DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS OF THE CONSTITUTIONAL OF THE STATE OF ILLINOIS, CO:.,ENED AT THE CITY OF SPRINGFIELD, TUESDAY, DECEMBER 13, 1869. ELY, BURNIIAM & BARTLETT, OFFICIAL STENOGRAPHERS. Y OLUM E II. Th SPRINGFIELD: E. L. MERRITT & BROTHEER, PRINTERS TO THE CONVENTION. 1870. I i I-fi'7 -i< *, I #,,, o, - O-; CONVENTION i I .1 ! i I 1 I I II I p I - I lb I As.! II. 0 DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. Mr. BENJAMIN. Mr. President: I take a rest, for it is plainly, if not pain desire to ask leave of absence for the fully, apparent to every member of the gentleman from Brown [Mr. Vandeven- Convention that the mental energies of the ter]. strongest minds of the Convention have Leave was granted nern. con. lost much of their elasticity. Mr. SHARP. Mr. President: I de There are none of the members of this sire to ask leave of absence for the gen- Convention who, within the last eight or tieman from Marion [Mr. Bryan]. ten days, have shown that vigor and ac Leave was granted nerm. con. tivity of intellect in debate that charac w Mr. CODY. Mr. President: I desire terized the Convention in the earlier days to ask leave of absence for the gentle- of the session. man from Morgan [Mr. Atkins], from I do not wish to argue the question; whom I have received a telegraphic dis- indeed, I do not suppose I am entitled to patch that he is detained from the Con- do so; but I am sure of one thing-that vention by illness. we will gain much in the fullness of at Leave was granted nem. con. tendance of the Convention hereafter, and FEMALE SUFFRAGE. will be in a better condition to do the Mr. HAINES, of Lake, presented a work before us, after a rest of three or petition signed by Samuel Willard and four weeks. thirty other citizens of Illin ois praying Mr. TURNER. I wish to inquire of thirty other citizens of Illinois,uffrage be grayinted to the gentleman if it would not be better shold e fomnin totweveyeas, nd hethat the right of suffrage be granted to cocojueethe women of the State. to fix the day of adjournment on Thurs The petition was laid upon the table to day or Friday of the same week, instead be considered at the same time with the of Wednesday, and extend it a little Ion report of the Committee on the Right of ger-say till the first of May. Isaage G. Wilson, Mr. WASHBURN. I amn perfectly will wtaicniibSuffrage. ming, so far asthetimeoftheadjournment ao eoCOOK COUNTY JUDICIARY —AGAIN. is concerned, that it should be extended Mr. HAYES. Mr. President: As one to Thursday; but so far as extending the of the petitions in regard to the Cook time of meeting till the first of May, I county judiciary, has been referred to the have become perfectly satisfied by con Commaittee of the Whole, I move that the ference with members, that an adjourn Judiciary Committee be discharged from ment for that length of time cannot get all consideration of the petitions on the the vote of the Convention. same subject, that have been referred to Mr. CUMMINGS. Mr. President: I them, and that they be likewise referred move the previous question upon the to the Counmmittee of the Whole. adoption of the resolution. The motion was agreed to. Mr. Cary. Mr. President: Is an amend LEAVE OF ABSENCE. ment still in order? e Mr. KING. Mr. President: I ask The PRESIDENT. Amendments are leave of absence for the gentleman from not in order. - Greene [Mr. English] for an indefinite Mr. CARY. I merely say, then, that opd o hsetime. it is a perfect outrage to move the pre Leave was granted nem. con vious question. time. ~~~~~~~~vious question. ove was it e ed t t cio,. The PRESIDENT. The question is CmNRESOLUTIONS FOR ADOPTION. upon the motion of the gentleman from The PRESIDENT. Resolutions and Fulton [Mr. Cummings], that the main propositions for reference or adoption are question be now put. n order. A division was ordered. RECESS. The Convention divided, when, there Mr. WASHBURN. Mr. President I being twenty-six in the affirmative and rhave a resolution to offer. twenty-four in the negative, the motion The Secretary read the resolution offer- for the previous question was agree- to, ed by Mr. Washburn, as follows: and the main question ordered. The PRESIDENT. The question is -Resolved, That when this Convention shall upon the adoption of the resolution of adjourn on Wednesday, the sixteenth instant, hsrpre,rit adjourn to meet again on Tuesday, April the gentleman from Williamson [Mr. twelve, 1870, at ten o'clock A. M.; and that no Washburn]. member, officer or employee of this Conven- Mr. WENDLING. I call for the yeas tion shall receive any pay or allowance for, and nays. Cor during, said time of adjournment. X - ~~~~~~~The seas and nays were ordered. Mr. WASHBURN. Mr. President: The Secretary proceeded to call the roll. Through all the many attempts that have Mr. HAY (when his name wascalled) been made by this Convention to take a said: Mr. President: I have been cxrecess, I have persistently voted in the cused heretofore from voting on those entdnegative,forIhadhopeduntlverylately, questions, and I ask the same privilege that this Convention would be able to finish now. its labors and adjourn sine die by the fif- Leave was granted nem. con. te enth or twentieth of this month. But Mr. WENDLING (when his name was the progress that we have made in busi- called) said: Mr. President: I see by ness has very clearly demonstrated that the tally I have made that the vote is we are yet far from the end of our labor, going in the affirmative. I vote "Aye," that there will beat least six weeks, probt b - in order that I may move a reconsideraably two months of work to be aeom- tion of the question when we have a full pished by the Convention before our Convention, for I am opposed to this adbusiness can be completed. jourume t. In view of that fact, in view of the The result was then announced-yeas sickness of so many members of the Con- 32 nays 24-as follows: vention, in view of the declining health' of many more of the members, in view of YEAS. the constant and long continued and per- Abbott, Eidredge, Parker, sistent application of the members,I have Ander, Fox, Perley, come to the conclusion that it will be no Bowman, Goodell, Sherrill loss to us, individually, or to the State, to Buxton, Haines of CookSutherland, The motion was agreed to. COOK COUNTY JUDICIARY. Mr. CAMERON. Mr. President: I have been requested to present to the Convention a memorial, signed by a large number of gentlemen somewhat promi nent at the Chicago bar, on the subject of organizing the courts of Cook county. I w ill r ead it: To the Itonorable, the Convention to amend, etc., the Constitution of the State of Illinois: The undersigned, members of the bar of Cook county, respectfully represent into your Honorable body that in their opinion the plan for courts in said county, reported by your Judiciary Committee should be so amend ed as to make the same more nearly uniform with the system throughout the State, by providing for but one court of general juris diction in said county, which court should consist of at least nine judges, whose term of office, in the judgment of your petitioners, should be from nine to twelve years, and the choice of judges ought in some way be re leased as far as possible, from political in fluences. Jesse O. Norton, J. R. Doolittle, Isaac G. Wilson, with a firm conviction that judges should be appointed during good behavior. H. O. McDoud, Josiah Leaming, John P. Wilson, J. W. Wauhop, John H. Peck, A. T. Ewing, C. W. Colehour, Geo W. Smith, J. L. Marsh, H. B. Towslee, S. Ashton, Geo. F. Bates, Wm. J. Tewkesbury, Geo. F. Harding, F.H. Winston, Walter B. Scates, Francis A. Riddle, E. S. Isham, T. M. Hoyne, L. L. Bond, Charles C. Bonney, and for an appointive judiciary and the en largement of the judiciary power. I ask that the memorial be referred to the Committee of the Whole, to be considered in connection with the substitute now pending on this subject. Mr. ANTHONY. Mr. President: I move that it be referred to the Judiciary Committee, the same as the other peti tions have been. I notice that Mr. Wilson, whose name is appended to that petition is in favor -of the appointment of judges during gotd behavior, and there are one or, two others who append quali. fications to their signatures. Mr. CAMVERON. Mr. President: There is an evident propriety in referringthis memorial to the Committee of the Whole. The Judiciary Committee has reported, and its report is now under consideration by the Committee of the Whole. It is well known, that sending this communication to the Judiciary. Committee puts it out of the way altogether. The opinions of gentlemen of high standing at the Chicago bar are certainly entitled to courteous consideration, and I hope that the motion to refer to the Judiciary Committee, for the purpose of strangling discussion, will not prevail. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the motion of the gentleman from Cook [Mr. Anthony] to refer the memorial to the Judiciary Committee. Thle motion was not agreed to. The motion of Mr. Cameron to refer to the Committee of the Whole was agreed to. LEAVE OF ABSENCE. Mr. PEIRCE. Mr. President: I ask leave of absence for the gentleman fromi Livingston [Mr. Pillsbury] for an indefinite period, on account of his detention at home by severe illness. Leave was granted Beon. G-:~ 270 10,77 MxRoa 9, 1870. 1A7 COSIUTOA COW-I~WDEDY CORPORAL PUNISHMENT IN SCHOOLS. Mr. SNYDER asked, and by unanimous consent obtained, leave to offer the following resolution, which was read by the Secretary, and referred to the Committee on Education: AResolved, That corporal punishment in the public schools of the State be abolished, and forever prohibited. JUDICIAL DEPARTMENT. The PRESIDENT. The hour has arrived for the Contention to resolve itself into Committee of the Whole, to consider the judiciary article. So the Convention, as in Committee of the Whole (Mr. Bowman in the chair), resumed the consideration of the report of the Judiciary Committee. COUNTY COURTS. The CHAIRMAN. The question is on the substitute of the gentleman from McHenry [Mr. Church] to the eighteenth section. The Clerk read section eighteen, as amended by Mr. Fuller, as follows: SEC. 18. There shall be elected, in and for each county, by the electors thereof, one judge and one clerk of the county court, i hose terms of office shall be four years. County courts shall be courts of record, and shall have original jurisdiction in all matters of probate; settlement of estates of dec rased persons; appointments of guardians and conservators, and settlements of their accounts; in all matters relating to apprentices; and in P)roceedings for the collection of taxes and assessments, but no other original jurisdiction relating to real estate. In all counties that may adopt the same by a majority of all the votes cast at any general election, the said county court shall also have original jurisdiction in actions of debt, assumpsit, trover, replevin and trespass, either to person or perSonal property, where the amount claimed or value of the property in controversy does not exceed five hundred dollars; and of crimes and misdemeanors where the punishmaent shall not be capital, or confinement in the penitentiary. The Clerk read the substitute offered by Mr. Church, as follows: SEC. 18. There shall be in each county a court, to be called a county court, the jurisdiction of which shall extend to all probate and such other jurisdiction as the General Assembly may confer in civil cases, and such criminal jurisdiction as may be prescribed by law, when the punishment is not capital, or confinement in the penitentiary; and which jurisdiction, and the practice in said county courts, shall be uniform throughout the State, except as herein provided. Mr. SEDGWICK. Mr. Chairman: I offer an amendment to the section as amended by the gentleman from Stark [Mr. Fuller]. I offer it as a further amendment. The Cierk read the amendment, offered by Mr. Sedgwick, as follows: County courts that now have an extended jurisdiction shall continue to exercise the same jurisdiction they now have, in addition to the jurisdiction conferred by this section, until otherwise provided by law. Mr. SEDGWICK. MKr. Chairman: The object of this amendment is to save the county courts that now have extended jurisdiction concurrent with the circuit courts. I think there would be no particular objection to this amendment. It will be recollected that under the head of "courts of common pleas" there was a similar amendment adopted to save those courts where they now exist in cities. It seems to me it will only be just and proper to have such a clause inserted in this section. Mr. CHURCH. Mr. Chairman: I was going to ask the gentleman from DeKalb Haines of LakeTurner, Hanna, Underwood, Hayes, Washburn, King, Wendling, McDowell, Wheaton. Wilson-32. NAYS. Anthony, Harwood, Snyder, Benjamin, McCoy, Springer, Bromwell, Merriam, Tincher, Browning, Moore, Truesdale, Cary, Parks, Wagner, Coolbaugh, Peirce, Wait, Goodhue, Sedgwick, Wall, Hart, Sharp, Wells-24. ABSENT, OR NOT VOTING. Allen of Alex.English, Poage, Allen of C'fd. Gamble, Robinson, Atkins, Hankins, Ross, Bayne, Hay, Scholfield, Billings, Hildrup, Skiliner, Brown, Kirkpatrick, Vandeventer, Bryan, Medill, Whiting, Church, Neece, Wright, Ellis, Pillsbury, Mr. President-28. Emmerson, So the resolution was agreed to. Mr. TURNER. Mr. President: I move a reconsidertion of the vote, and move to lay that motion on the table. ~ Mr. COOLBAUGH. Mr. President: I would liketo know if, when that motion is carried, and is laid on the table, the matter is ended beyond recall? The PRESIDENT. The motion to reconsider may be taken from the table at any time when it is reached in the order of business, usually from ten minutes after ten o'clock to half past ten o'clock. It can be taken up to-morrow, or at any future time. In congress, the motion to reconsider, when laid on the table, is practically never reached during the session; but in this Convention, under the rules, it can be reached during the morning hour. Mr. COOLBAUGH. So that it is competent to take this up to morrow morning from the table. Mr. BROWNING. I think it is better to let the motion stand until we get through with the judiciary article, when, perhaps, there may be a different feeling in the Convention. Mr. HAYES. Mr. President: Cannot 'the object of the gentleman be accomplished by withdrawing_'the motion to lay on the table, and voting down the direct motion to reconsiders-will not that close the matter? The PRESIDENT. That would dispose of it. Mr. BUXTON. Mr. President: I with draw the motion to lay on the table. Mr. CUMMINGS. I renew it. Mr. COOLBAUGH. Mr. President: Is it not competent ibr a majority of the Convention, any time between this and the seventeenth, to rescind that resolu tion? The PRESIDENT. It is competent. The question is on the motion to lay the motion to reconsider on the table. The motion was nlot agreed to.. The PRESIDENTF. The question is on the motion to reconsider. The yeas and nays were ordered. Mr. TURNER. I withdraw the motion to reconsider. Mr. C&ARY. I renew it. The PRESIDENT. Did the gentleman vote with the majority? Mr. CARY. I did not, sir. The PRESIDENT. Then the motion cannot be entertained. The hour has arrived for the consideration of the judiciary article. [Mr. Sedgwick] a question: Whether it would not be better to rely udon the schedule which can provide that the jurisdiction of all the courts in the State shall remain the same as it now is, until changed by law. Sir. SEDGWICK. I would simply say in reply that that suggestion was made in regard to courts of common pleas now existinig in cities; and the Convention finally adopted a provision saving these courts in the section; therefore, I supposed that the Convention would act with uniformity, and save these courts in this section. Mr. BUXTON. Mr. Chairman: I would like to ask the gentleman whether section twenty-two does not provide for saving these courts. It reads: SEC. 22. The judges and clerks of county courts, in office at the adoption of this Constitution, shall hold their offices until the expiration of their respective terms; and the county courts now in existence, shall have the same power and jurisdiction they now possess, until the judges and clerks of county courts, provided for by this Constitution, shall be elected and qualified. Mr. SEDGWICK. No, sir, it saves them only until the expiration of the term for which the judges and clerks were elected. Mr. HAINES, of Lake. Mr. Chairman: If I am in order, I move the following amendment. The Clerk readithe amendmenl, offered by Mr. Haires, of Lake, as follows: Strike out from "have" in the ninth line, to "'dollars" in the twelfth line, and insert the following: "Such original jurisdiction in civil cases as may beprovided by law, where the amount in controversy shall not exceed five hundred dollars." CONSTITUTIONAL CON'VENTION WF.DNF,SDAY, 1-07,8 Cameron, Cody, Craig, Cross, Cummings, Dement, Mr. HAY. Mr. Chairman: I would rise to an inquiry whether the question is upon the amendment of the gentleman ftom Stark [Mr. Fuller] or the substitute of the gentleman from McHenry [Mr. Church]. The CHAIRMAN. the Chair is of the opinion that the question before the committee is the substitute of the gentleman from McHenry [Mr. Church], and that all these amendments are out of order. Mr. HAINES, of Lake. Mr. Chairman: I understand section eighteen is the required section. Mr. BUXTON. It is the orioinal seetion as amended. Mr. SEDGWICK. Mr. Chairman: The reason I insist upon my motion is that it lia-i been the ruling Of the Chair that the original section may be perfected by its friends, before the vote is taken upon a substitutes. The CHAIRMAN. If that has been the ruling of the Chair, it,will be adhered to. .Air. SEDGWICK. The amendment of the gentleman from Lake, [Mr. I-laines] is not in order, unless offered f s an amend,.nent to m- endment. .y am Mr. ELDREDGE. Mr. Chairman: Do I understand that the motion of the gentleman from DeKalb [.,Nlr. Sedgwick] is in order? The CHATRNIAN. No, sir. Mr. EI,DREDGE. I appreciate, Mr. Chairman, the importance of preserving the special jurisdiction which has heretofore been conferred upon the county courts of some cl,)unties, in additioa to the general jurisdiction which these courts possess throughout the State. And 0 MA~cH 9,1570 DEBTES AXDPROGEEDIGS. 107 The CHAIRMAN. That was adopted. Mr. BROWNING. I had overlooked the fact that the amendment of the gen tleman from Stark [Mr. Fuller] had been adopted, for I was very much occupied on yesterday. It is not now exactly in the form in which the friends of the amendment desire to have it. I wish, if in order, to move an amendment to it. The CHAIRMAN. An amendment is pending now. Mr. BROWNING. Then, if my amend ment is not in order, I will say a word in regard to the amendment of the gentle. man from DeKalb [Mr. Sedgwick], and the amendment of the gentleman from LaSalle [Mr. Eldridge]. They are in tended to perpetuate courts of peculiar jurisdiction. As I have had occasion to remark, sev eral times before, the greatest evil exist ing that made it necessary to call a Con vention to form a new Constitution, was one that grew out of special legislation, in respect to matters of a general nature, and more especially in reference to the courts. The circuit courts had no uniformity of jurisdiction. A gentleman in one county did not know the jurisdiction or practice of the circuit court in the ad joining county. The county courts had no uniformity of jurisdiction. They were totally diaerent tribunals in different counties. To cure these evils, more than anything else, this Convention was called. Now, instead of curing them, it is pro posed to perpetuate them, and wherever there is a court of peculiar organization and jurisdiction, it is proposed to put in a special provision to continue that court. Then we will go from here in a worse con dition than we came. Before we came, the General Assembly had power to intro duce and coerce uniformity of jurisdic tion and practice in courts of the same class or grade. But when we provide in the Constitution for perpetuating these varied jurisdictions and practices, we take away the power of the General Assembly, and leave no remedy at all. I wish now to state the fact, and if it is the wish of the Convention to create courts of the same class and grade, all over the State, with different jurisdictions and different systems of practice, and dif ferent classes of cases to be adjudicated, let them do it in direct, emphatic, and express terms. Let there be no mistake or misunderstanding about it. If, on the other hand, Mr. Chairman, it is our purpose to secure uniformity of jurisdiction and practice, let us say that. Let us act with entire frankness with each other, and if we do not intend to perpetuate these courts of peculiar jurisdiction, let us cut them up, root and branch. If we do intend to have these different jurisdictions all over the State, let us say in the most explicit terms in which we can say it, so that everybody may understand it. Mr. SEDGWICK. Mr. Chairman: I would lrke to ask the gentleman a ques tion. The other day the gentleman from r Kane [Mr. Wheaton] offered a similar proposition, to save the courts of common pleas in this State. I would ask the gentle man if he did not vote lr that proposition? - Mr. BROWNING. That was to save the courts of common pleas, Mr. Chairman, only until this system would go into operation, because we have no such sys temn of courts in the State, and the Legisature under the Constitution will have I confess I am very anxious to preserve that jurisdiction, until the counties which enjoy it shall express a desire for a change. I should have no objection to that being done in the schedule, as suggested by the gentleman from McHenry [Mr. Church], but certainly it cannot bene one under the twenty-second section as proposed by the gentleman from Clinton [Mr. Buxton]. I wish to suggest to my friend from DeKalb, [Mr. Sedgwick] whether the prop osition Which I have here, and which I was about to submit, or at least at the proper time when it will be in order, would not effect that object? It is this: The several existing county courts, with their present organization and jurisdiction shall continue in such counties severally as now existing therein, until otherwise provided by law.x . Mr. SEDGWICK. Mr. Chairman: That is the same as my amendment, is it not? Mr. ELDREDGE. Not precisely. Mr. Chairman: I would like to hear the amend ment of the gentleman from DeKalb [Mr. Sedgwick.] The Clerk read the amendment offered by Mr. Sedgwick, as follows: County courts that now have an extended jurisdiction shall continue the exercise of the same jurisdiction they now have, in addition to the jurisdiction conferred bv this section, until otherwise provided by law. Mr. ELDREDGE. The amendment of the gentleman from DeKalb [Mr. Sedog, wick] is substantially like the one pro posed by me, but still I prefer a more specific preservation of jurisdiction in the counties severally. Mr. WALL. Mr. Chairman: I would like to call the attention of both gentle men to section twenty-two, which pro vides as follows: SEC. 22. The judges and clerks of county courts, in office at the adoption of this Con stitution, shall hold their offices until the ex piration of their respective terms; and the county courts now in existence shall have the same power and. jurisdiction they now pos sess, until the judges and clerks of county courts, provided for by this Constitution, shall be elected and qualified. Mr. SEDGWICK. Mr. Chairman: That twenty-second section only provides until the present officers go out of office. Mr. ELDREDGE. -And, Mr. Chair man, the effect of that section will be that the powers of existing county courts will depend entirely upon the jurisdiction authorized to be conferred by the Constitution. If that jurisdiction should bJe below the standard of' what the counties now enjoying the extended jurisdiction possess, such countie:s would lapse under the general rule prescribed for all county courts hereafter established, which, in my judgment, would be unjust, without any good reason to justify it, and needlessly array hostility against the Constitution. Mr. SHERRI LL. Mr. Chairman: I would suggest to amend the eighteenth section, fourth linc — That when a man dies and leaves an estate pefectly solvent, having made his will and appointed his own executors, -that should be final and not subject his estate to go through the furms of a probate court for final settlement, at an expense of a large share of the property, in costs and fees, of a useless trial by a probate court. M ~r. BROWNDING. Mr. Chairman: The amendment offered on yesterday by the geatlem:~n from Stark [Mr. Fuller], was an amendment to the original section, and that is still pending and takes proco, alencefe, DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1079 MAI?.CH 9) 1870. no power to continue them, unless they make a general,;ystem of courts of com mon pleas as a substitute for COUD ty courts. Mr. SEDGWICK. I wish to sav to the gentleman, Mr. Chairman, that this prop osition is only to extend until otherwise provided bv law. Mr. BROWNING. It is declared, how ever, Mr. Chairman, that they shall con tinue with their present jurisdiction and organization until new judges and new clerks shall be elected under the provis ions of this Constitution. But that does not satisfy gentlemen. They avow honestlv and fradk'y, and I thank them for it-there is no diqguise ab,,ut it-they avow their dissatisfaction with section twedty-two, because it con tinues certain courts only until this Con stitution goes into operation, when their purpose, as they frankly announce, is to perpetuate them and continue them after the Constitution goes into operation, as well as during tlie interval between the adoption of the Constitution and the elections under it. Now, sir, I am opposed to all these local courts with special jurisdiction, and in favor of such only as are in harmony with a system pervading the entire State, carrvid,g its benedts to every community alik;, and deiny-.Dg exclu,3ive privileges to any I think it i'better, Mr. Chairman, Si that I should be equallv frank and candid with the gedtlemen wLo advocate it, and say right out what I meaia-that I am opposed to it. And yet, if it is the wish of the Convention to adopt such a system, a syste m of various jurisdiction in courts of the same class, 1, of course, as in duty bound, will submit to it-I will submit cheerfully. I trust it will not be the will of the Convention; but if it is, when they have declared their will and purpose to do it, I am stopped from further resista,nce, and will cease further resistance; but as long as it is an open question, I beg to express, earnestly, my protest against perpetuating in the Constitution the very evils that we were sent here to cure. Mr. HAINES, of Lake. Mr. Chairman: I think myself tbeie is much force in the argument of the gentleman from Adams [Mr. Browning], for if we were sent here for auythipg, we were for',he purpose of introducing some uniformity of practice in our courts. I think there should be CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION know what the the law is forty miles from accomplish the whole thing if we are home. He does not know how to govern going to establish anything of the kind. himself. He does not know when his Let us leave it in the hands of the people right or property or person are in j eopar- to increase the jurisdiction in the manner dy. A man who lives in my county has suggested by the gentleman from Clinton no idea what he can do or be made to do [Mr. Buxton]. in Adams county, or Saline, unless he ex- Mr. GOODHUE. Mr. Chairman I plore, all the local statutes of the State appreciate, fully, I believe, the objects of for the last fifteen years. He does not the Judiciary Committee in reporting know whether they practice common law this eighteenth section. I appreciate the or a code there. He does not know embarrassments against which they prowhether the c6urt has plenary powers, or posed to provide. But at the same time whether it is a court of limited jurisdic- it is perfectly manifest, after the discustion. He does not know whether he can sion to which we have listened, that a go there and defend on the papers, or system of county courts, applicable to must actually go to trial. every part of the State, is absolutely im People have as much right to know the possible. laws in the furthest counties of the State It might be possible for this Convention as they have in their own counties, and I to force such a system upon this State do protest against, and I think the people against the wishes and inclinations of the are heartily sick of, a set of courts, of all people, but it would be unwise. It is manner of jurisdiction, and of all manner manifest that there are a large number of of proceedings, gotten up with every va- small counties seriously opposed to this riety of form. This multiform court system enlarged jurisdiction, which is provided is becoming a public nuisance, and ought for in section eighteen. It is manifest that not to be perpetuated; and if there is a it would be distasteful to the people. It necessity for providing for winding them is evident that it would array hostility up, as I have no doubt there is, let the against the Constitution in various secschedule make the provision. tions of the State. It does seem to me Mr. KING. Mr. Chairman: Thegen- that enough has been elicited during the tleman from Coles [Mr. Bromwell] seems discussion upon this section, as originally to think we ought to make this law so reported, to satisfy us that it would,be that the courts would be uniform through- unwise to attempt the adoption of any out the State. That was my impression such section. We see that there is no disat first, and that was why I was for the position to adopt it. Amendments have section as reported by the committee. I been proposed, and have been carried was for it sincerely and earnestly, but a through the committee; and, while I am majority of the committee have decided in favor of going as far as possible in supthat this section should not become a part port of the Judiciary Committee, and to of the Constitution. Of course, I ac- secure uniformity of jurisdiction in all quiesced in that. these county courts, I am opposed to go I have ascertained this theory in the ing as far as some gentlemen are desirous discussion of this question: that it is im- of going. pos,ible for us here, with our diversified It is perfectly plain that there is to be interests, to get what the gentleman from an enforced jurisdiction throughout the Coles [Mr. Bromwell] contends for-a entire State. In other words, it is maniuniform system throughout the State, in fest that we need county courts in every our judiciary. I al satisfied we cannot county in the State, and that some jurisdo it. I was for it myself. I am for it diction may be enforced. It is plain that yet, if I can get it, but I am satis- we can adopt unanimously, or with subfled from the discussion yesterday, that stantial unanimity among the members of we cannot get it. Therefore, I am will- the Convention, a clause that will operate ing to take the reported section, as amend- to enforce a certain system upon every ed by the gentleman from Clinton [Mr. county in this State, but that system must Buxton], in preference to the substitute of be that which is well adapted to the the gentleman from McHenry [Mr. smaller counties, which they will receive, Church], for this simple reason, that and with wh:ch they will be satisfied. though they both go to the same point in So far, all is plain sailing. one respect, the amendment offered by the The next question is, how far is the gentleman from Clinton [Mr. Buxton], jurisdiction, and, in what manner is the proposes to increase the jurisdiction by a jurisdiction of county courts to be exvote of the people in counties. I prefer tended in other counties? There is anthat on that ground. This section now other matter that must be kept, in my reads so that there is no additional juris- judgment, constantly in view, and that is diction conferred upon the county judge that while it would be wrong to enforce a in any county in the State of Illinois, un- system on the smaller counties of this less a majority of the people of that State that would be distasteful to them, it county so vote. That is certainly as fair would be equally unjust and equally un a proposition as thes gentlemen from wise to enforce on any county —no matter southern Illinois can ask, because they how large its population, and no matter have not got a sufficient amount of busi- what its business-a system that would be ness down there to authorize this court. as distasteful to them as to a smaller Of course their people will not ask it. I county. prefer trusting the people to vote upon The substitute of the gentleman from this when they want jurisdiction, in McHenry [Mr. Church] comes nearer to preference to going to the legislative my view of the necessities of this case, bodies and getting a legislative enactment than any other that has been presented. passed through. It provides, in the first place, fbr a gen I hope that the section, as it now stands eral system throughout the State, for a reported by the committee, with the general system recognized by the Consti amendment of the gentleman from Clin- tution, applicable to every county ton [Mr. Buxton], will be voted upon by throughout the State, which will be unan the friends of this measure who are in imously accepted by all the counties, giv favor of this kind of a c9urt. Let us ing them substantially the jurisdictiono 1080 WED1ESDAY, which they, to-day, possess; so that that part of the substitute can meet but little opposition here or among the people. The nineteenth and following section goes a step further, and provides for an extended jurisdiction. It provides for a jurisdiction extended over that conferred in the eighteenth section. It provides that there shall be uniformity throughout counties, where jurisdiction may be enlarged, as far as possible; uniformity in jurisdiction; uniformity in the rules and practice of such courts; and this is wise. It provides, which, in my judgment, must be kept constantly in view by members of this committee, against forcing any system, any enlarged jurisdiction, upon any county, when, from the condition of their courts, the necessities of the case, and the wishes of the people, this extended jurisdiction is not necessary or desired. I know it has been objected that it is unwise to submit these matters constantly to the people. I would like to avoid the necessity of doing this, if possible, but we must have some check, we must have some mode by which we can provide against the enforcement upon us of a court that we do not need, and that is distasteful to us. Another difficulty arises in my mind from this fact (and upon this point we have not yet voted) that another section provides fbr courts of common pleas, It provides that these courts may be established ia any county or any number of counties. It provides that whenever this court is constituted it shall take the place of our county court. Now, the difficulty is in harmonizing these matters. We do not know how difficult it may be for us to procure these courts of common pleas. We will be called upon to appeal to the Legislature for their creation, and if they are established, they will set aside our county courts. If we fail in securing the courts of common pleas, then it will become a matter of necessity for us to retain our county courts with enlarged jurisdiction. Now, I insist that we must keep constantly in view of these facts; that it wilt not do to enforce upon the people of these counties courts they do not want. The spirit of "harmony" must not override everything else. It must not override the wishes of the people in localities where it is pro posed to establish these courts. I am in favor of uniformity so far as it can be secured. I am in favor of securing in all these counties, some checks. I am in f~avor of leaving the people of the counties. either by a direct vote on the question, or by a decision of the board of supervisors, to determine as to whether they shall have this enlarged jurisdiction or not. Mr. SPRINGER. Mr. Chairman: I am in favor of a uniform system of county courts in the State. I consider it as much a necessity as to have a uniform syrstem of circuit courts. The wants of the people of the larger counties cannot be fully met by the circuit courts as they are organized. They re quire mnore speedy remedies for grievr ances, and more available means for the collection of delets than the circuit courts extend to them, and unless they have something of this kind, they will often suffer unavoidable injustice. I am for that reason exceedingly anxious that we should have county courts of uniform and extended jurisdiction in all the counties of the State. 4, MAROH 9, 1870. DEBATES AD PROCEEDIXGS. 1081 SEc. 19. The General Assemblv may pro- courts cannot have jurisdiction in criminal vide by law for extending the jurisdiction of cases where the liberty of a person is incounty courts of counties of not less thanr volved. — thousand population, to the full extent vore of jurisdiction permitted by the section pro- [Here the hammer fell.] viding for county courts-the jurisdiction and Mr. PEIRCE. Mr. Chairman: I would practice in which county courts of extended like to say a few words in reference to jurisdiction shall be uniform in all such last mentioned counties; but the provisions of the gentleman from this section shall not be in force in any county DeKalb [Mr. Sedgwick], and also the until a majority of the electors of such coun- amendment of my friend from La Salle ty shall, at a general election, vote in favor of [Mr. Eldredge.] t s l c ii such extended jurisdiction. The purpose of those amendments, as Adopt this substitute, and the county I understand them, is to save the existing courts will be probate courts, and nothing jurisdiction of the county courts. It else. The substitute forthe nineteenth sec- must be remembered, that in some coulntion confers no other jurisdiction ex- ties the county courts now have an encept in probate business, and instead of larged jurisdiction, and while this proextending, or granting to the General vision of the judiciary article will serve Assembly power to extend the jurisdic- in some counties to extend it, will serve tion, it seems to me rather a repetition of in other counties to restrict the jurisdicthe other, or else an authorization of the tion of the county courts. General Assembly to create county courts Now, I admit that there is some force with probate jurisdiction, only. in the arguments which have been pre The only objection I have to the amend sented this morning in favor of uniformment proposed by the gentleman from ity of jurisdiction and practice in all the Stark [Mr. Fuller] is the proposed sub- county courts of the State. But, sir, I mission to the vote of the people. I think insist that it is too late now to present it is not necessary. I would prefer say- that argument, forcible as it may be, being that these courts shall be established cause by our action yesterday we have in all counties of, say, 40,000 or 50,000 decided that the enlarged jurisdiction r population; and to, in all counties under of the county courts shall not extend to that population, let it be submitted to a counties who do not desire it, and do not vote of the people. Then we would have express by a popular vote or by action one system of county courts, and not one of the board of supervisors that they system for one class of counties, and an- want it. Then, sir, if this principle of other system for another class. uniformity is to be encroached upon in The amendment of the gentleman from that regard, I ask why should we deny, Stark [LMr. Fuller] confers original juris- by any principle of consistency or prodiction upon county courts in all pro- priety, to those counties which now have ceedings for the collection of taxes and as- a jurisdiction beyond that conferred by sessments, but no other original jurisdic- this article, the power to continue that tion relating to real estate, and it provides jurisdiction?' There are a number of that these courts shall settle the estates counties in the State which now have n of deceased persons. I claim that the enlarged jurisdiction beyond that conright to sell the real estate of deceased ferred by thissection; in some instances, persons to pay debts is incident to the as in civil cases, to the extent of a thousettlement of estates These county sand dollars, and in many other particun. courts have exercised thispower for many lars beyond that which would be conyears. It has been found necessary to ferred by this article. This article then the speedy and just settlement of estates. would serve to abridge and restrict the This power will be cut off by this section. jurisdiction of the county courts in that I think the county courts should have ju- regard. risdiction to sell real estate to pay debts. Now, sir, this enlarged jurisdiction of It is said we do not have good judges the county court is very popular and saton the bench of the county courts. In isfactory in many of those counties. It my judgment, if the proposed system is is regarded as a simplifying and cheap. adopted, we will have quite as good pro- ening of the administration of justice. bateas circuit judges. I seeno good rea- Why then should we curtail the jurisson for depriving this court of such juris- diction of those courts now existing by diction in these cases when it has been this section, when it is not desired by exercised so many years by persons not the people, when at the same time we lawyers, in a manner satisfactory to the acknowledge the right of counties to depeople, and certainly to the interests of cide whether or not the new jurisdiction the estates settled. It has been done well proposed shall come into existence? I and cheaply. Why deprive them of this maintain, sir, that we are neither consistjurisdiction now, when there is no neces- ent nor just if we allow this freedom of sity for it; when it is probable that it choice to the counties of the State in re will be exercised to better advantage gard to the new jurisdiction, and at the than ever before, simply because it may same time refuse them the right to re happen that we will not always have tain the present enlarged jurisdiction if good judges of county courts? Mistakes they so desire. may be made in county courts, I admit; I hope the amendment offered by the so they may in the supreme court. I hope gentleman from DeKalb [Mr. Sedgwick] - that restriction will be stricken out, and! may be adopted. that these courts while they have the duty Mr. CUMMINGS. Mr. Chairman: I of settling these estates,may have such ju- propose that we stop talking, and vote. risdiction as will enable them to perfect We all have our minds made up. We and complete the settlemnent. If denied talked all day yesterday, and we have to county courts, we must await the slow been talking so far this morning. I think , process and the occasional terms of the it would be well to go to voting. circuit courts. I think the county courts Mr. HAINES, of L'ake. Mr. Chairman: should have full jurisdiction of real estate I am opposed to so much change, myself. to the extent necessary for the cheep, I wish, before the vote is taken, to make speedyand just settlement of estates. a suggestion upon the section pending, Another objection is that these county and the substitute which has bee~offered. sir. Mr. WALL. Mr. Chairman: The section provides, in line five, as follows: -which jurisdiction and the practice in said county courts shall be uniform throughout the State. Mr. SPRINGER. Mr. Chairman: I am opposed to that, because then the larger counties must depend upon the smaller, or we should have, under the substitute, a number of systems-a system for a particular population, and a different system for another population each class of courts having widely different jurisdiction and powers. In the substitute proposed to the nineteenth section it is provided that 271 DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1.ARCOr 9, 1870. 1081 1082 COSTIT UTIOAL CONYETION WEDNEsDAY, should confer. What necessities have arisen for this restriction of the General Assembly in regard to conferring jurisdiction upon county courts? The second section of the substitute offered by the gentleman from MlcHenry [Mr. Church] intends to leave it to the people of each county, to adopt this extended jurisdiction of county courts, if they think proper. This principle of leaving matters to the people is a growing principle in this government. After the General Assembly have passed a general law upon this subject, the proposition then is that each county shall adopt the provisions of that general law, if they think proper-having nothing forced up- on them-not allowing this Convention, or the General Assembly, to force any thing upon them that they do not want. We are experiencing from day to day the necessity, convenience and the justice of leaving something to the people-because this is a government of the people. It seems to me, if anything is proper, it is for us to follow the Constitution as it now is as far as we can, unless there is some necessity for a change. There is a necessity for a change in regard to uniformity in these courts. There is no necessity of continuing this extended jurisdiction as it now is, in some counties, leaving it out in others-leaving limited jurisdiction in some counties and general jurisdiction in others. There is no necessity for this, and that provision of the law ought to be repealed. Mr. UNDERWOOD. Mr. Chairman: I approve of the principle of adopting uniformity as far as possible, but we have found this Convention utterly impracticable in several things. We started with the idea that we would turn nobody out of office; yet yesterday we concluded that we would turn the circuit judges o. er to the Legislature to be tomahawked before their terms expire, if they think proper. We started with the idea that we would have unif,rmity in our courts which is a consummation devoutly to be wished; yet on the first day of the discussion of the judiciary article we concluded to insert a provision that special city courts, the abomination of all abominations, without uniformity, all over the State, should be preserved in their existence, until otherwise provided by law. Now, there is another class of courts not a bit more ob noxious than these, and it is proposed by my friend on the left, that they shall also be continued until otherwise provided by law. If we are to adopt the principle of allowing the city courts of extraordinary jurisdiction to continue until otherwise provided, so let it be with the county courts. Let us turn them all over to the Legislature to be tomahawked whenever it is proper. fNow, that these courts ought to be uniform as far as possible, all agree. But this Committee of the Whole undertakes to crucify them at once and thereby array a hostility against the Constitution all over the State. It is cheaper to accept a unform system for the future, and cheaper to turn existing city and county courts over to the Legislature, to secure hereafter as much of uniformity of organization and jurisdiction as practicable in such courts. It is hardly proper in a Constitution to be so radical as to tear up root and branch, existing officers and courts all over the country. That is being a little too radical. It is much better to let the s I t t I i t t t i i i i CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION W EDNESDAY, 1082 old system die out quietly, be buried in the past, and let a new system be erected upon its ashes. If we adopt this new system, prescribing some new rules for city and county courts, and then leave the Legislature to wipe out the old, and bring the special city and county courts within their jurisdiction as soon as possible, I conclude we will get along as harmoniously as in any other way. Now, I come to these two propositions, the main proposition of my friend from Stark [Mr. Fuller], and that of the gentleman from IcHenry [Mr. Church]. The proposition of the committee as amended is clear, and it will be uniform all over the State in all counties where a majority of the people show a desire to have those courts. Those counties that do not adopt it will have a uniform system inferior to that. Why, sir, that is not strange! Counties have different systems. Some have a township organization, some a county organization. In our cities there will probably be several classes of courts. Tile best we can do under existing circumstances is to have such classes of courts as meet the wants of the people, and not force them to an arbitrary system of courts which we may establish and endeavor to torture the body politic to meet this measure which we are going to enforce upen the people. We must yield somewhat to the wants of the people, (that is the genius and spirit of our institutions), and at the same time have such uniformity as is practicable in the State. The system proposed by the gentleman from Stark [Mr. Fuller] gives uniformity in classes in county courts that have this higher jurisdiction, and uniformity in those that have the lower jurisdiction. In the mean time we leave the old courts in the counties until the Legislature wipe them out, and require them to adopt this new system. Many of the counties have already city and county courts with juris. diction almost coextensive with the circuit courts. Some have applied to the Legislature and had these courts abolished. I presume many of the others will do the saime thing; but, if we leave it to the Legislature, it will be in the power of that body to repee,l these courts, if they see proper, although the amendment of the gentleman from DeKalb [Mr. Sedgwiek] is adopted. Now, we came to the other question. Suppose we adopt the substitute of the gentleman from McHenry [Mr. Church]; vwe are to have, under that, a unifo~rm systemn. The smaller counties in Illinois, under the sew representation, will be in the majority. The larger counlties, such as some fess of us represent in this body, will never get such a court as willafford us the requisite relief to enable the circuit courts within a reason able time to dispatch the business ~before them. The gentleman's pro,jec~t is the old project which we had under the Constitution of 1847, with this additional |merit, that it requires the courts to be uniformz. But the smaller counties will never conlsent to let my friend from Madison [Mr. Springer], and other larger counties in this State lhave an extended jurisdiction, because they will say we do not want so large a julrisdiction. We never can get that additional jurisdiction, whether our people in larger counties are w:illing or trot. The smaller counsties~wilt have their This matter of county courts is one of considerable importance to the people, and is one in which they have taken a good deal of interest. This plan of extending the jurisdiction of county courts to common law cases, or giving them common law jurisdiction, was first introduced in the county where I reside, under the Constitution as it now is, and the constitutionality of it was then questioned by the members of the General Assembly. I believe it has been recognized as being constitutional, but I think it is wrong. I think the principle of uniformity of jurisdiction throughout the State, in regard to these courts, is right, and the only system that ought to be adopted. I think that the substitute offered by the gentleman from McHenry [Mr. Church], for the original section, is the better principle, for two reasons. First, because it follows the Constitution as it is now. Second, because it is simple and equitable. I am opposed to changing the present Constitution where it is not necessary, and I find the people are opposed to the change. If there is anything we are to watch, we are to watch the sentiment of the people, and their fears in regard to the radical change we are making in the Constitution. The section as reported by the committee is full of special legislation; it is full of dangerous provisions. It recognizes a portion of the common law action, and excludes the other. Now, we were told but a while ago, while discussing one article in the Constitution, which provided for a great deal of special legislation, that we ought to leave something for the Legislature to do; that there was great danger in tying up the legislative power, because in the progress of events we might desire to make some changes. The original section as reported by the committee, prohibits these changes which the people may want to make, and I have to ask again, why not leave something for the Legislature to do, after this Convention is adjourned? The original section sets out in detail and specifies the jurisdiction which it is proposed to give to the county courts. Why not leave it to the General Assembly to confer jurisdiction to the county court, by general law, and some uniform system. I have looked for the Judiciary Committee to explain. Why give jurisdiction lay piecemeal? Does it not belong to the General Assembly to pass laws? Is it improper for them to confer jurisdiction upon this court? Suppose that new forms of action should arise, suppose cases should arise ill the progress of experience which we have omitted here? Then of course we have tied up the hands of the people-so that they cannot provide for the remedies they need. Whawt is the objection to the ConstituLtion, as it is, on this subject, which is the substance of the substitute offered by the gentleman from McHenry [Mr. Church]?1 cannot see any. By his substitute these county courts are to) have probate jurisd,.ction. That is technical, and we unlderstand what is mleanlt by probate julrisdiction. It provides that the General Assembly may, b~y some general law,textend the jurisdiction in their discretion. Is there anything wrong about that? It is eminently pro3per, it seems to me; but the or.:ginal section restricts the jurisdiction which the Genial zi.ssembly MoH 9, 1&70. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1083 knew something of the wants of the State and them. The Constitution will be submitted to them for their ratification or rejection, but every provision that looks to a change should not be submitted to the votes of the people in detail, to ascertain whether they will accept it. I think that section forty-four of the legislative article is vicious for the same reason. I have already expressed my views and I will not now repeat as to what I deem to be the wants of a great majority of the -counties in this State-of some local court to dispose of the smaller class of business, that the circuit courts may be relieved and their numbers and the expenses incurred be thereby diminished. Under this system we have got to make precisely the same number of circuit courts as if these county courts were not established, for the reason that it will be impossible to know in what counties the county courts with increased jurisdiction will be established, or, if established, how long they will continue in existence. And where a circuit court is established to meet the wants of the people without a county court, the people may vote for a county court, and put part of the business of the circuit court into that court, in which case the circuit court will still be found, having nothing to do. And we new er can meet the question precisely with such an uncertain system. I know it is said that small counties do not want this jurisdiction. I think, however, there are very few counties but what would want it, and if thec had but little business, it would be of little expense to them. I do not think it is right or reasonable that a system which a large majority of the counties require should be so sacrificed to the objections, to some extent, I think, imaginary, of the smaller counties. A good deal has been said of the claims of Cook county and Chicago, and they are supposed by some gentlemen to demand more in consequence of their immense population, and other influences that gather around such great cities. [Heie the hammer fell.] Mr. RICE. If I may be allowed to finish my sentence [" Go on," "go on"]. The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman may proceed unless objection is made. Mr. RICE. In my judgment, Mr. Chairnman, and my experience and observation in this Convention has not been inconsiderable, the smaller class of counties in the State have been quite as importunate in their demands as Cook county or Chicago, and their demands have been received with more favor than has been extended to the larger counties. Mr. CHURCH. Mr. Chairman: I did not desire to say anything further upon this question, and should not do so now, but from discovering that there is either a. misunderstanding with regard to the effect of some of these propositions, or else misrepresentations. I will read from the present Constitution: Sxc. 16. There shall be in each county a. court, to be called a county court. SEc. 17. One county judige'shall be elected by the qualified voters of each county, who shall hold his office for four years, and until his sucesasor is elected and qualified. SEC. 18. The jurisdiction of said court shall extend to all probate and such other jurisdiction as the General Assembly may confer in civil cases, and such criminal cases as X may be prescribed by law, where the punish DEBATES AND PROCEEDIN GS. 1083 MARiva 9, 1870. ment is by fine only, not exceeding lone hun dred dollars. Now, Mr. Chairman, I will ask mem bers of the committee to read that in our present Constitution, and then section eighteern in the substitute which I offered yesterday. They will find that they are precisely alike, with the exception that the General Assembly is allowed to go further into conferring jurisdiction in criminal cases. Now, sir, it has not been objected heretofore that the General Assembly has not conferred jurisdiction enough upon county courts under the power conferred by the present Constitution, and I do not believe that any member here could go to the extei t of complaining that the General Assembly has not conferred jurisdiction enough. On the contrary, sir, it will be found that the objection has been that they have conferred too much jurisdiction upon the county courts, in particular localities. Here I must dissent from what the gentleman from Grundy [Mr. Peirce] has said in regard to county courts of extended jurisdiction, having been favorites with the people. Such has not been the case. On the contrary, when special acts have been passed for that purpose they have generally been repealed, and when not repealed they have been suffered to die a natural death by the nearly unanimous consent of the people of the counties where those jurisdictions have been created. Under the present Constitution, the General Assembly has conferred jurisdiction in case.of conservators, adminiistrator's sales of real estate, and several other cases, which do not require a jury or the introduction of the technical rules of practice of the common law courts of general jurisdiction. These different jurisdictions were conferred on county courts uniformly throughout the State, and that without any objection. The substitute seeks to leave as it is, this uniform jurisdiction that has been conferred upon the county courts up to t'his time, and found to operate very beneficially-to leave with the General Assembly the same power of, from time to time, adding to the jurisdiction of the county courts all over the State, in such special cases as sball be required. But the complaint that has been made has been the wanlt of uniformity in the jurisdiction of county courts, that there has beenl, probably, twenty different jurisdictions created in as many counties, arnd generally dropped. There is no more obtjection to the creating of one extended jurisdictio3n in the courty courts, being uniform ill all such counties where that jurisdiction is applied, than there is to the crt ating of mnurici pal courts. It is not, as th~e gentleman from St. Clair [Mr. Underwood] stated, a preservit ig of~ a different kind of city courts as was done by the amendment adopted the other day, retaining the jurisdiction of city courts, as now, until otherwnise provided by law. It will be remembered by that gentlemnan, on reflection, that all these municipal courts must of necessity be of uniform j urisdiction. Each city court has the samne jurisdiction as the others. Mr. UNDERWOOD. The decision of the supreme court is that the jurisdiction ,f all thle city courts in the sameC city must be uniform. In differentt cities they:are different, all over the State. old fogy system. Under the old Constitution, owing to that pressure for additional courts to meet the wants of the people in many of the counties, they got these county courts with enlarged jurisdiction. The same pressure, sir, will irritate and annoy the Legislature continually, to have the jurisdiction raised or lowered, but the smaller counties, being in the majority, will always keep their chains upon the larger counties, and never allow us to have a court of higher jurisdictioD,which will meet our wants and the wishes of our people. I do not know, after all, that in this country we can ever reach a better solution of difficulties of this kind than to leave them directly to the source of all power-to the people themselves. Then, in the respective counties they will have uniform courts, with this additional jurisdiction wherever they want it. Where they do not want it, they will have the inferior courts of uniform jurisdiction, and that will satisfy them. This affords the best and most satisfactory solution of the controversy. Mlr. RICE. SMr. Chairman: I wish to offer a few reflections on the question under debate; and I shall commence by expressing my regret-however undenmocratic that may seem to some personsthat it was the judgment of the Committee of the Whole to amend the section upon county courtsso that this jurisdiction should be conferred whenever, upon the question being submitted to the people of any particular county, a majority should vote for it. While I believe that there is a class of questions that ought to be submitted to the people, and that their rights in that respect are sacred, I do not believe that all the details of a Constitution or of the acts of the Legislature should be submitted to the people of every particular locality to determine whether they would be governed by it or not, or whether they would conform to the sys. tem or not. Before I go further, I will say that the original section as reported with that amendment is, in my judgment., the best of what we haive left, and is very much preferable, in my judgment, to the substitute offered by the gentleman from 3tcHenry [)lr. Church] or any of the other propositions that are before the committee. It the principle is to apply that these courts shllal only be established in counties where a mnajo;rity of the people vote for this additiona jurisdiction, they may, to foxllow out that principle logically, whenever they get tired of the court, abolish it byv a vote of a majority, and the result would be that the people in no one part of the State should know the character of courts existing ill another part. I think it is a false systeml to estab lish courts so as to leave it to the votes of the several cotunties, as to whether they will or will not have this or that system of courts, for the very same reason that it would be unreasonable to establish a rule that there shall be in a given county two or more terms of the circui.t court, and that there shall be no more termns unless the people vote for it. The principle, however specious, is not sound I have not failed, so fear as I have had language to expres s my mzeaning, and I hlave no hesitation in putting myself upon the record upon that subject. When we were elected as delegqtes to this Conventio>n, the people supposed we CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION Mr. CHURCH. But all of that partic- nineteen as presented in the substitute. ular class must be uniform. What I ask But other gentlemen have objected that for county courts is that they shall have the population of fifty thousand is too uniform jurisdiction throughout the State, great, and some gentlemen have objected and that that jurisdiction shall not be de- that they would not desire to have their fined by the Constitution. It is unusual. counties subject to any act extending the If gentlemen will look through the Con- jurisdiction without the wish of the stitutions of the different States, they will counties being expressed; and I have, find very few instances, if any, where they therefore, offered this substitute to harmodefine the jurisdiction of the county court. nize these different views. But I will say They give it such jurisdiction as the law that it does appear to me as though some shall confer, leaving it to the experience gentlemen are desiring to have a syste na and wisdom of the General Assembly to of courts inflicted upon tee counties conconfer such as may be found to be requir- trary to the-wish of the people of their ed by the future progress of the State, the counties. growing wants of the people, the differ- Mr. SPRINGER. Mr. Chairman: I ent kinds of business by which not only would like to ask the gentleman if it is different actions must be conferred upon not altogether probable that delegates, that court, but different forms of action. representing counties on this floor, know There are propositions even before this as well what their people want as gentleConvention, at this time, to create forms men who do not represent them? of action, which it will be eminently prop- Mr. CHURCH. Mr. Chairman: It is er to confer upon county courts, should to consult this very wish that section it be found necessary. nineteen is so amended, that it may meet Mr. KING. Mr. Chairman: I would the wishes of the delegates and of the like to ask the gentleman a question for people of the different counties of the information. If your substitute is adopted State, that a general law may be framed saying that the Legislature shall confer that may meet the wishes of all the countheadditional jurisdiction upon thecourts, ties in the State, and yet need not operwould not that be special legislation, ate upon those counties unless they wish which we have prohibited by the article it. on the legislative department? [Here the hammer fell.] Mr. CHURCH. Mr. Chairman: I will Mr. HAY. Mr. Chairman: I would answer the question of the gentleman by inquire whether an amendment to the saying that it would not. I endeavored substitue is in order? to make myself understood yesterday The CHAIRMAN. No, sir; I think upon that question, that whatever juris- not at present. The question is now upon diction is to be created by section nine- the amendment of the gentleman from teen of the substitute would be by gene- DeKalb [MIr. Sedgwick]. ral law creating jurisdiction for county Mr. WHfiEATONi. Mr. Chairman: There courts, and providing for the method in is no amendment pending to the substiwhich the counties shall put it in opera- tute. Therefore, I think an amendment tion; and it would be no more special leg- to the substitute would be in order. islation than legislation regarding town- Mir. FULLER. Mr. Chairman: I think, ship organization. There is a general before an amendment to the substitute law providing for township organization can be in order, the amendments to the throughout the State, but yet no counties original section should first be disposed are required to adopt it except such as of; and after the original section is persignify their desire to place themselves fected, then an amendment to the substiunder it, in the manner pointed out by tute will be in order. At present the that law itself. So I suppose it will be question, as I understand it, is upon the here. amendment of the gentleman from De And I will say right here a few words Kalb [Mr. Sedgwick], to the original sec in reply to an objection made by some tion as amended. The original section gentleman that there can be no jurisdic- must be perfected before the substitute tion given to the county courts by the can be acted upon, or befbre any amend General Assembly, except what is to be ment to it will be in order. given under section nineteen of the sub- Mr. HAY. Mr. Chairman: I will state stitute. Such I do not understand to be to the committee my proposition, and de the case; but, on the contrary, by that sire briefly to explain what I desire to do. substitute the General Assembly would The longer this discussion has progressed, proceed to confer jurisdiction on every the more I think it becomes apparent that county court in the State to the fullest ex- we can only agree upon some general out tent provided for in the report of the Ju- line for constituting the county court, and diciary Committee, if it were asked for that if we undertake to go into legislation and believed to be necessary. Section to any considerable extent,in the formation nineteen of the substitute is only designed of these courts, we shall not only involve to provide some remedy, as indicated by ourselves in great diversity of sentiment section nineteen of the report, that an in regard to it, but may reasonably cx other jurisdiction may be created which pect our constituents to be equally bother snail not be obnoxious tothe objection to ed, and to entertain equally as diverse the eighteenth section, that is providing tviews in regard to what their action should that all county courts shall be of uniform be upon it. Now, it seems to me desirajurisdiction, and providing that all such ble to avoid that as much as possible, and extended jurisdiction shall be uniform, yet at the same time secure some desirable and that it may be adopted for a particu- ends in the way of limitation upon the lar class of counties, withouit, at the same Legislature in respect to the future con time, necessarily applying to other coun- I stitution of the court, leaving as much as ties. we reasonably can to the Legislature. Now, I understand this to be a fair ex- That our action, if we go into much detail, pc s i t ion of what the meaning of the sub- will create diversity of views, as t o the s t i t u t e is. So far as I am concerned, I particular jurisdiction that t he court would be as willing to accett section nine- should have, or as to its application in teen of the original report, as section particular counties, we may rest assured. Now, it is a desideratum to secure uniformity as far as possible, in the jurisdiction of these courts, as hereafter to be constituted. That is more important than that we should enter into the details as to how that jurisdiction is to bc made up. Upon examination of almost every Constitution in the United States, I have found that no where in any of them, have they undertaken to go into the details of the jurisdiction of these inferior courts. Mr. RICE. I believe in the State of New York a judiciary article was adop,ed that contained a provision very nearly like this, except that one hundred occurs there where five hundred occurs in this. Mr. HAY. That may be an exception. In all the other States I fail to find an attempt to define the jurisdiction of these county courts, or courts answering the same description as this court does. It seems to me we should provide that whatever jurisdiction is conferred by the Legislature, should be of a uniform character. But as it is apparent that we cannot secure entire uniformity, because a jurisdiction that would be desirable in the larger counties, will not, probably, be desirable in counties of a medium class, nor in the smaller counties, we should prescribe that while the Legislature may classify the counties of the State, and prescribe a jurisdiction as to one class that may not be prescribed as to another, it shall be uniform in respect to the class of counties upon which it is to operate. Having prescribed thus much, we may safely leave to the Legislature the matter of the detail of the jurisdiction that they confer in these respective counties. With that view I have drawn a provision which is substantially a substitute for all the propositions before the committee, which I will read for the information of the committee, and hope they will seriously consider before passing definitely upon any of the other propositions before them. It is as follows. County courts shall continue to exist with such jurisdiction as they now have under general laws, until such jurisdiction shall be changed by the General Assembly. But the General Assembly may hereafter classify the counties of this State, and provide for in creasing or diminishing the jurisdiction of said courts by laws uniform as to that class of counties upon which such laws shall operate. Now, sir, that secures many things that have been in controversy here. Some gentlemen have objected that the article, as provided, cuts down the jurisdiction that county courts now have under general laws, and that that is not now desirable. Mr. RICE. When you say that the Legislature may classify the coulnties, you mean —classify with reference to what? Mr. HAY. It muay be susceptible of an amendment of that sort — Mr. RIC:E. Do youl mean to classify by population? I suggest the addition of that word. Mr. HAY. I will accept any amendment that may improve it. Now, all the j urisdiction now cast upon the county courts, under the law of this State, is protected. It provides that they shall continue to exist until that jurisdiction shall be changed. I will read that portion of the amendment again: But the General Assembly may hereafter classify the counties of this State, and pros vide for diminishing or increasing the jurisdiction of said courts, by laws uniibrm as to the class of counties upon whic~ such laws shall operate. -WEDNESDAY~ 1084 DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS.; gentleman has apparently lost sight of the fact that the county court system as it exists under the Constitution of our State, is the probate court of the State. By his substitute he would place it in the power of the General Assembly to entirely destroy the probate jurisdiction, and all the other present jurisdiction of the county court, and to in effect abolish it, and create a new court. That is not intended, I presume, by the gentleman from Sangamen [Mr. Hay]. If that be so, the amendment of the gentleman would come in with greater propriety as an additional section, to the first section, either of the proposition of the gentleman from McHenry [Mr. Church], or the report of the Committee on the Judiciary. - I do not wish to discuss the merits of the several amendments at this time. Mr. WELLS. Mr. Chairman: I am decidedly in favor of remitting all the details of this plan to the Legislature. If it is possible for the Legislature to classify these counties in any other way than by population, it will, I think, ac complish what is necessary. There may be many large counties in the State that do not want a county court, and there may be many small counties that want it. If the classification could be made upon the wishes of the counties, that would reach a solution of this whole question. I should like to hear the gentleman who presented that amendment upon the question, because the debate in this Convention may explain to the Legislature the understanding of the Convention, and may influence them in passing a law to classify the counties. Mr. BROWNING. Mr. Chairman: I will for a very few minutes again claim the attention of the committee, and then be done with this proposition so far as I am concerned. I think it is better for us to understand exactly where we are before we vote, and to vote with the full knowledge of what we are doing. I do not agree with the gentleman from Sangamon [Mr. Hay], that it is manifest we cannot agree upon any system of county courts. What indication has there been to justify such a conclusion? I know there is an effo)rt to defeat any action, and the only question before the committee now is between the proposition reported by the Committee on the Judiciary to enlarge the jurisdiction of the county courts, so as to afford relief to the circuit courts, and enable us to reduce the number of circuit judges, doing nothing. The propositions of the gentleman from McHenry [Mr. Church], and the gentleman from Sangamon [Mr. Hay], are simply the repetitions of what exists now in the present Constitution. They make no change, or no appreciable change, no valuable change. If it is the sentiment of a majority of this body that we shall abide by the old system, let us say so. Then there is no necessity for adopting either of these substitutes, for the present provision upon the subject in the existing Constitution is better than either of them. f Now, the first question we have to determine, and I thought we had deterimined, is, whether we will give any relief to the circuit courts. If we determine not to-do it, then we are wasting time in the consideration of this county court article. If on the other hand, it is regarded as desirable to relieve the cir Which provision ought to be the best one, unless with that the courts have too much jurisdiction in some of the counties. If the Legislature should hereafter so determine, they may diminish it. On the otther hand, there are many gentlemen on this floor who think the jurisdiction ought to be increased. It is manifest that we cannot agree upon any class of jurisdiction that will be acceptable to all the counties in the State. Now, by my proposition, we remit that question to the Legislature, with the simple limitation that they may classify the counties and provide a system uniform as to each class of counties, with the power either to diminish the jurisdiction now conferred, or to increase that jurisdiction, as to the Legislature shall seem best, and it seems to me this is probably the only road open to us out of this interminable difficulty. We must recollect that this same difficulty will arise in the discussion of this article before the people of this State, that has arisen here. It will be remitted to every county seat in this State, as to whether we have rightfully constituted the jurisdiction of this court, if we undertake to go into the details of it. Mr. WELLS. How would this classification be made to meet the wants of large counties which do not want county courts, and of sister counties who do? Mr. HAY. Let the Legislature provide. Mr. WELLS. What classification can be devised that would meet the wants of both sides? Mr. HAY. The Legislature may adopt the principle embodied in the proposition of the gentleman from McHenry [Mr. Church]. Leave it to the Legislature, which may, by a general law, adopt the provisions of the gentleman's amendments, and provide that counties seeing proper, through their board of supervisors, or a vote of the people, may accept this jurisdiction if they want it, or reject it. It seems to me that if this provision is adopted it will copse as near meeting generat acceptance as anything that we sthall adopt. Mr. GOODHUE. Has the gentleman any objection to saying that the Legislature may classify counties upon the basis of population? Silr. HAY-. None, if that is thought to be a desirable amnendment. Mr. GOODHU-E. Without that they can class~ify them on any basis they see fit. Mr. HAYES. I would ask the gentleman from Santamort [Mr. Hay], whether he proposes his amendment as a,subsfl lute for the amendment of the gentleman from McHenry [Mr. Church]*? Mr. HAY. I am not sufficiently versed in parliamentary law to say. It will come in where it can be got in properly. It occurred to me that if I could get it in as an amendment to the substitute of the gentleman from Mc~tenry [Mr. Church], it would be in the power of the committee to make it a substitute for the section, as already adopted. Mr. CHURCH. It would operate as well as an amendment to the nineteenth section. M~r. HAYES. If it is to be offered as a substitute for all the propositions pending, there would be very grave objections to the proposition of the gentleraa from Sangamon [Mr. Hay.] ~he 272 1 1 t t t 9 .i t 1WARCl 9, 1870. 1085 cuit courts of the immense pressure of business that is upon them now, and to enable us to economize by cutting off one-half the number of circuit judges. then we are to do it through the county courts, and through no other instrumentality, so that it becomes us to consider whether we can do it in any other way than by adopting the section as reported by the committee, or something similar to it. It is objected that that section is legislative. It is not legislation, but it does what every good Constitution should do. It prescribes the jurisdiction which the courts shall have when they come into existence. The Constitution of the United States declares in the most explicit terms the jurisdiction of the courts of the United States, and does not leave it to Congress to determine what that jurisdiction should be. It must be left to the General Assembly to provide the machinery through which the jurisdiction shall be exercised -to provide all the details by which the court shall be carried on, and through which it shall exercise its powers after it is brought into existence; but it is the province of the Constitution to declare its jurisdiction; and the only object of putting it into the Constitution is to ele. vate this county court in dignity and usefulness, and, as a necessary consequence, to secure a higher order of ability on the bench. These substitutes are j ust what the present Constitution is now, and if we adopt them it will be equivalent to declaring that we will do nothing but adhere to the practice we have had under the old Con. stitution. We want to enlarge and extend the jurisdiction of the county courts and give them higher dignity and capacity of usefulness; but for the very reasons stated on yesterday, that cannot be done except by constitutional provision. There are multitudes of people in this State, Mr. Chairman, who have aspirations to a seat upon the bench of the circuit court; and all that class of men will beset their friends in the General Assembly, and use their influence to prevent an extension of the jurisdiction of the coun. ty courts, so as to keep up the necessity for a great number of circuit courts, and give them an opportunity to be elected to judgeships. And if we leave this thiong just where we found it, as we will do ifwe adopt either of the substitutes, the jurisdiction of these county courts will never be extended. There will be influeences at work that will prevent it. There will be the aspirations of ambitious men, men who desire to sit upon the bench of the circuit court, to oppose, and through their friends in the Legislature, will present, the adoption of any system of relief for the circuit courts which might otherwise be devised; but, sir, if the sections as reported by the committee or something like it be adopted, the increased jurisdiction-so much to be desired will attach at once and it will be imperative upon the General Assembly to provide for putting the courts in motion at once. We make it a court. ofe dignity and responsibility and usefulness, equal to any other in this Stat-e. W~e relieve the circuit court of half of its business. We relieve the counties:of more than half the expense of g~ran~d and petit jurors, relieve them of the expense of keeping their jails full of a small class of vagabond 1086~~~~~ OOSIUTOA COY-TO WED= SD and consequently does not define their jurisdiction, as the gentleman proposes to do in the section under consideration; nothing of the kind whatever; but leaves it all to be done by Congress, by legislation. I hope no gentleman on this floor will be misled by the statement "that this is not l-gislation, but the appropriate work of the Convention." Mr. HAY. Mr. Chairman: As suggested by the gentleman from DeKalb [Mr. Sedgwick], I think the argument of the gentleman from Adams [Mr. Browning], as to the Constitution of the United States haviug undertaken to distribute the ju risdiction of these courts, is entirely l unwarranted. The Constitution of the U,ited States, as it had to definle a class of cases to which the judicial power of the United States should extend, did undertake to defiLe the extent of that power; but it nowhere undertakes to distribute between their courts, their jurisdiction. It nowhere undertakes to go into the details of what jurisdiction the district courts shall have, and what the circuit courts, but leaves that entirely to congress. Now, when I was up yesterday on this county article, I referred to the difficulty which has arisen in the Judiciary Committee, and here over this article Mr. WHEATON. I would suggest to the gentleman that no State Constitution does it. Mr. HAY. I do not say we cannot agree upon some article that will go into the details of this county court jurisdiction. A majcrity of this committee may agree upon some system against the protest of a very considerable minority here. But when we find gentlemen on this floor representing many counties, who say such a system will not suit them; that their populations will be opposed to it; that it will raise controversies if a m ajority of this committee undertake to impose this increased jurisdiction of these county courts upon their counties; that giving them increased jurisdiction will raise controversy likely to prevent many votes from being given to the adoption of the Constitution — ought we not to pay some heed to the remonstrances of that class of gentlemen, and not merely because we can by force of a majority carry this provision, overlook consequences of that character that may result from it? Now, sir, although I thought that in large counties it would be desirable to secure some increased jurisdiction, when I found gentlemen representing many constituencies upon this floor, whose representations we could rely upon, saying that they had no use for such a court, and that it would be merely entailing additional costs upon the cou~nty treasuries, ;hat it would create so great a dissatisfaction in those counties as to insure a large vote against the Constitution, I was bound as a reasonably prudent member of this Convention, to give some heed to such representations, and to consider them in reference to the action of the committee upon this article; and I see no ot he r way of successfully getting out of this difficulty, than= by securing what we can by providing for uniformity as we have already done, and remitting to the Legislature the question of increasing or diminishing this jurisdiction, as it may suit the different localities in this State. That may be done under the principle of the proposition of the gentleman offenders for six months in t he year, and the savi ng tha t w e will make in expense to the counties, will more than meet all the increased expense a tte nding the ealarged jurisdiction of the county court. [flere the hammer fell.] Mr. SEDGWICK Mr. Chairman: I object entirely to such wholesale state ments as have been made by the gentleman from Adams [Mr. Browning] in regard to the courts of the United States, provided for in the Constitution. And in order to show this committee how far he is warranted in making such statements, I propose to read the first sect ion of the judiciary article of the Constitution of the United States, from which it will be seen that the United States courts are not established in the Constitution, are not even separately named, except the supreme court, much less their separate or individual jurisdiction defined; but, on the contrary, it is expressly provided, in terms, in the Constitution, that "the congress may, from time to time, ordain and establish inferior courts." This is the principle that I have been contending for, in Committee of the Whole, in regard to our courts-that we should provide that the Legislature may ordain and establish inferior courts, and define their jurisdiction, rather than undertake to do it in the Consti tution, for the reason that it is merely legislation. The gent) eman from Adams [Mr. Browning] says it is not legislation, and refers to thie Constitution of the United States for proof. Now, let us see what that document does say upon this subject in the article on the judiciary: SEC. 1. The judicial power of the United States shall be vested in one supreme court and in such inferior courts as cougress may, from time to time, ordain and estab lish. The judges, both of the supreme and inferior courts, shall hold their offices during good behavior; and,hall, at stated times, receive for their services a compensation. which shall not be diminished during their continuance in office. Mr. BROWNING. Read the secend Mr. SEDGWICK. The gentleman asks me to read the second section. I willread it for his exclusive benefit. SEc. 2. 1. The judicial power shall extend to all cases, in law and equity, arising under this Constitution, the laws of the United States, and treaties made, or which shall be made, under their authority: to all cases afectiDg ambassadors, other public ministers and con)rsuls;* to all cases of admiralty and maritime jiurisdiction;, to controversies to which tile United States shall be a party, to controversies between two or more States, between a State and citizens of another State, between citizens of different States, between citizens of the same State, claiming lands unlder grants of different States, and between a State or the citizens thereof and foreign States, citizens or subjects. 2. In all cases affecti~Jg ambassadors, other public ministers and consuls, and those in which a State shall be -a party, the supreme court shall have original jurisdiction. In all the other cases before mentioned, the supreme court shall have appellate jurisdiction, both as to law and fact, with such exceptions and under such regulations as the Congress shall' makie. 3. The trial of all crimnes, except in cases of impeachment, shall be by jury, and such trial shall be held in the State where the said crimes shall have been committed;7 but when not committed within any State, the tr ial shall be at such place or places as the C'ongress may, by law, have directed. ]Mr. BROWNIlNG.~ And the third section goes on dcfining the jurisdiction. Mr. SEDGSWICK. Mr. Chairman: I submit that the (Corstitutio;Lof the U~nited States does not establish t hese courts, 1086 CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION 'WF,DNESDAY, from McHenry [Mr. Church]. When it is requested by a vote of the people, or by a vote of the board of supervisors of the county, they may do it by a general law classifying the counties. They may say that in counties having a certain population, the jurisdiction shall be so and .so, and in counties having a certain large population it shall be thus and so, and thus they may adopt their legislation to the wants of the differt2nt portions of the State. That is what I propose to accomplish by tl-iis substitute, not to make an arbitrary rule that the jurisdiction of all counties shall be increased by the affirmative action of this Convention, against the remonstrance and against the wants of large portions of the State. If there are counties where this jurisdiction is not Deeded, it must be apparent that if we clothe the court with the j urisdictiola of misdemeanors and appeals, and this additioiial jurisdiction in civil cases to the ainourit of five hundred dollars, we must have a jury more or less attendii)g upon the term of the court, and that the impanDelliDg and SUnIMOniDg of that jury and the cost of officers, etc., must be a burden upon those county treasurie 4, that may amount to thousands of dollars in the course of the year, and if they protest that it is not needed, why do we force it upon them? Now, sir, with this power remitted to the Legislitture,the, Legislature can classify the counties, and where such a system is needed, the people will be given the opportunity of obtaining it. That is aecouiplislied by the substitute that I pro pose, and it- also provides for what was deemed a great defect in the article in the exiStiDg-Constitution-that there was no limitation as to uniformity. It seems to me that we accomplish a very desirable end by this provision in regard to uniformity' and avoid all the objections that have been suggested in regard to -OlDg into the details of legislation. Mr. PERLEY. I like the speech of the gentleman from SaDgamon LNir. Hey]. I would ask him how he is g,)ing to vote upon the substitute of the gentleman from MCIleDry [Ntr. Church]. Mr. IT,&Y. I want to vote in such a way as to get the substitute in tile place. he ther amendments. MARCH 9, 18'70. DJ'BATES AKD PROCEEDINGS. 1087 fore been, where it has become a matter of local, and sometimes of personal convenience, but as a system it constitutes no part of the system of the State. As it has been in the past, so it will be in the future, in my judgment. This -proposition will at least leave it in the power of counties that want this kind of court to obtain it, without trustirg to all the de lays and obstructions and inaction of the Legislature. So much is the time of the General Assembly taken up with matters of general legislation and with matters of local concern, that it will be very difficult for the Legislature, -in as short sessions as they have usually had, to digest a system of county courts that w;ll be acceptable to all parts of the State. The result will be, as I think, that it will never be accomplished so as to meet the wants of the people, unless a foundation is laid for it n.n the Constitution. i Mr. GOODELL. Mr. Chairman: I move that the committee now rise, report progress, and ask leave to sit again at two o'clock. The motion was agreed to. rid of the que stion withou t doing any thing, as I t ak e it. If the committee wish to adopt that plan, there is nothing to do, but simply to refuse to adopt any provision addi tional to that w hich we already have in our present Constitution, and that will avoi d t he wh ol e c ontroversy. We may as well do i t dire ctly as indirectly. The propositionl that says the Legislature ma y d o so and so, is but saying what the Leg islature can do quite as well without say ing it, unless ther e i s some prohibition upon the power. Now, I will t ask of the gentleman from McHnetiry [Ir. Ch urch], w hether, if his pr opo si tion is left out of the Constitution e ntirely, and there is no restraining clause upon the power of the Legislature, the Legislature canno t ( I.-) everything tha t is propols e iin h is substitute, and eva erything that is proposed by the propo - sition of tlie g e ntleman from Sangamdon [Mr. Hay]? Mr. CHURCH. I will answer the question. If the Constitution provides that county courts shall be of uniform jurisdiction, the Legislature cannot create a jurisdiction for a different class of counties, unless that is also provided fo,r in the Con st itut ion. I think there ought not to be over two classes of cl)unties. fir. RICE. That is not a direct answer to the que stion, but perhaps it is a partial one, and I will accept it as such. The Legislature can, if there is no prohibition in the Constitution, make two or three classes of courts by a general law, and each class shall be uniform. The provision may compel them to uniformity, but they can provide for it without compulsion. They can create these county courts, but we cannot compel them to enlarge the jurisdiction, unless there is a provision in the Constitution. They call do, in fact, all that these propositions propose, without the propositions themselves, and the only value in the propositions, is that it compels them to establish them uniformly, when they establish them at all. It does not create them. Then I come back to the proposition. The section as amended by the substitute of the gentleman from Stark [Mr. Fuller], provides that the jurisdiction originaliy reported by the Committee on the Judiciary, f(or a county court, is one which shall attach to the county court, whenever the majority of the people of a particular co)unty shall vote for it. Now, while I have expressed my disapprobation of such provisions as that, I am conltent to) take it with that amendment, as a choice of evils, and a better proposition, inl my j udgfment, than anything that has been substituted; for it will give the counties an opportunity, if they need such a court, and mtany do want it, to adopt it; and it will nlot impose it upon any county that does not want it. Upon the principle of dispensing with the iron rule that all counties shall be affected alike, whether they want the provision or lnot, this amendment answers that objection, and still leaves it possible to attach that jurisdiction to the county courts without leaving the Legislature to create it. If wve leave the Legislature to create it, I think the history of it in the future will be as it has been in the past, during the last twenty-two years-so wvell presentJed by the gentleman from Adams [Mr. Browning], that it never will be created} except in a few counties, as it has h;Feto AFTERVO OX SESSION. WEDNESDAY, March 9, 1870. The Convention nmet at two o'clock P. M., and -was called to order by -the President. CONSIDERATION OF COMMITTEE REPORTS. Mr. ANDERSON. Mr. President: I desire to offer a resolution. The PRESIDENT. The resoluti on will be entertained by common consent. The Secretary read the resolution offered by Mr. Anderson, as follows: Reso'ved, That hereafter the judiciary article shall be considered in Convention, and members limited to ten minutes in debate upon one subject. Mr. BROWWELL. Mr. President: That will occasion the necessity of journaliZing all the proceedings as we go along, and will encumber the record very much. Mr. ANDERSON. Mr. President: Then it will cut off a great deal of useless debate. NIGIIT SESSIONS. Mr. CARY. Mr. President: I have a resolution which I wish to offer for adoption. The Secretary read the resolution offered by Yr. Cary, as follows: Resolved, That henceforth this Convention will hold evening sessions, the same to commence at halftpast seven o'clock P.M. Mr. BROMWELL. I move to lay the resolution on the table. Mr. CARY. I call for the yeas and nays. The yeas and nays were ordered. The Secretary proceeded to call the roll. Mr.,PERLEY (when his name was c lied) said: Mr. President: I do not believe in suicide, and therefore I vote "Aye." Mr. KING (before the result was announced) said: I did not understand the motion was to lay on the table. If that is the motion I voted wrongly. I vote "Aye." The result was then announced-yeas 36, nays 18-as follows: CALL OF CONVENTION. Mr. CROSS. Mr. President: I move a call of the Convention. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon ordering a call of the Convention. The motion was agreed to. The Secretary called the roll, when the following gentleme n answered to t hei r names: PRESENT. Abbott, Dement, Sharp, Anderson, Fox, Sherrill, Anthony, Fuller, SKinner, Bayne, Goodell, Springer, Beenjarmin, Goodhue, Sutherland, Billings- Haines,otLake,Tin cher, Bowman, Harwood, Truesdale, Bromwell, Hay, Turner, Browning, McCoy, Underwood, Buxton, McDowell, Wagner, Cameron, Merriam, Wall, Cary, Moore, Washburn, Church, Parker, Wells, Coolbaugh, Perley, Wendling, Craig, Peirce, Wilson, Cross, Rice, Mr. President, Cummings, Sedgwick, The PRESIDENT. The doorkeeper will close the-doors. Mr. COOLBAUGH. Mr. President: I move that further proceedings under the call be now dispensed with. The question being upon the motion of Mr. Coolbaugh, to dispense with further proceedings under the call of the Convention, the motion was agreed to. S CONSIDERATION OF REPORTS, AGAIN. Mr. WENDLING. Mr. President: I move to lay the resolution of the gentleman from Jefferson [Mr. Anderson] on the table. Mr. ELDREDGE. Mr. President: I call for a reading of the resolution. The Secretary read the resolution offered by Mr. Anderson, as follows: Resolved, That hereafter the judiciary article shall be considered in Convention, and members limited to ten minutes in debate on the subject. The question being on the motion of Mr. Wendling, to lay the resolution on the table, a division was ordered., Haines of Cook,Sedgwick, Hart, Sharp, Harwood, Sherrill, Hayes, Springer, King, Sutherland, McCoy, Tincher, Medill, Truesdale, Moore, Turner, Parks, Underwood, Perley, Wait, Rice, Wheaton Robinson, Wilson-36. ABSENT, OR NOT VOTING. Allen of Alex., E nglish, Poage, Allen, of Cr'fd,Fox, Ross, Anthon y, Gamble, Schol field, Atkin s, Haines of Lake,Skin ner, Bryan, Hankins, V ~andeventer, Billings, Hanna, Whiting, Brown, - Hildrup, Wells, Bayne, Kirkpatrick, Wright, Ellis, Neece, - Mr. President-29. Emmerson, Pillsbury, So the motion of Mr. Bromwell to lay MARCIH 9, 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDI-NGS. 1087 on the table the resolution offered by 3,lr.. Cary, was agreed to. ADJOURNMENT. Mr. PERLEY. I move the Convention do now adjourn. The motion was agreed to. So the C'onvention (at twelve o'clock and forty-eight minutes) adjourned. Abbott, Archer, Bowmar), Bromwell, Browning, Church, Cody,'' C,rq,iV, Dement, Eldred,le, Fuller, Goodell, NA-YS. Cummings, Cross, Goodhue, McDowell, Merriam, Parker, Anderson, - BeDjamin, Buxton, Cameron, Cary, Coolbaugh, Peirce, Snyder, Wal,,,ner, Wall, Wastiburn, WendUng-18. 1088 COXSTITUTIOAL COV]TIO WEDNESDAY, The question being on the adoption of the amendment offered by Mr. Sedgwick, a division was ordered, when the amendment was not agreed to. Mr. HAY. Mr. Chairman: I now move to amend the substitute by striking it out and inserting the following. The Clerk read the substitute offered by Mr. Hay, as follows: County courts shall continue to exist with such jurisdiction as they now have u nider ge neral iaws, until such jurisdiction shall be changed by the General Assembly. But the General Assembly may hereafter classify the counties of this State, and provide for diminishing or increasing the jurisdiction of said courts by laws uniform as to the class of counties upon which such laws shall operate. Mr. HAINES, of Lake. Mr. Chairman: I would suggest to the gentleman, as it will be understood, that it continues the jurisdiction of these county courts as they now have it, no two counties have jurisdiction alike now. It is an outrage upon the profession and upon the judiciary, and to continue this by general law is to perpetrate a still greater fraud. I do not of course accuse the gentleman of attemptinlg to do an injustice, but I think that it is all wrong. Mr t. M Ar. r. Chairman: The gentleman misunderstands the provision. I cannot see any reason for such an understanding of it. It provides that "county courts shall continue to exist with such jurisdiction as they now have under general laws" Mr. FULLER. Mr. Chairmann: It seems to me, if I understand the substitute, that it opens the door for special legislation on that question. If it were to provide that the counties should be divided into two or three classes in proportion to population, and then provide for a general law adapted to each class, it might answer the purpose. But now, if the Legislature should pass one law, giving a certain jurisdiction to a countlty having twenty thousand inhabitants, a county having a little greater population might ask that a differentj urisdiction should be granted to a county of twenty two thousand inhabitants. Then a county of twenty five thousand inhabitants might want still another class formed. Mr. HAY. Will the gentleman allow me to read my substitute? Mr. FULLER. Certainly. Mr. HAY. It reads as follows: County courts shall continue to exist, with such jurisdiction as they now have under general laws, until such jurisdiction shall be echanged by the General Assembly. But the General Assembly may hereafter classify the coun ties of this State, and provide for diminishing or increasing the jurisdiction of said courts, by laws uniform as to the class of counties upon which such laws shall operate. Mr. FULLER. I understand it just the same now; because the number of classes is not limited by this substitute, and the Legislature may make julst as many as are asked for. They may create twenty different classes of county courts, with different jurisdictions, as I under stand it. They may establish a general law for counties having twenty thousand inhabitants; another for counties of twenty-two thousand population; another for counties having twenty-five thousand, and so on up to one hundred thousand; and although these laws would nominally be general, there would be so many different classes that in effect it would amount to special legilation.p iMr. HAY. Mr. Chairman: I will con sent to modify my substitute so as to provide for tw o classes. I will make the alteration. The Clerk read the substitute offered by Mr. Hay, as modified, as follows: County courts shall continue to exist with such jurisdiction as they now have under general laws, until such jurisdiction shall be changed by the General Assemnbly. But the General Assembly may hereafter classify the counties of this State into two classes, and provide for diminishing or increasing the jurisdiction of said courts by laws uniform as to the class of counties upon which such laws shall operate. Mr. HAYES. Mr. Chairman: I understand that this is a substitute for the entire three sections offered by the oentleman from McHenry [Mr. Church]. Am I right? Mr. HAY. Yes, sir. Mr. CHURCH. Mr. Chairman: If the gentleman from Cook [Mr. Hayes] will yield for a moment, I wish to remark that I do not consider the amendment offered by the gentleman from Sangamon [Mr. Hay] now in order; still as it conforms somewhat to the principle embraced in my substitute, if it can be so shaped that a majority of the Committee of the Whole will concur in it, I am willing to waive that objection. It not being in order, I will accept it as a part of my substitute, if it can be made more satisfactory. Mr. HAYES. Mr. Chairman: I understand the Chair has decided it is in order, and the question is now upon the proposition to strike out the amendment of the gentleman from McHenry [Mr. Church], and insert this., I will state in very brief terms the objections I have to the amendment of the gentleman from Sangamon [Mr. Hay]. I do so with great deference to the superior ability and more accurate information of that gentleman. I should regret very much to differ with him, unless my convictions were very clear. If this amendment should be adopted it would stand as a substitute for the three sections proposed by the gentleman from McI-;nry [Mr. Church], and for the Ithree sections proposed by the C(mrnmittee on the Judiciary. It would then stand as the only constitutional provision relating to county courts. Now, I wish to inquire whether the proposition made by thegentleman from Sangamon [Mr. Hay], would be an improvement upon the present system, or upon the proposition in the report olf the committee. I understand the effect of the proposition to be this, that it gives to the General Assemxbly entire control over the county courts, and empowers it to make them courts of superior j urisdiction if it pleases, or abolish them entirely. More than that, it could substitute the county court for the supremle court of the State, under this proposition; because there is no limitat~ion upon the power to increase jurisdiction. That jurisdiction may be increased ad libitum. It is7 not confinedd to original jurisdiction as is provided in the present Constitution,t but may have jurisdiction of all kinds, in the discretion of the General Assembly. Now, that embraces everything. I~t gives the General Assembly full powver; it removes all limitation upon the power of the Genera! Assembly, so that it gives to the county court concurrent jurisdiction as a court of appeals, with even the supreme court of the State. It could increase its jurisdiction to th~ fullest extent COUNTY COURTS. SEC. 18. There shall be elected, in and for each county, by the electors thereof, one judge and one clerk of the county court, whose terms of office shall be four years. County courts shall be courts of record, and shall have original jurisdiction in all matters of probate; settlements of estates of deceased persons; appointment of guardians and conservators, and settlement ot their accou nts; in all matters relatiug to apprentices; and in proceedings for the collection of taxes and assessments, but no other original jurisdiction relating to real estate. In all counties that may adopt the same by a majority of all the votes cast at any general election, the said county court shall also have original jurisdiction in actions of debt, assumpsit, trover, replevin -and trespass, either to person or personal property, where the amount claimed or value of the property in controversy does not exceed five hundred dollars, and of crimes and misdemeanors where the punishment shall not be capital, or confinement in the penitentiary. And the amendment offered by Mr. Sedgwick, as follows: County courts that now have an extended jurisdiction shall continue to exercise the saine jurisdiction they now have, in addition to the jurisdiction conferred by this section, until otherwise provided for by law-. And the substitute therefor, offered by Mr. Church, as follows: SEC. 18. There shall be in each county a court, to be called a county court, the jurisdiction of which shall extend to all probate, and such other jurisdiction as the General Assembly may confer, in civil cases, and such criminal jurisdiction as may be prescribed by law, when the punishment is not capital or confinement in the p:nitentiary; and which jurisdiction, and the practice in said county courts shall be uniform throughout the State, except as herein provided. ~ W-ED-NF,SDAY, CONSTITUTIONAL CON'VENTION 1088 The PRESIDENT. There are eighteen in the affirmative, and there are Diueteen in the negative. The motion is not adopted. The question is on the adoption of the resolution. Mr. SEDGWICK' Mr. Presi(lent: Several gentlemen rose after the Chair had counted. Mr. BROWNING. Mr. President: I hope the resolution will not be adopted. It will involve us in a great deal more difficulty than we now are. We' ought to go through this article as we did the others. Every man should have an opportunity of offering such amendments as he thiliks proper, and of expressing his views. If we go into Convention cverything has to be then jourdalized, and it will consume three or four times as much time as in Committee of the Whole. The PRESIDENT. The Chair will put the question again on the motion to lay the resolution on the table. The question then being on the motion to lay on the table the resolution offered by i'vlr. AndersoD, a division was again ordered. The committee divided, when, there being thirty in the affirmative, the Motion was agreed to. JUDICIAL DEPARTMENT. The PRESIDENT. Unless there is objectiOD, the Convention will resolve itself into Committee of the Whole to consider the judiciary article. So the Convention, as in Committee of the Whole (,Nlr. Bowman in the chair), resumed the consideration of the report of the Judic.iary -Committeo. The question being on the adoption of the amendment offered by Mr. Sedgwick, the Clerk read the substitute ot Mr. Fuller, to section eighteen, and adopted by the Convention, as follows: MAROH 9,1870. DEBATES AD PROCEEDINGS. 1089 servators, and settlements of their accounts in all matters relating to apprentices; and in proceedings for the collection of taxes and as sessments, but no other original jurisdiction relating to real estate. The jurisdiction in these cases is confined to original jurisdiction. Mr. HAINES, of Lake. I would ask the gentleman where the provision is creat i ng this county court? Mr. BROMWELL. There is such a section. Mr. HAYES. "They shall have original jurisdiction;" their jurisdiction is limited in a manner which does not exist in the amendment of the gentleman from Sangamon [Mr. Hay]. The jurisdiction is clearly defined in this section. There is a provision that in certain county courts the court shall have a larger jurisdiction. It is as follows: In all counties that may adopt the same by a majority of all the votes cast at any general election, the said county court shall also have original jurisdiction in actions of debt, assumpsit, trover, replevin and trespass, either to person or personal property, where the amount claimed or the value f the property in controversy does not exceed five hundred dollars, and of crimes and misdemeanors, where the punishment shall not be capital or confinement in the penitentiary. In this case the enlarged jurisdiction or extent to which it may be increased is also clearly defined. It cannot be increased to the extent of actions on the case or in any civil action where the amount claimed is more than five hundred dollars; but it may exist in assumpsit, trover, replevin and trespass to person and personal property where the amount claimed is not over five hundred dollars. Mr. HAINES, of Lake. What is the objection to this? Mr. HAYES. There is no objection. I am simply discussing the comparative merits of these propositions, because I understand that to be the question before the committee-whether the proposition of the gentlemam from Sangamon [Mr. Hay] is preferable to that of the gentleman from McHenry [Mr. Church], and whether either is preferable to the report of the committee. Now, sir, if the objection that I have taken to the amendment of the gentleman from Sangamon [Mr. Hay] be well taken, if that amendment is not carefully guarded in regard to the increase or decrease of jurisdiction, it should teach a lesson to us all that we should not be too hasty in disregarding the report of a committee on a question of this kind. For my part, my mind has certainly been in doubt from time to time. I have been disposed to yield to the arguments of gentlemen from one side or the other, as they have had weight in my mind; but, after I have heard all the arguments, and have listened to the different amendments proposed, I am brought back still to the report of the committee, and believe that it has been more carefully guarded; that it will prove to be more exact in its phraseology, and that we can adopt it with more safety than any of the other propositions submitted. That it may be susceptible of amendment, I have no doubt. I am speaking to tfhe question of substituting the proposition of the gentleman from Sangamon [Mr. Hay] to that of the gentleman from McHenry [Mr. Church], and substituting his for the section reported by the committee, as amended. Mr. BROMWELL. Mr. Chairman: It appears to me that if this Committee of the Whole thinks it proper to give the county courts any character and efficiency, it would be hard to so provide in better shape than the committee have reported. They assign here to it such jurisdiction as would be most proper, and such jurisdiction as would take from the circuit court, certainly a very large share of its present business. That relieves the circuit court, and consequently the county where the court is held, of a share of the expense of the circuit court. In some counties the expenses of jurymen attending circuit courts amount to two or three thousand dollars at a term, besides fees. Now, this system reported, if I understand it, will curtail the expenses of the grand jury four or five hundred dollars a term; for it is, I think, fair to say, it will cut off one week in a session on an average in all these counties which have a two week's session of the grand jury, and if it cuts off so much business in the circuit court, and opens a chance to bring promptly to trial the prisoners in the jails, it will cut off an immense amount of expenses in the way of board bills and other jail expenses; all of which put to. gether, it seems to me, will make this county court a cheaper thing to the county than the present system now is. In the first place we have a judge now, at some salary, not less, I suppose, than $1,200 or $1,500 a year, and while the judge to be elected, under this, will of course have a higher salary, and there may be some expenses of jurymen, there need not be the expense that is apprehended by some gentlemen here. It is very easy for the Legislature to correct any evil of that sort. They may assign certain terms as jury terms, and juries then would appear at no other time; or they may be so disposed that jurymen will not attend that court, except when they are needed, and their expense there would be no more than their expense in the circuit court. But besides that, sir, I believe that for the most part there would be no jury wanted in that court. We assign no jury to the court of justices of the peace, in any Constitution, yet there is no iury attending the justice all the year round, except when wanted, when they are summoned; and the Legislature can either provide that a jury can be summoned when required by parties, in the ordinary way now done by justices of the peace, or they can provide certain days, say once in two months, in which the juries shall be summoned, and the business can be so ordered, that the docket cases which are to be tried by jury can be ascertained, and set for those days; and on all the other days, when the court is actlng on probate bulsiness, attending to guardianship, sales of land, and the like, there will be no jury. This leaves it in the hands of the Legislature to make a very cheap court of this kind. Now, sir, recently I cme through a toxin where a court had adjourned, after eight weeks' session. Thle j ury were j ust going home. It had been there at the rate of fifty dollars per day, together with the expenses of the officers waiting upon them during all that time, which jury was not needed more than three weeks in all that timne. The present system is a very loose and expensive mode of administering justice. If this ~ourt of t he jurisdiction of the circuit court, and could confer upon it any other jurisdiction that it might conceive of, as being within the judicial power. Now, I think that is objectionable. On the other hand, they may diminish the jurisdiction. There is no limitation upon the power to diminish the jurisdiction of the county court; and by so doing, they may take away, first one branch and then another, even its jurisdiction as a court of probate, so that it would have no power, hereafter, to act as a court of probate. It might take away its jurisdiction over apprentices, reduce it finally to a mere court for the transaction of county business, and perhaps abolish it entirely. Now, sir, I consider these objections very serious. They are objections that go to the whole proposition of she gentleman from 9angamon [Mr. Hay]. They should be conclusive, unless the Convention desire that the General Assembly shall have entire power over the county court, to make it a court of unlimited jurisdiction upon the one side, or perhaps to abolish it on the other. As far as I can judge, sir, the amendments of the gentleman from McHenry [Mr. Church] are much preferable. That gentleman proposes, in substance, the provision of the present Constitution in regard to. county courts, with some increase of their jurisdiction in a class of counties, where the vote of the people shall give their assent to such increase. Now, as between these two propositions, I think there can be no question, because, under one proposition, that of the gentleman from McHenry [Mr. Church], there is a certain jurisdiction that cannot be taken away from the county courts, and that is probate jurisdiction. The second section of his amendment provides that the increased jurisdiction may be confined, by act of the General Assembly, to a single class of counties, i. e., counties which determine to adopt it. Now, sir, between this proposition, and that of the gentleman from Sangamon [Mr. Hay], I think the advantage is decidedly on the side of this proposition of the gentleman from McHenry [Mr. Church], because it does not abolish the court, but retains it substantially as now. It increases its jurisdiction. But I think the proposition of the committee is preferable to that of the gentlemanl from kRletenry [Mr. Church]. The proposition of the committee is to fixs definitely the jurisdiction in both cases. That of the gentleman from McHenry [Mr. Church], is to leave it to the Legislature to increase the j urisdiction as much as they please, but within certain limits, and confining the increase to a certain class of counties. In the proposition of the committee, the increase is specified — we are told exactly what the increased jurisdiction of the colunty court is to be. In the first place, they are to have definitely and positively, probate julrisdiction, and in cases of apprentices, and guardians, and also' urisdicticn in inferior criminal cases. The section is as follows: SE~C. 18. There shall be elected, in and for each county, by the electors thereof, one Judge and one clerk of the county court, w~,hose terms of office shall be foulr years. County cour ts shall be courts of record, and shall have original jurisdiction in all matters of probate; settlements of estates of deceased persons' appointments of guardians and~n M'A.RCH 9, 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1089 I 109 COSIUINLC-YNINWDED me that their counties do not want it; and when there are so many counties that insist that it is neither useful or desirable, the proposition is certainly absolutely objectionable. It is not fair. Mr. RICE. Mr. Chairman: I would like to ask the gentleman whether anything in the section, as amended by the gentleman from Stark [Mr. Fuller], requires any county not wanting the system to take it? Mr. CARY. Mr. Chairman: I believe the amendment of the gentleman from Stark [Mr. Fuller], with te amendment to the amendment of the gentleman from Clinton [Mr. Buxton], has partially removed one of the greatest objections-that of forcing this system upon the people of the counties without their consent,-but it seems to me the substitute of the gentleman from McHenry [Mr. Church], or that of the gentleman from Sangamon [Mr. Hay], is preferable. If I were to prepare a measure to exactly suit myself-and I presume if every member prepared one embracing his views, we would have many, possibly eighty-five different propositions-I would give to county courts probate jurisdiction alone, and let the circuit courts and justices' courts attend to the other matters. Mr. KING. Mr. Chairman: I am very sorry that I have to trespass on the time of the committee again. I would not have done so, but for my friend from Jo Daviess [Mr. Cary]. I am very sorry also that he and I have got at loggerheads on this question. I feel that he is a very bitter enemy of this section. Why he is so I cannot for my life say. Here is a plain, unvarnished proposition from the Judiciary Committee, with the amendment of the gentleman from Clinton [Mr. Buxton], leaving it simply to the people of every county or of any one county to increase the jurisdiction of their county judge or not. The gentleman from Jo Daviess [Mr. Cary], does not want it, and he says the gentlemen from Stephenson [Mr. Turner], from McHenry [Mr. Church], and other counties perhaps, do not want it. We do not propose to force it on them. If there were a proposition to force it on them, my position would, perhaps, be different. Mr. CHURCH. Is the gentleman not willing to place it in such a condition that the people of MceHenry could have a larger jurisdiction than that now provided in this report, if they desire it? My objection is that this report now limits the jurisdiction, and provides no way by which it can be increased in either class of courts. If the counties want the jurisdiction increased beyond what it now is, they want a larger jurisdiction than is there proposed. Mr. KING. My answer, and I think it is a fair answer, is this: I presume there are very few counties which want a larger jurisdiction than is here given; if they do), we propose in the next section to establish, courts of common pleas in those counties. Then, if the jurisdiction here given does not suit a county, they can avail themselves of that jurisdiction, which, I presume, will be concurrent with the circuit court, except in criminal matters, as that is the jurisdiction generally given to common pleas courts. If we are to have this court at all, the efact is unavoidable that we are to place this section in the Constitution, if we are to have the Constitution. The only squab bleis as to the jurisdiction. No gentleman will contend that we are not bound to say that a portion of this section will become part of the organic law-that is, a county court with probate jurisdiction. The only trouble is as to the additional jurisdiction here asked for. That is so guarded that it cannot be forced on any county without the vote of the people. Then I ask gentlemen, as reasonable, fair men, what earthly objection is there to adopting this section as reported, and letting these counties whose people want these courts, come and vote for them at the polls. Now, the proposition of the gentleman from McHenry [Mr. Church] is that we shall have this jurisdiction conferred by the legislative body. I have but one objection to that, and that is that it forces my people to come into the legislative halls and lobby to get the jurisdiction of my county court increased. That is the only objection I have to it; but I say that that is a good objection-that this necessity of lobbying is something that neither the people of my, or any other county, ought to be subjected to. Mr. CHURCH. Mr. Chairman: The gentleman says that is the only objection that he has to it. I would call his attention to the fact that the substitute only contemplates passing a general law extending the jurisdiction of county courts, and then fully provides that the people of any county may come under that law by signifying their acceptance of it. When the Legislature has passed a law for another class of courts, then his county can adopt that court for their county whenever they choose. Mr. KING. But, Mr. Chairman, this section, as it now stands, provides a better and a more speedy remedy. It establishes that jurisdiction without coming to the Legislature, provided a majority of thepeople see fit to ask for it. T-e jurisdiction is all conferred, if this article is put into the Constitution. There is but one simple condition as I understand it, and that is that the people shall ask for it. According to the proposition of the gentleman from McHenry [Mr. Church], the people have got to come before the Legislature and ask them to pass a general law for all the counties of the State so as to make it uniform, because we cannot legislate specially upon this matter; and after they have done that, they have got to go back, in each one of these counties, and get a vote of a majority of the people to sanction the act of the Legislature, or accept it, as the gentleman states. Now, I submit that the other way is shorter, and do not see how gentlemen who do not want this, can get up here and charge us, as the gentleman from Jo Daytess [MIr. Cary] has, with lrying to force his county to have it. I cannot see how it is, except upon the theory that he is an enemy of this whole project, and wants to kill it if he can. Mr. CARY. Mr. Chairman: I would ask the gentleman if the report did not at first provide that every county should be a part of the judicial system of the State, and if this system of extended jurisdiction would not have been'thereby fastened upon every county in the State? M~r. KING. Yes,J sir; but you killed that, and now you want to kill this section, as reported by the committee. takes from the circuit court such a s ha re of the business as is reasonable to suppose it will, it certainly will lessen the length of its terms, and every day the term of the circuit court is cut off, is one day that the jury fees are saved, to say the least, and the incidental expenses of carrying on the court; and it makes a larger saving than all that in the way of jail expenses in most of the counties, but still leaves the Legislature sufficient power over its proceedings and practice-to regulate its expenses and make it convenient for the people. It is just such a court as the people want; a convenient court that sits often during the year; a court which can be carried on for certain purposes. There is an amiple field here fbr the exercise of legislative discretion in regulating the mode of proceedings, etc. Mr. CUMMINGS. Mr. Chairman: I will ask the gentleman if under the old Constitution we could not have had just such court as is here asked for? Mr. BROMWELL. Mr. Chairman: I suppose so; but the trouble is with our Legislature that it will not act; and when it does act, it acts in a partial manner, in putting this sort of a court and that sort of a court in this county and that. What we want is a uniform court in the counties, but just the, kind of court should be left to the Legislature. It is idle to put in the Constitution that the Legislature may do this or do that, as it pleases, because they will let it alone and do noth ing, as much as they please, and that is what the people complain of. .Air. CARY. Mr. C(hairman: It seems to me that my friend from Coles [Mr. Bromwell] takes a curious view of economy. We have a majority of counties in the State which have terms of court twice or three times, and perhaps in some counties four or more times in a year. Now, does he propose to economize by suggesting, in addition to these, an increase of the number to a dozen? Mr. BRO3,IWELL. Mr. Chairman: When I proposed any number of terms a year for a court term, I said distinctly that the Legislature could fix it as they pleased-have none at all if they preferred. Mr. CARY. Mr. Chairman: I do not see that that helps the matter at all. It is proposed to give exclusive j urisdiction in all counties to county courts, in cases of debt, assumpsit trespass and replevin, to the amount of $500. Now, sir, every term there are likely to lbe at least one or two cases of this kind, and if there are I wish to know if it does not thus become incumbent upon such counties to summon a jury to try those cases, and thus create another uncalled for and useless expense. The circuit courts have aimple time to attend to this business, and[ I, sir, am in fAver of retaining this jurisdiction where it slow exists. ~It is unjust to inflict this county court system upon the ninety counties that may not desire it, in order to accommodate ten or a dozen who do desire it. And I do insist, sir, that it shall not be forced upon any counties that do not want it or need it. Some counties I know are against it. The county of Jo Daviess certainly does not want it. The gentleman fi'om Mctlenrv [Mr. Church], and gentlemen fronmSt,~phenson,' Ogle and s~ome other counties that I might nanivee, have told t a i s t i 1 1 I WEDNESDA.Y, CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION 1090 MoH 9, 1870. DEBATES AD PROCEEDINGS. 1091 Mr. TURNER. Mr. Chairman: I have done, and that they will be satisfied should not have said a word upon this with what I shall do. But if they ever branch of the judiciary article had I not should look up my record, I want them been quoted several times as being against to understand that when the question of this section, which. to a certain extent, whether or not they might have a county makes it necessary for me to state just court with extended jurisdiction was bewhat I am in favor of. fore the Committee of the Whole, I was If I could have adopted the report of entirely willing they should have it, when the Judiciary Committee without dotting they voted for it. an i or crossing a t, I would have done so, Mr. TINCHER. Mr. Chairman: I am believing in my heart that it was the best under the impression now, that the minds thing we could possibly get as a judicial of this committee are about made up, to system; believing, at the same time that sustain the original report with the it was not perfect, but that it came nearer amendment of the gentleman from Clinto meeting the wants of ail the people in ton [Mr. Buxton], and if everybody else the State than any other system which we is now willing to stop making speeches could devise. upon this question, I am, and we will But, sir, in regard to this question of come to a vote. extending the jurisdiction of county ["Question!" "Question!"] courts, I have frequently said in commit- Mr. HAINES, of Cook. I would like tee and out of committee that I did not to inquire what are we coming to a vote believe the people of Stephenson county upon? desired to have'a county court with this The CHAIRMAN. The Cleik will increased jurisdiction. Notwithstanding read the amendment of the gentleman this, I would have taken the report as it from Sangamon [Mr. Hay]. came from the committee; but now, that The Clerk read the substitute offered the amendment proposed by the gentle- by Mr. Hay, as follows: man from Clinton [Mr. Buxton] has been County courts shall continue to exist with adopted as a part of the section, it takes such jurisdiction as they now have under away all the object-'on I had to it. It general laws, until such jurisdiction shall be leaves it then in this position: that this c hanged by the General Assembly. But the leaves it then in this p General Assembly may hereafter classify the increasedjurisdiction can be obtained by counties of this State into two classes, and every county in the State by simply vot- provide for diminishing or increasing the juimg that they want it, and if my people risdiction of said courts, by laws uniform as deire it now they can vote for it, and if to the class of counties upon which such laws they do not desire it they can vote against shalloperate.S of C s s it. If five years hence they desire it they Mr HA ES of Cook. This is only par.tANS of Cok his amnmn.is teeaother can have an opportunity of voting again part of his amendment. Is there another and getting it. Therefore I am entirely Section eitee satisfied with the section as amended. The CHAIRMAN Secton eighteen Besides, there is another section that co- is the only one under consideration. ers another class of cases which obviatesred era another class of cases which obviates is the substitute for that which has been all the objections that have been made, eadsst u e of b r.s because of a failure to provide sufficient he substtte ered by Mr. ay was jurisdiction. not agreed to. The nineteenth section reads as folI ["Question!" "Question!"] henntetsetlows: asf Mr. WHEATON. Mr. Chairman: I lows: have a substitute for section eighteen. SEC. 19. The General Assembly may con- which I propose, it being in the present fer other jurisdiction upon county courts for Constitution. counties having more than fifty thousand IThe Secretary read the substitute offerpopulation, but such jurisdiction shall be The Secretary read the substitute olos unifor ed by Mr. b Wheaton, as follow: Now, I apprehend, until a county has SEC. 18. There shall be in each county a attained to a population of fifty thousand, court, to be called a county court. One counthe people will not desire any greater ty judge shall be elected by the qualified voters of each county, who shall hold his jurisdiction in their county courts than is Ioffice for four years, and until his successor is given by the eighteenth section. elected and qualified. The jurisdiction of It seems to me eminently fair that the said court shall extend to all probate and such people of any county which desire this other jurisdiction as the General Assembly increased jurisdiction in their county may confer, in civil cases, and such criminal courts, may have'~by a vote of a majori- cases as may be prescribed by law, where the cours, ay ave t b a ote f amajri-punishment shall not be capital. The judgesesaefrtepyetodetagis ty of the electors of the county; and where and clerks of county courts, in office at the the people of a county do not want it, adoption of this Constitution, shall hold they need not have it. It leaves the sub- their offices until the expiration of their re spective terms; and the county courts nowgon hconycuttipoe,o ject in the best possible shape, because it in existence shall have the same power and leaves it precisely where all questions of jurisdiction they now possess, until otherthis kind ought to be left-with the peo wise provided by law. ple of the several counties. The substitute was not agreed to. I have deemed this explanation neces- The CHAIRMAN. The question now sary, because I have been quoted fre- recurs upon the adoption of section quently as being opposed to this measure. eighteen, as amended. I desire that this committee may know Mr. SEDGWICK. Mjr. Chairman:- e precisely the position I do occupy, and [Question!" Question l",] desire also that my constituents may know) Mr. SEDGWICK. I believe I have how I stood on this as on every other the floor. question, when they look into my record, I move to strike out, commencing in if they ever should deem it necessary to do line six, after the word "assessment," the so-which I do not believe they ever will, following words: "but no; other original because I believe my constituency sent jurisdiction relatingto real estate." me here to assist in making such a Con- ["Question!" "Question!"] - stitution as my judgment should approve, Mr. CODY. I was just about to mqke and that they will accept what I do. I the same motion the gentleman from Dehave the vanity to believe this; I believe Kalb [Mr. Sedgwick] has made. I am they are entirely satisfied,aith what I strongly in favor of it. Without that amendment we t ake away f ro m th e coun ty court the power to order the sale of real estate for the payment of debts. It is one of the mnost important powers that court now has, and one of the most con venient powers, so far as the people are concerned. ~ Mr. BUXTON. I wouldj like to ask the gentleman if the clause conferring jurisdiction in all matters pertaining to the settlement of estates of deceased per sons, does not include orders for the sale of real estate for the payment of debts. Mr. CODY. I think it does not, sir, so long as we specially deprive a court of all jurisdiction in regard to real estate, except in proceedings for the collection of taxes and assessments. I think it is perfectly clear that, by this clause, which I desire shall be stricken out, we take away from the court all power in regard to real estate, except so far as the collection of taxes are concerned. As I was about to remark, when interrupted by the question of the gentleman from Clinton [Mr. Buxton], -he people desire that this power shall be retained. It is for the interest of the lawyers, perhaps, that it should not be retained, but the interests of the people are otherwise. In counties where we have but two terms of the circuit court in a year, if we are compelled to go into that court for orders to sell real estate for the payment of debts of deceased persons, it lengthens out the settlement of an estate at least six months, and nearly doubles the expense. The people are directly interested in this question, and, sooner or later, our widows and children will have au interest in the question we are considering, which we may not now feel,for our estates will have to pass through the hands of this court. It sems to me, sir, that it facilitates the settlement of estates; that it greatly reduce3 the expenses, to leave the power in the county court to make all orders necessary for the full setttlement of an estate, and that where it becomes necessary that a portion of the real estate shall be sold for the payment of debts, the power to make the order for that sale should remain in the county court. I only rise now because I believe that many gentlemen have the impression the gentleman from Clinton [Mr. Buxton] entertained, which is evidently erroneous, and because I desire it to be understood that by this last clause wfe take away the jurisdiction of that court in regard to selling real estate for the payment of debts against estates. I know some gentlemen are opposed to giving the county court this power, on the ground that it ought not to have to do with that matter; but it seems to me we are giving to this court jurisdiction in many matters of as nmch importance as the ordering the sale of real estate of deceased persons, where the necessity exists for the payment of debts. It has the power to appooinlt conservators to construe wvills, a-ad pass upon all the delicate questions that arise in relation to wills, and the distribution of the estates of deceased persons; and it seems to me those questions are of greater importance than the one under consideration. I no not desire to take up any time, but I do desire that this motion shall be understood, and that those members of the committee who desire that the power to make all necessary orders in the set*tlement of estates shall be retailed by M&ReH 9, 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1091 1092 CONSTITUTIONAL CO~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~YE~~~~~~~~~~Ti'O~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ WED~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~8DAY,~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ of a certain class of cases-a question of whether the jurisdiction of a court shall be $100 or $500. Such a proposition, I think, sir, is the height of absurdity. It would be an abdication of power that the people have confided elsewhere. The good sense of the people will scout at such an idea. They have entrusted the business of Constitution making to men whom they thought to have some qualifications for it, and they expect such a provision as this to be determined by us, or by the Legislature, whose proper business it is to det:rmine these questions. And for one, I should desire 0o be put upon the record as against any such provision as is contemplated in this eighteenth section. I call for a division of the question. Mr. BUXTON. Mr. Chairman: The gentleman can accomplish that object by moving to strike out. Mr. HAY. Mr. Chairman: I move, then, to strike out all after the seventh line. The CHAIRMAN. The question is first upon the amendment of the gentleman from McLean [Mr. Benjamin]. The Clerk read the amendment offered by Mr. Benjamin, as follows: Insert after the word "may" in the eighth line, the following: "Upon the recommendation of the board of county commissioners or the board of supervisors." Mr. HAINES, of Cook. Mr. Chairman: I would like to understand the theory of that amendment. The Clerk read section eighteen, as proposed to be amended by Mr. Benjamin, as follows: StE. 18. There s hall be elected, in and for each county, by the electors thereof, one judge and one clerk of the county court, whose terms of office shall be four years. County courts shall be courts of record, and shall have original jurisdiction in all matters of probate; settlement of estates of deceased persons; appointment of guardians and conservators, and settl ments of their accounts; in all matters relating to apprentices; and in proceedings for the collection of taxes and assessments, in all counties that may, upon the recommendation of the board of county commissioners or the board of supervisors, adopt the same by a majority of all the votes cast at any general election. The said county court shall also have original jurisdiction ir actions of debt, assumpsit, trover, replevin and trespass either to person or pe.rsonal property, where the amount claimed or value of the property in controversy does not exceed five hundred dollars; and of crimes and misdemeanors where the punishment shall not be capital, or confinement in the penitentiary Mr. KING. Mr. Chairman: I think I am favorable to the amendment. Its object is to give the county authorities power to call the election-is it not a Mr. BENJAMIN. That is all. Mr. KING. It substitutes the necessity of having the Legislature do it. Mr. HAINES, of Cook. Mr. Chairman: The amendment does not seem clear to me. This election, as I understand, shall not be called at all unless the county authorities recommend, and then it shall be called by them. Mr. BENJAMIN. The county authorities call the election. Mr. HAINES, of Cook. ["Question." "Question."] Mr. Chairman: I have the floor. It is my duty, I think, to explain my views, and as I have rights on this floor, I intend to maintain them, whether gentlemen like it or not. ["Go on." "Leave." "Permission."] I object to that amendment because my experience is that in our local legislatures, such as boards of supervisors, co mmon councils and county commissioners, thev dragoon the people into all sorts of operations through the interests and influence of rings, which the people would not be dragooned into if the authority was vested somewhere else. I object to the authority resting in that place. I believe if the election is to be called, it should be authorized by some other power, andi that should be the Legislature. When the people of a county desire this change they will come to the Legislature petitioning for the change, and it will then be authorized, if it is desired by a proper number of the inhabitants of the county. The Legislature giving the authority, of course will put forth the fiat, and if the people then choose to adopt it, all right; if they reject it, that is the end of it. They will not have a board of supervisors or county commissioners, who have local axes to grind in connection with rings, forcing this upon them. It must come tbrough the Legislature, representing the whole people on this floor. These are my objections to the amendment. The Clerk read section eighteen, as proposed to be amended by Mr. Benjamin, as follows: SEC. 18. There shall be elected in and for each county, by the electors thereof, one judge and one clerk of the county court, whose terms of office shall be four years. County courts shall be courts of record, and shall have original jurisdiction in all matters of probate; settlement of estates of deceased persons; appointment of guardians and conservators, and settlements of their accounts; it all matters relating to apprentices, and in' proceedings for the collection of taxes and assessments. In all counties that may, upon the recommendation of the board of county commissioners, or board of supervisors, adopt the same by a majority of all the votes cast at any general election, the said county court shall also have original jurisdiction in actions of' debt, assumpsit, trover, replevin and trespass, either to person or personal property, where the amount claimed, or the value of the property in controversy does not exceed five hundred dollars, and of crimes and misdemeanors where the punishment shall not be capital, or confinement in the penitentiary. The question being on the adoption of the amendment offered by Mr. Benjamin, a division was ordered. The committee divided, when the amendment was agreed to. Mr. HAY. Mr. Chairman: I now move to strike out all after the seventh line. Mr. CUMMINGS. Mur. Chairman: I am opposed to this division, as asked for by the gentlem~an fzrom Sangamon [Mr. Hay]. Wec have amended this section, and now a vote is called upon division, so as to have a vote first upon the section as reported bar the Judiciary Committee. It is taking advantage of the commzittee. It is virtually doing that which this committee does not wish to do, as expressed iby their vote. Will the Judiciary Comamittee seek to take advantage and to, by calling for a division, strike out a part of this section? If this motion is declared in order, I most assuredly shall have to vote against the section. If we plut the two together I am ready to vote for them, but I am not ready to vote for the section and take the chances of getting the amendment. I hope the gentleman will withdraw the motion to strike out. Mrn. HAY. I would inform the gentleman that it is not a muotion to strike out, but a motion for a divisions' 1092 CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION WEDNF,SDAY, county courts, may vote understandingly on this proposition. Mr. WALL. Mr. Chairman: I hope this amendment will not be adopted. I think I may say with entire safety that many abuses grow out of the power of the county courts to sell real estate for the payment of debts. Twice a year is quite often enough to afford opportunities to sell the real estate of deceased persons. If a court having such a power, sits oftener, it gives that many more chances to impoverish and eat up estates and enrich impatient creditors. Valuable property is subjected to sale upon pro.,ceedings that take place so quietly that no man knows anything about them, except those who are directly interested in the matter as creditors or attorneys. In many cases the proceedings are irregular, and titles arising from them are invalid. I think it not advisable to place such important powers in the county court. Mr. WHEATON. I will ask the gentlemen if that power is any more important than the power to send a man to prison, which is given here. Mr. WALL. Two wrongs do not make one right, and because the county court is invested with too great power, in one, I do not see that we should therefore, give it more power in another respect. This provision was put in here for the purpose of excluding the possibility of the county court selling the real estate of deceased persons. The CHAIRMAN. The question is on striking out the words 11 but no other original jurisdiction relating to real estate." The motion of Mr. Sedgwick, to strike out, was agreed to. Mr. BENJAMIN. Mr. Chairman: I have an amendment which I desire to offer. Insert after the word " may " in line eight, the followina clause.- 11 upon the recommendation of the board of county commissioners or board of supervisors." The latter part of the section will then read as follows: In all counties, that may, upon the recommendation of the board of county commissioners or the board of supervisors, adopt the same by a majority of all the votes cast at any general election. The said county court shall also have original jurisdiction in- actions of debt, assumpsit, trover, replevin and trespass, either to person or personal propert where the amount claimed or value of the MAROH 9, 1870. DEBATES API) PRO()EEDIGS. 1093 Constitution has been loaded from beginning to end with these restrictions that the people have not called for. Why not adopt the old Constitution-the principal part of it-as it stands on this subject? The principle set forth by the gentleman from Sangamon [Mr. Hay] is correct. Continue that which the people have tried, and been satisfied with for twenty years. Mr. UNDERWOOD. It seemsto me the remarks of the gentleman, in reference to the forms of oath, etc., are not now in order. iMr. TINCHER. He has been away some time. Give him an opportunity. [Laughter.] Mr. HAINES, of Lake. If there is anybody here who does not wish to hear me express the views of my constituents, they can withdraw. I have been a practicing lawyer ill the State of Illinois for a number of years, and I speak from experience. If there is any geitleman here who wants to put this provision in the Constitution, let him try it. He will have one-half of the profession and all their clients against him, voting against it. ["Question," "question."] Mr. WHEATON. Mr. Chairman: It seems to me that the amendment of the gentleman from Sangamon [MIr. Hay] is strictly in order. It is the only amendment that is pending, and the Committee of the Whole have the right to amend a section ad libitum. They can amend by striking out; they can amend by inserting; they can amend by striking out a portion of that which they have inserted, or in any way perfect the section before voting upon it finally. It is only upon the question of order that I desire to speak. It seems to me that, in that view of the case, the amendment of the gentleman from Sangamon [Mr. Hay] is in order. The CHAIRMAN. The question is upon the motion to strike out all after the seventh line in section eighteen. The motion was not agreed to. Mr. SEDGWICK. Mr. Chairman: I move to strike out the twelfth line and the words "hundred dollars." My object, as gentlemen, I suppose, will understand, is to not interfere with the General Assembly giving such amount of jurisdiction as they may see fit, nor limit them to five hundred dollars. I would like to know what good reason any gentleman can give why these courts should be limited to five hundred dollars. Mr. TINCHER. Why should justices' courts be limited to one hundred dollars? Mr. SEDGWICK. They should not be. I would like to ask the gentleman why, if I have a note for six hundred dollars in my pocket, I may not sue that note in the county court? Why should I be compelled, if these courts are for the benefit of the people, to wait until the circuit court sits, in order to sue it? I submit no reason can be given whatever. There are a number of courts in this State that have jurisdiction in civil-cases, nearly concurrent with the circuit courts, and I wish to leave the question with the Legislature. If they see fit to limit it to five hundred dollars, let them do so. If they see fit to extend it to one thousand dollars, let them do that. Mr. CUMMINGS. Then I rise to a point of order, Mr. Chairman. When the C ommittee of th e Whole have passedc upon a section, and a mended it, they cannot recede. They have to report it to the Convention. Mr. HAINES, of Lake. Mr. Chairman: I do not kn ow b ut what it might as well be stricken out, because it is of no earthly use to anybo dy here-none whatever. If these courts are good for anything they are good for all they call for, and they are good for the convenience of all the people. This class of courts has existed for twenty years. The jurisdiction has been conferred by special laws, but these conrts have been convenient for the people in certain ways-to take judgments by confession, for instance. It has been a convenience to have common law jurisdiction to a certain extent in these local courts; and now it is proposed to wipe them out entirely, divest them of this jurisdiction-this convenience of taking judgments in vacation-and why? Will any gentleman tell me why? Have the people called for it? There is a desire, sir, to have this Constitution adopted. It never will be adopted in this way. This provision can never be adopted. We have got to leave something to the General Assembly. If we do not we will reckon without our host if we count on the adoption of this Constitution. I have just come from the people and speak advisedly on the subject. They say, "You are legislating too much; you are tying up the Legislature you have adopted test-oaths that are a disgrace to the State of Illinois; you have accused the persons that we h-ve elected to represent us, of all sorts of offenses." We can never carry anything of the kind. What has transpired in the history of the judiciary of this State that we are to tie up these local judicial tribunals in this manner? Nothing in the world. Mr. BUXTON. I would like to ask the gentleman how they are tied up. Mr. YIAINES, of Lake. In the first place, sir, the first section limits them to probate jurisdiction and special proceedings relating to the estates of deceased persons. That is a limitation. The second section not only enumerates the common law actions, which we may at some time desire to abolish, but it confines this court to a certain class of criminal and civil actions, a nd then it limits them to five hundred dollars, which is all wrong. If the people are to have an organic law, they want a liberal one. They want one of some advantage to them. Where is the objection to going in and taking a judgment in one of these courts for one thousand dollars? There is none whatever. Wphere is the objection to selling or disposing of the estate of a deceased person through the aid of these courts? None whatever. These tribunals ale created by lawv, and the officials to preside over these courts are elected by the people. They will not perpetrate those trauds that gentlemen of the bar seem to insist they will. In the county in which I live, we have honest men, whom we have elected to these places, and trusted them therein for twenty years, and safely too. We are willing that counties which have this extended jurisdiction, should continue to have it, only we wanlt this should be a general law. If this were the onliy astonishing provision adopted, it might do; but ~is 274 Mr. BROWNING. Ir. Chairman: I rise to a point of order. I think the point of order that was made a while ago upon the amendment offered b r the gentleman from Sangamon [Mr. Hay] was well taken. This is an amendment which has been acted upon and adopted by the committee, and now we are going over it piecemeal, and moving to strike out line after line of that amendment. When will our work ever come to an end? I wish some gentleman who is more familiar with parliamentary practice than I, would give the Chair his views upon the subject. The gentleman from Cook, on the other side of the house [Mr. Coolbaugh], the gentleman from Stephenson liar. Turner] and the gentleman from Coles [Mr. Bromwell] are all familiar with parliamentary practice. I think that after we have adopted an amendment, it is not competent to strike out any part of it. Mr. HAINES, of. Lake. Do I understand, Mr. Chairman, that this has been adopted? Mr. BROWNING. Yes, sir; as an amendment to the original section. Mr. HAINES, of Lake. Then, what is the pending question? Mr. BRO WNING. It has been adopted as an amendment, but not as a whole. What it is proposed to strike out now is part of the amendment that has been made to the section. Mr. HAINES, of Lake. If this has once been adopted, it is not competent to strike anything out. If it is not adopted, it is competent to amend it. Mr. PERLEY. Mr. Chairman; I am sorry the gentleman from Adams [Mr. Browning] asked anybody to make a speech.. Let us vote on it. We can vote it downi. The CHAIRMAN. The question is upon the adoption of the motion of the gentleman from DeKalb [Mr. Sedgwick]. Mr. CUMMINGS. Mr. Chairman: This is contrary to all rule of the Committee of the Whole. When they have once adopted an amendmet, there is no power for them to recede, except by referring back to the Convention. The CHAIRMAN. The point of order is sustained. Mr. SEDGWICK. I appeal to the decision of the commnittee, because I know I am right, and I have a right to a vote on my amendment. If gentlemen are ready to vote against parliamentary usage, so be it. The CHAIRMAN. The question is upon the appeal from the decision of the Chair. The appeal was not sustained. The CHAIRIDIAN. The question is upon the adoption of the section. A division was ordered. The committee divided; when, there being thirty-four in the affirmativee and twenty in the negative, section eighteen was agreed to. The CHAIRMAN. The question recurs upon section nineteen. The Clerk read section nineteen, as follows: SE~C. 19. The General Assembly may confer other jurisdiction upon county courts for counties having more than fifty thousand population, but such jurisdiction shall be luniform. Mr. McDOWELL. Mr. Chairman: I move that section nineteen be postlponed 31AP.011 93 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1093 1094 CONSTITUTIONAL CONWENTION WEDNESDAY, until after the consideration of section thirteen. Mr. BROWNING. I suggest to the gentleman that we had better go through with the county court article. The CHAIRMAN. The question is upon the substitute of the gentleman from McHenry [Mr. Church], for section nineteen. The Clerk read the substitute offered by Mr. Church, as follows: SEC. 19. The General Assembly may provide, by law, for extending the jurisdiction of county courts of counties of not less than thousand population. to the full extent of jurisdiction permitted by the section providing for county courts; the jurisdiction and practice in which county courts of extended jurisdiction, shall be uniform in all such last mentioned counties, but the provisions of this section shall not be in force in any county, until a majority of the electors of such county shall, at a general election, vote in favor of s uch extended jurisdiction. Mr' CHURCH. Mr. Chairman: A majority of the committe e not having ad op t ed th e substitute which I offered for section eighteen, I do not desire to ask a vo te upon se ction nineteen, as that necessarily depended on section eighteen. I, therefore, will ask leave to withdraw it. The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman has leave. The question recurs on section nineteen. The Clerk read section nineteen, as follows: d3EC. 19. The General Assembly may confer other jurisdiction upon county courts for counties having more than fifty thousand population, but such jurisdiction shall be unifbrm. Mr. HAINES, of Lake. Mr. Chairman: I move to strike out section nineteen. It is of no earthly use, whatever. If we are to have county courts, let us have uniformity. The motion was not agreed to. The CHAIRMAN. The question re curs on the adoption of the section. Section nineteen was agreed to. The CHAIRMAN. The question recurs on the adoption of section twenty. The Clerk read section twenty, as follows: SpEC. 20. No grand juries shall be impanneled in county courts, but offenses shall be prosecuted therein in such other manner as may be provided by law. Said courts shall have exclusive appellate jurisdiction in all cases of appeals from justices of the peace and police magistrates, except in cases of contested elections, forcible entry and detainer, and forcible detainer: _Provided, that in cities in which inferior courts of record are, or may hereafter be established, appeals fronm j ustices of the peace and police magistrates may be taken to such inferior courts. Mr. HAINES, of Lake. Mr. Chairman: I move to strike out all after the word "law,"' in the second line, which proposes to dispense with the grand jury. I propose to retain something in the judiciary article under which the people may have some protection. ["sQue~stion,...question."] The motion to strike out was not agreed The CHAIRMAN. The question recurs upo n the adoption of section twentytwo. T he Clerk react section twenty-two, as follows: SEt. 22. The judges and clerks of county courts, in office at the adoption of this Constitution, shall hold their offices until the expiration of their respective terms, and the county courts now in existence shall have the same power and jurisdiction they now possess until the judges and clerks of county courts provided for by this Constitution, shall be elected and qualified. Section twenty-two was agreed to. COURTS OF COMMON PLEAS. The CHAIRMAN. The question now is upon section twenty-three The Clerk read section twenty-three as follows: SEC. 23. The General Assembly may establish courts of record in this State, to be styled courts of common pleas, of uniform organization and jurisdiction, in districts of one or more counties; which, when established, shall be substituted in the place of county courts, and shall exercise all their powers and jurisdiction, and such other jurisdiction as may be conferred by law. The judges and clerks of said courts of common pleas shall be elected in such districts and have such qualifications, and receive such compensation, and be paid in such manner as may be provided by law. Mr. BUXTON. Mr. Chairman: I move\ to strike out section twenty-three. The questicn being upon the motion of Mr. Buxton to strike out section twentythree of the report of the Judiciary Committee, a division was ordered. The committee divided, when the motion was not agreed to. Mr. BUXTON. Mr. Chairman: I would like to state my reasons ["Object," "object."] Mr. TINCHER. Mr. Chairman: I think, sir, there should be no objections to a man's stating his reasons. Mr. CUMMINGS. Mr. Chairman The CHAIRMAN. Does the gentleman from Clinton [Mr. Buxton] yield? Mr. CUMMINGS. Mr. Chairman: I imove to strike out, commencing with the first line, down to the word "law" in the fifth line. Mr. BUXTON. Mr. Chairman: We have already provided for circuit courts. We have provided for county courts havidg common law jurisdiction to the amount of five hundred dollars, and the only object of having courts of common pleas would be to have another court either of cool dinate jurisdiction with the circuit courts, or inferior jurisdiction. If we wanted more courts of co-ordinate jurisdiction, the same object could be obtaine d by reducing the size of the circuits and having more circuit judges. I think the adoption of section eighteen, in regard to the jurisdiction of county courts, certainly makes courts enough in this State. The facilities for courts are already increased one-half by the provisions of this article, that we have adopted so far, and I think it entirely useless to have another court like the one proposed, which is a second edition of the circuit court. Mr. TINCHER. Mr. Chairman: I am inclined to think we are getting quite enough of courts, but we certainly want enough courts to discharge the business. I think this provision has been made to meet a necessity that may occur. The time may come when in many counties the probate business will be all that one man can attend to. Then we can dis-pense with these county ~our'ts, except as Mr. BUXTON. I think the section ought to be amended so as to give appellant jurisdiction from justices of the peace, only in such counties as shall adopt the increased jurisdiction under section eighteen. Mr. RICE. Mr. Chairman: I agree with the gentleman from Clinton [iMr. Buxton]. The amendment ought to be passed so as to make the section harmonize with what has been alftdy done. to. The CHAIRMAN. The question is upon the adoption of section twenty-one. The Clerk read section twenty-one, as follows: SEC. 21. Appeals and writs of error shall be allowed from final determinations of county courts, as may be provided by law. Section twenty.one was agreed to. 1, CONSTITUTIONAL CONYENTION WEDNESDAY, 1094 to. M~~~~~~~~~~~~oH 9, 1870. DEBATES AXD PROCEEDI~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~GS. 10~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~5~~~ ness so that it might be separated, leaving it in the hands of the probate judge ex clusively, while this common pleas court might be established, and do the common law business for one or more counties. Mr. BENJAMIN. MIr. Chairman: I would suggest to the gentleman whether that objection would not be obviated by adding after the words "county courts," the words "having the jurisdiction pro vided for by section eighteen." Mr. TINCHER. Mr. Chairman: Upon reflection, my judgment is that we had better strike out the section, because it becomes a sort of traveling probate and common pleas court; and unless we adopt this system now and adjust ourselves to it with our probal;e business, the probabil ities are that we never could adjust our courts to correspond with what we might desire with reference to our probate busi ness, under this common pleas court. I regret exceedingly that the proposition has not been made to provide that coun ties of forty or fifty thousand population, shall have a probate judge, whose duty it shall be to attend to probate business only. mIcr. SPRINGER. You will find that in the twenty-sixth section. Mr. TINCHER. Well, I'll vote this out any way. [Laughter.] Mr. WALL. Mr. Chairman: This section was put in by the Judiciary Com mittee, to meet what it was supposed would very soon be a necessity in the State. It is well known by every one that there is a necessity for some sort of a court, while relieving the circuit court of a great deal of its minor litigation, that will be of such a character as to give sat isfaction to the public in its rulings and decisions. Those who represent the smaller counties insist that it will be im practicable to give such power to county courts without making them very expen sive to the people, and that such a want would be met by a court of common pleas, which might be arranged in districts of one or more counties, according to the population and business of the counties, and that in that way the wants of the larger counties and the smaller ones might both be accommodated at the same time. A majority of the Judiciary Committee were not willing to strike out the increased jurisdiction of the county court, or to establish the court of common pleas; but finally, to meet the views of all gentlemen on that committee, it was agreed to provide that the General Assembly, in its discretion, when experience and necessity should demonstrate the importance of it, might establish a court of common pleas, and that that court, when established, should take the jurisdiction of the county court, and such other jurisdiction as might be given it. If experience shows that there is no necessity for it, if experience shall show that the power we authorize the Legislature to give to the county court can be safely exercised by the county court, then the Legislature will never establish the court of common pleas. But if experience shall show what I believe will be the fact, that these county courts in the future will be as unsatisfactory as they have been in the past, then, sir, we will want just such a power as this in our General Assembly to meet the necessity. This court of common pleas is provided for only in a conditional way. It will be 31ARCIR 9) 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS.. 1095 to probate business, and create this court of common pleas, if I understand the ob ject of it. I know that in Indiana the common pleas court has worked well and satisfactorily to the people. While I would not favor putting this immediate ly into operation, I would favor its being retained in the Constitution, that the peo ple may avail themselves of it by and by if they feel so disposed. I think it is a wise provision. I hope the section will be adopted as reported. Mr. BUXTON. Mr. Chairman: Will the gentleman yield f6r a question? Mr. TINCHER. Mr. Chairman: I do not yield for a question from the gentle man from Clinton [Mr. Buxton]. I have been deceived by him several times, and I am not going to risk it any more. [Laughter.] Mr. BUXTON. Mr. Chairman: I do not want to talk about this slibj ect any further, but the gentleman from Vermilion [Mr. Tincber] is certainly mistaken when he says this court, if established, will leave the county courts with probate j urisdiction. It will entirely root them out. This section provides that the common pleas court, when established, shall be substituted for county courts, and exercise all their powers and jurisdiction, and such other jurisdiction as may be conferred by law. Mr. ROBINSON. Mr. Chairman: I am opposed to striking out this section twenty-three. - Two or three reasons occur to me why it should be retained. It may cover one or two necessities tb at may arise in the future, if they do not now exist. And particularly am I opposed to it on account of a necessity which I con. ceive exists for such a court at the pres. ent time. The provision was inaugurated in this report, I dare say, as a kind of compromise to the small counties in the southern portion o'f the State. In the sections adopted, we have provided for a county court. I apprehend it will be found when this section is put'liato operation, that the county court here provided for will be a court of too much magnitude in a great number of counties, and will entail a great deal more expense than is necessary. While it may be necessary for large counties, many counties do not need it. This provision allows these counties to asgo. established only in case experience shall demonstrate its necessity. We do not establish it absolutely; we do not Place it upon the people, nolen8, volens; we do not s i-y the next Legislature shall estab lish such a court, but simply that in the ,event of experience demonstrating its ne cessity, they shall have the power to do it. Now, it is wise, in my judgment, to leave just as Luuch power as possible in the hands of the General Assembly, in these matters. The State is growiing growing rapidly; its business is changing; all its wants are changing; its judiciary wants, especially, are constantly increas ing and extending and undergoing a change. If we make a Constitution that is flexible, it will answer the purpose of the State for a half a century or a whole century. If we make a Constitution that is inflexible, that cannot be changed to meet the necessities of the people, we shall make one that will, of necessity, be ephemeral and short lived. All I ask is, that this section may be left in the article so that, if the Legislature shall find such a court needed, they can provide for it. Mr. TRUESDALE. I would like to ask the gentleman whether the General Assembly is authorized, by this section, to establish this court in any particular part of the State, without establishing it for all. Mr. WALL. No, sir. The section provides that the courts shall be of uniform organization and jurisdiction. Mr. HAINES, of Lake. Mr. Chairman: It wao supposed that we had come here for the purpose of lessening the burdens of the people. I spent the day, before yesterday in Chicago, and, as they understa,id it, we have created seven distinct courts for thei-n in that city, and at least five in every county in the State; and if this does not open the door for additional taxation, I would like to see an institution thac does more effectually. We are creating officers here to feed upon the taxes of the people, who are now complainidg everywhere that taxes are too high. One moment we are going to tie up the Legislature so that they cannot do anything, and the next moment we are going to give thein power without limitatiOD, to create increased burdens to eat our substance. 1096 ()'OXSTITUTIONAL CONYETIO WEDNESDAY, lieve there are men in every county in the State who are qualified to determine the judicial questions arising in the county courts, under the jurisdiction we have conferred on them. Perhaps one man as judge of the court of common pleas can transact more busi- ness than he would as judge of a county court. I do not say that is so, one way or the other, but I do insist upon it, that we have had county courts established in the State for a long time, that they have proved in some degree satisfactory, and I think the people will be very unwilling to see them abolished. I suppose that a man living in a county and knowing its various interests, is a little better qualified to administer the affairs of that county than if he lived out of it; and even though this system should cost a little more than the common pleas system, I apprehend that the people having had the advantage of the former would be very glad to have it continued. Both systems are not needed. It is entirely useless in our Constitution to duplicate every set of courts; and I believe that the report of the Judiciary Committee has done that almost through and through; has almost duplicated the whole system of courts. I think we have already, in our action on the county court, made the jurisdiction quite sufficient, and prepared for officers who will be able to administer the law in those counties wherein they have jurisdiction; and that that jurisdiction will be amply sufficient for, at least, the present generation. I here wish to remark, that if this Convention had, in the first instance, undertaken to make a Constitution for the people of this century, instead of for the people of the next century, they would probably have been through their business before now. Mr. BROWNING. Mr. Chairman: I desire to state how and why this section came to be reported by the Judiciary Committee, prefacing what I say, however, by remarking, in reply to the genthle man who has just taken his seat, that he is laboring under a misapprehension in supposing we are duplicating anything. We are not; nor are we putting it in the power of the General Assembly to duplicate anything. We are leaving it in the discretion of the General Assembly to substitute one system of courts for another, if the people shall become dissatisfied with the system which we put in operation, and shall express a preference for a different one. I wish, also, before I go any further, to ask my friend from Lake [Mr. Haines] a question-whether he is in favor of imposing any restrictions whatever upon legislative power? Mr. HAINES, of Lake. Yes, sir. Mr. BROWSING. I would then ask tecm whether he is in favor of leavingc anvthing whatever to legislative discretion? Mr. HAINES, of Lake. Yes; the gentleman has heard what I said. I wish to be judged by what I have said on the subject. Mr. BROWNING. I did not well understand, but I understand now. I amc glad to find the gentleman is perfectly in accord with the rest of us, and he ought not to have scolded as he did. That is exactly what we are doing in the article we have reported; we are imposing limi tations in some cases, on the exercise of I t e e CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION WEDNESDAY, 1096 legislative power, where past experience has shown us it is likely to be abused; and in other matters which may be fairly trusted to legislative discretion, we leave that discretion with them. That is just what the gentleman from Lake [Mr. Haines] is in favor of, and what I presume we are all in favor of, for it is certainly the wise course to pursue. But to return to the section under discussion. It was inserted at the urgent request and earnest solicitation of the gentleman from Clark [Mr. Scholfield] who is not now here'to defend it, and upon the representation of himself and other gentlemen from the portion of the State in which Clark county is situated. He said he had observed the working of this system in a neighboring State for years; that these courts had been substituted for the county courts there, and the jurisdiction of the counts courts transferred to them; that the operation of the court had given universal satisfaction in the portion of the State to which he referred, and that he had no doubt that the time would come in this State when the people would desire to substitute a court of that description for the county court, which, in my opinion, is better suited to their present wants. The system entails no additional expense-not another farthing of expense, as it provides for the creation of no additional office or officer, but only leaves it with the General Assembly, the representatives of the people, as they might come fresh from the people, advised of their wishes, to exercise their discretion to substitute the common pleas for another system of courts. This being the case, the committee thought there was no serious objection to inserting the section in the article. I have not one atom of preference as to whether the section be adopted or rejected, except that a friend who is absent would feel aggrieved if it were struck out: and as it can do no possible harm to retain it, I shall vote against striking out. Mr. CHURCH. Mr. Chairman: If the county courts had not been degraded by the section that has been adopted, I would apprehend no danger of the General Assembly ever creating these courts of common pleas, if left to the discretion of that body. But, sir, with the section as it now stands, if it be concurred in by the Convention, there is no power in the General Assembly to ever add any jurisdiction to any county court in the State, except what is provided in the section just adopted, which is very limited. Perhaps that m~ay have been one of the inducemnents for degrading the county courts, thereby rendering it necessary that some other intermediate court should be created below the circuit courts, to exercise the jurisdiction the General Assembly have from time to time heretofore conferred upon the county courts, thereby affording plain and chleap remedies. But, sir, if we should concur in that amendment, and should leave the county courts degraded as they are, without power in the Legislature to add to their jurisdiction, it would mzake it necessary either to drive all the business to be done into the Lcircuit courts, subject to its delays and Xexpenses, except what is conferred upon ;the county courts by these sections, or to create these intermediate courts, or small circuit courts more properly called. But, sir, believing that ~hat will not be 't the ultimate condition in wvhich the Con. we were to have to explain, it might be' done; but it is not. Here is the gentleman from Wayne [Mr. Hanna] says the: whole south part of the State are going to defeat the Constitution, because there is a provision in it they do not like. There are some provisions which will be against certain corporations. They will complain of and point out these things that may be justly complained of, to carry a point of their own, and the people will vote against them and vote down the whole. Now, if we are going to limit the Legislature, let that be our policy before the people. Then we will have a policy to submit our work upon. Now we have none. The position here is to increase the expense of the judiciary. The j udiciary is burden enough upon the people already. The gentleman from Coles [Mr. Bromwell] says the grand jury alone costs several thousand dollars a year in most of the counties of the State. Here we are multiplying grand juries with other expenses. I do not expect to practice in any of these courts much, unless I come in as defendant. I do not sue anybody, but I do not want to pay any more taxes as a citizen, neither do my constituents. Our taxes are double what they were last year. What will they be under this provision?, Mr. WALL. Air. Chairman: I am sorry that the Constitution is now about to be beaten for the ten thousandth time. I trust the gentleman from Lake [Mr. Haines] will find, when he goes home, that he is mistaken. The objection he makes is, that we are making an additional court to eat out the substance of the people. The objection is not well founded, and the gentleman must know it. If he does not know it it is because he has not fully examined the question. The county court will be practically set aside and be no longer a burden upon the people if the common pleas is established. Now, sir, the court of common pleas, with its thirty or forty judges in the State, cannot possibly be so expensive as the county courts with its one-hundred and two judges; and when the gentleman tells me that this provision will entail additional expense upon the people and make an expensive feature, that will break downl this system, I tell him that he does not know anything about the subject. Mr. WASHIBURN. Mr. Chairman: I think, after all, that whether we have this court of common pleas or not is not so much a question of economy. I can appreciate the arguments of the gentleman from Richland [Mr. Robin son], and the gentleman front Perry [Mr. Wall]. I believe they apprehend that there are some counties which have no persons in them who are qualified to de termine the judicial questions which masy arise in the county courts, and in order to supply this want there are other counties which will charitably furnish judges (as judges of courts of common pleas) to those counties which have not the proper material to make them. Mr. WALL. I disclaim having taken that position, Mr. Chairman. I made no such point. Mr. ROBINSON. And so do L. Mr. WASHBURN. Tha~is the point as I understand it, in the case, and I be MAROII 9. 1870. DEBATES AD PROCEEDINGS. 1097 t people, jealous of their old rights and customs, will continue to elect the same class of men probate judges. Then our - practice must necessarily be simple. We 1 can have no pleadings, but all business - will be carried on as heretofore, under an f enlarged jurisdiction of these courts. All I desire is, that our Legislature be X not so completely tied hand and foot, that when we find we are burdened by our I county courts, that the people are still dis posed to elect the same class of probate L judges, that business becomes clogged, (they being absolutely unable to per foirm the duties and functions of their offices), we may not have some means of escape, of supplanting these courts and organizing courts of higher dignity and character, with judges learned in the law to discharge the duties of the office. Again, I ask, why not leave something to the Legislature? From the manner we are proceeding I think it would be the shorter cut for us, to, instead of restricting the Legislature in all directions in direct terms, sit down and write a Constitution, stating what the Legislature may do. I protest against this want of confidence in the L(gisla ture. I protest against dwarfig the Leg islature, and saying we, and only we, are competent to mark out a line of policy to be fo,llowed for, perhaps, twenty years. We have passed by the section relating to circuits, and the past discussion indi cates that it is uncertain what we shall do when we return to it. The proposi tion there is to reduce very materially the number of circuit judges. That would make it still more difficult to promptly transact the judicial business, in connecti(on with the dwarfed condi tior of our probate courts. Then what relief will there be in time to come, if we strike out this safety clause in the Consti tution? What danger is there in leav iiag something to future General Assem blies? I will not, on every question touching the powers of the Legislature, presume that we are to be represented by thieves and robbers. I will not, in every discussion, cast a reproach on the mem bers of this Convention and the people of Illinois, and in advance, upon those they may send to represent them in the Gen eral Assembly, by presuming that at the very earliest opportunity, they will set aside the courts which the people are satisfied with, that run smoothly, that can and do transact the public business promptly and efficiently, and establish other courts, and thrust their hands into the pockets of the people for the purpose of paying a few dollars additional expenses, that may be necessary for the purpose of running these new courts. The CHAIRMAN. The question is upon the amendment of the gentleman from Fulton [Mr. Cummings], to strike out all of the section down to the word "law," in the fifth line. Mr. HAYES. Mr. Chairman: I offer the following amendment. The Clerk read the amendment offered by Mr Hayes, as follows:n Add at the end of the section the words, "but no part of said compensation or the expenses of said courts shall be paid out of the State treasury." Mr. CUMMINGS. Mr. Chairman: I rise to a point of order. If the amendment of the gentleman from Cook [Mr. Hayes] is to insert, the motion to strike out takes precedence. vertion will leave the county courts, but that, on the contrary, they will leave the county courts in a situation where they may be dealt with by the General Assem bly, and j urisdiction given to them, I shall oppose, as I did in Committee on the Ju diciary, the adoption of these courts of common pleas. Mr. GOODHUE. Mr. Chairman: When I came into this hall this afternoon, I came in with a fixed resolution that I would not detain the committee upon this or any other section of this report. I assured some of my friends that I would say noth iD-g in relation to anything in this report or any part of it. But I do not believe that the resolution I wade, was in accord ance with my duties as a member of this Convention. And I therefore rise, Mr. Chairman, to protest as earnestly as I can, against the proposition to strike oat this section. It is well understood Mr. Chairman, and gentlemen of this committee, that our dockets in the northern part of this State are terribly burdened, and notwith standing the declaration which has been made by gentlemen from the southera portion of State, that their circuit j udges can enlarge their circuits, and yet not materially inconvenience or burden them, we have been told by many of these gen tlemen, some in private conversation, and some on the fli)or of the Convention, that the dockets are, as I have said of ours, overburdened. I protest, Mr. Chairman, against the spirit manifested by some gen tlemen upon this floor. I protest, sir, against the spirit of withdrawing confi dence from the Legislature in every possi ble direction. I protest against the as sumption on the part of those in favor of striking out this section, that leaving the subject to the Legislature is forcing this court on the people of the State. Those gentlemen who insist that this section shall be stricken out, argue as if they believe, that unless it be stricken out, the first Legislature WLII at once strike down our county courts, and give us courts of common pleas throughout the State. This is one of the sections, Mr. Chair man, to which I propose to cling, with some little hope that, when we become embarrassed in our county courts, there will be some way of escape under the Constitution of this State. . What I am afraid of, sir, is this: The people are always jealous of their rights, and it is proper they should be so. They have beenl ill the habit of electing good and substantial men, yet mern without any legal qualifications,, for probate judges; and thia extended jurisdiction, unless a different class of men are elected as such judges, merely amounts to an enlarged jurisdiction of magistrates throughout the State; and in accordance with what I conceive to be the narrow polity of some gentlemen here, it seems to me it would be wise for us to go one or two steps further, and say all the judicial business of Illinois, hernceforth and forever, shall be discharged by police magistrates and justices of the peace —dispensing with all the burdens necessary for the running of the courts, and for the speedy transaction of the judicial business of the country. In some parts of this State we have been in the habit of electing good and substantial men, but not men of lega qualifications. I apprehend that W ~75 i t e c e a c t t i t t I I I t t i t t t i t r s t i t t I e 3fARCIE[ 9, 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDING8. 109T The CHAIRMAN. The point of order is sustained. Mr. HAYES'. Then I will withdraw my amendment until the other is voted upon. The CHAIRMAN. The question is upon the motion of the gentleman from Fulton [Mr. Cummings], to strike out. The motion was not agreed to. Mr. HAYES. Mr. Chairman: I now offer my amendment again. The Clerk read the amendment offered by Mr. Hayes, as follows: Add at the end of the section the words, "but no part of Paid compensation or the ex penses of said courts shall be paid out of the State treasury." Mr. HAYES. I offer that amendment, ir, in order to prevent the dadger that I see would exist without it, if this double circuit court system should be created in the State. In the section relating to the circuit judges, we have provided certain restric tions on the power of the L(igislature to create circuits. We provide, for example, that no circuit shall have less population than 90,000. Mr. WHEATON (in his seat). That has.uot been adopted yet. Mr. HAYES. But it has been report ed in that way by the committee. If 7e adopt this section Without aDy restric tions, it will enable the Legislature to disregard the restrictions relatidg'to cir cu.'t judges, make a hundred circuit j udges, if they choose to do so, and pay them out of the State treasury. This section has not been considered and discussed, so far as I know, by the Committee on the Judiciary. It was a proposition -written out by one of the members of the committee, which was presented, read and adopted, without any discussion at all. Mr. UINDERWOOD. This was discussed a good many times before the gentleman was present in the committee, and then it was afterwards proposed as a compromise., Mr. HAYES. I was present at the time it was introduced the last time, when there was no discussion, and I supposed that it had not beed perfected by the deliberatioi)s of the committee. But it occurs to me that very great powers are here given to the General Assembly in respect to these courts. There 1098 COST1TUTIONAL COTION WDEsDAY, Now, sir, my experience has been this — that we have not been able in my county to try any chancery cases for five years, with one single exception. All the other cases we have tried by a special master in chancery in some jury room We have never been able to get to the chancery docket, and I am tolti that it is so in other counties in my district. Now, I am looking forward to some time in the future, when, if we find that this county court system does not work well, we can supersede that county judge by electing a judge of the court of common pleas, and asking the Legislature to give him j turisdiction, in addition to what this section gives him, of all our chancery )business; and by that means we will have the circuit court to determine all criminial and common law cases, which I think, unless muy district is lessened, will always be su fficient to take our judge pretty much all his time. If we should see fit to do that at any time, and this amendment of the gentleman from Cook [LMr HEayes] should be adopted, it would compel us to pay that judge sitting on the bench, for the purpose of trying all these probate cases and these chancery cases, out of the county treasury. That would not be fair. If we mean to do that, I will say what I think would be fair for the Legislature to authorize the State to pay one half of that judge's salary, and for the counties composing the circuit to pay the other half. That is the ground upon which I oppose this amendment. I am looking forward to the time when my district will need this court of common pleas, and I suppose the same may be true with reg oard to nearly every northern county in the State. The time will come in the southern counties, when they get railroads and their country developed, that they will need just such things as we need. I see no necessity for our so hampering the Legislature by preventiLnga them in all time to come from providing for these urgent cases that may arise. If we we were passing an act here, such as the Legislature passes, which could be re pealed, it would be a different thing; but we are laying down a law which will govern the people for fifty years. We should so provide that the Legislature should have the power, if they see fit to exercise it, to establish these courts. Mr. SKEINNER. MIr. Chairman: If the court of common pleas is established, it must be by act of the General Assem bly, and it may have such jurisdiction as the General Assembly shall confer-general equity jurisdiction, general common law jurisdiction and general criminal jurisdiction. Whether it will ever be created or not will depend upon the will of the people in future, as expressed through the General Assembly. But that kind of court ought to be at the expense of the State. The administration of jus tice is a burden upon the State should be a burden upon the State treasury, es pecially where a court has the jra rinsdic, tion that this provision of the article au thorizes, a jurisdiction equal to the juris diction of the circuit court, in addition to the probate jurisdiction of the county court. Shall it be said that a court hav ing that kind of jurisdiction, shall be at the expense of the counties in which it is held? Circuits or districts may be crea ted, and does the gentleman propose that 1098 CONSTITTJTIONAL CONVENTION WF,DNESDAY, Now, I offered that amendment in order to prevent any misunderstanding, in order to show that these courts of common pleas are to t;,ke the place only of the local inferior courts-the County courtsand with that amendment I shall make no particular objection to the plan, althougti I do not really think it is neces.sary. I propose the amendment to save the State treasury. It is verv evident that, as this section now stands, it is proposed to burden the treasurv with the cost of from twenty-five to oe hundred circuit judges, in addition to the regular circuitcourt system, -%,hich would be an expense of front one hundred thou saiid dollars to two hundred thotsand dollars per annum. I do not think the people of this State desire snch a court, increasing the expense of the State government; and if we are to have this additional court which may be useful in some counties, let it be paid ft)r by the localities benefited, and not saddled upon the State treasury. Mr. KING. Mr. Chairman: Suppos-, we had these courts established as provided, in some counties, where there is more business than the circuit court can transact, that j urisdictioa were to be given by the Legislature to the court of common I)Ieas, in chancery business, ai%d the Legiblature should provide that half of the judge's salary should be paid out of the county treasury, and the other half out of the State Treasury. Would not that be a fair proposition? lvlr. HA.YES. I do not think it would be a fair, proposition, for this reason: We have a circuit court system which is c —tpaIble of ii3definite extension. If, in one county, one circuit court judge is not enough, we can increase the number until we li;*ve a sufficient number, and there is therefore no necessity in any county in the State to creale another and a different kind of court, in order to give them the benfits of a circuit court; but if they desire, in any county of the State, a local tribunal of a differedt character from that which prevails throughout the State, I think it would be unwise to provide that a part of the expense of it should be bur dened upon the State, because it opens a doortoanimmenseexpeuditure. Itopen, thedoorto thecreatit)tiof a great num ber of offices, such as we have seen here where a court of such i Lirisdiction is created, the loc,ility shall pay the expense and not the State It would be departlug from all precedent, and very siugular indeed, Leave all with the General Asqembly. First, will they create such a court; and secondly, what jurisdiction will they confer on the c,)urt? Thirdly, how shall the expenses of the court be bi)rue ., The General Assemblv that moves in this matter wil I be far better fitted to judge thaii this Convention. I am opposed to any amendment. Mr. IIA.Y. Mr. Chairmaia: I concur with the gentleman from Adains [,Mr. Skinner] that if this section is retained, the amendment of the gentleman from Cook LNlr. Ilayes] ought riot to be attached to it. In case of courts constituted, a-, it is proposed to constitute these, for several counties, and having the j tirisdictiou that such courts would have if constituted, the expense of them ou,ht to be borne out of the State treasury, undoubted ty. But, sir, I am disposed to think we would act advisedly in strikii)g out this section. We ought to lo, k at the effect of the schei-ne of courts that we propose by this article-whether we are liot presenting to the people too formidable an one. I know it does not necessarily follow that because we leave tl-ils to the Legislature to adopt in their discretion, it will adopt such a scheme of courts; but if it is put forward as a scheme, that the L(-gi,slature may adopt in its discretion, there is a very strong disposition to argue amongst that class of people who are seeking for ol-)jections to the Constitution, that it will follow that the L(-gislat-ire will adopt them, and we are to recollect that very strong iifluedce will probauly be brought to bear on the Legislature to cause them to. It is a chance for additional office. It is multiplvitig chances for (,,flice. Now I do not yet despair that when we go into CODVeDtii)D, of adopting some practicable scheme for the enlargement of the jurisdiction of the countv courts, in counties where it is necessary. We have practically diminished the jurisdiction of that court, by the section we have adopted, and prevented the enlargement Of it hereafter. I thilik the scheme of referriD it to a vote of the eo ie is rac MARCII 9, 1870. DEBATES ANI) I'ROCEEDIGS. 1099 Mr. HAINES, of Cook. Mr. Chairman: I did say to the Judiciary Committee antd I think the honorable chairman of that committee will bear me out in this that that which the Cook county delega. tion were unanimous upon, the c'ommittee refused to adopt, and that which they were not unanimous about the committee did adopt. Mr. SKINNER. Mr. Chairman: I will say to the gentleman that I have not been accustomed to regard the Cook countv delegation as unanimous. I ask the gentleman whether the pro. vision, in relation to the Cook c, unty courts do not provide that all fees of officers shall be paid into the county or city treasury? Then, of course, the offi cers must be paid salaries. They are paid salaries out of those feet,, and is it not true that these fees amount, in one case, to some eighty thousand dollars or more? Mr. HAINES, of Cook. I was speaking of the amendment of the gentleman b r om Cook [Mr. Hayes], my colleague. I have objected to this multiplicity of courts, and have stated that I thought there was some justice in the amendment of my colleague. I do not say that I ant prepared to adept any particular thing now. But I think there is justice in the amendment. I shall vote against the proposition for multiplying c, urts; and I shall vote to adhere to the old system as nearly as we can. Mr. HAYES. Mr. Chairman: I find that my amendment is not acceptable to the friends of the section. They prefer to take their chaices on the sectio)n with out it, as I learn from the gentleman from Jersey [Mr. King] and others. The object of the amendment was that it might be clearly understood that this system of courts was not to be another circuit court system to be imposed on the State. As gentlemen are not willing to amend the proposition in that form, 1, for one, will vote against the section. It was onjly with many doubts as to its expediency that I waq willing to acquiesce in the section, if properly restricted. Now, I prefer to withdraw my amendment, and vote against it. I think the argument that more power should be left in the hands of the Legis ature c Ales with a bal grace from a Convention called to restrict the General Assembly. When we go home the people will not ask us "What money have you spent?" but "What have you authorized If he eleatin fom ookcouty ro-the General Assembly to spend'?" Sup-matordtwhoss oc,adith posd tat rovsio, heydidit ithutpose we were to say the General Assem- Cneto re t twl eafiue it bly may fixt r t he judges at We ha to te old h and not less than three thousand dollars, nor more than twenty thousand dollars. Nine men out of ten would declare we had sanctioned an expenditure of twenty thousand dollars a year to each judge. lf we incorporate in the Constitution a provision which presents in addition to the regular circuit court system, this additional system of circuit courts to be paid for out of the State treasury, it will be said by the people that we have authorized an increase of one hundred thousand dollars to three hundred thousand dollars per annum, in the State expenditures. Mr. CUMMINGS. Mr. Chairman: I regret that this section was not stricken out. If it is to be entertained and adopted by the committee, I really hope- that the amendment of the gentleman from 3fAP,CII 93 18,70. DEBATES AN-D PROCEEDINGS. 1099 here as closely to the forms of the old Constitutie)n as we could, and accomplish the amendments that were desirable at the present day. We have passed tl-irou-rli a perii)d of ten years, which has not perhaps its parallel in the history, certainly of this country, in the itillttion of money, and in the extravagance of the govertiment of the States, of communities, and individuals. And here we stand today, with all these vdst expenses and extravagances, runi,ing down a line of ten year.,4, huo,,,iu,, tnem to ourselves almost as closely as if they were a part of our being. But, sir, I see now, not only in my own home, but in other parts of the states, sio,ns of discontent, and I hear murnier,; from the people over their burdens of taxation. For Instance, id the beautiful citv ()f Clevelztnd the complain that the municipal expenses have betii increased threefol,.i in three years, from the wanton increase by these authorities, of both sal,-tries and offices. The extravagane, sir'that the people complain of is, I. say two fold-in the direction of increaswd salaries and an increased number of offiers to receive them. And I tell you, LNlr. Chairman, if we undertake to put upon the people any further burden now, when there is just dawning upon them the dull gleam of hard times and high taxation, if we propose to them an instrument in which they see that we are not only iiiultiplving expense in one directioii and in another, but increasing and festering litigation instead of discouragiijg it, we will have a hard road to travel, to get our Constitution adopted. The people, sir, are. wedded to the old judicial system, and, so far as I am concerned, I am willirg to continue it. In crease j u(iges, sir, but not courts. "That way the danger lies." Then with re,,ard to the amendment of my colleaoue from Cook [Mr. Hayes], it seunis to me there is some justice in it at least. I find, sir, with regard to the courts of the county, of Cook, that the clerk, etc., are paid by the county, according to this plan, but I do not see -that aiiy other county is sul-)ject to a similar provision. 3lr TURNER. Mr. Chairman: I would say that the provision (.)f the i-eport.relat Cook [Mr. Hayes] will be agreed to. The proposition as it now stands, establishes a county court system. We have discussed the sul.-ject as thou'gh it were for the interest and Welfare of the State. From the arguments adduced by various members of the committee, it will be apparent to the people that they were arguii)g in all honesty and sincerity, and that we believed that the needs of the people required such a court-tbat the people imperatively demanded that the probate court system should be enlarged and made permanent and enduring. This same committee, two sections later, propose, what? They propose to (-,tat)li,s,h another court, to take from the people the very court that we - affirmed %N,as demanded. If we adopt this section we will provide for the eradication of that court, or compel the people of the several ceUDties to pay their expenses for the probate system when, by adopting this system, they can have the expenses paid out of the State treasury. I ask if it is fair, if it is in accordance with the arguments that have been adduced here the last three days, to adopt this system, wherei)y one portion of the State will get the expenses of the judge in the probate court paid out of the State treasury, while the other, if they hold on to the old -,ystein, will get them paid out of the county treasury t, Is the t meting Out even-handed justice? Mr. CODY. Mr. Chairman: Does the gentleman understand that this syteni of courts of common pleas can be adopted in part of the State without being adopted for the whole State? Mr. CUNl',IAINGS I do. Mr. CODY. I think that such -is not the understanding of the committee that reported the Section, and my own understanding of the language Of the section is different from that of the gentleman. Mr. CUiNt,UINGS. Mr. Chairman: We have adopted a section to-day guaranteeing to the people that whenever, I)y a vote, th'ey shall sig,,jify their desire, they shall have a probate court. After the court is established, I think it comes in under vested rights-coiistitutional rights-for that is inherent in,,te p,eople, add we cannot take'it away from them by aDy other grant of power in the Cons'titutioii, uliless. it is by some act of theirs in connection with ours. N 1100 aO~SJT A CO WYI multiply officers under the pretence of dispensing justice." Why, we have al ready provided for every court in the gamut. We have justices' courts, we have county courts, we have circuit courts, and finally we culminate with the supreme court. There is no place for this "comrn nmon pleas court" without throwing the other courts out of harmony and derang it g the whole judicial system We must either trench on our county courts or our district courts; or we must, in fact, de stroy our county courts to make room for this nondescript, or'"what is it." In any event, we multiply offices, we increase costs, we cause perplexity, we produce discord. This is the view I believe peo )le will take of it. If the county court sections are stricken out entirely, I will vote for this section, or something like it, as a substitute. But while the county court system stands, this common pleas court is utterly useless. Why cumbereth it the ground? Let it be cut down as an excrescence. I agree with the gentleman from San gamon [Mir. Hay], that the proper thing for this Convention to do, when we come back to review this work, will be to im prove our county court and make it what it ought to be. We have not quite got that court, I believe, to the satisfaction of any gentleman on this floor. We have labored on it some days earnestly, patient ly and desperately, but it is not yet quite what we want; and after we have gone through with the balance of the article, have thought on this county court, and slept over it, we shall consider it again, and I trust shall finally put a finishing touch upon it that will make it a good court, one the people will understand, be pleased with, and accept at our hands. If we want to place a stumbling block in their way, and to put a club in the hands of every enemy of our work, with which to strike this Constitution, let this common pleas court stand. We furnish them an implement of warfare with which to beat out the brains, perhaps, of the whole instrument. Artful men opposed to this Constitution can take up this section twentybthree, and make such a handle of it as will alarm tens of thousands of voters, and poison their minds against the entire Constitution. We cannot afford to invite this danger, and tempt this species of assault on our work. This common pleas court is wholly needless, and no friend of it has succeeded in showing why it should be retained. TMy judgment is that we had better waste no more time over section twentythree, but take a vote on it, and vote it out, and proceed with our work. Mr. McCOY. Mr. Chairman: The committee have become rather impatient with the consideration of this section, but I wish to say a few words on the subject. The gentlemen from Cook [Mr. Medill] has an idea that it will alarm the people, when they take this section up, providing we adopt it, who will say that it Is no kind of use to retain it. Now, sir, I believe that this section is one of the useful sections, that it is for the advantage and benefit of the people of the State of Illinois. The old probate court is a court, about which of course, all the people of the State understand. They understand that it relates, in its origina' form, simply to the probate business and the settlement -of estates. But the Committee on the CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION WEDNESDAY, 1100 Judicii,try discussed this probate court for about three weeks, and the object of ex tenditig jurisdiction with reference to county courts. The section was passed on the theory that the circuit courts of the State were overwhelmed with busi nes.,-, that the courts in the northern part of the State had more business than they could possibly get along with, and that if the jurisdiction of the county court was increased, a great portion of the small business UOW cl(,)ggiug the circuit courts would be drifted out. It would make a little windmill to drift out the small btisir,ess in the circuit, thereby relieving it. It being presented in the committee, and urged on their consideration by the members of the committee beloDgiLig to the northern portion of the State, raised an opposition from the sourthern pa-t of the State, witii reference to the increased jurisdiction, for the reason that their courts weee not overdone with bus'iness. Their circuit courts had not really business enough to occupy the time of the circuit judges in that portion of the Statu. If we incrtase this jurisdiction in the county courts in the northern portion of the State, it would necessarily array opposition to it in the southern Dor.Lion of the State, for tte sim. pl.e reason that it was of no kind of benefit there, and for the further reason that the circuit courts could do all their business in half the time allotted to them, so that there was no necessity for the increased jurisdiction in the southern part of the State. Ileiice we adopted this proposition or section to meet the alternative that if this Convention should increase the j urisdiction of the county courts, and it should become a burden to the southern part of the State, which it could be so demonstrated to the representatives in the Gen. erat Assembly, the General Assembly could adopt this common pleas court to take the peace of the county court throughout the State, make it equal and equalize the business of the courts. Go'iitlemen say this is an expeiasive court and will increase the burden of the State. This I deny. We have to day accepted the proposition that we will adopt county courts throughout this State with one hundred and two judges, on a,-,alary of five dollars per day as toug as they are a! or that particular district or section of the State, or whether it must create anew court f)r the wh(.)Ie State. Mr. CODY. My understanding of the language is that if the system is adopted at all, it must be a system uniform throughout the State. I am opposed to the whole section on the ground that I believe it unwise, and that the people who desire the contiuu ance of a court in which their probate business may be readily transacted, will be decidedly opposed to the transfer of the business of the county court that meets their wants fully, to a traveling itinerant court, like the circuit court, and with the same jurisdiction, if the Legislature sees fit to confer it. While I am opposed to the whole seetiori, up,)n general priDciples-I am opposed to' it specially because it transfers the business of the county court to this court, and I shall move this amendment feario — the whole section may not be voted down: Strike out all the third and fourth lines after the word "shall," and insert the words #,exercise such." This amendment will prevent the substitution of this court in the place of the county court, and tha;t is its whole effect. Mr..AlEDILL. This section has been a mystery to me from the day.that I first got a copy of this article. I h -tve asked -members what it meant, and one aentleman has explained it in one way, and another has explained it in a different way, and then I have read it over again, and tried in vain to put some intelligible interpretation upon it.- Finally I concluded that I would wait until uhe section came undcr the ordeal of the Committee of the Whole, when I hoped that light might be shed on this opaque section, and that what it really did mean, and what purpose it was.intended to subserve, and wait use ful result was to follow its adoption, would be satisfactorily explained. I have listened to this debate for some hours, and the confusion in relation to its mean iing is growing thicker and the darkness deluser. I am of the opinion that thi~ common pleas court is no better than a fifth wheel to a wagon. It seems to me, if it has any meaning at all, to b very much after the style of the shooting of the man who fired to hit the animal if it was a deer and to miss it if it was a calf. MoH 9, 1870. DEBATES AD PROCEEDINGS. 1101 on -this subject, and informed us of the nature and relations of the subject. When, therefore, I am asked by the lawyers, in case this report is adopted, for an explanation, I will give the rea sons given for its adoption by the distin guished gentleman from Adams [Mr. Browning], that it was a section suggest.ed by a distinguished and eminent lawyer, and that will, I suppose, satisfy the legal part of my constituents. In case the common people ask me for reasons why the section was adopted, I will read to them a paragraph from the speech of the gentleman from Kane [Mr. Wheaton], who said that those who know nothing about the law, should have nothing to say about the judicial article, and in tb hat way get out of it the best I can. I have only to resort to these subterfuges in case I get no better remedy-as it is my wish to vote the section out. Mr. BUXTON. Will the gentleman allow me to explain? This common pleas court is intended to please the com mon people. [Laughter]. Mr. DEMENT. I think not, so far as the speech of the gentleman from Adams [Mr. Browning] goes on this subject; and I can confirm it by the remarks of the gentleman from Kane [Mr. Wheaton], that the common people know nothing about it. I think the best way for us is to vote this section out. Mr. WHEATON. Mr. Chairman: I have an amendment to the amendment offered by the gentleman from DuPage [Mr. Cody], which I ask to have read. The Clerk read the amendment offered by Mr. Wheaton, as follows: Appeals shall be allowed from justices of the peace to county courts, and from county courts to said court of common pleas, and from said court of common pleas to the circuit court, and from the circuit court to the inferior appellate court, and from the inferior appellate court to the supreme court, and o from the supreme court to justices of the peace. i [Laughter.] The question being upon the adoption of the amendment offered by Mr. Wheaton, it was agreed teo. The question being upon the adoption of the amendment offered by Mr. Cody, as amended by the amendment offered by Mr. Wheaton, it was agreed to. Mr. SKINNER. I would like to hea r the section, a s amended, r ead. The Clerk read section twenty-threei as amended, as follows: SEC. 23. The Gene ral Assembly m ay establis h courts of record in thisdStat to be styled courts of comm on pleas, of uniform organization and julrisdiction, in districts of one or more counties- which, when established shall exercise such j urisd;~tion as may be conferred by law. The judge s an d clerks of said courts of compon pleas shall be elected in such districts, a nd have such q ualifications and receive su ch coIh pensation, and be paid in such manmereas ma y be p ro vided by law. Appeals shall be allowed from justices of the peace to county courts. and from county courts to said court of common pleas, and from the court of common pleas to the circuit court, and from the circuit court to the inferior appellate court, and from the inferior appellate court to the supreme court, and from the supreme court to justices of the peace, Mr. WENDLING. M~r. Chairman: I murmove that this committee now rise, report progress, and ask leave to sit again. ["Question." "Question."] Mr. HANNA. Mr. Chairman: One moment. I was not in my seat to-day, 1 until within the last few moments on ac nearly compact form as the population neces"ary for the same will permit, and when formed shall not be changed until after the next census of the State or the United States. The creation, alteration or change of any judicial division or judicial circuit shall n ot affect the tenure of office of any judge. In connection with that, the report of the Judiciary Committee was so amended -as to, whenever the General Assembly shall district the State into circuits, proTide for an election of ciruit judges -which will probably occur (if they act promptly after the meeting of the next General Assembly,) sometime in 1871. The object of that provision was that the State should be so distracted as to justly apportion the judicial business more equitably than now, and that judges who are now but little employed may find employment. That being done, under the article adopted, these circuit courts cannot be changed or altered for six years, nor can the time of holding courts in these circuits be altered, though an additional term may be added. If the Legislature shall act, and gives thesejudges that are to be elected under this Constitution a full amount of labor, as they doubtless will, and if there should be another class of district courts created without any definition of, or limit upon their jurisdiction, as there is an endeavor to constitute them, there is danger-though it may not be perceived-of an attempt to relieve those courts thus created, for six years, by transforming Dart of their business into these district courts of unlimited jurisdiction. Thus the mischief would in that event occur, which this Convention in a former section of the article determined to prevent. That is one point. Another point is that which arises upon the amendment of the gentleman from DuPage [air. Cody],that this court,instead of being a substitute ior the county court, if it is created, shall have such jurisdiction as may be provided by law, not compelling the Legislature, if they establish this court at all, to transfer the probate business of the county to a court of common pleas, which will be a district court probably of several counties, when the counties are small, perhaps three or four holding terms, not more, perhaps than three or four times a year. Now, I apprehend that with the habits and usages of our people in regard to the administration of the estates of dece:ased persons, and the ready access to the probate court to which they have been accustomed, it would not be very acceptable if they were compelled, as the gentlem~an from DuPage [Mr. Cody] remarks, to transact the probate business before an itineran~ judge. These are two points, sir, that I propose for the consideration of the Convention, without myself feeling any veret great anxiety in relation to the subject. I present these views in view of what we have already done. M~r. DEHCENT. Mr. Chairman: I am a good deal in the situation of the gentleman froth Cook [Hir. lMedill], in doubt as to the character of this report, but, while satisfied that it wa~s intended to multiply courts, I was uncertain whether it was} as was remarked by the gentleman from Cook [Mr. 3/edill], a fifth wheel to a wagon, or an entire new vehicle. Distinguished gentlemen, eminent in h gal attainments, have given their views 276 ["Question." "Question."] AMr. GOODHUE. M r. Cha irman: I ri se, sir, simply for the purpose of asking a question. ["Question." Laughter.] I wish to ask if the phraseology of the amendment does not pre-suppose the existence of the county court and this common pleas court at the same time-against which we have heretofore provided? The CHAIRMAN. The Chair is of opinion that it does. Mr. GOODHUE. Wbile I am on the floor I will announce that at the earliest opportunity I will move a reconsideration of the legislative article, strike it out, and dispense hereafter with all General Assemblies. I think they are entirely unnecessary and dangerous. ["Second the motion."] Mr. SPRINGER. ]Mr. Chairman: I want to know what is the condition of the section that we have been voting on. As we understand it on this side of the house, the amendment of the gentleman from Kane [Mr. Wheaton] was offered as an amendment to the amendment of the gentleman from DuPaue [Mr. Cody.] The CHAIRMIIAN. Yes, sir. Mr. SPRINGER. Then there was a vote taken on the amendment to the amendment, but there has been no vote on the original amendment? The CItAIRMIAN. The gentleman is in error. The amendment of the gentleman from DuPage [Mr. Cody] was adopted. ~ Mr. SPRINGER. There has been but one question put, I am quite sure. The CHAIRMAN. Both amendments were put and adopted. Mr. SPRINGER. Then both amend, ments are fastened on the section. The CHAIRMAN. Yes, sir. The question recurs upon the adoption of the section as amended. The Clerk will read. The Clerk read section twenty-three, as amended, as follows: SEC. 23. The General Assembly may establish courts of record in this State, to be styled courts of commou pleas, of uniform organization and jurisdiction, in districts of one or more counties, which, when established, shall "exercise such jurisdiction as may be conferred by law." The judges and clerks of said courts of common pleas shall be elected in such districts, and have such qualifications, and receive such compensation and be paid in such manner as may be provideft by law. Appeals shall be allowed from justices of the peace to county courts, and from county courts to said court cI common pleas, and from said court of common pleas to the circuit court, and from the circuit court to the inferior appellate court, and from the inferior appellate court to the supreme court, and from the supreme court to justices of the peace. Mr. WALL. Mr. Chairman: I call for a division of the question, so that a vote may be taken on so much of the section as was reported by the committee, independent of the amendment ofered~ by I I MARc]'E[ 9, 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1101 count of ill health. If this section has been so amended that when the Legislature adopts the court of common pleas, it will not dispense with the county court, I can not vote for this section. While I prefer the court of common pleas to the county court, I do not want both. Afr. TINCHER. I rise to a point of order. The question pending is on the motion to rise. The question being on the motion to rise and report progress, it was not agreed to. 1102. CONSTITUTIONAL CONYENTION WEDNESDAY, mediately before the question was decided a discussion took place, and has continued up to this time as I understand it. Mr. WASHBURN. Mr. Chairman: I believe that the true state of the question is this: There was a motion to strike out the section, and there was a vote taken on that, the chairman announcing it was a tie vote, and that the motion was lost; and the question before the committee now is, as I understand it,on the adoption of this section, upon which there is moved a division of the question. Now, I apprehend that there can be no division of this question, because the division sought is simply a subtraction of the amendment which was just now adopted, and the effect of granting this would simply be to reject an amendment which was but just now adopted, to then go on and adopt or reject the balance of the section, and leave us in the position of rescinding an amendment once adopted. I apprehend there can be no justice at all in dividing this question now. If the Committee of the Whole, by unanimous consent, wish to withdraw the adoption of that amendment, or if the committee wish to reconsider and reject it, they can do so, but this question is not susceptible of division. Mr. SKINNER. I move to reconsider the motion. Mr. WASHBURN. I think that would be the best way. Mr. CAMERON. I move that by unanimous consent we reconsider the vote. ["Object," "object."] Mr. BUXTON. I move that the further consideration of this question be postponed to the eighth day of next January. Mr. SKINNER. I move that the further consideration of the question be postponed until we come to section twentysix. That section contains a provision like this: The General Assembly may provide for the establishment of probate courts in each county having over fifty thousand inhabitants. I hope that the two sections may be considered together. Mr. CARY. Mr. Chairman: I think that the motion of the gentleman from Clinton [Mr. Buxton] is entirely out of order, because I do not think this committee have any power to postpone a vote beyond the time that this committee have power to act. The Convention might postpone, were we in Convention instead sof Committee of the Whole. There is also a motion to reconsider, which I think is not in order before the Committee of t the Whole. I suppose that no one imagines that the gentleman from Kane [Mr. Wheaton] offered that amendment with any expec: tation or desire that it would be tacked on as part of this Constitution. Yet, sir, some gentlemen seem to treat it in that a manner. I suppose his object was to deW feat the section. But by taking a vote , we can decide the object which he desired to effect, in a much shorter time. Mr. ROBINSON. Mr. Chairman: I M rise to question of order. My impression as to the question pending is that it is upon the motion to strike out. My recollection of the state of the proposition is this: The gentleman from Cl(3nton LMr. wBuxton] moved to strike out the whole I I I s t e t e e e f t c e 0 WEDNESDAY, CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION 1102 section. Upon that motion the vote was taken, which was a tie vote. The Chair decided that, inasmuch as he had the affirmative, the motion was lost. Then the gentleman from Fulton [Mr. Cummings] moved to strike out all down to the word "law," in the fifth line. That is, as I understand it, the motion now before the committee. I will ask what is the recollection of the Chair? The CHAIRMAN. That motion was put to the committee and decided also. Mr. TURNER. I believe the gentleman from Cook [Mr. Cameron] has moved to reconsider the vote by which the amendment was adopted. I ask for a vote upon that. Mr. CARY. I rise to a point of order. Can we reconsider a vote in committee? Mr. TURNER. 0 yes, we can. Mr. WELLS. Mr. Chairman: I move the committee rise, report progress and ask leave to sit again. Mr. HAYES. I ask a decision on the point of order. I think there is no doubt the committee may reconsider its action. Mr. HAINES, of Cook. Mr. Chairman: The motion was that it be reconsidered by unanimous consent. The CHAIRMAN. The question is on the motion of the gentleman from Peoria [Mr. Wells] that the committee rise. The motion was not agreed to. The CHAIRMAN. The question is on the motion of the gentleman from Cook [Mr. Cameron] to reconsider. The motion was agreed to. Mr. HAYES. Mr. Chairman: I rise to a question of order on the motion of the gentleman from Kane [Mr. Wheaton] -that his amendment is not in order. The phraseology is such that it would be undignified and unbecoming the Convention to adopt it. The CHAIRMAN. The point of order is sustained. ["Question," "Question."] Mr. HAINES, of Cook. Mr. Chairman: I move the whole section be stricken out. The CHAIRMAN. That has been once decided. The question is on the adoption of the section. Mr. CUMMINGS. I move to strike out the section with amendments. It is not the old motion to strike out. Mr. WHEATON. Mr. Chairman: The decision of the Chair, I conceive, was incorrect. The amendment has nlothing in it derogatory to the dignity of this Committee of the Whole. If they see fit to provide any appeal anywhere, they can do so. There is an amendment adopted by this committee, suggested by the gentleman from Du Page [Mr. Cody], that, I understand, has not yet been reconsidered. The amendment offered by myself to his amendment was parliamentary, such as is allowable to any opponent of the section who can place upon it anything derogatory to the section itself for the purpose of killing it. As long as it does not contain any breach of privilege, any improper or offensive words, or anything derogatory or personal to any member of the Convention, it cannot be stamped by anybody as undignified or derogatory to the Convention. Mr. HAYES. M~r. Chairman: I rise to a point of order —that the gentleman not having taken an appeal from the decision of the Chair until other business had intervened, it is too ltte now, to take the gentleman from Kane [Mr. Wheaton] which relates to a different subject. Mr. BUXTON. Mr. Chairman: I rise to a question of order. I would ask whether it is~in order to divide a section so as to make a separate question on an amendment which has been adopted? Mr. BROWNINqG. Mr. Chairman: I do not intend to indulge in any criticism, of course, upon what has been done. Every member of the Committee of the Whole has a right to judge of the proprieties of things for himself, but I hope the division will be permitted. The proposition is susceptible of division, and if the committee is opposed to the section, I think we had better vote it down in a manner compatible with the dignity of this body. I should dislike very much to see —and I do not in-tend any disrespect to any one in saying so —but I should dilslike very much to see, and would feel humiliated, Mr. Chairman, to see the amendment published to the~ world, as having been adopted in this committee. I hope. as the whole purpose of the amendment — little amusement —has been accomplished, we will be permitted to vote upon the section. If gentlemeni are dissatisfied with it, let them vote it, down. Mr. CUMMINGS. Mgr. Chairman: There is no question settled better than the fact that when a Committee of the Whole has entertained a motion, and that motion has been adopted, they have no power to recede from it. All they can do is to refer it to the Convention, the body that constituted them a Committee of the Whole. It is not in accordance with the rule to ask for the division of an amendment that has been offered to a proposi. tion, and been accepted by a Committee of the Whole. Therefore, I insist, it is a question of ,order, that we shall either reject or adopt this section, as it has been amended by the committee. Mr. PARKS. I want to ask the gentleman whether he seriously wishes what we have been doing now, to go upon the journal of this Convention, be published as a part of the proceedings, and go into the printed debates of the Convention? I was opposed to the action of the Convention, and am opposed to its publica ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~tin Mr. CU~/I~INGS. We ae here forte purpose of transacting ~~~~~~~~~~busns.W hav~~~~~~~ ~e epoe eotr,t aedw what w~~~~~~~~esa,adrprtoorpol what we do, and I, for one, am not for~~~~~~~ smuggling ou acts., If ehaeotdb do it.~~~~~~ Mr. CAMERON. Mr. Chairma~~~no: hope, by nanimous onsent, w will~re consider the vote by which the ame1 ment of the gentleman from Kane [1 Wh~~~~~~~~~~eatn a dpe.Itikw it to ours~~~~~~elvs n u osiuns adot tis oure, ndif n oderI wul make a motion to that effect.e Mr. TRESDAL. I rie to poir of oder I hin th qustin bfor the ommtte is o srik outThre as a vote upon hat question and pendin th~~~~~~~~~~~~~atot, adbfr h ~~to a decded a iviionwasc fr. ra MARCH 9, 1870. DEBATES AND PROOEEDI~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~GS. 1103~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ on this floor has made up his mind defi nitely as to whether he will vote for or against this section, and I do not intend to say a word in regard to it further than this, that every report which may be made by any committee Mr. FOX. Mr. Chairman: I rise to a question of order. The Chair has not de cided the question to rise. The CHAIRMAN. The question was decided in the negative. Mr. SKINNER. Mr. Chairman: I wish to insist upon my motion to post pone the consideration of section twenty three, to be considered in connection with section twenty-six, relating to courts of probate. I do it in justice to the parties for and against this provision-that they may consider it fairly. I insist upon my motion as the best step towards settling the question. Mr. BROWNING. Mr. Chairman: I think any report made by a committee of this body is entitled to be treated with such decency and respect, as to secure a vote upon it, and upon such amendments as may be offered in good faith. Mr. ANTHONY. Mr. Chairman: The question is upon striking out this section. Mr. SKINNER. Mr. Chairman: My motion was pending. I insist upon it. Mr. ANTHONY. Mr. Chairman: I insist that the motion to strike out was made in advance of the motion to post pone. My only object is to reach a vote; either adopt or reject. Mr. WENDLING. Mr. Chairman: I rise to a point of order. Mr. ANTHONY. Mr. Chairman: I understand that a motion to strike out was pending. I wish the Chair to say whether that is the case or not? Mr. WENDLING. Mr. Chairman: The Chair has not yet decided upon the motion to rise. There was a division or dered. Mr. ANTHONY. Mr. Chairman: I simply wish to know whether there is a motion to strike out pending or not? Mr. COOLBAUGH. Mr. Chairman: The motion of the gentleman from Ad ams [Mr. Skinner] to postpone this section takes precedence. The CHAIRMAN. The Chair understands so. Mr. ANTHONY. Mr. Chairman: I submit to my colleague the question as to how he gets over rule twenty-six, that a proposition to strike out takes precedence of all others? Mr. CUMMINGS. M1r. Chairman: I cm ade a motion to strike out prior to the motion of the gentleman from Adams aMr. Skinner] to postpone. On that I called for the question. Mr. COOLBAUGH. Mr. Chairman: Do I understand that the Chair has decided that a motion to postpone takes precedence? The CHAIRMAN. Yes, sir. The question is upon the motion to postpone the consideration of this section. A division was ordered. The committee divided, when the motion of Mr. Skinner, to postpone further consideration of section twenty-three, until section twenty-six should hare been considered, was agreed to. Mr. SKINNER. Mr. Chairman: I move that the committee now rise, report progress, and ask leave to sit again at half past ten o'clock to-morrow morning. The motion was agreed to. an appeal, and his remarks are therefore out of order. Mr. WHEATON. The point of order may be well taken; but there was no op portunity on my part, or on the part of any one else, to make an explanation. [" Question,"',question"]. The question is now upon the amend ment of the gentleman from Du Page [Mr. Cody], or rathe r upon the section a s amend ed by tha t gentleman. That amend ment has not been reconsidered by the committee. Mr. BROMWELL. Mr. Chairman: I rise to a point of order. The question cannot be upon the amendment of the gentleman from DuPage [Mr. Cody]. That gentleman offered an amendment to which the gentleman from Kane [Mr. Wheaton] offered an amendment. Now a vote upon the amendment of the gen tleman from Kane [Mr. Wheaton] was in order, and then upon the amendment of the gentleman from DaPage [Mr. Cody]. Thereupon a motion was made to recon sider, and the reconsideration could act only on the last vote taken, which was the one last voted upon, which was the amendment of the gentleman from Du Page [Mr. Cody] as amended by the gentleman from Kane [Mr. Wheaton]. That brings the thing right back to where the amendment of the gentleman from Kane [Mr. Wheaton] is pending. Mr. TURNER. Mr. Chairman: The question now before the committee is the motion of the gentleman from Fulton [Mr. Cummings] that the section together with the amendment be stricken out. Mr. WHEATON. Mr. Chairman: The statement of the gentleman from Coles [Mr. Bromwell] is exactly correct. The motion to reconsider was not stated by the Chair as to what was to be reconsidered. It was therefore to reconsider the last vote which was upon the adoption of the amendment of the gentleman from DuPage [Mr. Cody]. The amendment suggested by myself was adopted, and it does not now lie in the power of the Chair or the committee to reconsider or declare that out of order as it has already been adopted by the committee. I offered that amendment not supposing it would carry, but simply to express the ridiculousness of the proposition embraced in the section. Mr. TURNER. M/r. Chairman: Themotion of the gentleman fronm Cook [Mr. Cameron] was to reconsider the vote by which the amendment of the gentleman from Kane [Mr. Wheaton] was adopted. That vote was reconsidered, the amendment was declared out or order, and no appeal was taken fr'om the decision of the Chair; so the question is entirely out of the hands of the committee. Mr. WHEATON. Mr. Chairmnan: If that be the case, I am content. I did not offer the amendment with the expectation that it would be adopted, and was surprised when it was adopted by the committee. Mr. WENDLING. Mr. Chairman: It is evident, fromn the confusion existing here, that there is no very speedy way of getting at the matter. I, therefore, move that the committee do now rise, report progress, and ask leave to sit again at half past ten o'clock to-morrow morning. The motion was not agreed to. Mr. BROWNqING. Mr. Chairman: I have no doubt that every gentleman ~p THURSDAY, March 10, 1870. The Convention met at ten o'clock, A. M., and was called to order by the President. PRAYER. Prayer' was offered by the Rev. Mr. Miller, of Springfield, as follows: Our Father, who art in heaven, we ac knoweledge Thee not only as our Creator and our Preserver, but also as our Sovereign, our Law-Giver, our Saviour. We would commit thankfully all the inter ests of our life, both private and public, into Thy gracious hands, and implore Thee for wis dom in the direction of all our affairs here below. We beseech Thee, our Father, for Thy bles sing upon the labors of this Convention. Do Thou give wisdom and grace, and life and strength unto the members thereof, that they may discharge their several duties in the fear of God; that they may frame such law for the government of this commonwealth, for the regulation of the public affairs of this people as will accomplish good and result in the attainment of the purposes for which they are assembled together. Wilt Thou grant them health and strength, both in body and mind; preserve them that they may return to their families in safety aRd in health. And, O, Father, we here commit all their work into Thy hands, and wecpray Thee direct all they do, in the name of Jesus Christ our Lord. Amen. READING OF THE JOURNAL. The Secretary lead the journal of the last day's proceedings. COMMITTEE ON GRAND DIVISIONS The PRESIDENT. The Chair would announce the committee appointed under the resolution of the gentleman from Cook [Mr. Medill], relating to the grand divisions of the State, as follows: Mr Medill, Mr. Church, Mr. Dement, Mr. Peirce, Mr. Ross, Mr. Hay, Mr. Wall, Mr. Buxton, and Mr. Scholfield. PETITIONS AND COMMUNICATIONS. The PRESIDENT. Petitions and com munications are now in order. OBSERVANCE OF THE SEVENTH DAY. Mr. WELLS presented a petition of George W. Gregory and others, citizens of Jackson county, praying to be protected in their right to observe the seventh day as the Sabbath. Also, the petition of Elias Dilday and others, on the same subject. The two petions were referred to the Committee on Bill of Rights. BIBLE IN PUBLIC SCHOOLS. Mr. PERLEY presented the petition of John B. Boice, an old and prominent member of the bar, on the use of the Bible in common schools. The petition was referred to the Committce onl Education. Mr. SKINNER. Mr. President: I move the Convention now/resolve itself into the Committee of the Whole, for the purpose of considering the report of the Committee on the Judiciary. SUBSClqIPTIONqS TO CAPITAL STOCK,. ETC. Mr. PEIRC:E. Mr. President: I desire to offer, for the purpose of reference, an article proposed to he incorporated i~ the Constitution. DEBATES AND PROCEEDI-NGS. 1103 3fAp.ciff 95 1870. ADJOURNMENT. Mr. SHARP. ]Nlr. President: I move that this Convention do now adjourn. The motion was agreed to. So the Convention (at six o'clock — nd seven minutes) adjourned. - 1. 6 SIXTY-FIBST DAY. 1104 ()OXSTITUTIONAL OONYETIO THURSDAY, Resolved, That five hundred copies of the report of the Auditor, comprising a list of the organized townships in the State, be printed for the use of the Auditor's office. JUDICIAL DEPARTMENT. Mr. SKINNER. Mr. President: If' there is nothing before the Convention, I will now renew my motion to go into Committee of the Whole for the purpose of considering the report of the Judiciary Committee. The motion was agreed to. So the Convention, as in Committee of the Whole (Mr. Cummings in the chair), resumed the consideration of the report of the Committee on Judiciary. Mr. SKINNER. Mr. Chairman: At the adjournment of the committee, the invesigation had proceeded to the twentyfourth section. I move its adoption., The Clerk read section twenty-four as follows: ARTICLE -. SEcTION —. No county, city, town, township or school district shall ever become subscriber to the capital stock of any private corporation, or make any donation to, or loan its credit in aid of any such corporation. This section shall be submitted to the legal voters of this State in manner following, towit: Separate ballots shall be provided at each place of voeting, entitled "for section" and "against section;" and if it shall appear that a majority of votes cast are "for section," then the said section shall be a part of this Constitution; but if a majority of the votes cast are "against section," then the said sec. tion shall be void and of iio effect. Mr. PEIRCE. Mr. President: I will say in explanation of that proposition, that no member can have failed to observe that the action taken by this Convention in the adoption of section fortyfour of the Legislative article has met with severe criticism both in the southern and northern portions of this State, for opposite reasons, and it is my impression that it will prove a heavy load upon the Constitution. I desire to have this article printed, laid upon the table, and made the special order for sav, Thursday next, at half past ten o'clock; and that if adopted, section forty-four of the Legislative article be stricken out. I move to make this article the special order of the day I have specified. The motion was agreed to. COUNTY COMMISSIONERS. SEc. 24. There shall be elected in each of the counties of this State, not under township organization, three officers, who shall be styled "the board of county commissioners," and who shall hold sessions for the transaction of county business, as shall be provided by law. Section twenty-four was agreed to. of the whole article; an d I ho pe the sub. stitute will not b e adopted. Mr. PARKER. Mr. Chairman: This board of county commissioners we all understand. It is an old organization and has been in existence since the State was organized. It is recognized in several different places in this Constitution. There are two sections here for that purpose. The counties under that report are only about thirty-Iwo in number, andl it will probably soon cease to exist. I think that this board of supervisors is eventually to be the board for doing county business in this State. It should receive some recognition in this Constitution, although every committee has ignored it thus far. This section twentyfive is with reference to this old board, and should be left to the Legislature. Therefore, I ask for the adoption of the substitute. The CHAIRMAN. The question is upon the adoption of the substitute. The Clerk read the substitute offered by Mr. Parker, as follows: In counties under township organization there shall be elected, in such manner as the General Assembly may by general law provide, officers to be known by the name of "supervisors." Said supervisors shall constitute a board, and shall hold sessions for the transaction of such county business as shall bv law be provided. Said board shall be styled "the board of supervisors." The substitute was not agreed to. The CHAIRMAN. The question is upon the adoption of the section as reported. Section twenty-five was agreed to. Mr. PARKER. Mr. Chairman: I give notice that I shall offer this as an additional section. Here is the report of the Committee on Counties and the adopted report on Township Organization. They have not so much as named supervisor, not even implied it either in the majority or minority report. Mr. WHEATON. In the township organization report it is provided for already. Mr. PARKER. It is not even named in the report. ELECTION OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS. The Clerk read section twenty-five, as follows: SEc. 25. At the first election of county judges under this Constitution, said commissioners shall be elected-one of whom shall hold his office for one year, one for two years, and one for three years, to be determined by lot; and every year thereafter one such officer shall be elected for the term of three years. Mr. PARKER. Mr. Chairman: I think that matter of election might as well be left to the Legislature. The terms of office o f justices of the peace, and several other officers, are now fixed by the Legislature. I deem the section unnecessary, and therefore offer a substitute. The Clerk read the substitute offered by Mr. Parker, as follows: In counties under township organization, there shall be elected, in such manner as the General Assembly may by general law pro-. vide, officers to be known by the name of "supervisors." Said supervisors shall constitute a board, and shall hold sessions for the trans,ction of such county business as shall by law be provided. Said boardshall be styled "the board of supervisors." Mr. SKINNER. Mr. Chairman: The substitute simply relates to the board of supervisors in counties under township organization. There are counties in the State, not under township organization. Where they are under township organization the board of supervisors is the body that transaclts the financial matters of the counties. Where they are not under townshlip organization, the county judge,a torg,ether with two justices of the peace, trausact that business. Delegates from counties where township organization does not exist, desire to come back to the oI i syvstem of county organizatien. Then in counties where township organization does not exist, the jurisdiction would be with the county commissioners. In the counties where township organization exists, it would be with the board of supervisors. Hlence the substitute would not effect the object of the committee in providing a system for both conditions si.e., where there is township organization and where there is not. Both the provisions are essential to the harmony PROBATE. COURTS. The Cl erk re ad section twenty-six, as follows: SEC. 26. The General Assembly may provide for the establishment of a probate court in each count y haying o ver fifty th ous and population, and for the election of a judge thereof, whose term of office shall be the same as that of the county judge, and who shall be elected at the same time and in the same manner. Said court shall have exclusive jurisdiction of all probate matters, the settlement of estates of deceased persons, the appointment of guardians and conservators and settlements of their accounts, and iu all matters relating to apprentices. Mlr. KING. Mr. Chairman: I would ask for information, if section twenty five is not the one under consideration? Mr. BROWNING. No, that has been adopted. Mr. SKINNER. Mr. Chairman: I desire to have the ear of the committee a few moments, for the purpose of giving an explanation. Section twenty-three was postponed on yesterday, to be taken up in connection with section twenty-six, now before the committee. Both sections are before the committee for joint consideration-the section relating to courts of common pleas, and the section relating to probate courts. I desire simply to express my views in regard to the effect of section twenty-six, I CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION T.HURSDAY, 1104 The Secretary read the proposed article, as follows: RESTRICTION OF LANDED ESTATES. Mr. HAINES, of Lake. Mr. President: If the gentleman from Ad:tms [3,lr. Skinner] will allow me, I will offer a proposition for reference. Mr. SKINNER. I will yield for that purpose. The Secretary read the, resolution offered by Mr. Haines, of Lake, as follows: Resolved, That the Committee on Agriculture be instructed to iliqure and report as to the expediency of a constitutional provision limiting the number of acres of land that may be acq,iired and held by any one individual, so as to prevent large estates from beinl, held by a single individual to the exclusion 6'f others, and for purposes of speculation. Mr. HAINES, of, Lake. Mr. President: I do not care to ask any action upon the subject Dow. I have offered the pro-oosition at the suggestion of several o my constituents, in order that some report may be obtained from the committee having such subject in charge. 11 would, therefore, ask its reference to the Committee on Agriculture. The PRESIDENT. It will be so referred. Mr. PEIRCE. Mr. President: I have another resolution which I desire to have adopted. Mr. SKINNER. Mr. President: I shall be compelled to insist on my motion. Mr. HAINES, of Lake. Mr. President: We have a stand;-ng rule that the Convention shall resolve itself into Committee of the Whole, at half past ten o'clock, and it is not usual to insist upon it before that time. Mr. SKINNER. I withdraw my motio.u, Mr. President. PRINTING REPORT ON TOWNSHIP ORG-KN IZATION. Mr. PEIRCE offered the following res,olution, which was read by the Secretary, and agreed to: - MoH 10, 1870. DEBATES AD PROCEEDIGS 1105 their business transacted without delay — letters of administration and executorship granted, wills proved, guardians appoint ed for minors. Those things are arising constantly in every county, and the pro bate judge acts as a kind of confidential advisor or protector to widows and or phans, and the helpless. Such a court should receive a great deal of consideration from the committee. I submit to the committee the question as to whether the first section, with regard to the court of common pleas, ought to be retained, if a probate court should also be established, and whether if the court of common pleas is to be retained as a provi sion in the article, it should have that jurisdiction expressed upon the face of the section, that is, unlimited jurisdiction. The CHAIRMAN. The question is upon the adoption of section twenty three as amended, and section twenty-six, in accordance with the motion of the gentleman from Adams [Mr. Skinner] that the two sections should be considered together. The Clerk read section twenty-three as amended, and section twenty-six, as fol-. lows: SEC. 23. The General Assembly may estab lish courts of record in this State, to be styled courts of common pleas, of uniform organiza tion and jurisdiction, in districts of one or more counties; which, when established, shall exercise such jurisdiction as may be conferred by law. The judges and clerks of said courts of common pleas shall be elected in such dis tricts, and have such qualifications and re ceive such compensation, and be paid in such manner as may be provided by law. SEc. 26. The General Assembly may pro vide for the establishment of a probate court in each county having over fifty thousand population, and for the election of a judge thereof, whose term of office shall be the same as that of the county judge, and who shall be elected at the same time and in the same manner. Said court shall have exclu sive jurisdiction of all probate matters, the settlement of estates of deceased persons, the appointment of guardians and conservators and settlements of their accounts, and in all matters relating to apprentices. Mr. ROSS. Mr. Chairman: I am inclined to think that we are getting too many courts. [Laughter.] Mr. GOODHUE. Mr. Chairman: I would like to ask, if the matter is left to the Legislature, why the the gentleman takes it for granted that this clause neces. sarily secures the courts? Mr. ROSS. Mr. Chairman: I do not want to have a reasonable probability, even in the future, of having so many courts. The great danger in our way now, according to my judgment, is in over-doing the thing. I have had occasion to be out the last two or three days among the people, and they think the Convention is spreading itself almost too much. They want some amendments made to the Constitution, but they were well enough satisfied with the judicial system we have, and want only some increase of the judges of the supreme court, and some increase of their compensation. These courts of common pleas here proposed would, in my judgment, be distyasteful to the people. This probate court provided for in this twenty-sixth section, appears to me to be all they need, as it wilt give additional court facilities to what we now have in counuties of over fifty thousand populatiom. It has been well said by the chairman of the Judiciary Committee [Mr. Sk;n The General Assembly may establish courts of record in this State, to be styled common pleas, of uniform organization and jurisdic tion, in districts of one or more counties, which, when established, shall be substituted in the place of county courts. It will De seen that under this section the General Assembly may create courts in any section of the State-in a county or number of counties. The uniformity of jurisdiction would extend to the places where the court is established. It may be in a third of the State, or fourth, or any locality, and not another. I call the attention of this committee to this provision-"which, when established shall be substituted in the place of county courts." In my judgment, a court thus created, would take the jurisdiction of the county courts, but such a class of courts would not necessarily be uniform throughout the State. They take the place of the county courts only in localities where the General Assembly creates them. Section twenty-three continues, "And such other jurisdiction as may be conferred by law." That jurisdiction may be as broad as the jurisdiction of the circuit courts. There is no limit. It could embrace not only all equity jurisdiction, but all probate jurisdiction, all criminal jurisdiction, all common law and statutory civil jurisdiction-in other words, a boundless jurisdiction. In my judgment the section authorizes the creation of courts of common pleas in localities, and authorizes any sort of jurisdiction to be conferred upon that court utterly out of harmony with the judicial system attempted to be established. Section twenty-six authorizes the General Assembly to provide for a probate court in counties having 50,000 population, etc. The county courts have probate jurisdiction now, and under this article that probate jurisdiction is' continued. But it was thought as long as the jurisdiction of the county court might be increased very largely, it might happen in the more populous counties that the time of the judge of that court would be so absorbed with the business of the court with the increased jurisdiction, that he would not have time to attend to the important probate business ofthe county, and hence it was proper to leave the question open for the General Assembly to provide for such a condition of things, by creating a court of probate, whosej arisdiction should be probate alone, in a county where the population was not less than 50,000. Evidently, these two courts ought not to be created —both ought not to exist, and I doubt very much the propriety of presenting a Constitution to the people for their adoption or rejection, with provisions authorizing the creation of the two courts. There can be no sort of necessity for it. The probate business of as populous county is very important. In such a locality, as a general rule, the court sits constantly where the people, as occasion req uires, may come to it and hwe 277 ner], that to confer s uch jurisdiction as is proposed to be given to this court of com mon pleas, would enable the Legislature to make a court that would absorb the entire business of the circuit court, and to do that would be a great mistake. If the motion has not already been made, I desire to strike out the twenty third section. ["Yes," "yes."] I would be glad also if the committee would strike out the provision with re gard to appellate courts. We are getting too much machinery. I hope that this amendment will be made. Mr. BROMWELL. Mr. Chairman: I am afraid that if we have a county court and court of common pleas left to the Legislature to make what they pl)ease out of the provision, the people will think the majority of this Convention are can didates for judges. They will be at a loss to know why this Convention insists on putting so many courts into operation in this State. This court of common pleas authorized, without excluding the county courts, actually provides three sets of courts under the supreme court, (be sides the appellate courts proposed,) and one hundred and two county judges, and, perhaps, twenty-five circuit judges, and then fifty or sixty common pleas' judges with all their clerks and other expenses. It seems to me, justice is going to cost more than it is worth in this State. Those who have heretofbre spoken in favor of this court of common pleas, as I understand, have done so because they expected it to take the place of inferior county courts-that it would be a circuit county court, in other words, by means of which one judge would go around in three or four counties and transact the probate business, as well as all the other judicial business, in lieu of the present county courts, and on the score of economy it was advocated. But, if the section as it. now stands, would permit these courtsto be interpolated between the circuit and county court, while at the same time, we also provide for an appellate court, between the circuit and supreme court, we are set ting no limits; we are inviting the Legis lature to fill the land with courts and officers. Mr. TURNER. Mr. Chairman: I would certainly be opposed to this twenty-third section being adopted, if it is going to create another class of courts and leave the county courts in existence. The section, as prepared by the Judiciary Committee,'contemplatedl no such thing. It provides that the General Assembly may establish courts of record, to be styled courts of commnon pleas, of uniform organization and jurisdiction, in districts of one or more counties, which, when established, shall be substituted in the place of county courts, and shall exercise all their powers and jurisdictipn, and such other jurisdiction as may be conferred by law. The only object the committee had, so fOr as I know, in incorporating that section in the judiciary article, was to diminish the number of courts. It was claimed by parties residing in some sections of the State, that their county courts had very little to do, and that having very little to do, it was almost impossible to get competent men to fill the place of judge; and it was suggested that, by throwing three or four, or half a dozen of these counties together, constituting for MAlea 10, 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1105 creating the court of common pleas. I do not suppose the Committee on the Jua diciary was agreed on -the question. Throughout the article is an attempt to create uniform jurisdiction in courts, uniform in their powers, uniform as to the liens of judgments and decrees, uniform as to their organization and jurisdiction throughout the State. This section relates to courts without these elements: 1106 COTITUTIONAL COYETiON THURSDAY, them a court of common pleas, and per- attempt to revise and amend their Consti mitting them to elect one judge for such tution, however much they changed it in counties, instead of one judge for every other respects, they made no change in county, it would not only be a saving of this. I am not aware that in any of these expense to the counties, but would cause States there has been any considerable the probate business and such other busi- complaint made of the injurious effects of ness as might be conferred upon that the adoption of that system. court to be done in a better manner. The idea of adopting the common pleas I do not think, sir, that in the section court was two-fold; first, to throw the of the State where I reside, any one de- probate business of the country into a sires that kind of a court, but it was court more competent to manage it; sec strenuously advocated by gentlemen rep- ondly, to relieve circuit courts from the resenting other portions of the State, and trial of misdemeanors, appeals from jus if that section is preserved as reported by tices of the peace and police magistrates, the committee, it will permit those sec- and such civil cases as might be deemed tions of the State which desire a court of advisable. A disposition was early mani that kind, to have it; but when they get fested by members of the Judiciary Com it, it will blot out of existence entirely mittee, to increase the size ofthe circuits. their county court, for that is the express To do that, in many cases it became nec provision of the section as reported by' essary to relieve the circuit courts of the committee, the language being- much of the smaller class of business "which, when established, shall be substi- with which they are now overburdened. tuted in the place of county courts" In order to do that, some court had to be Now, if they are substituted in the place provided, to which the business could be of county courts, they must take their thrown. place, and annul the county courts. That If this business is given to the county was the clearly expressed view of the court, as at present organized, in many committee. They did it for the purpose counties it would result in a mere farce, of meeting the wants of certain quarters for the reason that the county judges of the State which desired that kind of themselves are regarded and elected only a court, instead of the county court. And as a sort of dignified justice of the peace, it is claimed that it will save expense and with no more education, no more capa secure a better grade of talent, where city for the trial of cases than any ordin these courts may be established. ary justice of the peace. The CHAIRMAN. The question is up- It was deemed necessary, therefore, to on the motion of the gentleman from adopt some system by which to insure Fulton [Mr. Ross], to strike out section enlarged talent and education for the twenty-three. courts thus to be organized. Under the Mr. SCHOLFIELD. Mr. Chairman: old system, that could not be expected in It is with great diffidence, in conse- the smaller counties. A lawyer, compequence of having been absent during a tent to discharge the high and responsiconsiderable portion of the discussion of ble duties of such a judge, could not be the judiciary article, that I under- induced to relinquish a practice for the take to talk about the section under rfeagre compensation of a county judge, consideration. I feel, however, that in a small county. To place, at the exit is proper and right for me, as a pense of one of those small counties, a member of the Judiciary Committee, and competent man upon the bench, and pay as having been favorable, in some meas- him what his services are worth, would ure, to the idea embodied in section impose an onerous and unjust burden upon twenty-three of the report, to say some the tax-pavers. It was thought the diffifew words in explanation of the policy culty could be obviated by providing which governed those who were in favor that the persons filling such judgeships of the system of courts contemplated by should be elected by districts, the size of that section. those districts to be fixed by the Legisla It is an entire misapprehension on the ture, under such limitations as would part of any gentleman, who thinks that insure their being made large enough to it was in the design of the members of justify the employment of a man of cathe committee, who proposed the adop- pacity and integrity to discharge the tion of these courts, that the number of duties of the office, paying him from the courts or the number of judges in the district, and not from single counties, as State should thereby be increased. Such under the present system. The number was not the intention, nor would such be of judges would be decreased-the numthe practical effect, if it should be carried ber of courts would not be increased, out; but, upon the contrary, the direct because the common pleas court would reverse would be true. supersede the county court. In this way I do not feel called upon, sir, at this it was believed we could relieve the cirtime, to say anything with regard to the cuit court, make the circuits larger, and intermediate appellate courts. Other decrease the number of circuit judges. gentlemen who were much more partial This would not introduce into the judito that system than myself, will, of course, ciary system any discordant or novel feaat the proper time, defend it. It is suf- ture, nor would it entail any additional ficient now to observe that, while that expense upon the people. does make an additional court, it does This system has been practically in not increase the expense of the judiciary force in our neighboring State, Indiana, to the State. It makes no additional for the last twenty years. It has met, so judge; it creates no additional clerk. far as I am informed, with universal favor It is not a new and untried experiment there. Prior to the adoption of the Inin the United States. The same system diana Constitution of 1850, they had a is practically in force in the State of New probate system nearly, if not entirely, York, in the State of Ohio, in the State analagous to ours. That system was abolof Missouri, and in many other of the ished by the adoption of the common States of the Federal union. So early as pleas system. The common pleas judge 1847, I believe, the State of New York instead of holding courts in a single adopted that system, and i~ their recent county, holds them in districts — just as the circuit judge holds court with us transacts all the probate business and a vast amount of criminal and c ivil business. In thi s ma n ner the jails are re lieved of all minor offenders four times a year, oftener than they are now with us. Appeals are tried, collections are made, justice generally administered satisfactorily and promptly, while no additional expense is entailed upon the State. [Here the hammer fell.] ["Go on," "go on."] Mr. HAYES. I hope, Mr. Chairman, that leave to proceed will be given to the gentleman from Clark [Mr. Scholfield]. We do not fully understand wleat is pro posed by this system of courts of common pleas, and as the gentleman seems to un derstand it, I hope he will be permitted to develop his views more fully. [" Leave," "leave!" " Go on!"] Mr. SCHOLFIELD. I owe it to the com mittee, Mr. Chairman, that I should apol ogize for the desultory manner'in which I have spoken. Not knowing but this question had passed from the consideration of the committee, until it was called up, I had given it no immediate reflection, and my remarks, of necessity, have had to be very general. Mr. TURNER. The gentleman is not perhaps aware that the section has been amended so as to strike out the provision that these courts shall be substituted for the county courts. I cannot vote for the section in the shape it is now, that these courts shall be in addition to the county courts. I wish to inform the gentleman of that fact, as he was not here, and I was not aware until a few minutes ago that the amendment had been adopted. Mr. SCHOLFIELD. It is proper that I should say to the committee, Mr. Chairman, that I am in no measure responsible for the precise phraseology of this section, nor am. I its special advocate. I am speakingEonly as to a general system which I myself am in favor of, if I can have the concurrence of enough members of the committee to secure its adoption. I have drawn up a proposition, in language which suits me much better than this embodied in section twenty-three. It is as follows: There shall be established in each of the counties of this State, a court of record, of uniform organization and jurisdiction throughout the State, to be styled "the court of common pleas." Said court shall have exclusive jurisdiction in all matters of probate, in all cases of appeal from justices of the peace and police magistrates, in all criminal cases where the punishment shall be -. —, and in all civil cases where the amount in controversy does not exceed dollars. Mr. WHEATON. I will inlquire of the gentlemnan from Clark [Mr. Scholfield], whether he would not be willing to amend the substitute so that it shall apply only to those counties that shall need this system, and not enforce it upon those which do slot?9 I understand there are counties that need this system. I am so informed by members of this body, and of course I feel disposed to give them the system; but in manly other portions of the State they do not desire it, but desire the present easy mode of settling estates in county courts. This system would delay in our portion of the State, the settlement of estates unnecessarily. If it could be so framed as to suit those portions of the State where it would be advantageous, I for one would be most decidedly in favor of the proposition. t CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTiON THURSDAY, 1106 MoH 10,1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1107 of being profitable, gets the people into trouble; and I have known, not unfre quently, in the brief practice I have had at the bar, cases originating from improp er advice given by county judges. The office of county judge is not created by law, to give advice to people that come to transact business before that court. So far as merely setting from day to day, and receiving reports, looking over accounts current, issuing letters of guardianship, letters of administration, and all that class of basiness is concerned, the county clerk can transact it just as well as the county judge does. Indeed in very many places this business is now entirely done by the county clerk. The cases where judicial decision is required can be, without inconvenience, referred to and decided by courts. I believe it is estimated that about once in thirty years, on an average, every dollar's worth of property in the county passes through the probate court. Rights of the gravest character, interests the most important in their consequences, are entrusted to these courts to be decided. Why, the interests entrusted to the circuit judges are not more momentous. They are called upon oftener than any other court to protect a class of persons who are unable to protect themselves. Lunatics, idiots, and minor orphans all have the management of their estates entrusted to these tribunals. How important then that they should be filled by men of capacity, men of integrity, men who are not only willing to do, but know what to do. But it may be said, "if anything is wrong, appeals may be taken from the probate judge." How can appeals be taken or writs of error prosecuted to do any good, when, by the time the child is of age, and has the requisite knowledge and capacity, all his property has been squandered? He is deprived of the beneficial effects of appeal by lapse of time, in most cases. But no correction of the errors committed by the judge, through neglect or ignorance, will restore that which has ceased to be. Mr. HAINES, of Lake. Mr. Chairman: I would like to know how this system removes the ignorance of the officer? Mr. SCHOLFIELD. Mr. Chairman: I propose to make judgeships which necessarily will be filled by gentlemen of talent and legal education; to pay a sufficient salary to secure such qualifications. Mr. HAINES, of Lake. The gentleman talks of the honesty ofjudges. Mr. SCHOLFIELD. Mr. Chairman: I am talking of the want of sense. We want men, not only of honesty, but of capacity. As much danger may be apprehended from want of capacity in a judge, as from a want of honesty. I may be mistaken about the effect of the adoption of this system, but I believe it can be adopted in lieu of the present probate system, that it would meet the approbation of the people, and that instead of costing them more money, it will cost them-less, and that instead of increasing litigation, it will lesson it. There is no need of appeal frQm this court. An appeal can be taken directly to the s upreme court. Mr. FOX. Mr. Chairman: I wish to offer a substitute for the section. The Clerk read the substitute offered by Mr. Fox, as follows: The General Assembly may establish courts of record in this State, to be styled courts of common pleas, of uniform Lorganization and jurisdiction, in districts of one or more coun ties of not less than - population, which, when established, shall be substituted in the place of county courts, and shall exercise such extended powers and jurisdiction as is provided in sections eighteen and nineteen of this article. The judges of said courts of com mon pleas shall be elected in such districts by the qualified electors thereof, and have such qualifications, and receive such compensa tion, and be paid in such manner as may be provided by law. Mreir. ROSS. Mr. Cha irman: I su bmit whether the proposition is in order. The CHAIRMAN. The motion pend ing is to strke out the twenty-third sec tion. A division was ordered. The committee divided, when, there being thirty-one in the affirmative and seventeen in the negative, the motion was not agreed to. Mr. FOX. Mr. Chairman: I insist on my substitute. Mr. ROSS. Mr. Chairman: I offered a substitute of the same character myself, a while ago, and it was ruled out. The CHAIRMAN. The question is on section twenty-six. That is the section now pending. Mr. ROSS. Mr. Chairman: Is it in order to amend the'original section? The CHAIRMAN. Such has been the ruling. Mr. ROSS. I then move, Mr. Chairman, to strike out "fifty" in the second line, and insert "forty." The CHAIRMAN. The question is first on the motion of the gentleman from Fulton [Mr. Ross]. Mr. HAY. Mr. Chairman: Is it in order, when numbers are under consideration, to move to amend with either a higher or lower number? The CHAIRMAN. Yes, sir. Mr. HAY. I then move, sir, to fill the vacancy in the second line, after "fifty" is stricken out, with the number "seventyfive." I do this upon some little consideration, and observation of what may probably be the wants of large counties, with respect to the necessity of additional courts. Now, take my own county [Sangamon] — and I would appeal to gentlemen who reside in counties of population somewhat near the population of this —whether it is, or is not true, that whilst their county courts may be nominally kept open for business, yet during the whole year they might, by an orderly disposition of their business, do quite a considerable amount of civil business, and yet not materially interfere with the discharge of the ordinary probate business of their counties. It seems to me that a county judge, making any approach to competency, in a county of the size of Sangamon, or Adams, or McLean, or St. Clair, or any of these large counties where the probate business does not now require actually the consumption of more khan half the time, co)uld, if there was some system in the manner of administering the court, if civil jurisdiction was conferred upon these courts in counties ranging in th~e neighborhood of the present popula. tion of those counties, to the extent conternplated by the provisions already adopted, dispose of that business and the ordinary probate business in populations approximating to the counties I Mr. SCHOLFIELD. As a matter of courtesy and personal kindness towards the delegates that have different views upon this question, I certainly would be disposed to accede to the suggestion made by the gentleman from Kane [Mr. Wheaton]. As a delegate representing the people of the State in a Constitutional Convention, called upon to adopt a system for the welfare of the whole people, my judgment would be decidedly against having one system in one place, and another in another. I much prefer, if this system cannot be adopted, that we harmonize on some other system which shall be uniform throughout the State. I may say now, that I am not wedded at all to this plan. I feel, however, that it is due to the committee it shall have a fair hearing, and as full an explanation as I, in my poor way, can make in regard to it. I much prefer that we shall retain our present system to having any thing like one system in one county, and another in another county. It must be manifest, that if we should undertake to do that, we might destroy entirely the idea of creating districts or circuits; because in the formation of a circuit, the first county that we wantedto add to a circuit might object, and there end it; so that creating a circuit would cause great trouble, if it would not be absolutely impossible throughout the State. If we can adopt this system, in my opinion it is much the best. If we cannot adopt it, let us adopt some system that will be applicable to the entire State. I was intending some moments ago, when interrupted, to remark that the object of the gentleman from Perry [Mr. Wall], myself and other members who favored the idea of adopting a court of common pleas. was that it should be a quarterly court, meeting as often as four times a year; that it should have jurisdiction to try all Misdemeanors, and the lower grades of felonies; appeals from justices of the peace and police magistrates, and such other limited civil actions as might be agreed upon. This would relieve the counties of the burdensof paying jail fees six months consecutively, as now frequently happens before trial, and enable creditors to make speedy collections of their debts. Our idea was that a large mass of business, which the probate court is now kept constantly in session to transact, could be transactedl, as in Indiana, where this system is in force, by the county clerk —I mean that class of busi:ness which is purely ministerial, such as the issuing of letters of administration, letters of guardianship —and that nothing need necessarily be referred to the determination of the courts, except that which required judicial decision. When a judicial decision should be required, it could he obtained from a comptetent person whose decision would be respected. But now in very many counties throughout the State, the decision of the probate judge is no more respected, and ought not to be, than the decision of any justice of the peace in the colunty. So far as being an advisory officer to administrators or executors is concerned, all lawyers know that that amounts to nlothing. If he happens to be a good lawyer, and is able thereby to give good advice, it would be a matter of great convenience to the people; but if he happens not to know what he is lalking about, if he is simply an old ass, his advice, instead MAROA 10, 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1107 1108 COSTITUITIONAL c'OYETIO THsDAY, Mr. SKINNER. Mr. Chairman: I wish simply to say that the question of p whether this section ought to be preserved, deserves consideration in view of the m fact that the county court may have very p large jurisdiction, and its time be so fully f oeccupied that it will be unable to attend to the constantly recurring wants of the probate business-the granting of admin- g istrations, the settlements of estates, the taking charge of insane persons, appointini g conservators-and especially where the population is large. The people come into court, week in and week out, to have some trifling business transacted in rela tion to the estates of deceased persons. It is a domestic court purely for the pro tection of the weak, and ought always to be open, and accessible to that class of persons. I suggest, with due respect to gentlemen, whether the county court may not be constantly employed, and if it is not better to leave the door ooen, so that the General Assembly may provide for a county judge to attend to these domestic matters. Mr. DEMENT. Mr. Chairman: All the advantages gentlemen desire the peo ple should enjoy from the probate court, provided for in this contingency stated in section twenty-six, I regard as within their reach, under the jurisdiction of the county courts provided for in sec tion eighteen of this article. I have yet to learn in my experience and observation that there has been any delay in the trans action of probate business in the present probate courts. There is not so much business that a court under the name of the county court, having jurisdiction of the same cli ss of cases mentioned by the gentleman, if the court is sitting continu ously, might not be able to transact with reasonable promptness, and having con tinuous business, it is a court more ready at all times to transact the business of h, tese meritorious people, and cases men tioned by the gentleman from Adams [Mr. Skinner.] If we have two courts, and there should not be business for the court to continue in session, then persons may have to wait; but if business should 'tbe multiplied, so the court would be re q,iired to continue in session, the people would then, at all times, be present, at tend'ing to their business. The character of cases that are mentioned do not always teen. ~~~~~~~~occupy a great deal of time. I have beenotebuieshhano chreonS~c.19.The eneal Asemly my cnfc Persons will come in with their cases, andalthsprvsosifwsathjui coutie hvin mre hanfity hosan ~ if the court should not be personallycilcrutsalcnitonolesta ulaton,butsuc juisdctin sallbe ut-present, the county clerk takes the papers 9,0 ouain fw ofradtoa form. ~~~~~~~and arranges them, when the parties in jrsito pncut ors twl Now,if n cuntes o fity houandmost cases, can return to their homes; and b eesr o s nm pno,t popuatin, ddiionl juisdctin i towhen the court is in session, their matters poiefrapoaejde ftepo be cnfered thre oul beconideabl are taken up. vso srtie httejdca ici propiety inthos coutie, inalloing If it is necessary that the party should salhv o esta 000 twl the robae cort t be eparted rombe present when the court isin session, thefocthconyoMcenfointne the ount. A anyrate inmy jdg-clerk informs them when the court willinodrtreivthcicijug,t mont, if w~~~~~~~e adp eto wnysx n 0in session, if it should not be so at theadpthseto cofrigetne mak th poulaionreuird fr te adi time. But, if perche nce, under sectionjuidcinuothconycut tioal ursditio, evety-iv thusad,eighteen, there should not be business I htcut mstsidta h w enough to employ a county court all maketha setio co~spnd,so hatthethe time, I Cannot see how it would beprbtbuiesadteohrbsns whol sytemwil oprat hamonousy -better for the poople, and better for thearsnfrmtiinraejuidcin The CAIRMN. Th quetion s oncourt, to divide the business. TeCARA. Teqeto so themotonof he enlemn fomSana-I As to the accumulation of small cases, temto ftegnlmnfo e mon Mr. ay] to trik ou in he scon will say there is a~section of this article r.Dmn]tosrkousetotwn lin, te wrd~ift," nd nset "evety.providing for the appointment of justicestysx live." ~~~~~~~of.the poeaso. asTheir jurisdiction may be MrELRDE MrChimn I The motion was not to.extended, sasto relieve the county courthoetathmointstieotti ngreed ~~of a great many small cases. scinwl o rvi.Iarewt Mr. DEMENT. Mr Cha~ira:Imv I certainly believe that our countythgeteafrmMea [M.Bna to strie out sction tent~ix.courts will be sufficient to do all the busim],iwht-h tts~ rfrnet have mentioned, so that there would be no necessi ty f or separating the probate business in counties ranging in the neighborhood of fifty thousand inhabitants. When we get in the neighborhood of seventy-five thousand, with the natural increase in the amount of probate business, and in the increase that might arise in that class which might be conferred under the sections that have been adopted, in regard to county courts, there might be a necessity for separating the two jurisdictions; but, so far as my observation goes, it would not be necessary in counties of thirty or fifty thousand inhabitants. For that reason, I would move that the limitation be increased. In a few years these counties will approximate seventyfive thousand population, as Sangamon, Adams, and many other large counties. When that time arrives, it will be soon enough to confer this additional jurisdiction. I am afraid that if we give power to the Legislature to confer it on counties of fifty thousand population, it will be asked for; and I am for postponing that until we have reason to believe there is necessity for it. I think it should not be conferred on counties with less than sev enty-five thousand inhabitants; that no necessity can arise, in a county of less population, for separating the jurisdic tion of the probate business and the administration of the ordinary civil busi ness that has been conferred by the pre vious article on county courts. Therefore, I move to strike out fifty thousand and insert seventy-five thousand. Mr. UNDERWOOD. - Mr. Chairman: We have already provided for three classes of county courts. The first class has the same jurisdiction now exercised by county courts. The second class is where, if the people vote at a general election for additional jurisdiction, they are allowed additional jurisdiction up to five hundred dollars, in a certain class of cases, over which justices of the peace now have jurisdiction to the amount of one hundred dollars, and have also juris diction of cases appealed from justices of the peace. The third class we have provi ded for is, that where a county has more than fifty thousand population, addition al jurisdiction, uniform, etc., may be giv en to such county courts. I call the at tention of the committee to section nine teen. SEC. 19. The General Assembly may confer other jurisdiction upon county courts for counties having more than fifty thousand pop ulation, but such jurisdiction shall be uni form. N~ow, if in counties of fifty thousand population, additional jurisdiction is to be conferred, there would be considerable propriety, in those counties, in allowing the probate court to be separated from the county. At any rate, in my judg ment, if we adopt section twenty-six, and make the population required for the addi tional jurisdiction, seventy-five thousand, we ought to amend section nineteen, and make that section correspond, so that the whole system will operate harmoniously. The CHAIRMAN. The question is or the motion of the gentleman from Sanga mon [Mr. Hay], to strike oult in the second line, the word "fifty," and insert "seventy. :five." The motion was not'agreed to. M~r. DEMENT. Mr Chairman: I mlove to strike out section twent~ix. ness imposed upon them, including the probate business of the county. I, for one, am very desirous that our laws should be made as efficientland as easy of access as is possible, and at the same time, be as uniform and simple as possible, and, for this reason, I do not wish to vote for this section-multiplying and diversifying the grades of courts more than is absolutely necessary. Mr. BENJAMIN. Mr. Chairman: I trust that this section will not be stricken out. In view of the action that we have already taken, it seems to me that the business in certain portions of the State, could not be transacted without a separate probate court. We have one provision of this report, requiring that circuit courts shall not be created for a population of less than 90,000. We have adopted a provision by which the jurisdiction of county courts is extended. Now, the object of extending the jurisdiction of county courts is to relieve the circuit courts; but while we relieve the circuit courts we are giving that much more business to the county courts. The county court, in addition to the other extended jurisdiction, has exclusive appellate jurisdiction of all appeal cases from justices of the peace and police magistrates. That one class of cases alone will occupy a great deal of time. Take the county of McLean: it has nearly 50,000 inhabitants. In our present circuit we have McLean, Logan and DeWitt, which have about 90,000 inhabitants. If we retain the provision that has been reported by the committee that judicial circuits shall contain not less than 90,000 population each, these same counties will remain in our circuit. The business of the circuit is now crowded. In two of those three counties, the court is behind the docket, and the press of business is so great that although our judge is rapid in the transaction of business, it is impossible to keep up with the docket. Now, if we adopt the provision with regard to circuit courts, while we relieve the circuit judge on the one hand, we crowd the county judge on the other, with an immense amount of business. I personally know that the county judge of McLean has about all that he can do at the present time in giving his attention to the probate business and the other business he has now charge of according to law; and hence, if we adopt all these provisions, if we say the judicial circuit shall consist of not less than 90,000 population, if we confer additional jurisdiction upon county courts, it will be necessary for us, in my opinion, to provide for a probate judge. If the provision is retained that the judicial circuit shall have not less than 90,000, it will force the county of McLean, for instance, in order to relieve the circuit judge, to adopt the section conferring extended jurisdiction upon the county court. In that county I am satisfied that the county judge could not attend to the probate business and the other business arising from this increased jurisdiction. The CHAIRMAN. The question is on the motion of the gentlemnan from Lee [Mr. Dement], to strike out section twenty-six. Mr. ELDREDGE. Mr. Chairman: I hope that the motion to strike out this section will not prevail. I agree with the gentleman from McLean [Mr. Benjamin], in what he states an1 reference to I p i i s t I t t t i t I f I s t t f f e f s e s d e tr s THURSp)sAiy CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION 1108 MAROII 10, 1870. 1)E13ATES AXI) PflOThIXGS. 11o my experience is to this (-ffect, that our judge of probate is not occupied one fiftht of his tinme in the discharge of all the bu iness over which he has j urisdiction. It may be we are a more healthy popu lation, and have fewer dead me-n's estates to settle than in those counties where the judges are so overwhelmed with probate business, as stated. If I were satisfied that this demand for additional judges arose from such cases, my sympathy would of course induce me to withdraw my propo sition. But, with my experience, I feel satisfied we are acting ill good faith Uni der the belief that a county with over 50,000 or 60,000 population cannot need this additional judge. In relation to the crowded condition of the circuit courts in the circuits of a pop ulation of 90,000, I think in section eighteen we provide relief for those courts. A great deal of the business which takes up the time of those courts, such as misdemeanors and small criminal cases, is given to the county courts. We also increase the jurisdiction of the county courts in civil and mnany ot her cases, which also tends to relieve the circuit courts. I think the system would be more simple, uniform, less expensive and equally efficient, if this section were stricken out. Mr. MEDILL. Mr. Chairman: Before the vote is taken upon striking out section twenty-six, I move an amendment to strike out fifty thousand and insert sixty thousand. In the large counti(s of the State, there may arise a necessity for a court of this kind. In the county I represent, the people will certainly need a probate court. We have three or four propositions before us which seem to all hang together, and are parts of the same general idea. If we disturb one part, we disturb several others. All relate to each other, and in any change we may make we must not overlook that fact. After listening to the explanation of the gentleman from Clark [LMr. Scholfield], it occurs to me that what he and those who concur with his views are seeking to atta in, might b)e provided for as follows: Going back to section eighteen, add the followit g after the second line. I will first read the two lines: SEc. 18. There shall be elected, in and for each county, by the electors thereof, one judge and one clerk of the county court that e wi l no put this imit tion upon whose terms of office shall be f oeur a years.th ca s of i, a d i p s hi h r d t e th L gi la ur, nd fo bi t e re ti n N o w add these words: — n t a o r - h n t e p o l i l p o of a iud e of pro ate n s ch c unt es. - But the General Assembly may create dis- v d u t b e m n t e f r h m tricts ot two or more counlties, in each of - The ece sit for it s n t fu ly ppr ct- whic h shall be elected one judge, w ho shall be i v th t i ev r co n y i Il i o s ated at t e pr sent time Pro ate usi take t ie place and exercise all the powers h v n i t e h u a d o o e o i h b ness is o su h a atur th t it will in- and jurisdiction of county judges in such di s- i a t, i e h d a o t d s c i n e g t e As t e c unt y b com s ol er, the set le- I understand the gentleman from Clark in e c co n y th pe p e w u d el c a men s o es ate wi l r qui e m ch rea - [Mr. S eliolfield] to sa y that would meet go d l w e fo co n y j d e a ma er tte ti n t anat he re ent ti e, nd his views. When the proper time comes, e r e n t e l w o p t n, c p b e will be uch mor tho oug ly nve ti- I will offer that amendment to section h n s, a d q a i i d f r t e d s h r e o g a t e, s o t h a i n o u n i e s a v i g c o n t y e i g h t e e n.t h d u i s o n t e g o n t h t n o t e cour s of enl rged civ l ju isd ctio in Mr. Chairman, the trouble in regard to c a s o e o l n w r t e p r o e pop lou c~ nti s, he nec ssi y s ems to county courts is that we need a better M. D T N. S p o e a c u t u g be c ear tha we sho ld, as me sur ofclass of cou nlty judges than we now have h s al t e b s n s e c n d - o l pre aut on re ain th s s cti n wen y-s x. in a large majority of the counties. The th pe p e b le s l k l to s l c a I d ho e, ir, tha th co mit ee ay judge should be a man learned in the la y r t di c a g th du i s a d fl th con lu e t r pos s me on ide ce in he law. If the Committee of the Whole of i eo co n y j d e ha i g j r s i t o Legislatue in thi matter.had taken steps, when considering section o l rbt uies hnte ol Mr. DE EN~. M. Chai man: A eighteen, to provide for a better class of if h be c l e a pr b t ju g, a d h v word r tw mor Gentemen havejudges, all the objection urged against evnlsbuies giv n t eir exp rie ce nd now edg as the extended jurisdiction given in the M. M D L. M. C a r a: I d argu ent. I w ll g ve m ow. I ep- section, would have be en obviated. n t t i k t e g n l m n e a t y u d r rese t a cou ty ith alf the pop la- In Ohio, there was once some such st n s t e b a i g o my r m r s I tion of hat rep ese ted y t e g ntl man trouble as is complained of in regard to ha e b e ar u n th t i we r s r c fro Mc ean L~r Be jam~ n] I ill~ y these courts. Turn to the present Ohio t e e c u t,t e e p o a e b s n s h the necessity of retaining this provision; and I desire to call the attention of the committee to the fact that we have adop ted section nineteen, which provides that the General Assembly may confer other additional j urisdiction upon county courts for counties havirg more than fifty thou sand population, but such jurisdiction shall be uniform. It must be apparent to every one, that when the Judiciary Com mittue framed this section twenty six, thev had in view the fact that they had provided for conferring additional juris diction on county courts having a popula tion exceeding fifty thousand. The Constitution of New York, which was adopted i-n 1847, contained a similar provision. That Constitution provided for establishing these separate probate courts, in all counties having a population exceeding forty thousand, and in the proposed Constitution that was framed in the Convention recently held in that State, this provision occurs: - The county judge shall also be surrogate of his county, but in counties having a population exceeding forty thousand, the Legislature may provide Tor the election of a separate officer to be surrogate, whose term of office shall be the same as that of the county judge. There they fix the minimum at loi-ty thousand, while in this article we have fixed it at fifty thousand upon the supposition that the Legislature may hereafter confer upon counties having exceedling fifty thousand population,, additional civil jurisdiction. Now, the circuit, in which is situated the county I represent- LaSalle-is composed of the county of LaSalle, having about sevedty thousand population, the county of Bureau, having over forty thousand, and the county or Kendall, which I am informed by my friend from K~ane [~Mr. Wheaton] contains fifteen thousand. I know, as a fact, that in our county the time of the county judge is almost wholly consumed, when he is noot holding his terms, for the transac tion of civil business, with the probate business of the county. Now, -we have stricken out this provision in reference to the court of common pleas, and whatever relief we are to get in the transaction of the general litigation is to} be obtained through these county courts; and when we have said here that county courts in counties hiavinDg over fifty thousand population shall be invested with this add; i t t t t .MAI?.CH 10, 1870. D.El3ATES AND PROCEEDTNGS. 1109 Constitution, and yoti will find that, in establishing a probate court, it confers the following additional power and j uris diction"Aid such otherjurisdiction as may be provided by law." After the Legislature extended the powers and jurisdiction of the probate courts in Ohio, the people be-an at once to elect competent men for judges, not first class attorneys in all cases, but lawy(,rs of good standing, and reputed to be honest and competent. Not a non-professior.-al iudze has been elected, as far as my knowledge goes, in any county of that State. Now, if we give to those county courts jurisdiction only in probate business, the people will continue to elect justices of the peace, or persons having biit little legal acquirements; they will continue to act on the hypothesis that a lawyer is not needed. But if we give that court some civil and criminal j urisdictiod, the people will see that they must have a judge who understands the law and law terms. That is the inevitable result. The people, sir, - will always furnish men competent for what is required, and if they make a blunder once, they invariably correct it the next time. Now, we have been proceeding upon the other hypothesis in this whole matter of county courts-tbat we must strip them of duties and jurisdiction because they are filled with incompetent men. But, -ir, they are so filled because the duties to be performed do not require the services of experts in legal science, and we have taken no steps to rectify that mistake. The way to rectify it is to impose a higher class of duties on that office. Then we will call in a higher class of qualification to discharge those duties. That is the philosophy of the whole matter. In the smaller counties there is not busine,,Qs enough for one judge who would be competent to discharge any legal business that might arise under the provisions of section eighteen, and it may be better to group three or four of those small c,,)unties together. But even if that is done, we will not obtain skillful jud-es, unless we furnish more jurisdiction, more duties than are provided for in section ei-hteen, as amended, or rather as emasculated. If it is desirable to corre. —t this evil, we t CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION Mr. HAINES, of Cook. Mr. Chair man: I am in favor of the motion of the gentleman from Lee [Mr. Dement], and the reason is because, as I said yesterday, I am opposed to this multiplication of officers and places to be filled, by putting expenses upon the people which they have not yet called for, and which, I believe, they will not indorse. Now, I agree with my colleague on my left [Mr. Medill], that if we had given larger jurisdiction to the county courts, if we had made them more respectable, it would not be necessary to have this section which is now before us. We propose to make the court simply a probate court. Now, then, the Constitution of the State of Ohio reads thus: There shall be established in each county, a probate counrt, which shall be a court of record, open at all times. Its jurisdiction is as follows: The probate court shall have jurisdiction in p robate and testamentary matters; the appointment of administrators and guardians; the settlement of the accounts of executors, administrators and guardians; and such jurisdiction in habeas corpus, the issing of marriage licenses, and for the sale of land by executors, administrators and guardians, and such other ju risdiction in any county or counties, as may be provided by law. The probate courts provided for in this Constitution, as to all matters within the jurisdiction conferred upon said courts, shall be the successors in the several counties ot' the present courts of common pleas; and the records, files and papers, business and pro ceedings appertaining to said jurisdiction, shall be transferred to said courts of probate, and be there proceeded in accurding to law. There is a court called a "probate court" under the Constitution of the State of Ohio, but which may perform any other duties that may be prescribed by law. Now, in the article under consideration here, we have provided that the j udiciary of the State shall consist of one supreme court, of circuit courts, of county courts, j ustices of the peace, police magistrates, and such other courts as may be created by law for cities having more than five thousand inhabitants; and in the body of this article we have provided for inter mediate courts. There was, originally a provision for a court of common pleas,, and also a probate court, in addition to those provided fi)r in section one of this , article. It is multiplying offices and plat ces for men to draw their salaries from the public. I am for constituting only - the number of courts which are needed, e and if we are to have a probate court at K all, I am in favor of not establishing it, - except the county ha~ at least one huns dred thousand population. In our county, - the population of which is about four I hundred thousand, I believe we have a i county court, and that county court does r the probate businessof the county. t It certainly is not busy any more than - all the time, and I fancy that a court that , has done exclusively the probate business i of that county, can certainly attend to e the entire business of a county of one e hundred thousand, at least. But inase much as we have previously put upon the cI county courts the probate business, and s' such other duties as the Legislature may t- prescribe by law, from time to time, I do y not see the necessity of this at all, for the n Legislature may make the county jud es o1 exclusively probate judges, where they e have a population sufficient to keep them r busy all the time. I am opposed to mul tiplying places, I am opposed to this in people will select laymen, as a rule, to officer thein. They will be governed in the grade of candidates by the nature of the duties to be performed & general belief prevails that for mere probate business almost any justice of the peace is qualified to do it, and so the people select county judges from a class who would be utterly unqualified to sit in judgment on business transacted in accordance with legal formalities and practice. Mr. DEMENT. If we provide that a judge who has jurisdiction of all the probate business in the county, shall also have jurisdiction of other cases, I ask if the people will be less likely to select a good lawyer, because we give him jurisdiction of other than probate cases? Mr. MEDILL. Unquestionably. That is just what I am arguing-what I am affirming. Suppose we abolish this whole system of county judges, and throw their duties into the district courts, will the people turn around and select incompetent men for circuit judges, because this class of business has been assigned to district courts'? Will they not continue to select just as competent judges then as now? Certainly they will. As we reduce or abridge the importance of the duties, the people will select officers of reduced and abridged qualifications-necessarily, logically, they will. It is the universal experience. As we impose more delicate functions on an officer, the people will search for men qualified to discharge those more intricate duties. If we would improve the county judges, we must impose on them business calling for higher standard of legal knowledge. We nmst add to the jurisdiction of those courts, a class of business that will require the services of a man learned in the law, and then the people will be certain to elect a man learned in the law; but if we give these courts onlv such business as does not require, in their opinion, a man learned in the law, they will select judges who are unlettered in the law; for that class of candidates comes into the field and coim pete for these offices, while in the other case they would be rejected and hooted away. They could be nominated in no convention; they could be elected by no constituency; for the unanswerable objec tion would be raised against such a can didate that he was not properly qualified, and the voters would ask, i'What de you know about law practice, or pleadings, or proceedings; about criminal or civil juris prudence, or Blackstonle, or Chilly, or Kent, or.Greenleaf, or any of these things? Yo~u are not suited for this kind of busi ness; we must have a man who is." Thus the people would talk and reason. Com mon sense, after all, is a pretty general article among the people, and they will select, as I have said, the right man for the right place. If we give there a petty office to fill, they will fill it with a suite bin man; if we give them a high officee they will fillit with a muan of the required qualifications. They will not rue a justice of the peace for a circuit or supreme judge, or vice versa. If the business of the court needs a la~wyer for judge, they wil select a lawyer for the place; if it doe: not, they will not. And the way to im prove the qualifications of the count5 court j udges, is to extend the j urisdictio~ of those courts so that their duties wil require a judge who understands th, science and art of the law. By no othe] method can we improve Gem. crease of taxation, and know we should pursue that course that wil l make as few places for taxa tion as p ossible. The CHAIRMAN. The question is upon the motion to strike out section twenty-six. Thie imotion was not agreed to. Mr. TRUESDALE. Mr. Chairman: I have a substitute which I would like to offer. The CHAIRMAN. There is a substitute pendinog. The question is u ooti the motion of the gentleman from Cook [Mr. Medill], to strike out fifty and insert sixty. Mr. MEDILL. I withdraw my amendment. The CHAIRMAN. The question is upon the motion of the gentleman from Fulton [Mr. Ross], to strike out fifty and insert forty. Mr. WASHBURN. Mr. Chairman: I call for a division of that question, and take the vote first in reference to striking out. The CHAIRMAN. The question is upon the motion to strike out the word fiftv in the second line. T'he motion was not agreed to. Mr. WAGNER. Now, sir, I offer my amendment. The Clerk read the amendment offered by Mr. Wagner, as follows: Strike out all from the word "county" in second line to the word "whose" in the third line, atnd insert "whenever the electors of such county shall require such court by a majority vote at any general election and" Mr. SKINNER. Mr. Chairman: The amendment offered by the gentleman would produce a great deal of complication. The effect of the section is simply to leave to the General Assembly the creation of courts of probate where the public interests require it. The amend ment proposes that the General Assembly shall not act until the people of the par ticular county or locality have taken a vote on the question.- Now it would be very unusual to say in the Constitution, that the General Assembly should not pass an act until the people of some lo cality had first voted that they might do so. * Mr. WAGNER. The assumption by the friends of the article as reported, has been throughout this debate, that the county court will take the place, to a great extent, of our old probate system. This amendment merely provides that in cases where the people really require a probate court system ill addition t,' the county court system, they can have it by a majority vote. The CHAIRMAN. The question is upon the amendment offered by the gen tleman from Carroll [Mr. Wagerer]. The Clerk read section twenty six, as proposed to be amended by Mr. W~agner, ,as follows. ;SEa. 26. The General Assembly may pro> vide for the establishment of a probate court ,in each county whenever the electors of such can unty shall require such court by a ma jorit~y vote at any general election, and whose -term of offie sh1all be the same as that of the c ounty judge, and who shall be elected at the Lsame time and in the same manner. Said court shall have exclusive jurisdiction of all probate matters, the settlement of estates of ) deceased persons, the appointment of gu-ar'dians and conservators and settlements of 3 their accounts, and in all matters relating to 7 apprentices. XThe amendment was not agreed to. -Mr. MOORE. I wish tooflor an amend ment. 4, THURSDAY, 1110 AOii 10 17. DBTS POED S., 111 The Clerk read the section as proposed to be amended by Mr. Tuesdale, as follows: The General Assembly shall provide by general law fo)r the establishment of probate courts in such counties as may require them and provide olbr the election of judges thereof, whose terms ofoffice shall be the same as that or county judges, and who shall be, elected at the same time and in the samne manner. Said court shall have exclusive jurisdiction of all pr(obate matters, the settlement of estates of dcceased persons, the appointment of guardians and conservators and settlements of their accounts, and in all matters relating to apprentices. Mr. HAYES. Mr. Chairman: The amendment is not properly an amend melnt to my amendment. It proposes to strike out more than my amendment does. It is therefore not in order while my amendment is pending. The Clerk read section twenty-six, as proposed to be amended by Mr. Hayes, as follows: I cannot retreat, and so much of the amend:ment as relates to "fifty thousand" will be declared out of order. The amend ment is in o rde r w it h that exception. Mr. TRUESDALE. I then withdraw the amend ment. Mr RER r. PARKER. Mr. Chairman: I move the fi)llowing ame ndment. The Clerk read the amend ment offered by Mr. Parker, as follows: But no person shall be eligible to said office unless he shall have been admitted to the bar, and has a certificate from the circuit or su preme court of this State pertnitting said person to practice law before any court in this State. The amendment was not agreed to. Mr. HAINES, of Cook. MAr. Chair man: I offer the following amendment. The Clerk read the amendment offered by Mr. Haines, of Cook, as fbllows: The General Assembly shall provide by general law, in counties having over fifty thousand population, for the establishment of probate courts in such counties as may de sire them, and to provide for the election of j udges thereof, whose terms of office shall be the same as that of county judges, and who shall be elected at the same time and in the same manner. Mr. TRUESDALE. Mr. Chairman: I would submit if that is not exactly the proposition of the report of the Judi ciary Committee. Mr. HAINES, of Cook. No, sir. The CHAIRNIAN. The question is upon the amendment of the gentleman from Co k [LMr. Haines]. The amendment was not agreed to. The CH AIRMAN. The question is upon the substitute offered by the gen tleman from Schuyler [Mr. Fox]. The Clerk read the substitute offered by Mr. Fox, as follows: The General Assembly may establish courts of record in this State, to be styled courts of common pleas, of uniform organisztion and jurisdiction in districts of one or more coun ties, of not less than - population, which, when established, shall be substituted in the place of county courts, and shall exercise such extended powers and jurisdiction as is provided in sections eighteen and nineteen of this article. The judges of said courts of common pleas shall be elected in such districts by the quali fied electors thereof, and have such qualitica tions and receive such compensation, and be paid in such manner as may be provided by law. T he Cl erk read the amendmen t offered by Mr. Moore, as follows: Add to the end of l ine seven the words "said judge shall act as his own clerk." The amendm unt was not agreed to. Mr. HAYES. I offer the following amendment: Strike out the word "election," in the second line, and insert "appointment;" also, the words "and" to "manner," inclusive, in the third and fourth lines, and insert "who shall be appointed by the Governor, by and with the advice and consent of the senate. The'jbjtct of the amendment is to obtain the privilege of trying an important judicial officer und, r the system of appointment by the Governor, in preference to the other system, if it should be deemed advisable to make that change hereafter. I think the importance of the office of probate justice cannot be overestimated. The probate judge has under his control to a greater or less extent, all the property of the State; all of our estates pass through his hands, and I think it is very important to secure, by every mode ia our power, the selection of competent men. Now, sir, we already have a probate court in another section of this article. We have all the probate jurisdiction conferred upon the county judge. This section adds nothing to that other section — only changes the-name. We simply provide that in counties where the population is over fiftv thousand, we may change the name "coulty judge," to "probate hudge." Mr. HAINES, of Cook. They may make another j udge. Mr. HA-YES. Yes, and they may retain the county judge for other business. As it is now, the county judge has nothing to do with county business. I understand that in counties that have not adopted the township organization, the county commissioners' court constitute the whole county board. Mr. BROWNING. There is a county judge in each county. Mr. IIAYES. Under the new Constitution, I air, sure it is so. Under this article it is proposed to have a separate county commissioners' court. In counties that have adopted township organiz,tio)n, the county judge is not connected with the county business, but there is a board of supervisors who elect their own presi dent. If we create a probate judge, in addition to the county judge, wve simply take avway from the counlty judge his pro bate j urisdiction (leaving with him some civil and criminal j urisdiction), and transfer the probate jurisdiction to a probate judge. I do not think the object accomplished is a very important one; but an important object. would be accom plished if' we leave it in the discretion of the General Assembly, unlder certain cir cumstances, to provide that a probate judge shall be appointed by the Govern,or, in a class of counties. That may be lim ited as may be thought best. I do not now imagine, from indications I have seen, that the committee is ready for the appointmnent of judges; but I feel it my duty to make a mlove somewhere here to see if there are any votes in favor of ap pointing, a judge so important as this by the Governor. I will movre that amend ment. Mr. TRUESDAL:E. Mr. Chairman: I would offer an amendment to the amend ment proposed by the gentleman from Cook [~ir. Hayes].:~ SEC. 26. The General Assembly may provide for the establishment of a probate court in each county having over fifty thousanl. population, and for the appointment of a judge thereof whose lerm of' office shall be the same as that of the county judge, who shall be appointed by the Governor, by and m ith the advice and consent of the senate. Said court shall have exclusive jarisdiction of all probate matters, the settlement of estates of de(eased p -rsons, the appointment of guardians and conservators and settlements of their accounts, and in all matters relating to apprentices. I The CHAIRMIAN. The question ison the amendment of the gentleman from Cook [Mr. Hayes]. A division was ordered. The committee divided, when the amendment was not agreed to. The CHAIRMAN. The question is on the amendment of the gentleman from Rock Island [Mr. Truesdale]. Mr. HAINES, of Cook. Mr. Chairman: I move to amend the amendment by inserting the words "in counties having over fifty thousand population." Mr. SKINNER. That would leave it just as it is. Mr. HAINES, of Cook. Counties having that if they ask it. Air. TRUESDALE. Mr. Chairman: I will explain. My object is to obviate the fixing of these inflexible rules in the Constitution. Mr. HAINES, of Cook. Mr. Chair man: My object was to amend so that the Legislature could only put these pro bate courts upon counties that had that population, even though it might be asked for. It must be asked for by counties having that population. The CHAIRMAN. The Chair will state that the committee refused to strike out the words "fifty thousand;" therefore, that part of the amendment which pro poses to strike out those words cannot be entertained. After the Committee of the Whole have once refused to strike out, they cannot retreat from their position, Mr. TRUESDALE. Mr. Chairman: I will simply state to the Chair, that this is an entire change in the proposition. It alters the entire section, and is entirely different. The CHAIRMAN. The-Chair will state the position in which the committee now stands. Upon the motion-to strike out, the committee decided not to strike out "fifty thousand." The committee could be continued for weeks by motions to strike out a few simple words, for the purpose of getting out the "fifty thou sand." The committee reifsed to strike out, The substitute was not agreed t o. The CHAIRMAN. The question is now upon section twenty-six. The Clerk read section twenty-six, as follows: SEC. 26. The General Assembly may pro. vide for the establishment of a probate court in each county having over fifty thousand population, and for the election of a judge thereof, whose term of offlce — shall be the same as that of the county judg,e, and who shall be elected at the same time and in the same manner. Said court shall have exclusive jurisdiction of all probate matters, the settlement of estates of deceased persons, the appointment of guardians and conservators and settlements of tlheir accounts, and in all matters relating to apprentices. A divison was ordered. The committee divided, when section twenty-six was agreed to. The CHAIRMAN. The question is now on section twenty-seven. The Clerk read section twenty seven, as follows: JUSTICES OF TcIn PEACB e A. ND CO tdST iBLES. SEC. 27. Justices of the peace, police magistrates and constables shall be elected in and for such districts as are or may be provided by law. m 31ARCII 10, 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEE 1112 ~ ~ COSIITOA COVNJ-Tfi~DY which some of the counties of the State - can affo)rd a county attorney, will be suf ficienit to i sduce a qualified person to take the offilce. Therefor e I m ake this motion. Mr. ROSS. Mr. Chairman: I hope the amendment will not be made. Although there are a great many things in the report that I do not agree with, I think that this is a very valuable provision and should be adopted. It is apparent to observers of the proceedings of our courts, that a State't attorney who has charge of five or six counties, cannot very well un derstand the business of criminal proce cedure in the counties. I think it would be a great saving to have a county attor ney in each county, not only on account of the criminal business, but as a general advisor to the county authorities, protect ing the interests of the county in various ways, in the prosecution of bonds, recog nizances, and all these matters. I think it would be a great saving and a great benefit to the country, and I am in hopes that the provision ot the committee will be retained. The CHAIRMAN. The question is on the motion of the gentleman from White [MNfr. McDokwell], to strike out. The motion was not agreed to. Mr. MOORE. Mr. Chairman: I wish to offer the following amendment, and will say in offering it, that it is the old provision in the Constitution of 1848. We are making many officers, and many changes from the old Constitution. Let us have the Legislature share with us in some of the responsibility of these in novations. Strike out after the word "elected," in second line, and insert the following: "There shall be elected in each of the judi cial circuits of this State, by the qualified electors thereof, one State's Attorney, who shall hold his office for the term of four years and until his successor shall be c,)mmisioned and qualified, who shall perlortn such dutles and receive such compensation as may be prescribed by law: Provided, That the Gen eral Assemblv may hereafter provide by law for the election by the qualified voters of each county in the State, of one c(,unty attorney for each county, in lieu of the State's Attorney, provided for in this section, the term of offce, duties, and compensation of which county attorneys shall. be regulated by law. The amendment was not agreed to. The CHAIRMIAN. The question is upon the adoption of section twenty eight. Section twenty. eight was agreed to. Mr. McDOWELL. Mr. Cha;rman: I move the committee rise, report progress, and ask leave to sit again at two o'clockt. The motion was agreed to. eral e]ection, he will be more than human if he is not making trades, direct or in direct, with these elements that he be lieves have power with the voters of his district, be they high or low, good or bad, and thus the moral atmosphere, which should be his shield, is torn away, and he f stands defenseless against the polluting influences which he feels obliged to use f in his electioneering projects. We used to believe in my county, that when we had an important officer to elect-a man who had to fill the (ffice of judge or any other important office-we got a better man if his election was made t a special one, withdrawn from the in fluence of a general election; and if this official has a shorter term so that he can not be elected with the judge, I am in favor of giving him a longer term so that we can elect him with our judges, and thus be enabled to get a better man for the place. Mr. BAYNE. Mr. Chairman: I would like to ask the gentleman a question. Mr. HAINES, of Cook. Yes, sir. Mr. BAYNE. I would ask the gentle man if he was not elected at the general election last fall to the position he n,ow occupies? Mr. HAINES, of Cook. Yes, sir, I was. Mr. BAYNE. Then the rule worked well in this case, and I do not know why it would not work well anywhere. Mr. HAINES, of Cook. Mr. Chair man: It is, in my opinion, that if this Constitutional Convention had been elec ed at a special election, it would have been quite as well for the State as it is now. I am casting no reflections upon any member that I do not cast upon my self. We all came here under a general election. Our positions here have no pat ronage. We are not here to grant or rec ommend pardons. We are not here to l et uo on indictments, or any thin g of that kind, so that I do not thin k t he argumentt I was making properly applies to th is body. But it does apply to a prosecuting attorney. He is the most important offi cial that we have in this State, outside of the judges, and should be as for removed from the influences of a general election, particularly in our large towns, as it is possible to remove him; and I, for one, sir, hope that this committee will take that matter expressly under consideration and extend the term of that officer, so that he can be elected with the judges. ["Question," "question."] The CHAIRMAN. The question is on the motion of the gentleman from Ogle [Mr. Parker], to strike out certain por tions of section twenty-eight. The motion was not agreed to. Mr. McDOWELL. Mr. Chairman: I would amend by striking out "county," in the second line, and insert "judicial circuit," and in the fifth line strike otit "county" and insert "circuIt," and strike out and insert the same in the seventh and eighth lines. The object I have in view is to elect a State's attorney for each judicial circuit. I think, sir, that this would be preferable to having the county attorney in the cir cuit courts of the State. It is important, o think, sir, if we have county attorneys (which has not yet been passed upon) to procure an attorney who is sufficiently qualified and responsible to take the pdo sition of State's attorney in the circuit courts, but I do not think that the pay Section twenty-seven was agreed to. The CHAIRMAN. The question is on section twenty eight. STATE'S ATTORNEYS. Tile Clerk read section twenty-eight, as follows: SEC. 28. The present State's attorneys shall hold their offices until the expiration of the terms f or w hich they were elected. The electors of each county shall, at the time of the election for representatives in the General Assembly happening next preceding the exp iration of the terms f of office of the present State's attorneys, elect a State's attorney in and for each county, whose term of offoee shall be four years from said election (but who shall not enter upon the duties of office until the expiration of the term of office of his predecessor); and every four years thereafter the electors of each county shall elect a State's attorney for such county. Mr. PARKER. Mr. Chairman: The clause extending through the first line to the third line, as far as the word "elect. ed," is already provided for. The clause in parenthesis, in lines six and seven, from and including "but" to and including ':predecessor," is another repetition of the same kind. By striking that out we save some forty words. I inove to strike them out. All that is provided for in them, will be found in section forty-seven, lines five and six. Mr. BROWNING. Mr. Chairman: The section is a complete thing, as it is now. The use of a few additional words is not a matter of much consequence. The question being on the motion of Mr. Parker, to strike out, it was not agreed to. Mr. ROSS. Mr. Chairman: Inasmuch as we have determined to have the election of judges in June, I submit whether it is not better for prosecuting attorneys to be elected in June also. Mr. SKINNER. Mr. Chairman: This question was pretty thoroughly canvassed in the Committee on the Judiciary. As this office is for four years, while the judges are for six years, the judgment of the committee was that this matter should rather remain as it is now, and that State's attorneys be elected in November; otherwise cases might arise where there would have to be a special election, simply for State's attorneys. Mr. HAINES, of Cook. Mr. Chairman: I like the suggestion of the gentleman from Fulton [ta,r. Ross], very much. In the larger counties, if there is an office of great responsibility it it is that of State's attorney. Havingg some little knowledge of these thin~gs in my own locality, I believe I can say that that officer has agreater pressure brought to bear upon him in the criminal practice in Cook county, than any other one officer in the county. If we put him up at a general election, we will have the same experience to run~through that we had last fall, with the police commissioners. We undertook to elect a police commissioner at a general election. A man was nominated by the dominant party for his supposed strength, I believe, with a certain class of people. There was a general uprising against that, it is true. But, sir, that man ran some 3)000 votes ahead of his ticket. And whly? Because every rascal and every rapscallion in the county of Cook, knew that he was their friend. Sir, there rests with the prosecuting attorney the prosecution of indictments, recommendations for mercy and for pardons, and all these things, and if wve put him into the general scrimmage of a gem I i s r I a c t 6 1112 - CONSTI'i"'UTIONAL CON'VENTION THURSDAY, ADJOURNMENT. Mr. CU-11,IIINGS. Mr. President: I move the Convention do now adjourn. The motion was agreed to. So tlle Convention (at twelve O'clock and forty minutes) adjourned. AFTERNOON SESSION. TiiiTRSDAY, Marcli 10, 1870. The Convention met at two o'clock, P. m., and was called to order by the President. JUDICIAL DEPARTMENT. The PRESIDENT. The Convention will be declared resolved into Committee of the Whole, to resume the special or. der, unless objection'is ma(ke. MARCO 10, 18w. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1113 The CHAIRMAN. Will the gentle man from Logan [Mr. Parks] suspend until the Chair can state the question? Section thirteen being under consider ation, the gentleman from Logan [Mr. Parks] moved to strike out ninety thou sand. The gentleman from Pike [Mr. Archer] thereupon moved to fill the blank with one hundred thousand. That is the question now. The gentleman from Logan [Mr. Parks] can proceed. Mr. PARKS. Mr. Chairman: If that is the proposition, it only makes the case that much worse. I believe, sir, the Legislature should be allowed to use its discretion hereafter in the formation of judicial circuits, just as it has done heretofore. I think the put ting of a specific number into the pro vision will do no good, and in some cases positive harm-much harm. Now, I agree with the gentleman from Perry [Mr.Wall], that in discussing principles it is not best to say much about effects and consequen ces, and if there was a principle involved here, I would not say anything about what its effect might be. But inasmuch as this is merely a question of policy and expediency, I think it is proper to con sider what will be its effect. I cannot see how retaining the number will make the Constitution any stronger, while, on the contrary, I think it will be a source of weakness to the Consti tution. My friend from St. Clair [Mr. Under wood] said something the other day in de bate about thisj udiciary article being what he called a "sweetener." Such a section as this, sir, will have any other effect than that of a "sweetener." It will sour the people against the new Constitution, and they will prefer the old to the new system. Look at the provision with regard to Cook county. It is in one article provided that, for every additional fifty thousand population in Cook county, the General Assembly may provide an additional judge. I am perfectly willing, sir, that Chicago shall have what she needs. I do not mean to say one word against her claims. Her people are just as good as any other people, but I am not aware that they are any better. Upon what ground do they require that provision? The people in the country must have ninety thousand by this report, while Chicago, for every fifty thousand, may have another judge. What will be the effect of such a provision through the the country? Anything but good. I am perfectly willing that they should have a judge, as they propose, for every fifty thousand inhabitants, but are they willing that other portions of the State should have judges enough to do the business of the people, whether they have ninety thousand people in their circuits or not? My friend from Vermilion [Mr. Tincher] suggested, the other day, that the reason the people of Chicago needed more judges than we in the country, was substantially this: that there were more wicked people there, and they needed more courts to try their criminals. I do not know whether that is so or not. I suppose the gentleman.said it by way of a joke. I have no evidence that this is so. We have had a number of Chicago gentlemen here all winter, and some others with us occasionally, but I do not see any evidence that they are any worse than other people, and Ifdo not see that they need any more judges than other places. Mr. TINCHER. I did not mean that the peop l e of Chicago were worse than othe r p eo ple. Bwut the y may ha ve a higher sense of propriety, and take up a class of persons that we in the rural dis tricts let go without prosecution; and they therefore, if that be true, require more judges. [Laughter.] Mr. PARKS. Mr. Chairman: I admit, that the Chicago people are very courte ous and gentlemanly, and have a high sense of propriety; but I do not see that that gives them a right to a judge for every 50,000 people, when other counties only get a judge for every 90,000. I am willing for them to have all the judges they need-one for every 50,000, if the Chicago delegation say so, and this Judi ciary Committee, after consideration, think they ought to concede that to them. I am not arguing against that; but show ng that, admitting that, they ought not, no body ought, to compel other people to have in their districts 40,000 more to en title them a judge than the people of Chicago. Mr. WHEATON. Mr. Chairman: I would ask the'gentleman if his amend ment was not to the effect to strike out the words in line three " containing not less than 90,000 each," leaving no limit? Mr. PARKS. Mr. Chairman: It is to strike out of line third, of section thir teen, the words " containing not less than 90,000 population each." When we were considering the courts of common pleas, it was urged very strongly as a reason for permitting the creation of such courts, by the Legisla ture, that the Legislature came fresh from the people, knew their wants and wishes, and could arrange the courts better than this Convention. I have no objection to that argument. I voted for that system of courts of common pleas-not because I thought very much of it myself, but I thought the Legislature could be safely trusted. The fact is, that the court in which the people love best to do business, is the circuit court. They are accustomed to it, and have been for a half century. It is the favorite court with the bar and the people. They go there to do all important business naturally, ampl always will go there unless driven out of that court by the f~act that the districts are made so large that they cannot do their business in it. Mr. CARY. Mr. Chairman: If the circuit courts cannot do the business for ninety thousand people, I am in favor of making the judicial circuits smaller. All that I said yesterday against the extended jurisdiction of thre coufity courts, was an argument in favor of the more extended jurisdiction of the circuit courts. As the gentleman from SLogan [Mr. Parks] well remarks, the circuit court is the favorite court of the people in this State. The people have more confidence in the circuit court than ill any other courts that are likely to be established in their place. The people have a feeling of security with regfard to a just and legal decision of causes tried in these courts, that it will take a long time for them to acquire with regard to new courts of inferior jurisdiction. This probably arises in part from one long continued system of circuit courts, which, having all!~ecome So the Convention, as in Committee of the Whole (Mr. Hayes in the chair), re sum ed t he consid eration of t he report of t h e Committee upon t he Judiciary De partment. The CHAIRMAN. The question is up on s ectio n tw enty-nine, unless a motion is made to take up one of the sections that have been passed. JUDICIAL CIRCUITS. Mr. TURNER. Mr. Chairman: I be lieve section thirteen was passed over until we should consider the county court article. We hav e passe d that, and I now move we take up section thirteen. The motion was agreed to. The Clerk read section thirteen, as fol lows: SEC. 13. The State (exclusive of the county of Cook) shall, before the expiration of the terms of office ofthe present judges of the cir cuit court, be divided into judicial circuits, containing not less than ninetv thousand pop ulation each; and for each of which one judge shall be elected by the electors thereof. The judicial divisions and judicial circuits shall be formed of contiguous counties, in as nearly compact form as the population neces sary for the same will permit, and when formed shall not be changed until after the next census of the State or the United States. The creation, alteration or change of any ju dicial division or judicial circuit shall not affect the tenure of office of any judge. And the substitute therefor, offered by Mr. Hanna, as follows: The State (exclusive of Cook county) shall, before the present circuit judges go out of office, be divided into judicial circuits, and for each of which one judge shall be elected by the electors thereof. The judicial circuits shall be formed of contiguous counties, and, as nearly as practicable, in compact form. But no circuit shall be formed, and when once formed shall not be diminished, unless the records of such court show that in the year preceding such change, at least one hundred and eighty-two days of court was held in such circuit. Mr. WHEATON. Mr. Chairman: My recollection is, that there was a motion made to strike out in the third line the words, "containing not less than ninety thousand population, each," and that that is the question now before the committee. Mr. PARKS. Mr. Chairman: A few days ago, when I made that motion, it was argued considerably, but all the argument that I now remember in favor of retaining the ninety thousand in this section, was contained in the one word "economy.'+ Now, sir, I do not know any reason why the Legislature is not just as competent, so far as economy is concerned, to determine how many and howv few people shall be in a judicial district as this Committee of the Whole. My opinlion is that the next Legislature will be obliged to be economical. I think, sir, the increase of taxation, the scarcity of money, the hard times, and pressure of public opinion, will compel them to be so, and I should not wonder if it should be the most economical body that has assembled in this State for many years. I do not want to say anything particularly against anything that has been done by this Convention, but I do not think that in some respects the Convention has been more economical than the Legislature. I am perfectly willing to trust the Legis. lature, so far as econ'omy is concerned. I do not want to repeat any argument I made the other day, in favor of striking out these words ninety thousand. I only wish to say generally, that to retain them} will operate in the district in which I live very unfavorably... 279 31aRCr 10, 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1113 r C e- now pending, which makes one case for y at least every five thousand inhabitants. a Now then, sir, if there is a part of the Le State that has a case in court for every t, fifty thousand inhabitants, and another e part of the State that only has a case for i- every hundred thousand inhabitants, why, a certainly, in those places where there is ss a case for every fifty thousand inhabits n ants, they require a larger number of t judges than an equal population where h there is only one case for one hundred d thousand; and I think, sir, that it is not oe just-that it is wholly unnecessary and o wholly uncalled for-to say that a judge shall be placed in a judicial circuit of 1- equal population, unless there is likely to be something near an equal amount of business. we Now, sir, if seven judges are too much e for Cook county, I am certainly opposed n to that number; but if the business of that county requires seven, I am certainly o in favor of their having them; and, sir, I believe that it is better to give them a those additional judges than to eke out I with this miserable system of extended n jurisdiction of county courts, because I M, believe we will be getting an abler court y and a court that the people will have n more confidence in, where we make them similar to our circuit courts, than we a would with the proposed county court o system. a, If the gentleman from Logan [Mr. t Parks], or any gentleman from any other 3, judicial circuit in the State, lives in a dise trict where the business cannot be done, y then I am in favor of making a smaller - circuit; but let them have circuit courts t to do their business, and do not try to e force precisely the same population into a every circuit, because there is a difference t in the population of this State, with re. gard to the number of judges required e and the amount of business to be transr acted. If we can do our business with a - population of ninety thousand, and some t other circuit with a population of fifty s thousand, has enough to employ an equal , amount of talent and capacity, and do an i equal amount of business, certainly then r that place should have a smaller circuit s than we need. Our circuit, as I consider, r is just about the right size. We do our 1 business promptly, and I believe satisfac e torily, at least so satisfactorily that no s man, for the last twenty years, has at - tempted to run against our judge, and it t would be useless for any man to attempt s it; but if we were crowded and our business wt was four or five years behind, I freely c confess I should be in favor of dividing g our district and making two circuits if - necessary. Mr. PARKS. Mr. Chairman: The gen - tleman did not seem to understand my . argument. I have not a word to say I against Cook county people having their r circuits as they want to. They can have a circuits, as far as I am concerned, just 1 as they please. My argument was that w other people ought to have the same right j and the same liberty, and that the Legis T lature ought not to be tied up so that it 7 could not make circuits to accommodate r all the people of the State. I have no t objection to the people of Cook county u having a judge for every fifty thousand L inhabitants; none in the world. Mr. WASHBURN. Mr. Chairman: I believe it is a matter of some complaint ' that there are already too many circuit C judges in the State of Illinois, that isthat = CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION 1114 THUP.SDAY, acquainted with, we have learned to r spect, and feel a confidence in, that an new and inferior courts will require long time to gain; and partly from th fact that, as a general rule, able, hones upright judges are elected to presid over them, without regard to their polit cal character. But, s;.r, in my opinion, suitable judge can transact the busines for a population of ninety thousand i nearly all the circuits of the State. I must be, sir, I think, that there is a muc larger business in certain districts an counties of the State than others, or els the judge cannot transact the business s well in some counties as in others. Mr. PARKS. Will the gentleman a low me to interrupt him a moment? Mr. CARY. Yes, sir. Mr. PARKS. I merely wish to ask th gentleman, Mr. Chairman, if he heard th speech of the gentleman from McLea [Mr. Benjamin] this morning? Mr. CARY. Well, sir, I do not kno ,that I did. Mr. PARKS. I do not wish to take moment of the gentleman's time, but only wish to say that the gentleman fro McLean [Alr. BeDjamin], in his speec confirmed all that I said the other da about the crowded state of business i our circuit. 'Ur. CARY. I am not saying a wor but it is so; but the point I am trying t ,arrive at is this: We have a population Sir, in our circuit of, I think, just abou 90,000. The counties of Jo Daviess Stephenson, and Winnebago constitut the fourteenth judicial circuit. In m county, and I presume in the other coun ties, there is never any complaint tha justice cannot be obtained in reasonabl time. I have never heard any either fro WinnebaLyo or Stephenson, and do no know tht there is. Now, sir, if we were to reduce this, w should only reduce the time that ou judge would be employed. He is em ployed, as I said the other day, abou thirty-two, or perhaps thirty-five week in the year-i:)ossibly a few weeks more s(,'me years-but I think that figure woul about cover the case in almost any yea with. in the past seven or eight years. A near as I can estimate, sir, there is on ou docket, including circuit, chancery an criminal business, about one case for on there are more than the public necessity demand, and that some of them should be dispersed with, on the score of economy; and I believe it has been the intention of the Judi6iary Committee to arrange the judicial system so that a portion of the circuit judges could be dispensed with. If we strike out the' words "ninety thousand," and insert some smaller -number, or if this State be distracted on the basis of 'ninety thousand, with a basis of fifty thousand for Cook county,, it will still give as many circuit judges as we now have. Now, if we are to decrease the number of circuit judges, shall we commence bv putting that minimum of rates more tha7n ninety thousand? lapprehend not. I have understood all the time from meiubers of this Convention, that this Convention intended to give county courts more extended j -Irisdiction, in order to lessen the labor of the circuit courts. If gentlemen are not well satisfied, they can extend the jurisdiction already given to countycourts. If thejurisdictionalready conferred upon county courtswill not afford sufficient relief to overburdened circuits, it will be very easy for this Con,vention to give them still more jurisdiction. It was on this account, I suppose, that this Committee of the Whole bas refused to adopt the system of common pleas courts. It is objected, too, that this ninety thousand ought to be stricken out of the section, because Cook county is entitled, under the provision, to a judge for every fifty thousand, and that there ought to be no such discrimination. Now, I believe that every reflecting man will see at once that there is a reason for such discrimination. A rural population, who make few contracts, do not often go to law, while such a city as Chi. cago, composed of commercial men, making unnumbered contracts, necessarily have a great deal of litigation; and there is also always about such a community a body of men who require greater restraint by force of law, and are more frequently in the courts. Fifty thousand of the populati,,)n of Chicago will be likely to engender much more litigation than one hundred thousand people in my section of the State, where there are no large cities. Then, I apprehend, Mr. Chair DEBATES AmND PROCEEDINGS. and that the Legislature has always re sponded, giving affirmative relief. In one of the oldest circuits in the State (the third), n which the honorable chairman of this Committee of the Whole [Mr. Hayes], was at one time a practicing lawyer, we have but three counties. There was not too much labor there, before the late change. The Legislature thought it necessary to make a circuit of only three counties, in order to get rid of an able judge and find a place for another man. Go down to the circuit in which I reside. The Legistature in 1866, in order to provide for a gentleman who thought it was not profitable for him any longer to practice law, created a circuit com posed of four small counties, with not twenty weeks' work in the year. The public necessity did not demand it, no sound discretion was exercised, but it was simply a device to provide a place for a man who preferred, in a financial point of view, the salary of a judge to a position at the bar. These are only two instances, among others that may be named, where the Legislature acted in disregard of the public interests in this matter of circuits. It has been doing so repeatedly. Now, what harm is there in putting the minimum at ninety thousand or one hundred thousand? I cannot think the opinion well considered, when expressed to the effect that any man, competent to be a circuit judge, cannot in the rural districts perform the duties of a circuit containing one hundred and twenty-five or one hundred and fifty thousand inhabitants. I believe a circuit of one hundred and fifty thousand in the rural districts would not be too large, when the circuit court is relieved of those petty misdemeanors and appeals which take up time, so unnecessarily, without involving any principle, which could be satisfactorily disposed of by inferior courts. But why leave the matter with the Legislature? I do not see what improvement in our judiciary system is made by that course. Mr. Chairman, this jad ciary article is the one in which the people are most interested. It is the one which, in its operation, passes most constantly under their notice. And it is the one, sir, which specially demands reform. The people expect it. What improvement ]s made then, I repeat sir, if we leave it to the Legislature to make large or small circuits at their pleasure? By the systeml here proposed in the judiciary article under consideration, the circuit court will be greatly relieved. There will be no grand juries solemnly investigating with closed doors, the question whether a man has sold whiskey by the gallon without having fir t procured a license, or neglected his duty as a road supervisor. Butif you mnake no change —leave it to the Legislature, what reform do we make? We do not meet public expectation. We will have failed to meet it on a ~,ubject of importance. Sir, there can be no doubt that circuit judges canl perform the duties of a circuit of 90,000. Large circuits and respectable pay is the principle. Then, the services of men of talent are secured. The avenues to high position and honor w 11 be opened, and all this petty spite indulged in heretofore by the Legislature against particular lawyers, avoided. Men will fill the office of judge who will be a credit to the State and themselves. I shou~e re of the city of Chicago being a great city, and its commercial relations to the world, that there should be a circuit for every fifty thousand. I have nothing to say for or against that proposition at present. It is claimed on the other hand that in the country the circuit should consist of not less than 90,000. What is the reason for this difference? Simply because Chicago is a large com mercial city, where commerce is carried on and men live by trade-and the country is otherwise-as it is claimed. Now, I ask, Mr. Chairman, is it not true that in the "country," as it is called, that there are large towns and cities that are more or less engaged in commerce and trade, and therefore, by parity of reason, require more courts than the sparsely settled portions of the State? The reasoning adduced here is the reason why we cannot justly fix any definite number for a judicial circuit. The reason that Chicago is entitled to more judges, as gentlemen claim, according to its population, than in the country, is the reason why, to my mind, there should not be a definite number for every, locality in the State, except Chicago. ,For instance, in the southern part of the i State, it is claimed that there is much less 1 litigation than in the northern portion of the State; and if they have all the judges 4 that they require-that is all they ask; 4 and if it is true that in some portions of, the northern part of the State 90,000 is 1 too large and furnishes more business E than well can be performed by a single judge, I have no doubt but what the gen-, tlemen from the southern part -of the t State are willing to give us all the judges that we need. c And again, is it not true that these t circuits will be made up by counties? i And if it should be true that two counties may have seventy-five or eighty thousand t inhabitants, but the next county adjoin- s ing it may have some forty thousand in. L habitants, the two large counties which compose the circuit, not amounting to r ninety thousand inhabitants, you have L got to attach another county, and will t then have one hundred and thirty thou- t sand inhabitants, thus making the circuit as much too large as it was before too c small-and much more so. Now, to illus- a trate: I would say, if my recollection s serves me correctly, that the district com- a posing the sixth judicial circuit —in which c I reside —is composed, probably, of about I eighty thousand inhabitants. That cir- l: cult could not well be enlarged with the i amount olf business that is being done i: there at present. We had irn our own c county —if I anm correct —and I thinkE I am —in the last year, twenty weeksc of court; and if we allow to the ad- a joining county of Rock Island, which has about the same number of inhabi- c itants with Henry county, the same numnber of weeks, we have a judge emplosed [ upon the bench for forty weeks- and no s judge ought to be required to sit on the t bench more than forty weeks. That is indeed too long a timne. A judge ought t not to be required to sit on a bench over c half of his time. It is tiresome work. f Wre do not desire to overwork our judges. a We do not pay them such a price asv should require them to render service on c the bench every day. It seems to me that we ought not to lay down any arbitrary rule upon this sub- t jeer, and let the Legislature arrange %rd I modify the judicial circuits as the busi ness of the locality requires. Where there is but little business, let them make large circuits composed of several counties, say one hundred and twenty-five thousand inhabitants; where there is a good deal of litigation, let the circuits be smaller. There are, I believe, in this State, aside from the city of Chicago, places where ninety thousand is too large a number to compose one judicial circuit. Judicial business does not depend upon the number of population entirely, but the location, business, and other considerations should enter into the determination of the size of judicial districts. Mr. HART. Mr. Chairman: I am in favor of the motion to strike out "ninety thousand." The county from which I come has a population of about seventy thousand, I suppose. Now, sir, the in dividuals comprising that judicial circuit, embracing LaSalle county, number somewhere about one hundred thousand or one hundred and twenty-five thousand. We have a county court with a jurisdiction in all civil cases equaling that of the circuit court; yet we cannot get through with our civil and criminal business. It is impossible to do it within a reasonable time. We are peculiarly situated, as well as Chicago. We have four cities in the county-Ottawa, LaSalle, Peru and Mendota. These four cities supply plenty of business for any one court. They are situated upon a canal and several railroads. Now, it is my opinion that the seventy thousand people of LaSalle county are sufficient in number, and the territory large enough, to compose one judicial district, in order to have the facility for transacting business which is necessary i n our county. Therefore, I am in favor of the motion to strike out "ninety thousand," and insert a lower number, or leave the whole matter of districting to the Legislature. Mr. ALLEN, of Alexander. Mr. Chairc,an: If the purpose of striking out is to make a smaller minimum, I hope the motion will not prevail. Under this section the number may be increased, but it can not be less than 90,000 for a judicial circuit. It seems to me from the arguments advanced this afternoon (and the discussion may have had a wide range in my absence), that we are to go back and put our trust in the Legislature entirely, to regulate this question of circuits. I had hoped that there was a feeling approaching to unanimity in this body upon the importance of so reorganizing our circuit court system, as that we might secure cood talent through furnishing a decent compensation, by enlarging the territory as that there might be something like uniformity of holding in large districts of country. a Sir, in view of the experience we have had with the Legislature, it is with some surprise that I hear gentlemen favoring the idea of leaving this question entirely with that department, as to what population shall be embraced in a judicial cirei rt. Do we not know as a matter of fact, at least, all of us who have paid any attention to the subject, that heretofore when it has been desirable to create a circuit for some individual who may not have been able to practice law successPully, or for some reason best known to himself, application has been made to the Legislature to create a circuit for him, I M.&RoH 10, 1870. 1115 1116 ()1OSTITUTIOAL ()OYETIO THURSDAY, the relief we are providing for the circuit courts, through the increased jurisdiction of the county courts, upon which we have already partially passed. If we adhere to the system of county courts as I trust we will, we will relieve the circuit courts of one-half of their present business, and leave them one half of their time now occupied in trying appeal cases from justices of the peace and the minor class of appeal cases; we will leave them all that half of their time now consumed in disposing of these cases to devote to other and more important business of their circuits, and increase their capacity so that they will be able to take just twice the population that they are capable ,of transacting business for now. Now, sir, take the Jo Daviess circuit. By the census of 1865 it had a population of over eighty-one thousand. It must be over one hundred thousand now. The circuit composed of tfie counties of Adams and Hancock, had by that census a population, in round numbers, of eighty-five thousand. That circuit must have now a population not less than one hundred and twenty-five thousand. The circuit including the counties of Pike and Fulton, and the intermediate counties, had a population of one hundred and twenty-one thousand and over, but cannot have today less than one hundred and fifty thousand. Now, sir, outside of Cook county, the proportion of judicial business to a given amount of population will vary very little. The variation will be scarcely appreciable. Take it outside of the city of Chicago, and, with a given amount of population, there will be a very close approximation of the amount of judicial business; and if there be more business in some circuits, in proportion to the population, than in others, that increased amount might reasonably be expected to be found in the Jo Daviess and Adams circuits. They are so situated as to raise a reasonable presumption that if there is a greater proportion of business to population in one part of the State than another, it would be found in these circuits. Well, sir, what is the report from these circuits? The gentleman from JoDaviess [Mr. Cary] says his judge is not overworked. Our judge informs me that without the relief afforded him by the county court, leaving the circuit courts with all the business that now incumbers them, he could take twenty or thirty thousand more population, and do the work easilv. So the judge in the circuit including Pike and Fulton, with at least one hundred and fifty thousand, now says he is not over worked. And now, sir, with the relief that we propose to give by the county courts, my judgment is that we ought to fix a minimum for circuits of at least one hundred and fifty thousand; and if there is a man upon the bench who cannot do the judicial business for that amount of population after one-half of the present work is taken from him, he is not fitted for the bench and ought to resign and let the people elect some man who can do it, because there are plenty of lawyers in this State, whose physical energies, whose mental qualities, whose attainments will enable them to meet all the judicial demands of one,hundred and fifty thousand population, without at all over working m their energies. [Here the hammer fell]. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION THURSDAY. 1116 gret exceedingly to leave this to the Legislature-to be compelled to take a step backward; and I should take it as an admission that we have been unable to make any substantial improvement in the judiciary article, and wholly unable to meet public expectation. I can see no harm in the minimum number proposed. [Here the hammer fell.] Mr. BROWNING. Mr. Chairman: This is unquestionably a subject of importance enough to attract the attention of the committee for a little while in discussion. There were two objects the committee desired to accomplish by the introduction of this provision in the section now under consideration. One was to reduce, if possible, the number of circuit judges, by preventing the needless establishment of circuits, by putting a limitation upon the power of the Legislature, to establish circuits; for past experience has made it absolutely certain that, if there be no restraint on the General Assembly, there will be more circuits created than the public necessities require. They will be created solely to provide places for friends. It has been so heretofore, and it will be so hereafter. Therefore, it was thought that there should be some limita. tion upon their power. Another object which we had in view was to secure equality in the distribution of business among the judges, or a nearer approach to equality than has heretofore been attained. In some circuits, as we are informed by those who represent them, judges are only occupied eight or ten, or twelve weeks per annum, whilst in others there is complaint that their judges, working unceasingly, are unable to keep up with the business, and dispose of the cases on the'docket as fast as they accumulate. The needless creation of circuits, and their inequalities, are existing and great evils. Are we to apply any remedy, or to take any measures to produce reform; or are we to adjourn and leave things in the attitude in which we found them —exposed to a repetition of identically the same abuses that created a necessity for our coming here? If we do so, we will not meet the expectations of those we are representing. I will not here enter upon the discussion of the judiciary system which may be required for the city of Chicago. It will be time enough, when we come to that, to discuss it. It is sufficient, if we confine ourselves now to the State, outside of Crook county; for it is unquestionably true, that some deviation from the rules applicable to the rest of the State must be made, when we come to arrange for the wants and necessities of Chicago. Outside of (Cook county, I assume, in even numbers, that there will be about two millions five hundred thousand population in Illinois, exhibited by the next census. Now, I shall vote to strike out 90,000: but I shall do it with a view of inserting a very much larger minimum. Sulppose we give one judge for every 100,000 people outside of Cook county, and our population is 2,500,000. That gives us twenty-five circuit judges for the rest of the State and seven for (Cook county, making in the aggregate thirty-two for the State, on the basis of one hundred thousand to a judge. Is one hundred thousand too much?9 In my own opinion it is just about two-thirds less than enough, with Mr. McCOY. Mr. Chairman: A day or two since I had something to say upon the subject of the circuits, and I am sorry to have to repeat a portion of it again, or to at least speak in the same groove. I have been met for the last two months with this argument of fixing upon the judiciary business by the area of land and population, and I am fatigued with hearing it. Now, so far as the circuit of the gentleman front Adams [Mr. Browning] is concerned, I know nothing; but so far as the measurement is concerned, from the statement of the gentleman from Jo Daviess [Mr. Cary], it should not have a minute's consideration, and my reason for saying this is, that in 1860, the gentleman's portion of the circuit was populated to the extent of twenty-seven thousand. In 1865 it had decreased about one thousand. From what source or for what reason that depopulation took place the gentleman best knows; whether it was ['from commissioned officers, or whether it was from appointments, or from what other source, I have nothing to say, but I know the figures foot up j ust to what I say. So I am not surprised, after the main men of the county have left it, and there are nothing but fossil remains left in the county, to see a limited business in that direction. He says they have but two hundred and forty cases, about one case to every one hundred population. They have 26,000 inhabitants there, and therefore they have about 260 cases per annum, criminal, chancery and common law. If I were an attorney in that county, I would move out, bid good bye, and say amen forever. I do not think it is a good argument to set up the county of Jo Daviess a~s ana example. It is no standard for anything, as I take -it. [Laughter.] The gentleman from Adams [Mr. Browning] says he contrasted his county by that of Jo Daviess circuit. It is not a circuit by way of name, but it has become, so far as this Convention is concerned, the circuit of Jo Daviess. Jo Daviess is the sum total of the whole thing. The gentleman's district is going in the same direction, and, I take it, is also on the retrograde order. That is my idea. Now, I will not pretend to say anything against the county of my friend from Stephenson [Mr. Turner]. I know his county is one in which there is a vast amount of business. It is not fossilized. There is a live element there. When I go there i see men, living men; but when I go to the county of JoDaviess I see no men in the streets — nothing but a few children reunning around. When we go to the county of Winnebago, we find a commercial place, where there is a great deal of business done. They have a great deal of water power in active operation, and I venture to say, if we can get the representative of that county up -from his seat, he will say the business of that county cannot be transacted and perfected by the judicial service now afforded, and will contradict, in substance, and, ina fact, every word relating to the sufficiency of the juldicial service, uttered by the gentleman from JoDaviess [Mr. Cary], except as to the service in JoDaviess county. lqow, sir, they had a little more than eighty. one thousand inhabitants in 1860. I do not know, but they may have that number now, but if they have, they must carry it to the credit of Winnebago countyr, and that of Stephenson, and not that of JoDaytess. Q MARCH 10 1870. DBATES AXD PROCEEDJGS. lilT about thirty candidates here in this Con vention for judgeships. Mr. CARY. Thirty-five. Mr. WHEATON. Eighty five. Mr. TINCHER. And, if I were to make any legitimate deduction from the speech of the gentleman from Whiteside [Mr. McCoy], he is one of the thirty-five. I am of the opinion that he would make a good judge-in asmalldistrict. [Laugh ter.] I know his magnanimity and kind ness of heart, and how he was led out of his way to abuse this poor dilapidated district of the gentleman from Jo Daviess [M'r.'Cary], is -,)ore than I can conceive of. Now, the gentleman from Lake [Mr. ,Haines] perfectly annihilated that por tion of the State in the early part of the session, and I considered it ungentleminan ly-not ungentlemanly, but ungenerous and unkind in him to be going out of his way to drag up the dead carcass again, and reveal it to this Convention. I sim ply want to administer a gentle reproof to my friend from Whiteside [Mr. McCoy] on this subject, and I hope that neither he nor any other member will refer to it again. I am decidedly in favor of mak i,,)g this maximum number not less than 125,000, and I would Javor 150,000. Mr. WHEATON. Say 500,000. Mr. TINCHER. Mr. Chairman: As the probability is, the gentleman from Kane [Mr. Wheaton] will not be one of the judges, I do not know but it might be increased to 500,000. But if he was go in g to be a judge, I would decrease the number. He is a very small piece of hu manity, and is extremely modest; but his modesty would fade away before the Mr. MEDILL. The vox populL. Mr. TINCHER. Yes-before the vox populi. [Laughter]. I put that in at the suggestion of the gentleman from Cook [Mr. Medill]. [Laughter]. Now. the time was when the rural dis tricts required more judges for the same number of inhabitants. It was at a time when there were a great many law suits growing out of the wild hog question; but in those rural districts there is no more mast-fed pork; and the result is, litigation has measurably ceased. [Laugh ter]. They are a quiet, honest and in dustrious people, and do not require a judge for every forty thousand, as they do in those cities where there are people who propose to live off of each other, by just peeling each other every time they pass upon the street. Mr. MEDILL. Is our turn come next I Mr. TINCHER. I shall say nothing of Chicago except in a kindly manner I knowing the division of sentiment among the gentlemen of that place, and wishi ng to help them out, if possible. I know that in the district that I represent, in part, that we have not perhaps at this time, over 100,000 inhabitants, while we have a very good judge who could attend to another 100,000 with agreat deal of ease, and not employ all his time then. Perhaps we do not have as much law there as in other places —I wish we had a great deal less than we have. I would like to inquire if there was a motion to strike out ninety thousand and make it one hundred and fifty thousand?: The CHAIRMAN. There- is no such motion; there is a motion to insert one hundred thousand. It will be competent to amend by inserting a higher number. Mr. TINCHER. Mr. Chairman: As to Chicago, where they are all commer Now, sir, let me tallY a little about our circuit. We have a little circuit in which we had eighty six thousand population in 1865, in that circuit. I find that we have at each term of the court in our own county, an amount of business which brings upon the docket five hundred cases. There are three terms per anuum, which will sum tip to abo,ut fifteen hun dred cases. But while we are less in population than JoDaviess by one or two thousand, we have vastly more judicial business there than there is in that county, and we have a larger proportion of business in the county in proportion to the population, than the gentleman has indicated here. I say, so far as the judi cial service is concerned, in the district in which I am, two counties of the four would give ample business for any one judge-tthat is, the counties of Whiteside and Lee, possessing, as they do, vast wealth -commercial, manufacturing, and agricultural. This, of course, would not apply to JoDaviess. It has no kind of machinery or manufacturing element in it, as I understand it. I do not know but there may be some in the other districts, becaase they are on the great Mississippi river, and if they cannot manufacture, they can avail themselves of the commerce of the great Mississippi river. I do not wish to say much about the gentleman's county; it is a very good county; there are very fine and talented men there. I do not believe they are moving out much or that the population is decreasing much. But,, mark you, I want that where we have a living, business population, that teems with enterprise and wealth, and power, it shall have, commensurate with its business, j adicial service; and I am in favor now of inserting a number, so that the judicial service of these districts may not be made too small; that we may put in fiftythousand, sixty thousand, or seventy thousand, and make some margin, but when we come to measure it by these sepulchres full of dead men's bones, that have nothing in them, I am not for them. I am for the number that will meet the energies, the power, and the business of the people. That is what I am for. But I do not wish it to be understood here that I intend, by my vote or voice, to favor anything which is to dig up the dead. [Laughter.] Mr. T'iNCHER. This is evidently, as has been remarked, a very important section, and I hope it may receive due consideration from this Convention. I am mush pleased with the remarks of my esteemed friend from Adams [Mr. Brownving], and i should judge from his remarks that he was not a camdidate for the judgship of some district now to be formed. I think his remarks are exactly in point. I think that any judge who cannot take care of 150,000 inhabitants, when half of his businsss is taken away from him-and turned over to a county court, ought to resign and leave the bench. While this is trues Mr. C:hairman, I do not propose to abuse any of the judges who are now occupying the bench, for I believe that most of them have perhaps as much business as they want to do. But I amn seriously opposed to cutting this down to a small number of inhabitants. If I understand correctly, (I do not know how true it may be, and shall not say that the gentleman from Whiteside [M~r. 3IcCoy] is one of them,) there are 280 -~~ ~ I i i i i t s MARCE[ 10, 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. iiii cial geDtlemen-I do not mean in the sense in which we talk about it in the Legislature, [laughter,] for when we — peak of them we do not mean in the sense of a man going to sell out at the first )pportunity-I mean where they do a commercial business, there must neces sarily grow up a great deal of litigation. Sir, one hundred thousand people in Chi cago do more business, more law business, than would grow out of five times the Dumber in the rural districts, because Chi cigo is made up of all classes of persons who differ a great deal in their Opinions. When they have made a trade they begin to study how they can get out of it by leaving a small lawsuit, [laughter,] and if they can'they will go into a lawsuit-but perhaps, not more so than the people of other places. Mr. BUXTON (in his seat.) Does that apply to marriage contracts? [Laugh ter.] Mr. TINCHER. If the gentleman will examine the record up there I think he will find out. If the gentleman is not married, it will not b(i of particular in terest to him. [Lau-hter.] If he is mar ried he may go there and examine the records. I move now to insert 150,000 in place of 90,000. I do not desire, nor do the people, to make districts for any petty lawyer in the country to be elected judge. We do not need more than about eighteen judicial circuits in the State after reduciDg the business of the circuit courts, and I think that is what the people will be in favor of, reducing the expense as it will. Mr. BA-YNE. Mr. Chairman: I hope the amendment of the gentleman from Vermilion will not be adopted. I have been thinking the matter over. I do not know of any lawyer in my district that could thereby get on the bench. I believe there is none there expecting to go to CODgress, as Sangamon county furnishes us members of congress. [Laughter]. i do not see how we can be benefited. I have no doubt but it would fix a place for the gentleman from Coles[ Nlr Bromwell], to sit upon the bench, and open the way to the gentleman from Vermilion to -o to co-Dgress. But, he will not probabl want it. [Laughter]. I am pleased with the speech of the gentleman from Whiteside [lvlr. McCoy]. I have learned since COMiDg into the Convention that he is a 1118 C()XSTITUTIOXAL COYETIOX THURSDAY, he is elected by the democrats, when he would probably be taken from Lake. [Renewed laughter]. But I am for VViWhiteside [laughter]; they have at least one such able lawyer, and he requires such a small circuit for the transaction of their judicial business. Then, again, my venerable friend pitches right into a man without warning, and when he has given no cause. If the gentleman feels any gratification, let him pitch in again; and I can say to him that when he wants anything, I will vote for it, any snug office, especially, and a small circuit to accommodate his dimensions. [Laughter]. Mr. ROSS. Mr. Chairman: I am inclined to think it wise and prudent to put some limit in the Constitution as to districting by the population of districts. Still I do not think that population is a very accurate criterion of the amount of litigation. We all judge somewhat from our own localities as to what judges are able to do. In our judicial circuit, I think, we have at least one hundred and fifty thouam nd population. I do not think the duties devolving on the judge occupy his time more than eighteen or twenty weeks in the year. Indeed, I understand fromn him, during last year, that he had no ob jection to taking three or four more counties, if deemed necessary, in his circuit. It was said that this county court would reduce the business of the circuit court. It will be unfortunate if we adopt the county court system, and still keep up as many judicial circuits as before. I think it would be better to reduce the circuits to fifteen or eighteen. I have no doubt the judge in our circuit could take two hundred thousand population and transact the business, without taking up more than half his time. It may be dif ferent in other circuits. I notice that the gentleman from Whiteside [Mr. McCoy] takes a great deal of litigation as an evidence of extraoi-dinary prosperity. I do not so regard it. IL our part of the country we consid er it a bad sign when the people have to go to law-we believe that business is not prosperous when men are being sued be cause they cannot pay their debts. Our court usually sits about three or four weeks in a year, and the time is ample to transact the business. I do not know what the number should be in a district but I think with these county courts it should be at least one hundred and twenty-five thousand. tI think a great deal of difficulty grows out of the character of the judges. Good judges will do the business easily. If these counties mentioned by the gentle man from Whiteside [Mr. McCoy] have not good judges they had better change them and get those who can transact the business. We can furnish him from our circuit, fifteen or twenty men for judges who can get through their dockets, and they can be exported for the benefit of districts to which the gentleman alludes. I do not know why it takes so much longer to do the legal business in the northern than in the central and southern part of the State, unless down here ia the centre and the southern part we are more law-abiding people, and do not re sort to the courts so much-pay our debts without litigation. It appears to me that there must be something in this. Why it is that it requires in circuits like that referred to by the gentleman from be more farmers included, who will be subject to the requirements of the courts, and the annoyance will be increased. As to the salaries of judges, of which we hear so much, we fariners hkd better throw in something towards that expense than to be compelled to attend courts in the busy season. As it is now, forty or fifty of us have to attend each time, and when a few days are lost that way, right il sowing time or harvest, I think it wou.d be far better to pay the judges ourselves, than to be subject to such inconvenience. I am satisfied to leave the matter to the Legislature. We cannot tell now what the people will want hereafter. This is the only attempt I know o f, in any of the States, to fix the thing in this way, and I am in favor of leaving it flexible, subject to the control of the people through their Legislature. Mr. CARY. Mgr. Chairman: I hardly know how to commence-I am so surprised and astonished. It is a very astonishing thing, sir, to hear a clap of thunder in a clear sky, and when the honorable gentleman from Whiteside [Mr. McCoy] got up here and followed in the wake of the gentleman from Lake [Mr. Haines], I was exceedingly surprised. Why, sir, when the gentleman from Lake [Mr. Haines] saw fit to attack Ga lena and Jo Daviess county, I was astonished, because I had not referred to the county of Lake or to its representative, antd I am equally astonished now, and 1 have been trying to find out what the trouble is that Galena should be again attacked. The gentleman has seen fit to refer to a decrease of population and tooffice holders. Well, sir, it is true we have a president and some other officers. Is it a misforture for a place to have men suit able for presidents? So the gentleman seems to regard it. Now, sir, so far as this judiciary article *is concerned, I have been disposed to make am exception of Cook county, be cause there is so much business there. Aud, since the remarks of my honorable m friend from Whiteside [Mr. McCoy], I am disposed to go still further and make provision for Whiteside county. I am willing to divide that county, make the west side of that county (washed, as he says, by that "magnifient stream," of which he has spoken so volubly) a district, and have the gentleman himself preside over it as circuit judge, if the people there want him in that position. And as I am informed that he has sowe e congress ionlal aspirations, I amn in favor of strik ing out Ibr his special benefit, the provis ion prohibiting a judge from holding any other office during his term and for one year after his term expires —and thus he can be judge and member of congress both at once, if he can only get the people to elect him: but upon this I will glve no opinion. In addition to that, if the gentleman has an ambition to be Gov ernor, I would allow him to fill that office too. [Laughter.] As the office-holders of Galena seem to trouble him very much, I have thought thiat as we furnish such good presidents from Illinois, it may be that the country will always hereafter choose the president frotm Illinois. And from mature deliber ation, I doubt not that if our next presi dent is chosen from Illinois, he will be taken from Whiteside [laighter], unless ills CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION THURSDAY, Whiteside rMr. McCoy], a judge for two counties, when we can take six or eight with ouejudge in our part of the State, I cannot understand. There is something remarkable about it. There .ust be a great difference in the people or in the judge himselfI do i3ot know which, it is. But I think that there would be a decided advantage in pUttiDg a restriction upon the Legislature, that'Lhey may not carve out unnecessary judicial circuits for the purpose of accon-imodatidg particular individuals wantidg a place, as has been done in the past. Therefore, I am in favor of a limitation in respect to population. Mr. BRO.IIWELL. Mr. Chairman: It ,seem,- to me that one trouble in this matter is, that an exact number being stated, would necessitate making a district somewhere that niioht run over a few thousands, and, therefore, make it cumbersome aiad inconvenient, while at the same time the Legislature ought to be debarred from making up circuits without regard to the public welfare. And, in thinking of this, it occurs to my mind that it would be well to chainge the character of the limitation from an absolute Minimum i,iumber, to saying that no more circuits shall be created than one for everv ninety thousand inhabitants on the basis (;f the to tal population of the State. That would not compel the Legislature, in all cases, to sutain that principle of ninety thousand, because they might make some circuits below that for convenience; but where it might be convenient, they could be larger, so as to keep within the number of cir cuits allowed to the State. The oject of the Convention is to limit tl-ie number of judges, and not to put cramps on particu lar circuits. The Legislature would have some reason to i-liake differences in cir cuits. Some circuits of one hundred and tweilty-five thoueand inhabitants would not require any more attention from the judge than other circuits of eighty five thousand, and the Legislature could dis pose of the matter, accor li.Dgly; whereas, if we say they shall not make a circuit below ninety thousand, that ends the mat ter, where a very proper circuit could be made on eighty thousand or eighty-five thousand, but could not be enlarged at all without, perhaps, making it one hundred and twenty thousand. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. - few consisted of over two or three. Afl ter adopting that new Constitution with t probate courts, on which they had con- ferred the same jurisdiction in minor - matters, as is proposed in section eighteen, I th e y reduced the number of circuits in that State down to twenty-two or twenty four, and it is a fact that the business in ; these enlarged circuits has not been half f enough in most of them to employ their - judges fully. Although the State has to- day three million inhabitants, with about - twenty five districts, the circut judges are not hard worked any where, except, per haps, in Cincinnati and Cleveland. It is absolutely necessary that some limit be r fixed in the Constitution to the number of circuits that may be made,. under the in- fluence of a go od s alaryt o the j gidge. I support the proposition of the gentle man from Coles, [iMr. Bromwell,] thiat we fix a number, and then make it flexible, I so that the Legislature may make one dis trict a little larger, and another a little T smallerthan the average number. It may happen that four or five counties which number eightv thousand, will make a very t convenient and natural district. It may happen that three contiguous counties may have one hundred thousand, and the people would like to be placed in the 3 same district under a favorite judge. By this amendment of the gentleman from - Coles, that feeling can be accommodated. 1 I am in favor of some limit, and I think it would be a misfortune if the limit were not fixed, for these reasons: First, if the - limit is stricken out, members of the Leg islature will favor new districts in order t to secure a judgeship for themselves with a fat salary. That is one reason. Another motive that I have seen in play elsewhere, is to get rid of some lawyer with a large - practice by bribing him to take a judgship, in order that his practice may be broken up and distributed round amongst the other members of the bar of his courtL ty. That is human nature. Another rea son is, the getting rid of a judge in a par ticular part of the circuit where the members do, or his coterie of lawyers did not * like him. Another reason is, that the judge himself is willing to have his circuit reduced in order to escape labor, and se. cure plenty of leisure. Another motive for the multiplication of distr.cts, is that the expense of the Ladditional judge does not fall on the new' . district, does not perceptibly increase the' ,cost of the district from which the sub.traction of territory is made, since it is ;sa~ddled on the State treasury. Therefore the member justifiess himself befbre his constituents f[or his act, and says. "It does not add anything to our expense, for the State at large has to foot the bill." Hence, the tendency is to a multiplication of districts and officers, unnecessari ly, and this tendency will gain strength under the inducement of a good salary. The county courts, if properly constituted, will draw off so much of the small business that should never go into circuit courts, as will enable the Legislature to reduce the num~ber of circuits very mate rially, thereby giving the people an op portuniity to select a first-class judge, having a larger circuit to choose from. Thus we get a higher grade of judicial talent, and also reduce the expense of the judi-ciary. ;Mr. ROSS. Mr. Chairman: If the gentleman will allow me a question before in order to offer an amndendment changing the principle. Mr. BRO.IWELL. Then I should move to insert, in lieu of "ninety thou sand," that there should be no more circuits than one to each ninety thousand inhabitants, so as to leave the Legislature a little flexibility, and at the same time secure the object we have in view. Mr. SKINNER. Mr. Chairman: The Committee on the Judiciary endeavored very thoroughly to investigate and to fix upon a minimum as to- the judicial circuits, which would be sufficiently low to secure ample facilities to ail sections of the State. Now, my experience at the bar for twenty years, and OD the bench perhaps for ten, has satisfied me of one thing, beyond all doubt or question, and that is this: that the true policy is to pay judges well, and afford ample wolk for them to do to keep them employed. A judge who has little to do, goes at once into some other business; goes to farming, goes to trading, mixes up with business life. His mind is taken off of his profession, off the science of the law, and often when that man is called upon to hold court he has forgotten the rules of practice that exist in his own court, forgotten the commonest statute provisions of the State, forgotten the principles of pleading, and consequently makes a very poor judge. I do not like to speak of myself, but I will be pardoned in so doing. I was elected to the circuit bench about 1850. The circuit extended fully one hundred and fifty miles up and down the Mississippi river; being composed of five counties. I do not think there was any complaint that I did not give the bar and the people time enough to dispose of all the judicial business. I know that I wes not employed over one-third of the time. Now my colleague [Mr. Browning] knows the same thing, if his mind is called to it. It was a great misfortune to me, pecuniarily, for I never could be idle, and I turned to farming, and nearly swamped myself; that is, I lost money, because I did not know anything about it. It was an experiment. Now, if I had been paid well and had been kept employed, I should not have lost that money. I speak merely by way of comparison. I cannot, from the experience I have had, conceive how it is possible, in rural districts} for a judge to be unable to dispose (of the business of ninety thousand people. I cannot imagine that there canbe such a case. The circuit to which I belong ~s composed cot two counties. There is a large commercial city second in the State with a population of thirtyfive thousand. Four terms of the court are held a year for criminal business in one county, and three terms for civil business, and three terms in the adjoining county of Hancock; and it is true the judge is not sufficiently employed. Mty friend from Fulton [Mr. Ross] es:pressed correctly the condition of Judge Higbee's circuit. The business is dis patched without trouble; the public are served; eases are tried, not continued for want of time. I forget the number of counties. Mr. ROSS. Five. Mr. SKiINNER. They cannot contain less than 150,000 people. There is no difficulty there at all. Now, how it is possible that in the rural regions of the north, a judge canlnot dispose of the legal business of a population of ninety thou sand, I cannot coneeive. I cono,-de, and all agree with me on thi s subject, thi f beat there is a difference with regard to commercial cities. There o ught to be considerable difference. Even with the mi x ed population of the Adams circuit, with no hl cah or mu nicip al courts at all; wi th the ci ty of Quiincy and the city of Warsaw with a railroad system permeating both of thes counties e very where; w ith a population that is mixed r ul, rural, trading, manufacturitg, co mmercial, the re is no question but that the fact is as stated. The committe e have e ndeavored to fix up on a mi nimum that will prote ct the pe ople again st the creation of circuits for the benefit of individuals. Now take the county o f SaDgam on. It is a judicial circuit. What is the population? Mr. HAY. It is about fifty thousa nd. Mr. SKINNER. My friend knows there was no o ccasion to make a judicial circuit of Satgatmou co unty; thatajudge the same thing, if his ~mun scaldto tenpoide en hrb n r h ther Iebr oftebro igou must either go to farming, practicing law in the cou rt s, or something else, if h e keeps employed. I hope the minimum will not be put less than ninety thousand; and I am in favor of keeping it at ni nety thousand. Mr. MEDILL. Mr. Chairman: Tle gentleman f ro m Coles [Mr. Bromwell] has offee ere d a very happy atm endment, in m opinion. I was trying to wor k ou t s ome th i ng of the sam e ki nd m yself, but did not quite hit on it until he discovere d it. His aenmendmen t gives a flexibility to the number of populat ion required for a distriet, which, it seems to me, will enable the committee t o settl e this disputed point without much f ur the r con troversy. It is conceded on all si des of the chai ber, that in some portions of the Stat there is a larger li t i gatio n to a given popu lation tha n in other portions. By insert ing the proposed amendment, we h ave then provided a mean s where b y o n e circuit may consist of seventy-five thousand or eighty thousand, and a not he r circuit may contain on e hund red and twenty-f ive thousand or one hundred and fifty thousand, as the Legis l ature shall determine; and the Legislat ure will determine this mat t er corre ctly. T he re will be a large body of me n fi fty sen ators and one hundred and sixty or one hundred and seventy members of the house- and every pornion of the S ta te will be fully represented by sharp-: yed men to look after their interests. Thae controversy that will arise about the apportionment and re adjustment of circuits will fixs the matter just about right in the end. Where members can show that in their districts, they have a great deal of litigation per inhabitant, they will be permi~ted tc form districts requiring less number of inhabitants than in othver portions of the State where there is but little litigation, and where titles are settled. The tendency all over the State, outside of the commercial centers, is to a reduction of litigation. That is the experience in al! the older States. As titles become settled, as all questions growing out of real property are adj udicated, the courts are relieved from a vast amount of litigation incident to new States. I would state that in Ohio, befo~re they got the county court system, (called probate court,) they had, according to my recollection, about thirty-five districts ins eighty counties. Many of the larger counties constituted a single district, and very 31ARCIE[ 10,' 1870. 1119 1120 COSTITUTIOAL CONYENTJO THURSDAY, 1 ion [Mr. Tincher] turned upon me and , made a personal attack, and alluded to a - word I used the other day, which seems to have rankled in the breast of the gen-S tleman ever since an allusion I made to -'"modesty"-and the modesty of gentlet men who had undertaken to speak on this r judiciary question. It seems, sir, the gen-L t tleman from Vermilion [Mr. Tinchcr] either never heard the word before or did not know its meaning [laughter]; fo)r it certainly has rankled in his breast I from the time it was uttered by me; since in two different speeches he has attacked - me for the use of the word. e He says, sir, I am a small specimen of humanity. I admit it; but if a man's t mental abilities depend upon the length f of his legs and backbone [laughter], then - the gentleman from Vermilion is superior to any other on this floor. [Laughter.] s The CHAIRMAN. The Chair would 1 remind the gentleman from Kane [Mr. - Wheaton] that personalities should be - avoided. t Mr. WHEATON. Yes, sir; but I des sire only to reply, Mr. Chairman, to what was said by the gentleman from Vermil- ion [Mr. Tincher]. There is this differ ence between men of the size of the gen atleman from Vermilion [Mr. Tincher] and I small men, that in men like him, the brain is distributed all over the body, but in small men it is all concentrated in the b head. [Laughter.] I desire to say this, not only in my own behalf, but ia behalf of other small men on the floor. The 3 gentleman from Peoria [Mr. Wells] says m the comparison falls upon him, too, un doubtedly! ; Now, having replied to the gentleman, I would close what I have to say on this section, by repeating, that it seems to me good policy requires us to harmonize, ap parently diverse interests, by mak;g the provision of the Constitution, concerning courts, so flexible, that the wants of the State, which are diverse and different, may be met. And I believe, sir, that the best system is that which is given to us in the Constitution of the United States that great exemplar. When the wise men of the past formed that Constitution, they simply provided that the judicial power of the United States should be vested in one supreme court, and such other inferior courts as ! congress might, from time to time, pro vide. And, I believe, that if we would put a similiar provision in our Constitution, leaving the Legislature to provide for courts according to the wants and interests of the different portions of the State, we would get rid of all the special legislation concerning courts, which weighs down this Constitution, and adopt a system, that by its flexibility, with subsequent acts of the Legislature, may produce a body of courts apilicable to the diverse and conflicting' interests of the different portions of the State.s. Mr. UNDERWOOD. Mr. Chairman: I fear that the gentleman who has just taken his seat will vote differently from his logic. HIs logic is this: that one of the greatest objections to the present Constitution is, it has too many sharp edges, that it does not meet the wants of the people, and hence this Convention has been called. While I believe a circuit of two hundred thousand people might suit some parts of the State (and one hundred and t t t 1120 CONSTITUTIONAI, CONVENTION THup.SDAY, he sits down. I wish to ask him to tel us why there is so much more litigation especially of a criminal character, in re publican than in democratic counties? [Laughter.] Mr. MED.' LL. I will answer the gen tlemad, first, by saying that I deny tha such is the fact, and the second answe is unnecessary to give as it might reflec uncomfortably on democratic counties. [Laughter.] [Here the hammer fell Mr. WHE,&TON. Mr. Chairman: am satisfied, from listening to the debat for two or three days past, tl)at the inter ests of the different parts of the Stat are diverse, and that any attempt at spe cial legislation in the Constitution to sui the interest.-, of the diffrent portions 0 the State, cannot successfully be accom plished. The law business of a commer cial and manufacturing community I twice as great as that of an agriculture community, with twice the number of inhabitants. That is the experience, I sub-vait, of every lawyer and every man, no a lawyer, who has watched the busines of courts. A manufacturidg and commercial community, of fifcy thousand inhabitants, has twice as much law business as a purely agricultural community of one hundred thousand inhabitants; so that we cannot measure the wants of a part of the State by the wants of another part of the State with respect to the amount of law business. Therefore, it seems to me, that we ought tLl endeavor to harmonize as much as possible the interests of the various portions of the State, by adO'PtiDg some provision in'the Constitution that will be flexible in itself. In this section, as now reported by the committee, the circuit is ninety thousand. In some portions of the State that is too small; in other portions it is too large. In some portions of the State one judge can do the business for ore hunired and fifty thousand or more inhabitants; in other portions he cannot do the business for ninety thousand inhabitants. 14e could not do the business in Chicaco for more than fifty thousand it seems to me the amendment suggested by the -entleman from Coles [Mr.Bromwell] leaves the matter flexible, so that the Legislature may adjust circuits adapted to the various wants of the eo le. If flfty thousand woull suit the part where I reside), I am equally persuaded that if we insert a restriction, fOUDd in no other State Constitution in the United States, that each circuit must have a certain populatio-D, we will seriously prejudice our COnStitUtiOD, and perhaps not enable the Legislature to divide out the circuits to meet the necessities of the people. The gentleman from Whiteside [Mr. McCoy] says the present judge of his circuit court cannot do the business. The gentleman from LaSalle tells us th same is true in his circuit. I take their statements as made in good faith. They are as much entitled to a judiciary to meet their wants as other parts of the State. I fully accord with the gentleman from Kane [inr. WheatOD] in part of his reasons-that in country districts, where there are farmidg COMMUDitie,-,, there is little contention or'litigation, few in jail, and few criminal cases, a circuit may be very large. I know, when I was on the be,-.ch, I had thirteen or fourteen counties, and the whole State bad but nine circuits. But we have a very different population now. The State is covered with railroads. We have all kinds of corporations-all kinds of persons come here-of all nationalities. It is not only manufactures and trade and commerce that increase litigation. These people from various nations collect in our towns and the more ded.sely popu. lated sections, and from their old Dational feuds and hostility, litigation will arise. These nations have been taught in Europe to hate each other from time i'mmemorial, their prejudices are not entirely buried till years after they come here, and hence they produce maiy law suits -much more than where the people are all from the same country or from the same part of the Union. Our judicial system must be adapted to their wants. The criminal system must be enforced, contrac's must be enforced and remedies aff)rded for all wrongs. The people, as has been remarked, feel a deeper interest in these tribunals than they do in the making of laws. The enforcement of laws comes right home to them. Men must attend courts. They feel keenly the point of an execution auainst their property,, or process aoaitist their perSODS. We ought to afford an am le su I of courts to mee 0 MAROH 1Q 1870. DEBATES AD PROOEEDJGS. 1121 pensation of succeeding legislatures and ty thousand at a time, without drowning of the judiciary. out some, or leaving others to perish from The people, sir, who are very jealous of want. high salaries, will be inclined to question It strikes me if we have anything to candidates before they are elected to the fear in this judiciary article, it is special Legislature about this matter of compen legislation. Some parts of this report sation. It is not likely that in creating seem to be adapted to the wants of one the new circuits they will be reckless with locality, while other parts seem adapted regard to pecuniary matters, and make to the wants of a totally different and dis more than are necessary and proper to meet tinct locality. the wants of the people. I fully concur If we extend a favor to one locality, or with the idea that most circuits need not one section, is it not probable that that be smaller than one hundred and fifty fact will offend every other locality in the thousand, perhaps two hundred thousand; State, and that the attempt to bribe votes but there may be other circuits-different- for our Constitution in this way will cost ly situated, and we must not make our us three votes where we gain one? system with so much iron in it, that the It will require very few people in each Legislature will be compelled, as hereto- section to defeat the best instrument that fore, to trample the Constitution under can be originated. It seems that if we foot in order to meet the wants of the hold out a titbit and bon bon to this local people in the judiciary department of the ity, that every other locality will be jeal government. ous, and that every attempt to pacify Then sir, my idia is, that we had bet- localities, by special favors, involves us in ter strike out the ninety thousand, and endless confusion, creates endless jealleave the matter as it is left in the Consti- ousies, and will surely defeat any Constitution of the United States; leave it as tution we may attempt to form on such it is left in the Constitution of every State principles. in the Union-to the representatives (f Sir, a court is not a representative the people, that they may create the cir- body; a court is not designed to represent cuits for the next succeeding six years. population or any part of the people. It It will be seen in a prior section of the is not designed that a court shall reprearticle, which we have already acted upon, sent the wants of the people, or gratify that the divisionsof courts can be changed the wishes or whims of any locality, as a after they are once created. During six legislative body does; but the court is to years then the circuits would probably decide differences, expound the law, and remain as created, but at the next elec- enforce the stern decrees of justice to all tion of judges they could be increased or the people-those who like and those diminished again as the public wants who do not like them. might demand. The people are not represented by If we leave it in this shape, sir, in my number, by head, or by weight, in a judgment we will show mcre statesman- court. The business of a court does not ship, than if we undertake-with the facts originate according to numbers neccessabefore us, with the protest of members of rily, but it originates according to cornthis Convention before us, that this limi- merce, according to business, accordingto tation is too stringent to meet these wants; the wants and passions of a people, and is with the knowledge, also, that there are caused by a thousand things other than many features already in the Constitu- numbers of population. tion that it is very desirable to incorpor- In large cities, commercial centers, th e ate, that might create opposition against business is infinitely greater to the inhabit-to make an inflexible rule. It is itant than it is in the country. Gentlea wholesome fear that the great restraints men have stated that this ninety thousand which we desire to inaugurate if we at- if suffered to remain, would be utterly tempt to press the matter too far, and go destructive to the interests of their section. too much in detail, may be crushed to The gentleman from Logan [Mr. Parks], atoms by the people by a concentrated has made an able argument on that quesopposition; one for one reason, and one tion. I can assent to every word that he for another. I say, therefore, that we said, and state that the limitation of would show more statesmanship in view ninety thousand in the circuit, would of all this, to leave it to the Legislature, strike a blow at the best interests of the than to engender opposition to the Con- circuit that I now represent, from which stitution by making amendments that are it could never recover. In that circuit, not absolutely necessary or proper. the courts are held nine months in the Mr. WELLS. Mr. Chairman: I re- year, almost continually, except during gard the Constitution as the fountain tie hottest summer months, and one of justice, and not as the dispenser of I month in the winter. That circuit does justice. I regard it as the fountain from not contain a population of over sixty which should flow the supply to all peo- thousand. If we add thirty thousand pie in the State, and not as the dispenser more to it by adding a population where to measure out just how much this or litigation arises as freely as it does in that that particular locality needs or shall re- circuit, the business could not be transceive. It is the great fountain from which acted by any court. should flow all the streams of justice, and It seems to me that we should avoid all it seems to me that it should be left to attempts at special limitations. It seems another authority to measure out and say to me that we should, in a judiciary artihow much this or that locality needs and cle, create a fountain of justice large shall have. enough to yield its generous supplies to It seems to me utterly impossible for a the largest State that ever existed, and so Constitution which, if it exist at all, must tempered us to meet the wants of thle exisit for years, to measure out in its in- smallest county. flexible provision sufficient j ustice to nieet It seems to me the fountain should furthe demand of the locality at one time nish supplies ample not only to the counand not overflow it at another. It sees s ty of Cook, and city of Chicago, in just to me imposssble, sir, for a Constitution the gentle measure that it requires, but to dole justice to the inhabitants by nite- should measure its supplies to meet the 281 MARoaH 10, 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1121 needs of the smallest county, or the smallest community, and I cannot con sent by my vote that any number what ever should be inserted in the place of this ninety thousand, that itis proposed to strike out. Mr. PARKS. Mr. Chairman: The speeches of those who have opposed this proposition to strike out "ninety thou sand," as I- understand them, amount to this: "This proposition, as it is, suits us in our localities very well, and we intend to have it. It may or may not suit you in your locality, but we intend to pass it anyhow." Is that the way for statesmen to act, when framing a Constitution for a whole people? Those who are in favor of striking out this ninety thousand do not desire to interfere with any judicial district in this State. They desire to leave this whole thing with the Legislature, so that if the Constitution is adopted, and a Legislature comes up here, three times as numerous as we are, and knowing three times as much about the wishes of the different districts, they may pass upon this question. We do not wish to take away any right from a single district, or from a solitary man in any district of the State. Our opponents say virtually that they have the power to put through this prop osition, and that they are going to do it any how, no matter how it affects large districts in this State and populations of hundreds of thousands of people. I ask again, sir, is that the way to make a Con stitution? I thought we were making a Constitution for the whole State. I thought it was our business to try and conciliate the whole State. I thought the members of this Convention knew the prejudices that were arrayed against them, and how hard it would be to carry this Constitution at the best; and yet, in defiance of this, they tell us virtually that they do not care what we, or our people, feel, or think, or desire, who are in favor of striking out the ninety thousand restriction. It is a new and unheard of restriction, that never existed in this State before. I repeat what I said before in a little speech I made the other day. It is better to have three or four districts larger than necessary, than to have one too small, and make the people dissatisfied, sore, irritated and disposed to vote down the Constitution, because their interests and wishes are disregarded. There is another argument, sir, that these gentlemen use. We are told that there are about thirty-five men in this Convention who are candidates for judges. Nqow. sir, I do not know anything about that. It may be so or may not. All the members of this Convention may be candidates for judges, or some other office, for aught I know, or none may be. I have heard it said before that some men here are candidates for judges, and for the Legislature, and for Congress, and for Governor, and for the United States Senate. What does that amount to in a question like this? Just nothing at all. If gentlemen choose to introduce anything of that sort, as a mere matter of pleasantry, simply to diversify a dry dis~ cussion, that is one thing. But if it is introduced seriously as an argument, I must be permitted to say that that kind of tas.k is generally the argument of mnen who have nothing better to Bay, aned is contemptible. 0 1122 CONSTITUTIONAL CONYNTION THURSDAY, frequently made here to the discrepancy which will appear when this Constitution is sent out, between the number of inhabitants entitling the "rural districts" to have a judge, and the number required for a judge in the city of Chicago. I will say that proposition never came from Chicago at all. No such proposition was ever made; and the petitions which have been sent here from Chicago, are every one against that idea. The original proposition that was presented by those of us who represent Chicago and Cook county, was in these words: The General Assemblvy may increase the number of judges of either of their courts. Now, sir, my opinion is, judging from the argument that has been made upon the floor of this Convention, that in some localities the business is such that seventy thousand inhabitants would be support for a judge; in other localities, one hundred and twenty thousand; in others, one hundred and fifty thousand. Now, what does that prove? It proves that in some localities there is more litigation camong ninety thousand inhabitants than in another locality where there is one hundred and twenty-five thousand to one M hundred and fifty thousand. Now, my judgment is, that the people should'have all the judges they want, and that matter should be left to the General Assembly to adjust. The "law's delays" have been cried out against whenever and wherever a delay has occurred for the last two hundred years. Now, I do not desire to force anything upon the people of this State, contrary to their wishes, and I do not like to have the Constitution present an inconsistency in regard to the number of judges for the same population. The thing is easily sus ceptible of explanation; but why not leave this matter to the Legislature? In the city of Chicago are concentrated some twenty railroads; we have a com merce upon the lakes amounting to many miillions; we have the largest grain and lumber market in the world; we have a very large wholesale trade; we have an a ccumulation of an immense banking and insurance capital; we are made the re ceptacle of a large floating population, and the scoundrels from all parts of the world sometimes honor us with their presence. I tell this committee that instead of one judge being sufficient for every fifty thousand people, we need a judge for a much less population. In other words, we waut judges enough to do our business, and I say that the amount of business is not dependent upon the population. Men may call Chicago the "wickedest" city upon the continent. Let us admit it for the sake of the argument, and what does it prove? It proves e- th that the laws must be enforced against the law-breaking portion of the community, as well as for the law-abiding, and that every one ofthese things creates litigation. Litigation, I repeat, depends first upon the complications of business, and, sec ondly, the character of the people. A homogenous people are more easily con trolled than a mixed population. It does not depend upon numbers merely. This matter can be controlled by the Legislature, and it seems to me that if we put any other plan in the organic law, we may make a mistake. We are to have in the future a larger Legislature-that Legislature will be confined to the transaction of the public business, and my judgment, Mr. Chairman, is that we shall have an entirely different condition of things hereafter from what w e hav e had in the past. If it is deem ed indis pe nsable t o cor rect the abuses of organizing small circuits, for the purpose of providing a place for incompetent men to act as judges, and that abuse cannot be corrected in any other way, then let this be adopted. If not, then let the proposition be modified in some way, so that we may harmonize on some proposition that will be agree. able to all concerned. Mr. MEDILL. Mr. Chairman: I would like to ask the gentleman a question. When the judges of circuits are hereafter paid a good compensation, will there not be a strong disposition to create little circuits all over the State, for the sake of fat offices, and to make places for members themselves, or their law partners? The people are not consulted in these jobs at all. A "little ring" fixes it up to suit themselves. Mr. ANTHONY. Mr. Chairman: I do not fear. I have some confidence in the judgment of the people. Mr. MEDILL. But the people have nothing to do with this question. [Here the hammer fell]. Mr. SEDGWICK. Mr. Chairman: I find the report of the committee so faulty that I have prepared a substitute, which, it seems to me, will answer the purpose much better. The CHAIRMAN. The substitute is not in order. Mr. SEDGWICK. Mr. Chairman: I suppose I can read it for information. I thought a substitute would be in or der while the committee are perfecting the original. The CHAIRMAN. There is already a substitute pending. Mr. SEDGWICK. Mr. Chairman: I should like to hear the substitute read. The Clerk read the substitute offered by Mr. Hanna, as follows: The State (exclusive of Cook county), shall, before the present circuit judges go out of office, be divided into judicial circuits, and for each of which one judge shall be elected by the electors thereof. The judicial circuits shall be formed of contiguous counties} and as nearly as practicable, in compact form; but no circuit shall be formed, and when once formed, shall not be diminished, unless the records of such courts show that in the year last preceding such change, at least one hundred and eighty-two days of court was held in such circuit. The CHAIRMAN. The substitute was offered by the gentleman from Wayne [Mr. Hanna], but the committee is now engaged in perfecting the section. The question is now upon striking out "90,000,' and filling the blank with some other number. For this purpose 100,000and 125,000 have been namued. The gentleman fromn Logan [MVr. Parks] moved since to strike out the words connected with the number. That motion will come up in its order. The question is upon striking out and inserting. A division has been ordered, and the question therefore, nowr is upon striking out. Mr. SEDGSWICK. Mr. Chairman. In the first place, I am opposed to the section as reported ninety thousand for each district. I think the argument adz CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION 1122 THURSDAY, Now, sir, I repeat my protest against the adoption of this ninety thousand restriction. I repeat that it is new and unheard of in this State. I repeat that it will have a bad effect upon this Constitution-with the people; and I repeat, that so far as the people of my district are concerned, it is to them a substantial denial of justice. What good purpose will be effected by forcing it upon those of us who are opposed to it? What good purpose will be effected by imposing it on the people of tbe districts who are opposed to it? None, sir; none at all. What good will it do those gentlemen who live in districts that are too large? Can they not, if they choose, with three times as many men in the Legislature as are in this Convention, adjust their districts to suit themselves? Are not the people and the bar in those districts that they say are too large, able to come up to the Legislature and have their districts fixed to suit them, to suit the wants, and wishes, and interests of their people? They have the power; they have the right to do this thing if they choose to do it. We do not propose to take from them one solitary power or right they ought to have. They propose to take from us virtually the right to go into the circuit courts, the favorite court of the people, and do the business that we want to do there. On such a question as that, will this Convention hesitate what to do? When it comes to Cook county, what are they going to do? I say we ought to do what the Cook county delegation say they need to have done, unless it is very unreasonable. But how will it sound in the "rural districts," as they are called, when those of us who are in districts to which justice is substantially denied, go before the people to defend this Constitution and say, "You are not good enough to have your circuit court districts made so that your business can be done. It is reserved for Chicago, with her wealth, number and influence, to get the judiciary of her city and her county exactly as she pleases." If the gentlemen wish to incur the odium in the discussion of these questions, of such an argument as that, they are welcome to it. I do not wish to do it. I mean to wash my hands of it. It may be they will be able to force that thing upon those who are opposed to it here, and they may be able to force it upon the people of those districts who are opposed to it. I do not know how that will be, but I hardly think they can. Mr. ANTHONY. Mr. Chairman: I have taken no part in the discussion thus far of this judiciary article;* neither do I intend to take up the time of the commhittee now, by engaging in an argument after it has progressed to the length it has lin this Committee of the Whole. I desire to say, however, in my judgment, this provision involves a wrong principle —to wit, that judges shall be apportioned among the people according to popullation. I do not believe, as has been stated, that a court is or ever was a representative body. It is designed to transact legal business, and does not depend on the population at all. It depends on the bus- iness, and the business of a community depends on various things which can be explained. I have said ~othing before on this matter;X bult allusions have been.o AOH 10, 180. DEBATES AD PROOEE1)IGSb 1123 place of the ninety thousand in the sec tion. One hundred thousand is the num b er proposed by the gentleman from Pike [Mr. Archer.] The gentleman from Ver milion [Mr. Tincher] proposes one hun dred and twenty-five thousand. Mr. HAINES, of Cook. Mr. Chair man: I propose one hundred and fifty thousand. Mr. GOODHUE. Mr. Chairman: I desire to suggest a number, and before I do so, I desire to explain why I suggest it. The gentleman from Fulton [Mr. Ross] thinks that in his circuit of one hundred and fifty thousand, courts are running about twenty weeks in the year. Now, upon the basis of every judge hold ing court ten months in the year (and every judge ought to be compelled to hold court as long as that), a judge could accommodate a population of three hun dred thousand. Now, I am perfectly satisfied, as a mat ter of course, that what the gentleman stated is true as to the business of his court; and,- being satisfied that what oth ers have stated from other sections is true, that population is a fair criterion of judicial business, and it being necessary to have some restriction that amounts to something, let us have three hundred thousand instead of ninety thousand or one hundred and twenty-five thousand, or any other figure. And while I am on the floor The CHAIRMAN. Does the gentleman propose three hundred thousand? Mr. GOODHUE. Yes, sir. I desire to refer to the question that the gentleman from Fulton [Mr. Ross] asked, and in the spirit in which it was askedwhich was jocose-I desire to answer him; and I desire to answer the question, because it bears somewhat upon this number that I have suggested. He asked the question why it is that there is so much more criminal business in republican districts? I desire to state, Mr. Chairman, that in our section there is no special partiality for criminals, and the majority of the people are compelled sometimes to prosecute democrats. And in addition to that, if he will guarantee to us that there can be a change of venue in all cases where democrats are being prosecuted for crimes in republican circuits, I shall have an additional reason e inducing me to go for three hundred thousand. The CHAIRMAN. The question is upon the motion to strike out. ["Question," "question"]. A division was ordered. The committee divided, when, there being thirty-nine in the affirmative and twelve in the negative, the motion of Mr. Parks, to strike out "ninety thousand,"was agreed to. T The CHAIRMAN. The question is upon filling the blank. Mr. GOODHUE. Mr. Chairman: I will withdraw the three hundred thousand. I am afraid some of these gentlemen will vote upon it. The CHAIRMAN. The question is upon filling thQ blank with one hundred and fifty thousand, as proposed by the gentleman from Cook [Mr. Haines]. Mr. HAINES, of Cook. MYr. Chairman: The discussion here this afternoon has satisfied me that the number placed in the article, as reported by the Committee on the Judiciary, was altogether too small. It has been shown that we have judicial vanced against it is unanswerable. There ma y be s om e d istricts in t he State where perhaps fifty thousand would be enough for a district, and on the other hand te y e tos here may be portions where one hun dred and fifty thousand would not be too many for a district. In the next place, another objection is that the stand ing committee, as usual, have fixed this matter with such an iron rule that there is no flexibility to it whatever. In the seventh line they provide that no change shall be made until the next census of the State or of the United States. If this plan should be found entirely inade quate to the wants of the people, the Leg islature could afford no remedy until after the next census. It is unreasonable, I submit, to fix this in the Constitution so that it cannot be changed, no matter what necessity may arise. Another objection I have to the section is the last clause, which should be stricken out, to make it conform to sec tion twelve, which was adopted after amending, by adding in regard to judges "shall hold their office until otherwise provided for by law.,, To conform to that we should strike out of section thirteen the last clause, as follows: "The creation, alteration or change of any judicial division or judicial circuit, shall not affect the tenure of office of any judge." Wlth these three objections, I have shown the section, as gentlemen will see, very faulty; therefore, I had prepared a substitute, as the Chair has not announced to-day that there was a substitute pending, although I recollect now, that the other day there was a substitute offered. I think mine preferable to that. It is a compromise between those in favor of ninety or one hundred and twenty-five thousand on the one hand, and gentlemen who, on the other hand, desire to have no limitation whatever, in regard to population. There is considerable flexibility about it, and if gentlemen insist upon placing something of the sort in the Constitution, it should have as much flexibility as we can with safety give it. I will read it for information. The General Assembly shall re-district the judicial circuits of this State (exclusive of Cook county) before the expiration of the terms of office of the present judges of the circuit courts, forming not less than twenty nor more than twenty-five districts. Here, it will be seen, that if there be 2,000,000 inhabitants outside of Cook county at the next census, twenty districts would give 100,000 people to each district, on an average. The Legislature would be restricted to ITom twenty to twentyfive districts. And in each districtJ one judge shall be elected by the electors thereof. Tlhe judicial divisions and judicial circuits shall be formed of contiguous counties, in as nearly compact form as the population necessary for the same will permit, and, when formed, shall each contain at least seventy-five thousand inhabitants. That is the lowest number; but of course some may be 150.000. I will proceed: And shall not be reducced in size unless the judge therein is required to hold court more than eight months in each year for at least two successive years. That embraces what is proposed in that substitute, and also the other suggestions by both parties. ["Question!" a"Question!"}] The CHAIRMAN. N~ow is the time to propose other numbers to take ~e DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. MARCH 10, 1870. 1123 districts that have one hundred and fifty thousand population, and yet their judges are not busy one third of the time. Now we propose in this article to so establish the practice of the courts in our State as to give to the county courts exclusive ap pellate jurisdiction from justices of the peace. I apprehend then, that through out the State, the business of the circuit court will be reduced almost one half, from that alone. It will be so, I am satisfied, in the por tions of the State that are the most densely populated —those portions containing large towns and cities. Now, if giving to these courts exclusive appellate jurisdiction, (which I objected to, and still do object to, but was voted down), is to restrict the business of our circuit courts largely, as I believe it will, I think that even one hundred and fifty thousand is too small a number; but as one hundred and fifty thousand was largely in advance of ninety thousand, that was why I proposed no larger number. As I have said here before, and-I de sire to say again, for one, I stand here with the honest desire in my heart, that we should make as few places for office holders and tax-eaters in this Constitu tion as possible; and, for one, I am in favor of giving that amount of elasticity to the Constitution which we propose to make, that will give the Legislature some little authority in the matter, so, that as we travel along down the stream of time, they may provide for exigencies that may arise, and satisfy the wants of the people, especially in regard to the judiciary sys tem; for I understand that one of the wants of the people who sent us here, was that we might make some amendments to the judicial system of the State. I wish to give notice now, that when we get through with this article and it comes into the Convention, I shall propose the article on the judiciary as it stands in our present Constitution, with the exception of the salaries of the judges. I believe we have courts enough in the present Constitution, and the only thing we need in that direction, is simply a change in salaries. The CHAIRMAN. The question is upon the motion to fill the blank with one hundred and fifty thousand. The motion was not agreed to. The CHAIRMAN. The question is upon the motion to fill the blank with one hundred and forty thousand. The motion was not agreed to. The CHAIRMAN. The question is upon the motion to fill the blank with one hundred and twenty-five thousand. The motion was not agreed to. Mr. HART. Mgr. Chairman; Whill an amendment be now in order? The CHAIRMAN. An amendment is not now in order. The question is upon filling the blank with one hundred thousand. The Chair would say that all members must vote: otherwise there win! be no quorum voting. A division was ordered. The committee divided, when there were twenty-fve in the affirmative,e and twenty-eight in the negative. The CHAIRMAN. Gentlemen will vote upon one side or the other, or there will not be a quorum voting. The CHAIRMAN (having taken the negative). There are twenty eight in the negative, and the amendment is, declared not agreed to. 1124 ()OSTITUTIOAL OONYENTI() THURSDAY, pealed to for another vote or expression of the committee; and we understood the Chair accorded the privilege of another vote on the proposition for filling the number with 100,000; and though there has been a vote on that proposition, I would ask the Chair to allow another vote to be taken on it. Mr. BROMWELL. In regard to the question of order by the gentleman from Alexander [Mr. Allen], he took no appeal from the ruling of the Chair, and I understand the Chair has already announced its readiness to entertain another amend.ment. Mr. ALLEN, of Alexander. In reply, I have to state that the chairman said there would be another vote taken, and there was no necessity for appealing, as the gentleman from Coles [Mr. Bromwell] ought to know. The CHAIRMAN. The Chair will state the condition of the question to the Convention. When the vote in the affirmative had been taken, the Chair appealed to the members of the committee to vote. Thereupon, the vote was concluded; the decision was announced. Before any other motion had been put, it was claimed by members of the committee that the statement from the Chair may have given an advantage to the negative; and they desired the vote to be taken over again. The Chair presumed there could be no objection to that, and assented to it. Unless there be a motion to the contrary, the vote will be taken over again. The question being on the motion of Mr. Archer, to fill the blank with "one hundred thousand," a division was ordered. tihe committee divided, when, there being thirty-two in the affirmative and twenty-eight in the negative, the motion was agreed to. The CHAIRMAN. The question now is upon the motion to strike out the words in the third line, as follows: "Containing not less than ninety thousand population,"' and upon the motion of the gentleman from Coles [Mr. Bromwell] to insert what he proposes. The Clerk read the amendment offered by Mr. Bromwell, as follows: Strike out the words "containing not less than ninety thousand inhabitants," and insert "not more than one for every one hundred and twenty-five thousand inhabitants of this State." Mr. BROMWELL. Mr. Chairman: When I was on the floor, I proposed that amendment, and made some few remarks upon it. I supposed it was generally heard, but since-h Mr. CUMMINGS. Mr. Chairman: I rise to a point of order. If I understand the action of the committee right, the proposition was to strike out "ninety thousand." That was carried, and by a vote of the committee "one hundred thousand" was inserted. If I understand, the amendment of the gentleman from Coles [Mr. Bromwellj moves to strike out "cne hundred thousand," and insert another number. The CHAIRMAN. The Chair will correct the gentleman. The motion was to strike out certain words in which the number, "ninety thousand," was included. Then, upon the motion of the gentleman from Pike [Mr. Archer], to strike out "ninety thousand," and insert "one hundred thousand," the motion was first taken upon perfecting the words proposed to be 1124 CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION THURSDAY, Mr. CUMMINGS. Mr. Chairman: It seems that, in the vote just taken, the Chairman, after the affirmative vote was taken, ordered all present to vote; and, in all probability, some voted in the negative that would not have done so had the order been given before the affirmative vote was taken. I ask that the vote be taken over. The CHAIRMAN. The vote will be taken over again if the gentleman desires. Mr. WELLS. I believe I have the floor. I desire to move that all further voting upon the number be dispensed with, and that the space be left blank. Mr. BROMWELL. Mr. Chairman: Is an amendment in order? The CHAIRMAN. That depends upon the nature of the amendment; an amendment to fill the blank is in order. Mr. BROMWELL. It is an amendmenat to strike out and insert. The CHAIRMAN. An amendment to strike out part of the words comprised in the proposition of the gentleman from Logan [Mr. Parks], or otherwise to amend these words, would be in order. The gentleman from Logan [Mr. Parks] moves to strike out the words "not less than ninety thousand." It is in order, before that motion is put, for a further amendment to be made to these words. Mr. BROMWELL. I will read the amendment: To strike out the words "containing not less than 90,000," and insert "not more than one circuit for each 125,000 of the State." The CHAIRMAN. That will be in order in connection with the motion of the gentleman from Logan [Mr. Parks] which is to strike out identically the same words. It is the same as though the gentleman from Coles [Mr. Bromwell] or the gentleman from Logan [Mr. Parks] had moved to strike out and insert, and a division had been called for. Mr. WELLS. Mr. Chairman: I rise to a question of order. I desire to call the attention of the Chair to what I conceive to be a misapprehension of the facts as they exist before the committee We have already stricken out 90,000. The next proposition is to vote to insert different numbers. The vote being taken upon the largest first, while the business before the committee is to fill the blank, nothing is in order except a vote to insert first the largest, then the next largest number —unless it be a motion to leave the section blank. I submit that that would be a proper amendment, and that no other should be entertained while the committee is voting upon the insertion of the different nulmbers. The CHAIRMAN. The Chair decides that the point of order of the gentleman from Peoria [Mr. Wells] is not well taken — that the motion to leave the section blank is not necessary, because the vote of the committee is equivalent to leaving it blank. If the committee choose to insert another number before the next vote,'it is in their power. If they do not insert ano~ther number, the blank is left. Mr. ALLEN, of Alexander. I rise to a question of order. It is the opinion of quite a number of gentlemen who voted on the last proposition in the committee, that there was not a correct announcement of the result, or that there was an error in the count. The F~air was ap. stricken out by the gentleman from Logan [Mr. Parks]. The committee have stricken out "nine. ty thousand," and inserted "one hundred thousand." The question now is upon striking out these words, as perfected by the committee. The gentleman from Coles [Mr. Bromwell] is in order, Mr. BROMWELL. Mr. Chairman: I would not have added anything to what was said before, but after I yielded the floor, I spoke to nine different gentlemen about the amendment, and not one of them knew what it was, which greatly discouraged me in making speeches by way of explanation before the committee. [Laughter.] My object is not to limit the number of inhabitants in the circuit, as it seems to me that would greatly embarrass and incommode the business of the State, but it is to prevent the Legislature doing what they have done heretofore, making new circuits for the accommodation of friends of the Legislature. Therefore, I proposed an amendment which will accomplish that end, and at the same time allow an arraugement for the increasing population of the State. It was not that the number of inhabitants in a circuit shall be so many, but that the number of circuits in the State shall be so many, and that this number may increase as the number of population increases. Therefore, I moved to strike out the words "containing not less than ninety thousand population each;" because that is a limitation upon the number of people to a circuit, and to insert the words "not more than one circuit to each one hundred and twenty-five thousand inhabitants of the State." The consequence would be this: when the Legislature goes to re-district the State, they will ascertain thepopulation. They will divide it by the number one hundred and twenty-five thousand, if not that number, whatever number the committee chooses' to insert, and there is the number of circuits. Now, one gentleman says there are eighty-five thousand people in his circuit, and the court lasts about ten weeks; while some gentlemen from the northern part of the State, whose circuit contains less than ninety thousand inhabitants, say their courts are held all the year round. This, whether an evidence of their thrift or whatever else-I make no insinuation. The Legislature'having the number of circuits limited by this Constitution, can rearrange theseicircuits among the different portions of the State. But sir, I am not willing to leave this hall with a power in the hands of the Legislature to go to work, as they have done heretofore, and parcel this State out into little judicial districts for the accommodation of "Tom, Dick and Harry," with a regular salary attached to the position, and indeed, sir, it will be worse hereafter than it h ~s been, for this reason: Heretofore, the docket fee has constituted a part of the judge's pay, and of course the more counties he had in his circuit under this system the better, but if he is pro. vided with a stated salary, that will be an inducement, other sources of compensation being cut off, to get rid of as many counties as possible, so that he may be relieved of a portion of the responsibility and labor. And whereas, as we have now some thirty circuits, I shall expect to see fifty circuits created in eight years, if we do not set some bar to tt/e action of the MARR 10, 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1125 Mr. ALLEN, of Alexander. I would like to ask the honorable chairman of t he Judiciary Committee, what there is in t he proposition of the delegate from Coles [Mr. Bromwell], to prevent the Legisla ture from running into the very abuses which they have heretofore indulged in -creating one circuit of five thousand and another of two hundred and fifty thousand inhabitants? mlIr. BRO31MWELL. Mr. Chairman: If the gentl -man from Adams [Mr. Skinner] will allow me, I will say a few words on that. When the Legislature meets there will be a different state of things from that existing heretofore, when there has been nobody to be hurt by making a small cir cuit out of other circuits, as the number of circuits was unlimited and the judges were not disturbed, but relieved some what by it. Under my amendment they can only make a given number of circuits, and when an attempt is made to change a county, the representative will prevent it. i Mr. ALLEN, of Alexander. Then the whole argument is, that subsequent Leg islatures will be purer than former ones? Mr. BROMWELL. No; but they will have a different interest and different power. Mr. SKINNER. Mr. Chairman: I will say, in answer to the gentleman from Alexander [Mr. Allen], the amendment precludes the General Assembly, when dividing the State into judicial circuits, from making more circuits than can be made with less than one hundred thou sand inhabitants in each circuit, upon the basis of the population of the State. I admit that, as to the future creation of circuits, it does not operate as a probibi tioa upon the Legislature. By another provision of the article, judicial circuits are not to be changed except by the Gen eral Assembly next preceding the general election of circuit judges-which is every six years. This I have regarded practically as a sufficient limitation in the future, after the first districting of the State. Mr. ALLEN, of Alexander. I suppose the honorable gentleman refers to the fourteenth section. Mr. SKINNER. I do not remember the section. Mr. ALLEN, of Alexander. Does not that have reference to the change of time of holding courts 9 cMr. SKINNER. That is not it. Mr. ALLEN, of Alexander. That is the fourteenth section. Mr. SKINNER. That is not the section. eMr. ALLEN, of Alexander. Mr. Chairman: With the permission of the honorable gentleman, I will send up the thirteenth and fourteenth sections to be read. I think the honorable chairman of the standing committee [Mr. Skinner] is laboring under a mistake. The Clerk read sections thirteen and fourteen, as follows: SEC. 13. The State (exclusive of the county of Cook) shall, before the expiration of the terms of office of the present judges of thea circuit courts, be divided into judicial circuits, containing not less than ninety thousand population each; and for each of which one judge shall be elected by the electors thereof. rThe judicial divisions and judicial circuits shall be formed of contiguous counties, in as ne.rly compact fo rm an t he p opu lation necessary Ior the same will permit; and when formed shall not be changed until after the next census of the State or the United States. The creation, alteration or change in any ju dicial division or judicial circuit shall not affect the tenure of office of any judge. SEC. 14. The General Assembly shall pro vide for the times of holding court in each county; which times shall not be changed, except by the General Assembly next pre c e ding the general election for judges of said courts, but additional terms may be pro. vided for in any county. The election for judges of the circuit courts shall be held on the first Monday in June, 1873, and every six years thereafter. Mr. SKINNER. Will another circuit be created, without changing these judi cirl circuits as formed by the previous General Assembly? Where are the new circuits to come from? Mr. ALLEN, of Alexander. How could that affect the right to form them at the start? Mr. SKINNER. The amendment of fered? Mr. ALLEN, of Alexander. Yes, sir. Mr. SKINNER. As I understand the amendment proposed by the gentleman from Coles [Mr. Bromwell], it requires the General Assembly to district the State into judicial circuits, upon the principle of one circuit for one hundred and twenty-five thousand people-not to exceed one hundred and twenty-five thou sand people. One circuit may have more population, and another circuit may have less. In the rural districts where there is less judicial business Mr. ALLEN, of Alexander. Will the honorable gentleman allow me to inter rupt him once more? I wish to ask him a question for the purpose of getting his opinion. Did I understand him to give it as his opinion that this amendment limits the formation of circuits to a number not more than one hundred and twenty-five thousand population? Mr. SKINNER. Mr. Chairman: I would answer that my understanding of the amendment is this, that instead of fixing a minimum number as to the crea tion of any judicial circuit, as ninety thousand or one hundred thousand, it goes upon this principle, that there shall ba no more judicial circuits in the State than will equal a circuit for one hundred thousand people, taking the whole pop ulation of the State into considera tion. Mr. ALLEN, of Alexan,der. There might be two hundred thousand in one, and five thousand in another. Mr. SKINNER. Yes, sir. The flexibility is the point that seems to have great virtue. It accommodates the north, where is said to be more litigation according to population. It effects this, that. while we place a limitation upon the number of judicial circuits, to be created in the State, we may have in one section~ of the State a population of one hundred and fifty thousand to a circuit, while in another, we have only fifty thousand, accorfding to the amount of litigation. Mr*. WALL. Mr. Chairman: I voted for fixingg the minimum at one hundred thousand. My experience in the southern part of'the State satisfied me that that portion of the State might very safely be appor tioned upon a much larger -basis than that. From the testimony of gentlemen in other portions of the State, I am led to believe that, perhaps, that niumber would be too large in many cases. N~ow, the proposition of the gentleman from Coles [Mr. Bromwell] seems to me to ~be Legislature in this respect; and I am op posed to the very idea of setting a mini mum number of population to a circuit. The gentleman from Peoria [Mr. Wells], and some others, have spoken against a minimum n um ber, and in that I agree wit h them. But the amendment I offer has o ii no minimum nu mber of population at all. It simply has a minimum number of circuits; and if we do not have a mini mum number, either with regard to pop ulation or to the number of circuits, we do not bind the Legislature. If we have a minimum at all, it should be one of cir cuits, but not any "iron rule," like that designed by the gentleman from DeKalb [Mr. Sedgwick], who wants toconfine the number of circuits between twenty and twenty-five. By this amendment, whatever the pop ulation of the State may be, this mini mum number of circuits establishes a ratio which can be applied from time to time, to the varying circuits, as popula tion increases. Therefore, I think this has all the advantages proposed by the gentleman from DeKalb [Mr. Sedgwick]. If the minimum of circuits only be fixed, the rule is flexible; but by the amendment he proposes, it is not so. By my amend ment the Legislature would be prevented from carving up the State into little cir cuits, and imposing burdens upon the people, at a time when we have already taken off many of the responsibilities of the circuit court by means of the pro: posed county courts, and, also, perhaps, by means of the intermediate appellate courts. This amendment makes no minimum at all of population, and secures the State from the system opposed by the'gentleman from Logan [Mr. Parks], whatever might be the variation in the population of the circuit. Now, I have a word to say about that. The number of judges that it would give the State would be ample. In my circuit there are one hundred and twen ty thousand inhabitants, andputting into operation these county courts con templated, our judge, I am sure, would not be occupied more than one-third of his time' Hle is only occupied two-thirds of his time now; and we propose to relieve him of half of his business. Then we could take more than one hundred and twenty-five thousand. So with the gentleman from Logan [Mr. Parks]. He will find that with the county courts in operation, the work of his court will not be too mulch; on the contrary, the number may be greatly increased. So in LaSalle county, which the gentleman [Mr. Htart] says is sufficient for a circuit by itself. Stark, further, we have provided for for cit. coverts in cities of over three thousand inhabitants. That would give LaSalle c~ounty four city cour'ts, and with the county court it will have five; and on that the circuit court will come in shorn of four fifths of its business. Then there con be nothing to apprehend in La~alle county. For these reasons I would not recommend a lowyer number than one hundred and twenty-five thousand, bult rather increase it. Mr. SKINNER. M~r. Chairman: I rise simply to say that, if I had the power, I should accept the amendment of the gentleman from Coles [Mr. Bromwcll]. 1 believe a large number of the members of the Judiciary Committee wvould do the 282 I 1ffARCE 10, 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1125 1126 CONSTITUTIONAL COYETiO THURSDAY, who will insist that he must have a circuit with only fifty thousand inhabitants. He will urge that there will be as much busi ness in his section, in a circuit of fifty thousand, as can be done by one judge. We shall find the gentleman from JoDaviess [Mr. Cary], who will insist that his circuit must consist of one hundred thousand. So it will be all over the State, and the difficulty which will arise from this system is precisely this: that there will be no rule or system by which these circuits can be regulated. It will lead to all sorts of log-rolling and maneuvering and forming of rings in the General Assembly, in order to make the circuits suit individual interests and schemes. I should rather fix the minimnum at fifty thousand or seventy-five thousand, or one hundred thousand, or one hundred and fifty thousand, or at any number, than to adopt this amendment and leave it thus open, as this amendment seems to. Mr. RICE. Mr. Chairman: I wish to make an inquiry before making any remarks upon this subject. I understood the Chair to say that the blank had not been filled with one hundred thousand. Did I understand aright? The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman misunderstood the Chair. The gentleman from Stephenson, [Mr. Turner] assumed that the committee had adopted ninety thousand as a basis. The Chair informed the gentleman that the section had not been adopted, but amended by striking out ninety thousand and inserting one hundred thousand. Mr. RICE. I misunderstood the Chair. I understand that the committee have filled the blank with one hundred thousand, and the proposition now is the sub stitute of the gentleman from Coles [Mr. Bromwell] to insert in P)lace of that clause in which "one hundred thousand" occurs, so that the circuits shall be formed upon a basis of an average of one hundred and twenty-five thousand to a circuit, not limiting by minimum or otherwise the number that any particular circuit shall contain. Mr. SKINNER. Will the gentleman allow me to suggest that, as the amendment now stands, it is one hundred thous and. Mr. RICE. Mr. Chairman: I under stand that the gentleman from Perry [Mr. Wall] offered as asubstitute "one hundred thousand," instead of one hundred and twenty-five thousand, which was accepted. I think that as between the two propositions, the number inserted as the minimum number for a circuit, by the committee, is decidedly preferable to the substitute now before the committee. It is true that it limits the number of circuits, and, in that respect, would answer the same purposes as the minimum num ber of one hundred thousand to a circuit - -at least, nearly so. But it opens the door to another evil, which the mini mum of one hundred thousand closes. While it checks the creation of circuits, as to numbers, it does not preserve equali ty as to the distribution of labor in the several circuits, and among the several judges. As the gentleman from Alexan der [Mr. Allen] remarks, it is within the power of the Legislature, if the substi tute is adopted, to create a circuit of one hundred and sixty thousand, and a cir cuit of forty thousand out of a popula tion of two hundred thousand and it will not do to argue that such results as CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION THULTRSDAY~ 1126 based upon the correct principle, but the result of it would be as I view it, to fix the circuits at about one hundred and twenty-five thousand each, because there would be comparatively few circuits where they would be willing to take more than one hundred and twenty-five thousand; and if there are many circuits where they cannot afford to have that number, there will be great injustice accomplished. In view of these facts, I desire to make an amendment, to insert one hundred thousand in place of one hundred and twentyfive thousand. Mr. BROMWELL. I accept the amendment. Mr. TURNER. Mr. Chairman. I am inclined to think that the subject has not been maturely considered. I do not know that I quite understand what is meant by the amendment proposed by the gentleman from Coles [Mr. Bromwell]. In the remarks I am about to make. I shall speak of it as it was originally offered. I understand his proposition to be this: that there shall be no more than onejudge to every 125,000 inhabitants. In other words, the inhabitants of the State estimated at 3,000,000, being divided by 125,000, will give twenty-four circuits. Now, that might all be well enough, but may we not find great difficulty in arranging the circuits upon that basis or upon any other basis made upon that principle? Mr. MEDILL. Will the gentleman permit me to make an observation? When Ill-'nois is apportioned into congressional districts, say fourteen, the Legislature does not undertake to make them all of exactly equal population, or greater than a certain number. If the ratio is say 125,000, some of the districts may contain 140,000, and others only 100,000. Why cannot the same thing be done in apportioning judicial districts, and have them of unequal population? Mr. TURNER. I do not understand that it is the same system we have adopted in regard to our representation in the General Assembly. I understand, by the ratio which we have adopted in regard to representation, we give every ratio a representative. But it is not intended to give to every ratio of one hundred and twenty-five thousand or one hundred thousand, ajudge. There isjust this radi cal difference-thatthe proposition adopt ed by the Committee of the W~hole is this: The State shall be divided into cirouits of not less than one hundred thousand. N'ow that is easily understood. The CHAIRMAN. The committee have not adopted it. They have only stricken out ninety thousand. Mr. TURNER. Now, if we divide three millions, the population of the State. by one hundred thousand, we shall have thirty judges. Are we to have one hundred thousand inhabitants in every circuit? No. That is not the intention. But the intention is that the General As sembly may create one circuit with fifty thousand, another with seventy'five thou sand, another with one hundred thousand, another with one hundred and twenty five thousand, and another with one huln dred and fifty thousand inhabitanlts. Now, I submit, Mr. Chairman, that this will lead to almost interminable confusion in the General Assembly. When the question of dividing comes up before that body, we shall find, for instance, the member from Whiteside~[Sr. McCoy], have been stated will not flow out from such a system. They may not, to any great extent; but still it is possible that they may. Under the present Constitution, where the Legislature had full power, not only to create the necessary number of circuits, but to require the necessary labor to keep judges of these circuits employed, we have heard it urged upon the floor on a former occasion that there were actually a number of circuits in the State, in which the State is paying the expenses of the judges with only a few weeks of labor to do in the year; while we heard from the gentleman fiom Woodford [ Mr. Bayne] and others, that the delay of justice in their circuits, amounts almost to a denial of it. And if we adopt the rule of creating circuits upon the basis of one hundred thousand to a circuit, without requiring any given number to be in any particular circut, as it has been in the past, it will be in the future, and for that reason, I am of opinion that the proposition as it stands, of 100,000 minimum, secures the same object, and at the samue time avoids the danger and the evil that may rise from the adoption of the substitute. .,I think and will say, while I am on the floor, that one hundred thousand as a minimum, is, in my judgment, small enough for a circuit, more especially if the county courts are to have an increased jurisdiction, and even without it, I am not sure but that the minimum would be better than to have no limit at all. It does not follow that because one hundred thousand is fixed as a minimum, that the Legislature could not make a circuit larger, where the wants of the people admit of it. Indeed, in practice, it will hardly ever be found that the circuit will contain precisely that number, but always more. It cannot contain less, aid unless in following county boundaries we should happen to attach a number of counties together,i which exactly come to the figure, we will have to go beyond it, and finally get circuits ranging from one hun dred and ten to one hundred and twenty five thousand, with the minimum of one hundred thousand, necessarily, because we cannot get less by splitting county boundaries. We must, in almost every instance, get something more, and if i, following county boundaries, we should select four or five counties that do not come up exactly to the figure, but give a single number under it, we have got to add the number neces sary to to make one hundred thousand, and being obliged to add a whole countyr conltiguous to the others, the minimum secures practically an average of one hundred and twenty thousand to the circuit. Mr. SKINNER. That is not the effect of the amendment. It operates as a minimum of not much over eighty thousand. There shall not be more circuits in the State than are equal to one hundred thousanld to a circuit. Nowa we do not have to use fractions;i we do not have to go by fixed numbers in order to) get a cir cuit. Mr. RICE. I understand the effect of the substitute would be to lim~it the number of circuits on that basis of population, but it does not secure the equality of circuits, nor an equal division of labor among the court. There may be a circuit of one hundred and eighty thousand or a circuit of a single county, under this rule with twenty-five thousand; and if it MoH 10, 18w. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1127 one hundred thousand, I take the position that it is incompetent to recede from that d ecision. The CHAIRMAN. The Chair will decide that it is still competent to amend the amendment. It is a new subject mat ter-has not been acted upon. The question is upon striking out one hundred thousand, and inserting one hun dred and twenty-five thousand. Mr. SKINNER. Mr. Chairman: I be lieve that the number one hundred thousand has been settled upon as suit able to the more densely populated, as well as the more sparsely settled portions of the State. To strike it out now, will only reopen what has been in a manner compro mised. Mr. TINCHER. Mr. Chairman: Cer tainly the gentleman is welcome to vote against it; but when we have decreased the business of those circuits, I can see no impropriety in reducing the number. Mr. SKINNER. Mr. Chairman: The law will remain the same, except when they adopt a change. Mr. TINCHER. And, Mr. Chairman, if they do not desire one hundred and twenty-five thousand, they can vote it down; but we insist that we have the right to vote upon it. Mr. CUMMINGS. Mr. Chairman: I wish to state that I voted for the largest number to be inserted to fill the blank. If it was competent for the committee to accept the amendment, I would vote for it. Believing, as I do, that this commit tee has not the power The CHAIRMAN. The Chair will call the gentleman from Fulton [Mr. Cummings] to order. The gentleman has a right to appeal from the decision of the Chair. Mr. CUMMINGS. Mr. Chairman: I am not appealing, but I want to state my position. I think this is in order. I un derstood the Chair to decide that it was competent to take the question on the amendment of the gentleman from Yer milion [Mr. Tincher] to the amendment of the gentleman from Coles [Mr. Brom well]. If the amendment to the amend ment is adopted, then my point of order is good-that we cannot strike out and fill after having once filled the blank. The question being on the amendment offered by Mr. Tincher, to the amendment offered by Mr. Bromwell, a division was ordered. The committee divided, when, there being twenty in the affirmative, and twenty-five in the negative, the amend, ment, to insert one hundred anl twenty five thousand in place of one hundred thousand was not agreed to. ; The question being on the amendment * offered by Mr. Bromwell, a division of the question was ordered. ; Mr. WASHBURN. Mr. Chairman: t When this amendment was fiest presented m to me, before being presented to the com mittee, I was inclined to favor it instead M of the proposition of the Judiciary Cm orn I mittee; but as it has been amended and now stands, it fixes in perpetuity about twenty-five or thiuty circuit judges in the t State, utterly beyond the control of the Legislature. I had hopes, and still hope M this Committee of the Whole does not intend to establish twenty-five or thirty Mr CMMNS.Mr Carmn:Te circuit judges. teSaeo h ntdSae. tas t Mr. BROMWELL. Will the gentleB man yield to allow me to correct him g Mr. WASHBURN. Of course; I am always willing to be corrected. Mr. BROMWELL. It says not more than one circuit for on e hundred thou sand population; but they can make the circuits less in number, and larger in population. They can make one of five hund red thousanndand put the whole State in ten circuits. Mr. WASHBURN. My understand ing was, that the State was to be divided into circuits that average one hundred thousand population. Mr. BROMWELL. No; not less than one hundred thousand. Mr' WASHBURN. I stand correct ed. The question being on Mr. Bromwell's amendment, and a division of the ques tion having been called for, the question was taken on the first clause, as fol lows: Strike out the words "containing notless than ninety thousand inhabitants." A division was ordered. The committee divided, when, there being thirty-two in the affirmative and fourteen in the negative, the motion to strike out was agreed to. The CHAIRMiAN. The question is upon the insertion of the amendment of the genetleman from Coles [Mr. Brom well]. The Clerk read the amendment offered by Mr. Bromwell, as follows: Strike out the words "containing not less than one hundred thousand population each," and insert "not more than one for every one hundred and twenty thousand inhabitants of the State." The amendment was agreed to. The CHAIRMAN. The question is on the substitute offered by the gentleman from Wayne [Mr. Hanna]. The Clerk read the substitute offered by Mr. Hanna, as follows: The State (exclusive of Cook county) shall, before the present circuit judges go out of office, be divided into judicial circuits, and for each of which one judge shall be elected by the electors thereof. The judicial circuit shall be formed of con tiguous counties, and as nearly as possible, of compact form; but no circuit shall be formed, and when once formed, shall not be dimin ished, unless the records of such courts show that in the year last preceding such change, at least one hundred and eighty-two days of court was held in such circuit. Mr. TINCHER. Mr. Chairman: I would like to put a word there. It says, "shall not be reduced." I think it should read so that it can not be changed even to increase it. The substitute offered by Mr. Hanna was not agreed to. M~r. McDOWELL. Mr. Chairman: It is nearly six o'clock, and I move that the committee now rise. ['No!" "No!" "Let's vote on the section."] The motion was not agreed to. The CHAIRMAN. The question is on the adoption of the section, as amended. Mr. SEDGWICK. Mr. C:hairman': I offer the following amendment:. Strike out all after the word "formed," inl he sixth line, and insert the words "no circuit shall be reduced in size, unless the judge therein is required to hold court more than eight months in each year, for at least two successive years.'> ;That is in lieu of the words "shall not rbe changed until after the next census of the State or the United States." It also -strikes out that portion that I reminded gentlemen should be stricken out to con should occur that any judge or any number of judges, having secured the position, and having the emoluments, should seek to relieve themselves of a part of their labor by throwing it upon other, circuits, they might make their circuits so as to impose a vast amount of labor upon the other circuits and still observe this rule. We do not secure an equal division of labor or business. I hope the substitute will not be adopted. Mir. BROWNING. Mr. Chairman: I would be glad if the friends of a limitation upon the legislative power could bring their minds to an approval of the amendment offered by the gentleman from Coles [Mr. Bromwell]. -It does not accomplish all that was intended by the original section, but secures the best part of it. The great abuse to be apprehended from the Legislature is the creation of an unnecessary number of circuits. This effectually guards against that. Now, it is true, as was urged by some gentleman, an equality of population would not always secure an actual equality of business and labor. But the amendment offered by the gentleman from Coles [Mr. Bromwell], is so flexible in its nature that whilst it does guard absolutely against an unneccessary multiplication of circuits, it leaves it entirely in the power of the Legislature to equalize the labor, by a fair distribution of the business, without reference to population. It is true that there may be an unequal distribution of labor, that there may be some circuits unreasonably large and others unreasonably small. - It is true that is possible, but we cannot hedge against mere possibilities of abuses. We must leave some latitude, and where there is latitude and discretion there is always a possibility of abuse-but is it probable that there will be any such abuse? I think not. I think the probabilities are that the General Assembly will be actuated by a desire on almost all occasions to equalize the labor and business of the judges, It is still possible that there may be influences brought to bear upon the General Assembly, which will swerve them from that just line of conduct, but it is by no means probable. And as the amendment of the gentleman from Coles [Mr. Bromwell] obviates all objections that I have heard on this side of the hall, and gives nearly all the security asked on the other side, I think it strikes the proper medium. Whilst it imposes the necessary and just limitations on the legislative power for evil, it leaves at the same time the necessary latitude of action for good. The CHAIRMAN. The amendment of the gentleman from Coles [Mr. Bromwell] is to insert certain words. The first question is upon striking out the words connected with the number, as moved by the gentleman froms Logan [M~r. Parks]. Mr. TllqCIER. Mr. Chairman: Clan we not have a vote upon one hundred and twenty-five thousand? The CH1AIRMAN. Yes, sir. By moving to strike out from the amendment one hundred thousand, and inserting — Mr. TI~qCHER. I make that motion then, fivr. Chairman. Mr. CUMMINGS. Mr. Chairman:The committee having decided to strike out ninety thousand} and to insert in its place d t t 1 t a 0 t a t n I t i t r t a a c i a t 8 c h i i t 0 e a t t s t t t t DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1127 MAno 10, 1870. one hundred and twenty-five thousand inhab- We thank Thee for the promises of Thy itants of this State; and for each of which one word, which are yea and amen to all who judge shall be elected by the electors thereof. trust in Thee, that ultimately the Lord Jesus The judicial divisions and judicial circuits Christ shall reign in all the earth, the Lord shall be formed of contiguous counties, in as of Lords and King of Kings. nearly compact form as the population neces- And in the work of this day wilt Thou help sary for the same will permit, and when form- us to realize each one, in all the duties comed shall not be changed until after the next mitted to us, that we work not for ourselves census of the United States. The creation, alone but for generations to come. alteration or change of any judicial division Bless in mercy Thy servants here; bless or judicial circuit shall not affect the tenure them in their families at home; guide them of office of any judge. in all they undertake, and may we all at last ucdnse The amendment offered by Mr. Cary be gathered in the fullness of the Divine love rd h c m t ewas not agd to. to dwell with Thee, we ask for Jesus' sake. was n ot agreed to. Amen. Mr. SCHOLFIELD. Mr. Chairman: Ae. I move to amend the section as follows: EADING OF THE JOURNAL. Strike out the sentence commencing with The Secretary read the journal of the the words, "the judicial divisions" in the last day's proceedings. fourth line, and ending with the words QUESTION OF PRIVILEGE. "United States" in the seventh line, and in- sert the following: Mr. TURNER. Mr. President: I The judicial divisions and judicial circuits rise to a privileged question in behalf shall be formed of contiguous counties in as of myself and some other gentlemen who nearly a compact form as circumstances will seem to be placed in a different position permit. But no new circuit shall be created, nor shall the boundaries of circuits be changed from what we occupied in regard to a by the General Assembly, except at the ses- matter of considerable importance, and sions to be held next succeeding the taking of which may affect some members of this the State or the United States census. Convention, not only here but elsewhere. I will explain to the committee the rea- I wish to correct a certain statement, that son why I desire the adoption of that it may go out to the country as the facts amendment. It would seem from the really are. ae dreading of the language incorporated in I find in the Chicago T'ibune, of March the report of the committee, that it was 10, what purports to be a report of the nintended to prohibit any change in the Committee on Federal Relations, as folboundaries of the circuits until after the lows: taking of the census of the State, or of FEDERAL RELATIONS. the United States, after which time the The Committee on Federal Relations had a circuits might be changed or new circuits meeting last night, and agreed upon two reformed; but that after that time there ports-majority and minority. The commitpt would not seem to be any prohibition to tee, as will be recollected, is composed of wakout ofsthste change of Circuits at all. five republicans and four democrats, as fol State ohe oe wircs th a In lows: Emmerson, Peirce, Anthony, Wagner, The idea which the committee intended Tincher, Abbott, Turner, Fox and Wendling. to convey, and which we are exceedingly Judge Emmerson is absent, and has been anxious shall be made plain beyond ques- most of the session, on account of serious ill, tion, is that no change shall take place in ness. This leaves the committee politically equally divided, and it has, of course, been the boundaries of the circuits except it be df it to agree u pon their work. At the made by the Legislature next succeeding meeting last night, the democrats conceded the taking of the census, which would be the right of the republicans to make a majorat the expiration of every five years, co- ity report on certain propositions, with the mencing with 1870 At that time the privilege of making a minority report. The - republicans then presented the following secboundaries may be changed or new cir- tions, which are a portion of the propositions cuits formed, but at no other time, in presented by Mr. Anthony, to the Convention order to prevent every session of the Leg- some time since: islature from tampering with, and chang- "SECTIoN 1. That the State of Illinois shall t i f, be and forever remain one of the United ing circuits, without regard to the wants States of America, and a member of the of the public. American Federal Union, and no power ex The CHAIRMAN. The question is on ists in this or any other State of the Federal the amendment of the gentleman from Union to secede or dissolve their connection bttanomrthnoe eClark [Mr. Scholfield] therewith, or perform any act tending to imciarcuits, [ M r. Schofielpair, subvert, or resist the supreme authority Mr. SHARP. Mr. Chairman: I move of the Unit ed States. the committee rise, report progress, and "SEC. 2. Every citizen of the United States thatthesecircuitssh-ask leave to sit again. owes paramount allegiance to the Constitu countiesinascos The motion was agreed to. tion and government of the United States; tiguous'and the Constitution of the United States, ADJOURNMENT. and the laws and treaties made in pursuance Mr wENDLING I move the Conen- thereof, shall be the supreme law of the land. new ircits r aditonalciruits isthee Mr WEDLIN. Imov theConen- "SEc. 3. The Constitution of the United tion do now adjourn. States confers full powers on the federal gov The motion was agreed to. ernment to maintain and perpetuate its exist theseneo the Convention (at six o'clock and ence, and whenever any State, Or any portion fi the Convenmionu(tes)o'clock adune. of the States, or people thereof, attempt to secede from the Federal Union, or forcibly . a_ _ resist the execution of its laws, the federal asunderthefirsapporti tSIXTY-SEOD DAY. government may, by warrant of the Consti tution, employ armed force in coercing and Mr: SKINNER Itmaybethacompelling obedience to its authority." FRIDAY, March 11, 1870. A separate vote was taken on each proposi cuits,theruleofpopulationuponthe The Conventi.tion. The vote on the second was a tie, every basis of one hundred thousand to a circuit h P democratic member voting against it, snd the ps., and was called to order by the Pres- republicans for it. After this, Mr. Abbott mdent. offered a resolution, and supported it by a upon~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ in length, that this is a confederate govern PRAYER. ~ ~ ~~ speech of nearly three-qtuarters of an hour the mtionof th genlemanfromPrayer was offered by the Rev. E. Imenet,n~td nlo tpower existsin xitrato cgoevre a S Walker of Springfield, as follows: State. I understand that the resolution re O Lord, our God, we come into Thy presence ceived his vote, and that of one other demoagain at the beginning of this new day, to im- crat. plore the continuance of the Divine favor and Now, Mr. Chairman, if there had been blessing. a deliberate attempt made to misstate the of ook, hal, bfoe te epiatin o te My, is sevans erebe uied y Teeaction of the Committee on Federal Rethis day, that all their works may be founded in the eternal principles of righteousness, lations it could not have been more sue justice and truth. cesfully done. Q form with section twelve, to wit: "the creation, alteration or change of any judicial division or judicial circuit, shall not affect the term of office of any judge," which make s it conform to the amendment to section twelve. The Clerk read the amendment offered by Mr. Sedgwick, as follows: Strike out all after the word "formed," in sixth line, and insert "no circuit shall be reduced in size, unless the judge thereof is required to hold court more than eight months in each year, for at least two successive years." Mr. ALLEN, of Alexander. I would like to ask the gentleman from DeKalb [Mr. Sedgwick] how that can be ascertained 9 Mr. SEDGWICK. I suppose it is a fact that if a court has been held more than eight months in a year, it will be easy to prove it. I suppose a certified copy of the fact would be sufficient proof. The question being on the amendment offered by Mr. Sedgwick, it was not agreed to. The CHAIRMAN. The question is upon the adoption of the section, as amended. Mr. CARY. I merely rise to call the attention of the committee to one thing that is incongruous. There is a Federal census taken once in ten years, and there is also a State census once in ten years. The legislative committee decided to omit the State census as a needless expense: and to make this harmonize with that, I move to strike out of section seven the words, " State or." Mr. WALL. I would like to call the attention of the chairman to the fact that I do not see any provision in the section, as it now stands, as to what basis shall be adopted by the Legislature, when they come to form new circuits. I am asking for information, whether the section as it now stands, contains any mandate whatever upon the Legislature, as to the population that should be contained in the circuits to be formed after the first apportionment. The section provides, that the State, exclusive of the county of Cook, shall, before the'expiration of the terms of office of the present judges, be divided into judicial circuits, but that no more than one judge for one hundred thousand inhabitants shall be provided for. It then provides that these circuits shall be formed of contiguous counties in as compact a form as the circumstances will permit. Now, when we come to change the circuits and make new circuits or additional circuits, is there here any provision as to what basis of population shall be adopted in making these new circuits? Ought there not to be something added, so that circuits under the new census, shall be on the same basis as under the first apportionment? Mr. SKINNER. It may be that ashen ~the State is first divided into judicial circuits, the rule of population upon the basis of one hundred thousand to a circuit, may prevail, but there is no rule for the future. The CHAIRMAN. The question is upon the motion of the gentleman from JoDaviess [Mr. Cary], to strike cut of the seventh line, the words "of the State or,"X so that the section will read: SEG. 13. The State (exclusive of the countyr of Cook), shall, before the expiration of the terms of office of the present judges of the circuit courts, be divided into judicial circuits, containing not more than one for every CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION FRIDAY, 1128 DEBATES AND PROCEEDIN1GS. al Relations. That resolution came up for consideration, and the gentleman from Pike [Mr. Archer] asked the privi lege of explaining it, which the commit tee granting, he explained at some length. These are the simple facts as they oc curred. Now, I should not have troubled the Convention with these remarks, if it had not been that any person casually reading this article in the Tribune would suppose that every democratic member of that committee wan opposed to all the sections quoted, and had agreed upon a min-ority report. We have agreed upon a majority and minority repoit in regard to the resolu tion of the gentleman from Shelby [Mr. Wendling], but upon nothing else. We afl, democrats and republicans, agreed that the other sections quoted in the T-ibune should be reported to the Convention, and that we should all have an opportu n ity of giving our views upon it there. Mr. ABBOTT. Mr. President: It is true, as the gentleman from Stephenson [Mr. Turner] has stated, that I never of fered the resolution referred to, nor did I make a speech of three-quarters of an hour. I only stated when I came to vote on the resolution of the gentleman froa Pike [Mr. Archer], that it was not clear to my mind; that I came to this country some thirty-five years ago; that I had been at British subject, but I looked upon the government and Constitution of the Uni ted States as paramount to everything, and for these reasons I supported those two grand princ;ples, and that, under no circumstance, could I vote against them. I sat down under that impression, and I see I am made the author of the resolution, which is by no means true; and for what purpose they are ascribed to me, I am unable to say. Mr. ARCHER. Mr. President: As this resolution was offered by myself, in the early part of the Convention, was re ferred, upon my motion, to the Committee on Federal Relations, has been attributed to my colleague, and referred to in the arti cle in the Chicago Tribune, together with the remarks that I made upon the resolu tion in support of it, I deem it to be due, as well to my colleague as to myself, that I should make a few brief remarks. I introduced this resolution in the earlvy part of the session. It was a resolution that asserted nothing whatever about this being a confederate government, or as to the powers by warrant of the Con stitution to coerce a State, one way or the other. The resolution simply asserted that the sovereignty of the people, sub JoeCt to the limitation of the Constitution of the United States, resided with the people of the State, and that to that sovereignty allegiance was due; that every ci-~izen of the State owed obedience to the Constitution and laws so tong as the sovereign power in the State-the peop l e-permitted such Constitution to remain in force; but that upon the ques tion whether such Constitution should be abrogated or remain in force, the sovereiga power of the people was paramount, and commanded the allegiance of the citizen. It simply asserted that the States sub-i ject to limitations imposed upon them by othte Constitution of the United States, were distinct sovereign political communities, that the sovereignty of each State resided with the people of the State, and wthat sovereignty was not due to the Con In the first place, section on e w as adop te d by a un animous vote of the commit tee-not a single member voting against it, or saying one word against it. Section three was likewise adopted with but one dissenting voice, and that dissenting voice was with a sort of expla nation that may clear away the doubts in regard to it. In regard to section two, there was a little difference of opinion. I objected somewhat to the phraseology of section two. I entertained some views a little different from some other gentlemen Some gentlemen objected to section two on account of the language; "Every citizen of the United States owes paramount allegiance to the Constitution and government of the United States." They thought the word "government" had been perverted in years gone by, and ought to be stricken out. Then it would probably have received almost, if not quite, the unanimous vote of the com mittee. But that is neither here nor there. It was agreed in committee, without a dis senting vote, that the section should be reported to the Convention. I reserved the right to give my views in Convention in regard to that section, and so did some other genatletnen, but there was not one word said about making a minority re port-not a word. There was no division politically upon the subject. But, sir, the gentleman from Shelby [Mr. WendliPig], had, at an early stage of the Convention, introduced a resolution in regard to when amendments to the Constitution of the United States should hereafter be ratified by the General As sembly. Subsequently I had offered a resolution upon the same subject. That section came up after these sections had been disposed of, and in taking a vote upon that resolution, we found that we could not agree upon a report, and it wa-agreed that upon that particular resolution there should be a minoritv and majority report-notwithstanding the committee on that question was evenly divided. But this article in the Tribune places the democratic members of the committee in the false position of opposing certain axiomatic principles of governmnent which they, in common with all enlightened men, approve. Again, it i9 said: "After this, Mr. Abbott (who was a member of the committee), offered a resolution and supported it by a speech of nearly three.quarters of an hoar.'+ In the first place, the gentleman from Scott [Mr. Abbott] offered no resolution whatever. H~e made no speech whatever, excepting upon this second section in regard to the kind of allegiance which is due government. The gentleman, said that he had once been a British subject, had renounced his allegiance to that government, had taken upon himself allegiance to this government, and he wished to maintain that allegiance in its fullest sense. That is all he said. There was no such resolution offered by him, and no. such speech made by him. It will be remembered that another gentleman —not a member of the committee-but the gentleman from Pike [Mr. Archer] —about the time that these sectionls were introduced in the Convention, offered a resol,~tion in regard to where our allegiance was properly due, which was referred to the Committee on Feder-, 283 SUBMISSION OF JUDICIAL ARTICLE. Mr. BENJAMIN offered a communication from the members of the bar of McLean county, praying that the judicial article may be submitted to the people, as a separate proposition. The communication was read and ref ferred to the Committee on Judiciary. OBSERVANCE OF THE SABBATK. Mr. BAYNE. Mr. President: I have petitions signed by some four hundred arnd fifty citizens of Illinois, residing in the counties of Putnam, Randolph, Montgomery, Bureau, Menard and Ford, in reference to the proper observance of the Sabbath, which I desire to present. These commu-naications have been coming in frequently from various parts of the State, and have been heretofore referred to the Committee on Miscellaneous Subjects. The committee have seen fit to reject those petitions, communicate back to the Convention, and asked to be discharged from further consideration of the subject. 1 ask, Mr. President, that the petitions lie upon the table, and I desire to give notice that at some future day I will call them up. I have also a petition from citizens of the same counties in reference to the Bible in common schools, which I wish ref terred to the Committee on Education. The PRESIDENT. They will be referred, as requested. PRINTING CERTAIN ARTTICLES OF TH]B CONSTITUTION. Mr. ARCHER. Mr. President: I desire to offer a resolution. The Secretary read the resolution offered by Mr. Archer, as follows: Resolved, That co pies of t he following articles, as the same have been adopted in Convention and Committee of the Whole, be printed in pamphlet form for the use of the members and officers of this Convention, Drior to the adjournment of this Con venti-on on the seventeenth inst., viz: 1st. The Preamble' 2d. Boundaries of the State. 3d. Article on Mines and Mininag 4th. Article on Canals. 5th. Article on Township Organizations 6th. Article on Roads. 7th. Article on Homestead Exemptions. 8th. Article on Militia. 9th. Article on the Legislative Departm ment. -MAIZCII 11, 1870. 1129 stitution and laws, but to the sovereign power that made and unmade them. Mr. BUXTON. I would like to in quire if the merits of the resolution are open to discussion? Mr. ARCHER. Not at all. I am stating what the resolution was, and that it was not correctly stated in this article. I am not discussing the merits. The PRESIDENT. Gentlemen, of course, are entitled to correct erroneous statements made by the press. Mr. ARCHER. Mr. Preside.Dt: I would Only Say that these resolutions carefully distinguish between allegiance to, the soverei-a power that makes all Constitutions atid governments, and obedience to such Constitutions and governments, as long as they remain in force. NothiDg was said about the character of the government, nor any opinion expressed as to the warrant of the Coiastitution to coerce a State. PETITIONS AND COMMUNICATIONS. The PRESIDENT. The presentation of petitions and communications is now in order. 1130~~~~~ COSIUTOA CO-~I~ RD Mr. BROMWELL. Mr. President: I cannot see the benefit to come from this printing. The newspapers have published all these thes e t ings ab(gut the country as much as they were wanted, and I do not think any special benefit will accrue to the community by printing and re-printind these unfin ished articles - or ev en those that are finished. If they are finished, tere e is no need of printing them; and bif th ey a r e not, i t would be just as well, in my opinion, to wait and see what we will do with them finally. I w ould not spend an y money in pr in ti ng any rmore of them. The PRESIDENT. Will gentlemen suggest numbers to fill the blanks? Mr. ARCHER. Mr. Presiden t: I would suggest one thousand copies. The PRESIDENT. The question is on the motion of the g ent leman from Pike [dMr. Archer], to tlle t he bla nk with one thousand. The motion was agre ed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is on the adoption of the resolution. Mr. ANDERSON. Mr. President: I hope the resolution w ill not b e adopted. It is cot necessary. It will be a useless expense. All the city and county papers have publ is hed eve ry articl e that has b een a do pted by this C onvention, and for us now to publish them again is entirely superfluous. I hop e we will not adopt this resolution. Mr. HAINES, of Lake. Mr. P res ident: Whilst I hav e g reat con fidence in the new s papers a s channel o f information, they are not the official organi of this Convention. I have discovered that the newspapers have been p ublishing what purports to b te cti o he acoention of this Convention, but inrsmuch as their in form a tion ha s not b een furnished them official ly, many er rors have crept into the reports. We have had an example of it here this morning, not int ention a l on the Dart of the news papers, or those who urnishe the the iufformation, but proceeding from want of correct information of our proceedings. There is no member upon this floor, who can give in d etail wbat we have done. This publication will be of great service to us as well as to the p eople, and it will ecost but a t rifle. But why this objection whenever any information is called for? We vote money without limit at times, without seeming to understand what we are about, but when a small appropriation is called for for the purpose Of giving information to the people, "it is a great expense." Now, we must understand th~t the people are a part of the institution which comprises our organization here. The people want the same information that we want, as they are to vote upon our work. They are the law-making power of this State Therefore, it seems to mue, the people will Call for this correct information. JUDICIAL DEPARTMENT. Mr. SKIiNI ER. Mr. President:] move that the Convention do now resoles itself into Committee of the Whole t( resume the consideration of the special order. The question being upon the motion o Mr. Skinner, a division was ordered. The Convention divided; when, ther, being twenty-three in the affirmative, an( twenty-three in the negative, it was no agreed to. 10th. Article on the Executive Department. 11th. Article on the Judiciary. Mr. ARCHER. Mr. President: My L object in offering this resolution is in m view of the adjournment, or possible ad- t journmeut of this body on the seventeenth t instant, until the twelfth of April. All i the articles referred to in the resolution, t with the exception of the article on homestead exemption, the executive, and the article on the judiciary, have been l finally adopted in Committee of the Whole, and in Convention, and referred t to the Committee on Revision and Ad justment. The article on homestead exemptions has been considered in Commnit- s tee of the Whole, and lies on the table, to be considered in Convention, and a that is the case, I believe, with the report of the Committee on the Executive 1 Department. In view of our adjournment, I have thought that it would be proper this resolution should pass, as the people will desire to know wh it h as been done in t Convention -how much of our work has been completed. By putting it in compact form the people will have it before them, and be enabled to pass upon our work, and we shall be better informed, when we re-assemble, what the feeling of the people is in regard to our work, so far as we shall have accomplished it. Moreover, every gentleman upon this floor will probably find his constituents, when he returns, all anxious to know what has been done. The journal of proceedings and debates-has been kept before the people in a disconnected form, and they have been unable, through that form, to arrive at anv correct conclusion as to what has been done; so that no del egate on this floor, I presume, will be able to recollect and inform his constitu ents, when he returns to them, what has been done. I have thought, that by putting our work in pamphlet form, the members of this Convention will be relieved of hav ing to tell, from recollection, what has been done, and the people will be enabled to form an opinion of the work of the Convention before we re-assemble. This is the view with which I have offered the resolution, and it ought to be adopted. The PRESIDENT. There is a blank to be filled, of the number of copies to be printed. Mr. HAINES, of Lake. I would like to hear the resolution read. The Clerk read the resolution offered by Mr. Archer, as followvs: Resolved, That --— copies of the following articles, as the same have been adopted in CJonve~ntion and Comnmittee of the Whole, be priwced, in pamphlet form, for the use of the members and officers of- this Convention, prior to the adjournment of this Convention on the seventeenth inst., ~iz: 1. The Preamble. 2. Boundaries of-the State. 3.- Article on Mines and Mining, 4. Article on Canals. S. Article on Township Organization. 6. Article on Roads. T. Article on Homestead Exemption. 8. Article on the Militia. 9. Article on Legislative Department. 10. Article on Executiv~e Department. 11. Alrticle on the Judiciary. Mr. HAINES, of Lake. Mr. Presi dent: I offer the following as an amend ment:' ~And suc other articles as may be adopted at the time of said adjournm~ent, PRINTING ARTICLES OF CONSTITUTION, AGAIN. Mr. ARCHER. Mr. President: I call for the previous question upon the adoption of my resolution to print one thousand copies of the articles adopted. The motion for the previous question was agreed to, and the main question was ordered. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the adoption of the motion to print one thousand copies, in pamphlet form of certain articles of the Co,nstitution. The motion was agreed to. PROPOSED AMENDMENTS TO THE JUDICIAL ARTICLE. Mr. WELLS. Mr. President: I offer the ffllowing proposition for reference to the Committee of the Whole, to be considered with the judiciary article. The proposed amendments were referred to the Committee of the Whole. [The judiciary article of 1848, and the proposed amendments thereto, are as fol lows -the amendments being in italics:] ARTICLE -. JUDICIARY DEPARTMENT. SECTION 1. The judici al p ower s of this State shall be vested in one supreme court, in cincuit courts, in cou nty court s and in justices of the peace, and in s uch courts of uniform organization and jurisdiction, as may be created by general law. SEC. 2. The supreme court shall consi st of seven judges, four of whom shall form a quorum; and-n the concurrence of four of said judges shall always be necessary to a decision. SEC. 3. The Genera l sAsssemnbly shall provide .for the election of judges of the suprene court, who shall hold their offices Jbr nine years. SEC. 4. The supreme court may have original jurisdiction in cases re la tive to the reven ue, in cases of mandamus, habeas corpus, and in s uc h cases of impeachment a s may be by law directed to be taoied before it, and s hal l atave appellate jurisdiction in all other ca ses. SEC. 5. The supreme court shall hold'termlins annually, at such times and places as are or may be provided for by law. SEC. 6. The State shall be divided into judi cial districts, in each of which one judge shall be elected by the qualified electors thereof, who shall hold his office for the term of six years, and until his successor shall be com missioded and qualified. SEC. 7. There shall be two or more terms of the circuit court held annually in each county of this State, at such times as shall be provid ed by law; and such court shall have jurisdic tion in all cases at law and equity, and in all cases of appeals from all inferior courts. SEC. 8. All vacancies in the supreme and circuit courts shall be filled by elections as atoresaid: Prodided, however, That if the un expired term does not exceed one year, such vacancy may be filled by executive appoint ment. SEC. 9. Judges shall receive a salary, which shall be paid quarterly, and shall not be dimin ished during their termn of office, and shall re ceive no other compensation or perquisite what ever. SEC. 10. No person shall be eligible to the office of judge of any court of this State, who is not a citizen of the United States, and who shall not have resided in this State five years next preceding his election, and who shall not for two years next preceding his election have resided in the division, circuit or county in which heshall be elected. SEC. 11. For any reasonable cause, to be [ entered on the journals of each house, which shall not be sufficient ground for impeach) ment, both justices of the supreme court and judges of the circuit court shall be removed from office, on the vote of two-thirds of the members elected to each branch of the Genf eral Assembly: Provided, always, that no member of either house of the General As sembly shall be eligible to fill the vacancy oc" casioned by such removal: Provided, also, i that no removal shall be made unless the t justice or judge complained of shall have been served with a copy of the complaint CONSTITUTIONAL,CONVENTION Fp,.IDAY, 1130 MAROU ii, 1870. DEBATES AXD PROCEEDINGS. 113! SEC. 13. The State (exclusive of the county of Cook), shall, before the expiration of the terms of office of the present judges of the circuit courts, be divided into judicial circuits not more than one circuit for every one hundred thousand inhabitants of this State, and for each of which one judge shall be elected by the electors thereof. The judicial divisions and judicial circui's shall be formed of contiguous counties, in as nearly compact form as the population necessary for the same will permit, and when formed, shall not be changed until after the next census of the State, or the United States. The creation, alteration or change of any Judicial division or judicial circuit shall not affect the tenure of office of any judge. Mr. WELLS. Mr. Chairman: I have referred a proposition to the Committee (of the Whole to be considered in connection with the report of the Judiciary Committee. I was induced to offer that because everything contained in it, save about ten lines, has once been voted upon by the people, adopted and acquiesced in without complaint-for more than twenty years. As far as I am informed, there has been no expression of discontent during the whole existence of the Constitution of 1848. It is perfectly apparent to gentlemen that so long as this report has been under consideration, there has been a variance of opinion which has been perfectly irreconcilable. Gentlemen upon one part of the floor are directly opposed to what gentlemen upon another part favored, and it was declared by manv that if this or that were adopted, it would be fatal to the interests of many sections of the State. The CHAIRMAN. Will the gentleman suspend a moment. The Chair had lost sight of the amendment of the gentleman from Clark [Mr. Scholfield]. The Chair will now state that the question is upon striking out in the thirteenth section from the word "thereof" in seventh line, down to the word "United States," and inserting the following: The judicial divisions and judicial circuits shall be formed of contiguous counties, in as nearly a compact form as circumstances will permit. But no new circuit shall be created, nor shall the boundaries of circuits be changed by the General Assembly, except at the sessions to be held next preceding the taking of the State or the United States census. Mr. SCHOLFIELD. Mr. Chairman: As that amendment has not been acted upon, permit me to withdraw it and offer the folhwing in its stead. The CHAIRMAN. It is a proposition to strike out e Mr. SCHOLFIELD. It is, sir, and to strike out the sentence commencing with the words, "The judicial circuits," etc., down to, and including the words, "United States" in the seventh line, and insert the following: The judicial divisions and judicial circuits shall be formed of contiguous counties, in as nearly a compact form as circumstances will permit. Now circuits may be formed and the boundaries of circuits changed by the General Assembly at its sessi(ns next preceding the election of the judges of the circuits or divisions sought to be changed, but at no other time. mitr. WELLS. Mr. Chairman: I will wait until all other business is transa c ted as I have but a few moments left, before I proceed. e I do not question the wisdom of this report. For my part, I am willing to concede that it embraces all wisdom, yet I say that the people are not accustomed to it; that it is totally uprooting the against h im. an d shall hav e an oppo rtunity of being l de sard in his defens e. SEc. 12. There shall be in each county a court, to be c plled a un county court. SEC. I,. One county judge shall be elected by the qualified voters of each county, who shall hold his office for four yea,rs, and until his succeasor is el ect ed and qualified. SEC. 14. The jurisdiction of said court shall extend to all probate and such other' juris dic tion as the General Assembly may confer in civil cases, and such criminal cases as may be prescribed by law, where the punishment is by fine only, not exceeding o ne hu ndred dollars. SEcn. 15. The county judge, with such jus tices of t he peace in each coun ty as may be designated by law, shall hold terms for th e transaction of county business, and shall per fo.rm such other duties as the General Assem bly shall prescribe: Plrovided, The General Assembly may require that two justices, to be chosen by the qualified electors of each coun ty, shall sit with the county judge in all cases. SEC. t6. All judges and State's attorneys shall be commissioned by the Governor. SEC. 17. The election of all10fficers and the filling of all vacancies that may happen by death, resignation or removal, not otherwise directed or provided for by this Constitution, shall be made in such mannier as the General Assembly shall direct: Pro,,ided, That no such officer shall be elected by the General Assem bly. SEC. 18. County judges, clerks, sheriffs and other county officers, for willful neglect of duty or misdemeanor in office, shall be liable to presentment or indictment by a grand jury, and trial by a petit jury, and, upon convic tion, shall be removed from office. SEC. 19. All process, writs, and other pro ceedings, shall run in the name of "The Peo ple of the State of Illinois." All prosecu tions slhail be carried on "In the name and by the authority of the People of the State of Illinois," and conclude, "Against the peace and dignity of the same." SEC. 20. There shall be elected in each coun ty in this State, in such districts as the Gen eral Assembly may direct, by the qualified electors thereof, a competent number of justices of the peace, who shall hold their offices for the term of four years, and until their successors shall have been elected and qualified, who shall perform such duties, re ceive such compensation, and exercise such jurisdiction as may be prescribed by law. Courts as now existing shall be continued until otherwise provided by law, and judges now in office shall be continued until their terms expire, or until the Legislature otherwise provide. The General Assemiibly may apply laws creating or extending thejvrisdiction of inferior courts to a class of counties only, or to counties that vote for the same. SEC. 21. Appeals and writs of error may be taken from the circuit court of any county to the supreme court held in the division which includes such county, or, with the consent of all parties in the cause, to the supreme court in the nest adjoining division. JUDICIAL DEPAR~TMENT. Mr. BROWNING. Mr. President. I move the Convention do now resolve it self into Committee of the Whole for the purpose of resuming consideration of the special order. The motion was agreed to. So the Convention, as in Committee of the Whole (Mr. Hayes in the chair), re. sumed the consideration of the report of the Judiciary Committee. Mr. WELLS. Mr. Chairman — JUDICIAL CIRCUITS. The CHAIRMAN. Will the gentle man from Peoria [l~Ir. Wells] suspend a moment, while the Chair states the ques tion? At the time of the last adjournment, the comnmittee was considering the thir teenth section as amended. The question is now upon the adoption '* of the section as amended. The Clerk read section thirteens as amended, as follows: i MARCII 11) 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1'13! institutions they are habituated to. How. ever wise a change may be, the people look upon new things with suspicion. However great evils naay exist in the'law, if the people are accustomed to them, it is difficult to destroy them. I think the last f'ew days employed in discussing this report have beeii welt spent. The experience has paid largely for the time and trouble. It has taught us that nepv prop()Sltlol,ls, however wise t]2ou-11 reported by a committee of very wise men, will excite bitter opposition in different sections, perhaps ou the sole ground that thev are new and strange and at variance wic]i the instiiict of -the people. I theref,)re ask that we consider the present Constituti,on. The Legislative Committee, in framii3g that article, took up the article in the present Constitution, section by section, and only amended when it was deemed necessary. Section after section was adopted as in the present Constitution. So I am informed the executive article was framed. It may be quite possible that the report of the Judiciary Committee was framed in the same way. If so, I defy any gentleman to recognize, ia any particular, the present Constitution in this report. I therefore ask gentlemen to consider the present Constitution in such parts, as are not complained of by the peoplesuch parts sit easily on the people, and which I think it would be the part of wisdom to re-affirm. I think if there is anything that is digaidg the grave of the Constitution we are framing, it is the attempt to edgraft on it so many Dew feature,-, which the people do not understand. I only ask that the ConsLitution, as it is, be carefully considered, and I believe the committee will do what is wise in the premises. [flere the hammer fell]. Mr. SCHOLFIELD. Alr. Clfairman: I desire to explain the purpose of this amendment. The principle embodied in it was considered bv the Committee on the Judiciary and received, as I now recollect, its unanimous endorsement. Subsequently, it was suggested that. it would be more convenient to provide for forna.iDg new circuits, and the change of boundaries in existing circuits, at the sessions of the Legislature to be held immediately ,i,fter the taking'of the census of the United. States or of the State. The section 1132 COSTJTUTIOXAL COVETIO FRIDAY, this Convention. If we choose to correct any inequalities that may exist in the size of existing circuits, it is competent for us to do so. These circuits will then remain in force until they shall be changed by the Legislature, meeting in January, 1873, which is immediately preceding the election of circuit judges. If this danger, which is apprehended by the gentleman from Coles [Mr. Bromwell] exists, it is not only within the power, but it t s the duty of the Convention to correct it by equalizing the circuits, so that the judges who are to receive the compensation of $3,000 per annum, shall be required todo their fair and equal portion of the work. I apprehend, however, that if this Convention does not see that there is such great inequality in the size of the present circuits, as to require a change, the public welfare will not suffer by letting the ex:. isting state of things continue until the expiration of the terms of the judges now in office in 1873. If the evil exists now, we can and should correct it now. If it does not exist, it can scarcely arise bv any sudden change of population in different portions of the State, between now and January, 1873. Mr. BROMWELL. Mr. Chairman: The gentleman's explanation shows that his amendment will involve the necessity of redistricting the judicial circuits by this Convention, and I hardly think the Convention intend to do that; and if that should be left undone, there are circuits in the State where the judge must sit over forty weeks in the year, and others where he does not sit probably twenty weeks. As this would involve the necessity of redistricting, in order to do anything lik'e justice, it would be well to consider whether the Convention will redistrict. There are some reasons for it, and some against. To re-district the State in the Constitution would be to encumber the Constitution with a very long article or section describing the circuits, which, when done, is a mere temporary provision. That is one reason why it should be kept out of the Constitution. Besides that, it would embroil matters a good deal, will necessarily raise more or less questions, and involve more or less opposition to the adoption of the instrument; and if let alone until the Legislature meets next winter, when they will come here without being obliged to attend to local laws, they can take the time and re district the State, to the accommodation of all the circuits under our Constitution. Mr. WALL. Mr. Chairman: I do notr see how the difficulty the gentleman from Coles [Mr. Bromwell] complains of could possibly arise. The section provides that before the expiration of the terms of office, the judges shall be assigned to ju i dicial circuits. It then provides that the circuits shall not be changed except at the session preceding the election of new judges. There is nothing to prevent their confirming them at the next session of the General Assembly, and when they are confirmed they cannot be changed until the session next preceding the election of judges. I do not see how the difficulty could possibly arise. The whole section is to be taken together, and when both sentences are construed together, as they must be, there can be no difficulty or ambiguity about them, as a whole. 1132 CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION FRIDAY, he can be taken away, and his place supplied by a man not wanted, and who may be obnoxious to a large majoritv of the people of the county. Under the old system, this has not unfrequently occu,red. Changes have been made in the bourndaries of circuits, and in the times of holding courts, to gratify the spleen of particular individuals, or to subserve some selfish ends, when no necessity of the public was involved at all. These changes in tinmes of holding courts, and in the boun daries of circuits, while they may have temporarily subserved the selfish purpose for which they were designed, have always resulted in prej udice to the public service. I think there can be found no exception, where these changes have been made, at the dictate of some private individual, when the public service has not, to a greater or less extent, suffered by the change. When the people elect a judge, they ought to have his services. If he turns out to be a bad or incompetent judge, up - on whom should the responsibility of such a selection more properly fall than upon the men who elected him? If he turns out to be a wise selection, who more than they are entitled to the benefit of his impartiality and wisdom? The amendment, it seems to me, Mr. Chairman, is, in itself, so just and proper, that no member of the committee can for a moment hesitate to adopt it. Mr. BRONIWELL. Mr. Chairman: I would like to make a suggestion in reference to the amendment of the gentleman from Clark [Mr. Scholfield]. I do not know that I understand exactly the effect it will have, but it seems to me that if we fix the salary in the Constitution, it will go into effect at the adoption of the Constitutiou, and the judges will all be working on a uniform salary, while the circuits will be unequally distributed as to the amount of labor and time necessary. The judges will receive a uniform salary, while some circuits will require three times the labor of others. That is now tolerated by the judges, and is satisfacto ry to those who do the extra labor, on account of the increased compensation al lowed by docket fees. But it seems to me that if we make a uniform salary, the Legislature should be allowed to equalize the circuits before the gear 1873. It should De the first Legislature that can act, if this amendment is adopted. The Legislature will sit in 1871, but the j udges' termns will not expire till June, 1873. The Legislature will meet in January, 1873, and that will be the first General Assembly that will act under the amendment up to that time. The inequality in the judicial circuits will have to remain, while the judges will not be receiving any more salary in the large circuits than in the small. I wish the gentleman's attention directed to this, that it may be provided for, if the amendment has that effect. Mr. SCHOLFiELD. In answer to the suggestion of the gentleman, I will refer him to the fact that this Convention has, among its standing commnittees, a co~mmittee on Judicial Circuits. The Convention has already assumed and arrogated to itself much more of wisdom and virtue than is allotted to ordinary Legislatures, and it would follow therefore, that now subsequent assemblage of individuals representing the State, will be so competent to adjust those inequalities as Mr. WELLS. Mr. Chairman: I believe it will be conceded by gentlemen on this floor, that the gentleman from Clark [Mr. Scholfield] has stated his amendment and that side of the case more strongly than it has heretofore been presented. Perhaps that is the best statement in support of the proposition that can be made. I will admit that it is. It, however, contains this radical error: The gentleman says that if the people elect a judge, they should be represented by that judge. They should have that judge to preside over them, and not have another judge with whom they may be dissatisfied, sent to preside over them. Now, sir, the judge is not a reprt sentative of the people. If a judge is chosen by the people to represent them, that judge is under the influence, more or less, of the prominent people of that section. That is where the error exists. The judge should hold in one hand the scales of j uttice, and in the other, the sword to execute his righteous decrees, regardless of who is affected. That is the difflculty in attempting to lay the people of this State upon this iron bedstead. The adoption of this section will cut the State up into little circuits; and not only that, but fasten those circuits as they exist upon the people, whether the people are willing or not, for six years at a time. The people in old times used to pray "The Lord to deliver us from the Turk, the comet and the devil." This Constitutional Convention seems to pray "The Lord deliver us from the Turk, the comet, the devil, and the Legislature." The mild effect of the legislative enactments upon the people, is just what they want. They send men here every two years to pass laws. The judges do not need the help of the people in deciding what the laws are. When judges represent a few people, they are placed under the influence of prominent men in those sections which they represent. That influence must be pernicious, and then the idea of the judiciary is gone. That seems to me to be the radical error. If I am wrong, let gentleman explain how. Mr. UNDERWOOD. Mr. Chairman: By the original section, as reported, it is declared that the present circuit judges shall hold their offices during the term for which they were elected. That has since been. ltered, and it reads, "until otherwise provided by law." It is said that in northern Illinois there are circuits where the circuit j udges cannot do all the business, and in southern Illinois there are circuit A where their time is not occupied eight weeks in the year. Hence it was contemplated at the next session of the General Assembly that the circuits might be changed, and the number of j udges reduced, or the circuits equalized. The amendment of the gentleman from Clark [Mr. Scholfield] seems to have been based on the idea, that circuit j udges are not to be removed by the next General Assembly. I fully accord with the pr.inciple of the amendment[, and that was the sentiment of the committee, that circuits being once established, the people have a right to the judge, and the judge ought to serve out his term in the circuit- but inasmuch as we have amended the prior article, it strikes me in this case there should be a proviso to) the amendment of the gentleman from Clark [Mr. Schol. field], to this effect: 4, O MoH 11, 18w. DEBATES AD PROCEEDINGS. 1133 localities should be left out of that instru ment, and I find, sir, that I am not alone i n thi s opinion. The question naturally arises, whether the people of Cook county and the city of Chicago really have asked us to make a Constitution for them separate and apart from the Constitution of the State of Illi nois. I think it is very questionable whether even they have asked us to do this thing for them. We recollect a few mornings ago, the gentleman from Cook [Mr. Cameron], presented a petition signed by honorable gentlemen from that county, containing such names as Scates, Doolittle, Wilson, and others, asking that the courts in Cook county should be uniform with those throughout the State at large. Now, sir, I ask whether that ought not to cause us to pause at this time and con sider whether we are not transcending our powers, transcending what we have been called upon to do in this Conven tion. I find, also, sir, in the Chicago Times, an article which says they do not ask or desire any such thing. The Times says: "The courts and practice in Cook county should be the same as the courts and practlce in other counties." I do not raise the question at this time because I have any hostility or animosity whatever, against the county of Cook or the city of Chicago (for on the contrary, I consider the interests of my constitu ents and my own are identified largely with the city of Chicago), but as a question of propriety, whether the county of Cook should have a separate or dis tinct court from other portions of the State. If this question is to be met at all, I in sist that now is the time and this is the place to meet it before we pass upon this section-whether we are to make two Constitutions or only one. Mr. PARKS. Mr. Chairman: I stated yesterday in the argument on this question before the committee to strike out the ninety thousand restriction in this judiciary article, that I was in favor of Cook county having anything that was right. So I was and so I am still. Now, against the protest of a good many of us that thing was fastened upon us, and conspicuous in the action were some Cook county gentlemen, who thought it such an exceedingly good t thing, they did not want to limit it to one hundred thousand. Some of them wanted to make it one hundred and fifty thousand. If this provision -is so exceedingly good, sir, for the balance of the State —why not also for Cook county? I am not able to understand why, when we in the "country," as it is called, are obliged to have a hundred thousand people in order to have a judge, while Cook county must have a judge fbr every fifty thousand. We have heard the argument, in favor of thatdoctrine. The people in the country do not believe it. The nc ft is, I do not believe it myself. I do not believe in a law for one part of Illinois, and another for Cook county. b Sangamon and Alexander and ail other counties have just as much'right as Cook county, in this State-and further, Mr. Chairman, I find the people of Cook county are not agreed about this thing themselves. They do not seem to want the system contained in this article. If one hundred thousand people are here re Provided, That the circuits may be equal ized or changed at the first session of the Gen eral Assembly, after the adoption of this Constitution. That will enable us to carry out the amendment to the twelfth section of the article, by which we have provided tha.t the circuit judges may not necessarily hold out their full time, but shall hold their terms until otherwise provided by law-for the reasons already stated. I therefore, move this amendment to the amendment. With this amend m ent, the eection will be consistent with the pre ceding section, as amended. The Clerk read the amendment offered by Mr. Underwood, as follows: Provided, That the circuits may be equal ized or changed at the first session of the Gen eral Assembly after the adoption of this Constitution. Mr. SCHOLFIELD. Mr. Chairman: I accept the amendment. Mr. UNDERWOOD. These words ad ded to the amendment of the gentleman from Clark [Mr. Scholfield], will make it harmonize with the prior section. ["1 Question," "question."] The CHAIRMAN. The question is on the adoption of the amendment proposed by the gentleman from Clark [Mr. Schol field], as amended, as follows: Strike out all after the word "thereof" in the fourth -line to "United States" in the seventh line, and insert the following: The judicial divisions and judicial circuits shall be formed of contiguous counties in as nearly a compact form as circumstances will permit. New circuits may be formed, and the boundaries of circuits and divisions changed by the General Assembly, at its session next preceding the election of the judges of the circuits or divisions sought to be changed, but at no other time: Provided, That the circuits may be equalized or changed at the first session of the General Assembly after the adoption of this Constitution. The creation, alteration or change of any judicial division or judicial circuit shall not affect the tenure of office of any judge. The amendment offered by Mr. Scholfield, as amended, was agreed to. Mr. SEDGWICK. I move to amend the section by striking out the words "exclusive of the county of Cook." I suppose, Mr. Chairman, we might as well settle the question at this time as any other, whether it is the duty of this Convention to make two Constitutions, one for the State of Illinois, and the other for the county of Cook. Have some members mistaken for what the people have called this Convention together? In order to, remind gentlemen of what the people considered to be the duty of this Convention, I will call their attention to a few lines of the act providing for the calling of this Convention. I find this in section first: Be it enacted by the people of the State of Illinois, represented irn the General As~semby, That a Convention to alter, amend or revise the Constitution of the State of Illinois, is here- by called to meet at the State house in the city of Springfield, on1 the second Monday of December, in the year of our Lord one thoul6and eight hundred and sixty-nine, etc. It does not evren mention Cook county. N~ow, I confess, for one, that the question for us to settle first, is whether we shall be able to make a Constitution for thei State of Illinois, that will be acceptable! to the people, before we undertake to make a Constitution for Cook county. It Keener to me there is great impropriety in mentioning any county or any city in the State in the Constitution. It seems to me that it is much better that the nametor 284: quired to make a j udicial circuit, why not in Cook cou nt y? I re peat i t agai n a nd again, I do not understand it. I have heard the a rgum ent and I d o n ot believe it. The r e is noth ing in it. Now, I do not want to make a speech about this thing, but I have an article here in the Chicago Times which is to the point, and which I will have the clerk read. I have marked the article. It is from,he Times of yesterday. The Clerk read from the Chicago Times, of the tenth instant, as follows: One of the faults of the judiciary system in the present Constitution is, that it permits courts of different jurisdiction and practice to be established. One of the faults of the ar ticle in relation to the judiciary before the Ccnstitutional Convention is, that it does not cure th:s evil. One of the patent faults of the Convention is, that it seems to be framing fundamental rules for the benefit of certain persons or classes of persons. An instance is to be found in the provision for two courts of concurrent jurisdiction in Cook county. One reason assigned is, that a part of the bar desire such two courts, and another that the present judges are opposed to associating with each other in the same court. Does it occur to the delegates that the per sonal wishes of the judges who happen to be on the bench, and of the lawyers that happen to practice before them, are of the smallest consequence? The Constitution ought to be made for the people to be governed by it; not only those now living, but for all who will live under it. Let the members of the Convention rise to the high duty imposed upon them. We want just rules, uniform and equal in their operation. The courts and practice in Cook county ought to be like the courts and practice in other counties; the only demand is for more judges to transact the larger amount of business. One of the delegates was not elected to represent himself and his law partner, and another was not sent to Springfield to pro tect his friend on the bench; they were cho sen to represent the interests of their constit uents; and if they fail to do so, the popu lar indignation will sweep away such men and their work. Mr. CUNI 4INGS. -r. Chairman: As to striking out the words "Cook county," I have no desire to change the judicial system, or to change the system of courts in Cook county; but I consider those words unnecessary in this section, and hope they may be stricken out. Should we adopt the report of the Judiciary Committee, without this amendment, it would give Cook county the system, I believe, which she now enjoys, and fasten it upon her for all time or as long as the new Constitution mlay endure. There is no reason why we should forever exclude her from having a change in her judicial system, when her people demand it. If she should desire at some day to be returned into the Union, this section would prevent her froml coming back. [Laughter.] I hope the motion to strike out Cook county will prevail. It will not prevent this Convention from adopting all the provisions that apply to Cook county; but once adopted, it will prevent her from changing her system if the people desire it. Much has been said about "fexibility." This would remove a little of the iron —of the stringency. If we adopt this system, it would fasten a certain system on themn as long as this Constitution shall last. I think it would be better for Cook county that she should not have a system fastened on her which she could not charge, and better for the State to have the power over Cook county, to change her judiciary when the Stat~ sees fit. MARON 115 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1133 114CNTTTOA CNETO RDY For instance, in the thirtieth section it is provided that two additional judges shall be elected when this Constitution is to be voted upon, etc.; but I will not now discuss these sections. I only desire to talk a moment. I do, however, desire to call the attention of the committee to the action of Cook county, through her board of supervisors-an act directly reflecting upon the action of the supreme court of this State, in respect to the fine which, was recently inflicted by that court upon the late county clerk of Cook county for contempt. I see by papers received a day or two ago, that the board of supervisors of Cook county have remitted to Mr. Salomon this fine By official action they have repaid to him the fine of one thou sand dollars inflicted upon him. And not only that, but in addition, they have refunded to him all the costs and attorney fees, expended by him in defending himself in that matter. The board of supervisors, acting in their official capacity, have done this, and I see by the papers received last night, that a card has been addressed to this man (who has been ad judged guilty of this contempt, which ought to be regarded as a crime), by nearly one thousand leading firms and business men of Chicago, indorsing and sustaining his action in the attempt, on the part of Cook county, to defraud the State of Illinois out of about one hundred and thirty-seven thousand dollars! Until they purge themselves of these actions on their part, they are not entitled, in this representative body of the State or Illinois, to any consideration at all. Until they show to the people of the State that they deplore these actions of the past, and give proper promises that they will not in the future attempt to set aside the laws, and actions of the supreme tribunals of our State, they ought to receive no favors at our hands. To do otherwise, would be an indorsement of their conduct by this Convention. I trust, sir, that this motion will be adopted now, and at the proper time, when we come to act upon the section relating to Cook county, they can be more fully dwelt upon. The CHAIRMAN. The question is upon the motion of the gentleman from DeKalb [Mr. Sedgwick] to strike out the words "exclusive of Cook county." A division was ordered. o The committee divided, when, there being twenty-five in the affirmative and nineteen in the negative, the motion was agreed to. Mr. WELLS. Mr. Chairman: I offer Ithe following as a substitute to the whole section. The Clerk read the substitute offered by Mr. Wells, as follows: The State shall be divided into judicial circuits, in each of which one circuit judge shall be elected by the qualified electors thereof, who shall hold his office for the term of sixg years, and until his successor shall be commissioned and qualified. Mr. SKINNER. Mr. Chairman: If gentlemen desire to tear things to pieces, without any sort of reference to conse quences; if they are here as mere destroy ers, mere fault finders, mere grumblers, if they are here as bears merely, let them so proclaim themselves, and then let us take a vote upon an immediate recess t that reason may return and have its accustomed sway. Mr. HAINES, of La ke. Mr. Chairman: There seems to me to be great force in the remarks of the gentleman from Fulton [Mr. Cummings]. This Constitution should be as general as possible in its terms. We ought to adopt a policy of restricting the legislative power, of delegating sufficient authority to other departments, and of declaring general principles. It is bad enough to put in all the special -legislation we have, without legislating for localities when it is not necessary. Of course the printing of these words referred to does not cost much; but they only confuse in case of construction. Legislators cannot exercise too much care, in framing laws, to have them easy of construction, avoiding a multiplicity of words and special provisions. There is no necessity for excepting Cook county, at the place mentioned. But if it is desired to institute a class of courts for Cook county alone, let it be in a special article or separate division of an article, for we may desire at some time to amend this Constitution. Then it will be easier found and understood, and can be more conveniently amended, saving running through the entire instrument to make these corrections. We do that in drawing a contract —make it concise and Compact. If we do that as lawyers, why not as law-makers? While this seems to be of no consequence now, for the purpose of harmony in this instrument, let us not put in words where they are not necessary. I think these words should be stricken out as of no use. Lawers say in constructing contracts, words that are not necessary to give effect to an instrument, may not only be omitted, but should not be inserted, and why not omit these words'! Mr. ]McDOWELL. Mr. Chairman: I hope this motion will prevail. These words should be stricken out, and not only here, but throughout this article, anything relating to special courts for Cook county, or anything differing in any way from the system of courts we have established, or may establish throughout the State, should be stricken out. It should be done for the reason, first, that the system should be uniform throughot the entire State. And it shoued be done, in the second place, in view of official action which has lately taken p~lace in the county of Cook on the part of leading officials, and leading citizens there. We ought not to tolerate or hardly to recognize anything that might in any way give extraordinary rights and privileges to that county. It has been stated by gentlemen in all parts of the hall, that the system we adopt should be uniform throughout the State. That I believe has been the gen eral desire, as shown by the votes of the committee. I think sir, that while it is perhaps correct that Cook county requires more courts, especially for the transac-tion of criminal business, than other counties, we should yet establish a system uniform in. its character throughout the State, and apply that system to Cook county. If she needs mlore judges let her have them. Let her have all the facili. ties that the people need for carrying out the ends of justice. But I am op posed entirely to the system that her del egates have blocked out, for various rea sons, which are shown in Sthe section of this article relative to Coo~ county. CONSTITUTIONAL CON'VENTION FP.ID.&Y, 1134: We are acting unquestioi3ably with greathaste, and-withan abseince of deliberation. It is apparent.- There is no occasion to debate it. It is apparent that amendments are proposed here without any sort of COD sideration as to their effect, and that votes are taken without thinking of the results that are to follow-a small number only of the committee voting. Results are produced that the committee, did they apprehend or think a moment, would not permit. Now let us illustrate-by the striking out of'Icxcept Cook county." The time for considering that is when the Cook county portion of the article is under consideration. There is the substance; here is the mere form. The form can be easily changed. If there is an y sort of difference in the courts in the large cities of the State, and in the rural districts, we must gq -back and correct the mere matter of form. The gentleman from Peoria [Mr. Wells] rises, and presents this proposition; he rises and presents the other proposition and then another. With due respect to my friend, I think he does not sufficiently deliberate iipon what he is attempting to do. The effect of his procedure is to tear down, destroy, and perpetuate debate resulting in no sort of good, and I fear the gentleman intends no good. The CHAIRMAN. The'gentleman from Adams [Mr. Skinner], must be careful and not transgress parlia mentary rules. Mr. SKINNER. I beg pardon, Mr. Chairman. I take that all back. I simply throw it out as a gentle hint to the committee. The people expect us to work. That they do not look with any favor upon this triflidg, is apparent.. I hope members will endeavor to resume their oriain-al status of well directed investigation. Mr. WELLS. Mr. Chairman: I rise with great embarrassment. The gentleman said (and I think the remark was hasty for he withdrew it; I am glad that he withdrew it), that I offered these amendments without- any good intent. I am thankful that he withdrew the expres. sion, because I assert that there never was a resolution offered with better intent: there never was a man who made a resolution to go to heave with better intent than offered this a MoH 11, 1870. DEBATES AM) PROOEEDIGS. 1135 thing, without anything further being said on the subject. Mr. BROMWELL. Mr. Chairman: I hope the substitute of the gentleman from Peoria [Mr. Wells] wilt not be adopted. The only result will be to give the creation of the circuits of the State into the hands of the Legislature, with out any restriction whatever, while the judges will be put upon a common sala ry, making it a continual inducement to create new circuits, because every new circuit created will relieve somebody fromn the labor he was elected to perform. The people have lived under this Con stitution, it is true, twenty-one years, but I do not think it istrue, as the gentleman from Peoria [Mr. Wells] thinks, that they love this particular part of it. They lived under this Constitution until they found it absolutely necessary to elect a Convention to change it, and this is one of the very things upon which they sought and demanded a change. If we adopt the old Constitution upon this subject, as suggested by the gentleman from Peoria [Mr. Wells], we just give into the hands of the Legislature a subject which will, at all times, be fruitful of corruption, and if changed, counties will not know one year what cilcuit they will be in the next year, and it will be just as it has been heretofore. In my region of the State, in the last twelve years, I do not think one county has remained in the same circuit exceeding two years at a time. One circuit, which at one time had eight or ten counties, at another time was actually reduced to three very small ones, and at another time it had six. Our circuit has been changed at every session of the Legislature. In the first place, the members of the bar occasionally, for some reason, get dissatisfied with the judge temporariy, post off to the Legislature, press their member in the house or senate, to get them cut off from their circuit and put into anotheror perhaps do all this because they desire a change in the time of holding their court. Mr. CUMMINGS. Mr. Chairman: Does the section now under consideration give the same power to the Legislature? Mr. BROMWELL. Mr. Chairman: I think not. Once in six years, I think, is the provision. As it now stands, they can make these changes at no other time. Besides, the sectioni now embraces this provision-that there shall be no more circuits in the State than can be made with one hundred thousand inhabitants to each circuit. This prevents a multitude of circuits, while it leaves the Legislature to form or change circuits accordi ng to population and business, once in six years. But the substitute leaves it in the same condition as it has been making all the circuits subject to change, and holding out an inducement to the Legislature to make new circuits every year. Mr. HAINES, of Lake. Mr. Chairman: The remarks of the gentleman from Jo Daviess [Mr. Cary], call for some explanation upon the part of members to whom he refers. There is no intention by the mover of the substitute, as I understand it, to prevent the Legislature from making an arrangement for the courts of Cook county. The gentleman from Peoria [Mr. Wells], wishesto follow the present Constitution in that respect. oAs the Constitution now is, there is pro my work. I have not advanced this prop osition, have not said this is the best thing that could be done. I disclaim any thing of the kind. It is the Constitution that we live under. Mr. WALL. Does not the gentleman's article propose to introduce some changes in the present Constitution? Mr. WELLS. It strikes out " nine." The old Constitution has " nine," and as many more as the Legislature sees fit to create. Mr. WALL. Does it introduce any other changes? Mr. WELLS. No. Mr. WALL. In other sections? Mr. WELLS. Other sections clearly indicated in the proposition, introduce changes to the extent of nine lines. If there be any censure to be passed on any gentleman for introducing this heinous proposition, I am here ready to bear the brunt; but repeat that the propositions I have introduced as mine, are clearly indicated. They are in substance the same as this Committee of the Whole has passed upon and adopted. They are essential. Those parts of the Constitution of 1848 have never been questioned, to my knowledge. In presenting them, I only ask its careful consideration. We seem to be in a snarl. It seems that we are out of the king's highway, and that there is no way in which we may walk in safety and convenience. I simply ask gentlemen to recur to the beaten path that is known and acknowledged, and satisfactory to the whole people. If this proposition merits censure, I am ready to take it. If the proposition deserves the censure of this body, I shall bow to it; but I do assert and reiterate that I ask a consideration of this proposition. There is nothing procrustean about it. It will cut off nobody's legs. It will adapt the Constitution to the largest and smallest counties. Mr. CARY. Mr. Chairman: I would like to hear the substitute for section thirteen read. The Clerk read the substitute offered by Mr. Wells, as follows: The State shall be divided into judicial circuits, in each of which one circuit judge shall be elected by the qualified electors thereof, who shall hold his office for the term of six years, and until his successor shall be comamissioned and qualified. 1dr. (CARY, Mr. Chairman: I understand that the provision in reference to the circuit courts, superior courts, supreme court, and other courts of Chicago, are to be stricken out, or at least, that some gentlemen desire to do so, and that the pending substitute may be considered in connection with this design. I merely wish to call the attention of the committee to one fact. tEvcrv member of this committee knows th~at the business of Cook county cannot be done by one judge. It is the design to divide Cook county up into as many circuits as she requires circuit judges, and far each little district to elect one judge. If that is the object, it seems to me a very injudicious one. Perhaps I may be mistaken I may be wrong about it. It may the best system that can be concocted for the State of Illinois, but it seenas to me that the mere suggestion of dividing any county, requiring more than one judge, into as many districts as there may be judges required to do the business of t~ht county, is enough to condemn the whole DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS., MARCH 11) 1870. 1135 vision made for Cook county especially. Cook county is excepted in the schedulb, and provision is made for the system of courts they uow have. This proposition to strike out the words in,this section relating to Cook county, iig, I think, proper. There is no necessity for them here. It has been the policy of the Committee on the Judiciary to devote a separate section to the courts of Cook county. The present Constitution includes the same in the schedule. There is no objection to including the words in a particular article instead of -placidg them in the schedule; but there is objection, every time the subject occurs in other articlps, to except the county of Cook. If Cook county wants anything, let us put it in one place, so that we can all understand what it is. Therefore,' I thi,nk the gentleman from Adams [Mr. Skii'aner] went a great way in casting reflections upon me for, being in favor of striking out the exception in this article. I urged the strikidg out because'I thought the exception here unnecessary. And, further, I have myself settled upon a policy I shall pursue, and I intend to pursue it from this time forward. The people have sent us here to revise the organic law in Fome respects, andl think they do not wish to go beyond that. My policy will be,to adhere to the wishes oi the -people.. They want the supreme court reorganized, so as to give more working force in that court. They wish the judges of the supreme court increased, and they wish the judges of both the supreme and circuit courts to get bbtter pay, to a reasonable extent. There has been no complaint of the judicial system, except in respect to,the supreme court. The circuits are well enough as they are, in theirorganizati0ji. There is complaint in the citiof Chicago, and something is necessa to be done for that locality, but not in this article.' The people have called for no chadge except in the points I have mentioned. And as to the pro'position of the geni lenaan from Peoria [Mr. Wells], to adhere to the Constitution as it is, I shall'.feel bound to support it, except in regard to the, points I have mentioned. Mr. ALLEN I of Alexander. Mr. Chairman: I hope the substitute offered by the r'll p136 COSTITUTIOAL OOYENTIO FRIDAY, Mr. CHURCH. Mr. Chairman: I should be reluctant to believe that the , complaints of the people in regard to the t judiciary article, related to nothing more than its strict, economical features. I 1 think it has been stated here that the complaints as to the operation of the I judiciary article are only to the effect that salaries are not high enough; in other s words, it is contended that the people ) have sent us here merely to vote away their money, pay higher salaries to judges, t and that we are not expected to recom mend any economical checks at all. Now, my recollection is that there is no ) one feature of the present judiciary sys tem of the State that has received such r universal condemnation, and required so - universal a correction, as this inequality of circuits throughout the State; and, sir, when we come together and make a judiciarv article that will leave that same W system of circuits scattered over the [ State, we throw out an invitation to the Legislature to still increase the number I of those small circuits; and if we pre - sent with that a tripling of the salaries, why sir, it seems to me that we present but little that can commend itself to the people for adoption. Now, sir, it is conceded by all that the constitutional compensation of the judges of the State has been, under the late in; flation of the currency, inadequate for the services required of those officials. But, sir, it has also been well known that in order to partially meet the objection, the Legislature have been appealed to from time to time, heretofore, to reduce those circuits, and that they have been reduced until in many of them there is not one fourth or one-fifth of the time of the judges employed in holding court. While it may be that in other circuits, from reluctance to part with the services of judges, or from some other cause, they have refused to consent to have their cir cuits cut down; yet, as a general thing, I be)ieve it is known that there are too many small circuits, and that there are more circuits in the State than are now required to transact the business. Shall we then, sir, present a judiciary article to the people of this State, leaving the thirty circuit judges in office, merely enlarging their salaries, to a great extent, and leaving it to the Legislature in the futu re to create just as manyof these cir cuits as there may be persons wanting to get the salaries; or shall we not also pre sent an economical feature? In order that there may be a liberal compensation for the judges, let us also provide that the judges —a limited number of them-re ceiving this liberal compensation, shall do the business of the State; and that no more of them shall be created than shall be found necessary to transact the business of the State, which is proposed to be done by this section thirteen, either by creating a minimum requisite of popula tion of ninety thousand, as presented by forther srvies,we illhav acom-the committee, or an average number ofbetedsr,adIcnsen veycn pushed much. ~~~~one hundred thousand, as has been adopt- sdrbeojcint t orti h u I hpe hi comiteewil no sy teyed by the Committee of the Whole. That pro or,tog neeyapc Canno mak anyprogess,and eaveone of these things should be done, is un- crutcuto hcg,b ae h thi sujec whre heyfoud ileaingquestionably expectod now by the peo- pol aegonacsoe oi the udiiar undr te cntro oftheple, and, sir, although I do not question Terrcrsaei htnm.I a Legilatre,as ereofor. Wileexpri-that the substitute offered by the gentle- enacuti hc oto hjdca encehas emostraed tat e canotman from Peoria [Lir. Wells] is offeredbuiesoChcghabentasce with the very best motives, it remits us back to the old objectionable system. Besides that, sir, it suggests a literal impossibility. Let that be in this Consti — i 1136 CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION FRIDALY large or small circuits, as may be asked by any influence of petty spite, or partisan malice, or self interest? We did hope, sir, toelevate the judiciary; to place it above and beyond these influences which have heretofore impaired its influence and detracted from its dignity. This committee declared by a decided vote on yesterday, that this State'should be divided into judicial circuits upon a basis of one hundred thousand population te each; that there should not be absolute equal;ty in the population of each, but that one hundred thousand should be the basis. But to-day, the purpose seems to be to undo that which was well done as far as it went, and put the whole judiciary again under the control of the Legislature. The reason to-day assigned, is that we are "in a snarl." It may be that the honorable gentleman from Peoria [Mr. Wells] feels himself to be "in a snarl," and does not see his way clear. I rather think that is so, and that he properly appreciates himself; but would it not be well for him to limit the difficulty to himself, and those he knows to be similarly situated? I do not believe that gentlemen generally acknowledge that they are "in a snarl," and see no way out; nor do I think we desire to be relieved in the way that gentleman indicates, by taking the old Constitution, so far as the judiciary article is concerned. We came here to reform the judiciary article, and have, as I hope and believe, made very commendable progress. The Judiciary Committee have passed this article. For themselves, they claim no more wisdom than is possessed by an equal number of the members of this committee; but they claim to have acted in good faith, and to have addressed themselves industriously to their task. Mr. GOODHUE. Will the gentleman state With what unanimity this thirteenth section was adopted by the Judiciary Committee? ]Mr. ALLEN, of Alexander. Mr. Chairman: I am not prepared to state, and if I had positive knowledge and re collection, I do not know that it would be proper to state it here. The committee made this report. The chairman had authority to submit it. It is the report of the committee, and that, I think, should satisfy the gentleman. I am unwilling to acknowledge that this Committee of the Whole is at sea. A line of policy has been adopted for the elevation of the judiciary, to make it independent of the Legislature, as all the departments of the government should be mutually independent of each other. I think we are getting along smoothly enough —"in no snarl." If we reorganize the circuit courts, placing them beyond legislative control, giving them something like equaltty of population in. circuits, and equality of labor, with decent pay for their services, we will have accomn lplished much. I hope this committee will not say they cannot make any progress, and leave this subject where they found it-leaving the judiciary under the control of the Legislature, as heretofore. While experi ence has demonstrated that-wee cannot please all the members on this floor, I shall be satisfied if- we meet the expecta tions of the, people, m present them wise reforms. tution, and it must be violated-either obviated in some other parts of the Constitution,.or violated because it is impracticable in some'portions of the State, Sir, is it not well known that. there is a county in the State that has but one court-house-but one place of holding courts, and yet in which, under the substitute of the gentleman from Peoria [Mr. Wells], there must be six or seven circuits? The substitute now proposed, requires the State to be divided into circuits, in each of which there shall be one judge. Now, suppose that that is to be done, in connection with the amendment to the thirteenth section, as now agreed upon by the Committee of the Whole, how would it stand? That there can be no circuit in the State containing more than one judge! Therefore, if more than one judge is required in the county of Cook, it must be by creating different circuits within the county of Cook. Then we would have the strange anomaly there, of a circuit with a judge elected in the circuit, transacting all its business in some other circuit, or else we necessitate the expense of building a court-house in every circuit thus created. Now, sir, I regard this movement of this morning, as a blow struck at the separate judicial provisions in the report for the city of Chicago. While I may not say that I should favor all the details of the judiciary article, as reported by the committee, so far as it relates to the city of Chicago, I do say, and I believe it cannot be successfully controverted, that no general judicial system of this State can be created but what will discriminate either for or against Chicago; that there must be some section in this article dif ferent for Chicago than for the other counties of the State, for the reason that they have but one place of holding courts. That place is ample for all the judicial powers and business that will be required v to be exercised in that county and city; and we must, therefore, either create a diversity of courts having the same terri torial jurisdiction, or we must create a circuit there, with a larger number of judges, exercising jurisdiction in the same territory, which necessity does not exist in other portions of the State, because there is not now, and probably never will be, another county of the State that will possess a larger population, or a larger demand for judicial business, than can be exercised in one circuit and by one judge; judicial business, I mean, of the character that must necessarily go into a court of general superior jurisdiction. Now, whether the judicial power in Chicago shall be exercised byr six circuit judges, or by three or four circuit judges and three superior judges, is to us of no earthly consideration. I confess that mv choice would have directed the creation of as mans circuit judges in that judicial circuit as t;he necessities of the business require. Neverthteless, it seems to me to be the desire, and I can see no very con siderable objection to it, to retain the su perior court, though in every aspect a circuit court of Chicago, by name. The people have grown accustomed to it. Their records are in that name. It has been a court in which most of the judicial business of Chicago has been transacted for a great number of years [Here the hammer fell.] Mr. PARES. Mr. Cjhairmlan: I agree with my friend from.lexander [Mr. A1 LARCH 11, 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1137 t The Clerk read the amendment, offered u by Mr. Browning, as follows: Strike out all after the word "law," in the fifth line, and insert: "But the whole number L of judges to be elected in such enlarged cir. cuits shall never exceed the proportion of one for every one hundred thousand inhabitants in the State."1 Mr. SKINNER. In substance they are the same. I propose the amendment as modified in the language just presented; the substance being the same. The CHAIRMAN. The question is on the amendment proposed by the gentle man from Adams [Mr. Skinner]. Mr. HAY. Mr. Chairman. I desire to explain the character of this section. It is a provision alternative to the one em bodied in section thirteen, and must be so understood by the committee. Section thirteen provides for the forma tion of single circuits and the election of judges in each. A great many resolutions were introduced in the early part of the sitting (of the Convention, looking to the incorporation of a somewhat different system in the manner of electing our cir cuit judges, and in the manner of their holding their courts; the same system which has found so much favor wherever it has been introduced in other States of the Union. The provision made in sec tion fifteen embraces the idea suggested by those resolutions. I would state further that the provision as here framed, is substantially the same as presented bv one of the most valuable members of the Judiciary Committee, who, through the dispensation of Provi dence, has been unable to meet with us, most of the time of the session. I refer to the gentleman from Macon [Mr. Emmer son], who was more in earnest in regard to the incorporation of this provision into cur judiciary system than in regard to any other matter that came before the Convention. His large experience as a j udge and a lawyer, had satisfied him that it would be a valuable provision in the judiciary system of our State, and it was amongst the last things upon his mind before he, by sickness. was compelled to leave the Convention. At the last sitting of the Judiciary Committee that he was able to attend, whilst unable to make a speech before the committee, in earnest conversation with those members he had occasion to talk to, he urged the committee to duly consider his proposition, and if it met with their approbation to incorporate it in the article. The committee carne to the conclusion, after mature reflection, that it would make a valuable improvement upon our judiciary systemn. We have framed this section fifteen, not to go into immediate effect, blat leaving it to the Legislature —as it might meet with some opposition from those who have not heretofore been accustomed to it —to adopt the provision if they should think proper hereafter. The committee will see that it does not enlarge the number of circuit judges} that it provides no additional offices, but only provides for a mo~!e of s ervice different from that heretofore adopted in the judiciary system of the State; and instead of electing, by single districts, one judge for each district, provides for an election of three or four, by general ticket, for an enlarged district. Also that, when a territory is thus formed, and the judges elected in the manner indicated, the whole business of such a district shall be done proportiqnately~ by judicial circuits, not more than one circuit for every one hundred thousand inhabitants of this State, and for each of which one judge shall be elected by the electors thereof. The judicial divisions and judicial circuits shall be formed of contiguous counties in as nearly a compact form as circumstances will permit. New circuits may be formed, and the boundaries of circuits and divisions changed by the General Assembly, at its session next preceding the election of the judges of the circuits or divisions sought to be changed, but at no other time: Provided, that the circuits may be equalized or changed at the first session of the General Assembly after the adoption of this Constitution. The creation, alteration or change of any judicial division or judicial circuit shall not affect the tenure of office of any judge. ["Question," "question."] The CHAIRMAN. The question is to strike out section thirteen, as amended, and insert in lieu thereof the words proposed by the gentleman from DeKalb [Mr. Sedgwick]. The amendment was not agreed to. The CHAIRNAN. The question is on the adoption of section thirteen, as amended. A division was ordered. The committee divided, when there being forty-eight in the affirmative and ten in the negative, section thirteen, as amended, was agreed to. The CHAIRMAN. The next section is section fifteen. JUDICIAL CIRCUITS. The Clerk read section fifteen, as follows: SEC. 15. The General Assembly may divide the State into judicial circuits, OZ greater population and territory, and provide for the election therein, severally, by the electors thereof by general ticket, of three or more judges, who shall, respectively, hold the circuit courts in the circuit for which they shall be elected, in such manner as may be provided by law; but no such judicial circuit shall be created with less than ninety thousand population for each judge elected therein. Mr. SPRINGER. Mr. Chairman: I believe I had a motion before this com-r mittee to strike out this section. The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman from Adams [Mr. Skinner] had the floor. Mr. HAY. Mr. Chairman: The friends of the section have a right to amend before a motion to strike out. The CHAIRMAN. When the motion is to strike out the section without insertin g, the adoption of the motion is equivalent to the rejection of the section; the rejection of the motion is equivalent to the adoption of the section. When there is a motion to strike out and insert other words, the section still stands, if that motion be not adopted. It is now in order to move to strike out and insert, which motion would take precedence of the proposition of the gentleman from Madison [Mr. Springer]. It is also in order to mnove to further amend the section, and that motion would take precedence of both the other motions. Mr. SKINNER. Mr. Chairman: I will take the liberty of offering an amendment handed me by the gentleman from Sangamon [Mr. Hay], that will come in in place of the last clause of the section. Strike out the last clause and insert the following: But no greater number of judges shall be elected in the aggregate of such judicial circuits than the aggregate number provided for by section thirteen of this article. Mr. BROWNING. I would suggest whether this would not be a better form. len] that we are no t in a snarl here, and th at we a re not going to get in a snarl. W e are all pleasant all calm and serene with temper smooth as oil, but I do not agree with him in his opinion about the amendment of the gentlemen from Peoria [Mr. Wells]. I am in favor of that amendment,, sir. I am in favor of it, be cause it enables us to get rid of the re striction of 100,000. I think the adop tion of that restriction was very unfortu nate, that we had better get rid of it, and that we must and will get rid of it before the final adjournment of this Conven tion. And, inasmuch as the amendment of my friend from Peoria [Mr. Wells] ena bles us to do that now, I am decidedly in favor of it, and hope it will prevail. Mr. WELLS. Mr. Chairman: It has been suggested, and I ask leave that the substitute may be amended by saying, "one or more circuit judges in each cir cuit." I throw that out, and, if the gen tlemen want to make the amendment, they can do so. ~ The CHAIRMAN. Do I understand the gentleman from Peoria [Mr. Wells] as moving his amendment? Mr. WELLS. No, sir. I only say that it can be done if it is so desired. The CHAIIRMAN. The question is upon striking out section thirteen, as amended, and inserting in lieu therof, the amendment proposed by the gentle man from Peoria [Mr. Wells]., The Clerk read the amendment offered by Mr. Wells, as follows: The State shall be divided into judicial circuits, in each of which one circuit judge shall be elected by the qualified electors thereof, who shall hold his office for the term of six years, and until his successor shall be commissioned and qualified. Mr. BROMWELL. Mr. Chairmain: I understood that the gentleman from Peoria [Mr. Wells] had modified his substitute. The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman has not made any motion to modify the amendment. A division was ordered. The committee divided, when, there being fourteen in the affirmative and thirty-nine in the negative, the amendment was not agreed to. The CHAIRMAN. The question now recurs upon the adoption of section thirteen, as amended. Mr. SEDGWICK. Mr. Chairman: Inow propose to offer my amendment} that I gave notice of yesterday. The Clerk read the substitute offered by Ml. Sedgwick, as follows: The General Assemblyr shall re-district the judicial circuits of this State, before the expiration of the terms of office of the present judges of the circuit courts, forming not less than twenty, nor more than twenty-five districts- and in each district one judge shall be elected by the electors thereof. The judicial divisions and j udicial circuits shall be formed of contiguous counties} in as nearly compact form as the population necessary for the same will permit, and when formed shall each contain at least seventy-five thousand inhabitants, and shall not be reduced in size, unless the judge therein is required to hold court more than eight months in each year, for at least two successive years. The CHAIRMAN. The Clerk will read the original section, as amended. The Clerk read section thirteen, as amended, as follows: SE~C. 13. The State shall, before the expiration of the terms of officee of the present judges of the circuit courts, be divided'!~o i i R"CH 11) 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS., 1137 1138 CONTITUTIOAL COYENT~O FRIDAY, ferior appellate courts, they may be held by the judges thus constituted in their districts, meeting either at some one point to hear cases in bane, or perambulate the whole district, and sitting on the records in the different counties composing the district, and rehearing the causes just where they were before adjudged. It was so framed as to adapt itself to that provision. But either this or the other part of this system may be adopted, and it will act whether that system of appellate courts be provided by the Legislature or not. The Legislature may not deem it expediient, or may not adopt that provision, and yet retain this section with all the benefit that it is supposed may be derived from that system. We can have three or four judges elected in a given district, and obtain all the advantages from that mode of election, requiring them to interchange in the disposition of business in that circuit, and yet not necessarily adopt the other part, constituting them an appellate court. I think that would be a very valuable addition to our judicial system. The committee did not think proper to make it obligatory on the Legislature to adopt the inferior appellate courts, nor have they made the provisions of this section obligatory. As there are other gentlemen heie well posted as to the operation of this system in other States, I hope to hear from them on the subject. If this section shall commend itself to the Committee of the Whole as much as it did to the Judiciary Committee, I hope we will adopt it unanimously. Mr. WHEATON. Mr. Chairman: In discussing the question involved in section eleven, I stated to the committee that at an earlier part of the session of this Convention I had introduced a resolution, as follows: hResolved, That the State shall be divided into nine judicial circuits, of which the county of Cook shall be one, the others to be bounded by county lines, and to be compact and equal in population, as near as may be. There shall be four circuit judges in each circuit, who shall hold their offices for the term of years, and until their successors shall be commissioned and qualified. And the judges of each circuit shall sit in bane once a year in each county in their respective circuits, to determine law questions arising in their respective circuits. Appeals and writs of error may be taken from the decisions of any such circuit judges, sitting in banc in each county, to the supreme court, to be taken in such manner as the Legislature may hereafter provide. The Judiciary Committee, I am thankful to state, have adopted the principle embodied in that resolution, by dividing it into two separate sections, and the adoption of section fifteen is absolutely necessary to perfect the system already adopted by this committee in section eleven. a In section eleven we have provided that appellate courts may be created by the Legislature, of circuit judges, to hold that court in the respective counties in such a manner as may be regulated by the General Assembly, providing, however, that no judge shall sit in review upon a case decided by him. Now, it seems to me absolutely necessary, in order to carry out the system, to provide that three or s more circuits may be thrown together, or the circuits enlarged, so that three or more judges may be elected in the circuits, to hold these appellate courts; and, as I understand the report of the Judiciary Com mittee, the object of section thirteen is to provide that these circuit judges, three or more. may hold this appellate court so that the appellate c ou rt shall not be a distinct and separate court from the circuit c ourt, but that the th ree or more judges created in the re s pe ctive circuits under this provision, shall compose this appellate court, so that it shall be held in the county where the record of the case is, and thus save the immense expense that is now caused, to poor men as well as rich, in taking a case to the supreme court under the present system. This is nothing more or less than the New York system, and the resolution which I introduced, and which I have just read-I beg pardon for calling the attention of the committee to it again-is substantially a copy of the New York Constitution, which provides as follows: The State shall be divided into eight judicial districts, of which the city of New York shall be one; the others to be bounded by county lines, and to be compact and equal in population, as nearly as may be. There shall be four justices of the supreme court in each district, and as many more in the district composed of the city of New York as may from time to time be authorized by law, but not to exceed in whole such number, in proportion to its population, as shall be in conformity with the number of such judges in the residue of the State in proportion to its population. The Constitution of New York provides for just such a system as this, only it makes it absolute upon the Legislature. We here leave it to the discretion of the Legislature to create such a system. In the State of New York and, as suggested by the gentleman from Cook [Mr. ~Iedill', the either day, in the State of Ohio this inferior appellate court-this court between the nisi prius court and the supreme court, for the hearing of appeals-has been found to work exceedingly well. Having provided for the appellate court, and having provided that it shall be held by the circuit judges, it is necessarv to provide somewhere how these circuits shall be formed. In section thirteen, the Judiciary Committee has provided for the division of the State into single circuits on the basis of population, and in this section, that in the enlarged circuits, three or more judges shall be elected to hold this appellate court, with the safeguard that no circuit judge who has tried a case at nisi priuts shall sit in review of his own case. The two sections taken together, make the system a perfect one, as I understand it. Mr. WAIT. Mr. Chairman: I would ask the gentleman if that is the system in New York at the present time? MIr. WH:EATON. It is. The provision in the new Constitution was a repetition almost word for word, of the old Constitultion.~ The same inferior appellate court, if I may so term it, was continued in the nesw C~onstitution of last year that was submitted to the people of New York, and the judiciaryr article of that Constitution was the only one accepted by the people. The system was found to work so satisfactorily to the people of New Yolk, that they re adopted it. Mr. TRUESDALE. 1 would like to call the gentleman's attention to one fact. He seems to think that this section fifteen has reference to appellate courts. I see that judges to be elected ~n these districts these judges. Lastly, that the Legislature shall provide for the interchange of these judges throughout such district. Now, this we regard as a most valuable improvement in our judiciary system. It affords an improved mode of election, and also provides for interchange of duties, so as to avoid many of the objections incident to the habit of electing a judge to administer the law amongst his own neighbors. It is understood that peculiar influences and associations surround a judge confined to a single circuit. These influences and associations, attending him in private life, follow him upon the bench, and, let him do the best he can, he cannot get rid of them, or, at least, is under the imputation, while on the bench, of being subject to them, so that it frequently becomes rather difficult for a lawyer who has had a large practice in a small district, when he is put upon the bench, to discharge the duties of judge properly without subjecting himself to imputations in any neighborhood where he has been accustomed to practice law. And another evil results from that system. Judges and lawyers confined to a single circuit, get into a little "rut," into provincial ways and habits in their manner of doing business, and their manner of practice in the circuits; and it was with a view to correct this, and to provide for the introduction of greater uniformity of pr tctice in the various circuits, that the committee left room for the principle of interchange. It was thought it would be better for both suitors and lawyers that there should be this interchange between judges, so as to get rid of many of the objections that naturally attach to the mode of electing in single circuits. It may be objected that it imposes additional labors on the circuit judges; but this ought not to outweigh the benefits to the people resulting from its adoption. If they accept the situation, they must expect to discharge the duties in such way as will best serve the peopleaccepting the office, they would accept it on the terms here proposed. That would be understood when they came upon the bench [Here the hammer fell.] ["Go on." "Leave," "leave."] Mr. HAY. It would be understood that they accepted the office under condition of serving the public in that way that would best subserve the public interest. I am pretty sure, although not accustomed tot such a judiciary system myself, that it would be a valuable improvement on our existing system of single circuits. With that view the committee prepared this section, and I hope it will receive the favorable attention of the Committee of the Whole. It is subject to all the limitations we have provided in section thirteen by the proposed amendment of the chairman of the Committee on Judiciary. It provides that no more circuit judges shall be elected than provided in section thirteen. It simply provides that instead of electing in circuits, we can throw three or four circuits together and elect by a general ticket, say three or four judges in the whole territory so constituted. It is framed, too, in order to adapt it to a further provision of this article that has been favorably passed upon by this Committee of the Whole. That is, that if the Legislature hereafter establish these in CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION FEIDAY, 1138 -~H1,80 EAE ~ RCEIG.13 tion for a short time, I think I can satisfy most persons that this is a very valuable section. It will be seen that the section provides that The General Assembly may divide the State into judicial circuits of greater popula tion and territory, and provide for the elec tion therein, severally,by the electors thereof, by general ticket, of three or more judges, etc. If the whole of that part of the article relating to Cook county courts were stricken out, with the provision in refer-. ence to city courts of different classes, and with this provision allowing three or more judges to be elected in one circuit, the Legislature could mold the law so as to meet the wants of Cook county. I understand that Cook county wants about seven judges of the jurisdictien of ordinary circuit judges. I wish to go as far as I can to accommodate her needs, and I do not say I am for striking out of this separate article all that relates to Cook county; but surely this provision allowing three "or more judges to:be elected in one circuit as the Legislature may prescribe, would meet the wants of Cook county, or any other large county with large cities in it. The next reason in favor of it, is more applicable to other parts of the State. Put together three circuits and there is larger room for the material for circuit judges. It is said that not every man can keep a first-class hotel, and not every man is qualified to be a good circuit judge. Some are constitutionally too fast, some are too slow; some men are business men naturally; some so by cultivation; some get along very indifferently. In this State, the circuits are very unequally divided, so that some have judges adapted to their places and position, who can dispatch business promptly other circuits smaller, but perhaps for want of material, or an unfortunate choice, have what are called "slow-coach" judges, who take a week in trying a case that ought to be tried in a day, or half a day. There may be abundance of able lawyers ii the circuit who would suit, but do not want the place. We must take the best we can get who will accept. In a large circuit, made of three other circuits, there is a wider field for selection of circuit judg respect ively are to hold circuit courts, and not appellate courts. Mr. WHEATON. By turning to section eleven, the gentleman will find it is provided that this appellate court shall be held by circuit judges; and therefore it was necessary that there should be some provision by which the Legislature might create a circuit of three or more judges who might hold this appellate court; and that i; the reason for the necessity of this section fifteen. Mr. TURNER. Mr. Chairman: I move that the committee do now rise, report progress and ask leave to sit again at two o'clock. The motion was agreed to. Mr. CARY. Mr. President: I wish to ask leave for the Committee on Miscellaneous Corporations to retire a short time from the Convention, this afternoon. Leave was granted, nero. con. ADJOURNMENT. Mr. KING. Mr. President: I move the Convention do now adjourn. The motion was agreed to. So the Convention (at twelve o'clock and thirty-seven minutes) adjourned. LEAVE OF ABSENCE. Mr. SHARP. Mr. President: I desire to ask leave of absence, indefinitely, for the gentleman f rom Gallatin [Mr. B ow man], o n account of sickness in his family. Leave was granted nem. con. JUDICIAL DEPARTMENT. T he PRESIDENT. Unles s objection is made, the Convention will resolve itself into Committee of the Whole, to conti nue t he consideration of the judiciary article. So the Convention, as in Committee of the Whole (Mr. Hayes in the chair), resumed the consideration of the report of the Committee on the Judicial Department. The CHAIRMAN. The question is on the amendment offered by the gentleman from Adams [Mr. Skinner.] The Clerk will read the amendment. The Clerk read the amendment offered by Mr. Skinner, as follows: Strike out all after the word "law," in fifth line, and insert, "but the whole number of judges to be elected in such enlarged circuits shall never exceed the proportion of one for every one hundred thousand inhabitants in the State." The CHAIRMAN. The Clerk will read section fifteen, to which the amendment is offered. The Clerk read section fifteen, as follows: SEc. 15. The General Assembly may divide the State into judicial circuits, of greater population and territory, and provide for the election therein, severally, by the electors thereof, by general ticket, of three or more judges, who shall, respectively, hold the circuit courts in the circuit for which they shall be elected, in such manner as may be provided by law; but no such judicial circuit shall be created with less than ninety thousand population for each judge elected therein. Mr. UNDERWOOD. Mr. Chairman: If-the committee will give me their at* es. There is another reason in favor of it. Circuit judges may sometimes be elected on some miserable local question, as of a county seat-questions that usually send small men into office with no other merit than that they are for or against some local measure, or some local interest in litigation; that they are for or against some local hobby on account of which the people, under pressure of local prejudice or interests, are induced to vote for the particular man. iNow, it happened in New York in those "anti-rent" districts that judges were elected in certain districts on account of their views of the rent law. It may be, sir, as our country increases in population, some such local animosities or interests will induce the people to elect judges on account of their known opinions on these questions. If we take a wider range, these local opinions and prejudices would be less likely to exercise a controling influence, and we can overcome any such local passion and prejudice. They are almost always local and do not extend very far. We should elect men who are disinterested and likely to try cases fairly after hearing the argu ments on both sides and after proper de liberation. Then there is another reason, sir. A judge is elected in a circuit. He ought to be a man of experience. He has his old clients. He has given counsel as to land titles perhaps all over that circuit. He will be compelled to sit upon cases where the same questions about which he has been consulted, the same titles about which he has given written or verbal opinions, will arise, perhaps, and he will be exceedingly embarrassed in acting upon those cases. We could, under this system, require him Lo hold court in that part of the district in which he did, not practice, and, in that way, obviate the evil. Another evil, sir, would be obviated. A judge is elected in a circuit. He has a large number of cases on the docket for trial. One of his clients would be re quired, under the present law, to take a change of venue to some other adjoining circuit and thereby put witnesses and parties to the expense of going to some other county. All this will be avoided, if we require the circuit judge elected in one of these divisions to hold the courts in counties in which he did not practice. Again, Mr. Chairman, it is known, or at least supposed, that circuit judges al ways have their favorites. Lawyers get the idea that after a judge has held court in a circuit a few years, some of them have mere influence with him than others. The people get that idea, and there may be something in it at times. Another judge may have preju dices against local lawyers and sometimes perhaps do them and their clients injus tice in their cases. If we provide this sys tem of changing judges, requiring them to hold court in different counties from time to time, we will give in that way the lawyers and their clients something like an even chance to try their cases on the merits. But that is not all. There is another reason. Some judges are better adapted to chancery cases than any other class of cases. Others are better adapted to, and take more pleasure in, trying criminal and common law cases. Now, the experience of every gentleman of the bar will bear mezwitness that there are some judges who wvish to adjourn the moment they get over the law cases, and thus they leave the chancery docket indefinitely undisposed of, and dragging its slow length along from year to year. Another class of judges delight in trying chancery cases. Such a judge will dispose of the chancery docket with facility. Now, in this way, by charging the judges around all their circuits, we get the benefit of the best chancery judges, the best criminal and the best common law judges from time to time. [Here the hammner fell.] [" Go on.'] Mr.)JND ERW00D. Again, sir, there are some judges who are exceedingly slow, and in their circuits business always lags behind. Others are prompt, active business men. Now, it is but right that the people should have the benefit of the good judges, as wvell as be compelled to bear the burden of the poor ones for the whole six years.. Again, we provided in this article, which I hope will be the law, that tilere MAMCII 11) 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1139 AFTER-NOON SESSION. F.RIDAY, March 11, 1870. The Convention iaiet at two o'clock P. m., and was called to order by the Presideint. 1140 COSTITTIOAL GOYETION FRIT)AY, shall be uniformity of practice in all the l courts of the same grade, all over the a State, so far as regulated by the Legislature. It is also desirable that there should e be uniformity of practice in the circuit g courts; that their local unwritten rules w of practice should be somewhat uniform. t Now, if the judges change counties, they t will be apt to consult together; they will c be apt to have their practice much nearer uniform than it is now. t I believe these are about all the reasons that have occurred to me in favor of this very excellent section, which looks far into the future, and may be molded in such a shape as to be exceedingly useful. Mr. DEMENT. Mr. Chairman: I am1 opposed to the section, and shall move to strike it out, before I take my seat.! I recollect very well when section J twenty-three was under consideration by ~ the Committee of the Whole, for a day or two, that the committee was appealed to in behalf of it, for the reason that a very ~' respectable and eminent lawyer had sug-' gested that section, and so long as that 1 eminent gentleman was absent, and not here to defend it, that the committee sustained the section; but finally the gentle- 1 man arrived, made a very eloquent speech, 1 and gave, to a considerable extent, different reasons for the support of the section: from what those who sustained the sec-' tion on account of his absence gave; and' when the vote was taken, a few minutes: after, that section was voted out of the article. So much for the argument that another eminent gentleman in his last words: whispered to the Judicial Committee the advantages in favor of this section. I sincerely regret the absence of the distinguished gentleman. Now, sir, I am not here to represent the interests of these eminent gentlemen in their absence. I am here to support a judicial system that is efficient, plain and fixed, without so many crooks and turns upon the face of it; and after we have adopted all that we can possibly incorporate in the article, with any hope of meeting the approbation of the people, there are yet retained in this section a few reserved crooks and turns for the Legislature to adopt in their discretion hereafter, as in the course of time it may see fit to impose them upon the people. I am opposed to the object of this section. I am opposed to massing circuits together, and electing judges by general ticket in districts that may comprise, for all we know, a dozen circuits. The State may be divided into two great districts) and each of the districts elect by general ticket, all the circuit judges that district would be entitled to elect, or that might be required to be elected. I am desirous that when we shall have got through with our duties here, we shall have made a Conlsti tution fixing definitely the powers of our government, the executive, the legisla-tive, and judicial powers, and providing that each. shall be independent of the other. We have framed articles upon those great divisions of our State government. N low, by this section, the judicial branch is to b~e left so that it may be changed by the Legislature hereafter. I am opposed to it for the reason that if we should have a dozen judges fn one district, with 1,200,000 populatio~ in it,~e would then have them elected upon political g ro und s and principles. I say that my obse rvation and experiMnce is entir ely t he revers e of tha t of the gentleman from St. Clair [Mr. Underwood], and I submit it to the lawyers in Ihis Conve ntion, wheth er it i s so or nott, that small local question s, as a general rule, or a s any r ule whatever, influence t he s election o f judges; and whether it is not t he case that the attorneys of th e circuit ge nerally nominate a candidate forjudge without reference to political quest ions, whet her that nomination i s g enerally adopted by the people? I submit that the att or neys are less likely to take a lawyer at all liable to the imputa tion of bein g partial t o the attorneys who practice before him, as a circuit judge, thaan a lawyer selected in a large district by general ticket. The people take but ve ry littl e interes t i n the judicial elections. If they have a man presented, select ed by the b ar, and made a candidate wit hin their circuits, they take the individual suggested by the att orneys; an d, so fa r a s my ob serva tion go es, they very seldom f in d any fault; whoever may be se l ected, be his polit ics what they may, the people indorse the selection. Then, again, sir, I object to this for the reason that judge s m ay b e put to great inconvenience a nd p rivation without a corresponding benefit to the people. The advantage c l a imed for the section is, that judges ma y be sent a round out of the circuit in which the y live. Th at is no advantage to the people, in my view. cIt is a disadvantage and inconvenience t o the judge him self, and no judge will have a distinct circuit, so far as I can see. If, further, the districts should contain suffic ient population, for a doze n judges, say 1,200,000 inhabitants, they may all be elected from one district and be ent ir e ly unknow n to the a ttorneys and the people o f t he rem ainder. C andidate s a re elected almost en tirely, under such circumstances, upon p olitical questions. Furth er, sir, it is a ne w system. It is what I sincerely b el i eve the lawyer s of th e State and the people of the State, out of this body, do not expect. It will take them all by sur pr ise. Th e only alternative of the State would be t he possibility that the Legislature might never see the by this section. But nevertheless, they might decide in f avor of this plan. It will be a subj ec t of l egisla tion at every period when, by the s ectionf t hey would have a righ t to adopt it or consider it. Even a minority of each house presenting it and its failing to be adopted, does no t protect us against the timo losta and expense incurred in the attempt to adopt it in legislati ng on t he s ubjec t. I th ink, sir, that our present system is approved by the peop le. It is not an evil that w e should shun to ava il our selv es of evils that we know not of. I hopes sir, that this section will not be adopted. It is not necessary, in my juadgment. I believe the people do not wish for it, and that they will not cheerfullly accept and indorse it. I move to stri ke out section fifteen. The CHAIRMAN. That motion is already pending. The motion to amend takes precedence. Mr. DEMENT. I was not aware there was a prior motion to strike out the section. The CHAIRNAN. There is-=-made I s s r t t i t t t i t CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION FRIDAY, 1140 by the gentleman from Madison [Mr. Springer]. There is also a motion to amend. Mr. WAIT. Mr. Chairman: Eminent lawyers on this floor have spoken with such confidence of the propriety of this section, that it is with some hesitancy I rise to oppose its adoption. I was not aware that the section is of so much importance as is claimed for it. There are several things to be taken intoaccount in discussing its merits or demerits. First, does the election, under this section, secure better judges, and will such elections be carried on with less corruption or less undue influence under it? I think not. If the State, as proposed, should be divided into large judicial districts, so that they will contain at least three judges in each district, which district, according to the average population of the counties in the State, would contain at least twelve counties, three judges would be elected in those twelve counties. Mr. A says he would like to be elected judge; Mr. B says he would like to be elected in his section of the district to the position of judge, and Mr. C says the same of his section; so the three candidates say: " Let us fix a plan so that we can secure our election." So they go to work. They make up the slate-these three men together-and thus three manipulators defeat the wishes of the people. But I apprehend the real object of the section has not yet been stated. The real object has thus far been concealed. The introduction of this section is for the purpose of introducing a machinery here by which the minorities can beat the majorities. That is, as I apprehend, its object. It is for the purpose of introducing this minority representation principle in the election of judges. The minority representation principle will come up hereafter, and the propriety of such a repre. sentation will be discussed in its proper time. In any light it can be put, whether in reference to the purity of the election or the purity of the judicial ermine, three men combining for their election together, can have more undue influence than one. And there is another reason. I believe, Mr. Chairman, that every community ought to take upon itself the responsibility of its own acts. I believe every judicia~l circuit should take the responsibility of electing its own judge, and if it should elect a poor judge it should alone be responsible. I do not believe in this shirking of responsibility from one man's shoulders to another. I believe every man should assume the responsibility of his own act, whether it be popular or otherwise, and I believe the principle should be applied to judicial circuits. Is there any benefit in having three judges in one judicial circuit? Is there any advantage to be derived from its? One gentleman says we run too much in a groove; that judges have too many local ideas, andsthat, under this system, one judge migh~t sit one term, and another the next term, and thus avoid that objection. How would that operate? ~hy, sir, suppose you, Mr. Chairman, should have a very important chancery suit. Arguments are made in this case, and the judge sitting-for the time being hears part of the argument, and partially makes up his mind upon the case;* then another judge takes his place at the nest term, who is required Wv determine the ~ARCI ll 180 EAE ^ RCEJG.14 The fifteenth section, without referring to the thirteenth section at all, provides that The Legislature may divide the State into judicial circuits, of greater population and territory, and provide for the election there in, severally, by the electors thereof, by general ticket, of three or more judges, who shall respectively hold the circuit courts in the circuit for which they shall be elected, in such manner as may be provided by law; but no such judicial circuit shall be created with less than ninety thousand population for each judge elected therein. Now, sir, it does not anywhere say that this is an alternative proposition. I have prepared an amendment, Mr. Chairman, if an amendment is in order The CHAIRMAN. It is in order only to amend the words proposed to be in serted or the words to be stricken out. Mr. ARCHER. Well, Mr. Chairman, my amendment is this: after the word "territory" to add these words —"in lieu of the c i r cuit s provided for in section thirteen." The CHAIRMAN. The motion is not in order. The Clerk will read the amend ment pending. The Clerk read the amend ment offered by Mr. Skinner, as follows: Strike out all after the word "law," in fifth line, and insert, "but the whole number of judges to be elected in such enlarged circuits shall never exceed the proportion of one for every one hundred thousand inhabitants in the State." Mr. PERLEY. Mr. Chairman: I, too, am opposed to the section. I am for each circuit electing its own judge. If he is slow, that is the look out of the people who choose him. If he is fast, so be it. We cannot get all the virtues in one man and we should not be sure to in three. The bar and the people will get to making comparisons between their three judges, and "comparisons are odious." The bar will say, "Judge A ruled so and so, at the last term, and you rule differently." The bar will not dare to lie to the same judge about his ruling. With one judge there is no opportunity for rivalry for envy of each other-for running against and overruling each oth er. We all know that if one judge were given to granting i)j unctions, every suitor would run to him, and that would pique his two brethren. When we come to the appellate court, the judge whose decision was overruled by the decision of his brethren of the same circuit, would feel very differently about it and towards them from what he would if they were not of his circuit. If we had a large circuit and elected three judges, they would come from dif ferent parts of the circuit. Each one would be unknown in parts of the district remote from where he resided. Then, one side of the circuit being accommodated by the man from that section, and the other by the judge from their corner, there would be fault found, and complaint made. There would be all the local prejudices of the bar to be eucountered by each in turn. There would not be the advantage gained, predicted by the gentleman from St. Clair [Mr. Underwood], ill having one fast, another slow, and a third about medium, going around the circuit. Where there is a "fast" judge, the bar know it, and the suitors know it, and get ready to have their cases tried; and if the judge is a "slow" one, they get used to him, and know how to act. But if there be first a "fast" judge, and the n a "slow" one, the people and the bar ar e in ho t wate r a ll the time. There is not a circuit - in the State, I do not care how small it may be, i n which the material for a good judge does not exist. There is not one that has not got a good judge on the bench, or a good man who would like to take his place if he was off. The profession of the law is a peculiar profession, sui generis. It is not like any other-there is no half-way about it. A man is a lawyer, or he is not.' There are good lawyers everywhere. One cannot find a place so remote from the great centers of business and learning, even in the obscurest counties, that there are not on the bench and at the bar men learned in the law; men who may be good judges, and are good advocates. That is well known. It has been so from the earliest history of the St.-te up to the present time. There cannot, under this new proposition, be carved out a circuit so small, th it there will not be within its limits, in the ranks of the profession, in both political parties, men fit to sit upon the bench and administer the law hon estly and intelligently. I am in favor of allowing the people to elect a man whom they know, and who knows them. When they have done this, their judges ought to try their cases. He is responsible to the people that elected him. If he is not a good judge the peo ple alone are to blame for it, and ought to pay the penalty. The amendment offered by Mr. Skinner was agreed to. The CHAIRMAN. The question is upon the amendment of the gentleman from Pike [Mr. Archer], if he presses the amendment. If not, it will be on strik ing out the section-the motion made by the gentleman from Madison [Mr. Spring er]. Mr. HAINES, of Lake. Mr. Chairman: The principle of this section seems to contain the spirit of progress, and in that lightI would regard it as being proper to be adopted; but the details are evi dently all wrong. However, as far as I am concerned, I am willing to accept it as it is, because it contains a good principle. But the difficulty with this committee thus far in my opinion is, that we have set out upon a very narrow basis, and I am afraid we will have some trouble. We have limited justice according to the extent of population; that is, we have limited the means of administering justicce according to the extent of population. If' we were to apply that to all portions of the State, the city of Chicago would have to dispense with an attempt to dispose of its litigation. It is not p,opulation that brings cases into court to be adjudicated upon. It is the circumstances under which the population is placed. We may take 50,000 inhabitants in the interior or the northern part o~f the State, away from general commer. cial transactions, and compare them with the county of Sangamen, containing about 50,000, and we will find that the court of Sanjgamen county has dou ble the business that a court ion a district back in the country has. It is not, therefore, the population that regulates, but the wants and the demandls of the country in which the population reside; and, when we surround these provisions with these restrictions and restraints in regard tot the case. Why, sir, you would be obliged to go over the entire case again. I wish wh en a judge takes his seat to have him remain there from term to term, and if he isa partial judge, as has been said, let him not escape to some other circuit for t he purpose of avoiding the condemna tion of his partiality. It is claimed that under this section, and the eleventh section put together, there can be established what is called an "appellate court." I am decidedly against such a court, and such arguments are no inducement to me togive the section sup port. Courts provided for here are so numerous that one can scarcely remember their names. I believe the more we make the judges directly responsible for the manner of conducting the courts, the bet ter it is for us. For instance, it is claimed for Chicago that a portion of that city wants four or five different kinds of covurts; that the old established court, however, which-has existed so long that the memory of man runneth nlot to the contrary, shall cease to exist in the city of Chicago, to-wit: "There sha~l be no justices of the peace or police magistrates in the city of Chi cago." Yet, while gentlemen propose t,., abolish this time-honored court, they pro pose to have courts numerous in kind. This principle is bad, and tends to make the law a delusion and a suare to mislead and delude the people. Mr. ARCHER. Mr. Chairman: I am in favor, sir, of this system of appellate courts, provided for in the eleventh sec tion of this report, and have expressed my views to that effect before thie com mittee, when that section was under consideration. I do not, however, see that it becomes necessary to adopt the fifteenth section in connection with it, in order to save these courts or to provide for them. The thirteenth section provides that the State, exclusive of the county of Cook, shall, before the expiration of the terms of these circuit judges, be divided into judicial circuits, containing not less than ninety thousand population (that has been changed, however, to one hundred thousand), and that judges shall be elected by the electors thereof. This thirteenth section provides for single circuits, and I suppose the,t by the election of judges in single circuits, according to the provisions of the thirteenth section, districts might be formed for the judges elected in these single circuits toget,her, as easily as by the judges in the or )re enlarged circuits, provided in: the fifteen^th section; and if that is attainabtle, and the eleventh section can be maintained, I should be in favor of striking out the fifteenth section. If, however, this fifteenlth section be retained, and it is au alternative proposition to the thirteenth section, as referred to by the genfieman from Sangamen [Mr. Hay], and one which the General Assembly may hereafter substitute for the thirteenth section,1 and is not intended as an inde. pendent proposition by itself, it appears to me that the section does not go far enough to} convey that idea, but leaves it doubtful whether it is,an alternative proposition, or whether it may not be a provision for the election of so many more circ uit judges. If it be an alternative proposition, it ought to say so, and ought to provide that it is in lieu of section thirteen, whenever it may be adopted. 28~ X~~~~~~~~~~ MARC]ff 11, 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1141 CONSTITTUTIONAL CONVENTION This question has been well considered by those gentlemen of the Judiciary Committee, in whom I have the greatest confidence. I concur most heartily with their judgment in the principle that they have reported; but I am opposed to the special legislation that they have brought in with it, and I hope it will be modified in that respect. The CHAI.IRMAN. The question is lupon the amendment of the gentleman from Madison [Mr. Springer] to strike out the section. Mr. HAINES, of Cook. Mr. Chairman: Not being a lawyer myself, I do not propose to speak upon the merits of this case upon the "law side" of this question at all; but propose to take it upon another side altogether. I see, sir, that we have introduced in this section a principle which probably is to prevail ultimately in the State, and, perhaps, in the whole covintry-that which we call a system of "minority rep resentation," leaving to minorities the op portunity of what is called a "cumulative vote.", Now, sir, while that may be very de sirable in a legislative body that represents an entire State; while it may be de sirable in some other local legislative bodies, it seems to me that it would be very undesirable in our judicial system; and I speak now from my own stand point, as representing, in part, a large city in the State. I am impelled, sir, bv what I think to be my duty here, to express my views upon this subject, as they bear upon our locality, and will bear upon other localities as they get to be more populous. If there is any one official in our po litical system who should be entirely re moved from the contaminating influences of politics, and of those immoral influ ences that cluster around and fester in our large towns, it is the judicial officer-it is the judges of our courts; and I am free to say, sir, here and now, that if I could have my way in this matter, I would do away with the elective judiciary system altogether, for I believe in that way we should get a better system than we have now. Inasmuch, however, as that is not to be, but we are to have this elective ju diciary system, I do not desire to see any thing put into this article that will give, in the large towns, an opportunity for the bad element that congregates around them, to foist upon the bench one of their immediate representatives. Now, sir, let us take the county of Cook, and see how this would operate on what is called the "cumulative vote." Sup pose we had on the representation, as has been provided for in another section, four circuit judges-calling our population four hundred thousand. Now, sir, sup pose that the element that now congre gates in that city, such as congregates int all large cities; suppose that that element t cumulates its vote upon one of these four judges. We have forty thousand votes in ; the county. They can raise ten thousand any time; and suppose they foist upon us p a judge representing that peculiar ele ment; then, gentlemen, where do we stand? I tell you, it is a dangerous prin ciple to incorporate in the judiciary artit a cle of our State. It might do very well if we were a rural population, if we had e only small towns. or, if the towns in the country were so mixed up that the judges would be elected all together, but in our i i FP,IDAY, 11,12 case it will not be so-it will b -, the town that w il I elect tb e j adges; and I, for one, want to see that system continued that has given us good judges. To-day, s.,y what you please, the judiciary of this State, as compared with the judiciary of the State of New York, will not suffer by comparison. I believe that it is our boast, that up to this time our judiciary has been a good one. The judges stand above reproach and suspicion; and it is because we have kept judicial elections out of politics. We have elected our judges independently of politics; we have taken them because we have believed them to be good men, without regard to where they stood, politically, religiously, or any other way; all good men who have united in their votes upon the candidates who have been recommended by the legal fraternity in the different cirodits and different communities. I would not have said a word on this question, had I not deemed it mv impera. tive duty to do so; and it is upon the moral side of the question that I am speaking, and not upon the- legal side at all, foi about that I know nothing. Mr. SPRINGER. Mr. Cha;,rman: I desire to say a few words on the motion I have made to strike out this section. At the time I made the motion I did so for the reasons I stated at the time-it seemed to create a new system of circuits for the State. There is nothing therein providing that the circuits shall be formed in lieu of those formed under section thirteen. The CHAIRMAN. I would ask the gentleman to suspend for a moment. The gentleman from Pike [Mr. Archer] had proposed an amendment, which'Was not formally stated. He has seiat it up in writing. It reads thus: Insert after the word "territory," insecond line, the words "in lieu of the circuits provided for in section thirteen. The question is upon the adoption of this amendment. Air. SKINNER. Mr. Chairman: I do not believe there will be any objection to accepting the amendment. It meets the views of the gentleman from Madison [Mr. Springer]. Mr. SPRINGER. Certainl it does. I am in favor of it, because it is necessary population, we defeat the object sought to be accomplished. The principle of establishing circuits with three judges, is no doubt up to the demands of the age, but it ought not to be more than three in a circuit, for the reason given by the gentleman from Lee [Mr. Dement]. There we ought to stop, and leave the question of population to be determined by the General issembly. But I would like to see this principle of the section retained in the Cor-istitution. It is an alternative to which tht,people may resort when the system of circuits with a single judge shall have faile,d to accomplish the object which the progress of the times will demand. It has been objected to this principle of three judges in the circuit, that it will introduce the minority principle of election. I am WilliDLY to try that any time. We ought to bE7willing to leave some provision here by which the people can introduce that system, if they desire to do so, and there is no better opportunity to introduce that plan of electing officers than in the judiciary. It has been said here that the judges are uQt the representatives of the people. That is not true in a republican form of government. Mr. DEMENT. I will ask the gentleman if there is not an equa'jl, if not a better, opportunity to introduce the minority system of voting, by distriCtiDg the State into representative and senatorial districts where three or more members are to be elected in each district? ..Air. HAINES, of Lake. I do not regard it as any better. It is as good, as far as the legislative branch of the govern ment is concerned. I am willing to try that. I am ta'kiing now of the j adiciary branch of the government, and I am willing to see it tried in regard to that, when ever the people shall choose to adopt it. As far as I am concerned, I am willing to leave this Constitution in that form, so that the people cau adopt that system, as applied to the judiciary, if they desire to do so. I do not express any OpiUiOR On -the merits (-,f the subject, but I am willing to have such a provision in the Constitution. Lawyers inform us it is a matter of convenience, and a matter that tends to the ends of justice, for judges to have an MAROH 11, 1870. DEBATES AXI) 1'OCEEDIXGS. 1143 five people will be required to elect four, the or six judges. o I am opposed to it for another reason. The argument offered-and it is a very good one-that it is the intention, among other things, to alternate the judges, amounts to this: not to permit a judge to sit where he is known. It occurs to me, that is not a sufficient reason. If it is a disqualification of a man, or if it detracts from his ability to act as judge, that he is familiar with the people upon whose rights he is to act, whose interests he is to consider, whose welfare he is to seek to promote, it is the first time I have heard of such a position being taken, and an effort made to defend it. I believe that a judge will better discharge his duties in a circuit where he is better known and better acquainted with the people and their interests. I therefore think that we are doing enough going far enough-when we have adopted the thirteenth section. I would be willing to add a proviso to section thirteen, that the General Assembly may unite any four or more circuits, created under that section, constitute them an appellate district, and provide, if it should appear to be necessary, that judges of the separate circuits may hold courts in the other circuits constituting their appellate districts, for which they were not elected-thus alternating the judges. This would accomplish everything claimed for this section. while it would avoid the confusion and political managing, which are certain to attend the election of so many judges in large circuits. [Here the hammer fell.] The CHAIRMAN. The question is upon striking out section fifteen. Mr. MEDILL. Mr. Chairmatl: Before the vote is taken on this section, I desire to say a word, first, in reply to my colleague [Mr. Haines] from Cook county, who has made some very extraordinary statements in regard to the character of the people of the county which I in part represent. The gentleman would have this Convention believe that one-third or more than a third of the people of Cook county are scouLdrels, or under the control of scoundrels. I cast back the imputation in his face as an unfounded aspersion on the people of Cook county. The criminal class of Cook county are undoubtedly numerous —but not that numero IS. -- The criminlal class of Cook county can elect nobody by their own strength on the totality principle, or on any other principle of voting. cMr. HAINES, of Lake. Mr. Chairman: I would ask Mr. MEDILL. Not now. The CHAIRMAN. The practice of interrupting gentlemen who are speaking under the ten minute rule is a bad practice, which should be discouraged. Mr. HAINES, of Lake. Mr. Chairman: I would like to inquire —i The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman from Cook [Mr. Medill] has the floor. Mr. MEDILL. Mr. Chairman: If the minority principle is provided for in this fifteenth section, in practical operation, it would result thus: That when three judges are to be elected in Cook county at one time, the majority party would elect two of the judges, and the minority party one of the judges. As parties are now constituted,:he republicans would posing the provision, simply because it is not the old Constitution. I am in favor of all improvements. There are some objections to the system of courts as recommended by the committee, but in the main I like it very well. It seems to be the opinion of many gentlemen, as was plainly indicated in the debates on yesterday, that courts are to be created for judges; others seem to think that the people are to be huddled together and numbered for a court. It occurs to me that both of these positions are false in theory. Courts are or should be created for the people. The number of courts, and the extent of their jurisdiction should not depend so much upon the number of people as the wants of the people. When the wants of the people are supplied, then I think we have gone far enough. But, I object to these large circuits. It is intimated by the gentleman from San. gamon [Mr. Hay], that the circuits here constituted are to be the districts for appellate courts which are to be framed under section eleven of this report. That being the case, it occurs to me (if we accept the theory advocated by some gentlemen that courts are to be created for the judges, and that the physical ability of the judges to perform the work is to determine the extent of the circuits), that we are requiring more than some of them can perform. If we are to form appellate districts out of these circuits, there -must be at least four judges in each circuit, because, on the appellate bench, no judge can review a case decided by himself. There must be, on an average, one judge to every one hundred thousand inhabitants. It will, then, require at least four hundred thousand population to constitute one of these enlarged circuits. According to the estimates I have made, it will take thirty counties in the southern part of the State for one circuit. These thirty counties must have at least two terms of the circuit court held in each of them every year. Allowing twenty days for a term in each county, we have three hundred days of the year taken up with circuit courts, and sixty-five days only are left in which to hold a term of the appellate court, in each one of the thirty counties. Now, it seems to me, that we are requiring of the judges more than they can do; and for this reason, also, I am opposed to these large circuits. I am opposed to them for another reason. I propose that we shall have as pure men upon the bench as possible; men free from political or other taints, that they may be the better qualified to discharge their duties as judges; and I claim that it is impossible for the people to act advisedly and judiciously in the selection of judicial officers when they are called upon to vote for men whose names, perhaps, they have never heard spoken, or when, if they have heard that much of them, they know no mo}re about their judicial qualificationss than if they had never heard of them. In order that the people may make judicious and wise selections it is necessary they shouid know the men for whom they are to vote. I, therefore, think, that small circuits with one judge, will be more certain to secure good and efficient judicial officers than canl be secured by these large, unwieldy circuits whgein elect two of them and the democrats o ne. Now, the republicans are not in the habit of electing judges in the interest of the criminal classes, and it would be far from me to make a charge that the democrats are guilty of doing it. I think the democratic judges in Illinois are, on the whole, men of as high character, purity and ability as their political opponents, but of not any higher. I believe the democrats of Cook county, while they remain in a minority in that county, would elect, as the third judge, just as good a man, one as free from all criminal influences, of as high character, integrity and talent as the republ cans would elect. I believe the effect would be, so far from giving the criminal classes control of our judiciary, in whole or in part, to enable both parties to defy them, even as a "balance of power" in caucuses, and that it would result in securing to the bench the best men in the county for those exalted positions. I felt that I could not sit still in my seat while my colleague from the same district cast such imputations upon my constituents, as that one-third of them, in effect, belonged to the criminal, or were under the control of the criminal classes, and that it was therefore dangerous to insert a provision of this kin d, lest the villians of Cook county would put a scoundrel upon the bench of our highest courts. The gentleman from Henry [Mr. Wait] presented an argument that is entitled to consideration and respect, though I think it is fallacious; but that may be a difference of opinion. He says a majority should rule and be responsible for the governiment of the whole people. I admit that, as a general proposition, but I deny the sequence he draws from it-that the majority should have absolute control, untempered, uninfluenced, unmodified, by the wishes of the minority. I do not believe in despotism in any form. Russia is said to be a government of despotism tempered by assassination. I do not want a despotism in this country that would be untempered even by the relief Russia is said to have. I believe the minority as well as the majority have rights. I hold that every man in the minority, on any question of policy, has as many rights, man for man', as any man of the majority. I believe that to be the democratic principle or theory on which the American republic is founded, but which has lnot been fully provided for in our mode of admninistering it. If this section is capable of the construction put upon it by somegentlemen, it is in the direction of progress, of the nesw ideas which ar~ taking possession of the people, and sooner or later will prevail.~ My friend from Peoria [Mr. W~ells], remarked, that the only article in the new Constitution of New York that was adopted, was the judiciary article. That is true, and that article contained the minority principle of representation-in the election of supreme j udges. Seven judges are to be elected, on a general ticket, and each voter is restricted to voting for five candidates, which will necessarily enable the minority to elect one of those highest judicial officers instead of the majority party taking all. It provides, also, for giving the people theopportunity in 1873, to abolish the elective system of judges and substitute the appointive systems. MARCII 11) 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1143 1144~ COSIUI-LC~Y~TO RDY The committee divided, when, there being twenty-one in the affirmative and twenty-four in the negative, the motion was not agreed to. Section fifteen, as amended, was then agreed to. ADDITIONAL SECTION. Mr. BROWNING. Mr. Chairman: I believe that concludes the sections which were postponed, with the exception of the section relating to the supreme court, which awaits the action of the special committee. I will now suggest that the committee proceed to the consideration of the few general provisions in the latter part of the article, and leave the portion applicable to the Cook county judiciary to be considered after we have disposed of the general provisions. I do not insist upon it, but only suggest it. While I am on the floor, I wish to offer an amendment, as an additional section, to be added to the general provisions of the article. I do not ask its consideration now, but offer it, and wish it to lie on the table for the present, to be taken up with the other general provisions when we come to consider them. The Clerk read the section offered by Mr. Browning, as follows: In the,lection of all judicial officers, whenever more than one is to be elected, by the same constituency, for the same office and term of service, every elector shall have as many votes as there are officers so to be elected, and may distribute his votes equally or unequally, in whole votes or in fractions, among the candidates, or any number of them, or concentrate them all upon one candidate, as he sees fit; and the candidates receiving the highest number of votes shall be declared elected. The CHAIRMAN. The question is upon the adoption of section twentynine. It was th ose new improvements upon the judicial system of New York-the minority idea as well as the appointivethat carried that article by fifteen thousand majority, while the remainder of the new Constitution was defeated by from forty thousand to fifty thousand majority. It will be a great mistake, if this Convention shall incorporate any provision that will deny to the people in the future the right to have the minority represented, if they want it. I am:not asking this Convention to impose the minority principle upon the people, but simply to leave the door open for them to have it, and enjoy it, when the time comes that public opinion is ripe for its introduction. vention, or of all members elected, is necessary to constitute a quorum in Committee of the Whole. The Co mmit tee o f th e Wh,)le is a kind of body entirely s epara te and differe nt from the Co nvention. They can pass nothing. They keep no journalno record- they can onl y recomm end. It seems to me that however few vote in Committee of the Whole, that i s a decision of the committee for the time being. When t he committee rises and reports, t he Convention can consider and decide-then a quorum is necessary. The CHAIRMAN. The Chair will state the reason for its decision. The Committee of the Whole is a committee that requires the same quorum as the Convention. There is no rule except the general parliamentary rule that requires a majority of the body for the taking of any action. When a vote is taken by sound, the number of ayes and noes is not counted, and the presumption is in favor of a quorum; but when, upon a division and a count, there is less than a quorum shown by the vote, the committee may wait until a quorum appears, or rise and report to the Convention. Mr. BRONMWELL. As I understand the rule, the committee, if it finds that there is no quorum voting, must proceed to a call of the house, and if there is no quorum, it must rise. If it finds that there is a quorum present, it goes on with its business. Mr. WELLS. Whether they vote or not? The CHAIRMAN. There is evidently a quorum present. All that is necessary is for all present to vote, upon one side or the other. Mr. TURNER. I wish to ask a ques tion for information. The question is now upon striking out this section. If we refuse to strike out, will the amend men,it of the gentleman from Fulton [Mr. Cummings] then be in order? The CIIAIRiMAN. The amendment will not be in order. The amelndment is to strike out and insert other words. A division has been called for, and the vote will be again taken on the striking out. All who are in favor of the amendment will vote to strike out, in order that they may vote to insert the other words pro posed. Mr. TURNER. I am not sure but we should make an amendment, in some way to this section. It is true we are con;siderinlg sections under the head of "courts for Cook county;"> but if the Constitution we are framing should be adopt|ed. an~d should last as long as we hope it will last, we may have other cities, other couln tics in the State where an extra j udge Lortwo may be required. We may have another city of one hundred thousand, or two hundred thousand, grow up in our State, and, I think, under the Co nstitu. tion as we have it framed, we could not give such counties or cities additional juldges, without creating therein separate circuits. Now, it would be impracticable, if not impossible, to divide Cook counsty into six, seven or eight judicial circuits. It could not well be de~me. We could not defilee the boundaries thereof without a great de al of difficulty, and then it would lead to il~terminable confusion. The isame thing magi happen ill the case of Quincy, Peoria} Cairo, or any other city that may grow up to have a large population. A county or ci~y may grow to QUESTION OF PRIVILEGE. Mr. HAINES, of Lake Mr. Chairman: I rise t,h a privileg question. I do not lik e to get out if order myself. WVe are told by lawyers, that "consent of parties takes away error." The Chair has ruled that it is out of order to interrupt a gentleman in the course of a ten minutes screech. I wish to inquire if, when a gentleman gets the consent of the gentleman speaking, he is not in order? It often happens, when a gentleman is mak ig an argument, that a suggestion to him may draw out something that would save the person propounding the question from making a long speech; and I wish to inquire if the consent of the gentle man speaking does not make it in order to ask him a qaestion..... The CHAIRMAN. That depends upon circumstances. The Chair remarked that the practice of interrupting gentlenmen who have only ten minutes to speak, ought to be discouraged. The Chair did not intend to censure the gentleman from Lake [Mr. Haines]. But there is no such question before the Chair now. Whenever it arises the Chair will endeavor to decide it. Mr. HAINES, of Lake. I submit, Mr. Chairman, that the question did arise, and has not been decided yet. It arose between the gentleman from Cook [Mr. Medill] and myself. The CHAIRMAN. It is in order when a gentleman is speaking, for another gentleman to rise and address the Chair on a question of order, as it may be to ask the permission of the other gentleman having the floor, to address an inquiry to him. If the gentleman yields the floor, it is in order for him to do so. But infbrmal interruptions of gentlemen who are on the 'floor ought to be discouraged. There is no question of the sort raised before the Chair. Mr. HAINES, of Lake. The record,: sir, as it now stands, is that I am out of order. I wish to have that overruled. I put the question now wiiether I was in order or not, and desire to have the ruli;g of the Chair either affirmed or revoked. Mr. ANDERSON. Mr. Chairman: I would suggest that the gentleman from C(ok [Mr. Medill] refused to yield to the gentleman from Lake, and therefore the point of order does not arise. JUDICIAL DEPARTMENT —AG(AIN. The CHAIRMAN. -The question is DOW uponl the motion of the gentleman from Madison [Mr. Springer], to strike out the section. Adivision was ordered. COOK COUNTY CIRCUIT. The Clerk read section twenty-nine, as follows: SEC. 29. The county of Cook shall be one judicial circuit. iMer. WELLS. Mr. Chairman: I move to strike out section twenty-nine. Mr. ANTHONY. I would like to know the reason for striking it out. Mr. CUMMINGS. Mr. Chairman: I wish to offer an amendment. The Cltrk read the amendment offered by Mr. Cummings, as follows: gIl counties having over two hundred thousand inhabitants shall comprise one judicial circuit. The CqHAIRMA N. The motion of the gentleman from Fulton [Mr. Cummings] Is to strike out section twentyniune, and in sert the words that have been read. Mr. SEDGWICK. I call for a division of the question. The CHAIRMAN. The question will a,e divided. A division was ordered. The committee divided, when, there being ten in the affirmative and twentyseven in the negative, the Chair announced that there was no quorum voting. Mr. WELLS. Mr. Chairman: I rise to a question of order, which is this. I do not know whether I am right or wrong I desire to have the opinion of the Chair. We are in Committee of the Whole. Suppose there be no quorum present. The only thing that can be done is for the comnmittee to rise and report. I do understand that a majority of the whole Con I I s I FRIDAY) CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION 1144 DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. have a population of two hundred thou- Mr. SEDGWICK. Mr. Chairman: I with single judges, and larger circuits or sand. Then it may become necessary to wish to offer an amendment. districts with three or four judges. And make the same provision for such county The Clerk read the amendment offered in adopting the one plan or the other, or or city that we are now making for Cook by Mr. Sedgwick, as follows: any change from one plan to another, it county; and I think upon reflection that Each counrty having a population of two may be found necessary that the Legislathe amendment of the gentleman from hundred thousand shall beorganized into one ture should have power to change the Fultnn [BIr. Cummings] ought to be separate judicialcircuit. boundaries of circuits, so as to adapt adopted. I am not quite sure that he Mr. CAMIERON. Mr. Chairmant: I them to the wantsof thepeople. If they has got it in the right shape, but I think rise to a point of order. The amendment should adopt the plan of large circuits substantially it is correct, and therefore I is not applicable to the question under with three or more judges (and the numhope we will vcte to strike out this sec- consideration, and is therefore not in or- ber is not limited, as to how many they tion with the view of incorporating the der. The section relates exclusively to may have), it might be wise and convensubstitute. Cook county. lent to provide that a large county, in It will probably be better, in order to The CHAIR3AN. It is not usual for connection with one or more contiguous avoid confusion, that the gentleman the Chair to determine a matter to be counties, might constitute a circuit with should offer his substitute as an amecnd- irrelevant unless its irrelevancy clearly three or more judges, as their wants may ment to strike out certain words, and in appears. It is a question to be determined require. But if it is said that a county sert certain others, when there will be no more properly by the committee, upon a with a certain population shall always confusion or misunderstanding. motion to amend. constitute a circuit, there is no flexibility Mr. CUMMINGS. Mr. Chairman: If It is always a delicate matter for the left to it, audit is prescribed for all time, the committee will remember, I did not chairman, or the president of a Conven- beyond the power of the Legislature to move to strike out, but to amend. I have tion, or the speaker of a house, to decide change it. Upon reflection I think it is no disposition to strike out the words. I upon the relevancy of a proposition. In unwise and a departure from first princimerely desire to have the phraseology so this case the Chair decides that it is com- ples in framing an organic law, to say read, that any county having over two petent to minve an amendment of the kind that any county so constituted shall perhundred thousand inhabitants shall com- proposed. petually remain a judicial circuit. pose one judicial circuit. I have no dis- Mr. FULLER. Mr. Chairman: It I wish simply to express my dissent. position to disturb the present judicial seems to me the amendment should not Mr. WAGNER. Mr. Chairman: I system of Cook county. I only want to be adopted. We are nowproviding courts wish to offer this amendment: change this section so that it will be ap- bfor Cook county, and in adopting the Add after the word "circuits," "untilother plicable to any and all counties that may!succeeding sections, we shall prepare a wise provided by the General Assembly." have two hundred thousand inhabitants. judicial system applicable to Cook coun- The question being on the adoption of I do not wish to change the phraseology ty alone. We shall undoubtedly provide the amendment offered by Ir. Wagner a of any of the other sections, except where for the election of seven judges for these division was ordered. it may be imperatively necessary. I am courts, and for justsuch ajudicial system The committee divided, when, there making no thrust at Cook county. I am as shall appear best adapted to the pen- being fifteen in the affirmative and thironly attempting to have the Constitution liar circumstances of Cook county. If ty-four in the negative, the amendment so framed that it will be applicable here- we adopt the amendment proposed, we was not agreed to. after to any county having that number then apply the judicial system that we The Clerk read the amendment offered of inhabitants, believing it may be ne- have provided for Cook county, to any by Mr. Sedgwick, as follows other county as soon ais it shall acquire. cessary to have it so apply.;totker county as soon as it shall acquire Strikc out the words the county of Cook Mr. CAMERON. Mr. C:hairman We l200,000 inhabitants. A system adapted shall be one," and insert-"each county lavare now upon sections relating exclusively to the wants of the people of Cook county, lng a population of two hundred thousand are now upon sections relating exclusioely in their peculiar position and circum- shall be organized into one separate. to Cookade would comeunty, so that the apropostion stances, will not be such as willbe desired Theamendment was not agreed to. . prpri- v any oter couut. Mr lcDOWELLMrChimn ately in so me or ar other upart of theMcdiOWELL. Mr. Chairman:r article, where there would be no objection The courts we shall now provide for Would a motion to stike o fro schatie,'er tho it w bu it is clearly o o f t Cook county will not bc applicable to the tiontwenty-nn o fortytwo, inclusive, whatever to it; but it is clearly out of condition and circumstance, of another of this article, be in order? place in the present connection. I hope,!condition and cicumstance- of another placeintherefoey pren cnne o. I p county that may hereafter have 200,000 The CHIAIRMAN. It would not be therefore, my friend from Fulton [Mr. inhabitants. The consequence will be in order to make a motion in relation to Cummin gs] w ill withdraw his amend- that if we make this and the following subsequent sections when the committee met now, and offer it at anothse ctions applicable to all counties having is considering the article section by se Mr. BROWNING. I rose to make a 200,0o0 inhabitants we shall have to tion. similar suggestion. We can consider at change the Constitution in order to adapt The question being on the adoption of some other time the proposition of the it to another county having a sufficient section twenty-nine, it was agreed to. gentleman from Fulton [lr. Cumings]. number of inhabitants to bring it within The CHAIRMAN. The question is on I think it will be as well to let the see- the provisions of this section, but whose the adoption of the thirtieth section. The tion stand as it is, and have the sugges- circumstances are altogether different, be- Clerk will read the section. tion of the gentleman ~rom Fulton [Mr. cause the courts suitable for Cook county The Clerk read section thirty, as folCummings] incorporated in the thirteenth will not b 3 suitable to that other county lows: section. at that time. And I think under such Src. 30. The circuit court of Cook county Mr. CUMMINGS. Mr. Chairman. circumstances, as we are providing these snail consist of four judges, until their numWith the permission of the committee, I courts for the county of Cook alone, we ber shall be inc eased as herein provided. amendment should aapt them o the cirumstancesThe present judges of the recorder's court of withdraw my a m n mn.sodaapthmtthcicmtne the city of Chicago and the present judge of Mr. ROSS. MIr. Chairman: I offer the of that county, and declare in the first the circuit court o f Co okcounty shall be two following amendment. section that they are only for Cook of said judges and shall remaln in office for The Clerk read the amendment offered county. the terms for which they were respectively by Mr. Ross, as follows: The CRAIRMAN. The question i elected, and until their successors shall be elected and qualified. Two judges of said Add after the word "ciruit," "until other- upon the amend ment offered by the gen- court shalt be elected on the day on which wise provided by law." tleman from DKeIilb [Mr. Sedgwick]. this Constitution shalt be submitted to the Mr. ROSS. Mr. Chairman: I do not FIB. M CE. R Mr. MrChai,rman I do not people foi adoption. think that even Cook county will always mean to aigue the question, but I wish to Mi. COOL, AUGII. Mr. Chairman: I desire that the whole county should re- express my dissent fom the policv of offer the following as a substitute for seemain in one circuit. I think we had bet- prescribing in the Constitution what shall tion thirty, and I will read it: ter leave it in such a shape that if they territorially constitute, duringf the whole See. 30. The circuit court of Cook county should desire it, the Legislature may di- time the Constitution we are preparing shall consist of seven judges, until their vide it up into more circuits. I may exist, a judicial circuit -without nTumbers shatll bedinreased as herein providedf The question b-aing upon the amend- power to change it, or alter it, or adapt Cooi~ county, the present judges of the supemeent of Mr. Ross, a division was ordered.! it to new circumstances. flor court of Chicago, and the present judges The committee divided, when, there be- We have now provided in this article, of the recorder's court of the city of Chicago ingl twenty-four' in the affirmative and so far as it has been adopted for circuits shall be five of said judges, and shall remain mg twenty-four ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~in office for the terms for which'~they were twenty eight in the negative, the amed- which the Legislature in their discretion respectively elected, and until their Receesment was not agreed to.'may create. One provision is for circuits sors shall he elected and qualified. 287 MARcu 11, 1870. 1145 solidation of these courts. Among,st the Mr. HAINES, of Lake. I do not like petitioners whose names have been read, Cook county having more privileges than as the petitions were presented on this any other on this floor, and I object to floor, will be recognized a verylarge pro- the gentleman's going on after his time portion of the leading lawyers of the has expired. county. Mr. HITCHCOCK. Mr. Chairmann: I It is known, I think I may say without trust the substitute of my colleague will any impropriety, that the members of the not be adopted, without the fullest conjudiciary of Chicago are opposed to the sideration. It involves a novel proposiconsolidation; and I believe if it had not tion, it provides for a new, untried, and been known in Chicago that such was the experimental court in the county of fact, three-fourths or more of the mem- Cook. And in order that the committee bers of the Cook county bar would have may understand fully that this is an inpetitioned for the consolidation of these novation, and an innovation, so far as I courts. We all know the reluctancy and can see, without a reason to justify it, it the delicacy that lawyers would natural- is necessary for me to communicate, perly feel in committing themselves, for any haps, to such of the committee as may not proposition against the wishes of the be acquainted with our system, the history presiding officers of the courts in which of the courts, and their organization in they may have cases pending. We all Cook county. know the great influence that judges The superior court of Chicago, which situated in that way would necessarily it is proposed to strike down by this suband naturally have over the minds and stitute, has existed for more than twenty actions of the members of the bar. years. It was organized prior to the I have stated this to confirm, as far as Constitution of 1848. It has, of course, the circumstance goes, the opinion I have existed ever since, and so far as I know expressed, that a large majority of the has performed its judicial functions wvithbar are in favor of the proposition. out any exception having been taken to It will be said by thoseof my colleagues it, on any grounds whatever. No one who differ with me upon the proposition, has been heard to say, that any grievance that the superior court of Chicago has has sprung, or is likely to spring from its been in existence for twenty years or more, organization. We have become accusand should not be needlessly disturbed. tomed to it. The courts of general conThe very fact is patent in Chicago, and current jurisdiction, the circuit and suhence to every prominent member of the perior courts, have performed their duties bar, that a spirit of contention, of bicker- well, wanting only an increase of judicial inig, of jealousy, (I had almost prepared force. myself to say, a disgraceful spirit, of that Now, I understand that we are not here sort) now prevails amongst the judiciary to embark in any novel undertakings of Chicago, growing out of this simple We are here especially not to re-organize question of two courts with concur,ent l the judiciary, except so far as may be Jurisdiction, and of the organization and needful to mneet existing evils. I am surmaintenance of these courts; and that cir- prised that my colleague [Mr. Coolbaugh] cumstance itself is, to my mind, an ample should have taken his seat without pointand a satisfactory reason why these dis- ing the committee to some evil springing tinctions should no longer be tolerated in from the existence of two courts in Cook the city of Chicago. county. It will be a matter of surprise, It is true the superior court of Cook that of all the petitions that have been county has been in existence for about read relating to the organization of courts, twenty years, but it is true, nevertheless, not one has suggested that any evil is to that eight years ago the Constitution of be met )by this change. Now, I put this 1862, adopted by a Convention in this question to the lawyers of this Committee hall, provided for the abolition of that of the Whole, whether they feel any decourt, and for its consolidation with the gree of certainty, whether they feel that circuit court of that county in order to it is fairly probable that a co(urt of seven make that system uniform throughout the judges (end the petitioners desire nine at length and breadth of the State. It is the present time, and in order to perform not within my recollection that any cx- the work which will be requisite to be ception was taken to that in the city of done in that county, the number must Chicago, among either the members of soon necessarily be increased to eleventhe bar or the people. It is true, I believe, it will grow to thirteen, and possibly to that that proposition received the unani- fifteten), can to be made to operate and m ous concurrence of the delegation from perform judicial functions successfully? Cook county, that represented that coun I ask every lawyer accustomed to the tv in the Convention of 1862, among operation of courts, if he is willingto put whom was my respected and honored col- himself upon the record, as experiment. league [Mr. Anthony], now a member of ing in this way, and I especially put it the Judiciary Committee of this Conven- to every delegate upon this floor, whethtion. er he is willing to sanction this propo It is also true, Mr. Chairman, as a mat- sition, and take the consequences, withter of history, that that Constitution of out a reason being assigned for it? ti862 containing a provision which coni The only reason, Mr. Chairman, that solidated these two courts into one under has ever been assigned, is the one given the name of the circuit court, received the by my colleague, namely: that it will itndorsement of a large majority of the bring the system of Cook county into harpeople of the city of Chicago. The Con- mony with the system throughout the stitution itself- State at large. [mH ere the hammer fell]. Gentlemeo, there is but one way in I " Go o!" " go on.!" which you can bring the system of Cook ojjr. COOLBAUGII. I am very grate- county into harmony with the system ful to the committee, but declinle to oc- provided tor the State at large, and that is cupy more than my allotted time. to provide that it shall be divided into sev Mr. CARY. I hope the gentleman eral judicial circuits with Vsingoe judge in m will be induced to finish his remarks. each circuit; or to provide, as in section CONSTITUTIONAL CON'VENTION FI-ZID.&Y 1146 Two judges of said court shall be elected on the day on which this Constitution shall be submitted to the people for adoption. Mr. Chairman: I offer that substitute from what I conceive to be a sense of duty to the people that I have the honor, in part, of representing on this flr)or. it will be seen at once by gentlemen of the committee, that the propositions .contained iii the substitute, involve the consolidation of the circuit and superior 'courts of Chicago. It provides the same number of judges, provided for in the article as reported by the Judiciary Committee. Instead of providing as the article reported by that committee does, for four circuit jud-es, and three superior judges, it provides for a court of seven circuit j udges. It does not, Mr. Chairman, interfere with any j udge now occupying a seat upon the beach in Chicago. It does not .Propose to- interfere in any way with the duties or with the terms of office of those jud(res, other than as provided for in the, section as reported by the Judiciary Cornmittee. It simply proposes to remove the technical distinction which now exists in those cou-ts. They are, as gentlemen of the committee all know, the same in power and the same in jurisdiction. The adoption of my substitute will make the system of circuit courts pro. vided for in the judiciary article, apply the same in Chicago as in other portions of the'State. Mr. Chairman, I have myself read with a good deal of interest and careful attention the report of the committee relating to the, Cook county court, and so far as I am capable, sir, of understanding the question, I believe that it meets the wants and the expectations of the people of Cook county, substantially. I may say that, as an individual member of the Convention, I had supposed, unti I assured to the contrary by members of the bar of Cook county, in whose opinion I have great confidence, that six judges would be competent to do the business of that ,county; but I am assured that that number is too small, and I will, therefore, acquiesce in the number designated by the Committee on the Judiciary, which is seven. I believe that there is no portion of the report that our people will take excf-ptions to. I believe it substantiall meets!, DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS.: only suggests, but states-that this spirit exists, how is it to be cured by putting the judges of the superior bench into the circuit court, as proposed? Each judge will have the jurisdiction and the power of a circuit judge. If that spirit exists to anything like the extent suggested by my colleague [Mr. Coolbaugh], which I deny, if it ex ists at all, I want to know if it is not likely that, when these judges come to gether, it may result in a public griev ance? If one judge of that court should make an order for an injunction, for in stance, might siot another judge, having this feeling which is said to exist among them, wrongfully dissolve that iujunc tion? If one judge issues his process, may not the judge possessed of this hos tility quash the process? I ask if you will remedy the matter, so far as public rights and interests are concerned, by putting all these judges in the circuit court? Ido not wish to be misunder stood. That spirit does not exist to any thing like the extent the gentleman who has taken his seat [Mr. Coolbaugh] sup poses, if it exists at all. Now, of course, if the committee shall choose to do so, it may abolish the supe-. rior court, and provide for but one court for Cook county. I beg only that every gentleman may see that there is some substantial reason for it. This plan has been agreed upon by the immediate rep resentatives of Coo)k county-not unani mously, however- for there are those who disapprove of some parts of it. The plan has been agreed upon by the Judiciary Committee, not unanimously, probably, but by a majority. It proposes a tried system, a system that has worked well, which provides only that there shall be an addition to the judicial force. The profession would undoubtedly prefer that that addition should be larger. Lawyers would prefer that there should be nine judges rather than seven. We have yielded; I have yielded my own convic tions with regard to that, and have assent ed to the plan. In some particulars, I have no doubt, the representatives of that county, as well as the gentlemen from the Judiciary Com mittee, have, in some respects, yielded their convictions, but so far as this par ticular proposition is concerned, I desire only, again, as I take my seat, to ask the committee to consider the reasons for any experiments that may be proposed. Mr. ANTHONY. Mr. Chairman: My colleague [Mr. Hitchcock] has stated to the committee some of the reasons for retiniang this section as a part of the ju diciary system of Cook county. I have been a practitioner in that county for the last eighteen years, and I know some' thing of the system of jurisprudence we have there, and how it is administered i e that county. I desire to say to the com mittec that this plan was drawn up in the early portion of the session of the X xeConvention, and was submitted to mostm of the bar of that county. It was pub lished in the papers, the bar of that county were all invited to make sugges tions in regard to it, and I, myself, saw a large number of them personally. Act ing upon the Judiciary Committee during the sess55ion1 of this Convention, I have endeavored, so far as I could, to ascertain the opinions of the members of the bar of that county, and, on two or;three different c occasions have been to the city of Chicago I I I I MARCII 11) 1870. 1147 thirteen, just approved by the comniittee, that the State be divided into several ci.r cuits with three judges each. Such is the only plan -which will be in harmony with the system that has been provided for the State at large. This plan of a single court, with judges s numerous as a j ury, is an anomaly. It is as great an anomaly as the existence of two courts in the county. It is not only an anomaly, but it is an experimental anom aly. Now, gentlemen, that it is an untried system is sufficient, I apprehend, to induce its rejection. But I cannot take my seat without referring to some statements that were made by my colleague. I-le says that you are petitioned to make this change. The petitions have rested uni, formly and solely upon the ground that the petitioners desire to apply the prin ciple of minority representation, a principle which yet remains, to some extent, witl-iin the domain of theory, to the courts of Cook county. Are you prepared to accept this proposition of the petitioners? And would it be safe to apply it to the court of that county? Would it be safe to apply it to so large a court as proposed by the petitioners? These gentlemen, I apprehend, do not desire simply that the superior court should be stricken down. They do not desire to take the chances of it, unless their proposition can be accompanied with some plan of a minority election of judges of the court. Now, it is said, there may be some reserve oil',,he part of lawyers in presentiiig their grievances. It is said that the practitioners before the courts of Cook county may feel some decree of liesitatif).,i in coming before this body witl-i a statement of the evils of the existidg system. It is not the habit of lawyers to nurse their grievances and decline to bring them before the public. If it were their habit, the P.-ewspapers are cor. t,,iinlv open to them. These channels of communication will receive anonymous complaints in regard to grievances; aad I ask gentlemen if they have seen in the newspapers which have been discussing this question, a single,ugestion that telex public or the profession are aggrieved by the existence of these two courts in Cook county? to consult with the members of the bar. I heard uothi.Dg of the deep-rooted hos tility of the judges towards each other, which my colleague [ivlr. Coolbaug]-i] has referred to, and I must say, 31r. Chairma-n, I was somewhat suprised to learn of the existence of such a state of thidgs as he states. I know the judges of the superior court and the circuit court. The provis ions of the report were submitted to those judges, who all agreed to it, so far as I understood, and I supposed, until within a few days, that our plan was satisfactory to the great majority of the lawyers. I have no more interest in this matter than any other member of the Chicag,) bar, for I can get alorg with any court or system of courts that any other lawyer can, and I have no other motive whatever than to establish the best system we can. As I have said, I supposed that this report would be perfectly satisfactory to the bar of that county. The first note of dissatisfaction that I heard, Mr. Chairman, was oi — the day when this jud-ciary article was taken up. A petition then was presented bv my colleague [Mr. Coolbauo,ii], who has proposed the substitute under consideration. Now, sir, what do these gentlemen of the bar, who send their -petitions here, desire? That the superior court should be abolished? They may desire that, but that is not all. Some of these gentlemen want judges to hold during good behavior. Others have given reasons-but not a single grievance is stated to this bodywhy the superior court should be stricken down. They state no grievances, they complain of no abus(-,s, they simply want a change. I have practiced in that court, as I stated a moment ago, eighteen years, and I undertake to say, that it has given as much satisfaction as any court ever erected in the United States. The judges are as learn ed and honest as the judges of any court in this country. My colleague [Air. Coolbaughl says that he is only carrying out the wishes of the majority of that bar. I deny the statement. I say he is mistaken. These petitioiis that hav.-, been presented by him have been in circulation for many days. Oii the day when the first petition was presented, I wrote a letter to a leading member of the bar, stating that to my CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION in the French courts, where they have deavored to be guided as far as possible something like twenty-seven judges upon by their judgment and experience in one bench transacting all sorts of judicial making up my own opinion. I may add and governmental duties. Whenever gen- to this that I have not felt disposed to oftlemen have been asked to take seven fer any suggestions in relation to the sysjudges and organize a court with five or tem ofjudiciary, which is to be extended six panels of jurors, when they have been to the State at large, for I have been asked to put the machinery in motion, aware from the first that there was a very they have signally failed to grant the re- general disposition on the part of the quest. members of this Convention, to make a In a city like ours we want a choice of separate provision for the wants of the courts. We ought to have two courts county that I have the honor in part to If the system proposed by my colleague represent. In view of these facts I have [MIr. Coolbaugh] were to prevail, we refrained from taking any part in the diswould have in our court house a march- cussion of any provision of the judiciary ing and counter-marching equal to that article. of a "general training day." Judges, I rise now, sir, with extreme reluctance. when elected to the bench, are not like Two of my colleagues, [Mr. Hitchcock employes of railroads, that can be hired and Mr. Anthony], both of them eminent and discharged. There are few men who, practitioners at the Chicago bar, have as chief justice, possess the executive taken, upon the question beforeus, aposiability to take charge of and run such a tion which I cannot indorse. I would concern as that. not under any circumstances, undertake Now, I desire this committee to under- to gainsay anything that they have adstand that these courts have performed vanced were it not for the fact, that I their duties well, and that we have never have often been impressed with the belief, heard any complaint, so far as the judges that sometimes the outside view of an obon the bench are concerned, or so far as ject may be more correct than the inside the administration of justice in those re- view; and, notwithstanding the ability spective courts is concerned. and experience of my colleagues, I cannot Every petition that comes here asks us forget in this connection, that they are to increase the number of judges. The themselves moving, as it were, in the inpetitioners want nine judges instead of ner circles of thejudiciary affairs of Cook the number that we have proposed, among county, and being fallible men, as we all other things. Now, we have the re- are, are liable to their preference and corder's court there, and if we were to their prejudices in such a matter. I cantake them at thieir word, some of these not allow my own feelings, however, to petitioners would want simply nine desermine my action. I am here to disjudges, to do the probate business, the charge my duty, to represent the wishes criminal business and all the civil busi- and the interests of my constituents, and Nless of that city. personal friendships must not interfere INow, sir, from our experience ina the with the course I feel it incumbent upon matter, I am inclined to think that it i me to pursue. might be a disaster as well as experi- I can give a full and honest indorsement, to strke down this superior court, ment to every word that has been uttered that we have had for twenty-five years, by my colleague [Mr. Coolbaugh]. The and inaugurate the new system. As my section reported in the judiciary article colleague [Mr. Hitchcock] says, it is very does not, in my judgment, meet the wishes easy for gentlemen to rise in their places or provide for the interests of the people here, and say, "Strike down the superior of Cook county. I have not had an opcourt-strike that section out," but when, portunity of learning the opinion of all has the substitute been proposed that the people of Cook county, on the subject will meet all the exigencies of that city before us, although I have had as good of 350,000 inhabitants? I undertake to opportunities of knowing their views as say that a just emulation between courts any of my colleagues have had. I assert is as good a thing as it is between indi- it to be a fact that a majority of the bar viduals, but my opinion is that if we are opposed to this article under discuswere to put seven men upon the bench, sion, and I am satisfied that in all matters there would be always more or less fac- pertaining to courts, the gentlemen of the tion among them. Some would fall into bar lead, in that respect, public opinion. lax habits, and seven judges would not be If, therefore, a majority of the bar of Chiable to perform as much work as the same cago are opposed to this provision, it is number of judges in two courts. proof to my mind that a majority of the Now, MKr. Chairman, these are some of people are opposed to it. the reasons why I desire to stand by the Now, I do not desire to reflect upon my report as made. It seems to me that the | colleagues for any of the remarks that reasons are overwhelming for doing so, they have advanced, but I think there and therefore it is that I am opposed to has been some unfairness shown in the striking out-' notice taken of the petitions that have [Here the hammer fell.] ibeen presented here, and I ask the atten Mr. CAMERON. Mr. Chairman. I| tion of the committee, fora few minutes, think the committee will bear me out in to the facts in the case. the assertion, that I have not been for- I would ask first of all, who are the ward to intrude myself upon their atten- petitioners? Who are these gentlemen tion while subjects pertaining to the ju- who have addressed this Convention, and diciary have been under consideration. asked that the substitute which has been I have desired from the first to pay that offered by my colleague [Mr. Coolbaugh] deference which I believe to be due to the be accepted in preference to the section opinions of the many eminent legal gea- reported? They are men who are emitlemen upon this floor who have spoken nent in their profession. They are gen. upon questions as they have arisen, and tlemer, one and all of them, I believe, who are more competent to review the morally, socially and intellectually, the various propositions th have been equals of gentlemen upon this floor. brought before us, than I am. I have en- Sucta, I venture to say, is the character s s t 8 t i i FRIDAY, 1148 and standing of the parties who have ad. dressed us upon this question; men pos. sessing as large and as ripe experience as any gentleman who has spoken, or can speak upon this subject. They are practitioners at the bar. They speak of a subject of which thev are well advised. Now, how many of them are there? There are, I believe, at present, about two hundred and forty members of the Chicago bar, one hundred and twelve of which number, nearly half the number of practitioners in the Chicago courts, come here, asking this Convention not to accede to the proposition presented to us in the report of the Judiciary Committee. How did we receive these petitions? Under what circumstances were they brought before us? I will say for myself, and I believe the statement will be indorsed by my colleague [Air. Cooibaugh], that we were ignorant of the fact that any petitions were being prepared. Mty colleague [Mr. Anthony] states, that the petition that was introduced by him in favorof two courts came here through his own instrumentality, that he wrote to parties to have that petition prepared and forwarded for presentation to this body, apprehensive apparently, that unless efforts were put forth, so little interest was there felt, his side of the case would go by default; but it was not so in the case of the other petitions. They came here unexpectedly, unasked for and unsought. The petitions are the spontaneous expression of opini ons of gentlemen whose views we cannot afford safely to disregerd. There is another point to which I wish to call the attention of the committee, and that is that there has been an attempt made to give this matter a partisan tinge. We find it in the reports in the newspa pers, and to some extent in the remarks of my colleagues. For myself, I can only say that I have endeavored to free myself in this, as in all other matters, of all par. tisan bias. How far I have succeeded in this, it will remain for others to deter mine. Reference has been made to party indirectly by intimations, that it is sought to apply the minority representation sys tem to the election of judges. We have no such proposition before us; but if we find th,t it is necessary to adopt minority representation in the election of judges, what is the objection? Have we not as good lawyers in Cook county, who, in politics may be democrats, as are found in the ranks of republicanism;u gentlemen of as good ability, as learned in their profession, of as spotless moral integrity, as can be found anywhere? Are such to be forever ostracised on account of their political opinions? M~r. ANT:HONYr. I drew no such comparisons whatever, Mr. Cairman. Mr. CAMERON. I do not insinuate treat my colleague did, bult I am doing it for him. I am stating facts that he cannot question, and should not overlook. I am saying that it is unfair to make an .objection, swhere no room for an objection exists. If a competent democrat Ishould occasionally be elevated to the Lbench, by means of minority representation, it would be, in my opinion, a simple act of justice. Now, sir, i cannot see the reason fo} my colleague [Mr. Anthony] taking such a different position in Aphis Convention - from that taken by him in the Convert MAO 11 80 EAE -D?OEDNS14 the functions of a court in some manner. The judges of that court adapted to the equity branch of the law, whose tastes, whose reading should happen to l)e most largely in that line, would be assigned by mutual consent to that de partment. Another of like character istics, and tastes to the same. A judge adapted to the criminal department, to trying criminal cases, would be assigned to that business. Another, perhaps of like characteristics to the same. A judge adapted to the settling of pleadings, the formation of the issues to be tried, would be assigned that department. A judge adapted to the trial of issues before a jury would be assigned to that labor. The comity, courtesy existing among them, that a lways exists among intelligent courts and judges, would enable them so to regulate and conduct the affairs of the court, that for all practical and useful purposes, it would be seven circuit couits fo)r Cook county, with this evident advan tage, they could consult together when doubtful questions arose. On applications for ilnjunction, mandamus, or other ques tions of importance, as a matter of course, of common courtesy, they would consult each other upon questions of doubt, and wehen the one judge acted, it would sub stanltially be the voice of the-whole, or of the majority of the court. It never would happen unit ss, unfortunately, such a pecu liar condit'on of things should happen to exist in Chicago as has,xisted in New York, arising out of its being the money center and railroad stock center, that there could be any collision between the judges of the c,ourt. But the same collision might exist when there were different courts estab lished, and it would be more likely to occur. Practically, when action is taken uponi questions of large importance and ot doubt, the action of one judge would be the voice of all, or the majo)rity, and the question would then be settled so far as that court was concerned. I can see nothing that would necessarily pievent the smooth and harmonious working of the court as now proposed. It is in har mony, so far as practicable, with the sys tem adopted through our State, and does propose to aff,)rd those ample facilities i,for the admioistration of justice in the c,)u,lty of Cook, which it is our duty to afford to every portion of the State. 1 shall vote for the substitute offered tby the gentleman from Cook [Mr. Cool baugh]. Mr. BENJAMIN. Mr. Chairman: As Jar as minority representation is concerned, I do not see why it is not as applicable to each one of these proposed courts as to a single court. If I correctly i understand that principle, it could be ap plied to a court cinsisting of four Judges, the circuit coucot, and also to a court con- g sisting of three judges, the superior court. And therefi&re I do not consider that the argument with regard to minority repren senJtati&)n ought to have much weight given to it in the discussion of this question. Again,it has been suggested by the genrt tieman from Adams [Mr. Skinner] that the judges would naturally divide their labor. Is it not equally true that they can do this whether we provide for two courts or but one? Court practice is generally divided into criminal, common law and chancery. In one of these courts we have three judges, in another we have MARCII 11, 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1149 tion of 1862. At that time he was not in favor of the continuance of the superior court, but was in favor of its consolida tion with the circuit court. What has come about in the meantime to make the superior ci)urt so necessary, and what was there about the court at that time to re quire its suppression? Its character has been indorsed, and I do not call it in question. It has been presided over by able, honest and impartial judges. It has beon so from the first. Yet eight years ago my colleague sought himself to do what he now censures others for attempting to do. The reasons that are urged in favor of a consolidation of the courts of Cook countv, in my judgment, justify the ask iDg tfiat it be done. If there is one idea Lnore than another, that we have elideavored to eiigraft prominently upon the Coiistitution that we are now forming, it is the idea th, at hereafter we must adopt a system of general laws which shall be applicable to all parts of the State alike. Now, sir, we have decided that we will adopt a system of circuit courts. Why can it uot be carried to the county of Cook and the city of Chicago? No one can for a moment doubt that rivalry between courts of equal jurisdiction does exist at all times, to some extent; and if I were to express my opinion, I should say that tnere is something of this at the bottom of this whole matter-tlle rivalry of the judges for eminence in their respective courts. [Here the hammer fell Mr. SKINNER. Mr. Chairman: As a ir,einber of the Judiciary Committee, I desire to say it was the evident wish of every member of the committee to adopt in the report such provisions in regard to Cook county courts as, upon advictj with the members of the committee from that couiity, consistently with our own sense of right, we could adopt, trusting largely to their knowled-e of the want s of their county and their experience as lawyers. In making the report, every effort was made to meet the views of the dcl( —gatt.'s from Cook county, so far as they c(,uld be ascer ait-,ed, and I can say tljat this was the ruling idea. As it .now liapl;eus that the delegation is dividc-d, it becomes necessary for each member to exercise his best judgment, and four, and th(-refore the labors of these courts could be distributed according to the tastes of the respectivejudges. But there is one reason which operates upon my mind, and persuades me to fa vor the establishment of two courts in stead of one, and it is this-that the es tablisbment of two courts will enable parties bringinl, suits to select their own tribunal. And-not only that,.but it will also, in certain cases, afford an opportu nity for a chai) —e of -enue upon the part of defendants, ithout going outside the county of Cook. As a matter of practice, I am persuaded that it would be a great convenience to the practicing attorneys of Cook county'' whenever it might become necessary to have a change of venue, in order to pro tect the rights of their clients to take such a change, (aDd in a majority of cases it could be taken) without going outside the county. It is true there will be cases where it will be necessary to go outside the county, but in a majority of cases, if there are two courts established in the coudty,, a change of venue could be taken from one court to the other. 1 can readily see that unless we make provision for two courts, the circuit courts of the adjacent counties might be overwhelmed with business, by reason of changes of venue. I do not know-the gentlemen have not, as yet, expressed themselves upon the subject' whether the e-tleman from 9 Lake [Mr. Hai the gentleman from McHenry [Mr. Church], the gentleman from Kane [.Mr. Wheaton], the gentleman from DuPage [Mr. Cody], the gentleman from Will [Mr. Goodhue], desire to havo their circuit courts crowded with cases from the county of Cook; but if I resided in either of those couinties, I should very, much desire that there should be two courts of concurrent jurisdiction in the coui.ity of Cook, as a matter of self-pro. tection. Mr. CHTJRCH. Mr. Chairman: Perhaps, as something has been said upon this question by one member of the Judiciary Committee, also, I believe, by a laymail [looking at Mr. BeDjaniiu], it might iiot be considered improper for a man outside ()f Chicacro to say a word upon the sub,j ect. 115 CO-~TOA ~NETO RDY done), and that the Chicago court has been in being ever since, the name o nly having been changed to the " Cook court of common pleas"-still with one judge, and finally, as the business required, to the'superior court of Chicago," with three judges provided for it. It is generally believed that two courts of concurrent jurisdiction can better tre nsact business than one court with so many judges. I believe that such is the case. I have not heard an objection raised to that mode of organization until recently. The discussion was only on retaining the name -whether it should be two courts, both being "circuit courts," covering the same territory each to consist of three judges, and distinguished by number or some other way, so that each may be kept separate in respect to practice and Rauner of keeping records. How many times shall we he asked to make this change? There is no difference in principle. The operationof the thing must be the same. How many times shall we be asked to change the names of these courts when nothirg else is sought? I am fully satisfied that when this report was made, it met the views of the Cook county delegation, the Chicago bar and the Chicago.judges, and as far as we had been informed, the candidates. It is only two or three minutes that I desire to speak, Mr. Chairman, to make up for the time that I gave away. [,,Go on."] Mr. Chairman: The suggestion of the gentleman from McLean [Mr. BeL:jamin] is certainly in point. The county that i represent adjoins the county of Cook. We do suffer some by changes of venue from Cook county. Whatever can be done in the organization of their courts,, that shall prevent changes of venue, and keep their causes at home, I desire to have done. The organization of the two courts there, will, in a measure, prevent that, although perhaps not entirely. There are lawyers from the country round about, who have been accustomed to practice some little in Chicago. I my self, had some practice there some years ago, both in the old Cook county court )of common pleas, and the superior court of Chicago. Now, sir, I believe that the members of the bar, from the country round about, can better follow up their record by retaining that name, than to have the whole blended now in one stu penduous "circuit court," coamencing with seven judges, and running on to an unlimited number, as the growth of Chi cago shall require hereafter; because we concede in all our debates, that Chicago is going steadily up to a million, and that too in a very short time. I hope, sir, that the report of the Judi ciary Committee, in this regard, will be sanctioned by the Committee of the Whole. Mr. MEDILL. Mr. Chairman: So far as the delegation from Cook county is concerned, it is manifest that we will have to appeal to the members of the Committee of the Whole, as jurors, to de cide the question between us. The Com mittee of the Whole have already discov ered that we are not united in our views. Neither are the people of Chicago united in their views on this matier, the reason being that we really do not know which is the best plan. It is simply a question of a difference of opinion. Every mem ber of the bar or suitor is desirous that CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION Fp,.IDAY; 1150 therefore the name would not be a proper one, while one would have a higher soutidiDg title than the other. The decision of the committee was to conform as far as possible to the wishes of the people-of thejudgesandlawyersofchicago. After remainidgin doubt forsome time, the committee finally settled down upon this report, and have reported the superior court as it has existed for so many year, and reported the circuit court, as it has always existed, except tha 0 O.Usist of seven judges. Now, it has been remarked by one of the gentlemen from Cook [inir. Cameron] that tb peolyle have asked to have the judicial system of the State applied to Chicago. I do not believe that will be repeated by him, nor by any other gentleman from Chicaoo. It is practically im possible. Do these gentlernen desire to have the population of Cook county cut UD into SiDgIC circuits, a-s- the remainder of the Siate is? Mr. CANIBRON. Mr. Chairman: Will the gentleman yield a moment? Mr. CHURCH. I will; certainly. Mr. CAiNlERON. Alr. Chairman: I would call the attention to the fact that', we have already provided that Cook county I shall be one judicial circuit. IlaViDg provided this, the remark just made by the gentleman does not apply. We seek conformity, as far as practicable, with the circuit court system which we propose for the State at large. Mr. CHURCH. Mr. Chairman: The gentleman will see we have already departed from the j udicia-I system reported iloi, the 5t4t, which provid(-,s that there shall be judicial circuits,, in each of which there shall be one j u(ige elected. We have provided that Cook county shall be one judicial circuit; but all the members of the Cook county delegation, ani.J all the petitioners ask us to give them more than one judge for that circuit. There fore, I say we have already departed from the j,4clicial system adopted fur the State, can see many reasons in 9, practical, bur,',,,iess point of view, as well as a mat ter of taste and reminiscence, why the members of the Chicago bar might desire to retain even the name of "superior ,Qourt," as well as its practical bene fits this Convention shall select the best plan. My friends on the left [Mr. Coolbaugh and inlr. Cameron] think that a consolidation of all the judges into one circuit court is the better course. The President of the Convention [Mr. Hitchcock] and my friend on the right [Mr. Authony] think differently. Now, I have tried for months past to form a decisive opinion about this question. I have formed an opinion, but not adecisiveode. Mybestjudgmei.itis,that it wold be better to let the superior c(-)urt stand with the equal jurisdiction which the article - pr()poses to confer upon it. In considering this question, the commiti,ee -tiiust n( t overlook the fact that the courts of Cook ci)urty, to a certain extent, are courts of the whole State. A very large plrcentage of all the litigation in that county, co-nes from other portions of the State. People from every section of Illinois are either plaintiffs or defendants in our courts. All, therefore, have an interest, not quite so great as ours, but still a large aild increasing interest in having these courts properly constituted and properly officered. It is, therefore, not a merely local question-and that is the point I wish to impress on the Convention. Every member on this fli)or has a considerable interest, as a representative of his constituents, in the construct,'-on of the Cook c-)uijty courts. FrQm every constituency represented here, more or less litigation is transacted i-n our courts. The number of cases introduced last year was over eight thousand five kundred, and the annual increase is very rapid. Shall we attempt to have all that mighty volume of law business performed in one court? Can not the business be transacted more rapidly, t.,fficiently, and more satis f.-Actorily, by keeping this distinction be tween the superior and circuit courts, which has existed there for nearly a qtiar ter of a century? In my judgiilent, two courts will work faster and better than one. In effect, if we retain the "superior court," we shall have two districts, with an invisible line running through the territory. Every suitor can select the district, as it were, in which he chooses to bring his action. The business can all be transacted in the same court house buildino,, but suitors wilt have a choice of,courts, and attorneys will have MAO ii 180 DEAE X)POCEIG.15 wilhv;ehp ilo fpol ndvdas n el hscmiteta imnfo dm M.Sinr as dividuals. And I tell this committee that it will be, in my judgment, a great mistake if you throw into hotch potch all of the courts in my county. I respect the opinions of my colleague [Mr. Coolbaugh] on a great many subjects; and I cannot, on account of my own experience, admit that his, in regard to the administration of justice, is superior to those of us who have made it the busiiness of our lives. It has been my profession for years. Ihave no other. I have observed the practice of law in all its phases, and I say to gentlemen upon this fl()or that those of us who have followed that profession, have learned something of the effect upon the community, regarding the dispatch of business of one or more courts. Why do gentlemen want to strike this court down? Give me a reason for it. They talk about uniformity! What is uniformity? When they have reduced Cook county to the same number of inhabitants that now "exist" in White county; whena they have taken out of that county the amount of litigation that will make what is left equal to White county, then they may talk about unLiformity. I was struck with the gentleman who wanted to strike out everything in regard to Cook county. I was struck with the remark of the gentleman from White [Mr. McDowell], when he said in this Convention that Cook county was entitled to no consideration at the hands of this Convention. I asked myself, in God's name, what it is that Cook county has done, that men will come to a Constitutional Convention, rise in their places, and make such a statement. Is it envy or malice that actuates them-or what is it? The system of courts which we are now talking about, we have had for over a quarter of a century, but all that goes for nothing; "Strike it down," says one; "Let us have uniformity," says another. I say to gentlemen here, that there is no such thing as uniformity, except by making it upon the same principle by which the French Emperor secured peace in his empire-reducing things to a desert and calling it peace. The business of the people of the city of Chicago must be attended, the same as the business of any other place. If we have more business than gentlemen from other counties, shall we be punished for it? Why should this thing be done? I know of no reason. I can think of no reason. The gentleman, my colleague [Mr. Coolbaugh], says he undertakes to say that it is the wish of the majority of his people. How does he know that any better than I do? He does not. He does not know any beter than I do; and I undertake to say that if a meetisrg of the Chicago bar was called to-day, those who are in favor of retaining the two courts would beat these gentlemen. There is, I think, no doubt about it. I have made it my business to i consult many gentlemen every time I have gone there. The petition that was sent to me, and which I presented here, f was headed by the name of Mr. Beckwith, and signed by a great many who have lived in our city for the last quarter of a century. I ask, what reason will you give to the ; people of the State for striking down n this court? Why, the only reason we - have heard given is, it makes, as the gen i t I i e t t s t t t c c c c t t I I i t I I I i M.&RCH 11 18,70. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 115i will have perhaps a million of people iii Cook county, and it may require the services of twentv or more judges to attend to its law business. Is it best, I ask gentlemeu on this floor, who are lawyers, to open the door and invite this evil? Is it not better to give us two doors to the temple of justice? Where one side of the court gets the reputation of not acting fairly or expeditiously, the other side will obtain the class of business that is neglected or iniproperly transacted, and that wi'tl have the,uffect of correcting the cause of complaiut. I have no interest in this matter more than aijy other citizen. I try to keep out of these courts as much as possible, and when I get in, I ask only for justice and fair play. looking at the subject from my standpoint as a citizea who may be suitor or defendant, I think it would be f)r the interest of that county and of all the counties to preserve the duplication in our courts now existing. I believe the business would be transacted faster, better and more satisfactorily, and that we would avoid many an-no'y;.ng and darnagi-Dg contingencies that might happen if all our judges should be con solidated under one organizatiOD, and fall under one domineering will. Aiid yet, if the judoment of tl-ie Committee of the Whole is that it is better on the whole to consolidate them and tak(. the chatices, I shall make no serious opposition to it, fL)r my own constituents are divided on this subject, and I only speak for a part-I do not know how large a -part. I believe that the pet)ple.of Cook county will cheerfully accept whatever the j udgme-ut of this Convention is; differing as they do in opinion, they will accept what this Convention may decree, for none of them can say that they are confident one plan is decidedly preferable to'the other. For my own part I shall vote to retain the superior court. 31r. ANTHONY. 31r. Chairman: I wish to call the attention of the committee to olie fact, and that is, that when this judiciary article was taken up, one of the very fir,t amendments made to it, was to provide that the smaller courts, exiStiDg in the various cities and towns of this State, should be preserved. The justice of that provision was admitted on all tleman from Adams [Nlr. Skinner] says, 11 uniforinity,"-in what? The gentleman from McHenry [Mr. Church] -demonstrates, as clearly as the sun, that there is no such thing as uniformity about this. We must have courts, I repeat, to do our business; uniformity or no uniformity, we must have judges enough to do, ()r business, and if it required a dozen to Rio it I would ask this Committee of the 'lvhole to give them to us. I would ask nothing more than that. We are inaugurating here no new system; we simply ask you to let us alone, let us have the courts that we have had for the, last quarter of a century. The superior court" was originally called the Cook county court," and was in existence at the time of the formation of our present Constitution. In 1857, when our business demanded more judges, its name was changed, and it was called the superior court of the city of Chicago with jurisdiction concurrent with the circuit court. I want this committee to understand this matter fully. That court has worked well. I never heard a single protest uttered against the system unti I the day the judiciary rep,)rt was set down for hearing in this Committee of the Whole. Althouh it had been before gentlemen for weeks -and weeks, not a word was said against it until the day it was set down for final hearing. I call attention to the fact that this Oommittee of the Whole has established the principle of retaining all these courts. Mr. COOLBAUGH. Mr. Chairman: I desire to say a few words in reply to the remarks of my collea%ue [Mr. AnthODY]. I will not occupy the oor three minutes. I desire to correct what I really think to be wrong, in respect to the statements he has made, because if not corrected they will make an erroneous impression on the winds of the committee in regard to the sentiments of the bar of Cook county. I understand the gentleman to differ with me, in the opinion I have expressed as to their position. I have no earthly interest in these opinions, nor is there auy thing in them to bias my judgment. I understand him to differ with me in the position that a majority of the bar of Cook county are in favor of but one court, and that he has no earthly doubt that if the question were to be submitted to a vote of the -bar, five-sixths of its members p 1162 coNSTITUTIONAL CO~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~V~~~~~TIO~~~~~ SATURDAY,~~~~~~~~~~ the roll with the intention, it seemed to me, of putting me before the committee as drawing iLnvidious comparisons, it was doing me great injustice, and was an argument, I think, which should not have been made except in a case of It st resort. What I meant to say, and did say was, that a number of gentlemen whose names were on that petition were new comers. I do not intend to draw any invidious comparison between the signers of the two petitions. What I meant and said was, that if a public meeting were called, and this matter was canvassed by the bar, there would, in my opinion, be five to -one against the one-court project. My reason for so stating is, that 1 have been told by several who signed the gentleman's petition that they cares nothing about it. Aud, as I stated before, I believe that if the question were to be submitted to a vote, many of them would vote in favor of retaining the courts just as they stand, and against making the experiment of one court. Mr. Chairman: What I meant to say was, that if a public meeting were called, this subject canvassed, and fully investi. gated, in my opinion five sixths of the bar would be in favor of having our courts stand exactly as they are. Jr. TINCHER. Mr. Chairman: I move the committee do now rise, report progress, and ask leave to sit again tomorrow at half-past ten o'clock. The motion was agreed to. ADJOURNMENT. Mr. TINCHER. Mr. President: I move that the Convention do now adjourn. The motion was agreed to. So the Convention (at five o'clock and forty-five minutes) adjourned. ing. On the o10th ist. I had o cca sion t o make a ten minutes' speech with reference to the size of the judicial circuits. Subsequent to that, a number of gentlemen spoke on the subject, and especially the gentleman from Jo Daviess [Mr. Cary], who made some remar ks personal to myself, to which I took no exceptions at the time. On the production of the Convention Journal, I find that his speech has been very care ully interpolated with remarks never made by him, that go to myself and to this Convention. The objectionable feature that I find in them is this: And from mature deliberation, I doubt not that if our next president is chosen from Illinois, he will be taken from Whiteside [iaughter], unless he is elected by the democrats, when he would probably be taken from Lake. [Renewed laughter.] But I am lor Whiteside. [Laughter.] Those words of "laughter," "renewed laughter," "laughter," have been interpolated, and two other instances of the salr e kind occur in this speech — the words "The venerable gentleman from W titeside." I have no objection to any remarks made by any gentleman upon this floor. But when a genitlemau is making personal remarks as against me, if I do not propose to rejoin, or put in a rejoinder to the remarks, anid let him go as not being worthy of my consideration, I do not propose that any addition shall be made by way of interpolation after the speech has been made and given out by the re. porters. Mr. HAINES, of Lake. Mr. Chairman: Will the gentleman allow me, for the purpose of explanation Mr. McCOY. In one moment. I believe I have the floor. I do not suppose the gentleman from Jo Daviess [Mr Cary] has done this. I have no personal question with him, ard therefore I do not make it a personal matter. But I take it that this interpolation has been a kind of interlude, i-i,ocettly, possibly made up, put in by the reporters as a kind of relief to the gentleman's speech. But I do not want it to go out to the cout,try in this nmannier, fior the reason that it is rather a heavy joke (-oji the good judgment of the members of this ConiveLitio,J. That is all. REPORTS OF STANDING CO' AMITTEES. The PRESEIDENT:1. Reports from standing comm~ittees are now infolder. I~AJORITY REPORT OF THE COMMITTEE OX FsEDERAL RELATION~S. Mr. PEiRCE. Mr. President: The Commaitt~ee oil Federal RelatioDs, hlaving had under consideration the prop~,stionsl ,,fiered by the gentleman from Cro.ok [Mr. Anlthon:y], beg leave to report the fi)lto)winjg, and ask their adoption as a separate article in the Conlstitutionl: ARTICLE-~. SECTION i. The State of Illinois shall be and lorever remain one of the United states of Amlerica, and a member of the American federal union, and no power exists in the p~eople of lhis or any other State of the Federal union to secede o~r dissolve their connlecation therewith, or perform any act tending to imp pair, subvert or resist the supreme authority of the United States. SE~C. 2. Every citizen of the State owes paramount allegiance to the Constitution and government of the United States* and the laws and treaties made in pursuance thereof, shall be the supreme law of the land. S3X.c. 3. The Constitution of the United States confers full powers on the federal gov-~ the other day, and which are familiar to most of the member s of this committee, disprove the statem ent, tha t they are either new comers, or u ndistinguished members of the ba r. But let me a nalyze t ha t list a little. Among the petitioners to this Convention in favor of but one court is the Hon. James L. Stark, who was the competitor for the seat on this floor, of my colleague [Mr. Anthony], on the republican ticket. [Laughter. J Another petitioner is L. L. Bon d, an eminent attorney of Chicago, chairman of the Judiciary Committee of the last house of representatives-competitor of my colleague- [Mr. Haines] for a seat -on this floor. Can he be called a new comer? Another, sir, is Hon. J B. Bradwell, a man who has practiced law in that city for a quarter of a century, and who competed with your honor [Mr. Hayes] for the same office, and I am happy to say unsuc cessfully. Another, Mr. Chairman, is General Thompson, a republican lawyer, who competed with the honorable President of this Convention [Mr. Hitchcock], for a seat on the floor of this Convention. Among other men who have petitioned, sir, is R. W. Smith, who was of sufficient consequence, two years ago, to receive the republican nomination in Cook county as their candidate for recorder against Judge McAllister. Another, sir, is Hon. J. C. Knickerbocker, a distinguished member of the Legislature, who was the republican candidate for judge of the county court at the last election. Is he an unknown man? Is Mr. M'Cagg-au eminent lawyer of long standing —unknown? Or Mr. Robert T. Lincoln, son of the late President of the United States —though not an old, yet a distinguish, d lawyer-is he an unknown man? So I might go on, sir, with the whole list. I only desire that the character and position of the gentlemen of the bar of Cook county who have petitioned this Convention in favor of one court, shall not be misrepresented or undervalued on this floor. Mr. TINCHER. Mr. Chairman: I move that the committee now rise. I wish these Cook county gentlemen to have a fair chance to refresh themselves for a renewal of their mutual courtesies in the morning. [Laughter]. ["Question" "Question." "No." "No."] 'rhe CHAIRMAN. The question is on the motion that the committee do now rise, report progress, and ask leave to sit again. lthe motion was declared agreed to. ["Division!" "..Division!"J Thle CHAIRMAN. Gentlemen will take their seats. The Chair will state the question again. The question is, shall the committee rise, report progress, and ask leaveto sit again. A division was o)rdered. The committee divided, when there being twenty-two in the affirmative and thirty-six in the negative, the motion Was ant agreed to. Mr. ANTHONY. Mr. Chairman: To the speech inl laudation of the signers of that petition, I will say one word in reply I designed in nothing I said to draw awny comparison between the signers of the respective petitions. I know those genltlemien. I have associated with them, and am associated with them at the bar. They are gentlemen of character and re-~ mpectability. When the gentlemnan called. SATURDAY, March 12, 1870. The Convention met at ten o'clock, A. M., and was called to order by the President. PRAYER. Prayer was offered by the Rev. Mr. Scott, of Sprinlgfl Id, as follows: Great God, our Heavenly Father, we adore Thee for all Thou art and all Thou hast done for us, as a race and as individuals. We b ess Thee, above all, for that greatest and best gilt, the channel and earnest of all Tijy other gifts, the gift of Thy dear Son as a propitiation of sin. We thank Thee that thou hast preserved us through another night, and that Thy servants have been permnitte(i to meet to together under circumstances so comfortable. We pray God that Thou wouldst pieside over them in the duties of this day. May they be able to discharge their duties in sueh a way as shall be to the best inrterest of this great State. And do Thou, Heavenly Father, preserve them and their families from all strokes of disease and death, and may they meet those at home, at the close of their term here, in health and safety. We pray Thee that Thou wouldst enable them to discharge their duties lhere and now in such a way as will meet the approbation of a good conscience and of Thee, their Judge, at their final trial. And when their labors on earth are ended may they be admitted at last to Eternal Glory, through Christ our Redeemer. Amen. READING OF THE JOURNAL. The Secretary Xead the journal of the last day's proceedings. QUESTION OF PRIVILEGE. Mr. McCOY. Mr. President- I rise, sir, to a privileged question this morn-. CONSTITUTIONAL CONYENTION SATURDAY, 1162 SIXTY-THIRD DAY. MAROII 12, 1870. DEBATES AD P1ocEEDIGS- 1153 molded into harmony with the new ideas of the people and the new relations of s o large a share of our population. One of those wonderful epochs whichea occur only rarely in the history of civili zation, as landmarks of its grand divis ions, has lately transpired, and yet the elasticity of our form of government has proved to be such as to adapt itself to the new era with celerity and prompt n hess. That which in other forms of gov eroment could only have been done through violence and bloodshed, has with us been quietly accomplished. Onr federal Constitution wisely pro vides for adapting itself to the wants and sentiments of the people. This resolu tion proposes to interfere with the power of the Constitution to thus change into more complete conformity with their d e matids. The question naturally divides itself into two parts. The first relates to the power of a State goveriniment to interfere with or interrupt the federal government in the exercise of this essential office, of changing the federal Constitution in ac quiescence with the demands of public t)pipiion. The second relates to the ne cessity or expediency of such- interference ()a the part of this State, if it shall be foutnd that a State pl(ssesses such powers. In considering the first question, it will strike every one at the very thresholid of the argument, that no question can pos g czsess greater importance, or deserve to be treated with greater candor. The prop ositi(n is a new anid delicate one, and proposes a step upon untried and &inger r ptis ground, such as should not be taken unadvisedly. I have never heard, and I am unable to learni that, in eighty years o f our constitutional history, any State, or any individual, has ever before pro posed to interfere in the slightest degree, with th-e perft.,ct at,,d harmonious working of the Constitution of the United States ii this regard. This fact should inspire us with becoming caution. That we may fully understand the na ture of the qu,,stion, it is prtlper to re m,:-ml)er that the provision of a writtenf ('constitution fir eff, ctisig future changes-c is one of its most important features It v ois not in the nature of man to frame a itpirfect form of human g,ivernment, es opecially one that shal- be adapted to the tabl, p int d, a i m de he s eci l o der present, and all the varying possibilities tu a op r t s n o th ar i l of t e C n for pril 20, t h lf-p st t n, A M.of the future. It is imp ossible tii foirese~ t t t o f t e Un t d S a e, w i h p o L~heurgmen prsentd b Mr Pereeor provide fo~r all the changes which may vdsfrftr mnmns is as foilsiw.-] ~occur, or the peculiar exigencies which I tt a nefr tal vni 'I h qu sti n pr sen ed y th re olo may arise, requiring different modifica t e s i h e t d g e, t m y d o i d f n t~Ou51 hich we report bc,is inusa ins of the several powers of gs~vernment iey fi a ea cinfrady and xtr ord nary tha yo r co imi tee to adapt them to the varying necessities i a o e t r. T m s n ta c n havedeeed t prperto reset sme-of the people. A government which pro- lino h oe. I h tt a h what in detail thei~r op n o s po it vides no means for a ehange in the organ- p i e o d l y a t o, i a e a ir Ihe esi lut ins rop se ste up n n w t law, but claims, like laws of the Medes ev r Th Co s i u i n o th St t ari da ge isu gr su d, eyo d he egi i- and Persiatis, to be fixed and unalter- ma as l w u l sa th t n am n m n mate pher of he St te g vern ent, able, m u.4, as years r(A 1 (n, pr o}ve utterly t h o s i u i n o h n t d S a e and nva ing the phe e o the gen ral urisuited to the wants of the people, anid sh l ev r b ap r v d as t sa th t i guve men. T e pr vis oti seen s t be will either degenerate into despotism, or s a l o l e a p o e t t e e p r t u unca led fli. Th Co sti utio of the by its growing inijustice provoke revo in il w u e r. - T at w i h f f e n S a e than ight yea s. D ring that time fif- It is especially important that republics, m s e p r t t u g e o o e n t m s teen isti ct a endm nts ave eeti dependi,ig fo~r their cointinuance upon the te St t s m y d qu e l, e s l, i t e ado ted ot ers hav be n r jec ed. The approval of the people, should provide f w p l t c a s w o m n p l t h gene al olic of the ove meut has such a safe and ready means of altering S a e C n t t t o s s e ft t r a n t a bee maerillymodfie, tesechagesand improving the form of government, sc mnmnsa h epedsr bei g p ace ul y a id rom ti ac ept d. as time and experience may suggest, (I h l o e a t d uon. T e a t eri y A c inp e r vol tio ha ta en lac in as the new phases in human affairs may b i t e o h c t t e i l t r the opi ion of me, a d i th co di render necessary. The importance of ma as e t t or r j c a pr p s d m n - tion of ne-t nth of t e i habi ant of such changes in these progressive times is m u o t e C n t t t o f t e U i e the epu lic Ye the who e m chi ery m ere than ever apparent. The progress S a e,i e i e o e y a d e t r y f o of ou gov rnmen has been uiet of this century in the science of govc a h eeral Cnst t t o i - r i l ernment to maintain and perpetuate its exist ence, and whensoever any State or any p)or tion of the States or the people thereof at tempt to secede from the federal union, or forcibly resist the execution of its laws, the federal government may, by warrant of' the Constitution, employ armed force in coer cidg and compelling obedience to its author ity. Your committee also having had under con sideration sundry resolutions relating to the removal of the national capital to the city of Nauvoo, and to other specified localities in this State, b eg leave t o report the following re soluti on sand ek its adoption: Riesolved, That we, the representatives of t he people, of the St at e, of Illinois, i n Consti tutiohe a Convention assembled, do hereby recommend to our representatives in the con grey,s )I the United States, and request ot' them, that they labor to secure the removal of' thre national capital to some point in the MistMi~sippi valley. The Secretary of this Conventran is instructed to forward a copy of this resolution. to each member of congress from this 6tate. Your committee have also had under con sider-ad~on the tollowing resolution, and have inntructed me to report the same back to the Convention, and ask to be relieved from the lurther consideration thereof. .Resolved, That ultimate sovereignty (siibject (-nly to the Constitution of the United 6L. ates) resides with the people of the State, and to such sovereignty ailegiance is due. Every State owes allegiance to the Constitution, as long as the, people, as the sovereign p~,wer iu;hte State, permit such C,,nstituLi(,n to remain in forcee; but upon the question whethIer sucti Constitution shall be abrogated or remain in force, the sovereign power of the pepl is paramount, and commands the allegiance of the citizen. Your- committee have a]-so had under consideiration the resolutions introduced by the gentleman from Shelby [MAr. Wendlirng,] arid the, gentleman from St~ephiensoni [Mt-.Tre] relat ive to providing in the Constitution ofiche, State that the General Assembly shall riot ratif~y amendments to the Constitution of the Urnted State,,, until after an eiection of members to ti, e General Assembly shall have intervenied, or unt.il the second reg'ular session held alt'er thec amendment is submitted, and have instructed me to report the same back, and ask to be relieved fr'om the further considt. ration thereol, presenting the following as the-ir reasons theeforn. I herewith present the re-asonis which have ii.duce(- Lthe commlittee t.) c()iie to these conclus,ions. I will not ask the time of the Coniventiont to read th,-m no(.w, as it wo.uld i~terfere with thie special order of the day, but will request that they go iinto tie report and debates. I ask that the report be laid on the w prent is only rivalled by the achievements in the material world and the discoveries of science. Every Dew conquest of mind over matter, each day's'j,,)urney in the march of human progress, requires some corresponding modification in the governmental machinery. The wisd,.m of the republic, or of any particular State, would hardly be equal to the task of framing a Constitution of government so perfect and complete, that without some provision for its future amendment, it could exist fi:)r a quarter of a century. We cannot too strongly declare the ne cessity fior some suitable "provision in ttie Constitution of a progressive republic, fo~r a safe, peaceful anid ready remedy for the correction of such defects as time at;~d experience may disclose. A change (,f government in other lands is often at tended with convulsions and civil str~ife which may threaten its destruction, and with such scenes of horror and bloodshed as usually deter men from every attempt to correct abuses or relieve themselv, s from oppression, until they become absolutely intolerable. It is patent then to every thinkit,g min-~d that any attack upon the power,,f the federal go)ver-nment to effect such wholesale refiorms as may be found necessary from time to time, to adapt it to the wants and necessities of the people of the Unlited States, or any limitation or restriction upon the exercise of that power, is an attack upon its right of self-preservation. The authority to effect changes in the'organic law is the safety-valve of the republic. It must be conceded that the right of protecting and preserving it: self anid providing ftbr its perpetuity i the necessary aud inherent right,of all go-vernimenits. If it be true, then, as we have endeavored to show, that authority to cff,-ct changes in the Constitution of a repayblie is necessary to its continuance, it logicality, follows that an~y limitation upon or interf'erence with the authority of the govei'nmetit by either friend or foe, to provide f~or its own amendment, is aa attack uni)() the very existence of the g,,vernment, ~,id ill violation of its conceded right to pr-ovide fo~r its own continiuance. It cannot then be shown by any sound or correct reasoninig that a State possesses any right or power to interfere with the na DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1153 MAP.CFI 12, 1870. 1154 CONSTITUTIONAL COXYETI()N SATURDAY, of that instrument con&s that power in reasolis: Congress could best judge of made for the manner of choosing renresenta reasonjs: Congress could best judge of the importance of so submitting the amendmient that it could be acted upon .p br the seversl States in a few months, or, on the other hand, whether it would be quite as proper that a delay of a few years should occur. Again: Congress. representiLng directly the whole people, cp f beat determine whether an amend a oentt contains questions upon which the people ate generally united, atxd which itnay be safely entrusted to Legislatures, already in existence, or whether such a difference of opinion exists upon these questionis as wou d render it wiser and better that the delay and expense of calling for the election in each State of a new body of men, with especial reference to asoertaining the will of the people upoon such questions, should be incurred.. These two questions, then, are expressly left f,,r congress to decide, to-wit: Doees, the public good demand that the amend tment shall or shall not be acted upo n promptly by the several States; and is public opinion fully formed and clearly understood upon the substance of the new proposition? IL so far as the State is concerned, this resolution proposes that practically bath these questions shall be decided forever by this Convention, as t,o any future ame,.dments that may be proposed; atid in defiai,ce of that well settled principle that "when powers are coniferred upoii co)ngress, the exercise of the same powers by the Sta,te is impliedly prohibited wherever the intent of tie grint to the national government might be defeated by such exercise." In searching for precedents by which to guide our action in this matter, I have been able to find bt)ut one analogous case, which has been discus- ed and acted upoIn by a Constitutional Convention in this country, and that occurred in the Massachusetts Convention of 1820. The qlestion there involved the identical principle presented by this resolution; that is, the right of a State Convenrtion to fetter a dis.cretion committed by the federal Coinstitution to the State Legislature, as to the time, manner and places of choosing presidential electors and representatives in congress. In that Convention, Mr. Austin introduced the following resolu ti..: aResolved, That the Constitution (of Massa chusetts) ought to be so amended as to pro vide that the represeutatives of this comnio rn wealth in the Congress of the United States, and s5( many of the electors of President and Vice-President as are equal to the number of the representatives aforesaid, shall be chosen by the people in such convenient districts as the Legislature shall direct. It will be seen that this resolution, like the one before us, proposed simply toc limit the Legislature in the exercise of a discretion entrusted to it by the Consti tuttion of the United States, and as it was debated by two of the ablest constitu tional lawyears this ceuntry has produced, their opinions are worthy of our atteno tion. Mr. Story said he was opposed to the amendment proposed by the gentleman [ Mr. Austin]. because it was contrary to the Constitution of the United States. "The question is," he said, "whether we have a right to insert in our Constitution a provision which controls or destroys a dis ecretion which may be, nay, must be exer I cised by the Legislature, in virtue of powers confided to it by the Constitutitn of the sUnited States. Express provision is there made for the manner of choosing representatives by the State Legislatures. They have an unlimited discretion in the subject. They may provide for an election in single districts. in districts sending more than one, or by a general ticket f-fir the whole Stale. Here is a general discretion, a power of choice. What is the proposition on the tatle? It is to limit this discretion, to leave no choice to the Legislature, to c,mpel representatives to be chosen i)y districts. In other words, to compel them to be chosen in a specific panner, excluding all others. Was noet this plainly a violation of the Constitution? Does it not affect to control the Legislature in the exervise of its legitimate pow ers? The gentleroan says, and pays t ru ly, that the Legislature will probabl y follow the rule presented by his proposition, if it is adopted by the Convention. "This," said Mr. Story, "is precisely my objection to it. The members of the Legislatu'e are under oath to support the Constitution ofthe State. They are also under oath to support the Constitution of the United States. Will it not be a violation of their oaths to bind themselves not to choose representatives in anv mat,ner that the Conbtitution of the United States allows, except that stated in the gentleman's proposition, when they are satisbied that the public interest requires another manner of choice? They may bring, their consciences into jeopardy bv such pi oecedings. It would be a direct and malblfest departure from their duty. Again, the -eeond artidle and first section of the Constilution of the United 6tates, provides that'Each State shall appoint, in such manner as the Legislature thereof may direct, a numn ber of electors equal to the whole number of senators and representatives to which the State may be euntitlrd in Congress.' Here a discretion as to the choice of electors is given to the Legislatures. It is unlimited. Yet, the proposition before us goes directly to destroy this tre(-dom of choice, and com pels the Legislature to resign all manner of cho,ice butL one. It assumes a control over the Legislature which the Constitution of the United States does notjustilfy. It is bound to exercise its authority according to its own views of public policy and principle; and yet this proposition compels it to surrender all discretion. In my humble judgment, it is a dilect and palpable infringement of' the con stitutionial provision to which I have refer red." On the same question, Mr. Webster said he "questioned the expediency of connecting the State Constitution with the provisions of the national Constitution."1 He thought it tend ed to Do good consequence to undertake to regulate or enforce rights and duties arising under the general government, by other means than the powers of chat government itself. The true constitutional, hlarmonious m,v,.ment of the two governments was as much interrupted by their alliance as by their hostility. I Whatever was enjoined on the L~giblture b~y the Constitution of the United Sataes, the Legislatures were bound toJ per f,,rm; and he thoumghtt it would not be well, by a pr'ovision of tins Constitution, to retlulale thd mtode ill which the Legislature should ex ercise ~ power conicfred upon it by another Conlstitution." It will be o~bserved how close is the parallel b~etween} the case so ably dis culssed in the lMassalchusetts Convention, an~d the case here presented. It is hardly necessary to add that that was decided ill the ne~gative. With reference to the second branch of this subject, ten wit: The expediency of the exercise of any restraint to~ lilnits tilol upon the actio.n of the Legislature in ratityinlg amlendmlents, if we had the power, it is only necessary to say, that the Federal Ct~mstisution is now more carefully guarded against the dalliers of a too hasty change, than other written ConJstitutions of which we have any know - ledge. In the first place, amendments must be proposed either by the legislatures of t wo thirds of the States, or~,by two-thirds of of that instrument confers that power in these words. The Congress, whenever two thirds of both houses shall deem it necessarv, shall propose amendments to the Constitution, or on the application tof the Legislatures of two-thirds of the States shall call a Convention for proposing amendments, which in either case shall be valid to all intents and purposes as part of this Constitution, when ratified by the Legislatures of three-fourths of the several States, or by Convention in three-fburths thiereof, as the one or the other mode of ratification may be proposed by congress. Amendments having the approval of the requisite two-thirds of both branches of congress, shall be valid to all intents and purposes as part of this Constitution when ratified by the Legislatures of three-fourths of the sever: al States. I t must have been the intention of the framers of the Constitution to confer upon the Legislatures, exisding at the titme an amendment is proposed, full plower to ratify or reject, or to refuse to act upon such amendments, and condi tioually upon any succeeditig Legisla ture, power to ratify, in cause of failure or refusal on the part of its predecessors. The resolution purposes to repeat so much of the federal Constitution as grants to the Legislatures in existence at the time an amendment is proposed, power to act upon that amendmenkt How can the Constitution of this State repeal any part of the Constitution of the United States, or deny the proper exercise of any power conaferred upon any determinate body of men by that Constitution? It a power is given by and under authority of a paramount ConstitutioD, how can an inferior body, creating a subordinate Constitution, amend that power? A discretion has been lodged by the people of the Uniited States (including this State), in bodies of men known as the "Leigislatures of the several States," and conditionally in their successors, to do a certain act. Can a Convention in Illinois. with all its claims to sovereignty or even the peo ple of Illinois alone, fetter or annul or limit the exercise of that discretion? Un di,ubtedly, this Convention (the people approving its action) can give binding direction to the State Lcgislature, but binding only wtheu the action of the lat ter relates to State legislation; not when th. body is to act as aii organ and by che authority of the federal Constitution, and under its command, constitutlonally ema nating from congress. Again, the res, flution proposes not only to take from the State Legislature, the ex ercise of the discretion entrusted tol it by the Constitution of the United States, butt it also propuoses to take front congress ~the exercise of a discretion conferred up on it by that Co~nstitutionl. The last clause of article five is as fol lows: . When ratified by the Legislam. urea of three, furths of the several States, or by Conven tion in three-fourths thereof, as the one or the other method of ratification may be pro posed by congress. Here is au express power conferred upon congress to determine whether amendments shall be submitted to Legis latures, an existing body of men, or to conventions, bodies of men which must of necessity be chosen only with the view of acting upon the particular amendmen~t or amendments proposed. Let us see why this di~etion was con ferred upon congress. Clearly for two 1154 CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION S.&TURDAY) MAC',17.DBTSADrOEDNS,15 MINORITY REPORT OF THE COMMITTEE ON FEDERAL RELATIONS Mr. WENDLING. Mr. President: On behalf of a minority of the Committee on Federal Relations, or rather on behalf of those who dissent from the report just offered-tile committee being equally divided-.I desire to present the following report: The Clerk read the report, as foll)ows: The undersigned, members of the Committee on Federal Relations, beg leave to report that they respectfully dissent from the views expressed in that portion of the report of this committee, relating to the proposition to incorporate in our State Constitution an article prescribing the time when the General Assem bly may ratify amendments to the federal Constitution. Believing that the subject is onei of grave importance, and holding that such a provi sion would secure to the people of Illinois the enjoyment of their highest rights, to-wit: The right to pass upon amendments to the federal Constitution at the ballot-box; and eholding further, that such a provision does not confli(ct with either the spirit or the letter of the federal Con,tituti, -n, we submit the following, and ask its adoption: ARTICLE -. The General Assembly shall not ratify any amendments to the Constitution of the United State>, until a general election for mem - bers of the General A.sembly shall have been held, after such amendments shall have been proposed by cotngress to the Legislatures of the respective States. Respectfully submitted, GEORGE R. WENDLING, THOMAS J. TURNER, JoHN ABBOTT, JESSE C. Fox. Mr. WENDLING. I will move that the same order be made with regard to that report, that has been made with referene to the majurity report. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the motion that the Imajority and minority reports of the Committee on Federal Relations lie upon the table, the usual inumtber of copies be printed, and that they be made the special order for April 20. The motion was agreed to. REPORT OF THE COMMITTEE ON MISCEL LANEOUS CORPORATIONS. Mr. CARY. Mr. President: I am directed by the Co)mmittee on Miscellaneous Corporations to) make the following report, which I will now read: to examine such property stored and all the books and records of the warehouse; and the agents, clerks and employes may be examined under oath as to the said books, records and property, under such rules and regulation6 as may be prescribed by law. SEc. 4. All railroad companies, and other common carriers, shall be required t o weigh grain into tile cars at points where i t is shipped, and receipt for the amou nt, a nd be held re spon sible for the delivery of the amount received at the place of destination. SEC. 5. All railroads receiving and transporting grain shall be required to deliver the same to any elevator or public warehouse to which it may be consigned: Provided, Such elevator or public warehouse can be reached by any track owned, leased or used, or which can be used by Buch railroad, and all railr(,ads shall permit connections to be made with their track, so that any public warehouse may be reached by the cars on said railroad, provided such connection is authorized by the legal authorities of any town or city in which such connection is desired. SEc. 6. The board of trade or other commercial organization of any town or city, to be designated by law, shall have power to make such rules in regard to inspection of grain as may he just and proper for the protection of producers, shippers add receivers of grain. SEC. 7. It shall be the duty of the Legislat.ure to pass all necessary laws to give fiull effect to this article of the Constitution, which shall be liberally construed, so as to protect producers and shippers. WILLIAM CARY, JOHN DEMENT, WM. R. ARCHER, CHAS. WHEATON, JOHN SCHOLF!ELD, JAMES MCCOY, S. S. HAY.ES. This is a matter that affects the great body of the people of Illinois, the farnming community, and one that there is a great deal of interest taken in, because there are great abuses, which are fought to be guarded against by this measure. I will ask to have the usual number of copies printed, and have it set for hearing on the same day the report of the Con'imittee on Railroad Corporations is considered. ["Five hundred copies."] Mr. CARY. Mr. President: I am requested by the gentlemen around me, to ask that five hundred, instead of two hundred, copies be printed. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the motion of the chairman of the Commmittee on Miscellaneous Corporations, that the report of that commiittee be laid on the table, the rules be suspended and the consideration of the report be made the special order for the same day and hour that the Co)nvention has ordered the consideration of the report of the Coup mittee Cal Railroad Corporations. The motion was agreed to. QUESTION OF PRIVILEGE. Mr. ROSS. Mr. President: I desire to call the attention of the Convention tee an article in the Chicago lTribune, of the 11 th instanlt, under the head of "Episode," which is as follows:~ EPISODE. During the debate on the thirtieth section of the judiciary report, to-day, while Mr.r Medill was speaking, a gent leman on the democratic side of the hoube asked him why it is that there was much more crime in rep:,blican counties than in democratic. Mr. Medill replie d that hedenied that such was the Jhct; but, if it eras a fact, the explanation is, that in republican counties they enfo~rce the laws against rascals, while in democratic counties they do not, for the reason that it would greatly impair the strength of their party.. Now, Mr. President, I desire to call the attention of the Convention to the fact that I paid particular attention to what This, sir, is the language of democracythat a majority of a community have a might to alter Ltheir lorm otf. gover ent, endet found opprc-sive. Bat, hosow difftrent is the genius ui your new Cloubtitution from this? Ho% cliffereut from ttet bentilIUntsL of freemein! A conUleLpLibiCe minority can prevent the good of the majority! 1'lu,b was the eioquent objection of the foundter of the heoucratc p ar ty of the ou0en tim e. How far, alas, have the desciples of modern democracy wandered frt,ui the teachings of the I'thers, when they complain of our federal (JoLbtitutlon, bt:caute lt permits too great freedom of amendm luent. To show that this objection to the Constitution was prevalent during the early days of the present government, we call attention to a letter ot codgratuiation addressed to James Madison, by General Davsm, of North Carolinia, sooni after he proposed,. in the first congress, sundry amendmients. He says: It has been the unitorm cant of the enemis of the government, that congress would exert all their influence to prevent the calling of a Convention, and would never propose amendmertls themselves. The people, whose fears have been already alarmed, have received this oUinion as just, and become confirme d in this opposition. Your notification, however, of an intention to bring Iorward amendments, has diffused almost universal pleasure. We hold it up as a refutation of the gloomy pr)phesies of the leaders of the opposition; and the honest part of our anti-federalists have Cublically expresed great satislaction on this event. iN,otwithstanding all these expressions of fear by the reputed founders of the democracy, that it is made too difficult to cthan,ge tile federal Co,.stitutioD, we now fi:nd our democratic brethren seriously exercised because congress, the immediate representative of the people il their national capacity, is too ready, by a twothirds vote, to propose amendmelnts, and the State Legislatures, the immediate rep resentatives of the people in their State capacity, are too ready under the threefourths rule, to adopt them! Among the maniy remarkable revolutions in party theories, during the existence of our government, this is perhaps the most remarkable. REPORT OF THE COMMITTEE ON MISCELLANE OUS CORPORATIONS. ARTICLE -. SEC. 1. All elevators or store houses, where grain or other property is stored for a compensation, are declared to be, and shall be deemed public warehouses. SEC. 2. The owner, lessee or manager of each and every public warehouse, shall make weekly statements under oath, before some officer to be designated by law, and keep the same posted in some conspicuous place in the office oft such warehouse, and shall also file a copy for public examination, in such places as shall be designated by 1 w; which statement shall ce,rrectly set fortlh the amount and grade of each and every kind of grain in such warehouse together with such other prtperty as may be stored therein, and what warehouse receipts have been issued and are at the time of making such statement outstanding therefor; and shall. on the copy posted in the warehouse, note daily such changes as may be made in the quantity aud grade of grain in such warehouse. SEC. 3 The board of trade of any city or town where a public warehouse is located, may appoint committees whenever it may desire, who shall have full power to inspect the books of any warehouse, whenever said bo)ard shall deem it necessary; and the owners of property stored in any warehouse, or holder of receipt for same, shall always be at liberty f MARCH 12) 1870. DEBATES AND -VROCEEDINGS. 1155 .both houses of Congress, one of which being a conservative body with a six year;s term, renders it sure that the ameju d ment cannot be proposed except in accordaiice with the well settled conviction of a large preponderance of the people; and after havi.9 passed this tryl"9 test of its popularity, it is submitted, i-iot to the decision of the inaj ority, as in all other iiisi-la,uces in this country, but it must re ceive the, extraordinary vote of threefourth.,i of the several states, either through their legislatures or through couv(,,utioiis. Tiie, sLrL).ugest opposition ttiat w,s made to the adopLiol-I of our Fedtral Coiistitutiod, was because of the ditficully of effectii,g sucli wholesome amendments as the people migat deluaiid. I" tile Vil,giuia Convention of 1788, Mr. Henry opposed its adoplion upon, these grouads. Ile fouad especial fault WiLil Lildt provision which requires the, cuj,cLii-re.Lice of three- f(,urL.-s of tiie Suates. Citl."g that Clause in the Virgiila bill of rig:L.Ltb, which declares that, a tutijority hala aiA indubitable right to reform, alter, or ubutish the - i'oj:w of govtrinielit, he exclaimed WM. P. P-EIRCF,, ChairmW. 1156 C()NSTITUTIOA1 CONVENTION SATURDAY, was transpiring, and no such response was made by t he deleg ate from Cook [Mr. 3ledill] whatever. If it be in order, I would like for our o,fficial steneograpbher to say whether all the latter part of that answer, except del,ying it to be a fact, h as not been interpolate and and put in since that ti me? The PRESIDENT. The Chair will state that the rule with regard to privileged questions limits gentlemen to the correction of any false statement that may be made in the newspapers in regard to his own language or position. It is not competent for the gentleman to call in question the statements of other members, whether they be erroneously reported or not, unless it personally affects the gentleman who makes the charge. Mr. ROSS. Mr. President: This is a reply, purporting to be made in Cotventioin, that was noxt niade The PRESIDENT. The Chair does not see how it personall y concerns the gentleman from Fulton rMr. Ross]. MIr. ROSS. Mr. President: I suppose that the interrogatory was propounded by me and that the answer has been interpolated since. No such reply was made. Some three-fourths of an hour afterwards, whiile I was sitting upon the republican side of the Convention, the gentleman fro,m Cook [Mr. Medill] came to me and shJowed me a written statement containing this, which he said he would have retorted if he had thought of it at the time! Mr. TINCHER. Did the -gentleman object to it at the time that the gentle nlan from Cook [Mr. Medill] showed it to him? Mr. ROSS. I told him at that time that he had no right to interpolate such an answer. The gentleman might have made a more suitable answer-as, first, that the greater increase of civil business in those repub lican counties and less in the democratic counties, is probably from the fact that in the democratic counties the great mass of our people are industri,,us, econonii cal; and h(onest, aid consequently pay their debts without litigation. Anid,'ec ondlv, that iu relation to criminal mat ters, being a temperate and law atiding people, they do, not quarrel, fight, nor drink as much larger beer and bad whis ky as in republican couuti, s, and there fore we do noft have so much criminal litigatit,,n. Mr. TRUESDALE. Mr. Chairman: I would like to ask the gentleman a question. D~ses he t~hiiik that the reply is alny less true or forcibbe by reason of its not having been made at the time? Mr. ROSS. I thin,k itris entirely false. If it has any application its that direction, it would be the gentlemans's o)wn political party, which in the democratic counties is being diminished in conlsequenlce of being seat to the penitentiary; but it would be a great deal worse, if it were not for the free use of the executive clemency to pardon party friends out of the penitentiary, when sent there for a violation of the law. AMENDMENTS TO TEIE CONSTITUTION. ]Ylr. iWELLS3 offered the fiellowi~g resolution, which was read by the Secretary, and referred to the Committee an Rules: cesolved, That no proposition, different fromn the federal Constitution, shall be incorlporate! in the proposed Constitution without a two-thirds vote of all the members elect of this -Convention, in favor of such new propo LEAVE OF ABSENCE. Mr. M ERRIAM. Mr. Chairman: I was requested by the gentleman from Mercer [Mr Poage], a week ago last Thursday to obtain leave of absence from the Convention for a week. He went home sick, requesting me, if he did not return in a week, to ask addi tional leave of absence; and as he has not returned, I make the request. Leave was granted neron. con. Mr. ABBOTT. I was desired to ask for a few days leave of absence for the gentleman fr,,m Pike [Mr. Archer], who has gone home sick. Leave was granted nem. con. JUDICIAL DEPARTMENT. Mr SKINNER. I move thatthe Con vention resolve itself into a Committee of the Whole on the judiciary article. The motion was agreed to. So the Convention, as in Committee of the Whole (Mr. Hayes in the chair), resumed the consideration of the report of the Judiciary Committee. CIRCUIT COURTS OF COOK COUNTY.. The CHAIRMAN. The question is up on the amendment proposed by the geintleman from Cook [Mr. Coolbaugh] to the thirtieth section of the rep(ort. The Clerk read section thirty, as fol lows: SEC. 30. The circuit court of Cook county shall consist of four judges, until their num ber shall be increased, as herein provided. The present judges of the recorder's court of the city of Chicago, and the present judge of the circuit court of Cook county, shall be two of said judges, and shall remain in office for the terms for which they were respectively elected, and until their successors shall be clected and qualified. Two judges of said court shall be elected on the day on which this Constitution shall be submitted to the people for adoption. Ai,d the substitute offered by Mr. Coolbaugh, as fi)llows: SEc. 30. The circuit court of Cook county shall consist of seven judges, until their numbers shall be increased as herein provided. The present judges of the ci(rcuit court of Cook county, the present judges of the superior court of Chicago, and the present judgi-s of the recorder's court of the city of (Chicago shall be five of said judges, and shall remain in office for the terms fior which they were respectively elected, and until their successors shall be elected and qualified. Two judges of said court shall be elected on the day on which this Constitultion shall be submitted to the people for adoption. Mr. ROSS. Mi-. Chairman: I do not rise fior the purpose of making a speech, but to draw the attention ot the Co(,k cimuo:ty delegsti(in to what would be the practical operation of the courts, if constituted as proposed by the substitute. What inconvenience would grow out of placing Cook county upon the same level with other counties in the State, and give them circuit courts? Gentle t men have said a good deal about the length of time they have had their court, and what would be the conveniecce or pleasure of a good many lawyers; but they have failed to show in what manner the establishment of a judiciary fior the county of Cook, analag,,us to the one we have in the balance of the State, would be injurious. That is the practical question. I have heard but one argument urged in relation to inconvenience, and that was in relation to requiring a change of venue to go out of the city. Suppose that, in order to obviate this, we were to create circuit courts No. i and No. 2, with a CONSTITUTIONAI-, CONVENTION SATURDAY) 1156 portion of the judges in one, and a portion in the other; what inconvenience would grow out of that? I would prefer, if it can be consistently done, with out affectit,g ii!juriously judicial proceediijgs, to mhke the judicial system of Cook e(junty coiif(-)rni, as far as practicable, to the system established for the balance of the State. I dislike very much to take up fourteen or fifteen sections of the Constitution of Illinois for a SiDgle County. Mr. McDO',(VELL, Mr.- Chairrnan: As it appears tE) be impossible for the gentleme.u from Cook county to settle this matter of their courts, which I was williLg to let them do, the Committee of the Wb(-,Ie wilt have to take it up find settle it for them. I think this committee ought to a,t in accordance with the suggestion of the Gentleman from Fulton [iVIr. Ross] unless strong reasons are shown why uniformity ,should not prevail in the Cook county courts. I have not yet heard a good reason why the courts should be differeut in Cook county from other parts of the State. I do not know why the gentleman from Cook [Mr. At.ithoijy] should infer from anything which I have said, that I desire to gratfy a spirit of revenge towards that county, for I expressed notbii,g of the kind. I am in favor of their having as many judges as they desire for the administration of justice, so that their courts conform to the other courts of the State; and provided that county pays the additional expeuse incurred for thle courts above what is r(-quired i-i other portio.Ds of the State, for we ought not to establish any special courts f(-)r Cook county. What I said was not from a spirit of revenge towards Cook county. I do not understand that criMiD,-ils are punished from motives Of reVeDge (al. ttiougti this may be tb- e case in Cook coutity), but that they may be reformed ,)r that examples- m4y be made of them, for the beiledt of others. The gentleryiaii says that I have insisted that Cook county is entitled to no consideration from the Convention. I say S() still. She is entitled to no coisideration from the way in which she has recently acted in setting the courts aud the laws at defiance-havirig disregarded the orders of the highest tribunal in the 0AC 12 180 EAE - PO)EIG.15 Mr. BROWNING. Mr. Chairman: I wish to submit a very few remarks before a vote is taken upon this question, for I believe I attach more consequence to it than most of the Committee on Judiciary do. I opposed throughout the sittings of the Judiciary Committee, a provision by which two courts should be perpetuated in Chicago-i ot from any hostility to the city, or any opposition to the personal wishes and feelings of those who live there, but because I did not think the Constitutional Convention ought to per petuate in its Constitution a blemish upon its judiciary system, wholly and totally without the least atom of value, and, in my judgment, fraught with many evils. I will, in the very few minutes allowed me, state, if I can, merely the striking fea tures and points in the case. It is urged by those who are in favor of two courts, that the opponents who insist upon having uniformity in all the courts throughout the State, shall assign good reasons for it. Now, it would appear to me much more proper to demand from those who insist upon such an anomaly as these two courts would be, good and satisfactory and conclusive reasons in support of the anomaly, instead of their turning upon their opponents and asking them to give reasons for a sensible, prudent and just measure, which is applied to all the rest of the State outside of Cook county. The delegates from Cook county agree in several particulars, and disagree in some others. In so far as they disagree, the Convention will have to settle the controversy between them. They a'l agree that they want seven judges. They all agree in another thing-that by whatever name the court to which they belong may be called, these judges shall each hold a separate court. No two of them are to sit together for the dispatch of business, because if they do, there is no use in creating them. If they are all to sit together at the same time, one judge will answer as well. They agree upon another thing: that whether there are one or two courts, the judges are all to be of precisely the same rank, all to possess precisely the same powers, and that each court is to have the same jurisdiction, exercise the same powers, and conform to the same practice. They are to be in all respects of concurrent jurisdiction; that is, they are all to be clothed with the powers of circuit judges, and to exercise the functions of circuit judges, and no others. Thus far the members of the Cook county delegation are all agreed. Now, in what do they disagree? Some of them insist that as they are all circuit judges with circuit powers, and no others, they shall all be designated by the same term, L'circuit court;' whereas, others of them insist that we shall cut this court in two, and name one-half the "circuit court" and the other "superior court." "Superior" to what? Why, they are circuit judges, and nothing but circuit juJges; and the term "superior court' is utterly without signific cation. Why cut the court in two-divide it in halves, christen the head "superior court," and the tail "circuit court," when every judge is a circuit judge and nothing but a circuitjudge' The reasons alleged for it are these, and I only glance at them. It is urged, in the first place, that it is GEN. SALOHAN REIHBURSED. The Transcript is not without its influence in Cook county. We are happy to announce that the supervisors of that county have taken our advice and have passed an order in favor of General Saloman for the sum of $1,575.50, being the amount of fine, costs and lawyers' fees in the celebrated case of the Illinois supreme court vs. Saloman, wherein the latter set at defiance our State laws and State authorities (courts included), and chiseled the State treasury out of one hu ndre d and thirtysixs thousand dollars in the little matter of Cook countv taxes. Cook county being the receiver and Saloman the thief, we c annot see why the formershould not foot the bills. Having obtained the bird, why should they leave the latter to pay for the bag? But they didn't. Cook county is generous to those who play the rascal in its behalf. It not only meets the money consideration promptly, blt comes forward and assumes the responsibility and shares the obloquy. In addition to this reimbursement of Saloman by the boar d of supervisors, several hundred of the business citizen s of C hicago are out in a testimonial or card of thanks to the Gmneral, saying "well done, good and faithful servant, enter thou now into the joys of thy territorial governorship.' By-the-by, the testimonial to Soloman is only equalled by the petition for the pardon ofthe murderer Walsh, in which the signers indulge in a few "reflections," otherwise called libels, on the character of his victim. It congratulates Saloman on his "courage" in resisting what the signers believed before the decision of the supreme court,'sand now believe" to be an illegal and unconstitutional imposition. They thank him for nullifyine a State law and setting aside a decision of the supreme court. Verily, he was a giant in his might, and deserved congratulaticn. It is true the Tribunte does not join in this adulation, nor does it approve the reimbursement of Saloman; but that argues nothing. It is not a part of the Tribune's nature to return thanks for anything. If Chicago were presented a million dollars in bonds, the Tribvne would growl if any of the interest coupons were missing. If anybody should see fit to thank God on the 20th of March that the sun rises at six, the Tribune would declare it ought to be up at four. We know that sheet, and we know that if Saloman had carried off the whole State treasury and turned it over to Cook county, the Tribune would have sent him back after the blank books in -hich to keep the accounts. So Cook county does well in not minding the vagaries of that sheet. It has paid off Saloman for his little job, thanked him handsomely, and sent him on his mission to govern the territory of Washington. If he does'nt steal the whole of it, and bring it back as a present to Chicago, it will only be because there is not room enough on Lake Michigan on which to set it down. Chicago is a great place and bound to grow. We advise the Constitutional Convention, now in session, to except it from any of the operations of the supreme court of the State. It is above and beyond that court, and there is no possible use of bother ing about it. Let the Convention say at once that the supreme court shall have jurisdiction in certain cases, saving always matters which occur in Cook county, which shall be a supreme court in and for itself, and for the balance of the State. The CHAIRMAN~. The question is upon the amendment proposed by the gentleman from Cook [Mr. CoolbaughlF 290 I i i I i IffARCII 12) 1870. DEB.ITES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1157 gentleman from White [Mr. McDowell], as a part of his'speech. The Chair thinks it is not always the right of a gentleman to have an arti cle read by the Clerk. And as the question is raised in this case by a special objection, the Chair chooses to put the question to the committee. The question is shall the newspaper,irticle sent up by the gentleman from White [Mr. McDowell] to be read by the Clerk to the committee, be so read? The reading of the article was agreed to. So the Clerk read from the Peoria daily anrcript, of the llth inst., as follows: necessary to do this to enable Cook county to provide the requisite room for holding courts. Will it require any more room for seven judges called "circuit" judges, than for seven judges when some are calied "circuit" and some "superior" judges? Precisely the same amount of room will be requisite, and will have to be provided. Further, it is said that the number of jurors that will have to attend, if thereis4 but one court, will be inconvenient. Why, sir, there will not be a single juror more if they are all called'circuit judges," if there is but one court, than if thereshouldbetwo. Itissaidthatthere will be a great deal of marching and countermarching through the court-house. Not one atom, Mr. Chairman, more, and not so much, I appohend, as if there were two courts. Another reason, and the principal one urged for the two courts, is the con. venience of taking changes of venue. I wa's surprised to bear my friend from McLean [Mr. Benjamin] urge that as a reason. When a change of venue is taken, how is it taken? From what to what r It is always taken from a court to a court of precisely the same name, organization and jurisdiction. It s taken from a circuit court to a circuit court and not to some other court; and if wt; preserve both of these courts, changes of venue cannot be taken from the circuit to the superior court without a special law to authorize it. Mr. H.,ilNES, of Lake. Mr. Chairman: I know it has been ruled out of order; but I wish the gentleman would allow me to interrupt him a moment. Mr. BROWNING. The gentleman can answer when I am done, if he pleases. When we take a change of venue from a j ustice of the peace, we take it to another justice of the peace. When we take a change of venue from a circuit court we take it to another circuit court; and it is just as easy when there are several cIrcuit courts or seven judges holdlDg circuit courts in Cook county, to take a change of venue from one of the judges to another, as it is to take a change of venue from one circuit court to another in the country. Everywhere else in this State, when we take a change of venue, we take it from one circuit to another, if the affidavit upon which the change is CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION day, and the other by night, and the order of each is competent and effectual, in the case, until it is rescinded. But suppose Judge B and Judge C each to hold separate courts of concurrent jurisdiction. Is it not known, to every lawyer, that there is a rule, so well settled, that it is never violated, that when one court of jurisdiction concurrent with another, has obtained control and possession of a case, no other court, of like juris diction, cen interfere? Now, I say in answer to the gentleman from Adams [Mr. Browning], that so far from any evil of this kind springing from the existence of courts of concurrentjurisdiction, we are protected against it, by the oiganization proposed by the article. I regard the danger hlie refers to as certain to spring from a court of seven or nine judges. With numbers the probabilities of a corrupt man getting upon the bench, increases very greatly. Let such a man be placed upon the bench, and he mnay rescind the orders of his associates, and in cases involving sums of great magnitude, the temptation to do so may be overwhelming. He may introduce precisely the system that has been introduced in New York. I question the fact, stated by the gentleman from Adams [Mr. Browning], that the counter injunctions, now so famous in the judicial decisions of New York, sprung farom courts of concurrent jurisdiction. There is a court of common pleas of the city of New York, concurrent with the superior court in jurisdiction I defy any gentleman to point to any event in the history of the courts of New York, that will justify the assertion that the superior court has ever interfered with the court of common pleas, or the common pleas with the superior court. Whenever the state of things referred to has arisen, the difficulty has sprung from inconsistent orders of the judges of the same court, possessed of equal powers. It is to relieve ourselves from this danger in the future, that we ask for these two courts. Now, the gentleman urges that it will be more troublesome to consult the judgment dockets, and ascertain the liens upon real estate, if two courts exist in the county. Now, the fact is, that the judgment dockets are so voluminous in this county that no single room will contain them. If we need to consult the judgment dockets of the two courts, we must step across the hall from one room to another to do so. It would be the same if there were but one court. It is said by the gentleman from Adams [Mr. Browning] that a change of venue could not be taken from the circuit to the superior court. That special provision has already been made by law, and it is a common practice to do it. ANow, why should we be driven, in all cases, when we desire totake a change of venue, to Kane county, or Will, or Lake I9 Then it is said that the system proposecd is anomalous. There is only one wayC by which an anomaly can be avoided,and that is the mode suggested by the gentleman frem MeHenry [Mr. Church],and I supposed his suggestion would be sufficient to indicate to the Convention that at would be impossible to make a system entirely consistent with the provision framed for the State at large. The only way that an anomaly can be prevented, is I I I SATUltDAY, 1158 to divide Cook Oounty into seven circuits or districts, which must be seven triangles so centering that each may have an angle in a room of the court house, or the county must be subj ected to the expense of erecting seven different court houses. The plan is absurd, and vet is the only one not "anomalous." Now, Mr. Chairman, I wish to add only, this one remark: that no gentleman has yet suggested a good reason why this committee should undertake a chalige in our system of courts, and I. take it for granted that we'",III not innovate, unless some controllidc, and decisive reason is assigned for it. Mr. HAINES, of L-,ike. Mr. Chairman: There is no doubt about what our duty is in the premises. So far as I am concerned, I would be glad to see one court, uniform with the system adopted in other counties. We are not here to establish courts for Cook couaty, but rather to continue those that have been established, until the General Assembly sball change them. We are here to make provision for the General Assmbly to make such change as may be required by the people, and that is what we ought to c"to-.to provide a manner in which this change may be made, so that the people of that county may have an opportunity to elect members to the General Assembly to come here and make the chadge. But it would seem tht this Cook county question has become like a miracle. Maijy years age there was perambulating about the country a sort of ma,gician, who styled himself Signor Blitz, working cheap miracles. That waicti astonished his audience most vvas the miracle of pulling out from an old hat various and ponderous articles of merchandise, sufficient, often, to stock a country store. Every time a pull was taken at the old hat, a new miracle was worked out, and so with the Cook county project. These magicians. representing that county here, every time they take a pull at this project, work out some new miracle, and when we outsiders interfere with them, we are informed that, being outsiders, we should not meddle in this matter. The most of my practice as a lawyer has been in that county, and the most of my property, what little I possess, is there. This And another great inconvenience will be that it will make it very much more difficult for persons who are interested in searching for encumbrances upon real estate. They will always have to search the records of two courts, whereas if there is but the circuit court, there will be but one judgment docket for the several courts, where all judgments will be rc-gistered and where every man can go and by examination of the one record determine at once what incumbrancbs there are. Under the other system there will be two sets of records, and two sets of judgment dockets, which will increase very needlessly the labor and difficultv of making the examinations. It is said that courts of different names, exist in New York and Boston. So they do, and so they do in this State, but did the gentleman, or any other gentleman ever hear or know, in the city of New York or Boston, or anywhere else, of courts of precisely the same organization, powers, jurisdiction and practice, in the same locality, designated by different names? No, sir. All the courts in the city of New York that possess the same power, jurisdiction and organization are designated by the same name, and it is only where there are variances in this respect, creating a necessity for a new name, and a Dame that shall be, to some extent, significant of the functions of the tribunal, that this new name is given. [Here the hamnier fell.1 Mr. HITCHCOCK. Mr. Chairman: I should not ask the attention of the committee further upon this questiod, if it were not for some remarks that have fallen from the distinguished gentleman from Adams [ivlr. Browning]. He suggests evils possible in the future, that. may spring from the organization of two courts of coiic,iirent jurisdiction in Cook countv. He makes -no claim even that any evils bave been apparent in the past. He sug,gests that possibly in the future, we may -find ourselves'in the same difficulty that -citizens of New York have found themselves, in regard to th,,, organization and thejurisdictionoftheircourts. Ofcourse it is obvious to every lawyer, to what proceedidgs he refers, and to what courts. Now, I wish to suggest to the gentleman and to the committee that all these .,evils existing in New York, and which ~A-C 1t 80 1BT~A~ RCEJG.1 tion on their judgment anywhere. We While I prefer the suggestion of my ques ions it. No one has arraigned it for While I prefer the suggestion of my friend from Fulton [Mr. Ross] to the plani reported by the Committee on Judiciary, there are, in my judgment, grave objec tions to its adoption. In the first place, it accomplishes little more than a change in name. What is sought to be accom plished by the substitute is a change of system. It will matter very little whether we call the superior court of Chicago a "su. perior court," or "circuit court No. 2." What is sought to be accomplished by the substitute is a consolidation of these courts. Now, I have no interest whatever, per sonally, in this controversy. I am not a lawyer; I have only that knowledge of jurisprudence which one of the most emi nent jurists (Lord Eldon) thought it nec essary for every one to possess-"to know enough of law to keep out of it." I can say more than this:'Ihat it is a matter of very great regret to me to be compelled to dissent from the views of my colleagues upon the floor. It is a controversy in which I have very little heart to engage, under the circumstances. But, sir, with all due regard to the emi inent ability of my colleagues, while I have listened with great attention to the arguments they have brought forward in favor of this double system of courts, I have been disappointed. I have felt satis fied that they themselves must have a consciousness upon their minds that they are defending one of the weakest cases they have had in the course of their legal experience There have been but two reasons urged for the continuance of this double headed system of courts in Cook county. The first by my distinguished colleague [Mr. Hitchcock], was that the consolidation of the courts would be an experiment. Now, sir, there is not a single improve ment in existence to-day, that was not at one time an "experiment;" there is scarcely a blessing which the public are in possession of, which was'hot at one t-ime an "experimeit," against which the strongest objections have been urged. I rememIoer very well of having read, that when the "experiment" of trans atlantic navigation by steam was suggested, the wise savans of the age took the proposition under consideration, and, after months of investigation, decided it to be a grave impossibility. I therefore consider the objection raised as a very feeble one. This system of having seven judges inl aoone court, with all due deference to my learned colleagues, is not so much an ex s periment after all. We propose to have seven judges in the supreme court of the State, and I believe the supreme court of the United States has nine judges at the present time. It is an argument of but little force, against the consolidation of the courts to-day, that at some time in the far off future the judges might become too nunerous, and the court become too ponderous a piece of machinery. Sufficientnt unto the day is the evil thereof." When it becomes necessary for us to have "circuit colurt No. 2," we can have it; but at the present time, we know from experie nce that seven judges can work efficiently in one court. The second argument was urged to day byanother of umy colleagues [Mr. An O thony.] It is that the superior court has always been a pure court. No one DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. MAP.CH 121 1870. 1159 tion on their judgment anywhere. We "outsiders" have no interest in this mat t,er of their courts. There was once a man who bad a law suit in court. His lawyer worked very dilligei3,tly for him while his suit was pro greSSiDg, so he thought the man of law was on his side, to all intents and pur poses, but us soon as the case was over, the lawyers on both sides were as good friends as ever, although they had called each other all sorts of hard names durina the trial. The client asked for an ex planation of this peculiar friendship, and was told in reply that a lawyer is like a half pair of shears, iDj uridg -nobody by' himself, but that when anybody goes between the two lawyers, the result is that he has to suffer the consequences. It is so with the Cook county delegation. They are all rioht as long as we let them alone and they have their own way, but the moment they are interfered witb,the shears come together, and somebody suffers. I myself had the misfortune on yesterday, the first time in my legislative experience of six or eight years, to be ruled out, and put on the record as being Out of order, by a jealous member of Cook county in the chair [Nlr. Hayes], because I interfered with the s'eech of a gentleman from Cook county [,Nlr. Medill] on this question. It stands on ttle record still. If I have not got the last speech, I have got a vote on this Cook County matter, thouo,h if Cook county cannot with all their talent on this floor, and one man all the time in the chair, carry this, they are very much to blame. [Laughter]. There was, in times past, a great pianist,, who was challenged to a wager by a friend who was a great composer of music, to perform on the piano a certain piece of music he would compose for him, and he laid the waoer he could. The piece was furnished, and he commenced, but. soon found his hand,,; extended to the extreme opposite of the piano, at the same time a note occurred immediately in front of him. He could not by any possibility bring his hands back and make the con. nection, so he pi-it donv.,i his no,,3e on the key, filled it out and won the wager. This performance of yesterday, when I was brought down by the gentleman from Cook, ia the chair rMr. Hayes], reminded me very much of this pianist. ques- ions it. No one has arraigned it for misconduct' But we propose to place in the circuit court the same j ludges that are IAOW D the superior court. Can it be that a change Of name is to make these gen tlemen impure? The superior court,bas been an excel lent court-bas administered justice prop erly. Can any one say aught different of the circuit court? Can any one arraign the circuit court as having abued its privileges? If, on the other hand, these judgesare liable to become corrupt in the future, will transferring, from a court of one name to a court of another name, prevent it? The objection is so puerile that I am surprised at its being offered. There are, Mr. Chairman, strong reasons why a consolidation of courts should take place. The first consideration that governs my action is this, that it is the desire of the people. We are hereto protect the interests and wishes of those we represent, and I believe it is the wish of our people that there should be a consolidation of our courts. The second reason is, that it will give -uniformity. Our courts will conform to that system which we propose to extend all over the State-circuit courts. The third consideration, -,ir, is convenience. The fact cannot be questioned that there are many promising lawyers in Chicago who have not an extensive practice, who are entering upon the practice of the profession, who have no law partne'r. Sometimes a case will come on in the superior court and another in the circuit court, on the same day. if a consolidation were effceted in the system, this inconvenience would not arise. Another reason why the ubstitute should be adopted, is, economy. It is proposed that there shall be in the future but one clerk, as soon as the terms of the present clerks expire; one system of keeping the records, etc. There will be a great economy in having one clerk, instead of two. All these reasons are worthy of consideration. No'w, sir, I desire to notice only one or two remarks that have been made with reference to Cook county. And, first, I will refer to those offered by the gentleman from Lake [Mr. Haines]. The only difference, in my judgment, between the re resentatives of Cook count and the 1160 CO~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~STIT [1TIOXAL OO~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~YENTION SATURDAY,~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~- r departing from it adhere to the old usages I of the last quarter of a century, in regard I to that city and county? It is L ot "anomalous" with reference to our own State. The Constitution ander which we have lived fbr the last twenty. one years, does especially recognize and hold in being an organization of this I same superior court of Chicago under a different Dame, it having been organized b by law previous to that time. UnJder a L power contained in the Constitution of 1818, to organize such kind of courts it ; was organized, and was reorganized by L the Constitution of 1848, under the name of the "Cook county court;" and as such, i- exists now, by force of the Constitution * that we are now seeking to amend. Section twenty-one of the schedule reads: "The Cook and Jo Daviess county courts shall continue to exist," etc., and by continuing it, as is proposed to be done by the Constitution now being fram ed, we simply leave it as we find it. We make no change in that respect. We leave it as the Constitution left it in 1848. In reference to hunting up judgment dockets to ascertain liens, the gentleman from Adams [Mr. Browning], I presume, is sufficiently acquainted with the man ner of ascertaining liens in Chicago, to know that it is impossible to ascertain, with any kind of certainty, liens either by judgments or by deeds, or mortgages, by referring to the original records. There have been private enterprises un dertaken, which have taken the place of these dockets, and these private enter prises are resorted to in order to ascer tain liens. Now, I confess, as one of the committee reporting this article, that I believe I was one of the first, in connection with the gentleman from Adams [Mr. Browning] to suggest means by which we could re tain the name of the "circuit courts," and make it applicable to all courts that should be organized, with concurrent ju risdiction. Reasons were given, sugges. tions were made-all of which met with well grounded objections. Calling them "circuit court number one" and "number two" was objectionable; although sug gested with apparent reason, it was found to be more liable to mistakes in the records and in the processes. The change ofta mere figure, "one" or "two," might create fatal mlistakxes, if not discoveredl in time for correction. Many other rea sons might have been suggested, besides those which were; and finally, the com mittee werer of the opinlion that it was at iall events a mere matter of taste. The C'ook county delegation was supposed to have represented the wishes of its people in regard to it, and this was reported — not that there was a unanimity by any means among the committee upon that question, because, I suppose, in fa~ct, the committee cared very little about it so long as no principle was involved or vi olated.. I am somewhat surprised that there should have so e~xtended an opposition grown up to it here. I am somewhat off the opinion that the opposition started in ! the first place, from a desire upon the part of somne of the committee to apply the name of the "circuit court" to all the courts in Chicago, and that from that proposition the division has grown up outside. appears that I was mistaken. I cordially and cheerfully take back all I have said - in that respect, and so withdraw all . cause of grievance on the part of that delegation so far as I am concerned. - Mr. CIIURCH. Mr. Chairman: Be fore the vote is taken upon this question a, I deem it justice to say in behalf of the : Judiciary Committee, which reported r this portion of the article relating to the system of courts for Cook county, that l when they agreed to the report, they did so with the full belief, as I believe, that c the Cook county delegation was a unit upon that question. They were favored with a visit from the Cook county dele gation, entertained them with respect and regard, and wished not only to grati fy them, but also to accord to the bench S and bar of Chicago their wishes in this ; matter, if they did not conflict with the L interests of the people of the State; and . no one pretended that they would con filict or interfere with those interests in , any manner whatever. L And here, sir, allow me to say, that for L weeks, while this question was under coni sideration by the committee, I never heard any objection made to the recognition of these two courts, by name, except what arose in the committee. There were many of the committee who raised the objec tion, not to the creation of two courts-for I never heard that raised-but to the crea tion of two courts with concurrent juris diction with different names. Finally, sir, we heard that there were outside some few differences in regard to it. When this Cook county article came before the committee, the impression that I got was that it was supported by the entire Cook county delegation, and that while there were members of that delegation who were not particular as to whether the two names should be retained or not (I had no objections to their being retained), there were others who were very particu lar, very strenuous, that the two should be retained. And, sir, to the remarks of the emi lnent gentleman from Adams [Mr. Brown ing], that this proceeding is "anomalous," I insist that it is not. I insist that there are many Constitutions that go further in recognizing the judiciary organizations of their large cities than ic is proposed to go here. The Constitution of New York recognizes these particular organizations in the city of New York, and not only in that city, but in the cities of Rochester and Buffalo, and I do not know but in others. The Constitution of Maryland recognizes a special judiciary organization for the city of Baltimore, and I do not know that it would be going too far to say that such is the case in all States with large cities, where the whole matter of courts, or nearly so, is not left to the leg i islative department. Wherever State Constitutions have sought to deal with the question specifically, it has in general been the fact that the courts ot cities have been recognized in some manner, and on account of the difficulty of mak - i ng any general system applicable to so large and dense a population as great cities contain. No one has attempted now to show how the judiciary system that has been reported here for the State at large, can possibly be made applicable to the city of Chicago and county of Cook. It cannot be done. Then as we must depart from that general plan, why not depart from it as little as possible, and in I t I 1 1 r t 1160 CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION SATURDAYI tion. It is impossible that gentlemen (members of the bar) who have mad known their wishes, and favor consolida tion, are laboring under an hallucination. I canu()t feel that all the auility of th bar of Cook county has come to this Convei3tion [Here the hammer fell]. Mr. BROMWELL. Mr. Chairman: While I do not wish to try to throw any light on this question, the remaks of the last gentleman have reminded me of a duty I owe to tne delegation from Cook county. I take it to be a rule that when any member of this body may have done aught to wound the feelings of other members, or has cast any imputation on them, he should, at the proper time, make amends. Sometime ago I had the misfortune, in the heat of debate, to make a remark which greatly grieved and excited several of the gentlemen from Cook county. After I had quit the floor I was addressed by them, and requested to take it back, which I promised to do as soon as I could find them all together in this hall. And if anybody inquires why I delayed the reparation so long, I answer that I have been waitidg until all the members of the Cook county delegation should be assembled, which has not as yet, to my knowledge, ever hapdened in this Conve"tion. So I take the opportunity at this time, which is very opportune, to say that the remarks I made in Committee of the Whole, when speaking of the canal, charging the Cook county delegation with unanimity and a great feeling of fraternity, were not well founded, and that they do not desire to rest under such an imputation. Several of them have requested me to take back these remarks, which I cheerfully do, as the committee can see that they must have been not as well founded as I supposed. But I had some reason for falling into this error. In the first place, I was led into it by the courteous, urbane, benevolent appearance and bering of the gen. tlemen from that county. No person could see the courtesy and gentlemanly bearing of those delegates which have been a constant contribution to the satisfaction and pleasantness of the Convention, without falling into the o inioli that th were unanimous and MacH 1, 1870. DEBATES AD PROCEEDINGS. 1161 system because it takes more clerks. I deny that assertion. There is a certain amount of clerical work that has to be done, in our courts in particular, and whether there be two courts or one court, there must be the same number of judges, and it will take the same number of men to keep the records of the courts. Tnere is no more expense in that direction. So far as the number ofjudges are con cerned, give us just as many or just as few as you please; for one, I will be satisfied with any number that gentiemen, outside of Cook county, shall vote us. Only let our two courts remain as they are, with one judge or two judges each, or as many as you please to give us. So much for that. There has been another argument here-that if we get all the judges in one court we can pile up this cumulative vote, giving minorities a power of electing. As our two courts will have more than one judge-one has three now, and we pro pose to make four in the other-they have the same opportunity of piling up this cumulative vote that they have with the judges of any one court, as proposed by the amendment. It has been the fash ion in our city for quite a number of years, in our municipal affairs for some interested persons to, every time the Leg islature meets, rush down here for amend ments to our city charter, and those altera tions have kept us in hot water all the time. A set of men wish to make a change here and there, to better our con dition, but they have made it worse every time they moved. Our courts above all things, should not be changed, for they are some of the old landmarks yet left of the present Constitution. Yesterday, when I took occasion to give my reasons for objecting to a cumu lative vote on judges, and instanced the bad element that always clusters about large cities, as being powerful and dan gerous, and our city no exception to the rule, but that on the contrary, this element practiced in our midst, quite unchecked, their crimes and their immoralities, I was met, I thought, by my colleague [Mr. Medill] with a defiant spirit, such as I think my intercourse with him in the past, and my attitude in the premises then, did not justify. I have endeavored to treat my fellow members of this Convention with kindness and consideration, never knowingly having been personal in my remarks, and I will leave it to them individually and collectively, to say, if in any instance I have deviated froni that rule. Such having been my conduct, I say I thought it a little unkind in my colleague to hurl back upon me with so milch warmth his bitter denunlcia.tions at what he assumed to be an unwarranted and untruthful attack upon Chicago. Now, er. Chairman, Chicago has been my home for thirty-five years, and I know no other homeall that I have, all that I am, and all that I hope for in the future, is in Chicago. My nearest and dearest ties of earth are there. My children were all born there, and live there now, and sorrowful and dlark indee ot would be the day or the hour that should take them irom the place that has known them and me so long. But, sir, whilst all this is true, I shall not shirk my responsibilities, nor my honest duties as a delegate upon this floor. I care not, neither do I think it wise to assume that Chicago I d o n ot desire in these rem arks to charge upon any party in Chicago, or upon any partisan organization in Chica go, any desire to seek advantages here; and I will say that I am not influenced in any manner, nor will I be by any state ments in regard to jealous bickerings ex isting there among the courts and judges. [Here the hammer fell]. Mr. KING. Mr. Chairman: I rise for the purpose of making a motion. I do not know whether it will meet the ap probation of the Chicago delegates or not. I move to postpone all that portion of the article reported by the Judiciary Committee, commencing with section thirty and extending to section forty-two, inclusive, until the thirteenth day of April. I do it, Mr. Chairman, for this purpose The CHAIRMAN. The Chair must decide that a motion to postpone until a day certain is out of order. The Com mittee of the Whole never can determine whether it will be in session on a day cer tain. A motion to postpone until some other section, or part of the subject be fore the committee should be reached, would be in order. Mr. KING. Mr. Chairman: I move that the committee now rise, to give me an opportunity of submitting this to the Convention. I would like, before the motion is put, to have an opportunity of expressing my reasons for the motion. The CHAIRMAN. It would be in or der for the gentleman to pursue the line of argument suggested, upon the amend ment and section before the committee. A motion that the committee rise is not debatable. Does the gentleman with draw the motion? Mr. KING. I do not withdraw the motion to rise. The CHAIRMAN. Then the gentle man must wait for the question to be put upon his motion, and the question will now be taken. The motion to -rise was not agreed to. The CHAIRMAN. The question is upon the amendment proposed by the gentleman from Cook [Mir. Coolbaugh]. Mr. HAINES, of Cook. Mr. Chairman: This is a question that not only interests Cook county, but also other portions of the State. It proposes to uproot a system that we have had in our city for the last quarter of a century. It proposes to undo that which we are satisfied with. Our delegation, or a majority of them, are now for the established ~;rder of things. So far as my information is concerned, the people of Cook county (and I believe I circulate among them as much as any member from that county), or a majority of them, do not desire a change. This superior court is the court of all courts that we have in that county, into which the small traders and the poor go, and nlow this Committee of the Whole proposes to take that from them —a court which they have had for twenty-five years, and have become used to. Gentlemen must remember, that when they have finished their work here, they must submit it to the people. They must get the inldorsement of the people of our county to this change. Now, I do not understand that in allowing an estab~lished order of things to remain as it is, we are putting any additional exapense upon the State. My colleague from Cook [Mr. Cameron] has objected to this 291:~ Msmor 12, 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1161 has all of the virtues of this world, and none of its vices. We are a large city, and a growing city. We are as much of a seaport town as New York, there being in port some times as many as four hundred to five hundred vessels of various kinds, and sometimes during the season of naviga tion, as many as one hundred vessels ar rive in twenty-four hours. Then we are probably the largest railroad center in the country, and the result is, that be tween the railways and the waterways, we have thrown upon us in a steady stream more rogues, from almost all over the world, than any other town in this country. These people are a floating population thrust upon us against our will —they are truly speaking "floaters," claiming citi zeuship by no right of permanent resi dence, but by the right of being with us, when their votes are needed to accom plish a given end. With such a state of things, is it such a wonder that crime stalks abroad by day, and by night, and that virtue does not sit alone within the walls of our great and growing city? I say this with no spirit of disparage ment, for we have many thousands of good people-people who are great in their virtues, and great in their deeds in all that ennobles humanity and strengthens morality and good government. As an evidence of that, we count our churches by the hundreds; our schools are many and unrivaled in their excellence; our charities, both public and private area blessing to the poor, and an ornament to the virtues of the good who uphold and support them; and it is in their interest that I speak when I ask you to pause and consider the consequences before you thrust upon usa system, as yet, untried in the judicial system of 9 metropolitan city. When my colleague joined the Cook county delegation in recommending to the Judiciary Committee that there should be no more justices of the peace elected in the city of Chicago, but in their stead there should be district courts, the judges of which should be appointed by the Governor, was it not an acknowledgment in fact, that the bad element in our city was strong enough to elect and control that arm of the judicial power of the city? He may answer that it is not the fault of the voters that we do not get good men for justices of the peace, but because the office is so small that good men will not take tile office.. I know of scores of good men who would be glad to hold the office, because properly ads ministered, it is an honorable office, and is, in our city, a profitable office. We have no judicial officersr except it be the circuit judge, whose pay is so large as that of mangy of our justices of the peace, N~ow} Mr. Chairman, feeling all the responsibility resting upon me, so far as I am concerned, I desire, here and now, to protest upon the part of those whom I represent,, in part, againt thisCovn tion thrusting upon us a court composed of from seven to fifteen judges, a systenm untried, the nature of which we do not know, and the troubles of which we cannot foretell.. [Here the hammer fe1.] [" GoEn," "Go) on*'] The CHAkIRMAN. By common consent, the gentleman can proceed. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION afterwards the old whig and democratic parties-and afterwards by the republi can and democratic parties. There will and must always be two political organi zations, one holding the power, and the other struggling to obtain it. Now, Cook county will be divided politically, just as L the remainder of the State and of the * UnitedStates. If we ever elect corrupt r judges in Cook county, it will be because the party in majority has become corrupt. If we do not apply the minority princi; pie, the majority will elect all the judges; so that the very fears the gentleman en tertains will be realized in the evils which t will result from majority representation. The danger is thus increased by throw; ing away minority representation. That is one of the causes of the bad character of the judiciary of New York , city. The party in the majority have there fallen under bad influences, and elect all the candidates. With the minor ity principle, the honest people of New York would be able to secure a part of the judges. If the majority of Cook , county should become morally rotten in the future, so rotten that the majority would be in favor of bad judges, bad laws and bad administration of the laws, by means of the minority principle thpe honest, moral, law abiding portion could still have a representation and secure some upright judges. It is true, we have a large floating pop ulation of evil-minded persons and peo ple of loose morals, who come to our city for the purpose of committing crime, plying their evil vocations, or covering up past offenses; but, without any per sonal disrespect to my colleague [Mr. Haines], I must insist that it is not true that one-third, or even a tenth of our population belong to these classes. And I maintain that, aside from the floating scum that drifts into our county, the peo ple of Cook county are as moral, upright and respectable as the people of the rest of the State, or of the United States. About one-third of our people are native born Americans; about one-third are Germans and Scandinavians; the re mainder are of British parentage. There are good men and bad men among them all, but a large majority of each national ity are upright people, who fear God and obey the law. Politically, the bulk of the American born population have acted for many years with the republican party, and the bulk of the Germans and Scandinavians have done the same, while the bulk of the British born and aminority of the Ameri cans and German born, have acted with the democracy. Each party has had its bad members hanging around its skirts. Each have people who are ignorant poor or debased, but as a whole, the vast ma jority of both parties are honest in their doings, industrious in their habits, up right in conduct, and moral and religious in sentiment —as much so as the average of the nation. I ask no more than that for my constituents, and I will consent to take nothing less. Aside from the scum that drifts in upon us from other places, law and order are cherished and respected by all classes in that city. The moral and law abiding element has perfect control of the city. They are making continual and vigorous warfare upon crime and evil doers of ail kinds. If the penitentiary in Joliet is largely filled from Cook county, which is 1162 SATURDAY, Mr. HAINES, of Cook. Will they -thrust this upon us, in place of a Qystem we have got, one we have tried for twenty-five years, and one we are satisfied with; will thev take that responsibility? It is because I feel that if this system is foisted upon us, we will have troubles similar to those which have transpired elsewhere, that I oppose it. We have already provided, in the Constitution we are framidg, that all our cities in this State may have inferior courts, and, the smaller towns are provided for in that regard. And sir, another thing. It is provided that all these judges shall circulate thro,ogh the recorder's court. It is said, that they can di-7ide their duties. But that cannot be, because they must all sit as criminal judges in the recorder's court. Then again, in New York, as we know, there is a constant conflict. Onejudge there cannot issue an injunction, without another dissolving it. So it will be with us; it will afuict us with an interminable cc,iatest. OnejudgeiSSUiDganiDjunction and another dissolving it, and vice ver8a, we shall have a kin,! of "general trainiDg," all round, while our people, meantime, must suffer under a constitutional evil, which aannot be cured or repealed. Mr. TINCHER. Mr. Chairman: I want to make the closing speech here. I give way, however, to the gentleman from Cook [Mr. Atedill], for the present. Mr. MEDILL. Mr. Chairman.- It is possible that on the impulse of the moment, yesterday, I may have used some expressions, in resenting the imputation thrown upon my constituency, that my colleague [Mr. Haines] deemed too warm or harsh. I am the last man, however, to wilfully wound his feelings from any p6rsonal ill will. Had his remarks been personal to myself, I should have replied to them in good humor, and in a manner that would not have given him the satisfaction of a blow in kind, or 11 tit for tat." But the gentleman, as it seemed to me, gratuitously cast derogatory reflections on the moral character of my con,,,tituencyupon that great and grand constituency which I, together with him, have the honor in part to represent; and it is pos,sible that I was a little too warm in my resentment. I have been personally acquainted with my colleague [Mr. Haines] for fifteen or the fact, it is because the good aiid respectable men of the county of Cook press the lawless classes to the wall-seize them, try them, convict them, punish them, do notwink at crime in that citv. There is an overwhelming preponderance of sentiment in Chicago in favor of morality and decency, of law, of order, and against crime in all its forms; and that power is felt by the criminal classes daily and hourly. We make that city pretty hot for the scoundrels from the rural and other districts whofloatinupon US. Our judges are upright, fearless men, who do not screen the law-breakers, or soften the demands of Justice: and there is a strong and vigorous public sentiment there to support them in doing their duty. There is no city in the union, in which evil men are more promptly dealt with, or more vigorously punished, than in Chicago, or in which there dwells a higher standard of morality, of honesty, and of moral sentiment, than in that city, notwithstanding all that has been said to the contrary on this floor. The sure punishment of crime in Chicago is proof of the searching, continuous, and vigorous application of law for the preservation of order. We do not shut our eyes to the bad class of men who come among us to ply their vocations. We search them out, hunt them down like wolves and punish them severely-put them in the penitentiary, in the bridewell, in prison, fine them, or drive them off. There is no cessation of this warfare upon crime, of this defense of law, loyalty to order, and good government, as the criminals who float in u'pon us from all parts of the world have discovered to their cost. Tile city itself is sound in mind, and thought, in morals, purpose, and politics, and I hope it will continue to be; and my colleague's fear simply got the better of his judgment, when he came to the conclusion that we would be ia danger from, the criminal classes if we applied the totality principle of representation to the choice of the judiciary, by which each of the great parties could have a representation upon our bench., I believe that system would work splendidly. I believe it would add to the security of life and property, and would raise the standard of good government higher than if one ptrty should have all the power, and all the patronage. Mr. TINCHER. Mr. Chairman: I wonder how it would do to apply this big oath of ours to the people of Chicago, generally. [Laughter.] If it would have a good effect, I would be in favor of it. But I must say, Mr. Chairman, without treatidg,. the matter lightly, that I am rather favorably impre.3sed with the courts in Chicago as they now have them, from the results, rather than otherwise. I see that under the present system they send off a car-load to the enitentia DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. still urged, I shall move that amend ment. I believe, with these remarks, I will give way for the gentleman from Wood ford [Mr. Bayne.] Mr. BAYNE. Mr. Chairman: I am exceedingly pained to see the fall that has taken place among the delegates from Cook county. Before the election came off, we saw in all the papers that there was going to be a general cleaning out of men of all political parties, and that the "people" were going to send men of pure minds, who would be above partisanism. When we came down here, those of us who were republicans, were very anxious to secure the organization of the Conven tion. We counted noses, and found that we could not secure the presiding officer, unless we could make terms with the Cook county delegation. There seemed to be no way of approaching those gen tiemen. I suggested the propriety of sending a committee to wait upon them, and see if we could not get them to take part with the republican party, and secure the organization. It was the unanimous conclusion of the republicans, that it would not be generous for men to approach such high minded gentlemen in that kind of style. [Laughter.] Finally, I took my hat in my hand, and approached one of those gentlemen, when to my utter astonishment, I found him like all other kind of men-approachable; that could I talk to him the same as to other men, but that they were "independents," and were not going to affiliate with either party. They have acted harmoniously throughout. I had hoped that we would have a magnanimous Constitution adopted. I took great interest in the canal improvements, and the railroad improvements, but those gentlemen were unanimous against all these things, and said we must bind up the State very tightly. I concluded to acquiesce in that decision, because I could not help feeling that when the time came, I would retaliate; but upon mature reflection, I feel a disposition to help Cook county out of the difficulty if I could only find where they are; but they are divided. I do not know which party to support, those in favor of, or those opposed to the judiciary report. I am sorry that this thing has taken place; that these gentlemen coming gesed o m th oter ay.[Laghtr]from the land of "steady habits"} and peettr-n thlstev em In efeenc tothi mioriy vtin, I"city of brotherly love" should fall outinteya-hrareihhudean do nt tinkit illdo ny ood Iftheamong themselves, and I cannot help ap-seetcae.Taisthrareih majoitybecmesso crrut tat heyplying to them the following beautifulhudeanseetcaewhcpate lines: Let dogs delight to bark and bite, For God has made them so, Let bears and lions growl and fight, - For'tis there nature too. The Clerk read the substitute offered by Mr. Coolbaugh, as follows The circuit court of Cook county shall con sist of seven judges, until their number shall be increased as herein provided. The present judge of the circuit court of Cook county, the present judges of the superior court of Chicago, and the present judges of the re corder's court of the city of Chicago, shall be five of said judges, and shall remain in office for the terms for which they were re spectively elected, and until their successors are elected and qualified. Two of said judges shall be elected on the day on which this Constitution shall be submitted to the people for adoption. Mr. HAINES, of Lake. I would like to know what the amendment is? The CHAIRMAN The amendment is to strike out the original section, and insert what is read by the Clerk. Does the gentleman call for the reading of the amendment? Mr. HAINES, of Lake. I did not hear what was read, but it does not matter, be cause I am against striking out. The question being on the amendment offered by Mr. Coolbaugh, a division was ordered. The committee divided, when, there be ing seventeen in the affirmative and thir ty-two in the negative, the amendment was not agreed to. The CHAIRMAN. The question is now upon the adoption of the section. Mr. HITCHCOCK. Mr. Chairman: I move to strike out the word, "two" ia the fifth line, and insert "three." My reasons for this motion are, that it is the universal opinion of the practicing lawyers of Cook county, that the provision made by this article for the performance of judicial duties in Cook county is inade quate. There have been presented to this Convention, at different times, the peti tions of perhaps half the attorneys of that county engaged in active practice, asking a court or courts of nine judges. I am in receipt of letters satisfying me that there is no difference of opinion among gentle men acquainted with the needs of that county, upon this question. Indeed, I apprehend, that the main object and purpose of petitions to this body, has been to secure a larger number of judges than is provided by this article. There are pending in Cook county, at the present time, in the various courts, no less than seven thousand cases. Upon the trial docket of the circuit court, at the present term —and it holds twelve terms in the gear —there are eight hundred and seventy cases. That is, there are eight hundred and seventy cases which parties propose to litigate, cases which cannot be disposed of by default, or under any short rule to plead or order for- an immediate trial-cases which the attorneys on both sides? are ready to try, and which they are desirous of trying. Yet, it often is impossible, during any one term of that court, at the present time, to dispose of more titan sixty or seventy cases?. it. is often impossible, in ordinary cases, to get; a cause in chancery to a hearing, even after the pleadings are settled, the proofs all in, and the parties ready to be heard, in less than one year. Aftfer they have been heard and taken under advisement,, they cannot be decided, in the ordinary course of proceeding in that court? in less than sizx months. The same condition oyf things exists in the superior court, aned I thlink I may state that, without exception, those best capable of judging, believe that nine judges should be provided~for But children you should never let Your angry passions rise, Your little hands were never made To tear each other's eyes. [Laughter.] So I have no more animosity against Cook county. They have fallen out by the way. I never feel l-ke hurting a fallen foe. If I could understand what they want, there would be no member more willing to help thenm out of their difficulty than myself, although I think they have all the time been against the interests of the farmers of Illinois. The CHAIRMAN. The question is unoon the substitute of the gentleman from Cook [Mr. Coolbaugh]. court, it answers a go od pur pose. I think I am in favor of this court, and more es pecially because the number that they get down to the penitentiary from some court or other that they have ["That's the recorder's court."] Well, it is a good court that does jus tice, and that speedily. I am in favor of the recorder's court too. About the harmony of the delegates from Cook county. It is not expected that there could be complete harmony in the number of delegates that Cook county has-if coming from any other portion of the State. Mr. GOODHUE. Will the gentleman allow me a question? Mr. TINCHER. My time will be short, and as the gentleman comes from a place [Joliet] that is supplied with Cook county delegates [laughter], I hope he will not interrupt at this time. I was going to remark that there are some differences of opinion among the Cook county delegates. But I think it could not be possible to elect anv set of men from Chicago, who would agree upon any particular policy to be adopted for Cook county, and I doubt much now, whether the minds of any of the delegates are exactly in accord with himself, upon all questions. But as there is a difference and a division of opinion, upon the question of the judiciary of Chicago, it now becomes the duty of the people from the rural districts, to step in here and protect the masses of Chicago against this division of their own delegates. And now I appeal to the good sense, and magnanimity, and honesty cf delegates of other portions of the State, notwithstanding the bickerings, and differences of opinion of the class of delegates who "cleaned out the barnacles," to come to th X relief of the people of Chicago. Some gentlemen remark about reflections cast upon their constituency. The greatest possible reflection that can be cast upon them is their own delegation. [Laughter]. There is not any possible way by which any delegate can say as much against Chicago, as they have said themselves. I am inclined to think that Chicago is a very good place. I may, possibly want to move up there, and I am making this speech now, to prepare the way, among the vow populi, as my friend from Cook [Mr. Medill] sug gested to me the other day. [Laughter]. In reference to this minority voting, I do not think it will do any good. If the majority becomnes so corrupt that they cannot elect an honest judiciary, I am inclined to think that the virus will be so strong that it will circulate through the entire body politic, and corrupt the minority also. I believe, under our form of government, majorities ought to rule, and if the city of Chicago becomes 80 bad, that people dare not move there, let them work upon one another until they purify themselves, as a barrel of vinegar purifies itself. [Laughter.] Iam for this superior court. If it be the object, that the judge occupying the bench of the "superior court," thinks himself above the "circuit court," because of the title, I would vote for an amlendment, call it the "inferior court," and take the dignity out of the gentleman [g-reat laughter], and that certainly ~vould remove the objections of a part of the delegation from Cook county. And at the proper time, if that objection i, s MAi?.cia 12) 1870. 1163 f. 114('-TTTOA )NETO AUDY that one hundred and twenty-five thousand inhabitants is a small enough number for a judicial circuit in the country, yet these gentlemen argue that theyv should have a judge for less than fifty thousand inhabitants in the city of Chicago. It was agreed, as I understand, in the committee having this article in charge, that fifty thousand inhabitants should be the basis for a judge in Chicago. And yet, when they have succeeded in carrying that point in this report, they now insist that they shall have eight judges. It does seem to me that if the city of Chicago cannot do her business with one judge for every fifty thousand inhabitants, we can reply to them as she replied to us — "You have incompetent judges." However, I do not propose to use such a flimsy argument. I do not believe that the city of Chicago needs more than one judge for every fifty thousand inhabitants. Now, they claim that there is an undisposed of docket, amountiLg to some seven thousand cases. When we told the gentlemen that the dockets in the country were clogged up with old cases, how did they treat us? Why, then, should we listen to their argument now? Have their dockets accumulated to a greater extent than the dockets in the judicial circuits in the country? I do not understand that they have. We shoulhi be just to every portion of the State, we should not magnify any one part into unnatural importance to the injury of another. We are all common citizens of this great State of Illinois, we all have a common pride in its good, its prosperity, its renown. There should be no desire for op re portion to get the advantage of another portion of the State, there should be no desire for any one member to do injustice to another; and when one portion, however important it may be, seeks that advantage, it becomes the duty of all the others to resist the encroachment, and insist upon justice, not only to one portion, but to the entire State. [Here the hammer fell]. Mr. McCOY. Mr. Chairman: I have but a very few words to say on this subject, and will delay the committee but a very few minutes. I am a member of the Judiciary Committee, and have been willing to afford to Cook county all the facilities in the judicial department I deem necessary. The only question seems to be, what the Cook county delegation desire. I have been in favor of adopting the report, believing that the judicial force there provided is sufficient. I hope the gentleman will withdraw his proposition in this case. It will be regarded as an outrage upon public justice throughout the State of Illinois, to allow Cook county nine judges based upon the population of 1865-giving one judge to each twenty-four thousand inhabitants. Mr. ANTHONY (in his seat). Eight judges to three hundred and fifty thousand. Mr. McCOY. Perhaps it is not so. I take it, it is not so, and I understand now what the gentleman says. In 1865 the population of Cook county was 217,309. Divide that by seven, the number fixed by the committee, and it will give a judge for 31,000 and a fraction. It may be said that the population of Cook county has greatly increased. I admit it. It is equally true that the poput lation of the State of Illinois has increas (',IONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION SATURDAY, 1164 ed-perhaps not in so areat a proportion as Cook county. But never can satisfy the people of the State with this Constitution while it provides for giving Cook a judge to 31,000 population, and that all the rest of the State is to be bound down and have but one judge on a basis of 100,000 inhabitants. I take it to be a monstrous proposition in its proportions and bearings and when contrasted with the judicial service provided for the balance of the State. I am satisfied if there is any one thing that will array hostility against the Constitution, it will be this discrimination in favor of Cook county, as against the State of Illinois. -I therefore cannot support this proposition for a single moment, and I hope that if it is not withdrawn it will be voted down by that kind of a majority that will show that we consider it as an act of injustice to the State, although no injustice was intended, and -Lhat it would operate as a matter Of idjustice to this great State. Mr. PERLEY. Mr.. Chairman: If the statement that ourhonorable President [Mr. 14itchcock] has made is trueand I have no reason to doubt it-that there are seven thousand cases on the Cook county calendars awaiting trial, I do not hesitate to sav that they have a larger number of cses awaiting trial than are accumulated on the trial dockets of all the other courts in this State; and if they need, and ask for another judge, I certainly think they are entitled to have their reqt.est granted. Mr. UNDERWOOD. Mr. Chairman: I would say to the gentleman that there are on the calendar of our circuit court one thousand cases. Mr. PERLEY. On the trial calendar? Mr. UNDERWOOD. No, sir; but on the docket of common law, criminal and chancery cases. Mr. PERLEY. But it is stated that these are cases that cannot be settled that have got to be tried by a jury. If that is so, I believe my declaration is correct. I come from one of the smallest cir cults in the State. We do not need half thejudicial force we have, but that is no reason why Chicago shou.d not have a greater force than she now has, if she needs it. I have no feeling, sir, I am that county. I propose to compromise the question, so far as it is susceptible of compromise, by provid,.-3g fr' eight judges. We shall not then meet the deinadds of that county. I beg gentlemen to consider, when they are taking into consideration the necessities of this county, that the very nature of the business of its population leads to litigation. Men in their coanting-rooms, in their factories, in the board of trade, in a single day, have transactions of debt and credit leading to the possibility of litigation exceeding probably fifty fold the number of transactions of that nature in other counties in the State. Indeed, everv man in the course of a single day in that city, is likely to have a tri'tusaction that ma;- lead to a law-suit. Now, of course,. to meet thin wants of the county, it is requisite that the administration of justice should be speedy, that cases shoulcl not accumulate upon the docket without the means to dispose of them, and I, therefore, have no doubt that it is necessary that eight judges should be provided for the county. Mr. WENDLING. Mr. Chairman: I would like to ask the gentleman who has just taken his seat [Mr. Hitchcock], a question. I would like to have him ex plain the meaning of the last two lines of section thirty, which provide for the election of two judges on the same day this Constitution is to be submitted to the people. Why elect judges at the same time the Constitution is voted upon? Is the exigency so great as to require immediate action? Mr. HITCHCOCK. - It was merely for the purpose of,,providing, at the earliest moment possible, for an increase of the judicial force of that county. Another object was to save the expense of a special election, which is always coinsiderable. As there was no reason suggested why the judges should not be elected upon that day, the provision was adopted. Mr. WAIT. Mr. Chairman: I believe when the proposition was before the committee with reference to the number of inhabitants that should compose a judicial circuit in the county, some of the gentlemen from Cook county claimed that judicial circuits should not have less than one hundred and twenty-five thou - ,sand or one hundred and fifty thousand inbabitantq. p MAc 1- 180vEAE X RCEIG.16 the Whole (Mr. Hayes in the chair), resumed the consideration of the report of the Committee on the Judicial Department. In Cook county there are three hundred thousand or four hundred thousand peo ple. In the districts in whose name and behalf we protested against the one hun dred thousand restriction, there are also three hundred thousand (-,r four hundred thousand people. And, while I conce de Cook county is entitled tl what she demands, I shall demand upon the same principle, until the labors of this Conven tion are closed, that these other districts, contailnidg a population of three hundred thousand or four hundred thousand, have the justice in that regard, to which they have a right. I shall vote cheerfully, as far as I am concerned, for the amenldment of the gen tleman from Cook [Mr. Hitchcock], and I hope all these gentlemen who felt ag grieved by the action of some of the mem bers from Cook county, will act upon Christian principles, and return good for evil, if in fact any (evil has been done. Mr. McCOY. Mr. Chairman: In the remarks I made with reference to the application to this Convention for a chalcge il the number of judges in Cook county, I did not intenideor do I suppose I put it o,n the ground that they did not need the service, but that the difference would indicate to the people of Illinois that there was a discrimination made in favor of Cook county and against the Staie, in placing the State circuits on a basis of one hundred thousand, when in Cook county it was brought down to forty thousand, or probably less. I said nothing in reference to the serv. ice they want, and only know it from the statements of the gentlemen from Cook county on this floor. Mr. WENDLING. Mr. Chairman: I would like to hear the amendment read. The CHAIRMAN. The amendment is CIRCUIT COURT OF COOK COUNTY. The CHAIRMAN. The question is upon the motion to strike out the word "two," in the fifth line of section thirty, and insert "three" in lieu thereof. The Clerk read section thirty, as fol lows: SEc. 30. The circuit court of Cook county shall consist of four judges, until their num ber shall be increased, as herein provided. The present judge of the recorder's court of the city of Chicago and the present judge of the circuit court of Cook county shall be two of said judges, and shall remain in office for the terms for which they we-re respectively elected, and until their successors shall be elected and qualified. Two judges of said court shall be elected on the day on which this Constitution shall be submitted to the people for adoption. The question being upon the motion co strike out "two," in the fifth line, and in sert "three" p n s t a Mr. PARKS. Mr. Chairman: I wish to say a few words. My friend fimom Whiteside [Mr. McCoy], in speaking ill opposition to this motion, said, "I believe that giving an additional judge to Cook coounty is an outrage." I do not think, sir, that askii)g for a judge in this Con vention deserves so strong a stigma as this. The "outrage," if it be proper to use sutch a word in speaking of the ac tion of this Convention, would not be true. It would be, if at all, in the fact Mr. McCOY. Mr. Chairman: If the gentleman will allow me, I will explain. The gentleman from L,,gan [Mr. Parks] is slightly mistaken in what I said. I said it would be regarded as an outrage -iiot that it would be such. Mr. PARKS Very well, Mr. Cha:r man, I did not advert to it at ali int alny unkindness. I do not think any such word would be at all applicablle to the case. The wrong was in the adoptiou by the committee of a restriction of )one hun dred thousand in the State at large. Now, the fact is, at the time I had somte little feeling, and I thought s,,me (,f my friends in the Cook county delegation who could have helped us out, ought to, have done it. I am very well aware, however, that some of them were opposed to the restriction, and I do not thinik atiy ill feeling should be retained towards them. I think before the Convention ad journs finally, the matter will all be righted inasmuch as I have been and still atr in favor of giving the people all the judges they need. I cannot help voti~ig in favor of the emtion of the gentleman from Coi'k, the honorable President of this Convention [Mr. Hitchcock]. His statementsoffacts, numbers and statistics, showing the wants of the people of Cook county, I caInn oti doubt are true. I think, under the cir cunistances, the committee ought to give them an additional judge, and if that makes the inequality more apparent bes tween the county of Cook and other portions of the State, the effect sill be good and ultimately in favor of justice to all parts of the State. If the result shall be that instead of a judge for every 50,000, they are to have one for every 40,000, the effect will only be all the better toward awakening the minds of the Convention i and influencing them to rectify that inequality. JUDICIAL DEPARTMENT. Mr. SHARP. -r. President: I move the Convention do now resolve itself into Committee of the Whole to resume the consideration of the special order. The motion was agreed to. ,So the Convention, as in Committee of 292 i i i 8 t 8 t i t t MA.RCIE 12, 1870. DEBATES AND- PROCEEDINGS. 1165 tration of justice without del v.'I'he expense to the State of an additional judge in the circuit court is but $3,000 'annually. It is a small' item compared with the beneficial results to the State at large. Why, take our merchants, our shippers of hogs, cattle, and everything of that sort, where litigation arises at the point of exchange, with reference to business transactions, and hundreds of dollars are unnecessarily expended by a party on acc)ui.it of delay, in disposing of his case, for want of facilities for the dispo sition of lawsuits of that county. Now, the savidg in rnV judgment, would be much to the people in the State-to business men outside of Chicago-to afford ample faclit.ies for the trial of causes in that city with all practical dispatch. For these reasons, I am in favor of the amendment of the gentlemau from Cook [Mr. Hitchcock]. In other words, a few thousand dollars are but a drop in the bucket. It is of no comparison to the advantages that the people would gain, at large, from the increased number of judges. For these reasons I am in favor of it-not on ac count of local litigation, but in consideration of that which comes from the countrv. Mr. GOODflUE. Mr. Chairman: I move the cotilmittee rise, report progress, and ask leave to sit again at two O"Clock. The motion was agreed to. QUESTION OF PRIVILEGE. Mr. (,,AtY. Mr. Presiderit: I merely wish t(-) say one word in vindication of the officiat stedographers. The geijttemau from Whiteside [Mr. 3,IcC(.)yj referred to some remarks I made the ()tiier day, Stated there were some thing,,i interpolated, and what they were, but (lid riot accuse me of beidg a particeps crimi,?is. I uierely wish to, and can, pt)sitively state that every word the geiitielnau exci —,ptL-d,to as beidg iliterpolated, was uttered by me in the course of my remark,,-. For proof of the truth of this statement, Iif the' g(-utleman is not satisfied with nay word, I -will refer him to the gentleman'from Jersey [,Nlr. KiDg], the ge,iitttujaa from Cook [,LNlr. Camtroyiij, and the ger)tltnian from McHenry [iNIr. Chut,cl —ij, all of whom say they beard the seriteiice whi(,-h lie claims Was ldterpolatt-d, uttere,,l I)y tyie in the course of my re. mark:, in reference to the getjtlemati from Wiiite.-,ide. That is all I have to say. to Strike o-at "two,)) in fifth line, and insert "three." Mr. WENDLTNG. Mr. Chairman: I am in fav,)r of that amendment upon gr(-)uDds which I will state very briefly. ID the first place, however, I desire to say, that I most earnestly protest a-ainst the spirit of utikindtiess add lack of clear. ity which seenas to have animated some gentlemen on this fl)or, this morning, in their strictures upon Cook couD7ty, and the Co(,k county d(-It-gation. I' have no p,ersodal interest whatever in making this assertion. I am impelled to it simply by what I deem cor,,-,iderations of justice atd right. ltbiljk that those gentlemen who represent that great county with all her vast interests, on this floor, arecom petelit judges of what they needfully competent to pass upon the requirements of their own people. ADd I think that when their sentiments and views aro backed up, not only by their known- integrity, au(i their high character a,% gentlemen, but by numerous petition* brought to this ConvetitiOD, it should have great weight with the delegates here a,isemt)led, I repeat that I think the spirit of CaViliDg, fault findig, and criticism against Cook county,, in behalf of other sections of this State, is u-nwar:-ant ed, uii-just, unkind; it is even more. Ois the part of gentlemen chosen to represent the people of this State on this floor, there is at least a presumption of statesman,ship existing amoi3g them, whether it in fact exists oruot. I respectfully submit that we are riqu ning,into a groove altogether too narr(Twi. ADJOURNMENT. Mr.'N[cDOWELL. Mr. President: I move the Couvetition do now adjourn. The motion wasggreed to. Si) the CoDVeiltiOL (at twelve o'clock and thirty-eight minutes), adjourned. .AFTERNOON SESSION. SA.TURDAY, March 12, 1870. The CorveDtion n-iet at two o'cl(ick P. m., and was called to order by the i?residedt. 116 COS1UTOA COY.I~ AUD great and growing city? If we only provide for the present, in a few years there will be a demand pressing upon us even stronger than at the present time, to double the judicial force of the city. And, sir, I think we should manifest a more liberal and broader spirit in our provisions with reference to the necessities and desires of the northern part of the State, the people of which unani mously ask this at our hands, as well as towards every portion of Illinois. I believe, sir, that is all I have to say, with a single additional remark. There is nothing so far as I have discovered, on the part of the Cook county delegation in this Convention, to call for these attacks that have been made, these strictures that have been passed upon, and the spirit that has been manifested here on the part of one or two gentlemen against Cook county. I am not now saying anything against gentlemen who differ from me in opinion on this proposition. I am only alluding to that spirit which has prompted these critical, caviling and cynical remarks against Cook county and Cook county interests. If there has been anything in the conduct of the Cook county delegation that has justified such a course, I have been unable to discover it. I wou'd, in that case, have felt less willing to take the floor to make the re marks I have made. Mr. WAIT. Mr. Chairman: Knowing, as I do, the politics of the gentleman from Shelby [ r. Wendling] it does not surprise me that he should come to the rescue of the delegation from Cook county. If I am rightly informed, every member of that delegation was elected on a ticket in opposition to the regularly nominated republican ticket. Mr. WENDLING. Mr. Chairman: If the gentleman from Henry [Mr. Wait] is under the impression that I took that position because of any political sympa thy with the Cook county delegation, he is entirely mistaken. I had great sym pathy with them in their late contest, and I am glad they are here by virtue of the votes that elected them. They are here, as I understand, by virtue of demo cratic votes, and the votes of honest re publicans. If he is here representing the influence, or the element against which those gen tlemen ran, I would in all kindness and friendship, advise him to immediately resign. [Laughter]. I would whisper to him, in strict con fidence, that that is the most unpopular element in the State of Illinois, as well as the most unworthy and disgraceful, if all be true that is said of it. They were elected in a contest with a class of men that were recognized as —I do not know the exact meaning of the word-but think it is called "barnacle," for short. I am against "barnacles," as I understand the word, no matter whether they be in Central or Northern or South ern ugh em Il or whether they are radicals or democrats. I know nothing of the real merits of the two parties which were made out of one party by the "split" in Cook county, and why I had a pecu liar sympathy with one of those parties, I need not state. If the gentleman has chosen to attack these gentlemen, because of their politi cal course last fall, he is entirely welcome to all the honor he can derive from any such a proceeding. i 1166 CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION SATURDAYI We are acting upon ideas altogether too contracted, when we attempt to find fault with one another because of the section or locality represented by any gentleman on this floor. While I would not presume to dictate to any gentleman his duty, but only express my own idea, I will yet say that our sense of duty should impel us to a broader and more liberal view of the necessities of Cook county, than is indicated by the carpina and sectional spirit exhibited in the remarks made this morning upon this floor. Now, sir, this spirit against Chicago is manifestly uDj ust, and uncalled for on the part of any citizen of the State of Illinois. I feel, as a native Illinoisian, that Chicago is as much uay city as the city of any delegate upon this floor. I have as good a right as any other citizen to be proud of her greatness, of her grandeur, of her vast resources, of the many thousand miles of railroads that center there; of her magnificent depots, avenues, business palaces, and institutions of learning. I have as good a right to be proud of this great commercial metropolis, with her business energy, her intelligence,her newspapers, her literature, and her grand destiny, as she sits there, the Queen of the West, as any gentleman upon this floor. We have all a comirion interest in Chica go. It'should be the object of every Illi noisian to legislate in a manner that will best protect and advance the interests of the city of Chicago. Now, sir, I am credibly informed, and I believe that all the petitions that have been presented upon the subject unite in asking for an increase of the number of their judges. The business of Chicago cannot be guaged by the standard which we bring to the Convention from the country townF3,aiad from the counties that we represent. And I will go further, and say I believe, though I have not the statis tics to support the assertion, that there is more litigation in Chicago for 25,000 peo ple than there is anywhere else for 75,000. It -must necessarily follow from the vast .UuMber of commercial enterprises that are there con4ucted,froua the vast number urance companies and banks, from the vat rumber of grain and stock deal 0 iere purchase the greater por ers, wh -V gild stock of the State. tion of the gi'.IiID. Mr. BROMWELL. Mr. Chairman: WhatI want to speakof, is the matter before the committee. In section tliirteen we struck out the words "exclusive of the county of Cook," the consequence of which is that in finding the ratio of inhabitants for circuits, that is to fix the number of circuits, the population of the entire State is to be divided by one huiidred thousand. Therefore, it follows that every additional judge we give to Cook county, is one judge taken from the rest of the State. Now, I am entirely willing to give Cook county as fair a share as any other part of the State. There iv, no reason in the world wbv she should not have it, but we should make our work correspond with this. If the committee is of opinion that to divide the State entire by one hundred thousand, and then give a certain portion out of that to the city of Chicago, will leave judges enough, for the balance of the State, that is all right. I am not speaking against adding this judue. Tt is only, as remarked by the chairman of the Jdiciary Committee [iNIr. Skinner], a mere question of three thousand dollar.-3 out of the State treasury. It is not a very important question, but I do not want us to go away with our work in any shape, except that in which we intend to have it. If it is true that making these additional judges in Cook county will reduce the -number of judges to,3 much, outside of Cook county, we ought to put back the words we struck out, and say the State should be divided, etc., "exclusive of Cook county." For my own part, sir, I believe that the gentleman from Logaij [,,,Nlr. Parks], who speaks with greater vehemence against this 100,000 clause than any one else, is mistaken in his view of it. If he would fairly consider these circuit courts side by side with the county courts, with their increased jurisdiction, he would not com plain as he does of 100,000 being an av erage. I would therefore inquire what the understanding is as to C,)ok county. Is not that county to have an additional court, over and above the circuit court aL,d the superior court? I tl-iink the bill -provides that Cook county, or all counties having a certain population, can have a probate court set apart, leaving to the county court a class MAROH 12', 1870. DEBATES A1) 1'ROCEEDIGS. 1167 a county court, which does nothing but those of us who here represent Cook the population of the whole State shall those of us who here represent Cook county, are not actuated by any motives other than influence other gentlemen, to wit: the promotion of the public welfare, and I regret that gentlemen have thought it necessary to make the criticisms that they have. Mr. RICE. Mr. Chairman: Iattempt ed to get the floor about the time the gentleman from Coles [Mr. Bromwell] rose. I desired to say a few words for the purpose of pointing out, among other things, a fact to which he has directed the attention of the members of the commit tee. It is true that, according to the rule adopted in committee heretofore, as to the number of judges, taking 100,000 as a basis, there is to be only one judge for each 100,000 population. If that rule is allowed to stand, and we increase the number of circuit judges of Cook county, we lessen the number of judges to which the rest of the State would be entitled eunder that rule. And not knowing whether this Convention or committee will change the rule, so as to relieve the b tlance of the State of the diminution of j udges, by increasing the number of j udges in Cook county, over and above the number reported by the Committee on Judiciary, I feel compelled to dissent from the amendment which proposes to increase that number. I will state, however, that I should have no serious objection to it, if it were not that from the thirteenth section, providing for districting the State, the words "exclusive of Cook county" had not been stricken out, and if the committee had not adopted a provision that the State shall be divided into districts, the judges to be elected upon the basis of 100,000 for each judge. The proposition is so plain that I will not add mnore, for if that rule is to stand, if an addi'tional judge is given to Cook county, the State in districting must losea judge. Myjudgment is that 100,000 for the circuits outside of the city of Chicago is equal, if not in every, in a great many instances, to 50,000 inside of Cook county, when we take into consideration the increased number of local jurisdictions that they have, and that do not exist in most of the other counties. I have not anything to say concerning the by-play about the Cook county delegation. I have not uttered one word or sentiment upon that subject, one way or the other, nor do I propose to do so now. I hope I am incapable of being influenced by any motive, either of ill-will or favor towards the Cook county delegation, or the delegation from any other county. My experience here teaches me that the Cook county delegation are capable of taking care of themselves, and do not deserve either my censure or my praise more than other members of this body. I shall, for the reasons I have given, oppose the motion. Mr. SKINNER. Mr. Chairman: On E account of the remarks of the gentleman from Coles [Mr. Bromwell], and the gentleman from McLean [Mr. Beijamin], I desire to present to the committee what I think is the true state of the case, with regard to the question now under consideration. Section thirteen provides for the division of the Stateinto judicial circuits in which there shall be one judge. Then the amendment of the gentleman from Coles [Mr. Bromwell], provides that in the creation of these judicial circuits, MARCH 123 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1167 the population of the whole State shall be taken in consideration, and the circuits made so that the whole of them will not exceed one for every 100,000. Then we come to the provision in relation to Cook countv courts.' The county of Cook is to constitute one circuit, atid it matters not h(,w many judges they have, for it is a circuit and nothing more. No matter how many judges they have in that circuit, it does not diminish the number in the balance of the State; but, on the contrary, when we come to district the State,under section thirteen as amended, we take into consideration the population of the State, including Chicago. Say the population of the State is 3,000,000, then we may have thirty districts in the whole State. The number of judges will not affect the circuits, because in the same Constitution, Cook county is made one circuit, but with a number of judges for that circuit only. -Air. GOODHUE. Mr. Chairman: I recognize and feel the truth of the statemtnts of the various gentlemen from Cook county with reference to their wants and necessities. I recognize the force of the statement which these gentlemen, all of them, have made, that it would be unjust, unfir and oppressive to adopt as the basis for the number of judges that they may have, population simply. For my part, I am in favor of dealing justly with the people.of Chicago and Cook county. At the same time, it may, perhaps, be proper for me to apoligize to Cook county and the city of Chicago, not that I have said one word a,-ainst the city of Chicago or against Cook county, but because of a little anecdote I am about to relate. I hope there will beuothijag that will make an unpleasant impression upon the feeling of the delegation from that locality. If the Convention will permit, I will allude to a story told of Tom Marshall. Tuomas F. Marshall, of Kentucky, a celebrated man in his day, at one time somewhat astonished the presiding judge by demanding that he hiti-self ought to be fined fof "contempt of court." The court replied that he was not aware of any act on the part of IVIR. Marshall whi'ch could properly be construed as a contempt of court. "It is true," replied Mr. Marshall, "that, I have not committed con.n n ords I ha e ttered a county court, which does nothing but probate business. We have a superior court and a record(zr'.9 court (which is strictly a criminal court). The superior court consists of three judges; the circuit court of one judge. We do not want any municipal courts except the kinds that we have specified in this article. We are perfectly willing that any county in the State, anywhere, may have such county courts as it may wish. We have no necessity for the kind of county court specified in one section of the judiciary report, with civil and criminal jurisdiction. Our legal business will be done in the superior c(.)urt and circuit court. It is a fact, that we have upon our docket, to-day, nearly seven thousand cases, which will undoubtedly be litigated. I do not mean suits brought upon a note, where a man can file a general issue, as in most courts, because under our practice, a short rule may be i aken in any case where a man sues upon a note, and if a defense is not shown, judgment be taken against him. That is not, as -I understand it, to be the practice in other portions of the State. Mr. TINCHER. Could that be made the practice elsewhere? .Air. ANTHONY. I presume it could. It i,-, the practice in the Ujiited States courts, and uo doubt could be introduced elsewhere. The cases on our trial docket are to be fought, they arejury cases, which will be fought straight through. I wish to make one further remark in corroboration of the statement - of my colleague. We have in the city of Chicago a great maiiv insurance cases that are very strongly liti'ated. We have a large number of cases that grow out of transactions of the board of trade-grain cases, contracts for the delivery of grain, warehouse receipts, and all that sort of thing, which, I believe, courts do' nothave in aty other portion of the State. Now, I will say, in corroboration of the statement of the gentleman from Shelby [Mr. Wendling], that he is correctly informed that there has not been a letter received, I believe, from any gentlemari, so far as I have learned, by the Cook county Delegation, for the last few weeks, or any petition sent here, but what has asked us for nine judges. desire to assure ever entleman CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION as The gentleman does not seek to disgrace and demoralize a party that he claims to se be a member of. y, The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman he from Heniry [Mr. Wait] is reminded that es the question under consideration is a m motion to strike out two andinsert three. if Mr. WAIT. That is just the question of that I was speaking to-to strike out. Of Mr. WENDLING. I hope the gentleof mail, in his motion to strike out, will not m be iiitefered with. I am curious to see ti- the result of his attempt to "strike out." Mr. WAIT. I was about to say that ill I believe the gentleman has learned the m word "barnacle" from gentlemen who live at a place called Chicago, and who apply that name to the republican party, unless rs that party does ho, age to a certain numk ber of delegates that are upon this floor. as The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman is to not in order. Mr. HAINES, of Cook. Mr. Chaird, man: I see that this question is likely to s involve the question of the remodel iIg of this article for the whole State. I .- thitk I see it comiAig, and I wish here, t niow, in S_peaking of this question of strik8- iLig out, and adding a judge, to call the attention of the Convention to a question s- that I have a great deal of feeling about. is In section twenty of the article under o consideration, aind which we have already e passed, it is provided that county courts e shall have exclusive appellate jurisdiction :o in all cases of appeal from justices of the peace-that coming up from the masses of r the people, as these cases do, they should d be directly appealed from the justice of if the peace to the circuit courts-those [t courts that the people have all become so 1- well acquainted with. r. Mr. SKINNER. By the amendment made to the printed article in regard to Y that section, county courts remain just the t same as they are, usnless the people of the s locality choose to adopt the increased jurisdiction. e Mr. HAINES, of Cook. I do not so understand it I ani speaking as I underI stated it. If I am wroilg, I stand corrected. X In section twenty-six, in reference to e probate courts, it is provided that the , General Assemnbly may provide for the ~, establishment {of a probate court in such o counties as have over fifty thousand inn habitantts. The result of this will be that e the? next time the Legislature mleets, Coo>k county will have a probate court, which e will do its probate business exclusively, anld our present county court will be the f appellate coro t of the cases that come from f justices of the peace. 3 No>w, what do we findd? Wre find that 1 in the repor~ ~}f the circuit court of Cook 1 cout ty fair 1869, there were two thousand two hundred and fifty-thlree caseJs brought in thant court. Of that number, one tho)u sand atid seventy were appealed cases. LWe findd that in the superior court there -were four thousand nine hundred and [ thirty~seven cases bJro:ught, Of that numb ber, four hundred and ten were appealed cases. Now, as a citizen of Illinois, as a Xdelegate upon this floor, havil g taken an I oath to perfoerm my duties faithfully, I 3shall act in this matter as my independent tjudgment dictates. If I differ from my colleagues, it pains me. : I am opposed to multiplying places Xto incerease our taxres. We are now ~so burdened with taxes that we can hardly exist. We have a mulltiplicityr of local taxesd of county taxes, of Stats e the system of county courts which w, e reported. f Now, Mr. Chairman, I do not propos - to limit this to Cook county. I will sa l however, that if, in the opinion of th - members from Cook county, seven judg L- are not enough to do their business, I a ; in favor of giving them eight; and n eight are not enough, I am in favor o '- giving them more. And if the county o e Logan, or the county of Will complain o g being overcrowded with business, I a e willing that they too should have add - tional facilities. e Mr. GOODHUE. Mr. Chairman: Wi e the gentleman allow me to interrupt him a a moment? e Mr. CARY. Certainly. Mr. GOODHUE. Twenty-five lawyer of my county have sent us a petition ask ireg for an additional force. Are you s willing to grant it as you would be 1 i grant it t) Chicago? - Mr. CARY. 1 h-ave never said a word - Mr. Chairmaian, against giving all the di t tricts in the State all the facilities the r need fo)r transacting their busin(ss, pro t vided it is done in the circuit court; bu u I am opposed to this county court sys , tern. Now, Mr Chairman, how are we to as h certain whether an additional judge i I wanted in Cook county? I know of n X way but to get that information from th menmbers of the Convention from th c (,Cunty of Cook, who are best qualified t ; judge of that matter. Two of these gen tlemen at least [Mr. Anthony and M. Hitchc-,ck] have stated that additiona judges are absolutely necessary. Now, i this is the case, and I have no doubt tha it is, I am ready to vote for the amend iment of the gentleman from Cook [Mr Hitchcock] The municipal court and the county court have been referred to. I do no know what the jurisdiction and power -(of the municipal court of Chicago are. Mr. HITCHCOCK (in his seat). There is no such court. Mr. CARY. There is no such court, am infi)rmted. If it is proposed to form a ciurt of that kind, I do not know the niiec(ssity fir it. It appears to me, sir that it would be better to add this judge as provided by the amendment, than to fi,rm such a court; and with regard to the ciiunty courts, I believe, as I have said befi)re, that their proper jurisdic ltion is the probate business of the county. Therefore, sir, with the intention of always favoring a sufficient number or circuit courts to do the judicial business of the State, acd of opposing the increased jurisdictihin of the county courts, I shall vote fir the amendment. Mr. WAIT. Mr. Chairman: The gen t ledman from Sheliy [Mr. Wendling], per haps misunderstoocd my remarks made a short time ago. I did not intend any personal attack upon that gentlenman. I have always respected him, and will state why. Mr. Chairman. t I understand that the gentleman from Shelby [Mr. Wendling], is an "out and Iout" democrat. He has not lugged his politics in here in an offensive manner at all. But I understand that he desires to promote the good of his party, whenever and wherever he can, in an honorable manner. I respect the gentleman for belonging to some party, and for being wille tng to let the world know where he stands. statements of the gentleman from LaSall [Mr. Eldredge], representing a larg{ county, containing large towns, and o the gentleman from McLean [Mr. Benja min], himself living in a large city, and representing a large county, of the gen tleman from Kane [Mr. Wheaton], him self living in a large city, and represent ing a large county; of the gentlemat from Logan [Mr. ParksJ, himself repre senting a large circuit, in which there are large towns, and myself, also representidn one of the larger counties, in which there are large towns, in relation to the busi ness of our particular circuits, and th necessity of additional judges, should be absolutely and utterly disregarded by gentlemen who insist that an iron rule Should be forced upon us, while they in sist upon a lax, and pliable, and fiexible rule, so far as they are concerned. The argument has been gone over on both sides, and not one man has insisted that population is a fair basis fer this di vision of circuits. I insist that popula tion is merely arbitrary. We are guessing at it. now. If we should come back after a weeks' absence and forget exactly what number we had proposed, we would be as likely to double it, or to divide it by two, as anything else. The arguments made here have shown that population, as a basis of judicial business, is arbitrary and unfair, and ought not to be engrafted in the Constitution. Mr. Chairman and gentlemen of the committee: As I have asked before-what danger is there in leaving this to the Leg islature? When they shall becalled on to divide these circuits. there will be a large assembly of men from all parts of the State. They will discuss the amount of business, the condition of the circuits, the tiare occupied by the judges in the transaction of their business, and after all these facts are laid before the various committees of the senate and house of representatives, these men can sit down and divide the circuits on the basis of bus ine.ss. Thetn, if they make a mistake, it can be corrected by the next General Assembly. But it is insisted that we should adi)pt a rule, in the application of which if there be found mistakes, there can be no redress, except as mistakes in the Con stitution of 1848 were redressed-by pa:ific revolution; by trampling under foot anid vio~lating the Constitution of the State of Illinois It, seems strange that gentlemen should still insilst oxu adopting population as a basis of the judicial circuits, when they know it is ~imlply guessF work —that it is mI philosophical,-that it has no basis upon which the amount of business can be compu'ted. If there is to be any diirness in the constitution of circuits ill the State, it will be found in acting in pursuaince of the very principle I have laid down and that is the amount of business-judicial business~ [Here the hammer fell]. Mr. CARY. Mr. Chairman: I suppose that with consistency I can support -the amendment offered by the gentlemlan from Cook [Mr. H~itchcock], because, sir, in all that I have said onl this question, 1 have argued in favor of furnishing thle people of this State all the facilities they need for transacting their business in cireuit courts. I have done this, because I believe that they will thus get more speedy justice, and that these courts will be more satisfactory to the people than'* 1168 SATURDAY) MA~~~~cH 12, 1870. DEBATES ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~D PROCEEDIXGS. 1169~~~~~~~~~~~~ rior court and justices of the peace, and those are all the courts provided for, all -the courts we are to have. Let us have no misunderstanding about it. I speak of this that we may not get astray on this point hereafter. We are not to have any probate court at all, it seems. It is not here provided for. I would be willing to go to the extent of anybody; but when I insisted that the country outside of Cook county demanded something from this Convention, it was voted down. Now, when some members upon this floor ask that Cook county shall have just double what any other district of the country asks for and will get, I must say that I cannot consent, because the people will not consent. The people of the State of Illinois who pay their portion of the taxes for the purpose of giving a judiciary to Cook county, will not concur. I would have no objection to seeing all the judicial force there, necessary; but until the gentlemen asking for this additional force, show how this inequality is to be explained before the people, and the reason why, I cannot concur. If they will go with us and say fifty thousand shall make a circuit outside, then I concur with this additional demand which has been asked for, on the part of the members from Cook. Mr. UNDERWOOD. MIr. Chairman: I am disposed to look upon this question as on any other that comes before the Committee of the Whole or Convention. I hope it is the purpose of all delegates to make a fair Constitution, that will meet the wants of everybody, and at the same,time will not have such features as will have a tendency to defeat that Consti tution before the people. What is the provision in this Constitution for the judiciary in Cook county? They have heretofore had five circuit judges. The proposition of the Judiciary Committee is to give them two more circuit judges. I see by a document that has been placed upon our tables, that the number of suits in the circuit, superior and recorder's courts of Chicago last year, were eight thousand one hundred and thirty-two. The number disposed of was six thousand nine hundred and thirtytwo, leaving a little over one thousandcases not disposed of. s Mr. ANTHONY (in his seat). That was in the circuit court. Mr. UNDERWOOD. No, sir; in all three of the courts. lNow, what is the provision in this article? Cook county and the city of Chicago get the benefit of all the other courts provided for in the Constitution. Theyth will have a city court of the first class, which will probably be equivalent t a circuit court. In addition to that, Cookcounty will be entitled to another court under the provision giving the Legislature the right to create a probate court, with increased jurisdiction, where the population is over fifty thousand. In addition to that Cook county will have provided inferior courts unlimited in number, having jurisdiction up to two hundred dollars. Now, sir, if, with all these courts and judges, they cannot disposeof their law cases, it strikes me as very extraordinary. In most matters I would pay great deference to the oninions of delegates from Cook county, but the delegates from that county gave these courts to the Commit taxes, and then, on top of those, come ten thousand government taxes that permeate the very air we breathe. Now, sir, if we are to put upon these county courts appeals from justices of the peace, I put it to my colleagues, and to the members of this Convention, whether it will not so unload these circuit courts, and courts having concurrent jurisdiction, that we shall need less judges than we now think. It will be well for us to pause and consider this question well before we undertake to decide it. lMr. HAINES, of Lake. Mr. Chairman: I think I speak the sentiments of the people when I say that they are perfectly willing that we shall provide all the judicial force necessary for the transaction of the judicial business of the State, and that they have not called us here for the purpose of putting around the organization of the judiciary the restrictions we have, in regard to ttie extent of the territory of judicial circuits' As the gentleman from Will rMr. Goodhue] has well remarked, there is no principle that justifies the rules that we have adopted, and we can never carry it before the people, together with other things that we are insisting upon. We must take into account that the rising members of the bar consider that it is a great honor to sit upon the bench. Here we have limited the extent of these j adicial districts and cut off the hopes of certain portions of the bar. We have established 100,000 population as the rule of the extent of a judicial district, except as to Cook county, and here the rule has been changed. I declared that it was my opinion in the beginning, when this matter was under consideration, that it was not population but the necessity of the locality that should regulate the judicial force. The Committee of the Whole voted otherwise, and that is its determination. In Cook county we propose to adopt the rule of one judge for about every fifty thousand. The gentleman from Shelby [Mr. Wendling] says we must have some regard to the future. He is a new convert to the interests of Cook county, and I am very glad to hear from him in regard to his opinions of the future. Whilst nearly all I possess depends more or less upon the prosperity of Chicago and Cook county, I ask if there is no other place to which we ale to look for the future except the city of Chicago? The city of Quincy; has it no future? The city of Springfield; bas it nlo future to legislate upon? East St. Louis, Alton, and Cairo, that modern, mniraculous city, that in times to comne is to eclipse its ancient namesake —and the city of Rock Island —have all these no future commianding our attention? No, it would seem not! As the gentleman from Shelby [Mr. Wendlingj would have it, the future all centers in a point toward the north pole, in one city, having all this terrible wickedness spoken of. But sac are told by some that in the city of Chicago we are to have other courts than those mentioned; that is to say we are to have other courts besides the circuit, superior and recorder. I do not so understand it. I have before me the article fHe Cook counlty. Here we look for' all the remedy providing for Cook county, concerping courts. The committee have provided for a recorder's court, they have provided for the circuit court and swe 293 DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. MIRO]A 12) 1870. 1169 tee upon the Judiciary, and this report was prepared at their instance, and in conformity'with their supposed wants. Now, take the census of 1865, and we will fand that the population of Cook county was only about 217,000-and it is' not now probably over 250,000; and in making our estimate we must take that into consideration, as it gives them one circuit judge for every 50,000 population. We must bear in mind that when we submit the Constitution to the people it should be one which they will probably accept; one that will be equitable on its face, and fair towards all parts of the State. We have provided for circuits in the State with a population of not less than 100,000 each. I know we can tell the people that Chicago, being a large commercial city, will want more courts in proportion to the population than in other portions of the State; but there is fear that they will say the disparity is too great, and is unreasonable and unjust to other cities and other portions of the State. We must have our eyes open, and endeavor to banish the prejudice which exists in the minds of the people. There is no man but knows that at this time there is, and will be for sometime, a very deep feeling of dissatisfaction towards the city of Chicago throughout the State, on account of her taxpayers having in their pockets over $130,000 that ought to be in the treasury of the State. - No one can dispute this, and the people will watch and cantrast everything in relation to the city of Chicago and Cook county and the rest of the State. Again, during the whole of this session every observer has noticed that the influence of Chicago papers has been used to prevent Southern and Central Illinois from getting such aid by local, city and county subscriptions as they think they require to get railroads to St. Louis. Chicago has had the benefit of such subscriptions, and has her railroads in the main completed, while she now for the first time presses the argument of unconstitu. tionality against the proposed connection with St. Louis from the southern and central portions of the Stat,e. We cannot prevent the people from takil3g notice of such things, and if we want our Constitution adopted, we cannot o before the eo le without kee in 117 ()fTTTOA OY~iO AUDY tion of 1848. I do it in order to leave , something for the General Assembly to do after we adjourn. If it is desired to dispose of this court in any way, I would like to leave the Constitution in that re. spect, as it was revised in 1848. The same - provision was made in regard to that court, at that time. This leaves the mat ter so that the court can be reorganized T in any manner that the General Assembly t shall think proper. The growing interests of Chicago, of course, are to be taken into account here, and we cannot conceive what may arise at some time in the future. I therefore do not myself think that it is best to tie I up the General Assembly, so that they t will be unable to provide for contingen cies that may arise hereafter. I do not : look upon our labors here as some do, that the people will regard them so fa vorably, that they will try the experim: ent of any other Convention, again very soon. It is, therefore, proper to leave the s General Assembly something to do in rea gard to the courts of Cook county. Mr. CODY. Mr. Chairman: I desire the attention of the committee for a mno ment, while I speak to the motion of the , gentleman from Lake [Mir. Haines], and also allude to the vote that has just been taken. I should have conceived it to be my duty as a member of the Committee on i Revision and Adjustment to cut out the words that I moved should be striken out, because they seem to be entirely unnecessary, the same point having been fully provided for in another section of this article. The committee has seen fit to vote not to strike out those words, and if the Committee on Revisionand Adjust ment should conceive that to be an in. struction, I think the instruction is wrong. I am of opinion that if the gen tlemen of the committee had given their attention to the motion, they would have , been unanimnously in favor of striking out the words, as the chairman of the Ju diciary Committee and several other members of the committee spoke about it at the time as eminently proper. That question, however, is settled for the pres ent. I desire to call attention to the motion of the gentleman from Lake [Mr. Haines], to strike out the section and insert some thing in its place. Now, I was about to move to strike out the section without inserting anything in its place. The first section of the j udiciary article provides that the courts of record other than circuit courts now existing in the cities of this State, shall be continued until other wise provided by law. The Convention in Committee of the Whole, by a larger vote than by which they have pronounced the decision this forenoon, has already decided to continue the superior court of the city of Chicago, in the first section of this judiciary article. Hence it was no surprise to me,that when that motion was put this forenoon, members voted as they did. Now, by that section the superior court is continued, and by the same section that I alluded to when I was last on the floor, section forty-seven, the last portion of~this section is provided for. The CHAIRMAN. Will the gentle. man allow the Chair to correct him in regard to the first section. It provides that courts established in and for cities shall be continued. It is not the recollection of the Chair th at courts h aving jurisdic tion throughout counties, were continued. Mr. CODY. I beg the pardon of the Chair, but I still think I am right. I have a copy of the first section as it was adopted, which provides that the courts of record, other than the circuit courts, now existing in cities of the State, shall be continued until otherwise provided by law. Does not that apply to the superior court of the city of Chicago? Mlr. ANTHONY. I will inform the gentleman that it never was a city court. Mlr. CODY. That being the case, I am glad to be corrected. I move to strike out the last part of the section, for the reason that it is provided for in sec tion forty-seven, which provides that all officers in office at the adoption of this Constitution, shall remain in office for the terms for which they were elected-so that there can be no necessity to provide in two or three different places for re taining these officers to the end of their terms. Mr. ANTHONY. As the gentleman is chairman of the Committee on Revision and Adjustment, I have perfect confidence that he will strike out unnecessary words; but I trust this will not be strickcn out now, for the reason that it expressly re fers to the superior court of Chicago. I have no objection to general language being employed in any portion of it, but I think it should be carefully considered. Section forty-seven may or may not cover it; I do not undertake to say that it does or does not; but I do not desire to have it stricken out at the present time, at least. Let it go to the Commit tee on Revision and Adjustment, and if the language is sufficiently broad to keep them in office, I shall not object. MIr. CODY. At the suggestion of the gentleman from Cook [Mr. Anthony], I withdraw the motion. The CHAIRMAN. The question is upon the motion of the gentleman from Lake [Afr. Haines], to strike out and insert. The motion was not agreed to. The CHAIRMAN. The question now is on the section. Section thirty-one was agreed to. JTUDGES OF TIHE SUPERIOR COURT OF CII CAGO. The Clerk read section thirty-two, as follows: SEC. 32. The General Assembly may increase the number of said judges, by adding one to either of said courts, for every additional.:fifty thousand inhabitants in said county over and above a population of three hundred and fifty thousand. M~r. HAINES, of Lake. Mr. Chairman: I move to strike out 50,000 and insert 100,000. Mr. B3RO{W:ELL. Mr. Chairman: I wish to inquire of the chairman of the Judiciary Committee whether that would not give power to the Legislature to create a new judge in each court of Cook county upon fifty thousand additional inhabitants ~ It seems to mle that that might be so construed. Mr. TUJRN:ER. Mr. Chairman: I think the language cannot be so construed. The lang,uage is: "By adding one to either of said courts" The Legislature can add one judge to the circuit court or one to the superior court, whichever they choose. That word "either" limits it clearly to one court, so that they can only add one j udge for every additional, SUPERIOR COURT OF COOK COUNTY. The CHAIRMAN. The Clerk will read section thirty-one. The Clerk read section thirty-one, as follows: SEe. 31. The superior court of Chicago shall be continued, and called the superior court of Cook county. The present judges of said court shall remain in office for the terms for which they were respectively elected, and until their successors shall be elected and qualified. Mr. HAINES, of Lake. Mr. Chairman: I move to strike out the section and insert the following. The Clerk read the substitute as follows: The superior court of Chicago shall be continued, as now existing, until changed by law. M1r. HAINES, of Lake. Mr. Chairman: I do this to make it correspond to the Constitution i s it now istlte Constitu. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION 1170 SATURDAY7 disposed to criticise; and if we give a circuit judge for less than fifty thousand, it should be with a full determination to give, also, to all other portions of the State just as many judges as their business requires. This much we must demand. Wecan-not ask lesswithoutinjustice to our constituents in other parts of the State. The CHKIR'NIAN. The question is on the amendment of the gentleman from Cook [Mr. Hitchcock], to strike out the word ".two," in the fifth line, and insert the word "three." - A division was ordered. The committee divided, when, there being twenty-seven in the affirmative and eighteen in the negative, the amendment was agreed to. Mr. BROMWELL.'Mr. Chairman: This first line provides for four judges, and no more. That should be amended. Mr. HITCHCOCK. Mr. Chairman: I move to strike out "four" in the first line, and insert "five," simply to conform this action of the committee to the action already taken. The motion was agreed to. Mr. CODY. Mr. Chairman: I move to strike out, from the word "judges," in the fourth line, down to, and including the word "qualified" in the fifth line. I make this motion, because it is provided in this report, page eighteen, in section forty-seve-n All who may be in office at the adoption of this Constitution, shall continue to hold their offices until the expiration of the terms for which they were respectively elected. That renders this clause unnecessary. Mr. Sli:INNER. Mr. Chairman: The Committee on the Judiciary, by sub-committee, revised this courts article very carefully, except as to Cook county, in regard to which there was no such revision. I would suggest that it is perfectly apparent that this language ought to be stricken out as wholly unnecessary, because the general provision at the end of the article embraces the whole-that is, that all officers shall continue until their successors are elected and qualified, etc. The question being on the adoption of the amendment offered by Mr. Cody, a division was ordered. The committee divided, when the motion was not agreed to. M~~~~~oH 12,1870. DEBATES A~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~D PRO~~~~~~~~~~~iEEDI~~~~~~~~~~GS. 1171~~~~~~~~~~~~ The CHAIRMAN. If no objection is made, the section will be considered adopted. The Clerk will read the next section. POWERS OF JUDGES OF SUPERIOR COURT CHICAGO. The Clerk read section thirty-four, as follows: SEC. 34. Any judge of either of said courts shall have all the powers of a circuit judge, and may hold the court of which he is a mem ber. Each of them may hold a different branch thereof at the same time. The CHAIRMAN. If no objection be made, the section will be adopted. The Clerk will read the next section-section thirty- five. CHIEF JUSTICE OF SUPERIOR COURT OF CIHICAGO. The Clerk read section thirty-five, as follows: SEC. 35. The judge having the shortest un expired term shall be chief justice of the court of which he is a judge. In case there are two whose terms expire at the same time, it may be determined by lot. Mr. BROWNING. Mr Chairman: I move to amend the section by inserting after the word "two," the words "or more." We have provided for electing three judges at one time. The CHAIRMAN. The question is on the amendment of the gentleman from Adams [Mr. Browning]. The amendment was agreed to. The CHAIRMAN.- The question now is on the section as amended. Section thirty-five, as amended, was agreed to. SALARIES OF JUDGES, ETC., OF THE SUPE RIOR COURT OF CHICAGO. The CHAIRMAN. The Clerk will read the next section-section thirty-six. The Clerk read section thirty-six, as follows: SEC. 36. The judges of said courts, and the State's attorney in said county, shall receive the same salaries, payable out of the State treasury, in the same manner as is or may be paid to the circuit judges and State's attor neys of the State, and such further compen sation, to bepaid by the county of Cook, as is or may be provided by law. Such compensation shall not be changed during their continuance in office. w Mr. ROSS. Mr. Chairman: We have made no provision, so far, for paying county attorneys out of the State treas ury. I thinkl it is not the theory of the Conmittee of the Whole, if we have county attorneys, to pay them out of the State treasury, but out of the county treasury. I think it will be better to leave the provision out. I therefore move to strike out the words "and State's attorneys," in the first and r third lines. Mr. ANTHONY. Mr. Chairman: I desire to say to the gentleman that State's attorneys are paid out of the State treasury at the present time. I suppose it was fully understood in the Judiciary Conremittee, by every member, that they were to be paid out of the State treasury. Mr. ROSS. I am aware that they are paid out of the State treasury now, and under the present arrangement I think it is very proper. But when we have a State's attorney in each county, it is a very different thing. This subject was considered before the Com" ittee on Counties, and it was thought best to leave the subject in the hands of the county board of supervisors, fifty t housand, and they may do it to either the one or the other. The CHAIRMAN. The question is upon striking out fifty thousand and in serting one hundred thousand. The motion was not agreed to. Mr. CHURCH. Mr. Chairman: I now move to strike out 350,000 and insert 400,000. Having increased the number of judges, as reported by the committee, the amendment, I think, should be made, so that the increase should only commence after 400,000, instead of commencing after 350,000. I make this motion, thinking that per haps the Convention may not refuse to concur with the amendment made by the Committee of the Whole, and if the Con vention does concur in this amendment, whereby there will be eight judges, I think the power ought not to be given to the General Assembly to increase until there is a population of 400,000; because my opinion is that with the other facili ties that have been afforded by the article, so far as it is adopted, eight judges must be ample to transact the business. I was not in favor of increasing the number to eight. the CHAIRMAN. The question is upon the amendment of the gentleman from McHenry [Mr. Church]. The amendment was agreed to. Mr. HAINES, of Cook. Mr. Chair nan: If there is any question about what the meaning of this section is, I move to amend by adding after the word "judges," in the first line, the words "in Cook coun ty." Then it would read: The' General Assembly may increase the number of said judges in Cook county. Mr. BROWNING. It means that now Mr. HAINES, of Cook. There has been a question raised by the gentleman from Coles [Mr. Bromwell] as to what it does mean. The CHAIRMVIAN. The motion is not seconded, and cannot be enterained. Mr. WAGNER. Mr. Chairman: I move to strike out "to either of said courts," in the second line, thus giving au additional judge.~ Mr. CHURCH. I hope these words will not be stricken out. My recollection is, that these words were considered by the committee important, to prevent adding one judge to both courts. As the section now stands, there can be only one judge made. for an additional fifty thousand inhabitants. The words "either of sa'd courts" were put in as a limitation. With these words stricken out, there might be great doubt} (and doubts were raised by members of the committee,) as to whether it might not he construced into a power to create a juldge for each or both courts. Tile CHAIRMAN. The question is to strike out "to either of said courts." The mo~tion was not agreed to. The CHAIRMAN. The question is on the adoption of the section as amended. Section:E thirty-two, as amended, was agreed to. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. -HAmcH 121 1870. 1171 who could best determine what amount it would be proper to pay, because, for in stance, there is no equality in giving a prosecuting attorney to do the business for Calhoun county, the same as in San gamoia county. The board of supervisors can regulate the compensation by the amount of labor performed. They protect theinterests of the county treasury, and they would look into the value of the services rendered by prosecuting attorneys, and regulate their compensation in a corresponding ratio. Mr. HITCHCOCK. Mr. Chairman: I desire to call attention to the fact that if no provision is made for the payment of such attorneys out of the State treasury, then, of course, this section will be inop erative. It does not require that any compensation should in fact be paid by the State to the State's attorney of Cook county, unless,,either by the Constitution itself or by some provision of law here after, the State's attorneys throughout the State shall receive their compensation from the State treasury. In such case the attorney of Cook county would take his pay in the same way and to the same ex tent, and if he should be paid any addi tional compensation, the burden would be imposed upon the county of Cook. Mr. TURNER. Mr. Chairman: I apptehend that this attempted chadge-to have what is called a "State's attorney" in every county-may result in the entire abrogation of their salaries being paid by the State. If that should not be the case, the effect of that language is to limit the salary of the State's attorney in Cook county to the same suni that is paid other State's attorneys-tbat is, that portion of it which is paid by the State, so that the people of Cook county cannot come down here, and represent that the State's attorney of that county has more business to do than the State's attorneys of other counties, and therefore ask a larger salary for him. That is the sole object of its being in the section, I think., The CHAIRMAN. The question is upon the motion of the Gentleman from Fulton [Mr. Ross] to strike out the words "State's attorneys" where they occur in the section. The amendment offered by Mr. Ross was not agreed to. The CHAIRMAN. The uestion is TERMS OF THE J7UDGES OF THE S7UPERIOR COURT OF CHICAGO. The CHAIRMAN. The Clerk will read the next section-section thirtythree. - The Clerk read section thirty-three, as follows: SEc. 33. The terms of office of the judges of said courts, except as herein otherwise provided, shall be s x years. 1172 COSTITLITIOXAL COYETIOX ATUR1)AY the "criminal court of Cook county." It shall have the jurisdiction of a circuit court, in all cases of criminal and quc i criminal nature, arising in the county of Cook, or that may be brought before said court pursuant to law; and all recognizances and appeals, taken in said county in criminal and quasi criminal cases, shall be returnable and taken to said court. It shall have no jurisdiction in civil cases, except in those on behalf of the people and incident to such criminal or quasi crimin al matters, and to dispose of unfinished business. The terms of said criminal court of Cook county, shall be held by one or more of the judges of the circuit or superior court of Cook county, as nearly as may be in alternation, as may be determined by said judges, or provided by law. Said judges shall be exofficio judges of said court. The CHAIRMIAN. If there is no objection that section will be declared adopted. The Clerk will read section thirtyeight. CLERK OF THE RECORDER'S COURT OF CHI CAGO. The Clerk read section thirty-eight, as follows: SEC. 38. The present clerk of the recorder's court of the city of Chicago, shall be the clerk of the criminal court of Cook county, during the term for which he was elected. The present clerks of the superior court of Chicago, and the present clerk of the circuit court of Cook county, shall continue in office during the terms for which they were respectively elected, and thereafter there shall be but one clerk of the superior court to be elected by the qualified electors of said coun-. ty, who shall hold his office for the term of four years, and until his successor is elected and qualified. The CHAIRMAN. If there is no objection, section thirty-eight will be dec lar ed adopted. The Clerk will read section thirtyneys, Cerk though itshoule o nine.d man: I sh ould like to hear the amend- c ment read. The Clerk read the amendment offered c by M r. McDowel l, as f ollows:. I ns ert aft er the word "State," in the third line, the words, "but no more than other circuit judges of the State receive, basing the pay upon the population of the circuit." Mr. BROMWELL. Mr. Chairman: I do not know that I understand the amendment exactly. ["I do."] If I do, it means to say that the county of Cook shall pay part of the expenses of the judges. If that is so, it does not seem to me fair, because when there is such an increase of business, there is always an increase of wealth, and with, increased wealth there is an increased taxation, which goes into the State treasury, out of which comes the pay of judges. This is the wav it strikes my mind. Mr. TINCHER. Mr. Chairman: If the gentleman from Coles [Mr. Bromwell] will allow, I will explain. If Cook county gets one judge for every fifty thousand, and the other districts get one judge for one hundred thousand, and pay in proportion to population of districts, the judges in the country or rural districts would get double the amount of a judge in the city of Chicago. The question being on the amendment offered by Mr. McDowell, it was not agreed to. Mr. SEDGWICK. Mr. Chairman: In order to make the third line perfectly plain, I move to insert after the word "State," the words "out of said treasury." As the language now stands, it is that they shall receive the same salary out of the State treasury as other State's attorneys, even though it should be paid out of the county treasury. This amendment would prevent any doubt as to the meaning of the section in this respect. Mr. PERLEY. Mr. Chairman: I would suggest that if the gentleman would take the words "payable out of the State treasury" from the second line, and put them in the third line, after the word "State," he would gain what he is seeking. The question being on the adoption of the amendment offered by Mr. Sedgwick, it was not agreed to. Mr. HAINES, of Cook. Mr. Chairman: I move to stt ke out after the word "State" in the third line, to and including the word "law" in the fourth line. I do this because I am opposed to two kinds of compensation. Why should the circuit judge and the State's attorney in Cook county receive a larger salary than the same officers do in any other county? I amn opposed to Cook county paying any additional salaries. If adopted, as the section stands, every time the Legislature mleets we will have a lobby influence from Cook ccwnty, to have their salaries increased oult of the county treasury. Therefore I move to strike those words out. The question being on the amendment offered by Mr. Haines, of Cook, it was not agreed tO. Section thirty-six was agreed to. The CHAIRMAN. The Clerk will read section thirty-seven. SALARIES OF COOK COUNTY COURT OFFI CIALS. The Clerk read section thirty-nine, as follows: SEC. 39. The clerks of all courts of record, the treasurer, sheriff, coroner and recorder of deeds, in said county of Cook, shall receive salaries for their services, to be fixed by law, which shall be payable quarterly, out of the treasury of said county, and which shall not be changed during their terms of office; but in no case shall the highest salary of either of said officers be as much as the compensation allowed by law to a judge of the circuit court of Cook county. Said courts shall determine by rule. to be entered of record, the number of assistants to be employed by the clerk, and their compensation shall be fixed by law, and paid quarterly out of the treasury of said county, and shall not be increased during their terms of office. All fees, perquisites and emoluments of every kind incident to litigation in said courts, shall be collected in such manner as shall be provided by law, and paid into the treasury of said county. Mr. rURNER. Mr. Chairman: I am inclined to think that this section will be adopted without change, and the amendment that I now propose, I offer for th e purpose of stating as briefly and clearly as possible, what may be the result if we adopt the section without alteration. I have been opposed to that section all the time, for the reasons which I will proceed to give. I move therefore to strike out of this section the last clause: All fees, perquisites and emoluments of every kind, incident to litigation in said courts, shall be collected in such manner as shall be provided by law and paid into the treasury of said county. From what I have learned since I came here, as well as from what I knew before I came, I suppose it will be necessary to make some provision in regard to the payment or limi tation upon th e payment of Co ok county officers. It is proposed by this section to give all the officers enumerated therein salaries, and that the clerks shall not receive higher salaries than the judges. That at first blush may appear to be fair and proper, and probably is so. But, sir, if weare to credit the statements which were made in the newspapers during the canvass for members of the Convention, and if we are to credit the statements made by the members of this Convention from Cook county, (and I have no reason to doubt these statements), those officers are by law at present paid extravagant compensation for their services. It is charged that the clerk of the circuit court receives from fees, $80,000 a year; the Treasurer, about $60,000; the sheriff about $40,000; the coroner $15,000 to $20,000; the three clerks of the superior court, the aggregate of from $45,000 to $50,000; the county clerk, $30,000; making a grand total of $270,000. Now, by this section, we provide that all these fees shall be paid into the treas. ury of Cook county, and that out of that large sum there shall be drawn for the payment of the salaries of these officers, say at the rate of $3,000, making the maximum of salaries $18,000, leaving a balance of $252,000 in the treasury, to pay the interest upon the county debt, or to be distributed as the board of supervisors see proper by appropriations. That would pay the interest at ten per cent. on a county debt of $2,500,000. Now, let us see where that large sum is derived from. The point I make is a constitutional point, a point that lies at the foundation of things. We have a provision in our Constitution that taxes sh~l1 be uniform. The tax payers of the county of Cook are taxed upon their property, just as other properto holders are taxed throughout the State. In addition to that the property holders, the men who buy lots of land, and pay for recording deeds with the men who are suitors in court, pay into the treasury of Cook county, in addition to their taxes, $252,000. It may be said that we need not complain if the people of Cook county do not. But let us see that that burden does not fall upon Cook county. Why is it that Cook county has so much more litigation than any other county in the State? It is because there is the great market to which our people go to purchase their goods. They make their contracts ill Chicago, they are sued in Chicago, the people all over the State are tasxed upon these law suits, and the fees go into the county treasury of Cook county, to be paid out by that county in payment of its debts. Again, every man who goes to Chicago and buys a tract of land, must pay a dollar and a halt, or such a matter, to get his deed recorded. That dollar and a half goes into the county treasury. N~ow, the point I~ desire to make and to impress upon this Committee of the Whole, is this, that instead of this latter clause, which I ask to have stricken out, we should insert another section, which I shall be prepared to offer, when the proper time comes, (if this is stricken out), providing that the General Assembly shall graduate the fees of officers in Cook county, so as to pay simply the salaries and expenses of ahese officers.s I I I CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION SATURDAY7 1172 RECORDF,R'S COUITT OF CHICAGO. The Clerk read section thirty-seven, as follows: SEc. 37. The recorder's court of the city of Chicago shall be continued, and shall be called ,c12 1 0D B T DG. I1173 e This section has been a stumbling block at to me, while desiring to accommodate my ss own views to those of the delegation s- from Cook county, in deference to their [e knowledge of their own wants. There n has been no explanation of this section. t What are the facts? By the Constitxr. tion we frame we provide that all fees d shall be established by general law, and s be uniforrm; they must be the same in t. Cook county as in Hardin county. d The real fact is this: That in the i- smaller counties thetariff of fees estab. e lished by general laws is barely enough t to keep the courts in motion, and afford s a mere living to the public officers. But i when you come to the higher grade of t counties, the offices are more valuable, t and are more sought after. When we - come to the city of Chicago, by the s showing of the gentleman, one officer re ceived $80,000 per year. The clerk of , one court receives $80,000 per year. By r the gentletman's own showing, there is e $80,000 paid by the people to make these officers-sheriffs, clerks, etc., so rich and V powerful as to be dangerous to the rights and liberties of the people where thev live. Take this for granted, make fees uniform, and they are so startling in I amount, that we cannot avoid correcting I the palpable evil The proposition to amend is practica ble. It comes squarely to the mark. It uproots the monstrous wrong. Now, I - am in favor of it, for there can be no anL swer to the propositions of the gentle man from Cook [Mr. Meedill]. We have yielded largely in the Com mittee on the Judiciary, and in Commit tee of the Whole, although my friend from Cook [Mr. Anthony] was too exact inlg, we thought, in his demands. He must have it just so, or no way. But I have yielded deferentially and good na turedly. Here then is a palpable case of evil. Now, it can be partially if not totally cured a-jd the people of the State can be saved this stealing that has been complain ed of. I offer this amendment: Add at the end of the section, "which fee, shall be one-half only that provided by the general laws of tue State for like services and fees." Then. the effect is precisely this: The fees in Cook county are onehalf what they are in the rural counties of the State, and at that snake very fat offizes.s The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman from Adams [Mr. Skinner] moves to add to the section as it stands the words that. have been read. That will be a proposition to amend the words proposed to be stricken out by the motion of the gentleman from Ste'^ phenson [Mr. Turner]. It takes precedenice therefore of the motion of the gen* tleman fromn Stephenson [DIE Turner]] The Clerk will read the amendment oif the gentl-eman fromn Adams [Mr. Skinner], The Clerk read the amendmaent offered by Mr. Skinner, as follows: Add at the end of the section:: "~ which fees shall be one-half only that provided by the general laws of the State for like services and fees." Mr. RICE. Mr. Chairman: This is a very difficult practical question. The principle involved in it is clear enough, but to devise somIe practical measure that shall accomplish thle desired end is nc~ so very ea-sv. of tionably inordinate cempensation for th p- services performed. I think the amoun c stated, in the heat of our political canva er last fall, by the newspapers that were a ill sailinJg what was called "the barnacl et ticket," was considerably exaggerated i] in regard to most of these officers. I do no believe any of them made $80,000 a year a- I do not believe the sheriff's office netted at $40,000, or that the county treasurer' to Mffice is worth $50,000 a year clear profit i Still there is no doubt, these offices yield d a great deal too much money. The terri g ble, disgraceful and demoralizing scramble e in our county for these (,ffices, prove tha d they are exceedingly lucritive; and thi h Convention can do the people of Coo} e county, the republican party of tha ts county, no greater service in the interes - of purity, peace and unity than by mak - ing the compensation of these fat office, y comparatively lean. I pledged myself to my constituents y by voice and vote, to do all in my power , to reduce the pecuniary value of these at o(ffices. They are too fat undoubtedly I They are corruptingly lucrative. They y should be cut down largely. In my mind, it is only a question y whether the people would not receive , more benefit by reducing the fees and e saving the money to the individual and e tax payer, in the first instance, than by a attempting to collect the fees, pay the -officers out of them, and place the residue to the credit of the treasury. I am fearl fuil that a very small residue ever would , find i's way into the treasury. I am ap1 prehensive that, with the multiplication of deputies, there would l)e little of the e money left. There would be a lack of activity on the p)art of officers, and of s fidelity also. They would be constantly pressing the judges to add more deputy - clerks anld sheriffs, more deputy recorders, I more deputy treasurers, and to pay them - highier salaries, until finally they would devour the last dollar of fees collected v from these immense sources of income, and the reform would be a fiat failure. If this Convention desires to confer on t Cook county, and on the people else, where, who do business there, any benefit, let it first reduce the fees and perquisites -of officers in that county to such a point that they will become honest and v fficient, and not quarrel or scramble t for nominations and elections, and keep the whole State in uproar about their plunder This will, at the same N time, save the people the largest possible amount of money, making every man's own pocket-book the treasury in which to keep the savings of nmoney. This end can be accomplished by providing a provision very similar to that which I offered, in the early part of the session, viz: that the fees of all the officers in Cook county shall be one half the fee rates provided by law in the remainder of the State, that the officers shall receive the residue for their compensation, or that salaries shall be paid out of the residue, not greater than what these reduced fees produce. By this reduction of the Cook county fee and perquisite bill, our people, and those who have business to transact there, will be saved an immense sum of money, and the office-holders will still get as much as is good for them, or for the public good. Mr. SKINNER. Mr. Chairman: I am very glad the gentleman from Cook [Mr. sMedill] has presented in his remarks a most useful and practical idea. admit we cannot tell exactly what rate fees will be necessary, but we can a proximate it nearly enough for all pra tical purposes; and will it not be bett~ for us to leave that section just as it wi be with the clause stricken out, and I the General Assembly reduce the fees i Cook county? I do not wish the Cook county deleg. tion to suppose that I am opposed to the county in this thing. I am opposed t this provision in the section upon princ ple, because it imposes upon suitors an purchasers of land the burden of helpintg to pay the debts contracted for the ben~ fit of Cook county. Two hundred an~ seventy thousand dollars is a roug estimate of the amount as gathered fron newspapers and from the statement made here by members from Cook coun ty. The people ought not to be thus in directly taxed to that amount or to ant other large < mount. What I have said may not result in an change or modification of this section but, sir, if it does not, I imagine tba Cook county, in less than five vears, wil feel that she has been greatly injured b~ this clause remaining as it is. Mr. MEDILL. Mr. Chairman: Earl in the session I offered an amendment which was sent, I think, to the Committel on Counties, covering, in substance, th~ very point which the gentleman from Stephenson [Mr. Turner] has here pro posed. It provided that the fees paid in Cook county for recording deeds should be one half of those prescribed by law i. e., one-half of those allowed in al, the other counties of the State; that the sheriff's fees should be one-half of the fees allowed by law elsewhere; that the fees of the clerks of the various courts should be one-half of the fees allowed in the residue of the State; and then I pro vided that those officers should be paid iy fees out of the residue. The proposi tion was in fact an article covering the very ground that the gentleman from Stephenson proposes. The people of Cook county, and those of the whole State whodo business in Cook counity'through our public officers, would save a large expense. But my proposition received no consid eration. It was lost out of sight, and I have not heard of it since, until the gentleman from Stephenson [Mr. Turner] resurrected the very idea incorporated in it. Now} while this article provides that various officers herein named, shall be paid limited salaries, that their deputies shall on:ly be so numerous as the juedges of the court shall determine, and that all the fees shall be paid into the treasury, out of which these expenses are to be liquidated, I have grave doubts whether, after we have reduced our officers down to limited salaries, that there will ever be cvllected more fees than enough to pay them and their deputies. The United States j udicial officers are paid by salaries, and the fees are paid into the treasury. I have an impression that Uncle Sam makes very little money in the operation; and that all the fees received for litigation, and paid into the treasury of the United States are consumed to the last dime by the deputies and officers of those courts. N~ow, in regard to the compensation of Cook county officers} I wish to make a candid statement. They receive unques 294 f 14 COSITUIO COYXIN AUDA ever surplus there is shall go into the county treasury, rather than private pockets; but I am also for the amendment offered by the gentleman from Adams [Mr. Skinner], suggested by the gentleman from Cook [Mr. Medill], limiting the amount of that surplus, so that while w e cannot ascertain precisely the rate of fees that will pay the officers, the surplus, when it does accumulate, shall go into the right place, and that the surplus shall be as low as it practically can be, looking on ly to a fair compensation to the officer. It would be better if there were no surplus, but in the nature of things, that cannot always be avoided. I am for that maeasure that shall, as far as it can be done, protect suitors and the citizens, either in or out of Cook county, from paying costs not needed for services. But if, in practice, it is impossible to prevent a surplus, I am for its going where it will do the greatest good to the greatest number. Mr. HITCHCOCK. Mr. Chairman: The committee is dealing now with a practical question of business, in which some figures based upon facts are of muc h more importance to intelligent action than any heated statements made on the stump, in a campaign in Cook county. If the fees of litigation provided for Cook county are to be reduced onehalf, it becomes an important question how that county is to pay its judges and clerks. My own judgment is that in such event their salaries will have to be paid by taxation upon the property of the coun I do not see mys elf, Mr. Chairman, that the amendment offered by the gentleman from Adams [Mr. Skinner] is inconsistent with the words of the section proposed to be stricken out by the gentleman from Stephenson [Mr. Turner]. It can be properly added without disturbing any part of the section as it stands. I would suggest, however, while my mind is upon it, that the amendment, instead of saying "one-half," should say, " not exceeding one-half." Mr. SKINNER. Mr. Chairman: I will explain. I put it in detail so as to avoid the necessity for special legislation for Cook county, and settle the question here. I fixed it at just one-half, for that purpose, as proposed by the gentleman from Cook [Mr. Medill]. Mr. RICE. Mr. Chairman: The in tention then is plain-to be no more, no less. I do not agree with the gentleman from Stephenson [Mr. Turner] in his amendment; nor the reasons given. And although I do not generally differ from him on practical questions, I do now. The question he proposes is rot as to how the people are to be released from paying costs, but what shall bedone with the surplus. Probably under any system that can be devised, as business necessarily fluctuates, if there is a limitation upon the compensation or salary allowed to the officer, there will accumulate in the treasury an excess on the established sums. Business in the same court and office is sometimes much greater than at other times, and if the standard of fees is uniform, the aggregate income will fluctuate as business increases or diminishes, so that ordinarily one cannot prescribe a rate of fees that shall produce precisely the prescribed compensation, but there will be a surplus most likely. . The provision the gentleman from Stephenson [Mr. Turner] proposes to strike out, provides what shall be done with that surplus if it does accumulate. It is simply a question whether the surplus shall go into the pocket of the officer, Who has already received a fair compensation, or into the public treasury, where at least some who have been t ~xed with these court costs and recorder's fees, will stand a chance of getting a part back. It is nothing to the man who pays the costs and fees, who gets them, except upon principles of public justice. It is no accommodation to the man who pays the fees and costs, that they go to the officers rather than the public treasury. But if suitors are taxed above what will pay for the service done, there will be a surplus. It is the least of two evils that thle sur plusshould go into the public treasury, instead of the hands of a private person, who has already been fairly paid. I need not enlarge on the corrupting hnfluence of immense sums of money con centrated in the hands of a few persons about these offices. Experience has taught gentlemen too much on this subject to require me to add anything more to it. When the incomes of these officers become go great that theyr exert a power to deter mine who shall fill the offices, instead of the question being determined by merit and efficiency,r their fees are too much, and the public goodl always requires that official fees be confined to a fair and healthy compensation. I am for preserving this p ~rt of section thirty-nine, which prov'les that what ty. Now, if gentlemen will look to figures not taken from uncertain sources, it will be apparent that this section is an eminently just one. It providesno more than an adequate fund to meet the burdens imposed by the section on Cook county. The gentleman from Stephenson [Mr. Turner] says that it was stated in the newspapers that the clerk of the circuit court of Cook county receives an income from that office of $80,000. Gentlemen, there is not a man in Cook county that believes it. The fact is that that clerk has offered to produce his books to any member of the Convention. His own statement-and I have no doubt that it is a truthful one-is that his net emoluments are about $22,000 a year. They are more than a clerk of the circuit court and recorder of Cook county ought to receive. The same service can be per formed in that county for from $4,000 to $5,000, and it is a wasteful and corrupt expenditure of the public money. But when gentlemen ask the committee to deal with the question, upon the assumption that that clerk receives emoluments of $80,000, I ask them to point to any evidence of that fact outside of a Chicago newspaper. Mr. TURNER. Mr. Chairman: With the permission of the gentleman, I will state-and I think every member of the Judiciary Committee will bear me out in the truth of it-the members of the delegation from Cook county have declared before the Judiciary Committee that the receipts of the office of clerk of the cir cuit court are from sixty thousand to eighty thousand dollars. Several members of the Cook county delegation have said this, and they will not deny it. They have stated that fact before the Judiciary Committee,- and used it as 1174 CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION SAT'URDAY, an argument to influence our action there. Mr. MEDILL. Mr. Chairman: I would suggest to the gentleman that, whatever statement was made by any member of the Cook county delegation, was intended of course, to include the fees of the recor'didg department of that office; for it is a double ofrce, and the recording -,ide of it is by far tiae more lucrative of the two parts. Mr. HITCHCOCK. Mr. Chairman: I care not what statements have biven made, here cr elsewhere. I ask this committee not to deal with this question upon any statement that hak been made before any committee of this Convention. I state that the clerk of that court assured me, and showed me tile statement from his book keeper, that the emoluments were about tweiaty-two thousand dollars. I know no reason why I should discredit his statement, and until some better evidence is produced, I shall assume it. to be true. It may be erroneous, but it is the best evidence before us. Mr. BROWNING. Mr. Chairman: With the gentleman's permission I wish to a,s him for information, if that includes the recorder's fees? Mr. HITCHCOCK. That includes his en. tire emoluments from his office as clerk of the circuit court ancl ex,-ojicio recorder of Cook county. Mr. BROWNING. He has been wonderfully belied then by newspapers and in other ways. I only speak of the general rumors. Mr. HITCHCOCK. Mr. Chairman: My point is simply this: that a Coiivention of eighty-five men brought together to revise the Coristitution of th- e State of Illinois, ought not to base its action upon newspaper repi r,,,; tlat is all. Mr. TURNER. Mr. Chairman: Will the gentleman allow me just one statement? I think I can show from the reports of debates on this floor that members of the Convention from Cook county have stated in broad terms that the clerk of the circuit court of that county received eighty thousand dollars; and I refer to the Globe published bv the authority of this Convention for the proof of what I say. Mr. HITCHCOCK. Mr. Chairman: I do not question tiie statement of the gen MAROH 12, 1870. Di'BATk'S AXD PROCEiDIGS. 117w is a abse. t i suc anabus tht th Mr BROWEL. Mr Chirma: I theaggegat ofall he usinss oul Mr. BROMWELL. Mr. Chairman: It seems to me that wonders will never cease. Now, if there was anything we' heard, day after day, since this Convention met, it is that officers in the county of Cook were receiving eighty thousand dollars or ninety thousand dollars for their services. I think the gentleman from Cook [Mr. Anthony], and the gentleman from Cook [Mr. Medill], one or both of them, made statements to this Convention, in which the figures ninety thousand dollars appeared. Mr. MEDILL. I never did. Mr. BRO,MIWELL. Some delegate certainly did, reading columns of figures. We heard in the papers that the very reason why the gentleman came to this Convention, was that the enormity might stop. Now it seems that these stories are monstrous and ridiculous, and that if Cook county gets nothing more than these same sums as received by these officers, she cannot pay her clerks and judges. What then was all that uproar through the county of Cook in October-getting ou t the "barnacles" and getting in the men that were to save the country? The country was not half so far gone in perdition as I had supposed. It seems that getting on another pair of spectacles and getting out the clerk's record, he is not very highly paid-not so much overpaid as in many of the smaller country counties. I feel entirely sure that what is stated by the gentleman from Stephenson [Mr. Turner], as having been stated before the Committee on the.Judiciary, was reechoed upon this floor, by gentlemen assuming to know about it. In a week longer we will learn that nothing extraordinary has ever happened in Cook county-that there are no "barnacles" there, and never were, that they have gone, and their successors in office are getting ready, I suppose, for the next campaign. [Laughter.] It will yet come to pass that they will have to hunt for proof that there was ever any complaint made against Cook county officers. As time rolls on, we will see those same barnacles show that there was nothing wrong in the amounts they received. It is true that the delegate last on the floor has admitted that the amounts received were and are unconscionable, though he claims half the amount. If it falls from $90,000 to $22,000 in a week, to what will it fall next week? There will have to be a donation party on the part of the State-an aid society organized in the course of a month longer to assist Cook county to pay these officers at the rate their salaries are tapering down. I think that we have the right to say in this committee, that enough has been asserted on this floor to warrant us in goittmg to work and cutting down the fees in that county. The gentleman from Cook [Mr. Medill] suggested to day that we cut them down one-half. The gentleman from Stephenson [Mr. Turner] suggested that the Legislature be required to bring them down until they just fit the salaries. That, of course, would be the fairest way, if it ever could be done; but the Legislature can never tell, when they are trimming down the fees of a sheriff on serving a warrant, or of a -clerk on administering an oath, when the reduction in the aggregate of all the business would amount to jus t enough to pay the salaries. But the amendment of the gentleman from Cook [Mr. Medill], as offered by the gentleman from Adams [,Mr. Skinner], is something tangible and certain; and while, according to the former statement, it would still leave a very handsome margin to go into the county treasury of Cook county, I would have no great objection to their having something over and above salaries; but I do insist upon it, that. we have a perfect right to feel justified in voting to cut these salaries down one-half, after all that has been said, uncontradicted, on this floor. How is it, sir, when gentlemen were talking about $80,000 or $90,000 salaries-what is the reason that no protests were made to correct the public misappreliension tlroughout the State? Were not the newspapers of the State teeming With articles showing up these enormous fees?' Why is it that at this late day, in the month of March, we, here, for the first time learn that all this was an illusion? I think, sir, that I for one, shall vote for the amendment proposed by the gentleman from Adams [Mr. Skinner.] Mr. CARY. Mr. Chairman: I think this matter of fees and salaries of officers is one of the most difficult and delicate subjects that has come before this Convention. It is proposed, as I understand — at least some have suggested it-to change all the laws on this subject, and make all county officers salaried officers. Before we do this we had better pause and consider the effect it is going to have on the people of the State. Perhaps that is the best way. If it is, I am in favor of it. But, evidently, we shall do nothing, before adjournment, on that question. We shall not only have time to consider the question ourselves, but can talk to our constituents on the subject. I fear this proposed change will call for additional taxation on the people; at least it evidently will in many counties. The salaries will have to be paid whether the fees are collected or not. There may not be the same inducement to collect fees, if all the officers receive salaries. If the officers are to be paid bv salaries raised by taxation, it would be a very uupopular measure. In my opinion, nearly every county in the State would have to be taxed more or less to pay them, and a great many people, who never have any fees to pay, swould, probably, and with great deal of justice, say it is but right' that men who are always engaged in law, should do more toward sustaining the costs of the courts than those who ha~ve nothing to do swith them. I/do not know that it is necessary to make a different rule for Cook county than for the rest of the State. At least, I am not prepared to say that it is; and in order that we may properly understand this matter, and act as will be most beneficial to the whole State, I move that the further consideration of section thirty nzine be postponed until we take into consideration the section on fees and salaries as reported by the Committee on Counties. I do not think we have a sufficient understanding of this matter at the present time to act uponl it. The CHAIRMAN. The motion of the gentleman from Jo D~aytess [Mr. Cory] is not in order, as it is a motion to postpone until this committee shall do a ce~;taia is an abuse. It is sd ch an abuse that the people of Cook county have decided that officers should be put upon salaries, and and that their assistants should be paid out of the county treasury. Now, such are the net emoluments, from the litigation in the courts of general j urisdiction in Cook county, and if this body will appoint a committee, and make the investigation, I have no doubt the facts as I state them will prove to be about the exact truth. The judges of Cook county have been in the receipt of about seven thousand dollars for many years. Suitable, men cannot be found who will take those offices unless paid about that sum. It is probable that the Legislature of the State will not provide from the' State treasury a larger sum than three thousand dollars per annum. Cook county must pay to each of its eight judges four thousand dollars a year out of the county treasury, making thirty-two thousand dollars. It must pay an army of subordinate clerks, and it must pay each of these clerks out of'the treasury of Cook county. The fees of those offices are not sufficient to indemnify Cook county for the compensation which it wiil be compelled to make to its judges; and when the fact is considered, that when these clerks are put upon salaries, they will have no motive to collect the costs, when the fact is considered that the costs will be collected only under some rule of the court, which it will be the duty of the judge to enforce; and when we further consider how much less will be the actual receipts from these offices, there is no manner of doubt in my mind that with all the fees that may be derived from these offices, under the general laws of the State, Cook county, considering the extra compensation that it must pay, and will willingly assume to pay its judges, will scarcely be indemni fied. Now, Cook county has a right to ask that this body should provide an adequate compensation for the payment of its judg,es. Proper men to fill her places of ju dicial trusts cannot be obtained without paying seven thousand dollars; whereas, three thousand is an adequate compensation in the rest of the State. We have a right to co'me before you and ask that seven thousand dollars should be appropriated out of the State treasury. We prefer, however, that Cook county should pay that increased compensation, and we ask that some fund may be furnished by which she may reasonably be indemnified or that increased expense. And if gentlemen propose that this committee should deal with these questions upon the basis of absurd, extravagant figures, nlot believed by anybody, I ask that the committee may postpone. the consideration of this article, and that an investigation be had into the receipts of public officers of that county, that my statements may be verified. The proposition of the gentleman from Adams [Mr. Skinner] that Cook county should have but one-half of the fifes provided for the State at large, would be the greatest injustice to that county; and when my associate assents to such a propositioa, I will venture to say that he has no personal knowledge whatever that one-half the fees from that county would indemnify the county or the expense that it will assume under this article. MARCH 12) 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 11,115 1176 CONSTITUTJOAL COVETJO SATURDAY, up, it is only necessary to write in the description. The clerk has only to turn to the page, find the form, and write in the description. But the charge, sir, is the same as if the whole deed had been written out. Now, sir — Mr. MEDILL (in his seat). County furnishes the books, too. Mr. ANTHONY. Yes, sir; the county supplies that whole expense for books. Let gentlemen reckon up forty thousand deeds at a dollar and a quarter or a dollar and a half, and they will see from that one item, that when I stated that the clerk received from sixty to eighty thousand dollars a year, I was not very extravagant, after all. I was stating the gross amounts. I Mr. BROMWELL. Mr. Chairman: If I may be allowed to interrupt-when I said on the floor that some of the gentlemen of that county had complained of the clerk's receiving from eighty to ninety thousand dollars a year, I understood the gentleman for one, to deny the statemenet. Mr. ANTHONY. Mr. Chairman: The gentleman is mistaken. I stated from memory, from my own recollection, and you will find what I said, sir, if you refer to the Globe. I notice that the gentleman from Stephenson [Mr. Turner] is now very anxious to read my remarks upon introducing a resolution for reference to a committee at the early part of the session. I believe the clerk, who is exofficio recorder, has received sixty thousand dolla rs a year. Now, I suppose his expenses are to be taken out. How much does he receive for his services? When he has charged the high prices he has charged, what will be the amount? Not less than twenty thousand dollars net-allowing the clerk to charge just as much as he pleases for his salary, say ten to fifteen thousand dollars That is the income he can reserve. What I stated was the gross amounts, not the net amounts. I am not to be deceived by other statements that may be made heie. I know something about what I am speaking of, I have not had access to any clerk's boiyks. but I have had access to their offices.e Here are forty thousand deeds, at a dollar and a half a piece for the last year. Now,'here may have been some extravagant statements made about some of nthese matters, but 1 do not believe the statements were so very extravagant after all. One thing is certain that the fees of all of these officers, including the clerk hof the county court and treasurer, are enormous. tMr. GARY. Mhr. Chairman: I rise to a question of order. The gentleman is not discussing the question before the comr n a etittee at all. The CHAIRMAN. The Chair decides that the remarks of the gentleman from rCook [Mr. Anthony] are in order. It is not possible -or the Chair to draw the line in a matter of this kind. Some latitude must be allowed on a question to postpone. Mr. ANTHONY. Mr. Chairman: What is this provision? How does it read? Let us understand it. The provision now under discussion is designed to correct some of the evils which have existed in our county-which have arisen from the receipts of these enormous fees perquisites and emoluments, and is as follows: Sac. 39. The clerks of all courts of record, the treasurer, sheriff, coroner and recorder of deeds, in said county of Cook, shall receive salaries for their services, to be fixed by law, which shall be payable quarterly, out of the treasury of said county, and which shall not be changed during their terms of office; but in no case shall the highest salary of either of said officer s be as much as the compensation allowed by law to a judge of the circuit court of Cook c ounty. The principle is right, and there is no sense in any man in this government re ceiving a compensation as greater as, or greater, than the President of the United States. The gentleman from Stephenson [M'r. Turner] may correct me as to the amounts. I do not desire any controversy on that point. I want him to come down to the principle involved in this provi sion. I am for principle, and that is what is aimed at here. The gentleman seems to be horrified at the prospect of these large amounts going into the public treasury; but he is not disturbed a bit if they go into the pock ets of individuals. I take fright at the other side of the question. The clerk of the circuit court, a few years ago, came down and got that con tiiuance fee law passed by which he got fifty cents on every case for twelve months in a year, even on cases that could not be tried. I am for protecting the public against selfaggrandizeme?it, and that is why I am for this section. I would rather see the expenses of my county paid by these contributions in the shape of fees, thin let them be poured into the pockets of any man. That is my doctrine. [Here the hammer fell]. Msir. TURNER. ~lr. Chairman: I feel as though my veracity was to some extent involved in this matter. I made a certain statement, which it is now asserted I took from a newspaper, and I wish, therefore, to verify mv statemeat. For that purpose, I will read an extract from a speech made by the honorable geLtleman from Cook [Mr. An thony], on the seventeenth day of Decembi)er last. He was speaking of the election in Cook county, having (offered a resolution upon the subject of fees and enmolum-ents. I quote his language as corrected and published in the Globe edition of our de. bates. He says that In my own county, sir, we have had a grand inquest, as it is called, and I am here, with the other members arts~ my county uponi this floor, elected upon a question which related particularly to the retormation of these matter s of perquisites or emoluments. During that grand inquest, we fecund that the clerk of the circuiit jourt of mv county received more than eighty thousand dollars per year;* that there were recorded in one e'ar forty-three thousand seven hundred and eleven deeds, from which he derived one dollar and sevenlty-five cents each, mnaking, from that source alone, more than sixty thousand dollars. We found that, by a law passed a few years since by t he Legislature, the clerk of tihe circuit coulrt, and sir the superior court, received fifty cents Ikor the continuance of eachl case for each termn. A term of the court was held each month, making for one of the courts about ten thousand dollars per year, and for the superior court twenty thousand dollars per y'ear. We found that the'sheriff of our county was receiving thirty thousand dollars, the clerk of the county twenty thousand dollars, and the treasurer-from thirty thousand to fifty-five thousand dollars per year, making in sll, in my county alone, of lees, Dverquisites and emoluments, something like fronm two hundred thousand to two hundred and fifty thousand dollars pel year. I SATURDAY, CONSTI'j,"UTIONAL CON'VENTION 1176 thing which has no connection with the consideration of the article now before the committee. It would be in order to move to postpone until after the other sections have been disposed of. Mr. CARY. Mr. Chairman: I then movetopassittothee-nd of thearticle. Mr. ANTHONY. Mr. Chairman: A gooddealwas said duridgthelastcauapaign, as has been remarked, in regard to the qutstion of salaries. I believe I have said something upon that subject, first on the stump, and again in this ooiivention, when introduc'ldg a resolution in the early part of the session. I see, the gentleman from Stephenson [Mr. Turner] has been looking up the speech in the Globe, and what I then said, I wi:l, on the information I then had, stand by, because I believed exactly what 1, said. Mr. CARY. Mr. Chairman: Is a motion to postpone debatable? The CHAIRMAN A motion to postpone is debatable to a limited extent. Mr. ANTHONY. Mr. Chairman: I do not claim that the flgures that I presented in the early part of the session were correct in every particular, because I did not have before me, at that time, the exact figures. No clerk of the court had then come forward and produced his books. I did state, it had been ascertained that in the office of the circuit clerk there had been recorded during the year between forty-three thousand and forty-four thousand deeds, which deeds would average about one dollar and fifty cents or one dollar and- seventy-five cents each, which would make sixty-thousaud dollars, I did say, I believe that the continuance fee for each and every case for each term, wa-,4fifty cents; that the'Dumber of cases there, at the rate or fifty cents each. would figure up ten or twenty thousand' dollars; the exact amount I do not remember. I did state that in the superior court of that city there was a conti,,ua,nce fee attached to every case, of fifty cents. A term in that court every mo-n-th and fee for every term, which would probably amount to twelve thousand or fourteen thousand dollars, for the clerk of the superior court. I did -tate some flg ures with reference to the sheriff and coroner. I did not intend to o be ond the DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. Now, this thing was exposed duiing the re- The county of Cook, at this time, con- to call the attention of the gentleman Now, this thing was exposed during the re cent campaign, and those who were elected from Cook county were elected upon this is sue among others. We have come to this Convention, without regard to any political question, to assist in framing an honest Con stitution, and a Constitution by which the people of the State cannot have their earnings taken from them in this manner, and ap propriated to the aggrandizement of individ uals. Now, sir, I leave it to the honorable gentleman [Mr. Anthony] and the hon orable President rMr. Hitchcock] to set tle between themselves, which is right and which is wrong. One asserts that the clerk receives more than eightythou sand dollars-the other that he receives a little over twenty thousand dollars. But, sir, what does the gentleman from Cook [Mr. Anthony] say the Cook county delegation came here for? He says that they came here for the purpose of making An honest Constitution, by which the people of the State of Illinois can not have their earnings taken from them in this man ner, and appropriated to-the aggrandizement of individuals. Is he willing that the honest people of this country shall have their earnings taken from them, and put into the treas ury of Cook county, or into the treasury of any local or political corporation that he may mention? Sir, I made my statements, and I qualified them when I made them. Mr. ANTHONY. (In his seat.) Have they ever been disputed? Mr. TURNER. Yes, sir. When I made the assertion, it was denied distinctly. Several gentlemen heard the de. nial, that any such statement had been made. I stated that it had been published in the newspapers, that it had been repeated before the Judiciary Committee, and upon this floor, and that the statement had been used for the purpose of influencing the minds of the committee, and of this Convention, in fram-ing this article, and carrying this measure through. Now, I care nothing about this measure personally. It is not a matter that I an: personally interested in; but sir, whenever my word is questioned, or anything said that seems to indicate that I have made a statement that is not true, I feel it my duty to respond promptly; and the only object I have in producing this extract of the gentleman's speech, is to prove my statements true to the letter. Mr. ANTHON'Y. Mr. Chairman: I would ask the gentleman if I have ever uttered a word ill regard to any remarks -he has made? Does he refer to me?9 Mr. TURNER. I do not know who it was denied my assertion. But I heard some one say distinctly, that there was no such statement made, and I understand that the gentleman from Coles [Mr. B~romw~ell], and other gentlemen sitting near me, heard the same thling. Ad. MIEDILL. Mr. Chairman: SMy colleague [M~r. Hitchcock], rather unexpectedLy to-me, took issue with my remuarks in regard to the emoluments of Cook county office holders, and their profits. Well, Mr. Chairman, i have no exact information on the subject. I have not produced an array of statistics here in regard to Cook county salaries, but I desire to offer to the committee a key by which every member can make up his own estimate from data, in his own possession, as to what those officess in Co~ county are worth. 295 The county of Cook, at this time, con tains a population of fully three hundred and fifty thousand. Our city alone, a year ago, had nearly three hundred thousand, and the rural districts of our county at that time numbered over thirty thousand. Our county will next year exceed three hundred and fifty thousand, beyond question. Now, Mr. Chairman, the pop ulation of Cook county is equal to forty counties of the size of Scott. There is a member here from Scott county. Let him make an estimate of the fees received by the various county officers of Scott county for doing correlative services, and multiply the aggregate by forty, and he has a sum which is less than the officer in Cook county receives for the performance of the like service in that gigantic and rapidly growing county. In Cook county we have a larger per cent. of property value, a larger per cent. of litigation, a larger per cent of taxes to pay, than the rural districts of the State, on a given population. That is notori ous. Every member on this floor knows it; because we not only do business for Cook county, but a vast amount of official business for citizens who come there from other parts of the State and from other parts of the union. Now, sir, Cook county has a population equal to:thirty counties of the class of Alexander, and the fees received by every officer in Cook county are greater thirty fold than those paid to the various public officers of Alexander. The population of Cook county is twenty-five times as great as that of counties of the class of Jersey, twenty times as great as counties of the class of Iroquois, ten times as great as counties of the class of Knox, seven times as great as counties of the class of Adams, McLean or Sangamon, and six times as great as the great county of LaSalle. I ask the gentleman on my right, from Adams [Mr. Browning], and on my left [Mr. Skinner], the gentleman from McLean [Mr. Benjamin], and the gentleman from Sangamon [Mr. Hay], to make their own estim ates. They have some idea of what their sheriff's fees, the clerk's fees, the recorder's fees, the treasurer's fees, of their counties amount to. Let them multiply that sum by seven, and then add twentyfive per cent. on top of that sum, and the product will be about the amount the officers of Cook county receive from these sources. Let other gentlemen multiply the income of their county office-holders by twenty-five, twenty, fifteen or ten, according to the relative size of their counties, and they too can figure up and ascertain what Cook county office-holders receive in gross. I have now given the committee a key by which it can penetrate the secret of the emoluments of Cook county officeholders. I hold that if we cut every class of fees in twain, leave one-half in the pockets of the people, and give the other half to the officers of Cook county, th tey will still make more money, a great deal, and be compensated much higher, than any public officers in other parts of the State. And I repeat that this is the way to benefit the people, to purify these offices, and to put an end forever to the scandalous and corrupting struggle for the possession of these offices, which the people witness annually with mingled emotions of chagrin and disgust. Mr. CODY. Mr. Chairman: I wish 31AIP.CH 12, 1870. 117T to call the attention of the gentleman from Cook [Mr. Medill] to one fact, that I presume he is not aware of, which i,,,z, that in most of the other counties in the State, the fees of officers are much higher than in the county of Cook. The General Assembly have, at two successive sessions passed acts largely increasing the fees in most of the counties. The fees, however, remain the same in Cook count 7 that they were before the war, when business was done on a gold basis. This fact must be considered in applying the test, or flgurirg upon the basis he has Iroposed. p But I rose, Mr. Chairman, to say a word or two upon the motion of the gen. tleman from Jo Davi-,ss [lvlr. Carv] to postpone the consideration of this section, and I would ask the attention of the committee to the report of the Committee on Counties upon this same subjects Now, if we are to adopt thisuew experimental system of paying ministerial officers salaries, and having their fees and perquisites paid into the county treasury, there is certainly no more reason for adopting it in the county of Cook, thaa in any other county of the State. Indeed, I think there is less reason for adopting the system in Cook county than elsewhere; not because the fees of those offices are not, in the aggregate, exceed. idgly large, but becau#8e, as the gentleman from Cook [Mr. Aiedill] stated yes. terday, in the litigation in Chicago, parties to -the suits come from all over the State. This fact is known to everybody. The character of the business transacted between Chica-o and the balance of the State is such, that the suitors reside in all parts of the State. This is true, also, of those OWD,iDg and dealing in real estate in Chicago. They reside in all portion,% of the State, have an interest in and help to pay the recorder's fees, as well as those which arise from litigation. There is, therefore, less reason for paying the fees into the county treasury in that county than in any other. And yet, I am -not -tt this time opposing the principle, nor do I wish to be understood as advocating it. This question will c(,me up properly and naturally when the report of. the Committee on Counties is considered; and if the principle reported by that committee should be adopted, then it will be prop f his dis 1178 - COSTJTUTIOAL COVENTIO MoNDAY, SIXTY -FO URTHDA Y. MOINDAY, March 14, 1870. The Convention met at ten o'clock A. M., and was called to order by the President. Turk, the comet and the deyil."1 This Constitutional Convention seems to pray, "The Lord deliver us from the Turk, the comet, the devil and the Legislature." QUESTION OF PRIVILEGE-AGAIN. Mr. BROMWELL. Mr. Pre s ident: I wish to bring a que stion bef ore the Convention th a t is somewhat a matter of privilege-it is concerning our reported d ebates. When we made the a rrange - ment in regard to painting our debates, I understood that we were to have the same facilities for correcting the reports as are usual. And, I think it is usual everywhere for a proof to be furnished in order that those who speak may see that what appears is correct and according to the manuscript. I do not mean for the purpose of alteridg, but for correcting proof according to the manuscript. The way we have been going on is this: The reporter sends the manuscript to the member, who corrects his remarks. If that were accurately printed, it is all that can be asked; but errors of type are innumerable. As it happens with me, it happens with other members, I suppose. They put most ridiculous propositions and continual blunders in men's mouths; and there is no opportunity whatever to correct them, for no proof is sent out. I have inquired of several members, and all say there is no proof sent out. They only get the manuscripts, and afterwards the printed revise for the Globe edition. That is not the way I understood that this was to be done. I understood that the Printing Committee had made an arrangement similar to that by which the Congressional Globe is gotten up. It is well known that the Globe company furnish every night such a proof slip as the proof reader has to every member of the house or senate, as the- case may be, that the corrections are there made, and then the matter goes into the Daily Globe, and from that into the Congressional Globe. I would like the Committee on Printing to state to the Convention whether or not this thing can be corrected. It is in vain for us to correct the manuscript which the reporters make out, and -then send it to the press where it is subject to all these typographical errors, which we have no opportunity of reviewing or revising before the Journal goes Tut to the country. PRINTING TO CONVENTION. Mr. TURNER. M[r. President: In regard to the matter of printing, there has been a great deal of dissatisfaction exepressed at one time and another, and the Printing Committee has certainly expended a great deal of care and labor in attempting to have it done as well as possible. The gentleman has anticipated me a little. I was this morning going to bring the subject of printing before the Convention myself. I nlow wish to make a statement in reply to the remarks of the gentleman from C~oles [M~r. Bromwell], and if there is any gentleman on this floor who has any interest whatever ill having his printing done correctly, I desire himl to pay particular attention to the statement I now make in explanation. I know it is usual in Washington to get the proof of debates of congress for correction; but here is the fact in regard to this Convention. We comnmence o~ur sessions at ten o'clock in the morning. We continue our speeches until six in the afternoon. Dulrinlg all the day the reporters are actively engaged in reporting Hence, I think it is extremely proper that we should postpone the consideration of this section until we take up section seven of the report of the Committee on Counties. 1 have no feeling on this question, and I can not conceive wh y any feeling should have arisen. The statement of the gentleman from Cook [Mr. Hitchcock], I have n o doubt is e ntirely reliable, because obtained by him from the books of the office, and corroborated by th e book-keeper. The other statements that have been made are evidently based upon loose rumors and newspaper reports, made up without knowledge of the facts. I am satisfied we should postpone action on this section until the matter properly comes up, on consideration of the report of the Committee on Counties. The CHAIRMAN. The question is on the motion of the gentleman from Jo Daviess [Mr. Cary], to postpone the consideration of the section until the remainder of the report is gone through with. ~ Mr. HAINES, of Lake. Mr. Chairman: I would like, with the leave of the gentlemen from Jo Daviess [Mr. Cary], to offer a substitute to the amendment of the gentleman from Adams [Mr. Skinner.] Cook county is getting all the benefits, without giving any to the rest of the country; and I wish to offer this as a substitute, so that we all can be relieved as well as Cook county. Mr. CAMERON. Mr. Chairman: I would inquire if the substitute is in order? The CHAIRMAN. The Chair will decide when it is read. The Clerk read the substitute proposed by Mr. Haines, of Lake, as follows: That the fees of all officers throughout the State shall be one-half of that now allowed by law, and shall be uniform in all counties. Mr. TINCHER. I move the committee rise, report progress and ask leave to sit again. Mr. CAMERON. I claim to be in possession of the floor. The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman from Cook [Mr. Cameron] is not in possession of the floor. : The gentleman from Lake [Mr. Haines] is in possession of the floor, and the Chair was about to decide on the admis ~" il,l~ of his motion to amend the sections Mr. H~lAINES, of Lake. M~r. Chalrmar: That is so; and I would now move that the committee rise, report progress, and ask leave to sit again. [Laughter.] The SCttAIR]MAN. What does the ~gentlemlan do with regard to his amend-ment? Mr. HAINES, of Lake. The motion is to rise. The CHtAIRMAN. Dloes the gentle'mmn withdraw lais amendment? Byr HAINES, of Lake. No; the motion is to rise. [Laughter.] The CHAIRMAN. The question is now on rising. The motionl was agreed to. ADJOURNMENT. Mr. WENDLING. Mr. President: I move the Convention do now adjourn. The motion was agreed to. So the Convention (at We o'clock and twenty-eight minutes) adjourned. PRAYER. Prayer was offered by the Rev. Dr. Bergen, of Springfield, as follows: Almighty Father, we desire to have a deep sense of Thy infinite Being, Giver of every good and perfect gift; a deep sense of our dependence on Thee for life, health, breath, and every mercy. Father, lift on us this morning the light of Thy reconciled countenance. As children come to a parent, whom they love, in whom they trust, so we desire to draw near Thee. Lord, give us grace and wisdom for the duties and responsibilities that lie before us. We look to Thee; we humbly pray Thee to sanctify us to Thyself. Make each of us personally useful in our day, relating to the public administration, to which each may be called, and in all our private walks may we have the fear and love of God ever in our hearts. Give us a sound understanding, a right mind, and while we live may it be in Christ to live, and when we die, to everlasting gain. May Thy blessing rest on us to-day, in all our responsibilities, on our families, on our land, and all over our world. May the whole universe become vocal with one sound to Him who loved us, and gave himself for us, in Jesus Christ. Amen. READING OF THE JOURNAL. The Secretary read the journal of the last day's proceedings. RESOLUTIONS, The PRESIDENT. Resolutions are in order. UNNECESSARY EMPLOYES OF CONVENTION. Mr. CROSS offered the following resolution, which was read by the Secretary, and agreed to: Resolved, That the Committee on Accounts and Expenditu re s of the Conventi on be directed to inquire in to the pr opriety of t his Convention, at their meeting in April, dispensing with some of the employe s of the Convent ion, and if, in their opinion, any may be dis p ensed with, they report th e amount due such persons, for the action of the Convention, b efore the r ecess. PER DIEiM4 OF MEMBERS AND EMPLOYES. Mr. McDOWELL offered the following resolution, which was read by the Secretary, and agreed to: Resolved, That the Auditor of Public Accounts draw his warrant on the Treasurer-for the sum of one hundred dollars for each member and officer (including policemen), to be charged to his account for per diem and mileage, and the sum of thirty-five dollars for each page, as compensation for his services. QUESTION OF PRIVILEGE. Mr. WELLS. Mr. President: On Saturday, in the published debates, occur some printed remarks made by myself on Friday, which I believe to be correctly reported, but to have been sadly mixed by the types. What I did say in that part of my speech, was Now, sir, the judge is not a representative of the people. If a judge is chosen by the people to represent them, that judge is under the influence, more or less, of the prominent )people of that section. That is where the error exists. The judge should hold in one hand the scales of justice, and in the other hand the sword to execute his righteous decrees, regardless of who is affected. That is the difficulty in attempting to lay the people of this State upon this iron bedstead. The adoption of this section will cut the State up into circuits; and not only that, but fasten those circuits, as they exist, upon the people, whether the people are willing or not, for six years at a time. The people in old times used to pray, "The Lord deliver us from the I CONSTITUTIONAL CONYENTION MONDAYI 1178 MARCH 14, 1870. DEBATES AM) PROCEEDINGS. 1179 congress during the same time, that have not been set speeches carefully prepared. But we have come together here directly from the people for the purpose of mak ing a Constitution, and from the very start have worked on an average seven hours a day-and those seven hours have been devoted to speech-making. We have produced more matter for publica tion than was ever before produced by any legislative body, in the same length of time. I challenge the world to pro duce an instance where so much original matter has been produced in the same time. A motion comes up, and members have no speeches prepared for the occa sion. They grasp the subject, debate the question from their instinct, from their ability to argue, and from the store houses of their knowledge. They speak rapidly, uttering from one-fifth to one fourth more words in the same length of time than they would utter if making set speeches. The reverend gentleman who sits beside you, Mr. President, knows what I mean. He knows that a sermon f that will occupy say forty five minutes, if delivered in measured,clear distinct words, would not occupy more than thirty or, thirty-five minutes, if spoken extempore. Here members spring up on the spur of the moment, and make excited speech es, and deliver from one fifth to one tourth more words in the same time, than they would if they were delivering orations, or essays, or sermons. Hence we have produced daily an average of six pages of solid printed matter in the Register. The entire printing force of this city combined is not sufficient to print that amount of matter daily, as it is required to be done under the contract. This contract requires the printers to set up and print all this matter and deliver it to the members at twelve o'clock the next day after it is uttered. They could not get the manuscript so as to commence work upon it before two o'clock. That gave them ten hours to set up the matter and deliver it. It is true that they have not always done it within the time, but, sir, they were required after that had been done, to give members a revise, before it was corrected and transferred to tthe Globe. This they have been unable to do. In order to do it they would have been compelled to purchase from one to two tons more type than there is in any office in this city, and that would have cost a greater outlay of money than could be afforded for the purpose of carrying out this contract. What I have risen for, principally, is this: The Globe edition was published for a while with a great many errors, and upon very poor paper. It was printed on paper that was utterly unfit for the work, and when the attention of the cowmittee was called to it, they condemned the whole job. Now, we are about to take a recess. The Globe must be re-set entirely, or it must be abandoned. Wet have made arrangements for good paper to print it on, and what we now propose is this: That this Convention shall authorize us to make such contract, subject to the approval of the Convention, as we can make for the re-setting of the Globe, so that gentlemen may have a revise of their speeches and whatever is preserved, shall be preserved in as good form as is possible in this city. These debates are valuable; they will form an imp ortant por tion of the history of this State. The printers were to receive seventy. five cents per thousand ems, for setting up this work, and to receive sixty cents per token for printing it in book form; but, sir, after it had been set up in the paper, members would go to work and so revise their speeches as to add nearly one fifth to their original remarks, so that this Convention will be compelled to pay a large sum extra, over and above their con tract price, in order to remunerate the printers for making these additions and corrections. Therefore, we have proposed that no extra charges shall be paid, and that this Convention shall authorize the Printing Committee to enter into such a contract as thev can for the re-setting of the Globe, so as to get it out in good form. We propose to introduce the following resolution, which I will read: Resolved, That the Committee on Printing and Binding be, and are hereby authorized to enter into contract with E. L. Merritt & Bro., for printing the debates of this Convention in Globe form, at not to exceed sixty-five cents per 1,000 ems, for composition, which shall be in lieu of all extra charges. I propose to offer that resolution, and the question then will be submitted to this Convention, whether they will have it done or not. I believe it is important that these de bates, which we have had reported, shall be preserved. We have met together at an interesting period in our history. We are in the midst of revolutionary times. We are starting on a new career of pros perity. We have fought out and estab lished great principles for the gyvern ment of the United States. We have, as it were, marked an epoch in the history of the United States, and of the several States. from which future historians will take their starting point, when they write the history of the progress and glory of this country; and it is import ant that our debates shall be preserved in the best form we are able to com mand. By adopting this resolution, every member will be enabled to so correct and revise his speeches, that they will go down to posterity just in the shape he desires they should go; and, sir, I wish to make another statement Mr. ~TINCHER. Mr. Chairman: I would like to ask the gentleman a question. If we will have to pay now for the work already done, in addition to what other contract may be made, for the completion and correction of the work? Mr. TURNER. Uinder this arrangement we have been talking about, the cost swill be but a trifle more than to pay for these extra additions and corrections which I have spoken of. That is the fact. There is another thing I wish to state in this connection. This work has greatly exceeded what any of us considered it would amount to. The largest estimate that we could make in the commencement, was that we would not fill more than four pages of the Itcglarer in a day. Instead of that we have filled six pages right along every day. The Printing CoemiltC tee has therefore been beset with difficulties that they did not anticipate at all. There has been a good deal of censure upon ~he printer, and indirectly on the -committee. Althou:gh I think the feelinpg of the Convention has beenl kindly toward the Printing Committee, we still canno MIARCH 14, 1870 DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 117l 9 speeches of the members. They furnish the manuscript as they write it out and members correct it. That manuscript goes to the printer late in the afternoon. So it will be seen that it has been im possible for the printers to get the manu script earlier than two o'clock. Now, at two o'clock they go to work to set up this enormous amount of matter, making-every day six pages of this size [holding up the Convention Register] and some days more. The type is not set up, the proof is not out until gentlemen have either gone to the theater, or gone a visiting, or gone to bed-generally to bed I suppose. The next morning that has to be struck off and laid upon the tables of members, and un less gentlemen will consent to be waked up at the hour of midnight, or at three or four o'clock in the morning to correct their proof, it cannot be corrected before going to press. .Ir. BROMfWELL. Mlr. President: Will the gentleman allow me to make a suggestion. So far as comparing this work with the Congressional Globe is con cerned, there is this difference, that the Globe does come out promptly at twelve o'clock. I never knew it to fail. This work is ten days behind. Certainly in that ten days the proof could have been corrected. The houses of congress sit as late in the evening as we do- so that as to the de bates in the latter part of the day, they have just as much time here as they do there, and certainly as to the debates in the forenoon they have as much time. So I do not see any validity in the reason assigned by the gentleman from Stephenson [3lr. Turner]. Mr. TURNER. Speaking about getting behind. That would not help the matter, because members do get a proof before the matter goes into the Globe. There has not been a speech printed but what, before it went into the Globe, the member making it had had a revise furnished for correction. But that is not the difficulty. The difficulty lies here: The speeches come out in the Register and Journal form, as they are reported and corrected in nanuscript, and then if the remarks are incorrect, members can only correct them -for the Globe, for it is too late to make the -corrections in newspaper form. But I have risen for a different purpose entirely. There is one fact that stands out here, that we have to meet. Gentlemnen never saw such a legislative body or such a Convention, as this body is. There nlever was such a one. I have been a member of congress; I have been a member of legislative bodies; but, sir, I never saw such a body cf men as has got together here. Let me state the reason. MHr. CHURCH. Will the gentleman allow me to ask whether those that have been members of congress, are any different bodies here from what they were then? [Laughter.] Mr. TURNER. Yes, sir. Now, if gentlemen swill not be in such a hurry to say something sm~art on this subject, we shall get along better. I am willing they shall make what little capital they can in this small way; but in what I propose to state, I shall be complimentary to gentlemnen. There have not been a dozen set speech-es made in this body, while there hat~ scarcely been a dozen speeches made in 118 UOSJUTOA c'-ETO~MX in which this matter has been reported. Of course I can only speak for myself. My experience has been that I have found it necessary to make but very slight alterations in the manuscript, as furnished by the reporters. My views of the propriety of things would not allow me to make any extended changes or corrections. I suppose the object of having these debates printed is that they may be printed just as uttered upon this floor-the same thoughts, the same instincts, the same arguments, that are uttered here. I understand that the contract made with the printers was amply sufficient to carry out these intentions, so far as securing an accurate publication of the proceedings of this body is concerned. With reference to the prices proposed to be paid, I can say nothing about it, because I do not know anything about such matters, or the value of printers' work. I am not one who desires to complain, in any manner, of the way in which the work has been executed. There have been numerous typographical errors; very often words are mistaken and so printed, that if the reader did not correct them in his own mind as he read, the speaker would certainly be made to appear very ridiculous. But, sir, I am not so sensitive about the publication of any remarks that I have made here, as to suppose that a reader could not correct for himself,and attribute the mistake to a typographical error. I am free to say that we have been very punctually furnished with the means of revising after the publication in the papers. The only difficulty I can call to mind is, that between the time of delivering the manuscript to the printers and setting it up, no proof has been furnished to me to correct, before the'matter has come out in the Register and Journal for circulation. I do not call to mind whether the contract provided that we should have that privilege or not. If it did provide for it, it has not been complied with. No proofs have been furnished. Now sir, I will say, so far as the reporters are concerned, the speeches made here go to the hands of the printers within a few minutes. They have been punctual, except when -they have been delayed by speakers themselves failing to return the manuscript as soon as they should have done. But I am told there has been ample time for correction after the delivery to the printers, if allowed; ard if the contract calls for that right, of course it should be adhered to. Now, with regard to authorizing the re-setting of the matter, I am opposed to it. I am opposed to opening the door in this manner. Whatever has gone out already, let it go. If it has been done according to contract, then in good faith, we are bound to stand by it. If not, then it will be a proper subject for the Printiolg Committee to bring before the Convention for reference to the Committee on the Accounts and Expenditures of the Convention. The CHAIRMAN. The Chair feels that it is its duty to remind the Convention that the hour has arrived for the special order. Mr. SKINNER. Mr. Chairman: I am sorry to be reminded of the necessity of calling for the order of the day. I wish for leave to make one suggestion. help feeling that to a certain extent we have been made to bear the blame of these inevitable blunders which have occurred in the printing, and I, for one, sir, am now prepared to make this statement, that unless we can make some arrangement by which these matters can be done satisfactorily, I desire not only to resign the chairmanship of that committee, but my position on the committee, and give it to some of these gentlemen who think they can do the work better. Mr. CHURCH. Mr. President: Many gentlemen of the Convention apprehended, at an early period in our deliberations, that difficulties might arise by reason of the Convention, or by the Committee on Printing, assuming to perform duties which more usually and properly belong to ministerial officers, having time to attend to and experience in such matters, and to whom the law had assigned this duty. This business, however, was taken in charge by the Printing Committee. They reported to the Convention the contract that they had made. I do not know that there has been a complaint made since that time, of the contract made by the committee. The only complaint made has been that the work has not been delivered according to contract. The honorable chairman of the Printing Committee appears this morning as an apologist for the committee and for the other contracting parties. Now, sir, I do not desire to throw any censure either upon the committee or upon the other contracting parties. If the facts that have been stated by the honorable chairman of the Committee on Printing [M[r. Turner], this morning, are in accordance with the practice, it certainly has been a great reason why the work of these contracting parties has not been done better and more promply. But, sir, if they have submitted to such kind of alterations and additions, as has been declared by the gentleman, they have done it at their own wrong and injury, contrary to the provisions of the contract, and that, too, according to what is my sense of propriety in the publication of these debates. I believe, sir, that it was distinctly understood and so reported by the committee, that after the publication of speeches and proceedings in the newspapers, there swas tobeno more liberty to interfere with the published proceedings or speeches, than might be necessary upon the part of the members to correct typographical or grammatical errors. It was not right to add to or take from them further than that. I supposed members had so understood, anld it is still my supposition that such has been the case; for I should be unwilling to believe that members of thisConvention would seek to interpolate into speeches madle here, matters which did not occur, particularly after those speeches had been published in the newspapers as reported by the official reporters, with such corrections as they might choose to make in manuscript before publication in the papers. If such has been the case, it was not only the duty of the printers, but their privilege, to protect themselves, and to protect the integrity of the publication of the proceedings of this Conivention. They should have rejected everything added that was not necessary for the cor rection of typographical errors and gramnmatical blunders. ~ow, sir, with reference:~ the manner I propose to enable the Committee of the Whole to proceed to consider the Judiciary Article, and also reports of stand. ing committees unfinished in Committee of the Whole, with a view of disposing of them so that the recess may be entered on sooner than was contemplated, and that what has been proposed, may go in printed form to the public. I should be satisfied with a postponement of special matter if so stated, or even of reports pro forma, that the recess may be entered upon, and the people be fully advised during the recess, of what is proposed for their consideration. Many members are sick and away, or sick here, and the public interests, in my judgment, will not be subserved by the longer continuance of the Convention prior to the day fixed for the recess. I yield to the gentleman from Jo Daviess [Mr. Cary]. POSTPONEMENT OF SECTION THIRTY-NINE. Mr. CARY. Mr. President: I wish to settle one question which I think can be better done in Convention, as it will settle it permanently. I offer the following resolution Mr. PERLEY. Mr. President: Will the gentleman give way to me for a personal explanation? Mr. CARY. In a moment. The Secretary read the resolution offered by Mr. Cary, as follows: Resolved, That the further consideration of section thirty-nine of the article reported by the Judiciary Committee. be postponed until the Convention take into consideration the report of the Committee on Counties. ORDER OF BUSINESS. Mr. BROMWELL. Mr. President: I rise to a question of order. If the chairman of the Committee on Judiciary, or any other gentleman wishes to move to go into Committee of the Whole, that will take the floor from me; but I do not think other matters will. The PRESIDENT. The gentleman is. quite correct. The chairman of the Committee on Judiciary withdrew his motion to go into Committee of the Whole, yielded to the gentleman from JoDaviess [Mr. Cary], whose resolution is not in order. The gentleman from Coles [Mr. Bromwell] is entitled to the floor, unless some member calls for the special order. I I s t t t f I I s CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION INIONDA-T, 1180 QUESTION OF PRIVILEGE-AGAIN. Mr. PERLEY. Will the, gentleman from Coles rMr. Bromwell] allow me the floor for a privileged question? Mr. SKINNER. Mr. eresident: I move that the Convention resolve itself into Committee of the Whole, for the consideration of the judiciary article and unfinished reports. The PRESIDENT. Does the Chair understand the gentleman fro,-n Marshall [Mr. Perley] to rise to a privileged question? Mr. PERLEY. Yes, sir. The PRESIDENT. Will the gentleman proceed to state it? Mr. PERLEY. Mr. President: I thought I should not rise to a privileged question this session; but I observe that nearly every gentleman has done so, and I will only occupy a moment. On March 2d the Conventio2i Begi8te#reported me as having said, 11 I have been handed a resolution by'PhociOD,' of the Chieago Journal." These words I never uttered. What I did say was, "I had MARSH 14 1870. DEBATES AXD PROCEEDJGS. 1181 do no particular harm. But I speak of those errors which consist in putting one word for another, so utterly changing and destroying the sense that the error can not be manifest to the reader-the result being that a man is made to talk like a fool. It is that such errors may be cor rected that proof is usually sent to the person making the remarks. Still, if it cannot be done, if the exigencies of the business will not permit it, I would not urge it. But it is astonishing to me, sir, that the gentleman should say, that beiJng ten days behind the time, proof could not be furnished. And furthermore, I wish to call his at tention to some of his remarks concern ilJg what took place in the printing of the Globe. He speaks of the prepared speeches of Congress. Now, in the first place, those speeches exceed in matter what would be allowed in time. A mem ber will get up with a two-hours' speech, read his time out, and get leave to print the balance in the Globe. It overstocks the columns of the Globe, and makes a great deal more matter than if members should speak as we do here. Besides that, I would say that a very considerable portion of the time of con gress is spent in committee of the whole, as much as with us, that in that case the deoate goes on in the same manner that it goes on here, but I never heard that it made any difference with the Glo be. I know the house of representatives sits often three or four hours at a time in committee of the whole, and I never heard it made any difference with refer enlce to the members getting their pro of. My opinion is, that it does not make much difference. I undertake to say this, that if these speeches are worth printing at all (which I have always s.-id was questionable), the timne fo,r them to ap pear correct is when the people read them; but all these debates which we have been gsending out arou,d the State have gone out, charged with blunders, and then, after all that is done, and the whole thing is passed, there is to be a printed copy c(rrected and laid away. Now, if there is any object in printitg, why not print correctly? I have never set the value on this printing that some gentlemen have. I thlink the United States gi)vernment would have stood, and posterity would have been born into the world and taken their place in the scale of existence just the same, if we never had printed these debates at all, and I believe posterity will read just about as much as the present generation do. I do not think they are worth printing. I will say, as tar as my part is concerned, that I do not consider the State ought to have been taxed one cent to print a speech I ever made on this floor. Mr. TURNER. I would like to ask the gentleman if he did not vote for the puhbicati,,n X,f these speeches B nMr. BROMWELL. I voted for print pag the j,,urnal. I forget how I voted on all the printing, but I recollect at the tieme the debates were going on, I said if they ever were of any value it would be as bo)ks of reference. When we were speaking of having newspapers sent out, I questioned the propriety of printing the debates. But we were told we were to have three distratct revises, if my memory is correct. That was one of the inducements offered to the Convention to go into it. When PRINTING TO CONVENTION, AGAIN. Mr. SKINNER. Mr. President: I feel that it is proper for me to withdraw my motion in view of the urgency of the prinJting question The PRESIDENT. The gentleman f,'om Coles [Mr. Bromwell] is entitled to the floor. Mr. BROMWELL. Mr. President. I rose this morning in a good natured way to ask if it were not possible that these blunders of the daily Convention Journal and Reaister could be corrected, by giving members an opportunity to see the proof. I had no intention of arousing any feeling on the part of the gentleman from Stephenson [Mr. Turner], but he seemed to answer with a degree of animation, which made me fear that I had said some thing irritating in regard to the Commit tee,,n Printing. Mr. TURNER. Mr. President: I most seriously protest that I have no ill feeling on the subject. I spoke Earnestly and loudly, because I had to do so in order to command the attention of the Conl vention. Mr. BROMWELL. All right, Mr. President. It is the enthusiastic nature of the gentleman that betrayed me into the mistake. But, as so much has been said, since there is a new printing contract looming up, and since. it appears that after all that was said the printing has been done in such a manner that it had to be condemned by the committee, I mday as well add a few remarks. I undertake to say, sir, that in my opinion we could have had an opportunity to correct the proof in most cases. This manuscript goes from here by the hour, anid it goes to the printing office. Now, what hinders a compositor, when he has set up a galley of t3 pe, from takiiJg a proof of it? Does he not take a pro,of of it for the proof reader'? What is the reason why we cannot see that proof? And, sir, I may be allowed to say fur. ther, that it would become the institution to have a better proof reader than it has. I have seen gross errors in the print —errors that no proof reader should allow to go uncorrected —manifest errors. But I am not complaining of manifest errors. Tey 296 MARCIE[ 14, 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1181 prepared a resolution at his suggestions I corrected this for the Globe edition, cal led the attention of the official stenograper to it, and did not think it necessary to call the attention of the Convention to the fact. The correspondent of the Chicago Journal, after that, said that 1, being in a dilemma, charged the authorship on him, which he denied. He was misinformed, and perhaps misled by this mistake in the Convention debates. I have no fault to fiiid with him. I would not accuse him Of lying. If he errs, it is in sticking to the truth so tight sometimes that he stretches it past recognition. I was in no dilemma. A dilemma has horns-two of them-and one has a choice which he will hang on; but the Register had run one horn and the Times the other into me, without saying by your leave, and so I was in rio dilemma-the dilemma was in me. [Laughter.] I am not very proud of tba-,, resolution-I do not propose to copyright it-but I do not seek to charge it on any one, and never did. I am iiot the Only one who has walked on stilts about Mt. VernoD, let me say, and close. have we had them, I would like to know? We were told that this work must be done promptly, and therefore high prices would be necessary. Has the work been done promptly? N o. When the work has failed to come on the tables -promptl, what do we hear? The gentlean offers a resolution, based upon the fact that the parties to the contract h ve printed this matter upon worthless paper, as a rea on wh- we should enter into new contracts with the -parties to the coiatract-with the very same par ties. Mr. TURNER. That occurred in this way: At the commencement of this session, there was a great deal of talk about economy and extravagance, and the Secretary of Sta,te, taking the cue from the remarks of members on this floor, that the State was entering upon a gen eral system of economy, furnished the paper for the Globe of the cheapest quality which could be found, and therefore the printer was uot to blame for that, nor was the Committee on PrintiDg. Mr. BROMWELL. There it goes-I am not intending to blame anybody, where hey do not deserve the blame, but I was betrayed into that mistake by the gedtlemati's own remarks. If it is not the fault of the contractors, I make no charge. If it is the blunder of any officer or committee, or whomsoever it may be,!oDe thing is certa-in-we are in a scrape. We have been expending money -on a contract for the printing of the debates, which is COStiDg an enorM()US sum of money; and now, when the COI,VeDtion is nearly through, we flnd the wh'ole thing is to be done over agai?. Nobody is to blame, of course. It is the same tliidg as a steamboat explosion -rio blame attached to ofDt2ers or crew. F(-r my part, I am opposed to spending a-nother dime on ar-ty of this business. If we are in for a contract to print these debate,s, let us staged by it, because we have no right to vi4)1,ate it, unless we compensate the -contractors. But so far as enteritig idto -new arradgements is concerned, I,;ay, "Let the thitig stand just where it is. Mr. MEDILL. Mr. President: From the geijtl:einan's remarks, it is easy to see that this printing bU3iness is considerably mixed. I had a premonition when I was appointed on the PriDtiYlg Committee, that it would bring me to grief bef)re I got through with it It was with the ut -laost reluctance that I consented to serve, aild I did consent only at the urgent solicitatioiisof several gentlemen. I saw at the outs(,t that there was not in SpriDgfiCld the mechanical- facilities to accomplish more than a specific amount of work. Ajid while the printers were pretty enthusiastic as to their ability to perform, I never partook of their confidence in that regard. But, to the matter before; us. Let me give the Convention a plain narrative of just how the printidg matter stands. When this Convention resolved, almost unanimously, to print their debates ia newspaper and Globe form (and I recollect hardly any exception to that determination, certainly no exception on the part of the member from' Coles [Mr. Bromwell],) the committee regarded it in the light of imperative instructions, and proceeded-to make the best arrangements with the printers of the city that they could. 118w CONSTITUTIONAL CO~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~YE~~~TION MONDAY,~~~~~~~ poor printer and swept him away. [Laugter. ] Mr. BROMWELL. Mr. Chairman: I wish to ask the gentleman if it was not stated on the floor by the committee, that there were to be three revises of the copy? Mr. MEDILL. No,sir,not three; that is just fifty p(r cent. too much. The contract calls for two only, and every member read it before it was concluded. Mr. BROMWELL. Other gentlemen recollect the same. Where are the two revises? Mr. MEDILL. I will come to that question directly. Mr. CAMERON. Mr. Chairman: With the permission of my colleague, I would say, the question has been raised by several gentlemen that three proofs are stipulated for in the contract. I will read the contract. It is provided that "two proofs of all the speeches, etc., shall be furnished members for correction." The first proof is the proof that is given to the members for correction in the manuuscript, and the second proof is that which is given before printing in the Globe form. Mr. MEDILL. That is the construction the contractor puts on his agreement, though I do not agree with him in regard to it. Mr. BROMWELL. Mr. Chairman: This matter was generally understood on the floor, as I have stated it. I never understood but that there were to be two proofs-the manuscript proof not being considered one. It is not the part of the printer to furnish the manuscript copy. fMr. MEDILL. Mr. Chairman: I never heard of such a thing as three proofs furgnished to anybody in any deliberative b )dy since the art of printing was first devised. But the gentleman refers to the Globe in Washington. Let me explain. The Globe office is a printery worth a quarter of a million of dollars in types and presses, and employs, perhaps, one hundred compositors. That Globe office has facilities to take possession of all the manuscript furnished from the short-hand reporters, and put it in type in two or three hours, when the necessity arises There are no such facilities in Springfield, iin Illinois, or any western city, to put debates in type, as in the Washington Globe N)ffice. There is no office in the United States that can do it, with the rapidity of that office. It is a national printery, havitg a great contract with the government, worth hundreds of thousands of dollars per annum, and the contractor is obliged to keep a multitude of men,-enough to swarm around copy, —each man snatching up a "take," and sweeping the whole day's debates of Congress into tvpe in an inconceivably small period of time. But in this city there is a limited force, both of machinery and compositors in any office Printers are obliged to work all night to get the copy in type. It would be possible for the contractor to furnish a printed proof of the forenoon debates, perhaps, but it would be utterly out of the question to do that in the case of the afternoon debates, for everything that occurs here after dinner is set up after most of the members are in their beds, or scattered about in places of amusement, or in the committee rooms, where they could not be found. It is therefore In the first place, how much work was likely to be required? No member of the committee was able to forecast the extent of the cataract of talk, that has since b ee n poured out in the Convention. I have heard deliberative bodies debate public affairs for a great many years, but I never before witnessed such a "gushing" assemblage as this has been for the last sixty or seventy days. The New York Convention, which was the most recent Constitutional Convention from which we could draw our conclusions, averaged, in printer's computation, about fifty thousanid to sixty thousand ems a day, or what would make in the Globe form about ten or twelve pages. The Michigan Convention, which sat about the same time as the New York Convention, averaged from fifteen to seventeen pages a day of their Globe form, in two sizes larger type than that.which we selected. The O(hio Conivention averaged about sixty-five thousand ems per day, or say thirteen pages of our Globe type. Now, that was the best data we had on which to compute and make estimates. We had the printed debates and proceeditgs of three Constitutional Conventions of recent date, before us, and accord iug to the best estimates we could make from the debates of those three Conventions, we estimated that this Convention would fill about twelve pages a day —I-ot to exceed fifteen pages in any event —and so stated to the Convention as early as January 6th. We based our calculations upon the production of that amount of matter. We supposed the Convention would begin with about ten pages a day, and never get above fifteen or sixteen. We supposed a much larger proportion of the time of the Convention would be engaged in committees than has been. Nor did we suppose the Convention would sit on Saturday, or that it would sit on Monday forenoon; for half its term we supposed it would hold but one session a day, iinstead of two, and we came to these conclusions, from the precedents we had of other Conventions. The New York Convention met every week on Tuesday and adjourned every Friday. The Ohtio Convention met on Monday and adjourned every Friday morning; and the Michigan Convention met on Monday and adjourned on Friday, as a rule. Nobody on that committee for a moment dreamt that this Convention would commence work on Mon~day morning at ten o'clock, and keep it up in one unceasing stream of debate until Saturday night, after the going down of the sun, and the lighting of gas. We have been producing here, Mr. President, from twenty-four to twentysiix pages a day of G~lobe form, instead of twel,ve or fifteen, as we originally estimated. Of course the printer with whom we ~~)ntrsacted, purchased his materials and fungished his office with facilities to pro {lace our speeches, in the quantity the committee first supposed would not be exceeded. But the Convention has over:flowed the contractor like a river that spreads over its banks, sweeping every thing away. He has been drowned out with talk;F and the gentleman from Coles [Mr. Bromwell] has contributed his ull proportion, as an affluent to that rushing, gushing river, which has Submerged the imnpossible to place these priosted revises or proofs of each day's proceedings in the hands of members on the same day or night. The only possible way it can be done, is to intermit a day, and have Monday's debates appear on Wednesday, and Tuesday's on Thursday. In that way members could be furnished with a copy of their remarks in type before their appearance in the Convention PRegister. Mr. BROMWELL. Mr. Chairman: I would like to ask the gentleman if the contract to furnish us this manuscript is not a contract with the reporters, and if that was to be iicluded in the two proofs-if the printer, too, is not to furnish proof of his own work? Mr MEDILL. We have a contract with the reporters, certainly, but the printer based his work upon what the reporters were expected to furnish him. I think the gentleman has been very unreasonable in the harshnessof his criticism. He forgets that very few gentlemen upon this floor were ever reported before by verbatim reporters, or accustomed to speak before short-hand reporters, and have their remarks put in type while the words were yet warm front their lips. But few men upon this floor have ever acquired the facility to speak with written accuracy, or to deliver their remarks just as they would have them appear in the Globe. I did not make sufficient allowance for this oratorical defect, at first, but I had not been here a week before I discovered that gentlemen of this Convention were compelled to make corrections in their matter to a much greater extent than the contractor had any conception of when the contract was made. I will say in reply to the gentleman from McHenry [Mr. Church], that I have made personal examiniationjs of the manuscript and the printed revises, and I fins that while some members have not materially changed the sense of their remarks, yet every member, with a few exceptions (old practiced speakers), has made numerous changes of words, additions, subtractions, interlineations, and reconstructions of phraseology, (perhaps within a fair limit), for the purpose of placing his remarks in a more accurate and grammatical form before the reading public. Very few have made improper inlterpolatio~ns, but corrections of language and in the structure of sen-tences have been made in thousands of instances. And yet, Mr. Chairmlan, these same correctionis, when mnade in the body of a paragraph, occasion considerable additionaal expense to the printer. For the printers have to "over-runl" somsetimles a "stick full," in order to get the words in, or to "space-back" to the end of the paragraph, before other words can be gotten out.:Every gentleman who has any knowledge of the art of printing must know that when speakers make these changes in their remarks, and do not strike out a word to supply the space of the words to be in:serted, they do put the printers to a serious degree of trouble. We have no contract with the printers to "over-run" this set up matter, at theircost, to whatever extent members choose to change their remarks after they are in type; and it would be unf~air to exact it, if we had inveigled the contractor into foolishly agreeing to do ilk t r e t t t r e t 6 e r s e d e e 11 t s s f I f 0 e ia CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION -MONDAYI 1182 MAROH 14, 18'TO. DEBATES AXI) I'ROCEEDIXGS. 1183~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ports, and that the cost of these several alter ations and revisions, made before the debates appear in the Globe form, shall also be at the expense of the contractor. Will the gentleman from Cook [Mr. Medill] have the kindness to inform the Convention whether the publishers of the debates of this Convention have furnished members of the Convention with proof or aff)rdcd them three revises of tLeir re marks? Mr. MEDILL. Mr. President: When those remarks were made, there was no contract completed with the printer. This was an outliue of what I deemed, in my smind, at the time, the process through which this work would have to go, in order to have it correct; but the contract was made subsequently; was read by every member, and seen in print; and a good many days after that time the com-n einittee was authorized to contract on the basis of the report printed and before the Convention. If I spoke of one more re vise than was put in the contract subse quently, and the Convention ratified that contract afterwards, the printer is not responsible for any omission to which the gentleman now calls attention. I have already explained that it has become utterly impossible for the printer to fill the contract, as the gentleman seems to have understood it, and get the Register out next morning. I h-ve stated that without the facilities of the WashiLigtoa Globe, with its hundred compositors and numerous presses, the work of this Con-is vention cannot be done in Springfield, at the rate at which matter has been pro duced here. Whatever may have been the agreement, or my remarks before that agreement was made, as to whatthe prin ters should perform, it was based on an estimate of twelve pages a day. But all such calculations are spoiled, and must be set aside when the Convention produces twenty-four to twenty-six pages per day. It is physically impossible with the facili ties in this city, for any office here to do it, and give even one proof. It is not worth while n,ow to call up what may have been said last New Year's, when the state of facts have been so ma terially changed. Men and machinery to put in type tour newspaper pages in good shape, will utterly fail to put six, seven, or eight pages in type, and that is what the trouble is with this whole business. The Convention has over-talked the ca pacity of the contractor. If the Convention should give the printer twenty-four hours leeway between the issues of the Register, we could then have the second revise, which is here demanded; but if we want the paper out the next morning, we cannot have even one revise unless we sit up all night and wait for it. We did try to so furnish a proof at night. A mess sger went to the rooms of members with their proofs and found some in bed, others gone to the committee rooms, and others at the theater. Some had gone home before seeing their matter, and it was found imnossible to get all the proofs back in time to issue the paper the next morning. So we had to give up sending proofs to the members at night. Now sir, let us come back; to the practical question. After having printed four or five hundred pages of debates in Globe form, we discovered that the paper furnished by the State was altogether inferior to what was wanted, and we unhesitatingly rejected it. It was too "eco Npow, another point. The o riginal con tract with the co ntractors was to furnish u s with a daily tegieter. We made the agreement with him on the hypothesis that the Convention would fill a twenty four column sheet per day, but we are producing thirty-six to forty columns per day. There are eight short-hand report ers, who furnish copy to the printers, in eight different handwritings, some in ink, some in pencil. Besides this, cor rections are made in eighty-five different hai:dwrit.ings. Sometimes, lines or pages, sentences or paragraphs, are inserted or substituted, written with ink or pencil, much of it in a very difficult and obscure style of writing, members often making corrections and neglecting to erase the words they want changed, thus leaving the type-setter and the proofreader ia perplexity as to the purpose or intention of the speaker. All this, sir, is rolled like a flood upon the printers, to be put in type at unseasonable hours. when the compositors are worn out with the ex haustion of long continued labor over dull type by gas light; when the mind is stupified, and the brain drowsy. This matter is made up of law lingo, legal quotations, and abstruse discussions of constitutional problems, about which printers have had little previous knowl ed,,e. All this is flooded in upon them, as I said, in ninety different kinds of manuscripts, and at hours when human nature demands rest and sleep. These are some of the difficulties with which the printers have to contend. No wonder they mis interpr.:t their copy and set up words wrongly. Now, sir, the contractor.found it impossible to get the revises corrected in time for,he Globe, without retarding the Register, and thus he drifted behind. The excess of matter, and the excess of correctious combined, exceeded the limits of his utmost powers of execution. The contractor put on extra men, and paid extra wages, but all in vain; the verbosity and errors of speech of the Convention overwhelmed him as the Red sea did Pharoah and his hosts. It was east wind in both cases that produced the catastrophe. Iia the hurry of making up the Globe pages from the Register, printers made nmistakes; they got pages in wrong, dates wrong, pages wrongly numbered; occasionwally they got ill words that were not corrected; some one or two passages were omitted; in one plate part of a speech was left out. Mr. SCHIOLFIELD. Mr. President: I desire, with his permission, to call the attention of the gentleman from Cook [Mr. Medili] to his remarks, made in Conlvention January 6th, in regard to the nlumber of revises of members' remlarks allowed before publicartionl ill the Globe. I read frome the G/lobe: We have provided, Mr. President, that the contractor shall give to this Convention a "proot" and a "revise," in printers' parlane, of' all the mat~ter or material furnished. After the matter is set up and corrected, the con1tractor furnishes a proof of it. The member corrects his remarks. A revise is afterwards taken, and each member corrects the revise. All the corrections, alterations and ov~er-runnings, so-called,_ within any reasonable bounds, are to be done at the cost of the contractor. It is provided, furthermore, that after this matter has appeared in newspaper form, and is ready to be transtbrred to the Globe form, the members of this Convention shall have the privilege of a third or final revisionl of t~heir remarks, resolutions arnd - MARCII 14' 1870. DEBATES AN-D PROCEEDINGS. 1183 .uonaical" a kind of paper for a book, altogether. No member would be willing to take home GlobesPprinted on such flimsy, rot teii, thin, straw paper. It was too thin and too light to allow decent press work. It will tear easily, and rub to pieces in handlid-. We condemned the paper very properly, as I believe. What are we to do? We are g,-)ing to adjourn in a few days. Shall we discoil tiiiue the Convention Register-dispense with it, and print the remaining debates only in Globe, form, thereby giving members plenty of time to revise a,,id correct their remarks to their heart's con tent? The remaini-jly debates will make the third'volume of he Globe. There is now matter enough for two volumes of the Globe, which has to be set up again, correctly, and can be carefully revised; or shall the printed debates be abandoned where they now are? That is the question for the Con-'-e-ition to determine. It will cost, of course, something to set up these two volumes of proceedings; but the printer agrees to throw off all his charges for these extra corrections and over-runnidgs which he has been obliged to make, and to reset the Globe for sixty-five cents per one thousand ems, and sixty cents per token for presq, work. He is now P3,YiDg his type-setters half a dollar a thousand, for composition. He is making nothing on his contract. He is not going tO get Ollt of it,,vithout losing considerable money, unless he is -Dretty careful. Without anv more words on the subject, what does the Convention desire the committee to do in the premises? Shall er this matter. Globe we ord printed in form, or abandon the whole thidg? My position on the commi'ttee is just as the gentleman from Stephenson [Mr. Turner] explained his to b,,-an exceedidgly disagreeable one, in which one gets all the kicks aiud cuffs, aDc! no thanks fo:r trouble and labor, notwithstanding every. thing in the power of man is done to overcome -the difficulties in the way. This printing business has been a bother aad vexation to me from the first day-more vexatious than anything else that has taken place this winter, and I do not propose to stand any more f),ult-fladiDg. Aly resignation will be placed in the hands of the Chair when an entleman 114C-TTTOA (NETO oDY proposition, and then if there is anything wrong in it, it can be remnedied. Mr. HAINES, of Cook. Mr. Chairman: I understand we postponed section thirtynine until we get through with the bal — of this report, and as this may give rise to considerable discussion like the previous section, my idea is that it would be better to be postponed also. Mr. ANTHONY. Mr. Chairman: I understood from the remarks made by gentlemen upon the floor, that it was the desire to take up section thirty-nine in connection with the report of the Committee on Counties, that had made a report affecting the same subject, and I, for one, am perfectly willing to do it; but I do not desire to have the balance of the article postponed from time to time. Mr. HAINES, of Lake. I do not so understand it. I would ask the Chair what disposition was made with section thirty-nine? The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman from JoDaviess [Mr. Cary] first moved to have it postponed and taken up with the report of the Committee on Counties. That motion not being in order, he modif ied ir, and moved to postpone until after the remainder of the article had been gone through with. Mr. CARY. Mr. Chairman: The only reason why I wished to postpone that sec tion was, that other counties in the State were interested in that question. But, sir, section forty does not affect any county but the counity of Cook, and I think there are very urgent reasons why we should pass upon that section at the. present time, because it will be making a very radical change in the appointments of justices in the county of Cook, if we adopt it. If there are any radical difftrences ameoneg the people of Cook county, between this time and the time fixed for our re-assembling here, we shall know what these differences are, and how it is best onI the whole for us to act. I think it is better, so long as such a radical charge is reported by the Judi ciary Committee, to act upmon it at the present time, so that when we come back we shall know what course to pursue. Mr. HAINES, of C, ok. Mr. Chairman: As it seems to be the desire of the majority of our delegation, I will withdraw my motion for the present The CHAIRMAN. The question is upon section forty. Mr. HAINES, of Lake. Mr. Chairman: I wish to offer as an amendment to str ike out all after the word "be," in the sixth line, to the word "and," in the ninth line, and insert so that it shall read "shall be elected by the electors of the district." Mr. SKINNER. Mr. Chairman: Ibeg leave to suggest that I cannot conceive that in sections of this character, any great harm will arise by reporting them pro formza The subject is all open inq committee, and should be so treated by each meniber. If we enter upon debate upon these sections, it is goiug to consume a great deal of time. It is desired that the recess should take place early, and that what is proposed should be printed and go before the people, so that members may be better advised when they return. I am perfectly willing to waive all objection and report the sections as a matter of form. Mr. HITCHCOCK. Mr. Ch ai rman: I rise to say that so far as I am concerned, I will assent cheerfully to the proposition of the gentleman from Adams [Mr. Skinner], that these two sections be reported pro forma to the Convention. I assent to it because I believe that during the recess some propositions may be agreed upon that will save the committee very considerable time in the discussion of amendments that might be suggested to-day. Mr. SKINNER. I would say, Mr. Chairman, that so far as I can understand the views of the committee, such a course would be agreeable. If the gentleman from JoDaviess [Mr. Cary] will allh,w a reconsideration of his motion to postpo(ne section thirty-nine, it may be formally reported to the Convention, and the sectious may go out printed to the people, for their consideration, during the recess. The CHAIRMAN. The question is on the amendment proposed by the gentleman from Lake [Mr. Haiaes]. Mr. CARY. If the various amendments are to be withdrawn, I will not obj ect. Mr. HAINES, of Lake. Mr. Chairman: The object of the recess is that members may go home and confer with their constituents to some extent, with the hope that they may come back with further light on the subject of their duties and the wishes of the people. I think it would be a very good plan, as the gentleman trom Adams [Mr. SkinnerJ has suggested, to refer back to the Convention the whole article as it is, and let it go to the people as having been adopted at the present time, that it may be considered, but subject to any amendment that we may think proper to make hereaftertreat it as if adopted for the time being. We may come back after our recess and concur in it afterwards. In order to carry out the resolution which has been adopted, that certain articles be printed and distributed during the recess, we will prob, lbly have to adopt this article, without much further debate or amendment, as amatter of form, and I would therefore be willing to withdraw all amenltme, ts I have offered, for the time being, and let the whole article be reported as a matter of form. I widl consent to withdraw mine if the gentleman who has o,fiered the other amendment, to which mine applies, withdraws his. Mr. SKlINNER. Mr. Chairman: I thin,k I offtred the o,ther amendment, and l am willing to withdraw it with that view. Mr. TURNER. Mr. Chairman: If the course is tos be pursued of withdrawing all amendments and reporting pro forman, I wish to withdraw my amendment also, with the unJderstanding that during the recess I shall enldeavor to prepare what will meet my views in regard to this question of fees; and I hope every other gentleman Will do the same thing. Mr. HAINES, of Cook. Mr. Chairman: I understand the mlotionl of the gentleman from Adams [Mr. Skinner] to be that the whole article be reported. Mr. TURNER. Mr. Chairman: I understansd it is the whole of the Cook county article that is to be reported pro f or~i. The CHAIRMAN. The committee have got through with- that portion of the article relating to Cook- cunty, with the COOK COUNqTY JUDICIARY. The Clerk read section thirty nine, as follows: SEC. 39. The clerks of all courts of record, the treasurer, sheriff, coroner and recorder of deeds, in said county of Cook, shall receive salaries for their services, to be fixed by law, which shall be payable quarterly, out of' the treasury of said county, and which shall not be changed during their terms of office; but in no case shall the highest salary of either of said officers be as much as the compensation allowed by law to a judge of the circuit court of Cook county. Said courts shall determine by rule, to be entered of record, the number of assistants to be employed by the clerk, and their compensation shall be fixed by law, and paid quarterly out of the treasury of said county, and shall not be increased during their terms of office. All fees, perquisites and emoluments of every kind incident to litigation in said courts, shall be collected in such manner as shall be provided by law, and paid into the treasury of said county. Mr. HAINES, of Lake. I wish to offer the following amendment to the section, to be postponed with it. The Clerk read the amendment offered by Mr. Haines, of Lake, as follows: Strike out all after the word "be" in the sixth line, to the word "and" in the ninth line, and insert, "elected by the electors of such district." The CHAIRMAN. The question is upon the motion of the gentleman from JoDaviess [Mr. Cary] to postpone section thirty niine and the pendin,g amendments. The motion was agreed to. Thie Clerk read section forty as follows: SEC. 40. There shall beno justices of the peace or police magistrates in the city of Chicago, after the expiration of the terms of existing justices of the peace and police magistrate,-; and the General Assembly thall, at its first session after the adoption of this Constitution, divide the city into districts, and estahlish courts therein, to consist of one or more judges for each district, and such officers as may be provided by law. The judges of said court shall be appointed by the Governor, by and with the advice and consent of the senate; but no person shall be appointed, except upon the recommendation of a majority of the judges of the circuit, superior and county courts, and shall hold their offices for fo.ur years, and until their successors be commissioDed and qualified. Such courts shall have jurisdiction in civil cases at law, in said city, where the amount in controversy does not exceed two hundred dollars, and such criminal jurisdiction as may be conferred by law. The compensation of said judges shall be fixed by law, and paid out of the city treasury, and shall not be increased during their terms of office. All fees and perquidites shall be paid into the city treasury. Appeals, in civil cases, from justices of the peace, in said county, and t~omn said courts, established in said districts, shall be allowed to the circuit or superior court of Cook county, in such manner as may be provided by law. Mr. HAINES3, of Cook. I move that section torty take the same course with s.ectionl thirty-nine. Mr. ANTHONY. Mr. Chairman: 1 trust my colleague will withdraw thsatmotion for the time being, and let the section be reported back and printed with the other proceedings. When we go home we can adjust, I am satisfied, all these little matters with regard to our affairs, so that there Wvill be no difficulty Let us not take up the further tilme of the committee. I do not wish to persist in anything, only I wish that the committee would consent to have this article reported back, so that our peolMe can see the CONSTITUTIONAI, CONVENTION 'MONDAY 1184: sideration section thirty-nitie. A n-iotion had been made to postpone th:At section until the rest of the article had been gone through with. MoH 14, 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1185 not have a duplication. The committee endeavored to make the language so broad as to cover everything beyond salary. Mr. TINCHER. Mr. Chairman: I will withdraw my amendment, as the gentle men who compose the Committee upon the Judiciary think the point is covered. I desire only to so fix it that the Legis lature cannot by any means get round or disregard it, and after service is per formed seek to allow for this service ad ditional pay. Mr. TRUESDALE. Mr. Chairman: It will be remembered by the members of this committee that a great deal of dis cussion has been had with reference to dividing the State into judicial districts. Great differences of opinion have been expressed here, but with reference to the proper basis upon which these districts shall be made, nearly all the members of the committee concur in the belief that the population and not the business, is the only proper basis upon which the State should be divided into judicial dis tricts. Now, sir, it was manifest from the dis cussion upon that question that the mem bers of the Committee of the Whole did not have the proper data or the necessary infbrmation to enable them to divide the State into judicial districts upon any basis. Now my suggestion is this, to pro vide in this section, that the judges of the several courts of record of this State be required to report to the General As sembly, through the Governor, the num ber of days each holds court in the sev. eral counties of their respective districts. The CHAIRMAN. Does the gentle man propose that as an amendment? Mr. TRUESDALE. Yes, sir. I pro pos e to have the judges report to each ses sion of the General Assembly, the nunm ber of days they hold court in the coun ties in their respective districts. That will furnish the General Assembly with the necessary information on which to make a division of the State into districts. The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman will write out his amendment. Mr. SKINNER. Would the gentleman not prefer having the number of cases reported-a better mode of supplying the information? Mr. TRUESDALE. Any way, M~r. Chairman, so that the information is supplied. Mr. UNDERWOOD. Mr m r. Chairman: Such information would only be required once in six years. The circuits are to be divided or arranged once in six years I before the j udges are elected and circuits re arranged. The Legislature can call upon the clerks of the courts for that informationor they may call upon the judges themselves. Hence it would hardly be necessary to make the provision in the Constitution. Mr. TRUESDALE. Mr. Chairman: My purpose or object would be to require the existing judges to furnish this information to the next General Assembly, because even the next General Assembly may be called upon to divide the State into judicial districts, and unless the judges meanwhile be required to furnish that information, it will not be done. After the next Legislature it may be regulated by them, but until that exceptision of four sections. The gentle man from Adams [Mr. Skinner] proposes that the four last sections relating to Cook county-thirtv-nine to forty-two-be re ported pro forma to the Convention, as approved by the committee. The motion of Mr. Skinner to postpon e sections t hirty- nine, forty, forty-one and forty-two, wa s ag ree d to. JUDICIAL OFFICEIRS. The Clerk read section forty-three, as follows: SEC. 43. All judicial officers shall be com missioned by t he Governor. Mr. SKINNER. Mr. Chairman: I de sire to say to the committee, in regard to the sectionsof the rep rt under the head of general provisions, that they are umat ters generally necessary to -perfect the v ariou s other sections of the article, ex cept what relates to Cook county. To avoid repetition of language, the gen eral provisions are made to cover the whole. I desire to say further that these gen eral provisions were very thoroughly in vestigated by the sub-committee, that there might be no question of every de sired thing being covered in the fewest possible words, and I am satisfied that in this every member of the committee will concur with me. Section forty-three was agreed to. LAWS FOR AND PRACTICE OF COURTS. SEc. 44. All laws relating to courts shall be general and of uniform operation; and the organization, jurisdiction, powers, proceed ings and practice of all courts, of the same class or grade, so far as regulated by law, and the force and effect of the process, judgments and decrees of such courts, severally, shall be uniform. Section forty-four was agreed to. The CHAIRMAN. The question is up on the adoption of section forty-five. The Clerk read section forty-five, as follows: SEC. 45. The General Assembly may, for cause entered on the journals, upon due notice and opportunity of defense, remove from office any judge, upon concurrence of threefourths of all the members elected, of each house. All other officers in this article mentioned shall be removed from office on indictment and final conviction for misdemeanor in office. Section forty-five was agreed to. The CHAIRMAN. The question is upon the adoption of section forty-six. The Clerk read section forty-six, as follows: SEC. M6. All judges of courts of record, inferior to the supreme court, shall, on or before the first day of June, of each year, report in writing to the judges of the supreme couSt, such defects and omissions in the laws, as their experience may suggest, and the judges of the supreme court shall, on or before the first day of January, of each year, report, in writing, to the Governor (to be by him communicated to the General Assembly), such defects and omissions in the Constitution and laws as they may find to exist, together with appropriate forms of bills to cure such defects and omissions in the laws. Mr. TINCHER. Mr. Chairman: I move that it be amended so that they shall receive no additional pay for thi~s service. Mr. UND)ERWOOD. That is provided for in another section. ~, Mr. SKINNER. Mr. Chairman: It is provided in another section that beyond the salary fixed for the judges, they shall receive no other compensation, perquisite or emolament whatever. * My suggestion is simply that we shall 297 time there is no means provided for sup plying that information. Mr. UNDERWOOD. Mr. Chairman: The Generil Assemblv at its next meet ing will of course require information, but they will do as has been done before was done by the last Convention in 1862 -call upon the cle rks of the ci rcuit courts or upon the judges, and they will be bound to respond to that call. And I may add, that this method will save the State expense. We shall have the benefit of that information without additional compensation now allowed by law. The President, according to the Con stitution of the United States, must fur nish information to congress, but there is no provision that the judicial department shall do so, when all the laws are ex pounded and enforced, and errors and in justice discovered by the various courts. The omissionl is also in our State Consti tution. Now, there is not a statute in this State that does not come before the courts for construction and decision from time to time; and if the inferior courts find that a statute works injustice they can and should report that fact to the judges of the supreme court. They could select from these reported defects, those mani fest ones, that evidently require amend ment, and this would very much aid the legislative department in perfecting our statutes and Constitution. In a wisely constituted government, each department should aid all the other departments in performing their duties. Now, the executive of the State is re quired to communicate to the Legislature all the information he has of the state of the laws. Why not the judiciary? If this section be now adopted it will very much facilitate the improvement of our laws. The other proposition, being mere ly applicable to the next General Assem b'-y, and every six years, it is hardly ne cessary to incorporate it in the Colnstitu tion, fbr the reasons I have already stated. This proposition will and should be permanent in its operation, and last during the existence of the government. The Clerk read the'amendment offered by Mr. True,dale, as follows: Add at the end of the section, "and that the judges of the several circuit courts shall report to the next General Assembly the number of days they have held court in the several counties composing their respective districts, the preceding two years." Mr. McCOY. Mr. Chairman: I do not know that the amendment is susceptible of an amendment of the kind that I w~>alld like to make; but I suggest that the gentleman add, "and to report what other time will be necessary to perform the judicial service in said district, if any." The question being on the amendmlent offered by Mr. Truesdale, a division was ordered. The committee divided, whenthe amendment was agreed to. ~;~?,,-.~. The CHAIRMAN. The question is upon the section as amended. Section forty-six, as amended, was agreed to. The CHAIRMAN. The Clerk will read section forty-seven. The Clerk read section forty-seven, as follow s: Ace. 47. All officers provided for Xn this article shall hold their officess until their suc. cessors shall be qualified, and shall, respe~tiveiy, reside in the division, circuit, county or KA:RCE 14, 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1185 1t6 CONSTITUTIONAL COYENTiON MONDAY, well known that a class of lawyers in the cities, who are sometimes called jail lawyers, are retained to carry this game out, and get a class of men upon the jury that they can control. There is no desire to strike at any class of persons because they are poor, but to strike at the root of the thing, and make it broad enough to avoid the evil, apparent to all, of what are sometimes called "professional jurors." For that purpose the section was introduced, and it was the desire of the committee to go no further than to cure the acknowledged evil. Mr. McDOWELL. Mr. Chairman: While perhaps much of what the gentleman from Adams [Mr. Skinner] has said is correct, yet I know of no reason that in the organic law we are about framing, we should make such a discrimination as is sought to be made here. There may be reasons why men are poor, and unable to pay taxes, and yet, perhaps, as well qualified as any tax-payer in the land. If such evils exist as the gentleman has stated, they can be regulated in another way, and in a different manner from what is proposed here. The CIIAIRMAN. The question is upon the amendment proposed by the gentleman from White [Mr. McDowell]. A division was ordered. The committee divided, when, there being nineteen in the affirmative, and twenty-one in the negative, the motion was not agreed to. The CHAIRMAN. The question is upon the section. Mr. WENDLING. Mr. Chairman: Was there a quorum voting at the last count? The CHAIRMAN. There was no quorum voting. The attention of the Chair having been called to that fact, the vote will be taken over again. Every gent leman is expected to vote, unless excused by vote of the committee. Mr. HAINES, of Lake. Mr. Chairman: I would suggest that in Committee of the Whole, if there is a quorum present, and the question is carried one way or the other, the presumption is that those who did not vote concurred. Those who do not vote are presumed to be with the party in the majority. The CHAIRMAN. The Chair has som e doubt in regard to that. It seems to the Chair that the presumption is that there is always a quorum unless the contrary appears. When the vote is taken by a count, and the count shows less than a quorum, the presumption appears to be reversed. There is certainly a quorum present. Does the gentleman from Shelby [Mr. Wendling] insist upon his call for anoth-j er division? Mr. WENDLING. Mr. Chairman: I am inclined to insist upon my call for a quorum in this matter, because I conceive that it is one of more than ordinary importance. The proposition to impose upon jurors a property qualification is one that seems entirely inconsistent with the settled, wellestablished principles of our government in every department. I know of no good reason for it. I cannot conceive why a man whose opinion is worth as much as yours or mine, is not, when deprived of his property by misfortune, as well quali district, for which they may be elected or appointed. The terms of office of all such officers, where not otherwise prescribed in this article, shall be four years. And all who may be in office at the adoption of this Constitution shall continue to hold their offices until the expiration of the terms for which they were respectively elected. All officers, where not otherwise provided for in this article, shall perform such duties and receive such compensation as is or may be provided by law. Vacancies in such elective offices shall be filled by election; but where the unexpired term does not exceed one year, the vacancy shall be filled by appointment, as follows: Of judges, by the Governor; of clerks of courts, by the court to which the office appertains, or by the judge or judges thereof; and of all such other offices, by the board of supervisors or board of county commissioners, in the county where the vacancy occurs. Mr. HAY. Mr. Chairman: In consequence of some change that was made in this report referring to circuit judges n ow in office, som e slight amendme nt to the provision in lines five and six of this section may b e necessary. We have provided in the section relating to existing circuit judges that they shall hold their offices until otherwise provided by law, leaving the next Legislature to dispense with any supernumera ry judge there may then be. In order to make this section correspond with that we shall probably have to change it slightly. I therefore move to amend, by adding to the section, after the word "elected," the words "unless herein otherwise provided." The amendment was agreed to. The CHAIRMAN. The question is upon the section as amended. Section forty-seven, as amended, was agreed to. The CHAIRMAN. The Clerk will read section forty-eight. The Clerk read section forty-eight, as follows: SEe. 48. All process shall ran, In the name of The People of the State of Illinois; and all prosecutions shall be carried on In the name and by the authority of the People oj the State of Illinois, and conclude Against the peace and dignity of the same. All laws providing compensation, by fees, to ministerial or other officers, provided for in this article, shall, as to each class of said officers, be general and uniform throughout the State. "Population," wherever used in this article, shall be determined by the next preceding census of this State or of the United States. Section forty-eight was agreed to. The Clerk read section forty-nine, as ~follows: SEC. 49. In all courts of record in this State, it shall be a good ground of challenge of any juror that he has not been, for at least two years, a citizen of this State, or has not paid any property tax within two years next preceding; and whenever any such fact appears, it shall be the duty of the judge to discharge such juror from further service. And in no case shall any juror, for the courts of record in this State, be selected and summoned by the same officer- but, when talesmen are necessary, the court shall direct in what manner they shall be selected. -]Mr. McDOWELL. Mfr. Chairmn:ar I move to strike out all in the second line, from the word "State," to the word "and>" in the third line, the words, "or has not paid any property tax within two years next preceding." Mgr. SKINNER. ]gr. Chairman: The object of this section was to prevent an evil prevailing, especially in the larger counties and in the cities, of a class of persons hanging around, and endeavoring to get upon juries where the pancls are not full, or talcsmen art called. It is CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION AIONDAY~ 1186 fled to pass upon a question involved in a suit at law, as if he were worth a million. We should not countenance any other principle than that manhood is inherent in the citizen. Citizenship belongs to the individual and is part of the man himself. It will do for the goverment of England to declare that so much property, so many pounds sterling shall be necessary to entitle a man to perform any of the duties of citizenship; but I cannot conceive of any good and satisfactory reason which will warrant this Committee of the Whole in fixing any such qualification in free and democratic Illinois. Doubtless the wise and able gentlemen who constitute the Judiciary Committee can furnish to this committee some good reason for that extraordinary qualification, but, sir, I have not heard that reason, and until I have heard it, I am not prepared to support this forty-ninth section. I cannot, sir, with the light I now have, with the views I now entertain of what constitutes the right of citizenship and what constitutes a citizen of the Stateof Illinois, give my consent to any such provision as this, until I shall have received reasons that will warrant me in doing it. It seems to me utterly contrary, it seems to me utterly inconsistent, with any and every qualification that goes to make up citizenship in the State of Illinois. Therefore, sir, I insist upon a call, as I want to see a full vote upon the question, and shall move to strike out the entire section. Mr. CHURCH. Mr. Chairman: I regret to find that any gentleman of the committee supposes that this section in the report is for the purpose of creating a property qualification. That I have not supposed to be the object; but that the fact that the man does pay a property tax is one of the best evidences of his permanency as a resident within the bounds of the jurisdiction where he is called upon to act as a juror. In this State, sir, the fact that a man pays a tax does not depend on the amount of property he holds, for the reason that, under our present revenue system, all property is taxed, even the clock that stands on the mantlepiece, or anything worth from one to three dollars. Everv house-keeper, every man, practically, who is a permanent resident, is a tax payer. This i suppose to have been inserted for protection in cities more particularly. ]g~r. SNYDER. Permit me to make a remark. it has been decided lay our circuit courts that the general government taxes are not to be taken into consideration, in regard to this qualification; so that no matter how much general government taxes a citizen pays, if he pays no State taxes, he is not to be oualified a~s a juror. That has been so decided,. Mgr. CHURCH. Mr. Chairman: The gent~leman call hardly have-understood nc to refer to government taxes. Under our Skate revenue system every cow,every hog or sheep, and all personal as well as real property of the State is specifically taxed. Eve-n if a man is not worth a dollar in the world, though he might be thousands of dollars worse off than nothinlg, yet froma the fact that property is specially taxed, he pays a small tax annually. There are articles that every housekeeper must necessariy have, which are subject to taxation. A large portion of ~the taxes are exceedingl~ small. AROH 14, 18w. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 11S7 than upon'he verdict of the rich, penurious, miserly man, whose pockets are lined with bonds or greenbacks. I would rather be tried by an honest poor man, though hlie paid no taxes, than by some rich man, whose mind is continually centered on his bonds and mortgages. I believe the sentiment of the people is opposed to making any qualification in regard to a man's money. If a man is twenty-one years old, and a citizen of the State (that can be found out by proper and pertinent questions)I believe he is competent and qualified, so far as property is concerned, to every post from President down to the most humble position. I am in favor of placing the poor man, taxpayer or not, upon some platform where he will be equal with everybody else; not that of property, but that of citizenship. As was well stated by the gentleman from Coles [Mr. Bromwell],this provision could be easily evaded. A man could have his pocket-knife, for instance, assessed, and pay a tenth of a mill upon it, and thereby become qualified. Why, sir, as to "barnacles," I have known some men whom I considered "barnacles," who paid three times the taxes that I do, seekin g an opportunity to get on juries-men who paid about a hundred dollars taxes; men of considerable standing and wealth, who, however, have an overwhelming desire to get upon juries; men of money; and I have never seen a man hanging around our juries, but what does pay more or less taxes. If a man is unfit, or if he is poor, it can be found out by the attorney just as well by questioning him closely, as by putting this provision into the Constitution. I may add that it is legislation anyhow. [Here the hammer fel l 1 Mr. HAINES, of Lake. Mr. Chair, man: When I first read this section, I entertained the idea of the mover of this amendment. I thought it was introducing a property qualification, and, in that light, it was distasteful to me. After exs planation from the gentleman from McHenry [Mr. Church], who was one of the committee who framed this article, I amn led to concur with his views. It is for the purpose of fixing the location of jurors, which certainly is very important. This institution of juries is one of fixed locality. It is one of the rights of parties to have a jury from the locality where the parties live, or where the offense was committed. SpMr. CODY. Mr. Chairman: Does the gentleman understand from this, that it is necessary the juror should have paid a tax within the State? wkhr. HAINES, of Lake. It is impossible, in the organic law, to fix all the details to carry out the principles which we will lay down. I understood from the gentleman from McHenry [Mr. Church], rwho was upon this committee, and had a better opportunity of knowing the object of the committee, that it was to fix the locality of the juror. It declares that principle. - It is utterly impossible for this Convention to go on and fix the details, but the further fixing of the locality is to be left to the General Assembly upon this gen w e ra l principle. The principle has been put into the Constitution as it is now, and we have acquiesced in it for twenty years M and upwards, that a man to) be eligible to the General Assembly, shall have resided MARC-H 14, 1870. DEBATES AlMD PROCEEDINGS. 1187 This section does not contain an ex pression upon the great subject of prop erty qualifications. The fact, that a man may hold property does not make him a better juryman than the man who does not, but the fact that a man has property and has paid a tax within the jurisdiction he is acting in, is one of the best evidences that he is an actual bona fide resident, and not a mere interloper. a vagabond, lying around for the purpose of serving on a jury, as is the case in many of our cities, where there are, I am told, "professional" jurymen who, from term to term, hang around courts to be summoned as jurymen, thereby make, to a large extent, their means of support, and at the same time aid in clearing from just punishment others in kind. .Sr. BROMWELL. Mr. Chairman: I believe we have a law now which makes it a cause of challenge that a juryman has served upon a jury within the last twelve months, and if that law is not stringent enough it could be extended to two years. It seems to me that would clean out these professional jurymen sufficiently, without putting in this Constitution a provision that looks like a property qualification. I cannot see that this clause in the Constitution would keep out professional jurors. If they find out a little tax was required, they would pay fifteen cents taxes, and then would have you. This makes a sort of an invidious inquisition upon a man when he is brought into court as a juror in requiring him to give his tax list; but there is nothing invidious in inquiring as to his having served on a jury within a year. Mr. VANDEVENTER. Mr. Chair man. It does not strike my mind that the reason given by the gentleman from McHenry [Mr. Church] for the incorporation of this section in the Constitution is valid. HIe says it is not the intention to engraft upon the Constitution a property qualification for jurors, but it is to furnish some legitimate and conclusive evidence as to whether he is a resident or not. Any attorney who is trying a cause would certainly ask him all these questions to elicit the information necessary for him to determine the question whether a juryman was a permanent resident or not. I am not prepared to say that the fact that a man pays tasxes is any evidence that he is a permanent resident. There are dozens and scores of non-residents who pay taxes in each and every county in the State. The fact that a man pays taxes in Sangamon or Maconpin county does not furnish any evidence to my mind that he is a resident of that county. Attorneys will always ask jurors, whether they are permanent residents or not, which is a better way to ascertain the fact than by asking if he pays taxes. TRhis Convention has ignored the property qualification from the very start. There is something distasteful to the people of thlis State against imprisonment Ior debt and against property qualification. We are a progressive people. We are opening up political rights to persons who never had them before. Now, in this noonday of the nineteenth century, shall we take a step backward, and not keep pace with the spirit of the age in which we live? Sir} I would rather stake my trial uIsn the judgment of an honest poor mall, in the State for a period of years, and in the district he is to represent for a certain time, and that he shall have paid a tax. That was to fix his locality-that he should have an interest in his district. It was for no other purpose. Not that he should have property, but to make assurance of his permanence in the locality. If we regard the institution of a jury in the light in which it comes to us through the common law, this principle is well, as fixing the location of the juror. If there were no change of events, perhaps this safeguard would be unnecessary. But we were cited by the gentleman from DeKalb [Mr. Sedgwick], to an instance where a railroad corporation desiring to carry a project to secure a donation of $150,000 from the taxpayers of a town, placed there a thousand men who voted for and carried the measure, without having any interest in the town whatever. If a corporation can do that, and vote away the money of residents, can they not, when having a case in a county, transport jurors there and get possession of the judicial branch of the government, as well as other departments? If this provision is to prevent that, it is well. The gentleman from Brown [Mr. Vandevert] thinks it a hardship, because it makes a property qualification. Yet he says anybody can go up and get his knife taxed, and be a tax-payer. His position, therefore, is not well taken, for if any. body can become a tax-payer, a poor man can do it, and this section will not exclude him. But this goes further. It holds out inducements to men to hold property. We are not here to shape the organic law to encourage idleness. We all have to work. We detest the man who lives at the expense of other people. The whole policy of the law is against idleness, and in favor of each man having something in the government to protect. If the object is to fix locality and responsibility of jurors as against these instances to which we have been cited, it is well. I will not, as a citizen or legislator, stand up here for idleness or drones in this great hive of industry. hNr. VANDEVENTER. Mr. Chairman: Suppose that within the last two years I have pti'd a tax in Missouri. I am summoned as a juror, and the attorneys propound the question to me in the language of the Constitution: "State whether or rot you have paid a property tax within two years nest preceding this time." Can I not answer "Y/es," truthfully, though I might never have paid a tax ill the State of Illinois? M1r. HAINES, of Lake. No, sir; for this has location. Mr. VANDEVENTER. It dees not say anaythinlg about location. MIr. HAINES, of Lake. If I say "~the towrn of Springfield," without fixingg it any further than that, it is intended that town in which the party is at the time; and if a mnan being in the State of Illinois, says "the town of Peoria,"7 he is presumed to speak of that townl of the State in which ha is. Taxis is the construction which the courts give to that class of cases. If a man is called upon to answer whether he has paid a tax, it relates to the tax in the localityr or vicinity in which he is called as a juror. MrI. WENDLING. Admitting there is some force in the argument of the ge tie~man, if it is necessary to establish a prop uSS ()OSTI LITIOAL COYENTIO MoRAY, If he is intelligent, if he is virtuous, if he is competent to decide the matter at issue between the parties, do not say "You must go back now and acquire property before you can serve upon this jury." The juror's duty is to decide matters of fact, according to the evidence, and his intelligence and honesty are the main test, and whether he be worth $1,000 or worth five cents, should have nothing to do in the selection of jurors. If it be in order, I move to strike out the entire section. If not in order, I give notice that I will move to strike out this section when the proper time comes. The CHAIRMAN. The motion is not in order. The motion of the gentleman from White [Mr. McDowell], to strike out the line indicated by him, takes precedence of a motion to strike out the section. Mr. PEIRCE. Mr. Chairman: I see no necessity for a provision of this kind in the organic law. It is purely legislative in its character, legislation too of a very objectionable kind, and I hope the whole section will be stricken out. It seems to me it is a project to establish an invidious distinction between citizens of this State. It is true that gentlemen do not say, in so many words, that they believe a man is not qualified to sit on a jury, who has not given evidence of his ability by the acquisition of a certain amount of property, but that is what they really mean by this language. It is curious to notice the explanation by which they propose to get around that proposition. One gentleman says it is simply a means of determining whether the man is or is not a permanent resident. But the section says further, that a man shall have been two years in the State, and also paid a property tax. I see no reason for doubling the assurance, by providing that a man shall have been two years in-the State. If the words, "and paid a property tax," be only designed to determine whether a man be an actual resident here, why is it also necessary to say besides that, "a resident for two years"? Again, another gentleman proposes to get around this thing by saying, it is not after all a property tax of any kind, when the express language of the clause is that it is a property tax. I seems to me there is no way of escaping the position that the plain, common-sense proposition, if put in plain language, would be this: "We, the Constitutional Convention of Illinois, do not believe a man is qualified to act as a juror, unless he has manifested his talent and ability, by acquiring and hoardiclg up a certain specified sum of money."C Do gentlemen wish to vote for that proposition? If they do, they can properly sustain this section. If they are opposed to that proposition, they will vote to strike it out. Mr. WELLS. I move the committee now rise, report progress, and ask leave to sit again at two o'clock. The motion was not agreed to. eMr. SCHOLFIELD. Mr. Chairman: At the last meeting of the Committee on the J'udiciary, I endeavored to get this section struck out of the report, for the reason that, in'my judgment, it is simply sspecial legislation, and therefore unworthy a place in the fundamental law of the State. The matter included in the CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION ]IONDAYX 1188 entire section ought to be embodied in a section in a statute relating to practice in courts of justice. It was represented to the Judiciary Committee by those who favored the adoption of this section, that in the larger cities of the State, the judicial system was in many instances brought into disgrace by a class of persons getting upon the jury, known as "wharf-rats, " "loafers" or "vagabonds," who were bought up and made to perform a corrupt office in the administration of justice; ard the blow aimed by this section was at that class of persons. I was unable to see then, as I am unable to see now, why that class of persons cannot be reached by a statute. I do not, however, as some gentlemen who have addressed the committee do, regard sitting upon the jury as a right of citizenship. It is a duty the citizen owes to the State-not a right or a privilege, or a presumed benefit to him, but a burden which he owes to the State, like that of paying taxes, for example. 'The law has ever recognized the right of parties, after juries are impannelled, to object, without any reason on earth, to a certain number of individuals whom they do not wish to sit upon the trial of their cases. It makes no difference whether the persons objected to have property or do not have it. But, sir, the whole question relating to the selection and qualification of jurors, in my judgment, ought to be regulated by statute, not by an organic law, and least of all, by an organic law so flimsy as it seems to me this is. Take the phraseology of this section —why, any man who pays a poll tax would be a competent juryman. AnyU man who pays a tax upon a knife or a pistol, or the simplest and most insignificant article of property, would be a competent juryman. I can conceive, sir, that the veriest beggar who ever trod the earth, could bring himself within that provision. There is no limitation as to the amount of the tax or the source from which it is derived. The most trifling as well as the largest sum, levied either upon the beggar's wallet or the millionaire's wealth, will fill the requirements. I confess, sir, that I am unable to see how a stalwart and healthy man, able to walk or even ride to the county seat, could be a citizen of the State two years and yet have nothing upon which to base a tax; and I am free to confess that if so worthless and trifling a creature could be found, he would be very improper material for a juryman; yet I think his exCclusion should not be determined by the Constitution. The Legislature is amply competent to provide such enactments as the welfare of the people, in this respect may require, either fox the protection o~f life, liberty or property. Mr. SNYDER. Mr. Chairmanl: I wish to say a few words in reply to the remarks of the gentleman from Clark [Mr. Scholfield]. Ha says that sitting upon juries is not a right. Why, sir, how a gentleman of his breadth of mind, and liberality of views can make such a remark, I am utterly at a loss to understand. Not a right sir, of a citizen to sit upon a jury? Not a right to see that justice be done, and that society be protected? Not a right e to see that the criminal, the bloody-hand erty qualification, in order to prevent idleness, does it not followthat we should go still further, and establish such a qualification in regard to suffrage, and ordain a constitutional provision requiring a man to have so much property before he can vote? Does not the argument hold as good in one case as in the other? Mr. HAINES, of Lake. Mr. Chairman: The gentleman and myself differ entirely on the proposition. It is not a property qualification in any sense of the word; therefore, there is no necessity of my answering that question. If I understand the explanation of the gentleman from McHenry [Mr. Church], it does not partake in the least of the nature of a property qualification. Mr. SNYDER. What is a man to pay his tax upon? Mr. HAINES, of Lake. Upon his property. Mr. SNYDER. Suppose he has not any. Mr. HAINES, of Lake. I would like to see the man who has not got property, if he has location. Show me the man that is fixed-even the American Indian upon the plains,-who has not got some property. Mr. SNYDER. Mr. Chairman: I can show the gentleman many men-as worthy a class of men as there is in this committee or anywhere else-the journeymen mechanics. I know hundreds of them who live upon their wages, and have no property to pay taxes upon, but are as honest, as worthy, as prudent and as good men in every respect as can be found anywhere. Mr. HAINES, of Lake. l Mr. Chairman: This term "tax" has a very extensive signification. If a man does not remain in a locality over a year, he doe. not ordinarily pay a tax. If he remains in any town of the State of Illinois one year, he will pay a tax of some kind. He has got to pay it: he cannot escape it. Now I lay that down as a fact, and as a matter both of fact and of law. [Here the hammer fell.] Mr.ANDERSON. Mr. Chairman: I hope sir, that this section will not be adopted. I am in favor not onlv of the amendment of the gentleman from White, [Mr. McDowell,] but I am in favor of striking out the entire section. It is a species of legislation that is wrong. We are doing now, sir, what we have been doing ever since we assembled here —legislating for the people of Illinois, instead of framing a great fundamental law for their government. This question, sir, is one that Gan be settled by the Legislature, as it has hereto. fore always been settled. When difficulty arises the Legislature can pass such laws as may be necessary. What is the mission of a juror? It is to try a case-to try it honestly and fairls according to the evidence. What qualification is necessary? Virtule and intelligence, not property. It does not follow, sir, that because a anar has not property, he is not qualified to give a correct decision. The object that the committee are striving to carry out by the passage of this section} I hope, will be defeated, so that when a moan proves himself a worthy and intelligent man, it shall nrot be said that he must have paid a property tax before e can try any case or serV'e on any jury. M-~ 1,1w EAE ADPO)EIG.18 right; but, sir, they do not interfere with the eternal principles of justice as God Almighty himself has established them upon earth. Least of all, should there be any attempt to interfere with them in the only free republic, or the one which claims to be the only free republic, that has ever existed upon this earth. I say it is a matter of right. If it is not, why exclude the convicted felon, the man upon whom is placed the brand of crime, the man who has worn the striped uniform of a State's prison, and the half of whose head is shaven as a mark of dis grace? Why place the honest citizen in the same category with him? It is said, in the administration of criminal law, that it is better that ninety nine guilty men should escape than that one innocent man should suffer; and, I say, in the administration of the great principles of liberty, it is better that ninety-nine unqualified or disreputuable men should succeed in exercising rights than that one worthy, proper, and honor able citizen should be excluded. There can be no question about the matter of right. My friend from Clark [MIr. Scholfield] says there is no man who cannot capacitate himself as a juror under this section, by simply presenting his pocket knife to the assessor, so that he mnmay pay tax upon it; but, sir, will the honest, unobtrusive, hard-working me chanic, the poor miner who delves down in the bowels of the earth, who is so exclu sively occupied with his work and in gaining a subsistence for himself and family, that he has no business in the courts or about them, present his pocket knife to have it taxed, for the purpose of getting on a jury? Mr. HAINES, of Lake. There 5s another class-the bondholders. Mr. SNYDER. The bondholder is as good as any one else, if he behaves him self. I know there are many as worthy men as any in this community, who have bonds by the thousands, and many by the hundreds of thousands of dollars. If a man chooses to invest his property and means in that way, it is his own business, and he has the undisputed right to do it. He may be as honorable and highminded as any man in the community. I am not the man to resort to this low species of demogogism. If a man behaves himself in a proper manner, though he be rich, though no better, he is as good as a poor man. Let there be no distinction in the community, in a trully republican government. I un derstand there is no distinction known between one honest citizen and another in a truly republican government. I say, sir, that the adoption of this clause is a discrimination against the poor, honest man. There are many worthy mechanics whose time is taken up in barely making a living; who have no time to amass property, to pay taxes upon. These men should not be excluded from serving on juries. The poor man has just the same interest in seeing that the laws are administered as the rich man, and we cannot exclude him without' violating justice and liberty of the citizen. He has the right to sit as a juror between his fellow men whether we want him to or not. The CHAIRMAN. The question is upon the amendment offered by the gentleman from White [Mr. McDowell], to Istrike out from the forty-ninth section the words, "or has not paid any proper ty tax within two years next preceding." The amendment was agreed to. Mr. SCHOLFIELD. Mr. Chairman: I move to strike out the entire section. Mr. A.LN.IERSON. Mr. Chairman: That was the motion I desired to make. The CHAIRMAN. The question is upon the motio t he mt othe gentleman from Clark [Mr. Scholfield], to strike out the entire section. The CHAIRMAN. The question hav ing been taken viva voce, the ayes seem to have it. Mr. HAINES, of Cook. Mr. Chair man: I do not believe that the gentle men understand what they are voting upon. The CHAIRMAN. The question is upon striking out the forty-ninth section, as amended. The Clerk read section forty-nine, as follows: S.EC. 49. In all courts of record in this State, it shall be good ground of challenge of may juror that he has not been, for at least two years, a citizen of this State, and when ever any such fact appears, it shall be the duty of the judge to discharge such juror from fur ther service. And in no case shall any juror, for the courts of record in this State, be se lected and summoned by the same offier; but, when talesmen are necessary, the court shall direct in what manner they shall be se lected. Mr. HAINES, of Cook. Mr. Chair man: There is involved in this section another principle besides that of proper ty qualification. One of the most im portant matters to be guarded against is, I think, that the jury shall not be selected and summoned by the same of ficer. Mr. CODY. Mr. Chairman: Will the gentleman yield to a motion to rise? Mr. HAINES, of Cook. Yes, sir; for that purpose. Mr. CODY. Mr. Chairman: I move that the committee do now rise, report progress, and ask leave to sit again this afternoon at two o'clock. A division was ordered. The committee divided, when the motion was agreed to. ADJOURNMENT. Mr. GOODELL. Mr. President: I move that the Convention do now adjourn. The motion was agreed to. So the Convention (at twelve o'clock ~nd fifty-nine minutes) adjourned. ed murderer, receive his just dues at the hands of a jury of his countrymen? Mr. SCHOLFIELD. Will the gentle man allow me to ask him a question? Doesa t he gentleman from St. Clair [Mr. Snyder] say to the c omm ittee that the right to sit on a jury is a right that be longs to citizenship? .air. SNYDER. Yes, sir; in a demo. cratic government,, where the principles of liberty are understood. Mr. SCHOLFIELD. Then I ask him, why a man over sixty years of age, or women, or minors, or persons who have served on a jury in the twelve months, are not competent iurymen? Mr. SNYDER. They have the choice, Sir, because they have reached an age when they become too infirm. It is a matter of choice and privilege, and not a matter of challenge. Mr. SCHOLFIELD. Is it a matter of choice, to minors and women? Mr. SNYDER. Minors have not yet become competent to exercise the fran chise. They have not reached the age of maturity. Mr. HAINES, of Lake. Are not va rious persons exempt under the law in consequence of their profession or occu-t patioD, as a sort of form or privilege? Mr. SNYDER. If they choose, sir. It is a matter of privilege, but they are not excluded. They may not always be pre pared or conveniently situated to serve. Mr. CHURCH. All school officers. Mr. SNYDER. It is a matter of priv ilege. They can sit if they see fit to do se. It is not a cause of challenge. It is not a matter of burden with a good citi zen, who properly understands his rights and his duties under a democratic and free government. Such a citizen, prop erly interested in the community in which he lives, in its welfare and pro tection, and properly interested in the execution of the laws, will avail himself on everv occasion of the privilege of ex ercising his rights; and I defy any gen tleman to controvert this position. Mr. SCHOLFIELD. Is it a right a citizen can exercise independent of the action of others? Mr. SNYDER. Yes, sir. Mr. SCHOLFIELD. Can any man go on a jury unless he is selected by the proper authorities of the county, called there in the regular way, and accepted by the party? Mir. SNYDER. The proper authorities of the county are bound, if they do their duty, to take citizens who are qualified, by succession, and every man's term is bound to come, if the officere will do his duty. Mr. BROMW:ELL. I wish to suggest to the gentlemnal from St. Clair [;~lr. Snyder] wlth his permission,- that it is the right to be eligible which is the right of a citizen. hMr. SNYDER. Eligibility is a matter of natural right, and I say when the principles of liberty come in collision with that right, they denly that to a mall which natural justice gives him. Our laws may be arbitrary, they may be despotic, they may shut out men on account of propertyr qualification — on account of color or sex, if you please, but, sir, that does not contravene the great eternal principles of justice and liberty. I care not for your stawtute~ books, I care not for your lawns. They are, is many instances) as freqdently wrong as 298 MAMCH 14) 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1189 AFTER-YOON SESSI01V.' MONDAY, March 14, 1870. The Conveiation met at two o'clock i-. m., and was called to order by the Presidei3,t. EMPLOYEES OF CONVENTION. Mr. TURNER. Mr."'President: There was a resolution introduced this morning, looking to a reduction of the force that had been employed in this hall. I do not know what effect that will have, or whether it will reduce the force or not; but some of the employees have spoken to me about it, and desired to be put in a position to draw their pay up to the seventeenth'instant. They have asked me to introduce the following resolution. The Secretary read the resolution offered by Mr. Turner, as follows. Resolved, That the President of this Cdhvention be instructed to certify to the nura-, ber of days' service, up to the 17th of March, 1190 COSTITUTIOAL ()OWETIO MONDAY, county or city indebtedness beyond the amount authorized by laws heretofore enacted, and having particular reference to such county or city, or to levy taxes to exceed in the aggregate one and one-half per cent. on the State and county -valuation, exclusive of interest and sinking-fund tax as heretofore authorized, or to make any special assessment where the improvement contemplated shall not have been petitioned for by the owners of a majority in value of the property to be assessed therefor. This article is hereby adopted as a part of the Constitution of this State, without being submitted to be voted upon by the people. I do s Mr. HAYES. Mr. President: My object is to get that before the Cook county delegation. I move that it be so referred. The motion was agreed to. SECRETARIES TO CONVENTION. Mr. SKINNER. Mr. President: I offer the following resolution. The Secretary read the resolution offered by Mr. Skinner, as follows: Resolved, That the secretaries remain for one week during the recess, to perfect the journal and superintend the printing of reports of Committee of the Whole, etc. eMr. ROSS. Mr. President: I think that this resolution might as well go to the Committee on Public Accounts and Expenditures, that they may determine whether it is necessary to have all the secretaries remain, or only a part of them. Therefore, I move that it be referred to the Committee on Accounts and Expenditures. The motion was agreed to. OFFICIAL STENOGRAPHIERS. aMr. ANDERSON offered the following resolution, which was read by the Secretary, and referred to the Committee on Accounts and Expenditures: Resolved, That the Committee on Accounts and Expenditures be instructed to inquire into the expendiency of discharging the, o f fi cial reporters, and prohibiting the further publication of the debates of this Convention. inclusive, of the firemen and mail carrier of the Convention, and that the Auditor be instructed to draw his warrant on the treasury for the balance due them up to that date. The PRESIDENT. The question -is upon the adoption of the resolution. The resolution was agreed to. Mr. TURNER. Mr. President: From thenu of h o per g entl eme n tion have heard spek two hundred thomeusand, neither the coudanger we mav be left without a quorum very soon, and I therefore propose to offer the following resolution, stating the reason why I do so. When we go home we shall have to leave our papers, and a good deal of our stationery, etc., in our drawers. This carpet ought to be taken up and cleaned. The filthy condition of this hall renders it very unhealthy and uncomfortable. I therefore offer the resolution. The Secretary read the resolution offered by M~r. Turner, as follows: Resolved, That during the -period of adjournment of this Convention, this hall and the property therein be left in the charge and care of the door-keeper and policemen. Mr. SKINNER. Mr. President: I would ask the gentleman to accept an amendment, to the effect that the secretaries be requested to remain a certain number of days-I will not say how many-for the purpose of perfecting their journals, and to procure the printing of the reports of the Committee of the Whole, so that they may be distributed to the people during recess. Mr. TURNER. Mr. President: I will accept that if put in shape to be accepted. Mr. BROWNING. Mr. President: I should like to hear that resolution read again. The PRESIDENT. The gentleman from Adams [ Mr. Skinner] will reduce his amendment to writing. The Secretary will read the resolution again. AThe Secretary read the resolution offered by Mr. Turner, as follows: Resolved,'that during the period of adjournzment of this Convention, this hall and the ?roperty therein be left in the charge and care of the doorkeeper and policemen. Mr. BROWNING. Mr. President: I .suggest to add that these officers be di.rected to have the carpet taken up and 'the hall cleaned. M.TRNER. Mr. President: I will tiontoi. and adopt them for that purpose, with out waiting for the action of the committee. After the recess, when the report ofe that com mitte e t o mes inha the subjoect of will be fully considered in Convention a Mr. ROSS. Mr. Chairman: I think .that the select committee can report tomorrow morning. They would have had a meeting Saturday eveniing, but some mnemlbers were absent, and the meeting of the committee was postponed until tonight. I think it would be preferable to have that report come in and act upon it before we adjourn, if possible. Mr. SKINNER. Mr. Chairman: I would say to the committee, that from present appearances, it will be difficult to do anything to-morrow. It looks that way. No harm can arise by present action upon the two sections, that the j udiciarv article may go to the public with consecutive sections, so that they can see what it is as a whole, as proposed. Then the report of the special committee will probably present to the Convention two propositions, when the Convention can consider the whole matter and make such changes as may bee deemed advisable. The point is;, that the report should go out as a complete report, it being understood that many things are pro forma. Mr. CARY. Ml~r. Chairman: There are some things that are mere matters of form that I never care about objecting to. But, sir, this is mwore than form, and I object to giving even a pro forma sanction to it. Mr. SKINNER. Has not the gentleman asked me to adopt things pro formnct that I would not vote for? Did he not do that this morning? Mr. CARY. No, sir. I said in order to save any further debate I would assent to it. It was not my desire to ad,opt section thirty-niine, esven pro~ formsa, at this time, but in order to satisfy some gentlemen who were desirous that it should be so adopted, I said, as it applied: only to Cook county, I would assent to it provi. ded all amendments were withdrawn, if the resolution limiting its operation to Cook were retained, which was done. But, sir, there is mlore in this, and I am unwilling to even seem to assent to a district of only a little mnore than ninety thousand voters having the same voice in JUDICIAL DEIPARTMENT. Mr. SKINNER. Mr. President: I move that the Convention now resolve itself into Committee of the Whole on the ju- edm r, n the diciary article and unfinished business. The motion w as agreed to. So the Convention, as in Committee ofinedon the Whole (Mr. Hayes in the chair), resumed the consideration of the report ofom ta the Committee on Judiciary. The CHAIRMAN. The question is ont the motion of the gentleman from Jefferm yson [Mr. Anderson], to strike out sectionte forty-nine r as a olended. r, to The Clerk read section forty-nine, as amended, as follows: SEc. 49. In all courts of record in this State it shall be a good ground of challenge of any juror that he has not been, for at least two years, a citizen of this State; and whenever any such fact appears, it shall be the duty of the judge to discharge such juror from further service. And in no case shall any juror, for the courts of record in this State, be selected and summoned by the same officer; but, when talesmen are necessary, the court shall direct in what manner they shall be selected. Mr. SKINNER. Mr. Chairman: Sections four and five, which refer to the number of judges of the supreme court, and the judicial divisions of the State, were passed over to await a report from a special committee appointed on that subject. There is no report from that committee. In order that the article on the j udiciary may, during the recess, go out printed in connected form, as a complete paper, I move that we recur to those sections CONSTITUTIONAL CON'VENTION AIONDAY, 1190 MACoH 14, 1870 DEBATES A~D PRO()EEDJGS. 1191 Mr. CARY. Then I am still more op posed to the motion. Mr. HAINES, of Cook. Does that carry the amendment we have made to the article? The CHAIRMAN. It carries nothing but the article in its original form. If the committee pass the order to report the article back without recommenda tion, then it is the article in its original form. If they pass the order to report back the article with the amendments, it is a different question. The amendments would then be a part of the report of the Committee of the Whole. Mr. HAINES, of Cook. Mr. Chair man: I understand that that was what the gentleman from Rock Island [Mr. Truesdale] intended to do. Mr. BROWNING. Mr. Chairman: I had rather the motion would not prevail, yet, I do not feel a great deal of concern about it. If it does prevail, the report will carry back to the Convention the original sections relating to the supreme court, and they will be published as a part of the report after we have adjourn ed. The motion, as I understand, is to rise and report the judiciary article with the amendments back to the Convention, without recommendation. The object of that is to have it printed with its amend ments, as the action of the Convention, so far as action has proceeded. Now, the sections relating to the su preme court have neither been striken out nor amended. They stand precisely as they were, and I am willing that they shall go to the country asthey are. Still, as it is very manifest that there is a por tion of the Convention dissatisfied with them in their present shape, and that that dissatisfaction gave rise to a select com mittee to whom the questions connected with them have been referred, I would prefer that we should receive that report, and act upon it before the article is re ported to the Convention, so that the sense of the committee and the Conven tion, as between the sections as they now stand, and what may be proposed by the select commnittee, may go to the countrv with the rest of the article. When the report of the select committee comes, I do not suppose that there will be a great deal of debate on the subject. I have no doubt the members of the committec have made up their minds as to whether they will sustain the original sections or substitute something else for them. It would subject the Convention to just and very severe animadversion, if it should adjourn without presenting anything in the judiciary article touching the most important branch of our judicial system. If we should adjourn, leaving the article blank as to the supreme court, it would properly subject us to very severe criticism. I am willing that the article should go as it is in reference to the supreme court. Bnt if it is not the wish of the Convenvention that it shall do so, then we had better wait until we get the article back from the select committee, which I think Mwill be this afternoon or to-morrow morning. Mr. CARY. Mr. Chairman: If the resolution of the gentleman from Rock Island [Mr. Truesdale] is to be voted upon, I wish to ofer an amendment, which is, to add these words, "as far as it has been considered"; leaving out such sections as have not been acted on by the C omm ittee of t he Wh ole. I do not wish to report back anything that we have agreed to pass over. But, sir, it has been suggested to me, and I think it is probably a better way to dispose of this question, that the com mittee ask leave to sit to-morrow morning to take into consideration the report of the special Committee on Judicial Divi sions, as the gentleman from Adams [Mr. Browning] suggests that they will be ready to report at that time, and then we can report back to the Convention a com pleted article. I shall object to reporting, as the sense of the Committee of the Whole, articles which we have, by a large majority, deci ded to pass over as not being the sense of the Committee of the Whole on this mat ter of judicial divisions, even though I subject myself to the criticism of the gentleman from Adams [Mr. Skinner]. Mr. TRUESDALE. Mr. Chairman: I wish to explain to tlhe gentleman from JoDaviess [Mr. Cary.] At the time I made the motion I supposed that any further consideration of this report of the Judiciary Committee, in Committee of the Whole, would be postponed until af ter the recess. That is why I made the motion. If it is the understanding that this select committee on the supreme court divisions of the State, is to report to-mor row morning, so that we can go on in Committee of the Whole, and finish up the consideration of this report, I would prefer that course myself, and with that understanding I will withdraw my mo tion. Mr. CARY. Then, if that is the sense of the committee, I am satisfied, and will not offer my amendment. The CHAIR5MAN. The question is now oa the motion to strike out section forty-nine. The motion was agreed to. The CHAIRMAN. There is an addi tilonal section proposed by the gentleman from Adams [Mr. Browning]. ELECTION OF JUDICIAL OFFICERS. The Clerk read the section proposed by Mr. Browning, as follows: In the election of all judicial officers, when ever more than one is to be elected by the same constituency, for the same office and term of service, every elector shall have as many votes as there are officers so to be elected, and may distribute his votes equally or unequally, in whole votes or in fractions, among the candidates, or any number of them, or concentrate them all upon one, as he sees/fit, and the candidates receiving the highest number of votes shall be declared elected. M~r. ROSS. As it does not appear that that article is applicable to any portion of the State, except Cook county, I would inquire of the gentleman if it would not answer his purpose to make it so apply specifically? If it is in accordance with the views of the Co-ok county delegation, and they havre no objection to it, I believe I would be willing to let that provision go in as applying to the only part of Illinois thatit would be applicable to, without incorporating it as a general proposition in the Constitution. Mr. BROWNING. Mr. Chairman: I have no authority to speak for the gentlemen of Cook county. I do not know whether the section would be acceptable to them, even if operating over the entire EState, if we should adopt it as a parl of MARCaH 14, 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 119!. striking out the last section, and it was decided in the affirmative. The CHAIRMAN. No; it was not so decided. There was another count called for. Mr. TRUESDALE. I insist upon my motion, Mr. Chairman. Mr. HAINES, of Cook. Mr, Chair man: I would like to know what would be the effect of the motion, if carried? The CHAIRiVI kN. The committee would immediately rise, and report the article to the Convention, without any recommendation. Mr. SKINNER. Mr. Chairman: We are trying with proper courtesy, to get along the best we can. Every gentleman of the committee knows that when the recess is entered upon, the reports from the standing committees, acted upon in Committee of the Whole, should go before the people in printed form that they may see what is proposed to be done. Many davs have been spent upon the judiciary article. Almost everything has been thorough ly investigated and accepted-the pro visions with reference to Cook county, being of course, excepted. The only ob jections that have been raised are on the question arising upon the boundaries of the judicial divisions for the election of judges and the question of dividing the State into seven judicial divisions, for the election of one judge in each. That is a simple proposition that may be incorpo rated in one form or the other, or not at all. Now, if we simply consent to report this article as it stands, with the reserva tion we all have, and express in debate we present to the people, in connected form, for their consideration during the recess, what is proposed to be done by the Con vention. Nobody is estopped and nobody should feel estopped when the Convention reassembles. I submit, by doing so, we could do no harm and would accomplish a great deal of go)od. My friend from Jo Daviess [Mr. Cary] stops suddenly. He has acquiesced in what has been done of the same character, aided in doing it, but he now comes to a point where he stops suddenlybalks. He is a balky horse, [Laughter.] there is is no doubt about that; but I submit that we should not let the load tip over, and go down the precipice, because he balks. Mr. CARY. If it is a "balky" business, i shall still continue to be balky, for I never shall consent to hlave these two sections go before the people of this State with anything like an inldorsement ferom this Convention, if I can prevent it. The CHAIRMAN. Will the gentleman suspend while the Chair states the effect of the pending propositions The gentleman from Rock Island [M~r. Truesdale] moves to report the'article back without recommendation. That motion} if adopted, would cut off all amendments, and require the article to be reported in regular form. Mr. CARY. That, of course, would leave out the article we passed without >consideration. The CHAIRMZAN. The Chair thinks they would all be reported to the Cons vention under this motion. Mr. GARY. Whether we have passed upon them or not? The CHAIRMAN. Yes, sir. - - -—.. _ e on the Constitution, but after that, the tt effect would be to leave the balance of power precisely as it is supposed to stand n now. The effect would be, as we now une derstand the relative strength of the - parties, to give the republicans four and e the democrats three members on the bench - of the supreme court. d But instead of bringing the four re;- publican members from the northern part e of the State, putting them upon the bench 1- by themselves, and binding them toi- gether as a party, with the three demot- crats from the other part of the State, as bound together al.so, on the bench, as a it party, we would bring two republicans L- and one democrat from the north, and e one republican and one democrat from e each of the other districts, without dis r turbing or disrupting, in any way, the y relative power and influence of the parn ties. We get the benefit of having them n intermingled with common ties and come mon interests. Combining republican e and democrat together, with the social inr, fluences growing out of locality and fors met association, softening and mellowing - their feelings, we make a tribunal alto gether better qualified to render fair and w impartial decisions on the questions comiing before them, than it can be under the e present system. 1 And now, sir, if we adhere to the three grand divisions, this will at once be ape plicable to them. But suppose we do - not? There are still other elections to which it would apply even now. There - are many places, particularly in our towns - where we elect a plurality of justices of - the peace at the same time. e It is a great misfortune, Mr. Chairman, - to a State, for all its supreme judges to e be of one party, and it is a great misfor, tune to any town or locality for all of its e justices of the peace to be of one political - party; and yet, with our present system, r whenever, in one locality four or five offi, cers of the same class are chosen,at the same t time, all are invariably elected by one party, or the other; and the party chanc ing to be in the minority, if it be but a minority of one, is withouta judicial offi cer to whom they can look with confi - dence in his intelligence and impartiality -a confidence so desirable to have extend ed to every judicial officer. I would not desire, however intense a t party man I might be, that all the mem- bers of the supreme court should be taken dfrom my own party alone. I should feel l that it would be better for my own inter; est as a citizen, as well as for the inter- ests of the entire State that the bench I should be composed of men of both parJ ti e s. It is infinitely better for the citit zens that officers of every kind should be a divided in the proportion in which the i parties are divided in popular strength; and by this section the judges would al ways be so distributed. t As, Mr. Chairman, judicial elections . are rare and exceptional at any rate, and o as I do not hesitate to believe that it would be acceptable to the people, if we should make the experiments of this application of the free cumulative vote in' regard to judicial officers, I trust this additional section will not be rejected without due consideration. Mr. HAINES, of Cook. Mr. Chairman: If we continue the districts as in this article, as the parties are now dividecd, would not the democratic party elect all four judges in the southern districts t CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION 1192 MONDAY, the Constitution. It perhaps would b to some of them; whether to all I do no know. But it is, in *my estimation, a provisio of so much value as to be worthy of th very serious consideration of the co mittee. It is, in connection with th effort we have made to secure a re resentation of fractions in counties an districts -the only progress we are ma 'ing, or proposing to make, in the scienc of government. There is no other ad vance that we propose to make in polit cal science, except that which is connect ed with what is familiarly known a I'minority representation," and the jus representation of fractions. The opera tion of the one is to secure us against th evils of what is better expressed by th word "gerrymandering," than any othe single word I can use, and to effectuall protect us against an unfair and partisa distracting of the State. The operatio of the other will secure us against th unfair and uniust -Dreponderance of on political part;of te State over another and will insure to all political partie their just power and influence in all de partments of the government. Now, if this free or cumulative syste of voting be adopted, it does not an cannot change the political results in th State at all. The party in power wil retain that power just as completely an effectually under the operation of the fre vote as it will under the present system but it will have one beneficial result, t which I invite the respectful considers tion of the committee Under our pres ent system of voting, with our under standing of the relative strength of th politicl parties in this State, the repubil can party would have the preponderanc in the General Assembly. So it would under the free system of voting, have tli same proportional strength and prepon derance; but there would be this ve great difference, which, in my judgment, is an incalculable advantage. While i would not change the relative strengt of,,the parties in the General Assembly, i would prevent the bringing of all of on -oartv from one section of -the State, an lll,;f the other party from the other section of the State, and would bring the intermixed from all sections. They would not come all republicans from the north There are now two judges in the central, and two in the southern district. Assume, that the democrats have the majority in those two districts. Two judges are to be elected in each, and each party beidg allowed to cumulate their votes, both wirt be democratic. In the u,orthern district there will be one democrat. Then there will be five democrats, and two republicans. If we are to have minority representatioin, let us make the State one district. If the districts are made smaller, I shall be opposed to adopting the minority system. -Ur. BROWNING. Mr. Chairman: This, if we adopt it, would have no ao placation at the election for judges the supreme court, next fall. They would be elected without the application of this provision. I assume, as beyond controversy, that before this Convention ad' the grand divisions for the election of supremejudgeswillbe readjusted,soasto equalize them. If we retain the three grand divisions, puttino, three-sevenths of the entire population C, in the northern district, t-,vo-sevenths in the central, and two-sevenths. in the southern, it will, ac.' cording to my estimate, make republican districts of the northern and central, and a democratic district of the southern. The effect of the application of this principle would be to give the republicans two judges in the rorthern district, and the democrats one; and each party one judge in the other two. Mr. HAINES, of Cook. But how do you arrange that where there are but two candidates 2 Mr. BROWNING. Mr. Chairman: Where there are but two candidates, and the minority party are in excess of onethird of the whole strength thev can elect one: if the majority ndert;ke to elect both, and have not more than twothirds, they will fail. Say the whole vote is 1,200; two-thirds would be 800. If they undertake to elect both with less than two-thirds of the entire strength, they cannot give either of their candidates as much as 800 votes, because they have only a single vote to each candidate. If the minority party has over 400, it can give its candidate more than 800, by concentrating its vote upon him; so that where there ~~~~~AR~~~~~~~~~~~fl 14, 1870. DEBATES API) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~flOOEEI)IXGS. 1193~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ NowV, supposing as a matter of fact, the republican party have a majority of one thousand in tbe district, but Mr C, one of the republican candidates, not knowing, as a matter of fact, which party is in the ascendency, determines to make his elec tion sure by concentrating upon himself as many votes as he can get, without reference to the success of his colleague, and by undue iifluence induces a large nltumber of his republican friends to cast their votes for him, and thereby gets fif teen hundred majority over his colleague. No w, supposing that the democrats should cast their votes solid for their two respective candidates, giving one-and one half votes to one man, and one-and ()one-half votes to the other man. In such an evenit, would it not be true that the democrats would elect both of their men, and the republicans would elect only one -thus the minority defeating the majori ty, even when the majority is casting their full vote for their own candidates-for the imtple reason that more than a thousand honest votes were thrown away? mu,h a result call never happen on our present single ballot plan. What can be gained by putti,g three ballots in one man's hatid but to enable the minorities to defeat tile majorities? Mr. BROWNING It is possible such a thing might happen. We cannot make any human institution work with exact justice aid perfect equality and accuracy iii all thii,gs. if the people were foolish enough to vote that way, and it did hap peni, thetjy would get just what they de. served; but the party having a majority, if it is ('Inly a maj,rity of ten, there be irhg three caididates to be elected, can always elect two of them, by acting fairly and honestly. Mr BENJAMIN. Mr. Chairman: 1 do nlot uiderstand that the pr(oposition wouldI have aliy application to tile elee S tion of judgies of the supreme court, un li ess the CoIi vention divided the State into three, instead of seven judicial dls tricts, or, unless the judges sihould be ellep ted aon a genieral tick,it. If the Statt ishould be divided into three districts, 1 eteu, at the coning election there would be only once supreme judge to be elected from the southern division, and but one from the middle division. Of course, this provision would have no application to the election of either of thi-Sc two judges, but inasmuch as twoi ljudges woul d be elected from the northern divisiom, it would hOVE application t(} the election in that division, and there secure the election of judges of different politics. We can readily see how, und, r the operation of this provision, four of these judges would be of one political party, when a large majority of the voters of the State belong to another political party. The CHAIRMAN. The question is upon the ad((ption of the additional se e tion offered by the gentleman from Ad ams [Mr. Browning] The Clerk read the section offered by Mr. Browning, as follows: In the election of all judicial officers, whenever more than one is to be elected by the same constituency for the same office and term of service, every elector shall have as many votes as there are officers so to be elected, and may distribute his votes equally or unequally, in whole votes or in fractions, eamong the candidates, or any number of them; or concentrate them all upon one, as he sees fit, and the candidates receiving the highest number of vot.hr r shall be declared elected. Mr. HAINES, of Cook. Mr. Chair. man: Wae are proposing to apply here a principle that does no t exist, so far as I know, anywhere within the bounds of the United States. It is a new principle in the political history of our State, anid of the country, notwithstanding which it is now proposed to apply it to that branch of the government which is the most sensitive of any. It seems to me, inasmuch as from the beginning of the government down to the present day, we have had a majority or plurality practice existing in our elec tif-ins, and the people know of that or 1y, that if we are to make this great and rad ical change, especially iD this branch oif our government, it should be submitted to the people in a separate proposition. How do we know that they are pre pared to accept this great change, even if it is so desirable? What is the diffi culty attending the submission of this to the people by a separate vote? If they like it they will accept it; if not, they will reject it. But my judgment does not approve putting it in the Coinstitu tion to be voted upon at the same time that the other parts of that instrument are loted upon. It may be so obnoXioUs that it will have a decisive effect as to the adoption or rejection of the entire C(onstitutioi,. The CHAIRMAN. The question is upon the ad,ption- of the additional sec tion proposed by the gentleman from Adams [Mr Browniijg]. The section was loot agreed to. APPOINTING OF JUDGES. Mr. ANTHONY. Mr. Chairman: I will offer the fol lowing additional section, which I will read: At the general election in 1873 there shall be submitted to the qualified electors of' this State, this question: "Stha ll judges of courts of record be appointed?" and if there be a ma iority of votes cast In the affirmative, then, as the terms of office of judges expire, they shall be appointed by, the Governor, by and with the advice and consent of the senate. I submnit this to the co,mmittee f(or the purpo,se (,f hlaving it repo,rted backc to the Convention, so thjat it may go before the people of th is State. I am satisfied that there is considerable feeing existijg in our State in favor of the app,,intment of ju(ges, and it seem, to me that it is fair that the questionR sho}uld be submitted to~ the people to be decided by direct voJte. The sane o Curse was take~~ in New Yo}rk in the recent IOonstitutim1|ai Conl:veuti~>r in submittin,g the Constitution of the State to the people; and the section there proposed was adopted by the people in connection wi th the judiciary article which was the only article of that Constitution that was adopted. I will therefore ask fo,r the adoption of this to be reported back to the Convention in the samle manner as the other section:s, that it may be printed and-go before the people of the State that we may see what their comments and opinions upon it may be. -The CHAIRMANg. The question is or the adoption of the amendment or additional section proposed by the gentleman from Cook [Mr. Anthony]. Trhe section was not agreed to. The CHAIRMAN. The commi;ttee have now gene through with the article, and with all the additional sections pro ing as to seek with only two-thirds of the strength to monopolize all the candidates, they might lose two, and it would be a just puni,shiment upon them. But wher e they act fairly and are willitg to divide in just prl,p)rtion w ith their p, litical op poenets, they can always elect two out of th ree, assuming that their strength is a little in exce ss of a majority. It acts with perfect fairness, and with perfect uniformity, giving no political advantages to anybody, but securing the p olitical rights of all, and the jus t pro) p,)rtion of strength to all parties which they ought at all times to have. Every party has a right to such a representation in the h-gislative and judicial deoartments of the government, as bears a just propor tion to its strength. That is the fair, just, safe and right thing to do, and no party can secure an advantage over auother under the op ration of this s ection, if adopte(.1. There is one other remark, Mr. Chair mani, that I will make. If we intend to make political reforms at anly time, we must make up our minds to accept them with their consequences when adopted; aid if we will never make a political re form until the time co,mes when we can see that we will secure some present po litical advantage to ourselves by that re form, we will Lever make a refi)rm at all. If we could secure a p,,litical advantage beyo,d our political strei:gth, by the ad)pti,n of a new measure, it would not be a reform but would leave us just where we were. Mr. TRUESDALE Mr. Chairman: Will the gentleman allow me to make an inquiry (,f him s Mr. BROWNING. Yes, sir. Mr. TRUESDALE. Would it be com petent, witllout inserting any provision ill the Constitution, for the General Asserai bly to provide by general law for the ad(opt.ion -)f this system of v>tinlg? Mr. BROWNING. I this k, Mr. Chair iuat,, it wo,uld be entirely within legisla tive competence; but I think:t is do,ubt ful whether the Legislature would adopt it-permeated, as it is, with all the infla ences which prevail in such a body, and with the greater partisan excitement that we may reasonably expect will obtain in a legislative body over atid above what has manifested itself here; fO,r happily, hlr. ("hairman, I think we have been more entirely f'ese and exempt from partisan infuehce-s in this Conve~ntioll-card I rejoice to be-able to say it —than anly po~liticat beady, composed of both povlitical pertics, thtat has, at anyX~ time within mly knowledge and recollection assembled. I think it} as I have said, doubtfull whether the Le gislaturfe would adopt it, although it wuld be entirely competent for it to do so. Mr. WAIT. Will the gentleman allow me to ask hima a question?t Mr. BRO WNING#. With great pleasure. Mr. WAIT. In reference to the proupositionl under discussion, if the State sho,uld be divided intot districts of three judicial circumts, in each of such districts there w,uld be three j udges to be elected. Now, suppose one or more of such districts sho,uld be tolerably evenly divided in po}litics, each party claiminig a majority. The result would be that the two parties would each put in nomination two gen. tlemen fair the officee of judge in that dis-4 t~rict? making four men in the field. t g99 .MARO.A 14, 1870. DEBATES AND PROOFEDINGS. 1193 1194 CONSTITUTIO NAt GONVENTION MoRAY, has well said that it has gone to such extremity that men have come to regard courts of law, not as friends, but as e nemies. The courts which we establish are kept up by taxes upon the people; and yet, when a remedy is sought, men, rather than venture within the precincts of one ,(f our courts, shrink from them as they would from a deadly enemy; whereas, upon the other hand, if our courts were what they should be, they would be re garded as friends and not as enemies. I introduce this resolution in order to meet that defect, so that every man, when he enters into our courts to obtain remedy up,on a just cause of action, may reccive from the court that justice which the nature of his case demands. I give notice, that if the resolution fails here, I will renew it in Convention, and will then submit some further remarks upon it Mr. TINCHER. Mr. Chairman: I am glad to see one of the attorneys of this committee ready to go) into a reform in the judiciary. He certainly deserves great credit f,,r havinig initiated a move in that direction. I h(,pe the honorable gentle man from Shelby [Mr. Wendling] will not get discouraged in meeting the issue boldly. I want to come to the evil by cutting it out by the, root, and giving us a system of practice in this State where people may find justice, and that speedily and cheaply. I shall certainly vote for the resolution, but I shall not be satisfied with even that. I have prepared, and I shall at the proper time introduce, a resolution or amendment that will cover this miserable evil. Not withstanding I shall now vote for this resolution, I shall, at the proper time, ii troduce my own amendment. At that time Ishall ask an opportunity t(o give my reasons why I am in favor of this law re-form. There is not a greater evil existing to day in the State of Illinois than that of common law-the technical practice of the court. And I simply rise now to con gratulate the gentleman from Shelby , [Mr. Wendling], that he has broken )loose from the iron rule which binds down young men totheold practice. The darts will fly at him, ["'ready for them"], but I believe he is "ready for them." Mr. ANDERSON. Mr. Chairman: I desire to indorse everything said by my honorable friend from Vermilion, and to indorse the course of my distin guished young friend from Shelby [Mr. Wendling]. It is a niove in the right direction. It is the first time, in my opinion, that the interests f the people have been advo cated, the first time that the farmer's and the laborer's interests-which I feel a deli cacy in mentioning, for fear of insulting the legal profession. [Laughter.] Sir, we demand simplicity in our laws and government, in everything, and I callU upon gentlemen who have taken up so much time in discussing subjects of no general importance, to give this proposi tion a calm consideration, and investigate it as it deserves. And I am glad to see the movement made, and to hear the gentleman from Shelby [Mr. Wendling] state that if it fails here in committee, it will be renewed in Convention. I wish to hear now from my distin guished friend from Woodford [Mr. Peayne].a Mr. OBAYNE. Mr. Chairman: The gentleman from Woodford is not very well to day, but rises to congratulate his young friend from Shelby [Mr. Wendlii,g]. I regard him as the risiig man of Southern Illinois. I am satisfied that if this section can be carried he will be regarded as the rising man of the State. I am not, as I said, very well, but I heartily indorse, also, all that has been said by the several gentlemen upon the subject. Mr. GOODELL. Mr. Chairman: I want to say that I approve of this pri,poSition introduced by the gentleman fromn Shelby [Mr. Wendling] I ki,ow there will be nothing done by the Coive,tion that will give the people more relief than this proposition of reform in the practice (of oar courts. Our courts cf justice have tbecome in their ma,ag ement courts of injustice, and, as they are conducted to-day, a mockery and a farce. Mr. VANDEVENTER. Mr. Chairman: I would like to have my district exempted from the it,fluet,ce and operation of the system of jurisprudence sought to be engrafted on our Constitution by gentlt:,meu, headed by the gentleman fr,,m Shelby [Mr. WendilDg]. If they will leave my district out, I have no objection. If courts have become a mockery in all other parts of the State, they have,ot in my part of the c,ountry. Sir, in my judgment, there is nothing so well calculated to secure speedy, ample and exact justice as the present sys. tem of common law pleading and prac. tice. I think that if the gentlemen could see the system carried into operation as brk ught forward here, it would be only about three years before they would pray for the hills and mountains to fall upon them and hide them from the coifu0ion that must inevitably arise. Everybody would be assumiug to be a qualifiedi lawyer; all kinds of people, igaorant and other wise, would be in the coui-ts-a pettyfog ging crowd from every other business and proifssion. It would result in inextrica ble confusion. I am well satisfied with the present sys tem. I believe it will endure while the people desire their rights to be ~ elI and properly guarded. I feel justified in asserting that the oar of that State that practices under the old common law system, is infinitely superior to any practicing ui(Ler a code. I am surprised that attorneys who pride themselves upon their professional reputation, will stand here al:d attempt to inaugurate such a system as the gentleman from Shelby [Mir. WenAd1ing] has ad vocated I cannot believe that he means what he says. I think he is too clear headed, too good a lawyer ever to inldorse heartily and honestly the remarks he has mhade to-day in regard to the judiciary. I can excuse these bankers and farmers. I have no doubt they believe the practice of law could be made so simple that a blind man coulld see it all. But, when they shall be initiated into the common law jurisprudence, which must ever re mnain the bulwork of our liberties, they will change their minds. I have no pa tience with such effo~rts to so radically subvert and change our systen of juris. prudence. Mr. WENDLING. Mr..*Chairmnan: I desire to correct the msisapprehension in the mind of my friend from Brown [Mr. ~andeventer], and to assure him that I am certainly in earnest in proposing this posed, with the exception of two s ections, awaitii,g, under the order of the Conventio~n, the report of the Committee on Apportionment. The two sections relate to the supreme court. Mr. TRUESDALE. Mr. Chairman: I move that the committee rise, r, port progress, and ask leave to si again. DEFECTS IN THE PROCESS AND PLEADINGS Mr. WENDLING. Mr. Chairman: I have au additional section, which I wish to propose. I will read it myself. 1 propose it as section forty nine: All defects in the process and pleadings in any suit at law or equity may be corrected and trial be had, the same as if no such defects bad existed: Proided, however, That if, after such correction, the opposite party is thereby unable to pDroceed to trial, a continuance may be granted. I apprehend the first objection that will be urged against the section, on the part ofth(,se who differ from me as to the propriety of incorporating such a measure in our organic law, will be the fact that it is a matter entirely within the province of the Legislature; that it is a question which the Legislature can control and fully regulate with much more propriety than can a Constitutional Convention. That, sir, in one particular, is very true. It is a matter entirely within the province of the Legislature to regulate; but the reason which induces me to' offer it here, is the fact that it is a matter of so much importance, that it is a measure that pr,op)ses a remedy for an evil so great, aLt4 which has existed for such a great length of time, that I think, with all due deference to those who differ from me, that it should be incorporated in the organic law of our State. In introducing that proposition, I do not wish the resolution to be interpreted as bearing towards what is commonly known as, or commonly termed, -code" practice. I am not, sir, in favor of code practice; and while the gentleman sitting immediately at my right [Mr. Tincher], who indorses and favors that proposition, may go fur ther than myself, yet, sir, I desire to say it is my earnest desire to retain the frame work, so to speak, of the common law system of practice, while yet incorporat ilig in our organic law such a liberal pro vision for amendment as will secure to every citizen of our State a speedy, prompt and cheap remedy in our courts of jus tie. Now, sir, while I do not expect this mo tion will prevail here, while I know the sentiments upon the part of a great hum ber of the older lawyers is so decidedly against it, that there is no hope of its success, vet it is designJed to, and it un doubtedly does meet one of the greatest evils that exists in the State of Illinois to day. Every gentleman upon this floor, vhe~thcr a professional ma,n or not, knows that one half of the delay, one- half the expense, one-half of the vexation, con nected with litigation} arises froms tech nicalities in our courts of record. Every gentleman upon this flavor, whether he be a practiciog attorney or not, knows that one half of the time, one half of the ex pense, connuected with the delays of wit nesses, onse-half the expense connected with keeping our courts of record in ses and technlicailities incidtbt to the old common l aw practice. Herbert Spencer I 1194: CONS'I'ITUTIONAL CONVENTION MOlliDAY, AROH 14, 18'7O. DEBATES AD PROCEEDINGS. 1195 measure. I have not offered it f()r "bun- It was, gentlemen, nuthing more nor less- progress, and ask leave to sit again, to It was, gentlemen, nothing more nor less and I say it as a lawyer, reiterating all I said a moment ago in rt-gard to my pride in the profession to which I belong, than a systemn of protective tariff The system of learning which was taught two or three centuries ago, was cloaked under learned namrnes, in Latin phrases, under ahigh-sounding titles. The monks who lived in the monasteries embodied all the theology, all the science, all the learning that was known then iii the civilized world, and in order to prevent the com niior people fr(,m kiiowi[,g it. it was in vested with these high sounding titles, and thes-e learned phrases; it was sir, a phase of protect.ve tariff, and, sir, we have it to-day ill another foirm. The va rious attempts to obtain justice in our courts, the attemots to obtain remedies, to o(btain judgmeint in the variious pro cesses and means in the various stages of suits, are all invested with this same pro tective spirit that characterized the mid dle ages. Sir, it is unworthy of the spirit of the age in which we live. Pennsylvania, Ins driana, Ohio, New Yor-k-all the States east of us have taken a great stride in ad vance of that system which I call the common law protective system of the Middle Ages lNow, sir, it becomes Illin (jis, as one of the giant States of the West, a State that is steppinig fo)rward rapidly in the march of civilization and progress, to come up to Ohio, New York, and these other States, and guarantee to the people easier, simpler and more rapid modes (,f obtaining justice than they have under the old common law system to which we are chained down. I stated a moment ago, sir, that I was opposed to a code, but was in favor of a more liberal statute of amendments I m ade that statement, sir, for the simple reason that I have not seen any code yet, and I have given the subject some care ful examination this winter, that entirely meets my views. I would prefer to re tain the common la - system form, and yet this liberal amendment which I pro po se would cover or remedy the defects or troubles which might arise under the system of which I now complain. As far as my esteemed and distinguished friend from Vermilion [Mr. Triucher] is concerned, with regard to my "taking the whole do~se," if he can find that dose in such a form as will entirely meet my approbation, I will take it with a great deal of pleasure. I am not prepared to say that I disagree with his plan, fio r I do nut know what his plan is. If it is submitted I may be able to indorse it I thpe I may, and I assure him I will if it meets the end I seek to effect by offering this resolution. The question being upon the adoption of the section offered by Mr. Wendling, a division was ordered. The committee divided, when, there - being twenty-two in the affirmative and twenty five in the negative, the section was not agreed to. Mr. WENDLING. Mr. Chairman: At the suggestion of my friend from Jefferson [Mr. Anderson] I desire to give notice that I will renew my motion in Convention; also, at the suggestion of my friend from Rock Island LMr. Truesdale], who has kindly yielded to me, I will renew the motion he proposed to pmake, that the committee rise, report mleasure. I have not offered it for "bun combe," or merely for effect, nor have I introduced it in order to take the floor and say something, but I mean just what I said. While I am very much obliged to him for the compliment he has seen fit to pay me, I must say his compliment, or rather assertion, bears a very equivocal con struction, when he questions my earnest ness. I am in earnest. As far as his assertion is concerned, in regard to pettifogging farmers, mer chants, mechanics, bankers and laboring men, and all these people beir.g made able to practice law with attorneys, I will say I am not here as an attorney. While I have a high regard and as deep a vetn eratior, and as much respect for the pro fe,si{)n with which I am identified, as alny gentleman on this floor, I,I( no feel that the people sent me here as an attor ney, no(r did his people send the geritle man fro Vermilion [Mr. Tincther] here as a banker, no-r the gentleman from Woodford [Mr. Bayne], as a farmer. If I understand our position, we are repre sentintg the whole people. When the gentleman says that under such a provis ion as that which I propose, men of every class can enter our courts and practice la-v as well as lawyers can, I reply that justice and common sense anti eternal right demand that the law should be so simLiplified that every man can practice law. That however is not possible. If it were, it should be the aim of every true, just, wise, prudent legislator to make our laws so siLnple that any man, the most simple-minded way-faring man could en ter our courts aijd receive justice, without the assistance of an attorney. That sir, is partially the object of that section which I propose to simplify, arid to reduce the practice of law, in a measure for it is all it can eff(:ct —to that simplicity whereby any man, who has a just cause of action, and has stated it upon the papers he has filed in the court, may be entitled to a judgment. But, as I stated when I was upon the floor before, one half the time, o(e half the expense, one half the vexation which arises from the prosecution of suits in our courts, arises from trivial, insignificant defects in papers. Why, sir, the bare omission of a figureora letter in one half the declarationss in the simplest forms of suits we have at law, without a statute of amendments, drives the person who seeks justice, from haer courts. Gentlemen may say ill reply, we have a statute of amendments now in existence, framed by the Legislature, that meets a large number of these defects. It is very true, sir; but I go further and provide more liberal privilege of amendme~:ts, and state that it is of sufficientt importance tol the people of Illinois to naot leave it sutbject to the whim of this or that Legislature, but to incorporate it into the organlic law of the Statre, acid maike it one of t'he undeniable, indefeasible rights of es cry citizen of the State of Illinois, that whenr he has entered our court of justice which he sustains by his taxes, which he sustains Has a citizen, if war encroaches upon: us, to have justice in our courts, whenever he has stated a sufficient cause of action. What is the- common lawY system of practice as we had it fifty years ago, aWg even dozen to a later period than that'? progress, and ask leave to sit again, to morrow at ten o'cl(-)ck. Mr. BRO'MWELL. Will the gentles man withdraw that motion for the tirme being? There is one section which, I think, we left in a shape we do not de sire it to remaiu in. I forget the section niow, but it fixes the salaries of judges at three thousat,nd dollars. It was the intention (of this committee that that should be the salary, and n o more, but I think the section was left in such a shape, that they can go on and get the three thousand dollars and their present docket fees until changed b) law. SALARIES OF CIRCUIT COURT JUDGES. The CHAIttMAN. The Clerk will read the section referred to by the gen tlenman. The Clerk read section sixteen as fol lows: SEC. 16. From and after the adoption of this Constitution, judges of the circuit courts shall receive a salary of three thousand dol lars per annum, payable quarterly, until otherwise provided by lavw. And after their salaries shall be fixed by law, they shall not be increased or diminisr,ed during the terms for which said judges shall be respectively elected; and no judge of any court shall re ceive any other compensation, perquisite or benefit, in any form whatsoever, nor perform any other than judicial duties to which may belong any emoluments. Mr. BRONMWELL. Mr. Chairmani: The latter part of that section is what I think leaves it open for judges to re ceive three thousand dollars and the docket fees. It says, "after their salaries shall be fixed by law," (which alludes to the- time when the Legislature shall act upon it), they shall not receive any more emoluments; but, up. to that time, it is very clear they are to receive three thousand d,,llars, in lieu of one thousand dollars, and not in lieu of docket fees. The present compensation is one thou sand dollars, to which the Legislature has added the docket fees. Now we raise that to three thousand dollars, and say nothing about the other emoluments ua til after the salaries have been regulate:d by act of the Legislature, and that after that they shall not receive these addi tional sums. I move we take up that section and make the verbal corrections necessary to prevent that effect. I ask unanimous CoDsent to do that. The CHAIIR.MAN. It will be done if there is tno obtjection. Mr. SKINNER. After the words "three thousand;" you can insert the words "and no more." Mr. UNDERWOOD). ~Thatis what the present Constitution says. Mr. BRO X1WELL. We expressly raise their salaries at the same time that we make provision that aiter a certain future event they shall not receive emoluments. the section yet needs a provision that will cut emoluments offt fom the timhe that this increased salary begins to take Offset.. Mr. UNDERWOOD. After the word "shall," in line:five, you can insert "mut .receive arny emolument or benefit.'} Mr. BROMW:ELL. Mr. Chairman: I should move, instead, to insert after the word "and" the words "rom an after the adoption of this Constitution " Mr. W:ELLS. Mr. Chairman: I believe that if gentlemen will consider the effect of this section they will desire to; chan ge it in other respects. I- have talked with M-&i?.cif 14, 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1195 CONSTIT'*UTIONAL CONVENTION gentlemen upon this floor about its operati)on, and there are scarcely any but X what state that they will be obliged in X their county to pay the judges an additional salary of from one thousand dol-, lars to four thousand dollars. The gentlemen from Cook county assert that no judge with a teaspoonful of brains will sit upon the bench there for less than seven thousand dollars. i I am well aware that no gentleman whose abilities command a fair business as a lawy er will sit upon the bench without a larger salary than this section pro vrides, or some provision by which he may receive the docket fees, or somethiisg from t he co unty treasury. In the circui t w hi ch I represent, no man worthy the position of judge can possibly be obtrain ed f or such a sum. Eit her the Statg must pay him a larger sum, or the Constitutioa must be sg) flexibl e as t o allo w the board of supervisors to pay him. Mr. CHURCH. I would like to inquire of the gentleman from Peoria [Mr. Wells] whether there are not very good judges ill his district, and how they were pre vailed upon to go on the bench? If they were prevailed on to accept one thousand dollars, why not get judges at three thou sand dollars? Mr. WELLS. We have as good judges in Peoria as in any other part of the State For many years no judge has sat on the bench in Peoria for one thousand dollars. They have received one thousand dollars in addition from the board of supervisors. They have also received a docket fee, which amounts to about one thousand dollars a year; and they get one thousand dollar. from the State ftor reporting defects in the law. I do not know how lo(g that law has been in operation; but I know it has been in operation a long time. My recol lection does not now run back to a time when judges did not receive more than one thousand dollars; and it does not run back to the time when they did not re ct,lve ove r three thousand dollars. For the purpose of correcting what I think to be an error, I move further t(o amend by striking out "three thousand dollars" and inserting "four thousand dollars." The CHAIRMAN The question is on the amendment proposed by the gentle man from Coles [Mr. Bromwell]. The amendmen~t was agreed to) Mr. TINCHEER. Mr. Chairman. Is the section susceptible of amenldmenst a~t this time? The CHAIRMAN. Only by unani mous consent. Mr. WELLS. The motion was to call up this sections for the purpose of amend m~erit. Unanimous consent was given — no objection~ was made. Mr. SKINNER. Was it not made fbr the special purpose of the specified change? Mr. WELLS. It was made with the special purpose of correcting the section, and for n,) other purpose. IN(, gentleman limited his consent t ) any particular put po)se, but to correct the. sectran, and fi~r that purpose I conceive the section to be before the committee. For that reason, alonIe, I offerr the amendment suggested. The CHAIRMAN It was mI~t an or der. Its was not an amendment to the first amendment. Mr. WELLS. I novw move that'three thousand dollars" be striaken out arid 'four thousand dollars" inserted instead. Mr. HART. Mr. Chairman: Does it require unanimous consent to take this matter up? The CHAIRMAN. That is t he i mpression of the Chair. Mr. HART. Then I object. Mr. WELLS. I understood it to be before the committee, and that gentlemen once consente d t o take this up and correct it. W hen befo r e the committee for the purpose o f correction, and partiall y acted upon, it is t at entlem n too late fr any gentleman to withd raw consent. It should not be left in the state of parti al amendm e nt that it is now. The CHAIRMAN. The understandiyag of the Chair was different from th a t of the gentleman from Peoria [Mr. Wells]. A st atement was made by the gen tlema n fr om Coles [Mr. Bromwell], that there would be a - difficulty in the construction of the section as passed, that it required so me ve rbal amendment to make it c )nsistent, and by unanimous con sent he was permitted to offier h is a mendment. Mr. KING. Mr. Chairman: I move that the committee do now rise, report pro,gress, and ask leave to sit again tomorrow mornilng, at half past ten o'clock. The motioni was agreed to. Mr. TURN ER. Mr. President: It may be possible that there will be some other matter s before the Convention to-morrow mornili,g, which may require more time than will iv,tervene be t wee n the time of nmeeting and half past ten o'clock. The resolution (,ff:red by myself, as chairman of the Committee upon Prin ting, will be called up, and may lead to some discussion, as it will be impor tant to take fixn,al actimon upon that subject before we take (Mur re c ess. The PRESIDENT. It is competent for the gentleman to move to amend by striking out tell and a half o'clock. Mlr. TURNER. Mr. President: I make that miotiou to so am-end. qihe ~,~E$1i)~'~ [. The question is Uponi the aui,:ndmhent striking out ten and a half (,'clh)ck. The motion was agreed to. PAY OF EMPL(O)YES. Mr. TURNER. M,Vr. President: A re solution was adopted a little while ago that the President of the Convention cer tify to the amount due certain officers. I find there has been a resolution already ad,opted reibrrin:g that subject to the C(,mmittee on Accounts and Expenditures. I mo,ve the wf~te by which that resolution was adopted bee recon~sidered. and that it ice referred to that committee The motion was agreed to). PER DIEM~ OF MEh!BERS, ETC. Mr. MlcDO WELL. Mr. President There was a resolution adopted this morning, payin~g each member $100. That reso~lution provided fbr pay lug mileage and Per diema. It should only be fir pe~ I would move to reconsider the-vote by which the resolution was adopt-ed, for the purpose of ame,,ding it, by inserting $70, w hch is the exact amount due, with out mtleage. Mr. HAINES, of Cook. Mr. Presi dent:* How dots the gentleman know that is the precise amount? Mr. McDOWELL. I am so informed by the Auditor. I mauve to substitute "4$70" in place of "$100," and strike out "mileage." Mr. VANDEVENTER Mr. Presi. dent: I move to lay th e resolution oni the table. The question being on t he motion to lay the resolution on the table, it was not agreed to The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the amendmenent offered by t he gentleman from White [Mr. McDowell.] The amendment was agre ed to ORDER OF BUSINESS. Mr. McCOY. Mr. President: I move that the Convention now t ake up t he report of the Committee on State, Counulty and Municipal Indebtedness. The motion was not a gre ed to. M r. SCHOLFIELD. M r President: I move the Conivention do now adjourn. REPORT OF THE COMMITTEE ON REVENUE. Mr. HAY. Mr. President: If t he Cs pveo otion is still i n working humor, an d nothing mor e urgent is before them, I would suggest we take up the report of the Committee ol Revenue. Mr. WELLS. Mr. President: I rise to a question of order. A motion to ad journi is not debatable. The PRESIDENT. The gentleman from Saimgamon [Mlr. Hay] was merely making a suggestion as to the order of business. Mr. SCFIOLFIELD. Mr. President: I will withdraw the motion to adjou rn. Mr HAY. Mr. President: I then move that the Convention do iow re. sol e itself into Committee of the Whole on the revenue report. Thee motion was agreed to. So the Convention, as in Committee of the Whole (Mr. Sedgwick in the chair), proceeded to consider the report of the Committee on Revenue. The CHAIRIMAN. The question is upon the report of the Committee oil Rev enue, and first upon the first section. The rep,,rt is as fo-llows: SEC. 1. All moneys accruing to the State, by virtue of the cuterle of the Illiuoi6 eenL tial railr-oad comupany, thall be paid into thie State t-reasury, and lorever constitute a por tl,)l Of Lblo revenue of the State; ald —,he General Ascbmbly thall have no power Lo re lea,e or otherwisle discharge salti railr,,ad company lioom the paymenit thereof: Pro vided, however', that nothing herein cnlain ell shall be construed as affecting the appliea ti'i of'ald money to the payment of inter ebt bearing Krate indebuccutne uniil the ex tinctton thretool, as provided in the charter of -sa~id company. SJEt. t3. lfhe General Assembly shall provide .such Iurther revenue as may be necutlui, ujy luym aUY1I ^ ax, by valuauion, so that[ every per bon andi cor'poration shall p)ay a LaX , mn proporl~ion ato;he ValUe oft his or her ,. property; ~ucha va.'ue to be ascrtained by bVome peryon or peraon~, to be elected or appoin~cc in ~uch manner as Lhe Guen ersal Abbenlbiy 1hall direct, and nlot o.Aacor:wibe; 0no th~e General A~sembly ~hail have *power to ta:x p~eddlers auca~oneers. rof kors, - hawker%, marchau~S, comm~ission murchluts, t showmenl, jugglers, inn-ke~epers, grocer~ye keepers, toll o~rm(ges, lirrie%, ins8urance, teld. graph gnd xpe~p-b interests or business, vends orb of ptebcn;, and persons using bull xer-b ciblmg Iranqlsc~ and privi~leges, in bucn maaS ner as it. ~hail, Iiroin t,ime to time, direct by r geUneral law, umlblrm as to the cla~ss upon which it operates. a bc. 3. The specification of the objects and subjects of' taxation shall not deprive the General Assembly el' the power to require 'other subjects or objects to be taxed, ill buch t mounner as may be consistent with;he princi ples of taxation fixed in this Constitution. tSzc 4. The property of the State, coluntie~ and other municipal corporations, both real earnd personal, and such other property a~ t may be necessary for sehoolereligious, ceme tery and charitable purposes, may be ex MONDAY, 1196 MAROH 14, 1870. DEBATIS AND POCIED1NG. 1197 empted from taxation; but such exemption fund, by the provision of the charter of shall be only by general Asmlaw. pvi the Illinois Central railroad, is payable S~c. 5. The General Assembly shall provide, into the State treasury, and appropriated in all cases where it may be necessary to sell real estate for the non-payment of taxes or by the provisions of the charter, in the special assessments for State, county, muni- first place to the liquidation of certain cipal or other purposes, that a return of such specified indebtedness, and thereafter pay unpaid taxes or assessments shall be made to able generally into the treasury. some general officer of the county having au- I do not think th-t the Committee on thority to receive State and county taxes; I do not think that the Committee on and there shall be no sale of said property for Revenue have misinterpreted the views any of said taxes or assessments but by said of this Convention in declaring here that officer, upon the order or judgment of some this money thus derivable from the Illi court of record; and the General Assembly nois Central railroad company shall con may, in its discretion, provide that the appli-st e a aroa pan r vn cation for the judgment shall be made at such stitute a part of the permanent revenue uniform time throughout the State, as may of the State, after the discharge of this be prescribed by law. specified indebtedness, and if they have SEC. 6. The right of redemption from all not misinterpreted the views of the Con sales of real estate, for the non-payment of nt is inte pre the s o t h taxes or special assessments of any character vention on this question, they have prop. whatever, shall exist in favor of owners and erly made that the foundation of the persons interested in such real estate for a revenue article, the corner-stone of our period of not less than two years from such revenue system. sales thereof. And the General Assembly shall provide, by law, for reasonable notice to They have set out in this article with be given to the owners or parties interested, the understanding that our dependence by publication, or otherwise, of the fact of for revenue hereafter in this State shall the sale of the property for such taxes or as- be first upon the funds derivable from sessments, and when the time of redemption the Illinois Central railroad, and after that shall expire. SEC. 7. The General Assembly shall pro- for such further revenue as th State shall vide for an equalization throughout the State need, upon taxation. The committee of the assessment of State taxes. thought there was some useful purpose to SEC. 8. The General Assembly shall have be served by placing thisfirst, that the no power to release or discharge any county, people and the Legislature might under city, township, town or district whatever, or ple and the Legislature ight under the inhabitants thereof, or the property stand whenever an attempt should here therein, from their proportionate share of after be made to divert that fund for any taxes to be levied for State purposes, nor purpose, that to the extent of any diver shall commnutation for such taxes be author- sion of that fund forx other than the ne ized in any form whatsoever. SEC. 9. All taxes levied for State purposes cessities of the State for revenue, to that shall be paid into the State treasury. I extent the taxation provided for in the Sac. 10. All appropriations of the State i subsequent sections of the revenue article revenue shall be from the revenue fund, in would be increased upon the people; that general, contained in the State treasury; and to the extent that they adhered to the no appropriation of the tax collected or to be collected from any locality or district, or any policy of providing that that fund should designated property or source of revenue, constitute forever a portion of the reve shall ever be made.'nue fund of the State, to that extent the M. IIAYc, C'hairmiant, M llAv ~ s people would plainly understand that N. J. PILLSBURY, W. P. Pic, they were relieved from the taxation ADDISON GOODELL, provided in subsequent sections. Hence, We. 11. SNYDER, they have made this the first provision of WILLIAMI C7ARY. the article. M.r. HAY. Mr. Chairman: I propose Let me briefly suggest here that if a now only to make a few introductory re- comparison of the subsequent portion of marks on this report, and will briefly call this artice is made with the article of our attention to the more general outline of existing Constitution on the subject of the report without going into any par- revenue, it will be found that the first ticular discussion of any clause And by section of the existing revenue article way of preface, I would ren;ark, that per. provides for a poll tax. That we have haps the shortest method of getting the entirely omitted, and it is not improper substance of this report before the Cornm that I should refer briefly to the reasons mittee of the Whole, will be by institu- that operated upon the committee for ting a short comparison of the article re- leaving that out of the system of revenue ported, with the revenue article in our provided. present Constitution, and calling attention The provision in regard to a poll tax simply to such additions, modifications has existed in our present Constitution, or changes as have been made in that since its adoption in 1848. It has re article, premising that the article here re- mained there a dead letter, and if pro ported, is substantially-the basis of it- vided in the present Constitution, will the same as the article now existing in continue a dead letter. There is no way our Constitutlon, with the modifications in which a poll tax can be collected so as and additions to which I will invite the to make it operate uniformly upon the attention of the committee. people, except by connecting the exercise The first section is not to be found in of some privilege with the payment of our present revenue article, and I will the tax. lo mode can be devised by briefly advert to the reasons why it is in- which we can collect it from all the ableserted hero. The Committee on Revenue bodied male inhabitants of the State, have but given expression, as thuy under- but by coupling with its payment the exstand, to the universal sentiment of this ercise of some political privilege guaranConvention, that some provision should teed by the Constitution, and by probe inserted in our Constitution in regard viding that the privilege shall not be exto the Illinois Central railroad fund; and ercised unless the tax be paid. The cornthey embodied that expression as aptly mittee did not believe that any Legislaas they could devise in this first section ture sWould ever sit, that would thus unof this revenue report. They think that dertake to enforce the collection of this whatever provision shall be adopted by tax. This being admitted, it must be this Convention in respect to the Illinois perceived that to undertake to enforce Central railroad fund should, properly, the collection of the tax, would necessabe placed in the revenue article. That rily produce inequality in its operation t 300 DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS.. MARCH 14) 1870. 1197 upon our citizens. It is not necessary to go into the reasons, as gentlemen can see why it would be so. The,qe ref,,sons operated upon a portion, of the co 1,.nittee. Another portion of the committee were of the opinion that the whole principle of the collection of a poll tax was wrong in theory; that the true method of collecting a tax for rev enue purposes, was by a tax upon prop. erty according -to its value; that any other mode of collecting a tax was erro neous in theory, and hence a very consid erable majority in'the coinvaittee concur red in striking out that provision in the existina Constitution. They then -passed on to what may be denominated as' the fundamental provi sioi,l of the existing Constitution, in re gard to the mode of assessing and collect ing revenues, and that they embodied in this second section. After mature rc-flec. tio,n, the committee'did not believe they could improve, nor do they believe that any attempt that may be made upon the part of this committee, or this Conven tiod, can-result in any improvement upon the principle of taxation, as provid'ed in the equivalent provision in our existing Constitution, with regard to the mode of collecting revenue, by assessments, ac. cording to the value of property. They have, therefore, simply followed the ex. istil,g constitution, in this second section, with a little addition in respect to certain classes of business, covered by the pro viso in that section. It is not necessary to detail the reasons why this was done. Mr. McDO WELL. I -would like to ask the gentleman a question. Would the latter portion of this section two operate so as to prohibit cities and towns from collecting taxes of this character? Mr. HAY. It will operate just as it has under the resent Constitution. Sec p tion three is a mere transcript of the existidg Constitution. Section four is a transcript of the existing Constitution, with some small amendments to which the attention of the committee is invited, in comparison with the existing articles. In section five the committee have introduced a provision in accordance with many suggestions that were made here, in the early part of the sessiod, and they believe it is an'important improvement in the mode of providing for tax sales, and the sale of ro ert for assessments. It 1198 COSTITUTJOAL COYEXTiON MoRAY, Mr. SKINNER. I will make the motion that the matter be referred to the Convention. Mr. SCHOLFIELD. I second the motion. Mr. HAINES, of Cook. I would like to know the condition we stand in regarding this matter when it goes before the Convention. Mr. SKINNER. Mr. Chairman: My understanding is that members of the committee do not feel themselves estopped from debate or offering propositions and amendments, at least to the same extent they would offer them if the article were reported after full debate. Mr. HAINES, of Cook. Mr. Chairman: I for one, have no objectionsto its taking that course, if it is understood that this is referred back to the Convention,. without recommendation, and stands substantially as it stands now; if it is not understood that the Committee of the Whole do not recommend it in its present shape at all, but that they have taken it up, and referred it back without recommendation. Mr. SKINNER. Even if there was a formal recommendation, it would be the same thing. lMr. HAINES, of Cook. Mr. Chairman: There are some very important questions underlying this matter of revenue, so important that this Convention cannot afford to dispose of them thus summarily. If it is the design of the gentleman to discuss this fully when it comes into open Convention, I will yield. Mr. SKINNER. It is the view, as understood in debate heretofore, that the question is fully open, that the whole subject is open to debate, without any limitations, by the action of the com mittee. Mr. HAINES, of Cook. If that is so, I am content, but not without. I should enter my protest against these proceedings unless it is understood that the article will be in that position when it comes into Convention-giving the members of this body unlimited right to discuss the prin ciples underlying it. Mr. SCHOLFIELD. Mr. Chairman: I prefer that the motion of the gentleman from Adams [Mr. Skinner] shall prevail, but at the same time, I want it distinctly understood that as at present advised, I shall not concur in the adoption of sec tions eight, nine and ten. I think, how ever, that under the present circumstan ces, it would be better to report this ar tiel e back to the Convention, and let it be published, so as to elicit from the public and the press of the country, during the vacation, such discussion upon the ques tions involved, as may be possible. Mr. ROSS. Mr. Chairman: Is it un derstood that the motion will take the report from the consideration of the Com mittee of the Whole? Mr. SKINNER. The object is to save time, by having this report, with other reports, printed and before the country, to be considered by the people. Mr. ROSS. Mr. Chairman: It looks to me as if the motion will dispose of the matter, so far as the Committee of the Whole is concerned. I have no objection to having the report printed and sent to the country, but this pro forma business will result in getting out of the Commit tee of the Whole, and giving the article to the Convention, where debate upon it In section t six the committee have embodied everything that they deemed useful in the provision existing in our present revenue law, in regard to the redemption of property from tax sales. The present machinery provided for the redemption of property from tax sales, very inconsistently fails to make any provision whatever, securing the right of redemption at all. It goes on to provide the manner of redeeming the property from tax sales, as the committee will find on looking at the section in the present Constitution, but utterly fails to secure the right of redemption. The committee thought it might be a useful provision in the present Constitution to permanently secure the right of redemption, and they have in this sixth section secured this right, substantially as it has for many years existed in this State by law. They have then provided that a notice shall be given when there has been a sale for taxes or assessments, and provide generally that such a notice shall be given, leaving it to legislation to provide the machinery and conform to the principles laid down in this sixth section of the revenue article. The seventh section secures an equalization of property throughout the State. The eighth section was designed to remedy an evil that has been considerably discussed during our sessions, and in regard to which I do not propose to go now into detail. It is in regard to the policy that has sprung up in our Legislature heretofore of commuting taxes, and providing legislation by which certain districts, counties and towns might avoid the payment of their proper dues to the State, under some pretense of doing something else as an equivalent. The Committee on Revenue deemed it proper that for the future that character of legislation should be cut off, and this eighth section was designed to prevent that sort of legislation. The ninth is simply to carry the intent of the eighth section more fully into effect, by providing that all taxes levied for State purposes shall be paid into the State treasury. The tenth section is a part of the same system attempted to be inaugurated by the eighth section, and designed to secure more effectually the end to be accomplished by the provisions of sections eight and nine: All appropriations of the State revenue shall be from the revenue fund in general, con tained in the State treasury;* and no appro.e printion of the tax collected, or to be col lected from any locality or district, or any designated property or source of revenue, shall ever be made. These are the general outlines of the plan of revenue reported by the commit tee. I suppose it will be proper to take the report up by sections and pass upon each separately. ORDEr~ OF BUSINESS. Mr. SKINNER. Mr. Chairman: I would suggest the gentleman adopt the course that. has been taken ill regard to the report on the judiciary, in order that it may go before the people dur ing the recess —namely.~ that it be re ported to the Convention p2rof orma, for consideration in the Convention. Mr. HAY. If that is the wish of the committee, of course I have no objection to that course being taken with it: that it be reported pro forma~o the Conven tion. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION MONDAYl 1198 can be cut off under the operation of the previous question, which I would not like to consent tas. We cannot do anything in a proforma way, in my opinion. Under the rules, the committee will have to take up the report section by section. The CHAIRMAN. It is competent for the committee to rise, if they shall desire to do so. Mr. HAINES, of Cook. Mr. Chairman: I believe it is to be reported back without recommendation. Mr. ROSS. Mr. Chairman: I ask a division of the question. The CHAIRMAN. The Chair decides that the question is not divisible. Mr, HAYES. Mr. Chairman: I believe the proposition to report the article to the Convention is a proper subject for discussion. I really do not see what we gain by meeting in Committee of the Whole to consider an article, and immediately reporting it back to the Convention. The Convention have referred it to us. It seems to me we have either got to consider it, or ask to be discharged from its consideration for some reason. I do not see that we can accomplish anything by reporting it without discussion. I think this is the proper time and place to consider and discuss it. Mr. ROSS. Mr. Chairman: What is the question now? The CHAIRMAN. That the committee now rise, and report the revenue article back to the Convention without recommendation. Mr. ROSS. Mr. Chairman: I move to amend the motion that it be set for consideration on the thirteenth day of April. Mr. SKINNER. I accept the amend ment. The CHAIRMAN. The question then is shall the committee now rise and re port back Mr. HAINES, of Cook. Mr. Chair man: Is not the question that the com mittee rise, report progress, and ask leave to sit again on the thirteenth of April? The CHAIRMAN. Yes, sir. Mr. ANDERSON. Mr. Chairman: I do not see any necessity for this child's play-going into Committee of the Whole, and then reporting back without doing anything. We had better take up the report, and pass upon it. The time has not yet arrived for our recess. We can pass upon this report, and many others} before Thursday night. Let us work, and work diligently, until the hour of adj ournment. Mr. C)ARY. ivtIr. Chairman: Is it in order to strike out the thirteenth day of April? If so, I move to amend by strik ing out the thirteenth day of April. Mr. HAY. Mr. Chairman: I supposed, mhyself, when I moved to go into Com mittee of the Whole on1 this article, that there was some lack of business, and that we might take up this report if the Con vention felt disposed, and consider it until the day of adjournment; and I do not see why we can not do it. I do not know the views of members in regard to entering upon any considerable business before the recess. Probably there is a disinclination to dc it. I thought if there was an inclination to dispose of fur ther business, we might as well go into this article as any other, as it was as short as any one not acted upon. I do not see that it will do any good to4'go through the DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. belong to the State. I think the Con vention, or the Committee of the Whole is prepared to meet that now; and I think the gentleman's friends are prob ably as well represented now as they will be at any particular time. If any ad vantage should be gained, it would of course be but temporary, because when the Convention assembles the question will be of course upon concurring in this report; and then, if a majority of the members having had an opportunity to consult their constituents, are prepared to reverse this action, they will hav e the opportunity to do so, because then they will all be here. The action of the Committee of t he Whole can be but a recommendation; even giving it its greatest force. The Convention can modify or reject the same, as they can with regard to reports of standing committees. Hence I hope that we will proceed with this revenue article. If there are these questions to be raised, it is emi nently proper that they should be raised before the recess. Let the constituencies of the various members know what opin ions are presented, and what reasons are given in the discussions that may arise, so that they can act intelligently in in. structing us what to do. These are ques tions if debatable have not yet been de bated. We ourselves, are probably not in possession of all the information that we should be. I confess that if there is any doubt in regard to this first section and the other sections alluded to, I have not yet gained sufficient information from the other side of these questions to be able to present the question to my con stituency. I should like to present it to them after deliberate action in the matter. Therefore I hope that we will proceed with the matter and finish it up as far as as possible. Mr. CARY. Mr. Chairman: My object in moving to strike out the thirteenth of April, was to allow us to take it up again to-morrow morning, if there is any objection to continuing it this afternoon. We have three days before the adjournment, and we might as well go on with it, it seems to me. Mr. TINCHER. Mr. Chairman: I hope the motion of the gentleman from JoDaviess [Mr. Cary], will be sanctioned so that we may have a chanceto vote this first section into the Constitution this afternoon. The motion of Mr. Cary was not agreed to. So the committee refused to strike out "thirteenth of April."a The CHAIRMAN. The question is now on the motion of the gentleman from Fulton [Mr. Ross], that the committee rise, repo t progress, and ask leave to sit again on the thirteenth of April. Mr. TINCHER Mr. Chairman: I know that the motion is not debatable, but I want to say that I hope we will take up the first section at once. Mr. HAY. I would suggest to the gentleman from Fulton [Mr. Ross], that, as the committee want something to do, it might make some progress in the article. When we come to these sections, I think there would not be a disposition to push this question. Mr. ROSS. I have not thrown any impediment in the way. It was only because gentlemen proposed to adopt the report pro formca. I had no objection to REVENUE DEPARTMENT. The CHAIRMAN. If there is no ob. jection, the report will be taken up and considered by sections. The Clerk read section one, as follows: SECTION 1. All moneys accruing to the State by virtue of the charter of the Illinois Central railroad company, shall be paid into the State treasury, and forever constitute a portion of the revenue of the State; and the General Assembly shall have no power to re lease or otherwise discharge said railroad company from the payment the reof: Pro vided, however, that nothing herein contained shall be construed as affecting the application of said money to the payment of interest bearing State indebtedness until the extinc tion thereof, as provided in the charter of said company. Mr. MOORE. Mr. Chairman: That section presents a very grave question to the people that live along the road. I wish it to be very thoroughly considered before it is adopted, and I will say that ten minutes is not long enough for any body to make the argument that is neces sary to be made. I shall not attempt to go into details. When the State of Illinois gave the Illinois Central Railroad company its land, they agreed with the company that if it would pay them seven per cent. upon all its gross earnings, there should be no other tax, State, county, or municipal levied upon them. This seven per cent. can be raised by the State by an assess ment, to, perhaps, eight or nine per cent., but counties and cities get no benefit from the increase. At that time it was supposed that that seven per cent. would come out of the railroad company's earn ings. Since that time it has been demon strated that it comes out of the produce and the travel that goes over the road. The freight and fare upon that road, I assert, is from one-fifth to one-sixth high er than any other road in the State, of which I know anything. Probably about seventy or seventy-five per cent. of the travel and freight is local, and the tax falls upon the people that live upon the two sides of that road. For the same facilities, we pay more to this railroad company than any other people pay for similar facilities on any other road. That railroad has paid into the State a little over three million dollars-exactly three million, two hundred and seventy one thousand, three hundred and ten dollars and seventy cents. Of that amount, I say, the people living on each side of that road, who have used it, have paid at least two million five hundred thousand dollars. They pay that amount more than they should pay, because it is added to their freights and fares upon the railroad, It was supposed, when we made the contract that that would not be the case; that our fare swould be as low, and our freights would be as low as upon any other railroad; but it is not so. Now, the counties and cities through which the road runs, insist that if this seven per cent. is to be retained, they should have some chance to get some little of it back in lieu of their county and city taxes bartered away by the Legislature. I will here say that i shall vote for ~he retention of the seven per per cent. rdo M-&]?,CH 14) 1870. 1199 mere form of reporting it to the Co nven tion when it has not been discussed. But now as it is before the committee, I would like to have it understood when it will come up aga!D. I know of no other busi ness set for the time immediately after re cess; and probably April 13 would be as good a time to postpone it; to as any. Mr. RICE. Mr. Chairman: I have no great choice about the disposition of the report. I vill acquiesce in whatever course the chairman of this standing committee [Mr. Hay] suggests. But as we are in Committee of the Whole,.what is to be gained by reporting back now? I cannot understand, unless there is a de termination to get rid of business until after the recess. Several days intervene yet before the recess. Why cannot the committee be occupied with this report? Mr. ROSS. Mr. Chairman: The main reason I had was, I thought we would all want to consult our constituents in rela tion to whether Illinois is Finished and fenced up and no further improvements are to be made, in the future, forever. I want gentlemen to have an opportunity to consult their constituents.- I think this is not what the people desire, and that some delegates will return with a different impression from what they have now. The people are more hopeful than we are. They are looking forward with bright anticipations to the time when this whole country will be checkered over with railroads and Nourishing cities and towns. 1, therefore, am opposed to a provision like this, in the Constitution, repealing the laws -of the last two Legislatures, which gentlemen fear they cannot induce the Legislature to repeal, and which they therefore desire to repeal in a Constitution. Mr. RICE. I only yielded the floor a moment for a quesion. Mr. ROSS. I did not know the gentleman had the floor. I beg pardon of the gentleman. Mr. RICE. Mr. Chairman: I only desired to ascertain the reason for postponing. I think the committee are now satisfied and ready to vote. Mr. CHURCH. Mr. Chairman: It seems to me that the committee is as full now as I have seen it for several days, go on with it in the regular way, and consider the report by sections. Mr. SKINNER. As the gentleman, who is interested largely in the report, agrees with the chairman, I will withdraw my motion, with his consent. 1200 COXSTITUTIOAL COYETJO MoNDAY, I ask this Committee of the Whole not to make this article too strict upon usnot to impose too many burdens. We pay our full amount of State tax besides paying seven-tenths of this seven per cent. The State government should not be run entirely upon the money contributed by the labor and capital of persons using the Central railroad. Give these people some chance with future Legislatures to get a part of it back for county and city purposes, if they can get a Legislature willing to do it. I do not want the company to be released from this tax. I do not ask that, but I do ask that this section be so framed that the Legislature can give back to the counties and cities through which the road runs a small portion of this money, say two per cent., or whatever they in their wisdom may see fit. For that purpose, I will move to strike out in the second line, "and forever constitute a portion of the revenue of the State." Mr. CHURCH. Mr. Chairman: I hardly can understand, from what little I know of the history of this Illinois Central railroad, what the honorable gentleman from DeWitt [MIr. Moore], means when he says that he desires the committee to leave this subject in a condition where certain counties can get a part of the fund back. Now, sir, I do not know that the county of DeWitt or any other county of this State has any better claim from the revenue growing out of the donation of land to the Illinois Central railroad, than every other county in this State. This was land, sir, not belonging to the county of DeWitt. This was land donated by the general government to the State of Illinois for this purpose. Whether the contract made by the State with the Illinois Central railroad was a provident or an improvident one, I am unable to say, because I do not know how good terms the State could have obtained; but I can clearly say and believe, that whatever terms they did obtain should have been, as they are, for the benefit of the whole State, so far as that company should pay anything to the people of the State for the land transferred by the State. Now, I would ask the gentleman from DeWitt [Mr. Moore], and the friends of the opposition to this section, whether they have considered that but for this donation of land by the general government to the State, and the use of the land by the State, by means of the Illinois Cen. tral railroad company, they might not at this time have had any sections of land in the neighborhood that he speaks of; taxable for any purpose? There are whole regions of land there, now greatly b enefited, that might have been to this day a wilderness, and the chain of cities and large towns that have grown up along the line of that railroad have afforded to the counties through which it runs subjects for taxation, which they probably would not have realized to this day, or until many years after this time, if ever-never certa inly until sonie improvement were undertaken. Now, sir, aside from the property that has been built up in thesecounties, which is a subject of legitimate taxation for county and municipal purposes, they have received all the benefits of railroad transportation, if railroads are benefit cial to the counties through which they run, and that, too, at the exp ense of this whole State notu at the expense of these counties, but at the expense of this whole State, for the land was donated for the whole; whereas, other sections and other counties of the State have not received any of these benefits. Will the gentlemen along the line of that road say that the benefits that they have received by having the resources of - their country developed, through being brought into communication with markets both north and south, have not been greater than have been derived by other portions of the State, besides building up markets in their own midst, and establishing of other markets at the extremities of the road? Other counties have received none of these advantages, and yet they paid as much toward the construction of the railroa. d as the counties along the line, by givilg that property away, which was given to all alike. Mr. MOORE. Mr. Chairman: I would like to ask the gentleman from McHenry [Mr. Church], if he says the counties and cities through which the Illinois Central railroad passes, can tax the road bed, or its property, under the charter? Mr. CHURCH. Mr. Chairman: I suppose not, but they can tax the property of individuals who have settled in them and made those cities and towns. Where would those cities and towns have been where would the town of Tolono have been now? Would there have been even a neighborhood settlement within miles of there.? Look at the Grand Prairie. How would that have been now? It would probably have been still a wilder ness. The people who owned the land in that section of the country, have found it ten times more valuable than it would have been but for the construction of that road. If there were any means by which the State could retain its present revenue from that company, and still give other revenues to the counties along this line arising from that railroad couapany's property, I should have no objection. I care not to what extent taxes may be put upon that railroad company, so far as they go to the benefit of these localities, but I am opposed to releasing any of the benefits accruing to anv other counties of the State, by releasing the claims of the State, or any of them; because releasing what is due the State would be releasing what is due the counties of the State, away from the line of road, indirectly. It is understood by the compact en. fteed into, that taxes can be imposed only to a limited extent, not seven per cent., as claimed by the gentleman from De Wilt [Mr. Moore], but to the extent of five per cenlt., with a taxation of threefourths of one per cent. upon the assessed value of all their property. But there is a clause in the charter that it shall be two per cent., and shall never be less, in the whole, than seven. Therefore, there has been a revenue of seven per cent. But, sir, in my opinion, the State of Illinois is entitled to derive fromn the revenue of that road over seven per cent.from eight to nine per cent. —and I do not know but mole, if there should be a fair assessmrent of'the property, and threefourths of one per cent. paid int addition to the five per cent. I look forward to the time that we will get ten per cent. of the earnings of that road into the not believe in releasiong it; I do not think it would be right. Although I say within ten years, if there is no provision made by which the counties and cities can get back a portion of the money paid into the State treasury in this manner, a clause of this kind will be defeated when the next Constitution is framed. There is no gentleman living on this railroad, now here, but what can go home after voting against the retention of the seven per cent., if no provision is made for a return of a part of this fund to counties and cities, and sustain himself. It may take six months' discussion in the newspapers to show why he did so, and then all will appreciate it. We must be allowed in the counties to get our proportion of the county and city taxes on this railroad property from the State treasury. We cannot tax the railroad for city and county purposes at all, under its charter. Now, is it fair that that amount of property should exist in a county, and yet not be liable to taxes, when the inhabitants along the road are compelled to pay two and one-half millions to the State revenue over and above their proportion of State taxes? This thing out to be so modified that the Legislatures hereafter can be allowed to apportion this per cent. to the different counties in proportion to the length of the road or the value of the property in the county. As it now is, it is a terrible burden upon us and our industry. Every man'who travels on the road, every bushel of grain or pound of pork that passes over any part of it, pays its proportion first to the State revenue at home as property owned by an individual, and then, when it is shipped, its proportion of this seven per cent. beside, making the people on the line of that road pay much more than a just proportion of the State expenses. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION MONDAY) 1200 It is a gross iDj ustice not to allow a portion of this to go back to the counties for county purposes. If this Con-ye-ation proposes so to fasten it in the Constitution, I do not think it can harm the Constitution just at this time, but it will within the next ten years raise an outcry so'that in the next Constitution the compa,nv will be discharged (if they will acZeff such discharoe), be taxed in lieu of this seven per cent. and be forever released from it. I do not want them to be discharged, but I insist that these counties shall have a portion of this money. I would like to go through and show ,the effects of their charter upon all the different interests of the thirty-one counties through which it is located. We have had all these even sections exempted from all county and school taxes by the Legislature, and probably not one-half or onethird of them are taxed now for any county or city purpose, not being paid for. The odd sections have built all the school houses and paid all the taxes, except the small amount the State gets by freight and travel, furnished by these even sections, that is put on this road and goes up to Chicago or other places. This is a terrible burden upon those owning the odd sections. They have had the' school houses to build and teachers to pay. We have had to bear it because it was a part of the contract. I We were too eager to make the contract with the railroad company. We cannot now help ourselves. MA~~cH 14, 1S~0. I)~~13A~~s A~1) ~ 1201 But clearly, to my mind, they have an equitable right to some participation in this fund. It is a fund which origi nated in a grant from the congress of the United States for the purpose of making a road. It is true, the counties through which it passes, did not contribute. It is also true that McHenry county, and the other counties off the line, did not contribute. The State did n-t contribute. It is sim ply a road that happens to come in with a grant of lands. The State, for that reason, takes away from the counties the right to tax it. Besides, it has tied up the h'nds of the counties so that they cannot tax these lands until they are sold. Then, besides this, there is a mani fest abuse, by the railroad company sell ing the land along the road, but retaining the title-a trifling balance being kept back purposely-that the title may con tinue in the road, and thus escape taxa tion. A man who has thus bought land, goes on and makes a fine farm, but it cannot be taxed, as a little balance re mains unpaid to the railroad, and the title is kept in the company. This is a hardship that has been mentioned by the gentleman from DeWitt [Mr. Moore]. Those owning the land between those odd sections have to pay all the taxes in many localities. If the committee strike out the words proposed by the gentleman from DeWitt tlMr. Moore], I would offer an amendment to insert a blank, as to the amount, for I will not, at this moment, suggest what proportion ought to be paid. The CHAIRMAN. It is not in or der. Mr. BliOMWELL. There is a motion to strike out, and this is a motion to fill that blank, which is equivalent to the question to strike out and insert divided. It is immaterial whether the amendment be in order or not, for if the amendment of the gentleman from DeWitt [Mr. Moore] fails, it is not likely this will be tinserted. This question has not been thought of, has not been canvassed, perhaps not been understood; but it is worthy of consi-d oeration. Here are some thirty or forty counties in the State which are precluded fromn deriving any taxation from the road-bed or rolling stock of this railroad. It is admitted by the gentleman from McHenlry [Mr. Church] to be a railroad which cost neither the State or the county anything. It has come in as other railroads have, but bringing with it a grant of land from Congress for a specific purpose. The State has held it proper bfrom that cause-which is not sufficient rh cause -to prohibit the counties receiving the share which would ordinarily fall to them along the line of the road. [Here the hammer fell]. Mr. TINCHER. Mr. Chairman: I am of the opinion that the people of the n State expect the section to be adopted. 4 It is one of the important questions before n this Convention, and I am a little aston- o ished, I must admit, to find my colleague i [Mr. Bromiwell] occupying the ground he a hdoes in regard to it.: I can very readily conceive why there may be parties living along the line of p the road who seek to turn into their home d treasuries the taxes arising upon this p Central railroad; but I cannot for the q life of me, see why it can be claimed that 1 it is an act of justice to those counties,. State treasury, which will belong to the State of Illinois and not to the countieb through which that property rtuns. Mr. BRO',UWELL. Mr. Chairman: It is true, as the gentleman from McHenry [Mr. Church] states, that this claim of the State on the Central Railroad is corn posed of five per cent. on the gross pro duct of the road, and three-fourths per cent. on the value of its property, and, as I have no doubt, the claim is now justly more than seven per cent. Every dollar of its increased value is a source of addi tional taxation, which belongs to the rev enue of the State. Now, sir, suppose that the Central rail road, unlike any other railroad, were sitn ply taxable, would not the counties have power to ttax it as they do other roads? The State has seen fit to commute the taxes of the Central railroad for a certain amount-a variable amount —neverthe less a fixed commutation. Now, in doing this, it is just as if they had made the same arrangement with the Terre Haute and Alton road-that they should play so much into the State treasury in order to be exempt from taxation. Would not that be manifestly unjust to the counties along its line? It is the right of the coun ties and towns to tax the property of these roads. But it is alleged by the gentleman fro,m McHenry [Mr. Church] that this cannot apply to the Central railroad, because that was built at the expense of the State. Now, sir, it was built in this way: The United States government furnished the land, which was given to the State-not to do what the State might please with it-for an express specific purpose, to make a road; so the road was built, with out any expense ou the part of the State or on the part of the comuties, on the part of MeHei-ry, or any other county. There upon, the road goes to work. True, it briiigs business and taxable property into those counties; but on that taxable property the people pay their taxes to the State. It ulso brings in the property of the railroad. On that par ticular property the Sta e takes the whole tax. Why should she take that ally more than the tax on any other increase of prop erty caused incidentally by the road? Here is a fund. It is true the State had the power to waive it entirely, or have it paid into the State treasury (as she did), or into the State and county treasuries. Heretofi~re, it has been paid to the State treasury, while the railroad, as the gentleman fromh DeWlitt [Mr. Moore] says, and I believe, by its exactions on local commerce gets more over and above what would be reasonable than the whole seven per cent. it pays into the State treasury. I do not suppose that railroad lays burdens upon through trade, more than other railroads. We all know that all ralro~ads make discriminations against localities wherever there is not a cross railroad; such, for instance, as charging a man eleven dollars for a car from Tolhmn, and twenty-two dollars for a car from Champaign to Chicago, so that people have been known to haul corn away in wagons, fronm Champaign to Tolono, and shlip it balls to Chicago through -their own town. These discriminations fall upon the neighborhood on the line. I do not pretend to say what proportion of that money would justly go to the counties. -g31' i n f f 0 r t e t t e 8 t t I t I I RAP.CIET 14, 1870. l)-El3AT-tS AX-D -P'ROCt-tl)IN(xS. 1201 They are not the only Parties that pay tribute to these Central railroads by aiiy means, and the privilege of living Lipon these roads is equal to the disadvadtage. They have got one of the best railroad in the State, and have not bad to pay a sitgle dollar for it. We find along the line of these railroads Notwithstanding they claim that thev Lret no taxes off that road for their county and municipal I)ur poses) that land is worth more thn i-n al. most any other portion of the State. Why? Because they have got the best market in the north and the best markplt in the south. And they U'eed not argue to we that these parties living along the line of this road pay this seven per cent. They pay just the proportion that they do business on that road, and no more, and other people traveling and doing business with the road pay the remain der. Mr. IVIOORE. The local traffic is about seventy per cent. upon the Central. It is about iainety-five per cent. on thi's road. Mr. TIXC14tR. As to the proportion they pay, bv their local business, I do not know exactly what it is, neither is it ma terial in the'discussioia of this question, Parties living along tbt line of that road have the same opportunity that peopl have anywhere else. They can sell ou and travel if they do not want to settle there and, pay the seven per cent. In my county we are paying, to get railroads, a large sum of money, that we vote out ( our own pockets, a rid these identical gen tlemen who come up here and complain of this Central road,l would be glad, i they did not I)ave- it, to be taxed to get' it. Now, they simply come up and complain of a little per cent., which goes into.the State treasury, from which they receive as much advantage as anybody else. Their lands are valuable, as I before remarked, and I presume that ajjyone goinlr along the Ce,trttl road, and inquiridg, ill find that rig:at wliere they are suffering this terrible wrODL)I. they are askidg from five to ten-doirrs an acre more than they are out back a little piece; and I presume gentlemen liViD(I twelityfive tyiiles from the railroad wou'l'd pay a reasonable difference to get tip to the railroad where they might have the ad.' vantaves c-f being "robbed," as these 12O ()ST1TUTIOAL COYETJ() TUESDAY, taxes that would otherwise be levied upon the property of that company were commuted. The company pays so much into the State treasury, and in lieu thereof the counties are prohibited from taxing the property of the company. Now the question has been pertinently asked, and it will bear repetition, whether the gentleman from McHenry [Mr. Church], for instance, would be willing that the State should make a contract with the Northwestern Railroad company, by which that company should pay into the State treasury a certain per centage in lieu, and in commutation of the taxes which the counties, towns, and other municipal corporations along the line of that road now levy upon the property of that railroad company; and the question might be asked of every other member who represents a county in Illinois upon the line of the Northwestern railroad. Here was a contract with the Illinois Central railroad company, that in lieu of taxes, so much should be paid into the State treasury. By that )contract the State assumed to say that county authorities should not for the future levy any taxes whatever upon prop erty of this railroad company, lying within the bounds of the counties along its line, but that its equivalent should all go to the benefit of the State. The real question, Mr. Chairman, is simply this: Shall the counties lying along the line of the Illinois Central rail road, and along the line of the branch, bear the burdens, and pay the expenses of the government of this State? That is the simple and the plain question, as I understand it. Now, it is said by the gentleman from Vermilion [Mr. Tincher], that we, the people in those counties, bought land, knowing that this contract was in existence. I would say to the gentleman that McLean county was somewhat settied, that Bloomington was somewhat settled before the Illinois Central railroad was built; and the same thing can M be said of most of the other counties in this State, through which the road runs. From a map before me, I will run over the list of these counties. It includes, on the main line, Jo Daviess, Stephenson, Ogle, Lee, LaSalle, Woodford, McLean, Dewitt, Macon, Christian, Shelby, Fayette, Marion, Washington, Perry, Jackson, Union, Pulaski, and Alexander; and on the branch —Cook, Will, Kankakee, Iroquois, Ford, Champaign, Douglass, Coles, Cumberland, Shelby, Effiugham, Fayette and Marion. sNow then will the gentlemen of this committee or the Convention be willing to say to the people of all these counties "We will not allow justice to be done, but we will foreclose this matter, and prevent future Legislatures, for all time, as long as the Constitution continues in force, from~ rendering you justice." Are gentlemen willing to put such a provis ion in the Constitution, and submit it to the people of the counties? Will the Convention have the hardihood to ask them to vote directly in favor of such a manifest act of injustice and wrong to themselves? Are gentlemen willing to array these counties against the adoption of the Constitution 9 Mr. ABBOTT. Mr. Chairman: I wish to make a few remarks on the subject. It is true, as the gentleman from Yermilion [Mr. Tincher] has remarked, that me vo ting every tim e, to regula te them; but when they say that we shall take from the State treasury, a nnually, the money that belongs there, and turn it back into the county treasuries of the respective counties through which the road runs, I am against it; and I am against turning any part of it back upon those counties. I did not suppose, when this first section of this report was called up, that there would be twenty minutes discussion upon it; but as I find that there will be an effort made to take a portion of this State fund and turn it over to the benefit of the counties, I presume the gentlemen will make the very best fight possible upon the subject. But I know this very well, that there are too many people living off the centre of the road to divert the State tax from its legitimate purpose. Not that we would rob any county of a dollar that belongs to it; but because these people went and settled upon that road knowing the identical provisions of the law upon that contract, and did it voluntarily. Nobody compelled them to settle along the line of the railroad, where the funds should be turned into the State treasury. They went and paid double price for their land in order to get near the railroad. I bought a few acres of it myself, and paid two dollars and fifty cents an acre, when I could have gone back a few miles and got it for one dollar and twenty-five cents. Now, I do not complain that there is a gross injustice done me because I cannot get the taxes paid to me. It is a very nice little "set up job." tHere the hammer fell.] Mr. BENJAMIN. Mr. Chairman: It will be welt for us to keep in view the exact question before us. Those of us who support the amendment proposed by _~y colleague, the gentleman from De Witt [Mr. Mpore], are in favor of holding the Illinois Central railroad company to their contract with the State. There is tIo proposition whatever, before this committee to release or discharge the railroad company in any way from the payment of what is imposed upon the company by the charter contract. All we desire is simply that this Constitution shall not tie up future Legislatures so as to prevent them from doing justice to the counties through which this road and the branch run. That is the sole object we have in view by this amendment. We do not expect that this Convention will adopt any provision by which a portion of the funds arising from this source shall be paid back to the counties. W~e do not expect anything of this kind. We simply ask that the door may be left open, so that some fiuture Legislature, being muoved thereto by a sense of justice, may compensate, in a measure, the counties lying aBong this road, for the loss they now sustain, by being deprived of the power of:t.%ing thle road. Alithough a majority oif t h~ members of the Legislature will come,from counties not lying upon the line,.this road, or the branch, we yet do hope that at some day this question will.be 2rXesented before them in such a light' that ~they will see that these counties that are now deprived of the right and powverovf levying any tax upon the property of.thi railroad ought to have something in lienu Of it. The State made a contract with the Illinois -Central railroad, l~ which the PAY OF POLICEM ar. Mr. BAYNE. Will the gentleman withdraw the motion for a moment? I wish to introduce a resolution. Mr. WENDLING. I withdraw the motion for that purpose. The Secretary read the resolution offered by Mr. Bayne, as follows: Resolved, That the Auditor of Public Accounts draw his warrant on the Treasurer for seventy-six dollars for each policeman of this Convention for their services in full to the eighteenth of iM4arch, 1870. Mr. BAYNE. Mr. President: The amount named in the resolution will be the amount due on the day of adjournment, at six dollars per day. Mr. ANDERSON. Mr. President: I move that the resolution be referred to the Committee upon Accounts and Expenditures. Mr. BAYNE. Mr. President: The amount has been passed upon before by the Convention, has it not? Mr. McDOWELL. I would ask if that is in addition to the seventy dollars voted a while ago? The PRESIDENT. The motion is not debatable. The question is upon the motion to refer the resolution to the Committee on Accounts and Expenditures of the Convention. The motion was agreed to. ADJOURNM4ENT. Mr. WENDLING. Mr. President: I now renew my motion that the Convention do now adjourn. The motion was agreed to. So the Convention (at five o'clock and thirty minutes), adjourned. 1202 CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION TUESDAY, there are counties other than those through which the Central railroad runs, which have purchased their roads. They have had to contribute to the building of them. In the district from which I have come, sir, there has been a perfect uuderstardiDg among the people. as well as between my colleague [Mr. Archer] and myself, in reference to this Central railroad tax, and we, as delegates, have been requested to advocate the securidg Of this seven per cent. to the people forever. I think it is Only right and just that that should be done, and I perfectly accord with the section that treats on that subject. I shall give it my support, unreservedly, to all intents and purposes. Mr. KING. I move that the committee rise, report progress and ask leave to sit again. The motion was agreed to. Mr. WENDLING. Mr. President: I move that the Convention do now adj,)urn. SIXTY-FIFT.UDAY.. TUIF,SDAY, March 15, 1870. The Convention met at ten O'clock A. u., and was called to order by the Presdent. PRAYER. Prayer was offered. by the Rev. Mr. Hale, of Springfield, as follows: Father in Heaven, help us, with all our hearts, to acknowledge Thee, giver of every god and perfect gif, with whom there is no variableness, neither shadow of turning. To Thee, 0 God, help us to commit all that is of interest to us here, in the life that now is, and that which is to come. Feeling that we have a Father in Heaven, may webe strong to do MARCH 15, 1870. DEBATES AXD I'OCEEDINGS. 1203 debates in Globe form, with the third volume, and thus secure to members, as far as practicable, the same facilities for advising their constituents of the daily proceedings of the Convention by the printed debates in Globe form, that they have possessed heretofore, through the agency of the Convention Register. My object in offering this substitute is to cover the ground which is not covered by the resolution cfftred by tbe chairIlan. I regret, as much as any gentleman can, the necessity which is imposed upon us, of again bringing up the "printing question" before this body; but circumstances which we cannot control, have made it imperative upon us. And now that it is brought before us, I trust that it will be taken up and considered, fully, frankly, finally, and in the spirit of fair and impartial justice to all parties interested. I do not desire to say one word in defense of the Printing Committee. We have no defense to offer, for we have committed no offense. We have brought to bear whatever experience, energy and integrity we possess, in behalf of the Convention and of the public in relation to its printing. We have struggled from the first against the tide. Circumstances have been against us that we could neither foresee nor control; and we have been placed in the disagreeable dilemma of endeavoring to please everybody, and succeeded in pleasing none. While the contractors have thought, on the one hand, that we have been unreasonable and exacting in our demands, the Convention has thought that we were not exacting enough. It has been a thankless job. If I had any ill feeling against any gentleman, I would desire no greater punishment for him than to have him placed upon this Printing Committee, and compelled to serve upon it for a month. While I do not, however, desire to say one word in behalf of the committee, I do desire to say one word in behalf of the contractors. They have, in my judgment been sinned against as well as sinnling. The amount of matter printed has far exceeded the utmost limit of previous calculations. There was not a gentleman in this Convention, three months ago, who did not suppose that before this time we would have finished our labors and adjourned, sine die. The startling fact is now before us, that we are not much more than halft through with our work. The amount of matter delivered by members individually, has exceeded all reasonable bounds. If gentlemen could have been told sixty days ago, of the extent of the remarks delivered in this Convention, for which they are individually responsible, they would have held up their hands in horror, and said "Is thy servant a dog, that ferd ystedayby he haiman I illhe should do this thing?" Were all thethntewrcotatdfr Thhur read it: ~~~~~~remarks made by some gentlemen upon this i hc hswr a cndn spr Resoved Tht te Cmmiteeon riningfloor in such an unceasing volume, brought hp h he as fteerr on togetrg, t y would actually fill a book. Now, sir, the printers are not responsible for that. If gentlemen feel that they h must address the Convention on every amendment to every section proposed, the printer cannot impose silence upon them, and should not be blamed for the re sults. To some extent tue printers are re sponsible for the errors. There have many errors of a serious nature crept into this work. I cannot defend them wher et ver they are legitimately guilty. There have been in some instances mistakes His will; earnest in our love to Him; impartial in our love to our fellow-beings; ready to do and to be and to suffer, if need be, what is Thy will concerning us. And Lord, we pray Thee, be with us this day, as Thou hast been with us during the year, and kept us and brought us to the light of this morning. Bless the members of this body, and Thy servantwho is called to preside over them. In their labors of to-day, be Thou the guide of their acts; let Thy light, Thy truth, Thy justice, Thy love, Thy presence be furnished them. Do Thou remember their households; bless them in all that pertains to them, that their lives and their welfare may be precious ih Thy sight. We pray that the work here done may be carried on with fervent regard to God, and the welfare of this State. We entreat Thee that Thou!ilt bless this commonwealth; bless Thy servant, the Governor, and all that are associated in authority; bless our judges, and our counselors, and all to whom power, in the relations of civil life, is committed. May God, in his mercy, be with them, that righteousness and judgment may be the stability of our times; and that pure and undefiled religion may prevail throughout all ranks of society, controlling all our life and lifting it above the corruptions of the world. And, when our work is done, Father in Heaven, do Thou gather us, when we have gained the victory, to our Lord Jesus Christ, to whom be the glory, forever. Amen. READING OF THE JOURNAL. The Secretary read the journal of the last day's proceedings. PETITIONS AND COMMUNICATIONS. The PRESIDENT. The presentation of communications and petitions is now in order. COpUNTY REPRESENTATION, ETC. Mr. GOODELL presented certain resolutions from the board of supervisors of Ford county in relation to county representation, division of counties, etc. The resolutions were read and laid upon the table, to be considered in Committee of the Whole, with the report of the Committee on Counties. MAILING OF REPORTS. Mr. KING offered the following resolution, which was read by the Secretary and agreed to: Resolved, That the Secretary of this Convention be instructed to procure and mail to the postoffice of each member of this Convention, while at home during recess, his due proportion of the different reports passed upon in Committee of the Whole and in Convention, in pamphlet form, as soon as they are printed, as ordered by the resolution of the gentleman from Pike [Mr. Archer]. FRILNTING AND REPORTING TO CONVEN TION. The PRESIDENT. The next business in order i s t he d isposi tio n of the resolution from the Committee upon Printing. Mr. CAMERON. Mr. President: I desire from the Printing Committee to present a substitute for the resolution offered yesterday by the chairman. I will read it: Resolved, That the Committee on Printing and Binding be, and the same hereby are instructed to dispense with the further printing of the debates in newspaper form. Resolved, That said committee be instructed to enter into contracts for the printing of the debates in Globe form: Provided, The same can be done promptly and properly at a price not exceeding sixty cents per one thousand ems. Resolved, That said comnmittee be instructed to enter into contract with the official reporters of this Convention, for the reporting of the further proceedings of the Convention, for publication in Globe form alone: Provided, The same can be done at reduced expense. Resolved, That said committee be further instructed to commence the printing of the MARCH 15, 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1203 committed which proper care would have prevented. At the same time, we must take many things into account. This work has been pushed through in the night time, when the men were exhausted and wearv. To some extent, members of the Conention are responsible for the errors that have crept into the work. The copy from which the type has been set up, has not been -fit to go into the hinds of any compositor, be he ever so careful. It has been altered, interlined, and twisted around so much by the members, that we find in the original copy very little of the original speech. Another difficulty against which the print'ers have had to conterd, has arisen out of the character of the workmen, We all know that, SpriDgfleld is a small place in fact, though large in the estimation of its own citizens. The facilities possessed here for the execution of contracts, are very limited in extent. Springfield is not a Washington, Philadelphia or Chicago. It is inhabited, as all gentlemen are aware, by a, certain class. It is a peculiar city, peopled by a peculiar people; a class who live upon public support; who draw their nourishment from the State, and who have no other means of livelihood. Mr. BROMWELL. Well, said. [Laughter-] Mr. CAMERON. A deliberative body is not in session here all the time to attr, ct mechanics ia search of employment, and its ordinary business is but very small. First class workmen will at all times find good, steadv employment in the great ebtablisbmets of the country; and that class of workmen which, at such a time as this, is attracted to Springfield, is always of an inferior character. That is a d;fficulty for which I think'the printer is not legitimately responsible' The men who come here at such a time are somewhat dissipated in their habits, and indifferent as workmen. I speak of them as a class. Of course, there are honorable exceptions. Mr. HAY. Did not the Committee on Public PrintiDg inform us they could get the work done cheaper here than at Chicago? Mr. CAMERON. That was stated, sir; ut I desire to sa to the entleman from 1204 COiNSTITUTIO;AL OOVTIO TUESDAY, after to dispense with the printing of the newspapers. By dispensing with the newspapers we can have additional care taken with the Globe. The reporters can dispense with one half their fi)rce, cutting down the ex penses of reporting to begin with. The debates will be printed in the Globe, and carried steadily and regularly along, at a reduced outlay. Cemmenciug with the publication of the third volume, members may have such number of copies of tile proceedings in that form from time to time, as they now have of the newspapers. The expense of printing in the Globe form will be much less. We pay now seventy-five cents for the newspaper and Globe together. We will be able, if the resolution is adopted, to have the Glob e printed for a price not exceeding sixty cents per 1,000 ems. I have, Mr. President, no personal in terest in the matter whatever. Whatever the action of the Convention may be, I will be satisfied with it; but I think it important, after havil)gsent abroad the idea that we are having the debates printed in Globe form, not to abandon it. It will be unfortunate to let all the ex pense we have incurred go for little or nothing. I believe, by adopting the resolution I have offered, we will incur no additional outlay. We will get the Globe in better form, and will get more accuracy than in the original way proposed. I therefore ask the concurrence of the Convention in the suggestion I have offered. If this is refused, I trust some better plan may be proposed. The PRESIDENT. The hour of the special order has arrived. RESTRICTION ON DIVORCES. Mr. BROWNING. Mr. President: I wish to present an additional section, to be added to the article on miscellaneous provisions. I will send it to the Secreta ry's desk to have it read. In the remarks I may submit, I will not consume more than five minutes-perhaps not more than two or three. The Secretary read the section offered by Mr. Browning, as follows: No divorce, dissolving the marriage con tract, shall be granted except for adultery, or for causes which render the marriage void ab wniitio; and in no Case Shall it be lawfutil for the party, on account of whose adultery a divorce shall be decreed, to marry again during the lifetime of the husband or wife in whose be half such decree shall have been rendered. Mr. ANDERSON. Mr. President: I rise to a point of order. We had under p consideration the resolution of the gentle mail from Stephenson [Mr. Turner] and the substitute therefor, offered by the gen tlenian from Cook [Mr. Cameron]. There has been no motion to dispose of that. Wh he pritenot gone i nto Committe e of the Whole, and therefore I respectfully submit that the gentleman from Adams [Mr. Browning] is not in order. Mr. BROWNING. Mr. President: I would have been through with all I had to say if I had not been interrupted, but if I am out of order, I will move to postponle the special order. The question being on the motion to postpone the special order, it was agreed to. ed by the gentleman from Cook [Mir. Cameron] as a substitute for another on the subject o f printing. T he PRESIDENT. The point of order is well taken, of course. Mr. BROWNING. Mr. President: I submit cheerfully. The P-RESIDENT. The question is on inserting the resolution of the gentle man from Cook [Mr. Cameron]. Mr. TURNER. Mr. President: I have no disposition to delay the section offered by the gentleman from Adams [Mr. Browning]. I shall not detain the Con vention with anv remarks, further than to say this printing subject is a matter which should be considered and disposed of at once. The-gentleman from Cook [Mr. Caluer. on] has offered a resolution which I think is broader and covers the ground better than mine. We have arrived at that point whel e something must be done. We must either abandon this work, or we must provide for its being carried on and finished up. It is a matter of indifference to the committee -indeed I have no doubt the committee would be greatly relieved to have the Convention take charge of it. Perhaps some members will prefer to have no more printing or reprinting done. But, in my judgment, that is not the course which should be taken. Mr. TRUESDALE. Mr. President: I call for the reading of both resolutions. The Secretary read the resolutions of ferred by Mlr. Turner and the substitute of,ered by Mr. Cameron, therefor, as fol. lows: Resolvred, That the Committee on Printing and Binding be, and they hereby are, author ized to enter into contract with E. L. Merritt & Bro., for printing the debates of this Con vention in Globe form, at not to exceed sixty five cents per one thousand ems for composi tion, which shall be in lieu of all extra charges. [Substitute offered by Mr. Cameron.] .Resolved, That the Committee on Printing and Binding be, and the same hereby are, in structed to dispense with thie further printing of the debates in newspaper form. -Resolved, That said committee be instructed to enter into contract for the printing of the debates in Globe form: Provided the same can be done promptly and properly, at a price not exceeding sixty cenls per one thousand ems. Resolved, That said committee be instructed to enter into contract with the official re porters of this Convention~, for the reporting of the further proceedings of the Conventfont for publication in Globe tbrm alone:. Provided, the same can be done at reduced expense. liesolved, That siaid commrittee be l'uriher instructed to commence the printing of';he debates in Globe form, with the third volume, and thus secure to members, as tkar as prlacti. cable, the same facilities for advising their constituents of the daily proceedings of the Convention, by the printed debates in Globe form, that they have posse'ssed heretolOre through the agency of the Convention.Register. Mr. TRUES3DALE. Mar President: As I understand the matter now, the first two resolutions of the gentleman from CDook [Mr. Cameron] embrace sulbstan' tialWy what is embraced in the single resolution of the gentleman fromn ~tephenson [Mr. Turner] with one exception, and that is with regard to the price. The price proposed by the gentleman from Cook [Mr. Cameron] is sixty cents per thousand emos, and that in the resolutio~n of the gentleman from Stephenson [bMr. Turner] is sixzty-five cents. It is a mnatter of but little importance to me which of the two propositions is ac will not have the ghost of the Sec retary of State revived upon us. The gentleman from McHen ry ss[r. CTurch] is a gentles man of too much intelligence to believe fo r a moment that the con nection of that officer with this matter would in any way have altered its complexion. He would not have prevented a single error, hasten ed the the execution of the work a single day, or saved a single dollar. The expense that has been incurred is owing chiefly, if not wholly, to the im mense amount of discussion we have in dulged in. I believed it is unparalleled in the history of any previous delibera tive body. We did not consider, at first, that the debates of this Convention would more than fill a single volume; but what is the result? When all brought togeth er, after this Convention shall have ad journed, we shall find we have delivered here matter enough to fill three large vol umes of solid type. No one supposed that so much discussion would occur, and consequently, no one, I suppose, is respon sible. The status of the question at the pres ent is this: We have been compelled to discontinue for some weeks past the re production of the debates of the Conven tion, in Globe form, for various reason s. In the first place, by printing both'the Globe and the newspaper, the one in con nection with the other, from the same type, we have found that the newspaper reports would almost be valueless. It will be remembered that the Con vention voted down the proposition to supply daily reports from other papers: that the Convention Register or Journal was supposed to take the place of all other newspapers, and would serve to advise, from day to day, our constituents of our doings. To push the Globe through at the same time, and on the same type, kept the Register back so that our reports got some twelve or fifteen days behind, while by crowding the work of the Globe, many errors of a very vital character crept into it. It was found that thie plat, originally agreed to would not work. Although a very good one in theory, it was a bad one in practice. It was fo;und, also, that the paper on which the Globe had so far been printed. was of a very inferior character, unfitt for use. I must state this, wherever the ceel sure may fall, and I do not suppo~se it belongs all on one side, th~ough I think the S3ecretary of State is as much to blame as any one in forcing such paper upon the printer —it was the only paper that could be obtained from him. In addition to that, Mr. President, in the Globe, so far as prinuted, we have found errors of a vital character, errors fo~r which the printer alone is responsible, and which would of themselves have been almost sufficient to warrant the rejection of the work.:For these reasons we sus pended the~ printing of the C:onventio~n debates in the Globe form, and the first volume, all that is now ill existence, is in a form that we cannot accept of. The proposition which has been offered I respectfullly suggest meets the difficulty fairly, and in the only practicable way that it can be met. We do not desire to incur one dollar of additional expense. We do not desire, as a committee, to go beyond the limit that we originally stated asithe cost of this printing, and to meet t~hat difficulty presented, we propose here CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION TtiESDAY) 120-1 PRINTING AND REPOIRTING TO CONVENTION, AGAIN. Mr. TURNER. Mr. President: I believe the point of order was well taken. We'were corLaid6r'ing the resolution offer DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. cepted or acted upon by this Convention; phases known to man. It resembles, in but I wish to say one word in regard to many particulars, the Schleswig-Holstein the third resolution of the gentleman question, which, it is said, but two men from Cook [Mr. Cameron.] With refer- ever understood, one of whom died and' ence to that, I do not concur. the other was sent to a madhouse. It Now, this Convention has undoubtedly is like Banquo's ghost, that would not made some grave mistake with regard to "down." I wish it could be settled, or the printing, and I think its most im- postponed indefinitely. If it goes over portant mistake was in the first place the recess, perhaps some system can be ordering the printing and publishing of matured by that time that will be useful the debates. But, upon that proposition to the next Constitutional Convention in if I remember rightly, this Convention this State, if not in this, or perhaps, to acted unanimously, and if it was an er- Conventions that may assemble in other ror, it was an error for which all are alike States. If any man will examine the responsible. I presume mistakes have proceedings of any Constitutional Con been committed by the Committee on vention that has been called in this coun Printing. We are willing to acknowl- try for the last twenty years, they will edge that, but there is this fact to be con. find that this printing and reportingp sidered. The Committee on Printing question has always taken up a great deal have made a contract with certain gentle- of time, and has led to a great deal of men to report the debates in full, to fur- difficulty and discussion. nish us with a verbatim report of the Now, sir, my opinion is that the pro proceedings and debates of this Conven- ceedings of this Convention have been tion, and, so far as I understand, they reported and put before us in as good a have performed their part of the contract shape as those of any Convention that fully and to the letter. ever assembled in this country. These Again, it is proposed that we make an gentlemen have done their work, in my additional contract with these reporters-! opinion, as well as any corps of reporters that they report the debates from this in the United States. I have never seen, time on, provided they will do it at a less anywhere, speeches reported more accu rate than they contracted to do it. rately than the speeches here made have Now, in my humble judgment, this is been. doing these gentlemen a very gent in- Those who were in the Convention of justice. The publishing of the debates 1862, know the reportig at that time was and proceedings of this Convention sim. absolutely useless. After the Convention ply in (Globe form, will not lessen their had been in session for a few weeks, we work one iota, if I understand it. plunged into anarchy and total darkness, Mr. MEDILL. Will the gentleman al- and saw nothing of our remarks until low me to explain? By the contract we weeks and weeks after they were made, have with the short hand reporters they while the papers kept coining out a month are obliged to get out their matter very after we adjourned. rapidly, in order that it may be issued in We had, at that time, I think, three the Register of the next morning. reporters. They were all the time hur Hence they have to do all their work, or ried-overwhelmed with business, and nearly all of it, before we adjourn. Now worked to death. I recollect distinctly if we drop the legister?, of course they that one gentleman rose upon this floor, will have more time to write out their who had been incorrectly reported, and notes. in the presence of the Convention, tore Mr. TRUESDALE. Mr. President the report of his remarks to atoms and My understanding is that the same amount trod it under foot. The reports were of matter will be reported. It is to be absolutely useless. published in uGlob)e form, and furnish- Now, I have had some observation in ed to the members for distribution among regard to this matter. It requires men, their constituents. first, of skill, to report, and it requires Now, they may not be required to do secondly, enough of them to do their their work quite as promptly, but where work, or like everything else it will the saving of labor is, I cannot, for the amount to nothing-men cannot do imlife of ine, conceive. They have got to do possibilites. Steneographers cannot both it, as a matter of course, as fast as the make and report members' speeches. speeches are delivered. Now, if gentlemen will reflect one mo Mr. MlEDILL. The difference is in thei ment, and first consider how rapidly gentime at which they will write out their tlemen speak, when they are interested notes. They have longer time in which i upon a question, and then how rapidly it to write them out. At present they have I is taken down, and hurried to the printto do their work in a great hurry. If ing office, and in the dead hour of night the Co(nention R1egister were discontin. set up lby those hard-working printers, ued, the reporters could write out a por- working there until daylight, they will tion of their notes at night. find the good shape in which report, ap Mr. TRUESDALE. At allevents, Mr. pear, amounts to just about as near a President, so far as I understand it, there miracle as anything can. Gentlemen come has been no complaint on the part of the in here, once in a while, take up a paper, Printing Committee or on the part of the and see they are incorrectly represented Convention, of the reporters; and now -lthat some words are misspelled or misI submit that it is right, just and proper, placed, and they complain; but if they that this Convention carry out the con-, would think of all the facts and circumtract that it has made with these repor- stances they would not be surprised if ters originally, and in good faith. i some mistakes did occur. Therefore, so far as this resolution of What reasonable man expects to see a the gentleman from Cook [Mr. Cameron] I paper got up as hurriedly as the daily is concerned, I shall oppose it.! reports of this Convention are, to be Mr. ANTHONY. Mr. President: This I characterized by all of the accuracy of a printing question, it seems to me, will book? I recollect that I printed a book never end. We have had it presented A! once myself, superintended the reading us, it seems to me, in all the various of the proofs myself first, and then paid 302 -MARCn 15, 1870. 1205 a professional proof-reader one hundred dollars to follow after and correct me. How is it that books are printed? Does any man know? An author not only reads the proofs himself, and has a proof reader to follow, but they both take time to do everything. If we want a daily transcript of our proceedings, we must submitto be hurried, and we must con sent to some few inconveniences. We are not reposing here in elegant leisure. We are engaged in transacting public business -in haste and dispatch. Now, I would like to see the proceed ingsof this Convention published as a part of the history of the State of Illi nois. It will be a narrow and penurious piece of business if we do not do it. Who would not regard the views of the founders of this State as of great value? Who would not read with great interest to-day, as we are engaged here in remod eling our Constitution, the remarks of the men who framed the Constitution of 1818? What a loss it is that no trace of the doings of and the actors in the Con vention of 1818 have been preserved. The last man is dead, and all that they said has sunk into oblivion. If they could be produced I would pay a large sum for the debates of those mnen. We may not care anything about what we say here, but in fifty or a hundred years, others may think we said something of use as suggestions. Now, I am struck every time I take up the reports of this State, at seeing how often the judges of our supreme court re fer to the Convention of 1847. I took up a decision, this morning, and which I now hold in my hand, the case of the ill.inois Central railroad company vs. Mc Lean & Co., in which our supreme court refer to the proceedings of the Conven ti-)n of 1847, and trace the history of a portion of the organic law, from its in troduction into the Convention till its final incorporation into the Constitution, together with the remarks of members upon the same, and the various amend. ments. I merely cite this case to show that our supreme court regard the opin. ions of those who frame Constitutions as of some importance. And I think that the views expressed by members upon this floor, are a sort of process or system of education to the whole people of the State. Gentlemen from all parts of this great State are here in the daily exchange of views, and I think that the things which we are learnling will be of use, not only to ourselves, but to our constituents. I am opposed to clutting down the amaounats that we have agreed to pay these reporters. These gentlemen have come here fr'om various parts of the United States. They are professional men. They have agreed to do the work, and having agreed as gentlemen, honorably. and fairly, I would be opposed to seeing a new contract forced upon them now. I am for econo~my as much as any man, but I think it is true economy to do this thing up so that it shall be right. Every other State in this Unionl has published its debates. Look at Ohio, with its two volulmes; Indiana, with its two volumes; the Convention of Michigan of 1867, with its two volumnes; Maryland, with its two volumes; the debates of the Arkansas CDonvention, which I received two weeks 1,ago, and Nlew York;, with its five large volum~es. -The State of Illinois, up to tlfis date, 1206 COXSTITUTIOAL CONINTIO TtxEsday, foer one, am in fayor of the Convention now, as the gentleman from Cook [Mr. Medill] says, settling it before we adjourn. As I understand the resolution of the gentleman from Stephenson [MIr. Turner], it proposes to leave this printing question entirely in the hands of the Printing Committee, to take it away from this Convention, where it has been a source of annoyance from the very first organization of it, and I am in favor of it for that reason. We have selected in this Convention a Committee on Printing, composed of practical printers, men who know more about it than the whole Convention put together; and I say that if we want to divest ourselves of that annoying question, we should leave it, under the resolution of the gentleman from Stephenson [Mr. Turner], in the hands of this Printing Committee. Let them go and make such contracts for our printing purposes as is necessary, in their opinion-knowing, as I believe, more about it than any of us do; and when they have done that, let them report that fact to this Convention, and I believe we will stand up for that committee and indorse their acts. For that reason I want this settled now, and I hope the resolution of the gentleman from Stephenson [Mr. Turner] will pass, in preference to the resolution of the gentleman from Cook [Mr. Cameron], so that they will have exclusive and entire control of the printing question, and the matter be thus disposed of by this Con vention forever. The PRESIDENT. The question is on the motion to postpone. It does not open up the merits of the resolution. The motion was not agreed to. Mr. GOODHUE. Mr. Chairman: I desire to offer a few suggestions in rela tion to this question. I do not propose going back in relation to anything we have done. I propose to cast no reflection upon anybody, upon the reporters or upon any member of this committee. I have the most entire confidence in every member of the Printing Committee, and it seems to me that the only way for us to treat thil matter properly, fairly and with efficieney, is to leave it entirely and abso lutely with that committee. Without anything further being said in relation to it, I trust we all appreciate the difficulties and embarrassments that have surrounded the printers, those that have contracted to do this work for us. I do not propose to go back to say anything in relation to the conditions under or the manner in which this printing has been conducted up to this time. The simple question, and the only question for us to consider now, is, what shall we do in the future? Shall we abandon this question? Shall all this printing be discontinued? Shall we cease to give to the people a report of our doings here? I think it would be unwise after we have progressed to this extent, to drop everything that we have done, to practically annul it and destroy its efficiency. What can we do that will be more satisfactory, that will be wiser! than to trust this committee to do the best they can. under the circumstances? I am in favor of trusting them. I am in favor of re posing confidence in every gentleman of that committee, to dispose of these mat ters as best they can. I believe there is no gentleman upon this floor who is in favor of discontinuing the reports. We hav e alr ead y p rogressed too far to do this. Mir. RICE. Mr. President: I do not desire to consume any time in further debating this question. The majority of the Convention are ready to vote, therefore I move the previous question. The motion for the previous question was agreed to, and the main question was ordered. The PRESIDENT. The question will first be taken on the motion to strike out the resolution of the gentleman from Stephenson and insert the resolution of the, gentleman from Cook [Mr. Cameron]. Whereupon, if it shall prevail, the question will recur upon the adoption of the resolution of the gentleman from Cook. The Secretary read the substitute offered by Mr. Cameron, as follows: IResolv,d, That the Committee on Printing and Binding be, and the.same are hereby instructed to dispense with the further printing of the debates in newspaper form. Resolved, That said committee be instructed to enter into contract for the printing of the debates in Globe form, provided the same can be done promptly and properly, at a price not exceeding sixty cents per one thousand ems. Resolved, That said committee be instructed to enter into contract with lhe official reporters of this Convention, for the reporting .of the further proceedingsof this Convention, for publication in Globe obrm alone, provided the same can be done at reduced expense. -Resolved, That said committee be further instructed to commence the printing of the debates in Globe form, with the third volume, and thus secure to members, as far as practicable, the same facilities for advising their constituents of the daily proceedings of the Convention, by the printed debates in Globe form, that they have possessed heretofore, through the agency of the Convention Register. And the resolution offered by Mr. Turner, as follows: Resolved, That the Committee on Printing and binding be, and are hereby authorized to enter into contract with E. L. Merritt & Bro. for printing the debates of this Convention in Globe form, at not to exceed sixty-five cents per I,000 ems for composition, which shall be in lieu of all extra charges. Mlr. ANTHONY. Mr. President: I will ask my colleague [Mfr. Cameron], if he will not withdraw his resolution, and let a vote be taken upon the resolution of the gentleman from Stephenson [MNr. Turner]. Mir. CAMIERON~. Mr. President: I desire to state that I believe it to be the intention of the Committee upon Printing to ask this Convention to do one of two things, either to give definite instructions or authority, or release them from further service. Mr. TRUESDAL:E. Mr. President. Cannot that question be divided? I simply wish to say that there are two of these re~solutions offered by the gentlemanl fromt Cook [Mr. Camzeron]. One I can indorse, the other I cannot; and, therefore, I would like to have them separated. Mr. HAYES. Mr. President: I think there is no difficulty in obtaining a separate vote upon the third resolution. 3In. TRUEsDALE. Mr. President: The proposition of the gentleman from Stephenson [Mr. Turner], and the gentlemmn fromn Coo~k [Mr. Cameron], are identical, with the exception that in one sixtyfive cents, and in the other sixty cents, is provided for as the lim~It. has never published t he debates of its Conven tions at all, except in the fleeting form of a newspaper. Lookat those of 1862. One can hardly get at them, and they are therefore almost useless. I trust that we will proceed to publish these debates, and finish up what we have begun here, whether important or not. I do not care to see my remarkspublished, but there are gentlemen-gentlemen of large experience in public life-upon this floor, whose opinions I would regard as of importance and value, not only to me in future, but the people of this State. I would like to see this Convention take up this matter in an enlightened manner and settle it, by having these proceedings put on record for all time to come. The State of Illinois is a great State, and ought to do business in the broad-guage style. Mr. MEDILL. Mr. President: The gentleman does not seem to get the point of the question exactly as it is before the Convention. We are about adjourning for nearly a month. The committee insist upon the Convention's directing them what they shall do with these back debates. Does the Convention instruct us to print in Globe form or not? We have two volumes of matter in newspaper form. What shall we do with it? We have one volume in book form-the first volume, which Is spoiled, condemned and rejected. Will the Convention order us to have that volume re-printed, and go on and print the second volume of debates in book form, or will it refuse to do it? We want to employ this month of recess so that when the Convention meets again, we may have the first volume re-produced, If the Conventioy does not want to print the past proceedings in book form, we demand that the Convention shall say so, that we smay have that matter settled and off our minds. We are here for instructions. We propose to dictate nothing. We ask nothing but mere advice. We want to know the will of the Convention in regard to this fragmentary and broken work. Shall we go-on and have it printed in book form, upon the best terms we can make, or shall -we be directed to discontinue the whole thing now? How much the reporters are to be paid hereafter, in case we dispense with the daily Register, is a question for the Convention to say. We care nothing about it as a committee, and have no interest in it except as citizens of the State. If the Convention desires to pay the contract price for the residue of the reporting, so mulch the better for the reporters. They are experts in their science, and highminded gentlemen. I am perfectly willing to see them handsomely paid, if that is the wish of the Convention, but I insist that the Convention shall instruct the committee as to printing the proceedings in book form, and as to the continuance of the- Convention RegisterQ, and do it before the adjournment. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the motion to postpone until the twelfth day of April the consideration of the resolution. Mr. KING. MIr. President: I trust the motion will not prevail. I agree, sir, very fully with the remarks of the gen tleman who last spoke in regard to the vexation of this printing question. It certainly has been about as knotty a qulestion as this Convention ha~ had to determine since we have been In session. IJ CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION TuEsday, 1206 DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. lized to enter into contract - ith E. L. Meritt i& Bro., for printing the debates of this Con vention, in Globe form, at not to exceed 65 cents per 1000 ers for composition, which shall be in lieu of all extra charges. - Mr. CHURCH. Mr. President: If there is to be any resolution passed here at all, I hope it will be either the resoluttion offered by the gentleman from San- gamon [Mr. Hay], or something similar to it, and that this Convention will not T adopt anything that will put it out of their power to act upon the subject in M the shape contemplated by that resolution. The question being on the adoption of the resolution offered by Mr. Turner, a division was ordered. Mr. ROSS. Mr. President: Is it in order to move to lay these resolutions on the table? The PRESIDENT. It is in order. Mr. ROSS. Then I move to lay the resolutions on the table, with a view of t tak ing up the r esolution of the gentle man from Sangamon [Mfr. Hay]. The motion was agr eed t o. S o the resolu tions offered by Mr. Tur ner and Mr. Came ron were laid on the. table. f Mr. HAY. M r. President: I now offer a mm t b y res olution. N hr Th e S ecretary read th e resolution of i ofered by Mr. Hay, as follows: tesolved, That the Committee on Printing be authorized to make such further arrangements in regard to the printing of thi s Con- o vention as they shall d eem mos t advisable. Mr. WENDLING. Yr. President: On that resolution, I move t he p revious ques tion. The motion for the previous questioun was agreed to, and the main question ordered. The question then being on the adop - o tion of the resolution offered b y Mr. Hay, it was agreed to. RESTRICTION ON DIVORCES, AGAIN. [Mr. BROWNING. Mr. Pre sident: I b regard the additional section which Ion submi tted a short time ago, as one of very gr eat importa nce, and I propose to sub- mit a few, a very few words indeed, in explanation of the reasons which induced tm e to offer it.l That within the last ten or twelve years there has been a gre at demoralization of M M Tr society, and an alarming increase of crime, newsape fom. he rsoltio oftheis a melancholy truth, which miust havemgmsltoteqeto asino nforced itself painfulrly up on t he attention confrs mre uthoityand iscetio onof every intelligent and interested obser- TePEIET h oint a thecomitte hantha ofth getleanver of passing events. A great propor-upntetbedenoopntemrt tion of this crime, Mr. President, grows o h o out of' and is connected with, what are ofrcalled "d ome stic infelicities," and these editon o thedehaes. he sbstiutedomestic infelicities are greatly stimulat- atcei h osiuin g t o e t o t ed, if not e ntirely occassioned, by the fapoin. Th orgina reoluton oes ot;cilities offered for getting divorces. The ntitn,a eakd oidlei case with whi ch t he m arria ge tie may be dissolved is, I believe, the most active anda fruitful cause of crime now at work; and, thin th Conenton wuldbe stisiedunless some restraints are imposed, which Ihoetathsetowilbprne sthall tend to res tore the old-time sauesdThness of the family relation, the entire fr a me-work of our social organization may be disrupted. It is not proposed t o put any limitationsp upon the power of sepa rating parties who find it impossible to live as happily together as INhy would apart. Divorces I from bed a nd board may stil be granted, just and equitable division of property great i M.ue, smad e, and im propor interference with su explach other p revented; but the marriage e e should ha ve a dditional protection of Mr. HAYES. Mr. President: There is another difference. One of the resolu tionsof the gentleman from Cook [Mr. Came r on], autho rizes the discontin uance of the daily publication of the debates — a very material difference. The PRESIDENT. These remarks are in the nature of debate, and not in order. The Chair will decide the queswhen the proper time arrives. The question is on the motion to strike out and insert. Mr. CAMERON. Mr. President: I call for the yeas and nays. The PRESIDENT. The yeas and nays are ordered. Mr. WELLS. Mr. President: Is it competent to divide now? The PRESIDENT. It may be divided and the motion to strike out be first put. Mr. HAYES. Mr. President: Are we under the operation of the previous question? The PRESIDENT. We are. Mr. HAY. Mr. President: I would like to offer a substitute for both the resolutions proposed, which I think would be better. I will read for information: It is that the Committee on Printing be authorised to make such further arrangements in regard to printing as they shall deem most advisable. Mr. WAIT. Mr. President: I believe the question is not understood correctly. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the motion to-strike out the resoluution of the gentleman from Stephenson [Mr. Turner], and insert the resolutions offered by the gentleman from Cook [Mr. Cameron]. Mr. MEDILL. Mr. President: I desire that the Chair and Convention shall let me explain the difference between these two resolutions. ["Hear him," I'hear him,"] The difference between the two proposition3 is this: That of the gentleman from Stephenson [Mr. Turner] simply gives the committee power to go on and print the proceedings of the Convention in Globe form. The resolution offered by my colleagae [Mr. Cameron] gives the committee power to do that and also to discontinue publishing the proceedings in newspaper form. t'he resolution ouf the gentleman from Cook ['Ir. Cameron] confers more authority and discretion on the committee than that of the gentleman from Stephenson [Mr. Turner]. It is important that the committee be instructed as to the continuance of the Register edition of the debates. The substitute gives the committee instructions on that point. The original resolution does not; nor does it permit the committee to dies. pense with that edition. ;~3Mr. ANTIMONY. Mr. President: I think the Conv~ention would be satisfied with the proposition made by the gentleman from Sangamen [M~r. Hay.] I will read it: .Resolvned, That the Committee on Printing be authorized to make such further arrangements in regard to the printing of this Convention as they shall deem most advisable. Mr. ANTHONY. That seems to me to cover everything the Printing Comnmittee want} and all we want. The Secretary read the resolution, offered by Mr. Turner, as follows: .Resolved, That the Committee on Printi{~ and Binding be and they hereby are author thrown aroun it hol d it; should be made more sacred and enduring, and not allowed to be dissolved except for the gravest rea sons. We are about to adjourn for a few weeks, that the work which we have done, and which we propose to do, may be submitted to the people for their ex amination and criticism; and I trust that the moral sense of the people, as well as their instincts of self political preservationi, will impel them to impress upon their delegates when they return here to resume their work, the importance and necessity of supporting this or some equivalent proposition. I desire it to go with the other proposi tions of the Convention before the peo ple, that their sense, to the extent that it may be seen and discussed by them, may be made known before we re-assemble. Mr. RICE. Mr. President: Without intending to occupy mu6h of the time of the Convention, I wish to add my approv al to the proposition offered by the gen tleman from Adams [Mr. Browning], as an additional section to the new Consti tution, and to express the hope that it may be adopted, believing as I do that it proposes to remedy a class of evils that is growing most rapidly in this country. No careful observer of the times can fail to have observed the increasing looseness of ideas among a large class of our people, in respect to the sacredness, value and inviolability of family and do mestic ties. We may project systems of education and systems of moral instruc tion, we may tax ourselves and posterity for the education of coming generations Mr. WRIGHT. Mr. President: I rise to a point of order. What is the question before the Convention? Mr. BROWNING. Mr. President: There is no question before the Convention. I offered an additional section to the "miscellaneous" article, desiring it to be laid upon the table and printed, to be considered with that article when it shall be reached. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the motion that the proposed section be printed and laid upon the table to be considered in connection with the miscellaneous article. Mr. RICE. Mr. President: I would inquire if I am out of order in addressing msyself to the question as it now stands? The PRESID:ELNT. The motion to lay upon the table does not open the merits of the proposition. Mr. BROWNING. It is offered as an additional section to the "miscellaneous' article in the Constitution. Mr. RICE. I so understood it. I did not intenld, as I remarked, to indulge in any extended debate, but to express my approbation of the proposition, and to invite the attention of delegates to it. I hope that the section will be printed a~nd go before the public. Ifthere is any objection to my going any further I understand there is an objection, and I therefore decline speaking. The PRESIDENT. The point of order submitted by the gentleman from Mason [Mr. Wpright] is well taken. The question before the Convention does not invrolve the merits of the proposition. Mr. HAINES, of Lake. I wish to A/dd my concurrenec in what has been sniff by t t i r s e t s MITAROH 15, 1870. 120o 1208 ("OSTITUTIOAL OONNTION TUESDAY, REPORT OF THIE SELECT COMMITTEE ON GRAND JUDICIAL DISTRICTS. The select committee, who were instructed by resolution to report the territorial area of the three grand judicial districts, upon the rule of equality of population, as nearly as county boundaries will permit; and were also instructed to report seven grand districts, of as nearly equal population as practicable, without dividing counties, have attended to those duties, and beg leave to submit the following report: The first resolution of instructions under which they acted, required them to provide for sufficient population in the northern grand division to entitle it to elect three supremne judges; in the middle grand division for two supreme judges, and in the southern grand division for two supreme judges. In order to equalize the present grand divisions, it was found necessary to detach three counties from the northern grand division, and attach them to the middle division, viz: Iroquois, Livingston and Tazewell; and to detach one tier of counties from the middle division, and attach them to the southern grand division. These changes equalized the population of the grand divisions very accurately, as will be seen by the enumeration of counties assigned to each division. The committee found it impossible to make a more equal apportionment, both as to grand and single districts than is set forth in the subjoined list of counties. The following is the apportionment agreed upon: The first grand division to consist of the counties of Alexander, Bond, Calhoun, Clay, Clinton, Crawford, Edwards, Effingham, Fayette, Franklin, Gallatin, Hamilton, Hardin, Jackson, Jasper, Jefferson, Jersey, Johnson, Lawrence, Madison, Marion, Massac, Monroe, Perry, Pope, Pulaski, Randolph, Richland, Saline, St. Clair, Union, Wabash, Washington, Wayne, White, Williamson, Clark, Cumberland, Greene, Macoupin, Montgomery and Shelby, with a population of 609,722. The second grand division to consist of the counties of Adams, Brown, Cass, Champaign, Christian, Coles, DeWitt, Douglas, Edgar, Ford, Fulton, Hancock, Logan, Macon, {Ma son, McDonough, McLean, Mlenard, Morgan, Moultrie, Piatt, Pike, Sangamron, Schuyler, oScott, Vermilion, Iroquis, Livingston and Tazewell, with a population of 616,783. The third grand division to consist of the counties of Boone, Bureau, Carroll, Cook, DeKalb, DuPage, Grundy, Henderson, Henry, JoDaviess, Kane, Kankakee, Kendall, Knox, Lake, LaSalle, Lee, Marshall, Mcllenry, Mercer, Ogle, Peoria, Putnam, Rock Island, Stark, Stcphenson, Warren, Whiteside, Will, Winnebago and Woodford, with a population of 916,170. In the division of the State into seven election districts for the election of seven supreme iudges in separate districts, your committee have divided the first grand division into two districts, the second grand division into two, and the third grand division into three districts, as nearly equal in population as practicable, as follows: The first district to consist of the counties of St. Clair, Washington, Jefferson, Waavne, Edwards, Wabash, White, Hamilton, Franklin, Perry, Randolph. Monroe, Jackson, Williamson, Saline, Gallatin, Hardin, Pope, Union, Johnson, Alexander, Pulaski and Massac, with a population of 300,107. With reference to the question of attaching Clinton county to the first district or to the district next north of it, the committee wmre divided.1 The second district to consist of the counrt ties of Madison, (Clinton,) Bond, Mario n t Clay, Richland, Lawrence, Crawford, Jasper, Effingham, Fayette, Montgomery, Macoupin, t.Shelby, Cumberland, Clark, Greene, Jersecy and,Calhoun, with a population of 309,60 M:I The third district to consist of the counties o f Sangamon, Christian, Macon, Logan, DeWitt, Piat~, Douglas, Champaign, Vermilion, TeMcLean, Livingston, Ford, Iroquois, Coles c Edgfar and Mtoultrie, with a population of 31(~,75.' The fourth district to consist of the counties of Fulton, MeDonough, Hancock, Schuyler, Brown, Adams, Pike, Mason, Monroe Morgan, Cass, Scott and Tazewell, with a population of 300,508. The fifth district to consist of the counties of Knox, Warren, Henderson, Mercer, Henry, Stark, Peoria, La Salle, Marshall, Putnam, Bureau, Grundy and Woodford, containing a population of 305,003 The sixth district to consist of the counties of Whiteside, Carroll, Jo Davies, Stephenson, Winnebago, Boone, McHenry, Kane, Kendall, De Kalb, Lee, Ogle and Rock Island, with a population of 304,350. The seventh district to consist of the coun. tics of Lake, Cook, Will, Kankakee and Du Page, with a population of 306,811. All of which is respectfully submitted. (Signed) JOSEPH MIEDILL, L. S. CHURCH, WM. P. PEIRCE, AI. HAY, L. W. Ross, GE-). W. WALL, H. P. BUXTON, JOHN SCHOLFIELD. The PRESIDENT. The report will lie on the table, and be printed under the stanidingf resolution. the gentleman from Adams [Mr. B r ow n. ing] upon this subject. I concur most heartily that some remedy is called for from a akn e o the law making power of the ourn try in regard to this subject. The PRESIDENT. The Chair will remind t he gentleman that th e proposition is not debatable. Mr. HAINES, of Lake. I do not propose to speakyupon the merits. Mr. RICE. I rise to a point of order. If I am not permitted to speak upon the question, I object to any other gentleman doing so. The Chair has decided the question is not debatable, but I think the gentleman from Lake [Mr. Haines] is proceeding to debate the question, and to state its merits to the Convention. The PRESIDENT. The point of order is well taken. The gentleman is discussing the merits of the question. Mr. HAINES, of Lake. The gentleman does not say that he understands that I am discussing the merits, but he says I am going to proceed to the merits. I am not going to do any such a thing. The PRESIDENT. The gentleman will proceed in order. Mr. HAINES, of Lake. On the question to print! [Laughter.] I think the motion should be sustained, because the people want to know what we are doing. This Convention wants to advertise itself to some extent during the recess, and, having-that in view, this is a good question, than which we could not entertain a more proper one for that purpose, if we want to show the people that we have some idea of morality as spoken of. Congress has advertised itself very extensively of late, upon this subject, in regarli to a territory of this government, and now we ought not to be outdone in that regard. I offer the following as a substitute to go with the gentleman's proposition. Mr. BAYNE. Mr. President: I rise to a privileged question. I believe I offered the first resolution on the subject myselfof divorces for no other cause but adultery, and I hope the gentleman from Lake [Mr. Haines] does not propose to steal all my thunder. [Laughter.] The Secretary read the substitute offered by Mr. Haines, of Lake, as follows: Resolved, That divorces shall never be -,ranted for any cause whatever. Mr. HAINES, of Lake. I ask the gentleman from Adams [Mr. Browning] to accept it as a substitute. The PRESIDENT. The motion is a motion to lay upon the table. The amendment to the proposition cannot be entertained. Mr. CARY. I call for a division of the question. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the motion to lay the proposition of the gentleman from _&damls [M~r.:Browning] upon the table for future consideration. The motion was agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the motion to print. The motion was agreed to. REPORT OF COMMITTEE ON. GRAND JUDI CIAL DISTRICTS. M,r. MEDILL. Mr. President: I desire to offer the report of the Committee on the Grand Judicial Districts. The Secretarv read the report, as follows:: CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION TU.ESDAY, 1208 ORDER OF BUSINESS. 1VIr. 3(IcCOY. 31r. President: The special order of this day, f(-)r eleven o'clock,isthereport of the Committee on State, County and Municipal Indebt. edness. On the eighth of this month it as ni-,tde a special order for this morniDg. ll.iy OF E —NrPLOYES. Mr. HKINES, of Lake. 31r. President: Before that motion is acted o.D, I have a resolution which I want to offer as a matter of business. The Secretary read the resolution offered I)y Mr. I-laines, of Lake, as follows: -Resolved, That the President of this Convention certify to the Auditor of Public Accounts the time of S. B. Wilder, H. D. Craine, and Charles Lightfoot, firemen of this Coiavent',on, and W. F. Wilton, mail carrier, and the luditor be instructed to draw his warrant -upon the Treasurer in favor of each of the tbove named for the amount that may be found to be due them respectively. Mr. HAINES, of Lake. Mr. President: I woulcl add J. W. L-ane, stenographer's messenger. He is omitted in the resolution. It merel'y provides that the President may certify. ,-Ir. ROSS. I suggest it to -o to the Committee on Accounts. Mr. MOORE. Mr. President: The committee have a report which provides for the very thing this resolution contemplates. Mr. HAINES, of Lake. Is,.-the report ready? Mr. MOORE. Yes, sir. Mr. HAINES, of Lake. Then I withdraw my resolution. POST —,NIASTER D'URING RECESS. Mr. ROBINSON. Mr. President ,With the permission of the -entleman from Whiteside [Mr. 3lcCoy], I would like to introduce a resolution for adoption. The Secretary read the resolution offered b Mr. Robinson. as follows: y Be.,olve,d., That the postmaster and his assistant be instructed to remain here one week after the, adjournment of the Convention, on the seventeenth instant,,tnd,tttend to the duties of postmaster. Mr. ROBINSON. Mr. President would state the reasons I have had for introducin- that resolution. Mail will be coming here to delegates for some days after adjournment, and, in order that it may be forwarded to them at their re,-Pective homes, I suggest that the Postmaster and his assistant be instructed to remain here for that purpose. - Mr. WASIIBURN. Mr. President: I think one week's time is unnecessarily long. The Post-master informed me yes ARH 15, 1870. 1)E13ATES AND PflOOFDJNGS. 120w - The question is upon the resolution of r The Secretary read the reounution, as follows: i Resol)ed. That the Auditor draw his wardrant for the several policemen, mail carriers and firemen of this Cornvetion, in full, for their services from December 17th, 1969, to rMarch 17th, 1870, the sum of $546; that aft er d educting the amounts already paid, he be now authorized to pay the balance of said sum to each of them. The resolution was agreed to. 1 The question being oil concurring with , the report of the committeei Mr. HAINES, of Cook. Mr. Presi7 dent: It the portion of the report I object to can be separated, I ask for a divis ion of the question. The question then being on concurring in the second recommendation of the . committee, it was read by the Secretary, ; as follows. To the resolution putting this hall in charge of the doorkeeper and policeman during the adjournment, your committee report the same back to the Convention, and ask that it be rejected, as it will involve the State in an additional expense of about five hundred dol lars; and in lieu thereof this committee would suggest, that the Convention instruct the Secretary of State to take charge of this hall and lock it up, without expense to the State. Mr. BROWNING. Mr. President: I trust that the Convention will not con cur with the committee in that recom men(dation. If this hall is to be locked up until we return, it will breed a pesti lence when we get back, and it will be impossible for us to stay here with safety ! to the health of the members. It is in a very foul condition now, and it is vitally important that during the recess the car pet shall be taken up anid beaten and the hall thoroughly cleansed. It may cost some little, but the cost, in comparison to the benefits, will be very inctjsiderable. There should also be some one to take charge of the desks. Mr. KING. Mr. President: Is there not now a law in force that requires the Secretary of State to keep this hall in proper order? MAr. BROWNING. Mr. President: I know nothing about that. We do not want new furniture, carpets, upholstery, etc., but some one or two strong, active young men who will take up the carpets, clean them and put them down. It swill cost the State less to do this than to put it in the hands of the Secretary of 3t-ate with instructions to him to have it donce. I think the best way will be to leave it in charge of our own officers.. Mir. BROMWELL. It is important that the windows should be openedl to let out the vitiated air, and cleanse the hall ofthe effluvium that gathers in such plan. ces. Mr. BROWNING. Yes, and there must be some one here at all times, to open the windows, and close them when storms arise. Mr. K1ING. I am in favor of the report of this committee. I cannot for a moment presume that the majority of this CoXnvention swill think it necessary to keep these door keepers and policemen here from the time we adjourns at six dollars per day, simply to keep this hall in repair. That can be dispensed with by placing it in care of the Secretary of State (who has plenty of men hired all the time in the pay of the Sta,e), With instructions to take up theme!ar port for the colored man down below "Gen." Jackson? Mr. MOORE We have provided for him. The report is as follows: The Committee on the Accounts and Expenditures of this Convention, to whom were referred several reports and resolutions have taken them into consid eration, and instruct me to make the fol lowing report thereon: In answer to the resolution in regard to the amount due to each policeman, mail carrier and fireman for their services, that there will be due each of them from December 17th, 1869, to March 17th, 1870, inclusive, ninetyoue days at $6.00 per day, $546. Of this amount they, or a parlof them. have been paid by the Auditor the sum of $400 each, leaving the sum of $146 yet due to each of them, and that they recommend the passage by the Conven tion of a resotlunion submitted herewith. To the resolution putting this hall in charge ot the doorkeeper and policeman during the adjournment, your committee report the same back to the Convention, and ask that it be rejected, as it will involve the State in an additional expense of about $500, and in lieu thereof this committee would suggest that the Convention instruct the Secretary of State to take charge of this hall, and lock it up without expense to the State. To the resolution instructing the Secretaries of this Convention to remain for one week d uring t he r ecess, f or the purpo se of perfecting reports of the Committee of the Whole, etc., your committee find that the same is entirely unnecessary, and would cost the State ifrom one to three hundred dollars. They therefore report said resolution back to the Convention and ask th lt it be rejected. That to the resolution referred to this committee instructing them to inquire into the expediency of dispensing with some of the e mployes of this Convention, they would respectiully report, that in the opinion of this committee all the services required by this Convention can be performed tby a less number of employes and officers than they now have. Yet your committee have not been able to devise any plan by which a reduction can be made that will be satisfactory to the Convention, or to your committee. They therefore make no recommendation in the premises excepting to state that Lightfi)ot a fireman for this Convention, receiving $6 per day, has asked this committee to bave his pay certified to the seventeenth of March, and that he be then discharged from further attendance upon this Convention upon his own request. Your committee to whom was referred two resolutions in regard to printing and reportnlug of the proceedings of this Convention have instructed me to report the same back to the Convention, and ask that they be discharged from the further consideration of the same. Your committee would further report that they have allowed Horace S. Leland & Co., in addition to the $75 already paid them the further sum of $50, balance. due them as rent for room of Committee on Judiciary,and the sum of $21 as room rent for Committee on Executive, in X11l Ior each room. In all of which they ask the concurrence of the Convention. oThe PRESIDENT. The question is rupon the resoluti(ns reported for adopttion by the Committee on Accounts and Expenditures of the Convention. Mr. HAINES, of Cook. Mr. President: As I recollect the report as it was made, the committee do not concur ia some rewsolution which was referred to them, in reference to the Secretary remaining here to perfect certain reports that the committee has acted upon, and forward them to the mcmbers. It seems to me that one of the objects for which The PRESIDENT. The Chair will state that the committee has reported a resolution for-adoption, which is before the Convention. The committee also ask concurrence with the report. The ques-, tions will be put in their order. STATE, COUNTY ATD MUNICIPAL INDEBT EDNESS. Mr. IlcCOY. Mr. President: The spec al order of the day, before the Comr ieittee of the Whole, is the report of the Committee on State, County and Municipal Ijidel:)tedness, that had been fixed fo)r an earlier day, but was postponed, inas. much as the report on the judiciary article was underconisideratiou. The report on State, County and Municipai Indebtedness, was made the special order of the day for this ten and a half o'clock A, M., and inasmuch as the Convention has now under consideration the rep,rt on revenue, and are desirous of cogmpleting it ill Committee of the Whole, I move that the further consideration of the report of the Committee upon State, County and Muinic:~pal Indebtedness be postponed until April 14th, at half past ten'o'clock A. M. The motion was agreed to. OtDER C OF BUSINESS. Mir. HAY. Mr. President. When the Con ventl(,n ad~jo)urned upon yesterday evening it had been in Committee of the Whole upon the revenue article. The report malde by the select committee upon the judiciary grand divisions of the State, has been presented this mnorIing, and it only nieeds the action of the Convention on that subject to complete the judiciary article. I understand it to be the wish of the Convention to complete that article, as reported from the Committee of the Whltie, before it takes the recess; and in order to) enable the Convention to do that, I move the postponement of the consideration of' the revenue article and that we take up the judiciary article. I do Ilot know that a motion to postpone is necessary. The PRESIDENT. That has been postponed without any action. 'REPORT OF COUITTFE ON ACCOUNTS AND EXPENDITURES Mr. MOORE. Mr. President: Will the gentleman from Sangamon withdraw his motion for a momen-t? I have a report that I wish to snake. Mr. HAY. I give way for that purpose. Mr. MOORE. Mr. President: I will read the report. Mr. GAMBLE. Mr President I wouw tak if there is any provision in that re-, 303 1 F t 8 MAI?.Clf 15, 1870. DE]BATES AND PROCIEDIN(4S. A 1209 terday he was willing to stay, without any order of the Conveiitioi2, durip-o, the remainder of this week, and send forward the mail at the request of the members. I think that would be ai-nply sufficient, and an order in the case would be unneees,3ary. Mr. ROSS. Mr. President: I was goiing to suggest that the one armed soldier boy [W. F. Wilton], remain, atid have charge of the postoffice. I think that would be very appropriate, as he has been very attentive and accommodating. Mr. ROBINSON. Mr. President: I move to include him. Mr. ROSS. I move to insert his name in place of all others. His iiame is Wm. F. Wilton. The motion was agreed to. Ihe PRESIDEN'F. The question is on the adoption of the resolution, as amei,ded. The resolution, as amended, was agreed to. 1210 ()1OXSTJTUTIONAL COXYENTIO TUESDAY, pets, and clean this hall thoroughly, as I believe it needs cleaning. But I am ut- t terly opposed to placing these men here c for that purpose. The Secretary of State pays men to do thi s kind of work. He will retain the k eys, and he can have this very cleaniMg atte nded t o that we are attempting to o provide for by this re solution. I am opposed to any such an outrage- c ous propos ition. We would be doing wrong to ours elves and to our people to allow such an expense to be going on - here. We passed a resolution cutting off the rer diem of these clerks and our own c ompensation, a nd now gentlemen come in he re with a proposition to allow these c door-kee per s and policemen, who, in my op inion, hav e n ever rendered a great r deal of s ervic e to this Convention, to remain here at the expense of the State for the M ext thirty days. I say it would be < an outrage upon ourselves and upon the, people, and 1 h ope the repor t o f the corn mittee will be c-ncurred in. i The PRESIDENT. The question is upon concurrence in the report. i Mr. BROMWELL. Mr. President: I suppose an amendment is in order. The PRESIDENT. It is a simple question of concurrence, and not amendable. ~ If the Convention should concur, any: proposition could then be moved. Mr. BROUMWELL. It would be in order then, I suppose, for the chairman of the committee to modify the resolu ] tioe so as to instruct the Secretary of State to attend to the haLl and keep it ventilated. Mr. MOORE. Mr. President: The committee had a number of these resolutions that were conflicting, and we thought we would adopt the course that seemed to be the most economical, and yet carry out the suggestions of the gentleman from Adams [Mr. Browning]. This whole hall can be cleaned by two negroes, in from one to two days, without any great expense. We looked upon leaving this hall in the care of policemen, as an attempt to fasten upon the treasury of the State a great expense. The Convention has already modified a portion of the report by adopting a reso lution that the mail carrier (Wilton) take charge of the post-office during our recess. The Secretary will undoubtedly put the remainder of the room in his control if he wants it. Mr. ROSS. Mr. President. I would ask the gentleman if he has any assur ance that the lSecretary would perform this work? Mr. MOORE. it is his duty to do it by law. The PRESIDENT. The Chair wfill state to the gentleman from Coles [Mr. Bromwell] that if the Convention should concur with this recommendation, his proposition of instruction to the Secreta ryr will be in order, of course. The ques tion is upon concurrence in the second recommendation. The recommendation was agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon concurrence in the third recommen dation. The Secretary will read. The Secretary read the third recom mendation, as follows: To the resolution instructing the Secretaries of this Convention to- remain for one week, daring the recess, for the puirpose of perfect:Lug reports of Committee onhe Whole, etc., your committee find that the same is entirely unnecessary, and would cost the State from one to two hundred dollars; they therefore report said resolution hack to the Convention and ask that it be rejected. Mr. HAINES, of Cook. Mr. Presidenjt: As I remember now, there was a resolution offered this morning, which covers the question and which the Convention postponed; therefore I make no objection to the report. The PRESIDENR. The question is upon concurrence with the committee in its recommendation. The recommendation was agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the concurrence with the fourth recommendation of the committee. The Secretary read the fourth recommentdation, as follows: That to the resolution referred to this committee, instructing them to inquire into the exped ien cy of dispensing wit h some of the employees of th is Convention, t hey wou ld respectfully report, that in the opinion of this committee, all the services required by this Convention can be perfor med by a l ess number of employees and officers than they now have. Ye t your committee have not be en able to devis e an y plan by which a reduction can be made that will be satisfactory to the Convention, or to your committee; they, therefore, make no re c omm enda tion in the pre mises, excep t ing to stat e that Lightfoot, a fireiman for this Convention, receiving $6 per day, has asked this committee to ha ve his pay certified to the 17th day of March, and that he be di scharged from further attendance upon this Conve ntion, upon his own request. Mr. CCROSS. Would a mo tion be in order to refer that report to a committee, with instructions to re port? The PRESIDENT. It may be referred with instructions. Mr. CROSS I move it be r eferred back to the committee, with in structions to report who of the employees of this Convention can be dispensed wi th. They say in their r eport some of the m ought to be. If the committe e c annot agre e upon a majority report that some should be dispensed with, they can make at least a minority report that we can a ct up on. Mr. MOORE. Mr. Pr esident: Upon that part of the report it will be necessa ry that the re b e a divisi on of t he quest ion, bec ause Mr. Lightfoot wants his pay passed upon at this time, and requests to be discharged. I would ask that the Convention sustain that part of the report. The PRESIDENTr. The Chair will divide the question, with the conlsenlt of the gentleman from Winnebago [Mr. Cro3ss]. Mr. CROSS. I have no objection to that. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the motion to commit the recommendation of the committee back to the committee, with instrucetions, with the exceeption of the portion relating to Mr. Lightfoot. The motion was agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the concurrence with the recommendation that Mr. Lightfoxot be discharg have instructed me to report the same back to the Convention, and ask tha t thev be discha rge d from the further ction sideratn of the same. The recommendation-was agreed to. The Secretary read the sixth recommendation, as follows: Your committee would further report that thev have allowed Horace S. Leland & Co., in addition to the seventy-five dollars already paid themn, the further sum of fiftty dollars, balance due them as rent tor room of Cormmittee on Judiciary, and the sum of twentyone dollars, as room rent for Committee on Executive. in full for each room. In all of which they ask the concurrence of the Convention. The recommendation was agreed to. CLEANING OF' HALL. Mr. BROMWELL. I will offer the fbllowing resolution, in reference to cleaning the hall. The Secretary read the resolution offered by Mr. Bromwell, as follows: Resolved, That the Secretary of State be requested to cause the hall to be cleansed and kept ventilated during the recess of this Convention, and that he cause the carpets to be taken up, cleaned and replaced. The resolution was agreed to. VENTILATION OF HALL. Mr. WRIGHT. Mr. P resident: Ihave a resolution which I wish to offer. The Secretary read the resolution offered by Mr. Wright, as follows: Resolved, That during the recess of this Convention, the Secretary of State is requested to have ventilators placed upon the roof over the hall of the hou se o f represe ntatives. Mr. WRIGHT. Mr. President: I have ascertained t hat the se ventilating a pertures in the ceiling of this room only co n. duct the f oul air up into a kind of garret. There is a certain kind of ti n ventilator that can be place d upon the roof, that will conduct the fou l air int o the outer atmosphere, and lea ve that within the r o om p u re; and I desire that this imp rovement be made durii g the recess. Mr. TRUESDALE. Mr. President: I am opposed to the adoption of that resolution. I think that that sort of ventilation will amount to nothing. We will be incurrirg a useless and unnecessary expense. The arrangement pro posed oy the gentleman from Mason [Mr. W~right] will be of no earthly benefit in ventilating the hall. If we wish to put ventilators in the hall to any purpose, we must put them in the floor, so that the bad air can get out. It will never get out through any open ings in the roof. Mr. WENDLING. Mr. President: I hope we will concur in the resolution of the gentleman from Mason [Mr. Wright]. If by a slight expenditure of money so important an object can be secured, we should not hesitate to make that expen diture. Every gentleman feels the great want of ventilation in the hall. Our health imperatively demands some arrangement of the kind proposed. Mr. TRUESDALE. Mr President: I think if any plan is adopted for the bet ter ventilating of this hall, it should be referred to some committee, who will make a better examination. I think my self, that if any such measures are adopt ed, the object will be better effected by placing foul air ducts about the base of the hall. If we do that we shall find that we have accomplished something that will prove beneficial. r 8 CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION T-LTESDAY, 1210 ed. The recommendation was agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the concurrence with the I fifth recommendation. The Secretary read the fifth recommendation, as follows: Yo-ir committee, to whom was referred two rei3olutions in regard to printing and reporting of the proceedings_ of this Convention, MARCH 15 80 EAE X RCE1G.11 ORDER OF BUSINESS. Mr. WENDLING. I move that the Convention do now adjourn to April twelfth. Mr. BROWNING. Mr. President: I hope the gentleman will withdraw that motion. It would be improper to adjourn now. It would place us in an ugly position, for we are about to draw our pay until Thursday, and we can do a great deal of work to-day and tomorrow. Mr. WENDLING. Mr. President: I had not taken into consideration the fact that we voted ourselves pay until Thursday. It makes little difference, for though we are drawing pay now, we are not earning it. I will, however, at the request of my friend from Adams [Mr. Browning], withdraw my motion. Mr. HAY. Mr. President: I move that the Convention resolve itself into Comrnittee of the Whole on the judiciary article. The PRESIDENT. Does the gentleman desire to cover the report of the special committee? Mr. HAY. Yes, sir. Mr. CHURCH. It is now so near the time of adjournment, that it would be better to take our recess now. Mr. ANDERSON. I then move, sir, to lay the motion on the table. The motion was agreed- to. QUESTION OF PRIVILEGE. Mr. WAIT. Mr. President: In looking over the debates as published in the Register of the 14th instant, I find a typographical error, which I desire not to pass unnoticed The error is only a substitution of a word for the one that I did use The substituted word makes me indorse the democratic party. In my remarks on that occasion I re ferred to the gentleman from Shelby [Mr. Wendling], and mentioned him as being an out and out democrat. Further down in the same remarks, I am made to say that I respected the gentleman for be longing to "a sound" party. Now, sir, I did not intend to pass any judgment upon the democratic party, either as to its soundness or unsoundness. What I did say, was that I respected the gentleman for belonging "to some" party. I had no occasion to speak of the merits of the party to which the gentlenman belor-ged, and did not do so. I also find, further down il the same remarks, two other errors, which are so patent that it is not necessary to mention them here, and I will wait for their correction in the Globe. Mr. BROMWELL. Mr. President: This house is said to belong to Sangamon county. They may object t o ventilatio g it. The y ml ay want to have all the gas kept in. Mr. MOORE. Mr. President: This house, as I understand it, belongs to the county of Sangamon. We could not in terfere with its arrangements, without having scien:itific mlen examine it, aid see what the effect would be of cutting holes through the roof. Then we would want to have a body of physicians to decide whether that would do anything towards the ventilating of the room. As I understand the theory of ventilation, it is to ventilate, from below, just above the floor. Foul air descends and remains near the floor until carried off in some manlier. These ventilators could not be run up through the roof for less than five hun dred doLllars. I will say that much as an expert. Perhaps the injury to the roof would be as much more; but it ought not to ore done in so hasty a manner. Scientific anid medical men, and the owners of this house should all be consulted before we attempt anything of the kind. [Laughter]. I hope this resolution will not be adopted. Mr. TINCHER. Mr. President: I move that the resolution be referred to the Committee on the Accounts and Expeinditures of this Convention. Mr. ANDERSON. Mr. President: I offer the following resolution, to be referred also to the same committee at the same time. The Secretary read the resolution of fered by Mr. Anderson, as follows: Besolved, That a special committee be appointed to investigate whether foul air goes uD or down. [Laughter]. T.he PRESIDENT. The question is on the motion of the gentleman from Vermilion [Mr. Tincber], that the resolution of the gentleman from Mason [Mr. Wright] be referred to the Committee on Acc,,unts and Expenditures. The motion was agreed to. Mr. HAY. I move that the Convention do now adjourn. The motion was agreed to. So the Convention (at twelve o'clock and thirteen minutes) adjourned. JUDICIAL DEPARTMENT. Mr. TURNER. Mr President: I move that the Convention now resolve itself into Committee of the Whole, for the consideration of the Judiciary Article. The motion was agreed. So the Convention, as in the Committee of the Whole (Mr. Cary in the chair), resumed the consideration of the report of the Committee on Judiciary. AFTERNOON SESSION. TUESDAY, March 15, 1870. The Convention met at two o'clock, P. M., and was called to order by the President. Mr. HAINES, of Lake, Mr. President: This morning a resolution passed, instructing the Committee on Printing to enter into a contract fo,r printing our debates, on such terms as they may think proper. The resolution was passed hastily, and I now move a reconsideration of the vote by which that resolution passed. I do it for this reason: It delegates the power which this Convention has to make that contract, and accordiigly the Con vention would have no further control of it. As far as I am concerned, I do not wish to appear on the record as concurring in any such thing. I desire to add the words, "with the approval of this Convention,"-after the contract has been made,-and I therefore move a reconsideration. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the motion of the gentleman from Lake [Mr. Haines], to recontsider the vote by which the Coiivention this morning instructed the Committee on Printing. Mr. McDOWELL. Mr. President: I think it better to postpone the subject. until it can be considered by a full Convention. Mr. ANDERSON. Mr. President: Is a motion to lay upon the table the motion of the gentleman from Lake [Mr. Haines], in order? b The PRESIDENT. It is. GRAND DIVISIONS. The Cler k read the amendment offered by Mr. Church to section four, and the fourth and fifth sections of the judi ci al article as r ported by the special com mittee on districting of the State, etc., as foll()ws: SEC. 4. Terms of the supreme court shall conti nue to be held in the present grand divisions until otherwise provided by law; and, in addition thereto, one or more terms of said court shall be held, for the northern division, in the city of Chicago, each year, at such times as said court may appoint, when ever said city or the county of Cook shall provide appropriate rooms thereft)r, and the use of library, without expense to the Siate., The judicial divisions may be altered, in creased or diminished in number, and the times and places of holding said court may be changed; but the State shall not be divided into less than three nor more than seven election divisions, in each of which one judge or more of said court shall be elected. SEc. 5. The present grand divisions, shall be denominated by locality: Southern, Central and Northern. At the election held for the adoption or rejection of this Constitution, the electors of the several divisions shall elect judges of the supreme court as follows: Two in the northern division, whose terms of office shall expire on the first Monday of Jttne, 1873, at which time, and every twelve years thereafter, three judges of said court shall be elected. One in the central division, whose term of office,hall expire on!he first Monday of June, 1876, at which time and every twelve years thereafter, two judges of said court shall be elected. One in the southern division, whose term of office shall expire on the first Monday of June, 18'79, at which time and every twelve vears thereafter, two judges of said court shall be elected. And whenever the judicial divisions for the election of said judges shall be altered, increased or diminished, the same shall be done MARCH 15) 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDIINGS. 1211 ADJOURNMENT. PRINTING TO CONVENTION. SF,C.RF,TAR-k'S CLERK. Mr. WASHBURN. Mr. President: I have a reolut-.on I wish to offer. The Secretary reai the resolution offered by Mr. Washburn, as follows: -Resolved, That the clerk employed by the Secretary to record the journal, be allowed ispace in the senate chamber to pursue his labor during the recess. Mr. WASHBURN. Mr. PresidentThe members of this Convention authorized ti-ielmploymeiit of this clerk in the early days of the session. He wants to work during the recess, and as under the disposition the Convention has made of this hall, it is perhaps necessary that he should get accommodation in another rootd, he asks for a place in the senate chamber. Mr. TINCHER. Does the gentleman who proposes to write, require a janitor? Mr. WASHBURN. He proposes to write in the sejjate chamber, where there is already a janitor. Mr. TINCHER. I understand that the jabitor is to go with the balance. He is to I)e disposed of duridg the recevs. I The resolution offered by Mr. Wa hburn was agreed to. 1q12 coNsTITUTJoAL CONVEXTIO TUESDAY, The CHAIRMAN. No, sir; the fourth was not adopted. Mr. HAY. Mr. Chairman: It seems to me that this fourth section should stand, and that it would comport with the amendment to the fifth section. The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman from McHenry [Mr. Church] moves to strike out in the fourth section, all after the word "State," in the fourth line, and to substitute the amendment that he of fers. The gentleman from Sangamon [Mr. Hay] offers an amendment to that amendment, which he thinks more properly comes under the fifth section. It will probably be best to first decide upon the fourth section. If the amendment of the gentleman from McHenry [Mr. Church] is not appropriate to thhat section, it can be voted down, and the amendment ofthe gentleman from Sangamon [Mr. Hay] can be offered, and voted upon afterwards, when the fifth section is voted'upon. Mr. CHURCH. Mr. Chairman: The amendment that I offered is appropriate to the fourth or fifth section, and in lieu of what I will read: The judicial divisions may be altered, increased or diminished in number, and the times and places of holding said court may be chan ged; but the State shall not be divided into less than three nor more than seven elect.ion divisions, in each of which orie judge or more of said court shall be elected. Now, the amendment relates merely to the divisions for election. There is no reference to the holding of courts; and this section provides that',the State may hereafter be divided into not less than three nor more than seven election dis tricts." Here is the proper place for the committee to provide that it shall now be divided into seven election districts, and the amendments contemplated such a di vision. Mr. HAY. Let me suggest whether that is not the proper provibsio)n to remain as a permanent provision in the Constitu tion? Mr. CHURCH. No, sir. But I will not insist upon my amendment being considered in that place. Perhaps it would be better to have the districts pro vid- d foir in section fi,e, and allow sec tion ft.ur to remnain substantially as it is. The CHAIRMAN. The amendment of the genitleman from ScHenry [Mr. Church] being withdrawn, the question is upon the adoption of the fourth sec tion. Mr. UNDERWOOD. I move to strike mhout "three" and insert "one," in the eighth line. onMr. CODY.. -Mr. Chairman: I move to amend that by striking out "less than three nor," so that it will read, "shall not be divided into more than seven districts." It cannot be divided into less than one. Mr. SKINNER. Mr. Chairman: I hope the committee will deliberate before providing so that the judges of the su preme court may be elected by the St a t e at large I think they ought to be elected illn divisions or districts of one or more. The proposition now is to create seven divisions fbr electing judges therein, one judge in each. I have no objection to that. But I think it deserves a good deal of consideration whether the judges ought not to be elected in divisions of some sort, instead of by the State at large. The time might come when we would have upon the rul e of equality of population, as nearly as county boundaries will permit, and of equal apportionment of judges according to popula tion. Amendment to section four, offered by Mr. Church: Strike out all after the fifth line and insert the following: "The State shail be divided into seven judicial districts, in each of which there shall be one judge of the supreme court, except that at the first electio n the pre sen t three judges shall retain their office in the district to which they shall be allotted in such divisions." Mr. CHURCH. Mr. Chairman: As thecommittee have now reported seven districts, that amendment, as offered bv me, I suppose, would besubjecttoamenldment, and I will now give way to a proposition which I believe will be offered by the gentleman from Sangamon [Mr. Hay], in regard to forming these seven districts. His amendment will contain the manner in which thev are to be constructed for the purposes of the first election, it being supposed that, after the first election of the judges, the General Assembly will provide for the future election. Mr. HAY. Mr. Chairman: I have an incomplete draft of an amendment to the proposition of the gentleman from McHe,Lry [Mr. Church], which I have not had time to fill up, but which I can read. and the omissions can be understood and supplied: Strike out the fifth section and substitute that the State, until otherwise provided by law, be divided into seven districts for the election of judges, as follows: The first district to be composed of the counties of -(following the report of the select committee); the second district to be composed of the counties of —- (in the same manner as the committee reported); the third district to be composed of the counties of —; the fourth district to be composed of the counties of-; the fifth district to be composed of the counties of-; the sixth district to be composed of the counties of —; the seventh district to be composed of the counties of —; and that at the time of voting on the adoption of the Constitution, one judge otf the supreme court shall be elect ed by the electors thereof, in each of the said districts numbered one, three, six aid seven -1 think that practically would leave the present judges as in the other dis tricts -and who shall hold their offices for the term of twelve years from the first Monday of June, 1870. I have sketched this hastily, and am not sure that it is perfect. The! CHAIRMAN. The Chair will state that the amendment of the genltle man from McHen~ry [Mir. Church] was to the fourth sectionl, while the amendment of the gentleman from S~angamon [Mr. Hany] seems to lbe to the fifth section. Mr. CHIURCH. Mr. Chairman: The proposition offered by the gentleman fromn San~gamono [Mr. Hey] is aln amend ment to thee amendment offered by my self. Therefore, it wo~uldl go to the sanse section as my amendment. 51t. BROWNING. Mr. Chairman: I would suggest to the gentleman from M~cHenry [Mr. Church], that. even if we adopt this report, the fourth section will be correct as it is. It does not require any amendment. It is the fifth sectio-n that the gentleman from Sanigamon [Mr. Hay] moves a substitute for. Mr. CHURCH. I intended my amend.ment for the section which provides for the election of judges. - Mr. -BROW~lN G. Tbmt is the fifth; -the fourth was probably adopted. a court of one political party, if the judges are elected by the State at large. Nobody desires th tt. It could not well be the case if the judges were elected in separate divisions of the State, especially if ther e w ere seven divisions. The CHAIRMAN. The question is upon the adoption of the amendment to the fourth section. Mr. UNDERWOOD. I will withdraw the amendment, Mr. Chairman. The same object would be accomplished in better language by striking out all after the word "changed," in the seventh line. The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman fromt DuPa,ge [Mr. Cody] moves to strike out the words "less than three nor," ia the eighth line, and the gentleman from St. Clair [Mr. Underwood] moves to amend by striking out all after the word "changed," in the seventh line. Mr. CODY. I withdraw my amend metit, Mr. Chairman. The CHAIRMAN. The question is upon the amendment of the gentleman from St. Clair [Mr. Underwood.] The amendment was agreed to. The CHAIRMAN. If there are no other amendments, the section will be considered as adopted. Mr. ELDREDGE. Mr. Chairman: I wish to m-nove to insert after the word "division," in the second line of section four, as foliows: And at the several places now provided for holding the same therein. The amendment is merely intended to provide that the court shall be held at the several places where it is now held, until otherwise provided by law. It has been suggested that the language of the section is a little indefinite in that respect. I always supposed it was the intention of the committee, that the court should continue to be held at these sever a) places where provision has been made fo~r holding the terms, and where we now ha e expensive bouildiings, libraries, and all the requisite cotnveniiences for holding court. U,itil the Legislature shall pro vide that our whole judicial machinery sh._ll be overhaul,d,-arid pressing necessi ties absolutely require it, I apprehend no reasi),,able man expetes or desires a chatige in this respect. The section, as it reads, does not designate the place at which the co~urt is to be held in any grand divi sio)n. Certainly no harm cgn] be done by in serti~:,g the words 1 propose, and in my judge nlnt the language of the section i, not sufficientlly explicit and perfect with out there words. Mr. SKINNERt. The section being silent, Mr. Chairman, as to the place where the court shall be held, and the divisions being fixed inl which the court must be held, the present law would con1 tinue as to the places of the sitting of the court, until chacged by the General As sembly. And it seems to me that the amendment is unnecessary. The CHAIRMAN. The question is upon)v the amendment proposed by the gentleman from LaS~alle [Mr. Eldredge]. The Clerk read the amendment, aa fo~llows: Insert after the word "divi sion" And at the several places row provided for holding the same therein. A diivision was ordered. The committee divide~d, when, there being twenty-eight in the affirmativee and CONSTIT-UTIONAL CONYENTION TuF,ST)AY, 1212 MAO 5 80 -AE ~ ~CE)~~.11 d- the territory included. But in making at up the map of the world, it has been aron ranged in the reverse order from the num bering of these districts as proposed. By All builders of edifices, it is said, bege gin to work in the northeast corner. And he I always like to se e numbering of t his ad kind consistent or philosophical, in order. Lo- I presume it has not occurred to the genh- tleman who offered the proposition, that there has been a reason in times past why r- the enumeration of districts should comb- mence in the south, which now does not er exist, because the settlement of the State we- first began in that direction. But now n: the matter is entirely reversed; for as be the settlement and progress of the State ag has marched forward, the number has progressed northward with the populaot tion, until the population, I think, is in to the north part of the State. I suggest c- that is not only consistent with poputlaof tion, being the important portion of the State, but is entirely consistent with the is manner in which these things always oc to cur. n I wish the gentleman would consent to a reversal of the number. The motion I is that the number seven be number one. m Mr. BROMWELL. Mr. Chairman: n Georgraphers always look to the north, s, astrologers to the east, astronomers to the t, south, and poets to the west [laughter]; d and as this is a geographical question, and involves the map of Illinois, I should e- like to see the numbering conform to the - numbering of the degrees of latitude, and r begin at the south. es Mr. HAINES, of Lake. -Mr. Chair man: That is a new idea. I do not - know about it, but as far as the re sult is concerned in respect to the map of Illi', nois, and as far as I s h ould be called upon, eI should like to work in th e nay I havte "suggested. e Mr. HAITNES, of Cook. Mr. Chair, man: What is the qu esti o n? ' The CHAIRMAN. The question is S pupon reversing the order of numberi ng t he districts. e Mr. BROWNING. Mr. Chairman: s As I understand the propositioned i t is to t begin att n r hes o ne the northeast corner of the State. t It is a matter of no grea t i mportance, except as to taste, and convenience of , following the numbers in succes sive or Mr. HeINES, of Lake t tt. Mr. Chair be ar es , oat: The gentleman fro m Coles [Mrm Bromwell], who has given the different ' modes in which geographers and woets 'view the subject will, I trust, have charge '.of such matters as concern them, while the [map may be allowed to begin at the lnorth. Mr. BRO HWELL. Mr. Chairman:: H Eow are degrees of latitude numbered in the gentleman's county -s Mr. HAINES, of Lake. Mr. Chair-> ,man: We have no degrees of latitude i~ any county. One county does not- emra brace degrees of latitude. Mr. BROHWELL. How do they teach the subject? Mr. HAIkNES, of Lake. I do not know~. sir. I never taught or went to school,, there. So I cannot answer. Some, per;haps, number from all imaginary iule~ both ways; but i~t w.ould be just as con — -sistent to number fromm one of the polesd ] This is all a matter convenience; b Eso far as concerns form and harmony an&-~ ~,consistency among geographers, the ~pi Mr. HAY. That would require amen ment, I suppose. I would suggest th [ we add that portion to the end of secti( four, to complete the sense. - Mr. SKINNER. Mr. Chairman: I common consent, I would move to chan 1 from the fifth section to the end of th - fourth, the words, "the present gran divisions shall be denominated by 1 calities, souther n, central, and nort .ern." Mr. BROWNING. The present a rangement of grand divisions will pro ably suit professional gentlemen bett~ than any new arrangement; and I ther fore, suggest that it be put in this forn "The present gr and divis ions shall cpreserved for the purpose of holdin courts." Mr. HAINES, of C oo k. Would it nd be bette r t o see first, if we are going adopt se ctio n f ive, b ef ore we t ake any ao tion in reference to the transferring one portion of it to another? The CHAIRMAN. The question upon the adoption of the amend me n t t s ec tion five, as pr oposed by the gentlem a from Sangamon [Mr. Hay]. Mr, SKINNER. Mr. Chairman: would Suggest to the gentleiman fror Sangamon [Alr. Hay], that he accept a amendment, by striking out the words "by locality," in the first line, and inser t aft er the wor d "be," the words, "preserve and be," so that it will read: The present grand division s shall be pre served, and be denominated Southern, Cen tral and Northern. The State, until other wise provid ed by l aw, shall b e divided int seven d istricts, fo r th e el ection of judge s, a follows: First District-To be composed of the coun ties of St. Clair, Washington, Jefferso Wayne, Edwards, Wabash, White, Hamilton Franklin, Perry, Randolph, Monroe, Jackson Williamson, Saline, Gallatin, Hardin, Pope Union, Johnson, Pulaski and Massac. Second Distric.t-To be composed of the counties of Madison, Clinton, Marion, Bond Clay, Richland, Lawrence, Crawford, Jasper Efflingham, Fayette, Montgomery, Maconpin Shelby, Cumberland, Clark, Greene, Jerse~ and Calhoun. Thtird -District-To be composed of the counties of Sangamon, Christian, Macon, Lo gan, DeWitt, Platt, Douglas, Champaign. Vermilion, McLean, Livingston, Ford, Irquois, Coles, Edgar and Moultrie. IFovrth District-To be composed of the counties of Fulton, McDonough, Hancock Schuyler, Brown, Adams, Pike, Mason, Me. nard, Morgan, Cass, Scott and Tazewell. Fzifth 1)istrict —To be composed of the counties of Knox, Warren, Henderson, Mercer, Henry, Stark, Peoria, Marshall, Putnam, Bureau, La~alle, Grundy and Woodford. Sixth Ditstrict —To be composed of the counties of Whiteside, Carroll, JoDaviess. S~te. phenson, Winnebago, Boone: McI~enry, Kane Kendall, De~alb, tee, Ogle and Rock Island'. Seventh District —To be composed of the counties of Lake, Cook, Will, Kankakee andl DuPage. And that, at the time of-woting on the adoption of this Constitution, one judge of the supreme court shall boSelected, by the electors thereof, in each of said districts, numbered one, three, six and seven, and who shall hold their offices for the term of twelve years from the first Monday of June, A.DI. 1870; and whenever the judicial divisions for the election of said judges shall be altered, increased or diminished, the same shall be done upon the rule of equality of population, as nearly as county boundaries will permit, and of equal apportionment of judges according to population. Mr. HAY. Mr. Chairmanl: I accept the amendment. Mr. HAINES, of Lake. Mr. Chair-man: I move to reverse the order of numbering proposed in these districts. i do not know that I have any objection to six in the negative, the amendment wa, agreed to. Mr. ANTHONY. Mr. Chairman:: call for the read ing of t he section. The Clerk read section f our, as amend ed as fillows: SEc. 4. Terms of the supreme court shal continue to be heldin the present grand di visions and at the several places now provided for holding the same therein, until otherwise provided by law; and, in addition thereto,one or more terms of said court shall be held, for the northern division, in the city of Chicago, each year, at such times as said court may appoint, whenever said city or the county of Cook shall provide appropriate rooms therefor, and the use of library, without expense to the State. The judicial divisions may be altered, increased or diminished in number, and the times and places of holding said court may be changed. Section four, as amended, was agreed to. The CHAIRMAN. The question next is on t he ad opti on of t he substitute of the gentleman from Sangamon [Mr Hay], to the fifth section. The Clerk read the substitute offered by Mr. Hay, as follows: The present grand divisions shall be pre served, and denominated Southern, Central, and Northern. The State, until otherwise provided by law, shall be divided into seven districts, fo r the election of officers, as fol lows: First Dlistrict-To be composed of the coun ties of St. Clair, Washington, Je fferson, Wayne, Edwards, Wab ash, White, Hamilton, Frankl in, P erry, R andolph, Monroe, Jackson, Williamson, Saline, GallatiD, Hardin, Pope Union, Johnson, Alexander, Pulaski, and Massac. Second District-Shall be composed of the counties of Madison, Clinton, Mario, Wl Bond, Clay, Richland, Lawren ce, Craw ford, t asper Effingham, Fayette, Montgomery, Macoupin Shelby, Cumber land, Cl ark, Greene, Jersey, and Calhoun. Thiard Dist rict-To be composed of the coun ties of Sangam on, Christian. Macon, Logan, DeWitt. Piatt, Douglas, Champaign. Vexrmilion, McLean, Livi ngston, Foid, Ir(quois, Coles, Edgar, and Moultrie. sorurth District-To be composed of the cotnties o f Ful ton, McDonough, H ancock, Schusler, Brown, Adamns, Pike, Mason, Menard, M l organ, Scott, Causs, and Tazewell. Fij t th i strict- T o b e c omposed of the counties of Knox, Warren, Henderson, Mercer ec, Henry, Stark, Peoria, Marshall, Putnam, Bureau,s LaSalle, Grunody and Woodford. - Sixth District-To be composed of the counties of Whiteside, Carroll, Jo Daviess, Stephenson, Winnebago, Boone, McHenry, Kane, Kendall, DeKalb, Lee, Ogle and Rock Island; aud the Seventh District-To be composed of the counties of Lake, Cook, Will, Kankakee and DuPage. And that at the time of voting on the adoption of this Constitution, one judge of the supreme court shall be elected by the electors thereof, in each of said districts numbered one, three, six and seven, and who shall hold their officers for the term of twelve years from the first Monday in June, A. D. 1870. And whenever the judicial divi.-ions for the election of said judges shall be altered, increased or diminished, the same shall be done: upon the rule of equality of population. as nearly as county boundaries will permit, and, of equal apportionment of judges according 1 to population. - ]Alr. HAY. Mr. Chairman: I think' it would be better to propose it as a substitute, for so much of the fifth section i as rulns to the word "elected," in the tenth line, inclusive of that word, and retain the latter clause of the section. also retain in the first and second lines of 1 the section, the swords, "the present grand divisions shall be denominat ed by lo-s clties, southern, central, and north- i ern."X 804 I s t t s a c q n MARCH 15, 1870. -DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1213 CONSTITTiOAL CONVTIOX 1'EN and to prevent possible confusion in future reports, it should be adopted. The question being on the motion (f Mr. Haines, of Lake, to reverse the numberinLg of the districts, a division was ordered. The committee divided, when, there being eleven in the affirmative and twenty-two in the negative, the amendment was not agreed to. The CHAIRMAN. The question is now upon the substitute of the gentleman from Sangamon [Mr. Hay]. Mr. SKINNER. Mr. Chairman: I wish to inquire if Cilintou county is not omitted? Mr. HAY. My amendment was in i)lank, to be illed up according to the report of the select committee. Mr. TINCHER. Mr. Chairman. I desire to move to amend, if it be in order, by putting "eight" years in the place of "twelve." Mr. UNDERWOOD. Why not make it nine, in order to make it correspond with the others! Mr. TINCHER. At the suggestion of the gentleman, I will modify my motion and make it ninie years. I think that is long enough, and too long to suit my views. The CHAIRMAN. This is an amendment to the section, and not to the substi tute. t Mr. TINCHER. The substitute strikes out a portion of the section. The CHAIRMAN. It strikes out down to the word "elected," in the twelfth line. Mr. BROMWELL. Mr. Chairman: I rise to a question of order. It seems to me that a substitute cannot be offered to any part of a section. It will merely be an amendment to strike out and insert. A substitute must go to the whole body of the section. The CHAIRMAN. It is a complete sentence to the word "elected." The Chair is of opinion that it could be offered to that part of it. It makes very little difference whether it is treated as a substitute or an amendment. In reality, it is the same thing. Mr. TINCHER. I understand, Mr. Chairman, that it embraces the portion that I desire to amend. ttei The CHAIRMAN. It does. The Chair presumes the substitute provides for the same thing, and it can be offered to the substitute. Mr. TINCHER. I move, sir, to strike out "twelve" wherever it occurs, and ins sert "nine."l Mr. BROWNING. I would like to know what the object is, Mr. Chairman? Mr. TINCHER. Mr. Chairman, my reason is, we do not want to elect men for too long a time. I would prefer a shorter time, rather than a longer one. Men might get upon the bench who only up to a certain period in life, would make good judges. Twelve years is a long time. If elected for that term, a man might prove to be efficient for six years, and ineffi cient for the other half of the term. And I can see many other reasons. I did not intend to take up the time.of the committee a single moment in discussing the question. if I had to amend further I should insist upon six years, but I am anxious to reduce it below twelve in any event. Perhaps, if I can do no better, I should be content with nine years. I 1214 TUESDAYI of the map being norlb, it is the head or place of beginning. The place of beginning is not always the strongest point, perhaps, yet it is a point to commence. IVIR. BROMWELL. Why is it that the United States surveyors always number the townships northward, beginning at the base line oia the south? Mr. HAINES, of Lake. The United States -surveyors always commence at the northeast corner of a township to number the sections. That, from the beginning, b4 been a rule never departed from. The northeast corner section i,5 num.. ber one, Mr. BROMWELL. But townships are numbered frop4 the base line northward, Mr. HAINES, of Lake. The township is sub-divided into thirty-six sections, ard the one in the northeast corner is number one. Mr. MEDIL,L. Mr. Chairman: I would like to e-xpla4.n the action of the committee. Their instructions conferred on them authority to equalize the population of the three grand divisiorisnot to change their numbers from those in the present Constitution, but fairly and eq.uitably to equalize them. We therefore detactied from the middle divi-ion enough counties to equalize the southern division, and then from the northern division suf fiicieilt counties to reduce it to its proper dimensions. We let the original numbers stand un disturbed. We did not suppo.,ie we had authority to change the order of numberiL.g the divisions. In constructing the single districts we naturally began in the first grand division, which we split in twain and made two districts. The flrst one would be the south-half of the present grand division. The north half of it would be number two, Tljeia we took ibo eentrttl kranc't divisiol'i and cut it in fw -0, ilid edi-led the east portion, number three, and the west number four, very naturally. We then came to the third granct division, and cut it into three parts,'and called them number five, number;six and number seven. If we had; commenced at the north, it would have been Decessary to recast the whole, and change the numbers of the grand diviisiou,g, as well as those districts. The, circuit districts beirin at the south, and -number northward.!Phe represeil think that this is an improvement upon the re-port of the committee. Mr. BRO.LNIWELL. Mr. Chairman: I would like to suggest to my colleague to makeitsevenyears. Thenonejidgecan go out each year. Mr. TINCHER. It strikes me with a good deal of favor, Mr. Chairman. I will modify my amendment again, and make it seven, and if any gentleman will suggest a shorter time I will go for that. [Laughter.] There is propriety in not haViDg fneu elected for one third the lenoth of a inatural life. About thirty or C, thirty three years being the avera —e le-Dgth of human life in the aggregate, as I understand it, it would seem as if a term of twelve years would be too long. We want a cliar.c,o to reach these iud es, a-nd we 9 want a chance to reindorse them if they are right, every four years; a chance to disp-)se of them if they are not all right. I hope my amendment will be agreed to, and shall decline to detain the Convention further with the discussion. Mr. WELLS. Mr. Chairman: I hoped some gentleman would have opposed that amendment, but as no one rose, I desire to say, for one, that if there is one feature of the judiciary report I approve of heartily, it is the long term given to judges. If there is one thing that COntributes more than another to render the judiciary worthy the confidence of the people, it is its stability. Mr. TINCHER. Why not make it twenty-five years, thbn? Mr. WELLS. I would most heartily vote for twenty-five years. I would most heartily indorse it for life or good behaviour. That is just what I desire to see in the Constitution. The judiciary of the Uinited States stands as high, as irreproachable as ever judiciary did sttiid, or can stand, and I attribute that chiefly to the fact that they hold their office for life or good behavior. Mr. HAINES, of Lake. Speaking of the supreme court Of the UDited States standing high in the estimation of the people, I would inquire if the chief justice, a few years aLo. stood so very high in the estimation of the American people? I will ask, further, if there has not been some legislation in Congress for the purpose of preventing antici ARO'li 15, 18w. DEBATES ANI) I'ROC]EDINGS. 1q15 - ought not to be, while upon the bench a anxious about their tenure of office. A e judge, and especially a supreme judge - when he is put upon the bench, is inca - pacitated for anything else. t Our supreme judges have no time to i give attention even t(o the most ordinarj e domestic and private affairs. Unlik ? other judges, their time of recreation is while they are on the bench. It is labor e - to other men to be on the bench; it is the . only season of recreation supreme j udges A get. They labor while they are there but that labor is light, in comparison with - the labors that begin as soon as they quit - the bench, and continue until they resume their seats. They have not one hour to de vote to anything else than their official dud ties, and they ought to have no anxiety , about the tenure of their office. They i bought to be sure of that, for a good long t while. Twelve years is the lowest pe3riod that ought to be fixed, in my judg ment; and I greatly prefer to increase it to twenty or twenty one years, rather than reduce it a single year or month. Nor ought they to hold their office for so limited a time, as to inspire them with an anxiety so to shape their official con duct as to propitiate public favor to se cure a re-election. They ought to be in dependent of public clamor, as well as of legislative interference and power; and I pray God the day may never come in this country, (that the gentleman from Ful ton [Mr. Ross] seems so earnestly to de sire), when, among the questions to be canvassed before the people, and upon which elections are to be made to turn, lshall be how the highest and most exalt ed judicial tribunal of the State will de cide the great constitutional and legal questions that may come before it. Now, sir, the gentleman seems to look forward to the time as a political millen nium, when the questions that are to be decided by our supreme court shall be submitted at the hustings, and first pass ed upon by the people, some of whom are of that class which we have heard spoken of by the gentleman from Cook [Mr. Hlaines]. If all these great questions are to be canvassed at the hustings, instead of being decided in what we hope will be the calm, pure and untainted atmosphere of the court room, why not abolish the supre-e court entirely? Why not resolve ourselves into a pure and perfect democracy, abolish all the departments of government, and submit every question to the people at general elections? Why have anything decided upon any sulbject, legislative or judicial, without first consulting the public prejudices and the public passions, after beinig lashed into the fiercest fury, that they are capable of attaining, and then take their decisions as the rule and guide of our conduct? Mr. Chairman, if we were seeking to resolve all the elements of government into the profoundest anarchy, we could not adopt better means for accomplishing that object than those suggested by the gentleman from Fulton [Mr. Ross]. Now, sir, twelve years is a short time for a judge of the supreme court to hold his office; and when we put a judge on the bench, on scarcely salary enough to furnish the necessaries of life for himself and family, keep him there for six or seven years and then turn him off the bench, when he is in the very maturity ofr his ability for the petformance of his duties, when his judgment is ripe, and his State did not hold for life, and it has ap plied to the United States. The gentlemar [Mr. Haines, of Lake] has cited to me an instance where a judge, being in fluenced by political considerations, ren dered a decision distasteful to a large part of the people. Is the fact that he held that office for life chargeable at all to the fact that he made that political decisions I say not. It seems to me, Mr. Chairman, that sta bility is the main thing in the judiciary Anything that renders the judiciary more stable, renders it more serviceable to the people. I hope that this provi sion in this present report of the Judicia ry Committee will be retained. Mr. ROSS. Mr. Chairman: I am very decidedly in favor of the motion of the gentleman from Vermilion [Mr. Tiicher], it being in accordance with my general theory in relation to the tenure of all officers in the State. I think seven years is long enough to keep an officer on the bench, without submitting his claims again to the people. I do not think the position occupied by the gertlemlan from Peoria [MNr. Wells] is tenable with reference to the question. He says if judges are elected for a great length of time they enter into the-spirit of the business and prepare themselves for the duties before them. I know of stimulants better adapted to induce a judge to prepare himself for the duties before him, viz: the patent fact that he is to submit his claims to an intelligent people and an intelligent bar. He knows full well, thac if he does not discharge his duttes well he wvill be left out when his term expires. I am looking forward with some degree of interest to what I regard as the great conflict coming on in this country very shortly-the conflict between capital and labor-the conflict between mammoth corporations in this country and the people. And the people in such a contest will want to know upon which side in this great question the judiciary will arraign itself With this view they would like to have the opportunity, at least as often as once in seven years, to pass upon the judges who are to determine these important questions in which they are to have so deep an interest. I trust, sir, that this amendment will be adopted. The people are not afraid to trust themselves in electing their judges. It swill no; be a dead weight upon the Constitution. The people of the country, whatever may be the opinions of the Convention, have not lost their faith in their capacity for self government. They think they are capable of passing upon our public servants, the judiciary as well as the rest. Mr. BROWNING. Mr Chairman: Like the gentleman from Peoria [Mr. Wells], I refr'ained from taking the floor, in the hope that some other member of the Convention, better qualified to discuss the question, and whose opinions might have more weight and influence with our associates, would do so, and make some suggestions against the adoption of the amendment proposed by the gentlemsan from Vermilion [Mr. Tinlcher]. If I had had any doubt at all as to the impropriety of the adoption of his amendment, all doubts would have been removed completely by the speech of the gentleman from Fulton [Mr. Ross]. Judges, of all other men, Mr. Chairma~ , in(] full of the learning that fits him k for the able performance of the duties o, that pertain to his stat ion-turn him of - ithout em ployment and unfitted at his period of life to enter upon other busio ness-it is not only unwise, but it is uay just and cruel. e In my opinion those who are not wills ing to accept supreme judges to be ser lected, by themselves, for a period of e twelve years, have an altogether inadesquate appreciation of the value of good ; government. I trust this amendment will not be adopted. t Mr. BROMWELL. Mr. Chairman: I wish to say a word or two upon this question. Why should not the Governor hold - his office for twenty-one years, or senators T in the State senate, or members of the 7 house of representatives? What is there in this office of judge that he is always ' spoken of assoimiething wholly transeen dent, having nothing in common with people acting in other capacities? Mr. BROWNING. Will thegentleman allow me to ask him a question as I do not wish to occupy the fli(or again? Mr. BRO.MWELL. Certainly. Mr. BROWNING. Why not elect judges fo)r the same term of office that members of the Legislature, mayors or constables of towns are elected, and for no longer term? Mr. BROMWELL. Well, we elect members of the Legislature in very small districts, for one reason, and they act upon many more and different questions from what judges do-and on present emer gency. But so far as the public super vising the characters of the men who serve them in different capacities is con cerned, it is as necessary for the public to have a chance occasionally to pass upon the men who sit upon the bench, as upon a man sitting in the house of representa tives. It would be inconvenient to elect judges in large districts every two years, which is another reason why it should not be done. But if a judge be such a man as sug gested by the gentleman from Adams [Mr. Browning], it will be found out by the bar and the people, so that in the full tide of manhood, intelligence and legal lore he will not be turnled away to make room for a man less qualified. If, on the contrary, he is found to be a man who does not pay attention to the rights of man, and to the laws sof justice, the public should have the opportunity to set him aside. Now, twelve years is as mulch as the average life of a voter. Take the average of life in this country, and men do not live twelve years after becoming voters. We here have an official term equal to the average life of a mnan, after he becomes of mature years. Why make an exception in this case more -than any other? A~ judge, when upon the bench, is just as much inclined to be affected with sanity and self-conceit as he would be anywhere else. We all know the effect of keeping men in o~ffice too long, withe t a chance to relieve them. They become tranlscendently wise. They know everything, and assume proprietorship not only-of' all knowledge pertaining to their particular business, but of the opinions of the community. Of all the dominations or tyrannies with which the world has been afflicted, there is nothing equal to judicial tyranny. Rights have been acquired ire t MARC-ff 15) 1870. -DEBATES AN-D PROCEEDINGS. 1215 1216 COSTJTUTIOXAL COXYITJON TUESDAY, nounced that another law was a superior law-that is all. The gentleman seems to misunderstand the entire character of the judiciary. The judiciary is an engine that never puts itself in motion-never. It is a power which can be set in motion by any individual. When set in motion its decisions or its effects apply only to that one case. Mr. BRONMWELL. Does the gentleman think that the recent decision on the legal tender act only applied to that one case? Mr. WELLS. It applies to only one case. Gentlemen who have questions of a similar nature may understand that the court, when called upon again in a similar case, would decide in a similar way; but it does not preclude any gentleman from taking a case of similar nature to the court, with the expectation of getting a different decision. Hundreds of times, where cases of a similar nature have been passed upon, the supreme court has reversed its former decisions The court is never put in motion except in one individual solitary case at one time, and its decisions apply only to that case. If tlhe gentleman complains that courts have been sometimes called upon to reverse decisions of other courts, or pronounce laws in conflict with other laws, the gentleman must bear in mind that all law is but a bungling experiment. No law ever passed was perfect in its operation on all men in all places. No law this Convention has passed is of any more effect than as it is right and meets the wants and wishes and passions of the people. The effect of placing a lw in this Constitution does not make it right, it only indicates what we think the law is or ought to be. If it should conta, i n any erroneous principle it would be found to clash with the interests of the people, and of right. Laws should exist in right. Courts have to pass on the rights of the individual. They have a large code of laws, an immense experisence, and they apply the laws of the State to the inviduatl interests in the case pre o sented before them. Does any gentleman here desire to present his rights, his estate or personal rights to a court and know that that court is influenced by the seething hot-bed of politics? Does any genitlenian desire to have politics enter into the decision of his case, or the judge on the bench decide on his property, his mortgages, his goods, or his money, under political inifluences? Does he desire to have that judge gov.p d erned by some uncertain, petty political influence, of which no one knows what the result will be, instead of by the principle of law, which should control all men? Mr. ROSS. I would like to ask the gentleman, Mr. Chairman, who has dew sired any such decisions to be made? Mr. WELLS. Of course the gentle -cman will disclaim the desire to have such decisions made. But he desires judges to be elected at frequently recurring intervals, and that will, in effect, make the judges nothing but politicians; and their decisions, instead of being influenced by law and Tight, will be warped by politi cal and partisan considerations. Mr. ROSS. Mr. Chairman: I would like to ask the gentleman if there has ever been any difficulty in electing honest and competent judges in this country? CONSTITUTIONAL, CONVENTION TUF,SDAY, 1216 Mr. WELLS. Yes, sir; I am frank to state that I have known of it many times. Judges decline to sit upon the bench because they do not get pay enough. Mr. ROSS. The gentleman does not understand my question. Is it the fact that the people have ever refused to reelect a competent, honest man? Mr. WELLS. I am very happy to state, sir, that in my experience I have never known a good and able judge to be defeated by the votes of the people. But I believe that such instances can and will happen. Mr. ROSS. Mr. Chairman: I would like to ask the gentleman further if he does nor, think that, under these eircumstances, the people can be safely trusted in this respect.9 Mr. WELLS. Yes, sir; I will trust the people as far as any man upon this floor, and a little further I think than even the gentleman from Fulton [Mr. Ross]. But judges on the bench are liable to the influerices of political intrigue, and a judge may be obliged either, to compete with politicians, or retire from the bench. Such things do happen and are liable to happen every day. My desire is to remove the j udges from the influences which must surround political questions. We have decided to place the election at a different time from the other elections, in, order to remove judges as far as possible from political influences. I thiijk that everything possible should be done to put away politics from the judiciary of this State. Mr. MERRIAM. Mr. Chairman: I bad thought, sir, before this proposition was made here to incorporate an aristoc. racy, or something of that kind, in our judiciary system, that no man was afraid to leave thL, question of the election of judges, and the election of officers in other departments of the government, to the people. I had supposed, sir, that the day of man-worship had gone by, and confess, sir, that after all that I have heard of the judges of our country, and of the iud-aes of other countries, I have never seen anything that taught me to hold the judiciary in any higher respect t'-,an any other class of men, equally as pure, as patriotic and as high-MiDded. I will admit, sir, as readily as any gentleman upon the floor, that the judiciary der a law, and with one sweep of their hand they undo all that has'been done. Mr. WELLS. Mr. Chairman: How can a court upset a law, that has been a law for twenty years? Mr. BROMWELL. Mr. Chairman: A very strange question that for a lawyer to ask! By the very species of legisla tion the gentleman ought to be acquainted with. Have we not seen it everywhere? Law, considered well settled, that has passed the courts year after year, is suddenly overthrown by a supreme court; not repealing a law for the future, but subvert'ling rigl-its already acquired-even overthrowing and making invalid claims and patrimodies and estates, dating through the life of a generation. These thingi have tdken place, and even more than this, sir. Such has been the continual cry of courts and court worship, that the common people are beginning to say, whenever a law is passed in Congress, or by the Legislature, that it is ]no law until the courts have passed upon it. The courts have exerted a power which has been retroactive; and it becomes more and more so every year. Formerly it would be with great hesitation a court would speak of a statue of the lawmaking power as being unconstitutional, and then only when manifestly so. But now a j,,7,dge thinks he does well, when by ingenious argument and fine-spun. ratiocination he can make out a case against a statute, to overthrow it. This must ultimately destroy government in any country, if permitted. Now, nothing contributes more to such a result than to place judges on the bench for life or for a long term, and continually g,)idg before the judicial th,,one, with laudation,- declaring the judiciary above, and separated from the common world. The judge becomes a kind of Jupiter Olympus in the community, so that his ipse dixit is more to be respected than all the voices of the Legislature or Executive-so that he holds a sort of reserve power, like that of the key.s of St. Peter, or the infallibility of the Pope-that what he binds is bound, and what he looses is loosed. Therefore, I say, since courts must be retained, and are never disposed to throw away any of their j urisdictl'OD, Since the eo le have a ri lit to know what sort of DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. here to give our judiciary a lease of power Bromwell] that must be known to be ut for twelve years, though the judiciary is terly without foundation, i. e., that the the hardest department of the govern- judiciary is continually grasping for ment for the people to reach, when that power. That is not true. Let me call judiciary becomes corrupt, as it sometimes the attention of this committee to this does. It has been well said that "judges question in regard to the legal tender never resign, and that they seldom die," act, for instance. IIe says there is an and as for the question of impeachment, overweening desire on the part of the the only mode by which we can get rid judiciary to grasp or usurp power, in or of our judges, that, in nine cases out of der to decide statutes to be unconstitu ten, is simply a farce.! tional, and thereby ignore the legislation It seems to me, this idea of the infalli- of the country. Have not the people of bility of the judiciary is very much like the United States been for eight or nine the old monarchical idea that the"king can I years seeking to get a decision from the do no wrong." I cannot understand why supreme court of the United States on we may not trust the people to re-elect an the legal tender act? Has not the ablest honest judge every seven years. If his legal talent in this country earnestly and decisions are just, if they are in accord- persistently sought for a decision? Have ance with the best interests of the whole they not argued numerous cases, and has people, we may trust the people to re- not that court repeatedly refused to give elect him. a decision until peace was restored But in our own country we have had throughout this broad land? Eminent examples of the judiciary becoming cor- lawyers knew what the decision would rupt. In the State of Alabama the peo- be. They were satisfied that the legal ple have been trying to get rid of the tender act was unconstitutional, and yet United States circuit judge, for over two though they had such a desire, they could years. We are not assailing the judiciary not get the court to render that decision when we say we shall hold them respon- until the law had been in force for eight sible to the people. or nine years. It is very true, as the gentleman fromn Mr. BROMWELL. Did not the court Fulton [Mr. Ross] says, that there are assume too much power in that case, and some great struggles coming up between hold the rights of the people in abey the people of this country, and the giant ance? monopolies that are growing up, and I i Mr. VANDEVENTER. It does not have no hesitation in saying that when seem that they had an earnest desire to the people see that their judiciary are in decide the act unconstitutional. If they sympathy with the monopolies-if the had been so disposed, they would have time should evercome, which I hope may decided it eight or nine years ago. I not-they ought to have the power to think the court did wrong in not an unmake such a judiciary as that, and do nouncing its decision earlier than it did. it promptly. Mr. BROMIWELL. The gentleman There is no danger of our judiciary did not quote my remarks correctly. I being controlled by the passions and the said that the courts had too long grasped political influences thtt govern in the jurisdiction. election of other officers. The people of Mr. VANDEVENTER. I am not this country want a pure judiciary; they aware, Mr. Chairman, that that was the want a judiciary that shall be responsible fact. I think the gentleman's remark is to them; and the time has not come, I without foundation. I wish to call atbelieve, when the people of this State are tention to the decisions of the supreme willing to give any man a lease of power court of this State, and I do it without for twelve or fifteen or twenty years. fear of successful contradiction. I deny They wisely hold the right to pass upon that any decision of the supreme court of every man's conduct at least within a rea- the State of Illinois has been made where sonable period. they did not earnestly and sincerely re I think there can be no good argument gret the necessity that compelled them to urged against the adoption of the amend- decide statutes unconstitutional; and ment proposed by the gentleman from whenever there has been a decision deVermilion [Mr. Tincher]. If we are toe daring a statute unconstitutional, they have seven judges, and they hold seven have alluded to the fact that a statute years, we may provide that there shall beI ought never to be declared unconstitua gradual going out of office. The sys- tional, unless clearly, emphatically and tem may work very harmoniously in that positively opposed to the Constitution of way, and there will then be no difficulty the State of Illinois. about re electing every judge who is The gentleman talks about usurpation worthy of being re-elected. I hope, sir, of power by the judiciary of the State, that that amendment will prevail. and of the United States. Compare that Mr. VANDEVENTER. I do not de- with the usurpations of Congress-but I sire, Mr. Chairman, to detain the corn- will forbear. I will not allude to that meittee; and were I disposed tQ make a matter. I just call the attention of the lengthy speech upon this question I am| committee to it. Legislative bodies, howsatisfied that some gentlemen in this hall ever, can usurp, and pass statutes overwould put a wrong construction upon riding Constitutions, and the court isthe my remarks. I am charged, continually, only place where a remedy can be adminwith speaking solely in the inteiests of istered. As has been said upon this floor, the legal profession, whenever I do speak when the judiciary is broken down, the upon this floor. last and greatest bulwark of our liberties I admit that I have some feeling in! is destroyed. regard to the judiciary system of this Courts cannot commence suits and diState, and there are other attorneys in rect litigation. They are not in a posithis hall who have an equal interest, tion to do it. The judiciary has enough though some of them ate very quiet upon to attend to without the commencement all questions concerning it. of cases. They only decide upon cases as I wish to reply to one position, or as- they actually come up. They do not desertion of the gentleman from Coles [Mr.s cide upon imaginary cases, but only ad 305 MARCH 15, 1870. 12i7 minister upon stated cases as they arise, and the law is applicable to them. Legislatures can assume to pass laws upon every imaginable question, whether constitutional or not, but the courts are to confine themselves to the decision of the case, as made by the record, and I know of no single case where our su preme court has arrogated to itself any extraordinary jurisdiction or powers. As I have stated before, they have always regretted when the Legislature has over stepped the bounds prescribed by the Constitution, and thereby imposed upon them the necessity of declaring their acts unconstitutional and void. Mr. BAYNE. Mr. Chairman: It may seem presumptuous on my part to make a speech on this subject. I should not do so, had not the honorable gentleman from Adams [Mr. Browning] made such a speech, that I could not help thinking how great linind. will differ sometimes on great subjects; and so I concluded I would make a speech myself. [Laughter.] Now. I think it would be simply suicidal to allow gentlemen, as old as some of the members on this floor,-many of them with their hair already blossoming for the grave,-to be elected to a term of office for twelve years, and call upon those men to sit twelve long years on the su preme bench. It is preposterous. It is simply wrong; it is unjust for members of this Convention to attempt to impose such hardship upon lawyers. I, for one, cannot do it. I think, if it is as laborous a position as the honorable gentleman from Adams [Mr. Browning] has said, so that the judge gets no rest day or night, except while sitting on the bench, his position must be worse than if he were confined in the penitentiary. I am opposed to treating humanity in that kind of'style, I think seven years is long enough, an&. I hope that the amendment of the gen. tleman from Vermilion [Mr. Tincher] will be adopted. The gentlem n from Adams [Mr.^ Browning] spoke something about the, millennium coming round. I am look-. ing for that event myself, probably sooner th In most any other gentleman on the floor. I think it is almost upon us. Mr. TINCHER. I did not refer to it; for I saw no indications of its coming. Mr. BAYlNE. I allude to the gentleman from Adams [Mr. Browning], ]t/r. Chairman. I have seen the handwriting on the walls, ever since I have been in the Convention, and the time is fast coming whenl there will be no need of lawyers or judges; when every marl will be permitted to sit under his own vinle and under his own fig tree, and none dare to molest them, or make thema afraid. That is the prophecy of Divine Writ; and I think the time is fast approaching, If we allow these old lawyers, who have grown grey in the service of law, to sit for twelve years on the bench, the young lawyers around me will never have the privilege of sitting on the benceh, at all. For that reason, if for no other, I should oppose a twelve-year term. The gentlemnan from Peoria [Mr. Wells] tells us that no judge has ever reversed a law. I call his attention to the decision of Chief Justice Taney, who reversed a law that had been in force for four thousand years, a law written by the finger of God, on Mount Sinai —"Thou shalt i(ve thy neighbor as thyself. That law Baa CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION stood the test of ages; but the chief jus- that the recent war did not develope one tice of the supreme court of the United great man on either side; when this is States decided there were a certain class the case,- and such is the fact as to of mankind that had no rights which military men-warriors and heroes-we another certain class were bound to re- need not fear undue worship of the suspect. This decision called down the preme court of our own State, nor undue anathemas of Heaven on this nation, and reverence for the supreme court of the came near overturning it. nation. Sir, there is no danger of Chief I hope the amendment of the gentle- Justice Breese, Walker or Lawrence beman from Vermilion [Mr. Tincher] will ing worshipped. be adopted. If the people should ever hold in high Mr. ANTHONY. Mr. Chairman: I er regard than they do, the supreme court rise toa point of order. I desire to know of this State and nation, I should hail it if it is correct for the gentleman to slan- as an auspicious omen. I should look forder death? ward with bright anticipations to the fu-l Mr. BAYNE. I know it is not right ture. to speak evil of dignity. I am free to say that I believe we have Mr. CHURCH. Do you allude to Chief a bench that deserves honor. We have Justice Taney or Moses? always had honored men in the judiciary Mr. FOX. I would like to call your of the State; men who have honored themattention to one political judge, Pontius selves and the State by their faithful adPilate. What do you think of him? ministration of the laws, and I turn to Mr. BAYNE. He was anunjust judge, their decisions, as embodied in our re. for he held office for life. ports, with pride. I look to these men Mr. WELLS. No; only for four -to this court-with some reverence, and years. I hope this Convention, in making the ju-i Mr. BAYNE. The gentleman from diciary system for the State, will frame it Peoria [Mr. Wells] is mistaken. I see the so that this court will be regarded in the handwriting on the wall. "Ichabod" is years to come, with the same-respect and being written. The glory is departing reverence which has been accorded to it from the supreme bench, and the lawyers in the years past. of the land; and the time will come The CHAIRMAN. The question is round, that every man will worship God, upon the amendment of the gentleman according to his own opinions, when he from Vermilion [ 4r. Tincher.] will sit under his om n vine and under his Mr. SKINNER. Mr. Chairman: I do own fig tree, and there will be no lawyer not intend to debate this question. The or judge to make him afraid. Committee on the Judiciary investigated Mr. PERLEY. Mr. Chairman: The this question thoroughly, and was, I begentleman from Coles [Mr. Bromwell] lieve, unanimous in the conclusion they may dismiss his fears concerning our awe came to, that long terms under our sysand adulation of judges and courts. tem of electing judges, would be far betThere is not much hero-worship on these ter than short terms. No one ought to shores. The modern mind is not much be elected judge of the supreme court ungiven to worship of anything but money. less he has been in constant practice as a Nothing great now wins our worship. lawyer, and for a very considerable time. Men now-a-days do not bow down to If the time were short it would be diffianything but mammon. They may wor- cult to induce men of such experience, ship the golden calf, and the idols their and in the prime of life, to abandon their hands have wrought, but they do not wor- profession for a short term on the bench. ship anything of flesh and blood-unless An independent judiciary is what we it bea woman, and she must be mighty need-not independent of the people, but good looking [laughter] and their wor- independent of party influences, indeship is but short lived then. We do not pendent of cliques, and of politicians. bow down to each other much, and hard- We all have seen how, under the elec ly do to the God of Heaven; so that the tion system, judges have trembled as their gentleman need not fear that the people, terms were expiring, from fear of offendwho do not hold in awe this Convention, ing leading men and caucus-leaders. will be prone to hold in undue reverence We want judges above and beyond judges and courts. these influences, unaffected by the ebb When men can read the records of the and flow of politics and party, and above last ten years —the glorious record- the influence of leading men in society, brighter than any under Heaven; can rich and poor. follow Grant from the battle of Belmont I am in favor of the report. to the surrender of Lee under "the sour Mr. HAINES, of Lake. Mr. Chairapple tree" at Appomatox Court House; man: I must say that this is the first can see Sherman "fighting the devil with thing I have seen about this article that fire" and "tramp, tramp, tramping" with I have been in favor of, and by itself it his troops, his long triumphant march indicates something. It is in harmony from Atlanta to the sea; see Sheridan do- with the superstructure that the Judiciaing what was never done before, rallying ry Committee have attempted to rear and his men from a whole day's driving back, place before us. If gentlemen have supsending the rebel troopers "whirling" posed that we can present our work to down the valley, and rescuing a victory the people as suited to our own views, at night-fall from the very jaws of defeat; and not to the views of the people, and when men can call over the names of have it adopted, they have been very Grant, Sherman, Thomas, Sheridan, on much mistaken. the one side, and Stonewall Jacks in and Gentlemen have spoken of the millenRobert E. Lee, on the other,and read over nium. It is near at hand, I think, and and recall the whole glowing record with our work should be conformed to that eyes undimmed by happy tears, holding fact. I think the people have an idea these men and these deeds in light re- that that time is approaching, and theip gard and little reverence as so many do, will not accept anything that does not and saying, as the gentleman from St. correspond with coming event Clair [Mr. Snyder] said, m);ot long since, I asked for a change in the mode of TUESDAY. 1218 numbering districts. It ought to have been done. It is an annoyance to everybody to have to commence in the south and number to the north. There was a man lecturing about the country, not long ago, on a subject which he called "The Tongue." He showed how words and terms were often misapplied either by conventional agreement or omission through want of care in observing the rules of harmony and order. In every town there would be a Mr. Short, perhaps the tallest man in town; a Mr. White, an African; a Mr. Small, who would weigh 200 or 300 pounds. So the world goes on with those things we cannot control, and with those that we can control or ought to control, with respect to propriety and harmony. We have made seven districts, and it would suggest itself at once that the term of office should be seven years, that one judge might go out each year, and thus make the court stable. The idea, without argument, is suggested to our good sense, if we have any, The gentleman from Adams [Mr. Browning] says we cannot have a stable judiciary. But people have grown away from the old idea of what stability is. In the time when every officer of government held his tenure of office, not from the people, but from the accident of birth, nothing but Providence could remove him froim power. That was the idea entertained of stability in the institutions of the government. What would be the condition of the kingdom of Great Britain to day if the Parliament comprised only the House of Lords, and there was no House of Commons to regulate ,he conduct of that aristocratic body? What would be the condition of every State in the union to-day, with these questions agitating the people, of the grasping power of monopolies over their rights, were it not for these short tenures of office of their judges? When th is institultion called "slavery" had fastened itself on the body politic so firmly it seemed impossible to be removed, people looked upon it with fear and trembling, because it was a monopoly. A decision was given by a life officer of the judi. ciary branch of the government, contrary to what the people understood to be the law. But his decision was reversed by an appeal to the highest tribunal in the land -— an appeal to arm:s. "Wager of battle" is a remedy not unknown to the judiciary. This was wager of battle. This is called clamgor of the people. This was a calmor of the people, but they reversed that decision. The gentleman from Adams [Mr. Browning] says we might as w'e submit all questions to the people. That is the principle and philosophy of our governmnent. According to our theory, every offier in every branch of our government is a representative of the people. Wce do not wish in this judiciary article, nor do the people, that wec should depart, for a moment, fromn that principle. Talk about man-worship!I The gentleman frown Marshall [lgr. Perlcy] says this is nlot an age for worshipping men. But a few years gone by there was a terrible disposition tbr worshippin~ cong~ress. We thought it was infallible —like the pope of Rome. And congress would have mastered this whole government had they had an unlimited lease of power. There is just as mucl! danger of the MARCH 15, 157Q DEBATES AN~D PROCEEDINGS. 121w legislative branch of the government t akin g possession of the people's rig hts, as of th e jud iciary. They are one and the same i n spirit in this State. Both make, or attempt to make laws. If we see fit here to fix the term of the judges for twelve y ears, our whole work will be re-. jected by the p eople; and they ought to r eject it. The gentleman from Fulton [Mr. Ross] has well said t hat a gr eat and grave question-that between the people ad th o no oi tsi s o and the monopolistsis coming and then the peopl e do not want th is long leas e o er n ha of power in or court of last resort. Mr. BENJAMIN. If there is one State in the northwest that has been unfortunate, so far as the reputation of its supreme court is concerned, it is the State of Oh io, and t his, too, notwithstanding the bar of Ohio is, perhaps, one of the ablest in the union. This arises from the fact that the Constitution of Ohio provides that the judges shall be elected every five years. The result has been that in that State there have been a number of politicians on the bench. There has not been a stable, permanent judiciary; while the high character of our own supreme court in this State is due more to the fact that we have not been in the habit of changing our judges, than to any other one circumstance. Now, I think that hero-worship is not to be scoffed at. I think it is one of the best characteristics of our nature, that we cannot help but admire the great and the good; and there is no true lawyer who does not, with professional pride and with almost the spirit of worship, look back to the life and character of such men as Chief Justice Marshall, Chancellor Kent, Chief Justice Shaw, and Chief- Justice Gibson. Those were men whose characters we may well admire. They were, each of them, upon the bench a great number of years. They gave character to the courts over which they presided. Chief Justice Marshall was upon the supreme bench of the United States for a period of about thirty-four years. And right here I would ask every memr ber of this committee if he would be willing to-day-if he had the opportunityto vote for an amendment to the Constitution of the United States, providing that the judges should be elected every seven years? Notwithstanding all that has been said upon this floor, I do not believe that there is a single. gentleman here who will rise in his seat and say that he is in favor of making the offices of those judges elective, and in addition to that, that those judges should be changed every five or seven years. The high character which the supreme court of the United States has ever sustained, has been owing to the fact that the judges remain upon the bench for a long period. And the same may be said of some of the State courts. Chief Justice Shaw, of Massachusetts, was upon the bench some thirty years. Chief Justice Gibson, of Pennsylvania? was upon the bench thirty-five years. Chancellor Went, of New York, was Chief Justice and Chancellor for a period of about twentythre~e years, and then his term of public service was cut 0f by an unfortunate provision of the Constitution of New York, preventing judges from remaining upon the bench after attaining the age of sixty years. After that period he wrote his commentaries upon Ameri~n law. He lived to the age of eighty-five, and the judiciary of New York lost the services of twenty-five of the best years of his life. Those years were not, by any means wasted, because he was a man who could not remain idle. H e turned the powers of his mind in a different di rection. He wrote those commentaries, familiar to us all, and which sustain to American law the same position which the commentaries of Blackstone sustain to English law. When we look back, and by the light of experience, see the good effect of hav ing a stable judiciary, when we consider these valuable results, we ought to hesitate long before we cut down the term of service from that of twelve years, to that of seven, and thereby endanger the high character of our judiciary, and make it possible for mere politicians to get upon the bench. Mr. ANTHONY. Mr. Chairman: The gentleman who has just taken his seat, has referred to the great services of Chancellor IKent, in giving to America his commentaries on American law and jurisprudence. In those commentaries he has treated upon the very subject that we have now under discussion here this afternoon, to-wit-the independence of the judiciary as affected by long or short terms of office. He has spoken of the great influence which the United States court has had upon American jurisprudence, andthe reasons why the decisions of State judges are not characterized with that uniformity which distinguishes the decisions of the United States courts. Let us see what this testimony is upon this subject. I desire to read a very few sentences from Chancellor Kent's Cominentaries in corroboration of what my friend from McLean [Mr. Benjamin] has just said. In speaking of this subject, he says: The judiciary of the United States has an advantage over many of the State courts i n the tenure of office of the judges, and the liberal and stable provision for their support. The United States are, by these means, fairly entitled to command better talents, and to look for more firmness of purpose, greater independence of action and brighter displays of learning. The federal administration of justice has a manifest superiority over that of the individual States, in consequence of the uniformity of its decisions, and the universality of their application. Every S tate c ourt will naturally be disposed to borrow light and aid from the national courts, ratder tha n froh t the court s of their individual States, which will pr obably n ever be so generally respec ted and understood. * * * Then, referring to the per mane ncy of d. tjudiciary of t he States, Thadds: The vast field of t he l aw of prop erty, the very e xtensive head of hquity jurisdiction, and t he principal r ights and duties which flow from our civil an d do tiestic relations,fall within the cont rol, and w e might almost say, the exclusive cognizan ces of the Sta te governments. We look essentially to the State courts for pro tecti on to all these momentous interests. They touch in their operation everv chord of human sympathy o and control oumr best destinies. It is cheir province to reward and punis h. Titutir bles sin gs and their terrors will aeccompan y ustto the fireside, and be in onstant activity before the public ey e. The elementary principles o f the com mon law are the same in every State, and equally enlighten and invigorate every part of our country. O~ur municipal codes can be made to advance with equal steps with that of the nation, in discipline, in wisdom, and in lustre, if the Statesgovernmecnts (as they ought in all honest policy) will only render equal patronage and security to the administration of justice. The true interests and the permanent freedom of this country require that the jurisprudence of the individual States should be cultivated, cherished and exalted, and the dignity and reputation of the State. authorities sustained with becoming pride. In their subordinate relations to the United States, they should endeavor to discharge the duty which they owe to the latter, without forgetting the re spect they owe to themselves. In the a)pro priate language of Si r Willi am Blackstone and which he applied to the people of his own country, they should be "loyal, yet free; obe dient, and yet independent." How can a judiciary of the State be "independent," if it is made to depend upon a popular election within a term of office no longer than that of the executive or members of the State Legislature? When a lawyer leaves the practice of his profession and goes upon the bench, he should leave that practice for life, and sho uld have some security given to him that he will not be turned out by a pop ular election, because he makes a just de cision, that may not suit the populace. If we were to have our judicial system de pendent upon the votes of the populace, then, as has been suggested, we may as well refer our judicial decisionsto a town meeting and take the opinions of the masses, rather than that of an enlighten ed jurist. I am, for my part, in favor of the provision as it stands, and as reported by the Judiciary Committee, because I be.lieve that long terms will give greater stability to the judiciary and result in greater uniformity in our decisions. Mr. TURNER. Mr. Chairman: The exhaustion I feel fr'om attend ing the pro tracted sessions of this Convention, and the repugnance I feel to again addressing this body, have induced me to keep quiet upon this question. I feel, however, that as a member of the Judiciary Committee, I would not be doing my duty, if I did not say enough to indicate what direction my mind takes upon this very important subject. Gentlemen who have spoken upon this question have, it seems to me, miscon strued the position which the judiciary holds to the body politic. Our govern ment has been a government of majori. ties. The machinery of partyhaswrought both good and evil Lo the country. A question is started among the people in which they are all interested one way or the other. Men divide upon that ques tion, and after it has been discussed, an election has been held upont it, and a majority has decided in favor of it, it is regarded as a settled question for the time. This follows from what is called a representative government. And this is the right system to apply to an election of members of the General Assembly, and perhaps to an election of the executive. But the judiciary of the country holds no such relation to the questions which divide the people. The relation which a judge holds to the people is as diverse and as distinct from the relation which a member of the General Assembly holds, as anything that can be conceived of. A mnw; is elected to the General Assembly to carry out a measure, and to try an experiment, and upon the carrying out of the mneasulre and the trial of experiment, it mNust stand or fall. How much of the history of this country is written in that kind of character? Parties change. Whv? Because experiments fail. And God grant that that condition of things may last in our' country for many years ito come. IVIARCH 1 5) 1870'. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1219 CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION But, sir, when we have placed a man make men good judges they must be repupon the bench, we have placed him there resentatives of a political party; but I not to decide what effect a particular desire to be understood as saying that measure may have upon his party or upon the courts of the State are or should be the party in power, but we have placed created and organized for the benefit, not him there to settle eternal principles of of the judges, but of the people. I claim law and justice. We have placed him it is not necessary for the judges to be there to judge the people, not to judge a above the people, or to be independent of party. We have placed him there to de- and hold their offices in spite of the peoclare what the law is as applied to all the ple; nor is it necessary for them to be people of all parties, and to provide for above the political influences that conthe execution of the laws. He is, in no trol society. Judges are like legislative sense, a representative of a party. He officers in this, they are servants of the ought not to be the representative of a people. It is their business to protect the party, for no man can be a just judge if he people; and in their efforts to protect is a representative of a party. The man them they have to interpret and enforce who, upon the bench, undertakes to rep- the acts of the legislative department of resent a party there, perverts the very the State. I hold that it is best for the idea of a judge, and is entirely unfit for people, and best for the courts, that the the place he occupies. Sir, the exalted judges should be close to the people; position which a judge holds toward the that they be immediately accountable to people-I speak it with reverence-is the people, so that they may know the somewhat the position that the great God public wants, be better qualified to preholds toward the universe-the whole serve the relations which exist between people are his peculiar care. And, sir, the citizen and the State, and protect the everything we do here which is calcu- people in the enjoyment of all their lated to make politicians of judges or rights secured by law. judges of politicians, is a departure from We are told that judges must be above the best interests of the people we repre- political influences, that they must be sent. independent, must not be representatives I am amazed to hear gentlemen who, of parties-that it would be a departure like myself, are advancing to the meridian from our principles of government to of life, and are, perhaps, now looking down elect judges for short terms. I cannot its declivity, where they must take into see why all this is necessary or true. I consideration the inter sts of their chil- would not have a judge to be a politidren more than themselves, talking as cian, but he should be dependent on though the judiciary were but the repre- the people as other officers, and such desentative of a party, subject to be influ- pendence will not render him incompeenced by party sp)irit or by party elec- tent to act justly. As a general principle, tions. I hold that there is no consideration Now, sir, shorten the period of the likely to exist in the mind of a man judges' term of office, make it a political which will so induce him to act conoffice, and the man then elevated to the sistently, wisely and justly, as that conbench must be more or less than human if sciousness of being immediately and dihe can forget his party, when he remembers rectly responsible to the people for his that he must invoke that very party in a acts-that he must account to them, at an few years to re-elect him. No, sir, let us early day, for what he does. If judicial place our judges as far above party as decisions are rendered from co)nsiderathey can be placed; not above the people, tions of office-holding merely, then I can but above party. conceive why we should have'long terms Twelve years, I admit, looks like a' the longer the better; but if for the benelong time. Parties change in twelve fit of the people, I claim that the durayears. Men know that. The man who tion of the term of office will not, or at goes upon the bench to-day does not know least should not, operate in the least to where parties will be twelve years hence. control the judges in their opinions. He may judge with some degree of ac- I Will any gentleman say that the decicuracy where they will be five, or six, or sions of a court depend upon the term of seven years hence, but he cannot judge office of the judges, any more than the where they will be in twelve years; hence honest action of other officers depend on he has nothing in his mind, when ques- the length of their official terms? It tions come before him, but the good of the occurs to me that is wholly inconsistent. people. He need not look at what may How do we depart from the principles of be the result to him politically or offi government by having short terms of cially, because any effect it might have is judicial offices? It is understood, for inso remote as not to interest him; but he stance, that we must have a short term looks simply at the result that his de- for the Legislature. Yet the Legislature cisions will have upon the laws which has to deal with subjects that lie at the are to govern the people who now inhabit very foundation of society. It is the ofthis country, and those who are to come file of the Legislature to regulate, control after him. and protect all the departments of gov I hope, therefore, that the report of the ernment, under certain constitutional recommittee, in this respect, will be adhered strietions. The liberties, lives and safety to, and that we shall thereby give char- of the citizen depend upon the action of aeter to the judiciary by lifting it above the General Assembly. All the interests party influences and politics. of society depend upon, and are in the Mr. SPRINGER. Mr. Chairman: I hands of the General Assembly. And hope the amendment of the gentleman yet we limit the office of representative from Vermilion [Mr. Tincher] will be in the General Assembly to two years. adopted, and in thus expressing myself Shall it now be insisted that another I do not desire to be understood as mak- department of the government, whose ofing any effort to draw the judges of the flee is only to enforce or interpret the State into politics, or to control the judi- meaning of its action, must have a term ciary by political influences. I would of twelve years in order to administer not be understood as clawing that to ustice? Why, if the opinions of gentlemen who have spoken against the amendment are correct, judges must be above ordinary humanity, and have a higher crea tion. I apprehend this is not so. Judges, like all other officers, must be accountable to the people. As I have said, probably no inducement to just action is greater in the minds of men than the simple consciousness that they must account to the people for their action. I can see no reason why we should have more than a seven years' term for a supreme judge. I think that is long enough unless we extend it to the period of life. It may be best to appoint for life, but while the term is to be limited, let it not extend beyond seven years. It has been suggested that the growing interests of this State may necessitate short terms. The people do not propose to have unfair and unjust legislation fixed upon them. I mean, in plain terms, that they do not intend that these vast corporations which have sprung up among us, shall control them forever. They do not mean that the bands that have been fastened upon them by premature, unwise legislation, shall bind them for twelve years or longer; and if they cannot get a remedy for their grievances in the General Assembly, they will go into the courts; and if they cannot get it from the courts as they exist, they will create courts that will protect them, so that their great interests will be preserved. [Here the hammer fell]. Mr. TINCHER. Mr. Chairman: I only desire the floor a few moments. It is very strange, indeed, that men whose minds run to politics believe that everything conceals some political move, and see that this amendment brings the judiciary into politics on account of their election being every seven years, more than if it were twelve years. I am not much of a politician, consequently I see no danger to grow up from our having a chance to re-elect the judges every seven years. But men who have been in the cess-pool of politics may discover the corruption attached to the fallibilityof these men to be influenced by the demagogues who attend their caucus conventions. They may be alarmed, knowing their power over the judiciary, and that they hold them in the hollow of their hand. But I have seen no such evil in what little I have had to do with political life. I do not see that a judge, because he comes back to be re-elected and re indorsed, after a seven years' term, becomes any more under the influence of politics than if he were to come back every twelve years. It is possible that some distinguished gentlemen, who have practiced at the bar until they have reached fifty-five or sixty, or sixty five years, and have become a little tired of practice, would now like to climb on the bench to die there. I want to prevent any death occurring on the supreme bench, if I can. I want these judges to be elected every seven years, so that if we find such iniirmity creeping over* them that it will not do to re elect them, we can set them aside and give them time to die. I doubt not that the Judiciary Committee has giver this great consideration} and that it harmonizes in symmetry and beauty and elegance withP the balance of TUESDAYS 1220 MAROII15, 180. DEATES AD P~OEEDJ~G. 122 upon the side of the rights of the people; and that the people are going to have. Mr. Chairman, as I always regret to take up the time of the committee, and as it is very rarely that the hammer brings me down, I will maintain my rep utation by taking. my seat now. Mr. ROSS. Mr. Chairman: As there has been an effort made on the part of gentlemen to misinterpret the position that I took, in regard to the terms of judges, into one in favor of making judges polit ical instruments, I desire to say a word upon the subject. If there is anything I would hold in sovereign contempt, it would be a politic aljudge. The gentleman from Stephen son [Mr. Turner] and the gentleman from Adams [Mr. Browning] appear to be alarmed about running our judges into politics by electing them once in seven years. I believe, according to the report of the Judiciary Committee, which these two gentlemen have agreed to, and which has the approbation of the wisdom of the Judiciary Committee, circuit judges are to hold their term of office for six years. Now, if it would make a politician of a supreme judge, with three or four times the amount of territory, I ask if, according to their rule of argument, it would not make our cir cuit judges politicians right in our midst? I ask the gentlemen to reconcile these two arguments. But the truth is, it is no such a thing. Whenever a man makes himself an active politician upon the bench he receives the condemnation of the people and the con tempt of the bar. Such is the universal feeling. No men can make himself pop ular cr give himself strength for re election by dabbling in the dirty pool of politics. How is it with our present supreme judges? We elected Judge Walker a short time ago, in a district largely re publican, because he was not a partisan judge. Take Judges Walker and Breese now, and put them into the strongest republican districts in Illinois, and the people will indorse and elect them by overwhelming majorities. One cannot find a district so strongly democratic in the State of Illinois that it would not indorse and re-elect Judge Lawrence. This goes to show that the people do not want politicians, and will not elect politicians to the judiciary. The people hold in sovereign contempt a man who will go upon the bench for the purpose of m naking political decisions. so On what points arc political decisions tobe made in this country? I do not know of any political questions coming up before our courts. Gentlemen talk about the railroad questions and the ques- - tions between capital and labor. Are they political questions? I do not know that there has been any division upon those questions among political parties, but I must confess that when such a contest and such a~conflict comes, every instinct of my nature, every simpathy of my breast will place me upon the side of the people, and against the monopolies of tile country. It cannot be disguised that honest men and good lawyers differ in relation to these ques'ions. We have observed in the discussions upon this floor, a class of our able lawyers which, whenever we propose to put any restrictions upon the corporations of the country, are up at once, while a nother, equall y as good law yers, believes that these mammoth incor porations may be chained and restricted by force of legislative enactment. I ask if the people have not the right among these able men to determine who shall serve them upon the supreme bench of the State, and if they should not have that right to determine that question every seven years? I think an honest, good lawyer, when he is put upon the bench, is not a politician. The republican party, a few years ago, thought they would make a political court. Mr. TURNER. I would ask, Mr. Chairman, whether he would be a cor rupt man in dealing with the subject of corporations? Would you require your judges to decide questions involving their rights in accordance with popular opinion? Mr. ROSS. By no means. But the ideas of such a man run in a particular groove, and we want a good man whose ideas run in a different groove, and who is honest about it. I say that party attempted to reorgan ize the judiciary and make it political, and they called upon President Lincoln to make it political. In the exercise of his power, he took some of the most prominent republican lawyers in the United States, among them such as Chief Justice Chase, of Ohio, Judge Davis, of Illinois, and Judge Field, of California,, but as soon as the mantle dropped upon them, the politician dropped off; and there is no democrat in the length ~and breadth of the land, who would desire either one of those able and distinguish ed judges removed from the supreme bench of the United States. Why, sir,,.. our own Illinois Judge Davis, had been; but a short time upon the supreme bench, when hle rendered a decision upon a po litical question, that will endear him to the lovers.of free government as long as, our free institutions shall endure-as free — government shall endure. I am not afraid to trust such men upon the bench. Mr. TURNER. I would just ask the gentleman if the party that favored his elevation to the bench at that time, would not to-day, just on account of that decision, hurl him from power? Mr. ROSS. I do not think they would, Mr. TURNER. I know they would. He is to-day as unpopular with that party as Judge Taney ever was. Mr. R~OSS. I know the great mass of the people indorse these decisions. They stand by an honest and incorruptible judiciary. They hold in sovereign ontempt a man upon the supreme bench, either of the State or the nation, who will degrade himself by making political decisions, merely for partisan purposes. :Now, Mr. Chairman, my judgment is that this amendment should be made, and still I do not look with any degree of confidence for success in this measure. W~hen we have already determined that we. will elect a Legislature but once in two years, when we have already determined that our State officerss shall hold their offices for the ternm of four years, and then shall not be re elected, I do not expect that this amendment will be adopted. Men who are selected by the people for State offices cannot be re-elect~ ed. ! know that ulp in our country the* re DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. .11&RCia 15) 1870. 1221 the report, and I am sorry to have to at tack it, but I feel it to be my duty. I have as high regard for the j Lidiciary of Illinois as any one who is not a hero worshipper; and I am not. I have a just appreciation of the (-,ood qualities of any body, whether a j ud-e or constable. But I know of no difference between the two if they are good officers.. We have, in this district, a good julge. The people had sense enough to re-elect him a short time aoo, continuing a -ood judge in office. if he desires, and does not get too old, thcv will indorse him, perhaps, a third time. I have no objection to it. The people are competent to judge about these things. What I want to do, is to prevent these old plagues from getting on the bench. I never heard of a man getting too old or infirm to sit upon the bencli-in his own opinion -especially if he was elected for twelve years. We want to reach them every seven years, and give them one more indorsement if they are right, as I before stated. I want to fix the age at which a man shall cease to occupy the bench. I do not know whether it ought to be a hundred years or under [laughter], but there is a point at which every man, if he lives long enouc.,h, begins to become infirm, when he is not competent to be a j udg e any longer. The gentleman from McLean [Alr. Benja,min] referred to his distinguished friend -who was obliged to leave the bench at sixty or sixty five. Perhaps he rendered the very best service he could. Chancellor Kent, has, no doubt, been the means of making very many brioht lawyers in this country, and I do not know how many of them have strayed into this Convention [laughter] that have got nearly all their knowledge from Chancellor Kent. I think it was a great blessing that he got off the bench and let his light shine to the world around. It may be possible that the time'will soon come when we will want to take some of our supreme judges off the bench, to give them an opportunity of giving to the world the knowledge they have been so long gaining, and I want to fix the time, so that they shall be compelled to retire, whether they want to do so or not. -Now, not being a lawyer, I may be out of order; but I have, perhaps, been out of order before, and I do not mind it a great deal. llv distinguished friend from Stephenson [Mr. Turner], I know, is an old politician, an old expert, witl, long experience, and I can see very readily how it is that he discovers that this will ran riaht into politics, because be is a politician, evidently, and can see the disadvantages. But I cannot see that it is to hurt anybody, to let the people have a chance at their 4'serva-nts," as they might be called; for I do not regard them as above other people. -They are just simply servants of the people. It may be possible that the judges, at some time may begin to run in a certain groove, in their decisions. They may say that these railroads and other corporations have charters that we can-not reach. As was remarked by the gentleman from 3Tadison [inir. SpriDger], if we get such a judiciary upon the bench, we want one more guess at them, because we wish these questions settled, and wish them sett 306 1q22 COSTITUTIOAL COYETiOX TUESDAY, The committee divided, when, there being thirty-one in the affirmative and seventeen in the negative, the amendment was agreed to. So the blank was filled with "nine." The CHAIRMAN. The question is now on the substitute of the gentleman from Sangamon [Mr. Hay], to strike out all in the fifth section down to the word "elected," and insert a substitute. Mr. HAINES, of Cook. Mr. Chairman: The substitute, I believe, proposes to make seven districts in the State, one judge to be elected from each. I rise to say that I am opposed to the substitute. Like the gentleman from Schuyler [Mr. Fox], I am very much wedded to the old Constitution where it has worked well, and am only for change where we find that it is necessary. But the gentleman from Fulton [Mr. Ross] says this is a fast age. I admit it; and I am sorry to say that it is. We no sooner put our stake down at a certain point, than we want to take it up and put it in another place. We have not stability enough; but one of the things that should be permanent is the judiciary of our State. These two sections, the one, as we have passed it, and the other, as we propose to amend it, look like a mess of hotch potch. We have passed one section, saying the Legislature may make districts of a certain size and number. Now we propose, in the first election, to make seven districts. Why not leave it as it is and let the Legislature change it, if it is found to be necessary hereafter? I believe in having one district large enough so that we can select out of a large piece of the State, the best talent we have. As it is now, we oblige the electors to select from a small district. So far as my vote shall go in this matter, politics shall not control me in the least. I do not care whether we get four republicans and three democrats, or four democrats and three republicans. I am going to vote for what I regard as the best interests of the people, without regard to politics. Mr. ROSS. Mr. Chairman: I desire to move an amendment to put Clinton county in the lower district. It will be recollected that this county was left flo ating around, by the report of the special committee. u rMr. PEIRCE. Mr. Chairman: If that amendment should be adopted, putting Clinton county in the first district, it will then be necessary to make another change, in order to equalize the districts, changing another county from the first to the second district. It was proposed by the committee, that if Clinton county should be put in the first, Wabash should go. with the second district. This would make them nearly equal in population. aeMr. ROSS. Mr. Chairman: I have no objection to that. I make my motion simply to put that county in the southern district, for the reason that it is the residence of Judge Breese, and is the portio n of the State with which he has been identified since he was a young man; and T from what I can gather, it is his preference that this should be done. The CHAIRMAN. The Chair will state that the committee had that under consideration, and it was one of the questions thought proper to be left to the Committee of the Whole to consider, in CONSTITUTIONAL COINVENTION 1222 T-LTESDAY, connection with the fourth and fifth sections of this report. Mr. MEDILL. Mr. Chairman: I would move an amendment-that Wabash county be chadued to the second district, and that Clinton county be attached to the first district. It was the understanding in the committee that if one change was made, the other should-be made also. Mr. ROSS. Mr. Chairman: I should call for a division of the question, but it is just as well to vote on the first and then [to Mr. Medill], make your motion. The CHAIRMAN. The question is on changing the county of Clinton from the second to the first district. Mr. UNDERWOOD. Mr. Chairman: Districts ought to be put into a proper shape. The CHAIRMAN, The question is only upon the county of Clinton. Mr. UNDERWOOD. Mr. Chairman: I understand that it would be necessary to equalize the districts, and it should be done on the principle of population. Mr. ROSS. Mr. Chairman: I would say to the gentleman that there would not be any large preponderance by making this chadge; but there is no obj'ection to cutting off other counties to make it up. The CHAIRMAN. The question is on changing the county of Cliuo'n to the first district. Mr. UNDERWOOD. Mr. Chairman: I call for a division. If these kangaroo districts are to be made, I want to understand it. A division was ordered. The committee divided, when, there being twenty-four in the affirmative and thr(!e in the negative, the motion of Mr. Ross was agreed to. Mr. MEDILL. Mr. Chairman: I now move that Wabash county be attached to the second district. The change ought to be made to secure equality of population. I would say that the gentleman from Clark [Alr. Scholfield] spoke quite strong. ly in favor of it in committee, and it was a general understanding that in case Clinton should be transferred to the first, Wabash should go to the second district, because all tl-ie judicial relations of Wabash county are connected with Lawrence, Crawford, and Richland counties. I be publicaus said that some men in the Convention wanted their places, and were apprehensive they could not beat them in the republican convention, and that they would beat them in the Coiastitutional Convention. I do not know whether there is any truth in this or not; but this is what we are doing now in my humble judgment. There is no dangerin submitting these great questions to the intelligence of the people. We are living in a fast age. We cannot afford to wait twelve years for these old men to die off before we can get rid of them, and if it becomes necessary to reverse their decisions, and have a J'Udiciary that will imbibe the spirit of the age and act in accordance with the, progress of the people [Here the hammer fell]. The CHAIRMAN. The question is upon the amendment of the gentleman from Vermilion [3ilr. Tincherl. Mr. FOX. I move to amend by inserting "nine" instead of "seven." The CHAIRMAN. The question is upon the amendment of the gentleman from Schuyler [Alr. Fox] to the motion of the gentleman from Vermilion [,Nlr. Tincher]. Mr. HAY. I call for a division of the question. The CHAIRMAN. The question will first be upon the motion to strike out the word "twelve," wherever it occurs in the section. A division was ordered. The committee divided, when, there being thirty in the affirmative and sevenenteen in the negative, the motion was agreed to. Mr. FOX.- - Mr. Chairman: Before the amendment is submitted I would like to submit a few remarks. I think it is not prudent to make too many innovations on the old Constitution. We have lived for a number of years under a provision that supreme,judges shall hold office for nine years. Mr. TINCHER. If the gentleman will witl.draw that until we try "seven" .-and fail, we will let the word''nine" .go in. Mr. FOX. If the gentleman will witharaw "sevein," we will find no difficulty in inserting "nine." I was proceeding to say that the su reme.udaes have been holding under a MAROH 15, 1870. DEBATES AD POCEEDIGS. 1223 gamon-with 300,000, and the northern districts have 305,000 apiece. As chairman of the committee, I care nothing about it, and I am willing these Ichanges be made. I want the gentlemen who feel interested in these changes to have their way, and settle the matter to their mutual satisfaction. Mr. RICE. Mr. Chairman: It is evi dent that the change would not make the inequality much more marked than it would be any how. We cannot, on ac count of the county boundaries, get at these divisions so as to make them pre-o cisely equal. Practically, the difference in numbers amounts to nothing. For thereasons I have stated, I think that the people of Christian county, whom I represent upon this floor, would very much prefer to remain in the district to which Montgomery county is at present assigned. Mr. MEDILIL. Mr. Chairman: I will withdraw my motion to attach Wabash county to the second district, to accommodate the gentleman from Montgomery. Mr. RICE. Then, sir, I move that Christian county be added to the second division in place of Clinton, which has been added to the first division. Mr. MERRIAM. Mr. Chairman: As striking Christian county from the third district makes a vacancy, as I understand it, to be filled, I move that Tazewell county be detached from the fourth district to fill the vacancy. I think it is very proper that it should go with the third judicial district, from the fact that the counties of Tazewell and Logan and Sangamon have for some time constituted a senatorial district, are all in the same congressional district, and have also been in the same grand judicial division. I suppose, to fill the blank well, Tazewell county will just about compensate for the loss of Christian. Mr. MEDILL. Mri. Chairman: Before the vote is taken, it would be well to consider the effect. If we detach Tazewell county from the fourth district, and add it to the third district, it will make the third district about three hundred and twenty-five thousand, and leaves the fourth district two hundred and seventy-five thousand. It will make the Sangamon district between forty thousand and fifty thousand greater population than the Adams district. Mr. PARKS. I want to ask the gentleman if he made allowance for the act that all the difference would be the difference of population between Chris tian and Tazewell counties? He has made no allowance for the loss of Christian county. Mr. MEDILL. Certainly. The district, before Christian was detached, had three hundred and sixteen thousand, as owill be found by the footings of the committee. Taking out Christian, leaves two hundred a'd ninety-nine thousand. Now, add Tazewell and we have three hundred and twenty-four thousand, and the Adams district will be reduced to two hundred and seventy-five thousand. Mt. PARKS. All the difference is between the population of Christian county and the population of Tazewell county, which is but a few thousand —only about eight thousand. Mr. MEDILL. It makes a difference of about fifty thousand betwen the popu century. Their relations, political and social, are as intimate as those of any othe r two counties in t he St ate. When this report came in, I did not know that it would separate them. I wish to avoid that, if possible, without incommoding anybody else. As chang inog one county from the second division may make it necessary to detach one from the third, and add it to the second, I suggest that this part of the report be recommitted, that the committee may consider these changes. Mr. MEDILL. That is hardly neces sary. It can be settled in a few moments here. Mr. RICE. Then, Mr. Chairman, I move that Christian county be attached to the second district, instead of Wabash. The CHAIRMAN. The question now is first what county shall be taken from the first and placed in the second. A motion to take a county from the third division would not be in order. Mr. RICE. Mr. Chairman: The committee were divided and did not decide on this question as to Clinton county. It being necessary, to equalize the population, that an additional county should be added to the second division, the question is whether Wabash, taken from the first, shall be added, or Christian, from the third. The CHAIRMAN. The question is what county, to remove the excess from the first division, shall be added to the second? Mr. RICE. I did not suppose it made any difference where it came from. Mr. HAIY. Mr. Chairman: I understand that what the gentleman from Montgomery [Mr. Rice] wishes to accomplish, is to retain Christian county in the second division-to detach it from the third division, and attach it to the second. That compensates the second for the County of Clinton, and attaching Christian county to the second, compensates the second for the loss of Clinton county. Now, there are reasons that have been alluded to by the gentleman from Monltgomery [MIr. Rice], why, probably, the relations of that county should not be broken up, and so far as I represent any portion of the third grand division I would like to have the views of the gentleman accommodated in that respect It may involve the necessity of finding a compensatory county for the third grand division, or it mlay have to be left without its complement of population. Mr. MEDILL. If the Chair will permit, I will state the effect the change will have on each grand district. The first district, as reported by the committee, without Clinton county, has about 300,000 inhabitants, Ean the seco>nd a little less than 314,000. Now, if we change Clinton county into the second district, and let Wabash stand, the first will have 314,000 and the second 300,000. If, to compenasate,, we put Wabash into the first, then those two districts will each have 307,000. They comprise exactly the first grand division. Now, if we!et Wabash remain with the first district, that district will have 314,000. If we change Christian county out of the third into the second, the second district will have 314,~~~t and the first and second will then each have 314,000. It will leave the third with 300,000, and the fourth —Sa~ lation of these two districts, which is a much greater inequality than between any other districts. Mr. ROSS. As one of the representa tives of the fourth district, I have no ob jection to the change. It would leave us a little short of the proper population, to. take Tazewell off, but I do not care anything about it, if the committee desire to make the change. Mr. PARKS. The only reason for making the change with regard to Chris tian county, is the reason given by the gentleman from Montgomery [Ar. Rice], in reference to the relation of that county with the other counties —its judicial, po litical and social relations. The CHAIRMAN. The question is upon the motion of the gentleman from Tazewell [.Nr. Merriam], to detach Taze well county from the fourth district and attach it to the third. A division was ordered. The committee divided; when, there being thirtv-one in the affirmative and five in the negative, the motion was agreed to. Mr. HAY. Mr. Chairman: These changes will make some further amend ments in the substitute necessary. The change in regard to the county of Clinton will require that the provision in regard to elections should be changed from the first to the second. The CHAIRMAN. The question is upon the amendment of the gentleman from Sangamon [Mr. Hay]. The amendment was offered as a substitute for a portion of the section. It can be treated as an amendment. It makes no difference in fact. Mr. HAINES, of Cook. We have a report of a select committee, to whom all these matters were referred, and they made what may be truly called a doubleheaded report, i. e, it had two plans to it. I understand that the gentleman's proposition is to adopt one. The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman's proposition is not necessarily connected with the report of the special committee. He has moved it as an amendment. He moves to strike out in section five, all after the word "northern," in the second line, and down to the word "elec. ted," in the tenth line, and insert his amendment. HTe would have the right to do this, even had there been 110 action of the special committee on the subject of j udicial divisions. MIr. HAINES, of Cook. I would like to know, Mr. Chairman, where this report of the special committee is. The CHAiRM~AN. It has been acted upon during the past few minutes, and perfected. The special committee, who reported thlis morning, repotrted on judicial districts. That report left the question as to where Clinton county should be placed, for this commlittee to act upon in connection with sections four and five. They have already acted upon it, and placed Clinton county in the first district, and now the gentleman, in accordance with the report, mloves this amendment to the fifth section as it stanlds. Mr. IIAINES, of Cook. Then there is another side to this question, and that is what I want to get at. As I understand, the committee made substantially two reports. One was that the State should be divided into three grand divisions. t t t t I t 1 r t I 8 a s t MARCH 151 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1223 1224 COSTJT LITIOXAL OONEXTIOX TUESDAY, trate finally all the business of the supreme court in the city of Springfield. Ultimately, that is where we will landour supreme court will be held here instead of being distributed into three districts, as it now stands, and for that reason I hope the committee will vote the proposition down. The CHAIRNIAN. The question is on theamendment of the gentleman from Sangamon [Mr. Hay] to section five. diMr. CHURCH. Mr. Chairman: I would like to call attention to the first clause in the substitute. If I am not mistaken, its meaning is such that it will conflict with a clause in section four, which provides that the grand divisions may be changed or altered by the General Assembly. The substitute to section five provides that the grand divisions shall be preserved as they are now. I move to insert the words "until otherwise provided by law." tThe motion was agreed to. Mr. WAIT. Mr. Chairman: Iam not quite ready to vote upon this substitute yet. I move that LaSalle county be stricken out of the fifth district, and Rock Is land be inserted. The motion was not agreed to. The CHAIRMAN. The question is upon the adoption of section five as amended by the gentleman from Sangamon [Mr. Hay]. The Clerk read section five as amended, as follows: The present grand divisions shall be preserved, and be denominated, southern, central, and northern. The State, until otherwise provided by law, shall be divided into seven districts for the election of judges, as follows: First Distr-ict-To be composed of the counties of St. Clair, Washington, Jefferson, Wayne, Wabash, Edwards, White, Hamilton, Franklin, Perry, Randolph, Monroe, Jackson, Williamson, Saline, Gallatin, Hardin, Pope, Union, Johnson, Alexander, Pulaski, Massac, and Clinton. Secon d District-To be composed of the counties of Madison, Marion, Bond,Clay, Richland, Lawrence, Crawford, Jasper, Effingham, Fayette, Montgomery, Macoupin, Shelby, Cumberland, Clark, Greene, Jersey, Calhoun, and Christian. Third uDistr?ict-To be composed of the counties of Sangamon, Macon, Logan, DeWitt, Piatt, Douglass, Champaign, Vermilion, McLean, Livingston, Ford, Iroquois, Coles, Edgar, Moultrie and Tazewell. eFourth -District-To be composed of the counties of Fulton, McDonough, Hancock, Schuyler, Brown, Adams, Pike, Mason, Mepa nard, Morgan, Scott and Cass. beFifth D)strict-To be composed of the counties of Knox, Warren, Henderson, Mercer THenry, Stark, Peoria, Marshall, Putnam, BureaU, LaSalle, Grundy and Woodford. Sixth District-To be composed of the counties of Whitcside, Carroll JoDaviess, Stephenson, Winnebago, Boone, McHenry Kane, Kendall, DeKaib, Lee, Ogle and Rock Island; and the TSeCven'th District-To be composed of the counties of Lake, Cook, Will,Kankakee and DuPage. And that at the time of voting on the adoption of this Constitution, one judge of the supreme court shall be elected by the electors thereof in each of said districts, numbered one, three, six and seven, and who shall hold their offices for the term of twelve years, from the first Monday of June, A. D. 1870. And whenever the judicial divisions for the election of said judges shall be altered, increased or diminished, the same shall be done upn on the rule of equality of population, as nearly as county boundaries will permit, and of equal apportionment of judges, according to population. The question being upon the adoption of section five, as amended} a division was ordered. The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman is correct, and if the amendment of the gentleman fro m Sanganon [Mr. Hay] is v oted down, then the other question comes before the committee for its action. Mr. HAINES, of Cook. If this is an amendment, then I propose to take up and offer the other side of that report as a substitute. There is a great difference between the two. One proposes, as I said, to divide the State into three grand divisions, and the other to divide it into seven districts. The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman is laboring under a mistake, because the present section provides for three grand divisions, and the amendment of the gentleman from Sangamon [Mr. Hay] proposes to strike out the three grand divisions, and substitute seven divisions; therefore, by voting down the amendment of the gentleman from Sangamon [Mr. Hay] the report will stand with three grand divisions, as the gentleman from Cook [Mr. Haines] desires. All the gentleman will have to do, is to vote down the amendment of the gentleman from Sangamon [Mr. Hay]. Mr. HAINES, of Cook. The difference between the report and the section as it stands, is this: The committee in their report upon the grand divisions, proposes to make a change as between them as they now exist and as they would exist if their report was taken, keeping the grand divisions. I am opposed to these seven districts, and I am for the three grand divisions. Mr. WAIT. Mr. Chairman: We are acting prematurely, I suppose. A special committee was appointed for the purpose of giving some information to this committee. They made a report this morning, and it was laid upon the table and ordered to be printed. Now, we are acting upon this report substantially without knowing what it is, and, for one, I am not prepared to act upon this subject. I do not know what counties are included in the several districts that the committee have made, and I believe that this matter ought to be postponed until we have some understanding upon the subject, and for that reason, I will move that the committee do now rise, report progress, and ask leave to sit again. Mgr. HALY. I have understood that it is very desirable the Convention should put this judiciary article into somec shape before our recess is taken. The CHAIRMVAN. The question is not debatable. Mr. KING. I rise to a point of order. I would like to know if the motion of the gentleman from Henry [Mir. Wlait] is not debatable? The CHAIRM~AN. The Chair has al ready decided that it is not. The question being on the motion to rise, report progress, and ask leavie to si.t again at half-past ten o'clock to-morrow morning, a division was ordered. The committee divided, when, there being eighteen ill the affirmativev and twenty-six in the negative, the motion was not agreed to. ["Question,.t Question.'] Mgr. ]gcCOY. Mr. Chairman: I hops that the substitute of the gentleman from S3angamon [M~r. Hay] will not be adopts ed, and my reason fbr that is simply this: If I understand the scope and intention of this proposition, they-aere to concert The committee divided, when, there being thirty-three in the affirmative and four in the negative, it was agreed to. SALARY OF JUDGES.' Mr. BROWNING. Mr. Chairman: Sectioln seven was stricken out, which leaves the compensation Qf the judges of the supreme court unprovided for. I move to insert the following. The Clerk read the section offered by Elr. Browning, as follows: From and after the adoption of this Constitution, each judge of the supreme court shall receive a salary of five thousand dollars per annum, payable quarterly, until otherwise p rovided by law. ["QuestioD!" "Question!"] Mr. HAINES, of Cook. Mr. Chairman: Gentlemen are crying "question" as though this were not a matter of much importance. But I take the liberty and privilege of a member on this floor to give my opinions. I am opposed to change in this matter; I am satisfied to have it left as it is. I apprehend if we undertake to pile up dollars and cents in this Constitution, we will find the people reckoning up the figures, when we come to submit it, and that they will reject our work just on account of the dollars and cents in it. We bave got to a turn when we must husband our resources. We have got to practice economy and reduce our taxes, and I am willing to leave this matter as it is, so that when the Legislature meet, if they choose and think we can aff)rd it, they can give these judges five thousand dollars- but I am opposed to this committee doing it. I am opposed to fixing salaries in the organic law of the State. I do not think it would look well. That is all I wish to say. Mr. BROWNING (in his seat). Why till the Legislature meets? Mr. TINCHER. Mr. Chairman: I indorse the gentleman from Cook [Mr. Haines] this time. Let them run as the circuit judges do. How does this provide? Will the Clerk read the substitute? The Clerk read the substitute offered by Mr. Browning, as follows: From and after the adoption of this Constitution, each judge of the supreme court shall receive a salary of five thousand dollars per annum, payable quarterly, until otherwise provided by law. ]~Ir. TINCHER. Mr. Chairman: I move to amend, by striking out five thousand dollars, and inserting four thousand dollars. Mr. ANDERSON. Mr. Chairman: I mlove to amend by inserting three thouzsand dollars. Mr. HAINES, of Lake. Mr. Chlairman: I muove to amend by inserting the same salary now allowed by law. The CHAIRMAN. Two amendments are already pending. The last amendmenlt, therefore, the Chair decides to be out of order. M~r. WELLS. Mr. Chairman:. I call for a division of the -question. Let us vote first upon striking out. The CHAIRMAN. The question is first upon striking out five thousand dollars. A division was ordered. The committee divided, when, there being twenlty-six in the affirmativee and twenty-two in the negative, the motion to strike out was agreed to. Mr. TINCHER. I now move to fill the blank with four thousandi dollars. I CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION TUESDAYI 1224 MARcH 15, 1870. t)LBATIS AXD PO'DJNGS. 1225 They struck out that relaming to the S sh preme jucges and left a bliank until we should resulie tlle considerati)on of that branch of the judiciary. They struck out that replating to the circuit judges and inserted that which I have already ad vevted to. We now propose to do pre cisely the same thing, and nothing more, in reference to the supreme judges. MIr. PARKS. Mr. Chairman: What has just now been said by the gentleman from Adams [Mr. Browning] is what 1i wish to call the attention of the gen tlem an from McHenry [Mr. Church] to, It seems to me that to be consistent, we must either treat the supreme judges in this matter ais we have the circuit judges, or we must change our action with re gard to the circuit judges. But if we let that section remain, in which we al low the circuit judges $3,000 per annum, until the Lext meeting of the Legislature, then it certainly is not unreasonable to al low the supreme judges $4,000. It is only a few months, at most, and I cannot see how it can do much harm. I am not very particular about it, but I like to see consistency. I was not originallv in favor of the $3,000, but I am tor treati.,g both courts alike. Mir. UNDERWVOOD. It will be seen by loo)king at section forty-seven, that it provides tbhat All officers, wherenot otherwise provided for in this article, shall perform such duties and receive such compensation as is or may be provided by law. Probably that would cover the case of the supreme judges, and give them their present compensation; but perhaps it is as well that a specific provision should be inserted. If it were to be permanent, I should want to put in $5,000; but it being for only a short time, I would be willing to alxee to $4,000, as their present compensation. pWe have fixed the salaries of circuit judges at $3.000. Our circuit judge iro the St Clair circuit gets $3 500. 1 regret exceedinigly that his compensation has been reduced Supreme judges ought not to c(ot more than they do now, if circuit judges get less than heretofore. The CHAIRMAN. The Chair now recollects that the attention of the commnittee was called to section forty-seven when the report was first considered, t nd on account of the provision just referred to, section seven was stricken out. Therefore no substitute is now in order, and the proposition of the gentleman from Adams [Mr. Browning] can only be offered as an additional section. Mr. BROWNING. Then I offer it as an additional section, Mr. Chairman. Mr. BROMWELL. Mr. Chairman: i would inquire of the gentleman from Adams [Mr. Browning], who offers the amendment, why he does not provide as to the supreme judges, the same as in the ecase of the circuit judges, with regard to to their emoluments, such as docket fees and the like s Mr. BROWNING. There is a general provision that fully covers that. Mr. BROM:WELL. Mr. Chairman: What I wish to call attention to is this: The section concerning circuit judges says, that after their salaries have been fixed by law they shall not receive any other emoluments, fees or perquisites whatever. Mr. SKINNER. The sixteenth section covers it. It says no judge of any court Mr. WELLz3. Bier. Chairman: I move four thousand, five hudred doLlars-that, I believe, is the highest number yet sug gested. T he CiTAIR:,N. Tlsae re ar e already pendling the amendment of the gentleman from ~Vermi,i.on [Mr. Ti.icherl, and thle ame-n*dment of' the gentlemaen from Jef ferson [iMr. Arnderson]. Mr. CODY. Mr. Chairman: It is com peteut to ma)ve as many amendments to a number aes the committee please, is it not, to fill a bla,nk? The CO[I,AI'RMAN. The gentleman may be right in that. i~[r CIHURCH. Mr. Chairman: It seeny evident that we are in the midst of a filaaelM-ii1 revolution. If we refer back to the m,eting of this (Convention, and compare the price of gold coin then and now, we. will notice a very great change. This Conventiou has been timid on questions of salaries, for thl-e reason, I suppose, that there is so great uncertainty as to future values. We ought to leave something to the General Assembly. I do not know anythi Dg we corald leave them with greater safety than tae question of salaries. Som-e time'ato that question arose, and as a distinc t proposi.tion aNwas discussed pretty thor,oughlly, and it then seemed the desire that that question should be left to the Gene(,ral Assembly, believing undoubtedly tha. t by tile time they will have met a-ud acted, the fia,n-iti,ial policy of this country will I)ecomne settled, and the value of me hey and other property will become set. tled. Therefore, without laying down here the figures in dollars and cents. where it is uninecessarv, and unusual, we could with sifetv an[d propriety defer this subject to more settled time. I hope we shaill not insert a,ny figures, unless we are prepared to adopt the policy of revising all the work, and fixing the salaries of all the officers of the State, thus making the par-Rs of the Constitution consistent with eac.-h other. Ifr B F 0 iNG MJr. Cha,i ran: The gentleman from c;IcHenry [Mr. Church] cannot have bestowed that strict attention upon the reading of the amendiment, which he is in the habit of giving to subjects under consideration here. This is a mere temporary provision until the nlext meeting of the General Assem~bly, and leaveCs the entire subject of salarie~s tar them. It is necessary to make somle provision f~r the payment of the Judg,es in the interval between the adoption of this Consctitution and the me-etirlg of the General Assembly, otherwise they will have no means of subsistenec for themselves anid their families. Wh~en the sections relating to circuit judges were. under consideration, the provisi, ml in the report of the committee, touching their salaries} was striken out, and a provision was inserted precisely like this: That until otherwise provided by law, the-judges of the circuit court should receive salaries of $3,00)0 each, per annul~m, leaving that under the control of the Genleral Assembly, as we propose to leave this. But there must be some provisionl made for the inter val between the adoption of the Constitution and the meeting of the General Assemnbly. The Com~mittee of the Whole was not willing to accept, in reference either to the circuit or sulpreme judges, what w~ reported by the Judiciary Committee. 807 ATA-Rell 15, 1870. DEBATES AND PROCIC EDI-,NGS. 122i'D shall receive a-oy other compensation, etc., inteDdiDg to e,.ibi-ace all j u(Ige,,3. Mr. CI-IU'-,ICH. The explanation given by the gentleman from Adari-.s [Mr. .Browiaing] and the gentlelr.,aii from Logan [.Nlr. Parks] does not el-i,-.nge my views in regard to what I think tl,.e duty of tl-!e Committee of the Whole oii this question of salaries. It is true a provision similar to this was inserted by the Committ,-le of the Whole, when the committee was verv small. I have th-ou,,ht that perhaps the Convention would not concur in that ameddriieiit, and therefore the provision relating to circuit udces would be left the same as the report here provides for supreme judges. The reasons given for niakirig the temporary provision, do not apply with any force- is it supposed, sir, that the Constitution will be adopted IODG enough before the meeting of the Gelieral Assembly, to make it necessary that we should make provision for salaries during the ii.,.terval? I suppose there will be ample time given after this Convention shall have closed its labors, if it ever Shall conclude to close them, for the consideration of the result of our labors by the people. If so I cannot conceive that the Constitution van be submitted to the people for their ratification or rejection, until a very short time before the meeting of the General Assembly, that shall meet either under this Constitution or the old one, as the case may be. Is it ilecessary then, to make provision for the four additional judges which this Constitution provides, for the short interval of one or two months? At the most it will not exceed two or three months before the Legislature will find it its duty to act upon it.- and until the Legislature does act upon it, the compensations of all the j udges that are now in office in the State are provided for. It was the desire of the committee, I believe, and my opinion is that it should be the policy of this Convention, to leave that question of compensation untoticlied. It is a question of figi-ires. It is a question proper for legislation, ar,,d safer for us to leave ulichauged, unaltered, so that t cse judges will continue to receive the same compensation they uow re,-eive. Certainly we may trust the General Assembly to provide such com ensation for the'ud es that shall be 1q26 CONSTITIJTIONAL Co XTIO EDNESI)AY Almighty God, Thou dost Thy will in the armies of heaven and among the children of men. In Thy hand is the lite, and the breath, and the destiny of each of us. Every good and perfect gift comes down from Thee, and unto Thee we desire to lift up our hearts in thankfulness for all the mercies we have enjoyed and are still receiving. We now thank Thee for Thy goodness unto us, and unto this Convention during this session, and all the days it has been together. We thank Thee that so few of its members have been called away from earth, that Thou hast vouchsafed to them health and strength in so good a measure. We beseech Thee to be with them this day and bless them in the duties devolving upon them: and when they shall soon separate to go to their homes, let Thy kind providence golwith them; let the days of recess be days of blessing; and in health and strength bring them together again for the duties which devolve upon them. And 0, our G(od, grant to each of us to perform every duty in Thy fear, to Thy glory and for the good of our fellow men. And when our labor is done on earth, and when we come to our final account, may it be to hear the blessed announcement,' Well done, thou good and faithful servant." We ask and offer all through Jesus Christ, our Redeemer. Amen. READING OF THE JOURNAL. The Secretary proceeded to lead the journal of the last day's proceedings, when Mr CARY. Mr. President: I move that the further reading of the journal be dispensed with. The motion was agreed to. QUESTION OF PRIVILEGE. Mr. FOX. Mr. President: I rise to a privileged question. I find in the proceedings of Friday, March 11, 1870, that the honorable gentleman from Stephenson [Mr. Turner] in making some explanation i n regard to a report of the meeting of the Committee on Federal Relations, as given by a correspondent in the Chicago Tribune, unIintentionally, I have no ooubt, misrepresents my views, and I am afraid his explanation will place me in a position that I cannot occupy in regard to my action as one of the Committee on Federal Relations. I was confined to a sick bed at the time, or would then have made the explanation. The gentleman from Stephenson [Mr. Turner] said: In the first place, section one was adopted by a unanimous vote of the committee-not a single member voting against it, or saying one word against it. section three was likewise adopted with but one dissenting voice, and that dissenting voice was with a sort of explanation that may clear away the doubts in regard to it. I think the record of the proceedings will show-at least, the secretary of that committee [Mr. Wendling] will remem m eer-that I opposed all those resolutions first, second and third. As far as the third is concerned, I do not think any soxt of explanation would change my views in regard to it. I opposed the first on the ground of expediency; in fact, I considered it perfectly futile, and, I may say, absurd, to insert such an article in the State Constitution. Even if I could indorse the principle as correct, I considered it entirely out of place in a State Constitution. Its proper sphere would be in the Constitution of the United States. Without attempting to give my views on extenso on this subject, reserving that right when the report comes up for con sideration, I will just say this in reply to another remark of the gentleman, in which he said there were certain "axiomatic principles of government which, It should s ay, "no other compensation than his salary.": If the commi ttee will take up that s ection, I will propose to amend it. Mr. SKINNER. I have no objection to it. Mr. BROMWELL. Mr. Chairman: I ask unanimous consent, if it be in order, to propose this amendment. The CHAIRMAN. By unanimous consent the committee can do almost anything. M;. ANTHONY. Mr. Chairman: It has seemed to me from the very first that there should be, as stated by several gentlemen the other day, a provision in the judiciary article providinJg in general terms for the salaries of the judges of the supreme and circuit courts. Now, what we have under discussion, at' the present time, relates to the temporary pay of the judges. We have, in section seven, and also in section sixteen, these questions of the salary all mixed up. What I would propose in the section under discussion, is an amendment which I hold in my hand. What we have under discussion now relates merely to the temporary compensation. With the permission of the gentleman from Coles [Mr. Bromwell] I will offer this. Mr. BROMWELL. I believe that I have the floor. Mr. TINCHER. If the two gentlemen will allow me for a moment, I will make a motion that the committee now rise. The CHAIRMAN. The motion is not in order. Mr. ANTHONY. I would offer the following amendment, which I will read: The judges of the supreme and circuit courts shall receive such salaries, payable quarterly, as shall be prescribed by law, which shall not be altered during their term of office; and said judges shall receive no other allowance or emolument. Mr. BROMWELL. I make this question of order, viz: That the amendment is not germane to the question before the committee. I The CHAIRMAN. These are the additional proposed sections. There is no question before the committee. Mr. BROMWELL.- I asked unanimous consent, which was given, and while I was about offering the proposition the gentleman from Cook [Mr. Anthony] rose and proceeded. The CHAIRMAN. By unanimous consent section sixteen can be considered in any other way. Mr. ANDERSON. I move the commit tee now rise, report progress, and ask leave to sit again to-morrow morning at half past ten o'clock. The motion was agreed to. ADJOURNMENT. Mr. SHARP. I move the Convention do now adjourn. The motion was agreed to. So the Convention (at six o'clock and Ifive minutes) adjourned. in common, all enlightened men may approve," that I may not be "enlightened," but I deny that the three sections, taken in the concrete, enunciate any "axiomatic principles" of this government. They merely announce a political dogma which, in my humble judgment, should it ever be succ essfully established as the policy of this government, will subvert a republican form of government. I think it is a dogma entirely at variance with the Constitution of the United States, as understood by our forefathers. I merely'make these remarks in order that I may not be committed to the report, or any part of the report, of the Committee on Federal Relations. - PERSONAL EXPLANATION. Mr. BROMWELL. Mr. President: I ask unanimous consent to make a very short personalexplanatlion. I believe this is in the nature of a question of privilege, but under our rules it is not so held. Iii the issue of the Convention Register to-day, I see an error of a single word, which makes an entire change mn what I did say in the debate day before yesterday. In speakingconcerning the-Central Railroad, and the section reported requiring the fund of seven per cent. to be paid into the State treasury, and to forever remain a portion of the revenue of the State, I said: "It is true the State has the power to waive it entirely." This Convention Register puts the word "time" in place of "true," making it read: "It is time the State has the power to waive it entirely." The reason I make this explanation is not because it is a blunder merely, for I have refrained from taking up the time of the Convention in correcting any errors whatever heretofore, although they have been very numerous, but because, in effect, it makes me speak in favor of the Legislature being left free to set aside that claim of seven per cent, while no man on this floor is more opposed to releasing the Central Railroad from paying five per cent. upon its gross products, and three-fourths per cent. upon its assessed valuation, than I am. The debate in which I engaged was upon a question of allowing the counties to participate in that fund, but not by any means to release the Central Railroad from paying it; and I should regret very tmuch being understood as taking such a position as these words attribute to me. JUDICIAL DEPARTM:ERNT. Mr. SKINNER. Mr. President: I move that this Convention now resolve itself' into Committee of the Whole onl the judiciary article. The motion was agreed to. So the Convention, as in Committee of the Whole (Mr. Sedgwick in the Chair), resunded the consideration of the report of the (Committee on the J-udiciary. The question bein:g on the additional section offered by Mr. Browning, the Clerk read as follows: SALARY OF SUPREMad E COURT JUDGES. From and after the adoption of this Constitution, each judge of the supreme court shall receive a salary of five thousand dollars per annum, payable quarterly, until otherwise provided by law. Mr. BROWNING. Mr. Chairman: As we are rapidly approaching the period of adjournment, and as is it not supposed that we can enter upon much business today with the deliberatidv that ought to I I I I f 8 e t I I WEDNESDAY) CONSTITUTIONAL COXVIEXTION 1226 SIXTY-SIXTHDAY. WF,DNF,SDAY, March 16,1870. The Convention met at ten o'clock A. m, and was called to order by the President. PRA.YER. Prayer was offered by the Rev. Dr. Carnahan, of SpriDgfielcT,%s follows: liA:H1,17.t~AISADPlCEIG.1~ CODIFICATION OF LAWS. SECTION- -. The General Assembly, at its first session after the adoption of this Constitution, shall provide for the appointment of three commissioners, whose duty it shall be to revise, simplify and abridge the rules, practice, pleadings, and forms of the courts of justice; and thev shall provide for abol ishing the distinct forms of action at law now in use; and that justice shall be ministered i n a uniform mode of pleadings, without distinction between law and equity. And the General Assembly shall also make it the duty of said commissioners to reduce into a systematic code the general statute laws of the State; and said commissioners shall report the result of their labors to the General Assembly, with such recommendations and suggestions, as to abridgment and amendment, as to said commissioners may seem necessary or proper. Provisions shall be made by law for filling vacancies, regulating tile terms of office, and the compensation of said commissioners. Mr HAYES. Mr. Chairman: I wish to say that the principle involved in these sections, meets with my cordial approval. I hope the gentleman from Ver milion [Mr. TincherJ will take the time, and all the means necessary to perfect those propositions, and when they come before the Convention, I for one shall be prepared to give them my hearty support. I think they would meeet with the support o)f the majority of the people of this State. What does the gentleman propose ,shall be done with reference to the sections? ELECTION AND TERM OF JUDGES. Mr. SKINNER. Mr. Chairman: Sev eral members of the Judiciary Commit tee, including myself, have examined closely the article as it has passed, thus far, through the Committee of the Whole. We find that, in striking out a large per tioa of the fifth section and inserting the substitute of the gentleman from Sanga mon [,Mr. Hjay], which provides for the seven judicial divisions for the election of judges, there is an omission as to the term of office of judges and also the times of election. To supply that de fect, tomiake the article harmonious, and to make it correspond with the substitute adopted, I beg leave to offer the following as an independent section. The Clerk read the section offered by Mr. Skinner, as follows: The term of office of judges of the supreme court, elected after the adoption of this Constitution, shall be nine years. And on the first Monday of June, of the year in which the term of any of the judges in office at the adoption of this Constitution,or of the judges then elected shall expire, and every nine years thereafter there shall be an election for the successor or successors of such judges in the respective districts wherein the term of such judges shall expire. Mr. SKINNER. Mr. Chairman: The explanation is this. The committee re solved upon nine a ears as the term of ju,:tges of the supreme court. The article was twelve years as reported by the Judiciary Committee. The plan is the retention of the present judges, until their terms of office expire. The provisions of this additional section are necessary for the purpose of carrying out that plan. No further explanation, I presume, is necessary. The CHAIRMAN. The question is upon the adoption of the additional section. The additional section offered by Mr. Skinner was agreed to. Mr. TINCHER. Mr. Chairman: At an early day after the assembling of the Convention, I introduced a section for adoption into the Constitution, in regard to a reform in the judiciary, that was referred to the Committee on the Judiciary. It has not been reported back, and I presume will not be favorably reported back, if reported at all. I desire now to intro duce two sections. I do not desire to discuss them now, but I want to put them in such shape as, that when we go in Convention, I may there have the privilege of expressing my views upon the subxject, and insisting upon their adoption-. I desire to introduce them as blank sections, that they may follow the judiciary report into the Convention, at which time I may have an opportunityr of discussing them. The Clerk read the additional sections offered by Mr. Tincher, as follows: Mr. HAINES, of Lake. As this judi ciary article is now framed, the Legis lature would not have that power, be cause we have recognized in the article all the forms of action known at common law. Mr. HAYES. Mr. Chairman: This is a matter of vast importance which goes to the very frame-work of society, and the organization of our institutions, and is therefore proper to be considered by this committee. We have, by one statute, adopted all the common law, aDd almost all the stat utes of England, not of a local character, passed prior to the fourth year of James I. That common law and those ELiglish statutes, are part ofthe laws of this State. Since that time we have passed a num ber of acts of amendments and jeofails which have removed many of the objec tions to the English system. I have great respect for the principles of the common law. I have no desire to abrogate them; but I desire that they may be clearlv detined, that the jurisprudence of the State may be established, and our laws be put into code form, so that the pro fession at least, may have access to them. Whenever such a proposition shall be perfected by its friends, and brought up in the Convention, I shall give it my hearty support. Mr. CAITY. Mr. Chairman: I move that the committee now rise, report the article to the Convention, and ask its concurrence therein. Mr. HAINES, of Cook. Mr. Chairman: I object to asking the concurrence of the Convention in this report. I supposed the reason we were sitting here now was to get this so far perfected that it might be printed-not that the Convention might concur. I move to amend by re porting it back, with the purpose of hav ing it printed with the other reports, as provided for the other day. Mr. CARY. Iwill withdraw my motion. Mr. TINCHER,E. Mr. Chairman: I shall withdraw my amendment here, with the understanding that I have a perfect right to introduce the same in Conven tion, at a time when we shall have an op portunity for a full discussion upon the subject. I feel that there is no one question, perhaps, that will come before this Convention, in which the people, I mean the common people of the State, will be more deeply interested and I should feel that I had failed in the discharge of my duty, if I did not present, and with whatever ability I possess, seek to engraft that into the Constitution. It has beeneaid that the Legislature may make the provision. We have already, as has been remarked, engrafted into the Constitution the very formnsof practice that we now have, and without a constitutional promlsion, the Legislature, I presume, could not change it. Besides that, when we have introduced a proposition into the Legislature for any law reform, the Judiciary Committee is always co3mposed of lawyers, as it ought to be, and wve cannot get a reform through the committee. They claim it as an infringemnent on the practice, and they will not submit to it. Mr. Chairman, without malking any further remarks, I will withdraw my amendments, and will introduce them into the Convention. I now move that the committee rise, report back the ~arti Mr. TINCHER. I simply desire the sections shall follow the judiciary report in the Convention, at which time and place we can discuss them; and I hope they may be made a portion of this Constitution. Mr. HAYES. I suggest to the gentleman, that unless acted upon by the committee, they will not become a part of the report of the committee, and would drop in the Convention. Perhaps it would be better to offer them as an amendment in the Convention. The CHAIRMAN. The Chair will state for information, that it will be percfectly proper to introduce additional sections to the report in Convention, although not acted upon in the Committee of the Whole. Mr. HAYES. I will remark further, that I do not commit myself to the precise terms of the propositions contained in these sections, but the general idea of re-t duc ring thelaws, unwritten and written, and the forms of procedure to a code, is, in my judgment, suited to the condition of this State and the civilization of its people. The subject was brought up in the Convention of 1847. At that time a report was made by the Committee on Law Reform, of which I was chairman, in favor of a similar proposition. There were many attorneys in that Convention who had the prej udices of the old lawyer upon them, and it was impossible to get it through that body. Now, sir, Ihope the sections will secure a more favorable consideration in this Convention, strengthened, as they must be, by the experience of the State of New York under such a code during the last twenty years. Mr. ROSS. Mr. Chairman: I would like to ask the gentleman [Mr. Hayes] whether the Legislature has not now the power to adopt such a provision under the existing Constitution? Mr HAYES. I am inclined to think that they have the power. .MAIRC]A 169 1870. DEBATES AND PROCIREDINGS. 1227 be given to it, I have concluded, after coliterence with the chairman and some of the other members of the Judiciary Committee, if it be not objected to by the Convention, to withdraw the amendme.nt for the present, that the article may be reported back and that portion of it left blank until our assemblidg hereafter. PR.&OTICE OF THE LA.W. SECTIO.N -. tvery person of good moral character, being a voter, shall be entitled to admission to practice law in all courts ofjustice. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION Resolved, That in the death of our late as- tinctions, the noon-tide of life itself are sociate, the Stiate is called to mourn the loss no protection against the destroyer's apof one of its most useful and accomplished et a and ask their coocurrerce therein.: I sociate, the Sate is cale omoung thenls no prtcionll ntt citizens his county a most faithful and able proac. The day is cmg whe it will representative, and this bodv one of its most be said of us, as of him, that we are sick, valuable members and statesmen. that we are dead. May it be the desire Resolved, That we tender to his family and of all of us to live the life of the rightfiriends an expression of our sympathy and eoes that our last end may be peace. As condolence in the loss they have sustained. l Resolved, That a copy of these resolutions we sow now, we shall reap hereafter. Let be forwarded to the family of the deceased, us, in the discharge of all our duties, be and spread upon the records of this Conven- faithful stewards over the things that tion, and that out of respect to his memory, have been committed to our keeping, that we do now adjourn. we may render our accounts with joy, Mr. CAMERON. Mr. President: I and not with grief. would be doing injustice to my own feel- Mr. TURNER. Mr. President: I feel ings were I to refrain from giving utter- that I can hardly permit this occasion to ance to the sorrow I feel at the sad, pass without saying aword in regard to though not unexpected, announcement our friend and co laborer who has gone which has been made, that the Hon. A. fron among us. G. Kirkpatrick, of Warren county, has He came herein the early part of the departed this life. I would be doing in- session an invalid. He was permitted to justice to the memory of the dead were I select for himself a seat in this hall, and to withhold the expression of the very in the drawing it was my lot to draw a high estimation in which I have always seat beside him. held the deceased, and of the warm ad- We sat at the same desk during his miration I have felt for his character. brief stay with us, but when I turn to Mr. Kirkpatrick has long been known that seat now, Mr. President, the shadow to me as a gentleman possessed of the of death is there. He has gone out of purest personal character, and of the this hall forever. He will no more occuhighest order of talent. That he has not py a seat with us. He has gone home bebeen a public man, in the common accep- fore us. tation of the term, has been attributable We cannot, Mr. President, to-day, enter to his natural modesty of disposition. the sacred precincts ofthe mourning faim. Well fitted by the endowments of his ily of the deceased, and mingle our tears intellect, and by his sterling manhood, and our sympathies with theirs; but we and held in the highest appreciation by can testify our respect for our departed all who were acquainted with him, there friend and co-laborer. were few positions to which he might not In the presence of death it is proper have with success aspired, and there was, that we should look in upon ourselves perhaps, no position, to which he could that we should inquire whether we are have been called, that he would not have doing our work so that when the dread honorably filled. messenger comes to us we may receive cModest in his deameanor, generous in him with joy, and not with despair. all his impulses, enlightened in his judg Our deceased friend was sent here to ment, and fearless in the discharge of his assist in forming for ourselves, for our duty, he was, after all, but a man; yet State, and for our children, aConstitution take him all in all, we may not look upon designed to protect us and them, in all his like again. It would, perhaps, be as- our civil, political and religious liberties. sertig too much to say that he was a lIe was not permitted to see the complegMwiw at i an but lie was a od mn —t-hit tion of this work. Let us, then, in view no-bleost work of God an honest man. of the fact that he has been removed from ctcDurin g his brief attend-tace upon the us, pause and consider whether we are Convention in the early part of the ses- doilg the work which we are engaged in sion, I was much in his company. He as he would now do it with the light of was here contrary to the duty hlie owed eternity shininig upon him. Let us re himself, in his declining health, but i menmber that our work is not for time, obedience to the wishes of his fellow citi- alone, but that it is to continue its influ zen,, of all parties, as their representative ence through generations to come, and to in this body. Had his physical strength influence the minds and the hearts of corresponded with his mental ability and men for time and for eternity. experience, no one can doubt the fact that Let us, Mr. President, go a step furthhe would have taken a promiuent and er, in view of this mournful event. Let important part in the deliberations of this us look in upon our own hearts, and upConvention. on our own consciences, and question His death inflicts a loss upon the State, them if we are living in such manner as well as upon the district he represent- that we may at all times be prepared to ed. He was fully aware of his approach- meet the dread messenger of death. rug dissolution. He spoke of the result We expect, in a day or two, to go as inevitable, and with tne utmost forti home, aod be cheered by the smiles of tude and composure. The last words he our families. Our wives and our litle uttered to me on taking his leave, were: ones are looking with anxious eyes for MM may not see you again. I am a confirmed us- and we arc anticipating the great joy consumptive. It is only a question of of clasping them again to our bosoms. time." But, sir, there is one family connected We cannot follow him into the dark with this Convention that can look forvalley, or penetrate the secrets of the un- ward to no such earthly joy; the light seen world. of that family has gone out, never more He has sloveda for himself the great to return. problem. Whatever may have been his Let us thank God that we are permitconvictions with reference to the future, ted to still live on-to labor on, for ourthey were the convictions of an honest selves and for posterity. And let us, Mr. and sincere man. President, in all things, in our duties here, We are all admonished by this dispen- in our private relations, be admonished sation of Providence of the frailty of that it is not all of life t~ live, nor all of human life. Public duty, honors or dim- death to die. But let us so live that DEATH OF HON- A. G. KIRKPATRICK. The PRESIDENT. The Chair is in receipt of a dispatch from the Assistant Secretary of the Convention [Mr. Swain], which the Chair will communicate to the Convention, announcing the death, by consumption, at half-past eight o'clock yesterday, of Hon. A. G. Kirkpatrick, a member of this body. The Secretary read the dispatch, as follows: MONMOerUT, Illinois, March 15, 1870. HoN0. CHARLES HITCHCOCK, .President Constitutional Convention, Springfield, Illinois: Hon. A. G. Kirkpatrick died of consumption this morning, at half-past eight o'clock. A. H. SWAIN. Mr. CRAIG Mr. President: I wish to offer the following resolutions: The Secretary read the resolutions offered by Mr. Craig, as follows: WHEREAS, The sad intelligence has reached ns of the death of the Hon. LAG. Kirkpatrick, of Warren county, a member-of this Convention; W.EDNE SI)AY, 1228 cle on the judiciary with amendments, and ask their corcurrerce thereiii. Mr. TURNER. 31r. Chp.,i-rinan: I would say in explarj,,ttio,-,i, the usual motion is, that the arti-cle with the ai-uendnier,ts be reported be.,-,k with the reconimeildation that they be concurred in by the Coi-iveL)tion. That does not implv P. cor,currerce by arjy n-icads, it is only a form we have to go through in order to concur or not to codcur' Mr. ROSS. Nlr. Chairman: I had understood the motion to be that the committee rise and ask leave to print. I DOW understand that we are to pass the amendmel.ts proforma; and I shall be com' pelled to oppose that proposition. The Judiciary Committee -wants us to concur in sections, without debate. The CHATR24AN. The concurrence is only in the amendments, as reported back to the Convei,.tion. It will not preveiit gentlemen from suggesting further amendments iii Convention. Mr. ROSS. Such sections we have adopted pro forma, for the purpose of having the report of the Judiciary Committee printed, a,id laid before the PeODle during the recess. Air. HAYES. What sections do you al'iude to? Air. ROSS. Those relating to Cook county. Mr. HAYES. Those sections, I suppose we n-iiaht include in the report. Four of tl-ie sections were agreed to be repo-rted without any recommendation; the remainder have certainly been amended and adopted, and we have the action of this committee in favor of those sections and amendments. The four last sections in the Cook county article were to be reported without any recommeu.dation. All the rest of the article, with the amel-dments, should be reported with the recommendation that they be adopted by the Convertion. iV-r. TINCHER. I will withdraw the mot;-on so far is it corcerns asking concurrence. The CHAIRMAN. The question is: Shall the committee now rise, and report back the article on the judiciary, as anier,ded, in order that it may be printed, as amel-ldcd in Committee of the Whole? ,. n as a reed to. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. A few more morns! Again, again in beauty The earth will wear the splendor of her sp-riings; While we within the universe of spirits Will wander somewhere among viewless things, Where'er it be, in all the heaven of air, We still must see our human home is fair Wondrous must be God's gift to compensate For all we miss within our human fate. one of our number had gone from amoni us; and to-day we are again startled by the announcement that another, loved honored and respected as much as any has been summoned to "that bourne from whence no traveler returns." The irrevocable decree has gone forth, the last solemn words have been spoken "Earth to earth, ashes to ashes;" and al that could die of the man awaits the tomb that to-morrow must swallow him up forever. Man has accomplished wonders. His sails whiten every sea, and are wafted by every breeze under the whole heaven His iron bands span continents. He has made the lightning his messenger. Astronomers have constructed an eye-an eye, tearless, lidless, sleepless-so like the eye of God, and with it have reached into space, gathered up the faint rays of light, feeble with their journey from the distant star, woven them into one strong band, and measured the distance before immeasurable; but man has never me asured the distance between this day and the next. With all his cunning, he may never lift the veil that hangs between today and to-morrow. But while we pause over the graves of our friends, let us remember that to him who does justly, who loves mercy and walks manly with God, the summons of death is but a summons to eternal life, and that then indeed, the clouds before so black become gorgeous with a lining of silver and a fringe of pure gold. Let us therefore heed the lesson and so regulate our lives that when the summons comes to us, it may be a joyful summons, of "well done, good and faithful servant, thou hast been faithful in a few things, I will make thee ruler over many." Mr. PERLEY. Mr. President: A few days since I cut from a paper, my friend from Kendall [Mr. Sherrill] had here, some lines by Mary Clemmer Ames, which express so much better than I can, what I feel at this moment, and would fain say, that I will read them: e Mr. BROMWELL. Mr. President: I twould not trespass upon the patience of this Convention, if it were not that we 3all know that th is day is set apart to the h memory of our departe d frie nd a nd fellow member. There are solemn reflecs tiS connected with this occasi on. But a few months ago, the people of Illinois chose from among the irnumbera few to represent them, and t he y were to assemble here. They did assemble, in Wpart, but I believe it is true tha t all this Convention never sat down toge ther at once. Before we had been long in our deliberations, we separated to our homes, and from that separa tion w e were never Iall gathered together. One had gone i n the interval. He passed before his fellow . members had time to become acquainted with him. He was taken from us,and to-day these wintry winds are drifting the snows , around the frozen clods upon his little L mound. Now, another; and so we go. [ Perhaps before we shall have concludLed our labors, others will have lain down with these in some of the little burying - grounds Ecattered throughout the State. Whether that be so or not, one thing is certain, that we are but a very small number of that host that walks under sentence of death from which there is no reprieve, onward to the veil that opens on the undiscovered country and the hidden life. Therefore, it is well, as we sit here to-day, to bestow some little thought and reflection upon the subject of the final end of all human ambition and greatness,what ever it may be, thus brought so painfully before us in the image of our brother ly ing stark and cold upon the bier of death. 6 How long it may be before the last one of this assembly shall follow, we can not tell. But this we do know that it is. well for those who sit here to-day (and for all those of our members who may sit with us hereafter) to have impressed upon our hearts the great value of frater nity and concord, respect for the human feelings, human sympathy for each other, and veneration for the Great Disposer of events, upon whose foot-stool we are the merest insects of the moment. It has been, in my opinion, a fault of the American people that, with all their greatness, with all their philosophy, with all their religion, observances and pretensions, if you please, there has always been wanting inl our public assembllies, and in our national life, a sufficient regard to "i med w~hosits upon! the circle o~f the earetoh ar as gashppes.. We pay so much deference to the opinions of men which are known to conflict and clash, that we are driven from paying sufficiennt deference to Almighty God. These events, happening as they do in every assembly of the land, from time to time, are calculated to bring before our minds, and should impress upon us withterribie power the thought of the Supremne Providence, Supreme Wisdom, and Supreme Justice, which preside over our beginning and our end. If events~,such A few more mornings, yet a few m or more morn ings, We'll watch the light's low dawning, dull and gray; A few more mornings, and we'll faintly mur mur To those who love us, "'tis our latest day." From weary brows will fall the life-worn mask, From tired hands will drop the half-done task. when our w ork on earth is done, and ou summo ns comes to pass through th. portals of death, we may meet that sum mons with joy, and enter into eternal rest. Mr. UNDERWOOD. Mr. President I had not the pleasur e of a personal ac quaintance wit th th e deceased. Yet, ] recollect very well where he sat; I recol. lect very distin ctly his pale, intellectual countenance, marked with that fell de stroyer, consumption; and I also well r ecollec t that on the day when we t ook o ur re cess, s ome member remarked, "That m an will never app ear he r e again." It has proved prophetic. Since that time Patterson, who sat here, has gone to his long home, Billings a friend and associate of mine for the last twenty-five years-a man of intellect-has been bereft of rea son, while others have been stricken down by disease, and are not able to ap pear among us. Amidst the general glo3m, I cannot avoid uttering a few words on this occa sion. What, to these three men, are all the busy scenes and topics which engross our attention, sometimes annoy and at other times exasperate? What are all our hopes, our fears, our objects of ambi tion to them? As we look forward a lit tle further, a few brief years, all who are now here will be among the past. The impress we leave upon our race and upon our institutions lives after us for good or for evil. A thoughtful mind cannot but be deeply sensible of the truth that we are passing away in solemn procession to the tomb. "And our hearts though stout and brave, Still like muffled drums are beating Funerallmarches to the grave." How idle, then, are many of these things that rouse and enlist our atten tion, stir up our animosities, and perturb our present state of existence! We live not for ourselves, but for our race, for humanity, for the world. The solemn procession of mankind that marches from time to eternity bears us along in the current, and we will soon disappear forever. As one by one our companions pass from our midst, the most, perhaps, that we can do is to drop a tear to their memory, and scatter flowers over what has passed to nothingness. The lesson that this sad event teaches us is that we should so live that when we come to pass from these busy scenes, vwe may go to our last resting-place with peaceful and serene minds, "Like one who wraps the drapery of his couch about him And lies down to pleasant dreams. Sir. WELLS. Mr. President: I had thought to-day to recognize the fact that when the Great Ruler of the Universe hath spoken, all the earth should be silent. Lessons of mortalityr are always sad. The knelt which tells us of the death of a stranger, or the ominous messenger that announces the death of a friend, awakens emotions in us that cannot be described? but which we yet know so well by experience. The lesson is the more impressive as it comes nearer to us; and the mystery that multiplies its terrors is not diminished —nay, is rather increased —by the fr~equency of its occurf ence. It is but yesterday that the business of this assembly was suspended, all debate hushed, and every ear turned to hear Mt~at 80 A few more mornings, but a few more morn ings, Others will take the work that we laid down Will lift it where we left it in the shado w, Will bear its cross, perchance will wear the crown We sighed for, toiled for, all our fleeting hoursThe crown of crowns, that never could be. ours. A few more mornings! Still will be forever The heart that thrills to-day with love's dear pain, Its sufferings done. All done the long en deavor, The far out yearning of the lofty brain. There'll be in the low house where we lie down, No love, no hate, no dream of high renown. A iew more morns!'Twill all be told, our story, So sweet, so brief. Why war with changeless fate? Why cry for love? Why spend our strength for glory? Why pray to God with prayer importunate? His centuries go, we still must come and pass But as the shadows on the summer grass. MARCH 16) 1870. 1229 i~~~o OONSTITUTIONAL OO~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~E~~~TiON WEDN~~~~~~~~~~~DAY,~,' make a man be a man; that it may cause in us a reverent regard, reliance and trust. in those d i vine things which may become in the revolving cycles of eternity the unspeakable reward, the glory, and the crown of life, transcendently above all that earth can offer, in all the multifarious affairs and conditions of human life. Mr. SKINNER. Mr. Pre sident: Words are unnecessary. I accord with the expressions of the members who have addressed the Convention upon this occasion. I knew the deceased more intimately than many members of this Convention, and for a longer time. I knew him always, on every occasion, and in every place, to be a sincere, true man. His convictions were based upon the purest sincerity; his opinions, deliberately formed, were positive. As a lawyer, he was laborious; true to his clients, to his public duties. Earnest in the discharge of those duties, and competent to fulfill them,equal to the duties and emergencies of his profession, he was universally respected, and generally beloved. The PRESIDENT. The resolutions will be declared adopted by general consent, and spread upon the journals. ORDER OF BUSINESS. Mr. BROWNING. Mr. President: I would suggest whether it would not be better to let them be passed a moment, as they call upon us to adjourn over until to-morrow, and to-morrow is the last day of our stay before the recess. Mr. CRAIG. Mr. President: I would suggest that the resolutions only call upon us to adjourn until two o'clock this afternoon. with some of the employees of this Convention, with instructions to report what em. ployees can be discharged, would respectfully re por t: Thatifit w as a n ew ques tion th ey woul d say, this Convention could get along with the following number of officers, not including the secretaries and their assistants: Two doorkee pers, two policemen, two firemen, one postmaster, one mail carrier and four pages; b ut the Conventi on, in its judgment, at the commencement of its deliberations, saw fit to employ a larger force, all of whom have discharged their duties faithfully and fairly, and to discharge two or three of them and retain the remainder might, and, in the opinion of your committee, would, injuriously affect their standing at home. Your committee would further report, that they have again tried to find some officers whose names they would strike off and discharge, and after going over the list again, could not find a man that, in justice to themselves, or to the Convention, they could recommend to be discharged, nor does this com. mittee believe that this Convention would concur in any such recommendation if it was made. All that your committee could agree to do in answer to said recommittal and instruction as to the paid officers, whose pay is not fixed by law, was to recommend to the Convention that they be paid three dollars per day each for their services, after the recess, and they only do this because they have been allowed the sum of five hundred and forty-six dollars each for services already rendered. Your committee would further report, that, in respect to the pages, they believe all the services required of them after the recess, can be performed by four instead of eight, as now, and that they recommend the retention of the following boys as pages: Finch, Harlow, McWilliams and Barry, and that all others be discharged. Your committee, in making this selection, have been governed solely by the fact, as they are informed, that the pages retained are the sons of widows in indigent circumstances, and not by any superior alacrity or kindness of the boys, all of whom your committee take pleasure in reporting as having faithfully performed all their duties. But upon the above questions, this committee make no suggestions or requests, only to be discharged from the further consideration of the same. That your committee would recommend that John Jackson, who draws full pay as regular janitor of the basement, be allowed one dollar per day in addition to his regular pay for each day's services during the session. Your committee would further report, that they recommend that Thomas C. Jewell be allowed the sum of six dollars for services as clerk of the special commmittee on supreme court divisions. In the last two recommendations this committee ask the concurrence of this Convention. They also instructed me to offer the following resolutions: Resolved, That the Secretary of State and Auditor of Pulblic Accounts be requested to present to this Convention all accounts or bills which they have, or of which they have any knowledge, at once, so that the same can be examined and allowed by the Convention. .Resolved, Thlat all extra clerks, and all janitors, including the janitor of the Senate chamber, employed in the State House, for or on account of this Convention, be, and the same are hereby, discharged from further attendance upon this Convention. Mr. TURNER. Mr. President. I move to lay the whole subject upon the table until we reassemble. Mr. MOORE. Mr. President: I would suggest to the gentlemanl from Stephenson [Mr. Turner] that these resolutions or one of them at any rate, I think should be passed immediately. There is nothing wrong in either. The report we care nothing about. Mr. PARKS (in his seat). Read the~resolultions. The Secretary read the resolutions, reported by the Committee on Accounts and Expenditures, as folkows:. as have happened among us, shall have t he effect of arousing the hearts of th e member s of the Convention to a deeper sense of re sp onsibility to God, and to their fellows, to take a broader, and fuller, and more sympathetic view of hum an ity, to labor m ore disinterestedly for the elevation of our race, for the happiness of mankind, and in imitation of Him whose Providence rules over all, and to dispose with like order, regularity and beneficence, the things which w e are called upon to administer, then we shall have derived from that which is an affliction to us, and to our people, the benefits which from such afflictions ought to flow. We will be separated to-morrow, as we separated once before. When we parted then, we came not all back; neither can we come. There are two or three of our number, whose chairs have been vacant for the last two months, and we may reasonably expect when we assemble here again, the announcement will await us that one or more of those with whom we were associated, have been called to the same dread realities to which our two brothers have passed before us; so that we are assembled to-day with no assurance that the hands which have aided to draw out and prepare the work which we expect to finish, will be enabled to set their signatures to that work, even of those now present in this hall. We are passing. Age makes its mark upon those whom accident and disease otherwise would spare; and so from one cause or from another, day by day, we are borne on to the silent tomb. We legislate, people assemble, congresses meet, administrations go on, empires are built up in the earth, we spread the march of our improvements over desert continents, and through untrod forests; human life goes on, and progress marches, while man, the individual, lies down, and wakes not up until the nations be no more. Spring returns, the violets bloom upon the sod, the storms rise, the north winds wake the awful harp-strings of the thunders round his tomb, but he lies in silence communing with the dust and worms. Man, were it not that an immortal spirit dwells within his wasting body, would be no more than clay-a mere clod, inanimate, upon the surface of the earth. I hope therefore, Mr. President, since there is nothing in the body, nor in the present life, which should make a man proud or ambitious, nothing in all that may be uttered by the trump of fame that is worthy the attention of a human soul, nothing in that bubble which floats &long the stream of time, with which posterity will sport, worthy the attention of a man, since those who sat in the highest councils of the nation, but twenty years ago, are now forgotten, since men, who have passed their lives in the highest tribunals of justice for many years, have lain down, and they and their works hiave perished together from the memories of men, sines there is nothing ion the whole turmoil and strife, either of politics or statesmanship, which can attract a man's ambition with any promise that he shall reap, even the barren reward [~of fame, that this dispensation of the Ruler of the universe may have the effect upon us, unworthy subjects of his bounty and patience, to warn us to ascribe more importance and inspire us with more enthusiasm or~ those most sublime and substantial things, which ADJOURNMENT. The PRESIDENT. The resolutions will be declared adopted and spread upon the journals. By virtue ofthem the Convention stands adjourned. So the Convention (at eleven o'clock and fourteen minutes) adjourned. WEDNESDAY, March 16, 1870. The Convention met at two o'clock r. M., and was called to order by the President. EXECUTIVE DEPARTMENT-CORRECTION. Mr. ANTHONY. Mr. President: I desire, by the consent of the Convention, to make a correction in the report of the Executive Committee-a very slight correction. In the seventh line of the report of the committee, all the officers, including the Lieutenant Governor, are required to reside at the seat of government. We desire an exception made in regard to the Lieutenant Governor. The sentence should read: "They shall, with the excception of the Lieutenant Governor." I move that the report be corrected by the insertion of the words "with the ex-, ception of the Lieutenant Governor," after the word "shall," in the seventh linethat it may be printed in that way. The motion was agreed to. UNNECESSARY EMPLOYEES. Mr. MOORE. Mr. President: With the consent of the Convention, I desire to submit the following report:. The Committee on Accounts and Expenditures of the Convention, to whom was referred the resolution in regard to dispensing CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION WF.DNSGDAY, 1230 AFTER-NOON SESSION. MH. i. - - - I IBATE- - 1ND I R... EIS -1 POSTAGE TO CONVENTION. Mr. PARKS. Mr. President: I have a resolution about a subject matter upon which I have consulted the chairman of th e Committee on Accourts and Expendi tures of the Convention. It is a very small bill against the Convention by the postmaster of the city. The account is as follows: The Constitutional Convention, To Postoffice, Springfield, Ill., Dr. To postage on newspapers for quar ter ending March 31st, 1870, as fol lows: To 64 dailies, at 30 cents...............$19 20 To 55 weeklies, at 5 cents............. 2 75 Total..............................$21 95 Upon the account, I have written the following resolution: Mr RS Resolved, That the foregoing account be al lowed, and that the Auditor be authorized to issue a warrant for $21 95, in favor of J. L. Crane, postmaster of Springfield, Illinois. I wish to say about that account, that it was made by Mr. Moody, who has been deputy postmaster here, from time to time, for the last twenty-five years, and who, I expect, never made an account in his life that was not right. It is for pos tage for these dailies that are sent here for members of the Convention. I presented the account to the chairman of the Committee on Accounts and Ex penditures [Mr. Moore], who saw no ob jection to it, said it was too small a mat ter to be postponed, and that it had bet ter be brought before the Convention and disposed of at once. I have no doubt it is all right, and I hope the resolution will be adopted. Mr. ANTHONY. I presume that re fers to papers that have been received by the members here. Mr. PARKS. I understand so. Mr. ANTHONY. There is something peculiar about papers that are sent to our constituents from this city. On my re turn home, a short time since, I found that on all the papers sent from the office here the postmaster had been charging my constituents postage, the same as in the" case of transient paperf. I understand tha t the ground taken was. that the Convention Journal was a mere temporary affair, and therefore pos tage was charged for them accordingly. I merely call attention to the matter, to see if this thing has been done all over the State. I would be glad to have the matter inquired into, and corrected, if there is any mistake about it. Mr. ROSS. Mr. President: I move the reference of this resolution to the Committee on Accounts and Expenditures. Mr. McDOWELL. Mr. President: Will a motion to lay on the table be in order? The PRESIDENT. A motion to lay on the table takes precedence.o Mr. PARKS. If there is any doubt about it, Mr. President, I do not wish to press it. to ~Mr MOORE. There is no doubt about Tit, Mr. President; it is for the papers that come to us. Mr. McDOWELL. Mr. President: It is for postage, which it belongs to each individual member to pay. It is not right that we should pass a resolution by which the State shall be obliged to pay our individual debts. If the sepaYrate accounts were presented to each member, I suppose each would pay his w own. BResolved, That the Secretary of State and Auditor of Public Accounts be requested to present to this Convention all accounts or bills which they have, or of which they have ary knowledge. at once,so tlhat the same can be examined and allowed by this Convention. Resolved, That all extra clerks and all jani tors, including the janitors of the Senate Chamber employed in the State House for or on account of this Convention, be and the same are hereby discharged from furthe r at. tendance upon this Convention. Mr. TURNER. Mr. President: As the resolutions do not affect the regular officers and employees of the Convention at all, I will withdraw my motion, so that the resolutions may be acted upon. The resolutions were agreed to. Mr. TURNER. Mr. President: I move that the report of the Committee on Accounts and Expenditures be laid upon the table, to be considered when we return. Mr. PARKS. Mr. President: If I understand the gentleman, the ground upon which he makes that motion is that we have no quorum present, and that, therefore, we cannot properly act upon this report. If that is so, I wish it distinctly understood, because I know of no other reason that would justify us, after the committee have made this report, showing that we are paying out more of the people's money than is necessary, in delaying action upon it. It is our duty to act upon it immediately, if we are in a situation to do so. If we have not a quorum, I suppose, of course, we can not properly do it. But, if we refuse to act upon such a report as that, the people have a right to know the reason. The motion of Mr. Turner, to lay the report on the table, was agreed to. POSTAGE TO SECRETARY OF CONVENTION. Mr. WENDLING. Mr. President: I offer the following resolution: -Resolved, That the Secretary of State furnish the Secretary of this Convention a sufficient number of postage stamps to enable him to discharge the duties imposed upon him by this Convention. Mr. TURNER. Mr. President: I hope there will be no action taken upon that resolution until action is taken upon another. If the other resolution is adopted, it will then require more than fifteen dollars worth of stamps. Mr. WENDLING. I withdraw it, then, for the present. I move to lay the resolution on the table. Mr. PARKS. Mr. President: I hope the gentleman will not do that; let it be referred to the proper committee. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the motion of the gentleman from Fulton [Mr. Ross] to commit the resolu tion to the Committee on Accounts and Expenditures of this Convention. The motion was not agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the adoption of the resolution. A division was ordered. The committee divided, when, the Chair announced that there were twenty five in the affirmative, and ten in the neg ative. Mr. ROSS. Is there a quorum present, Mr. President? The PRESIDENT. There is no quo rum voting; but the Chair is of the impression that there is a quorum pres ent. POSTAGE TO SECRETARY OF CONVENTION. Mr. WENDLING. Mr. President: If resolutions are in order, I desire to offer one, and upon it I move the previous question. The resolution is as follows: Resolved, That the Secretary of State furnish the Secretary of the Convention a sufficient number of postage stamps, to enable him to discharge the duties imposed upon him by this Convention. Mr. PARKS. Mr. President: I would like to know if there is any limit to that? Mr. WENDLING. The resolution expressly states that the amount shall be sufficient to enable him to discharge the duties devolved upon him by this Convention. We have instructed him to mail to us in different parts of the State, for various purposes, a quantity of mail matter. That will require a considerable amount of postage stamps, and we cannot tell the exact amount that will be necessary. Mr. PARKS. I would rather that a resolution of that sort should have some limit. Mr. WENDLING. Mr. President: Will the gentleman suggest twenty dollars, then? Mr. PARKS. Very well. I move to amend the resolution by adding the words "not exceeding twenty dollars." Mr. HAINES, of Cook. My colleague [Mr. Meaill] has been endeavoring to get the floor, to explain that he has a resolution, which he thinks will adjust all this matter to the satisfaction of the Convention." Mr. MEDILL. Mr. President: I propose to offer the following resolutions: .Resolved, That the Secretary be required to have three thousand copies of the report of the Committee of the Whole, and articles adopted by the Convention, printed in lieu of one thousand, as ordered under the resolution introduced-by Mr. Archer, and that he mail to each member his due proportion of the same. .Resolved, That the Secretary of State furnish to the Secretary such an amount of postage stamps as may be actually necessary to mail said documents. Mr. WENDLING#. Mr. President: I withdraw my resolution. Mr. MEDILL. Mr. President: I wish to explain. The original order for one thousand copies will only give each member about a dozen. A dozen will not answer my constituents. I want a great; many more than twelve copies, to show to the peop)le of my district what we have been doing this winter, and every m~~ ELECTION; TO FITLL VACANqCY OF HaON. A. G. KIRKPATRICK. Mr. CRAIG. Mr. President: In order that Warren county may be represented in the Convention during the remainder of the session, I offer the following resolutions. The Secretary read the-resolutions offered by tlr. Cr aig, as f ollows: Resolved, That the legal voters of the thirtythird district, consisting of the county of Warren, be invited to hold an election on Tuesday, the fifth day of April, to elect one member to this Constitutional Convention in place of Hon. A. G. Kirkpatrick, deceased, and that the registration lists for the elect-on in November, 1869, be adopted for such election. Resolved, That the President of this Convention cause a copy of these resolutions to be transmitted to the county clerk of said Warren county, and that the clerk of said county cause a notice of said election, with a copy of these resolutions, to be published in said county at once. Mr. AIEDILL. I wish to inquire if that is the day of the spring election? Mr. CRAIG. Yes, sir. The resolution offered by Mr. Craig was agreed to..~ DEBATES A.ND PROCEEDINGS,. MooaOH 16, 1870. 1231 1232 ('OSTITUTIOAL CONYETION TUESDA; POSTPONEMENT OF SPECIAL ORDER. Mr. PEIRCE. Mr. President: I move that the special order for to-day be postponed until the 13th of April. The special order is the section introduced by myself in reference to local municipal authorities subscribing to stock corporations. It was ordered to be printed, laid on the table, and made the special order for to- day at half-past ten. Mr. McDOWELL. Mr. President: Was there not some other special order for that day? Mr. PEIRCE. I am not aware that there is. Mr. CHURCH. Mr. President: I move the previous question on the motion of the gentleman from Grundy [Hr. Peirce]. [Laughter.] The question being upon the motion of Mr. Peirce, that the special order be postponed until the 13th of April, it was agreed to. The PRESIDENT. There is not a quorum present. ADJOURNMZENT. Mr. ROSS. I move that the Convention adjourn until two o'clock this afternoon. The motion was agreed to. So the Convention (at ten o'clock and twenty-two minutes) adjourned. .ber ough t to have at least thirty or forty copies ofor the work of this Convention, to exhibit to the leading men of his district, and to furnish togthe press. I therefore hope that this resolution will be adopted. Mr. UNDERWOOD. The resolution says nothing about postage required to send off our mail. Mr. CARY. It is not necessary. Mr. HAINES, of Cook. Mr. President: I move to strike out the word "actual" in the resolution. The motion was not agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is on the adoption of the resolution. The resolution offered by Mr. Medill, was agreed to. ADJOURNIENT. Mr. CARY. I move that the Convention do now adjourn. A division was ordered. The committee divided; when, there being twenty-one in the affirmative and four in the negative, the motion war agreed to. So the Convention (at two o'clock end thirty-four minutes) adjourned. ADJOURNMENT. Mr. SHERRILL. Mr. President: I move that the Convention do now adjourn until the 12th of April. The motion was agreed to. So the Convention (at ten o'clock and five minutes) adjourned. AFTERNO ON SESSION. TUESDAY, April 12, 1870. The Convention met at two o'clock, P. M., and w as c alled to order by the President. NEW MEMBER FROM THE THIRTEENTE DISTRICT. Mr. WALL. Mr. President: I desire tooffer the credentials of Hon. Ferris Forman, member elect from the district composed of the counties of Fayette and Effingham. The Secretary read the credentials of Mr. Forman, as follows: STATE OF ILLINOIS, FAYETTE CO. OFFICE OF CLERK OF COUNTY COURT, VANDALIA, March 26, 1870. STATE OF ILLINOIS, f Fayette County, 9 We, Henry P. Collins and J. W. Filler, clerks of the county courts of Fayette and Effingham counties, and State aforesaid, do hereby certify that at an election held on the nineteenth day of March, A. D. 1870, in the counties of Fayette and Effingham, which counties compose the thirteenth representative district, do hereby certify that Ferris Forman was duly elected a member to fill the vacancy in the Convention to revise, alter or amend the Constitution of the State of Illinois. In testimony whereof, we have hereunto set our hands and affixed the county seal of Fayette county, this twenty-sixth day of March, A. D. 1870. SIXTY-SEVENTH DAY. THURSDAY, March 17, 1870. The Convention met at ten o'clock, A. M., and was called to order by the President pro tempore (Mr. Hay). P rayer was offered by the Rev. Mr. H ale, of Springfield, a s follows: PRAYER. Father in h eaven! Thou hast taught us to acknowledge Thee in all our ways. We thank Thee that we have it as our privilege in life, to come to the Father of mercies and realize that not one of His creatures is ever forgotten before Him. Father in hea ven! Thou hast cared for us during the night, brought us to behold the light of this morning, and assembled us here in this hall. We pray for the members of this body, present or absent; and as they now disperse to visit their homes, may God abide with them during their recess. Be a God to them and their families. Recover them we pray Thee and restore them again to their places in this hall when the time shall arrive; and here may they complete the work for which in Thy providence they have been so long together. May the God of grace give them to feel deeply their dependence upon Him. O, Lord God! Thou hast invaded their numbers and taken some of those from them who came together with them at the firstteaching that solemn lesson that day unto day we are marching towards the boundaries of life; that He who first breathed into us the breath of life will issue His call at the time for us to stand before Him and meet God. So wilt Thou impress us with a sense of our responsibility and accountability to Thee that life shall move onward under the influence of those principles which nature and revelation are constantly impressing upon us. Be thou our strength while we live, Thou the light and guide of our life; and, when we have finished, gather us, Lord, in Thy kingdom-the home that abideth forever. H1ear us, Lord, for Jesus' sake; and to Thy name, Father, Son and Holy Spirit, be everlasting praise. Amen. TUESDAY, April 12, 1870. The Convention met at ten o'clock A. H., and was called to order by the President. PRAYER. Prayer was offered by the Rev. Mr. Carnahan, of Springfield, as follows: Almighty God, Thou art the Creator and sovereign ruler of the universe. We are the creatures of Thy hand, guided and preserved by Thee. And now, at the opening of this session, we adore Thee for Thy goodness in preserving us during this recess, and in bringing together the members of this Convention to enter anew upon their labors. We thank Thee for Thy favors to them, in their homes, and in all their associations. We thank Thee for the health with which they meet, and we now pray Thy blessing upon them in their work. Preserve their lives, and their health, and their minds, and their hearts; keep them in the hollow of Thy hand; teach them in all their duties and their ways; bless them personally, and bless their families in their absence; bless their work, the State for which they work, and the age in which they live; and may the presence and the blessings of Almighty God abide upon them. And, now, grant, we humbly beseech Thee, to bear us as we pray: Our Father who art in Heaven, hallowed be Thy name. Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done on earth as it is in Heaven. Give us this day our daily bread: and forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors. Lead us not into temptation, but deliver us firom evil; for Thine is the Kingdom, and the power, and the glory forever. Amen. READING OF THIE JOURNAL. The Secretary read the journal of the last day's proceedings. CALL OF TIIE HOUSE. RDr. ROSS. Mr. President: I move that the roll of members be called, with a view to ascertain whether there be a quorum present. The motion was agreed to. The Secretary called the roll, and the following members answered to their names: H. P. COLLINS, County Clerk Fayette Co., [Seal.] J. W. FILLER, County Clerk Effingham Co. Mr. WALL. Mr. President: I move that Mr. Forman be now sworn in. The motion was agreed to. Mr. FORMAN advanced to the bar of the Convention, and the Secretary administered the following oath of office: You do solemnly swear that you will support the Constitution of the United States, and of this State, so far as its provisions are compatible with and applicable to your position and duties as a member of this Convention, and that you will faithfully discharge your duties as a member of said Convention. So help you God. MORNING SESSION. Mr. CHURCH. Mr. President: As there seems to be nothing before the Convention, I will offer the following resolution, and ask its adoption. The Secretary read the resolution offered by Mr. Church, as follows: Resolved,',That hereafter the morning session of this Convention shall open at nine o'clock A. M. Mr. CHURCH. I offer that, in order that the business of the Convention may be facilitated. The days have become so much longer, that I think we can easily meet at nine; and perhaps, after a few days, earlier than that. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION TUESDAY, -1232 Bay!ae,. Benjamin, I Bromwell, .Cameron. Cary, Church, Cros - 's Eldrege, Gamble, Hankins, Hay, Hidiup, King, McGoy, Moor6'Parks' Perley, Peirce, Poage, Ross, Sedgwick, Sharp Suth7e'rland, Tincher, Wagner, Wall, Whitiiig-27. - I e SIXTY-EIGILTH DAY. READING OF THE JOTJRNAL. The Secretary proceeded to read the journal of the last day's proceedings when Ir. BRO3,IWELL. Mr. President: I move the further reading of the journal be dispensed with. The motion was agreed to. APRIL 12, 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS 1233 Mr. KING. Mr. President: I move an lating the hour of adjournment, as sug- in covenant love, rest on us indivldually, on lating the hour of adjournment, as suggested. Mr. KING. I rise to a point of order, from the decision of the Chair. I insist on my motion to adjourn until to-morrow morning at ten o'clock. The PRESIDENT. The gentleman from McHenry [Mr. Church] was enti led to the floor when the motion to adjourn was made, he having risen to address the Chair before that motion was made. A iMr. KING. I renew the motion. The PRESIDENT. The gentleman from Fulton [Mr. Ross] has obtained the floor. in covenant love, rest on us individually, on our families at home, on our State, on our nation, on our lost world, redeemed by the love of God in Jesus. We pray that Thou wilt give grace and wisdom to the Governor of this State, the President of this nation, all who are in authority; and may the results of deliberation in this Convention be approved, accepted, and made a blessing to us, our children, and to the lat est posterity. We ask, hope, and trust, through Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior. Amen. NEW MIEMBER FROM THIRTY-THIRD DIS TRICT. Mr. POAGE. Mr. President: Dr. Tubbs, the delegate elect from Warren county, is present; but his credentials are not here, from the fact that one of the supervisors of that county failed to make the return of his township. There was no contest in the county, Dr. Tubbs being the only candidate; and there is no questioln in regard to his election. I gather these facts from Mr. Swain, one of our secretaries, from that county, as well as Dr. Tubbs himself. I move, under these circumstances, that he now be sworn in as a member of this Convention. The PRESIDENT. There being no objection made, the gentleman will step forward and take the oath of office. Mr. TUBBS advanced to the bar of the Convention, and the Secretary administered the following oath of office: You do solemnly swear that you will support the Constitution of the United States, and of this State, so far as its provisions are compatible with and applicable to your positioin and duties as a member of the Convention, and that you will faithfully discharge your duties as a member of said Convention. So help you God. Mr. KING. Mr. President: I move an an ame ndmen t to the resolution, by insert ing a provision that we adjourn at five o'clock P. M. I am perfectly willing, so far as I am concerned, to meet at nine o'clock, if we can have the evening recess at five o'clock. I think the time indicated is, perhaps, about as long as we can stay here daily, with justice to ourselves. We should have a little recreation in the evening. I am willing to support the resolution, if the gentleman will accept my amendment. Mr. CHURCH. Mr. President: I would be glad to accept the amendment; but I think that, having fixed the hour for meeting in the morning, we can regulate the hour for adjournment in the evenings according to the feelings and temper of the Convention —a motion for adjournment being always in order. For myself, I confess that I would prefer working later unless the Convention should find it necessary to adjourn as early as five o'clock. My desire is that we may meet as early as nine o'clock, and adjourn according to the temper of the Convention. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the amendment of the gentleman from Jersey [Mr. King]. A division was ordered. The Convention divided, when, there being three in the affirmative and twelve in the negative, the motion was not agreed teo. The question being on the resolution offered by Mr. Church, a division was ordered. The Convention divided, when, there being twenty-two in the affirmative and three in the negative, the resolution was agreed to. RULE TO FACILITATE BUSINESS. Mr. ROSS. I move the adoption of this resolution. We all feel a necessity of something of the kind. I believe where there isnot a division of the Convention called, and we do not declare the fact that there is no quorum present, business is legitimate. The Secretary read the resolution offered by Mr. Ross, as follows: -Resolved, That the Committee on Rules be instructed to inquire what additional rules or regulations, if any, are necessary to facilitate the prompt and speedy transaction of business in the Convention and Committee of the Wh-Ale, and that they report to the Convention at an early day. The re solution was agreed to. ADJOURN-M,ENT SINE DIE. Mr. WALL. I desire to offer a resolution which I shall not press to a vote at this time; but I now ask that it lie over until a quorum shall be pr sent. The Secretary read the resolution offered by Mr. Wall, as follows: Resolved, That this Convention will adjourn sine die on Saturday the 30th instant, at 12 M. The PRESIDENT. The resolution will lie on the table for future consideration. MORNING SESSION. The PRESIDENT. The next business in order is the unfinished business of yesterday — the resolution of the gentleman from McHenry [Mr. Church]. The Secretary will read the resolution. The Secretary read the resolution offered by Mr. Church, as follows: Resolved That hereafter the morning session of tie Convention shall open at nine o'clock A. M. A division was ordered. The Convention divided, when, there being twenty-two in the affirmative and fourteen in the negative, the resolution was agreed to. REPORTS OF SELECT COiAf]lITTEES. The PRESIDENT. Reports from select committees are in order. CALL OF THE CONrq ENTION. Mlr. SHARP. Mr. President: I would ask if there is a quorum present? The PRESIDENT. The only way to ascertain is by a call of the Convention. The Secretary will call the roll. The Secretary called the roll, when the following members answered to their ADJOURNMENT. Mr. KING. I now move that the Convention do now adjourn until nine o'clock to-morrow morning. The motion was agreed to. So the Convention (at two o'clock and thirty-five minutes) adjourned. SIXT'Y-NINTH DAY. WEDNESDAY, April 13, 1870. The Convention met at nine o'clock, A. M., and was called to order by the President. Anderson, Gamble, Ross, Bayne, Hankins, Sedgwick, Benjamin, Hay, Sharp, Bromwell, Hildrip, Sutherland, Cameron, King, Tincher, Cary, Merriam, Vandeventer, Church, Moore, Wagner, Craig, Parks, Wall, Cross, Peirce, Washburn, Eldredge, Pillsbury, Wendling, English, Poage, Whiting, Forman, Rice, Mr. President-36, The PRESIDENT. There is not a quorum present, nor is there a quorum voting. Mr. KING. Mr. President: I move that the Convention do now adjourn till to-morrow morning at ten o'clock. Mr. CHURCH. There is a question of order, then, in regard to the adoption of the resolution. Less than a quorum may regulate the adjournments of the Convention, if there is not a quorum voting. The effect of the resolution would be to fix the hour of adjournment at nine o'clock, instead of the usual hour of ten o'clock. Mr. ROSS. I would like to offer a resolution. The PRESIDENT. In answer to the remark of the gentleman from McHenry [Mr. Church], the Chair would say that it cannot regard the resolution as rega 309 PRAYER. Prayer was offered by Rev. Dr. Bergen, of Springfield, as follows: Almighty Father, in whom we believe as God, our God, our fathers' God, and the reconciled God and Father of all who come to Thee through our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ; for this beautiful world, this beautiful morning, this habitation Thou hast given to us, we thank Thee. For the endearments of home, communion, fellowship, especially for Jesus Christ-blessed be God-and now for the light of the return of another pleasant morning, and pleasant spring season. We pray Thee that the blessing of God, even our covenant God, may rest on the members of this Convention, refreshed in their return to their places by the endearments of home and by pleasant recreation. We pray that Thou wilt give to each of us, to the presiding officer and all other officers, to all the members, and reporters, comprehensive cons ideration, calm and wise deliberation, a sound mind, and a fixed purpose in God, in right, in all that is good. May Thy blessing REPORT OF THFE COMMITTEE ONq RULES. Mr. ROSS. Mr. President: The Committee on Rules, to whom was referred the subject of amending the rules, have had the same under considerat ion, and make the f ollo wing report: The Committee on Rules, to which wars referred the subject of amending the rules, have had the same under consideration, and directed me to make the following report: PREVIOUS QUESTION. First-That rule forty-seven be so amended that it shall be in order to move the previous question on any pending amendment or motion, and the tffect of sustaining the call for the previous question shall be to bring the Convention to a vote, without debate, on the said amendment or motion only. LIMITATION OF DEBATE. RULE 50-No member shall speak more than ten minutes, nor more than once on the same question, either in the Convention or Committee of the Whole. DIRECT VOTE. RELE 51-The Committee of the Whole laay App.iL 12) 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1233 laames: Anderson, Gamble, Bayne, Hankins, BeDjaM!D, Hay, Bromwell, H i fd r,.i P, Cameron K!Dg, Cary, Merriam, Church, Moore, Craig,- Parks, Cross, Peirce, Eldredge, Pillsbury, English, Poage, Forman' Rice, The PitESIDENT. 124C-TTTOA O~ET~NWDEDY the gentleman can only be accomplished by voting down the proposition first. The question being on the adoption of the second rule, reported by the committee, a division was ordered. The Convention divided; when, there being twenty-four in the affirmative and eight in the niegative, the rule was agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the adoption of the third rule reported by the committee, known as rule fifty-one. It is as follows: RULE 51. The Committee of the Whole may at any time close debate and bring on a direct vote on any pending proposition, by a majority of two thirds of the committee. The third rule reported by the committee was agreed to. LEAVE OF ABSENCE. Mr. PEIRCE. I rise to ask extension of leave of absence for the gentleman from Livingston [Mr. Pillsbury]. I have a letter from him and a certificate from his attending physician, stating that his health is such that he is not able to be here. Leave was granted nern. con. ASSESSMENTS-APPROPRIATIONS. Mr. ANDERSON. Mr. President: I desire to introduce three additional sections, which I ask to have laid on the table and printed. The Secretary read the additional sections offered by Mr. Anderson, as follows: SEC.-. The General Assembly shall never authorize the assessment of taxes for State purposes, the aggregate of which shall exceed sixty-five cents on each one hundred dollars valuation. SEC. —. No appropriation, by joint resolution or otherwise, shall be made by the General Assembly, unless passed by a two-thirds vote of each house. SEC. —. County authorities shall never assess taxes, the aggregate of which shall exceed-cents for one hundred dollars valua tion, except for the payment of indebtedness existing at the adoption of this Constitution, unless authorized by a vote of the people of the county. The PRESIDENT. Tihe propositions will lie on the table for further action of the Convention. The question is now on the motion that they be printed. The motion was agreed to. LEAVE OF ABSENCE. Mr, HARWOOD. Mr. President: I desire to ask leave of absence for the gentleman from LaSalle [Mr. Hart], who is so circumstanced that he cannot return at once. Leave was granted nero. covn Mr. KING. I ask leave of absence for the gentleman from St. Clair [Mr. Snyder], who is sick. Leave was granted nero. con. Mr. HAY. I am requested by the genbtieman from Adams [Mr. Browning], to ask leave of absence fbr him on account of unavoidable detention at home. Leave was granted nero. con. Mr. MEDILL. I am requested by my colleague [Mr. fayes], to ask leave of absence for him until Monday next, as he is sunable to leave this week. Leave was granted nean. con. Mr. POAGE. I ask leave of absence for the gentleman from Rock Island [Mr. Truesdale], who is detained in consequence of sickness in his family. Leave was granted nem. con. Mr. DEMENT. I am informed by the gentleman from Stephenson [Mi. Turner] that he is detained on account of at any time close debate and bring on a direct vote, on any pending proposition, by a majority of two-thirds of the committee. Mr. President, I move the adoption of the report, and call for the previous question. The motion for the previous question was agreed to, and the main question ordered. The Secretary read the proposed rules, as follows: First-That rule forty-seven be so amended that it shall be in order to move the previous question on any pending amendment or motion, and the effect of sustaining the call for the previous question shall be to bring the Convention to a vote, without debate, on the said amendment or motion only. RULE 50. No member shall speak more than te n minutes, nor more than once on the same question, either in the Convention or Committee of the Whole. RULE 51. The Committee of the Whole may at any time close debate, and bring on a direct vote on any pending proposition, by a majority of two-thirds of the committee. Mr. SEDGWICK. Mr. President: I call for a division of the question. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the adoption of the first proposition of the committee, which is as follows: That rule forty-seven be so amended that it shall be in order to move the previous question on any pending amendment or motion, and th,, effect of sustaining the call for the previous question shall be to bring the Convention to -a vote, without debate, on the said amendment or motion only. The first rule reported by the committee was agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the second rule reported by the committee, which is as follows: RULE 50. No member shall speak more than ten minutes, nor more than once on the same question, either in the Convention or Committee of the Whole. Mr. McCOY. Mr. President: As I have heard some indication that there will be some difference of opinion upon that question, I would ask for a division of that proposition, so that the question may be taken first upon that part of the rule relating to questions before the Committee of the Whole, and then in rela tion to questions before the. Convention. Mr. ROSS. Mr. President: Although debate is not in order, I wish, by unanimous consent, to suggest that by a twothirds vote we can, at any time, dispense with any rule, and let any member be heard upon any question that we shall deem of sufficient importance. .The PRESIDENT. The Chair will state to the gentleman from Whiteside [Mr. McCoy], that it does not regard the proposition as divisible. The rule is that the proposition must not only contain two distinct points, but these points must be in such distinct form of language that either may stand by itself, in order to be; divisible. This rule is so constructed that it is impossible to make a division of the question. The proposition contains two distinct points, but not so distinct in language, so that each may stand alone. Mr. McCOY. Mr. President: I am in favor of it as it stands, but I wanted to vote upon the two parts separately. Mr. KING. Mr. President: I move to strike out the the wordl "(Convention," in the rule. The PRESIDENT. The previous question having been ordered, the question is not susceptible of debate. S'~he object of ser ious sickness in his family, and he re - quests me to ask leave of absence for an indefinite period. He will return as early as possible. Leave was granted hem. con. COMMITTEE ROOM AND JANITOR. Mr. KING. With the consent of the Convention, I would offer a resolution. The Secretary read the resolution offered by Mr. King, as follows: Resolved, That the senate chamber be opened for the use of committees, and that E. S. Reynolds be appointed janitor for the same. Mr. MOORE. There is no occasion for the adoption of that resolution. That matter was under consideration in the Committee on Accounts and Expenditures of the Convention, and we considered that there would be attendants in this chamber who could take care of the senate chamber, when required. They will not be wanted more than once a week. It is astonishing to see the number of persons hanging around the State house, begging for places. When we pull them offof the public teat, their mouths bleed, and they show us the wound, in order to move our compassion, and induce a re. appointment. I have no patience with their importuning. Mr. HAY. Mr. President: I ask a division of the question. Mr. PEIRCE. Mr. President: I move the resolution be referred to the Committee on Accounts and Expenditures. The motion was agreed to. ARTICLE -. SECTION —. N o county, city, town, township or school district, shall ever become subscriber to the capital stock of any private corporation, or make any donation to, or loan its credit in aid of any such corporation. This section shall be submitted to the legal voters of this State in manner following, towit: Separate ballots shall be provided at each place of voting, entitled "for section -," and "against section —;" and if it shall appear that a majoity of votes cast are for section -, then the said section shall be a part of this Constitution; but if a majority of the votes cast are against section -, then the said section shall be void and of no effect. I wish that my proposition be made a substitute for section forty-four of the legislative article. Mr. ROSS. Mr. President: I would suggest whether it would not be better to leave the question upon which so great diversity of opinion exists, until we have a fuller Convention. I think we had better take up some other question now, and-I therefore move a postponement of that order until Wednesday next. - Mr. CIHIURCH. Mr. President: If we should go on postponing for such a reason, I fear we should postpone for some time. 1234 CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENT'ION WED.NJZSDAY, SUBSCRIPTIONS TO CAPITAL STOCK. Mr. PEIRCE. Mr. President: If there is no further business, I move that the Conventioa do now resolve itself into Committee of the Whole, for the consideration of the pending order of the day. Mr. ROSS. Mr. President: What is the pending order? The PRESIDENT. The article proposed by the gentleman from Grundy [Alr. Peirce] in regard to subscriptions to railroad corporations. Will the gentleman state the proposition? Mr. PEIRCE. Mr. President: I have a copy of the article and will read it. It is as follows: API 317.DBTS DPOE-nS ~5 e in aid of private corporations, is both wrong in principle, and dangerous in s practice, but while it will no doubt in - some instances afford a check upon the r dangerous practice of voting municipal - aid to all sorts of objects, it yet fails utterly to declare that minorities have property rights, of which they cannot be deprived by the majority, for the pur- pose of donating it to enterprises in which they do not desire to subscribe. In fact, it does more and worse than this; it admits, as a constitutional principle, te at two-thirds of a municipality may right, filly take from the one-third their pri vate property, and invest it in such private enterprises, as the two-thirds shall deem most beneficial to themselves. Such a concession I cannot think the people are prepared to make. Neither can I think they are ready to declare for a two-thirds rule in voting upon any question. If a thing is right and just, I think they are willing the majority shall decide upon it; but if it is unjust and wrong in principle, they are not willing that it should be sanctioned by any vote, however large. Our friends from counties which are now engaged inrailroad speculations told us, when section forty-four was under consideration, that that section, with its twothirds rule of voting, would cause the people in the southern part of the State to vote almost solid against the Constitution. I am satisfied also, from much association with the people, and from a careful perusal of the opinions of the leading papers of both parties, that it will be the means, becauseit declares the right of the two thirds to take the property of the one-third without consent, of calling forth a very large vote from all the northern counties against the Constitution. Between that Scylla and this Charybdis there is no room for our Constitution to sail. Hie must be a wonderful pilot who can guide it in safety between such dangers. This granting of railroad subsidies is one of the most difficult questions with which we have had to deal. It is one upon which there has already been much discussion, and one upon which it seems impossible that this Convention can ever harmonize. It is my purpose, in presenting the section now under consideration to take an appeal from this body directly to the people for the settlement of this vexed question. I desire that it may be submitted to them unembarrassed by any other question, for their seperate and final determination; and I desire, further, that the body of the new Constitution which we shall submit, shall not be embarrassed by the conflicting views, opinions and interests of particular localities upon this question. It seems to me but a fair and reasonable claim, that a question of such vital importance to all the people, a questiono upon which there is so great a diversity of opinion, not only among members but throughout the State, and a question involving as this does, a great principle of government, shall be so presented that each elector may be permitted to express by his ballot his precise opinion and wishes upon it, without taking with it provisions which he dislikes, or without opposing measures which he approves in order that he may vote in accordance with his wishes upon this question. Myt only purpose then, in presenting this . measure, is to promote the freedom of the ARTICLE -. SECTION -. No county, city, town, township, or school district, shall ever become subscriber to the capital stock of any private corporation, or make any donation to,or loan its credit in aid of any such corporation. This section shall be submitted to the legal voters of this State in the manner following, to-wit: Separate ballots shall be provided at each place of voting, entitled "for section -," and "against section —;" and if it shall appear that a majority of the votes cast are for section -, then the said section shall be a part of this Constitution; but if a majority of th e votes cast a re against secti on -, then the said section shall b e void and of no effect., Mr. PEIRCE. Mr. Chairman: In presenting this section for submission to the vote of the people as a distinct and separate proposition, it is with the design that it shall take the place of section forty-four of the legislative article. That section, it will be remembered, authorizes subscriptions by cities, counties and towns to the capital stock of railroad and other corporations, upon the sanction of two-thirds of the legal voters of said cities, counties or towns. It will be further remembered that that section was adopted by a small majority, against the earnest remonstrances of two classes of opponents, to-wit: those who believe that counties, towns and cities should be permitted to subscribe to the these railroads and other enterprises whenever a majority shall so decide, and those who believe that no majority, however large, should be permitted to vote a tax upon the minority in aid of any private enterprise. The adoption of section fortv-four may be regarded as in the nature of a compronise between the two ideas; but while it was no doubt adopted in the spirit of compromise, it has signally failed to disarm the hostility of either side to the controversy. I think it is safe to say that any attempt to compromise a question of principle, is always a blunder. Either it is right that towns, counties and cities should subscribe to the stock of corporations, and tax the people to pay for such stock, by a majoritv vote, or it is wrong. If right, then it is clearly an act of injustice and usurpation to) require in the Constitution that a two-thirds vote shall be required, instead of a majority. If it is wrong in principle, then no majority, however large, can make it right. The adoption of the two-thirds rule is an admissionl that the voting of debts or tat~, people in making a final decision, by x their votes, of this great principle of the tenure of property, and the rights of the people to its secure possession, under our C onstitution. Up on th i s question the people are thoroughly awake ned, and I am strongly impressed with the con viction that there is no line of policy upon which we can L unite that will save the new Constitution, except it be to submit this question to the people for their separate decision. I will not attempt to predict how thev will de cide it-whether they will approve or re ject the section. But as I maintain that they alone have the right to decide it they alone can make and unmake Consti tutions-they alone can change the prin ciples upon which the government shall be administered-there is the utmost pro priety in presenting this question, unham pered by other issues, so that we may havea fair expression upon its real mer its. I desire to make a slight change in the wording of the proposition, so that it can be more plainly and fairly submitted to the popular vote, and so that, if this sec tion shall receive a majority of votes, it shall be a part of the Constitution of the State, whether the balance of the new Constitution be adopted or not. With this amendment it will read as follows: ARTICLE -. SECTION.-NO county, city, town, town ship or school district shall ever become sub scriber to the capital stock of any private corporation, or make any donation to, or loan its credit in aid of, any such corporation. This section shall be submitted to the legal voters of this State in manner following, towit: Separate ballots shall be provided, at each place of voting, entitled "for section-," and "against section -- *" and if it shall appear that a majority of votes cast are for section —, then the said section shall be a part of the Constitution of this State; but if a majority of the votes cast are against section —, then the said section shall be void and of no effect. I therefore move to amend by striking out the word "this" in the eight line, and inserting the word "the," and also insert after the word "Constitution," in the same line, the words "of this State." The amendment was agreed to. Mlr. McCOY. Mr. Chairman: I call for the reading of the forty-fourth section of the legislative article, so that we may understand what this proposition is a substitute for. The Clerk read section forty. four of the article on the legislative department, as follows: SEC. 44. The General Assembly shall never authorize counties, cities or other municipalities, to take stock in or donate any money or other property in aid of any railroad company or other corporation, except by and with the consent of two-thirds of the voters of the county. city or other municipality to be so M'r. S:EDGWICK. 3r. Chairman: I move to further amend, by striking out the ~word "private" in the second line. The reason I do this, in part, is, because it is well unders.ood that our courts have held that railroad corporations are publItc, as well as private corporations —or of a mixed character. And I suppose this section was gotten up for the especial purpose of preventing subscriptions to the stock of railroad corporations. I do not deem it necessary to make any extended remarks —only to call attention to this fact; and I therefore make the motion to strike oult the word "private.~ APRIL 13, 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1235 I hardly know a question that may b with more propriety considered now It is not proposed to make it fiyaal, unles ratified by a vote separately taken. There fore it seems to me that we may ponside this question with more eminent proprie ty than another, as there can be no objec tion to submitting it to the people. The question being on the' motion o Mr. Ross to pospone the special order un til Wednesday next, a division was or dered. The Convention divided, when the motion was not agreed to. The question then being on the motion of Mr. Peirce, that the Conveiition resolve itself into Committee of the Whole to consider the additional article offered by him, it was agreed to. So the Convention, as in Committee o the Whole (Mr. Dement in the chair), proceeded to the consideration of the article above mentioned. The Clerk read the article offered by Mr. Peirce, as follows: 1236 CO~STITUITIO~AL ()O~YE-TION AENSD [Mr. Peirce] in the first part of his article, by making this a substitute for the section of the article upon the Legislature, which this provision fails to accomplish, so far as its language is concerned, and it will leave the people to understand this to be the only provision on the subject, so far as the second amendment is concerned; that there will be no restriction upon the people as to their getting in debt, if they choose to wipe out both this section and the section in the article on the legislative department. Mr. PEIRCE. Mr. Chairman: It is my purpose to move to strike out section forty-four of the legislative article, when it shall be reported back by the Committee on Revision and Adjustment, and to present this question of voting by counties, cities and municipal authorities on railroad subscriptions, to the people as a distinct proposition, and let them decide by a msjority vote whether they will al. low it or disallow it. If we adopt this section now, and refer it to the Committee on Revision and Adjustment, I design, when that committee shall report back the legislative article, to strike from that article the fourty-fourth section. Mr. ROSS. Mir. Chairman: Would it now be in order to move to strike out the article? The CHAIRMAN. There is an amendment pending.. It is in order to move an amendment to that amendment. Mr. ROSS. Mr. Chairman: In my own judgment, the Convention will commit a grave error if they take any action whatever upon this subject of railroad subscriptions. It will be much wiser and safer to leave it exactly as it is in the old Constitution. There was no complaint made by the people of this State against the old Constitution upon this question; and one of their great complaints now against the Constitutional Convention is, that it is attempting to do too muchmore than they want-more than they expected. They require but fcw amendments at our hands; and with the full knowledge of this before us, shall we attempt to say that we will incorporate a provision in the new Constitution not required or demanded by the people, and against which there is so strong an opposition as there is against this proposed amendment 9 I ask, what right the State of Illinois has to determine to what extent the county of Sangamon or of Fulton shall vote debts upon themselves? That is a question for these municipalites, and these counties, and these cities to determine for themselves; and Chicago or Cairo has no right to say what Fulton or Sangamon counties, or any other ccunty in the State, shall vote upon themselves. It is taking the power away from the people to determine this important question. It is a retrograde movement in the wrong direction, and should not be made by the Constitutional Convention. We should permit the people to determine these things for themselves. I hope that this article will be stricken out, and then, when we reach section forty-four, we will strike that out, and leave this question exactly as it stands in M the old Constitution. No man in the State can then vote against the adoption of the new Constitution on account of any objection on that ground, because it will be identically the same as the old Constitu Mr. PEIRCE. I will acc ept th e amendment. Mr. CHURCH. Mr. Chairman: There may some danger arise by the adoption of this amendment, in the form in which it is. If the courts should settle down and determine that railroad corporations are public corporations, I should be very glad of it, but I have but little hope that they will. It seems to me that the objection might be met by inserting after the word "private," the words "or railroad corporations," thereby guarding against the difficulties which might arise by striking out the word "private." I believe that it does often become necessary and proper that counties should give aid to lesser public corporations within their own limits. I have known of instances where heavy burdens have been imposed upon townships in counties of supporting bridges across rivers. I might mention the case of Rockford, or some cases in my own county, which are of benefit to the entire county, but which impose heavy burdens upon particular towns, on account of which it sometimes has been thought proper for the county to give aid in cases of that kind; and I suggest to the gentleman from Grundv [Mr. Peirce] and the gentleman from DeKalb [Mr. Sedgwick], whether, in view of the interests that might arise, the insertion of the words "or railroads" after the word "private." would not meet the objections that have been raised, and at the same time not be obnoxious to the other objection. Mr. PEIRCE. I am perfectly willing to accept it. What I mean by the words "private corporations" is railroads, and I have no objection to saying so. Mr. SEDGWICK. I have no objection to the amendment. Mr. POAGE. Mr. Chairman: There is one query in my mind, the solving of which will have something to do with my vote upon this proposition. It is as to the effect of the adoption of this article as a substitute for section forty-four. Suppose these sections are voted down, and consequently do not become part of the Constitution, do we then have section forty-four of the legislative article as a part of the Constitution, on the supposition that the Constitution is adopted, or are we left without any restraint in this matter of subscribing money to these corporations? Mr. WASHBURN. Fir. Chairman: I would suggest to the gentlemen that they had better strike out the word p'va es and insert the word "railroad." Then we shall know exactly what is meant. I suggest that that language will cover all that they intend to secure, and still would not bring on any conflict with any of their local interests. I think that it would be far better to choose just exzactly the language that Will express precisely what they intend and desire to secure. Mir. ENGLISH. Mir. Chairman. I would like to move the following amendment: Insert after the word "Constitution"' in the eighth line} the following words:~ "And shall be substituted for sectigon forty-four of the legislative department." Also, after the word "section" in the last clause of the ninth line, insert the following words: "And said section forty-four of the legislative article." The effect will be the carrying out of the idea of the gentlematfrom Grundy. tion. We can strike out s ection fo rtyfour in the legislative article. Now, I submit, Mir. Chairman, in all candor and frankness, that we had better make only such amendments as the people require at our hands, and leave those which they do not demand, undone. There are some things they do not ask. And although we so much need a new Constitution in this State, our labors will prove entirely futile, and the people will ignore our actions, if we attempt too much. I hope we will consider this question. It is not only of great importance, in one view, but it is a fact that we cannot run the State government a month without violating a Constitution containing such a provision as is here proposed. I hope we will do nothing which will arouse the hostility of the people and defeat our whole effort. Mr. SEDGWICK. Mr. Chairman: I am certainly very much astonished by the doctrine enunciated by the distinguished gentleman from Fulton [Mr. Ross], especially as he has been considered the "vwheel-horse" in the democratic party here. Sir, if I understand anything about the democratic party, it is that majorities shall rule. Now, he asks us what right the majority of the people of the State of Illinois have to say that Sangamon county shall not make appropriations to railroads? I answer that Sangamon county is a part of the State of Illinois, and being a part, if the people are in a minority, according to the good old democratic rule, they must submit. Mr. ROSS. Mr. Chairman: I would submit that the good old democratic rule is, to have every person and community mind his or its own business, and not in tefere with the affairs of other people and other communities. Let Sangamon county attend to its own affairs and be content therewith; thus bringing repre sentation and taxation down to the people in localities and neighborhoods. That is the true theory. Mr. SEDGWICK. Mr. Chairman: If that is the "good old democratic rule," why, then, I may steal, I may do what I please, without anybody's right to ques tion. Is that the doctrine? N~ow, sir, the point is this —that the whole people shall say whether this principle shall be incorporated into the Constitution or not. It seems~ to me that is in accordance with the democratic doctrine. Mr. ROSS. Mr. Chairman: Will the gentleman let me ask whether he would be willing that the question should be submitted to the whole people of the State, whether his own county should build a cou~rt house or not? Mir. SEDGWICK. Yes, sir, perfectly willing;i and that is the effect of the press ent law, fin we get no authority to build a court house, but by the consent of the Legislature. The Legislature is supposed to represent the people. That is exactly the Bway we3 build court houses —by permission of the people of Illinois, through their Legislature. Mir. VAINDEVENTER. Did the people perm~it the Legislature to build the nesw State house? Mir. SEDGWICK. Mir. Chairman: The people did it in one sense, though thaey Were, perhaps, not please~ with it when CONSTITIJTIONAL COI'QVENTION WF,DNESDAY? 1236 APRIL 13, 1870. DEBATES AD PROCEEDJGS. 1237 people of the whole State; there are other questions that belong to counties, and to cities, and to townships, and to districts, and it is no fair test of sound principle, or, if the gentleman from De Kalb [Mr. Sedgewick] chooses to use the other term, of "democracy", to say that that which concerns a community locally, ought to be submitted to the whole body of the people of the State. That which concerns the policy of the State, or the interest of the State, ought not to be submitted (because it is purely a State question) to a majority of the people of the United States; nor ought a question that concerns a county, that is peculiarly local, that affects that commu nity, and the burdens of supporting which are to be borne by that commu nity, to be submitted to the people of the whole State. If a large portion of the people of this State have got all the railroads they want by this very system, and are interested in defeating rival roads and the business and growth of rival cities, I ask if it is fair, when a community that has not got these advantages pro poses to obtain them at its own expuense, and at its own cost, to submit that ques tion to a vote of the people who have already obtained those advantages, and are anxious to defeat any other rival in terests? I am opposed to the proposition for the reasons that I have stated. It is the business of the counties and of the cities that desire these facilities and who pro- pose to bear the burden of them, if bur den it is, to decide whether they will have them or not, and not the business of the people of the whole State. If the gentleman's county has got all the rail ro ads that the people want, I ask what right he has to say that the people of my county, if they propose to take stock in a road and obtain the same advantages which his county has already acquired, shall not have these railroad facilities if they have a mind to pay for them? It is unfair and it is unjust, and I am op posed to submitting this proposition to the people of the whole State. It is not a question, in the shape in which it comes pp, that belongs to the people of the whole State; it is a ques tion that belongs to each particular mu. municipality to determine for itself, and the gentleman from Fulton [Mr. Ross] is right, and is perfectly consistent with his position as a "war-horse" of the demo c cratic party, if the gentleman from D e. tKalb [Mr. Sedgwick] chooses to use that as a means of holding him up as stultifyi ng himself before the country for opposing the proposition. It is perfectly consistent with the democratic principle. Nothing else is consistent. It is a sort of federal notion —the notion of centralization of power-that every local community has got to consult the entire State, or that every State has got to consult a majority of the people of the United States, upon every State or local question. Mr. CHURCH. Mr. Chairman: I did hope that this question had been so sufficiently discussed, that the principles involved in it would not receive any more attention, and that when it was proposed to remove the objections that were urged against the adcption of section forty-four, the friends of this restriction would have teen met half way by those who opetposed the adoption of this restriction, done. The people sent representatives here, and they, as such, voted to build a new State house. But this is wandering from the subject. The proposition is not to submit this ques tion to the Legislature, but directly to the people themselves. Are the gentle men on the other side afraid of the peo ple? I ask for an answer. Are they afraid to submit this to the people? Mir. ROSS. Why not permit each county to determine this question for it self? Is not that submitting it directly to the people interested e What interest is it to the gentleman's county whether Fulton county chooses to tax itself or not? Answer that. Why do you want to inter meddle with our business? Mr. BRONIWELL. Mr. Chairman: I rise to a question of order. The gentle man from Fulton [Mr. Ross] introduced a rule this morning, which was adopted, that no gentleman should speak more than once on one subject. This is the fourth time he has been on the floor on this sub ject. The CHA_IRMtAN. The Chair under stood that he was prepounding questions to the gentleman on the floor. Mr. SEDGWICK. Mr. Chairman: I propose to hold the gentlemen on the other side to the naked question whether they will trust this matter of making this a part of the Constitution, to the people. I ask them to answer it. Mr. VANDEVENTER. Mr. Chair man: I feel little disposition to enter into anv discussion on this subject, know ing the sentiments and opinions of this Convention, as I have learned them to be, during the last three, four or five months. This question is certainly bound to go before the people in one way or another. I am satisfied that the idea of the gentle man from Fulton [Mr. Ross] will not be carried out, however much I may sympa thize with and endorse it. I simply want to know the position of affairs at present, and say a word in re gard to the amendment of the gentleman from Greene [Mr. English]. It certainly would not look well it there were no sec tion forty-four in the Constitution at all, and there will not be if this article is adopted. This will be "in lieu" of a section that does not appear in the Con atitution at all. There is no propriety to declare that fact in this section at all. Onle word in reply to the gentleman Trom De~alb [Mr. Sedgwick] about putting this end of the hall to a certain test. I atm not aware that any gentleman on this side of the hall speaks for me — though heq may assume to. I am in favor of submitting to the people, not only this question, but I will go further (and I hope the gentleman will go with me), and say I ama in favor of submitting every article separately, if practicable. If good, the people will adopt them, and if not they will reject them. I am in tfavor of a majority voting on this question. Other questions will arise here before we adjourn sine die, where we will be glad of the aid of the gentleman ~romDe~alb [Mr. Sedgwick] in submitting them to the people. Mr. RWICE. Mr. Chairman: I know that in the view which some gentlemen Eake of this question, it is very captivating to talk of submitting everything to the people. Now there are some questions that belong to the, 310 APRIL 13. 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDIINGS. 1237 upon the ground tbat,it was a restriction upon the right of the people to tax them selves. It was iirged, when this question was being debated before, that this was nei ther more ror less than a proper protec tion of property, and if it can be urged that a particular locality has the right to, violate the rights of private property, because a majority of that locality are willing to do it for the time being, why may it not with the same propriety be urged that it is proper democratic doc trine to say that a particular locality shall make its laws in regard to the life and liberty of citizens, and if it chooses, adopt a code of capital offenses, that shall be enforced in that particular 1,,)cality? Why should the people of such a locality not have a right to do it, if they have a right to ad,,)pt,t rule b which a majority of the people may take the property ol a minority, and subiect it to their nOtiODS of what may be a proper invest ment? As I observed before, I thought that had been sufficiently discussed, and I do not believe a continuation of the discus sion of the principle involved in the proposition will change the mind of a Single man in this committee, or the mind of a single voter in this State. But I will very briefly state why there is a question, aside from the abstract ques tion of right involved in it, aside from the fact that I consider it my duty to stand here to protect every citizen of the Statrl,,, even to protect them against the encroachment of the majorities, if gentlemen choose to put it in that form. Why are our bills of ri-ahts-why are our limitatiop-s here, uiale for the protection of life, liberty and property against any sudden action of majorities that might arise? The same question is involved here. But there is reason why we do, throughout this whole State, feel interested in this question. It is well known that there are laws now in force by which we do feel it, whether we choose to adopt this plan in our'localities ornot. It i4 known that upon our statutes there is a law, by which counties and towns are encouraged to vote these subscriptions, to vote these loans, because they are allowed to retain their State taxes to pay them ith. There is another statute creatin p238 COSTITUTIOAL COYETION WEDNESDAY, condemned is determined upon by the sovereign power of the State, and the compensation.secured by courts and juries. In that case, the question of compensation is a question not submitted to a town-meeting, but.to proper authorities fixed by law, to determine upon the comp ensation that a man shall receive for the condemnation of his property; but here, sir, it is proposed to vote a tax upon certain men to oblige them to build railroads. Who, let me ask, fixes the compensation that any man shall receive? sNo one, except the town-meeting, which votes upon the question of creating the debt. [Here the hammer fell.] Mr. WASHBURN. Mr. Chairman: It is strange to me to see how men's interests will sometimes control their opinions. It is contended here that the true democratic doctrine is that every man has the right to do as he pleases with his own. I believe that the true democratic doctrine is that each individual should be left to enjoy the largest liberty of life, person and property, so long as he does not trespass on the rights of other men. That is tho old democratic doctrine. I do not know whether it is republican or not. Then comes up the question as to the rights of majorities. The true democratic theory of government is that majorities have the right to rule. I believe they do, and that nobody else but majorities have the right to rule; but this should be lim ited to the right to rule in all respects necessary for the purposes of government, and I doubt whether the men who stand up in favor of the right of these counties to take stock or subscribe donations for the purpose of building railroads or aid ing corportions, can justify their position on this principle-the right of a major ity, or a two-thirds majority, or any other kind of majority, to take the funds t)f their neighbors and appropriate them for the purpose of building railroads or any other internal improvements. My opin ion is that this is a departure from the true theory of the government. Let me say to the gentleman irom Mc Henry [Mr. Church], it stands precisely on the same grounds as do the public schools. The gentleman from McHenry [Mr. Church] shakes his head in dissent. But, unless he can prove to me that the children in this State belong to the State instead of their parents, I still maintain the assertion; and if he undertakes to justify it on the grounds of public inter est, then the community might say that public interest would justify it in behalf of appropriations to railroads. There is; no other difference, unless we can abso lutely say that the minors, or children, in the State, belong to the people of the State, instead of to their parents. It can be justified only on the ground that public interest demands it, and who shallh stand up and say that public interest may not equally demand appropriations for the building of railroads s When men get up and view this sub ject in a party light, let me say there is no one party that can justify their entire course in regard to it; for while fifteen T or twenty years ago the republicans were in favoi of the extreme of individual rights and maintained them in opposition to the rights of the majorities, that same republican party of a later day stood on the doctrine that the rights of majorities were unlimited. The rights of minori CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION WED11ZESD-&-rl 1238 ties were'completely swallowe.d up in every regard., But to-day there is another reformation, and because it does not suit their inte-rest they are now again in favor of individual rights, and in opposition -to the rights of local majorities to rule. So it will not do perhaps for any party to undertake to ustify their consiste.ucy on the,, e things; and, as I said in the outset,men's interest at different times control their feelings, opinions and action. While I believe the true,theory is that neither Constitution nor laws nor rnajorities should undertake to control private individuals, except when absolutely necessary for the purpose of government, and that the true' theory is that no two of my neighbors have the right to put their hands into my pocket and take out money for any private purpose, yet in regard to the buildidg of railroads and other internal improvements, the thing has been so long acted upon and acquiesced in, not only by the people of Illi. nois, but by those of every State in the Union, that it is rather late in the day for us to come up now and deny it. it has been acquiesced in for the last thirty. five or.forty years. Whatever may be the truth or.falsity of the principle, coun ties, cities, town s and every State in the Union have haps acted on the same principle-the right of majorities to put the ir hands into the pockets of minori ties and donate their property for the purpose of internal,i.mprovements. It has been so long acted upon that, whatever be the.true theory, it is, as I sai d a mo ment ago, rather late now to come up and deny it; and that is the very thing Sought to be effected by the proposition now pending before this Convention. It is an endeavor to. go back forty years behind the action and le' lation of the whole country for more than forty years, and un,dertake to be,,gin anewon the right principle. I must confess, for one, that if the peo ple of Illinois had acted on this theory throughout, from beginning to end, I would be willing to join the reformation; but as things stand at the present time, I am not quite ready to join it, for one por tion of the State have obtained all these railway conveniences they desire, and my portion of the State not having obtained county are reduced somewhat, the assess-ments in Winnebago county are raised somewhat, and what is the effect? The assessments in both counties are higher than they were before, and higher than hey should be. What follows? The increase of tax in Fulton County remains with Fulton. county, to pay the debt -of Fulton county. The increased taxes in Winnebago county go into the treasury of the State,;to run the State government with. Now, that is the practical operation of the laws that -are now in force in this State, the practical operation of these subscriptions-of these county and city debts; and while that permission stands, that is the inducement for all hands to procure that kind of legislation. Now, it is eminently proper and mani festly just, that the assessments of this State should be equalized, so that the assessments and taxes of different counties and localities of the State should be equal, and according to the value of the property. But there are different inducements -held out to different localities to assess their property high, because by.so doing, in one place they keep the tax which they pay by assessiDg it high, while in the other places they pay it. That is the difference, and that is the rason why I say we do feel an interest in the question, aside from what we regard to be our -duty, to protect the minorities through out our State, and preserve a correct prin ciple in the Constitution. . I do not believe, notwithstandidg the practice has received the sanction of some -courts-I do not believe that it is sound in principle. I do not believe that it, is right or can ever be justifiable for a mu nicipal corporation to compel the minor ity of its people to engage lic these spec ulations against their will, and against their views of propriety. It is not right, and no decisions of any court under heaven can make it right, to force them to pay taxes for anythidg ex. cept in connection with the legitimate purposes of either general, State or mu li lpi,pal government. I fully concede the .rlgh,' to impose taxes to any amount iiec essary i,,i, order to support schools, police regulations, and all the necessary pur poses of State, county and municipal gov t be ond that I do not APL 13, 1870. DEBATES AND 1'ROCEEDINGS. 123w tnt to Mr. MEDILL. Mr. Chairman: Is the is in question on the motion to strike out? The CHAIRMAN. Yes; and the Chair o ob- supposes that now is the time to move to p his insert the proposition of the gentleman from Woodford [Mr. Bayne]. As I Mr. MEDILL. Mr. Chairman: I retitute gret that the discussion has taken this ,form. I had hoped that the committee f vot- would confinee itself tG perfecting the secilroad tion, instead of struggling over the existchool ence of the section itself. at noed I am surprised to hear some of my [oed l have friends on the left affirm the doctrine next that voting subscriptions or gratuities to aship, railways, or in aid of local improvements, vote, is a matter that interests nobody but the o particular locality that so votes. - I am lbsti astonished to hear gentlemen of the abiltposi- ity and legal attainments of my friends rticle from Fulton [Mr. Ross] and from Mont) not gomery [Mr. Rice] maintain such untenaluires ble propositions. The fact is that this e, the section affects every county equally, in And t proportion to the tax it pays. The in ge- spiring motive at this time for voting so ], ma- profusely hundreds of thousands and m ail upon lions of dollars of gratuities to railroads, prin- in every portion of the State, is to build right those railroads out of the State treasury s, sir, It is the vicious law of 1869 that causes rities. these reckless appropriations to be going prin- on all over the State. There is a rivalry here- a struggle between the various couinth ar- ties and localities in half this State, as to tbwhich shall plunge most deeply into the od by State treasury, in aid of local projects; tre], gand when gentlemen affirm tbat it it s a ter to mere local question that does not affect a the interests of the whole people, they shall simply look at one side of that question, le of and fail to examine the reverse sode. thatip or Mr. Chairman, if the county of Fulton x that votes a gratuity of five hundred thousand large dollars in aid of the construction of some a local railway, it simply means that the Cth a county of Knox, if she has not done the fifty same thing, shall pay into the State treasshall ury fifty thousand dollars a year in excess need of her proper proportion of t,he burdens have of the State government. If the county strict of Sangamon involves herself in the same nties. way, and diverts one hundred thousand roper dollars of taxes that should pass into the fered State treasury, that one hundred thousand ile in dollars must be made good by the county ten — of McLean, in addition to her own prostock portion of the burdens of the State govis a ernment. And so to theextentofevery from subscription to railways in every portion coun- of this State, in which money is voted toth- under the law of 1869, the other portions lroad of the State are taxed to make good the pense amount so diverted from the State treasutheir ry. I say, therefore, it is a question ofa i in a peculiar interest to every tax payer inl em at every county, in every city, and in every vote municipality of the State of Illinois; and the proper form of determining this that. question is that proposed by this commitOehere tee-to submit it to the direct vote of the real people, all' being interested in it, and let evy a them pass upon it at Ahe ballot box. dal, or Not arguing the question raised by then te for gentleman from McEHenry [Mr. Church], oposi- of the right of the majority to take the tf the property of the minority and give it to a ested. third person-I- say, not raising this grave ion of question which lies behind the proposidayne] tion under discussion, but accepting the e the general proposition, that such may be pd- be donethis is a proposition to be voted gentle- upon directly and apart from the main man f ubody of the Constitution I understand to hav e the gentleman's substitute se the desk and read. I suppose that order. The CHAIRMAN. If there is n~ jection, the gentleman can send u substitute and have it read. Mr. BAYNE. Mr. Chairman: drew it hastily, I will read the subst myself. It is as follows: At all elections held for the purpose o! ing a tax, or for taking stock in any rat company, in any county, township, s district, or municipal corporation, for purpose whatever, no person shall be all to vote at said elections unless he shall been a resident of the State for one year preceding the election, and of the town precinct, or ward in which he offers his for six months. My reason, sir, for offering this su tute is this: I do not like the pro tion contained in the forty-fourth a] of the Legislative report, for I do consider it as republican, since it req a two-thirds vote, when, as I suppose true principle is that majorities rule. if, according to the doctrine of the tleman from McHenry [Mr. Church] jorities have no right to infringe the rights of the minority, on that ciple, sir, two-thirds have no more than a bare majority, and ninetenth. have no right to impose upon minor But our government stands upon the ciple that the majority shall rule; t fore, I cannot indorse the forty-fourt ticle. - Neither do I like the one offerer the gentleman from Grundy [Mr. Pet proposing to submit the whole matt a vote of all the people of the State If you submit this, saying that it require a majority of all the peopl the State to allow a county, townsh school district to levy a tax, I think would infringe upon the rights of a ] class of the people. What right, sir, has Chicago, wi population of two hundred and thousand, to say that my township not levy taxes? Chicago does not railroads, but there are localities that not those privileges, and if we re., them, we do an injustice to those cour As I said before, this is the pl principle, and the substitute I of here will do away with all the trouti voting these taxes, so far as I have se and I have seen much'of this voting: in my time. One township, if-it township matter, will import voters the adjoining townships. If it is a ( ty question, voters are brought from er counties. For instance, a rat wants to build a branch at the ex] of the people. They concentrated workmen from all parts of the road given township, or county, keep the work there thirty days, and then the tax with them. By mny proposition we get ridl of Only actual residents will vote.1 will be a fair expression of the residents, and if theyr choose to 1~ tax for a railroad, or school, or can other purpose, and the majority sol it, I have no doubt it Will be a pr( lion that will advance the interest o county, town, or school district inters The CHAIRMAN~. The propositi the gentleman from Woodford [hMr B would be in order if moved -to take place of this article, in: case it shou] striken out on the motion of the go man from Fulton []Yr. Ross]. DEBATES ANIJ PROCEEDINGS. Ap]aIL 13) 1870. 1239 one objector to say that if this article were submitted separately, it would involve the defeat of the Constitution. How so? If this article is carried, it will. be a portion of the existidg Constitution. Voting down the new Constitution will not defeat it. Adopting the new Constitution,.and adopting this article, give,,l it no more validity than Voting down the new Constitution and adopting this article. It therefore stands and falls upon its own merits. If it receives the sanction of a majority of the electors, it becomes a part of the Constitution, whether the old or the new one. If it is voted down, the old or the new Constitution stands or falls by the vote cast for or against the new one. Heiace, this is a separate and independent proposition, and must not and should Dot be entangled with the Constitution proper, and that, as I understand, is the feeling of the committee who reported it I do not propose to enter into a dis. cussion on the merits of the question. My purpose in rising was to ref6te the point made by the gentleman from Fulton [Mr. Ross], and some others, that this is a matter which is nobody'g business but that of the mere locality voting bonuses to railways. I contend that it is everybody's business in all parts of the State. It is absurd to affirm that a county, a city or a township is an independent portion of the State, or is a sovereignty, in any sense, as against the whole State. A county or town has no more right to set itself up a'gain,st the will of the State in this matter, than to enact laws independent of the State Legislature. I cannot understand how any lawyer can affirm that anv local municipality has rights that are not common to the'people of the State, and Dot under the'Coiitrol of the peoples Legislature or the' eople's p Conveiation.- We do not recognize an hundred and two counties with sovereign powers within our State, and two, thousand independent townships or precincts. The State has conferred on these municipalities, for local purposes, certain powers. But beyond these, they have none whatever. Whatever authority counties and other local municipalites have to vote money to private corporations, they derive from the State government and nowhere else. Individuals may do. nate their mon to whom th lease 1240 CO~~~~~STITUTIO~~~~~~AL CONYI~~~~~~TJON WEDNESDAY,~~~~~~~ tiemen do-vote upon every proposition upon its own merits. The CHAIRMAN. The question is upon striking out the article and insertinog the proposition of the gentleman from Woodford [Mr. Bayne.] The Clerk read the amendment offered by Mr. Bayne, as follows: At all elections held for the purpose of voting a tax, or for taking stock in any railroad company, in any county, township, school district or municipal corporation, for any purpose whatever, no person shall be allowed to vote at said election unless he shall have been a resident of the State for one year next preceding the election, and of the township, precinct or ward in which he offers his vote, for six months. Mr. PEIRCE. Mr. Chairman: I call for a division of the question. The CHAIRMAN. The question will be upon striking out the article proposed by the gentleman from Grundy [Mr. Peirce]. Mr. VANDEVENTER. Mr. Chairman: I do not understand that this arti cle, introduced by the gentleman from Grundy [Mr. Peirce], has ever been adopted by the Convention or committee. I do not see the propriety of striking out something which has never been acted upon or adopted. If we refuse to recommend this to the Convention, that will be a rejection of it. I do not see the propriety of proposing to strike out. I understood the motion was to strike out section forty-four. The CHAIRMAN. The Committee of the Whole have the matter in their possession. They have amended it in one or more particulars, and the Chair has decided that it is in order to strike out what remains of it. Mr. McCOY. I wish to submit this question whether this committee can amend a section which has been referred to the Committee on Revision and Adjustment by the Convention. A proposition presented to the Convention is passed over to the Committee of the Whole. They propose to amend a section already passed upon by the Convention and referred to the Committee on Revision and Adjustment. I take it, this is not a proper subject to be before the Committee of the Whole. Any section in the legislative article is not a propor subject for this committee at all. Mr. ROSS. That question does not arise now. Nobody proposes to amend section forty-four., The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman from Whiteside [Mr. McCoy] does not rise to strike out the article. Mr. McCOY. I wish to understand that while voting for or against this proposition, we do not vote with reference to anything contained in the legislative article; nor can we vote with that view, for the reason that it is not before the committee. The CHAIRMAN. The question is on the motion of the gentleman from Fulton [Mr. Ross]. A division was ordered. The committee divided, when, there being nineteen in the affirmative and twenty in the negative, the motion of Mr. Ross to strike out was declared agreed to. Mr. ROSS. Has a quorum voted?, The CHAIRMAN. No. Mr. ROSS. I object to this subject being declared settled, unless a quorum votes. Mr. KING. Mr. Chairman: I think there are a good many gentlemen who do not understand what they are voting upon. I do not understand it myself. I would like to know the precise question before the c ommittee. I understand the proposition to strike out, to be passing upon this article in the legislative department upon which we have already passed in Convention. Now, I want to know how this commit tee can strike out an article in the legis lative department which has been passed upon by the Committee of the Whole, referred to the Convention, passed upon in Convention, and referred to the Com mittee upon Revision. If we can do that, it is all right, but I cannot see through it myself. The CHAIRMAN. Will the gentleman allow the Chair to explain? The Chair does not understand that the question the gentleman raises is at ail involved in the motion to strike out this article. Mr. KING. Then, I am under a mis. apprehension. The CHAIRMAN. The motion is to strike out the article under consideration; not to strike out what has been passed upon by the Committee of the Whole. It does not touch the legislative article. Mr. TINCHER. Mr. Chairman: I understand the motion to have the same effect as a motion to strike out all after the enacting clause of a bill, which if done kills the measure. The CHAIRMAN. Yes, sir, all after the enacting clause of a bill. The motion of Mr. Ross, to strike out, was not agreed to. Mr. HAY. Mr. Chairman: I desire to submit an amendment to this first sec tion. The CHAIRMAN. There is an amend ment now pending, offered by the gentle man from Greene [Mr. English.] The Clerk read the amendment offered by Mr. English, as follows: Insert after the word "Constitution" in the eighth line the following: "And shall be substituted for section fourty-four, of the article on the legislative department." Also, insert after the word "section" in the last clause of the ninth line the words: I'And said section fourty-four of the legislative article." The CHAIRMAN. The question is upon the amendment offered by the gentleman from Greene [Mr. English]. The amendment was not agreed to. Mrr KING. Mr. Chairman: I move that the committee do now rise, report progress, and ask leave to sit again at ten o'clook totmotrrow morning. The question being on the motion of Mr. Kinlg, a division was ordered. The committee divided, when, there being nine in the affirmative and twenty. two in the negative, the motion was not agreed to. tMr. ROSS. Mr. Chairman: I move that the committee take a recess of ten minutes. The motion was agreed to. So the Committee of the Whole (at eleven o'clock and five minutes) took a recess of ten minutes. The committee having being called to order — Mr. HAY. Mr. Chairmanl: I offer the following amendment, which I will read: Add at the end of line three the following: "xProvided, however, That the adoption of this article shall not be construed as affecting the right of any such municipality to make such subscriptions, where tlae same have been authorized under extisflng laws byr a know but, as a matter of principle, the gentleman from Fulton [Mr. Ross] is right, and that we should strike out of this new Constitution everything of the kind; and, if we could agree to do that, then we could get through with making this Constitution, and be ready to adjourn by the time mentioned by my friend from Perry [Mr. Wall.] The trouble is, that when we come to apply these general principles to particu lar measures in which we are interested, one way or the other, we do not all see alike. There are a half dozen things that we have put in this Constitution which we had better strike out —things that look like legislation, things not demanded by the people, things that we were not sent here to put into the Con stitution at all, things that, in parts of the State, are utterly objectionable to the people, and that will give rise to great opposition to this Constitution. If we would agree to strike out all things of this kind, and only make those amendments which are really necessary, really demanded, and really expected by the people, we would make short work of this thing; but when we come practically to apply that general principle to particular propositions, there is then as great diversity of opinion, and every man goes for anything that he thinks will satisfy his locality, and against anything that he thinks will not satisfy such locality. As to the general doctrine of the gentleman from Fulton [Mr. Ross], I should have been very glad, a- few weeks ago, when some of us were opposing, as earn estly as we could, a proposition to put into the Constitution a limitation upon the power of the Legislature to make judicial districts, if some of these gentlemen had come to the rescue and helped us out in that contest. The same princi ple applies there. But with regard to the immediate question before us, my opinion about it was, when it was discussed here before, that a majority of this committee were decidedly in favor of something of that sort in the Constitution, and believing that they would have it, it sceemed to me that the safest way, and the way that would create least opposition, would be to submit it to a separate vote of the people. Therefore, while I doubted very seriously the correctness of the principle of limiting these counties, townships and cities in this matter, a d restricting their power, yet as a majority of this committee seemed to be in favor of doing something, and as they were disposed to put it in the body of the Constitution, and as I believed if that was done it would be fatal to the Constitution, I moved an amendment to section forty-four of the legislative article, submitting that section to the people as a separate and indepen :dent proposition, and believing still that a majority of the committee are in favor of doing something of this kind, I am for :he article as reported containing that nmendment. I shall, therefore, vote against the proposition of the gentleman from Fullton [Mir. Ross] to strike it out. At the same time, sir, if we could, as I said before, agree to strike out everything that the people (lo not desire and that is unnecessary, I should be in favor of it. But until we can agree upon some such gencr al plan, I shall hawe to do 52 olier gert e s y 0 e t t e f e t I e f s I t s I t I 1240 CONSTITUTIONAI, CONVENTION WEDNESDAY, DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. municipality" includes them all, and is therefore manifestly the proper laniguage L to use. Ai Mr. AIMcCOY. Then the proposed al teration does not interfere with the , school district, but leaves it in the prop osition? Mr. HAY. Mr. Chairman: Let me say to the gentleman that at the last ses sion of the Legislature there were various acts of incorporation to railroad com panies, authorizing school districts to sub scribe to them. The question being on the amendment offeredl by Mr. Medill, it was agreed to. Mr. ROSS. Mr. Chairman: I move to insert at the end of the thirteenth line the following words: Except by a majority of the voters of sald co unty, city, town, township, or school dis trict. Mr. McCOY. Mr. Chairman: I ask for the reading of the article as it would stand if the amendment was adopted. The Clerk read the article offered by Mr. Peirce, as it would stand with the amendment offered by Mr. Ross, as follows: ARTICLE -. SECTION -. No county, city, town, townt ship. or other municipality, shall ever become subscriber to the capital stock of any railroad or private corporation, or make any donation to, or loan its credit in aid of, any such corporation, except by a majority of the voters of said county, city, town, township, or school district: Prov?ided, however, That the adoption of this article shall not be construed as affecting the right of any municipality to make such subscriptions, where the same have been authorized under existing laws by a vote of the people of such municipality prior to such adoption. This section shall be submitted to the legal voters of this State in manner following, towit: Separate ballots shall be provided at each place of voting, entitled "for section -," and "against section -;" and if it shall appear that a majority of votes cast are for section -, then the said section shall be a part of the Constitution of this State; but if a majority of the votes cast are against section -, then the said section shall be void and of no effect. The question being on the adoption of the amendment offered by Mr. Ross, a di. vision was ordered. The committee divided, when, there being twelve in the affirmative and seventeen in the negative The CHIAIRMIAN. There is no quorum voting. The amendment is not adopted. Mr. ANDERSON. Mr. Chairman: I move to insert the word "State," before the word "county," in the first line. The CHAIRMAN. The Chair considers that the amendment of the gentleman from Fulton [Mr. Ross] has not been disposed of. It is not adopted, but is pending, for there was no quorum voting. Mr. WASHBURN. Mr. Chairman: Is it absolutely necessary, that in Committee of the Whole, a quorum of the Convention should be present? There is no rule requiring a quorum of the Convention to constitute the Committee of the Whole. iMr. ROSS. Mr. Chairman: I am inclined to think that the rule is that business can proceed without a quorum, until a division is called for. Whenever a division is called for, and there is no quorum, it appears to me that the Chair must take notice of it. Mr. WASHBURN. Mr. Chairman: There is no doubt, I apprehend, that that is the rule both in Convention and in vote of the people of such municipality pr ior to such adoption." I offer this amendment for the reason that I apprehend much embarrassment might arise as to the application of the proposed provision of the Constitution, (if it should be adopted,) growing out of existing contracts and existing rela tions that have been entered into prior to the adoption of this article. Now the practice, so far as I am aware, has been to obtain the votes of counties or cities to aid railroads, and when that has been given the subscriptions are made, and the bonds of the corporation issued when the railroad is completed through the county or city. In some places these subscriptions are never made until the railroad is actually completed to or through the corporation. 'Now, mnany of these railroad corpora. tions have entered into contract upon the faith of obtaining this subscription as soon as a road shall be completed; and the amendment I propose is to give to corporations the right to fulfill these obligations, and thus save embarrassments that might arise out of the adoption of the article unless that provision were inserted. I move that as an amendment to the article. The CHAIRiAN. The Clerk will read the amendment. The Clerk read the amendment offered by Mr. Hay, as follows: Add at the end of line three the following: "_Provided, however, that the adoption of this article shall not be construed as affecting the right of any such municipality to make such subscriptions, where the same have been authorized under existing laws by a vote of the people of such municipality, prior to such adoption." The question being on the amendment offered by Mr. Hay, it was agreed to. Mr. MEDILL. MIr. Chairman: I would move that line first be amended as follows: that in lieu of the words "school district" substitute the words "other municipality," so that it will read "no town, city, township, or other municipality," etc. M1r. McCOY. Mr. Chairman: I wish to inquire of the gentleman from Cook [Mlr. Medill] the reason of the change proposed-dropping school districtmaking a distinction between school and other districts? I can see no reason why the school district should be so distinguished. Mr. MEDILL. Mr. Chairman:. The object is this: By using the expression "other municipalitiy" it connects towns, cities, townships, etc., with municipalities. Wve so recognize them in the law, and in other portions of the newf Constitution. By employing the term "school district'it would be possible to defeat the whole purpose of this section by changing the name of some of these other munwicipalities. The new name, whatever it might be, would not be embraced in the article, and that sort of municipality could go on and vote subscriptions in the face of the prohibition provided in this article. In addition to that, there may be other corporations than school districts that we desire to have included. W~hy use the term "school district" any more than "road district," or'spoor house district," or'(ward' or "'precinct?") There are many other small local municipalities than "school districts, while the term'other 811 I 1 t t i t t t c -APRIL 13, 1870. 1241 Committee of the Whole. I am not po, —itive, but it strikes me that there is no stated number npcessary to constitute a quorum in the Committee of the Whole. The CH&IRNIAN. The decision of the Chair was made under the impression that the practice, so far, ir. the Convention, when it was disclosed that there was not a quorum Voting in the committee, had been to operate against the adoption of the proposition before it and the Chair thinks the parliamentary usage is, that where there is.not a quorum voting nor present in the comniittee, it is proper to move that the committee rise and that there be a call of the house cr Convention. It is some little time since the Chair has noticed carefully the prac. tice observed in c'ommittee, but it is. of the ini ression that we cannot proceed and do business as a Committee of the Whole, when by division it is discovered that no quorum is present. Mr. ROSS. Mr. Chairman: I would suggest to the members who are opposed to this amendment, that they might as well let it go in now, by common consent, and we can strike it out afterwards, when we get a full committee, if a majority so determine. Mr. PEIRCE. Afr. Chairman: I be. lieve, sir, thut it has been the rule heretofore in the Convention, that whenever the fact is developed that there is not a quorum voting, the Chair should count and ascertain if a quorum be present. If it is found that a quorum is present,, then the action of the Convention or Committee upon the question pending is a finality, and if there are more Voting for the proposition than against it, it is considered carried; the act that there is a quorum present at the time of the taking of the TOte, being sufficient to warrant the Chair in announcing the proposition voted upon, as either carried or rejected. Mr. HITCHCOCK. Mr. Chairman: This is a question that I have lately ex There has been a d' amined. ifference of practice among gentlemen occupying the chair. The rule, however, as laid down in all the treatises is, that whenever it appears, by division in the committee or Convention that there is no quorum voting, it be.comes the duty of the Chair to count them house; or it is th.e right of any member, CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION Mr. PEIRCE. Mr. Chairman: I rise to a question of order. I believe that there is a motion pending. The CHAIRMAN. The Chair did not understand that the matter was fully settled until it was ascertained whether there was a quorum present. Mr. McCOY. Mr. Chairman: I have nothing other to say than this: that I hope that this article will be read. It may meet with opposition in the Convention. I do not suppose that this committee desire that we shall report back to the Convention an article, but refuse to have it read before it goes back. I hope we will hear it read, and be satisfied that it will satisfy the members of this committee. ["Read!" "Read!"] The Clerk read the article offered by Mr. Peirce, as amended, as follows: ARTICLE —. SECTION -. No county, city, town, township, or other municipality shall ever become subscriber to the capital stock of any railroad or private corporation, or make any donation to, or loan its credit in aid of, any such corporation: Provided, however, That the adoption of this article shall not be construed as affecting the right of any municipality to make such subscriptions, where the same have been authorized under existing laws by a vote of the people of such municipality, prior to such adoption. This section shall be submitted to the legal voters of the State, in manner following, towit: Separate ballots shall be provided at each place of voting, entitled "for section -," and "against section -;" and if it shall appear that a majority of votes east are for section -, then the said section shall be a part of the Constitution of the State; but if a majority of the votes cast are against section -, then the said section shall be void and of no effect. Mr. PEIRCE. I move that the committee rise, report the article to the Convention, and ask its concurrence therein. The motion was agreed to. LE.AVE OF ABSENCE. Mr. TINCHER. I desire to ask leave of absence for Mr. Lathrop [doorkeeper], who is detained by sickness. Leave was granted inem. con. there is no necessity for taking the vote again, it having been ascertained that there is a quorum presen t, although no quorum may have voted. The CHAIRMAN. The Chair would suggest to the gentleman from Cook [Mlr. Cameron], that it concurs with him as to the position which it supposes he takes, and thinks that the President [Mr. Hitchcock] is undoubtedly right, but we do not know that there was a quorum in the committee at the time, as the Chair neglected to count the members, and the Chair has no right to assume that there was a quorum present. The question then will be upon the proposition of the gentleman from Fulton [Mr. Ross.] A division was ordered. The committee divided, when, there being thirteen in the affirmative and twenty-two in the negative, the amendment was not agreed to. The CHAIRMAN. The question is now upon the adoption of the article as amended. Mr. ROSS. I move the committee rise, report progress, and ask leave to sit tomorrow at ten o'clock. The motion was agreed to. Mr. BENJAMIN. Mr. Chairman: I moveto amend by inserting after the word "any" in the second line, the following words: "railroad or private." A division was ordered. The committee divided, when, there being eighteen in the affirmative and ten in the negative, the amendment was agreed to. The CHAIRMAN. If there are no -further amendments, the question will be upon tfhe adoption of the article. A division was ordered. The committee divided, when, there being twenty-three in the affirmative and thirteen in the negative, the article was agreed to. Mr. ROSS. I would ask a call of the committee to ascertain whether we have a quorum present. The CHAIRMAN. The Chair supposes the proper course would be to have the committee rise. Mr. PEIRCE. Mr. Chairman: I move to amend the motion by making it read That the committee rise, report the article to the Convention, and ask its concurrence therein. Mr. RICE. 5~e cannot do that, Mr. Chairman; there was no quorum voting. Mr. PEIRCE. Mr. Chairman: i believe that the Chair has decided that the article was adopted. The gentleman has a right to appeal, of course. Mir. CAMERON. There is no necessitY to vote upon this, Mr. Chairman. The (Conventioa can amwend it afterwards. Mr. ROSS. Mr. Chairman: W~e ought to have a quorum voting upon so import ant a question as that. The CHAIRMAN. Upon re-counlting the committee, the Chair finds that there is a quorum present. Mr. McCOY. Mr. Chairman. I understood that the article was adopted, so far as the committee was conecrned. I desire to have it read. I do not know what it is, as it stands. The CHAIRMAN. The Chair presumes that after the article has been adopted} it is in the power of the committee to have it read. Mer. McCOY. Mir. Chairman: I move that the article be read. YEAS. ABSENT OR NOT VOTING. Abbott, Emmerson, Peirce, Allen of Alex,Fox, Pillsbury, Allen of Cr'fd., Fuller, Robinson, Anthony, Gamble, Scholfield, Archer, Goodell, Snyder, Atkins, Haines of C'k, Skinner Billings, Haines of L'k, Springer, Bowman, Hanna, Truesdale, Bromwell, Hart, Turner, Brown, Hayes, Underwood, Browning, McDowell, Wait, Bryan, Neece, W heaton Cody, Parker, Wilson, Coolbaugh, Perley, Mr. President-43. Cummings, ADJOURINME NT. Mr. DEMIENT. I move that the Convention do now adjourn until two o'clock P. M. Mr. PARKS. I wish to suggest to the gentleman from Lee [Mr. Dement] that I understand there is a great demonstration to come off this afternoon, and that I further am informed that distinguished gentlemen of both political parties, one of whom has been denominated "the war horse of the democracy" [Mr. Ross] will be present. Mr. DEMENT. I accept the gentleman's amendment, to adjourn to nine o'clock to-morrow morning. Mr. WRIGHT. Will the gentleman indulge me by lmaking another motion before adjournment? I understand there is to be a grand denonstration Mr. PARKS. A grand and magnificent demonstration! Mr. WRIGHT. For the information of the gentleman, I would wish to state that there have been intimations that the hall of the house of representatives will be requested for the use of the "grand and magnificent demonstration," and I would therefore move that it be given to the partics, if the Convention has control. rMr. DEMENT. I withdraw the motion to adjourn for the introduction of the rxsolution. WEDNESDAY, 1242 Mr. WRIGHT. I therefore move that the hall of the house of representatives be given to the parties this evening. Air. PARKS. I hope the motion will prevail. I understand this demonstration is to come off at the rink, and that the gentlemen alluded to will make speeches. It may be for the benefit of the gentlemen of the Convention to attend, for speeches may be made by some who do not represent any party, and on the noparty basis. Mr. ANDERSON. Who are the speakers? Mr. PARKS. I understand that Governor Palmer and the gentleman from Fulton [Mr. Ross] will address thepeople of this city at two o'clock at the rink. [Laughter.] Mr. CARY. Mr. President: I move that the Convention do now adjourn. The yeas and nays were ordered and being taken, resulted-yeas, 29; nays, 13 -as follows: Harwood, Ha.y, Hildr-Lip, Af,bdill Merrilm, Moore, Poage' Rice, Ross, Sed-wick, 11 NA.YS. Sharp, Sherrill, Tubbs, Vandeventer, Wagner, Wall, - Washburn, Whiting, Wright-29. Benjamin, Buxton, Cameron, Cary, Church, Dement, Eldredge, Ellis, Goodhue, Hankins, Anderson, Bayne, Craig, Cross, English, Forman, Kinz, medby, Parks, Sutherland, Tincher, Wells, Wendling-13. So the motion of 31r. Cary that the Convention now adjourn, was agreed to. So the Convention (at twelve o'clock I m.) aclj ourned. A FTERNO ON SESSION. WEDNESDAY, April 13,1870. The Convention met at two o'clock P. and was called to order by the President. PRINTI!G OF REPORT. Alr. PEIRCE. I move that two hundred copies of the section, as amended this mornin - by Committee of the Whole, be pridted. The motion was agreed to. REVENUE. 31r. HAY. Mr. President: If there,is no other business before the Convention, I would move that the Convention go into Committee of the Whole on the revenue report. The motion was agreed to. So the Convention, as in Committee of the Whole (31r. Parks in the chair), proceeded to the consideration of the report of the Committee on Refenue. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS.' which would be a fair estimate for State taxes, it would make the whole amount about three per cent. If that be true, sir, then if the road paid taxes as other property d oes, th e amount it would have to pay into the trea sury, would be over one million of dollars, instead of a bout half that as now. In other words, doe s not the railroad h a ve an ad va ntage under the present mode, over other tax payers? I do not say that that is true, but the figures perhaps may indicate that. I desire gentlemen who are conversant with the affairs of that company, and the State taxation, to express themselves upon this point. I express no opinion upon it my. self but wish that this matter may be canvassed thoroughly. In connection with this, it is proper to consider whether it is politic for us, even if it be wise, to amend that provision of the charter of the Illinois Central Railroad Company. The provision by which they pay five per cent. of their income and now two per cent. taxes, is a provision in their charter. It is in the nature of a contract. Suppose that the people in adopting their Constitution, should have the power, is it wise to do it? I ask gentlemen to speak upon this question. It is true a very large majority of the people do not thoroughly understand the relation the State occupies towards the Illinois Central Railroad Company. If we go away from the line of that railroad, a large majority of the people, ould rise in arms, or with open mouths, if there was a proposition to release that road from its obligation to pay seven per cent. We should further consider whether (if it is true that the State is losing about $750,000 of the taxes upon that railroad which would be obtained by a direct tax upon the property of the company) the time will shortly arrive when the revenues of the railroad company will be augmented very largely by an increase of their business, and the rate of taxation be diminished, so that soon the revenue under the charter will more than equal the diminished amount of taxes. Mr. ROSS, Mr. Chairman: Has the gentleman made a computation of how much State tax we would get from the Illinois Central railroad with their $40,000,000, valuing at one-third of its actual value? Mr. WELLS. I will answer the gentlemlan. It is not proposed to value property hereafter at one-third of its actual value. If at three per cent. the ~mount nowis, I believe, less than their proportion would b)e under the changed ~valuation although perhap not.so mlarked a difference. Now, the difference ks nearly seventy per cent. If we value the profit of the railroad at its full value, nd the property also, the rate of taxation cf course will diminish. Mr. CHURCH. MIr. Chairman. Is the gentleman aware that by its charter that company is now liable to an assess:nent for State purposes of three-fourths )f one per cenlt. upon the entire value of Lts property? M/r. WUELLS. That is in the charter of she Illinois Central railroad company. Mr. CHURCH. If the property is to )e assessed at its real value —forty rail. ion or fiftyy million dollars will the gqmoleman direct his attention to the question second line, to "State," inclusive, in thi line. [Amendment offered by Mr. Bro] well:] Insert in lieu of words stricken out, "thesum of said fund shall be apportioned among the counties through which said road passes in proportion to the length of line of said road included in the limits of said counties respectively." The CHAIRMAN. The question before the committee is upon the motion of the gentleman from DeWitt [AIr. Moore] to SECTION 1. All moneys accruing to th State, by virtue of the charter of the Illinoi Central railroad compa ny, shall be p aid inth the State treasury, and forever constitute o portion of the revenue of the State. And the Ge neral A ssembly shall have no power to re lease or otherwi se discharge said railroad compa n y from the payment thereof: Pro vided, however, that nothing herein container shall be construed as affecting the application of said m oney to the payment of interest be aring State indebted nes s u ntil t he extinc tion there of, as provided ih the charter o said company. SEC. 2. The General Assembly shall pro vide such further revenue as may be needful by levying a tax, by valuation, so that ever) person and corporation shall pay a tax in pro portion to the value of his or her property such valuet e to be ascertained by some perso or persons, to be elected or appointed in such manner as the General Assembly shall direct, and not otherwise; but the General Assembly shall have power to tax peddlers, auction eers, brokers, hawkers, merchants, commis sion merchants, showmen, jugglers, inn keepers, grocery-keepers, toll-brid,es, ferries, insurance, telegraph and express interests or business, venders of patents, and persons using and exercising franchises and privileges, in such manner as it shall, from time to time, direct by general law, uniform as to the class upon which it operates. SEc. 3. The specification of the objects and subjects of taxation shall not deprive the General Assembly of the power to require other subjects or objects to be taxed, in such manner as may be consistent with the prin ciples of taxation fixed in this Constitution. SEc. 4. The property of the State, counties, and other municipal corporations, both real and personal, and such other property as may be necessary for school, religious, cemetery, and charitable purposes, mav be ex. empted from taxation; but such exemption shall be only by general law. SEC. 5. The General Assembly shall provide, in all cases where it may be necessary to sell real estate for the non-payment of taxes or special assessments, for State, county, municipal or other purposes, that a return of such unpaid taxes or assessments shall be made to some general officer of the county having authority to receive State and county taxes; and there shall be no sale of said property for any of said taxes or assessments but by said officer, upon the order or judgment of some court of record; and the General Assembly may, in its discretion, provide that the application for the iudgment shall be made at such uniform time throughout the State, as may be prescribed by law. SEC. 6. The right of redemption from all sales of real estate, for the non-payment of taxes or special assessments of any character whatever, shall exist in favor of owners and persons interested in such real estate, for a period of not less than two years from such sales thereof. And the General Assembly shall provide by law for reasonable notice to be given to the Cowners or parties interested, by,publication,'or otherwise, of the fact of the sale of property for such taxes or assess ments, and when the time of redemption shall expire. SEC. T. The General Assembly shall provide for an equalization throughout the State of the assessmnent of State taxes. SEC. 8. The General Assembly shall have no power to release or discharge any county, city, township, town or district whatever. or the inhabitants thereof, or the property therein, from their proportionate share of taxes to be levied for State purposes, nor shall commutation for such taxes be authorized in any form whatsoever. SEC. 9. All taxes levied for State purposes shall be paid into the State treasury. SEC. 10. All appropriations of the State revenue shall be from the revenue filnd, in general, contained. in the State treasury;* and no appropriation of the tax collected or to be collected from anv locality or district, or any designated property or source of revenue, shall ever be made. [Amendment offered by Mr. Moore.:].' Strike out after the word "treasury,> in f Strike out of section first, after the word "treasury," in the second line, to "State," in - the third line, inclusive. , The gentleman from Coles [Mr. Brom well] moved to- s - Insert in place of the words stricken out, the words, "The - sum of said fund shall be apportioned among the counties through , which said road passes, in proportion to the length of line of said road included in the - limits of said counties respectively." Mr. HAY. Mr. Chairman: My rer collection is, that when this article was before the Committee of the Whole, there was an amendment in the fifth line, after , the word "thereof," as follows: "or from any lien therefor." I will ask whether that amendment was adopted, as shown by the minutes? The CHAIRMAN. There is nothing to show that such was the case. Mr. HAY. Mr. Chairman: As to this amendment, it is a question to which there can be no objection. The commit. tee will recollect that the fund to be pa id to the State, with a lien, is reserved by the State to secure this payment. And whilst we are reserving the right to the fund, it is proper that we should reserve the lien that is expressed in the charter, to secure the payment of the fund. The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman suggests to amend Mr. HAY. I propose, Mr. Chairman, in the fifth line, after the word "thereof," to add the words, "or from any lien therefor." The question being on the amendment offered by Mr. Hay, it was agreed to. Mr. PERLLY. Mr. Chairman: Will the Clerk read the words added? The Clerk read the amendment offered by Mr. Hay, and agreed to, as follows: Insert after the word "thereof," in the fifth line, the words, "or from any lien therefor.' Mr. WELLS. Mr. Chairman: I rise not for the purpose of arguing this question at the present time. but to make one or two suggestions, upon which I ask gentlemen who are conversant with the matter to express their views. The report of the Illinois Central railroad company to the Auditor disclosesp the fact th at the y have paid about a half a million dollars into the treasury, for the; last year. It is believed by gentlemen who know, that they possess over $40,000,000 worth X of property, and I have heard it estimat d 1 uup to $60,000,000. I have heard it estimated a s low as $30,000,000; many have t estimated it as high as $50,000,000 I 1 suppose they have about $40,000,000. X f The State tax this year is thirteen mills.' and higher than usual. For many years i it has been as high as seven, and I suppose five mills has been an average. The t county, town, and township tax, throughout the counties where the road runs, will l amountto two and a half per cent., on the 1 average. Adding to that the five mills t APRIL 13) 1870. 1243 The report of the committee is as follows: REVENUE. 1244 ('1OSTITUTIOAL CONVENiTIO WEDsDAY, is correct, and that it should be adopted; but the question has been raised and discussed without reference to the suggestionas which 1 have made. They have been made to me privately, and I have presented them, and I ask gentlemen to consider them in discussing the article hereafter. Mr. PEIRCE. Mr. Chairman: With reference to the point raised by the gentle t man from Peoria [Mr. Wells], I would like to say one word by way of an estimate of the amount of money the Central railroad would pay for State, county, school and other purposes, provided it were subject to taxation as other railroads are taxed, and were taxed to the same extent. The Chicago and Rock Island railroad runs tarough the county which I represent, and has twenty miles of road within the limits of that county. It pays into the county treasury, per annum, the sum of three thousand five hundred dollars on that twenty miles of road. The State, county, road, bridge and school taxes in mny county are about eight per cent. in the aggregate on the valuation of property, and the sum paid by that company in my county is only three thousand five hundred dollars for those twenty miles of road. Now, if the Illinois Central has eight hundred miles of road, and I believe that is not far from the fact, and it should beg taxed in the manner as other roads are listed and taxed-say at the same rates per mile at which the Rock Island road is listed and taxed-it would pay for its eight hundred miles of road only one hundred and forty thousand dollars to the State and the counties, towns and school districts along the line, while it now pays nearly five hundred thousand dollars annually into the State treasury. The CHAIRMAN. The question is upon the motion of the gentleman from DeWitt [Mr. Moore] to strike out, and the proposition of the gentleman from Coles [Mr. Bromwelll to insert. Mr. BROMWELL. Mr. Chairman: If that is the motion, I would like to say a few words in connection therewith. It was, as members will recollect, debated on the day before adjournment. The question which then divided the commit tee was upon allowing the counties to get the exact figures.participate in the funds derived from the prinet fteei o,Iren Mr. DMENT Mr.Chaiman:WillCentral railroad? nlot at all upon re-usfodeae Ifidosbathtcn the entlman llo me momnt? leasing the Central railroad from their srcin osrk u hsscini o Mr. WELLS. Yes, sir. obligations to pay five per cent. upon their tewyt tanta bet Mr. DMENT I se, Mr Chaiman,gross earnings, and three-fourths per cent. MrBRMEL Itmybth thatthegentema is esious hattheupon their property. Lgsauewudhv htpwr u quesionshold e dscusedupo th The gentlemen who spoke against al- wa shr ogtt edn st b facts~~~~ ~ ~ ~ aste xit n hemrt o h oing the counties along the line a sltl i ht o osrk u h case. ~~~~~~~~share in that sevens per cent. fund, spokesetooripithcliofteCn Now,I wil sgges to he entlmanagainst it upon the ground that that par- ta alod fro Peria[Mr Wels]andthegenle-ticular railroad has been built upon a Btcnie o oettecne manfro Coes Air Brmwel],whehergrant of land which cost those counties qecso evn hti,i h ad it i no th fac tht fve pr cnt.of ll othing, and that it is put upon a differ-ofteLglaue Wete lath tha ispad ito heStae teauryby heent footing from all other roads. It wasfonainoarigebaigsm IllioisCenralrailoadcomanywasanswered to that, that it cost the State tit-ee onis hywl tn requredof hcmin onsdertio ofthenothing, ally more than it did the coun- hr n nt taltms ed og dontio oflan totha copan bytheties, that it was property that had come hn nhn ihaystwowl e Stae; nd heter r nt tereis nlyinto the counties, and that the people u cee,sc scnlpoet,o twopercen. o th seen er ent, to-there paid their increased taxation to the ohretrrsstruhu h ifr sevnth ofal thy py i, n leu f tx-State treasury upon the increase of prop- etprso h tt,adwowl atio. I eliee tht isthe piri anderty along that line. cm oterpeettvso hs meaning of the law. ~ Now, I wish to say fmrther, so far as cute ntera,adsyt hm Mr. ELL. I elive tat o bethethat grant of land was concerned, that it"Iyowilgwihuwewlgowh law.I d no deireto rgu ths qes-was a grant of' alternate sections, even yu e sg ihyuadyuwt tio, bt Ido esie hatgenlemn wllnumbers, the price of the alternate sec-usfrorpoet"Temmesfo disussths qesionwit~tesethngsintions} odd numbers, being raised tothconisothCeairirawol view Myjudmen is hatthi reortdouble by the government, and the peo- b smmesgnrlyae fadt i CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION WEDNESDAY, 1244 of the amount of the State revenue from that? Mr. WELLS. It is eminently proper that that should enter into the computation. Mr. BROMWELL. Has the gentleman compared the am~ount paid inl by the I11linois Central railroad company with that paid by other roads in proportion to their length? Now, I am not informed how this is throughout the State, but from what I do know, I believe that the Central railroad pays double the amlount that we made out to collect from other roads on which wve levy taxes pr~o rata. Mr. WELLS. Air. Chairman: In reply to the gentleman's remarks, I would say that I have not, except in the instance of one or two counties, in other railroads. I believe, however, that the Central railroad is now paying a less amount than other railroads are, in pro. portion to their property; but their property is valued at very much less than its real value. The whole railroad property of this State is valued at about sixteen million dollars. That valuation is hardly one-fifth of the real value of railroad property in1 the State. Now, I am not presenting this as my view. I believe that it is a question of very great- delicacy; but these questions should be considered, and I have made these suggestions for the purpose of provokidg discussion on the part of other gentlem~en present, who are better acquainted with these matters than I am. Mr.- BROMWELL. Mr. Chairman: If the gentleman will allow me, I will slate that the Central railroad cannlot form at geatest, more than one-fourth ill extent of the railroad lines of the State. Now, if the other railroads are paying more than the Central railroad, they would be paying two millions of dollars cash into the treasury. That railroad pays five hundred thousand. If the other railroads are paying more, they are paying four times that amount at least, and prob,ably six times. There o-ught to be then, between two and three millions of dollars paid into the State treasury, whereas, I believe, there is nlot one-third of that amount paid. Mr. WELLS. Their assessment is only about sixteen millions of dollars. I for ple who paid for those odd sections paid to the government of the United States every dollar that the entire amount of lands would have, sold for in the first place, which everybody knows. Then, there was in fact a grant for which the government or the United States charged the people who bought land on that road dollar for dollar. Then, the United States was paid off in full for the donation. Therecupon the Central railroad took possession of the even numbers, and when they came to sell thema, the people again paid for that twice over, for they paid the very highest prices for the railroad lands. Now, wvhenl these things are considered, what is there in the case of that Central railroad to distinguish it fromn any other railroad in the State? Why is it that counties as onl, that line shall find their taxation c'ommuted awav from them, while those who are on the lrine of the Alton and St. Louis railroad, for instance, can levy their taxes uponl that property as well as upon other property? I can conceive of no reason whatever, sir, except that there are more counties off the line of that Central railroad, than there are upon its That being the case, if they now have the control of the commutation fund to be derived from the property on that line, and if they see -fit to say it shall not go in the same proportion, and after the same mode of distribution that the other funds raised throughout the State go, then there is power for doing it in this Convention or anywhere else, but it is simply a question of justice between the whole body of counties, and a portion of them lying along the Central railroad. Mr. RICE. Will the gentlemlan,allow me to ask him a question? Mir. BROMWELL. Certainly I will. Mr. RICE. The question I wish to ask is this: Is it your construction of the first section that there is anything in it that would prohibit the Legislature, after this fund has been paid into the State treasury, fromn making an equitable apportionment to those counties of the fund raised bay this three-fourths of one per cent. tax on the property of the Central railroad company? Is there anything in the article to prevent the Legislature from making that equitable ap prtionment?Ifteeino,Isen DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. e lands granted, and then the two per cent. is not an equivalent for all taxation, but e as a certain payment which shall not - amount to less than two per cent. It is t provided that the railroad shall make re r turns to the State Auditor, and then the r property is to be taxed on this report. 1 The two per cent. is not in lieu of all taxes, but a provision certain, so that the . tax cannot be less and may amount to - much more. f As I understand, sir, the Auditor has been trying to get the Central railroad company to make the return of property required, ever since 1859, but has not yet r succeeded. The road has been content to pay the two per cent. and not make re - turn, and evidently because it is for the ^ company's advantage to pay this, fearing, 1 doubtless, that they will have to pay more - than two per cent. Where does this seven per cent. come [ from? Evidently from the people living -along theroad-who travel on it and f ship by it. There is a vast amount of . property in the counties through which the roads runs. - There are some towns in which, per haps, a majority of the property is owned by this railroad company. In one town r in Lee county, the larger portion of the property is in this situation. My friend 1 from that county can state if I am not 1 right. I allude to Amboy. Mr. DEMENT. I am not prepared to ; state that to be the fact, but it is a very 1 large proportion. , Mr. CARY. Mr. Chairman: There are ? towns in my own county similarly situa- ted, where there is a large amount of property which pays no local taxesi Dunleith, Galena, and Warren, for in stance; and there are a large number of towns throughout the length of the State, -in which the Illinois Central Railroad E company own a very large amount of - property. All other property in those towns is taxed for all the purposes of - government, local and general, but that property is wholly exempt. The people of those towns must tax themselves to build school houses, roads, bridges and every other thing required by a civilized com munity; then, they must pay tariff and fares high enough to compensate for the tax which the Illinois Central Railroad ) company pay into the State treasury. I do not wish to release the railroad company at all; but think it would be a just if a portion of this tax could be paid back to our people who are paying it in.to the State treasury. This, I think, L would be eminently fit and proper. If it were not just, Iwould say nothing, but, looked at in this light, it is what this Con> vention should grant to the counties * through which this road runs. .'The probability is that if this road .should be forced to list its property, it would amount to much mlore than two per cent., bult the difficulty has been to get them to list it. There is no disposition to ;change this rule, because it is not, as gen tlemen suppose, limnited to seven per cent. They are obliged to pay that amount, and as much more as their property, fairly assessed, should pay —like other property *throughout the State. Then, when this is done, those who live and travel upon that road should have their proportion of it paid back to them out of the State treasury; and there should be nothing, in this Co[nstitution, to prevent it from being paid back.w or six and ten per day upon every mile of the line which the pe o p le, along the line, are c harged wi th- why should the c ounties and townships be therebv de barred by solemn act of the government of the State from simply receiving thei sha r e in the commutat ion money fot which th e State ga ve it s own t axes and the taxes of the c o untie s? The gentleman from Vermilion [Mr Tincher] says if we do not l ike our posi tion we ca n move away frome the line op the road, We can announce to him that we do not like it, but do not suppose we shall btove away fro m there. It is a f air claim not to be treated upon this floor as a mere ga me among politicians-butt to be treated a s if we were so many arbi trators fixingr the principle of this comg mutation mon ey which has been and will be received by the State from the prop erty of that r a il road. It is a fair ques tion to d e cide here, and upon w hich I wish that all the gentlemen in this Con ven a tion should express their opinion. It I am wrong, I would not insist upon it If th e people ae wrong, they will not insist upon it. I do not suppose our peo ple are going to burst up the Constitu tion u pon tha t q uestion, but we ask a f ai r and carefwl co nsideratio n o f the equity of thi s claim. If to-day the State of Illinois should make a commutation to thie Chicago and Alton railroad, does not every man see that a portion o f that fund so arising would come to both the c ount i es an d townships? As na principle of equity, w hy d oes it not follow in the o ther case? We have the whole subject under our con trol, and let u s dispose of it. I am for binding that Central railroad to th is seven per cent. I think more money is obtained, all th ings consid ered than by a process of assessment and tax ation. Th e as s essment and taxation upon other roads does not co me to one f o urth of seven per cent. o f t he ir gross earnings. This su m is a fixed amount a b sol u tel y fixed, and to be ascertained fro m pr oofs tha t canno t be controverted or garbled. That i s th e r eason the people should insist so strongly that the road should not be r elease d from the payment of seven per cent. But, sir, I think t he p eople out of whose pockets the mon ey com es ough t to havee a sohare in the taxes, which, if they had not been given away by the State they would be entitled to, if collected in the ordinary way. Why, sir, suppose the Stat e should release th e roa d from its cntract, would not the county of Coles, and t he c oun ties of Dou glas and DeWi tt come in and tax the C en tral road? Yes, sir, and to the exte nt o f the proportion of property belonging to the road in such county. If the State were to r elease this claim and Sie up the commutation money-wfor such it is-uit is manifest in that c as e the taxe s wo uld accrue immediate ly, to the localities, and to the State, and hence it is manifest that the commutation money should accrue in s ome man ner. Nio propo siti on call be plainer. [Here the hammer fell].~ MIr. CARY. Mr. Chairman:; If the members of this committee, would look at the matter as it really is, it seems to me that the proposition of the gentleman from Coles [Mr. iBromwell] would seem to be a just and fair one. ~The five per cent. spoken of was for refuse, and go home and tell their peo ple that they had lost an opportunity of securing a fund direct to the county treasury. It would be a ring from one year's end to the other;for what the Legislature does to-day, next year they would be called on to repeal, and what the Legislature repeals to-day they would be called upon to re-enact at the next session. I believe, the demoralization it would produce, the injury to the public legisla tion, the immense squandering of funds throughout the State upon such local en terprises, the rings formed which this would give the foundation for, would be absolutely worse than what I conceive to be the injustice we complain of here. Mr. RICE. If you do not desire the Legislature to have the power to make the apportionment, then what do you desire by this amendment? Mr. BROMWELL, I do not desire the Legislature shall have the power to grant the apportionment. They may make it, for that is almost a mere ministerial oper. ation, to figure it out and distribute it. There can be no ring formed on anything of that sort. I do not want the Legisla ture to be so situated that a very large minority of counties, who will need help, shall have a common and continuous claim to press, upon which rings will fas ten, and which will be a permanent thing in the Legislature. The Convention should take the respon sibility of doing what it supposes to be just. If it appears that it is unjust to allow these counties to tax or to receive from this commutation of tax, their equi table share in the proceeds of the Central Railroad property, then let the Conven tion say so; but if it appears to the Con, vention that there is no difference, really, between that and other railroads, and that the State has commuted away its own taxes, and the taxes of the counties and townships, let the Convention say what share of that commutation fund the counties and townships shall have. Whether it be small or great, I am content with it. I urge that principle on this Convention as the equitable and just view of the case. The grant of lands cannot stand in the way of this view. The grant of lands has been paid for by the citizens of Illinois, resident along the line of that railroad. They have also paid enormous prices for the lands purchased from the railroad, and consequently have done precisely what is done ill all other cases. The money of the community is gone toward the construction of the work. Besides that} sir, the railroad company, as I stated before, by its exactions upon the local traffic,e takes from the pockets of the people upon that line, a sum sufficient to pay the seven per cent., and much more, as I verily believe. Now, if our people pay their taxes into the State treasury for the benefit of all these other counties, upon the increased value of our lands, houses- and town lots, if we have to pay indirectly for the grant which Congress gave to initiate this work, and at the same time the road comes on with these exactions which are incident to all other railroads, and we, the people upon the line, support the traffic of that road to the extent ouf three-fourths of all the material furnished for the transportation, and a large share of the travel —furnish the loads of immense freight trains, fimv 81 APRIL 13, 1870. 12,5 1246 COTITUTIOAL COYETiON WEDSDAY, same time some of the contrivances of the State Legislature therein, by which it secured to the State treasury a large and perpetual revenue, virtually at the expense of the counties on the lines of said railroad and its branches. The said charter provides, in substance, that the Illinois Central railroad company, on its part, should construct said railroad and its branches, furnish the rolling stock, etc., and put it into good condition and running order; and, furthermore, that it should pay into the State treasury, semi-annually, five per cent. of its gross earnings; and, also, in lieu of State taxes, either three-fourths of one per cent. of the valuation of its corporate property, or else two per cent. of the said gross earnings, making in all about seven per cent. of the said earn. ings, to be paid by the said company, semi-annually, into the State treasury. And in consideration therefor, on the part of the State, the said charter provides: first, that all the property in said railroad and branches, when constructed, including bed, rolling stock, and all else pertaining to it, should be the property of the said company, to be held and controlled by it forever. Second-That all those government lands granted to the State, in trust, to aid in the construction of said railroad and branches, comprising several millions of acres, and worth several times as many millions of dollars, even as government lands, exempt from taxation until they could be sold at government prices, should be the property of the said company, in fee simple. Third-That the said company should have the extraordinary privilege of putting upon the said lands any price it might please to put upon them-of holding them for rise in value, etc., as long as it might please to hold them, and of paying no county taxes on them as long as it might please to pay no such taxes on them, which, of course, would be for ever, or until they should be sold. This extraordinary privilege, no doubt, was intended to be, as it has been, of immense value to the said company, inasmuch as the lands would be worth several times as much with this privilege, as they would be without it, or as lands to be sold within a limited time, or as government lands exempt from taxation only so long as they could not be sold at govern ment prices; and at the same time this extraordinary privilege, no doubt, was intended to be, as it has been, of much greater damage to the counties in which they lie, than benefit to the company-b not only in the way of making the balance of property in these counties pay all the taxes necessary to the organization of society, the support of public institutions and the general advancement of a new country, but also in the way of hindering the settlement, improvement and productiveness of these very lands, and the general welfare of society where they are situated. This extraordinary privilege thus granted to the Illinois Central railroad company in this charter, I regard as one of the contrivances of the State Legislature whereby these counties were to be made, as they have been, to virtually pay a large annual tribute to the said company, in order to enable the company to pay a large and perpetual revenue into the vState treasury. Prohibit releasing the railroad company, but do not prevent the counties receiving such portion of this revenue as the majority of the people of this State, on due deliberation, may deem just. Mr. HARWOOD. Mr. Chairman: I will mention some of the circumstances that existed in 1851, under which the Illinois Central Railroad charter was enacted-some of its unjust provisions, showing at the same time some of the contriv:ances of the State Legislature in this charter, by which it secured to the State treasury a large and perpetu dl revenue, virtually at the expense of the counties on the lines of the Illinois Central railroad and its branches. In 1850 the people residing in those portions of the State near the lake and the Illinois, Mississippi, Ohio and Wabash rivers, were regarded as being in a very favorable condition on account of enjoying, by means of these navigable waters, what were then considered very valuable facilities for transporting their produce to market-while the people residing in the interior portions of the State, at a distance from these navig Lble waters, were considered as being in a very unfavorable, and perhaps I may say, suffering condition, on account of having no sufficient means whatever of getting their produce to any good market. Consequently the general government was applied to for assistance to construct a railroad whereby the people in the interior or central portions of the State, thus so unfavorably situated, might receive relief and benefit in this regard. Accordingly, the general government, in generous response to such application, made a magnificent grant of government lands to the State of Illinois, with the express provision in the grant that they should be applied To aid in the construction of a railroad from the southern terminus of the Illinois and Michigan canal, to a point at or near the junction of the Ohio and Mississippi rivers, with a branch of the same to Chicago, and another via Galena, in said State, to Dubuque, in the State of IowaJ and to no other purpose whatever. The express language used in the grant is: And be it further enacted, that there be and is hereby granted to the State of Illinois, for the purpose of aiding in making the railroad and branches aforesaid, etc. Again: That the lands hereby granted be applied in the construction of said road and branches, * * and shall be applied to no other purpose whatever. And again:~ That the lands hereby granted to the State shall be subject to the disposal of the Legislature thereof, for the purpose aforesaid, and no other. Thus, this magnificent grant of gover~nment lands was made to the State of Illinois, subject to the disposal of the Legislature thereof, with the provision three times clearly expressed in'the grant, that it should be applied -"to aid in the construction of said railroad and branches, and to no other purpose whatever.t It was under this grant of the general government to the State of Illinois, and under the provisions and circumstances conneeted with it, that this Illinois Central railroad charter was enacted by the Legislature of 1851. I will now mention some of the provisions of this charter,shpowing at the CONSTITUTIONAL COiNVENT'iON WEDNF,SDAY, 1246 Fourth-that the said company should have the extraordinary privilege of payiing no county or municipal taxes forever, on all its corporate property, including railroad, rolling stock, round houses, !iaachine shops, etc., etc., amounting tomillions upon millions of dollars, lyll, and being in the counties on the line, o the said road and branches. This extraordinary privilege, no doubt, like the other, was intended to'be, as it_has proved to be, of immense valu to the said company and at the same time of immense damage to the said counties, in the way of causing the other property within their limits to pay all the county and munincipal taxes, and permitting this prop. erty, vast in amount, to be enhanced in value and benefited more than any other, by the general improvements and advantages for which such taxes are generally required to be paid, and yet pay no taxes. This extraordinary privilege, thus granted to the Illinois Central railroad company, in this charter, I regard as another of the contrivances of the State Legislature whereby these counties on the lines of the said road and branches were to be made, as they have been, to pay a large and perpetual tribute to the company, in order to better enable it to pay a large and perpetual revenue into the State treasury. Fifth.-That the said company should have the extraordinary privilege, or as it is called in the charter, 11 power to establish such rates of toll for the conveyance of persons and property upon the same (the said road) as they (its directors) shall from time to time, by their by-laws direct and determine, and to collect the same for the use of the said coi-npaDy," this power to be without limit, defiant of the Legislature, and even of this Convention, and to exist forever. This extraordinary privilege and power to charge the most exorbitant and extortionate prices for the conveyance of persons and all kinds of property-a power it has never been slack to exercise to the fullest extent practicable-was, no doubt, like the preceding ones, intended to be, as it so far has been-of immense value to said company, being eqnal not only to seven, but to more than seven times seven per cent. of its'gross carinijigs-and just in proportion to its value to the company, t e an ha be. This extraordinary privilege and power thus granted in the charter to the said company is still another of the contriva-nces of the Statv, Legislature, whereby these counties on the line of the Illinois Central Railroad were to be made to pay a large and perpetual tribute to the said compaiay, in order to better enable it to pay a large and perpetual revenue to the State treasury, a revenue which has heretofore been applied to the payment of State indebtedness, and is now proposed in this report of the Committee on Revenue'Lo be made forever a portion of the revenue of the State. Alr. Chairman: This large and perpetual State revenue we all know exists, and we all know it could not exist without having,'in some way or other, been paid for by the State, and I ipw desire to ask APRIL 13,1870. DEBATES AD PROCEEDINGS. 1247 r I am opposed to indorsing any such g robbery on the part of the State as is contemplated in this section in the re,- port of the Committee on Revenue. The l State has never paid at her own expense f any consideration for the five per cent. of e the said gross earnings, and therefore she is not entitled to it. But the State has l made the counties on the lines of the said , railroad virtually to pay in the way I - have shown, most dearly for it, and there. l fore they, instead of the State, are justly 3 entitled to it. I am not willing to vote for this or any other provision that will prevent the State Legislature from being able hereafter to give it to them, or rather restore it to them, as I trust they will do some time, , if not prevented by some such provision ; as this being inserted in the Constitution. [Here the hammer fell.] L Mr. MOORE. I would ask that the gentleman be allowed to proceed. Mr. HARWOOD. I thank you. I have not much further to say. Mr. TINCHER. Mr. Chairman: In a few remarks I made before the adjourn ment, I may have been, and I think I was, a little unfortunate in the use of some language in relation to the question un der discussion. I perhaps made use of remarks, in a jesting way, for it was only a jest, which have been seized hold of by others to my detriment. My colleague from Coles [Mr. Brom well] has alluded to my suggestion and question, that if the people there do not like the propositions-why do they not move out of the way? I simply said so in jest, and I thought it would be so un derstood by every gentleman on this com mittee, as I do'not suppose that anybody wants to move from the railroad, for it is their right to stay there and enjoy its benefits. I simply want to state that I never have, and I do not propose to do an injustice, by any vote I give to any portion of the State, and especially to any portion of my district. My friend from Coles [Mr. Bromwell], together with my friend from Edgar [Mr. Sutherland], and myself; represent to gether four counties. We are very pecu liarly situated. Coles and Douglas coun ties are affected by the Central railroad Edgar and Vermilion are not affected. While I shall advocate putting the section into the Constitution, that is here reported by the Revenue Committee, I do not conceive I am doing an injustice to any county i am seeking to represent. There is no provision in that report that would prevent the Legislature from paying back to any of the counties through which this road may run. There is no prohibition. N~either has there been in the old Constit,ution under which we have lived.: I am for putting into the new;Constitution that that seven per cent. of the Illinois Central road shall forever constitute a fund, to go into the treasuryr of the State of Illinois. I plant myself squarely on that issue; and I care not how much sophistry may be indulged in, by gentlemen who may be either affected by it or seek to make political capital oult of it. I am not here to deal in sophistry or claptraps. I arm here to represent the people' who sent me, and I shall represent-them faithfully, in my- judgment, and to their best interests. I am simply here to adrocate inserting in the Constitution this provisionsthat the Central Railroad shall r fill his own pocket, by making the poo e sufferers pay two prices for everythinE they got. e So the State applied those lands, grant s ed in trust to the building of the said g, railroad and branches, for the relief of the people unfavorably situated in the central parts of the State, in regard to ? getting their produce to market; but, in doing it contrived to fill her own pocket, , the State treasury, by making the sufferfers in these counties on the lines of said - road and branches, virtually, pay more , than two prices for all they ever got, and - to pay it in the way of those extraordit nary privileges which I have pointed out, s that were given to the said company at the expense of the said counties. In the former case all the people in the whole country who knew about it were B indig.aant. No one argued, because the suffering emigrants were relieved, and their condition, on the whole, made bet ter, that therefore they had no reason to complain. But everybody said they were swindled, robbed, and were justly enti tled to a full restitution from the nice gentleman of all that he had pocketed so unfairly and unjustly at their expense. And nobody argued that because that said nice gentleman had applied the grant to their relief, and thereby made their condition, on the whole, better, his conduct was commendable; but, on the contrary, everybody said that he was a swindler, a robber, and that he ought to make a full restitution of all that he had pocketed thus wrongfully. Thus every body reasoned and thought, and felt in regard to this case of the nice gentle man. So, in regard to this case of the nice State of Illinois, I think everybody ought to reason, think and feel. No one ought to reason or argue, because the people in those counties on the lines of the said railroad and branches, have, by means of said road, been relieved so as to get their produce to market, and, thereby, had their condition made, on the whole, somewhat better, they therefore, have no right to complain, but everybody ought to say and to feel, because of these extraordinary powers and privileges having been given to the said company, at the expense of these counties, for the purpose of State revenue, that they have been most unfivesevnth of he eveue wichshejustly robbed, and that full restitutionsetoinoteCnttto,taishr has eve pai fo, bu topay t oer,should be made by the State, for all shereotdbthReeuComte,Id semiannall tothee contis tat avehas so unfairly and unjustly —virtually —ntcnev mdon nijsiet paid forit mostdearly.taken from them. No one ought to ar-anconyIa sekn torpeet Thecas, sr, emids c o a eryguc, that because the State did applyThrisnprvsointareotta simlaronetha issad t hae ocuredthose government lands to the construe-wolprvnthLeiltrfrmpy in tis ounry fe yers go.A crn-tion of the said road and branches, and m akt n ftecute hog pany f emgrans whie onthei waythereby benefit these counties, therefore,wihti odmyrn hr sn fromtheoldr Sate, toCalforia,be-her conduct in doing it, so as to secure a poiiin ete a hr eni cam wethe bond r sow oun, utillarge revenue to herself at their x-texodCnttto.ndrwihw av ther poviion beam nerlyexhustd,pense, was right and commendable; but, lvd and hemslve als. Thy mnage inon the contrary, everybody ought to say Iamfrptigitthnw'osiu someway,howeer, o sed wod tothethat all she thus contrived to gain to her- to htta ee e et ftehm nearst sttlment whch ws a a geatself, at the expense of these counties, wasoiCetarodsalfrvrcnttta disanc, fr asisanc. Te god eo-robbery, and that she ought, to make to fn,t oit h rauyo h tt pie f th setlemnt romply espodedthem full restitution —that is, restore toofIlni. Ipatmslsqaeyo to hei cll,gaterd u a are qanttythem the full five per cent. of the gro~ss htise n aenthwmc of poviions an mad a rantof hemearnings of the Illinois Central railroad spitymyb nugdi,b ete to nie gntlman asit as houht,company, which she secured to be paidmewhmabeeteafetdbito withtheexprss roviionin te gantinto the State treasury, virtually at theirsektmaepltclcptlotoit thathe houd tke hemto he mi-expense. The nice gentleman'managedamnthrtodainspityoclp grans tat ereso nfavraby stuaed,to fill his pocket at the expense of oth-trp.Iaheetrersnthpele and ppl thm t thir rlie, ad t noers, and the State did the same thing, inwhsetm,adIsalrpeette othe purosewhatver. Accrdinly,principle. I think they both acted un- fihul,i yjdmn,adt hi the icegenlemn tok te poviion tojustly, and should restore all their ill-betitrss Iamsmlheetado thesuferrs nd ppiedthe t thirgotten gains to those from whom theycaeisrigithCosiuinh po relef;but indoig s hemangedtowere wrongfully taken. vso-htteCnrlRira hl t s r t t t r s t a t t r APRIL 13, 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1247 in what way has the State ever paid fo: it? It all comes immediately from the Illinois Central railroad company, an~ certainly that company never would hav~ consented to pay seven per cent. of it: gross earnings into the State treasury without some appreciable consideratioI therefor. I ask, therefore, in what wa did the State ever pay that consideration It is true that two per cent. of those earnings were to be in lieu of State taxes and I am willing to admit, for the sake oi the argument, that the State is justly en titled to this portion of the said revenue although, in fact, because the Constitu tion requires all property, of both per sons and corporations, to be taxed in pro portion to value, I think the State had no constitutional right to make any such ar rangement. But in what way did the State ever pay to the said company, any consideration for the other five per cent. of said earn ings? Did she pay for them with those government lands granted to the State, and by it conveyed to the company? Certainly not. For those lands, by the express provision of the grant, as I have shown, were to be applied to the construction of said road and branches, "and to no other purpose whatever." But the State has never conveyed anything else of value to the said company, except those vastly valuable privileges and powers which, as I have shown, were given to it by the State, at no expense of the State, as such, whatever, but altogether at the expense of the counties on the lines of the said road and branches. The inevitable conclusion, therefore, is that the only consideration that could have been paid, or that ever was paid by the State to the said company, for the five per cent. of these earnings, was at no expense of the State, but altogether at the expense of these counties. And this being the case, it is equally true that it is not the State, but that it is those counties that are justly entitled to the five per cent. of these gross earnings, or five sevenths of this large and perpetual revenue, paid semi-annually into the State treasury. The State has no right to hold what she never paid for, and those counties have a right to receive what they have paid for. It is the duty of the State not to hold the five-sevenths of the revenue which she has never paid for, but to pay it over, semi-annually to these counties that have paid for it most dearly. The case, sir, reminds mne of a very similar one that is said to have occurred in this country a few years ago. A company of em~igrants while on their way from the older States, to California, became weather bound or snow bound, until their provisions became nearly exhausted, and themselves also. They managed in some way, however, to send word to the nearest settlement, which was at a great distance, for assistance. The good people of the settlement promptly responded to their call, gathered up a large quantity of provisions, and made a grant of themn to a nice gentleman, as it was thought, with the express provision in the grant that he should take them to the emigranlts that were so unfavorably situated, and apply them to their relief, and to no other purpose whatever. Accordingly, the nice gentleman took the provisions to the sufferers an~d applied them to their relief; blut, in doing so he managed to 124 COSI TOA OY-INWDEDY pay that seven per cent. into the State treasury, and that the Legislature sha ll have no power to releas e it from such payment. I believe the people of Edgar, Coles, Douglas and Vermilion would, if they were here en masse, vote for inserting that identical provision into the Constitution. We do not want to leave the question open, that the Legislature may be tampered with. Yet I would not vote to say that the Legislature should have no right to redress wrongs of this kind, if wrongs exist. I do not conceive that there is any sin gle item in this report that would prevent the Legislature from making reasonable appropriations to those counties through which the road runs. If this revenue arising from this railroad were all the revenue the State had, it would then not be prohibited because the revenues of the State are under the control of the Legislature, and they may appropriate the funds of the State for whatever they may choose, when there is no direct prohibition in the Constitution —and I guess a great many cases where there is mere prohibition. I hope it will not be so any more. I would like to ask my friends along the line of that railroad if they are in favor of the provision never to release the Central Railroad from this seven per cent. tax? I should like to inquire if there are not gentlemen here in favor of releasing that railroad? I have no doubt there is an under current in some portions of the State to release the Central Road, but I tell gentlemen that if they place it in this Constitution it will kill it. The people would repudiate it en masse. If released, I have no doubt that the railroad company would make a vast amount Of money. I have no doubt it could make money enough to pay the Legislature a million dollars to get clear of it. Now, I want it distinctly understood, here and elsewhere, that I am for inserting in this Constitution a; provision that no act of the Legislature shall ever release that company of any part or parcel of the seven per cent. due the State by the contract contained in their charter. Mr. BROMWELL. Mr. Chairman: Was the gentleman not present just now when the gentleman from Sangamon [Mr. Hay] moved to have it inserted-that the road should not be released? Mr. TIlfCHER. Mr. Chairman: Is there anything to prevent? Mr. BROMWELL. Mr. Chairman:* I will ask if the gentleman is willing to leave this matter in the hands of the Legislature as a foundation for rings for all time? Mr. TIINCHER. Mr. Chairmlan: If not to the Legislature, where is the gentleman going to leave it? If he cannot insert it in the Constitution, and carry the Constitution, then where is he going but to the Legislature? Mgr. BROMWELL. Mr. Chairman: The amendment offered expressly provides that the counties should have a share. Mr. TINCHtER. And what is there, Mr. Chairman, to prevent the Legislature from doing that without any provision here? Mgr. BROMWELL. Mr. Chairman: It would be a foundation for corruption. Mr. TIINCIIER. Mr. Chairman. N~o broader than under the proposition offered by the- gentleman frond Coles [Hr. Bromwell]. This, sir, is the broadest thing of the kind since the death of the canal measure. I did not intend making a speech when I got up, but have been compelled to make these remarks to more fully explain my position. I yield to my friend from Montgomery [Mr. Rice]. Mr. RICE. Mr. Chairman: The gen tleman from Vermilion [Mr. Tincher] says he did not intend to make a speech, but he has done so. That there may be no misunderstanding what the question is-will the Clerk read the amendments proposed? The Clerk read the amendments offered by Mr. Moore and Mr. Bromwell, as fol lows: [Amendmnent offered by Mr. Moore.] Strike out after the word "treasury" in second line to "State," inclusive, in third line. [tAmendment offered by Mr. Brom well.] Insert in lieu of words stricken out: "The sum of said fund shall be apportioned among the counties through which said road passes, in proportion to the length of line of said road, included in the limits of said counties respectively." Mr. RICE. Mr. Chairman: I would ask to have the whole read together as it would read if the amendments were adopted. The Clerk read section one, as proposed to be amended, as follows: SECTION 1. All moneys accruing to the State, by virtue of the charter of the Illinois Central railroad company, shall be paid into the State treasury. The-sum of said fund shall be apportioned among the counties through which said road passes, in proportion to the length of line of said road included in the limits of said counties, respectively. And the General Assembly shall have no power to release or otherwise discharge said railroad company from the payment thereof: Provi. ded, however, that nothing herein contained shall be construed as affecting the application of said money to the payment of interestbearing State indebtedness, until the extinction thereof, as provided in the charter of said company. Mr. RICE. Mr. Chairman: I think that some of the objections to this report-not however, that of the gentleman from Coles [Mr. Bromwell], whose objection I will notice afterward-require some attention. There may be some misapprehension as to the precise state of the question, growing out of the relation of the State to the Illinois Central railroad company by virtue of its charter. It is not true that the nature of that obligation is that seven per cent. shall be paid to the State by that company in lieu of all taxes. It is, first, that five per cent. of the gross earnings of the road shall be paid to the State, in consideration of the grant of those lands, and three-fourths of one per cent. on the assessed value of the company's property in addition thereto. If threefourths of one per cent. upon its valuation, added to the five per cent., is less than seven per cent., the legal obligation of this company is to make it equal to seven per cent.-that is, to Day the deficiency. If, however, there is an increased valuation of the property, or if it is not now valued at its true value, it should be revalued; and if the three-fourths of one per cent. upon its increased valuation, added to the five per cent. of the gross earnings of the road, should exceed seven per cent., or even reach ten per cent., the State is entitled to it. In other words, we never can get less than seven; we may get mo re, as the value of their property increases. I call attention to thi s state of facts for the sati sfaction of the gen t le man f r om Peoria [Mr. Wells], that upon no valua tion of the property of this road that has ever been established and sustained, has it ever exceeded seven per cent. They are bound to pay that much, no matter what the deficiency is. It has never been valued so high as to exceed it. It is a matter of notoriety here, at least, that there has really been no valuation of the property of this company for ten or eleven vears. The question was brought before the supreme court, and it was de cided, after a full hearing, that the valu tion fixed by the company itself, was at that time adequate and sufficient, and it did not exceed seven per cent. It is notorious that the Auditor has been trying unsuccessfully for six or eight months to get another valuation of the property of this company. So far, I believe, he has failed to get any new re turns, so that three-fourths of one per cent. is now being paid upon a valuation made ten years ago, or longer. Mr. DEMENT. Do I understand the gentleman from Montgomery [Mr. Rice] to assume tha)t the Illinois Central rail road is to pay in lieu of the two Per cent. three-fourths of one per cent. tax upon any valuation, past or in the future? I understand how the Illinois Central railroad is paying seven per cent. on its gross earnings without reference to any valuation., Is not that the real fact? I only inquire for information. Mr. RICE. Mr. Chairman: I was un dertaking to state the legal obligation growing out of the relations of the State to the railroad company. The truth is that their obligation is to make it equal to seven per cent. They are paying the difference between five per cent. and seven per cent., that is, two per cent., in lieu of the three-fourths of one per cent. as a matter of fact, because the valuation has never got beyond a figure which, at three-fourths of one per cent., would require them to pay more. Unless it exceeds that amount, they are not obliged to pay more. At no valuation ever yet obtained does it reach that figure. Consequently, they are paying two per cent. and five per cent. I understand that to be the fact. Mr. CHURCH. Mr. Chairman: With the permission of the gentleman, I would like to inquire if he knows of any assessment having been made since 1859, to ascertain the fact. Mr. RICE. My information is —I do not profess to know, personally, but I believe that my sources of information are reliable —that that is the last assessment that has been made, and that the effort that has been made during the past six months to get another assessment, has proved unsuccessful; but I repeat, again, that if upon another assessment the three fourths of one per cent. upon the valuation should be mnore than two per cent., they would have to pay it instead of two per cent. As long as the margin is not greater than two per cent., it is a matter of no consequence what the valuation is; they are bound to pay it, anyhow. But it is the opinion of the Auditor of State probably, and I judge so from the course he has taken, that upon at fair valuation t t t I f f t 8 t e f t e I 8 f t t e CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION WEDNF,SDAY7 1248 DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. e road for the special benefit of those lo.- calities, along the two sides of the State. e It was built. They received all the n special benefits of it, and where would it have been the case now, supposing the y State had built as was contemplated by d the grant of land?Y lS Would they have set up any differ ent claim, from what they can now? n Is the fact an,y different now from what f it would have been then? In principle 3-there is no difference. It was built by e property donated to the State for that e purpose, as the Illinois and Michigan canal was built by the pro perty donated nfor that purpose, and I can see no differ1ence in principle in relation to the taxa tion of counties along the line of the rail: i,road, and along the line of the canal. t Would the counties along the line of .thaft canal coime up and ask to tax the canal'? Is there any difference? So far ,the earnings have been allowed to go for the benefit of that line of canal, and no claim has been set up by other portions of the State, not because they had no claim upon it, but simply because these eportions of the State helpedl them mag nanimously. N-ow, this is a State fund. It is a por tion of the State revenue, and should re main so0 forever. Perhaps, I should not be willing to go as far as the gentleman from Vermilion [Mr. Tiincherl in saying that he is willing appropriations and do:nrationls should be made for these coun ties. I am Tot willing thev should be ,made, by'reason of this revenue having been derived fromt railroads runnaing ;through them; but as sister counties, en;titled to the same consideration as other counties, neither msore nor less; of course I make no objections to -the liberal ap,propriatit~ns these counties have rec~eived. 1 do not suppose they received it by rea sont of the railroad fund; balt I would as,k you to look to the Chicago branch arid G~rand Trunak, and call your attention to the appropriations made during one session~, and see how they will compare with the o~ther portions of the State. In Aiiiiza, in Union county, for an Insaiie Asylum, onle hundred and twenty-five thoulsand dollars have been appropriat(,d; in Carbondale, Jackson county, fo;r a sim ilar institultionl, oite hundred thousand d,Illars have been doiaated,add sixty thousaiad dollars for an Agricultural Colleg nThe people have looked forward to som in dim Cutu re when there would be in fla weences enough brought to bear upon th t General Assembly to put this fund i: inhazard. They have therefore hoped tha onthere might be a nail driven here,wherebd rings migh-t be prevented, and this finr ty would be secured to the State forever, a ty contemplated and fixed by the charter. is I confess,sir, that I have not been i] l- the habit of regarding this question as o 1 iso great vitality. I have not been accus is tomed to believe that there could ever be at so much influence arrayed against the is provisions made in the charter for secur mt, ig the revenue, as I have often seen t, here. And when the question was raised ft previous to the adjournment, and a few remarks were made by myself and others St I supposed that perhaps the amendmene h of the gentleman from DeWitt [Mr. - Moore] would not be insisted upon, but: m, find n(w that it is being insisted upon e and that, too, by a species of what I re y gard (and I say it with all due respect t the members representing those counties, a and to the people inhabiting those coun e, ties) as sophistry that I cannot see the 1 force of. - Now, sir, to go right down to the foun dations, it is not true that those counties t are suffering, It is not true that there is 3 a burden upon them; it is not true that c there is a discrimination against them. - On the contrary, I say that every advani tage growing out of the building of that - Central railroad, is in favor of those coun ties. They have been specially favored to ; this day; and, sir, if there was any cause l of complaint on the part of the counties u of this State, it would be such c. unties as Vermilion, and McHenry, and other coun ties that have had to build their own railroads without land; and also such as Wayne, and others, that have never had railroads, or have them by virtue only of b excessive burdens imposed upon their people. I say that if there is any special favor that should be asked, it should be w by such counties as those which might reason bly ask to have that fund set apart as a special fund for the purpose of build ing rzilr4Lads, in order to put them upon a level with other c unties that have been eeijoying the benefit of this Central rail road, which has been built without any expense or burden to the people what and for ver co sti ute a art of he Mr. T INCHER. W e have two rail- at ha p i n In ( n se s o th e reve ue f t e S ate- hat the Gen ral roads now, a nid another coming; but we h n r d t o s n (las w r o a e Asse bly hal hav no owe eve to have had to pay for t hem. f~ u l i g n a s' g e r a. W r dis har o t is omp ny rom the pay ent Mr. C H UR C H1I I hope the gentleman de i i g a r v n e f o th l li ds C n the eof or to isc arg an li n t e S ate from Vernsillio n [Mr. Tincher] will e ij( iy t a o d i t h t t r a y h t a d has upon this property. good railroads fo~rever, for he deserves it, an asit in t e m t e. I va i u Talk bout "rin s" f rmed upon this for his earnestness i n behalf of the rights ot e pl c s a o g t e l n s o th s r a subj ct! I k o w hat uch rin s e ist of the w h o l e people. n o e h s b e p r p i t d f r o j c s and erp tra e gr at bus s; b t i we I suppose that when the grant of land al o h c e e p o~ r a d r g t lea e t is an pen qu sti )a o utu e l g- was made -it was before the old se~nti- M. B N A I. T e S a e h u e islaion wh the ths r ad s t be re- ment inl favor of internal improvements Mr C U CH It i a li l re i ft lea ed nd ome oth r che e s bst tut d, by States had died out -it was co n~tem t e-t p e o h ta e w e h y s e t i the rilg t e g ntl man fro Co es Mr. plated that the State of ll~inois would he y de t a d b r e co i g o fo Brom eli ta ks bou, w ll omp re s a build that road as a State work, and own th bu l i g o th s S a e h u e to k o pigm to a g ant wit the rin s t at ill it as State property. It was co nlt emplated t a o t ~ f i a e n s c r d t clus er a ound the subj ct h reaf er. that that la nd would bie used as the land t e S a e b h s f n, w t o t a b r e [Here the hamer fe~ I].was used fOr the building of the Illinois ontepolofteSae Mr. CH RCH. M. Chai man: I and Michigan canalla; but the confidence Bu I re i d t e g n l m n o se e a sup- ose it s t ese ring th t h ve een of the people in internal improvement by d n t o s n a e a s o h s o n c t n ~)ri ed nd ear d, hat aus th pe ple the State fled-the scheme proved a fail- co n y at N r a or B o m n t n all ove th s S ate to esi e t is ues ion ure. The State had fallen into discredit. T e e v r i e a p r p l t o s h r to b se tled by he C nve tion It was It had not the power, even should it have be n m d ou of t e a e tr a u y the niv rsa se tim nt f t e p opl of been inclined, to engage in it as State wh c is s p l e no on y f o th ra l the tat whn te Cnvetio asem-work. The Legislature therefore made rn udbtb ae norra n bled in 862 an ha be n t e s nti ent the best bargain they could with the com- p r o a r p r y l v r t e S a e of he peo le of theSt te or ma y y ar. any to take the lands and build the N w i,i l h t h s b e r e z we are now entitled to more than seve per cent. This is the legal obligation,: the value of the property would produc more than two per cent. If it wo uld no we are not entitled to more than seve per cenlt. So that preserving this relatio in the Constitution between the State an the Illinois Cen~tral railroad, created b their charter, as the value of the propert increases, or as a more just valuation i obtained, so that the sumn which the rail road company is required to pay -wil amount to mnore than seven per cent., it i the right of the State to have it;* and tha the State will ultimately have it, there i no reason to doubt. As a matter of fact thecontract-I speak of it as a contract for that is what it is-is not to -pay j us seven per cent., no more, uo less. Thenl the position has been taken, tha it would be better for the State to abolish this entire relation, in respect to the com mutation of the taxes of this company and tax all their property both for Statl and local purp oses, as we do the property of individuals. It is not in that respect, Mr. Chairman exactly what would be best for us to do but what we have the power to do.] put the proposition this way, and I ap peal to every gentleman who takes an interest ill the question) whether I do not state it fairly, that if we abrogate this charter, anid attempt to tax the property of tlais company as we do that of indiViduals, if it is a better thing for the State and a worse thing for them, by virtue of their vested rights under the conltra~ct, we cannot compel them to accept less rights than they -have; and if it is urged that the company desire that this article should be inserted, because it is beneficial to them-that is a specious argument and cannot be sound, for we caniiot compel them to pay mlore than they a-re obliged to pay by the contract; but we may permit them if we leave this all open question, to pay very much less. We aiay co.-iimute'this comtmutation that we alr eady have, for that which is mere shzjll,(( w. Fo-r that reason, Mr. Chairman, I am for inlsertin~g this provision squarely, inl plain, unequivocal language, and in no doubtful phrase, as this committee have reported it-that the money secured to the State by. virtue of the charter of this APRIL 13, 1870. 1249 1250 CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION WEDNESDA;~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ favor of these poor counties along the ten years-the purchaser during the time to have been undergone by the counties ten years-the purchaser during the time being exempt from all taxation. There isa very large amount of this land in that situation at present, owned by the Illinois Central railroad comlpany. The title is in them, and rot conveyed. The purchasers have large farms and buildings on such lands. They are in our townships, enjoying the benefits of the productions of the soil and are exempt from taxation. Whether the State did or did not make a good bargain, it was done without the consent of the counties, and I ask in all fairness if there is any reason why the counties where this property is located shall continue to make improvements without assistance from the taxation of these lands. Common roads are being made by the people, other railroads and county roads, court houses, school houses, churches-allwpublic improvements co, - structed by the people enhancing the value of these railroad lands, while they pay no taxes. And it is by the authority of the State that the company enjoy these advantages, while the right of the counties to tax these lands is denied. If an arrangement should be made between the people through their representatives and the Illinois Central rail road company to release the railroad from paying their seven per cent., a public sentiment might be gotten up among the people themselves that would release it, if thereby these counties would have an equal right to levy local taxes upon this vast property as its true value. It would be their interest to do so. A state of the case might exist-the population might become so near a majority that their influence, if you please, in forming a combination or combinations with other influences, or counties not cut by these railroads, might be sufficient to carry it by the popular vote. To prevent this, the counties through which these railroads pass or own property exempt from local taxation, are askipg now nothing but what is just. As the gentleman from Coles [Mr. Bromwell] has said, they have fully paid for all the advantages they have derived from this system of railroads called the Illinois Central railroad company, as theother counties have done, in the erection or construction of other railways in those counties [Here the hammer fell]. Mr. McCOY. Mr. Chairman: I suppose no gentleman on this floor, or in this Convention, desires the release of the Illinois Central Railroad company from its obligation to the State under its charter. If there be, I have heard no such expression. I believe it is the sentiment of this whole Convention, that we shall fasten in the Constitution, as a certainty, a provision that the people may have the benefit of theseven per cent., without any sort of discount I take it that the report of the committee is slighly objectionable (and I am opposed to the amendments); for it does not deal out ample justice to all the people of the State. When it was presented, it looked plausible on its face, that these counties on the line of the Illinois Central Railroad should receive a portion of this seven per cent. fund. But, upon consideration, I supposed no member here would entertain the idea for a moment that the amendment should be adopted, for the reason that the suffering claimed 1250 CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION WEDNESDAY I favor of these poor counties along the Central Railroad, has any gentleman said that they are worse off than though that railroad had never been built? Has any man said that he is poorer, or that his laD d is poorer? The gentlemen talk about the high prices of land there. Why? Simply because building that railroad by property belonging to the State has brougbtthe land up, and the people have received the benefit of the rise. We not only look at values there in view of what they are now in the hands of the men owning the land along the line of that road, but to what they were before the railroad was there, by comparison. That will tell whether those counties have been subj ect to burdens, over and above other counties which have taxed themselves largely to obtain rililroads,but the' benefits of which these counties receive without iMI)OSiDg.UpOn themselves these burdens. I did not design speaking further upon this subject. I did Dot suppose the subj -ect would be further discussed, but that for the time being it would be abandoned-as I was informed by some gentlemen from the unfortunate counties through which the railroad runs. [Here the hammer fell.] Mr. DEMENT. Mr Chairman: As an apology. for presenting My views in the renriark's I desire making, I will say I-waS Dot present when this article was under consideration upon a former occasion. I think I was the:first member upon the floor who introduced to the consideration of the Convention the subject of returning,. to the coud ties a? portion'of the seven per cent. paid into the State treasury by the Illinois Central railroad, in consideration of the areat amount of perty in those counies throul-h which ?be railroad passes, which is exempt from local taxation. Whatever argument I now attempt insupport of the justice of return -- ling to such counties some sum-in lieu of the property exempt from local tax, I wish to comprehend in as few words as possible. I I will, in answer to the gentlemen who insist with so much zeal and pertinacity, upon the flxing irrevocably in the CoDsTitutiOD, a; rohibition against the Legis p ture releasing the Central railroad from paving into the State treasury the seven per cent. of the gross earnings of the to have been undergone by the counties along the line of the Illinois Central Railroad, and the agony they bave-endured by reason of it, do not entitle "bem to ask anything, because, when gentlemen come to look In the prison walls and see the amount f suffcridg that has been inflicted upon the State of Illit)ois, they will discover that the county adjacent to the one through which the road runs, has suffered, virtually, nearly as i-nuch. Take the county of Clitton, if you please, where my friend [Mr. Buxton]. lives. That county has doubly suffere&. Both branches of the road run through that couiity, and if she is to receive re turns in proportion to the extraordinary amoubt of suffering that she has undergone, the result will be that she must have a double portion. Look at the m,.iu branch of the road ruU]3lDg Out To, Du buque. Now, if that road runs through the edge of the county, it does not cause any more sufferidg in that county than it does in a county whose'bouiidary line is six miles distant. Take the county of LaSalle, if you please. The road runs about five miles from the western I)oundary entirely througi-i the county. Now, sir, there has been nearly the same Dumber of acres, I take it, withdrawn from taxation in the .counties lying west of the line of that county, as there leave been in the county of LaSalle, and so it would be unjust to reimburse the county of LaSalle without allowing the counties lying west to have the same beiaefit from the distribution. I am in favor, sir, of striking Out this portion which relates to the State revenue. Let the money be, put into the State treasury as a fund, and let it be -paid out in pursuance of law. That will be just. The Legislature can proportion the distribution Of it so that the whole State may receive ample justice. And, therefore, I am in favor of striking Out this proposition of amendment, and I am also in favor of rejecting that portion of the repo'rt of the;ommitteewhich says: "and forever constitute a. portion of the revenue of the- State," and inserting in lieu thereof when the proper time c-)mes: "to be paid out in pursuance of law." Then the members Of the Legislature, when they convene here, can take up the several counties and townships through which this road runs and also t DEBAT.ES AND PROCEEDINGGS. it mit to the counties along the road, witho out further consideration, any portion of . that fund. I do not think it would be l- advisable for the Convention, upon the d other hand, by any action here, to pre,f dude these counties from making that question, at the proper time, before the e Legislature. We are seeking here to so 1 form the Constitutiop that it shall be acu- ceptable to the counties along the line of e that railroad as well as other portions of the S ta te. Mr. BENJAMIN. Mr. Chairman: There seems to be an impressionherethat some of Us are ini favor of releasing the company firm the, payment of the sev-r Pn per cent. There is a provision upon this subject, in the -proposed Constitution of 1862' which I, for one, aml in favor of. I will read it: SFUSc. 38. The:t General Arrembly of this IState shall have no power to release, suspend maodify, alter, remit, or in an way or m Ianner impair the obligations of ~the Illisois Central railroad company to pay -'into the State treasIury all sums of money secured to the State by the charter of said company, approved Feb,-uary 0, 1851; nor to release, suspend, modi'y., alter, remit, or in any manner impair any right of taxation or lien secured to the State by said chlarter' I would be glad to see that provision ras a su'stitute for the first section of the report of the comniittee on Revenue. :Every member who has spoken. on thi!s ;side of the q'ue'stion, has stated that he is in favorr of- that part of the section which provides that the General Assembly shall ha-ve no power to release or otherwise 'discharge the company from the pay ments stipulated in the charter., The question is, whether, or not there is any provision: in this section which prohibits justice being done to the counties which lie along the line of the road. Iwas happy to hear the chairman of the commi~ttee state that there was no in teiition on the part of the committee in framing this article, to place any restrictioul whatever on the action of the Legion l ature'a-this regard. I still adhere to the statement that I made when this subj ect was before this -body prior to the adjournment, that all I desire for the present is to keep out of the Constitutioni any prohibition of the action of the Legislature on this matter. I agree with the chairman of the committee, that it- is very desirable' that, we C onstitution with less objection than ane. other that could be adopted. The ques tion of the construction of this ladguag with reference to a question that rnigh be made by the counties along the lit of the Central railroad, was duly con sidered. The view unanimously taken by a- ma jority of the committee weas this: Tha upon one'question the people of this Stats were united, viz.: that the fuud deri~vable from the Central railroad, unHder its char ter, should be constitutionally secured and not left open to appliances to which subsequent Legislatures might be liable for a release o~fit. tche question of wvheth er, under the operation of the charter' as it now exists, counties along th~e ]ine of the Central railroad were not utijustiy dealt with, was before the committee, and an intelligent member of that committee who represents One of those counties raised the qulestionl on the langUagae here employed, as to whether we intended to reclude, by the language used, the rigbt of those counties to make the questionl of their right to a portion of that fuend. There was no such intention onl the part of the committee, in the preparation of this-article, or the language employed ill it. It was not thought advisab:le that this Convention should undertake to dea~l with that matter. Thirty-seven counties in this State are interested in that question, and as we are here framing a Constitution that should be acceptable to the people of the whole State, it was not thought advisable that by any action of this committee a question affecting the supposed peculiar interests of those counties should be dealt with. .While the committee deemed it advisable not to use language that would preclude those counties, that would alter their relations in any way whatever from the relations and the rights that they have under the law as it now exists,, they yet did not feel, on the other haned, that such language should be employed- with reference to that fund as would recognize the right of these counties to reimbursement of that fund to the prejudice of the remaining sixt;y-five counties -if the State. Such was the judgment of the committee-that'the representatives here of all the counties were uot prepared to th e other counties,their ri g ht there o ingsis upon the whole of that fund going i h st f the State treasury for the c omm o n fene tefit o f the State. Hence the language em plsa yed. Some objections hav e b een urges - tothe language e mpl oyed in a clause o the first section. A ll m oney acruing to the State by virtus of the, charter of thse Illinois C entral railroad company, shall: be pai d into the State treas ,d ury, a nd forever constitute a portion of the threvenue of the State. I t i s objected that there is somethicla in that language that looks lIIke preclud , ing the counties along the liane of the Central- railroad from. a skili)g-theR LegislaS ture to appropriate to them s uch portion of that money as they in sist they~ are env . ti t led to. What is tle "a revenue of th State?" I understand it to be the money that goes into the State treasuro,riad is s ubject to S tat e app ropriation. Is there at y other definition of it? Is it objected that it s hou l d not g o into the St ate treasury? T he cha rter of the companyy twhich we cannot a-l ter, pr escribes it shall be paid into the State treasury. I do not say there is any particular significance in r etaining the lau g u age but i t is liable to no such construction as gertlemuen have attempted to put upon it. All monies that go into the treasury of t~he State,and are subjecttoappropria tiou,, con stitute a portion of the -reven ue of the State. No oane pr etends that after it g oes there, it shall forever remain there. Nobody can insist that that is the meaning of the language. It is to go there forever as a portion of the revenue of the State, subject, like any other money that go es into th e treasury of the State, to be appropriated b y the Legislature. Nobody's rights a re precluded by the language employed there. That was w hat the committee attempted inl the phraseology adopted. Now, sim - if th er e were any language haere t ha t a ttempted to tollow this fund, after it got in t o the St at e treasury, and limit the man ner of its appropriatioc h then these gentlemen would have somethinig to complain of; but as there is no such language or language- of that character, which was studiously avoided by the committee, objection to this article should come from any other quarter of this hall sooner than from gentlemen representing localities along the line of There is a provision in the article reported to this Convention by the Committee upon Railroads, which does follow the- money after it goes into the State treasury, and does limit the right of the Legislature in regard to its appropriatvion, confining the appropriation of that money to the ordinary expenses of the State government-about which these gentlemen might complain. B'ut when I we have gone so far as to provide, in lang iage not susceptible of any such construction, when we have provided simply, for the fund going safely into the State treasury, leaving the power of appropriation in the Legislature over the fund, just the same as over any other money in the State treasury, it is strange to me that, gentlemen should object to this provision. Now, sir, I do not think the people of this State are at present prepared to go further with this fund. I do not think gentlemen representing counties not along the line of that road, are prepared to re i 1 t App,iL 13) 1870. 1251 125 COSIUINLCN1-I~WDEDY of ordinary expenses of the government. Hence I think the clause has a meaning in that respect. If it merely means that this fund should be paid into the State treasury, let us stop there, and not use this doubtful language which may create a prejudice against the Constitution in no less than thirty-seven counties. And we cannot secure the adoption of the Constitution without the support of those counties. tThere is another section in this article to which I will refer: SEc. 10. All appropriations of the State revenue shall be from the revenue fund, in general, contained in the State treasury; and no appropriation of the tax collected or to be collected from any locality or district, or any designated property or source of revenue shall ever be made. This expressly prohibits the appropriati on or application of any portion of this fund to the counties, as partial compensation for being deprived of the privilege of local taxation. It expressly prohibits this, if I can understand language. The first and the tenth sections of this article, in my opinion, clearly prohibit the Legislature from affo)rdinig simple justice to the counties lying along the line of the Central railroad. The counties lying along the line of the Chicago and Alton railroad, including Sangamon, would not voluntarily vote for a proposition depriving them of the right to tax the property of that road, and providing that a per centage of its gross profits should be paid into the State treasury in lieu of local taxation. Mr. BUXTON. Mr. Chairman: If it is in order, I wish to move a substitute fo)r the pending proposition. The CHAIRMAVAN. The Chair believes it is in order. Mr. BUXTON. I move then, sir, to substitute the sixth section of the report of the Committee on Raitroads for the section under consideration. I do this for two reasons. First, the section is far more satisfactory, and meets iiiy views more fully upon this question; and the further reason is, that it is highly proper that this section of the report of the Committee on Railroads should be disposed of at the same time as the other, since it relates to precisely the same sub ject matter. The section reported by the C(~,ni-mm-ittee on Railroads is as fi)llows: Sec. 6. No contract, obligation or liabilty whatever of the Illinois Central Railroad company to pay any sums of money into the State treasury; nor any lien of the State upon, or right to tax the property of said comnanv T in accordance with the provisions of the chatrter of said company, approved February 10 1851, shall ever be released, suspended, modifled, altered, remitted, or in any way or manner diminished or impaired, by legislative or other authority; and all moneys derived from said company, after the payment of the State debt, shall be appropriated and set apart for the payment of the ordinary expenses of the State government, and for no other purposes whatever. U-pon this proposition, I will submit a iew reflections upon the last clause of the report, there being probably no objection as I can see, to this Convention fixing irrevocably the requirement that the Illinois Central railroad company shall pay the money as required by their charter, and the only question before this committee that seems to be debatable is the equity of the distribution of the fund received-whether the counties through which this road passes are equitably entitled to receive any more of its benefits paid into'the State treasury, where is the necessit y of this additional clause? The whole sentence reads: All moneys accruing to the State, by virtue of the charter of the Illinois Central railroad company, shall be paid into the State treasury, and forever constitute a portion of the revenue of the State. That the latter clause has some meaning, I th ink can be rea dily se en fro m an ex amina tion of th e proviso in this section. The proviso does not apply to the release or discharge of the railroad company. It does not apply to the provision that moneys coming to the State, by virtue of the charter, shall be paid into the State treasury. it applies to this one clause, about which there has arisen this contest-the clause forever constituting this fund a portion of the reve nue of the State. I will read the proviso: Provided, however, That nothing herein contained shall be construed as affecting the application of said money to the payment of interest bearing State indebtedness until the extinction thereof, as provided in the charter of said company. There was, so to speak, an instinctive and perhaps unconscious feeling on the part of the members of the committee that there was some sort of necessity for this proviso. Mr. HAY. Mr. Chairman: With the permission of the gentleman, I will ex plain: This proviso, as the committee will see, is in the exact language of the charter of the Illinois Central railroad company. As the fund would go into the treasury, subject to appropriate legislation, the question arose whether the Legislature would not appropriate the money differently from what the charter prescribed-which was to the extinction first of interest bearing indebtedness. Fearing it might raise a question which the Illinois Central railroad company might urge as a breach of its charter, to cut off all questions we put in this proviso that it should not affect that provision in the charter. Under the first sentence it went to the State treasury, subject to general appropriation. Then. the Legislature might, instead of applying it as the charter provided-to the extinction of the State indebtedness —might vote it away for other purposes. Then the Illinois Central railroad company might raise the questions whether we had not, by our Constitution, given to the Legislature that power, and inssist that by their charter the Legislature could not have that power. Mr. BENJAMIN. Mr. Chairman: To answer to that point, I will say, here is a provision that "the General Assembly shall have no power to release or other wise discharge said railroad company from the payment thereof," meaning the fused. Here is an express prohibition under which the Legislature could do no act directly or indirectly which would result in releasing the company. So even if the Legislature should attempt to leg islate contrary to the charter, such at-tempt would tie null and void. Hence there is no necessity for that proviso. Again, what is the meaning of that word "revenlue?" It has been used ex tensively its national politics. We have beard of a protective tariff and a revenue tariff. I thic,k the courts would be justi fied in making a vital distinction between those two kinds of tariff. And when we use the word "revenuer we mean the fund to be devoted exclusively tithe payment than the counties th ro ugh which it does not pass. In order to determine the equity of this question, I will say first, that there is not a county in this State, through which the road does not run, but what would be willing to be burdened with it, without be ing compensated by recei ving any portion of the seven per cent. I venture the assertion that my friend from Woodford [Mr. Bayne] would be willing to have that road run through his county. Mr. BAYNE. It does go through my county, Mr. Chairman. Mr. BUXTON. I will then say the gentleman from DeKalb [Mr. Sedgwick]. 1 will say that Sangamon county-(and the honorable chairman of the Com,mittee on the Re,-enue [Mr. Hay] will jot dispute me), would have saved the one hundred thousand dollars it has recently voted to get a road running north and south through the county, it the Illinois Central railroad had been located here instead of through Macon county. In the southern part of the State this road runs through Marion county, about a mile from the line of Clinton county. I believe it has as much land untaxed in Clinton county as in Marion county. They have six or seven flourishing towns, including the city of Centralia, in Marion county, built up on the line of this road. Clinton county would be willing to be burdened with those towns, and with the facilities of that road, and never say a word about this fund going to the State. In fact I think that there having been an appropriation of the property of the whole State, (as this munificent grant of laud was donated to the State of Illinois for the purpose of building a railroad,) the counties through which it runs receive far more benefit than their proportion of the seven per cent. would be were it divided out among the counties in pro portion to -heir population or wealth. I presume that there is no county through which this road runs that would be willing to give it up. Thereft,re, as an equitable question, they derive all the local advantages of the road, while the property of Saugamuon county, equally with the county of Macon, was appropriated for the purpose of c)a structlL,g that road. Macon county gets the benetit of it directly, and Sangamen county is lef[ to vote $100,000 lbr the purpose of getting a short ine:X through from soulthernl Illinois. The people (ot this State would vote two to) ohe, and I believe outside of the counties through which the lines run, almost unanimously, to retain this money ill the State treasury, and never allow it to be appro~priated to a.tythiug except the ordinary expenses of the State government. It was a magnificent grant of land to the people of the St.ite of Illinois for the purpose of building a railroad. lThe counties ulponl the east side of the State and the west side of it generously appropriated the whole of it to) build once grand thoroughfare thro~ugh the centre of the State. What man will say that the counties through which it was located did not feel themselves greatly benefited by getting the road located as it was?I there can be any complaint, it is that this lansd has been all appropriated for the purpose of building a road through the centre of the State, while M[organ,J CONSTI.TUTIONAL CON'VFNTION WF,DNESDAY, 1252 APRIL 13, 1870. DEBATES AD PROCEEDIXGS.- 1253 Adams, Hancock, Madison and other else that can likely arise, and better calcounties, remote from this road, derive culated to form corrupt rings and combino benefit from it whatever, and that it nations for the purpose of depriving the is unjust to them that their lands should State of the benefits of this fund, while be appropri-ated for the purpose of build- placing it in such a shape that the pcople ing a railroad, and then that the revenue will rest satisfied it can never be diverted derived to the State from that railroad to any purpose not desired by them, but should not be equally distributed to all shall forever remain to support their govthe counties that furnished the land. ernment and relieve them from -heavy Sangamon county furnished as much land taxation. to that railroad as Macon county. Why Mr. ANDERSON. Mr. Chairme, n: is not she entitled to equal benefits of its Gentlemen who advocate the amendments revenues? offered to the first section of this report, Mr. DEMENT. Was not the railroad do so on the ground of equity. On that to be built through those counties when ground I am opposed to the amendments, the land was donated? for there is no justice nor equity in them. The general direction The very reason I oppose the amend Mr. BUXTON. The general direction ments proposed is, that it is not just and of the road was specified, but the location equitable that the railroad fund should befrmegtfietnieycnsoto in any particular county was not; and it returned that the railroad funid shougld behi was long debated whether the road should the road passes. What was stated to be not run through Carlyle, in Clinton coun - true of Clinton county may be said of ty, Nashville in Washington county, and Jefferson and Franklin counties. The Greenville, in Bon d co unty. The coun- Illinois Central railroad runsalong within ties through which this ro ad runs are im- two miles of the border of those counmensely benefited by the increase in the ties, but does not touch them, while the value of their lands, the building up of land of the company extends about fiflarge cities and towns in their midst, and teen miles into those counties. Now, unsurpassed market facilities, more than what justice is there in giving those compensating them for the loss they meet counties through which the line of the by being deprived of local taxation. railroad passes, the benefit of this fund, To illustrate this. The Legislature and at the same time deprive other counpassed a law appropriating $75,000 for ties, which it does not pass through, of any the purpose of erecting a normal school, benefit of the fund whatever? Is there whichwaslocatedat Carbondale. That mo- any equity or justice there u ney like this land grant, the property of In the county of Jefferson wie have voted the people of the whole State, was devo- $100,000 to build a railroad, yet there are ted to local improvement. That school thousands of acres of railroad lands in will be exempt from taxation as a matter the county we cannot tax at all. We deof course. Carbondale was to derive a rive no benefit whatever from them,t large amount of local benefits from the while the counties through which the fact of its location at that point, and, road passes derive all the benefit from therefore, was willing to donate a large the growth of property in cities and amount of money and land for the purpose towns. Yet they come here and claim of securing the location. that all these taxes should go to the Were the question now open for the counties and not to the State-that we people of this State, and the counties shall give them a'l the taxes that should from north to south to vote upon the go to the State. question of location of the Illinois Central Is there any justice in giving a third of road, Sangamon county, to secure its loca- the counties the benefit of what all should tion, would vote not only that it would have? The justice is on the side of the relinquish all claim to its share of the sev- two-thirds. If we give to any counties, en per cent., but would probably make give to those through which the road another vote of another $100,000 tosecure does not pass. But we are not here to such a great thoroughfare. make such a demand. We are here to If there is any equity in the case, in re- say that this fund should go into the gard to the division of this seven per State treasury to defray the expenses of cent., it is that a sum equal to the value the State government. of this land should be given to every other If we want to do anything that will county in the State for the purpose of sink and damn our Constitution, just pass helping them to build their railroads. the amendments that have been offered The people of this State have for a to this section. The people demand that long time been looking forward to the this Central railroad fund shall be forev"good time coming," when the funds de- er secured to the State, beyond all legisrived from the Central railroad should be lative interference, and that it shall be sufficient to pay the ordinary expenses of for the whole State, and not for a part- o the State, and thus relieve their heavy that all the counties shall be benefited by burdens; but judging from present ap- it, and not a part of them. No one counpearances and the desire of people along ty or set of counties should derive more the line of the Central road to get, not benefit than the rest. I implore gentleonly the local benefits of the road, but men not to engraft in our Constitution also the revenues secured to the State for such a measure as these amendments will that munificent grant of land which be- be if adopted. Let us secure this fund longed equally to the whole State, that for the people of the entire State, and time wiAl probably never come. not for this county or that county. But if we should adopt the provision Mr. MEDILL. Mr. Chairman: Repcontained in the report of the Committee resenting in part a county that has a upon Railroads, that the moneys derived larger interest in any division that may from this company, after paying the State be made-any distribution of this fund, debt, shall be appropriated for the pay- than any other county in this State, Iwill ment of the ordinary expenses of the support the report of the Committee on State government, it would remove from Revenue, although in so doing, it may (;ur halls of legislation a source of cor- look as though I were voting against the ruption far greater than from anythtng interests of my own constituents. 314 APRIL 13, 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. - 1253 This is a difficult question. It is one we caniaot settle here. It is a question about wbicli the people of the State will argue and dispute so long as that seven per cent. f iind flows into the State treasury. We need never expect to have con,iplete and -perfect peace on this question. At the same time I have no expectation that any proposition providing for a pro rata distribution of that fund to the counties through which the road passes, will secure a majority of both branches of the Legislature, together with the Governor's signature. Commencing at Chicago we have a line of three hundred and sixty-five miles to Cairo. On every passenger that enters the cars at either end, the State collects from eighty-five to ninety cents out of the fare charged for conveying him from one end of the road to the other. Now, I venture to,-ay that the sixtyseven or seventy counties through which this railroad does not pass, will be slow in surrendering to these other thirty or thirty-five counties any portion of this revenue in lieu of local taxes, derived from passengers not beloiagiing to those counties. The same opposition applies to every pound of freight that is conveyed over that railroad, not produced in the counties through which the road passes. All those sections of the State will oppose it ul)on principles of manifest justice and equity. Let us examine this matter a little more in detail. I will begin with the county of Will, through which the road passes ten or twelve miles. If the county of Will were to derive a rebate on two per cent. of the seven, equal to her per cent. of the mileage of the Illinois Central, she would lose a considerable sum of money, because the amount now placed to her credit in the State treasury is very considerably more than she would gain by the local taxation on those twelve miles of track. Through the county of Ford the road passes only five or six miles across a singLe towns hi. That county would lose also, for the reason stated in regard t(y Will. The county of Vermilion contributes a considerable commerce to the road, though it does not pass through any portion of the county. The county of Moultrie lies within, two or three miles of that road 1254 co STITUTIONAL ()ONvETiO WEDNESDAY, ury, is equal to $4,000 per mile. Now, if we were to surrender that two per cent. tax and place the property of the Illinois Central on duplicates the same ast other railroad property, the following would be the result: The State now receives $129,000 from the two per cent. tax, whereas if the property were on the duplicates and taxed as all other railroad property, the State would receive therefrom $49,876, and the counties would receive $64,571 [Here the hammer fell. "Go on," "go on."',Leave."] Mr. MEDILL-Making in all about $114,000-being a considerably less sum than is now received. Therefore it would be a losing operation to tax this road upon the basis proposed here, for the sake of securing some local taxes to certain counties. It is true those counties would gain $64.571, but the State treasury would lose $80,000, to be made good by increased taxation in considerable part by those very counties. Mr. WELLS. I would like to ask the gentleman a question. Does he include the value of the railroad lands in that assessment? Mr. MYLEDILL. No. I find in the charter that the lands are specifically exempted from taxation until they are sold. Afterwards they are all liable to taxation the same as other lands. Every piece. of land that ever belonged to the Illinois Central railroad that has passed into private hands, is upon the tax duplicate the same as other lands. Now, Mr. Chairman, from these figures I derive this conclusion. The State is getting more money out of the Illinois Central by the two per cent. tax than we would get by putting that railway on the tax duplicate. And, furthermore, that it would be unwise and unsafe for this Convention to undertake to divide the income derived from that road among the counties. Better let it alone and adopt the provisions on the subject reported by the Revenue Committee. In the second place, it would be a gross wrong to many counties the road does not pass through, but lying near its line, and which contribute largely to the commerce of the road, to permit the other counties through which it happens to run, to take the two per cent. obtained from it. It would be an injustice to the whole State to take it, for the reason that a large proportion of the receipts of the Illinois Central en which the two per cent. is levied, is derived from business outside of the State —from the south, the north, from Iowa, Wisconsin and Minnesota. If this Convention shall attempt to partition the revenue from that road among the counties, it will produce ten times more heart-burnings, ill-feelings and hostilities than are felt now by the present mode of distribution. That is my conclusion upon the most careful review that I am able to give the question. And I speak as a member whose constituents rwould gain more than the constituents of any other member, by changing the present mode of distributing these funds. I think, therefore, that the committee have gone as far as they ought to; as far as is safe, just and fair. While they have not precluded subsequent legislative bodies from acting on this subject, they have, nevertheless, not attempted to commit the Convention to any particular mode of distributing this fund among the counra COl' STITUTIONAL CONiVENTiON WEDNESDAY. 1254 ties. The Legislature, in my judgmeut, under this article, will have all the power to make any distribution of the money they see proper, that this Convention now possesses. The Legislature has Convention powers-powers for all purposes except those that are expressly prohibited by the Constitution. A Legislature is really a constitutional body, in respect to all things not forbidden by the Constitution. It derives its power from the same source, and is responsible to the same people for the exercise thereof. This report goes far enough; let us be wise and stop there. Mr. WELLS. I move a vote now be taken. Mr. WASHBURN. I would like to say a few words on the question of the substitute. I represent a county through which the railroad runs, and also one through which it does not run; therefore, I am in a situation to give as fair and impartial an opinion as any gentleman on this floor, and what I do say will not be prompted by personal or political interests, but purely for the public good. It is a total impossibility for this Convention, or perhaps any Legislature, to authorize a county in this State, through which that railroad runs, to tax the property of the railroad. That is beyond the power of this Convention or the Legislature. And then the question comes up, as urged by representatives from counties through which this railroad runs, as to the equity they have to a return to their counties, of a portion of the moneys received by the State from the railroad in order to repay them for their losses in being deprived of the power of taxing the railroad. I must confess I cannot see the equity. We have no kind of opposition or feeling against any county or any per. son in it,through which the railroad runs, but if it be true that the railroad was built by land granted to the whole State of Illinois, then each county in the State is entitled to its proportion of the benefits of that grant; and each county is entitled if they can get them, to the benefits of that grant, under the operations of the charter and payment of seven per cent. into the State treasury. I want to ask each member of this Con. vention who lives in a county, and repre. sents a county, through which the railroad runs, if his county does not enjoy at least as much benefit from the grant and location of the railroad in his county as any county through which it does not run. I do not believe there is a member on this floor who would stand us and say that a county through which that railroad runs is not to-day enjoying more benefit according to its population, from the grant of land and location of the railroad, than does any county through which it does not run. I know it was assumed here that because government received two dollars and a half an acre for the land, she there. fore made no grant. That is not good logic. The grant was made complete by the general govrernment, and the people of the State did derive the benefit, although the governument by the transaction might not have lost a cent. And more than that, it was an absolute benefit to those persons who paid two dollars and a half for the land, because they got a much better bargain for two dollars and a half than if they had paid one dollar and a quarter without the location of the railroad. So So, Johnson would be cheated in the same way for the benefit of Union, which my republican friends down there would perhaps object to, that beinge, one of the bright spots of Egypt. Again, a road is being built, at a very heavy expense to the people, from Shawneetown, through-Gallatin, White, Wayne and Clay, to strike the Illinois Central railroad in Effingham. These four counties, with Edwards, Hamilton and Saline make up seven counties which will convey their products upon that line, and pour an enormous business on the Illinois Central railroad, on which the State will derive seven per cent. tax on freights and fares, would be robbed of every penny of their just dues, by the tax being diverted from the State treasury, into the local treasuries of EffiDgham and Coles. So, beginning at Galena, and tracing the line south, I find that the county of Carroll, running close to the road, not a mile of it, however, within its limits, still furnishes a large traffic and trade, from which the county of Lee would obtain two per cent. The road runs close to the eastern boundary of Bureau and of Putnam for a distance of some forty miles, yet touches neither, but the county of LaSalle would derive the revenue from those two counties, every dollar of it. At the same time, Bureau and Putnam, perhaps, contribute as much commerce to the road in that distance as the county ct LaSalle, for LaSalle has several other outlets. Now, all the other counties of the State that lie still further away from the track of the Illinois Central, but still patronize the road more or less, would lose their portion of the taxes. I have made a computation here that may throw a little additional light upon the subject. It shows how much would be gained or lost by this proposed commutation of the tax. I find, Mr. Chairman, by the Auditor's report of 1869, that the whole value of the railroads of the State, other than the Illinois Central, aggregating 3,000 miles, was $16,280,000: that the average value per mile on the tax list, embracing rolling stock, depots, and all other'property, is $5,430; and outside of Cook county, $4,900 per mile. The State derived a total revenue in 1869, from all other railroads than the Illinois Central, of 211,000 on the $16,280,000. The Auditor states that while the State taxes amount to thirteen mills on the dollar, the local taxes of the counties of the State will average about seventeen mills. On that basis the counties of the State derive $276,000 from all the railroad tax ation, except the Illinois'3entral. Now, estimate the Illinois Central on the samne basis, it being 708 miles, against 3,000 of other roads that are locally taxed, the whole amount of mn~lley that the State would derive would be $49,864, and the whole amount that would go to the counties, if dtistributcd upon this pro r'ata principle of taxing it as other roads are taxed, would be $64,571, to be divided amzong thirty-seven counlties, but belonging by equal right to twenty other adjoining counties, which would receive none of it. The am~ount of local taxes that would accrue to a county through which a road passed twenty-five miles, would be about $2,080. But the two per cent. in lieu of these taxes which is placte7 in the treas APRIL 13, 1870. DEBATES AND~ PRO()EEDIG 1q55 "hands off" of the substitute of the gen tl eman from Clinton [Mr. Buxton]. I am in favor of the substitute. There is no telling what Legislatures will not dare to touch, these days, when common men "walk unabashed where angels dare not tread." The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman from DeWitt [Mr. Moore] moved to strike out certain words, and the gentleman from Coles [Mr. Bromwell] moved to in sert certain words. Will the Clerk read. The Clerk read the amendment offered by Mr. Bromwell, as follows: Insert in lieu of words stricken out: "The -sum of said fund shall be apportioned among the counties through which said road passes, in proportion to the length of line of said road included in the limits of said county, respectively." The CHAIRMAN. The question first is upon the motion of the gentleman from Coles [Mr. Bromwell]. Mr. MOORE. Mr. Chairman: I hope the question will be divided. The ques tion of striking out, by one vote, and the question of inserting by another. Mr. SEDGWICK. With all defer ence, Mr. Chairman, I would submit that the question first is upon the substitute. The CHAIRMAN. The Chair does not so understand it. The original mo tion is to strike out, and the motion to amend the amendment being disposed of, the motion of the gentleman from Clin t.on [Mr. Buxton] to substitute will then be in order. Mr. SEDGWICK. I again submit, Mr. Chairman, that the question should be put upon the substitute. I suppose what the Chairman is think ing of, is this: That the friends of the original proposition have a right to per fe ct it by amendment, but to do nothing further. The question is first upon the substitute. If that fails, then it is upon the original motion as amended. Mr. BUXTON. Mr. Chairman: I believe that the amendment should be first disposed of-not the proposition, but the amendment. Mr. SEDGWICK. Mr. Chairman: I call upon the President of the Convention [Mr. Hitchlcock] to decide. Mr. HITCHCOCK. Mr. Chairman: The proposition to substitute one section for another is, in substance, a proposition to strike out one section and insert the other. The motion of the ge ntleman from Clinton [Mr. Buxton] is a proposition to strike out one and insert another section. It is the right of the friends of the original proposition-that is, of the section as reported by the committee —to perfect that section by amendments, before the question shall be taken upon striking it out, and inserting the substitute of the gentleman from Clinten [M.r. Buxton] The Chair is clearly right that the first question is upon the amendment ofe fered by the gentleman from Coles [Mr. Bromwell], to the proposition of the gentletman from DeWitt [Mr. Moores to strike out. Then the question should be upon the proposition of the gentleman ufrom DeWitt [Mr. Moore], as -it may be amended, or as it will stand if the amendment is voted down. Then the question will recur upon striking out the section, as amended, and inserting the substitute of the gentleman from Clinton [Mr. Buxton]. there is no loss to the county, or burden on individuals who purchased the land. In f act it was quite an accomodation. The people w ho pai d two do llars and a half an acre for the land got a better bargain; and even if it had been a worse bargain, they did so at their own option. Upon the question of taxation, I ask the members of those counties through which this railroad runs-did the location of that railroad decrease their taxable property? It certainly did not, but it increased it immeasurably. They have had the benefit of an immense increase of the value of their property on account of the location of that railroad. Then, again, they knew just as well when that railroad was located in their county as they do now, the terms upon which it was located there; when that location was made they knew that the charter of that railroad exempted it from county taxation. If they had any objection to the terms they ought then either to have made their objections or told the propri etors to locate it in another county whose people would have been willing and anx ious to accept it upon those terms. But, no-they were glad to get the location of the railroad upon the terms of exemption, and now, twenty years after, they come in and complain that it is scarcely fair and equitable. It may be insisted that the counties through which this road passes, pay the seven per cent. in the shape of freights and fare. Suppose they do. Is that a disadvantage to them? They pay it as a matter of their own will. They travel and ship upon the railroad. If the road is an advantage to the people of the whole State, it is especially an advantage to those who use it. It would be extremely unjust and unequal for the counties through which the road passes, to have all the benefits of the fund. It is unjust for Williamson county, which has equal rights to the benefits of this road, to pay taxes which are to be distributed back to Jackson county through which the road runs, and which enjoys infinitely more benefits of the road than Williamson. It is said that if we adopt the substitute, it will defeat or greatly endanger the adoption of the Constitution. I, for one, am willing to pass upon that question} and we may just as well decide the question now as at any other time, and thus save a vast amount of money which will be spent by agitation of the question hereafter in the Legislature. If mlembers of the Conlvenltion think that this section is likely to endanger their Constitution, there is not a friend of it but is willing to let it go before the people separately. And if a few men ill those counties aloft the line of this road cannot vote for it, let them vote against it. There is not a friend of this substitute but is anxious that it should be passed upon separately by the people, and stand or fall upon its own merits. It is highly important that this quest~on should be decided, and not kept open feor future agitation. I think it does nobody any injury, and we propose not; to endanger the Constitution lay it at all. Mr. PERLEY. Mr. Chairmanu: I am perfectly willing, with the gentleman fom Cook [M~r. Mealill], that future Legislatures should have this question to "look at," but I want them to look at it through a glass case labelled withi he Mr. BUXTON. Mr. Chairman: Iwish to move an amendment-that is, to insert the w ords, "does not," before the word "run," so that this fund that is to be dis t ribute d shall be given to the counti es th rough which the road does not r un, and which do not deri ve an y benefit from it. Mr. HITCHC.OCK. Mr. Chairman: There are two amendments already pend ing, and the amendment now offered is an amendment in the third degree, and not in order. Mr. BUXTON. Mr. Chairman: My motion is to amend the amendment which is to be inserted. Mr. HIITCHCOCK. Mr. Chairman: There is a proposition pending to amend the amendment of the gentleman from DeWitt [Mr. Moore] to strike out. The CHAIRMAN. The motion of the gentleman from Clinton [Mr. Bnxton] is out of order. The question being on the amendment offered by Mr. Bromwell, to the amend mend offered by Mr. Moore, it was not agreed to. The question being on the amendment offered by Mr. Moore, a division was or dered. The committee divided, when the amendment was not agreed to. The question then being on the substi tute offered by Mr. Buxton, the Clerk read as follows: SEc. 6. No contract, obligation or liability whatever of the Illinois Central Railroad company to pay any sums of money into the State treasury, nor any lien of the State upon, or right to tax the property of said company in accordance with the provisions of the char ter of said company, approved February 10, 1851, shall ever be released, suspended, modi fied, altered, remitted, or in any way or man ner diminished or impaired, by legislative or other authority; and all moneys derived from said company, after the payment of the State debt, shall be appropriated and set apart for the payment of the ordinary expenses of the State government, and for no other purposes whatever. Mr. McCOY. Mr. Chairman: I call for a division of the question, first upon the ques tion. as to the release of the Illinois Cen tral Railroad from its liability, and sec ondly upon the distribution of the fund. I take it that is a fair subject of division. The CHAIRMAN. The Clerk will read the substitute again. The Clerk read the substitute offered by Mr. Buxton, as follows: No eoniract, obligation or liability whatever of the Illinois Central railroad company to pay any sums of money into the State treasury, nor any lien of the State upon, or right to tax the property of said company in accordance with the pr'ovisions of the charter of said company, approved FEebruary 10, 1851, shall ever be released, suspended, modified, altered, remitted, or in any way or manner diminished or impaired, by legislative or other authority;* and all moneys detrived from said company, after the payment of the State debt, shall be appropriated and set apart for the payment of the ordinary expenses of the State government, and for no other purpose whatever. Mr. BUXTON.! suppose, Mr. Chairman, that that would be divisible down to the word "authority." The CHAIRMAN. The question is clearly divisible, but the question is first upon striking out the section for which thlis is offered as a substitute —section one. Mr. CHIURCH. Mr. Chairman: Myundersta~ ding is that the question is now. upon the adoption of the substitute of. he gentleman from Clinton [Mr. Bux APPRIL 13, 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. .1255 1256 ()1ONSTJTUTIOAL ()OYETIO THURSDAY, ton]. I do not regard that as susceptible of division. It necessarily takes the place of the other if it is adopted as a substitute. Mr. DEMENT. Mr. Chairman: In order to unravel this question, I move that the question as it now stands before the committee be thus divide d- that it first be upon strikingo out the first section of the report of the committee. Mr. HITCHCOCK. Mr. Chairman: There is really no difficulty about this question under the rule. The gentleman from McHenry [Mr. Church] I apprehend, does not recollect that the Convention has adopted a special rule upon this question. It is a general rule of parlia mentary law, that a proposition to strike out and insert, or in other words a proposition to substitute, is not divisible. But by special rule, it is divisible. This proposition has already been divided by the Chair into two questions. I apprehend the first question is simply upon striking out. If the motion to strike out prevails, the question then is upon inserting the first clause, and then upon inserting the second clause of the proposition. The question being upon striking out section one, a division was ordered. The committee divided, when, there being twenty five in the affirmative and nineteen in the negative, the motion was agreed to. 0 The CHAIRMAN. The question is upon the adoption of the substitute proposed by the gentleman from Clinton [Mr. Buxton]. Mr. McCOY. Mr. Chairman: I call for a division of the question. The CHAIRMAN. The question is upon the first clause of the substitute. Mr. McCOY. Mr. Chairman: I call for the reading of the first clause. The Clerk read the first clause of the substitute offered by Mr. Buxton, as follows: SEC. 6. No contract, obligation or liability whatever of the Illinois Central railroad company to pay any sums of money into the State treasury, nor any lien of the State upon, or right to tax the property of said company in accordance with the provisions of the charter of said company, approved February 10th, 1851,'shall ever be released, suspended, modified, altered, remitted, or in any way or manner diminished or impaired, by legislative or other authority. The first clause was agreed to. The Clerk read the second clause of the substitute offered by Mgr. Buxton, as follows: And all moneys derived fi'om said company, after the payment of the State debt, shall be appropriated and set apart for the payment of the ordinary expenses of the State gov ernment, and for no other purposes what ever. The question being on substituting the second clause of section six, a division was ordered. The committee divided, when, there be ing twenty-five in the affirmnative and fifteen in the negative, the motion was agreed to. So the second clause of the substitute was agreed to. Mr. WELLS. I move that the com mittee rise, report progress, and ask leave to sit to-morrow at ten o'clock A. M. The motion was agreed to. ADJOURnmENT. Mr. SEDGWICK. I move that the Convention do now adjourn. The motion was awgreefo. SEVENTIETH' DAY. THURSDAY, April 14, 1870. The Convention met at nine o'clock A. M., and was called to order by the President. The first amend m e nt was agreed to. The PRESIDENT. Th e question is upon concurr ence with the Committee of the Whole in the second amendment, viz.: by which sect ion two was stricken o ut. The Secretary read section two (stricken out), as follows: SECTION 2. The State may contract debts to supply c asual deficits or failures in reven ue, or to meet expenses not otherwise provided for; but the aggregat e amount o f s uch d ebt s, direct and contingent, whether contracted by virtue of one or more acts of the General Assembly, or at different periods of time, shall never exceed the sum of $250,000; and the money arising from the creation of such debts shall be applied to the purpose for which it was obtained, or to repay the debts so con tracted, and to no other purpose whatever. The second amendment, striking out section two, was agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the third amendment proposed by the Committee of the Whole, by which section three was stricken out. The Secretary read section three (stricken out), as follows: SEC. 3. In addition to the above limited power to contract debts, the State may contract debts to repel invasion, suppress insurrection or defend the State in war; but the money arising from the debts so contracted shall be applied to the purpose for which it was raised, or to repay such debts, and to no other purpose whatever. The third amendment, striking out section three, was agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the fourth amendment, by which a section was substituted for section four. The Secretary read section four (stricken out), as follows: SEC. 4. No county, city, municipal corporation, township, or school district, shall be allowed to become indebted in any manner or for any purpose, to an amount in the aggregate, exceeding five per centum on the value of the taxable property within such county, city, municipal corporation, township or school district; such taxable property to be ascertained by the last State and countv tax lists, previous to the incurring of such indlebtedness. Any county, city, municipal corporation, township, or school district, incurring any indebtedness as aforesaid, shall, before or at the time of doing so, provide for the collection of a direct annual tax, sufficient to pay the interest on such debt, as it falls due, and also to pay and discharge the principal thereof within ten years from the time of contracting the same. The Secretary read the substitute, prcposed by the Committee of the Whole, for section four of the report of the Committee on State, County, and Mgunicipal Indebtedness —it being section two of the report of the Committee of the Whole — as follows: SEC. 2. No county, city, mnunicipal corporation, township or school district, shall be allowed to become indebted in any manner, or for any purpose? to an amount in the aggregate exceeding five per centurn con the value of the taxable property within such county, city, municipal corporation, township or school district;* such taxable property to be ascertained by the last State and county tax lists, previous to the incurring of such indebtedness. Any county, city, municipal corporation, township or school district, incurring any in'debtedness as aforesaid, shall, before or at the time of doing so, provide for the collection of a direct annual tax sufficient to pay the interest on such debt, as it falls due, and also to pay and discharge the principal thereof within ten years from the time of contracting the same. This section shall not be so construed to prevent any county, city, municipal corporation, township or school district from issuing their bonds in compliance with any vote of the people providing thereior, which may have been had prior to the adoption of this Constitution. PRAYER. Prayer was offered by the Rev. Mr. Miller, of Springfield, as follows: Our Father, who artin Heaven, we thank Thee for Thy constant and patient care over us, Thine erring children, and for the manifold mercies which Thou bestowest upon us from day to day and year to year. We pray Thee for Thy blessing upon Thy servants, who have again assembled for the transaction of the important work for which they have been sent hither by their constituents. Mayest Thou grant unto them guidance and wisdom and counsel and knowledge from above, according as Thou hast taught us to ask. Is any man lack wisdom, let him ask of God who giveth liberally unto all men and upbraideth not, and it shall be given unto him. In all affairs, our Father, may we have Thy direction, and we pray Thee that Thou wouldst vouchsafe unto us that knowledge, that M isdom and that sincerity and earnestness of purpose which will enable us to transact all the important duties of life to the glory of Thy name and the furtherance of Thy kingdom. Let Thy blessing rest upon their families, we pray Thee; grant them health and peace and understanding, so that they may glorify Thee in all they do. Bless our country, bless the rulers of this land in every department, impart unto them wisdom for their position, so that we may live in peace at home and abroad, and that prosperity may prevail and righteousness be established in theland to the glory of Thy name, in Jesus Christ our Lord. Amen. READING OF THIE JOURNAL. The Secretary read the journal of the last day's proceedings. STATE, COUNTY AND MUNICIPAL INDEBT EDNESS. Mr. McCOY. Mr. President: The special order of to-day in Convention is the report of the Committee of the Whole on State, County and Municipal Indebtedness, and as there is an hour before the time will arrive for going into Committee of the Whole, I will move that we take the report from the table and pass upon it. The motion was agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon concurring in the amendments proposed by the Committee of the Whole. The first amendment upon which the question will be put, consisted in striking out the first section, and inserting a substitute. The Secretary will read the section that was stricken out. The Secretary read section one, (stricken out), as follows: SECTION 1. The credit of the State shall not, in any manner, be given or loaned to, or in aid of any individual, association or corporation; and the State shall never assume or become responsible for the debts or liabilities of any individual, association or corporation. The Secretary read the substitute for section one, adopted by the Committee of the Whole, as follows: SECTION 1. The State shall never pay, assume, or become responsible for the debts or liabilities of, or in any manner give, loan, or extend its credit to, or in aid of, any public or other corporation, association or individulal. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon concurring with the Committee of the Whole in Ahe first amendment. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION TaiuRSDAY, 1256 So the Convention (at five o'clock and thirty-five minutes) adjourned. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. he ing to cover only such indebtedness as should hereafter be incurred. If that is re- the construction of the article, I, for one, cannot support it, as I think that there is are many corporations in our State that an have already incurred greater indebtedut ness, in proportion to their taxable prophe erty, than they ought to have incurred; th and construing this as a permission to beeu come indebted to an extent of five per cent more, is what I, for one, am not will ing to permit. Representing some coras porations in that condition, I am prepared to shut down upon their present indebta edness. al- All I want to know is-and if it is not or clear in the minds of the committee, I desire it to be made clear-what is the er- true construction to be put upon the ar ticle? d I h a ve pr e pared an amendm ent which I desire to add to this section, as follows: nt This section shall not be construed as perm eitting any incr e a se of indebtednesss in any vuof the said corporations where such indebted. n ness shall already amount to five per cent. of r the taxable property of such corporations, to .~ be ascertained as aforesaid. n Now, sir, the amendment proposed here, is probably somewhat pertin ent to to the proposition made by the gentlem an ra- om Wabash [Mr. Sharp] Where corporations ar e a lread y up t o sy such a stan da rd of indebtedness, as, in the judgment of th is Convention, the y ought to be permit ted to got, this provime s ion should not be interpreted, as to e them, so as o a p to ermit an additio nal ing crease to that indebtedness; and it may have some effect upon the question of ;o whether the standard of five per cent., e in view of the situation of many corporan tions in this State, may not be too low, - and whether the proposition of the genLe tleman from Wabash [Mr. Sharp], to have :e some increase of that limitation, may not - be proper. Le So far as the city I represent here is It concerned, I think I am safe in stying, 1- that the judgment of our people is that our indebtedness ought not to be increase e ed, and we are willing to have a constitud tional provision that there shall be no * further increase of it. Our county is not indebted to the extent of the standard or , limitation prescribed here, and I think ; five per cent. would be an extent of int debtedness as great as the citizens of any atcounty would be willin~gto submit to. If any limitation is to be imposed, they e would be unwilling to have it permit an .addition of five per cent. to the existing indebtedness. I want that matter m~ade r clear, and I propose that amendment. The PRESIDENT. The amendment .of the gentleman from Sangamon [Mr. - Hay] is rather an independent proposir tion. than an amendment to the amend;ment of the gentlem~an from ~~abash v[M{r. Sharp], and the Chair will put the rquestion on the amnendment of the gentle man from Sangamon after taking the sense of the Convention on the amends ment of the gentleman from Wabash. Mr. HAIN:ES, of Cook. Mr. Presi. dent: Do I understand that the question -is on the amendment of the gentlem~an [from Wabash [Mr. Sharp? The PRESIDENT. Yes, sir. The Chair dots not regard the proposition of the gentleman from Sangamon [Mr. Hay] ,as an amendment to the amendment;* but . rather as an independent proposition. ~Mr. HAIlqES, of Cook. Mr. President.. The amendment offered by the gentleman s pal corporation and prop erty within to e bounds of such corpora tion. Mr. BUXTON. I will mak e it "the o in," ten nt ea d then, instead o"ther eof." , The PRESIDENT. The question I upon the amendment of the gentlem e from Clin to n [Mr. Buxton] to strik e o h all after the wo rd "property," in tl y fou rth line, t o the word "to," in the aifo M lin e, and i ns ert th e wor d "there in" in lie [- thereof. ;- The amendment was a gre ed to. ;- The Secret ary the n read section two, s amend e d, as follows: pSqnc. 2. No county, city, municipal corpor i, tion, township or school district, shall be E lowed to becom e indebted in any manner, for any purpose, to an amount in the aggr gate exceeding five per centum on the val of the taxable property therein, to be asce r tained by the last State and county tax lis t previous to the incurring of such indebter D ness. Any coun ty, city, municipal corporati township or s chool district, incurring any i: debtedness as aforesaid, shall, before or at t - time o f do ing so, pr ovide for the collection , a direct an n ual tax sufficient t o pay the inte West o n such debt, asit falls due, and also pay and discharge the pr incipal thereof withi twenty ye ars from the time of contractin the same. This section shall not be so construed t preven t anv county, city, municip al corporp tion, township or school d istrict from issuin their bond s i n compnlianc e with any vote the people providing therefor, which ma havebeen had prior to the ad op tion of th Constitution. Mr. SHARP. Stlr. President: I mov "to amend the section by striking out th word "five" in the third line and insertin L "seven." Mr. HAY. Mr. President: I wish t E present a question to gentlemen who ar conver sa nt w ith the intent of this sectiou two, as t o t he c o nstruction which they it t e n d wi n to put upon it with reference to on question. When this article w a s befor the Committee of the Whole before, I in quired of o ne or t wo members as to th construction which they put upon it; tha is to say, whether, if a corporation has a ready incur red, at this time, an indebted ness of fiv e per cent. on the taxable valu as ascertained by the mode provide~ her e, it is the intent of this article to per mit an ad ditional five per cent. to be cre ated under the provisions of this article or whether, if the indebtedness no~ existing is up to the measure provided, i is a limitation against any increase of thai indebtedness. I found the members of the committee differing in the construction of the pro vision, and reading the wholc article to gether, it is not clear what thle propel construction of it might be. SEC. 2. No county, city, municipal corporalion, township or school district, shall be al lowed to become indebted in any manner, or for any purpose, to an amount in the aggregate exceeding five per centum on the vfalue of the taxable property within such county, city, municipal corporation, township or school district, such taxable property to be asecrtained by the last State and county tax lists, prieviouls to the incurring of such indebtedness. Any county, city, municipal corporation, township or school district, incurring any indebtedness as aforesaid, shall, before or at the time of doing so, provide for the collection of adirect annual tax: sufficient to pay the interest on such debt, as it falls due, and also to pay and discharge the principal thereof within ten years from the time of conltracting the same. Now, the latter clause of this article, seeming to refer to indebtedness hereafer to be created, would favor the inlterpretat-ion of the whole article as intend The PRESIDENT. The qu estion i on concurring with the Committee of th W hol e in the proposed amendment. Mr. WASHBURN. I now move t( strike out the w ord "ten," in line e leven and inse rt "twenty," in l ieu thereof. d o not wis h to make an arsument on th subject. I have had conversation wit} gentlemen on this f lo or who are strongl] in favor of making this limitation or counties, and who have suggested a will inguess to extend the time of payment I hope the Convention will vote the ex tension of that time, because if counties choose to contract such indebtedness un der the limitation, and to issue their bonds the bonds will be much less saleable on E payment at ten years, than they will if the time is extended to twenty years; and while it can do no injury to any count~ to give them the increased time for the payment, it may be of much benefit t~ them. Mr. McCCOY. Mr. President: I wish to propose a more valuable amendment - to insert in the fifth line of section two between the words "district" and "such,' the words "the value of." The PRESIDENT. The Chair will entertain the amendment as soon as the pending question is disposed of. The question is on the motion of the gentle man from Williamson [Mr. Washburn] to strike out "ten," in eleventh line, and in sert "twenty." A division was ordered. The committee divided, whez, there being thirty in the affirmative and nine in the negative, the motion was agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is on the amendment of the gentleman from Whiteside [Mfr. McCoy], to insert the words "the value of," between "district" and "such," in the fifth line of the second sect ion. Mr. BUXTON. I had discovered the objections spoken of by the gentleman from Whiteside [Mr. McCoy]. I have an amendment to propose which will cure the defect, and at the same time avoid some tautology. i move to strike out from the word "within" in the fourth line of section two, to "property" in the fifth line, and insert in lieu thereof the word "thereof," so that the section would then read as follows: SEC. 2. No county, city, municipal corporation, township, or school district, shall be allowed to become indebted in any manner, or for any purpose, to an amount in the aggregate exceeding five per centurn on the value of the taxable property thereof, to be ascertained by the last State and county tax lists, previous to the incurring of such indebtedness. The-PR:ESIDENT. The question is upon the amendment of the gentleman from Clinton [Mr. Buxton] to the amendmaent of the gentleman from Whiteside [MIr. McCoy]. Mr. McCOY. Mr. President: I would prefer the amendment suggested bit the gentleman from Clinton [Mr. Buxton] to mny own. I will, therefore, withdraw my amendment. Mr. BENJAMIN. Mr. President: I would suggest that, if we adopt the amneldment of the gentleman from Clinton []~Ir. Buxton], we may give rise to this difficulty —that the municipality would be confined to five per cent. on the value of the property belonging to the munuicipality. There is a wide distinction between property belonging to a muni~ APP,IL 14) 1870. 1 2 5,' 1258 CONSTITUTIONAL ()OYETiOK THURSDAY, to adhere to language plain and explicit, than to use terms of doubtful meaning. I hope the amendment will be voted down. The question being upon the amendment offered by Mr. Medill, a division was ordered. The Convention divided, when, there being ten in the affirmative and twentyfive in the negative, the amendment was not agreed to. Mr. ELDREDGE. Mr. President: I move to amend section two by striking out the words "provided therefor," in the fourteenth line, and adding to the end of the f ifteenth line th e w ords, "in pursuance of any law providing therefor," so that the section w ill then read: This section shall not be so construed to prevent any county, city, municipal corporation, township or school district from i ssuin g their bonds in compli ance with any vote of the peopl e whic h may h ave be en had prior to the adoption of this Constitution, in pursuance of any law providing therefor. My object in offering this anlendment is simply this: when the question was under consideration in Committee of the Whole, it was suggested by the gentleman from Adams [Mr. Browning] that votes have been taken in some localities which were entirely unauthorized by any law, and he instanced a case in his own district-in the city of Quincy, I believe-where a vote had been taken not in pursuance of any law. I think it is manifestly against all policy for this Convention, by a constitutional enactment, to go on and legalize elections had, providing for subscriptions to the stock of railroad companies, and the issuing of bonds in pursuance of such unauthorized elections-which never had any legal basis to rest upon —without any law providing for them. I am told by the gentlelmnan from Cook [Mr. Medill] that in at least one instance a vote was taken in this State which would be legalized by the adoption of this section, in aid of a railroad being built in Missouri. It seems to me, that in justice to the people, we should provide that the issue of bonds (prior to the adoption of this Constitution) should only be legalized when had in pursuance of law. It certainly is not the province of this Convention to legalize the the unauthorized acts of municipalities. Mr. ALLEN, of Alexander. I am inclined to think that it would be better to leave this section as it is. It does not attempt to legalize any vote at ail. If there has been a vote taken not according to law, let it be tested by the law at the time. I do not think, by constitutional action, wte should seek to invalidate or validate it. The paragraph to which the amendment is offered, does not attempt to legalize any vote on the subject of issuing bonds, and I think we ought not to adopt the amendment of the honorable gentleman from LaSalle [Mr. Eldredge] by attempting to interfere with the matter one way or the other. Let any vote in the past stand or fall when tested by the existing law at the time it was taken. The PRESIDENT. The question is on the amendment of the gentleman from LaSalle [Mr. Eldredge]. A division was ordered. The Convention divided, when, there being twenty-three in the affirmative and twenty in the negative, the amendment was agreed to. from Wabash [Mfr. Sharp] is an important proposition, inasmuch as the article now under consideration clearly authorizes all of these different municipal corporations withln the State, from counties down, to make an indebtedness of five per cent. o,ver and above what they are already inde~bted.~ Q Now, the gentleman from Sangamon [Mr. Hay] has spoken as to Springfield. Representing, as I do in part, the county of C eook, I d e sire to speak in behalf of the city of Chicago. She has already a bonded debt of nearly eleven million dollars; and if we adopt this article as it i, with the amendment pending, she will beauthorized to contract a further debt of,. about twenty-two million dollars, mlaking in all about thirty-two million dollars. That is more than I am willing to authorize. In addition to that, we have the c:unty, which is liable to contract a debt equal to that, and the city of Chicago must pay seven-eighths of that, making altogether sixty million dollars of debt that may be piled up on that city. That is more than I am willing that she shall be authorized to contract. Now, sir, take this article as it reads, and it allows every political sub-division in the State to contract an additional indebtedness, over and above what she has already contracted, of five per cent. Our county first contracts a debt of five per cent. and then our sub-division another five per cent. That will allow ten per cent., which any of our smaller political sub-divisions are liable to be taxed for; ten per cent. in addition to what they already have. Let us take the county of Macoupin and see how she stands. She has built a magnificent court house-some, I believe, call it a State house. Her debt amounts, I believe, to something like a million and a half, if not more. Suppose we authorize her to contract an indebtedness of five per cent. over and above what she already has. Then we authorize the city of Carlinville to contract another indebtedaess of five per cent., and what is the property of the city of Carlinville worth? What is the property of the county of 31acoupin worth? It is worth almost nothing, I am told, on account of the large indebtedness which she has upon her; and, for one, as a delegate standing upon this floor, unless this can be amnended, so that the last four lines in the article shall be stricken out, I shall vote against it. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the amendment of the gentlemuan from Wabash [Mr.- Sharp]. The yeas and nays were ordered, and being taken, resulted —yeas, 12; nays, 42 — as follows:. So the amendment, offered by Mr. Sharp, was not agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The amendment proposed by the gentleman from Sangamon [Mr. Hay] will now be entertained. Mr. HAY. Mr. President Upon the suggestion of some of the friends of the measure, the amendment has been abbreviated so as to make it much shorter, and put it in better shape. The amendment is to insert, in the third line, after the word "amount," the words, "including existing indebtedness." The yeas and nays were ordered, and being taken, resulted —yeas 33, nays 21as follows: YEAS. Benjamin, Goodhue, Poage, Buxton, Haines of Cook,SeWgwick, Cameron, Harwood, Sherrill, Cary, Hay, Sutherland, Church, McCoy, Tincher, Cody, Medill, Tubbs, Dement, Merriam, Vandeventer, Eldredge, Moore, Wagner, Ellis, Necce, Wall, Fuller, Perley, Wells, Goodell, Peirce, Wilson-33. NAYS. Allen of Alex.,Cross, Ross, Abbott, English, Scholfield, Anderson, Forman, Sharp, Bayne, Gamble, Wait, Bowman, Hankins, Washburn, Bromwell, Hanna, Wendling, Craig, King, Whiting-21. l ABSENT., OR NOT VOTING. Allen of Crwfd,Fox, Robinson, Anthony, Haines ofL'ke,Snyder, Archer, Hart, Skinner, Atkins, Hayes, Springer, Billings, Hildrup, Truesdale, Brown, McDowell, Turner, Browning, Parker, Underwood, Bryan, Parks, Wheaton, Coolbaugh, Pillsbury, Wright Cummings, Rice, Mr. President-31. Emmerson, So the amendment offered by Mr. Hay was agreed to. The PRESIDENT. Are there further amendments to be proposed? Mr. MEDILL. Mr. President: I offer the following amendment: In lieu of the words "municipal corporation, township or school district," wherever they occur, insert the words "town, township or other municipality." Mr. CAMERON. Mr. President: Before the vote is taken upon the amendment proposed by my colleague, I would call attention to the fact that the change in the language exempts school districts from the operation of the article, and those districts may vote whatever amount they please of indebtedness. I consider the amendment a very unfortunate one, and one likely to defeat the object sought to be attained by the section. xMr. BUXTON. Is not a school district a municipality? Mr. CAMERON. I think it is not a municipality. At all events, it is better YEAS. Allen of Alex, English, Anderson, Forman, Bayne, Hanua, Bowman, King, !NAYS.. Gamble, Poage, Goodell, Scholficld, Goodhue, Sedgwick, Haines of CookSherrill Hankins, Sutherland, Harwood, Tincher, Hay, Tubbs, Mecoy, Vandeventer, Medill, Wagner, Merria, plait, Moore,:, Wall, CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENT'ION TiiUP.SDAY, 1258 Eldredge, Ellis, Fuller, Neece, Wells, Perlev' Wendling, . Peirce, Wilson-42. ABSENT, OR NOT VOTING. Allen, of Craw,Fox, Robinson, Anthony, Haines of Lake Snyder, Archer, Hart, Skinner, Atkin,,, Hayes, Springer, Billings Hildrup, Truesdale, Brown, 11, Turner, Browning, Parker, Underwood, Bryan, Parks, Wheaton, Coolbaugh, Pillsbury, Wright, CUMMiDgg, Rice Mr. Pr6iident-31. Emmerson, Ross, Sharp, Washburn Whiting-i-,. Abbott, - Benjamin, Bromwell, Buxton, Cameron, Cary, Church, Cody, Cra'-' 19, Cros8, Dement, APRIL 14,1870. DEBATES AXD POCEEDJNGS. 129 - I propose then, as far as I can, to hell t the people to grind their axes, so that they may cut down their taxes; and t wherever I can aid in bringing this ques tion of taxation to the people, where it ought to be, I will do so; and I am will ing to vote and work, here and else r where, that the people may have the t disposal of this matter in their own ; hands. a The PRESIDENT. The question is s upon the adoption of the amendment. Mr. DEMENT. Mr. President: I call t for a reading of the amendment. The PRESIDENT. The Secretary will read the amendment proposed by the gen tlieman from Wayne LMr. Hanna]. The Secretary read the amendment ; offered by Mr. Hanna, as follows: Add to section two the following: "Nor shall any such municipal corporation create any indebtedness exceeding one per centum on such taxable property, without submitting such question of greater indebted ness to the voters of such corporation, and approved thereby, which vote shall clearly specify the object for which such indebtedness shall be created." Mr. DEMENT. Mr. President: I will ask the gemtleman from Wayne [Mr. Hannla] whether this proposition would not embarrass counties and townships in the ordinary administration of their municipal duties? For instance, take a county where the accruing indebtedness from one year to another must necessarily in many instances, exceed one per cent. of the value of taxable property —the officers of the municipality would not have any material control over the accruing expenses which are created in administering the legal affairs of a county or municipality. And that indebtedness having exceeded one per cent. on the valuation of the property, will not this amendment embarrass the administration of the affairs of that county or corporation? Take the supervisors of a county; in the discharge of their duties required by law, they will incur indebtedness in many cases far exceeding one per cent. on the valuation of the property. I think this amendment would embrace the administration of the affairs of counties, townships and school districts. Mr. HAY. I would ask whether the employment of a school teacher in a school district would not involve, in many instances, an indebtedness of more than one per cent. on the taxable property 9 hMr. DEMENT. In almost all cases in every municipality or corporation, more than one per cent. indebtedness on the value of the property may accrue, and thereby an indebtedness be created, over which the officers really have no control, unless they stopped, as it were, the progress of the administration of the affairs of the county or municipality, in order to keep the expenses within onfe per cent., until they state the further indebtedness that will necessarily accrue, and ask the people to vote for the appropriation or the assessment of the additional taxation. I think the amendment ought not to be adopted. Mr. ELDREDGE. Mr. President: I call for the reading of the amendment. The Secretary read the amendment offered by Mr. Hanna, as follows: Add to section two the following: "Nor shall any such municipal corporation create any indebtedness exceeding one per centumr on such taxable property, without submitting su ch question of greater indebtedness to the voters of such corporation and approved thereby, which vote shall clearly specify the object for which such indebtedness shall be created." The question being on the amendment offered by Mr. Hanna, the yeas and nays were ordered, and, being taken, resulted -yeas, 20; nays, 32-as follows: M r. HANNA. M r. P resident: I de sire to offer an amendment, to come in al the end of section two. The Secretary read the amendment offered by Mr. Hanna, as follows: Add to section two the following: '-Nor shall any such municipal corporation create any indebtedness exceeding one per centum on such taxable property, without submitting such question of greater indebted ness to the voters of such corporation, and approved thereby, which vote shall clearly specify the object for which such indebtedness shall be created." Mr. HAY. Mr. President: I hope that amendment will not be ado-pted without due consideration, as I think it will subject counties, towns, and cities to very great and unprofitable annoyance. I think it is going quite far enough to put a limitation of five per cent. here, mak ing that the extent to which these corpo rations may incur indebtedness. I doubt very much whether this will serve any useful purpose; upon the contrary, it may work disadvantageously. I know there are instances in which the corporate authorities in this State have acted very badly, with reference to the creation of unwarranted indebtedness upon the counties and cities. As a general rule-and we should act upon general rules rather than exceptions -I doubt whether if the responsibility is cast off the proper authorities of a county or city, as to the character or necessity of the liabilities they are about to impose upon these corporations, it will be wise to throw the responsibility off their shoulders and refer it to the people. My own impression is that, as a general rule, it will be found that the authorities of the counties or cities will be more careful how they bring indebtedness upon the corporations than the people of these corporations themselves will be. This proposition, if adopted, will provide a mode by which parties who have axes to grind, may grind them through a vote of the people, when the authorities themselves feel disinclined to take the responsibility. It would afford a means of escaping responsibility in many instances. Improper liabilities would be created upon these corporations that would not be created if the matter were left to responsible officers. And as a general rule I think it would work badly. I know there have been instances in which large liabilities have been incurred, where by a vote of the people they never would have been incurred. While such exceptions do exist, I apprehend that as a general rule, many ill-judged and improper liabilities and expenses would be foisted upon counties and cities, under the mode proposed in this amendment, which would not otherwise be created. And, sir, I hope it will not be adopted without due consideration. -Mr. WASHBURN. Mr. President. I do not knots how many mem-bers here may have "axes to grind."' But, I am of the opinlion that the people have some "axes to grinld,"' for the special purposte of nutting down the high taxes; and I propose to help the people to grind them. The only possible chance of putting a check upon the exorbitant taxation that is now running riot and unchecked, and which absorbs all the surplus of the labor and industry of the country, is to bring the question home to the people themselves to decide. YEAS. Allen of Alex.,Haines of Cook Ross, Anderson, Hanna, SharD, Bowman, Harwood, Tubbs, Bromwell, King, Washburn, Buxton, Moore, Wendling, Ellis, Neece, Wilson-20. Fuller, Peirce, t i 1 c e t e 0 s i a e APRIL 14, 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 12 59 NAYS. Forman Gamble Goodell, Goodhue, Hankins, Hay, Hildrup, McCoy, Medill, IMerriam, Poage, Abbott, Bayne, BeDjamin, Cameron, Cary, Church, Cody, Craig, Cross. Dement' Eldredge, Scholfield, Sedgwick, Sherrill, Sutherland, Tincher, Wagner, Wait Wall, Wells'Whiting —32. ABSENT, OR NOT VOTLNG. Allen of Crfd.,English, Robinson, Anthony, Fox, Snyder, ,krcher, Haines of LakeSkin-ner, Atkins, Hart, Springer, Billing's, Hayes, Truesdale, Brown, McDowell, Turner, Browning, Parker, Underwood, Bryan, Parks, Vandeventer, Coolba-ugh, Perley, Wheaton, cummidg,s, Pillsbury, Wright, Emmerson, Rice, Mr. President-33. So the amendment offered by Mr. Hanna was not agreed to. Mr. WHITING. Mr. President: I rise rather to make an inquiry as to what construction shall be placed upon one part of this report. In the eighth line Any indebtedness as aforesaid shall, before or at the time of doing so, provide for the collection of.9. direct annual tax sufflcient to pay the interest on such debt, as it falls due, and also to pay and discharge the principal thereof witliln-twenty years. it will often happen that the interest or some portion of;it, and perhaps some portion of the principal, will otherwise be provided for. Will this mandatory language make it necessary to levy the tax named? It has suggested itself to my mind that we mav frequently sell one school property for perhaps enough, or a part of enough, to build another school-house. It might be sold upon credit, and it would be necessary to issue bonds for the new house, but some portion of the principal and interest would be provided for in the sale of the old property. I only suggest it to these legal gentlemen, to know whether this would be construed, that this tax should be levied in such a case as that? Under the supposition it would not be so construed, I shall not move any amendment. Air. HINES, of Cook. Mr. President: If it is in order, I move to strike out lines twelve, thirteen, fourteen and -fifteen. The motion was not agreed to. Mr. WENDLING. Mr. President.- It seems to me there should be a slight verbal alteration inthe twelfth line, It may be a misprint; but it seems to me it would be better to strike out the word "so;" and I make that motion. The motion was agreed to. Mr. ROSS. Alr. President: A-s I un 0 COSTIT UTIOAL COYETJON THURSDAY, derstand the manner in which this second section has been amended, by the amendment proposed by the gentleman from Sangamon [Mr. Hay], it absolutely prohibits the incurring of any indebtedness where the indebtedness is already five per cent. I think it will have the effect to very much embarrass some municipalities, where there has been a debt contracted in a township in which the school districb is situated. I understand they are not authorized to make any additional debt whatever. I believe it would be found very embarrassing and very distasteful to the people; and I desire, in order to place myself right upon that question, to move to lay the repoit upon the table. Mr. HAY. Mr. President: I wish to correct a misapprehension of the gentleman from Fulton [Mr. Ross]. The reading of the section referred to, will show the gentleman that each of these corporations may incur indebtedness to that extent. The county may incur an in debtedness of five per cent.; the township may incur an indebtedness to the extent of five per cent.; each school district to the extent of five per cent; and your town or city, as a corporation, may incur an indebtedness to that extent; and I submit that that is enough. Mr. ROSS. Mr. President: I do not understand the construction of this section as the gentleman does. Mr. [TAY. "The aggregate" refers to the aggregate amount of indebtedness. Mr. MEDILL. Mr. President: This five per cent. may be on the full cash value of the property of the State whenever the Legislature shall decide to assess upon a cash valuation. At present, propertv is assessed upon a fictitious value. The county of Fulton is worth, at a fair cash price, at least four times what it is assessed at. I have made a careful computation of this m-atter, and find that under the five per cent. provision, oa a fair cash value of the property of the State, the people can go in debt to an aggregate of one hundred an' seventy-five million dollars, and it does seem to me that is enough to satisfy the longing of any member to get in debt, and acquire wealth thereby. Mr. ROSS. Mr. President: If our property is assessed at one-fourth of its value, the actual indebtedness we may incur is about one and one-fourth per cent., instead of five per cent. The motion of Mr. Ross to lay the report upon the table, was not agreed to. The PR:ESI3DENT. The question is upon concurring with the report of the Committee of the Whole, as amended by the Convention. The yeas and nays were ordered, and being taken, resulted —yeas, 385 nays, 12 — as follows. REVENUE. The PRESIDENT. The hour has arrived fixed for the special order-the considerati)n of the revenue article in Committee of the Whole. If there is no objection, the Convention will now be de clared in Committee of the Whole to consider that article. So the Convention, as in Committee of the Whole (Mr. Sedgwick in the chair), resumed the consideration of the report of the Committee upon Revenue. The CHAIRMAN. The business be fore the committee is the further consid eration of the revenue article. The question is upon the second section, which the Clerk will read. The Clerk read section two of the report of the Committee upon Revenue, as follows: SEc. 2. The General Assembly shall provide such further revenu as may be needful, by levying a tax, by valuation, so that every per son and corporation shall pay a tax in proportion to the value of his or her propertysuch value to be ascertained by some person or persons, to be elected or appointed in such manner as the General Assembly shall direct, and not otherwise; but the General Assembly shall have power to tax peddlers, auctioneers, d brokers, hawkers, merchants, commission merchants, showmen, jugglers, inn-keepers, grocery-keepers, toll-bridges, ferries, insurance, telegraph and express interests or business, venders of patents, and persons using and exercising franchises and privileges, in such manner as it shall, from time to time, direct by general law, uniform as to the class upon which it operates. Mr. HAINES, of Cook. Mr. Chairman: I desire to prop ose an am endment, which I will send up to the Clerk. The Clerk read the amendment offered by Mr. Haines, of Cook, as follows: Insert after the word "otherwise," in the fifth line, the following; "But no one species of property from which a tax may be collected shall be taxed higher than other property of equal value. Mr. HAINES, of Cook. Mr. Chairman: That is the language of the Constitution of the State of New York, and of various other State Constitutions in the Union, treating upon the subject of revenue. I wish that my colleague from Cook [Mr. Coolbaugh] were here whilst we are considering the question, for he could tell us how in his own person and property, a great iniquity is now being put upon him, and other men like him-all under the present Constitution of the State: how ill our county, we are being assessed upon one kind of property, at thirty-three cents, agd upon another kind at onle hundred cents, both being of the same value, under the present Constitution, which declares that taxes shall be equal. And upon this, I understand that a decision has already been rendered by the supreme court of this State, upon a case like that I have referred to, coming down from out co unty, where one piece of propert.y was taxed at its full value, while other property was being taxed at much less —in regard to which the supreme court declared that there was no remedy, and that if it was taxed at full value the owner must stand it. Now, what I desire is to insert in our Constitution, and in this article, a clause that shall define the duty of the assessor. The supreme court has virtually decided that the assessor is, himself, the authority who shall fix the value of property for taxation, both real and personal, and if he chooses to assess John Jones at one rate and John Smith at another, there is no remedy in the courts. Allen of Cr'fd.,Fox, Snyder, Anthony, Haines of Lake,Skinner, Archer, Hart, Spri nger, Atkins, Hayes, Truesdale, Billings, King, Turner, Brown, McDowell, Underwood, Browning, Merriam, Vandeventer, Bryan, Parker, Wait, Coolbaugh, Parks, Wheaton, Cummings, Pillsbury, Wright, Emmerson, Rice, Mr. President-35. English, Robinson, So the report of the Committee of the Whole, as amended by the Convention, was agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question recurs o n the adoption of the first s ection, as reported by the Committee of the Whole. If no objection is made, it will be declared adopted. The question is now on the second section of the article, as reported by the Committee of the Whole, and amended by the Convention. It will be declared adopted. ORDER OF BUSINESS. tMr. DEMENT. In order to bring the subject up at some specified period, I move to take up the report of the Committee upon the Right of Suffrage, for the purpose of making it the order for some time thatwe may agree upon. I would have it considered immediately after the present order of the day. Mr. McCOY. I will ask the gentleman from Lee [Mr. Dement] to withdraw his motion for a moment, while I move the article just passed be referred to the Committee cn Revision and Adjustment. Mr. DEMENT. Certainly. The PRESIDENT. The question is on referring the article just passed to the Committee on Revision and Adjustment. The motion was agreed to. Mr. DEMENT. I now renew my motion to take up the report of the Committee upon the Right of Suffrage. The PRESIDENT. The Chair will state that a special order has been made by the Convention. What disposition will be made of that order? Mr. SEDGWICK. I understood the gentleman from Lee [Mr. Dement] asked that the suffrage question be taken up after the special order is disposed of. Mr. DEMENT. Mr. President: I suppose that the article is on the table, and that the proper motion would be to take it from the table and dispose of it. I intended to propose that it be considered immediately after the order of the day, or subject now under consideration is disposed of. I move that the report of the Committee on Suffrage be considered after the present order is disposed of. The motion was agreed to. Benjamin, ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ R G H G a m l e Pe rc,N o, w h t I e ir i o n er n u RIGHT OF SUFFRAGE. Mr. DEMENT. Mr. President: I now move that the report of the Committee upon the rigcht of Suffrage be made the special order in Committee of the Whole, immediately after the report of Committee upon Revenue is disposed of by the committee. The motion was agreed to. YEAS. Fuller, Perley, Gamble, Peirce, Goodell, Poage, Goodhue, Sedgwick, Haines of Co'k,Sherrill, Hankins, Sutherland, Harwood, Tincher, Hay, Tubbs, Hildrup, Wagner, McCoy, Wall, Medill, Wells, Moore, Whiting-38. Neece, CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION THURS-D.&Y, 1260 NAYS. Allen of Alex.,Forman, Anderson, - Hanna, Bayne, Ross, Bowman, Scholfield, Sharp, Washburn, Wendling, Wilson-12. ABSENT, OR NOT VOTING. Abbott, Benjamin, Bromwell, Buxton, Cameron, Cary, Cliurch, - Cody, craigi Cross, D3ment, Eldredge, Ellis, APL 14, 1870. D13ATS AD POCt)IYGS. 121 of the present Constitution are adequate to meet this class of Mr. GOODHUE. Mr. Chairman: I rise to a point of order, that (of course it has a personal application in this partic ular instance, but it is not made with special reference to the gentleman from Cook [Mr. Haines]) a rule was adopted yesterday, that no member should be al lowed to speak more than once on one question. The CHAIRMAN. The point of order is well taken. Mr. DEMENT. Mr. Chairman: I propose t6 make a point here which must necessarily arise under the construction which appears to be given to this rule by the gentleman from Will [Mr. Good hue]. I do not consider, sir, that when a gen tleeman has addressed the Convention on the main question he is thereby preclud ed from making an argument or speech in support of or in opposition to any amendment that may be offered to the main subject. I consider such an amend ment as a new question, and understand that every gentleman has a right to speak upon it, whether he has spoken upon the main question or not, or upon any new proposition. The CHAIRMAN. When such a ques tion properly arises the Chair will decide it. Mr. BUXTON. Mr Chairman: I move to amend the amendment by add ing the words "and so forth." This will make a new question, and the gentleman from Cook [Mr. Haines] will be in order for another speech. [Laughter]. Mr. VANDEVENTER. Mr. Chair man: I simply wish to correct the gentleman from Cook [Mr. Haines] in regard to the decision of the supreme court, on the question he is talking about. The supreme court have decided just ex actly the reverse of what he states. In two or three cases which recently came up, where assessors had assessed railroad corporations at their full value, aDd had not assessed the balance of the property in the county at the same value, the supreme court refused to sus tai a the assessment-said that the railroad did have a remedy, just the same as upon any other question, and that the assessors could not, under the Constitution, assess the property of a railroad corporation at its full value, and the balance of the property at one half or one-third of its value. These decisions will be found to be diametrically opposed to that which the gentleman has given. Mr. CODY. Mr. Chairman: I would inquire of the gentleman from Brown [Mr. Vandeventer] if there has not beenm a decision like that referred to by the gentleman from Cook [Mr. Haines], in regard to the value of personal property -stock in bank, or something of that kind. The decisions you refer to, were in regard to real estate only, were they not? Mr. HAINES, of Cook. Mr. Chairman: I would like to inquire whether it is not a fact, that this article leaves the valuing of the property within the breast of the assessor? It says that the value shall be ascertained by some person or persons, to be elected or appointed in such mann er as the General Assembly shall direct, etc. mle will ask:he gentleman if that is not the What are the facts? The national banks in Cook county have all been assessed at the full value of their capital stock, when it is known that all other property is as sessed at one third of its value. And it is high time, if the Constitution we are now living under, is so a Abiguus that it cannot be understood, that we should have one that can be understood. I desire, therefore, that this language which I have proposed, should be insert ed. It is that of the New York Constitu tion, and of various other State Constitu tions. It is no more than right, sir, and just just to those who are to pay the taxes, that one should not be made to pay more in proportion than another. Therefore, I move the amendment. 3Mr. HA\-. Mr. Chairman: I doubt whether we will much improve the pro vision of this section. The words here are not new. The pro vision is the same that has existed in our Constitution heretofore. The provision says: The General Assembly shall provide such further revenue as may be needful, by levying a tax, by valuation, so that every person and corporation shall pay a tax in proportion to the value of his or her property. Language could not be more explicit, clear and express in its requirements in providing fbr the levying or assessing of a tax, so that every person shali pay a tax in proportion to the value of his or her property. The principle of taxation here embodied has, I understand, worked well heretotore in our experience. There have been errors of administration, and will continue to be all the time, under any constitutional provision or any statutory enactment we may create, in carrying out the provisions of the Constitution. It will be impossible to correct mere errors in the administration of the Constitution and laws by any provisions in the Consti tution. And the very complaint which the gentleman has made here has been passed upon under the existing Constitu tion. already, by our supreme court. Unider the protection provided by this article, our supreme court has already declared, in a case in which the facts were precisely the same as.that ipstanced by the gentleman from Cook [Mr. Haines], that where an assessor had established it as a rule ill the valuation of property in his county, to assess at one-third its value, he hadc no right to depart from that rule in the valuation of any species of property; lbut that this principle of uniformity of valuation established in the Constitution required such an assessment, and if the assessor departed from it, his assessmerit was liable to correction in the courts. What more could they do? lThe courts have already decidedl that under the provisions of the existing C:onstitution this inequality is provided for — that parties will be protected against the errors or partiality of assessors in assessing one species of property by one rule and another species by another rule. We need only invoke the Constitution as it exists, and as it has been interpreted by our supraeme court. It is not necessary to change or alter the language of the Constitution as it exists. It is a protection ample and sufficient a-gainlst all such errors as the gentleman complains of, as our court has expressly decided. M~r. HAINES, of Cook. Mr. Chairman: The gentleman says the provisions:S IDF,13ATES AND PROCEEDINGS. APRIL 14, 1870. 1261 clear language of the section under con sideration? Mr. VANDEVENTER.'Undoubtedly it is; but it is no more specific than the statutes of the State of Illinois, to-day, in regard to that matter; but the decision is that, under the existing statutes, the assessment shall be made by the assessor, and that if he assesses one man's property at one-half its value, he canrot assess an other man's property at its full value. His assessments must be uniform. And I will reply to the gentleman fur ther, by saying that this report is a ver batim copy of the present Constitution under which these decisions were made. Mr. HNINES, of Cook. Mr. Chair man: I will only say this in answer to the gentleman, that, as to personal prop ert,y in our city, that all the national banks are payitig their taxes, having been advised by counsel that they must be paid, notwithstanding they have been taxed upon their full value; and the rea son I offer. this ai-neudment is that we shall so word the Constitution that there shall be no mistake about it. What objection is there to putting in a half a dozen words that will make it clear that one species of property shall be taxed equal only to another species of property of the same value? Why should personal property pay a full value, and real estate only a partial value? .1 Mr. HKNNA. I would ask the gentle,man if that is not in already? Mr. HA.INES, of Cook. No, sir. The ol,l Constitution says the General Assembly shall provide f(.)r levying a tax by valuation, so that every person or corporation shall pay a tax in proportion to -the value of his or her property. This is the same as the old Constitution. It does not differ from this, and yet we are paying on two values, and, unless we fix it in this Constitution in the manner that I propose, we will. have inni-tmerable difficulties in this State, until we amend the Constitution. Mr. WHI'FING. Mr. Chairman: I wisl-l to suggest to the gentleman from Cook [Mr. Haines], that in our county we have had a little experience in precisely the point that he is speaking about DOW. We assessed the railroads, we thought, just as we had assessed other property, but the railroads claimed differ 126w COXSTITUTJOXAL CONYETION TBURSDAY, be absolutely, at all times, and under all all classes of property, throughout the circumstances, avoided. The difficulty State, certainly, I would be in favor of could not always be avoided, from the his proposition, if it would remove any fact that even though there were a clause doubt; but, in my judgment, the lanin the Constitution, precisely correspond- guage is clear, and the objects sought are ing to the one that he desires, there must as fully secured by the language in this be some method devised, some method clause, as they would be by the language pointed out by the Constitution for as- suggested by him. certaining the value of every man's prop- The CHAIRMAN. The question is erty, and the value of the property of upon the amendment offered by the gerevery corporation. tieman from Cook [Mr. Haines]. Now, in every such case the person The Clerk read tile amendment offered charged with the responsibility of making by Mr. Haines, of Cook, as follows: the assessments, might make a mistake, Insert after the word "otherwise" in the and might assess the property of one fifth line, the following: "But no one species party higher than it ought to be assessed, of property from which a tax may be col and the property of another party lower lected shall be taxed higher than other propand the property of another party lower erty of equal value." hge hnohrpo-des akr,acinesadta ls than it ought to be assessed. How can this be remedied? In my The amendment was not agreed to. judgment, it is absolutely beyond reme- Mr. WAIT. Mr. Chairman: I offer the dy; and the phraseology which the gen- following amendment: tieman seeks to adopt in our Constitution Strike out of the sixth and seventh lines would not remove a difficulty of this the words "brokers, merchants, commission character. The language in this clause merchants and inn-keepers." is clear and specific. It recognizes the It seems by this section that there are 9certain trades or business made subject to basis for taxation; recognizes it clearly certain trades or business made subject to a and justly, in my judgment. Whenever special taxation. For instance, that of a broker. Is there any reason why he should any man is charged with the responsibil- be s t an eas he sou ity of rendering a final decision, there is subject to a tax because he is a broker? ity of rendering a final decision, there is Hsbsns eiiaeoe h o no appeal from it. There is no method H business a legitimate one. Why not od ued or by which it can be set aside; and even if t lude bankers Is this introduced forthe there were, we would not avoid the diffi purpose of letting bankers have the t a f bin culty, because if we removed that ques culty, because if we removed that ques entire control of that class of business? tion to some other point, refer it to some Merchants, also, are made liable to speother party, refer it to some other judica: cial taxation. Why should a merchant ture, we only remove the question one be taxed because he is a merchant? Is step further, and meet the very same his business not as necessary to society and difficulty —the difficulty of obtaining the prosperity of the country as any a decision entirely correct under all cir- other class of business? On account of cumstances. taxing the merchant for the privilege of So the gentleman will see that my point being a merchant, the goods he sells must is this: That no sort of phraseology be sold at a higher price, so that the man that can be adopted in the Constitution who buys has to pay the tax. of a State can avoid that difficulty. The Why not make farmers as well as merresponsibility must be left somewhere. chants liable to a special tax, because Some authority must be prescribed and they assume farming as their business? fixed in some person or persons, for de- No man for a moment would claim the termining the value of property, and as- right to tax a farmer as a farmer. If a sessing the tax upon it; and when that merchant's business is useful to society, is done, by the authority finally charged why do you select it out, and tax a man with this responsibility, it is final, and for the right to carry on that kind of there is no appeal from it. business? Even though gentlemen may go outside And I find, also, included in this report, of such decision, and say that the assess- "inn keepers and grocery keepers." I do ment is unfair and unjust, be satisfied of not know that I understand fully what is that fact in their own minds, and refer it meant by grocery-keeper, as here used; but to a justice of the peace or a jury of their if it means a man who deals in groceries, own neighbors, and they be satisfied of West India goods, those things are the point, still it has already been decid among the necessities of life, and I can ed by the authority charged with the re- see no reason for such discrimination. sponsibiLity of making the decision, un- Why should we select these things for a der the Constitution, and it is presumed special taxation, and thus array a great to be right, and must be final. influence in this State against the adop Why, it seems to me that the idea of tion of this Constitution? May I not the gentleman from Cook [Mr. Haines], say justly, that the merchants, brokers, applied to other matters, would show and inn keepers of this State are a great how strange and extraordinary are his power? Let them all combine against ideas. We have laws upon our statute this Constitution for the reason that their books against larceny. We say we have business has been made liable to a special laws preventing larceny. Do they prevent tax, and will not they have a great infiuit? We have laws recognizing the fact ence in defeating the Constitution, and that none but the guilty shall be punish- should it not be expected for such an uned, and that the innocent shall go free, just discrimination? but that rule is constantly being reversed, I would like to hear a reason for taxing from the fact that wherever there is a set them for the privilege of carrying on of men charged with the responsibility such a business. Why not tax lawyers beof deciding any question, their decision cause they are lawyers? Are they more mar be right or may be wrong, and we useful than merchants? Why not docnever can avoid the necessity of meeting tors? Why not tax ministers because that difficulty. they are ministers? Does not the same Wow then, if there were any doubt reason apply? I cannot see why the about the phraseology of this clause, as parties selected for taxation should be so to its justice, its propriety or its effect in taxed because they assume that kind of securing impartial and fair assessments of business for a livelihood. Section three provides SEC. 3. The specification of the objects and subjects of taxation shall not deprive the General Assembly of the power to require other subjects or objects to be taxed, in such manner as may be consistent with the principles of taxation fixed in this Constitution Which cov ers the case, wit hout going int o invidious distinctions. Mr. DELMENT. Mr. Chairman: I suppose the committee took a very proper and practical view of the circumstances that occur in our cities and communities, when they incorporated these words granting the power to the Legislature to tax these particular occupations. I suppose it was something like this, that peddlers, hawkers, auctioneers and that class of merchants come into counties with their goods, after the assessment, and sell them in competition with our regular local permanent merchants. I do not regard the authority given to the Legislature to tax this class of business mleD, as invidious at all towards them. The peddler may come into our towns and cities with his goods that he has obtained in some city at auction, or perhaps, after there has been a large fire among the dry goods houses, set up his stand or rent some cheap room in the town and drive out of the trade, for the time being, the regular merchants, by selling his cheaply obtained goods at a rate below regular and moderate prices, and if permitted to do that at all, these persons should be taxed for this special privilege they sometimes enjoy. I do hope that this committee may not be so invidious to our permanent business men as to strike these words out of the section. Mr. CODY. Mr. Chairman: I understand the object of this section to be, to provide that those kinds of property which are not local or permanent, so that they may be readily reached for taxation, may pay their just proportion of the revenue; and also, that certain classes of business which it has always been deemed proper to tax, by licenses, should be made to contribute to the public expenses. Its language indicates this to be its object: But the General Assembly shall have power to tax peddlers, auctioneers, brokers, hawkers, merchants, commission merchants, showmen, jugglers, inn-keepers, grocery-keepers, tollbridges, ferries, insurance, telegraph and expl'0ss interests or business, venders of patents, etc. Now, if this is the object, it seems to me merchants should be left out of this list. I do not know the extent of the amend: mnent of the gentleman from H~enry [Mr. Wait.] The CHAIRMAN. Thle Clerk will read the amendment. The Clerk read the am~endment offered by Mr. Wait, as follows: Strike out of the sixth anld seventh lines the words "brokers,"' "merchants,") "commaission merchants"t and "inn-keepers."7 Mr. CODY. Mr. Chairman: I think the word "mzerchants" should be stricken out. I wish to add a word uponl what was said by the gentleman from Lee [Mr. Dement.]l So far as these transient dealers are concerned, under the law 3$ it stands at present, they are taxed, and there is no necessity of any constitutional provision on that subject. It is the duty of the county clerk to fix a valuation upon such property, and the owners are to be taxed CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION Tii LTRSDAYI 1262 APRIL 1~~~~~~~ 1870. DEBATES Ai~~~~~~~~~~~~~~1) I'ROCEEDIXGS. 1263~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Mr. WAIT. Mr. Chairman: I accept the amendment. As I stated, I was not aware of the meaning of the term "gro cery-keeper." The question being on the amendment offered by Mr. Wait, it was not agreed to. Mr. WHITING. Mr. Chairman: I propose to insert in the eighth line, per lhaps after the words "venders of patents," "dogs." I propose to insert "dogs" as the subject of special taxation. The ag ricultural interest of the State feel dogs to be a great nuisance, and efforts have been made on several occasions to enforce a dog law; but the courts have nullified t h e m o n the ground that the dogs were not taxed according to their value. There was a specific tax levied upon them, and it was held to be unconstitutional. I do not know that it is necessary to make any further remarks in regard to this matter. I suppose it will be accepted, perhaps without opposition. I suppose it is very well understood that the agricultural interests very much need protection for their flocks, that they need some law against dogs more than they do a law against wolves, and that heretofore the courts have not allowed an efficient dog law. Therefore, I think it is proper that "dogs" should be inserted here. Mr. BAYNE. Mr. Chairman: I heartily indorse the amendment of my colleague from Bureau [Mr. Whiting]. 1, myself am a farmer. During my stay here, the dogs in one night killed some thirty sheep for me, and two years ago this spring, in my neighborhood, a hundred were killed at one time; among which werethirty-five of my own. We ought to do something to secure protection to our flocks. Men keep useless dogs, and they run at large. Poor men frequently have two or three of no consequence to themselves or to anybody else, running at large, and destroying their neighbor's flocks; and if they must have dogs they ought to be made to pay a tax on them. Dogs are a nuisance at best, and I hope the amendment will prevail. Mr. PERLEY. Mr. Chairman: I would inquire of the gentleman from Bureau [Mr. Whiting] where he inserts the word "dogs,"-after what word in the eighth line? a i r e t s t Mr. WHITING. I am indifferent as to where it is inserted. It has been suggested to me that it should be "owners of dogs," and that is the way in which I have expressed it, and I am indifferent as to where it is placed. If there is any doubt on this matter, I wish to say a few words further as to the demand for this provision. There are in the State of Illinois nearly half a million of dogs. There is about one million dollar's worth of wool raised per year. iHeretofore, this wool has principally been produced from large flocks, where the owners could afford to keep a shepherd for their sheep. But that practice is now going out of use, and hereafter the flocks of the State will generally be small ones. In many cases the farmers can about as well as not keep from twenty to fifty or one hundred, but the dogs are such an intolerable nuisance that they are unable to do so unless they have shepherds for them, and small flocks of course will not bear that expense. This provision does not define what the nature of the dog law shall be. It AP-RIL 14-3 1870. DEBATES AINI) PROCEEDINGS. 1263 for the number of months in the year in which they are in business in the locality; the only difference between them and other dealers being that they may be so assessed at other times in the year than when the general assessment is made. Mr. DE -MENT. Mr. Chairman: The law the gentleman speaks of might be changed, as it has no constitutional approbation. It should be so flxed in the fundamental law as not to be subject to repeal, as it might be, if the Convention, by striking this out, should indicate that ,such a law is unnecessary. Mr. CODY. Mr. Chairman: The Constitution should be but a limitation on the Legislature. In this clause we are making an exception in relation to particular species of property, and special kinds of business, permitting them to be taxed differently from other property, which is to be taxed uniformly. The object of this provision is to enable the Legislature to make a special rule in reference to these particular ob ects and subjects of taxation. Therefore, I am opposed to including in the list people engaged in mercantile business. They pay a tax on their property as regularly as any others in the State. They are assessed for the full value of their property, and there should be no discrimination against them, as in the case of auctioneers and peddlers and other classes, which, for various reasons, might escape taxation. unless compelled to pay a special tax or license. ,Nlr.,,GOODELL. Mr. Chairman: This is the provision we have had in the old Constitution. I believe the merchants have never complained under its operation. I Mr. CODY. Mav I ask if that proviSIOD, as far as merchants are concerned, has Dot been a dead letter, and if any law has ever been passed under it as to merchants? Mr. GOODELL. I think there has. I will explain. Under this provision that all property shall be taxed in proportion to its valuation, a merchant, in the spring season when, the assessors levy the tax, has a stock that has usually run down to half of what its average is throuohout the year. That is why merchants were included in this list, that the Legislature may pass a law like this; that the mer a r e lue leaves that matter to the Legislature. I ask in behalf of the agricultural interests of the State that such words may be inserted that such a law may be availed of when found necessary and expedient. Mr. FULLER. Will the gentleman from Bureau [Mr. Whiting] modify his amendment so that it shall read "keepers of dogs," instead of " owners?" Mr. WHITING. I think it will be better so to inodiv. Mr. McCOY. Mr. Chairman: I wish to ask the gentleman whether it would not be best to imdoe a fl-ne, for the purpose of keeping dogs from killing sheep? Mr. WHITING. If that shall be thought to be the best kind of a dog law, of course that will answer. I am not here to define the nature of the law. I only propose the doors shall be left open by which we can have some proper law. Mr. HAINES, of Cook. Why not insert owners of dogs, also? Mr. WHITING. Owners and keepers? -Mr. HAINES, of Lake. Yes, sir. Mr. WHITING. Very well. The question being upon the motion of Mr. Whiting to insert, in the eighth line the wc-rds, "owners and keepers of dogs," a division was ordered. The committee divided; when, there being twenty-six in the affirmative and fifteen in the negative, the amendment was agreed to. Mr. GOODHUE. Would it now be in order to make a speech against dogs? The-CHAIR'NIAN. It would not be in order. The question is upon the adoption of section two as amended' Mr. GAMBLE. Mr. Chairman: I move to amend by striking out "grocery keeper," and insert the word "doggeries." (Laughter). A division was ordered. The committee divided, when the amendment was not agreed to. Mr. WENDLING. Mr. Chairman: There seems to be some doubt with regard to the exact meaning of the words "grocery keepers," and in order to clear awav all doubt, I move to insert "retailers f spirituous and vinous liquors." Mr. VANDEVENTER. Mr. Chairmai,i: I do not know much about groceries, but I think the word "grocery," or ,,grocery keepers," is sufficiently clear to answer all practical purposes. It is the word that has been in our statutes for a 12(31 CONTITtlTIOXAL COTIOX THURSDAY, insg land across or along which a highway r runs, either owns the whole fee of the road or to its centre. A member of this Convention hasjust said to me that he is paying taxes yearly on twenty acres of valuable land, through his farm, which is used by the public for the purpose of highways. There seems to be an injustice in this matter, and I ask attention to it, in the interest of farmers and real estate owners, who feel that it works a wrong against them. I presume there will be no objection on the part of the Convention to inserting these words. I have used the language on the suggestion of a very eminent legal gentleman of this Convention, with a view of excluding any possible construction of the amendment that would exempt railroads from taxation. Mr. HAY. I doubt whether that will be a useful amendment. I think it would introduce great annoyance and trouble in the assessment of property, and that really it would effect no useful object whatever. Is it not true that in the assessment of a farm the assessor takes into account the value of the property with the incumbrance upon it? If the road makes the land much less valuable, the assessor takes that into consideration, and assesses the property with reference to the injury sustained by the property on account of the incumbrance on the road, and the land owner gets the benefit, iu the way of a reduction of the assessment, in consequence of that incumbrance on the land, It would necessitate a particular description, either of the land or of a special part of it, in every case of a road across * the land. It would create uncertainty in the description of property-one could not sell property in such a way as that anybody would care for a tax title, described as half the real estate in this State would be described under such a law as this-and it could effect no valuable end wehatever. If a road runs upon a man's property, it reduces the value of his property, and he is not made to pay any more on account of the road. This amendment would introduce inconceivable embarrassment and trouble, and greatly enhance the cost of the assessment of property and of advertising it. Mr. DEMENT. Mr. Chairman: Without materially disagreeing with the gentleman from Sangamon [Mr, Hay], I cannot conceive where any injustice to the public would be committed by inserting the proposed amendment. It must be known to members upon the floor that there is not uniformity throughout the State in counties and townships in assessing lands where the township assessors assess the lands situated as the lands here intended to be exempted by this amendment. I am sure that they do assess lands at so much per acre, rating each quarter {at one hundred and sixty acres. This will protect us from this want of uniformity, and would not produce any inconvenience in the assessment and collection of the revenue. The board of equalization would equalize the value of the lands by the acre, and have our lands properly and justly assessed. It is not fair to tax men for the lands they have dedicated to the public use. If it should be in a small proportion of the various counties, it is right that that small portion should be protected against this injury; and I hope the amen~dment will prevail. The provision certainly ought to operate upon wholesale,as well as retail dealers. I am of opinion that the clause had better stand as reported. Mr. WENDLING. Mr. Chairman:: If there is no doub t as to t he meaning of the term "grocery-kees pers," I will withy draw the amendment. My object, and my only object in proposing it was to prevent a misunderstanding of the meaning intended to be conveyed, so that we may know whether to vote for or against the language. Mr. BUXTON. Mr. Chairman: I move to strike out the word "grocery-keepers," and insert "liquor dealers," which is a term clearly understood, and just as elegant as "grocery-keepers." It is the term used in the United States revenue law. The CHAIRMAN. The question is upon the amendment of the gentleman from Clinton [Mr. Buxton]. Mr. BUXTON. Mr. Chairman: I withdraw the motion to strike out, and move to insert the words "liquor dealers" after "grocery-keepers." The amendment was agreed to. The CHAIRM:AN. The question is upon the adoption of section two, as amended. Section two, as amended, was agreed to. The CHAIRMAN. The question is upon section tbree. The Clerk read section three as, follows: SEc. S. The specification of the objects and subjects of taxation shall not deprive the General Assembly of the power to require other subjects or objects to be taxed in such manner as may be consistent with the princ-iples of taxation fixed in this Constitution. Mr. PERLEY. Mr. Chairman: Before we pass upon this section I would like to call the attention of the gentleman from Clinton LMr. B'uxton] to the fact that inasmlluch as "grocery-keepers" is defined by statute to include the keepers of all houses where spirituous liquors are sold; if we add the word "liquor-dealers" then "grocery-keepers" will be held to inclucde what the gentleman from Henry [MNr. Wait] thoughit that it included. Mr. BUXTON. They-are merchants, at all events, and hence they are included under any construction of the words. - The CHATRMAN. If there is no fobjection, section three will; be declared to be adopted. The Clerk will read section four. The Clerk read section four, as follows: SEC. 4. The property of the state, counfties, andi other municipal corporations, both real and personal, and such other prop~erty as may be necessary for school, religious, cemetery/, and charitable purposes, may be exempted from~ taxation; but such exemption shall be o~nly by gener al law. Sir. CODY. Mr. Chairman: I move :.o insert in the: second linle, after the ;~rord "personal," the words "and the :eel estate used by the public for high (;qays.~' During the recess my attention auraes called to this matter by several farm.:,srs; and, by inlquiring among the mem':ers of the Convention, I find that in some of the counties, assessors have been in the habit of leaving out real estate used for public highways, while in the section of the State in which I live, I know assessmBents are made by including the whole land for the purpose of taxation, and I think the law at present requires that the whole land shall be assessed. Of course every individual own Mr. ABBOTT. Mr. Chairmal: I think the amendment should prevail. I myself own a farm of three hundred and twenty acres, with roads all around it, and pay taxes without any exemption for the roads whatever. I shall support the am endmuient. Mr. VANDEVENTER. Mr. Chair man: I see some elements of equity in the amendment since these highways are constituted as they are. But if this should be adopted, it would result in endless confusion. No tax-titles would be good on sale of land over which highways run, no land being -p)roperly described. For instance a road might run so as to cut off two acres of a farm. This could not be described without actual inspection by the assessor, and, consequently, the deed, when the land -came to be sold for taxes, could not be made for want of an accurate description of the land. And if the as sessor were compelled to go and assess the land upon the principle of the amend ment, we would have to pay the assessor full as much as for a surveyor, in addition to his present pay. There might be, for instance, thirty sev en acres in one part of the field and four acres in another, and the assessor would be compelled to survey triangular plats aud assess each separately, in order to get the highway out of it. I think, in order to exempt the high. ways from taxation, we would have, to pay so much more to the assessor that the adoption of this amendment would result in considerable expense, and not compen. sate for the change. I hope the amendment will not be adopted. Mr. MERRIAM. Mr, Chairman: It may be very true that the objections urged against the amendment offered by the gentleman from Du Page [Mr. Cody], are well taken; but it is nevertheless the fact that a considerable proportion of the real estate of our country is used for highways. They are not established for private, but for public benefit, and I can see no reason why the publi'c highways that run through all agricultural districts should be subject to taxation any more thaLn why the streets that run through your cities ~hould be taxed. Is there any owner of a block in the city of Springfield who would be willing to p.~y taxes for the streets that run arolund it? 0f There is an equity in the thing, for there are mrany farmns in this State that are intersected by -wide roads. ~'These large tracts are used for the benefit of the public, and the owners of land adj acent 'are compelled to pay taxes upon such public ground. It may be that it would'be difficult to describe the laned, and hence it would be almost impossible to make tax titles valid; but th're: is an equity here, and we cannot with justice say a man must pay a tax upon property he does not own. A farmer who has a highway running through or by his land pays a tax on that just as much as on his best improved land. If he hasa quarter section, and puts upon it a house worth ten thousand dollars, and other improvements worth as much more, the whole one hundred and sixty acres are taxed, although eight or ten acres may behighwalys; and this increased value on account of these improvemnents is assessed upon the highway, CONSTITUTIONAL CONVIENTION 1261 TiguRSDA-79 API 1w1~.DBTSAD R(EIIG)1~ REVENUE. The CHAIRMAN. The question is upon the amendmentoffered by the gen tleman from DuPage [Mr. Cody] to in sert after the word "personal," in the second line of section four, the following words: The real estate used by the public for high ways. The Clerk read section four, as follows: The property of the State, counties, and other municipal corporations, both real and personal, and such other property as may be necessary for school, religious, cemetery, and charitable purposes, may be exempted from taxation; but such exemption shall be only by general law. Mr. WELLS. Mr. Chairman: When this question was first suggested to me the amendment to strike out "the land used for highways"-I confess that it commended itself to my judgment as proper and eminently just. But, upon reflection, I have been led to think of these facts. There must neces sarily be so much tax made up anyway, and if we do not make it up off the roads, it must be collected from other property. The people who own the property have to pay so much tax anyway. The tax is nottaken from the people to be given away, but it is, in theory, for the benefit of the people at large. Suppose that there are one hundred thousand acres of land occupied by roads, the land being valued at one million dollars. Then that tax must be put on something else, must it not? As the part of justice, it seems to me best to leave the provision as it now stands. The roads are not owned by the public. The public only have the use of them. Mr. CODY. Here is a man owning eighty acres of land, with roads on four sides of it, and another owning the same with a road on but one side-is that equal? Mr. WELLS. No, it is not. There is no general rule. A man who has roads on four sides of him may be in a very bad position, and may pay tax on more land occupied by roads than his neighbor who owns one hundred and sixty acres of land, with a road only onl one side, but he has the advantage and convenience of the roads, and I guarantee he would ratber pay the tax on them than have them shut up. The existence of a road is a great convenience in a majority of cases; and, therefore, I believe that the present system of taxing land, including high ways, will work with convenience, and will be found to be fairer than any other system that can be devised. The question was presented to me by the gentleman in conversation yesterday, and I at once fell in with his views; but subsequent consideration of the objections induced me to believe that the best plan is to Octave the thing in its present condition. By leaving out the roads we disarrange the tax books of the county, and thus cause great confusion. If the amendment is adopted, its working will cause a great deal of injury and inmon-t venience to the people of the State. Mr. BENJAMIN. Mr. Chairman: I wish simply to suggest the question whether or not railroads are public highways? If they are, then railway roadbeds would be exempt from taxation under this amendment. r Mr. CODY. The amendment says, just the same as the rest of his land. This is grossly unjust. It may be that the ev ils we should fall into in attempting to remedy the difficul ty would be greater than the evils now existing; but certainly there is reason and justice in the amendment, and I hope the Convention will give it a very fair consideration before actirg upon it. Mr. McCOY. Mr. Chairman: I am one of those individuals who happen to come in the way of highways in the land I happen to own. But, while that is true, I think the amendment should not be adopted. My reason is that it is a subject over which the power of the Legislature is am ple. If there is a fault or injustice, it arises more from the assessors than any other cause. It is the duty of the assess or to examine the premises and deter mine, under all the circumstances, what that land is worth, taking into consid eration the incumbrance of the highway. For that reason, I take it, we should pass the sectionlas it is, and leave this subject to the Legislature. I hope we shall not make an innovation of this kind here, and adopt any special legislation for this purpose. I am quite a sufferer in this respect, but I believe we had better leave it to the Legislature, and suffer the evil until the Legislature gets together and makes it a matter of duty on the assessors to take into consideration the question of highways running over land.] In Ithe sale of that land, the highways must be sold as well as the other portions of the land, for the purpose of revenue; and it is of no use to impose a burden of this kind in the organic law. Let us leave it to the Legislature. They will make provision. I know, a few years ago —perhaps ten or fifteen-it was the law that assessors should exempt the highway from assessment, but somehow it has been dropped by the revision of the statutes, so that assessors now take into consideration the whole tract, and seem to have lost sight of the fact of a deduction on account of public highways. I take it that when the subject is properly brought before the Legislature, they will take action upon it, and cure this evil. I hope the amendment will not be adopted. ~ Mr. WELLS. M~r. Chairman: I move that the committee now rise, report progress, and ask leave to sit again at two o'clock this afternoon. The motion was agreed to. "real estate used by the public for high ways." Mr. BENJAMIN. Exactly. The pub lic have the right to u se th e rail roads in this State. It is n only on t ha t groun d that railroad corporations are authorized to exercise the right of eminent domain. The Legislature grants to these corpora tions that right, fbr the public benefit, in ocder that these highways may be con structed for the use of the public. The roadbeds of railway corporations are "real estate used by the public for high ways." ["Question!" "Question!"! The CHAIRMAN. The question is on the motion of the gentleman from Du Page [Mr. Cody]. A division was ordered. The committee divided, when, there being nine in the affirmative and twenty one in the negative, the amendment was not agreed to. MIr. CROSS. Mr. Chairman: I move to amend by adding, after the word "for," "agricultural and horticultural so cieties," as there are in many counties in the State societies owing grounds for agri cultural purposes, which they use exclu sively for holding agricultural fairs. Such I know is the case in my own county, and, I believe, in the adjoining county of Booine. The fair grounds of Winnebago county are situated within the limits of the city of Rockford. Formerly, the society was not taxed, but of late years they have been taxed for city, county, State and other purposes. The society have erected, and are erecting, valuable buildings, for the use of the society, and feel it a hard ship to be taxed while other societies are exempt. Mr. VANDEVENTER. Mr. Chair man: I understand these agricultural societies are incorporated for the purpose of making money for the corporators; if they do, I do not see any necessity for ex empting them from taxation. I am op posed to this wholesale exemption of property. I am in favor of exempting church and cemetery property, but not the property of agricultural and horticul tural societies. Mr. CHURCH. Mr. Chairman: These institutions have received, heretofore, en. couragement from the State, and probably no appropriations that have ever been made from the State treasury have been appropriated to better purposes than those for the purpose of encouraging the system of county agricultural societies. To impose a tax upon fair g~rounlds and buildings (for that is all the property those societies have), would be simply to impose a tax to be collected, subject to the expenditure of collecting it anld putting it into the county and State treasury, and to then donate it back again —for such would be the practical effect of it. I can see much better reasons why ninny of the institutions that ate exempted from taxation, should be subjected to taxation. These societies do not hold property for the purpose of speculation. Upon the contrary, I believe it is the experience of nearly all who are connected with them, that they are a subject of serious cost and heavy expenditure to them. I know that sulch is the case in the county that I represent. The buildings have, in a great measure, been built by private subscriptions anad donations from individuals. itl the money realized by these fairs is for AFTE31 O OON SESSION. THURSDA-Y, April 14, 1870. The Convention met at two o'clock P. wN., and was called to order by the President. The PRESIDENT. The Convention will ~be resolv ed into Committee of the Whole, unless objection is made. There being no objection, the Convention, as in Committee of the Whole (Mr. Sedgwick in the chair), resumed the consideration of the revenue article. 317 APRIL 14-3 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1265 ADJOURNAIENT. -NTr. PERLEY. Mr. President: I move that the Convention do now adjourn. The motion was agreed to. So the Convention (at,twelve o'clock and seven minutes) adjourned. CON STITUTIONAL CONVENTION the purpose of re-distribution to the mem- as the gentleman from Will [Mr. Goodbers and exhibitors, by trifling premiums, hue]. [Laughter]. to encourage all to bring forward and Now, sir, about the eulogy. I do beshow the products of their farms, pro- lieve from my own experience-and it is ducts of their stalls and of their sheep- a considerable experience-that the confolds. ductors of the fairs, the owners of the It did not seem to me that anything fair lands, do not need any protection at could be said in favor of subjecting such our hands. While I say this, I say that property to taxation. It is a small boon the honest farmers and manufacturers that is claimed by the agricultural inter- who go to these fairs, are regarded by these ests of this State. Yet, small as it is, I managers as the geese to be picked by repeat, it is important. I certainly hope them. They are the game that yields a that the amendment will be adopted. profit for the runners of these fairs an(le Mr. DEMENT. Mr. Chairman: I fair grounds. That is my experience, and would like to ask the gentleman from my experience, so far as concerns the obMcHenry [Mr. Church], though he has ject for which I went to these fairs, have taken his seat, a question: Whether he been a great success. has been in the habit of attending these As to getting premiums, I have obfairs, and has been an exhibitor? tained every premium that I contended Mr. CHURCH. Mr. Chairman: I am for while our State fair was held at De. able to answer the question of the gentle- catur. I also obtained every premium I man by saying that I have. And if he struggled for in our county fair, and will drop into my place of business, I I will say, I never exhibited a race shall be happy to show him some diplo- horse. I never owned a race horse that mas; and if he will look to the list of was exhibited or run during one of these premiums, he will find that I have taken fairs; and to show how little foundation my share, though they still remain in the any gentleman has had, or may have for hands of the society, for that is the way any such supposition, I will state I have we do business where I live. Many ex- not owned or run a race horse in twenty hibitors do not take away their premi- years. urns at all, but donate them back to Mr. CROSS. Mr. Chairman: The the society for the purposes of improve- gentleman says these agricultural fairs ment. are generally managed by rings. I judge Mr. DEMlENT. Mr. Chairman: I that, as he has been so successful, he has think eulogies pronounced upon these so- been in one of these rings. I have cieties should be qualified, and I propose been connected with agricultural fairs to bear my testimony for a degree of in the county I have the honor to repqualification, and let it go for what it is resent, and I know of no such rings, and worth. have never received any premiums; but I have attended these fairs and have I have learned something from the genfound that they are run for the purpose tieman, and I think I would, perhaps, do of making money off the public, and well to go into one of these rings, and they do make money- then, like my friend from Lee [Mlr. De Mr. CHURCH. Mr. Chairman. Will menit], I may be successful. [Laughter]. the gentleman now allow me to ask him Mr. DEMENT. If my friend will ala question-whether he has been in the low me-for I am very friendly to the habit of exhibiting at these fairs? [Laugh- gentleman from Winnebago [Mr. Cross] ter.] -I will say that if he can learn any Mr. DEMENT. Mr. Chairman: I am thing from me that will be of service to very happy to say to the gentleman that him, there is not a member in this ConI have, and if he should ever step into vention that is more welcome. I did not my office, I will show himn the emblems say there were'"rings." The gentleman, of my success. whose experience is extensive, has suffer I have received a gold and two silver ed his imagination to carry him into a medals as the evidences of my skill. I history, probably, that I was not posseshave plowed at several fairs, and won sed of myself. I have not said rings. I the first premium, as the history of our said the owners of these lands upon which State fairs will show. Ihave no preju- the fair grounds are located, who mandices on this subject. age the fair grounds, who rent the booths, Mr. CHURCH. Mr. Chairman: Let as they aie called, the show rooms, and me ask, then, if he has made it a specu- who keep the gates, the places to get in lation-whether or not he found himself and out, the jewelers that furnished the out of pocket in consequence? gold medals and silver medals that I and Mr. DEMENT. Mr. Chairman: So other successful exhibitors received, have far as the expenses of going and return- made a great profit. ing compare with the weight of nickel There are a great many interests conreceived, probably it has cost rne more nected besides the farmers, and I have-l than the premiums are worth in money since horse racing has been mentioned- i value. Nevertheless, I would not yield to my regret, when wishing to have the the distinction I think they have given attention of the gentlemen that run and me for the amount of money. managed the fair, to my agricultural im Mr. GOODRUE. Mr. Chairman: A plements, that I manufactured and used modest gentleman on this side of the with my own hands-I had to wait unhall-too modest to ask the question him- til the horse-racing and gamblers were self-desires me to ask the gentleman first attended to. from Lee [Mr. Dement] if he ever runs That was and that is the great source horses at these county fairs? [Laugh- of profit at these fairs-the gate fees and ter.] entries; and all the matters attending the Mr. DEMENT. Mr. Chairman: Prob- horse racing and shows, jugglers, etc, at ably the gentleman who requested the tract a great number of the spectators question may feel the interest of the from the cities in and about the location question to be rather personal. I asi not of the fairs. They have been made, herein the habit of firing at game that is tofore, the one great card of the mansshielded by so formidablena breastwork gers, to draw money from spectators, who feel no interest, whatever, in t he a gricultural products. They go there to see the show, the horse-race and the other little entertainments presented, which attract five times as much interest as the agricultural implements, or stock presented by farmers. Very few, compared with the great number of spectators in attendance, went around to view the sheep, and the hogs, and the cattle, and the wool, and the productions of the farmers; and the farmer received but a very small proportion of the attention of the spectators, or the managers of the fair grounds, although I do not doubt that so far as the gentleman fromn Winnebago [Mr. Cross] is concerned, his purposes and the purposes of those with whom he was connected, were as pure as they could be, that he intended to promote the general interests of the farming people and the producing inter ests of the country; but still I return to the fact, and say that the managers of these fairs, if they ever hear of what I ala now saying, will say, "There is a man who understands us, and has spoken the truth about the way we m-rage these fairs, and the way we pick the community and make money out of it." In the name of the agricultural interests they do pick the agricultural interests and make money. I state it here, and I will stake niy judgment on it, that every one in the inside of the management of these fairs knows that I am speaking the truth to-day-that they run them to make money. There are men connected with these fairs who do not work for nothing, or for the public interests alone. Mr. ROSS. Mr. Chairman: I move that we close the debate on this amendmlent, under the new rule. The motion was agreed to. ["Question," "question"]. The CHAIRMAN. The question is upon the amendment of the gentleman from Winnebago [MIr. Cross.] The Clerk will read the amendment. The Clerk read the amendment, offered by Mr. Cross, as follows: Insert after the word:'for," in the second line, the words "agricultural and horticultural societies." A division was ordered. The committee divided, when, there being twenty-seven in the affirmative and thirteen in the negative, the amendment was agreed to. Mr. WELLS. lair. Chairman: I offer the following ameandmenlt to this section: Strike out all after the word "and" in the second line down to the word "purposes" in the third line, and insert the following: "!the land and building used exclusively as a place of worship of ally religious society not exceeding in value $5,000. The land and buildings used ex~clusively for a cemnetery, publlc libraries, public school or agricultural society." Now, sir, I am told that in the city of Chicago there is a block of property worth nearly half a million dollars, standing on a corner, with great stores under it on both streets. The second story is rented at enorm~ous profit for offices.s The third story is also rented for offices. Other parts of the building are rented at large rents, and away up in the garret these pious poeople go up and pretend that they are worshipping God, and lunder this religiouls dodge that they have got up there, they have about half a million dollars worth of property smuggled out froma under taxation. isw, that is all T]ATJRSDAY, 1266 DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. wrong. Exemption means shoving off stated by the gentleman from Peoria, it is getting at, and I would have got around stated by the gentleman from Peoria, it is not the law that is at fault, but the assessors. Mr. HAINES, of Cook. Mr. Chairman: The gentleman has referred to the case, I presume, that came up from Chicago; but however that may be, we do know one thing-that too much property is exempt from taxation. I am informed by my colleague [Mr. eMcdill] that the tax commissioner of the city of Chicago tells him that there are twenty million dollars of property in that city belonging to these institutions, exempted from taxation, that is not usedby the churches. It is fair to say that we have twenty million dollars at least, used exclusively by the churches of that city, which they own, on which their churches stand. Their buildings are very expensive. Some of them cost hundreds of thousands of dollars, and assuming that we raised by taxation in the city of Chicago, for general purposes, last year, four million dollars, it would therefore appear that every tax payer in the city of Chicago paid fifteen per cent. of his taxes in excess of what he would have paid had not this property leen exempt from taxation. In other words, in this great republic, the foundation of which is first State sovereignty, and then the rights delegated by the States to the general government, and the Constitution of the United States and of this State, through which every man has been guaranteed certain liberties, one of which is that he shall not be obliged to support any church organization, either directly or indirectly. We hear it said in this Constitutional Convention, that he shall be. In the old Constitution there is a provision which conflicts with this principle; and as I claim, being the larger, overrides it. Yet the Legislature has assumed to exempt all this property from taxation. I say it is wrong that we should oblige the tax payer to pay fifteen per cent. of his taxes in support of church organization. It may be that he may belong to a little church, the property of which does not amount to five thousand dollars, and yet some great church comes and places itself by the side of his, so that he, in his poverty, is obliged to pay just so much more as the large church is worth more than the small church. It is all wrong. Since I have been home, I have taken some little pains to sound the religious community upon this subject. I have not found a man, not even a priest, who indorses the proposition that a church sho,uld be exempted from paying taxes upon its own property. We do oblige them to pay special assessments if the street is improved or sidewalks built. It is not too much to say that they shall pay general taxes for the support of the gover n ment that protects them. Mr. HANNA. M~r. Chairman: The objection made by the gentleman from Peoria [Mr. Wells], grows out of a mistake in his own mind as to what the law is at this time on this subject. The supreme court of this State view the subject in a light exactly the reverse. Mr. HAINES, of Cook. l~Mr. Chairvmau: I know four pieces cf property in Chicago, owned by sectarian schools and associations of the kind, worth one million dollars, and I know that they do not pay one cent of tax. rtMr. HANNA. That is the point I was A-PRIL 14, 1870. 1267 wrong. Exemption raeans shoving off the burdens of government from one's own shoulders to somebody's else. Now, there,ire a number of poor churches throughout the land-there is no gentleman here but sees them at every corner almost in a day's ride-that are worth from five hundred to one thousand and perhaps two or three thousand dollars. Some poor religious societv meets there. These societies. it is eminently proper to protect, but there are on the contrary millions of dollars worth of property in the city of Chicago, and hundreds of thousands in every other large city in the State, invested in magnificent churches. The members of these churches o,o there, -not to worship God, but to worship mammon, and show their fine raiment. They are wealthy; they are not poor, and the little amount of taxes which would fall to their share they are perfectly able to pay. I believe it is no more than right that where people put on so much for show, where they put on so much finery, where thev have such magDificent organs, such Ane stained glass windows, carpeted aisles, painted pews, and pictures hung all around the churches, they should help to pay a. little part of taxes that support the State government. Why should they be exempt? Their Master paid taxes, if the record is true, when He was on earth, without grumbling. Why should not the disciples pay their share of the taxes as willirglv as He did? .Alr. CAMERON. I w[)uld ask the gentleman if the Master paid any taxes upon his church property?' 31r. WELLS. No, sir. This church property is a new invention of somebody beside the Master. He paid his taxes, and he set some of his servants to catch ,-i. fish to pay them, if'he story is true. Why should not these churches pay their taxes? Concerning the other''part of the amendment, I believe that cemeteries oilght to be exempt. We shall all of us have our bones laid away in the cemetery sometime, and bones of the dead should be respected. Public libraries, and public schools are places of education. They are for the purpose of conferring benefits upon the coming Generation, for the purpose of getting at, and I would have got around there pretty soon. The fourth section is almost an exact copy of the present clause of the Constitution of this State on that subject, but ircliides one very material amendment, which the gentleman has not noticed, perhaps, and which, I think, obviates the objection made by him. The present Contitution of tfils State provides that the property of the State, both real and personal, and such other property as may be necessary for school, religio-Lis and charitable purposes, may be exerapt from taxation. A large number of these institutions. have come to the Legislature, procured special charters, providing that the property shall be exempt from taxation, and -Linder those special charters, have held all the property they could possibly acquire exempt from taxation. We have gone a step further and provided that such exemption'shall only be by general law, and if that provision had been iu the Constitution of 1848, it would have stopped all the abuses complained of by the gentleman. The supreme court'of this State, ir, construing that section, declared that all churchand other property soexempted, issubject to taxation, except itisused for the purposes intended, and ti-ic reason it is exempt is because the congregations have special a-,ts exempting them, and do not acquire that exemption by general law. We have provided that there shall be -n,) such special act, but that there shall be a general law exempting school and church property. The trouble is that the gentlemen from Chicago, and from other virtuous cities, come here and get an act incorporating some kind of ij3stitution-a library, perhaps, or something of that kind-and have their charters provide that all the property they shall acquire shall be exempt, and that is the case in one ixstance, where $20,000,000 Mr. HAINES, of Cook. Say $40,000,000. Mr. HANNA. Make it eighty million dollars of property is exempt. The latter clause of this section four provides against a tendency of that kind. I think treat will fully answer the objection raised by the entleman from Cook county [Alr. Halinesf. f he eiitleman 1268 COSTJTUTIOAL ()OYETION THURSDAY, service, and try in every way to discourage religious societies altogether? I hope this amendment will not be adopted. I see no objection to the section as reported by the committee. It is proper enough to tax that part of the prop. erty not necessary for religious purposes. I have no objection to that, but I do object to taxing that part of the property necessary for religious purposes. Here is the case decided by the supreme court. It comes up from the First Methodist church of Chicago. I will read the opinion of the court. The First Methodist Episcopal church of Chicago, and the trustees thereof, appellants, vs. the city of Chidago, appellees. Appeal from the superior court of Chicago. The syllabus is as fo l lows: Apart of a building erected as a church, which is rented for other than religious purposes, is taxable, notwithstanding the rents are to be applied, after payment of a mortgage, to provide other places of worship. The intent of the law exempting buildings from taxation, which are erected for religious worship is, that such buildings shall be used for sacred, and not for secular purposes. The part of a building used exclusively for religious purposes, may be exempt from taxation, and the part not so used, may be taxed. The court says: It is not enough that the profits or income of the secular uses are to be applied to sacred purposes. When money is made by the use of the building, that is profit, no matter for what purpose that money is applied. But it is objected that if any portion of the building is subject to taxation, then the whole is, and hence the court erred in exempting that portion which is exclusively devoted to religious purposes. It does not lie in the mouth of the church to raise this objection, which is to her advantage. She must not complain of that which is for her benefit. But if we could listen to this complaint, we do not think it well founded. There is no more difficulty in recognizing the different parts of a building for v-aluation and taxation than there is for use. The assessor can easily decide what part of the property is used for secular purposes, and what for religious purposes. Mr. PERLEY. Mr. Chairman: I believe that the house of God and the home of the dead-the resting places of the body and the soul, should be exempt fro.wr taxation. I care not if we build a house of God as magnificent as Solomon's temple, it ought to be exempt from taxation. It is not in vain that men have reared costly piles of worship. The churches and cathedrals of Europe, built centuries ago, stand to-day; and now men, when theygo there, make their first visit to those sacred edifices, in which those of the middle ages embodied their truest thoughts and noblest aspirations. They have been a source of education, of instruction, of comfort and blessing to the world; and Trinity church to-day, as it overlooks Wall street and the walks of commerce, where the money-changers congregate, tells its story there, not in vain, I imagine, to the toilers and gamhblersand money-getters in that great metropolis. If men of wealth are disposed to rear beautiful buildings of marble and granite'to withstand the "tooth of time," to attract the eye and educate unconsciously the taste of the people; if they shall see fit to put their money into noble structures for the public benefit, to be used exclusively for religious purposes, I would not discourage them in so laudable a work, but would rather encourage them, by exempting such proper ty from taxation, to devote their wealth All are exemh pt. I mig ht say it is a great hardship to the poorer school house, as the gentleman from Cook [Mr. Haines] remarked. If we go on his principle, you must tax all property. The same equality will rise in every part. Here is Oak Ridge Cemetery. It is worth twenty times what the same extent of ground as a cemetery is worth in the southern part of the State. Are we going to state that an acre of it shall be taxed and the remainder shall not? I am in favor of exempting from taxation all property especially used for the purposes enumerated, without regard to value, and the supreme court has fou-nd an avenue by which it can be easily done. They say it is the duty of the assessor to declare which portion is used for that purpose, and which is used for business purposes, and there is no hardship in the assessor arriving at the value of the property specially exempt. Mr. HAINES, of Cook. Would not the gentleman prefer to have the word "exclusively" inserted instead of "necessary?" Mr. HANNA. I think the terms are synonymous. That which is necessary for church purposes is that which is used exclusively for church purposes. I do not think anything can be gained by a change. I am in favor of the section as it now stands. I think the objections made, are without foundation, for if the gentleman [Mr. Wells] examines the decisions of the supreme court on that subject, he will find that they say it is the duty of the assessors, where a portion of a religious building is not used for church purposes, to tax ft like other property, although the title may be in the church. Parties come down here and want a charter for a library, providing that their property shall be exempt from taxation, by special law. That dodge is now effectually destroyed by the last provision. Mr. HAINES, of Cook. They can do that under the old Constitution. ],Ir. HANNA. Yes, sir; but they cannot do it under the new Constitution. We here provide that the whole matter shall be regulated by general law. I hope the amendment will be voted down, and the section adopted as reported by the committee. Mr. BA_YNE. Mr. Chairman: I thought we would get through this Convention without laying a tax upon religion and the churches of our land, lout there seensy to be a disposition here that it shall lie done. The remarks of the gentlemnan from Peoria [Mr. Whells] seem to convey the idea that quite a number of persons attend church for the purpose of serving mammon, to exhibit their jewelry and fine clothes. I am a resident of the country, and have not been in the habit of attending fine churches very often; but since I came here I have attended church, and I have failed to see that disposition manifested in the people attending the churches of this cit3. The Second Presbyterian church is building a church here, worth, as they tell me, $80,000. The society is poor, and hard pressed to build it. The gentlemanl from Peoria would not have them build such a ~ostly churchn. Why does he not go further and move to lay a tax upon the bible} and uponbe communion CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION THURSDAY, 1268 to such uses, instead of to meaner and more ignoble ends. Mr. PEIRCE. Mr. Chairman: I feel satisfied that no greater indignity to the religious element of the country could be offered by this Convention, than to discontinue the time-honored customs of exempting church property from taxation. But it is undoubtedly a fact that great abuses have grown up under the operation of the present Constitution, and the character of the legislation in former times in this regard. The Committee on Revenue had this subject under careful and protracted consideration, and, earnestly seeking for some mode of correcting these abuses, discovered that the decisions of the supreme court are already ample to prevent the exemption of any part of a building not exclusively used for church or religious purposes, which, if properly enforced, would effectually prevent the abuse spoken of by the gentleman from Peoria [MNlr. Wells]. Our next inquiry was how it came that so much property was exempt from taxation, as is claimed by the gentleman from Cook [Mr. Haines]. And we found reason to think that it came from the system c~f special legislation which has prevailed to so great an extent in this State. Persons came to the Legislature, seeking a charter for a library association, or some kindred society, in which would be inserted a clause exempting the property of such association from taxation. These charters were usually smuggled through the Legislature in an "omnibus," and thus large amounts of property were exempted forever from the visits of the tax gatherer. I remember that when I was a member of this branch of the Legislature. and serving on the Committee on Public Libraries, three or four enterprising young men from Chicago came down with a bill to incorporate the "Chicago Law Library Association." They had an exceedingly plausible bill, but we discovered toward the close of it, after we had got tired with reading it, or they supposed we would be tired, a provision that exempted the real estate and personal property which this association might acquire, from State, county and municipal taxation forever. Under that charter they might have acquired a block of property in Chigo, used one r'oom:for their little library, and had thle whole of it exempted freom taxation. They thought the Legislature exceedingly ungenerous, because they refused to pass the bill with that provision. And when the committee saw fit to strike out that little clause which exempted them from taxation, the patristic gentlemen lost all interest in their library bill, and did not even desire its final passage. Sir, this special legislation has been a sourer of great abuse in this State. This last clause of this section was designed by the committee, and we believe it will, prevent these abuses in the future. None of these exemptio~ns to corporations and societies should hereafter be effected by special acts, but only general law, applicable to all parts of the State alike. The Clerk read the amendment offered by Mr. Wells, as follows: Strike out all after the word "and," in second line, down to the word "purposes," in third line, and insert the following:'l The land and building lused exclilsivelyas a.place of APRIL 14, 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1269 accordance with their own sentiments of right and justice in this regard, they would cut off three fourths of what is proposed to be left here as exempted property. It is the want of nerve to do our manifest duty that we lack. We exhibit a cowardice that is not worthy a membership in a Constitutional Conven tion. I believe the people will sustain an honest exercise of our powers in regard to putting a stop to those abuses upon the taxpayers of the State. Twenty years ago this question was discussed in Ohio, in their Constitutional Convention, at far greater length than it is likely to be discussed here, and discussed by as able a body of men as ever sat in a Constitutional Convention in this country; and this is what they incorporated in their Constitution, after mature deliberation: But burying grounds, public school houses, houses used exclusively for public worship, institutions of purely public charity, and public property used exclusively for any public purpose, may be exempted by a general law from taxation. Now, that is going a great deal further than even the amendment offered by the gentleman from Peoria [Mr. Wells], which has been voted down so decisively. When that question was argued in the Ohio Convention, the demagogues muttered their little threats at the Convention, and the cowards trembled in their knees, lest the people should crush them for doing their duty. Yet that clause was incorporated, and it was ratified by an overwhelming majority of the people at the polls -by a people a s religious, as well educated, and as charitable as the people of Illinois. Mr. Chairman: What means exemptions of property from taxation? What is the theory of it? What is the theory of taxation? Taxes represent the cost of maintaining law and order, of protecting every citizen and every association, religious as well as s cular, in the unmolested possession of their rights, in their lives, in their liberties, in their property. It is the necessary cost, I say, of preserviDg social order. Without this expenditure, we would have social discord or chaos. It is the cost of protection against foreign foes and domestic enemies, it is the cost that we must pay for all that makes life pleasant, enjoyable and safe. No class of people need that protection more than those societies that claim exemption from taxes. Now, we can exempt no property without loading additional burden upon other men who are not believers, perhaps, in the peculiar dogmas taught by the exemp ted sect, and do not want to support the literary institutions that are exempted. We should, therefore, be careful not to transgress the rights of the citizen too far in this regard-not to levy upon each man too much money, take it by force from his pocket, and apply. it to the support and defense of other people's privileges and property, or institutions other than those which he chooses to support. Recollect that this whole thing of exemption means simply and nothing more than a forced contribution levied upon the remainder of the community, for the support of that peculiar property, thus exempted, in addition what the tax-payer pays for his own protection. I hold, therefore, as a general proposition, that all men and all property worship of any religious society, not exceeding five thousand dollars. The land and buildings used exclusively for a cemetery, public library, public school or agricultural society." should pay for their own protection, for the support of government, of law and order, of peace and security of society, in proportion to their taxable means. I lay that down as a general proposition, and the exception to that rule should be of the narrowest description. Of course, we should exempt public property, for that is the property of the State. Nothing could be gained by taxing it, more than taking money out of one pocket and putting it in the other. I should exempt grave-yards, for a dead man is not able to pay taxes; and I am willing to exempt the property of churches used exclusively for religious purposes; the property of colleges and schools used exclusively for that purpose, and of charitable institutions used ex clusively for such purpose; but I would not exempt millions and tens of millions of property that these institutions and societies own,not used exclusively for these purposes. I hope that the amendment I have offered will be adopted. It makes the clause reported by the committee, in my mind, much clearer, and more definite, and leaves less room for misconstruction and for abuse hereafter, by either the Legislature or the courts in exempting property that ought to pay for its own protection-for it is a gross and wholly unjustifiable wrong to compel one class of men to pay other men's taxes. Mr. BROMWELL. Mr. Chairman: It seems to me that this amendment of the gentleman from Cook [Mr. Medill] has more in it than he attributes to it; that it is a material amendment, and ought, by all means, to go in. This term "nec essary," in this connection, is a very vague and indefinite expression. It is a maxim of the law that "fraud lurks in loose generalities." In fact, this prohibiting things in this general way, has been the very weakness of the present Constitution. Nothing definite, leaving openings through which men may creep. I have no doubt that there are millions of property in Illinois, exempt from taxation to-day, under some special charter, perhaps, but which nevertheless could never have been exempt if the present Constitution had contained such words as are now proposed. People have made the organization of religious or charitaIble institutions a cover under which to grasp property and screen it fromn the tax: collectors. I say that this Constitution ought not only to cut this thing off for the future, but it ought to cut it off at once. When gentlemen have come here to procure a charter in the name of some religious society, library or other charitable institution, and have gone on and acquired property uinder it, there is nothing in the relation between the State and such societies which can be regarded as such a private contract that this Constitution Cannot upset it and remit the corporators to the condition in which they would have stood if they had organized fairly under the general law. I hope the word "necessary'} will be stricken out, because there can lbe considerable latitude of interpretation under it. H~ere is a five-story building, and in some upper portion of it a religious society worshiping, or a library assrociation meeting, or some other body doing business under some pious name. A dispqte arises upon the meaning of "necessary,> The question being on the amendment offered by Mr. Wells, it was not agreed to. Mr. MEDILL. Mr. Chairman: I offer the following amendment: Strike out the word " necessary " in the second line, and insert in lieu thereof the words, " u s ed exclusively." The gen tleman from Wayne [Mr. Hanna] expresses the opinion that the words "used exclusively," are the synonyms of "necessary." I think not. In the case of a school, for instance, an academy, college or seminary of learning, owned by private parties and conducted to make money, a large rental derived from the lease of lands owned by the company or corporators, or stocks, or the rental of houses, and stores and mills, might be held necessary for the support of that school; a church organization to make money for the stockholders and professors, might be largely endowed with lucrative property, which the owners might contend to be " necessary " for the support of the institution. The same might be claimed by a church corporation, a bible society, a prayer meeting society, a young men's Christian association, a pseudo-charitable institution. It might be held by a religious, or eleemosynary corporation that the upper part of a five story corner block in a great city was enough for a place of meeting or worship, but that they needed all the rental of the stores and offices below for the support of their institution; that whatever income the society had from rents and income on property, was neces sary for the maintenance of the institution. This, in my judgment, is not the just province of an exemption from taxation. It is an evasion-ia fraud on the rest of the community, perpetrated in the name of religion, learning, or charity. The Constitution should except only the property that is "used exclusively " for these purposes. Then why not incorporate the words that express the idea so precisely that there can be no mistake about it, that there can be no double construction or false interpretation put on the meaning of the provision? That abuses fiave grown up and are spreading and extending all the time in regard to these exemptions, is a patent, notorious fact known to eve:ry man in the State, and unless this Convention shall arrest that tendency, it will continue to spread until the evil will become, in the course of time, an overshadowing onle. I appeal to every gentleman upon this floor it he does not feel a sensitiveness, a peculiar delicacy, about restraining and limiting these exemptions in the organic law. Now, if we shrink froml pruning away these excresences and abuses of privilege that have grown up under the plea of protection to piety, literature and charity, how will a Legislature feel that is pressed upon directly by the societies and corporations and institutions affected by exemption from tax~ation? If we are not bold enough to do our duty in a gem cral way, we may depend upon it that the Legislature will not be bold enough to do their duty in a special way. I believe that if the mem~bers of this Convention felt at liberty to act freely it 318 AP.RIL 14, 1870. .DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1269 * THURSDAY, choose to smuggletheirtranactions under;mr suprttebutw-cn."exlusively used," is put in here,se or to snport th' pe~c~ulary cxit' see'ema~~ tome everything'is:eorreCted;.' ig:te o:crknw t eeybd pnsoteif. ifproperty b',exclusively u"sedfor tistl ipurpbsre,whe're ist the use of axing'?, A o be oband su,'preie cort ~righ, t6ivetthatq~uea-,suchi property is a.d'idonatibnit'to;the puiblic, It a. huh's'beta hr t i teet.and nobodyshuld b"called u,ponto pay,t Whenit cmesdow'' tothi quetion ofthe tax.-'No:,partieuilair'man ought'. t'o'pay patcbeineadt:hetm f'd tiguhm it more than':another, rande'rthat reaso'n,o in~ hisligt Th ch'rc~is uil bythew'hn the"f'h word ",exclusively" i1s put in,;ete ftx~ ro sei~asam us d-exa'ctly. the property'': inte'd e d,'.' an'dn') tsof other, will be exe'mpt. ty sol he su by re(rigth'e re.r. CAlflEROU. Mr.'chairan: Ass r r iccthis section haS'UndergOne a"very' lengthyop oseu usio "aps'!her a'meridment p'roposepd bymwe hthe'gentlemahnfromc6ok' [Mr': 3e'dill], u tse'ems to meet'everyconceivable objeetl~n U, tait,'.d.is understood as "w~el perhaps:as if ita when ~tis alrady a onatio to th pubw'ere disc'ussed for ~an'Oth'er da,'&y,~- I(_. wl'-w Igaoyuo teGnrl:ebyt lnow move that all"fu'rther":discussion:be poid a a dispens'ed with, ahd'fthat'i'vote&b takeng" cirpon the amendment,. and upon'the:see-i metoft hih&s'heotionwas agreed-:to. teoiewe mee wh mT, he C-HAIRMAN. -,,The' question- is, rupon th-e amendmen'ofthe gentlemanbg tfrom Cook [lr. Medill.] ~': " This omite alessom:" 'n c:The Clerk rea'd:the.amendment offered by Mr, 3edill, as'follows: mate o tax.aes m-nothlar hStrik'e out the word "necessary" in theq seconidline,, and insert in; lieu,thereof, theii of,, the'g'os~~~~~~~~~peL ~~words "used'exeiusively;"':- -~. will coutinue to do so, requires soepb M The amendment: was agreed: to. l t gt t church'es,wherethe rght o sittng is The. CI&IAIRMA1N.'.' The-,;qu~stion.'' is,apiaini ob aefrjdmn so' d, sallbe tx'e, fo'tha mater;forupon the:'-adopti~on: "0f:the:.Section ~:as aantdlnun ad.Asneofjs whenever people pretend to dedicate a ~~amended'.:.:..... tice wil require:.. tha _t. -:l tie. These~:..~ hiThe Clerk read section four',: as:amend ae ed, as.fOllows: m:nne to be p r by law W may pa~rties'I am wiling thy shall ake the Sac'. 4. "The" property:of thbe:S'tat{ tc~oun: —ntawas:ivetela nisrsn ties,.and' other municipal corporations, both'. real and personal, and such, other property asqf lmay be used exclusively for, school, religious, ocemetery, were charitable purposes,miav be ex.m empted from'-.taxation;;but.such' exemp'tion shallb-e only.:by':gencral law.." manner o mak.!g' t:ee'":'Section four,:as. amended,.Wa:sagreeda r m thether the! ow r.becessarec to supo-.~I,want'.,noth ai n to;. to se v p'efin:s of the'-,)Is'ituinJ'i'f~~the.ift _When itcme'onw:ft~l'uetor of taing- chffi id,tr mte ap:'est._e idohsnih;%14 7T'~clrCii~~'ii'Y te aoduos"S t th.roi s eou~e hr'igi ftor/lkt'pir6s".:'(:i''o.:h u:'{{gi~? W"~dft'~~ i";s i'eaya do'nati n, I.7,h'pu; d~:~rc~/s.tanc. hi' an'sa ~reno?r:tie:r. made this nato hti s.':""- 'M:'.: HA/[i'-S'bfCok "Oes the'yn tiem/''iik0wi'O e the, f.,t'thatio m n'tnc_:er WfA- mal y o'~f:/ur-:d is o';t irit"unry unles~ ~has n ieE'issea? :i[-]~rj''~R0'/[~.~L.' I'' a'm.'illing that' c~a'r~]~e; wheri~.th!6'rght; 6f-'sit~tfis s61d,"':s'h~a ge'a'dd, f~r'that-Dmattbie;.....for whene'vc er" pe'l rOt~nd "t i:,d'e'dicate., ~a: tio so" -:"t'0~~..t,w.0r~hp f-igh t A l G''daila the n':' Sell."hi r fght 06f "itl'to' rv. a!t '"/ieconsedtie n'ed::'ue ii"prcdU re,' a tdil~i'b'bco;'""-D:r:;"i e DLp:'i~: I s'~:p"~ ~ ~ ~~.. of~lih~:o,it- hich"::ii th'e:commtiity'e~i Wail:nd ji'ni rftho a'ri~~~e;"Sfo rhather'~:rthec.'rdrteaskt'e t':~ls"fiwrhp':ad,: at tinyt'~hy ar:'b,lele~:W::~]:.Wos pay the' tat' 0-'su nel~~haic'es?. —6WWl the Cl' ?et i'g''%Ob': ~~i~?:VTe''] no';m:n: .,o!] -'htk: o'f~ ~t4:: na~ti 0h' g'i/avbilt-:, ,...set it;n gi'son teop!~"O esw~o~rs hip,'~ ra~ise'.. teadataeorraterth fu'rther- Th~e:' I':The question-is i om b upon the adoption of Section five.:;': ci t s e r may be they still ~~~~~~upon tl'e whl,aelw:'ta od'favriig-ehp The.,:Cle~rl rad:."s~e-ctiloi fi v:e~, fit'f01 t i t ec.'::5.'The GeneraliAs'semblyv shal pro-s aetebswevide,inalCases'where' it'my ybe necessary'p tto sell real estatefor theinon-paymeut..oftaxes.d ~e~eto~ go to colle~t it? There i o a'o spec',i4al'assq-ssmeuts,::for:State, county,::osqec,s httepry ano pl mnnieipal or.other.-purpos es, tha't a-return of.,. such -paid" tax./es'or as h sessm'e' uts shan be made sgeneoralofficer'of the countyT iharing authority to receive' State and countya.e n ta.xes;,anYd there shall be no. isasie of s'iid prop.-cr t Te'r-erty for y of said taxes or a, essments but-,,up l' e s i O all lands~~~~~~~~by anag'csav o't'''h& b~ai~d'oficier, u[fpon. the.order opr j u'Oga"mtofi tio h'bf':e' ot such a thi~~~~~~~~~sng stis.-'6ourtr of'recordl'-:' h'ad th'6~'Gen'eral "As"-'ri-yo rtay rvin sembly may, in -its discretion,'rvide thatr' the~:applica~tio fo- the. ijudgmet.salb the qiestin, an.. prpositon totax amade at- su'ch"u'iforfba,:tim~e ilfqiiouhot. t~he mrcial,i ay'~tne,t'cl churceate, as'ay hevresc ribdbylawlc..W.ha woldb.te.o mightyG''oQIt' iswho~yunfair u~njuat,' Mr;:[:GOODI'U:E Mr::/'~[ Ch'ai'rman::I seune whnaio hs eicns and nt ony co~raryto th spiit ofthe.woauld::like. to:" offer a~n ~a'mendmente: by"ocrwt'h olctr r.ih'e ~ b~contrry tothe vry h he'stpos-'st~rtkin~g"-on' t'th'e:words:'Ymay'{in its dis-:rne:nteavrismn,o'wt.h sible infe~~~~re~~st of,the ~~comuiy.,eeti~o~n''"':':.;aft:er'"A:,':ssembly',... in...line:cut o' ~n~" las'e'srd But~sin, serting:'sha~ll"" in'.'lieu an sdad:d ot aM.r Y. As this article was or:gin-bs shrprsanseclh allyprepared, that:' was Itheform of it,con nmofBbescte'"but'epo'n m atur e;refmeCioit in thecom-hS o" i aae on o r mittee,. it. was:amende' so as,:to read asa and old hem n th mar'et or secul- I il.il stat'e thel reasonl of i'.'"The co-feil.Lavei'smta i,f?ayo build lawre bl'ocimpreasod with the: ne'cessitv' aa ofr0 equiring' ufi~i~foim'ity,:as near,as pos:s',i bIe, in'tax:ales,;that parties:might kn:io"wq built ona.''blck~of' and. belogi~g' o a, towhat-'offi'ce to.'~1ook,' for~ the' pu"hrpo'[se:0f:e~ite hrfr,cm o,h o'l s'iadling"wf parys'in from taxation.~' It is simply paid or:"hot,"for" the'e'purpose,'o f.al hdit n put, it n heshpe'I :thhem.w-hen. in default, and"know,ingw: "religioii, ortwre to redec.their prope'rty.if pere ThetClekread osaet for wtax oes-ethat rega to.er'q t i nate d ha ber for n twe i. re eryit t hroug-h-ou~:the M~St';te'.w~heore all ~ttfh'i~s.mo mation could be obtained.: w. It::wast::thought — desirmbl,te:-hat -th"6re sho uld,-.~bec:-.uu ilar miry'as'.far,'.~.as..-it ~: -was 'practieable-:in.-r.eg,,rd- t:0 thd-e_:time,:'of ~. sle 'of property in deraultN for.'~ non —payment,either of.ta~:,soofspiMaesen; that,'so-,fai: as ~:,,pra'ctic-abl e,:-tha t.uniformi-~ 'ty should he seeurc'd: by: re'quiring th's 'sales'to.-bebbmad-e a~t some p'a-rticula-x-period. o:the-y-ea-r-so that parties.:eould-'aipprox'i, — m-ately know within -wha t. periods to, —'Lok :out —.:for':thes b things.,','~'':'''~''[J[~::~~.... T~pon~c~nsideration,:~howev'er', after the-:, article. had. beeni.prep'ared, making'- it oh-b li g'tory —tipond th-e...G~en'eial-:Assem biy.to" .provide;-::that'tthe:.appdlicatio-n for/, the,.judgment-t-o. be ren~dered-on these. Oefa-u,,ts' :ian: te., non~payment~,:of -taxes,.or.~' ass-ess:-f me6nts -,..hould. b-e,,m-ade at'a.unifo-rm lim.. .:th.,e.. comm.itte were impressed'wiha. conviction thatzfthis-w~ould".be'-impraetia': hl!-e,toa, v eygeat:ex,t-ent.,':,:.:.~..c: ...Thi-s...conmmittee,- at:..: least'-o.:mayo: them as-have~direeted their attentiontol-th-e~ ~matter~oaltari -sa~les,~.: maylkn~ow the la;w re,.! quires a previous advertisement. The exist-'. ~ igi-aw.andiprob-ably-.in sl,timtteeto comeit wilL,-conutinue,.to'do so, requ-ires. some- pub-,-: lie notice, to',b-e. W ien.!of the haet th~at; a.aaapplication is:~.t-o..:be,:made. for.judgment:. against~detinrq-.ent'lands.:- A "sense o-f js tice~ will,.equire that. at,,atl - times.~:: Tese. :advertisements are, -to -be::, made in..som-e: manner:t..eprescribedibyv la:We moy-l ~not'?~alwa-ys.:.have;'the-law in" its present, ,forms!.,.But the:l,aw'will;~. -at';:all tlimes,r-" quire -,ome.~notice of. the time And leng~th. of.. time~-at which.it sh~all be.-made..bfoe ap~pl,icatio~n can,,-,~ be~:,:made for;,j'ud-g,ment,,: : aud prescribe the:' manner..of ma.kingk the,.. ~advertis~ement:::':....~:~...?.7 :Thatu~~advertise et:i usu-al-ly made,' and will Conti-nue —to.::-be-,~made,:-'by,'pub-lil.: cation: through-.,some- -news~paper:::"'.Ngow,-'~ wh a t' tunr-ns:out at- pr-ese'nt'wit.h re'gard to.: that' made -of,:.adver.tisi~ng}.....:Perha~ps :some error,,s-.made~i,,I~ n;'drawl, —up.0r in,. !pr finfng'the'. a~~rtisemenfit,/,a,'it s~~-0i ~ discvered: ih~'ie.for'correction,,- The , nequce- is tatthe party cannot qpp-!IY' . for~~~~'jigmntatthe time" cOntemiplawd..:: i The'sae:hs::t.q bepostp-one~d,-!lnti!, ak n ew-(' ~ advetisemnt a bemrader.,and the. error,. CON!5-T- NAL-1~~~~~1'1 !3 0 ~,S~T I-TU..,T'! QiL/?N.Vi;EN. N!O ~,THu-R SDAY. APR, IL 14,1870. DEBAT AT) PRO, 9EEDIN$.,>. 1271 .Mr. BUXTON. Mr Chawir'~th Iwthe ai~~mendlment which' I'f~ d, re-tereniino~~''ge'ndpo would, ask the gen'tleman from~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~ Saga'o q'iig the Legislature'to'provide' Sht vide,'' alothhi hr'i n isaei' [Mr.. Hay"~~~~~~~~ if ~ith,ere,say eesiyfra 4h p-plicatio~n for the judgment shl tepbIcto'othnoi,anenoie adv'e'risemen underthis s'c~tio ~ Canbe maiide- at su'ch, uiniform'timeo throughoutmybpulhe. Soalothrisn li~t.th la prscrbe" he ime'tht jdg te Sateas ~aybe pte'scr'ibedl by law"-nc, siyfr'h ugett olw m~en~ wil be' alle.for forall npaidthat.'the'reshouild — be'some such,-require-sonatrteuliaiooftentc. giving notice'? g~~~~~~~~aemonq [Mr. flay]-' thos defecs or' thosepulato;buthtiefrtepbi 'Mr. flAY. I~ndoubtedlya l'aw might slips or istakes. whic'h rende~r a fleOw ap aIono hs a ae.i uhhrer ly cmme~'d tsel tothe,judgentof, he Now, if there is any one, thing- that aptieincaefamitkintepbia Legislat'ue' to disp'nse with hat prac-peairs ma'nifest, byV -,hrsolog'-,ofthis to,my,rasiebten'hepbia tice. It ha's alwas be~en thought ex e.-setion~ as i tand,it til te ch'hir- to n h rniino h ugiut dient tat a pevious notice shoad.be'man o6f the.'ommite, n that the e- Agi,iisntasltlneesry give'. "' h~~~~~~~er~s of th~e committee. agreein1g.with hm httesl h~'dtk lc ihn' ,g, Yen f" the Le'gislaure shold dis-saw aneil, which' -was'designeid- in the hra"tieatr"hrenionofth pe' usewith t~e prevous notce, we a'nnotfirst pla~ce,to ~be reedied-.'Thyswjugmn"adi'ipefcycoptn atways prvide ag'in~t''al dther cntin. maifestly that there', wtas'an"" evil fr h,eiltr t rvd ht fb gences, as te'ourtmigh,'ot'ie'e atthrougalioutit-this'State i~n the differen'ce Ofresnosike5o,te'dahote held." "' ~~~~~~~~made-, t-hr,wlin~g o~ur sales,!in various, partgsdrdatasccdig emi hs-ase, he' obtaned at aui'ifor day fro~enr t~vidu~als -onn rpet noepart, ofunfr fedrlfothdaofm'e year; though'n~ ll' he Cuntis ofthethe Stat enteirelyig'i~nora-nt-of-the dangrssoudbeproied n hlw State'..',' - ~~~~~~that, at a,,particua time maybe, threaten- Itsemtom thaititoteitrs "Mr. CO' DY. Mr. Cairman: I move mg-their prpet ianther''portion Ofofeeyoethttashudb doe 'Strike outall after he w'ord "rco'rd," in It is evident.'a' frkm th haeoo-ta h cisaurnhl poiefr th~e ixth ine-tat is the ollowng w'rds:gy of~ this sectin that the carman- of uiomtm o h edto fti "An' &th~~~~~~~~~~~~~~-e Genra Assmbl may n it dis the comtee an'd othe-ra mebers of the, uget o h ae n o ev'i judginent sall be mad at snch uiform rim mmittee areen WIth hi,ee full asb a''t a ben law.", ~~~~~~~~~a'nd, desired, ~as —far as poslihic, to remedyMrCoytosrk.otalatrteor at al; scon'ly, ee'auseit aparetly t-'designed to,,mak ina. these few, rema'rks. o fe h oloigaedet tempts to coner, a ow~er pd~n tem, toI reconize'' thesggestionas- made- byv.thel,d,t eto samne,tewrs"n mitte sys he ommtte fond o b" e,n-correct, and see that there~may be itkes hl emd tsc momtm;truh tir'ely iprachca~be.'f thecommtteethat thie're may be iniadver-ten'ces n lp u h tt,a myb'-rvddb a.1 coul notso fame se' tin asto cnmat'particu lar times w~hich-imay~ maenw M.flY rihira: hn pishh~at nd,,it isnot pobabe tha theapplicatio "for,'the sale~ of real! -estate -POraltedfiutwilaieudrti L'e'gislturecoud do it;andfor he vr'ytaxes -n~ec'e'sary,'at'other t-imes than the t~ime mnmnbhtws prhne ne re'asns h',hs assg' nd, i seem''t' metha mih b osil rescribe'd ~by-'th-e,tepoiinsrce ot I ti i them"~ th use" of his languge.'The'vention.'I e r et,'by' isurmou~nt- wihtesl'cntk ~aeune ug lan'g'nag'e is entirly Un' "necessary41 abe" o bj,ec'ction's' to "ffxin th'lntime' -andmet.If ranresn ajdmn ,'~r. GOO)flITE., ~r. Chairan It. maing it-~i unifor througaho'u-tthe ~St-ate, cno eotanddrn,tetmra se~e'e'd to''e;. hen offee'd he amnd- t isas-fatalt an o~e o to avn, hstetr f'h cuta, whceplc mont, tat the'e bughtto i~e~f; possb'ie,'powe-r:,'with'th-e Legislatur and c,~al~ligtoismdfojugetitinolke uniformitythroughou the~tatein regardtheir a;itt.~iti-on to this'siyo'uithtthslecnbmaea nunfri edtetion, provid tha'ne the'picainfr h~o t 1 :t APRIL, 1,4, -1870. DE:.,ANJ) -.PROCEE,D:I-NG 12-.7 the rendition oflE —idL,ent, and r& ,'-Videl."alg -tht'if tee i the "lDublicatl,on'-'6f th' ew n6tlc.() ipay be bli- ere is, no, necessity OW' so soon. after the p cation of the,,notibe-' I "-,Our chanc6t,'its y S suits-, for -'the t th,6,ti' m"e'f6l e idubli gal .i ax es S' M,U"oh"gh6rter sit r so, -,fit - to tbE i d itis' e "v-fbf fheLo llat-ar to that,a,Qhotter ti in e,' ,.-I the biic tl'on n between t;on ]I -: bf th "iae,"IDlac,.e- wi ~.Oll sh — ti'r-e-;n"' iiio of-t"' -y- boml),6t t fo their, Vid'that. if by,; f —,,or the'e'iith ',6f flfd e n o rickia c r, so es-s der'e4,-4t "a tk'm".'in -th:e bf'it i.;, imortani thin' u r'm _fi 1,6 for the" 'a" Ay' hou'14 1) -6fovided'in"the la 'S't6'Di;e th "at it is' to the'i Interest t s oul of evory6he that bat% h d-b Bond that, it for, us tb,- -oko'vidd -u, 1 1 o fo r:'a"' that- the, -,,,Lcgi-~j at ie, for'the ot'i-lit nifc,rld' tiw6 -rendition he' -saloj!iddweiit. for t d 1;6o,,e as it has e6n. The question beina u-pon the rdotiola -of to i the wq -Mr.,' ENGLIS11., —Chalrmltii ii — w ffer the -foll0-'w'l'ng amendrae'at: Add to sectioia:as amended, theWord4 t(sgd, the General.As,6bl.,v still be riiade',,gt -such -uiiifori out the site -a8 -m'ay. b6-,P- -rb 31r,; - k-Y.- -Mr. ai'r'tn ,all the'difficult will Native'-"U"'ftd.,O'r th, amendment that' was - al)preh6'n"ded undo'r the' tovision- stti6ken,-'O-Ut.-' -1f it i pT.'fic'ble to',pr"ovide''e'utire it6rml in'-"''.the,' Me' of -o eu tiiies'. we c*,%n proi iniie'at w i6h-t'e" -8,alb, Can tk,6', ia;c-e'u,n'dr,i aid ftlent9l f reason, a jdgaieftt c o a u ime or, cannot -b bt' i'd "d' t -,the cur't - t bicii 1) lij:. the; term ,-'of c a w a tio: n is m(le:'f4",iiidtntl,""it'i.91, ii-6ffik6i 'the sa 6itri be' made at' itnv Ull'i r--.tn -r''8'on 'fo! taii'i 'a 0 0 e h ca;u no that' ili e' ie :the same uniform'':'tim e -th'at it ia re'nd&6 iii otliet-'ioou —nties in this State is not likel'that'w,-e',ban the dav 6t fear' th-e-','s,t6 Ca "'n"I'lo'nl r.' s it at, ih' — t -k6 -'D ce 8 soon e-i the-da 6f-:'thejtidg' eftf s;it' go,t6 Mr. -chairman last w ii t 6t 0- to., t 6t ttie counti_v -N6w, it iiht on ed- on tax, lis me-nt- should,' O,:k, r up 's'ur"r"ou.d-i'in"'-the di Of -"Ntdy- ar.-3',Un"e but- m,,: -reao n' i t i-n i o — h f- o tb e: "r en do r 6a" i n f h is c'o u n'-,' 6 the "iiht: t' re' ela an f e n 9:'! th .6 the taxes n' e;enauina, -uld' --t i-d IC'( ; ~ 117 COSI_ JIIOA -OYNTO _HR1) the collection of taxes in all the counties. The difficulty is inherent in the subject, and I think it is better to prescribe no uniform time, either for the application for judgment or time of sale, but leave it to the wisdom of the Legislature to provide, as near as practicable, for such uniform time of sale. We should not prescribe a rule in the Constitution, but leave the Legislature to provide for all exceptions growing out of these contingencies. I think the difficulty grows out of the nature of the subject, and we should not insert an arbitrary rule in the Constitution. o Mr. ENGLISH. Mr. Chairman: Upon consultation with those for whose opinion I have a high regard, I think this is a matter for the Legislature to experiment upon, and that it is better it should not be fixed by the Constitution. I therefore withdraw my amendment. The CHAIRMAN. The question is upon the adoption of section five. Section five was agreed to. The CHAIRMAN. The question now is upon the adoption of section six. The Clerk will read the section. The Clerk read section six, as follows: SEC. 6. The right of redemption from all sales of real estate, for the non-payment of taxes or special assessments of any character whatever, shall exist in favor of owners and persons interested in such real estate, for a period of not less than two years from such sales thereof. And the General Assembly shall provide by law for reasonable notice to be given to the owners or parties interested, by publication, or otherwise, of the fact of ,,ie sale of the property for such taxes or as essment, and when the time of redemption shall expire. Mr. CAMERON. Mr. Chairman: I move to strike out "two," in the third line, and insert "five." I do not desire to take up the time of the committee in dis cussing the amendment proposed. I shal n simply state the'reasons why I offer it. Experience has shown that, in many instances,two years is too short a term for redemption. In my humble judgment, five years would not be too long a term. Sales for taxes, although they may be numer ous in the aggregate, are, after all, ex ceptional cases, produced by absence from the State, sickness, death, or ignorance of the party. Two years come around very quickly-a title is obtained by some land shark, and he gets possession of the property. I conceive that justice requires that the term be extended from two years to five. Mr.. BENJAMIN. Mr. Chairman: I shall support this amendment. There were certain reasons for the limitation of two years, which do not now exist. That is a very good limitation for a new State, where a great portion of the land is owned by non-residents, and is bought up fbr the purpose of speculation; but it is a very short period for the older States, among which, I think may be classed, at the present time, the State of Illinois. There will be no danger, with regard to the collection of taxes, for the reason that the Legislature will always have the authority to fix the amount of redemption money, so that it. will secure the sale of the property upon the non-payment of taxes. If it should appear that a greater penalty ought to be exacted in order to secure the sale, the Legislature would readily increase the amounty t so that the surrounding counties would hav e their judgments, a nd t he tax sales w ould c ome on before judgment could be rendered in the county upon the tax lists. Mr. RICE. Mr. Chairman: The difficulty in establishing a uniform rule as to the time of the application for judgment for taxes, or the time of sale, is one that practically is inherent in the subject. And it cannot be gotten rid of, in my judgment, by applying a rule of uniformity to any one step of the proceedings for the collection of the taxes by sale-transferring it from one to the other. The chairman of the Committee on Revenue [Mr. Hay] presented the views of the committee, as to the practical difficulty in the way of requiring in this article of the Constitution a uniform time for the application for judgment for the sale of lands for taxes, and explains why it is that the committee, instead of making it mandatory, left it to the Legislature to establish that uniform rule. But upon consideration it was very apparent that if the Legislature, by statute, attempted to establish a uniform rule, the same objections would arise in the statute'which the gentleman from Sangamon [Mr. Hay] presented, and which influenced the com mittee in not requiring in the Constitution a rule of absolute uniformity upon this subject. The gentleman from Greene [Mr. English] is aware of the difficulty attending the rule, as to uniform time in rendition of judgment, because contingencies may and will happen, doubtless, to prevent in some counties a successful issue to a pending application for judgment. If it should happen that in ninety-nine coun. ties out of a hundred there have been judgments obtained for taxes, and the time has arrived for the sale, according to the judgments, tbe sale must be uniform in all counties, and until it can be uniform, there can be no sale. The result would be that a failure to obtain a judgment in a single county in time for the sale, as fixed under the rule for uniform time, would result in no sale for taxes in any of the other counties, because there cannot be a sale until judgment is obtained, and if the sale has got to be at the Same time in all the counties, every county must have a judgment in time to give notice of that sale, or else no county can have one. The manifest difficulties and hardships that would result from such a rule, are, I think, obvious. A refractory county, or one seeking to avoid the payment of taxes, or one in which the officers are negligent in the p ~rformance of their duties, would have the power to stop the whole process of collection of taxes for the State and counties, under such a rule, and it may be possible, as the gentleman from Sangamon [Mr. Hay] suggests, that a" court that was expected to render judgment at the. time presented by the rule, might not be up to time —lthe judge might be sick, or the term might be postponed to some other convenient time, or perhaps the judge might die, or insurrection break out in a county or counties, and thus ob struct for a temporary season the true course of civil procedure. A thousand contingencies might arise that would pre vent the execution of the law within the time prescribed in the amendment of the gentleman from Grwne [Mr. English], and the effect would be to jdefeat This amendment would net interfere at all with the collection of taxes. It would only secure to persons who have been tempor ar ily a bse nt fr om the State, or are ignorant of their rights and duties, or negligent, for a period of five years, the right to redeem their property from tax sale, by paying whatever amount of redemption money the Legislature may impose. Mr. VANDEVENTER. Mr. Chairman: I cannot see any necessity for this change at this time. The reason given certainly does not strike my mind favorably-that property is being taken away from certain classes, before they have an opportunity to redeem. It is well known that the law is, and always has been in this State, that minors, married women, and the insane shall have two years to redeem in, after the removal of their disability. Every minor has three years in which to redeem, after he has reached his majority. I can see no reason, then, for this change, and the reasons given why men should not be required to pay their taxes, should, it seems to me, operate the other way. Mr. CAMERON. Mr. Chairman: I would remind the gentleman from Brown [Mr. Vandeventer] that I mentioned another class. and a far more numerous one -those of foreign birth, who are ignorant with respect to our language and customs; those who have come from the old world to our shores, have settled in our midst, do not understand our habits, and whose property may be sold for taxes before they are aware. This is the class that especially requires protection'-the Ger mans more particularly. Mr. VANDEVENTER. Mr. Chair man: I am not aware that there is any person in Illinois, or out of Illinois, so ignorant of the country, and the laws, as not to know that the rule is to pay taxes annually. There is not a country in Europe but pays taxes annually. Mr. CAMERON. Mr. Chairman: I am not speaking of citizens. I am speak ing of those who have not yet become citizens, of strangers from foreign coun tries, unused to our laws, ignorant of our language and customs, yet who have the right to acquire property. Mr. VANDEVENTER. Mr. Chairman: If they have sense enough to find America. and accumnulate property, I think they have sense enough to know that they pay taxes every year. After living here seven hundred days they have sense enough to buy land and get deeds for the land, and yet do not know enough to pay annual taxes! Preposterous! If I had my way, I would require all this class of land-sharks, Germans and everybody else, to pay their taxes promptly, under pain of forfeiture. They would find out the law in a very short time. If these foreigners come here, we have a right to prescribe the laws of getting revenue fromn them as well as from anybvody else. " I do not- see why the time should be extended to five years. N~obody would then lbe concerned about paying taxes. Such land would be unsaleable. Nobody would buy it, and I am in favor of that system of selling land for taxes that will make people prompt in the payment of the taxes. Just in proportion as we extend the time, do we give people an opportunity to become dfiatory and lazyr e t e t t e t e t I s e 1 t' r d a y 0 f I I r s f 1272 CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION TiiURS-DAY, API 4 50 EAE ADPOEIIG.1 Three and a half per cent.; and yet we are told that not less than fifty per cent. should be imposed upon the poor man who may have had the misfortune to have had his lands sold for taxes-three and a half per cent. for legitimate bus,iness, but not less than fifty per cent. for the poor man's lands. I think, sir, that this is an iniquitous imposition, and believe that a change is demanded by the great majority of the poorer classes of property-holders in the State. I know instances where men, through ignorance of our laws, have lost their property, and have not been able subsequently to redeem it. I think that some remedy sould be devised. This proposition will do no injustice. If the buyer gets twenty per cent. per annum for his money for five years, I think he is very well paid. I cannot conceive why gentlemen have so much sympathy fo.- the interests of those trading in tax-titles, and so little regard for the unfortunate who need and claim protection. Mr. HAINES, of Crook. Mr. Chairman: When I came into the hall this morning, I found on my desk a document which seems to be a speech delivered in Congress by the Hon. Samuel S. Marsnalil. ["Read it." Laughter.] I do not propose to read it, but it is pertinent to the question under consideration, nevertheless. I see here a quotation from Adam Smith: Taxes should be so levied as to occasion the least possible loss of money and enjoyment to the contributors, and the least possible impediment to the progress of national industry and wealth. Then I will make another quotation from the speaker himself, and I indorse every word that he says. Speaking of taxation in the west, as compared with taxation in some other portions of the country, he Says: The farmers of the west, with their rich lands, are blessed by heaven with bountiful harvests, and yet they find the hours of labor lengthening. They are compelled to withdraw their children from school to aid in the labors of the farm; they have not the means to build fine houses and ride in splendid carriages; they indulge in no costly luxuries, and yet at the end of the year they find it difficult to meet the demands of the tax-gatherer, and are engaged in an endless struggle to keep poverty and want from their doors. Mr. Chairman, gentlemen on this floor p are disposed to make light of taxation and the burden which taxation brings to the door of every man who lives in this country. We are wont to speak of the downtrodden and tax-ridden nations of Europe. There is not a country to day on the face of the earth that is taxed equal to this-not one. And, sir, speaking for my own locality, the taxes that we pay to-day are four per cent. upon the value of our property. On the top of that, were levied last year five hundred and seventy three special assessments. And how is it possible for the masses of the people to keep track of five hundred and seventy-three special assessments? A man has but two years to look up hisltitle, for by tax sales his lands may be sold out from under him a dozen times before he gets them secured, and yet he may have tried to pay all his taxes. The gentleman from Brown [Mr. Vandeventer] or the gentleman from Jo Day iess [Mr. Cary] says he does not know and pay no regard to it whatever. I see no reason for changing this law, and hope the amendment will not be adopted. Mr. CARY. Mr. Chairman: I hope this amendment will not be adopted. I have yet to learn of the first man in the State of Illinois who has lost his property by not paying his taxes, provided he has contested the tax title properly. There may be such a man. I have never vet known a tax title that amounted to any thing. There is, however, a large per centage of our land that does not pay any taxes, and un(der this proposition the quantity will increase. The taxes will run on for five years, then the taxes on the land, bid in by the State, will be wiped out; then the same process will be again gone through with, and there will be no tax paid. The people to be benefited by this provision of five years exemption are not the ones the gentleman from Cook [Mr. Cameron] refers to. The only class to be benefited will be the non-resident owners-speculators, who would let their land and its taxes run on for five years without paying. The object of the provision is not to benefit these people, but that each shall bear his own burden. It is well known that-tax titles amount to very little. If this extension is given, there will be more land struck off to the State; then it will run on for five years more and come back to the State again. The enee who are allowed to neglect the taxes fo)r five years, will do the same thing again; and the result will be that a muchi larger proportion of land, than now, will not pay any taxes. It is of no benefit for a poor man to let his property be sold for taxes, and very few of them ever permit it to be done Only speculators can afford to let land go without paying the taxes. If a man is hard pressed, he can better pay his taxes than to allow them to accumulate and become a large sum and then pay them with costs and increase, while non-resident speculators, hoping to escape all taxation and find some loop-hole to escape all taxation, will put off the day of reckoning to the farthest possible limit. Mr. CAVIERON. Mr. Chairman: I desire to say a word in explanation of this amendment. If it was proposed to sell the property of nonl resident land-holders once in five years, there would be some weight in the argument of the gentleman froInl JoDaviess [LYr. Cary] and the gentlemnla freom Brown [Mr. Vandeventer ]. But such;8 not the proposition. Their lands will be sold like all other property not paying taxes every year, but, under this proposition, the money will be paid by the party buying the property, instead of the party owning the property. If the State receives the money, I cannot conceive that the State receives any injury. And I canrnot see why there should be so) much sympathy on the part of gentlemen in favor of a cla~ of men who areknown to be pirates upon the misfortunes or ignorance of others. I d1o not know why there should be so much feeling exhibited. These tax-titles may not be worth much, but they are an anno3yance and the cause of frequent lit;gaticon. We can afford, moreover, under our present law, to extend the term to five rears. What, sir, has been the interest realized by the producing interests of the United States during the past yearn 319 DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. APIZIL 1 4, 1 8 70. 127a of anybody who has lost his land by tax sales. If he does not, I do. I can point him to several men who have lost their prop rty on account of tax sales, when they supposed that they paid all their taxes, too; and I agree with my colleague [Mr. Cameron] that this is in the interest of the poor people, or rather the masses of the people; for we have no poor people in this country unless they are paupers. In this State, municipalities are growiDg up everywhere. We are increasing and multiplying and complicating our taxes, and it is quite differeiat now, from what it was twenty years ago, when this Constitution that we are now living under, was adopted. Lands were cheap then, but lands now are not cheap. Thev are worth the taxes at any time. Any man who deals in tax titles, would be glad to invest his money in the tax sales at twentyfive per cent. a year, and yet the present law is that he shall have a hundred per cent. for the two years; or, in other words, if he buys my land to-day, I must pay a hundred per cent. to-morrow. There is no justice, no equity in it. Extend this time to five years, give the buyer of the tax titles five years in which to get his hundred per cent. back. It will give to the State all the revenues she levies upon the land. Everywhere. So far as the municipalities are concerned, unless they can learn to tax more liglitly than they are taxing; unless they can learn economy in their expenditures, ,it is time that we bring them up somewhere; and I do not know but it is as well to begin here, as anywhere else. I am in favor of this extension of time; I believe it is right, and I believe the people, of the State demand it. Mr. WAIT. Mr. Chairman: I neither like the fifth nor the sixth sectioiu of this article on revenue. It seems to me that it is gotten up too much in the intere,st of parties who purchase lands at tax sales. The time has come that there is not a large amount of land held in the State of Illinois by nonresidents, and those who are non-residents generally pay their taxes in this State, for they are able to do s(-,, and prefer to pay their taxes rather than to pay one hundred per cent. in two years, on th6 purchase money at the time, and ten per cent. upon the subseque-nt taxes that have been paid. They are not the class of men ho ne e 12 COSTITUT1OAb ()OETION THURSDAY, Mr. HANNA. You do not in the new. This provides they shall have the privilege of redeeming, and that the time shall not be less than two years-and that is all it says about it. The Constitution says it may be one, or five, or ten per cent., and declares simply that the time shall not be less than two years, and there stops. It says nothing about the amount necessary to be paid to redeem, and has not prohibited the Legislature from extending the time. A word further on this question It is a very different class that allow the land to be sold in the county in which I reside, than in the county the gentleman resides in. The poor men and foreigners pay their taxes promptly. There is a large amount of land owned by non-resi dents and speculators. They find flaws in the proceeding before sale, make up their minds that their property is entirely safe, and so allow their property to be sold. Titles are of no account. It is to cut off these abuses that we are anxious for a more simple process. I have listened to the gentlemen from Cook [Mr. Medill and MAr. Haines] who have spoken on the subject of equality of taxation.What equality is there in taxation when one man pays his taxes, and another man who stands by says, "Go seil my lands, it does not hurt me;" and that has been said all over this State, within the last few years, with perfect impunity. I know men owning large tracts of land in the southern part of the State. They are non-residents. They have carefully examined the manner in which lands are assessed and listed. Judgment is entered on their lands before the time comes for sale, and they go home. There are men who have refused, year after year, to pay taxes on large plots of land, knowing that the tax titles are of no account. I ne er saw a poor man who was not prompt to pay his taxes. In Southern Illinois they are more prompt than others. There are a few Germans there, and one county settled most altogether by E ngl is h, and they pay their taxes promptly. There are other portions owned by gentlemen in New York, Ohio and other States, who refuse to pay their taxes. Mr. HAINES, of Cook. In your county, do you pay six hundred different taxes in one year? We have paid five hundred and seventy-three special taxes, and twenty seven other taxes. Mr. HANNA. I think that is a good cause for emigrating from any country. Mr. HAINES, of Cook. We are oabliged to live under the Constitution and laws uof the State, and we would like to be considered. If the gentleman doubts my statement, I will bring him evidence of what I assert. Mr. HANNA. I take it that everything said is true, for I have known nothihng to the contrary. Still it takes me by surprise. Myr. aAINES, of Cook. We pay five hundred and seventy-three special assessments and numerous other special taxes. I will bring them to the gentleman tomorrow. Mr. HANNA. It would take up too much of my valuable time in this Convention. I have no desire to go ~through that programme. I am well aware how gentlemen may be embarrassed by paying five or six different taxes, and if we have any taxes beyond these, we get discouraged. There is another question. I have never heard that it lightened the subject to put off the time of payment. It is no benefit to the rich or the po or man. If we give a man two years to redeem hi s land and he will not do it, he is just as illy prepared to do it in five years, or twenty vears, because every year the burden becomes greater and greater. There will be a tax sale one year for fifty dollars; next year it will be seventy five dollars, and next year one hundred dollars, and so on. I believe in this system of paying as one goes. I believe it is easier for all classes of men to pay their taxes annually, than to let them go on and accumulate. I have no fith in this credit system. The State of Illinois should levy no more taxes than is absolutely necessary, provide for the collection of the taxes promptly every year, and then collect equally from all classes and from all kinds of property. Any other system is not just. This provision does not provide or limit the time to two years, but that the time to redeem shall not be less than two years, and that the Legislature shall fix the manner of redemption. I hope the section as reported will be adopted The question: being upon the amendment offered by Mr. Cameron, to strike out "two" and insert "five," it was not agreed to. Mr. HAINES, of Lake. Mr. Chairman: I move to strike out "two" and insert "four." The amendment was not agreed to. Mr. NEECE. Mr. Chairman: I offer the following amendment. The Clerk read the amendment offered by Mr. Neece, as follows: Insert after the word "thereof," in the fourth line, the following: "And to minors, until two years after they shall become of lawful age." The amendment was not agreed to. Mr. ROSS. Mr. Cl-hairman: I move to strike out the whole section, and insert section four of the Constitution of 1848. Mr. HAINES, of Cook. Section four, article nine, Mlr. Chairman, the gentleman means, I suppose. Mr. ROSS. I do that, Mr. Chairman, because it requires a personal notice to occupants of the land. We have had that provision in operation for over twenty years, and it will give better satisfaction, I, think, than anything we can offer. The CHtAIRMAN. Trhe gentleman will send up his substitute to the Clerk to be read. The Clerk read the substitute offered bay Mr. Ross, as follows: SEC. 4. Hereafter no purchaser of any land or towel lot, at any sale of lands or town lots for taxes due, either to this Statee or any counlty, or incorporated town or city within the same, or at any sale for taxes or levies authorized by the laws of this State, shall be entitled to a. deed for the lands or town lots so purchased, until he or she shall have complied with the following conditionrs, to-wit: Such purchaser shall se.rve or cause to be served, a written notice of such pur chase on every person in possession of such land or town lot, three months before the expiration of the time of redemnption on such sale;* in which notice he shall state when he purchased the land or town lot, the description of the land or lot he has purchased, and when the timle of redemption will expire. In like manner he shall serve on the person or persons in whose name or nlames such land or lot is taxed, a similar Written notice, if such t hat of the people' T he p eople a re the government. The g overnm ent must be just to the people. In order that we may perpetuate this government, it must exist in the affections of the people. At the present time a man cannot redeem from a tax sale unless he pays twice asmuch as the price for which the property was sold. Is there any other redemption so extortionate? A man can redeem from a sale upon a mortgage, or other indebtedness, upon which there is any redemption, by paying the amount of the indebtedness, with the cost, but in this instance the State has instituted a law, by which a poor man, if his property is sold, must redeem in two years, and pay double the amount. It is not right that this should be the law. It is true that the State must provide for its own preservation, and revenue is one means of so providing. When a revenue can be provided by mild means, hasher means should not be resorted to. At one time money was worth twenty-five per cent. all over this State. At the present time it is worth only about ten per cent. Money is not so useful, and its use is not worth so much in this State as it was at one time. The government should recognize this fact, and not require that a man should pay double the amount within two years. I say that we must be just to the poor man, and recollect that it is difficult at times for a man to raise sufficient money to pay his taxes. It may seem strange to gentlemen who are earning from five thousand dollars to twenty thousand dollars per year, that other men are so poor that they cannot pay their taxes, but yet it is true, to my kno-wledge, in the country, and I think it must be so in the city; and it seems to me that, as a time for redemption, five y.ears should be granted. It is a transfer of title,-taking the property of an individual, and vesting it in t-h4 government,-taking away a man's homestead or his lands, for the support of the government. Should this be done in act arbit~rary or cruel manner? It seems to tae that it should not. If the government takes your property, or mine, it should give us ample time to redeem; and if we are poor or sick, or in such circumstances that we cannot raise funds for the payment of taxes in the present tense, it ought to give us opportunity to redeem when such disabilities have been removed, and thereby enable us to save our land and homesteads. Mr. HANNA. Mr. Chairman: I trust the gentleman is under a misapprehensionu as to the effect of this section, as it now stands. I hope the amendment of the gentlemnan from Cook [Mr. Haines], will not be adopted. This section does notsay that a deed shall be taken in two years. It may be extendedl to any numl ber of years, but shall not be less than two years, and contains no other limitation as to time. It nowhere prohibits the Legislature from giving ten or twenty years, if they *ee fit, but provides it shall not be less than two years. If the Legislature wishes to extend it beyond that time, they have the power to do so. The gentleman says it takes one hundred per cent. to redeem the lands. -MSr. HAINES, of Cook. Do you find one hundred per cent. in the old Constitution! 1274 CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION THuRSDAY, APRIL 14, 1870. DEBATES AXD POOEEDJGS. 1275 peso or pesn hl eiei h onyo utc,myb iedotfo e htteei ied-rnei h of justice, may be wiped out from the legislation of Illinois, and we may get rid of the extraordinary expenses growimg out of it. Mr. CHURCH. Mr. Chairman: I c -Incur in the sentiment expressed by the honorable gentleman from Fulton [Mr. Ross], in believing that this plan of equalization should not be made a portion of the Constitution. It is but an experiment at best, in augurated by law. It is competent for the General Assembly to continue it if it should be found beneficial and just to all parts of the State. If left alone by this Convention it will be for them to modify it hereafter. I can conceive many reasons why this section should not be inserted in the Constitution. I can see very many objectionls to its future operation in view of other laws now in force, not now necessaryo for me to mention; but without designing to take up the attention of the committee in the discussion of its principles, I do not see that thb friends of the measure can offer any good reasoni for putting it into the Constitution, as it is a species of legislation proper for the General Assembly and entirely withini their power. I hope, sir, that it will be stricken out. Mr. McCOY. Mr. Chairman: I alm glad, sir, to find this voice coming up from the various parts of the State with reference to this provision. I think if there is one provision that meets w ith disfavor in the whole State, it is this. There never was a body of equal size and force, that in my judgment has rendered so great dissatisfaction in the State as that board of equalization. It is hardly necessary, sir, to point out particular manifestations of injustice in the action of the board. It pervades their whole action. It is an expensive organization that should not be heard of in this State. I hope that when the Legislature comes together, they will pass laws by which the property of the State will be valued at its actual cash value, (and not upon a fictitious value,) under oath; and when we have that, then there will be ino kind of necessity for the organization of a little independent kind of Legislature here to vote itself perquisites, as this Board of Equalization has done, and which has put upon a basis the pQor, miserable personal property of this State, and made it pay a State tax equivalent to the best and finest in the State. It is not necessary to enter into any discussion of it at the present tiime. When that magnificent body of representatives of one hundred and fifty-three members and fifty-three senators, shall come down here from all parts of the State of Illinois, let them take that subject into consideration, and if they want any such assistance as that, let them pass a law for the adoption of this orga nization; but let us discard any such proposition here and abolish it —I almost said in disgust, but I will not say sob Mr. GOODELL. Mr. Chairman: This section seven provides that the Legisla - ture shall provide for the cqualization of the assessment of taxes for: State purposes so as to, as nearly as may be, make the same ratable throughout the State. It does not pretend to say how it shall be done, but says it shall be done. Now, if gentlemen will look over the Auditor's report of last year they will person or persons shall reside in the county where such land or lot shall be situated; and in the event that the person or persons in whose name or names the land or lot is taxed, do not reside in the county, such purchaser shall publish such notice in some newspaper printed in such county; and if no newspaper is printed in the county, then in the nearest newspaper that is published in this State, to the county in which such lot or land is situated; which notice shall be inserted three times; the last time not less than three months before the time of redemption shall expire. Every such purchaser, by himself or agent, shall, before he shall be entitled to a deed, make an affidavit of his having complied with the conditions of this section, stating particularly the facts relied on as such compliance; which affidavit shall be delivered to the person authorized by law to execute such tax deed, and which shall by him be filed with the officer having custody of the records of lands and lots sold for taxes and entries of redemption in the county where such land or lot shall lie, to be by such officer entered on the records of his office, and carefully preserved among the files of his office: and which record or affidavit shall be prima facie evidence that such notice has been given. Any person swearing falsely in such affidavit shall be deemed guilty of perjury, and punished accordingly. In case any person shall be comnpelled, under this section, to publish a notice in a newspaper, then, before any person who may have a right to redeem such land or lot from such tax sale shall be permitted to redeem, he or she shall pay the officer or person who by law is authorized to receive such redemption money, the printer's fee for publishing such notice, and the expenses of swearing or affirming to the affidavit, and filing the same. The CHAIRMAN. The question is upon the substitute proposed by the gentleman from Fulton [Mr, Ross]. A division was ordered. The committee divided, when, there being sixteen in the affirmative and twentyeight in the negative, the substitute was not agreed to. The question being on the adoption of section six, a division was ordered. The committee divided, when, there being thirty-four in the affirmative, sectiont six was agreed to. The Clerk real section seven, as follows: SEC. 7. The General Assembly shall provide for an equalization throughout the State of the assessment of State taxes. Mir. ROSS. Mr. Chairman: I move to strike out section seven. I regard it as entirely unnecessary. This board of equalization is looked upon with a great deal of distrust in our section o}f the State, and we would rather not provide in the Constitution for mnaking it permanent. We prefer leaving it to the Legislature, with the hope in -fu Srngihe:field} angd has becohm mhe burdenrsome to the people by its extraordinary es:penses, and iniquitous by its unjust determinations. I received a letter a few days ago from an intelligent farmer in the north part of Fulton counlty, stating that his land!yri-g upton our side of the county line is taxed higher than that across the line in Peoria county —the same quality of laud; that our county board raised the taxes twelve per cents, and the State board raised it twenty-four per cent —when it was higher before than the other lanld. I am not ill favor of incorpo~rating any such provision in the Conlstitution. I know a great manay of the people of this State are looking forward with anxiety to the meeting of anoather Legislature when this foul blot —this pretease APRIL 14) 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1275 see that there is a wide di -Terence iA the assessments. Taking a senatorial district, for instance, in some counties cattle are valued at five or six dollars 9, head, aud in other counties in the same district at sixteen dollars a head-a difference of three hundred per cent.; hcrses and mules the same way. Now, sir, it is evident to me that any gentlenian, after examining this report carefully, will be convinced that we ought to have some board or some manner of equalization of the taxes. There is over three hundred per cent. difference made in the same senatorial districts in the valuation of horses, cattle and mules. Now, this article does not pretend to say how this equalization shall be made, but it recognizes the fact that it shall be done in some way, and leaves the Legislature to do it as in their j udgrnent may seem- best. I hope the provision will be adopted. Because we have one board of equalization, and they have abused their privileges, that is no reason why we should discard this principle. Property in the State ought to be taxed according to its real value to make it equal or just. Jf we have tried one method and it has been abused, let us instruct the Legislature to adopt some plan that will be just to all the people of the State. I hope gentlemen will examine the Auditor's report before they vote upon the question. Mr. HAY. Mr. Chairman: I hope, before the vote is taken upon this question, that the committee will duly consider the questioi, involved. This provision does not commit, the Legislature to any particular mode of equalizing assessments. It does not indicate that it shall be done through a board, or through any expensive machinery. It (.I,oes not commit the Legislature to the existino, means that it has adopted for the purpose of securing the equalization of assessments, but it does provide that there shall be, some means of equalizing assessmeiits, and if I understand anything about the former experience of this State, that has been demonstrated to be an actual necessity I know some gentlemen, from their allusio.us here, have had their, attention called to the former reports of the Auditor of this State, as to the manner of as 1q76 COSTJTUTIOXAL CONWENTIO THURSDAY, It will be seen that the system is im perfect, and will operate very unequally i upon tax payers in every county. It is t not horses that constitute the only prop - erty value from which taxes are obtained, and for that very reason this board oi equalization has run into great inequali ties in assessing taxes upon the inhabi. tants of different localities, not looking M entirely to the whole amount of taxable A property, and to what that taxable h property does consist of. In one county cattle are valued low, while merchandise has probably been valued higher. In answer to the demand for the coin stitutional provision upon that subject, we have got the present system of equaliza tion, without any requisition on the Con stitution. Leave it to the people and their representatives to determine what they shall have. I hope we will strike out this section. Let the people manage this matter. It ouught not to be restricted by a constitu tional clause. In the counties of Bureau Henry and Lee there are large districts of swamp lands, sold by those counties as low as twelve and a half cents per acre. But the board of equalization valued them at $4 and $5 per acre. I imagine they were not credited with these lands, sold on ten years' credit, at from ten cents to $1.50 at:' acre. Mr. TINCHER. What are lands in your county worth? Mr. DEMENT. At from twenty-five dollars to ten cents an acre. Mr. TINCHER. Have you got any that sell less than $5 or $2 50? Mr. DEMENT'. If you will get me a cash customer, I will answer you. I can sell you land at two dollars and a half an acre, and you would make a bad bargain if you bought. Mr. TINCHER. How much is there? Mr. DEMENT. How much do you want to buy-? [Laughter.] Mr. ROSS. I rise to a question of order. The gentlemen should not enter into a contract here. Mr. DEIMENT. Mr. Chairman: I ami very sorry to be incredulous as to any thing the very responsible gentleman would say, but I do not believe that he would take the land at two dollars and fifty cents per acre. I believe he would be unwise if he did, and I do not intend that he shall make a false impression upon this Convention. I appeal to the gentleman from HIenry [Mr. Wait] and the gentleman from Bu reau [Mr. Whiting], to bear me out when saying that there is land in those counties and in Lee county that is not worth two dollars and fifty cents per acre. Mr. WHITING. Mr. Chairman: I do not know that I should be very pertina cious, whether this section be retained or stricken out, but for the reasons given for striking it out, which seem to be that the board of equalization have not discharg ed their duties satisfactorily in equalizing the taxes. Is it a remedy for that evil to allow each county to assess itself, and then have no equalization at all? If that is the argument for striking out, I am disposed to retain. it. I will bear testimony with the gentle man from Lee [Mr. Dement] that we have perhaps ten thousand acres of lands in what we call the "Winnebago swamp," which are not worth two dollars and a half per acre, and from what I know of -Lee, she has lands worth as little as 7 these. s But this principle of equalization, in - these days of high State taxes, is one that , the people will insist upon. And I will f further say, that I think the board of - equaliz ation i s hardly as much of a fail ure as gentlemen declare it to be. I be lieve they have approximately done very much good. The machinery may need changing somewhat, and yet the principle be retained. The question being upon the motion to strike out section seven, a division was - ordered. The committee -livided, when, there being twenty-four in the affirmative ^ and twenty-five in the negative, the mot lion was not agreed to. Mr. CODY. Mr. Chairman: I move ; the committee now rise, report progress and ask leave to sit again. ["No," "no." "Let's have a vote."] The CHAIRMAN. At what hour? Mr. CODY. I withdraw the motion, Mr. Chairman. Mr. WELLS. Mr. Chairman: I re. new it; that the committee rise and re port, and ask leave to sit again to-morrow morning, at half past nine o'clock. The question being on the motion of Mr. Wells, a division was ordered. The committee divided, when, there being twenty-four in the affirmative and twenty-five in the negative, the motion was not agreed to. The CHAIRMAN. The question is upon the adoption of section seven. Mr. CHURCH. Mr. Chairman: Up on this question I desire to call the at tention of the committee to a portion of section two. I was in hopes that after the recess we would come back with a determination not to load down the Constitution which we propose to submit to the people, with unnecessary provisions, which will be quite obnoxious to the people in many portions of the State. Now, sir, the language of section seven will undoubtedly call to the minds of the people, a certain law, now in force, and to its operation. And it will be con strued to mean no more nor less than the continuation of that law. They have al ready so understood the report of the standing committee now under considera tion. Now, that there is a manifest justice ill taxes being equ~al, and according to the value of property, is true. It has been remarked of our action that we have been proceeding as if we were framing the de tails of laws for the State, for adl time to .~ome. InI this regard, I must admit that our action will become obnoxious to that charge, should we adopt this section sev en. Under the Constitution that we are now here to amend, the power and duty of the General Assembly to provide that equality of taxation has never been de nied. On the contrary, the General As sembly have acted in that regard, and we are now under the operation of a law passed for the purpose of equalization. In section tw, of this article every power and every duty that is imposed by section seven exists.'I will read it: SuE. 2. The General Assembly shall pro vide such further revenue as may be needful, by levying a tax, by valuation, so that every person anld corporation shall pay a tax in pro portion to the value of his or her property — such value to be ascertained by some person or persons, to be elected or Appointed in such have no r eredress against that method of assessing property? Wa e do not say that it shall be assessed by means of a b oard of equalizatio n, bu t that, by some means, assessments throughout the State should be equalized. I do not know what sort of iniquity may be practiced under the pretense of assessing property, if this provision is not retained. Mr. GOODELL. Mr. Chairman: In Alexander county the average value of horses, according to the assessment, is fifty-seven dollars and twenty-nine cents. In Williamson county it is fifty-three dol lars and fo)rty-one cents. In Ogle county it is eighteen dollars fifty-eight cents. There i3about three hundred per cent. difference. There is even more difference in cattle than there is in mules and horses. Mr. McCOY. Do you know the quality of the horses? Mr. GOODELL. I suppose that horses average about the same as human nature does, unaided by grace. [Laughter.] Mr. McCOY. They average rather poorly then. [Laughter.] Mr. TINCHER. Mr. Chairman: There must be some mode for the equalization of the taxes of the State. To say that the board of equalization have not answered the purposes for which they were elected, is no argument against the system. We might say that Legislatures have failed to do all that was expected of them; and, to carry it a little further, the people may say, after our adjournment, that the Convention was a failure, and that there ought never to be another. If gentlemen will take the Auditor's report, they will find just the inequalities throughout the State that the gentleman from Iro,quois [Mr. Goodell] has referred to. Iii quite a number of the-counties in the northern part of the State assessors have actually valued property less, year after year. In other parts of the State, less wealthy and less able to pay, they have paid a great deal higher rate of tax for the same kind of property, and I want the provision there, not only that the Legislature may, but that they shall, provide some means by which the taxes of the State shall be equalized. Let us retain this provision. It is a good one. Laws ought to be made to require every man to bear his equitable proportion of taxes for the support of the State government. Mr. DEMENT.A Mr. Chairman: I hope this section will be striken out, so that judgment and discretion may be exercised upon experience hereafter. The systemn of equalizing taxation, under-the present law, is a system of unequalizing it. If we takescounty where tile rate per acre on land is five dollars, and others where it is higher, the system is to raise the taxes a per centage upon all the property. Say the valuation of Sa.:~~amon, or any other county, shall have the valuation r ised twenty, fifty, anAd, as sometimes the rate has been raiseA, seventyfive per cent., that amount has been added to the valuation of tile whole property of the county. Perhaps they have been induced to do this from the unequal valuation of horses and sheep. Gentlemen may find farms and prope-rty valued at a certain amount, but because the board of equalization had discovered that they were valued very low, they add seventy five per cent. to the valuation of all property in that couS~y. t t s t s c r s 12'6 CONSTIT'UTIONAL CON'VENTION T-HURSDAY, APRIL 14, 1870. DEBATES AD PROCEEDIXGS. 1277 productive of great good to the advancement of science and true politics among the people Help them, we pray Thee, so to engraft Thy truth into their organic law that our people may be enabled to escape those evils and er r rors which result from wrong courses of act tion. Finally, we pray Thee, that Thou wilt so direct us that we may attain at last to the Heavenly Kingdom and Thy glory, through T Christ our redeemer. Amen. READING OF TEE JOURNAL. The Secretary proceeded to read the journal of the last day's proceedings when- Mr. BUXTON, Mr. President: I move that the further reading of the journal be dispensed with. The motion was agreed to. JUDICIAL CIRCUITS. Mr. BUXTON offered the following resolution, which was read by the Secre tary, and not agreed to: Resolved, That the Committee on Judicial Circuits be instructed to divide the State (exc lusive of the county of Cook), into judicial circuits, not exceeding twenty in number, and that they report at the earliest practicable time. PETITIONS AND COIMMUNICATIONS. The PRESIDENT. Petitions and communications are now in order. THE BURDENS OF FEMALE SUFFRAGE. Mr. WELLS presented the protest of M! irs. A. G. Curtenius, and thirteen hundred and eighty other ladies of Peoria against throwing upon women "the burdens, duties and responsibilities of suffrage."' The protest was laid upon the table, to be taken up and considered with the report of the Committee on Suffrage. APPOINTMENTS ON COMMITTEES. The PRESIDENT. The Chair will announce the appointment of Mr. Tubbs, o f Warren county, on the Executive Committee, in place of Mr. Kirkpatrick, de-. ceased; on the Committee on Congressional Apportionment, in the place of Mr. Henry, resigned; and on the Committee upon Canal and Canal lands, in place ofMr. Kirkpatrick, deceased. Also, the appointment of Mr. Forman on the Committee on Public Accounts and Expenditures, in the place of Mr. Henry resigned; and on the Committee upon Judicial Circuits, in the place of Mr. Kirkpatrick, deceased; and on the Committee on Internal Improvements, in the place of Mr. Henry, resigned. Resolutions and propositions for adoption or reference, are now in order. STATE PENITENTIARY. P Mr. WALL. Mr. President: I desire r to introduce a I esolution for adoption. The Secretary read the resolution offered by Mr. Wall, as follows: kResolved, That the Committee on Penitentiary and Reformatory Institutions be instructed to report to the Convention whether it is expedient to incorporate in the Constitution a provision that the penitentiary ought never to be operated by the State, but should be leased upon such conditions as the General Assembly may provide. Mr. WALL. Mr. President: In the early part of January I introduced a resolution, calling upon the Auditor for a statement of the expenditures made by the State on account of this institution, since the first of January, 1867. The Auditor reported about the twenty-fourth of Janurv (and the report will be found on our journal) that the penitentiary had cost the State, from the first of January, wanner as the General Assembly shall direct, and not otherwise. I insist that the duty is imposed there on the General Assembly to so arrange the details of the revenue laws that every person and corporation shall pay a tax equal to the value of his, her or its property. Then, as' everything is contained in this general provision, which is strictly consistent with the duties of Constitutional Conventions in forming constitutional laws, why insert another provision that cannot contain any further power, or impose any further duty-by a species of legislation that is likely to be misunderstood and misinterpreted in different parts of the State, and challenge objections? Why should we think it necessary, I say, to insert section seven? I believe it is not only unnecessary, but is likely to do much evil, without accomplishing any good whatever. [" Question," " question," " question."] The question being on section seven, a division was ordered. The committee divided, when, there being twenty in the affirmative and twenty-eight in the negative, section seven was not agreed to. Mr. HAY. Mr. Chairman: I move that the committee rise, report progress, and ask leave to sit again at half-past nine o'clock to-morrow morning. The motion was agreed to. 1867, to the time of the rep or t of the same, seven hundred and fifty-three thou and dollars and something more. From my analysis of this report, I concluded that the expense of operati ng the institu tion, independent of the wages, the State ha s expended for supplies and tools, pur chased of the old lessees, during the time that I have mentioned, was about five hundred thousand dollars. My analysis may not be accurate. It may not be based upon the right view; but that was the conclusion I came to, from such analysis as I was able to make. I soon after that, introduced a resolu tion something like this, which was re ferred to the Committee on the Peniten tiary and Reformatory Institutions. That committee has never reported, and I pre sume that by some mishap or other, the resolution has never reached them; and for the purpose of calling the attention of the committee to the matter again, and of inducing them to give us a report on that subject, I have introduced this reso lution. It is simply a resolution requesting that committee to report whether, in their opinion, it is expedient to incorporate such a provision in the Constitution. I ask that the resolution be adopted. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the adoption of the resolution. The Secretary will read. The Secretary read the resolution offer ed by Mr. Wall, as follows: That the Committee on Penitentiary and Reformatory Institutions be instructed to re port to the Convention whether it is expedi ent to incorporate in the Constitution a pro vision that the penitentiary ought never to be operated by the State, and should be leased upon such conditions as the General Assembly may provide. Mr. MERRIAM. Mr. President: I wish to say, before the vote is taken upon that resolution, that probably every gentleman in this Convention knows that the question in regard to the penitentiary, whether it should be operated by the State, or whether it should be leased, was, during the last session of the Legislature, and perhaps some sessions before, a strict. ly party question. There was one political party in the Legislature in favor of leasing it, and. there was another party in favor of the present system. I hope the Convention will leave that matter with the Legisla-ture, unless we are going into party ques e MIr. WALL. Mr. President. I trust the Convention will permit me to say a single word. I am sure there is no gentleman in this Convention who is further from desiring to introduce questions of a party nature into our discussions than I am. I am not aware that this penitentiary matter is a party affair at all. If it was so in the Legislature of 1867, I do not know it. I was not a member of that body; I was not here very much. If it has ever been made a party measure since then, I do not know it} but whether it has or has not been made a party measure since then, there is, in my judgment, a great abuse that needs correcting. The report of the Auditor shows that this institution, which, while it was operated under lessees, was of no expense to the State, but on the contrary, returned to the State a small bonus, since it has been taken in charge by the State, has cost us for maintenance and operation BILL OF RIGHiTS. Mr. BUXTON. Mr. President: I desire to introduce a resolution, and have it referred to the Committee on Bill of Rights. I do not care about having it read. [The resolution is as follows:] Resolved, That equal and exact justice shall be granted to, and exacted of, every corporation, association and individual in the State. The PRESIDENT. The resolution will be received and referred. ADJOURNMlENT. Mr. ENGLISH. Mr. President: I move that the Convention do now adjourn. The motion was agreed to. So the Convention (at five o'clock and twenty minutes) adjourned. SEVENTY-FI RST DAY. FRIDAY, April 15, 1870. The Convention met at nine o'clock A. m., and was called to order by the President. PRAYER. Prayer was offered by the Rev. Mr. Ingmire, of Springfield, as follows: Our Father, who art in Heaven, we acknowledge Thy guardian care and loving kindness in preserving our lives, and in watching over us so that we are permitted to come back in health and strength to attend to the duties of this Convention this morning. We thank Thee for the refreshing rain that has fallen upon the earth, and all the gifts of Thy providence with which we are endowed; and as the Author of life and being and all we have and all we are, we desire to render heart-felt gratitude to Thee, and pray Thee that Thou wilt help us to show our gratitude by an entire submission to Thy will, and by doing those duties which the great and Almighty God hath enjoined upon us. We entreat Thee that Thou wilt grant Thy blessing to rest upon the members of this Convention, and all its officers and employes, and aid this body, we pray Thee, so to amend and revise the Constitution of the State that it shall be acceptable to all the people ande 320 i s c e t t q t I API?.IL 14) 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1277 i 4 & 1278 Go STITUTIOAL COVETiO FRIDAY, subject for the Legislature. I hope there will be no more time spent upon'it, but that we will proceed to finish up this Constitution and submit such work as we are able to agree upon to the people. If I had not made these remarks, I should move to lay the resolution upon the table, but, as it is, I will not do so, lest it would be thought unfair by those who do not agree with me. Mr. CAMERON. Mr. President: I move to lay the resolution upon the table. The Secretary read the resolution offered by Mr. Wall, as follows: tResolved, That the Committee on Penitentiary and Reformatory Institutions be instructed to report to the Convention whether it is expedient to incorporate in the Constitution a provision that the penitentiary ought never to be operated by the State, and should be leased upon such conditions as the General Assembly may provide. The yeas and nays were ordered. The Secretary proceeded to call the roll. Mr. ROSS (when his name was called) said: Mr. President: Regarding this as a proper subject for a Legislature, and not for a Constitutional Convention, I vote "Aye." The result was then announced-yeas 29; nays 27 —as follows: city, township, town or district whatever. or the inhabitants thereof, or the property therein, from their proportionate share of taxes to be levied for State purposes, nor shall commutation for such taxe s be a uthorized in any form whatsoever. Mr. ROSS. I maove to strike it o ut. I do not propose to enter into any argument on this question, w h ich has been discusse d so fully and frequently in the Constitutional Convention. It is an other effort on the part of the Convention to repe al the law of 1869, favori ng the construction of railroads in the State of Illin oi s. I had hope d, a fter the full di s cussion we h ad upon the subject a fe w weeks ago, and the apparen t det ermin ation of the cour vention not to interfere with or disturb that law, but leave it to the Legislature, that it would not again be revived in the Convention. I d o n ot say any thing now with the hope of turning back the purpose of this Convention to engraft legislative provisions in the Con stitution which are ol)jectionable to the people, and will tend to cause its defeat. We we re not sent here for th e purpose of repeali ng laws o f the Legislature. We have spent more than half of our time already in the investigation and discussion of questions foreign to the objects and purposes for which the people desired this Constitutional Convention to convene. If we had confined ourselves to the proper legitimate subjects of the amendment and revision of the Constitution of the State of Illinois, we might have been through with our la bors and have submitted them to the people three weeks ago. But there is a persistent determination by members of the Convention, and, I regret to say, by a majority of the mem. bers, to go outside the legitimate objects of a Constitutional Convention, and engraft upon the Constitution not only leg. islation, but special legislation, of a very questionable character, such as should not be put into the Constitution of the State of Illinois. I deem it proper to say thus much in justification of the course I have heretofore pursued. I do not propose to enter into any argument upon this subject, but simply to ask gentlemen to consider, before they attempt to load down this Constitution by special legislation which is objectionable to the people, and will tend to defeat it. Mr. CHURC:H. Mr. Chairman: I should be unwilling to allow the remarks of the gentleman from Flulton [Mr. Ross]l to go out as having been based upon proper and correct premises, because, if founded upon proper premises, they are sound. The remark of the gentleman that an objection to our action here is, that we ~have been trying to legislate too much, and include in the Constitution to be submitted, too many affirmative propositions upon subjects which are strictly within the powver and province of the law-making power of the State, has not been without some foundation. Such is not, however, the case regarding the section under consideration, but, upon the contrary, it is a section (whether proper or improper to be adopted in the Constitution) which is not obnoxious to the objection raised by the gentleman from Fulton [Mr. Ross], but it is simply a limitationl, and is a question fairly presented, whether, in the tlture, the enact more than two hundred thousand dollars per annum. If my analysis is correct, here is a n abu se that needs to be reme died, and to be remedied by this Conv ention. The people of the S tate, for party purposes, cannot afford to pay out two hundred thousand dollars per annuim. If it is a party measureit is aaya very expensive one. So far as I am concerned, it is not a party question, nor a party measure, in any view of it. If the gentleman regards it as a matter of party interest, and as such desires to sustain the present abuses, then he and I disa gree. I simply ask that the committee report whether, in their judgment, it is expedient to incorporate such a provision. I do not ask the Convention to indorse either one side or the other of the propositions, but that we may have a report from the committee, giving us the facts as they are; and if the apparent abuse, is in reality no abuse at all, then nothing need be done about it, and nobody will be injured. Mr. CHURCH. Mr. President: Into that question I have not looked, to see whether it has ever presented itself in the form of a party question, lately or not. Earlier in the history of the State, I was somewhat familiar with the operations of the State penitentiary, with reference to its expenses. I know that formerly it was the theory that the penitentiary was leased, and the theory was that the penitentiary was a source of revenue to the State. - Practically, however, I do know, that at every session of the General Assembly I had any connection with, or with the history of which I was in any way familiar, immense appropriations were asked for, and by some influence, driven through, and driven through under the operation of the previous question, forbidding all opportunity ,of investigating into the facts and figures of the case, so that instead of revenue being derived to the State, I can say that it has always been a source of great ex_pense to the State. Mr. DEMENT.- Will thes gentleman allow me to ask him a question? Mr. CHURCH. If it is for the purpose of causing me to take up time upon subjects that do not belong in the Con. vention, I will not submit to it; but I will answer any question for informatlion.~ Mr.-DEMIENT. I w iilstae- as ques * %ion that I may be free from any ~uclJ). imputation. I wish to ask the gent~leman whether or not these large appropriations were not exclusively for the construction of the penitentiary and not for its current expenses -for feeding and clothing convicts, or for salaries of officers? Mr. CHURCH. My answver to that will be to refer she gentleman from Lee [Mr. Dement] to the penitentiary appropriations of 1859. I refer him also to the officiala proceedings of the General Assembly of 1859, to let him investigate those items, see the manner in which the appropriation was passed in the house of representatives, and find the inibrmation without calling upon me for it. There were others who saw the same thing. Bult, sir, I did not design to go into a discussion of either principles or figuress connected with the penitenltiary, further than to say that it is a subject that does not belong to this Convelation. It is a Allen of Alex.,Ellis, Abbott, English, Anderson, Forman, Archer, Fox, Bowman, Fuller, Bromwell, Gamble, Cody, King, Cross, Moore, Dement, Neece, Allen of Crfd. Emmerson, Robinson, Anthony, Haines of L'k, Snyder, Atkins, Hankins, Skinner, Billings, Hanna, Springer, Brown, Hart, Truesdale, Browning, Hayes, Turner, Bryan, McDowell, Underwood, Coolbaugh, Medill, Wheaton, Craig, Parks, Mr. President-29. Cummings, Pillsbury, So the motion of Mr. Cameron to lay on the table the resolution offered by Mr. Wall, was agreed to. fREVENUE. The PRESIDENT. The hour has arrived fixed for consideration of the revenue article in Committee of the Whole, and unless objection shall be made, the Convention will bedeclared resolved into Committee of the Whole, to consider the article. So the Convention, as in Committee of the Whole (MAr. Sedgwick in the chair), resumed the consideration of the report of the Committee upon Revenue. The CHAIRMAN. The question is now on the adoption of section eight. The Clerk read section eight, as follows:, SEC. 8. The General Assembly shall have no power to release or discharge any county, COSTITUTIONAL COXYENTION FRIDAY, 1278 YEIS. Bayne,. Harwood, Benjamin Hay Buxton, Hil-r.p, Cameron, McCoy, Cary, Merriam, Chvreh, Parker, Eldredge, Perley, Goodell, Peirce, Goodhue, Poage, Haines of Co' k,Rice, Ross, Sedgwick, Sherrill, Tubbs, Wagner, Wait, Wells, Wright, Whiting-29. NAYS. Scholfi'eld, Sharp' Suth,,rland, Tincher, Vandeventer, wall Washburn, Wendli W i I s o , n-t. ABSENT, OR NOT VOTING. APRIL 15, 1870. DEBATES AM) PROOEEDJGS. 129 the habit, for I do not know how long, of having a remission of State taxes, by reason of the floods that wash off their buildings and disable them from paying taxes. This is simply a safeguard for the future, thrown around the revenues of the State, whereby all will receive equal benefits, and be subjected to equal burdens. This does not disturb existing rights, nor affect the credit of the bonds of the municipalities heretofore issued. I believe it is the duty of this Convention to adopt such a restriction. 1 should feel that my duty had not been discharged, if I suffered it to be stricken out without putting in my protest. Mr. HAY. Mr. Chairman: I will state, confining myself to the section immediately under consideration, that it was the intention of the Committee on Revenue, by this section, to provide against a dangerous species of legislation that was springing up in our State. The matter of the character of these laws has been adverted to heretofore on several occasions, leaving out of the question the particular law to which the gentleman from Fulton [Mr. Ross] refers-to a species of legislation that was rapidly increasing-to the prac tice, under various pretexts, of exempting districts of the State, portions of counties, sometimes a city, sometimes a township, from proportional burden of State taxes, either in the form of a direct exemption, in the form of an exemption as a commutation, or in the form of collecting the tax, and then under some pretext paying it back to the county or locality from which it was collected. Now, sir, I have never seen a sensible man, not immediately interested-in this species of legislation, that would not admit that it was wrong in theory and injurious in practice. It was the intention of the revenue committee, not so much to intefere with what had been done in respect to this matter, as to effectually checkm Lte it for the future. It will be within the recollection of gentlemen of the bar who are in this Convention, that whenever one of these laws, with regard to the commutation of taxes under any pretext, or with regard to the collection of the tax and paying it back under some pretext, has been before our supreme court the supreme court, whilst upholding the pow b ar of commutation in the Legislature, at the same time has emphatically condemned the exercise of it, and pronounced i time and again, from the bench, that it was dangerous legislation. I have before me here, sir, in the 30th of sills., what the court said in one of the leading cases on this subject-the case of t s w insauker vs. W~right, from the county of Alexander. That was a case in which the city of Cairo had got itself exempted from its due proportion of county taxes to the county of Alexander. The supreme court, after referring to what it had decided in the case of the 1ill. Cent. Ri mai booad vs. the County of M[Lea'n, go on to say: "But it is urged that this provision does not prevent the Legislature from commuting," etc., referring to the provisions of the second section of our existing Constitution, which we had before us yesterday, in regard to the uniformity of taxation-t But it is urged that this provision does not prevent the Legislature from commuting such a tax for an equivalent burden. That in commuting such a tax with a county, city, or other corporate body, or with an individ ual, the General Assembly are to be the sole judges of the sufficiency of the equivalent to be received in lieu of the tax. It is obvious that if they may commute at all, they must be the sole judges of its propriety, and their acts are not subject to the revision of any other power in the State. If this power is possessed, it is liable to many and great abuses. That is the manner in which the su. preme court has characterized the exercise of such power as being a power, if p ossessed by the Legisla tu re at all, "liable to many and great abuses." Now, sir, the supreme court in the forty-sixth of Illinois, in a case that came up in regard to exempting certain swamp lands in St. Clair county from their proportion of State taxes, characterized this species of legislation in the same wavas a species of legislation liable to great abuse and danger. This is a strong argument against the policy of such legislation, but it leaves the power untouched. The power mav be abused, but, judging from the past, it is not like to be in this particular. We again repeat, it is unwise, unsafe and very loose legislation, but are unable to say that it is in violation of the Constitution. We see nothing in the Constitution so plainly and palpably prohibiting this species of legislation as to require us to say it is in violation of that instrument, unsafe, loose and dangerous as it is. Now, sir, when we find the judgment of our supreme court concurring with our common sense with regard to the character of this legislation, does it not, when sitting here, with a view of providing in our fundamental law for restrictions against the exercise of powers which are so liable to be abused, as the supreme court have said in these cases, become one of the first and primary duties for which we have been sent here, to provide against such evils? And have we not had experience enough to demonstrate some necessity for this section? Is it not evident that we are running into almost civil revolution, growing out of the abuse of this power by the Legislature, and may we not safely and properly provide-and ought we not- is it not one of our first duties to provide against that species of legislation, at least for the future? It was with that view that the eighth section and the two following sections were introduced into this revenue report by the Cornmitre on Revenue, and u~nless we mean to leave this power unrestricted, liable to this sort of abuse for the ihture, it will be essentially necessary that somec such provision as this shall be inserted. It is easy to imagine the sort of abuses into which the Legislature may run, if this power remains in the Legislature un. restricted; how easy it is to form combinations by which certain portions of the State may rob the balance of the State, under the pretext of the exercise of such powers as are claimed under these laws. It is only necessary to combine enough of interest here at all times, to place the remainder of the State under ruinous exactions, u~nder the sort of reasoning that mnay be adopted for the purpose of sustaining such laws, coupled with a combination of intersts. Without going further into the reasons which induced the Committee on Revenue to make these provisions, I think that unless gentlemen think, from the language here employed, they conflict with what has beenetdone, they ought unanimously to unite Wit~ us ment of such laws as this section refers to shall be passed. It is neither more nor less, then, than a limitation sought to be introduced into the new Constitution, for the purpose of correcting, in the future, t hose abuses that in many portions of th e S tate have grown up under our present Constitution, and under adjudications that have been made with reference to the power of municipal corporations. Now, sir, so far as the constitutionality of the laws heretofore passed is concerned, by which a portion of the taxes of some of our counties and cities have been proposed to be remitted to those counties and cities, for the purpose of local and internal improvements in their border, we suppose such laws will yet come before the highest judicial tribunal of the State, for determination-and how the question will be determined there, of course we cannot now foresee. W~e who are opposed to such legislation, howeverlegislation which some are disposed to call "grab legislation," "stealing legislation," "raids on the treasury," and other ugly names —and, in my opinion, not without cause (for it is a system so manifestly wrong and unjust, that it seems to me that there should be some restriction in this Constitution upon it), are compelled to leave it to the judicial tribunals. So far as the past is concerned, this provision before us does not attempt to repeal the laws that have been passed. Now, I call the attention of the gentle. man from Fulton [Mr. Ross] to the fact that a considerable majority of this Convention would be willing to repeal the laws that have been heretofore passed upon this subject. He certainly cannot complain, therefore, if with such a disposition these laws are left to the supreme court to determine. I have no doubt that a majority of the Convention are against it, and would wipe the whole system out, and that submitting such a proposition to the people, they would find abundant support for the movement. Mr. ROSS. Mr. Chairman: I desire to ask the gentleman if he does not think that the tenth section would repeal that law? Mr. CHURCH. Mr. Chairman: The tenth section not being under consideration at this time, my remarks are not now directed to that. When the tenth section shall be before us, if I choose to make any remarks, which I do not now intend, I will reply to the genltlemanl's question. I, for one, am willing to support section ten also, in all its vigor. It is sufficient for me to say that the section now sought to be stricken out, has no such effect. It relates simply to limitations, in future preventing such things as people will be wicked enough to sometimes call "grabs" and "steals." The language of the section is as follows:. SEC. 8. The General Assembly shall have no power to release or discharge any county, city, township, town or district whatever, or the inhabitants thereof, or the property therein, from their proportionate share of taxes to be levied for State purposes, nor shall commutation for such taxres be authorized in any form whatsoever. If it had not been for such laws as I have mentioned, would there have been an objection to this section? I cannot conceive that there could have been any objection, unless it came from some member from somewhere down in the "sAmerican bottom, where they have been~qn APRIL 15, 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1279 1280 ()~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ONSTITUTIO~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~AL ()ONYENTJO~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ FRIDAY,~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Mr. CARY. I move the committee rise, report progress, and ask leave to sit again. Mr. HAINES, of Cook. I move to amend by saying that the article be reported to the Convention for its consderation. Mr. CARY. I accept the amendment. It makes no difference, as far as I understand it. The motion as amended was agreed to. place of trust, profit or emolument in this State, who is not an elector of this State. SEC. 8. The General Assembly shall pass laws excluding from the right of suffrage persons convicted of infamous crimes. SEC. 9. The general elections shall be held on the Tuesday next after the first Monday of November, annually. [Also, the minority report,presented by Mr. Haines, of Lak e, as fo llows:] We, a minorit y of the Commit te e o n the Right of Suffrage, to w hich committee was r ecommitted article si x o f the Con stitution, concerning elections and the right of suffrage, not ag reeing with the majority of said committee in their conc lusions in r egard to submitt ing the question of extending th e r ight of suffrage to all persons of mature age, who are citizens of the United States, beg leave on their own behalf to make the followi ng re - port: On the subject of extending the right of suffrage to all persons of proper age, who are citizens of the United States, we recommend that the proposition may be voted upon in the following manner: Ballots shall be prepared with the words written or printed thereon "For Woman Suffrage," or "Against Woman Suffrage." If, upon a canvass of the votes, it shall be found that a majority thereof shall be in the affirmative, then the word "male" shall be striken out of said article, wherever it occurs. If a majority shall be in the negative, then said result shall have no effect in the premises. [Also, the minority report as presented by Mr. McDowell, as follows:] ARTICLE -. OF ELECTIONS AND RIGHT OF SUFFRAGE. SECTION 1. Every white male inhabitant who was a voter in this State on the first day of April, A. D. 1848, and every white male citizen of the United States, above the age of twenty-one years, who shall have been a resident of this State one year next preceding any election, shall be entitled to vote at such election; but such citizen or inhabitant shall. vote only in the election district where he resides, and shall have resided sixty days next preceding such election. SEC. 2. All votes shall be given by ballot. SEC. 3. Electors shall, in all cases except treason, felony or breach of the peace, be privileged from arrest during their attendance at elections, and in going to and returning from the same. SEC. 4. No elector shall be obliged to do military duty on the days of election, except in time of war or public danger. SEC. 5. No elector shall be deemed to have lost his residence in this State by reason of his absence on the business of the United States or of this State, nor by reason of his absence in the military or naval service of the United States. SEC. 6. No soldier, seaman or marine, in the army or navy of the United States, shall be deemed a resident of this State in consequence of being stationed at any military or naval place within the State. S~c. 7. No person shall be elected or appointed to any civil office, public position, or place of trust, profit or emnolument in this State, who is not an elector of this State. SEC. 8. The General Assembly shall have full power to pass laws excluding from the right of suffrage persons convicted of infamous crimes. SEC. 9. The general elections shall be held on the Tuesday next after the first Monday of November, annually. The undersigned recommend that the following proposition be submitted to the people to be voted upon, separately, from the Constitution: Shall the word "white," where it appears before the terms "male citizen," in the Constitution~ be stricken out? The CIIAIRMAN. The question is upon the adoptioni of the first section of the majority report. The (Clerk read section one, as follows: SECTION 1. Every person who was an elector in this State on1 the first day of April, A. D. 1848, and every male citizen of the United States above the age of g~wenty-one years, RIGHT OF SUFFRAGE. Mr. DEMENT. Mr. President: I believe the Convention adopted a resolution to the effect that after this article just disposed of had been considered in Committee of the Whole, they would then take up the report of the Committee on the Right of Suffrage, and consider it in Committee of the Whole. I move that the Convention now go into Committee of the Whole and take that article under consideration. The motion was agreed to. REVENUE-AGAIN Mr. CHURCH. Before the Committee of the Whole is formed, I would move that two hundred copies of the report of the Revenue Committee, as amended by the Committee of the Whole, be printed for the use of the Convention. Mr. ROSS. Mr. President: I would inquire if it is proper to print before action by the Convention. Mr. CHURCH. It is to be printed for the use of the Convention. The motion to print was agreed to. in preventing this system of legislation in the futu re. [Here t he h amm er fell.] Mr. WASHBURN. Mr. Chairman: I offer the following amendment to the section: But this section shall not repeal or affect the validity of any law heretofore passed by the General Assembly of this State. Mr. CARY. Mr. Chairman: I hope that amendment will not be adopted. It is entirely unnecessary. The section does not pretend to repeal any law. To adopt such an amendment as that, looks as though somebody thought it did, when there is not the least thing that looks like it. The question being upon the motion of Mr. Ross to strike out section eight, a division was ordered. The committee divided, when, there being seventeen in the affirmative and thirty-two in the negative, the motion was not agreed to. The CHAIRMAN. The question is upon the amendment of the gentleman from Williamson [Mr. Washburn]. The Clerk read the amendment offered by Mr. Washburn, as follows: But this section shall not repeal or affect the validity of any law heretofore passed by the General Assembly of this State. A division was ordered. The committee divided, when, there being twenty-one in the affirmative and twenty-four in the negative, the amendment was not agreed to. The CHAIRMAN. The question is upon the adoption of the section. Section eight was agreed to. The Clerk read section nine, as follows: SEC. 9. All taxes levied for State purposes shall be paid into the State treasury. Section nine was agreed to. The Clerk read section ten, as follows: SEc. 10. All appropriations of the State revenue shall be from the revenue fund, in general, contained in the State treasury; and no appropriation of the tax collected or to be collected from any locality or district, or any designated property or source of revenue, shall ever be made. IMr. ENGLISH. Mr. Chairman: I move to strike out that section. A division was ordered. The committee divided, when, there being twenty-four in the affirmative and twenty-two in the negative, the motion wvas agreed to. So section ten was stricken out. Mr. NEECEv Mr. Chairman: I desire to offer the following additional section. The Clerk read the additional section offered by Mr. Neece, as follows: SEC. —. No county, city, town or municipal authority shall ever assess taxes, the aggregate of which shall exceed two cents per one hundred dollars valuation, except for the payment of indebtedness existing at the adoption of this Constitution, unless authorizdd by a vote of the people of the cotunty, city, town or municipality.{ Mr. HAY. I would suggest to the mover of that section whether it would not be more appropriate as au amlendment, or to incorporate it with the report of the Committee on Municipal Corporations, when that comes before the Convention. Mr. NEECE. At the suggestion of the gentleman from Sangamen [Mr. Htay], I withdraw the substitute, and will offer it when the report of the Committee on Municipal Corporations shall be considered.. The PRESIDENT. If no objection i s heard, the Convention will now be declared resolved into Committee of the Whole to consider the reports of the Committee upon the Right of Suffrage. So the Covention, as in Committee of the Whole (Mr. Archer in the chair), proceeded to consider the report of the Committee upon the Right of Suffrage. The CHAIRMAN. The business bcfore the Committee of the Whole is the consideration of the majority report and two minority reports of the Committee on the Ri ght of Suffrage. The Clerk read the majority report, as follows: ARTICLE -. OF ELECTIONS AND RIGHT OF SUFFRAGE. SECTION 1. Every person who was an elector in this State on the first day of April, A. D. 1848, and every male citizen of the United States above the age of twenty-one years, who shall have resided in the State one year, and in the election district sixty days next preceding any election, shall be entitled to vote at such election. SEC. 2. All votes shall be given by ballot. SEC. 3. Electors shall, in all cases except treason, felony or breach of the peace, be privileged from arrest during their attendance at elections, and in going to and returning from the same. SEC. 4. No elector shall be obliged to do military duty on the days of election, except in time of war or public danger. SEC. 5. No elector shall be deemed to have lost his residence in this State, by reason of his absence on the business of the United States or of this State, nor by reason of his absence in the military or naval service of the United States. SEC. 6. No soldier, seaman or marine in the army or navy of the United States, shall be deemed a resident of this State in consequence of being stationed at any military or naval place in the State. SEC. 7. No person shall be elected or appointed to any civil office, public position or CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION FP.ID.&Y, 1280 RIGT-IT OF SUFFRAGE-AGAIN. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. e vote at any election unless he shall have ree sided in the State one year, and in the elec tion district sixty days next preceding such electiona." f The CHAIRMAN. The question i s f upon the motion of the gentleman from n Peoria [Mr. Wells] to reconsider the vote e by which the first section was adopted. The motion was not agreed to. . Mr. CHURCH. Mr. Chairman: I move that the committee now rise, report the d article on suffrage to the Convention, and ask its immediate concurrence in the ac.tion of the Committee of the Whole. M Mr. HAINES, of Cook. Mr. Chairman: eI move to amend the motion by asking ethat it be referred to the Convention for its consideration. The amendment was not agreed to. The CHAIRMAN. The question is on the motion of the gentleman from MceHenry [Mr. Church] to rise, report the i article to the Convention, and ask its im'mediate concurrence in the action of the t Committee of the Whole. The motion was agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The report of the Committee of the Whole will be received and lie upon the table. RAILROAD CORPORATIONS. , Mr. BUXTON. Mr. President: I move f that the Convention now resolve itself r into Committee of the W5hole for the pur pose of considering the report of the Committee upon Railroad Corporations. 'R,IGHT OF SUFFRAGE-AGAIN. E Mr. CHURCH. Mr. President: I deL sire to call the attention of the Conven tion to the report just made, and suggest the propriety of finishing that subject up at this time. I do not desire to press the . matter if there are serious objections to it. It occurred to me that it would be a mat] ter of economy to pass this article now. I will move that the report of the Com. mittee of the Whole, on suffrage, be taken from the table. The motion was agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The Committee of the Whole, reporting no amendments to the Convention, the question is upon the adoption of the article. The question is upon the first section. Mr. VANDEVENTER. Mr. President: I move to strike out the word "male," in the second line of the first section. .Mr. HANNA. Mr. President: I move toi( amend the motion by inserting "fe, male."' I do not want both sexes toyvote. i hope the-gentleman from Brown [Mr. Vandeventer] will accept the amendment. If the females are to vote at all, I want them to do all the voting, and let the males retire Jfrom voting altogether. The PRESIDENT. T-he motion ~ not seconded, and, therefore, not entertained. The question is upon the motion of the gentleman from Brown [Mr. Vandeventer]. The yeas andl nays were ordered andl being taken, resulted=-Byeas, 1L2; nays, 4(I -as follows: who shall have resided in the State one yea and in the election district sixty days nex preceding any election, shall be entitled t vote at such election. T he question being upon the adoptio of secti on one, a division was ordered. The committee divided, when, thern being thirty-two in the affirmative an eighteen in the negative, section one wa agreed to. The CHAIRMAN. The question i upon the adoption of section two of th, majority report. The Clerk read section two, as follows SEc.. 2. All votes shall be given by ballot Section two was agreed to. The CHAIRMAN. The question i upon section three of the majority report The Clerk read section three, as fol lows: SEC. 3. Electors shall, in all cases excep treason, felony, or breach of the peace, be privileged tom arrest duri ng their attend ante at elections, and in going to and return ing from the same. Section three was agreed to. The CHAIRMAN. The question i~ upon section four. The Clerk will read the section. The Clerk read section four, as follows. SEC. 4. No elector shall be obliged to da military duty on the days of election, except in time of war or public danger. Section four was agreed to. The CHAIRMAN. The question is next upon section five. The Clerk read section five, as follows SEC. 5. No elector shall be deemed to have lost his residence in this State by reason of his absence on the business of the United States or of this State, nor by reason - of his absence in the military or naval service of the United States. Section five was agreed to. The CHAIRMAN. The question is next upon section six. The Clerk sead section six, as follows: SEC. 6. No soldier, seaman or marine, in the army or navy of the United States, shall be deemed a resident of this State in consequence of being stationed at any military or naval place in this State. Section six was agreed to. l'he CHAIRMAN. The question is next on section seven. The Clerk read section seven, as follows: SEC. 7. No person shall be elected or appointed to any civil offlce, public position or place of trust, profit or emolument in this State, who is not an elector of this State. Section seven was agreed to. The CHAIRMAN. The question is next own section eight. The Clerk read section eight, as follows. SEC. S. The General Assembly shall pass lass excluding from the right of suffrage persons convicted of infamous crimes. Setion eight was agreed to. The CHAIRMAN. The question is next on section nine. The Clerk read section nine, as follows: {SEC. 9. The general elections shall be held on the Tuesday next after the first Monday of November, annually. Section nine was agreed to. Mr. WELLER Mr. Chairman: As I voted i~a the affirmative on the first sechiou, I mnove to reconsider the vote; by which that section was adopted. I do so to move tos strike out the first clause. By this clause, every elector in 1848, whether he has resided in the State since, or not, is made an elector now) thuls making au unfair distinction in such a In ~~~~~~~~.~ r, case; others being required to reside on t year in the State, and six months in th election district, etc. Mr. BUXTON. Mr. Chairman: Ther on is no doubt that a proper consideration c the section will show that the terms o re residence apply to the class mentioned i; d the first clause as well as to those in th s second. The clauses are connected b the word "and." If we consider the oi Rflee o f the copulative conjunction use ehere, I think gentlemen will be satisfie that such is the true construction. The object of the first clause is this S. The Constitution of 1848 provided tha all persons who had resided in the Statr s one year, should be voters without be t. ing naturalized. Such persons have been - voters in this State for over twenty years and it was thought unwise by the com t mittee to disfranchise them at this time e and, therefore, all persons who were made t- voters under the Constitution of 1848 are retained in this section. Mr. WELLS. Does striking that oto disfranchise anybody? -Does not the second clause of the amendment include them as well as others? Mr. BUXTON. It does not; because they are not citizens of the United States. Many persons who have been exercising this francise under the Constitution of 1848, have never been naturalized. They t are not citizens of the United States, but have been citizens and voters of this State ever since the adoption of the Con~ stitution of 1848. f Mr. SEDGWICK. Mr. Chairman: i 1 rise to a point of order. I understand s that in the Committee of the Whole it is not in order to move a reconsideration. The only way to reach this is to rise. Mr. CODY. Mr. Chairman: I think the amendment can be made in a differ ent manner from that suggested by the : gentleman from Peoria [Mr. Wells]. Mr. SEDGWICK. Mr. Chairman: I L insi st upon having my point of order decided. The CHAIRMAN. The Chair is under the impression that the point of order is not well taken. The Chair so decides, but without great confidence in the cor r ectness of its decision, and partly with a view to an appeal. Mr. SEDGWICK. Mr. Chairman: I dislike to appeal, but I am very confident that I am correct, and I will take an appeal. Mr. BROMWELL. Mr. Chairman: The reason a reconsideration is held not to be in order in Committee of the Whole, is because there is no mode in Committee of the Whole to close debate, and if reconsideration were allowed, debate could go on forever. But recently we have adopted a rule to close debate in Committee of the Whole, and there is no reason why we should not reconsider. I think the Chair is correct. The question being: Shall the decis ion of the Chair stand as the decision of the Committee of the Whole?" the decision of the Chair was sustained. Mr. CODY. Mr. Chairman: I was about to say that the amendment the gentleman from Peoria [Mr. Wells] desires would be better made, I think, by striking out the last words of this section: -- "shall be entitled to vote at such election,"A and inserting at the end of the third line after the word "Wear," in place of the word mo"ho," "but no person shall be entitled to APRIL 15, 1870. . 1281 YEA$. Bayne, Bromwell, Buxton, English, Fuller, Gamble, .McCoy. Parker' T'ineber,- I Vandevent,er, Wagner, WhitiDg-12. NA.T& Abbott, F Rice, Allen of Alex,' x.d e 1 1, Ross, Anderson, Goodhue, Se-h,olfield,_Archer, ]Elaine& of CookSedgwick,, BeD'amin, Hanna, Sharp, p 1q82 CO~~~~~~STITUTIO~~~~~~~AL C()~~~~~YEXTJO~~~~~~ FRIDAY,~~- Mr. ENGLISH. Mr. President: I move to amend the amendment by inserting ninety days. My object is to prevent the facility wh ich a shorte r time allows for fraud. Thirty days, it seems to me, is too short, and ninety days is short enough. A shorter time would give opportunity for transporting voters from one place to another, who ar e not r esidents. I would like to have it broad enough to prevent fraud. That, I think, sho uld b e the objBect which the Convention ought to have in view. Mr. 3NcCOY. Mr. President — The PRESIDENT. The question is upon thi amendment to the amendment ju st off ered by the gentlemani from Greene [Mr. English], substituting ninety days. Mr. McCOY. Mr. President: I hope that the first amendment, the thirty days' time, will be adopted. I am a little surprised at the disposition shown to place limitations upon the ballot. It may be due to a lack of judgment and understanding on my part, but I have certainly been surprised at the disposition manifested here this morning; for instance, in the vote upon the suffrage article, refusing to strike out the word "male;" andgnow I see, upon this point, a similar disposition. It may be attributed to a defect of judgment on my part, but I am truly surprised. If the proposition for ninety days should be adopted, it would amount to another restriction upon suffrage. Rights of citizenship, sir, are rlot confined to territory. Nor is the right of suffrage exclusive to the free-holder; but the honest tenants of the country have just as much title to its privileges as the proprietors, and if they should be com. pelled to move out and change places, they would feel that they ought not to be clipped of their right for that reason. I live adjacent to the gentleman from Lee [Mr. Dement]. I concede that he has wealth, a large estate, which he seems to feel should be protected. I do not pretend to complain at the gentleman's course, but there are rights which are broader than those of property, and I am in favor of the largest liberty of suffrage. I should have been glad if the word "male" had been stricken out, and I hope now that the proposition at this point, to reduce the condition of sixty days to thirty, will be adopted. It is now the law of the EState, and I have read no com plaint C>{mihg'from the people ill the shape of conmplaint~s of fraud,; nor have I heard any; ~voice from the countr y claiming that the time should be extended to ninety. I hope thirty will be adopted. Mr. CODY. Mr. President: I hope that sixty days will b~e retained. In June, 1867, I savw a county seat election carried by importing the class of men here desired to be protected, from Chicago to the county where I live, and keeping them there thirty days. Had they been required to be kept sixty days, it might have taken more mnoney than the parties interested could have raised, and the fraud might not have succeeded. That election occurred at the time of the great strike at Chicago, wi th the history of which most of the gentlemen here are familiar, and the men then thrown out of employment were floateel into my coun Sherrill, Sutherland, Tubbs, Wait, Wall, Washburn, Wells, Wendling, Wilson, Wright —46. YEAS. Fuller, Peirce, Gamble, Poage, Goodell, Rice, Goodhue, Ross, Haines of Cook,Sedgwick, Harwood, Sherrill, Hay, Sutherland, McCoy, Tincher, Medill, Tubbs, Merriam, Wagner, Mo(or.e, Wait, Parker. Wells, Periey, Whiting-39. ABSENT, OR NOT VOTING. Allen, of Craw,EmmersQu, Robinson, Anthony, Haines of LakeSnyder, Atkins, Hankins,' Skinner, Billings, Hart, Springer Brown, Hayes, Truesdaie, Browning, Hildriip, Turner, Bryan, McIowell, Underwood, Coolbaugh, Parlks,' Wheaton, Cummings,?ilsbury, Mr. Presi-ent-27. ABSENT, OR NOT VOTING. Allen of Crwfd,Emmerson, Robinson, Anthony, Haines of L'ke,Snyder, Atkins, Hankins, Skinner, Billings, Hart, Springer Brown, IHayes, Truesdal.e, Browning, Hildrup, Turner, Bryan, McDowell, Underwood, Coolbaugh, Parks, Wheaton, Cummings, Pillsbury, Mr. President-27. So the motion of Mr. Cary to lay on the table the substitute offered by Mr. Washburn, was agreed to. Mr. FOX. Mr. President: I move to v strike out the word "twenty one," in the first section, and insert in lieu thereof, the word'' eighteen." I do not propose to discuss the question. Mr. aEDILL. Mr. President: I move to strikr out the word "' sixty," and insert " thirty," in the fifth line. Sixty days seems tobea very long period to re(quire persons to live in an election precinct before they can vote. If we exact sixty days, it will disfranchise a large number of voters. We want to prevent elections from being corrupted by colonization; but thirty days will be amply sufficient for that purpose. Sixty days is double the time now required by law, and no good reason exists for changing it. I hope the amendment will prevail. Mr. DEMENT. Mr. Chairman: That subject was not adopted by the committee without a great deal of careful consideration. It is not an accidental provision in that article. While there might be a little inconvenience of the description referred to-by the gentleman from Cook [Mr. Medill], yet it is well understood by the members of this' Convention that those persons who are m6ving about so frequently are but casual residents and cannot have that deep interest in the affairs of localities that permanent residents have who enjoy the right to vote upon all matters, in their localities. It was the object, too, of this committee to prevent.' this: moving population from being thrown into districts, counties, or townships, to carry special elections. Sixty days'is'short enough, for people moving into a place, to vote and influence questions of locdal interest.' Now our State is becoming and is now a great railroad State. There are a great number of operatives in the service of these various railroads, who might be transferred to a particular locality, in some particular interest, and the permaneat residents would have their interests voted down by those casual and temporary residents imported for that purpose. I hope the amendment will not prevail. So the amendment offered by Mr. Van. deventer, was not agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon section one. The Secretary read section one, as folloxvs: SECTION 1. Every person who was an elector in this Stat n th te barlt day of April, A. D. 1848, and every maie citizen of the United Sta tes above the age dftwenty-one years, who shall hav e resided in the State one year, and in the election district sixt'y days next preceding any election, s ha ll beu entoiled to vote at such election. Mr. WASHBURN. Mr. President: IF now move that article six of our piesent' Constitution, be substituted in lieu of the report of the Comuittee of the Whole. The Secretary read article six of the present Constitution, as follows: SECTION 1. In all elections every white male citizen above the age of twenty-one y ears, having resided in the State one year next preceding any election, shall be entitled towote at such election; and every white male inhabitant of the age aforesaid, who may be a resident of the State at the time of .the adoption -of this Constitution, shall'have, the right of voting as gforesiaid i', btt no s'iCh citizen or inhabitant shall be entitled'to vote, except in the district- or county in which he shall actually reside at the time of such election. SEc. 2. All votes shall be given by ballot. SEC. 3. Electors —shall, in all cases, except treason, felony,, or breach of the peace, be -privileged from arrest during their attendance at elections, and ingoing to and returning .from the same. iSEC. 4.;No elector shall be obliged to do militia duty on the days of election, except in time of'war or publicdanger: SEC. 5. Noe. lector shall-be deemed to have lost his residence in this State by reason of his absence on the business of the United States, or of this State.' /'. i.'.,.'~ SEC. 6. No soldier, seaman or marine, in the army or navy of theLUnitedi States, shall be deemed a resident of this State incenseqience of being stationed at any military:or naval place within the same. SEC. 7. No person shall be elected or appointed to any office in this State, civil'or military, who is not a citizen of the United States, and who shall not have resided in this State one year next before the election or appointment. SEC. 8. The General Assembly shall have full power to pass laws excluding from the bright of suffrage persons convicted of infa lous crimes. SEC. 9. The general elections shall be held on the Tuesday next after the first Monday of November, biennially, until otherwise provi..de4d. by low. [ ~,Ir. CARY. Mr. President: I move to lay the amendment on the table. ~ The PRESIDENT. The question is on the motion to lay the substitute on thle table. The yeas and nays were ordered, and being taken} resulted yeas 397 nays 19 — as follows: I r e Ie t 0 e 1282. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION FRIDAY) Bowman, Cameron, Cary, Church, Cody, Craig, Cross, Dement, Eldredge, Ellis, Forman, Harwood, Ha,y, King, Medill, Merriam, Moore, Neece, Perley, Peirce, Poage, Bayne, Benjamin, Bromwell, Buxton, Cameron, Cary, Church, Cody, Crai_g, (3ro6, . ))epi ot iEldredge, iEn' lisff, ! 9 NAY$. Abbott, Fox, Allen of klox.,Ilaiina And6rson,' KiDg, Archer, Neece, ]3owman, Scholfield, Ellis, Sharp, Forman, Vandev.enter, Wall,I gfiburn, 4dl'in Wilsc,n k, Wright-19. APRIL 15, 1870. DEBATIS AXD PROCEEDJGS. 1283 year, without ever being naturalized at all. The government of the United States has adopted a rule of naturalization which, I think, is a wise one, and should be adhered to by us. I do not think it is policy to have persons indiscriminately naturalized by residence in the State one year without any other qualification or require ment whatever. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon striking out, and inserting the substitute. The yeas and nays were ordered, and beinig taken resulted-yeas 12, nays 46as follows: change within some sub-division of that county, the y could not exercise their pr ivilege in a particular precinct or dis trict or ward. Now, I think we may safely frame the s ection so as to secure both these classes of men. With that v ie w I sugge st this ame ndment, viz: that the section shall read as follows: SEC. 1. Every person who was an elector in this State on the first day of April' A.D. 1848, and every male citizen of the United States above the age of twenty-one years, who shall have resided in the State one year, in the county sixty days and in the election district thirty days next preceding any elec tion, shall be entitled to vote at such elece tion. That will provide that where tenants change their residence in one ward with in thirty days, they may vote in the ward to which they remove. If a tenant re move from a farm in one election district to another in the county, and he has been a resident for sixty days in the county, that affords sufficient evidence that he is a bona fide resident of the county. A mere change from one precinct or ward to another ought not to shut him off from the exercise of this right. Thirty days will be long enough, so that a mere change from one ward to another would not prevent the exercise of the right. I think it would obviate many hard ships which would result from the section if adhered to in its present form. It is an amendment, merely. The Secretary read section one, as pro posed to be amended by Mr. Hay, as fol lows: SEc. 1. Every person who was an elector in this State on the first day of April A.D. 1848, and every male citizen of the United States above the age of twenty-one years, who shall have residedin the State one year, in the county sixty days and in the election district thirty days next preceding any election, shall be entitled to vote at such election. Mr. BUXTON. Mr. President: The object of this change to sixty from thirty days, as is now provided in our present Constitution, was for the purpose of cutting off this business, which is carried on extensively, of colonizing precincts and counties. It is a great business for politicianis to spend money for the purpose of importing voters from one county into another, and one precinct into another, for the purpose of securing an election. While it might be true that a residence of sixty days in a precinct would, in some cases, cut off an honest and intelligent voter, it would, at the same time, prevent hundreds upon hundreds of illegal votes being cast —not illegal, according to the letter of the law, but illegal in spirit —being those of a class of voters which it was never designed should control the politics of this country. Another reason for requiring a residence of sixty days, is that a person muay have a residence long enough to become known to the citizens of the place. Most of the illegal voting at elections arises from the fact of men having their votes sworn in by their companions in crime, if I might use so strong a term in regard to illegal voting. If it was required that a person should be a resident of a county one year, it would suit me much better. We have followed the Constitution, as it now exists, in regard to one year's residence in the State. I take it that a per! son who has only had thirty day's residence there, doss not become very largely interested in the local polities of a cto]~nty ty t o vot e for th e removal of our county seat from Napervill e to Wheaton, the majority for removal being much less tha n the n umber of men thus imported. I hope the sixty days w ill be retained. Th e tendency will be to preve nt fradu lent voting. Mr. BUXTON. Mr. President: I call f or a division of the question, so as to take t he que stion first on striking out. Mr. WASHBURN. Mr. President: There seems to be some diversity of opin ion on this subject. All the members I suppos e are anxious to protect the right of suffrage and to provide against fraud. I think that could be effected by requir in g a longer period of residence than six ty days i the coun ty, and a shorter resi idence than thirty days in the precinct. Perhaps it would be better for this Con vention to look into that question. To prevent voters being transported from county to county, perhaps sixty days is too short a time, and it may be that ninety days should be required. To pre vent transferring voters from precinct to precinct, as there is seldom necessity for preventing it, a shorter residence might be sufficient. I do not see why that more than ten days should be required in the precinct, if ninety days residence is required in the county. I do not know how this would affect large cities, perhaps unfavorably, but in the rural districts it would be very favorable. Mr. DEHviENT. Mr. President: I move to lay all the amendments upon the table. The motion was agreed to. Mr. WELLS. Mr. President: There are a large number of inhabitants in this State who have been naturalized in the county courts-probably many thousand. -The recent decision of the supreme court of California upon naturalization in a court similarly constituted, was that it was not a court of record, that naturalization in such a court was void, and does not entitle the holder of such naturalization papers to vote. It has been held in this State, perhaps not by the supreme court in any published decision, that naturalization papers granted by the county courts of the State are invalid. There are thousands of citizens of the Sta~te who would be entitled to vote under these naturalization papers which they honestly and regularly, as they supposed, obtained, who are disfranchised. NIow, the first clause of this section says: "Every person who was an elector in this State on the first day of April, 1848." It includes persons who Twere made citizens by the Constitution of 1848, but it does not affect those citizens foreign-born, who have become naturalized here between 1848 and 1869. I have, with the desire of remedying that defect, prepared a substitute, which I offer for the consideration of the Convention. The Secretary read the substitute offered by Mr. Wells, as follows. Every male person above the age of twentyone years, who has resided in this State one year, and in the election district thirty days next preceding any election, Shall be entitled to vote at such election. Mr. BUXT7OB. lIr. President- The effect of the adoption of that substitute would be to have every person who Eomes to this State vote, after a residence of one Abbott, Fuller, Peirce, Allen of Alex.,Gamble, Poage, Ande rson, Goodell, Scholfield, Bayne, Goodhue, Sharp, Benjaminn, H ai ne s of CookSherrill, Bromw ell a, Hanna, Su therland, Buxton, Hart, Tincher, Cameron, Harwood, Tubbs, Cary, Hay, Vandeventer, Church, McCoy, Wagner, Cody, Medicl, Wait Craig, Merriam, Wall, Cross, Moore, Washburn, Dement, Parker, Whiting, Eldredge, Perley, Wilson46. Ellis, ABSENT, OR NOT VOTING. Allen of Crfd., Emmerson, Sedgwick, Anthony, Haines of LakeSnyder, Atkins, Hankins, Skinner, Billings, Hayes, Springer, Brown, Hildrup, Truesdale, Browning, McDowell, Turner, Bryan, Parks, Underwood, Coolbaugh, Pillsbury, Wheaton, Cummings, Robinson, Mr. President-27. So the motion to strike out was not agreed to. Mr. HAY. Mr. President: I wish to offer an amendment, which, upon refiec tion, I think ought to be made to this section. I appreciate the soundness of the views suggested by the gentleman from Lee [Mr. Dement], the necessity of providing against transient interlopers in elections, by requiring such a residence as would shut off that kind of voting. At the same time I think such a rule ought to be prescribed as will not unnecessarily interfere with the right to the exercise of this privilege by bona fide residents who are attempting to exercise the right under such circumstances as preclude all idea of fraud in their attempt to vote. Now, in our towns and cities, as we are all aware, there is frequent changing of bona fide residents who are tenants, from one ward to another. In the country tenants frequently remove from one township to another or an adjoining township, probably where, from the circumstances, there is ample and abundant opportunity for the judge of the election to know or ascertain whether or not they are bona fide residents of the county, and have been residents the requisite time to entitle them to the exercise of the privilege, where, if a long residence is required in the particular election district (notwithstanding they may have had a sufficient residence in the county to establish the fact that they were bona fide residents of the county),. yet by reason of a mere AP-UIL 15, 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1283 YEAS. ,Ircher, Bowman, English, Forman Fox, Kin, ""%, Rice, Ross, well" Wli,4 t, Wendling-12. NAYS. 1284 COSTITUTIOAL ()OXYETIOX FRIDAY, Mr. HAY. Mr. President If I have the power to accept that amendment, I would be glad to do so. I like it better. Mr. DEMENT. Mr. President: I am L unable to see how a bona fide residence in the township or ward can be made more bona fide by residing only thirty days than residing sixty days. If that is t true why would he not be a bona fide resident in one day as well as in thirty? - There is no other object to be soughtr nothing else to be obtained by sixty days residence. T And if a bona fide removal can be es tablished by any better evidence, why require even so much time as thirty days previous residence to establish it? Why ) not make the mover eligible one day s after such removal? Why not fix it so that we may vote at once upon establish ing by some other means the fact of his bonafide removal? There are good reasons however, why f this sixty days time was adopted by the committee; it least a portion of the comL mittee were in favor of a medium be tween two extremes. Let me instance a case upon one side, that came under the committee's observa tion. There are counties and townships in the State, voting almost every week on the subject of subscribing to railroads under the laws that are now attracting so much attention. I have known in stances where a vote has been very close . in a township, and in about thirty days the result was entirely changed,-ret versed. There is a certain system at this L time practiced in the townships. I know an instance where there were but two or three votes difference. Being near a town that was to be benefited by the railroad, that precinct or township was L made at last to vote the subscription of several thousand dollars. I know that in one instance where there were only sixty or seventy votes in the township, and where there were only fifty-five or fifty-six thousand dollars of taxable property, fifty thousand dollars were voted to the road under the influ ence of the same town to which this road was to lead, to its great advantage. And since that time as things have settled down there, at a late election of supervi s-Brs and town officers, they obliged every man to pledge himself to resist the issu ing of these bonds-the permanent citizens of the township having taken the thing into their own hands in the only way left to them, by electing officers of the township pledged not to sign any paper in the shape of bonds to the railroad. Now this section is to prevent these objects of deep and vital interest to the substantial inhabitants being carried out. It is not intended to take away the right of suffrage from men who have an interest in the localities where they vote. I do hope the amendment will not be adopted. It is probably a popular idea to e xtend the right of suffrage as far as possible. No person would be more willing to do so, so far as it could be done in safety and in justice to the substantial permanent settlers and property owners of the country, than I would be. ["Question!" "Question!'] Mr. NEECE. Mr. President: I think this amendment should be adopted, and I cannot let it pass without giving it my sanction and support. Take the condition of oar country, of YEAS. Cody, Rice, Dement, Sharp, Ellis, Sutherland, Forman, Tubbs, Harwood, Wendling, King, Whiting-18. NAYS. Goodhue, Ross, Haines,of CookScholfield, Hay, Sedgwick, McCoy, Sherrill, Madill, Tincher, Merriam, Vandeventer, Moore, Wagner, Neece, Wait, Parker, Wall" Perley, Washburn, Peirce, Wilson, Poage, Wright-37. ABSENT, OR NOT VOTING. Allen ofCwfd, Emmerson, Robinson, Anthony, Haines of L'ke,Snyder, Atkins, Hankins, Skinner, Billings, Hanna, Springer, Bromwell, Hart, Truesdale, Brown, Hayes, Turner, Browning, Hildrup, Underwood, Bryan, McDowell, Wells, Coolbaugh, Parks, Wheaton, Cummings, Pillsbury, Mr. President So the motion of Mr. Sharp to lay on the table the amendment offered by Mr. Hay, was not agreed to. Mr. ROSS. Mr. President: I move to strike out sixty and insert ninety. Mr. CARY. Which sixty does the tleman mean? Mr. ROSS. There is but one sixty in the amendment, sixty days in the county and thirty in the precinct. Inser t after the word "year,o' in the third line, the words "in the county ninety days," and strike out the word:Sixty," in the fourth line, and insert "thirty." Mr. HAINES, (of Cook. Mr. President: I would like to have the section read as it will read if amended. The Secretary read section one, as proposed to be amended, as follows: SEC. 1. Every person who was an elector in this State on the first day of April A. D. 1848, and every male -citizen of the United States above the age of twenty-one years, who shall have resided in the State one year, in the county ninety days, and in the election district thirty days next preceding any election, shall be entitled to vote at such eletion. CONSTITTTTIONAL CONVENTION F-UIDAY, 1284 or precinct, and I think the citizens of any precinct have the right of protection against a floating population. It is the legal voters of this country-men who have "a local habitation and a name," and a permanent residence-that it is for the interest of this country should constitute the great bulk of the votrs. The design of requiring a longer residence is that they may become better kiaown-more identified with the interests of the community in which they live, before they shall become voters. The objects to be obtained by votin will be best secured by the interest whic the voter acquires by long residence in the locality in which he lives. A perso of merely thirty day's residence has n such interest as would entitle him to vote acainst those who have lived ther longer, and have become more fully identific,d with its local interests; and, therefore, all la ws and provisions that require a settlement, for a sufficient length o time to become known, at least, to be legal voters, are, in my opinion wise and judicious. Mr. SHARP. I move to lay the amendment on the table. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. (Mr. Bromwell in the chair.) The Secretary will read the amendment of the gentleman from Sangamon [Mr. Hay.] The Secretary read the amendment offered by Mr. Hay, as follows. After the word "year," in the third line, insert the words 4'in the county, sixty days," and strike out the word "sixty, I in the fourth line, and, insert in lieu thereof, the word "thirty.' The PRESIDENT, pro tempore, (Mr. Bromwell in the chair.) The question is on the motion to lay on the table. The yeas and uays were ordered, and being taken resulted —yeas 18, nays 37as follows: those who rent farms. Our town elections come on the second Tuesday in April. Most of the tenants in the country, who are as much entitled to vote as anybody else, have such contracts that their tenancy expires on the first of March. These tenants change from farm to farm, and often to different townships. Now, by this sixty day rule they will all be disfranchised, when it comes to voting for township offices. And why? To protect against fraud, gentlemen tell us. What fraud? But what fraud can be perpetrated where ninety days residence is required in the county? Gentlemen refer us to voting subscriptions to railroads. Io that the only fraud that can be perpetrated by ille'gal Voting? Is this a remedy for that? If Voting taxes for railroads is wrong, wipe out the right to vote such taxes. This is a question as to the right to vote, and not as to w' hether the vote may produce a wrong result. This section, as reported from the committee will disfranchise three hundred voters every year in my own county, who changing farms, cross the township lines, by, in many instances, crossing streets. In some cases township lines run right through cities, as in the case of Macomb, which is built on the corners of four townships. Moving across the street, would, in many instances, deprive a citizen of the right to vote, afid if the original report were adopted,Tit would work hardships; wrongs would be created by it greater than the frauds spoken of. Where I live, election frauds have often been complained of, but I have never heard of a complaint of importing vote,,s from one town to another. What is the inducement? The offices are small, trifling in emoluments and importance, as supervisors, justices of the peace, collector, assessor, road commissioner, pathmaster, etc. These citizens who by circumstances are compelled to change their residence, are entitled to help to elect the township officers. If we adopt this amendment and have a county residence of ninety days, there can be no frauds. If we say there must be thirty days residence in the township, I think it will be sufficient. The inducement in township elections, is not great enough to lead to fraud in im ortid voter Bayne, Benjamin, Bowman, Cary, Ch-dr'ch, Craig,' Cross, EldreaZe, EnR:Iis Fo:i,' Fuller, Gamble, Goodell, , i I p APRIL 15, 1870. DEBATES AD PROCEEDINGS. 1285 ernment. It is doubtful whether they might not again, after availing themselves of all these privileges, say they had never renounced their allegiance to the government from which they emigrated. These are some of the considerations that induced the committee to refrain from enfranchising this class of our fellow citizens, if they may be so called. I respect them as much as I think any person should do, but let them naturalize, is my doctrine. I am not in this Convention to demagogue for the popular'fa vor of men who live and enjoy the privileges of this country and will not fight for it when it is in trouble. Mr. WASHBURN. Mr. President: I think this objection of The gentleman from Lee [Mr. Dement], as to the prospect of a war, is one hinging upon an extremely remote probability. I do not think the government proposes to go into a war soon, and if it should unfortunately, I apprehend there will be no necessity to draft these foreigners at all; for I apprehend they will all enlist, go and fight for the country voluntarily, without being drafted, just as they did in the late civil war. Mr. WENDLING. Mr. President: I shall support the amendment, although I will not support the section even with that amendment. It is not such as I desire. The votes that have been given here this morning, on this side of the hall, since this question has been so unexpectedly forced upon us, have been given-I speak only for myself-with a desire to get this subject into a shape as unobjectionable as possible. I would like to see this question of suffrage submitted to the people in a shape altogether different from that proposed by this article, but inasmuch as my views will not be met, I desire to make the best of it and secure at least this proposition in regard to foreigners. I think that motives of justice and right should impel us to give these foreigners the right of suffrage after one year's residence in this State. Therefore, I shall, upon that ground, support that amendment. I can see no good reason for refusing them this rightthe same right that the fifteenth amendment, which has been recently proclaimed, confers upon citizens who are certainly no better qualified to vote than they are. If we examine the question of qualification, in regard to intelligence, no gentleman basing himself upon that ground can refuse to allow them the right to vote. Examine the question from any standpoint one chooses, and regulate one's actions bv just and proper motives, and onet cannot comne to any other conclusion. Those gentlemen who are so earnest for negro suffrage cannot refuse to a foreigner, who has been here one year, the right to vote. The gentleman from Leo [Mr. Dement] referred to the fact that some foreigners chose to evade the draft. The reply to that must be obvious to every one, and suggests strong reasons why foreigners should be allowed to vote. If the fact that some fbreigners evaded the draft, furnishes any reason why they should be refused the right to vote, certainly that vast number, the thousands and tens of thousands of foreigners in this country, who came up from their various avoca The amendment offered by Mr. Hay was agreed to. Mr. CODY. Mr. President: I move to strike out the first line and the second line to.1" 1848 " inclusive, and insert these words: Every male inhabitant of this State, at the time of the adoption of this Constitution, above the age of twenty one years. Mr. President: We have by our action in Committee of the Whole, and we shall probably by our action in Convention, extend the right of suffrage to all the coloredmen now in the State, or who shall hereafter live here. It seems to me, sir, it is certainly due to the foreign population who shall be in the State at the time of the adoption of this Constitution that we shall not discriminate against them and in favor of the negroes in regard to the right of suffrage. I do not wish to occupy time in discussing the question. The proposition is its own sufficient recommendation, and we ought to adopt it unanimously. Mr. WELLS. Mr. President: I had prepared an amendment similar to that which has been offered by the gentleman from DuPage [Mr. Cody]. I shall, therefore, support his heartily. I desire to add to what he said just this fact. There are thousands of foreignborn citizens of this State who have procured their naturalization papers in county courts-who honestly, and as they be. lieved, regularly procured their naturalization papers, and havelvoted for years. A recent decision has cut them off, and compels them to make their declaration of intentions and wait two years before they can vote. Unless some such provision as this that has been offered is adopted, the effect of the section will be to disfranchise all those foreign-born citizens who have obtained their naturalization through the county court. I earnestly hope the gentlemen, before they vote upon the section, will consider that fact, and give to these foreign-born citizens, who are not to blame, who took their naturalization papers from courts that they supposed had the proper jurisdiction (the courts alone being to blame in this matter), the right to vote. I hope that this amendment will be adopted, so that these men will not be deprived of these privileges after they have been exercising them without question, for many years. Mgr. DEMENT. Mr. President: It is due to the committee who made this report to say that all these considerations were before theml, and in deciding as they did, I understand them to have so decided from this fact more than any other that was developed during the war —that these foreign-born citizens that had not naturalized undecr the laws olf the countr y camre in when there was danger of a draft and plead the protection of their sovereign, their allegiance to whomn they had never renounced. While the naturalized citizens and our native citizens were puttinlg down the rebellion they were baskin~gat homle, protected by their allegiance to the sovereign of a foreign government. If we enfranchise them, and should be so unfortunate as to engage in another war, it is doubtful whether we could draft these enfranchised foreigners into our ranks to fight fbr this government, that was so kind and liberal to them Ms to give them the right of suffrage and the right to elect the officers of our go~ 322 APRIL 15, 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1285 tions, and enlisted in behalf of what they thought wasa war for the Constitution and the Union, should plead in louder tones for the enfranchisement of the foreign element, than this evasion of the draft on the part of a few foreigners, should speak against it. There were Irishmen, Germans, and foreigners of every clime, in the late contest; and, sir, if the evasion of the draft which put soldiers into the field for that war, furnishes any argument against the enfranchisement of this foreign element, certainly the vast and overwhelming majority, who came forward and so many times more than counterbalanced those few, should answer the argument forcibly and fully. Take the gentlemen here who represent the county of,Cook upon this floor. Some of them led to the field as brave and gallant a set of soldiers as ever charged upon the enemy-brigades and regiments, in which were thousands of men who claimed a foreign nativity. That fully answers the argument. It is a question that affords ground for a speech for effect and display. I do not choose to indulge in anything of that kind, but dispassionately remind gentlemen of the fact that if they must remember the evasions of the draft, they must not forget the patriotic services of the foreign element. To my mind there is no force in the objection that there were a few foreigners who availed themselves of the fact of their foreign birth to escape service in the army. No good reason can be afforded for refusing them the right to vote. They are tax-payers. Nine-tenths of them came here with the intention of becoming citizens of the United States under the naturalization laws. Having proved their devotion to our institutions, having proved their capacity to become good and valuable and useful - citizens, having in all things shown that capacity, I can conceive of no good reason why we should refuse them the right- to vote after one year's residence in our State. Mr. HAY. gMr. Chairman: It seems to me that the objection to the proposed amendment is of a very fundamental character, and that it ought to preclude the adoption of it. Now, the objection to foreigners voting does not arise out of any question of their supposed unfitness, by reason of want of intelligence, or unfitness to exercise the right properly. That has never been the reason for requiring naturalization as a prerequisite to the exercise of the franchise of voting. It grows out of the political condition of the foreigner simply. Until a foreigner has become a citizen of the country wre cannot exact of him the obligations and duties of citizenship. That is clear, that is manifest;. As long as a foreigner keeps himself in a state of political allegiance to a tbreign potentate and that is his political condition until he disavows it by becoming a citizen of thecountry-we are in no condition to exact of him the obligations and duties of a citizen of this country. We cannot call upon him to enforce the laws of our country. We cannot call upon him to defend the country in time of war, nor can we call upon him to enforce the laws in time of peace. Mr. CAMERON. I desire here to correct an error into which the gentleman from Lee:[Mgr. Dement] fell, and into which the' gentleman from Sangamona 1286 COSTITUTIOAL COYETiO FRIDAY of the Legislature that foreign-born citi- I zens, who had taken out their naturaliza- fa tion papers in the county courts, were not naturalized, and not entitled to vote. ss Upon that issue I was denied a seat in d the Legislature, and probably fifty thou- co sand citizens of the State of Illinois were d disfranchised by that decision. t Many of these men had taken out their is naturalization papers, had fought under f our flag, and come home to the State of o Illinois to learn they were not citizens of n the United States, because they had taken t out their papers in a county court instead of a circuit court. t There was some division of sentiment t upon the question in the Legislature in C the political party with which I happened l to be identified, but upon the other side c there was a solid vote that these men were not citizens, and were therefore not entitl ed to vote. I believe there were no dissent- l ing votes upon the other side of the house. I am glad, however, to see the members upon the other side of this hall coming over to the right principle. ( Mr. CAMERON. Mr. President: I desire to occupy the attention of the Convention for a very few minutes upon this subject. The question in my opin- ion is a very grave and important one, and should not be acted upon without re- e fiection. I am opposed to the adoption of the amendment proposed, upon two grounds. First, it asserts what I regard to be a c pernicious principle, viz: that the fran- chise should be extended to the subjects of foreign governments; and secondly, I feel satisfied that there is nothing we can engraft upon the Constitution that will j make it more odious to a very large class of the citizens of this State-the foreign born citizens-who have become natural- ized under our laws, than to place on an equality with themselves those who re- fuse to transfer their allegiance from European governments to the government of the United States. It is a false principle to assert that men who are aliens in feeling, who have sought our land only for gain, for pur poses of speculation, and no higher ob ject, who are hostile to republican gov- Ternments, who boast of their foreign al legiance, men who are monarchists in principle, should be armed with the bal lot perhaps to injure the institutions of a T country they do not respect, and which c they profess to despise. L Now, sir, it is a fact, that in our large - cities we have a large population of this o L kind, men who are British subjects, who have no hesitation in saying that theyt 1 never will become citizens of the United w States. I am i'ot in favor of begging such persons to accept the ballot as a compliment. Naturalization may be eas- ily attained in this country, and I am op[ posed to giving the right of voting to a any one until he has identified himself h ewith our institutions. t It seems to me that this amendment is not, cannot be (although I will not call in t question the good faith of any gentle- man)-offered in good faith. I fbar there L is a disposition to work at cross purposes. 3d It appears to have been introduced to 3 load down the article and defeat it-not - by direct assault, for that has been avoid ed but by indirect means. - The great mass of our foreign-born e citizens are opposed, I believe, to confer- | i - ring such privileges upon these aliens, anal f CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION F2IDAY 1286 have not heard one single argument in avor of the proposition. The gentleman from Peoria [Mr. Wells] ays the supreme court of California has !ecided so and so. What has the supreme ourt of California to do with us? He toes not claim that the supreme court of his State has so decided. -No gentleman s prepared to show that the right of ranchise has ever been denied to any ne by our supreme court, on account of aturalization, in any of the courts of his State. Another says it will work hardship to the soldiers. I am a little surprised at this, in view of the special act passed by Congress declaring that all foreigners who have served in the army may, on account of such service, become naturalized citizens of the United States. All those who desire to become naturalized may become so, but if they are not disposed to unite with us, why should we force the ballot into their hands? I hope the amendment will be voted down. I know that if it is adopted it will influence many votes against the Constitution. The colored people who are admitted as voters are, after all, Americans, born upon the soil. It is no argument in favor of aliens voting to assert that negroes are now allowed to vote. We cannot prevent this, but the other class I have alluded to, we can control, and I desire to see all who will not become citizens excluded from the privileges of citizenship. Mr. RICE. Mr. President Mr. SHARP. Mr. President: Will the gentleman yield for a motion to adj ourn? ["No!" "No!"] Mr. RICE. Mr. President: I propose to occupy but a few moments. I desire, sir, to submit a very few remarks upon this question, although I did not intend to do so until the amendment now pending was introduced. The scope of the discussion has surprised me, and I did not expect to hear so much opposition as has been manifested. Involved in the same section is a provision which involves a change in our State Constitution, so as to conform it to the Constitution of the United States, as lately amended by what is known as the fifteenth amendment. I know that there has been a diversity of views on that branch of the question, and that I am identified with and belong to a party that have opposed the enfranclhisement of the colored people of this country, and more especially an act which resulted in the amendment of the Constitution of the United States, transferring the con1trol of the question of suffrage, as to that class and all races to the federal government, instead of leaving it to the States. I chall, for one, vote to conform the Constitution of the State to the Constitution of the Untited States, as amended, as declared by official authori~yJ both federal and State, and as acquiesced in,s as I believe, by the great body of the Amlerican people, without reference to the means by which that result has been obtained. I have no desire to dig up dead issues, open the grave of the buried past, or to struggle to insert unmeaning words in the Constitution of the State. But I am surprised that any gentleman who has been able to go sofar as to extend suffrage to the colored rgen, should now [Mr. Hay] is falling. It is this —that by giving the right to vote, we do not at the same time, impose the responsibility of service in the army. That is not the case. The government of the United States, in the late war, decided that any alien who has exercised the franchise, was liable to be drafted; and this class was compelled to serve. I approved the decision of the government. Mr. HAY. I am not conversant with all the decisions made by the war department, and I do not know to what extent these decisions might stand the test of judicial investigation. I understand the general principle to be, however, that until a foreigner has thrown off his allegiance, the duty and obligation of citizenship cannot be exacted of him. We know, sir, in this State, that thousands, under the protection of international law, availed themselves of it, and were excused from the draft-thousands of them. Do we propose, by an amendment of the character proposed, to cast upon men who availed themselves of this privilege without ever having attempted to put themselves in a condition to become citizens since, t he rights of citizens of this country, when they have already appealed to the protection afforded them by reason of their allegiance to foreign potentates? As a matter of course, if we cannot exact from them the obligations of citizens, we ought not to clothe them with the highest privileges of citizens. We may hold them answerable to the criminal code of our country, we may give them the protection of the laws and tights of property, but we cannot call upon them to enforce the civil laws or become a member of a posse comitatus. They may appeal at any time to their rights as foreigners, to exemption from all these duties. Do we desire to put a large class of the people of this country in that condition, and leave them in that condition, with no inducement held out to them to throw off this protection and this allegiance due to foreign potentates, and become citizens, in order that they may avail themselves of the rights of citizens of this country? There is no other inducement for men in this condition to become citizens than that they may avail themselves of the franchise. The emergency might arise in this country when it may be very comfortable to be in the condition where persons in this condition can escape this responsi bility as citizens, and keep themselves in that condition. Mr. FOX. I will ask the gentleman why he is in favor of the rule as to those in the State before the first of April, 1848? Mr. HAY. Because they were enfran chised under the old Constitution, and I am- not in for disfranchising anybody heretofore enjoying that right, but I am not for extending the right where there is no reason for extending it. Mr. MERRIAM. Mr. President: It may be that the objections of the gentle man from Sangamon [Mr. Hay] are well taken, but by some decisions which have been made in our State, there is a large portion of our fellow-citizens disfran chised. There was a decision by the last Legis lature, ion which I happened to have some interest. It was decided~by ag majority DEBATES AND PROOEEDINGS. an M., and was called to order by the Presi dent, pro tempore, (Mr. Bromwell.) nd RIGHT OF SUFFRAGE. she The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The es first section of the report is still under ses consideration. The question is upon the ofse amendment of the gentleman from Du se Page [Mr. Cody.] , The Secretary read section one, as hio amended by Mr. Hay, as follows: We SECTIoN 1. Every person who was an elec tor in this State on the first day of April, A. to D. 1848, and every male citizen of the United States above the age of twenty-one years,who ly shall have resided in this State one year, in be the county ninety days, and in the election f district thirty days next preceding any eleca tion, shall be entitledto vote at such elecc tion. re The Secretary read the amendment ofnfered by Mr. Cody, as follows: e Strike out all down to, and including the Y. figures "1848," and insert the following: te "Every male inhabitant oof thi s State, at the t. time of the adoption of t his Constit ution of above the age of twenty-one years." e Also, sectio n one, as it would r ead with Ld the amendment offered by Mtr. Cody, a s i- fol lows: n SECTION 1. Every male in h abitant of this g Stat e, a t the time of the adopt ion of this Constitution, above the age of twenty-one pyears, wh o shall have resided in the State one year, in the county ninety days, and i n 0o the e lection district thi rty days next precedf ing any election, shall beenti t led to vote at st such election. Be Mr. GOODHUE. Mr. President: I ee have not stopped for on singe sin gle moment e to consider the ef fe ct whi ch my opposition to this amerdment migh t have upon sme I person ally, o r might have upon t he part y a to wh ich I belong. I am opposed to th is e amendment because I believe it is wrong It because I believe it is in violati on of - an establi shed princip le which h as been ws recognized in every State in this Union, Is and has been acted up on in the State of ) Ill i nois, ever since its organization, with l- a single exception. I am opposed to it e because, in its e ssential elements and 3- principles, it strikes a fatal blow at the f whole natural ization system of our State d and of this nation- if the nation shou l d tse e fit to carry out the pr inciples th at n might be adopted by this Convention. e These States have constantly acted upon Ithe theory of its being unwise to confer -citizenship upon every man who may tiecome upon our soil, the vern first i s b omenct ,. he sets m fot upon our shores, without any I knowledge of our institutions, w i thout e any appreciationl of the n~ecessities of citi zenship, without any sort of appreciation I of the so~lemnl duties and responsibilities e cast upon hint as a citizen of this State, and without any willingness on his part -to accept and pledge himself to the faith ful discharge of those duties as a citizen of this commonwealth. I say I am opposed to thsis amendment, because it strikes a fatal blow} if we carry it to its legitimate results, at the natural izationl system of this nation. Mr. WASHBUJRN. Mr. President: I wish to ask the gentleman a question. Mr. GOODHUE. I would gladly an swer questions if my time were not lim;ited, but I cannot now do so. And why does the principle of this amendment go as far as I assert? Because it says to a certain class of men, who muay be in the State at the time of the adop tionu of this Constitution —fo~reigners, men who have never indicated their in* elinations or their wishes to become cieL Mr. CAMERON. Will the gentlem answer a question for me? M. r. RICE. Yes, sir, if I have time al can. Mr. CAMERON. I would ask tl gentleman on what ground he advocat the forcing of the franchise upon tho who are here for the simple purpose . making money, and not for the purpo - of becoming citizens of the country; wh are here without renouncing their alleg anece to foreign governments, an d who d clare that they will continue subject foreign powers? Mr. RICE. Mr. President: My rep] to the gentleman is that a rul e should fo rmed in respect to the r ights and inte ests of a class, and not in r eference to o caseional exceptions to tha t clas s. I f the a a re indiv iduals here who d o n ot m ea to become citizens, b ut hav e come hex simply for the purpos e of m aking mone l as the gentleman insists, and if there al some who are n ot fr iendly to this gover ment, that is no reason why milli ons a othe rs who have colme here and who lo our institutions and our country, shoul be debarred of the privileges of partic pating in its government, any more tha it would be a reason for disfranchisin the people of a State, because there wer a few rebels in it during the late war. Another reason is that there are s many obstacles now placed in the way c naturalization of foreigners that it almos amounts tc a denial of the rights of thos who seek it. Many county courts hav been naturalizing foreigners under th belief in a right to do so. It was determined by the last session, believe, of the General Assembly, in c:ntested election case, based upon th opinion of the Attorney General, tha county courts had no jurisdiction to natu ralize, and that the naturalization paper which they had issued were void, thu disfranchising a large class who have sup posed hitherto, that they had been natu ralized, and were properly exercising th rights of citizenship. And now it is pro posed to transfer the whole question o naturalization to the federal courts, an when that is done it will amount almos to a denial of the rights of naturalization to all persons'but those who happen to b~ conveniently situated; at least it wil make naturalization expensive and bur densome. I tldlnk it is a prima eacie case that when a foreigner moves to this counl try and settles among us, he comnes as E friend and not as an enemy to th( country. Mr. GOODHIUE. Mr. President: ] yielded to the gentleman for a reasonable time, to answer a question. M~r. RIC:E. I will yield to the gentle. man from Will [Mr. Goodhue], if he wishes to go on. ADJOURNI~Ei'T. Mr. ANDERSON. Will the gentlemarl yield for a motion to adjourn Mr. GOODHIUE. I will do so. Mr. ANDERSON. I move the Convention do now adjourn, until two o'clock this afternoon. The motion was agreed to. So the Convention (at twelve o'clock and nine minutes) adjourned. - be inclined to take a step backward in respect to the people of any nationality that choose to make America their home There has been a great change in the publ ic mind on this subject of suffrage sinc e the Constitu tion of 1848 wa s adopt ed. It was then confin ed to white male citizens. It is now to be confi ned to mahl citizens, without regard to color or race. There i s als o quit e a movement to em bra c e f ema les in the body-politic, as a p art of t he voting element of t he cou n try, and several gentlemen this morning cast th e i r votes in favorof the movement. I was not among that number. When we have been able to go as far as we have, and acquiesce in what we have, in respect the colored race in this country, I am in clined to become very liberal, and am al m ost willing to g iv e the right of suffrage to the pe ople of every race, kindred and tongue under heaven. But t here is nothing new in this. It is takin g a step backward to o ppose this amendment. The Constitution of 1848 enfranchised, by express terms, every for eign resident in the State at the time of the adoption of that Constitution. If the world is moving and growing more lib eral in respect to the extension of suffrage, I see no reason why we should now pause and refuse to do that in respect to the right of suffrage to inhabitants of the United States of America, who have emigrated here, because they preferred our country and its institutions to their own, and who mean to identify them selves with us. 1 see no reason why we should take a step backward in respect to the foreign emigrants who have come here, the vast number of Germans and Irish, and other nationalities, who are peopling our shores, and constituting a part of our most industrious and thrifty population. In the late war, they furnished in pro portion to their numbers an equal, if not a greater quota of soldiers, than any other race, even the Americans themselves, rendering service in the defense of the flag. Because a few shirked duty on account of allegiance to the country from which they emigrated, is no reason why we should ostracise a numerous class of worthy men. It is not only true of them, but it is true of American citizens in individual instances. in the hour of trouble they proved recreant to duty. But it is no reason for proscribing a race? or a whole people, because individuals have been found who have acted unworthily. I have not turned my attention to the question, as to whether they would be bound to do military duty. The gentleman from Cook [fir. Cameron] said the government in the late war held that those who voted were to do military duty, and were drafted accordingly. That is a question of international law, to be settled between our government and the government from which they shall emigrate, as to what duties shall be devolved upo~n them in respect to the governlment, if they choose to exercise the franchise. I leave that question there. It is not a question to be settled in this Convention. I am of this opinion, Mr. President; I am for enfranchising every foreigner who has chosen this country for his homne, and is a resident of the State at the time of the adoption of this Constitution. I do not care from what country he comnes or to what nationality he belongs. a:~ APRIL 15) 1870. 1287 AFTER-NOO-Y SESSION. FRIDAY, April 15,1870. The Convention met at two o'clock P L28 COSI TOA ).ETO RDY concerned, but are refusing to go one step further, and say that there shall be no difference between men in the State in all time to come. I say again, I cannot see any reason whatever, why a few should be singled out and exempted from the operation of our naturalization laws, unless we are ready to strike down the whole naturalization system of the nation so far as cur influence is concerned. Is there a man who desires to do that? Is there a single gentleman upon this floor who is advocating this amendment, who is ready to go to this extent, and say there -shall be no difference made between aliens and foreigners and natural born citizensthose who by their schooling are placed in a position where they can exercise the right of the elective franchise understandingly, who are intelligent, and have the best interests of the State at heart. I ask if there is any man here who is in favor of making no distinction between aliens and foreigners, whose breasts, perhaps, are still heaving with love for the old country, and who, perhaps, if a war should again break out here, would probably claim protection there, for the purpose of screening them from military service in this country [Here the hammer fell.] Mr. BUXTON. Mr. President: I seems to me this question has not been touched upon in the light in which it should have been, particularly by some of the advocates of the proposed amendment. In order to determine the justice of the promsed amendment, a reference to the history of the Constitution of tbis State on this subject, will be necessary. At the time of the adoption of the Constitution of 1818, all the inhabitants of the State joined together for the purpose of organizing the State government. Then, as now, it was the privilege of all persons resident in a territory to join such organization. In the Constitution of 1818, section twenty-seven of article four provides: In all elections, all white male inhabitants above the age of twenty-one years, having resided in the State six months next preceding the election, shall enjoy the right of an elector; but no person shall be entitled to vote except in the county or district in which he shall actually reside at the time of the elec tion. There was the enfranchisement of every inhabitant of the State, and as time rolled on every inhabitant of the State, who had been here six montbs, became a voter, without regard to his being a citizen of the United States. When the Constitution of 1848 was adopted it was found that this policy which enfranchised all inhabitants of the State, without regard to their being citizens, was pernicious. And, therefore, the Convention of 1847, which framed our present Constitution, determined not to disfranchise those who were or had - been voters since 1818, who had acquired the right of suffrage without being citizens of the United States, but would not extend it further. And the Committee on Suffrage have still continued this right to those who were residents of the State prior to 1848. The Constitution of 1848 did not extend the right of suffrage to any inhabitant of this State who was not a voter be fore the adoption of that Constitution. And it is now proposed to undo what the zens of the State, who have never prepared themselves for the duties of citizenship, who have never sw orn or taken upon themselves any obligation to perform the duties and obligations of citi zens of this State —may immediately jump up, upon reaching our shores, go to the nearest ballot-box, and cast their votes without any sort of understanding or appreciation of the duties and responsibilities attaching to the sacred title of a citizen of this State, or of this great nation. There are no prerequisites under the amendment. They are to have no knowl edge, no residence, no sort of appreciation of their duties. They are to subm't themselves to no sort of schooling, by means of which they may acquire sufficient knowledge to vote intelligently for the men and measures to which their attention may be called. Nothing is required of them but the simple, solitary condition that they may live upon our soil at the time our Constitution is adopted. Mr. President: If I was in favor of this amendment, I shou'd be in favor of going further. I should be in favor of striking a blow at our naturalization law. I should be in favor of saying that every man over the age of twenty-one, no matter whether he has been naturalized or not, no matter whether he has sworn to conduct himself faithfully and honestly, as a citizen of this State or not, should be allowed to vote. I should be in favor of engrafting a clause in the Constitution of the State to the effect that there should be no naturalization law upon our statute books from this time forward in the history of this State. And, why I should be in favor of that is because it is in consonance with the very amendment proposed. If it is wise to ignore a distinction at one time, it is right to ignore a distinction for all time to come. If it is right to, at one particular time, make an exception, as broad, almost, as the general rule, it is right, I say, to establish. a rule which sets aside and annuls the necessity of the exception. If it is right to say to any one class of men who happen to be in this State at the time of the adoption of the Constitu tion, that nothing whatever shall be re quired of them, then, I say, it is right for us here, in this Constitutional Conven tionl,'to frame and engraft upon the Con stitution of this State a clause or a provi sion to the effect that th~ere shall be no naturalization laws in this State, and that every man, who happens to be twenty. one years of age, shall be entitled to thre exercise of the right of elective franchise. And why not? Is there any good reason for making a distinction 9 Gentlemen who have discussed this question have discussed it on the ground that we ought not to make distinctions between classes. I ask these gentlemen if they are not making distinctions be tween classes, if they are not seeking oult -those who may happen to be in this State at the time of the formation of this Con stitution, and extending to them privi leges, without exacting from them any obligations whatever, without exacting from them any knowledge or any school ing whatever in the theory of our gov ernment, in the necessities of the hour, or the obligations of citizenship. They are dispensing with all these things, so far as the pwticular class Constitution of 1848 has wisely done, in saying that no one shall be a voter in the State of Illinois who is not a citizen of the United States. It is proposed to give to foreign-born men, of the age of twenty-one years, all the privileges of citi zens of the Unit ed States, withoat imposing any of the corresponding liabilities or duties upon them. It is proposed to take awav from all the foreigners who come to the State of Illinois all inducement to become citizens of the United States, by granting them every privilege of the citizen without imposing any of its duties upon them. It has been said that our military authorities decided that those who had exercised the right of franchise without being naturalized, were subject to the draft. It may be true, but at the time that policy was adopted it was a time of war of great magnitude and importance. But does any one here claim that even if they had exercised those rights without any obligation of citizenship, they would not have been released if they had been claimed by their own governments? Had they forfeited any of the rights of their allegiance? Had not their governments still a right to grant them protection papers? While there are thousands upon thou sands of intelligent and patriotic citizens of the United States in this country nat uralized under the laws of congress, there are other thousands who not only are not but declare they will not become citizens of the United States, nor cease to recog nize their allegiance to the countries from whence they came. It would be unjust to the citizens of the United States-unjust to those who have renounced their old allegiance to become citizens with us, to give to those who have not assumed the duties and lia bilities of citizenship any of its privile ges. Then, I say, the Constitution of 1848 did not extend the right of franchise to all the inhabitants of the State at that time, but simply left them voters as they found them under the Constitution of 1818, and declared that from that time no one could acquire the right of an elector of the State of Illinois, unless he was a citizen of the United States. This amendmenbt proposes to take away the prohibition fixed in the Constitution of 1848, and again extend the pernicious privilege granted under the Conastitultion of 1818. I can see no good reason for doing so un less we wish a large population in this State to receive the benefits and privi leges of citizens without having imposed on them any of its duties and liabilities. Mr.:DEMENT. Mr. President: I hope that we mlay be able to reconcile the objections to this section — Mr. RICE. Mgr. President: I rise to a point of order. I have no objection to the gentleman speaking, but I understand that under our rule no one is entiled to speak more than once on the same subject. Mr. DEMENT. Mr. President: I have not, that I am aware of, spoken before on this amendment; but I have not risen to muake a speech. I will say, to relieve the gentleman's anxiety — Thre PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The Chair is under the impression that the gentlemen from Lee [Mr. Dement] has spoken on this amendment. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION FRiDA-y7 1288 DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. Mr. DEMENT. Mr. President: I union, I take it, sir, that we ought not work well at present, within a period of union, I take it, sir, that we ought not even to have recognized the provision contained in the Constitution of 1848. Mr. President, upon that point, when in the Committee of the Whole, I voted against the article, and I voted against it for that reason. I know it looked hard to vote against men who had been exercis ing the right of suffrage for the last twenty-two years, but when I have a sov ereign duty to perform, where I have to take upon myself the oath to support the Constitution of the United States, I con sider that my first duty is to that Consti tution, and I therefore voted against that proposition. And I must say now, so far as the propostion is concerned, unless we go for universal suffrage, unless we pro pose to let all parties in here, male and female, that I must go against any propo sition whatever that asserts the idea that a foreigner shall have a place in prefer ence to the female citizens of the State of Illinois. pMr. President, I do not know that it is in order to offer an amendment to this section at this time, but if it is, I have one prepared which I wish presented, and on that I wish to make a few remarks. The PRESIDENT pro temnpore. The amendment can be read for information. There is already an amendment to an amendment pending. The Secretary read the proposed amendment, as follows: For the purpose of extending the right of suffrage to all citizens of the United States of mature age, the proposition may be vot zd for in the following manner: Ballots shall be prepared with the words, written or printed thereon "For Woman Suffrage." "Against Woman Suffrage." If, upon a canvass of the votes, it shall be found that a majority thereof shall be in the affirmative, then this section shall become a part of this Constitution, and the word "male," in the suffrage article, shall not be a part of the Constitution. If a majority shall be in the negative, then this section shall be void. Mr. IMcCOY. Mr. President: That question was incidentally spoken upon this morning, and it has occurred to me that there is a great delicacy lying around this question by the members of this body. It seems to be one of the things that stand in this hall like the sensitive plant-it shrinks at the slightest touch of roughness. Now, we are a little too careful it occurs to me, with reference to the rights of females. It is thought if they exercise the right of suffrage they will become demoralized, that for the purpose of keeping their morals clean and pure, they must not exercise the right of suffrage; but, it is claimed, it may be given to all colors, to all characters in this broad land. Why, if there is any source whatever in this republic, or in the civilized world from which true righteousness emanates, from whence moral sentiments spring, it comes from the women of this country. Where de our morals lie? Is it not with the mothers of this land? We can entrust all the moral sentiment that belongs to the youth of this country to their care and custody. They can train our children, the dearest objects of our lives, and yet when it comes to say that they shall have the right of suffrage, they are ignored in this respect. I take it, they have a place in this gover nment, and though this theory may not Mr. DEMENT. Mr. President: I move the following amme dmen t to the amendment of the g ent lema n fr om Du Page [Mr. Cody.] The Secretary read the a mendment of fered by Mr. Dement, to the amendment offered by Mr. Cody, as follows: Insert after "1848" in second line, the following: "Every person who has obtained naturalization before any court in this State." Mr. DEIMENT. Mr. President: It will be seen that this amendment relieves the section of the objection raised by gentle men of cutting off under any circum stances the right of suffrage of those who have obtained naturalization papers, before our county courts, or any court of this State. Mr. McCOY. Mr. President Mr. DEMENT. I will read the section as it will stand, if amended as I propose, for information: Everv male inhabitant of the State at the time of the adoption of this Constitution, above the age of twenty-one years, every person who has obtained a certificate of naturalization before any court in this State, who shall have resided in the State one year, in the county ninety days, and in the election district thirty days next preceding any election, shall be entitled to ~ote at such election. It does not qualify in future any person. Mr. McCOY. Mr. President: Is this to come out of my time? Mr. TINCHER. Would the gentleman from Lee [Mr. Dement] object to the word "hitherto?" Mr. DEMENT. I think it applies only to the past. Mr. McCOY. Mr. President: I have stated on a previous occasion, that I am for the widest liberty with reference to the ballot-box and the right of suffrage; but, while I have made that declaration, I want it to be understood with a certain qualification. I think this is inaugurating a system of conflict between the State and federal governments. Mr. DEMIENT. Will the gentleman allow me a moment? I merely wish to accept the qualification of the gentleman from Vermilion [Mr. Tincher]. I believe it is pertinent and proper. The gentleman can now address his remarks to the amendment as it really exist,. Mr. TINCHER. Mr. President: I simply want to ask if the gentleman did accept my amendment? Mir. DEMENT. Yes, sir. Mr. McCOY. M~r. President: I think we are going a great way toward the point of letting all persons vote in this country. There is a wonderful resolution taking place in the mlinds of all the people of the country with reference to the right of suffrage, and I believe it will not be contended by any gentleman upon this floor that, although the provision has been incorporated in the Constitution of 1848, it was a legitimate and proper proposition) for the reason that we had a Constitution of the United States, and a~s I tunderstand that Constitution, the right of naturalization is given to the federal government. Then, if it belongs to the lbderal government to provide for the naturalization of the citizens of the country, it does not belong to the State government to do it. It either belongs to the oc e or the other;* and unless we assume the position here to-day of disregarding the Constitution of the United States, ignoring this provision, setting up a different right here, and claiming State sovcreignty2 independent of the natio!~l APRIL 15) 1870. 1289 work well at present, within a period of ten years from this time there will be an amendment go out from this hall to the people of this State for the purpose of allowing them to exercise that right of suffrage. They have always had the greatest con sideration. After this world was made and spread out through the immensity of space, after the light was set in the heav ens, the starry region had her place, and man was formed, it is evidently true, notwithstanding, that the finer material had not been passed upon by the Almighty, but He took of this raw, crude material of which we are formed, put it into the crucible and put the plastic hand of the Almighty upon it and out came a woman. [Applause.] And eighteen hunred years ago, when the Saviour of the world was here, while these kind of characters of which we are made, had our Saviour nailed to the cross, it was then that these women, these tender objects of mercy, came forward, and ministered in their mercy to the sufferiing agony of the Saviour of the world; and shall it be said now, that we will not give them the right of citizenship? Yes, they have that, but we do deny them the ballot box, and why? No answer can be given-they have proven themselves qualified for every position in which they have been placed; as Governors-they having reigned in supremacy. Do they. not pay their taxes? Do they not plank the side-walks and the streets? Do they not perform all these as far as their property is concerned.9 Then, while it is true that they do all these things, is it a matter of fact that we willdenytherightofvotingtothem? I have been no particular advocate of the principle as originating it, but I come here as a matter cf justice, and claim they shall have a right, and a hearing within this Constitution, and that every man in this Convention shall place himself on the record for or against it. I therefore propose that this amendment which I have proposed, shall be placed before the peo' ple of the State as an independent article and that their voice be taken on this subj ect. Mr. ROSS. Mr.,President: I have felt some regret at the unkind manner in which naturalized foreigners have been alluded to b distin uished ent,emen on 19O co STITUTIOAL ()OWITiO FRIDAY, foreigners. Men may talk of the slow process to be gone through to obtain the rights of citizenship, but the efforts now being made in Washington by the party in power, will make it still more difficult for foreigners to become naturalized and to exercise the elective franchise. It has been said by a gentleman on the other side, that any laws we may make on this matter should not be in conflict with the Constitution of the United States. The gentleman from Whiteside [Mr. McCoy], I believe, made the remark. I was gratified to see that there were two or three honorable exceptions, of able and distinguished gentlemen, on the other side, who announce the liberal sentiment, that these people who have come and made their homes among us, who have lest their native land and fled from the despotism of monarchs of the old world, should be permitted to exercise the elective franchise. And, Mr. President, there is no good reason, in my judgment, why these men should not be permitted to exercise these rights. They appreciate freedom and liberty, because they have been deprived of it in their own land, and have fled from the persecution and tyranny of those countries. I have sometimes felt that among our native citizens there is a feeling of opposition growing up to the plain, simple, democratic institutions framed by our fathers; that they desire a bank or a bonded aristocracy. But these hard-fisted laboring men and their interests are identified with the laboring masses of this country, and they will stand by the institutions of our country, as they were founded and established by our fathers. I sincerely hope that this amendment may be adopted. Mr. MEDILL. Mr. President: I think this discussion has partaken somewhat of the nature of buncombe and demagoguery. We are here for a grave and serious purpose, and not for that of demagoguery or trifling. The Constitution of 1848 requires that all men shall be citizens who shall vote thereafter in the State of Illinois, except the handful of aliens who acquired the right of voting under the old Constitution of 1818. That Convention was controlled by the democratic party, during its best and purest days. The Convention of 1862, which was overwhelmingly democr itic, reaffirmed the same thing, and made no attempt to violate the rights of the citizen by conferring powers and privileges of citizenship upon aliens involuntarily. No petition, no memorial, of which I have any knowledge, has been presented to this Convention from the first day we met to the present time, by any alien, naturalized citizen, or native born, asking this Convention to bestow the power and privilege of citizenship upon those whose allegiance is due to a foreign power. I believe, therefore, that the attempt to override and violate the existing constitutional provision upon that subject can not be made in good faith, but is offered here with an hostile intent, for the purpose of bringing our work into disrepute and odium, and causing the people to trample it under foot. What is citizenship? It is that privilege that makes me a part of the body politic-one of the makers of the lawsa a portion of the government, to help select CON STITUTIONAL CONVENTION FR.IDAYI 1290 ways invited these men to come among us. Mr. BUXTON. Have we not invited them to become naturalized? Mr. ROSS. I tell the gentleman that at the city of Washington they are being invited to become naturalized, under much more onerous circumstances than have ever been required before. I want no better guarantee of a man's love for the institutions of this country than his tearing himself away from the despotisms of the old world, and making his home among us, We speak of them as if they were spies upon our liberties. I would be glad to see this amendment go further than it does. I believe every individual who resides in this country a period of twelve months, should have the same right to the elective franchise as our own citizens. I know no reason why it should not be so. But gentlemen require these men who have been here ten or fifteen years to go around with passes in their pockets. It is analagous to the practice under the old slave oligarchy of the south. A negro was required, when he traveled from one neighborhood to another, to take his pass in his pocket that he might get through. Take the German, the Irishman and all these foreigners, although they may have lived here ten, fifteen or twenty years, and when they go to the registry or the ballot-box they are required to carry their passes in the way of naturalization papers, and exhibit them before they are allowed to exercise the elective franchise like freemen. Sir, I want no such discrimination. We are all the descendants of foreigners. Those that are mow coming to our shores are just as good as our forefathers were. They have borne their part nobly in maintaining the institutions of our country in every conflict that has come upon us. Gentlemen say that some of them attempted to avoid the responsibility of the government. If they did, still, in proportion to the number of their population in this country, they bore an equal proportion of the burdens which had fallen upon them; and I believe now, by an act of Congress, that every individual who exercises the elective franchise of this country, may be called upon, in case of necessity, to bear arms in defense of the government of the United States. Thlis amendment is not in conflict with the Constitution of the United States. Gentlemen are getting very wise, but I would remind gentlemen that from 1818 to 1848 the Constitution of the State of Illinois provided that every inhabitant over the age of twenty-one had the right to exercise the elective franchise. Now, it is left for the wisdom of my distinguished friend from the county of Whiteside [M~r. McCoy] to say that for twenty years Illinois was in darkness, and did not see light; that she was violating the Constitution of the United States in permitting this thing to be done. The Constitution of the United States provides that men who may elect the most numerous branch of she Legislature of a State, may be competent to elect members of congress, and also elect President of the United States. We have a right, here ill Illinois, to determine who shall exercise the elective franchise. That is all we propose to do. W~e do not propose to interfere in any degree with the laws of Congress for the naturalization of the officers who administer the governmont, and to help control and rule the government; to be a part of the national posse or militia for the preservation of life and property and protection of the country against foreign invasion or domestic enemies. But the allegiance of an alien is to a foreign power. The alien lives among us in welcome. We invite him to come hither and become a citizen, and we hope he will. We cannot compel him to give up his allegiance to a foreign power, but we have furnished him an easy method whereby he may become a citizen, if he chooses. It needs a few years to get acquainted with our laws and language and customs, and with the Constitution and the duties he must perform if he becomes a citizen. We have opened the courts to him to make his application to become a citizen, limiting him to only five years, when he may obtain all the high privileges we enjoy, and incur all the liabilities and responsibilities attach. edthereto, and if he does not choose to do so, he may live here all his life in peace. But this is a proposition to impose up. on him nolensvolens, the privilege of citizenship without its duties and responsibility. That is all wrong, and is not asked for by either aliens or citizens. Since the black man has been enfranchised, it is said every alien in Illinois should be enfranchised without being a citizen. That is a peculiar, a strange, an astonishing reason to give. The colored man is not a citizen by virtue of the Constitution of the State of Illinois, but by virtue of the Constitution of the United States. He is voting in this State in defiance of the Constitution of the State. Hundreds have already voted in this democratic city, unchallenged, and that in the face of the provision in our Stale Constitution, limiting the franchise to white citizens. We have nothing to do with the right of the colored man to vote. He has the same right to the suffrage as the white man, and it is not in the power of this Convention to take it away from him. That question, therefore, is settled and ended, and should be kept out of this discussion. There is no use in dragging it in here. The opposition raised to the section before us by the gentleman from Peoria [Mr. Wells]. and the gentleman from Tazewell [f~ir. Merriam] has been provided for by the amendment of the chairman of this committee [Mr. D~ement], and the adoption of that will cover every valid objection that can possibly be raised to this section. But if we want to ensure the almost universal condemnation of our work, and bring this Convention and its labors into contempt and 'scorn, we can do so, by the adoption of such a provision as is here proposed to confer wholesale the rights and privileges of the franchise on unnaturalizecl aliens, whose allegiance belongs to foreign powers and potentates, and who are exempt from the duties and responsibilities of citizenship. It would be a just cause for the utter overthrow and indignant Mr. ROSS. Mr. President: I ask for the yeas and nays. Mr. CARY. Mr. President: I am inclined to think that the proposition of the gentleman from DeKalb [Mr. Sedgwick] may be a very good one, but I believe it altogether too indefinite in its present shape. I do not exactly understand what it means. Is it in reference to voting money for railroad purposesis that the idea? Mr. SEDGWICK. For any purpose whatever, where a special tax is to be levied upon that person's property. Mr. CARY. Mr. President: I suppose the gentleman is aware that bult a very small proportion of the taxes raised in the State are raised by a direct vote of the people. If it is merely on that, I am in favor of it. Mr. SEDGWICK. It only relates to those cases where special taxes are levied by a direct vote of the people. Mr. VANDEVENTER. Mr. President: I am in favor of the proposition, but I think it is too indefinite in regard to the age of the person exercising the right of suffrage. It says, "every person of sound mind and lawful age." Now a woman is of lawful age when she is eighteen, and a man when he is twentyone. I an opposed to a woman voting at eighteen, without a lman can vote at that age. Mr. SEDGWICK. Mr. President: I would ask the gentleman if a woman is of age by law when she is eighteen, and if she has property left her over which she obtains control at that age, why should she not have the right to vote upon a question of taxting that propcrty? Mr. VANDENENTER. But if she has a right to3 vote at eighteen, then a young man should be allowed to vote at the same age. Mr. SED)GWICK. He has a guardian until he is twenty-one. Mr. ~ANDEVENTER. At any rate I desire they shall stand uponl the same footing, and, as they are not of lawful age, at the same number of years, I move to insert the words "twenty-one years." Mr. ENGLISH. I move the previous question upon the whole section. 325 - APRIL 15f 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1297 sider that this proposition is nothing more nor less than a property qualification. My opinion of the progress of events is that we have opened a Pandora's box that we cannot shut up, and that in fifteen or twenty years it will be demonstrated that "those who sow to the wind will reap the whirlwind." My opinion is, that the tendency of the public sentiment of this day is towards the extension'of suffrage, even towards universal suffrage; and that not many years hence-not to say monthswe will see suffrage conferred on every human being of sound mind who is not a minor. I do not express that as my sentiment or feeling, but as a prediction; because there are but few persons, of whatever party predilections, who can stand up before the community and deny to any class of intelligent citizens the right to vote, even though they may have opposition to it, and although it may be against their better convictions. The progress of events is like an avalanche, and we cannot stop it. Unless we can agree what virtues or conditions shall justly entitle people to the right of suffrage, we cannot stop until we shall have conferred the right of suffrage upon every human being of sound mind and of lawful age. Gentlemen's actions and votes have already decided in favor of it, and they cannot consistently go back on them. There may be men in this country who can go back upon it, but the great mass of the dominant party cannot do so and be consistent. If the true standard is intelligence, or citizenship, or both, or the right of the citizen to have a voice in the assessment of taxes-on either or all of these reasons-they are far more potent in favor of conferring suffrage upon the women of this country than upon the African race. Mr. PEIRCE. Mr. President:' It seems to me that the gentleman from Peoria [Mr. Wells] and some others fall into an error with reference tothe import of this proposed section. They seem to suppose that it applies only to the case of females. If they will consider more fully they will see that it applies to a much larger class, i. e., to a large class of unnaturalized foreigners who are property owners the class for which the gentleman from Peoria [Mr. Wells] has labored so eloquently and earnestly today. I think this will commend the section to his consideration when he comes to notice that it gives them, as well as females who are property owners, the right to vote upon questions involving special taxation upon their property. Mr. WELLS. Will the gentleman allow me to correct a mistake. I was speaking for non-resident property owners; no matter where they live, they should have the right to vote upon the question of taxing their property. Mr. ROSS. Should they vote in every place where they own property? Is that your proposition? Mr. WELLS. Mr. President: I move to strike out the word, "resident" from the proposition. Mr. VANDEVENTER. Mr. President: I move the previous question. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The gentleman from Brown [H~r. Vandeventer] moves the previous question on the amendment and amendment thereto. 1298 COSTITUTIOAL COYETiO FRIDAY, Mr. ANDERSON. Mr. President: I desire to introduce an additional section, and as the subject has been fully discusse d, I mov e the revious questi on: The Secretary read the additional section offer ed by Mr. Anderson, as follows: Every white male foreigner over the age of twenty-one years, who shall have resided in this State one year, in the countyininety days, and in the election district thirty days next preceding any election, shall be entitled to vote at said election. Mr. TINCHER. Mr. President: I move to strike out the word "male." The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The motion is not in order. The motion for th e p revio us question must first be d isposed of. Mr. HAINES, of Cook. Mr. President: Is it in order to move to lay it on the table? The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. Motions are not in order until the Chair ascertains whether the motion for the pre. vious question is sustained. A division was ordered. The Convention divided, when, there being fourteen in the affirmative and seventeen in the negative, the motion for the previous question was not agreed to. Mr. TINCHER. Mr. President: I move to strike out the word "male." Mr. HAINES, of Cook. Mr. President: I move to lay the whole subject on the table. Mr. ANDERSON. I call for the yeas and nays. Mr. TINCHER. Mr. President: Is not my motion before the motion to lay on the table? The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The gentleman from Vermilion [Mr. Tincher] offered an amendment to the section proposed by the gentleman from Jefferson [Mr. Anderson]. The motion of the gentleman from Cook [Mr. Haines] is to lay upon the table the proposed section and all its amendments, and hence takes precedence. The Secretary will read. The Secretary read the additional section offered by Mr. Anderson, as follows: Every white male foreigner over the age of twenty-one years, who shall have resided in the State one year, in the county ninety days and in the election district thirty days next preceding any election, shall be entitled to vote at said election. The yeas and nays were ordered, and being taken, resulted — yeas, 36; nays, 23 — as follows: The gentleman from DeKalb [Mr. Sedgwick] offered an amendment to the article, being an additional section, to which the gentleman from Brown [Mr. Vandeventer] offered an amendm-ent. The gentleman from Sangamon [Mr. Hay] offered an amendment to the amendment which was accepted, and the section as amended is the question in order. Mr. CHURCH. The principle involved in the section The PREIDENT, pro tempore. The previous question i s o rdered. Mr. HANNA. Is the pre vi ous question ordered on th e amendment of th e ge ntlema n from Sangamon [M r. Hay] or on the whol e ques tion? The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. It includes the whole question. Mr. SEDGWICK. I accept the amendment of the gentleman from SangamooP [Mr. Hay.] ["Question," "question."] The Secretary read t he addi tional section offered by Mr. Sedgwick, as amended by Mr. Hay, as follows: SrCTIONc -. Every person of sound mind, and having the qualifications as to age and residence, provided for in section one of this article, who is a resident of on election district in this State, shall be entitled to vote upon any proposition to raise money by taxation for any purpose whatever, when such person has property that will be subjected to taxation if such proposition be adopted. Mr. McCOY. Mr. President: I rise simply to make an inquiry. It occurs to me the section does not provide that parties shall be entitled to vote unless the property lies in the district. Mr. SEDGWICK. That is not so. Mr. McCOY. I do not want a contradiction in that form. I am addressing myself to the Chair. I want to hear it read. The Secretary read the additional section offered by Mr. Sedgwick, as amended by Mr. Hay, as follows: SACTION -. Every person of sound mind, and having the qualifications as to age and residence provided for in section one of this article, who is a resident of an election district in this State, shall be entitled to vote upon any proposition to raise money by taxation for any purpose whatever, when such person has property that will be subjected to taxation if such proposition be adopted. Mr. McCOY. It does not say "in such district." I call for the yeas and nays on that question. The yeas and nays were ordered. The Secretary proceeded to call the roll. Mr. McCOY. Mr. President: I rise for the purpose of offering an amendment, if it is not' too late. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The yeas and nays have been ordered, and the amendment comes too late. Mr. McCOY. Mir. President: I then move to lay the whole subject on the table. The PRESIDENT, pro tempors. The ca1 of the roll has commenced, and cannot be interrupted. The Secretary will proceed with the call of the roll. The result was then announced —yeas, 82; nays, 28 —cas follows: Craig, McCoy, Cross, Medill, Eldredge, Merriam, English, Peirce, NAYS. Allen of Alx'n, Hanna, And er son, Harwood, Benjamin, Hildrup, Bowman, Moore, Cameron, Neece, Dement, Parker, Ellis, Parks, Forman, Perley, Fox, Rice, Fuller, ABSENT, OR NOT VOTING. Allen of Crf'd, Cummings, Snyder, Anthony, Emmerson, Skinner, Atkins, Haines of L'k., Springer, Billings, Hart, Truesdale, Bromwell, Hayes, Turner, Brown, McDowell, Underwood, Browning, Pillsbury, Wheaton, Bryan, Robinson, Mr. President-25. Coolbaugh, So the additional section offered by Mr. Sedgwick, as amended by Mr. Hay, was agreed to. Mr. McCOY. Mr. President: I will renew my motion to introduce an additional section. The Secretary read the additional section, offered by Mr. McCoy, as follows: For the purpose of extending the right of suffrage to all citizens of the United States,of mature age, the proposition may be voted for in the following manner: Ballots shall be prepared with the words written or printed thereon "For Woman Suffrage." "Against Woman Suffrage." If, upon a canvass of the votes, it shall be found that a majority thereof shall be in the affirmative, then this shall become a part of this Constitution, and the word "male" in the suffrage article shall not be a part of this Constitution. If a majority shall be in the negative, then this section shall be void. ["Question," "question."] The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The questionis upon the additional section proposed by the gentleman from Whiteside [Mr. McCoy.] Mr. McCOY. Mr. President: I call for the yeas and nays. The yeas and nays were or dered, and being taken, resulted-yeas 28, nays 32, as follows: Bryan, Benjamin, Buxton, Church, Cody, Craig, English, Fox, Fuller, Gamble, Ross, Sedgwick, Sutherland, Tincher, Tubbs, Vandeventer, Wagner, Washburn, Whiting-28, NAYS. Abbott, Forman, Rice, Allen of Alex.,Goodhue, ~ Scholfield, Anderson, Haines of Cook,Sharp, Archer, Hankins, Sherrill, Bowman, Hanna, Wait, Cameron, Harwood, Wall, Cary, Hay, Wells, Cross, Medill, Wendling, Dement, Moore, Wilson, Eldredge, Necce, Wright-32. Ellis, Perley, A.BSENT, OR W~OT VOTING. Allen of Crfd.,Cummings, Snyder, Anthony, Emmerson, Skinner, Atkins, Haines of Lake,Springer, Billings, Hart, Truesdale, Bromwell, Hayes, Turner, Brown, McDowell, Underwood, Browning, Pillsbury, Wheaton, Bryan, Robinson, Mr.President-25. Coolbaugh, So the additional section offered by Mr. McCoy was not agreed to. p CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTI.ON FRIDAY, 1298 Wa er, gu I wait, Whiting-32. Scholfi6l.d, Sharp, Sherifll, Wall, Washburn, Wells, Wendling, _o Wilson, Wrigh 8. it YE.&S. Goodell, Hildrup, King, - McCoy. Merriam, Parker, Pft ks,I p F eirce, Poage, TB,&S. Goodhue, Perley. Haines of CookPeirce,' Hanna, Poage, Harwood, Sedgwick, Hay, Sheirill, - Hildrup, Sutherl'and, McCoy, Tincher, Medill, Tubbs Merriam, Wagner. Waft, rarl,5er' Wells', Parks,' Whiting-36. Ba-y-ne, Be-njamin, Buxton, Cameron, Cary, Church, Cross, Dement, EldredZe, Fuller,Gamble,, Goodell, N-LYS. Abbott, Forman, Allen of Alex.Fox, &da-erson, Hankins, Archer, King, Bowman, eece, Cody, Rice, Ellis, Ross, English, Scholfield, Sharp, Vandeventer, Wall,, Wasfiburn, Wendliug, .Wilson, Wright-23. YEA.S. Gamble Poage, Goodell: Ross, Goodhue, Sedgwick, Haines of Cook Sutherland, Hankins, Tincher, Hy, Tubbs' - Kiiag, Vandeventer, Abbott, Archer, Bayne, Buxton Cary, Church, Cody, VOTING. Sly d e"rr, S. Allen of Clfd. Craig, Anthony, Cummings, APRIL 15,1870. DEBATES AD PROCEEDINGS. 1299 talked with on the subject. I will read it for information. Mr. WASHBURN. M. President: I rise to a point o of order. The s ubstitute is not in order until the motion to re - consider is dispos ed of. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The gentleman is correct; but the gentleman from DeKalb [Mr. Sedgwick] was speak ing on the question of reconsideration. Mr. SEDGWICK. Mr. President: I am speaking to the question of reconsideration. That w e may a ct intelligentl y on that motion, I will read this substi. tute: SEC. 9. The General Assembly may provide by law, that all persons, without distinction o sex, who are property owners, may vote on all propositions to create any indebted. ness, or to levy a tax on such property. Mr. President: Some members of the Convention have urged against the sec tion as it stands, that it contains too much special legislation, and that the subject had better be left to the Legislature. This leaves it open in such a manner that I think we can all agree upon it; for I believe the principle involved is conceded by nearly every one to be a correct principle, viz.: there should be no taxation without representation; for, as I remarked yesterday, that is a principle as old as this nation. That is a principle which Bunker Hill monument represents to-day; that is the language of that monument-no taxation without representation. It was that principle which once caused Boston harbor to be made a teapot, into which our ancestors emptied certain tea shipped to this country. The language of that act was, "no taxation without representation." It was that principle that led our ancestors to fight the battles of the Revolutionary War for seven long years. It was that principle which supported them when, half naked and barefooted, they left their bloody tracks through Valley Forge. It was that principle for which they suffered and endured cruel suffering, and even death itself-"no taxation without representation." Mr. WASHBURN. Mr. President. I would like to ask the gentleman a question. Does the substitute proposed by the gentleman confer upon women the right of representation? If so, I would ask him if they are not already in the enjoyment of the right of representation? Mr. SEDGWICK. Mr. President: I will say that it proposes to allow every person who is a property-holder, whether male or female, a right to a ballot to protect that property. And I will say further, in answer to the gentleman, that women are not represented now, unless they are so fortunate as to have a husband to vote for them. But that does not reach many of these cases —many cases of widow~s and others, who are not fortunate enough to have a representative. Now, sir, it is well known that in 1861, our Legislature conferred upon the married women of this State the right to hold property in their own name. This is only carrying out that principle. It is saying to these women, "You may have the ballot to protect that property" — nothing further. -It is not making them voters in politi.cal matters at all. Now, sir, it has been objected by some that they do not like to take this step, for fear it will lead to the further step of woman suffrage. But, I apprehend So the motion of Mr. Buxton to lay upon the table the motion of Mr. Cary to reconsider the vote by which the Convention adopted the additional section offered by Mr. Sedgwick, was not agreed to. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The question is now on the motion of the gentleman from Jo Daviess [Mr. Cary] to reconsider. Atkins, Emmerson, Springer, Billings, Haines of LakeTruesdale, Bromwell, Hart, Turner, Brown, Hayes, Underwood Browning, McDowell, Wheat on. Brvan, Pillsbury, Mr. President-26. Coolbaugh, Robinson, S o the motion of Mr. Haines, of Co ok, to lay on t he table the additional section offered by Mr. Anderson, w as agreed -to. Mr. CARY. Mr. President: I wish to make a motion to reconsider the vote whereby the section offered by the gentleman from DeKalb [Mr. Sedgwick] was adopted. I do this -not because I am not in favor of the section, for I thir.k the principle is a proper and correct one. I am ready to vote to put it into the Constitution, but I do think that the section, as adopted, is altogether too indefinite. If we are going to put anything of that kind in the Constitution, we should have it in the most direct and correct language, so that it can be understood; and I, therefore, move to reconsider, in order to place it in a little more definite language. Mr. BUXTON. I move to lay the motion to reconsider upon the table. Mr. CARY. I hope the gentleman will withdraw that until I can make an explanation. Mr. BUXTON. I will withdraw. Mr. CARY. The gentleman from McHenry [Mr. Church] has drawn a substitute. I do not know whether it is definite enough or not. I think it is more so than the one drawn by the gentleman from DeKalb [Mr. Sedgwick]. Mr. CHURCH. The section was drawn hastily. I will read it. At every election, when the only question shall be the creation of adebt, or the levying of a specific tax, every person holding property, to be burdened by said debt or tax, may vote on such question, if he or she shall have been a resident of the election district for thirty days next previous to said election. ADJOURNMIFENT. Mr. HAY. I move that the Convention do now adjourn. The motion was agreed to. So the Convention (at five o'clock and thirty seven minutes) adjourned. SEVENTY-SECOND DAY. SATURDAY, April 16, 1870. The Convention met at nine o'clock A. M., and was called to order by the President, pro tempore (Mr. Bromwell). PRAYER. Prayer was offered by the Rev. Mr. Lombard of Springfield, as follows: Almighty God, our Heavenly father, as becometh our relation to Thee, we worship Thee this morning and seek Thy blessing, desiring to glorify Thee and receive in our hearts and minds influences to cheer and sanctify and solemnize our whole lives and our special duties. May a senseof Thy greatness and goodness inspire us to look to Thee for strength and courage to go forward in any good and just work to which we are aspiring, especially for others' interest and the promotion of happiness among our fellow men.O God we pray Thee that the time may laot be far distant when the gospel of Thy Son may permeate the government of mankind, and that the truth may at last be realized in peace everywhere on earth and good-will among men. O Father, we pray for the fraternity and unity of this Convention. Watch over them, and in their absence, over their families at home. Forgive uis our sins, lead us to Thy truth, and at last bring us all to worship and adore Thee above, through Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior. Amen. READING OF THIE JOURNAL. The Secretary proceeded to read the journal of the last day's proceedings when Mr. VANDEVENTER. Mr. Presi. dent: I move that the further reading of the journal be dispensed with. The motion was agreed to. Mr. BUXTON. The section adopted is far more definite than the one proposed, and I renew the motion to lay the motion to reconsider upon the table. The yeas and nays were ordered, and being taken, resulted-yeas 23, nay s 36as follows: YEAS. Gamble, Rice, Goodell, Ross, Goodhue, Sedgwick, Haines of Co'k,Sharp, :Hankins, Wait King, Wendling, McCoV, Whiting-23. Medill, RIGHT OF SUFFRAGE. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The question is on the motion to reconsider the vote by which the additional section offered by the gentleman from DeKalb [Mr. Sedgwick] was adopted-which is the unfinished business of yesterday. The Secretary read the additional section offered by Mr. Sedgwick, as amended by Mr. Hay, as follows: Every person of sound mind, and having the qualifications as to age and residence, provided for in the first section of this article, who is a resident of any election district in this State, shall be entitled to vote for any proposition to raise money by taxation for any purpose whatever, when said person has property that will be subjected to taxation, if such proposition be adopted. Mr. CARY. Mr. President: I believe the gentleman from DeKalb [Mr. Sedgwick] has a substitute. I see no necessity for debate. We can vote on the motion to reconsider. Mr. SEDGWICK. Mr. -President: Upon consultation with friends, I have prepared a substitute, which seems to meet the approbation of every one I have Allen of Crfd,Cummings, Skinner, Anthony, Emmerson, Springer, Atkins, Haines of Lake,Truesdale, Billings, Hart, Turner, Bromwell, Hayes, Underwood, Brown, McDowell, Wells. Browning, Pillsbury, Wheaton, Bryan, Robinson, Mr. President-26. Coolbaugh, Snyder, I t t t t s t t r a DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. APP.IL 1511870. 1299 -..6. Abbott, Archer, Bayne, Buxton, Cross, Eldredge, Enzlish, Forman, I-TAYS. Allen of Alex,Fuller, Anderson, Hanna, Benjamin, Harwood, Bowman I Ha.V, Cameron, Hifd'rup, Cary, Merriam, 4Church, Moore 4Cody, Neece, -Craig, Parker, Dement, Parks, Ellis, Perley, .Fox, Peirce, Poage, Scholflp,ld, Sherrill, Sutherland, Tincher, Tubbs, Vandeventer, Wagner, Wall, WashbuTn, Wilson, Wright-36. ABSENT, OR NOT VOTING. 1300 CONSTIT UTIOXAL COYETIO SATURDAY, sistently with the preceding action of the Convention upon the subject, upon any sound principle of reason. On yesterday, I think, on two different occasions, this Convention refused to con fer the ballot upon females. The last time the proposition was submitted to the Convention, we refused even to submit the question, whether they should be allowed to enjoy the elective franchise or not, to the vote of the people of the State-so strong was the expression of the Convention against the exercise of female sufrage Now, it seems, however, that the Convention is willing to confer a qualified suffrage upon females, for the reason, it is alleged, that thereby alone can their property be protected; and, it is assumed, that the only danger to the property of females is from special assessments. The argument upon which this substitute is supported, as well as the original section, is that those who own property should be allowed to vote, in order to protect that property. Let us for one moment consider whether that proposition is true. In what position does it place this Convention? Is it true that the only evil to be apprehended to property is from special assessments? Is it true that the only mode in which pr,operty is to be protected against fraud and violence or injustice is by voting against special assessments? Why, every maan of sense, here and elsewhere, knows that legal protection of property commences with the very first step by which property is acquired, and continues with each step by which it is transferred to others or is made to descend to posterity, and regulates and protects its ownership and enjoyment. There can scarcely be any legislation or a single judicial proceeding which I can now think of, which may not, either directly or remotely, affect the ownership or enjoyment of property. Special asses sments may be very burdensome upon property, but unjust and oppressive laws with regard to inheritance and with regard to the transfer and conveyance of property, may become equally dangerous and oppressive upon the property holder. Mr. CARY. Mr. President: I rise to a point of order. I would not do it if I thought debate would end with the gentleman's remarks. I would be very glad to hear my friend from Clark [Mr. Scholfield], but I must insist that it is out of order to argue the merits of the question before the vote is reconsidered. If debate would end with his remarks, as I before said, I would not say a word. Mr. SCIIOLFIELD. Mr. President: I would cheerfully yield; but the gentleman from DeKaib [Mr. Sedgwick], in his remarkso argued the merits of his substitute, and being ignorant of parliamentary usage, I did not know but that the present would be the only opportunity that I should have to be heard upon the question. If my remarks are not in order I will reserve what I further intended to say until the proper time. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The Chair is compelled to overrule the point of order. ber. SCHOLFIELD. Mr. President: Proceeding in the line of argument that I was attempting to follow, it is not true that it is essential to confer this right up on females in this particular instance alone, so that the y may protect their p roperty. If it is essential in this instance, it is essential in all other elections. If because she has property which might be imperiled, she ought to enjoy the right of the elective franchise, it necessarily follows that in selecting those who make, those who expound and those who enforce the laws, she should enjoy the elective franchise. She should be allowed to vote for governors, judges, members of the legislature, members of the board of supervisors, justices of the peace, and constables, because all directly, or indirectly, have it within their power to so act as in some degree to affect property. If the franchise shall be conferred because of the ownership of property, then I say to the gentlemen of the Convention that our conduct as a body is inexcusable in not saying that she shall vote in the election of the various officersof the government. If, however, it is because of intelligence, then let us have no property qualification, because women, like men, who are poor, very often have more intelligence than those who are rich. There can be no such test as this applied, in justice and in reason, in my poor judgment. It is true, it may be said that the levying of special assessments is an extraordinary proceeding,and therefore justifiesextraor dinary safeguards to property holders; yet, conceding this to be true, it is not the only extraordinary proceeding that ever occurs affecting the property of females. There are many others that can be read. ily conceived of, but in none of them is it proposed to confer female suffrage as a condition precedent to its exercise. In many districts of the country, no special tax, I apprehend, has ever been submitted to a vote of the people. In others, the instances are exceedingly rare, but in all portions of the State, day by day, taxes are levied and collected without any di rect precedent submission to the people. Property is sold, liens are created and titles are disposed of, without any direct vote of the people upon the questions in volved. I have believed that for social reasons it is not wise or expedient to confer the elective franchise on the female. This Convention has so expressed its views. I care not to enter into any discussion as to whether that determination is right or nlot. it is sufficient for the present argument that that determination is utterly inconsistent with the idea of conferring a qualified property suffrage. If it be true in principle that all persons who are taxed should have the right to vote for the person who represents them, how does this principle apply to the case of non-residents and minors, and persons laboring under disability, other than females, who cannot vote? It is not; attempted to relieve them, as I understand it. I may be allowed to reply to the gentleman froml DeKalb [Mr. Sedgwick], who says that during the revolution the doctrine was maintained that taxation and representation go together, that fronm the very first colonial government down to the very last that has been organized, it has nearer been true that every property holder was entitled to vote. I apprehend that it never will be true. In theory, fema~les always have been represented 1 t I i e t f e CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION SATURDAY, 1 300 that that is not correct reasoning. I apprehend that it would have this effect-, to take away a great deal of the thunder of the women who are traveling about the country and crying out for woman, suffrage, for this reason: This is a just principle, and no man can gainsay it. And now, when we concede to then3 justice and right, and the right to protect the property that the Legislature of the State have said they may hold and control, it does not necessarily follow that we must give them suffrage in political matters; but, on the other hand, it seems to me it takes away that thunder. I am one of those, sir, that are not at present prepared to go for woman suffrage as advocated by many, but I do think that it will have this good effect upon the country: it will lead to the correction of many abuses. There are, undoubtedly, many wrongs that women suffer, which I think it will have a tendency to correct. I believe that good will come out of this agitation. I do not think that the women of this country demand suffrage. I do not think if it was left to them to vote upon it today, they would vote for it. For one, I am not disposed to force it upon them and say they must exercise the right of the elective franchise whether they will or not. But I am prepared to do this act of justice, and say to them: "You may have the right to say whether your property shall be taxed or not." Now, sir, it is a fact well known to many in this Convention, that in the school districts all over the State there are often projects for building school houses, sometimes large, expensive? extravagant houses that they do not need. It very often happens that there are several widows, owners of farms in those districts, who have no voice in the ma~tter. Sometimes the votes are so close in those districts that if these persons were allowed to vote for themselves it would turn the scale. Now, I again appeal to every gentle man in this Convention to do this simple act of justice, and do it now, and not wait until all the other States, or most of them, have adopted it, and then be driven into the measure, because public opinion isall that way. But let us be discerning enough to see the signs of the times-see that this is an improvement that is demanded by society —see that it is a simple act of justice and right. As I remarked before, I am satisfied with the section as it passed on yesterday. It suits my mind, but I find that a great many others have some objection} on the ground of its containing what might be called "legislation," and in order to ob viate that I propose simply to leave the door open, so that the General Assembly may provide for this tight. I find~in look ing at the Constitution of Missouri, that that is the position that leaves it in; and it is a fact, I believe, that last winter, or very recently, the Legislature enacted a law, under the Constitution, giving the females the right to vote on questions of property taxation. [Here the hammer fell.] Mr. SCHOLFIELD. Mr. President: I am in favor of the motion to reconsider; but I am opposed to the substitute as well as to the section which was adopted on yesterday. In my humble judgment, neither the section, as adopted, nor the proposed substitute, can be justified con DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. The mother of the Gracchi, when asked for her jewels, pointed to her children. There are many women who have an abundance of children, but have no prop erty, who are quite as competent to vote as some penurious old maiden lady under sixty, who might not wish to vote taxes for schools and school houses to educate the children of other people. I dislike to have this idea of a property qualification in the Constitution at all -that property in this State, for any purpose, shall have power which brains, sense, intellect, immortal spirit, do not confer upon the citizens of Illinois. It is odious, and against the spirit of the age, sir. Give property more power than it has? Why, a woman having property has just the same and more power to protectit as a woman without property. I hope the section will be reconsidered, and will not be adopted. The question being on the motion of Mr. Cary, to reconsider the vote upon the additional section offered by Mr. Sedgwick, according to women who hold property the right to vote upon special assessments, a division was ordered. The Convention divided, when, there being fifty in the affirmative, and two in the negative, the motion was agreed to. Mr. SEDGWICK. Mr. President: I now offer my substitute. Mr. FOX. Mr. President: I move to lay the substitute upon the table, and I call for the yeas and nays. The question being upon the motion to lay the the substitute offered by Mr. Sedgwick upon the table, the yeas and nays were ordered. The Secretary proceeded to call the roll, when Mr. HAY. Mr. President: If I am not mistaken, several have come in who have not heard the substitute read. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. If there is no objection, the Secretary will suspend the calling of the roll and read the substitute for information. The Secretary read the substitute offered by Mr. Sedgwick, as follows: SEC. 9. The General Assembly may provide by law that all persons, without distinction of sex, who are property owners, may vote on all propositions to create any indebtedness, or to levy a tax on such property. The result was then announced-yeas 28; nays 32-as follows: Bromwellr, art, Truesdale, Brown, Haves, Whiting Browning, McDowell, Wright, Bryan, Pillsbury, Mr. President-25. Cody, So the motion of Mr. Fox to lay the substitute offered by Mr. Sedgwick upon the table, was not agreed to. Mr. SEDGWICK. Mr. President: I now move the previous question upon the adoption of the substitute. The question being, "shall the previous question be orderede" a division was ordered. The Convention divided, when, there being twenty-three in the affirmative and ten in the negative The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. There is no quorum voting. Mr. DEMENT. I call for the yeas and In theory, they are now represented, just as non-residents and minors are repre sented. T hey do not, it is true, them selves, vote for a representative, but others, who are by the policy of the gov ernment au thoriz ed to exercise the elec tive franchise, vote for them, and elect t h e representatives wh o do represent them. Furthermore, if taxation and v oting must go toge ther, how, or why do t hey go no farther th an speci al assess ments? In m y judgment, the C onvent ion will be guilt y of a gros s inconsistency if we determine first, that female suffrage ought n ot to be conferred, secondly, that it ought to be conferred in cases of special as sessments, wher e the re is pro pert y, in order to protect property. If it is to be conferred for t his r eason. it ought to be conferred s o as to effectually protect property. The right to prote ct property is not limited to special assessments any more than dang er to p roper ty is limited t o special assessments. Mr. UNDERWOOD. Mr. President: I shall vote for the reconsideration of this proposition, for the reason that it involves an unsound principle. I never can believe a property qualification to be necessary or proper for anything in civil government. If government is to be regarded as a partnership, and property is to be taken into consideration, then every p erson ought to vote exactly according to the extent of his or her property. That is the equitabla and just rule in partnership corporations and joint-stock companies, but it is not a sound rule in civil government. Now, sir, there is a large class of pers)ns that is not allowed to vote, either on taxation or any other subject in all civil x)cieties, for various reasons. Non-residents who own much property in the State, cannot vote upon any matter which affects that property. Minors cannot vote. Persons of unsound mind cannot vote, and, hitherto, females who have been regarded as under the protection of adult males, have not voted. Their fathers, brothers and sons are indissolubly connected with their property and happiness. If we adopt the principle that females should vote, I would, by all means, go further than mere property for property is a matter whicb is of minor importance. Life, liberty and the pursuit of happi:ness are infinite, when compared with mere property. Those higher objects of civil government need the protection of law much more than mere property interests. Society is so constituted that men and women who have property can always protect and take care of it themselves. Property gives power; money is power, money commands influence;J monley gives facilities for one to protect himself or herself. Why, sir, the species of taxation- which is provided for here is, i take it, school taxes, and voting to build school houses. Now, sir, the whole of that class of women who happen to own property will vote, and exclude another class, perhaps more intelligent and equally meritoriouse, from voting, who have many children and are competent to judge whether it would be judicious to have a school tax or a tax for a school house. It would be a property qualification, which is justly odious among our people.. -. 326 nays. Mr. WELLS. Mr. Pre sident: There being no quorum voting, I desire to sub. mit an amendment, i f in or der. The previous ques tion has n ot been ordered. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. But the yeas and nays have been demanded, and until the Chair asc ertains whethe r the yeas and nays shall be ordered, no motion can be entertained. Mr. DEMENT. I withdraw the call for the yeas and nays. Mr. SEDGWICK. I renew it. Mr. WELLS. Mr. President: The motion having been withdrawn, I offer the following substitute. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. It may be read for information. Mr. ROSS. Mr. President: I rise to a point of order. The previous question has been moved, that motion has not been decided, and the yeas and nays have been demanded. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The demand has been withdrawn. The Secretarv read the substitute offered by Mr. Wells, as follows: Whenever the question of levying a tax is submitted to a vote, all owners of property situated within the district to be taxed, may vote on the question of levying such tax. This question shall be submitted separately. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The Chair will be compelled to hold a substitute not in order, there being one sub. stitute pending. That substitute is subject to amendment. Mr. WELLS. I offer this as an amendment. Mr. SEDGWICK. ]Vlr. President. Is it properly an amendment?. How will they read together? The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The amendment is germane to the subject, and although it would occasion some repetition if adopted, that would be the business of the Convention and not of the Chair. Mr. WELLS. Mr. President: There seems to be a disposition on the part of this Convention to allow women to vote, provided they own property, under the pretext that it is for the purpose of protecting their property. There has been no attempt to allow women to vote for the election of assessors, who assess their property year after year. There are many districts where no special assessmenct has ever been made, but assessors are elected and State and colunty taxes are levied yearly upon property owned by woolen as well as by men. It is proposed to shut out the right of women too vote for the assessor who is APRIL 16) 18,iO. 1301 YEAS. Allen of Alex.,Goodhue, Anderson, Hanna, Archer I-Iarwood, Bowman, Moore, Camero]A, Neece, Dement, Parker, Eills, Parks, Forman, Perley, Fox, Rice, Gamble, Scholfield, Sharp, Sherrill, Underwood, Wall, Washburn, Wells, Wendling, Wilson-28. NA.Y$. Goodell, Ross, Ilaines of Colk,Sedgwick, Hankins,, SP'I r I-lay, S. t h grel.'- d, Hild:rup, Tincher, King, Tubbs, McCoy, Vandeventer, Medill, Wagner, Merriam. Wait, Peir'ce Wheaton-32. Poage: Abbott, Bayne, Benjamin Buxton, Cary, Chl3rch, Craig, Cross, Eldredge, E-nglish, Fuller, NT, OR NOT VOTING. Coolbaugh, Robinson, Cummings, Snvder. Emmerson, Skinner, Raines of L'k, Turner, Allen of Crfd. Anthony, Atkins, Billings, 1302 CONSTITUTIONAL ()OVETiO SATURDAY, ty. There are a large number of foreigners in the State who are not naturalized, but who have filed their intention and intend to be naturalized, and who own property, to a large amount, which is taxed without their consent. If the grand "Bunker Hill" spirit pr evails so broadly through this Convention, as is talked about, why not extend the right to vote to property whoever owns it, wherever the owner may reside? The foreigner who, from choice, has cast his fortunes among us, who has invested all his property in a home for himself and family, may find his property taxed without his consent. The amendment I propose will save them, and I call upon these "Bunker Hill" orators who hope to make capital out of their buncomb about women, to remember a much larger class may suffer. Let them raise their voices in behalf of all property owners. Mr. CHURCH. Mr. President: One would think, from the excitement with which this proposition is opposed, that it is something very unusual or never heard of before. I do not see anything very new in it. It has been on our statute book for a great many years, but it has been urged that possibly that statute was in conflict with the Constitution of the State, regarding the qualification of voters. The objections raised by the gentleman from Peoria [LMr. Wells], are not well taken. If the gentleman is so unfortunate as to live in one ward, in the magni. ficent city of Peoria, and own valuable property in another ward in that same fine city, he can conform himself to the provision of the substitute before the Convention now, by moving into that other ward, and thereby putting himself within the provisions of the proposition. There is nothing in the proposition except a qualification of section one, which can be construed to prevent the General Assembly from passing just such kind of laws as they have passed, and such a law as now exists and is acted upon, and without objection, I presume, in t he very districts of the gentlemen who are raising these hostilities to allowing female property hold~ers and persons who are not citizens of the United States, to vote upon these questions of levying taxes, and of burdening their property with the creation of municipal debts. There is right in it; there is justice in it. The laws of this State allow foreigners to hold property. In that regard this State has been more liberal than many States of the Union, for foreigners are here placed upon a par with citizens in regard to holding property, and transsmitting it to their posterity. It is proposed simply to leave it in the power of the General Assembly to do justice to that class of property holders who cannot participate, without allegiance, in the general political affairs of the State, yet are allowed to vote whenever the simple right of property exists. This is not a property qualification. On the contrary, it is a proposition allowing persons to vote on questions of property, who otherwise wou'd not be voters-femaleq, if you please, who own property subject to taxation;' foreigners, if you please, who own property subject to taxation. All others, who are general voters by section one, can vote on this same ques r- ion, without holding property. to levy the regular tax upon the property, and allow them to vote a tax for some little special purpose. Mr. TINCHER. I would like to ask the gentleman a question. Did the gentleman vote yesterday to allow the females to vote? Mr. WELLS. No, sir. I voted against it, and I am going to vote against it every time the question is presented. Now, sir, this proposition to allow women to vote for the purpose of protecting their property, is one of the foolish humbugs of these woman's rights women in pantaloons and petticoats. It seems to be a miserable attempt to pander to some foolish notion, or some unconsidered idea that these women have, in regard to allowing women the right to vote. It is well known that women property owners do not need that right. They are protected, and everybody knows it. There is not a gentleman upon this floor who would not say, if asked the question, that they are protected in their property rights just as much as minors are protected. Why, then, introduce this proposition? It seems to me, as I said before, a pandering to this woman's rights notion of the present day. Although I confess that I am opposed to the whole thing, yet the substitute I offered is broader and does of itself do justice to property owners. Now, sir, allow me an illustration. In every city of this State there are men living in one ward who own property right across the street in the adjacent ward where the people may be building a magnificent school-house, for which they will tax his property. Now, why should not that man be allowed to go across the street and vote, in order to pro tect his property? Mr. SEDGWICK. Mr. President: I would like to ask the gentleman a question. Does not the substitute that I offered give the Legislature the right to give him that privilege if they choose to do.so? ~I r. WELLS. Perhaps so, but I want it to be done without disguise. If it is proposed to bamboozle this Convention, and by some double meaning proposition get this thing in here, I vote against it. I want it to be voted upon fairly and squarely, so that there can be no dispute about it. ~ If we are to allow resident property holders the right to protect their property by the ballot) just because they are women, it seems to me thaft it is wrong to prohibit other property holders from the exercise of the same privilege) just be. cause they happen to live ten feet outside of the line of the district or ward where the vote is to be taken. I sinlcerely hope that this proposition will be voted down. M'r. TINCHER, (in his seat). TWill not the gentleman give the right of suffrage to the women who raise the children? Mir. WELLES. That would seem to be just. If we are goiing to give it to women, give it to the women who raise the children, sand give each woman as many votes as she has children. There may be some sense in that. And, further, this proposition is unjust, unless we g'[ve to non-voting foreignLers, owning property in a district, the right to vol to protcc~their proper But, sir, there is nothing alarming about this proposition. There is nothing new about it. There is nothing but will be welcome to all parts of the State. If such were not the case, I think we would have heard an immense cry in regard to the provisions existing in our school law and laws for incorporating towns and cities, but the objection is raised here for the first time. I think it was the sense of the Con. vention, yesterday, that this principle should be recognized in the Constitution, and the objection to the proposition, as adopted yesterday, making it absolute, is now removed. The Constitution is not encumbered by it. It is simply left to the people hereafter to adopt that principle, through their representatives in the General Assembly, should the people demand it. That is all there is to it. Mr. DEMENT. Mr. President: I would like to hear the proposition and the substitute read. The Secretary read the substitute of: fered by Mr. Sedgwick, and the amendment thereto, offered by Mr. Wells, as follows: [Substitute offered by Mr. Sedgwick.] SEC. 9. The General Assembly may provide by law that all persons, without distinction of sex, who are property owners, may vote on all propositions to create any indebtedness,or to levy a tax on such property. [Amendment offered by Mr. Wells to the substitute offered by Mr. Sedgwick.] Whenever the question of levying a tax is submitted to a vote, all owners of property situated within the district to be taxed, may vote on the question of levving such tax. This question shall be submitted separately. Mr. HANKINS. Mr. President: There seems to be a power or a right conferred here, that has not heretofore been exercised. Now, I am not alarmed in regard to this proposition. I believe that every person who is asked to pay money, ought to have the right to say whether he or she is willing to pay or not. This gives to persons who hold property, when they are asked to pay a tax for a certain purpose, the right to say whether they are willing or not. It takes no right from any one, and those who have not property are not injured by it, from the fact that they are not called upon to pay money. Mr. CHURCH. Those that have not property would still be allowed to vote, as well as those that have property. It is not proposed by the section offered, to abridge the right of any voter. Mr. HANKINS. Mr. President: If I understand this proposition, women who do-not own property cannot vote under it, and voters who own no property can still vote. This confers suffrage upon those who have not heretofore had the right to vote —when a question of the taxation of property for certain purposes arises. I believe it is right in principle. It has been said by the gentleman from Peoria [M~r. Whells] that persons who hap. pen to own property outside of the dis. trier in which they live, cannot vote on anythingf Which affects that property, and he claims that this is wrong. Why, he might as well say that a person who lives ill Missouri hlas the right to vote in Illinois, because he has property here. There is nothing in the objection at all. I hold that when we have conferred the right on a certain class of p-ersons f to hold property, and given them all Iright thereto, and when xthat property is CO'N STITUTIONAL CON'VENTION SATURDAY) 1302 DEBATES AMN) PROCEEDINGS. votes, and so on. If we are going to put r suffrage upon a property qualification, let , us do so consistently and exclusively. If r we attempt to abandon the present prin ciple, let us adopt the property qualifieca. , tion exclusively. I am distinctly and un1 equivocally opposed to a property quali fication as a right to exercise the elective , franchise. I think it a relic of barbar ism, incompatible with the day and age i in which we live. It is not now and L never was a feature of the American syst tem of government, and I trust never will be. There is nothing fair or just about the thing. Here is a female owning, say a million of dollars in the county. A prop osition is raised to vote a heavy tax. Then she will have only the same voice, not withstanding her property, that a male with five dollars has. She may pay fifty times as much tax on her property as her neighbor, yet she has only the same voice. This is contrary to every principle of taxation upon which we have ever prc. ceeded. It is neither just nor generous to the male or the female. We say to ore female: "Although you may have suffi cient judgment and capacity to decide, you shall not vote, because you have n t property to be asses.sed." To another who has property, you say: "You, with two millions of property, must stand on a par with a person who has but one hun dred dollars." That is not the rule in joint stock cor porations. There every vote is based on a share. If you hold a million of stock, you stand in the same ratio as against an other who holds a hundred dollar2' worth. Your property there is the sole basis, the exclusive foundation, for the vote. There is no more excuse for allowing a vote at a direct election, on a question of levying a tax, than at any other election. If I were to vote to allow females to vote at an election on levying a tax, I should alt o vote to allow them the right to vote at every election. When the people vote so send a man to a Constitutional Convention, for instance, they send him there to say how much tax shall be levied for all~purposes; how much shall be the salaries of the executive officers, and how much to all parts of the government. Every dollar of the money to support the system here devised, muint be raised from taxable property. Yet we say fma~les shall not vole on that question. Why? Is it not a question of taxation? So in regard to this taxs to be levied by county courts. We say it shall not go beyond five per cent. Suppose the county court creates a debt of fivee per cent., what chance have the females to increase that indebtedness? It is merely a my~th, a delusion held out to them. It is simply trifling with the affections of the fmale portion of the community — a thing I do not approve of. I am in favor of dealing fairly with them, whether mnaking them voters or not voters. They deserve to be treated with decent respect. Every clection invoives taxation. Avery man elected to officec has some voice in regard to taxes to be levied. If put in office, he is allowed to do it indirectly, if not directly. W~e allow county commissioners or supervisors to create an indebtecdness of fives per cent. Under thlis Constitution, that cannot be increased. Thrn: right to cast he r vot e upon the questiov of mortgaging her farm, her house, or heI property of whatever form it may be in as every male person in that precincts township? Who can show me that a mar., owning one acre of land, which would be affected to the amount of five dollars, should have the right to vote, while a female, owning one hmndred acres of land, whose property is to be affected to the amount of five hundred dollars, should be deprived of her right to vote upon the proposition to impose a mortgage involving one-tenth of the value of her entire property, as well as that of the entire township? This question should be viewed as a local, pecuniary matter. Citizens of the United States-female as well as maleresiding within an election precinct, should unquestionably have a right to vote on the question of special taxes, or mortgages upon property therein, and I have heard no argument against this proposition that goes to the merits of the question. Gentlemen argue as though it were the same thing as opening the ballot box, and all its privileges in government to felnales, when the matter is, in fact, restricted to the simple question of allowing each citizen, miale or female, to protect his or her property from local, special taxes, or burdens for special purposes. And, if a female has no right to protect her property by ballot, in questions of this kind, in my opinion, she has no right to vote as a stockholder in a bank or railroad company, or any other corporation. Mr. HANNA. Mr. President: I did not intend to enter into this debate, but I am reluctantly induced to do so. It is very evident that this body is disposed to trifle with the affections of the gentler portion of the community. I think they are entitled to be treated fairly, and with becoming respect, and any attempt to trifle with them, or treat them discourteously, meets with my disapproval. Several times I have endeavored to have incorporated in this Constitution a clause providing that taxes should onlyv be levied, except to a very limited extent, by a vote of the people-and every time the proposition has been voted down. I brought forward a measure providing that no tax above one per cent. should be levied without a vote of the people. That was voted down. When the question was up with regard to railroad subscription, I took ground that the people had a right to have a vote on that question. I was voted down thee other day upon the question of municipal indebtedness, when presenting a proposition that no tax exceeding one per cent. should be levied without a vote of the people. This Convention has repeatedly declared in substance that no vote shall be taken to create indebtedness on property; and now to say that while there shall be no such elections, females may vote at such elections, is in my opinion, a clear case of trifling with their affections. I am not willing to treat them in such a discourteous manner. The gentleman from Cook [Mr. Medill] compares this question to that of voting in private c-rporations. But, sir, in that view, females and all ethers should vote in proportion to the amount of property represented. One hundred dollars should cast one vote, and a thousand dollars ten t s s c APRIL 16) 1870. 1303 to be taxed for the purpose of raisng money to build school houses, the persons who own that property should have the right to vote whether the money shall be taken from them. To exclude that class from so voting is wrong in principle, because it is takidg money from them without their consent. I hope the right will be given to the General Assembly to make the necessary laws to protect the people who have this property. I have known instances where people who had property were taxed without their consent for railroad and other purposes, and justly considered it unfair. I have always considered that those people should have that right, and that. when they, without having that right, are taxed, they are treated UDjUStly. It is just and proper that this right should be given them. Mr. CARY. Mr. Pres,deiat: I move to lay the amendment o the gentleman from Peoria [Mr. Wells] on the table. The motion was agreed to. Mr. MEDILL. Mr. President: I voted in favor of reconsidering section nine, in order to oive members an opportunity to more fully discuss the merits of tl-ie question than they had last evening, and I hope that the proposition will be maturely considered before we act definitely upon it. In my opinion, the principle laid down here in section nine is a sound one, and is based upon justice and right. It docs not involve what might be termed a political question. It is di'sconnected entirely from such an exercise of the - elective franchise as would be involved in electing a president, congress, legislature or executive officers of the government, or in laying down public policies for the government of the country. It is a sing,e proposition involving a local,obj ect, viz: The imposing of a tax or mortgage for a special purpose on the property of the people of a town or school district. It is something that exclusively concerns the people of a particular municipality. I cannot see why a widow may not vote upon a question of levn, in -- a tax or mcrtgage upon her property t build a school house or bridge, for instance, as well as her husband might have done duridg his ,.ife time. I can see uo reason why the farm upon which the husband lived 1304 ()'OTJTUTIOAL OOYENTIO SATURDAY, forms us, sir, that we are "trifling with the affections of the women of this country," and that he does not approve of it. There is one thing in this discussion that has been a feature of it from the beginning, which I do not approve, and that is that we speak with levity of the women of the State of Illinois. These women, sir, are bound to us by the most sacred ties. We owe it to them, and we owe it to oureselves, to speak of them everywhere with the highest respect, and that man, whoever he may be, who wilfully, deliberately and knowingly, in a public assembly, speaks with disrespect of the female sex, in my opinion, deserves the universal disapprobation of the body which he addresses, and of the people of the entire State. I hope that an end will be put to this thing now and forever. Let us remember that in talking of the "women" of this State, we are talking of our own mothers, our own wives, our own sisters, our own daughters; our own female relations, friends and neighbors. And let us remember that when the time comes when the men of this State feel towards the women of this State as some of these gentlemen talk, then all our institutions, p olitical, civil and social, will have had the axe laid to their root, and sooner or later will be buried in undistinguishable ruin. It is upon the respect with which we treat the women of the country that our social and domestic institutions depend, and I protest against any member of the Convention saying anything here that indicates a disposition to treat their character, their rights, their interests, their feelings, with anything else but the most profound respect and regard. Now, sir, as to the immediate question before the Convention, I have always been opposed to the proposition introduced by my friend from DeKalb [Mr. Sedgwick], although 1 know right well that he introduced it because he felt it to be his duty to do so. But, taking up the argument upon that question, right where it was left by my friend fromi Cook [Mir. Medill], and extending the question that he asked of the members of this Convention, I would like to know upon what principle we can give to woswlen the right to vote upon questions of property and deny the right to vote upon any other question? Isproperty more sacred to women than anything else b Are property rights dearer to them than all other civil rights? Is property dearer to them than the education of their children, than all the laws that are made for the preervation of liberty, of reputation and life? Is "filthy lucre" a thing so pure and undefiled that in the estimation of the noble women of the country, their rights in it are more sacred than in anything else? God forbid that this Convention ever should establish such a proposition as that. If women have the right to vote upon questions of property, they halve a right to vote upon all other questions. The conclusion is irresistable. If a woman is qualified to vote upon questions of property, she is qualified to vote upon all other questions. If she has a right to vote as to whether a school tax should be levied in her district or not, she has a right to vote for President of the United States, and no one can deny its We have got to follow this doctrine to its logical and irresistable conclusion, 1304 UONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION SATURDAYs where is the chance for a female now to vote on that? Do we propose to vote another tax? Where is the margin for it? The measure is full. She had no voice in creating that indebtedness. It was done perhaps through the instrumentality of a dozen men. She had, and can have no voice, and, in my opinion, rightfully. We have said she shall not be a voter. This a mere delusion proposing suffrage at elections on tax questions. Every election to a certain extent, involves taxation on property. Here is a man who is a candidate for the Legislature. Before that body comes the question whether we will build anew State house, to cost $5,000,000, and whether we will appropriate $10,000,000 or $15,000,000 for the enlargement of the Illinois and Michigan canal. If these donations are to be made, where is the money to come from? It must come from taxes on the property of this State, and nowhere else. Every one understands that the election simply turns on whether that money shall be voted or not. Yet females are not to vote in that election. With all this I am content. I am opposed to her voting at any election; but if she is to vote at all, I would just as soon she would vote at all elections. But then we try to sugar-coat this pill, and offer it to that unfortunate class of the community which gentlemen have endeavored to persuade us here are so much oppressed and down-trodden, and sa.y to them: "At such an election which will never take place, you may vote." We say that when a specific question is su-bmitted to the people, the women shall be allowed to vote upon it. When are we to submit that question? I brought forward a measure here to the effect that no municipal corporation should create an indebtedness exceeding one per cent. taxation, without a vote of the people. The Convention has decided that the people shall not vote on that question. Then I came fbrward with another proposition, that no tax exceeding a certain per cent. should be levied in any municipal corporation, without a vote of the people. The Convention has decided that no such vote shall be taken by the people. And now, sir, I think; the accusation is just that we are trifling with the sex when we promise them that, if a certain election ever should take place, they shall have the privilege of voting at that election. Wke have decided to have:no such election. The proposition, brought forward by myself, has been signally defeated in this body. The members of the Convention have said, by their votes, that there is to be no such election on this question of taxation. Anld I appeal to every member on this fDoor for the vindication of what I say on that subject. I have endeavored on this floor, on three or four different occasions, to secure to the people! of course, I mean the legal voters the right of saying when and how they should be taxed, and it has been universally defeated. No longer ago than day b~efore yesterday the proposition was brought forward by me again, and was voted down; and if we are not to allow the people to vote upon this questior, I say it is trifling with the affections of the female sex to pretend to confer upon them a privilege which is merely fictitious and delusive. Mr. PARKS. Mr. President: The gentleman from Wayne O~r. Hanna] in and if we establish in this Constitution as a principle that she has a right to vote at all, we must concede that right and establish it all the way through. I confess I was astonished at the position taken by the Convention yesterday. We said first that upon questions of prop erty, such questions as were included in the proposition offered by my friend from DeKalb [Mr. Sedgwick], that the women of this State should have a right to vote, vote absolutely, unconditionally, and we put that in the Constitution. Immedi ately after, when it was proposed to sub mit to the whole people of the State the question as to whether women should have the right to vote generally, we re fused to let the people vote upon that proposition. Is not that a strange, unac countable, indefensible position for this Convention to put itself in? Give wo men the right to vote upon questions of property alone, absolutely, in the Consti tution, and make it a part of the Consti tution, and deny to the people of this State the right to vote as a separate and independent proposition, upon the ques tion whether women should vote at all. Why, all that the friends of female suf frage ask of us is that we will submit to the people of this State to be voted upon as a separate article, the question of fe male suffrage generally. They have nev er asked us to put such a thing in the Constitution, as my friend from DeKalb [Mr. Sedgwick] has proposed to this Con vention. They do not ask any such lim ited, doubtful, partial, I was going to say unintelligible proposition as that, to be submitted by this Convention a proposition that squints very strongly, as it seems to me, at basing the right of suffrage upon property. I do not understand that they have asked any ouch thing as that; but they have asked, and do ask that we sub mit to the people the question as to whether female suffrage is right or wrong. They do not ask us to vote for female suffrage either now or at the polls. They do not ask us to put it into the Constitu tion. They ask on behalf of the friends of female suffrage, comprising hundreds and thousands of the best men and wo men in the State, the privilege of voting upon that question, aLd they say if the people are disposed to vote it down, let them do so. Public sentiment in this State is overwhelmingly opposed to it, but I ask this Convention how we call give to women the right to vote upon questions of property, and refuse to give to the people of the State the right to vote upon the question of femnale suffrage at all. It is the strangest, most inconsistent, anld most incomprehensible position I ever felt called upon to discuss. They have a right to vote upon that question. What harm can it do anybody? They just want to vote as a separate and inldepenldent proposition upon the question whethcr female suffrage is right or wrong. They do not even ask us to vote for it ourselves. They say, "submit it to the people, and let themn vote upon it, one way or the other,}' and yet we refuse to do it, after putting ina the Constitution the doctrine that women have the right to vote upon questions of property and taxation. I do hope the C:onvention will light itself, and place itself consistently before the people in this regard. I have nothing to say upon the merits of the ques API 6 80 -TSADPOEIJG.10 Then, sir, the reamon why I do not go to the length of my friend from Logan [Mir. Parks], is simply that I do not be lieve the women of the State ask for it. We have, sir, a few itinerant lecturers traveling over the country agitating this question, some receiving as high as two hundred dollars a night for their services. [Laughter.] I say nothing against their character. I do not attack their respecta bility. I have nothing to say against them upon any ground whatever of that nature. They are making it pay. My distinguished friend from Peoria [Mr Wells] has undergone, as I imagine from the tone of his remarks here, the influence of a woman suffrage convention in Peoria a few days ago, and the effect it has had upon him is similar to what it would have upon every intelligent gentleman from any part of the State, who had been sub jected to a similar infliction. Sir, the demand for woman suffrage is a lawful offshoot of some of the isms and doctrines taught throughout the land by a certain class of propagandists who are taking up everything peculiar for the pur pose of obtaining popularity or notoriety. There is no demand for the submission of this question coming up from the class t o be directly interested in it. The whole agitation of it comes simply from the excited discussion of it by a very few, and by persons who are acting from mo tives which we may very well suspect are not the motives they profess. That, sir, is my main reason for not taking an active part in favor of woman suffrage in this Convention. There is no demand for it, from that class, in referring to whom, gentlemen have aroused the bet ter part of our natures, when speaking of wives, sisters, relatives and neighbors. The demand for woman suffrage is not coming from that class. I will not take the ground of ridicule, and say it comes from "long-haired men, and short haired women," as one gentleman has said, but I assert, that there is not the shad ow of a feeling, among women general lIv, throughout the State in favor of it. There are respectable gentlemen who approve of it, and respectable women who advo cate it, but all its advocates number very few. They are indeed like the famous angels' visits, "few, and far between." We do not fijd a wide-spread. sentiment f among the masses upon- the subject. There is no demand for it particularly in to tf amilies, by the hearth stone at the fireside and around the family altar. There is no demand for it in society where the women are mothers, where wives and sisters move, and where we associate with them. Again, sir, I do not participate in this discussion in behalf of woman suffrage, f for another reason. If the gentleman from Logan [Mr. Parks] or any other advocate of woman suffrage upon this flavor, will first convince me that women desire it, and will then convince me that it will not degrade and debase them, and lower them in the estimation of men; that it will not bring woman down to the level of the influence of the potifician, from the exalted position she now occupies, I will be a willing advocate' of woman suffrage. Convince me she demands it, convince me upon grounds of justice and right, that she should have the right; that it will not degrade her; that it will not take the wife whom man- loves and cherishes+ because she is his wife, and the tion of female suffrage. But I insist upon the right of the people to settle that question by a popular vote; and I insist further and earnestly that it is bad policy and will have a bad effect to deny that right. Mr. WENDLING. Mr. President: I rise not for the purpose of discussing the merits of this question, but to join with the distinguished gentleman from Logan [Mr. Parks], in the earnest protest which he has made against the seeming disre spect with which the character of woman has been handled (as I judge from his remarks only) in this Convention. The limited attention which I have given this discussion has not allowed me to discover sufficient to warrant any very severe re marks upon that subject; but I gather from the earnestness with which he has discussed that subject, that something of that kind had transpired. In fact, now that I remember, something of that kind came within my own observation; and I desire to rise from this side of the cham ber to join with him in entering a solemn and earnest protest against any disrespect ful language, and against any other sen timent than that which springs from the highest veneration for woman. As was well said, when we are talking of "women" we are talking of our noth ers, than which there is no more sacred name in the language. We are talking of our sisters, than which there is no dearer name in the language. We are talking of all that makes society, and everything we live for, near and dear to us; and, sir, I repeat, that I join with him in the earn est, solemn protest against that which he has protested, and against that which we have heard on this floor. Sir, it is not the manner in which to deal with this question. It is not the manner in which the arguments made by the gentlemen on the other side should be met; it is not the spirit that will enlist sympathy from either of the sides arrayed against each other on this question, and I respectfully submit that the motives of respect which I have mentioned, that propriety, if no higher motive, should govern us, should induce gentlemen to withhold any further remarks of the kind indicated in the discussion which they choose to make on this question. While I am on the floor, let me say, in reply to the distinguished gentleman from Logan [Mr. Parks], who chose to digress from the? subject to the question of we) man suffrage, which I conceive is ~ot properly before us I mean the question of woman suffrage in generai —I am with him, in feeling and sentiment, as far as he goes, ill regard to the respect and veneration which should be paid to the sex. In regard to his conclusions, I differ from him ibfr two simple reasons. In the first place I am not aware that the women of the State of Illinois have asked this Convention to confer upon them the right of suffrage. I will make the assertion, sir, and believe I am making it without fear of success ful contradiction, that of the married members of this Convention, not six of their wives would come here anld ask for the right of suffrage. I do not believe, sir, that in the families of all the members of this Convention there could be found six-of their daughters, cr of their mothers, or of their wives, who would presen~. themselves at the door of this Convention and ask for the right to voe. $27 DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. APP.IL 16, 1870. 1305 mother of his children, whom he wor ships as the goddess of his household, and dra I ,g her down to the lower'evel of the politician, and give her the ballt in stead of the cradle Mr. CO-DY. Instead of the broom. [Laughter.] Mr. WENDLTNG. -Yes- sir; instead of the broom or the needle or her Bible, it'the gentleman chooses-convii3ce me it will not have a degrading effect upon woman, and I will willingly advocute woman suffrage, ai3di sir, I wi..l be an honest advocate. I am in earnest in what I say, and I will fulfill my pledge; but I willuever co, sent to degrade woman, and taking her from her high position she now occu. pies, drag her down to the level which voters and politicians occupy. Sir, every gentleman upon this floor can bear testimony that there is little that is pure, elevating or refititig in the political canvasses of to-day. It is a fact to be regretted, but, nevertheless, it is a fact. Sir, when we talk about bringing woinan down to that level, we are not acquiescidg in the demands of justice and right. We are simply iDfliCtiDg Upon woman the greatest iDi ury that could be conceived. It is contrary, I apprehend, to the teaching of that pure religion, to administer which is the highest object of womauls life. If she is enfrauclaised, in stead of teachiDLY the prayer of that reli giOD, instead of eaching all that elevates, and ennobles, and purifies her'vhildren, makit,g them good, upright citizens; in stead of cultivating purity, and upright ness, and piety, in her sons and daughters, she wiil be diverting her attention to things that are lower, things that cannot tend to benefit and elevate her. I think it was Napoleon who said that France depchded more upon her mothers than her army, or a seiutiment to that effe,,,t. There is deep philosophy in it, and there is a, deep. philosophy in the fact that the stability, and all. that constitutes a great nation, depends upon the mothers more- than upon- all others, and allelse. The gentleman may say that they will elevate and purify politics- Ad:niit it.,i Yet, sir, he cannot deny, that they will iiot then have time for the discharge of duties s -now devolved upon them, -Lf addi 130(3 CONSTITUTIOXAL CO~YE~TJO SATURDAY,. nelia, who, when asked, "Where are your jewels?" pointed to her children. The story and the sentiment are old, but, Mr. President, it is a noble sentiment. Children are not only the mother's jew Is, but the jewels of the nation. If we are going to confer suffrage on women, why not give it to them on subjects pertaining to the interests of their children? I do not propose to go into a ten minutes' lecture on temperance, but I ask if the mothers of these children are not more interested in granting (r refusing the privilege of selling spiritous and malt liquors to their children, than in levying a petty tax for building a school house? I throw out these suggestions, and hope they will be seriously considered. While I am opposed to female suffrage at all, if we do confer it, make it broad enough for all to enjoy it. I think this attempt is cowardly. Delegates have placed themselves on the record aga nst bestowing woman suffrage in general, yet they come in now and would take a slight step-a delusive effort, in order, I suppose, to make a little buncombe, or prepare for an easy fall. I would rather give my vote for throwing down the bars entirely and giving them the full privilege of suffrage. Mr. TINCHER. Would you like to join the twelve apostles who voted with us yesterday? If so, we will take you in. Mr. FOX. I say not. I am opposed to granting this right at all. But if I were going to confer the right, I would confer it in all things. I would not, at any rate, draw this odious distinction of property qualification. The reason I offer the substitute is, that if I cannot get exactly what I want, I wish to have this modified, so as to approximate to my views. I am, at all events, utterly opposed to making property distinction among individuals of the same class. The question being on the amendment offered by Mr. Fox, the Secretary read the substitute offered by Mr. Sedgwick, and the amendment thereto offered by aMr. Fox, as follows: [Substit ute offered by Mr. Sedgwick.] SHe. 9. The General Assembly may pro. -vide by law that all persons, without distinction.of sex, who are property owners, may eovote on all propositions to create any indebted. Sness, or to levy any tax on such property. [Amendment offered by Mr. Fox.] Strikeout the words "who are property owners' also add, after the word "property," at the~end of the section, the words "and upon all questions relating to the granting of licenseS to zell spirituous or malt liquors." pMr. SE):WICK. Mr. President: I move to lay the amendment on the taI hav no hsitany in eelarng myble. Cos era, Udrod tfemThe yeas and nays were ordered, and ibeing taken, resulted- yeas, 23; nays, 38 /as follows:G Archer, Bayne, Bowman, Cody, Dement, Ellis, Forman, Fox, Fuller, Gamble, Mr. PARKS. No, sir; I said this: If we put into the Constitution a provision allowing woman to vote upon sibjects of taxation, every consideration of justice and consist enc y requires that w e should follow out the principle and give her the right to vote on o ther question s, and that, therefore, I was opposed to the proposition of the gentleman f rom DeKalb [Mr. Sedgwick], because I was opposed to this Convention establishing female suffrab ge in any form, or to any extent, without submitting the question to a vote of the people. But I said this further: Every consideration of justice to the voters of the State requires that we should allow them an opportunity to vote on this question. I do not remember the exact words, but that was the substance of what I said. I believe I said further, and I now repeat it, that it will be very unwise to deny them that right, no matter what may be our opinion of the merits of the question. The gentleman from Shelby [Mr. Wendling] has been beating the airanswering a speech that neither I nor any one else in this Convention ever made. Mr. WENDLING. Did not the gentleman say he was in favor of female suffrage? Mr. PARKS. No, sir. Mr. WENDLING. is not the gentleman in favor of it? [Laughter]. Mr. PARKS. Mr. President: That is not the question. Mr. WENDLING. It is the question I ask, though. Mr. PARKS. The question is whether we shall allow the people to vote upon female suffrage. Mr. FOX.-' gr. president: I would ask if an amendment to the substitute is in order? The PRESIDENT. prg tempore. It is. Mr. FOX. I would ask to have the substitute read. The Secretary read the substitute offered by Mr. Sedgwick, as follows: ~gc. 9. The General Assembly may provide by law that all persons, without distinction of sex, who are property owners, may vote on all propeitieis to create any indebtedness,or to levy a tap on suen property. Mr. FOX. Mr. President: I offer the -following amendment. The Sre-taxy read-the amendment of-fered by Mr. Fo~ as-foilows: Strike ou~ the wor4:s +"w.ho are property ~owners;" also add after the wor~d "property"7 Rat the end of the substitX3ute,'thee words "and :upon all question relating to ~the granting of licerices to setlslp'~it~uoufi or,:m~alt liquors." Mr. FOX. Mr. Presidentt: I do not propose to enter into any extended dis:cussion of this subject'... I have no hesitnany -in ~decaring my ,opposition to female safrage. But, sir, iif this Convention proposes tocb'nfer that xightiu any regard, I amsuppoled to Bmaking any distinction, drawi~ng.odious fines of demarkation betw~een w~omen. I cannot conceive why a powx woman should not have as much right to cast a :rote where she has an interest, as8 a poor mall-as in case of a special tam' i would strike out that distinction between jprop.erty holders and those not holding property. if we bestow the privilege at all, give it to all alike-spoor as well as rich. Allusion has been made, I believe, first by the gentleman from St. Clair [Mr. Underwood] to the Roma~ matron CJor Allen of Crfd., Coolbaugh- Robinson, Anthony, Cummnings, Snyder, Atkins, Emmerson, Skinner, Billings, Haines of Lake,Truesdale, Bromiwell, Hart, Turner, Brown, Hayes, Wait, Browning, McDowell, Wright, Bryan, Pillsbury, Mr. President-24. So the motion of M r. Sedgwick to lay on thie table the amendment offered by Mr. Fox, was not agreed to. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The question is upon the adoption of the amendment offered by the gentleman from Schuyler [Mr. Fox]. The Secretary read the substitute of Mr, Sedgwick, as amended by the amendment offered by Mr. Fox, as follows: SEc. 9. The General Assembly may provide by law, that all persons, without, distinction of sex, may vote on all propositions to create any indebtedness, or to levy a tax on such property, and upon all questions relating to the granting of licenses to sell spirituous or malt liquors. Mr. MEDILL. I would ask if "all persons" will not embrace everybody, ir respective of age, sex, condition, sane, insane, native, alien, naturalized, and every thing in human shape? ["Yes I" "Yes!"] The y eas and nays were ordered. The Secretary proceeded to call the roll. Mr. TINC/ER (when his name was called) said: Mr. President: I would like to divide my vote. I would like to vote for the amendment of the gentleman from Schuyler [Mr. Fox], and against the other proposition. On the whole, I will vote "No-" The result was then announced-yeas, 26, nays, 36-as follows: NAYS. Goodhue, Boss, Haines of Cook, Sedg wick, Hankins, Sherrill, Hay, Springer, Hildrup, Sutherland, McCoy, Tincher, Medill, Tubbs, Merriam, Underwood, Parker, Vandeventer, Parks, Wendling, Peirce, Wheaton, Poage, Whiting-36 ACBSENT OR NOT VOTING, Allen of Crfd. Coolbaugh, Robinson, Anthony, Cummings, Snyder, Atkins, Emmerson, Skinner, Billings, Haines of LakeTruesdale, Bromwell, Hart, Turner, Brown, Hayes, Wright, Browning, McDowell, Mr. President-23. Bryan, Pillsbury, So the amendment offered by Mr. Fox was not agreed to. Mr. SEDGWICK. Mr. President. I now move the adoption of the substitute, CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION SATURDAY7 1306 K14,,g, C.yl Moore, Neec,e, Parke,i, Parks, Perie, Peirce, Poage, Rice, Slierrill, SpriDger, Tincher, Tubbs, 'Vandeventer, Wal,,ner, Wall, Washburin, Wilson- 38. ABSENT, OR NOT VOTING. Y]CAS. Fox, Gauable, Hanna, Harwood, Kinz. M o ie, Neece, Perley, Rice, Abbott, Allen, of Alex Anderson, Archer, Bowman, Cody, Dement,, Ellis, Forman, Scholfi,elcl, Sharp, Wagn6r, wait, Wall, Washburn, Wells, Wilson-W. Bayne, Benjamin, Buxton, Cameron, Cary, Church, Craig, Cross, EldredZe, English, Fuller, Goodell, -Y.EA-B. -English, Sedgwick, Goodell, Sutherland, lialnes ofCookUnderwood, I Hinkins, Wells, Wendling, . P, Wheaton, Medill, Whiting-23. Ivierriam, ,Benjamin, ;Buxton, Cameron. Car'' Y, Chr4, Craig" 'Cross, ,-Er, ldredge, NAYS. Abbott, Goodhue, Allen, ofalex. Hanna, Anderson, Harwood, Ross, Scholfield, Sharp, APRIL 16, 1870. DBATS A1) i07 Mr. CAMERON. Mr. President: I rise to a question of order. The section offered by the gentleman from DeKalb [Mr. Sedgwick] was adopted, and subsequently a motion was made to reconsider the vote by which it was adopted. That motion was agreed to. Several amendments and substitutes were offered and voted down, which leaves the original proposition before the Convention. It has not been disposed of, and I submit that the motion of the gentleman from Clinton [Mr. Buxton] is not in order, and cannot be entertained at this time. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The Chair understands the reconsideration is entirely exhausted. The section, as the Chair understands, was reconsidered for the purpose of offering the substitute, and the subtitutes and amendments offered are all disposed of, which disposes of the section. Mr. BUXTON. The section was stricken out. ORDER OF BUSILNESTS. Mr. DEMENT. Mr. President: I rise to a question of order. When the Convention adopted the motion to reconsider, the section was then before the Conventioi. I desire a vote upon the section which has not had been had. Mr. CAMERON. Mr. President: I-insist upon the question of order raised. A motion was offered to reconsider the vote by which the section was adopted. We have had under consideration various amendments to that section, and some substitutes. These we have rejected, but we have not disposed of the original section, adopted upon yesterday. The adoption of the section made it a part of the article. I hold that when a motion to reconsider has been carried, we may not only amend or substitute, but strike out the article, and upon that I move the previous question. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The section as adopted was, upon the motion of the gentleman from JoDaviess [Mr. Cary] reconsidered upon yesterday. Sev eral amendments and substitutes were subsequently offered, and they have now all been disposed of by the Convention. The Chair would inquire of the gentleman from JoDaviess [Mr. Cary] what was the nature of the motion made by him. Mr. CARY. Mr. President: I moved a reconsideration of the vote by which the section offered by the gentleman from DeKalb [Mr. Sedgwick], was adopted That motion was carried. Then there were several amendments and substitutes offered which were voted down, which leaves the section undisposed of, as I understand it. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. If that, is the case, the motion of the gentleman,from Cook [Mr. Cameron] is in order. Mr. CHURCH. Mr. President: Immediately upon the reconsideration of the question of the adoption of the section, the question of the adoption was again in order. Amendments and substitutes were offered which were not concurred in. The question now is upon the adoption of the section. Mr. HAINES, of Cook. Mr. President: I move the section be adopted. Mr. BUXTON. Mr. President: I move to lay the section on the table. - The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The sec tion was adopted yester day, a nd thereu po n it was afterwards moved tf reconsider the section. That brought the section before the Convention for consideration for all purposes. Then, a substitute with an amendment was proposed and lost. The question all along has been upon the adoption of the section, and is so still. Mr. DEMENT. Mr. President: I would ask whether my point of order was well taken or not? The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The Chair sustains the point of order made by the gentleman from Lee [Mr. Dement]. RIGHT OF SUFFRAGE. Mr. HAINES, of Cook. Mr. President: I move that the section be adopted. Mr. WA LL. Mr. President: I move to lay the section on the table, and I call for the yeas and nays on the question. Mr. WELLS. Mr. President: That motion was made by the gentleman from Cook [Mr. Cameron]. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. If the gentleman from Cook [Air. Cameron] had made the motion, it would have been in order. The question is upon laying the original section on the table. Mr. SEDGWICK Mr. President: I would like to hear the section read. The Secretary read the original additional section, offered by Mr. Sedgwick, as follows: SEC. -. Every person of sound mind and having the qualifications as to age and residence provided for in the first section of this article. who is a resident of any election district in this State, shall be entitled to vote upon any proposition to raise money by taxation for any purpose whatever, when such person has property that will be subjected to taxation if such proposition be adopted. The question being on the motion of Mr. Wall, to lay the original additional section, offered by Mr. Sedgwick, on the table, the yeas and nays were ordered, and, being taken, resulted-yeas, 37, nays, 21-as follows: e ePa S. Abbott, Gamble, Allen of Alex.,Goodhue, Anderson, Hanna Are,her, Harwood, Benjamin, Hildrup, Bowman, Moore, Buxton, Neece, Cameron, Parker, Dement, Parks, Ellis, Perley, Forman, Poage, Fox, Rice, Fuller, ABSENT, OR NOT rOTING. Allen of Crwfd,Coolbaugh, PoaLe. Anthony, Cummings, Robinson, Atkius, Emmerson, Snyder, Billings, Haines of Lake,Skinner Bromwell, Hayes, Truesdale, Brown, Hart, Turner, Browning, McDowell, Wright Bryan, Pillsbury, Mr. President-24. So the substitute. offered by Mr. Sedgwick was not agreed to. FEMALE SUFFRAGE. Mr. BUXTON. Mr. President: I wish to submit a resolution for adoption, submitting the question of woman suf frage to a separate vote of the people. I presume there is no one in this Convention who does not consider that the voters of this State are cormuetent to decide whether they want woman suffrage or not, and I hope they will be permitted to have a fair vote on the question. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. Does the gentleman submit the proposition as a part of this article? Mr. BUXTON. Yes, sir. ABSENT, OR NOT VOTING. Allen of Cr'fd.,Cody, Pillsbury, X Anthony, Coolbaagh, Robinson, Atkins, Cummings, Snyder, Bayne, Emmerson, Skinner, Billings, Haines of LakeSpringer, Bromwell, Hart, Truesdale, Brown, Hayes, Turner, Browning, King, Wright, Bryan, McDowell, Mr. President-27 So the motion of Mr. Wall to lay on the table the original additional section offered by Mr. Sedgwick was agreed to. FEI3ALE SUFFRAGE. Mr. BUXTON. Mr. President: I now offer the resolution I sent up. A I)EBATES ANI) PROCEEDINGS. 1301 AP.UIL 16) 1870. and upon that move the previous question. The motion for the previous question was agreed to, and the main question ordered. The question beidg upon the adoption of the substitute offered by Mr. Sedgwick The yeas and nays were ordered. The Secretary proceeded to call the roll. Mr. BAYNE (when his name was called) said: I desire to explain my vote. I shall vote "No," from the fact that a property qualification is required. My wife holds no property in her own name, whilst other women in my neighborhood, perhaps own a dog, which, we have said, shall be taxed, and I am not WilliDg that the woman who owns a dog should have the privilege of the elective franchise, [laughter] while my wife and other women in my neighborhood would be debarred from the polls. Therefore, I vote "No." Mr. GOODI-IUE. I would like to ask' the gentleman a question. ["OI)ject!" "Object!"] Mr. WELLS. I ask for a call of the ab sedtees. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. That imposes a great deat of labor o-n the Secretary, and it is not necessary at present. The result was then announced-yeas, 25; nays, 36-as follows: YEAS.. Haines of CookPeirce, Hankins, Ross, .Flay, Sedgwick, Hildrup, Sutherland, King, TLibbs, McCoy, Wagner, Medill, Wheaton, Merriam, Whiting-25. Buxton, Cary, Church, Craig, Cross, Eldredge, English, Fuller, Goodell, NA.YS. Abbott, Fox, Allen of Alex.,Gamble, Anderson, Goodhue, Archer, Hanna, Bayne, Harwood, Benjamin, Moore, Bowman, Neece, Cameron, Parker, Cody, I,?ars, Dement, Perley, Ellis, Rice, Forman, Scholfield, Sharp, Sherrill, Springer, Tincher' Underwood, Vandeventer, Wait, Wall; Washburn, Wells, Wendling, Wilson,-36. Beholfield, Sharp, Sherrill, Sutherland, Tincher, Und.erwood, Vandeventer, Wall, Washburn, Wells, Wendling, Wilson-37. NAY$. Haines of CookRoss, Hankini3, Sedgwick, Hay, Tubbs, McCoy, Wagner, Medill, wait, Merriam, Wheaton, Peirce, Whiting21. Cary, Church, Craig, Cross, F,Idredge, P, zlish. ,ondell,' COSTITUTIOAX OOYTIOX SATURDAY, to become a permanent section in the article on suffrage. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore (Mr. Dement in the chair). The present occupant of the chair will decide that that proposition is out of order. Mr. BUXTON. Then I ask its adoption as a part of the article. The Committee on Revision can place it where thev please. nir. WELLS. I move that the proposed section be referred to the Commit tee on Suffrage. Mr. BUXTON. Then I insist upon the proposition as it stands. The Committee on Revision can properly dispose of it in the shape in which it should be. Mr. UNDERWOOD. Mr. President: The language of the proposition may not be in the best shape; but it is sufficient to test the sense of the Convention, and it is to be hoped, will enable us to get rid, finally, of this matter. I am quite confident, sir — Mr. WELLS. I rise to a point of order. Mr. UNDERWOOD. The question is upon the adoption of the article. Mr. WELLS. I beg the gentleman's pardon. The question is upon the motion to refer to the committee, and is not de batable. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The Chair did not understand that there was a second to that motion. Mr HAINES, of Cook. I second the motion. Mr. TINCHER. I do not wish to discuss the question. It is for the purpose of defeating the measure, and I hope it will not be referred. The question being upon the motion of Mr. Wells, to refer the resolution offered by Mr. Buxton to the Committee on the Right of Suffrage, A division was ordered. The Convention divided, when, there being seventeen in the affirmative and fifty in the negative, the motion was not agreed to. Mr. UNDERWOOD. Mr. President: I suppose every member of the Convention is anxious to dispose of this mat ter. Like Banquo's ghost, it will still trouble us; and while individually, I am not disposed to vote for woman suffrage at the polls, there are other persons of liberal aAd generous sentiments who are quite Sanxious that this should be submitted as an independent proposition; and, therefore, to save further discussion and the u time of the Convention, I shall vote that it shall be so submitted. A short time ago, I condensed in writing a statement of the present legal rights of women in Illinois, and will simply read (which I very seldom do) this statement as a part of my speech. I do not think it will occupy five minutes. Before marriage, females have in all respects the same rights as males to acquire property, by descent, gift or purchase, and to dispose of the same, and they have the same legal remedies for all injuries to person or property. Females are of age for most purposes at eighteen, and males at twenty-one years. 18 Ill., R. 209. A woman may be postmistress, executrix, administratrix, guardian, trustee or agent. Women are allowed to marry earlier than males. And when married all the property a woman owrn at the time, or The Secretary read the resolution offered by lIr. Buxton, as follows: Resolved, That the question of woman suffrage shall be submitted to a separate vote, at the time of the submission of the Constitution, in such manner as may be provided in the schedule, and if, upon a canvass of the votes cast on the question, a majority thereof shall b e f ound "For woman suffrage," th en the word " m ale" shall be stricken out of section one of the suffrage article; otherwise not. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. Does the gentleman intend this as a resolution for the action of the Convention, or as part of this article? Mr. BUXTON. Mr. President: It is a resolution, and if adopted the Committee on the Schedule will prepare their report in accordance with it. The PRESIDENT, pro tempor-e. Unless it is intended as a part of this article, it is out of order. Mr. TINCHER. Mr. President: I move to strike out the word "resolved." That will leave it in the proper shape, I believe. Mr. BUXTON. Mr. President: I accept the amendment. Mr. WALL. Mr. President: I believe that this matter has been disposed of in various ways several times by the Convention, and I move to lay the proposition upon the table. The yeas and nays were ordered, and, being taken, resulted —yeas, 23; nays, 38 -as follows: NAYS. Anderson, Gamble, Ross, Bayne, Goodell, Sherrill, Benjamin, Goodhue, Springer, Buxton, Haines of Cook,Suth erland, Cary, Hildrup, Tincher, Church, King, Tubbs, Cody, McCoy, Underwood, Craig, Medill, Vandeventer, Cross, Merriam, Wagner, Eldredge, Parker Washburn, English, Parks, Wheaton. Forman, Peirce, Whiting —38. Fuller, Poage, ABSENT, OR NOT VOTING. Allen, of Cr'fd,Coolbaugh, Robinson, Anthony, Cummings, Sedgwick, Atkins, Emmerson, Snyder,' MBillinggs, Haines of Lake, Skinner, Bromwell, Hart, Truesdale, Brown, Hayes, Turner, Browning, McDowell, Wright, Bryan, Pillsbury, Mr. President-24. CONSTITUTIONAI, CON'TNTION SKTURDAY 1308 which she acquires afterwards from any person other than -er husband, by descent, deviselor otherwise, together with refits, issues, increase and profits thereof, is, durii)g marriage, her sole and separate property, un,-Ier her sole control, the same as though she was unmarried; not subject to her husband's control, and exempt from execution or attachment for his debts. L. of 1861, p. 143. Where she renders service to others she is entitled to her earnings, and to sue for and recover the same free from the inter. ference of her husband and his credi tors. E. of 1869, p 255. If her husband abandons her without her fault, or neglects to provide for her the necessities of life suitable to their co-ndition, she may sue him in chancery, and compel him to support her. Laws of 1867, p. 132. She is under no legal obligation to support her husband under our pauper law, no matter how much property she may have in her own right. Her husband, however, is bound to support her during marriage, and is liable for her debts contracted before marriaoe. 46 111. -Rep. 370. He is also liable to suits for her torts before marriage, and for her slander of other persons after marriage. 44 1-11. Rep. 43. A married woman may sell her personal property for her own use (40 Ill. Rep. 399), a-ad mav employ her husband as an agent to manage her property and dispose of it. 37 111. Rep. 198. And she may sue her husband or others for inju. ries to or for d epriViDg her of her prop. erty, and statutes of limitation do not bar her. 32 -Tll. Rep. 393. Promissory notes made by her for land purchased,or as security for her husban(i are void. 22 111. 573 Chicago Legal News, Vol. 2, p. 44 Her husband cannot convey her dower in his land, nor can she alone convey her land or his courtesy in her lands. Nor can the Legislature, after marri , age, by law deprive either of them of those rights. 35 111. Rep. 362; 38'11,1 Rep. 247i The wife may dis ose of her separate property by will and there is no provision for the husband's renouncing. Where the husband makes a will not satisfactory to the wife., she may renOUDce holding under it. Where he leaves a descendant and YE.&S. Abbott, Hankins, Allen o.f Alex., Hanna,Archer, - Harwood, Bowman, Hay, Cameron, Moore, Dement, Neeee, Ellis, Perley, Fox, Rice, Selholfield, S,Itarp, Wait, Wall, wells, Wendling, Wilson-23, So the motion of Mr. Wall to lay upon the table the I proposition offered by Mr. Buxton was not agreed to. Mr''BUXTON. It is not the design that this should be adopted as a section of the article, but adopted as an instruction to the. Committee on Schedule, to preparetbe schedule i a such manner,as to submit the question to a vote of I the peopl-, whether the word 11 male " shall, be stricken out of the flrst section of the article. I therefore think that the origi,nal proposition was proper, as a resolut'lon of instruction to the Committee on Sch6dule; and as it is-in connection with the suffrage article, it is proper to act upon it at this time. I therefore move it-sadoption as an instruction to the Committee on Schedule, and not_as a section DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. ion will arise by placing the one in the position for which the other is best adapted. The highest harmony, pros perity and progress can only be promoted by each, in its proper sphere, fulfilling its appropriate duties. Surely the happy econdition of our wives and daughters will warrant them in trusting their fath ers, brothers, husbands and sons in guard ing their rights and happiness, and re lieving them of the duties and burdens of voting and holding political offices. Such are my firm convictions, and yet I am disposed to waive my private opinion and vote to submit the question of female suffrage to the voters of the State, that this much mooted subject may be settled in that way which will be the most satisfactory to all concerned. MR. TINCHER Mr. President: I move the previous question on the adoption of the section. I have denied myself the pleasure of making a speech, and believe we have had enough speech-making on th is subject. The motion for the previous question was agreed to and the main question ordered. Mr. VANDEVENTER. Mr. President: Is it proposed to make that a part of the Constitution? Mr. BUXTON. The Committee upon Revision and Adjustment can put it in the proper place. Mr. VANDEVENTER. I simply want to know whether it is to go into the Constitution. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. As the question now stands, if the yeas are in the majority, it will form a section of the article upon the right of suffrage. Mr. BUXTON. I understand the Committee upon Revision and Adjustment can put it in the schedule. The question being on the additional section proposed by Mr. Buxton; the yeas and nays were ordered, and being taken, resulted-yeas, 40; nays 21-as follows: tution, in such manner as may be provided in the schedule, and if upon a canvass of the votes cast on the question, a majority thereof shall be found "For woman suffrage," then the Word "male" shall be stricken out of section one of the suffrage article; otherwise, not. Mr. DEMENT. Mr. President: That closes the consideration of the article on suffrage. I move that it be now referred to the Committee on Revision and Adjustment. The motion was agreed to. FUTURE AMENDMENTS. Mr. ARCHER. Mr. President: I move that the report of the Committee on Future Amendments be taken from the table, referred to the Committee of the Whole, and made the special order at two o'clock this afternoon. The motion was agreed to. ADJOURlMElT. ;Mr. KING. Mr. President: I move that the Convention do now adjourn. The motion was agreed to. So the Convention (at twelve o'clock M.) adjourned. She has the same right to administer on he r husband's estate that he has on her personal prop er ty a fter death, and to be appointed gu ardi an for their surviving children. In case of divorce sh e i s en titled to alimony, where it is not for her fault, and to henv the custody of the children where the husband is an improper per son, an d where it is better for the inter ests of such children. Wome n a re not r equired to pay a poll tax, do military dutyr, work rveon roads, or serve on juries. In no State are women more highly fa vored a nd pr otected than in Illinois; but it is said that they ought to be allowed to vote and hold office. Suffrageand holding office are labori ous and r e sp onsible duties, as well as priv i leges, for the benefit of others as well as for the parties exercising those trusts. The rea so n why suffrage is conferred upon all men of sound mind over twenty-one years of age, who have not disqualified themselves by crime, and who have resi ded i n the State and district a certain length of time, are beca u s e they generall y have the necessary age and information to give a judicious vote about matters which;! concern them, their property and their families, and becaus e they are interested in making and enforcing laws to secure the enjoyment of natural rights and civil privileges. It will hardly be questioned that men are, generally, and always will be better qualified to judge of the character and qualifications of candidates for office, of their duties, and of the laws necessary to restrain and govern men, who are usually the law-breakers as well as the law-mak ers. From their indiscriminate associa tion with all kinds of men, and their personal observation, they have better means of information than women of what is necessary and proper. Some wo men are better qualified than many men for such duties. but such are only excep tions to a general rule. Laws resort to compulsion for their en forcement, and women are poorly qualified to govern by such means. Their greatest power is by moral and religious influence to restrain and control men. They are most efficient when they appeal to our better nature-to our sentiments —and not to brute force. We neither love nor respect a cold-blooded woman-immersed in the intrigues of partisanship, which would absorb too many of them if invited into the politicalarena. Their domestic cares and their present field of action is broad enough and large enough to engage their whole time an~d attention, and we cannot afford to spare them fronm its sacred and solemn duties. They leave their first, most vivid and lasting impressions on the minds and hearts of all, and can elevate or ruin our race. They implant virtues, noble and God-like principles, or can poison the soul with a consuming fire of ambition. Their influence, like that of Divine Providence, is no less potent because it is silent and irresistible. And although they may not command our boisterous applause they elicit our profoundest love and affection, and induce us voluntarily, as vwe have done in Illinois, to redress, as far as possible, all their wrongs, and render to them justice under impartial and even generous laws. It is folly to fight against the laws of nature and of nature's God. The sexes are different, and only discord and conful. 328 AFI'ERNO O SESSION. SATURDAY, April 16, 1870. Th e Convention met at twro o'clock P. M, and was called to order by the Presi dent, pro tempore (Mr. Bromwell). FUTUi RE AMENDMENTS. Mr. ARCHER. Mr. President: I mo -.e that the Convention now resolve itself into Committee of the Whole to consider the report of the Committee on Future Amendments. The motion was agreed to. So the Convention, as in Committee of the Whole (Mr. Vandeventer in the chair), proceeded to consider the report from the Committee on Future Amend ments. The following is the majority report of the Committee on Future Amendments: SrCTIoN 1. Whenever the General Assem bly shall decide, by a vote of two-thirds of all the members elected to each of the two houses, that it is necessary to call a Conven tion to alter or amend this Constitution, thev shall enter the yeas and nays of that vote on their respective journals, and recommend to the electors of this State at the next election of members of the General Assembly to vote for or against a Convention; and if a maajority of all the electors voting at said election, shall vote "for a Convention,' the General Assembly shall at their next session, call a Convention to meet within three months after the election of the members. The General Assembly shall, in the act calling the Convention, designate the day and place of its meeting; fix the pay of its members and officers, and shall provide for the payment of the same together with the expenses necessarily incurrred by the Convention in the performance of its duties. The Convention shall consist of as many members as the house of representatives shall have, at the time of calling the Convention. They shall be chosen in the same manner, at the same places, by the same electors, and in the same districts, as members of the house of representatives shall be chosen; and vacancies in the Convention shall be filled as in the house of representatives. The members of the Convention shall have the same quallfications and privileges as members of the house of representatives. The duties of the Convention shall be to alter, revise or amend this Constitution. But no alteration, revision or amendment made by the Convention, shall take effect or be in force, until it shall have been submitted to the electors of this State, for adoption or rejection, at an election to be held in such manner as the Convention may prescribe, and shall have received a majority of all votes given at said election., ABSENT, OR NOT VOTING. Allen, of Crwd'Coolbaugh, Robinson, Anthony, Cummings, Sedgwick, Atkins, Emmerson, Snyder, Billings, Haines of LakeSkinner, Bromwell, Hart, Truesdale, Brown, Hayes, Turner, Browning, McDowell, Wright, Bryan, Pillsbury, Mr. President-24. So the additional article offerled by Mr. Buxton, relating to female suffrage, was agreed to. The article is as follows: SEc. -. That the question of woman suffrage shall be submitted to a separate vote at the time of the submission of the Consti APP.IL 16) 1870. 1309 YEA$. Abbott, Anderson, Archer, Bayne, Benjamin, Buxton, Cary, Church, Cody,' Craig, Cross, Eldredze. Englis,' Forman, Fox, Fuller, Gamble, Goodell, Goodhue, Hildrup, KiD —. med,y, Medill, - Merriam, Parker, Parks, Perley, Peirce, Poage, Ross, Sherrill Sutherl'and, Tincher, Tubbs, Underwood, Vandevente'r, ner, W.ghbu"n, Wheaton, Whiting-40. NAYS. Allen of Alxln,Hanna, Bowman, Harwood, Cameron, Hay, Detnent, Moore, Ellis, Neece, Haines of CookRice, Hankins, Scholfield, Sharp, Springer, Wait, Wall, Wells, Wendling,, Wilsonl. 1310 CO~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~STITUTIO~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~AL CO~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~YE~~~~~~~~TiON SATURDAY,~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ such election, in the hall of the house of rep. resentatives, and prepare such revision, alteration or amendments of the Constitution as shall be deemed necessary. Before proceeding, the members shall take an oath to support the Constitution of the United States, and of the State of Illinois, and to faithfully discharge their duties as members of the Convention. Provision for the pay of members and expenses of the Convention shall be made by the General Assembly in advance. The qualification of members shall be the same as that of members of the house of representatives, and vacancies occurring, shall be filled in the manner of filling vacancies in the General Assembly. The revision, alterations, or amendments as aforesaid, shall be submitted to the electors for their ratification or rejection, at an election appointed by the Convention for that purpose, not less than two, nor more than six months after their adjournment thereof, and unless so submitted, and approved by the electors, no such revision, alteration or amendment shall take effect. SEC. 2. Amendments to this Constitution may be proposed by the General Assembly, two-thirds of the members elected concurring therein, which vote shall be entered on the journals. Such proposed amendments shall be submitted to the electors at the next general election for their adoption or rejection, and if a majority voting at such election shall vos te for such- proposed amendments, the same shall become a part of this Constitution; but the General Assembly shall not have power to propose amendments to more than one article of the Constitution at the same session. Mr. WASIIBURN. Mr. Chairman: I move that the report be taken up and considered, section by section. The motion was agreed to. Mr. ARCHER. Mr. Chairman: As there are three reports from the Committee on Future Amendments-a majority report, and two minority reportsit is, perhaps, proper that I should, as chairman of the committee, call the attention of the Committee of the Whole to the points of differene between the reports, uponl the questions which have been referred by the Convention to the standing committee for their considera tion. Among the questions, and the most important ones that have been referred by the Convention to the committee, for their consideration, are the questions of the oath to be taken by members of fu. ture Conventions-the qualifications m which members of future Conventions shall have, and the mode of filling vacancies that may occur in the Convention by death, risignation or otherwise; also the jeeion insuh mnne asma beprecriedquestio)n of providing that all amuend- tecmite a oet ietvt by lw. nd f amajrit ofalltheele tor ents shall be submnitted to the peopleupnteeatce,adIhpitwl amenmentor aendmnts,the ame hall r their approval; also the question of d o becme prt f tisContittin: ut hethe Legislature providing foar the day M.WSIUN r himn GenralAssmbl sallnothavpoerto and place where future Conventionsdontpooeteneinoayag propse a amndmet oramedmens t shall meet, and fixingg the pay-of mem- metatotemrtoftepooe mor tanon arice f heContiutonatbers. These are the new questionsamnmns Iti,prasprprta amedmets o popoedby he eneal s-which have been introduced into these asaeetsol emd ftedfi semly,shll e pblshe insuh mnne a reports, and which do not appear in the elistecmitelbrdudri theGenralAssmbl my pescibe fo a article in the present Constitution re- cmn oayareet oa ope leat treemonhs efre he oteofte po-lating to future amen~dments. sn aoiyrpr.Te i ial The ollwingis lso mioritre- The majority report provides for thecoetanareetbuthtwsdn por, sbmtte b Mesrs iains f LkeGeneral Assembly fixing the day anduneacopoie and Springer:~ ~ ~ ~ place of the meeting of the Convention, Th difctywsuo thfomo S~cToN. Weneer to-tird ofthefixing theC pay of the members, and pre- ot ob ae ymmeso n u membrs f ech ranh oftheGenralAs-scribing their qualifications, which shall tr ovnin h usinldt semly hal, b a oteentredupo th be the same as the qualifications of vr ogdsuso nteerysaeo jounas terof,cocurtht aCovenio i members of the General Assembly, andthsCnnto,athopnn,adfo necssay t rvis. ater o amnd he on provides for the mode for filling vacan ta attemmeso h omte the~~~~~~ ~ ~ ~ elcosa h et eea lcin Ifes, in the same manner as provided forthuhthsqatoouhtobsete a mjorty otng t te eecion voe frL fillingg vacancies happening in the Gen- b naedett h osiuin Convntin,the eneal ssemly hal, a eral Assembly. =4n othier respects, the ma-Thrwaamaoiyoth comte thenex sesin, rovde ora Cnvetio t jority report- does not vary from eitherthuh thsCnetoouhtostl consst o suh nuber f mmberasthe one of the minority reports.thqusinbuwhnicaetage eleced n th sae maner at he ame la- Oneseof thclminority reports is signed by,} pntefr fot orcmedt ces an inthesam ditrits.Sai Co~e* I b~elieve, the gentleman from Cook [Mr. teCneto h omte ol o tion~~~~~~ ~ ~ ~ shlHetwti hremnh fe ailers] and the gentleman froms Madison age,adayaemttprsrbth SEC.e2. Any amendments to this Constitution may be propo s ed in ei ther h ouse of the General Assembly, and if the same shall be voted for by two-thirds of all the members elected to tie of the two houses, such proposed allnmeents, together with the yeas andnays of each house thereon, shall be entered in full on their respective journals, and said amendments shall be submitted to the electors of this State for adoption or rejection at t he next election of member s of the General Assembly, in such manner as may be prescribed by law. The proposed amendments shall be published in full for at least three months preceding the election, and if a majority of the electors Voting at said election shall vote for the proposed amendments, they shall become a part ofthis Constit,,,tion. But the General Assembly shall havre no power to propose amendments to more than one article of this Constitution at the same, session, nor to the same article oftbener than once in four years. The following, is a minority report sub mitted by Messrs. Archer and Br,)wn: SiEoC.-. Whenever two-thirds of all the members elected to each branch of the General Assembly,shall think it necessary to call a Convention to alter or amend this Constitution, they shall recommend to the electors at the next election of members to the G;eneral Assembly, to vote for or against such Convention * and if it shall appear that a m~ajority of all the electors of this State voting at said election have voted for such Convention, the General Assembly shall, at their next session, call a Convention for the purpose aforesaid, to consist of as many members as the house of representatives shall have at the timne of making said call, to be chosen in the same manner, at the same places, and by the same electors, in the same districts that choose the members of the house of representatives, and which Convention,hall meet within three months after said ele~ction, for the -purpose of rev ising, altering or amendin- this-Co-nstitution,; and all alterations and amendments made by said Convention shall be submitted to the people for adoption or rejection in such manner as the Convention may prescribe. SEC. -. Said Convention, when assembled, shall have power to prescribe such oath to be taken by its members as by a majority thereof may be deemed proper, and shall have power t-o fill all vacancies that may happen in the same by death, resignation, or otherwise, in such manner as the Conv'ention may direct. SEC. -. Any amendment, or amendments, to this Constitution, may be proposed in either branch of the General Assembly, and if -the same shall be agreed to byr two-thirds of All the m-embers in each of the two houses, osuch amendment or amendments shall be entered on their journals respectively, with the yeas and nays thereon, and the same shall be submitted to the people at the next general election thereafter, for their adoption or re [SMcr. Springer]s That report concurs with the majority report in these other matters, but provides also that the members of the Convention shall take an oath to support the Constitution of the United States, the Constitution of this State, and to, faithfully discharge their duties as members of the Convention. There is another minority report which is signed by the gentleman from Massac [Mr. Brown] and myself. Upon the questions referred to, as distinguishing the other reports, it simply says: Said Convention, when assembled, shall have power to prescribe such oath to be taken by its members as by a majority thereof may be deemed proper, and shall have power to fill all vacancies that may happen in the same by death, resignation, or otherwise, in such mann~er as the Convention may direct. Now, Mr. C hairman, these are the points upon which these respective reports differ; and without proposing to go into any debate or discussion upon these matters of difference, I only wish to say that upon all these questions of the oath to be taken by members of future Conventions, the qualifications they shall heave, and the mode of filling vacanlcies,. lengthened, protracted and X,xhaustive-diSCUSSioD, has been already had before the Convention. At the openin~g of the Convention, upon the very first day, the question of the oath and qualifications was one of the first questions that sprung up for debate in the Convention. The discussion was continued for several days, and ill that discussion I think -nearly every member of this body participated fully, upon the questions of the oath or qualification. The question as to the mode of filling vacancies came up in the Convention, as will be recollected by all, in ordering elections to fill the vacancies by the death of the member from Kankakee county [i'r. Pf-tterson], the resignation of the gentleman from Fayette [Mr. Henry], and the death of the member fromn Warren [Mr. Kirkpatrick]. I think the senase of this Convention has been fully tested upon this question, and as chairman of the committee, I shall not present my views, or offer any argu ment ill support of the minority report, which I signed, uneless I shall feel called upon to do so by the debate which may spring up. I think, from what has trans pired, that the Convention, as well as I t t t r8 i t t i t t t i i CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION SA.TUI?.DAY, 1310 API 16 80 EAE - RCEIG.11 form of the oath would have precluded an agreement, so that a majority report could not have be en m ade at all. But there were some questions that have been before this Convention upon which a majority of the committee did agree. They agreed upon the qualifications of members and the manner of filling vacancies. They also agreed that the Legislature that called a future Convention should prescribe the time and place of the meeting of the Convention, fix the pay of their members and officers, and provide for all the necessary expenses of the Convention. These things were agreed upon by a majority of the committee, but dissented from by a minority. I will not undertake to argue the point as to whether these suggestions in the majority report are either good or bad. The experience of this session will assure gentlemen upon that question quite as well as I could if I should talk an hour. If the Convention should think it necessary that the Constitution should prescribe a form of oath, the members can take such action as they choose. There is in the minority report a provision -that the members do take an oath to support the Constitution of the United States and this State, and to faithfully discharge their duties as members of the Convention. But that question was agued fully at the opening of this Convention. The majority of the committee conceded that it was not very wise to attempt to prescribe an oath. And even if they were to prescribe an oath it would be impossible to agree upon the form of that oath. I therefore move that the first section of the majority report be adopted by this committee. Mr. SPRINGER. Mr. Chiirman: I have but little to say on this question, and should have nothing at all to say if the gentleman from Lalke [MIr. Haines] were here, as his name precedes mine in the report. It was our intention, if possible, to avoid some of the evils which distinguiished the Convention at its organization. I think we consumed a week in endeavoring to determine what sort of an oath we should take. It was our design that such dispute should be precluded, so that future Conventions might be saved the annoyance which attended the opening of this body. It is not necessary to en ter upon an argument showing the necessity of an oath; that has al. ready been shown, by the debates and delays mentioned. The first section of the minority report is substantially the same as the corresponding one in the existing Constitution, with, however, four additions. We provide, in this report, that the qualifications of members of the Convention shall be the same as of the members of the house oft representatives} and that vacan, ~cies shall be filled in the same manner ,as vacancies in the house of representg — tives. Anld then, that any amendment to which the Convenltion may agree, shall be submitted to and ratified by the electors, before it shall b~ecome a part of the organic law of the State. In the three items last mentioned, I believe the majority and this minority report concur. This minority report con~:ain~s, in addition} a form of oath to be taken by the Octobers before entering upon their duties, which is briefer than the other, and to my mind, is ex pressed in a plainer form. The second section of the minority re port is substantially that of the new Constitution, leaving off that provision which requires three or four years time to make an amendment. We provide here that, when two thirds of the Gener al Assembly agree upon an amendment, they may submit it to the people at the next general election, and, if it is ratified, it shall become a part of the Constitution-thereby avoiding the delay and uncertainty which have always attended efforts to amend the present Constitution. I deem it unnecessary to make an argument to show the advantages of this minority report over the other two reports. It is briefer, and provides an oath which will remedy the evil we met at the organization of this Convention. It will thereby save time and expensetwo very important items. I move, as an amendment to the motion of the gentleman from Williamson [Mr. Washburn], that we strike out the first section of the majority report, and insert the first section of the minority re port offered by the gentleman from Lake [Mr. Haines] and myself. Mr. ARC EIER. Mr. Chairman: I offer as an amendment to the amendment of the gentleman from Madison [Mr. Springer], the first section of the minority report signed by the gentleman from Massac [Mr. Brown]and myself. That section is substantially the same found in the present Constitution, with very little change of phraseology-not altering at all the sense or meaning of the section of the present Constitution, with but one alteration or addition, providing that All alterations and amendments made by said Convention shall be submitted to the people tor adoption or rejection in such manner as the Convention may prescribe. In all other respects, it is the same provision as in the first section of the article relating to amendments in the present Constitution. Mr. BENJAMIN. Mr. Chairman: I shall support the amendment proposed by the gentleman from Madison [Mr. Springer] for this reason. It contains the following: Before proceeding, the members shall take an oath to support the Constitution of the United States, and of the State of Illinoise and to faithfully discharge their duties as members of this Convention. eNow, each one of these three reports contains a provision in substance that "all alterations and amendments made by said Convention, shall be sul)mitted to the people for adoption or rejection." I want some guarantee that this provision will be followed. I do not mean to argue the question-q to take up the time of the committee in discussing it; but it does seem to me that it is necessary that the members of the Convention should be bound in some solemn form to submit their work-the alterations and amendments that they may make-to the vote of the electors of the State. Otherwise, a Convention may assemble, assert, for itself, sovereign power, refuse to submit their work to the people, and declare a Constitution adopted-as suming what I should regard as revolutionary powers. I think that we are all agreed on one thing-that a Constitution of a State should always be'submitted to the people for adoption or rejection. All APRIL 161 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1311 that I desire, is some provision that will require the members of the Convention to follow this article of the proposed Constitution-will bind them by the sole n obligations of an oath to submit their work to the people, and the best way to secure such Qubmissio,,i -is to require the members, before proceedings to take the oath that they will make such submission; which oath, of course, they necessarily take when they solemnly swear to support the Constitution of the State, in force, and under which the Convention would act. Mr. PEIRCE. Mr. Chairman: Believing, as I do, that this subject was fully discussed at an early period of our sessiod, -and that every man's mind is made up upon every point involved in this report, I move that the debate do now close, and that we proceed to take a vote. Mr. TINCHER. Mr. Chairman: I would ask what the gentleman proposes to vote upon? Mr. PEIRCE. The question before the committee, of course. .,Mr. TINCHER. Mr. Chairman: Will the gentleman withdraw his motion a moment, to allow me to make a reference to the language of a portion of this proposed article e Mr. PEIRCE. I will yield a moment for the gentleman. Mr. TINCHER. Mr. Chairman: The section reads that the Convention shall meet in the "hall of the house of repre. sentatives." My impression is, that the language there should be changed, and "the State capitol" inserted instead of "the house of representatives;" for some. thing might occur that would, prevent the Convention beidg held in the hall of the house of representatives. Y-r. SPRINGER. Mr. Chairman: Al. low me to make a suggestion to the gen. tleman. In case of fire, or anything of that sort, I suppose that place would be the hall of the house of representatives, which should be designated as such by official authority. Mr. TINCHER. My.judgement iq, Air. Chairman, that it would be better to say that the Convention should meet at the State capitol. If the proposition is acquiesced in, I should like to see that ladguage changed. I Air. WASFIBURN. Mr. Chairman: I 1 OSI 1I-LC~ETO AUDY Brown] be substituted for the first section of the majority report. The Clerk read the first section of the minority report submitted by Messrs. Archer and Brown, as follows: SEC. -. Whenever two-thirds of all the members elected toeach branch of the General Assembly shall think it necessary to call a Convention, to alter or amend this Constitution, they shall recommend to the electors at the next election of members of the Gen eral Assembly, to vote for or against such Convention, and, if it shall appear that a majority of all the electors of this State, vot ing at said election, have voted for such Convention, the General Assembly shall, at their next session, call a Convention for the purpose aforesaid, to consist of as many members as the house of representatives shall have at the time of making said call, to be chosen in the same manner, at the same places, and by the same electors, in the same districts that choose the members of the house of repre sentatives, and which Convention shall meet within three months after said election, for the purpose of revising, altering or amending this Constitution; and all alterations and amendments made by said Convention, shall be submitted to the people for adoption or rejection, in such manner as the Convention may prescribe. The Clerk read the first section of the minority report, submitted by Messrs. Haines, of Lake, and Springer, as amended, as follows: SECTION 1. Whenever two-thirds of the members in each branch of the General Assembly shall by a vote entered upon the journals thereof, concur that a Convention is necessary to revise, alter or amend the Constitution, the question shall be submitted to the electorsat the next general election. If a majority voting at the election, vote for a Convention, the General Assembly shall at the next session provide for a Convention to consist of such number of members as then comprise the house of representatives, to be elected in the same manner, at the same places, and in the same districts. Said Convention shall meet within three months after such election, at the State Capitol, and prepare such revision, alteration or amendments of the Constitution as shall be deemed necessary. Before proceeding, the members shall t ake an oath to support the Constitution of the United States, and of the State of Illinois, and to faithfully discharge their duties as members of the Convention. Provision for pay of members and expenses of the Convention shall be made by the General Assembly in advance. The qualifications of members shall be the same as that of members of the house of representatives, and vacancies occurring shall be filled in the manner of filling vacanciesin the General Assembly. The revision, alterations, or amendments, as aforesaid, shall be submitted to the electors for their ratification or rejection at an election appointed by the Convention for that purpose, not less than two nor more than six months after their adjournment thereof, and unless so submitted, and approved by the electors, no such revision, alterations or amendments shall take effect. Mr. SPRINGER. There is an amendment to that. Mr. ARCHER. The amendment is not in order. pMr. TINCHER. I understand my amendment was adopted. The CHAIRMIAN. The Chair did not understand the gentleman from Madison [Mr. Sprisgger], as accepting it. The ques-. tion now is on the amendment of the gentleman from Pike [Mr. Archer.] The amendment was not agreed to. The CHAIRMAN. The question now is on the amendment of the gentleman from Madison [Mr. Springer] to the motion of the gentleman from Williamson [Mr. Washburn], that the first section of the report presented by the gentlemen from Lake and Madison [Mr. Haines of Lake, and Mr. Springer] be adopted in thae plae o thehe firs t section of the majority report. - Mr. WASHBURN. I would like to have e frs etin f the first section of the maj ority rep or t re a d. The Clerk read section one of the majority report, as follows: SECTION 1. Whenever the General Assem bly shall decide, by a vote of two-thirds of all the members elected to each of the two houses, that it is necessary to call a Conven tion to alter or amend this Constitution, they shall enter the yeas land nays of that vote on their respective journals, and recommend to the electors of this State, at the next election of members of the General Assembly, to vote for or against a Convention; and if a majority of all the electors voting at said election, shall vote "for a Convention," the General Assem bly shall, at their next session, call a Conven tion, to meet within three months after the election of the members. The General Assembly shall, in the act of calling the Convention, designate the day and place of its meeting; fix the pay of its mem bers and officers, and shall provide for the payment of the same, together with the ex penses necessarily ineurred by the Conven. tion in the performance of its duties. The Convention shall consist of as many members as the house of representatives shall have, at the time of calling the Convention. They shall be chosen in the same manner, at the same places, by the same electors, and in the same districts, as members of the house of representatives shall be chosen; and va cancies in the Convention shall be filled as in the house of representatives. The members of the Convention shall have the same quali fications and privileges as members of the house of representatives. The duties of the Convention shall be to alter, revise or amend this Constitution. But no alteration, revision or amendment made by the Convention, shall take effect or be in force until it shall have been submitted to the electors of this State, for adoption or rejec tion, at an election to be held in such manner as the Convention may prescribe, and shall have received a majority of all the votes given at said election. The amendment to the amendment was agreed to. The CHAIRMAN. The question now is upon the amendment of the gentleman from Williamson [Mr. Washburn] as amended by the gentleman from Madison [Mr. Springer]. Mr. HAINES, of Cook. Mr. Chairman: Does not the adoption of the amendment to the amendment dispose of the amendment offered by the gentleman from Williamson [Mr. Washburn]? Does not the amendment we have adopted take the place of that? Mr. SPRINGER. Mr. Chairman: I move that section two of the minority report, signed by the gentleman from Lake [Mr. Haines] and myself, be adopted. Mr. DEMENT. Mr. Chairman: The section, as amended, should be adopted before we take up another section. That was not, however, my purpose in rising. I wish to propose an amendment to the section that has been adopted as an amenldmenlt to the majority roteprt. The CHAIRHAN. The C~hair does not understand that an amendment is in order, until the section is adopted. Mr. UNDERWOOD. Mr. Chairman: I understand the adoption of the amend. ment of the gentleman from Madison [Mr. Springer] has the effect to strike out the firs; section of the majority report. Mr. BUXTON. Mr. Chairman:g I would ask that unanimous consent be giv en that amendments may be received, because if not they will be offered in Convention. I presume there can be no objection to it. 1312 CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION SATURDAY, tleman from McLean [Mr. Benjamin], and the reasons for requiring an oath, in order to compel the members of the Conveiation to submit their work to the people, I want to direct his attention to one fact, that is, whether the members shall take an oath or not, under this sec tion of the majority report-their work cannot possibly have any effect until they do submit it to the people, and if that argument is the only one, I submit it is of no force whatever. Mr. PEIRCE. I move that the debate now close, and we take a vote upon the pending question. Mr. TINCHER. I move to amend by inserting in the ninth and tenth lines of the minority report, 11 at the State capitol." Mr. SPRINGER. I accept the amendment. Mr. WELLS. If the amendment is in order, I would move a further amendment, as follows: Strike out in the eigth, ninth, tenth and eleventh lines of the rport of the gentlemen from Lake and from Madison rMr. Haines and Mr. Springer] the words:'IS-aid Conveition shall meet within three months after such election in the hall of the house of represen tatives, and propose such revision, alteration or amendments of the Constitution as shall be deemed necessary." Also strike out in the fourteenth and fifteenth lines the words: "Provision for pay of members, and expenses of the Convention shall be made by the General Assembly in advance," and insert in lieu thereof, the following: "The General Assembly shall, in the act calling the Convention designate the day and place of its meetiing; fix' the pay of it members and officers, and shall provide for the payment of the same, together with the expenses necessarily incurred by the Convention in the performance of its duties.'' The minority report provides that pro-, vision shall be made for paying the expenses of the Convention, by the General Assembly. It does not say the Legislature shall fix the pay. I believe the Legislature should fix the pay. It does not provide the time when the Convention shall meet, and I believe the Legislature should provide the time when the Convention shall meet. These provisions arIe made in the majority report, and in that respect, I believe the majority report is best. That obviates the objection which the gentleman from Vermilion [Mr. Tincher] has raised, and provides that the Legislature shall fix the time, which I think is wise. It also provides that the Legislature shall fix the time and place of meeting. Thus all questions about pay are fixed by the act of the Legislature, under the authority of the Constitution. Mr. ARCHER. Mr. Chairman: I rise to a point of order. I believe there is an amendment to an amendment now pending. The CHAIRMAN. There are two amendments now pending. Mr. ARCHER. Mr. Chairman.- I call for the readidg Of the first section of the majority report, and the flrst sections of the two minority reports offered as amendments, in the order in which they are offered. The motion of Mr. Pierce "that the debate now close," was agreed to. The CHAIRMAN. The first question is upon the motion ofthe gentleman from Pike [Alr. Archer), that the first section f t 0 APRIL 16, 1870. DiBATES AD PflOOEk'DIGS. 1313 I will modify my motion upon the sumgestion just made, that the future Converition shall consist of one hundred and two members-two for each senatorial distict. We can amend the section by doubling the number of senators to be elected in the senatorial districts. If we adopt a provision that it shall be not exceeding one hundred and two or one hundred and six, we can afterwards make it conform to senatorial districts. Mr. SPRINGER. Mr. Chairman: This first section has been adopted. Are the asrnendments in order? The CHAIRMAN. They are in order. It was adopted as a substitute for another section, and is stubject to amendment. cMr. UNDERWOOD Mr. Chairman; The legislative article provides that the apportionment for members Of the State senate shall be made by the General As sembly every ten years. Why not say two from each senatorial district, instead of a stated numb r? Mr. DE SENT. Very well; the great point was regarded by me without looki g to the minrutiae. We will make the details conform itf we adopt this amendment. Then we will make it conform just the same, so that it shall not exceed two for each senatorial district. That particular language, "Two for each senatorial district," would not do, because some districts, I understand, send three. Mr. SPRTINGER. Mr. Chairman: I oppose that amendment for this reason: The senatorial districts are not made with reference to popular representation. The senate is not a popular branch of the Legislature, and it is supposed that the people are not particularly represented in it. In order that the people may be fully and fairly represented, we providehere that the Convention shall consist of as many members as compose the house of representatives. By this provision, the people are represented, and I claim that the people cannot be too well represented in a Constitutional Convention. The smaller the districts, I apprehend, the safer would be the actioq of the Con:vention, and the more perfectly-would the wants of the people be met. For that reason I am in favor of a large body. They may move slowly, but they certainly move cautiously and act with wisdom. I hope the proposed amendment will be rejected. ["Question," "Question."] The CHAIRMAN. The question is whether the section' just adopted shall be amended so as to limit the number of Imembers in the Convention to one hundred and two. The amendment was not agreed to. Mr. GOODIIUE. Mr. Chairman: I desire to offer an amendment. I move to insert after the word "representatives," in the seventh line, the words "excluding the number elected upon fractions of a ratio." I will explain the object of the motion in just one word. I am in favor of a large Convention, as has been suggested by the gentleman from Madison [Mr. Springer]. Under this amendment, we certainly have one, in my judgment, sufficiently large, and there seems to be a disposition to have one not tootlarge. Now, the objection cannot be made to this amendment, that under it we shall not have the State districted in a proper manner. The number will precisely correspond with the number of districts, but DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. APIRIL'161 1870. 1313 The CflklRNlkN. The Chair will entertain amendments if there is no ol)jection. Mr. DE NIENT. Mr. Chairman: I wish to take the sense of the committee upon the question as to whether they insist that in case we should be so unfortunate as to have a Constitution adopted by the people that might in some few years in the future be required to be amended, add another Convention called, there shall be two hundred members in that Coia vention. I propose as an amendment that the number of the Convention shall -not exceed one hundred or one hundred and two' I'f the comniittee adopt this, they can c,.,)nform the rest of the article to it. It is useless to propose other amendments until we ascertain whether it be the wish of the committee to fix the number or not. Mr. SPRINGER. Mr. Chairman: Would it not be necessary to re-district the State? Mr. DENIEIT. Mr. Chairman: Perhaps it i-iiight; but that: would be au easy thidg for the Legi,lature to (lo. if it should be thought a matter of importance to fix or thus limit the number, then the State could be easily redistricted, and it would be no such difficult matter as to forbid the amendment. Mr. ROSS. Mr. Chairman: I would sug-est to the gentleman that we would have no districts in which to elect delegates to a Constitutional Convention. Air. DE.,'vlE-T. Mr. Chairman: That wo-old be easily remedied. It is easy enouo,h for the Convention to -compreheiid that we can make the article conform to the number that may be fixed upon, and the Legislature could make the distri3ts. Mr. ROSS. Mr. Chairman: I would ask whether it would not be suitable to make the numb(:r conform to the nullifier in the senate, and use the senatorial districts? Mr. DE NIENT. Mr. Chairman: While my own views call for a smaller number than that prc,)vided for the lower house by the new legislative article, I am also of opinion that the riucuber of the senate would be too small I am really in earnest'. -and wish to deal practically with this matter. 1 do not would not correspond with the number of representatives at a particular time in the lower house. The different counties might have what have been termed I'lloaters," and there would be no good reason, in my judgment, why, at a particular time, a Convention may be called, we should count, not simply those regularly elected in districts, but at the same Time count those that may be elected in those districts upon what is called the "floatidg systems" I do not think it will be best to count them; because it has been asserted again and aoain upon this floor, that, under that system, we may at different times in a period of some ten years, have two hundred and twenty members in the lower house. Now, is there any sort of necessity for as large a Convention as two hundred and twenty? It seems to me that there can be no good argument used in favor of as large a number as that; but if we have a r-uiiiber as large as the number of representative districts, we have a Convention nearly twice as large as this, and cer. tainly large enough for all practical purposes. Mr. SPRINGER. Mr. Chairman: I do not exactly understand the force of the amendment. I see the object of it, but I am not able to understand that it proposes anything better than the report provides. It is hardly probable that the General Assembly -Will reach two hu-' dred and twenty members. I think the largest number I have seen estimated is about two hundred, probably two hundred and three. The Convention of 1848, 1 think, had one hundred and sixty-five uaember& They did good work. They did it in a reasonable time. The only argument offered by the gentlemau from Will [Mr. Goodhue], in support of his amendments is, that under the report of the committee, a Convention may have too many members. That will depend, of course, upon the time when th,u Convention is called. If it is called immediately after an apportionment of the State, it wilt not have more than one hundred and fifty-thrce. The amendment proposes to exclude the number elected upon fractions of a ratio. It will be remembered thatmany of the counties will be re.pre. 329 131w COSTITUTJONAL COV]NTIO SATURDAY, to propose amendments to more than one article of the Constitution at the same session. It would be better to( say, "two-thirds of the members elected to each house." I think it is a little indefinite, as it is. If we can make it clear and right, the Leg islature and the people can amend the Constitution when necessary, without the delay and expense of a Convention. Mr. SPRINGER. I accept that amend ment. Mr. WASHBURN. Mr. Chairman: I am of opinion that a Constitutional Con vention will never be needed hereafter, and therefore I move to strike out section one of this report. Mr.,HAINES, of Cook. Can we move a reconsideration of a vote in Committee of the Whole? The CHAIRMAN. The Chair be lieves it can be done. Mr. HAINES, of Cook. Since we have adopted the ten minutes' rule, I be lieve it has been decided that we can move a reconsideration. I now move to reconsider the vote by which we have stricken out the last clause in the article under consideration. Mr. SPRINGER. I believe there is a matter before the Convention. We are on the second section. I did not understand what had been said by the gentleman from Cook [Mr. Haines]. Mr. HAINES, of Cook. To rec,nsider this portion of the section just stricken out. It seems to me this Committee of the Whole have hardly taken time to see the bearings this may have on the future of this State. As has been well said by the gentlemanl from Williamson [Mr. Washburn] since we have fixed it so that the Legislature may act as a Constitutional Convention, we shall hardly need anything bearing on that subject at all. The Legislature has patronage and power. They are elected at a time when there is a political excitement. They are not elected for any such purpose as making a new Constitution. They are elected to make laws under the Constitution. I think it dangerous to vest any body with the powers that the Legislature already has now, and with full powers to make a new Constitution of the State. It will keep the people of this State in a turmoil all the while. We have got enough of that now. This body, as cons titutod, has neither power nor p tronage, and sitting here we are acting, as we suppose, dispassionately, without preju dice. fear or favor; and for th Lt reason, I am ill favor of recossidering. The CHAIRMAN. The question is on the motion of the gentleman from Logan [Mr. Parks], to insert the words "to each house," after the word "elected," in the second line of the second section. The motion was agreed to. Mr. HAINES, of Cook. Was not my motion to reconsider entertained? Mr. FULLER. I desire to offer section two of the majority report as a substitute for section two of the minority report, first striking out the word'"for," in the ninth line, and all after the word "Constitution," in the twelfth line. The substance of this section is precisely the same as the other, except that it provides for the publication of the amendments proposed by the Legislature, and is more definite in prescribing how the vote shall be taken by the Legisla the expense and delay of a Convention. It is a question, in the minds of many, wh eth e r Conventions are best. After this C ons titution has been adopted, I think the provision of the second s ection will probably relieve us of the necessity of calling another Convention; and, if the Convention is called, the great iiiter ests of the State will demand, probably, fully two hundred or more members. The amendment offered by Mr. Good hue was not agreed to. The CHAIRMAN. The question be fore the committee is upon the adoption of the second section of the report sub mitted by the gentlemen from Lake and Madison [MIr. Haines, and Mr. Spring er.] The Clerk read section two, as fol lows: SEc. 2. Amendments to this Constitution may be proposed by the General Assembly, two-thirds of the members elected concurring therein, which vote shall be entered on the journals. Such proposed amendments shall be submitted to the electors at the next general election for their adoption or rejection, and if a majoritv voting at such election shall vote for such proposed amendments the same shall become a part of this Constitution; but the General Assembly shall not have power to propose amendments to more than one article of the ConstituLion at the same session. Mr. ROSS. Mr. Chairman: In view of contingencies that may unfortunately arise in the future, I desire to offer an amendment. It may happen that the people may reject our work in making a Constitution; and in the event of such an unfortunate contingency, it is of the highest importance that we get this report in the proper shape, so that the Constitution in the 4uture may be amended, without taking so much time as it has been necessary to take under the old Constitution. I am not prepared to say but what the Legislature map safely and with propriety propose amendments to the Constitution, to be passed upon by the people. And with that view, I desire to strike out all of section two, after the word "Constitution," in the sixth line. That will leave it in the hands of the Legislature to propose amendments to the people which they can vote upon, and can get them much earlier and cheaper than they can by calling a Constitutional Convention. The question being upon the amendmenlt offered by Mr. Ross, a division was ordered. The committee divided, when, there being twenty-three in the affirmative and sixteen in the negative, the amendmlent was agreed to. Mr. PARKS. Mr. Chairman: I agree with the gentleman from Fulton [Mr. Ross] that it is doubtful whether we ever have another Constitutional Convention; in this State. I think, therefore, this second section should be as nearly right as possible. I wish to suggest to my friend, the gentleman from Madison [Mr. Springer], whether? in the second line, it should not be a little more definite. This -section reads: SEC. 2. Amendments to this Constitution may be proposed by the General Assembly, two-thirds of the members elected concurring therein, which vote shall be entered on the journals. Such proposed amendments shall be submitted to the electors at the next genleral election for their adoption or rejection, and if a majority voting at such election shall vote for such proposed amendments, the same shall become a part of this Constitution;7 blut the General Assembly shall not have power ture. It requires a two-thirds majority in each house of the Ge neral Assembly, and provides that the propo se d am end ment shall be published in full, at least three months before it is submitted to the people. I strike out "for," in the ninth line, and also strike out all after "Constitu tion," in the twelfth line, so that more than one section may be amended at one time. The CHAIRMAN. The question is on the motion of the gentleman from Cook [Mr. Haines] to reconsider the motion by which a portion of section two was stricken out. Mr. BENJAMIN. Mr. Chairman: I trust that the motion to recons:ider will prevail. I readily see that nearly every Legislature would spend half its time in framing new Constitutions, with this clause stricken out. It would not be sur prising at all, if the Legislature formed a new Constitution every four or six years, to be submitted to the people of the State. The motion to reconsider was agreed to. The CHAIRMAN. The question now is upon the motion of the gentleman from Fulton [Mr. Rgss], to strike out the latter clause of section two, The motion was not agreed to. Mr. ROSS. Mr. Chairman: I would like to know what the state of the case is now. The CHAIRMAN. The committee re fuse to strike out. Mr. ROSS. M1r. Chairman: I now propose to offer another amendment. The CHAIRMAN. There is a substi tute pending for the section, the substi. tute of the gentleman from Stark [Mr. Fuller]. The Clerk read the substitute offered by Mr. Fuller, as follows: SEC. 2. Any amendments to this Consti tution may be proposed in either house of the General Assembly, and if the same shall be voted for by two-thihds of all the members elected to each of the two houses, such pro posed amendments, together with the yeas and nays of each house thereon, shall be en tered in full on their respective journals, and said amendments shall be submitted to the electors of this State, for adoption or rejec tion, at the next election of members of the General Assembly, in such manner as may be prescribed by law. The proposed amendments shall be publishcd in full, at least three months preceding the election, and if a majority of the electors voting at such election, shall vote lbr the proposed amendments, they shall become a part of this Constitution. But the General Assembly shall have no power to propose amendments to more than one article of this Constitution at the same session, nor to the same article oftener than once in four years. Mir. HAINE:S, of Cook. Mr. Chair. man: Does the gentleman propose to leave out the restrictions upon the Legis. lature? Mr. FULLER. Mr. Chairman: I struck it out because I supposed the committee had already stricken a similar clause out (of the other section. ["4No, "ino.77] Mr. HAINES, of Co. k. Mr. Chairmnan: Does the gentleman then propose that it shall be left out now?' No, Mir. Chairman; he proposes to put it back again. Mr. GEOODHUE. Mr. Chairman: I move that the committee do now risem ["No"]. I will withdraw the motion if such order can be maintained that we can go on with our business. # 'CONSTITUTIONAL CONYENTION SATURDAY, 1314 APRIL 16, 1870. DEBATES AND ROCEEDJNGS. 1315 ments, they become a part of the Constitution. Now, all these reports agree in providiDg that these amendments to be proposed by the General Assembly, when agreed to by two-thirds of both branches of the General Assembly, shall be at once submitted to the people at the next general election thereafter, and if adopted by the people, shall become a part of the Constitutiou. That, I think, is change enough. Now, while I think the mode provided by the present Constitution for bringing about amendments proposed by the Legislature, is too tardy, as experience has shown, I am not for running to the other extreme. I am rather for occupying me lium ground, and I think that is reached by this second section in all these reports. I am not in favor of throwing the door wide open and running to the other extr e me, by which constitutional provisions can be suddenly changed. I think the change already made by the committee in their report-all the reports agreeing upon that-is sufficient, and that it is not necessary that these amendments should be so often proposed or rapidly adopted. I think it is proper to restrict these legislative amendments to one article at a time, as provided in this section. Mr. PERLEY. Mr. Chairman: I would like to ask the gentleman it he has not been telling us all winter, two or three times a week, that this committee were going to make this matter of revision easy? Mr. ARCHER. I have said so; and they have made it much easier than we haveit now in the present Constitution. Mr. DEMENT. Mr. Chairman: Icannot concur with the gentleman from Pike [Mr. Archer]. I cannot for my part apprehend where there would be ally injustice, or inconvenience, or danger, in allowing the General Assembly to propose amendments to two articles, at the same session. The gentleman speaks of the greater rapidity with which amendments can be made under this section now under consideration, than they could be offered and passed under the present Constitution. I cannot see it. This provides that amendments shall not be presented oftener than once ill four years. It appears to me that that is reflection enough for the people and their representatives, to determine whether there might not be good reasons for proposing amendments, and as has been stated by the gentleman from Fulton [Mr. Ross], it might do away with the necessity of calling a Convention. I think it will be recollected by some gentlermen within my hearing, that, under the present Constitution, great difficulty has resulted in attempts to propose amendments. Such were supposed to be the defects of the present Constitution in several of the articles, that the persons whose attention was directed to abuses in the judiciary department o f the State, would not propose an amendment unless to that article. Others who viewed th e objections to the executive or the legislative articles as more serious, insisted that those were the articles that should be first amended-or one of those articles; and the consequence was the General Assembly could not unite a majority of twothirds in favor of any one amendment. But had they been permitted to have Mr. FULLER. Mr. Chai rman: I will put the clause in qu estion into the s ubsti - tute, if it i s the will of the committee, though I should not otherwise. Mr. SPRINGER. Mr. Chairman: The substitute offered does not express any more than the section of the minority re. port, which the gentleman from Stark [Mr. Fuller] moved to strike out. It amounts to the same thing. Everything contained in the substitute is contained in the second section. The substitute numbers fourteen lines, the second section eight lines. I think it would be better to vote down the substitute, as nothing is gained by it. Mr. CARY. Mr. Chairman: I call for the reading of the substitute. The Clerk read the substitute offered by Mr. Fuller, as follows: SEc. 2. Any amendments to this Constitution may be proposed in either house of the General Assembly, and if the same shall be voted for, by two-thirds of all the members elected to each of the two houses, such proposed amendments, together with the yeas and nays of each house thereon, shall be entered in full on their respective journals, and said amendments shall be submitted to the electors of this State for adoption or rejection, at the next election of members of the General Assembly, in such manner as may be prescribed by law. The proposed amendments shall be published in full for at least three months preceding the election, and if a majority of the electors voting at said election shall vote for the proposed amendments, they shall become a part of this Constitution. But the General Assembly shall have no power to propose amendments to more than one article of this Constitutioni at the same session, nor to the same article, oftener than once in four years. The CHAIRMIAN. The question is upon the substitute offered by the gentlemarn from Stark [Mr. Fuller.] A division was ordered. The committee dividcd, when, there being twenty in the affirmative and sixteen in the negative, the substitute was agreed to. Air. ROSS. Mr. Chairman: I move to strike ouit the words "one article" and insert in lieu thereof "two articles." Under the old Constitution we had great difficulty in getting amendments made; it took very long to accomplish anything. The Legislature was prohibited from proposing amendments to more than one article at a time. This report is the same in that respect. I propose to strike out all these restrictions. This was carried once, but has been reconlsidered, replaced. I propose to allow the Legislature to subunit to the people amendments to two articles at the samue session, and to avoid the expenses of a Convention. I doubt very mluch whether a Convention can perform this duty much? if anly better, than the Legislature. M~r: ARCHER. Mr. Chairman: I am opposed to the a mend ment offered by the gentlemwan f'rom Fultonl [Mr. Ross]. This second section in all three reports has already made a ver y great innovation upon the mode prescribed by the present Constitution of legislative amendments to be proposed to the people. The present Constitution provides that amendments which may be agreed upon by two thirds of both houses of the General Assembly shall be postponed fear two years,:'eferred to the next General Assembly, by that General Asscmbly submitted to the people, and if the people at the next general elections thereafter (a period of two years intervening)> shall ratify those amend submitted amendments to mo re than one article, say two, and, certainly, if to three at the same time, we would have been relieved of the privations t ha t we are suffering here to-day, and the country of the suspense and expense of this Con vention. Now, I do not feel so distrustful of the people, as to be afraid that, if the Gen eral Assembly should submit amendments to two articles at one session, and either of them, or both of them, should be objectionable, they would not have judg ment enough to reject one or both of them, as the necessity might require; and if such amendments as the people believe calculated to promote the interests of the country, they could adopt two of them with the same safety as they could one. I do really believe the interests of the country would be protected by at least permitting amendments to be submitted to two articles, at any one session where a majority of two-thirds of each house should be united upon the amendments to be submitted. Mr. PARKS. I wish to ask the Chair man if the restriction of four years was not stricken out? The CHAIRMAN. It was not. Mr. FULLER. I understood the substitute I offered was-carried. The CHAIRMAN. It was carried. Mr. FULLER. I wanted to put in this section just what was restored in the other section. That last clause was not in that, and as I understand it, the latter clause, relating to the four years, is not now in this. Mr. ARCHER. I will state to the gentleman from Stark [Mr. Fuller] that the restriction of four years is not in either of the minority reports. It is in the majority report. Mr. FULLER. I will state further that I struck out all after the word "Constitution," when I sent my substitute to the Clerk's desk. It was then said that the part of the section which prohibits the General Assembly from proposing amendments to more than one article at the same time, had been restored by the committee. I intended to have inserted again in this what had been put back into the other, but that part that prohibits the General Assembly from amending the same article more than once in four years, was never in that. If the Chairmnan decides that that latter clause is now in this section, I move to strike it out, if it be in order. The CHAIRMAN. The Clerk will read the substitute as passed. The Clerk read the substitute offered by Mr. Fuller, as follows:. SEC. 2. Any amendments to this Constitution mayr be proposed in either house of the General Assembly, and if the same shall be voted for, by two-thirds or all the members elected to each of the two houses, such proposed amendments, together with the yeas and nays of each house thereon, shall be entered in full on their respective journals, and said amendments shall be submitted to the electors of this State for adoption or rejection, at the next election of members of the General Assembly, in such manner as may be prescribed by law. The proposed amendments shall be published in full, at least three mouths preceding the election;* and if a majority of the electors voting at said election shall vote for the proposed amendments, theyr shall become a part of this Constitution. But the General Assembly shall have no power to propose amendments to more than one articlc of this Constitution at the same session, nor to the same article oftcrier than once in four years. APRIL 16, 18-70. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1315 f 1316 c'OSTJTUTIOAL COYETJO SATURDAY, the advantages fo)r all necessary changes, and I therefore hope that the amendment will be voted down and the section adopt ed. I must admit that I have some admiration for the views of the gentleman fi-omi Fulton [Mr. Ross.] It is not often that he gets wrong; but in this particular in stance, I am fully satisfied that he is not exactly orthodox. I hope his amendment will be voted down, -together with the mo)tion to strike out. Four years' time is at least short enough time for the people to reconsider a question that has been submitted to them. Give them four years, as proposed by this section. I will not detain the Convention by multiplying words. Mr. ROSS. Mr. Chairman: I think one of t'he great faults of our Constitution of 1848 was the assumption on the part of its makers, that wisdom would die with them and that nobody else should be permitted to disturb their labors, and interfere with what they had done. When any amendment is proposed here that looks to be salutary, in permitting the people to pass upon subjects in which they feel an interest, without any great trouble or expense, a "ring" comes up immediately in the minds of certain gent lemen here, and they are horrified at "rings." I suppose they have been around the Legislature long enough to know what influence these rings have upon members; but, for my part, I do not see any such dancer. Now, sir, while we have been waiting, and badly wanting a new Constitution for the State of Illinois for over twenty 5 ears, so much so that for the last ten or twelve years we have been constantly violating the existing Constitution, and indeed have been unable to run the State government for three months without violating it, there has not been a single amendment made to that Constitution, in the mode prescribed by the Constitution itself. The people have to pass upon these questions themselves. We not only have the security of the two branches of the Legislature, elected by the people, and responsible to the people for their action to pass upon a proposed amendment, not by an ordinary majority, but by twothirds in each branch of the legislative department, before they can submit that question to the people, but then the people themselves, not in a by-way or corner, but at a general election, when they are to come out and vote, with due and proper notice, are to pass upon these questions. Now, can there be any danger in a provision of this kind? I sub nmit to the candid, reflecting men of this Convention, if there can be any danger, and if there is that necessity for binding up, and looking with suspicion on every act the Legislature is'0 do. If we have had bad legislation in the past, I hope we will have better in the future. I look forward with hope in that direction. i believe if we had a Constitution with such a provision, we would have avoided all these difficulties for the last ten years; that proper amendments would have been submitted to and adopted by the people, and thus they would have saved the expense of this Constilutional Convention, as well as the great evils and demoralizing influences which have grown for years out of the existing Constitution. Any amendment or amendments to this Constitution may be proposed in either branch of the General Assembly, and if the same shall be agreed to by a majority of the members elected to each of the two houses, such proposed amendment or amendments shall, with the yeas and nays thereon, be entered ou their journals, and re ferred to the General Assembly to be chosen at the next general election; and if, in the General Assembly so next chosen, such proposed amendment or amendments shall be agreed to by a majority of all the members elected to each house, then it shall be the duty of the General Assembly to submit such amendment or amendments to the electors of the State; and ifa majority of said electors shall ratify the same,such amendment or amendments shall become a part of this Constitution. Itn that State it will be perceived that a bare ma,ljority only of the members elected to each house is required to submit, at any session, as many amendments as they please. That Constitutionl has been ili fbrce nineteen years. I think that during that period not more than one amendment has been proposed and adopted by that State (if I am in error, some gentleman better acquainted with Indian affairs can correct me), and this, too, notwithstanding the Legislature has power to submit amendments to every article of their Constitution or make a whole new Constitution and submit that. There has been no abuse of the power thus reposed in the Legislature that I have heard of. Now, let me refer to the Constitutioni of Iowa. It declares: Any amendment or amendments to this Constitution may be proposed in either house of the General Assembiy; and if the same shall be agreed to by a majority of the members elected to each of the two houses, such proposed amendment shall be entered on their journals, with the yeas and nays taken thereon, and referred to the Legislature to be cho. sen at the next general election, and shall be published, as provided by law, for three months previous to the time of making such choice, and if, in the next General Assembly so next chosen as aforesaid, such proposed amendment or amendments shall be agreed to by a majority of all the members elected to each house, then it shall be the duty of the General Assembly to submit such proposed amendment or amendments in such manner and at such time as thp General Assembly I 1316 CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION SATURDAY, Air. ROSS. Mr. Chairman: I move to strike out that "four years." Air. HAINES, of Cook. Mr Chairman: It has been sta, ed by the gentle man from Lee [inir. Deiiient] that this article does not allow any amendments to the Constitution oftelier than o,,-ice in four years. That must be a mistake. It is not the language of the article. The language is "nor to the same article oftener than once in four years." it does not preclude the Legislature from submittiiig amendments once in two years. They can propose amendments to the Constitution every two years, according to this, and under the two minority reports, nothing is said about time at all. Mr. PEIRCE. Mr. Chairman: I would like to say one word upon striking Out "one" and inserting "two" in this section If there is any one thing more important than another in civil government, it is stability and permauencv. It is desirable that the people know what the laws are and what the Constitution is. It does seem to me that it will be a great mistake if we leave the Constitution in such shape that it will be possi ble for the Legislature at any session to form a combination by which certain interests in one part of the State may urge amendments to one article, and other interests to another article, and submit those amendments together to the people to be acted upon. Thus we would have the Legislature, half of its time, perhaps, engaged in framing proposed amendments to the Constitution. Instead of having a Legisl4ture to enact laws, we will have, in effect, a Leoislatur-e constantly framing.ameiidmeiits to the Constitution. It does seem to me that it will 13ad to interminable difficulties and confusion. It will be impossible for the people to know what the orgttiiic law is. It is now a great complai t against Legislatures that the statutes are too often chadged; and how much greater will be the complaint if, together with this rapidity of eblaijgiiig the statutes, we have a Constitution constantly cha.DgiDg? I boi)e this amendment will -not be adopted. It seems tome that it, is suffi cient to allow- one amendment to be made at a time, and be decided by the people, on its own inerits. It seems to rae that it is a very great advance toward liberaliz. ol... Mr. TINCHER. Is it rioht to submit more than one or not-or let them just submit as many as they have a mind to? Mr. ROSS- I proposed'that, and the m8jority of the Convention once adopted it, but they reconsidered the vote, and I now ask that the Legislature may propose amendments to at least two sections of the Constitution. Mr. AIEDILL. Mr., Chairman: It is well and proper for the Constitutional Convention, if they err at all, to err on the side of caution. While I admit that proposition, nevertheless, we may go too tar in that direction-letting fear get the better of judginert. I think the proposition of the gentleman from Fulton [,Nlr. Ross], to authorize the Legislatut-e to subnil't two amendmeiuts in one session is entirely within the bounds of prudence, safety and circumspection.. I do Dot make that remark upon my own judgaient alone, but upon the experietice of other States. Let me read, for the information of the committee, from the Constitutions of three of our sister western States-the States of Ohio, Indiana and Iowa- -lying upon the right and lefu of us, two of wh:lch are old(r than Illinois, and one younger. The State of Indiana adopted a Constitution in 1851,- which provides, in regard to amendments, as follows: DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. shallprovide; and if the people shall approve Mr. WAIT. Mr. Chairman: I feel and ratify such amendment or amendments this to be a subject of considerable ima by a majority or the electors qualified to vote for members of the General Assembly, votitg portance, and one that we should act up thereon, such amendment or amendments on with due deliberation. shall become a part of the Constitution of The Constitution of the State is some this State. thing that should be made more perma In Iowa it is required that the question nent than statute law. It is, to be sure, a shall come before two Legislatures, but law in one sense of the word, but at the a mere majority of each house may sub- same time it should be considered as more mit as many a endments as they please permanent, less changeable, less uncertain at any session, and no harmhas come from as to its perpetuity, than a legislative en that discretionary power. aetmeat. Itis a l-.ndmark-a boundary Now, I turn to Ohio, which is.h actment. It is a lzjidmark —a boundary. o, I tun to Oh, which is the And shall these landmarks and bounda oldest and most populous of all the States ries be as uncertain and as easily cha,nge of the great north-western sisterhood. It able as the laws of the State? reads as follows: The amendment suggested by the gen Either branch of the General Assembly may propose amendments to this Constitution tleman from Fulton [Mr. Ross] proposes and if the same shall be agreed to by three- that amendments to two) articles of the fifths of the members elected to each house Constitution may be proposed at each ses such proposed amendments shall be entered sion of the Legislature. For instance, it on the journals, with the yeas and nays, and may propose amendmentsto the judiciary shall be published in at least one newspaper in each county in the State where a news article and the legislative, and thus en paper is published, for six months preceding tirely alter the character of the Constitu the next election for senators and representa- tion, for those two, together with the ex tires, at which time the same shall be sub- ecutive article, are the gi:st of the Consti mitted to the electors for their approval or tut,on. The executive urticlc and bill of rejection; and if a majority of the electorsi. The eectie article and bill of voting at such election shall adopt such rights could then be amended at the fol amendments, the same shall become a part of lowing session. And thus the Legislature, the Constitution. When more than one in a very short timhe, could entirely demol amendment shall be submitted at the same ish our Constitution, build up a new one time, they shall be so submitted as to enable o t r na d u a on the electors to vote on each amendment sepa- on its ruins, and thus make our organic rately. law as urnstable as the desert sands. In Ohio, therefore, a three-fifths vote of And, again, the Legislature may devote each branch, can submit to the people as a large portion of its time to changing g many amendments to the Constitution as and abolishing the very organic law tihat in their discretion they see proper; and gave it birth. There are some forty-four they have, since 1851, when that Consti- different sections in the legislative article, tution was adopted, submitted amend- and some forty-eight in the executive, if menrts but twice, to my recollection, I mistake not. All these sections, amount which, both times, were voted down by ing to some ninety-two, n:ay be changed the people. by one Legislature, under the amendment MIr. ELDREDGE. Perhaps no harm proposed by the gentleman from Fulton done. [LMr. Ross], and this may occur every two MIr. MIEDILL. The gentleman from years. LaSalle L[Mr. Eldredge] says: "'Perhaps Gentlemen say: "Are vou afraid to no harm done." Probably not. But the trust the people'" Of course not; but first time, there was a batch of amend- the people ask for an organic law of some menits submitted. The last time it was a stability. A Constitution is a limititasingle amendment-something in regard lion of power upon the Legislature-it is to public improvements; and both were more sacred than a statute-it exists not rejected by the people. in expediency, but in right. The people, therefore, in that State, Those principles should be settled for can have amendments to their Constitu- a more definite length of time than a tion proposed at any session of the Leg- mere statute law. islature, without limit as to subject or It is said that the Legislature cannot number. Every article may be revised get their amendments, if improperly proand re-cast, and submitted to the people posed, ratified by the people. But do the of Ohio, by a three-fifths vote of the Leg- people want to be eternally on the lookislature; and in Iowa and Indiana by a out lest the Constitution of their State be mere majority vote. changed, and they deprived of their For nineteen years in Ohio, and for rights? Must they be on the lookout nineteen years also in Indiana, and for lest the Legislature alter the billof rights? thirteen years in Iowa, the people have Must they be forever vigilant upon this enjoyed this discretion to amend their subject, lest the landmarks of our liberConstitution, and no harm has come of it. ties be overthrown? Must this question No Legislature has sought to abuse its come before the people once every two powers by thrusting on the people frivi- years? Why seek to make our organic lons or improper amendments. law so unstable and shifting? For my I shall, therefore, support the proposi- part I am opposed to the amendment. tion of the gentleman from Fulton [Mr. Purge the Constitution of special legisla- Ross] to allow at least two amendments tion let it be made up of well-tested to be submitted by any session of the principles, and I assure gentlemen that General Assembly. For so long as the it will need no changes every two years. power of acceptance or rejection is in the Mr. MEDILL. I would ask the gen-t hands of the people no harm can be done, tleman, may not the Constitution of the and there is no danger of the Legisla- United States be changed at any time by ture troubling the people with inconse- the submission of an amendment, by quential, improper, or frequent amend- two-thirds of Congress to three-fourths of ments, as the long experience of other the Legislatures of the States? States amply demonstrates. The suppo- Mr. WAIT. That is so. I supposed sition that the people will be constantly that was known to everybody in this harrassed and vexed with legislative tin- country. kering of the Constitution is baseless, ant Mr. WHEATON. Mr. Chairman: It the apprehension idle. seems to me that the real question is mis 330 ArizIL 16, 1870. 1317 apprehended. It is not a question really as to the chai3giDg of the Constitution itself, but as to how and by whom the proposed changes -.hall be submitted to the people. It is the people ultimately that chadge the organic laiv. The pow er is purely and solely with them. It is simply for us to determine who shall pro pose the changes to the people. Shall it be the Legislature at all? If the Legis lature, how shall the Legislature provide for submitting to'the people a change in the organic law.' Shall it be by decididg by a two-thirds vote, that a Convention shall be called, or by themselves, determining by a two-thirds vote that certain amendments shall be directly submitted to the people? Is there or can there be any reason given why the one way of cha-Dging, or submitting to the people a change in the oroadic law, is any better tl,ian the other 9 Tt is the Legislature in either case that in its inception proposes the chaDLre. By thection we have already adopted we provide that whenever two thirds of all the mc-mbers elected to each branch of the General Asseiribly, shall thidk it necessary to call a Convention, they shall re. commend that the electors vote for a Convention. They, themselves, then take initial steps to determine that it is ziecessary that the organic law should be changed. But it is the people that determine',ult;mately whether, fir,,t, a Convention shall be called, and secondly, if called, whether their work shall be ratified. The Le-islature list as properly, it seems to me, raicht determine themselves that certain amendments are necessary to the Constitution, and submit the amendments directly to the people, as to determine it necesary to call a Convention to prop,ose changes in the organic law, and go through the double machinery of the Legislature determining the necessity of the change, the necessity of a Convent-,.on, and the final determination of the people to accept the work of the Convention or not. Now, as I read the history of this country for the past twenty or twenty-five years, it convinces my mind that CoDstitutioral Conventions, (without saying anything concerning this one, for its work has not yet been passed upon) have been failures, have done their work no better-have ro osed amendments no 138c-SIUINL'XETO oDY or else give them unlimited power to propose as many amendments as in their wisdom they may deem fit, and let the people act directly upon the proposition of the Legislature. There can be no reason, in principle, why we should limit a Legislature to whom we give power to propose amendments, to proposing one article at a time. There is a safeguard, as suggested by the gentleman from Bureau [Mr. Whiting], in requiring two-thirds of the members of each house elected to determine that amendments to the Constitution shall be proposed to the people for their ratification. Unless the gentlemen are willing to assert upon this floor that there is more wisdom in Conventions than in Legislatures, upon these questions, there can be no argument whatever that is correct in principle against the proposition as originally introduced by the gentleman from Fulton [Mir. Ross] of striking out the entire limitation. [Here the hammer fell.] Mr. PERLEY. I want a vof ce taken upon this question. [Laughter.] The CHAIRMAN. T1he question is upon the motion of the gentleman from Fulton [Mr. Ross] to strike out "one" in the article and insert "two." A division was ordered. The committee divided, when, there bein g twenty-one in the affirmative and twenty-four in the negative, the motion was not agreedI to. The question being on the motion of Mr. Fuller to strike out "oftener than once in four years," it was not agreed to. The CHAIRMIAN. The question is now upon the adoption of the section. Section two was agreed to. Mr. WASHBURN. Mr. Chairman: I will renew my motion now to strike out the first section. Mr. CARY. Mr. Chairman: I move that the committee now rise. Mr. SPRIN GER. Mr. Chairman: I move to amend by adding that we report the article back to the Convention. The amendment was agreed to. The motion of Mr. Cary, as amended by Mr. Springer, was agreed to. Mr. ARCHER, Mr. President: I move that two hundred copies of the article, as reported back, be printed for the use of the Convention. Mr. SPRINGER. Mr. President: I move to amend by adding "that the Convention concur in this report." We can then refer it to the Committee on Revision and Adjustment. Mr. ARCHER. Mr. President: I think the article is a very important one. A great many amendments have been offered, several of which have been adopted, and have very materially changed the report of the committee as made. I think we ought to act upon this with deliberation. I think the report as sent from the Committee of the Whole, should lie upon the table and be printed, that we may understand before voting finally upon it, what we are voting upon. That is certainly necessary and proper, in view of the importance of the article. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The question is upon the amendment of the gentleman from Madison [Mr. Springer], that the Convention concur in the report of the Committee of the Whole. Mr. MEDILL. Mr. President: I have a substitute to offer for the first section Prayew er was offered byr the Rev. Mr. Hale, of Springfield, as follows: Father of Heaven, may we realize that Thou art present, ard that every thought, every heart is naked and open to the eyes of Him with whom we have to do. We praise Thee for the gift of our being. We thank Thee for the goodness of God that has manifested itself every day of our lives. We thank Thee merciful Father, for Thy kind, preserving care which so constantly has been manifested towards us. An d we prais e The e above all for the gift of Thy beloved Son, that in Him we may not perish, but have everlasting life. O, Lord, give us grace, we pray Thee, to renew here in this place our consecration to Thee, and specially grant to all the members of this body, representing as they do, the highest interests of this State; may God give them grace to look unto Him for wisdom, and do Thou, 0, Lord God, be their guide, the guide of their thoughts, a light to their minds, and their guard in every hour of temptation; and grant that their work here, in behalf of the people of the State, may be gloriously successful, that future generations ever may have occasion to thank God for their work. Bless their families in their absence, show mercy to them, we pray and entreat Thee. Preserve their lives, and in due time, when their work is finished, may they in their household, rejoice in God. And may the blessing of God rest upon this State. O, Thou, who hast brought it up with such rapidity of growth, do Thou in mercy infuse wisdom, grace, strength, and purity in every heart throughout this State. Bless our rulers we pray Thee, with the guidance that is altogether divine. Watch over us, and in this State may there ever live in the hearts of the people that law written within-love thy neighbor as thyself, and do unto all men as we would they should do to us-and to Thy great name, Father, Son and Holy Spirit, shall be everlasting praises. Amen. without any limit as to the number that may be submitted at any one time. Now, to answer the argument made by th e gentlema n from McLean [tir. Benjamin], that t he L egislatur e may be continually proposing to the people amendments to the Constitution, I would say that under section one, already adopted, the Legislature may be continually submitting to the people the question of a Convention to amend the Constitutionand is not the argument just as strong in the one case as in the other? We leave it to the Legislature to determine whether a Convention shall be called or not. They submit that to the people to day, and the people vote against a Convention. They may submit that at the next session of the Legislature, and continue to submit it; and to use the language of the gentleman from McLean [Mr. BeDjamin], and that of the gentleman who followed him —the people may be called upon year after year to vote for or against a Convention. What of it? As long a, the people exercise the right which is inherent to them to vote down the Convention or not, there is no harm done, and however many amendments the Legislature may submit, the power is still in the people to accept or reject. If they accept them it is to be presumed that they are beneficial, for if not they would not do so. If they reject them there is no harm done. What difference does it make in principle who proposes to the people amendments to their organic law? What difference does it make in principle by whom the amendments are submitted, whether by a Convention of eighty-five respectable gentlemen like this body here assembled, or whether by a Legislature, one house composed of two hundred or less, and the other of fifty or more? Mr. BENJAMIN. Mr. Chairman: If the gentleman will allow me, I will state that my main objection was that the Legislature, without limitation as to amendments, might spend nearly half its time in framing amendments; that if the Legislature be allowed to frame and pro'pose amendments to the Constitution at pleasure, it might do little else, and neglect proper legislative duties. Mr. WHEATON. In answer to the gentleman I will say that such has not been the experience in those States where the Legislature has an unlimited right to submit amendments to the people. Such has not been the history of Nesw York; such has not been the history of Ohio; such has not been the history of Indiana, such has not been the history of Iowa, nor has such been the history of any State. In neither of these States are the Legislatures limited as to the number of amendmnents that may be submitted to the people at any one time, and unless the people of the State of Illinois, or the representatives of the people of Illinois, are made of different material from those of other States, we can have nothing more to fear from their action than from the action of the Legislatures of the other States I have named. I can see no reason why there should be this limitation in the Constitution upon the Legislature, of submitting only one article at a time, if we give them the power to submit at all. Eith~er strip them entirely of power, and say that they shall have no right to propose amendments to the people, and shall only have the right to propose the Conventi~ to the people, CO STITUTIONAL CON'VENTION 1318 MONDAYI adopted by the Committee of the Whole. I ask to have it printed with the sections as adopted by the committee. The PRESIDENT, pro te7npore. The question is on the motion of the gentleman from Madison [Mr. SpriDger], that the Convention do now concur with the , report of the Committee of the Whole. ADJOURNIVIENT. Mr. CARY. I move we adjourn. A division was ordered. The Convention divided, when, there bei.Dg twenty-five in the affirmative and tweiaty-three in the negative, the motion was agreed to. So the Colivention'(at four o'clock and twenty- seven minute Is) adjourned. SEI,'ENTY-TKIBD DAY. MONDAY, April 18,1870. The Convention met at nine o'clock A. m., and was called to order by the President. PRAYER. READING OF T]IIE JO'URNAL. IThe Secretary proceeded to read the journal of the last day's proceedings when Mr. DEMENT. Mr. President: I move that the further reading of the journal be dispensed with. The motion was agreed to. CREDENTIALL- OF ][ION. IIENRY TUBBS. The PRESIDENT. The Chair will Presentthecredentialsof the gentleman from Warren county [Mr. Tubbs] which have been received this morDiDg, and ask that they be entered on the Journal. [The credentials are Is fof.ows:] APRIL 18, 18O DEBATES AND POCEEDIGS. 1319 The line between church and State in this country is clearly drawn. The du ties to Almighty God are not touched in any manner whatever by human government. We have no jurisdiction of the subject. While our social relations and our duties to our fellow creatures are properly and legitimately the subject of human legislation, all efforts heretofore made in the old world and in this country to introduce religious tests or to incorporate in a Constitution or government made by all the people for all the people, any part of the creed of any one church, are, in my humble judgment, tyrany and despotism, and an abuse of the power of human government wholly unwarranted, which, in modern times, will not be submitted to, and ought not to be submitted to by a free people who claim for themselves the sovereign right of religious liberty, and are equally determined to grant the same right and privilege to every other human being. I move that the petition be referred to the Committee on the Bill of Rights. [Mr. Medill], as t he Chair is informed, has not been placed in charge of the Secretary. The journal does not disclose even the presentation of the substitute; and the Chair has not, therefore, put tbe qttestion in regard to it. If the Convention desires the amendment of the journal, that it may conform to any facts that exist, the journal can be corrected. Mr. WHEATON. Mr. President: There was no such substitute. The gentleman had one in his hand, which he carried around, and showed to gentlemen, privately. Mr. DEMIENT. Mr. President: It is as stated by the gentleman from Kane [Mr. Wheaton]. If the gentleman from Cook [Mr. Medill] is present at any session, he can present it. Mr. CARY. Mr. President: I have the substitute of the gentleman from Cook [Mr. Medillj and will read it. It is as follows: c0 o0 ,CD CD -4 p o 5 1492 59 ao - 5 ~ 15 ~ ~ 20 : 1 o-~~ o * 1 ._ —:~-~.I Henrv Tubbs................. Barzilla Parker...... A. A. Hoisington............. Rufus Ogden.................. W. O. Kidder................ D. P. Phielps................. Wilk. Monroe............... A. Vandevere................ H. Page...................... Geo. W. Beekner............. Geo. W. Rinehart............ 1 f e FUTURE AMENDMENTS. The PRESIDENT. The petition will be referred to the Committee on Bill of Rights. . The first business in order under the rule is the disposition of the unfinished business of Saturday, which isthe motion of the gentleman from Pike [Mr. Archerl, to lay upon the table and order printed two hundred copiesof the report of the Committee of the Whole on future amendments, and the amendment proposed thereto by the gentleman f rom Madison [Mr. Springer], that the Convention now concur in the report of the committee. The Chair will say that under the rules the motion to lay on the table has precedence. If the Convention shall desire to act upon the report of the Committee of the Whole, in accordance with the amendment proposed by the gentleman from Madison [Mr. Springer], they can decline to lay upon the table, when the question will recur upon the motion of the gentleman from Madison. The question is upon the motion of the gentleman from Pike [Mr. Archer], to lay the report upon the table, and order two hundred copies thereof to be printed. A division was ordered. The Convention divided, when, there being twenty-five in the affirmative and thirteen in the negative, the motion was agreed to. So the report was laid upon the table, and two hundred copies ordered to be printed. Mr. CARY. That includes in the motion the substitute of the gentleman from Cook [Mr. Medill.] Mr. ARCHER. I accepted that as part of my motion. cin Mr. DEMENT. -Mr. President: I did not so understand it. The manner in which the question has been put this morning, would not indicate that fact. However, upon hearing the substitute read (which, it will be recollected, was not read by the gentleman from Cook [Mr. Medill]), the Convention may then order it to be printed with the article. I call for the reading of the substitute, so that we can vote for or against its printing intelligently. The PRESIDENT. The substitute proposed by the gentleman from Cook ARTICLE-. AMENDMENTS TO THE CONSTITUTION. SECTION 1. Whenever two-thirds of the members in each branch of the General As semb ly shall, by a vote entered upon the journals thereof, concur that a Convention is necessary to revise, alter or amend the Con stitution, the question shall be submitted to the electors at the next general election. If a majority voting at the election, vote for a Convention, the General Assembly shall, at the next session, provide for a Convention to consist of double the number of members of the senate, to be elected in the same manner, at the same places and in the same districts. Said Convention shall meet within three months after such election, and prepare such revision alteration, or amendments of the Con stitution as shall be deemed necessary. The General Assemblv shall, in the act calling the Convention, designate the day, hour and place of its meeting; fix the pay of its mem bers and officers, and shall provide for the payment of the same, together with the ex. penses necessarily incurred by the Conven tion in the performance of its duties. Before proceeding, the members shall take an oath to support the Constitution of the United States, and of the State of Illinois, and to faithfully discharge their duties as members of the Convention. The qualifications of members shall be the same as that of members of the senate, and vacancies occurring shall be filled in the manner of filling vacancies in the General Assembly. The revision, alterations or amendments as aforesaid, shall be submitted to the electors for their ratification or rejection, at an election appointed by the Convention for that purpose, not less than two nor more than six months after their adjournment thereof, and unless so submit. ted, and approved bv the electors, no such revision, alterations or amendments shall take effect. I will state the most of this is the same as the section adopted. It fixes a less number of members for a Constitutional Convention, however. It provides for one hundred and two, instead of tbe floating and uncertain number contemplated by the section reported by the committee. I move, sir, that the same number of copies of the substitute be printed, and that it be laid on the table with the other, to be considered at the same time. Mr. SPRINGER.'Mr. President: I think all'hat is contained in the proposed substitute of the gentleman from JoDaviess [Mr. Cary] was voted upon, on Saturday, and rejected. I do not know how we could amend the matter by having it printed. Mr. WELLS. It was not acted upon. It was presented by myself, in nearly a similar form. Mr. SPRINGER*. Was not that the motion of the gentleman from Lee [Mr. Dement]?.t DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1319 APRIL 18) 1870, Abstract of votes gi?,en in the co and,Stat of -Illiois, for the p ces herein described, on Tues 1870: Names of persons voted for. Poll books opened and abstract made in our presence, at the clerk's office in Monmouth, this 13th day Of Ap il, 1870. N. A. &NKIN, J. P. SAMUEL H.&RVEY, J. P. W. G. BONIC, Clerk of the County Court. PETITIONS AND CO'UMUNICATIONS. The PRESIDENT. The presentation of communications and petitions is now in order. RELIGTOUS TESTS. Mr. UNDERWOOD. Mr. President: I held in my hand a petition from upwards of one thousand substantial citizens of Randolph and the adjoining counties, praying that there be inc.-)rporated i,.i the'Constitution an acknowledgment of Almighty God as the source of all authority in civil government, and the Lord Jesus Christ, as rul(r of all nations, and His revealed'will as supreme authority; and further asking that such provisions be introduced into the body of the Constitution as may be necessary to give effect to these amendments in the preamble. I shall move that it be referred to the Committee on the Bill of Rights. And while I am up permit me to say that many of these gentlemen I have known for years. They are conscientious MeD, and believe that these provisions should be incor'porated in our Constitution. To most members of this ConventiOD, so far as these propositions are concerned, they could doubtless endorse them with great propriety, for they are established. by reasons to most minds alroo,-,t ,equal to a demonstration. 'At the same time, Mr. President, I am equally clear, that while persons have a right to entertain these opinions, we have no right whatever, to put in a civil compact, in the Constitution or in the laws of the State,anythiDg which impairs or infringes on the right of any other haman being in this State, to entertain and.express such opinions as he in his conscience may reach. 1320 ()'ONSTITUTIONAL OONYENiTJON MoRAY, is a deception, and that they are liable to be mulcted in an expenditure of $7,000,000 or $8,000,000, or as some have even put it, $10,000,000. Now, to disabuse public opinion, to relieve Springfield and the State house enterprise from that prejudice, and to relieve the people from apprehension of this great cost,. they desire, as I stated, that it shall be limited not to exceed $3,000,000, and they are ready now to enter into bonds that they will complete the Stete house for the estimated cost of $100,000 or $200,000 less than $3,000,000. f Now, with reference to the grounds. If the Convention indicates that it is willing to allow the State house commissioners to go into an additional expenditulre for grounds to the extent of over $1,000,000, thereby virtually entailing upon the State an additional expenditure of over $1,000,000 above the $3,000,000 estimiated cost of the State house, this article should be adopted. But I assume here that a quarter of a million dollars will buy all the additional grounds neces sary, and that there is no necessity at this time to provide for an expenditure of an additional $1,000,000 for parchasing additional grounds. If the gentleman will modify his proposition so as to make it $3,000,000, I will support it. Mr. SEDGWICK. Mr. President: I would sav I h ave no objection to modifyingc it to tbree million dollars, provided that is understood to be f(o: the comple tion of the State hous?, but it must be remembered that thi-s proposition includes all that has been expended here, tofo re, either in property or money, to secure a house of the present size. eMr. DEMENT. MIr. President: I ask the gentleman if this is not the state of the case. The estimated cost is one hundred and forty thousand or one hundred and fifty thousand dollars less than three millions. The appropriation of three million dollars for the whole expense, as I understand it, will cover the whole cost, and is enough to comiplete the State house. I did, however, suppose, when I made my first remarks, that the gentleman contemplated the purchase of other grounds than those that are already purchased. If it is found that the estimated cost of construction includes the purchase of other ground, the gentleman from DeKalb [Mr. Sedgwick] is correct to the extent that may be found necessary, which will not, however, 1e an additional million or make the total amount four million dollars. MCP: SEDGWICK. Mr. President: I ask the Secretary to read the proposition, that the gentleman may understand. The Secretary read the proposition offered by Mr. Sedgwick, as follows: ARTICLE —. SECTIONS:- The General Assembly shall not appropriate out of the State treasury, or otherwise, or in any manner expend in and upon the new capitol grounds and State house ain process of construction on said grounds, in order to complete them, a sum of money exceeding in the aggregate four millions of dollars including all sums of money or property heretofore appropriated or expended in tand upon said grounds and building, or contracts for the same, without first being authorized by the people of this State to make an increased~ expenditure, by submitting a proposition to 3 vote of the people at a gcnoral election, naming the amount proposed to be expended, which proposition for an RArLROADS AS PUBLICw IGIEIWYS. 3{r. CHURCH. Alr. President: I desire to introduce a proposition to amend the Constitution, and ask that it be con sidered, in connection with the report that is lying on the ta ble, for the consid e ra ootion of the Convention hereafter. I will, before sending it up, read it, for information, and offer a brief explana tion. Railways heretofore constructed, or that may hereafter be constructed in this State, are hereby declared public highways, and shall be free to all persons for the transporta tion of persons and property thereon, under such regulations as may be prescribed by law. I do not desire, at this time, to enter into a discussion of the merits of this proposition, but merely to say that it contemplates a state of things that may arise, sfiould a series of propositions that I have heretofore had the honor to intro duee, and afterwards to report, under the instructions of a committee, to which I was attached, be adopted by the Conven tion. Railw,,ay companies, with the extraordi nary privileges they have been allowed to enjoy, and the extraordinary powers they have been allowed to exercise, in confiscating private property fOr private corporations, have been justified by the courts, only on the principle that railroads are a species of public highways-im proved highways, they are called by the courts; yet the practices have been such that all participation by the public in these highways has been denied, unless they conform themselves entirely to the private regulation of the private corpora. tion; the people whose property has been condemned, having had no voice in the matter. The public, in their sovereign capacity, as law-makers, have been held to have no participation in the regulation of these. highways, but practically the roads and franchises and extraordinary immun ities have been held and controlled by the companies simply as private property. This proposition is simply declaratory of the limitation of those rights as they have been indicated by the courts, and jirstified in the exercise of those great powers over private rights. The proposition does not contemplate any encroachment upon the rights of property, but that under the sovereign power by which the people ofthe State have the right to subject private property to public uses, this railroad property may be subejected to the public uses as a public highway, under such regulations as shall be prescribed by 11}, in reference to compensation and ulses. THE NEW STATE I1OUSE. Mr K.SE GWICK. I offer the follow ihg article. The Secretary read the article offtered by Mlr. Sedgwick as follows; ARTICLE -. SECTION-. The General Assembly shall not appropriate out of the State treasury, or o therwise, or in any manner expend in and upon the new capitol grounds and State house, in process of construction, or said grounds, in order to complete them, a sum of money excedingins the aggregate, four sibll l ions of dol lars, including all sums of money or property heretofore appropriated or ex pended in anld upon said grounds and build in-, or contracts for the same, without first being authorized by the people of this State to make an increased expenditure, by submit ting a proposition to a vote of the people at a general election, naming the amount propos ed to be expended, which proposition for an additional expenditure, shall have recei.ved a majority of all the votes cast at such general election. 3Mr. SEDGWICK. Mr. President: I ask to have it lie on the table, that two hundred copies be printed, and that it be made the special order for Thursday morning, at nine and a half o'clock. Mr. DEMENT. Mr President: I hav;e no objection to the proposition taking the course indicated by the gentleman from DeKalb [MNr. Sedgwick]; but I will suggest, for reasons, that he modify his-proposition to $3,000,000. I have conversed with some of the state house commissioners, and I am informed that before our currency was enhanced as much as it is now, there were responsible individuals who were willing to enter into bonds for the completion of that whole work at the cost estimated by architects, and others, which is between one and two hundred thousand dollars less than three millions. Mr. SEDGWICK. }Ir. President: Will the gentleman allow me? I desire to ask him, whether he intends the $3,000,000 simply for the building, or whether that sum includes the grounds and expenses of fitting them up? I will remind the gentleman that this proposition of $4,000,000 includes the grounds and all. Mr. DEMIENT. Mr. President: I understand the subject upon which I am' speaking. I will explain further that it is desired i by the friends of the State house project,' as I understand it, that a restriction of' the kind shall be adopted by this Con- I stitutional Convention to relieve the sub- i ject of the prejudice felt throughout the EState against the enterprise, on account of the apprehension that the amount of ] less than $3,000,000 as the Estimated cost, 1320 CONSTITUTIONAL CONVEIN- TION -AIONDAY, additional expenditure shall have received a majority of all the votes cast at such general election. -Alr. VANDEVENTER. i)fr. President: There is a Committee on Public Accounts and Expenditurc2s. seems to me eminently -proper that the, resolution should be referred to that commit. tee. I move, therefore, that it be -o re. -'erred. The ques'ion being on the motion of YLr. Va.deventer, it was agreed to. POSTAGE TO CONVENTION. Mr. CROSS offered the following resolution, which was read by the Secretary, and agreed to: Resol.ved, That the Secretary of State be directed to furnish to each member on his order, po,tage stamps not exceeding flve dollars. i'vir. WELLS. No, sir; it was a inotio made by myself. In all, except the num ber of members, it was similar to a mo tion I presented, and the Chair, at th time, ruled'it to be premature, becaus there were two amendmerts pending. A number of gentlemen asked to have i presented to the Convention, after th committee had. risen. The gentlema from Cook [Afr. -Aledill] put it into tli shape it now is, and would have present ed it to the Conventik)D, if the questio had come up. The PRESIDENT.'I-he question is shall the proposed substitute be printed and lie on the table, to be considered i Convention, at the same time the repor of the Committee of the Whole, relatin to future amendments, is considered. The motion was agreed to. API 18 80 EAE - ~CEIG.12 did against the extension of suffrage to aliens, I was not influenced by the teach ings of radicalism, but by the time-hon ored principles of the democracy. The democratic party has alwaysbeen in favor of the naturalization of foreigners. The greatest statesmen in the party have ever upheld the laws of naturalization as nec essary and just. The platforms of the party, adopted at different times, have never sought to admit the subjects of foreign powers to the right s and p rivi leges of citizenship in-the United States, by any other means than their naturali. zation in our courts, by their renouncing allegiance to foreign potentates, and as suming the duties of citizenship, on be ing invested with its privileges. The platform of the party, adopted in national convention in New York city does not require this change in the prin ciples of the party; the present platform of the democratic party in this State does not require it; the foreign-born cit izens have not asked it; the press has not advocated or called for it; and I de ny the right of any man, or set of men, to lay down any new planks on these platforms. In 1848, the democratic party was largely in the ascendency in this State, and was largely in the ascendency in the Convention which framed our pres ent Constitution. It was in that year that the privilege of voting at elections was taken from the alien, the Convention in the first place, and the people of dem ocratic Illinois in the second, deciding that it was proper and democratic to do so. In 1848 it was decided that those for. eigners who had exercised the franchise should continue to vote, but that there after all coming to the State from for eign countries, should be naturalized be fore admission to the ballot-box. That is one reason, although not the only one, why I vqted as I did. I de sired to act in conformity with the usages and principles of the party to which I belong. I voted with the so called "radicals" on the question for another reason-that the proposition to extend the suffrage without restriction was not offered in this Convention in good faith, but with hostile intent. The argument used was since the negroes are allowed to vote, let any white mall vote, whether a citizen or not. Two wro~ngs will never make a right. If the government, or party in power in this country, has injured us by extending the suffrage to the colored race, it does not follow that we should injure ourselves in retaliation. I can go further than this. The African race born upon Amnerican soil, owe alleg anlce to no other country, and have at heart as strong love for th~e government and institutions of the country as any other class of citizens in the land; but the case is different with tame~ of foreign birth and foreign feeling, whoP have thfe sneer ever ready on their lip;a andihatred deep seated in their hearts, ibr every institution that is American in name. As an appeal to the- prejudices of the foreign born citizens the effort at misrepresentation will not succeed;* the guaze is too thin —it can too plainly be seen through. Foreign born citizens are Willing to pay the penalty of five years} residence fog the privilege of citizenship. They haw~, on reaching our shores, much to unlearn Th e gentleman from Kane [rair. Wheaton] desires to have it read again. The Secredary read the proposition offered by Mr. Church, as follows: R ai l ways heretof o re constructed, or th at may hereafter be constructed in this State, are hereby declared public highways, and shall be free to all persons for the transportation of persons and property thereon, under such regulations as may be prescribed by law. Mr. CHURCH. I move that it lie on the table, that the usual number be printed, and that it be made the special order to be considered in connection with the report of the Committee on Railroads. The motion was agreed to. * * * X * Several democrats voted with the radicals on Mr. Cody's amendment, among whom were Messrs. Cameron and Hanna. In the columns of the Register I find an editorial, from which I read the follow ivg extracts: Yesterday, the humiliating scene was pre sented in the Constitutional Convention of men, whose visage was white, consenting to a degradation that will live in history as long a s Illinois is a State. It was the voluntary confe ssion that white men are no longer ca pable of managing this State government. It was an admission that an inferior and barbar ous race were needed to assist white men in conducting the affairs of Illinois. In a word, if was an imputation far more dishonorable than contained in the call for negro troops to put down the rebellion. I oudno ak p hetmeo te * *'* * *In14,tedmcai pat wa And such is the inevitable deduction from the act of the Convention. No one listening to the procedings, we mean no man with Cau casian blood in his veins, could fail to blush with shame at the scene enacted. It was mortifying, inglorious. And the more so, because it was volunta ry. It was an admission that this great State accepted the chains imposed by a tyrannical federal power. No white man was required to make this acknowledgment. If the fif teenth amendment had been ratified, it was by no means necessary that our Constitution should be changed to comport with its re quirements. It does not tollow because the negroes are made voters by its adoption and ratification, that we should change our or ganic law. * * * * This shameful wrong was not done with out a struggle. Right-hearted men stood up and protested against it. They insisted that the people should be heard upon a question s o momentous. They contended that it should be submitted to the popular vote. Even this was refused. The people were to have no voice, and driven to the wall, the brave rep resentatives of the Anglo-Saxon race were, by numbers, compelled to submit. Then follows a list of nineteen gentle man referred to, which I will not read. The object, or at least the effect, of both articles, it will be observed, is the same to bring into disrepute the action of this Convention on the question of suffrage by an unprincipled appeal to party preju dice. The article as adopted is assailed, how ever on different grounds in these two papers. In the ease of the Times, the burden of complaint is that injustice has been done to aliens,the subjects of foreign powers, by not admitting them to the same privileges enjoyed by native born and naturalized citizens. On no other ground could an attack be made from this quarter. The T/ioes was one of the first papers to advocate the provisions of the fifteenth amendment, and consequently can utter no complaint against the action of this Convention on the question of colored suffrage. I am not charged with having voted improperly on thle extension of the ballot to the African race, but of having voted with "radicals" against the rights and interests of the white race. I ask the "-privilege of showing that this charge is not well founded; that in voting as I QUESTION OF PRIVILEGE. Mr. CAMERON. Mr. President: I regret the necessity that is imposed upon me, of rising to a personal explanation. I find in the rep ort o f the Chicage o Times, and in the columns of the Springfield Register, what, in the first instance, may have been an unintentional misstatement of fact on the part of the reporter; but what, in the second, seems to have been a willful falsehood on the part of the editor. I would not take up the time of the Convention by alluding to any statement that may have appeared in the columns of the Register, were it not for the fact that its editor is the official printer of our proceedings, and that in consequence his assertions are invested with an authority and importance which would not other wise appertain to them. I introduce the subject for another rea son, viz: The Tims is regarded, and very justly, as the leading organ of a great party in this State, and the Register claims to be considered the organ of the same party in Central Illinois. We know how pretentious such claims often are, and how pretentious they must be con sidered in the case of a paper edited by a gentleman whose qualification, we are led to infer, consists in the quality of blood, and not the quantity of brains. The course of these journals, if the report in the Times is approved, would seem to indicate that a certain class of newspapers in this State, with the Times, possibly, although I hope not, at the head of the list, -nd the Springfield Register, without doubt, at the bottom of it, are disposed, for purposes which are appar ent to every one, to mislead public senti ment, bv misrepresenting the action of this Convention and the individual mem bers of it, on the important question of suffrage. The issue has been raised and must be met. I deem it due to myself and to my constituents to meet it here and now, by correcting error when it has been unintentionally fallen into, and exposing falsehood when it has been knowingly resorted to. In the report of the Times I find the following: DISCRIMINATIONS IN FAVOR OF THE NEGRO AGAINST THE CAUCASIAN, ETC. The suffrage report was then taken up and occupied the remainder of the day. The Committee of the Whole adopt-d the majority report and reported the same to the Conventionl, in which body there was a lively debate, the ibmale suffrage, negro Suffrage and foreign suffrage questions all figuring largely, The latter of these was brought' iipby an amendment, offered by Judge Cody, to the first section} allowing all foreign male inhabitants of the State, at the adoption of the~ Constitution, to vote, the other restrictions, 331 DEBATES AND PROCEEDIINGS. 1321 APRIL 18, 1870. 1322 COiNSTITUTIOAL COXYITJOiN MONDAY, be submitted to the popular vote. Even this was refused. The people were to have no voice; and, driven to the wall, the brave representatives of the Anglo-Saxon race were, by numbers, compelled to submit. I will answer the last first. When the report of the committee was first submitted to this Convention, some weeks since, I then concurred in the propriety of submitting the proposition of extending the suffrage to the colored race, to a separate vote of the people. No one could at that time foresee the early settlement of a question which had so long disturbed the quiet and excited the passions of the nation. Important events took place in the interim. The fifteenth amendment to the Constitution of the United States, respecting which so many hopes and so many fears had been entertained, was passed upon and approved by the necessary number of States; the proclamation, announcing the fact that it had become a part of the federal Constitution, had been issued; and congress had under consideration the passage of laws carrying its provisions into effect. A settlement of the question had, in my judgment, been reached. It was no longer debatable; a higher authority than the Convention, a higher authority than the popular yote of Illinois, had passed upon it, and decided that suffrage hereafter, in all the States and territories of the union, should be without.discrimination on account of race or color. The requisite number of States, acting through their Legislaturesa, had, by te adopti on of the last amendment to the Constitution of the United States, decreed that by virtue of our federal relations, the question of suffrage was beyond the approval or control of the people of Illinois. When ratified, an amendment becomes a part of the Constitution itself, hevingall the binding force of the original articles. That instrument is the higher law of our governmental system. It is the supreme authority, which demands the first allegiance from the highest officer of government to the humblest citizen in the nation. No State can impair, alter or suspend its requirements; and were the mad atte mpt to be put forth on the part of any State, it would still remain the duty of the individual citizen to regard such authority as secondary, as nugatory and void, if in conflict with the provisions of the organic law of the federal union. I do not propose to make particular reference to the means employed in securing the adoption of this amendment. I do not conceive that it has any bearing on the question. We have at the present hour to deal with results, and not with the agencies engaged in this accomplishtment. The latter belongs to the historian, awather than to the legislator. The page that will tell of the deliverance of a race from political bondage, may possibly record how the heel of congressional despotism was planted upon the throat of popular liberty. But all this mattered not. The deed had been accomplished, and all that remained to be done was to bow to the inexorable logic of the event. The colored race, bv the ratification of the fifteenth amendment, had been enfranchised- a result to which.they had long been induced to look forward with hope-nd now that a realization of it has been reached,:I would not again deprive them of it, even if I could. as well as learn; many of them are ignorant of the English language, for they speak another language in the country from which they come. The title of American citizen is a title that no true man in this country is ashamed to assume. T he I rish, and the Germans, and the best elements of other nationalities, take it up on them with pri de and with pleasure, and are not in favor of the humiliating task being imposed upon them of tendering to the snobs of Europethe pretentious offsprings of a counterfeit aristocracy-the compliment of an honor ary citizenship, in a country they affect to despise. The negro himself has more respectability of character about him than to stoop to degradation so low and con temptible as this. As an attempt to humbug the foreign-born citizens, it must fail-they are too old birds to be caught with such miserable chaff. The attack in the Regis.iter is made upon different grounds. It has about it a good deal of the swagger of South Carolina, in olden times,which we all thought had been pretty badly licked out during the war. Every one familiar with the customs of the South is aware of tie fact that for any one to prate continually about the purity of his blood, is to raise the suspicion that there may be something of the African 4n thee eomposition of the gentleman after all. It is not, however, to the first part of the article, but to the latter part, that I desire to explain. If the assertions are correct- I ought to have voted with the illustrious nineteen whose names are to be engraven higher upon the pillar of fame than any other names in American history (with the exception, perhaps, of that of the editor of the Register). I will, probably, never again be offered immortality at so small a figure. I left my vote on the suffrage question to explain itself. Although a member of the Committee on $uffrage, I occupied but a few moments in the discussion. I left it to the gentlemien whost names I find on the roll of the immortal ni4eteen-a number that will be remembered when Tennyson's "Gallant Six hunn4xed" will be forgotten _the privilege of making the explanations they felt to be necessary. I [would soQt ask the privilege of explaining now, re it not for the misrepresentation avti^h appears in the columns of the palr Publishing the proceedings of the ~onuvtion, and is thus inve'sted with a scr~,ofs nmi.ofiiciavl authority. The fir~ statement I shall notice is the charge of barb~arism and qlegra~dation,urged against the colored race. The ans~wer to it I fia:~l in the next column of thay paper, in:which it is stated that in Olney there are bout fifteen "niggers,"< and that at the election:last week they all' voted~ ithe democratic ticket. There are tiwo other ~tatecents made in the article which I desire to notice. 'The first is,- - If the fifteenth amendment had~ been rattiled, it was by no Means necessary that our Constitution should be changed to comport ~with its requiremlent..:It dives -not follow, ~because negroes are Woke voters iby its adoption and ratification, that We should cihanlge ,our organic law. The second is, — ~TW~is shameful wrong was ~nOt, done without aastr~uggle. Right-heartedwen stood up and tprc~ested against it. They inisited that the people should be heard upon a question Bo m~uraeftous. They contended that it slhoui The amendment forms the last link in the chain of thos e m easur es w hich have been adopted by Congress for the restoration of the States lately in revolt. It is a part, and an important one, of a system of reconstruction which no one will attempt honestly to approve, in all its parts, but in the adoption of which, in my belief, it is the duty of all to acquiesce. The measures adopted for the restoration of the Southern States to their rightful position in the Federal Union, however unsound in principle, however unwise in policy or unchristian in spirit, are, after all, the only available means left by which the result sought to be attained may be even partially accomplished. Their inauguration, it may be, has brought evil upon one section of the country, and disgrace upon the legislation of the age; but their overthrow at this stage would not only increase the evil, but bring havoc and disaster,-irretrievable and final, upon the whole nation. I would not reduce again to ruin what has been at least partially built up, and spread havoc and confusion throughout the length and breadth of the land. Terrible would, in my opinion, be the responsibility which would rest on those who would disturb the peace which has been, in part, restored. In accepting, therefore, the reconstruction measures of Congress, I, for myself, took the question of colored suffrage as a part thereof. I was aware that there were those who did not consider the judgmert arrived at as final, and who, for that reason, asked the submission of the question to the people. I could not share their views. Granting that measures of an arbitrary character have been resorted to, to secure the adoption of the fifteenth amendment -and no one doubts this-to what source will we turn for redress? Is it claimed that an adverse vote of the people of this State will remedy the evil, and remove the binding force of constitutional obligation from us? The proposition is too preposterous to receive a passing consideration. No gentleman on this floor could for one moment assert, that the popular verdict of the people of this State would have any influence on the amendment, one way or another. It had become a question on which it was incompetent for them to pass. Their judgment, whatevex it might be, would have been of no practical importance, for it is not thue province ofa the people to construe the Constitution and laws of the United States. Admitting, for the sake of argument, that our people would record their disapproval of the provisions of the amendment, what would their disapprobation accomplish? Would it suspend the operation of that part of the Constitution in this State? I hold that we might with equal propriety contest by popular vote of the citizens of Illinlois, the right of our present chief magistrate to the presidential chair. There are those who claim that the vote of the Southern States was cast for him by force of the bayonet, yet, if this be so, what influence would the vote of the people of Illinois have upon that question? It would result simply:in exposing us to ridicule; yet we have as much right to unseat the president as to nullify ~he amendment. I could onl~y regard it as ridiculous on the part of any one to ask for submis i CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION MUONDAY, 1322 APRIL 18, 1870. DBAT AXI) 1'ROCP1)~XG. 1323 sion to the people, of the question in cide whether they would longer live un- on the one hand, and federal encroach cide whether they would longer live un der it. Such a position involves nullification. It would be the exercise of a right which is properly regarded as the last resort that of revolution. The people of Illi - nois are too loyal to the union of the States, even in view of the many-usurpa tions of congress, to tolerate such a thought for a moment. The submission of a portion of the Constitution of the United States must be regarded in one of two lights-either as a farce or as a tragedy. It is too late in the day to trifle with a question of so much importance. It is inculcating upon the minds of the people of this State a heresy, which it was to have been hoped the terrible results of the late war would have forever exploded, viz: That the authority of a State, or the action of its citizens under it, may be successfully op posed to the provisions of the federal Constitution, or the powe: s of the general government. We cannot have so soon forgotten th tt the experiment has been already tried-with what success, let the present condition of the States lately in re volt decide To-day, we find the once favored and prosperous people of the south in sackcloth and ashes, prostrate and oppressed. It was to have been hoped that the results of the war would,by removing forever from the minds of the American people theories so fraught with danger to their own interests and the stability of the federal union, have in time led mankind to look away from the victim of these theories, and to thank heaven for the sacrifice. If the fact has not been established, that the authority of the State is subordinate to the authority of the federal Constitution, then the blood that has been shed has flowed in vain. I regret to find that, in occupying this position for the first time in my life, I am found dissenting from the views of some gentlemen for whom I have had, and still entertain, the warmest feelings of firiendship that can animate the human breast, and whose opinions on political questions have always commanded my re spect, and at most times my approbation. In occupying the position I do upon the question of suffrage, I stand on democratic ground, and adhere to democratic priciples. In 1856, in the platform of the democratic party, adopted in national convention at Cincinnati, was engrafted the principle that the people of the States and territories possessed the inalienable right of forming their domestic institu j tions in their own way, subject only, but subject always to the Constitution of the United States. This principle formed the very corner-stone of the political fabric then erected. We are all familiar with results that followed. The people north and south, east and west, rallied under the democratic standard and ratified the principle as correct. to 1860, the democratic party divided upon it. The democracy of the north and west re-affirmed it, and nominated our late great leader upon it. The democracy of the south, aided by the few black s heep east and west, that are to be found in every flock repudiated it. Weakened with treason in its own ranks, and encountering a too powerful enemy on its front, the party fell, and with it fell the last barrier against anarchy and treason DEBATES AND) PROCE,-EDINGS. APRIL 18, 1870. 1323 sion to the people, of the question in controversy, as only being for the pur pose of political effect. It seemed to me an unpardonable pandering to the preju dices of the unenlightened. Were we to look to the courts for re dress? Was it certain that the question came within the jurisdiction of the high est court known to the American people? No one could decide that it did, and it must therefore remain a matter of the most extreme doubt, which the court it self is alone competent to decide, But granting that the case is one on which the supreme court had power to pass, was there any certainty that it would be carried there, or anything known as to the time at which it would be considered, or as to the decision that would be rendered? No one could say that it would be ever carried before that tribunal. The thirteenth amendment is of far more importaace than the fifteenth and fourteenth amendments. Many of the reconstruction measures' of congress, equally questionable and objectionable, have been nominally before the court for some years, but have not yet been and will never be decided. Some cases that have been carried there have t rried there —the legal tender act, for instance year after year, until the subject has al most been forgotten, the law having all the validity of law, as will the last amendment to the Constitution have all the binding force of the Constitution, un til, if ever, it is set aside. That it ever will be set aside, I have felt no expectation whatever. Revolutions, it has been said, never go backward. No one could presume that at any time in the future the amendment in question would be declared inoperative and void. It seemed fate's stern, unalterable decree. Congress, in the possession of the power, and unscrupulous in its use, would, if the exigency arose, so reconstruct the court as to leave undisturbed the question of reconstruction. In this view of the case, there was but one course, as an individual citizen, and as the representative of a constituency, left open for me to pursue-to acquiesce in the settlement of the suffrage question -a settlement which no power on earth will ever be able to reverse-which is final and decisive-it matters not what energy may be pult forth or what skill may be exhibited, or ingenuity be exSerted. The remanding' back of a race, long oppressed, but at last enfranchised, to a state of civil disability, would be a spectacle at which civilization would stand aghast. Tche African race has been Americanized. We cannot divest them of their citizenship, nor of its accompaniment} the ballot. The end had been reached, and although every one could decide for himself his duty under the circumstances, it remained for me to give to the last adopted amendment to the Ulited States Constitution the same obedience that I have always endeavored to ~ield to the originalinstrumlent. 'Holding this view, I could not concur in any proposition to submit to the people of the State the question of ex;tending the suffrage to the colored race. It would have been equally consistent in my view of the case, to have proposed a sub mission of the entire Constitution of the United States, to a popular vote, a fil hare had the citizens of Illinois de on the one hand, and federal encroach ment on the other. With this fatal warning of what a de parture from sound principle will pro duce, before our eyes, f cannot think that the democracy of Illinois will array themi selves in opposition to the Constitution of the United States. The seed sown by Douglas has taken too deep root in the hearts of his followers to admit of it. Be that, however, as it may, the platform of the party adopted in national Conven tion in New York city must remain the platform of that party until the re-assem bling of the democracy in another nation al Convention' It recognizes the Consti tution of the United States as the funda mental law, and it is not in the power of any gentleman or number of gentlemen to change it. No new shibboleth is to be presented as the test of party fealty. The democratic party, arousing itself from the benumbing influences of the past, cut loose from the putrid carcass to which it has long been joined, may rise, like a giant refreshed, and "rejoice like a strong man to run a race." It is for democrats to decide whether their old and honored party may once more become the governing power in the Union, or be reduced to the condition of the Bourbons in Europe-having nothing left but the remembrance of former great ness. The people of the whole nation, since the wild passions of the hour have subsi ded, are opening their eyes to the fact that principle, and not policy, must here after govern our public affairs. They re alize that we have, as a people, left the government of our fathers and wandered after strange gods. They are turning in despair from the party that has long controlled the destines of the nation. They are looking once more with hope to the old party which so long and so faithfully guarded the ark of public freedom. It is with parties as it is with individuals. "There is a tide in the affairs of men which, taken at the flood, leads on to fortune." To hesitate, to delay, is to let the golden opportunity forever go by. For any party to array itself against the federal Constitution, is to produce disruption, and disruption will produce dissolution-it will cause the death of any party-a death which will never have, and never ought to have, a resurrection. QUESTION OF PRIVILEGE, AGAIN. Mr. CODY. Mr. President: I rise to a personal explanation. I have not any prepared speech to mlake upon this subject, as I do not feel it necessary to make any explanation whatever il regard to my course upon this suffrage question. Thle attack of the State Register is an attack upon mle, as well as uponl the gentleman from Cook [Mr. Camneron], who has just resumed his seat. So tar as my vote upon that portion of the suffrage question referred to in the Register, is concerned, it was identical with his own, and 1 have no explanation to makte in regard to it, have no tenderness upon that subject whatever, care nothing about its effect upon me in the future, andw only have to say in regard to it, that I simply acquiesce ill the fact that the Constitution of the United States has settled this question, and that in our action here, we are at present bound thereby. So far as the other branch of the q~testion is concerned, it is due to myself to -~~~~~TTTOA O(/PTO MONAY on the Committee on Schedule, in place t of Mr. Billings, resigned. f t g f It e COUNTIES. Mr. CRAIG. I move the Convention resolve itself into Committee of the b Whole, to consider the report of the Committee on Counties. s The motion was agreed to. t So the Convention, as in Committee of , the Whole (Mr. Goodhue in the chair) proceeded to consider the report of the Committee on Counties. The following is the majority report of the Committee on Counties: s i ee t ARTICLE -. COUNTIES. f SECTION 1. No new counties shall be formed or established by the General Assem bly which will reduce the county or counties, - or either of them from which it shall be t taken, to less contents than four hundred square miles; nor shall any county be formed o' o less contents; nor shall any line thereof 5 pass within less than ten miles of any county seat of the county or counties proposed to t be divided. SEc. 2. No county shall be divided, or have any part stricken therefrom, without submitting the question to a vote of the people of th e county, nor unless a majority of all the legal voters of the county voting on the ques tion, shall vote for the same. SEc. 3. There shall be no territory stricken from any county unless a majority of the vo ters living in such territory shall petition for such division; and no territory shall be added to any county without the consent of the ma jority of the voters of the county to which it is proposed to be added. SEC. 4. No county seat shall be removed until the point to which it is proposed to be removed shall be fixed by law, and a majority of the voters of the county, voting on the question, shall have voted in favor of its re moval to such point * Provided, that in all cases where a county seat has been located fifty years, and in cases where a vote has been or may be taken to remove a county seat, and has been or may be decided in the nega tive, and a subsequent effort is made to re move to the same place, two-thirds of all the voters voting on the questlon shall be neces sary to effect the removal of such county seat. SEC. 5. The General Assembly shall pro vide, by a general law, for a township organ ization, under which any county may organ ize, whenever a majority of the voters of such county, at any general election, shall so deter mine; and whenever any county shall adopt a township organization, so much of thisu Constitution as provides for the management of the fiscal affairs of said county by the county commissioners, may be dispensed with, and the affairs of said county may be transacted in such manner as the General Assembly may provide. SEc. 6. Iu each county there shall be elected th e f ollowi ng cor ny county je founed Judge, county attorney, sheriff, county clerk, clerk of the circuit court (who shall be ex-offcsow recorder of deeds), treasurer, surveyor, and coroner, each of whom shall hold their respective offices for the term of two years, and uutil their successors shall be elected and Iqualified. In counties not adopting township organization, in addition the above officers, there shall be elected three county commissioners, who shall have charge of the fiscal affairs of the county. SEc. 7. The county board shall fix the compensation of all county officers, but shall not allow either of them more per annum than fifteen hundred dollars, in counties not exceeding twenty thousand inhabitants; two thousand dollars in counties containing twenty, and not exceeding thirty thousand inhabitants; twenty five hundred dollars in counties co~ntaining thirty, and not exceeding fifty thousand inhabitants; three thousand dollars in counties containing fifty, and not exceeding seventy thousand inhabitants; thirty-five hundred dollars in counties containing seventy, and not exceeding one hunded thousand inhabitants; and fbur thousand dollars in counties containing over one hundred thousand inhabitants-in addition to their necessary clerk hire, stationery, and fuel. All fees e or allowances by them received, in excess of their salary, shall be paid into the county treasury. SEC. 8. The fees of each class of county of fice rs shall be urniform threoughout the State. The co m pe nsation herein pro vided shall ape ply only to officers hereafter elected. e The following is the article reported by the mi no rity of the CoGmmittee on Counties: ARTICLE-. , SECTION 1. Wh enever two-thirds of the e legal voters of any territory of any county or of the contiguous territory of two or more f counties, containing n ot less than t wo hun dred and fifty s qua re miles, and of inhabi tant s n o t less than eight thousand, shall pe tition the General Assembly that they desire to form a new county,accurately setting forth and describing the boundaries of such new county, the General Assembly shall, by act, ' provide and establish said territory as a new X county: Provided, That no territory for the purpose of forming a new county, shall be 1 taken from any established'county, which will reduce it to a less size than four hundred square miles. SEc. 2. The General Assembly shall pro> vide, in all acts creating new counties, requir ing that the in habitants thereof shall pay their just proportion of all existing debts of the county or counties out of which such new county or counties may be formed. SEC. 3. All territory which may be stricken * off from any organized county, for the pur pose of forming anew county, shall, during t its unorganized state, be and remain a part of the county or counties from which it was originally taken, tor all purposes of county or State government, until otherwise provided by law. SEC. 4. No county seat shall be removed until the point to which it is proposed to be removed shall be fixed by law, and of the legal voters, voting at any election for such purpose, shall have voted in favor of its removal to such point. Mr. VANDEVENTER. Mr. Chair man: I move the report be taken up and considered by sections. The motion was agreed to. AMr. CRAIG. Mr. Chairman: I would state that quite a number of petitions were referred to this Committee upon Counties, after our report had been pre sented to the Convention, which I will send up to the clerk so that they can be reacd or considered, as the committee may direct. The CHAIRMAN. The question is upon the adoption of section one of the report of the Committee on Counties. The Clerk read section one, as follows: SECTION 1. No new county shall be formed or established by the General Assembly which will reduce the county or counties, or either of themn, from which it shall be taken~ to less contents than four hundred square miles, nor shall any county be formed of less contents; nor shall any line thereof pass within ICess than ten miles o~f any county seat of the countyr or counties proposed to be dirided. Mr. CROSS. Mr. Chairman: I miove to amend section one, as follows: Strike out of third and fourth lines the words, "nor shall any county be formed of less contents." Mr. ]ELDREDGE. Mr. Chairman: I move to further amend, as follows: Strike out the remainder of the section contained in the fourth and fifth lilnes. The CHAIRMAN. The question is upon the motion oxf the gentleman from LaSalle [Mr. Eldredge], to amend b~y strikink out "nor shall any line thereo~f pass within less than ten miles of any county seat of the county or counties proposed to be divided.' Mr. VAN DEVENTER. Mr. Chairman: Would not the motion of the gentleman from Winnebago []~r. Cross] take precedence? say that I offered the amendment which ] did, in the utm o st good faith. I vot ed for it in good faith. I am willing t3 vote for it t o day, t o -morrow, all the t ime, ia good faith. I do not think that the language used by the gentleman from Cook [Mr. Cam eron], is in good taste, when he asserts upon the floor of th is Co nvention, that amendments are not offered in good faith but with a feeling of hostility to the ac tion of the committee reporting this ar ticle. If he alludes to the amendment which I offered, I have only to say that it was simply intended to place the intelligent foreigners of this State precisely where they were placed by the, Constitution of 1848, which the gentleman says was a democratic instrument, made by demo cratic hands. And in offering that amendment, I said this, which I repeat, and am willing to stand by forever: "It seems to me, sir, that it is certainly due to the foreign population that shall be in the State at the time of the adoption of this Constitution, that we shall not dis. criminate against them in favor of the negroes in regard to the right of suf frage." I repeat again, sir, that I offered the amendment in good faith, that I voted for it in good faith, and that I believe every gentleman who cast his vote for it, did so with honest intentions and a strong desire to do justice to our foreign population. And I am willing to stand by this record so long as I shall live. I feel no tenderness upon this subject, and will therefore take up no further time of the Convention by any explana tion in regard to my personal course up on the question of suffrage. RESOLUTIONS FOR ADOPTION. The PRESIDENT. Propositions for adoption are in order. ADDITIONAL MEMBERS OF COMMITTEE. Mr. CODY, Mr. President: I have a resolution which I wish to offer. The Secretary read the resolution of fered by Mr. Cody, as follows: Resolved, That the President of this Con vention be requested to appoint four addi tional members of the Committee on Revision and Adjustment. Mr. CODY. Mr. President: I desire simply to say in explanation of that reso lution, that quite a number of the mem bers of the committee are likely to be de tained at home by sickness in their fatal: lies, and other causes; and in order to make the committee as efficient as possible as we desire to go immediately to swork), t seems necessary that additional foree hould be given us. I have taken the number <'four," so bat the whole number shall be thirteen. t is not probable that the whole number ble to attend upon the meetings of the ommittee will exceed the original num: er appointed by the Chair. The resolution offered by Mr. (Codgy was greed to. COUNTIES. Mr. (CROSS presented the petition of four hundred and nine citizens of the counties of Winnebago, Kane and Ogle, upon the subject of counties. The petition was referred to the Committee o)n Counties. xrroInTrrr. NT oN COMMITTEE. The PRESIDENT. The Chair desires to announce the appointmentwef Mr. Wall isl CONSTITUTIONAL COXVFNTION MONDAY, APs 18 1a0 EAE iD RCEIG.1 Mr. SEDGWICK. Mr. Chairman: I ter accommodated by being permitted to understood the gentleman from LaSalle changle from one county to another. [Mr. Eldredge] moved to amend by strik- By the amendment I piopose, in regard ing out further words from the section. to this insignificant portion of territory, The CHAIRMIAN. The Chair does I hope the interests of counties represent not understand it to be really an amend- ed on this floor will not be affected, but ment to the amendment. that this proposition may receive support. Mr. ELDREDGE. Mr. Chairman: Mly Mr. F'PRINGER. Mr. Chairman Let intention was to amend the motion of me ask the gentleman-his amendment the gentleman from Winnebago [Mr. proposes, I believe, to authorize the Gen Cross]. eral Assembly to remove two townships The CHAIRMAN. The motion then from any county without submnitting the is upon the motion of the gentleman from question to a vote of the people, and to LaSalle [MIr. Eldredge], to amend the attach those two townships to another motion of the gentleman from Winnebago county,-has he anything in his amend [Mr. Cross]. ment which would prevent the next Gen The motion of the gentleman from oral Assembly from slicing off two more Winnebago [Mr. Cross] was to strike out townships, and the next General Asserm from the thirtieth and fortieth lines, "nor bly from doing the same, until they take shall any county be formed of less con- away the whole county? tents." Mr. CODY. It is possible, and I think The amendment to the amendment true, that the amendment is open to that strikes out, in addition, the balance of objection. But I will prepare a further the section. amendment, which will obviate the diffi The amendment to the amendment was culty. not agreed to. Air. ABBOTT. Mr. Chairman: I think The CHAIRMIAN. The question re- it will be conceded I have not much im curs upon the amendment offered by the portuned or intruded myself upon this gentleman from Winnebago [Mr. Cress], deliberative and honorable body; hence to strike out the words,nor shall any I claim the right, and with your indul county be formed of less contents." gence, I respectfully rise to further ex The amendment was not agreed to. press the sentiments in regard to the mi Mr. TINCHER. Mr. Chairman: I nority report, which I had the honor to move the adoption of the section. present to this Convention, some weeks Section one was agreed to. ago, at the same time when the majority The CHAIRMAN. The question next report on counties was off,ered by the is upon section two. member from Knox county [MAr. Craig], the The Clerk read section two, as follows: chairman of the Committee on Counties. SEc. 2. No county shall bedivided or have The minority report does not combat any part stricken therefrom, without submit- all the positions of the majority report ting the question to a vote of the people of on counties. My principal objection to it the county, nor unless a majority of the legal is voters of the county, voting on the question, he adoption and dplcatg of the shall vote for the same. first and second sections of article seven, Mlr. CODY. Mr. Chairman: I de- on counties, which reads thus: sire to move an amendment to this see- SEc. 1. No new county shall be formed or tionto this eect: strike out the words established by the General Assembly, which tion-to this effect: strike out the words, will reduce the county or counties, or either "any part," and insert, "more than seven- of them, from which it shall be taken, to less ty-two square miles;" so that it will read, contents than four hundred square miles; "no county shall be divided, or have [nor shall any county be formed of less conmore than seventy-two square miles tents]; nor shall any line thereof pass within less than ten miles of any county seat of the stricken therefrom, without submiitting I county or counties proposed to be divided. the question," etc. n section two it reads: T know that any attempt to change In section two it reads this section will meet opposition at Are* No county shall be divided, or have any this sect ion will meet opposition at first, part stricken therefrom, without submitting and I therefore ask the attention of the the question to a vote of the people of the committee for a moment to the reasons in county, nor unless a majority of the legal vofavor of this amendment. ters of the county voting on the question There are, in all parts of the State shall voterforthe same. small localities that would be better ac These two sections completely close and commodated by being permitted to do shut out all possibility and way to estabtheir business at points other than where lish new counties, except by a majority it is now transacted; where, if the ques-' vote of the county or counties from whose tion of change could be submitted to large territories new counties may and them, and to the county to which they are could be established for the benefit of the to be added, there would be no question people, in the various sections and localiwhatever as to the change being made., ties of our rich and extensive State. It I make this seventy-two square miles is well known, by past experience, that equal to two townships. Every person the attempt to get or obtain a majoriknows it is impossible, except under very ty vote from a-a old organized county, in peculiar circumstances, ever to make order to establish and organize a new changes in county lines, under the pres- county out of all, or a part, of its large ent Constitution; and the peculiar cir territory (though not infiinging or encumstances surrounding cases where it is eroaching on a territory of the old estabpossible, are such as generally render it lished and organized counties of four hunimproper that it should be done. The dred square miles) is almost useless. question must be submitted to a vote of Nearly all former applications for an both counties. Now, no county will vote equitable and lawful partition have any portion (however small) of its terri- been abortive and impracticable, betory away. The people can always be cause of the effective and practical inappealed to in regard to the question of fluence and interest of the propertaxation so as to prevent the voting away i ty holders at the numerous county seats of any, even the smallest portion of ter- throughout our State-combined with the ritory. Yet there are places all over the never-tiring and the indefatigable indusState where small districts would be bet: try and self-interest of all county offie-w 332 holders of the extant counties. No mat ter how large and extended the counties of our State may be, the great trouble, difficulty, extra expense and inconvenience to those citizens who have their homes and farms at long distant and remote lo calities fronm their county seats, is of small note to these interested parties. A deaf ear is unjustly turned to their true and pitious complaints. Let the gentlemen of this Constitution al Convention place themselves in the identical position of their fellow citizens at the extreme limits of their county bor ders, and at a distance from their county town of twenty or forty miles; let each gentleman suppose himself to have una voidably got into a law suit, or other im portant business that may require the presence of himself and from five to twcnty witnesses at the county seat, where justice is expected to be adminis tered on a certain and appointed day. The weather may be inclement, the roads impassable, the distance to your court of justice twenty, thirty, or, it may be, forty miles, yet go yowl must, and all your wit nesses, at great expense, suffering in mind and the fatigue of body, and all this be cause, and only because your home is at such a great distance from the place you are bound to visit. It does appear to me that the desire to do equal right and justice to all the peo ple, in all the counties in the State of illinois, should be the paramount duty and intention of every honorable member of this Constitutional Convention, and by so changing the wording of the first and second sections in article seven, on coun ties, as before quoted, by omitting the clause in section first, "nor shall any coun ty be formed of less contents," that duty will be performed. Section two ought also to be changed, because it is a radical hindrance to those citizens who have a right to lawfully help themselves, and they can only attain such right through the medium of this Con vention. It is my understanding that the people, in various sections of the State, have vainly attempted a remedv. They have had territory sufficient to lay out a county of good proportions, and by that means they would be convenienced and could, by not having to travel so many miles to their counts town, attend court and be at home every evening with their xgami. lies; thus avoiding a great expense, and at the same time enjoying the happiness of hence at s~ight. This was not to be. Some (ot these citizens got up petitions for a majority of the people of the county to sign, so as to enable the proscribed citizens to organize a new county. Did they sueced in their much needed object9? AlasX no. The needy petitioners are refused the names of their fbllow-citizcns, in the central and densely populated part of their county-and why is this? It is because the first and second sections, of article seven, on counties, gives judgment in favor of monopoly and proscrip. tion by constitutional enactment. Hence the people at the remote parts of their large counties had no hope of equal jutstice until the assembling of this Constitutional Convention, which revived their drooping hopes of justice to their wanlts, by the enactment by this Convention of a fulndamenta~l law, in the Constitution of the State of Illinois, enabling the people, with sufficientn territory therefor, to organ DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. AP.RIL 18, 1870. 1325 132;)NTTTOA ~iY~iO OD who are so unfortunate as to be settled in the confines of their large counties. Sir, were I to predicate my advocacy of the minority report upon the special advantage and benefit of this or that town, locality or county, I should be worthy of, and meet with the well-merited indignation from my honorable and patriot-c constituents. No, sir; I have no such small and sordid schemes and interests to advocate or advance. I despise, abominate and repudiate all selfish special legislation as unjust, repulsive and repugnant to the best welfare of the whole country, when exercised under any sophistical plea whatev quiring that the inhabitants thereof shall pay their just proportion of all existing debts of the county or counties out of which-such new county or counties may be formed. SEC. 3. All territory which may be stricken off from any organized county, for the purMpose of forming a new county, shall, duri ng its unorganized state, be and remain a part of the county ies fro m which it wa s originall y taken, for all purposes of county or Stat e government, and until otherwise provided by la w. SE~C. 4. No county seat shall be removed until the point to which it is'proposed to be removed shall be fixred by law, and - -of the legal voters voting at any election for such purpose, shall have voted in favor of its removal to such point. Mr' SCHOLFIELD. Mr. Chairman:What is the question before the committee? The CHAIRMAN. The question is upon the amendment of the gentleman from DuPa~ge [Mr. Cody]. The Clerk read the amendmnent offered byr Mr. Cody, as follows: Strike out the words "any part," and insert "more than seventy-two square miles," so that it will read: "No county shall be divided, or have more than s~eventy-two square miles stricken therefrom, without submitting the questior," etc. Mr. CODY. Mr. Chairman: I wish to add the following words to my amend:nent: ;,Add to end of section, "and no county shall be reduced to less contents than four hundred square miles." Mr. SCHOL:FIELD. Mr. Chairman: The principle embodied in the amendment of the gentleman from DuP~age [Mr. Cody], if I correctly understand it, is upon its face manifestly unjust. Why shall a majority of the voteisof the county to which additional territory is to be added, be required in favor of the addition, while at the same time the 'county from which the territory is taken is denied a vote uinon the question?9 As the gentleman explains his ameindment, he proposes that a majority of the voters residing in the territory which it is proposed to be taken from one county and added to another, shall vote in favor of the proposition, and a majority of the voters of the county to which the territory stall be added, shall also vote in favor of the proposition; but the voters of the county from which the territory is to be taken are not to be consulted at all. The effect of taking taxable property, er. I would here impress on the minds of this honorable body that the great object of my solicitude and appeal is not for removing and relocating county seats. No; my intention is to witness by the action of this Convention an effective, enabling clause. The truth is, there are gentlemen from several counties in our State who have communicated with and called on me, to consult with me about their disadvantages and trouble in consequence of their isolated situations, of their vassalage and bondage to the county towns of large counties, by means of the arbitrary and despotic sections in ar-e tide seven on counties. Thus, having sympathy, as I have said before, with' and for these my fellow-citizens, I consider it my duty and obligation to submit to this honorable committee my minority report on counties, which I hope may become a part of the constitutional law of the State of Illinois. Mr. Chairman, I speak it no~t in the shape of a threat or menace, but, should this committee refuse )r fail to originate a general, legal and practical avenue to those who have melancholy and expensive cause of complaint, should their crying grievance fail to meet a proper re.Aaedy by efficient action of this committee, it will be a just cause for their opposition to and non-ratification of the new Constitution. I repeat, justice and the equality of rights demand the abrogation of all existing laws which are in conflict with the equal rights of man. oar. Chairman and gentlemen: For the respectful hearing and attention you have accorded me, please accept my thanks. Hoping the justice and truth of my appeal in favor of our ostracised and truly complaining fellow-citizens may meet with a successful response from the memb ers composing this honorable Convention, I now call for the reading and consideration of the minority report ond counties. The Clerk read the article reported by the minority of the Committee on Counties, as follows: ize n ew counties, by the right of a twothirds vote of all the voters reliving in the territory, as suggested in sections o ne, three and four, in the coninority r eport on counties. Those sections meet the wants and necessities of the parties concerned, and do not make it obligatory upon them to beg and pray their bitter opponents' so grant a right or privilege which they have no moral or just claimns to exercise. They also provide that, in -forming newt counties, it shall not be com. pulsory or lawful to fix upon four hundred square mniles, more or less, as a legal boundary to said new county. Sir, 1, in sympathy with myr fellow citizens in all and every part of our State, whc have true caulse of complaint on aeGcoUnt of the legislative restriction, al— ready -noticed, make an honest appeal to the justice, generosity and magnanimity of every honorable member of this Con.stitutional Convention, and ask the adoption and passage of the four sections of -the minority report on counties. Mr. Chairman, I advocate the justice, -the truth and integrity of the minority ~report, on the broad and extended platform of justice, necessity, economy, and 'equal rights to all our fellow-men in every county and locality of our noble State of Illinois. Sir, I should feel ashamed of myself, and recreant to the — rights and lawful interests of nmy fellow,men, and also the trust and confidence imposed upon me by thee generous and confiding people of Scott counaty-who sent me here as their humble and reliable representative, did I not so do. I do not take this position becaulse the county of Scott is seeking to remove the county seat to another locality. Not because the people of mny county wish or desire to divide or partition the same. ,No, sir., All the people of Scott county reside at a convenient distance from W~inchester- the county seat, so that they Lcan, if they so wish, visit the samle, and return to their homes the same day. We are contented with the present dimenIsions of our county. I well remember that about thirty-one or thirty-two years ago, the countv of ,Scott suffered and labored under a similar difficulty and privation as others who have vainly attempted to establish for themselves new counties, from the pres and oher oididand ngeneous eel-ARTICLE -. src,fo n oa as,salbcm SzCTION 1. Whenever two-thirds of the legal voters of any territory of any county, or of the contiguous territory of two or more countics containing not less than two hue-, dred and fifty square miles, and of inhabita nts not less than eight thousand, shall petition the General Assembly that they desire to form a new county, accurately settieg forth and describing the boundaries of such new county, the General Assembly shall, by act, pro,vidc and establish said territory as a. new county: Ilrovided, that no territory for the purpose of forming a new county, shall be taken from any established county, which will reduce it to a less size than four hundred square miles. SEC. 2. The General Assembly shall provide in all acts creating new counties, re CONSTITUTIONAL COj-NVENTiON MONDAY, 1326 APRIL 18, 187Q DEBATES AXD PROCEEDINGS. 1327 there is nothing left to cut off, and the old county has become extinct. Nothir,g under the form of law could be contrived, in my judgment, which could offer a higher premium to those speculating in real estate at the expense of their neighbors, than this amendment. By it county seats may be changed, rings may be formed in small localities to re move county seats or change county lines, so as to add value to their real estate and injure that ofthose in the present county seats, while the whole people of the new ly formed county must be taxed for new county buildings and improvements, or to pay the amount of resulting dam ages. There is no system of speculation, per haps, that tends more to induce fraud in elections, demoralization in society, in security in the value of property, or un certainty in the forms of government, than these movements; yet this amend ment opens the way for the perpetration of frauds like these in every county in the State. As this amendment proposes only to serve two or three particular cases, and as a genernl rule is to be laid down, by which a few persons are to be benefited, and the whole of the people greatly in jured, I suggest to these gentlemen that they draw up a section, to be placed in the schedule, providing for their particu lar localities, fixing it up to suit them selves. If it is to benefit them without injury to others, I am williug they should have the benefit, but I am not willing to have the entire State thrown into per petual confusion by such a constitutional provision. County seats will not be substantial, county governments will not be secure, the county interests of the people, to an extent too broad and dangerous, will be in the haLds of the General Assembly, subject to the influences of cliques and rings, while the masses of the people, who have to bear the expense of all these movements, will not be consulted. Their money will be voted away, and their rights affected by acts in which they will have no voice. I hope the amendment will be rejec ted. Mr. BROMWELL. Mr. Chairman: If I understand this amendment, I think the end of cutting up counties would never come, if only the people to be cut off are to vote. The.county from which the slice has been tiken will still have an edge, and the people along the edge will always want to be in the centre, and they will agitate for a further slicing; and as nobody votes on it but themselves g of course they will vote for it. They will go on slicing off the four sides of every county, making new counties. After each such operation, they will begin again; and this will not stop until the counties are so cut up, diminished in size, and increased in number, that there would be five hundred counties in Illi. nois. This might occur within ten years. One cannot go anywhere on any county line between two counties, but the people would jump at the chance of forn~ing a new county. Every election would be carried upon that question, and new counties would be formed, not only where now talked of, but everywhere. That would then leave the lines in exactly the o same condition; for the people on the people at all should be taken. In what ever course we determine to adopt, there should be that degree of justice and con aistency which all honest minds will ap prove of. Mr. WAGNER. Mr. Chair man: If the question is susceptible of further amendment, I desire to offer the follow ing at the end'of the section. The Clerk read the amendment offered by Mr. Wagner as follows: Add at end of section two the following: "except when county boundaries are de scribed by the sub-divisions of townships, in all such counties the legal voters thereof, may, by a two-thirds vote, attach themselves to an adjoining county." Mr. WAGNER. Mr. Chairman: I would simply remark that in a few in stances there are counties in the State whose boundaries are described by town ship lines. In a number of such cases I know that the people of certain districts are exceedingly anxious to attach them selves to adjoining counties, not only for conveniences relating to county purposes, but on account of school matters. It complicates school matters where coun ties are under township organization. I think that would work no injustice to any one. It requires a two-thirds vote. Mr. CODY. Mr. Chairman: If the gentleman will examine my amendment he will find that his does not meet the object he has in that connection. Mr. WAGNER. Mr. Chairman: That has just occurred to me. I will there fore withhold my amendment for the present. Mr. VANDEVENTER. Mr. Ch fir man: This is a question of considerable importance, and it is environed by nu merous difficulties, and I am not disposed to believe that this Convention can de vise any means by which all the difficul ties mav be avoided. I cannot say that I am decidedly in favor of either of these reports-either the majority or the mi nority report. It is useless to stand up here and say that if this majority report be adopted, any portion of the territory of any county will ever be cut off. And as I cannot in dorse either of these reports, I feel con strained to support the amendment of the gentleman from DuPage [Mr. Cody], though it is not completely suited to my views. I do think there ought to be som~ething done by which portions of a county may be stricken off. In a large coun,ty it is often inconvenient for the people to go to the county seat. I amn in favor of forming small counties out of very large counties, and as the amendment of the gentleman from DuPage [Mr. Cody] points in that direction, I shall give it my support. Mr. SPRINGER. Mr. Chairman: I have only a word to say. As I look upon the amendment of the gentleman from DuPage [Mdr. Cody], it seems to me that it opens the way for endless confusion and fraud. It proposes a systemn whereby every county in the State may be changed, whereby countyv lines may be altered, or new counties be formed without consulting the-people immediately interested. The General Assembly may, at one session, strike off two townships from a counts and attach them to another co~unty; at the nest, or any subsequent session, it may take off two other townships, and so continue the slicing operation untib edge would stilt want to lay out new counties, and so on down, unless it might be that the constitution al limit of square miles would finally stop thissub-division. It would leave every county that had a few townships to spare over this consti tutional limit of square miles, subject to this agitation. It would give the county itself no opportunity to vote-only the people to be cut off; and they always want to be cut off. We might just as well issue the order at once, and cut them off, Mr. HAINES, of Cook. Mr. Chairman: I offer the following amendment. The Clerk read the amendment offered by Mr. Haines, of Cook, as follows: But the portions so stricken off, and added to another county, or formed in whole or in part into a new county, sball be holden for and obliged to pay its proportion of the in debtedness of the county from which it has been taken. Mr. CODY. I accept the amendment. Mr. ROSS. Mr. Chairman: I move that the debate close upon the amend ment, and that we now take a vote. The motion was agreed to. The CHAIRMAN. The question is upon the amendment of the gentleman from I)uPage [Mr. Cody.] A division was ordered. The committee divided, when the amendment was not agreed to. Mr. WHEATON. Mr. Chairman: I think there was not a quorum voting up on section one, and I would inquire if there is a quorum voting upon theamend ment or not. The CHAIRMAN. According to the ruling, it makes no difference whether there is a quorum voting or not, if there is a quorum present. Mr. WHEATON. That has not been the ruling heretofore when I have been present. When the gentleman from Cook [Mr. Hayes] was in the chair, in Committee of the Whole, he refused to accept a vote because there was not a quorum voting. Mr. SEDGWICK. Mr. Chairman: It has been held of late as the Chair states, that if there is a quorum present, all are not obliged to vote. Mr. WHEATON. I think, Mr. Chair man, any member of the committee has a right to call for the vote of a quorum. The CHAIRMAN. The Chair will be obliged to sustain the ruling that has prevailed for some time, Mr. WAGNER. Mr. Chairman: I now' offer my addition to the section. The Clerk read the addition offered by Mr. Wagner, to section two, as follows: Add to the end of section two, the followng: "lxcept when county boundaries are discribed by the sub divisions of townships, in all such counties the legal voters thereof may, by a two-thirds vote, attach themselves to an adjoining county. Mr. WAGNER. Mr. (Chairman: I think this amendment of mine is not open to the objections urged by the gentleman from Mvadison [Mr. Springer], and the gentleman from Coles [Mr. Bromwell], against the amendment of the gentleman fromn DuPage [Mr. Cody], as it leaves the question open to two thirds of the people, and will hlave no force in any case except where the boundaries divide counties. Mr. MERRIAM.; Mr. Chairman: It will be simply a premium for adjacent townships to be perpetually in a fenmen. about attaching themselves to other col~t ties. I hope the amendment of the g6 APP.IL 181 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1327 1328 OOSTIT UTIOXAL ()OYENTION MoRAY, any established county, which will reduce it to a less size than four hundred square miles. Mr. CARY. Mr. Chairman: The com nmittee have just refused to strike out the amendment of the gentleman from Win nebago [Mr. Cross]. Now, this section proposes indirectly to reinstate that which we refused to strike out, thus making one section conflict with the other. Mr. McCOY. Mr. Chairman Mr. WHEATON. We voted to cut off debate. Mr. McCOY. I propose to offer an amendment to the substitute. I suppose it is in order. I wish to make the sub stitute as perfect as possible before it is presented. The CIHAIRMAN. The Chair believes it is not in order. ["Question," "Question."] Mr. McCOY. Mr. Chairman: When would it be in order so that the substi tute can be amended? The CHAIRMAN. If it cannot be amended while under consideration, it cannot be amended at all. The question is on the adoption of the substitute of the gentleman from Scott [Mr. Abbott]. Mr. McCOY. May I not present an amendment to that proposition? The CHAIRMAN. The Chair undeI stands not. The question is on the sub stitute. Mr. McCOY. May I ask another ques tion? By what rule of this body is it not in order? Mr. TINCHER. I object to a gentle man's getting all his information from the Chair. [Laughter]. Mr. McCOY. May I ask what the ob jection of the gentleman from Vermilion [iLMr. Tincher] is based upon? The CHAIRMAN. From its slight acquaintance with parliamentary rules, the Chair will feel it necessary not to answer any more questions. Consequent ly the motion will be put. Mr. McCOY. This is not a material amendment; and I only suggest to the gentleman who proposes it, that inasmuch as the proposed substitute makes it ob ligatory on the Legislature to form a new county in the event of a certa.in vote be i ng taken, he use the word "may," instead of "shail"-"the Legislature may form a new county." I do not wish the Legislature to be tied down in that matter. I want to leave a little discretion with the Legislature. Mr. ELDREDGE. Does the Chair hold that this proposition is not susceptible of amendment? The CHAIRMAN. That was the dec ision of the Chair; but the Chair is willing to hear any suggestion. Mr. ELDREDGE. I believe it has been stated by the President of the Convention [Mr. Hitchcock] that when a proposition is before the Committee of the Whole it is always subject to amendment. There was an amendment to the amendment to adopt section two of the majority report; that was voted down. Then a substitute was offered by the gentleman from Scott [Mr. Abbott]. I cannot see the impropriety of amending: that substitute..osadf it is in order, I desire to remove the apparent inconsistency- j The CHAIRMAN. Whether or not it would have been in order, at ihe proper time, it certainly is not now, as a division has been called for, and the question partly taken upon the substitute. tleman from Carroll [~ir. Wagner] will not prevail. Mr. WAGNER. There are very few such cases, Mr. Chairman, and wherever they do exist there s eem s to be an imper ative necessity for something of the kind. The CHAIR~IAN. The question is upon the amendment of the gentleman from Carroll [Mr. Wagner], to section two. Mr. HAINES, of Cook. Mr. Chair - man: There seems to be the same diffil culty concerning t his as concerning the amendme nt of the g entleman from IDu Pag e [Mr. Cody]. Th e propo sitio n is to allow these frac tions to pass off from existing counties to new ones without being obliged to pay their debts. They will be absconding debtors, absolutely. The Clerk read the addition to section two, proposed by MIr. Wagner, as follows: Except when county boundaries are de scribed by the sub-divisions of townships, in all such counties the legal voters thereof may, by a two-thirds vote, attach themselves to an adjoining county. The amendmen t was not agreed to. The CHAIRMAN. The question is upon section two. Mr..VANDEVENTER. Mr. Chair man: I understood the gentleman from Scott [Mr. Abbott] to offer an amendment as a substitute, viz: the first section of the minority report. The CHAIRMAN. The Chair did not understand him to make ac-.y such motion, but simply to request at the conclusion of his remarks that the minority report be read. Mr. ABBOTT.,Ilr.-Chairman: I in tended to offer that first section, as a sub stitute. The CIIAIR?IvAN. The first section has been adopted already. Mr. ARCHER. It is the first section of the minority report as a substitute for section two of the majority report. The Clerk read section one of the mi nority report, as follows: SEa. 1. Whenever two-thirds of the legal voters of any territory of any county, or of the contiguous territory of two or more coun ties, containing not less than two hundred and fifty square miles, and of inhabitants not less than eight thousand, shall petition the General Assembly that they desire to form a new county, accurately setting forth and de scribing the boundaries. of such new county, the General Assembly shail, by act, provide and establish said territory as a new- county: t'rovided, that no territory for the purpose of forming a new county shall be taken from an established county? which will reduce it to a le~ss size than four hundred square miles. The CHAIRMAN. The question iscon the motion of the gentleman ~rom Scott [Mr. Abbott], to substitute article one of the minority report for article two of the majority report. M~r. DE-MENT7. As many gentlemen do not know what the question is, I would ask for a re-reading of the'minorityr report. The Clerk read section one of the minority report, as follows:w SEc. 1. Whenever two-third~s of the legal voters of any territory of any county, or of the contiguous territory of two or more colunties, containing not less than two hundred and fifty square miles, and of inhabitants not less than eight thousand, shall petition the General Assembly that they desire to form a new county, accurately setting forth and describing the boundaries of such new county,. the General Assembly shall, by act, provide. and establish said territory as a ne w county:5 P'rovided, that no territory for the purpose of forming a new county, shall Hae taken from SMr. ELDREDGE. Mr. Chair man: There was a misunderstandin g upo n the question p ending be fore the c ommittee. I believe the question sta n ds now just as if no vote had been taken. I wouid, if in order, move an amend men t ti o tsh s s ubs titute, as follows: Strike out "two hundred and fifty," in third line, and insert "four hundred." Mr. ABBOTT. Mr. Chairman: I ac cept that amendment. The CHAIRMAN. The'Chair decides[ that under the circumstances, it is not in order. The question is upon the adop tion of the substitute offered by the gen tleman from Scott [Mr. Abbott] for sec tion two of the majority report. Thie Clerk read the substitute offered by Mr. Abbott, as follows: SEC. 2. Whenever two-thirds of the legal voters of any territory of any county, or of the contiguous territory of two or more coun ties, containing not less than two hundred and fifty square miles, and of inhabitants, not less than eight thousand, shall petition the General Assembly that they desire to form a new county, accurately setting forth and de scribing the boundaries of such new county, the General Assembly shall, by act, provide and establish said territory as a new ceunty: Provided, That no territory for the purpose of forming a new county, shall be taken from any established county, which will reduce it to a less size than four hundred square miles. The substitute was not agreed to. The CHAIRMAN. The question is now upon the section. Section two was agreed to. The CHAIRMAN. The question is upon section three. The Clerk read section three, as follows: S,EC. 3. There shall be no territory stricken from any county, unless a majority of the voters living in such territory shall petition for suchdivision; and no territory shall be added to any county without the consent of the majority of the voters of the county to which it is proposed to be added. Mr. HtAINES, of Cook. Mr. Chair man: I move to strike out the section. It seems to me the same principles are involved in this as in the amendments that have just been voted down. It speaks only of a majority of the voters in the territory to be stricken off —not a majority of all the votes in the county from which a portion is proposed to be striken Gnff. Again, it is to be accepted upon a majority vote of the county to which it is proposed to be attached. In this way a cotunty might be dismembered without a vote of the people of the county. This is all wron.g. Again} sir, here comes in the principle of absconding debtors. Mr. KING#. M{r. Chairman: The gentheman's doubts might be obviated if he would read what has been adopted. Mr. HAINES, of Cook. Mr. Chairman: If they do not conform they should do so —there should be no double meaning in the organic law of the State. I move to strike out the third section. 1:he CHAIRMAN. The question is upon striking out the third section. The motion was not agreed to. The CHAIRMAN. The question is upon the adoption of the section. Mr. FUJLL:ER. Mr. Chairman: I move to amend by providing that.only a mat jority of those voting on the quebtion shall be necessary. Mr. HAINES, of Crook. Mr. Chairman: I want to add mny amendment to this} accepted by the gentleman from Du Page [Mr. Cody]. a I 1328 CONSTITUTIONAL'CONVENTION ATONDAY, DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. r the word "twenty" inserted, so that it shall read, as follows: Py trovided, That in all cases where a county seat has been located twen ty years, etc. e I make this motion, that the s ection may be consistent with the statute of iimy itation in re spect to the ho lding of real ) prop erty. Mr. McCOY. Mr. Chairman: I have a substitute for the section which I would like to have read. The Clerk read the substitute offered i by Mr. Mr. McCoy, as follows: No county seat shall be removed until the ' point to which it is proposed to be removed shall be fixed by law, and a majority of the voters of the county shall have voted for its removal to such point. Mr. SCHOLFIELD. There is already pending the amendment of the gentleman ~ from Boone [Mr. Hildrup]. This Convention, in Committee of the Whole, has heretofore repeatedly deter mined a substitute not to be in order until after all amendments to the original proposition have been disposed of. These decisions, I presume, were correct, and no reason is apparent why they should be now departed from. The CHAIRMAIN. The Chair pre sumes, upon reflection, that the gentleman is correct. Mr. CARY. This question, sir, of county seats is one upon which there is a great deal of feeling in the State, and I apprehend that many gentlemen are some what embarrassed as to what action they are to take upon the matter. We have sir, no county seat questions in Jo Daviess county, but still I feel that something should be done to prevent this endless agitation, which is not only em barrassing to the Convention but to almost every Legislature, and to the people of various counties. I do not, however, feel that it would be just to say that because a county-seat has been located twenty years, a majority of the people should not be at liberty to remove it, if circumstances should arise which would make it more convenient to a majority of the people to have it elsewhere. Now, sir, railroads and other means of transportation to various points are con — stantly changing, -and a county-seat located for twenty or fifty years, that may have suited two-thirds of the people for a long time, may, within any two years, become much less convenient than other points in the county. I rather like the m sbstitute of the gentleman from Whiteside [Mr. McCoy]. The objection to this is that it does not do away-with this con. stant agitation. I propose an amendment to the substitute, which is as follows: And in cases where a vote has been or may be taken, to remove a county seat, no vote shall be taken for —-years thereafter. -That is, after having once settled thle question, it shall not be agitated a-gaint for such a number of years, as the Cons vention may see proper. It is the principle, in our township organi-zation that a county having once adopted township organization, cannot act upon the question of returning so the old system for a certain number of years. xThat stops the agitation, and, it seems~ me, a principle of this kind is the rr just and equitable that could be adop Mr. ATKINS. Mr. Chairman: I msit that the amendment of the gentle from JoDaviess [Mr. Cary] is not i der. There are two amendments per I Mr. PARKER. Mr. Chairman: I offe n a further amendment. S- Add the following: "And that all count: , property be appraised, and that the territory aso stricken off from said county shall receive [ the pro rata value of said property." a Mr. CARY. Mr. Chairman: This I - conceive to be a correct principle, if the i amendment just adopted be carried into effect. If the majority of the people of a county allow a portion of their terri tory to be annexed to another county, . and a majority of the people of such other county vote to receive them, cer tainly I can see no justice in holding these people thus set off liable for the debts of both counties, as required by the t vote we have just taken. Suppose a portion of Sangamon county I should be set off and annexed to Logan c )unty, the county of Sangamon having , voted to let them go, and the county of - Logan having voted to receive them, the amendment of the gentleman from Ogle [Mr. Parker] provides that as we have decided that these people who have gone ; from the one county to the other shall be held for the debts of Sangamon county, they shall have their share of the prop erty of Sangamon county. Now, if there is justice in one of these proposi tions, there is in the other to offset it. But I think that both principles are wrong. It makes a confusion which is not required, which certainly can be of no advantage to either county, and I am therefore opposed to the amendment of the gentleman from Ogle [Mr. Parker], and also the amendment just adopted. But if the principles of that amendment should be carried out, I think the other is perfectly fair and legitimate as an offset. Still, I think both should be re. jected. Mr. DEMENT. Mr. Chairman: The principle proposed by the gentleman from Ogle [Mr. Parker], I thiiik is correct, but to avoid any difficulty, I would suggest that he qualify his amendment, so that the people leaving a certain county shall be credited with their pro rata part of the value of the property of that county. Mr. PARKER. Mr. Chairman: I would say to the gentleman that my amendment already conveys that idea, or is intended to convey it. The CHAIRMAN. The question is upon the amendment of the gentleman from Ogle [tMr. Parker.] p The amendment was not agreed to. The CHAIRMAN. The question nows is upon section three, as amended. Section three, as amended, was agreed Mr. ELDREDGE. Mr. Chairman:: believe the motion of the gentleman f ron Stark [Mr. Fuller] is unnecessary, for, un der the construction of the supreme court according to my recollection, only a ma jority of those voting has been required and the court has presumed, that when ques tion is submitt ed to a vote of the peo ple of a county or district, those registered as voters not appearing to have voted on the question, have either died or run away. Mr. HAINES, of Cook. Mr. Chair man: I offer an amendment to the amend ment of the gentleman from Stark [Mr. Fuller]. The Clerk read the amendment offered by Mr. Haines, f Cook, to the amendment offered by Mr. Fuller, as follows: But the portions so striken off, and added to another county, or formed in whole or in part into a new county, shall be holden for, and obliged to pay its proportion of the indebtedness of the county from which it has been taken. I Mr. FULLER. Mr. Chairman: I do not understand that that is an amendment to my amendment, though properly an amendment to the section, but not now in order. The CHAIRMAN. The Chair is of the same opinion. The question is upon the amendment offered by the gentleman from Stark LMr. Fuller]. Mr. CODY. Mr. Chairman: In the old Constitution, different language is used in the different sections, in the article on counties. The supreme court has passed upon one section, in the case of The people vs.' Warfield, 20th Ill. Reports, and it seems to have been the design of the Committee on Counties and Township Organization to conform the language of all the sections to that decision, that there may be no question raised in future. By the second section, just adopted, we have used the words "all the legal voters of the county voting on the question." In the fourth section, in relation to the removal of county seats, the committee say "a majority of all the voters of the county voting on the question." In the fifth section (which is the same reported by the Committee on Township Organi zation, with the addition of one word in the third line, viz: the word "voting,") the language of the report of that coma matter, which has been adopted by that Convention, is, "whenever a majority of the voters of such county, voting at any general election, shall so determine." To make this section accord with the others the amendment of the gentleman from Stark [Mr. Fuller] should be adopted I think. The Clerk read the amendment offered by Mr. Fuller, as follows: Insert after the word "vroters," in the third line, the words "voting on such question." A division was ordered. The committee divided, when the amen dme~nt was not agreed to. Mr. HIAINES, of Cook. Mr. Chairman: I now offer my amendment. The Clerk read the amendment offered by Mr Haines, of Cook, as follows:. Add to section three the following: "But the portions 60 stricken off1 and added to another county, or formed, in whole or in part, into a new county, shall be holden for and obliged to pay its proportion of the indebtedness of the county from which it has been taken." The amendment was agreed to. $338 to. The CHAIRMAN. The Clerk will read section four. The Clerk read section four, as follows: SEE 4. No county s eat shall be remov ed until the point to which it is proposed to be removed shall be fixed by law, and a majority of the voters of the county voting on the question, shall have voted in favor of its re- moval to such point: Provided, That in alli cases where a county seat has been located fifty years, and in case where a vote has been or may be taken to remove a county seat, and has been or may be decided in the negative, and a subsequent effort is made to remove to the same place, two-thirds of all the voters voting on the question, shall be necessary to effect a removal of such county seat. Mr. HILDRUP. Mr. Chairman: In the fourth hine of section four, I move that the word "fifty" be stricken out, and I 8 e e t ApRiL 18) 1870. 1329 I 1330 CONSTITUTIOXAL CONYENTIO MOXDAY, ing out from and including the word "provided"-the balance of the section. Mr. ATKINS. Mr. Chairman: The motion of the gentleman from Tazewell then takes precedence. The CHAIRMAN. The Chair so stated. The question is upon the amendment offered by the gentleman from Tazewell [Mr. Merriam]. The amendment was not agreed to. Mr. PARKER. Mr. Chairman: I move that the committee do now rise, report progress, and ask leave to sit again. The motion was not agreed to. The CHAIRMAN. The question is upon the amendment offered by the gentleeman from Boone [Mr. Hildrup.] Mr. CARY. Mr. Chairman: I call for a division of the question. The CHAIRMAN. The question is susceptible of division. The question then is first upon striking out fifty. The motion was agreed to. The question being on the motion to insert twenty, a division was ordered. The'committee divided, when the motion was agreed to. Mr. CHURCH. Mr. Chairman: There seems to be some hesitancy in the committee about applying the two-thirds vote. It has been spoken of as in conflict with the principles of republican government. Sir, it extends through our whole system, but is only applicable to a reversal of some fixed principles. Take the fundamental law of our Union, and it requires the concurrence of three-fourths of the States to change or control it. In regard to our State Constitution, a twothirds vote of the members of the General Assembly is required to propose an amendment or call a Convention. As applied to the case of a veto, when a check is given by an executive veto, we propose to require a two-thirds vote of both houses to remove that check. As I understand, this principle is applied here in a similar case. A county seat is established, and has been for twenty or fifty years. It is required that there shall be something more than a majority to disturb it. I see nothing in the proposition that interferes with the broad principles of republican government, that a majority should make the laws. I have, from former experience, fIrmed the opinion that there should be some check on this agitation of county seat questions. It has been a sourceof much annoyance to the General Assembly, and one great cause of this constant agitation has been this power of the General Assembly to engage in special legislation. One of the checks sought to be created by the legislative article which has been adopted by this Convention, is the prevention of the enactment of special laws hereafter, providing fo~r locating or removing county seats. That would seem a sufficient check to guard against mnconsiderate legislation, providing that any improperly influenced majority might remove an established county seat when in fact it ought not to be removed. If the state of things should arise suggested by the gentleman from Jo Daviess [Mr. Cary]; if there should be great changes in the concentration of population, if necessity should require the removal of the county seat, that necessity should be great enough of course to secure something more than a mere major The CHAIRMAN. The Chair understan ds t he substitute is wi thdrawn. Mr. McCOY. I do not with dr aw it. The CHAIRMAN. The question is upon the amendment of the gentleman from Boone [Mr. Hildrup]. Mr. MERRIAM. OIr. Chairman: I think that every gentleman upon this floor has learned from his constituents that the people of this State are not in favor of the principle adopted in section forty-four of the legislative report before the recess, which declares that two thirds of the voters of any township or county xhall be necessary to authorize subscripticys to railroads. I think all must have learned that the attempt to insert in this Constitution the idea that a majority of the people are,jot to control in this State is odious to them. This section provides that after a county seat has been located fifty years, it shall take two-thirds of the voters of a county to remove the county seat. NOow, county seats are simply places where the business of the county is transacted, and I.hold that they should be controlled by a majority of the voters. I would move, Mr. Chairman, while upon the floor, to strike out all after the -word "provided," in the third line, including "provided." The CHAIRMAN. Does the gentleman move it as an amendment to the ;amendment? Mr. MERRIAM. I move it as an amendment to the amendment. The CHAIRMAN. The question is lpon the amendment offered by the gen%tlexma-n from Tazewell [Mr. Merriam] to the amendment offered by the gentleman 'from Boone [Mr. Hildrup]. -The gentleman from Boone [Mr. Hild,,up] moved to strike out fifty and insert t~wenty. The gentleman from Tazewell ,-[Mr. Merriam] moved to amend by strik ity o f the votes. The people may be equally balanced or nearly so upon the subject, and yet some undue influence may turn the scale. It may be done by the use of capital; for this matter is sometimes made the subject of private speculation. Interested persons combine their capital and establish a paper city, and then make use of their capital in order to obtain laws and votes of the people to conform to it. A little check upon this, I think, does no harm. It occurs to me that the check given by the legislative article, by providing that no special legislation shall be passed upon that subject, is proper. That, I think, will be all that is necessary. Counties of this State, will, of course, never consent to the enactment of a generr 1 law that may operate as a hardship upon any of them, but all such enactments will have to be made by general law, and all action on the part of the counties in regard to removing county seats, will have to be taken in conformity to these general-laws. Without applying the two-thirds principle, I believe that would afford a sufficient check to this business for the fature. Yet, I for one have no objection whatever to applying the two thirds principle in any case where it is proposed to interfere with long established principles and usages, or with fixed property or fixed laws. Mr. SCHOLFIELD. Mr. Chairman: I move to amend by inserting after the word "to" in the sixth line the words, "any point within three miles of." The reason why I move this amendment~ will, upon reflection, be obvious. Under the section as originally presented by the committee, the purpose of this clause might very readily be defeated by the laying out-of a new village adjoinin-g to the one to which it had at a. former timne been attempted to remove a county seat, and calling it by a new name, though in fact not materially changing -the point upon which the previous vote had been taken. In this manner a county seat contest might be perpetuated for many years, without any substantial change in the points. I apprehend that by inserting these words which I have proposed, it will prohibit removal of the county seat, not only to the same identical point, but also to any other point which would be substantially the same, unless two-thirds of the voters are in favor of it. If this portion) of the section is at all imlportant, it should be made so as to have a practical and real) and not a.merelyr niominal efficacyr. Mr. ARCHER. Mr. Chairman: I should like to hear the amendment stated again. Mr. SCHOLFIELD. I propose to amend in the sixth line by adding after the word'-to" the words "any point within three miles of."J Mr. WAGNER. Mr. Chairmlanp ~I. move that the committee rise, report pro gress, and ask leave to sit again at two o'clock. The motion was agreed to. CONSTIT-UTIONAL CONVENTIOIN IVIONDAY) 1330 to the section, and a substitute, and now he proposes to offer another amendment still to the substitute. MR.CARY. Iofferitasan,amendment to the substitute, which I submit is in order. The CHAIRMAN. The Chair has acted on the precedent established herethat the amendment to the substitute is not in order. Mr. CARY. I think the Chair is n,)t quite correct. If the Chair still adheres to that decision, then I appeal. Mr. UNDERWOOD. I think it was decided early in the session, that the friends of the proposition have a right to perfect it. Various amendments must first be disposed of, and the original proposition be perfected. Mr. McCOY. I can take the sense of this Convention on the principle involved in the substitute, by withdrawing it for the present, and moving that all after the word "Provide,!" be stricken out of the section. Mr. ATKINS. I would like to know what is the question before the committee. I understood the gentleman from JoDaviess [Mr. Cary] to appeal from the deci sion of the Chair, and tbat-the last motion made-has not been acted on. Mr. CARY. I agree with the gentleman from St. Clair [Mr. Underw-od] that the friends of a proposition have the right to perfect it. Before the substitute is voted upon, I have the right to amend ADJOURN3,IENT. Mr. SHARP. Mr. President: I move this Convention do now adjourn. The motion was agreed to. So the Convention (at twelve o'clock and ei- hteen minutes) eojourned. 9 APR L 8 80DBTSA - RCEJG.1 stitution is to interfere for the benefit of the people, with the exercise of their natural rights. We, by the Constitution we are making, impose prohibitions upon the people in every department of the government. It certainly is no more important that the people should be allowed to vote up on a question of removing a county seat than that they should be allowed to vote upon the question as to who shall be their officers. Yet gentlemen who make use of these arguments, all voted to im pose restrictions upon the people in the election of their officers. We have in the executive, legislative and judicial depart menits of the government, each, provided that men shall not fill the offices therein provided unless they possess certain pre scribed qualifications, whether the peo ple want other men not possessing them to fill them or not. We have also pro vided that certain officers shall only be allowed to hold their offices for one term, notwithstandinlg the voice of the people may be unanimous for the re-election of these same men, term after term. We have limited the power of the peo ple to tax themselves for municipal pur poses. We have put a limitation to the rate per cent. of taxation, beyond which they shall not go. Why? Gentlemen say because there is danger that the peo ple will impose upon themselves burdens which they cannot bear. If it is proper and right to impose limitations upon the power of taxation, when that power is to be invoked only by those who are to be the sufferers from it, is it wrong to im pose limitations for the preservation of peace and quiet, and the prevention of strife? - There should be some way to terminate these unhappy controver sies. I have known of no more violent or lasting quarrels than those arising from attempts to remove county seats. They permeate every interest of the county, from the highest to the lowest; they leave their smoldering embers, long after the contest itself is settled, In a county cursed with a quarrel of this kind, not a single county officer from the greatest to the least, can be elected; not a bridge can be built; buildings for county purposes cannot be erected or repaired; scarcely can the necessary appropriationus to keep paupers, or meet the ordinary or current expenses of the county government be made, without en countering, at each step, this monster of discord. In such cases, the question is not, is the thing itself right or wrong, blut is, will it benefit this party or that party, this interest or that interest? Now, sir} much better would it be for every citizen in the county, in my judgment, that the countylseat should be arbitrarily fixed and mlade irremovable, than that these quarrels should be left to exercise their baneful influences upon the county year after year, without limitation. It does not work any hardships to citizens removing to a county after the county seat is established, that the county seat is not precisely where they want it, for the reason that they buy their property with reference to that State of facts, ~It; as suggested by gentlemen, changes in the centers of trade and business may arise, then two-thlirds of the population should certainly become interested in and vote for the removal. To leave it as it's they should at any time, come to the con clusion that the county seat serves the interest of the people better in any other place than wbere established, it should be the absolute right of the people of that county, by way of its popularly ex pressed will, to remove that county seat, especially when the people of that county shall have expressed at the ballot box, that they are willing to take it to some other part of the county. I accept the proposition the gentleman has proposed [Mr. Tincher], and thus we prevent continual agitation upon this question; and I believe it does not com port with the dignity of this honorable body to interfere with the domestic insti tutions of the several counties of the State, and say that the people of the sev eral counties shall not be judges of the proper places of holding their courts, but shall be fettered and tied down to county seats which do not convenience the best interests of the people. The CHAIRMAN. The question now is on the amendment of the gentleman from Vermilion [Mr. Tincher], to the substit te of the gentleman from White side [Mr. McCoy]. Mr. McCOY. I have accepted the gen tleman's proposition, and it becomes part of the substitute. Mr. TINCHER. Mr. Chairman: I am not particularly interested except for the general welfare. To place a question of this kind in such a condition that the people can only reach it by a two-thirds vote, I do not believe is right. Neither is it right to leave the question open, that it may be constantly harrassing the people of any county. I think this objection will be met by this amendment accepted to the old Conristitution granting themt the power to vote upon removal every ten years. The business centers of counties change, and the interests of people who do business at the county seat are very frequently changing on account of railroads and other causes; but while their interests in a certain locality may change, they may desire to have their county buildings, court house, etc., there, and I am not against the right of the people to do what they please where they alone are to be affected by their own action. They have a right to regulate their own domestic institutions. according to their own notions, subject to the Constitution of the State of Illinois. And I want that Constitution left liberal enough that the people shall not be trammeled in their rights or interests, as to saying where they shall have their county seats located. Mr. SCIIOLFIELD. Mr. Chairman: It occurs to me that the amendment of the gentleman from Vermilion [Mr. Tincher] to the substitute offered by the gentleman from Whiteside [Mr. McCoy] would provide tor periodical elections, on the removal of county seats at just about the proper time to keep up a constant agitation upon the question in those counties where there is a disposition to wrangle about their location. I do not agree with those gentlemen, who in their arguments insist that this is a question that ought to be left to be determined at all times, and without restriction or limitation, by a vote of the mejority of the people, and that we, in attemptiog to impose restrictions, are violating some great principle of popular government. The very'office of a'Con COUNTIES. Mr. CRAIG. Mr. Presid ent: I move that the Conaention do now resolve itself — int o Commit te e of the Whole on the subject o f counties. The moti on was agreed to. So the Convention, as in Committee of the Whole (Mr. Goodhue in the chair), resumed the consideration of the report of the Committee on Counties. The CHAIRMAN. The question is upon the amendment offered by the gentleman from Clark [Mr. Scholfield.] The Clerk read the amendment offered by Mr. Scholfield, as follows: Insert in the sixth line, after the words "removed to," the words, "any point within three miles olf." Mr. TINCHER. Mr. Chairman: I would like to have the section read as it would be with the amendment. The Clerk read section two, as amended, and with.the amendment offered by Mvr. Selolfield, as follows: SEc. 4. No county seat shall be removed until the psoint to which it is proposed to be removed shall be fixed by law, and a majority of the voters ol the county, voting on the question, shall have voted in favor of its removal to such point: Provided, that in all cases where a county seat has been located twenty years, and in cases where a vote has been or may be taken to remove a county seat, and has been or may be decided in the nelrative, and a subsequent effort is made to renlove to any point within three miles of the same place,two-thirds of all the voters voting on the question shall be necessary to effect a removal of such county seat. The amendment offered by Mr. Scholfield was agreed to. Section four, asamended, was agreed t s t t s 1 c r APP. I L 18, 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1331 AFTEIZ.ZYO O-N SESSION. MONDAY, Apfil 18, 1870. The Convention met at two o'clock, P. m., and was called to order by the President. to. The CHAIRMAN. The question is now upon the substitute of the gentleman from Whiteside [Alr. McCoy.] The Clerk read the,-ubstitute offered by Mr. -liccoy, as follows: No county seat shall be removed until the I)oitit to which it is proposed to be removed ,hall be -fixed by law,'and a majority of voters of the county shall have voted"in favor of -ts removal to such -point. ,Ur. McCOY. Mr. Chairman: I offer this substitute from the fact that the old Constitution has been acquiesced in for tlic last twenty-two years,and because I am opposed to anything which goes toward iestrainidg the popular majorities in this ,Government. I believe the true genius of our government is that the majorities of the people shall be heard and shall govern upon all questions with reference to- 11 life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.'.' I believe, sir, that the county property in the county seats of the several counties is not the property of aDv particular town of any county in which it is located, but is public property. The Jails, court houses, and all property of that character is the property of the counties ot the State; and inasmuch as they are the property of the entire peo ple, the people of the respective counties have the right- in a popular majority, to say at any time where the county seat shall be taken to any part of the county hey deem proper. The pople are the only parties who are interested in the question; and if 1g2 COXSTITUTIOAL COVXTIO MONDAY, our Legislature to build this magnificent superstructure called the "new State house." In order to locate forever the county seat at a particular point, they will, as at Carlinville, Macoupin county, go into the erection of such a building as will almost ruin the county. To avoid these two evils-the not making substantial public buildings, on the one hand, and on the other the erecting buildings far beyond legitimate bounds, it is desirable that county seats should be permanent as practicable. As intimated, of all questions, these county seat questions are most sinister and corrupting. They produce more frauds than any other, in elections. I well recollect the removal of the old county seat, from Kaskaskia, Randolph county, which was also once the seat of government of this State. There was a contest for removing the county seat to Chester, at one end of the county, on the Mississippi river, and to Sparta, on the other side of the county, adjoining St.Clair. With the usual skill in manipulating vo ters, those interested sent over to Sparta persons from St. Clair and Washington counties, and from Perry county, as my friend from Perry[Mr. Wall] will remember, and polled at Sparta almost three times the usual number of votes. They had their runners from Chester to watch the proceedings at Sparta, and as soon as it was ascertained what they were doing at Sparta, Chester, being on the Mississippi river, chartered two steamboats, sent them over to Missouri, to St. Mary and St.Genevieve, got Missourians tocome over to Chester, and thus beat Sparta at her own game. Now, such things are corrupting. Such results are unsatisfactory. In that case, the result was so unsatisfactory to the honest men about Sparta, and to all the better classes of the citizens of the county, that, although the county seat was changed by fraud, the people were so disgusted with the thing, that they have not had the face to come to the Legisla ture and ask that the question of the county seat be submitted to the people again. I am quite confident that similar frauds have been practiced, although, perhaps, not to the same extent, all over this State. I should be highly gratified, if, instead of this proviso, which helps somewhat' to avoid an evil, we could put in a proviso that no county seat should be chang ed, except by a two-thirds vote But we S must do the best we can. I shall not vote to continue the provision of the old Constitution (which has been so much abused), even with the slight improvement proposed by the gentleman from Vermilion [Mr. Tincher], but prefer the proposition of the committee, as amend The CHAIRMAN. The question is upon the adoption of section four. Section four was agreed to. Th e CHAIRMAN. The Clerk wi ll read section five. The Clerk rea d s ection five, as fol lows: SEc. 5, The General Assembly shall pro vide, by a general law, for a township organi zation, under which any county may organ ize, whenever a majority of the voters of such county, at any general election shall So deter-mine; and whenever any county shall adopt a township organization, so much of this Con stitution as provides for the management of the fiscal affairs of said county, by the county commissioners, may be dispensed with, and the affairs of said county may be transacted in such manner as the General Assembly may provide. Mr. CRAIG. Mr. Chairman: Section five of this report was adopted w hen the report of the Committee on Township Organization was adopted. I therefore move that it be stricken out. The motion was agreed to. The CHAIRMAN. The Clerk will read section six. The Clerk read section six, as follows: SEC. 6 In each county there shall be elect ed the following officers: County judge, coun ty attorney, sheriff. county clerk, clerk of the circuit court (who shall be ex-o,flcio recorder of deeds), treasurer, surveyor and coroner, each of whom shall hold their respective offi ces for the term of two years, and until their successors shall be elected and qualified. In counties not adopting township organization, in addition to the above officers, there shall be elected three county commissioners, who shall have charge of the fiscal affairs of the county. Mr. SEDGWICK. Mr. Chairman: I move to amend section six, as follows: Insert after the word "whom," in the third line, the following: "Shall enter upon the duties of their offices respectively, on the first Monday of December after their election, and they-A" Mr. Chairman, I suppose there is not a member here who, if his attention is called to the subject, will not be in favor of this amendment. There is no provision by law, under the present Constitution, which defines the time when county officers shall enter upon the duties of their office. Consequently, it has been left for them to make such arrangements as they could. I think there has been a general adoption of the custom that has prevailed with county officers in Cook county, which I understand to be, to change on the first Monday of December, after their elec. tion. Still there has been no law to this effect, and this amendmnent simply fixess the time when they shall change offices, viz: the first Monday in1 December. ["Questionl!" "..Question!"] The CHAIRMAN. The question is upon the- motion of the gentleman from DeEalb [Mr. Sedgwick]. -The Clerk read the amendment offered by Mr. Sedgwick, as follows: Insert after the word "whom," in the third line, the following:' Shall enter upon the duties of their offices respectively, on the first Monday of December after their election, and The amendment; was agreed to. Mr. VANDEVENTER. Mr. Chairman: In the executive department there is a provision for State Superintendent of Public Instruction. We also have in the counties the office of superintendent of public schools. This section would not provide for his election. I would there. ibre move to insert after S~e words "court now, is a temptation to fraud and out rages on the ballot box, in consequence of a high state of public feeling. in such cases a majority vote is exceedingly un satisfactory. It may not be real-if real, it may be unsubstantial and temporary A mere transient man, here to day and there to-morrow, may turn the tide. The men of property and su bsta ntial interests in the county may be in the minority by reason of a transient, floating vote. This may be well illustrated by refer ence to a number of counties-among others, the county of Gallatin. The county seat of that county was at first es tablished at Shawneetown; afterwards removed to another point, then back again to Shawneetown; and the question of its removal is still being agitated. The most beneficent statutes on our law books are the statutes of limitation. These are made, not because the rights of parties are changed by lapse of time, but because it is better that there should be an end to litigation and strife, than that they should be encouraged and per. petuated. If it be a correct principle in matters between individuals, then why may it not be also in cases of this kind? Why, if we apply it in our statute of limitations, is it not just and proper in a case of this kind? It seems to me, with all due deference to gentlemen who think differently, that the principle is correct, and should be enforced. Mr. UNDERWOOD. Mr Chairman: I fully concur with the gentleman from Clark [Mr. Scholfield] in the necessity of making the present county seats as permaanent as practicable. I have known questions agitated in local elections and Lekislatures. At every General Assembly since the adoption of the present Constitution, the Legislature has been harrassed by speculators and parties interested in sites of supposed towns and cities, and on projected railroads-the endeavor being to put old county seats on wheels and roll them off to some place where these interested parties expect to be benefited by such change. Such persons command a pernicious influence, not only in the Legislature, but before the people. To avoid one evil, we have provided in the legislative article that county seats shall only be located or removed by general law. But general laws might be so framed as to be broad enough to cover a particular case, for which the Legislature would otherwise devise a special act. In a new country it is to be expected that county stats will be changed from time to time until the counties become populous. But when a State like Illinois has become tolerably well settled.in most of the counties, it is desirable that the county seats should not be afloat. In the first places we should have good, substantial court-houses and poor-houses, and good jails and other public buildings. But where the county seat is not firmly settled, county officers not living at the county seat will be exceedingly chary about making the necessary expenditures for the proper buildings. They will not build such permanent and substantial structures as ought to be erected in all counties in the State. On the other hand) a class of county officers interested in or living about the old county seats may be moved by selfish impulses that induced ed. ["Let the substitute be read."] The Clerk read the substitute offered by Mr. McCoy, as amended by Mr. Tincher, as follows: No county seat shall be removed until the point to which it is proposed to be removed shall be fixed by law, and a majority of the voters of the county shall have voted in favor of its removal to' such point, and it shall not be oftener submitted than once in ten years. The CHAIRMANI. The question is upon the substitute offered by the gentle. ma n from Whiteside [Mr. McCcy]. The substitute was not agreed to. 1332 CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION IIONDAY) DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. line the words "their respective," and in sert'his" in lieu thereof; and strike out the letter "s," in offices, in same line. The motion was agreed to. Mr. WASHBURN. I move to strike the word "shall" out of the second line, and insert the word "may." It is almost impossible to say what the requirements of these officers or the la bors of these offices may be ten or fif teen years hence, and I apprehend it would be much better to leave the mat ter to the Legislature. No injury will result to the public from allowing the Legislature control of this subject. oMr. ATKINS. I wish to offer an amendment to the amendment of the gen tleman from Williamson [Mr. Washburn]. In the third line Lwish to insert, after the words "ex officio recorder of deeds," the words "except in all counties having ithirty thousand or more inhabitants." The object of my amendment, Mr. Chairman, is that in counties having as many as thirty thousand or more inhabitants the Legislature may have the right to divide the offices of the circuit clerk and recorder of deeds. It is well known that in quite a large number of counties (my own, Morgan, for one), where these two offices are combined in the same incumbent, the officer holding the position is paid a very large compensation; and it seems to me that there should be a discretion allowed the Legislature to exercise of dividing the offices where the public interest may render it necessary and the people to be affected demand it. Mr. UNDERWOOD. Mr. Chairman: I am sure the people of St. Clair county expect the Convention to give the Legisl ature the power to divide the offices of clerk and recorder of deeds. It will be much mere satisfactory to give the Legislature the power to do that. eIMr. WASHBURN. M-r. Chairman: I rise to a question of order. I believe thie amendment offered by the gentleman fronl Morgan [Mr. Atkins] is an independent amendment and not germane to the amendment I proposed. I am willing, however, to vote upon his amendment after mine has been disposed of. Mr. A [KINS. Mr. Chairman: I am not at all particular on the subject. Mfy amendmen:t seems to be to the saime point. Mr. ROSS. Mr. Chairman: I am in p plined to the opinion that if the committee look through the entire report and conclude to adopt the subsequent sections of the report, they will come to the conalusion that there is no necessity of making the amendment proposed. It was pretty thoroughly considered and discussed in the committee. If we conclude to pay our county offiters a salary, then the fewer officers we have the better for the interests of thed county. If there is business enough for two men they have only to furnish a clerk, which can be done at five hundred to six hundred dollars per annum, and all the surplus over and above the salaries of the officers and the expense of the clerk hire will go into the county treasury. By the provisions of this article, in counties where clerks now get $10,000 or $12,000 per year, they would get $2,500 or $3,000 for their services, and all the surplus r would go into the county treasury under the direction of the county board. There is no propriety in paying our county officers $8,000 or $10,000 per year, when the SEC. 24. There shall be elected in each of the counties of this State, not under township organization, three officers, who shall be styled "the board of county commissioners," and who shall hold sessions for the transaction of county business as shall be provided by law. SEC. 2.5. At the first election of county judges, under this Constitution, said commissioners shall be elected, one of whom shall hold his office for one year, one for two years and one for three years, to be determined by lot; and every year thereafter one such officer shall be elected for the term of three years. The CHAIRMAN. The question is on striking out the last clause. The motion was agreed to. Mr. VANDEVENTER. Mr. Chairman: I move to strike out of the fourth 334: I I I I APIZIL 18, 18'i 0. 1333 ty clerk" the words "superintendent of schools." The Clerk read the amendment offered by iN!r. VaDdever,.ter, as follows: Insert after the words "county clerk" in second line, the words "superintendent of schools." Mr. WHITING. IVIR. Chairman: The reason why county superintendent of schools-was not insprted by the committee in this report, was that the machinery for public education is not entirely fixed and certain in the minds of the friends of education. Even in the older States, frequent changes are going On. In the State of New York, there was, formerly, a county superintendent to each county. Now I believe there is a superintendent to each election district. An(I the Commit-' tee on Counties are of the opinion that inasmuch as this matter of public education is a changiDg'thi,.,,g, and the public mind is not ertirely fixed on what is the best machinery, it is better to leave the office in the hands of',-he Legislature. I would Dot have much objection to there bei,-jg fixed in tllc — Coiist-'Itution, a countv superintendent fcr each county, except, from the fact that in the lifetime of the Constitution, it may l,e necessary to make some changes, to give greater efficiedcy. Thal', I believe is the reason why this office was omitted l)y t:ie Committee on Counties. A division was ordered. The committee divided, wl-ied, there bei,,-g thirteen in the affirmative and twenty-two in the Legative, the amendmiant offered by 31r. Vondeventer was not agreed t,.). Mr. ENGLISH. iNIr. Chairman: I move to strike out in the second line the words "county attorney." My understa,,dirg is that, in the judicial article, the election of a county attorney is settled, and t)-iere is no necessity for mentioning him in',-,his article. For this reason I move to strike out these words. The amerdinel-,t was agreed to. 31r. WHEATON. Mr. Chairman: I move to strike out the last clause of that section for the reason that we have already adopted in Commiatee of the Whole on the judiciary article, two sections upon the question of county commissioners. They more properly belong to the article j iidges of the sapreme court and governor do uot get half that amount. I am in hopes that the amendment will u(,t be made, for that reason. It will be beneficial to the interests of the county to have but one officer, and in large counties they will take the surplus and put it into the c-)unty treasury, which will be a saving to each of these counties of about $2,000 per annum. Mr. WASHBURN. Mr. Chairman: I an,i not yet convinced of the impropriety of my amendment, and I do insist the true theory of republican government to be, that the people elect their officers; and to accumulate business in an office so that officers are overburdened, or necessitated to appoiut deputies or clerks, is improper. The true theory of government is, that the people should choose their own officers, and in as far as this may be done, I thilk it ought to be done. It is true, where one particular kind of businesssay the duties proper of a circuit clerkwill require the attention of one officer, business may increase so as to require more than one, add, in that case, would requre a deputy or assistant clerk, because the duties of the office cannot be separated. But if one man cannot do the whole du. ty assigned to the office of circuit clerk, the duties of that office should be divided -the recording business taken out arcl another office created. If the recordiDDI of deeds, added to the proper duties of clerk, be onerous for the circuit clerk, then the people should have an cp. portu-nit.y to choose their recorder of deeds, rather than that the recorder should be chosen by the circuit clerk. I would like to see this Constitution left so that such a separation of duties, if demanded by the increase of business, might be made. It should be left at the option of the Legislature. Mr. ATKINS. Mr. Chairman: In reply to the suggestion of the gentleman from Fulton [inir. Ross] who seems to assume that there is an aiatagodism between m. y amendment and the proposed sectiod,, would sa' that there is really no antagonism whatever. Section seven relates to -,alaries; this has reference to offices and their proposed division. There is nothidg that is proposed either by the gentleman on my left 133w co~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ STITUTIO~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~AL CO~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~WI~~~~~~~N~~~~~~iO~~~~~~~~ MORAY,~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ to get competent men all over the State, and in order to get competent men, we must pay reasonable compensation. It is not certain that the proposition will be adopted, which requires the officers to pay their receipts into the county treasury over and above a certain sum. Mr. RICE. Mr. Chairman: I am inclined to think that the amendment of. fered by the gentleman from Williamson [Mr. Washburn], which has been adopted, leaving the matter to the Legislature, is the safest measure after all, and I think I shall vote against the amendment before the committee. Mr. UNDERWOOD. Mr. Chairman: I am not sure whether'may," in this connection, means "must" or not. Where duties of officers, or proceedings of courts, are referred to, the words "may" and "must" mean about the same thing, practically. Now, sir, in the smaller counties, the two offices could very properly be blended, in order to get a reasonable compensation, and induce competent men to take the office; but in other counties where the compensation is double what the judge receives, the offices should be separated. I hope, sir, we shall not have such a state of things as existed in the State of New York not many years ago, where a judge of the supreme court resigned his office, and took the place of his clerk, thus getting about three times as much money by working with his fingers, as he had before been allowed for working with his brains. I think that these officers should be paid reasonably; but it is utterly impossible to carry out this idea of paying officers a certain sum out of the fees that they receive, requiring them to pay the balance into the treasury. I apprehend that nct much balance will get there. We had a law in Illinois years ago, that docket fees and jury fees should be collected and paid over by the clerks of the circuit courts into the county treasury; but I never heard of much getting there, on account of negligence of the officers. They will not collect over and above the amount of their compensation. I hope the committee will allow those offices to be separated in counties having over forty thousand inhabitants. The CIIAIRMAN. The question is upon the amendment of the gentleman from Shelby LMr. Wendling], to the amendment of the gentleman from Morgan [Mr. Atkins]. A division was ordered. The committee divided, when, there being twenty-seven in the affirmative and thirteen in the negative, the amendment was agreed to. -- Mr. WELLS. Mr. Chairman: I move that the committee rise, report progress, and ask leave to sit again. I make this motion for the reason that a dispatch in the hands of the President of the Convention announces the death of a member of the Convention-the Hon. Charles Emmerson. A colleague of the deceased member has prepared resolutions in reference to the melancholy event, and desires to offer them to the Convention. It seems to me, sir, that it is proper that the Convention give a little time to an occasion of this character, rather than prolong the debate until the moment before the usual time of adjournment. I hope the motion may be adopted. The motion was agreed to nem. co uii being undisputed, it follows necessarily that we should adopt something that will tend to do away with, or put it in the power of the General Assembly to do away with, this evil in the future. I submit that there is nothing in these amendments antagonistic to what is submitted in the report of the standing committee, as embodied in section seven. The question being on the amendment offered by Mr. Washburfi, it was agreed DECATUR, April 17, 1870. To the Springfield Journal: "The Hon. Charles Emmerson, member of Constitutional Convention, died last [Saturday] night. 2 TV... COSTITUTIONAL CON'VENTION .AIONDAY) 1331 DEATII OF HON. CHARLES EMMERSON. The PRESIDENT. The Chair is in receipt of a dispatch that is undoubtedly authentic: 1. R. MOSSER." It was received from a relative of deceased, and for that reason the Chair regards it as unquestioi)ably authentic. Mr. HARWOOD. lylr. Pre4ident: On the strength of the announcement just made, I desire to offer the fC)IIOWiDg resolutions: Resolved, That this Convention has heard with deep sensibility, the announcement of the death of Hon. Charles Emmerson. delegate from the fortieth district. Resolved,. That as he was distinguished for his virt,:nes in private life, his intelligence and patriotism as a citizen, his popularity and eminence as a jurist, therefore, in his decease the State has lost a wise and prudent statesman, the bar an eminent and efficient jurist, and this Convention an able counselor. Resolved, That we sympathize deeply with his family in their great loss. Besolved, That these resolutions be eiatered upon the journal, and that the Secretary be instructed to transmit a copy of the same to his family. Resolved, That out of respect to the memory of the deceased this Convention do now adjourn. Alr. President: I feel myself ircompetent to do justice to the hioh merit and character of the degeased; and althouoh Judge Einmerson was my colleague, I shall leave it with others who were better acquainted with him than myself, and who are better able than myself, to use laDgUage worthy of this solemn occasion, and of the solemn subject which, while in the midst of our ordinary duties, is so suddenly brought to our attention. He was my colleague, yet I never saw him to know him personally, until I met him in this Convention. The fortieth district is composed of four counties; and while his residence was in MacoD, the most southern county of the district, mine is in Champaign, the most northern one; and having myself resided in the district only some three or four years, I never had the pleasure of any personal acquaintance with him until I met him here in SpriDgfield at his room, in a very feeble state of health, soon after we first convened. I had known him, however, for quite. a number of years before, by reputation, as an eminent jurist, a most excellent circuit judge, and a man held in great esteem by all who spoke of him. When I came here as a farmer, inexperiedced in ublic life I de ende to. The Clerk read the amendment offer ed by Mr. Atkins, as follows: Insert after the word "deeds" in third line the following words: "Except in all counties haviiagchirtv thousand and more inhabitants.,) Mr. RICE. Mr. Chairman: I offer the Following amendment to the proposal of the gentleman from Mor-aan rMr. Atkins]. I move to insert "twenti'fivj" in place of '.thirty." If the proposition is a good one'that is nearer the correct population than thirty thousand. Mr. SEDGWICK. Mr. Chairman: I hopethat theamendmentof thegentleman from, Montgomery [Mr. Rice] will not prevail. In a county of only twentyfive thousand people, tb c work will be so divided up as to spoil both offices, and neither will be good for anything. It will be so in nay county, I am sure. The question being on the amendment offered by Mr. Rice to the amendment offered by Mr. Atkins Mr. CODY. Mr. Chairman: I ask for .a division of the question on the amendment offered bv the Gentleman from Mor [Mr. Atkins], to strike out the word "thirty" and insert "twenty-five." I ask a division, so that we may first vote on the question of striking out. The CHAIRMAN. The Chair does not understand that that would be in order, rom the fact that th-at number - has not been inserted. There is no number yet .inserted to strike out. The question is on the amendment of the gentleman from Rougomery [ilir. .Rice], to the amendment of the gentleman from Morgan [Mr. Atkins]. The amendment was not agreed to. The CHAIRMAN. The question is upon the amendment of the gentleman from Morgan [Mr. Atkins]. Mr. WENDLING. Mr. Chairman: I move to auaend the motion by making it "forty thousand" in place of 11 thirty thousand." ["Question!" "Questiont."] Mr. RICE. Mr. Chairman: I move to lay the amendment on the table. Mr. WENDLING. Mr. Chairman: I would respectfully submit that there is no table in the Committee of the Whole. Mr. RICE. I thought of that before you rose to correct nee. [Laughter]. Mr. UNDERWOOD. Mr. Chairman: DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. therein. He would erect in it a mansion, and surround himself with comforts and friendship. His future is full of promise. Honors gather upon his brow. He would be great-he would have the world ad mire and applaud him. He steps proudly, higher and still higher upon the ladder of fame. The changing sands slip from the hourglass. The foundation upon which his hopes are built is based upon mortality. The chasm opens and he drops into the great her-after. Such is man. Such is human life. Such are we all. What a lesson of solemnity for the thinking mind. May it so penetrate our hearts, that we shall endeavor so to live that when our summons comes to "join the innumerable caravan that journeys on towards that bourne from whence no traveller returns," like the good man we may "wrap the drapery of our couch about us and lay us down to pleasant dreams." Mr. CHURCH. Mr. President: It had . not been my privilege to enjoy a long ac quaintance with Judge Emmerson, but having seen him and formed a slight ac quaintance, some years ago, I accompanied a distinguished friend, a day or two pre. vious to the meeting of this Convention, last December, to his private lodgings, in this city, and on first seeing Judge Em mersonI was impressed with the fact that the finger of death had marked him, and that nothing but the strength given him by the high sense of duty which he felt resting upon him, had en abled him to gather up physical power to be able to be present at the organiza tion of this Convention. IlHe seemed, in the brief conversation that I had with him, to have a full ap preciation of the great progress of the times, of the necessity of amendments to the organic law of the State. I saw no evidence of his possessing any personal motives to govern his action here. I could not see that he desired to gratify any in terested purposes-in other words, I could not see that he had any "axes to grind" whatever in this Convention. But looking upon the defects of the present Constitution, he, in his excess of modesty, felt as though he had been honored in being elected by his constituency to aid in its reconstruction, and eaI nestly desired to be here at the commencement to discharge his whole duty. I felt a deep regret that he had done so. For however anxious we in this Convention should have been, and however important it was to the people of the whole State that such a mind as his should be here, I considered it more important for the future of this State that such a great man should be preserved for future usefulness. I could not escape the conviction that he had but come here to die, and felt that it might have been otherwise had he been less scrupulous and sensitive regarding the discharge of his every duty. I am not astonished, but, on the contrary, it is a sad communication that I have been in momentary expectation of hearing ever since the holiday recess was taken. While in conversation with Judge Emmerson, I believed and felt certain that he had no personal motives to gratify. I believe that could we have been benefited by his services here, the Constitution that we have been endeavoring to frame wouend have received the impress of his most brilliant and well matured mind and APP.IL 18, 18,70. 1335 eminent ability, and his active assistance, could not be. His work and his useful ness on earth are finished. He will not return to us, but we must go to him. This is the third lesson of the kind that has been given to us as a Convention since we first came together. Such les ons are to teach us, in more forcible and -impressive language than words, that this world is not our abiding place, and the importance of preparation for that better country, even a heavenly. Mr. PEIRCE. ir. President: When a great and good man dies, in the prinae of life, and in the midst of his honors and his usefulness, it is becoming, even for those who were not favored with his intimate personal acquaintance, to join in givin- expression to the public sorrow and misfortune. The fame of Charles Emmerson as a lawyer, as a jurist, as a wise and prudent statesman, was not confined to his own county or district, but shed its pure and unsullied lustre upon the whole State. Few men outside of that profession realize what it is to be a great and pure lawyer-a competent and a conscientious judge. Amodelof boththese,wasjudge Ernmersoii. We can but commend the wisdom of the people of Ilisdistrict in selectidgsuch aman to represent them inthe difucult and important duty of revising the organic law of -the land, and we can but join with them in the general sorrow that disease and death has inter. vened to deprive us, them and the State of the benefit of his wisdom and erudition. Having been appointed upon a'committee of which he was selected as chairman, I formed his acquaintance among the early days of the Convention, and learned from his own lips his views and opinions of the important relations subsistil,g between the State and federal governments in our complex political machinery. It was with no small degree of admiration for the depth of his research, and the honesty of his purposes, that I heard him give expression to the warmest affection for Illinois, and the highest hopes for its future, coupled with a. deep and pervading sentiment of patriotism and loyalty to the general government. Judge Emi-nersou was eminently a mod t n in n ra' judgment. I think every member of the Judiciary Committee, with which he was associated as one of the very ablest mem bers, will bear me out in saying that he had given to the judiciary department of the State very much consideration. We have been enabled to adopt some of the distinctive features that his mind had matured; but the greater benefits the Convention would have derived from his clear and cultivated intellect, and that would been incorporated into our work and handed down to posterity, have been lost by reason of his inability to act with the committee and with the Convention, since the earliest days of the organization of the Convention. This is, as has been said, a solemn ad monition to us. Our numbers have been sadly attacked; five per cent.-more I may say than five per cent.-of our mem bers since we assembled, have either gone the way of all the eartla, or have been compelled to separate themselves from their important duties here by reason of fatal sickness. I cannot but feel that after a few days of our assembling together, we will separate to meet again no more forever, that but a few years will pass before a large per centage of those who have debated together here so pleasantly to themselves, and with efforts to render their labors profitable to the State and to posterity, will be called to join those friends that have so prematurely gone before us. Mr. MOORE. Mr. President: I was perhaps, better acquainted with the deceased than any member of this Convention.. My acquaintance with him commenced as early as 1841; and in connection with that acquaintance, perhaps, it may -not be improper for me here to state what I think was the proudest, and the great(-st act of his life. In his earlier years, he was given a little to dissipation. When he saw the effect that it had upon him, in about 1842, he took a resolution that he would no more, at i'lo time, and no place, touch the intoxicating bowl; and from that time until his death, he was never known to drink either in public or in private; in other words, he conquered himself, and was greater than he that 11 taketh a city." As a lawyer, he was always sound-alwa s.ust-alwa s fair to the'ur and i 1336 ~'OSTITU TiOAL COYEITIO MOXDAY, purpose among the people controlling the political interests of the country, than at any time in the history of- our republic; yet, to the honor of his memory, let it be known throughout the State, that his political opponents joined in calling him to preside over a court of justice. Republicans and democrats alike united in the election of Judge Emmerson to administer the laws of the country. In the dark, impassioned, bitter hours of the last ten years, Judge Emmerson, although his political views were well known, was called to the bench by the people of both parties, in a section where this bitterness of feeling existed to as great a degree as in any other portion of the State. This single fact is enough to impress upon his memory the seal of our admiration as long as he shall be remembered, and wherever his name shall be mentioned. As a judge, he was a pure man; as a citizen, he was respected by all who knew him; and as a delegate to this Convention, our loss in being deprived of that clear, discriminating, well-informed intellect; our loss in being deprived of his pure, patriotic assistance in these deliberations, and of the influence he would have had in shaping the action of this Convention, is a loss which, together with that loss his family has suffered, which together with the loss the State has sustained, and the loss which the community which sent him here has endured, is far too great to be expressed in words. I sustaial the resolutions and regret that this sudden announcement has prevented me that preparation I should so much desire in paying a tribute to the memory of Charles Emmerson. Mr. BROMWELL. Mr. President: It would be wrong, if I, who have been for seventeen years intimately acquainted with Judge Emmerson, a friend to him, and one who counted it among his high. est privileges that he could call him a friend, should remain silent on this occasion, and leave to others, even to comparative strangers, the duty of uttering something of the sentiments of the Convention. This is the third time, MIr. President, that we have assembled here in the capacity of mourners Twice before we have come together to commune over the sad intelligence that a brothor and fellow-member had been smitten down. But they were strangers to me. Much as I had fbeen taught to respect them by what I heard of them, I could not speak as I can speak, and as I am bound to speak on this occasion, when such a man as Charles bEmmerson, known to me as he was, and known to my people, and beloved by them all as he has been, is at last stricken down from among us. The members of this Convention, sir, are not acquainted with Charles Emmerson. One great reason for this is that he was a man of such remarkable humility, of such freedom from ambition, of such freedom from any of that disposition which inclines nen to put themselves forward before the community, in the way of seeking either notoriety or honor, that, unless the business to which he might be called by the spontaneous voice of the people, brought him in contact with strangers, they would have no opportunity of becoming acquainted with him. He sought out no man, he took no steps whatever, to ingratiate himself in the fay or of this community or that; or cause CONSTITUTIONAL CONVE14TION AIONDAY, 1336 As ajudge, he had few equals and no superiors. As a citizen,',Nlacon county only knows his great worth. As a husband, as a father, he stood amon(,st the highest; and as a man connected w,itli all the great interests of the State, with all the great movements of his county, he stands unrivaled. He was always Loremost in all measures that tended to the aid of the poor, and the elevation of the down-trodden. He came very early to Alacon countyperhaps, as early as 1836; and from that time to his death he has been ranked as among her foremost lawyers, and one of her best citizens. While walking around in the streets of Decatur, one week ago t,,)-day, I saw raen shed tears whenever his name was mentioned. Such is the feeliing towards him in the city in which he lived, and in which he died. Mr. WENDLING. I knew Judge Emmersod, Mr. President, frow- the early days of my boyhood. Among my earliest recollections are the associations connected with the old court room, at the county seat of my county, in which presided Judge EmmerSOD, the unexpected announcement of whose death has this afternoon cast a gloom over our Convention. I knew Judae Emmerson to be an honest man. I knew him to be a co,.rteotis gentleman. I knew him to be a pure and upright judge. As a law er, his abil-',.tv was such that he was recognized as the peer of the ablest counselors in the State. As a judge, he had ro superior upon the bench. He combined a spirit of fairness and an honesty of purpose, with a clearness of intellect and a power of discrimination that won for him the high and enduring respect of all the communities in which he administered justice. There is one trait of Judge Emmerson's character of which I would speak, because it is a trait that won for him the respect and admiration of all the members of the barho were of my own age; a trait by no means usual on the part of old attorneys who have risen to the bench. I refer to the kind, the charitable and ge —erous spirit which he ever exhibited ia his demeanor towards the YOUDger members of the bar. It was in the' presence of Judge Emmerson, and at the bar over which he presided, that I tried my first nd that hich I sa of him now I his name to be blazonc-d abroad. He asked for no office. He worked for none, He contrived for none. He was absolutely a citizen, content with the station which it might seei-ii good -'In the eyes of his fellowi-nen to bestow upon him; and was never better satisfied than when he had discharged his duty in a manner consistent with the dictates of his conscience, and the laws of the land. So good a man as he, is rarely to be found in the world. Seventeen years ago, he came into the town in which I resided, for the first time to sit in our court. The people where I lived had aided somewhat in electing him, althounh he was a stranger. We knewalittleofhim. Wehadjustparted withajudgewhowas honored and beloved, and who has retained a high position from that day to this, in the regards and affections of the people of the State of Illinois. We knew not what sort off man was coming, but when he came, it was found that the people could congratul,,.tte themselves upon the choice that bad been made; and from that day to this, I challenge any man who has lived within the region of country in which Judge Emmerson discharged his official duties, to say that he has ever heard any maD, of -any party, to sav aucht contrary to what I am now ucterin 9. I thus speak for Judge Emmerson here, because during that seventeen ycars, I never had cause to speak of him otherwise. And if we were to summon before us men wl-lo have controlled public opinion, who have stood foremost at the bar in all these counties which he traversed, to testify before this Convention, they would say, with one voice, that all which I Low say, is not olily the truth, but that they, themselves, have been -ayiDg the -same for seventeen years or more. In regard to the mental qualificatiors of Judge EmmerSOD, he was a man of mark. There are few such I-.ICD, sir. He had a mind of most extraordinary depth and clearness. Ile many times listened to labored articles from counsel more from courtesy than fr-)m any want of understandidg in himself, for he seemed to have the intuitive perception of the very Isubstar —ce of causes which led him to see directlv through a legal problem as soon as it c;uld be s-tated. This has been the subject of remark for years among all law ers who knew him with whom I APRIL 18, 18-70. DBATIS AXD PROCEEDJGS. 1337 is nothing that will follow a man when he shall leave this world, nothing that can be left behind him by which men will think of him with sentiments of kindness and esteem, nothing by which the hearts of a nation can be touched, but the good he has done or sought op portunity to do in the affairs of his day and generation. Mr. President, I have spoken earnestly, but I have not used exaggeration. It is seldom I open my mouth in -the funeral eulogies of any. I have forborne during my whole life to raise my voice to offer one word in laudation of one deceased, except I had spoken of him in the same way while he lived. Nothing is more repugnant to my mind than to see those who have indulged in crimination, or have spoken often with contempt of one in life, join with plaudits about the bier when death has set his seal upon a conspicuous life, and there is some applause, perhaps, to follow an assumption of candor at the mouth of the grave. I repeat, not only do I stand here and say what I have said of Charles Emmerson, but I am most willing that all others who have knowvn him as I have known him, should be as outspoken as I; for all here well know that it has been the singular good fortune of this lamented man to have always been spoken as well of by all with whom he lived. No man ever supposed it possible that Charles Emmers-)n could waver, or prove in the least recreant to the highest conception of what manhood, honior and duty re quire. Under all circumstancss, I have heard but one voice expressed by those of any party or any religion. That was a tes timony-not an adulation-the testimony of every one to the fact that no more upright judge has been known on the bench-no citizen whom the people de lighted more to honor for his integrity arid manly virtues. Having said these things imperfctlymore imperfectly than they should be uttered on such an occasion-I shall add no more; leaving it to many others who sit with us now, to give a further exoression of the universal sentiment of grief which pervades this body, hoping that in the course of Divine Providence this crowning calamity may be the last which we will be called to undergo during our brief sitting in this capacity. Mr. PARKS. Mr. President: I beocanie acquainted with Judge Emmersona just twenty-one years ago, and since that time have lived in such near neighbr,r hoed to him, know so well his reputationo and standing as a public man and private citizen, that I cannot forbear to say;a few words expressive of my high respect for his character, and very deep regret f,ir his loss. it was said by one of the greatest English orators and statesmen, when annou hi cing the death of one of his associates in public life, that that event feelingly taught them what phantoms they were, and what phantoms they'pursued. I rejoice to believe that public men and public measures are not always necessarily phantoms. When public men are governed by vanity, by pride, by ambition, by selfishness, and a desire alone for their own aggrandizement, and where public measures partake of that chara cter, th en indeed they may truly be called phantom:; and whatever temporary popalarity they "These when the trembling spirit wings its flight, Shed round its path a stream of living light, And gild those pure and perfect realms of rest, Where virtue triumphs, and her sons are blest.' DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1337 APP.IL 18, 18'70. may have, they must soon pass away, and be forgotten. But, sir, the character of Judge Emmersoin, and the services he rendered to this State as a lawyer, a judge, and a legislator were rot of this kind at all. He was, as all these gentlemen have described 'him, eminently a good, substantial and honest niad-a pure judge, and a pure lawyer, actuated, not by selfishness, but by a desire for the public good. The labors of such men do inot pa. —s away. They remain, in their effects, upon the country tbev have served; they remain in the recollections of their fellowcitizeiis. It would be sad, indeed, if it were not so. I rejoice that we have among us public men of that character. I concur subst-tntially, with all the gentlemen preceding me, who have spoken of Judge Emmerson. I believe all that they have said to be true. I think, as the gentleman who last addressed the Convention [iNIr. Bromwell] has said, that there is no one in this State who knew that man's pubiie and private character, who wilt not bear testimony to the truth of what he said of Judge Eaimerson's talents, integrity, legaj knowledge, and devotion'to the interests of his country. In one respect, sir, I think Judge Emmerson was different from many public men. He did not particularly seek or desire public life or public service. But wh,en placed in a position to serve the public, he had a great deal of ambitionambition not to distinguish himself, but to serve his State, and he always did it well. I remember, a few weeks ago, in a letter received from Governor OLIesby,, speaking of Judge Emmerson, he stated that his most earnest desire was to get well so that he might return here and peif )rm his part as a member of this ConveLtiOD, as his fellow-citizens had el(cted him to t at office. Atid that, I think, was his character throughout lifc,-iaot selfishly ambitious, Dot desirou,,i of public life t'or its own sake, but earnestly WiShiDg, when in public life, to do his whole -y fully, faithfully, and to the Utmost of his healt,i and strength. Now, sir, can it be said that such men are mere pliaiitoms in political and public life? As I said before, I rjoice that it is not so. I think it would be a most melanchol and de lorable fact if it were shrink, but do him even-handed justice, not fearing that a single soul will attrib. ute anything to partiality. Such was the command Jud-,e Emmerson had over his sentiments and passions, such his entire cotifi(lei-ce in the fact that the people appreciated his perfect integrity, that he would as readily, and with as complete justice, decide upon any questior, in which his friend was involved, as thou-,h he were his enemy; and in either case, as though he were a, —traDger. And this cani,,ot be said of any great number of men in the world. I regard him as one of the brightest iniellects I have ever seen, a man of the greatest prudence, a mail who, if the people had kuowu IiiLii throughout the State of Illinois, could not have been circumscribed in his field of duty, within the limits of any one judicial circuit. Comiug here, as he did, smitten with disease, which was destined to be his last illness, he had no opp,,)rtui,ity of showidg the membeis of this Convention the powers'of Iiis intellect; none bad the opportunity to becolue acquainted with his qualities of D-iii-,d ctiid heart. For without os' tenta-tion; without any attempt to put himself f(-)i-wardin the world, it would take some time for men to learn that he w;is constituted of such material as he was. Like pure gold, sir, which has been tried air the fire, there was uo wear, there was no waste, and there was no dimness wrou,,,Iit by time, in the qualities of his mind a,,Id heart. Now, ia the full tide of his manhood while blessed, up to a late, period,- with such a vigorous constitution and unimpaired health, it seemed that he would certainly live many years, to witness the proc,ress and prosperity of his beloved Sta,te,-at the very time when he was enterit;Z upon new and important duties, to wiiic'n 1-ic, had been called by thc- spoiitaneous action of the pe(-ple, and not by his own s(,-(-ki.i-ig, ai,d at a time when his disti,g,,i'isii,d abilities were most in de ,vltea tt,-,e people of this region of the Stite looked forward to him to be a 1YIeL,tor in counsel here, he has been stricken, aided we have been obliged to go on with our labors without his aid. Heariijg from time to time that deat'a was fasteiiidg upon him, we had come to expect tl-iis Melancholy intelligence, which is not ODI a blow to this Convention, 80. Judge Emmerson has left his place here all.IODg us, has gone to his long home, and, as I believe, to his final rest. He has left a good exa,mple here f.)r us to follow, and I hope, sir, that we will be able to follow it-imitatidg his unselfishiaess, and his devotion to truth, order, law, and the public good. If we do that, then, sir, when our career is closed, our recollection of the past, and our hopes for the future will be bright and glorious, as I have no doubt his were iii his dying hour. Mr. President: "Can the wiles of art or grasp of power Snatch the rich relics ot a well-spent hour?" Reason, experience, religion answer "NO." 133 COSIUJ-LC~]XIXTEDY the higher was my respect and esteem for him. The remarks that have been made by others, and especially those so eloquently made by the gentleman from Shelby [Mr. Wendling], leave, were it necessary and proper for me to utter anything, little to be said in praise of Judge Emmerson. It has been well said that he was a pure and conscientious judge, an upright man, and a public-spirited citizen. As a citizen, a man of enterprise and public spirit, devoted to the interests of the co)untry and of his State, he had no superior anywhere. We have met with a serious loss in being deprived of his association and valuable counsels in this Convention. His constit uents have also been deprived, very un- fortunately. of his services in the capacity of a delegate to this body. But he has departed from us, and for the third time during the session of this Convention, are we reminded how frail is the tenure by which our earthly existence is held. Mr. WHEATON. The grandest achievement in human life is to do one's duty manfully, with a conscience void of of fense towards God and man; and, having performed that duty, to lay aside the frail tenement that shackles the spirit and intellect, and rise to nobler aims and to brighter scenes beyond. Most men live too long. Happy is that man who dies in the midst of his works, in the midst of his usefulness, and passes away esteemed, beloved, lamented by all whom he leaves behind. I was not personally acquainted with the deceased. I saw him but a few times during the session of this Convention; but the tribute that has been paid to him here, by those who knew him, demonstrates that the secret of the strength of his character was the pure morality of his life. That is what makes any man strong. Without that no man can be, however brilliant his intellect. The testimony that has been paid, by those who knew him, to the stern inflexibility of his integrity, and the stern morality of his life and of his character, is a tribute that ought to be paid to all men-is truthfully paid to but' few, Allow me again to say, sir, that happy is the man who dies at a time when such thi ngs can be truthfully said of hinm. Death is no loss to him; but a great gain. It is a.loss only to those whom he leaves behind. It is a loss to us, if we do not imitate his character in that particular; for however great and brilliant a man's intellect may be, his life is a failure without the moral character behind to sustain and support it. In closing, sir, I may say of him, as Collins has so beautifully said in his ode to the brave-of him, who was brave, according to the testimony of those who were acquainted with him, to perform all the duties of his life: "How sleep the brave, who sink to rest, By all their country's wishes blest, When spring with dewy fingers cold, Returns to deck their hallowed mould, She there shall dress a sweeter sod, Than fancy's feet have ever trod. By fairy hands their nell is rung, By forms unseen their dirge is sung, There honor comes, a pilgrim grey, To bless the turf that wraps their clay; And freedom shall awhile repair To dwell, a weeping hermit there 1" ADJOURNMENT. The PRESIDENT. The resolutions will be spread upon the journals, and by PRAYER. Prayer woas offered by Rev. Dr. Miller, of Springfield, as follows: Our Father who art in I meaven, we implore Thy blessing upon the labors of Thy servants, gathered together in this place for the purpose of framing an organic law for the government of this commonwealth. Lord, we feel that in all the interests and cares of life, we need Thy blessing and Thy guidance; and we thank Thee that Thou art ever readv to grant Unto us such help as our circumstances require for the proper direction and performance of the work of our life here below. Be with Thy servants in their labors this day. Give them wisdom from above; enable them faithfully and conscientiously to perform their duties in the fear of the Lord, so that they, in subsequent life, may be satisfied in their own work, and that it may result in good to the interests of thy people in every department of life. Grant Thy blessing upon all the affairs of this people and this nation. Do Thou give wisdom to those who are appointed to rule. May they rule in the fear of God. May they remember they are accountable to the Maker of all. Into Thy hands we now commit our work for this day. Guide us by Thy Spirit, and accept of us, through our Lord Jesus Christ. Amen. Mr. CAMERON. Mr. President: The announcement which has just been made informs us of the mou rnful fa ct that an o ther of our nu mber has taken h is de p arture for that "country from whose bourne no traveler returns." And it re mind s us also of a fact more important to ourselves, and o n e which w e a re at all times too prone to forget —that we are but pilgrims and sojourners upon the earth, and that the place which knows us now will soon know us no more forever. "Man dieth and wasteth away, yea, man giveth up the ghost, and where is he?"-a ques tion that cannot be answered this side of the grave. I had not the honor of a personal ac quaintance with Judge Emmerson. I have known of him as a gentleman held in the highest estimation by all acquaint ed with him. Eminent both at the bar and on the bench, esteemed and honored in all the relations of life, his death in flicts a loss upon this State, and upon this Convention which will not be easily re paired. It is fitting that on such an oc casion we should pay some becoming tribute of respect to the memory of our departed brother, and it is fitting also that we should learn the lesson which the mournful intelligence is calculated to teach. Important as areiour'duties here, and im portant as are all the duties which lie be fore us in life, let us never forget how brief and unimportant is time and its af fairs in the prospect of eternity. Let us not fail to remember that it is the chief duty of life to prepare for death; to look beyond the present to the future; to so live that when we come at tength to die, it may be said of us, " mark the perfect man and the upright, for the end of that - man is peace." Mr. ATKINS. Mr. President: I do not rise to prolong the mournful duties and tributes we owe to the memoiy of Judge Emmerson. It was my good fortune and pleasure to have known him for a period of some thing like ten years. I recollect that about that time, in the early part of the practice of my profession, I had occasion to transact business in his court, at his home. At that time I made his acquaint ance, personally. I saw his deportment and demeanor upon the bench, and ob served the manner in which he officiated as a judge in the administration of justice. I can say, with perfect sincerity, that it made a deep impression upon my mind. I then learned to esteem him as a judge, a man and a citizen. I have rarely seen a judge administer the duties of his court between parties litigant with more fair ness, with more firmness and with more of executive capacity. I had occasion also to notice the manner in which he was regarded by those who knew him in the community where he lived. I have sel dom seen a judge who seemed to enjoy a more profound and hearty respect from the people of his own community. S~ince he had retired from the bench, I had met him frequently. I had occasion last summer to be for hours in his office at Decatur, in. the enjoyment of unre strained social intercourse with him. I had occasion to be with him when he came here to assume his duties as a dele gate to this Convention, and the monre I became acquainted with him, and saw him as a citizen and a lgublic officer, Th e Secretary proceeded to re ad the journal of the last day's proceedings when Mr. DEMENT. Mr. President: I move that the further reading of the journal be dispensed with. The motion was agreed to. APPOINTMENTS ON COMMITTEE. The PRESIDENT. The-" Chair will announce the appointment of Messrs. Bromwell, English, Wheaton and Buxton as additional members of the Committee on Revision and Adjustment, under the resolution adopted by the Convention yesterday. LEAVE OF ABSENCE. Mr. HAINES, of Cook. Mr. President: I would ask leave of absence for the gentleman from Rock Island [Mr. Truesdale] for an indefinite time. I have a communication from him stating that he is detained on account of sickness in his family. Leave was granted nero con. Mr. VANDEVENTER. Mr. President: I ask leave of absence for the gentleman from Richland [Mr. Robinson] for an indefinite time. Leave was granted nem. con. Mr. CARY. Mr. President: I ask leave of absence for the gentleman from Clinton [Mr. Buxton] for three or four days. Leave was granted nem. con. RESOLUTIONS FOR ADOPTION. The PRESIDENT. Resolutions for adoption are in order. DEBATES OF CONTENTION. Mr. SEDGWICK. Mr. President: I offer the following resolution and move 'its, adotin. n 1388 CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION TUF,SDAY, the adoption thereof, the Convention is adjourned. So the Convelition (:it four o'clock and ten minutes) adjourned. 6. SE VENTY-FO UR TH- DA Y. TUF,SDAY, April 19,1870. The Conveiation met at nine o'clock, A. m., and was called to order by the President. READING OF THE JOURNAL. 0 APRIL 19, 1870. DEBATES AXi) PROCEEDINGS. 1339 is a constant struggle in our counties for place; a constant wire pulling is inaugu rated, and I think it would be better for the community at large for them to select officers that should be allowed to hold of fice for four years, so that the country may have peace three years, from these petty politicians. Mr. ENGLISH. Is an amendment to that amendment in order? The CHAIRMAN. If it has reference to the number of years, it would be in order. Mr. ENGLISH. I propose to amend the proposition, instead of inserting "four years," to strike out commencing at the word "for" in the fourth line, including th e balance of that clause, and inserting these words:'as may be provided by law." My notion in regard to such offices, es pecially such as those of county and cir cuit clerks, is this: that it is to the inter est of every county to have the most ex perienced men that it can get, and if we adopt the policy that has been pursued by this Convention thus far of not filling these offices by the same men twice in succession, we will insure that we never will and never can have competent offi cers to fill these places. It would be better, in my judgment, at least in regard to the term of these two offices, that it should be six or eight years rather than two; and I would rather leave it to the Legislature to provide, inasmuch as different times may be necessary. For the sheriff, two years is perhaps well enough, though, I believe four would be preferaable; but especially as to the county and circuit clerks, I think a much longer time should be allowed. The CHAIRMAN. The question is upon the amendment of the gentleman from Greene [Mr. English] to the amendment of the gentleman from Mason [Mr. Wright]. A division was ordered. The committee divided; when, there being sixteen in the affirmative and twenty-five in the negative, the amendment was not agreed to. Mr. SEDGWICK. Mr. Chairman: I now offer an amendment to the amendment, viz: to add the words "except the offices of treasurer and sheriff, who shall be elected once in two years." Mr. WHEATON. Mr. Chairman: I desire to suggest an inconsistency between this section and certain sections of the judiciary article. We have already adopted, in Committee of the Whole, a provision that the county judge and county clerk shall hold their offices for four years. This section provides that they shall hold them for two years; and, if it be in order, I move to strike out from this section the words, "county judge and county clerk," and then, as to the other officers, we can afterwards fix the time, according as we want them, two years or four. Mr. RICE. Does the gentleman's motion include circuit judge and circuit clerk? The CHAIRMAN. The Chair would be of the opinion that the motion would be an independent motion, and not an amendment to the amendment. Mr. FULLER. Mr. Chairman: I have prepared a substitute for this section w which I will offer at the proper time. I will read it now for information. In the county of Cook, it sill be recol The Secretar y read th e resolution, as follows: Resolved, That the members of this Convention be furnished with thirty additional copies of the daily debates during the remainder of the session, for distribution among their constituents. Mr. SEDGWICK. Mr. President: As there is a growing interest among the people, now that we draw near the'close of our session, in regard to the action of the Convention, it seems to me highly proper to allow the members thirty additional copies of the debates, for distribution among their constituents. The report of the Committee on Revision and Adjustment probably will be exceedingly interesting, as, also, the new Constitution itself, which will appear in these printed debates, probably, in a short time. Mr. ANDERSON. Mr. President: I move to lay the resolution on the table. A division was ordered. The committee divided, when, there being tw,Venty-three in the affirmative, the motion was agreed to. So the motion of Mr. Anderson to lay theresolution offered by Mr. Sedgwick on the table, was agreed to. There shall be elected in each county in this State, except the county of Cook, at such time as is or may be prescribed by law, a clerk of the circuit court, who shall be ex oJfflio re corder in all counties having less than — in habitants, who shall hold his office for four years, and until his successor shall be elected and qualified. There shall also be elected in each county in this State, a sheriff, who shall be ex officio collector in counties that have not adopted township organization, treasurer, surveyor and coroner, who shall hold their offices for two years, and until their successors shall be elected and qualified. Said officers shall succeed the present clerks of the circuit courts, sheriffs, treasurers, and coroners, at the expiration of their respective terms of office. The General Assembly shall prescribe uniform rates of fees or fees and salaries for all county officers, and when the fees and salary of any such officer shali ex ceed -- dollars per annum, such portion of the excess above that sum as the General Assembly shall prescribe (not less than one half), shall be paid into the county treas ury. I think'his obviates all the objections in relation to the different offices, and also in relation to fees. The term of office for clerk of circuit court is pre scribed at four years, the same as it now stards, and I think that four years time to the clerk of the circuit court is as lit tie as these terms ought to be. The term of office for sheriff, coroner and treasurer is put at two years. It is not so important that they hold their offices for a term of four years as it is that of clerk, whose duties are more complicated and who re quires a longer time to get properly qualified for the performance of his duties. In regard to the fees, this section obvi ates the objections, and will produce uni formity in all the counties, and at the same time will not give an excessive sala ry to any of the officers. For the benefit, for instance, of smaller counties, the Leg islature will prescribe a uniform rate of fees —a reasonable compensation for the labor of the officers-and where it does not exceed, say three thousand dollars, or any sum the committee may see proper to insert, the officers shall be entitled to the whole of the fees. In counties where the fees exceed that sum, he shall not receive more than half the excess —the balance to go into the coanty treasury. The half will probably be no more than a fair compensation for the extra labor he will have to perform in the larger counties. It will do away with all the difficulties in relation to clerk hire, make the law simple and plain in its operation throughout the State, and suit alike the smaller and larger counties. Mr. WRIGHT. Mr. Chairman: I have the same objection to the gentleman's substitute that I had to the original section reported by the committee. Soo far as I am concerned, I think I see the evil existing which I stated to the committse. I wish to quiet this matter of an eternal canvass for these offices throughout the county. Electing a treasurer, sur. vcyor, sheriff and coroner for two years will not do away with that difficulty. I still have another objection to making the office of sheriff of only two years duration. My observation has been tl~t APRIL 19) 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1339 lected, there are several clerks to be elected, and for that reason I have excepted that couu"y. For t;ome cause the words "circuit clerk," were stric'-Cen out from thejudiciary article. There is no provision in that article for the election of a circuit clerk. I will read: MUNICIPAL CORPORATIONS. Mr. BROWNING. Mr. President: I move that:the report of the Committee on ]Nlunicipal Corporations be referred to the Committee of the Whole, and be made the order of the dav at half-past nine o'clock, one week from to-day, if there is no other order for that day. ["Make it earlier."] I suppose we will enter upon the judiciary article sooii,,and there are probably references enough to occupy all of this week. If, however, we shall have it in our po.ver, and it shall become necessary to take it up for consideration earlier than the time indicated, it will be easy to rescind the order now made and take it up on any day when the Coiovention may be without other employments. I think we had better fix it for a week from today. The motion was agreed to. So the report of the Committee on Municipal CorDo'ratiODS was referred to the Committee of the Whole and made the special order for Tuesday, A-Dril 26th, at half-past nine o'clock, A. M. COUNTIES. Mr. CRAIG. Mr. President: I move that the Convention resolve itself into Committee of the Whole, for the further consideration of the report of the Committee on Counties. The motion was agreed to. So the Convention, as in Committee of the Whole (Mr. Goodhue in the chair), resumed the coiasideration'of the report of the Committee on Counties. The CHAIRMAN. The question is on the amendment of the gentleman from Morgan [Mr. Atkins], to section six, which amendment the Clerk, will read. The Clerk read the amendment, offered by Air. Atkins, as foll-ows: Insert after -the word "deeds," in third line, the following: "Except in all counties having forty thousand and more inhabitants.,' Mr. WRIGHT. Mr. Chairman: I move to amend the sixth section by striking out the word "two," in the fourth line, before the word "years," and inserting the word "four." I do that for the reason that I think our elections for county offcers are already held too often. 4 13O COSTITTIOM TUESDAY, clerks atud leave the section to read "sheriff and circuit clerk;" but I think if there is no amendment, to purely adopt the substitute of the gentleman from Stark [Mr. Fuller] would be better. The CHAIRMAN. The question is upon the substitute offered by the gentleman from Stark [Mr. Fuller]. Mr. SEDGWICK. Mr. Chairman: I offer au amenrdmenit. The CHAIRMAN. The Clerk will read both the substitute and the amendment. The Clerk read the substitute, offered by Mr. Fuller, as f)llows: There shall be elected in each county in this State, except the county of Cook, at such time as is, or may be prescribed by law, a clerk of the circuit court, who shall be ex officio recorler, in all counties having less than — inhabitants, who shall hold his office for four years, and until his successor shall be elected and qualified. There shall also be elected in each county in this State, a sheriff, who shall be ex of l,io collector in counties that have not adopted township organization; treasurers, survevor. and coroners, who shall hold their offices for two years, and until their successors shall be elected and qualified. Said officers shall succeed the present clerks of the circuit courts, sheriffs, treasurers, and coroners at the expiration of their respective terms of office. The General Assembly shall prescribe uniform rates of fees, or fees and salaries, for all county officers, and when the fees and salary of any such officer shall exceed -- dollars per annum, such portion of the excess above that sum, as the General Assembly shall prescribe (not less than one half), shall be paid into the county treasury. Mr. WHEATON. Mr. Chairmtan: The last part of that substitute I never heard before. I did not intend to include that part in my motion to adopt. Mr. SEDGWICK. Mr. Chairman: Will the Clerk read my amendment? The Clerk read the amnendment offered by Mr. Sedgwick, as follows: Each of whom shall enter upon the duties of their offices on the first Monday of December after their election. Mr. FULLER. Mr. Chairman: I shall accept the amendment. Mr. ENGLISH. Mr. Chairman: It seems to me it would be better to post pone the consideration of the sixth sec tion until after the seventh section has been considered. They depend on eache other. I therefore move the postpone ment of the section until after the seventh section has been considered by the comrn miitee. Mr. RICE. Mr. Chairman: I hope the motion of the gentleman from Greene [Mr. English] will prevail. Section seven provides for a limit upon the income of c unty officers, based upon population. And, if that section is adopted in the present shape, with the additional pro vision that there should be allowed clerk hire, fuel and stationery, it will, in my view, become ineffectual and imapractica ble. As to whether there is to be a provision for the election of recorder in aty coun ties at all or not: If the income of the office is limited, and the officer is authorized to employ assistance, the mere emultiplication of officers will do no good. But, if the officers are to depend on the office, and without limit, it becomes an important question to provide for the election of recorder of deeds, in the counties having a large population. For this reason, I think we ought first to determine whether we are to limit the incomes of officers, fixed upon pepulation, before we undertake to fix the elec tion of a recorder, on account of population. I hope the motion will prevail. The question bei ng o n t he mo tion of Mr. Eniglish to postpone the consideration of section six, with amendment s, until after the committee shall have consiede red :ction seven, it was a,greed t). The CHAIRMAN. The Clerk will read section seven. The Clerk read section seven, as follows: SEc. 7. The county board shall fix the compensation of all county officers, but shail not allow either of them more per annum than fifteen hundred dollars, in counties net exceeding twenty thousand inhabitants- two thousand dollars in counties containing' wenty, and not exceeding thirty thousand ilihabitants; twenty five hundred dollars in counties containing thirty, and not exceeding fifty thousand inhabitants; three thousand dollars in counties containing fifty, and not exceeding seventy thousand inhabitants; thirty-five hundred dollars in counties containing seventy, and notlexceedinz one hundred thousand inhabitants; and Iour thousand dollars in counties containing over one hundred thousand inhabitants —in addition to their n,eccssary clerk hire, stationery, and fuel. All fees or allowances by them received, in excess of their salary, shall be paid into the county treasury, Mr. ENGLISH. Mr. Chairman: I now move to strike out section seven. The object, I suppose, of section seven is to cut down and limit the fees and salaries to be given to these officers. We have discussed to some extent, in cousidering the other provisions, the propriety of limitin,g and fixing fees anid salaries of officers; anid the Convention has heretofore decided that it is unwise and impolitic to do so. I think the object of fixi,rg in a Constitution such a provision, should be to insure having competent and efficient officers. It is a matter for the g(.(d of the counties and inhabitants thereof, not of the individuals filling the offices there it); but it seems to me that there is a mis take in this, as a plan for securing good officers for the discharge of these duties. What would be tlhe effect of limiting these fees, as here prescribed? If these salaries are paid out of the fees of the officer, the officer will collect about enough from the fees to satisfy his own de.hianeds, anda he will use all the balance to secure his re-election, or for other pur poses, to secure his own popularity and inJfluence; and when the accounlts are settled, it will be tbund that the treasury of the county, or the treasury of the State, will get nothing} or next to nothin~g at all. It will be also placing this impediment in the discharge of the duties of the officer. An officer has certain functions to perform, and will get his pay without reference to their perfo3rmance. It will be almost an impressibility to seculre the discharge (of the duties of the,~ffice,e for the only duty incumbent on it, as the officersr will hook at it, will he to draw their salaries, and that they will do) with ( ommlenldab~le zatla. Ofe course, their b)usineslous and unjust that ever was advanced. doThe offices were created for the benefit; inof t p l the people, and the officers should be r e tse paid only what is a reasonable compenve sation, for a reasonable amount of labor. le, They should be limited to that. Why in should one man be allowed to make in es one day ninety dollars, while another rch man, equally competent, can only make hIf two or three dollars? The officers are rsn merely the servants of the people, and yet ut they are getting to look at the people, I ial may say, to use a vulgar simile, as a mule l oo T he looks upon a stack of hay, or a horse upo her on a bushel of oats- ist to be devoured ey and nothing else. That is the way they sare treating us all over the country, eat c-ing us up. ct Let them I a, a have a fair compeensais tiowD, and no mo thre. Anyth ing else putofficers a 0- themn above us, instead of leaving them under us, and subject to our control. el that will beo the e f f e ct if we leave ethis tothe uImstate th e an r e tr ttet that there I are mor mmen in this Convention, probe ably, who are outside of court house influences, outside of the rings at countyr r-seats, than will perhaps ever be assembled here again. For thatxeason I call upon them never to subject Mtle peo'ple again, if .they can help it, to the baneful influ _ances of these rings, these court house lofficers.. There areaong undred and two coun,sties in the State. Any Legislature that will come up here will be influenced m tuch more by them than this Convention e will be or has been. This question of ; fees, if we leave it open, will be regula: ted for the benefit of the officers, and not e for the benefit of the people. A Legisla1 ture can never be trusted with fees. It is safe to trust them with appropriations. ' They go abroad in big amounts-the peo ple can see the sums at once. But if we trust them with little fees, the add e arcent here, aend ten cents Cnethere, andofiteen cents upon some outheritem Nobodyhus .~ confiencesutsid o the reigs no compantymd u unatil thenwl peohple aeeate bpTee arsembe hewrie watan goreae tha eyaren, I and what thmnvr good mubent they are,pl agand hoiteftk thycar el, tof the paeubli inintrss*-n e thincs littlse opraiong, theye aoreatenn thoue ' ang.f hs officersstldeprit thefesh i f the ptt.n eopslaue.ta Tswl ome sere what thee onffiecerscndoiti , onlych more by tohee what they hanvento don. feeshf elave itopnly w llo atte feesla cents Inr the beeit was two dollacrs, andno fiv te bushels of wheat porpten buselisof corn, candne deporsite itinthe clerks. ofie,o 7its proceds Thto irs them wihaporaytiones.r tutthese wthinge es,G toe a d f i vmer n h himt howe nand buselens oftheaor con, if 'rhwmn cowseunl orhorseis nocmint takes plentyR ocers ndeioswho wil er fu el;" and I think that the best c im mencement to get on to the right tra his will be to sustain th e motion of my frie in- from Greene [Mr. English]. This mat ce, of fees and salaries is one that there i he great deal of feeling about, and one th mns the people should take a great deal of se terest in; but after all, there is a ve pt general feeling that the fees should pe paid by that class of men who are requ is ing the services of these various office ct More than half of the people of the co u r- ty never g o near a co urt hous e on lea n- bus iness, and never have anything to o ne with law suits of any kind. e Now, sir, if suffic ient fees t o pay the sis salaries are no t collected, t hey will ha to be paid out of the taxes of the peopu d and these men who have no interest i n thi s ma tte r will be obliged to pay tax is in order to pay fees and salaries, whi Fe par ties a lo ne interested sh ould pay. to left in this loose manner the re will be a d inducement for officers to be lax abo it collecting f ees. Th e y will have no speci ix inter e s t in d oing so. The people of t d county have to pay the ir salar y, wheth i these fees are collected or no',, and if the a- are not collected it c omes out of the tat a-; es. The officers will not pres s the colle r-tion too hard, fo r if the y do m e n wi e- vote against the m; and I think if th v- matter is left to the Legislature, the per n ple will be bet t er s atisfied with it, prt s' vided the proper guard s are put on tf e Legislature. e I know that co mpl aints come from tih 1- c ounty of C ook in thi s matter; but tl o, county of Co ok seems to be outside of th g other co unties in the Stat e, in many pa] ticulars. - Mr. HAINES, of Cook. Barbarians. y Mr. CARY. O no; not b arbari ans f but you have a v ery large population e The fees are collected from great lhu e ber' but that can be separately regulate t by itsel-P in the ConstitutioD, as well f an ou s that jr N the genire of thcounty of Coo will~~~~~~~~ have tosay thercerkste isaay alomo akaqeton? eT seechtthsoficescn doiti s which whe havprovide d for. ther. MOORE. Mr. Chairm a n I hop s this section will not be stricken ou nTher e was noe one sec ti on to f this repor e upon which the committe oe were mor a wun a n imo us than they were on that, asnf I her ols a hre thn i s no one section b It appears to me thatThifethensection iisgametevilook them Wexsethtfitpents.Iaporfrerssowat trwhichui the grievous oburdens laid u ng the people tay and thcan be ora ised, has be - e er.Wh thiseol secton. d p an i tore ob e a t ofo men t this Gocti n a fa me and s loosean a busin ess mo me n wonas fcor corn " ct f o r all feSH. Th e beo plea ma n it or ho se ione. 'lo The expenskaqesofltgtion, th?xpne r MOfR E reordn, ti;he exeneso everyhng i thtisndoes aroun th courot hospae, thaetie ' been fo i ghncreasd eormul wiha theulast -dtll vars. Wehca hie peopk ler shoul pay sany. moe fv~lor ahm goo seevn thant bn py,thany churchpy ael cltergmesan,ha [thansa business malno pay foer auclerk;i mr.e teNGIH Wil thei gentl.Tema wiallowhave to askit an queestion e n ~f trubeabou hbtiren competent men,a lry :oetmn men fhox eight hundredt oathuand >a oilhver tol does it,nhere will be nocas duties of his office in a right and prop manner. But if we take away from hi all these incentives, and give him salary, he never will, nor can he be i duced to, discharge the duties of his offi if it is possible for him to escape from t performance of these duties. The mea that are put in his hands, to use the things f or el ectioneering and corru purposes, are also to be considered. are giving him a chance to neglect h duties; to refuse to collect fees-to colc that which belongs to the county-in o der to accommodate individuals, and i sure his own re-election. It seems to that these incentives are such that should, by all means, do away with th thing. Again, this is a mere experiment, an it seems to me that it would be folly i us to fix in the Constitution, which unalterable, this sort of a policy. W may give to the Legislature the right 1 experiment in this thing, and try it, an see whether it will succeed or not; but: would be folly in us, it seems to me, to fi this in the Constitution, so that it coul not be changed. Mr. CARY. Mr. Chairman: I am ir clined to think that the view of the get tleman from Greene [Mr. English] is co] rect. This section, I suppose, was pr~ pared to do away with some very grief ous and just complaints that have bee: made with regard to these county officers fees. Officers of certain counties, at som sessions of the Legislature, have corn here and lobbied, and got extra fees a] lowed, which have been very outrageous or have been considered so; and I thinl so myself. Now, this section, I presume, was pre pared with the intention of doing awa with the abuses arising from this class o legislation. However, in the legislativ article, section thirty-two, I find these words: "The General Assembly shall no pass any local or special laws in any o the following enumerated cases, that i to say,"-among others: Creating, increasing, or decreasing fees, per centages, or allowances of public officers dur ing the term for which said officers were elected or appointed, or for extending the terms of said officers." Now, Mr. Chairman, in looking ove] section seven, I find that the count) board are to fix the compensation ot county officers; but in addition to that there are these words: "In addition to the salaries they shall be allowed their necessary clerk hire) stationery and fuel." Now, it seems to me that is a place left open for a great deal of fraud, and a great many abuses on the people of the county. If the people are to pay the salaries enumerated in this section, and to supply the clerks and other officers with all the clerk hire they deem necessary, I imagine that there are many counties th'at will have to pay~ their clerks the salary and in addition thereto the subordinate clerks for doing the work, and that the officers will get their salaries without doing much of the real labor of the office. It appears so me that if the section is stricken out, with the guards that have been put into the legislative article, and nome others that we may introduce, it will bear much less hard uponl the people, than it will to leave it here with this loose and ill-guarded plan of furnishing " necessary clerk hire, stationery and 336 APP.IL 19) 1870. 1341 'e2CNTTTINLC~ETiO ~xDY test between Lord Lyndhurst and Lord Campbell, in the Entiglish parliamentthat these little municipalities should be allowed to control and govern themselves as nearly as they can. It puts the entire municipal government of the counties within the control of the county board. What would be the effect? Whenever that board of supervisors meet, or at least once a year, when they do meet, they will audit these fees. This board, or a committee appointed by them, will meet once a year for this purpose. It is true in the question of figures there are some men, who when they look at them see nothing but confusion. There are men so constituted that if one were to hand to them a bunch of figures, a long account, or even a nice balance-sheet, they could see nothing but Bable in them; but there will always be men on that board that will go to work and take pleasure in auditing that account. I submitted this question tosomeold supervisors in my own county, and two of them told me they could audit the business of any county, outside of the county of Cook, once a year, in a day or two for each office. One can always tell from the records when a deed is recorded, and can al ao tell the amountt paid for it. Add these up for one year and there will be the recorder's fees for that year. It would be utterly impossible for officers to cheat in not collecting the fees under this plan. For these men will go and exam amine these books, and see this fee bill against me, for instance. The supervisor says, why is not that fee bill collected? Hle says, "MIoore is not good." The supervisor will rep)ly, "I will see the supervisor of his township, and if he is good, I will charge you with it; you shall pay it. If he is not good, you must use all diligence to get it hereafter." The board of supervisors will take measures to audit these accounts honestly and farely, and see that they are collected. It is the same with the county clerk, Now the enormous expense in the item of compiling the taxes alone in the county clerk's office is almost beyond our comprehension, and cannot be justified. If you have one hundred and sixty acres of land, it is sub-divided into forty acre tracts, for the clerk gets just as much for computing the taxes upon forty acres as upon the whole section, if the section be treated as one tract. I want to frame tthis Constitution so as to stop this. It can be stopped, and it will be stopped if th is section is adopted. All fees will be reduced. Is not fifteen hundred dollars salary enough for counties having less than 20,000 inhabitants? I ask any gentieman who lives in a small county or a large county, if he cannot get plenty of men to fill the office at $1,000? He certainly can do it. Why, then, shall thet people be taxed to pay fees to the amount of $6,000? There is no sense in it. It is wrong. No man should be allowed to fill his purse at the expense of his neigh bors. Because men have honest differences, should there be a clerk standing by to urge on the difficulty for his own personal benefit? Certainly not. Heshould have a fair compensation, and no more, nor no less. What is the effect of these large fees ,noon the officer and the community b i ace number of men laying around T.{-}ok at the naumber of - n get an office, and then sometimes fail to do it, No man should be tempted like that. Others, again, adopt a life of idleness, lay around the cour t house for years, in order to get a chance at the public crib. It leads to habits of indolence and even crime. Look at the number of officers ruine d by the ir extravagan ce. Look a t the situation of the office of sheriff of Cook county;at the treasurer of St. Louis. All these are taxes upon the industry of the county. A poor young man comes to get a deed recorded, the first deed of his life; he steps proudly into the office; he is a freeholder; his countenance falls when he finds he must work two or three days to make money enough to get it recorded, whiP,e the clerk is occupied about ten minutes in recording it. I hope the provision will be adopted and carried out. I love to see men getting rich by industry. I despise men when I see them getting rich from office —rich from "fees.' It ought not to be allowed-sought not to be tolerated in the community. Mr. BROMWELL. Mr. Chairman: I regard the matter embraced in this section as the most troublesome in the article, perhaps in the while Constitution. The community will not be satisfied if this Convention should adjourn and leave this whole question of county fees where it is. They ought not to be satisfied. We are in duty bound to correct the abuses which have grown up under the present system. Now, there are in'thisarticle two points I wish to call attention to. In the first place, there is nothing here compelling the salary to be collected. out of these fees. The salary comes, whether the fees are collected or not. We should make the salary hinge upon the collection, so that, if no more is collected, that much should be collected at any rate. In the second place, this unfortunate provision about clerk hire, which opens the door for every species of grasping Mr. MOORE. Mr. Chairman: It is to be audited by the county board. Mr. BROMWELL. Mr. Chairman: It does not so appear, sir. It appears the county board shall fix the compensation of all county officers, but shall not make it more than fifteen hundred dollars, and so on, going through the gradations, till it comes to this clerk-hire and perquisites. It cuts off the power of the board to say what it shall be. It does nlot say that the board shall fixs it; and I hope that will be attended to. Now, sir, I know it is a doubtful question, to some extent, whether it wiil not raise a difficult;y in county boards by the lobbying of officers; and that may be an objection to this report. But, there will b~e lobbying, either about the b~oard or the Legislature, with this difference, that a set of county officers have, generally, but one man to lobby in the Legislature, and from ten to fifteenl in most of the counties. It will not do for us to go off and leave this to the Legislature to fix,, for the reason they will never fixs it, for reasons which all can understands-not that I mean that the Legislatulre would be more extravagant than this Conlvention in fixing fees or salaries, for the Legislature has never been extravagant in allowing fees and salaries -abut the fees have amcumulated to too great an amount —hai is the complaint. The Legislature will be I CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION TUESDAT, 1342 pay this cost, and then take his opinion ,on this enormity. Again, take a deed. Ten or fifteen years ago it was recorded for sevedty-five cents or one dollar. Now it is from one ,dollar and fifty cents to two dollars and fifty cents. It is true this is a little item, but it is so much taken from the property and the labor of the country and put into the hands of whom? Of a man who has for ten years spent his time in whittling goods boxes and telling all sorts of stories about his political enemies. He is the man who is rewarded, the man who can go round and stir up all the ill-feelilg in the i2eighborhood. Adopt this section, and when a Convention meets, or if there is no Convention, which I hope will be the truth, the citizens will go and ask good men-men of standin-, men of industry, men of economy-to take this office and discharge the duty for them, and they will accept it. There will be no stealing and no negligence in collecting or paying over their fees. I am not afraid or 1 hose men who get little'Salarie,,a, accept offices with smali salaries, doil,g the stealing. I am afraid of those men whose services are worth so i-nuch. that are so necessary in organizid,g and keeping up the political strife of the country. They say their services are so valuable that we must pay them well therefor. I propose to let off, discharge, upon their own recoo,,nizances, all that class of men; let them go and be producers instead of consumers. How is it about rec,,)rdiDg? There are immense improve -ments in all these ,offices. For instance, in recording, the county procures f*r the recorder printed duplicates of warraaty deeds, quit claim deeds, common mortgages, and common deeds of trust, bound in books. Then the circuit clerk's office will give to any one a deed that is an exact duplicate of the deed in the book; and, I am told, by good men, that a single clerk can re. cord sixty of these deeds in a day. It ,has been done in my county. He fills in on the record the dates, names, consideration and description of deeds, and that is all he has to do. For that lie gets, on an average, ninety dollars a day. [[Iere the hammer fell.] Mr. UNDERWOOD. The gentleman can have my time. ri th utleman sir. Mr. ENGLISH. Will the gentleman allow me to ask him a question? 31r.310ORE. Gentlemensaythesefees willnotbecollected,becauseit will not be the duty of the officer to collect them. +,he law be framed as it should be. be framed as it should be, -o trouble in collectlDg - favoritism. It ' —tween APRIL:19,!18Z()~ DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1343 see very well, I think, as the gentleman from Coles [Mr. Bromwell] has well pre sented it, how the objects of that limita tion may be defeated under the cover of clerk hire, fuel and stationery. For we have learned in this Convention that "stationery" means a great deal; and "clerk hire, stationery and fuel," in ad dition to the amount limited to be paid to the officer, may be made to cover the income of the entire office, zt the present extravagant rate of fees, without any reduction of fees at all. This article does not propose to reduce the rates of fees; nor does it, to my mind, coupled with the provision that may cov er the whole of it, furnish any guarantee that they will be reduced. There is this additional difficulty.' We know very well that the way these fees have been increased so high, is by influences brought to bear upon the Legislature by the county officers of the different counties, who exert their influence with their members to procure an increase of fees. The clerks of the two courts and the sheriffs constitute in this State three hundred and six officers, whose influence may all be concentrated, they all having a common interest, upon the Legislature to increase their compensation. Is there any guarantee under this system, if we allow the board of supervisors or the county courts to fix it, that the same local influences and combinations of county officers will not be brought to bear upon these boards that are. brought to bear upon the Legislature? I think that it will form a nucleus fir rings in the counties around these boards, and that we have no guarantee that there will not be favoritism and corruption there as to these allowances, as well as in the Legislature. I think, then, Mr. Chairman, that the best cure for this evil is to provide, as the gentleman from Coles [MIr. Bromwell] has suggested, an early day at which this present system of fees shall be stopped, that the Legislature shall be required to provide a new system of fees, and that no person holding a county or township office shall be allowed to be interested, during the term of his office, in any increase of fees. In other words, that whenever the Legislature shall provide a fixed compensation for these officers, there shall be no increase of fees take effect during the incumbency of any officer then in office, but that the increase shall be prospective. We will thus relieve the Legislature from this influence and the pressure of interested officers all over the State to increase their emol fh ments, their fees and their compensation; and if by a provision of the Constitution it is rendered impossible for the Legislature to increase the fees of the officerer during his continuance in office, we will never find that officer around the Legislature asking for an increase of fees. When we take away the motive, we take away the influence; and if the Legislature were let alone and cut loose from this influence, their natural instincts -would be to do right, and they would provide only a reasonable compensation. I therefore believe that a provision in the Constitution, that the system of fees shall end, that the Legislature shall be required to provide a new system of fees, at a reac sonable rate, that no incumbent in office shall be interested in the increase of fees during his continuance in office, and that 1 i t t t t t t t i t r APRIL 19, 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1313 surrounded by the interested officers from every county; and each set will push its own representatives on this floor and induce them to let it alone; and it will be let alone forever. Therefore, this Convention, if it does nothing else, should provide a certain time at which the present sy'stem shall ,stop, and then let tile Legislature make a new regulation. I would not be afraid of the Legislature. If the Convention will reflect, they will see that th3 Legislature never gave any officers very high salaries. It is by these little picayune fees that salaries are brought to their present enormous amouat. We must, in order that somethidg may be done by the Legislature, fix a time when the present system shall stop. i urge, that whatever else we do, we stop the present svstem, either directl.V, or at the termination of the terms of office of the present incumbents, and that we never allow any such mode of ,compensation as clerk hire, fuel, etc., or .any other allowance which can be made a cover under which to defeat all we have done. The people cannot deal with an officer when he is allowed by a constitutional provision clerk hire and fuel, and all these tbidgs. His clerk hire, fuel, etc., may be ten thousand dollars. It will be a complete cover under which to grasp that which we have taken from him by this article. If there shall be a power left in the county board to fix the compensation of the county officers, let them fix the perquisites as well, and then they will at lea4,;-t know what they are doing. But it will be far better to have no such provisiou at all. All county officers know about what clerk hire and fuel are, and the board can fix a round sum, and require the sheriff or clerk to collect it out .of the fees, and if he does not do it, let -him go without it-,not first pay him a salary, but, make it dependent on the office. And Ps to the overpILis of fees, I think the substitute of the gentleman from Stark [Air. Fuller] is a good one, for it will leave an incentive to the officers to go on and collect; and as he says, it is worth something to the officers to go on and collect and take care of the fees. Mr. RICE. Mr. (hairman: It is rath ii rule u on this the fees shall be by general, and not by special laws, will be the best solution of' the dffieutty that has beeu presented to my mind. One of the evils now is this system of special legislation; and the members of the Legislature have come to regard it very much as a matter in which the representatives of particular counties are interested. If the representatives of two, three or four or a dozen counties say that they are willing that the fees of county officers shall be increased, when they do not propose to affect the fees in any other counties, the responsjbility of those acts is usually left by the Le!zislature to the members who represent those counties. Because it does not affect a general interest, the balance of the members throw th6 responsibility upon the. representatives of thd counties affected. But under a system of general laws, a majority of the whole Legislature cannot be brought to indorse the very extravagant rates of fees that exist in certain counties and localities of the State. Mr. MEDILL. Will the gentleman permit me to ask him a question? Do I understand him a,s advocating a revised and reformed fee bill for the compensation of county officers, or as a supplement to fixed salaries, as provided in the see. tion under considerations Mr. RICE. I am inclined, myself, to abandon the plan of fixed salaries by these county boards as impracticable. I am for providing in the Constitution that the present system of fees shall be stopped at au early day; that the Legislature shall, be required to establish a uew system of fees, and that the persons in office at the time the fees are established, whenever there is an increase, shall not be benefited by an increased rate of fees during the time of the incumbent, thus giving them no motive to stru- le for an increase of fees. Mr. HAY. Mr. Chairman: This matter of regulating the fees of county officers is one of vast importance to the people of this State. - I have no doubt that the, people of this State pay, in the aggregate, more than one million dollars a year, over and above what is a valuabie compensation for the discharge of the duties of these county officers. I base that upon reasonable premises, from which the calculation is made. CONSTJT UTIONAL COYENTION TUESDAY, article shall not be construed as depriving the General Assembly of the power to reduce the fees of existing incumbents of said offices. "All laws fixing the fees of the State, county and township officers, etc." The system has run into the matter of allowing fees to the State officers as well as county officers. As a general rule, township officers have not had extravagant fees, except in the casees of fees of collector s. In the township in which I live, I understand the collector can make by the discharge of his duty for a few months, in the collection of taxes in his township, from $4,000 to $5,000, and it is so in any populous and wealthy township in the State. Mr. MEDILL. Will the gentleman permit me if I interrupt him? One of the collectors in Chicago made over $20,000, last year, from three months' work. Mr. HAY. Now, Mr. Chairman, the committee will understand I first prepared this substitute, providing that these laws should terminate with the terms of the officers in existence at the time of the adoption of the Constitution. In considering that matter, however, it occurred to me that some officers, sheriffs, and some others, are elected this fall. If our Constitution is put to vote this fall there would be no law existing for the regulation of sheriffs' fees, between the time of the adoption of the Constitution and the meeting of the Legislature; and I thought proper to make the provision as I have read it. Mr. WHEATON. Mr. Chairman: Will the gentleman allow me to suggest an amendment? Add to end of section the following: "But no county, city or town officer in any county, shall receive to his own use, in any one year, an amount of fees exceeding in the aggregate four thousand dollars." Mr. HAY. MJr. Chairman: II would have no objection to an amendment of that sort. I have considered this matter very seriously. I am satisfied that some steps ought to be taken, and this will come nearer effecting the object we have in view than anything proposed thus far. I am satisfied that any plan by which the fees shall go into the county treasury will be impracticable, besides being distasteful to the larger part of the people of the State. And, further, it would set the ingenuity of these officers to work, to devise ways and mea~ns, and to bring influences to work, so as to defeat any practical benefit that might come out ef the system. The true system is to provide that the Legislature be disenthralled. There will always be numbers of experienced men in the General Assembly, competent to frame a proper fee-bill, so as to guard the State, and provide a living compenlsation for the officer. Disenthral the Legs islature first. Let the assembly act upon the subject at a time when these interested influences shall not exist, that will combine to operate upon them if they undertake to fix the fees so as to affect existing offce-holders. Then provide, as is here provided, that once the fees are reduced to a proper basis, no after increase shall be made which will increase the incomes of these officers. If we can do this I think we shall effect a, very desirable and good work. Mr. ANTHIONY. Mr. Chairman: This question of fees and salaries is admitted,i by all those who have investigated it, to [Here the hammer fell.] ["Go oA!"...go oDn!"] Mr. HAY. Let me say that this has been going on for the last three or four sessions of the Legislature. It commenced under the pretext that when greenbacks went down, fees should be increased. Some of the smaller counties of the State came here under that pretext, and in the larger counties, where the fees were already enormous, the officers said as the fees in the other counties had been increased,'theirs should be increased also, and they went on so that two-thirds of the counties have been put under the operation of the special list in regard to the increasing of fees. I will read for the information of the committee the headings of some statutes passed at the last session: An act in relation to the fees of the State's attorney in the seventh judicial circuit. An act to amend an act entitled "An act in relation to the fees of certain county officers in certain counties therein named." An act to repeal certain acts therein named. An act reducing, regulating and fixing the fees of certain county and other officers in certain counties therein named. An act to regulate the fees of county officers of the county of Fayette. An act to amend an act in relation to the fees of certain officers in certain counties therein named, approved February 16, 1865; and also an act entitled "An act in relation to fees of county officers in certain counties," approved March 7, 1867. An act to repeal the increased fees of certai n officers in the county of Hamilton. An act to amend an act entitled "An act to amend an act in relation to the fees of certain officers t certain counties therein named," approved February 26, 1867; and also to amend an act entitled "An act to amend an act to regulate the fees and compensation of sheriffs and collectors, in force in certain counties," approved February 26, 1867. An act to amend an act entitled "An act to amend an act to regulate the fees and compensation of sheriffs and collectors in certain counties," approved February 26, 1867. An act to repeal certain laws increasing the fees of certain officers in Kendall county. An act in relation to the fees of certain officers in Peoria county. An act in relation to the fees of certain officers in the counties of Pike and Scott. An act to increase the fees and compensation of sheriff in Vermilion county. This has been the system. The first thing, as I remarked before, is to get back to a uniform system, and that can only be done by providing for the termination of all existing laws in reference to fees of county officers, that we may put the Legislature in a condition to legislate about this matter properly, free from the influences which will inevitably be brought to bear upon them, if their action is to affect the feesof existing incumbents. We must disenthral the Legislature of that influence, in the first place. And how shall we do that? tWe can attempt to do it, by a provision in the substitute, which I will now read for the committee: been increased by special legislation. The off icers of the county have combined with t he m ember representing the county, and have come in here and asked an increase of the fees, with respect to. the particular county represented by the member. The balance of the Legislature have said, -"Oh, as it is a matter affecting your county particularly, and not affecting ours, take it, if you want it;" and these burdens h ave b een from te o time to time heaped upon t he p eople of this and other count ies. MrSH.ENGLIS. Mr. Chai rman: I s it proposed in this article, or other articles to interfere with the fee bill? Could it not still be collected and taken from the pockets of those interested then, as well as now? Mr. HAY. Mr. Chairman: I will come to that in due time. I have given to this subject as much serious consideration. as any member. I have said nothing about it heretofore, although the attention of the Convention has been frequently called to this enormous compensation, and these enormous fees. I said nothing about it at the time, intending, at the proper moment, to present my viems and my proposition, with respect to the mode of getting relief from these exactions. Now, sir, I entirely agree with the views presented by the gentleman from Montgomery [Mlr. Rice], and the gentleman from Coles [Mr. Bromwell], that the proposition embodied in the seventh section, reported by the Committee on Counties, will not fully cover the case. I agree entirely in spirit, and am in harmony with the object contemplated by the worthy chairman [Mr. Craig], and his committee on this subject. But I do not think the proposttion will cure the evil. I think the true remedy is, to reduce the fees of the officersrto a fair living compensation; and I do not think this proposition reaches that point. It provides for no reduction of fees to the offices. These exorbitant fees may continue to exist, and be collected, the officer retaining his salary out of them, or paying into the treasury, and then the treasury paying back a salary, leaving open the gap for the exercise of every species of ingenuity by which, however great may be the fees collected, they will eventually be pocketed, under some pretext or other, before they get into the county treasury. I have seen the operation of that system under the United States law, as respects our clerks and marshals. I do not think it reaches the evil. So far as mv experience goes with respect to the United States law on the subject, under some pretest or other, although those same provisions exist as are contemplated in the seventh section, the fees all get into the hands of the officers. Now, sir, entertaining these views, I have drawn a substitute for this whole provision in regard to fees, which, so far as I have been able to mature it, covers the whole ground, and I will read it, not knowing whether it is in order or not. As the gentleman says, the first step is to provide for the operation of existing laws upon the subject —to terminate these laws. Until that is done, we cannot get back to uniformity with respect to fees. I had intended to read from the statutes of the last winter session of 1869, to show~ the various special laws under which these fees have been increased in the va~riousn countiesnf: All laws fixing the fees of State, county, and township officers shall terminate with the terms of the incumbents in office, at the meeting of the first General Assembly after the adoption of this Constitution, and the General Assembly shall by general law, uniform in its operation, provide for, and regulate the fees of the successors to said 6fflicers so as to reduce the same to a reasonable compensation for the services rendered. But the General Assembly may classify the counties, and regulate the fees of those officersr according to business and population. No increase of the fees of any of said officers shall be allowed to take effect as to any incumbent, when such increase is made. This e s s e e t s e c s I 7 J-D!, I " L CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION TuF,sDA-Y, DEBATES AND PROOEEDINGS. be rouciv o g'et vis n urStte.ma fomSagaon[M. la] ay, ha al; ndtht o onerag tanlat ee man from Sangamon [Mr. Hay] says, that in the very county in which we are now assembled, the clerks receive $20,000 or $30,000 per year. Now, sir, I say that if any man alive in the United States-a mere clerk, I mean -receives for his compensation $20,000 or $10,000 a year, he receives, in my judgment, altogether too much for his services, -much more than they are worth. I can see no difficulty whatever in a county board sitting down and saying how much a clerk of a circuit court or a county court shall receive. Why, sir, these county boards, in this State, are entrusted with the management of all the offices of a county, and down in Macoupin county, a county board has run that county in debt a million of dollars.. It is perfectly competent for that. A board of supervisors in any county will run that county in debt $500,000. Perfectly competent for that; and so it is with all. These county boards all over our State, whether under township organization or not, are perfectly competent to manage all the affairs of the county, to run the county in debt thousands on thousands (f dollars, and the records of the Auditor's office will show to-day, that these county boards have run the State of Illinois, in the various counties in the State, in debt to an extent of millions of dollars. Now, sir, this section reported here by the Co:i,mittee upon Counties, it seems to me, will meet every difficulty, and will solve this problem, if gentlemen but understand it. What is it, sir? It is that the county board shall fix the compensation of all county officers. I hold that a county officer should not fix his own salary. It is not the business of a man whom we elect as our servant, to fix his own salary. Are gentlemen perfectly satisfied to sit here and virtually say that if the county clerk of Sangamon county does receive from the people of the county $15,000 or $20,000, they have nothing to say about it? I am perfectly willing that the clerk of this county, or any other county, shall receive fair compensation for his services, but nothing more. These public offices t should not be places for individuals to resort to and mine in, with perfect disregard to the public. Now, gentlemen say that if we pay these men salaries by fees, we cannot col - lect these fees. With all due respect to everybody, I do not believe a word of it. I believe that a law can be framed by any lawyer upon the floor, providing that. it shall be made the duty of a public officer to collect the fees, for instance, that are incident to litigation, and, that, if he does not collect them, he shall be made punishable by fine, and removal from office, or even sent to the penitentiary. Any lawyer can form a law like that. Now, what is the state of things in this respect in the United States courts? Why, sir, the clerks of the United States courts receive three thousand five hundred dollars each per year. They are obliged to collect every single dollar of the costs, and to report them to the secretary of the interior. If they do not do their duty, they can be removed from office. I visited the clerk's office of the United States court in the city of Chicago, to obtain some information upon this subject, and was told by that clerk that there was no difficulty about collecting fees at be produc tive of gcea t ev il s in our State. We have before us this morning in the report submitted by the Committee on Counties, a remedy, and that is that these various county officers shall be paid for their services, salaries instead of fees. I have given some attention to this subject, and if the committee will give me their attention for a few minutes, I will briefly give them my views of this matter. I see no difficulty in it. I agree with the gentleman from DeWitt [Mr. Moore] in his remarks this morning. I see no reason why we cannot fix the salary of a clerk of a court equally as well as that of a judge; nor why we cannot fix the salary of a clerk or judge, as well as that of the Governor of the State of Illinois. Some gentlemen seem satisfied that these large fees shall flow into the pockets of the office holders, and there remain-fees sometimes amounting to fifty thousand dollars; but I am not satisfied, nor are my constituents satisfied with that system. It is the greatest evil in my cou-ty; no other can compare with it. For years we have been suffering under this system, and I believe it is the most vllainous system ever devised. This evil had progressed so far that at, the last fall elecoti)n, the republican party, when they met in convention to nominate their officers, passed certain resolutions instructing these who were to represent them in this Convention, to take heed. I will read the resolution adopted on this subject, reported by one of the delegation on this floor [Mr. Medill], as ciairmaan of the committee on resolu tions in the republican convention, on the fourteenth of September last: Resolved, That the candidates for the Convention are hereby instructed to exert their best endeavors to have inserted in the new Constitution, a provision reducing the excessive compensation of county officers to fair and reasonable salaries, and to have all personal emoluments paid into the county treasury. The convention of the people that was called a short time after that, by a general uprising of the masses of that county, irrespective of all party issues, passed the following: Second. That the compensation of all officers shall be salaries, fair and reasonable in amount, and that all surplus fees and emoluments shall be paid into the public treasury. Those who represent the county of Cook upon this floor, hold their cornmissionsunder and by virtue of those resolutions. Mtr. Chairman: I agree with the gentleman from DeWitt [Mr. Moore], that under our government these offices belong to the people, instead of to the in: divid-ual, and that those individuals should notreeieve these vast amounts of fees for their own personal aggrandizement. I say that no man in this country ought to receive anything more than a fair compensation for his services, and I know of no reason why a clerk of a court in this State should receive $5,000, $10,000, $20,000, $40,000, $60~000, or $80,000 per year, when thejxadges of the supreme court only receive a salary of, at the outside, from $5,000 to $6,000. Now, gentlemen upon this floor will stand and debate for days as to whether we pay a judge of the supreme court $3,000, or $5,000, or $6,000 a year, when as to the question of paying clerks, it is an admitted fact, the gentl A.PRTL 19, 1870, 1345 all; and thatuo longer ago than last week h,3 paid into the United States treasury sot-nething like five or six thousand dollars over and above his own salary. How is it -fixed in regard to clerks? Under the United States system, the subordinates and deputy clerks are provided for, and the number and the compensation are fixed by the secretary of the interior. I was t,)Id by that clerk that when the honorable gentleman from Adams [Mr. Browning] was secretary of the interior, that matter was referred to his department, and the amount allowed to the clerk for clerk hire, in the circuit clerk's office, and in the district clerk's office, in the United States court, was eight thousand dollars. The amount allowed, in the city of New York, to the clerks of the United States circuit and district courts for clerk hire, is jus nine thousand dollars, and in tha district alone, there was, last year, paid i6to the United States treasury more than twenty thousand dollars over and above all the expenses. [Here the hamnaer fell.] ["Go on."] Mr. ANTHONY. They tell me these fees will never be collected. I say again that I beg leave to differ with gentlemen. I believe that we can make a law by which they shall be collected, and will be collected, and how. As the gentleman from DeWitt [Mr. Moore] says, whenever a man enters one of those offices, let him give bond that he will see they are collected. It is perfectly useless to say that men elected or appointed to those public offices will notdo their duty.. If they will iiot, we may as well say that our government is a failure, and abolish these o. ffices entirely. But I wish to say to the Convention, another thing about this matter. If gentlemen do not want the system in their counties, are they wiili.,-ig that we of the larger counties shall have the system? We know what the evils are in our countv. The gentleman from Jo Daviess [Mr. Cary], when this matter was up, before the recess, was very willing to refer to the Committee of the Whole this matter which was reported from the Judiciary Comi-nittee, to be taken tip when the report came up. I ask, again, if you do not want the s stem for our coun ies ar 1346 CONSTITUTIONAL COYENTJO TUDAY, read the substitute, for information. It is as follows: After the word "officers," in first line, strike out "but," and add, "which shall, in no instance, exceed the legal fees collected for their services as such officers of said board." Mr. BROMWELL. Mr. Chairman: I rise for information. If the question is o n striking out, are there any amendments pending? Substitutes and amendments have been read, for information, simply? The CHAIRMAN. The question is on striking out section seven. Yr. BROMWELL. Then section seven is subject to amendment, as long as amendments are offered. Mr. CROSS. Mr. Chairman: If that be the case, I will send up my amendment, and move its adoption. Mr. HAYES. Mr. Chairman: I understand that substitutes have been offered already. The CHAIRMAN. The Clerk informs the Chair that none of these substitutes have been regularly offered, but simply read for information. The question now is, therefore, on the amendment offered by the gentleman from Winnebago [Mr. Cross]. The Clerk read the amendment offered by Mr. Cross, as follows: After the word "officers," in first line, strike out "but," and add, "which shall, in no instance, exceed the legal fees collected for their services as such officers of said board." Mr. ARCHER. Mr. Chairman': The amendment offered by the gentleman from Winnebago [Mr. Cross] relieves my mind of one difficulty connected with this section. It occurred to me that where salaries are fixed as they are in this section, according to population, it might happen that the fees in some county or counties might not be sufficient to pay the prescribed salary, and that in that event the office would, to the extent of the deficiency, be a tax upon the people at large. It occurs to me that the amendment offered by the gentleman from Winnebago [Mr. Cross] perfects the section to that extent, and in my opinion relieves it of that embarrassment. I am opposed to the motion to strike this section out, for the reason that I believe it contains a principle that ought to be secured in the Constitution of this State in some way or other. I agree with every gentleman who has spoken upon this question, that it is surrounded with difficulties. While the people demand, and have a right to do so, that some constitutional limitation shall be secured by this Convention upon this great and growing evil in this State, under which the people of the different counties are labor ing, yet, how to give them an adequate remedy, presents a question which is surrounded with difficulty. I believe it may be done, however, and this section perfected in some way or other, to secure the people from these enormous exactions upon their pockets for services rendered by county officers, and yet give to every officer, in every county an adequate compensation for the services he renders. Mr. Chairman, it is impossible for this Convention, as has been remarked by every gentleman who has spoken upon this floor, to overlook this evil that now exists in this State and provide no check upon future legislation in regard to it. I like ve ry w ell many o f the features contained in the proposed substitute of the gentleman fromn Sangamon [Mr. Hay], but I see nothing in it (as remarked by the gentleman ~rom Cook [Mr. Anthony]) that is inconsistent with the secton now in the report, or which, if it be adopted, would require this section to be stricken out. One simply relates to the fixing of salaries, and the other aiding it to that extent by reduction of fees under exist ing laws; so that while the people are relieved from these exhorbitant fees, the particular persons having the services rendered, shall be relieved from the ex cessive fees existing under the present laws. But, this difficulty occurs to my mind, with regard to the substitute of the gen tleman from Sangamon [Mr. Hay]. Sup pose these laws are terminated under the substitute with the expiration of the terms of the present incumbents -what is there to prevent the legislative power from enacting these laws again? It seems to me there must be some consti tutional restraint. And I am in favor of fixing some salaries for all these officers. Look at the facility with which county business is now transacted. It has been referred to and clearly demonstrated by the gentleman from DeWitt [Mr. Mloore]. Take the recorder's office under the old system. I speak from experience, for I have been clerk of the court and recorder of my county, and I know it was a pretty good job for a clerk to record ten or fif teen deeds a day, when the fees then were less than one-half of what are paid these officers now. Then only about one-sixth of the labor could be done in a day that can under the present system. A set of books is now purchased with blanks of every kind of deed and mortgage. And as is said by the gentleman from DeWitt [Mr. Moore], nothing now is necessary but to "fill in" the names of parties, con sideration and description of property, and the recording is done; and sixty deeds, perhaps, may be recorded a day without doing a hard day's work. When deeds had to be recorded at length, the labor was not only much greater in re cording, but also in comparing, for they all had to be read over, word by word. Now, while these greater facilities have been furnished, it is also true that the fees ha-,,e been doubled perhaps trebled. The same remarks as to increased fees apply to other officers. EUnder these circumstances, sir, I think it would be most unwise fox this body to adjourn and leave this evil unredressed. It would be an abuse cf trust to do so. I want this section, as it is, to be retained, that it may be amended in some way or other. We should reach the remedy that is demanded by the people of every county in the State. It is not right that county {)fficers should get five or ten thousand dollars per annual in fees. Moreover, it creates a struggle for office, and too often provokes appliances of all kinds, foul and Skir, to secure office anld place. I have no desire to detract from the proper compensation of any officer- I have no desire to reduce his fees below a fair compensation, but I do hold that it is time that lessons of economy were taught by this Convention. [H~ere the hammer fell.] Mr. PERLEY. Mr. Chairman: As some gentleman has said, I do not know whether I am in favor o~ this section, a~ these fees will not amount to enough to pay the salaries of their officers, and they will have to be paid out of the county treasu ry, b ut I thi nk t hat they are mis taken. I wish to say that I am not for paying these men one dollar out of the county treasury at all. Let them be paid in fees; but if they receive more than their services are worth, from those fees, let all over and above that go into the county treasury, and no t go to est ablish and m a tintain these men a aaristocrats or nobles These officers are public officers, and we ought not to encourage any system of personal aggrandizement at public expense. I see no difficulty whatever, in the board of supervisors or the county boards of this State fixing these salaries. There are men upon this floor who have been members of boards of supervisors and who are members of those boards now, and they are just as capable of fixing these things as the General Assembly. There is no difficulty ina their sitting down and saying what the services of the circuit clerk, or the county clerk, or the county treasurer are worth in the county. I agree with the gentleman from Kane [Mr. Wheaton], that no clerk in this State should receive a salary above $5,000. We can get any kind of a clerk here, the best in the country for $2,000 or $3,000. If any man will go through the departments at Washington, he will find last year, not lees than three governors of States upon a salary of $1,800 per year. The fee system in this State has not one single -thing to recommend it. It is a system liable to abuse, enriching the individual at the public expense, and should be abolished, teetotally and entirely. Therefore, I am for retaining this section seven, just as it stands, and my word for it, that individual will do his duty. As I said, we can get abundance of clerks-the best in the land, for from two to three thousand dollars a year. I know of no preliminary education a man has to go through in order to enable him to be a clerk of a court.. These officers get themselves elected, and then educate themselves after they get into the office. .Now, the provision offered by the gentleman from Sangamon [Mr. Hay] does not conflict at all with the provisions of thi_s seventh section. It may be made an additional section. I agree with one portion of the remarks of the gentleman from Coles [M{r. Bro~m-~ wellJ, that the people of this State will not be satisfied if we return to our homes, after completing our labors here, without~ having done something to fixs this qulestion o~f salaries and lees, and to put an end to this corrupting system that is practiced in all the large counties of our State. Unrless we do, I believe the people of the EState will be greatly dissatisfied with our work. When we adopt a prinaciple similar to this, in theory, at least, we shall hare fullfilled the instructions of some, at least, of our constituents who have sent us under such directions as I read at the commencement of my remarks. Mr. CROSS. Mr. Chairman: I wish to offer ~a substitute for the seventh sec*.o non. The CHAIRMAN. No substitutes sare in order. The motion flow is to strike out section seven. Mr. CROSS. Mr. Chaiman- I will CONSTITUTIONAL CON'VENTION TUE,SDAY, 1346 DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. t out for and guards carefully the interests :- of his own town. These supervisors are well acquainted with these officers, and are not ignorant e of the receipts of the offices. They know what their fees have hitherto been, and - they mean that they shall be reduced. I know that they scrutinize carefully all f the accounts brought before them, and e that they are capable of seeing to it, that , the county and circuit clerks report - everything that they receive. I know one y cannot get a pauper bill through there, of e ten dollars, unless it is right and ought to be paid. I know that it has come to e be the rule, that the proceedings of the board of supervisors are published in the L county papers, in each one If them, and that every one looks over those bills; and e that if a supervisor should collude with l a clerk, and not hold him to a strict ac s count, that the fees should be so collected, s and paid over, that the people might not s have the benefit of them, but the clerk should be allowed more than his due that supervisor would be hurried out, and the people would send one back the next time who would do his duty. Leave this to the board of supervisors, who knows all about the business, and they will see that the fees are collected, because they are interested in it; and they will see the clerk does not receive any more than he , ought to. Gentlemen admit that this is a wrong; and I tell them there is a remedy for it. We all know it. It will not do for us to admit that we cannot remedy it. After the resolution, introduced by the gentle man from McHenry [Mr. Church], yester day, looking to railroads, cutting the Gordian knot, and declaring that what the courts have heretofore declared "pri vate corporations" are public ones, we ought not to shrink from the duty that lies before us in this matter. We admi it that it is wrong. Will gentlemen then admit that they cannot remedy it? Th e y can remedy it. We have here no cha rtered corporations intrenched in im- muneities, granted by ourselves, to contend with; only some of our own pampered servants. Let us reduce their corpulence to a healthy condition. If we do not do it, the people-your constituents and mine -w ill say, and rightly, too, it was be-, cause we did not really want to. i Shall we say that this a difficult task, ] and shirk it? Shall we say that it is an 1 unpleasant duty, and shrink from it, and i turn it over to a future Legislature? We were elected to do this thing. The peo- o ple expect this of us, and let us not dare p to disappoint them. Mr. GAMBLE. Mr. Chairman: I oppose the striking out of this seventh seec- ( tion. The section, down to the eighth X line, I think, appears fair and honest, but i after agreeing to pay an officer a fair sala- ( ry or compensation, adds, in the ninth f line, the words "in addition to the clerk X hire, stationery and fuel." i cNow, Mr. Chairman, I can see that this ( is throwing the door of the public crib ( wide open, and giving authority to one or two hungry fellows to step up, in addi- c tion to the elective officers, and gnaw at the c public treasury. Mr. Chairman, I go for t driving a constitutional spike in the door a of the public crib, closing it up against s these additions, telling these officers in i plain figures what we will pay them, and tr allowing no stealings whatever. t Therefore, I move to amend by striking ( reported, or in favor of some amendment to it; but I am in favor of the views ex p ressed b y my fri end from DeWitt [lr Moore]. As has been said, this is o ne of tha most important questions that has bee or wille bog be brought before this Conven tion. I t c omes home to the Docket ang h so to the feelings of every tax payer ot the State. It is one in which the people of the whole State take a deep interest and ought to. Tli y feel that the pres ent receipts of the circuit and count) clerks are out of all proportion to the worth of the services rendered. The) have, had their attention called to the * amounts paid these servants, they know they are enormously large, and they call for their reduction. There is hardly a man but knows that he has to pay one dollar and sixty cents for recording an ordinary deed or mortgage, and that this is too much when the county furnishes the bound blank books of printed forms in which to record them. The people have an idea that the print ers of these blanks, Culver, Page & Hoyne, are in combination with the vari ous clerks of the courts of thisState. We have to pay one dollar and sixty cents for recording a lo g form which is fur nished by them, while the people know that our warrantee deed is no better than the forms used in Indiana and Iowa, which are scarce more than one-tenth as long. Our titles are no better, with their verbiage and surplusage, than those of Indian and Iowa, which are brief. The people want to break up-what seems to be this combination against their interests. The people know these clerks and collectors receive vastly more for their services than what they would be willin,g to perform them for. In my county, at the last election, some of the candidates for collector pledged themselves if elected, to pay over all over a hundred dollars of their fees into the treasury -that it should not be taken away Irom the people. Men have been elected nearly every season on that issue, in my county. My constituents know that these collectors and clerks receive much more than they ought to have, and they desire that the evil be remedied. They have expressed their views to me in regard to this, more clearly than upon any other question, and their views are all onle way-inl favor of clerks and collectors not being paid more than judges — against inferior o,fficers being paid more than superior ones. I go for reduction of the receipts of these officers, because they are enormous —because they are an outrage e.n the people, a swindle on the tax payer, and a libel on the maxim that "the l'aborer is worthy of his hire." I go fear reduction because it is right, because nmy people desire it, and because I once, unwvittingly, to do a favor to a good man and a friend, got the fees for recording in my county increased. It is a maxim of the common law, that there is no wrong without a remedy; and we can remedy this wrong. Menl say here that if officers are al lowed to collect these fees, they will never go into the treasury; that the supervisors cannot get them to pay them over. But gentlemen all know that in counties under township organization, thei people elect their very best business and I financial men supervisors, and each 1ooke I t c s t i c t d I d h I t k e d t .s e y e e s r t t t APP.IL -19) 1870. 1347 out all after the word "inhabitants," in the UiUth line, down to and including the word "fuel," in the tenth line. Mr. Ui';DERWOOD. Mr. Chairman: Listening to the discussion, I believe all desire that these officers should be allow ed a reasonable compensation; that they should not be paid that compensation out of the public treasury, but out of fees, and that they should in some way be in duced to collect the surplus fees, and pay them into the county treasury. Now, what is the best way to accomplish this? We have two qystems of organization in this State-the board of supervisors and the board of county commissioners. The first line says "the county board." Does that mean the board of supervisors or the board of county commissioners, or either.? It may, perhaps, be broad enough to cover either. If there is any doubt about it, it ought to be modified. The amendment proposed by the gen tleman from Winnebago [Mr. Cross], if I understand it, requires that salaries shall be fixed, not to exceed the amount of compensation collected by those county oflicers for fees. If that is the proposition, it would certainly very much perfect this section, and I hope it will be so amended. Then we must bear in mind that there are quite a number of officers here to be provided for. For instance, the county judge, the sheriff, the countv clerk, the clerk of the circuit court, ricorder, treasurer (and assessor in counties where there is tto township organization) surveyors, and coroners. The compensation for these officers should be fixed, and an allowance made for incidental expenses. I want to say to my friend on the right, [Mr. Gamble], that there ought to be al. lowance for clerk hire, stationery and fuel. In a county like the one where I reside, it is necessary to have two clerks tothe circuit court department, and two in the recorder's department. They should have the power to fix the compensation of the principal clerk and his assistants, and the necessary ircidental expenses of the officer. Hence, the words "clerk hire, stationery and fuel" are very proper there. So, also, with reference to the county court, or county commissioners' court, as it was formerl 1348 CO~~~~STITUTJONAL CONVE~~~~~TIO~~ TUESDAY,~~ After the word "officers" in first line,strike out "but" and add "which shall in no instance exceed the legal fees collected for their services as such officers of said board." Mr. HAINES, of Cook. Mr. Chairman: I offer the following which the gentleman from Winnebago accepts, as a part of his amendment: Add after the word "officers," in the first line, "and their deputies and clerks." Strike out the word "them" in the second line, and insert "the county officers." Mr. HAYES. I move a substitute for the amendment of the gentleman from Winnebago [Mr. Cross]. Mr. MERRIAM. I do not intend to yield the floor. The CHAIRMAN. The motion of the gentleman from Tazewell [Mr. Merriam] was not in order at the time. The amendment of the gentleman from Cook [Mr. Hain es], the Chair will also decide out of order at present. The gentleman from Cook [Mr. hayes] has the floor. Mr. CROSS. Let the gentleman from Cook [Mr. Hayes] read his amendment, and I might accept it. Mr. HAYES. The gentleman from Winnebago may accept this amendment, in lieu of his own. It is as follows: Strike out the word "but," in the first line, and insert "with the amount of their necessary clerk hire, stationery and fuel, and other expenses; and in all cases where fees are provided for, the same shall be paid only out of, and shall in no instance exceed the fees actually collected. They" This question of compensation to county officers, as has been remarked by my colleague [MIr. Anthony] lhas been a question in the county of Cook, and I believe is a matter of great interest to the people of every county in the State. It is rather a difficult question to determine practically, how to arrange the compensation of these different officers in such a way as to prevent an excessive compensa-. tion, and at the same time to secure that mmotive, that stimulus, for the performance of their duties, that arises from the collection of fees. I think it is important that the evils which have been so vividly depicted by the gentleman from DeWitt [Mr. Moore] should be met by the action of this Convention. Itcertainly is not the design of the government to build up in each of the different counties and localities of the State, an aristocratic-class of politicians, who shall make their fortunes out of that which they retain from the labor of their fellow citizens. The true principle of offi cial compensation is that a man who performs services for the public, shall be paid only so much as his services are rea sonably worth. Now, sir, there is great difficulty in determining the precise amount, which ought to be paid to these different officers, in the different counties; and there are some reasons why payment by fees might be preferable as fixing a sort of measure of amount of services rendered. But, sir, the objections to the present system, and the abuses that have grown up under it, have become so great that as far as our locality is concerned, we are in favor of paying these officers by salaries; at the same time, we wish to provide in such a manner as to preserve the motive upon the (Mffiers to collect the fees. I think the amendment which I propose will substantially accomplish that object. amount due for their salaries, will be very negligent in collecting the rest and paying it into the treasury. After an vflicer has collected all that he is en titled to re ceive, he will be inclined to use the surplus as a means of electioneering for future offices, and the remainder will not be collected at all. Hence, it occurs to me that it will be preferable to give him a personal interest in the excess over that salary, if that excess were only onefourth over this salary. Now, there is justice in this. When vwe fix any arbitrary compensation for any office, the man will be a little negligent. He will not be as prompt in performing his duties as if he gets pay in proportion to the amount of service rendered. An officer who does a little work ought not to get the same compensation as one who does twice as much. Hence, if the excess is a large sum, there is justice in his getting some little portion of it to pay him for his extra labor, and we thereby present an inducement for him to collect that excess. Therefore, at the proper time, I shall move to amend this section by providing that threefourths of the amount in excess of that allowed him shall be paid into the county treasury. The section is an exceedingly important one. The people feel a deep interest in it, and if we can perfect this article and make the system practicable, we will have accomplished a good day's work. M r. MERRIAM. Mr. Chairman: I suppose a further amendment to this section which it is proposed to strike out is still in order, upon the ruling that the friends of a section have the right to perfect it before it is acted upon. The CHAIRMAN. If it is an amendment to a former amendment it will be in order. 31r. MERRIAM. Mr. Chairman: I will put it in that form then. MIy amendment is as follows: Insert after the word "fuel" in the tenth line, the following: "To be fixed and audited by the county board." The section will then read as fbllows: SEC. 7. The county board shall fix the compensation of all county officers, but shall not allow either of them more per annum than fifteen hundred dollars, in counties not exceeding twenty thousand inhabitants;two thousand dollars in counties containing twenty and not exceeding thirty thousand inhabitants; twenty-five hundred dollars in counties containing thirty and not exceeding fifty thousand inhabitants; three thousand dollars in counties containing fifty and not exceeding seventy thousand inhabitants; thirtv-five hundred dollars in counties containing seven-'y and not exceeding one hundred thousand Inhabitants; and four thousand dollars in counties containing over one hundred thousiand inhabitants-in addition to their necessarv clerk hire, stationery, and fuel, to be fixed and audited by the county board. All fees and allowances by them received, in excess of their salary, shall be paid into the county treasury. The CHAIRMAN. The Chair will state that that would not be in order as an amendment to the amendment of the gentleman from Winnebago [Mr. Cross]. It does not refer to the same matter. Mr. MERRIAM. I will wait then till tha proper time for offering it. The CHAIRMAN. The question is upon the amendment of the gentleman from Winnebago [Mr. Cross.] The Clerk read the amendment offered by Mr. Cross, as follows: -' CONSTIT-UTIONAL CON'VENTION TUESDAY, 1348 It provides that the compensation of these officers with their deputies, and their incidental expenses shall be fixed by the board, not to exceed in amount, and to be paid out of, their fees. I believe that will suit the case. I know there has been a great excess in the emoluments of some of the offices-to what extent, I do not k-aow. I have no doubt the wisdom of -this Convention is competent to devise a plan by which this difficulty can be met. I think it is accomplished in this section as proposed to be amended. With the amendment preserving a motive for collecting the fees we will substantially gain the object we have in view. I will ask the gentleman from Winnebago [Mr. Cross] whether he will not ac cept the am endment I have proposed. Mr. CROSS. Mr. Chairman: I would like to have the proposition of the gentleman from Cook [Mr. Hayes] read. The Clerk read the amendment offered by Mr. Hayes, as follows: Strike out the word "but" in the first line and insert "with the amount of their necessary clerk hire, stationery and fuel, and other expenses, lan(f in all cases where fees are provided for, the sauae shall be paid only out of, and shall in no instance exceed the fees actually collected. They.". I Mr. CROSS. Mr. Chairman: I will accept the amendment of the gentleman from Cook [Mr. Hayes]. Mr. VANDEVENTER. Mr. Chairman: I think this question has been pretty thoroughly discussed, and I hope it will be put to vote. Mr. HAY. Mr.,hairman: I would like to inqti;re what the question is? The CHAIRMAN. The question is, shall the debate come to a close? Mr. ROSS. Mr. Chairman: As I understand, the debate can be closed only upon one pending amendment. Ain I right? The CHAIRMAN. The Chair will refe.r that question to the gentleman from Fulto.-i [iNIr. Ross], as he is the author of the rule. The question is upon closidg the debate upon the substitute offered by the gentle. man from Cook [Mr. Hayes], and accepted by the gentleman from Winnebago [Mr. Cross] in place of his own amendment. Mr. ENGLISH. Mr. Chairman: If I understand the rules, the question first is on strikin out. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. county officials to deal honestly, cannot compel their county clerks and recorders to collect the fees according to law, then, sir, the public morals are very badly corrupted, and it is high time that we have a reform in this matter. We need a thorough overhauling of this whole system of fees and perquisites. It is a well know fact, sir, that in the larger counties these numerous fees accumulate a large fund in the hands of officers, become simply a corruption fund, and that a certain per centage of that income is devoted by the incumbent to his re-election. It seems to me, sir, that there can be no objection urged to this section which cannot be met by amendments, which will provide for every difficulty which any gentleman upon this floor may wish sincerely to urge. I hope, sir, that we shall have the courage to incorporate this section into our Constitution, and at least to give the peoaile of the State one evidence that we dare to do the business that they sent us here to do. Mr. HAINES, of Lake. I move the commitee now rise report progress, and ask leave to sit again at two o'clock. The motion was agreed to. ADJOURN~.rENT. Mr. WENDLING. I move the Convention do now adjourn. The motion was agreed to. So the Convention (at eleven o'clock and thirty-five minutes) adjourned. tion is adopted, with this additional sec. tion offe red b y the gent leman from Sngamon [Mr. Hay], the laws which provide or these enormous and unreasonale fees will fall to the ground of their own weight. There will be no lobby of three hundred interested county officers around the Legislatu re to work agai ns t the repeal of those laws. They will only be interested in having those fees sufficiently high to cover the salaries provided for in this section. These abuses can be easily remedied. I hope no gentleman on this floor has any timidity about meeting this fairly and squarely upon its merits. I am aware that every member who takes position in favor of the proposition of the gentleman from Sangamon [Mr. Hay], places himself fairly against all court house cliques wherever they exist. I know that if we submit this as a separate proposition we will find such cliques arrayed against it; but if there be any one thing among those we submit, which the people will adopt by an overwhelming majority, it will be this equitable, fair and just proposition. I can see no difficulty in providing that county clerks and all these county officials shall faithfully discharge their duties-that they shell collect the fees that they are required by law to collect. Nor can I see any difficulty, sir, in so framing a law that it shall be absolutely necessary forthem to collect those fees in order to live upon their offices. I have no doubt, sir, that the people of the State pay every year into the pockets of these people one million of dollars more than their services are actually worth-one million of dollars, sir, wrung from the toil of the people of this State —one million of dollars, sir, that belong to the honest, hard-working men of the State. Sir, it is one of the most dangerous things that we can permit to exist in our State, this system of allowing fat offices in some of the large counties, which control politics and bind legislators hand and Seot, which require pledges of them, when they become candidates for office, that they will stand by these officers, and that they will not interfere with their perquisites or emoluments. If we are not prepared, sir, to take a step in the way of reIbrm right here, in a matter that comes home to every tax payer in the State, we might as well, sir, adjourn sine die. If we think, sir, to shuffle this responsibility upon the Legislatulre, we are merely saying to the people that we have not the courage to do the work we were- sent here to de. It is a confession! on our part, of cowardice, and noth. ing else. It is an evil that no gentleman upon this floor pretends to deny the ex-[ istence of, and, sir, when the remedy isleat hand, ill plain and simzple terms, wte have only to place ourselves upon the record as willing to do our duty, or as lacking the courage-to discharge that duty. In regard to the objection mentioned by the gentleman from Sangamon [Mr. Hay], as to the fees of sheriffs, I would say that the difficulty can be provided for by a dozen words in the schedule, to the effect that these sheriffs shall continue to receive the fees now allowed by law until otherwise provided for. If, sir, it has come to that point that the people of a State cannot compel the,ix 88 Mr. VANDEVENTER. Mr. Chai r - man: I listened this morning to the ex pression of a good deal of honest indig nation at the abuses that have grown up under the present system of taxing fees in the State, in the various offices; and I have no doubt that most of it was well founded. It is certainly an act of supererogation at this day for any gentleman to state that corruption has run riot in a great many of the public offices in this State. I am also fully aware that the people expect and demand, and have long demanded, that some means be devised to put a quietus to this corruption. Acquiesing to the fullest extent in the fact that we will be recreant to the trust reposed in us, if we do not adopt some means to satisfy the demands upon us in this regard, I am not satisfied yet that this section is a panacea for all the evils existing in this respect. I cannot give this section my support, for variofs reasons, all of which I do not think it necessary to express fully at this time. I will state one. It is here proposed that the county boards shall fix the salaries of these officers; also, that any excess of the fees over their salaries received, shall be paid into the county treasury. What do gentlemen propose to do in case they fix the salary at a sum that the office fees will not pay? Suppose the salary is fixed at fifteen hundred dollars, and the fees amount to only twelve hundred dollars, from what source is the deficit of three hundred dollars to come? Undoubtedly, if from any source, it must come from the county treasury. Now, sir, in regard to the fees of the clerks more especially. I am radically opposed to depleting the county treasury for the purpose of paying clerk's fees. They have, heretofore, lived upon the fees. They have been too high in many of the larger cou-nties, and I propose that they shall, hereafter, not receive any nmore than their fees amount to; but under this section, if the county board should fix a salary too high-higher than the fees would amount to-then the salary would have to be paid out of the county treasury, and I am opposed to that. I amn in favor of the adoption of the sulstitute of the gentleman from Sangamon [Mr.- my]. trhis is a question of unusual delicacy and difficulty.. It is one upon which there exists a vast and great diversity of opinion and sentiment in this Conventionl; and whilst I do not flatter myself that we can hit upon the best means of fixing this matter, nevertheless, I do think that it would be an error, if we should adopt this section in its present form. I hope that the amlendment of the gentleman from Sangamon [lMr. Hay] will be duly weighed and considered, and that it may be adopted. If this difficulty about section seven, of which I have spoke~n, were remledied, so that there would be no danger, under any circumstances, of having'to pay these salaries out of the county treasury, outside of the fees, then, perhaps, it might secure my approbation. Mgr. HAYES. M~r. Chairman: Allow me to ask the gentleman if he has heard the amendment proposed by myself, thawt is now pending, to limit the compensation to the amount of the fees, in all cases where fees are provided for? a, AFTEReLYO ON' SESSION. TfESDAY, April 19, 1870. The Convention mnet at two o'clock P. tM., and was called to order by the President. COUNTIES. Mr. CRAIG. Mr. President: I move the Convention do now resolve itself into Committee of the Whole again, upon the report of the Committee on Counties. The PRESIDENT. It will be done unless objection is made. So the Conivention, as in Committee of the Whole (Mr. Cummings in the chair), resumed the consideration of the report of the Committee on Counties. The Clerk read section seven, as follows: SEC. 7. The county board shall fix the compensation of all county officers, but shall not allow either of them more per annum than fifteen hundred dollars, in counties not exceeding twenty thousand inhabitants two thlousand dollars in counties containing twenty and not exceeding thirty thousand inhabitants; twenty-five hundred dollars in counties containing thirty and not exceeding fifty thousand inhabitants; three thousand dollars in counties containing fifty and not exceeding seventy thousand inhabitants, thirty-five hundred dollars in counties containing seventy and not exceeding one hundred thousand inhabitants; and four thousand dollars in counties containing over one hundred thousand inhabitants-in addition to their necessary clerk hire, stationery and fuel. All fees or allowances by them received, in excess of their salary, shall be paid into the county treasury. [Amendment offered by Mr. Hayes]. Strike out the word "but" in the first line, and insert the following: "With the amount of their necessary clerk hire, stationery, fuel, and other expenses. And in all eases where fees are provided for, the same shall be paid only out of, and shall in no instance exceed the fees actually collected. They" APRIL 19, 1870. 1349 CO1N STITUTIONAL CONVENTION g tually in favor of it because it accom plishes all that the committee should seek if to accomplish. e Mr. WASHBURN. Mr. Chairman: I tt am very much incined to concur w it h n- s e veral mem bers who have spoken in fa vor of the subst i tute of the gentlem lan a from Sangabiion [Mr. Hay], but for one is reason: and that is that about five hunsr dred officers will gather around here f whe n the Legislatu re meet s which is to d fix the schedule of fees for all th e county p e n s~~~~~~- a t i nd o r p t e s e v c s r n e e d. B u t e o h a t t h r e i sn n o t i a o m a n h e r w h o u i s n o o officers, who will see that the schedule is 1- adopted to th eir own notionbse I would [. like to see some limitation. I know the we Convention has no such influence to overy c ome, but th at we are in a position to r- counteract the influence which they will d hav e upon Legislatures in the future. We r can counteract it in this way, viz: by fixl- ing some sum beyond which neither lobf byists nor any l egis lato r s can go. e I like this proposition, but still it does fail in this respect; and that being th e It principal thing which, in my judgment, f- would be f or the int eres t o f the tax-paying citizens of the State, it fails to meet amy [t approbation. i intend, if I can, to vote t for some proposition by whic h t his Conr- vention will fix a limit, beyond which e neither Legislatures nor lobbyists c an - t ax the people of the State, even in the tsha p e of exhorbitant fees. s Mr. McCOY. Mr. Cha irman: Ther e - was one proposition that I failed to Lt read: [I No increase of the fees of officers shall be ala lowed to take effect when such increase is , made. This article shall not be so construed as to deprive the General Assembly of the power to reduce the fees of existing incumo bent s of said offices. e Mr. FULLER. Mr. Chairman: Bel fore the vote is taken upon this question, I desire to say a word in reference to the v difference between the propositions now h before the committee. e W~hile I shall not join in the assault r upon county officers, by gentlemen who have denounced them as plunderers of the people, I believe that abuses have grown up under the present system of L- paying officers, and I believe, further, e that there is not a man here who is not fl willing to apply the remedy for these o abuses. s The only question that arises here is as - to what is the best course to he pursued e in order to prevrent the difficulty. Now, e I think we seek to accomplish three ob jects. One is to secure a uniformity of fYes throughout the State. I consider it [ important that there should be a uliformit ty of fees, if sulch a thling is possible, in nall the counties, both large and small — ,.that the same fees for recording and for rall other public duties shall be charged ill every county, whether it be large or smnall, 1so that a person living in one c-ounty, and having business to transact in another county, may know something of the cost vbefore he commences. s Another object is to reduce the present exhorbitant fees of some of the county oL ricers..'In the smaller counties, I think there is very little reason to complain; 'but in the larger counties the fees have grown excessive, and have become op3pressive upon the people. -Anlother object we ought to seek to se cure is to prevent a pressure being -brought to bear on the Legislature or any other public body that has the distritbutton of money, and the fixing of fees, in order that they may ame independently} cumulated for the purpose of puttint it into the treasuries of the counties. It is well known that all in excess o what is really necessary for the servic rendered, is an amount of money tha never should be collected from the peo ple. Take a county clerk whose services as matter of fact, according to the value of hi labor, are worth two thousand dollars pe annum, and by reason of the adjustment o the scale of prices, he receives five thousand dollars; it would be entirely unjust t take that surplus of three thousand dol lars and place it in the county treasury If an office is worth according to th present scale, by way of receipts, fort; thousand dollars, and the recorder's se vices are only worth twenty-five hundred dollars per annum, then it is unjust fo the Legislature or this Convention to ad vocate the policy of taking this excess o money from those who have the scrvic done. My is idea this: That when a sufficien iamount of money is paid to pay the ser vice the fees should go no further. So far as regards the propositions tha have been advanced here by the differen gentlemen of this committee, I am par ticularly in favor of the substitute or th amendment of the gentleman from San gamon [Mr.-Hay], and my reason is this It contemplates that the salaries or fee of those in office shall continue only un til the Legislature convenes-that at tha point their present scale of charges shal terminate, the people of the State have new deal, and a scale of fees or salarie be adopted which will be equitable.: will read the gentleman's substitute, sa as to bring it fairly before the'committee that we miay proper ly understa nd it in al its bearings. All laws f ix i ng the fees of State, counts and township offlcers, shall terminate wit] the terms of the incumbents in office at thr meeting of the first General Assembly afte the adoption of this Constitution, and th General Assembly shall, by general law, uni form in it s op eration, provide for and regu late the fees of the eo e s u cc essors to s ai d o ffic er s so as to reduce the same to a reasonnable com pensation for the services rendered. But the General Assembly may classify the c ounti es a nd regul ate th e fees of the officers thereof according t o business an d population. Nw increase of the fees of any of said officer, shall be allowed to take effect as to ally in cumbent when such increase is made. Thi' art icle sh all not be constr ued as depriving the General A ss embly of the p ower to reduce thr fees of existing incumbents of said offices. b towb sirt that is just wha t theis Conven ti on sh oul d adopt. It exactly c arries oum my idea, in substance and in effect, thai no mlore money should be drawn from the people or froma the unlbrtunate suit ors in court, or frism those persons fo~ whvml this service is done, than the service is actually worth; and that we should act in such a manner as to exclude everything that accumulates a fund in the county treasury. Let the law provide for these services, fix the amnount which is reasonable and just, and when that is done, provide for that, and nothing in excess. This part, which i will read, will shut off the evil: The General Assembly may classify the coun ties and regulate the fees'of the officers thereof, according to business and population, Now, sir, I could not have used lanlguage that Would express my views more fully thant they have been expressed in this substitute. I am decidedly and ac Mr. VANDEVENTER. I h ave not c onside red that. I do not remember of hearing it read. I am spea king, Mr. Chairman, more particularly in regard to the question as governed by section seven. When, some time ago, I moved that the debate be closed, it was not on account of any hostility to the proposed reform, but because I simply wished to find our latitude. I wished to get back to first principles, take a new start and ascertain the sense of the Convention upon some of these substitutes and amendments. I want this question fairly and fully and thoroughly discussed, and I am willing to support any means that will accomplish the object sought. There has been a great deal said in this debate about "barnacles," and "court house rings." Well, there may be "bar nacles" and "court-house rings," in vari ous parts of the State, but I know nothing of them. So far as there are cliques and "barnacles," for the purpose of unlawfully increasing these fees, they ought to be the subject of animadversion and censure from every source; but I do not think it is right and just to censure clerks who have only taken the fees allowed them by law. If there is anybody to blame, it must be the Legislature. The fees have been put too high in many counties-so high as to amount to a denial of justice, in some cases. In many courts where no trial is had, but where there is simply a default entered, the fees are enormous, and the people rightly and justly demand that such procedure shall be remedied; but these wholesale an athemas against clerks are wholly un called for. I will support this section if it can be so amended that it will meet my appro bation, which I hardly think will be the case. I hope this subject will be maturely considered. The reason that I asked for a vote a while ago, was that we might dispose of some of these substitutes, and, perhaps, find some one of them which could be reconciled with the opinions of the Committee of the Whole, and adopted; some measure that would accomplish the purpose that the people seem so anxious to have accomplished. Mr. McCOY. Mr. Chairman.: I believe that this comlmittee is decidedly in favor of settling down upon some proposition to regulate this evil oldish has existed in this State for a, long time. It is well known, sir, that the mode of raising funds for the purpose of paying officers, has grown to a system of banking, and that it has grown to such an extent that five timles as much as the service is worth has been paid for it. Now, Mr. Chairman, I am opposed to the whole system in every shape or form, and I am opposed to it, for the reason that it is not equality in the mode of tax:ation. We have adopted this principle in this Conlvention, that taxation shall be uniform, and according to valuations upon property. I take it that when a man goes into office, his labor becomes the property of the county *and the value of that kind of property should be adiusted upon the system of equality, just the same as any other property should be judged of. I am opposed to any action being taken by this committee, that goes to form the idea that mon~y shall be ac TUF,SDAY, 1350 DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. make the same exertion to have the fees increased as they would if they were certain to continue in office, so that I think the substitute of the gentleman from Sangamon [Mr. iHay] will not re mm ove the question of fbes from before the Legislature. I think the same pressure will be brought to bear every two years instead of there being a degree of per manency that is attained by the present sytem. The substitute as presented by myself, although I have no particular preference, seems to me to remove some of the objec tions to the other two propositions. In the first place, the Legislature will pre scribe a uniform rate of fees throughout the State. In the small counties, while those fees will not be excessive, in any they will be at least sufficient, perhaps, for the support of the officer, without any surplus. It is provided in this prop osition that all above a certain sum shall be divided, and a portion, not less than one-half, shall be paid into the treasury, that the other haltf may go to the officer. Thus, if the fees amount to three thousand dollars, so much of that as may be determined sufficient may be set as the limit, above which the excess is to be divided in the proportion which the Legislature may determine-half, say, going to the officer and half to the treasury. In that way a fair compensation can be secured to the officer, and the balance may be saved to the counties. The CHAIRMAN. The question is upon the amendment offered by the gentlehman from Cook [Mr. Hayes]. Mr. PEIRCE. MVr. Chairman: I did not design to argue this question; but I am forciby impressed that it is exceedingly important to fix in the article we shall adopt relating to the fees of county officers, a provision requiring uniformity of fees throughout the different counties of the State; for at present, owing to the number of special acts of the Legislature upon the subject of fees, there is a great want of uniformity, so that it is impossible to know what amount of money is required as fees or compensation for the different county officers in the several counties of the State. This matter is a great annoyance and a subject of much dissatisfaction among those who have business to transact in other counties than those in which they reside. I think it is important that it be corrected in some manner. Mr. UNDERWOOD Mr. Chairman: Will the gentleman allow me to call hi s attention to the fo~rty-eighth section of the judiciary article? As p laws providing compensation, by feeso to ministerial or other officers, provided for in this article, shall, as to each class of said officers, be general and uniform throughout der i, whneve thetermsof oficeof athe State. fa t hyaeo h oet ad Mr. PEIRCE. Mr. Chairman: That provision had escaped my attention. If that be regarded as the decision of the Convention, of course it will be satisfactory in that regard. With reference to the differences between the report of the Committee on Counties, and the substitute offered by the gentleman from Sangamon [Mr. Hay], I am satisfied that both have many admirable provisions that commend them to our attention. I am not disposed to join in the disposition to regard the county officers with distrust and suspicion; to condemn them ence. Now, then, there ar e t hree measures presented before the Convention to day. One is the plan adopted by the Commit tee on Counties, under consider ation. An other is the substitute presented by the gentleman from Sangamon [Mr. Hav]; and another the substitute presented by mvself this morning; and I wish to com pare the three, and see which will be most likely to accomplish the purpose we all intend to accomplish. I am wedded to no system in this matter. I care no more for the plan I presented than I do for either'of the others. If either of them shall be shown to be better, more condu cive to the public interest than the plan I presented, I am willing to adopt it. So far as allowing the board of county commissioners or supervisors to fix the fees of officers is concerned, it ap pears to me that that will not remedy the evil of the outside pressure. I believe corrupting influences can be brought to bear on a board of supervisors or county commissioners by the county officers, much easier than it can on the Legisla ture. I believe a board of supervisors, when the officers may be their personal or political friends, may under this clause, in regard to clerk hire, stationery and fuel, allow their friends any increase of salary thei may think for their interest or the interest of such officers. On the contrary, if the officers happen to be of a different political party, or the personal enemies of the board of supervisors, that they may want to rid themLselves of them, they may cut off their salary, and cut off their compensation in such a manner as to comnpel them to resign their offices; and I do not think that removing the pressure from the Legislature to the board of supervisors will remedy that evil at all. I believe there are many mote influences than can be brought to bear on the board of supervisors, by the different officers of the county, at less expense and much easier, than thev can be brought to bear on the Legislature. The section reported has been pretty carefully examined by others, and I wish to examine the substitute of the gentleman from Sangamon [Mr. Hay]. In some respects it is, perhaps, a very good substitute for this section, but I think there are objections to that too. If I understand it correctly, it does not propose to interfere with the fees of the present offiersr during their term; consequently the present enormous fees will run on for about the term of four years, in the case clf some of the officers. There is a clause in the substitute providing that it shall not prevent the Legislature from changing the fees during that time. I understand that, under it, whenever the termns of office of a county treasurer or county judge, clerk, surveyor or coroner expire, the law proriding fear their fees expires with them. And, consequently, at every session of the Legislature, the whole subject of fees is brought up again. A new law must be -enacted at every session of the General Assembly, covering all the fees of these 4~fficers.. This is a difficult question, and iust as difficult under the substitute of the gentlemanl from Sangameon [Mr. H~ay] as it is now. Although the officersr go out of office,e many of them expect to and will be elected again, and they will as being corrupt, dishonest and censura ble; as connected with corrupt rings, and as only worthy of the opprobrious epithet of "barnacle s." I bel ieve it will gener ally be found (at least in the counties in the section of the State in which I reside, I believe it to be true,) that these County officers are almost uniformly disabled sol diers, who have, it may be, left a leg or arm on the battle fields of the south. These men are not to be called "barna cles" and criminated by this Convention, in my hearing, without my earnest pro test. Their patriotism and sacrifices in the defense of their country in the hour of its peril, should commend them to our, respect and admiration. It is true, some of them have asked an increase of their compensation. Perhaps it was necessary at that time that such an increase should be made. In some of the smaller counties the fees were scarcely sufficient to enable officers to live upon them, and when they asked the increase, the difference in value between the cur rency in which they were paid and gold, the real medium of exchange, was so great that an increase of fifty per cent. was not more than cnough to equalize the pay actually received then, and the pay deemed fair and equitable when the fees were originally established. But that state of things is passing away. Instead of having our currency at fifty pei cent. discount, it is now al most at par, and we are rapidly verging upon the time when it will be as good as gold. Perhaps by the time of the meet ing of the next Legislature, they will be of equal value. Then, I think it important that the principle::embraced in the first clause of the substitute of the gentleman from Sangamon [Mr. Hay] be engrafted in this article, so that all laws and parts of laws regulating the fees of county officers now in force shall cease to be operative with-. in a given and specified time. The period is rapidly approaching when this artificial condition of our finan cial affairs, which has caused all this increase of fees, will cease to exist. It is necessary that these counties return to the original cash basis for the payment of their officers. I think it is proper to wipe out all the laws increasing the fees of county officers at a given and specified time. Then the Legislature or the properly constituted authority —perhaps the supervisors can fixs the fees on a cash basis. I do not distrust the supervisors in doing equity in this regard. They are of such a class as is mnore competent than ourselves to do justice in this matter. Some gentlemen think that a ring will be formed around the court-house, and supervisors be bought up. I do not fear it. They are of the honest, hardworking men of the land, are directly responsible to the people, are elected once a year. To distrust men so often elected, so emphatically of the people, is to distrust the people themselves. I have no lack of confidence in the supervisors to deal both justice and equity with the county officers and the county treasury. I hope the article recommended by the committee will be adopted, and also, that the first clause of the substitute of the. gentleman from Sangamon [Mr. Hay] will be attached to it. Mr. GOODHUE. Mr. Chairman: The real question, as I understanc~ rtl Ente~r APRIL 19) 1870. 135,1 and for the interes's of the people, and' not under the control of outside iuflu 135 ~- ~TTTOA OY~INTEDY these officers to collect these costs, be cause they alone are interested in collect ing them. Now, it seems to me that the argument is not fair, and it seems to me that it is not based on sound reason. How do they collect their fees at the pres ent time? They collect fees by issuing executions and fee bills. How are they to be collected hereafter? They are to be collected in precisely the same manner. We are told that after the money goes into their hands, there will be strong temptation for them to retain more than their salary. Admit it. There is always a temptation of this kind, to men into whose hands public moneys come; but, will there be any stronger temptation presented to these officers in the future, under the principle which is recognized in the report of this committee, than is presented under the present system? S The law fixes and prescribes the fees which a sheriff shall receive The sheriff, when an execution or a fee bill goes into his hands, immediately attempts its col lection, in the mode pointed out by the statute. When he collects it, it is not all his-part of it belongs to the clerk, part to litigants, part to witnesses, and part of it, in ceitain instances, belongs to others. But we have now traced the money into the hands of the sheriff, under circum t stances which will raise as strong a temnp tation in his heart to retain the money which comes into his hands as can be raised in the breast of an officer, under the principle in the section we are insist ing upon adopting into the present Con stitution. So it seems to me that every single argument that is urged against the principle of this report, upon the ground that a temptation will be presented to these various officers, for retaining a por tion of the money which comes into their hands, will apply, with equal force, un-a der any provision which can be engrafted upon our Constitution. I do not know that this Constitutional Convention can frame a Constitution so as to remove temptation from public offi ces All we can do is to leave the respon sibility somewhere; to give the people to understand that the responsibility is with their officers; to give the people to under stand that, in electing their officers, they must discriminate in favor of honest men and against scoundrels. When the re sponsibility is left with the people, they will sometimes be deceived, it is true, but very seldom have the people of this State had any reason to complain anywhere of their public officers.In [Here the hammer fell.] Mr. HAY. Mr. Chairman: I am d esirous that the committee shall thoroughly understand what I propose to accomplish by the substitute I have offered. I am first desirous of putting this matter in a condition that will enable the Legislature, at a period whenever they shall be free from all extraneous influences, to fix the matter of fees upon a proper basis in regard to amount. To provide a reasonable and economical fee-bill is the first thing I desire to accomplish by this substitute, and so to provide as to necessitate that upon the Legislature (and I know of no other way in which that could be provided) and to so provide as to terminate all laws upon the subject of fees at some certain time, best adapted to enable the Legisle.ture to act upon it to the best advantage. In order to accomplish the other object of CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION TUESDAY, 1352 forcing the Legislature to action upon it under circumstances when they could act disinterestedly upon it, I fix the period of the termination of the present laws upon the subject with tlae termination of the terms of the present incumbents. That, then, enables the Legislature, before those ter,-as expire, to legislate with regard to the fees of the successors of those officers-to legislate free from the iDflUCnCe which will inevitably be brought to bear upon the Legislature, when they undertake to legislate so as to affect the fees of existing incumbents. We do not desire to undertake and I do not undertake, by this substitute, to deprive the Legislature of the power of legislating with regard to the fees of the present incumbents. Bat I desire to so provide that the Legislature shall, at some period, be placed in such a condition that they can legislate freely and independently, and without the presence of disturbing influences that may be brought to bear upon them, to establish the fees as they should be permanently established. Now, I know of no other way of accomplist-iiiig this, than by the terms of the substitute that I have offered. I think that this other proposition omits that feature that is preserved in the substitute that I have offered. Now, one thing further with respect to the essential differeince between the propositio.n,3. Aly own convictions are that the better and safer rule in regard to these fees is to provide in the first place for securing such legislation in regard to them as will place them upon the most reasonable and econom' ical basis, so as to afford reasonable con-ipeinsation to the, officers, and then let the officers collect and take the fees-not put the burden upon the county of looking after these fees, and putting in force a species of machii'lery which will demoralize the officers. Because, if we adopt the principle of regarding them as pr,-)perty beIODgiDg to the county, we inauatirate a system which will go far towards, demoralizidg those officers. These fees will go into their hands in the first Place. How are we to know the amount of them We may ascertain to a certain extent. Mr. HAINES, of Lake. illr. Chairman: Are not the records so arranged that the fees ma be traced to eve ffi 'consideration, is whether wG shall adopt the principle of the report of this committee, or whether we shall. continue to pursue the methods now in vogue in this State, for the payment of couty officers. It is a question as to whether salaries shall be paid to our county offlcers, or whether the Legislature shall be left free to fix costs, perquisites, and fees, hereafter as heretofore. For my part, I am in favor of fixed salaries. The'theory of our government is, that all officers are elected and paid for the transaction of public business, and for the performance of public duty; but the practice politically is, that government is run for the purpose' of conferring beiaefits upon individual officers; and this, it seems to me, must be clearly re.-Icognized from the h;-story of this State, and from the history, perhaps, of other States. Now, then, there is but one voice in this Convention, in relation to the evil -which now exists. There is but one opinion in relation to this proposition-that there is an unjust, and an oppressive distinction made in paying our county officers, and paying our judges. It has been recognized in this debate, it has been recognized repeatedly in this Convention, as unjust, oppressive, and in violation of every principle of fairness and equity, that judges should be so i-uiserably paid as they have been, and that county officers should be so extravagantly paid as they have been under our present system. Now, how are our iudges paid? They have, up to this time,. been paid salaries. How are they to be paid under the article which has already been partially adopted, or which has been reported from the Committee of the Whole? They are to be paid as they have been hc-retofore-they are to be paid in salaries. Now, is there any reason why county officers should not be paid in the same way-in salaries, instead of costs? We are met by the objeCtiOD, in regard to paying these covantv officers salaries, that they will have ni personal interest in collecting anything raore than is com. ing to them. The argument is based upon the idea that county officers who are elected throughout the State, are dislion,est. It is upon the theory that they can be trusted only so far as they are person APIL 9 8O JBTSADPOED~S1 Legislature in a condition that it can fix gamon [Mr. Hay] before the committee or not. It is useless for us to educate~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ gamon [rbr. Hay] before the committee now? The CHAIRMAN. The Chair under stands that the proposition of the gentle. man from Sangamon [Mr. Hay] has only been read for information. r Mr. HAINES, of Lake. Mr. Chair man: The gentleman from Sangamon [Mr. Hay] has been talking to it, and I proposed to reply, but I will hear the amendments that are pending. The Clerk read the amendment offered by Mr. Hayes, as follows: Strike out the word "but," in the first line, and insert the following: "with the amount of their necessary clerk hire, stationery, fuel and other expenses; and in all cases where fees are provided for, the same shall be paid only out of, and shall in no instance exceed the fees actually collected. They" Mr. HAINES, of Lake. Mr. Chairman: What I was going to remark is this: I was one of the committee that reported the provision now under consideration, and I have not changed my mind upon it. The people of this State call upon this Convention for something of the kind, and we shall not perform our duty unless we adopt something of the description proposed. Whether this section is right in detail, I cannot say, but we are called upon to adopt the principle. We are further called upon to adopt the principle in the amendment of the gen tie,fan from Sangamon [Mr. Hay], to terminate at some time the system of fees-exorbitant fees, that has crept in. And the object of my rising was to say that I think this section ought to. be adopted. I would be in favor of adding the prop osition that these exorbitant fees shall cease. I understand that this is the bur den of! the argument of the gentleman from!angamon [Mr. Hay]-that these fees are too high. I think we ought to adopt this section, and add a provision, giving some discre tion to the Legislature. I think it ought not to be tied up in such a manner as it is, but that this ought to be adopted for the time being. In regard to the suggestion, that it opens the door for corruption, that argument might be made against the whole system of government. As civilization goes on, the more we see to correct, and the more we progress. the more obstacles we find to remove. The further a man advances in light and knowledge, the more darkness he sees. Now, this is not, to use a common say ing, to frighten us from doing our duty. When we have done all we are called upon to do, we will be discharged by the people. As it is now, these officers get all the fees. What is the proposition of the gentleiman from Sangamon [Mr. Hay]? To give the whole to them. Ours is that they shall have only a part. He complains that they will not give the remainder to the treasury. Who will be the worse for it? The people will not, if these officers keep half, for they now get all. Then we have discharged our duty. We have laid it down as a rule, that above a certain amount these officers shall pay into the treasury. Hte says it is impossible for us to make the rule work, for there is no way oftesting the honesty of the officers. There are many ways. One is to elect honest men to office. So form checks and balances, as to determine whether they have done their duty Legislature in a condition that it can fix a reasonable awd economic'al fee-bill, and let the officers collect their fees, and look after them themselves; and that is the principle of the substitute I have offered here. Mr, ANTHONY. I would like to have the gentleman answer wherein that sys tem differs from the present one? Mr. HAY. In this, that it puts an end to all the high laws, and all the high fee bills now in existence; puts the Legis lature in a condition disinterestedly to fix a new bill with reference to the actual necessities, and provide a reasonable compeinsation for the officers. I am will irlg to trust the Legislature that far, if they can act on this subject at a time, and under circumstances where they can act upon it free from disturbing influ ences. Mr. ANTHONY. Mr. Chairman: If we strip the proposition of the gentleman from Sai:garnrioll [Mir. Hay] of its verbi age, it amounts to exactly this: let the fees be collected and paid into the pock ets of the office-holder, just as they now are. In the first place, the Legislature regulates the fees, and when the fees have been collected, they go into the pockets"! of the office-holder, just as they do now, under the present Constitution. That is his proposition; no more, no less. With all due respect to the gentleman, it does not differ a particle from the present sys tem in force in this State, and he only proposes to make that system organic and unchangeable. I say, in the first place, that the fees do no not belong to the office holder. They belong to the public. Fees are only in cident to a public office. This matter of reducing the fees of all the officers to the least possible amount, I am in favor of; but I insist that when I make my contri bution to a public officer, that officer shall make an account, so that everybody in the commun ty may know how much he does actually receive and make out of the public. We should not make these public offices eleemosynary institutions in our country, but we should pay a public officer simply for his public services; no more, no less. The proposition of the gentleman here, I repeat, is nothing but a continuance ot the' present system. He proposes that the next Legislature shall reduce the fees. Who opposes that? I do newt. But I insist that when I have paid my mnoney to a public officer, that public officere shall make 3 return, -The gentleman says he knows instances where iee-bills have been paid, and not accounted ibr by the officer. No gentlemen knows better thanl the learned gentleman from Sangamon [MVr. BAy], but what if that condition of things was found out, he could frame a law lby which that public officer coulld be brough~t to the bar of justice anrd punished; arid he should be punished Wee can make a lawe lay which if an offier does not account fbr money received, he can be sent to jail or State prison. There is no diffi Gusty about that. But his proposition does not remedy the evils of which we complain, and which are acknowledged on all hands. Mr. HAINES, of Lake. Mr. C:hairman: As tos the amendment of the gentleman from Sangamon [M~r. Hay] Mr. HIAYES. MIr. Chairman: Is the p)rop~osition of the gentleman from tSa~ 8a5 DEBATES AND PROCEEDIINGS. 1353 APP.IL 19, 1870. or not. It is useless for us to educate ourselves in human laws, unless we profit by them; usless to atteidpt to legislate, and then acknowledge here that we are incapable to provid.e a law to carry out the will of the people. I think there is a way to compel these officers, at stated times, to show all the money that has been collected. We can provide for a record of what is done, showi.ug all fees that have accrued, and whether they have been paid. I hope this section will prevail, but with a portion of the proposition of the gentlemati from Sangamon [Mr. Hay] also engrafted in it, giving some power to the Legislature, that this principle may be carried out as the people de. mand. Mr. ALLEN of Crawford. Mr. Chair. man: I am not at all familiar with the various propositions that have been before the committee on this subject, but I understand from the tenor of the debate that this committee now have the various county officers of the State on trial for extortioii-at least, I so infer from the remarks of the gentlemen who have spoken on the subject. I desire to enter my protest against the application of those remarks to any county officers in the senatorial district in which I live, for all' the county officers there are acting under the schedule of fees fixed by the Legislature in 1847, which are regarded as extremely low by every body. It. is true, that a few years ago, when greenbacks were not so near par as at present, the Legislature, out of abundant od feeling towards the county officers oOthose counties, increased their fees to correspond with the fees paid clerks, sher. iffs, etc, in other counties of the State. But as greenbacks began to approximate gold in value, as during the si —,ting of the last Legislature, the members representi-Dg the various counties of that senatorial district, and the senator, in that spirit of economy which so much distinguished him, voted to reduce the fees there to the standard of 1847. 1 do not propose to discuss either of the propositions pending, but to state that the county officers in the senatorial district in which I live, are not properly on trial here. It is only officers of the counties who are receivin about twice as 1354 COST1TUTIOAL CONYETJON TUESDAY, sider how high a rate of fees will furnish the requisite compensation for county officers; and if that is done, the people will attain the largest possible benefit. I have a great dcal more faith in saving taxes to the people, than in squeezing them out of them in the shape of high fees, in the expectation that they will be benefited thereby after the money has passed into the treasury, and is expos ed to the depredations of the office-holders. Let me read in regard to one of the offices of my own county. The gentleman from Sangamon [Mr. Hlay] has referred to the multiplicity of fee bills in this State. I am told there are about fortyfive different fee bills in the State of Illinois-a most disgraceful condition of things. Here is the recorder's fee bill for the county of Cook: For recording printed forms of deeds and conveyances, ten cents per hundred words for each certificate, twenty-five cents; for copying, twenty cents per hundred words. One year under W. L. Church, to December 7th, 1868, 34,427 instruments, at a cost of $46,636-$t 24 per instrument. One year under Mr. Gassette, December 7th, 1868, to December 7th, 1869, 42,927 instruments, at a cost of $50,465 85-$1 18 per instrument. Deducting contracts, the cost of recording printed deeds and mortgages averages about $1 50 to $1 60. That is too much. These printed deeds cost on an average $1 25 to the people, and to the recorder perhaps less than a shilling apiece, as he has only to fill up printed forms in books provided by the county at its cost. [Here the hammer fell.] Mr. MOORE. Mr. Chairman: Before the vote is taken upon this section I wish to state one fact. This section is no new thing, as I understand it. The commit tee adopted it from the State of Massa,chusetts. In Boston, as I am informed, the clerks of the common law courts get only $3,000 a year, and have to pay the surplus into the county treasury, if there is any. In some of the other counties they are reduced as low as $1,500. It was from that practice that the section was adopted by the committee. The CHAIRMAN. The question is upon the amendment of the gentleman from Cook [Mr. Haves]. The Clerk read the amendment offered by Mr. Hayes, as follows: Strike out the word "but" in the first line, t and insert the following: "With the amount of their necessary clerk hire, stationery, fuel, and other expenses; and in all cases where fees are provided for, the same shall be paid only out of, and shall in no instance exceed the fees actually collected. They."' Mr. ENGLISH. Mr. Chairman: I * would like to call attention to the twenf ty-sixth rule of the Convention, which is as follows: A motion to strike out the proposition shall t have precedence of a motion to amend, and, is if carried, shall be deemed equivalent to its , rejection. h fThe CHAIRMAN. The Chair willi state that the rule has been; in the Comn mittee of the Whole, that the friends of a measure perfect the section, and then the ; question recurs upon the motion to strike out. L Mr. HAYES. Mr. Chairman: The b rules governing the Convention have no . appl cation to proceedings in Committee of the Whole. The Clerk read section seven as it would be with the amendment offered by Mr. Hayes, as follows: SEC. 7. The county board shall fix the compensation of all county officers, with the amount of their necessary clerk hire, stationery, fuel and other expenses; and in all cases where fees are provided for, the same shall be paid only out of, and shall in no instance exceed the fees actually collected. They shall not allow either of them more per annum than fifteen hundred dollars, in counties not exceeding twenty thousand inhabitants; two thousand dollars in counties containing twenty and not exceeding thirty thousand inhabitants; twenty-five hundred dollars in counties containing thirty and not exceeding fifty thousand inhabitants; three thousand dollars in counties containing fifty and not exceeding seventy thousand inhabitants; thirty-five hundred dollars in counties containing seventy and not exceeding one hundred thousand inhabitants, and four thousand dollars in counties containing over one hundred thousand inhabitants-in addition to their necessary clerk hire, stationery and fuel. All fees or allowances by them received, in excess of their salary, shall be paid into the county treasury. ["Division!"] The CHAIRMAN. There is a division called for on the amendment of the gentleman from Cook [Mr. Hayes]. The comnittee divided, when the amendment was agreed to. Mr. WASHBURN. I would ask, ls a substitute now in order? The CHAIRMAN. There is no amendment now to the pending section. Mr. WASHBURN. Then I offer a substitute. Mr. UNDERWOOD. I have an amendment. Mr. WASHBURN. When the gentleman hears the substitute, I know he will not want it amended. I wish to speak in comparison of some points in the substitute and the section. The Clerk read the substitute offered by Mr. Washburn, as follows: The board of supervisors or county commissioners of each county shall fix a maxi mum of compensation of each county offieer (except county judge, countv supervisors and county commissioners, whose compensation shall be fixed by the General Assembly), which shall be paid in fees only, and which shall not exceed $2,000 in counties having less than 20,000 inhabitants, $2,500 in counties having less than 40,000 inhabitants, $3,000 in counties having less than 75,000 inhabitants, and $3,500 in counties having more than 75,000 inhabi tants. And all fees received by them above the maximum fixed shall be paid by them into the county treasury, and they shall receive no other compensation, pay or perquisite whatever. Mr. WASHBURN. I wish to say, in regard to one point in the section, as amended, that fifteen hundred dolilars is perhaps too small a compensation for the business in some counties, at least those in which the population is less than twenty thousand inhabitants. For instance, the business of the court, at Cairo, Alexander county, is such, that fifteen hundred dollars is, perhaps, no reasonable pay for the business necessary to be transacted there, and yet Alexander has a population of less than fourteen thousand, and there mlay be several other counties in a like position. In order to) remedy that inconvenience, in the substitute I have fixedd the,owest maximum at two thousand dollars, which will give some range to the discretion of the county supervisors, or commissioners, to do justice to each particular case, and yet oblige them to fix such rates as cannot and will not tax the people with exorbitant fees. Anld, in the second place, the section confides too much to the~'county commis s t 0 t t 1 1.r f r s s t e e s .s s s CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION TUESDAYI 1354 is the w-'-ser course to secure both these propositions than to throw out either of them. - I think the first thing before us to do, is to go on with section seven, to perfect and amend it and carry out the spirit and intention of the committee; and then, having fixed the maximum salaries of county offacers in the various grades of counties, proceed to regulate the question of fees as proposed by the gentleman from Sangamon [Nlr. Hay]. As between the two propositions, if I were forced to choose, I should prefer that offered by the gentleman from Sangamon [Mr. Hay]; though in doing so I should, perhaps, be voting against the instructions that I have received from my own constituents, so far as they have made public declarations of their views on these questions. But I have felt as other gentlemen have expressed themselves on this floor, that if we douothing more than is proposed in section seven, if we fix salaries only, and fail to provide for a reduction of fees, those salaries, with the deputy, and clerk hire, stationery, and fuel, etc., will conslme to the last penny, all the fees that will ever be received in the laroest offace in the largest county of the State. Now, that is my candid opinion. I do not even except the recorder's office of Cook county, which is worth $50,000 g-ross income per year. Even that oflice will never pay into the county of Cook one dime, after the first spasm of economy is over, unless something more is done to secure a portion of the money to tax-payers, than the mere proposition to put the recorder on a salary; for he, and his friends, and their friend —,, and others, wh,-, confederate with him, and their friends, and the ring within a ridg, and the extended rings, making a chain, will never cease exercising their powers of suction wile there is a dollar of these fees uncoinsumed; and the same is true of the circuit, superior or county clerk's office, or of the sberiff's office. The art of extracting Money Out Of the pockets of tax-payers is brought to a much higher perfection by the profession al office-holder and his confederates than the art of protecting the people has ever been brou-abt by their legislators. We have in all States, Illinois uot excepted, a ver numerous unscru ulous shar -wit APRIL 19, 1870. DEBATES ANt) I'ROCEEDINGS. 1355 and I propose that for every additional 100,000 population above a quarter of a million, the board of supervisors of Cook county may add $1,000 to the compensi tion of their county officers. Mr. TINCHER Mr. Chairman: I move to insert 50,000 in place of 100,000. It is true, in a place like Chicago there is so much more business in their courts, as has been stated, that it requires a vast deal more'services of clerks Mr. MERRIAMI (in his seat). That is paid for. Mr. TINCHER. The man who takes care of these books ought to have more pay, and for fifty thousand population an additional one thousand dollars is not tro much. I think it is right. I do not ex pect to ever be clerk of Cook county, but I am well satisfied that county clerks in other parts of the State will receive a much ILrger salary in prop)rtion to the amount of work done, than the clerks of Cook county under this provision. I move to insert fifty thousand in place of one hundred thousand. Mr. HAINES, of Cook. Mr. Chairman: It was stated by the gentleman from De Witt [Mr. Moore] that the clerks of the courts in the city of Boston receive only three thousand dollars a year. If they can live on that sum in Boston, they can in any other city in the United States, for Boston is one of the dearest cities in the .The great difficulty surrounding this question is, that we have too many high minded men in the Convention. Their ideas are too much enlarged as to the value of the services of these ministerial officers. The people feel that we should restrict places, and officers and salaries not givin ~ officers such pay as is greater than is paid in our mercantile houses for men who have more responsibility, whose duties require more pains and mo)re time We have in our city thousands of young men of talent, trained up to such busi t ness, who would gladly take these places at two thousand dollars a year. Yet, by the amendment of my colleague [Mr. Me dill] he proposes to add largely to the sum already named. By the amendment of the gentleman from Vermilion [Mr. Tincher], it is pro posed to make it still larger. For one, I shall vote in this committee and in the Convention, for the lowest sum all the time. IMr. WRIGHT. Mr. Chairman: I would inquire what is the question pend ingS The CHAIRMAN. it is on the amends ment of the gentleman from Vermilion [Mr. Tincher] to the amendment of the gentleman from Cook [Mr. Medill. The Clerk read the amendment offered by Mr. Tincher, as follows: Amend the amendment offered by the gentletman from Cook [Mr. Medill] by inserting "50,000 inhabitants" in place of "'100,000." The Clerk read the amendment offered by Mr. Medill, as follows: Insert after the word "thousand in th e ninth line, the following: "and not exceeding two hundred and fifty thousand inhabitants, and not more than one thousand dollars additional salary for each additional one hundred thousand inhabitants." Mr. WRIGHT. Mr. Chairman: I cana only speak, in regard to county officers, from my limited experience. It is not my experience that the business of a county officer depends on population. t There are many counties in the State, Mr. sioners- much more than th e o ther prop osition. This only givs 5000 the privilege of fixing the maximum. The s ectio n gives quite a jurisdiction to the commissioners or supervisors, which may be much abused and which I do not think is at all neces sary. M[r. HAYES. Mr. Chairman: May I ask the gentleman a question? If the county court fixes a maximum, who is to fix the precise amount? :Mr. WASHBURN. Mr. Chairman: As a matter of course, the officers get the maximum, if the fees make it, but if not, they will have to put up with the fees they get. If the fees are enough to amount to the maximum, the officer will get it; but if not, he will only get what fees he receives. The CHAIRMAN. The first question is upon the motion of the gentleman from Greene [Mr. English] to strike out — Mr. WASHBURN. Mr. Chairman: I wish to offer a substitute. The CHAIRMAN. It is out of order at present. If there are any further amendments they will be offered now. Mr. MOORE. Mr. Chairman: I move to strike out the words after "inhabitants" in the ninth line, down to the word "all" in the tenth line. Strike out the words "in addition to their clerk hire," etc. I make that motion. The CHAIRMAN. The question is upon the amendment. Mr. MEDILL. Mr. Chairman: I desire to offer an amendment to go in the ninth line after the word "thousand," so that it will read as follows: And four thousand dollars in counties containing over one hundred thousand inhabitants, and not exceeding two hundred and fifty thousand, and not more than one thousand dollars additional salary for each additional one hundred thousand inhabitants. The CHAIRMAN. The amendment to the amendment is not germane. The amendm-nent is to strike out certain words as proposed by the gentleman from DeWitt [:'Ir. Moore]. The question is upon the amendment of the gentleman from DeWitt [Mr. Moore]. The amendment was agreed to. Mr. MEDILL. Mr. Chairman: I now renew my amendment. The Clerk read the amendment offered by Mr. Medill, as follows: Insert after the word "thousand'} in the ninth hila the following: "And not exceeding two hundred and fifty thousand inhabitants, and not more than one thousand dollars additional salary for each additional one hundred thousand inhabitants." Mr. MEDILL. Mr. Chairman: I offer this amendment for the reason that $4,000 is not enough compensation for some offiers of our immense county, even nlow, and will be wholly inadequate when the population numbers 500,000, 800,000 or 1,000,000 —as it will twenty years hence. The maximum restricting officers to $4,000, will place them, in Cook county, in the tU-u ture, ii~the same strait that the judiciary is under in the present Constitution. The boards of supervisors will be driven to resort to unlawful expedients to circumvent this Constitution, as is being done at present, because of the inadequate pay of judges and members of the Legislature Therefore, I want a little flexibility in the compensation of Cook county officers~, Chairman, containing about equal popu lation, where the actual business to be t ransacte d b y the c ounty officers, will vary at least one hundred per cent. Now, I ask, gentlemen, whether it is fair to pay a man, for doing twice the amount of business, the same salary paid a man to do one-half that business? It does not depend upon population according to my experience. I think the right principle is, to pay a man according to the labor he performs, not according to the number of people in his county. There is where I thlinak the error is in this proposition. That is what I think fees ought to be the standard by which officers should be paid. We can not determine the proper amount of pay that any officer should have by the popu lationi, but we should determine how much he should have by the labor he performs. I understand that under this proposition now, it is not proposed to provide any clerk hire, for any extra la. bor; but to pay him according to the ad ditional thirty thousand, forty thousand or fifty thousand inhabitants. For that reason, I think it would be a palpable error to every man of experi ence, and I object to that proposition. Mr. CAMERON. Mr. Chairman: Be fore the imotion is put, I desire to express the hope that the amendment offered by the gentleman from Vermilion [Mr. Tin cher] will be voted down, for Mr. TINCHER. Mr. Chairman: Will the gentleman allow me a word? If the gentlemen who represent Cook county want to starve their officers, I an] perfect ly willing that they should do it, and so i withdraw my amendment. The CHAIRMAN. The question is upon the amendment of the gentleman from Cook [Mr. Medill]. The Clerk will read. The Clerk read the amendment offered by Mr. Medill, as follows: Insert after the word "thousand," in the ninth line, the following:'And not exceed ing two hundred and fifty thousand inhabit ants, and not more than one thousand dollars additional salary for each additional one hundred thousand inhabitants." A division was ordered. The committee divided, when, there being twenty-two in the affirmative and nineteen in the negative, the amendment was agreed to. Mr. WASHBURN. Mr. Chairmnan: I now offer my substitute to the section. Mr. UNDERWOOD. I have an amendment that I wish to offer, Mr. Chairman. The CHAIRMAN. As the friends of the section are perfecting it, amendments will-be in order. When all have been acted upon, the first question will be on the motion of the gentleman from Greene [Mr. English], to strike out. Thlen the substitute of the gentleman from W~illiamson [Mr. Washburn] will be in order. Mr. UJND:ERWOOD. Mr. Chairman: I wish simply to say, that if we allow no comoensation for collecting the surplus above the salary of the officerr, in all human probab~ility he never will collect any ~more than his salary, or if he collects more, will forget to pay it over. In order to present some inducemnent for him to collect more than his salary, I offer this amendment: Strike out the word "all," ill the tenlth line, and insert "three-fourths of all." A division was ordered. The comlmittee divided, when, there ho- ing nineteen in the affirmative and twenty I t 1355 DEBATES ANIJ PROCEEDINGS. APRIL 19) 1870. 1356 CONSTITUTIONAL CONYENTION TUESDAY, hundred dollars in counties having more than seventy-five thousand inhabitants; and all fees received by them, above the maximum fixed, shall be paid by them into the county treasury, and they shall receive no other compensation, pay or perquisite whatever. Mr. SPRINGER. Mr. Chairman: I would like to make an inquiry before the vote is taken. We have now, and will have under this Constitution, if it is adopted, a provision whereby two offices will be united in one. The sheriff is ex-officio collector, and the clerk is ex offcio recorder, the assessor is also treasurer. I desire to ask if it is intended that these officers shall be paid the fees or salaries fixed by the seventh section of the report, or shall they discharge the duties of both of their respective offices and receive pay for only one? The office of sheriff is one of very grave responsibility, in all the counties not under township organization. In the county of Madison the sheriff, as collector, must give a bond of five hundred thousand dollars before permitted to enter upon the duties of the office. The sheriffs in these counties collect all the revenue of the State and coulnty, and also local taxes. They are responsible for the acts of all their subordinates, and are lia ble for all the losses that may occur. It strikes me that the pay fixed in section seven is wholly insufficient. It is not commensurate with the duties they have to perfcrm, and the responsibility they are under. If they are to get pay for only one office, it will be better to separate the offices; but such separation would not be a measure of economy, for the reason that it would necessitate the payment of two officers instead of one. If they are to perform the duties of both offices, they should get pay for both offices. The same .s true of the circuit clerk and recorder, and the assessor and treasurer. As I understand the provisions of section seven, thev will each receive pay but for one office. I would like to be inoformed of the fact, if the contrary is true, because it is a material question, and will influence my action in disposing of the section. My impression is, it would be better to leave some latitude to the General Assembly, to regulate the question of fees and salaries for county officers, as we have already done in regard to State and judicial officers, that they may be paid according to the extent of the duties and responsibilities imposed upon them. The reason that would justify such a course in one cause, would operate equally in the other. I hope the section will not be adopted. Mr. ENGLISH. Mr. Chairman: I desire to offer an amendment, not to the substitute, but to the section itself. The CHAIRMAN. The Chair understands that it is not in order at present. The question is upon the substitute of the gentleman from Willliamson [Mr. Washburn]. The Clerk read the substitute offered by Mr. Washburn, as follows: (except ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ h couard ofge superisor suerirr count sevdcomhs-e nfle n b c m four in the negative, the a mendment was rot agree d t o. Mr. HAY. Mr. Chairman: The gentleman from Greene [Mdr. Englis h], as I understood, made a motion to strike out; and, a s I u nderstand, it is proper to combi ne with that a motion to insert. I propos e to insert the substitute that I here toforae offered to the Co nvention. T he Clerk read the substitute, offered by Mr. Hay, as amended, as f ollows: All laws fixing the fees of State, county and township officers, shall terminate with the terms of the incumbents in office at the meeting of the first General Assembly'after the adoption of this Constitution, and the General Assembly shall, by general law, uniform in its operation, provde for and regulate the fees of the successors to said officers,so as to reduce the same to a reasonable compensa tion for the services rendered. But the General Assembly may classify the counties and regulate the fees of these officers according to business and population; but no county, city or township officer in any county of less than one hundred thousand inhabitants shall receive to his own use in any one year, an amount of fees exceeding in the aggregate twenty-five hundred dollars, and in counties of one hundred thousand or more inhabitants, no county, city or town officer shall receive to his own use in any one year, an amount of fees exceeding in the aggregate four thousand dollars. No increase of the fees of any of said officers shall be allowed to take effect as to any incumbent when such increase is made. This article shall not be construed as deprivingt the General Assembly of the power to reduce the fees of existing incumbents of said offices. Mr. FULLER. I call for a division of the question. The CHAIRMAN. The question will first be on the motion of the gentleman from Greene [Mr. English], to strike out. Mr. MOORE. Mr. Chairman: If that section is adopted it will conflict with two other sections. Section eight of the report on counties, states that the fees shall be uniform throughout the State; and there is also a similar clause in the article in regard to the judiciary. Mr. WASHBURN. Mr. Chairman: I rise to a point of order. The Chair announced a while ago, that when all amendments were disposed of, the vote would be taken upon the motion of the gentleman from Greene [Mr. English], and the substitute offered by myself. The CHAIRMAN. If the Chair recollects rightly, it stated when the friends of the measure had amendments that they desired to adopt, the question would be taken upon them'; and then the question would be upon the motion of the gentleman from Greene [Mr. English], to strike out, and then would come the substitute. The question is up~on the motion of #-:he gentleman from Greene [Mr. English] to strike o~ut. A division was ordered. The committee divided, when, there being twventy-five in the affirmative and thirty-five in the negative, the motion to strike out was not agreed to. Mr. WASHBURN. Mr. Chairman: I wish to) offer the fo~llowing substitute: The board of supervisors or county commissioners of each coulnty shall fix a maximum compensation of each county officer, (except county judge, county supelrvisors and county commissioners, whose compensation ~hall be fixed by the General Assem blat), which shall be paid in fees only, and which shall not exceed two thousand dollars in counties having less than twenty thousand inhabitants, two thousand five hundred dollars in counties having less than forty thousand inhabitants 1three thousand dollars in counties having less than seventy-five thousanld inhabitants; -and thre thousand five counties having less than forty t housand inhabitants; three thousand dollars in counties having less than seventy-five thousand inhabitants; and thirty-five hundred dollars in counties having more than seventv-five thousand inhabitants; and all fees received by them above the maximum fixed, shall be paid by them into the county treasury, and they shall receive no other compensation, pay or perquisite whatever. Mr. CHURCH. I have desired to raise the question at some time during the discussion of this article, as to whether the subjecting the office of sheriff to this same rule could be rendered practicable.; and if I am in order, I would like to move an amendment to the amendment just offered, including the offices of sheriff and coroner within the list of exceptions embraced in the amendment just offered, and I would like to offer some reasons why. It seems to me there are so many circumstances connected with the manner in which the fees of the sheriff are obtained, that it would be a very difficult thing to ascertain what the real compensation is that the office receives in fact. It depen'2s upon the distance that he travels, the amount of business that he may do, causin:g an expenditure in keeping horses and teams. In the exercise of his duties he is obliged to keep one or more deputies, and I can say that it has been the experience of many attorneys that they have been obliged to engage the services of sheriffs at times, when even the fees to be earned by discharging the duties have been no incentive, and that it is necessary sometimes to use extra inducements in or der to require and obtain extra services. In order to get a single summons or other writ served, a sheriff's necessary expenses may sometimes be double the fees. Now, whether the present fees are too high or too low for sheriffs in different counties I am unadvised, not having given the subject consideration, but presume there are counties in the State where by reason of the special legislation on that subject fees have been made too high. My recollection is however that as a general thing, for the last six or eight years, it has been quite difficult in many coun. ties to obtain good and competent men to accept the office of sheriff; that it has not been generally, an office sought for. Nearly all the objections that have been urged against the payment of sala. ries and the payment of fees in excess of the fixed salaries into the county treasury, do not apply to the office of sheriff. It has been asked frequently, how are we to know what fees are collected? -I have heard it once assertedl here that vie arc to know because the record exists by which we call ascertain. That dales not apply to the officee of sheriff. Whlen a summnons has been issued, wvhat fees have been taken for the service of summons, may be ascertained if returned by the sheriff. Mr. UNDERWOOD. Hlow can you ascertain what has been collected fear executions or service of process in other c-unties? Mr. CHURCH. You can never ascertainl unless the process has been returned, served, and has been filed and becoime a portion of the record. In case of the service of subpoenas, it has been the so)urce of complaint among clerks that the return of subpoenas is not always made. Thety therefore are not able to tax up. their costs. If the subpoena is issued, it need not be returned "served," altays, and there The board of supervisors or county commissioners of each, county, shall fix a maximum compensation of each county officer, (except county judge, county supervisors and county commissioners, whose compensation shall be fixed by the General Assembly), which shall be paid in fees only, and which shall not exceed two thousand dollars in counties having less than twenty thousand inhabitants; twenty-five hundred dollars in CONSTITUTIONAI, CONVENTION TUESDAY,' 13i,D6 A vI 1,87. IBTSADROEDNS15 than they should go into the pockets of the officers. I cannot conceive that it is our business to specially legislate on either of these questions. Although a great evil exists regarding them, I do not see how we can better the matter by making the people pay these enormous fees par t l y in to th e pockets of officials and partly into the country treasury. We must leave something to the Legislature. If we legislate here on this question at all, let us have a general provision, mandatory in character, that the Legislature shall cut down these fees first, and then that the officials shall only have a certain amount in each county. Do not stop at touching half the evil. For that reason, I have been, and am now, decidedly in favor of the proposition of the gentleman from Sangamon [Mr. Hay], as the only pr ctical measure introduced here, the only thing consistent with our duty as a Constitutional Convention. But failing that, if we are to legislate on this question to the extent suggested by the advocates of section seven, I am in favor of the substitute of the gentleman from Williamson [Mr. Washburn], as cle arly expressing what it means-much more so than the section as now amended. But I am opposed to this whole scheme of special legislation in a Constitution. We have too much of it now. The great objection urged to our work, so far, is that there have been too many attempts of this kind. Let us go no further, but make up our minds to simply lay down as the fundamental law certain general principles to guide the Legislature in the future, in governing the people. One word more, Mr. Chairman. If we leave this matter to county boards, either boards of supervisors or county commissioners, to determine that the county officials shall receive a certain portion of the fees and the balance shall be paid into the county treasury, we will give to them a temptation to fill the county treasury by this system of indirect taxation to an extent that they would not dare to fill it by direct taxation. We are simply legislating upon a question of taxation, for this payment of fees is purely a tax upon the fee payer. We are legislating it partly into the pockets of the officer, and partly into the county treasury; or, in other words, we are leg t islating that the taxation of the people of certain counties shall be by fees paid into the county treasury, a thing, it seems to me, that is out of our province as a Constitutional Convention to do, and is inconsistent with the principles of uniformity which we have laid down in this Constitution as the just rule of taxation. Mr. YANDEVENTER. Mr. Chairman: As the members of the committee are doubtless weary with the exhaustive and onerous labors of the day, I move that the committee now rise, report progress, and ask leave to sit again at half-past nine o'clock to-morrow morning. The motion was not agreed to. Mr. WASHBURN. Mr. Chairman: I desire to say just a few words in regard to this substitute. There are manifestly two evils intended to be met by this section, or by the substitute; and these are, that the fees are exorbitant, and that is no way of showing in how many cases the fees are charged for work performed. And if the oficer chooses he may receive his compensation by some arrangement, and make no return of fees at all. Mr. WASHBURN. Mr. Chairman: Is that an amendment to the substitute? Mr. CHURCH. Mr. Chairman: I offer it as an amendment to the am endment I just heard read. Mr. WASHBURN. Mr Chairman: I will accept the amendment. Mr. ROSS. Mr. Chairman: Will the officer get any more than he now gets? Mr. HAINES, of Cook (in his seat). Why except coroners? Mr. CHURCH. Mr. Chairman: Because his duties are substantially the same as the sheriffs. The sheriff is placed upon very heavy responsibility. He is responsible for the discharge, not only of his own duties, but the duties of his deputies. And they are so many as to complicate the question. Mr. RICE. Mr. Chairman: I am friendly to the gentleman's motion. It is true, is it not, that the sheriff is also collector in some counties, while, in counties acting under township organization, these offices are separated? So that the same rule would not apply, since the office itself, as to the duties to be performed, is different in different counties. Mr. CHURCH. Mr. Chairman: That is the case, I am aware, but the exceptions will embrace such. I see no reason for changing the form of the amendment. Duties will be performed that cannot be performed by any one man. The sheriff, in serving a single process, may have to ride over all the whole State. Is it contemplated that he may charge for his horse and horse-shoeing, and his "drinks," if he sees fit to take them, and have his necessary expenses counted against his salary? I do not desire to defend that matter. It is a subject deserving of the considera tion of the committee, whether greater evil than good will not rise from an excess of legislation in this Constitution. Mr. WHEATON. Mr. Chairman: I do not know that there is any use in attempting to stem the current that is setting so strongly toward special legislation in this particular. I supposed we met here as a Constitutional Convention to adopt and submit to the people a body of general principles, embracing the organic law of this State — not as a Legislature- to legislate on every conceivable question or provide a remedy against every conceivable evil in this State. I admit in all its breadth, the evil of extortionate fees received by the county officers in various portions of the State; but if we are going to legislate on the question, the legislation now attempted does norge far enough. The trouble is not only in the officers receiving the fees and putting them into their own pockets, but in the amount -of fees themselves;v so that if we would remeedy this evil we should strike at the root of it, take the statute books, examine the amount of fees charged by law for certain services in each county, and cut down those fees to a reasonable standard. If we are going into special legislation, let us go into it thoroughly. There is no reason why these enormous fees should go into the county treasuries any more the officers receive too mr ch money. Now, I apprehend that the substitute will meet and rectify both of these evils. In the first place, it will reduce the amount of the money to be received by the officials; and whenever that is done, the Legislature would, without any other influence, very naturally reduce Pall the fees to just such an amount as will pay the officers for their services. There would be no inducement before the Legislature to keep the fees up; and I apprehen~l that there would be no danger, nor do I think that any member of this committee need apprehend any danger, whenever the limit is fixed, that the offi. cers are to receive, that the Legislature will keep the fees up in order to replenish the county treasury. There is no danger whatever; because public sentiment will compel,them to fix the standard of fees at as low a point as is necessary, or as is compatible with paying officers the amount of money they are allowed to receive. Mr. ROSS. Mr. Chairman: I regret very much the persistent and determined opposition which the report of the Com. mittee on Counties has encountered in respect to fixing the compensation of county officers. I do not regard it as subject to the objection which has been urged by the gentleman from Kane [Mr. Wheaton] and others, that it is special legislation. I do not comprehend how fixing the compensation of county officers, is any more special legislation than fixing the compensation of mem-nbers of the Legislature, State officers, or judges of courts. It is the same principle exactly. The difficulty under the old rule, in determining an uniform bill of fees has been that on any. attempt to reduce the fees considerably, the small counties would at once say that the compensation was not sufficient for the officers to live upon, and that it was necessary to keep the fees up in order to stimulate officers in small counties to discharge their duties. When the fees were fixed at that rate they run up in large counties until the pay now amounts to two or three times as much as is paid to our Governor and the judges of our supreme court; which every man feels at once is a wrong that should not exist. Now, how is that to be remedied? i know of no better way to remedy it than through the report of the Committee on Counlties. I think it is graduated in such a manner as will prove satisfactory to the people. Gentlemen object that officers through their ingenuity and skill, will sometimes get around such a provision. Suppose in some counties they do. Is it then any worse than it is now? Suppose the worst fears of some gentlemen in relation to the position of this measure is fully realized, that in some counties every dollar of fees will be absorbed in paying the compensation of these county officers; are we then any worse off than we are now? Assuredly not. But, sir the excellence and efficiency of this system is, that it is bringing the question of compensation right down to the immediate representations of the counties who have these fees to pay. The bo~ rdl of supervisors will look into these questions, and see that these exhorbitant few~ are no longer paid, without a portion, at least, going into the county treasury. In P DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1357 A-PRIL 19, 1870. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION ir- eral counties, I think that this is a meas n ure of special legislation which we should en avoid. It may be said that these sum t- are proper, and that they should be fixed or as the maximum. The time may corn in when these sums will be altogether inade se quate to pay officers who are competen d. to discharge their duties. tn Again, gentlemen urge that this will b f- a source of revenue. The learned gen d tieman last upon the floor, said that thi y would serve to replenish the depleted ty treasuries of counties. Now, it, is a funda he mental principle of our government tha ill no tax should be laid upon justice, an( y that the costs necessary to carry on a sui nt are the only costs that should be taxed r- upon it; that the State should never at n, tempt to collect a revenue by a tax o ts, justice. s. If this section is adopted, we ought to n be consistent and adopt in connection e therewith, some provision requiring these e officers to give bonds-some provision - that they shall be required to report the - amount of fees that they get-to punish f them if they do not report correctly. It w may be proper that we should leave the o amount of salary to be fixed by the coun at ty boards and county commissioners. e But I believe that it will be special legis] lation with which we cannot safely medo die, if we attempt to limit, by this special r clause, the amount the officers may rer ceive. o It is urged by my colleague from n Stark [Mr. Fuller] that the adoption of this plan would be only taking pressure k from the Legislature and imposing it on L- the board of supervisors, if we allowed a the clerks of the different counties and y officers to apply to them the amount of i- salaries they should take. It may be true L- that the pressure would be upon the a board of supervisors, but the difference e would be this: Instead of having three - hundred or five hundred officers pressing for an increase of fees, upon a body of - one hundred and fifty members of the t Legislature, there would be in this case r only one or two pressing upon a board of t supervisors, consisting of thirty or forty y members, and thus distributing that im mo mense power all over the different coun ties in the State. o Again, sir, we should endeavor to so g frame our Constitution as to meet the - popular will, if we know it. We should t endeavor so to frame our Constitution as f to remove all obstacles in the way of its adoption. I undertake to say that the l incorporation of that section would cre t ate a greater opposition to the article in - which it is incorporated, and if it be sub t mitted with the entire Constitution, will o create a greater opposition than any - other thing that has gone into our Consti t tution. It would be opposed by all those , that now are in office, or expect hereafter ai to obtain office. L Mr. ROSS. Do you propose to give up t State government for the convenience of h county officers? Mr. WELLS. No, sir; but county I officers are a power in the land which we i cannot safely defy. I guarantee that if the sheriffs, the coroners, constables, jus s tices and county clerks of every county a in the State, or -a large majority of the L counties, oppose the Constitution we are framing, that Constitution will be defeat ed just as sure as the sun rises. I believe . this section will contribute to their op position, and it seems to me just as safe p 1358 T-UESDAY, the county which we represent, Mr. Chai man, I believe, that under this provisi we may put annually into our treasury t thousand dollars, and be able to co mand the first talent of the county filling the respective county offices that county. It will give each of the higher officers three thousand dollars a their clerk hire, andstill it is well kno that these officers in the county of F ton receive from eight to ten thousa dollars a year. It is not too much to s that we can save at least, to the coun treasury, ten thousand a year, by t adoption of the provision, and whom wi it hurt? Whom will it damage? If an of your counties have such inefficie boards of supervisors that they will pe mit a few county officers to wheedle the to deceive them, and use up all these fee it is the business of those county board Ia my judgment, there is no propriety 1 exceptidg the office of sheriff from th provisions of this law whatever. In th county of Fulton, sheriffs might get, u d,er the provisions of this law, three tho sand dollars, when the compensation te sheriff of that county for the last fe years, has not exceeded two thousand t twenty-five hundred dollars. It has no been one of the payihg offices in th c-)unty. But the gentleman [Mr. Church says that they have multifarious duties t rform, and that the amount of thei P21es cannot be ascertained; with all thei ]L,Igenuity, gentlemen have bee]] able t fl -id but few cases where process has bee a,-nt from other counties to be served. Mr. CHURCH. I would like to as whether, if theofficer, after he has al ready received the salary, has served subpoena in which thefes were twent o-r forty dollars, it would not be an in' ducement to him to accept private com pedsation for that labor, and not make return of the subpoena, whereby could b ascertained his fees for serving the sub pcena. Mr. ROSS. Mr. Chairman: If theged tleman is going upon the hypothesis tha all our officers are scoundrels, hunting fo s:-)nie way to avoid the law, he may pu it in that form. But, the gentleman m provide that a penalty may be affixed t every violation of law in this respect. We may require the county officers t ve bonds to settle their accounts wit fhie boards of su ervisors at stated eri and wise to leave out this special legislation. I believe the board of supervisors can fix matters without dictation from us. I believe it would be better to leave the matter with them. Mr. ROSS. Does not the report of the committee leave it with the board of supervisors? Mr. WELLS. Yes, it does; but I want to have the limitation stricken out. There is hardly a county in the State whose clerk is not now receiving two or three times more than he would receive if this section were enforced against him. The clerks will at once bitterly oppose the section and all connected with it. Then, of course, all the opposition they can command is concentrated against that section and any other section that is any way connected with it. Mr. ROSS. It does not apply to those in office. Mr. WELLS. I was not saying it did; but I say this will create the opposition of every one who is, and expects to be hereafter, in office. Mr. HAINES, of Lake. Who are they? Mr. WELLS. Their name is legion. They are in every county in the State. They were alluded to by the gentleman from De Witt as the "court-house clique," arid the "men that sit on dry goods boxes, whittling.". Mr. WASHBURN. If it is true that the officers are receiving four times the maximum mentioned in the section and ,.the substitute, is not that one reason why this Convention should take action to prevent them from receiving such sums of money? Mr. WELLS. It may be popular with certain men to strike at the fees of existidg officers, but to strike a direct blow at all the men who expect office is as. hopeless as to dam the waters of the Mississippi. It cannot be done. The Constitiilclon that would undertake to do that would be defeated by an overwhelmiDg Vote. Mr. ROSS. Would not the people defeat the office-holders? Mr. WELLS. The office-holders have the ear of the people nearer than the meml-ers of the Convention. We can so easily avoid this opposition, and still accomplish all that the most ardent gentleman desires that it is fol The office-holders have the ear of the people nearer than the members of the Convention'. That is the trouble. There are more of them. They exercise a power in the land which we do not. They, of course, would not avow the real reason of their opposition, but their opposition would beuone the less open and potent, because of the real reason being concealed. If we can avoid their hostility, and at the same time avoid the charge of special legislation, by all means let us do SO. Mr. BROMWELL. Mr. Chairman: It seems to me that almost every sort of suggestion is resorted to here, that the Convention may be sure to go awa and y do nothing on the question of fees and salaries. Now, the last speech made on this floor comes out a little more plainly than we are accustomed to hear. The gentleman from Peoria [Mr. Wells] lets us know that the ofuce-holders are not to be - attacked-that they are a power in the APRIL 19, 1870. DEBATES AXD PROCEEDINGS. 1359 s one of these county offices for two thou a. sand dollars, to a competent man who - would jump at the chance? Certainly r Within a hundred yards of every court r house door, one may find a banker's clerk s or cashier, or merchant's clerk, carrying 1 on business which is acknowledged to re1 quire as much and more knowledge and skill-for mnonied men never employ as sistants, unless they are qualified, while t hundreds are elected, as all know, who are not qualified. This thing of piling up money in the hands of officers, has no foundation in rea son, as even, if the duties of the office n were worth the money, the office-holders ? are not in all cases qualified to discharge t its duties. [Here the hammer fell.] Mr. HAYES. Mr. Chairman: One objection occurs to me to the amendment i of the gentleman from Williamson [Mr. - Washburn]. That amendment resembles r in many respects the proposition for which it is intended as a substitute. The material difference is that by the amend ment the office holder is compelled to accept the amount fixed in the amendt ment as his compensation, and as his al lowance for all the help he may have oc , casion to employ. All his deputies and assistants are included in that compensa tion. For example, where the clerk of the circuit court is allowed two thousand dollars per annum, under the amendment of the gentleman from Williamson [Mr. Washburn] he is required to pay out of that two thousand dollars for the hire of his clerks, the pay of his deputies, and for the recording that is done in his office. That provision will destroy it self. The people will see that it is impossi ble in the large counties to carry on the office of clerk of the circuit court upon a compensation of two thousand dollars, paying all clerk hire, etc., out of that sum. Take the office of clerk of the cir. cuit co urt of this county. I venture to say that the recording alone in this county will cost three thousand or four thousand dollars per annum. Do we intend to give this circuit clerk only two thousand dollars for discharging all the duties of clerk and those of recorder besides, and then compel him to pay out of his own pocket the three thousand or four thousand dollars for clerk hire? I think the amendment of the gentleman is not so well cont sidered as the proposition reported from the committee. That proposition, like the gentleman's, fixes a maximum, because under it the officers cannot receive any-thing more than the fees. Therefore, there is a maximum; it is limited, as amended, to the fees actually collected. In that respect, sir, it is the same with the amendment of the gentleman. But, sir, it provides besides that the county boards, in fixing the compensation shall also determine what pay shall be allowed for the help that is employed the deputies, clerks and the official aid which the officer has in his office, besides the incidental expenses of stationery and of fuel. That is the essential difference sir, between the two propositions. It is, therefore, apparent to my mind that the proposition which came from the committee, and which was agreed to unanimously in the committee as I understand, and which has met with so much favor here, is better considered than that of the gentleman - from Williamson r[Mr. Washburn], and that it will accomplish the object sought, . to better advantage than his proposition. Now, sir, a single word upon the main c question. Mr. BROMWELL. Mr. Chairman: I - woluld like to ask the gentleman, with l bis permission, if. the county boards do not always furnish the officers all the stationery and fuel necessary? Mr. HAYES. I believe they do, sir. So far as stationery is concerned, that is a very small item-stationery and fuel. The main item is the employment of deputies, the employment of labor in the office. Why, sir, in the county of Cook, where the amendment of the gentleman allows $3,500 a year, I am told by the recorder that he pays out $20,000 a year for clerk hire. Are we willing to stop business in a county like the county of Cook; to stop the recording of deeds; to stop all their public business, by compelling the officer to perform the duties of his office and to pay out ten times as much as we allow him for the performance of his duties? But, sir, when you obviate that diffi culty, as it is obviated by the report of the committee, we put the proposition in a shape that is fair, just and right in it self, and that is to pay to each laborer whatever his labor is worth. Pay in each class of counties, to each of these officers that compensation to which he is fairly entitled by the services that he ren ders to the public. Do not pay him an exorbitant compensation, and allow him to enrich himself out of the fees that he collects from the mass of the community, but simply give him as much, and fully as much, and no more, as he fairly earns by performing his duties. Then, sir, I am not afraid but that the people of the different counties, and the Legislature of the State will find means to coerce the performance of these duties, on the part of these officers. I am satis fied that in a very short time any evils which may occur will find their remedy. The people will turn unworthy servants out of office. They will put in men who are faithful. I must admit that at the outset, I had some doubts myself on the subject, but the remarks made by my colleague [Mr. Anthony] had great effect upon my mind. They proved to me, sir, that he had investigated the facts in the case, that he had gone to the very source of inlformation, and that he had ascertained it to be a fact in the business of the United States, in the different circulits, the fees collected amounted to a great deal more than the emoluments of the officers collecting them. Those officers were paid by Salaries fixed by law, and the fees collected and paid over, under the laws which give them those salaries. :Now, sir, I for one, hope to see the day when a j udge of our courts, a man learned inl the law, a man who, from his boyhood has spent his days and his nights in the study of the law, and has attained the stature of a great man in jurisprudence, can receive a little more pay from the hands of an intelligent people than the man who merely signs his name to a writ, or the man who saddles his horse and rides to the swamps, to serve that writ on his neighbor. I hope to see the dayr when those petty officers in the different counties who are now receiving excessive a shall be cut down to the payr which tPem t I t a s t APP.]RL 19) 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1359 State, as some gentlemen a few month ago assured us in respect to the press Have the people, who sent the Conven tion here, done so, to be told that thei representatives cannot do this, that, an the other thidg, because the office-holder will humbug the people themselves, an drive their representatives, people an all to the wall? I have heard too muc of this already. Is this Convention tob scared from its post by parading wha the office-holders demand? Besides, there is too much sophistry in the opposition to these reforms. How are our taxes collected to-day? Are they not scattered in small amounts in every neighborhood-at every man's door? Will any one argue that the taxes cannot be collected? Why, then, may not a five dollar fee be collected, as well as the same amount in taxes? Do not the collectors perform the duties for which they are elected, while they have no interest in the funds, but a trifling per cent? Gentlemen seem alarmed for fear some fees, paid by litigants, may go into the county treasury for the benefit of the taxpayers. I repeat'the question, which has again and again been asked, and never aiaswered. What worse is it for fees, paid by litigants, to go into the public treasury, than as now, into private pockets-forming a system, by which the g ntlen-ian. from Marshall [Mr. Perley] said a man was enabled to pay another twenty five hundred dollars to keep out of the way of his nomination to a county office. Mr. ROSS. Mr. Chairman: The explanation of that is, that these officeholders have -o many fees, and so much money under their control, that they can use it to control the people. Mr. BROMWELL. Mr. Chairman: That is the very thing, sir. Money is power-money makes the mare go. As ihe old proverb says, "If you steal, steal enough for the jury." If you plunder, plunder enough to satisfy the committee of investigation. Take enough to pay your way out of trouble. Thus these office-holders, according to the gentleman from Peoria [Mr. Wells] are by these sure means acquiring such an influence that the Convention are to be scared out of doing their duty. I protest aaainst being driven from doin an thin. I find that 13O cosTITUTIoAL COYETIO TUESDAY, ficio recorder, in all counties having less than -- inhabitants, who shall hold his office for four years, and until his successor shall be elected and qualified. There shall also be elected in each county in this State, a sheriff, who shall be ex officio collector in counties that have not adoptedtownship organization; treasurers, surveyors and coroners, each of whom shall enter upon the duties of their offices on the first Monday of December after their election. who shall hold their offices for two years, and until their successors shall be elected and qualified. Said officers shall succeed the present clerks of the circuit courts, sheriffs, treasurers, and coroners at the expiration of their respective terms of office. The General Assembly shall prescribe uniform rates of fees, or fees and salaries, for all county officers, and when the fees and salary of any such officer shall exceed -- dollars per annum, such portion of the excess above that sum, as the General Assembly shall prescribe (not less than one halt), shall be paid into the county treasury. Mr. ANTHONY. I would inquire if that substitute is in order? The CHAIRMAN. The Chair thinks not. Mr. WHEATON. is there a substitute before the committee? The CHAIRMAN. The question before the committee is the section as amended. Mr. WHEATON. I move the adoption of the substitute offered by the gentleman from Sangamon [Mr. Hay]. Mr. HAYES. I understand that has been acted upon. The question was to strike out and insert. Mr. WHEATON. There has nothing been inserted, therefore it hasnot been acted upon. T il The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman from Greene [Mr. English] moved to strike out. The gentleman from Sangamon [Mr. Hay] moved to insert, coupling that with the motion of the gentleman from Greene [Mr. English]. A division was called for, and the committee refused to strike out, virtually defeating both motions. It could not insert without striking out. Mr. WHEATON. This is now offered as a substitute for the section, to which I have an amendment. Mr. HAYES. Mr. Chairman: I rise to a point of order. The substitute of the gentleman from Sangamon [Mr. Hay] has already been acted upon, and it cannot be introduced again at this stage of the proceedings. The proposition was to strike out as stated by the Chair. The propo sition was amended, by making it a motion to strike out and insert the proposition of the gentleman from Sangamon[Mr. Hay]. A division of the question was had, and the question was taken upon striking out, and the committee refused to strike out. If it had been taken upon striking out solely, no substitute could have been in order; but, being upon the proposition to strike out, and insert the prop,sition of the gentleman from Sangamon [Mr. Hay], it is in order afterwards to move to strike out, and insert some other proposition, but not to insert the propositione of the gentleman from Sangamon [Mr. Hay.] Mr. WHEATON. Mr. Chairman: If the question had not been divided, and the committee had voted upon it, as it stood previous to a division being ordered, the vote would have covered both questions; and, having refused to insert, the matter would have been disposed of. The question has been divided. A vote has been taken, simply upon the motion to strike out. The motion of the gentle- o ought to have, and when a judge upon the bench who has intelligence, intellect and learni ng, whose la bors in the law are sustain ing and hol ding up the very frame-work of the government, sha ll rece ive comp ensati on accordin g t o hi s deserts. Anvd, sir, as the fir st step in that direction, I wish to aid in breaking up these county rings, and these cliques, organized at the different county seats, for the purpose of obtaining and perpetuating power and wealth. I believe the section in question will accomplish this object, and the people will thank us for this day's work, if we adopt it. ["Question," "Question."] Tile CHAIRMAN. The question is upon the adoption of the substitute of the gentleman from Williamson [Mr. Washburn]. The Clerk read the substitute offered by Mr. Washburn, as amended by Mr. Church, as follows: The board of supervisors or county commissioners of each county shall fix a maximum compensation of each county officer (except sheriff, coroner, county judge, county supervisors and county commissioners, whose compensation shall be fixed by the General Assembly), which shall be paid in fees only, and which shall not exceed two thousand dollars in counties having less than twenty thousand inhabitants; two thousand five hunred dollars in counties having less than forty thousand inhabitants; three thousand dollars in counties having less than seventy-five thousand inhabitants; and three thousand five hundred dollars in counties having more than seventy-five thousand inhabitants; and all fees received by them above the maximum fixed, shall be paid by them into the county treasury, and they shall receive no other compensation, pay or perquisite whatever. The substitute offered by Mr. Washburn was not agreed to. Mr. FULLER. For information, if there is no objection, I would be glad if the substitute I offered this morning might be read. It seems to me that we are tangled up, and that is a simple way of getting out. The CHAIRMAN. The Clerk will read the section as amended, and the substitute offered by the gentleman from Stark [Mr. Fuller]. The Clerk read section seven, as amended, as follows: SEC. 7. The county board shall fix the compensation of all county officers, with the amount of their necessary clerk hire, stationery, fuel, and other expenses, and in all Gases where fees are provided for, the same shall be paid only out of, and shall in no instance exceed, the fees actually collected. They shall not allow either of them more per annum than fifteen hundred dollars, in counties not exceeding twenty thousand inhabitants; two thousand dollars in counties containing twenty and not exceeding thirty thousand inhabitants, twenty-five hundred dollars in counties containing thirty and not exczeeding fifty thousand inhabitants;* three thousand dollars in counties cont~aining fifty and not exceeding seventy thousand inhabitants; thirty five hundred dollars in counties containing seventy and not exceeding one hundred thousand inhabitants; and four thousand dollars in counties containinlg over onle hundred and not exceeding two hundred and fifty thousand inhabitants; and not more than one thousand dollars additional salary for each additional one hundred thousand inhabitants; and all fees or allowances by them received, in excess of their salary, shall be paid into the county treasury. Also, the substitute offered by Mr. iFuller, as amended, as follows: There shall be elected in each county in this State, except the county of Cook, at such time as is, or may be prescribed by law, a clerk of the circuit court, who shall be e:~ of man from Sangamon [Mr. Hay] to insert has never been passed upon at all. :dir. HAYES. Mr. Chairman: A motlon to strike o ut a nd i nsert is divisible unde or our rules. B ut w hen a vote is taken upon on e of the proposi tion s int o which the que stio n i s d ivided, and that proposition is rejected, that has the effect to destroy the whole. If the motion to strike out is lost, the effect is the same as though a vote were taken upon the whole and it were rejected. The CHAIRMAN. The Chair is of the opinion that the rule is as stated by the gentleman from Cook [Mr. Hayes]. Mr. WHEATON. Mr. Chairman: It has never been offered as a substitute. I now offer it as a substitute. It is a rule of parliamentary law —even if the gentleman from Cook [Mr. Hayes] is correct, which I deny-that the same thing with other words can be offered for insertion. I now offer the substitute of the gentleman from Sangamon [.Mr. Hay] with my amendment attached to it; and I insist that it is in order, and I ask the Clerk to read it. The Clerk read the substitute offered by Mr. Wheaton, as follows: All laws fixing the fees of State, county and township officers, shall terminate with the terms of the incumbents in office at the meeting of the first General Assembly after the adoption of this Constitution; and the General Assembly shall, by general law, uniform in its operation, provide for and regulate the fees of the successors to said offices, so as to reduce the same to a reasonable compensation for the services rendered. But the General Assembly may classify the counties and regulate the fees of officers thereof according to business and population; but no county, city or town officer in any county of less than one hundred thousand inhabitants, shall re. ceive to his own use, in any one year, an amount of fees exceeding in the aggregate twenty five hundred dollars, and in counties of one hundred thousand or more inhabitants, no county, city or town officer shall receive to his own use, in any one year, an amount of fees exceeding in the aggregate four thousand dollars. No increase of the fees of any of said officers shall be allowed to take effect as to any incumbent, when such increase is made. This article shall not be construed as depriving the General Assembly of the power to reduce the fees of existing incumbents in office. Mr.' TINCHER. Mr. Chairman: It may be that the committee is very anxious to take a vote. I have been for several hours. I have got out of that notion of taking a vote now, This is a question of too mulch importance to vote upon, un less we have matured the whole issue. If it is a matter for legislation, let us act accordingly; and if it is a fit subject for a constitutional provision, let us make a good provision at this point. I tell gentlemen there is a great deal of importance attached to it. I am not now prepared to make a speech; neither am I prepared to vote; but I simply rise to move- that the committee rise, report progress, and ask leave to sit again at nine o'clock to-morrow morning. A division was ordered. The comnmittee divided, when, there being twenty-nine in the affirmative and twenlty-five in the negative, the motion was agreed to. CONSTIT'UTIONAL CONYENTION TUESDAY, 1360 ADJO'URNMENT. Mr. ATKINS. I move that the Convention do now adjourn. The motion was agreed to. So the Convention (at five o'clock) adjourned. p APML 19, 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1361 paid only out of, and shall in no instance ex ceed the fees actually collected. They shall not allow either of them more per annum than fifteen hundred dollars, in counties not ex ceeding twenty thousand inhabitants; two thousand dollars in counties containing twen ty, and not exceeding thirty thousand inhab itants; twenty-five hundred dollars in coun ties containing thirty, and not exceeding fifty thousand inhabitants; three thousand dollars in counties containing fifty, and not exceeding seventy thousand inhabitants; thirty-five hundred dollars in counties containing seven ty, and not exceeding one hundred thousand inhabitants; and four thousand dollars in counties containing over one hundred thou sand and not exceeding two hundred and fifty thousand inhabitants, and not more than one thousand dollars additional salary for each additional one hundred thousand in habitants. All fees or allowances by them received, in excess of their salary, shall be paid into the county treasury. Als;l, the substitute offered by Mr. Wheaton, as follows: All laws fixing the fees of State, county and township officers, shall terminate with the terms of the incumbents in office, at the meeting of the first General Assembly after the adoption of this Constitution; and the General Assembly shall, by general law, uni form in its operation, provide for and regulate the fees of the successors to said officers, so as to reduce the same- to a reasonable compen sation for the services rendered. But the Gen eral Assembly may classify the counties, and regulate the fees of the officers thereof, ac cording to business and population; but no county, city or town officer in any county of less than one huindred thousand inhabitants shall receive to his own use in any one year an amount of fees exceeding in the aggre gate twenty-five hundred dollars, and in coun ties of more than one hundred thousand in habitants, no county, city or town officer shall receive to his own use in any one year, an amount of fees exceeding in the aggregate four thousand dollars. No increase of the fees of any of said officers shall be allowed to take effect as to any incumbent, when such increase is made. This article shall not be construed as depriving the General Assembly of the power to reduce the fees of existing incumbents of said offices. The CHAIRMAN. The question is upon the substitute offered by the gen tleman from Kane [Mr. Wheaton]. The substitute was not agreed to. Mr. WHEATON. Mr. Chairman: I now move to amend by striking out the words "their salaries" in the tenth line, and inserting the words "the respective aamounts above mentioned." iMr. MOORE. The objection to that amendment will be this: that it takes away from the county board the right to say that these fees shall be less than those specified in a former portion of the same section. r G:Mr. PERLEY. Allow me to suggest that it might be well that a board of su pervisors should not be allowed to reduce that amount. There might be a board politically TMr. WHEATON. To relieve the objection, I will change the phraseology, and say, "in excess of their said compcns%tion." Mr. MOORE. That will do. Mr. PERLEY. Mr. Chairman: I do not want to make a speech, or take up any time; but I wish to suggest to the committee if it would not be well to guard against the contingency of a board, after some county officer was elected, from polical hostility or some other cause, reducing his salary to nothi ng. I can conceive that a board, for some reason or other, might see fit to starve out an officer. It might be well th at that should be guarded against. As they cannot go above a certain sum, So a wb oard should not be allowed to turn out of office by reducing his salary to nothing, an officer who wasielected by the people. Mr. SHERRILL. Mr. Chairman: I do not believe tha t the further discussion of this question will change the vote of a single member of this committee. I am in favor of adopting the seventh section down to t he ninth line. I think the clause respecting the clerk hire, sta tionery and fuel, had better be left to the auditing board of the county, composed as it is, of one man from each town in the county. Individually a tax payer would be likely to examine those accounts care fully, and if errors were discovered, or false charges made, would fearlessly dis close and publish them. The officers knowing, this, would be cautious about presenting an unfair account, and swear ing to it. They would dislike to have their unjust accounts published, so that their constituents might see what others thought of them and the supervisors, too, if they were disposed to be lenient, and allow the unjust accounts presented by these officers, would have to answer to their constituents when they returned home. This fact would serve as a check on both the officer presenting the ac count and the board of auditors; for their proceedings are always published in the county paper, and every tax-payer who, not taking a paper, would, under some pretense or other, borrow of his neighbor this one. If all the counties in the State were as fortunate as we have been in securing competent and faithful officers, there would be little trouble on this score; or if we could be as sure in the future of securing the services of such men as we have in the past, I should have no fears of frauds being committed. Our sheriff went to the war a strong, able man, re turned with one arm less; our treasurer with one limb less; our circuit clerk, than whom- no more competent or faithful man ever filled the office, returned on crutches, and so these men must tread through life. Our county clerk, too, a specimen of God's noblest work, an honest man, competent to fill any office within the gift of the people, whose character for truth and ve — racity stands so high that no slanderous: breath of suspicion could injure him, re turned with an impaired constitution. Such men will not steal. Mr. UNDERWOOD. Mr. Chairman: I wish to offer the following proviso: 2Provided, That the compensation of no officer shall be increased or diminished during his term of offiec. That will operate both ways. It will prevent officcrs annoying a board to increa,se their compensation, and also prevent the board from diminishing the comtpensation of a worthy officer.. The CHAIRMAN. The question is on the adoption of the amnendment of the gentleman fromn Kane [Mr. Wheaton]. The amendment was agreed to. The CHAIRMIAN. The question is on the amendment of the gentleman from St Clair [Mr. Underwood]. The Clerk read the amendment offered by Mr. IUnderwfood, as follows: Insert after the word "rgery, pasyment o forged bonds or otherwise It woul( make these persons who wish to avai themselves of this law, take their owl risk when they choose him as their agedt and take care that he is a safe man, o that they are made secure. Then, if the: m~,~ke hlim their agent, they are responsi ble for their choice, and he to theme fo his acts. Then, although these dutie will be all really foreign to the Treasum er's office and proper functions, his pel forming them can work no great harm t the tax-payers of the State. But if th poratiooas have reported among other seca mio-s, one to the effect that fo reign cor itorations, doing business in this State, silal make a deposit of capital equal to the em-)unt of business to be transacted by them in the State, as security to the pe_rsons with whom they may do business. If tii,, section is adopted as it now reads, can that deposit be made? I ask gentle men of this Convention if there is any other interest confided to their hands more important than that of the protec tion of the citizen against foreign cor p,r: tions doing business in the State? Adopt this section, and the section re ported by the Committee on Miscellane ous Corporations cannot be enforced un less you create an additional office in which these securities shall be deposited. Again, as was well suggested by the gen tleman from Peoria [Mr. Wells], it has been found to be advisable in the past, and I apprehend it will be in the future, to require money, under the control of courts, belonging to unknown persons, to be deposited for safe keeping with the Treasurer, and yet that hereafter cannot be done if this section is adopted. Other cases might readily be conceived of like character. We have not had pointed out by any gentleman who has argued in fa vor of this section, any positive injury that the State has suffered under the present Constitution in this respect. The gentleman from Cook [Mr. Anthony] did not point to a single instance in which the State of Illinois, under the present Constitution, has lost a dollar in this respect. He did not point to a single instance in which the State Treasurer suffered, either in reputation or in pocket, in this respect, under the present Consti tution. But it is asserted by the gentleman from McHenry [Mr. Church] that, by the 1filure to adopt the provision, the State will become the guarantor of the pay ment of every dollar of money that may be placed under the control of the Treas urer by virtue of the law of 1869. I ap prehend that that conclusion is not sus tained by sound reasoning. Mr. CHURCH. Mr. President: [The gentleman from Clark [Mr. Scholfield] has not stated my position correctly. It is easy for him to set up pins, and then knock them over again. Mr. SCHOLFIELD. Mr. President: I have stated the gentleman's po)sition, as [ understand it. I like to hear from the genltleman's own lips that it is not his position, because I deem it to be a very fallacious onle. Mr. CHUR{CH. Mr. President: Istated that if the moneys should have been de posited and lost by' the fraud of the Treasulrer, the State would be liable, the same as an individual or corporation. Mr. SCHOLFIELD. Mr. President: 'As the law of 1869 contains an express sti pulation that the State shall not be held responsible for the motney thus deposited, in case of less, it would seem !clear that the remedy would be against the Treasurer personally and not against the State. No) claim could be enforced against the State except through the Legislature. There would, in my iudgment, be no moral claim, and hbence no; strong inducement to the Legislature to disregard the legal rights. Then, it seems to me if there has been no great injury and no -great wrong to the State under the Con stitution as it is int this respect) there iu DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1381 Api?.IL 20, 1870. I 1382 COSTITUTJOAL COYETION WEDNESDAY, tainly to make the best they can out of their bargain, whether I would have opposed the law of 1869 or not. I want the towns and counties which have involved themselves in indebtedness, to go ahead now on the bestpossible terms, and would give them every facility to accomplish that end. Therefore I suggest to the gentlemen who are dissatisfied with what the committee thought was a reasonable provision here, to prepare such amendme:,ts as will at some time in the future withdraw the treasury of the State from the pesi+ion in which it is about being placed by the operation of the law of 1869, and by perhaps a dozen other laws, th er ieafter to come, and such provisions as wrwig secure the interest of those towns and counties and the holders of their bonus I can assure the gentleman from Crawford [Mr. Allen] and the gentleman from Clark [Mr. Scholfield], I do not want this Convention to put constitutional provisions in any such collision (and there is no need of it), with the rights of these corporations or creditors. Let them, in devising a mode in which a provision similar to that of this report, can be adopted, at the same time saving the rights which they claim have been created under the law of 1869, exercise the same amount of ingenuity which they do in devising arguments against the section, and they will accomplish the whole result tfkey desire. F-)r my part it seems to me the section will not jeopardize those rights. The Constitution does not go into effect today. There would be time for the Legislature, and if there be not, there can be time taken by this Convention, either in the schedule or in this article, for the Legislature to make ample provision for all that is required. But I dio insist that gentlemen ought not to be willing to leave the treasury in this condition. It is involving the State in risk and trouble. The State here is made the custodian of a thousand different funds. The Treasurer, in his official capacity, is allowed to embark in business on behalf of corporations and their creditors, and is even compelled as an officer of the State, and not as an individual, but in his official capacity, to act in a good many respects as their banker or broker. Mr. AN'HONY. Mr. President: The gentleman from Clark [Mr. Sholfield] wf his remarks, as I understood him, said th at I had not pointed out to the Conventiin any evils that had arisen under the law of 1869. Mr. SCHOLFIELD. Mr. President: The gentleman must have misunderstood. What I said was, that he had not showed any evil that had arisen. IMr. ANTHONY. Very well. The taw of 1869- a Mr. FOX. Mr. President: I call the gentleman to order. There is a rule that pno gentleman can speak twice on the sa8me question. The PRESIDENT. The point of order is sustained. Mr. ANTHONY. Mr. President: I ask the indulgence of the Convention for a minute. ["Go on."] The PRESIDENT. The gentleman can only proceed by unanimous consent. ["Go on t" "Go on!"] no reason why, from mere appre hension this restriction should in the future be thrown around the Treasurer, when it is evident that it must work injustice to so many interests. If this section is adopted as it is, I vwrily believe in less than teil years time, there will be another office created in which thes e depo sits can be made, and a salary created for the inacumbent, to be paid out of the State treasury. Mr. BROMWELL. Mr. President: If the gentlemen from Crawuford [.Mr. Allen], Clark [Mr. Scholfield], and other counties, think this clause brings the Constitution in collision with the vested right.s of the parties, and at the same time.as e willing to stop what appears to be a growing evil, in allowing an officer of the State to be banker, broker, general agent and factotum of every description of municipality and corporation; private individuals and all, and are desirous of having this work done right, it seems to me they ought not to oppose, as a whole, a section which would bring the Treasurer into the proper position, but should offer such amendments to it as will relieve individual rights and municipal rights which may be endangered. They could do this by fixing a time after which the Treasurer should not act as the agent of any municipality or corporation; and ia the meantime the Legislature could m,ake proper provision, that none of the inter. ests involved should suffer. But they strike at the entire section. Now, I ask the gentlemen to reflect as to whether it is best that the Treasurer's office is to be held as a place of business for every sort of corporation for all time, under all statutes that'may happen to be hurried through the Legislature in the future. I believe it is admitted, by a large ma jority of this Convention, that great evils are to be apprehended from the effects of the statue of 1869. Everybody can see that it is a -premium to all counties and cities and towns and townships, to elgage at once in running in debt to the highest extent for which they can get credit, that it is being acted upon, and that, although at present, when pay day has not come on a single bond, while there is nothing to pay but the interest, it looks very favorable to the interests of all, and works of internal Uimprovement are progressing under this system, yet it is not a wvhit more favorable in prospect than was the operation of the laws of'ENS8 at the time when the debt had been incurred, when there was nlothinzg to pay, but money was being expended ill making railroads.all over the State. The overwhelming disasters which followed in the wake of that expenditure are still dwelling in the memory of all the people of this State. It is useless for gentlemen to insist here that the Constitutional Convention cannot repeal the law under which a corporation or individual has secured such interests as are contemplated in the law of 1869. It is a mere question of business convenience to private purchasers of bonds, and which can be repealed at any moment. I have no confidence in the idea that we could not repeal that law out and out, so far as legal rights are concerned. Bult I do not want to do anything —I would be among the last to ask this Conuention to do anything to injure to the least degree the rights of any of those towns and counties. I want them cer Mr. FOX. Mr. President: I did not raise the point of o rd er f ro m any opposition to the gen tleman's speech. Mr. ANTHONY. Mr. President: This law of 1869 has been passed but a few months. It is recent; and yet there have already been about three millions and a half dollars of the bonds of towns, cities and villages registered under that law. Since the discussion ofthis question a few weeks ago, more than a million of Collars has come in; since the recess, more than a half million. To take care of these bonls and pay the interest on them, is a burden which the State of Illinois ought not to assume. We make the Treasurer the agent of each one of these towns, cities and villiag,,s, for paying the interest on their bonds. Thie Treasurer is made the custodian of private revenues, when he should be custodian only of public revenues. That, in nmy judgment, would lead to great difficulties, and is already an evil. The gentleman fromn Crawford [Mr. Allen] said I was mistaken in the scope of this law. Let us see. Section five says: The State shall be deemed the custodian only of the several taxes so collected and credited to such county, township, city or town, and shall not be deemed in any manner liable on account of such bonds. The State Treasurer does not collect the taxes. The State is only custodian, and if the custodian was changed, the tax collectors would still exist, and could collect the taxes for the counties, towns, etc., and the counties could pay the same out of their offices juast as well as the State Treasurer could do it. Now, where is there any interference with vested rights, if the custodian of these taxes, or the paymaster is change -,"? I said here, a few weeks ago, that I was not opposed to towns, cities, villages, etc., subscribing for building railroads if they paid the same; but I am opposed to making the State qreasurer their fiscal agent. The gentleman from Crawford [Mr. Allen], says that by this section we might cut off the State from allowing the deposit of the funds of widows and orphans with the State Treasurer. Sir, it says: He shall not act as the agent, in any capacity, of any county, city, town, township, village, public or private corporation, association or individual,in paying their debts or the interest thereon. If funds of widows and orphans were deposited under this, would it be paying their debts? Not at all. Then the remarks of the gentleman cannot apply to this section, for this relates onl.~ to the payment of debts belonging to corporations and individuals, etc. If a widow or orphan has money deposited with the State Treasurer, it would be held merely by him as custodian —not for paying debts at all. But, sir, can we not change the custodian of our State taxes? The law of 1869 says the State shaill be merely the custodian. Can we not change the custodian? And if we should, would that repeal this law of 1869, or interfere with the vested rights of any body? Not at all. :Mr. SCHO;LFIELD. I call the attention of the gentleman to the latter clause of the sentence he has been reading. It relates to receivimg deposits. Mr. ANTHONY. I anm aware of that clause, but in my judgment the construction put upon it by the gentleman from CONSTITUTIONAL CO.NVENTION WED-NESDAY, 1382 0 APRIL 20, 1870. DEBATI~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~S AXI) ~~~~~~~~~~~ROCEJ~~~~~~~~DINGS. 138~~~~~~~~~~~ Morgan [Mr. Atkins] iu regard to that, negatives that idea, that the State shall the ill that has grown out of it? There negatives that idea, that the State shall be responsible for it. But I am not here to-day to discuss any particular statute. It is not a stat ute that we ha.'e under consideration. We are considering a principle that I think should go all through this Consti tution; and that is that the duties of the different officers of this State should be left to be defined by the Legislature. Now, sir, the next section after the one that we are discussing-section twenty three-reads as follows: The duties of the Auditor, Treasurer, Sec retary of State, Attorney General, and Su perintendent of Public Instruction shall be prescribed by law. That is enough definition of their du ties to impose upon them just such duties as the Legislature in its wisdom may see fi. Gentlemen have to-day endeavored to cover up the idea in this discussion, that they are endeavoring to repeal or to cir cumvent the law of 1869, but in almost every remark that drops from their lips, crops out the fact that they are trying to repeal a statute. That is not the purpose for which we are here. The principle inculcated in the statute of 1869, is in foirce in the State of Illi nois, and has never been attacked betfore. It has been perfectly recognized in prin ciple; but because a substitute does not happen to have anything to do with their particular locality, gentlemen endeavor to head it off by a constitutional amend ment. The law of 1869, so far as it af fects the State Treasurer, establishes no new principle. Are there not just such statutes as this in force in every State of this union? Have such statutes not been in force in this State from the time of the adoption of the Constitution of 1848 down to the present time, without any in terruption whatever?-not this particular statute, but statutes covering the same scope, and statutes recognizing that priin ciple, so far as it applies to the State Treasurer. Under the banking law of this State he is required to keep in his office depos its for the benefit of those who are bill holders in Illinois banks. Now, the gen tle man from Cook [Mr. Anthony] never manifested a desire to keep that. He was, with me, a member of the Conven tion of 1862. He then must have known that this law in regard to insurance companies having deposits on file in the State treasury was in force. He must have known that the law requiring the State Treasurer to keep bonds for the security of bill-holders in banks incorporated in this State, was in force. He must have known the statute in regard to the State Treasurer holding funds belonging to unknown persons, and minors and persons of weak mind, was in force at that time, requiring those funds to be deposited with the State Treasurer for the benefit of their representatives when they called for them. He never attacked this system of legislation up to that time. It never was attacked by anybody. In answer to a question proposed by the gentleman from Clark [Mr.Scholfield], the gentleman from Cook [Mr. Anthony] stated that this provision had not been in force until last February, and therefore he could not mention any instance of wrong being done by reason of it. There has been a similar provision in effect for twenty-five years in this State. Where is API-ZIL 20, 1870. DEBATES ANIJ PROCEEDINGS. 138 Morgan ['i'4r. AtkiDS] in regard to that, was a perfect answer to the gentleman's position. The State Treasurer would be acting as a public trustee, and in the dis,charge of a public duty. Mr. ATKI.NS. Under a decree of a court of record. Mr. ANTHONY. Under the decree of a court of record. I I would ask the gentleman from Clark [A,lr. Schol,ield] if all this money cannot be deposited with a county treasurer just as well as it could be with the State Treasurer? In the courts in mv city, a decree is frequently entered that money shall be deposited in some of our banks. In New York City, there are many mil lions beloi,,giiig to widows and orphans deposited in banks under decrees of the courts. It is not necessary that the State Treas urer should be made custodian of the funds belonging to the widows and or plians. What the committee wished to accomplish here was started by the P_,en tlemat-i fron-1 Coles [Mr Boomwell]-that the State Treasurer should not have in his custody everybody's money, mingled and mixed up with that belonging to the State. I say, Mr. President, that if this is permitted, the State Treasurer can act as the agent of all individuals and associations, aud the funds can be so mingled up with tfit)se of the State, that we will in ten years see a condition of things such as is exhibited nowhere else in this country, leadiug to great confusion and abuses. Mr. HANNA. Mr, Mr. McCOY. Mr. President: Will the geiitici-nan yield a moment to allow me.to propose an amendment? Ali-. HANNA. I have yielded already four or five times, but I have no particular ot)jection, provided' it does not come out of my time. The PRESIDENT. The Chair will slay to the gentleman that if he yields, he will be obliged to direct his remarks to the amendment instead of the main question. Mr. HANNA. Then I think I will not yield. Most of what was said by tbe'gentleman from Clark [Mr. Scliolfield] on this subject, met my views so fully, and was so much in accordance with what I had the ill that has grown out of it? There have been laws in the State requiring the treasury to hold the bonds deposited by banks, and to, if the banks did not pay out their bills, or redeem them, sell those securities, the Treasurer acting as the agent,. and paying the money received therefor over to the benefit of bill-holders. By this provision we put it out of the power of the State Treasurer to act in this capacity, if we are ever called upon to have banks in Illinois again. It is im possible for, any one to tell what number, or what amount of deposits it may benec-. essary to put into the State Treasury. For the purpose of thrusting at, and striking down the law of 1869, which is unpalatable to some gentlemen, we pro posc-, to entirely wipe out the safeguard for the people, under which they have I;-ved without complaint for twenty-five years. I am not in favor of meeting aCtS of the Legislature in this way in a Constitutional Convention. If the principle, that funds should be deposited with the State Treasurer for the security of third parties is right, let them alone in tl-ie Constitution, and if you are opposed to the legislation of 1869, come back in 1871 and repeal it, but do not strike down what is a security to tl-le people of every part of the State, simply because it does not meet the peculiar views of some gentlemen up,.)n this floor. Now, sir, I have no peculiar argument to make in favor of the legislation of 1869. It is not now bc2fore us. When it was in its incipient state I was in favor of it. 1, perhaps, would be in favor of it a-ain. I am not here to day to defend it. .The gentleman from IVIorcian [Mr. At kins] stands upon this floor and pro. nounces that law one of the most abomi nable acts that ever paqsed. I say it was one of the best acts, in my opinion, that ever passed the Legislature of the State of Illinois. He gives his opinion on one side, and I give mine on the other opinion for opinion. Neither amounts to much. It is simply a difference of opin ion between members on that particular question. Gentlemen give us to understand it bankrupts the treasury of the State of Illinois; I deny that it takes a dollar out of the treasury of the State of Illinois, or prevents a dollar from going in; and no gentleman can demonstrate the contrary. It simply.provides that counties may crc. ate an indebtedness for the purpose of building railroads, and shall, thereby, increase their assessments. They may, have the benefit uf the excess, and the presumption being that if they want no railroad, they will have no excess'. It does not keep a dollar out of the treasury of the State, and will not take a dollar out of the treasury. It does not make the State of Illinois liable for one dollar deposited there. Then what great harm is done thereby? The gentleman from Cook [Mr. Anthony] said he had no objection to corporations subscribing for railroads. I would like to see the record of the gentleman when the question was up the other day. I understand he took a different position then. Mr. ANTHONY. If the gentleman will look at my remarks upon the canal Mr. HANNA. I am not talking about the canal. That was for the benefit o 1384 COSTITUTIOXAL CONYFXTIOX WEDNESDAY, body's rights in any securities, issued Uinder the provisions of that act, can be im paired by mere change of the agency for the payment of the bonds, or of the interest thereon. I think that the proposition might pr,-p erly be amended, so as to avoid any inconvenierce that might temporarily occur befbre a change of agents shall be made by the Legislature; and I suggest that this prohibition upon the State Treasurer from acting in any such capacity, might provide that it should not take effect, say, before the first day of July, 1871, which, if this Convention should perform a work that would be acceptable to the people, and the Constitution should be adopted, would enable the next Legislature to prov'de for a change of this agency to which I have alluded, and in the meantime, permit the State Treasurer to discharge the duties devolved upon him by the act of the Legislature. Otherwise, wrong might be done to the holders of the bonds issued under the provisions of this act, in the intermediate time. But with such an amendment, or something that would obviate that inconvenienjce, I can see no possible objection to the adoption of this proposition; while having at heart the future welfare and prosperity of this State, I can conceive of many good reasons why the proposition should be adopted. Mr. President: I venture to say that the time will come, and that before many years, when a persistent and powerful effort will be made, despite of any pro vision that we may now put in the Con stitution, to cause the assumption, by the State of Illinois, of all the debts created in the way authorized by this act of the Lecgislature of 1869, and that, unless we put some such proposition in the Constitution, as has been reported by the Corn mittee on the Executive Department, it will then be said that the State, in her official character, has given sanction to these securities for years, by voluntarily through her State officers, performing the work imposed under this act of the Legislature. It will be said that the State of Illinois has given her sanction and credit indirectly to this whole system, and that it is only right that the holders of these securities, who have purchased them ignorantly, perhaps, under the imd pression that the State was liable for them, should have protection. It is true, Mr. President, as I know personally, that. large amounts of these securities, author ized to be issued under this act of 1869, are now being purchased in many of the New England States, and even abroad, under the impression that the credit of the State of Illinois is, by her Legislatni e, pledged for the payment of those securities. I say, sir, that I know such is the fact. I have had evidence in the last few weeks from quarters that surprised me, because I supposed the fact was known everywhere that there was no State liability. But, Mr. President, while we permit our State Treasurer, in his official capacity, to do the duty devolved upon him in that act, while we permit these bonds to be registered in one of our State departments, and thus clothe them with a seeming official sanction from the State of Illinois, it is not unreasonable that such mistaken impressions should prevail in regard to these securities. [Here the hammer fell]. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION WF,DNESDAY, 1384: Chica o. I am talkin- about railroads g 11 which run all over the State. Mr. ANTHONY. I have stated upon Ciiis floor, twice, and I have -never stated auvtbidg else, but that it would be well to allow every TOWD, City or village in the State, to subscribe as it pleased, f)r the purpose of building railroads, if it would do it by itself. That has been my position always. Mr. HANNA. I am glad the gentleman has got around to that point. Mr. ANTHONY. I never had any other. Mr. HANNA. If this provision is placed in the Constitution, as remarked by the gentleman from Clark [Mr. Scholfield], some other office vau:st be created for the purpose of receiving the bonds. They must be deposited somewhere. It will be necessary, laying aside the legislation of 1869, and this railroad discusSIOD, that some place of public deposit shall be had for funds that accrue by decrees of the courts, as security against these corporations. It will be necessary to have some officer designated who shall hold these funds for the security of the public. I deny that it is safe to allow insurance companies to exist in this State without requiring them first to have some place in which to deposit some of their valuable securities, and secondly, if they do ,3aot pay the losses proved in a court of justice, allowing the )fficer to sell those securities and pay debts contracted by them. I am not saying that the Treasurer is the proper officer. [Here the hammer fell]. Mr. COOLBAUGH.. Mr. President: I desire to say a few words upon this qiiustion. I do not propose to discuss the legality or the propriety of the act of the Legislature of 1869, but I wish to call the attention of the Convention to what I think are some reasons why this proposition should, in some form, be adopted. The main objection that I have to the use that is being made of the State Treasurer at present, is not oiie based upon iny fear of liability, directly or indirectly, on the part of the State for his acts, but my objection to the continuance of this sys tem is founded upon the wrong inferences that are drawn by people abroad from this Bscal agency imposed on the State Trea,,urer. ["Go OD," "go On.,,] Mr. COOLBAUGII. Because I fear that this (,,Mcial action of our State officers will hereafter be insisted upon as a seeming and indirect indorsernent of the bonds, and as a reas(-,n why the State should assume these debts, I favor the proposition. It: is because of the danger I feel on that question that I want to see the matter fixed in some way that will not be ii-nmcdiately injurious to the holders of the bonds, and at the same time protect the State of Illinois against any shadow of a claim upon her. I desire some e prohibition incorporated in the Constitution, which will stop any. use being made of our State officers in any such way. I am sure that all this talk of int(-rferiiig with rights is entirely without foundation as applied to the case Dow before us. There can be no iiijury done any vested rights by the adoption of this proposition. It caii be put in force, and sufficient time given to the Legislature to make the proper chai)ges. The obligation of these towns and counties to pay their obligations is not in any regard to be released or absolved by the adoption of this propositif)n. Then why this talk about "vested rights"? It is nothing but a scarecrow. Mr. President: I regret to have occupied so much time. I have no feelidg at all on this question other than that con,iected with the public good. It is, I think, reasonable to apprehend that the people of the State may yet be called upon to assume these debts, and it is simpiv on account of that, sir, I feel the inteest I do in this question. I I)ope the Convention will do its duty in the prem ises. Mr. HANNA. Mr. President: I will call upon the gentleman to read a part of this section. [Indicatii)g]. Mr. COOLBUGff. Mr. President: I am perfectly familiar with that section, as much so as the gentleman from Wayne ['!,'4r. HaIlDa]. I will undertake to ay, Liotwitlastandiiig the point to which he refers, that there is great dalger to be apprehended, and I fear the gentleman from Wayne [Mr. Hanna] may be found among those who will support the endeavor to make the State assume these debts. Mr GOODHUE. Mr.'President: p APRIL 20, 1870. DEBATES D PROCEEDJGS. 1385 need, they kindly overlook the larceny, and protect him in the possesion of his plunder. In my judgment this is an analagous case, and I do not believe that the people of the State of Illinois are in favor of going to that extent. Mr. President, it does seem to me that there should be no sort of obiection made to this section, at least on the grounds that have been insisted on in this Con vention. In its phraseology, it cannot in te-rfere with vested rights. Have the persons who hold the bonds which have been issued under the law of 1869, vested rights in any of our State officers? have they any vested rights in the State ma chinery for the collection of its money? IHave they vested rights which would be interfered with by withdrawing the as sistance of these officers, or by withhold ing the use of the machinery of the State for the collection of these taxes? i[Here the hammer fell]. Mr. CUMMIINGS. Mr. President: I move the previous question. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the paragraph or section reported by the committee. Mr. McCOY. Mr. President: I desire a division of the question. I think it is susceptible of division at the word "thereon." The PRESIDENT. The Chair re gards the proposition as divisible, ac cording to the suggestion,)f the gentle man from Whiteside [ir. McCoy], and it will be so divided. The question is upon the adoption of the first paragraph. The Secretary read the first paragraph, as follows: He shall not act as the agent, in any capa city, of any county, city, town, township, village, public or private corporation, asso ciation or individual, in paying their debts or the interest thereon. The Secretary proceeded to call the roll. iMr. RICE (when his name was called), said: Mr. President: I ask permission to explain my vote. When this article was under consideration in Committee of the Whole, I voted in favor of it. Subse quently we adopted the twenty-sixth sec tion, which reads as follows: SEC. 26. The officers named in this article shall receive for their services a salary, to be established by law, which shall not be in creased or diminished during their official term. They shall not receive to their own use any fees, costs, perquisites of office, or other compensation. As I understand, that section precludes the Treasurer from receiving the fees and perquisites, for his services in the exercise of this agency, the. objection to its continuance, is to my mind, removed. No motive is left to the Treasurer and AuditC or to cultivate and build up, for the sake of emoluments, private business around their offices. I, therefore, vote "No."o As r. SEDGWICK, (before the result was announced), said: Mr. President: I move a call of the Convention. Mr. ALLEN, of Crawford. Mir. President: The gentleman niay call for the absentees, but cannot move a call of the Convention, after a motion for the previous question has prevailed.: The PRESIDENT. The f~rty-eighth rule of the Convention provides that- T After the motion forthe previous question has prevailed, it shall not be in order to move a call of the Convention, prior to the decision b of the main question. YEAS. Haines of Cook,Poage, Hart, Sedgwick, Harwood, Sherrill, Hayes, Springer, Hildrup, Sutherland, McCoy, Tubbs, Medill, Wagner, Parker, Wells, Perley, Wheaton-29. ~ Peirce, Abbott Allen of Crfd. Anderson, Archer, Benjamin, Bowman, Browning, Cody, Craig, Cummings, Ellis, English, tleman tha t we have inserted clause aft er clause in our Constitution in clear and direct violation of some of the statutes of this State. Evils against which we seek to pro vide have been pointed out. The gentle man from Cook [Mr. Anthony] has called the attention of this Convention to one that may be reasonably anticipated-that the bonds issued under the statutes of 1869 are upon such poor paper that they may be easily forged, and if forged, un doubtedly a great responsibility and con seque-nt loss will be thrown upon the State of Illinois, unless some protection is provided. But, sir, what are local interests as against the interests of the State of Illi nois? The interests of individuals and corporations in this and other States are, considered by gentlemen, but I am for sustaining the interests of this State against the interests of local and pri vate corporations here and elsewhere. It is asserted that by this clause we are striking down vested rights. I think gentlemen can hardly be sincere in that assertion. They know the adoption of this clause will not strike down vested rights. Then why do they insist upon excluding this section, on the ground that it does? If they are right in claiming that rights are vested, this cannot interfere with them in the least, but it may have the effect to protect the rights and interests of the people of Illinois for all time to come. According to this theory, it will not eradicate the evil in existence already, but it will say to that evil, "Thus far shalt thou go, and no farther." I apprehend that these gentlemen do not sincerely believe that it strikes down vested rights. Even if in its phraseology it was calculated to do so, it can never have that effect. Now, then, what is the real position of the argument upon the other side? What is the real position assumed by gentlemen in relation to this matter? It seems to me that we shall be driven to the conclusion that they are in favor of the law of 1869, that they are in favor of perpetuating the evils which have already sprung up under this law, and inviting other counties all over the State to go on in the same direction. What other conclusion can we draw from their remarks? If this statute cannot strike down vestqd rights, and if rights have vested, it can only have an effect so far as the future is concerned. The next conclusion to be drawn is in nay j udgment irresistible, that they championl the law itself, while asserting and repeating that they do not support the law. Again and again gentlemen have arisen in their places in this Convention, and have admitted that it was an abomwination. They have admitted that they were originally opposed to this law, and that it never ought to have been enacted. And now, forsooth, because it may, as they assert, strike downa some of their rights simply by its phraseology, they propose to prevent us in this Constitutional Convention from protecting the State, not against its old enemies, but against a troop of new ones. Those gentlemen admit that the law is wronug. They are substantially in the position of one defending, (not stealing, and I refer to that simply as an illustration)> the thief who has got the property in his hands, because he may be poor, because his family may be in very greats ABSBENT OR NOT VOTING. Allen, of Alex Gamble, Ross, Bayne, Goodell, Skinner, Billings, Haines of LakeTincher, Brown, McDowell, Truesdale, Bryan, Merriam, Turner, Buxton, Pillsbury, Whiting, Dement, Robinson, Mr. President-21. So the motion to adopt the first paragraph was not agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the adoption of the second paragraph. The Secretary read the second paragraph, as follows: And no moneys belonging to any county, city, town, township, village, or public or private corporation, association or individual, shall ever be deposited with him for safe keeping, or to be paid out by him for them. He may be required by the Governor to give additional security, and in default of so doing his office shall be deemed vacant. The yeas and nays were ordered, and, being taken, resulted-yeas, 26, nays, 37' -as follows: Abbott, Fox, Allen of Cr'fd.,Fuller, Anderson, Hankins, Archer, Hanna, Benjamin, Hay, Bowman, Hlaves, Browning, King, Cody, McCoy, Craig, Moore, Cummings, Neece, Ellis, Parker, English, Parks, Forman, I AP.RIL 20, 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1385 The result was then announced-yeag 29, in -ays 34-as follows. Anthony, Atkins, Bromwell, Canicron, Cary, Church, Coolbaugh, Cross, EldredZe, Goodhue, WAYS. Forman, Fox, Fiiller, Hankins, Hanna, Hay, - Kinz. Mie, Neece, Parks, Rice, Beholfield, Sharp, - Snyder, Underwood, Vandeventer, I Wait, Wall, Washbrn, Wendling, Wilson, Wright-34. YEAS. Goodhue Sedgwick, Haines ol C'ok,Sherrill, Hart, Springer, Harwood, Sutherland, Hildrup, Tubbs, Medill, Wagner Perley, wells, Peirce, Wheton-26. Poage, NAYS. Anthony,, Atkins, Bromwell, Cameron, Cary, Church, Coolbaugh, . Cross, Eldredge, Rice, I Scholfield, Sharp, Snyder, Underwood, Vandeventer, W-iii", IWashburn, Wendling, wilsod, Wrighf-37. .&13SENT, OR NOT VOTIXG. Alleu of Alex-Gamble, Ross, Bayne, Goodell' Skinner, Bitlings, Ifaines of Llke,Tincher, Brown, McDowell, Truesdale, Bryan, Merriam, Turner, Buxton Pillsbury, WhitinT. Dement', Robinson, Mr. Presidat-21. So the motion to adopt the second paragraph was not a-reed to. The PRESIDENT. The question "Ls On the twenty-third section. Mr. WHEATON. I desire to offer. an amendment to the twenty-second section. f 1386 COSTITUTIOAL COYETiOX EDSDAY, The Secretary read section twenty-four, as amended, as follows: SEc. 24. An account shall be kept by the officers of the executive department, and of all the public institutions of the State, cf all moneys received or disbursed by them, severally, for every service performed, and from all sources, and a semi-annual report thereof be made to the Governor, under oath; and any officer who makes a false report shall be guilty of perjury, and punished accordingly. The PRESIDENT. It will be declared adopted. The question is upon the twenty-fifth section. The Secretary will read the section. The Secretary read section twenty-five, as follows: SEC. 25. There shall be a seal of the State, which shall be called the "Great Seal of the State of Illinois," which shall be kept by the Secretary of State, and used by him, officially, under the direction of the Governor. Mr. HANNA. Mr. President: 1 would ask the chairman of the committee whether the seal is understood here to be applied under tho direction of. the Governor, or by law? Mr. ANTHONY. Mr. President: That is now regulated by statute. The Secretary attaches the seal only to documents signed by the Governor when they are to go out, as acts of State. Mr. HANNA. Mr. President: Should not that be regulated by law? I shall not make a motion, but I think that would be better. Mr. HAINES, of Cook. Mr. President: I will make the motion. I think this is dangerous. The Governor might direct the Secretary to attach the seal when he pleases. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the amendment. It is proposed to strike out from the third line the word ' "Governor" and insert the word "law." The question being on the amendment offered by Mr. Haines, of Cook, a division was ordered. The Convention divided, when, there being twenty-eight in the affirmative, the amendment N as agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the adoption of the section, as amended. It will be declared adopted. The question is upon the twenty sixth section. The Secretary will read the section. The Secretary read section twenty-six, as follows: his amendment to writing for the Secretary? The section as amended is declared adopted. The question is upon the twenty-seventh section. The Secretary will read the section. The Secretary read section twentyseven, as follows: SEC. 27. All fees that may hereafter bemade payable by law for any services performed by any officer provided for in this article of the Constitution, shall be paid, in advance, into the State treasury. The PRESIDENT. It will be declared adopted. The question is on section twenty-eight. The Secretary will read the section. The Secretary read section t;wentyeight, as follows: SEC. 28. The Governor, Lieutenant Governor and other civil officers of this State shall be liable to impeachment for any misdemeanor in office; but judgment in such cases shall not extend further than removal from office and disqualification to hold any office of honor, profit or trust in this State. The party, whether convicted or acquitted, shall nevertheless, be liable to indictment, trial, judgment and punishment, according to law. Mr. coDY. Mr. President: I move to strike out that section. The same section occurs in the legislative article. Mr. ANTHONY. Mr. President: I suppose it would be competent for the Committee on Revision and Adjustment to put it in either article. The question being on the motion of Mr. Cody to strike out, it was agreed to. Mr. WHEATON. Mr. President: I offer an additional section. The Secretary read thu additional section, offered by Mr. Wheaton, as follows: SEC. 28. The Treasurer shall not, after the first day of July, A. D. 1871, act as the agent, in any capacity, of any county, city, town, township, village, public or private corporation, association or individual, in paying their debts or the interest the.eon. Mr. WHEATON. Mr. President: I move the previous question. Mr. SHARP. Mr. President: I move to lay that proposed section on the table. The yeas and nays were ordered, and, being taken, resulted-yeas 34, nays 29as follows: The PRESIDENT. The section h as been declared adopted. Mr. WHEATON. What we have acted upon was, I understand, a part of it. I desire to add an amendment to section twenty-two, in lieu of the one voted down. The PRESIDENT. If the gentleman will read his proposition the Chair will be better able to suggest what is best to be done. Mr. WHEATON. I propose to add to section twenty-two the fbllowing words: The Treasurer shall not, after the first day of July, A. D. 1871, act as the agent in any capacity, of any county, city, town, township, village, public or private corporation, association or individual, in paying their debts or the interest thereon. The PRESIDENT. The twenty-second section, reported by the Committee of the Whole, has been adopted, and the gentieman can accomplish his object by moving an independent section, which, if the Committee on Revision and Adjustment see fit, they can connect with this question. It can be offered at the close of the article. Mr. SPRINGER. I did not understand the twenty-second section was adopted. I desire to offer an amendment, but I do not care about moving a reconsideration, if I can avoid it, and accomplish my purpose. /yamendment is to strike out all after "qualified," in the second line, to "elect," in the third line. We have stricken out isection four of the report, thereby making all the other State officers eligible to reelection, and the reason for removing the restriction applies as well to the office of treasurer, as any other. The PRESIDENT. The minutes of -the Secretary show that the section has been adopted. The object of the gentleman can only be accomplished by reconsidering. Mr. 8PRINGER. I move we reconsider it. Mr. SHARP. I would like to know how the gentleman voted. The PRESIDENT. There was no division on the question. Mr. WASHBURN. I move to lay the motion'on the table. Mr. SPRINGER. I wish to give some reasons The PRESIDENT. On the motion to lay on the table, no suggestLons can be heard unless by general consent. The motion of Mr. Washburn to lay on the table the motion of SVir. Springer, to reconsider the vote adopting section twenty-two, was agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is on the twenty-third section. The Secretary read section twentythree, as follows: SEC. 23. The duties of the Auditor, Treasurer, Secretalw of State, Attorney General, and Superintendent of Public Instruction shall be prescribed by law. If the office of either of said officers shall be vacated by death, resignation or otherwise, it shall be the -duty of the Governor to appoint another, who shall hold his office until his successor shall be elected and qualified in such manner as may be provided by law. The PRESIDENT. Are there any amendments? It will be declared adopted. The question is upon the tw~enty-fourth section. * The Secretary will read the section as amenclod in Committee of thae Whole._ YEAcS. Abbott, Forman, Allen of Cr'fd.,Fox, Anderson, Fuller, Archer, Hankins, Benjamin, Hanna, Bowman, Hay, Browning, King, Cody, Moore, Craig, Neece, Cummings, Parks, Ellis, Perley, English, SEC. 26. The officers named in this article shall receive for their services a salary to be established by law, which shall not be increased or diminished during their official term. They shall not receive to their own use any fees, costs, perquisites of office, or other compensation. Mr. HAY. Mr. President: I move to amend the latter part of the section to make it conform to the principle we have adopted heretofore, in respect to the fees of officers. The amendment I move is to go in after the word "not" in the third line. They shall not "after the expiration of the terms of the present incumbent, after the adoption of this Constitution," receive any compensation. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the amendment proposed by the gentleman from Sangamon [Mr. Hay]. The amendment offered by Mr. iay was agreed to. The PRESIDENT. Will the gentleman from Sangamon [Mr. Hay] reduce D BSENT OR NOT VOTING. Allen of Alex,Goodhue, Skinner, Bayne, Haines of L'k, Tincher, Billings, McDowell, Truesdale, Brown, Merriam, Turner. Bryan, Pillsbury, Welli Buxton, ob Whiting Dement, Ross, Mr. President-21 1386 CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION WED,,NESDAY, Rice, Scholfield, Sharp, Snyder, I Under*ood, Vandeventer,, vvall, Wasfiburn, Wendling, Wilson. Wrighf-34. NAYS. Goodell I Haines'of Clk, Hart, Harwood, Hayes, I-lifdrp. ivieco -, -v, Medill,' Parker, Peirce, Anthony, Atkins, Bromwell, ,Cameron, Cary, Church, Coolbaugh, Cross, Eldredge, Gamble, Poaze. ISed,-, wick. Sherrill, Springer Sutherlad, Tubbs. Wagnr, Wait, Wh.t..-29. APRIL 20, 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 138w~~~ And no other oath, declaration or test,shall be required as a qualification. The same oath is in the Constitution of New York, and of several other States. I would move the adoption of the section. Mr. ALLEN, of Crawford. Mr. President: I move to strike out of that additional section the words, "General Assem. bly," so as to preserve the form of oath prescribed by the legislative article to the members of the General Assembly. I have no objection to the section s o far as it appliesto other officers of the State; but to members of the General Assembly that oath is peculiarly appropriate. The yeas and nays were ordered, and, being taken, resulted-yeas 32, nays 31as follows: So the motion of Mr. Sharp to lay on t he t able the additional sec tion offered b y Mr, Wh eaton, was agreed to. Mr. HAY. Mr. President: I wish to move a reco nsideration of section twenty seven, to make it conform to the amend ment provided fo r in section twe nty-six. I will read the two sections as they are: SEC6.26. Th e officers named in this article shall receive f or t heir services a salary, to be established by law, which shall not be in creased or diminished during their official term. They shall not, after the expiration of the term s of offic e of the present incumbents, after the adoption of this Constitution, re c eive t o their own use any fees, costs, perquisites of office, or other compensation. SEC. 27. All fees that may hereafter be made payable by law for any services performed by an officer provided for in this article of the Constitution, shall be paid, in advance, into the State treasury. I wish to amend so that it will read: SEC. 27. And all fees that may thereafter be payable by law for any services performed by any officer provided for in this article of the Constitution, shall be paid, in advance, into the State treasury. The motion of Mr. Hay, to reconsider the vote adopting section twenty-seven, was agreed to. The question being on the amendment offered by Mr. Hay, that the word "hereafter," in the twenty-seventh section, be changed to "thereafter," and the word "and" precede that section, and that it be attached to section twenty-six, the amend ment was agreed to. Mr. SEDGWICK. Mr. President: I move to reconsider section twenty, in order to strike out in the second line the word "seventeen," and insert the word "eighteen." It was not done, I think, although the gentleman from Iroquois [Mr. Goodell] proposed it. The PRESIDENT. The gentleman from DeKalb [Mr. Sedgwick] is correct. No action was taken, though a suggestion was made. The question is upon the motion of the gentleman from DeKalb [iMlr. Sedgwick.] Mr. MEDILL. Mr. President: I would ask the gentleman if he would not accept as an amendment, the word "preceding," so that it would read-"for any of the cases specified in Lthe preceding section." The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the motion to reconsider section twenty. The m~otion was agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the motion of the gentleman from IDeKalb [M~r. Sedgwick] to strike out "seventeen" from the second line of section twenty, and insert "4eighteen."' The motion was agreed to. Mr. ANTHONY. Mr. President: On the 10th of March, the Executive Committee reported to the Convention a separate section, with regard to the oath, to be made a separate article. I do not know whether the Clerk has it or not. I sent to the Doorkeeper this morning for copies of it, and he could not find any. I will read it: YEAS. Abbott, lHaines of CookPoage, Allen of Crf'd.,Hanna, Rice, Benjamin, Hart, Sherrill, Browning, Harwood, Snyder, Cameron, Hay, Springer, Coolbaugh, Hayes, Tubbs, Cross, Medill, Underwood, Eldredge, Moore, Wagner, Ellis, Parks, Wait, Fuller, Perley, Wendling -32. Gamble, Peirce, A n derson, Anthony, Archer, Atkins, Bowman, Cary, Church, Cody, Craig, Cummings, English, Abbott, Forman, Rice, Anderson, Fox, Scholfield, Archer, Haines of CookTincher, Bowman, Hay, Vandeven ter, Craig, Hayes, Washburn, Cummings, McCoy, Wendling, Ellis, Moore, Wilson,-23. English, Neece, NAYS. Allen of Crwfd, Gamble, Sedgwick, Anthony, Goodell, Sharp, Atkins, Hanna, Sherrill, Benjamin, Hart, Snyder, Browning, Harwood, Springer, Cameron, Hildrup, Sutherland, Cary, King, Tubbs, Church, Medill, Underwood, Cody, Parker, Wagner, Coolbaugh, Parks, Wait, Cross, Perley, Wall, Eldredge, Peirce, Wheaton, Fuller, Poaze. Wright-39. ABSENT, OR NOT VOTING. Allen of Alex.,Dement, Ross, Bayne, Goodhue, Skinner, Billings, Haines of LakeTruesdale, Bromwell, McDowell, Turner, Brown, Merriam, Wells, Bryan, Pillsbury, Whiting, Buxton, Robinson, Mr. President-21. So the motion of Mr. Allen, of Crawford, to strike out "General Assembly," was agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the adoption of the twenty- eighth section, as amended. Section twenty-eight, as amended, was agreed to. Mr. ANTHONY. Mr. President: I now move that this article be referred to the Committee on Revision and Adjustment. Mr. WASHBURN. Mr. President: If the gentleman will withdraw that motion for a moment, I wish to call attention to the fourth line of section thirteen, which is, "and whose appointment or election is not otherwise provided for." I apprehend that will mean a little different from what we intend. If it were left as it is, the people would not desire the Governor to have the appoint. ment of officers. I believe that will give him the appointment of every officer. Mr. ANTHONY. I decline to withdraw my motion. Mr. SNYDER. Mr. President: I wish to suggest a verbal correction for the sake of grammuer. It is in the fourth line of section twenty-three, which is: "It shall be the duty of the Governor to appoint another," which would mean "another office." I propose to remedy that by striking out the words "another office," ARTICLE —. SECTION 1. Members of the General Assembly, and all officers, executive and judicial,except such inferior officers as may be by law exempted, shall, before they enter on the duties of their respective offices, take and subscribe the following oath or affirmation: "I do solemnly swear (or affirm, as the case may be) that I will support the Constitution of the United States, and the Constitution of the State of Illinois, and that I will faithfully discharge the duties of the office of - according to the best of my ability;' I So the motion of Mr. Moore to reconsider section one, was not agreed to. Mr. ANTHONY. Mr. President: I now move that the article be referred to the Committee on Revision and Adjustment. The motion was agreed to. [The following is the article as referred to the Committee on Revision and Adj ustmnent:] ARTICLE IV. EXECUTIVE DEPARTMENT. SECTION 1. The Executive Department shall consist of a Governor, Lieutenant Governor, Secretary of State, Auditor of Public Accounts, Treasurer, Superintendent of Public Instruction, and Attorney General, who shall be chosen by the electors of the State at the places and in the manner of voting for members of the General Assembly, and shall, with the exception of the Treasurer, each hold his office for the term of four years from the sfcond Monday of January, next after his etec I I t c F APRIL'-'O, 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1387 and inserting the words, "fill the same by appointment, and said appointee." Mr. ANTHONY. I would say to the gentleman that the Committee on Re. vision and Adjustment are the comniittee on pb rascology and grammar. Mr. SNYDER. They will have too big a job on their hands to attend to the phra. seology of th.'s Constitution. Mr. ANTHONY. I cannot now enter into a parsing discussion Mr. SNYDER. It is a question more important than parsing. I move to strike out "appoint another," and "who," in the fourth line, and insert in lieu thereof the words "fill the same byappointment, and said appointee." The amendment off-ered by Mr. Snyder was a-greed to. Mr. MOORE. I move to reconsider section one. I wa-nt to have stricken out superintendent of public schools, and attorney general." If made constitutional officers,, the Legislature should control them. IMr. ANTHONY. We have been all over this in Committee of the Whole, and I shall insist upon my motion. The PRESIDENT. The question is upo,,,i the motion of the gentleman from DeWitt [?tlr. Aloore]. The yeas and navs were ordered, and being taken, resulted-yeas, 23; nays, 39 -as follows: NA.YS. Forman, Fox, Goodell, Hankins, Hildrup, KinZ, ld, Sedgwick, Sharp, Sutherland, Tinclier Vandev'enter, Wall, Washburn, Wheaton, Wilson, Wright-31. YEAS. ABSENT, OR NOT VOTING. Allen of Alex.,Goodhue, Ross, Bromwell, Haines oflake, Skinner,' Brown, Hankins, Truesdale, Bayne, McDowell,., Tiirner. Buxton, Merriam, Wells, Bryan, Pillsbury, Whit!nZ, Billings Robinson, Mr. Prosidt-22. Dement, 138C-TT(TOA G~ETO HRDY the State (except when they shall be called into the service of the United States): and may call out the same to execute the laws,suppress insurrection, and repel invasion. SEC. 13. The Governor shall nominate and, by and with the advice and consent of the Senate, (a majority of all the Senators elected concurring, by yeas and nays) appoint all officers whose offices are established by this Constitution or which may be created by law, and whose appointment or election is not otherwise provided for; and no such officers shall be appointed or elected by the General Assembly. An office is a public position,created by the Constitution or law, continuing during the pleasure of the appointing power, or for a fixed time, with a successor elected or appointed. An employment is an agency for a temporary purpose, which ceases when that purpose is accomplished. SEc. 14. The Governor shall have power to remove any officer whom he may appoint, in case of incompetency, neglect of duty or malfeasance in office; and he may declare his office vacant, and fill the same as is herein provided in other cases of vacancy. SEC. 15. In case of a vacancy, during the recess of the Senate, in any office which is not elective, the Governor shall make a temporary appointment until the next meeting of the Senate, when he shall nominate some person to fill such office; and any person so nominated, who is confirmed by the Senate (a majority of all the Senators elected concurring by yeas and nays), shall hold his office during the remainder of the term, and until hisp successor shall be appointed and qualified. SEC. 16. iNo person after being rejected by the Senate, shall be again nominated for the same office at the same session, unless at the request of the Senate, or be appointed to the same office during the recess of the General Assembly. SEC. 17. The Governor shall have power to grant reprieves, commutations and pardons, after conviction, for all offenses, subject to such regulations as may be provided by law, relative to the manner of applying for such reprieve, commutation or pardon. SEC. 18. In case of the death, conviction on impeachment, failure to qualify, resignation, absence from the State, or other disability of the Governor, the powers, duties and emoluments of the office for the residue of the term, or until the disability shall be removed, shall devolve upon the Lieutenant Governor. SEC. 19. The Lieutenant Governor shall be President of the Senate, and shall vote only when the Senate is equally divided. Ttie Senate shall choose a President, pro tempore, to preside in case of the absence or impeachment of the Lieutenant Governor, or when he shall hold the office of Governor. SEC. 20. If there be no Lieutenant Governor, or if the Lieutenant Governor shall, for any of the causes specified in section eighteen, become incapable of performing the duties of the office, the President of the Senate shall act as Governor until the vacancy is filled or the disability removed;- and if the SEC.9. Te ofices ofthe xecuivePresident of the Senate, for any of the above lios o te Sat, sal, a lesttendas po-forming the duties of Governor, the same EET-ITI A. whoshal tansit uchreprtsto he ene — SEc. 21. Every bill passed by the GeneralTUsA,Api21180 at ssebly toethr iththereprtsof heAssembly shall, before it becomes a law, be TeCneto e tnn'lc,A judesof hesurem cur, o dfets n hepresented to the Governor. If he ap-.anwacaldtorebytePei Contittio an las; nd he ovenormayprove he shall sign it, and thereupon itdet at ny imereqir inormtio, n witig, n-shall become a law; but if he do not approve RY. depatmet an al oficer an manger ofhouse in which it shall have originated, which Pae a fee yteRv r ae to te cndiion maagemnt nd xpesesits journal, and proceed to reconsider saidofprnfedasflos of thei respetive ofices.bill. If, then, two-thirds of the members FahriHevninwo welvan Sr~c 10 Th Goernr ma, o exraodi-elected agree to pass the same, it shall bemoeadhvouben,wpryTerel naryoccsios, cnvee te Geera Asem-sent, together with the objections, to theizThprsnetusawebwhrinti bly byprolamtio, satig teren te pr- thethose,byohicsi,shllyikeisebehe-iall anhfillu wihkscreireoicng hatth posefor hic the areconened andtheconsidered; and if approved by two-thirds ofLodGdOnpenregeh Geneal ssebly hal ener uon o bst-the members elected to that house, it shall W hn he ecflFte,ta u nessexet tat fr wichtheywer caledbecome a law, notwithstanding the objectionsliearsprdwisohesretknfo together. ~~~~~~~~of the Governoir. But in all s-tch cases the vote u.W hn hefrTykn aeoe b~c.ii.In ase f adisgreeentbeteenof each house shall be determtned by yeas andusaohrngtfothlihanblsig the wo ouss wih rspet tothetim ofnays, to be entered on the journal. Any bill o hsmrig o h rvlg fasm adjornmnt,the ovenormay,on he amewhich shall not be returned by the Governor hn tterdiywr h ebr fti bein cetifed o hm bythehoue frstwithin ten days (Sundays excepted) after itboy Math prtogrcbewtthm movig te ajourmen, ajour 4h Geer-shall have been presented to him, shall be- Myhslgtsieuo hi aha.B al Asemly o sch ime s h thnksproer:come a law in like manner as if he had signed To hi iei l h oko hsdy Provded it e nt byondthefirs da ofit, unless the General Assembly shall, by theirBrnthmwepaThetosccocn the next reglar session.adjournment, prevent its return; in which su swl epesn nTySgtadhn Sxc. 2. Th Govrnor hallbe coman-case the said bill shall be filed, with his objec-etcafothhihsineetofteeol der~~~n-ehief of ~~~thmiiayanaafocso ions, in the office of the Secretary of State, o hsSae tion, and until his successor is elected and qualified. They shall, with the exception of the Lieutenant Governor, reside at the seat of government during their term of office, and keep the public record s, books and pa pers there, and shall perform such duties as may be prescribed bv law. SEC. 2. An elect ion f or G overnor, Lieutenant Governor, SecreStary of State, Auditor of Public Acco unts, and A ttorney General, shall be held on the Tuesday next after the first Monday of November, A.D. 1872, and every four vears thereafter; for Superintendent of Public Instruction on the Tuesday next after the first Monday of November, A. D. 1870,and every four years thereafter; and for Treasurer, on the Tuesday next after the first iVIonday of November, A. D. 1870, and every two years thereafter, at such places and in such manner as may be prescribed by law. SEC. 3. The returns of every election for the above named officers shall be sealed up and transmitted, by the returning officers, to the Secretary of State, directed to "The Speaker of the House of Representatives," who shall immediately after the organization of the house, and before proceeding to other business, open and publish the same in the presence of a majority of each house of the General Assembly, who shall, for that purpose, assemble in the hall of the house of Representatives. The person having the highest number of votes for either of said offices shall be declared duly elected; but if two or more have an equal and the highest number of votes, the General Assembly shall, by joint ballot, choose one of such persons for said office. SEC. 4. The Governor, Lieutenant Governor, Auditor, Secretary of State, Superintendent of Public Instruction, or Attorney General, shall not be eligible to any other office during the period for which he shall have been elected. SEC. 5. Contested elections for all of said offices shall be determined by both houses of the General Assembly, by joint ballot, in such manner a- may be prescribed by law. SEc. 6. No person shall be eligible to the office of Governor or Lieutenant Governor who shall not have attained the age of thirty years and been, for five years next preceding his election, a citizen of the United States and of this State. SEC. 7. The supreme executive power shall be vested in the Governor, who shall take care that the laws be faithfully executed. SEC. 8. The Governor shall, at the commencement of each session, and at the close of his term of office, give to the General Assembly information, by message, of the condition of the State, and shall recommend such measures as he shall deem expedient. He shall account to the General Assembly, and shall accompany his message with a statement of all moneys received and paid out by him from any funds subject to his order, with vouchers, and shall, at the commencement of each regular session, present estimates of the amount of money required to be raised by taxation for all purposes. SEC. 9. The officers of the executive department, and of all the the public institultions of the State, shall, at least ten days preceding each regular session of the General Assemnbly, severally report to the Governor, who shall transmit such reports to the General Assembly, together with the reports of the judges of the supreme court, of defects in the Constitution and laws, and the Governor may at any time require informnation, in writing, under oath, frotm the officers in the executive department and all officers and managers of State institutions, upon any subject relating to the condition, management and expenses of their respective offices.. Sr, c. 10. The Governor may, on extraordinary occasions, convene the General Assembly, by proclamation, stating therein the purpose for which they are convened; and the General Assembly shall enter ulpon no business exept that for which they were called together. ;:Ec. 11. In case of a disagreement between the two houses with respect to the time of adjournment, the Governor may, on the same being certified to him by the house first moving the adjournment, adjourn-the General Assembly to such time as he thinks propers _Provided, it be not beyond the first day of the nest regular session. SEC. 12. The Governors shall be commander-in-thief of the military aff/ naval forces of CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION 1388 TH-URSDA-Y, within ten days after such adjournment, or become a law. SEC. 22. The Treasurer shall hold his office for the term of two years, and until his successor is elected and qualified, and shall be in. eligible to said office for two years next after the end of the term for which he was elected. He may be required by the Governor to give reasonable additional security, and in default of so doing his offlce shall be deemed vacant. SEC. 23.- The duties of the Auditor, Treas-urer, Secretary of State, Attorney General and Superintendent of Public Instruction shall be prescribed by law. If the office of either of said officers shall be vacated by death, resignation or otherwise, it shall be the duty of the Governor to fill the same bv appointment, and said appointee shall holil his office until his successor shall be elected and qualified in such manner as may be provided by law. SEC. 24. An account shall be kept by the oflicers of the Executive Department, and of all the public institutions of the State, of all moneys received or disbursed by them, severally, for every service performed, and from all sources, and a semi-annual report thereof be made to the Governor, under oath; and any officer who makes a false report shall be guilty of perjury, and punished accordingly. SEC. 25.'.L'here shall be -- seal of the State, which shall be called the "Great Seal of the State of Illinois," which shall be kept by the Secretary of State, and used by him, offleial. ly, under the direction of the law. SEC. 26. The officers ina!ned in this arti%le shall receive for their services a salary, to e established by law, which shall not be increased or diminished during their official term. They shall not after the expiration of the terms of the incumbents in office at the adoption of this Constitution, receive to their own use any fees, costs, perquisites of office, or other compensation. And all fees that may thereafter be payable by law for any F4ervices performed by RDY Officer provided for in this articleof the Constitution, shall be paid, in advance, into the State treasury. SEC. 27. All officers, executive and judicial, except such inferior officers as may be by law exempteq, shall, before they enter on the duties of their respective offices, take and subscribe the following oath or affirmation: "I do solemnly swear (or affirm, as the case may be), that I will support the Constitution of the United States, and the Constitution of the State of Illinois, and that I will faith. fully discharge the duties of the office of according to the best of my ability. And no other oath, declaration or test, shall be required as a qualification. ADJOURNMENT. Mr. FORMAN. Mr. President: I move that the Convention do now adjourn. The motion was agreed to. So the Convention (at six o'clock) adjourned. - -- i i SEVENTY-SIXTIT DAY. T]AURSDAY, April 21,1870. The Convention met" at uine o'clock, A. .,&., and was called to order by the Pre'Sident. PRAYER. prayer was offered by the Rev. Mr. Hale, of Springfield, as follows: Father in Heaven, in whom we live and move and have our bein,-, we pray Thee realize Thy presence to us as we bow here in this hall, and 1111 us:with sacred rejOiCiDg that the Lord God Omnipotent reigneth. We thank Thee, merciful Father, that our lives are spared whilst others are taken from us. We thank Thee for Thy kind care over us another night, for the light and blessings of this morning, for the privilege of asspmbling at their daily work the members of this body. May the spirit of grace be with them. ,Nlay his light shine upon their pathway. Be Thou their life in all the work of this day. Bring them, we pray Thee, to such conclusions as will be pleasing in Thv si lit and beneficial for the highest interests 0 the people of this State. p APRIL 21, 1870. DEBATES AIND [)ROCEEDINGS.' 1389 The PRESIDENT. The question is upo n the adoption of the resolution. T he r esolu tion off ered by Mr. Moore L was agreed to. SUPERINTENDENT OF PUBLI C iNSTRUC MrX S I TIOanN. Mr. SPRINGER. Mr. President: This is a matter with which I apprehend the people of the State are particularly con cerned. It relates to the acts of a public officer, on which they have a right to all the information we can give them. While I do not believe it is the intention of the gentleman from DeWitt [Yr. Moore] to misrepresent the Superintendent of Pub lic Instruction-to place him in any man ner in a false light before the people-I yet apprehend that, in the present condi tion of this matter, the Superintendent of Public Instruction is very liable to misrepresentation, or, at least, to be mis understood by the people of the State. We have placed upon the records of this Conventlon some very serious implied charges against him. Mr. DEMENT. I rise to a question of order. What is the question before the Convention? The PRESIDENT. The Chair put the ' question, and announced its decision. Mr. SPRINGER. I am going to offer a resolution. As a matter of justice to the Superintendent of Public Instruction, I desire to ask that the card referred to by the gentleman from DeWitt [Mlr. Moorel may be read and spread upon our records, in connection with the charges that have been made against him. The people then will have both sides of the case before them, and he will have a fair chance to defend himself Mr. MOORE. Mr. President: I should be pleased to have the motion -adopted. I do not wish to misrepresent. I am not here for that purpose, and I would love to have the defense go upon the record. Mr. CARY. Mr. President: There has seemed to be, on numerous occasions since we met, a disposition to attack and follow up the Superintendent of Public Instruction. There have been a great many resolutions of inquiry adopted here, and it seems to me the Superintendent his answered them satisfactorily. If these resolutions are adopted and sent to Bloomington and other parts of the State, I would like to have one addressed to the Superintendent himself, that he may have a chance to answer. ThV looks a little like persecution. ~.. I move that this resolution also be addressed to the Superintendent of Public Instruction as well as to the treasurers of these institutions. The PRESIDENT. There is a question pendin,: upon the motion of the gentleman from Madison [Mr. Springer], that the card of the Superintendent be read and spread upon the records. Mr. TINCHER. Mr. President: Some remarks by the gentleman frons JoDaviess [Mr. Cary], would indicate that his minid'Usimpressed with the idea that somebody is seeking to do the Superintendent of Public Instruction an ins justice. As the Superintendent, in his defense, used my name in connections with some remarks that I made, I feel it my duty to put myself right upon the record, as to my intentions. i brought no charges against the Superintendent of Public Instruction. I simply alluded to a programme by which he, the Superintendent, meaning any lpne article itself. I merely wish to say a few words in explanation. Three sections of the article submitted have already been in substance passed upon by this Convention; but as they relate to subjects referred to the Committee on Education, and are subjects which properly belong to the article on education, it was thought that including them now in this article would save the Committee on Revision and Adjustment some little unnecessary trouble. There are some subjects, sir, which were referred to this committee, upon which I am not instructed to make any report at all. It was believed by the committee that the further consideration of them would only tend to prolong the session of this Convention, without leadihe,g to any good result. I move, sir, that two hundred copies of this report be printed for the usef tof the Convention, and that it be made the special order for Monday next, at half past nine o'clock. The motion was agreed to. Bless those that are in authority in every position in this State, Thv servant, the Governor of this State, all who are associated with him in executive authority, our judges and counselors, and all to whom power in this State is committed. May they be guided of God; may the laws be upheld; may righteousness run down our streets as a river, and salvation as an overflowing stream. Be Thou our God as Thou wast the God of our fathers in the days of their early struggle; and let light and wisdom be imparted to all in authority throughout the land. Let the Kingdom of the Lord come with power and with might and with great dominion over all hearts and lives, throughout all interests and relations of men in this nation. Hear us, Lord, and accept and forgive us for Jesus' salie. Amen. READING OF THE JOURNAL. The Secretary proceeded to read the journal of the laat day's proceedings, when Mr. GOODELL. Mr. President: I move that the further reading of the journal 'be dispensed with. The motion was agreed to. REPORTS OF STANDING COMMITTEES. The PRESIDENT. Reports of standing committees are now in order. ARTICLE ON EDUCATION. Mr. PARKS. Mr. President: I am directed aby the Committee on Education to submit to the Convention the following article as their report. The Secretary read the report, as follows: QUESTION OF PRIVILEGE. Mr. MOORE. Mr. Presidernt: I rise to a question of privilege. In the Daily State Journal of Monday and Register of Wednesday, in a card signed by Newton Bateman, and directed to this Convention, he, in referring to some statistical remarks of mine, says: "The average compensation of county superintendents for 1869 was not $1,924, but $924, as my original report on file among the papers of the Convention will show." I do not desire to do injustice to Mr. Bateman; and will say that I obtained all my figures from his former reports, and his report to this Convention, as they were printed. I did not see or read his ma nuscripts. I have, since reading this card again, referred to the printed report made to this Convention, and find the sum there printed $1,924, just as I stated it. But, from his statement, I must conclude that the same was a misprint. Much as I regret the length of time he has permitted to elapse before correcting this misprinted statement almost two months —and much as I regret his inability to contradict any other statement of figures that I gave, I still wish to do him full justice, and would not, under any circum itances, misrepresent him; and for the purpose of giving him a complete vindication, I ask this Convention to pass the following resolutions: Resolved, That the Auditor of State be requested to furnish this Convention with the amount of Auditor's warrants paid in favor of the Hon. Newton Bateman, or State Superinteident of Public Instruction, or both, bfor salary. Also, the amount paid him by the State for any books he may have gotten up, or furnished the State. Also, for any travelin, or incidental expenses, or per diem allowances made him as member of any board of education, charity, or in any other public capacity, giving date and amount of each allowance. 2. That the treasurers of the State Normal school, located in Bloomington, Illinois, and of the Industrial University, located at Urbana, Illinois, be requested to furnish to the Convention any and all amounts of money paid the Hon. Newton Bateman for his services, per diem, allowance, mileage, incidental expenses, or for any other purpose whatever, during his connection with one or both of said institutions. ARTICLE -. EDUCAiTION. SECTION 1. The General Assembly shall provide a thorough and efficient system of free schools, whereby all minor children of this State may receive a good common school education. SEC. 2. All lands, moneys or other property donated, granted or received for school, college, seminary or university purposes and the proceeds thereof, shall be faithfully applied to the objects for which such gifts or grants were made. SEC. 3. Neither the General Assembly nor any county, city, town, township, school district, or other public corporation, shall ever make ant appropriation or pay from any public fund whatever, anything in aid of any church or sectarian purpose, or to help support or sustain any school, aca demy, s eminary, college, university or other literary or scientic institution controlled by any church or sectarian d enomination whatever, nor shall any grant or donation of land, money, or other personal property, ever be made by the State or any such public corporation, to any church or for any sectarian purpose whatever. SEC. 4. No teacher, State, county, township or district school officer, shall ever be interested in the sale, proceeds or profits of any book, apparatus or furniture used or to be used in any school in this State, under such penalties as may be provided by the General Assembly. SEc. 5. There shall be a State Superintendent of Public Instruction, who shall be elected at the same time, in the same manner, and for the same term as the Governor, and who shall hold his office until his successor is elected and qualified, and whose powers, duties and compensation shall be regulated by law. SEC. 6. There shall be a county superintendent of schools in each county, whose qualifications, powers, duties, compensation, and term of offce shall be prescribed by law. S.,MUEL C. PARKS, CHARLES F. SPRINGER, WM. H. UNDERWOOD, D. C. WAGNER, W. C. GOODHUE, JOHN C. HA.INES, E. Y. RICE. Mr. PARKS. Mr. President: Insubmitting this report, I do not desire, and I am not authorized by the committee, to make any further formal report than twe 848 I 8 i s i APRIL 21, 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1389 RESOLUTIONS FOR ADOPTION. The PRESIDENT. Resolutions adoption are now in order. fo r 139 COSJUINLCsETO HRDY Mr. HAYES. Mr. President: I would inquire whether it is competent by a mere vote to order a letter of that kind upon the records-whether it is not a matter of privilege with any member to object? The PRESIDENT. It is competent for the Convention to order priLted as a par" of its proceedings a card presented by any member of the Convention, if a majority shall see fit to do so. Mr. CHURCH. It has not been the usual custom, and I do not believe it to be a good custom. If the gentleman from Cook [Mr. Coolbaugh] had reflected for a nmoment, I think he would not have followed his speech with the motion to lay on the table, thus closing all debate with the advantage to him of his speech. The PRESIDENT. The question is not debatable. The yeas and nays were called for. Mr. CHURCH. I will ask the gentleman if he will withdraw his motion to lay on the table. Mr. COOLBAUGH. I will withdraw my speech if the gentleman from Madison [Mr. Springer] will withdraw his. [Laughter]. The Secretary proceeded to call the roll. Mr. BROMWELL (when his name was called) said: I would ask about one minute for the purpose of explaining my vote. ["Leave!" "Leave!'] C Mr. BROMWELL. So far as I am concerned, I am a friend of Dr. Bateman. I have always regarded him highly, and I hope he regards me as a friend. This motion, however, is one which I think he would not make if he were here as a member-to encunmber the records of this body with the private communications of a gentleman to a newspaper. However much we might be in favor of that communication being heard and appreciated by the cummunity, I never can consent to have such matter put upon our record, and for that reason I shall vote "Aye." Mr. FOX, (when his name was called) said: Mr. President: I desire to explain my vote. I agree with some of the remarks of the gentleman from Coles [Mr. Bromwell]. I think that this whole matter is outside of the province of the Convention If it were a mere question of having this card spread upon the record, I should be opposed to it, but in view of the resolution of the gentleman from DeWitt [Mr. Moore], just passed by the Convention, going, as I conceive, outside of the province of this Convention, inquiring into the private and official afcsirs of the Superintendent of Public Instruction, seeking information in relation to expenditures of moneys from various parts of the State, from various boards of education, and also going to the office of the Auditor of Public Accounts, seeking similar information there, also seeking to investigate his efforts in literary matters, coupled with the speech made bytheg en Itieman from DeWitt, on a former occasion, charging that money had been ex pended for which no account has been given, which speech induced this card from the Superintendent, I deem that he should be heard. If this Convention is going to resolve itself into a high court of inquiry, investigating questions of personal character, questions involving the integrity of an NAYS. Goodell, Springer, Haines of Co'k, Sutherland, Hay, Tincher, Merriam, Tubbs, Moore Underwood, Parks, Wagner, Peirce, Wells, Poage, Wheaton, Sedgwick, Whiting-28. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION THURSDAY) 1390 individual, I think simple justice demands that the'Superintendent should be heard in his owi-i defense before the tribunal that'tries him. Mr. WASHBURN. Mr. President: I rise to a question of order. The gentleman rose simply to explain his vote, and I object that it is not in order for the gentleman to make a loidg argument on the merits of the question, in order to i-,rfltience those who vote after him. The PRESIDENT. Explanations of votes, so far as the Chair has ever observed, are alwavs arguments. The gentleman is in older, no one having objected. Mr. FOX. Mr. President:!bad about concluded what I had to say. If it had not been for the passage of the resolution offered by the gentleman from DeWitt [Mr. Moore], I should be in favor of layiDg the resolution upon the table; but as the Convention passed those resolutions, I wish the Superintendent also to be heard. The result was then announced-yeas, 41; nays, 28-as follows: holding that position, might possess more power than any other State officer, and I proposed to put him in the same attitude as other State officers, that the peo. ple might have it in their power to dispose of them all at some time or other. I have no personal dislike to Mr. Bateman,-never had, nor have I now-while I cau, upon the other hand, say that my relations with Mr. Bateman have uniformly been of the most amicable character. I do not desire to attack him. I made no charges against him. Until I do, I see no reason why certain gentlemen upon this floor should become the ready champions of any officer of the State in consequence of any remarks that may be made upon general principles, or any remarks that I have made. I stand here to defend what I have done and said, for I brought no charges. It was only by implication that any remarks I made could have applied to the Superintendent of Public Instruction now in office. I simply laid down a programme, and intimated the power he might have in a State where he has an ally in each county. I have no feelidg of dislike or desire to injure Mr. Bateman, and no purpose in the world to pursue him; and I do not know that the gentleman frr)m DeWitt [Mr. Moore] has any purpose to pursue him or to do more than to discharge his duty to the people he represents, and in fact to the people of the entire State. Mr. COOLBAUGH. Mr. President: What is the, question? The PRESIDENT. The question is on the motion of the gentleman from Madison [Mr. Sprii3ger], that the card of the Superintendent of Public Instruction referred to by the gentleman from DeWitt [Mr. Moore], in his remarks, be read to the ConventiOD, and that it be published with the debates and proceedings of the Convention. Mr. COOLBAUGH. I can see no rea,son or propriety in that. If it is done for the purpose of doing justice to the Superintendent of Public Instruction, as is claimed by the gentleman from Madison [Mr. SpriDger], I do not see in what respect that will do him any greater justice than has been already done him. His card has been published in almost every prominent newspaper in the State, and YEAS. Abbott, Ellis, Allen of Crlfd,En,-Iish,Anderson, Forman, Archer, Goodhiie Bowman, Hankins, Bromwell, Hanna, Browning, Harwo'od, Buxton, Ha es, Cameron, n., Coolbaugh, Cov, Craig, Medilf, Cross, Neece, Cummings, Parker, Dement, Perley, Rice, Seti,olfi —,Id, Sharp, Sherrill, Snyder, Turner, Vandeventer, Wait, W,,tll, Washl)uru, Wendling, Wilson, Wright-41. Ainthony, Bayne, Benjamin, Cary, Church, Cody, Eldredge, Fox, Fuller, Gamble, ABSENT, OR NOT VOTING. Allen of Alex,Hart, Ross, Atkins, I-Iildrup, Skinner, Brown, McDowell, Truesdale, Bi-yan, Pillsbury, Mr. President-14. Haines of Lake, Robin son, So the motion of Mr. Coolbaugh, to lay .on the table the motion of Mr. Springer, that Mr. Bateman's "card" be read, etc., was agreed to. Mr. SPRINGER. Mr. President: I move now a reconsideration of the vote by which the resolution of the gentleman from DeWitt [Mr. Moore] was adopted. I do that for this reason: To do an act of justice to an honest man and'a faithful official. There can be no wrong done by such action. There is no necessity f)r any particular fastidiousness about incumberi-Dg our records, for the reason that they have already been burdened with matter as foreign to their legitimate subject as one can well imagine. I do not think it is the intention of any delegate to injure Dr. Bateman, by false or ill-advised statements touching his official conduct,, but I can see wherein the action just taken by the Convention might do, a glaridg. iDj ustice to him. I believe we never have had a more conscientious, efficient and honest official than Dr. Bateman. This card is simply hisvinclication. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. tion, use or change of school-books or text books. It is a matter belonging wholly and exclusively to the local boards of education and of scho)ol directors. 3. The statements that have been made and circulated may warrant a word concerning my private affairs. I did not enter the office in "poverty," and have not "become one of the wealthy men of the State." What I now have is not more than would have resulted from the investment, at the usual rates, of the sum I possessed when I first entered the office. I have received from the State for my nine years of service as superintendent, the sum of $21,650, and no more, being an average of $2,405 per annum. In the same number of the 2Register occurs the following: [1.] "Mr. MOORE. * It is only necessary to refer to the immense amount of money that the Superintendent of Public Instruction has a right to direct and control. * It is all advised and controlled through his office. The sum of money subject to the management of that officer in 1865, was $3,316,739. In 1.866 it was $4,445,130. In 1867 it was $5,707,810. In 1868 it was $6,896,879, and in 1869 it amounted to the immense sum of $7,201,202, more than the entire revenue of the State of Illinois.B. [2.] "He has aided in increasing their sala ries (of county superintendents) from 1867 to 1869, almost one thousand dollars each. In 1867 the average allowance to the county superintendents was $1,049; in 1869 it rose to the enormous sutm of $1,924, * one-half of which is all they ought to be allowed to have." [3.]'We have $1,018,158 that is not use id for any purpose that they dare report, or that they do report. * There is in the neighborhood of half a million a year that nobody accounts for at all in the reports." * * Mr. COOLBAUGH. Mr. President: I rise to a point of order. We have a standing rule in this Convention which prevents any gentleman from occupying more than ten minutes in any one speech, on any subject. I submit that the time has been occupied and exceeded; and this is part of the gentleman's speech. Mr. PERLEY. For that reason I desired to have it considered read. Mr. SPRINGER. Mr. President: I apprehend that the rule does not apply here. The PRESIDENT. The rule applies; but by the clock, the gentleman has half a minute more. Mr. SPRINGER. With the understanding that the whole p ape r is spread upon the record, I will consent tha t it shall be considered as read. The PRESIDENT. The Secretary will proceed with the reading. otherpersn orpersns i thi an; The Secretary proceeded to read: legevnoftemneinwihortepr schol-bok r boks wih avie toproit, "To the above I remark"- - utltefcsaerpre ohmb h or ithanyoter iew orobector urpse Mr. McCOY. I hope it will not be con- poe colofcr,js sohrsaitc 2. hil I m fee o epres m imartalsidered read, except so far as the readingpot Itinounithtrnatosoth and nbisedopiionof te mrit ofanyactually goes. ya r opee,adtefnnilrcr andallscoolboks alinguner y otie, Mr. SPRINGER. If I eanno'; have it fec itit onhpadcut smd to o o;ye I av nve avisd r ecm- Mr. BUXTON. Mr. President: As aon flcltxslve,tenme n mened ny ouny, owshi, cty,scholthe gentleman from Mad~soa [Mr. Spring cs fsho ossbit h mutpi disric orsco tn tis tae, n ay mn-er] has resigned the floor, I now ask totecesadshoofiesorireaint neror or, dreclyor ndrecly,tochagehave the reading of it continued, as part ayohrmte rtigcnetdwt h eve coferedwih ay chol ffierteah-of my speech. [Laughter.] iue fteshos h eaino h er o ohe prsn r eron, n nyc'uny, The PRESIDENT. The Secretary SaeSprnedn oaltefnnilsa towshi, cty scooldisrit o scoolinwill proceed. tsisrpre ohm speieytesm thi oran oter tae, onernng heinto- The Secretary proceeded to read: a i eaint te ttsis uhah book ino orfro an schol n th Stte; To the above I remark" —tit,o col,o ppl,ec i hl norhae eerbee iteesedin,a ary o, Mr. HANNA. Mr. President: I rise uhrt,rgtaddtinrsettal or venknwin toorcogizat f ay po-to a point of order. The gentleman fromthsttsispranntoteshosyti any school-book or books,in ay ton [Mr. Buxton] will be required toposbeanthntarag,casfan schol r cholsin hi Stte.I avenolegl,speak to the question before the Couven- pbihte nhsbena eot o h offiialor iscetinar auhorty r pwertion. I will ask the Secretary to read the ifraino h eiltr,adtepo whaeve i th mate oftex boksin hequestion before the Convention. [Laugh-piofteSae Hecnoaleorcag to lai, asum orexecis an or he PRESIDENT. The question is txto repniuerpre ohm n othr athoit inreltio t th inrodc-upon the motion to reconsider the resolu- mr hnh sfrtenme fsho tion presented by the gentleman from DeWitt [Mr. Moore]. The Chair will decide the point of order, unless gentl emen desire to debate i t. It is competent to discuss a question Of re consideration. It opens the merits of the question. The Chair regards the card, which is read as a part of the speech of the gentleman from Madison [Mr. Spring er], and which it is proposed by the gen tleman from Clinton [Mr. Buxton] to con tinue, as coming within the proper line of argument upon a motionte reconsider. It refers to the subject matter of the resolu tions. It concerns the ~ questions which were raised by the gentleman fromDe Witt [Mr. Moore], and certainly con tains matter that is proper for the Con vention to hear, as a part of the argument of the gentleman. It is the right, there fore,:,of the gentleman from Clinton Mr. Buxton] to continue the reading of the document. The Secretary will resume the reading. Mr. BROMWELL. Mr. President: I rise to a point of order. I understand that thus far, this card has been read as a part of the speech of the gentleman from Madison [Mr. Springer], and that now the gentleman from Clinton [Mr. Buxton] proposes to have the reading of it continued as part of his speech. Now, I submit that it is contrary to order to make in this body a joint and several speech. [Laughter.] The PRESIDENT. The point of order is not sustained. It- is competent to pursue the line of argument which has been dropped. Mr. McCOY Mr. President: I give notice that I will read a communication from Bogota. [Laughter.] Mr. WENDLING. Mr. President: Is this debate in order? The PRESIDENT. It is notin order. The gentleman from Clinton [Mr. Bux ton] is engaged in an argument. [Laughter.] The Secretary concluded the reading of the card of Mr. Bateman, as follows: To the above I remark: 1. Not a dollar of any of the various sums mentioned in the foregoing quotations is in any manner, or to any extent, direetlv or indirectly, sui)ject to the direction, management or control of the State Superintendent. He has absolutely nothing whatever to do with that money, or any of it, nor any knowledge even, of the manner in whlich, or the purposes for whnich it, or any of it, is expended, until the facts are reported to himt by the proper school officers, just as other statistics are reported, to be embodied in the State report. It is not until the transactions of the year are completed, and the financial record of each district, township and county is made up, that the State Superintendent knows, or can know, anything whatever about the amount of local taxes levied, the number and cost of school houses built, the amount paid teachers and school officers, or in relation to any other matter or thing connlected with the financial management, conditionl, and expenditulres of the schools. The relation of the State Superintendent to all the financial statistics reported to him, is precisely the same as his relation to other statistics, such as the enumeration of chvildren, the number of districts, of schools, of pupils, etc. His whole authority, right and dutty in respect to all the statistics pertaining to the school system of the State, is to collect them as reliably as possible; and then to arrange, classify and publish them in his biennial report, 1or the information of the Legislature, and the people of the State. He canniot alter or change any statistics reported to him, and is in no manner or sense responsible for any items of taxation or expenditure reported to him, any more than he is for the number of school Mr. CHURCH. Mr. Pre side nt: Wit h the permission of the gentleman from Madison [oir. Springer], I wouldtlike t o ask him to r ead the card. Mr. SPRINGER. Mr. President: I will send it to the Secretary to be read. Mr, PERLEY. Mr. President: I move it be considered read. We have all read it. ["Read," "read," "read."] The Secretary proceeded to read the card of Mr. Bateman, as follows: A CARD. SRINGFIELD, Ill., April 4th, 1870. In the Constitutional Convention, February 21st, 1870, as appears from the Conveition .Register of March 1st, 1870, the report of the Committee on Executive Department being under advisement, the following words were uttered: [1] "Mr. TINCHER. He (the Superintendent of Public Instruction) is at liberty to go into the book business, perhaps not publicly, but in partnership with every man in Connecticut in the publication of school books; and then, going to work with his superintendents in each county, he gets the books inserted in their schools by some twist of the wrist, and requires the people to change their books every four or six months, as has been the case in many instances. * * [2] It has been the custom for anybody to force new books into the schools whenever they desired to do so, and it appears to have begun at headquarters. * * [3] While it has not heretofore been regarded as a profitable office, that of Superintendent of Public Instruction, yet I understand that a man may go into that office in poverty, and in a few years he becomes one of the wealthy men of the State." The truth is: 1. I have never received, directly or indirectly, one cent, more or less, nor anything of the value of one cent, more or less, from any author, publisher, printer or agent of any school-book, or series of school-books; nor from any person or persons in any manner connected with or interested in the making, publishing or selling of any school-book or books, fbr or on account of the giving or withholding of any recommendation, indorsenment or approval of any such school-book or books, or any other book or books, nor for aiding, abetting, assisting, proposing or conniving at the introduction or exclusion of any school-book or books into or from any public or private school or schools, or other institutions of learning, in this State, or any other State. Nor have I ever had any connection of any sort or description, public or private, secret or open, direct or indirect, with any author or authors, publisher or publishers, printer or printers, agent or agents, of any school-book or books; nor with any county superintendent of schools, school trustee, school director, or other school officer or officers, or with any teacher or teachers, or any other person or persons in this State or elsewhere, concerning or in relation to any school-book or books, with a view to profit, or with ally other view} or object or purpose whatever. 2. While I am free to express my impartial and unbiased opinion of the merits of any and all school books falling under mat notice, so far as time and opportunity of examination will allow, and it is strictly right and proper to do so;* yet I have never advised or recommended any county, township, city, school district or scho,1 iu this State, in any manner or form, directly or indirectly, to change any school-book or school-books;* nor have I ever conferred with any school officer, teacher, or other person or P)ersons, in any county, township, city, school district or school in this or any other State, concerning the introduction or exclusion of any school-book or books into or from any school in the State;t nor have I ever been interested in, a party to, or even knowing to or cognizant of any proposed introduction, exclusion or change of any school-book or text book or books, in any school or schools in this State. I have no legal, official or discretionary authority or power whatever in the matter of text books in the public schools, and have never claimed, assumed or exercised, or desired or attempted to claim, assume or exercise any official or other authorityr in relation to the inltroduc APP,IL- 21 1870. 1391 139 COSIUTOA COsNTO THSAY formation is to be required as to matters which pertain to his office. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the motion to reconsider the vote by which the Convention adopted the resolution offered by the gentleman from DeWitt [Mr. Moore.] Mr. WENDLING. Mr. President: I move to lay that motion upon the table. Mr. WHEATON. Is it in order to have the resolution,whichit is proposed to reconsider, read? The PRESIDENT. It is in order. The Secretary will read the resolution. The Secretary read the resolution offered by Mr. Moore, as follows: Resolved, That the Auditor of State be requested to furnish this Convention with the amount of Auditor's warrants paid in favor of the Hon. Newton Bateman or State Superintendent of Public Instruction or both, for salary. Also, the amount paid him by the State for any books he may have gotten up or furnished the State; also, for any traveling or incidental expenses, or per diem allowances made him as member of any board of education, charity or in any other public capacity, giving date and amount of each allowance. 2. That the treasurers of the State Normal school, located in Bloomington, Ill., and of the Industrial University, located at Urbana, Ill., be requested to furnish to this Convention any aud all amounts of money paid the Hon. Newton Bateman for his services, per diem allowances, mileage,incidental expenses, or for any other purpose whatever, during hisi connection with one or both of said institutions. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the motion to lay the motion to reconsider upon the table. The yeas and nays were ordered, and, being taken, resulted-yeas, 35, nays, 34 -as follows: children, or school districts and teachers reported to him. I have never dictated, managed or controlled, or attempted or desired to direct or control or influence the expenditure of a dollar of the school fund, and, as already said, I h a eve never known a nything about any such expenditures until the y were made and reported to m e as statistical information. 1. Th e average com pensation of co unty superintendents for 1869, was not $1,924, but c924, as my original report, on file among the papers of the Convention, will show. 3. Th e S tate statistical report is made up wholly from the reports of county superintenden ts,a nd alwa ys includes every item contained in said reports. The reports of county superintendents are wholly made up from those of the township treasurers, never omitt ing an item contained i n the latter. Hence, if there a re any schoo l officers who dare o not and d o not mak e full and tru e r eports, they must be th e township treasurers, who receive, keep and pay out all school moneys of every description. These treasurers are appointed by the t rustees, who are annually elected by the people. Twice a year their books and accounts are examined and overhauled by the trustees, who may summarily remove them at any time. They are all under heavy bonds, doubly secured, from the liability of which our supreme court have declared that neither negligence, nor unavoidable accident, nor a felony.committed by another, nor anything whatever but the act of God, or the public enemy, can excuse or release them. They cannot pay out a dollar except upon a legal order of the directors; and every such order, to be legal, must state the particular object or purpose for which the money is required. Their reports are based upon these vouchers and other official records and documents. All this renders it highly improbable, to say the least, that these treasurers should attempt, or be able to leave unaccounted for some half a million of dollars annually. I believe the simple truth to be that the whole excess of receipts over expenditures, in any given year, is in the safe custody of these two thousand treasurers, standing partly to the credit of the eleven thousand districts, and partly as undistributed township funds, awaiting the action of the trustees, protected by official bonds to the aggregate amount of over thirteen millions of dollars, and that every dollar of these funds is about as safe as human legislation can make it. I have made these statements from a sense of propriety and duty. I have received repeated and unwonted marks of regard and confidence from the people of Illinois, and I heartily acknowledge their right to scrutinize all my official acts, and my obligation to explain every matter connected with my admiinistration of the important affairs committed to my care, so far as may be necessary or desired. As State Superintendent, I have never knowingly violated, in letter or spirit, any law regulating my official duties, nor done any other act or thing which I have the least desire to conceal or withhold from the public, but have from the first. to the very best of my ability, devoted my whole heart and strength and time to the interests of pub-ic education. And here I leave the matter, ~ ot allowing myself to believe that any man, in the Convention or out of it, wishes to do me an injustice. _ Mr. BUXTON. Mr. President: I move to lay t he r esolution on the table. Mr. DEMENT. Mr. President: I be. lieve I have the flo or. I understand that this lady brought a letter to the h onorable gentle man lfrom Co ok rMr. Medill], who has r ead the lec ture, and who suggested to me, as chairman of the Committee on the Right of Suffrage, the introduction of t his resolution. I hope the Convention will adopt it. Mr. MEaDILL. I rece ive d a letter o f introduction last evening from Mr. Whea ton, husband of the lady Mr. SPRINGER. With the gentleman's permiission-Mr. President, do I understand the Chair to say that the maotion to recon s ider the r esolution of tahe gentleman from DeWitt [MCr. Mo ore] was laid on the table? The PRESIDENT. The motion to reconsider was laid on the table. Mr. MEDILL. I received a letter of introduction, last night, from Mr. Wm. G. Wheaton, formerly a citizen of this State, a resident, I believe, of Peori, which reads as follows: KALAMAZOO, Mich., April 20, 1870. I~on. Toseph Medill, Springfield, Il.: DEAR SIp.-My wife,'the bearer, has written a lecture against "woman suff,'a,e," which she wishes to read before the Constitutional Convention of Illinois. Will you aid her, and render such assistance as may be proper in bringing her before that body? And very much oblige, Yours truly, W. G. WaEATON. She also has letters to the gentleman from Fulton [Mr. Ross], who is not here. I perused the paper this morning. It is written from a woman's stand-point. It is plain and perspicuous in its treatment of the subject, strong and convincing in argumenit, eloquent in diction, and is a lecture that every member of this Convention, and every lady and gentleman in the State who is troubled in mind on the subject of "Womarlis Suffrage," should hear or read, as it furnishes food for serious reflection. I hope the resolution will be adopted, and that every member of the Convention will not fail to attend and hear the important truths it recites, told in unvarnished language by an earnest and sincere advocate of the best interests of her sex, and of the welfare of society. Mr. VANDEVENTER. I move the previous question. The motion for the previous question was agreed to, and the mt~ain question was ordered. The PRESIDENT. The question is on the adoption of the resolution. The resolution offered by Mr. Dement, was agreed to. SUJPERINTEN2DENT OF PUBLIC INSTRUC TION. Mr. SPRINGER. I desireto offer the following resolution, and move its adopt tion; anid! move the previous question. The Secretary read the resolution offered by Mr. Springer, as follows: R~esolved, That the Superintendent of Public Instruction be also requested to furnish this Convention with the information called for by the resolution just offered by the gentleman from DeWitt [Mr. Moore] and adopted by the Convention. Mr. ALLEN, of Crawford. I move to lay the resolution on the ~abler NEWTON BATEMAN. ABSENT, OR NOT VOTING. Archer, Craig, Robinson, Atkins, Haines of LakeRoss, Billings, Hildrup, Springer, Brown, McDowell, Truesdale, Bryan, Pillsbury, Mr. President-15. So the motion of Mr. Wendling to lay upon the table the motion of Mr. Springer to reconsider the resolution off-red by Mr. Moore, was agreed to. USE OF HALL. Mr. DEMENT. Mr. President: I offer the following resolution for adoption. The Secretary read the resolution offere d by Mr. Dement, as follows: Resolved, That the use of this hall be given, this (Thursday) evening, to Mrs. H. G. Wheaton, of Kalamazoo, Michigan, for the purpose of delivering a lecture "Against Woman's Suffrage." l M r. BUXTON. Mr. P residen t As a mnatter of justice to Mr. Bateman, I think that this resolution should include him, t,s a proper person to furnish information ipon this question, as well as the other )fficers named-the Auditor and Treasirer. I vote, to lay upon the table the motion to have this communication of Mr. Bateman's read, but believe it to be a matter of justice that he should be heard, and have au opportunity to make a report upon this question, if an investigation is to be made at all. Therefore, I have insisted upon his statement being read. I am willing the whole subjectshall be laid upon the table, but I think he should be requested, is one of the officers of this State, to furnish information, if any in. CONSTITUTIONAL CON'VENTION THio-.RSDAY, 1392 YEAS. Abbott, Hanna Allen of Alex.,Hart, Allen of Crlfd., Harwood, Anderson, Hayes, 'Bowmttn, King, Bro wning, me(56y, Carricron' Moore, Cumi-nings, Neece, Dement, Parker, Ellis, Perley, Goodhue, Rice, Hankins, Scholfield, Sharp, Sherrill, Snyder, Turner, Vandev'enter, Wait, wall" Washburn, Wendling, Wilson, Wright-35. NYS. Forman, Poage, Fox, Sedgwick, Faller, Skinner, Gat-able, Sutherland, Goodell, Tincher, Raines of CookTubbs, Hay, Underwood, Wagner, Merriam, Wells, Parks, Wheaton, Peirce, Whiting34. Anthony, Bayne, Benjamin, Bromwell, Buxton, Cary, Church, Cody, Coolbaagh, Cross, Eldredge, English, APRIL t, 1570. DEBATES AD PROCEEDJGS. 1393 Mr. HAY. Mr. President: I will give way simply for that purpose. The PRESIDENT. The Secretary will read the resolution. The Secretary read the resolution of fered by Mr. Cody, as follows: Resolved, That the chairman of the Com mittee on Revision and Adjustment be author ized to employ a clerk for said committee. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the adoption of the resolution. The resolution was agreed to. JUDICIAL DEPART-,AENT —AGAIN. 3Ar. HAY. Mr. President: I now move that the Convention take up the report of the Committee of the Whole on the judiciary article, and consider it un til it is disposed of. The PRESIDENT. The question is on the motion of the g-entleman from Sanga mon [Mr. Hay]. The motion was agreed to. [The following is the article, as report ed by the Committee of the Whole]. ARTICLE -. JUDICIAL DEPARTMENT. SECTION 1. The judicial powers, except as in this article is otherwise provided, shall be vested in one supreme court, circuits courts, county courts, justices of the peace, police magistrates, and in such courts as may be created by law in and for cities and incor porated towns. The courts of record, other than circuit courts, now existing in the cities of the State, shall be continued until other wise provided by law. SUPREMEc COURT. SAENC. 2. The supreme court shall consist of seven judges, and shall have original jurisdic tion in cases relating to the revenue, in man damus, and habeas corpus, and appellate juris diction in all other cases. One of said judges shall be chief justice; four shall constitute a quorum, and the concurrence of four shall be necessary to every decision. SEC. 3. No person shall be eligible to the office of judge of the supreme court who is not a citi zen of the United States and of this State; nor unless he shall have resided in this State for five years or more immediately preceding his election; shall reside, at the time of his election, in the division in which he shall be elected, and be at least thirty years of age. bnEC. 4. Terms of the supreme court shall continue to be held in the present grand di visions at the several places now provided for holding the same therein, untilO(*therwise provided by law; and, in addition thereto, one or more terms of said court shall be held, for the Northern division, in the city of Chi cago, each year, at such times as said court may appoint, whenever said city or the county of Cook shall provide appropriate rooms therelor, and the use of library without extion amened, y ading,"als," aterpense to the State. The judicial divisions lw rvde,ta adjde hl o e may be altered, increased or diminished in cieayadtoa opnainfrsc "be, sotha theresluton sallrea asnumber, and the times and places of holding srie. Btn ug hl i nrve ~eso~d, Tat te Suerinendet ofPub- SEC. 5. The present grand divisions shall be uo ae eie yhm lieInsrucio beals reuetedto urnshpreserved, and be denominated Southern, CRUT ORS thi Covenionwit th inormtio caledCentral and Northern, until otherwise pro- SC 2 h ici orssalhv rg forby he esoutinjst ffeed y te gn-vided by law. The State, until otherwisena juidcinoalcassilaan tiemn fom e~it [M. More] an adpt-provided by law, shall be divided into seveneqiyansuhaplaejrsitoasi ed by the Convention. ~~districts for the election of judges, as follows:ormybprvddbla;adsalhl Theresluton ffeed y M. Sriner,ties of St. Clair, Washington, Jefferson,Thtemofofcofjdeofcrutcut as amendd, was areed to.Wayne, Edwards, Wabash, While, Hamilton, salb i er,adtepeetjde hl Franklin, Perry, Randolph, Monroe, Jackson, hl hi fie ni tews rvddb JUDICIAL DPARTMENT.Williamson, Saline, Gallatin, Hardin, Pope, lw Mr. HY. M. Prsidet: nowmoveUnion, Johnson, Alexander, Pulaski, Massac SC 3 h tt hl,bfr h xia thatthe onvntio tak upthe epor ofan d Clinton.siooftetrsoofieothprsn the ommtte of he hol, ontheJa-counties of Madison, Bond, Marion, Clay,juiilcrut-omoetaoncicifo diciry atice, ad mke i th speialRichiand, Lawrence, Crawford, Jasper, Effing-evronhudethuadihbttsoth order until isposed of.ham, Fayette, Montgoiuery, Macoupin, Shel-Sttanfoeahowhconjugshl by, Cumberland, Clark, Greene, Jersey, Cal-beeetdbtheetosteef Th jui CLERK O COMlTTEE N ERYSION. houn and Christian.cildvsosadjdcacicissalb Mr. CDY. M. Preident: I dsire Third District —To be composed of the coun-fomdocotgoscute,iasnal to ak te gntlmanto ithrawhismo-ties of Sangamon, Macon, Logan, DeWitt,eimatfrascrusacswlpemt Piatt, Douglas, Champaign, Vermilion, Mc-Necicismybfomdanthbona tion for a moment. ~~Lean, Livingston, Ford, Iroquois, Coles, Ed-risocicisaddvsoscagdbth The Cmmitte onRevison an Ad-gar, Moultrie and Tazewell.GeeaAsebyaitsesosnxpred juatmnt hae ha two eetigs, tink ourth District —To be composed of the gteletooftejdeofteernt it ncesaryto avea cerk an deirecounties of Fulton, McDonough, Hancock, o iiin ogtt ecagd u tn resoutio in hat iew. Schuyler, Brown, Adams, Pike, Mason, Me-ohrtm:P~ie, httecrut a to present a ~~~~~nard, Morgan, Cass and Scott. b qaie rcagda h rtssino Ffth I)istrict-To be composed of the coun ties of Knox, Warren, hitenderson, Mercer Henry, Stark, Peoria, Marshall, Putna m, Bu reau, LaSalle, Grundy and Woodford. Si,xth Di.strict-To be composed of the coun tie of of Whitesider o, Carroll, JoDaviess, Steph enson, Winnebago, Boone, McHenry, Kane, Kendall, De.Kalb, Lee, Ogle and Rock Is land; and the Seventh nDi,,trict-To be composed of the counties of Lake, Cook, Will, Kankakee and DuPage. And that at the time of voting on the adop tion of this Constitution, one judge of the supreme court shall be elected by the electors thereof in each of said districts numbered two, three, six and seven, and who shall hold their office for the term of nine years from the first Monday of June, A. D. 1870. And when ever the judicial divisions for the election of said judges shall be altered, increased or di minished, the same shall be done upon the rule of equality of population, as nearly as county boundaries will permit, and of equal apportionment of judges according to popula tion. SEC. 6. The judges of the supreme court in office at the adoption of this Constitution shall continue to hold their offices until the expiration of the term for which they were respectively elected, and the chief justice shall continue to act as such until the expira t-,ion of the term for which he was elected, after which the judges shall choose one of their number chief justice. SEC. 8. Appeals and writs of error may be taken to the supreme court in the division where the case is decided, or, by consent of the parties, to any other division. SEc. 9. The supreme court shall appoint one reporter of its decisions, who shall hold his office for six- years, subject to removal by the court. SEC. 10. At the time of the election for representatives in the General Assembly, hap peniDg next preceding the expiration cf the terms of office of the present clerks of said court, one clerk of said court for each division (unless otherwise provided by law) shall be elected, whose term of office shall be six years from said election (but who shall not enter upon the duties of his office until the expira tion of the term of his predecessor), and every six years thereafter, one clerk of said court for each division shall be elected. APPELLATE COURTS. SEC. 11. After the year A. D. 1874, inferior appellate courts, of uniform organization and jurisdiction, may be created in districts formed for that purpose, to which such appeals and writs of error may be prosecuted from circuit and other courts as the General Assembly may provide, and from which appeals and writs of error shall lie to the supreme court in all criminal cases and cases in which a franchise or freehold, or the validity of a statute is involved, and in such other cases as mav be provided by law. Such appellate courts shall be held by such number of judges of the circuits courts, and at such times and places, and in s~uch manner, as may be provided by law: Protruded, that said judges shall not receive any additional compensation for such services. But no judge shall sit in review upon cases decided by him. CIRCUIT COURTS. SEC. 12. The circuit courts shall have origi hlal jurisdiction of all causes in law and equity, and such appellate jurisdiction as is or may be provided by law; and shall hold two or more terms each year in every county. The terms of office of judges of circuit courts shall be six years, aud the present judges shall hold their offices until otherwise provided by law. SEC. I3. The State shall, before the expiration of the terms of office of the present judges of the circuit courts, be divided into judicial circuits —not more than one circuit for every one hundred thousand inhabitants of the State —and foreach of which one judge shall be elected Scythe electors thereof. The judicial divisions and judicial circuits shall be formed of contiguous counties, in ashearly compact form as circumstances will permit. New circuits may be formed, and the boundaries of circuits and divisions changed by the General Assembly at its sessions next preced. ing the election of the judges of the circuits or divisions sought to be changed, but at no other time: Pro~vided, that the circuits may be equalized or changed at the first sessio~ of Abbott, Ellis, Shar p, Allen of Alex.,English, Sherrill, Allen of Crfd. Goodhue, Snyder, Anderson, Hankins, Turner, Bowman, Hanna, Vandeventer, Browning, Harwood, Wait, Cameron, King, Wall, Coolbaugh, McCoy, Washburn, Craig, Neece, Wendling, Cross, Parker, Wilson, Cummifigs, Rice, Wright-35. Dement,' Scholfield, NAYS. Anthony, Gamble, Peirce, Bayne, Goodell, Poage, Benjamin Haines of Co'k,Sedgwick, Bromwell, Hart, Springer, Buxton, ~Hay, Sutherland, Cary, Hayes, Tincher, Church, Hildrup, Tubbs, Cody, Medill, Underwood, English, Merriam, Wagner, Eldredge, Moore, Wells, Fox, Parks, Wheaton, Fuller, Perley, Whiting-36. So the m otion of Mr. Allen, of Crawford, to lay on the tablethe resolution offered by Mr. Springer, was not agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The previous question has been ordered on the adoption of the resol)ution, and the question will now be put. Mr. TURNER. Mr. President: I wish to inquire of the gentleman who offered the resolution, whether it was his intention that the information sought by the resolution should be derived alone from the Superintendent of Public Instruct-.on? That will be the effect of the resolution, as it now stands, whether it was so intended or not. Mr. SPRINGER. That was not my intention. I desire to have the resolution amended, by adding, "also," after "be," so that the resolution shall read as follows: Resolved, That the Superintendent of Public Instruction be also requested to furnish this Convention with the information called for by the resolution just offered by the gentleman from DeWitt [Mr. Moore], and adopted by the Convention. The resolution offered by Mr. Springer, as amended, was agreed to. JUDICIAL DEPARTNIEN4T. Mr. HAY. Mr. President: I now move that the Convention take up the report of the Committee of the Whole, on the Judiciary article, and make it the special order until disposed of. CLERK TO COMMITTEE ON REVISION. Mr. CODY. Mr. President: I desire to ask the gentleman to withdraw his motion for a moment. The Committee on Revision and Adjustment have had two meetings, think it necessary to have a clerk, and desire to present a resolution in that view. 349 'DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. AP.RIL 21) 1870. 1393 Mr. SPRINGER. I call for the previous question. The PRESIDENT. The mover of the resolution moved the previous question, but under the rules, the motion to lay on the table takes precedence. The question is on the motion of the gentleman from Crawford [Mr. Allen] to lay the resolution on the table. The yeas and iaays were ordered, and being taken, resulted-yeas 35, nays 36, -as follows: YEAS. ABSENT, OR NOT VOTING. Haines of Llk, Skinner, McDowell, Truesdale, Robinson, Pillsbur_v, Ross,, Mr. President- 12. Archer, Atkins, Brown, Bryan, 1391 CONSTITUTIONAL CO~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~YEX~~~~~~~~~~~~~i'ON TIIURSDAY,~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ magistrates may be taken to such inferior courts. SEC. 21. Appeals and writs of error shall be allowed from final determinations of county courts, as may be Tiovided by law. SEC. 22. The judges and clerks of county courts, in office at the adoption of this Constitution, shall hold their offices until the expiration of their respective terms, and the county coarts now in existence shall have the same power and jurisdiction they now possess, until the judges and clerks of county courts, provided for by this Constitution,shall be elected and qualified. COUNTY COMMISSIONERS. SEC. 24. There shall be elected in each of the counties of this State not under township organizationi. th.ree officers, who shall be styled "the board of county commissioners," and who shall hold sessions for tl e transaction of county business as shall be provided by law. SE C. 25. At the first election of county judges under this Constitution, said commissioners shall be elect. d-one of whom shall hold his office for one year, one for two years, ard one for three years, to be determined by lot; and every year thereafter one such officer shall be elected for the term of three years. PROBATE COURTS. SEC. 26. The General Assembly may provide ior the establishment of a probate court in each county having over fifty thousand population, and for the election of a judge thereof, whose term of office shall be the same as that of the county judge, and who shall be elected at the same time and in tlb,i same manner. Sad court shall have exclusive jurisdiction of all )robate matters, the se ttlement of estates of deceased persons, the appointment of gua-dians and conservators and settlements of tleir accounts, and in all mat,ters relating to apprentices. JUSTICES OF THE PEACE AND CONSTABLES. tSEC. 27. Justices of the peace, policlee magistrates and constables shall be elected in and for such districts as are or may be provided by law. STATE'S ATTORNEYS. SEC. 28. The present State's Attorneys shall hold their offices until the expiration of the terms for which they we-e elected. The electors of each county shall, at the time of the election for representatives in the Gereral Assembly hliapper'ng Lext preceding t.aee expiration of the terns of office of the prese nt States Attorneys, elect a State's Attorney in and for each county, whose term a of office shall be four years f!-om said election (but who 0;hall not enter upon the duties of office until the cxpration of the term of office of his predecessor), and every four years the,reafte r the electors of each county shall elect a State's Attorney for such county. servators, ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ CORT and setlemnt ofteraconsOadUNTYntb.icesd uigthi em the General Assembly after the adoption of this Constitution. The creation, alteration or change of any judicial division or judicial circuit shall not affect the tenure of office of any judge. SEC. 14. The General Assembly shall provide for the times or holding court in each county; which times shall not be changed, except by the General Assembly next preceding the general election for judges of said courts; but additional terms may be prov'ded for in anv county. The election for judges of the circuit courts shall be held on the first Monday in June next succeeding the creation of Dew circuits under this Constitution, and every six years thereafter. SEC. 15. The General Assembly may divide the State into judicial circuits of greater population and territory, in lieu of the circuits provided for in section thirteen, and provide for the election therein, severally, by the electors thereof, by general ticket, of three or more judges, who shall, respectively, hold the circuit courts in the circuit for which they shall be elected, in such manner as may be provided by law; but the whole number of judges to be elected in such enlarged circuits shall never exceed the proportion of one for every one hundred thousand inhabitants in the State. SEC. 16. From and after the adoption of this Constitution, judges of the circuit courts shall receive a salary of three thousand dollars per annum, payable quarterly, until otherwise provided by law; and after their salaries shall be fixed by law, they shall not be increased or diminished during the terms for which said judges shall be, respectively, elected; and, from and after the adoption of this Constitution, no judge of any court shall receive any other compensation, perquisite or benefit, in any form whatsoever, ror pe,form any other than judicial duties to which may belong any emoluments. SEC. 17. No person sbhll be eligible to the office of judge of the circuit or any infer'or court, or as a member of the "board of courty commissioners," who is not a citizen of -the United States and of this State; nor unless he shall have resided in this State for ,five years, or more, immediately preceding his election: shall reside, at the time of his .election, in the circuit, county or city in which he is elpcted, and shall be not less than tweuty-five years of age. The removal of any such judge or officer from the circuit, county or city in and for which he shall have been elected, shall vacate his offlice. COUNT f COURTS. ber. Each of them may hold a different branch thereof at the same time. SEC. 35. The judge having the shortest unexpired term shall be chief justice of the court of which hle is a judge. In case there are two or more whose terms expire at the same time, it may be determined by lot. SEC. 36. The judges of said courts and the State's attorney in said county shall receive the same salaries, payable cut of the State treasury in the same manner, as is or may be paid to the circuit judges and State's attorneys of the State, and such further compensation, to be paid by the county of Cook, as is or may be provided by law. Such compensation shall not be changed during their continuance in office. SEC. 37 The recorder's court of the city of Chicago shall be continued, and shall be called the "criminal-court of Cook county." It shall have the jurisdiction of a circuit court, in all cases of criminal and quasi criminal nature, arfsing in the county of Cook or that may be brought before said court pursuant to law; and,all recognizances and appeals, taken in said county in criminal and quasi criminal cases, shall be returnable and taken to said court. It shall have Do jurisdiction in civil cases, except in those on behalf of the people, and incident to such criminal or quasi criminal matters, and to dispose of unfinished business. The terms of said crihinal court of Cook county shall be held by one or more of the judges of the circuit or superior courts of Cook county, as nearl' as may be in alternation, as may be determined by said judges, or provided by law. Said judges shall be, ex-ofcio, judges of said court. SEC. 38. The present clerk of the recorder's court of the city of Chicago shall be the clerk of the criminal court of Cook county, during the term for which he was elected. The present clerks of the superior court of Chicago, and the present clerk of the circuit court of Cook county shall continue in office during the terms for which they were respectively elected, and thereafter there shall be but one clerk of the superior court, to be elected by the qualified electors of said county, who shall hold his office for the term of four years and until his successor is elected and qualified. SEC. 39. The clerks of all courts of record, the treasurer, sheriff, coroner and recorder of deeds, in said countv of Cook, shall receive salaries for tlh(ir services, to be fixed by law, which shall be payable quarterly, out of the treasury of said county, and which shall not be changed during their terms of office; but in no case shall the highest salary of either of said officers be as much as the compen sation allowed by law to a judge of the circuit court of Cook county. Said courts shall determine by rule, to be en tered of record, the number of assistants to be employed by the clerk, and their compensation shall be fixed by law, and paid quarterly out of the treasury of said county, and shall not be increased during their terms of office. All fees, perquisites and emoluments of ev~ery kind incident to litigation in said courts, shall be collected in such~ manner as shall be prov7idecd by law, axnd paid into the treasury of said county. SEC. 40. There shall be no justices of the peace or police magistrates ill the city of Chic agfo, afte~r the expiration of the ter ms of existing justices of the peace and police magistrate~s; and the General Assembly shall, at its first session after the adoption of this CSonstitution, divide the city into districts, and estab lishl courts therein, to consist of one or more judges for each district, and such officers as may be provided by law. The judges of said courts shall be appointed by the Governor, by and with the advice and consent of the Senate; but nlo person shall be appointed exzcept upon the recommnendation of a majority of the judges of the circuit, s aperior and county coulrts, and shall hold their offices for four years, and until their sucecessors be comnmissioned and qualified.. Such courts shall have iurisdiction in civil cases at law, in said city, where the amount in controversy does not exceed two hundred dollars, and such criminal jurisdiction,as may be conferred by law. The compensation of said judges shall be fiyed by law, and paid out of the city treasu y, and shall not be increased during their terms of offce. All fees and perquisites shall be paid into tile city treasury. Appeals, in civil cases, rorn justices of the peace in said county, and from said courts established COURTS OF COOK COUNTY. SEC. 29. The county of Cook shall be one judicial c; rcuit. SEC. 30. The circuit court of Cook countyv shall consist of five judges, until their number shall be increased, as herein provided. The present judge of the recorder's court of the city of Chicago, and the present judge of the circuit court of Cook county, shall be two of said judges, and shall remain in office for the terms for which they were repectively elected, and until their successors shall be elected and qualified. Three judges of said court shal l be elected on the day on which this Constitution shall be submitted to the people for adoption. SEC. 31. The superior court of Chicago shall be continued, and called the superior court of Cook county. The preserntjudgesof said cou r t shall remain in office for the terms for which they were rcspectively elected, and until their successors shall be elected ard qualified. SEC. 32. The General Assembly may increase the number of said judges, by adding one to either of said courts for every additional fifty thousand inhabitants in said county over and above a populationof four hundred thousand. SEC. 33. The terms of office of the judges of said courts, except as herein otherwise provided, shall be six years. SEC. 34. Any judge of either of said courts shall have all the powers of a circuit judge, and may hold the court of which he is a memre. CONSTITUTIONAL CO —N-VENTI.'ON THURSDAY, 1394: SEc. 18. There shall be elected, in and for each county, by the electors thereof, one judge and one clerk of the county court,whose terms of office fhall be four years. County courts shall be courts of record, and shall have original jurisdiction in all matters of probate, settlement of estates of deceased persons, appointments of guardians and conservators, and settlements of their accounts, in all matters relating to apprentices, and in proceedings for the collection of taxes and assessmentEr. In all counties that may. upon the recommendation of the board of county commissioners or board of supervisors, adopt the same by a majority of all the votes cast at any general election, the said county court shall also. have. original jurisdiction in actions of debt, assumpsit, trover, replevin and trespass, either to person or personal property, where the amount claimed or value of the property in controversy does not exceed -five hundred dollars, and of crimes and iiiisdemeanors where the punishment shall- not be capital, or confinement in the peiaiteiitiary. S-uc. 19. The General Asseml)ly may confer other'urisdiction upon county courts for counties having more than fifty thousand population, but such jurisdiction shall b,, uniform. SEc. 20. No grand juries shall be impanneled in county courts,but offenses shall be prosecuted therein in such other nianner as may be provided by law. Said courts having extended jurisdiction as provided in sections eighteen and nineteen, stiall have exclusive appellate jurisdiction in all cases of appeals from justices of'tbe peace and police magistrate,s, except in cases of contested elections, trespass to real property, forcible entrv and detainer, and forcible detainer: Provided, that in cities in which inferior courts of record are or may het-,,,after be established, appeals from justices of the peace and police APRIL 21, 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1395 will see to the distribution of the reports. The question is upon'concurrence with the Committee of the Whole in its amendiments proposed to the judiciary article, and the amendments will be considered in the order of the sections. The present question is upon concurrence in the first amnendment; after the word "cities," in the third line, to insert the words "and incorporated owns;" and it will be declared agreed to. The second amendment proposed by the Committee of the Whole is to strike out of the fourth line the words "having more than 5,000 population;" and it will be declared agreed to. The third amendment proposed- by the Committee of the Whole to the first section is to add to the section the words: "The courts of record, other than circuit courts, now existing in the cities of th ps State, shall be continued until otherwise provided by law." The Secretary will read section one of the report of the Committee of the Whole on the judiciary departme at. The Secretary read section one, as fol lows: in said districts, shall be allowed to the circuit or superior court of Cook county, in such manner as may be provided by law. SEc. 41. The General Assembly shall provide for the election of a recorder of deeds for said county of Cook, who shall hold his office for the term of four years, and until his successor shall be elec.ed srd qualified. SEC. 42. The General Assemblv shall prescribe the manner in which all fees shall be collected and paid over. by all officers. GENER A L PROVISIONS. SEC. 43. All judicial officers shall be coimmissioned bay t he Governor. SEC. 44. All laws relat'ing to c ourt s shall be general, and of uniform operation; and the organization, jurisdic ion, powers, proceedings and practice of all courts, of the same class or gr ade, so far a s regulated by law, ard the force and effect of the process, judgments and decrees of such courts, severally, shall be uniform. SEC. 45. The General Assembly may, for caus e entered on the journals, upon due no tice and opportunitv of defense, r emove from office anv judge, upon concurrence of t hree-fourths ofall the members elected, of each house. All other officers in this article mentioned shall be removed from office, on indictm" enat and final conviction for misde. meanor in office. SEC. 46. All judges of courts of record, inferior to the supreme court, shall, on or before the first day of June, of each year, report in w riting to the judges of t he supreme ourt, such defects and omissions in the laws as their experience may suggest; and the judges ofthe supreme court shall, on or be.ore the first day of January, of each year, report in writing, to the Governor (to be by him communicated to the General Assembly), such defects and omissions in the Constitution and laws as they may find to exi3t, together with appropriate forms of bills to cure suca defects and omissions in the laws. And the judges of the several circuit courts shall'report to the next General Assembly the numnber of days they have held courts in the several counties composing their respective circuits the preceding two years. SEC. 47. All officers provided for in this article shall hold their offices until their successors shall be qualified, and shall, respect ively, reside in the division, circuit, county or district, for which they may be elected or appointed. The terms of office of all such officers, where not otherwise prescribed in this article, shall be four years. And all who may be in office at the adoption of this Constitution shall continue to h(eld their offices until the expiration of the terms for which they were respectively elected, except as herein otherwise provided. All officers, where not otherwise provided for in this article, shall perform such duties and receive such compensation as is or may be provided by law. Vacancies in suchelective offices shall be filled by election;but where the unexpired term does not exceed one year, the vacancy shall be filled by appointment, as follows: Of juades, by the Governor; of clerks of courts, by the court to which the office appertains, or by the judge or judges thereof; and of all such other offices, by the board of supervisors or board of county commissioners,in the county where the vacancy occurs. SEC. 48. All process shall run, In the ranae of The People of the State of Illinois,; and all prosecutions shall be carried on In the name and by the authority of The people of the State of Illinois, and conclude Against the peace'arm diqgnitvy of the samxre. All laws providing compensation, by fees, to ministerial or other officers, provided foir in this article, shall, as to each class of said officers, be genaeral and uniform throughout the State. "Population,7 wherever used in this article, shall be determined by the nest preceding census of this State or of the United States. Sec. —. Thie term of office of judges of the supreme court, elected after the adoption of this Conlstitutionl shall be nine years, and on the first IVonday of June of the year in which the ~ierm of any of the jud'~es in offce at the adoption of this Constitution or of the juldg - s then elected shall expire, and eavery nine years the~ eafter, there shall be an election for the successor or successors of such judges, in the respective districts wherein the terrm of such judges shall expire. The PRESIDENTr. The doorkeepers amendment. It does not seem to me that it will be satisfactory, either to the cir cuit judges of the State, or to those per sons who desire their removal. It is a compromise between the two, which, it seems to me, will satisfyineither. The circuit judges of the State will be arous ed as a body, in consequenceof a discrimi nation made against them. As I now recollect, there is no other officer or class of officers whose term of office either is or may be, according to the Constitution we are forming, termi nated before its expiration, under the present Constitution. This discrimina. tion, unless there is some very grave rea son for it, is unjust. If there is any rea son for it, the Convention ought at once to provide for the removal and the elec tion of their successors, and not throw the responsibility upon the Legislature. Those persons who desire that the judiciary shall be reformed will not be satisfied with the Convention's throwing the re. sponsibility of that reformation upon a Legislature, which, by all our previous acts, we have shown so much distrust of in all other respects. If it is the design of the Convention to reorganize the circuit courts of the State, let us boldly adopt a provision to that end. Let us take the responsibility of the-removal of the judges thereof. If, upon the contrary, we desire that the present circuit judges shall,erve out their terms of office before any reorganization of the judiciary take~ place, let cs not confer the power of removal upon the Legislature. I apprehend that this amendment will be exceedingly unfortunate, for these reasons: It will encounter the hostility both of the circuit judges and their friends, and likewise the hostility of the men who want them removed, because neither will be satisfied. Those who dcesire the removal of the circuit judges will turn round and say, "Why do you not remove them? The Legislature will Dot do it." The circuit judges will say, "Why discriminate against us as a class, and throw the power of our removal upon the Legislature, when you do not in. vest them with such power with regard to any other officer?" I hope the amendment will not be adopted. Mr. HAY. M4r. President: I would ask the gentleman if he is speaking of the amenldment made by the Committee of the Whole 9 Mwr. SCHOLFIELD. I am speaking particularly o~f these words ill the amsendment —"unltil otherwise provided by law" -vesting the power in the Legislature of detkermininlg by7 law whether circuit courts shall be continued or not. Mr. CHURCHt. Mor. President: I rise to express my concurrenlce in the reasonable remarks mnade by the gentleman from Clark. [Mr. Scholfield].. There should be aconlsistency throughout in thle Constitlt tion we propose to submit, and it must haYe appeared fTom the start that it was not the intention of the Convention to disturb the present offierss of the State. We have made no such provision with refere ~ce to thle execative officers nor the county officers.s It is nlot proposed by this report to do so with the supreme judges. Th ~ why shoul1d we with the circuit judges? It is a matter thnat should in my opinion, b:e left as reported by the Con~. reittee on Judiciary. SECTION 1. The judicial powers, except as in this article is otherwise provided, shall be vested in one supreme court, circuit courts, county courts, justices of the peace, police magistrates, and in such courts as may be created by law in and for cities and ircorporated towns. The courts of record other than cir cu it courts, now existing in the cities of the State, shall be continued, until otherwise provided by law. Mr. UNDERWOOD. Mr. President: It would be competent, I suppose, to amend the amendment? The PRESIDENT. It would be competent. Mr. UNDERWOOD. Mr. President: The committee will bear in mind that in many counties there are county courts with jurisdiction almost equivalent to that of circuit courts. The effect of this section would be to wipe them out, o: leave them in doubt. While I believe it was the intention of W the committee to introduce a new and uniform system of courts, of the same class, as soon as possible, I think it was hardly the ir ide a to wipe out at once these county courts by constitutional provision. If this should be left to the Legislature, as we leave the provision in reference to city courts, the Legislature, in winding up these county courts, could provide that the records and papers could be deposited with other courts, and their judgme-its there enforced, all of which would not be proper in a constitutional provision. Inasmuch, therefore, as we have p- ovided in the report of the Judiciary Committee, that existing courts in the cit'es shall be continued until otherwise provided by law, I suggest that it miight be better to say that "courts of record, other than circuit courts, now existing in the State," shall be continued until o'herw'se provided by law, so as to preserve countyv courts as well as city courts until the Legislature shall make provision as to the dispositio i of their records, judgments and papers. I move to strike out the words "the cities of," so as to read, "existing in the State." The amendment was agreed to. Mr. SCHOLFIELD. Mr. President I doubt exceedingly the policy of the t t 8 s I a a I DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. APP.IL 211 1870. 1393 p 1396 COXSTITLITIONAL COYEXTIO TiIURsAY, as that. I do not know if there are courts other than those of Cook county, where that state of things exists. If there be any other county than Cook county, that has a provision for itself; I would be in favor of striking out the words, "other than circuit courts." If there is any objection made, I would be in favor of striking out in the fourth line, the words "other than circuit courts," and inserting in the fifth line the words "cities of." Mr. BENJAMIN. Mr. President: The section would still contain the words "courts of record.:' Now, if the doctrine of implication is to be resorted to, what would become of the courts ofjustices of the peace? If, by retaining the words "other than circuit courts," the implication arises that the present circuit courts, as presided over by the present judges, shall not be continued, then, by retaining the words "'of record," a similar implication arises with regard to justices of the peace. Mr. FULLER. Mr. President: I would like to call attention to The PRESIDENT. The Convention has already stricken out the words "cities of;" and the object of the gentleman from Kane [Mr. Wheaton] can only be accomplished by first reconsidering that action of the Convention. The Chair cannot, therefore, now entertain the mo tion of the ge-ntleman from Kane [Mr Wheaton]. Mr. WALL. Mr. President: I move to reconsider the vote by which the words "the cities of" were stricken out. I voted for the amendment of the gentleman from St. Clair [Mr. Underwood]. It seems to me that the object he desires to accomplish, is accomplished by section twentytwo: The judges and clerks of county courts, in office at the adoption of this Constitution, shall hold their offices until the expiration of their respective terms, and the county courts now in existence, shall have the same power and jurisdiction they now possess, until the judges and clerks of county courts, provided for Sty this Constitution, shall be elected and qualified. of common pleas there are in the cities, I think the county courts sufficiently that are courts of record, and not circuit protected by section twenty-two. courts, are saved by this provision, until The PRESIDENT. The question is otherwise provided by law,-and that is upon the motion of the gentleman from all there is of it. As it originally read Perry [Mr. Wall] to reconsider the action before the words "in the cities" were of the Convention, by which the words stricken out, on the amendment of the "cities of" were stricken out from the gentleman from St. Clair [Mr. Under- fourth and fifth lines of the report of the wood], there was no earthly question but Committee of the Whole. what it would include city courts, but Mr. UNDERWOOD. Mr. President: would not include circuit courts, because I I presume the object would be quite as it expressly says "other than circuit well accomplished if we said, "the courts courts;" and English language could not now existing shall continue until otherbe made plainer than that. wise provided by law." The county The courts of record, other than circuit courts that are hereinafter provided for, I courts, now existing in the State, shall be take it, are those county courts establishcontinued, until otherwise provided by law. ed by general law-not the county courts Mr. ALLEN, of Crawford. Mr. Presi- established by special act-that conferred dent: Will the gentleman permit me to special and peculiar jurisdiction upon the ask him a question? county courts. Mr. WHIEATON. Certainly, sir. If they are extinguished there should Mr. ALLEN, of Crawford. What is be a provision for their records, judgthe necessity for using the words, "other ments and other papers. than circuit courts?" Mr. FULLER. Mr. President: I Mr. WHEATON. Mr. President: I am would like to call attention to the latter willing to strike that out, since there has clause of the twelfth section of this arbeen a separate article adopted for Cook tidcle. county. I framed these words myself, The PRESIDENT. The question is on thinking that there might be places in the motion to reconsider, and the merits the State where the circuit courts and of the amendment are not before the city courts exist separately. Those words Convention now. The motion is to rewere pat in by myself to save such a case consider the action of the Convention, 1 396 CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION TiiURS-DA-Y) Under the present Constitution, and under the Constitution we propose to submit, it will be competent for the General Assembly to act in regard to judicial circuits, and so equalize them as to meet any defects that mav be felt at -the present time on account of the inequalities of circuits. I did not believe, when this amendment, leaving the term of judges to the Legislature, was adopted, that it would be concurred in by the Convention, and I hope it will not now. Mr. WHEATON. Mr. President: I cannot see exactly the force of the position of the gentleman from Clai-k [Mr. Scholfield.] The amendmentwasadopted by the Committee of the Whole, for the purpose of saving the courts of record in the cities now existing. That is just what it says, and no more. It says nothing whatever with regard to the judges of the circuit courts or their disposition by law; but it says "courts of record, other than circuit courts now existino, in cities." Mr. SCHOLFIELD. The circuit courts not in cities, are courts of record, and by this provision they are continued until otherwise provided by law. I object to leaving the subject of continuance of these courts to be determined by law. I want it made a matter of constitutional enactment. Mr. WHEATON. There is nothiinsaid in this amendment about the judges; but a subsequent section speaks of the term of office of the judges of the circuit courts and other judges. This arnendment simply preserves certain courts unti I otherwise provided by law, to-wit: the courts of record, in cities, that are not circuit courts. It does not leave circuit courts to the merc-.es of the Legislature, because the former portion of the section provides that the judicial power shall be vested in the circuit courts, as well as other courts, and this is only a saving clause, recognizing in the Constitutiou the existence of courts of record, in cities, that are not circuit courts. The courts of common pleas of the cities of Altoia, Elgin, Aurora, or whatever courts of common pleas there are in the cities, that are courts of record, and not circuit courts, are saved bv this provision, until otherwise provided by law,-and that is all there is of it. As it originally read before the words "in the cities" were by which the words "cities of " were stricken out. Mr. FULLER. Mr. President: I think the object sought to be accom,plished, can be better accomplished, by letting that section remain precisely as it now stands, and offering an amendment to the latter clause of the twelfth section. In that provision in relation to circuit courts, it is provided that the terms of efuce of the circuit judges shall be six years, and the present judoes shall hold their o-ffices until otherwise provided by law. Now, it appears to me that if we permit this first section to remain as it now stands amended, and the gentleman makes his motion to auaend the twelfth section, which relates specially to circuit courts, the object sought can be better accomplished than by reconsidering and then amending the first section. Mr. HAYES. Mr. President: Some difference of opinion has arisen in regard to the meaning Of this amendment, on account of the awkwardness of its phraseology. If gentlemen will remember the discussion in the Committee of the Whole, the object was to apply it to courts of record, in and for the cities. Bv transposing the clauses of the amendment its sense \vill be clear, and the objection of the gentleman from Clark [Mr. Scbolfield] and other gentlemen will be obviated. It will read thus. C The courts of record now existing in and for the cities of the State, other than circuit courts, shall be continued until otherwise provided by law. I know that was the intention of the committee, at the time the amendment was adopted in Committee of the Whole. If this amendment should bc amended by strikidg out the words "in the cities," simply, there would be some doubt whether the whole circuit court system would not be continued, as it iaow exists under the Constitution, until the Legislature should determine otherwise. Mr. UNDERWOOD. I submit to the gentleman there could not be room for any such implication, where, in a subsequent section, we expressly provide about circuit courts, their duration and terms of office. Mr. HA.YES. If there is a contradiction between this and subsequent sections, it leads to confusion, and I prefer that we trans ose the clauses in this amend APRIL 21, 1870. DEBATES AXi) ROCEED][NGS. 139w t modify his proposition by the insertion of L one or two additional words, so as to limit ith e operation of the section when it shall , have been adopted, to the cities for which L it was specially intended, so as to make it . read: "The courts of record now existing in all the cities of the State, except Chica go, other than circuit courts." There'is, as it is called the "superior court" and the " recorder's court," I believe, in the city of Chicago, and probably some other courts, which are specially dealt with in that portion of the article relating to the courts of Cook county, but which might be held to be embraced in the provisions of this amendment, if no exception be made. With the addition I suggest to the amendment proposed by the gentleman from Cook [Mr. Hayes], this wilt be strict ly limited to the few cities peculiarly sit uated, for the accomodation of which this amendment was adopted by the Commit tee of the Whole. Mr. HAYES. If the gentleman,wil! permit me, I will' say, I understood the amendment as first adopted, to exclude any court in Chicago by the use of the words "and for." That is the way I have it noted in my copy of the original re port. We have in Chicago no court of record for the city of Chicago. Mr. BROWNING. I thought the su perior court and the recorder's court were. Mr. HAYES. No. They are courts of Cook county. I will accept the sugges tion of the gentleman, by taking the word'"f(-)r," if that covers the point. Mr. WHEATON. Mr. President: There.is no ob ection to that. The word "for," would confine the court to a local jurisdiction. Mr. HAY. Mr. President: Under our present Constitution, the only courts of record that can be constituted other than the named and designated courts provided for in the Consti tution, are courts in and for cities. Now, the reason for the insertion of this provision, has been explained by the gen tleman from Adams [Mr Browning], and it seems to me, that by adopting phrase ology a little different from that of the report of the Committee of the Whole in this last clause, we can get rid of every difficulty. I suggest that the language of it be this, and move it as a substitute: The courts in and for cities in this State shall be continued until otherwise provided by law. Mr. RICE. I think, Mr. President, that we shall best get over this difficultyy by striking out or rejecting the whole of the last clause of this section. The ob. jec~,, as I understand it, of that clause is to preserve the present existing cityr courts, until by some general lasw a system can be adopted that will reduce that class of courts to a system of uniformity in respect to jurisdiction and practice, and the effect of their judgments and decrees, because there is a large amount now of business pending in these city courts, and a sudden abolition of them before some new plan is provided for the transfer ox disposition of their business, would work very great mischief in communities where they exist. This class of city courts is a distinct class, and is so recognized in the article. The reason why} I think, this last clause has become the subject of controversyt is, this reason-as has been suggested. It seems to me we can get at what is wanted by striking out still further the words "of record, other than circuit courts, now existing in," etc., so that it will read, "the courts of the State shall be continued," etc. It seems to me that covers all the ground necessary. Mr. WHEATON. Mr. President: That continues the supreme and circuit courts as at present constituted, until the Legislature changes them. That, I apprehend, was not intended. Mr. SEDGWICK. Mr. President: It seems to me the court still continues. ["Question."] The PRESIDENT. The question is on the motion to reconsider. The motion was agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question now recurs upon striking out the words "in the cities of," in the fourth and fifth lines. Mr. WHEATON. Mr. President: I think the suggestion is a proper one, and the change of phraseology should be made. I move to amend so that it shall read as follows: The courts of record now existing, etc., other than circuit courts, etc., shall be continu ed until otherwise provided. The PRESIDENT. The question recurs upon the motion of the gentleman from St. Clair [Mr. Underwood]. Gentlemen who desire to amend the article, as suggested by the gentleman from Kane [Mr. Wheaton], have simply to vote against the proposition of the gentleman from St. Clair [Mir. Underwood]. It was simply to strike out the words "the cities of." iMr. UNDERWOOD. Mr. President: If it would be proper to amend, I would substitute in place of the words struck oullt, the words "record other than circuit courts" now existing in the cities. So that it shall read, "courts of this State shall continle until otherwise provided." The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the amendment. The amendment offered by Mr. Underwood was not agreed to. Mr. HAYES. Mr. President I move to amend the last clause of the section by transposing the words, so as to read "'the courts of record now existingin the cities of the State, other than circuit courts, shall be continued until otherwise pro t vided by law." Mr. BROWNING. Mr. President:s The object of this amendment was to continue in some few cities in the State, courts which have been created for the accommodation of those cities, and the people in the immediate vicinity who are very remote from the county seats. Upon the representation of the mem- l bers from counties with cities thus situated, it was agreed by the Committee of the Whole to make these exceptional cases, and continue, for the time being, subject to the action of the General Assembly hereafter, the courts now existing in them. If it is the intention of the Convention to conform to the action of the committee, we had better put the provision in as plain and distinct language as possible, and confine it strictly to the localities for the benefit of which it was originally intended. I suggest to the gentleman from Cook [Mr. Hayes] whether he had not better reported from the Committee of the Whole. Mr. HAY. Mr. President: I have tried to get at the diffi(,ulty that has been raised upon the construction of this first section, and with my view of it, it can be made clear without difficulty, by striking out, as suggested by the gen-tleman from Clark [Mr. Seholfield], the words "other than circuit courts." Then there can be no room for misconstruction. Mr. BENJAMIN. If the gentleman would allow me, I would suggest that the words "of record," be also stricken out. The clause would then read: "The courts now existing in the State shall be continued until. otherwise provided by law." This clause is a continuation of the fore part of the section, and would preserve, until otherwise provided by law, the courts not enumerated in the fore part of the section. Mr. HAY. Mr. President: I supposed the first clause of this section naming the courts as they are now named and recognized under the law, necessarily continued those co.:urts. The language does not refer to a supreme court hereafter to be constituted, but the supreme court as now recognized under our law; "shall be vested in circuit courts," does not mean in courts to be created, but in circuit courts now known and recognized. So with the county courts, and justices of the peace Now, with respect to the question raised by the gentleman from St. Clair [Mr. Underwoo)d] it seems that is fully covered by section twenty-two. SEc. 22. The judges and clerks of county courts, in office at the adoption of this Constitution, shall hold their offices until the expiration of their respective terms, and the county courts now in existence shall have the same power and jurisdiction they now possess, until the judges and clerks of county courts, provided for by this Constitution, shall be elected and qualified. County courts under our present system have varied jurisdiction, and under section twenty-two they are continued with that varied jurisdiction. The only object of inserting section twenty-two, as I understoood it, was that, as we had provided insection one and two of this article, that the jurisdiction of courts should be uniform, the necessary effect of such provision would be to repeal the jurisdiction of these county courts, and other courts, where they are not uniform throughout the State, and, therefore, the twenty-second section was inserted to get rid of the question, whether the general provisions making a uniform jurisdiction would not necessarily operate upon the ~present jurisdiction of those courts. The twentysecond section accordingly provides that these courts shall be continued, with whatever jurisdiction they possess. M~r. UNIDERWOOD.- If all courts should be continlued, we could save words by striking out section twenty-two when we reach it. Mr. HAY. Mr. President: That might effect the same object. I am not sure but that it would. Mr. SEDGWICK. Mr. President: I would insquire what words were stricken out? The PRESIDENT. The words, "the cities of," in the fourth and fifth lines of the report of the Committee of the Whole. Mr. SE3DGWYICK. Mr. President: I am opposed to the reconsideralton, for 350 " e e n t e 9 r e t n e e f e e t s e 1 I APRIL 215 1870. DEBATES AND P-ROCEEDINGS. 1397 1398 COSTITUTIONM COYETJON TllUSDAY, The PRESIDENT. The question recurs upon striking out the amendment proposed by the Committee of the Whole, viz: "' courts of record now existing in cities of this State, other than circuit courts, shall be continued until otherwise provided by law," and inserting the substitute proposed by the gentleman from Sangamon [Mr. Hay]. The Secretary will read the amendment proposed by the gentleman from Sangamon. Thile Secretary read the amendment offered by Mr. Hay, as follows: The courts in cities in this State shall be continued until otherwise provided by law. iMr. HAYES. Mr. President: There is one objection to the amendment proposed by the gentleman from Sangamon [Mr. Hay]. It will continue circuit courts and minor courts, that are not courts of record, by a constitutional provision. I do not think that is quite necessary. I think it is better to confine it to the courts of record, as in the original proposition. Will the gentleman from Sangamon [Mr. Hay] accept of that modification? Mr. HAY. Mr. President: Reading it as I supposed it was, it would be courts of record. The PRESIDENT. The Secretary will modify the proposition. Mr. WHEATON. Mr. President: There is another objection, i. e., the use of the words "and for." "Courts of record in cities shall be continued until otherwise provided by law," is sufficient; for the reason that there are some of them that have, to a certain extent, more than a local jurisdiction, in the way of sending process out of the cities. The words "and for" would be a substantial reduction of their power by this Constitution, making them local in their jurisdiction, not only as to subject matters arisinig in the cities, but also as to sending process out of the cities. It seems to me that there ought not to be any disposition in the Convention to limit the present powers of the courts, but to continue them, as at present existing, until otherwise provided by law. Such was the disposition of the Convention when in the Committee of the Whole. Unless there is some good reason for change now, and some reasons why those people who live at a distance from the county seats, where the business of their respective counties are, should not have the same facilities for doing their law business, as they had before the meeting of this body, I move to strike out the wo,rss I have referred to. For fear that the substitute should be adopted, I desire that it should be first corrected. I move to strike out the words "and for. " The motion was agreed to. s The PRESIDENT. The question is on striking out and inserting the substitute, as amended. The Secretary read the substitute, as amended, as fol lows: Courts of record in cities of this State, shall be continued until otherwise provided by law. Mr. TURNER. Mr. President: Irise to move that the question be taken separately on striking out. While in Committee of the Whole I took occasion to give my views in regard to these little courts which have sprung up all over the State, and which are now costing the people thousands of dollars. I was then, as I am now, in favor of wiping them all out by a constitutional provision. tha t the plan the the Judiciary Committ e e was cha ng ed by an amendment, and has left the clause in an awkward position. I f th e clause is left, only striking out "cities of," or the words " other than circuit court s," so that it will read that t he courts of record "shfall be continued until otherwise provided by law," I submit if it does not leave the Legislature discretion as to whether they will ever give effect to the other provisions of this Constitution in respect to the judicial system of the State; because if it is left in that shape, all the existing courts-the entire system-will exist until the Legislature, in their discretion, shall choose to change or adopt it; and this section would thus be, in my j udcgment, repugnant to other sections of this judiciary article. The whole difficulty is, to my mind, met easily and simply by striking out the whole of this clause, and substituting for it the proposition offered by the gentleman from Sangamon [Mr. Hay], which is, that the courts in the cities of the State shall be continued until otherwise provided by law, so that in respect to all other courts full effect will be properly given to the other sections of this article. I am satisfied that the purpose of that clause was none other than to preserve the city courts until some uniform system of city courts should be provided, but being in)jected into other matter, it makes the whole very awkward, and, has led, I think, to all this confusion. I would in~quire of the gentleman from Clark [Mr. Scholfield], who made the first motion, if it would not suit his judgment and understanding, if the latter clause of the first section should be stricken out, and the proposition of the gentleman from Sanga~mon [Mr. Hay] substituted, that the courts in and for cities of this State, shall be continued-leaving the article perfect, in respect to all other courts. Mr. SCH(OLFIELD. That would be entirely satisfactory to me. The only thing I object to is the recognition of the idea that the circuit courts of this State may be continued or terminated by action of the Legislature. Mr. RICE. I think that is a good objection, and I am afraid that striking out those words would give the Legislature the power either to continue our present system or abolish it. Mr. WPELLS. Mr. President: I move to amend the amendment, by striking out ill this section all after the words a"judicial power," and inserting the followings The Secretary read the amendment offered by Mr. Wells, as follows: Strike out and insert, so as to read as followvs: "The judicial power of the State shall be wrested in one supreme court, in circuit courts,in county courts, and in justices of the peace, and such~ courts of uniformn organiz,lion and jurisdiction as may be created by general law." The PRESIDENT. The amendment is objectionable in this particular: It is not an amendment to the amendment proposed by the gentleman from (Cook [Mr. Hayes], and it is, besides, an amendmenlt to the section, and not to the amenldment proposed by the Commnittee of the Whole. It can be entertained hereafter, of course. The question is upon transposing the words "other than circuit courts, and inserting them after the word "'State." The motion was agreed to. The courts of record in and for cities in this State shall be continued with their present powers and jurisdiction until otherwise provided by law. The PRESIDENT. It is not in order at present. Mr. RICE. I supposed so, but I shall offer it if the other proposition is not acceptable. The PRESIDENT. The question is on the motion to strike out and insert the substitute of the gentleman from Sangamort [Mr. Hay]. A division is called for. The yeas and nays were demanded, but not ordered. Mr. CARY. Mr. President: What are the portions to be stricken out? The PRESIDENT. The motion is to strike out the latter clause of section one: The courts of record other than criminal courts now existing in the cities of the State, shall be continued until otherwise provided by law. And insert the substitute proposed by the gentleman from Sangamon [Mi. Hay]. The question now is upon strikirng out, a division of the question having been called for. A division was ordered. The Convention divided, when, there being thirty in the affirmative and twenty-six in the negative, the motion was agreed to. Mr. PARKS. Sir. President: I hope the amendment of the gentleman from Sangamon [Mr. Hay] wil be adopted. CONSTITUTIONAI, CONVENTION TiiuRSDAY, I IUD 9 8 I am in fdvor of strikidg out this latter clause. I am not in favor of inserting -ythi!g iii its place. It will not be nec. essary, in order to have the judicial business of the country carried on, to inseit anything in itf, place; but if atiythi ig is to be inserted after the clause has been stricken out, I desire to have it cod.fined to a certain time. If these courts are to be continued at all, let us continue them -%ith a provision that they will some time or other expire. We all know how these courts are established. the member froi-n a particular locality introduces his bill in the General Assembly, and asks that he may have a court established. He is asked by other memi-)ers, if it affects any other locality. He says "no." )Iembers pay no further attention to it. The bill is passed, and the State is saddled with the expense of a court costing as much as a circuit court, when, in fact, the entire business of the, court does not amount to the salary paid by the State. I illustrate by CitiDg the case of the city court of Amboy. I have heard, since I went home, that the whole amount of judgments over one hundred dollars, recovered in tl-tat court will not pay the salary paid by the State to the judge. Why should the people be saddled with such enormous amounts -ts are now being paid to these little courts, while they are groaning under the heavy burdens of taxation? I hope the clause will be stricken out. I sball vote for that, if the question can be divided upon striking out and iiiserting. Mr. RICE. I have a substitute which I wish to have read for information. It is offered in place of the proposition of the gentleman from SaDgamoii [.Alr. Ilay], as amended by the gentleman from Kane [i'4r. Wheaton]. The Secretary read the substitute proposed by Mr. Rice, as fo-Ilows: APRIL 21, 1870. DIBATES AND ~OCEEDIGS. 1399 continued or established, in cities of ten thousand inhabitants, I shall not object to it. Mr. WHEATON. Mr. President: I do not desire to do that. There were cer tain members on this floor who wanted courts in cities of less than that numberr of inhabitants, and the Convention has already provided such courts in cities and incorporated towns, as may be created. Of course, I do not take upon my shoulders the fight against any other lo calities. I simnply insist that cities which do the business I have suggested, and which have courts already existing, should not be deprived of them. There was an evident intention on the part of the Committee of the Whole to save those very courts, and I am opposed, Mr. President, to now striking out such a provision from this section and leaving it to the Schedule Committee to report it or not, as they choose. The best way in the world to kill any attempt to save those courts, is to strike it out of this ar ticle and leave it to the tender mercies of the Schedule Committee. Now, if this Convention is disposed to array these places against the Constitution, it can do so by this interference with their privi leges, for in that case there will be a choice between two evils, and the least will be chosen. They will vote against the Constitution because their interests are better subserved under the old re gime. Now, for one, I do not desire to array the hostility of large sections againt this Constitution. The gentlemen from Cook county argued that they require special provisions, and I was not disposed to dis pute them, though there may be opposi tion from other portions of the State to specially legislating for them. I desire that the members of this Conventionshall accord to those portions of the State, whose interests also require attention, the special consideration which they need that they may have something similar to the povision inserted in the Committee of the Whole. The substitute reaches what I ask for. Mr. PARKS. Mr. President The PRESIDENT. The gentleman from Logan [Mr. Parks] has once addressed the Convention, in reply to the gentleman from Cook [vIr. Hayes]. Mr. PARKS. I do not want to make a speech-only a suggestion. The PRESIDENT. A suggestion is always an argument. It is the duty of the Chair to enforce the rule. Mr. ATKINS. Mr. President: I suppose it would be decidedly convenient if we could devise such a judiciary system as would bring a court to every man's door and every man's fireside. According to the arguments advanced by some gentlemen, we would attain perfection by a judicial system which would bring first a justice's court, and then some other court, to every man's door, and make them migratory, going from one house to another dispensing justice. The arguments of some gentle. smen seem to be based on that idea. If there is one thing more than another that the people of the State of Illinois desire, and that calls for action, in refer t enece to our judicial system, it is that the courts should be uniform in- organization and jurisdiction. We should establish courts of general and uniform jurisdication for the whole State, sufficient in APRIL 21, 18-70. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1399 While we have the power here to save the courts in these cities, we should do number and in the number of their judges, and so arrai-iged and constituted that justice!nay be equally, promptly, impartially administered in all the coun ties of the State. I do not suppose, and do not now be lieve that it is or was the desire or ex pectation of the people (or that the pol icy will ever meet their approval) to establish, in addition to such courts, a special, irregular, iiico.Dgruous and ex ceptioiial system of local courts outside of general courts of uniform jurisdiction. But, Mr. President, I have for some time almost despaired, from the tone and temper of this Convention, and the ac tion already taken oil the judiciary sys tem In the Committee of the Whole, of the proposed plan ever MeetiDg the ap proval or the wants of the people. On the,, first day of the discussion on this article in Committee of the Whole, three or four amendments to the first section, tending to destroy the uniformity of the proposed courts, were proposed. Then the members of the Judiciary Committee commenced the work of destroying their own offspridg, by offeridg CODfliCtii3g amendments, tending to mar and destroy the harmony of the whole system devised by them. This has gone on until the original report, after passing through the Committee of the Whole, can scarcely be recognized by those who got it up after such long labor and tribulation. Now, what is proposed by gentlemen in the same direction? it is virtually assumed, by these amendments, that courts of uniform and general jurisdiction, adapted to the demands of the people and the administration of justice, have not been provided for, thus ignoring them, and treating the proposed system of courts as inadequate and insufficient for the publicueeds, in advance. Next we are asked to adopt what is in the nature of a system of special legislatioia, for creating or coiitinuidg local courts in towns and cities of small population, where they are not needed. We cannot expect a successful and satisfa(,tory system of courts of uniform and general jurisdiction throughout the State, if, at ti-ie same time that we establish that system, we simultaneously attempt to establish with it or on it, as'a sort of judicial "rider," a series of s ecial irre u SO. I am particularly opposed to the prop osition of the gentleman from Cook [iNIr. Haye., —] to strike out the last clause of the first section, and leave these city courts to the tender mercies of the Committee on Schedule. That committee may net act upon the sul-)ject at all-the stroiig probability is that, unless they are par ticularly instructed, they will do nothing about it. It is very important that these courts should be preserved. There are -a num ber of them situated like that in Et Paso, in Woodford county, that it would be wrong to strike down in this way for the reasons that I gave when this subject was up before, and which I will not repeat now. If the clause saving them is out of place here, as the gentleman from Cook [,Nlr. Hayes] suggests, it will be very easy for tl-ie Committee on Revision and Adjustmeiat, of which the gentlemen from K;-tne [,Nlr. Wheaton], Cook [illr. Hayes] and myself, all happen to be members, to arrt,,,jge that.. But let all those who wish to preserve these citv courts make sure of them now while th(; subject is before us and under our control. Mr. WHEATON. Did the Chair entertain my amendment? The PRESIDENT. The amendment was adopte. Mr. WIIEA.TON. Mr. President: I desire to say one word. The PRESIDENT. The gentleman is not in order. The Chair was en-a,,iged in putting a question which has ben -di-;ided. I'tie first part of the question has been disposed of. Mr. TURNER. Mr. President,, I am inclined -o think that where a motion has been divided, and the motion to strike out has been carried, the que,tion of what sball be inserted is a new question, and a subject of debate. The PRESIDENT. The Chair is in error. It is competent to debate the question until the negative voices have been oiveii. The question is*ipon inserting the substitute of the gentleman from Sa-,igamon rMr. Hay]. Mr. WfltATON. Mr. PresideDt: The gentleman from Stephenson [Mr. Turner] has spoken of big courts and little courts. I know not how it is with the courts with which he is connected, but as regards the court of common pleas in Au 140 COS1UTOA COY-I HRDY single idea, and while I, for one, am in favor of maintaining the integrity and the grade and character of the circuit courts, yet when I come to look at the action of this Convention, and the Comnit te e of the Whole, it occurs to me that there must be something done in order to give facilities to the people to do their legal business. It will be remembered that a short time ago we had under consideration the question of the removal of county seats,and that when that was under consideration in Committee of the Whole, it was determined that no county seat that had been located twenty years, should be removed, in any event, unless it could receive a vote of twothirds (f the county, however re - mote it might be from the center of business. That seemed to me to be an effort of the Commnittee of the Whole, to fasten an arbitrary rule upon the liberties of the people in that respect. If is well known that county seats were located at an early time, when there were few inbabitants in many of the counties. Yet by reason of vested rights, etc., the committee has determnined that though the centers have changed, they shall not, for the reason that they have been located twenty years, be removed, unless by a two-thirds vote. This is all against sound policy, and against the rights of the people, and, so far as the vote is concerned, it is against the popular opinion of republican form of government. Another innovation is here attempted to be fastened upon the rights of the people; that is, that no judicial circuit shall contain less than one hundred thousand inhabitants. That is contrary to the genius of government, and the rights of the citizen. Let it be based upon the business and the population of the counties. Let me tell gentlemen that when they fasten that kind of an iron rule upon the rights of the people, they m,ist give some margin by which these judicial services can be obtained. While I was opposed to these municipalities having courts prior to the adoption of these measures by this Convention, I am now in favor of giving to these centers of business in the various counties, where the community cannot possess a county seat, a municipal court that will give the people in these localities the right of doing their judicial business. I will take the county of DeKalb, if you please. In the southern part of that coucuty there is a large population, much larger than Sycamore, the county seat, which must now travel twenty-six miles to the county seat to do its business. I am in favor of giving to such localities the privilege of organizing just such courts as they want. If we must adopt these iron rules, and fasten these bands upon the people, I am in favor of giving all these gentlemen courts that will give them the facilities of doing business at home, for I see no rnason why they should not be permitted to do their business at home under these circumstances. Mr. RICE. Mr. President: I wish to offer the following amendment: The courts of record in and for cities in this State, shall be continued, with their present powers and jurisdiction, until otherwise provided by law. Th Te proposition of the gentleman from Sangamon [Mr. Hay], as amended the cou rts com e to, or be at, their ow n doors, and if they cannot have the courts come to their own doors, Of course they prefer them to come to, or be located in, their own neighborhoods, or their own towns or cities. Of course the gentlemen of the bar and litigants in Aurora prefer to do their business at home in their local city court, rather than to go over to Elgin or to Geneva, the county seat, and transact it. And other persons residing in Elgin, as a matter of course, prefer to do their legal business in the Elgin local court, rather than to go to Aurora or Geneva for that purpose. How can it be expected that the circuit court of Kane county will ever get public support and transact the main part of the county judicial business, if these various local courts in the towns and cities of eight thousand and ten thousand inhabitants are always to exist and be perpetuated by us? The circuit court of Kane county manifestly never can get the control of the important and heavy business of the county, if this system is continued of providing a special court for Aurora and Elgin, and every place of four thousand, eight thousand or ten thousand people in a county. Take the county of LaSalle for an illus3tration. It has a large number of quite flourishing towns and cities, such as Ottawa, Peru, LaSalle, Mendota, and perhaps others. How long would the circuit court of LaSalle county have muah business to transact of a general character if a special court were provided for every one of these towns and cities? As a matter of course the people and the members of the bar would prefer to do their legal business in their own towns. If we are going to create a special court for every little town or every city that wants one, because it is more convenient, or because the place is remote from the county seat, then we may as well abandon at once all attempts to form a uniform and harmonious system of courts for the administration of the laws, as impracticable, and provide that the Legislature shall provide for just as many of these local courts as are wanted, and that the expenses of each and every one of them shall be paid out of the State treasury. The only way that we can act consistently on this subject is upon the principle that all counties should be treated alike, that the people of every county should have a fixed place to transact their legal business in the courts, and that place hould be the county seat of the county vhich is in law and theory its local capi.al. That is the theory upon which we must act to be consistent. When we de,oart from that doctrine, an-d decide that ')ecause the people of a certain town or wity live fifteen, or twenty, or twenty-five ~files away from' the county seat —the 9unty capital —and hence findd It mlcon. enient to go there to transact their bulst' .ess in the courts, the fact of the exist ace of a county seat is to be ignored, and hley must have a local court to accommoiate them, there will be no end to the mumber of such courts that will spring 1p, and that will nearly defeat the objects o~f thle circuit courts. Mr. McCOY. Mr. President: I desire~ to occupy a very limited portion of the time of the Convention in presenting two or three ideas upon this subject. This question does not exactw bear upon a CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION Tii-URSDAYI 1400 by the gentleman from Kane [Mr. Wbeaton], struck out the words, "and for cities," leavirg it "courts of record in cities." It will be perceived that all courts of record, without reference to class, that happen to be in cities, are embraced within this proposition as it stands, when the real purpose is to continue the city courts only. The reason, as I understand, why the gentleman from Kane [Mr. Wheaton] of. fered that amendment, was that some of these courts bad jurisdiction beyond the cities, and sent out process to any point in the - district where the city was; and that the proposition as offered by the gentleman from Sangamon [Mr. Hay] would not continue those courts, if their jt,.risdiction were limited to the city. The amendment will read as a wh,)Ie, in connection with the pending proposition The courts of record in and for the cities of this State shall be continued with their present powers and jurisdiction until otherwise providtd by law. Mr. WHEATON. Mr. President: That is satisfactory to me. Mr. RICE. Mr. President: Then it will preserve the city courts with the same powers, character and jurisdiction, as they now have, until the Legislature shall change them. Mr. UNDERWOOD. Mr. President: I wish to make a verbal alteration. In the county of St. Clair, at East St. Louis, i.-i a city court that has jurisdiction to the amount of eight hundred dollars. Will the gentleman allow that little court, which is not a court of record, to continue in existence until otherwise provided by law? The city of East St. Louis has seven or eight thousand inhabitants, is -a great deal'iarger, and has a great deal more business than those little cities of three or four thousand inhabitants, which have courts of record. If the gentleman will leave the words "courts ofreeord" out, it will save this as well as other city courts in existence. Mr. RTC-'. Mr. President: I will not endanger t e proposition by leaving that g.ap for the sake of one court. If in the schedule there is a separate proposition, we can preserve any court. Mr. UNDERWOOD. Mr. President: Why should my city be worse off than API 21 80 EAE t ~CEIG.10 counties of Lake, Cook, Will, Kankakee and DuPage. Mr. WALL. Mr. President: I will inquire whether it is in order now to move to amend the substitute, inserted in Committee of the Whole? The PRESIDENT. It is in order to Taove an amendment. Mr. WALL. I move to amend the substitute by striking the words "and Clinton" out of the seventh line, and inserting them before the word "Madison," in the eighth line. I object to the amendment of the Committee of the Whole, putting Clinton county in the second district instead of the first; and with the permission of the Convention, I will state a fact or two in explanation. A committee was appointed by the Convention to report seven election districts, and equalize the three divisions. The committee agreed upon and reported the districts, I believe, unanimously, and without any difficulty whatever, except that there was some little disagreement as to which district Clinton county should be placed in, it not being known exactly where the judge, resident in the first grand division, preferred it to be. The committee finally agreed that Clinton county should be placed in the second district, with the understanding that it should remain there until after the recess, which was soon to commence, and that if it should be found to be the wish of Judge Breese that Clinton county should be placed in the first district, it should be done. Several other members of the committee, myself included, who were parties to that understandirg, went away in a day or two, and when the report came up in Committee of the Whole, and in our absence, without any explanation, and contrary to this understanding, Clinton county was placed in the lower district, instead of the second. The circumstances under which it was done have led some persons to suppose it was against the wishes of some of the members of the committee. I desire to say that it was the distinct understanding that no change should be made until after the recess; but that if it should be ascertained that the change ought to be made, that the members of the committee would all agree to it. So far as I am aware, there is no difficulty in respect to the population of the second district. The population is about right. We cannot make the districts exactly alike. They are near enough alike as originally reported by the committee. As to the wishes of Judge Breese, I know that it is not material to him which distrierct he is in. I know of no reason personal to any one, why the change should be made; and in order to carry out the views of the committee, I have made the motion. The report of the committee, as originally agreed upon, left the first district with all the counties, as they now appear in the report, except Clinton county. Mr. CARY. What county does the gentleman propose to put in the first district, if Clinton be transferred to the second district? Mr. WALL. I understand all that is necessary is to place Clinton in the second district. This will make it agree with the report of the committee. Mr. WENDLING. Mr. President: I hope the Convention will not make the change. And I indulge that hope for rea At the election held for the adoption or rejection of this Constitution, the electors of the several divisions shall elect judges of the supreme court, as follows: Two in the northern division, whose terms of office shall expire on the first Monday of June, 1873, at which time,and every twelve years thereafter, three judges of said court shall be elected. One in the central division, whose term of office shall expire on the first Monday of June 1876, at whichtime and every twelve years thereafter, two judges of said court shall be elected. One in the southern division, whose term of office shall expire on the first Monday of June, 1879, at which time, and every twelve years thereafter, two judges of said court shall be eiected. The PRESIDENT. The Secretary will read the substitute inserted in Committee of the Whole. The Secretary read the substitute, as follows: The State, until otherwise provided by law, shall be divided into seven districts for the election of judges, as follows: First District-To be composed of the coun. ties of St. Clair, Washington, Jefferson, Wayne, Edwards, Wabash, White, HIamilton, Franklin, Perry, Randolph, Monroe, Jackson, Williamson, Saline, Gallatin, liardin, Pope, Union, Johnson, Alexander, Pulaski, Massac and Clinton. Second District-To be composed of the counties of Madison, Bond, Marion, Clay, Richland, Lawrence, Crawford, Jasper, Effingham, Fayette, Montgomery, Macoupin, Shelby, Cumberland, Clark, Greene, Jersey, Calhoun and Christian. ~ Third District-To be composed of the counties of Sangamon, Macon, Logan, DeWitt, Piatt, Douglas, Champaign,Vermilion, McLean, Livingston, Ford, Iroquois, Coles, Edgar, Moultrie and Tazewell. Foburth -District-To be composed of the counties of Fulton, McDonough, Hancock, Schuyler, Brown, Adams, Pike, Mason, Menard, Morgan, Cass and Scott. ...- Fifth District-To be composed of the counties of Knox, Warren, Henderson, Mercer, Henry, Stark, Peoria, Marshall, Putnam, Bureau, LaSalle, Grundy and Woodford. Sixth Di,strict-To be composed of the counties of Whiteside, Carroll, JoDaviess, Ste-henson, Winnebago, Boone, Mcetenry, Kane, lendall, DeKalb, Lee, Ogle and Rock Island. And the ,Seventh District-To be composed of tle 851 DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. APRIL 21, 1870. 1401 upon the motion of the -entleman from Clinton [Mr. Buxton]. The motion was agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon concurring with the report of tlje Comn-iittee of the Whole, as amended in Convention. The motion was agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the amendment proposed,in Committee of the Whole, to the fourth section, to insert after the word "divisions" in the second line, the words "at the several places iiow'provided for holding the same therein," and it will be declared adopted. The second amendment to the fourth section of the report of the standing committee provides for the striking out from the seventh line, all after the word "changed," and it will be declared concurred in. The question is upon the amendment reported to the fifth section, to insert after "be" in the first line,the words "preserved and be;" strike out after "denominated" the words III)Y locality;" to insert after llnE)rthern," in the second line, the words "until otherwise provided by law;" and the amendment will be declared concurred in. The fourth amendment to the section is to strike out after the -second line, the language which the Secretary will read. The Secretary read the portion of the report of the standing comniittee, stricken out, as follows: sons which I will endeavor to briefly state. I think every gentleman here will at once concede the fairness of this adjustment of counties, as reported from the Committee of the Whole to the Convention, an(I when the Convention hear one or two reasons I desire to offer, I think it will agree with me in desiring to retain the present arrangement. This arrangement, as it now stands, is one ia which the people of the district I represent, ard the people of many of the adj oinin'g districts feet a deep interest. We feel that interest for the reasons and motives that have probably actuated gentlemen on the opposite side who have manifested an interest in the question. Now, sir, as reported by the Coi-nmittee of the Whole, the provisions are perfectly fair and just.in respect to the proportion of population in the districts, and in regard to the political sentiments of the people of these districts which the comn,iittee had in view. But, sir, there will be held in June next an election of supreme judge in that part of the grand division of the State which I refer to. At that election will doubtless be elected (and we all hope he will be elected), the distinguished member of the supreme bench, who now occupies a place so high in the esteem and regard, not only of his section, but of the entire State. I refer to Chief Justice Breese. His election may be regarded as a certainty, as the entire circuit is in his favor. Now, I desire to call attention to this fact, that the election of the judge will take place before the adoption of the Con - stitution, and gentlemen sent here from the first district will unite in his election, together with some very few counties in the second distric'.. What follows then? This election will be held without any reference to the Constitution we are framiDg. Judge Breese will represent that first district entire, anda small portion of the second, while the remainder of the second, by virtue of Clinton county haviDg been attached to the second district, witl be disfranchised. It is manifestly UDjU$t to the second district. Mr. WALL. Mr. President: Will the gentleman name the counties in the sec. ond district which are not embraced in the first grand division? Mr. WENDLING. Mr. President: I 0CON STITUTIONAL CONVENTiON tains almost the requisite population. I am told that Judge Breese, himself, is en tirely satisfied; that he prefers being in the second district. I am told that he has written letters to that effect. The report as made, was agreed to, unanimously. If we are to change it in that particular, because some gentlemen are displeased, we may change it in other particulars. It was regarded as equitable and fair, giving, at the time, as it was supposed, our republican friends four judges, and the democrats three judges. It was arranged to the entire satisfaction, so far as I was informed at the time, or have since been informed, of every memTber of the committee, and I hope this Convention will adhere to the original action -of the committee, and let Clinton county stay where it was placed, in the second district. Mr. FOX. Mr. President: I would like to ask the gentleman a question. I would like to know what the objection is to allowing Clinton county to remain in the first district? Mr. ALLEN, of Alexander. I do not know whether the gentleman will con sider it as an answer or not, but I will ask the gentleman what is the objection to letting it remain in the second district, where it was originally placed? There is where the committee placed it, and the committee have never been dissatisfied with their own action, so far as I have heard. I support the motion of the gentleman from Perry [Mr. Wall], from no other consideration in the world than fairness and justice. Mr. FOX. The Committee of the Whole placed it in the first. Mr. ALLEN, of Alexander. That is so; but in the absence of some of the committee who considered the matter first. Mr. RICE. Mr. President: I wish to submit a few suggestions upon this question, and according to my recollection of the history of the report. Certainly the only committee that have agreed upon the location of the county of Clinton, in respect to whether it should belong to the first or second election division, is the Committee of the Whole. The report of the special committee, of which the gentleman from Cook [Mr. Medill] was chairman, and which was appointed to report these divisions, I think shows that the committee were equally divided as to whether the county of Clinton should go to the first or second division, although on an estimate of the population it was counted as belonging to the second. The committee stated, and so did the gentleman from Fulton [Mr. Ross], that such was the fact, and the location of the county of Clinton in the first rather than in the second division, was made upon a motion of the gen-' tleman from Fulton [Mr. Ross], who was himself a member of the committee that made the report upon these electoral diC visions. tMr. WALL. Mr. President: I would like to ask the gentleman from Montgomery [Mr. Rice] how many members were present when the change was made in Committee of the Whole? Mr. RICE. As many as have been present on a great many other occasions when important matters have been disposed of. I did not take the census of the Convention. I think there was a very general concurrence in the motion I Tl:iuRSDAY 1402 I appeal to gentlemen from other portions f the State, who have no direct or personal intereqt in this question, to sim. ply govern their votes in this matter by the principle of fairness and justice. Mr. ALLEN, of Alexander. Mr. President: I hope the motion will prevail. We all recollect that there was some disagreement in Committee of the Whole, when the judiciary article was under consideration before it, as to whether the three grand divisions should be adhered to, or seven divisions for the election of judges provided in their stead. The committee was appointed by the President to report on the two plans. They were selected -from various parts of the State, and agreed on a report creating seven districts, Clinton county being placed in the second district. Subsequently, I believe, on the motion of the honorable gentleman from Fulton [Mr. Ross], when there were very few from the southern portion of the State present, Clinton county was placed in the first district. The gentlemen from Clark [Afr. Scholfield], from Perry [Mr. Wallj, and from Clinton [Mr. Buxton], I believe, members of that committee, were not then present in the Convention. I do not know that any member of the committee fri)m the southern part of the State'which, under this report, would be the first district, was present. Without argument, as I am told, the Committee of the Whole detached the county of Clinton from the second, and placed it in the first district. So far as Judge Breese is concerned, almost every one, irrespective of'party, favors his re-election. That is true, in reference to all the present members of the supreme court, as far as I know. There seems to be a universal desire for them to serve out their present terms respectively, and, when the time for re-election comes around, to re-elect them. I do not think any man would complain of being disfranchised, becauie of Judge Breese being the supreme judge for his district. I appeal to the gentleman from Shelby [Mr. WendliDg] whether he would feel disfranchised by the ,election of Judge Breese.' Mr. WENDLING. In response to the appeal of the honorable gentleman, I Will say that, if We have no voice in the elec c reese v of the gentleman from Fulton [Mr. Ross]. I admit that the gentleman from Perry [Mr. Wall] was not here, and that the gentleman from Alexander [Mr. Allen] was not here, but I do not know as anybody is responsible for that. The question is whether what the Committee of the Whole has done is right or not. Now, the gentleman from Shelby [Mr. Wendliing] has presented what I consider the real claims that he has, and that all have in that region of the State for sustainii3g the report of the Committee of the Whole. It is true that the co —inty of Macoupin, one of the largest interior counties of the State, as well as the counties of Montgomery and Christian, both of which I represent upon this floor, ar-d the county of Shelby, another very large county, and the counties extending east, including the county of Clark, and I believe Coles, and perhaps, Cumberland, Moultrie, commencing with the eastern side of -Greene county, and including a belt of counties alOD9 the line of the Terrp. Haute,tnd St. Louis railroad, are not included in the lower grand division which elects a judge under the present Constitution, the first Monday in June. The gentleman from Perry [Mr. Wall] and the gentleman from Alexander [Mr. Allen], live in that division, and have their choice in the selection of a judge, whose term when elected, is preserved for nine years, under the provisions of the new Constitution. They can elect Judge Breese, or any other gentleman, if they have one they like better, but, I should, myself, of course, if I had a vote, no matter where Judge Breese lived, vote for him, for a seat on the supreme bench. Now, what the gentleman from Perry [Mr. Wall] proposes, is that after they have had a vote for one supreme judge in June (and this, Constitution areserves his term of office for nine ye rs), they shall, when this Constitution is submitted, the latter part of the summer probably, participate iu the choice of a second supreme judge, Nvhile my people, and the people of those counties that I have just mentioned, are, as the gentleman from Shelby [Mr. WendliDg] well said, actually disfranchised for nine years; that is to say, we have one vote in about twenty years, and the gentleman from, Perry [Mr. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. grand district, and my recollection and understanding is that it was thought better to have the Convention settle that question; so that while we informally placed Clinton in the first district, we did not unanimously agree to do it. I doubt whether remanding this matter to the committee will accomplish the desired purpose. I think the Convention is more competent to settle the controversy than the committee. I am, therefore, opposed to remitting this matter to that committee. Mr. KING. Mr. President: Imove to lay the motion of the gentleman from Clinton [Mr. Buxton], on the table. The PRESIDENT. That is not in or der. Both motions are secondary. Mr. WALL. Mr. President: The chair man of the committee has stated that he did not understand the committee to be unanimous as to those two districts. I be lieve I stated I understood that it was unanimous. I did so understand, and I know that was the case on the only occa sion on which I was present. On Friday evening, when the committee arranged all these divisions, the mat ter was discussed very thoroughly, and the committee did unanimously agree to what has been reported. with the understanding that the arrangement then proposed should stand until after the recess. And that was the only evening I was present when there was much discussion about the matter. Mr. CUiMMINGS. Mr. President: I hope the motion to recommit will not prevail. I do not understand that the committee has more power than the Convention. It matters not what the subject is, the Convention has power to change the action of any committee, and they decided this forenoon that the county of Clinton should remain as it is now in this report. To say nothing about the merits of the case, it seems to me the question really is, whether the committee has more power than the Convention? I hope the motion will not prevail. Mr. HAY. Mr. President: My recollectionx is, that on the evening on which the committee took the only action on this subject that was taken when they were all together, the proposition to attach Clinton county to the second district was put to vote, when it stood four for, and three against it, my friend from Clinton [Mr. Buxton], and another member of the committee, not voting, so that there was not a majority of the committee voting to attach Clinton to the second district. The gentleman from Clinton [Mr. Buxton] at the time was rather, as I understood him, against the proposition to attach it to the second district, but desired further time. It was understood that lhe was opposed to it. My recollection is the more d'stinc~t upon that, because I voted with the gentleman from Perry [Mr. Wall] to attach it to the second district. My recollection, however, is that it was understood that, so far as the impressions of the whole committee were concerned, there was a majority against that action; but at the request of the gentleman from Clinlton [Mir. Buxton], it was understood that the action of the committee should be only provisional, and that there was not a mlajority of the whole committee, so far as there was any expression, for attaching Clinton county to the second distrit; Tbe motion was agreed to. So the Convention at (twelve o'clock and twenty minutes) adjourned. been adopted which allows any gentleman to mov e th e previous question, either upon t ede nto the amendent or the main question. The main quedti,)n is the concurrence with the amendment proposed to the fifth section, namely, the substitute. The pending amendment is the proposition of the gentleman from Perry [Mr. Wall]. Does the gentleman desire the previous question upon that? Mr. TINCHER. I will withdraw it, then. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the amendment proposed by the gentleman from Perry [Mr. Wall]. Mr. CARY. Mr. President: I move to amend the amendment offered by the gentleman from Perry [Mr. Wall], so as to equalize this thing a little, by adding to the second district, besides Clinton, the counties of Jefferson and Wayne, and to transfer Madison and Bond from the second district to the first. Mr. WALL. Mr. President: I move to lay the amendment on the table. The motion to lay the amendment offered by Mr. Cary on the table, was agreed to. Mr. CUMMINGS. Mr. President: I move to lay the amendment proposed by the gentleman from Perry [Mr. Wall] on the table. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the motion to lay the amendment of the gentleman from Perry [Mr. Wall] on the table. Mr. BUXTON. Mr. President: Will not the gentleman from Fulton [Mr. Cummings] withdraw that motion for the purpose of having this re-committed to the committee? Mr. CUMMINGS. I decline to-withdraw the motion. The question being on the motion of Mr. Cummings to lay the amendment':i offered by Mr. Wall upon the table, the yeas and nays were ordered; and, being taken, resulted —yeas 41, nays 18-as follows: RECEPTION OF LIEUTENANT GENERAL SHERIDAN. uoMr. CAMERON offered the following resolution, which was read by the Secretary and agreed to: WHEREAS, Lieutenant General Sheridan, of the United States Army, and staff, are expected to reach this city this evening upon a visit, .Resolved, That a courteous invitation be extended to these distinguished officers to visit this Convention, and occupy seats upon the floor of this Convention chamber. .Resolved, That a committee of three be appointed to wait upon General Sheridan on his arrival, and inform him of the action of this Convention. JUD) ICIARY DEPARTMENT. Mr. BUXTON. Mr. President: I be-e lieve the question in regard to this section, providing for seven districts in the State, can be disposed of with more facility by referring it back to the special committee that reported them, and I move it be referred back to that committee. Mr. WENDLING. Mr. President: I would like to hear some of the reasons for this. I will state that this section has been through the hands of that committee once, and also through the Committee of the Whole. I can see no necessity for recommitting it, but perhaps if I am enlightened, I may possibly support the motion. Mr. BUXTON. Mr. President: I will state that when that committee were together, they unanimously agreed upon the report as they made it to the Convenrion. I understand it was changed in Committee of the Whole, when there were but two or three members of that committee present. There is a good deal of dissatisfaction upon the part of some of the members in regard to the action of the Committee of the Whole. I think that if the matter is referred back to the committee, it can be canvassed and reported upon in such a manner as to settle the question without occupy ng the time of the Convention. If it is settled in the Convention, it will certainly occupy considerable time. The friends of the different sides of the question of the location of some of these counties are very anxious that the matter be referred back to the committee. As a matter of course, it is understood by every body that other questions besides the mere locality of a particular county are included in this question, and a committee have far better facilities for properly determining them than we have in the Convention. Mr. MIEDILL. Mr. President: I wish to correct the gentleman in one regard. The c(ommittee, according to my recollection, were not unanimous as regards the grand district to which Clinton county should be attached. I think the gentleman himself [Mr. Buxton] had not his mind made up. The committee are quite undecided as to whether the county in which Judge Breeee resides (Clinton), should be placed in the second or first YEA.S. Goodell, Goodhue, Hankins, Har t, Harwoo d, Hay, Hildrup, Merriam, Moore, Neece, Parker, Parks, Perley, Peirce, A, aYS. Cameron, Snyder, Coolbaugh, Turner, Cross, Wall, Dement, Washburn, Haines of Cook,Wells, Medill, I Wilson-18. ABSENT, OR NOT VOTING. Brown, Hanna, Scholfield, Bryan, Hayes, Sedgwick Cody, King, Skinner, Craig, McCoy, Truesdale, Ellis, McDowell, Tubbs, English, Pillsbury, Wheaton, Gamble, Robinson, Wright Haines of Lake,Ross, Mr. President-24. So the motion of Mr. Cum ming%, to lay on the table the amendment offered by Mr. Wall, was agreed to. . ADJOURNMENT. Mr. ARCHER. Mr. President: I move that the Convention do now adjourn. -r I t r c t I t t APRIL 21) 1870. 1403 AFTERNO ON SESSION. THU-RSDAY, April 21,1-870. The Convention met at two o'clock P. m., and was called to order by the President. Abbott, Archer, Atkins, Bayue, Benjamin, Bromwell, Brow.aiing, Cary, Church, Cummings, Eldredge, Forman, Fox, Fullqr, Poage, Rice, Sharp, Sherrill, Springer, Sutherland, Tincher, I Underwood, Vandeventer, Wazner, Wait, Wendling, Whiting 41. Allen, ofalex. Allen of Crfd., Anderson, Anthony, Bowman, Buxton, l4~(1~TTTOA CNETO HRDY thing that he desires, so far as throwing any obstacle in his way is concerned. As I said before, it was not a question as to what individuals want, but it is a question as to what are the rights of the voting people of this State. And I appeal to the conscience of th)is Convention, whether the people in the first of the seven election districts, as reported by this committee, shall elect a judge in June, and turn him over to another tier of counties and elect a second judge, while several hundreds of thousands of the population of the State are denied any voice in the election of a judge at -11 for nine years. I appeal to the conscience and judgment and sense of justice of this Convention, to know whether that question i te-quires any further debate. The result will be that the counties in that first division will have a choice of two supreme judges this present year. Thile PRESIDENT. The Chair will state that the motion does not involve the merits of the subject. The motion is to recommit, and is only debatable within a very narrow range. Mr. RICE. Mr. President: I was presenting these views, with due deference-and if I am out of order, I yieldas a reason why the motion to re-commit should not be favorably received by this Convention. If I am not in order in giving reasons why it shculd not be received, I will add nothing more than what I I have already said. I think the Convention now understands the merits of the question. Mr. ARCHER. Mr. President: I move the previous question. The PRESIDENT. The previous question is not applicable to a secondary maotion. Mr. UNDERWOOD. Mr. President: The judges of the supreme court, no matter by whom they are elected, are the judges of the whole State. I care not what district or part of a district elects such a man as Judge Breese, for I am quite sure that his particular locality or district will have no influence upon the judge elected or his decisions. It is well known that I, at first, favored the idea of having three grand divisions in the State, with the view of getting better material. Since, however, the seven districts have been formed, I am quite sure that we can get as good material in our part of the State, as we i could, perhaps, under three districts. With Judge_Breese in our district, I have no doubt that most persons therein would be satisfied. Now, whatever his preference may be, my wish is, that our district may not be annoyed by another election, after next June, for a judge of the supreme court, at the same time we vote on the Constitution. I have signed a a request, with many others, of bothom liticat parties, asking Judge Breese to be a candidate for re-election; and if he is then elected in out division, it will be satisfactory lo our people. In the adjoining district, as made, is abundant material for a supreme court t judge; and I am willing to leave the mat: ter to the people of tnat district, especia lly as many of the counties therein are not in the southern grand division. The ' great object is to get the very best material we cau. Without saying anything . of other men who reside in our district, I I have no idea that any man could be elected that would give the same satis I I e r e t t f e e 0 s n f e 0 e n e d s CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION THURSD.&Y, 1404: faction that Judge Breese would, from his emineft powers and long judicial services. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the motion of the gentleman from Clinton [Mr. Buxton], to com;-,ait the amendment of the gentleman from Sangamon [Air. Hay] to a special committee. A division was ordered. The Convention divided, when, there being twenty-four in the affirmative and thirty-four in the negative, the motion was nc-t agreed to. Mr. HAINES, of Cook. Mr. President: I move to strike out the recommendation of the Committee of the Whole, and insert section five of the report of the Committee on Judiciary, with the equalized divisions as recommended by the committee in their report-that is, to divide the State into three election districts instead of seven. I have been told, whether correctly or not I cannot say, that some, at least, of these seven districts which have been made, were created for the purpose of giving certain men places upon the supreme bench.'Now, I did not suppose that we were elected and sent here for anv purpose of that kind. We were elected and sent here for the purpose of making a Constitution for the State-we were not sent here to make places for anybody. My reasons for making this motion are, that the people of the State have become accustomed to these grand divisions, and that distribution gives a larger territory from which to choose men for the supreme bedch of the State than was recommended by the Committee of the Whole. If there is any place which requires the highest talent, it is the supreme beiach, and we ought'to have the largest territory from which to. elect the supreme judge,,, I tried to get this section adopted in Committee of the Whole, but it was voted down, and I move it now. Mr. CARY. Mr. President: I move to lay the amendmentof the gentleman from Cook [Mr. Haines] upon the table. Mr. HAINES, of Cook. Mr. President: I call fof the yeas and nays. The PRESIDENT. The motion of the gentleman from Cook [Mr. Hainesl ito strike out the amendment of the gentleman from Sangamon [Mr. Hay], and but there was am -aj ority of those votid gfour to three-two not voting. Mr. WALL. Was it not unanimously agreed that it sh(,uld be placed there. for the time be-.ing, and until after the recess? 4 Mr. HY. There was a sort of understanding that the report would not be presented until after the recess; but, contrary to expectatiod, the progress made on the judiciary article required that we should make an earlier report on the subject than was first contemplated, and in that view it was thought advisable to present this section in the form in which it was reported. Mr. BUXTON. Mr. President The PRESIDENT. The Chair will say that, under the rules, as the gentleman has addressed the Convention once on this subject, he must be limited to a mere statement of matters of fact. Mr. BUXTON. I was probably too broad in my -tssertion that the committee were unanimous in this report. I think the gentleman from Sangamon [Mr. Hay] is correet. The report was aereed upon to stand until after the recess. At that time I was decidedly of the opinion that Judge Breese would prefer to be in the southern district, but I have since learned that he would prefer that Clinton county should be in the district as reported by the committee, instead of as amended by the Committee of the Whole. I do not wish to make any argumeiit or further statement in regard to the matter. Mr. RICE. Mr. President: I had hoped that when the Committee of the Whole had considered this question, and had once settled it by a decisive vote, so far as the Committee of the Whole can decide, and when the same question was considered in Convention and settled in the same wav by what seemed a very de cisive vote-more than two-thirds of those present-this question -would be considered at rest.- and I am at a loss to understand what public interest is to be subserved, that induces the gentleman from Perry [Ivlr. Wall] and others, to be so persistent in seeking to undo the ac tion of the Committee of the Whole, and of this Convention, and again get this matter in the hands of the special com mittee. go. Now, as to the question of the preferences of Judoe Breese-and no gentleman in Illinois respects him or appreciates his exalted attainments and virtues more than I-this cannot affect him, as lie is now a candidate in the lower grand division under the present Constitution, and has, according to a letter before me, -accepted a nomination there, so that his election can not be afff —cted by the location of that county; nor does he have to change his residence in consequence. I know Judge Breese is too modest a man to undertake to dictate to the Convention what district he shall be assigned to, if elected. It neither affects h,s residence, his personal comfort, nor his election, and I have no doubt he is ready to concede to any gentleman in this Convention any-, APRIL 21, 1870. DEBATES AD PROCEEDINGS. 1405 therefore, it would probably be better, as suggested by the gentleman from Adams [Mr. Browning], and from Sangamon [Mr. Hay], for the Convention to non concur with the action of the Committee of the Whole, in striking out the section, that it may be left in its proper place in the report, subject to amendment, pro viding the amount of compensation to be allowed to judges, and the manner in which the compensation is to be paid. As I understand now, there is no provis ion in the report touching the compensa tion of the judges, but there will have to be some provision some where in the re port, on that subject. I The PRESIDENT. The question is upon concurring with the Committee of the Whole, by which the seventh section was stricken out. The report of the Committee of the Whole, striking out section seven of the report of the Judiciary Committee, was not agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the amendments to the tenth sec tion. Mr. BROWNING. Mr. President: Is it not competent to amend the section? The PRESIDENT. It is not, as it is the section reported by the standing com mittee. When the section comes up for adoption, it will be competent to amend it. The Convention is now merely pass ing upon the amendments reported by the Committee of the Whole. The question will then recur upon the sections in their order. The question is upon the tenth section. The first amendment proposed by the Committee of the Whole consists in striking out the first line. The Secretary will read the words stricken out. The Secretary read the words stricken out by the Committee of the Whole in the first line of section ten, as follows: At the time of the election for representatives in the General Assembly. The PRESIDENT. The amendment will be declared concurred in. The second amendment is in the fifth line; after the word "provided," the words "by law" to be inserted. And it will be declared concurred in. The next amendment is to the eleventh section and in the fifth line thereof, and consists in inserting between the words "all" and "cases," the words "criminal cases and." And the amendment is concurredt in. Thle nest amendment is in the fifth line: after the word "freehold,>' the words "or the validity of a statute." And the amenldmlent is concur red in. The next amerdment is to the eighth line: after the word'law," the words "provided said judges shall not receive as:y additional comnpensation for such services." The amendment is concurred in. So the motion of Mr. Cary to lay upon the table the amendment offered by Mr. Haines, of Cook, was agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon concurrence with the Committee of the Whole in the substitute reported to a part of section five, and it will be agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The next ques tion is upon the amendment reported by the Committee of the Whole by which section seven was stricken out and a sub stitute inserted. The Secretary read section seven as reported by the Committee of the Whole as follows: SEc. 7. From and after the adoption of this Constitution, the judges of the supreme court shall receive the same compensation, payable quarterly, now allowed by law, until otherwise provided by the General Assembly. And the section as reported by the standing committee, as follows: SEC. 7. From and after the adoption of this Constitution, and until otherwise pro vided, the judges of the supreme court shall receive the compensation now allowed by law. Mr. BROWNING. Mr. President: I wish to inquire if it is competent to amend the section, as it originally stood? The PRESIDENT. The Chair is of opinion that it is not competent to move an amendment to the original section, the section having been stricken out in Conimittee of the Whole. It is probable that the object can be attained by offer. ing an additional section at the conclu. sion of the article. Mr. BROWNING. Mr. President: I think it will be better, then, for the Convention to non-concur in that amendment, but retain the section, as reported by the Judiciary Committee, and insert in it the compensation, which, in the judgment of the Convention, may be proper for the supreme judges, until their salary shall -be adjusted by law-just as we have done in regard to the circuit judges. Mr. HAY. Mr. President: I hope the Convention will not concur with the action of the Committee of the Whole, in striking out that section, bat that tlahe section reported by the Judiciary Committee will be permitted to stand. I think that is the best form in which we can leave that subject. But if there are those EA in thine Caonvention who think we had better fix the sum by fixing the salary, if that is the sense of the Convention, that amendment can be made, so that both the friends of the measure, as it was reported from the Judiciary Committee, allowing the judges, until the question of their salary shall be fixed by the Legislature, to receive the compensation they are now receiving, under the law, can vote for it, and also the friends of the proposition to fix definitely, in the Constitution, what they ame to receive. hMr. ARCHER. Mr. President: If the Convention concur now with the Committee of the Whole in the action it took in striking out this section, some other and additional section must necessarily be adopted by the Convention. There is no provision or section in this report as it now stands, that I know of, that provides for the salaries or compensation of judges of the supreme court at all. There will have to be a section inserted at this particular part of the report; or, it appears to rme the better way, there niust be an additional section providing salaries. I think, The Secreta y read section five of the re pora of the c ommitt ee, together with the report of the speci al committee in regard to the division of the State into three g r and divisions, as follows: SEc. 5. The present grand divisions shall be denominated by locality: southern, cen tral and northern. At the election held for the adoption or rejection of this Constitution, the electors of the several divisions shall elect judges of the supreme court, as follows: Two in the northern division, whose terms of office shall expire on the first Monday of June, 1873 at wh ich time, a nd every twelve ye ars the re after, three judges of said court shall be elect ed. One in t,he central division, whose term of office shall expire on the first Monday of June, 1876, at which time, and every twelve years thereafter, two judges of said court shall be elected. One in the southern division whose term of office shall expire on the first Monday of June, 1879, at which time, and every twelve years thereafter, two judges of said court shall be elected. The first grand division to consist of the counties of Alexander, Bond, Calhoun, Clay, Clinton, Crawford, Edwards, Effingham, Fayette, Franklin, Gallatin, Hamilton, Hardin, Jackson, Jasper, Jefferson, Jersey, Johnson: Lawrence, Madison, Marion, Massac, Monroe, Perry, Pope, Pulaski, Randolph, Richland, Saline, St. Clair, Union, Wabash, Washington, Wayne, White, Williamson, Clark, Cumberland, Greene, Macoupin, Montgomery,and Shelby, with a population of 609,722. The second grand division to consist of the counties of Adams, Brown, Cass, Champaign, Christian, Coles, DeWitt, Douglas, Edgar, Ford, Fulton, Hancock, Logan, Macon, Mason, McDonough, McLean, Menard, Morgan, Moultrie, Piatt, Pike, Sangamon, Schuyler, Scott, Vermilion, Iroquois, Livingston, and Tazewell, with a population of 616,783. The third grand division to consist of the counties of Boone, Bureau, Carroll, Cook, DeKalb, DuiPage, Grundy, Henderson, Henry, JoDaviess, Kane, Kankakee, Kendall, -Knox, Lake, LaSalle, Lee,- Marshall, Mcltenry, Mer cer, Ogle, Peoria, Putnam, Rock Island, Stark, Stephenson, Warren, Whiteside, Will, Winnebago, and Woodford, with a population of 916,170. The PRESIDEz,-T. The motion of the gentleman from Cook rMr. Haines], is to strike out the substitute reported by the Committee of the Whole, and relating to seven grand districts, and insert the fifth section of the report of the standing committee, with so much of the report of the special committee as relates to three grand divisions; and the ques. tion is upon the motiontto lay the amendment on the table. The yeas and nays were ordered, and, being taken, resulted-yeas, 46, nays, 17 -as follows: YEAS. Anthony, Hankins, Scholfield, A rcher, Hart, Sedgwick, Payne, Harwood, Sharp, Benjamlin, Hday, Sherrill, Promwell, Ilildrup, Sutherland, Craig, fling, Tin cher, CShurch, Medill, Tubbs, Cary, Merriam, Underwood, Cross, Moore, Vandevenlter, Cumwmings, lNeece, Wagner, Eldredzre, Parker, Wait, Forman, Parks, Wall, Fuller, Perley, Wells, Gamble, Peirce, Wendling, Goodell, Rice, Whitinlg —6.. Goodhue, NAYS. Abbott, Coolbaugh, ~McCoy, A nderson, Dement, Snyder, Bowman, Ellis, Turner, Browning, Fox, 5Vashbulrn, Buxton, Haines of Cook, Wilson-17^ Cameron, Hayes, ABSENT OR N~OT VOTING. Allen, of Alex. H~aines of LakeSkinner, Allen of Crfd. Hanna, Springer, Atkins, McDowell, Truesdale, Bro wn, Pillsbury, Wheaton, Bryan, Poage,- Wright, C ody, Robinson, Mr. Presiden~t-20. ~nglish, Ross, 52 The next amendment is to the twelfth section. The Secretary read section twelve, as follows: Sic. 12. The circuit courts shall have original jurisdiction of all causes in law and equity, and such appellate jurisdiction as is or may be provided by law, and shall hold two or more terms each year in every county The terms of office of judges of circuit courts shall be six years, and the present judges shall hold their offices until otherwise provided by law. The PRESIDENT. The amendment consists in striking out from the fifth i/ae APP.IL 21, 1870. DEBA-TES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1405 1406 CONSTITUTIONAL COYETiON THURSDAY, I now, create new circuits and provide for the election of their successors at an early day. If any change is made at all, that ought to be our action, but if we do not propose to do that, it seems to me it is ) unwise to leave it to the Legislature to a make the change or not, as they may see - fit. I know, Mr. President, that this provision has given very considerable dissat isfaction to a number of circuit judges (not in my portion of the State, but in [ other portions). I know that it will give more dissatisfaction. It ought to give dissatisfaction. It is an invidious dis crimination against a class officers who ~ are worthy and meritorious, and regard ed so bv the public. ; I am opposed to the amendment made ' by the Committee of the Whole, and I hope the Convention will either non con' cur with the amendments made by the Committee of the Whole, or else go at the matter radically, turn out the judges at once, and provide for the election of their successors at an early day. Mr. BROWNING. Mr. President: I do not design to make a speech; in fact, I have no right to do so. I concur fully in all that has been said by the gentle man from Clark [Mr. Scholfield], and would accept his amendment by which he proposes to strike out a portion of the amendment offered by myself, if I thoug ht that would be the better way. But I deem it best to let the Convention vote upon it. I prefer the original section to the one adopted by the Committee of the Whole. Mr. MEDILL. Mr. President: The gentleman from Clark [Mr. Scholfield] refers to the opposition that the section, in its present form, may array against the Constitution in various partf of the State. I rise to remark, merely, that he must make an exception of the county of Cook, because, in the section adopted in regard to Cook county judiciary matters, it is distinctly provided that all the present judges shall remain in office until their terms expire. When a different rule was adopted in Committee of the Whole, in regard to the judges in another portion of the State, I thought it very curious. But it was their business and not mine, and I voted with the majority. We did not, however, adopt that rule in regard to Cook county, and I think the Ipresent judges, in all the circuits, should be allowed to continue in office until their terms expire —in other words, why make ans exception to the Cook county rule? The reasons for con. tinuing the judges of Cook county, apply equally to all the other judges in The PRESIDENT. The question is upon ~he amendment of the gentleman from Clark [Mr. Scholfield], to strike out the words'until1 otherwise provided by The motion was agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the substitute proposed by the gentleman from Whiteside [Mr. McCoy], to the proposition of the gentleman from Adams, [Mr. Browning]. The Secretary read the substitute offered by Mr. McCoy, as follows: the present i ncum bents are not good judges, it also is equally true th at in s ome of the countie s the present county judges are not goo d men, the p resent circuit clerks are no t g ood me n, the p rese nt sheriffs are not good men-but we d o not presume to t o u ch a single one of t hem. We tou ch an important class of men, influen tial in cons equence o f the position they occupy, as well as of t a e ir learning and their ability, and arra ign theom and all their friends against the Constitution, for t he e reason that we unjustly make a discrimination against them. If there is any reason showing corresponding ben e fits, I mreig h t be reconciled to the adoption of the cour se, but I cannot conceive of any. Even conceding that there are circuit judges that ought to be got rid of, it does not meet the question. We do not attempt to touch anybody except til e circuit judges. We propose to d o th is indirectly an d in such manner a s to incur the hostility of the circuit judges and the ir friends, while at the same time not e nli sting the s upport and sympath y of t h ose who desire them toh be turned out. Mr. CUMMINGS. Mr. President: If the gentleman from Adams [Mr. Browning], and the gentleman from Clark [Mr. Scholfield], will compare section twelve of the report of the Judiciary Committee with section twelve of the report of the Committee of the Whole, they will see that the amendments offered in the Committee of the Whole were the words "otherwise provided' by law," and the words stricken out in the fifth line, "the expiration of the term of office for which they were elected." If the Convention refuse to concur in the amendment proposed by the Committee of the Whole, they will have the section as it was reported by the Committee on the Judiciary. If it, then, should require any amendment, itcan be amended when we go through section by section. It would save time not to concur in the recommendation of the Committee of the Whole. For my part, I think the section as reportcd by the Judiciary Committee, far better than the amended one fromt the Committee of the Wnole. If we have no desire to turn the circuit judges out of office, the section as reported by the Judiciary Committee ought to suit us. If we do want to turn them out, let us do it in so many words. Let us take the responsibility ourselves. Do not let us shift it on the Legislature or any other power, but let us do it fairly, manly and openly. As far as I am concerned, I am opposed to turning out, and in favor of retaining them in office for the period for which they were elected. Mr. McCOY. Mr. President: I move to strike out the amendment to the amendment, and insert in place of the amendment, after the word "until," so as to have it read, "the judges shall hold their offices until the expiration of the terms for which they were elected, and until their successors shall be elected and qualified." taMr. WALL. Mr. President: I am inclined to think that if the Convention take any action at all with regard to the circuit judges, it ought to take decisive action. W~e ought wither to treat the circulit judges as we have treated all other (>fcers, permitting them to remain in of-] rfice until the expiration of their terms, or else we ought to terminate their offices ofve r o o thereport of the standing commit tee, the words "the expiration of the terms for which they were elected," and inserting the words "otherwise provided by law." Mr. BROWNING. Mr. President: I wish to offer an amendment to the amendment, the propriety of which will, perhaps, strike the members of the Convention when their attention is called to it. It escaped my own observation when we were in Committee of the Whole. As the section now stands with the amendments of the Committee of thu Whole, it provides that The terms of office of judges of circuit courts shall be six years, and the present judges shall hold their offices until otherwise provided by law. If the Legislature does not choose to make any provision on the subject, the present judges will continue to hold their offices during life. I propose to amend by inserting after the word "until," the words " the expiration of the terms for which they were respectively elected, unless." Mr. SCHOLFIELD. Mr. President: I move to amend the amendment of the gentleman from Adams [Mr. Browning] by striking out the words "until other wise provided by law." The clause would then read, as amended, "the present judges shall hold their offices until the expiration of the terms for which they were respectively elected." In considering the first section of the judiciary article this morning, I took occasion to express fully the views I entertain in regard to the principle embodied in the words which I now seek to have stricken out of this section. I do not believe, sir, it will meet with the approbation of the people of the State to make an exception of the office of circuit judge, and provide that the continuance in office of the judges shall be at the will of the Legislature. As I remarked, in speaking upon the first section this mornilg, the circuit judges and their friends will be exceedingly hostile to a movement of this kind, because a discrimination is made against them which is not made against any other officers. At the same time those persons who desire that the circuit courts should be re-organized at once and new judges elected, will not be satisfied, for the reason that the matter is left in uncertainty, to be determined by the action of a future Legislature. It the principle is right that circuit judges should be turned out and new circuits formed and new judges elected, let us say s~ at once and provide for the re-organization of the entire system throughout the State. Ill every act that we ~nave done} from the first day of our session to the present time, Mwe have shown our distrust of the Legislature. In even the most trivial and insignificant matters, the feeling h as been manifested by the action of this Convention, that the Legislature is not to be trusted; and yet it is now proposed by this section, to confer upon it the discretionary right either to continue in office twenty-nine judges, or to, without assigning any reason for it at all, at once turn them out. This action is not, as it seems to me cons;_stent with the former action of this Convention. I do not believe there is any reason why a discrimination should be nade against circuit iudges. While it may be readily concede'd, for the purpose of argument, that in somof the circuits t t i i t r CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENT-'ION 1406 THup.SDAY, Strike out all after the word "until,)) in fourth line, and insert "the e-xpirltion of the terms for which they were elected, and until thq*r successors shall be elected and quali. Ified.'? 0 *rL~,1~.DBTSADPOEDNS 140 stitution which says that all appeals shall go to the county court, will be treated with contempt, and litigants will be clam orous for appeals directly to the circuit court; they will demand an increase of the circuit courts in order to get in their appeals. In most of the counties, the justices of the peace are superior or at least equal in intelligence to the county judge. In my county we have had always honest men for county judges, but within a stone's throw of the court house, we have all the time had a justice, or justices of the peace, who had much more experi ence, and in whose judgment the people placed much more confidence than in that of the county judge. In the small coun ties we feel that our justices of the peace are equal to the county judges, audit will not do to make the appeals from these justices to thecounty courts-a court not superior in integrity or ability, and much more expensive. In the small counties filled with such judges as now fill the county courts, we must elevate the character of this court by selecting better men by grouping more counties together, and letting them collectively support a better court. They w ill elect a better judge, the court will have dignity, and the people more respect for it. We should begin at the bottom of this judiciary system and woi k upwards, in stead of beginning at the top with the supreme and circuit courts and working downwards. Get the little courts to suit us first, and then let us talk about circuit courts. Mr. UNDERWOOD. Mr. President: I wish to correct an error into which the gentleman from DeWitt [Mr. Moore] seems to have fallen. Appeals do not go from justices of the peace to the county court, unless a majority of the people of the county vote for the extended jurisdic tion. I am quite sure it will strengthen the Constitution, anid be more in confor mity with the principles of right, if we strike out this restriction of one hundred thousand in circuits. Now, whether we have one or more extra judges than is necessary, is a matter of minor importance. We bad better have too many than too few to transact the judicial business of the State. The motion of Mr. Scholfield, to postpone, was agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is now upon the amendment proposed to section fourteen by the Committee of the Whole. The Secretary read the amendment proposed by the Committee of the Whole, as follows: Strike out all after the word "county," in the fourth line, and insert the following: "The election for judges of the circuit courts shall be held on the first Monday in June next succeeding the creation of new circuits under this Constitution, and every six years thereafter." The amendment proposed by the Committee of the Whole to section fourteen, was agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is now upon the amendment proposed by the Committee of the Whole, to section fifteen. The Secretary read the amendment proposed by the Committee of the Whole, as follows: Insert after the word "territory," in the second line, the words, "in lieu of the cir cuits provided for in section thi r tee n " Mr. McCOY. Mr. President: I move to postpone further consideration of the amendment until the section in regard to county courts is disposed of. The motion to postpone was agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the amendments to the sixteenth section. The first amendment is in strik ing out the words "the compensation now provided by law, until otherwise provid ed," and inserting "salary of three thou sand dollars per annum, payable quarter ly, until otherwise provided by law." Mr. HAY. Mr. President: I call for a vote on this amendment. I call for the reading of the original section, and the amendment reported by the committee. The Secretary read section sixteen, as reported by the standing committee, to gether with the amendment to the second line, as follows: [Section sixteen as reported by the standing committee.] SEC. 16. From and after the adoption of this Constitution, judges of the circuit court shall receive the compensation now allowed by law, until otherwise provided. And after their salaries shall be fixed by law, they shall not be increased or diminished during the term for which said judges shall be respectively elected, and no judge of any court shall receive any other compensation, perquisite or benefit, in any form whatsoever, nor perform any other than judicial duties to which may belong any emoluments. A clerk of the circuit court, a sheriff and a coroner shall be elected in each county. [Amendment offered by the Committee of the Whole.] Strike out the the words "The compensation now provided by law, until otherwise provided," in second line, and insert: "A salary of three thousand dollars per annum, payable quarterly, until otherwise provided by law." The PRESIDENT. The question is upon concurrence with the amendment. The amendment to the second line of the sixteenth section, as reported from the Committee of the Whole, was agreed to. The eubstitute was not agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the amendment proposed by the gentleman from Adams [Mr. Browning.] The Secretary read the amendment of fered by Mr. Browning, as follows: Add after the word "until," in fourth line, the following: "the expiration of the terms for which they were respectively elected, un less otherwise provided by law.' Mr. DE MENT. Mr. President: I rise to make an inquiry (I was not here when the Committee of the Whole amended this section,) as to whether it is now the proper time to propose an amendment which may be inserted in the third line of the section as it now stands? The PRESIDENT. It is not in order. After the Convention shall have acted upon the section proposed by the Com mittee of the Whole, the question will be put upon each section in its order. After that, any amendment is competent and proper. The amendment, as amended upon the motion of the gentleman from Adams [Mr. Browning] will be declared con curred in. The next question is on the thirteenth section, and consists in striking out from the first line the words, "exclu sive of the county of Cook," and will be declared concurred in. Mr. HAYES. I do not see that there is any reason for that amendment. I think, subsequently to its passage in Com mittee of the Whole, the committee yield ed the point contained in the amendment by adopting a separate judicial organiza tion for the county of Cook. I hope the amendment will not be concurred ind un less there is some reason for it that does not occuir to me at present. Mr. CUMMINGS. Mr. President: I hope the Convention will concur in the amendment of the committee. It will not prevent or interfere in the least with the' sections appertaining immediately to Cook county, and I would much prefer to have the recommendation of the Committee of the Whole concurred in. If I thought it would interfere with any of her rights or privileges, or would do an injustice, I would have no anxiety in relat;ion to the concurrence. I hope the Convention will concur in the recommendation of the Committee of the Whole. Mr. SCHOLFIELD. Mr. President: I move to postpone the further considerawtion of section thirteen, until the article relating to county courts shall have been acted upon. I do so for the reason —as will be apparent to all the members of thee Convention, upon a little re fiection — thlat until we shall have determined the character of the county court we expect to adopt, it is impossible to sav whether the restriction as to a population of one hundred thousand is a proper one or not. I think the wisdom of postponement is so obvious treat it is useless to take u pan further time in argument. 7 Mr. PARKS. I do not think it would make much difference, as regards the jurisidiction of county courts. I should be rather disposed to go on with this section now. Mr. MOORE. Mr. President: I hope the motion to postpone will prevail. I think we should regulate the mnatter of county courts and courts of common pleas before we adopt this section. If we have no court of common pleas, I will say to this Convention, that in all the small counties, that clause in the Con T e aNT the PRESIDET. T he nques tion is upon concurrence with the second proposed amendment to the sixteenth sec tion: insert in the fourth line after the word "and," the words "from and after the adoption of this Constitution;" and unless objection is made it will be concurred in. The next amendment is to strike out the seventh line, and it will be declared concurred in. The next amendment is to the eighteenth section. Mr. DEMENT. Mr. President: Before we pass from section sixteen I wish to propose a further amendment to the report of the Committee of the Whole; but I am not partial to considering it now, rather than when we consider the article by sections. I propose to add the following, as additional to the section: SEC. 16. The General Assembly, at its first session after the adoption of this Constitu. tion, shall provide fbr the payment of a docket fee in each civil suit which may be commenced in each of the county and circuit courts in this State, to be paid into the State treasury, to constitute a fund for the pay of the salaries of the county and circuit judges and county and State attorneys. The PRESIDENT. The-Chair is in. clined to regard the amendment rather as an amendment to the section, than to any amendment reported by the Committee of the Whole, although it has great doubts whether it might not be properly received, to be inserted in place of matteqr I APRIL 211 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1407 140 COSIUI-LC~YNINTlRD It will be observed that the distinction between the section substituted by the Committee of the Whole and that reported by the standing committee is, that, the section proposed by the Committee of the Whole refers this question of increased jurisdiction in the county court to a vote o, f the people, while the section reported by the st- nding committee confers it. Now it appears to me, Mr. President, that the whole section, from the sixth line, as substituted by the Committee of the Whole, as far as the increased jurisdiction is concerned, might as well be entirely stricken out, if we do not intend to confer this jurisdiction upon the county courts, without a reference of this question to the people, th rough the recommendation of the board of county commissioners or the board of supervi sors. I venture to say that, if this Constitution should be adopted, and should last a quarter of a century, this provision will remain a dead letter in the Constitution, and this question will never be submitted to the people. Indeed, Mr. President, if submitted to the people at all, it isa question a of a character not calculated to eicit public interest, or to bring out the votes of the people. It is a question which I think this Convention ought definitely to settle, either one way or the other, by its own action, without shirking this responsibility upon a board of supervisors or the county board —either confer the jurisdiction at once, or absolutely refuse to take any action in regard to it, for I am satisfied that this provision referring this question of jurisdiction to the people, amounts to nothing, if adopted. Now, I offered in Committee of the Whole the reasons why I favored the increase of the jurisdiction of the county courts, and I am averse to repeating in Convention any remarks I have before made, because I think it would be an unnecessary consumption of time. I can only say that I believe this section, as reported by the standing committee, in conferring this jurisdiction upon county courts, provided a means by which the circuit courts could be relieved of an immense amount of business which only stood in the way of other more importan t business of the circuit courts, and which could, in all thie counties of this State, be as well performed by the county courts. juFor these reasons, Mr. President, I hope the Convention will not concur in the action of the Committee of the Whole in striking out the section reported by the standing committee, or that portion of it, and substituting that which has been read. I think we should take definite action, either one way or the other, upon this question; not incorporate into the Constitution a useless and valueless provision destined forever to remain, even if adopt ed, a dead letter. Mr. SEDGWICK. Mr. President: I offer the following amendment to the report of the Committee of the Whole: Strike out all of the section after the word "assessments," in the sixth line, and insert "and such other jurisdiction as may be provided for by general law." Mr. SCHOLFIELD. Mr. President: Would a substitute for the entire section ybe in order now 7 The PRESIDENT. A substitute is in order. s Mr. SCHOLFIELD. I then offer a substitute for the entire section, which I wilt read for the information of the Convention. SEC. -. There shall be established, instead of the existing county courts, in each of the counties of this State, a court to be called the "court of common pleas." Said court shall be a Court of r ecord, and s hall have original jurisdiction in all matters of probate, settlement of estates of deceased persons, appointment of guardians, and conservators, and the settlement of their accounts; in all matters relating to apprentices; in proceedings for the collection of taxes and assessments, and such criminal and further civil jurisdiction as may be prescribed by law. SEC. —. Judges of said courts shall be elected from districts to be composed of one or more counties, and shall hold their offices for the term of four years, and until their successors shall be elected and qualified. SEC. —. The clerks of the county courts shall be ex-olfcio clerks of the courts of common pleas. SEC. —. Judges of said court shall receive such compensation, not exceeding $2,500, for their services, as may be prescribed by law, to be paid out of the county treasuries of the several counties, and from docket fees in civil cases. SEC. -. There shall be at least four terms of said court held in each county annually. No grand juries shall be called or impanneled in said court, but offenses less than felonies shall be prosecuted therein, in such manner as shall be provided by law. Mr. MEDILL. Would it be in order to offer another amendment to the section? The PRESIDENT. An amendment to the amendment of the gentleman from DeKalb [Mr. Sedgwick] would be in order. Mr. MEDILL. I will read it for the information of the Convention, and the Chair will determine whether it would be an amendment to the amendment offered by the gentleman from DeKalb [Mr. Sedgwick]. I propose to add after the second line the following words: But the General Assembly may create districts of two or more counties, in each of which shall be elected one judge, who shall take the place and exercise all the powers and jurisdiction of county judges in such districts. The PRESIDENT. The amendment is not now in order, as it is an amendment to the section, and not to the amendment. The question is upon the amendment proposed by the gentlem~sm fromn De~alb [Mr. SedgwfickJ. The Secretary read the amendment offeted by Mr. Sedgw~ick, as follows: Strike out all after the word "assessments" in the sixth line, and insert the follow^ing: 'And such other jurisdiction as may be provided by general law." The amenedmenlt offered by I~.~r. Sedgwick was agreed to. Mr. MEDILL. MIr. President: I will now offer the amendmenlt which I previously read. The object of it is to obviate the objection which was so strenuously urged when the section was considered in Committee of the Whole a few weeks ago. I recollect that the sharpest criticisms made uponl the section were on the point that it compelled every county, however small in population and business, to sustain a county judge, and the objection, in my mind, seemed to be pretty well taken. I drew the amendment at the time and submitted it to the inspection of several mlembers opposing the section chiefly for the reason stated, who that is stricken out. Still the Ch air will rule that it is rather matter of amendment to the section. It will be ia order, undoubtedly, when the section shall be under consideration. The questi on is upon the amendment to th e eigh t eenth section, and co nsists in st riking out that section, and inserting what the Secretary will read. The Secretary read the section and amendment, as follows: [The original section is as follows:] SEc. 18. There shall be elected, in and for each county, by th e electors thereof, one judge and one clerk ot the county court whose terms of office shall be four years. County courts shall be courts of record, and shall have original jurisdiction in all matters of probate, settlements of estates of deceased persons, appointments of guardians and conservators, and settlements of their accounts, in all matters relating to apprentices, in actions of debt, assumpsit, trover, replevin and trespass, either to person or personal property, where the amount claimed or value of the property in controversy does not exceed five hundred dollars; and of crimes and misdemeanors where the punishment shall not be capital, or confinement in the penitentiary. Said courts shall also have jurisdiction in proceedings for the collection of taxes and assessments, but no other jurisdiction relating to real estate. [The section, as amended in Committee of the Whole, is as follows:] SEc. 18. There shall be elected in and for each county by the electors thereof, one judge and one clerk of the county court, whose terms of office shall be four years. County courts shall be courts of record, and shall have original jurisdiction in all matters of probate, settlement of estates of deceased persons, appointment of guardians and conservators and settlements of their accounts, in all matters relating to apprentices, and in proceedings for the collection of taxes and assessments. In all counties that may, upon the recommendation of the board of county commissioners or board of supervisors, adopt the same by a majority of all the votes cast at any general election, the said county court shall also have original jurisdiction in actions of debt, assumpsit, trover, replevin and trespass, either to person or personal pfoperty, where the amount claimed or value of the property in controversy does not exceed five hundred dollars, and of crimes and misdemeanors when the punishment shall nest be capital, or confinement in the penitentiary. Mr. ARCHER. Mr. Presilent: I hope the Convention will not concur with the Committee of the Whole in its action in striking out section eighteen, and sulbstituting the ~ne just read. The eighteenth section as reported by the Judiciary Colrn reittee, conferred a new anct additional jurisdiction upon the county courts: In all counties that may, upon the recommendation of the board of county commissioners, or board of supervisors, adopt the same by a majority of all the votes cast at any general election, the said county court shall also have original jurisdiction in actions of debt, assumpsit, trover, replevin and trespass, either to person or personal property, where the amount claimed or value of the property in controversy does not exceed five hundred dollars, and of crimes and misdemeanors where the punishment shall not be capital, or confinement in th -penitentiary. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION 1408 THUP.SDAY, In cases of debt, assumpsit, trover, replevin, and trespass, either to pei-son or perSonal propert3,, where the amount claimed or the value of the property in controversy, does not exceed five hur dred dollars; or ofcrimes and misdemeanors, where the punishment shall not be capital, or confinement in the penitentiary. The section substituted bv the Committee of the Whole. -o far a,;it relates to the question of increased jurisdiction, has, in place of the recommendation of the standing committee, provided these words: API 1 80 IBTSAD[RCEJG.10 L in all matters relating to apprentices; and in t proceedings for the collection of taxes and assessments; and such other jurisdiction as may be provided by general law. Mr. DEMENT. I hope that the sub stitute of the gentleman from Clark [Mr. Scholfield] will not be adopted. I have some objection to it, which I will state, very briefly. First, the manner of compensating t judges, which presents to very person's mind some difficulties. it requires it t should be paid out of the county treasu ry, or out of the docket fees. Now, sir, if two or more counties shall be formed into one district, how will you apportion the amount that each county shall pay towards the salary of this judge? I re gard it as an intricate and complicated system. Then, sir, it is to be a court of record. Why should circuit courts in a county . keep the records of judgments, etc., in L the office of a crcuit court, and have the f proceedings and judgments of the pro posed courts, recorded or kept in another office from that which keeps the record of judgments, and proceedings of the circuit court? It appears to me, that if such measures as the one proposed, are adopted, although the attorneys of a county may be very numerous, astute, and industrious, there will hardly be a suffi cient number of them to keep the people advised of the kind of justice they are to have in the county, and where they are to have it. Mr. SCHOLFIELD. Since I offered the substitute, I have examined more carefully, and reflected on the effect of the amendments to the twentieth section, which the Convention has just adopted, and I am satisfied they accomplish the purpose intended to be accomplished by my substitute. I therefo)re withdraw it. The PRESIDENT.. The question is on concurrence with the amendment pro posed by the Committee of the Whole, as amended in Convention, and it will be declared concurred in. The question recurs upon past sections, namely: section thirteen The question is upon concurrence with the report of the Committee of the Whole on section thirteen. The first amendment is that the words "exe-lusive of the county of Cook," be stricken from the first line. The amendment was not agreed to. Mr. TURNER. I call for a division. Mr. WASHBURN. Mr. President: I wish to say one or two words in regard to this question. I believe the Committee of the Whole acted wisely in striking out the words "exclusive of Cook county." The number of inhabitants fixed in this section by the Committee of the Whole, as the average requisite for a judicial district, was so: fixed with special reference to the fact that Cook county, which, it was admitted, required a greater number of judges ac-. cording to population, than any other t part of the State, was included in, not i excluded from the estimate. p Mr. TURNER. Mr. President: Since I I have learned what the question was, I v withdraw my motion for a division, so 1 that the amendment stands adopted. t Mr. HAY. Mr. President: Ithink the E Convention will see the necessity of nonconcurring in this amendment to strike ] out. The PRESIDENT. The Chair had th announced that the Convention does not 1 expressed themselves favorably inclined towards it, and advised me to offer it at the proper time. If the amendment is adopted, the Leg islature will be authorized to group to gether two or more of the small counties in any portion of the State into districts with one county judge, who shall have the jurisdiction provided for in this see. tion, and in that way obviate the objec tion which is mad to e to the section as it stands. Wte ae a forcing small countie s t o the expense of supporting a county judge. This aendmdment remaovesthatob jection. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the amendment proposed by the gentleman from Cook [Mr. Medill]. The Secretary read the amendment offered by Mr. Medill, as follows: Insert after the second line, "but the Gen eral Assembly may create districts of two or more counties, in each of which shall be elect ed one judge, who shall take the place and exercise all the power and jurisdiction of county judges in such districts." A division was ordered. The Convention divided, when, there being t, etity-seven in the affirmative and twenty-three in the negative, the amend ment was agreed to. The PRESIDENT. Are there any further amendments to be proposed to the proposition of the Committee of the Whole? If not, the question is upon the substitute proposed by the gentleman from Clark [Mr. Scholfield]. The Secretary read the substitute offered by Mr. Scholfield, as follows: SEC. -. There shall be established, instead of the existing county courts, in each of the counties of this State, a court to be called "the court of common pleas;" said court shall be a court of record, and shall have original jurisdiction in all matters of probate, settlement of' estates of deceased persons, appointment of guardians and conservators, and the settlement of their accounts, in all matters relating to apprentices, or proceedings for the collection of taxes and assessments, and such criminal and further civil jurisdiction as may be prescribed by law. Sec. -. Judges of said court shall be elected from districts, to be composed of one or more counties, and shall hold their offices for the term of four years, and until their successors shall be elected and qualified. SEC. —. The clerks of the county courts shall be ex-offcio clerks of the courts of common pleas. SELc. -. Judges of said court shall receive such compensation, not exceeding two thousand five hundred dollars, for their services, as may be prescribed by law, to be paid out of the county treasuries of the several counties, and from docket fees in civil cases. Sec. —. There shall be at least four terms of said court heldl in each county annually. No grand juries shall be called or impanneled in said court, but offenses less than felonies shall he prosecuted therein in Much other manner as shall be provided by law. The PRESIDENT. The Secretary will read the proposition of the Committee of the Whole as it has been amended in Co~nvention. The Secretary read section eighteen, as amenlded, as fbllows: 3EC. 18. There shall he elected in and for each county, by the electors thereof, one judge and one clerk ot the county court, whose terms of officee shall be fburfyears. But the General Assembly may create districts of two or more counties, in each of which shall be ele cted one judge, who shall take the place and exercise all the powers and jurisdiction of county j udges in such districts. County courts shall be courts of record, and shall have original j urisdiction in all mwatters of probate;* settlement of estates of deceased persons;t appointment of guardians and conlservat-ors, and settlements of their accounts;~ 3537 concur. The question is now upon the second amendment proposed by the Com mittee of the Whole. The Secretary read the proposed amendm ent, as follows: Strike out in the third linethe words, "containing not less than ninety thousand population each," and inserting the words, "not more than one circuit for every one hundred thousand inhabitants of the State." Mr. BENJAMIN. Mr. President: I move to strike out the words, "not more than one circuit for every one hundred thousand inhabitants of the State." I think the Convention will see, from our action upon the section with reference to county courts, that this will be absolutely necessary. During the last year, ending the first of March, there were twelve hundred and seventy-one new suits commenced in McLean county. In the circuit there were about three thousand cases commenced. It is impossible for one circuit judge to transact all the business. Mr. TINCHER. Mr. President: I only want to say that I was one of the swift advocates for inserting "one hundred thousand," but on mature reflection, after having vtsited D inville and Champaign, and conversed with the attorneys, I am satisfied thatit will not answer the purpose. I hope the Convention will strike out the amendment of the Committee of the Whole. i findinmy own circuit, which has about one hundred thousand population, with the greatest possible effort to keep up with the business, the judges ,,re a long way behind, and can net catch up; and I find the same to be the fact in Champaign county, where Judge Gall iger presides, than whom no better or prompter judge occupies the bench in the State. Mr. WALL. Mr. President: Thereasons urged by nearly every gentleman who favored inserting this provision, were that the circuits had been changed and altered and divided so frequently as to make it a matter of very great importance that there should be some restriction in the Constitution to prevent such things. hereafter. Numerous instances were cited where circuits had been cut up, and counties changed from one circuit to another, to such an extent as to make the restriction an absolute necessity. I favored a restriction of a still higher number. Another restriction was added, however, which is as follows: New circuits may be formed and the boundaries of circuits and divisions changed by the General Assembly, at its session next preceding the electio~n of the judges of the circuits or ~ divisions sought to be changed, but at no other time. In lay judgment, this second restrictionl will accomplish all that is needed. If what I have heard fromn gentlemnen be true, it will certainly be unwise to put in a limitation on the basis of population. I certainly would be unwilling, if it be true, as gentlemen state, that it will work injuriously in the northern and central parts of the State, to fixs this limitation. I am of opinion, sir, that the second provision, which is that new circuits cannot be formed or old circuits changed oftcrier than once in six years, would accomplish all that is desired. Mr. TURNER. Mr. President: I believe there is no nation to strike out, sir? The PRESIDENT. There is armotion to strike out, in the second and third lines, the words. t i r. c Is t r, d n y d y n e r d e f e a e e e e f I e s s A.PP.IL 21, 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1409 p 1410 COSTITUTIOAL COYENTJON THURSDAY, ot more than one circuit for every one hun. tion of circuits would be too small for the ness of the State. They all recognize tion of circuits would be too small for the State, it was also put on a sliding scale, acco(rding to population. If gentlemen think it is not sufficient, let them name a smaller basis. But why strike it out? Why undo our work, as though we had worked like boys piling up sand to scratch it down again? Mr. SEDGWICK. I presume gentlemen have, since then, been home consulting their constituents. Mr. BRO [tWELL. Mr. President: If they have been among their constituents, believing this to be a provision that there should be one hundred thousand peo - p le to each circuit, they have been in poor condition to give information. That is not the proposition. The proposition is that there shall be no more circuits created than would give that number to a circuit in the State. McLean county may contain fifty thousand, and be one circuit;.and the circuit in the territory represented by ithe gentleman from Schuyler [Mr. Fox] may contain two hundred and fifty thousand people. It is as elastic and adjustable as ally provision can be. This would give us about twenty-five judges outside of Chicago, and I am satisfied that we have given Chicago more judges than are needed. If there is one thing the people want more than another, it is some limitation that will make our judges go to work. Why is it that in so many circuits they cannot reach the business? They do not reach after it. As long as the judges permit the bar and all hands to sit around and not try a case, when everybody is ready and no objection is made, they never will reach the business, and there is no use in the people of the State of Ill;nois manufacturing circuits for the purpose of accommodating that way of doing business. Put our circuits in such a condition that a judge will have to use expedition to get round, and let him do that,and I will guarantee that there are judges enough on this floor to testify that he can do the businees for a hundred thousand inhabitants, on an average, throughout the State. Mr. GOODHUE. Mr. President: I have only just one word to say here. I am strongly impressed with the illustration used by the gentleman from Col es [Mr. Bromwell]. He did not like to pile up sand and then be required to pull it down again. I thank the gentleman for a his admis sion. He admits that instead of adopting a sensible clause here in the Constitution of this State, it was a pile of sand, and now he is ashamed to go to work with his own hands and help to tear it down. Mr. President, it does seem to me that there can be no sort of reason for engraftifg any such a clause as this upon the Constitution. There were half a dozen of us, or more, who urged very strongly and earnestly at the time the clause was uider consideration, that it never ought to find a place in the Constitution of this Statr. There were gentlemen from other sections of the State who persistently refused to pay any sort of attention to our testimcny. Since the members of this Convention have dispersed, gone to their homes and returned, one after another has offered his testimony to the effect that this clause is not reasonable and that it will not place us in a position for the speedy transaction of the judicial busi CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION THUP,SDA.Y) 1410 r,ess of the State. They all rec(-gnize that population is not a fair basis for estimatidg the amount of judicial business in any locality of this.State. Now, it does seem to me that there is a very strorg argument to, be urged upon the minds of this Convention, from the fact that quite a number of individuals who urged the passage of this section, originally, are now ready to drop it. It is a strong argument from the very fact that, perhaps, a large liut-nber of gentlemen, other than these, have not given this question that investigation which would enable them to flx any DUMber as a basis. Gentlemen differ as to the number or as to the basis of population which should form a circuit, and the verv diversity of sentiment, tire very diversity of opinion upon this question shows that it is arbitrary, and that it must, in the very nature of thir.,gs, be arbitrary. Now, then, why not leave this matter with the Legislature, and charge them with the responsibility of dividing these circuits? If the responsibility is laid ui)on them, it will -be exercised under due deliberation. It will be exercised after bringing under their eye, and under their judgment all the facts that are uecessary, from which to draw conclusions. They will have their committees appointed. Those committees will give a tijor(,ugh examination to the question as to the Dumber of cases tried in the different circuits, the amount of business upon th(; dockets, the amount of business that is constantly accumulating, and the time which the judge is required to perform judicial service for the purpose of disposiDg Of the business upon his d(cket. Now, then, when all of this knowledge is brought before a General Assembly, there 7S SOMethiDg from which reasonable, fair, and honest-midded men can draw a fair conclusion, and upon which they can frame a law in relation to the division of those circuits, which will do justice to every portion of the State. Now, I apprehend, there is not one single gentleman upoii t.his floor who is not WilliDg, in his particular judicial circuit, that the judge shall be worked almost constantly. I presume there is not a gentleman upon this floor, who is not anxious to throw as maiiv burdens upon the Not more than one circuit for every one hundred thousand inhabitantb. Mr. TURNER. Mr. President: I was one of those who were in favor of insert.jot onl3- 100,000, b t a higher iaumber, for I am satisfied that there are localities where One judge can do the busi.uess of a population of 200,000. But, sir, I am also now satisfied that there are other localities vhere One judge can-not do the business of 100,000, or t)f 75,000. Therefore, I am in favor of striking out these words, and leaving it entirely with the General Assembly to establish the circuits according to the business of the country, and not according to tb e pc)pulatioii. Mr. FOX. Mr. President: I do not think gentlemen will find the case to be as they represent it. Tne hundred thousand limitation does not apply to the population of districts, or to the size of them, but to the number of the circuits in the State. There shall be no more than one circuit for every 100 000. The number of inhabitants in a district may be larger or smaller., But thi,Q does not limit the population of the circuits. Now, in our district we have a popul,,ttion of one hundred and forty thousand, but our judge does not consume more t-han tllirteeor fourteen weeks in a year in making the rounds, and I believe he would willingly take two or three more counties. We have an average amount of business Of counties devoted principal'iy to agricultural pursuits. If I understand the wording of this section, it is that the' State shall be divided into a number of circuits, of not more than one to every 100,000 population. It was framed to obviate the objection that the Legi,,,Iature should be restricted to form circuits, of not less than 100,000 inhabitants and that, on the other hand, it should not go to the other extreme, in making many small circuits, in which judges will receive $3,000 or $4,000 a year, without giving a due amount of labor in return for it. I I am opposed to striking it Out. It is -not obnoxious, I think, to the Objection urged against it. Mr. BROMWELL. Mr. President: The gentleman from Stepber-son [Mr. Turner] seems of opinion that this is a ... he nu -. ber of eo le in a API. 1 80 J~BTE ~ RCEIG.11 lWe provide in the judiciary article that judges of circuit courts shall report to the Legislature at its next session, the num ber of cases which they may have on their dockets. That will be one means of as certaining how the circuits should be di vided, and how many circuits should exist in the State. They will have other sources of information. There is no danger in the world that in the future we will have extravagant Legislatures. There will be a large niumber-one hundred and fifty-three in the house and fifty-one in the senate. That body will fix the compensation of their successors ard of the judges, and reasonable fees, as we have indicated in the article passed yesterday, for all county officers. As sure as the time arrives, members who are candidates for the Legislature, will have the question put to them whether they are in favor of high compensations and salaries, or low ones. Men who are candidates will want to be elected. They will not make their range very high. AWe must look for very low compensation f)or all officers, from constables up to governors and judges of the supreme court. We must look for au economical division of circuits, and that they will not loosely give judges small circuits as mere perstonal favors. There is not the least danger of that, sir. Hence, I think if there is anything in the world that we can trust with the Leg islature, we can trust this thing with reference to the size of the circuits, so that they may so arrange the circuits as will meet the wants of the counties of the State. Mr. PARKS. Mr. President: I am as much interested in this question as any gentleman in this Convention, and I be lieve my constituents feel more interest in it than in anything else that has been before us. I do not wish, however, to make a speech. If I did, I should only repeat, substantially, what I said a few weeks ago, when this question was disussed. I earnestly hope that the motion of the gentleman from McLean [Mr. Benjamiu], to strike out, will prevail. I think the restriction is wrong in principle, that it will operate badly in practice, and that it will create a great deal of opposition to this Constitution. I suppose the Convention is as well prepared to vote now as it would be after another long discussiou. I move the previous question on the motion to strike out. n t iuMr. HAYES. I would ask the gentleman a question. Whethera smaller number, with the flexible character of the provision, would not meet the views of the gentleman? Say fifty, sixty, or seventyfive thousand. If the previous question be adopted, it cannot be amended any further. oMr. PARKS. I think it should be all stricken out, for the new Constitution t ia that respect, should be like the old one. Mr. GOODHUE. I would ask the gentleman, would not fixing a lesser number The PRESIDENT. The Chair will state that the previous question having been moved, inquiry is not in order. The previous question is moved. The motion for the previous question was agreed to, and the main question was ordered. - The PRESIDENT. The question ist liberally than for other parts of the State. We live in the immediate vicinity of St. Lou is, and it o ccasioned some littl e surprise that Chicago needed so many more judges than St. Louis. The true principle is this, the people ought to be provided with enough courts to enforce law, for all our laws are en forced in the judicial tribunals. Now, how many are necessary? Let experience answer. There is not a State in the union that has ever put such a provision in her Constitution-such an arbitrary, iron rule. From the very nature of things, a city miiust have twice as many courts in proportion to population, as the country requires. Then some parts of the co)untry, by reason of business, by reason of corporations, by reason of railroads or navigable rivers, by reason of tueir people being from different parts of the world, have more litigation and lawlessness, which the courts must settle. I fluted in the great city of St. Louis, after c,)nsultatiou with one of their circuit judges and with attorneys residing there, tihJ t they do not have more than half the business of the more live, active and energetic city of Chicago. They are able, with about three circuit judges and one judge of the criminal court, to dispose of most of their business. So in the county wlhere I reside we had, at the last March term of court-and that was at our short term-upward of one th,,usaud cases on docket. We have a term in August of three weeks, and a fall term of about eight weeks. Yet my friend who resides in Madison county [LMr. Springer] will say that on their docket they have not five hundred cases at the spring term. There is a city court in the city of Alton, and the population is about the same. There is more than twice as much business in St. Clair as in Aladison county. Hence, it will not do to grade our courts by population. We must take it for granted that the Legislature will do right. Although the Legislature has made some mistakes, I fear it will be found before we adjourn that we, too, have made mAny. There is no fear that the Legislature will afford too great facilities for the people to have cases tried and justice done them. Under another undortunate provision of the Constitution, (an iron provision incorporated into the Constitution in 1847,) which provided that j udges should have one thousand dollars compensation and no more, the Legislature was induced to grant new circuits freely. I know how it wvas. I helped form many of these circuits while ill the Legislature. They granted two or more counties a circuit court, knowinog that it would be hardly possible to get a man of reasonable competency who would be induced to take a large circuit like those of the old days, of tell or a d,ozen counties. If we allo)w a large comlpensation, the people will undoubtedly lrequire additional work to be done by those judges, and will increase those circuits as soon as they cam —as soon as the terms of these judges expire. With this admirable county court system, which would enable a larger county to get a judge, as capable as a circuit judge, to dispatch smaller cases, I have no dou bt that fifteen circuit j udges will be en lugh outside of Chicago), while the Legislature will be able to provide as many as the public necessities requiring. YEAS. APP.IL 2.t5 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1411 upon strikidg out the ladgua-rige inserted ia the Comniittee, of the Whole. Mr. BROWNING. I will take the yeas and na,ys un that. I was cut off from the opportunity of speaking, and I wish to record my views. The yeas and uays were ordered. The Secretary proceeded to call the roll. Mr. SEDGWICK (when his name was called) sa-ld: I would be WilliDg to strike out and insert a smaller number than one hundred thousand, but I am not willing to strike out and leave it blank. Therefore, I shall vote "No." Mr. MEDILL (when his -name was called) said: Mr. President: I am in favor of reducing the number below one hundred thousand, but I am not in favor of leavidg the matter wholly to the Legislature to fix the number of circlit judges. Therefore, I sh,ll be obliged to vbte "No" upon the motion. Mr. CARY (when his -name was called) said: Mr. President: For the same reaSODS given by the gentleman from Cook [Mr. Medill], I am obliged to vote "No," though I am willing to vote for a less number whenever I am convinced that there is a necessity for it. The result was then aiinounced-yeas 30; uays 32 — as follows: Anthony, Benjamin, Bowman, Craig, F,Idredge, Fuller, Gamble, Goodhue, Hart, Harwood, Ray, Hif(irup, McCoy, Merriam, Moore, Neece, Parker, Parks, Perlev, Peirce, Poage, Spriiiger, Tincher, Turner, Underwood, Wait, Wall, Wells, Wheaton, Whiting-30. NA.YS. Abbott, Cummings, Scholfield, Allen of Cr'fd.,Dement, Sedgwick, Anderson, Ellis, Sharp, Archer, Forman, Sherrill, Bayne, Fox, Snyder, Bromwell, Goodell, Sutherland, Browning, Haines of C'ok,Vande-veuter, Buxton, Hankins, Wagner, Cary, Haves, Washburn, Church, King, Wilson-32. 0 -411, Cr Os, medi ABSENT. OR NOT VOTING. Allen of Alex-English, Ross, Atkins, Hanna, Skinner, Brown, Haines of Llke,Truesdale, Bryan, McDowell, Tubbs, Cameron Pillrbury,. Wendling, Cody, Rice, WriL-ht. Coolbaugh, Robinson, Mr. Pre-sidint-21. So the motion of Mr. Berjaiiiin to strike out, was not agreed to. - Mr. SCHOLFIELD. Mr. President: I move to strike out "oiae hundred thou,,and and insert in lieu thereof "seventyfive thousand."' Mr. DEAIENT. Mr. President: I wish to call for a division of the question. I wish to insert a larger number. I know there are others who wish to have a chance to record their votes in favor of a larger number. Mr. WELLS. Mr. President: The motion to strike out "one hundred thousand" and insert 11 sevelity-five thousadd" will afford very little relief to that part of the State that complains of this number of one hundred thousand. I regard all that -part of tiae section as entirely unneces;ary. It is a species of special legislation with which we should not meddle. It is true that under the old Constitu 141 COSJUJiA - TH SDA Mr. WELLS. I am obliged to the ; gentleman; still, I have but a few mo ments more, and I cannot yield. I hope gentlemen will so vote that the State will be apportioned into judicial circuits, and that this attempt to peddle out the number of inhabitants in circuits will be voted down. It is an attempt to put the people in a straight jacket-to make them declare of themselves that on this subject tbey should be sent to an in, sane asylum and pronounced non compos menti8s for all time to come. [Laughter.] This will not answer in many circuits ina this State —no such provision can. If it is adopted, we will be forced to vote against any such clause in the Con stitution. I sincerely hope some provi sion will be adopted in place of this, pro viding that the State shall be divided in to judicial circuits, and leaving it to the Legislature to settle them. Gentlemen say the Legislature has abused this power. It was because spe cial laws were passed. When two or three counties applied for a circuit, to quiet them, the Legislature made the circuit, knowing that the salary was a trifle, and that if the business was small, the cost would be small. In many circuits, how ever, the judges sit nine or ten months in the year. I think the incorporation of this pro vision would compel people in those cir cuits to oppose everything in the article in which it is engrafted. Mr. McCOY. Mr. President: I have already partially discussed this questiond in Committee of the Whole, as did many other gentlemen on this floor. If this 100,000 population is to be adopted, I want this addition made, that if the Legislature apply the 100,000 popu lation and cannot make a satisfactory solution of the subject, they shall take the area of the State and divide it by the number of acres, andl in that manner get a quotient that may be satisfactory. [Laughter.1] I think there would be as much sense in one as in the other. It is impossible to measure the judicial busi ness of this State by the population. In what manner does population bear on this subject? It is the judicial business by which circuits should be measured, and not population. I happen to be in the twenty-second judicial circuit. It is composed of four counties. One county, at the last term, had 410 new cases on the docket, acnu mulated within three months. That would give to that county alone, 1600 cases per annum. Multiply the 1600 by four, and we have a very nice amount of business for one judge to perform in twelve months, to-wit: 6,400 cases per annum, to try. e It is no kind of use to talk of any kind of a judicial system being based upon population, and I hope that any gentleman who has entertained that idea, will disabuse himself upon that subject now and forever. I am satisfied that it may be a kind of corrective to fix some basis of population-say 50,000-but I am totally opposed to any kinsd of population being necessary for the purpose of measuring judicial service. I believe that circuits should be based upon business. I do hope that the judgment of this Convention will decide, after carefully weighing the subject, to strike out everything that makes population the basis for judicial service, and let it be handed over to tion the Legislature, having the power to pass special laws, having in view the fact that the judges were not paid for more than one third of what they actually earned, have been induced to pass laws creating circuits of a much smaller size than they might economically have done. That has been the case in the southern part of the State alone, I believe. There is no circuit in the northern part of the State but what has been doing business for a sufficient length of time, each year, to have established the contrary in that part of the State. Now, then, this seventy-five thousand provision is measuring out the amount of justice that the people shall have per head, and we might as well talk of a meas ure by avoirdupois, and say the limit shall be a judge for every one hundred thou sand pounds of humanity. Justice should be dealt out freely. 'This section limits, or proposes to limit to one hundred thousand. How comes it that in Cook county the inhabitants are entitled to more consideration than their neighbors? Why is it that fifty thousand is enough to warrant a judge there, while outside of that county a larger num.ber is required? The reason is because Chicago is an immense commercial center, and has more business, in proportion, than a farmig community. Mr. BROMWELL. Mr. President: What the gentleman says, being true, is -not that exactly in favor of this provision? Those portions of the State which require more judicial work can have it done, and less may be done in other portionis of the State. - Mr. WELLS. No, sir. That is not proved. The circuits should be measured by the amount of business done. Mr. BRO.MWELL. Mr. President: That is precisely what the Legislature will do. Mr. WELLS. No, sir. That is precisely what it will not do. [Laughter]. Mr. BROMWELL. The proposition is, Mr. President, that the number of circuits shall not exceed a certain number, and they shall apportion accordingly. Mr. WELLS. Mr. President: How many circuits will that give? Can the gentleman tell? The provision we adopt must be permanent. Mr. MEDILL. Mr. President: I would like to ask if there are thirty circuits outside of Cook county, on a basis of seventy-five thousand? Mr. WELLS. Mr. President: It may be suggested, in addition, that by this provision, we will array a large portion of the northern part of the State against this article. W~e cannot help it. The ge.ntleman from Logan [Mr. Parks], gentlemen from other circuits, gentlemen from circuits in the western part of the ]State, and from the circuit I represent, are compelled to oppose any such limitationl. It will not answer the wants of the people. Mr. PERLEY. Mr. President: The judge of the twenty-third circuit has not averaged fourteen weeks per annum in court for six years.~ Mr. WELLS. I do not care what he has averaged — Mr. McC OY. Mr. President: Will the gentleman yield? Mr. WELLS. I cannot yield for the gentleman. Mr. McCOY. I am on your side. YEAS. Harwood, Hay, Hayes, Hildrup, McCoy, Medill, Merriam, Moore, Neece Parker, Parks, Perley, Peirce, 0 1412 CONSTI'.t"UTIONAL CONYENTION Tiiup,.SDAYI the Legislature-tbat august body-over two hundred strODg-tbat is coming here from all parts of the State, from -every county, from every hamlet, almost; and when the subject of thejudicial service is brought up in that body they will measure it and weigh it and look at it, and I know that they will be better prepared to do justice in this matter than this limited body. I therefore sball go earnestly and heartily for the proposition of the gentleman from Clark [inir. Scholfield] to strike out the number 100,000 or any other number which may be proposed to be inserted. lLr. CUMMINGS. Mr. President: If it is in order I would like to move an amendment. The PRESIDENT. It is in order. Mr. CUMMINGS., Then I move, -,ir, to insert 120,000. ["Division."] The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the amendment. A division of the question is callled for. The question is upon the motion to strike out "one hundred thousand," The, yeas and nays were ordered, and beino, taken, resulted-yeas, 38; nays, 24 -as follows: Anthony, Bayne, BeDjamin, Bowman, Cameron, Church, Coolbaugh, Cra',g, Eld -edge, Fuller, Gamble, Goodhue, Hart, Rice, Scholfield' Sheri-ill, Springer" Tincli7er, Turner,' Underwood, Wait, Wall' we] I's' Wheaton, Wendlii)g-38. NAYS. Abbott, Cummings, Kin 9 Allen, of Crfd.,Dement, Sharp, Anderson, Ellis, Snyder, Archer, Forman, Sutlierla-Dd, Bromwell, Fox, Vaudeventer, Browning, Goodell, Wagner, Buxton, Haines of Cook, Washburn, Cross, Hankins, Wilson-24. ABSENT, OR NOT VOTING. Allen, of Alx., Haines of L'k, Sedgwick, Atkins, Hanna, Skinner, Brown, McDowell, Truesdale, Bryan, Pillsbury, Tu b bs, Cary, Poa,ge, Whit'.91 Cody, Roinson, Wright, English, Ross, Mr. President-21. So the motion of Mr. Scholfield, to strike out "one hundred thousand," was agreed to. Mr. CHURCH. I now move to insert in the blank "ninety thousand." Mr. TINCHER. I move to insert "seventy-five thousand." Air. HAINES, of Cook. I move to insert "one hundred thousand." Mr. ARCHER. I Move to idsert "one hundred and twenty-five thousand." Mr. ANTHONY. I move to insert "fifty tbotisaud." The PRESIDENT. The question is upon fillii)g the blank with "one hundred and tweiity-five thousand." iMr. WASHBURN. I wish to wake a few remarks before the blank is filled, and I will preface them by saving that in Coiiimitteee of the Whole here was, perhaps, no question that was discussed, more extensively and more thoroughly than the very question we are acting upon now. API 21 18.DBTSADPO)EIG.11 one circuit, but limiting the number of circuits to be created in the whole State, leaving the Legislature free to cr e ate large or small circuits, as the exigencies of the case may demand. After all this, and after the Convention had once met the expectations of the people, in the line of reformation that they most strongly demanded, we are now asked to turn around, disappoint their expectations, and tell them by our action to-day that they need no longer expect from us any reform on this subject. When I think of the action of this Convention on many of the great reforms introduced here and defeated-I have not time now to specify them-and, now that the very last one which the Convention had determined upon, about to be repudiated, it seems to me that the people cannot expect anything of their servants in the line of reform-less taxation and lighter burdens. I hope each member of the Convention will study well the interests of the people-the tax payer as well as the officeIseeker, before he gives his vote for filling this blank. Mr. ARChER. Mr. President: Whena this report was under discussion in Com- mittee of the Whole, I moved to strike out ninety thousand and insert one hundred thousand, which prevailed, and for one I was satisfied with that number of inhabitants for a judicial circuit. At the same time I believed then, as I do now, that we may safely apportion a large, number than one hundred thousand as an apportionment of population for a judicial circuit. I have now moved a hundred and twenty-five thousand, and I believe that that number is about as fair an apportionment of population to a judicial circuit as we can make, since the one hundred thousand has been stricken out. I know, Mr. President, that in our cirecuit we have a population of about one hundred and forty five thousand, and I know that the judge of our circuit is not employed more than eighteen weeks out of a year in holding all the courts of that circuit. I know that throughout the circuit the dockets are kept clear, and I suppose that other judges, in other parts of the State, probably can dispatch basiness as readily a- he can, as we have in the counties comprising that circuit, about an average proportion of busines s with other counties in the State. There are cities and localities, it is true, where a much less number than a hundred and twenty-five thousand may afford jndicial business enough to keep a judge employed perhaps even longer than eighteen weeks, but there is no necessity to apportion a hundred and twenty-five thousand to every judicial circuit That is not the object of the section. The one hundred and twenty-five thousand is only a means of ascertaining the number of circuits to be created in the State, by di n viding the population by that number, the quotient forming the number of circuits to be created in the State. There may be portions of the State where a judge may take two hundred thousand inhabitants, and hold courts enough to dispatch all the business thatt that locality may require to be done. There may be other portions of the State where fifty thousand inhabitants may fur- w nish as much or more legal business, and require as much or more judical force as The members of this Convention have shown themselves very unwilling to trust the Legislature, and they have been denouncit,-g that body from day to day as being wholly unsafe and unreliable. If there be any one thing in the history of the past legislation of the country that renders them obnoxious and open to the criticism and denunciation which has been so mercilessly heaped upon them by this Convention, it is most certainly their action heretofore with regard to judicial circuits, for they have been as extrava. gant in the waste of the people's money in the creation of an unnecessary number of circuits in this State as on any other subject. Perhaps, on no other subject have they shown themselves as unreliable and unsafe as on that subject, and yet, now, gentlemen who have shown themselves so unwilling to trust them on any other subject, are now perfectly williDg to put this subject into their hands without any limit whatever, leaving them perfectly free to repeat and perpetuate this ob noxious legislation. It is not worth while to specify instances of the abuse that the Legislature has imposed upon the people in the exercise of their power of creating judicial circuits. There are now perhaps twenty-nine or thirty circuits in this State, and there are at least five or six more, if not tell more than would take up the time of the judges of this State. There are at least five or six circuits in which the judges do not occupy exceeding eighteen weeks of the whole year in their official duties; and three or four in which they do not take up more than fourteen weeks of the whole year. Yet the limitation of one hundred thousand inhabitants, if placed in the proposed article of our Constitution will not decrease the number of circuit judges to the amount of five, and in five years there will be more circuit judges than there are to-day even under that limitation, because, let me tell gentlemen that whatever limitation they put upon the Legislature, there will be enough judges to fill up the limitation. The Legislature have shown themselves willing to create circuits for the benefit of individuals, and they will be sure to have influences brought to bear upon them, to make just as many circuits as' you will allow them to make. In order to relieve overburdened circuits, and take from them a large nulls ber of small causes, this Conventio)n has to-day created a county court, with extended jurisdiction, and has given the Legislature power to create a court of common pleas, swith extended jurisdic. lion. After all this, we are to put this section, without limit, in the hands of the Legislature, so as to let them go on and create judicial circuits ad libitume. I do not believe the people expect this Convrention to do any such thing. If the people have demanded a check upon the Legislature in any one point, it is in this abuse of their power, in the creation of judicla circuits. The Convention, in Committee of the Whole, once decided, and that by a large majority, after a thorough discussion of this whole subject, much more fully than we Call have to-day, to make taxis lim~itation. It is entirely flextble, and is so con stxucted that it leaves X11l discretion in the Legislature to make large or small circuits, not limiting the numbers in aty 854 I APRIL 21, 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1413 two hundred thousand in another portion of the State; but it does not follow that because that is true, -one hundred and twenty-five-thousand is to be assigned to each circuit, but the Legislature may apportion the population among the circuits according to business. The greater number of inhabitants we apportion (not to a judge, but to a judicial circuit) the less circuits we have got to create, and the less judges we have got to pay. I believe we may very safely put this number at a hundred and twenty-five thousand inhabitants, ar-d that a judge with reasonable iudustr y and dispatch can do all the business that one hundred and twenty- five thousand' - habitants might create, in nine out of every ten judicial circuits that i-nay be formed in this State under this apportionment. I hope that upon economical considerations where we have to pay these circuit judges $3,000 a year,. we may see the necessity of apportioning as much of the population of this State to every judicial circuit, as r,asonablymaybeapportioned. Supposejudges are employed for three, or four, or tive, or even six months of the year (aud that is a very extreme case, for if we put it at 150,000, 1 am inclined to think that ninetenths of the iudges. even then, would be emploved not ni(-)re than three months) we pay them $3,000 a year, and they should perform the service when well paid for it. I hope that considerations of economy will prevail. It takes an enormous amount of money to carry on the machinery of the government of this large and growing State. We have provided for a very large and a fast increasing representation in the Legislature. We oughg to now limit these circuits to as few as may comport with the convenience and necessities of the people, a-id i he abilities of the judges to perform their duties. I hold that we should be actuated by this kind of consideration. We have a great manv State officers to pay, and county ana township and city governnients to keep up; and the whole is an enormous tax upon the people. While we do -not require any arduous or unreasonab'.c service to be performed by theser judges, let us give them population 411 co STITIJTIOAL COWETiO THURSDAY, twenty-nine. Take an average of 90,000take the additional judges that have been made for the 300 or 350,000 in Cook county, divide the population by 90,000 and it will be found that there will be more circuits in the State than now. And, as I said, I believe every man has conceded that that number is too large and ought to be reduced. I take the statenlents af the gentleman fromn Perry [Mr. Wall] and the gentleman from Alexander [Mr. Allen] and other gentlemen, when they say the business of circuits in their -portions of the State does not require the labor of a judge more than eight or nine weeks in a year. Mr. WALL. Mr. President: I have not made any such statement as to the business in my circuit, to my knowledge. I said in the circuit in which I live, there is not business enough to keep a judge employed more than fourteen weeks in the year. Mr. CHURCH. Other gentlemen from that section of the country have stated the number at much less in other circuits. I do not now recall them. While too much labor should not be imposed on the judges, at least half a year's service should be required. We propose to pay them liberally, and they should be required to perform a reasonable amount of labor-something in the neighborhood of what an attorney would be required to do in order to earn the compensation which is allowed to j -dges. If we accept the statements of members here as to the requirements of different portions of the State, there can be no objection to ninety thousand as a basis. Gentlemen say the Legislature will act properly without this limitation. Then will they not act property with this constitutional restriction? Look into the old Constitution and compare the figures there with the figures we are establishing as salaries, and if this blank is filled with fifty thousand, as contemplated by the gentleman from Cook [Mr. Anthony], they will find it is in great contrast to any who choose to look at it in a financial light and compare the expense. Remember also, the liberal provision here for municipal courts in cities, and the flexible condition of the county court provisionbecause the niggardly manner in which the jurisdiction was taken away from the county court by the county court article, as reported by the Committee of the Whole, has been changed. It is now for the Legislature to confer such jurisdiction on those courts as they may find is required. I think ninety thousand cannot be objectionable, viewed in this light, and the lfacts that have been presented. A just apportionment of the State, based upon the business demands, as stated by different members here, will be found ample for all on an average of not less than the ninety thousand. Mr. KING. Mr. President: The gentleman from Cook [Mr. Anthony] asserts that he is willing to wipe out all restrictinon and leave this question entirely to the Legislature. He feels and thinks the Legislature is competent to settle this question. I have as much confidence in the Legislature as any other gentleman on this floor, but if I am to judge by the past acts of that body in creating circuits which have been formed to the number of twenty-nine, when it has been positively otated by gentlemen from the southern CO STITUTIONAL CON'VENTION i 414 THURSD.&Y, part of the State, and other parts of the State, that that number of circuits is not necessary, I feel that we cannot do justice to the people unless in this matter some limitation is placed upon the Legislature. Now, sir, we have twenty-nine judicial circuits and judges in this State. We have increased the salaries to three thousand dollars, and if the population of the State is three, millions, and the amendment that is offered by the gentleman from Pike [Mr. Archer] is adopted, it will leave twenty-four judicial circuits in the State. The Committee on the Legislative Department have stated the population to be, according to the census table of 1865, two million five hundred thousand.or two milli(.;n seven hundred thousand-I do not remember exactly which. I think that at the present time it must amount to three millions; and if that estimate is corret, the amendment of the gentleman from Pike [Mr. Archer] will give us twenty-four'udicial i-a tbe, State, Now, I am led to believe from the argument of the gentleman from Wayne [Mr. Hanna], and the arguu —e-nts of gentlemen from other portions of the State, that we do not need more than eighteen or twenty judges in the State, to transact the business. I have come to the conclusion from the arguments of gentlemen upon this floor, and, as the gentleman from McHenry [Mr. Church] said, I am compelled to take their statements as facts. herefore, I can see no reason for my voItiDg here to tax the people of this State with twenty-nine or thirty j udoes, when we have increased their salary to three thousand dollars. Her ce, I am in favor of the amendment of the gentleman, from Pike [Mr. Archer]. I want the basis raised as high as we can get it, so that we can cut the number of judicial circuits down to eighteen or twenty. I am perfectly willing to raise the salariesof the judges. I want to pay them for their services, but I want them to do good service. If our population turns out to be three millions, which I think it will when the census of 1870 is taken, that will give-us twenty-four judicial circuits in this State, which, I think, will be a sufficient uumbe,-, to enable us to transact all our legal business promptly for the next twentv-five or thirty years. contemptibly small amount for their services; that the circuits were so graded as to require but a. little labor for a judge in order that his salary should correspond. Now, sir, at the proper time, I wish to propose the following substitute. I will rcad it now as an expression of my views: The State shall be divided into judicial districts, to be formed by contiguous counties, in each of which one judge shall be elected by the electors thereof, who shall hold his ,offlce for the term of six years, and until his successor shall be commic-sioned.,,tnd qualified. . IVI r' BRO.N.IWELL. I will ask the gentleman if the abuses that grew up in Chicago were the result of small pay of officials there? Mr. ANTIEIONY. That is not a parallel case at all to the case spoken of here. If anythidg has been demonstrated by the experience and observation of mankind, it has been that legal business does no-. depend upon population entirely. It depends upon the concentration of business at given points, as wcll as population. I undertake to say that in the city of Chicago it does not depend upon population at all. The Convention, a few weeks ago, decided that we might have a judge for every fifty thousand. over and above two hundred and fifty thousand. I stated at that time that I believed we iieeded a ,judge for every fifty thousand, and I believe it now; still gentlemen from other parts of the State say they do not need a judge only for every one hundred and twenty-five thousand or one hundred and fifty thousand inhabitants. I am perfectly willing to accommodate gentlemen uponthisfloor. Iftheywant.ajudgefor every one hundred and twenty-five thousaud, I shall do all I can to accommodate them. But, why fix a limitation in this organic law so that there can be no adjustment of this thing whatever? I shall withdraw for the time being, therefore, with this -explanation which I have given, the ,,proposition to insert fifty thousand, and hall endeavor, at the proper time, to ,have this substitute inserted in place of ,this section. ',NTr. CHURCH. Mr. President: I movcto insert 90,000 in tne blank. The Judiciary Committee had taken some pains to inqluire,.and t'iey reported a minimum DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. the year would give ten cases per day mthroughout eye n n o the year, and many of these cases have taken days for their trial-im. p:)rtant railroad cases. Railroads run through each of the three counties which compose this circuit. From the county seat of McLean, Bloomington, we can start out by railroads in seven different directions. Our dockets are crowded with business of an important character, and we consider our circuit judge as one of the ablest circuit judges in the State. The gentleman from Logan [Mr. Parks], and the gentdleman from DeWitt [MNlr. Moore], will bear me oput in the state nent that there are few judges who can dispatch business more rapidly. Our cir cuit contains a population below the number fixed by this provision,, and I think that it is absolutely essential that we should not be thus tied up, as it were. The courts of justice should be free to everyone throughout the State. Noone should be trammeled in the effo,)rt to ob-: tain justice. This Convention has recog nized the principle in the article in rela tion to Cook county, that the size of cir cuits should be proportioned to business. Say that Cook county has a population of 280,000. We have given it five judges for a circuit court and three for a superior court-that is. one judge for every 35,000 inhabitants; and that is right. I voted for it, and shall vote for it again when it comes before this Conven tion. It is the question of business in connection with the question of popula tion, which should be considered. Mr. FOX. Mr. President: I do not think I can say anything new on this subject, but I deem it my duty to say something in reply to the remarks of gen tlemen on this matter. The gentleman who last addressed us [Mr. Benjamin] speaks of a state of facts existing in his circuit; and I have no doubt that what he has stated is correct. But has not this Constitution been rendered more flexible than the old, and has it not providea many sources of relief in reference to the business of circuit courts? With the ex tended jurisdiction of the county court, it seems to me that circuit courts will be greatly relieved of business. But, again, we do not propose under this provision, as gentlemen seem to assert, that each district must have 100,000 population. Under this section the gentleman's district may cxlntain a great deal less population than it novw contains, ~while the adj oining district, or some other rural district may be, by law, increased as to the population, to comnpentsate for the loss in his district. Noew, if he is willing to leave it discretionary with the Legislature to frame the number ofe circuits, believing they will do it honestly and act wisely, why not leave it to the ss. me power to ftix the number of inhabitants in his circuit, trusting that with equal honesty and wisdomn it will form a circuit according to the legal business transacted? As ohas heels well stated by the gentleman from Pike [Mr. Archer], arnd as M as stated by myself on a former occasion, in my dis. trier we have a population of 140,000. We have an excellent judge, of ability, who can dispatch business, perhaps, with extraordinary facility-cyet we are not cnfined to that district alone fold ex~ampies. 4, - [Mr. Archer] comes. They have a very e able judge there, who, I undertake to t say, will perform in the same length of - time, nearly double the amount of judit cial work that the judge of the circuit I - come from will perform; g and yet, sir, we have elected our judge time and again, until he is now in his twenty-second t year's service, and unless he is removed to a higher court, or removed by death, we expect to elect him for all time to . come, because the people know him to be an honest, pure, upright judge; and knowing that, they know that he cannot perform the labor as rapidly as some other men. He does not dispatch busih ness as rapidly as Judge Hligbee, or some other judges that I am acquainted with. I know I could go upon the bench and dispatch the business twice as rapidly as Judge Sheldon does, and without one-half the satisfaction. [Laughter]. We all know of Judge Gridley, of New York, an able judge, who would dispatch as much business as three or four ordinary judges. There are men who can do it, but they are very rare. It is not alone the ability to dispatch business rapidly, that makes a good j udge. We take our judge, with his slow gait, and we love him, and respect him, and will keep him, unless he is taken from us. There may be judges just as good in every respect, who have not the executive ability to perform their duties with the same rapidity as others. I believe the substitute proposed by the gentleman from Cook [MIr. Anthony] should be adopted, or that this section should be so amended as to leave the question entirely with the General As- sembly. Then, if mistakes are made or abuses occur, they can be corrected by the immediate representatives of the people. Therefore, I hope that this blank will not be filled at all, but that the whole subject will be left entirely with the General Assembly. We should leave it precisely where it ought to be left. There can be no corruption. There may be abuses; but to whom, then, but to the people, who elect their representatives, are those albuses chargeable? I insist upon it that -ur people demand it-and I can say this with more freedom for the reason that I was in favor of putting up the minimum to 100,000 or 125,000. I do believe we can leave the subject with the General Assembly, without any restriction. Mr. BENJAMIN. Mr. President: The counties of DeWitt, Logan and McLean, constitute the circuit in which I reside. According to the census of 1865, DeWitt, county contains a pupulation of 12,815; Logan county, 18,501; and McLean county, 39,772. The aggregate population of the circuit is 71,080. During the past year our circuit judge has held court since the first Monday of September. He will hold court until the first of June, and by reason of the vast amount of business in the circuit, he has been obliged to call a special term of court for the month of June in McLean county. With the ex-. ception of one week, during which he was confined to his house by sickness, he will have held court during the year for the period of ten months. The number of cases that have been brought in that circuit the past year is about three thousand Three hundred working days iam must have courts enough to do their busi lness and do it properly. I thought some t ime ago, a nd m y judg ment still is, that if a proper distribution of judicial cir cuits could be made, we might safely put a limit at one hundred thousand popula tion; but, sir, I am satisfied at the same time that there are many localities in the State where the judge of the circuit court cannot properly do the business for so large a population. The gentleman from Coles [Mlr. Brom well], takes this view of the subject, that the General Assembly is not limited by the one hundred thousand which was inserted in the article, but they might so arrange the circuits as to give to one circuit one hundred and fifty thousand population, and to another fifty thousand. Perhaps, speaking in a strict legal sense, that may be true, but we all know that a ~General Assembly would never dare to ,do any such thing. If a representative f~;om Stephenson county should come here and state that his county contained a pop ulation of fifty thousand, and that it re quired forty-two weeks of the year to do the judicial business there, and upon that statement demand a judge, while in an other portion of the State somebody else desired a circuit with one hundred and fifty thousand population in it, it would be impossible to bring the minds of the General Assembly, consisting of one or two hundred members, to believe that such a great disparity of population should exist in the two circuits. Now, my impression is that, having stricken 100,000 out of the section, the safer plan will be to leave it with the General Assembly to arrange the circuits as may seem proper to them. It is said that there has been a hue and cry raised against the Legislature, and its corrup. tions. I have no doubt, but, owing to the low salaries paid to judges, circuits have been unnecessarily multiplied, but sir, now that we expect to pay them reasonable and fair salaries, Ihere can be no possible inducement presented to the General Assembly, whereby it will be led to do anything that is not in harmony with the best interests of their constituents. The organization of a judicial circuit is not a subject that there will be any money in. It will address itself purely to the good sense and the patriotism of the General Assembly. And may we not suppose that the General Assembly, consistin~g of double the nlumber of members that we have here, coming from every portion of the ;State, elected every two years, with thle ordinary ambitions of men desiring a reelection, or, if not a reselection, desiring that their names may be remembered as honest and competent legislators, will be as competent and as careful to establish ;those circuits as the needs and require^merits of business demand, as we are? If this were a subject of special legislation, if it were a question which would be likely to corrupt a Legislature, I should be in favor of most stringent restrictions, but I cannot now view it in -that light. It is true there mnay be ambitious men who may desire to be circuit judges. But in ally evenlt, after wre have increased the number of the senate and house of representatives, it- is not possible that any ambitious man could ecombine the representatives of any circuit in favor o)f lmaking for him a. judicial circuit. We have recently beenl referred to the circuit frum which my friend from P'~ i i I t s s . s 8 e c c a a t t t s 8 t s t t s API?.IL 21, 1870. 1415 CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION I upon the motion that the Convention do now adjourn. The motion was agreed to. So the Convention (at five o'clock and forty-five minutes) adjourned. questions, to be voted on s epa rate b allots, as follows: 1. "Shall the offices of judges of the su preme court be hereafter filled by appoint ment?" If a majority of the votes upon the question shall be in the affirmative, the said office shall not thereafter be elective, but as vacancies occur they shall be filled by the Governor, by and with the advice and consent of the senate; or if the senate be not in session, by the Gover nor; but in sucha cas e he shall nominate to the senate, when next convened, and such appointment by the Goveralone, shall expire at the end of that session. 2. "Shall oe ude the offices of the judges of the circuit courts be hereafter filled by appoint-. ment?" If a majority of the votes upon the questi on shall be in frad o the affirmative, the sai d offices shall not hereafter be elective, but as vacancies occur they shall be fill ed in the manner in this section above provided. The Legisl ature may p rovide for submitting to the el e ctors of the State a t the same election, these further questions: 1. "Shall the judges of the supreme court hold their offices during life or good be havior?" If a majorit y of votes upon the first question mentioned in this tion t sion, shall be in the affirmative, an aalso a majority of the votes upon this quest i on shall be in the affirmative, the judges of tie supreme court thereafter appointed, shall hold their offices during life or good behavior. 2. "Shall the judges of the circuit courts hold their offices during life or good be havior'?" If a.ajoritv of the votes upon the q,esation secondly in this section me ntio ned, s hall b e in the affirmative, and also a majority of votes upon this question shall be in the affirmative, the judges of the circuit courts thereafter ap pointed, shall hold their offices during life or good behavior. Mr. WHEATON. Mr. President: It being a matter of considerable import ance, and a question that has been agita ted to a considerable extent, among the people, as to whether the judges shall be elected or appointed, I move that one hundred copies be printed and laid upon the desks of the members, to be consider ed in connection with the judiciary arti cle. ["Two hundred."] I said one hundred, because I thought that number would be sufficient, but, as two hundred has been suggested, I will |make it two hundred. The motion was agreed to. STATIONERY TO CONVENTION. Mr. CUMM INGS. Mr. President: I offer the following resolution. The Secretary read the resolution offer ed by Mr. Cummings, as follows: Resolved, That the Committee on Accounts and Expenlditures of the Convention, be instructed to examine and report to this Convention, the amount of stationery and positage drawn by each member of this Conventio~n, and the price of each article, as charged by the Secretary of State. The PR-ES3IDENTr. The question is upon the adoption of the resolution. Mr. CUMMINGS. Mr. President: I call for the yeas and nays. The yeas and nays were ordered. The SECRETARY (calling the roll). "Abbott"' Mr. BAYNE. I call for the reading of the resolution. [The Secretary read the resolution offered by Mr. Cummlings, as follows: .Resolved, That the Committee on Accounts and Expenditures of the Convention, be instructed to examine and report to this Convention, the amount of stationery and postage drawn by each member of this Convention, and the price of each article, as charged by the Secretary. of State. Mr. BROWNING. Mr. President: I trust the -reso~lution1 will be adopted. I think it proper-that we should have thle account reported to us before we adjourn. SEVENTY-SE VEN.YT.I DAY. FRIDAY, April 22, 1870. The Convention met at nine o'clock, A. M., and was called to order by the President. PRkAYER. Prayer was offered by the Rev. Mr. Wines, of Springfield, as follows: Our Father who art in Heaven, the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, we come to Thee this morning with happy and grateful hearts for all Thy mercies, tor the comforts and blessings with which Thou hast crowned our lives, for the hopes with which Thou hast filled our hearts. And we pray Thee that while Thou knowest ouir hearts we may also feel the prompt.ings of sincere worship unto Thee. May we recognize Thee as the giver of all our mercies. May we consecrate to Thee our lives. May we feel our responsibility to Thee, and remember that for all we do we shall have to give an account at the last day. Grant that we may so live that we shall receive Thy favor now t and in the world to come. Help us in the discharge of our duties; enable us to over come all our besetting sins-to resist every temptation. We pray Thee to help us to at tain to nobility and purity of character. Pardon all our sins for the sake of Jesus Christ our Saviour, and bring us to the rest and blessedness of HIeaven, and unto Thy name shall be the praise, now and forever. Amen. especially since Cook county comes in Legislature has created too many judicial many districts-and they are twenty nine the gentleman from Stephenson r. READING OF TIIE JOURNAL. The Secretary proceeded to read the journal of the last day's proceedings, when — hMr. MERRIAM. Mr. President: I mnove that the further reading of the journal be dispensed with. The motion was agreed to. RESOLUTIONS, ETC. The PRESIDENT. Resolutions and propositions for adoption or reference ar e now in order. The PRESIDENT. The Chair will announce the committee appointed under the resolution of the gentleman frone Cook [Mr. Cameron], viz.: Mr. Cameron, Mr. Peirce and Mr. Anderson. Does the gentleman from Schuyler [Hr. Fox] withdraw his motion, to enable the gentleman from Kane [Mr. Wheator,] to introduce his proposition? Mr. FOX. No, sir. ADDITIONAL JUDICIAL SECTION.i Mr. WHEATON. Mr. President: I have an additional section to be proposed to the judiciary article, which I woul d like to have read, and ask to b e printed and laid upon the table to be considered with the judiciary article. The Secretary read the additional seec tion offered by Mr Wheaton, as follows SEc. -. The Legislature shall provide for suibmitting to the electors of the State, at the judicial erection in June, A. D. 1873, two I I FRIDAY, 1416 ADJOURNMIENT. The PRESIDENT. The question is API$ 2 80 EAESADPOEDNS 4 tion was unnecessary in the organic law, because when put there, it cannot be changed. I know that the reason given by gentlemen is, that in the south part of the State parties have come up to the Legislature and got small circuits cut out. Now, this cannot be done under this pro vision which I have read. Mr. BROu oWELL. Mr.Presi dent: Is it still in orde r to name! number s to fill the blank? The PRESIDENT. It is still in order. MAr. BROMWELL. I then move that the blank be filled wit h eighty thou sand. Mr. HAY. Mr. President: This question was one that gave the judiciary committee as much t rouble a s it ha s give n the Convention. It seemed to have been demonstrated by the past experience of the State, that some limitation was very desirabl o e against the un necessary increase of the circuits and the t circuit j udges in the State But o, how, exactly to brin g ab out that limitati on, so as not to cripple t al he judicial poer, the judicial f orce of the State, so as not to prescribe so arbit rary a rule as no t to afford the necessary force upon the b,-nch of the State, w as a question of difficulty in th e Committee upon the Judiciary as w ell as t o the Con vention. I favored a lower limitati on than was finally agreed upon by the committee, although I finally acquiesced in that. After hearing all the discu ssio n upon this subject in Convention, i have come to the cotclusion that we had better pro. vide no limitation whatever rather than provide a low limitation. I am satisfied that if a low limitation be named, the Legislature will come up fully to the limitation. We shall have the whole number of judges, that under the limit can be provided. Suppose we take 75,000 as the limitation, that gives us thirty-six or thirty-seven circuit judges outside of Chicago. We have now only twenty-ine circuit judges outside of Cook county, and it is conceded on all sides, there are a greater number of judges than is neces. sary to do the business of the State, and that it would be desirable to decrease rather than to increasetthe number. Let us just look at it. If we provide a limitation of only seventy-five or eighty thousand, with the almost absolute certainty that the Legislature, when these offices are made desirable by an adequate salary, will fiil them; that we may expect thirty- six j udges to be provided, whereas there are tw~enty-nine under our present Constitution- a number understood to be larger than the necessities of the. State require. For it is conceded that though in some few localities there is a greater amount o~f judiciary work than can be done in these particular circuits, yet it is apparent that if a nesw division of circuits could be made and the judiciary force of the State distributed properly, we have now a greater number than is required. This has brought me to the conclusion to favor striking out any -limitation whatever rather than put too low an one in this article. Now, sir, I have been exercised, if this is done, as to whether any counterpoise will exist under this Constitution against abuses of this unlimited power. These offices, as we may expect, with an adequate salary, will be somnewhat desirable. influences mlay be expected to be!~on Moore, Parker, Parks, Peirce, Poage, Scholfield, Abbott, Cross, Pillsbury, Allen, of Cr'fd, English, Rice, Archer, Haines ofCook,Robinson, Atkins, Haines of Lake,Ross, Brown, Hankins, Skinner, Bryan, Hay, Springer, Buxton, McDowell, Truesdale, Cody, Medill, Mr. President-24. So the motion of Mr. Archer to fill the blank with one hundred and twenty five thousand was not agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon inserting 120,000. Mr. BUXTON. Will it be in order to move to strike out the clause containing this blank? The PRESIDENT. It will not, the Convention having already declined to strike it out. The question is on the motion to fill the blank with 120,000. The motion was not agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon filling the blank with "ninety thousand." The yeas and nays were ordered, and, being taken, resulted-yeas, 21; nays, 42-as follows: YEAS. Allen of Alex.,Goodell, Anderson, Goodhue, Anthony, Hankins, Bayn e, H art, Benjamin, Harwood, Bromwell, Hayes, Browning, Hildrup, Buxton, King, Cameron, McCoy, Cary, Merriam, Church, Moore, Craig, Neece, Cross, Parker, Cummings, Parks, Dement, Perley, Eldredge, Peirce, Ellis, Poage, Fox, Rice, Gamble, Bcholfield, ABSENT, OR NOT VOTING. Abbott, English, Robinson, Allen of Cr'fd., Fuller, Ross, Archer, Haines of Co' k, Skinner, Atkins, Haines of Lake,Springer, Bowman, Hay, Truesdale, Brown, McDowell, Wall, Bryan, Medill, Mr. President-23. Cody, Pillsbury, So the resolution offered by Mr. Cummings was agreed to. JUDICIAL DEPARTMENT. The PRES IDENT. The question i s upon filling the blank made by striking out 100,000 in the amendment to section thirteen of the judiciary article, and inserting 125,000. The S ecreta ry read section thirteen, as am e nded, as follows: SFc. 13. The State shall, (exclusive of the county of Coolk) before the expiration of the terms of office of the present judges of the circuit courts, be divided into judicial circuits-not more than one circuit for everyinhabitants of the State-and for each of which one judge shall be elected by the electors thereof. The judicial divisions and judicial circuits shall be formed of contiguous counties, in as nearly compact form as circumstances will permit. New circuits may be formed, and the boundaries of circuits and divisions changed by the General Assembly, at its sessions uext preceding the election of the judges of the circuits or divisions sought to be changed, but at no other time: Provided, that the circuits may be equalized or changed at the first session of the General Assembly after the adoption of this Constitution. The creation, alteration or change of any judicial division or judicial circuit shall not affect the tenure of offlce of any judge. The yeas and nays were ordered, and being taken, resulted —yeas 18, nays 41as follows: So the motion to fill the blank with ninety thousand was not agreed to. Mr. ANTHONY. Mr. President: I trust the blank will not be filled by any number. On examination of this section I find it provides that New circuits may be formed, and the boundaries of circuits and divisions changed by the General Assembly at its session next preceding the election of the judges of the circuits or divisions sought to be changed, but at no other time, etc. I have been informed since the ad journment last evening by those who have been strenuous to put a limita tion in the Constitution in respect to num. ber, that if the change is only maie at the time preceding the election of judges of the circuits, it will call attention sufficiently to thie subject to prevent any abuse in regard to that matter. I stated last evening that such a limita x., Forman, Fox, King, Neece, Perley, Sedgwick, NAYS. Goodhue, Hanna, Hart, Harwood, Hayes, Hildrup, McCoy, Merriam, DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 141 APRIL 22, 1870. Wells, Wendling, Wheaton, Whitin WightI!L41. It will certainly be a protection against improper practices. The PRESIDENT. The Chair will state that the resolution is not debatable, one member haViDg responded to the roll call. The result was then announced-yeas 56, iiays 4-as follows: Craig, Eldredge, Ellis, Fuller, Gamble, Goodell, ABSENT, OR NOT VOTING. Sedgwick, Sharp, Sherrill, Snyder Sutherlnd, Tincher, Tubbs, Turner, Underwood, Va.udeventer, Wagner, wait, Washburn, Wendling, Wheaton, Whiting, Wilson' Wright-56. NAYS. Coolbaugh, Forman, Hanna, Wells-4. TEA.$. In, Dement, Ellis, Fox, Goodell, Hankins, Hart, Harwood, NA.YS. Hanna, hayes, llii,Ltrup, IVICUOY, Mediii, Merriam, !Vioure, N e e, — c, Parker, Parks, Pericy, Peire le,:, P..g n,ice, King, ,Sharp, Sjiyder, Suthet-land, Waaner, Wt,hburn, Wilson-21. Scholfi6l.d, Sedgwick, hei-rill, Tlncher, Tubbs, Turtier, Underwood, Vaudeventer, Wait, Wall, Wells, Wlieaton Whiting, Wriglit-42. Anthony, Bayne, Bt-ujainin, Buwliian, Buxton, Cameron, Coolbaugh, Ufa-ig, Cros.5, Eldredge, Furnian, Fuller, Gaiiibie, Go,udllue, AB$ENT, OR NOT VOTING. Abbott, Euglish, Ross, Alle.p- of Crfld, Liaiuei ofCook,6kiuner, Areiier, Jlaines of Llk., Spririger, Atkinr,, "ay, Truet3dale, Brown, McDowell, Wendlin Bryan, Pili,3bury, Mr. Presideutgl-20,. Cody, Pubinsun, Sharp, Snyder, Buttierland, Wagner, WashLburn, Wilson-18. Sherrill, Tincher, Tubbs, Turner, Underwood, Vandeventer, Wait, wall, Bayne, Be-niamin, Bowman, Bromwell, Cameron, Cary, Church, Coolbaugh, 8515 141 COSIUIN-CNETO RDY that anything will be accomplished by me in attemnlpting a further discussion of the matter now. I do not propose to repeat, if I can avoid it, anything i said then. But it is a question, in my estimation, of very great imnportance, and one that ought not to be lightly and slightly passed over. It was said yesterday, by some gentlemen taking part in the discussion, that a limi tation on legislative power in thisregard, is without precedent; that there is no instance in the history of the cnistitu tions of the country, of such a provision. Now, Mr. President, if that were cor rect, I do not see the force of the argu ment. I do not know that we are to be tied down to the precedents of the past, and to be absolutely prohibited from any progress or any improvement upon what has been done by those who have prece ded us. But, sir, it is not correct. I have not examined extensively the Constitutions of other States. I have examined those of New York and Kentucky, and in both there are limitations of population upon the power of the Legislature to multiply judicial circuits,-and the rule of population is a fair and just one. It was further said, Mr. President, that if we adopt a minimum of a hundred thousand, the people throughout the State would rise in their might and majesty and vote down the Constitution. Nto greater mistake in my estimation, could be made in regard to the sentiments of the people-.lhe real people, the masses, the men who have to pay for these additional offices when they are brought into existence. I entertain no doubt at all, that every restraint we im pose upon the legislative power in creation of offices and the multiplication of officers, will commend the Constitution to public favor and to public acceptance, and that the people of the State will accept our work with more alacrity and more cheerfulness, if there be a minimum limitation of two hundred thousand than they well with a limitation of one hundred thousand, and they will accept it more readily with a limitation of one hundred thousand than they will without any restriction upon the power of the Legislature at all. Estimating the population of this State, Mr. President, at three millions, which seems, by common consent, to be regarded as reasonable, and not in excess of what the approaching census will show, the minimum of 100,000 population to a circuit, would give us, inclusive of Cook county, thirty five circuit judges in this State. Estimating the population of Cook at 300,000, it would give us twenty-seven judges outside of that county, and we have already provided for eight additional judges within that county, making an aggregate of thirtyfive circuit judges in this State, whose salaries are to be drawn from the pockets of the people, in addition to all other enormous and onerous burdens of taxation that are already oppressing them. w Now, Mr. President, it is just and right that there should be a limitation; and, in my judgment, 150,000 wouild be a just and appropriate number to fix as the average for circuits of this State. Nor is it true, as is argued by many of those who have taken part in the discussion} that business bears no relation to population. It does bear a relation, and FP.-IDAY, 1418 CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION stantly brought to bear upon the Legislature to provide for these offices when the opportunity is offered. The matter of providing a new judicial circuit would be constantly bef(,,re the Legislature, as a complement to some scheme of "log-rollii3g," and it will always be that a measure of greater importance will be lying in wait to catch up the fragments in the Legislature interested in creatidg an additional office, and the small interests represented in favor of creating offices, will alwavs be ready for some proposition of logrolling and combination, unless some counterpoise is provided. The limitation of permitting a change only at regular periods of six years would to some extent increase the trouble, for those influences would then'be rife and combined for the occasion. Mr. Presideiat, in thinking over this matter, I have come to this conclusion about it. I favored this in the Committee of the Whole-a counterpoise of this kind, and I see no objection to it in principle, although there have beenexpressions against it. I would propose to pay the judges half their salary out of the State tieasury, and provide a docket fee for the balance. We thus create an interest in the judges against unnecessary multiplication of circuits, and against a diminution of their business. How has that operated in our past history? Let us learn something by experience. When were these judgeships so unnecessarily multiplied? It was al. together before the system of a docket fee, under our present Constitution, was inaugurated. The very moment that law went into effect by which a docket fee was given to ajudge, it at once interested every judge in the State, in retaiDiDg as much j urisdiction and bu,3iness as he could perform. It created an interest against the division and multiplication of circuits at once, because the more business is taken from the judge, the more money is taken from him. Circuit judges are like other people. However pure and -patriotic, they inust live, and provide for their families. Mr. WHEATON. Is the gentleman in favor of a circuit judge having an interest in breeding law suits? Mr. HAY. No, sir, not at all. I do not see that it would have that eff,-,ct at a very close relation, a very near approximatiou to the population, where the pursuits of the population are the same. I concede that in commercial and manufacturing communities there will be a greater amount of litigation, there will be a greater amount of business for i tidicial action, than there will be in a purely agricultural community. But what is the character of the population and the business of this State? The population is as nearly homogeneous, and Ebe pursuits as nearly similar, perhaps nearer so, than can be found iii an equal extent of territory anywhere else on our coiatineiit. Outside of the city of Chicago, we have no great commercial emporium, and no. where in the State have we any purely manufacturing communities. I know that, in some particular towns, manufactures have sprung up to a very considerable and gratifying extent, but not enough to characterize them as maL,.ufac. turidg communities. We are essentially an agricultural people, and the agricultural pursuits of the people, from Galena to Cairo, from Chicago to Sliawneetown, are almost the same. There is -very little -diversity no such diversity in their pursuits as will materially affect tl-ie ques,. tion of litigation and judicial businss. If, sir, there are portions of the State outside of Cook county, where i-noie business might be expected than anywhere else, within the borders of the State, we ought to expect that increased and disproportional amount of judicial business in the c;.ty [Quincy] and county [,&dams], which I in part represent. It is the second city in population, in couamercial business, in manufacturing production, in the State; and I know that with a population of 125,000 in that circuit, our judge is, to-day willing to accept at least 30,000 more, and says he will not be overtaxed. I know that, in the circuit represented in part by the gentleman from Fulton rMr. CUMMiDgs], and the gentleman from Pike [Mr. Archer], there is still a'greater amount of population thau in our own circuit, and I know that the judge there iS'WilliDg to accept still more, and not feel that he has been hardly dealt by. Now, the proposition of my friend from Sangamon [Mr. Hay], is worse in my judgmentthana limitationof 75,000. 1 APRIL 22-, 1870. DEBATES AD PROCEEDINGS. 141w i sert ninety thousand, it must have been made with oe some such purpose. Mr. DEMENT. Mr. President: I wish [ to make a few remarks; and wish to pre face them by expressing my surprise at ithe course of some of the honorable del egates from Cook county, who have ob tained a constitutional restriction in favor of that county. AiMr. President: I forget whether I have made any remarks upon the subject of numbers or not. The PRESIDENT. The minutes of the Chair do not show that the gentle man from Lee [tr. Dement] has spoken upon this subject. ,Mr. DENIESI'. Mr. President: I will , then claim the indulgence of the Con; vention to very briefly express myself on this subject. I will preface what I have to say with an expression of surprise that honorable delegates from Cook county should come forward and make resis tance to this effort to protect the people of this State by the reasonable restric3 tions, upon the Legislature, against un- limited multiplication of circuits. In the ;sections in the article relating to Cook county, as adopted in Committee of the Whole, they have obtained a provision for as many circuit judges for that coun ty as they desire, and by constitutional restriction, but when we ask provisions for the protection of the people in the balance of the State, and in our locality, they opposed it, and ask that the subject shall be submitted to the discretion, un restricted, of future Legislatures. I hope the gentlemen, if they will not put rea sonable restrictions in relation to the number of circuits upon the balance of the State, will, when we come to consider the sections relative to the courts of Cook county, throw down these restric tions, and leave it to the General Assem bly to say how many judges they shall have in that county. As the selfishness'of circuit judges has been alluded to, as to their opposition to reducing circuits, when perquisites were also to be reduced, and as they are not here upon this floor, I will ask the Con vention to consider whether we are all entirely free from the imputation of sel fishness in the organization of the divis ions for supreme judges, and in the ar rangements some are proposing of leaving the Legislature at liberty to make as many circuits as it may wish —or as to who shall occupy the bench of these divisions, for the supreme judges, or, finally, as to who is to fill these numerous circuits, that may be provided for, if gentlemen succeed in striking out the rev strictions now in the article. But, sir, ill order to relieve the members of the Convention of any suspicion ~of having any selfish motives, I believe it is due to the members of this Convexly tion that we should insert the following amendment. Insert after "1870" in the twenty-sixth line of section five, the following: "And no member of this Convention shall be eligible to the office of supreme or circuit judge at such electioni." This amendment applies, and is in harmony with the section, where I propose to put it. Allow me to say, sir, that I look upon it in this way —that we should relieve the country of apprehension that we are legislating to make places for ourselves. When we return to our constituentsfI some great swindle is being carried through. i If there are circuits that require more facilities for doing business, why not f equalize circuits instead of increasing the number of circuits and judges in the f State? The county court article that we adopted yesterday, allows the Legislature to confer other jurisdiction upon the coun ty courts. Now, sir, if there are any circuits in the State where the circuit court cannot [ do the business, there is an opportunity, [ through the county courts, to relieve them. Where there are circuits, as we are credibly informed, where the judges are L engaged in their judicial capacity only about fourteen weeks in a year, and also one circuit where eight weeks suffice what excuse can be urged for increasing the number of circuits and judges? I am not certain that this is the circuit in which the gentleman from Wayne [Mr. Hanna] resides. Mr. HANNA. North of the one I re si de in. Mr. CARY. When we know such facts as these exist, I ask this Convention if they do not consider it an outrage on the tax payers of the State to increase the number of circuits? Now, Mr. President, I move to insert one hundred and ten thousand; I believe that number has not been voted upon. Mr. HAYES. I rise to a point of order. After a vote has commenced on a series of numbers, it is not in order to move to insert another number; because the vote, as already taken, might have been d fier ent if the numbers had been proposed before the vote was taken. The PRESIDENT. The point of or der is well taken. The Chair called for the suggestion of numbers, and a full opportunity was given to suggest any num ber. The Chair, however, hearing no objection, entertained the proposition of the gentleman from Coles [Mr. Bromwell], to insert eighty th(iusand, but will apply the rule, and exclude it. The question is upon the insertion of seventy-five thousand. Mr. WASHBURN. I would suggest that the number "one hundred thousand" was proposed yesterday evening. The PRESIDEN r. It was proposed, but inasmuch as the Convention had just stricken out one hundred thousand it was not in order to suggest it. The object of the gentleman can only be accomplished by reconsidering the action of the Convention by which that number was stricken out. Mr. CARY. Is not the motion for one hundred and ten thousand now in order? The PRESIDENT. A point of order was made by the gentleman from Cook [Mr. Hayes], and sustained by the Chair, that it was too late to suggest numbers. The numbers were suggested yesterday on the call of the Chair. rMr. BROWNING. I think that on a question of such importance as this, members ought to be permitted to vote for any number. They are not suggested captiously, or with any disposition to delay business. Mr. BENJAMIN. The suggestion was made that this motion to insert one hundred and ten thousand was not made in order to delay business. Now, it seems to me, that after the defeat of the motion to in to the Legislature that it was to o much for one man to receive, and ought to be divided; and the circuit would be divided to provide a place for another. Mr. President, I desire t o place myselw upon the record upon this subject. I wish to let it be known by the people of the State, that I, at least, have made an effort to correct the abuse that has been complained of heretofore. [Here the hammner fell.] ],lr. BROOMWELL. Mr. President: I wish to suggest an amendment which, I think, should be offered at the proper time, and wlhich, I think, will utterly ex clade all the objections that have been made. The PRESIDENT. The gentleman from Coles [Mr. Bromwell] has addressed the Convention once upon the question of striking out and inserting. The gentle man from Sangamion [Mr. Hay] did not move the proposition upon which he has addressed the Convention. Mr. BROMWELL. Mr. President: The question of striking out and insert ing is one which can properly be divided. The PRESIDENT.'the question is not in such a position that any gentleman can address the Convention upon each and every number suggested. It is one question. If treated as several questions, of course it would be possible to suggest fiftyy different numbers, upon each of which gentlemen could speak, and the rule would have no practical effect what ever. Mr. BRO3IWELL. Mr. President: I merely wish to suggest the proposition for intormation. The PRESIDENT. It may be suggested for information, and afterwards it may perhaps be presented, if it is in order. Mr. BROMNWELL. Mr. President: I wish to insert this: After the number of circuits shall be fixed, the General Assembly shall, in all cases, aprportion the circuits according to the amount of judicial business, throughout the State. And that amendment being adopted, in connection with this, will take away all the objections which the gentlemen have urged. Mr. CARY. Mr. President: I have no doubt that if it had not been for the law of the Legislature allowing docket fees to judges, under our present Constitutiod, there would be at the present time at least ten more judicial circuits in this State than we now have. Now, sir, if this opinion is correct —and I have no doubt of its correctness —it does seem to me that we should put some limitation in the Constitution against the indiscrimi:nate creation of new circuits i,n the State. They are not needed. The wants of the people do not require thema, and there is no necesssty for them in any view in which the case can be considered. They create useless and burdensome tax upon the percale. When we are told here by members who are qualified to judge who know the sltuation of affairs in the various circuits-that there are circuit courts now that have at least one hundred thousand population, where the judges are not employed more than from eight to fourteen weeks a year, there is certainly no necessity of creating new circuits. The -constant drain from the treasury by this needless increase of judicial districts, comes as near robbing the treasury as the Legislature usually goes) unless wh~ i r t t i r 8 t APRIL 22, 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1419 1420 COSTITUTIOAL COYETJON FRIDAY, In a district adjoining that in which I live, there were only eight weeks of court last year. In the circuit in which I practice, there were about fourteen weeks of court. Those two circuits could be thrown together, if it were not for the extraordinary amount of travel in going from county to county. For that reason, I was in favor of diminishing the number of circuits by re-arranging them. I believe an active man can hold courts in circuits of one hundred and twenty-five thousand or one hundred and thirty thousand population in Southern Illinois, but I have not voted here to force that rule, because gentlemen practicing in other districts with which I am not acquainted, say (and I am bound to accept th eir word), that, in their localities, that cannot be done. Because I am satisfied it can be done in the part of the State I represent, is no reason why I should vote for an inflexible rule for others, which would amount to a prohibition of justice. The gentleman from Sangamon [Mr. Hay] suggests that we adopt the docketfee system in this Constitution. I hope that will not be done. It simply amounts to a tax on an unfortunate class of persons. Here is a man in debt to his neighbor and unable to pay. It becomes nec essary for the creditor to resort to courts of justice, which should ever be free and ocpen, to collect the debt. But, biecause the debtor is so unfortunate as not to be able to pay the debt when due, this Convention would say he shall pay in addition something for the support of the judge-a fee for entering thile judgment against him. It is a principle I am not willing to recognize. I am willing to leave this to the Legislature, and create no restriction. If they abuse that privilege, let the people hold them responsible. Whether it works well in practice or not, it is certainly the true theory that Legislatures are just as honest and competent to regulate these matters as Conventions. I am opposed to the docket-fee system, because it is a tax on an unfortunate class for a thing for which they are not responsible. There is another consideration. When this question was under discussion, in Committee of the Whole, I brought for hward an amendment of this kind, which I think is more just than any other pre sented-that we should so arrange that no circuit should be formed in which the records did not show that court had been held six or eight months per year, for the preceding two years. i hen let the Legislature change the circuits as they see fit, but nowhere diminish a circuit so as to diminish the work below eight smonths ayear, as shown by the records. That would wore no hardship and would put a limitation upon the power of diminishing circuits. I believe, with the gentleman from Cook [Mr. Anthony], that the present restriction with regard to these circuits, that they shall be changed only once inl six years, together with the honor of the Legislature and with their knowledge, which we cannot now foresee in arranging them, is a sufficient safeguard, and for that reason I shall continue to vote against any restriction whatever, more than the restriction found in the other clause of the Constitution. F.RIDATI CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION 1420 Mr. CARY. Mr. President: I move that the motion to strike out be reconsidered. Mr. WHEATON. Mr. President: I rise to a point of order. There is now pending a mot-',on to insert seventy five thousand, that has not been acted upon. A motion to reconsider it, as suggested by the Chair, will allow numbers already acted upon by the Convention to be reproposed ad infinitum, without any opportunity to vote on the seventy five thousadd now pending. Mr. BRO,-NIWELL. Mr. President: believe that the question of reconsideration is a privileged question? The PRESIDENT. The Chair will state to the gentleman from Kane [,Nlr. Wheaton] that therb is an express rule of the Convention, that a motion to reconsider shall take precedence of every other motion except a motion to ad' The question is upon the motion to reconsider. Mr. CARY. Mr. President: I call for the eas and iaays. Mr. HAYES. Mr. President: I feel as though a remark or two would come. properly from me, in answer to the arraigumeiat of the gentleman from Lee [Mr. Dement]. I have no feelidg, at all, about this question of the ratio which shall govern the formation of the judicial circuits in the State. I did not propose to say a SiDgle word upon the subject, but was satisfied With VOtiDgaccordiDg to the dic — tates of my judgment. But,, when the gentleman from Lee [Mr. Deinetit], fol1OWiDg an example which has bceu set by some other gentlemen, heretofore, in this Coiiveiatiou, arraigns the whole dele — gation from Cook county, for our course, and particularly arraigns me for rising to a question of order, I feel it due ta myself to say soiuething upon the question; and, in doing so, to explain i-ny own position as a member! of the (,o vention. I -lid not come here fc7 the purpose of representing any particular local interest in the city of Chicago. I did not coi-iie here to carry out the designs or purposes or plans, political or otherwise, of any set of politicians, business men or any other class of men in the city of Chicqgo, or any where else. Therefore, when any hope we will be able to show that by the adoption, at the proper time and place, of tile amendment I have read. Let our action correspond with our words-that we do not believe all the honesty, patriotism and purity in the State of Illinois is embodied here. Now, sir, I wish to say the gentlemen from Cook may not only turn back upon us, in this case, but in others, and if this course of reviewing and reversion of our former action is to go on, we never will finish our business. Mr. A.LNTIIONY. Mr. President: Will the gentltmaii allow me? Mr. DELAENT. Alr. President: I do not yield. The gentleman has said enough UPOD this subject, to my mind. I was about saying, sir, that, after we had arranged this article, section by sec tion, and all apparently satisfied with them, the gentlemen from C ook may, exulting in their strength in this Convention, iiitrenched in their position by coustitutioilal restrictions in their favor, for their judges, go back upon other sectiods, and upon the balance of the State, outside of Cook county, and cut us off from our efforts by raising questions of or'aer. I hope the gentlemen will at least give us a reasonable restriction, and not insist upon the technic'alities of rules. The PRESIDE.N'T. The Chair will say that the object of the gentleman from Jo Daviess LMr. Cary] can be accomplished by reconsidering the vote by which 100,000 was stricken out. And then it will be subject to amendment. The reason of the rule is obvious. If many numbers are suggested, and the sense of the Convention taken upon each and each rejected, and the rule were otherwise, it would still be possible to propose numbers between those acted upon, and, therefore, as a protection against such protracted action, the Chair deems it proper to sugoest another mode In of proceeding. Mr. HANNA. Mr. President Mr. CARY. Mr. President: Will the geittlemaix allow me I Nir. flkNNA. I hope the gentleman from JoDaviess [,Idr. Cary] will allow me to make just one or tworemarks. When this subject was under discussion, I -was in favor of allowing this limitation. I did not vote yesterday, though API - 80 EAE N RCEIG.12 toward her, and if I expressed myself otherwise, it was not my wish to do so. Mr. HAYES. I am happy to be informed.by my friend from Lee [Mr. Dement], that his purpose was not to threaten the members from Cook. I understood he advised the Convention to vote differently from what it had heretefore on Cook county matters, if the members from Cook county should persist in the course to which the gentleman excepts. I will only add, in conclusion, that I do not conceive that the purpose had in view by the gentleman from Sangamon [MIr. Hay] will be obtained simply from adoption of the docket fees. While I am in favor of a moderate docket fee, I do rot believe that it would prevent abuse in the creation of new circuits. I think it is necessary to have a limitation of the kind proposed. I vote for the smallest restriction. Mr. GOODHIUE. Mr. President: I assure the members of the Convention that I have no anxiety to discuss this question any further; but at the same time I am impelled by a sense of duty to my constituents and to the portion of the State which I in part represent, to, for the last time, enter my protest against the scheme which is being adopted, or which i3 threatened in relation to our judicial circuits. Now, I desire to call the attention of this Convention to the effect, which, in my judgment, would be produced by the adoption of any number as the basis of our judicial circuits; and in the outset I admit that I am perfectly satisfied that 75,000 or 90,000, or even 100,000, if the rule were properly applied in accordance with the amount of business performed in the various judicial circuits, would give us a sufficient number of judges in this State for the performance of our judicial business. I am entirely satisfied that more judges, upon the basis of 90,000 inhabitants, could be secured in the State than are necessary. I am then asked why it is that I insist that 100,000 shall not be adopted as the basis of the circuits; and the answer is ready and at hand, furnished by every gentleman who is insisting upon 100,000. I insist that every single argument in favor of 100,000 is an argument in favor of the position I assume. Gentlemen insist that they dare not trust the Legislature in apportioning these judicial circuits upon the basis of business alone. They admit that the fair basis to be established for the division of our judicial circuits, would be the amount of judicial business transacted and performed in the circuits of the State. There is no attempt to escape from this. No attempt is made to deny it, and if there should be, it would be in the face of reason and common sense. Now, what do they fear? It is that the General Assembly will not have sufficient self-respect to apply the rule. That is what I fear. If there is any apprehension of this kind from the Legislature, in my judgment, these apprehensions should increase upon us when we consider that there are those who are urging the propriety of engrafting one hundred thousand upon the Constitution of this State, to meet the danger. I have no anxiety to press this question, unless in accordance with what I conceive to be my duty to those whom I represent. What creates an additional apprehen opinion, and some another. My colleague [.Air. Anthony] is opposed to all restrictions. I am in favor of a low restriction. fly colleague [Mr. Haines] is in favor of a high restriction. We do not agree at all; but the very moment a delegate from Cook c)unty expresses his opinion on this floor, or gives a vote, he is threatened by members, that somethingwill be done to Cook county that will be terrible. In regard to the point of order that I raised, I will say that I raised it without any desire to cut off amendments, but only to htasten the business of the Convention. I did suppose that, after having taken a vote upon 120,00, and another upon 90,000, both of them being unsuc. cessful, there could be no good reason for taking a vote on 110,000; but I would not now insist upon the point of order, if there appeared to be any reason for trying the question again, or even an urgent wish on the part of gentlemen that we should do so. A word or two upon the main question. I hold that there ought to be a restriction in the Constitution. I hold that it is not best to leave it in the power of the General Assembly, either at any particular time or at all times, to create any number of circuits, in the State, that they, in their judg-ment, may desire to create. I am in favor ok a restriction, and was in favor of 75,000 when it passed in the Committee on the Judiciary. I was in favor of 90,000 when it was adopted in Committee of the Whole, and I am now in favor of restriction, but I do not wish one adopted which will destroy or impair the right of the people to have their causes heard in the courts of justice. We are a great State, a growing State. The population is increasing, but more than that, the business of the State is increasing, and I do not wish to see inserted in the Constitution for all time, a limitation, which will prevent the proper administration of justice in this State. Therefore, I am bound by my convictions to take a middle course. I am bound to vote for a limitation which, according to the representation of members who are practicing law, is necessary to enable causes to be reached in all the courts and circuits, and, at the same time, one which will prevent the abuse of power in creating judicial circuits. I think seventyfive thousand is that proper limitation. I am willing to vote for thaS. If the limitation be stricken out entirely, parties may form a combination at a session of the General Assembly, di vide out the different counties of the State into small judic ial circuits, and pension upon the treasury of the State a large number of persons, who will do very little for the money they receive. That I am opposed to. 3It. DEMIENT. I wish to ask the gentleman whether, when he spoke of threats beinlg made against Cook county, he alluded to me? Mr. HAYES. I did refer to the gentleman. :3{rI. D:EMENT7. I do not understand that i made any threats. I only referred to the subject, and hoped, as a matter of consistenlcy, the members of Cook county themselves would strike out the restrictions that relate to Cook county. This is the first time in this Convention that I have alluded to Cook county; I have always felt kindly and generouSTy I APP.IL 22 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1421 sion on my part is, that whenever we establish in the Constitution of this State a basis for the number of our judicial circuits, whenever the Legislalure come to act upthat question; whenever they come to sit down and examine the queStiOD, with a view to the division of our judicial circuits, they will at ouce look at the number which is furnished, and they will act upon that without any thorough consideration of the amount of the judicial business performed in the circuits. There will be a disposition on their part to discharge their duties as easily and with as little trouble as is possible, and right here in this Constitution they will be enabled to point to a provision which authorizes them to make as many judicial circuits as they possibly can upon the basis of one hundred thousand inhabitants to a district. Now, again, when the Legislature come to investigate this matter, when they come to act upon this question, the danger is that in those circuits from which we have heard upon this floor, where gentlemen have told us that a judge could do the business of a circuit comprisiog one hundred and fifty or two hundred, or two hu. ndred and fifty thousand inhabitants, the very men or their represeiatatives in the Legislature will insist that the districts should uot be so large. They will at once furnish verv st-.-on — arguments against making them so large; they will at once say "If you put together five or six counties, and more, you coi-npel a judge to be traveling constantly through the counties, you throw upon him additional expense, you compel him to leave his home under all these embarrassing circumstances," and consequently, a very strong influence will be brought to bear upon the Legislature for the purpose of making these judiciallcircuits as small as possible, and ignoring the amount of business that is being performed in these judicial circuits. If they do that-for that is the pressure which may be anticipated upon the Legislature in various parts. of the State-tliein, as a matter of' course, the more they press in that direction the more they encroach UDon th. rights and privileges of another portion of the State, and the more they endanger the transaction of the business of our cir 142 COSIUINLC-Y~i RDY Mr. BROMWELL. Mr. President: I am speaking to the question of reconsid eration. Gentlemen have been informed over and over again, that this is merely a prop osition to limit the number of circuits in the State, but on a sliding scale. And here comes in a second misunder standing. Gentlemen insist on talking as though this were fixing a limitation, for all time, to the number of judges, whereas it will furnish as large a number of judges, according to population, when the State shall have ten millions as it does to-day. Now, by the calculation of the gentle man from Adams [Mr. Browning], the limitation of one hundred thousand would give us twenty-nine judges to day. Is that not enough? What more do gentlemen want who stand here declaring that they have but a few weeks of judicial service rendered in the circuits in which they reside. The gentlemen from Will [Mr. Goodhue] talks continually as though this would cramp his circuit, although I have before offered to insert an amendment which would compel the Legislature to apportion these circuits according to a basis of judicial business. Yet, it has been made a subject of complaint, within fifteen minutes, that we are seeking to apportion circuits irrespective of busi ness. Sir, there has never been a member who advocated inserting a number here who proposed to limit a circuit according to population-and the gentleman knows it. It has been twenty times re-echoed in their hearing that this was a proposition not to limit a circuit according to population, but to limit the circuits in the State according to population. In the name of heaven, what is more reasonable and proper than that there should be a maximum number of circuits in the State? This is not fixing a minimum, sir, but fixing a maximum. It is not a minimump of population but a maximum of circuits. I do think it is time for gentlemen to drop this misunderstanding. If this Convention does not want a limitation, I am satisfied. I would n(,t contend. What I contend against is not that they oppose a limitation, but that they insist on setting up something to oppose which has never been offered, and thus misrepresent the question before the Convention and the public. I beg leave to suggest that the people for whom they manitest such extravagant deference on some occasions demand a reduction of expenditures a cessation of paying judges salaries for sitting in a circuit, as one gentleman admits is done, eight weeks in the year. We are raising these salaries to three thousand dollars. Let gentlemen reflect upon that. Thirty judges in the State at three thousend dollars a year, are ninety thousand dollars a year. Is not that enough to pay without setting the Legislature free to listen to every judge who wants a county taken off his circuit that he may have less labor to perform; that his friends may run through a bill, saying to the Legislature, "It does not concern any body but our county an d our circuit?" And so it will go. Then, year by year, circuits will be trimmed down, not to suit the people, but to suitH the convenience of judges. As to the suggestion to tack on thisA abominated docket-fee to the tail end of A this Constitution, in orde r toinduce j udges to hold to their territory, I cannot tol erate it for a moment. The docket-fee does stink in the nostrils of the public, and everybody knows it. It is a tax o n justice, and in many cases an onerous tax on poverty. It is wrung by execution from those already, as suggested by the gentleman from Wayne [Mr. Hanna], probably without means to pay what they justly owe and ought to pay. I do ask this Convention to reflect a moment, that we are but limiting the number of judges; that thirty judges now are enough, and that this is actually a sliding scale, and gives, in proportion as the State increases, an additional num ber, always in the same proportion. It is proposed in good faith, and I intend at the first opportunity to offer this amend ment: The apportionment of the circuits by the General Assembly shall be made according to judicial business and labor throughout the State. Then, what becomes of all the argu ments urged against this measure, on the ground that these northern counties are crowded? Mr. W HEATON. Mr. President: The question, as I understand it, is on the motion to reconsider. Some gentlemen upon this floor have made three or four speeches, substantially on the same question. I, therefore, move the previous question. The motion for the previous question was agreed to, and the main question ordered. The yea's and nays were ordered on the motion to reconsider. Mr. TURNER. Mr. President: I desire to be excused from voting upon this question; and the reason is, that 1 do not want to vote after the very severe and unmerited censure which has been cast upon some of us by the gentleman from Coles [Mr. Bromwell], without any opportunity to reply. Mr. SEDGWICK. Mr. President: I move that the gentleman be excused. The motion was agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon reconsidering the striking out from the amendment of the Committee of the Whole the words " one hundred thousand." The Secretary proceeded to call the roll. The-result was then announced —yeas, 38, nays 21 —as follows: Turner, Underwood, Vandeventer, Wait, Wall, Wells, Wendling, Wheaton, Whiting-29. YEAS. McCov, Merriam, Moore Parker, Parks, Perley, Rice, Sherrill, Springer, Tincher, WAYS. Abbott, Dement, Medill, Allen of Alex,Ellis, Poage, Anderson, Forman, Scholfield, Bromwell, Fox, Sedgwick, Browning, Goodell,' Sharp, Buxton, Haines of Co'k,Snyder, Cary, Hankins, Sutherland, Church, Hanna, Tubbs, Cody, Hart, Wagner, Cross, Hildrup, Washburn, Cummings, Kinz, Wilson-33. ABSENT, OR NOT VOTING. Allen of Cr'fd, Cooibaugh, Pillsbury, Archer, English, Robinson, Atkins, Haines of Lake, Ross, Bowman, Harwood, Skinner, Brown, McDowell, Truesdale, Bryan, Neece, Wright, Cameron, Peirce, Mr. President-21. So the motion to lay the motion to reconsider on the table was not agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon reconsidering the vote by which 100,000 was stricken out. Mr. BROMWELL. Mr. President: I woald not speak at this time if it were not that the gentlemen seem to insist upon misunderstanding this question. They insist upon understanding this proposition as one to limit the population of a circuit. Mr. WELLS. Mr. President: I rise to a point of order. The gentleman is not speaking to the question. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the reconsideration of the vote by which one hundred thousand was stricken out. Mr. WELLS. Mr. President: He is not speaking to the question of the number..... TEAS. Abbott, Ellis, Allen of Alex.Forman, Anderson, Fox, Anthony, Fuller, Bromwell, Gamble, Browning, Goodell, Buxton, Haines of C'k, Cary, Hankins, Church, Hanna, Cody, Hart, Cross, Harwood, Cummings, Ilildrup, Dement, King, NAYS. Bayne,' Benjamin, Craig, Eldredge, Goodhue, Hay, Hayes, 1422 CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION FP.IDA-T) move, therefore, to lay the motion to reconsider upon the table. The yeas and nays were ordered. The Secretary proceeded to call the roll. Mr. BUXTON (before the result was announced) said: Mr. President: The gentleman from Brown [Mr. Vandeventer] has not voted. Mr. VANDEVENTER. Mr. President: I ask to be excused from voting. ["Object," "object."] The PRESIDENT. Under the rule the Lyentleman -should have asked to be excused before the calling of the roll. He cannot be excused, if objection be made. Mr. FOX. Mr. President: I move that the gentleman be excused from VOtiDg. Mr. BUXTON. Mr. President: I call for the yeas and nays. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the motion of the gentleman from Schuyler [lvlr. Fox], to excuse from voting the gentlenaa,.i from Brown [Mr. Vandeventer]. Upon this motion the yeas and nays are demanded. Mr. VANDEVENTER. Mr. President: I vote "Aye." The result was then announced-yeas, 29; nays, 33-as follows: Anthony, Baye,.. Benjamin, Cralg Eldre4ge, Fuller, Gamble, Goodhue, Hay, Hayes, Neece, Park6r. Poage, - Sedgwick, Sha7rp, Sny(f,6r, 8-6theriand, Tubbs, Wagner, Wasliburn, Well,-, Wilson-38 McCoy, Medil7l'' Merriam, Moore, Peri,-Y, Sherrill, Springer, Tincher, Underwood, Wait, Wall' .Wendling, Wheaton Whiting-O,l. .&BSENT OR NOT VOTING. Allen of Crlfd.,English, Ross, Archer, Haines ofL'W, Scholfield, APRIL 22,1870. DEBATES AD PROCEEDIGS. 1423 sentiments of the gentlemen before me,) that no one of the very eminent generals of the army, distinguished, as so many of them are for brilliant and effective action in the service of their country, so kindles the enthusiasm of the people of the State we here represent, as Gen. Sheridan, to whom I now have the honor of presenting the gentlemen of the Convention. GENERAL SHERIDAN. Mr. President: I thank you very kindly for your very pleasant reception this morning. When I came here to Springfield, I came with the intention of seeing it, and this portion of the State, and did not expect to have this very great and unexpected pleasure of meeting the members of this Convention. I assure you, that I thank you very cordially, gentlemen, and from the bottom of my heart, for the kindness shown me this morning. The PRESIDENT. A recess of fifteen minutes will, by general consent, be ordered. Atkins, McDowell, Skinner, Bowman, Parks, Truesdale, Brown, Peirce, Turner, Bryan, Pillsbury, Vandeventer, Cameron, Rice, Wright Coolbaugh, Robinson, Mr. President-24 So the motion to reconsider was agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the striking out of 100,000. Mr. WELLS. I rise to make an inquiry. It was the understanding of myself and other gentlemen, that the question just voted upon was the ordering of the previous question. The PRESIDENT. The gentleman is correct in his apprehension. Mr. BROWNING. I think the Chair is mistaken. The gentleman from Ste. phenson [Mr. Turner], after the previous question was ordered, asked to be excused from voting on the main question, which was whether or not the vote, by which one hundred thousand was stricken out, should be reconsidered. The President stated to the Convention that the question to be taken was whether the voteof the Convention, in striking out one hundred thousand, should or should not be reconsidered, and the Convention has voted upon that. The PRESIDENT. The recollection of the' gentleman from Adams [Mr. Browning] differs from that of the gentleman from Peoria [Mr. Wells]. Mr. BROWNING. And the President announced that the motion to reconsider was decided in the affirmative. The PRESIDENT. The Chair was under that apprehension. Mr. BROWNING. The President was correct. Mr. HAINES, of Cook. Mr. President: My apprehension is that the vote upon the motion for the previous question was taken viva voce. The PRESIDENT. That was the first impression of the Chair. The gentleman from Peoria [Mr. Wells] insisted otherwise. Mr. TURNER. Mr. President: I did not ask to be excused until after the previous question was ordered. The PRESIDENT. The question now is upon the motion to strike out 100,000. Mr. WELLS. Mr. President: I must insist, if it still be in order, that the gentleman from Stephenson [MIr. Turner] asked to be excused froml voting on the previous question. Oft. FOX. Mr. President: I rise to a point of order. The Chair has decided the point of order, and the gentleman from Peoria [Mr. Wells] is discussing it, and is out of corder. The PRESIDENT. The gentleman from Peoria [Mr. W~ells] is out of order. The first recollection of the Chair comports with the general recollection of the Convention. RlECEPTION OF LIEUJT. GENq. SHERIDAN. Mr. CAMERON. Mr. FEresidenlt: i wish to introduce Lieut. Gen. Sheridan to the Convention. The PRESIDENT. Genetal, I have been deputed by the members of this Convention, to tender to you, and the distinguished officer of your staff, Gert. Forsyth, their most cordial greeting and salutation. It is no formal duty that they have imposed upon me, and ought not to be performed with formaal eulogy. You will permit me, however, to say, (for to this extent at least, I ought to express t i YEAS. Anthony, Hayes, Bayne,.- McCoy, Benjamin, Medill, Cameron, Merriam, Craig, Moore, Eldredge, Parker, Fuller, Parks, Goodhue, Peirce, Hanna Poage, Hay, Springer, NAYS. Abbott, Dement, Allen of Alex.,Ellis, Anderson, Forman, Bowman, Fox, Bromwell, Gamble, Browning, Goodell, Buxton, Haines of Coo] Cary, Hankins, Church, Hart, Cody, Harwood, Cross, Hildrup, Cummings, King, JUDICIAL DEPARTMENT-AGAIN. The PRESIDENT. Before the recess, a question was raised by the gentleman from Peoria [Mr. Wells] as to whether the yeas and nays had been call,d upon the motion for the previous -question, or upon the motion to reconsider. The Chair recollects stating the question as a question of reconsideration, distinctly to a gentleman who rose to inquire what the question was. These genttenmen may, it is true, have voted under a misapprehension. In order to verify the recollection of the Chair, the Chair has consulted the minutes of the Secretary, and finds that the previous question was ordered by a viva voce vote, whereupon the question arose upon reconsideration. The yeas and nays were ordered, and the gentleman from Stephenson [M r. Turner], was excused from voting upon that question. The motion to reconsider, therefore, has prevailed, and the question stands as if no action had been taken by the Convention. The question is upon striking out from the amendment as reported by the Committee of the Whole to the thirteenth section, the words "one hundred thousand." Mr. PARKS. Mr. President: I am satisfied that a large number of gentlemen in the Convention voted under a misapprehension. Some of them did not vote at all, and it does seem to me that in justice to them this vote ought to be takeni again. Mr. BROMWELL. Mr. President. I wish to suggest to the gentleman and others, that the whole Convention can see that the Chair is right, because the gentleman from Stephenson [Mir. Turner] arose and asked to be excused on the ground that the previous question had been ordered; and the gentleman was excused accordingly. Mr. HAYES. Mr. President: I do not think there can be a question but that the Chair is right in its recollection, and I would say to the gentleman from Logan [Mr. Parks] that he has now the opportunity, if he can get the votes, as he thinks he can, to sustain his view of this subject, because the whole matter is now open, and the vote will be taken again upon the motion to strike out one hun ABSENT, OR NOT VOTING. Allen of Cr'fd., English, Ross, Areher, Haines of LakeScholfield, Atkins, McDowell, Snyder, Brown, Pillsbury, Skinner, Bryan, Rice, Truesdale, Coolbaagh, Robinson, Mr. President-18. So the motion to strike out from the amendment made by the Committee of of the Whole, to section thirteen of the judiciary article, the words "one hundred thousand," was not agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the concurrence with the amendment of the report of the Committee of the Whole. Mr. ANTHONlY. Mr. President: I would move to further amend, by inserting, after the word "circuit," in the second line, these words: Having due regard to business, territory and population; Which is "he language in the Constitu. tion of the State of Kentucky. Mr. HAY. Is a further amendment in order? The PRESIDENT. An amendment to the amendment would be in order, but not an independent amendment. Mr. TURNER. I would inquire if this is in order. I understand the amendment of the gentleman from Cook [Mr. Anthony] is an amendment to the section. The PRESIDENT. It is in form an amendment to the report of the Commit. tee of the Whole, and is in order. Mr. HAY. Mr. President: I move to further amend by adding the following: Provided, That the General Assembly shall create no circuit where the records of the courts, for the two years previous thereto, shall not show the circuit court therein to have been in session for at least eight monthi of the year, of the said two years. The principle of that is the same as that of the amendment suggested by the gentleman from Wayne [Mr. Hanna]; and I am satisfied that there is this advantage in it. If the Convention adhere to the minimum of one hundred thousand population, while it is conceded that in tle aggregate that would afford a sufflcient a number of circuit judges in the State, if properly distributed with refer APP.IL 22, 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS., 1 423 dred thousand, which is the pending question. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the motion to strike out "one hundred thousand." The yeas and nays were ordered, and, beidg taken, resulted-yeas, 29; nays, 36-as follows: Tincher, Turner, Underwood, Vandeven ter, Wait, Wall" wells, Wheaton, Whiting-29. 1421 COSTIT UTIONAL GOYETIOX FRIDAY, most the third Monday of the next month, and did no business. This is preeisely the way this thing will work with circuit judges. Allow them to be appointed in proportion to the number of days they hold court, as has been suggested, and there is not a judge who will not hold court three hundred and sixty-five days in a year. Mr. DEMENT. Sundays excepted. Mr. TURNER. No, sir; they will not except Sundays. We have fixed one hundred thousand as the minimum. Gentlemen cannot, now th a t. they have fixed the minimum, do anything which will neutralize it, because it cannot become neutralized. It means one hundred thousand, and amounts to nothing else. There is not a circuit in the northern part of the State that will not have its one hundred thousand -not one. Therefore, let us take the matter clean and simple. If we have the pill to take, I propose we swallow it, and be done with it, without any sugar-coating. Mr. WALL. I desire to suggest a substitute for the amendment of the gentleman from Cook [Mr. Anthony], and that of the gentleman from Sangamon [Mr. Hay]. The Secretary read the substitute offered by Mr. Wall, as follows: The circuits to be made as nearly equal as may be, one with another, having due regard to business, territory and population. Mr. WALL. Mr. President: I object to placing in the Constitution a limitation upon the circuits as to number of weeks or number of months that the judges have been found to occupy during the year. My friend from Stephenson [Mr. Turner], seems to suppose that the judges of the southern portion of the State will take advantage of such a provision to lengthen out their time of holding courts, and for the sake of increasing the number of circuits in that portion of the State. The suggestion of the gentleman, it seems to me, is wholly gratuitous. I do not think he has any occasion to make such an intimation; but whether he has or not, I as much as he, am opposed to such a limitation. What we want to get at is to make the circuits as nearly equal as may be, and to have as few as possible. Gentlemen in some parts of the State object to the limitation of 100,000, because they say that 100,000 populatinC in one part of the State will furnish twice as much business as the same number in a different part of the State. It is proposed by the gentleman from Cook L[Mr. Anthony], to amend by saying that the circuits shall be constructed with regard to territory and population. Mr. ANTHONY. Having "due regard to business, territory and population." Mr. WALL. The gentleman from Sangamon [Mr. Hay] wants a limitation fixing the circuits by the length of time occupied by the several judges. I propose to consolidate both in the amendment I offer, putting in no limitation as 'to time, but simply a general direction to the General Assembly to equalize circuits by making them as nearly equal as may be, having regard to the three considerations, of business, territory, and population. I think it will be unwise to lay down an iron rule and say no circuits shall bee created unless it is shown by the business b of the two preceding years, that the judge had been occupied eight months in the year. I think it is a limitation we wi ll be unwilling to stand to hereafter. I insist that we should not make such a rule, but should provide some general direction as to how these circuits shall be equalized, having regard to business, territory, and population; and I want a positive mandatory provision, compelling the equalization of the circuits, by these considerations. The PRESIDENT. The substitute would not be in order for the proposition, but would be in order for one of the amendments. Mr. SHARP. Mr. President: I move to lay both a,mendments upon the table. Mr. ANTHONY. Mr. President: I call for a division of the question. The amendment of the gentleman from Sangamon [Mr. Hay], and the one I offered, are entirely separate. The PRESIDENlT. The question is capable of division, and will be first put upon the motion to lay the amendment of the gentleman from Sangamon ['Mr. Hay] upon the table. The Secretary read the amendment offered by Mr. Hay, as follows: Provided, That the General Assembly shall create no circuit where the records of the courts for the two years previous thereto, shall not show the circuit courts therein to have been in session for at least eight months of the year, of the said two years. The motion of Mr. Sharp to lay the amendment offered by Mr. Hay upon the table, was not agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the motion to lay the amendment offered by the gentleman from Cook [Mr. Anthony] upon the table. The yeas and nays were ordered, and, being taken, resulted-yeas, 8, nays, 57 -as follows: ence to the business, it yet seems to haveI been universally conceded that if the numbesr of ju dge s the State would be entitled to un der the apportionment of one hundred thousand population, could be d ist ributed with reference to the demands of busineas throughout the State, it would afford a sufficient number of judges. It would give twenty-seven circuit judges for the population of the State outside of the county of Cook. It was objected, and I think there was force in the objection, that we could obtain no distribution according to business, if the Legislature be at liberty to distribute according to population simply, and that whereas, in some portions of the State, a circuit judge would be sufficient to the demands of a population of one hundred and fifty thousand, yet, in other portions of the State, as experience has shown, a circuit judge could not more than meet the demands of a population of seventy-five thousand. Now, sir, how do we arrive at what the demands of the State are, but by the records of a court showing the amount of business transacted within the circuit? We seize upon that (I think it was upon a suggestion of the gentleman from Wayne [Mr. Hanna] ), and propose to be governed by what these records shall show in regard to the demands of business within the proposed circuits; and by the adoption of this amendment, we meet the difficulty that a demand may be made for a circuit judge, wherever the population comes within the limit prescribed in the amendment we have adopted of one hundred thousand. We say, "No, gentlemen; that does not necessarily entitle you to a circuit judge. You must show, in addition to that, by the records of your courts, that the demands of business within that circuit require a circuit judge;" and in that way we shall approximate towards a division of these twenty-seven judges throughout the State, according to the demands of business in the State. Ia no other way can it be done, as I believe, than through the instrumentality of the principle suggested by the gentleman from Wayne [Mr. Hanna], and embodied in the amendment I propose. Mr. TURNER. Mr. President: I am opposed to both of those amendments, for the reason that it has been conceded all the way through, ever since we have been in session, that the evils which have grown up in legislation, are mainly in consequence of attempting to attain ends through indirection. Our Constitution provides that judges shall have one thousand dollars a year salary and no more, but the ingenuity of men found it could get round that constitutional provision, by allowing them some kind of docket fee. Now, I do not want, gentlemen, to put in any such clause as this in the Constitution, whereby a judge, in the southern part of the State, where the people have their fill share of judges, with not a third of the business, can obtain the same salary and do very much less work. I do not want to hold out inducements to those judges to be dishonest. I know how this may be done. I know how county courts, when fees were raised to five dollars a day, prolonged their sessions. They opened court on the third Monday of the month, and then adjourned from day to....day, until ai Allen of Alex.,Gamble, Peirce, Anderson, Goodell, Poage, Anthony, Goodhue, Sedgwick Bayne, Haines of CookSherrill Benjamin, Hanna, Springer Bowman, Hart, Sutherland, Bromwell, Harwood, Tincher Browning, Hay, Tubbs, Cameron, Hayes, Underwood, Cary, Hildrup, Vandeventer, Church, King, Wagner, Cody, Mc(Uory, Wait, Coolbaugh, Medill, Wall' Craig, Merriam, Washburn, Cross, Moore, Wells, Eldredge, Neece, Wendling Ellis, Parker, Wheaton, Fox, Parks, Whiting, Fuller, Perley, Wilson-57. I CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION F.uiDAY) 142-1 YEA.$. Forman, Hankins, Sharp, Abbott' Cummings, Doment, Turner, Wright-8. NA.YG. .LBSENT, OR NOT VOTING. - I Allen of Crfd.,English, Ross, Archer, Haines of LakeScho'lfield, Atkins, McDowell Snyder, Brown, Pillsbury,' Skinner, Bryan, Rice, Truesdale, Buxton, Robinson, Mr. President-18. So the motion of Mr. Sharp, to lay on the table the amendment offered by Mr. Anthony, was not agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is on the amendment offered by the gentleman from Sangamon [Mr. Hay]. 3,lr. WHEATON. Mr. President: It seems to me that the amendment offered by the gentleman from# Sangamon [Alr. APRIL 2, 1870. DE]3ATES AND POOEEDIXGS. 1425 tions, with power by which they may sap and destroy the vital energies and life blood of the State. But on the mere question of creating a circuit here and there, we cannot trust the Legislature. I think a greater inconsistency was never manifested in any deliberative body. If we are to hamper the Legislature at all in this matter, let us leave some way to apportion these circuits according to business. It is said by the gentleman from Wayne [Mr. Hanna], that in the circuit north of the one in which he resides, the judge do,es not sit more than eight weeks in the year. The gentleman from McLean [Mr. Benjamin], says that in his county the judge holds court tenl months. The difference between the length of time during which these judges sit, may be owing in part to the slowness of the judge. The last judge may be slow, al though the gentleman is satisfied that he does business as rapidly as any judge in thle State. But, sir, in adopting the proposition of the gentleman from Sangamon [Mr. Hay] we put a premium on the judge who sits in the circuit north of Wayne county, to induce him to hold court in his circuit for eight months in the year, so that it shall not be changed. I think if we are to be bound in all parts of the State by this provision, that this State shall never be divided into more judicial circuits than one to every hundred thousand population, we should have the flexible clause suggested by the gentleman from Cook [Mlr. Anthony], having regard to business as well as territory and population. I think the substitute suggested by the gentleman from Perry [Mr. Wall], is a little better than the one suggested by the gentleman from Cook [Mr. Anthony] and myself, as it compels the Legislature to equialize with due regard to business as well as territory and population, and I hope the gentleman from Cook [Mr. Authony] will accept that as a portion of his amendment. Mr. ANTHONY. I will accept the amendment suggestsd by the gentleman from Perry [Mr. Wall]. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the amendment of the gentleman from Sangamon [Mr. Hay]. ADJOURNIMENT. Mr. WRIGHT. Mr. President: I move that the Convention do now adjourn. The motion was agreed to. uSo the Convention (it twelve o'clock and five minutes) adjourned. JUDICIAL DEPARTfENT. The PRESIDENT. The question is on the ame-ndmnent proposed by the gentlemau from Sangamon [M'r. Hay] to the amendment of the gentleman from Perry [Mr. Wall]. The Secretary read the amendment offered by Mr. Hay, as follows: Plrovided, That the General Assembly shall create no circuit where the records of the courts for the two years previous thereto, shall not show the circuit court therein to have been in session for at least eight months of the year, of the said two years. The yeas and nays were ordered, ancl being taken, resulted-yeas, 25, nays, 27 -as follows: YEAS. Abbot t, C ross, Allen of Alex.,Cummings, Allen of Crfd. Dement, Anderson, Ellis, Bayne,. Goodhue, Benjamin Hankins, Bowman, Hanna, Browning, Hay, Cary, Sutherland, Turner, Underwood, Vandeventer, Wait, Wall, Wells, Wendling, Wheaton-27. Hay] is a pre mium fo )r slow judges, and that is all there is of it. For there is not ajudge ira the St ateh wwan ts a small c ircuit, but would hold cour t eight m on ths in the year to secure it. Atid placing a provision in the Consti tUtution, basing the circuit s upon the num ber of month s or th e number of days tbat a court shall be held, is putting, allow me to say again, a premium upon slow judges. The amendment suggested by the gen tlemin, from Cook [Mr. Anthony] is taken from the Constitution of the State of K entucky, and was copi ed by myself. Though I have no love for that State or its institutions, I am in favcr of that pro vision, for if we have a limit by which the State is to be bound, it should be ac cording to business as well as territory and population. It is my judgment, sir, that it is special legislation to say anything in this Consti tution at all about the size of the circuits. and now,,is ever, I will raise my voice as a member of the Convention, against spe cial legislation in this Constitution. But if we are to especially legislate upon the size of the circuits, the action of the Le-gislature can in some wry relieve the wants of the people of the State, by regulating the subject in proportion to the business done. Allusiot has been made to the Consti tution of the State of New York, which limits the number of circuits. True, but it puts four judges in each circuit. It divides the State into eight judicial districts, and places four judges in eachmaking thirty-two judges in New York, exclusive of the city of New York. Mr. CHURCH (in h:s seat). What is the population of New York? Mvr. WHEATON. About three millions-the amount suggested by the gentleman froin Adams [Mr. Browning] as the probable population of this State. In mrly jadgment, the population of this State is not 3,000,000, and will not much exceed 2,500,000. In New York, when the population did not exceed 2,000,000, they, a' )pted a provision that there should be thirty-two judges outside of the city of New York. This State is a growing giant, and we propose to bind that giant in the swaddling bands of an infant. Gentlemen seenm to think that with the dissolution of this (Convention all the wisdom and. patriotismn of this State will die. Truly, we are the people, and all wisdom will die with us l It seemus that gentlemen do not wish anything left to the Legislature, on the ground that we cannot trust the~Legislature onl any important question that interests the people of this State. Ill the Nqew York Constitution of 1867 there was no lunitation whatever, as to the number of j udicial circuits, and that is the only part of that Constitution that was accepted by the people of that State. The judticiary article alone was accepted. Here we, in the light of that experienlce, desire to hamper and fetter the LegisJlatulre on this question, which is one th'at is vital to the people. We must limit the Legislature. A great bug-bear stares Us in the face, that the country is to lbe ruined by unwise legislation. We candnot trust the Legislature in anything, however special or unimportant. Yet., in this very Constitution, we trust them with some of the most important quoa The Convention met at two o'clock P. M., and was called to order by the President. PER D)IEM/ TO CONVENTION. Mr. KING offered the following resolution, which was read by the Secretary, and agreed to: Resolved, That the Auditor of Public Accounts of this State be hereby authorized to draw his warrant on the Treasurer of the State for the sum of one hundred dollars in favor of each member and elected offiecer of this Convention, and twenty-five dollars to each page, and other appointed officer of the Convention, and that the same be charged to each of them on their per diem, upon final settlement of the same with said Auditor. to. The question is upon the third amend. ment proposed by the Committee of the Whole, by which was stricken out from the sixth line of the section what the Secretary will read. The Secretary read the words stricken out, as follows: The judicial divisions and judicial circuits shall be formed of contiguous counties, in as nearly compact form as the population necessary for the same will permit, and when formed shall not be changed until after the next census of the State or of the United States. The PRESIDENT. The Secretary will read the amendment proposed to AP-RIL 22, 1870. DRIBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1425 Haves, King, - Parks, Peirce, Tincher, Washburn, Wtiitin Wilson!'-25. NAYS. Hildrup, Medill,' Moore, Neece, Parker, Perley, Sedgwick, Sharp, Sherrill, Anthony, Cameron, Cody, Craig, Fox, Fuller, Goodell, Hart, Harwood, ALIBSP,IQT, OR NOT VOT1111G. Archer, Atkins, Bromwell, Brown, Bryan, Buxton, Chu rch, Coolbaugh, Eldredge, Englisti, Forman, Gamble Ross. Haines of Colk,Scholfield, Haines of L'k, Snvder. McCoy, Skinner, McDowell, Springer, Merriam. Truesdale, Pillsbury, Tubbs, Poage, Wagner, Pe' rc'e' Wrrght, Rice, Mr.Presfdont-.33. Robinson, So the -amendment offered by Mr. Ila y to the ameiidmeut offered by Mr. Wall was inot agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question re. curs upon the ai-nendment proposed by the gentleman from Perry [Mr. Wall], aud accepted by the gentleman from Cook [Alr. Anthony]. The Secretary will read. The Secretary read the amendment of. fer,ed by Mr. Wall aud accepted by Mr. Anthony, as followi: The circuits to be made as nearly equal as may be, one with another, having due regard to businest3, territory and population. The amendment offered by Mr. Wall and accepted by Mr. Anthony, was agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon concurring witli,tbe amendment reported by the Committee of the Whole, as amended. It will be declared agreed AFTER-NOON SESSION. FRIDAY, April 22,1870. 146 CONSTITUTIONAL COYENTIO FRIDAY, cuit courts shall report to the next General Assembly the number of days they have held court in the several counties comprising their respective circuits, the preceding two years;" and the amendment is declared agreed to. The next question is upon the amendment proposed to the fortyseventh section: after the word " elected," in the sixth line, insert the words, "except as herein otherwise provided." The next question is upon the fortyninth section, "shall it be stricken out?" and the amendment is agreed to. The next question is upon the additional section. The Secretary will read the section. The Secretary read the additional section, as follows: SEC. -. The term of office of judges of the supreme court, elected after the adoption of this Constitution, shall be nine years; and on the first Monday of June of the year in which the term of any of the judges in office at the adoption of this Constitution, or of the judges then elected, shall expire, and every nine years thereafter, there shall be an election for the successor or successors of such judges, in the respective districts wherein the term of such judges shall expire. Mr. TURNER. Mr. President: I move to amend by striking out of the second line the word "nine," and inserting "twelve." Mr. TINCHER. Mr. President: I call for a division of the question-that the question be first taken on striking out. Mr. ALLEN, of Crawford. Mr. Preaident: I move to lay that amendment on the table. Mr. TURNER. Mr. President: If it will lead to debate, I withdraw the amendment. Mr. TINCHER. IMr. President: I move to strike out "nine" and insert "seven." Mr. ALLEN, of Crawford. Mr. President: I move to lay the amendment on the table. The motion was agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The Convention having concurred with or amended all the amendments that were made in Committee of the Whole, the question is now on the adoption of the article by sections as amended in Committee of the Whole and in Convention, and first on the first section. The last two lines of the first section have been committed by the Convention to the Committee on Schedule, and are beyond the action of the Convention. The question is upon the adoption of so much of the first section as has not been committed to the Committee on Schedule. The Secretary read the section, except the last two lines, as follows: SEcTION 1. The judicial powers, except as in this article is otherwise provided, shall be vested in one supreme court, circuits courts, county courts, justices of the peace, police magistrates, and in such courts as may be created by law in and for cities and incorporatfed towns. Section one, as read, was agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is on section two. The Secretary read read section two, as follows: SEC. 2. The supreme court shall consist of seven judges, and shall have original jurisdiction in cases relating to the revenue, in mandamus, and habeas corpus, and appellate jurisdiction in all other cases. One of said judges shall be chief justice' four shall constitute a quorum, and the consurrence of bour shall be necessary to every decision. be inserted byt the Committee of the Whole. The Secretary read the amendment, as follows: The judicial divisions and judicial circuits shall be formed of contiguous counties, in as nearly compact form as circumstances will permit. New circuits may be formed, and the boundaries of circuits and divisions changed by the General Assembly at its session next preeding the election ot the judges of the circuits or divisions sought to be changed, but at no other time: Provided, that the circuits may be equalized or changed at the first session of the General Assembly after the adoption of this Constitution. The PRESIDENT. The amendment will be declared agreed to. The next question is upon the amendments to the fifteenth section, to insert after the word "territory," the words "in lieu of the circuits provided for in section fifteen." And it will be declared agreed to. The next question is upon the second amendment to the fifteenth section, to insert after the word "law," the words "but the whole number of judges to be elected in such enlarged circuits, shall never exceed the proportion of one for every one hundred thousand inhabitants in the State;" and the amendment will be declared agreed to. The next question is upon the amendment to the twentieth section; insert after the word "courts" in the second line, the words "having extended juris diction as provided by sections eighteen and uineteen." The amendment will be declared agreed to. The question is upon concurrence with the first amendment to the twentieth section. - Mr. HAINES, of Cook. Mr. President: What is the amendment? The PRESIDENT. The amendment is to insert after the word "courts" in the seco,nd line, the words "having extended jurisdiction as provided by sections eighteen and nineteen." The question being on concurring in the amendment to the amendment, in the second line of the twentieth section, it ,was not agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the second amendment to the twentieth section: after the word "election," insert the words "trespass to real property;" and the amendment is declarbd agreed to. The next question is upon the twentythird section, which has been stricken out; and the amendment will be declared agreed to. The next question is upon the thirtieth section, in the first line, that the word "four" shall be stricken out, and "five" inserted; and the ame~ndment will be declared agreed to. The next question is upon the amend meat proposed to the fifth line; and the amendment is declared agreed to. Th~e next question is upon the thirty thousand;" and the amendment is de~ elsred agreed to. The next question is upon the thirtyfifth section, in the second line, after the wvord "two" insert "or mores; and the Convention concurs larthe amendment. The next question is upon the amend. mneat proposed'by the Committee of the Whole to the forty-sixth section: add the words "and the judges of *the several cir Section two was agreed to. The PRESIDENT.h e Sh h e question is on the adoption of the th ird se ct ion. The Secretary read section three, as follows: SEC. 3. No person shall be eligible to the office of judge of the supreme co urt who is not a citizen of the United States and of this State; nor u nless he shall have resided in this State for five years or more immediately preceding his elec tion, shall reside, at the time of hi s election, in t he division in which h e shall be elected, and be at least thirty years of age. Section three was agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is on the fourth section, as amended. The Secretary read section four, as amended, as follows: bEc. 4. Terms of the supreme court shall continue to be hel d in th e p resent grand divisions at the several places now pr ovided for holding the same therein, until otherwise provided by law; and, in addition thereto, one or more terms of said court shall be held, for the Northern division, in the city of Chicago, each year, at such times as said court may appoint, whenever said city or the county of Cook shall provide appropriate rooms therefor, and the use of library without ex pense to the State. The judicial divisions may be altered, increased or diminished in number, and the times and places of holding said court may be changed. Mr. ELDREDGE. Mfr. President: I move to strike out of section four the words: And in addition thereto, one or more terms of said court shall be held for the northern division, in the city of Chicago, each year, at such times as said court may appoint, when ever said city or the county o(t Cook shall provide appi-opriate rooms therefor, and the use of library without expense to the State. Mr. ANTHONY. Mr. President: I move to lay that motion on the table. The motion was agreed to. Mr. BENJAMIN. Air. President: I move to insert in the sixth line, after the word "State," the words "until otherwise provided by law." It will be noticed upon examination of the fore part of this section, that the terms of the supreme court are to be held in the present grand divisions, until otherwise provided by law. The next clause provides that "one or more terms of said court shall be held for the northern division, in the city of Chicago, each year," without the qualification "until otherwise provided by law." Now, it may be desirable at some future time to have the supreme court holdl all its sessions at the capital, and not at the several places where they are now held in the present grand divisions. I trust that the words "until otherwise provided by law," will be either stricken out where they are inserted, or inserted in the sixth line, also, after the word "State." Mr. HAYES, Mr. President: The seventh line contains, substantially, tile proposition which the gentleman wants inserted, which is — That the "judicial divisions may be altered, increased or diminished in number, and the times anld places of holding said court mayr be changed." Mr. WALL.G Mr. President: I would suggest to the gentleman from McLean [Mrr. Ben~jamin], that if his amendment is adopted, those words —"until otherwise provided by law" —may apply to the matter of the city of Chicago furnishing the rooms and the library without expenase to the State. I would prefer that the Object he desires to accomplish,'should be attained by striking,f out the word. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION FRIDAY, 1426 APRIL 22-, 1570. DEBATES AXD PROCEEDINGS. 1427 selves. we had better make it entirely certain Mr. FOX. IMr. President: It seems to me, if the construction put upon this lat ter clause by the gentleman from Craw ford [Mr. Allen] is correct, there is cer tainlly no necessity of the provision in re gard to the city of Chicago. It is a mere act of legislation. If it is already in the power of the Legislature to change the times and places of holding said court, it s eem s t o me thi, Convention ought not to attempt to legislate in regard to the matter'; and I am sorry the motion of the gentleman from LaSalle [Mr. Eldredge] to strike out, was not agreeed to. Mr. BENJAMIN. Mr. President: I will accept the amendment offered by the gentleman from Stephenson [Mr. Turner]. While I am on the floor, I will state that I made the motion, not to deprive the city of Chicago of the benefit of hav ing sessions of the court there, but simply to put it on the same footing as the three other places where sessions of the court arc now held, in thile several grand divisions; and it occurred to me that, inasmuch as we have the words "until otherwise pro vided by law" in the third line, and they are omitted in the sixth line, the construc tion might arise that the Constitution abso lutely requires-beyond the control of the Legislature-one or more sessions of the court to be held yearly in the city of Chicago. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the amendment proposed by the gentleman from McLean [iMr. Benjamin] to strike out the words "in addition thereto," and inserting "until otherwise provided by law." The amendment offered by Mr. Benja m in was agreed to. Mr. VANDENENTER. Mr. Presi dent: I have no doubt of the ability and willingness of the city of Chicago to provide a suitable library for the su preme court, but it seems to me we had better have it a little more definite. I, therefore, move to insert after the w ord "of," in the sixth line, the words "a suitable." The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the motion of the gentleman from Brown [Mr. Vandeventer], to insert after the word "of," the words "a suitas ble." The motion of Mr. ~andeventer was agreed to. v Section four was agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon section five, as amended in Commit a tee of the Whole. The Secretary read section five, as follows: SEC. 5. The present grand divisions shall be preserved, and be denominated Southern, Central and Northern, until otherwise provided by law. The State, until otherwise provided by law, shall be divided into seven districts for the election of judges, as follows: First District-To be composed of the counties of St. Clair, Washington, Jefferson, Wayne, Edwards, Wabash, White, Hamilton, Franklin, Perry, Randolph, Monroe, Jackson Williamson, Saline, Gallatin, Hardin, Pope; Union, Johnson, Alexander, Pulaski, Massac and Clinton. Second District-To be composed of the counties of Madison, Bond, Marion, Clay, Richland, Lawrence, Crawford, Jasper, Effiugham, Fayette, Montgomery, Macoupin, Shelby, Cumberland, Clark, Greene, Jersey, CalN houn and Christian. I Third District-To be composed of the coun ties of Sangamon, Macon, Lo,-an, DeWitt, Piatt, Douglas, Champaign, Vermilion, Mc Lean, Livingston, Ford, Iroquois, Coles, Ed gar, Moultrie and Tazewell. Fourth District —To be composed of the coun ties of Ful t n on, MDon ough, Hancock, Schuyler, Brown, Adams, Pike, Mason, Me nard, Morgan, Cass and Scott. Fifth Distr ict-To bhe compo sed of the coun ties of Knox, Warren, Ipendelson, Mercer, Henry, Stark, P eoria, Marshall, Putnam, Be - reau, LaSalle, Grundy and Woodford. Sixth Di.,trict-To be composed of the counties of Whiteside, Carroll, JoDztviess, Stephenson, Winnebago, Boone, McHenry, Kaie, Kendall, DeKalb, Lee, Ogle and Rock Is land; and the Seventh -Di.,trict-To be composed of the counties of Lake, Cook, Will, Kankakee and DuPage. And that at the time of voting on the adop. tion of this Constitution, one judge of the supreme court shall be elected by the electors thereof in each of said districts numbered two, three, six and seven, and who shall hold their office for the termn of nine years from the first Monday of June, A.D. 1870. And whenever the judicial divisions for the election of said judges shall be altered, increased or diminished, the same shall be done upon the rule of equality of population, as nearly as county boundaries will permit, and of equal apportionment of judges according to population. Mr. TURNER. Mr. President: Was not the first district changed in the Con vention? The PRESIDENT. No changes were' made in the Convention. Mr. TURNER. Mr. President: I would suggest that after providing for the sev enth district, there are two words at the commencement of the next paragraph that should be stricken out, and that the third word should begin with a capital &. That paragraph has no connection with the organization of the districts; hence the copulative conjunction is out of place. The PRESIDENT. The amendment will be entertained by common consent and will be declared adopted. The question is upon the section. Mr. DEMENT. Mr. President: Here is a good place for my amendment-a place where it will fit exactly, and I now .offer it. The Secretary read the amendment offered by Mr. Dement, as follows: Insert after "1870," in the twenty-sixth line, the following: "And no member of this Convention shall be eligible to the office of supreme or circuit judge at such election." M~r. DEMCENT. Now, Mr. President, as the section does not apply specially to Cook county, the gentlemen from that county cannot accuse me of any invidious attack uponl that locality. But, sir, if any of those gentlemen will rise and sayr it has a personal application to him, I will have himn exempt from the operation of my amendment. I do not know, sir, but I would exempt, so far as my wish goes, any delegate on this floor, who will indicate a wish to that effect. APRIL 22) 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1427 4 1shal',," and inserting the word "may," in the first line of the clause. Mr. ANTHONY. Mr. President: This matter was very fully considered in the Judiciary Committee, and also in the Committee of the Whole; and I trust the Convention will not change it. Mr. DENIENT. Mr. President: I hope there will be no change. I wish to say to the Cook county delegates that as we have g(-)t our matter restored pretty much as it was understood all around, I am perfectly willing to carry out that understanding. Mr. CUMMINGS. Mr. President: I move to lay the motion of the gentleman from 3/icLean [Mr. Benjamin] upon the table. Mr. BROWNING. Mr. President: I do not suppose that there is any member of the Convention who has any objection to the term of the supreme court being held in C hicaoo, or any desire to change the provisions of the section in that regard. The PRESIDENT. There is a motion pending to lay the amendment on the table. Mr. CUMMINGS. I withdraw the motion, Mr. President. Mr. BROWNING. Mr. President: I wish only to suggest that whilst we are willing to concede a term of the supreme court to Chicago, I do not think it would be expedient to leave the section in such a form as to perpetuate the court there against the interests of the State and the wishes of the people, if it shall hereafter' be their desire to concentrate the court at the seat of government, and have but one place f(-)r its sitting. All that we want is to modify it so that it shall not be perpetual. Mr. ANTI-IONY. Mr. President: I would ask the gentleman from Adams [Mr. BrowniDg], what is the meaning of the last part of tile section? Mr. BROWNING. That might be so construed as to have reference only to the grand divisions. "The judicial divisions may be altered," etc., and this latter clause is applicable alone, I apprehend, to the grand divisions. We can easily insert words which will leave the subj ect to the control of the General Assembly. I greatly prefer that thcre shall be a I would not exempt the gentleman from Lee [lvlr. Dementi, perhaps. [Laughter]. I would exclude him from being eligible to any office created by this Conventioin, at the election which will take place at the time we are asking the people of the State to adopt this Constitution-our owii work. I could not, at the same time, ask tb.em to elect me to fill one of the offices I have assisted in creating; but it may be the fault of mv taste. I do not at all feel egotistical on JA e 1428 CO~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~STITUTJOXAL CO~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~VEXTIO~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ FRIDAY,~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ the floor, but as the gentleman from Fulton [Mr. Cummings] desires the floor, I will give way to him. Ytr. CUMMINGS. Mr. President: I move that the amendment offered by the gentleman from Lee [ir. Dement] be laid upon the table. The Secretary read the amendment offered by Mr. Dement, as follows: Insert after "1870," in the twenty-sixth line, "no member of this Convention shlall be eligible to the office of supreme or circuit judge at such election." lMr. BROMWELL. Mr. President: Could not candidates for the supreme judges be excused from voting upon this question? [Laughter.] Mr. DEMENT. I have no objection to that. The question being upon laying the amendment offered by Mr. Dement upon the table, the yeas and nays were ordered, and, being taken, resulted-yeas, 45; nays, 17-as follows: TEAS. Allen of Crfd., Forman, Perley, Anderson, Fox, Peirce, Anthony, Fuller, Poage, Benjamin, Gamble, Rice, Bowman, Goodell, Sedgwick, Browning, Goodhue, Sharp, Cameron, Hankins, Siherrill, Cary, Hart, Sutherland, Church, Harwood, Tubbs, Cody, R Hay, Vandeventer, Crai g, iHildrup, Wait, Cross, King, Wall, Cummings, Moore, Wendling, Eldredge, Neece, Whiting, dEllis, Parks, Wilson-45. subject of t aste, and if there is any honorable d elegate on this floor who differs from me, and wis hes t o be excluded from t he oper ations of the amend ment, I will vote fo r excluding him. But it has been said here by honorable delegates that we have not all the wisdom, virtue, and patriotism that exist in the State, and that those virtues will not die when we pass out of existence; that there will be other great men left to carry on the affairs of the State and expound the law. I am very anxious, for one, to give these talented, patriotic gent tlemcn a chance at the first election. Then, at all other times, I desire we 'hould come in and take out chance, if we should be around at that time. Mr. BRO.YiWELL. Would you exclude gentlemen from being candidates for mayors of cities? [Laughter]. Mr. DEIIENT. I will answer the gentleman's inquiry according to the best of my skill and ability. If I had assisted in creating the office of mayor, u:~der authority guaranteed to me by the people at large, I should not feel at liberty to run for that office. Is the gentleman satisfied? Mr. BROWWELL. Perfectly. Mr. UNDERWOOD. I want to perfect the amendment as much as possible. I would ask to strike out all after "eligi ble," and insert "to anv office under this Constitution." [Laughter.] Mr. DE MENT. No, sir; I make a very decided distinction. Mr. GOODHUE. Would another amendment be in order? Mr. DEMENT. I do not require the gentleman's support. I will merely remark that I offer this out of the most affectionate regard for the reputation of the members of this body. It has been charged here that legislators sometimes legislate for their own special benefit. While we have been here taking motes out of other people's eyes, do not let us have beams in our own. Let us rise above these imputations. I do not believe that a single member on this floor, under the arrangements made for districts and circuits, has the slightest eye to the bench, but I do not want the country to be imputing selfish motives to us, while our work is pending-charging that we are going to run for these offices ourselves at the same election when this Constitution is to be adopted or voted down. Bu~t this proposition ma{y be a peculiarity of my own. -I shall not be very much offended or disappointed if [ find that the proposition is voted down. I want it distinctlyr understood that I do not fee;l invidious towards a single member upon this floor, but I have an affec. tinhate regardl for the interests of the talented lawyers we have left at home, who joined in sending us here. I do not wish their chances shall be curtailed lay turning the eminent abilities of this Conventionl Upon the public and asking for these oratces:s Still, if there is a majority who disagree with me here, I shall confo~rm to the power of the majority upon this questions as I have had to do upon many other amendments. I have offered it for the good of my constituents and the people, according to my own judgment. Mr. CUMMINGS. Mr. President — Mir. DEMENT. I have Doqt yet yielded Mr. FOX. Mr. Pre s ide nt: I wish to ask the gentleman a question. Would not this give the Legislature the power to do what we do not wish to have them do-give them too much power? Mr. UNDERWOOD. Mr. President: Thie population should be proportionable. This may be expressed in awkward language. If there were seven judges of the court and only three election districts, the population in each district should be in proportion to the judges residing therei1. Mr. WAIT. Mr. President: Would it not be better to use the word "district" instead of "division," in the twenty-sixth line? Mr. UNDERWOOD. Perhaps it would. Mr. TURNER. Mr. President: The difficulty arose in this way: When the section came from the Committee on Ju'diciary, it was proposed to have thej udges of the supreme court elected in three divisi,ms. Since then it has been altered and election districts have been provided, and the whole difficulty will be obviated by striking out "judicial divisions," and insertin;g "districts," in the twenty-sixth line. It will refer then to the second clause in the fifth section. ABSENT, OR NOT VOTING. reputatio OR ThVNclause i n the fif th secti on. Archer, Hanna, Snyder, Atkins, Haines ofLake,Skinner, The present grand divisions shall be preBrown, McDowell, Springer, served, and be denominated southern, c('intral Bryan, Pillsbury, Truesdale, and northern, until otherwise provided by Buxton, Robinson, Wells, law. The State, until otherwise provided by Coolbaugh, Ross, Wright law, shall be divided into seven districts, for English, Scholfield, Mr. President-21. the election ofjudges, as follows: So the motion of Mr. Cummings, to lay That refers exclusively to the election. upon the table the amendment offered by The word "division," in line twenty-six, Mr. Dement, was agreed to. has not been changed to "districts," to Mr. FOX. Mr. President: I move conform to that state of things. an amendment, by strtkitig out all after It may occur that districts already orthe word "permit," —the balance of the gan,ized, may increase greatly in populasection. tion, and it may be necessary for the I call the attention of the Convention General Assembly, at some time, to to the wording of that section, which is change these election districts. If they very awkward. I understand that it can are changed, they should be changed in mean nothing but to give the Legislature harmony with the last clause. power to increase the judges. I appre- I move to strike out "judicial divis. hend the Convention is not ready to put ions," in line twenty-six, and insert "dis. that power into the Constitution. I triets." therefore move that the line be stricken The PRESIDENT. The motion of the out. gentleman from Stephenson [Mir. Turn The PRESIDENT. The question is er] cannot be entertained at present, as upon the amendment offered by the gen- it is not an amendment to the amendtleman from Schuyler [Mr. Fox]. ment of the gentleman from Schuyler [Mr. Mr. CARY. Mr. President: My un- Fox]. derstanding is that the words "alter, in- The question is on the amendment of. crease or diminish" mean the size of the fered by the gentleman from Schuyler districts, territorially, not peculiarly the [Mr. Fox], tostrike out all from and in, number. If I thought it capable of the cluding the word "and," in line twentyconstruction the gentleman from Schuyler eight. u[Mr. Fox] gives, I would vote for his Mr. BROWNING. Mir. President: I amendment. think the section is right as it stands, and Mr. UNDERWOOD. Mr. President: I will suggest the reasons why I think so, There is a difference of opinion as to how without debating the amendmenet pro. many places there should be for holding posed by the gentleman from S(-huyier court. Some want three, some seven, [Mr. Fox], or that proposed by the gen. and some one. But, from the change of tleman from Stephenson, [Mr. Turners 1428 CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION F-RIDAY, population and business, these divisions should be changed from time to time. As we have three court houses and three libraries, and there was some anxiety in the present grand divisions to retain the three,, we concluded to leave them until otherwise provided by law, but provide seven election districts: And whenever the judicial divisions for the election of said judges shall be altered, increased or diminished, the same shall be done upon the rule of equality of population, as nearly as county boundaries will permit, and of equal apportionment of judges, according to population. NA.YG. Abbott, Hayes, Allen, ofalex. McCoy, Bayne, Medill, B i-omwell, Merriam, DeMeDt, Parker, Raines OfCook,Tincher, Turner, Underwood, Wagner Wheatob, Washburn-17. APRIL 1870. DEBATES AD POCEEDJGS. 142w ty of Cook shall provide appropriate rooms therefor, and the use of library without ex pense to the State. The judicial diiisions may be altered, increased or diminished in number, and the times and places of holding said court may be changed. Now, there never has; been nor has it been proposed to put a limitation upon the Legislature, with respect to equal ity of population in those three grand division,, for business p urposes. They are not now equal in that regard. They are made to coiiformn to the business wants of the various portions of the population of the State, and wfe desire to continue them in that situation.'There are gentlemen whose coun::ties are so situated that although they are territorially nearer to the third grand division of the State, they have yet protested against being cut off from the second division. They are located for business purposes only, no limitation being placed for business purposes. They desire that their location for business purposes shall not be altered. Now, it never has been proposed to limit these three grand divisions for business purposes by the mere rule of population, or change their relation as they now exist, and this is the first time I have heard such a suggestion. It was necessary, when we d ivided the State into election districts, to, after those election districts or divisions had been created, put some restriction upon the Le-gislature, in regard to the manner of altering those election districts. Hence we provided as we have in the clause to which objection has beentakein. Theuse of the word divisions is SVDonymous with that of the word "districts." It may be a little more clear to strike out "divis. ions" and say "districts;" but the meaning is clear now, because it says "whenever the divisions for the election of said j udgeos," referring distinctly to the division fr the election of judges, and not to divisions for th-e transaction of business. So that the Convention will see that it is exactly'right as it is here. There is no room for any ambiguity-the word "division" referring to election purposesnot bus'iness3 purposes. It has never been proposed to require the Legislature to equalize the three divisions with respect to population. I submit that we should disarrange the whole understanding that we have about this matter by attempting whether we should have three grand di visions for election purposes, corresponding to the three grand divisions for holding courts, or should provide seven election districts. The Convention has, so far as their action indicates, adopted the latter plan; but it was it-tenided that the Legislature should still have the power hereafter to adjust these divisions for election purposes, as the future wants and conveniences of the State might require; and if, in a readjustment, they should adopt a number of divisions less than seven-for instance, should they return to the plan of electing by three instead of seven divisions, as they may do, a rule that should require these provisions to be based upoin an equality of population, without reference to the number of judges to be elected in each o,ne of these three divisions, would defeat the object of the rule as intended to be established by this section, and would do injustice. Now, if the election districts are the same es the divisions for the sessions of the supreme court, theie being a greater population in proportion to territory, in some portions of the State than others, if we divide it equally, so as to make it convenient to the different parts of the State, for the place of holding the supreme court, it would be necessary, probablv, to provide for the election of more than one judge in one of these divisions than in another; for instance, two in the central, three in the northern, and two in the southern, as was at one time contemplated by many gentlemen here. It will be seen, then, th,-t in the application of that rule, the apportionmtent must not be made with reference to the population in these divisions, but in proportion to the number of judges to be elected; and that is a necssary qualification, if the Legislature ever should return to the system of electing by the same divisions that are provided for holding terms of the supreme court. I agree with the gentleman from Adams [Mr. Browning] that the section as it is, ought to be prese rv ed, and that neither one of these amendments is proper, in my judgment. Mr. TURNER. Mr. President:'Upon conoultinrg wit h the ge ntleman from Adams [ofr. Browning], I am sa tisfied th at this clause was intended to apply en g e n t l m a n r o m c h u y e r [ M. F o ] f v it d e d i i i n f o ru i e s u p s e o i s o s w r e l e c t i o n districts, a se w e lluse t h a h e w a s c o r e c t b u u p n a m o m n t' p oel e t oio n t e rfesa i d a ndg e, w h i c h w e l h a v w e x - M. H Y u t c l s t e i i i n r e f e c t o n, a n a d e r t n g o h e e a s n s n r et u r n r eo g nih e d i is i n t h e n f u t h se c t o f owie t o n p r p s s l a n g a g e o f t i s e c t o n, a m s a t i f i e b g e e t hed s e c i o ih s a o l w:w i ete d i v i s i o ns.w r l c i n d s v ision atccep seet lcs n wp o i e o he amendment I aopn fasreo by it. ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ b pr vi e d b g n law; and ino Add a mso theret, t et.i t i e n o r f r t w r s i N o w, i t w l l b r e m m b e r d b y t h e ro wne i n g ] m o r e t er m s o f s a i d co u rw h a l h e h l g e n t e m a n t h a w h e t h s s e t i o n w a s e d e r s t a n o rt h ei s divisi o n, i n t h e e x c tl y o f Cightt e n y s v n t i e ca g o ea c h y e a r a tu l s u c h T i me a s s an id o u r T h R S N T I t i a n a e d f o r t h o v e t i o, i w a a q u e t i o -m u s t' a p ond r t, a hn e v e h a i d t h e r e or e t h re eu e t t h m n d e t o h e t e a This c lause refers to the grand divi sions, and not to the election districts. I;. was supposed wh en thi s section was p roposed ing the Copamittee on Jtddiciary, a n d a ga i n when it was under constdera tion in th e Co m imittee of the Whole, that the Gene ral As sembly might, at some time In or other, d eem it expedient to increa se the number of grand divisions, in whi ch c ourts should be held, or to dimcinish them T hey might choose to increase them to four or five, oir reduce to one. This paragraph was prepared to meet that cont-ingenCY. Mr. I tIiNER. Wi ll the gentleman permit me to sake a suggestion u Weith t ha t v iew, then, " the election of said judges" should be stricken o dut. The gewtlenhad t's view may be correct, and can be effected by striking out those words. Mr. BROWNING. Mr. President: At the tim e it was p repa red, the grand divi sions and election districts were the ,jame. They were syiiodymous terms. One represented precisely the other; but I am certain that this clause of t-.xis section was intended to meet the exigency that iiiigl-t arise in respect to the grand divisions anid the places of holding courts. I1 thini,k the words as suggested by the gerntlemlan fromt Stephenson [Nlr. Turner] ought to be stricken out so as to have it read th~us: And whenever the judicial divisions shall be altered, increased, or diminished, the same shall he done uponl the rule of equality of population, as nearly as county boundaries will permit, and of equal apportionment of judges according to population. Now, it was supposed that the General Assemblt-)y, at somes future timne, perhaps at no distant day, might regard it as wise to chlarge that provision, as it is compe tent for them to do, dividing the State into seve,-i election districts at.,d returning to the old system of three grand divisio-ns. Wthen they do that, if thev ever S,hall doe it, it wilt be incumbent upon them to make some new adjustment of the districts,, and that adjustment is to be made according to population and an equal distribution of judges according to population in the divisions. T~he divisionis wvould necessarily have to be unequal. Ill one of them we would have to APRIL 22, 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1429 140C-TTTOA OY~TO RDY first amendment proposed by the Committee of the Whole. M I think the action of this Convention has been expressed very decidedly in favor of electing the seven judges in seven districts. I think now that this idea is not fully expressed in this section. The gentleman from Adams [Mr. Browning tells us he has no doubt that the Legislature would very soon change that. It is not the intention of this Convention, as I understand it, for the Legislature to change it, and I wish to strike out all after the word "law," in the second line, to and including the word "judges," in the fifth line, and insert the following: The State shall be divided into seven districts for the election of judges, and until otherwise provided by law, they shall be arranged Mr. BROWNING. Mr. President: I am certainly of opinion that the gentleman misapprehehds the purposes of the Convention if he supposes it is the intention to make seven districts, and make them perpetual as long as the Constitution exists, taking away all legislative control over them. I suppose the purpose was to leave the subject of the number of divisions in in which courts should be held, and the number of districts for the election of judges, entirely under the control of the General Assembly, so that if it should become expedient, or the pleasure of the people to concentrate the supreme court and get rid of the expense of holding it at three places, and providing three libraries, the Legislature shall be competent to do so. And if, on the other hand, it should be desired to increase the number of divisions, that the court should be still further ramified, it might be done. But, if the gentleman'proposes to put it out of the power of the General Assembly to change or modify the provision, and leave it so that we must always have the election of judges in separate districts, I do not agree with him. Another considerati on, I understand, was, that the time might come when it would be regarded as desirable to have the judges elected by general ticket, all in one district an I not in separate dis tricts; but if the proposition of the gentleman prevails, that also will be beyond the reach of any power that will exist in the General Assembly of the State. I am satisfied that the gentleman is mistaken in supposing it was the intention to make the seven election districts perpetual. YEMAS. Anthony, Goodhue, Sedgwick, Bayne, Hart, Slierrill, Benjamin, Harwood, Springer, Bromwell, Hay, Sutherland, Buxton, Hildrup, Tin-cher, Cary, McCoy, Tubbs, Church Merriam, Underwood, Cross, Moore, Wagner, Eldredge, Parker, Wait, Fuller, Parks, Wendl'ng, Gamble, Peirce, Wheaton, Goodell, Poage, Whiting —36. NAYS. Abbott, Dement, Medill, Allen of Alex. Ellis, Neece, Allen of Crfd., Forman, Rice, Anderson, Fox, Sharp, Bowman, Haines of CookTurner, Browning, Hankins, Vandeventer, Cody, Hayes, Washburn, Craig, King, Wilson-25. Cummings, Mr. WENDLING. Mr. President: I move to lay the motion to reconsider on the table. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the motion of the gentleman from Shelby [Mr. Wendling] to lay the motion to reconsider on the table. I Mr. BENJAMIN. Mr. President: This motion brings up a question which I think escaped the attention of nearly every member of the Convention. It is this-whether the section, as it now stands, will not put it in the power of the Legislature to change the number of districts for the election of judges, at pleasure. As it reads, the Legislature can divide the State into two, three, or any number of districts less than seven, for the election of judges. When the question was before the Con- 1430 CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION - FP.IDAY? from Schuyler [Mr. Fox]; and as such is in order. 31r.'AIcCOY. Mr. President: I think that with very little alteration, the sections are right as they stand. The second section says': The supreme court shall consist of se-yen judges, and shall have original jurisdiction, etc. In the fifth section it is provided that The State, until otherwise provided by law, shall be divided into seven districts for election of judges, as follows: Now, it will be observed, in the twenty-s-'.xth line, that it reads as follows: Whenever thejudicial divisions for the election of said judges shall be altered, increased or diminished. Now. Mr. President, we have seven districts for the election of seven j tidges, and I do not understand that the supreme bench is ever to be increased. The fifth section provides that the State shalt be divided into districts, until c-therwise provided by law; ai-d whenever the judicial division for the election of said judges, shall be altered, increased or diminished, the same shall be done upon tl-ie rule of equality of population. Now, sir, striking out the word "increased" just leaves it as it should be. We never can idcrease the number of Iistricts -so as to make more than seven, and if we drop out the word "increbsed," then it will read properly. If the word "district" was used in place of that of "division," and the word "increased" were dropped out, it would be exactly right. I call the attention' of the gentleman from Stephenson []Vlr. Turner], and the gentleman from Adams [.Mr. Browning], to this phraseolooy. Mr. ALLEN, of Alexander. Mr. President: I have been giving this section as much consideration as I have been able duridg the discussion of the question, and I think the proposed amendments are entirely unnecessary, and. Air. TURNER. Mr. President: I will withdraw my amendment to the aniendmeiit offered by the gentleman from Schuyler [Mr. Fox]. The PRESIDENT. The question -is upon the amendment proposed by the gentlemau from Schuyler [Mr. Fox], to strike out all after the word "Permit," in the vention, my understanding was that it was the intention to flx in the Con,,titution that there should be seven judges elected, each from a separate district. The section reads: The State, until otherwise provided by law, shall be divided into seven districts for the election of judges. The legal effect of this is, that when the Legislature sees fit to so provide by law, the State can be divided into two or three, or any number of districts, for the election of judges. If the amendment offered by the'o,,entleman from JoDaviess [,Mr. Cary] be adopted, it will fix in this Constitution, not only that there shall be seven judges, but, also, that they shall each be elected from a separate district, and not two or'three from one district. The arnej)dment suggested, will not fix the limits or size of the districts, but will leave to the Legislature the power of cliangirg the districts-taking one county from one district and placing it in another. Let us establish beyond the control of the Legislature seven separate districts. There, is a distinction to be observer between the terms "districts for the election of judges," and "grand divisions." This proposed ameddmeiit has nothing whatever to do with the grand diViSiODS. Their iiumb(r can be chadgc-d at will. These districts are simply for the election of i udges. Hence, I trust that members will not coiafound the terms "districts" and "divisions." If, in future, it may be desired to change this system of seven separate districts, aii adaendrnent to t'ie C,)Dstitution may be submitted to a vote of the people. I trust this power will i-,.ot be left to the Le-islature, and subject to the political chainges of that-body. I trust we wlll'provide that every judge shall be elected from a separate district; that there shall be seven districts, and that the liuinber shall not be increased or diminished to suit the political purposes of either party. The question being on the motion of Mr. Cary, to reconsider the vote on the fourth amendment to section tive, adopt. ed in Committee of the Whole, Tile yeas and nays were ordered, and, beidg taken, resulted-yeas 36, nays 25as follows: A.BSENT, OR NOT VOTING, Hanna, Snyder, McDowell, Skinner, Perley, Truesdale, Pillsbury, Wall, Robinson Wells Areber, Atkin.s, Brown, Bryan, Cameron, p DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. rt the Convention, with reference to other o offlicers, to provide that their pay shall not ere be increased or diminished during their ece c:)ntinuance in office. No purpose of rt- public morality, justice or policy would 'd, be subserved by disregarding the amenid menrit. I propose, and I insist upon it. Mr. PEIRCE. Mr. President: I move n to strike out $5,000 and insert $4,000. e The PRESIDENT. There is an e amendment now pending. as Mr. PEIRCE. Perh aps if my amendn meat were carried, the gent lema n would not insist upon his. The PRESIDENT. There is no way in which the motion of the gentleman r- from Grundy [Mr. Peirce] can be enter taincd, until the previous amendments are of disposed of. ae Mr. ALLEN, of Alexander. I cannot _ yield, Mr. President. I have no objecier tlon to $5,000. I do no t wa ntit inreased or diminished. h Mr. UNDERWOOD. Mr. President: I sincerely hope that the amendment will to be adopted. If there i s anythipg o n earth a- that we want, it is an independe nt judi ciary. If there is anything that we know, I it is that the judicial depatrtnmeut has, for e years past, received from the Legislature f additional compensation. I do not say whether that action was legal or illegal. t I do not say whether such additional e compensation was proper or improper. ~- There should be no power in the Legislae ture to increase or diminish salaries.' t Yesterday I was gratified to see that, :- whileon one hand suffrage had been exd tended to a large class of population, on t the other hand we were endeavoring to g protect the liberties and property of the [, people, by making the veto power more e efficient. I should begratified to-day, if in addition to that, we would place the n great bulwark of our liberty-the juf diciary-on high and solid ground, where r the judges would be entireiy beyond cono trol, so far as their salary is concerned, ~- that we may have an entirely indepen)t dent judiciary to decide upon the law of e the country, with no sinister design in d making decisions favorable to the views 1. of any L~'gislature. Let such be not im puted to them, by making them depenl dent on the Legislature. - We all know the great pressure -omeftimes brought to bear by the legislative f department on the j udiciary department, .>in order to trample under foot the coustis tutional rights of persons, and thus gratiYfy a momentary passion or prej udice. s This is an evil, and for this reason we must intrench, as m~uch as we can, this ar~senal of popular liberty —the judicial det pertinent. It is said it would be an invidious disttinctionl, to give one judge more compens ation than another. That will amouont I to nothing. A, judge who gets jealous because another judge gets a little more ,.pay, is unworthy of the bench. When elected, a judge knows that during his dterm of (:)ffice,e hlis salary cannot be in creased or diminished. He would take ;the office knowing that. There shouldl lbe no rivalry whatever. F~or the good of the judicial tribunal it was thought best in Great Britain to elect judges for life, to make that depart ment of the governjmenlt entirely inde pendent. W~e abhor life offices, bult ad:mire an independent court. We have adopted this rule with the legislative department, which cannob in SEC. 6. The judges of the supreme cou in office at the adoption of this Constituti( shall contintue to hold their offices until th expiration of the term for which they we r respectively elected, and the chiet just. s shall continue to act as such until the expir ' tion of the term for which he was electe s after which the judges shall choose one their number chief justice. e The PRESIDENT. The Conventio n having declined to concur with th ts amendment of the Ccmmittee of th Whole, by which the seventh section wa stricken out, it is before the Conventio for its adoption. 1 Mr. BROWNING. I offer a substitu s for tlhe seventh section. The Secretary read the substitute offe ed by Mr. Browning, as follows: SEc. 7. From and after the adoption o this Constitution, the judges of the supren court shall each receive a salary of five thou r sand dollars per annum, payable quarterlv until otherwise provided law. And afte said salaries shall be fixed by law they sha s not be diminished during the term s f or whic said julgesr shall have been elected. Mr. ALLEN, of Alexander. I move t Wadd besore the word "dinminshed," a io creased cr" Mr. BROWNING. Mr. President: will state the reason why I o mitted th word "increased" in the pre para tion o the substitute for the se venth sect ion. The judges of the supreme court are no all elected at the same time. Ther e ar i ntervals of years occurring be t ween elec tions, and the te rms of s ome will texpir a t on e time and some at ano the r, so thae unless the ir salar ies can belincreased dur ing the ter ms forinwhich they are electen they cannot be i ncr ea sed at all, withou pro du cing inequale o alities of salaries amon the judgest on the bench, which, I think would have a pernicious effect upon the judges themselves. i here is very little danger of abuse i] the matter of increasing the salaries o judges. I hav e no recollection of eve having kno wn or heard of a judge weh received more salary than his talents, at tainments, and services entitled him to I am not an iware that there is any instancd of a complaint of a judge having receiven "more salary than he should have re ceived There is no d a nger in that directio n. If we adopt the amnd endment pro posed by the ge ntleman from Alexander [Mr Allen], it will put it out of the p ow er o f th e Legislature to in crease the salaries oH judTes at any ti me witho ut pr odu c ing inequalities, which would be regarded as invidious, aiad wou ld h ave an unhappy influence upon the minds of the judgej themselves. Mr. ALLEN, of Alexander. Mr. Presi den t: I d o ndot think there ought to be aly objection to retain in g the a~mounlt, as fixed by the committee- but it should not be increased during the con tinua tion in office.m Five thousand dollars is not too high a salary for services to be performed by our supreme judges, but it is enough. Judges of the supreme court, I admit, know thelaw, and, when asking ans election, are advised of their salaries. But the y oug h t to be above adt t emptation. Letlows he inearon with the act edis e d tmr persons, with the distinct understanding that their salaries shall not be increased or diminiished during their continuance in office. I have the highest regard for the supreme court of this State, but still I am strongly inclined to think that it would be in harmony with the action of Coolbaugh, R oss Wright, English, Scholfield, Mr. President-22. Haines of Lake, So the motion of Mr. Cary to reconsidel the fourth amendment to section five wa agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question i upon concurrence. Mr. CARY. Mr. President: I mov to strike out all after the word "law," ir the second line, down to the word "as,' in the third line, and insert the follow ing: The State shall be divided into three dis tricts for'he election of judges, and unti otherwise provided by law, they shall be as follows: The motion was agreed to. Mr. PARKER. Mr. President: I move to strike out "1870," and insert "1871," in the twenty-sixth line. It is not certain that we shall get through during the year 1870. The PRESIDENT. It is not in order, as it is an ame.-dinent proposed to the amendment of the Committee of the Whole, in which the Convention has con curred. Mr. GOODELL. Mr. President: In the last clause of this section, we have pro vided that Whenever the judicial divisions for the election of the said judges shall be altered, increased or diminished, the same shall be done, etc. We have provided for seven judges and seven election districts. Now, sir, how can those districts be increased? This refers to election districts or divisions. What sense does that word "increased" have in the twenty-seventh line? The PRESIDENT. Does the gentleman move any proposition? Mr. GOODELL. I move to strike out "increased." Air. BENJAMIN. I would suggest that the words "increased or diminished" probably refer to the size of the judicial districts, and not to the number. Mr. GOODELL. Then why not say so? I do not see that the word "increased" has any meaning at all. We have seven districts, and we cannot increase the number of districts, unless we increase the number of judges. Mr. TURNER. Mr. President. By the reconsideration of the prior clause and the adoption of the amendment of fered by the gentleman from JoDaviess [Mr. Cary], we have entirelyr prohibited a return to the division system, as suggested by the genltlemlan from Adams [Mr. Browning]. X, 1will be in order now, and will make this section harmonious and pertinent, to amend it as follows: by striking out of the twenty-sixth line the words " judicial division," and insert i~n lieu thereof, " districts;" strike out "increased or diminished," in the twentyseventh line, and also the words, " and of equal apportionment of judges, according to populationl." The section will then be complete in ali its parts. MIr. GOODELL. I will accept the amendment. The question being upon the amendment offered by Mr. Turner, it was agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the adoption of the fifth section. Section five wvas agreed to. The question is upon the adoption of the sixth section. The Secretary read section six, as follows:. APRIL 22, 1870. 1431 143w~~~ COSIUTOA COY%T RDY to the Legislature. But the Convention determined otherwise Mr. BUXTON. This leaves them to the Legislature. It only fixes them until otherwise provided by law. Mr. ALLEN, of Alexander. Well, inasmuch as it has been determined to fix the amount, I am in favor of five thousand dollars. As a general proposition I am in favor of low salaries, but I recognize the fact, as must every other gentleman who has given the subject reflection, that in providing pay for the judges of the supreme court, we provide pay for those wno constitute the court of last resort-those who pass upon the rights of personal property and liberty, upo)n every question that is sacred and dear to American freemen. I would not appear to be unmindful of the fact, that in the history of our State since 1847, our supreme court julges have, while discharging their duties in the most acceptable manner, been existing, rather than living, upon a salary wholly inadequate to the duties performed. I would have them above every influence, or feeling, every passion-everything outside of the clear, cool, consideration of the law of the case before them. Sir, the judiciary ought to be elevated. That department stands alone. It ought to command the respect and esteem of tihe people, for it has been true to the interests of the people, to their rights and liberties in the past. Five thousand dollars, sir, will not be too much. The judges have to labor night and day, in sunshine and storm, by candle light, lamplight, and gas-light. They ought to receive as much compensation as will make them perfectly independent. Now, sir, it is a mistake to suppose the people look more to a niggardly economy on this point, than to an elevated judiciary. It is economy to have good judges, to have the law truly and independently pronounced, and to have its expounders free from all partisan or improper influences. Economy must have been one of the motives for the motion to strike out five thousand and insert four thousand dol lars, but it is a mistake to suppose that the people require it. They want to stop stealing, and pay well their trusted vigils. "Give us good judges, and we will give them good pav," say the people. I have not expressed myself before in the Convention on the point, but I do not think enough credit is given to the sense of the people in this respect. They will not higgle between $4,000 and $5,000. It is not too much for first-class ability, and I think every man feels, or ought to feel, interested in getting first-class ability to serve in so exalted a position. Sir, let us be just to those from whom we expect defense of the Constitution and laws. If our judges do not prove true, where is the place of safety? To what tribunal can we point with hope? To none, sir. that I know of. Mr. COOLBAUGH. Mr. President: I hope the amendment offered by the honerable delegate from Grundy [Mr. Peirce] will prevail. Four'thousand dollars, Mr., President, is as much money to-day, as eight thousand dollars was five years ago. This is money enough, Mr. President, to command first-class talent in the State. The amendment was agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon striking out section seven, and inserting the substitute of the gentleman from Adams [Nlr. Browning]. Mr. PEIRCE. Mr. President: I move to strike out "five thousand dollars," and insert " four thousand dollars." I hope gentlemen will remember in j)uttirng salaries in the Constitution, that we are.rapidly returning towards a specie basis During tile period of the inflation of the currency, we have been in the habit of talking of hundreds and thousands of dollars as though they were trifling sums. We do not,:perhaps, realize how much mo-ney five thousand dollars is. If we should return to specie payment within twelve moonths, the tax-payers will regard that amount as a great deal of money. Four thousand dollars is, il my judgmaent, a very liberal salary for anyja. dicial dofficer ur rthe State government. Mr. HART. Mr. President: I hope the motiosvn of the gentleman from Grundy [,air. Peirce] will prevail. We sho3uld remember t hat the purchasing power of four thousand dollars is as much as six thousan-d dollars was four or five years ago. We are increasing the number of judges from three to seven, so that we, in the aggregate, -will be paying twenty-eight thousand dollars, whereas we have only been paying three thousand six hundred dtollars. I know the class of people I represent here, feel the weight of taxation, they feel upon this question of salaries, and so far as I have talked with the agricultural portion of our people, they all agree that four thousand dollars would be amply sufflcient. I hope the motion will prevail. Mr. ALLEN, of Alexander. Mr. President: I favored the early action of the Convention, leaving the fixing of salaries Mr. TURNER. Wil l the g entl eman allow me to ask a question? Mr. COOLBAUGH. Mr. President: I have the floor, and as I am not a lawyer, I prefer not to be interrupted. It is money enough, in my opinion, to command the very highest order of talent in this State. It is more money than is commanded to-day by a large majority of the practicing lawyers in Illinois, if I am not mistaken. I do feel that while the people are as sensative as they now are in respect to the expenditures of public moreys, we should not go too far in the liberal feelings we entertain towards the judiciary of this State. Mr. President, under the existirg Constitution, the salaries of our supreme judges have been on]/ twelve hundred dollars, and I have,heard delegate after delegate on this fidor, belonging to the legal profession, extolling ill the highest degree the character and attainments and purity (I have no doubt deservedly) of the supreme bench of this State. If deservedly, we have had no difficulty, under the very small compensation we have paid, in commanding the very best talent in the State. If that is so now, it will be so hereafter. I venture to say that if the salaries are fixed at even three thousand dollars until otherwise provided by law, there will be no scarcity of candidates, among the very best lawyers in this Commonwealth, for the supreme bench. I noticed, a few days ago, in the pro. ceedings of the Legislature of the neigh. boring State of Iowa, that the salaries of the three j udges there had j ust been fixed bv the Legislature, to whoin their Constitution had wisely left the question, at three thousand dollars. I know they have had no difficulty in procuring the very highest legal talent and attainments in that State. So it will be here. We shall have no difficulty in securing all the candidates wanted from among the most eminent members of the profession in this State for seats on the supreme bench. I hope we will not establish a precedent by fixing a sum higher than four thousand dollars, until the Legislature shall determine the salary. I think it is enough, in view of the condition of things and the increased value of money now as com. pared with a few years ago. I hope the proposition of the gentleman from Grundy [Mr. Peirce] will be adopted. Mr. BROMWELL. Mr. President: I hope the proposition of the genxtlemn~zt from Grundy [Mr. Peirce] will be adopted, for the reason that I think the sum he names is ample. We have too inflated ideas about the salaries of courts of all descriptions. Because a Constitution fixedd a salary, which afterwards became too smnall, and the people saw and ~'dmwitted it} it has become customary to dwell upon that, and it seems as though no amount of money at all was to be an adequate sum to be paid to these particular officers. We are to be told every day that we must commnand the highest talent of the members of the bitr, those receiving such great emoluments from their practice that they will not take the office. Sir, ~he very men who receive the greatest amounts from their practice at the bar, are not always the men wanted for j udges, Every member can verify' this. The class who make the best judges is of those who are not distinguished for CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION FRIDAY, 1432 crease its own compensation. The salaries of Governor and other State officers cannot now be increased or diminished during their terms. The same rule we have applied tD the compensation of the circuit judges. Why, tliein, should the ve,cy bihest court in the land, to which we look for a higher standard of rectitude than any other department, be gi-)verned by differer-it influences than the other departments? Surely not for the purpose of Gratifying the mere whim of the judge whose compensation may not be quite equal to the compei)sation of some other judges on the bench. The chief justice sometimes gets more compensation than his associates. Does that maketliemjealous? Iapprebeiidnot. I see by the newspapers that CODgress is tryidg to raise the compensation of Chief Justice Chase to twelve thousand dollars, while his associate justices, of equal power and responsibility, are to get but ten thousand dollars. This dis - tinction will often exist, but it ought to occasion no rivalry, and does not and wi It not in Doble n-linds. I trust the, amendment of the gentleman from Alexander [Mr. Allen] will be adopted. The PRESIDENT. The question is 'Upon the amendment of tile gentleman from Alexander [Mr. Allen], to insert after the word "be," in the substitute offered by the gentleman from Adams [.Mr. BrowniDg], the words 11 increased or.'I DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. ment. Is he called upon to do anythling else? Certainly not. And, sir, if he is the right sort of man, he will do that whether he is paid well or not. Let any man reflect upon his own experience, and say if his salary had any influence upon him in this regard. Why, sir, I have worked at $5,000 a year, and at $300 a year, and I know that the salary being high or low, did not induce mef to steal or prevent me from stealing. A man being honest, can be trusted on the bench. A man not being honest cannot be made honest. He may be "hired," to use the language of the gentleman from Alexander [Mr-. Allen], by giving him $5,000 a year, but he cannot be made an honest man by paying him well. Mr. WELLS. Mr. President: I regard a salary of four thousand dollars as not sufficient to command the first talent in the State on the supreme bench, and therefore I hope it will not be adopted. I regard five thousand dollars as the smallest sum that will command the best talent; therefore I hope it may remain. There are many reasons why, as a lawyer, I should be in favor of four thousand dollars, as it will call a class of indifferent judges to the bench, whose decisions will inevitably contain ntaily errors, will inevitably clash with each other, and they will inevitably be called upon to reverse and change them at frequent recurring intervals. This will promote litigation, and gentlemen who are engaged in law will find that they will pay as a penalty for indifferent talent upon the bench, a very high premium, and that in the long run the suitors had better pay the difference in the salaries, and save a large amount of money. Nevertheless, I think a majority of the members of the bar, in this Convention, and in this State, are honest enough to believe that the best judges will promote the best welfare of the State, and that, therefore, salaries should be paid sufficient to command the best talent. It is a fact very well known that lawyers whose abilities are sufficient to entitle them to sit upon the supreme court bench, can command more than four and even five thousand dollars in thtir practice-perhaps twice over. Mr. CUMMINGS. Does the gentleman wish us to understand by this argumerit he is making, that the increase of salaries to five thousand dollars, will in-a crease the intelligence, talent, ability and honesty of our present supreme court? HMr. WELLS. I do, sir. The supreme court is to consist of seven judges, the salary is to take effect upon seven judges, and will command better talent than $4,000. If the gentleman's proposition is correct, then $1,000 will command a grade of talent, and $5,000 would not command a better grade of talent. It is true that there will be no lack of applicants under the ${,000 clause. I apprehend there would be as many applicants for the judgeship under this clause as there would be under the $5,000 salary. Perhaps there would be as many if it were fixed at $3,000 or $2,000, but what would be the character of the applicants? That is what gentlemen must weigh and determine. Would a gentlemal, about to engage in a lawsuit, in v olving property to a large or small amount, employ counsel merely because he could secure his services at a cheap rate? We are here with the inter acquiring money at the bar. In the first place, there are many mean s by which a man may make a fortune at the bar be. sides being a man of great legal talent at the bar. He may have to do many things which a man fit for a conscientious judge will not do. Let a man honestly and c. refully advise every man who appeals to him, and send him off if he has no good cause, without a fee, and he may greatlv diminish his income as an attorney and counsellor —but he would be none the worse judge for that. Now, experience in our State has shown that we have commanded the very best talent the State afforded, without any trouble, during all the time the salary stood at bare one thousand two hundred dollars, and the salary of circuit judges at one thousand dollars. There was never a better set of circuit judges upon the surf-ce of the terra aqueous globe than in this State during all the time that the salary was one thousand dollars. Mr. ALLEN, of Alexander. Mr. President: I would like to ask the gentleman if he does not know it to be a fact that these circuit judges, and perhaps, supreme judges, have been engaged from the time their salaries were fixed in the Constitution of 1848, in constant efforts to raise the amount of their compensation in some indirect way? Mr. BROMIWELL. Mr. President: I do not know to what extent any particular judge may have attempted to influence the Legislature to raise his salary, but it is admitted all around that there was a time when the salary was too low. I admit that it became too low. But remember that low as it was, it did not prevent the State from securing the best talent in the State. Mr. ALLEN, of Alexander. Mr. President: I would like to ask the gentleman another question, if agreeable to him. Does he think that the difference between five thousand dollars and four thousand dollars would pay for the indignity of a supreme judge hanging around a Legislature and lobbying to increase his salary? Mr. BRO31WELL. Mr. President: If the supreme judges are guilty of anything which brings a reproach upon the bench, their terms ought to be shortened, and other men elected as soon possible. Let us fixs what we think is right, if we fix the salary, and then, if the Legislature cannot change it, judges will have no business comningf round and trying to influence the Legislature. I say five thousand dollars is too much, and that we have fixed the salaries of circuit judges too high. There is 110 doubt of it. Upon reflection, I think the people of the State will say so. The difference between the prices before the war and at the present tim~e, is not so great as the difference between the salaries of judges at that time and the salary which we have fixzed in this Constitution. If we go on multiplying judges, multiplying every kind of office, and then heaping up salaries at this rate, what will this thing be vhen we get through with it? I think there is no reason in the talk that is continually kept up about a judge being entitled to more than ably other servant, whose duties are of equal public importance. What does a judge have to do more than any other public officer? He is required to perform the duties of his office to the best of his ability and jud~ 859 YEMAS. Abbott, Forman, Parkg. Allen, of Crfd.,Fuller, Peirce, Anderson, Goodell, Poage, Bayne, Haines of Cook,Sedgwick, Bowman, Hankins, Sharp, Bromwell, Hart, Sherrill, Buxton, Harwood, Sutherland, Cary, Hay, Tincher, Church, Hildrup, Tubbs, Cody, King, Wagner, Coolbaugh, McCoy, Wait, Craig, Merriam, Washburn, Cross, Moore, Wendling Cummings, Neece, Whiting Dement, Parker, Wilson-45. Turner, Underwood, Vandeventer, Wall, Wells, Wheaton-19. APRIL 22, 1870. 1433 ests of this State in our charge. We are here making a Constitution for the people of this State, which if adopted, will be the law of the laud for a considerable length of time. 'We are now employing judges for the Sfate;willweeinploycheapjudges'? If so, vote for the amendment. If we desire to employ good counsel, vote to pay a fair salary. According to the figures which have been placed in my hands, the adoption of the amendment will save the people of the State, estimating the population at 3,000,000, the sum of twenty-five hundredths of a dollar each, per a-nnum. Mr. President, we are now to fix the salaries of judges for the State. Shall we fix it for them at a rate that will give the people a grade of intelligence as high as we can, or shall we fix it so as to give them a medium grade of intelligence, or a very low grade of intelligence? That question is to be decided by gentlemen here. The paltry consideration of saving a thousand dollars on the salary of a supreme judge, which is 1-2500 part of a dollar to each inhabitant of the State for a whole year, is not worth consideration. Any gentleman havidg a single suit amounting to one thousand dollars, could afford to pay the proportionate amount for all the members of this Convention for the rext ten years out of his own pocket, and not suffer. Let gentlemen vote for the interest of the State, and disregard all paltry minor considerations. Mr. NEECE. Mr. President: I move the previous question. Mr. CU-NIMINGS. Mr. President: I ask the gentleman to withdraw that for a moment. Mr. NEECE. I cannot withdraw it, Mr. President. The motion for the previous question was agreed'lo, and the main question ordered. The PRESIDENT. A division of the question has been called for. The question is upon striking out. The yeas and nays were ordered, and being taken, resulted-yeas, 45; navs, 19 -as follows: NA.YS. , Gamble, Goodhue, Hayes, Medill, Perley' Spinger, Allen, of Alx., Anthony, Benjamin, Browning, Eldredge, Ellis, Fox, T, OR NOT VOTIWG. Hanna, Scholfield, McDowell, Snyder, Pillsbury, Skinner, Rice, T i-uesdale, Robinson, Wright,. Ross,, Mr. President-19. Archer, Atkins, Brown, Bryan, Cameron, E,nglish, Haines of LI k, . So the motion of Mr. Peirce, to F3trilke I 434 co STITUTIONAL CONVENTION FRIDAY, out the words "five thousand dollars," was agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon inserting in the blank, "$4,000." The ame ndme nt off ered by Mr. Peir ce was agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon striking out and inserting the substitute, as amended. Mr. DEMENT. Before the question is put, I propose to offer an amendment. The PRESIDENT. The Convention is acting under the operation of the previous question, and the question, therefore, comes back to the motion to insert the substitute. The Secretary will read the section proposed to be stricken out. The Secretary read section seven, as follows: SEC. 7. From and after the adoption of this Constitution, and until otherwise, provided, the judges of the supreme court shall receive the compensation now allowed by law. The Secretary read the substitute offered by Mr. Browning, as follows: SEC. 7. From and after the adoption of this Constitution, the judges of the supreme court shall each receive a salary of four thousand dollars per annum, payable' quarterly, until otherwiseprovided by law; and after said salaries shall be fixed by law, they shall not be increased or diminished during the terms for which said judges shall have been elected. The PRESIDENT. The question is on the motion to strike out, and insert the substitute. The motion was agreed to. So section seven was stricken out. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the adoption of the substitute, and it will be declared adopted. Mr. ANTHONY. Can it be amended now? The PRESIDENT. It cannot. The Convention is,aCtiDg under the operation of the previous question, which was not limited to an amendment. The question is now upon section eight. The Secretary read section eight, as follows: SEC. 10. At the time of the election for representatives in the General Assembly, happening next preceding the expiration cfthe terms of office of the present clerks of said court, one clerk of said court for each division (unless otherwise provided by law) shall be elected, whose term of office shall be six years from said election (but who shall not enter upon the duties of his office until the expiration of the term of his predecessor), and ever y six years thereafter, one clerk of said court for each division shall be elected. Mr. FOX. Mr. President: I move to strike out the words in parenthesis: "unless otherwise provided by law." Mr. CARY. Mr. President: I move to lay the motion on the table. The motion was agreed to. Section ten, as amended in Committee ofthe Whole, was agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon section eleven, as amended in Committee of the Whol e. The Secretary read section eleven, as follows: SEc. 11. After the year A. D. 1874. inferior appellate courts, of uniform organization and jurisdiction, may be created in districts formed for that purpose, to which such appeals and writs of error may be prosecuted from circuit and other courts as the General Assembly may provide, and from which appeals and writs of error shall lie to the supreme court in all criminal cases and cases in which a firanchise or freehold, or the validity of a statute is involved, and in such other cases as may be provided by law. Such appellate courts shall be held by such number of judges of the circuits courts, and at such times and places, and in such manner, as may be provided by law: Provided, that said judges shall not receive any additional compensation for such services. But no judge shall sit in review upon cases decided by him. Mr. NEECE. Mr. President: Imove to strike out section eleven. Mr. HAINES, of Cook. Mr. President: We have created here seven judges, we have increased the supreme judicial force of this State by four members, we have increased their salaries four-fold, we have saddled upon the people of this State the increased expenditure in that direction very largely, but still it is proposed to put a dam between the circuit courts and other courts of record in this State, and the supreme court. I am opposed to any such proceeding, and as a delegate upon this floor. I deem it my duty, in behalf of my constituents and myself, to express my views upon this question. I am for striking out the section. Mr. VANDEVENTER. Mr. President: I move the previous question. The PRESIDENT. The previous question is moved. Shall the main question be now put? The motion for the previous question was agreed to, and the main question ordered. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the motion to strike out the e l leenth section. Mr. NEECE. Mr. President: I call for the yeas and nays. The yeas and nays were ordered, and being taken, resulted-yeas, 35; nays, 30 -as follows: y Goodell, Parks, Goodhue, Perley, Harwood, Sherrill, Hay, Springer, Haves, Tincher, Hildrup, Underwood, King, Wagner, Medill, Wall, Merriam, Wheaton, Moore, Whiting-30. ~BSENT, OR NOT VOTING. Haines of L'ke,Scholfield, McDowell, Snyder, Pillsbury, Skinner, I Poage, Truesdale, Robinson, Wright, Ross, Mr. President-18. So the otion of Mr. Neece, to s trike out section eleven was agreed to. The Secretary read section twelve, as follows: SEC. 12. The circuit courts shall have origi. nal jurisdiction of all causes in law and equity, and such appellate jurisdiction as is or may be provided by law; and shall hold two or more terms each year in every county. The terms of office of judges of circuit courts shall be six years, and the present judges shall hold their offices until otherwise provided by law. ABOLISHMfENT OF GRAND JURIES. Mr. DEMENT. Mr. President: I offer the following amendment to section twelve. The Secretary read th e amend ment offered by Mr. Dement, as follows: Insert in third l ine, a fter the word "county," the following: "And no grand jury sha ll be appointed or impanneled in circuit courts, but offenses rhall be prosecuted therein in such manner as may be provided by law." Mr DEMENT. Mr. President: We are exerting ourselves to have the laws expounded and executed efficiently, and at the same time econ omically. I am satisfied th at this gra nd jury system has ceased to be any protection to the interests or the rights of the people in any of the forms, involving life, liber. ty, property or character. It is an abuse in its operation on almost every one of these rights and privileges. I do not wish to take up much of the time of the Convention, but I will refer to a few statistics, which I do hope the members of the Convention will listen to. In 1862, when the Constitutional Convention was in session, this subject was tunder consideration, and they sent out to he circuit courts throughout the State, and obtained from these courts official statements of the number of indictments by the grand jury in the year immediately preceding the session of the Convention, to-wit: 1861. A statement is made here. I will read a few lines. In 1861 the grand jury system cost the State, for the pay of grand jurors alone, without the incidental expenses, sixtyvthree thousand one hundred and twenty-seven dollars and seventeen cents. During that year the indictments returned to court numbered four thousand six hundred and eighty-two, of which only six hundred and eighty-two were tried, or four thousand less than were indicted. Of the six bundred and eighty-two cases tried, three hundred and fifty two were acquitted, and three hundred and thirty were con. victed out of four thousand six hundred and eighty-two, at a cost of sixty-three SEC. 8. Appeals and writs of error may be taken to the supreme court in the division where the case is decided, or, by c onsent of the parties, to any other division. Mr. WELLS. Is it proper to move an amendment to the e ighth section? If i t is, I desire to move that appeals may be taken, by consent of parties, to Chicago. There is a provision in the article relating to Cook county, that the supreme court shall hold a term there. Mr. President, I move to add to end of section eight the words " or to the term at Chicago." Mr. ALLEN, of Crawford. Mr. President: I move tolay the motion to amend upon the table. The motion was agreed to. Section eight was agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon section nine. The Secretary read section nine, as follows: SEC. 9. The supreme court shall appoint one reporter of its decisions, who shall hold his office for six years, subject to removal by the court. Section nine was agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon section ten, as amended in Committee of the Whole. The Secretary will read. The Secretary read section ten, as follows:.. YEAS. Abbott, Dement, WSh edgwick. Allen of Au lexE-,lis, Sharp, Allen of Cr'fd.,Forman, Sutherland, Anderson, Fox, Tubbs, Bayne, Haines of C'ok,Turner Bowman, Hankins, Vandeventer, Buxton, I~art, Wait, Cameron, McCoy, Washburn, Coolbaugh, Neece, Wells, CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION Fp.rDAY, 1 —434 Craig, Cross, Cummings, Parker, Peirce, Rice, Wendling, Wilson-35. NAYS. Anthony, Benjamin, Bromwell, Browning, Cary, Church, Cody Eldrdge, Fuller, Gamble, Archer, Atkins, Brown, Bryan, En —Ii"h' H.7nna, API 2 80DBTS-POED~S-13 had been found to be an engine of greater oppression than any other thing in the law. When a man wants to attack an other man, and blacken his memory, he resorts to the grand jury, because there is no responsibility about it. If we have intelligent justices of the peace, we bring up a man charged with crime before him, in open day, bring for ward our evidence and our witnesses, and have the matter investigated in open day. The grand jury is an irresponsible body in this country, governed by no law ex cept that of tradition. It is secret where it should be open; it is open where it should be secret. It is contrary to the whole genius and spirit of the institutions of' this country. When a man is charged with a crime, which may blacken his memory forever, he should be brought before a tribunal competent to try him, and the charge there made and investigated in open daylight; for I undertake to say that when a man has been indicted by a grand jury, by persons stealing into a back door, a stigma is put upon that man's character which nothing in this -world can remove. In the Constitutional Convention of 1850, which was assembled in the State of Indiana, gentlemen will find the subject discussed at great length, some of the ablest men in the State taking the position that grand juries had outlived their usefulness. In the State of Michigan, when the Constitutional Convention assembled, in 1850, they accumulated facts, and came to the same conclusion, the best judges and lawyers of that State uniting in abolishing it. I have taken pains to inquire how it works in that State, and find it succeeds to a charm. Had I known that this discussion would have come up here this afternoon, I would have furnished to this Convention facts and evidence. If gentlemen will look at the facts that were presented to the House of Commons, they will find that where it was applied to the city of London, it was found to be a most expensive machine, productive of great abuse, and that although it was an old and antique institution, they decided to abolish it -so far as the city of London was concerned. The argument is made frequently, that it is an antique institution; but if we were appealed to on account of its antiquity, there is no abuse in olden times or modern times but what can be proven correct, and sustained on account of its antiquity. It is th~e only relic of the old star chamber that is left, is entirely contrary to the genius of our institutions, and, in my judgment, can be supplanted without a jar, and without interfering at all with the administration of criminal law. The suggestion I would make for its removal would be this (a thing which I have endeavored to provide for in the Cook county article), to have the highest grade of intelligence in those acting as justices of the peace, or as judges. Let those men be selected for their intelligence or appointed by the Governor. Then when a man is charged with any crime, he can be brought before that body of magistracy, and, after an -examination in open day, the ev'dence being taken down and certified to, the State's Attorney can file an information, thousand one hundr ed and twenty seven dollars and seventeen cents. Now, I have only to add that I regard this grand jury as a star chamber system, where ex parte hearings are had, where the time of the people in the country is occupied in listening to six hundred and eighty-two cases out of four thousand, where there were no grounds for indict ments. The people of the State, in my opinion, and in my region, I feel sure, are desirous of dispensing with the grand jury. We have had cases where persons have been indicted who knew nothing of their ever having committed an offense. The county has been put to the expense of sending the sheriff, and summoning them into court, and when the case has been presented, and the party has had the right to defend himself against the indictments in more than a hundred cases out of a hundred and ten, there has been no foundation for the indictment. I cannot, formy part, see the necessity of perpetuating the grand jury system, unless it is on ac. count of its age, and I have heard it said here by gentlementhat we are not to be governed by precedent, but by our food judgment as to what will best protect the interests of the country. The measure I propose would go far to save a portion of the expenses that we are imposing upon the people by the additional offices that we are creating in this Constitution, and I think it should receive the serious consideration of those who desire to protect the taxpayers of the State. Mr. WENDLING. Mr. President: I would like to ask the gentleman from Lee [Mr. Dement] a question. As he is the mover of the resolution, I presume he has given the subject some investigation. It is a matter in which I feel a great interest, and I would inquire if he has investigated its operation in other States? Other States have abolished this grand jury system. Does he know how they have got along without it? Mr. DEMENT. No, sir, I do not assume to have followed it in its operation in other States. I have only observed its workings in the State of Illinois. Mr. ANTHONY. Mr. President: I would ask what is the state of the qluestion? The PR:ESID:ENT. The Secretary will read the amendment of the gentleman from Lee [Mr. Dement]. The Secretary read the amnendment offerred by Mr. Dement, as follows: Insert in third line, after the word, "county," the following: "And no grand jury shall be appointed or impanneled in circuit courts, but offenses shall be prosecuted therein in such manner as may be provided by law." Mr. ANITHONY. Mr. President: If the gentleman could withdraw that and bring it up at another time, I would join him in the advocacy of putting the grand jury in course of ultimate extinction. There are facts pertaining to this subject of great interest, and if gentlemen have investigated them, they will find that there is some basis for the the observation and expelience of the gentleman from Lee [Mr. Dement]. In the State of Connecticut it has been abolished for mlore than forty years. In the State of Michigan it was abolished in 1850. About th ~. same:ime, by an act of parliament in Great Britain, it was abolished in the city of London, becaus eff i t s t t s t APRIL 22, 1870, DEBATES AND PROCEEDING-S. 1435 to take the place of an indictment by a grand jury. In my judgment, we could safely do that in this country. The secrecy of a'grand jury, which would startle aDy person not familiar with its history, becomes perfectly regular, when it appears in all history, only as an accuSIDg and inforniiu-u tribunal, although evidence was frequently submitted to it in open court. A number of reasons have been given why the proceedings Of a grand jury should be secret, the principal Ones being that it would prevent the subordation of perjury, and would shield timid jurors from being overawed by the power and connections of the individual charged. In the present age, when life, reputation and property are all so carefully guarded, no such reason can be, adduced, or if adduced, cannot have the least force whatever' Surrounded as we are by all the guaranties of an enlightened eivilizatiod, and living under a Constitution which secures to every individual the largest personal liberty, it-would appear to be entirely anomulous in its character, and utterly antagonistic to the whole theory of our government, and the spirit of our institutions. "If it be a judicial tribunal," as one writer has said, 11 its secrecy is at vai iadce with all experience, and the whole theory of the English law, aDd its power to adjudge upon knowledge of its own members without oath and without evidence, accu,sator et judex, accuser and iudle, or judge and jury, would make it ppar at variance with the theory of all judicial proceedings with whieh we are familiar." If it be only an informing and accusing, and not judicial tribunal, its entire independence of the court, which it is the tendency of modern discussion to establish, CODtradicts the theory of the judicial systpm of England, ai3d its irresponsibilitv contravenes as well that, as the American constitutiodal and statutory guaranties. Sir William Blackstone lauds it to the shies as the soul of English liberty, but Jeremy Bentham condemns it as deforming Enalish Judicial proceedings, whose publicity is their honest boast. In Connecticut, the prisoner is admitted to the grand jury room and permit 1436 UONSTJTUTJONAL CONYETJO- FRIDAY, [Mr. Dement] would be made at the time he made lt. Mr. DEIENT. Mr. President: I have no desire that this dispensing with the grand jury should be incorporated in any particular part of the Constitution. I am perfectly willing to unite with gent l emen upon any course they may think will harmonize the article. It harmonizes very well with the article as it is. But if there is any other place where it will come in, I am in favor of that plan. Inasmuch as the motion was made, I desired to say a word upon it, with a view to have it carefully considered. Mr. ALLEN, of Alexander. Mr. President: Of course this is no new question to any lawyer. I have thought of it for years, and have opinions, honestly entertained, however erroneous they may be deemed by members of the Convention. I regard this grand jury system as the one dark spot upon our glorious judicial system; as a relic of the star chamber; as a well-defined adjunct of the old inquisitorial order that prevailed for so great a length of time in the old world. In my opinion no public good is subserved by retaining it. The object of criminal law is to punish the guilty, but while punishindg the guilty, to give all persons charged a fair opportunity of appearing, confronting their witnesses, of having their charge investigated, and passed upon by a jury of their country. The grand jury system prejudges the indicted party's case. It is regarded by many persons, and always so insisted upon by State's Attorneys as primafacie evidence of guilt, that a grand jury have returned an indictment against an individual. What is the mode of procedure in this secret and often ignorant and prejudiced organization? The foreman is sworn and instructed, independent of his oath to hear evidence upon one side only, thus making the body of which he is the head, the receptacle of malice, ill-will and bad feelings, and depriving the accused, however innocent, of any right to appeal and be heard by his witnesses, or put in a defense. He has no say; but his reputation, liberty and property, are passed upon and judgment rendered to the extent of making him give bail or suffer imprisonment. However honest a grand jury may be, yet acting under the oath of their foreman to which they all have to subscribe, and the instruction of the court, they can not call any witnesses to manifest the innocence of the accused. Look at it in a practical point of view. It is expensive, independent of being wrong in itself. It cripples the courts in the prompt and proper discharge of business. Persons charged with failing to do their duty, supervisors of public roads, persons charged with violating the Sunday laws, or violating the liquor law, or for any of the enumerated misdemeanors, cannot be summoned upon information before the proper officer, and have a trial at once, but this star chamber proceeding must be gone through with. The witnesses may come from all parts of the country, and remain for days, to testify as to whether A-or B has violated any law, or committed any misdemeanor. The case, after bill of indictment is found, amay, on application of the State's Attorney, be continued to the next term, and those witnesses be required to appear at two terms. What is the histor y and object of this grand jury system, I will not now go into a discussion of. It was thought to be justifiable when first initiated. Lord Thurlow-whatever may be said against his sternness, nothing was ever uttered against his honesty, and not much against his ability-said th at the plea for the system was never sati sfactory to him. Yet admitting there was satisfactory e xcuse on the ground of kingly interference, that excuse has passed away, and does not now exist in this country, vhere we have, as yet, no kings. When a man has been guilty of a crime, prefer information against him, charge him with it, tell him what he has been guilty of, summon him, telling him to bring his witnesses, let him have a fair trial, and there will be nothing to co~mplain of. Do not comipel him to meet a prima facie case gotten up before a secret council organized to find indictments, organized, not for the purpose of seeing the laws executed, but to indict individuals all over the country, without regard to their guilt or innocence-they not being allowed to appear by themselves, counsel or witnesses. I hope that this Convention, at some time, or by some means or other, will settle the question about grand juries, and vote them a nuisance. Mr. TURNER. Mr. President: I hope that no disagreement among members as to where or how this clause shall come in, will operate against the adoption of the clause, substantially, at least, as proposed by the gentleman from Lee [Mr. Dement]. An experience of a little more than thirty years at the bar-a portion of the time as prosecuting attorney at a very critical period in our history-has convinced me beyond all question that this grand jury system is a most cruel and unjust one. If I were to stand up here and simply give my experience and observation as a prosecuting attorney, and as an attorney who has had a very considerable experience in defending men accused of crime, it would startle those who have never considered the subject. I may be pardoned for illustrating by a single example. I was once attending court, sir, when a man holding a position in that court, entered my room and said to me, almost in this language, "4Turner, there will be a man to see you here in a short time. I am about having him indicted. tHe is rich. I ask of you one favor. He will pay you whatever you ask, and I wish you to bleed him freely." I was amazed. I gave him an evasive answer. He went out. In less than one hour after that a man of wealth, a man of respectability, a man of family, a mall with a wife and children, came into my office, pale and trembling. He sunk down, unable to stand, and his first swords were, "My God, Turner, I am indicted." A private feud between two neighbors led to that man's indictment, trial, and I will say triumphant acquittal, of a very heinous crime. This is only one instance. The experience of other lawyers unquestionably has beenl the same as msine. Now, sir, I am not one of those men who would ruthlessly trample upon precedent and the established order of things, but, sir, I do honestly believe that vwe shall entirely fail to perform our, duty to the intelligent citizens of upon the industry of each county in this State, or eigh teen o r twenty me n to be called twice a year and kept in session a week or ten days. An d yet a free government m-iay require more checks and balances than a pure despotism. In the advancing stages of civilization, as the machinery of the body politic becomes more complex, the simple wants and usages of savage life will not meet the wants of civilized man, and we should cheerfully bear whatever burdens are necessary to the support of good government. 3. The grand j ary is a secret and ex parte tribunal, is contrary to the genius and spirt of the present age, and is liable to great abuses. MKen go before grand juries to make light-and frivolous accusations, which they would not dare to make in the face of day. The malevolent go there to gratify their malevolence, to pull down the honest reputation of his neighbor, and it is one of the commonest things for an indictment to be procured with the idea that, if.he party does not get his victim convicted, the infamy of the accusation will cling to him as long as he lives, and that, if acquitted, the person will never again occupy the same position in society which he did before he was suspected. The proceedings of grand juries are anomalous in our system of jurisprudence. Oftentimes thieves and villains use its machinery to prosecute their victims, and effect their own escape. The publicity of courts affords the best guarantee of their purity, because if prejudice, or partiality, or corruption existed, the world would see the indication of it; but in the grand jury room, like the inquisition or the star-chamber, all is enveloped in darkness. If any person were accused of a crime, would he prefer a secret ex parts examination, or choose to hear the testimony, cross-examine, sift it, and explain it! The particular mode of conducting proceedings in the grand jury room is just about all that there is secret in it; about the results there is no secrecy. The grand jury are sworn to secrecy, but the witnesses are not, and the miscalled sescrets of the grand jury room are blazoned to the accused and the world. 4. No man should be tried for an aggravated crime, unless a complaint in writing, and under oath, has been mnade to a magistrate, and an opportunity given the accused to defend himself. The magistrate should then proceed to hear the allegations and evidence on the part of the prosecution and accused, and if probable cause is found to believe him guilty, a certificate to that effect should be made to the prosecuting officers, which should form the basis of an Information against the accused. I would commit no power or discretion, mlore than the prosecuting officer now possesses, into that officer's hands. When a man commits theft, robbery or mpurder, people do not wait for a session of the grand jury to arrest him, but they arrest him at once on the spot. 5. When first instituted, a grand jury was of value. Then the k~ing, by his fiat, could send a man to hi,s creatures to be. tried, then to the dungeon, and to death; but the occasion which gave it birth has passed away. Mr. ALLEN, of Alexander. Fir. President: I did no~t know trust the motion of the honorable gentleman from Lee, CONSTITU-TIONAL CONVE-NTION - Fi?,IDAY, 1436 DEBATES AND PROCEEDING1S. I prosecuting attorney, have acted as circuit p judge, and as counsel in defending a great, nuuumber of criminals, and my best ljudgmenert is, that nearly every man who has been indicted for a crime or misde meanor, was morally guilty, or at least prcbably no>t innocent, and that a niraijo ri ty of those indicted are acquitted by false swearing ai d technicalities, or the absence of witnesses. Mr. ALLEN, of Alexander. The gen tleman having stated that he has been at one time a prosecuting attorney, and at another time ajudge —both of which po sitions he filled with great credit-I ask him if it is not his experience that of those indicted, three fourths, or even six sevenths are acquitted, on trial? Mr. UNDERWOOD. Mr. President: They were acquitted, on the ground that there was reasonable doubt, and if a case can be turned by lawyers into any possi ble shape, to raise a doubt, the jury will It t the criminal off. I have participated in trials on both sides, and have observed cases of other attorileys, and I do not be lieve that grand or petit juries would, one time ill a thousand, convict an inoio cent man. They always lean to the side of humanity and mercy. Suppose an innoceut man does suffer-he is like a man who falls in battle for his country's good. It will not do to let all men escape who are charged with crimes. The most perfect system might be perverted. But our system requires that first twelve grand jurors shall agree upon an indictment, and then, with the benefit of counsel, twelve more men must unanimously agree that he is guilty (for, if one differ, a new trial is instituted). If a man is wealthy he can spirit away witnesses, or ind.uce them to swear in his favor, and frequently, by undue means, guilty men escape. Why destroy this citizeu's tribunal, the grand jury, composed ofthe bone and sinew of the country, and substitute a prosecuting attorney-a sort of catch-pall, who will be subject to bribery or corruption, or party influence, which can be brought to bear more powerfully upon one o(fficer than upon twenty four subta,ntial citizens? Itf such influence control him, the liberties of the people will be subject to one man's malice or power to prosecute them when he thinks proper, before a petit jury. No, sir; if I am to live in Illinois, and in a free country, let my case go first before a jury of may neighbors, who have known me for years, and know the accuser, and will properly weigh the testimony. Give us, also, that great shield of liberty, the subsequent trial by an imapartial jury of citizens who have not fiermed or expressed an opinion, with the benefit to the accused of counsel and argument, and of a doubt, if there be one-and the liberties of the people of this State will be safe as we can make them. mIn tearing down this system, gentlem:n will consider that we must substi o tgte something else. What is that? Would we take a case like that suggested by the gentleman from Stephenson [Mr. Turner] -of a man going into the office of the prosecuting attorney and telling himi "I want this man prosecuted; he is my enemy. I want to make him bleedsto make him suffer. Here is a small sum of b money; prosecute him. I will get persons to swear the case through." A manr might thus be disgraced, or put to a vast amount of trouble, and vexations and ex I i I APRIL 22, 18 i'O, 1437 the State (' f Illinois, if we fail to incor porate ill this Coi,,,titutioD, squarely,,tiid fairly, a provision tli,,it tlii.,s ol(l, effete, mucti-abused in,,,tit,,ition,Iiall at once cease to exist ii.L our State. I am in'favor of tt-ie ii:iea.ure, pure and ,simple. I'desire tio cotnprotiiise-no de lays, but ai-n in favor of strikidg it out, all at once. I atit atistied that the peo ple will not only approve what we do in that resf-)ect, but they will, as long as they remember us, i-etyic-,niber us' as their ben efactors. I ani, therefore, i-li favor of the section ali-nost i.u the la,,iguage reported by the ueiitleti-ia-ti from Lee [Mr. Dement], wi.tli this ex(,,eption: I would strike out the word "appointed," where it occurs. lvlr. DENIE-NTT. Afr. President: I accept the a-iiietidn-ieiit. I'h e P It E S I D E, N T, p ro temp ore (M r. Hayes ia the chair), The question is upon tl-ie ametidtiie-tit offet-ed'by the gentlemau frotii Lee [iN,,Ir. Dement]. -Mr. U-,iDERWOOD. lvlr. President: I am s,)wew li,,tt e.,Liiazed at the unexpected and extraordinary views presented by learded aud experienced gentlemen on this prop.,),Itl()Il. It i,,, iio true, sir, that the grand jury f3ysteii-i tius been abused; but what good iiii-i g 1-ias i.ot been abused and pervert( —(! frotii the eiid f(r which it was desigiied? Is lot civil government abused, and stiall it therefore be abolished? W 1-io are the grand jurors in this country? Why, sir, are they Dot the most, substt,:t,.,ltia-L men from the different parts of our c,)uliti(-s, interested in law aiid or-' dcr, in the s(.-curity of life, liberty and property.9'Sion of experience, solid, substantial. men assembled tooether, who take o,,it,',i to ii-.quire into, and true presentment make, of all within their kriowledge, aLd to present no one from hatred, malice or ill-will, and to lea,e rio one unpresented from fear, favor or affection. Sir, it is a part and parcel of our goverdn-ient. It makes the people feel that it is their goverrimeltt. They who are Diost interested take a commor, and most part in protecting the I)uL)tic agAii.ist public Offenders and violaters of the law. It i. true they proceed secretly with their investigations. Why secretly? If it was o en at,.d ublic, every offender peiise, by -iicli a prosecution originating in the iiialicc-, of one man. No, sir;, my deliberate opinion is that twe.,jty four jurors of a neighborhood is safer than any one or five men who cail be selected-twenty-four of the yeomanry of the country, equally interested with you, me aiid everybody else in carrying f,)n our government. But there is another class of cases [Herethe hammer fell]. Mr. BRO,-NIWELL. Mr. President: It may be'true that the grand jury systein is abused. The law itself may throw too inady frivolous matters in the hands of grand juries, and thus CODSUIDE time and cause eXpeLlse, but I am surprised that gentlemen should designate the grand jury as a "relic (,f the star chamber." 'What is our idea of any court or tribunal, when we speak of it as a star chamber? We mean some institution which works in the dark to overcome, circumvent and oppress the freeiyian in his rights; whereas the -rand jury was instituted to stand between the crown and the people, on the principle that a freemaa should not be put on his trial at the instance of the crown, ui-iless twelve good men would say, on their oaths, he ought to be. That is the theory of a grand j ury. And let me say here, that while we adinire the progress made by our English forefathers, by which the foundations of our liberty were laid, through IODG cen. turies this very grand jury system stand. iDg between the people and the crown, oetwe en the freemen and the star cbamber, by its continuous inflLieDce, contributed as much to settle the fouiadatioii of human freedom in the minds and senti. ments and opinions of the EDgliSh peo. ple as any other oDe institution known to that island. Mr. ALLEN, of Alexander. Mr. Pre. —,ident: If the gentleman will allow rue, I will ask him, as a lawyer, if he does not recognize the fact that the reasons for the institution of a grand jury in this country have not obtained as they did then? Mr. BROMWELL. Mr. President: Even during our civil war, there were in the minds of some of our people some apprehensions of encroachments by Gov. -erilors or the President, and a fear that they would be seized and put upon 1438 COSTITUTJOAL COYENTJO- FRIDAY, jury is this: It is not the arsenal for the protection of the innocent, but the arseIgal of the villain through which he assails the character of the American citizen. And as proof of the fact, I have only to say that of all the indictments attempted to be obtained by pres~ ntmenits before a grand jury, nine-tenths only are obtained and three-fourths of all indicted are acquitted When this is true of any system it ought to be abolished. It is the only black, damning stain upon our judiciary, and I hope the Convention will wipe it out. The people, or at any rate my constituel ts, demand that it shall be abolished. It is the agency through which the cow ardly assassin of character insidiously stabs the reputation of his neighbor. Let us have a system where the accused and the accuser shall appear face to face, and the accused have a fair chance for. aimpartial trial. Before a grand jury the accused knows nothing oa' the offense, is not notified in the least, can have no opportunity to introduce testimony, cannot be heard either by himself or his attorney. It is a one-sided affair entirely. In saying that we wish to abolish the grand jury, we do not make any assault upon grand jurors. They may be honest lmen. They only hear one side of the question. They have to make up their i-nnds from one sided testimony, anId upon that testimony they find an indictment, thus indorsing and perpetuating the foul aspersions of the robber of character, who having himself no reputation, would drag to his own miserable level, his innocent neighbor, and who is thus enabled to fasten a stain upon the character of his offspring. If it were not wrong, there would be more convictions than there are. I hold this to be true-that the grand jury does not protect the American citizen, but that it does often imprison him when innocent; and a system thus capable of blasting reputation should be abolished-stricken fromr the statute book of every civilized state. We will be derelict in our duty, if we fail in carrying this important amendment. I consider it more important than any that has been proposed to the judiciary system-more important to the n-masses, more important to every citizen of Illinois, man, woman and child. The system of indicting is wrong. Let the accused and the accuser appear face to face in the commencement of the accusf sation, and let there not be a delay until the stain is fastened upon an honest man's character, that must follow him to the grave, and descend to his children after he has gone. Let us remove this damnable blot from the escutcheon of our noble State. Let it no longer be said of us that a grand jury can assemble inl the State of Illinois. The people will rejoice, and the American citizen will feel that he is safer without it than with it. My friend from Coles [Mr. Bromwell] said that the grand jury was instituted to protect the people front the crown. Thank God, the Atlantic rolls between the citizeLs of Illinois, and the crown, which the grand jury was instituted to protect. I hope the time will never come when the crown will rest ove~r the St teof Illinois. If there is no crown to threaten us, we have no need of a grand jury in accordance with the argu 1438 CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION - FP.ID.&Y) hold the issues of life and death, and of freedom in their bands? What is the grand jury but the organized agency of the people, its members selected, if the law be carried out, from the very best in the country, and sworn not only to hunt down criminals, but to see that the freeman is protected? Now, sir, it wag, in olden time, supposed to be contrary to the dignity of an Englishman, to be put on his trial, unless twelve mea of the country should say he ought to be-and is the dignity of an American citizen less to be regarded in a land where all are sovereigns, than that of an English subject of the crown? More than this, sir, are we certain, that waw)atdllav,attio systeinoffreegoveri-ament we have'to-day, if the sturdy Englishmen, five hundred years ago, had not in stituted just such things as this, to protect and keep alive this principle of buman freedom ia the oputar mind, in opposition to the encroachments of the power either of king or star chamber? The beneficial influences of the grand juries are uot in the particular things which are done in this neighborhood or that, but in the general result in the minds of the people. It is one of the inStitUtiODS which contribute to rivet in the minds of the people these principles which we cannot do without, which we cannot spare from our political or judicia-I system. The gentleman from Cook [Mr. Anthony] says this is all to be done away with, by having the very best men picked out for justices of the peace. That is, t,) my mind, an utopian idea. We would pick no better men for justices of the peace, after the grand jury is abolished than now. If we can pick such good men for justices of the peace, why not so pick grand jurymen-and upon the whole we do pick as good men. And do they not, in the administration of their functions, very frequently make inquisitions into and bring to justice dens of thieve,,, and gamblers and offenders against the law, which otherwise would escape justice? And do they not protect many thousands of innocent men, bv ignoring the prosecutio-ns which are brought before them by justices of the peace and from elsewhere? . If we shal", pass right over grand juries, and commence in court, in ttic first in ment of the gentleman from Coles [Mr. Bromwell]. 16 is to prevent the indictment of honest men that we, desire to do away with the grand jury system. It is to protect the innOCeDt, to protect the honest. The tliief, the blii-glttr, the vile man cap- be just as well prosecuted in open day light as he can iu a secret orgatjiz,-ition, and that man who ftils to aid in prosecution of the law, that man who would -not prosecute a criminal in ol,)en dav, before a court, is a coward, unworthy 6ie name of American citizen. If the (,,ffoil-se has been ct)mniitted, and we want to punish the criminal,'let us do it iii open day, not sneakingly; let us not go into a grand jury room and (yet a man iridcted when we would not prosecute the case in open court. We know that spi(2s alid pimps are around for the purpose-the very identical purpose-of obtaiiiiig testimony that will indict some citiz,-,,i berore a grandjury, when they know well that he cannot be convicted in court. Let us do away with this s-,'stem. It only works hardship oil tfle inerican people. It only deprives tlieiu of their rights, destroys their happiness and character, and ii)jures not o,.Iily t.lieni, but their wives and children. Lt,.t us do away with it; let us so organize the, law that every Ameiican citizen sliall be pr,,)tect(d; that from the c(4ilimelicemei —,t of a,,uit where life or liberty or property is at stake, he sl-iall be tried in opera dav, stiall start with the accuser, ati(i have a fair chance in every stage of the cas. Then we mete out justice. If we fait to do this, we will be derelict in our duty to the people an(i the State. People are advanci,,jg in iatelligence. They demand this ref(-)riii. I have talked with large numbers on this subject, and had intended to introduce a special section on the matter, but am glad it has been taken in hand by my f'rlej3d from Lee [Air. Demejjt], who, I am certain, will carry it through, as he has more power and ability to enforce his views than I have. Mr. AIEDILL. I desire to place myself on the record on behalf of the amendment of the gent,lemin from Lee [Mr. Dement]. I may be absent when the vote is taken, but I do not waut to be absent from the record. APRIL 22, 1870. DJBATES AD PROCEI1D1GS. 113$) and the government of society, as in any State in this Union. The other State is Michigan, one of the most intelligent States in the West. Both of these have abolished grand juries long years ago. Michligan has had the experience of a lifetime, without the costly incumbrance of a grand jury system, and, when the Convention made a new Constitution, a co uple of years ago, did it renew the grand jury system? Did the experience of eighteen years cause them to replac e that system in the new Constitution? If so, I have not heard of it. Mr. UNDERWOOD. Mr. President: I will ask-did not the people vote against the Constitution, among other reasons, because it did not restore the grand jury? Mr. EIEDILL. Mr. President: The Convention of Michigan never seriously thought of restoring it. The Constitution was voted down for very different reasons. Besides, how could it be oppos. ed for that reason, seeing that the old Constitution forbade grand jurors? Nothiing could be gained by opposing the new Constitution on that ground. I read all the leading papers of that country during the discussion of the ratification, and I tell the gentleman and this Convention, that no press contained an editorial or recorded a speech, of which I have any recollection, against the new Constitu tion, because it had not replaced the grand jury inquisition. No vote was cast against the new Constitution, because of its continued abolition, but I believe that if the grand jury system had been restored, and all the other objectionable features omitted, that restoration would have damnied it. The gentleman from Coles [Mr. Bromwell] argues that the grand jury system is a safeguard for the rights of the citizen. Why, I am amazed at the assertion. A safeguard for the rights of the citizen! That is not its purpose. The jury-the petit jury is the safeguard. The grand jury is the dagger that strikes a man in the dark. No, sir, it is no safeguard to the rights or liberty of any citizen, but is an inquisitorial, official darklantern tribunal, where character may be sworn away by vengeful miscreants, and innocent citizens flung into dungeons with the stigma of guilt indellibly marked upon them, though a jury of their peers pronounce them innocent, when tried byt honest sunlight in the presence of the accusers. I do hope that this useless, costly, harmful piece of legal machinery may be eliminated from our new Constitution. [Here the hammer fell]. ADJOURNMENT. Mr. McCOY. Mr. President: I regard this matter as "throwing a fire brand into the Convention," and therefore I move that the Convention do now adjourn. The motion was agreed to. So the Convention (at five o'clock and forty-eight minutes) adjourned. Our Father who art in heaven, we thank Thee for the blessings of a fiee, enlightened and Christian government. We thank Thee our Father, that we ar e not laboring and groaning under oppression as many people of the earth have through many ages been compelled to drag out a wetary existence. We thank Thee, Lord, for the blessings which Thou hast continued unto us, notwithstanding our unworthiness and our uufait,hful[less. We come to Thee, Father, to beseech Thee for the continuance of the mercies which Thou hast hitherto so richly bestowed upon us, and especially to visit that blessing upon the labors of this Convenition, that their work nmay be performed in the fear of God, and under divine guidance-that they may receive wisdom from above in order that the intricate and complicated relations which they have to consider may all be carefully and rightly adjusted; that every interest in life may be properly provided for, and that we may enjoy the blessings of good government, and a peaceful lile through the labors of those who are aeseinbled here at this time. Do Thou keep their families in health during their separation from them. May they live in the fear of God, to lay up for themselves not only a reward of approbation from tiheir fellow men, but also of l,ve from their God and Savior. Do thou preside over all the interests aind affairs of this government, in its general extent. GrantThy blessing upon the labors of the husbandman. Send us fruitful seasons-the early and the late rains, that there may be bread for the eater and seed for the sowerthat all may have reason to praise Thee for Thyprovidential bounties as well as Thy spiritual grace, through our Lord Jesus Christ. Amen. the dark, and back of the accused. The evidence is worse than exparte, because whil e wholly one-si de d, the accusp:d can nei ther cross-examine the witness, nor know wha t he test ifies to, a s there is no recor d kep t of what any one swears to before a grand jury. But one side is heard, but one side of that side, and that in secret. There is no cross examination by the accused in person, or by counsel, or by any one specially interested in the truth. A person may go before a grand jury, actuated by motives of malice or revenge, and swetar to what he pleases, with no fear of perjury, or its detection staring him in the face; no fear of being called to account for his false oaths, or his revengeful, malicious accusations. I regard it as an inexcusable, andhardly tolerable excresence upon the system of American jurisprudence. With all respect for the legal opinion of the learned gentleman from St. Clair [Mr. Underwood], I must beg leave to differ from him in one of his statements. I deny that grand juries, as a common thing, are first instrumenltal in discovering crime and causing the arrest of crimiinals. They rarely take the initiative, but act at second hand on parties alreadv arrested, bound over, or imprisoned for alleged offenses of the graver character. In petty matters, and in trumiblped-up and malicious charges they generally take the lead, I freely concede. Where a man has violated the criminal statutes, has committed a felony, or serious offense, has committed murder in any degree, the grand jury does not, in the first instance, discover the crime or cause the arrest of the criminal, except in rare and exceptional instances The offender is arrested, in nine hundred and ninetynine times out of a thousand, by the constabulary, by the police, by justices of the peace. by the common people. The parties, whom the grand jury first fastens suspicions of guilt upon, are those who do not seek to escape, or do not feel guilty of any crime. It is the class of people who are guilty of mere venial offenses, or of petty offenses, constructive of fenses, that are nosed out and indicted by your great and costly grand jury iLquisitors. The grand jury may be useful to indict as a nuisance a dead cat or pit on the highway, to chase downl those who vend beer or other stimulants, who violate sumptuary laws, or look across their neighbor's fences on Sunday, but for preserving the peace over your broachers (of criminlal lawvi, for first discovering authors of felonies, all experience shows it to be useless lumber arid surplusage in the legal machinery, which can safely and properly be rescinded. As my colleague from Cook [Mr. Anthony] well said, ".an indictment of a citizen, whether he triumphanltlyr prove his innocence before twelve men or cast, is a stigma fastened upon him that will follow himt to his grave." We knowf that is tr ue, ahl of us. Wphere is the man, among our acquain~tance, who lhas be n indicted by one of these dark star-chamber inquisitions, and acquitted afterwards of the offoust charged against him, who has not been injured by its It is proven by the experience of two States of this Union, that grand juries may be dispensed with. One of them is the " Land of Steaay Habits,"' where the people go as deeply anid critically into questions affecting the rights of citizens READING OF THE JOURNAL. The Secretary proceeded to read the journal of yesterday's proceedings, when Mr. VANDEVENTER. I move to dispense with the further reading of the journal. The motion was agreed to. JUDICIAL DEPARTMENT. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The unfinished business of yesterday is in order. The Secretary read the amendment offered by Mr. Dement, as follows: ABOLISH]ALENT OF GRAND JURIES. Insert in section twelve, third line, after the word "county," the following: "And no grand jury shall be impanneled in circuit courts, but offenses shall be prosecuted therein in such manner as may be provided by law." Mr. SEDGWICK. Mr. President: I move that the amendment proposed by the gentleman from Lee [Mqr. Dement] be committed to the Committee on the Bill of Rights, with instructions to report back a clause in the article on BiLl of Rights, providing that the General Assetmbly may modify or abolish the present grand jury system whenever they provide a substitute for the same. One reason why I make this proposition is, because whatever modification or new system the Legislature might provide to take the place of the present grand jury system, would be, perhaps, only an experiment in part: and if it should not work well, then the General Assembly might, at any time, return to the present grand jury system, if it suited the people better than a modification or a new system. I think it would be better to leave it in this way with the Legislature, so that the people, if they desire or demand this chai.ge, may ilstruct their represent atives when electing them to the General Assembly, upon this subject. I have no doubt, sir, but- what a majority of the thinking people of our State SEVENTY-EIGHTH DAY. SATURDAY, April 23, 1870. The Convention met at nine o'clock A. M., and was called to order by the President, pro tempore (Mlr. Anthony.) PRA.YER. Prayer was offered by the Rev. Mr. 3Miller, of Springfield, as follows: AP.UIL 22) 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1439 -1 1440 CONSTITUTIONAL CONVIXTIO SATURDAY, er have the amendment referred to a comli nt mittee-and I do not care whether it is ta the Committee on the Bill of Rights or ne the Judiciary Ccompumittee, oentl w he ortw omoi of Btitteik it be referred I say aga in tha t I ty have no spe cial objetionot s to havi ng it cal referred for cowisideratiom, without any h instructions. As I understa nd the genSd tAiean's proposition, the committee would he be bound by these ins truction s to re port sta certain thing and in a certain way. I de hope the gentleman will ther efore modify his motion so as to make itsimply a que sal tion of referrinDg it to a committee for et consideration and to report. ao Le t me sliay, while, I am up, th at this is in a mattdeer o f ver y grave importance, and it st becomes more grave, in view of the fact he that it affects, personallo, the interests of geea great many of the membe rs o f th is Conth vertion. I speak a s a lawyer upon the ot'subject, and therefore can speak freely. If i were to consult my own interests, I ti should re tain the grand jury system, orl te the very moment a man is ind icted, he must employ a lawyer, and I thein k it will r be a lcoss to w e of several hundred dollars afmat every term- of c ourt, if the grand jury insystem should be abolished. My forte a of as been, if I have any, in quashere in dictS. ercts. It is a sort of specialty, out ahiof which I have made money —and I nathink a great many other lawyers can say ~d the same thiinogso thtif I were to con s-suit my own private interests, I should Ssnot des i re the grand jury system abwllislewi aed, but I do th ink the people require it, and I hope te a hagentler.an will modifty ~-his motion, so as to simply make it a mo tion to refer. Mr. ALLEN, of Crawford. Mr. Presid ent: I am in f avor of the motion t o re fer, and I am in favor also of the propo siti on to refer with instructions. I con cur with the gentleman from Deylalb Cu[Mr. Sedgwick],i thei psis is a matter of grave importance,atuat thist tha will be p ain ex, peris ntbeo u at pos aleast, and I am therefore .hl iposed to engracuiong t iu p nt o the nwe oConstitution. n No)w, I am perfectly willing, if it shall obe the sense of the Legislature, to abol dish grand juries, that they shall have power to try the experiment, If the ex. e perimerit pr-oves satisfactory to the people o,uof the State, the y ca n continue it. If it lie safety may require it. -~~ - it; however,'ithislthoot litvadvisablectorhv hy, haeti therean wl be SEC. 9. No person shall be held to answ for a criminal offense, unless on an iindictme of a grand jury, except in cases of petit Ili ceny and ofernses less than felony, in whii the punishment is by fine and imprisonm eJ or otrwi,e than in the penitentiary, in cases impeachment, and in eases arising in the arpt and navy, or in the militia when in actu service in time of war or public danger. SEC. 10. In all criminal prosecutions thu accused shall be allowed to appear and defer in person and with counsel; to demand th nature and cause of the accusation again him, and to have a copy thereof; to ineet th witnesses face to faice, and to have compu soiry process to procure the attendance of wi niesse~s in his bet,alf, and a speedy public trii by an impartial jury of the county or distric in which the offense is alleged to have bee committed.I Sac. 13. No person shall be compelled any criminal case to give evidence aga in himselfs or be twice put in je opa r dy for tt samie offen,se. SEC. 12. All penalties shall be proportio ed to the nature of the offense,r the trie d sCgn of a ll punishment being to rfsefio, no to to exterminate mankind. SEC. 13. No conviction shall work e orru tio~n of' blood or forfeiture of estate; nor sha any person be t r a n sported out of this Stah ARrIC Iny owffense commit w ith in the sa meo S EC. 14. N o person shall be imprisoned i~ debt, unless upon refusal to deliver up estate 1or tAe e b enefit on his creditors, in suh main ner as shall be prescribed by law, or i cases where there is str ong presumption riaud. SEC. 15. Private property shall not be ts ken or damaged fi)r public use without jus compensat~ion. Such compensation, wire not made by the State, shall be ascertaine by a jury, or by not less than three commis signer's, appointed by a court of ree(.,id,a ,shall be prev,scribe-d by law. The fee of ]an taken for railroad t,'acks, without consent~ the owners thereof, stiaml remain in sue owners, subjct[ to the use for which it is ta ken. SEC. 16. The General Assembly shall no pa.-s any ex post fac-to law, or law im-npairint the obligation of contracts,'nor make an irrevocable grant of special privileges or in mijnities. SEc. 17. The military shall be in strict sub oralina,,ion to the civil power. SEC. 18. No soldier shall, in time of peace be quartered in any house,, without the con sent,)f tt e owner; nor in time of war, excee in the mauiifr pr-escribied by law. SE~C.'19. The people have thie right to as s-em ble t,'gether in a peaceable myanner, t( consult for- th-e commlon good, to make knowr thjeir opinions to their representatives, and t( apply for redress of grievances. Sj.c. 20. All elections shall be free ant equal. SEC. 21. Every person within this Stat( oughlt to find a certain remedy in the laws for all injuries or wron'sD, which he may re BILL OF RIGHTS. Mr. ALLEN, of Alexander. Mr. Presi denit: Will the, gentleman yield a mo meot in order to give me ai opportunity to offer a report? The regular order of busin,.ess has nut been called this morn ing. Myr. TURNER. Certainly. Mr. ALLEN, of Alexaader. Mr. Presi del-t: I desire to mfake a report from the Com-imittee on the Bill of Rights. It is not important perhaps to read it, but I move that it be laid on te mtable, printed, and made the special order for Thursday next. Tioh e motion was agreed to' [Te ie report is das wollows]. ARTICLE III. B~ILL OF RIGHTS. SECTIO~N 1. All men are bv nature free,,and independent, and have certain inherent ald inalien. able rights; among these a re li mt, lib erty and the pursuit. of happiness. To secure these rights and the protection of property, governments are instituted amiong, men, de riving their just powers from the consent of the governed. Sac. 2. No person shall be deprived oflia fec, libe rty or property without due proc ess t ao law.. SFEC. 3. The free exercise and enjoyment of religi ous prof es s ions and worship, without discrimination, shall forever be allowed in this State; and no prierson shall be denied aomay civil or political r ight is, privileg e or capacity on account of his religious opinfons; but the liberty of conscience ht-r-ebv secured shall not be so' costrued as to dispense with oaths or affirmations, excuse acts of licentiousness, or justify practices inconsistent with the peace, and safety of the State. S-.c. 4. No person shall be, compelled to attend or suipport any ministry or place of woriship against his consent, nor shall any preference be given by law to any religious denom-ination or mode of worship. SEC. 5 Ever y person may freely speak, write and publish his se-ntiments on all subjects, being responsible for the abuse of that liberty, and in all trials for libel, both civil and criminal, th-e truth when publis~hed with good motives and for justifiable ends, shall be s~ufficient de~fense to the person charged. SE(',. 6. The. right of trial by jutry, as heretofore enjoyed, shall remdain inviolate; but th Gee,a A....u y my anthorize the trial of civil cases bef'ore justices of the peace by a ,Jury of less than twel1ve men. SF,c. 7. The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers and effects ag-ainst unreasonable searches and seizures, Shfall not be violated; and no warrant] ,hall issue without probable cause, supported )y oath or affirmation particularly describing t~he place to be searched and the person or things to be seized. 1440 CONSTIT'UTIONAL CONYENTION SATURDAY) API 3 80 EAE - RCEIG.14 Mr. RICE. Then, Mr. President, the gentlemen who desire to abolish the grand jury, should furnish us with the assurance that they will employ some other agency by which charges are to be preferred, that will be above base in fluences, or above the possibility of mis take-that they will not prefer grave charges against men who ought not to be put upon trial. Sir, the very object of the institution of the grand jury is to protect innocent men (as well as to prefer charges or indictments) against ill-found ed charges, to be preferred by vindictive and violent individuals, actuated by a vindictive spirit. Mr. UNDERWOOD. Are not a great many cases presented by justices of the peace ignored by the grand jury, and thus the party not put to the expense of a trial? Mr. RICE. It is a matter within the experience of every lawyer, that in many of the investigations had before justices of the peace, where recognizances are taken or commitments are made and re turned to the circuit clerk's office, the bills are ignored as being frivolous and with out foundation. If it is said that these justices of the peace may as well make the investiga tion and furnish the charge upon which the accused is to be tried, I answer that it is notorious that there are many jus tices of the peace all over this country who cannot define a legal offense so that it can be tried. I recollect the substance of a charge returned to the circuit court, in which it was said the offense was for "breaking down a fence, digging up a potato patch, by several persons," and then added by way of supplement "they stole a turkey." I would like to know how, when a justice of the peace returns such a charge as that, one can plead "not guilty," call a jury, and know what is to be tried. I recite that as an illustration of the blunders in defining legal offenses, that are constantly occurling in magis trates' courts, and unless we can improve the system of magistracy, I cannot favor the idea of bringing men to trial on grave charges that involve life and liber ty, preferred by the body of magistrates we now have. It is dangerous for this Convention to adopt measures too radical, that are not demanded by the people. We have an act passed by the Legislature of this State, that makes parties their own witnesses in civil actions, thereby offering a premium upon perjury. We have gone a step further, and we have practically abolished capital punishment, having provided that no man shall be sentenced to capital punishment unless the jury shall so find in the verdict. The result of this is, that we find mobs are springing up all over the country, in some parts, at least, as the legitimate fruits of such a law. When the public sense of justice is outraged, when the people feel that a mani is so deep dyed in crime that he is unfit to be longer a member of society, and that he ought to pay the penalty of his crimes by the forfeiture of his life, they, knowing that his life would not be forfeited by law, take the law into their own hands. Shall we go a step further, and sweep away all the ancient landmarks of our criminal jurisprudence, and those buligwarks of security, of life and liberty, and * that, too, without any popular demand I DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. APP.IL 231 1870. 1441 in the future, in charges cf the most grave offenses, a useful institution. I hope, therefore, that the resolution of the gentleman from DeKalb [Mr. Sedg wick] will be adopted, that this subject may be referred to the Committee on Bill of Rights, where it properly belongs, that some provisions may be reported by which the General Assembly may relieve us from the burden of grand jury inves ti-ations of misdemeanors, or that it may recommend a proposition which may en able the Legislature to try the experi. ment of abolishing the grand jury in every grade of offense. My judgment is, that in the future, if we do abolish it, we will find that the great mass of our people will in time desire to return to it. Mr. RICE. Alr. President: I concur in the remarks that have been made pro nouncing this one of the most important questions that has been presented to this Convention dUriDg its session, and that it ought -not to be disposed of hastily. I was somewhat surprised last evening at the zealous tone in which abolition of the grand jury was advocated by many learned gentlemen on this floor. I shall not advocate the motion to refer. It is immaterial t-) me what form is employed to secure the result. This is a question to which the atten: tion of the people has not been called. I venture to say that there has been no popular demadd for the abolition of the grand jury by this Convention, although there are individuals, perhaps, in every portion of the State who believe it would be better to abolish it. The chief argument for the abolition of the grand jury is'.hat it is a secret body, and that character has suffered from charges preferred upon an ex parte hearing. If we abolish the grand jury, have we not got to impose the duty as well as the power upon some other agents of the law to present charges upon which criminals are to be tried? Have we any security if we make it the duty of the prosecuting attorney or of any constituted body of men, other than a grand jury, that they, too, will not prefer charges ill-grounded, that will attach as much stigma as a charge preferred by a grand j ury? Mr. VANDEVENTER. Mr. President - I ask the Convention to pause, and not to make hot haste to inaugurate and con summate too suddenly and speedily a revolution that will wipe out, all the most valuable part of the crimijna'L law, that the wisdom of our own nation, and of our British ancestors, has sanctioned for ages, and leave us to be guided by an occa siodal experiment in Connecticut, or some other State. Mr. SNYDER. England. Mr. RICE. The gentleman from St. Clair [Mr. Snyder] answers "EDgland." I do not know that we are bound to follow every new and modern experiment, if the history of the past has furnished safety and afforded ample agencies for a just administration. of the criminal law. It is not every change that is an improve ment; change is not always progress, and my judgment is that if this effort to abol ish tke grand jury in this State, by this Convention, succeeds, it will be a retro grade movement. It sometimes takes more courage than many men possess, to indict and bridg to justice a man of wealth and of activity, who has a large class of retainers at h,,s heels. A private citizen without influence, will not willingly engage in a contest so unequal. The result will be that people will be prosecuted whenever they cross the track of a man whose malilnitv they excite, while the bold, the dangerous and the wealthy will often be allowed to go free and unwhipped of justice. Mr. GOODHUE. Mr. President: I do Dot propose to occupy the attention of the Convention at any length, nor do I propose to discuss the merits of the main question. It seems to me that, the members of this Convention are not prepared at this time to act upon this question of abolishing the grand jury. While I am ready, as a, general thing, to vote without any cosultation whatever with my constituents: in relation to most of the questions that come before this body, I should, upon this question, have very serious objection to, VOtiDg upon it, one way or the other, without more full and accurate information as to the wishes'and judgment of my constituents than I at present possess. I recognize the force and validity of many of the arguments that have ]-.)een made acainst the grand jury system. I 144 cl-TTTOA COY~iNSRaY and if the people's representatives want to abolish the present system, let them do it. If the experiment does not work well, they can re-establish the system. I do not know of any great crimes that the grand jury in my county have committed. Mr. BUXTON. Do they not expend about fifteen thousand dollars of the people's money? Mr. TINCHER. I do not know how much money they have expended, but I know they have sent many bad men to the penitentiary-they have found the indictments, at least. Mr. BUXTON. Did not the State's Attorney draw the indictments? Mr. TINCHER. Yes. We have a good - State's Attorney, and when he gets up an indictment it sticks-it is not quashed. I have never been indicted by a grand jury, and consequently I have no dislike to them. I do not say that every one who dislikes the grand jury system has been indicted. [Laughter]. I think it has brought many bad, vicious men to justice, when no single individual would have felt disposed to arraign those men fo)r fear of their burning their property or doing personal violence. Many good things have grown out of the grand jury system; but I want it distinctly understood that I am not here advocating holding on to the old system. While it may have served its day and purpose, I am fully satisfied that the people are competent, after the adjournment of this Convention, to say whether they want to prohibit that system or perpetuate it, and if I either have to vote for the perpetuation of it or to abolish it, I should certainly vote to dispense with it. I am glad to know that I am not compelled to vote either way, but that we can leave the question open for the people to decide for themselves, for that is what we ought to do. There is one thing about the proposition I like —the fierce way in which some of the legal gentlemen fight the grand jury system. it does look to me like a little progress in the way of reform-law reform-and now if these gentlemen who are so ready to wipe out the grand jury system will stand by me, we will make a law reform here that will relieve the peop le from these wrongs and oppressions, and expenses. Mr. President, I want it understood that I am for placing no prohibition in the Constitution upon this subject. Let us leave it to the will of the people, and let it be put into the Bill of Rights, or whatever may be the appropriate place for it, so that the Legislature can at any time act upon the question; and if they repeal the present grand jury system, and after having tried the experiment find that it does not work well, they can reestablish it. The representatives of the people are competent to do that. bMr. WAGNER. Mr. President: I move the previous question. Mr. TURNER. Mr. President: I hope Mthat before that is moved, the gentleman from DeKalb [Mr. Sedgwick] will have an opportunity to modify his motion, as has been suggested, if he desires to do so. Mr. DEMENT. Mr. President: I would ask the gentleman fror Carroll [Mr. Wagner] if he would not please to allow me to make a little explaLation. Mr. WAGNER. The gentleman from temr, we are without anything to take its place-without any mode whatever by which an ind ictm ent can be fou nd agai nst any man or against any set of men in this State. We arc then left at the mercy of circumstances-at the mercy of vagabonds and scoundrels throughout the State. We have not one single inch of standing ground, upon which we may fight this class of men. I say again, without fear of contradiction, that if we are ready at one blow to strike down the grand! jury system, we trust pause and adopt the machinery, which is necessary for the purpose of bringing men to trial for crimes of which they may be guilty, or of which they may be supposed guiltoy. I am, therefore, in favor of the sugges. tion of the gentleman from DeKalb [,ir. Sedgwick]. One more suggestion. There are, as I have said, arguments, and very strong ones, against the grand jury system. And this is a matter of the first importance. It is one to which my attention has never been specially called, except in connection with my practice. The change, at this time, it seems to me, would be violent. It would be made without sufficient knowledge of the inclination and wishes of the people of the State, and I submit that, while this Convention is made up principally of lawyers, as has been stated, the lawyers may not represent the wishes of the people on this subject. We ought to hesitate, in relation to these matters, and deliberate sufficiently to bring before our minds all the facts necessary to act wisely. Again, Mr. President, the arguments that have been made against the grand jury, in my judgment, will hold good against anything that may be suggested iD its place. Every argument presented against the grand jury, could be presented against any machinery that can be adopted to take its place. Until geitlemen can devise some method to bring new activity, to enforce the law, and secure the aid of those men who are absolutely infallible and beyond the reach of mistake, the arguments presented against the grand jury can be easily made against anything that might be substituted for it. We might bring arguments against the petit jury. We might select isolated cases where innocent men have been bereft of their lives by the decis~ion of a petit jury. In almost every circuit, gentlemen may point to mlistakes, and even outrages, by petit juries; yet, can they point to these violations of law, and say that they see any good and substantial reason for abolishing the petit juryr, even if they could do so? These considerations are to be regarded. Even if we have the constitutional right to do so, we should at any rate, pause for the purpose of consulting our constituents, before we strike down the very safeguards which have been recognized for centuries in the preservation of the lives and of the liberties of the people, and of each and every inldividual1 perhaps in the State. MIr. TINC:iIER. Mr. President: I am inclined to support the motion to refer the amendment to the Comm~ittee on Bill of Rights, with instructions. I would not place a prohibition on the people on this subject. One objectionable feature of all our work has been the restrictions on the people. Iwould have the Conlstitution silent on the subject Off grand juries, Allen of Cr Pkd, Hay, Anderson, King, Anthony, McCoy, Bowman, Moore, Cross, Neee, Ellis, Parker, Fuller, Parks, Goodhue, Perley, Haines of Cook,Peirce, NAYS. Abbott, Cummings, Allen ofAlx'n, Dement, Bayne, Fprman, Benjamin, Fox, Bromwell, Hankins Browning, Hart, Buxton, Harwood, Cameron, Hayes, Cary, I/ildrup, Church, Merriam, Cody, Poage, Craig, Rice, Goodell, Skinn er, Haines of L'k.,Springer, Hanna, Truesdale, McDowell, Washburn, Medill, Wendling, Pillsbury, Wilson, Ross, Mr. President-22. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION SATUP.DAY, 1412 Lee rMr. Dement] can have still another opportunity to discuss this question after the committee makes its report, if this matter should be committed to them. The motion for the previous question was agreed to, and the main question ordered. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The question is now upon the motion of the gentleman from DeKalb [Mr. Sedgwickl, to refer the proposition of the gentleman from Lee [Air. Dement] with iustructions. Mr. TURNER. Mr. President: I ask that the question be divided, and that the question be first taken on the motion to refer. Mr. DEMENT. Mr. President: I call for the readii3g of the proposition of the gentleman from DeKalb [Mr. Sedgwick]. The Secretary read from thejournal of yesterday, as follows: Mr. Sedgwick moved that the amendment offered by the gentleman from Lee [Mr. De-en" be committed to Committee on Bill of Ri ght., wit;-t instructions to report back a clause in the article on bill of rights, provid!D- that the General Assembly may modify or abolish the present grand jury system, whenever they shall provide a substitute for the same. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The qiestion is upon the motion to refer the matter to the Committee on, the Bill of Rights. The motion was agreed to. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore,.. The question is now upon the instructions accompa-nyi,i3g the motion to refer. Mr. DEMENT. Mr. President: Would it be in order to move to lay the balance of the proposition upon the 'table? The PRESIDENT, pro teinpore. The Chair is of opinion that it would not. The yeas and nays were ordered, and being taken, resulted-yeas 26, nays 35as follows: YEA.S. Beholfidl.d, Sedgwick, Sherrill, Tincher, Tubbs, Wagner, w al t, Wall-26. Robinson, Ross, Snyder, Sutherland, Turner, Underwood, V..deventer, Wells, Wheaton Whiting, Wright-35. ABSENT, OR NOT VOTING. Archer, Atkins, Brown, Bryan, Coolbaugh, Eldredge, English, Ganible, So the motion of Mr. Sedgwick, instructing the Committee on Bill of Ri,ghts with reference to the section offered by Mr. Dement, regardidg abolishment of grand'' as not agreed to. juries, API 3170 _EAE ADPOEDIG.14 in Convention in discussing it, when, having been reached a second time, it was found again to be inconvenient, and to require additional amendments. It seems to me impossible to shape this great lumbering section, with all its restrictions, with all its clauses of special legislation, and all its provisions to hamper and embarrass the people of the central part of the State, so as to meet the views of the people in that part of the State. Let me appeal to the gentlemen from the southern part of the State. They say they have a county court with increased jurisdiction in their part of the State, and that will diminish business in the circuit courts, so that they will do. We are not compelled to take county courts with increased jurisdiction in our part of the State. Why will you force upon us that alternative, or compel us to do without circuit courts? If you do not want circuit courts to do the business in your part of the country, you ought not to compel us to do without them. This substitute has another advantage. The section is long. It will require a great deal of construction, and will be su b jec t to different constructions. The Legislature will inevitably make as many circuits as they can under this, and probably increase the number of judges in the State, perhaps, in the wrong place. If they are entirely free to form as many or as few circuits as they please, I apprehend they can be trusted to do so. If our Legislature cannot be trusted to form circuit courts, I think it is time that the Legislature were abolished. For my part, I believe they have the capacity. The remarks of the gentleman from Sang mon [Mr. Hay] yesterday on this question, seemed to express my views exactly. I believe that a Legislature, chosen directly from the people, at frequently recurring intervals, are entirely competent to form judicial circuits, for the establishment of courts therein. If they are not, in the name of God, what are they fit for? Mr. CARY. We have been over this question so many times that I move to lay the substitute of the gent eman from Peoria [Mr. Wells] on the table. The Secretary read the substitute offered by Mr. Wells, as follows: The State shall be divided into judicial districts, to be formed by contiguous counties. The yeas and nays were ordered, and, bei ng taken, resulted-yeas 39; nays 16 -as follows: ABSENT, OR NOT VOTING. Archer, King, Sedgwick, Atkins, McDowell, Skinner, Brown, Medill, Springer, Bryan, Parks, Tinchber, Buxton, Perley, Truesdale, Coolbaugh, Peirce, Washburn, El dredge, Pills blury, Wendling, Englishe E, P oage, Wilson, Haines ofLake,Ross, Mr. President-28. Hanna, So the motion of Mr. Cary, to lay the substitute offered by Mr. Wells on the table, was agreed to. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The question is upon the amendment of the gentleman from Perry [Mr. Wall]. The Secretary will read the amendment and also the section to which the amendment is proposed. The Secretary read section thirteen and the amendment offered by Mr. Wall there. to, as follows: SEc. 13. The State shall (exclusive of the county of Cook), before the expiration oft.he terms of office of the present judges of the circuit courts, be divided into judicial circuits not more than one circuit for every one hundred thousand inhabitants of the State; and for each of which one judge shall be elected by the electors thereof. The judicial divisions and judicial circuits shall be formed of contiguous counties, in as nearly compact form as circumstances will permit. New circllits may be formed, and the boundaries of circuits and divisions changed by the General Assembly at its session next preceding the election of the judges of the circuits or divtsions sought to be changed, but at no other time: Provided, That the circuits may be equalized or changed at the first session of the General Assembly after the adoption of this Constitution. The creation, alteration, or change of any judicial division ( r judicial circuit shall not affect the tenure of office of any judge. [Amendment offered by Mr. Wall]. When additional circuits are created, the foregoing limitations shall be observed. M1r. WALL. Mr. President: I understood, upon yesterday, an aimendment to that section was adopted, which has not been read by the Secretary, that the circuits should be made as near equal as may be, having due regard to business, territory and population. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The Secretary will refer to the journal. It is the recollection of the Chair that the words referred to by the gentleman from Perry [Mr. Wall], "having due regard to business, territory, and popula. tion," are adopted. The Secretary read from the journal of yesterday, as follows: S:EC. 13. The State (exclusive of the countyr of C~ook) shaill, before the expiration of the terms of office of the present juldges of the circuit courts, be divided into judicial circuits, not more than one circuit for every 100,000 inhabitants of the State; and for each of which one judge shall be elected by the electors thereof. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. After the word "circuit," in the second line, insert —"having due regard to business) territory and population." Mr. WTALL. Mr. President: After the word "State,}' the words should be inserted. The PRESIDENT, Jpro tempore. A fter the word "State;" —well. The Secretary proceeded to read the section, when — Mr. McCOY. Mr. President: What section are we now on? The PRESIDENT, pro tempor6. Sectionl thirteen. Mir. McCOY. Mir. President: I move to amend kby striking lout of line four the words-'and j udicial circuits. The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The questio n now recurs upon t he ad option of section twelve. The Secretary read sect ion twelve, as follows: SEC. 12. The circuit courts shall have orig inal jurisdiction of all caus es in la w an d equity. and suc h appellate jurisdiction as is or may be provided by law, a nd s hall h old tw o or mor e terms each vear in every county. The terms of office of judges of circuit courts shall be six years, and the present judges shall hold their offices until otherwise provided bv law. The PRESIDENT pro tempore. If there are no further amendments, that section will be considered adopted. The Secretery read section thirteen, as follows: SsC. 13. The S tat e shall, before the expirat io n of the term s of offic ohe of the present judges of the circuit courts, be divided into judicial circuits, not more than one circuit for every one hundred thousand inhabitants of the State; and for each of which one judge shall be elected by the electors thereof. The judicial divisions and judicial circuits shall be formed of contiguous counties, in as nearly compact form as circumstances will permit. New circuits may be formed, and the boundaries of circuits and divisions changed by the -General Assembly, at its sessions next preceding the election of the judges of the circuits or divisions sought to be changed, but at no other time: Provided, that the circuits may be equalized or changed at the first session of the General Assembly after the adoption of this Constitution. The creation, alteration or change of any judicial division or judicial circuit shall not affect the tenure of office of any judge. Mr. WALL. In this section we have provided certain limitations as to the manner in which the Legislature shall act in the first formation of the circuits under the Constitution. ~We have provided that before the expiration of the terms of the present judges, the State shall be divided into circuits, under these limitations. We then provide that new circuits may thereafter be formed, and that such new circuits shall not be created except at the session next preceding the election of new judges. The limitations we have fixed as to the manner in which the circuits shall be created during the term of the present judges, do not seem to be applicable and mandatory when we come to create the new circuits at a subsequent time; and for the purpose of remedying what thus appears to be an omsission, I desire to offer this amendment, to be added at the end of the section, viz: When additional circuits are created, the foregoing limitation shall be observed. So that in all time the same limitation shall be regarded. The Secretary read the amendment ofre: ed by Mr. Wall, as follows: Add to the end of the section the following words: "iWhen additional circulits are created the foregoing l-imitations shall be observed." Mr. WELLS. Mr. President: I offer the following as a substitute for the entire section: The Secretary read the substitute offered by Mr. Wells, as follows: The State shall be divided into judicial cirCUitB to be formed by contiguous counties. Mr. WELLS. Mr. President: We have spent considerable time in C~ommittee of the Whole in attempting to patch up section thirteen. It passed ill a fo~rm distasteful to a very large minority of the members on this floor. We spent a large amount of ting Abbott, Cummings, Hildrup, Allen of Alx'n,Dement, Neece, Allen of Cwfd,Ellis, Rice, Anderson, Forman, Robinson, Bowman, Fox, Scholfield, Bromwell, Fuller, Sharp, Browning, Goodell, Sherrill, Cameron, Haines ofCook,Snyder, Cary, Hankins, Sutherland, Chui cel, Hart, Tubbs, Cody, Harwood, Wagner, Craig, Hay, Wall, Cross, Hayes, Wright-39. APP.IL 23, 1870. DEBATE.8 AND PROCEEDINGS. 1443 YEAS. WAYS. Anthony, Bayne, Benjamin, Gamble, Goodhue, McCoy, Merriam, Moore, Parker, Turner, Underwood, Va,ndeventer, wait, Wells, Wheaton, Wliiting-16. 1444 COSTITUITIOAL COYETIO SATURDAY, It will be obvious to any member of this Convention, that the language clearly excludes Cook county in the general arti c les of this Constitution. We have pro vided in the latter part of the judicial article the sixteen sections exclusively for Cook county. Those I do not wish to interfere with or change in any way, so they are acceptable to the delegation from Cook county; but I do desire to so amend section thirteen as to enable other coun ties having the requisite number of in habitants, to enjoy all the privileges we extend to the county of Cook. We ought to so frame the organic law that any county (having the number of inhabitants that Cook county had when this court system was given her) may enjoy the same by legislative enactment. We are forming a fundamental law that, if adopted by the people, we hope will endure for a long series of years. We bave large and flourishing counties in this State, and there is no exact knowledge lbut that there are counties now that require courts, similar to what Cook county has. I see no good reason in the world why we should not, in the general provision, include any county having the requisite number of inhabitants. Then it would be general in its application; now it is special. Mr. HAYES. I suggest to the gentle. man, that it would be very troublesome to reconsider the amendment, and he can accomplish his object by moving to strike out and insert. The amendment was to strike out. That amendment was voted down. He can now move to strike out and insert other words. As far as I am concerned, I have no objection to what the gentleman pro poses; but we have named Cook county in a dozen other sections, and I see no reason why we should not in this. Mr. CUMMINGS. It is not'the name of Cook county in this article that I object t). It is that the Legislature may have the power to give other counties that may have the requisite number of individuals, the same privileges that Cook county bas. Mr. CAMERON. I would ask the gentleman what other counties in this State he has reference. to, which have the requisite number of inhabitants-one hundred thousand-and whose interests need the protection he seeks to afford? iMr. CUMMINGS. Adams. Mr. CAMERON. Adams has a population of fifty-one thousand by the returns of the last census. Mr. CUMMINGS. There are various counties. Peoria county is a large and flourishing county; and my own county. Mr. CAMERON. One hundred thousand? ilMr. CUMMINGS. I do not say they have one hundred thousand. Mr. WHEATON. They will have in ten years. Mr. CUMMINGS. They will have in less than half that timae. ewMr. CAMERON. I will call the atten tion of the gentleman to another fact- q that this section has reference to the present circuits and the present judges. These judges were elected two years ago, and have two years yet to serve; consequently no county can be affected by the proposed amendment, unless it has a population of over one hundred thousand within the next four years. If there is any county that is likely to. Mr. ALLEN, of Crawford. Mr. President: I rise to a question of order. It is only in order to move to amend the pending amendment-not the section. Mr. McCOY. Mr. President: I do not know that this comes within the pending amendment, but I wish to state what I desire. I have mo objection to judicial divisions being made of contiguous counties in as nearly compact form as circumstances will permit, but I do not think that will apply properly to judicial circuits. It will frequently occur that circuits will better accommodate the people, if a little outside of compact form. I do not be lieve the causes in court would be any better tried, by reason of this kind of symmetry that is attempted to be fixed in the Constitution; but that they would be equally as well tried, if the circuit should be of a triangular or oblong form. Hence, at the proper time, I will move to strike out "and judicial circuits," and leave it to the Legislature to form judicial circuits that wili accommodate the people, without this symmetry-as though a square or right-angle, and so on, could give better accommodation in the trial of a cause. The question being on the amendment offered by Mr. Wall, it was agreed to. Mr. McCOY. Mr. President: I now move to amend section thirteen by striking out "and judicial circuits." The motion was not agreed to. Mr. FOX. Mr. President: I would like to hear section twelve read, to see if there is not a discrepancy between it and section thirteen, which would require amendment. The PRESIDENT pro tempore. Section twelve has been passed, and can only be considered by moving a reconsideration. Mr. FOX. I do not wish, Mr. Presi dent, to amend section twelve, but the information that I may get from the reading of that clause may induce me to amend section thirteen. The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The Secretary will read. The Secretary read the last clause of section twelve, as follows: have th at population, the amendment may accomplish some good; but otherwise it will not. Mr. CUMMINGS. Mr. President: I have no doubt that there will be a num ber of counties, before these judicial cir cuits are changed, that will have 100,000 inhabitants, and I propose, in this amend ment, that we accord this to any and all these counties that may desire it, and if they do not have that population, this will do no harm. On the suggestion of the gen tleman from Cook [Mr. Hayes] I move to strike out the words "exclusive of Cook county," and insert "exclusive cf any county having 100,000 or more inhabit ants." The PRESIDENT pro temipore. The Chair is of opinion that the point cannot be regularly reached without a motion to reconsider, as the amendment was not created in Committee of the Whole; but by consent of the Convention, the Chair will put the motion to strike out. Mr. PARKS. Mr. President: I wish to say aboat this amendment of the gen tleman from Fulton [Mr. Cummings], that I hope it will not prevail. I hope so for two reasons. One is that the dele gates from Cook county do not seem to desire it. They seem to prefer the sec tion as it is. The other is that whatever may be the language of that section, we all know what it means, and I am for presenting it to the people of this State just as it does mean. If we are going to adopt two different rules for different counties in this Scate, if we are going to say that in any one county forty or fifty thousand people shall be entitled to a judge, let us say so in plain English, and name the county, and if we are going to say that in all the balance of the State it shall require one hundred thousand for a judge, let us say that in plain English, and go before the people upon the merits of that proposi tion. I do not know, sir, how the people will look at that. We have had the subject before us for a long time, considered it very deliberately, and I think we are prepared to decide it. I am for retaining these words, "except the county of Cook." I do not know how the people will look at it. They may, and I thinkvery likely they will, in three or four circuits con taining about as many people as Coolk county, look upon that restriction of one hundred thousand as an injury, and when they come to compare the provision miade for them with that part of the Constitution which allows Cook county a judge for forty or fifty thousand inhabitants, I think they will regard that as adding insult to injury. However that may be, I am for expressing what we put in the Constitultion, clearly and distinctly; and if it be right, let the article be adopted, and if it be wrong, let it be rejected. I want to go before the people upon this question on ifs merits, and to, on its merits, let it stand or fall. The PRESIDENT, p}ro tempore. The question is upon the motion of the gentleman fr-om Fulton [Mr. Cummings] to strike out the words "exclusive of Cook county," and insert the following: Except all counties] having, one hundred thousand inhabitants. A division was ordered. The Convention divided, when, there . being fourteen in the affrmative and Th e te r m s of office of judges of circui t courts shall be six years, and the present judges shall hold their offices until otherwise provided by law. Mr. FOX. Mr. President: The objection that I have to this section is this. In my opinion, there will not be more than twenty-one or twenty-two circuits in the State under a districting of the kind proposed by any section in this article, and we have provided for twenty-nine circuit judges. I therefore wish to amend section thirteen, that there may be no conflict in the two sections. I will prepare an amendment. Will not striking out the word "before" and inserting "after," accomplish the object I seek? Mr. ALLEN, of Crawford. Mr. President: If the gentleman will reflect a moment, he will see that that will not do. We would have an interim during whi6h we would have no circuits or any judges at all. Mr. CUMMINGS. Mr. President: I move to reconsider the vote by which the words "exclusive of Cook county," were inserted in section thirteen, and move to insert the following: "exclusive of any county having one hundred thousand or more inhabitants."..s CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION SATUP-DAYI 144;4 APRIL 3, 18O. DEBATES AKD POCEEDIGS. 1445 tion, city courts can be provided, which will give all the relief required. Mr. WELLS. Mr. President: I move to amend the amendment by substituting 75,000 for 100,000. It is true, sir, that there is no county in the Srate containing, at the present time, 100,000 inhabitants, except Cook; but in a very few years there will be many with at least 75,000. La Salle, Adams, Peoria, Fulton, Madison and other counties, will have at least 75,000 inhabitants. Now, in the county of Peoria, with less than 50,000 inhabi tants, under a judge who transacts busi ness with the iutmost correctness and promptness, perhaps more rapidly than nine-tenths of the judges in the State, we have court from nine to ten months in the year and are behind the docket. Un der a former judge we had court still longer, and were still behind with the business. Now, sir, it is nothing more than fair that these counties should be erected into separate circuits for the transaction of their business. The gentleman from Ad ams [Mr. Browning] says, in his judg ment, one judge can transact the business i hess for 200,000 inhabitants. Now, I assert that Peoria county has less than fifty thousand, and that if Tazewell be added, and those two counties be made a circuit, they would then have less than seventy-five thousand inhabitants —no one judge could transact the business of those two counties. Mr. SHARP. Mr. President: I move to lay the amendment to the amendment offered by the gentleman from Peoria L[Mr. Wells] upon the table. The motion was agreed to. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The question is upon the amendment of the gentleman from McLean [Mir. Benjamin.] The Secretary read the amendment of- e fered by Mr. Benjamin, as follows: Insert after the words "exclusive of the county of Cook" the following: "and other counties having a population of 100,000." The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The question is upon the amendment offered by the gentleman from McLean [Mr. Benjamin.] Mir. BENJAMIN. Mr. President: I call for the yeas and nays. Mr. BROWNING. Mr. President: Were the words'exclusive of Cook county," stricken out? The PRESIDENT pro tempore. They were not. The question being on the amendment offered by Mr. Benjamin to section thirteen, the yeas and nays were ordered, and being taken, resulted —yeas, 27; nays; 24 — as follows: Allen of Alx'n,Eldredge, Ross, Archer, English, Scho1field, Atkins, Goodell. Skinner, Bromwell, Haines of LakeTinichei,' Brown, Hanna, Truesdale, Bryan, Hay, Washburn, Buxton, King, Wendling, Cary, McDowell, Wilson Cody, Medill, Wright, Coolbaugh, Pillsbury, Mr. President-32. Dement, Poage, Abbott, Anthony, Bayne, Ben jamin Bromwell, Cody, Cummings, Dement, to. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The question is next on s ection fourt een. The Secretary will rea d the section. The Secretao y read section fourteen, as follows: SEC. 14. The General Assembly shall pro. vide for the times of holding court in each county; which times shall not be changed, except by t he Ge neral Assembly n ext pre ceding the general election for ju dge s of said courts; but additional terms may be provided for in any county. The election for judges of the circuit courts shall be held on the first Monday in June next succeeding the crea tion of Bew circuits under this Constitution, and every six years thereafter. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. Sec tior fo ur teen will b e decla red adopted. The next qu esti on i s on section fifteen. The Secretary will read the section. The Secretary read section fifteen, as follows: SEC. 15. The General Assembly may divide the State into judicial circuits of greater population and territory, in lieu of the cir cuits provided for in section thirteen, and provide for the election therein, seversally, by the elector the leor hereof, by gen er al ticket. of three or more judges, wh o shall, res pectively, hold the circuit courts in the circuit for which they, shall be elected, in such manner as,nay be provided by law; but the whole number of judges to be elected in such enlarged circuits shall never exceed the proportion ot one for every one hundred thousand inhabitants in the State. AMr. NEECE. Mr. President: This section is inconsistent with section thir teen, and provides fT new and different mode of operating our judicial system, the effect of which will be injurious. When we examine the operations which are intended by it, it throws these cir cuits into one, with three judges holding courts therein. It must be intended for them to hold court alternately. What will be the effect? Take a judge living at one end of a large circuit. He musttravel around the entire circuit, and it becomes very difficult and annoying to him, for it puts him a great distance from his, home, many times rendering it impossible to reach his home, after holding court in one county, and before it is to commence in the next: adding to his expense and rendering it impossible to give his private business and his family such attention as he may under the system provided for in section thirteen. But there is a greater objection. Every man knows that j udges differ in their notimlis of the law, in rules-of practice. I once knew an action of assumpsit broulghton a promissory note, which was offered in evidencce, but was objected to, on theground that it was an instrument under seal, and the objection was sustained byJudge Walker, who was then presiding ill our circuit. The sulit was dismissed. The party then brought an auction of debton the no~te, describing it a~s an instrument under seaL. Obejection- was made te it in that suit, that it was an instrumeilt NAYS. Allen of Alexr.,Goodhue, R obinson, Anderson, Haines of Co'k,Scholfield, Bowman, Hankins, Sherrill, Brow%,ning, Harwood, Springer, Cameron, Hay, Sutherland, Cary, Hildrup, Tubbs, Church, Merriam, Underwood, Craig, Parker, Vandeventer, Cross, Perley, Wali, Fuller, Peirce, Wells-32. Gamble, Rice, ABSENT, OR NOT VOTING. Allen of Crfd. Goodell, Ross. Archer, Haines of L'k, Skinn er, t~~~~~~~~~Houanna." Atkins, eanna, incher, Brow n, McCoy, Truesdale, Bryan, McDowell, Washburn, Buxton, Medill, Wendling, Coolbaugh, Parks, Wilson, Eldredge, Pillsbury, Wright, Eng,lishl, Poage, Mr. President-27. So the motion of Mr. Cummings to strike out was not agreed to. Mr. FOX. I offer the following amend ment to} section thirteen. The Secretary read the amendment offered by Mr. Fox, as follows: Insert in tenth line, after the word "Con. stitution," the words i' but shall not be dimainish-ed in number until the expiration of the terms of the present circuit judges." The amendment offered by Mr. Fox was not agreed to. Mr. BENJAMIN. I move the following amdendment. The Secretary read the amendment of fered by Ml. Benjamin, as follows: Insert after the words " exclusive of the county of Cook," the following: "and other counties having a population of one hundred thousandd." Mr. BROWNING. Mr. President: I do not see any necessity for a change of this provision. There is Do county in the State, outside of Cook, for which one circuit judge will not be sufficient, even if it shiall attain to200,000 population. Mr. BENJAMIN. Mr. President: As the section now stands, if a county has 200,000 inhabitants, it could be divided into two cilcuits —the county could be divided get graphically. It would be preferable to have two courts of concurrent jurisdiction. Mr. BROWNING. Mr. President: If we shall hereafter have any county of the size suggested by the gentleman from McLean [Mr. Benjamin], it will be in consequence of its containing a large city, and under the provisions ot the Constitu~ 363 Abbott, Gamble, Rice, Allen, of Crwd'fHaines of CookRobinson, Anderson, Hankins Sherrill, Bowman, Harwood, Sutherland, Browning, Hildrup, Tubbs, Cameron, Neece, Underwood, Church, Perley, Wait, Fuller, Peirce, Wall —24. APP.IL 23, 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1445 twenty-two in the negative, the motion was not agreed to. Mr. CU-IMINGS. Mr. Presi-IeDt: I would inquire whether there is a quorum Voting? The PRESTDENT, pro tempore. There is -not a qtioruni VOtiDg. Alr. CUVLMINGS. iNIr. President: I call for tl-ie y(!as and Days. Mr. WHEKTON. Alr. President: I call for a divisiod, and ask that the question be first taken on the motion to strike out the words "exclusive of the county of Cook." The yeas and navs were ordered, and bcing taken, resulted-yeas, 24, nays, 32 -as follows: ABSENT, OR NOT VOTING. So the amendment offered by'4r. Ben. jainin to section thirteen was agreed to. Section thirteen as amended was agreed Y.OA.S. Ellis, Ft)rman, Fox, Hart, Yiaves, King, ,Aloore, Neece, Sedgwick, Sharp, Snyder, Tui-ner, Wagner, wart, Wheato 'I' WhitiDg'-24. YEAS. Anthony, Bayne,. Benjamin, Craig, Cl-oss, Cummings, Bilis, Forman, Fox, Goodhue, Hart, Hayes, mcoy, Merriam, Moore, Parker, Purks, Sedgwick, Sharp, Snyder, SpriDger, Turner, Vandeventer, Wagner, Wel7is, Wheaton' 7 Whiting-2. NIkys. 146C.TTTOA O~I~I) AUDY as to provide for the election of a majori ty of democrats in the State, unless the people were democratic in the respective districts. It is novel in its character, and to my mind, a dangerous innovation. I caynot exactly see the operation of this section, if the divisions are to be made as indicated here. It is something , thatt has never been inaugurated in the State before. I am not aware that the system exists in any other State-a sys tem by which three or four judges may be perambulating the same circuit, overc ruling each other's decisions, leading to confusion and retarding justice. I am in favor of each district electing its favorite judge, and keeping him un til his time has expired; and I am not in favor of having that judge annihilated, comparatively, by getting up any more latitudinous circuits and introducing new judges. I cannot see any necessity for it. it would not give any greater stability to the system, andi it is such a dangerous in ovation that I hope that this Convention ; will vote it down. I confess my inability, sir, to fairly and fully comprehend this section; but if there is any gentleman upon this floor who can, by any correct reasoning, eluci date it satisfactorily so as to convince me of its propriety, I will then vote for it. I have given it a careful and thorough con sideration, and I confess I do not exactly see what is meant by it, but if it is in tended to accomplish that which I think is the object intended to be attained here, I cannot give it my support, and I will vote for striking it out. Our work is now loaded down with innovations not demanded by the people, and it is time to put an end to them. DEATH OF THE HON. HENRY W. BILLINGS. The PRESIDENT, pro teml)ore. The Chair wishes to interrupt the proceedings of the Convention at this point. The Chair will entertain any motion from the gentleman from Kane [Mr. Wheaton], but desires now to comnmunicate to this Convention the official intelligence of the death of the Hon. Henry W. Billings, late a member of this Convention, who died on the 19th instant, in the State of e New York. That intelligence was com municated to a delegate upon this flo)or; the gentleman from Madison [Mr. Spring er], and the statement made by telegraph to him, that the remains had reached Alton, and that they will be interred this afternoon. Therefore it becomes my painful duty, as acting President of the Convention, to make the announcement that another one of our members has passed away, that proper steps may be taken by this Con vention to pay our respects to his mem ory. Mr. SPRINGER. Mr. President: The receipt of the announcement of the death of my colleague, brings to me painful emotions. I desire to (dfer the following preamble and resolutions, which I will read: WHEREAS, The Hon. Henry W. Billings, delegate to this Convention from the sixteenth representative district, has departed this life in the midst ofhis years, and the ma tured strength of his power s; and, WHEREAS, It is fitting for us to pause and note the admonition proclaimed by this sad event; therefore, be It eResolved, That in the affliction and death of Judge Billings, this Convenion has lost a learned and faithful counselor, the State an eeminent citizen, society an esteemed and use ful member, and the bar an able attorney and profound jurist. Resolved, That our earnest sympathy is herebv tendered to the family of the deceased, and while we may not extinguish the pain of bereavement, we would express our condo' lence for their irreparable loss. -Resolved, That the President of the Conven tion be directed to forward to the family a copy of the foregoing preamble and resolu tions, duly attested; and that out of further respect to the memory ofte ad the dad, this Con vention do now adjourn until nine o'clock on Monday morning next. Mr. President: The solemn announce. ment is made to us, for the fourth time since the commencement of our session, of the death of one of our number. When we paused in the midst of our duties to commemorate the death of Judge Em> merson, I little dreamed that the niamne of my distinguished, though unfortunate ' colleague, would so soon be added to the roll of the dead. But so it is, and by ' divine decree we are again admonished that "in the midst of life we are in L death." The evidences of our mortality accumulate around us at every step in life. In the vigor of manih)od we cast about us to determine our whereabouts, and ascertain our surroundings. We put forth our efforts to destroy opposing in fluences, or subdue them and make them the agents of our will. We dash eagerly onward, sarcely halting long enough by the way, to taste and enjoy the early ma turing fruits of our toil. We contract, execute, secure the results and turn to new fields of investment and enterprise; we form friendships, establish business and social relations, build houses, spread our couches, and-die. Days are nlum bered and years go by as before. In the whirl of events, old things pass away. Generation succeeds generation, and our names and places among men may be for gotten forever. And this is life-though not all of it. The acts of a man live after him, as surely as shadow follows substance, and it is the record of these acts that con stitute the "annals of mankind." Biog raphies vitalize history and impart to it all its utility. It is from the deeds of our representa tive men, their motives, maxims, and des tinies, as exemplified in their publc and private lives, that the history of our State is to be written. To the extent that these are lost sight of and forgotten, is our his tory to bse unlwrtten. When an eminent man dies, it is the sacred duty of his friends to perpetuate some memorial of his character and con duct, which shall be as a landmark on the pathway of human events, to point out the characteristics and perfect the history of his times and country. Judge Billings died of erysipelas, on the 19th1 instant, near Canandaigua, in the State of New York, whither he had gone for medical treatment. His inter ment will take place this afternoon, at Alton. Iu referring to the incitlents of his life, and to his premature death, I am not unmindful of my inability to speak int fittingg terms of the exalted traits of character manifested in his daily life, which distinguished him among his fel low men. Judge Billings was a native of Massa chusetts, and, at the time of his death, was fifty five years of age. He emigrated early in life to illinois, where l~e has ever since not under seal. The objection was sus tained by Judge Sibley, Judge Walker having been elected tothe supreme bench, Judge-, Bailey having been elected in his stead, and Bailey having got Judge Sib ley to hold the court, in orater that he might dispose of his business which he was then engaged in as attorney. Walker held that the plaintiff could not recover, in assumpsit, and Judge Sibley held that the plaintiff could not recover, in debt. Now, it seems to me, that under thlis new system proposed, many such instan ces might occur. One judge would grant an injunction the next judge following him would dissolve it. The judge grant ing the injunction might, when he came to hold the next court, punish the officers and persons violating it. Take a chancery case, wherei there is a voluminous record, and a large number of depositions to be examined. One judge would examine the matter, and after spending much time on it, it, from some cause, has to be continued Final order cannot be made. The next judge following in the circuit has to dispose of it. Of course, he has to hear the whole case anew; go through with all that the forrmer judge had done. Now, the labor of the first judge is lost. Very many such instances as these might happen. Mr. WHEATON. I would inquire of the Chair if it is in order to amend the section and perfect it before the motion to strike out is put. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The Chair is of the opinion that it is not. Mr. WHEATON. I understand, Mr. President, that the friends of the section may amend it and perfect it before the motion to strike out is put. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The Chair will remind the gentleman that it has passed the Committee of the Whole. Mr. HAY. Mr. President: I would inquire if this is an amendment of the Committee of the Whole'? As I under stand the rule only applies to amendments made by the Committee of the Whole, and amendments to the original section are in order. Mr. VANDEVENTER. Mr. President: I hope the motion made by the gentleman from McDonough [M~Ir. Neece] will prevail. The section is novel in iti character, and seems to be an excresenee upon this system provided by the Judiciary Committee. One of the chief objections that I have to it is, that the Legislature of the State may, hereafter, in time of political excitement, so manipulate these districts as to secure the election of a vast preponderence of the judges of the same political character and standing as of the Legislature itself. As has been well argued upon this :floor, nothing is more pernicious than to tolerate the fostering of a political judiciary, or to adopt any means that will favor or maintain a political spirit in the judiciary. This section gives the right to the Le-gislature to abolish the system that we have adopted for the districting of the State, and~ which seems to be palatable andl acceptable to this Convention, and suffers them to district the State to suit either political party that happens to lie in politmcal ascendency. blow, I would not bze in favor of having a democratic majority so manipulating These districts i 1446 CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION SATURDAYI APRIL 23, 1870. DEBATES AND I'OCEED1NGS. 1447 case, and summoning all his powerful energies to the work, seldom failted in his object, even in the midst of perilous extremities. If in his investigations of acase he had consented to take, he became convinced that he was wrong, and enlightened conscience and deliberate judguient did not approve the cause, he early informed his client of the fact and withdrew from it at once, or as soon thereafter as was consistent, if it were possible to do so; otherwise, I have thought, his energies relaxed, and he was at such times with less dif. ficulty unarmed. He never felt so strong as when conscious that he was right. In his arguments to the court, which were ever clear, logical and pungent, and pronoanced in elegant diction, he was peculiarly interesting, and was always listened to by the court and members of the bar with profound attention and respect. His knowledge of the law and the rules of practice, together with a ready command of authorities, fortified him against surprise; and the confidence reposed in his legal opinions always obtained for him a decided advantage, which was not easily overcome. He was not what is usually termed a brilliant speaker, though he pursued his subject closely, presented it clearly, and left it when he had said enough. It was not his practice, when addressing the court, to indulge in "the flowers of rhetoric," attempt misrepresentation, or appeal to either passion or pre(.judice. He rested his hopes of success on the principles of the law, and in the facts and equities of iis case; when these failed, he expected defeat, and did not hesitate to express his approval of the decision when rendered against him. But if Judge Billings was successful before the court, he was still more successful in addressing a jury. This may be accounted for, perhaps, in the wider range given to debate, and by the fact that juries are usually more easily influenlced by appeals to their sensibilities than are experienced judges, who hold their impulsive nature under effective d iscipline. Judge Billings had no superiors before a jury of his county. Here he was, perhaps, mostly feared by opposing counsel. His knowledge of the human mind and heart, was not more perfect than his familiarity with all the approaches to them. He knew j ust how to state his case —the manner and the language to be employe d. He knew where to commence, and wilen to leave off. His control ot men was wonderful, though not unnatural. There is a princi ple planted by Deity in the human breast, which impels us to admire elegance, trust honesty, believe the truth and desire j ustice. He who is able to inspire those qualities in the mind of a man, emav dictate his actions. This ability was possessed by Judge Billings to a very great extent. His style of oratory was chaste and attractive, his manner pleasing and impressive, and indicating the honesty of his purpose; his statements were full and bore the impress of truth. As a citizen, Judge Billings long occupied a prominent and enviable position. Hie was not long in public life, though the great interest he felt in the general welfare of his country, was well known to all who were acquainted with him. The relations of the citizen to the State were well understood and appreciated by him. APRIL 23, 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1447 resided. Here were the scenes of his early struggles. He was unusually favored with natural gifts. He bad a vi-,)rotis constitution, and an active, investigating mind. He relied on his own energies, and always assumed the responsibilities of his acts. The future was open to him; the present was his own, and he knew well how to improve it. He was public spirited, and entered with zeal into all the enterprisi.ug measures which contemplated a general or special benefit to the coi-nmultity in which he lived. He encouraged iiidus try and economy in public and private station, as the surest guarantees of indi-vidual, social and political progress. The immediate circle of his friends was not large, though select. He cherished an abiding interest in the welfare of every man. All received his kindly attentions ard treatment, and he, in return, possess ed their good -will and confidence, Though dignified and somewhat reserved in his dei-neanor, there was a certain vein of genial hui-n)r, peculiar to himself, per vadidg his entire nature, that always attracte,-t, never failed to please the observer, and served to dispel any unfavorable impression which might have been hastily formed of his social qualities. It was my privilege to know Judoe Billings cl-iiefly as a lawyer. I. the practice of his profession, he was justly regarde-I as the peer of any attorney at the bar of Southern Illinois. His reputa tic,n was not of that ephemeral character which is acquired in a day and mav be dispelled in a moment; but of that (;ther kiud, which is the acquisition of long years of patient industry and extensive research, of toilsome thought and study, which master the intricate and rob mystery of its doubts. With him, as long as there was a doubt lingering in his mind as to what was or what was Dot the law, or any uncertainty as to the truth or fallacy, right or wroing, of a proposition, he was in that - condition of perplexity, that never admitted of rest or composure, but urged him on to further investiationlulitil all obstructions were removed, and his convictions were settled and firm, then his actions conformed to those convictions. If right, he approved, and was ever ready to defend. If wrong, he condemned and opposed. This He cheerfully bore the burdens impo,,zed upon him by society, and rcijdered a williDg obedience to the laws of his country. He had the confidence of his fellow-citizens, yet he persistently refused their offers of public trusts, preferring to pursue his profession, and eDj oy the quietude and retirement of his home. He served one term as judge of the Altoit city court-wfjere he distinguished himself as a jurist, but at the expiration of his term he declined to serve longer, and could never after be prevztiled upon to accept any office of, public trust, until he coilsented to become a candidate for election to this convedtion. In politics, he was conservative. He adhered to the old whig party until it was disorganized, since which time he has acted with. the democracy; but he "never gave to party what was intended for mankind." While he recognized the right and duty of the government to adopt and execute any policy within constitutional limitations, which might be necessary to perpetuate its pwers, and preserve the peace and promote the welfare of society, yet he never adopted radical measures, consideridg that the purposes of governmeiat could be more effectually served by moderate than vigorous policies. Ti-ie liberality of these views, his pleasing social qualities, his habits of thought and study, his extended and thorough knowledge of law and legal principles, his familiarity with the history and policies of our government, the honesty of his impulses, and the rectitude of his purposes, secured for him an unusual popularity, and designated him as a proper person to be intrusted with the public faith and confidence. It was a knowledge of these qualities of mind and heart that induced the people of his district, without solicitation or effort on his part, to select and commission him to represent them in this Convention. He accepted the trust freely, but with a consciousness of its onorous responsibilities. He met with us at the organization of the Convention. He was colstaiitly in his seat; and while be did not participate generally in the animated Discussions wliieli distiiguistied the early part of the se,sit)n, be sought not to avoid any duty, wbtitever might be its nature or responsibility. He accepted his seat 144 c!NTTUIXJ COYwTO AUDY he ever was an aspirant for any political office. He was a candidate for the Convention of 1862, but was not elected. To this body he was elected in a district where his political sentiments were largely in a minority, ana where, I may safely say, no other man of his party could have been elected. Men of all parties had unbounded confidence in the sound judg ment, the high sense of honor of rectitude and principles of Judge Billings; a man of clear head, cool judgment, decision of character, a man above doing mean or dishonorable acts, a man, sir, of whom I may safely say: "To know him was to love him, To name him was to praise." He had no enemies. All who k-new him appreciated and enjoyed his society and were charmed by his suavity. His death makes up the proportion of nearly one twentieth of the Convention, that have been stricken down since we met here in December. Whose fate to fall next? No one can tell. I carry my mind back to Springfield, twenty-five years ago, and think of the prominent public men whose names were then well known all over the Statemen of mark in the drama of life. How few of them are still living! I look back to the Convention of 1862, and recollect the presiding officer, Mlr. Hacker. He sleeps his last sleep. The two delegates from my own county, Governor French and my brother, are no more. Since our first meeting, four of this Convention have gone to their long home. A few years more and we will all have seen the last of earth. Let us then be up and doing, With a heart for ev;ery fate, Still achieving, still pursuing, Learn to labor and to wait." "Revolutions sweep O'er earth like troubled visions o'er the breast Of dreaming sorrow; cities rise and sink Like bubbles on the water; fiery isles Spring blazing from the ocean, and go back To their mysterious caverns; mountains rear To heaven their bold and blackened cliffs, and bow Their tall heads to the plain; new empires rise, Gathering the strength of hoary centuries, And rush down, like the Alpine avalanche, Star tling the nations; even the very stars, Youn bright and glorious blazonry of God, Glitter awhile in their eternal depths, And, like the Pleiad, loveliest of their train, Shoot from their glorious spheres, and pass away To darkle in the trackless void. brief space of these remarks, but I may be permitted to say, that he was an affa ble, agreeable, public-spirited gentleman, of gener ou s impulses, ad te nde tedr sympa this es., H e was a f aithful friend, aln obl ig ing neighbor, a kind an d considerate husband, and an idulgent father. Those who knew him best appreciated him most. To his friends I would say: "Emulate his example"; to the people: "Treasure up his words of admonition and coun sel"; to his bereaved and sorrowing family: "He who notes the sparrow's fall, and tempers the wind to the shorn lamb," is kind. He will be a husband to the widow, and a father to the orphan. Trust in Him. Air. UNDERWOOD. Mr. President: I was iatimnately acquainted with Judge Billings for more than a quarter of a cen tury. He came to this State about that time from Massachusetts; a genrleman of education, well versed in literature and his profession, located at Waterloo, Mon roe county, where he continued a short time, then removed to Kaskaskia. That place being upon the decline, he went flom thence to Alexander county, where he remained a number of years, prac tising his profession with success. About twenty years ago he came again to our part of the State, and settled in Alton, where he resided till his death. For the last twenty years, in the city of Alton, he had been engaged untiringly in the practice of his profession, anid had accumulated, perhaps, as much property, as irty man in the profession should rationally desire. He selected for himself a home in a beautiful site upon the Mississippi river, above the city of Alton, which commands a view of that meandering stream, and the landscape on the west, as far as the eye could penetrate. Surrounded by neighbors of similar taste, wealth and refinement, where society was agreeable, and art and nature combined to afford ainidst the labors and toils of active basiness, "a feast of reason, and a flow of soul," he erected a residence, constructed its surroundings with taste and elegance-fruit trees, shrubbery and flowers externally; in the house, works of literature, art, genius, such as would interest a cultivated mind. Although he gave undivided attention to his profession, he was a man of elegant rt.fiaement, and fond of social enjoyment. Durir,g the summer's heat he usually took his family, went to the sea:oast, or to a watering place, and enjoyed hsis leisure with satisfaction. His famnily was sma[1 —a wife and two childrenl-to whom he was devotedly attached. He had a lavw library, perhaps the best in southern Illinois, anid a selection of literary works of rare value. Thus, sir, he passed his time, socially; and, in his occupation, he labored cheerfully and fidthfully, in a philosophical, dig,uified and munuly m~anner. Every thin~g at home alad abroad calc~ulated to please and to gratity rationally the human mind, was his. So far as earth's enljoymenits were concerned, they were multiplied to him. General health, general prosperity, the comforts and luxuries of life,;a genial home and family —all that the heart desires. He had not much, perhaps not scarcelyr wany, political ambition. IUo not think Mr. ALLEN, of Alexander. Myr. President: I yield to my feelings which.urge me to say a wo rd on the subject of th e res oluti ons, before the occ asion passes. Judge Billings was for several years a resident of the county of Alexander, in which I now reside. Almost his first efforts in the practice of t he law, were put forth when fie was a resident of the town of Unity, on e a e the Cache, then the county seat of Alexander. There he lived for several years-there he became a hus band, and when he left there, -he was re garded as the leading lawyer of the coun. ty, and indeed, of that part of the old third judicial circuit, then composed of fifteen counties. It was my fortune, Mr. President, to become acquainted with Judge Billings in 1848, when I was first admitted to the bar, to have e!- joyed his warm personal friendship at that period, and to have received fiogi him, when I most needed them, words of encouragement, and that support so necessary to all young law. yers when commencing practice. He was my warm personal friend till his death. I have, as I think all who properly appreciate him have, a high regard for Judge Billings'professional abilities. He was a clear, cogent reasoner. He was a good lawyer. He was a man of character-not of mere notoriety. He was a man of strong convictions, which he always, followed. - On leaving the county of Alexander, he moved to St. Louis, and there remained a short time, forming a partnership with Mr. Parsons in the practice of the law. Afterwards he located in Alton and remained until the time of his death. Without being a brilliant man, rs popP ularly understood, I regarded Judge Billings as one of the first lawyers of southern Illinois. He had a candid mind, Mr. President. He never sought to deceive others, and, therefore, was seldom deceived himself. His reliance was upon truth, upon equity, upon justice, and these scarcely ever faiied him. o The proud bird, The Condor of the Andes that can soar Through heaven's unfathomable depths, or brave The fury of the northern hurricane And bathe his plumage in the thunder's homer Furls his broad wings at night-fall, and sinks down To rest upon his mountain crag; but time Knows not the weight of sleep or weariness, And night's deep darknesahas no chains to bind His rushing pinion. Yet time, Time, the tomb-builder, holds his fierce career, Dark, stern, all pitiless, and pauses not Amid the mighity wrecks that strew his path, To sit a nd muse, like oth e r conquerors, Upon that fearful ruin he hath wrought." Sir, it is some consolation. as we look back and around us, to see that our State is mnore prosperous and beautiful than ever, and that the orld in which we live is lifting itself upward and moving onward. Everything useful and ornamental is mul tiplied for posterity. The intellect is be CONSTITUTIONAI, CONVENTION SATURDAY) 1448 ing cultivated. Education is becoming UDivei;-,-a-1. The bedefit of the culture of the past, by means of the art of printing and engravidg,, is preserved to posterity. The deaf, the dumb., the blind, tt)e iiisade and the poor are cared for and protected. Improvementsin our State -,tnd national institutions and in the laws, are being perfected and advanced for those who come after us. It is some satisfaction to us to know that we, on our part, may aid some little in in perfecting, improving and making earth a comparative clysium. It is true, we cannot all have our names immortal in history and preserved by poets. Work,.4 of genius and art will not be dedicated to us, but we can at l(ast, leave some little, humble impress upon mankind and the age in which we live. If we cannot have our names en;,ci-olled high up on the roll of fame, at least the humblest of us may hope to leave "Foot-prints on the sands of time Foot-prints that perhaps another, Sailing o'er lifels troubled main, Some f,)rlorn and shipwrecked brother, Seeing shall take heart again. APRIL 23, 1870. DEBATES AM) PROOEEDIGS. 149 mother to carry him in her arms, nor lit tle sister to share his trepidations; that king and priest, warrior and maiden, statesman and philanthropist, philosopher and child, all must "walk those mighty galleries alone;" that life is but a thread, and our pat hway but a dream; that the years are vanishing like the shifting fig ures in a kaleidoscope; and that soon, alh, how soon! all must fiollow in the path way of these, our brothers, to the shad owy land. Let us then be admonished, by these sor rows, that this is not our abiding place. Let us, so far as we may, imitate the vir tues of the departed, and so use the time that we have, that it may not be said of us, "they lived in vain." The present only is ours, and what is the present? Let DeQuincy in his beautiful imagery an swer: "Put into a Roman Clepsydra one hun dred drops of water; let these run out as the sands in au hour glass, every drop measuring the hundredth part of a second, so that each shall represent but the threej hundred and sixty thousandth part of an hour. Now count the drops as they race along; and when the fiftieth of the hun dred is passing, behold, forty-nine are not, because already they have perished, anda fifty are not, because they are yet to come. How narrow, therefore, how in calculably narrow, is the true and actual present. Of that time which we call the present, hardly a hundredth part but belongs either to a past which has fled, or to a future which is still on the wing. It has perished, or it is not born. It was, or it is not. "Yet even this approximation to the truth is infinitely false. For again sub divide that solitary drop, which only was ifound to represent the present, into a lower series of similar fractions, and the actual present which you arrest, measures now but the thirty-six millionth of an hour; and so by infinite declensions the true and very present, in which we only live and enjoy, will vanislh into a mote of a mote, distinguishable only by a heaven ly vision. Therefore, the present which only man possesses, offers less capacity for his footing than the slenderest film that ever spider twisted from her womb; and even the incalculable shadow from the narrowest pencil of moonlight, is more transitory than geometry can measure cr thought of angel can overtake; the time which it contracts into a mathr natematical point; and even that point perishes, a thousand times, before we can utter its birth. All is finite in the present, end even that finite is infinite in its velocity of flight towards death." But in God there is nothing finite-r nothing transitory. In Him there can be nothing that tends to death. Hence, for God, there can be no present. The future is the present of God; and to the future it is that He sacrifices the human present. Therefbre, it is, that He works by grief-by human sorrow-such sorrow as bathes the heart of every member of this Convention to-day. Oh! deep is the ploughing of grief! But oftentimes less would not suffice for the agriculture of God. Upon the sorrow of a child He raises, oftentimes, from human intellects, glorious fruit that could not else have been; and these fruits, born of piercing sorrows, are needed for the "mysterious children of the earth." Sit, there is a "mystery and labyrinth DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. APRIL 23) 1870. 1419 lia a social point of view, Judge Bit Iiings had no superior. He was genial ancl generous, but, sir, he was always ele vated and pure. A man of integrity above suspicion, which, without parading it ostentatiously before the public, seemed to be recognized by all, and especially by those who came in contact with him. I-le leaves a reputation as- a lawyer, as a friend, as a gentleman, of which his children and his friends may well be proud, for it is an invaluable inheritance. While not participatidg as some men have, in the stirriug scenes of life, in the turmoils of partisan strife-fortunate for him, perhaps, that he did not-he still leaves a character which show,,;, and is well understood, by every one to prove, that he was not afraid to battle with the trials of life; and in every battle he had met, by his position, personal, professional or otherwise, he came out the victor. I have no set form - of speech, in which to express my admiration of his character, but have a heart within me, which bids me say, that Judge Billin-s was an honest man, a true friend, an elevated gentleman, an upright cfiizen, a kind father and husband, and that in his death, the community to which he is best known, indeed, the whole State, has suffered an irreparable loss. 31r. BOWMAN. Mr. President: For the fourth time, has the dark mantle of sorrow fallen heavily upon this Convention in the loss of one'of its brightest, best and purest minds. I had no personal acquaiiatance with Jud-ae BilliDgSto see him was to admire im, and I am sure to know him was to love him. He sat with us but a few days in the early part of the session-so few, that those days now seem but a dream, in looking back upon them-yet they serve to deeply impress my mijad with the conviction that this Convention has suffered the lo, —s of one of its brightest ornaments-one of its most Deserving and useful members. In the pride of his usefulness, in the flower of his manhood, in the very noontide of life, the subtle power of the invisible touched the Temple of his brain, and the mighty fabric of thought fled shrieking from its throne, leaving in its stead the shadowy monument of sullen despair. Lij3geriug thus through weary in the economies of this world," that we, in our weakness, sometimes fail to under stand. The ways of Providence are in scrutable, and his paths past finding out; yet do we not hear in this vast choral an them of death, the voice of the Creator, wrapt as in a cloud of music, saying, "Child that sorrowest, I command thee to rise up and ascend for a season into my Heaven of Heavens." . Mr. HAYES. Mr. President: I can not refrain from laying my imperfect tribute upon the bier of our departed brother. JuJge Billings was among the acquain tances and companio-us of my early man hood. Itisnowtwenty-sevenyearssince I made his acquaintance, when we both lived in the southern part of the State. He then had the same character which he sustained afterward, and until the time of his death-that of a worthy, estimable, upright gentleman, who had the esteem, the respect and the confidence of all who knew him. I have not the words to do justice to my feelidgs, when I recall those distant times; when I remember that so few- of those that I met when I first knew him, are now living. AmoD-a the number present when I first met Ju(rge Bilting,3, at the Alexander court, I believe only three are now living in Illinois. A long line has passed away; several of them men of the first ability and learning; of growing reputation, with the' brightest prospect of attaining all that this world can give of eminence and honor. They have gone before! Y,enry Eddy, Edward Jones, Willis Allen, Samuel D. Marshall, David J. Baker, William A. DeniniDg, and several others, were present at the term of the court, when I first met this excellent gentleman who has now followed them to their long home. Among all those names, and the names of other eminent men whom I have known in this State, I believe there was no one., who to a greater extent had my respect than the subject of these remarks. He was not a person whose ambition was excessive. He did not desire to obtain highplaces of power and honor, but he did lay out to himself an ideal, a model, that of a good lawyer, an upright man, a respectable gentleman, a citizen worthy of the respect of the community. That, sir, was 345 COSIUINL(OJET AUDY fly to luring the hour that has come to these four, when the breath shall pass from our pale lips, when we, too, shall cease from troubling, and ours shall be, as theirs is, the peace that comes from the eternal rest. Mr. KING. Mr. President: This is the first time in my life, I believe, I have ever said anything on an occasion of this kind-the death of a fellow man is an event I do not like to talk about. But representing a district adjoining the one from which the deceased came, I feel that I would not be doing my duty-that I would be derelict to the duty I owe the people I represent here, if I did not say something in regard to him, who was held in such high esteem by the people of Jersey and Calhoun counties. Those people have known Judge Billings for nearly the twenty years since he came to the State, and in those counties he stood high in the regard of the people, without regard to party feeling or predilections. When I came to this State, and entered my county, his name was remembered by the people there, without regard to party, with esteem. They had looked upon him in the district which I represent, as the ablest lawyer and the most sound jurist they had. Indeed he has beenso I am told by those among whom I live -for twenty years regarded as being one of their soundest lawyers, and since my residence there I have known some of our best lawyers of the bar go to Alton to consult with Judge Billings. We have looked upon him as our counselor, as our adviser. When we were not able to satisfy ourselves upon any proposition, we resorted to that tribunal which was situated in Upper Alton-his office. That, sir, is the light in which my people have regarded him. I had not myself the pleasure of his acquaintance until within about three years, and that was slight, having been brough" about by a recommendation to consult Judge Billings on a question involving a large sum of money. I found him a polite and profoundly learned gentleman. After the assembling of this Convention, I became intimately acquainted with Judge Billings. I met him on the train as we were on our way to this Convention. We shook hands and had a conversation. When we arrived, he went to one hotel and I to another. We met in the morning, and two or three days after that, on the street in this city, and he asked me where I was boarding. He said: "I am boarding at a private house, but think of changing. Let us go together; I can be of some benefit to you." I told him that I was very well situated where I was; but knowing him to be a man of superior ability-a man in whom my people had great confidence —I said I would go with him. We went and selected a room at the Revere House, in this city. I was asked if the room would suit us. I said it would. We had made all the arrangements in December, before the recess, to return and take possession. I did return, and took possession. I sat there night after night waiting for Judge Billings to come, and at the end of one week I was informed, by a letter from his law partner (Mr. Wise), that he was unable to come, and that he would not be able to come for six or eight weeks. Upon the receipt of that sad news, I knew that 1450 CONSTITUTIONAL CONYENTION - SATURDAY, my tribute to his excellence and his worth. I do not know from my own intercourse with him the habits of thought the mental peculiarities which beloi)ged to our friend toward the close of his life. I met him but seldom of late years. But from the testimony of those who lived nearer his home and knew him better during the last few years than I did, and from my recollections of our early intercourse, I have the conviction that they were of a character to prepare him for the sad event which has happened to'im, and which will happen to all of us. I trust, sir, that such was the case, and I trust that 6this event, a ith the other events of the same kind which have preceded it during the session of this Convention, will bear to -our hearts a lesson, a solemn lesson, that to life there is an end, and that that end, whether it come soon or late, according to the enumeration of years, will come all too soon to those who have not regarded it, and have not prepared for it. it is an event that mlist happen to us all. To some of us it mav happen very soon; to others, later; but'is it not incumbent upon us, in view of these sad les.,sons and warnilgs, to consider well the solemn fact that that evert will come to each and every one of us? Is it not incui-nbent upon us to so live that when we approach that last solemn hour, we shall have no regrets, but be ready to lay ourselves down to our final rest, and look with well-founded cojafidence to a merciful Creator, for the forgiveness of our sins, and for peace hereafter? Mr. PERLEY. Mr. President: We do not get accustomed to death. It always shocks us. Often as it crosses our path in life, it always comes as a spectre ttiat we dread. We are so made that we cannot help it. Birth and death, the beginning and the ending of our being here, is a mystery to us, and will be forever, and t'not all the preaching since Adain, has made death other than death." To-day, our hearts throb again with painful emotions. Death has again entered our midst, and summoned another of our companions to join the great Convention above. The list Of those who are absent here, and present there, daily grows larger. all the bright hopes that I had built up, were blasted. Such was my connection with Judge BilliDgs in this Convention. He selected me as his room-mate, and I esteemed that selection an honor, for I was a YOUDger man, a comparative stranger, and had known him but a few years. Mr. President, we have loqt four of the brightest ornaments of this Convention, accoididg to the statements of their friends on this floor; four of the brightest stars that once shone here, have gone to their long home. I feel that there never was a legislative body in this State so seriously afflicted by an overruling Providence. It is a warning to US to prepare ourselves so that we may be transplanted to that upper and better land, where there will be no uprootidg and dying, but the weary will forever ]5e at rest. Mr. RICE. Mr. President: Should I consult my own feelidgs, I should remain silent on this occasion. But there is something due to the memory of a good man, a valuable citizen, husband and father, who has, by an upright course of life, and a diligent performance of all its varied duties, won for himself a reputatiOD, and a name, such that the best of us may feel ourselves fortunate, if we pos., sess the assurance that we shall leave such an one when called from earth to the spirit-land. The reason that I say that if I, should follow my inclinatioDs, I should remain silent, is because I feel how poor, how barren, how inexpressive is human language, when employed to express the emotions, and sentiments, and feeliDgS of the heart, as we stand in the preselice of death. The conceptions and work of the intellect may be expressed in spoken or written language; but the emotions and sentiments of the heart have found no language of utterance through the inventions of human art. Sir, the languaoe of angels can scarce express or paint the deeper, more sacred or solemn emotions of the human soul, Words in attempting to do so sound hollow and iinsignificant. I feel it when I talk. I feel it when I listen to others. There is that, Mr. President, passing through your mind, through the mindsof my fellow members, and throu' h my own, 9 which has found no expression in words here, that never can be expressed in hu ArRIL 23, 1870. DEBATES AN~D -PROGEEDINGS. 1451 The question being upon the resolution offered by Mr. Springer, it was unani mously agreed to. So the Convention (it twelve o'clock and thirteen minutes) adjourned. the highest aim of his earthly ambition. The reputation that he won, was based upon the confidence inspired by the fidelity and ability with which he discharged all his duties,professional, social, domestic, and public, when called upon. He did not use appliances and blandishments, that are used sometimes to win a merely ephemeralreputation. The longer he was known the more he was appreciated. He never sought public employment outside of his profession. The few public positions that he has occupied were such as the people, without his solicita tion, b estowed upon him. They sought h im; he never sought the position. It was bec au se his character and ability made it a duty, that his services were given to the public; not that he desired the reputation or the notoriety t hat public position gives. He was modest and unassuming. He was dignified in manner, and chaste in l anguage, descending, in all his life, to nothin g l ittle, nothding below the highest standard of an elevated morality in his intercourse with men. If doing an act of injustice, from what I know of his character, and the sensitiveness of his conscience, no one would suffer from that act as much as Judge Billings himself. iIe could not do wrong without being pained, if conscious of it. He had too, Mr. President, been successful, and had filled the full measure of a reasonable ambition in his favorite profession. He had reached the full maturity of years. He had acquired a competency that afforded him without toil and anxiety, all that one could reasonably desire. He had a home, elegant and beautified, a circle of friends, and a fanmily around him, to whom he was devoted, and who were in turn devoted to him. He had the confidence of the entire community, irrespective of classes or parties, where he lived, and where he was best known. With all these earthly blessings and advantages around him, he was called away, in that myst erious dispensation of Providence, from earth to the world of spirits-the fourth one summoned from this hall, to a haven beyond the dark river of death. Death is the common leveller-the fate that awaits all living men. It may cqme in the meridian of life, in the full tide of usefulness. It is the lot that you and I must accept, willingly or unwillingly. It may come soonier, it may come later; but the grave is the commlon bond of brotherhood of the whole human race. Thlere we are all equal; there is no distinction there. This reflection should teach us how dependent we are upon each other for mutual sympathy, support, forbearance, and courtesy, in all the duties -we haves to pelform here and elsewhere, in life; that we should never be forgetful of the rights, the feelings, the senktiments, the interestsof the humble and poor, or overestimate the high and the elevated. This is the common ground upon which we all shall ultimately stalnd. Ar)JOUUR~IENT. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The question is upon the resolution of the gentleman from Madison [Mir. Springer]. Mr. IIAY. Does the resolution conetemplate an adjournment for the day? T-he PRESIDENT, pro tempore. It simply states that- the Convention adjourn, but it will be corrected so as to bead "until Monday morning." SE VENTY-NINT.H DAIY. MONDAY, April 25,1870. The Convention met at nine o'clock A. u., and was called to order by the President. PRAYER. Prayer was offered by the Rev. Mr. Miller, of Springfield, as follows: Our Father who art in heaven; we come to Thee again to express before Thee our sense of Thy goodness and Thy loving kindness towards us who are Thy children, dependent upon Thee from day to day for our daily bread, for the proper guidance of our lives, and for the provision of all things. And we pray Thee, our Father, that Thou wilt grant grace and wisdom unto Thy servants assembled here to lay the foundation of government. Wilt Thou enable them to frame a law that may promote the highest cwell-being of the people in every department of life. Do Thou impart unto them wisdom and grace, through Thy holy spirit, that they may rightly understand the questions which occupy their attention here, and may so adjust the matt(rs which pass under their revisLion, as to meet with Thy approbation, and the approbation of those for whom the work is done. Father, we commit our government, all the interests of this nation, in every department, into Thy hands. Give grace unto those who are appointed to rule. May they remember that they aye men, accountable to God, and that they need wisdom from on high in order to faithfully and successfully perform the duties assigned to them. Lord, bless the labors of the husbandman. Give us fruitful seasons, that there may be no famine in the land. -Lord, turn aside the pesti lence from our shores. Secure us from all evil. Let morality and rigteousness prevail t hroug o uut our country, to the glory of Thy name in Jesus Christ, our Saviour. Amen. READING OF THE JOURNAL. The Secretary proceeded to read the journal of the last day's proceedings, when — Mr. MERRIAM. Mr. President: I move that the further rcading of the journal be dispensed with. The motion was agreed to. SUPERINTENDENT OF PUBLIC IINSTRUC TION. The PRESIDENT. The Chair will present to the Convention a communication from the treasurer of the Illinois Industrial University, in compliance with a resoluation of the Convention, adopted on the 21st instant. The Secretary will read the communication. The Secretary read the communication, as follows: SPRINGFIELD, April 23, 1870. hon. Charles HiEtchcock, President Constitutional Convention: dSIR:-In compliance with the following resolution, adopted tby the CoDstitutional Convention on the 21st instant, "That the treasurers of the State Normal School, lhocated, at Bloomington, Illinois, and the ItIdustrial University, located at Urbana, Illinois, be requested to furni-h the Convention ally and all amounts of money paid the Hon. Newton Bateman for his services, per diemn allowance, mileage, incidental expenses, or for any purpose whatever, during his connection with one or both of said institutions," I have the honor to report that the Hon. Newton Bateman was paid, June 5th, 1868, fourteen dollars and eighty-two cents, being amount advanced by him to the regent for ApiEtIL 23, 1870. DEBATES AND -PROCEEDINGS. 1451 postage on circulars for the Illinois Industrial University. No other money, for any purpose whatever, has been paid bv, me as treasiirer of Paid university to the ilon. Newton Bateman. Very respectfully,, JOHN W. BuNm, Treasurer Illinois Industrial University. [Laughter.] - I JUDICIAL DEPARTMENT. The PRESIDENT. The next business in order is the ui3finished business of Saturday, ard the question is upon the motion to strike out section fifteen of the roport of the Committee of the Whole on the judiciary article. SUPERINTENDENT OF PUBLIC INSTRUC TION. Mr. CARY. Mr. President not certain but this communication should be printed for the benefl-t of some of our friends. I move that two hundred copies be printed. [Laugfiter ] Mr. CROSS. Mr. President: I move that the motion of the gentleman from JoDaviess [Mr. Cary] be laid upon the table. The motion was agreed to. JUDICIAL DEPARTMENT-AGAIW. Mr. WHEATON. Mr. President: I hope tllattliat motion'Will notprevail. The Convention has already stricken out section eleven, which is one of the best provisions in this judiciary article, pro. vididg for an intermediate appellate court. It was stricken out on the motion of somebody, without any reason being -iven for it. Now, the motion is made to strike out section fifteen without - any reason being given for it; and as I was very greatly surprised at the action of the Convention in striking out section eleven, I may be still further Purprised, if there is no discussion upon this question, in seeing section fifteen stricken out. In the m-,tD-ner that we lire going on in this Convention, with referedce to the judiciary article, the entire labor of the ,Tudiciary Committee for the most of the winter, and the entire labor of the Comn-iittee of the Whole in perfecting this article, will be Dugatory. We have struck out almost every provision in which this article d;ffers from the present COnStitUtiOD, and ii we go on in this manner, when we get through, in Convention, with it, the judiciary article, as agreed upon by this Convention, will not be a wlit better than that in the old Constitution; and there is no one question, I believe, which, more than aiiv other, caused the calling of this Convention, than the defects in the'udiciary article in the present Constitution. Now, this section -provides-the article having already provided-t.bat the circuit shall be of such a size; that larger circul'ts mav be made; two or three circuits thrown together, if ycu please, and three judges elected fo.T those districts. Seeing that section eleven is stricken out, and liavidg waited lbr some )ne to ,move to reconsider the action by which it was tricken out, -%-.-Iiich has not yet been moved, I move to add to section fiftee'D, if in order, the fOllOWiDg: In the last line of cect ion flfteen, after the word "State," add th(-, following: ',The GeDeral Aisseml)y may provide that said circuit judges shall hold general terms in their respective circuits, for the hearing and dete,rM!Dat ion of Itw questions only, at which terms said judges stiall sit in baac, to hear and determinesuch questiomi but no judge 145 ()OSJUI-LC~ETO oA The Secretary read the amendment of rered by Mr. Wheaton, as follows: In the last line of section fifteen, after the word "State," add the following: "The Gen eral Assembly may provide that said circuit judges shall hold general terms in their re spective circuits, for the hearing and deter ruination of law questions only, at which terms said judges shall sit in banc, to hear and determine such questions; but no judge shall sit in review upon cases which were de cided by him." The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the motion to' strike out. Under the rules, the motion to strike out takes precedence of a motion to amend, and is equivalent to a rejection of the section. The rule that the friends of a proposi tion have a right to perfect it before the question is taken upon striking out and inserting a substitute, applies to a mo. tion to strike out and insert only. A simple motion to strike out, under the rules takes precedence, and is a rejection of the prop(sition, if carried. Mr. VANDEVENTER. Mr. President: It is possible that it may be a fair infer ence, from the remarks of the gentleman who has just taken his seat, that he would desire the Convention to entertain the opinion that it was impossible for him to be in error in regard to these transactions. HIe either was not paying any attention (if he was in the hall) to what I was say ing, or his memory is very defective, or else he wilfully intends to misrepresent what I stated. Mr. WHEATON. Mr. President: I understood the gentleman to say on Sat urday, that there was no State that had any such system. Mr. VANDEVENTER. Mr. Presid ent: I will explain: Not one single word that I said on Saturday had any application to anything in regard to an appellate court. I was not talking about the appellate court. That question was not before the Convention. I directed my remarks merely to these latitudinous circuits that might hereafter be created by the Legislature, where three or four judges might peregrinate around the circuit, and hold courts first in one and then in another county. It was those courts that I was speaking of, and the gentleman has not stated anything as to where the necessity is for their establishment, though he certainly does assume a very singular ground in regard to the judiciary report. MNow, sir, I hold it to be fair and reasonable, that whenever a committee makes an innovation upon the present existing system, it is not for the enemies of that system to give the reason why it should not be adopted; but it does look to me reasonable and rational that the advocates of that innovation should give some reason why it should be adopted. If here is something that is new, if gentlemen are seeking to inaugurate a new system, it does look to me they should offer reasons pro, and not require me to furnish them con. cNow, the gentleman from Kane [Mr. Wheaton] did not offer a reason satisfactory to my mind. I will not arrogate to myself the privilege of saying that he did not give any reasons, but the reasons that he assigned, if they be reasons, did not strike my mind as having any force in them whatever; and confining myself to the question before the Convention, I have not heard a gentleman yet give any reason why these circuits that we have a hall sit in review upon cases which were de cided by him." That is the principle embodied in sec tion eleven. One gentleman upon this floor-I think the gentleman from Brown [Mr. Vande venter] stated thatno State in the Union has any such system. The State of New York, for nearly a quarter of a century, has had precisely this system, of an in termediate court, to determine law ques tions solely, between thelnisiprius court in circuit, and the ultimate court of appeals. It was found in that State to work so well that, in the new Constitution sub mitted to the people by the Convention held a year ago, the judiciary article em bracing the same system, was the only part of that Constitution adopted by the people of that State. In the neighboring State of Missouri, the same system prevails, and has pre vailed for a number of years, and the judges, which assimilate to our circuit judges, hold at least once a year a general term, for the hearing of law questions solely. In the State of Ohio, as suggested by the gentleman from Cook [Mr. Antho ny], there is the same system. It is the poor man's court. It saves the poor man the vast expense of taking cases from the circuit to the supreme court, and every lawyer upon this floor, and every person who has been a party liti gant, knows the immense expense now required in this State to get a case from the circuit to the supreme court. If there should be a court sitting in each county, where the record is, it would save the ex. pense of copying records, copying bills of exceptions, printing records and print ing bills of exceptions, while judges could sit, and having the records before them, de termine the law questions. It would save the expense that is now incurred in tak ing cases to the supreme court, for the determination of these questions, and, in most cases, I venture to affirm, the parties would be satisfied (after having had the determination of one judge at nisi prius) with the determination by his three or more associates, of any law question that arose Jn the progress of the trial; besides, the supreme court would be saved a vast number of cases that now occupy their time, a great number of which never should go to that court at all. As wvas suggested by the gentleman from Tazewell [Mr. M/erriam], such a court would save a vast amount of time. It takes a year, and sometimes more than a year, to get the determination of the supreme court, on cases carried up to that court. I have a case in my recollection where a large verdict was obtained against a corporation, which said it would pay them better to appeal to the supreme court, and get a year's time: even if the judgment was confirmed than to pay the judgment; because, d'~ring that year they would hase to pay only six per cent. interest on the judgment, while money was worth ten per cent., or more. Such has been the necessary delay in the supreme court, ill determining the cases of those who obtain judgments, that they have to wait a yrear or more before they cnget their judgments confirmed and get their money upon them. I did not intend to make a speech, and trill say nothing further. If this amendment is in order, I now offer it;* if not, 1 will offer it at the properstime. established here, should in the future be wiped out, these large circuits maintain ed and created, and one or two or three or four, or any number of judges be elected in these large circuits. I expressly stated on Saturday that if any gentleman could give some reason for abolishing the small circuits, and pro viding for the election of a number of judges in a large circuit, I would acqui esce in, and vote for it, if I could appre ciate the reason. So far as the appellate courts are concerned, 1 said nothing about them, though I voted to strike it out. I will admit that the appellate system has been carried on in New York and Missouri and other States. It may be a good system. It may contribute to the ends of justice. It may save litigants an immense amount of money, but every gentleman on this floor who is a lawyer knows full well that these appellate courts will be expensive. We cannot try any case without at least a bill of exceptions, because the applicability of an instruc tion cannot be discovered unless we know what the evidence was in the case. One great objection I have to the ap pellate court is that it will not settle the law. It- will not tend to tender the judiciary any more stable or certain, be cause if two or three circuit judges, sit ting in bane, overrule or reverse some other circuit judge's decision, it does not settle the matter. It is not authoritative in any other case. We have eventually to go the supreme court before getting an authoritative adjudication of the law, so that the parties will incur the expense of the appellate court, and then be com pelled to go before the supreme court and thus incur additional expense. If the appellate court made a finality of the matter, if one could not go to the supreme court and the law was settled, I might advocate it, because I have Do doubt that three circuit judges in many cases sitting in bane will render as good a decision as our own supreme court. A supreme court, as has been said, is composed simply of circuit judges elevated to that position, and when three or fbur or five circuit judges determine a case, I regard that as a correct determination of the law —but we do not know that that will end litigation. We cannot rely upon it, because eventually the supreme court -- the court of last resort —may adjudicate the case differently, and then why the necessity of going into a court where we will be at sea, when we have a decision rendered? It is for this reason principally that I opposed this section eleven. Mr. CHURCH. Mr. President: I presume that the reasons whny the friends of those two sections did not, last week, when the motion was made to strike out section eleven, present their reasons ia favor of those sections were because the two propositions had been very thor. oughly considered and discussed in Commlittee of the Whole, after having received very full consideration by the Judiciary Committee. Their being stricken out last week, I did not suppose was by reason of the change of sentiment on the part of any gentleman in the Convention, for I presumed that their minds remained the same as they were when it was under discussion in the Committee of the Whole. But, it has unfortunately been the case during a large portion of the deliberations of this Convention, that CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, -MONDAY, 1452 A:I 5 80 EAE ~ RCEIG.15 hereafter be adopted as a practice for the settlement of these issues, but they should be disposed of out of term time, and thus save a great amount of time for the consideration of questions immediately and practically connected with matters on trial. Sir, the expense of litigation-the ex pense of the system of justice-is not so much the salary of the judges. The attendance ofjurors, of bailiffs-all the other attendance which might be avoided if these discussions at the trial terms were dispensed with-discussions which as it is in the experience of every one, continue from d'-y to day, previous to the trial of the issue, when the issue can be tried by tilejury. There is a necessity that these issues and questions of law should be determined out of term time, or else, as in the State of New York, should be settled by a court of law of appellate power and jurisdiction. Of course I would not attempt to point out what kind of provisions are to be made fe)r each occasion in the future. It is our sphere simply to lay the foundation of law and leave this Constitution in such a shape that the occasions, as they arise for modification and improvement, may be met by the lawmaking power, so as to relieve the litigant from delay and to secure decisions at as early a day and at as cheap a rate as possible, to satisfy all the requirements of justice. And have we not been humiliated sometimes by being compelled either to submit to the grosscst outrages in decisions, take the case to the supreme court at our own expense, or else advise expense on our clients, which, perhaps, the case would not justify? Appellate courts that would try the case on the record would be sufficient, and we would not be concluded by them. Though this does not increase the public expense at all, it very much lessens the expense to litigants, who have still the supreme court open to them if they feel aggrieved. There is another saving of expense. Is it not true that the reports of this State have become almost a burden to the State and bar-one-half or more of the decisions there reported involving questions of law that are not new, but have been settled as long as the common law has had a written being, or means by which its provisions could be communicated, by reports. from one to another? The publication of these reports creates a great expense both to the State and bar. Onehalf or more of the cases that now go to the supreme court, would, I believe, not reach the supreme court. Our reports would be simply of mooted questions not before decided, and upon which the addiotional judges could bestow their ability and learning, their conclusions, the reports of which could be afforded by the bar and abpeople. I did not believe, when section eleven was stricken out, that that action would be adhered to. It was not then discussed. No reasons were given why it should be retained, as stated by the gentleman from Brown [Mr. Vandeventer]. The friends of the measure supposed those reasons were understood. I expected there would be a reconsideration, and that section, as well as this, would be preserved; that when this section was reached, the question would arise, and a compromise would the numbers in attendance during the consideration of questions in the Committee of the Whole has been so uncertain and so irregular, that there has been great uncertainty as to what would be the vote in theConvention, on a proposition that had been agreed upon in Committee of the Whole. Now, sir, when this proposition was up in Committee of the Whole, the number of members in attendance, though perhaps as large as now, were very differenly minded, evidently. Members have returned, who were not here then, and others are not now here, who were then present. The gentleman from Brown [Mr. Vandeventer] was not perhaps here when the question of the appellate intermediate courts was discussed. This is a question that received very extensive and serious consideration by the lamented Judge Einmerson. I believe that there was no question connected with the judicial organization of the State in which he felt so vital an inter est, and in which he could see so great a good arising to the State. In discussing these questions, there was no necessary connection between section eleven and section fifteen. As early as 1846, and perhaps as early as 1821, il the State of New York, that whole State was divided into eight circuits, in each of which there were four judges. The same system has been adopted in various other States. We can see very great reasons for the election of several judges in the same circuit. They were developed in the discussion, last week, of the question of the size an-d number of the circuits, when it wasstated that in some circuits the judges could not perform the work, while in other circuits of twice the population, one judge could easily do the Business in less than half the weeks of the year. Now, by combining these four or five judges in the samiie circuit, I have no doubt the business could be greatly facilitated by the proper distribution of the labors of the judges, bringing appellate rel.ef home to the doors of the litigant, -and thereby saving the great expense of an appeal to the supreme court. It would bring, with proper legislation or rules, the appellate jurisdiction to the very county, and into the very court house, where the case was originally tried, in nisi prius, and where a review of the case could be had without the expense of printing, or even copying the record. It could be reviewed upon the same record as tried in the court below. But, sir, further than this, I look forward to a timne when one very fatal policy which has heretofore existed in our j urisprudence, will be abandoned. Antd that is the present method arnd practice of making up issues arnd trying questions of law for nisi prius8 courts durin~g' term timne. Such has alwsays been a practice, and I think I am borne out by the experience of every attorney that a large part of the time of circuit courts is used up in the settlement of isses~t and questions of law, which ought to have been fully settled before the calling of a jury. In the State of New York, my recollection is that issues were never settled at the circuit court. On the contrary, causes never went down until every issue was determined and nothing was really needed except to try the issues by jury. We cannot say in this CovenYXtion what wil 364 I APRIL 25, 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1453 be reached, between what a portion of the Judiciary Committee desired, and those who had doubts as to its propriety, and whether it would be well received by the people-merely leavidg it -where the Gen(,ral Assembly might provide for the introduction of this system. It would have been a fair compromise, and I would have been WilliDg that the provision in section fifteen should be incorporated in this Constitution, and that all circuit judges should be elected in circuits in which fo4-r judges should be elected-leavidg the creation of intermediate courts to bedetermined hereafter by law, if thought proper. Mr. 7UNDERWOOD. Mr. President The PRESIDENT. Wlll the gentleman allow the Chair to state that the question on section eleven was di:sposed of by the action of the Convention strikir,g it out, and that question can only be r(,glilarly brought before the Convention on a motion to reconsider. Of course it is incidentally involved in section fifteen; still, if it is desired to fully and effectively reach the question on section eleVeD, there should be a motion to reconsider. iqr. TJNDERWOOD. Mr. President: Like most of the, members of the JudiIciary Committee, I despair iaow of being able to secure a judiciary article that will meet the wishes and interests of the people of the State. The old article is exceedidgly flexible in its character. The Legislature was allowed to establish cou,nty courts with such jurisdiction as the local demands may warrant. It allowed city courts Only uniform in the particular city where the courts are established to meet their wants. It allowed justices of the peace to have jurisdiction in different parts of the State for different amounts. It was hoped by that committee that we could adopt a system susceptible of bei.Dg molded to meet the various local wants of the people of the State, anl at the stine time avoid a very great evil -wadt Of uniformity of organizatiOD, and jurisdiction and rules of practice, so far as prescribed by the Legislature, in courts of the same class. But, sir, this article of the, Judiciary Committee has been mutilated and emasculated. A leg has been,,awn off, an arm has been cut off, an ear has been bit off, a, tooth has been knocked in and an e e 1451 CONSTITUTIONAL CONYENTION MONDAY, that it should be placed in such a condition that the Legislature, if they find that it is necessary and should hereafter be required by the people of this State, may in their wisdom inaugurate that system. It is for these reasons that I now move a reconsideration of the vote by which sec tion eleven was stricken out. Mr. ALLEN, of Crawford. Mr. Presi dent: I hope, sir, that the vote striking out section eleven, will be reconsidered. I am satisfied, upon reflection, that it is a wholesome prov;sion. Gentlemen who have been for any con*siderable length of time at the bar, will bear me witness when I say, that appeals are often taken from the circuit courts to the supreme court, involving heavy ex penditures that ought n6t to be incurred. I suppose that in one half the cases that are appealed, from the circuit to the su. preme court, parties taking the appeal discover before the case is finally submitted to the supreme court, but too late to avert the necessary expense of making copies of the record, and printing of abstracts and briefs, that the law of the case is against them. This intermediate court will relieve parties litigant to a very great extent, in my judgment, from unnecessary expense. I hope, therefore, that the vote by which this section was stricken out by the Convention, will be reconsidered. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the motion to ree nsider. Mr. WELLS. Mr. President: I regret that the motion to reconsider is favored by gentlemen of ability. I cannot regard this measure as anything else than another toll-gate on the road to justice, another obstacle in the way of the suit of the poor man for justice, another place where the lawyer may impose fees upon his client, and the poet sing of the law's delay. This is an intermediate court of very inferior jurisdiction, which will inevitably be controlled to a large extent, by the decisions of the court below it, and will, in its turn, to a large extent, control the decisions of the supreme court. It is inevitably, to a considerable extent, under the ibifluence of the circuit court that decided the case below, and in its turn will inevitably influence decisions of the supreme court, and furnish a sliding scale or inclined plane by which the decisions of the circuit court will inevitably be confirmed, whether right or wrong, in the supreme court.That will inevitably be its tendency. That has been its working in other States, where it has been found to o perate inconveniently, and to be nothing more or less than an entering wedge by which the circuit court decisions slip through the supreme court. The court of appeals in New York is entirely different. It is a court above the supreme court. Cases go from the su r preme court to the court of appeals. Cases do not go to the court of appeals except from the supreme court. IsMr. WHEATON. I will say, Mr. President, to the gentleman from Peoria [Mr. Wells], that the supreme court is the supreme court in New York. Theys have no other circuit court. Mr. WELLS. - he supreme court in New York, Mr. President, is the supreme court, and the court of appeals is the court of appeals. I believe the laws of New York say so, and they know as well as the gentleman from Kane [Mr. Wheaton]. [Laughter.] a d t 8 s e d t s s 0 T, n e y c e s 0 r r e I I CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION MO-;DA-T, 1451 The only reason why this court should be adopted is that the lawyers may have an opportunity to have the law of their cases passed upon; that the law may be det,-rmiiied without keepjing the jury in waiting, while the court is pronouncing upon law cases. That is the easiest thing possible. in the circuit where I live, the court has a session called the "law week," wherein all cases relating to the law are determined, there being uo jury in atten(lauce; aid, one day, or half a day, of each week, there is adotlier opportunity given for the settlement of motiods, pleadings, and all law questions that arise in the case, without a jury being in WaitiDg. That is uot the practice in some circuits, I know, but, unler the present sy,,-telD, that can readily be accomplished wit,hout the intervention of this court. It is true, as the gentleman from St. Clair [iNIr. UDderwood] forcibly and elegantly kaid, that the old systuni appears liere with one leg sawn off, and a wooden leg in its place, arid an eye gouged out, and a glass one in its place, and in additio,..-I to that, there is an immense hump on its back, and with that, it is attemptiDg to crawl througli, like a camel t-brotfgh the eye of a iieedle. It is open to all these objections. I think the return of this section will be another great hump on the back of the camel, to prevent its going through an examination by the people. I believe a judicial system should be as simple'as it is possible for it to be, and .that all these provisions and restrictions with which we have hampered it are so much dead weight for it to carry. I believe that i, we had adopted the provisions -of the old Constitution with an increase of judges' pay, we should have accomplislied all that the people expected, instead of providing a!l these embarrassin!z aiid clumsy provisions Low attei-npted to be incorporated in this svstem. I regard this section eleven, which was stricken out, as but a weight, as but an excresence, as but an iincunibrance to the judicial t4ystem of the State. If the people desire such athidg, why not allow it to be incorporated by the Legislature; make the article flexible, and -f the people want this court, allc.w the Legislature to give it to them, but do not let us force these judges performing their d Lities in a sort of rotary manner, so that all the people of the district would get th , advantage of the good judges as well as the bad ones. Every experienced practitioner has felt the evil Of electing a new judge with his old clients before him, with his old cases before him, one party to the case probably failing to get a fair trial, the people being subject to cbadges of venue and expense Of te.kidg -witnesses to distant parts of the circuit. Every lawyer has seen this evil, and we hoped that this provision would be adoptec'-L in order to do away with it. But that is also sought .to be'stricken out now by the motion pendidg. It was als,,) hoped by many of us in the Judiciary Committee, that we could dimiiiisli the number of circuit judges by about half, if we could give county courts, in the larger counties, jurisdiction over cases up to five hundred dollars, and of appeal cases. But it seems from the action of'the Convention, that they are not willing to allow larger counties this poor privilege of having their cases determined by a tribuiat of their own ChOOSiDg, even if thpy should vote to have this increased jurisdiction in order that their business might be dispatched satisfactorily to themselves, and in a manner which would not prejudice other couii'ties, which might desire to, continue the old system of county courts, with the jurisdiction as it now exists. Well, sir, if this process of emasculation is to go OD, all'the favor that the .people I represent will ask is. that they may be allowed to vote distinctly on the judiciary article, so that we may have such courts as our necessities require. We have in East St. Louis, a city court, that is hainging by the eye lids, which is ,of vast use7to the people, and which, un-,der the present Constitution, we may be -able to keep. That Constitution allows county courts, with such jurisdiction as the General Assembly sees proper to establish, all over the State. But we will never get relief under that, for a very large majority of counties are small counties, ttiat will forever deprive larger counties, by general law, of the necessary jurisdiction. If the Convention go on in this course, to de rive us of our ancient ri hts liber APRIL 5, 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1455 T So the motion of Mr. Sedgeick to re. - consider the vote by which sectioneleven was stricken out, was agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon striking out section eleven, relating ,o appellate courts. cnlr. HAINES, of Cook. Mr. Presi dent: Has it gone beyond where it is proper to move a reconsideration of the actioa of the Convention by which the number of supreme judges was fixed? The PRESIDENT. It is not too late. Mr. HAINES, of Cook. MIr. Presi. dent: Then I give notice, if the vote prevails upon the adoption of section eleven, I will move a reconsideration of the vote by which the number of supreme judges was fixed at seven. I am op posed,with seven supreme judges, to this appellate court, because, as I said before, we place a dam between the supreme court and the lower court, by which we obstruct the right of litigants to appeal directly to the supreme court. Men of moderate means, poor men, have not the means to go through this quantity of machinery of lower and intermediate courts to the supreme court. And, if we are to retain the section as it is, then we have provided, in section two, for too nmany supreme judges. Mr. ANTHONY. Mr. President: I rise to a point of order. There is a question pelidi,lg. The PRESIDENT. Upon the motion to strike out; but the Chair regards the argument of the gentleman as within proper limits. He is giving reasons why the Convention should not strike out the section. Mr. HAINES, of Cook. When this constitutional body assembled here, it was for the relief of the people of the Statte of Illinois. It is well known, sir, that we are borne down by taxes, that the life-blood of the people is being exhausted in the payment of salaries, and the expenses of officers, and their adjuncts and surroundings, and that they are looking to us for relief —to us to lighten their burdens. As I have said from day to day before, on this floor, instead of multiplying officers we should decrease them. We should then, leave the Constitution so elastic, that the Legislature may provide for necessary occasions as they rise. As I understand it., to the extent we place nno limits upon the Legislature, they may do, what they please. And, why put this into our Constitution when it is competent for the Legislature to do everything we propose to do, in case in time it shall prove to be necessary? Iam opposed to the adoption of this section eleven. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon striking out section eleven. The yeas anad nays were ordered, and beins taken, resulted-yeas, 23; nays, 35 - as follows:' l art, Harwood, Hay, Hayes, Hildrup, King, Merriam, Moore, Parks, Perley, ABSENT, OR NOT VOTING. Atkins, Goodell, Tincher, Bromwell, Hainesof L'k, Truesdale, Brown, Hanna, Wall, Bryan, McDowell, Washburn, Buxton, Medill, Wetedling, Coolbaugh, Pillsbury, Wilson, Eldredge, Ross, Wright, English, Skinner, Mr. President-25. Gamble, So the motion to strike out section eleven was not agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is on the adoption of section eleven, and it will be declared adopted. Mr. HAINES, of Cook. Mr. President: I move to reconsider the vote by which this Convention adopted section two of the article under consideration. The PRESIDENT. The Chair will state that bv the journal it appears that the gentlemlan from Cook [rNIR. Haines] did not vote with the majority, and the motion to reconsider, therefore, cannot be entertained. Mr. NEECE. Mr. President: I move to reconsider. Mr. MERRIAM. I move to lay that motion on the table. Mr. UNDERWOOD. Mr. President: I submit a question of order. Was not that vote taken too long back to be now reconsidered.? The PRESIDENT. The Chair has consulted the journal and finds that the action of the Convention was on Friday, and two business days have not, therefore, intervened. The motion is in order. The question beilig on the motion to lay on the table the motion to reconsider section two, the yeas and nays were ordered, and, being taken, resulted-yeas, 44, nays, 13-as follows: To prevent all the annoyances which re sult to litigrants by long protracted de lays, it is prpose to create this cort. It is well known that our supreme courts are burdened with cases where oniv questions of fact are involved. These cases should stop in the appellate courts. Our reports should not be encumbered with them, and the bar and t':e courts should not be compelled to overhaul them, as often as they desire to investi gate a question. The establishment of appellate courts creates no new offices, and does not in crease-the expense of litigation. It is simplv an intermediate tribunal for the benefit (X1 litigants at a very trifling cast indeed-simply a clerk's fee for docketingthe case, aud entering up the judgmenjt. The court is to be held in the county where the cases were originally heard. I am in favor of this court because it secures cheap and speedy justice to the litigant by bringing it to his door. I am in favor of it, because the convenience and safety of the people demand it, and because I think it perfects our judicial svstem. Mr. CUMMI, iNGS. I rise to a point of order. The Convention having passed upon section eleven, and having under consideration section fifteen, and having entertained the motion to strike out that section, tha-t is the first motion in order, and should be considered. The PRESI1DENT. There is an express rule of the Convention on the qties. tion by which the motioni to reconsider, if it shall be made within two business days, of the disposition of a question, takes precedence of every question ex cept a motion to adjourn; and it is prop er when a motion t, reconsider is made, that it, should be debated and disposed of, except when the Convention is acting under the operation of the previous qtiestion, when it is the duty of the Chair to enter the motion to reconsider on the journals, and dispose of it after the main question shall have been put. The question is upon the motion to re consider the action of the Convention by which section eleven was stricken out. The yeas and nays were ordered, and being taken, resulted —yeas, 36; nays, 21 -as follows: Sharp, Sherrill, Snyder, Springer, Sutherland, Tubbs, Turner, Underwood, Varideventer, Wagner, Wait, Wells, Wheaton, Whiting-44. LEeAS. Allen of Alex,Goodhue Allen of Cr'fd,lHart. Anthony, Harwood, Anderson, Hay, Bayne, Yiildrup, Benjamin, King Browning, Merriam, Cameron, Moore Cary, Parks, Church, Perley, Cody, Peirce, Craig, Poage, Cross, Robin.son, Ellis, Seholfield, Fuller, Sedgwick, YrntS. Allen of Alex.Cross, Allen of Cr'lfd.,Fuller, Anthotny, Goodhue, Archer, Hart, Bayiie, Harwood, Benijamin, Hay, Browning, Haves, Cameron, Hildrup, Cary, King, Ch arch, Merriam, Cody, Moore, Craig, Parks, Fox, Rice, Haines of C'ok,Snyder, Hankins, Tubbs, McCoy, Turner, Neece, Vandeventer, Parker, Wait, Peirce, Wells —21. ABSENT, OR NOT VOTING. Atkins, Goodell, Tineber, Bromwell, HainesofLake,Truesdale, Brown, Hanna, Wall, Bi-yaLn, McDowell, Washburn, Buxton, Medill, Wendling, Coolbaugh, Pillsbury, Wilson, Eldredge, Rice, Wright, English, Ross, Mr. President-26. Gamble, Skinner, So the motion of Mr. Merriam to lay on the table the motion of Mr. Haines of Cook to reconsider section two was agreed to..0 BSENT. OR NOT VOTING. Goodell, Tr-uesdale, HBines of L'ke,W'.gner, Htanna, Wall, McDowell, Washburn, Medill, Wendling, Pillsbury, Wilson, Ross, Wright, Skinner, Mr. President-26. Tincher,.: -, I I t t s i APRTL 25, 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1455 Ant,hony, Archer, Bayne, BeDjam!D, Browning, Carv. glitch, Cody,' Craig, Cross, Scholfield, Sedgwick, Stiarp, Sheri-ill, Bpi-inger, Sutlierland, L'iiderwood, Wheaton, Whiting. Perley, Poage, Robinson, Scholtield, Sedgwick, Sharp, Sherrill, Sprit,iger, Butlierldnd, Underwood, Wheaton, Whiting-36. NA.YS. Forman, Hayes, Fox, mco-i Hain'es of Colk, Neeci, HankiDs, Parker-13. Abbott, Archer, Bowman, Climmiiigs, Dement, NAYS. Abbott, Andert3on, Bowman, Cummiugs, Dement, Ellif;, Forman, YEA.S. Abbott, Anderson, Bowman, Cameron, Cuiiimillgs, Detnent, Ellis, Forman, Fox, Snyder, 11 aines ofCook,Tut)bs,' Htitikinf3, T -r McCoy, Vwndevtenter, Neece;' Wagner, Pa.rker, Wait, Peirce, Wells-23. Rice, Atkins, Broinwell, Brown, Bryan, Buxton, Coolhaugh, Eldredge, English, C,amble, lqA-6YS. Alleii, of Alx.,Fuller. Allen, of Crfd.,Goodh-ue, pofige, Roinion, 1456 CONSTJT(1TIOAL ()OYENTJO MoRAY, He says it has become manifest from the debates of this Convention and the investigations of the question, that in some circuits men have more than they can do, while in adjoining circuits judges have much less than they could do, and that by combinling, they, under an arrange:ment of their terms, the timue of holding courts, can so distribute the labor of the bench as to nmake it fall more equally upon them all. I submit, that in the provisions which we havealready adopted, authorizing the Legislature to form circuits, with reference to territory and business as well as population, that difficulty can be avoided in the arrangement of circuits. under that provision. Besides, I shall not conceal the fear I have that, in time of high political excitemment, (I do not think that state of feeliLn g exists in the State at this time which i authorizes that fear; but it has existed in the past, and may exist in the future), these judicial circuits may be arranged, not with a view to despatch business, not with a view of the convenience of circuits, but with a view of getting a control on the part of one party or the other of the circuit court. I do not believe that at present there is anything to apprehend fiom such a source as this, but the time has been and thQ time may be again when these influences may control the Legislature in the reorganization of the circuits of our State; and for this reason I am in favor of striking out this section. We do not need it in order to secure e-fficient working of section eleven in this intermediate court. And I confess that the resons assigned by gentlemen upon this floor, so far as I have been able to hear them, have not satisfied my mind that we ought to confer any such power upon the Legistature of this State. Mr. HAY. Mr. President: I believe the gentleman from Crawford [Mr. Allen] was not present when the discussions in the Committee of the Whole were had upon this judiciary article. Had he been present I have no doubt that with the same liberality of view which characterizes his support of the eleventh rection, we should have had his support on this fifteenth section, because they are both adjuncts of the same system of improvement sought to be inaugurated; and although it is true that they may exist independent of each other, yet I consider them both necessary improvements. tINow, sir, I confess that when this syStem of courts was introduced to the attention of this Convention, in the early part of this session, by numerous instructions to the Judicary Committee, -and when afterwards one of the most intelligent, experienced and able members of that committee, the late Judge Emmerson, called the attention of the special committee to the improvements sought to be inaugurated by the eleventh and fifteenth sections, I had some prejudice against this new system sought to be inaugurated. It was contrary to my life-time habits as a lawyer. I had known no other system of the administration of justice, than the system in use under our existing Constitution. It was contrary to my old habits, and we all know the force of mere habits in framing h our impressions about these things. eBut, sir, when the matter was discussed fully, and I had had time for reflection over the matter, and had considered the 1456 CONSTIT (JTIONAL CONVENTION MONDA.Y? The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the fit'teentli section, and the motion to strike out. Mr. ALLEN, of Crawford. Mr. President: I was not Dresent wnen this section was consideredin Committee of the Whole, nor was I present when the amendments of the Committee of the Whole were adopted in Convention. I confess, sir, that I feel very much iuclined to vote to gtrike out this section, and with the indulgence of the Convention, I will very briefly state my reasons for it. We have, I think, very properly incor. porated the eleventh section in this article, but I have failed yet to hear reasons sufficient to satisfy me that we ought to adopt this fifteenth section. My opposition to it is that I can see no particular good that will result by combining two, three or more circuits of tho State together, so as to enable the j Lidges within that diztrict to perform circuit duty under any arradgemcht that they may make. It is said, sir, that it will operate favorably in executidg this provision in relatiori to intermediate courts. I think it will not, sir. It will be recollected that ,section eleven provides that the judge presiding in the circuit court shall not sit in this intermediate court, in the rereview of cases tried before him. I think myself that these j ud oes of the intermediate court ought to be stripped of those local influences that must lilcessarily surround a circuit judge in the dischar-e of the duties of his office. Now,,,uppose we create larger circuits, includix)g three or four judges. Those judges will,of course, expect to sit in the trial of appeals from the circuit court. We compel them to sit on the trial of these appeals, where they wit'. be sub cted to the same influences, if iuflaences are used, of local measures, to control their judgment. Judges, like everybody else, are more or less affected by local influences with which they are surrounded. If I am permitted to say it, they are human, like, ot,h-er men, and desire to reiider themselves as acceptable as possiblcto the constituency that elected them originally, and if thev are ambitious for a retention of their places upon the be.-,ch, must necessarily be swerved to some extent by the consideration of retainidg that good opinion. It seen-is to defects, iiconvenieuce and absolute evils that did exist under our prest,iat,ystem of organization of circuit courts, I deliberately came to the conclusion that it would be a vast itnprovemelt upon our system; and haviii- come to that conclusiod, after much deliberation and refleCtiOD, and the Committee of the Whole having also come to'the same COnCIUSiOD, when this matter was fully discussed before tl-iem, I hope we will not now go back upon that action. There are, as the gentleman from St. Clair [Mr. Underwood] has said, many very grave considerations that should induce us to retain this provision. I regard it, if anythidg, Of more importance than the principle embodied in the eleventh sectiOD. I regard it as a great eVil-tlliS CODfinii3g the election of circuit judges to a sit,gle circuit. We have all experiet ced the evils that have grown up under that system, and KDOW that it is subject to difficulties from which we would be relieved, by the introduction of this system. It is true, sir, as —,tated by the gentleman from St. Clair [Nlr. Underwood] that, when a'udge who has loii,, been a praCtiCiD- lawer in his circuit, is, on account of his ability and experience, promoted to the bench, he has so surrounded himself with associations and with iDflUeuces that go with him upon the bench, that if be is codflned to the administration of justice within the limited territory in which he has grown up, and where he has formed his personal, social and professional connections with the people and with the clients and lawyers who litigate within that limited territory, it is impos-sible'for him to disembarrass himself entirely from the i-DflueDce of those associations when he uddertakes to a(Imini:,ter justice as a judge within that limited territory. Ai,d we have all experienced the great cost and inconvenience that has resulted from putting a lawyer who has had au eXtCDsive practice in a circuit, upon the bedch under such circumstances. Now, sir, this matter of administering justice is a little different from any other portion of our political system. When we send a man to the Legislature, we want to send a man who is best acquainted, who is more essentially identified, mo;7e APRIL 25, 1870 DEBATES AND FROCEEDINGS. 1457 perience of sister States that they do not regret adopting the system and do not abandon it? It has been objected that this system would give the Legislature more power for "gerrymande injg" the State for politi cal purposes. I do not see, sir, that the L Legislature would have any more power. to "gerrymander" under one system than under the other. I think this diminishes their power, if anything, because that gives them three chances to exercise the power, where this gives but one. But, sir, under this system, circuits are formed to suit the convenience of lawyers, just as under any other system. Mr. CUIMMINGS. Mr. President: I desire to ask the gentleman from Sangamon [Mr. Hay], if this section confers power upon the Legislature to elect all the judges upon one general ticket? iMr. HAY. I understand, Mr. President, that it provides only for the election of judges in the districts which they represent-not upon a general ticket through out the State. Now, sir, as I was going to remark, I do not apprehend that the objections anticipated, should have any particular fo,rce with this Convention, because they do not operate upon the Legislature in fixing our single circuits, and they would have the same power, if they were so disposed, with regard to the single circuits, as under this system. I hope, sir, the door will not be closed to the introduction of this improvemrent, if the Legislature should see fit to adopt it. I doubt, indeed, very much whether the Legislature will ever do it. I think it doubtful, because there will be so many of them come here with the same prejudices that I came to this Convention with; but Ihope the door will not be closed to the improvement, if it should be thought necessary. Mr. TURNER. Mr. President: I de o not see what relation the fifteenth s ection bears to the eleventh section, which we have ust restored. I think we made a mistake in restoring the eleventh sec e tion. In that, however, I may be mistaken. My opinion is that the intermediate appellate court is purely a lawyer's court-a mere toll-gate, as was expressed by the gentleman from Peoria [Mr. Wells], on the way to justice, where the lewyers may gather toll. But the Convention disagreed with me, and I shallt not oppose the section further, because it was agreed to in' the original report of the Judiciary Committee. But, sir, the more I reflect upon thiscf fifteenth section, the more I am satisfied that it may lead to pernicious'results. I observe that we have adopted in the fiorty seventh section the folIo wing language: All offiers provided for in this article shall hold their offices until their successors shall bcf qualified, afd shall respectively reside in the division, circuit, county or district for wlich they may be elected or appointed I observe, also, that when we had the supreme court article under consideration, the Committee on the Judiciary had recommended that the State should be di a vided into three judicial divisions, in two of which two judges should be elected, acid in ohe, three judges. I observe that when that article or clause was brought before the Committee of the Whole, DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1457 A.PizIL 25, 1870. erate, to go into other portions of that circuit, and allowing somebody who has not been so immediately connected with the neighborhood to come in and adaiinisterjustice. But, sir, there are other reasons, and very potent reasons, why we should permit the Legislature, in its discretion, to adopt such a system. And that reason is increased by the action of this Convention in reference to the limitation that we have placed upon circuits with respect to population. Now, it frequently happens, as has been adverted to in this arument on that question, that the business in a particular circuit, either bv accidental causes, or by the different character of the pursuits of the population, increases more rapidly on the docket than it does in contiguous territory. Now, by throwing three or four circuits together, we, in a great measure, equalize the business within a larce r(2gi on of territory or country covered L)y the territory that three or four judges would cover. Whilst it may be true ttiat in one circuit in that territory the business may be larger, more, absolutely, than a circuit judge can perform, yet,, withiii the adjoining circuit., probably those reasons do not operate which eulargo and ir-,crease the docket to an extent that tliev d,,) in the immediate adjo;ning circuit. By combining these ti.iree or four circuits together, we, in a measure, aggregalle the business within that wli)le territory, and thus equalize and put the business upon three or four judges, enabling the. four to do the'busi.uess of that whole district-to keep up an average. It would average the labor upon the judges, keep up the business better at-id more regularly ttian we could by co,. fliiij,-g the business to one circuit and a s!Dcle j!idge Now, sir, this is one great advantage to be obtaired by the introduction of this system. And there is a further advant!ige. We al' know with these sidgle circuits, lawyers and t'be judges get into a little rut in the, way of doing businessinto Darrow and provincial habits; but, by throwing the circuits too,,ether, we generalize the practice in that division of territory. The rules for the a(iministration of justice and the practice will become better understood and liberalized; there was very great oppisition to the section, on -account of the provision that the judges wci-e to be elected in the,teveral Divisions by general ticket. It was araued, sir, that every particular section I of the State should be permitted to elect i,.s own supreme court justice;- and it was argued with a great deal of force and -very telling efftct, that if the article were chanced ai-id seven election districts were organized, every seventh portion of the State would be enabled to get one of its own people, with whom all were acquainted, on the supreme bench. I find no fault with that; I favored it. Now, sir, why should not the same rule prevail in relation to the election of our circuit judges? A difficulty has been referred to by the entleman - Hay], from Sangamon [Mr that a j ud-e who has been a long time in practice, will, when put upon the bench, find himself embarrassed with cases on the docket upon which be has been counsel, or upon which he has expressed an OpiDion. But, sir, that has always heretofore been obviated by (.allidg tothecircuitaiaeighborijgjudget,o try these particular cases, and it has worked wel 1. There is one difficulty that the gen'uleman has not rc;ferred to-tbat is, that there are scarcely two circuits in the State that have the same rules of practice. They differ more or less in the manrei of conducting their business, and when we have become accustomed to the rules of practice, and the mode of pro. cedure of one judge, we frequently find ourselves embarrassed, if we step over into another circuit to try a case, by dijding a different mode of practice adopted. This thing will inevitably follovr where there is a large circuit of three,, four, five or six judges going around alternately to hold c,-)urt. Each one will have his own peculiar way of doing tiiings-bis own peculiar temperament 1-iis own peculiar mode of presenting t-,ases, or callii-ig cases for trial. All these thidgs are embarraSSiDg. But, sir, so lot,,g as we elect our judiclary-so lodg as we decide that the people shall name a:, d (I(-sigriate who their judges shall be, Ic-t us in all fairness permit them to select men with whom they are acquainted and whose qualifications they know. a ir r 1458 COSTITUTJONAL- COXYEXTJON MoRAY, there will be just 12,000 sinners who will be eternally lost." "Well," said the old lady, "that is better than none. I believe you can stay." It would make it a little better tf it read, "not less than three or more than five," but even that would not meet the difficulty. If there is any propriety whatever in having judges elected, let every judge be elected by his own friends and neigh. bors. [Here the hammer fell]. Mr. CUMMINGS. Mr. President: The objection that I have to this section is predicated upon the same ground as that of the gentleman from Stephenson [Mr. Turner]. Every judge in this State, if this section is adopted, could be elected by general ticket. I do not think the people of the State require it. I think it would be objectionable. I would not say that it would defeat the Constitution-it might be the means of having it adopted, for it is the strongest party measure presented in the judiciary article; and if we are here for partisan purposes, this would be the section, of all others, that the party in power ought to adopt. But if we are here for the general good of the people, outside of party, then this section should be stricken out. That is all there is of it. If the motion to strike out does not prevail, I would like to have it reconstructed, so as to restrict these districts to three judges, to be elected on a general ticket, so that no more than three could be elected for one circuit. It will be placing the judicial power of the State in the hands of the party in power, to, when once placed there, remain as long as the party s hould keep in power. We know that parties would use the power for party purposes; that either party would do it that had that power. I think this section ought to be so framed that neither party can control the judiciary of the State for partisan purposes. By section thirteen, we have districted the State on an average of one hundred theousand inhabitants to a circuit. That enables the people to elect their own circuitjudges. Section fifteen, if adopted, stands in lieu of section thirteen, and enables the Legislature, at one sweep, to wipe out all the circuits of the State, and to elect, upon one general ticket, all the judges of the State, although the gentle man from Sanganmon [Mr. Hay] thinks not. If he wilt examine the wording of this section, to-wit: "three or more" judges, to be elected on a general ticket, he will certainly find the "or more" to mean they can all be elected on a gen - eral ticket. The General Assembly can lm ake the State one district, or divide the State into two or three districts, or any number, so that there shall be not less than three in a circuit. Therefore, I hope the motion to strike out wi'l prevail. Mr. BAYNE. Mr. President: I hope the motion to strike out will prevaiL. I arn satisfied with the judiciary report so far as it has been adopted in Convention, but I am opposed to putting two or three or mo're districts together, and in order to save the time of the Convention, and the State the expense of publishing my speech, I will adopt the speech of the gentleman from Stephenson [Mr. Turner], with the exception of the anecdote he tfold about the preacher. [Laughter.] I want that left out of mine; and I move Abbott, Forman, Sharp, Allen of Cr'fd.,Fox, Snyder, Archer, Haines of CookSuthlerland, Bayn e, Hankins, Tulner, Bowman, M,IcCoy, Vandeventer, Cameron, bleece, Wagner, Cummings, Parker, Wait, Demnent, Rice, Wells-26. Ellis, Scholfield, NAYS. Harwood, Hay, Hayes, Hildrup, King, Merriam, Moore, Parks, Perley, But, sir, there is another objection to this section which, to mly mind, i s over whelming, and as long as it remains in its present shape, I cannot support it. I think that I am as liberal in my views and as charitable as most men are, but I have had some experience and some ob servation in regard to what political par ties will do, and my experience and ob servation lead my mind to the conclusion, that any party having a decided balance of power in their hands, will do all they can to place their party friends in office, and keep them there. We all concede the fact, that at the present day the State of Illinois is in the hands of a party that has ample power to do what it will. That party may not be in power six years hence. Another party may be. If another party has the power, they will do perhaps precisely what this party will do. They will organize judi cial districtsin such a manner as to give the m,ijority of the judgeships, if not the whole of them, to their political friends, and partisans of their own. Let us see how the clause is framed. It provides that The General Assembly may divide the State into judicial circuits, of greater population and territory, in lieu of the circuits provided for in section thirteen, and provide for the election therein, severally, by the electors thereof, bygeneral ticket, of three or more judges. Now, if it were confined to three judg es, the evil might not be so great. But if the General Assembly have the power to make a circuit containing three judg es, they have the power to make a circuit containing fifteen judges, or they mav make one containing twenty judges, and another containing teni judges. Now, it need not be said here that a party will not do this thing, because I say, Mr. President, there is nothing under the sun that a party will not do in order to re'ain power. Suppose the General Assembly, being ove rwhelmingly republi can, or overwhelmingly democratic, should at a m(ement when they are strong and have the power to do it-the terms of these judges lasting six years, without change-should divide our State into two judicial circuits, or three judicial circuits -could they not so "gerrymander " the State as to secure the election of all the judges upon a party ticket, and thus secure for their political friends six years of official life? Mr. UNDERWOOD. Mr. President: If the gentleman will allow me to inter rupt him, I will ask him if be would be in favor of an amendment striking out "three or mere," and inserting "'no; less than three or more than five." M~r. TURNER. Well, that would make it better. That would be placing them very much in the situation the old lady was in when the universalist preacher called to see her and wanted to stay all night. She had heard that he was a universalist, and so asked him if all men were to be saved. He said they were, and she refused to let him stay. Soume time afterward, he happened along there when it was very cold and rainy, and sot knowing where else he could get 'shelter, he went and asked for lodging the second timue. The old lady said once more that she could not keep a universalist at her houses "'Madamn," said the preacher, "'my views have undergone a .slight change since I last saw tyou. I Th1ink that on the great day of judgment ABSENT, OR NOT VOTINGf. Allen of Alex.,Eldredge, Skinner, Anderson, English, Springer, Atkins, Gamuble, Tinchefr Bromwell, Goodell, Tr uesdale, Brown, Haines of LakeWall, Bryan, Hanna Washburn, B uxton, McDowell, Wend ling, Car y, Mledill, Wilson, Coolbaagh, Pillsbury, Wright, Craig, Ross, Mr. President-30. So the motion to-strike out section fifteen, was not agreed to. Mr. HkY. Mlr. President: I move to amend the section, by makin:g it read as follows: "of not less than three nor more than five." Mr. ICHURCH. Mr. President: I would suggest to the gentleman whether four would not be a better number than five. The odd number would be inconvenient. Mr. HAY. Mr. President: I accept the amendment to make it read, "not less than three, nor more than four." Mr. TURNER. Mr. President: Of courseI am opposed to the measure, but if we are to have any number, let us have it, "not less than three, nor more than five;" because then if the people should ever adopt minority representation, there will be a fair chance for all parties to have a fair distribution of the officers, ,no matter what the strength of the parties may be. There is a difference between "five" and "four." If the parties should be divided into republican and democrat (which I do not suppose they will be), then one party would get three, and the other would probably get two. My friend from M3Icenry [Mr. Church] ls an old fox. He sees plainly, as does everybody, that if the minority system should be adopted, and four be the number to elect, the majority would be likely to get '-three," and the minority "one." Therefore, I think the amendment should stand as proposed by the gentleman from St. Clair [MVlr. Underwood]. Mr. CHIURCH. I disavow any such intention. I am obliged to the gentleman from Stephenson [oAr. Turner] for attributing such a degree of shrewdness to 1458 CONSTITUTIONAL- CONVENTION -)fONDAY) the previous question upon the motion to strike out. Mr. HkY. lvfr. Prsident: I think the section is ol)jectionable in respect to ,ts not limiting the number to be elected. The motion for the previous question was agreed to, aijd the main question ordered. The question being on the motion to strike out the section The yeas and inays were ordered, and, t)ei.ug taken, resulted-yeas, 26; nays, 27-as follows: YEAS. Anthony, Benjamin, Browning, Church, Cody, Cross, Fuller, Goodhue, Hart, Peirce, Poage, Robins Sedgw 01, i 11 lieri-ill, ubb,s, Unde,t-wood, Wlicaton, Whiting-L27. APRIL 25, 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1459 fix the number definitely at four. I will accept the amendment suggested. Mr. HAYES. Mr. President: I understood the previous question was moved by the gentleman firom Cook [Mr. Cameron.] The PRESIDENI'. The Chair understood the motion to apply only to his amendment. If the gentleman meant to apply the motion for the previous question to the whole question, the Chair will put it. Mr. CARY. Mr. President: The gentleman from Cook [Mr. Cameron] moved an amendment with reference to minority representation, and added upon that, "I move the previous question." The PRESIDENT. The Chair understood the gentleman from Cook [Mr. Cameron] to limit his motion for theprevious question to his amendment-as it was his right to do. Therefore the Chair will regard the motion for the previous question as dependent upon the nmotion of tie gentleman from Sangamon [Mr. Hay], who moves now that the number "four" be inserted in place of "three or more judges," and upon that the previous que)tion has been moved. Mr. TURNER. Mr. President: What effect will that have upon the whole question? There may be other amendiments wanted. I hope the gentleman will apply his motion for the previous question to his amendment. The PRESIDENT. Whenever gentlemen desire the previous quest'on to have application to an amendment, they must, in terms, apply it to the amendment. Mr. HAY. I confine the motion for the previous question to the amendment. The question being upon the amendmenit offered by Mr. Hay, to fix the number of judges at "four," the amendment was agreed to. Mr. TURNER. Mr. President: I move to strike out all after the word"law," in line five. The PRESIDENT. That is a matter which the Convention has agreed to, it being one of the amendments reported by the Committee of the Whole. Mr. TURNER. Then I move to reconsider the vote by which the Convention adopted that amendment to the section. It may place the General Assembly in a very embarrassing condition, and it may lead to a great deal of difficulty in the administration ofjustice. Tthere are port ons of the State where perhap s oeur judges could do all the business, and a great deal more than all the business in a district or t,.rritory comprising 400,000 inhabitants. There are other districts where business concentrates, and where to select a district with 400,000 inhabitants would give a greater proportion of business to the fbur judges in that district than they would be able to accomplish. I hope the Convention sees the point I make. Take four or five-six, if you please- h commercial counties, where there are 400,000 inhabitants. Those six counties would form a judicial district, but the four judges elected there could no* do the business for the 400,000 inhabitants, being purely, or in a great measure, commercial; while in another portion of the State, where agriculture is the principal business, another district having 400,000 might not have one-half the business of the former, and the four judges would have little to do. Therefore I hope this me, as his remarks indicate. But I do not expect to see the time when any system will be adopted by which the minority will rule, and I do not know that I expect to see the time when all parties will be blended. Perhaps those two things were contemplated at Philadelphia, some time ago —that the minority should rule and all parties be absorbed. [Laughter]. It may be repeated again. I hardly expect it. The reason I suggested "four" is this: That if the circuit court judges are constituted an appellate court, it will leave three to hold the court. As the one who tried the case is not to sit again on the trial of that case, it is evidently proper there should be an odd number, and I made the suggestion because it was contended by the gentleman in the partisan speech he made this morning, that this was for the purpose of creating large dis tricts to "gerrymander" with. Therefore, the less number would be the least objectionable to him, I suppose. Mr. CAMERON. Mr. President: The only objection that presents itself to my mind. to the adoption of this section, is that urged by the gentleman from Fulton [Mr. CummingsJ, that it is liable to give an undue partisan advantage in the election of judges. I trust we are all opposed to anything of th's kind, yet it will be readily perceived that this provision may be made a partisan weapon in the hands of au uniscrupulous Legislature; and I therefore move as an amendment to the amendment which has been offered by the gentleman from SaD'gamon [Mr. Hay], that we insert in the third line, after ",genera:. law," the words, "on the plan of minority representati-on." I do not desire to provoke any discussion on this question at the present time. I do not desire to discuss it myself. I have no objection to the adoption of the article, and I believe there are others who have no objection, provided these words are inserted, so that undue advantage may not be possessed by any party. On that amendment I move the previous question. Mr. ALLEN, of Crawford. How are the Legislature to determine the necessary plan of minority representation? There are a dozen or fifteen plans of minority representation. Mr. CAMERON. The objection can be easily met by striking out the single word "4the," and inserting "ia," leaving it in the hands of the Legislature to provide the plan. I care not what that particular plan may be, provided that in all cases the rights of minorities are respected. Mr. ALLEN, of Crawfo~rd. Un~less I know what the plan is to )e, I object. It might be more objectionable than the original article. Mr. CARY. I mnove to lay the amendmentof the gentlemuan fivm Cook [Mir. Camlueronl] o,n t he tabl e. The otnIioin was agreed to. Mr1. GARY. Mr. President: I would suggvJst to) the gentleman from Sangamon [:dr. Hay], to amend his amendment so as to fix the number at four. Then it would leave the judge that tries the case out, and stfill leave threeto act on any case takers to such appellate court. MIr. HIAY. Mr. President: It occurs to me that probably it would be betteF'to I APRIL 25) 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1459 clause will be stricken out, because there will be no necessity for it. Another section provides generally, that there Shall Dot be more than one judge for 100,000 inhabitants throughout the State, and that districts shall be arranged according to population, territory and business. Now, then, there may be as much business in one district of fifty thousand, as in another of one hundred and fifty thousand, and when these circuits are thrown together, it may give more than a due proportion of work to a distr-' ct comprised of four judges, having four hundred thousand in it, while by leaving out this clause, it d,,es not operate against the general provision restricting the number of judges. We i-nay have one district, theu, of three hundred thousand, which may have as much business as the judges can do, and another with four hundred thousand that may not have as i-auch as the judges ought to do. 1, therefore, see the manifest propriety of striking OUt this clause. The PRESIDENT. The motion is to reconsider the vote b which the Convention aoreed to the amenduient reported from the Committee of the Whole at the end of the section. Mr. CARY. Alr. President: I suppose the object is to strike out, and that ol.-)ject is to allow more j edges. Mr. TURNER. Not at all, Mr. President. Mr. CARY. But it is to make smaller circuits, Nlr. President. Mr. TURNER. Mr. President: If the gentleman will allow me-by the provision we have already adopted, we can have but so manv judges. If we have twe-uty-five hundred thousand population, we have twenty-five judges, and no more. If we strike this out, we can still have only twenty-five judges, and no more. We can have one district with four judges to do the business of three hundred thousand, and another with four judges to do the business of five hund:ed thousand. Mr. CARY. Mi. Pr(:sident: With that object, I withdraw my objection. '.rhe question being on the motion of Mr. Turner, to reconsider the vote by which the Convention concurred in the ainendmei.t of the Committee of the I t oti 140C.TTTOA C~]XIi onY The amendment offered by Mr. Spring. er was agreed to. Mr. SPRINGER. Mr. President: I have another amendment, which I will read: Add after the word "emoluments," in the seventh line, "and no judge of the supreme or circuit courts shall own, hold or control any interest of value, directly or indirectly, in the capital stock of any railroad corpora tion, or in any insurance company, beyond his interest as a policy holder, or be a director, trustee or other officer in any such corpora tion or company during his term of oflice." Mr. WELLS. I call for the yeas and nays on that amendment. Mr. TURNER. Mr. President: I hope that will not be adopted. I certainly have no desire that our judges shall be in any way influenced by their connec tion with railroads or insurance compa nies. I have no objection to a provision in the Constitution that they shall hold no office, that they shall not be a director or trustee of any corporation, but a great many gentlemen, when they get somewhat advanced in life, desire to lay by a little property for their declining years, and invest in railroad bonds or stocks, or United States bonds or st s or stocks, or State bonds or stocks, or in iSRsuraLnEce stocks. Mr. SPRINGER. This does not ex clude them from holding the stock of any thing other than railroad corporations and insurf nce companies. Mr. TURNER. Why not then, also, deprive them of holding stocks of any city or bonds of any city or county, or any telegraph company, or any species of property? Why not say they shall not own an ox or an ass, or any Species of property, which may become the subject of litigation? Questions may be brought before them, involving their title or own ership. Mr. SPRINGER. Mr. President: Will the gentleman sit in judgment upon his title in his own property? Mr. TURNER. No, sir, judges -do not sit in judgment upon the title to their own property. The law provides for such cases. I insist, Mr. President, that this amend ment should not be adopted, upon purely fair minded, honest, honorable principles. We have no right to dictate what prop erty a judge shiall be the owner of, or whether he shall own any property, or none at all. If' a judge, owning a farm streaked with ]~orses and mules and asses, is capable of deciding fairly in regard to the title of ano)ther man who has property of a similar character, he is also capable of deciding a question involving railroad matters, even though he mlay have a th',u~sand dollar railroad certificate of stock ill his pocket and be the owner~of it. This thing is wrong ia prin, ciple. If the genltlemnan desires to put a clause in the Constitution, that a judge shall not decide a case where any railroad in which he is a stockholder, or any inlsurance company itn which he is a stockholder is a party, I have no objection to his doing it, although that ought to be left to the General Assembly, or to the good taste of a judge. To adopt a clause in this Constitution that a judge shall not hold or own this or that kinld of property, will make the Convention ridiculous, and the argument is just as strong against his holding personal property of any kin(~ as it is against his holding insurance or railroad stocks. man from Sangamo n [Mr. Hay], in resisting the motion to strike out, which was rejected by a single vote. I regret very much that the gentleman from 8angamon [Mr. Hay] consented to change the character of the section by accepting the proposition of the gentle man fromt McHenry [Mr. Church],wlhich, in my judgment, complicates the section, and would make it inoperative under certain circumstances, because it will be necessary for the number of judges to be such as can be divided by four, without a remainder. I think it complicates the section; and as it has been changed Ishall not feel bound to vote for it, upon the question of its adoption. Mr. TURNER. Mr. President: I un derstood that the motion to strike out the latter clause was adopted, and that the motion to strike out " three or more" was adopted. What is the question now? The PRESIDENT. The concurrence of the Convention in the amendment re ported by the Committee of the Whole, was reconsidered. That left the amend ment of the Committee of the Whole be fore the Convention, as if no action had been taken. The Convention now has stricken out all that was inserted by the committee. The question now is, whether the Con ventioll will agree to the amendment, as amended by striking out. It is a mere question (of form, in point of fact, for the qltestioin on adoption will embrace the whole question. Mr. ARCHER. -.he amendment of the Convention to the amendment of the Committee of the Whole, was the amendment of the gentleman from San gamon [Mr. Hay], striking out "not less than three," and substituting "four" judges. The PRESIDENT. The Committee of the Whole did not act on the la.guage "three or more judges." The only amendment acted upon by the Commit tee of the Whole was that striking out all after the word "law." If the Coveii tion declinesto concur, it will simpiv be a reconsideration of its action by which it concurred. Mr. ALLEN, of Alexander. Mr. Presi dent: It was my purpose to call for the yeas and nays on the adoption of the sec tionl, but if this is a mere formal Flatter of concurrence I withdraw the call. The PRESMIDENT. The call fo~r the yeas and nay s is withdrawn, and the order will be made that the Convention does not concur. The question is upon the adoption of the section. /Vr. UNDERWOOD. Mr. President. I will muove a verbal amendm~ent, which will, perhaps, reconcile all parties. I move to insert before the word "flour," the words "not exceeding." The amendment was agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the adoptionl of the section. Mr. ALLEN, of Alexander. Mr. President: I call for the yeas and nays. Mr. FOX. Mr. President: I move to strike out the section. The PRESIDENT. It but changes the form of the motion which the Chair has put to the Convention. If the Convention desires to strike oult, they bare sim-. ply to decline to adopt it. -The yeas and naiys were ordered, and,; aeing taken, resulted —yeas j30, nayIs 26as "~l1ows: NiAYS. Abbott, Ellis, Parker, Allen of Alex. Forman, Rice, Allen of Crfd.,Fox, Sharp, Archer, Haines of CookSniyder, Bayne, Hankins, Turner, Bowman, Hart, Vandeventer, Cameron, Hayes, Wait, Cummings, Neece, Weils-25. Dement, So section fifteen, as amended, was agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the adoption of section sixteen, and the Secre:tary will read it. The Secretary read section sixteen, as follo-ws: ;SEc. 16. From and after the adoption of this Constitution, judges of the circuit courts shall receive a salary of three thousand dol lars per annum, payable quarterly, until oth erwise provid(ed by law; and after their sala ries shall be fixed by law, they shall not be increased or diminished during the terms for which said judges shall be, respectively, elected; and, from and after the adoption of this Constitution, no judge of any court shall receive any other compensation, perquisite or benefit, its any form whatsoever, nor per form any other than judicial duties to which may belong any emoluments. Mr. ME[LRIAM. Nlr. President: If it is in order, I wish to strike out after the word "of," in the second line, these words: '"three thousand dollars per annum, pay able quarterly, until otherwise provided by law," and insert "fifteen hundred dollirs per annum, payable quarterly, and such fees as may be provided by law, until otherwise provided." The PRESIDENT. The amendment is' not in order, inasmuch as it is an amendmnent to the amendment which was proposed in the Committee of the Whole, with which the Convention has concurred. Mr. SPRINGER. Mr. President: I have an amendment to strike out the word "any," before "court," in the fifth line, and insert in lieu thereof the words "the ssupreme or circuit." The way it reads now, it includes the judge of the probate court and the judge of the county court. It is not the intention, I believe, to make these o(fficers' salari(s sufficient for themn to live on, and the amendment I offerr will give them an opportunity to pursue some other business. It is sufficient, in my judgment, to exclude the circuit and supreme judges from receivin)g any additional compensatic.n The section, as it now stands, will almost destroy the efficiency of the county courts. It will be necessary if we elect a lawyer judge of the county court, to permit him to practice in the circuit court. He could then serve as county judge for a comparatively small salary, i CONSTITUTIONAL. CONVENTION MONDAY) 1460 YEAS. Goodhue, Harwood, Hay, Hildrup, KiDg, McCoy, M,-rriam, Moore, Parks, Perley, Anthonv, Benjamin, Browning, Cary, Church, Cody, Craig, Cross, Fuller, Gamble, Peirce, Poage, Sedgwick, Sherrill, Spr!Dger, Sutherland, Underwood, Wagner, WlieatoD, WhitiDg-30. .&BSENT, OR NOT VOTING, Anderson, Atkins, Bromwell, Brown, Bryan, Buxton, Coolbaugh, Eldredge, Englisti, Go6dell, Haines ofLake,Tincber, Han-na, Truesdale, McDowell, Tubbs, Medill, Wall, Pillsbury, Washburn, Robinson, Wendl'ng, Ro,s, Wilson, Scholfleld, Wright, Skinner, Mr. President-28. APRIL~~~ ~ ~ ~ ~ 2_ 180 EAE N IRCELGs16 The yeas and nays were ordered. Mr. ANTHONY. Is a substitute in order for the section? The PRESIDENT. Not at the present time. Mr. SPRINGER. I would like to state my reasons The PRESIDENT. It is not in order. The Secretary will read the proposed amendment. The Secretary read the amendment offered by Mr. Springer, as follows: Add at the end of the section, the following: 'And no judge of the supreme or circuit court shall own, hold, or control any interest of value, directly or indirectly, in the capital stock of any railroad corporation, or in any insurance company, beyond his interest as a policy holder, or be a director, trustee, or other officer in any such corporation or company during his t-erm of office." The PRESIDENT. The question is o n the motion to lay the amendment on the table. The yeas and nays being taken, resulted-yeas 18, nays 35-as follows: I vote "No." Msr. WHEATON (when his name was called), said:E Mr. President: I am willing to say that a judg e should nct be a director of a railroad or other cor poration, nor have passes on rai lroads. But I see no reason why there s hould be an invidious distinction between the different kinds of property, or why we should forbid a judge's owning a farm, railroad stock or other property. Therefore, I vote "No." Mr. FOX. Mr. President: Would a motion for a call of the Convention be in order? The PRESIDENT. The Convention is acting under the previous question, and therefore the motion would not be in order. Mr. DEMENT. Mr. President: I rise to a question of order. Whether it is not the duty of every member in the hall, whenl his name is called, to vote, unless the Convention excuse him? The PRESIDENT. Certainly; and the Chair will enforce it, if gentlemen will indicate any instances of the kind. Mr. WAGNER. Mr. President: I would indicate the gentlemen from Jo Daviess [Mr. Cary]. [Laughter]. Mr, DEMENT. There, behind that column. Mr. President, I move that the gentle man from Jo Daviess [Mr. Cary] be ex. cused from voting. The PRESIDENT. It is not compe tent to excuse a member from Voting after tile roll call has begun. The Secretary will call the name of the gentleman from Jo Daviess [Mr. Cary]. Mr. CARY (when his name was called) said: Mr. President: I would like the privilege of explaining my vote on this question. ["Object," "object."] Mr. CARY. 1 vote "Aye." Mr. BENJAMIN (before the result was announced). Mr. President: Can I have the privilege of explaining- my vote? ["Object," "object." "You've voted."] Mr. BENJAM IN. I desire to charge my vote. If there is no objection, I would state Mr. CARY (in his seat). I object. Mr. PERLEY. I wish to change my vote. I merely voted; "Aye," that 1 might move a reconsideration. 1 now vote':No)." The PRESIDENT. it becomes the duty of the Chair to give the casting vote upon this question; and he will assign his reason tbr the vote he will give. It is very apparent, from the views relative to the compensation of judges that are entertained, not only by the gfentlemten of this Convention, but by the people of the State, and which probably will be entertained by any future Legislature, that no judge will ever own ally stock of this or any other character, unless he ac*quires it long before the people of'the State call upon him for judicial services. I de not think he' ought to be compelled to dispose of the fruits of his previous earnli~gs. I see no reason why-s discrimination sho)uld be made against any class of property that may be held 'by alny citizen, upon whom the people of the State may call for service. Indeed, I apprehend that judicial integrity is not yet in danger; and I therefore vote "No." The result was then announced —yeas~ -27, nays 29 —as fllows: I hope the gentleman will not seriously persist in urging that amendment. The yeas and nays were order ed. Mr. ARCHER. Mr. President: Would an amerndment t o t he amendmaent be in order? The PRESIDENT. It would be in order. Mr. ARCHER. Mr. President: I move to amend the amendment, by addirg after the word "annum," in the second line, the w ords "and n o more"; and by strik iDg out iu the second, third and fourth lines, th e words "until otherwise provid ed by law"; and after "their salaries s hall be fixed bCy law," "they shall not be incr eased or diminished during the terms for which said judges shall be r espectively elected." The section a s amended, w ould then read as follows: SEC. 16. Fr om an d afte r the adoption of this Constitution, judges of the circuit courts shall receive a -alary of three thousand dollars per annumii, and no mlore, payable quar terly; and fi'oin and after the adoption of this Constitution no judge of any court shall re ceive any other compensation, perquisite or benefit, in any formi whatsoever, nor perform any other than judicial duties to which may belong any emoluments. Mr. VANDEVENTER. Mr. Presi dent: I rise to a point of order. The gentleman is moving an amendment to al amendment, after the yeas and nays have been ordered. -The PRESIDENT. The yeas and nays have been ordered, but no gentleman has responded to his name. ,Nlr. VANDEVENTER. Mr. Presi dent: I understand that the gentleman from Alexander [Mr. Allen] hadresponded to his name. Mr. ALLEN, of Crawford. Mr. President: I rise to another point of order. The section as it now stands, was an amendment adopted by the Committee of the Whole, and concurred in by the Convention. Mr. ARCHER. Mr. President: I have not been in the Convention fbr the two days last past, and do not know that this section has been acted upon by the Coilvention. 5Ni. ALLEN, of Crawford. Mr. President;: Trhe amendments of the committee were acted upon, and this was one of the amendments of the committee. The PlRESIDENT. The Chair is under the impression that the amendment is subject to the objection of the gentleman fronm C rawfojrd [Mlr. Allen ]. Mr. ARCHER. I mloved this amendment, and was about to read the section as it would read as amended. It is as follows: SEc. 16. From and after the adoption of this Constitution, judges of the circuit court shall receive a salary of three thousand dollars per annum, aind no mlore, patyable quarteriy- and from and after the adoption of this Constitution no judge of any court shall receive any other comupenlsation, perquisite, or beAnefit, in any form whatsd~ewar, nor perform an:y other than judicial duties to which may belong any emoluments. The PRESIDNT The amendment is not il corder at the present stage. It is sub-jecGt to the objection of the gentlemanll rom Crawford [Mr. Allen], and also to ansothler, that it is not an amendment to the amendment of the gentleman from ~Iadison [Mlr. Springer]. Mr. YAN DEkVENT'ER. I move to lay the amendment of the gentleman from Madison [M r. Springer] on the tble. YEAS. Allen ofAlx'ln, Cameron, Allen of CrI'd, Cody, Anthony, Craig, Arc her, Forman, Bowman, Hay, Browning, Netete, NAYS. Abbott, Goodhue, Bayne, HainesofCook Benjamin, Hankins, Cary, Hart, Church, Harwood, Cross, Hayes, Cummings, I-Iildrup, Dement, King, Ellis, McCoy, Fox, Merriam, Fuller, Moore, Gain ble, Parks, BSSENT, OR NOT VOTING. Haines of L'k.,Skinner, Hanna, Tincher, McDowell, Truesdale, Medill, Tubbs, Peirce, Wall, Pillsbury,- Washburn, Rice, Wendling, Robinson, WilsonI Ross, Wright, Scholfield, Mr. President-30. So the motion of Mr. Vandeventer to lay on the table the amendment offered by Mr. Springer, was not agreed to.. Mr. WELLS. Mr. President: I move the previous question upon the amendment. Mr. FOX. Mr. President: I call for a division of the question. I am in favor of the latter clause of the amendment, but the other I am opposed to. The PRESIDENT. The amendment is so framed that it is not subject to division under the rule. It will be impossible to frame from it two separate propo. sitions expressed in distinct words, so tha t eac h will stand complete in itself. The question being upon the adoption of the amendment offered by Mr. Springer, the yeas and nays were ordered. The Secretary proceeded to call the roll. Mr. VANDEVENTER (when his name was called), said: Mr. President: I wish to explain my vote. This Convention has determined time and again not to legislate any judge out of office, and this is an indirect way of doing it. This amendment is one of the most absurd and pernicious things that have been sprung in this Convention. 366 DEBATES ANI) P-ROCEEDINGS. APRIL 25, 1870. 1461 Parker, Sharp, Turner, Vandeventer, Wells, Wheaton-18. Anderson, AtkiDs, Broniwell, Brown, I Bryan, Buxton, Coolbaugh, Eldredge, Englisti, Goodell, CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION forty thousand civil suits pending in the year 1861 before these courts of record. It is very evident that that class of suits at the present period wauld amount to fifty thousand. One dollar and fifty cents paid in by each litigant would, therefore, produce one hundred and fifty thousanrd dollars. That would pay the salaries of the supreme, the circuit and the county judges, and the county attorneys, if we adopt this plan. Gentlemen say that this is a tax upon justice. They might say that the cost of issuing the summons, the subpnenas, or every precipe, from the circuit clerk's office in a suit, is a tax upon justice. The services of the sheriff and all other services rendered in the progress of litigation in civil suits, may as well be regarded as a tax upon justice, as a docket fee, and I submit that where the people of a county furnish the facilities of a court house and pay the officers their per diem-the police officers, constables and sheriffs-for the purpose of preserving order and protecting the litigants, and aff,)rd them these facilities without any tax upon the litigation, the balance might be paid by suitors. I submit that when all this is done without any tax upon the litigants, when these litigants, of their owwn volition, commence suits in court, it is due to the farmers, the taxpayers, the business men of the country, who are at home attending to their own business, that they should be protected from a portion of these ordinary expenses and, to use a homely phrase, "let those that dance pay the fiddler," just as if gentlemen choose to go to a ball, or a place of festivity, they have to pay for the music, and they may almost as well say that this is not a free country because they cannot go to these other places without paying their own expenses. There is a large proportion of the people, in my judgment, and I meet them every day, at every stage in life, in all my transactions in business and my interco urse with my neighbors, who never go to law. I find that there is a great number of persons who have never been in court, who have never sued or ever been sued, for debt. Why not relieve them from the particular expense of litigation in which they have no seeming direct interest? Why not let this docket fee be assessed as part of cost of the suits, as the fees for the clerk, the sheriff, and otherofficers, or other expenses that accruee P Now we are about to adopt this article. It is a much more expensive one (and I do not say unjustly so) than the article in the present Constitution. We are about to adopt a legislative article which is much more expensive than the article in the present Constitutien. Here we have an opportunity to provide, without doing injustice or harm to any person inl the State, that the judiciary article, so far as the salaries of judges and the county attorneys are concerned, shall be a self B sustaining article, and in the name of the people, upon whom taxes are piled, I may say almost mountain high, for every object, and in every variety of cases in the shape of special as well as general taxes, I ask that they have this protection. I ask the attorneys here who have been, as I call it, legislating for their convenience ([ do not say unjustly), that the practice in the courts shall conform to their views, to come to the relief of the farmers and the taxpayers, and support this amend YElAS. Abbott, Hart, Archer, Harwood, Bayrne, Hayes, Cary, Itildrup, Cross, King, Dement, McCoy, Fuller, Merriam, Haines of C'k, Moore, Hankins, Parks, Allen of Alex.Craig, Allen of Cr'fd.,Cuminings, Anderson, Ellis, Anthony, Forman, Benjamin, Fox, Bowman, Gamble, Browning, Gooldhue, Cameron, Hay, Church, Neece, Cody, Parker, Atkins, Haines of LIk, Skinner, Bromwell, Hanna, Tincher, Brown, McDowell, Truesdale, Bryan, Medill, Tubbs, Buxton, Peirce, Wall, Coolbaugh, Pillsbury, Washburn Eldredge, Rice, Wendling, Elnglishl, Robinson, W"lsoD, Goodell, Ross, Wright-27. So the amendme nt offered by Mr. Springer was not agreed to. Mr. DEMIENT. Mr. President: I ofer the folkowing amendment to section sixteen. The Secretrry read the amendment offered by hMr Dement, as follows: Add to the end of the section the following: "Atnd the General Assembly shall, at its first session after the adoption of this Conlstitution, provide for the payment of a docket fee in each civil suit commenced in any circuit or county court in this State, to be paid into the State treasury, to constitute a fund for the payment of the salaries of the supreme, circuit and county judges, and State and county attorneys." WMr. DEMENT. Mr. President: I hope this amendment will be adopted. We have adopted almost every amendment proposed to the judiciary article, calculated in any way to conform and contribute to the interest and convenience of lawyers and attorneys. This is a proposition that I assume is made in the interest of the tax-payers. I cannot see but what in this particu lar, the interests of the farmers, and the tax-payers, and the attorneys may not go hand in hand, unless it be (which I have heard urged against the docket-fee, not upon this floor, but outside of the Convention) that the attorneys generally have to advatnce the docket fee. This is not a new subject at all. It is one that I spoke about to gentlemnen of the profession of the law, while this article was before the Judiciarv Committee, and while it was before the Committee of the Whole. It is a subject that was discussed in the Convention of 1862, and in the address of the committee appointed by-that Convention, to publish an address to the people. It is not a new question. It is intended, as will be seen by the language, to do away with the question (,f any interest that a judge may have in promoting litigation. It proposes that the docket-fees shall be paiid into the State treasury. It is true that it is intended from this source to provide a fund sufficlent to p~:y the salaries of the judgies, and the State and counsty attorneys. In the address of the Convention of i862 it -was ascertained by official statis tics that there were between thirty and Allen of Alx'n,Fox, Allen of Cwfd, Fuller, Anthony, Goodhue, Archer, Hart, Benjamin, Harwiood, Bowman, Hay, BrowDing, Hildrup, Catneron, King, Cary, McCoy, Ch1l!I, Moore, Cody, Neece, Craig, Parker, Formaan, Perley, NAYS. ABSENT, OR NOT VOTING. Atkins, Hanna, Skinner, Bromwell, McDowell, Tinstlher, Brown, Medill, Truesda le, Bryan, Parks, Underwood, Buxt,on, Peirce, Wall, Coolbaugh, Pillsb!ury, Washtiurn, Eldr-edge, Poage, Wenrdling, Englisah, Rice, Wilson, Go)d;dell, Robinson, Wri!,-ht, Ilainies ofCook,Ross, Mr. President-31. Haines of Lake, 1462 -N'IONDAY) ment. It is to pay the money into the treasury. There is no one to be it,fluenced or bribed. Do not let it go to the people that attori-icys object to the docket fee, for the reason that tli(y generally have it to pay themselves-ttiat it is opposed or rejected here, -not t-ecause it is a tax upon j ustice, but because it is a tax uoon the attorneys practicing in the courts. They are, in s(,me neighborhoods, as 1 have understood, a little too modest to -say to a client, who does not have the money in his pocket, when he comes to talk about a suit, and wishes to commerce it, that they will not advance the docket fee for him. I do not claim that nio(-Iest,y on be1-ialf of all our attori.ieys. A party commeiices a suit against his neighbors and the law requires him to pay a docket fee of one dollar and a half; if ttie client cannot do that to comnieijce with. oiir attortieys probably do not t-lik.e ttie case. Mr. GOODHUE, Air. Presideiit: Notwitlistandidg my very high appreciation of the legal attainments and tire I(,-gal experieiiee of the mayor of Dixon, or rather the gentleman from Lee [ivir. Denieut], I ai-n opposed to his position, ai..d I have a very brief spcecl-i to make agiiiist it, and which is-I move that his amendment be laid on the table. [Laughter]. Mr. DEL14ENT. Mr. President: I call for the yeas and nays. I The Secre,,ary read the amendment offered by Mr. Dement, as foll(lws: Poage, Sedgwick, Sheri-III, Siiyder, Spril.iger, Underwood, Wagner, wait, Whiting-27. N'AYS. Perley, Scholfield, Sharp, Sutherland, Turner, Vandeventer, Well-, Wheaton Mr.'lresident-29. A.BSENT OR NOT VOTING. Add at the end of the section the following: and the Gelaeral Assemblv sliall, at its first session after the adoi)ti(.)n of this Const;itittioil, provide for the payment of a docket fee in each civil suit commenced in any circuit or county court in this State, to be paid into the State treasury, to constitute a furd for the payment of the, salaries of th(, supreme, circuit and county judges and State and county attorneys.'' The yeas and nays were ordered, a-,id, being tiken, resulted-yeas 38; nays 14 -as follows: YEAS. Scholfie,ld, Sedgwick, Sharp, Sherrill' Snyder, Springer, Suthei-land, Tiit)Os, V,,ttideventer, Wait, Wells, Wheaton-38. Abbott, Aiiderson, Bayne, Cross, Cumuaings, Dement, Ellis, Gamble, Hankins, Hayes, Merriam, Tui-tiet-, Wa,tier, Wtiiting-14. So the motion of Mr. Goedhue, to lav on the table the amendment offered by Mr. Dement, was agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is on the section. 0 APRIL 25, 1870. DEBATES AXD PIOCEEDIGS. 1463 The PRESIDENT. The Convention simply has acted on the amendments re ported by the Committee of the Whole. Thie Secretary read section eighteen, as follows: SEc. 18. There shall be elected in and for each county, by the electors thereof, one judge and one clerk of the county court, whose terms of office shall be four years; but the General Assembly may create districts of two or more counties, in each of which there shall be elected one judge who shall take the place and exercise all the powers and jurisdiction of county judges in such districts. County courts shall be courts of record and shall have originial jurisdiction in all mat ters of probate, settlement of estates of de ceased persons, appointment of guardians and conservators, and settlements of their ac counts; in all ma.tters relating to apprentices, and in proceedings for the collection of taxes and assessments; and such other jurisdiction as may be provided by general law. Mr KING. Mr. Presideint: I desire to offer to this Convention a substitute for section eighteen. The Secretary read the substitute offered by Mr. King, as f,)llows: SEe. 18. There shall be elected, in and for each county, by the electors thereof, one judge and one clerk of the county court whose terms of office shall be four years. County courts shall be courts of record, and shall have original jurisdiction in all matters of probate, settlement of accounts, appointments of guardians and conservators, and settlements of their accounts, in all matters relating to apprentices, and in proceedings for the collection of taxes and assessments and shall have original jurisdiction in all counties having over fifteen thousand inhabitants that may, upon the recoinmendation of the board of county commissioners or board of supervisors, adopt the salne by a majority of all the votes cast at any general election, then said county court shall also have original jurisdiction in actions of debt, assumpsit, trover, replevin and trespass, either to person or personal property where the amount claimned or value of the property in controversy does not exceed five hundred dollars, and of crimes and misdemeanors where the punishment shall not be capital, or confintement in the penitentiary: Provided, that the same practice shall be adopted in said county court that may exist in the circuit courts for instituting and conducting suits therein. The present county courts, with all their powers and jurisdiction, shall be continued until otherwise provided by law. Mr. KING. Mr. President: When1 this question first came up before the Convention, I was an earnest advocate, in my way, of getting an article incorporated in the Constitution of this State to give additional jurisdiction to every county in the State, as reported by the Committee on the Judiciary. I was inl favor of that report, but upon a. canvass in Committee of the Whole, I ascertained from the vote of that committee, that they would not agree, as a majority, Sty give that additional jurisdiction to every county in the State. I therefore acquiesced in the judgment and vote of that co mmittee, which was, that we should simply have this additional jurisdiction, by a vote of the majority of the people of any county that might desire it. That satisfied me, because it was the best that I could get. Then, when it came up in Convention upon Fridayor Saturday, there wasa motion made to strike out that portion of the section allowing the people of any county to give this additional jurisdiction. I was under the impression at the time that motion was made, that, as the matter had been so fairly and fully discussed in the Convention, and voted by the opponents of the measure, we would acquiesce in whatever was done. But there w as a' motion made to strike that portion out, and th e Convention ag reed to that. I think a great t many of pthe members vot ed under a mi sa ppre - hensiob, an, voted with the enemies of this county court system. Now, I propose that substitute, and I cannot se e for myself why gentlemen of the Convention will ntt allow counties, when there is a sufficient amount of busi ness to be transacted by the people of that county, all increase of the jurisdic tion of their county, provided they vote a major ity for it. If I thought that I was proposing to incorporat e anything in the Con stitution w ae are framing, which w ould i cjure the people at large, I do not think I,ould press it. But I think this is a fair prop osition. When I have asked gentlemen of the Convention tQ simply allow my people and the people of other counties in the State, to exercise the rights and privileges of an extended county judi ciary at their own expense, I feel I am not interfering with any other interest. I will admit that there are counties in southern Illinois which do not want this jurisdiction, not having business enough t,) warrant it. I do not desire, as a mem ber of this Convention to, by my vote, place upon any of these gentlemen, or upon their people, that jurisdiction when they do not desire it. But I do ask those gentlemen of southern Illinois, of north ern Illinois, of middle Illinois, and every other portion, to come up and support a proposition that is so fair, as I think this is. We simply ask that those counties which do not want the jurisdiction, may have it. It briL-gs no cost to others, and forces nothing upon anybody else, in any shape. I~I hope gentlemen will agree with us. I do not intend to detain the Convention. The substitute is fair, for it establishes in the county courts the same practice as in the circuit court. It allows no county to vote for it unless it has a population of over fifteen thousand inhabitanlts. Wheth er my county can give this number, I do not kn,ow. It depwends upon the census of 1870. Accordii-,g to the census of 1865 we had only thirteen thousand and something, but I think by the time the next census is taken, we may reach the limit. I ask gentlemen to vote for the substitute. Mr. CUMMINGS. Mr. President: I move that sectionts eighteen, nineteen, twenty and twenty one be postponed, and section twentyr-wo be taken up, which provides:* SEC. 22. The judges and clerks of county courts} in offiea at the adoption of this Conlstitution, shall hold their offices until the expiration of their respective terms, and the county courts now in existence shall have the same power and jurisdiction they Dow posBsess, until the judges and clerks of county courts, provided for by this Constitution,shall be elected and qualified. I desire that the Convention may take action with respect to county judges and clerks first. The PRESIDENT. The qulestionl is uponl the Laotion of the gentleman from Fulton [Mr. Cummings]. Thle motion was not agreed to. The PREI:1DENT. The question is upon the substitute proposed by the gentleman from Jersey [ Mr. King]. Mr. ALLEN, of Crawford. Mir. Presidient: I suggest to) my friend to modify his proposition so as to allow any coulnty, without reference to population, to give YEAS. Allen of Alex.,Cummings, Allen of Crfld.,Ellis, Anderson, Forman, Anthony, Fox, Archer, Fuller, Bowman, Gamble, Brownintg, Goodhue, Cameron, Hankins, Cary, Hart, Church, Harwood, Cody, Hay, Craig, Hildrup, Crobs, King, NAYS. Abbott, Merriam, Bayne, Parker, Benjamin, Perley, Dement, Rice, Hayes, Snyder, McCoy, Springer, JUDICIAL DEPARTM ENT. The PRESIDENT. The question is on the adoptiton of section Seve ntee n. The Secretary read section seventeen, as follows: SEC. 17. NO person shall be eligible to the office of judge of the circuit or atny inferior court, or as a member of tile "board of' c)unty commissioners," who is not a citizen of the United States and of t1his State,; nor unless he shall have resid, d in this State for five years or mare, immtnlediately preceding his election shall s ide, at the time of his election, in the circuit, county or city in which he is elected, and shall be not less than twenty-five years of age. The removal of anly such judge or officer from the circuit, co)utinty or city in and for which he shall have been elected, shall vacate his office. The PRESIDENT. If there are no amendimentsthereto, it will be declared adopted. The question is on section eighteen, as amended by the Committee of the Whole and Convention. Mr. TURNER. Have we not already adopted that section? Api?.IL 25, 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1463 Mr. HAYES. I move to amend the section by adding after it these words: Any judge accepting or using a free idass or gratuity from any railroad company doing business in this State, shall forfeit his office. Mr. ALLEN, of Crawford. I move to lay the amendment on the table. The yeas and nays were ordered, and, bein- taken, resulted-yeas, 38, nays, 18 -as follows: Moore, Neece, Park, Peirce, Scholfield, Sedgwick, Sliarp, - Sherrill, Stitherland, Vandeventer, WeWait, '118_38. Tubbs, Turner, Underwood, Wagner, Wtieaton, Whiting-18. ABSENT, OR NOT VOTING. Atkins, Haines of CookSkinner, Brown, Haines of LakeTin(.lier, Bryan, Hanna, Truesdale, Buxton, McDowell, Wal 1,' Bi,oniwell Medill, Washburn, Coolbaugh, Pillsbury, Wendling Eldredge, Poage, Wilson, English, Robinson, Wright, Goodel.1, Ross, Mr. Prefideiat-27. So the motion of Mr. Allen, of Crawford, to lay on the table the amendment offered by Mr. Hayes, was agreed to. Ttic PRESIDENT. Ttic question is up,)n the adoption of the section, and it is declared adopted. ADJOURNMENT. Mr. HART. Mr. President: I move that the Convention do now adjourn. The motion was agreed to. So t.he Convention (at twelve o'clock and twenty-five minutes) adjourned. AFTER-NOON SESSION. MONDAY, April 25,1870. The Convention niet at two o'clock P 3i., and was called to order by the Presi dent. 141 COST1TUTIOAL COYETJOX MONDAY, h iving the assistance of counsel. He MIinst employ a lawyer, and he will be cf'tain to do so. It is anL old saying, that every man who attends to his o~wn case, has a foo(l for a client. Now, as he has to have a lawyer, and as the lawyer must necessarily have the requisite knowledge( of law, why not have the knowledge ot pleading in addition, which presupposes knowledge of the law and which requires the proper kind of men to be judges of such a court. If we abolish or do away with, or do not require a system of pleading, we will degrade the court, sir, to the level of a umere first class ju,:tice of the peace court, where small amounts are in controversy, and it will become a great nuisance, as such a court must necessarily be a laugh ing stock, and deservedly so, all over the country. Mr. SCIIOLFIELD. Mr. President: I hope that the substitute offered by the gentleman fromJersey [Mr. King] will not be adopted. The Convention, at an early day, manifested what I regardied as a proper and wise judgment, upon the subject of special legislation. We entertained the view which I then thought, and still think was wise, that one of the greatest evils existing under the old Constitution was special legislation, and that too, not only with regard to corporations, and their rights, but also with regard to courts, aand the he modes of administering justice therein, in the several counties of the State. This policy has been strictly adhered to up to the present time, and the a tempt by this substitute, to make the county courts an exception to that rule, is the first departure, I think, from that principle in our proceedings. I can scarcely conceive, sir, of anything which ought justly to be regarded as .more offensive in a county court system, tithan that the jurisdiction in one county should be one thing, and itl another coun ty another thing, depending upon the whim, for the time being, of the county board. If the jorisdiction of the county court should be extended to a certain class of cases, it should be done by genleral law. There should be some uniformityin county courts as well as in circuit courts. If it is important to fix, by general law, tests of jurisdiction in the circuit courts, it is equally important to so fix them inl the county courts. If this jurisdiction is to be conferred upon county courts, it ought to be conferred by a fixed rule. It ought to be uniform in its operation. rThe proposntion now, however, is to alk)w the county board to increase or diminish the jurisdiction at pleasure. Under the operation of that system, we will find that in some of the c aunties of the State there will be an enlarged jurisdiction, while ill other counties, probably with a greater population, the jurisdiction conferred upon the county cHurt will be less. Mr. RICE. Mr. President: With the permission of the gentleman, I would make a correction. I think he misapprehends the iProposition of the gentleman from Jersey [Mlr. King]. I understand that the county board simply submit to the people the question as to whether they will have the increased jurisdiction. The jurisdiction is fixed. They have to accept it as it is, or reject it. Mr. SCHOLFIELD. I did not misunderstand the proposition before, nor do I the count y court increased Jurisdiction. MCany counties have nearly, b ut not quite fifteen thousand population. I move t o strike out of the substitute "having fifteen thousand inhabitants." Mr. CARY. With that stricken out, it l aves the section just as it is now. Mr. ALLEN, of Crawford. I ask for the reading of the section as it now stands. The Secretary read section eighteen as agreed to in Committee of the Wholeand amended in Convention, as follows: SEC. 18. There shall be elected in and for each county, by the electors thereof, one judge and one clerk of the county court, who,se terms of office shall be four years, but the General Assembly may create districts of two or more counties in each of which shall be elected one judge, who shall take the place and exercise all the powers and jurisdiction of county judges in such districts. Coutntv courts shall be courts of record, and shall have original jurisdiction in all matters of probate, settlement of estates of deceased persons, appointment of guardians and conservators and settlement of their accounts; in all matters relating to apprentices; and in proceedings for the collection of taxes and assessments, and such other jurisdiction as may be provided by general law. Mr. KING. I accept the amendment to strike out "having fifteen thousand inhabitants." Mr. CARY. Mr. President: I think the section as amended leaves it in the power of the Legislature to make the change. desired by the gentleman [Mr. King] who has offered the substitute. If any county desires it, by a general law which the General Assembly can pass in connection with county courts, any county can adopt that when it desires to. I think that is better than putting it in the Constitution. Mr. UNDERWOOD. Mr. President: I move to strike out the word "provided" and the four following liies. That, proviso requires the pleadings to be the same in the county courts as in circuit courts. My object is thi. If I vote for this county court I wish to have it a people's court-a farmers' and mechanics' courtwhere any body can go and present his claim without the fo)rmality of pleading, and have it adjudicated, to the amount of $500. If we require pleadings, the parties must employ lawyers. I think it will prejudice this court. But if we enable people to go before it as before a justice of the peace, it will be a very great convenience. There will be very little form or ceremony. Cases will be tried on their merits. It was that feature that commended the proposition very strongly to me, and I think it would to the people Mr. SNYDER. Mr. President: Iam opposed to my co)lleague's amendment, for, I think, very good reasons. One is that unless the system of pleading i~s required, and a knowledge of the law in consequlence (fo~r n1o mua can be a pleader unless he is a lawyer), the qualifications of county j udges will be too low, and we will have the justice of the peace arrangement we have now~ Many of our county courts; are presided over by persons who would not make first class justices of the peace. !~row, sir, whether there be pleadings in a court or not, it is essential always that there should be lawyers, b~ecause no man unacquainted with the law can go into a court where justice is to be administered according to the law} and considerable interests are at stoke, without CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION MONDAYI 1464 understand that the suo-,Lyestions of the Gentleman f'ror-n IVIontgorv [iNIr. Rice], relieves the proposition of its offensive character at all. In one county the question is submitted to the people of the county, whether they will have this increased jurisdiction or not. In adotlier county the question is not submitted. Why is it that we subn:iif, the question of jurisdiction of county courts, to the people, and do Dot also submit the question of the jurisdiction of circuitcourtstothepeople? IfthisConstitution is to be a mere creature of the will of the people, in one respect, why not fix it ill all others? If the duties of officers or the rights of individuals are to be fixed bv ttie votes of the people, in oiie case, why not let them be so fixed in o,,,Iler cases? If a permanent, fixed, unalterable rule of law ought to be establisl-jed, is a matter of richt, as a matter of protection to the citizeins of the State, in one case, why not extend it to other cases in which their riohts are equally idvolved? I hope the gentlemen of this Convent!OD, however they may feel with regard to the amount of jurisdiction which should be conferred upon these coudty courts, willnot depart at this time from the wholesome and salutary rule which they have laid down in this COOVeDtiO'D, and thus far adhered to, that all legisla. tion shall be uniform and general in its operation, throughout the State, n(-t to depend either upon the caprice of the Legislature or upon any particular local tribunal, but upon general fixed laws operating alike throughout the State, upon all who are in a like condition. ,4r. KING. I (lo not know that I am entitled to another speech, but I suppose I am to speak to the amendment of the gentleman from St. Clair [Mr. Underwood]. The PRESIDENT. The gentleman is entitled t) speak upon the amendment. Air. KING. I am in hopes the amendmerit wilt not be adopted. If we are to li-,Ive this additional jurisdiction given to t lie courts, it seems to ni(, that we should have some unif(-)rm rule of practice, so that a man could not go in with a five hundred dollar uote and flie it, andthe clerk give notice to parties, as is now the law of the land. Mr. UNDERWOOD. I will state to DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. ment of the estates of deceased persons" would be better. The PRESIDENT. The Secretary will make the change. Mr. TURNER. Mr. President: I wish to suggest an amendment. The PRESIDENT. The Convention is acting under the operation of the previous question, and an amendment would not be in order. Mr. WHEATON. Mr. President: I call for a division of the question,-to have the question taken upon the motion to strike out section eighteen. The PRESIDENT. A division of the question is desired, and will be ordered. The question is upon striking out section eighteen. The yeas and nays were ordered, and being taken, resulted-yeas, 26; nays, 32 -as follows: and that is why I put that provision in there. I hold that if I give him those superior rights, he should conform to the practice in the circuit court of the State of Illinois. I give him by this section if it is adopted, the collecting of a five hundred dollar note four times a year, in the county court, and twice a year in the circuit court, which makes six times; and if he is entitled to the privilege of making his money that often, I say that he ought to conform to the practice of the circuit court. Therefore, I am opposed to the amendment of the gentleman from St. Clair [Mr. Underwood]. It is unjust; it is unreasonable; for there is not a man in this State who is a litigant, and wishes to collect a five hundred dollar note, who would for a single moment hesitate to go to a lawyer, employ him, ask him to file a declaration or a precipe in his case, and conduct the suit through. We will afford, if we adopt this amendment, a remedy to the people of this State that they never have had before. I ask gentlemen to sustain the proposition as it is submitted. I say it is unjust to the legal fraternity (I will be honest about that) to allow a man to go into the circuit court, file a note of five hundred dollars, give notice through the court, and get a judgment upon it. Mr. VA'NDEVENTER. Mr. President: I think we have had this proposition thoroughly discussed. I move the previous question upon the whole proposition. The motion for the previous question was agreed to, and the main question ordered. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the amendment offered by the gentleman from St. Clair [Mr. Underwood], to strike out from the substitute the four lines succeeding the word "provided." Mr. HAINES, of Cook. Mr. President: I was not here when the substitute was offered. I would like to hear it read, as otherwise I shall not know what I am voting upon. The Secretary read the substitute offered by Mr. King, as proposed to be modified by the amendment offered by Mr. Underwood, as follows: TEAS. Allen of Alex. Gamble, Allen of C'fd. Goodhue, Anderson, Hart, Bayne, Harwood, Benjamin, Hay, Browning, Ha-yes, Cameron, tlildrup, Cary, McCoy, Church, Merriam, Cody, Moore Cross, Parks, Cummings, Perley, Denlent, Peirce, Ellis, Poage, Forman, Abbott, Englishl, Skinner, Anthony, Goodell,'l Tincher, Atkins, Haines of LakeTruesdale, Bowman, Hanna, Wall, Bromwell, McDowell, Washburn, Brown, Medill, Wendling, Brvan, Pillsbury, Wilson, Buxton, Ross, Wright, Coolbaugh, Sherrill, Mr. President-2S. Eldredge, So the amendment offered by MIr. Underwood, was agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon striking out the section, and insertirg the substitute of the gentleman fromJersey [Mr. King]. Mr. TURNER. I call for the reading of the substitute, as amended. The Secretary read the substitute offered by Mr. King, as amended by the amendment offered by Mr. Underwood, as follows: SEC. 18. There shall be elected in and for each county, by the electors thereof, one judge and one clerk of the county court, whose terms of office shall be four years. County courts shall be courts of record, and shall have original jurisdiction in all matters of probate, settlement of accounts, appointment of guardians and conservators, and settlement of their accounts; in all matters re-elating to apprentices, and in proceedings for the collection of taxes and assessments, and shall have original jurisdiction in all counties having over fifteen thousand inhabitants, that may, upon the recommendation of the board of county commissioners or board of supervisors, adopt the same by a majority of all the votes cast at any general election; then said county court shall have original jurisdiction in actions of debt, assurmpsit, trover, replevin and trespass, either to person or personal property where the amount claimed or value of the property in controversy does not exceed five hundred dollars, and of crimes and misdemeanors where the punishment shall not be capital or confinement in the penitentiary. The present county courts, with all their powers and jurisdiction, shall be contin ued until otherwise provided by law. Mr. UNDERWOOD. Mr. President: I think there is certainly an error in the words employed in the substitute-where it speaks of the settlement of accounts. It means "the settlement of the estates of deceased persons." Mr. KING. Mr. President: I think the gentleman is correct. "The settle ABSENT, OR NOT VOTING. Anthony, Goodell, Tincher, Atkins, Haines of Lake,Truesdale, Bromwell, Hanna, Wall, Brown, McDowell, Washburn, Bryan, Iinedill, Wendling, Buxton, Pillsbury, Wilson, Coolbaugh, Ross, Wright Eldredge, Skinner, Mr. President-25. English, So the motion to strike out section eighteen was not agreed to. T~he PRESIDEN'~. The question is upon the section. Mr. TURNER. Mr. President: I now propose an amendment at the beginning of the second line. Mr. CHURCH. Mr. President:'The amendment is not in order. The previous question was ordered for the whole question. Mr. TURNER. Mr. President: I think it is in order. The PRESIDENT. The main question is upon the adoption of the section. Mr. TURNER. Mr. President: I then will move to reconsider the action by which the previous question was ordered. I willstate my motion. It is simply to insert the words "county judges." That is the name by which the officer has always been known. The PRESIDENT. The Chair can only entertain a motion of that sort, at this stage of the question, to the extent of ordering it entered on the journal. The Secretary will record the motion to reconsider the action of the Convention in ordering the main question. Mr. TURNER. Mr. President: I withdraw the motion. The PRESIDENT. The motion to re Sgc. 18. There shall be elected in and for each county, by the electors thereof, one judge and one clerk of the c'ounty court, whose terms of office shall be four years. County courts shall b e c ourt s o f r eco rd, and sh all have original jurisdiction in all matters of probate, settlement of accounts,lappointment of guardians and conservators, and settlement of their aecounts; in all matters relating to apprentices, and in proceedings for the collection of taxes and assessments; and shall have original jurisdiction in all counties having over fifteen thousand inhabitants, that may, upon the recommendation of the board of county commissioners or board of supervisors, adopt the same by a majority of all the votes cast at any general election; then said county court shall have original jurisdiction in actions of debt, assumpsit, trover, replevin, and trespass, either to person or personal property where the amount claimed or value of the property in controversy does not exceed five hundred dollars, and of crimes and misdemeanors, where the punishment shall not be capital or confinement in the penitentiary. The present county courts, with all their powers and jurisdiction, shall be continued until otherwise provided by law. The yeas and nays were ordered. The PRESIDENT. The question is on the amendment offered by Mr. Underwood. APRIL 25) 1870. 1465 OOD. Will the Secreendment. read the amendment ofderwood, as follows: IIOW!DG words: t the same practice shall be unty court, that may exist rts ibr institutidg and conein.11 ays beidg taken, the renounced-yeas 43; nays 1.'-as follows: Rice, Robinson, Scholfield, Sedgwick, Sharp, Sutherland, Tubbs Turner, Underwood, Wa ncr, W 9 a,it, Wells, IWheaton. Whiting-43. Y.EA.S. Abbott, Gamble, Allen, ofalex. Hankins, Archer, Hay, Bayne,' K,, g, Bowman,'riam, Cameron, Neece, Cross, Perley, Dern"'-t, Peirce, F.., Poage, Rice, Sedgwick, Springer, Siitheriand, Tubbs, Turner, Underwood, Wait-26. N.IYS. Archer, Craig, Fox, Fuller, Haines of CookParker, Hankins, Snyder, King, Springer, Neece, Vandeventer-19. ABSENT, OR NOT VOT-iG. EnZli,,,Il, Skinner, G6dell,'l Tincher, Haines of LakeTruesdale, Hanna, Wall, McDowell, Washburn, Medill, Wendling, Pillsbury, Wilson, Ross, Wright, h, Sherrill, Mr. President-28. WAYS. Allen of Crfd.,- Fuller, Robinson. Anderson, Goodhue, Scholfield,, Benjamin, Haines ofCook,Sharp, Browiaing, Hart, Sherrill, Cary, Harwood, Snyder, Church, Hayes, Vandev'enter, Cody,, Hildriip, Wagner, Craig, Me oy, Wells, Cummings, Moore, Wheaton, Ellis, Parker, Whiting, 32. Forman, Parks, 367 4~~~8 ()OSJUINLCNETO ODY as well qualified to pass upon this question a s are the county judg es in other counties. I think the jurisdiction should all be conferred upon the same court. The a mend me nt offered by Mr. Cody was agreed to. Mr. BROWNING. Mr. President: As the provisions which have been adopted now stand, they give concurrent jurisdiction to the county courts, in matters of probate. Even after probate courts shall be established, county courts will still have jurisdiction concurrent with them, the word "exclusive" having been stricken out. It is, therefore, necessary to make a further amendment, and I propose the following: Insert after the word "courts," in the fourth line, the words "when established," and after the word'shall," the words "in lieu of county courts," so as to read: "said courts, when established, shall, in lieu of county courts, have original jurisdiction," etc. The PRESIDENT. The Secretary will read the amendment. The Secretary read the amendment offered by Mr. Browning, as follows: After the word "courts," in the fourth line, insert "when established," and after the work "shall," insert "in lieu of county courts," so that it will read: "said courts, when established shall, in lieu of county courts, have original jurisdiction," etc. The PRESIDENT. The amendment will be declared adopted. The question is upon the section, and it will be declared adopted. The question next is upon the twentyseventh section. The Secretary will read the section. The Secretary read section twentyseven, as follows: SEC. 27. Justices of the peace, police mag istrates and constables shall be elected in, and for such districts as are or may be provided by law. Mr. HART. Mr. President: I move an addition to section twenty-seven. Add to section the following: "Justices of the peace shall have jurisdiction in actions of debt, assumpsit, trover, replevin, and trespass, either to person or personal property, when the amount claimed, or value of property in controversy, does not exceed three hundred dollars, and such jurisdiction in cases of crimes and misdemeanors as may be provided by law." if he feels injured, -appeal to a higher court, but if the judgment be for two or three hundred dollars, he cannot appeal, because he cannot get security for four or six hundred dollars. That is one objection to the amendment. But that is not the consideration I have chiefly in view. The great objection I have is this: We must have some little regard for the poor men of our country. They form a very large class, which demand as much consideration as any other class of men. Now, sir, take the poor man, or the man in moderate circumstances, and a judgment rendered against him for $300, will strip him of all the personal propelty he has. If he has a piece of real estate, he may have something to satisfy the debt with, upon execution from a circuitcourt, while he might not have personal property to satisfy an execution from a justice's court of two or three hundred dollars. Men who take advantage of the poor by cut-throat mortgages, may clamor for this swift process of grinding from the poor man, through justices' courts, the debts which their wants or misfortunes may render them unable to pay promptly. Thlese sharp creditors wili pause with thei-' claims of two or three hundred dollars before suing in the circuit court, where it will cost them something. They will prefer to give their creditors a little time, which in nine cases out of ten is all the debtor desires. Take that class of men who have land, and yet are unfortunate enough to be in debt. Tlhey may be struggling to get along, support their families, and pay their debts. A judgment rendered in the circuit court for two or three hundred dollars and an execution levied upon land, will give them a little time to re deem. It gives them a little chance. But let judgments be rendered against them before a justice of the peace, and it will take their plows, horses, all their implem e n ts of husbandry, to satisfy so large a d emand. I know there may be a reply that it is not so expensive litigating in a justice's court as in the circuit court. But, sir, if gentlemen will go to our poor men, that unfortunate class who owe small debts, I will guarantee that nineteen-twentieths of them will be found opposed to this measure, and will prefer, if they must be sued, to be sued in the circuit cou':t rather than before a justice of the peace. I am in favor of leaving the question to the General Assembly, where it always has been left, and having the jurisdiction uniform throughout the State. I do not rwish to increase the jurisdiction to two hundred dollars or three hundred dollars. I do this from a sincere consideration for that class of men who need our consideration full as much as that other class who have demands to collect from their less fortunate neighbors. Mr. MERRIAM. Mr. President:. The reasoning of the gentleman from Stepenson [Mr. Turner] is very specious, but o while I do not wish to say anything in this connection, concerning a matter in which I feel very great interest, that will be offensive to anybody on this floor, I apprehend that the great, the main objection to this provision, lies in the fact that it would enable these poor men, small farmers and others, of whom the gentleman speaks so feelingly, to collect their debts, without paying any f ees to the lawyers. If there is one thing that the people who deal in small notes and accounts of one hundred, two hundred and three hundred dollars, specially desire in the arrangement of our courts, it is that they may have a short, simple mode of reaching justice. I am aware that every man who has a note of hand of, say one hundred dollars, two hundred dollars or three hundred dollars, can, under this section, collect that note before a justice of the peace, without paying some attorney ten per cent. on it for doing it for him. It makes it certain that the man can save ten per cent., at least. Of course, the man from whom he collects the debt would have to pay the costs, but he has to pay his attorney himself. If it may be said that justices of the peace are sometimes incompetent,.which I admit, I hold that a justice who has sense enough to decide whether a note for one hundred dollars is just or not, has sense enough to decide whether a note is gcod for two hundred dollars or three hundred dollars. If there be anything wrong in his decision, the parties have the same right of appeal to the higher courts that they have in the smaller cases. The objection, sir, that it will not ena ble those men to take appeals to the cir cuit court, is, I think, not well taken. There are very few men, sir, who have any reputation for honesty, whatever, whose notes are taken for two hundred or three hundred dollars, who are not able to give the required security to enable them to take an appeal to a higher court. If their credit is good enough for their notes to be taken for two hundred dol lars, it will be good enough to enable them to take an appeal to a higher court. I hope that the amendment offered by the gentleman from LaSalle [Mr. Hart] will prevail. Mr. SHERRILL. Mr. President: I am in favor of the amendment offered by the gentleman from LaSalle [Mr. Hart], and I wish to state my reasons for it. Laws should be so framed and adminis tered as to best suit the wants and con venience of the people requiring them. Executive courts should be established and held with reference to facilitating and expediting in the best -manner the collection of debts, and settling of suits andl controversies arising between men in the transaction of business. Can there exist any reasonable objec tion to allowing parties the privilege of trying their suits at home, when they have implicit confidence in the ability and integrity of their justice, by whom all parties are known and whom they have elected for this purpose, instead of com pelling them to go ten or twenty miles to the countyr court with their witnesses, when their business requires them at home; and that, too, often at a season of the year when the roads are nearly im passible, arriving just in time to find their cases set down for some future day, or continued until another term of the icourt, and then to be tried by a county judge whose extensive legal knowledge, whose superior fitness which in so emi;nent a degree enables him to execute the duties incumbent upon him, to discharge '.them correctly, and to decide those tech;nical legal points so ~onclusively and I I r I 1 1 e t d d d d e n c d y t t i (,IONSTIT'UTIONAL CONVENTION .MOND.&-k, 4c8 I think this extended jurisdiction very much required for the settlement of a vast amount of small business. It is called for in my county, and may be in ov-iers-when citizens have questions of law, at a IODG distance from the county seat. Such business can just as well be done by local courts in the citizen's own locality. I hope the Conventio-D will give it due consideration. Mr. CUMMINGS. Mr. President: I move to amend by inserting "two" instead of "three." The PRESIDENT. The question'is upon the amendment offered Lty the gentleman from Fulton [Mr. -Cummings]. Ir. TURNER. Mr. President: I hope neither of these amendments will be adopted, and I will briefly state my reasons. To say nothing of the incapacity of many of the justices of the peace to settle and determine questions of as large amounts as two or three hundred dollars, there are some other questions lying behind these of very grave importance. A poor man who gets a judgment against him of a hundred dollars, may, APRIL 25, 1870 DEBATES ND PROOEEDJGS., 1467 thisjurisdiction will not only be exclu sive, but conclusive, and there will be no j power of appeal from the judgments and L orders of the court. It would be better ; to say "exclusive original jurisdiction," so that the right of appeal may be pro vided for by law. Otherwiseno right of appeal will exist. Mr. HAY. Mr. President: I think there are some other difficulties not alto gether obviated by this amendment "said court shall have exclusive original j urisdiction." That is a very useful amend ment so far as it goes, but I have objec tions to the use of the words "exclusive original jurisdiction." There are, as will be recognized by lawyers, many instances in which a court of chancery has necessary concurrent jurisdiction with probate courts, in matters of probate, which would be effectually cut off by the use of this language. It is well known that there are many cases in which the settlement of an estate becomes complicated with equitable and conflicting questions that cannot be adjudicated in the county court, and it becomes a necessity to resort to a settlement of those questions in a court of equity. I fear that the use of the terms here used would cut off that jurisdiction of the circuit court. I think we had better strike out the word "exclusive" entirely, and insert "original" in place of it. Mr. BROWNING. Mr. President: I accept the amendment. The amendment offered by Mr. Browning, as modified by the amendment offered by Mr. Hay, was agreed to. Mr. HAY. Mr. President: I now move to strike out the whole section. Mr. WAIT. Mr. President: This section has substantially the same provisions as are contained in the section providing for county courts; and as we have stricken out all the extended jurisdiction given to county co u rts in sections eighteen and nineteen, there is no use in retaining this provision. I, therefore, second the motion to strike out the section. Mr. BROWNING. Mr. President: I wish to make a suggestion to the gentleman who has just taken his seat. There is a discretion vested in the General Assembly to clothe the county courts with very extended and important jurisdiction. If the General Assembly shall do so, the county courts in the larger counties will have all the business that they can do without taking cognizance of the probate business at all. This section can do no harm, as it leaves it entirely under the control and in the discretion of the General Assembly whether to establish these courts of probate or not. If they increase the jurisdiction of the county courts, it may become a necessity to establish probate courts in counties of large population. If they do not increase the jurisdiction of the county courts, the necessity for separate probate courts will not arise, and it it does not, they will not be established. I think it better to leave the whole thing under the control and in the discretion of the General Assembly, by permitting this section to stand as it is. Mr. BENJAMIN. Mr. President: I trust this section will be retained for the reasons given by the gentleman from Adams [Mr. Browning]. The General Assembly may see fit to give extended Abbott, Haines ofCook,Rice, Allen of Alex.,Hankins, Robinson, Archer, Hay, Sherrill, f:raig, McCoy, Wait-12. Allen of Crfd.,Fulle r, Anderson, Gamble, Anthony, Goodhue, Bayne, IIart, Benjamin, Harwood, Bowman, Hayes, Browning, Hildrup, Cary, King, Cameron, Merriam, Cody, Moore, Cross, Parker, Cummings, Parks, Ellis, Perley, Forman, Peirce, Foxi Poage, By thle C onstitution of 1848, the title o f the office of this judge is "county judge." and in all s tatutes that have bee n passed since that time, running through a period of twenty years, the title of that office has been the same. We are speak ing of those who are in office at the adoption of this Constitution, and should therefore insert the word "county" after the first word of the section, thus conforming to the present Constitution and the present statutes of the State. I therefore move to amend the section accordingly. The amendment offered by Mr. Cody was agreed to. Mr. SEDGWICK. Mr. President: I offer an amendment to the twenty-second section, as follows: Add "and such other jurisdiction as may be provided by general law." The reason I do this is, that by this section the present county courts and officers are continued in office until the expiration of their terms, which will be something over three years, and by the terms of the section as it now stands, there will be no power in the Legislature togrant this extended jurisdiction, if it should be needed, until the expiration of the termsof the present officers. Therefore I move to add these words, that the Legislature may, between now and the time of the expiration of the terms of these officers-which will be over three years-extend the jurisdiction of these courts. The amendment offered by Mr. Sedgwick was agreed to. Section twenty-two, as amended, was agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the adoption of the twenty-fourth section. The Secretary read section twentyfour, as follows: SEc. 24. There shall be elected in each of the counties of this State not under township organization, three officers, who shall be styled "the board of county commissioners," and who shall hold sessions for the transaction of county business as shall be provided by law. Section twenty-four was agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the adoption of section twenty-five. The Secretary read section twentv-five, as follows: SEC. 25. At the first election of county judges under this Constitution, said commissioners shall be elected —one of whoml shall hold his office for one year, one for two years, and one for three years, to be determined by lot; and every year thereafter one such officer shall be elected for the term of three years. Section twenty-five was agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is on the twenty- sixth section. The Secretary read section twenty-six, as follows:- SEC. 26. The General Assembly may provide ibr the establishment of a probate court in each county having over fifty thousand population, and for the election of a judge thereof, whose term of office shall be the same as that of the county judge, and who shall be elected at the same time and in the same manner. Said court shall have exclusive jurisdiction of all probate matters, the settlement of estates of deceased persons, the appointment of guardians and conservators and settlements of their accounts, and in all mnatters relating to apprentices. Mr. BROWNING. Mr. President: I move to amend by inserting at the end ofi the fourth line, after the word "'exclu-I sire," the word "4original." Otherwisel APP.IL 25, 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1467 six. The yeas and nays were ordered, and beidg taken, resulted-yeas 12, nays 44as follows: WAYS. Scholfield,Sedgwick, Shar.p, Snyder, Spr'iiger, Sutherland, Tincher, Tubbs, Turne, Underwood, Vandeventer, Wagner, Wheaton, Whiting-44. ABSENT, OR NOT VOTING. Atkins, English, Skinner, Bromwell, Goodell, Truesdale, Brown, Haines of L.ake, Wall, Bryan, Hanna, Washburn, Buxton, McDo*ell. Wells, Church Medill, Weiidling, Coo'lbaugh, Neece, Wilson, Dement, Pillsbury, Wriffht. Eldredge, Ross, Mr. Prsidnt-a,7. So the motion of Mr. Hay to strike out sect ion twenty-six was not agreed to. Mr. CODY. Mr. President: I desire to offer an amendment by addidg to the section these words: "And in cases of sale of real estate of deceased persons for the payment of debts." I think it is desirable that in counties of such size as to require this court, it should be provided that all questions re. latiDO' to the estates of deceased persons should be settled therein. Mr. TINCHER. Mr. President.- I hope th-,tt amendment will not prevail. The interests of minors are at stake in the sale of real estate especially, and there is no one thing that ought to be more carefully guarded than the property of minors. I if their real estate is to be dis. posed of, let it be done in the best and most experienced courts, where no mis. take can'arise as to title and proper protection of their rights. Mr. CODY. Mr. President: We have already established a county court which has this jurisdiction. This is a provision with regard to probate courts in counties having over flftv thousand inhabitants, where the whole probate business is referred to that officer. In such counties we would probably have probate j udgr a 4~~~8 -OSJUJNLCNETO ODY if he feels injured, appeal to a higher court, but if the judgment be for two or three hundred dollars, he cannot appeal, because he cannot get security for four or six hundred dollars. That is one objection to the amendment. But that is not the consideration I have chiefly in view. The great objection I have is this: We must have some little regard for the poor men of our country. They form t a very large class, which demand as much consideration as any other class of men. Now, sir, take the poor man, or the man in moderate circumstances, and a judgment rendered against him for $300, will strip him of all the personal property he has. If he has a piece of real estate, he may have something to satisfy the debt with, upon execution from a circuitcourt, while he might not have personal proper ty to satisfy an execution from a justice's court of two or three hundred dollars. lMen who take advantage of the poor by cut-throat mortgages, may clamor for this swift process of grinding from the poor man, through justices' courts, the debts which their wants or misfortunes may render them unable to pay prompt ly. These sharp creditors will pause with their claims of two or three hundred dol lars before suing in the circuit court, where it will cost them something. They will prefer to give their creditors a little time, which in nine cases out of ten is all the debtor desires. Take that class of men who have land, and yet are unfortunate enough to be in debt. They may be struggling to get along, support their families, and pay their debts. A judgment rendered in the circuitcourt for two or three hundred dollars and an execution levied upon land, will give them a little time to re deem. It gives them a little chance. But let judgments be rendered against them before a justice of the peace, and it will take their plows, horses, all their imple ments of husbandry, to satisfy so large a demand. I know there may be a reply that it is not so expensive litigating in a justice's court as in the circuit court. But, sir, if gentlemen will go to our poor men, that unfortunate class who owe small debts, I will guarantee that nineteen-twentieths of them will be found opposed to this measure, and will prefer, it they must be t sued, to be sued in the circuit cou,:t rather than before a justice of the peace. I am in favor of leaving the question eto the General Assembly, where it always has been left, and having the jurisdiction uniform throughout the State. I do not wish to increase the jurisdiction to two hundred dollars or three hundred dollars. I do this from a sincere consideration for that class of men who need our con e sideration full as much as that other class who have demands to collect from their less fortunate neighbors. Mr. MERRIAM. Mr. President: The reasoning of the gentleman from Stepen son [Mr. Turner] is very specious, but while I do not wish to say anything in this connection, concerning a matter in which I feel very great interest, that will be offensive to anybody on this floor, I apprehend that the great, the main objection to this provision, lies in the fact that it would enable these poor men, A small farmers and others, of whom the gentleman speaks so feelingly, to collect as well qualified to pass upon this question a s are the county j udges in other counties. I think the jurisdiction should all be conferred upon the same court. The a mend me nt offered by Mr. Cody was agreed to. Mr. BROWNING. Mr. President: As the provisions which have been adopted now stand, they give concurrent jurisdiction to the county courts, in matters of probate. Even after probate courts shall be established, county courts will still have jurisdiction concurrent with them, the word "exclusive" having been stricken out. It is, therefore, necessary to make a further amendment, and I propose the following: Insert after the word "courts," in the fourth line, the words "when established," and after the word'shall," the words "in lieu of county courts," so as to read: "said courts, when established, shall, in lieu of county courts, have original jurisdiction," etc. The PRESIDENT. The Secretary will read the amendment. The Secretary read the amendment offered by Mr. Browning, as follows: After the word "courts," in the fourth line, insert "when established," and after the word "shall," insert "in lieu of county courts," so that it will read: "said courts, when established shall, in lieu of county courts, have original jurisdiction," etc. The PRESIDENT. The amendment will be declared adopted. The question is upon the section, and it will be declared adopted. The question next is upon the twentyseventhi section. The Secretary will read the section. The Secretary read section twentyseven, as follows: SEC. 27. Justices of the peace, police magistrates and constables shall be elected iq and for such districts as are or may be provided by law. Mr. HART. Mr. President: I move an addition to section twenty-seven. Add to section the following: "Justices of the peace shall have jurisdiction in actions of debt, assumpsit, trover, replevin, and trespass, either to person or personal property, when the amount claimed, or value ofproperty in controversy, does not exceed three hundred dollars, and such jurisdiction in cases of crimes and misdemeanors as may be provided by law." I think this extended jurisdiction very much required for the settlement of a vast amount of small business. It is called for in my county, and may be in others -when citizens have questions of law, at a long distance from the county seat. Such business call just as well be done by local courts in the citizen's own locality, I hope the Convention will give it due consideration. 3Ir. CUI~MINGS. 5fr. President: I move to amend by-inserting "two" in stead of "three." The PRESI'DENTD. The question is upon the amendment offered by the gen tleman from Fulton [Mr. Cummings]. Mr. TURNER. Mr. President: I hops neither of these amendments will be adopted, and I will briefly state my rea sons. To say nothing of the incapacity of many of the justices of the peace to set tle and determine questions of as large amounts as two or three hundred dollars, there -are some other questions lying be hind these of very grave importance. A poor man who gets, a judgment against him of a hundred dollars, may, their debts, without paying any fees to the lawyers. If there is one thing that the people who deal in small notes and accounts of one hundred, two hundred and three hundred dollars, specially.desire in the arrangement of our courts, it is that they may have a short, simple mode of reaching justice. I am aware that every man who has a note of hand of, say one hundred dollars, two hundred dollars or three hundred dollars, can, under this section, collect that note before a justice of the peace, without paying some attorney ten per cent. on it for doing it for him. It makes it certain that the man can save ten per cent., at least. Of course, the man from whom he collects the debt would have to pay the costs, but he has to pay his attorney himself. If it may be said that justices of the peace are sometimes incompetent,.which I admit, I hold that a justice who has sense enough to decide whether a note for one hundred dollars is just or not, has sense enough to decide whether a note is good for two hundred dollars or three hundred dollars. If there be anything wrong in his decision, the parties have the same right of appeal to the higher courts that they have in the smaller cases. The objection, sir, that it will not enable those men to take appeals to the circuit court, is, I think, not well taken. There are very few men, sir, who have any reputation for honesty, whatever, whose notes are taken for two hundred or three hundred dollars, who are not able to give the required security to enable them to take an appeal to a higher court. If their credit is good enough for their notes to be taken for two hundred dol lars, it will be good enough to enable them to take an appeal to a higher court. I hope that the amendment offered by the gentleman from LaSalle [Mr. Hart] will prevail. Mr. SHERRILL. Mr. Presiden~: I am in favor of the amendment offered by the gentleman from LaSalle [Mr. Hart], and I wish to state my reasons for it. Laws should be so framed and adminis tered as to best suit the wants and con venience of the people requiring them. Executive courts should be established and held with reference to facilitating and expediting in the best manner the collection of debts, and settling of suits and controversies arising between men in the transaction of business. Can there exist any reasonable objection to allowing parties the privilege of trying their suits at home, when they lhave implicit confidence in the ability and integrity of their justice, by whom all parties are known an-d whomthey have elected for this purposes instead of compelling them to go ten or twenty miles to the countyr court with their witnesses, when their business requires them at home; and that, too, often at a season of the year when the roads are nearly impassible, arriving just in time to find their cases set down for some future day, or continued until another term of the court, and then to be tried by a county judge whose extensive legal knowledge, whose superior fitnesss which in so eminent a degree enables himl to execute the duties incumbent upon him, to discharge them correctly, and to decide those technial legal points so conclusively and i e i i (,'ONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION -MONDAY, 468 API 25 80-1EAISAD-OEDNS16 r and it is for this reason that I would keep , this court separate and distinct fromn any w other, so that there, at least, our wives ' and our children may confidingly apply for advice and assistance and feel assured T of receiving it, when deprived by death i of their natural guardians and protectors. t Our county has not always been so fortunate in securing the services of so f competent a judge. I know of a man , who was elected probate judge at a re- cent election, who ran nearly one thousandg behind his ticket, and where less than , five votes would have defeated him, but was elected and qualified, and is now performing the duties of probate judge in his county. If I lived in that district and hl-ad a dollar's worth of property to leave, I would try and spend it before I died, for I should expect that it would cost my wife lnenrety-nine cents out of the hun dred to pay his costs, leaving her but one cent, when two are required by custom, if not by law, to close a dead man's eyes. Tell me not that all the honesty and abil ity is confined to this court, for it is a libel on truth as false as the heart that conceived it. If jurisdiction is extended to the pro bate court, let it also be to the justices of the peace," thus giving all parties the right of a home court if they desire it, i instead of compelling them to go to the county seat. Let the costs, as at present, follow the suit and have no more $1,000 si alaried officers created which we have seen can be so readily expanded to $3,000, so unjustly drawn from the taxpayers, and so willingly accepted by men who claim to be honest enough to try dishonest men. Consistency isoftener preached in this world than practiced. Mr BENJAMIN. Mr. President: I would suggest to the Convention that the adoption of this amendment would per petuate in the Cons itution the common o law forms of action, mentioned in the amendment. I simply make the suggestion, because it seems to me that it is undesirable to enumerate these common law actions in an instrument of the character of the Constitution. I,would suggest, also, that if we give the extended jurisdiction to justices of the peace, it would delay, and perhaps detfeat, the extension of similar jurisdiction to the county courts. Mr. SCHOLFIELD. Mr. President: If I could be made to believe that an amendment like that which is now sought to be adopted, would really have the effect of bringing justice nearer to the door of every man, or to render it less expensive, I would cheerfully advocate it; but, sir, there is no question at all in my nnind but that instead of accomplishing that result, it would produce an effect directly the reverse. It has been conceived, upon the part of the legislators of this State, for many years past, to be necessary to preserve certain distinctions with regard to the manner in which property shall be taken on execution. In all judgments before justices of the peace, where the jud ments themselves do not become liens upon real estate, personal property may be taken in execution for the satisfaction of the amount of the judgment; but in tenderness for the debtor, the unfortunate poor marl, it has been the law for years, that on judgments in the circuit court, real estate, excepting the homestead of the clearly, arises from the fact of his having served one term as a justice of the peace while more c,)mpeteijt I)ut Its,, asspirin men, remain still running the justices court. The great difficulty in my humble judgment, lies in the fact that men, both in the city and country take so little interest in the primary meetings in the selection of competent men for -)ffice. The fear of soiling their white kids, or of becomnin,g contaminated by mingling with the ple bians, keels away from the caucus and the po)lls, and allows the wire-pullers to make their own selection of men, before whom they prefer and expect to be tried. Is this rightl? If so, they have no reason to con-plhLi if these offices are being fill ed by incompetent men. If there is any good reason for with holdiing this increased jurisdiction from this class of courts, I have failed to see it, from the fact that it still remains entirely optional with th e parties to elect in which court they will have their cases tried. One is as imipartial and fair as the otlhtr, and, if dissatisfiedi with the judgment rendered for or noust them, their remedy by ap peal re.i,a4iis the same as at present with this additional advantage in favor of the juistice's court, that the cost to all parties would be much less. Another reason: I am in favor of free trade in the professions. If a man is sick, hle can dc-)tor himself; buy a bo)ttle of patent medicine, or employ a physi cian. N)ot so if he has a doubtftul debt to co]lIect. He caii n-ot appear for himself or his Lneight)or un~til he first pays a revenue tax fo,) a license to practice at the bar. If he has a note of $105, he must pay twenty five per cent. (>,f it for collection; if a debt o, $500, he must pay fifty dollars, whll en it could be collected in a justice's co)ulrt fo- less than five dollars. Cer taij,ly lian ought to be allowed the privilege of choosing the court wherein to trar)s-act his busin,ess. I ir,;d,rse the oDinion, of the gentleman fro,im- Vermilion [Mr. Tincher], who says this is the only court wh-ere a man can stalnd uip at,d have a fair, square trial and justice done him-inhere, for a dot lar, he can get the worth of his money in ju-stice, including all necessary law. In my opinion, the object sought may be attained by increasing the justice's julrisdiction and securing the services >>,t' comllpeten~t men, plentyr of whom can be fnund in any town in this State. I can point to men who have held this of ricee f,or a great number of years in succession, and have given general satisfaction-one foer more thanl twenty years, who, during that time, has collected thousandso*f dol lars, has tried more than thrlice that numtber of suits, has had a gr eat many appeals taken from his deci. sione by dissatisfieid parties, and never had o?ne decision reversed —a fact. which canL scarcely be stated of afar h igher court in the State, held by one man for the same length of timue. My fbilend from De~ritt [Mr. Moore] has told us that it was known by everyone ill his town that the justice was mulch mnore comnpetent to try and decide satisfactorily, intricate questions of law, than their county judge —and doubtless, there are many similar cases. But the reverse of this trule in our county —our judge is coml~petent, -efficient, and faithfully discharges the duties of his cffice to the satisfaction of all who require his serviced~ i I I s I I i e e t i t i s t s t t t a t A.PP.IL 25, 1870., DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1469 party, must be first taken in execution, and the title to that property cannot be vested in another until after the expira, tion of fifteen months from the dav of sale, allowinr the debtor twelve, an(f his jtidgLtieDt,er,editors three moiitl-)s in additiOD, in which to make redemption. This enactment originated, and'has been kept upon the statute book, for the berjefit -of the poor man, to keep him, as niucli as possible, out of the hands of griping and merciless creditors. The effect of the adoption of the proposed amendment would be at once to place all the personal property of the poor man Although he might have real estate that might be turned in satisfaction of an execution, and upon which he could avail himself of this J.apse of time), subject to the control of a constable. I ask gentlemen of the Convention if they have r(flected whether their constitUeDts are prepared to make so great a change as this in the collection of debts. Have the poor men by whose votes, i.n part, you are sent here, given you instrIlCtiODS that they desire a change i-n the mode of collecting debts, so that a iman may be summarily stripped of his persoiaal property, notwitlistaddiiig he may have real estate out of which the debt eciuld be made? Have they instructed yo!) that they do not approve of the equity of redemption allowed them in cases of the sale of real estate? Or that they want the law upon this qtiesti.on changed? It is a very serious and important matter to the poor men of the country. The idea that legal proceedings a,--n be so simplified that every man can attend to his own law-suits, is au idea which does not alarm me as a professional man, and one which all men of reflection must see is inteijsely nonsensical. Why, it cannot be, and it is not true, that the common law has exist(2d as a great Science for hundreds of years, for the goverp-i-nerit of the freest and most intelligent people on the face of the globe, and yet that it.is only a system of tricks and devices whereby knaves and scoundrels rob honest men of their substance, as some profess to think. I graiit that it may be -,aid frequently as a matter of reproach, in the practice of the law, that technicalities that had their ri i :47 COSIUTOA COYNI| OD jurisdiction being injurious to poor men, and an oppression upon them, I want to ask the legal profession whether it is harder for them to pay their debts with the trifling expense accruing on an exe cution from the justice's court, or to pay an execution from, and the cost accruing in the circuit court, with the attendant fee of the lawyer? Another point is raised-that it would strip them of their personal property. Does not the law protect a certain amount of personal property from all executions -the excess only being liable? An exe cution in the hands of the sheriff is a lien upon the real and personal property of the -defendant. This increase of jurisdiction is some thing the laboring masse(s want, some thing that men of small means desire, something that will enable them to c ol - lect their debts without lawyers' fees. If a man sells a horse fo)r )ne hundred and twenty dollars, he does not wanit to give twenty dollars of it to pay a lawyer for collecting the amount. This amend ment would be very acceptable to tihe masses. Mr. UNDERWOOD. Mr. President: The very fact that no State in the Union has permanently increased the juriadic tion of justices of the peace, above one hundred dollars, should induce us to think that there is some well founded reason why they do not do it. Mr. CUMMINGS. Mr. President: I yielded the floor because I thought the gentleman friom St. Clair LMr. Under wood] wanted to ask me a question. [Laughter.] Mr. UNDERWOOD. It is too late now. [Renewed laughter.] One reason has been given. A man may be exhausted in the means necessary to him to carry on his business, by execu tions above amounts of $100. Another reason, sir, is that the creditor who would gobble up all a man's effects, is the meanest credit(or pouncing on the debtor suddenly, leaving the other cred itors to whistle. AL,other is: a poor man could not avail himself of the security of the law when sued in a justice's court as well as a rich man. He could not give the large appeal bond required. Again, office bonds must be somewhat uniform. Give jurisdiction up to $200. i Then in villages, towns and cities the officers would collect large sums of money. We have to require the bonds of officers to be very large, so that a poor man cannot hold an office, because he cannot give the bond. iMr. TURNER. Mr. President: I merely wish to ask if those men who are in favor of cut-throat mortgages would desire a poor man to be a justice of the peace? Mr. UNDERWOOD. I suppose not. Mr. President, the poor man should have an opportunity to live; and at the proper time I hope we will get such a homestead law as will answer the purpose. For this reason, Mr. President, 1 would not be inclined to fix an arbitrary rule in the Constitution upon a subject that requires so much'consideration on every side, but let the Legislature regulate the matter. If there are any satisfactory reasons why jurisdiction of justices of the peace should be increased, the Legisla ftre will do so; and if it works badly, it can be repealed. I suspect cr edi tors would fa vor a n increased jurisdiction, and debtors would object to it. As the debtor's class is in the majority, they should have the benefit of the old laws until the Legislature orders otherwise. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the motion of the gentleman from Fulton [Mr. Cummings] to strike out "three" and insert "two." Mr. TURNER. Mr. President: Let the amendmelJt offered by the gentleman from LaSalle [Mr. Hart] be read. The Secretary read the amendment offered by Mr. Hart, as follows: Justices ofthe peace shall have jurisdiction in actions of debt, assumpsit, trover, replevin and trespass, either to person or personal property, when the amount claimed or value in controversy does not exceed three hundred dollars, and such jurisdiction in cases of crimes and misdemeanors, as may be provided by law. Mr. FOX. Mr. President: If in order, I move to lay both amendments on the table, and call for the yeas and nays. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the motion of the gentleman from Schuyler [Mr. Fox] to lay both amendmensts upon the table. The yeas and nays were ordered, and being taken, resulted-yeas, 37, nays, 22 -as follows: Allen of Alex, Fox, Parks, Allen, of Cr'fd, Fuller, Perley, Anthony, Gamble, Rotbinson, Archer, Goodhue, Stlholfield, Benjamin, Hainres ofCook,Sny der, Bowman, Hay, Springer, Browning, Hayes, Turner, Cameron, Hildrup, Underwood, Cary, King, Vaiideventer, Church, McCoy, Wait, Cody, Moore, Wells, Ellis, Parker,. Wheaton-37. Forman, Sharp, Sheltrill Suther-land, Tincher, Tubbs, Wagner, Whiting-22. human libertv hav e p erish e d f rom th e face of the earth. Go back in history, and learn who was among the foremost of those who refused to bend the knee and bow the head to imperial power who rebelled against the recognition of des potic principles that would have enslaved millions, and by whose voice thousands of down-trodden have been disenthralled. We will find they were men given to the study of the law. I mean the study of the law as a science, enforcing the right and prohibiting the wrong, not a mere system of tricks. I say it now, not because I happen to be an humble member of that profession myself, but because after much and deep reflection on the subject, I believe it, as I believe my existence, that an holiest lawyer, who gives good advice, tries to save his client from injury and from wrong, who takes no advantage of his position and tells him no untruth, does mankind as great a service as any man in any other walk of life could. I admit the reverse may, by the unprincipled conduct of a bad and unscrupulous man, be made to be true. Adopt any system we please, we cannot ever get to that state in which men cultivated in the science of justice, will not have to assist men who are ignorant of the management of their judicial affairs. Create a court out upon the wild prairies, take mea who never heard of law, let them undertake to establish a system of jurisprudence, f nd in less than a year's time there will grow up a class whose time, whose study and whose exclusive attention must be given to the prac tice and the enfi)rcement of the systemcall it law or call it whatever you please. I hope then, that because there may have been occasional and exceptional failures to enforce law properly in some portions of the country, gentlemen of the Convention will not be disposed on that account to overturn any of the great landmarks of the judicial system under which our State has grown to its present greatness. Why, a person unacquainted with the facts, might think from what is sometimes said here, that we were but little in advance of s tvnges, or that we were in a state of anarchy. No State in the Union can boast, on an average, better laws} nor show a snore faithful enforcement of them, than we can. Let us preserve them. Mr. CUMMINGS. Mr. President: The friends of this amendment have Do intention of making an assault upon the legal profession. The PRESIDENT. The Chair would remind the gentleman from Fulton [Mr. Cumminigs] that he has spoken once to this amnendment. Mir. CUMMINGS. I think there must be some mistake about it. I only tooyeA an amendment —I made no remarks. The PRESIDENT. The Chair was under the imipression that the gentleman accompanied his amendm~ent wyith re marks, but may be in error. The gentleman will proceed. Mr. CUMMINGS. Mr. President:. I only wish to say that the sum we propose here is not equal to what one hundred dollars was at the time the restriction was placed upon the jurisdiction of the justice of the peace. U~pon the question of t!~ increase of Goodell, Skinner, Haines of Lake,Trujesdale, Hanna, Wall, McDowell, Washburn, Medill, Wendling, Neece, Wilson, Pillsbury, Wright, Ross, Mr President-24. -IFONDAY) 1470 CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION YEA'3. NA.Y$. Hart, Harwood, Merriam, Peirce, Poage, Rice, Sedgwick, Abbott, Ayiderson, Bayne, Craig, Cross, Cummings' Dement, tlalikins, ABSENT, OR NOT VOTING. Atkins, Broinwell' Brown, Bryan, Buxton, Coolbaugh, Ellis, F,,uglish, So the motion of Mr. Fox to lay on the table the amendments offered by Mr. Hart and Mr. CUMMlDgS was agreed to. Mr. ALLEN, of Crawford. Mr. Presi. deiit: I offer the fOllOWiDg amendment, to come in after the section: But the'urisdiction of justices of the peace and 1>oliee magistrates shall be uniform. I simply desire to say that I tibink it is necessary that the jurisdiction of these officers should be uniform. The aniet)dment offered by Mr. Allen, of Crawford, was agreed to' The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the adoption of the section, and it will be declared adopted. The question is on section twenty-eight, which the Secretary will read. The Secretary read section twentyeio,ht, as follows t2 DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. This will especially be the case, under the provision which r lows a county board of supervisors to fix the salary of the county officers. I conceive that we cannot get any couity board that will pay a sufficient salary to commtand legal talent competent to discharge the important dutiesthat are incumbent upon a prosecuting attorney; or, if they should, it would be a very heavy tax upon a smallcounty. The effect of it then will be, that, under small salaries, this duty will be imposed upon some newfledged lawyer-some young man that has just come into the practice, and who takes it as a mere stepping stone to future etmo'umenit-one who will take it merely as a sinecure, not having much to do but to study in his own law office-and the con sequence will be that the duties will not be properly performed. But, again, Mr President, looking at it from the point of economy to the whole State, what do we propose to do? We are, again, by this article, proposing all innovation upon the o d Constitution, and that innovation creates not less than seventy new officers. Under the present system we have some twenty-mine State's attorneys. Under the proposed amendment we increase the Snumber of attorneys to one hundred and three, I believe, the number of counties inl the State. At one fell swoop we are forci:ng upon the people an additional complement of some seventy odd officers, thus increasing the expenses and taxes of the people in that proportion. I call the attention of this Corvention to that fact. I fear we are building up here a colossal structure that will break of its own weight unless we are very careful. An d again, in the last place, I will call the attention of the Convention to this fact, that this is an innovation-it is a proposed reformation, as gentlemen say. Now, what reason has been assigned for it? The people have not asked it, and when I say "the people," I think I have facts to sustain me in the assertion-not that I arrogate to myself more knowledge of the wants of the people than any other gentleman, but I think that the people have spoken upon the subject. Now, sir, the substitute that I offerand it is nothing but a copy of the old Constitution of 1848-provides that the Legislature may adopt this system ofte county attorneys. I call attention to the tfact that the effort has been made time and again in this State before the Legislature to adopt that systim, aind the people, through their representatives in the Legisla;ture, have universally denied or trelused to adopt that system. We in the Convention are now attempting to impose it upon them in the fundamental law of the land. The people have condemned it, and we are trying to force it upon them. All I ask-all my people ask-is to leave this in the hands of the Legislature. Whenever the representatives of the peop le have a direct vote upon that, or are allowed to speak through their representatives in niaking the laws of the land, if they prefer the system of county attorneys-if they want these additional seventy officers-let the Legislature say so- r this provision gives them the power. That is all we ask. We do not wish them to firce this upon us nolens volens in an irrevocable law. The PRESIDENT. The question is SEc. 28. The present State's Attorneys shall hold their offices until the expiration of the terms for which they were elected. The electors of each county shall, at the time of the election for representatives in the General Assembly happening next preceding the expiration of the terms of office of the present States Attorneys, elect a State's Attorney in and for each county, whose term of office shall b e four y ears from said election (but who shall not enter upon the du-ties of office until the expiration of the nterm of offic e of his predecessor), and ever y four years thereafter the electors of each county shall elect a St-ite's Attorney for such county. Mr. ARCHEIT. Mr. Presidetit: t move to amend that section bv addidg after the word "county" ia the fifth line, these words: "in lieu of State's attorneys as now provided by law." I suppose, Mr. President, tbat this section, if ad,pted, is intended to supercede the present system of State's attorneys as now provided for by law. As the section now stands, it would leave in force, if adopted by the Conventioni, both systems of prosecuting attorneys-State's attorneys for the judicial circuits as now provided by law, at-d county atto,)rneys in each county of thie State. I suppose it was the intention of the Committee on the Judiciary, that this county attorney system, if adopted, should supercede the present system of State's attorneys, and I offer this amendment for the purpose of securing that end in this section, if it should be adopted. Air. FOX. Mr. President: I move to strike out the section, and offer the following substitute: The Secretary read the substitute offered by Mr. Fox, as follows: The present State's attorneys shall hold their offices until the expiration of the terms for which they were elected, and thereafter there shall be elected in each of the judicial circuits of this State, by the qualified electors thereof, one State's attorney, iswho shall hold his office for the term of four years, and until his successor shall be commissioned and qualified, who shall perform such duties and receive Euch compensation as may be prescribed by law: Provided, that the General Assembly may hereafter provide by law for the election, by the qualified voters of each county in this State, of one county attorney for each county, in lieu of the 8tate's attorneys provided for in this section; the term of office, duties and compensation of which county attorneys shall be regulated by law. Mir. FOX. Mlr. President: I was not present when this subject was under dis. cussion in the Committee of the Whole, and had no opportunity of offering this amendment. As I do not know that it was o,fiered by any one, I venture to offer it now, and [ ask the indulgence of the Conven:tion for a ibw momzents, while I give my reasons for the substitute which I have j ust proposed. In the first place, Mr. President, I think it is very unjust to small counties. Inl the county I live in, which is snore than an average county, it will be very diffi cult fo~r us to procure a competent prosecuting attorney. It is unnecessary fo~r mue to dwell upon tile necessity of having the prosecution oi our criitnials placod in the hands of competent meen, for the Convention~ can rfealdily perceive that it is (l very imp-ortant matter that the cri;:,> inalls of the land should be properly prosecutcd. :Now-, sir, under this provision requitlug each county to select its own attornley, mly county will be unable to procure com~petent men to discharge that duty; and, as my county is, I think, more than an average county, I infer that this will be the case in all small counties.. APP.IL 25, 1870. 14 l upon the amendment proposed by the gentleman from Pike [iNIr. Archer]. The Secretary read the amendment offered by Mr. Archer, as follows: Insert after the word "county," in fifth line, the words, "in lieu of State's attorneys, as now provided by law." The amendment offered by' dr. Archer was agreed to. Mr. ARCHER. 31r. President: Before the vote is taken, I desire to make a few brief remarks upon this section as amended. I am by no means wedded to the subsl.itution of this system ()f, county attorneys for State's attorneys, as now provided by law, yet I am free to say that I am, after a great deal of reflection on the subject, in favor of the measure. It is not a new idea to me. It is a matter about which I have r(-flected a great deal, and for many years before I had a seat in this body. The substitute now offered by the gentlema.n from Schuyler [,Nlr. Fox] for the section, is a provision of the Constitution of 1848, upon this subject, and the proviso to that section now in the CODStitUtion of 1848, was incorporated itito it upon my oa n motion, as early as 1847. 1 thought then that it wa,3 premature to introduce the system. Yet I thouolit it wise to give to the Legislature a discretion in the matter, when at some future time it might be required to adopt it in lieu of the present system of State's attorneys. The gentleman from Schuyler [Mr. Fox] insists that popular opinion upon this question has been tested, from the fact that attempts have been made by the General issembly to adopt this system of county attorneys in place of the system of State's attorneys, and that such efforts have failed. That is like thousands of other propositions introduced before legislative bodies, the vote upon which is iio index to popular opinion on the subject, from the fact that the public mind has never been consulued on the question. Now, I think there are some very good reasons why this system of couiity attorneys is a better system in th(, present condition of the State, than the system of State's attorneys. The Slate's attorneys are elected in judicial circuits embracin from four 142CNTTTOA CN-TO ODY that by the creation of more offices in the different counties in the State, the rights of the people can be better pror o moted and their interests be better pro vided for, it is not righlt [Here the hammer fell]. The PRESIDENT. A division of the question has been called for, and the question will first be taken upon striking out section twenty-eight. The yeas and nays were ordered, and., being taken, resulted-yeas 21; nays, 35 — as follows: I was not present in the Committe e of the Wh ole on the e day on which this mat ter was up for discussion. I remenibert, however, before the Judiciary Committee, both the President of t he Convention and another representati ve of the lega l frate r nity of Cook county [Mr. Anthony] an d a no ther delegate f r om that county [MI r. Hayes], not now placing himself amongst the mepmbersther of the bar of Chic,igo asa practicing lawyer, gave their judg ment. Mr. ANTHONY. Mr. President: I rise to a point of ord er as to whet her it is c ompetent for the gent l eman to move a reconsiderat ion a t this tire. Tie PRESIDENT,. The Chair is s eek ing to ascertain. Mr. HAINES, of Cook. Mr. President: It was adopted pro forma-whatever that means. The PRESIDENT. It is the impres sion of the Chair that the gentle,man is entitled to make the motion, and he can proceed. Mr. HAY. Mr. President: I hop] a reconsideration will be had, with a view of gettin::g this back to where it was in the Judiciarv Committee. When the matter of providing additional judges was before the Judiciary Commit tee, the two legal gentlemen of the Cook county delegation stated what additional fiorce would be necessary in that county. Their own judgments were that two addi tional judges would afford themn all the judicial help that was needed ia that corunty. Subsequently, there was a peti tion sent down here from the members of the bar in that county, asking that three additional jiudges be added to their benich. I understand that the delegation from Cook county, since that time, have been actinlg more in deference to that petition than realyv forom their own sense and judgment, as to the necessity of these tuin're additional judges. Certain]y, the opin,ion of these three gentlemen, when ihefore the Judiciary Comlmnittee, was as I have stated. I know that opinions may undergo changes about this matter, and further investigation may have given them new light, but about the time that the CommtTittee of the Whole was going to vote upon this question, I camne into the hall and discovered a calendar of cause s that had been gotten up, I suppose^, with a view of affording the requlirote informreation to this Convention as to the number of causes that were on the C(oc,k county docket, as a reason for give ilugthe additional force that was asked fi~r on the bem-ch of that ecounty, which document, I understand (and gentle~men may have a copy of it in the hall nlosw) showed about eight thousand cases to have been commenced in all the courts within the twelve calendar months preceding the time it was gotten up. Now, we provide here for eight judges, givillg aboJut one thousand cases to a judge, there being big and little, just as swe have therein the clounltry. Now, that is not the average number of cases to a juldge that one circulit judge dispo.ses of in the casuistry. In Cook county, while they have im~portanlt cases, as we have ill our country circuits, they have many small cases, and I suppose a larger proportion of collections in proportion to the} whole number of cases than we have in our country circuits. A greater proportion of cases are contested in the country dockets than in the circuit court or, Cook county. Now, I believe, if the history of recog niza nces, which have been en tered into befor e just ices of the peace, and which have been taken by inii,ist rial officers, like, sheriffs, for th e purpos e of securing the attend.n ce of offenders for trial be. fore the circuit court, anld which have been forfewi ed with impunity for the r eas o n that they were not worth the paper they w ere w rit ten upon, could be known, it would be found that thousands of offenders have forfeited their recogui zances, and never have come to trial, from the fact that they were under re cognizances which could be forfeited with impunity, and on which recoveries never could be had. And if the, number of forfeited recognizances upon which prosecutions have been had, and upon which the people have failed to recover, from the fact that they were not valid, could be known, it would be found that thousands and tenis of thousands of dol lars have been lost to the people of the State of Illin(ois, for the want of a proper officer in attendance upon the ex,';minil)g courts, when parties are bound over to answer to the charge-to s e that they are bound in such a recognizarnce as will secure their attendance for trial, or that in the event of the recognizaniice being forfeited, the people shall have a reme dy, by having a bond or a recognizance upon which a recovery can be had. The presence of a county attorney in all these preliminary examinations before the j ustice of the peace, would secure to the people, in all cases, the attendance of the accused for trial, or in the event of his forfeiting his reco,gnizance, a recovery upon it. Again, Mir. President, in counties that have adopted township organization, as well as ill counties under the old system of county government, questions arise in which the counties are interested -many questions in which it becomes necessary for the counties to take legal advice oNthiing is more common, I presumie, in all the counties of the State than boards of supervisors or county c.,urts seekiug legal advice upon questions in whicl[ their counties are interested, and which boards of supervisors and courity courts, not being lawyers, are not competent to decide. If they seek that advice from a lawyer whio is not in the eniph-y of the county, he charges his counsel fee of twenjty-five or} perhaps, fifty d~)llars, depending upon the amnoun~t involved, or the impmltance of the question abo(ut which his advice is asked. Suits become necessary. Counties have to sue for moneys due them. Againl, suits are brought against the counties. Counties must becrepresented by attorneys, and if they do not have their county attorneys, they are represented by hired attorneys, so that in the course of' a year, perhaps, the amnounjt that would be expende1i by the county bo~ard.% in the employmlent of law~yers, payin~g themn for their advice, or in seculring their services, in the prosecultion or defense of suits, and in securfiig these recognizances in prosper faorlm, would be enough to pay for the services of a competenlt attorney in every county. I think that ~there are good reasons why this systemn of State's attorneys, as it now stands by law, should be abolished, and the system of c,ounty attorneys established in its place. Suppose it does create more offices than now exist, but Abbott, Cross, Allen of Cr'fd.,Fuller, Allen of Alex..Gamble, Anthony, Hart, Archer, Harwood, Benjamin, Hay, Browning, Hayes, Cameron, King, Cary, McCoy, Church, Merriam, Cody, Parks, Craig, So the motion of Mr. Fox to strike out section twenty-eight, was not agreed to The PRESIDENT. The question is uponi section twenty-eight, and it is de clared agreed to. The question is upon section twenty nine.'['he Secretary will read. Thte Secretary read section twenty-nine, as fiollows: SEc. 29. The county of Cook shall be one judicial circuit. Section twenty-nine was agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is upo.n the thirtieth section. The Secretary read section thirty, as follows: SECe. 30. The circuit court of Cook county shall consist of five judkes, until their nul) number shall be increased, as herein provided. The present judge of the recorder's court of the city of Chicago, and the present judge of the circuit court of Cook county, shall be two of said judges, and shall remain in office for the terms for which they were respectively elected and until their successors shall be elected and qualified. Three judges of said court shall be elected on the day on which this Constitution shall be submitted to the people for adoption. The PRESIDENT. Section thirty will be declared adopted. Mr. HAY. Mr. President: I do not know whether it is too lateornot to move a reconsideration of the vote by which the amendment adopted in the Committee of the Whole was concurred in, changing the report of the Judiciary pConmmittee from "four judges," in the first line, to "five;" and from "two judges," in the fifth line, to "three." I understand that to have been the change, and I would like to move a reconsideration of the vote by whichi the Convention concurred. 142 CONSTITUTIONAL CON'VENTION .AIONDAY) YEA,1,4. A-nderson, Bowman, Cii.maiings, Detnei,it, Forman, Fox, Goodhue, ITaines ofColk,Setlgwick, Halikins, Sharp' Hildrup, Sherrill, Moore, Snyder, Parker, Underwood, Peirce, Va,ndeveuter, Rice, Wait-21. NAYS. Perley, Robinson, Sctioltield, Springer, Sutherland, Tincher, Tubbs, Turner, Wa,gner, Wheaton, Wliiting-34. ABSENT, OR NOT VOTING. Atkins, Bromwell, Brown, Bryan, Buxton, Coolbaugb, Eldredge, Ellis, English, Goodell' Skinner, Hai-nes ofLake,Truesdale, I-lanua, Wall, McDowell, -W.-ishburn, Medill, Wells, Neece, Weiidling, Pillsbury, I Wilson, Poage, Wrizhf-.. Ross, Mr. Presidnt-27. APRIL 25, 1870. DEBATES D PROOEEDIGS. 143 Itsrksm?sw r eln u e a ie si ws a htw ~.3.TeGnrlAsml a n ber was fixed as it was, was that we thought at that time we would be unable to procure the extra judges; but when the explanation was made, it was universally conceded that it was right, fair, and just, that we should have what we wished. I ask nothing more in the Convention to-day. Now, I have no feeling about this matter at all. I have said half a dozen times, that I am willing to give any county in the State all thejudicial force necessary to do its business, and we ask the same thing for ourselves. Why should any gentleman object to that? I am unable to understand it. Now, as this matter was thoroughly canvassed by the Committee of the Whole, I move to lay the motion of the gentlemran from Sang:mon [Mr. Hay] upon the table. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the motion of the gentleman from Cook [Mr. Anthony], to lay upon the table the motion of the gentleman from Sangamon [Mr. Hay], to reconsider the action of the Convention, by which it concurred in the amendment of the Committee of the Whole to section thirty. The yeas and nays were ordered, and being taken, resulted-yeas, 34, nays, 18 -as follows: SEC. 32. The General Assembly may increase the number of said judges, by adding one to either of said courts for every additional fifty thousand inhabitants in said county over and above a population of four hundred thousand. Mr. PARKS. Mr. President: I wish to offer an amendment to the thirty-second section, as follows: Add to the end of section thirty-two, the following: "And whenever the population of any other county, or of two or more contiguous counties exceed fifty thousand and the business of the circuit court in said county or counties Eoccupies eight months a year, the General Assembly may make of said county or counties a separate circuit." I wish to say a single word. As this judiciary article is now, there are some counties in the State, in which it will be exceedingly difficult, if not impossible, for the circuit court business to be done. The county in which I live is one of those counties. This amendment, if adopted, may afford counties so situated, an avenue of escape from their unfortunate position. Mr. BROWNING. Mr. President: I mov,e to lay the amendment on the table, and ask for the yeas and nays. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon laying the amendment offered by the gentleman from Logan [HNr. Parks], on the table. Mr. BROWNING. M1r. President: I call for the yeas and nays. The yeas and nays were ordered, and, being taken, resulted-yeas 19; nays 38 — as follows: It strikes me as w eae a re dealing out courts with a very sparing hand to the balance of the State -while that is our action with resp ect to the remainder of the State, we are yet un necessarily profuse of ju dge s to Cook county. I am not disposed to b e illiberal, but with all the light I had on the subject, I thought we were unneces sari ly increasing, by one j udge, th e judicial force of Cook county. I move to non-concur in the amendment by which a judge additional to the numb er reported by th e Judiciary Committee was conceded to that co unty. Mr. ANTHONY. Mr. President: I hope the motion to reconsider will not prevail. When the gentleman f rom Sangamon [Mr. Hay] u ndert akes to tell what the opinions of the Presid ent of this Convention an d myself were in the Judicia ry Committee, I will say to him that he is probably slightly mistaken. My position always was that we ought to have all the judges we needed to do our business. My opinion always was that the number which was first reported was not enough. When the Judiciary Committee reported Mr. HAY. Mr. President: I would ask the gentleman if the Judiciary Committee did not put in two additional judges on his own suggestion? Mr. ANTHONY. It was because first we did not think we couid get any more. That was all the reason. When we found that the Convention, upon the facts being stated, would do us justice, and give us the additional judge, then it was that we asked it in open Convention. Now, I am unable to understand the spirit of the gentleman from Sangamon LMr. Hay] about this matter. My position upon this floor has always been that I am willing to give any county in this State all the courts it wants. I wish to say to the Convention in explanation of this matter, that we have at the present time one judge of the circuit court. The recorder's court, which is a criminal court, is to be put into the circuit court, which is to have three judges added, but one of these judges is to do criminal business all the time, one will do the chancery business, the other takes charge of the court and settle pleas; and we would not have enough in the circuit court to do our business, perhaps, even then. We do not increase thle number of the judges of the superior court, and it is the opinion, let me tell the Convention, of every judge on the bench, and of every lawyer at the Chicago bar, without an exception, that we ought to have nine judges Now, all we ask, Mr. President, here at the present time, is judges enough to do our business. W~e are not asking for one single more. W~e m~erge, for instance, the recorder's court into the circuit court, and as one of the circuit judges does the business of the recorder's cour't, that judg,e will be employ.ed every day in the year. So with a judge upon the recorder's bench, onle judge of the circuit court, as it is now, to take charge of the general docket, two to try issues of fact, and another to attend to the chancery cases, we will not have any more judges than will enable us to do our business. Now, the gentleman from Sangamon [MI. Hay] refirs to our action before the Judiciary Committee. I say to the gentleman here, and I have said it repeate~ ly, that the only reason why the nuuT 6$9 ABSENT, OR NOT VOTING. Allen of Crfd. Goodell, Skinner, Atkins, Hlaines of L'k, Springer, Bayne, Hanna, Truesdale, Bromwell, McDowell, Tubbs, Brown, Medill, Wall, Bryan, Neece, Washburn, Buxton, Parks, Wendling, Cary, Pillsbury, Wilson, Coolbaugh, Poage, Wright Eldredge, Ross. MIr. President-31. English, So the motion of Mr. Anthony to lay upon the table the motion of Mr. Hay, to reconsider the vote adopting the amendment made in Committee of the Whole to section thirty, was agreed to. Section thirty was agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the adoption of the thirty-first section. The Secretary read section thirty-one, as follows: SzEc. 31. The superior court of Chicago shall be continued, and called the superior court of Cook county. The present judges of said court shall remain in office for the terms for which they were respectively elected, and until their successors shall be elected and qualified. Section thirty-one was agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the, adoption of the thirty-second section. The Secretary read section thirty-twe, as follows: BSENT, OR NOT VOTING. Haines of LakeTruesdale, Hanna, Tubbs, McDowell, Wall, Medill, Washburn, Neece, Wendling, Pillsbury, Wilson Poage, Wright, Ross, Mr. President-26. Skinner, So the motion of Mr. Browning, to lay upon the table the amendment offered by Mr. Parks, was not agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the amendment offered by the gentleman from Logan [Mr. Parks]. The Secretary read the amendment offerred by Mr. Parks, as follows: Add to the end of section thirty-two, the following: "And whenever the population of any other county, or of two or more contiguous counties exceed fifty thousand, and the business of the circuit court in said county or counties occupies eight months a year, the General Assembly may make of said county or counties a separate court. Mr. CARY. Mr. President: If this amendment is adopted, I think we by APRIL 25, 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1473 YEAS. Abbott, Fuller, Allen of Alex.,Goodhue, Anderson, Hankins, Anthony, Harwood, Archer, Haves, Benjamin Hildrup, Bowman, Ki Cameron, 3,(foy, Craig, Moore, Cummings, Parker, Dement, Robinson, Forman, Perley, Beholfield, Sherrill' Sutherland, Snyder, Turner, Vandeventer, Wagner, Wait, Wheato 'n' Whiting-34. YEAS. Abbott, Cameron, Allen of Alxln,Carv. Allen, of Crw'dCummings, Anderson, Ellis, Archer' Forman, Bowmn, Fox, Browning, Haines of Cook Hankins, King, Robinson, Sharp, Snyder9. NA.YS. Gamble' Rice, Haines of Co'k,Sedgwick, Hart, Sharp, Ray; Tincher' I Merriam. Underwood, Peirce. Wells-18. Browning, Ch-urch, Cody' Cross, Ellis, Fox, NAYS. Hay, Hayes, I ildrup, N'.CCOY, lt'erriam, Moore, Parker, Parks, Perley, Peirce, Rice, Scholfield, gedgwick, Anthony, Bayne, Benjamin, Church, Cody, Craig, Cross, Dement, Fuller, Gaml)le, Goodhue, Hart, Harwood, Sherrill, SDrineer BiLthrla'nd, Tincher, Turner, Underwood, Vandeventer, Wa,-ner, waft, Wells, Wheaton, Whiting-38. Atkins, Bromwell, Brown, Bryan, Buxton, Coolbau-,b, 11 Eldredae, EnL-lisfi-.' Go6dell'I i4 COSTITIITIOAL ()OYETIO MONDAY, Jo Daviess [Mr. Cary] is determined to slander and villify the bar, which we have heard complimented so highly. He would have us believe that the judge, exalted by the people to the high and honored position of adjudicating upon the interests and estates of his fellow men, would so far lower his dignity and demean himself as to extend the time of adjudicatiug cases, by holding the term of court only an hour or three hours a day, when the business could be accomplished in half or quarter of the time, for the sake of a paltry three thousand dollars and an additional circuit-thus violating the spirit, while coming within the requirements of the law. Sir, I do not believe that such a calumny attaches to the bench or bar in this State. I believe they are above such narrow methods of escaping constitutional provisions, as the gentleman has delineated and would have us believe. The gentleman says that, if we adopt this amendment, it will be repealing our action of the other day, in limiting the number of the population in the judicial circuits to 100,000. Take it for granted that it will have that effect. I believe those who are in favor of this amendment propose to reconsider the action of the Convention limiting the population of circuits to 100,000. I believe justice and right demand it. I can see no reason why we should have an arbitrary and inflexible rule requiring that in every circuit there should be 100,000 population, when the records of the courts show that the judges are not able, by ordinary effort, to finish the business on the dockets of such counties within eight months, or even twelve months. Now, sir, I happen to live in a judicial circuit where there are not 60,000 inhabitants, yet I believe that within the last twelve months court has been held in that circuit more than eight months. With this state of things, it seemsto me it is unjust and unfair to say inflexibly in the Constitution that in the agriculturaldistricts, in every region outside of Cook county, there shall be 100,000 inhabitants to every judicial circuit, when Cook county is to have a judge for every 50,000. If we go before the people with a Constitution containing such unjust and inequitable provisions, it will be difficult to defend it. The people are not disposed to believe that the inhabitants of Cook county have rights and interests in the courts above those of the rural districts. They are not willing to believe that one man in Cook county is entitled to rights equal to two men in the other parts of the St te. All that they require is that their business shall be done pro aptly.t No one can charge me with having any pecaniary or personal interest in the matter myself. Not belonging to the bar of which we have heard so much, not being a member of that learned profession, I think I can safely make an appeal to this Convention, to do justice and equity in this matter without an imputation upon my motives. I say, as a matter of fact, it has been shown here that the limit of one hundred thousand population to a judicial circuit will work great injustice, and in certain portions of the State, will prove a substantial denial of justice. Mr. FOX. Does the Constitution limit as well go back and review our action from the commencement. We have voted to limit circuits to an average of one hundred thousand in the State. If we vote this in, we may as well strike out the one hundred thousand, and le tve the whole matter to the Legislature. If not we will have a circuit court to every fifty thousand people, all over the State. If this is adopted in its present form, I cer tainly think we may as well review our action from the beginning. The Legislature is very likely to make as many circuit judges as are allowed by the Constitution. I consider this section almost equivalent to declaring that there shall be a circuit judge for every fifty thousand inhabitants in the State. The records of decisions show that it is not needed, and it is also shown conclusively, by members on this floor, who are cogni zant of all the facts. Mr. PARKS. With the gentleman's permission, I would ask-does he mean to deny what the gentleman from McLean [Mr. Benjamin] and I have said, over and over again, that in our circuit we need more judges than one to every one hundred thousand? We have said that repeatedly; and the gentleman from McLean [Mr. Benjamin] has introduced facts and figures in support of the statement. Does the gentleman dispute them? Mr. CARY. I do not. I am willing that the gentleman from McLean [Mr. Benjamin], and the gentleman from Logan [Mr. Parks], should have as many circuit judges as they need to do their business, but I am not willing to leave the bars down, so that there will be a circuit judge for every fifty thousand people in the State, because it is not needed, and it will make a useless and uncalled for expense. When we are told that there are circuit courts in this State large circuits-where the judges are employed only eight weeks in the year, I want to know if there isany necessity of creating still more judges, when there is a chance for the Legislature to equalize these circuits, and give the gentleman from Logan [Mr. Parks] all the judicial force he needs? I do not believe in leaving th;s question all open, and presenting an opportunity to create ten or fifteen oi twenty more such circuits as we are told do now exist. Mr. PEIRCE. This amendment only applies in cases where the amount of business exceeds eight months in the year, instead of eight weeks. Mr. CikRY. I understand that, sir; butI am well aware that means can bec adopted by which the courts can be extended so as to make them eight mnonths in the year. I know of a circuit in this State, composed of only two counties, and in that they have, in addition to the circuit court, courts held in two cities. A lawyer on this floor has told me that he has practiced in a court where lbusiness was transacted only three hours in a day; and it ran along in that way. If this is allowed to go on, and this amendment is adopted, I see nothing to prevent extravagance and the reckless use of the people's money, in creating circuits where they are not needed, andi I hope, sir, it will not be adopted. Mr. PEIRCE. M~r. President: We have listened to-day to a beautiful eulogy upon the honest lawyers-upon the dignity and importance of the legal profession. *-it seems to me that the G~entleman from 1474 CONSTITUTIONAL COI'QVENTION 31ONDAY) circuits to one hundred thousand inhabit tants? Mr. PEIRCE. It does substantially and practically limit the circuits to that number. Mr. SPRINGER. Mr. President: I did not intend to say anything further upon this question, it having been voted upon over and over again. But it is a question that involves the rights of'the people to an extent that will justify me in taking a moment to say just a word. I am thoroughly convinced that the people are better able to determine what courts they want than we are, and that they have the right, not merely the privilege, to have all the courts they may think necessary for their security or conveinience. The government belongs to them. They created it and bear its expenses. But when we say justice shall be denied them, or that the courts of their government shall be closed to them becau'se they are not collected together in sufficient numbers to secure a colirt under the provision we have previously made, we are doing them injustice. We are told that in some circuits, court is only held eight weeks, while in other circuits, court is held eight or nine months in a year, notwithstanding which it is claimed they shall have no additional judges, no matter how great the demand, because they do not have over 100,000 inhabitants, and because there are small., circuits- where there are only eight weeks of court in the year. The General Assembly can correct the evil in small circuits bv enlarging them, Uut it cannot correct iE in large circuits unless it has the power to contract their limits. I would like to see some disposition to deal fairly with this question. We tell gentlemen we have r, ot time to do the business of large circuits, and to get more time we must have more courts. Yet they tell us they know our business better than we know it ourselves. It looks to me as if not an insult, at least assuming to possess greater knowledge than they probably have. If the county courts were established by the Constitution, with their j'uri,-diction defined, then we might, with some DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. M was agreed to, and the main question orb dered. The question then being on the adop tion of the amendment offered by Mr. Church, to the amendment offered by Mr. Parks) to strike out "eight," and insert "nine," the amendment was agreed. The question then being on the adop tion of the amendment offered by Mr. Parks, as amended, The Secretary read the amendment, as amended, as follows: Add to the end of section thirty-two the following: "And whenever the population of any other county, or of two or more con tiguous counties, exceeds fifty thousand, and the business of the circuit court in said county or counties, occupies nine months a year, the General Assembly may make of saidcounty or counties a separate circuit." The yeas and nays were ordered, and being taken, resulted-yeas, 39; nays, 19 -as follows: Mr. CHURCH. Mr. President: I voter agains t laying the amendment of th gentleman from Logan [Mr. Parks] oi the table, in order that it m ight Mb amended and adopted, so that it migh guar d against any unfairness on the par of the General Assembly hereafter. Now, sir, with all the deba te that ham occ urred upon th e qu estion (and it ha, become a v ery v exed one), no gentleman has yet said that there should be more circuit judges in the State than there are now. It is not denied by any gentleman but w hat t h e provisions now uade would provide fore thirty judges, as the popu lation now is, whereas we have only twenty-nine, and it is not claimed that we should have more. Mr. GOODHUE. Mr. President: I would ask whe the r, if we trust this ques tion to the Legislature, some courts would not be compelled to sit six months in t he y ear, and other s t wenty-four? [Laughter]. Mr. CHURCH. Mr. President: It equalizes itself. The question answers it self. If it can b e t rusted in one case, the Legislature ca n be trusted in another. I h old it is our bus iness t o limit t he G e neral Assembly in s ome regard. We should be able to mold the Constitution in such a shape that when called upon to make an increase of compensation, we pray have something we can refer to as a check, whereby the Constitution, in its financial aspect, should be defended. Now, as I commenced observing, I voted against laying this upon the table, in order that the amendment might be perfected, so that it would guard against any unfairness hereafter, either by design or accident. I can imagine, sir, cases where the Legislature may divide the State into circuits with apparent fairness, and circumstances may arise in six years, (during which there will be no power to change the circuit5,) such that there will not be time to transact the business. More than eight months should be named before it is said that there is not time to hold the courts. I will move to amend the amendment of the gentleman from Logan [Mr. Parks] by inserting "nine" instead of "eight," that judges may do at least three-fourths of the labor thiat other people are required to do in a fi~r businless. I have no doubt that circuits can and will be formned so that there will be not mnore than one judge to) one hundred thousand inhabitants throughout the State —it is all a rural State except Chlicago. I have no doubt that it will be equalized, so that there will be more circuit judges than are provided for by this Constitution and yet he circuit judges enough to do the business for the whole State. In case? however, that any mtistakes of that kind occur, and it shall be found that the judges are employed more than nine months in lhe year,- I have no objection to a clause in the Constitution to afford relief. I move to strike out "eight" and insert 'nine."! will suggest that other amnendments shsould be made before the section -will be ill proper form four adoption. I think "ten" would not be out of the way, but I will only mol(ve "nine." Mr. SNYDER. MSr. Pr esident: I move the previous question. The motion for the previous question YEAS. McCoy, Merriam, M.oore, Parker, Parks, Peirce, Poage, Scholfield, Sedgwick, Sherrill, NAYS. Springer, Sutherland, Turner, Underwood, Vandeventer, Wagner, Wait, Wells, Wheaton Whiting — 30. Sedgwick, Sherrill, Springer, Sutherland, Tincher, Turner, Underwood, Vandeventer, Wagner, Wait, Wells, Wheaton, Whiting-39. Abbott, C ody, Hart, Allen, of Alex. Cross, Harwood, Anderson, Cummings, Hay, Archer, Ellis, Perley, Bowman, Forman, Rice, Browning, Fox, Robinson, Cameron, Fuller, Sharp, Cary, Haines'ofCook,Snyder, Church, Hankins, Tincher-27. ABSENT OR NOT VOTING. Allen of Crfd. Goodell, Truesdale, Atkins, Haines of LakeTubbs, Bromwell, Hanna, Wall, Brown, McDowell, Washburn, Bryan, Medill, Wendling, Buxton, Neece, Wilson, Coolbaugh, Pillsbury, Wright, Eldredge, Ross, Mr. President-26. English, Skinner, Atkins, Haines of L'ke,Truesdale, cromwell, Hanna, Tubbs, Brown, McDowell, Wall, Bryan, Medill, Washburn, Buxton, Neece, Wendling, Coolbaugh, Pillsbury, Wilson, Eldredge, Ross, Wright, English, Skinner, Mr. President-25. Goodell, So the amendment offered by Mr. Parks as amended by Mr. Church, was agreed to.v bMr. ARCHER. Mr. President: I move that the Convention do now adjourn. The motion was not agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the section, as amended. Mr. CARY. Mr. President: Are amendments in order? - The PRESIDENT. Amendments are in order. Mr. CARY. I move, sir, to strike out "fifty-" and insert "one hundred," in the second line of section thirty-two. Mr. MERRIAM. I move, sir, to lay that motion on the table. The motion was agreed to. Mr. PEIRCE. Mr. President: I move to reconsider the vote by which the amendment of the gentleman from Logan [M]r. Parks] was adopted, and I move to lay the motion to reconsider on the table. Mr. CUMMINGS. Mr. President: I move the Convention do now adjourn. The motion was not agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the motion to lay the motion to reconsider upon the table. A division was ordered. Abbot t, Cary, Allen of Alex.,Church, Anderson, Cody, Archer, Craig, Bowman, Cummings, Browning, - Ellis, Cameron, Forman, NAYS. Anthony, King, Bayne, McCoy, Benjamin, Merriam, Cross, Meore, Dement, Parker, Fuller, Parks, Gamble, Perley, Goodhue, Peirce, Haines of CookPoaze. Hart, Rice, Harwood, Se-holfield, Hayes, Sedgwick, Pidr, APRIL 25, 1870. 1475 The Convcntion divided, when, there being t,hirty-.five in the affirmative and ten in the negative, the motion was agreed to. Mr. ANDERSON. Mr. President: I move to insert "seventy-five" in the second line, in the place of "fifty." Mr' VANDEVENTER. I move to lay that motion on the table. Mr. FORMAN. Mr. President: I move the Convention do now adjourn. The motion was not agreed to.. The question being on the motion of Mr. Vandeventer, to lay the amendment offered by Mr. Anderson upon the table, the yeas and nays were ordered, and being taken, result,ed-yeas 30, nays 27as follows: Anthony, Bayne, Behjaiiain, Craiz. Dent, Gamble, Goodhue, -'a p I y Ilildrup, King, YEAS. Hayes, Hifdr,Lip, Kn g, -' C.yl Merriam, Moore, Parker, Parks,' Perley, I Peirce, P?age, Rice, Scholfield, A.nthony, Bayne, Benjafiiin, Ch-Lrch, Codv.' Craig, Cross, Dement, Gamble, Goodhue, Hart, Harwood, Hay, NATS. Abbott, Cameron, Allen, ofAIx. Cary, A-Ile,nofcwfld, Cummings, Anderson, Ellis, Archer' Forman, Bowmn, Fox, Browning, Fuller, Haines,of Cook Hankins, Robinson, Sharp, Snyder-19. ABSENT, OR NOT VOTING. Illaines of Llke,Truesdale, I Hanna, Tubbs, McDowell, Wall, - Medill, Washburn, Neece, Wendling, I I Pillsb tiry, Wilson, . Ross, Wright, Skinner, Mr. Prer,ide-ut-25. So the motion of Mr. Vandeventer, to lay upon the table the amendment offered by Mr. Anderson, to insert "seventy-five" in Place of "fifty," was agreed to. Th PRESIDENT. The Chair has committed an error, in entertaining the motion, as the Convention is acting under the previous question, and the question is upon the adoption of the section as amended. Mr. CARY. Mr. President: I move tha,, we now adjourn, and upon that motion I call for the yeas and nays. The yeas and iiays were ordered, and being taken, resulted-yeas, 20, nays, 37 -as follows: YEA$. FO'X, Hanldns, flay, Robinson, Sbarp, Snyder-20. Sherrill, Springer, Sutherland, Tincher, Turner, Underwood, Vandeventer, Wagner, - Wait, Wells,, Wheaton, Whitin7. I 674 iOSI[TOA )OY~INTED Our Father in Heaven, we thank Thee for that kind preserving care Thou hast had over us during the night that is just past, for the light of this day, and for the privilege to gather and attend to the business which is now before this body. May all its acts be imbued with the spirit of wisdom and fidelity, and truth and righteousness, that in all their wo rk they may so act as to be able to review it in the future with a conscience void of offense, and recollecting in all their doings the guidance, counsel and direction of God. f 0, Lord Jesus, bless Thy servant who is called to preside over this body. Direct him; give him the strength, the patience, the fortitude needed in his circumstances, and may the God of peace direct in all the Work of this Convention, and grant that it may be so performed and so finished that in the future the people of the State shall have every occasion to rejoice in their service. Bless, we pray Thee, those who are in public station throughout the State. Give them wisdom and grace according to their necessities. Lead them by counsel altogether divine, and accomplish through them Thy good will toward the people of thils State. We pray for Thy coming and the kingdom of the blessed Lord and Saviour. Let Thy name, Lord, be honored in all human relations here, and Thy law of righteousness, truth and Christian goodness prevail in all human interests; and fill Thou this State, which Thou has blest so largely in the past, with all the demonstrations of Thy goodness and faithfulness in the future.' Let Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done on the earth even as it is done in Heaven, and to God the [Father, Son and Holy Spirit be everlasting praise. Amen. READING OF THE JOURNAL. The Secretary proceeded to read the journal of the last day's proceedings, when — Mr. DEMENT. Mr. President: I move to dispense with the further reading of the journal. The motion was agreed to. LEAVE OF ABSENCE. Mr. PEIRCE. Mr. President: I desire to ask leave of absence for Mr. Garrard, Assistant Postmaster of the Convention. Leave was granted nem. con. RAILROADS AND CANALS. The PRESIDENT. The Chair desires to lay before the Convention, resolutions adopted by a convention of farmers, held at Bloomington, Illinois, the resolutions having been directed to the Convention by the secretary of that convention. The Secretary will read the resolutions. Mr. WELLS. Mr. President: I move agreed t~~~ ~ ~~o. dispense with the reading of those MrDEET MrPrsdn:Id Mr. EIRC. I oveto rconsderresolutions, and to refer them to the ntko hti sncsayt ee h thevot bywhch hissecio wa adp-Committee on Canal and Canal Lands. mto ftegnlmnfo era[r ted an moe hatmoton e aidon he ["Read," "Read." Wel]'u]f ti,Irnw t n nv table. ~~~~~Mr. WELLS. Well, read them. I httecp fte rceig n h The moion ws agred to.withdraw the motion to dispense withreouinberfretoteCnmte The RESIENT. The ueston i onthe reading.onCnladCnlLns the hiry-tird ecton,and t i adpt- The Secretary read the resolutions, as Thmoinwsareto ADJOURNMENT. ~~WHtEREA~S, All free governments are institu-STTAI TORIRASAD ANL ted for the purpose of securing right, justice, M.IANS fCo.M.Peiet Mr. SHRP. Mr Presdent: moveand equality of privileges to the people, there Iwstopsutacmuiainfo The motion was agreed t. Resolved, That all legislation chartering teBado rd ftect fCia So te Coventon (t fie o'lockandrailroad and other corporations, which by anygo fair construction can be used to oppress any [h omncto sa olw: thirtyseven inute) adjorned.portion of the people, by unjust and extor-i tionate charges, is to that extent subversiveBODOFTAEOTHCTYOCHcG, EIGHTIETH DAY ~~~of the end for which the government was s-ScetaysOfiei______ ~~~tablished, and is, therelore, null and void,CHcO,Arl1t,10. and should be so declared by the courts. HO..C.HNE,SrnfedIlios TUESDAY April 6,187. Resolved, That railroad companies are in erirAaveyflmetnofti TileConvntio metat nne ocloc A.their nature publiccorporations, subject to be Bad edo h vnn fteeeet K., nd ws clledto oderby te Prsi-regulated and controlled by legislation, andistn,tefloigpemlanreon that this principle should be plainly so de- to a,atrtedsuso fteqeto dent. d~~~~~~~~~cared in the organic law. o nrae aa aiiis nnmul rHAYER. R~~~~esolved, That the claim of vested rights, aotda h xrsino h or st Prayr ws ofere bythe ev.Mr.set up by chartered companies, by whichwhtteCntttoaCovninogtt they assume that the people have transferredsumtothsqeto,aapatothStt Jiale of Sringfeld, s fols: -to said companies an essential portion of.Cnttto,vz ABSENT, OR NOT VOTING. Allen of Crwfd,Goodell, Truesdale, Atkins, Haines of Lake,Tubbs, Bromwell, Hanna, Wall, Brown, McDowell, Washburn, Bryan, Medill, Wendling, ]Buxton. Neece, Wilson, Coolbaugh, Pillsbury, Wright, Eldredge, Ross, Mr. President-26. English, Skinner, ABSENT, OR NOT VOTING. Allen, of Cr'fd,Goodell, Truesdale, Atkins, Haines of LakeTubbs, Bromwell, Hanna, Wall, Brown, McDowell, Washburn, Bryan, Medill, Wendling, Buxton, Neece, Wilson, Coolbaugh, Pillsbury, Wright, Eldredge, Ross, gr.. President-26. English, Skinner, So section thirty-two, as amended, was agreed to. Mr. PEIRCE. I move to reconsider the vote by which this section was adopted, and move that motion be laid on the table. The motion was agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is on the thirty-third section, and it is adopt ADJOURNMENT. SIr. SHARP. Mr President: I move that the Convention do now adjourn. The motion was agreed to. So the Convention (at five o'clock and thirty-seven minutes) adjourned. CONSTITUTIONAL COlliVENTION 6741 Tu.Es-D,&Y, their sovereignty, is an assumption which cannot be safely tolerated in a free government. Resolved, That, the practice of the railway companies delivering grain to warehouses owned or operated by private individuals, without the consent, and against the protest of the grain-owners and shippers, thereby subjecting them to extortionat'arges, and still more extortionate frauds, is a highhanded violation of law and justice, calling for united action on the part of the people to redress and y-unish such unjustifiable acts. Resolved, That the tendency of railroad companies to form combinations and consolidations, and, through them, by corrupt means, to influence Legislatures and courts to further their selfish interests, and establish more firmly their power, is the most threatening political evil of the times, and should be met with instant and decided opposition, both in primary assemblies, and at the pollis. -Resolved, That water channels are the cheapest of all known methods of transporting freights, and thelisurest and most comprehensive means of controlling railroad charges by competition; and we therefore urge upon the Constitutional Convention the propriety of PI a-c,n on the t'ull develop t no restrictions up mn the -vast resources of the State of Illinois. Resolved, That we hereby indorse and adopt as ourown the following resolution, recently adopted by the board of trade of Chicago, viz: I'-Resolved, That the delegates to the Constitutional Convention are hereby requested, in case no more liberal amendment can be made, to modify that part of the article on canals, adopted by them, which reads as follows:'The General Assembly stiall never loan the credit of the State, or make appropriations from the treasury thereof, in aid of railroads or canals: Provided, thai any rurplus earnings ofany canal may be appropriated for its enlargement or extension,' so as to read, 'the General Assembly rha.11 never loan the credit of the State or make appropriations from the treasury thereof, in aid of railroads or canals: Provided, that the State may loan :Its credit for an amount of money, th6interest upon which will not exceed the net revenue ofthe canal and improved rivers, for the enlargement ofthe Illinois and Michigan eanAl ad the construction of a canal from the Illinois river, at or near Hennepin, to some point on the Mississippi river, with necessary navigable feeders.' )) Resolved, That this Convention recommend the formation of town, county, State and national transportation leagues, whose object shall be to procure the necessary legislation for the regulation of fares and freights on all railroads in the State, by a just and equitable rule, andto provide that such enactments ire properly sustained before the courts. J. H. BRYAN, President. W. W. CORBETT, Secretary. So the motion of 31r. Car to adjourn was not agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon section thirty-two, as amended. The Secretary read section thirty-two, as amended, as follows: ISEc. 32. The General Assembly may increase the number of said judges by adding one to either of said courts, for every additional fifty thousand inhabitants in said county over and above a population of four hundred thousand; and whenever the population of any other county, or two or more contiguoas counties exceeds, fifty thousand, -and the business of the circuit courts in said county or counties occupies nine months a year, the General Assembly may make of said county or counties a separate circuit. The yeas and nays were ordered, and, being taken, res?ilted-veas, 39; yeas, 18 -as follows: v YEAS. r, Anthony, Bayne,. BeDjamin, Cameron, Church, Cody,. Craig, Cross, Dement, Fuller, Gamble, Goodhue, Hart, Harwood, Sedgwick Hayes, Sherrill, Hildrup, Springer, King, Sutherland, .AICCOY, Tinche,r, Merriam, Turner, Moore, Underwood, Parker, Vandevente Parks, Wagner, Perley, 11 v r, Vt, Peire Wells, Po'age Wheaton, Rice, Whitirg-s NA.YS. Cary, Hankins, CUMM!DGS, Hay, Ellis, Robinson, Forman, Scholfield, Fox, Sharp, Haines of CookSnyder-18. Abbott, Allen of Alex, Anderson, Ar,oher, Bowman, Browning, ed. STATE AID TO RAILROADS AND CANALS I*lr. HAINES, of Cook. Mr. Presideiat: I wish to present a communication from the Board of Trade of the city of Chica. go. [The comniuiiication is as follows:] BOA,ITD OF TRADE OF TIIE CITY OF CIIICAGO, Secretary's Office, C.UICAGO, April 16th, 1870. Ho.,N. J. C. HAiwps, Spr!Dgfield, Illinois: -Dear Sir-At a very full meeting of this Board, held on the evening of thceleventh iurtant, the following preamble and resolution was, after the discu8s!ou of the question of increased canal facilities, unanimously adopted as the expression of the Board as to what the Constitutional Convention ought to ,submit on this question, as a part of theState Constitution, viz: . 6 4 0 EIGIRTIET.U DAY. TUESDAY, April 26, 1870. The Convention met at nine o'clock A. m., and,wis called to order by the President.,I PRAYER. Prayer was offered by the Rev. Mr. Hale, of Springfield, as fols: API 26 80.DBTSAI)IRCEIG.17 Wand referred to the Committee on Legis. lative Departm ent: If any member of the General Assembly shall agree to vote for or against any bill, in consideration that any other member has vot ed or shall agre e to vot e fo r or against any other bill, he s all be held guilty of briber y, and be forever disqualified from membership in the General Assembly, and be punished as may be provided by law.' EVENING SESSIONS. Mr. PEIRCE. Mr. President: I de sire to present the foliowing resolution for adoption. The Secretray read the resolution offer ed by Mr. Peirce, as follows: Reesolved, That hereafter the Convention will hold evening sessions, commencing at seven and a half P. M., until otherwise order ed. The PRESIDENT. The resolution'can only be entertained by general consent. ["Object," "object "] POSTPONEMENT OF SPECIAL ORDER. Mr. BROWNlNG. Mr. President: The report of the Committee on Munici pal Corporations was made the special order for this morning. I move its post ponement u,til the consideration of the judiciary article shall have been com pleted. Mr. WALL. Mr. President: I would suggest to the gentleman from Adams [Mr. Brownit,g], that since the recess we have been en,gaged in the consideration of the revenue article, the report of the Committee on Counties, and the judiciary article. The first two may appropriately come up for disposition, after the disposi tij(n of the article now before us. I suggest that we take them up first, and then the article to which the gentleman refers. Mr. BROWNING. A,lr. President: I will not object to that when the proper time comes. There are so many orders fixed for specific days, that I do not know what day to name for this. We can let it ruu along, till the other articles named are disposed of, and then call it up. Mr. WALL. Mr. President: I will move that the special order, as sooTn as the Co)nvention is through with the present order, be the article on counties. Mr. BROWNING. Mr. President: I have no objection to that at all. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the motion of the gen~tleman from Adams [Mr. Browning], that the special order relating to municipal corporations be postponed until after the consideration of theu report of the Committee on Counties. The motion was agreed to. JUDICIAL DEPARTMEANT. The PRIESIDENTr. Section thirtyrthree was adopted yesterday; and the question)L now is on section thirty-four} which the Secretary will read. Mr. CODY. Section thirty-three was not adopted yesterday, if I remember rightly. the PRESIDENT. It was adopted. If the gentleman desires to amend, he can mauve to reconsider the adoption, or the joulrnl may be corrected, it' there is any error. Mr. CODY. I desire to have stricken out tie words "except as herein provided." They were intended to apply only to circuit judges, in reference to whom it is now provided that they shall hold th~eir office uutil their present terms exspire. Mr. HIAYES. The Committee on Revisin~n can don that.f So the resolutions were referred to the Committee onil Canal and Canal Lands. FEMALE SUFFRAGE. Mr. HAYES presented a petition from Mrs. Mary Bartlett and one hundred and sixty-five others, against woman suffrage. The petition was referred to the Committee on the Right of Suffrage. REMOVAL OF COUNTY SEATS. Mr. VANDEVENTER presented a petition from John H. Good and one hundred and forty-one others, of Virginia, Cass county, Illinois, with regard to the removal of county seats. The petition was ordered to lie upon she table, to be considered in connection with the report of the Comnmittee on Counties. WHEREAS, In view of the present and prospective decline in value of the products of the field and factory, cheap transportation has become an imperative necessity to meet the pressing demands of couammrce: therefore, Resolved, That the delegates in the Consti. tutional Conventi(:n are hereby requested, in case no more liberal amendment can be made to modify that part of the article on canals adopted by them, which reads as follows: "The General Assembly shall never loan the credit of the State, or make appropriations from the treasury thereof, etc.," so as to read: "The General Assembly shall never loan the credit of the State, or make appropriations from the treasury thereof in aid of railroads or canals: Provided, that the State may loan its credit for an amount of money the interest upon which will not exceed the net revenue of the canal and improved rivers, for the enlargement of the Illinois and Michigan Canal, and the construction of a canal from the Illinois river at or near Hennel,)in to some point on the Mississippi river, with necessary navigable leeders." Trusting that you may indorse, and the Convention adopt something at least as favorable to the ultimate construction of this work, and asking that you will, if you deem best, present the same on behalf of the board, I am, very respectfully, CIIAS. RANDOLPH, Secretary. T he comtmunication was referred to the Comlmittee on Canal and Canal Lands. ILLINOIS AND MICHIGAN CANAL. Mr. WEi LLS. Mr. President: I present a preamn ble and resolution adopted by e i oneo the board of the city of Peoria, referring to ther same subject. I m o ve that t hey b e print e,ad a iat large, and ask that it take the same course. [rhe preamble and resolutions are as follows:] PEORIA, Ill., April 20, 1870. The following resolutions were adopted by the board oI trade of Peoria, Illin,,is. E. S. WILCOX, Chairman of Com. WHEREAS, Cheap transportation to and from market of' the great staple products of humau industry stimaulat s agriculture, manufactures and trade, and has a direct influence in givin~ig higher wages to the producer, and a greater valiety of products to the consulmier, thus alleviating and improving the condition of individuals and the race; and, WHasmrs, Navigable waters offer the natural, easiest and cheapest means of transportation, therefore, -Resolved, By the Peoria board of trade, that the Constitutional Convention,now in session at Springfield, be most earnestly requested to so revise, amend or supplement its late action in the matter of canals and rivers, as to aid and Io:-ter within reastorable rimits, the conrtiniued, permanent and en~larged use of the valuable franchise which nature has bfestowed on our State ill the Illino~is river, and which thle loresightt of ibrmner Legislatures provided in tile Illinois arid Michigan canal. The Pi~ESIDlENr. The question is upon the reference of the comrmunication to tile Commlittee onL Canlal and Canal Lands. Mir. McCOY. ]~r. President: Is it too late to mnake all amendtment? The P~RESI1DENT2. An amendment by way of instructions to the committee, would be in order. No other amendment is in corder. Mr. McCOY. The amendment that I pr'opose, Ad'. President, is that the resolutions lie upoen the table, and be considers ed iso connectiona with the report of the Committee on Railroads anld:Elevators. The PRESIDENt. It is nolt ill order inasmuchl as both the mention to commit, and the nation to lay on the table are secondary motions, and not applicable to one anlother. The motion of Mir. Wells was agreed FEMALE SUFFRAGE-AGAIN. Mr. PERLEY presented a petition, signed by Mrs. John P. Harmon and one hundred others, women of Henry, Marshall county, protesting against woman suffrage. The petition was referred to the Committee on the Right of Suffrage. OBSERVANCE OF THE SEVENTH DAY. Mr. FORMAN presented a petition from certain citizens of Fayette county, praying that a clause be inserted in the Constitution of the State, requiring the Legislature to make laws for the proper observance of the seventh day of the week. The petition was referred to the Committee on Bill of Rights. RAILROAD TARIFF. Mr. WELLS. Mr. President: I wish to present a resolution bearing upon the question of transportation, which I desire to have read, laid upon the table, and considered with other propositions bearing upon that subject. The Secretary read the resolution oft fered by Mr. Wells, as follows: The right heretofore granted, or that may hereafter be granted to any railroad company to impose tolls for th: transportation of freight or passengers, shall be construed to nmean the right to imipose reasonable tolls, only, and shall never be construed to confer the right to impose unreasonable or extort iotnate tolls. Laws may be passed to enable any railroad company to ascertain through the aid of the courts, what are reasonable tolls. Mr. WELLS. I move that two hundred copies be printed, and the resolution lie upon the table to be considered with other propositions bearing upon t his question. The motion was agreed to. FEMALE SUFFRAGE —AGAIN. Mr. GOODHUE. Mr. President: I desire to) present the following resolution. The Secretary read the resolution offered by Mr Goodhue, as follows: Resolved, That the Committee on Revision be instruc ed to sti ike out the section heretofore adopted by this Convention, submitting to a vote of tihe pet,ple the question of female suffrage. The PRESIDENT. It would not be in order to present resolutions for action at the present time. Mr. GOODHUE. Mr. President: I did not de sire to have the Convention act upon it a t pr esent. The resolution was laid upon the table for future action. BRIBERY. Mr. WELLS offered the following resolution, which was r(ad by the Secretary 370 APRIL 26, 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1477 to. p CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION Mr. CODY. Then I will not make any shall receive the same compensation as the motion now. circuit judges. The Secretary read section thirty-four, Mr. ANTHONY. It was not so intendasfollows: ed, but I think he should receive the SEc. 34. Any judge of either of said courts same, because the judge of that county shall'have all the powers of a circuit judge, sits almost every day in the year. and may hold the court of which he is a mem- Mr. TURNER. I think that may be ber. Each of them may hold a different s. I know it isso in our county, and branch thereof at the same time. The PRESIDENT It will bedeclared several other counties, that the judge The PRESIDENT. It will be declare holds court almost continually. I do not adopted. The question is on section know any reason why the county judge thirty-five. know by law." heaacthirty.five. of Cook county should receive any more The Secretary read section thirty-five compensation out of the State treasury as follows: as follows: than any other county judge. SEC. 35. The judge having the shortest un- Mr. ALLEN of Crawford. Mr. Presiexpired term shall be chief justice of the. court of which he is a judge. In case there dent: I desire to ask the gentleman it are two or more whose terms expire at the the present county judges receive anysame time, it may be determined by lot. thing from the State whatever, or wheth The PRESIDENT. It will be dcelared er there is anything in this article giving adopted. The question is now on section them anything out of the State treasury? thirty six. Mr. TURNER. They receive compen The Secretary read section thirty-six, sation from the county treasury.'lhe as follows: proposition is to pay the county judges of Cook county out of the State treasury as SEc. 36. The judges of said courts and the State's attorney in said county shall receive much as they pay the circuit judges, and the same salaries, payable cut of the State make it exclusively a State court, so far treasury in the same manner as is or may be as compensation is concerned. paid to the circuit judges and State's attor- Mr. ANTHONY. Mr. President: At neys of the State, and such further compen- sation, to be paid by the county of Cook te tme I made that motion, I supposed as is or may be provided by law. Such coin- the provision would be that the county pensation shall not be changed during their judges would receive something, at least, continuance in office. out of the State treasury. I want to put Mr. ANTHONY. Mr. President: I the judges all upon the same footing. desire to make a little correction. In Mr WHEATON. Mr. President: Per that section, after the word "courts," inll haps it would be better to add after the first line, add "ani the judge of the the word "State" in the third line, the county or probate court." It will be words seen that unless we put that in, Cook And the county judge of said county may co)unty would be prohibited f, om allow- receive such compensation as may be provided iag any further compensation whatever, by law. because section sixteen, at the end of it, Mr. ANTHONY. Mr. President: I provides that no judge of any court will accept that amnendment. shall receive any other compensation, Mr. HAY. Mr. President: I would perquisite or benefit in any form whatev- suggest the propriety of striking out er, nor perform any other than judicial "State's attorney," wherever it occurs in duties, to which may belong any emolu- this section. If the Convention abides ments. by its action, in making these prosecuting Mr. CODY. I desire to suggest to the attorneys, county attorneys, I suppose it gentleman from Cook [Mr. Anthony], is admitted that they are to be paid out that in the body of this Constitution we of the county treasury. hi ve failed to provide for State's Attor- Mr. CODY. Mr. President: They are neys. called "State's attorneys" in section twen Mr. HAYES. In answer to the sug ty-eight. gestion of the gentleman from Da Page Mr. HAY. Yes, sir; but I do not [-ir. Cody], I would remark that the think there ought to be any implication c)unty attorney is still attorney for the left, that if we make these attorneys, State. "State's Attorney" is proper. county attorneys, they are to be paid out Mr. TURNER. Mr. President: I d) of the State treasury. It certainly never not know that I clearly understand the was contemplated. motion of the gentleman from Cook [Mr. Mr. SNYDER. Mr. President: They Anthony], or what object he has in view. are still State's attorneys-the only atThe section as it stands provides for pay- torneys we have. There are no State's ment out of the State treasury, of the attorneys, other than these of the counties; same salaries to judges of the circuit and and they prosecute for the State. superior courts, as are paid to judges of Mr. TURNER. Mr. President: I the circuit court throughout the State; merely wish to make a remark and a mo bat I understand this amendment will tion. We have provided for our county give the county judge of Cook county the courts, and for the election of county same salary as the circuit judges get. I judges. The county of Cook will stand do not suppose that was the intention of upon the same platform that others do, the gentleman. and I move to lay the amendment of the 1 suppose it is his intention that the gentleman from Cook [Mr. Anthony] on county judge of Cook county shall re- the table. chive the same salary payable out of the Mr. ANTHONY. M.r. President: i State treasury, that other county judges will say to the gentleman-n receive, not circuit judges. The PRESIDENT. A motion to lay The PRESIDENT. She Chair would on the table is not debatable. suggest to the gentleman that he can offer Mr. ANTHONY. Certainly, Mr. Presan amendment to be added after the ident; I just wished to call the gentlewords "circuit judges," if he may de- man's attention to the end of section sixsire. teen. Mr. TURNER. I shall certainly make The PRESIDENT. The question is that amendment, because it is not intend- upon the motion of the gentleman from ed that the county judge ~Cook county Stephenson [Mr. Turner], to lay on the t t t TUESDAY, 1478 table the amendment of the gentleman from Cook [Mr. Anthony]. Mr. CHURCH. Mr. President: Let the amendments, be read. The Secretary read the amendment offered by Mr. Anthony, as follows: Insert after the word "courts' 11 in first line, the words, land county and probate courts," and after the word 11 State," in third line, the words, "and the county judge of said county shall receive such compensation as may be provided by law." The motion of Mr. Turner, to lay on the table the amendment offered by Mr. Authony, was agreed to. Mr. CHURCH. Mr. President: I move to amend the tliirty-sixth SeCtiOD, by adding after the words "judges of" in the first line the.words'-circuitaiid superior." As I understand this section now it would provile for the payniett of the salary of the county judge of Cook county out of the State treasury, and in that regard he would be distinguished from all other county judges, in privileged I discovered that difficulty in the article wheii it was brought beff-)re the Comnaittee on the Judiciary, aid understood sach intention wa.s there disavowed, and that the language was to be ehai,-ged by the delegates from that couutv. I supposed it was corrected in some other part of the report, but do not find it so.'I'his amendment will, however, remove all objection. My understanding is, and I think it is just, that the State's attorn(ys are to receive in that county, whatever salary is provided for other counties, atid no more. I suppose it is understood that the State's attorneys uow provided will receive a certain compensation,froni the State, not exceeding in the aggregate what is now paid to them, equal throughout all the counties, and that they will receive the balance of their pay from the several counties, in proportion to the county business. All I desire is that no county shall receive special privileges. The payment of this salary of judges in that county, should be limited to the courts of general jurisdiction, that are graded and ranked with circuit courts. Mr. HAYES. Mr. President: I hope the amendment of the gentleman from McHenry [Mr. Church] will be adopted. It is very proper, althougli it is the API 6 80 EAE N R)ED-S 4 Mr. VANDEVENTER. Mr Presi dent: During the argument in regard to this innovation concerning county attor neys there was not a gentleman upon the floor who advocated the county attorney system, who did not state that the county attorneys would be the general advisers of the boards of supervisors of the various counties throughout the State; that they would be in attendance upon the board, giving them advice, and furnishing them written opinions. Now, I cannot see any propriety or justice in requiring the State to pay for advice to the boards of supervisors of the various counties. These boards are in session from one to ten or fifteen days at each session, and the labor performed va ries a great deal in different counties. I do not, therefore, see what injustice there would be in requiring each county to pay its own legal adviser. I Mr. SNYDER (in his seat). In the county which I have the honor in part to represent, we have no board of supervi sors, and never will have. Mr. VANDEVENTER. This, Mr. President, was Qone argument in favor of county attorneys. I was opposed. to the whole county at torney policy; but if they are to be the attorneys of the boards of supervisors, let those counties that avail themseves of their legal knowledge pay for it. While giving advice to the county beard, they are certainly acting, solely and strictly, as county attorneys, for the sole benefit of the county. Mr. UNDERWOOD. Mr.. President: Undoubtedly the State's attorneys will be paid different amounts in different coun ties. It is one of those cases, particular-. ly, which ought to be left to the Legis lature. In the first place they should be paid out of finles and recognizances collected as they are now. Then, if they render services to the county, the county com missioners, or board of supervisors, will make a proper allowance for that. The State will, undoubtedly, make a proper allowance for prosecuting crimi nals, and for services rendered to the State. Now, it is said by one gentleman [Mr. Vandeventer], that in some of the coun ties of the State they ought not to be paid by the State as much as in others. That is so; but it has always been so in some of the circuits. In some of the cir cuits in the rural districts, the business, on behalf of the people, has hardly been one fiftieth part of what it has been in circuits, including large towns and cities; and, yet, so fir as the State is concerned, it has always allowed the State's attorney a certain sum-five hundred dollars, I think at the present time. Perhaps, under the new system, as they will only prosecute for the State in one county, they will re ceive about one hundred dollars instead of five hundred dollars, as heretofore. t No w. the Attorney General prosecutes in the supreme court, and is paid by the State. He prosecutes those cases that , come from the v,arious counties to the supremecourt, and yet he is paid by the t whole State. The county attorney prosecuting in behalf of the State, in the respective counties, so far as those cases are i concerned, ought to be allowed some compensation from the State. How . much, is a matter which should be left with the General Assembly, as heretofore. Mr. SEDGWICK. Mr. Pre sident: Without discussing how these State's attorneys ought to be paid, whether out of the State or county treasury, I wish to suggest that the words "State's attor neys" ought to be stricken out of this sec tion for this reason: Cook county is a part of the State of Illinois, and I know nio reason why we should insert this provision in regard to their State's at torney any more than we should insert a clause naming the State's attorney of DeKalb county or any other counties in the State. I suppose that if we leave this matter to the Legislature, they will serve Cook countv just as they do all the other coun ties of the State. I supprose they will serve DeKalb county just as thev will all the other counties of the State. I might insist upon having a clause pro viding a State's attorney fcr DeKalb county with as much reason as the gen tleman from Cook. I think this is sufficient reason why these words should be stricken out with out any reference whatever to how the State's attorneys are to bepaid. If the Legislature provide for paying State's attorneys out of the State treasury, then let it be by general law applicable to the whole State. If they conclude to pay them out of county treasuries, then let that be by general law applicable to each and every county. I protest against lum bering up the Constitution with 13rovis ions for Cook county when there is no necessity for doing so. Mr. BROWNING. Mr. President: It is yet uncertain what action the Convenr tioni will take in regard to the payment of State's attorneys. They may, and prob ably will leave it in the discretion of the General Assembly to provide for all, or at least a portion of their compensation out of the State treasury. If the State should pay any part of the salaries of State's attorneys, for the State at large, it would be right and just that she should pay the same proportion of the salary of the State's attorney of Cook as of any other county. 1 apprehend no one de sires to do any injustice to Cock county in this respect. It is easy enough, I think, to put this section, without striking out the words "State's attorney," in a form which will make it perfectly safe, whatever the ac tion the Convention may ultimately take - whether it shall provide for the pay menit of State's attorneys out of the State treasury, or whether it shall quarter them exclusively upon the county treasury. I do not see any necessity for the words 'in the same manlner," in the latter part of the second line. I think they may as well be stricken out; and then insert af ter the word *'paid," in the third line, "fromt said treasury." Then, if there is no salary paid to the State's attorney of the State, out of the State treasury, the State's attorney of Cook coun ty will get none out of the State treasury. If there should be anything paid out of the State treasury to the attorneys of the State at large, Cook county would share equally and properly with them; and in either event, whatever the action of the Con: vention may be, the section, with that amendment, will be perfectly safe. rI therefore move to amend by striking :out the words " in the same manner," in .the second line, and inserting after tfho s f e e 0 e s e t t e s e e h e s t DEBATES AND PROCEEDIINGS. 14 7 APRIL 26, 1870. The State may or may not pay anything to its attorneys, but there should be no discrimination between Cook county and other counties. Mr. ROSS. I understand we have provided that county attorneys shall b,e paid out of the county treasury. Mr. TURNER. No; we have provided that each county may have a county attorney. The matter of pay is left to the Gen, —ral Assembly. Mr. ROSS. If we have not made that provision, we should make it at the earliest possible time. No doubt the Convention contemplated it. It would be very udjust to pay the County attorneys the same in the small counties of Cal houn or Hardin as in LaSalle rr Cook county. Their pay should be fixed aiid paid, I tbiiik, by the county. Mr. HAY. Mr. President: Iconcur with the gentleman from Fulton [Mr. Ross]. Ivotedfortheiwenty-eighth-section with the understanding that there was to be some provision of that kind in regard to county attorneys. When we ,set through the article, I shalt move to insert a provision to make that clear. Mr. SNYDER. Mr. President: I can see no reason why the county attorneys should be paid by the county. They are not the attorne. s of the county, but of the public-of the State-to keep peace and good order in the State. All the fines in the cases which they prosecute, go into the State treasury, and I do not see why the county should be saddled with the compensation of these attorneys, as they are for ttie benefit of the State-not particularly for the counties. The office has no possible connection with the county business or county government. The Convention has chosen to put them in lieu of the circuit attorneys, but they areuo less State's attorneys than before. There is no reason for paying them out of the County treasury. Mr. RICE. Mr. President: I think the gentleman from St. Clair [Mr. Snyder] is right, as it will be seen by every one whose attention is directed to the subj ect.,I These are not county officers. The counties are only the districts in which they are elected, and to which their duties are circumscribed, but they are the officers of the State, engaged in the ser In for the common 1480 CONSTITUTIOXAL COYENTION TUESDAY, word "paid," in the third line, "from said treasury." The PRESIDENT. The Chair will entertain the motion of the gentleman from Adams [Mr. Browning], as soon the petidiijg question is disposed of. The question is upon the motion to strike (ut the A ords "State's attorney" from the first and third lines. A division was ordered. The Convention divided; when, there being eighteen in the affirmative and thirty three in the negative, the amend. meint was declared agreed to. Mr. ROSS. Mr. President: I call for the yeas and nays ["Too late," "too late."] The PRESIDENT. The motion for the yeas anid nays is in order. The question. being upon the motion to strike out the words "State's attorney" from the first line, and also from the third] line, the yeas and nays were ordered, and beiig taken, resulted-yeas 22; nays 40 -as follows: case be as much as the lawful compensation of a judge of the circuit court, and shall be paid respectively only out of the fees of the office actually collected. All fees, perqui sites and emoluments (above the amount of said salaries) shall be paid into the county treasury. Th e number of such d eputies and assistants shall be determined by Iule of the circuit court, to be entered of record. Mr. HAINES, of Cook. Mr. President: I do not see anything in that substitute which leaves the control of the salary of the assistants and deputies to anybody. I move to amend the substitute so that the compensation to deputies and assist ants shall be fixed by the county board. I move to amend by addilng the words, "and their compensation shall be deter mined by the county board." The amendment offered by Mr. Haines, of Cook, was agreed to. Mr. BROWNING. Mr. President: I wish to call the attention of the gentle man who offered the substitute [Mr. An thony] to one ambiguity which I think it contains. It provides that the excess over and above the compensation of the officers shall be paid into the county treasury. Is it intended that the officers shall retain their compensation as they collect fees, or is all to be paid into the county treasury, and then their salaries paid to them from * the treasury? Mr. ANTHONY. Mr. President: It was the intention that the officers should retain their fees, and pay the excess into the county treasury. Mr. HAYES. Mr. President: That is the rule adopted in the other part of the article. Mr. CODY. Mr. President: By section six of the article upon counties, provision is made that the county board shall fix the compensation of all county officers, assistants, deputies, etc. Now, the amend ment offered bv the gentleman from Cook [iMr. Anthonjy], leaves it so that there will be a different rule in Cook county with reference to the pay of assistants and deputies-and this is the only difference. I do not see, however, with that amend. ment adopted, what reason there is for mnking any provision in this judiciary article upon the subject at all. It seems to me the sixth section of the article upon counties will answer for the whole State. And I think, perhaps, the whole section should be stricken out. I do no)t suppose it is the interntion to make any dlff(erent provision for the officers of Cook county than for the balance of the State, and the article on counties makes full provision for all county officers. Mr. HIAYTES. Mr. President: The amendment under consideration changes the rule inl Cook county fr'om that which it would be under the section referred to by the gentleman from DuPage [Mr. It gives the circuit court the right. to determine the number of assistants which should be employed, whbich we consider a very importan-t provision. It must be borne in mnind that the conditionsl of thlings ill Cook county is very different from that el~sewh-ere. The fees anld emoluments- amounlt to a very large susa. We desire to have the practice changed, There can be no objection to that amendment. The PRES3IDENT7. The questionu is on the motion to strike oult, and insert the substitute. The Secretary read the substitute of m i SEC. 37 The recorder's court of the city of Chicago shall be continued, and shall be called the "criminal court of Cook county." It shall have the jurisdiction of a circuit court, in all cases of criminal and quasi criminal nature, arising.n the county of Cook or that may be brought before said court, pursuant to law; and all recognizances and appeals, taken in said county in criminal and quasi criminal cases, shall be returnable and taken to said court. It shall have no jurisdiction in civil cases, except in those on behalf of the people, and incident to such criminal or quasi criminal matters, and to dispose of unfinished business. The terms of said criminal court of Cook county shall be held by one or more of the judges of the circuit or superior courts of Cook county, as nearly as may be in alternation, as may be determined by said judges. or provided by law. Said judges shall be, ex-o,gcio, judges of said court. The PRESIDENT. It will be declared adopted. The Secretary will read section thirty-eight. The Secretary read section thirty-eight, as follows: SEC. 38. The present clerk of the recorder's court of the city of Chicago shall be the clerk of the criminal court of Cook county, during the term for which he was elected. The present clerks of the superior court of Chicago, and the present clerk of the circuit cout t of Cook county shall continue in office during the terms for which they were respectively elected, and thereafter there shall be but one clerk of the superior court, to be elected by the qualified electors of said couinty, who shall hold his office for the term of four years and until his successor is elected and qualified. Mr. ROSS. Mr. President: I would inquire itf this would prevent officers from resigning or dying. [Laughter]. By constitutional provision they cannot get out of office. The PRESIDENT. The Chair will state that it is the duity of the Chair to state the question, and not to expound the legal effects of the proposition. [Laughter.] If there are no amendments to be proposed, the section will be declared adopted The question is on section thirty-nine. The Se:cretary read section thirty-nine, as follows: SEC. 39. The clerks of all courts of record, the treasurer, sheriff; coroner and recorder of deeds, in said county of Cook, shall receive salaries for their services, to be fixed by law, which shall be payable quarterly, out of the treasury of said county, and which shall not be changed during their terms of office; but in no case shall the highest salary of either of said officers be as much as the compensation allowed by law to a judge of the circuit court of Cook county. Said courts shall determine by rule, to be entered of record, the number of assistants to be emiployed by the clerk, and their compensation shall be fixed by law, and paid quarterly out of the treasury of said county, and shall not be increased during their terms of oflfe. All fees, perquisites and emoluments of every kind incident to litigation in said courts, shall be collected in such manner as shall be provided by law, and paid into the treasury of said county. Mr. ANTHOiNY. Mr. President: I desire to offer a substitute fair that sect ilon. Since it has been reported from the Committee of the Whole, the Convention has acted upon the county court article, in which the principles governing that office have been laid down by the Convention, and we wish to conform to the pri,nciples of that article relating to salaries. In order to do that, I will move the following substitute for section thirtynine, which I will read: SEc. 39. The clerks of all the courts of record, the treasurer, sheriff, coroner, and recorder of deeds of said county, shall receive as their only compensation for their services s salaries to be fixed by law, which shall in no - NAYS. Allen of Crwfd,Goodhuec, Archer, Harwood, Bayne, Hayes, Browning, Hildrup, Church, King,Cody, McCoy, Coolbaugh, Merriam, Craig, Moore, Cross, Parker, Cummings, Parkis, Ellis, Perley, Forman, Scholfield, Fuller, Sharp, Goodell, Sherrill, Snyder, Springer, Sutherland, Turner, Underwood, Vandeventer, Wagner, Wait, Wall, Wells, Wendling Wheaton-40. CONSTITUTIONAL CO-NVENTION 1480 TUESDAY, YE.IS. Abbott, Ha-nkins, Allen of Alex.,Hart, Anderson, Ra,y, Benjamin, McDowell, Dument, Peirce, Fox, Rice, Gii,mble, RobiDson, Haines ofcook, Ross, Sed,gwick, Tiilcher, Tubbs Washburn, Whiting, wilscn-22. BSENT, OR NOT VOTING. Cameron, Neece, Cary, Pillsbury, Eldredge, Poage, English, Skinner, Ha,ines of LI ke,Ti-uesdale, Hanna, Writzht, Medill, Mr. Pres4ident-21. Anthony, Atkins, Bowman, Bromwell, Brown, Bryan, Buxton, So the motion of )(Ir. Hay to strike out, was not agreed to. Mr. BROWINING. I now move my amendment. The words I wish, to have stricken out do not seem to be of any use in the section. The Secretary read the amendment offered by Mr. Browuitig, as follows: btrike out in the second line the words I'in the same manner," and after the word "Paid" In the third line, insert the words "from said treasury." Ttie amendment Offered by Mr. BrowniDg was agreed to. Mr. VANDEVENTER I would inquire of the Chair if it be in order to move a reconsideration of a section at this tinie-section seventeen. The PRESIDENT. It is in ordersection seventeen having beea adopted within two business days. Mr. VANDEVENTER. I will not make the motion now. The PRESIDENT. The question is on section thirty-six as amended; and it will be declared adopted. The question is now on the thirty-seventh section. The Secretary read section thirty-seven, as follows: APRIL 26, 1870. DEBATES AD PROCEEDINGS. 1481 Mr. WALL. Mr. President: This provisionasI understand, is acceptable to all of the Cook county delegation, and as I am informed, it is one that Cook county desires to have in the Constitu tion. As a delegate from one of the outlying counties, I desire very much that Cook county shall be accommodated in that matter. So far as concerns the other counties, it is not at all certain that this principle will be applied, for while the Committee of the Whole has adopted it as to all the counties of the State, I am very doubtful whether we shall settle upon that as a correct principle for counties having less than one hundred thousand people. I trust, therefore, that the motion will pre vail. If this section is adopted, and the similar section of the article on counties, the Committee on Revision and Adjustment can very easily arrange the two so as to prevent undue repetition. Mr. ALLEN, of Crawford. Mr. President: I understand that the motion of the gentleman from Cook [Mr. Anthony] is to strike out the section, and insert the substitute. I submit that the motion of the gentleman from Montgomery [Mr. Ri c e] is not in order, until we vote on the motion of the gentleman from Cook [Mr. Anthony]. The PRESIDENT. The motion of the gentleman from Cook [Mr. Anthony] is a motion to amend the substitute by another provision. The motion of the gentleman from Montgomery [NIr. Rice] is an independent motion to strike out. We have a special rule, which provides that a motion to strike out shall take precedence of any motion to perfect the section by any amendment, and that it shall be equivalent to the rejection of the proposition. Mr. ALLEN, of Crawford. Suppose the motion of the gentleman from Montgomery [Mr. Rice] is first put and carried, then no substitute for the section would be in order? The PRESIDENT. No substitute would be in order. It would be the simple rejection of the section. Mr. ALLEN, of Crawford. Then I am against the motion of the gentleman from Montgomery [MIr. Rice]. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the motion of the gentleman from Montgomery [Mr. Rice] to strike out sectioti thirty-nine. The yeas and nays were ordeted. The Secretary proceeded to call the roll. Mr. SEDGWI?K (when his name was called) said: Mr. President: I wish to explain my vote. Inasmuch as we fixed up the section providing for the salaries of county officers, in accordance with the views of the gentlemen from Cook coun-m ty, and inasmuch as it was urged upon us by them, I think that what is good for the rest of the State is good for them. I vote to strike. out. The result was then announced-yeas, 9; nays, 51-as follows: fered by Hr. Anthony, as amended by Mr. Haines, of Cook, as follows: SEC. 39. The clerks of a ll the courts of record, the treasurer, sheriff, coroner, and record er of de eds of said county, shall receive as the ir only compensation for their services, salaries to be fixed by law, which shall in no case be as muchas the lawful compensation o f akjudge of the circuit court, and s hall be paid respecti vely on ly out of t he fees of the office actually collected. All fees, perquisites and em fluments (above the amount of said salaries), shall be paid into the county treasury. The number of such deputies and assistants shall be determined by rule of the circuit court, to be entered of record, and their compensation shall be determined by the county board. Mr. COOLBAUGH. Mr. President: I would suggest that if three words be struck out in the substitute-I forget precisely what they are, but I think "above the amount"-the section will provide as it ought. I think that all the fees should first be paid into the treasury -and that, I think, would obviate the objection that has been made. Mr. RICE. Mr. President: Would a motion to strike out the section be now in order? The PRESIDENT. It would. Mr. RICE. I make the motion then, Mr. President, to strike out the section. Mr. COOLBAUGH. Mr. President: I hope the motion of my friend from Montgomery [Mr. Rice] will not prevail, and if he will reflect I think he will justify me. The provision to which allusion'has been made in the article upon the government of counties has not been finally acted upon in the Convention. Certain stipulations or provisions were agreed to in the Committee of the Whole, but we do not know whether that section will be adopted or not, and I prefer that this should be passed even though the other should be also. If we adopt both, then the Committee of Adjustment can take them in hand and strike out whichever proves redundant. Mr. RICE. When the question of compensation for county officers comes to be considered in Convention, since it has been acted on in Committee of the Whole only, the question here involved can also be considered. Cook county can be then considered, as to the payment of county officers, with the other counties throughout the State. Mir. McCOY. hMr. President: I hope the gentleman from Montgomery [Mr. Rice] will not insist on his motion to strike out, without reference to inserting the substitute, because we can have a division of the question, and vote first o striking out and then on inserting. I think there may be some reason why the substitute thould be adopted in favor of Cook county. I understand that thle substitute would not be in order if the section is stricken out. It could not follow. If that is correct, we should let Cook county fizz this for thlenselves. True, we have provided that county boards shall fix these salaries, b~ut Cook county is differently circumstanced from any other county in tihe State. It is not, and cannot be, known how many subtor. dinales they m~ay require to carry forward their business. They will be more numerous than in any other county. I move that we first take the sense of the Convention on striking out, and then on the substitute. S71 ABSENT, OR NOT VOTIN G. Anderson, -Cameron, Pillsbury, Atkins, Eldredge, Robinson, Bayne, Haines of LakeSkinner, Bowman, Hanna, Truesdale, Bromwell, King, Wendling, Brown, Medil, Wright, Bryan, Neece, Mr. President-23. Buxton, Parks, So the motion of Mr. Rice, to strike out se ction thirty nine, was not agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The questio n i s u pd cu the motion to strike (ut and insert a substitute, which the Secretary will read. The Secretary read the substitute offered by Mr. Aithony, as a mend ed, as follows: SEc. 39. The clerks of all the courts of record, the treasurer, sheriff, coroner and recorder of deeds of said county, shall receive as their only compensation for their services, salaries, to be fixed by law, which shall in no case be as much as the lawful compensation of a judge of the circuit court, and shall be paid respectively only out of the fees of the office, actually collected. All fees, perquisites and emoluments (above the amount of said salaries) shall be paid into the county treasury. Thie number of such deputies and assistants shall be determined by rule of the circuit court to be entered of record, and their compensation shall be determined by the county board. The motion of Sir. Anthony to strike out was agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the adoption of the substitute as amended. The substitute offered by Mr. Anthony, as amended, was agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the adoption of the fortieth section. The Secretary read section firty, as follows: SEc. 40. There shall be no justices of the peace or police magistrates in the city of Chicago, after the expiration of the terms of the existing justices of the peace and police magistrates;and the General Assembly shall, at its first session after the adoption of this ConstitutiOD, divide the city into districts, and establish courts therein, to consist of one or more judges for each district, and such officers as may be provided by law. The judges of said courts shall be appointed by the Governor, by and with the advice and consent of the Senate; but no person shall be appointed except upon the recommendation of a majority of the judges of the circuit, superior and county courts, and shall hold their offices for four years, and until their successors be commissioned and qualified. Such courts shall have jurisdiction in civil cases at law, in said city, where the amount in controversy does not exceed two hundred dollars, and such Criminal jurisdiction as may be conferred by Baw. The comlpensation of said judges shall be fixed by law, and paid out of the city treasury, and shall not be increased during their terms of office. All fees and perquisites shall be paid into thle city treasury. Appeals, in civil cases, from justices of the peace in said county, and from said courts established in said districts, shall be allowed to the circuit or superior court of Cook county, in such manner as may be provided by law. Mr. HAYES3. Mr. President: i wish to offer a substitute for that section. I will state to the Convention that the section as read did not meet the harmsoni NAYS. Abbott, Gamble, Sherrill, Allen of Alex.,Goodhue, Snyder, Allen of Crfd., Haines of CookSpringer, Anthony, Hankins, Sutherland, APRIL 26, 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1481 A,rcher, BeDjaM!n, Browniing, Cary, Church, Cody, Coolbaugh, Craig, Cross. Demnt, Ellis, Fox, Fuller, Hart, TIarwood, Hay, Hayes, Hildrup, McCoy, Merriam, Moore, Parkei, Perley, Peirce, Poage, Scholfield, Tincher, Tubbs, Turner, 'Underwood, Vaiideventer, Wagner, Wait Wall., Washburn, Wells, Wheaton, WhitiD —. Wilson51. 4' i YE,A,S. Goodell, McDowell, Rice, Cummings, En-,Iish, Forman Rpas, Sedgwick, Sharp-9. I '' 482 COXSTITUTIONAL CONY ETIO TUESDAY, cult, superior and county courts), and for such districts as are now, or shall hereafter be provided by law. They shall hold their office for four years, and until their successors have been commissioned and qualified; but they may be removed by s m-nary pro t ceeding in the circuit or superior count, for extortion or other malfeasance. Existing jmottices of the Deace and police magistrates may hold their offices until the expiration of their respective terms. Mr. BRO WNING. Mr. Pre3ident: There is one feature of that which I think is very objectionable indeed. It purports to give the appointment of these justices of the peace to the Governor. but, in practice, and in effect, it makes soim a mere instrument to give effect t) the will of the courts of Cook county. He has no more to do with the selection of the appointees, then one of us would have. Now, I do not at all approve of having the chief executive of the State made to play second fiddle in this manner. I am perfectly willing that the Governor shall have the appointment of these offis cers, but if we. intend to give him the appointment, let us give it to him in good faith. I move, therefore, to strike out so much of the proposed substitute as requires the appointments to be made upon recommen-g dation of courts of Cook county. Why name the Governor at all? I know that it is not so intended, but it is really an indignity offered to the Governor. Why not declare that the appointments shall be made by the courts of Cook county,! at once and absolutely? Where is the necessity for introductig the name of the Governor, or requiring him to have anything to do with the matter, when all he is permitted to do is to ratify what has alreadv been done by the officers of Cook county, before the question comes to his attention at all. I think it is very proper to give the appointment to the Governor, but let the responsibility be upon him. t I know it may be said that the courts of Co ok county will have an acquaintance with the citizens of Cook county, which the Governor cannot have, and better means of determining who are proper persons to appoint; but if the Governor does not possess the requisite knowledge, let him take the responsibility of this as of every other executive act, and inform the reyof omeof he ustcesof he mself through such channlels as may pr idda nwtepeetGv as Iam nfomed I aveno er-commend themselves to his attention and enri,adaxos sIko ei,t peace, ~~~~~~~acceptance.dorgtanpuemneasayftr tam nowldgeof i, fo I ave ot beli I cannot tote for the substitute as it is, oenrmyb,h ilb ocdb praticng aw or anyyeas, ut hatisfor I am not willing to subordinate the tevr aueo hne ytefreo the tatmen mae tome ithut on-Governor in the performance of his exec- crusacsado h pnoso oi tradition It s mad by he pblicutive duities, to the dictation of judicial tcas ogv hs ponmnst i pres, wo avocae tis hang, wichis,fficers. This is an executive acts andpoiiafiedoruoth reomn yet all freedom of will, and of action is dtoso i oiia red.Ltl 0 no opposition to it. taken from the Governor, and he is sub-liiaclqewilhvsoeatvma Therfor, Iam eadyto ccet taisordinated totally and completely to the care on eiio,(n ealko varitio fr~m te geera pla, ad Idictation of thejudges of Coo~k colunty. thrisltldifclyiobannth hop th Covetio, cnsutig te wl- Mr. TURN-ER. Mr. President: I be- nmso epcal e osc e far o solagea ppuatin,wie gveitlieve the Cook county delegation istiin,wihwlbepeetdtth their approval. ~~~unanimous in regard to this matter, that Gvro n ewl aeteapit The PRSIDEN. Thequeston isa reform is needed among their justices ofmet Bu,udrtisusiueifw uponthemoton o srikeout an inertthe peace, that the best way toa aid that aoti,tercmedto utcm the substitute. ~~~reform, is to have the j ustices appointed, rmfv ugsi tect fCiao The motin was ageed to.instead of elected by the people, and my repnilme,ntpltcaswhno The PESIDNT. he qestin isacquaintance in Chicago leads me to be-onykothcaaiybuthchrce uponthe dopion f th sustitte. lieve that there should be a reform work- o h e hyrcmed TheSecetay eadthesubtiuteoffr-ed in that manner. M.CMIG. M' rsdn ed by Mr.Hayes, asfollows:No)w, sir, I cann:ot agree with the gen- oeteaedet fee ytegn S~c 40 Al jstiesof he eae i th cty tenianl from Adams [Mr. Browvning]. that tea rmAas[rBonn]wl ernr, y ad iththeadvceandconentofto adopt the substitute will be any in-peal WhlIdontloattesb the enat (bt ony upn te reommeda-dignit~y what: ver to.th-e executive of thestttofrebyteetlmnfo tio ofa mjorty f te jgesof he r-State. The xcut~tive is no~t compelled toCok[rHae]frmtesadon appo i nt w homsoever a majority of these j udges recommend. They may recom. mend a man objectionable to the Governor, who is not-compelled by anything in this substitute to nominate that pearty to the senate. He is restrained, however, from nominating, to the senate any one who cannot obgtain the recommendation of a maj ori ty of these judges. Then again, sir, these offierss cannot be commissioned until they are confirm-ed by the senate. The senate has entire freedom of choice. They- may re~je'ct the nominat,ionl of the Governor; then it will become the duty of these judges to again recommend somebody else. I regard the prop(.sitionl'favorably. I do not know why it has struck me so-I was Dot aware that there was anything of this kind to be presented-but it does strike me with peculiar force that the chances of securingf competent and up-. right men to fill these offices are very greatly enhanced by providing that they shall not be nominated to the senate by thegovernor until they havereceived the re commendation of four or five j udges. Tho3se four or five judges, it may reasonably be supposed, will be good, honest, substantial men, removed, in a good degree, from political influences and from all other outside influences, who cannot be supposed, to have. -tnything but the best interest-e of the State in view in making their recommendations. Buat let us leave out that clause that requires this recommenldation, and where do we leave it? We may some-time have a Governor from- Cook co~unty, who may be acquainted with these things, but I undertake to say that we have not had a Governor, and, in the nature of things, will not have a Governor who can comprehend and understand precisely the class of men an.d tile character of the men who may aspire to these offices in Chicago, so as to be able from personal acquaintance to make suitable and proper nominationls. Now, how shall they be appointed? The Governor must rely upon his friends. The history of the appointing power,from the "head centre," at Washington, down, proves that appointments are made with reference to political opinions and politiCal favors. If the Governor of this State shall be left to make these appo~intmed~ts, SEC. 40. All justices of the peace in the city of Chicago, shallbe oed by summary by the Governsr, by and waith the advice and consent of the senate (but only upon the rfecommendaStion or a major ity of the judges of the circuit Superior and countyr courts), and for such districts as are now or shall hereafter be, pro vfided by law. They shall hold their offinese for tour years, and until their successors have been commissioned and qualified; but they may be removed by summary proceeding in the circuit or superior court for extortion or other malfeasance. Existing justices of the peace, and police m~agistrates may hold their officese until the expiration of their respective terms. would say, Mr. President, that there is a change made in tile manner of the selection of justices of the peace, from that which has hitherto prevailed throughout the State. It seems to be an anomalyr that the justices of the peace in the city of Chicago should bie nominated anid appointed by the Governor, while in other parts of the State they are elected by the people. I must say that I have had some doubt in reference to the propriety of mak ng such an exception. But onl full reflection, I have yielded that doubt, and am satisfied that it is anxiously desired by almost every one in the city of Chicago. I believe that it meets the unanimous approval of the members of the bar and of the people. Thle justices of the peace in the city of Chicago have been the subj ect of great complaint. There has been complaint of abuses which have become a public evil of great magnitude. -It is said that those officers have been in the habit of fleecing the poorer classes of tile people, and have 'peen guilty of extortion of the lmost aggravated kind. In that city there are thousands of people who are never able to go to the higher courts for redress, and have been obliged to submit to mnany" wrongs. They find nobody to protect them. A large portion of the people are the prey of some of the justices of the peace, as I am informed. I have no certain knowledge of it, for I have not been. practicing law for many years, bout that, is the statement made to me without cc~ntradiction. It is made by the public press, who advocate this change, which is anxiously desired by every one. There is no opposition to it. Therefore, I ami ready to accept ttlis variation from the general plan, anid 1 3482 CONSTITUTIONAL CON'VENTION TUF,SDAY7 ous and unanimous approval of the delegates from Cook county, alfhouch it was approved by a majority of delegates. Further reflection has induced them to consent to the adoption of this substitute, which is more in conformity with the plan that has heretofore been in. existence, and removes the apprehensions of evil consequences that might arise from the section as first reported. I will read it: APRIL~~~~~ 26 80 EAE NDPO)EIG.18 and nothing else. I believe that what we propose will meet the approbation of every good citizen in our county. Mr. ALLEN, of Crawford. Mr. President: I feel, sir, it is my duty to comnhe to the aid of the people of Chicago ina their distress. I am sorry to hear that the people of that exemplary city have become so demoralized that they cannot be trusted even to choose their own jusa tices of the peace. Now, it seems that they are capable of electing circuit judges, and county officers and Congressmen, to vote for Governors and other State (,fficers, and for Presidenrt, but that they are incapable of voting for a man for the exalted position of justice of the pe cc in his precinct. Whether the plan proposed is the one best calculated to correct the evil complained of, and work a moral reform in Cook county, I cannot say, but I do not feel like depriving the people there of the right to elect an officer whom the people of all the other counties elect. If this rule is a wholesome one for Cook county, it is wholesome for the other counties. I do not like to see this provision placed in the fundamental law of the State. I do not like to see the people of Cook county deprived of the privilege of electing judicial officers, though they be only justices of the peace, while that privilege is enjoyed by the people of every other county in the State. My judgment is that the people of Cook county had better bear their present ills until they can reform them. If they have not missionaries enough of their own, we will send them a few from Egypt to enlighten them as to the character that men aspiring to public positions should possess. [Laughter]. I have no doubt we have many public spirited persons who could be prevailed upon to go to Cook county if it needed their services. Sir, I am opposed to the whole thing. We boast that this government is one of self government, a government of the people. For one, I shall nut record my wvote in favor of a proposition to deprive 300,000 people of the right of self-goverument in electing a petty justice of the peach. Mr. WALL. Mr. President: This is a rmatter that peculiarly concerns Cook county, and about which I understand that Cook county is unanimous, about which we have heard much from their public men and public press. There seems to be no difference of opinion in respec we to the need of immediate reform. The Cook county delegation have proposed this method. I do not see why any gentleman, outside of Cook county, who is not affected, and whose constituents cannot be injured, should feel called upon to oppose it. If the gentlemen from Fulton [Mr. Cummings] and Crawford LMr. Allen] are disposed to enter the missionary service in Cook county, they may do so, but I do not propose to give them a reform they do not want. I can easily understand that there may be a great difference in the results in electing their higher judicial officers and their l,,werjudiclal o)fficers. To the e elec tion of the higher judicial officers the ispublic attention is generally and closely directed. Every man of influence and property who is interested in the welfare I f I t r s s f I APRIL 26, 1870. DEBATES A.,ND PROOTEDINGS. 1483 of I he city, gives the matter his attention, and sees to it that no men who are not fit and proper reach su h positions. In the election of the minor judicial officers the matter is necessarily overlooked. It goes by default, and, before the people kdow it, they are in the possession of a lot of men who are eatidg them up-a lot of men who are destroying the peace and good order of the city. I can very easily see, sir, how this thing arises, and I can very easily see the great difficulty in attempting to reform it, by anything short of the plan proposed. So far as I am,2oiicerned, sir, I am opposed to the elective system, for the judiciary, altogether. I would be glad to dispense with it altogether. But that is not the spirit of the age. The s'pirit of the age is to elect the judiciary' all the way through Now, in Chicago, the people find that in the election of their justices of the peace., they are continually in trouble. They want to get out of trouble., Why should we object to I.etting them have the opportunity to do so? The objection i-nade bv the Gentleman from Adams [Mr. Brownil)g], Chat this restriction upon the appointing power, of the Governor, is an indignity, seems to rre to be entirely without force. It does Dot provide that be should nominate only those whomthejudgessuggesut(,,him. Itsimplv provides that from those whom the juges select, he shall make theuominations. I apprehend, sir, that the Govcr. nor will not regard it as an indignity at a'.1, but will be extremely glad that such a limitation exists, so as to relieve him of the importunities of politicans and placemen that he can but des;.re to be free from. . So, sir, in section forty-six, we have provided that the,iupreme and circuit judges of this State shall make recommeudations to the Governor as to the changes in the laws, and that the Governor shall communicate those recommendations to the General Assembly. I do not think anybody supposes that that section is an indignity to the executive. The executive is required to perform a great many mlnisleriat duties, and I have ilever heard that he regarded those duties as indignities. It is simply a limitation, that the Governor shall select the nominees that be does, there is another standpoint. It is an indignity upon the' people of Cook coun.y, to say that they are Dot coinpetent to elect their own ofbcers. I know of no people who have done more than they have to extend the right of suffrage, for upon that question Chicago has for a long series of years, been earnestly at work, to enforce universal suffrage. Now they come here and ask this Convention to protect them from their own acts,their work of years. They are the first'lo appeal to this constitutional assembly to be protected from the very hands which they themselves have armed. I do hope that if the substitute is adopted by this COnVelltiOD, these obj'ectioinable words will be stricken out. I do not'wish to consume the time of the Convention, but I really hope that the Amendment offered by the gentleman from Adams [Mr. Browiiing] will prevail. Otherwise the substitute will be an indigiiity to the legal voters of Chicago, an ii3sult to their understanding, to their judgment, implying that tl-iey are not competent for self-governMeDt, that they need guardians, and that the delegates from (.'il)icago are the proper persons to appoiijt the guardians. ,It is the duty of this Convention to wipe it out. If placed in the Constitutioii, it will notify the people of the State of Illinois, that the first step towards disfranchising them has been taken. Y.e. ANTFIONY. Mr. President: I wi'll simply say for'the assurance of the gentleman from Fulton [Mr. Cummii)gs], that we supposed this had no political aspect at all, but that-it'was proposed to reform abuses that have grown up in our State. And if the gentleman has noticed, every Dewspaper in our city has been in fttvor of this reform. Now, the last tbidir on earth that we thought of was tbit a n-iere recommeindation of (officers to the Governor of the State would be considered an indignity to him. I am astonished to find so learned, experienced and able a gentle mali as the geDtleRian from Adams [Mr. Browuijng], wakidg such an objection as he has. We simi)lv wish to have this done that the Danie;okproper pers(-)ns fit and capable Ot'fil lidg the office, may be presented .1 1481 ('OTITUTIOAL TUESDAY, In regard to the good taste and pro priety of expressions of that kind from gentlemen representing remote districts in this State, respecting the relations which exist between other delegates and their own constituents, I have nothing to say, but with regard to the matter of fact, I will say that the delegates from Cook county are not at all alarmed by the remarks of the gentlemen, and are not at all afraid to meet their constituents upon this or upon any other subject upon which they act in this Convention. They did not come here for the purpose of making what is called "buncombe," or political capital. They were all of them elected, as I believe, without their solici tation. They all came into this Conven tion at the request of the people of Cook county, for the purpose of aiding in the solution of questions of government, and for the the purpose of aiding them in getting rid of evils under which they suffer. Now, sir, we do not regard it as an indignity that we should be deprived of the right of electing certain minor offi cers. We have never had the right of electing notaries public in our county, and I believe that right does not exist in the counties of the gentleman from Fulton [,Ir. Cummings], and the gentleman from Crawford [Mr. Allen]; and, yet, I have never heard those gentlemen raise their voices, claiming for their constituents the great right of self government, in electing their notaries public. Why not, sir? Whlen the gentleman from Crawford [Mr. Allen] rises here and declares in Demosthenesian tones in favor of the right of self-government by the people of Illinois, in regard to the election of their justices of the peace, how can he consent to remain so quiet whilst that right is entirely disregarded in regard to the election of their notaries public? Mr. ALLEN, of Crawford. Mr. President: A notary public is a State officer, sir. -lMr. HAYES. lir. President: So is a justice of the peace a "State officer." He is created by the Constitution of the State. He enforces the laws of the whole State, just as the notary public enforces and acts under the law of the whole State. As he acts for his district, so does the notary public. If the justice of the peace is a local officer, so is the notary public. I am not afraid of the censure of my constituents on this subject. I know what their opinions are. I am satisfied that they desire the adoption of this provision. A word in reply to the gentleman from Adams [Mr. Browning]. He says it is an indignity to the Governor of the State that we should limit and cripple his power of appointment, by requiring a recommendation from the judges of Cook county as a condition precedent to its exercise. I reply that we know as a matter of fact that there is no appointment to office made without the recommendation of somebody. It is the usage, even s oof the President of the United States, to make his appointments in the different districts upon recommendation of members of Congress from those districts, and in this State it is the practice of the exjecutive to make appointments in the several counties upon the recommendation of the representatives from the county in the Genera' Assembly, or upon (,'ONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION TCTF,SDAY, 1481 gards the people of Cook county, to consult chiefly what seemed to be the wishes of the lawyers and the judges of that county. But I beg leave to submit,,-ir, Ito this Convention, that -there -.'s a very large number of free and independent ,voters in Cook county, who are neither .judges nor lawyers, and who have per.hapjust as much interest in the purity, and in the wisdom of the judiciary as gentlemen eminent in the profession have. I have taken some pains, Mr. President, endeavor to inform myself as to the opinions of the people of Cook county, in respect to'this provision, and I can say.truthfully and fairly, that I have not met one single business man or tax payer with whom I have conversed (and I have conversed with a great many who is not heartily in favor of the reform. proposed in the subst'i'tute offered by the gentleman from Cook [,Nlr. Hayes]. I admit that there is some force in the objection raised by my distinguished friend from Crawford [iN-fr. At'Len], that 'we are making an exception to the general rule, so far as the appointment of justices of the peace relates to Cook couiity, but we have made exceptions in other respects. It was not against the will of the Convention that we should have a court in Cook county that does not pertain to other portions of the State. It has .not been against the sense or wisdom of .the Convention that, numerous other features should be incorporated in our j udicial article referr!D- exclusively'to Cook county. We have, in this, made an exception, and nothing more, to a general rule. It seems to me that there is no other way of reachino, or meetina the reform demanded in our county. We must stay the selection of justices of the peace in some way or other, from the ,channel in which it is now controlled. There is n') doubt about that, and I sug. get to my friend from Crawford [Mr. ,Altei,i], that when he comes up to us a missionary from Eoypt, or as a candidate for Governor, as he probably will two years hence, lie will find the people of Cook county, of all parties, a unit in .,favor of this reform. I further suggest to him that he is;making a great political blunder to array himself against the will of the people of that county, and I hope, for these considerations, which always that of other representative men. But sir, whenever the recommendation has no sanCtiOD, comes from no persons directly responsible, we are liable to the combination of active politicians to fill ofhces improperly, or in their own interests, by secret representations made to the Governor. In this amendment we place the responsibility upon the proper persons-upon the judiciary of Cook county -who are interested iu the preservation of law and order, and have a reputation to preserve before the people of the county; a body of men wh3 would feel their responsib'ility and exercise it in such a maniner as to provide for the people of Cook county the proper officers to act for them as jLis,,,ices of the peace. That is about all that I have to say upon that question. I will state that there are some peculiar difficulties in the case of the city of Chicago which, perhaps, did not occur to the gentleman from Crawford rMr. Allen] and the gentleman from Adams [blr. BrowniDg], when making their remarks. Whenever a population becomes condensed so that upon a few -square miles of territory there are two, three, or four hundred thousand inhabitants, we find a development of human nature which does. not exist in the rural districts among a farMiDg community, or even among the small towns of the State. Why, sir, gentlemen may talk to me of my "honorable constittient.-,"-and I honor them,-they may talk about insult to the honorable persons who elected nie,-I honor thembu, as a matter of fact, I know, and ev(rybody knows, that in a great city there are besides the great body of good pe —)ple, many men who are not honorable, who even live by violations of the law. We send down to the penitentiary, month after month, persons that we are glad to arrest and punish for their crimes. We cannot get rid of that population. In a large city tl-ley, with their associates and sympathizers, amount to thousands of persons. We all know it, and a man must be a demagogue to live in the city of Chicago, and say that all persons who take part in our government are honorable and upright persons.. We cannot get rid of these infectei classes. Their numbers and influence are not to be despised. Sometimes such men get into the API 6:80 EAE N RCEIG.18 X inferior offices they do not sufficiently re- gard-though suffrage is a duty as well as a privilege. The delegates from Cook county all as sure us that the provision would enable them to secure a better class of officers, and the better enforcement of the laws of the State and city. They tell us that a class of men, who are wholly unworthy of the places they occupy, in many dis tricts are elected by the scum that floats there from all parts of the world, as in all other large cities; that these inferior courts are a burlesque upon justice and law. We have no reason to deny or dispute that. Indeed, any reader of the newspapers knows it to be the fact. Then reform is required. What is the reform proposesd? It is that the highest judges in the city furnish a list to the Governor, and that the Governor, out of that list (if I understand the substitute) select a number of persons for justices of the peace in that city, and nominate them to the senate. It is not, in my judgment, any impeachment of the Governor. Will not thejudgesin that city know better than the Governor, the persons who are competent for those offices? Would not you, Mr. President, if Governor, regard it rather as a favor to you in the discharge of the duty of nominating these officers, to get the advice of those personsat home, who, from their experience and position, would be most likely to select proper and competent officers as justiceB of the peace? If this system should not work well, doubtless there will be in the Constitution a provision for future amendments, to which we have unanimously agreedthat any one amendment may be adopted whenever two-thirds of the General Assembly shall have agreed upon it, and the majority of the people, at the next election, shall have indorsed it. The old system works badly. The people must have a reform. A portion of the people of Chicago do not enjoy the very objects of government; they do not get justice through their judicial tribu. nals, whose very purpose has been perverted and defeated. We must do something to preserve just objects and aims. Gentlemen must not be carried away by the machinery, but look at the ends to be accomplished by all governmnents. If one mode will not answer, let us devise some other, and keep experimenting until we have accomplished the great object for which go~vernment is established — the security of life, liberty and property, and the obtaining of in dependent, impartial and proper tribunals, to administer and enforce the laws, and preserve the public peace. I shall, therefore, vote "Aye," not without some regret. I deeply regret to know that in an~y part of our EState, the old system of elective justices of the peace does not seem to work well. But it is admitted that it does lnot. We must atford a remedy for the people, not only of that city, but of every other large city in the State hereafter. Let us endeavor in good faith to adopt some means of redressing this wrong. If what is proposed is found inefficient, the Constitution can be amended, and another adopted that will better accomplish the objects sought. lMr. HIAY. Mr. President. I move the previous question. The motion for the previous question r commence eastward and not here-not in this democratic State of Illinois. I sup- pose that all claim to be democrats in this , State, believing in the right of the people to govern themselves. - I want the people of Cook county, like every other part of the State, to elect their own officers, from the lowest to the highest. I have been voting W with the gentlemen from Cook county upon all these questions that apply par ticularly to the city of Chicago, but upon this I cannot vote with them. I cannot say to them or their people that they shall not vote for their justices of the peace; that they will elect thieves. I have a better opinion of the people of Chicago than that. All I can say is, if there is a class of people there like that, in suffi cient numbers to control, I hope the bet ter class, like these gentlemen from Cook, will go to the polls, and not allow these designing men to control them. Mr. HAYES. Mr. President: I would say that the gentleman has misapprehended my remarks, if he understood me to say that this class of men control the better classes of Chicago-the honest peo pie of the city. The honest classes, I believe, who constitute the people at large, of that city,,re capable of governing themselves although they require sometimes to be waked up-but these minor officers are generally thought to be of so little importance, that they do not bring out the vote, and our people prefer to have them appointed by the Governor. Mr. HANKINS. Mr. President: Then I would say they had better attend t,o that, and not ask the Governor to appoint them, but bring the better class out and let them control and govern the other class-not make this exception. Mr. UNDERWOOD. Mr. President:w If we wish to preserve the blessings of liberty and of go)od government, we must be eminently practical. In looking over the civilized world, we find a very sma.l portion of it under republican g,)vernment. Why? Because it is not adapted to their condition. It is no doubt the best government on earth, where society is in a condition to enjoy its blessings and to exercise suffrage properly. Now, sir, it is no new doctrine that 'Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty." It is no new doctrine that cities are the eye sores of the body politic. It was so announced by Mr. Jefferson, the great authority for both democrats and republicans, many years ago. And, while no one can have more confidence in an elective judiciary chosen in rural districts, where people are practically educated, and exercise their suffrage with sound discretion, I think that the accounts in newspapers and observation will prove that, in the larger cities, like New York, New Orleans and St. Louis, it is essentially necessary for the preservation of peace, liberty, life and property, that something should be done towards a reformation. In Chicago, undoubtedly, the great body of the people are business men, engrossed, it must be admitted, too much in business matters. They do not take that active interest in local elections for small offices in minor matters, that they ought to. They are to blame for it, but we must take them as they are. For the more important officers their votes may be counted upon. They will lay aside their business for such occasions. But these t t t t I I i e .1 APP.IL 26, 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1485 before the justice, where the shyste stands at his side to help to plunder th victim. And they have plundered peo ple out of thousands of dollars every year, as I have been informed. As far as this class of officers are concerned, we are will. iing to give up that "grand right," as the gentleman calls it-the right of popular el ection. We are contented to govern ourselves on the broad principle of self-government; we are contented to elect our Presidents, members of Congress, Governors, members of the General Assembly, and Constitution makers, on a broad scale, to make and execute the laws and Constitution under which we live; and when we find it is for the best interests of our people, to protect the poorer classes, and secure good justices of the peace in the manner now proposed, we are willing to resort to that, even if we lose the "great riglit"-of ejecting a petty officer. I hope the amendment will not be adopted. Mr. HANKINS. Mr. President: I am opposed to the substitute. Up to this time, I have taken but little part in the debates, and have taken none whatever on this articles but when I see a disposition to except officers in Chicago from th6 general provisions of the Constitution, I must raise my voice against it. I had expected to hear this, but not so early. I had expected to hear persons declare that officers should be appointed, and not elected, and I find that Chicago is the first to put forward that propositiol'i. Gentlemen tetl us they have people there who are not capable of governing themselves, and front the remarks made here by gentlemen from that city,we would infer they also had a class of designing men, wli,-) c(yntrol that other class, and place in office men who are, as they have said themselves, thieves. I have heard the preposition announced sooner-, than I expected. People are becoming alarmed already. I said th —-,.t Chicago should not be made an exception. Let her elect her officers. I am in flavor of the people eleCtiDg their own officers. If tile people of this country, and particularly of Chicago, cannot c(.)ntrol themse'4ves, declare that they are afraid of the people, then they say that to that extent, the government is a fail re If it i a it r' 48 6 CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION TUESDAY, was agreed to, and the main question or- YEAS. dered. Abbott, Fuller Robinson, The question being on the adoption of Allen, of Alx.,Gamble, Ross, the amendment offered by Mr. Browning, Allen, of Crfd.,Goodell, Scholfield, Andeson,Goodhue, Sedgwick, to the substitute offered by Mr. Hayes, Anderson, Goodhue, Sedgwick,oo the yeas and inys were ordered, and be- Archer, HainsofCook,Sherrill, Archer, Hankins, snyder, b h o~t fCo ony ihu n ing taken, resulted-yeas, 18; nays, 46- Bayne, Hart, Springer, as follows: Benjamin, Harwood, Tincher, Bowman, Hay, Tubbs, YEAS. Browning, Hayes, Turner, Abbott, Browning, Rice, Cary, Hildrup, Underwood, Allen of Crfd.,Cummings, Ross, Church, McCoy, Vandeventer, Anderson, Forman, Sharp Cody, McDowell, Wagner, Archer, Hankins, Wagner Coolbaugh, Merriam, Wait, Benjamin, McDowell, Wells Craig, Moore, Wall, Bowman, Merriam, Wilson-18. Cross, Parker, Wellashburn, Cummings, Parks. Wells,dietnthpepeothrihofeet NAYS. Dement, Perley, Wendling, Allen of Alex. Haines of CookSedgwick Ellis, Peire, Wbeaton, p Anthony, Hart, Sherrill,' English, Poage, Whiting, Anhny, Hat hrl,Bayne, Harwood, Snyder, Forman, Rice Wilson-4. Cary, Hay, Springer, -x Church, Hayes, Tincher, NAYS. Cody, Hildi-drup, Tubbs, Coolbaugh, McCoy, Turner Sharp-,. Craig, Moore, Underwood, ABSENT, OR NOT VOTING. Cross, Parker, Vandeventer, Dement, Parks, Wait, Atkins, Eldredge, Pillsbury, English, Perley, Wall, Bromwell, Hainesotf L'k, Skinner, Fox, Peirce, Washburn, Brown, Hanna, Sutherland, Fuller, Poage, Wendl ng, Bryan, King, Truesdale, Gamble, Robinson, Wheaton, Buxton, Medil, Wright, Goodell, Scholfield, Whiting-46. Cameron, Neece, Mr. President-18. Goodhue, So the motion of Mr. Hayes, to strike ABSENT, OR NOT VOTING, out section forty, was agreed to. Atkins, Ells, Pillsbury, The PRESIDENT. The question is Bromwell, Haines of Lake,Skinner, upon inserting the substitute offered by Brown, Hanna, Sutherland, the gentleman from Cook [Mr. Hayes]. Bryan, King, Truesdale, The yeas and nays were ordered. The Buxton, Mediii, Wright, Se Buxton, Neece, Mr. PreidenWt-i t Secretary proceeded to call the roll. Eidredge, Mr. ALLEN, of Crawford (when his name was called) said: With the addi So the motion of Mr. Browning, to tional vote that Chicago now has, under strike out the words "but only on the the operation of the fifteenth amendment, recommendation of a maji)rity of the I have no doubt all the difficulties the judges of the circuit, superior and county gentlemen complain of, will be corrected, courts," from the substitute offered by when they get to the polls. [Laughter.] Mr. Hayes for section forty, was not agreed I therefore vote "No." to. ~~~~~~to. -Mr. BAYNE (when his name was The PRESIDENT. The question is called) said: Under the suggestion offerupon striking out the section and insert- ed by the gentleman from Cook [Mr. img the substitute proposed by the gen- Coolbaugh], with reference to the gentles tlemaa from Co,ok [Mr. Hayes] The man from Crawford [Mr. Allen], that if Secretary will read the substitute. he should vote "No," on this question, it The Secretary read the substitute offer- would hinderhis election for Governor, I, ed by Mr. Hayes, as follows: ed by Mr. Hayljuesot, as follows: i not wishing to get myself in that oredica SEc. 40. All justices of the peace in the ment, therefore vote "Ave." [Laughter.] city of Chicago shall be appo(inted by the Mr BENJAMIN (wn his name was h te Governor, by and with the advice and con sent of the senate (but only upon the recom- called) said: Mr. President: I desire to mendation of a majority of the judges of the explain my vote. circuit, superior and county courts), and for I voted in favor of the amendment pro such districts as are now or shall hereafter b y the gentleman. [ provided by law. They shall hold their offices psdb h etea rmAas[r iettee for four vears, and until their,uccessors have Brownitll], for the reason that I desired to been commissioned and qualifierl, but they preserve the independence of the judi may be removed by summary proceeding in ciary of Coi,k counlty. I was afraid that the circuit or superior court for extortion or the iudges would be annoyed by petitions other malfeasance. Existing justices of the peace and police magistrates may hold their and applications, coming up from every offices until the expiration of their respective ward in the city; and would, after mak terms. ithg their recommendations for justices of Mr WASHBURN. Mr. President: I the peace, be charged with partisanhip. call for a division of the question. In order to keep the judiciary free from The PRESIDENT. The question is all political, partisan influences and first upon striking out the section. charges, I voted in favor of the proposed Mr. COOLBAUGH. What would be amendment; but, inasmuch as it did not the effect, if the motion to strike out prevail, and it seems to be the wish of the should prevail? Would it prevent the gentlemen who represent Cook county, adoption of the substitute? that this substitute shall be adopted, I The PRESIDENT. It would not pre- vote "Aye."a vent the adoption of the substitute. Mr. BROWNING (when his name was The motion of the gentleman from called) said: Mr. President: I will avail Cook [Mr. Hayes] is to strike out and myself of the privilege of saying a word insert. It is the right of any gentleman in explanation of my:vote. to call for a division of the question. I am very decidedly in favor of the The question is upon the motion to appointment of these officers by the Gov strike out. - error; and if this proposed substitute The yeas and nays were ordered, and gave him the appointment, I should sup being taken, resulted-yeas, 64; nays, 1 p(rt it. But it does not. He has no more — as follows:: freedom of choice in the selection of the CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION TIESDAY, 1486 persons to be appointed, than any other man in the community will have. The appointments are to be made by the courts of Cook county, and the officers after appointment are subject to removal by the coverts of Cook county, without any intervention on the part of the Governor, either in selection or removal. I am opposed to stripping the executive of his just and constitutional powers, and vesting them in the judiciary department. I theref,re vote "No." Mr. FOX (when his name was called) said: Mr. President: Being opposed to divesting the people of the right of electinlg their own (fficers, and placing the power either with the executive or the judiciary, I vote "No." Mr. TINCHER (when his name was called) said: Mr. President: I would like to accommodate the delegates from Cook county, and the citizens of Cook county, if I could do it consistently. I believe that the same law, and the same regulations that regulate the other portions of the State should regulate Cook county. I therefore vote "No." Mr. WASHBURN, (when his name was called) said: In accordance with that great principle of popular government,the fundamental law of popular libertythat all governments are created by the people, and for the benefit of the people, that the people have the right to choose their own officers to administer their government, and that they should not abdicate or abandon this right, either to the executive, judicial, or any other department of the government, I vote "No." Mr. WE1NDLING, (when his name was called), said: Thib, I believe, is the first time during my connection with this Convention that I have risen to explain my vote. I am as warm an advocate of the rights of the people as the gentleman trom Williamson [Mr. Washburn], or any other gentleman upon this floor. I believe the people should have the right to select their own o,fficers, and I believe in al. the fundamental democratic principles which have been alluded to by gentlemen who have risen to explain their votes; but all this is not applicable to the case in point, for the simple reason that we are bound to take the words of the Cook county delegation, who represent the public sentiment there. I think the unanimity with which that singularly uniharmonious body known as the' Co{>k co)unty delegation," have acted on this floor in regard to this proposition, warrants us in believing that it is the wish of the people of Chicago to have that clause inserted ill the Constitution. While w1e have had several sad spectacles of great disagreement among these distinguished gentlemen on several important subjects, yet uponl this they have been like the lion tnd the lamb —they have lain down together. They have supported it harmonio~usly, an d as they desire it, as it is the wish of the people of Chicago, and as ~t doers not affectt the interests of my people, wither in their pockets or any other way, I can see no good reason for denying ChiSago what she requests in this particular. I am strongly opposed to the principle it ~nvolves, audif ~t infringed on the rights and privileges of the people of the State elsewhere, in the slightest degree, I would vote against it, but as it is a matter belonging exclusively, to Chicago, and APRIL 26, 1870. DEBATES AXD PROCEEDINGS. 1487 as itsest eteuaiosrqeto eeec oCo out.I osntpegs n hswr oeett n reference to Cook county. It does not interfere with the other counties at all, and as the fees of that office in Cook county amount to such a large sum that it has been a corruption fund for years, corrupting the morals of our people, politically and otherwise, I think it would be an act of injustice upon the part of this Convention to strike out the section. Mr. SEDGWICK. Mr. President: I move to lay the motion to strike out upon the table. The motion was agreed to. Mr. ANTHONY. Mr. Presi;.dent: Now I offer the following substitute. The Secretary read the substitute offered by Mr. Anthony, -as follows: At the general election, to be held in November, 1870, under this Constitution, there shall be elected a recorder of deeds for Cook county, who shall hold his office for the term offour years, and until his successor is elected and qualified. Mr. CODY. Mr. President: I desire to offer the following amendment to the substitute: TEAS.S Allen of Alex,Haines of Co'lk,Scholfield, Anthony, Hart. Sherrill, Bayne, Harwood, Snyder, Benjamin, Hay, Springer, Cary, Hayes, Tubbs, Church, Hildrup, Turner, Coolbaugh, McCov, Underwood, Craig, Merriam, Vandeventer, Cross, Moore Wait, Dement, Parker, Wall, Fuller, Parks, Wells, Gamble, Perley, Wendling, Goodell, Peirce, Wheaton, Goodhue, Poa,e, Whiting-42. pledges, and th is were a movement to in terfere with these men, for the purpose of doing them justice, the case would be different. Mr. HAYES. Mr. President: I would say to the gentleman that there is no dis tinction made between the recorder of Cook county and other officers. The numerous fees of all the other officers have been cut down, and none of them can receive more than the salary of a circuit j udge. Mr. CODY. Mr. President: The gentleman, whom I am proud to call my friend, is mistaken. The only change we have made, or intend to make, is that compensations may be fixed by law or the county boards, and until the Legislature or county board chooses to make changes, they remain as they are. This ameLiduient is proposed with a view that, if adopted, it may be by the Committee on Revision pl'aced in the article on counties, where it properly belongs. I hope it will be adopted, fbr it seems to be simple justiee that this officer, who seems to be thus selected out for some unknown, or at least unexpressed reason, should be left upoll the same footing as are all the other officers in the State. Mr. ANTHONY. Mr. President: I desire to say in reply to the gentleman, that we are not making a Constitution for the benefit of office, holders, but for the people, and that we are not to stop because the gentleman from Du Page [Mr. Cody] bappens to have some ptarticular friend in the circuit clerk's office in Cook county. What is the proposition of the gentleman from Du Page [Mr. Cody]? It is simply that we shall stop our business and wait until the term of office of some office-holder expires, and then wait until the General Assembly takes action, provided the lobby will allow the General Assembly to do it, to save some of these officers. I predict, if that provision be put in the Constitution, that it will be simply giving what power the Legislature has now. It will be no reform at all. If we permit this matter to be acted upon by the General Assembly, we will see a lob by down here sufficiently strong to put off the time of electing a recorder for years. We are not proposing to legislate anybody ouL of office at all. We merely provide for electing a recorder. We leave the clerk of the circuit court in ocur coJunty untouched, we do) not interfere with any of his fees or emolumlents. We simply say we shall have a rec(:)rder of deeds elected in our counlty. The flame thing was providedt for by the Constitution o~f 1862 We wish to provide fo~r it now. If thals Constitution goses inlto effect before November nest, let us have the betnefit of it as speedily as possible. We put every officer in that county upon a salary -- mlaking no distinction between the circuit clerk and the clerk of the superior court, the sheriff, coroner and all the rest. I have yet to learn that any mlan in this country has a vested right ill ally ~,ficec where the public good demlands a change. IL that county it has been shown over and over again that the person who acts as circuit clerk, acts also as recorder of deeds; that last year, as he hlimself intbrmed m+, he received a gross amlounxt of over $70,000. We are in favor of cutting down theso fees; but wre do not disturo this clerk~ of NAYS. Abbott, Ellis, Allen of Cr'fd,English, Anderson, Forman, Archer, Fox, Bowman, Hankins, Browning, McDowell, Cody, Rice, Cummings, Robinson, The General Assembly shall provide for the election of a recorder of deeds for all coun ties having a population of forty thousand, who shall hold his office for the term of four years, and until his successor shall be elected a,d qualified: Provided, this shall in no way affect the present incumbents during the time for which they were elected. Mr. CODY. I offer that, Mr. President, in the shape that it is, to meet the objections that might be raised that the section on this subject in the report of the Committee on Counties has not yet been adopted by the Convention. As adopted by the Committee of the Whole the section is applicable to the whole State. I refer to section six of the article on counties. Mr. ANTHONY. Mr. President: Does not this amendment say that the General A,,embly may provide? Mr. CODY. It does, Mir. President. Mr. ANTHONY. Then, Mr. Presi dent, it does not suit the case at all. The amendment provides that the General Assembly may provide, whereas the article proposes to express in the organic law what shall be. Mr. CODY. Mr. President: In all provisions heretofore adopted it has beetn declared to be the intention of this Con vention not to interfere with the term of office of any incumbent in the State. And when any provision has been tein porarily adopted having a tendency t uo affect preseLt incumbents, it has beei stricken out as soon as reached by the Convention. Such was the case with re gard to the (ffice of circuit judge. Such was the expression of the gentleman from Sangamon [Mr. Hay] when he moved the amendment as to the fees (.f the present officers of the executive de partment, and I understand it to be the intention of this Convention to leave every officer in the State in the condition in which we find him, giving the General Assembly power to regulate the fees as heretofore. I offer this amendment with the view of applying the same principle to Cook county. If gentlemen have any designs against any particular officer or individual they should say so. I admit, sir, if this were a case similar to that of the officers who were elected last fall in Cook county, under a pledge to pay a portion of their fees and receipts into the county treasury, and have failed to fulfill their SEic. 41. The Gen eral A ssembly shall provide for the election of a recorder of deeds tor said county of Cook, who shall hold his office for the term of f5,ur years, and until his successor shall be elected eLd qualified. Mr TURNER. Mr. President: In the county article we have precisely that provision-except-that it does not apply exclusively to Cook county. It applies to all counties having a population of over fifty thousand. It is theref(-:re, entirely superfluous, and I move to strike it out. Mr. ANTHONY. Mr. President: I offe,r a substitute. The PRESIDENT. The Secretary can read it for iiiformation, but under the rules the motion to strlike out takes precedence of all motions to amend, and is deemed equivalen-t to a rnjection of the section. Mr. ANTHONY. I wish to make a provision in reference to the election. If we adopt the Constitution I suppose the election will take place in 1870. Mr. TURNER. That will g:) properly in the general article. There is no necessity to place it in this article, as I understand it. It is the alm,ost unqanimous opinion' of the Convention that there shall be a recorder of deeds elected in all counties having a population of over fifty thousand. Mr. It&INES, of Cook. Mr. Presi dent: I understand there is no provision, as yet, for the election of a recorder posi tively, and if there is anjy one thing that our people desire, it is that the rec,rder's office shall be separated from the clerk's office We are now upon the article which ha AP]ETIL 26) 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1487 as it seems to be the unanimous request of the Cook county delegation, who reflect the sentiments of the people of Chicago, I vote "Aye." The result was then adnounced-yeas, 42, nays, 23-as follows: Ross, Sedgwick, Sharp, Tincher, Wagner, Washburn, Wilson-23. ABSENT. OR NOT VOTING. Eldred Pillsbury, Haine.. Lake,Skinner, Hanna,, Sutherland, KinL,, Truesdale, Medill, Wright, Neece, Mr. President-18. Atkins, Bromwell, Brown, Bi-yau, Buxton, Cameron, So the motion of Mr. Hayes'o insert a substitute for sectioa forty, .'s agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is on the adoption of the substitute, aud it will be declared adopted. The question is on the forty-first section. Tile Secretary read section forty-one, as follows: 148S CONSTITUTIONAL OOVENTJO TUESDAY, the circuit court at all. We merely say we some man in office. We leave him in never met him in my life, and I would some man in office. We leave him in office, but we say that the recording of deeds is a matter of so much importance that it should constitute a distinct department. Now, Mr. President, with that explanation, I move to lay the amendment of the gentleman upon the table. Mr. TINCHER. Mr. President: I hope that the gentleman will withdraw his motion. Mr. CHURCH. Mr. President: We will vote that motion down. Mr. HITCHCOCK. Mr. President: I appeal to my friend from Cook [Mr. Anthony] to withdraw his motion. Mr. ANTHONY. I will do so. Mr. TINCHER. Mr. President: I de sire the floor for a few moments. It may be thought out of my place to engage at all in the discussion upon this question. But I claim that we are here to do for the people of the State,and for all portions of this State alike, and to deal out evenhanded justice to all. The disposition that the gentleman from Cook [Mr. Anthony], and others manifest to take from this man, the clerk of Cook county, the legitimate fees of his office that he is entitled to by law I have nothing to say about. I only want to say, Mr. President, that whatever applies to the clerk of any county, and all other counties, should apply to the cleik of Cook county, and whatever applies to the clerk of Cook county should apply to the clerks of all other counties having a population of 40,000. There has been a great deal said here in regard to the amount of fees received by the clerk of Cook county. It may be that his fees are enormous-he may receive his forty, fifty or sixty thousand dollars annually, for all I know. That will not affect my vote one way or the other. He is but receiving, I presume, the legitimate feesof the office to which the people of Cook county have elected him, and as far as my vote goes, it will pierpetuate and keep him there (until disposed of by some general rule), and let him receive every dollar he is entitled to, under the law, during the time for which he was elected. The amendment of the gentleman from DuPage [Mr. Cody], places every officer in the State upon the same footing, and that is right. I do not know what it costs to be elected to an office in Cook county, nor do I know what it costs in ally other county, but any man who has had anything to do with political matters, even in a small way, knows very well that no man cfan make a campaign for any office in the State without it costing him some money, and if we now seek, by any provision in this Constitution, to take from any office-holder a portion of the funds that he is justly entitled to, we take from him what is his right. We do not know how much it costs to be elected a clerk in Cook county and I am willing to vote for a provision that the next clerk may be placed in such an attitude that he shall not have the money to spend t-but when a man has made a campaign, spent the money necessary to be elected, and has been elected, he is entitled to the emoluments-df that office, during the time for which he is elected. I presume no gentleman can charge me of feeling any interest in the gentleman alluded to in Chicago, except on the principle that we must deal with all alike, for I can say, as I before remarked, that I .L CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION T-uF,SDAY, 1488 never met biin in my life, and I would not know him if I should meet him. Notwithstanding there has been a 11 barna. cle" fight in Chicago, and a part of the men who were elected upon the issue of small fees, have turned around and stuck them in their own pockets, until the gentlemen who clean out "barnacles" get a better excuse than they have got, they have no right to couae and make a raid here upon those who have been elected in Cook county, upon general principles, and who only take the legal fees, as others have always done bef)re them. I have full faith in the intelligence and integrity of this Convention, not permitting any man in the State of Illinois, who has an office, to be attacked here, al3d the profits of his office swept away from him by some little invidious constitutional provision. I can see very clearly that there is an insidious provision put into a section that we have just passed. How far it affects it I do not know, but if gentlemen design to affect the emoluments and profits of that offi. cer, under the amendment of the gentleman from DuPage [Mr. Cody], the purposes will evidently be thwarted and will utterly fail; and they ought to fail. There are many counties in this State where the people complain that the fees are too high-but what county, except Cook, ha5 made any complaiiat-and theirs is only made to take the clerk's fees to replenish the county treasury. Fees ought to be reduced upon general principles. No member ought to come up here and make a raid upon a Single official in any one county, seeking to deprive him of what the law gives him and what he expected to receive when he made the campaign, and I appeal to the Convention, that, while mak. ing provision in the future that these fees and salaries shall not be ab(,ve a reasonable price, we may not place our. selves upon the record as making a raid upon a single individual of Cook county. I am for the amendment proposed by the gentleman from DuPage [Mr. Cody]. Mr. HITCHCOCK. Mr. President: I rise, not for the purpose of debatit; this 9 question, but f(,.r the purpose of correcting a serious misapprehension of the gentleman from DuPage [Mr. Cody] as to what I said in Committee of the Whole, when, the circuit court at all. We merely say -we want a recorder of deeds in our county, or some person to take charge of that departinent. The people demand that this shall be done. We interfere with no other county'i.u this State. The gentleman talks about selecting out this circuit clerk and making him a vic. tim-a victim of a man receiving seventy thousand a year, gross! A victim of a mail pocketing an amount twice the amount of the salary of the President of the United States! What a cruel martyrdom it would be, if the salary of this particular circuit clerk sl-iould be reduced 1 Mr. CHURCH (in his seat). Who is that? Talk it right out. Mr. ANTHONY. The gentleman whom the gentleman from Du Page [Mr. Codyj pronounced a eulogy upon in this Convention about two months ago, Mr. Gassette. Mr. CODY. Mr. President: Will the gentleman allow me to ask him a ques. tion? Mr. ANTHONY. Yes, sir. Mr. CODY. Did you not hear the President of this Convention state upon the floor of this Convention that iie had examined the books, and did he rot make and vouch. for statements from those books, in relation to the recei ts of that office being much below your present statement? Mr. ANTHONY. I do not know what the President of the Convention may have, said; but will say to the gentleman from Du Page [Mo. Cody], that I know as much about this thing as he does. I repeat to this Convention that the gentleman upon whom the eulogy was pronounced, at the time we were iaominated for this Conventioyi last fall, appeared in the republican convention, and then and there beat one candidate to this Convention, because he woiild not make pledges to him that he would not interfere with his fees. A letter was published to that effect from one candidate, which I have in my desk, in which he stated that he was defeated in beii3ga candidate to this Convention because he would not pledge himself that he would not interfere with this man's fees. I do not desire to do injustice to any. body. I am ]not SiDgliDg out the clerk of the circuit court for martyrdom, al t APRIL 26, 1870. DEBATES AD PROCEEDINGS. 1489 loMr. TURNER. Certainly, if I can have the floor at the opening of the next session. The motion to adjourn was agreed to. So the Convention (at twelve o'clock and twenty minutes) adjourned. on the one hand there were st atements of enormous receipts by the recorder, on the other hand he had exhibited to me and to othermembers of the Convention (and it was the best evidence upon which, at that time, we could act) a statement according to which his receipts were very much less. Mr. CODY. Mr. President: I would like to ask of the gentleman this question: Was not your statement that you had no doubt, whatever, that that statement was the correct one? Did you not so state at the time substantially? Mr. HITCHCOCK. Mr. President: I did not state that I had no doubt whatever that the statement was a correct one. I stated that I had no reason to doubt the statement and I had no reason to doubt it, for it was one of those statements about which I had absolutely no information that should suggest a doubt. But it is a very different thing to state to a Committee of the Whole of this Convention that a statement or exhibit has been made by an officer, and that I had no reason to doubt it, and to state that I had examined the books and could assert the fact. Mr. CODY. Mr. President: I understood the gentleman, at the time he made those former remarks, to state that he took the statement of the book keeper, and believed it correct. Mr. HITCHCOCK. Mr. President: The recorder of the county told me he took it from the book-keeper, and that was all the information I had. What I do not desire to go before the Convention or the community is, that the statemnents rest upon any knowledge or information of my own. Mr. COOLBAUGH. Mr. President: I was not here at the, time the discussion took place in which the honorable President [Mr. Hitchcock] took part, but I read the report of the debate, and, if I read it correctly, he stated that the clerk of the circuit court had exhibited to him a statement, showing that the net profits of his office were very much less than had been stated. I will ask my colleague whether in that statement he had not reduced those*net profits to the sum ef twenty-two thousand; dollars or twenty-three thousand dollars, by charging among the incidental ex' penses of the office his own salary of fifteen thousand dollars a year? M~r. HITCHCOCK. Mr. President:. I ~have no idea whatever o~f how he reduced the receipts. He merely gave me the aggregat-e of his net receipts. hir. COOLBAUGH. Mr. President: I amn sure I have been credibly informed, that in the expenses of thle office ho included fifteen thous lmd dollars salary. MrI. HITCHCOCK. The items I did nlot go into, and be did not tell mie how he made them out, or how he reduced them. My own present conviction, I ought to say, that I may not be misunderstood, isJ, that the rates were very enormously re-' duced in somle improper way. But that is merely my judgment —merely mny opinion. I only rose to correct a misstatement, and will say nothing further. MIr. TURNER. Mr. Presidenlt — ties and party relations. The de mocratic party had joined with an independent branch of the republican party, and at an almost incalculable amount of labor and expense, that canvass had been-car ried on with a great deal of vigor, the result being that what are known as the "independents" succeeded by a majority of something like ten thousand. I do not remember now what the vote of that county really was, but the majority of ten thousand was not a very great major ity for the immense vote that was cast. Mr. HAYES. Only two to one. Mr. TURNER. Even if it were two to one, there was a very large vote, a very respectable vote that still adhered to the republican organization, and it was defeated. It transpired, sir, that at the same time these delegates were elected, a number of county officers were also elected, and I grant upon an assumed or avowed declaration that there should be a reduction in their fees; but when the article was brought before the Judiciary Committee there was not a word in it in regard to the present reduction of any of their fees, or of legislating any of them out of office. It struck me as though there were something invidious in this, and I learned, whether correctly or not, I do not pretend to say, that the clerk of the circuit court had been a most powerful engine in supporting what was called the republican party in the election,-which may account for the very great hostility there is to thatitdividual. Now that his party failed in their election, I understand that we! have already provided, and that the entire delegation from Cook county are inl favor of the reduction of fees in these offices of Cook county. - The point is made here that this clerk of the circuit court has received a very large salary. The amount of that salary has not been defined. It was first stated at $80,000 and $100,000, and down as low as $20,000 or $30,000. I wish to state this, that the salary which he receives today is the same as was received by the predecessors of the present incumbent for the last ten years, and there has been no complaint until this year of grace. Mr. HAINES, of Cook. Mr. President: I beg leave to say that I think I know better about Cook county matters than the gentleman from StephensorL [Mr. Turner]. There have been complaints about these fees and salaries forf the last ten years, and we have tried to remedy the evil by, and through the Legislature, but could not, and hence we seek redress here. Sir. TURNER. MIr. President: Let us inquire who pays this salary. Not the taxpayers of Cook county, but the unfortunate men all over the State, who trade in Chicago, make contracts there, and are sued there. The clerk receives no more salary for cases tried there than other officers do) throughout the State. Mr. PEIRC:E. M~r. President: B1elieving this subject has been sufficiently ventilated, I move the previous questioxn. Mr. HATES. 3~r. President: I would ask the gentleman to withdraw his mlotion for the previous question, until I offer an amendment. M/lr. ROSS. Mr. President: I rise to a point of order. T~here are two amendments pending already., AFTERNOON SESSION. TUESDAY, April 26, 1870. The Convention met at two o'clock P. M., and was called to order by the President, pro tempore (Mr. Allen, of Crawford). JUDICIAL DEPARTMENT. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The gentleman from Cook [Mr. Anthony] moved a substitute for section forty-one. I he gentleman from DuPage [Mr. Cody] offeredan amendment to the substitute, upon which the gentleman from Stephenson [Mr. Turner] has the floor. The Secretary read the substitute offered by Mr. Anthony, as follows: At thegeneral election to be held in November, 1870, under this Constitution, there shalt be elected. recorder of deeds for Cook county, who shall hold his office for the term of four years, and until his successor is elected and qualified. Also, the amendment offered by Mr. Cody, as follows: The General Assembly shall provide for the e lection of a recorder of deeds for all counties having a population of forty thousand, who shall hold his office for the term of four years, and until his successor shall be elected and qualified: Provided, This shall in no way affect thepresent incumbents during the time for which they were elected. Mr. TURNER. Mr. President: It doubtless was observed that when this section came up, and when an amendment was offered, it produced no small degree of excitement. I believe, sir, that since the Convention opened, no other subject has seemed to attract such unusual interest. Why that excitement? Why that interest? There must be something underly ing this question, more than isapparent upon its face. I shall endeavor, in the few remarks I have to mnake, to point out some of the underlying principles which are involved in the vote which we are now about to take. - After the Committee on the Judiciary Department had been organized, we were presented with what purported to be the draft of such a section or series of sections as were required for Cook county. In that draft every office and officer in Cook county was retained excepting one. That officer was entirely ignored, and the article provided that at the time that this Colnstitution should be submitted to the people for its ratification, there should be elected in the county of Cook a clerk of the circuit court. In that draft, sir, there was no mention made of the division of the office of clerk and recorder. It simply terminated the office of clerk of the circuit court, and provided that another clerk should be elected, retaining all the other officers. My attention was called to this in ieading over the article, and very soon the matter was talked over, and there were several modifications made. It transpired then, that in the political issues which had been fought out in Chicago, at the time the delegates from that county were elected to this Convention, there had been something like a break up of party ADJOUR3NMENT. ~ Mr. CODY. Will the gentleman give way to a motion to adjourn? 873 APRIL 26, 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1489 149 COSIUINLC:YNINTED The yeas and nays were ordered, and, being taken, resulted-yeas, 10; nays, 52-as follows: Allen of Alex.,Hay, Rosl Anthony, Hayes, Scholfield, Coolbaugh, Perley, Wall, Hlaines of Cook Rice, Wells-12. ABSENT, OR NOT VOTING. Allen of Cr'fd.,Haines of LakePoage, Bromwell, Hanna Skinner, Brown, Harwood, Springer, Bryan, Medill, Truesdale, Buixton, Neece, Wilson, Cameron, Parks, Wright, Eldredge, Pillsbury, Mra rep.dent-21. So the amendment offered by Mr. Cody was agreed to. The question being upon the substitute offered by Mr. Anthony, as amended, the Secretary read the substitute and amendment, as follows: [Substitute offered by Mr. Anthony.] At the general election to be held in November, 1l70, under this Cot,stitution, there shall be elected a recorder of deeds of Cook county, who shall hold his office for the term of four years, and until his successor is elected and qualified. [Amenidment offered by Mr. Cody, to substitute offered by Mr. Anthony.] The General Assembly shall provide for the election of a recorder of deeds for all counties having a population of forty thousand, who shall hold his office for the term of four years, and until his successor shall be elected and qoalifi,-d: Provided, that this shall in no way affect the present incumbents during the time for which they were elected. Mr. HAYES. Mr. President: I would iniquire as to the present state of the ques tion. I understood that the amendment of the gentleman fi-om DuPage [Mr. Cody] was offered as a substitute for that of the gentleman from Cook [Mr. Anthony]. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The Chair was under the impression that it was offered as an amendment, and it was so stated at the time. A substitute for a substitute pending would not be in order. Mr. HAYES. Has the previous question ceased to operate? The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. That depends on the intention of the mover. Yer. HAYES. The intention of the mover (myself) was whatever the gentleman from Grundy [Mr. Peirce] will state his intention was in first moving it. Mr. PEIRCE. The previous question was called by me on the section and the pending amendment The PRESII)ENT,pro tempore. The question is on the substitute of the gentleenan from Cook [Mr. Anthony], as amended. Mr. BROWNING. Mr. President: I ask for a division of the question, so as to take the vote on the two branches sep iarately. First on the branch offered by the gentleman from Cook [Mr. Anthony], and teen on the other branch. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The Chair thinks it is divisible, there being two independent propositions in the amended substitute. The Secretary read the amended sub stitute, as follows: At the general election to be held in November, 1870, under this Constitution, there shall be elected a recorder of deeds for CookC county, who shall hold his office for the term of four years, and until his successor is elected and qualified.g The General Assembly shall provide for the election of a recorder of deeds for all counties having a population of forty thousand, who shall hold his office for the term of four years and until his successo,r shall be elected and qualified: Provided, this shall in no way affect the present incumbents, during the time for which they were elected. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The Chair under stands the gentleman f rom Cook [Mlr. Anthony] introduced a substitute, which is in the nature of an amendment for section forty-one. To that the gentleman fromn DuPage [Mr. Cody] offered an amendment. A further amendment would not be in order, until the amendment pending is disposed, of. Mr. HAYES. Mr. President: I will then read it for information, and I think the propriety of the amendment will be seen at once by every one. But said incumbents shall be subject to all the provisions of this Constitution, and of the laws or the State providing fi,r a reduction of fees, or a limitation of salaries. Mr. President: I will ask the gentleman from DuPage [Air. Cody] whether he will accept? Well, sir, I now move the previous question, and will offer my amendment as an independent proposition, as soon as I can. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The previous question has been moved. The question is, shall the main question be now put? A division was ordered. The Convention divided, when, there being thirty-six in the affirmative and twenty-two in the negative, the motion fox the previous question was agreed to, and the main question ordered. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The question is upon the adoption of the amendment of the gentleman from Du Page [Mr. Cody]. Mr. H.AINES, of Cook. Mr. President: I call for the yeas and nays. Mr. TURNER. Mr. President: What is this upon? The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The amendment offered by thegentleman from DuPage [Mr. Cody]. Mr. SNYDER. Mr. President: How long after a vote is announced can gentlemen make calls for yeas and nays? The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The yeas and nays are called upon the main question. The Secretary will read the amendment. The Secretary read the amendment offered by Mr Cody, as follows: Fox, a Fuller, Gamble, Goodell, Goodhue Hankins' Hart, Hay, Hildrup, King, .McCoy, McDowell, Merriam, Moore, Parker Peirce, Robinson, ABSENT. OR NOT VOTING. Allen of Cr'fd.,Haines of L'ke,Poage, Bromwell, Hanna, Skinner, Brown, Harwood, Springer, Bryan, Medill, Triuesdale, Buxton, Neece, Wilson, Cameron, Parks, Wright, Eldredge, Pillsbury, Mr. President-21. So the substitute offered by Mr. Anthony was not agreed to. The PRESIDENT,pro tempore. The question recurs upon the second branch of the proposition —the amendment offered by the gentleman from DuPage [Mr. Cody], upon which the yeas and nays have been ordered. The yeas and nays were ordered. The Secretary proceeded to call the roll. Mr. WHEATON (when his name was called) said: If this amendment had read "counties of one hundred thousand inhabitants," I should have been in favor of it. As it now reads, it compels our county to have two officers where one-can do all the work, and requires our county to pay two officers, where we could pay one twenty-five hundred dollars, and make him do the duties of circuit clerk and recorder. I must vote against the amendment, as it requires the Legislature to divide the two offices in counties of forty thousand inhabitants. We have, more offices ~ in our county, now, than we can stand. I vote "No." The result was then announced-yeas, 46, nays 16-as follows: The General Assembly shall provide for the election of a recorder of deeds for all counties having a population of forty thousand, who shall hold his office for the term of four years, and until his successor shall be elected and qualified: Protided, this shall in no way affect the present incumbents during the time for which they were elected. The question being on the amendment offered by Mr. Cody, the yeas and nays were ordered, and being taken, resultedyeas 50; nays 11 —as follows: CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION TUESDAL-T, 1490 NAYS. TEIIS. Allen of Alex. Ilaves, Anthony, Perley, Coolbaugh, Rice, Haines 6-f Clok, Ross, Scholfield, Wall-10. NA-YS. Abbott, Anderson, Archer, Atkins, Baylie,. Benjamin, Bowman, Browning, Cary, Church, Cody, Cross, Craig, Cummings, Dement, Ellis, English, Forman, Sedgwick. Sharp, Sherrill, Snyder, Sutherland, TiDeher, Tubbs, Turner' Underwood, Vandeventer, Wagner, Wait, Washburn, Wells, Wendling, Wheaton, Whiting-52. YEAS. Forman, Fuller, Gamble, Goodell, Goodhue, Hankins, Hart, Hildrup, King, McCoy, McDo vell, Merriam, Moore, Parker, Peirce, Abbott, Anderson, Archer, Atkins, Bayne, Benjamin, Bowman, Browning, Cary, Chur(h, Cody, Craig, Cross, Ciimmings, Ellis, Engliish, Robinson., Sedgwick, Sharp, Sherrill, Snyder, Sutherland, Tinclier, Tubbs, Turner, Underwood, Wagner. wit', Wastiburn, W'ells, WendliDg-46,. TEI&S. Forman, Fox, Fuller, Gamble, Goodel, Goodhue, Hankins, Hart, Hildrup, King, T*ICCOY, McDowell, Merriam, Moore,, Parker, Peirce, Robilnson, i -- Abliott, Anderson, Archer, Atkins, Bayne, Benjamin, Bowman, Browning, Cary, Church, Cody, Crai,-, 1. Cross, Cummings, fD tineul, Ellis, F, a,, I i s h, gedgwick, Sharp, Sherrill, Snyd(-,r, Sutherland, Tincher, Tubbs, Turner, Underwood, Vandeventer, Wagner, Wait, Washburn, Wendling, Wheaton. -Whiting0. NA.YB. Allen of Alxln,l-lay, Anthony, Hayes, Coolba.ugh, Perley, Dement, Rice, Fox, Ross, lialnes ofcook, Scholfield, V,,tndeventer, Wall, Wht-ato,n, Whiting_16. 0 APRIL 6, 1870. DEBATES AiND PROCEEDINGS. 141 The Clerk read section forty-two, as follows: SEC. 42. The General Assemblv shall prescribe the manner in which all fees shall be collected and paid over. by all officers. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The question is upon the adoption of section forty-two. Mr. HAYES. Mr. President: I will suggest to my colleague [Mr. Coolbaugh] that now is an opportunity to offer his amendment. iMr. COOLB&UGH. Mr. President: I will now offer my amendment, as an amendment to section forty two. The Secretary read the amendment offered by Mr. Coolbaugh, as follows: The compensation of all clerks of courts of record, the sheriff, recorder of deeds and coroner, as provided for in section thirtynine of this article, or as may otherwise be provided for, shall take effect and be in force from and after the adoption of this Constitution. ABSENT, OR NOT VOTING. Allen of Cwf'd,HainesofLake,Poage, Bromwell, Hanna, Skinner, Brown, Harwood, Springer, Bryan, Medill, Truesdale, Buxton, Neece, Wilson, Cameron Parks, Wright, Eldredge, Pillsuury, Mr. President-21. So the amendmeht offered by Mr. Co dy was agreed to. Mr. COOLBA.UGH. Mr. President: I offer the following as an additional sec tion, to come in after the one j ust adopted. The Secretary read the section offered by Mr. Coolb.iugh, as follows: The compensation of all clerks of courts of record, the sheriff, recorder of deeds and coroner, as provided for in section thirty-nine of this article, or as may otherwise be provided for, shall take effect and be in force trom and after the adoption of this Constitution. Mr. FOX. I rise to a point of order — whether or not an additional section is now in order, while we are going through with the article, section by section? The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The Chair does not know what the practice of the Convention has been upon that subject. Mr. COOLBAUGH. To obviate that objection, I will offer it as an addition to the section which has just been adopted. Mr. FOX. Then my point of order would be that we are operating under the previous question on that section. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The Chair is under the impression that the Conven,ion, having acted upon section forty-one, and adopted a substitute for it, an amendment to that section would not now be in order. Mr. COOLBAUGH. Is it then in order to be offered as a separate section? The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. Unless there is some established practice on the subject, the Chair thinks it would be in order to offer it as a separate see tion. If the practice has been the other way, the Chair will so rule. Mr. CHURCH. Mr. President: My recollection is that the practice has been not to entertain a motion for an additional section until an article has been con sidered, when considering it section by section. After the sections have all been considered, then it has been held to be in order to move additional sections. Mr. HITCIICOCK. Mr. President: I established the practice, after consulting the authorities, of passing, first, through with the amendments reported by the Ccmmittee of the Wth-le, and providing for the amendment of them, and then of taking up the article, section-by section, and of entertaining amendments to the sections, but not entertaining independ ent sections, not in form moved as amendmensts to the sections, untfi the Covuention had passed through with thse article;( and I have no doubt that practice is in conformity with the settled rules of parliamentary law. Mr. COOLBAUGH. Mr. President:.it is imlmaterial to me whether the Convention act on that proposition now, or allow it to be entertained after the adoption of section forty-two. It manifestly belongs to that division of the judiciary article which relates to Cook county, anld hence, if adopted at all, it should come in befo~re we proceed to the general provisions of the article. Mr. UJNDERWOOD. Sir. President: It can be offered as an amendment to section forty-three.... I d o not wan t t o discriminate against Mr. Gassette or anybody else. A'portion of the officers whose fees I propose to cut ' down, were elected on the same ticket on which I was elected as a delegate to this Convention. That is no reason why they should not come within the rule the same as anybody else. On behalf of the people of all classes and parties of Cook county, I ask the Convention to do this act ofjustice. The people expect it of their delegates on this floor, and I hope they will not be disap pointed.' do not speak in the interest of any party, clique, ring or set of officers, but on behalf of the people of the county, and I do hope that gentlemen of all sides will agree to this proposition. Here is a proposition on which people can vote un derstandingly, On which delegates on this floor can& do an act of simply justice to the people, discriminatinig in favor of no party; and I do hope they will. her. TI'URNER. Mr. President: I see great difficulty in this matter in this re spect. Fees are established by law. The fees will continue to be paid. We have ia our present ConStitUtiOn, and will have in this a clause providing that taxation shiall be equal. I sh,)uld like to know, sir, why the unfortunate community that have lawsuits and costs to pay, and that other class of community that buy ladds, and pay for recording deeds, should be required to put $200,000 or $300,000 into the Cook county treasury, for the purpQse of paying the Cook county debts. Therefore, I have been oppostd to this on thal ground more than anything else. I desire the General Assembly to act on this matter, and cut down these fees, so that there will be something like an agreement between the amount that will be collected it, the way of fees, and the amount of salaries paid. A man, as it now stands, would be compelled not only to pay his taxes, but to pay into the treasury of Cook county all these fees. Again, sir, it seems to me that it will lead to unutterable confusion-that the better way is to wait until the General Assembly can meet. -They will convene next winter, and they can arran-ge the whole matter according to justice. And, Mr. President, without any disrespect to the gentleman at all, I move to lay his amen:drment on the table. h Mr. HAINE:S, of C~ook. I appeal to the gentleman if it was quite generous in him,} after having accused the Cook county delegation of endeavoring to cut down the salaries of the county clerk, to cut off debate. He has now taken the other horn of the dilemma. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The question is onl laying the amendment on the table. The yeas andi nays were ordered, and, being taken, resulted-geas 26;i nays 27 -as follows: Mr. COOLBAUGH. Mr. President: The article we adopted a few niminut e s ago prevents the county of Cook from electing a recorder of deeds until two years from next fall. My proposition is., that in the reduction of the fees and emoluments which are now paid to the various county officers in Cook county, and which are conceded on all sides of this chamber and in all parts of the State, to be exorbitant and entirely dispioportionate to the value of the services rendered, the compensation provided for in section thirty-nine shall take effect and be in force from and after the adoption of this Constitution. Mr. President, I have no desire or wish to enter into the discussion of mere political questions relating to the county of Cook, of which we have had too much upon this floor since we assembled. There is no difference of opinion among the people whom I represent here, that the present emoluments of all our county officers are exorbitant, and that they should at the earliestpracticable moment be re duced t-) a reasonable sum. I propose, sir, to treat all our county officers alike. The fees of the circuit clerk are perhaps higher than those of many of the county officers, but they no more need to be reduced than those of the ()ffice of clerk of the superior court, or the sheriff, or perhaps the coroner. 1 do not propose to make fish of the one and flesh of theother, but I propose to operate uron them all alike, and without any r(egard to whether they are republi cans, "Iarnacles," or what n(et. I propose to apply the rule to them all, by allowing them all a just and adequate compensation, and no more. eNow, there can be no question at all of the propriety and of tile necessity of adopting a provision like this. There is no sense, ifi nmay be permitted to use that term, in saying that half a dozen gentlemen holding various offices in Cook county, shall rece.ve two, three, five, ten, or twenty times as much as is received by other public officers in this State, and there could he no objection, oecause they are not all in this section treated alike. There could be no obljection made by any one mau's fitiends, or by any party, in the adoption of a rule like this, and 1 appeal on behalf of the people of Cook county to gentlemen on both sides of this Convention, to do this act of justice to the people and the tax-payers of that tcounty. t t I DEB-ATES AUND PROCEEDINGS. APP.IL'-"61 1870. 1491 YEAS. Hart, Ilildrup, King, Merriam, Parker, Parks, P(.)age, Robinson, Sedgwick, Atkins, Ba,y ne, Benjamin, Church, Oody, Cross, English, (4oodell, Goodhue, Sharp, Sutherland, Turner, Wagner, Wait, Well,-, Wetidling, Wheaton-26. N',&YS. Abbott, Fox, Allen of Alex.. F alier, Rice, Roiia, p 1492 COXSTJT UTIOAL COYEXTION TUESDAY, orbitant. And it is claimed by the delegation from Cook county, that they are, excessively exorbitant there. There is rno doubt that from the fact that the amount of business is very large, the fees in that county amount to a large sum. The fact, however, is that the fees in Cook county remain as they were before the war, while in all the other counties the fees have been raised. It may be true, that the fees in that county are, as claimed, too high, but let us see whether, what the gentleman [Mr. Coolbaugh] asks us to do is in behalf of taxpayers. He asks in behalf of Cook county, that it shall have an advantage over every county in the State. Before there is any opportunity to reduce the fees, by the action of the General Assembly, he asks that this Convention shall vote these fees into the county treasury of Cook county. Now, is that fair? Is that just, when we take into consideration that Chicago is the great commercial center of the northwest, and that the people having business there in the courts, reside in all parts of the State? Is it fair to take fees paid by members of every business community in the State, and put them in the Cook county treasury? Gentlemen mayask-who is to have them, if they do not get them? I answer, the men who do the work for which they are paid. Which is better-that they should retain them, or that they should be paid by people living in all parts of the State, into the Cook county treasury? It is laying the State under tribute to Cook county. I think it is askinrg too much, after we have given them everything they have asked- a term of the supreme court, a change in the method of electing justices of' the peace, a county board different from the other counties, a judge for every thirty-five thousand inhabitants, when in the r)ther parts of the State, no matter how great the need, one judge can only be had for one hundred thousand inhabitants, to ask that the fees collected from citizens of every other county in the State, as well as their own citizens, should be paid into the treasury of Cook county. That, too, when the rest of the counties are compelled to wait until the terms of the preseat incumbents of office shall have expired before they have the benefit of this provision. Mr. COOLBAUGH. Where do the fees go now?c Mr. CODY. To the men who do the work for which the fees are paid. Mr. COOLBAUGH. Will the people be any more wronged by permitting these fees to go into the public county treasury than now, by putting them into the pockets of office-holders? Mr. COD f. I do not see that the question is particularly pertinent. What I have stated is, that it is compelling every man in this State, who has a lawsuitin Cook county, a record, a deed there, to help support its local government. According to your statement we would pay into your county treasury at least two hundred thousand dollars a year, when no other county has the same advantage..e dMr. HAYES. Mr. President: I have heard this assumpticn before, that all the fees collected in Cook county come out of the other people of the State, while all fees collected in every other county come out of the people of that county-r Gamble, Scholfield, Haines of C'k, Sherrill, Hankins, Snyder, Harwood, Tincher, Hay, Tubbs, Hayes, Underwood, McDowell, Vandeventer, Moore, Wall, Perley, Washburn, Peirce, Whiting-37. Allen of Cr'fd.,Eldredge, Skinner, Bromwell, Haines of L'k, Springer, Brown, Hanna, Truesdale, Bryan, McCoy, Wilson, Buxton, Medill, Wright Cameron, Neece, Mr. President-20. Dement, Pillsbury, So the motion of Mr. Turner to lay on the table the amendment offered by Mr. Coolbaugh, to section forty-two, was not agreed to. Mr. HAINES, of Cook. Mr. President: When the gentleman from Stephenson [Mr. Tarnier] maide the motion to lay the amendment upon the table, I said I thought it was quite unkind of him to do so, since he had accused the Cook county delegation of trying to cut down the fees of the circuit clerk and not those of the other officers. It is a fact that our people have complained for the last ten years of'the salaries which our county officers have received. They have tried to remedy the evil in the Legislature, but unfbrtunately our members, when they came down here, were in the hands of these officers, and we could do nothing. I must say that it looks to me very much as though the gentleman does not look upon this exactly from the disinterested standpoint that he ought. Now, sir, he says that this matter interests every body in the State; that everybody goes up to Chicago to record deeds, as suitors, as plaintiffs and defendants. Then there is the greater need to have the fees reduced. And if Cook county is to receive the fees, and if the gentleman objects on the ground of the amount of them, he has had a new revelation since dinner-for he was before of the opinion that they were not so very great. But if Cook county is to receive the fees, why not pay them into the county treasury, as well as allow one man or four men to secure them when they amount in the gross to not less than $250,000 a year. When a delegate undertakes to assert that our people have not complained for ten years, he asserts what he does not know. The fees of those officers should be paid into the county treasury. They should be under a proper supervision, and when gentlemen vote to deny us the right we claim, they are doing us a wrong which I know they would not like to have done to their constituents nor to themselves. M~r. CODYr. MIr. President: An appeal has been muade to this Convention in behalf of the taxpayers of Cook county' to adopt this provision introduced by the gentleman from Coolk [Mr. Coolbangh]. Now, it is probable that the taxmpayers of Cook county would be somewhat benefited by this arrangement; but the people who require the work which is done by the officers, would not be benefited in the least. The recording would cost no less but be done as befbre. 1'ow, it is admitted upon all hands that the fees of county officers throughcut the State, at the prese~ time, are e x CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION 1492 TuF,SDA.Y, Mr. CODY. I did not so state. I said that fees paid into Cook county come from citizens of every other county almost in the State-probably every one. Mr. HA YES. The gentleman assumed that they came from the whole State. If he had said that they came in the proportion Of One to one thousand out of the ,pieople of other counties, and about one thousand to one out of the people of Cook county, he would probably have been correct; and of even this small propor. tion of fees received from people not re'IdiDg in Cook county, the greater part are from those owning property there, which is taxed for the expenses of the local government. If you, sir, in Crawford, county purchase a piece of land in Cook county and send a deed there to be recorded, your land becomes subject to the taxes and the expenses of the government of that county, and the fee taken from you, if paid into the county treasury, helps t-) defray the expenses of the county government, and relieves you, to that extent, from taxation on your property. Now, I venture to say that this argument of the gentleman, specious a-, it is, is a mere pretext; that the true object is to protect one sidgle man in the enormous gains of his office, which ought to be cut down, and which every man on this floor knows ought to be cut down. It is assumed by gentlemen in their arguments here that those -%,ho favor cuttidg down the emoluments of the circuit clerk wish to do some irj ustice, that they are making an assault upon the clerk of the circuit court, that they have all united to hunt down the incumbent of that offlce. Now, there never was an intimation that was more incorrect, at least as far as I am concerned. I have not the slightest feelidg of hostility towards the gentleman referred to. I would 1-ot take away from him one siingle dollar that he is entitled to. But I would not raise him to a position superior to that of every other man in the State of Illinois.. I would not put him above the Governor of the State, the Auditor of the State, and the different officials of tlle different counties of the State, and declare that nothing sball be done to inte-fere with him until he gelig out of office. In all other counties we change the Anderson,, Anthony, Archer, Bowman, Browning, Cary, Cootbaugh, Craig, Cummings, Ellis, Forman, A.BSENT OR NOT VOTING. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. and $50,000, per year. I am sure that with the forms now in use, the office can be conducted for $10,000 a year-$15,000 at the outside,-and I believe that from the recorder's office alone he gets a net compensation at the present time of over $30,000 per annum. Then his fees as clerk of the court must yield a net income of at least $10,000 more. The clerks have from time to time got their fees increased by the General Assembly. By the operation of a law passed here two or three years ago, the clerk is allowed to charge a continuance fee, I think of fifty cents each term in every cause passed to the next term, amounting to thousands of dollars per annum, where no labor is performed. The other fees in the aggregate amount to a very large sum. I think it cannot be disputed that the gross receipts of this officer amount to fully $80,000 a year, and that his net receipts amount to between $30,000 and $40,000-perhaps quit,e $40,000. I wish to know, sir, why the people of the county of Cook should not be permitted to have a reduction of this enormous accumulation of money in the hands of a single office-holder-money derived from their earnings-when gentlemen are willing that other office-holders holding higher cffices should submit to a reduction of their pay. But it is said that it is unkind and unfair to turn this gentleman out of office. We do not turn him out of office. We do not propose to expel him from his office of clerk. We propose, simply, to relieve him of some of his duties, and pay him as an officer,,ill that any other officer in the county receives, during his term of office. I recollect, very well, in the Constitution of 1847 a provision was adopted, that turned the Governor out of office, turned out all the State officers, turnei the supreme court out, and all the circuit judges; and my friend. from Pike [Mr. Archer], who has been voting against us in this, voted, I believe, for the proposition turning them all out. Nobody pretended the State had not the power, had not the right to do it. We do not ask to turn this officer out. We simply ask that the gentleman shall be subjected to the Constitution of this State, and submit to a reduction of his pay during his ternm of office. That we have a right to ask, and I hope that the proposition of my colleague [Mr. Coolbaugh], which w ill cause this reduction to take immediate effect, will be adopted. If it is thought wrong that these fees should go to the county of Cook, I, for one, am very willing they should be simply reduced, but I do not wish that they should go into the hands of the officeholders. q hey do not go to the men who perform: the work, as contended by some gentlemen. I venture to say this gentleman has not recorded a deed himself during his term of officee, while there are a great many poor mern and poor women employed in his office, at a few dollars a w~eek, who are doing this work; this gentlemlan receives thirty or forty thousand dollars a year, while they are receiving a mere pittance. If the fees are to be paid to anybody, I prefer they should go into the county treasury, and be paid to the poor men and girls recording the deeds, after allowing a fair salary to the incumbent of the office. * $74 Mr. GOODHUE. Mr. President: I am opposed to the! amendment of the gentleman from Cook [Mr. Coolbaugh]. I am opposed to making distinctions anywhere between officers in the various portions of this State. We have already traveled as far as I propose to travel in mnaking distinctions in behalf of Cook county. I do not deny,as a matter of course, the legal right and authority of this ConventioDn;to legislate out of office every clerk and every sheriff, and every single officer in the State, from the highest to the lowest. I do not deny the right of this Constitutional Convention to reduce the fees of every officer now in office, from one end of the State to the other, but I do deny the policy and wisdom of doing so, and in denying that I am assuming the position which every gentleman upon this floor, almost, has assumed, from the organization of the Convention down to the present hour. Why is it that we have constantly refused to legislate men out of office? Why is it that we have constantly refused to touch one single officer in the State, down to the present time, or interfere with the pay that any officer receives under the, Constitution or under the laws of this Sta'e? Was it because the right to do so was not fully and thoroughly conceded? Not by any means. It was for the simple purpose of avoiding hostility against the Constitution of this State. That was the main object. Another reason was that men in various portions of the State elected for a c erta in term, and elected for the purpose of performing and discharging certain duties, at a specified salary, or for costs and fees established by law, ought not to be affected by our action, until their terms of office expire. Mr. President, there was a motion made here to-day, having express reference to the circuit clerk of Cook county. The gentleman who offered that amendument directed it simply to the circuit clerk of that county. He did not strike a blow at any of these "reformers," or gentlemen inducted into office in Cook county, upon the plea of reducing the ex penses of that county, or relieving the burdens of taxation upon any of the people of Cook county. The anxiety was to involve us in local disputes and personal animosities, that had their ori gin in Cook county and Cook county politics, and which to-day are being perpetuated in this Constitutional Conventlon. For one, I know nothing about the merits of these officers, but one thing I do know, and that is that I do not propose to be influenced ia my vote, or in what I may say, because gentlemen from Cook county may be anxious to strike a kb low at one individual officer. I assert, further, that so anxious were t he se gentlemen to get at one man, and a practically, remove him, that they felt themselves, under the pressure of circumstances, a pressure indicated by a very large vote against the substitute offered by the gentleman from Cook [Mr. An o thony], compelled to embrace all these officers, and put them all on the same footing, for the purpose of gratifying their feelings against one man. Mr. ANTIHONY. Mr President: The gentleman labors under a great mistake. He will find it all provided for. Mr. GOODHUE. Why, then, Mr. President, does he ask us to support the amendment of the gentleman fro-D Cook [Mr. Coolbaugh], if its objects are already provided for? I have one more suggestion to make, and that is this: We desire to avoid all hostility against the Constitution of this State. We shalt be exceedi_ngly embarrassed, I think, if we adopt this clause in this Constitution. While we will incur the animosity of all those gentlemen who voted the stra;ight republican ticket last fall, on the other hand we incur the opposition of all those gentlemen who, at the same time, combined and succeeded in their so-called reformatory measures. Hence, we will have the whole city of Chicago and Cook county fighting against the adoption of this Constitution. Now, I know that the feeling against one man must be very strong, when gentlemen can offer such amendments as reach not him, simply, but those gentlemen in Chicago, elected upon this reform ticket, under solemn promises that a small portion of their feesshould be retained for themselves and the balance should go into the treasury of Cook county. These reform officers are all conscientious men, and have conscientious as well as constitutional scruples upon which they refuse to relinquish a single dollar that the law gave them. I insist, that in adopting this amendment we are adopting something which is devised for the purpose of having a personal effect; and in my judgment it will have a serious effect upon the adoption of this Constitution, because it cannot be defended upon principle, unless we make that principle applicable to every county in the State. Mr. PEIRCE. I move the previous question. The motion for the previous question was agreed to, and the main question or. dered. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The question is on the adoption of the amendment of the gentleman from Cook [gr. Coolbaugh] to section forty-two. The yeas and nays were ordered. The Secretary proceeded to call the roll. Mgr. BROWNING (when his name was called) said: By permission of the Convention, I wishl to say a few words in exrplanatioln of the vote I shall give. I have felt some embarrassment about it. If we adopt the amendment it cannot be self-executing, and will lead to a great deal of confusion. The section already adopted provides that the clerks of record, etc., shall receive for their services salaries to be fixed by law, and then the latter part of it provides that — All fees, perquisites and emoluments of every kind incident to litigation in said courts shall be collected in such manner as shall be provided by law, and paid into the treasury of said county. The salaries have not yet been fixed, and if we adopt the amendment, it will leave these officerss without any compensation at all, until the Legislature can act upon the subject. I voted against laying the amendment on the table with the view of calling the attention of the gentleman from Cook [MIr. Coolbaugh] to at, that it might be amended so as to be brought in harmony with the provisions of the Constitution. -The previous question was called and ordered,- and the opportuneity-of amendment thus cat off. t APRIL 26) 1870. 1493 1494 ()OXSTITUTIO~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~AL COXVENITIO~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~i TUESDAY,~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The motion of Mr. Hay to postpone section forty-two, was agreed to. Mr. HAY. Mr. President: In this connection, I make a motion to reconsider the vote on section forty-one, so that teat section also may be postponed and re ferred. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The motion will be entered-or is it the design to have it acted upon immedi ately? Mr. HAY. Mr. President: Ihope this will be acted upon at once, as the Com mittee on Revision wish to get at the sub ject right away. Mr. CODY. MIr. President: The arti cle on counties, as passed by the Commit tee of the Whole, has precisely the pro vision adopted here, and there is no need of acting upon this section now. The question may be postponed until the arti cle on counties is considered. When I offered my amendment, I said I offered it with the view that it might b e incorporated into the article on coun ties. Mr. HAY. The proper place for this, Mr. President, would be in the article on counties. The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The question is, shall the Convention recon sider the vote by which section forty-one was adopted? Mr. CUMMINGS. Mr. President: I move to lay the motion to reconsider on the table, and on that demand the previ ous question. The PRESIDENT pro tempore. There is no need to move the previous ques tion. The motion of Mr. Cummings to lay on the table the motion of Mr. Hay to re consider the vote by which section forty one was adopted, was not agreed to. The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The question recurs upon the motion to recon sider. Mr. CHURCH. Mr. President: I would suggest that the object might be met by postponing the question to reconsider, un til we consider the report of the commit tee on counties. I move, therefore, to postpone the mo tion to reconsider. Mr. HAYES. Mr. President: I believe the effect of that motion, if adopted, would be to keep the judiciary a rticle in Convention, until after we get through with the article on counties. The Committee on Revision are hold ing nightly meetings, and I hope we may act at once, that the committee may have the article. c EMr. HAY. Mr. President: I would suggest to the gentleman from Cook [Mr. Hayes], that it is already understood that this will be placed in the article on coun ties. uMr. HAYES. That is what I under stand, and I am in favor of the proposi tion of the gentleman from Sangamon [Mr.. Hay]. We have the statement of the gentleman from Du Page [Mr. Cody] that this is a proper disposition of it. I see no r ea son for the motion of the gentleman from iMcHenry [Mr. Church]. M.et UNDERWOOD. Mr. President: It is very desirable that the Committee on Revision and Adjustment should be enabled to finish up the article as soeon as possible. If this is postponed it may delay the judiciary article. I do not see t rwhy we cannot dispose of it now. This I am, therefore, constrained to vote ttNo." Mr. ANTHONY. You read from the original section,but it has been changed [IsQuestion," "Question."] Mr. ANTHON Y. The gentleman is mistaken. Mr. McCOY, (when his name was call ed) said: Mr. President: I wish to say a word or two in regard to this matter. I had desired to speak on this subject, but could not do so by reason of the previous question having been moved. We had this subject under consideration in the Committee of the Whole, an,! determined that we would not prohibit the Legislature from decreasing the salaries, and ["Question," "Question."] Mr. McCOY. Therefore, I vote "Aye." The result was then announced-yeas, 21, nays, 39-as follows: YEAS. Allen of Alex.,Fuller, Ross, Anderson,. Haines of Cook, Scholfield, Anthony, Harwood, Tubbs, Bowman, Hayes, Vandeventer, Coolbaugh, M cCoy, Wall, Ellis, Perley, Whitini, Fox, Rice, Mr. President-21. NAYS. Gamble, Goodell, Goodhue, IHart, Hay, Hildrup, McDowell, Merriam, Parker, Peirce, Poage, Robinson, Sedgwick, Sharp, Sherrill, Snyder, Sutherland, Tincher, Turner, Underwood, Wagner, Wait, Washburn, Wells, Wendling, Wheaton-39. ABSENT, OR NOT VOTING. Allen of Crfd.,Eldredge, Parks, Archer, Haines of Lake,Pillsbury, Bromwell, Hankins, Skinner, Brown, H anna, Springer, Bryan, King, ~ Truesdale, Buxton, Medill, Wilson, Cameron, Moore, Wright-23. Craig, Neece, So the amendment offered by Mr. Coolbaugh to section forty-tvo, was not agreed to. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The question recurs upon section forty-two. Mr. HAY. Mr. Pres,ident. I have been much embarrassed with reference to this section, ancd also with reference to section forty-one, in considering theta in connection with the article upon counties. I desire to preserve some consistency in our action, although I have always been willing to make Cook county exceptional so far as that could be done consistently and in harmony with the article upon counties. I would like to have those two sections considered together, and at the same time that the article upon counties is considered, so that the subject may be before us, in all its bearings, at the same time. I would, therefore, move, if in order, that the Convention reconsider section forty-one, and that that section, with section forty-two, be laid upon the table, and be considered at the same time the article upon counties is acted upon. Mr. TURNER. Mr. President: Let this be referred, and passed over. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The question is upon postponing the consider, ation of section fbrty-two, until the Convention shall consider the article on county officers. - matter simply relates to fees, and can be put in the article on coun ties. We canre o strike out sections forty- one and forty-two now-they are but local legis lation-and hereafter insert them in the county article. Mr. CARY. I do not see how post poning will affect the Committee on Revis. ion at all. Mr. SNYDER. The Committee on Revision and Adjustment cannot touch tbis article until this motion is disposed of. The article has not been adopted, and will not be in the hands of the committee. The whole article will remain here. Mir. CARY. It can all be referred to that committee except those sections which it is conceded do not belong here any way. I see no harm in postpon ing. The question being on the motion of Mr. Church, to postpone the motion to reconsider, it was not agreed to. Mr. TURNER. If it can be under stood that both these sections, forty-one and forty-two, can be referred to the Committee on Counties, where they prop erly belong, and be taken upwith that article, I think there will be no objection to reconsidering. The motion to reconsider the vote adopting section forty-one was agreed to. The question being on the adoption of section ibrty-one Mr. UNDERWOOD. I move that section forty-one be stricken out. The motion was agreed to. Mr. HAY. I move that section forty. two be stricken out. The motion was agreed to. The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The 'question is on the adoption of section forty-three. The Secretary read section forty-three, as follows: SEc. 43. All judicial officers shall be com missioned by the Governor. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The section is declared adopted. The ques tion is upon she adoption of section forty four. The Secretary read section forty-four, as follows: S-Ec. 44. All laws relating to courts shall be general, and of uniform operation; and the organization, jurisdiction, powers, proceed ing~s and practice of all courts, of the samne class or grade, so ftar as regulated by law, and the force and effect of the process, jndgments and decrees of such courts} severally, shall be uniform. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The section is declared adopted. The question is upon the adoption of section forty-fivre. The Secretary read section forty-five, as follows: SEC. 45. The General Assembly may, for cause entered on the journals, upon due notice and opportunity of defense, remove from office any judge, upon concurrence of three-fourths of all the member s elected, of each house. All other officers in this article mentioned shall be removed frome office, on indictment and final conviction for misdemeanor in office. ~The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The section is declared adopted. The question is on tho adoption of section forty-six. The Secretary read section forty-Ssi, as follows: SE.C. 40. All judges of cou~?t of record, inferiorltothe sulpremne court, hall, on or bee fore the first day of June, of each year, report~ CONSTITUTIONAL CON'VENTIOIN. Tur, SD.&YI 1494 Abbott, Atkins' Bayne, Benjamin, Browning, Clkry, ChIurch, Cody, Cross, Cummings, Dernent, EDglish, Forman, DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. y The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The d amendment is not in order, as it is an n amendment to an amendment made in r- Committee of the Whole, which was cone curref in by the Co nvention. Mr. TINCHER. I prop ose the n to ine troduce an additio na l sect ion. Section forty-nine was agreed to. t Mr. HAYES. Mr. President: There is a section s till undispohd of, which was int roduced be the gentleman from Kane e [,Mr. Wheaton]. e ir. WHEATON. I call for the re ad in~g of the section submitted by myself. The Sec retary read the section offered e by Mr. Wheaton, as follows: lSECTION-. The Legislature shall provide for s ubmitting to the electors of the State a t , the judicial election in June, A. D. 1873, two questions, to be voted on separate ballots, as follows: - First —"Shall the offices of judges of the supreme court be hereafter filltd by appoint ment?" If a majority of the votes upon the ques tion shall be in the affirmative, the said offi ces shall not thereafter be elective, but as vacanies occur, they shall be filled by the Gov ernor, by and with the a dvice and consent of lthe s enate, or if the senate be not in session, by the Governor; but in such case heh shal l 3 nominate to the senate when next convened, and such appointment by theGovernor alon e shall expire at the end of that session. i Second-"Shall the offices of the judges of the circuit courts be hereafter filled by apL pointment?" - If a majority of the votes upon the question shall be in the affirmative, the said offices shall not thereafter be elective, but as vacan cies occur, they shall be filled in the manner in this section above provided. The Legislature may provide for submitting to the electors of the State, at the same elec tion, these further questions: First- "Shall the judges of the supreme court hold their offices during life or good be havior?" If a majority of votes upon the question first mentioned iD this section shall be in the affirmative, and also a majority of the votes upon this question shall be in the affir mative, the judges of the supreme court there. alter appointed shall hold their offices during life or good behavior. Scond-"Shall the judges of the circuit courts hold their offices during life or good behavior?"' If a majority of the votes upon the ques tion secondly in this section mentioned shall be in the affirmative, and also a majority of the votes upon this question shall be in the affirmative, the judges of the circuit courts thereafter appointed shall hold their offices during life or good behavior. Mir. WHEATON. Mr. President: I !do not know that this section will comu'mand a single vote upon this floor, exccept may own. I have not talked with any member as to wvheth~er he was in favor of' this provision or against it. I do not know as there is any member who is in favor of it. I am, myself, very strongly in favor of the system of the creation of judges by appointment rather than election. Ever since I have been a practitioner at the bar, it has commnended itself to my judgment. Upon that, I have introduced this proposition. i believe, sir, that the glory and ornament of any State is the index ipendeuce of its judiciarv —that the judge who administers upon the property and the lives of the people, should be as far removed from partisan questions, conflict and feeling as p~ossible. In the State in which I studied lawr and practiced some four or five years, the system of the creation of j udges wtas by appointment. I have lived in thils State isomething over fifteen years, and praco Iticed at the bar, Bulring all that thtme, in writing to the judges of the supreme court such defects and omissions in the laws at their experience may suggest; and the judge~ of the supreme court shall, on or before the first day of January, of each year, report it writing, to the Governor (to be by him com municated to the General Assembly), such de fects and omissions in the Constitution and laws as they may find to exist, together with appropriate forms of bills to cure such de fects and omissions in the laws. And the judges of the several circuit courts shall re port to the next General Assembly the num ber of days they have held courts in the sev eral counties comprising their respective cir cuits the preceding two years. Mr. ARCHER. Mr. President; I move to amend the section by addig, after the word "laws," in the eighth line, the words "but no fees or compensation shall be allowed said judges for such service." Mr. UNDERWOOD. Mr. President: I would remind the gentleman that there is a provision for that in section sixteen And from and after the adoption of this Constitution, no judge of the supreme or circuit court shall receive any other compen sation, perquisite or benefit in any form what soever, nor perform any other additional ju dicial duties to which may belong any emolu ments. Mr. ARCHER. Mr. President: That may possibly cover the case, but I see no objection to the incorporation of the amendment into this section. It can do no harm, and it will remove all manner of doubt in regard to the matter. The amendment offered by Mr. Archer was not agreed to. Mr. ROSS. Mr. President: It occurs to me that section forty-six is all special legislation, and rather inferior legislation at that. I move, therefore, that the section be stricken out. Mr. UNDERWOOD. Mr. President: I sincerely hope that that will not be done. It will be seen that this is a provision to enable the Legislature to get all the light possible in reference to the defects of the statutes. The circuit judges have better opportunities for discovering defects than anybody else. The Governor is required to report any defects that he may find, but he has no special opportunities for discovering them. The circuit j udges if they do their duty may be of great value in perfecting the law. This has always been their duty with regard to the criminal law. The other feature requires the judges to report to the Legislature the number of cases tried, so that they can equalize the circuits according to the amount of business. Both of these features are very valuable. Mr. ROSS. M~r. President: I would suggest to the gentleman whether the provision could not be made by an act of the Legislature, as well as by the Consition? M~r. UNDERWOOD. It could be done by act of the Legislature. But, sir, all the Constitutions of the United States have required the executive to communicate to the General Assembly such recom. mendatio~ns in regard to the laws as he might think proper. But, though the judicial department could be much more useful in this respect, for reasons incom;prehensible they have not by constitutions been required to report such defects. This provision will be very useful if the judges do their duty. We would thus be enabled to make our laws plain,for judges like to have the laws plain after they gelton the bench, however i~ , triecate the y may desire them when the are off the bench. We will be enable to abbreviate and simplify the law,and i f ifteen year s we will have the most peo * feet laws u e s an d rules of judicial proceLur in America. The PRESIDENT pro tempore. Th question is upon the m otion of the gentle man from Fulton [Mr. Ross], to strike ou the section. The motion was no t agreed to. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. Th question is upon the adoption of th forty sixth section. Section forty-six was agreed to. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. Th question is upon the forty-seventh see tion. The Secretary read section forty-seven as follows: SEC. 47. All officers provided for in this ar ticle shall hold their o ffices until their sue cessors shall be qualified, and shall, respect ively, reside in the division, circuit, county or district, for which they may be elected or ap pointed. The terms of office of all such officers where not otherwise prescribed in this article shall be four years. And all who may be ir offi ce at the adoption of this Constitution shall continue to held their offices until th" expiration of he te s or h the termsforwhich they were respectively elected, except a s herein o ther wi s e p rovided. All officers, where not o ther wise pr ovided for i n th is article, shall perforn such duties and receive such compensation as is or may be provided by law. V acanc ie s it such elective officees shall be filled by elec tion;but where the unexpired term does not exceed one year, the vacancy shall be fill ed by appointment, as follows: Of judges. by the Governor; of clerks of courts, by the court to whic h the office appertains, or by the judge or judges thereof; and of all such other offices, by the board of supervisors or board of county commissioners,in the county where the vacancy occurs. Mr. TURNER. Mr. President: I move to strike out of the seventh line the words, "except as herein otherwise provided." It is a fact that there is not a single office otherwise provided for. The motion of Mr. Turner was not agreed to. Section forty seven was agreed to. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The question is on the adoption of the fortyeighth section. The Secretary read section forty-eight, as follows: SEac. 48. All process shall run, In the name of Th2e People of the State of Illinois,; and all prosecutions shall be carried on In the name and by the authority of The people of the State of Illinois, and conclude Against the peace and digqnitu of the same. All laws providing compensation, by fees, to ministerial or other officers, provided for in this article, shall, as to each class of said officers, be general and uniform throughout the State. "Population," wherever used in this article, shall be determined by the next preceding census of this State or of the United States. Section forty-eight was agreed to. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The question is upon the adoption of the fortyninth section. The Secretary read section forty-nine, as follows: Sie. 49. The term of office of judges of the supreme court, elected after the adoption of this Constitution shall be nine years, and on the first Monday of June of the year in which the term of tany of the judges in office at the adoption of this Constitution or of the judges then elected shall expire, and every nine years thereafter, there shall be an election for the successor or successors of such judges, in the respective districts wherein the term of such judges shall expire. fMr.- TINCHER. I move to insert "seven" where the word "nine" occurs. t i APRIL 26, 1870. 1495 14G(1-TTTOA OY~I~TEDY State of New York but a short year ago. I have said more than I intended. I intended simply to submit the section, without any particular remarks on my part, to the consideration of the Con vention. Mr. MERRIAM. I move the previous question. Mr. ANTHONY. I would ask the gentleman to withdraw. I wish to make a suggestion. Mr. MERRIAM. I will, if you again move the previous question. Mr. ANTHONY. It seems to me that this section can be greatly shortened. I am in favor of the proposition myself, but I wish to suggest to the gentleman fromf Kane [Mvr. Wheaton], that if he desires a vote to be taken in the State, with regard to the election or appointment of judges, it could be accomplished by striking out in the first paragraph, so that it would read-"shall the offices of judges be hereafter filled by appointment." Mr. WHEATON. The reason why I did not do that is that the people may desire their supreme judges to be chosen by appointment, but might not desire their circuit judges to be chosen in that way. Therefore, I desired to submit both separately. Mr. ANTHONY. I am in favor of the a ppointment of all judges, down to justices of the peace; therefore, I am in favor of reducing it all down to half a dozen lines. The motion for tte previous question was agreed to, and the main question ordered. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the adoption of the additional section, reported by the gentleman front Kane [Mr. Wheaton]. The yeas and nays were ordered, and being taken, resulted-yeas, 12; nays, 52 -as follows: the system has been the elec ti ve system. I, therefore, have seen the working of the two systems. Every year that I have practiced at the ba r in this State, the conviction has forced itself more strongly upon my mind, that the system of appointing judges, is far superior to thb elective system. Such has been the, system that has prevailed in the fed.eral courts fromn the time of the creation of our gov ernmelt down to the present d ay. Such h as been the system in most of the older States of the union. Since the adoption of the last Constitution, we have had in this State the elective system. How well it has worked, or how poorly it has worked, is within the knowledge and experience of every member on this floor. I know that a great deal will be saidand I might say, a great deal of "buncombe" exploded-in behalf of the right of the pe-)ple to select their own officers. But, sir, it is not in one case out of a hun dred that the people select their own officers. It is a party caucus, a party convention, or politicians, that select the officers for the people; and it is because the creation of i udzes is stibj ected to the dictation of party caucuses, party conventions, and politicians, and the oft-recurringy election once in six, nine or twelve years, as the ca:se mayr be, that the elective systemnof judges is an objectionable feature in thecreation of the judiciarly. I donot intend to offer any extended remarks on this question. I commend the section to the judgment and good sense, and consideration of this convenltion. So far as I am individually concer-ned, Ishould be in favor of putting an absolute provision in the Constitut,ion, that j udges hereafter should not be elected, but appointed, but I do not believe that the members of this C(;nvention are yet prepared for that, anld so I have submitted a provision that the Legislature shall, at a given day, submit the questions to the people. I have put 1873, because it is the time when the present judges of the circuit court will go out of office, and'when one of the judges of the- supreme court goes out of office —but I am not particular as to time. I have fixed ill this provision a given time within which, if it has the iendorsement of this Convention, the Legislature shall submit this question to the people, to de tion of section forty-eight, with a view of movingo to strike out a couple of lines of that section. I will read what I desire to have stricken out: All laws prov iding compen sation, by fees, to ministerialr or ther olbcers, p rovided for in th is article, shall as t o each class of said officer,;, be general and uniform throughout the S tat e. No w, that would interfere with the principle we propose to incorporate in the article upon counties, which grade these fees according to the population of counties. I move to reconsider, to strike that out of this section. The PRESIDENT. The m~otion to refer the j udiciary article to the, Committee on Revision and Adjustment is withdrawn. The gentleman from Sangamon [Mr. Hay] moves to reconsider the action by which, the Convention adopted sectioa forty- eight. The motion of Mr. Hay, to reconsider the vote b~y which section forty-eight was adopted, was agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon thle amendment proposed by the gentleman from Sangamon [filr. Hay], to strike out in the fortyr-eiglith section, froml the beginning of the fourth line to the word "State," in the sixth line. The amendment offered by.WMr. HEay was agreed to. The PRESIDENT:. The question is upon the adoption of the section as amended, and it will be declared adopted. .lar. TINCH:ER. Mr. President: I desire to introduce atn additional section -two of them, in fact. The Secretary read the additional sections offered by Mr. Tincher, as follows: SEC. -. The General Assembly, at its first session after the adoption of this Constitution, shall provide for the appointment of three commissioners, whose duty it shall be to revise, simplify and abridge the rules of practice, pleadings and forms of the courts of justice,; and ahey shall provide for abolishing the'distinct forms of action at law now in use, and that j ustice shall be administered in a uniform mode of pleadings, without distinction between law and equity. And the General Assembly shall also make it the duty of said commisssioners to reduce into a systematic code, the general statute law of the State, and -aidscommissioners shall report the result of their labors to the General Assembly, with such recommendations YEA.S. Anthony, Haines of Cook,Wall, Browning, Hay, Wells, Cody, Hayes, Wendling, Craig, Turner, Wheaton-12. NA.YS. Abbott, Goodell, Ross, Allen, of Alex. Goodhue, Scholfield, Anderson, Hankins, Sedgwick, Archer, Hart, Sharp, Atkins, Harwood, Sherrill, Bayne, Hildrup, Snyder, Benjamin, King, Springer, Cary, Mc(oy, Sutherland, Chur-ch, McDowell, Tincher, Coolbaugh, Merriam, Tubbs Cross, Moore, Underswood, Cummings, Parker, Vandeventer c Dement, Parks, Wagner, iEllis Perley, Wait, English, Poage, Washburn, Forman, Rice, Whiting, Fox, Robinson, Wilson-52. F~uller, in whic I liv, amongwhom, nowingA.BSENT, OR NOT VOTING.onththsbeunecosdrtoan Allen of Crfd., Eldredge, Peire,m Bowman, Gamble, Pillsbury, Bromwell, Haines of Lake,Skinnuer, Brown, Hanna, Truesdale, Bryan, Medill, Wri glht Buxton, Neree Mr. President-19. uCameron, t So the additional section offered by Mr. Wheaton, was notagreed to. nMr. SCHOLFIELD. Mr-. President: I now move that the judiciary article be referred to the Committee upon Revision and Adjustment. Mr. HAY. Mr. President: I hope the entleman will withdraw his motion for moment. I wish to move a reconsidersa 1496 CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION TUESDAY, APRIL 26, 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1497 erdtefc htorcut r ulo enpeaigabl hr a a fterlbr oteGnrlAsebl,wt been preparing a bill where a man had his little house burned, and that he had written fifty pages of legal cap to set up the facts in regard to the debt that an insurance company owed his client because his house but ned. Now, is it not enough to set up simply the fact in simple and plain language? I want to take the bur den off your backs, gentlemen-you lawyears, I mean. You are like a sick man; the doctor comes with his nostrums, and says that, no matter how bad the dose tastes, you must swallow it and you will feel better. And I claim, gentlemen, that if you will take my dose, it will save you from an immense amount of labor, and you will be glad that I compelled you to take it [laughter] when you feel the effects of it, as lawyers in New York and Indiana have. They are already proud of their practice there. ["Mis. souri"]. I do not know so well about Missouri. I doubt whether there is anything there to be proud of. [Laughter ] I met a gentleman the other day, from Buffalo-whom our honorable doorkeep er [Mr. Lothrop] will well remember. The doorkeeper and myself were having a discussion about this matter of the code practice, when, a Buffalo lawyer came to the rescue and said, that he disliked verv much to take the naseous dose, when it was adopted in the Constitution of New York, but that now he regarded it as the best practice. He said that it did facilitate business in their courts, that, thereby, their tribunals were kept free and clear of business, and that a man could get speedy justice. dhNow,' gentlemen of the Convention, thi s will be a very acceptable thing to the people of the State of Illinois. You may say that nobody but the legal fraternity knows anything about the practice of the law [Here the hammer fell.] ["Go on," "go on."] Mr. TINCHER. One word, only, I want to say. The people may not know all about the practice of the law, but they understand common sense, know the time consumed by and expense of the present system, want it brought down to a common sense practice, and will get it sooner or later. Mr. WELLS. Mr. President: I believe that nothing more can be said in favor of the proposition of the gentleman. I think he has exhausted it; and as nobody wants to say anything against it, I move the previous question. The motion for the previous question was agreed to, and the main question ordered. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the adoption of the sections offered by the gentleman from Vermilion [Mr. Tincher]. ["Read."] The Secretary read the sections offered by Mr. Tincher, as follows: Swc. a-. The General Assembly, at its first session after the adoption of this Constitution, shall provide for the appointment of three commissioners, whose duty it shall be to revise, simplify and abridge the rules, practice, pleadings and forms of the courts of justice, and they shall provide for abolishing the distinct forms of action at law now in use, and that justice shall be administered in a uniform mode of pleadings, without distinction between law and equity. And the General Assembly shall also make it the duty of said commissioners to reduce into a systematic code the general statute law of the State, and said commissioners shall report the result of their labors to the General Assembly, with such recommendations and suggestions as to abridgement and amendments,as the said commissioners may deem necessary or proper. Provision shall be made by law for filling vacancies, regulating the tenure of office, and compensation of said commissioners. Snc. -. Every person of good moral character, being a voter, shall be entitled to admission to practice law in all courts of jus,tice. Mr. ROSS. Mr. President: I would suggest to the gentleman from Vermiliof [Mr. Tincher], that the Legislature have already appointed such a commission. Mr. T,NCHER. That was for another purpose. This prescribes the duty of the commissioners. The yeas and nays were ordered, and, being taken, resulted-yeas, 32, nays, 35 -as follows: ered the fact that our courts are full of business, and that a large part of it grows out of technicalities and special pleadings, which consume time. The courts are full of special and technical pleadings. We find the courts of New York, Ohio, Indiana, Iowa, Missouri, and in fact nearly all the States around us have adopted a simpler form of practice than we have, and in fact one more fully adapted to the genius of our government. Gentlemen spoke of our grand jury system as being a relic of the star chamber and of the modes and practices of a different age. I claim there is no one thing to-day in our courts of more antiquity than the present forms of special pleading. It is not uncommon that a case is brought into court by what is called a good lawyer, who cannot for the life of him discrimitiate what sort of action he ought to briiig- whether trespass, trespass on the case, or debt, or assumpsit. I can see no reason why these old distinctions should be perpetuated and kept up in our courts. Possibly gentlemen in the practice can see the reason why the beauties and logic of special pleading should be kept up in every court in the State, and even extended down to the justices' courts, if they could find justices who comprehend their particular phraseology and meaning. Now, I have no war, no quarrel with lawyers, but I do claim that they ought to come down to what is reasonable in the practice. The law is the only professl()D in this country that is environed around by legal protection. Take the man who has your life in his hand a doctor-and whether he has a diploma or not, you have a right to employ him to do your doctoring, and there is no law to prevent-whether he kill-s you or not. But in the law, you must take some gentleman who has passed an examination, to look after your property, and then he is only allowed to come into court to be thrown out because he has brought a wrong f,rm of action. If I want to employ a man who does not know the law, allow me to do so, to bring him into court to state my case-let him have the right to practice law. Here, for instance, is the distinction between the common law and the chancery sides of a court. The laws put a man on the bench who will button his coat around him, and talk to the common law side of the gentleman in the forenoon, and ill the afternoon he will button around the other way, and talk to the chancery side. [Laughter]. I want to know if such a proceeding does not belong to the dark ages!t Abolish the distinction and let the whole matter comle into court on its merits and in its turn, just like a man going to mill. Oult of the number of lawyers present I amn satisfied my propositioa will be defeated. If we had farmers and mechanics and business men ill equal number, this proposition would be adopted, but we have to{) many lawyers, and I expect defeat. But ~ now give them notice that the initiatory step has been taken, and that the leaven wilt not stop working until this old English practice is banished from Illinois —let it take one or ten years. Look at the technical phraseology! Why, if you go into court, and are arraigned, you can hardly tell} from the languaged used} what you are tried for. A gentleman on this floor has remarked to me since I have been here, that he ha~ 875 YEAS. Gamble, Perley, Goodell, Peirce, Haines of CookPoage, Hankins, Sedgwick, Hart, Sharp, Harwood, Sherrill, Hayes, Sutherland, Hildrup, Tincher, King, Wagner, Merriam, Whiting-82. Parker, NAYS. Allen of Alex.,Goodhue, Tubbs, Allen of Crf'd.,Hay, Turner, Archer, McCoy, Underwood, Atkins, McDowell, Vandeventer, Benjamin, Moore, Wait, Browning, Parks, Wall, Cary, Rice, Washburn, Craig, Robinson, Wells, Ellis, Ross, Wendling English, Scholfield, Wheaton, Forman, Snyder, Wilson-35. Fox, Springer, ABSENT, OR NOT VOTING. Bowman, Eldredge,. Pillsbury, Bromwell, Haines of LakeSkinner, Brown, Hanna, Truesdale, Bryan, Medill, Wright, Buxton, Neece, Mr. President16. Apl?.IL 26, 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1 4 9 "i Abbott, Anderson, Anthony, Bayne, Church, Cody, Coolbaugh, Cross, Cummings, Dement, Fuller, Bowman, Eldredge Pillsbury, Bromwell, Raines oi'LakeSkinner, Brown, Hanna, Truesdale, Bryan, Medill, Wright,' Buxton, Neece, Mr. Prefident-16. Cameron, So the first section offered by Mr. Tincher was not agree-] to. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the second section introduced by the the gentleman from Vermilion [Mr. TiDcher]. The second section offered by Mr. Titicher, was Dot agreed to. Mr. WENDLING. Mr. President: desire to offbr an additional section, which I will read: Any defect, irregularity or error, in the proces,s or pleadings in any suit at law or equity may be corrected and trial be bad, the came ae, if no such defect, irregularity or error existed; Provided, That such correction works no injustice to the opposite party. I propose to detain the Convention but a very tew minutes. I just cast my vote against the proposition offered by the gentleman from Vermilion [Mr. Tiiacherl, and I did so because I am opposed, for reak;ous which I h:tve not now the time to state, to a code. I desire now to speak particularly to the lawyers of the Cf)nvention. We must take cognizance of the state of affairs which exists in the State of Illinois with reference to the practice of the law to-day. I shall, in a moment, meet the objection which arises in the minds of a number of gentlemen that this is special legislation, that the Legislature can attend to all this. I say we must take cognizance of the state of affairs that exists to day. The people are complaining loudly of the evilib that, 1498 COSTITUTIOAL C()YENTION TUESDAY, dict it, will the General Assembly of Illinois, in less than five years, force on the people a code, with all its inconveniences, and all its objectionable features. By adopting this, we will protect the profession, and prevent a great evil, as well as strengthen the Constitution we are about to submit, and benefit the people. Mr. ALLEN, of Crawford. Mr. President: I would not have engaged in the debate at all, had we not been threatened with a code if we failed to pass his favorite proposition. Mr. WENDLING. I am anxious to hear the gentleman's reply, but I do not desire he should misrepresent me. I say that unless the Convention adopt some such proposition as this, I predict the Legislature will in five years, force a code upon us. Mr. ALLEN, of Crawford. I am opposed to the gentleman's proposition. In the first place, it has no business in the Constitution, because it is a mere legislative question, one over which the Legislature has most perfect control. I am opposed to putting it in the Constitution,. secondly, because I have never felt the need of it in the Constitution, as my friend seems to have; nor have I heard those serious complaints in reference to this question about which he speaks. Now, I have never practiced in the gentleman's section of country-in his circuit. I know that in my section, occasionally a good lawyer goes out of court, who, through carelessness in the preparation of his case, overlooked some important matter of substance in its preparation. The law now is, that no man is entitled to a continuance because his pleadings are defective in a mere matter of form. It must be some substantial defect, something which the papers did not prepare the defendant to try, some defect upon the face of the paper against which the party was not put upon his guard to secure the continuance of his case. fh m t is the law now. That is the practice now. But if it be necessary to go further, and give or refuse a continuance in every case, where are defects of pleading, either of form or substance, where the good lawyer or the indifferent lawyer, through either neglect or ignorance, fails to pre. sent a case on paper to which the defendant ought to be required to reply, then, I answer again, the Legislature has ample. power so to legislate, and I apprehend it will be just as easy for the gentleman to procure the passage of a provision through the Legislature curing what he regards as a defect in our practice upon this subject, as it will be for him, or for my friend from Vermilion [Mr. Tincher], or anybody else in the event of the failure of this Convention to engraft this question of pleading upon our Constitution, to ineduce them to engraft this system of code i about which so much has been said. It is toe simple a matter to put in the Constitution, and it is one over which the Legislature has, and will have, in all time to come, ample authority. ["Question," "question."] Mr. RICE. Mr. President: In one respect, I agree with the gentleman from Crawford [Mr. Allen], and that is the proposition introduced by the gentleman from Shelby [Mr. Wendling] is a matter for the Legislature, and for that reason I shall vote against it. But as a matter of legislation, I think T TUESDAY) 1498 CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION exist, when they attempt to bring cases into our courts for the purpose of obtaining justice. I think I may state, as I said in Com mittee of the Whole, that one-half the expense and delay which arises to-day, in our courts of justice, arise from defects and irregularities in papers, which might as well be amended at the time, and trial be had at once. It cannot be said that it results from poor lawyers, pettifoggers or anything of the sort. The best lawyers upon this flo,3r are turned out of court nearly every term of their practice. This argues that there is something radically wrong in the system. It argues there is an evi'I somewhere, and one that should be corrected. Now, sir, this proposition does.Dot change the forms of law. It brings UPOU us none of the evils that would result from the adoption of a code. It simply gives every man the opportunity of obtaining justice, if he has good ground for an action. Now, sir, gentlemen may say that this is special legislation. In the first place, sir, the people will tell them that there is a great aeaf of special legislation in this Constitution that we are going to submit, and, if we will indulge iii special legislation upon one subject, why may we not in another? I take the position that although the Legislature does possess the power to adopt such a law as this proposition embodies, it is, yet, sir, a matter of -ufficient importance to fasten it in the Constitution and make it one of the irrevo-able righti; of the people to obtainjustice in any action, whenever they have a good cause of action. This great evil is of sufficient importance to find a corrective in the fundamental law that we are fraMiDg her-,. Let these gentlemen who are so bitterly oppc,s d to the code'be assured that they can make no better provision against it than this. The spirit of the age is rapidly advandna to that s- age where it will imperatively demand a code, and be conte-it with nothing less. This will satisfy the people, and will not injure the legal ,fraternity. It will guarantee justice to litigants, and will not injure the noblest ,cf all professions. A.nd further than this, I say advisedly, after fully and carefully reflecting upon the subject, that I cannot conceive of one it is a proposition of very great merit, and would cure a great many existing evils. I understand that while a mistake in form does not work a continuance, an amendment, in substance, does. Theoretically, the rale is that if it may "surprise" a party, if a matter of substance, it may be continued as a matter of course. But the proposition of the gentleman from Shelby [Mr. WendliDg], is that although there may be a mistake or amendmeiit in the matter of substance, it still shall not result in delay unless the party shall show that by the change he is surprised, and unprepared for trial. As it is now, if there is a change or amendment, in matter of substance, the party may continue without giving a reason. I know many cases of this kiad are continued. I had myself prepared the lorm of a bill containing the sub tance of the proposition of the gentleman from Shelby [Mr. Weadling], without any concert with him or he with me. That is now before the Committee ui)on tile Revision of Statutes, and I hope it may become an amendment to our practice act. Mr. WAGNER. Mr President: I move the previous question. The motion for tile previous question was agreed to, and the main question ordered. The article proposed by Mr. Wendling, was not agreed to. Mr. VANDEVENTER. Mr. President: I move to reconsider the action of the Convention, by which section seventeen was adopted, in order to move an amendment. The motion to reconsider section seventeen was not agreed to. Mr. ROSS. Mr. President: I desire to move a reconsideration of section eleven. Mr. WHEATON. How did the gentleman vote upon section eleven? The PRESIDENT. The rule requires some member voting in the majority to move a reconsideration. Mr. ROSS. Mr. President: Then I will only assure the Convention that the section is very objectionable to the peolple, and hope some one who is competent will make the motion. Mr. CHURCH. Mr. President: I desire only to remark that we never shall get through, if gentlemen go away, remain away during the consideration of APRIL 26, 1870. DEBATES AND POCEEDIGS. 1499 on the motion to recommit the judiciary gether, to procure a recon'3ideration, and have been in order for me, after section get,her, to procure a reconsideration, and defeat the whole article after it has been adopted? In that way the Constitution can be defeated, after it has been adopted. I may be wrotng, but I think the motion to lay the article on the table is hardly in order. Mr. DEMEN r'. Mr. President: When I rose a moment ago, it was to assume that the Chair had decided rightly. But the whole article is in the possession of the Convention, and while so, I think it is under their control, to refer, to lay on the table, to print, or for any purpose. I have no doubt we have the right to lay it on thetable. Mr. CHURCH. Mr. President: The question whether it would be in order to lavy the article on the table depends on the question whether it would be in order to move its adoption, or whether it is now on its adoption. If there is no such question befere the Gonvention, there is and can be nothing to lay on the table. My recollection is that the practice has been to consider articles section by section, and that when all the sections have been adopted,then the article itself has been considered as adopted. After that there Lmay v be a reconsideration of either of the different sections, or a reconsideration of all the sections; and all the sections in that way may be brought back before the Coiivention, and laid upon the table. If it is now regarded as adopted, accoraing to the practice that we have had heretofore, and such is my recollection, it certainly cannot be in order to lay it on the table, nor to make any further disposition of it except to commit it to the C,)mmittee on Revision and Adjustment, or move a reconsideration of any portion of it that we may desire to amend. Mr. COOLBAUGH. Mr. President: I have no doubt myself that the motion of the gentleman from Fulton [Mr. Ross], to lay upon the table, is in order. We have a rule especially upon that subject: A motion for adjournment shall always be in order, and be decided, as well as the motion to lay on the table, without debate. I suppose the object is to have a test vote upon the adoption of the article, and we might as well do it in this way as in any other. Let it be understood as a test vote. We could effect precisely the same thing by a test vote as to whether we would commit the article to the Committee on Revision and Adjustment. It would be in' order to call the ayes and noes on that. Mr. WHEATON. Mr. President: The article, section by section, seriatim, has t been passed. As the Chair has stated, it has been the practice thus to adopt the article. Now, it seems to me that a motion to lay on the table, if in order at all, would reach each separate section, and thus any member of this Convention could take up each section seriatim, and move to lay that section on the table, with just as much propriety as to move to lay the whole article upon the table. Mr. ROSS. Mr President: I would inquire of the gentleman whether, if we have the power to refer, we have not also the power to lay on the table? Mr. WHEATON. I conceive, sir, that we have no power to refer to any other committee than the Committee on Revision and Adjustment. That is the necessary course which all articles adopted by the Convention must take. Now, I conceive, sir, that it would not A bbott, ] Bayne, 1 Coolbaugh, Cummings, Dement, ] English, ] Fox, Haines of Co' k, NAYS. Allen of Cr'fd.,Goodell, Anderson, Goodhue, Anthony, Hankins, Archer, Hart, Atk ins, Ha rwood, Benjamin, Hay, Browning, Hayes, Church, Hildrup, Cody, King, Craig, Merriam, Cross, Moore, Forman, Parker Fuller, Parks, Gamble, AB SENT, OR NOT VOTING.r Allen of Alex.,Cary, Robinson, Bowman, Eldredge, Pillsbury, Bromwell, Ellis, Skinner, Brown, Haines of Lake, Tincher, Bryan, Hanna, Truesdale, Buxton, Medill, Wright,, Cameron, Neece, Mr. President-22. Abbott, Goodell, Allen of Alex., Goodhue, Allen, of Cr'fd,Hankins~ Anthony, Hart, Archer, Harwood, Atkins, Hay, Benjamin, Hayes, Browning, Hildrup, Cary, King, Church, McCoy, Coolbaugh, Moore, Craig, Parks, Cross, Perley, English, Poage, Forman, Rice, Fuller, Scholfield, Gamble, Sherrill, APRIL 26, 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDI-NGS. 1499 on the motion to recommit the judiciary report, with instructions to strike out section eleven. Mr. SEDGWICK. Mr. President: I call for a division of the question. ["No,",no.,,] The PRESIDENT. The question is not divis I ble. Mr. CUHMINGS. Mr. President: I call for the yeas and nays. The question being on the motion of Mr. Ross to recommit the article on judiciary, with instructions to strike out section eleven, the yeas and nays were ordered, and being'taked, resulted-yeas, 22, nays, 40-as follows: have been in order for me, after section one had been acopted, and we had proceeded to section two, to call up section one again, and move that it be laid upon the table. If I had made such a mot-ion, I believe you would have decided that I was out of order. And if one cannot move to lay on the table one section after its adoption, one cannot move to lay forty-nine on the table after their adoption. The PRESIDENT. The Chair regards the motion of the gentleman fro,-n Fulton [Mr. Ross] as in order until the Convention shall have disposed cf the article by committing it to the Committee on Revision and Adjustment. The question is upon the motion to lay on the table. The yeas and Days were ordered. The Secretary proceeded to call the roll. Mr. WELLS (when his name was called) said: While I am opposed to many of the sections of the article, believing them to be illy framed and illy adapted to meet the wants of the people. I am yet constrained to believe that the I%ying of this report upon the table will not accomplish the object that is desired-that is, the revision and amendment of it, and therefore I vote "No." I The result was then announced-yeas, 13; nays, 50-as followf3: yS. McCoy, cdowell, oss, ubbs, Vandeventer, Wagner wai, Wasfiburn, Wells, Wendline. Wilson2. Perley, Beholfleld, Sedgwick, Sharp, Sherrill, Snyder, Springer, Sutherland, Turner, Underwood, Wait, Wheaton, Whiting. yS. Anderson, Bayne, Cummings, Dement, Ellis,. Fox, Parker, Haines ofcook, Ross, .McDowell, Sharp, Merriam, Wasliburn-13. NA.YS. Snyder, Springer, Sutherland, Tincher, Tabbs, Turne, Underwood, Vandeventer, Wagner, Wait, Wa" Well,., Wendling, Wheaton, - Whitinz., Wilson50. So the motion of Mr. Ross was not agreed to. Mr. HAYES. I move that the article be now referred to the Committee on Revision ai d Adjustment. Mr. ROSS. I move that the article be laid on the table. Mr. HAYES. Is that motion in order? The PRESIDENT. The motion to lay on the table, takes precedence of the motion to commit. Mr. HAYES. This article has been adopted. Is it in order to move to lay it on the table? The PRESIDENT. Each section has been adopted, it is true; still the Chair has not yet put the question on the article as a whole. It is now adopted. Mr. ROSS. Is the motion to lay it on the table in order? The PRESIDENT. It is in order. Mr. ROSS. I make that motion. Mr. SEDGWICK. I move to add "and be printed." Mr. HAYES. Mr. President: I would like to, be heard for a moment on the question of order, as it is very importa.ut. The PRESIDENT. The Chair would be very glad to hearsuLLrestions from gentlemen on the question of order. Debate on the article is not in order. Mr. HAYES. - Mr. President: Would it not be possible for parties defeated on various propositions submitted in ComM'Ittee of the Whole, by combining AP ABSENT, OR NOT VOTING. Bowman, Bromwell, Brown, Bryan, Buxton, Cameron, Cody, Eldredze. Robinson, HaineotLake,Skinner, Hanna. Sedgwic-k, Medill; Truesdale, Neece, Wright, Peirce, Mr. Prid'ent-20. Pillsbury, qo the motion of Mr. Ross so lay on the table the article on the judiciary, was not agreed to. Mr. SCHOLFIELD. Mr. President: I now move that the article be referred to the Committee on Revision and Adjustment. Mr. CARY. Before that is done I wish to offer an additional section. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the motion to commit to the Committee on Revision and Adjustment, and the Chair cannot entertain further propositions. Mr. PEIRCE. I move to amend the motion to commit, so that it will be a motion to commit with instructions that this article be submitted to the people separately. It will be remembered that the judiciary article of the State of New York was so submitted, and was the oni-y part of the Constitution that was caroea. 1500 COST1TUTIOAL COYEXTJO TUESDAY, diminished in number, and the times and places of holding said court may be changed. SEC. 5. The present grand divisions shall be preserved, and be denominated Southern, Central and Northern, until otherwise proevided by law. The State shall be divided into seven districts for the election of judges, and until otherwise provided by law, they shall be arranged as follows: TFirst District-To be composed of the counties of St. Clair, Washington, Jefferson, Wayne, Edwards, Wabash, White, Hamilton, Franklin, Perry, Randolph, Monroe, Jackson, Williamson, Saline, Gallatin, Hardin, Pope, Union, Johnson, Alexander, Pulaski, Msssac and Clinton. Second District-To be composed of the counties of Madison, Bond, Marion, Clay, Richland, Lawrence, Crawford, Jasper, Effing ham, Fayette, Montgonlery Maccupin, Shel by, Cumberland, Clark, Greene, Jersey, Cal whoun and Christian. Third District-To be composed of the coun ties of Sangamon, Macon, Logan, DeWitt, Platt, Douglas, Champaign, Vermilion, Mc Lean, Livingston, Ford, Iroquois, Coles, Ed gar, Moultrie and Tazewell. Fourth District-To be composed of the counties of Fulton, McDonough, Hancock, Schuyler, Brown, Adams, Pike, Mason, Me nard, Morgan, Cass and Scott. Fifth District-To be coinposed of the coun ties of Knox, Warren, Henderson, Mercer, Henry, Stark, Peoria, Marshall, Putnam, Bu reau, LaSalle, Grundy and Woodford. Sixth District —To be composed of the coun ties of Whiteside, Carroll, JoDaviess, Steph enson, Winnebago, Boone, McHenry, Kane, Kendall, DeKalb, Lee, Ogle and Rock Is land; and the Seventh District-To be composed of the counties of Lake, Cook, Will, IFankakee and PDuPage. tst the time of voting on the adok,ion of this Constitution, one judge of the su preme court shall be elected by the electors thereof in each of said districts numbered two, three, six and seven, and who shall hold their office for the term of nine years from the first Monday of June, A. D. 1870. And when ever the districts for the election of said judges shall be altered, the same shall be done upon the rule of equality of popula tion, as nearly as county boundaries will per mit. Suc. 6. The judges of the supreme court in o,ffice at the adoption of this Constitution shall continue to hold their offices until the expiration of the term for which they were respectively elected, and the chief justice shall continue to act as such until the expira tion of the term for which he was elected,, after which the judges shall choose one of their number chief justice. U SEc. 7. From and after the adoption of this Constitution, the judges of the supreme court shall each receive a salary of $4,000 per an vnum, payable quarterly, until otherwise pro vided by law; and after said salaries shall be fixed by law, they shall not be increased or diminished during the terms for which said inop-judges shall have been elected.Sc.1.Foan afethadpino rated towns. ~~~~~SEC. S. Appeals and writs of error may bethsonttto,jdeoftecrutcut SUPREME cOURT. taken to the supreme court in the division salrcieaslr ftretosn o S~c 2.Thesupemecout sallconistofwhere the case is decided, or, by consentlaspranmpaalqurel,uiloh jeve juges an shll aveoriina jui.~ic-of the parties, to any other division. ews rvddb a;adatrtersl tio incass rlatng o te rvene, aa- SEc. 9. The supreme court shall appointrissalbfiebylwthysalntb dame an haeascorus, nd ppelat juis-one reporter of its decisions, who shall hold icesdo iiihddrn h em o dicton n al oter ase. Oe ofsai jugeshis office for six years, subject to removal bywhc sidjde shl berepciey shal b chef ustce;fou shll onsitue athe court.eece aidfoanafethadpino quorm, nd he oncrrece f fur hal be SEC. 10. At the time of the election forthsontuto,njugofncspeeo necessaryto every ecision.representatives in the General Assembly, hapcicicorshlreevanotecopn SEC.3. o prsonshal b eliibl tothepening next preceding tile expiration of the slo,prust rbnft n~yfr offce f jdgeof he uprme our wh isnotterms of office of the present clerks of said ~hlovrnrpromayohrta a ciize oftoeUnied tate an ofthi Stte;court, one clerk of said court for each division jdti1dte owihmybln n norunlss e sallhav relde inthi Stte(unless otherwise provided by law) shall be eouet for iveyear ormoreimmdiatly receingelected, whose term of offiece shall b/e six years Sc.1.Npesnsalbelgbetth hiseletio, sallresde,at he imeof isfrom said election (but who shall not enter ofc fjdeo h ici rayifro elecion inthe iviionin hichhe hal beupon the duties of his o)ffice until the exptra- cut ra ebro h bado on eleced,andbe t last hiry yarsof ge. tion of the term of his predecessor), and every t omsinr, h sntactzno Sac.4. Trmsof te sprem cort sallsix years thereafter, one clerk of said court teUie ttsado hsSae o n contnueto b hed inthepresnt randdi-for each divilon shall be elected.lesbsalhaeriddintiSttfo visios, a the everl plaes nw proidedPPELLATE COURTS.fveyasomoeimeitlprcdn for oldng he ametherin,untl oherise SEC. 11. After the year A. D. 1874. infeor hielcion:salresd,a h ieoi proide bylaw; ad, nti oterwse ro-appellate courts, of uniform. organizationelcinintecrutconyociyi vide bylaw on ormoreters o Mad curtand jurisdiction, may be rcrated in districtswhcheielce,adsalbnolesta shal behel, fr te nrthrn iviion informed for that purpose, to which such ap- tet-ieyaso g. Termvlo thecit ofCniago ech ear atsuc tiespeals and writs of error may be prosecuted aysc ug rofcrfo h ici as sid our ma apoint whnevr sid ityfrom circuit and other courts as the General cut rct nadfrwihh hl or he ouny o Cok sallproideappo-Assembly may provide, and from which ap-haebeelce,salvcthiofie prite oom threfr, nd he se f asuia-peals and writs of error shall lie to the sn- CUT ORS ble ibrry ithut xpene t th Stte.Thepreme court in all criminal cases and cases in SC 5 hr hl eeetdI n o judcia diisins ay e ateid, ncrase orwhich a franchise or freehold, or the validityeahcut,bth eecrthroon of a statute is involved, and in such other cases as may be provided by law. Such appellate courts shall be held by such number of judges of the circuit courts, and at such times and plaes, ad a f o in such manner as mav be provided by law: Provided, That saild ju dge s shall not respeive any additional comp e n sation for such services. But no judge shall sit in review upon cases decided by him. CIRCUIT COURTS. Sxc. 12. The circuit cou rts s hall have original jurisdiction of all c auses in law ay d equity, and su c h a ppellate jurisd iction as is or may be provided by law; and shall hold two or more terms each year in every county. The ter ms of office of judges of circuit court s shall be six years, and the present judges shall hold the ir offices until the expiration of the terms for which they were respectively elected. SEC. 13. The State (exclusive of the county of Cook and other counties having a population of one hundred thousand) shall,befbre the expiration of the terms of office of the present judges of the circuit courts, be divided into ju dicial circuits-not more than one circuit for every one hundred thousand inhabitants of the State-the circuits to be made as nearly equal as may be one with another, having due regard to business, territory and Dopulation; and for each of which one judge shall be elect ed by the electors thereof. The judicial divis ions and judicial circuits shall be formed of contiguous counties, in as nearly compact form as circumstances will permit. New cir culits may be formed, and the boundaries of circuits and divisions changed by the General Assembly at its sessions next preceding the election of the judges of the circuits or divis ions sought to be changed, but at no other time: Provided,'.hat the circuits may be equalized or changed at the first session of the General Assembly after the adoption of this Constitution. The creation, alteration or change of any judicial division or judicial circuit shall not affect the tenure of office of any judge. When additional circuits are created, the foregoing limitations shall be ob served. SEC. 14. The General Assembly shall pro vide for the times of holding court in each county; which times shall not be changed, except by the General Assembly next preced ing the general election for judges of said courts; but additional terms may be provided for in any county. The election for judges of the circuit courts shall be held on the first Monday in June next succeeding the creation of new circuits under this Constitution, and every six years thereafter. SEc. 15. The General Assembly may di vide the State into judicial circuits of greater population and territory, in lieu of the cir cuits provided for in section thirteen, and provide for the election therein, severally, by the electors thereof, by general ticket, not exceeding four judges, who shall, respectively hold the circuits courts in the circuit fbr which they shall be elected, in such manner as may be provided by law. SEC. 16f. From and after the adoption of this Constitution, judges of the circuit courts shall receive a salary of three thousand donla,'s per annum, payable quarterly, until otherwise provided by law, and after their sala,. ries shall be fixred by law, they shlall not be increasedl or diminished during the terms for which said judges shall be, respectively, elected; anld, from and after the adoption of this CJonstitutio)n, no judge of thae supreme oF circuit court shall receive any other compensation, perquisite or benefit, in -ally torm whatsoever, nor perform any other than judicial duties to which may belong any emo~luments. SEC. 17. No person shall he eligible to the office of judge of the circuit or any inferior court, or as a member of the "board of county commissioners,}' who is not a citizen of the United States and of this State;* nor unless he shall have ressided in this State for five years or more, immediately preceding his election: shadl reside, at the time of his election, in the circuit, county or city in which he is elected, and shall be not less than twenty-five years of age. The removal of any such judge or officer from the circuit, county or city in anid for which he shall have been elected. shall vacate his office. COUNTY COURTS. SEC. 18. There shall be elected in and for each county, by the elecl~rs thereof, one ARTICLE -. JUDIC.ARY DEPARTMENT. SECTION 1. rhe judicial powers, except as in this article is otherwise provided, shall be vested in one supreme court, circuit courts, county courts, justices of the peace, police magistrates, and in such courts as may be creat.ed bv law in and for cities and inc)rporated towns. CONSTITITTIONAL CONVENTION TUESDAY, 1500 The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the motion of the gentleman from Grundy [Mr. Peirce]. Mr' CODY. Mr. President: It seems to me to be no part of the business of that committee to make that revision. It is a matter for the schedule. The PRESIDENT. It seems to the Chair not so much a question of order f.)r the decision of the Chair as a question of fitness and propriety for the Convention to determine by their vote. The question is upon the amendment of the gentleman from Grundy [Mr. Peirce.] .Mr. HAY. Mr. President: I think it is rather premature to determine now what portion of this Constitution we will submit separately. We may come to the conclusion to submit every article separately, or to submit the whole as a whole, and it might embarrass us with reference to our choice to take separate action now witb. reference to instructions to the Committee on Revision on each article as it is passed. When the Committee on Revision make their report, aud the Committee on the Schedule, the whole matter will come before the Convention as to the propriety of submitting the Constitution by separate articles or as a whole, and we can act with more light upon the question than we can now. For that reason, I would prefer, al though disposed to submit the CoDstitu tit)n by separate articles, so far as possible, not to. commit myself upon it just now. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the motion of the gentleman from Grundy [Nir. Peirce] to commit the arti cle with instructions. The motion was not agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The qt-i,.-stion is upon the motion, to commit to the Comnlittee on Revision and Adjustment. Ttie m)tion was agreed to. - [The following is the article as referred to the Committee on Revision and Adjustmetit:j .SUPREME CO'URT. Sp,c. 2. The supreme court shall consist of ,seven judges, and shall have original juri,dletion in cases relating to the revenue, mandamus and habeas corpus, and appellate jurisdictioninallotherea,se,s. Oneofsaidjudges shall be cli-lef justice; four shall constitute a quorum, and the concurrence of four shall be necessary to every decision. SF,c. 3. No person shall be eligible to the -office of iudle of the supreme court who is not a citizen of tile United States and of this State; nor unless he shall have reided in this State for five years or more immediately preceding his election, shall reside, at the time of his election, in the division in which he shall be elected, and be at least thirty years of age. SEc. 4. Terms of tile supreme court shall coutinue to be held in the present grand divisions, at the several places now provided for holding the same therein, until otherwise provided by law; and, until otherwise provided by law, one or naore terms of raid court shall be held, for the northern division, in the city of Cnica,go, each year, at such times as said court may appoint, whenever said city or the county of Cook shall provide appropriate rooms therefor, and the use of a suitable library without expense to the State. The judicial divisions may be altered, increased or APRIL 26, 1870. DEBATES API) PROCEEDIXGS. 1501 be elected on the day on which this Consti tution shall be submitted to the people for adoption. SEC. 31. The superior court of Chicago shall be continued, and called the superior court of Cook county. The presentjudges of said court shall remain in office for the terms for which they were respectively elected, and until their successors shall be elected and qualified. SEC. 32. The General Assembly may in crease the number of said judges by adding one to either of said courts, for every addi tional fifty thousand inhabitants in said coun ty over and above a population of four hun dred thousand; and whenever the population of any other county, or two or more contigu ous counties exceeds fifty thousand, and the business of the circuit courts in said county or counties occupies nine months a year, the General Assembly may make of said county or counties a separate circuit. SEC. 33. The terms of office of the judges of said courts, except as herein otherwise provided, shall be six years. SEC. 34. Any judge of either of said courts shall have all the powers of a circuit judge, and may hold the court of which he is a member. Each of them may hold a different branch thereof at the same time. SEC. 35. The judge having the shortest un-, expired term shall be chief justice of the court of which he is a judge. In case there are two or more whose terms expire at the same time, it may be determined by lot. SEC. 36. The judges of the superior and circuit courts and the State's attorney in said county shall receive the same salaries, payable cut of the State treasury, as is or may be paid from said treasury to the circuit judges and State's attorneys of the State, and such further compensation, to be paid by the county of Cook, as is or may be provided by law. Such compensation shall not be changeda during their continuance in office. SEc. 37 The recorder's court of the city of Chicago shall be continued, and shall be called the "criminal court of Cook county." It shall have the jurisdiction of a c ircuit court, in all cases of criminal and quasi criminal nature, arising in the county of Cook or that may be brought before said court, pursuant to law; and,all recognizances and appeals, taken in said county in criminal and quasi criminal cases, shall be returnable and taken to said court. It shall have no jurisdiction in civil cases, except in those on behalf of t he people, and incident to such criminal or quasi criminal matters, and to dispose of unfinished business. The terms of said criminal court of Cook couity shall be held by one or more of the judges of the circuit or superior courts of Cook county, as nearly as may be in alternation, as may be determined by said judges. or provided by law. Said judges shall be, ex-oqbcio, judges of said court. b SEC. 38S. The present clerk of the recorder's court of the city of Chicago shall be the clerk of the criminal court of Cook county, during the term for which he was elected. The present clerks of the superior court of uniform. ~~~~~~~~Chicago, and the present clei:[ of the circuit ofc petis rb h ug rjde STATE'S ATTORNEYS.court of Cook county shall continue in office teef n falsc te fie,b h during the terms for which they were respect-bor ofspriosoborofcut SEC 28 Th peset Sates ttoney shllively elected, and thereafter there shall be cmisoes ntecut hr h a hol thir ffies nti th exiraionof hebut one clerk of the superior court, to becayocus termsfor wlcli hey ere eected Theelected by the qualified electors of' said con- SC48Alprcsshlrun,-ote as electors of each count~yshl, athtieotywho shall hold lils office for the term of o h epeo ~ tt fIlni n l the lecionforrepesenaties n te Gsi-fou'r years and until his successor is elected poeuin hl ecrido ntenm cralAssebly appeingnextprecdingtheand qualified. a~ yteatirt fti epeo h tt cut tats Atornys, lec a Sates Ator- SEC. 39. The clerks of all the courts of roe-dintoftese."ouai,"weee neyin nd or act conty inlie ofStae'sord, the treasurer, sheriff, coroner and re- ue nti ril,salb eemndb attoney as ow rovied y la, wose ermcorder of deeds of said county, shall receivethnetpeeigcnuoftiSttoro of ffie sallbe ouryers i-o sad eectonas their only compensation for their services,th itdtts (butwhoshal no ener uon he dtie ofsalaries, to be fixed by law, which shall in no SE.- Th temoofieojugso offie utilthe xpiatin oftheter ofcase be as much as the lawful compensation tespeecuteetdatrteaoto offce f hs pedcesor) an eeryfou yersof a judge of the circuit court, and shall be o hsCnttto,salb ieyas n theraftr th elctor ofeachcouty sallpaid resp~ectively only out of the fees of the o h is Ina fJn,o h eri elec a tat's ttoney or uchcouty. office, actually collected. All fees, per-whcthtemoanoftejdeinofc COURTS F coox OUNTY.quisitea and emoluments (above the amountatteaotooftiCosiuinoroth of said salaries) shall be paid into the county jde hneetd hl xie n vr SEC.29.Thecouty f Cok hal beonetreasury. Tim number of such deputies andnieyasteefe,teesalbandjudicial circuit. ~~~assistants shall be determined by rule of thetinrthsucsoorscesrofsc SEC.30.Theciruitcour ofCoo contycircuit court to be entered of record, andjugsintersetvdititwhrith shal onsstof iv j~~C, uti thirnumertheir compensation shall be determined bytemosuhjdeshlexie presnt jdge f th recrders cort o the SEC. 40. All justices of the peace in the city ONIS cityof hicgo,andthe resnt udg oftheof Chicago, shall be appointed by the Gover- ~~A~ 1.Peiet:Imv ciruitcout o Cok ouny, hal betwoofnor, by and with the advice and consent of ta h -pr fteCmiteo h sai juges ad sallreainin ffce or hethe senate (but only upon the recommenda- Woeuo h lbeto onisb anduntl teirsucessrs hal beeletedandsuperior and county courts), and for such dia-notaeup qualfie. Tree udgs o sai cort hadtricts as are now or shall hereafter be, pro- Thmoinwsardto vided by law. They shall hold their offices for four years, and until their successors have been commissioned and qualified; but they may be removed by summary proceeding in the circuit or superior court for extortion or other malfeasance. Existing justices of the peace and police magistrates may hold their offices until the expiration of their respective terms. GENERiL PROVISIONS. SEC. 43. All judicial officers shall be com missioned by the Governor. SEC. 44. All laws relating to courts shall be general, and of uniform operation; and the organization, jurisdiction, powers, proceed ings and practice of all courts, of the same class or grade, so far as regulated by law, and the force and effect of the process, judgmelnts and decrees of such courts, severally, shall be uniform. SEC. 45. The General Assembly may, for cause entered on the journals, upon due notice and opportunity of defense, remove from offdce any judge, upon concurrence of threefourths of all the members elected, of each house. All other officers in this article mentioned shall be removed from office on indictment and final conviction for misdemeanor in office. SEc. 46. All judges of courts of record, inferior to the supreme court, shall, on or before the first day of June, of each year, report in writing to the judges of the supreme court, such defects and omissions in the laws, as their experience may suggest; and the judges of the supremie court shall, on or before the first day of January, of each year, report in writing, to the Governor (to be by him com municated to the General Assembly), such defects and omissions in the Constitution and laws as they may find to exist, together with appropriate forms of bills to cure such defects and omissions in the laws. And the judges of the several circuit courts shall report to the next General Assembly the number of days they have held court in the several counties comprising their respective circuits the preceding two years. SEC. 47. All officers nrovided for in this article shall hold their offices until their successors shall be qualified, and shall, respectively, reside in the division, circuit, county or district, for which they may be elected or appointed. The terms of office of all such officers, where not otherwise prescribed in this article, shall )e four years. And all who may be in office at the adoption of this Constitution shall continue to hold their offices until the expiration of the terms for which they were respectively elected, except as herein otherwise provided. All officers, where not otherwise provided for in this article, shall perform such duties and receive such compensation as is or may be provided by law. Vacancies in such elective officesf shall be filled bv election; but where the unexpired term does not exceed one year, the vacancy shall be filled by appointment, as follows: Of judges, by the Governor; of clerks of courts, by the court to which the office appertains, or by the judge or judgem thereof; and of all such other offices, bay the board of supervisors or board of county com~missionersv, in the county where the vacanc~y occurs. SEC. 48. All process shall ruln, In the name of the people of the State of Illinois;* and al1 prosecutions shall be carried on Its the name and by the authoritny of th~e people of the State of' IllinoCis, and conclude Agarinvst the peace and dlbgnity of the same, "Population," wher ever used in this article, shall be determined by the next preceding census of this State or of the Urnted States. SEc. A. The term of officec of judges of the supreme court, elected after the adoption of this Constitution, shall be nine years, and on the first Monday of June, sof the year in which the term of any of the judges in office at the adoption of this Constitution, or of the judges then elected, shall expire, and every nine years thereafter, there shall be an election ior the successor or successors of such judges, in the respective districts wherein the term of such judges shall expire. COUNTIES. lDfr. CRAIG. M~r. Presiden~: I move that the report of the Comnmittee of the Whole upon the subject of counties be now taken up. The motion was agreed to. COUNTY COMMISSIONERS. SEC. 24. There shall be elected in each of the counties of this State not under township organization, three officers, who shall be styled "the boa rd of county commissioners," and who s hall hold sessions for the transaction of county business as shall be provided by law. SEc. 25. At the first election of county judges under this Constitution, said commissioners shall be elected —one of whom shall hold his office for one year, one for two years, and one for three years,-to be determined by lot; and every year thereafter one such officer shall be elected for the term of three years. PROBATE COURTS. SEC. 26. The General Assembly may provide for the establishment of a probate court iu each county having over fifty thousand population, and for the election of a judge thereof, whose term of office shall be the same as that of the county judge, and who shall be elected at the same time and in the same manner. Said courts, when established, shall be in lieu of county courts, have original jurisdiction of all probate matters, the settlement of estates of deceased persons, the appointment of guardians and conservators and settlements of their accounts, and in all matters relating to apprentices, and in cases of sales of real estate of deceased persons for the payment of debts. JUSTICES OF THE PEACE AND CONST,BI,ES. SEC. 27. Justices of the peace, police magistrates and constables shall be elected in and for such districts as are or may be provided by law; but the jurisdiction of such justices of the peace and police magistrates shall be uniform. STATE,'S ATTORNEYS. SEC. 28. The present State's Attorneys shall hold e ice heen o their offics until the epiratio of the terms for which they were elected. The electors of each county shall, at the time of the election for representatives in the General Assembly happening next preceding the expiration of the terms of office of the present States Attorneys, elect a State's Attorney in and for each county, in lieu of State's attorneys as now provided by law, whose term of office shall be four years from said election (but who shall not enter upon the durties of office until the expiration of the term of office of his predecessor), and every four years thereafter the electors of each county shall elect a State's Attorney for such county. COURTS OF COOK COUNTY. SEe. 29. The county of Cook shall be one judicial circuit. SEC. 30. The circuit court of Cook county shall consist of five judges, until their number shall be increased, as herein provided. The present judge of the recorder's court of the city of Chicago, and the present judge of the circuit court of Cook county, shall be two of said judges, and shall remain in office for the terms for which they were respectively elected and until their successors shall be elected and qualified. Three judges of said court shal 376 APP.IL 26) 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1501 judge and one clerk of the county court, who-se terms of offlce shall be four years, but the General Assembly may create districts of two or more counties in each of which shall be elected one judge, who shall take the place and exercise all the powers and jurisaiction of county judges in such districts. Countv courts shall be courts of record, and shall leave original jurisdiction in all matters of probate, settlement of estates of deceased persons, appointment of guardians and conservators and settlement of their accounts; in all matters relatinz to apprentices; and in proceedings for the collection of taxes and assessments, and such other jurisdiction as m,,iy be provided bv general law. Sr,c. 21. Apeals and writs of error shall be allowed from final determidations of county courts, as may be provided by law. SEc. 22. The county judges and clerks of county courts, in offlee at the adoption of this Constitution, shall hold their offices until the expiration of their respective terms, and the county courts now in existence shall have the same power and jurisdiction they now possess, until the judges and clerks of county courts, provided for by this Constitu'lon,shall be elected and qualified, aDd such other j.risdiction as may be provided by general law. Q-. 16 1502 COSTITUTIOAL OOYETIO WEDNESDAY, Mr. ^FOX. Mr. President: I would TePEIET h mnmn The PRESIDENT. The amendment will be declared concurr ed in. The next amendment reported by the Conmmitteee of the Whole is to section four, and to the fourth line thereof, by which the word "fifty" is stricken out, and "twenty" inserted. Are there amendments to be proposed? [Section four as reported by the standing committee.] SEC. 4. No county seat shall be removed until the point to which it is proposed to be removed shall be fixed by law,and a majority of the voters of the count.y, voting on the question, shall have voted in favor of its removal to such point: Provided, that in all cases where a county seat has been located fifty years, and in cases where a vote has been or may be taken to remove a county seat, and has been or may be decided in the negative, and a subsequent effort is made to remove to the same place, two-thirds of all the voters voting on the question, shall be necessary to effect a removal of such county seat. [Section four as amended in Committee of the Whole.] SEC. 4. No county seat shall be removed until the point to which it is proposed to be removed shall be fixed by law, and a majority of the voters of the county, voting on the question shall have voted in favor of its removal to such point: Provided, that in all cases where a county seat has been located twenty years, and in cases where a vote has been or may be taken to remove a county seat, and has been or may be decidedin the negative,and a subsequent effort is mode to remove to any point within three miles of the same place, two-thirds of all the voters voting on the question shall be necessary to effct the removal of such county seat. Mr. ALLEN, of Alexander. Mr. President: Would it be in order to move to strike out the proviso in the section? The PRESIDENT. It is not now in order, but it will be in order upon the consideration of the section. Amendments are in order to the amendment proposed by the Committee of the Whole striking out "fifty,"and inserting "twenty." Mr. FOX. Mr. President: I call for the yeas and nays on that. Mr. McCOY. Mr. President: Isit in order to introduce a substitute? The PRESIDENT. A substitute is not in order at the present stage of the question. Mir. TURNER. Mr. President: I move to further amend by inserting "ten " instead of "twenty," in the fourth line. Mr. WALL. Mr. President: I desire to occupy the time of this Convention for a single moment in relation to this proposed restriction. The report of the Committee on Counties provided that in case where a county seat had been located fifty years, or wher e a vote havin~g been once taken on the question of removal had failed, a twothirds vote should be necessary. The amendment of the Committee of the Whale is to strike out "fifty" and insert "twenty." In other words? there are two conditions in which a two-thirds vote is required. One is where a county seat has simply been located twenty years. T~he other is where a vote has once been taken, and decided ill the negative. I desire to say, Mr. President, that in mly j udgment the Convention will do well to avoid this question of the removal of county seats as much au possible. The provision of the present Constitution is that no county teat shall be re Mr.'FOX. Mr. President: I would ask leave of absence for the gentleman from McDonough [Mr. Neece]. Leave was granted nero. con. DUELING. Mr. SPRINGER asked, and by unanimous consent, obtained leave to offer the following resolution, which was read by the Secretary, and referred to the Committee on Miscellaneous Subjects: Resolved, That the Constitution should be so amended as to provide as follows: Any inhabitant of this State who shall hereafter be engaged in a duel, either as principal or accessory, or who shall send or accept, or knowingly be the bearer of a challenge to fight a duel, or who shai aid or assist in any manner those thus offending, shall forever be disqualified as an elector and from holding any office under the Constitution and laws of this State, and may be punished in such other manner as shall be prescribed by law. WORK OF THE COMM3ITTEE ON REVISION AND ADJUSTMENT. Mr. CODY. Mr. President: I rise to what may perhaps be termed a privileged question. I desire to make a statement for the information of the members of the Convention, in reference to the work of the Committee on Revision and Adjustment. The legislative article has been revised and printed, and will be laid upon the tables of members to day, so that each member can make a full and thorough examination of it, and be prepared to act at once upon the report of the committee when it shall come in. It has been suggested to me, since I came into the hall this morning, that perhaps it would be well to print the re. port referred to the committee along with the report as revised by the comr mittee, so that members may have both before them to compare. But the arrangement of the sections, the changes in the places that the sections occupied in the article, will make it difficult to comply with that request. The Committee on Revision will consider this matter this evening, as they hold meetings every evening, and will endeavor to devise some plan by which the same end may be attained, as by the plan to which I have just alluded. As I have already stated, the report on the legislative article will be laid on the tables to-day, and a careful examination of it is requested, that members may be prepared to act without delay when the report comes in. PRAKYER. Prayer was offered by the Rev. Mr. Carnahan, of Springfield, as follows: 0 Thou great and eternal God; Thou art from everlasting to everlasting, the same yesterday, to-day and forever. Thoudoest Thy will in the armies of Heaven, and among the children of men. Thou dost set up kings and teach senators wisdom. Thou art the great intelligence of the universe; and we adore Thee as our creator and the giver of all our powers and blessings. And now we beseech Thee to draw near to us, that in tranquility of mind, and with a good and true heart, we may begin the work of this, another day. Direct these, Thy servants, who in Thy providence are placed in this responsible position. Bless them in persOD, in mind, heart and estate; guide them in all their labors. Bless the State for which they work, the nation in which we live, and let the light of civil liberty, the light of religious liberty, and the influence of Thy word go forth as the morning sud,uutil all the darkness of the earth is illumined,until everv fetter is broken, until every fallen mortal shall arise in manhood and the enjoyment of his rights. And not only this, but let the blessings of Thy grace go forth, till fallen humanity be lifted to the position of Thy children; and bring us all, at last, to the glories of Thy Heavenly presence,in that higher life,through Christ our redeemer. Amen. REMOVING COUNTY SEATS. Mr. McCOY introduced the petition of Joseph Golder and one hundred and sixty others, legal voters of Whiteside county, pretesting against any provision being incorporated in the Constitution, making the removal of county seats more difficult. The petition was laint on the table, to be considered with the article on counties. COUNTIES. The PRESIDENT. The question pending is on the amendment of the Committee of the Whole to section three of the article on counties. The Secretary read section three and the amendment, as follows: [Section three as reported by the standing committee.] SEc. 3. There shall be no territory stricken firom any county unless a majority of the voters living in such territory shall petition for such division; and no territory shall be added to any county without the consent of a majority of the voters of the county to which it is proposed to be added. [The amendment added by the Comrn. mittee of the Whole.] But the portion so stricken off and added to another county, or formed in whole or in part into a new county, shall be holden for and obliged to pay its proportion of the indebtedness of the county from which it has been taken. FE]:IALE SUFFRAGE. Mr. CROSS introduced a petition, signed bv eighty-five women of Winne. bago county, protesting against woman suffrage. The petition was laid on the table, to be considered with the resolution offered by Mr. Goodhue, on the same subject. 1502 CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION WEDNESDAY, ADJOURNMENT. Mr. WELLS. iAr. President': I move that the Convention do now adjourn. The motion was agreed to. So the Convention (at four o'clock and fifty-seven minutes) adjourned. EIG-UTY-FIRSTDAY. WEDNESDAY, April 27,1870. The Convention met at nine o'clock A. m., and was called to order by the President. READING OF THE JOURNAL. The Secretary proceeded to read the journal of the last day's proceedings, when Mr. GOODELL. Mr. President: I move to- dispense with the further readiiag of the journal. I The motion was agreed to. LEAVE OF ABSENCE. QHARP. Mr. President: I desire -e of absence for the gentleman lqr. KiDg]. .11ted ne7n con. I lexander. Mr' Pres leave of absence 'R,ichland [Mr. API 27 80 EAE - RGEIG.10 stated, in the legislative article, that no special act for the removal of county seats should be passed, but that a general law may be passed by the Legislature, containing such restrictions and limitations as the experience of the State will justify, and that will be sufficient to prevent an undue agitation of these questions. I know that in a number of counties in my portion of the State, a great portion of the people are interested in the matter. I know it will be deemed by those citizens who desire a removal of the county seat, as a direct, immediate and effective bar. I, as much as any gentleman, would be opposed to the frequent agitation of these questions, but, it seems to me, we ought not to go further than the provision of the present Constitution. This section, as amended, substantially enacts that no county seat shall ever be removed, in this State, except upon a twothirds vote, which amounts to saying that no county seat shall be removed at all. I do not know of any counties where the question will probably arise, where the county seats have not been located twenty years. If we combine both these elements by saying that where a county seat has been located twenty years, and where the effort has been made to remove that county seat, two-thirds shall be necessary, there will be less injustice perpetrated; but to leave both these conditions as independent propositions, so that either of them shall make it necessary that there shall be a two-thirds vote, seems to me to be tying up the people with an unnecessary limitation, and I appeal to the gentlemen to say whether it is wise to take such a course or not. I do not know of any reason why a twothirds vote should be necessary to remove a county seat, when a simple majority may involve a county to any extent in debt for railway subscriptions, or for any other purpose, when a bare majority may elect a judge, a governor, a president, and decide the most momentous questions of public concern, when a bare m jority may perform any of the political functions which pertain to the State or the municipal government. I cannot see upon principle why such a limitation shou d be imposed in this matter. But if the Convention should deem it wise to impose such a limitation in any case, I appeal to it to say whether it is wise to impose it upon such a long and comprehensive list of cases'as will be included in this proviso. I hope the Convention will not concur in this amendment. If we are to make an arbitrary limitation, let it have as little stringency as may be, consistent with the public interest. Mr. TURNER. Mr. President: I do not see any reason that will apply to "fifty" that will not apply with equal force to "ten." With reference to this matter of the removal of a county seat, I must say that my people have given it no r cnsideretion whatever. The county seat of Stephenson county was established at Freeport in 1837, and I have never heard any person talk of removing it. Permanence is one of the elements of prosperity. I have been acquainted with some counties where the county seat has been a sort of traveling institution, moving from one place to another without a resting place. tNow, sir, notwithstanding the fact that we never have had any trouble in our Wcounty-and I suppose we never shall AP.RIL 27, 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1503 moved until the point to which it is proposed to be removed shall be fixed by law, and a majority of the voters shall vote in favor of such removal. I wish, sir, to retain this provision of the pres. ent Constitution-I do not wish to see any, the slightest change. This is the position I am pledged before the people of my county to sustain, and in the votes I shall cast I shall keep this matter in view, desiring to prevent any change, if possible. If change must be made, then I shall wish for as little as may be. In my county we have had some county-seat troubles, but it will be agreeable to both sides that no change be made on this subject in the Constitution. It is believed that the building of a railroad, now in course of construction, diagonally across the county, and throuoh the county seat, will practically dispose of the'controversy, but as the representative of constituents who are divided on this question of removing the county seat, it will be my duty and my pleasure to carfy out my pledge, to oppose all changes in this matter, thus neither side will be injured by my action, nor gain any advantage of the other by my vote. We have provided.in the legislative article that no special law should be passed for the removal of county seats. Some general law must be passed which will be applicable to all the counties in the State. As a matter of course, that general law will contain such limitations and provisions as the county seats in the State would approve of. This amounts to very much. Now, we propose in addition, to make this provision. As a matter of fact, sir, there is alway3 a conservative feeling in every county against the removal of the county seat. That amounts to something. Again, there is the objection that every tax-pkver will have to the expense incident to removal. That is something more; and these two considerations, in my judgment, will always give the county seat twenty to twenty-five per cent. the advaiitaae of the point to which it is proposed C, to remove. Now, then, -,ir, we propose to add two limitations. This is the same as saying that no county seat shall ever be removed hereafter, because tha't is precisely what have-I might illustrate my argument by that same county. It is divided very nearly in the ceintre by a little river. The north side of that river has a larger population than the south side. If the people on the north side were governed purely by selfish motives, they could remove the county seat to that side, which would accommodate them better. They have the power to do so. What would induce them to do it? Purely selfishness. They would disregard the best interests of a large minority-a minority almost equal to a majority-and by a small vote they could carry the county seat to a place where it would be more inconvenient for the great body of the people of the county than it is now. I think the same thing will apply to a great many other counties; and, therefore, the mp:lority rule is not always the best rule in regard to the removal of county seats. But, sir, the first thought with which I started out is this, that permanence in a county seat is wortli vastly more to it than any advantage that can be derived by changing from one place to another as often as the balance of population changes from one section:of the county to another. In a county where the seat of justice impermanently established,where the minds of the people rest upon that point, where there is no agitation, good buildings will be erected, secure jails, commodious court houses, with fire proof vaults, for the safe keeping of reco-rds, and the people rest in peace and security. There wilt be permanence, and prosperity fol. lows permanence in every case. Where the reverse occurs-when the countv seat is to-day in one place and to-morrow in another-when the public mind is aaitated on the subject, they will neither build court houses, nor jails, fire proof offices, or anything of the kind. . It is a mere matter of principle with me, and nothing more. I have no private axes to grind in the matter, and have expressed merely my general sentiments. Mr. SNYDER' Mr. President: I think that the aroumert the gentleman from Stephenson [Mr. Turner] has made -that of pernianence-is the worst of all the reasons he has iirged. What permanence can there be in such a country as the United States of America, which, as far as regards its population, is -very far i e_t 9 1501 COSTIT UTIOAL ()ONYETIO WEDNESDAY, The capital may be removed from here. I hope it may be as soon as possible. The Bedouins never think of robbing a man with whom they have partaken of hospitality, but the people of this town do not have the regard for a stranger that the Bedouin Arabs have, for unlike the Bedouins, they only know a stranger to rob him. I can establish that by the table of prices here. A man may go into almost any place in the town, I care not what the character of the business may be, and he will find that he pays twice as much, and often three times as much for what he gets, as in other places. Mr. GOODHUE. From the history of the past, would the gentleman dare to have the capital moved again? Mr. SNYDER. Yes, sir; because there is one consolation about it-we could not do worse. Well, we had to remove it the third time. But I will go on with the county seats. Go back to the same old Kaskaskia which died out, and is now a small collection of decaying hamlets, very little better than Old Sarum. Go to the county of Jackson, the place where my father first practiced at the bar, and in which Chief Jus. tice Breese made his first appearanceone of the most illustrious men in the judicial annals ofthe west. Brownsville, which was once the flourishing county seat of that county,!is no longer its seat, and the town, in fact, is scarcely known outside the county. So with the county of Franklin. The town of Frankfort was the county seat of that county. but long since ceased to be, and Benton has it now. We have just begun our great and glorious career in this country. We are a Her cules in his infancy, and are also engaged in strangling serpents-serpents of greed and corruption, which would destroy our people. I say we have not a tithe of the strength with which we should be blest. The old Roman republic, in its palmiest days, is an infant com-r n pared with what this great republic will sometime be. The Spanish empire and the great British empire, with its vast dependencies is small, compared with what the United States will be, if its career answers anything to the just and reasonable expectations that sensible men have formed of it. I say wearejust beginning. We have the most mixed, the most miscellaneous, the most varied, active, enterprising and restless population on this earth. Our very genius —the law of our population is-to constantly change, and assume new and different phlases. We shall constantly shift from place to place, one point outstripping another in the race ol prosperity. In these shiftings and movings and changes, and the constant access of immigration and increase of population, very many years will it yet require to render us homogeneous, and our population, commerce and business fixed and stationary. Sir, there is no fixing any place that will certainly suit the permanent convenience even of a precinct or township. And yet, gentlemen say they will fix the permanent centers of the population of a county now. Twenty years-we are to establish county seats that have continued twenty years, where they are now-can twenty years consecrate wrong? Does it consecrate an outrage? Can centuries consecrate a violation o f God Almighty's law of right, even against one man? I have prepared no argument, but will take the panoramic method used by the gentleman from Bureau [Mr. Whiting]. [Laughter.] Mr. WHITING. Mr. President: If the gentleman has no better success than I had, it will be no profit to him. Mr. SNYDER. Mr. President: I hope it will profit me, though I hoped my friend from Bureau [iNr. Whiting] would not succeed. Here now is a map of the county of Cass-an oblong strip of territory. The county seat is situated away down here, at the extreme edge of the county, and the people in all this part of the countyat the other end of it-have to travel some thirty miles to the county seat. Beardstown has no great population about it. On the contrary, the bulk of the population is, and must be on the other side of the county. There are unproductive sands, near and around Beardstown, and just on the bluffs next to it, we find nothing but what are called'barrens"-sterile and unproductive, whilst the eastern part of the county is as fine a body of land, - there is in the State. Look at Randolph county. Red Bud there is a neat flourishing town, with a very promising future of growth and prosperity, and will some day be larger than the county seat, being situated in one of the richest bodies of land in the State, and yet these people have to travel thirty-two miles to their county seat, which is perched like an eagle's nest away up here on the Mississippi river bluff. No statute of limitation, sir, can consecrate a violation of Almighty God's justice, established by the highest power of the Universe. I say, sir, it will be a very great outrage to these people, and a great outrage to the people of all other parts of the country, to prevent them from shifting their county seats to suit their convenience, population, business and prosperity. It will be highly impolitic to attempt to now fix geographical or other centers for a population like ours. Of those who are now advocating the permanency of these county seats and capitals, many will be among the first to cry out against the injustice done. I hope we will not fly in the face of the genius of our institutions, and ill the fAce of the democratic spirit of the government of our country. I hope we will tot commit so great a folly and inconsistency, as to say that in the most important things whichl concern our people, the law of democracy, the right of the people to govern themselves shall1 prevail, while in the mere matter of fixin.~ a county seat, or the higher and more just matter of redressing a wrong and establishing a right, the majority of the people shall not prevail. I hope no such outrage will be committed. Mr. McCOY. Mr. President: This question has been largely discussed in Committee of the Whole, and it is a very important question, and one that elicits about as mulch as or more feeling than ally other before the Convention. I am totally opposed to the limitation now proposed to be fastened on the people through the medium of this Convention, and I will assign my reasons. In the first place, I am opposed to the limitation of twenty years, and also to the limitation of ten years. I~t is a restric CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION 1501 WED11TEST)AY, Are we not, at this very time, agitating the removal of the capital of the United States? And, are not some of the best and wisest heads in the Mississippi valley advocating it? If the people were counted, a majority would be found in favor of the removal of the capital from Washington to some point in our midst. Justice requires it. Common sense requires it, The prosperity of the country, its future, requires it; for any man who can look five minutes into the future, and can guess with anything lik,-, an approach to certainty, will understand that not onlv the geographical centre, but the cente of business, the centre of commerce, the centre of population, is bound to be not very far from where we now stand. Talk of permanency in this connection, when a majority of the people of this country are for removing its national capi'tal! Why! the idea is simply ridiculous, I say, sir, that the old English borough system of England should teach us something. When in 1264 Simon de Montfo.,.t and the barons of England established the English parliament, and filrst called the burgesses together, they established buroughs, which were permanpncies-large towns representing what at that time were the commercial centers of the kingdom, representing the wealth, the population, and, if you please, the respectability, which was a great deal more regarded than it is among us, thank God! Time went on. Every man of intelligen'ee will remember the history of the bill of 1832. What were the great grievances a-ainst which the people of England complained? One, and perhaps the worst, was this abominable rotten borough system. Those boroughs which had been fixed upon as the centers of business and commerce, in the time of Simon de Montfort, which had been places of large population, of flourishing busineqs, and of importance, had entirely fallen, many of them, and passed away, and large towns had elsewhere arisen, -with a large and busy population. The old boroughs of wealth and importance had passed away entirely, and old stumps alone marked the spot where once flourished a town winch had sent its representatives to parliament. I believe the borough of old Sariiin was represented by two old DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. tio o te ivl ighs fhepepl.t. - tions of the State, and even from other States, and frauds may be committed upon the rights of the people in all future time in regard to the removal of county seats, this limitation should be enforced. Why, there is no kind of danger, and that argument has no force here, because we have settled in our organic law that a man, before he can be entitled to vote, must have resided in the State one year, and in the county nin(ty days, before he can exercise the elective franchise; and I take it that it will be be highly improbable that the people will import any particular number of voters into a county, and keep them ninety days for that lpecific purpose. Therefore, Mr. President, I am opposed to all these restrictions being placed upon the right of the people in this respect. As I view it, sir, this proposition is a serious question, especially that portion of it which provides that the place must be designated by law. When I come to vies the fact, that no point can be designated under this Constitution, if it is adopted in its present form, I propose to present a substitute for the whole section when the proper time shall come, which I will now read: Szc. 4. No county seat shall be removed until the specific proposition for removal, and the point to which the same is proposed to be removed, shall first have been submitted to a vote of the voters of the county, nor unless a majority of the voters of the county voting on the question shall have voted in favor of its removal to such point; and it sh all not be oftener submitted than once in te n years. Now, Mr. President, this gets over the objection that I believe there is in the section, and I believe that this is all the limitation that any free people should be placed under. I believe in the popular rights of the people. I believe that questions that are peculiarly of interest to themselves, they should have the right to determine by the voice of the people, and by the popular voice of the people, and not be restricted and tied up, as has been proposed here. I have been opposed to some of the limitations put in this Constitution. I have been opposed to giving the Governor the veto power, which makes hi a equivalent to one third of the whole of the people of the State. I am now for popularrights. One vote I cast-I wi'l allude to that, for it may be questioned hereafter, when I can have no opportunity to meet it, and I propose to make an allusion to it at this time I vwted ycsterday, giving Cook county the right of settling upon a course for appointing their justices of the peace. I had heard their complaints in that respect, and voted in favor of the section as a police regulation. I happened to be here a little over one year since, when the Legislature was in full bl\/st, and upon one evening, on that occasion, I found that there was to be a conclave. I was solicitous to know the reason of it and what it meant, and I found it was a political measure, and that it was for the purpose of organizing a metropolitan police to take possession of one of the towns of this State, for the purpose of regulating and controlling it. I am opposed to all such measures, and I voted yesterday as I did in order to assist the people of Cook county in keeping out of these secret organizations, and that what they want to do they may do T tion on the ci vil r ight s of the pe ople. Those rights now before this Convention that affect the people, are rights that belong to particular localities, and not to the State at large. We have serious limitations now in the Constitution. We have provided in the legislative article, that no county seat shall be removed, except by general law. The report of the comnmittee as passed upon in Comm itte e of the Whole, provides that the place to which the county seat shall be removed, shall be designated by law. Is not that aclose corporation? In the first place, no county seat shall be removed, except bv general law; in the next place, the point must be designated to which it is proposed to remove the county seat, and that must be by general law. Can any general law be shaped to designate the place to which a county seat shall be removed in any county? I submit that it cannot be done. First, we make a law for the removal of all county seats. That must be general. If MacoUpin, or any other county, proposes to remove its county seat, how by a general law can the spot in that county be designated to which it is proposed to remove it? I say, sir, it is a close corporation; and if that provision is passed without modification, Do county seat hereafter can be removed. I am opposed to the twenty years limitation. There is no reason why people should not have the right to remove their county seat merely because is has been located for twenty years; and there is no reason that can be assigned why the people should not have the right to pass on the removal of a county-seat merely because it has been located ten years. Gentlemen seem to act o-i the theory that the county property in a county seat, belongs to the people of that town in which the county seat is located. Such is not the case. The gentleman from Clark [Mr. Scholfield], in Committee of the Whole, used an argument of this kind-that the limitatioai act should have weight in this Convention. Does laches run against the king? Does laches run against the State? Are limitations to run against the rights of counties? I submit no kind of limitation can po,sibly run against the rights of counties to deal with their own property. Now, sir, this proposition of the removal of county seats has been in force since 1848. But it is claimed that it will be a hardship upon the people of the respective counties residing in county seats, foer the reason that many of the citizens of the towns in which the county seat is located, have gone to those towns with the view of the permanency of county seats. There is nlothing in that argument, for this reason: They went there under the rule of law, and of the organic law, that the removal of the county seats was always open to the people-of the counties, by- a majority vote, and when they put their property ill the county seats, they placed their property there, and took their chances upon it; so that they have nothing to complain of se far as that is concerned. But, Mr. President, it is argued by the gentleman from St. Clair [Mir. Underwood], that for the reason that these questions are vexed questions, and that voters may be imported from other po~ ~77 in broad daylight and in the face of the people. 1, by my vote, relieved the peo — ple of Chicago from havirg to send to other portions of the State to work up a metropolitan institution to regulate their internal affairs. I am therefore, opposed to all these limitations. [Here the hammer fell.] Mr. WELLS. Mr. President: I believe this matter has undergone such dis. cussion, that every gentleman fu-lly understands it, and therefore I move the previous question. The motion was not agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon striking.out "twenty" and inserting "ten," in the first amendment of the Committee of the Whole. Mr. SEDGWICK. Mr. President: Before the Convention procee ds to vote upon the pending question, I desire to ask the Convention to excuse me from voting, not only upon this but upon all questions relating to the removal of county seats in this article, for the reason that in my county, parties, perhaps, are about equally divided upon this question, each claiming to be in the ascendency. Both parties are my friends.' It was not made an issue at or before the election last fall, and consequently I do not wish to take the club against either party. Therefore, I hope the Convention will excuse me from voting upon that subject. Mr. TURNER. ~Mr. President: I move the gentleman be excused. Mr. ANTHONY. Mr. President: I object to the gentleman being excused. His situation is no more peculiar than that of the delegates from Cook county. I am not afraid of my county seat being removed from Chicago to Calumet, or any where else, but if a vote is cast by me upon this question, I would be just as much subject to criticism as the gentleman from DeKalb. The PRESIDEN [. The question is upon the motion to excuse, and is not debatable. Mr. ANTHONY. I wish to put myself right before the Convention The PRESIDENT. The question is upon excusing the gentleman from DeKalb [Mr. Sedgwick] from voting. A division was ordered. Tile Convention divided, when, there being thirty-two in the affirmative and twelve in the negative, the motion of Mr. Turner, to excuse Mr. Sedgwick from voting, was agreed to. Mr. GOODHUE. Mr. President: W-ill it be in order to move that the gentleman from Cook [Mr. Anthony] be excused on acoulnt of the competition for the county seat between Chicago and Calulmet? [Laughter.] The PRESIDENT. It will not be in order. Mr. CARY. Mr. President: I call fox a division of the question. The PRESIDENT. The question will be first taken on striking out. Mr. McCOY. Mr. President: I call for the yeas and nays. MKr. HAY. M~r. President: I would like to inquire whether after passing upon the amendments of the Committee of the Whole, it will be in order to move to strike out the whole proviso? The PRESIDENT. It will be in order when we come to consider the section. The yeas and nays were ordered, at d, APP.IL 27, 1870. 1505 150 ()NTTTOA OV-iNWDEDY upon filling the blank with "one hundred." The motion was not agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon filling the blank with "fifty." The motion was not agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon filling the blank with "thirty." The yeas and nays were ordered, and being taken, resulted-yeas, 25; nays, 42 as follows: So the motion of Mr. Underwood to fill the blank with "ten" was not agreed to. M/. BENJAMIN. Mr. President: I move to strike out in the third and fourth lin e s the following word s: " In all cases wher e a c oun ty s eat has been located twenty years and;" also, strike ou t, "twothirds," i n seventh line, and i nsert "threefifths." The PRESIDENT. The amendment is not now in order, as the Convention is dealing with amendments of the Committee of the Whole. After the Convention shall have passed through and concurred in, or failed to concur in, and amended the amendments proposed in the Committee of the Whole, it will be in order to move to amend the section. Mr. BENJAMIN. I was under the impression that the proviso was added by the committee. The PRESIDENT. The gentleman is mistaken. Mr. SCHOLFIELD. Is it in order to move to substitute another number? The PRESIDENT. It is not. An opportunity was given to suggest numbers, and the question was put upon all of them. The reason of the rule is apparent. Otherwise it would be impossible to put the question upon an infinite number. The question is upon concurrence in the amendment, as amended, and it will be declae on ured concurred in. Mr. McCOY. How is it amended? The PRESIDENT. It is stricken out. The quest io n is on the second amendment to the fourth section, by whi ch was in - serted after the w or d "to," in line six, the words " any poin t within th ree miles of." Mr. McCOY. Mr. President: I never heard of a case of an attempt to remove a county seat to a place within three miles. I wo uld like to hear the reason fo r tha t amendment. Mr. SCHOLFIELD. Mr. President: The object of insertin g "three miles," w as to prevent a repetition of a vote substantially the same, by a mere change of the name of the place to which it is proposed t o remo ve. Un der the report of the Committee ou Counties, the words we re "the same place." It is easy enough to defeat that provision, by laying out a new town within twenty rods of the old town, and voting for that, un der a n ew name. The object waso o exclude a onti nuation o f the same quarrel under different names. The question being on concurring in the amendment of the,Committee of the Whole, by which the words "any point within three miles of' were inserted after the word "to," in line six, A division was ordered. The committee divided, when, there being twenty. seven in the affirmative and eighteen in the negative, the amendment of the Com-. mittee of the Whole was agreed- to. The PRESIDENT. The question is tipon the fifth section, and the amends ments thereto. [Section five as amended by the Corn reittee of the Whole.] SE.C. 5. In each county there shall be elected the following county officers:s County judge, sheriff, county clerk, clerk of the circuit court, (who may be ex officio recorder of deeds, except in all counties having torty thousand and more inhabitants, in which counties a recorder of deeds shall be elected), treasurer, surveyor and coroner, each of whom shall enter upon the duties of their officee respectively, on the firt Monday of D~ecember after their election; and they shall hold their respective offices fr the tqrm of four years, Abbott, Ellis, Allen of Alx'n,Fox, Allen, of Crw'dGoodhue, Anthony, Hankins, Archer, Hart, Atkins, Hay, v Bayne, Hayes, Benjamin, McCoy, Browning, Merriam, Buxton, Parker, Cary, Perley, Coolbaugh, Peirce, Eldredge, Rice, Ross, Scholfield, Sherrill, Sutherland, Tincher, Tubbs, Vandeventer, Wendling, Wright-29. NAYS. Abbott, Dement, Allen of Alx'n, Eldredge, Allen of Crf'd, Ellis, Anderson, Forman, Anthony, Fox, Bayne, Gamble, Bowman, Goodhue, Browning, Hankins, Cary, Hay, Church, ildrup, Coolbaugh, Parker, Craig, Parks, Cross, Perley, Cummings, Peirce, ABSENT, OR NOT VOTING. Brown, Hanna, Robinson, Bryan, King, Sedgwick, Cameron, Neece, Skinner, Haines of CookPillsbury, -Truesdale, Haines of LakePoage, Mr. President-15. So the motion to strike out the number "twenty" was agreed to. The PRESIDENT. There is a blank to be fil.illed. Will the gentlemen suggest numbers? Mr. WHEATON. I suggest "one hundred." Mr. BUXTON. I suggest "two hundred." [Laughter.] Mr. WALL. I suggest "one hundred and fifty." Mr. BENJAMKIN. I suggest thirty. Mr. UNDERWOOD. I suggest "ten." The PRESIDENT. That has already been suggested. The question is on filling the blank with "two hundred." The yeas and nays were ordered, and being taken, resulted-yeas, 21, nays, 46 -as follows: ABSENT, OR NOT VOTING. Brown, Hart, Robinson, Bryan, King, Sedgwick, Cameron, Neece, Skinner, Haines of Cook, Pillsbury, Truesdale, Haines of L'k.,Poage, Mr. President-16. Hanna, So the motion of Mr. Benjamin to fill the blank with "thirty," was not agreed to. Mr. ENGLISH. Mr. President: Is it now in order to suggest another number to fill the blank? The PRESIDENT. It is not in order. A number is pending. The question is on filling the blank with "tea." .YA.,Mr. McCOY. Mr. President: I call for the yeas and nays. The yeas and nays were ordered, and being taken, resulted-yeas, 16, nays, 50 — as follows: Abbott, Cary, Allen, of Alex. Ellis, Anthony, Goodhue, Atkins, Harwood, Benjamin, McCoy, Bromwell, Merriam, Buxton, Parker, Allen of Crfd. Anderson, Archer, Bayne, Bowman, Browning, Church, Cody, Coolbaugh, Craig, Cross Cummings, Dement, Eldred,e, English, Forman, Abbott, Ellis, Allen of Alex.,Forman, Allen of Crfd. Fox, Anderson, Goodell, Anthony, Goodhue Archer, Hankins, Atkins, Hart, Benjamin Harwood, Bromwell, Hay, Browning, Hayves, Buxton, Hildrup, Cary, McCoy, Church, McDowell, Cody, Medillb Coolbaugh, Merriam, Cross, Moore, Eldredge, Parker, Brown, King, Sedgwick, Bryan, Neece Skinner, Cameron, Pillsbury, Truesdale, Haines of Co'k,Poage, Wells, Haines of L'k, Robinson, Mr. President-17. Hanna, Ross. 1506 CONSTITUTIONAL CONYENTION WF,DNF,SD.&Y, being taken, resulted-yeas 39; nays 29 -as follows: YEA'S. Sharp, Snyder, Springer, Turner, Underwood, Wagner, Wait, Wall, Washburn, Wells, Wheaton, Whiting, Wilson 39. 'YIMAS. Harwood, .layes, . ICCOY, . ledowell, Medill, Merriam, Moore, Rice, Archer, Atkins, Benjamin, Bromwell, Buxton, Cody, English, Fuller' Goodell, Ross, Beholfi6l.d, Sherrill,, _, Snyder, Sutherland, Tubbs, Vandeventer, Wendling-25. NAYS. Forman, Fuller, Gamble, Goodell. Harwood, Hildrup, McDowell, Medill, Moore, Parks, Anderson, Bowman, Bromwell, Church, Codly, - Craig, Cross, Cummings, Dement, English, Sharp,'i Springer, Vincer, Turner,, LTnder'wood, Wagner, wait, wall, Washburn, Wells, Wheaton, Whiting, Wilson,' Wrighf-42. YEA.S. Perley, Sherrill, Tincher, wait, wall, Washburn, Wheaton-21. YEA.S. Bayne, Bowman,, Craig, Cummingi3, Dement, English, Fuller, Gamble, Rice, Scholfield. Sherrill,I Springer, Turner, Underwood, Wagner, Wr -ht16. 19 NA6yS. Fox, Fuller, Goodell, Hankins, laryl _I Hayes, Hifdriip. McDowell, Medill, Moore, Parks, Peirce, Rice, Ross, Beholfield, Sharp, Snyder, Springer, Sutherland, Tubbs, Turner, Underwood, Vandeventer, Wagner, Wefls, - Wenciling, Whiting, Wilson.Wright'-46. NA,YS. Parks, Perley:, Peirce, Sharp, Snyder, Sutherland, Tincher, Tubbs, Vandeventer, Wait, war,, Wasfiburn, Wendling, Wheaton, Whiting, Wilson-50. A,BSENT OR NOT Brown, Hanna, Bryan, King, Cameron, Neee, Gamble, Pillsbury, Haines ofCook,Poage, Haines of Lake VOTING. Robinson, Sedgwick, Skinner, Truesdale, .Ifr. President-16. A.BSENt,,OR NOT VOTING. So the motion of Mr. Buxton, to fill the blank with "two hundred," was not agreed to. The PRESIDENT. TJie question is APRIL 27, 1870. DEBATES A~ND PRO()EEDIGS. 1507 provide for such a reduction of fees of these officers, as that they shall receive no more than a reasonable compensation for the work they perform. I claim that is the true principle, and the only principle we should seek to inaugurate in this Constitution. Provide such a fee bill as will simply compensate,the officer for services rendered, and give him the fees. Let him look after them, and make no provision which looks to excess of fees, which may go into a county treasury. Make no provision that looks to providing a fee bill in excess of what the officer honestly earns and is entitled to. That was the principle we sought to recognize in the eighth section of this article, in the Committee of the Whole; and it occurs to me, meets fully and covers the whole ground that we ought to attempt to cover in a constitutional provision. But if the Convention shall adhere to the system attempted to be inaugurated in the sixth section, they will find that by this provision, allowing for a multiplic'-t tion of these offices, for electing a new ofrficer known as a recorder, separating that from either the county or the circuit clerk's office-we only provide, by so doing, for an increase of compensation to be allowed these officers. Now, how must it strike every man who thinks upon the subject a moment? If we adopt this system attempted to be inaugurated in the sixth section of the article, and provide for a salary to be paid out of the fees or the county treasury, every one of these officers we provide for must have that salary or some salary paid him as chief of the office, and must be paid some salary corresponding to the dignity of that situation, the county providing the necessary assistants, and deputies to run the office in addition, What will be the result of that practically? The principal will not himself, personally, discharge the duties of the office, but will ask for and obtain enough additional help to run the office, without doing any of the manual service or labor required. The salary will be a mere perquisite to the principal of the office, which will be run by clerks and deputies, who will have to be provided for out of the county treasury. Now, does it not strike everybody that to inaugurate economy, as these principa l officers will be "boss," they should "boss" both the clerk's and the recorder's offices? Let the recorder provide a deputy to run the recorder's office, if the necessities of the case demand it, and so with the clerk's office. He will occupy the place of a principal, and we will save the cost of one principal officer. The salary will be a perquisite to an unnecessary officer.o Instead of paying $2,500 or $4,000 to a recorder, if we combine the offices we dispense with one of these high salaries. He will detail a clerk to do the service under him, whom he can employ for $700 or $800, which amount we thus save to the county treasury. If this section is adopted everybody will see that such will be the operation of it. We necessarily provide for an additional officer who must be paid a salary corresponding to the duties of his office, which will be a mere perquisite, the duties being pert formed by a mere assistant or deputy. Now, with respect to Cook county, I am willing to make an exception. The vast amount of business required to be performed in that county requires a re except the office of treasurer, sheriff and coroner, who shall hold their office for two years, and until their successors shall be elected and qualified. [Section five as reported by the Standing Committee.] SEc. 5. In each county there shall be elected the following county officers: County judge, county attorney, sheriff, county clerk, clerk ofthe circuit court, (who shall be ex e/~eo recorder of deeds), treasurer, surveyor and coroner, each of whom shall hold their respective offices for the term of two years, and until their successors shall be elected and qualified. In counties not adopting township organization, in addition to the above officers there shall be elected three county commissioners, who shall have charge of the fiscal affairs of the county. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the amendment to section five, by which the word "shall" after the word "who," in the second line was stricken out, and the word "may" inserted, and it will be declared concurred in. The question is upon the amendment by which the words "county attorney" were stricken out; and it will be declared concurred in. The question is upon the third amendment, by which was inserted after the word "deeds," in the third line, the following: "except in all counties having forty thousand and more inhabitants, in which counties a recorder of deeds shall be elected." Mr. WHEATON. Mr. President: I move to strike out the word "forty," and insert "one hundred." By section six of this article it is provided that in counties containing thirty thousand, and not exceeding fifty thousand inhabitants, two thousand five hundred dollars may be allowed to every county officer. Therefore, in counties of forty thousand inhabitants, where a circuit clerk can do the entire business of circuit clerk and recorder, he ought not to have more than two thousand five hundred dollars for both duties, otherwise the office may be divided by the Legislature, for the benefit of some local politician, or some political party, at an expense to the people of two thousand five hundred dollars. I, therefore, am opposed, Mr. President, to this amendment put in by the Committee of the Whole, so that in my county and every other county of forty thousand there can be created a new office where there is no earthly necessity for it. I hope thle Convention will strike it out. In counties like Cook, where it is necessary, perhaps, that this office should be divided, where one man cannot perform the duties of both offices, it would be well enough that there should be a provision in the Constitution reaching such county; but in smaller counties —counties of forty thousand inhabitants —it is entirely unnecessary. Mr. HAY. Mr. President: I hope the amendment of the gentleman from Kane [Mr. Wheaton] will be adopted. It it is intended by the Convention to adhere to the system attempted to be inaugurated in this sixth section of this article, it is the more necessary that this amendment should prevail. I very much feared, and so expressed my fears, when that section was under discussion in Committee of the Whole, that the effect $f it would be wholly to defeat the purposes we all had in view, in inaugurating a low system of fees for our county officers. 1Now, it is undoubtedly true that the true principle for us to inaugurate, is APRIL 27, 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1507 sponsible head undoubtedly. But there is no such necessity as this whatever in any of the other counties of this State. Mr. UNDERWOOD. Mr. President: If gentlemen will take the different sections and compare them, they will find that this is about as good a provision as they can have. Section eight allows the Legislature to grade fees in three different classes in different counties. It will enable the Legislature, in the large counties to make the fees one-half or one-third what they now are, as in Cook county. They might make them one-half in St. Clair county. Now, sir, section six provides that the county board shall fix the compensation of county officers out of the fees collected, not to exceed, in counties where they have under 50,000, the sum of $2,500. In counties not exceeding 50,000 they can put it at such rates as they think proper. Here are two officers-the recorders and the clerk. In the county whe;ri-> live those two offices are worth upwards of $10,000. Under this system they could reduce one-half, and could be run under the ultirmatum allowing each $2,500. Mr. WHEATON. Mr. President: Could they not much better, for the people of the county, require the circuit clerk to perform the duties of both offices, and pay him $2,500 for both? Mr. UNDERWOOD. Mr. President: I have no doubt they might appoint a man to superintend the duties of half a dozen county officers, and he might get persons under him at a very low compensation, not elected by the people, and in that way save money. But the true principle is, that in each office there should be one head elected by the people, not appointed by the principal man to play the agreeable about the establishment, while the hard labor is to be done by the subordinates. 1 think the man selected by the people should be the man who does the work and gets the compensation. The compensation should be such as would require him to do the work, and the board of commissioners or supervisors if they are men of sense, will fix the compensation such as to make him work — not a compensation to enable him to be an ornamental clerk, while the deputies at starving wages do the labors If the county boards are discreet men, and of ordinary judgment (and they usually are competent men and deeply interested in county affairs), they will grade compensation at such rates as reason and rig'ht require. Now} sir, this thing is left where it ought to be. First, with the Legislature to grads the fees as low as they can mn different counties; then, in the second place, with the local authorities, to grade, in inserting a certain salary for these several offices. I had hoped that we had had enough of discussion and controversy about this, and other provisions before the Convention. If this thing is to kc renewed over and over again, a/ter the matter has been agreed upon in C~onvention. if it is to be opened ag ain by some pertinacious mlember then we will have to sit here during the whole summler. Yesterday, we sent a propo)sition to the same effect to the CDom:mittee on PRevision -that in counties having forty thousand population, there shall be a recorder.,In 1508 ()OSTITUTIONAL OOYENTIO WEDSDAY, The question is upon the third amendment proposed by the committee to insert, after the word "whom," in the fifth line, the words "shall enter upon the duties of their offices, respectively, on the first Monday in December, after the elec tion, and they shall hold" Mr. CODY. Mr. President: I under stand there is one amendment passed over, unless it is held that it is a single amendment, and, in that case, I wish to add a few words. The PRESIDENT. There was no vote on it, and it is still competent to call for a division, which would entitle the gentleman to move an amendment. Mr. CODY. Mr. President: I find, looking at the last census, that the amendment making the number forty thousand would probably include some nine or ten counties more. There are Adams, Cook, LaSalle, Madison, Peoria, -perhaps Knox, Pike and others, which are fixed by the census of 1865. I desire, sir, to add, after the word "elected," the words, "at the general election in 1872," so that it shall not affect the present incumbents in these counties. That I suppose to be the intention of the, Convention, and that there is no doubt the members suppose they have already done. But it would be better to fix it beyond a doubt. When this was adopted, there was considerable confusion, and the reading was ebjected to, on t he ground that it had already been read, and the objection was sustained. I move, then, in the fifth section, after the word "elected," to insert,'after the general election in 1872." This will protect the present incumbents of the offices of circuit clerk and recorder in all such counties. Mr. ANTHONY. Mr. President: If the gentleman will add, further, that this Constitution shall not take effect and be in force until 1872, there will, perhaps, be some consistency about it. But for this Convention to perpetuate men in office, when they are merely ex ohio officers at that, looks, it seems to me, as if we are making a Constitution for nobody but office holders. Mr. CODY. Mr. President: Does the gentleman propose that as an amendment to mine? I ask that I may know whether to accept or not. Mr. ANTHONY. Mr. President: I have not made the motion yet, but it would be in perfect harmony with the proposition of the gentleman from DuPage [[Mr. Cody.] This matter having been discussed largely yesterday, I do not wish to renew the debate. But I wish the Convention to understand that it is a direct proposition to this Convention, to make a Constitution for office holders, and not for the people. That is all there is of it. It is to the effect that a man, when he gets into office, has a vested right in his office,b and is to be protected in it by an organic law. Mr. UNDERWOOD. Mr. President: Did we not settle[that question yesterday? Mr. ANTHONY. Mr. President: I move to lay the amendment of the gen- t, tieman fram DuPage [Mr. Cody] on the table. Mr. CODY. Mr. President: I call for the yeas and nays. The Secretary read the amendment offered by Mr. Cody, as follows: NAYS. Abbott, Fuller, /llenofCCwvfd, Gamble, Anderson, Goodell, Archer, Goodhue, Atkins, Hankins, Benjamin, Hart, Bromwell, Harwood, Browning, Hildrup, Church, McDowell, Cody, Merriam, Craig, Moore, Cummings, Parker, Dement, Perley, Eldredge, Peirce, Ellis, Poage, English, Ross, Forman, Sedgwick, Fox, Sharp, ABSENT, OR NOT VOTING. Coolbaugh, Pillsbury, Cross, Rice, Hain es of L'ke,Robinson, Hanna, Skinner, King, Truesdale, Neece, Mr. President-18. the Committee of the Whole, after a very full and fair discussion, the gentleman presenting all the arguments he could at that time to the committee, we settl ed agai n upon forty thousand. The gentle man makes battle again, for the third time, and if this course is to be pursued, compelling a reiteration of the same thing indefinitely, this body will not only be disagreeable, but nobody will have any confidence in any decision we may reach. The gentleman ought to let this matter now rest. If the subsequent sec tions need modifications, let them be mod ified, but in counties having forty thou sand population, where the recorder and clerk ought to be separate, let us have them so, and not go back to the one-man principle, which is wrong. Mr. ARCHER. I move the previous question. The motion for the previous question ::~was agreed to, and the main question or Mr. WHEATON. I call for the yeas an4 nays. I want to see who really is in favor of reducing fees. Air. SHARP. I call for a division of the question. Mr. HAINES, of Cook. I would like to be excused from voting on this ques tion. I would like to return good for evil; for as gentlemen undertook to thrust down our throats yesterday, what we did not want, I do not want so to act towards them now. Mr. CARY. There are only six or eight counties in the State really interested, and if we were to excuse those not inter ested, we would excuse nearly the whole Convention. Mr. WENDLING. When a gentleman asks to be excused, I see no good reason for refusing him. The PRESIDENT. The question is on excusing the gentleman from Cook [Mr. Haines]. The motion was agreed to. The yeas and nays were ordered, and, being taken, resuilted-yeas, 20, yeas, 42 — as follows; So the motion of Mr. Anthony to lay on the table the amendment offered by Mr. Cody, was not agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is on the adoption of the amendment, and the amendment will be declared agreed to. The question is on the fourth amendment, by which the words "shall enter upon the duties of their offices, respectively, on the first Monday of December, after their election, and they," after the word "whom." Mr. ATKINS. Mr. President: Is an amendment in order? The PRESIDENT. An amendment to the amendment is in order. Mr. ATKINS. Then I submit the following; Insert at the end of line four the following: "And in counties not under township organization, having forty thousand or more inhabitants, the General Assembly may by law provide for the election of a collector of State and county revenue." The PRESIDENT. The amendment proposed by the gentleman from Morgan [Mr. Atkins] is not an amendment to the amendment, but to the section. It will be in order when the Convention shall come to the consideration of the section. The question is upon the fifth i mendment, by which the word "two" was stricken out from the fifth line and the word "four" inserted. Mr. ROSS. l r. President: I call for the yeas and nays on that. The yeas and nays were ordered, and being taken, resulted —yeas, 59, nays, 11 -as follows: Coolbaugh, Hakyes, Craig, Medill, Eldredge, Merriam, Ellis, Parker, Hart, Poage, Harwood, Scholfeld, NAYS. Abbott, Dement, Allen of Alex, English' Allen, of Cr'fd,Forman, Anderson, Fuller, Archer, Gamble Atkins, Goodell, Bayne, Goodhue, Benjamin, Hankins, Bowman, McDowell, Bromwell, Moore, Browning,. Parks, Buxton, Peirce, Cross, Rice, Cummings, Sharp, ABSENT, OR NOT VOTING. Anthony, Haines of CookPerley, Brown, Haines of LakePillsbury, Bryan, Hanna, Robinson, Cameron, Hildrup, Ross, Cary, King, Skinner, Church, McCoy, Truesdale, Fox, Neece, Mr. President-21. So the motion of Mr. Wheaton to strike out "40,000" was not agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon concurrence with the amendment, and it is declared agreed to,, Abbott, Fuller, Scholfield, Allen of Crwfd,Gamble, Sedgwick, Anthony, Goodell, Sharp, Archer, Goodhue, Sherrill, Atkins, Haines of CookSnyder, Bayne, Hart, Springer, Benjamin, Harwood, Sutherland, Bromwell, H ~y, Tincher, Browning, Hayes, Tubbs, Buxton, McCoy, Turner, Cary, McDowell, t Underwood, w 1508 CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION W.EDN.ESDAY, Insert after the word "elected" in the fourth line, the followidg: "At the general election in 1872.11 The, yeas and nays were then taken, and resulted-yeas 10, nays 54-as follows: YEAS. Allen, of Alx. Hay, ,knthony, Hayes, Bowman, mcco,y, Haine,s,of Cook Madill, Scholfield, Whiting-10. Sherrill, Snyder Springer, Slitherlaud, Tincher, Tubbs, Turner, U.derwood, Vandeventer, Wagner, Waft, wall' Washburn, Wells, Wendling, Wheaton, Wilson, IVrighf-54. Bayne, Brown, Bryan, Buxton, Cameron, Cary, YEAS. Sedgwick, Tincher, Turner Vandeventer, wfiit, Wheaton-20. Sherrill, Snyder, Springei-, Suthe -rla -nd, Tubbs, Underwood, Wagner, Wal, Washburn, wells, Wendliiig, WhitinZ, -lyi1son. WrightL42. YEAS. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. Church Mei, Vneetr it huadihbtns he huadCr,Pre, Vueetr fifty thousand inhabitants; three thousand dollars, in counties containing fifty and not exceeding seventy thousand inhabitants; thirty-five hundred dollars, in counties con taining seventy and not exceeding one hun dred thousand inhabitants; and four thous dollars, in counties containing over one hun dred thousand and not exceeding two hun dred and fifty thousand inhabitants; and not more than one thousand dollars additional salary for each additional one hundred thous and inhabitants: Provided, That the com pensation of no officer shall be increascd or diminished during his term of office. All fees or allowances by them received, in excess of their said compensation, shall be paid into the county treasury. Mr. CODY. Mr. President: The word "same" in the third line, I suppose was intended to mean "compensation." The amendment was hastily adopted, and I think it can mean nothing else. I move to strike out the word "same," and insert "the said compensation." Mr. HAY. Mr. President: Will not the amendment mar the effect of the sec tion, if it should be adopted? The object of the words in the section seems to be to require that the clerk hire and expenses shall be paid only out of the fees collected Mr. CODY. Mr. President: Will the gentleman take into consideration the size of counties in this State? Does he not know that there will be counties where no officer can be obtained to take the of fice, where no one can run the office and pay the expenses, if it is left as he pro poses? It was to avoid that very con struction that I desired the amendment to be made. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the amendment of the gentleman from DuPage [Mr. Codyl, to strike out 'the same," and insert "compensation." A division was ordered. I The Convention divided, when, there being twenty two in the affirmative and twenty-one in the negative, the amend ment offered by Mr. Cody was agreed to. . The PRESIDENT. The question is upon concurrence with the amendment of the Comrnmittee of the Whole. Mr. WASHBURN. Mr. President: I move to strike out the words "and other expenses," in the seventh line. I do not know what they are intended to refer to, but there is a generality, an indefinitehness, about them that might lead to many and great abuses. Unless there is some one who can inform me what these "other expenses" mean, and can give a good reason for retaining then, I would prefer that they have no place in our Constitution. The yeas and nays were ordered, and being taken, resulted-yeas, 35; nays, 31 -as follows: ABSENT, OR NOT VOTING. Brown, Hildrup, Robinson, Bryan- King, Skinner, Cameron, Neece, Truesdale, Haines of Lake,Pillsbury, Mr. President-13. Hanna, So net f the amendment of the Committee of the Whole, striking out the word' two," and inser ting the wo rd " four," was agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon concurrence with the Committee of the Whole, in its sixth amendment, by whi ch the wo rds, " except the office s of treasurer, sheriff and coroner, who shall hol d thei r off ices for two years," were in serted aftrer the word "years." The amendment was agreed to. T he PRESIDENT. The question is upon the seven th amendment, by which th e words "in counties not adopting town ship org anization, in addition to the above officers, there shall be created three county commissioners, who shall have charge of th e fiscal affairs of tihe count y," wer e stricken out. The amendment was agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is upo n efi aendm the first amendment of the report of the committ ee in the s ixth section, by which was inserted after the word "offi cers," the following: "with the amount of their necessary clerk hire, stationery, fuel and other expenses; and in all cases, where fees are provided for, the same shall be paid only out of, and shall, in no other instance exceed the fees actually collected. They" [S ction six, as reported by the stand ing committee:,] SEc. 6. The county board shall fix the com pensation of all county officers; but shall not allow either of them more per annum than fifteen hundred dollars, in countes not ex ceeding twenty thousand inhabitants; two thousand dollars in counties containing twen ty and not exceeding thirty thousand inhabi tants- twenty-five hundred dollars in coun ties containing thirty and not exceeding fifty thousand inhabitants; three thousand dollars in counties containing fifty and not exceeding seventy thousand inhabitants; thirty-five hundred dollars in counties containing seventy and not exceeding one hundred thousand inhabitants; and tour thousand dollars in counties containing over one hundred thoiusand inhabitants-in addition to their necessary clerk hire, stationery and fuel. All fees or allowances by them received, in excess of their salary, shall be paid into the county treasury. [Section six, as amended by the Committee of the Whole:] SEC. 6. The counts board shall fix: the compensation of all county officers, with the amount of their necessary clerk hire, stationery, fuel and other expenses and in all eases whlere fees are provided fir, the same shall be paid only out oft and shall in no instance exceed the fees actually collected. They Shall not allow either of them more per annum than fifteen hundred dollars, in counties not exceeding twenty thousand inhabitants; two thousand dollars in counties containing twenty and not >exeeding thirty thousand inihabitants; twenty-five hundred d~ollars in counties containing thirty and nlot e~xceeding~ 878 Insert after the word "office," in the fif teenth line, the following: "In counties hav ing one hundred thousand inhabitants, the county board shall fix the compensation of all the present officers and o f thei r successors, as herein above provided." Mr. HAYES. I do not propose to re new the discussion which we had upon yesterday in regard to matters pertaining. to Cook county. I mert ly wish to pro vide that in a class of counties in the State of which Cook county is one-per haps the -only one —a reduction should be made in the compensation of officers where it is excessive. We have, without hesitation, adopted provisions reducing the pay of all the State officers, of the judges of the supreme court (their consti tutional pay, whatever their actual pay may be) and of all the judges of the cir cuit courts. That is ny understanding. I wish now to kniow whether' upon a vote of this Convention, after all the technical objections raised by the gentle man from Adams [Mr. Browning] and others on yesterday,have been obviated,the Convention will deny the people of Cook county the right to have economy and reform in their county affairs. We wish to know. We wish to know whethel it is the sense of this Convention that a county of one hundred thousand inhabitants shall be compelled to lose fifty thousand or one hundred thousand dollars per year until the time of the present incumbents shall expire, while the Governor and other high officers, and the judges of the courts, are compelled to suffer a reduction? If so, the delegates from Cook county will have done their duty to their constituents. They were elected uponx pledges that they would attempt to obtain of the Convention a reduction of the compensation of their county officers, and all we ask is that the Convention carry out what was sought in:that electioni, Fox, Rice, Gamble, Ross, Goodell, Sedgwick, Haines of CookSherrill, Hankins, Sutherland, Hay, Turner, McCoy, Wagner, Medill, Wait Merriam, Washburn, Moore, Wendling, Parks, Wilson-35. Perley, APP.IL 27, 1870. 1509 Church, Cody, Craig, Cross, Cummings, Eldredge, Ellis, English, Forman, Medill, Merriam, Moore, Parks, Parker. Perley Peirce,' Poaze. Rice, Vandeventer, Wagner, wait, Washburn, Wells, Wendling, Wheaton, Wright-59. Cary, Church, Cody, Craig, Cross, Parker, Peirce, Poaze. Sch]Aeld, Vaiideventer, Wall., Whitilng, Wright-31. A13SENT, OR NOT VOTING. Brown, Hanna, Bryan, I Hildrup, Cameron, Kinz. Eldredge, Nberc, Ellis, Pillsbury, Haines of LakeRobinron, Skinner, Truesdale, Wells, Wheaton, Mr. Presideni-17. W.&YS. Allen of Alex.,Dement, Anderson, Fox, Bowman, Hankins, C.olbaugh, Ross, Wall, Wiiti. Wilson!,-ll. So the amendment offered by Mr. Washburn was agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question ig on concurrence, and it will be declared goncurred in as amended. The question is upon the second amendment to the section, by which is inserted at the end of the eleventh line of the report of the Committee of the Whole, the words "and not exceeding 250,000 inhabitants, and not more than $1,000 additional salary for each additional 100,000" is inserted and it will be declared agreed to. The question is on the third amendment, by which was stricken out, "and in addition to their necessary clerk hire and stationery," and inserted -provided that the compensation of no officer shall be increased or diminished during his term of office;" audit will be declared agreed to., Mr. HAYES. I move this amendment to the amendment. The Secretary read the amendment offered by Mr. Hayes, as follows: YEAS. Abbott,, Anderson, A,rcher, B.yne, Bromwell, BroWD'ng, Buxton,I Coolbaugh, Cumming,s, Dement, En-lish, Forman NAYS. Allen of Alex. Fuller, Allen of Crfd.,'Goodliue, Antiony, Hart, Atk ns,. Tiarwood, Ben &min, Hayes, owman, I McDowell, Shar-D Snyd7er, Springer, "incher, '.'ubbs, 'Jnderwood, CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION The people- of that county expect that some attention will be paid to their wishes-a county that pays one-fifth of the revenue of the State a county which is laboring under severe burdens of t xation, where the people desire to introduce reform in the pay of their county officers.C If the county of Cook has incurred the displeasure of the Convention ana of the people of the State, and if the Convention is determined to show that displeas ure by compelling that county to pay one hundred thousand dollars more per year than they ought to pay, we will be compelled to submit. Their representatives on this floor will at least have done their duty. They will have done all in their power to obtain justice for their constituents. iMr. CARY. I will ask the gentleman if lines ten and eleven of this section do not fix everythiingrequired by the amendment he proposes? Mr. HAYES. I will answer that they do not accomplish the object which we have in view. There- is a provision in section seven, that the "compensation herein provided shall apply only to officers hereafter elected." In section six there is aprovi sion th at "the compen sa tion of no officer shall be increased or di minished during his term of office." These provisions would prevent any reduction of the compensation of the present incambents. Therefore, I propose the amendment in order that the pay of these officers in the counties of the class speci fied, now so excessive in amount, shall be reduced immediately, in accordance with the wishes of the people, and the pledges of all the office-holders in the county, with few exceptions. Now, we ask the Convention to do that which the people of that county demand, when they can do so in a manner free ' from objections heretofore raised. The PRESIDENT. The Secretary will read the amendment. The Secretary read the amendment of fered by Mr. Hayes, as follows: Insert after the word "office" in fifteenth line, the following: "In counties having one hundred thousand inhabitants, the county board shall fixI the compensation of all the present officers, and of their successors, as herein above provided.' M~r. GOODHUE. Mr. President: As this matter was very fully discussed yes terda~y, I move to lay the amendment or the table. Mr. HAIYES. Mr. President: I call fo~ the yeas and nays. The PRESIDENT. The question L, upon the motion to lay the amendment or the table. Upon this question the yeas an~ nays are demanded. Mr. ARCHER. Mr. President: ] wrould like to hear the amendment read The Secretary reads the amendment of fered by Mir. H~ayes, as follows: Insert after the word "officers in the fifteentl line, the following:. "In counties having on hundred thousand inhabitants, the count. board shall fix: the compensation of all th present officerss and of their successors, a herein above provided. Mr. TURNER. Mr. Presidenlt: Wh. not put in Cook county? The-PRESIDENT. The question i on the motion to lay the amendment ox the table. The yeas and nays were ordered, and being taken, resulted — yas 29, nays 44 .-as follows: Allen of C'fd. Atkins, Bayne, Benjamin, Cary, Church, Cody, Cross, Cummings, Eldredge, do not object, if it will not come out of my time. Mr. HAYES. The gentleman ha s m isapprehe nded my remarks. I did not charge the Convention with hosti l i ty to Cook county, but I inquired o f the Conven tion whether they wou ld show by their action on this proposition that they were not hostile to th e in terest s of Cook county. I made no charges. Mr. TURNER. Why have I not just as good a right to come down here, and say my people demand a certain thing, and, if the gentleman from Cook [Mir. Hayes] votes against it, to charge him with hostility to me and my county, be. cause I desire that measure passed? I protest that it is not right. It is not treating gentleme n fairly, to, when the y have attempted to do all they can conscientiously do to favor a county, because it is a great and growing county, cast these insinuations upon them. Now, the cry is that we are fighting against Cook county, when, in fact, we are merely opposing a measure which is designed to take from the present officers of that county their tees, and put them into the treasury of Cook county. It is a significant fact, that, until driven to the wall, until the thing had been exposed, in all its deformity and nakedness, there was not a single officer in Cook county whose fees it was hinted or intimated, by any member of Cook county, should be disturbed, except those of one man. Mr. HAYES. Mr. President: I ask leave to interrupt the gentleman again. I deny the statement of the gentleman. I think he is laboring under a misapprehension. As far as I am concerned, it is certainly not true. He misunderstood. Mr. TURNER. I say, sir, there has not been anything in these reports there was not anything done or said until yesterday, and until after the vote was takenin regard to the recorder of Cook county and lowering his fees, excepting as the fees of other officers throughout the State should be reduced. We are all in favor of cutting down these fees. We are not in favor of singling out an individual in a single county, and providing that the fees of that individual officer shall be taken from him and paid into the county treasury for a couple of years; for I take the same position that the gentleman from Vermilion [Mr. Tincher] took yesterday, that when an officer is elected to an office, he is elected with the expectation that he swill get the fees and emoluments of that office. Now, what do we do? We take the fees out of the hands of the offcers to put them 1into the county treasury of Cook county. We do not save a suitor from the payment of a single dollar. We do not save the men who have the deeds recorded a single farthing. We merely take it out of the hands of the officers, who, by the laws, are entitled to it, and put into the treasury of Cook county. I am opposed entirely to this thing. I want to attain a reduction of fees just as quickly as we can, but let us do it all over the State. I will say to gentlemen, that if there was one thing well understood and agreed to in the Committee on the Judiciary, it was that we made certain concessions to C ook county, with a full, fair, explicit understanding that the article reported was not to be amended. Nqo~, after they have :got all they wanted a'nd all that we So the motion of Mr. Goodhue, to lay on the table the amendment offered by pMr. Hayes, was not agreed to. Mr. TURNER. Mr. President: I move to amend by striking out the words, "in counties having over one hundred thousand." I should not have made any remarks in making my motion, if it had not been for the reflection that seemed to have been cast by the gentleman from Cook [Mr. Hayes] upon this Convention, charging it with hostility to Cook county. Sir, if there is one thing in this world that we have sacrificed ourselves for, it has been for Cook county. The united delegation from that county asked us to violate one of the fundamental principles of our government, by providing that justices of the peace shall not be elected by the people, and we voted to let them be appointed, and in the manner suggested by the Cook county delegation; while a portion of that delegation voted against allowing any other part of the State to have more than one judge to 100,000 population, we have generously given Cook county one judge to 30,000 and so on-all the way through. We have yielded in various ways-yielding, time after time, to what seemed to be the demands of Cook county. We have done it because the delegation have said they required it. Now, to be charged with hostility to Cook county, because we will not cater to a prejudice and a political fight that gentlemen have in Chicago, is not what ought to be done. Mr. HAYES Mr. President: I ask leave of the gentleman to correct him in regard to my remarks. Mr. TURNER. I yielded yesterday when I had some very important facts to bring before the Convention, and my time was cut off before I had time to finish. Mr. HAYES. Mr. President: Then, I will say, it is certainly not very corteous to charge a person with the use of im proper language, and not permit him to explain or correct the statement. Mr. TURNER. If there is any expla nation the gentleman desires to make, I WEDNIGSD.&Y) 1510 TEAS. Forman, Goodhue,, Hart, Harwood, McDowell, Merriam, Parker, Poage, Sedgwick, Sharp, Snyder, Sutherland, Tincher, Turner, Underwood, Wagner, Wait, Wendlinz, Wright9. NA.YS. Fox, Rice, Fuller, Ross, Gamble Beholfield, Haineg 0'f CookSherrill, Hankins, SpelDger, ,-lay, Tubbs, Hayes, Vandeventer, McCoy,. Wall, Medill, Washburn, Moore, Wells, Parks, Wheaton. Perley, Whiting"in Peirce, Wilson —. Abbott, Allen. of Alex. ,knderson, Anthony, Archer, Bowman, Bromwell, Browning, B-uxton, Coolbaugh, Craig, Dement, Ellis, English, A.BSENT, OR NOT VOTING. Brown, Hanna, Bryan' Hildrup, Cameron, King Goodell, Neece, Raines of LakePillsbury, Robinson, Skinner, Truesda-le, Mr. President-14. API 7 80 EAE N RQEIG.11 still more explicit, in these words-and gentlemen will observe that it is in the shape of instructions to delegates that might be elected to the Convention from that county. Resolved, That the candidates for the Convention are hereby instructed to exert their best endeavors to have inserted in the new Constitution, a provision reducing the excessive compensation of county officers to fair and reasonable salaries, and to have all personal emoluments paid into the county treasury. I merely allude to these things, and read these resolutions, emanating from both the great political organizations in Cook county, to show the unanimity that existed there, and that exists n ow, amongst the people of all parties, upon this subject. You are not, gentlemen of the Convention, I beg to assure you, striking at the citizens' organization by voting down this proposition. You are inflicting a wrong, the continiance of a wrong, upon the people of all parties, and upon the tax-payers of Cook county, by refusing to adopt this proposition. By adopting it, you are doing what all parties have asked you to do, you are doing it in such a way that it wrongs no portion of the State, and does not do any injustice to the people of any county. It relates to ourselves alone. And now, as an act of justice to us, as an act of justice to both political parties, and to all the people in Cook county, I do ask you, on behalf of the people of that county, on behalf of the tax-payers of that county, of everybody in the county, that you will do this act of justice that all parties have there demanded. Mr. DEMENT. Mr. President: I do not intend to discuss this question now under consideration. As I intend to now pursue a course that will appear to be different from the course I have pursued heretofore in regard to) it, when this subject has been up, but in a different form from what it is now presented, I wish to explain why I voted against the proposition introduced by my friend from Cook on yesterday. It was because it applied then to a particular individual, not to all the officers, and because it was subject to embarrassments, suggested by the gentleman from Adams [Mr. Browning]. I consider the question as now entirely relieved of the embarrassments, and my mind is relieved, as the proposition applies to all the officers of Cook county, those lately elected, as well as those elected some time ago. I think, as it has been stated, that we are not legislating for officers, but for the people of the State, and as the people of Cook county are largely and deeply interestea, and as I feel friendly to them and to their delegates on this floor,who are united in support of the amendment, I shall go with them for the relief they ask, as I believe it is in accordance with the wishes of the people without regard to political parties. Mr. MEDILL. Mr. President: I trust the gentlemen of the Convention will not refuse to adopt this amendment. My friend from Stephenson [Mr. Turner] is laboring-under a misapprehension in regard to the object of it. This amendment is not proposed for the purpose of inflicting a wrong upon the supposed vested rights of any officer of Cook county. It is not sought to punish any man. The object is to carry out could concede to t hem, t he y come ap, and in spite of that understanding, and, in dire ct violation of it, ask of us something that was not in the original re port. Mr. COOLBA_UGH. Mr. President: With the indulgence of the Convention, I desire to say a few words upon this question. I am somewhat surprised, and I may say pained, at the amount of feeling exhibited by the gentleman from Stephenson [Mr. Turner]. I am, perhaps, a little sensitive upon that subject, because he and I came here in pretty much the same way —as rather independent representa tives of the people of all parties-and because I think he seems disposed to part company with me. I intend to be true to the platform upon which I came here. But no more upon that subject. The proposition made by my colleague [Mr. Hayes] is a proposition, I admit, that was before the Convention yesterday, and, as I thought, was voted down for the reasons given by the gentleman from Adams [Mlr. Browning], that it was not self-adjusting in any way, and that there would be some diffic_ulty in carrying it out. - I understood hlm to say, while he voted against the proposition yesterday, that he-and I presume others who voted with him-would vote for it, if it were submitted in an independent proposition. .Now, gentlemen, what are the facts in this case? This is a proposition that simply applies to the county of Cook. It may be an unfortunate circumstance to the people of this State, that there is a city of Chicago in the State of Illinois, having three hundred thousand inhabitants. But, gentlemen, that calamity is upon us. It cannot be avoided, and while we have three hundred thousand people there, it is apparent to everybody, that in legislative matters, or in framing a Constitution, we cannot avoid making some special reference to a compact population like that. Gentlemen will find provisions, similar to this we seek to incorporate in this Constitution, in the Constitutions of all States having large cities. It is an unavoidable necessity. Now, I undertake to say that this thing is demanded by the people of Cook county. I undertake to say that it inflicts no possible wrong upon any other portion of the State, or upon any county or town in this State outside of Cook county. Then, why should gentlemlen oppose it? N~ow, to correct what I fear may be some misapprehension as to the wishes of the people, or the wishes of political organizations —if gentlemen choose to re gard it in that light —of that county} I desire to call the attention of the Convention to certain facts. It is known by everybody in the State that there was an exciting contest in the election, especially of delegates to this Convention, in Cook county, last fall. The party that nominated myself and my associates, passed certain resolutions de claratire of their opinions upon this and other subjects, among which was a reso lution like this: That the compensation of all officers shall be salaries fair and reasonable in amount, and that all surplus fees and emoluments shall be paid into the public treasury. That was the resolution on this subject adopted by the "citizens} party. lqow, what did the "republican" party do?~ They adopted a platform upon this subjuct, the un iver sal wishes of the people of the county. Now, I wish to assure my republican friends in this Convention, that if there is any one thing upon which our political friends in Cook county have unanimously agreed, with the exce.ption of the few persons interested, it is that these enormous emoluments shall be reduced as quickly as this Convention can enable us to reach that result. The plank of the Cook county republican platform that my colleague [Mr. Coolbaugh] has read, was drawn by myself. I was a member of the republican convention of Cook county last fall. It sat a month or six weeks in advance of the citizens' movement, and before it had even been determined upon. I was chairman of the Platform Committee and wrote that resolution. It simply reflected the universal public opinion. It was the exposition of the wishes of all people of both parties-of our party particularly. The convention adopted that resolution unanimously. And, gentlemen, those republicans who were nominated with me for seats in this Convention, and were defeated by those who now hold seats —Messrs. Scammon, Thompson, Bond,Bradwell, McCrea, and Stark, were all pledged in favor of the principle of the resolution just read. If those six gentlemen had been elected with myself, we should have labored for the adoption of this proposition; we should have felt that if we went home without making a sincere and honest effort to carry it, we should be derelict to our duty and subject to public condemnation and censure as unfaithful representatives. The six gentlemen elected against the six I have named, come here under the same pledge. Both sets of delegates can vassed that county, and pledged themselves that they would labor in season and out of season, to carry this proposition to reduce the compensation of Cook county officers. Both parties insisted upon having this done. Let me say that it is for the interest of the people of the State to have these enormous and corrupting official compensations in Cook county, reduced to a moderate scale as speedily as possible. The influence upon the politics of the State of such inordinate compensation of countyr officers, cannot be other than baneful. Why, sir, we have half-a-dozen men in our county, who are drawing larger salaries than the President of the United States, than any federal officer, than an) State officer.. Unless we go to Great Britain, we can find no salaried officer in possession of 80 large an income from his office, as some of the office-holders of Cook county. This is all wrong. Its effect on all the officialss of the State is most deleterious. Its influence for evil is not restricted to Cook county alone, but extends to every county in the State. Cook -county will always be quoted in the Legislature as an example in favor of "liberal compensation," and create, to a limited degree, the same trouble in other parts of the State. The hope and desire of our people is, that the Convention will pass some proposition, some amendment, whereby the exceessive salaries of the present officeholders can all be reduced to a fair and reasonable copensation. I I f DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 151i APRIL 27, 1870. RCONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION est feeling against Cook county. I have had no sort of feeling on account of the necessities claimed by gentlemen from Cook county, in relation to their judicia ry article. I have voted for every section and clause reported by the committee, unless an amendment was offered by some gentleman from Cook county, under circumstances indicating that the wish of Cook county was that the amendment should be adopted. I voted that they should be allowed a judge for every fifty thousand inhabitants. I voted under the information received from the gen tlemen from Cook, to deprive them of justices of the peace, and supply their places with other officers previded for in our work thus far, but I do not feel that I can vote for the amendment offered by the gentleman from Cook [Mr. Hayes]. I desire to call attention to some ad missions which we have made, not di rectly and specifically, but by the man ner in which we have discharged our du ties up to this time. We have acted upon the theory that it would be unwise to turn any man out of office before his term expires or lessen his fees. I appre bend that gentlemen have acted upon this theory for two reasons, that they be lieve it would be unjust to do so under the circumstances, and that it would be un wise and impolitic. Now, what would be the effect if this amendment embraced every officer in the State? It would at once array the hostil ity of every county officer in the State against this Constitution. I do not say that the influence alone of these county officers would defeat it, but I do say that in connection with their friends they might succeed in defeating it, if they could raise the cry of persecution and partiality against it. Again, there is another admission made here in our action, and that is when men come into office, under assurance that they shall receive a certain amount of money for the performance of their duty, their pay should not be increased or di minished during their term of office. Now, when this Constitution is submit ted to the people, if this amendment is adopted, these officers will combine to gether and say that we have violated that general principle recognized in this Con stitution, that the Convention has dis. criminated against them, and in addition to that, that we had the courage to apply a rule in relation to Cook county, and the officers of Cook county, that we have not been willing to apply to every county and every circuit clerk. Now, it seems to me, Mr. President, we ought not to adopt anything in the Constitution of this State unless there is a principle involved in it; unless the principle is to be applied all over the State, unless for the best of reasons. Again, Mr. President, when these officers were elected, they were elected under a certain law. These gentlemen in Cook county who are receiving these large fees, are receiving them, I apprehend, under the very same laws, under the very same Constitution which prescribes the fees of officers in other portions of the State, which we do not propose now to interfere with, in the slightest degree. Is this just? We have, Mr.President, clearly admitted that there are a large numberof offi - cers in other counties of the State besides the county of Cook, in other large counties in various portions of the State, re — WEDNESDAY, 1512 I do not think that any considerable number of people desire to have the re corder alone singled out'and his emolu ments cut down. But they want the re duction to apply to the county treasurer, to all the county clerks as well as the re corder, to the sheriff and the county clerk, and any other office-holders who are in receipt of more pay than their services are fairly worth. Our county officials are in receipt of the compensation of a dozen first-class counties. The gentleman from Stephenson [Mr. Turner] is harsh and unjust in his stric tures, when he complains that Cook coun ty is asking for too much. We do not ask for as much as the public really needs. We feel a delicacy about telling this Convention the actual uecessities of our - eople, and what the requirements of t at important portion of the State are. I believe it to be just as much the duty of every delegate here to provide for these requirements as for those of his own county. I certainly, in all the votes I have given on this floor, have voted conscientiously in regard to all parts of the State. I have'cast no vote to punish or annoy the constituents of any member, and have formed plots with no body, nor been seduced into intrigues by any office-holders against. the wishes and rights of the people. Gentlemen ei).ianot cripple or injure Cook county without damaging the State. It is too closely related and interwoven with all your affairs, all your business, official, political, commercial and finaincial, to be either ignored or disregarded. It is a large part and a big parcel of the whole State. You might as well undertake to c-,it off one of your hands and Dot feet the paid or suffer from the mutilation, as to strike it blow at any of the necessary things required by that County. without the whole State feelidg its injurious effect. The reduction of official fees is a re. form that is absolutely necessary in Cook county, in the interest of public and political morality, in the interest of political unltv and harmony in our county. We cannot have n respectable local political state of affairs there, until our office-holders are paid only a, fair competisation. As IODG as we have a dozen offices in that county worth from ten thousaind dollars to fift thousand dollars ceiViDg more and larger fees than they ought. If that admission is true,, let us have the boldness to lay the knife at the root of this whole evil, and say these also shall be reduced to a reasonable com pedsation. Mr. PEIRCE. Mr. President: I move the previous question. Mr. ROSS. Mr. President: I will ask if the gentleman will permit me to make a remark? Mr. PEIRCE. I will, Mr. President, if the gentleman from Fulton [Mr. Ross] will reiiew the motion. Mr. ROSS. Mr. President: I will do so, or give the gentleman an opportunity. Mr. PEIRCE. Mr. President: That opportunity I may not get. Mr. ROSS. Mr. President: I will re. new it. Mr. PEIRCE.; I will adhere,,Mr. Presdent, to my motion. Mr. PARKS. Mr. President: I would like to make a remark. The PRESIDENT. It is not in order. The previous question has been moved. The question is, shall the main question now be put? The motion of Mr. Peirce for the previous question was not agreed to. Mr. ROSS. Mr. President Mr. PARKS. Mr. President: I would like to ask a question if the gentleman from Fulton [Mr. Ross] will permit me. The question will call the gentleman's at. tention to a point I have in view. I will ask whether this is -a proposition to reduce the amount which the officers of Cook county shall get or whether it is in addition, to- reduce the amount of fees which the peopleshall pay? I find there is a. great deal of feeling on this subject, and a good deal of difference of opinion as to what will be the effect of the amendm ent if adopted. Will the effect be to reduce the fees that the people pay? Mr. ROSS. Mr. President: In answer to that question I will say, I understand that this is simply a proposition to leave to the board of supervisors, in all counties with a population of over one hun. dred thousand, the question of the compensation of their county officers. Perhaps the fees paid by individuals would not be changed by the adoption of this amendment. I have listened with some attention to APRIL 27, 1870. DEBATES AXI) 1'ROCEEDIGS. 1513 - never reduce the fees anywhere, because - representatives will stand here up)n this d floor and say: "Gentlemen, we were d elected upon a certain platform; it was d that vou should leave our county alone g and not affect our county treasury; it wag that you should never pass any laws here, t reducing fees, by which we should be deI prived of this large amount that we are i now receiving from the people, not only e of Cook county, but all over the State, r and upon which we are now running our county government." With twenty memt bers here, what can they not do, if they can produce such a change as appears s here, thus far, to-day. ) Mr PEIRCE. I move the previous question. Mr. CODY. Will you wait a few min-utes? [Laughter.] Mr. PEIRCE. Excuse me. I thought . the gentleman was through. - Mr. CODY. By the tenth and eleventh c lines of this section we have provided that this article shall not be construed to deprive the General Assembly of the power of reducing the fees of existing inL cumbents. That amendment was made and adopted, upon the motion of the gen, tleman from Sangamon [Mr. Hay]. It is right, it is prope/r. It leaves the same L power in the Legislature to regulate the fees of county officers that they possessed ; before we met here, and that they would possess, if this Constitution be not adopt ed, and that is perfectly right. Now, if we leave that as it is, the next session of the Legislature can adopt a rate of fees thamt will be just, proper and equitable throughout the State; but if we adopt the amendment of the gentle man from Cook [Mr. Hayes], I say that we will have built up an opposition against.,the reduction of fees, that cal never be overcome. Take the represen! tatives from Cook county, with their in terests so largely involved in the ques tion, with such help as they could bring to them, such aid as they could procure from all the county officers in the State, and it would be utterly impossible ever to reduce the fees, that we have heard so much complaint about everywhere in this State, by the action of the General Assem. bly. One word in regard to office-holders. I do not stand here as the advocate of office holders, and yet so far as they have rights, they are entitled to be heard upon this floor. I have yet to learn, sir, that there is any truth, any justice? in the attack made upon office holders as being a set of greedy cormorants. Who are they? They are the agents of the people, elected by the people. Take the officeholders throughout the length and breadth of the State —and I appeal to any gentleman uponl this floor, if he dare to say otherwise in regard to his own county —take the county officers and they are amnong the best, the mnost respectable, the most trustworthy people that we have in the State;* and I have no doubt that this holds true in regard to Cook county} because, judging from the character of the delegates that they have sent to this Convention, i am fully confident that the people of that county are competent to select for themselves proper and trustworthy agents or officers.s I call attention to the appeals made by the delegates from Cook county. I do not stand here as a republican or as a democrat, but as a representative of thee o for the benefit of his own county. Sup f pose that I should come to this Conven Ition, and say that my constituents has I, elected me upon a county seat issue, ant e that it was their wish that there should s be a provision in the Constitution, fixing is the county seat of my county in accord e ance with the vote of the people that s elected me to this Convention; would ] t be listened to, or ought I to be listened s to a single moment? If I come here asking for any such legislation as that for o my county, I should be unworthy of a v seat in this Convention. Sir, I hold that - we represent the people of the whole e State. Every voter in this State is as much my constituent as the people who r voted for me in the county of DuPage. It was asserted by the gentleman who - offered this amendment, that we had re- duced the fees of the executive officers, and the fees of the various other officers. He is laboring under a sad mistake in re- gard to that, for whenever and wherever that question has arisen, we have put in a c specific provision that prevents the fees t being reduced during the term of office of the present incumbents. So in regard to the executive officers. In regard to the circuit judges, instead of reducing their fees, we have raised them, and pro f vided that the present incumbents shall hold office during their present terms. I have no war to make upon Cook g county. I have interests there, and my p business is there. While I have no war of that kind to make, I have no fear * about doing my duty here. I do not fear the Chicago newspapers. I am not a c an didate for congress. I have no inter est in any particular question that induces me to act differently from what I conceive to be right. I wish to call the attention of this Con vention to a reason for not adopting this amendment, and I ask the attention of the gentleman from Fulton [Mr. Ross], particularly to this reason If the county of Cook M ith seven dele gates upon the floor of this Convention, can produce in this Convention such a change of opinion as that which it appears to have undergone since yester day, I ask gentlemen what twenty mem bers of the Legislature from the county of Cook can do it in the next Legislature -and I call the attention of the gentlemen upon this floor to that consideration. I ask gentlemen whether, if we adopt this amendment, the fees of the officers of Cook county will ever be reduced? Place the fees of the present county officers, at their present rates, in the county treasury of Cook county, and we have established a rule which will make it for the interest of the representatives of that county to prevent the reduction of those fees ever being made, because they will thus be able to run their county government upon fees that are paid, not only by their own citizens. but by the citizens of my county and the citizens of every county in this State. T'hatis the reason why this amendment should not be adopted. Adopt it and fees can never be reduced, either in Cook countyor in any other pait of the State. By the provisions of the article on counties, we have provided that the fees shall be uniform, that they shall be divided into classes, and, of course, Cook county will be in the lowest class, necessarily. And, when we have thus fixed it, we can is a plain, simple question. I propose t leave that responsibility in the hands o the delegation from Cook county. understand that with entire unanimity they ask that this provision shall b incorporated in the Constitution. A it will not interfere with any right of my own constituents, or the balance of the State, I feel disposed to award thi, to them. I do it the more cheerfully and readily when I consider that these officer, in Cook county made a solemn pledge t the people, before they were elected, to submit to just such a provision as we nom propose to incorporate into the Constitu tion. As one, I propose to hold thes, county officers to their pledges, which they made to the people before theiI election. I am not one of those disposed, unnec essarily, to interfere between representa tives and their constituency. I have been a little surprised that the gentlemen from Du Page [Mr. Cody] and Stephen son [Mr. Turner], should be specially called upon to represent the county of Cook, whenever questions relating to that county came before the Constitutional Convention. I am willing to leave it to those who have been elected'!by the peo ple of Cook county. But, whenever the question of the compensation of any of these public officers in Cook county is brought into this Convention, certain gentlemen at once rise, and with great power and eloquence depict in glowing colors the great injury that will be done to certain office holders who are receiv ing from $50,000 to $100,000 fees. Mr. President, there can be no greater evil than to leave such an imminse corruption fund in the hands of these officers, with which to contaminate and corrupt the people in order to perpetuate their continuance in office. No such thing should exist. If the question arises between these office holders and the county treasury of Cook county, I will vote all the time for the county treasury in Cook county, and place these surplus funds under the control of the board of supervisors. Mr. CODY. Mr. President: I did not intend to claim the attention of the Convention any further upon this subject, but inasmuch as the gentleman who last occupied the floor has alluded to me personally, and inasmuch as he has asserted that no reason has been given why this amendment should not be adopted, I desire to make one or two suggestions. It is true that I do not reside in the county of Cook. But among my constituents there is a very large number of property holders in that county who are doing business in the city and residing in my county. The two lines of railroads that run through my county are lined with villages, filled to a greater or less extent with people whose interests are in Chicago, and who are among my owFn immediate constituents. But aside from that, sir, I do not hold that any man who sits in this Convention simply represents any one county, or that he has a right to come here and ask of this Convention special legislation for his own locality. He is here to act for the whole State} for every citizen in the State, to make an organic law filled with general principles applicable to the whole commonwealth. N~o delegate has a right to come here and ask special legislation 379 APRIL' 2, 1870. DEBATES AND P-ROCEEDINGS. 1513 1514~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ —- 11-TTUIOA — ~ENIO -. -- ~ - - - -- payers of Cook county. If we do not pay the compensation of the officers in fees, we are compelled to pay it in taxes. It is almost a matter of indifference to us whether the pay comes out of the fees or the taxes All we do want is, that these men who hold the offices shall not obtain one hundred thousand or two hundred thousand dollars of the money of the people of Cook county without earning it. Let it go either into the treasury to be paid in proper proportion to those who perform the service, or remain in the hands of the taxpayers. We only ask that the compensation shall be re duced. The gentleman from Will [Mr. Good hue] has argued that if we adopt this amendment, we shall defeat the Constitu tion, by throwing against it thecombined inifluence of'he office-holders of Cook county. He has been told by the gentle men trom Cook county [Mr. Coolbaugh and Mr. Medill], and he will be told by every gentleman who is acquainted with Cook county, that it is the unanimous wish of the people of Cook county that this reduction of compensation should take place, and take place now, and yet the gentleman contends that these petty office-holders in Cook county would have influence enough to throw the vote of Cook county against the C Institution, in opposition to the wishes of the whole people of Cook county. I am surprised at such an argument. I will say to the gentleman that four-fifths of the office-hold ers are under pledges to submit to such a reduction of salaries. Some were under pledges to pay all over a certain amount into the treasury. Mr. CHURCH. I would ask the gentleman whether the officers so elected have redeemed their pledges, or were they elected by fraud? Mr. HAYES. They were not elected by fraud. They were elected on a fair vote of thepeople. Some have paid over the compensation into the State treasury as they agreed to. Mr. David A. Gage, who was elected city treasurer on the pledge to pay over a portion of his compensation, has done so, as I understand. Mr. Gindele, who was elected county clerk, and who, it was said, made a similar pledge, has not done so. Whether he made the pledge or not, I cannot say, but it was the understanding of the people of Cook county that there should be a reduction o.f those salaries; that the officers should be paid by salary. and there should be a reduction of compensation. That understanding we expected to be carried out. But these incumbents, some of them, state that they ought not to make that reduction themselves; that their understanding was that the reduction was to be made by the Constitutional Convention. They are willing to submit to a reduction made by the Constitutional Convention, but not to make it themselves. We now ask the Convention to make that reduction, or authorize it. to be made, so that all these gentlemen may keep their pledges, and the people of Cook county be relieved, to some ert tent, from the burdens under which they now groan. I would say in/ conclusion, that I have no feeling towards the gentlemen who, living in other counties, have taken part in this discussion in opposition to the views of myself and colleagues. I have been a ittle surprised at the heated man people of the State of Illinois, on the floor of this C onv entio n. You a re ap pealed to as republicans, because the re puolican platform contained a certain provision. You ate appealed to as dem ocrats, because the citizens' movement may be injured. Now, how is this? Can the two ca,ses go together? Can oil and water mix? How is it? Let us lose sight of every such question. Let us lose sight of these unworthy appeals to party, and act like men not afraid to do their duty. [Here the hammer fell]. ["Go on!" "Go on!"] 3Ir. HAINES, of Cook. I object. Mr. HAYES. Mr. President: A few points have been made by the gentleman from DuPage, which I will answer. Mr. CODY. Mr. President: I rise to a point of order. Yesterday I noticed two or three times, when this discussion was going on, that the delegates from Cook county spoke more than once, and were not called to order. I am of opinion that the gentleman from Cook [ Mr. Hayes] has already spoken upon this proposi tion. I may be in error, however. The PRESIDENT. The minutes of the Chair do not show that the gentle man from Cook [Mr. Hayes] has spoken upon the amendment of the gentleman from Stephenson [Mr. Turner]. Mr. HA.YES. Mr. President: The op position of the gentleman from DuPage [Mr. Cody] to a fair discussion of this question is in keeping with the charac ter of the remarks that some gentlemen have made in reference to this matter. I did not expect that this objection would come from a gentleman who had just made a speech on the other side-that he woiuld insist upon cutting off the expression of views in opposition to his own. He insisted that this amendment ought not to be adopted, because if it were, the delegation from Cook county, in future Legislatures, would vote against the reduction of fees. Mr. CUMMINGS. Mr. President: I move that unanimous consent be given the gentleman from Cook [Mr Hayes] to discuss the amendment introduced by himself, upon which he has already spoken. Mr. HAYES. I will not take much time. I will confine myself to the pending proposition. I was about to answer the gentleman from DuPage [Mr. We have adopted provisions requiring a reduction of fees hereafter. By other provisions, also adopted, all the fees will go into the treasuries of the different counties, after the next session of the General Assemblyr. If the interest of the county in the fees would cause members from Cook county in the General Assembly to oppose a reduction of those fees under the operation of the amendment which I have offered, it would equally cause them to oppose such a reduction, if that amendment should not be adopted, because, iu either case, the fees would go into she county treasury. But, sir, we do nlot consider it a matter of nlecessity that these fees should go into the county treasury. Whether officerss are paid by fees, or by salaries derived from taxation, they are paid by the peopl e in either case —it is only one mode of taxation, in preference to another. We unuderstand that the fees in Cook county, almost all of them, come out of the taxo CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION WEDNF,SDAY) 1514 ner in which they have sp(-)keD, and the zeal thev have shown, and I am als,) surprised Chat some of them have taken the position they have. I have no C(mplaint to make of them. I can only say they are mistaken in some of their statements, that they are mistaken in their general ideas on this subject. The delegates from Cook county n,fiver agreed in Judiciary Cotnmitt(le or anywhere else, that they would Dot move an amendment in this Convention on this subject. They have never tied their hands in that way. They have desired all the time to agree among themselves. They did agree aMODg themselves. The Judiciary Committee P-ccepted their agreement, and agreed to report it. That is about all it amounts to. But they reserved the right, and that has always been understood, to move any amendment,s that are for the interest of the people of that county. I am obliged to the Convention for its kind indulgence. ADJOURNMENT. Mr. MERRIAM. Mr. President: I move that the Convention do now adjourn. The motion was agreed to. So the Convention (at twelve o'clock and twenty-four minutes) adjourned. A FTERNO ON SESSION. W.EDNISDAY April 27,18 . 1 70. The Conveintion met at two o'clock. P. m., and was called to order by the President. I COUNTIES. Mr. MERRIAM. Mr. President: I would like to have the Secretary read the pending proposition. The Secretary read the amendment offered by Mr. Hayes, as follows: After the word "office" in the fifteenth line, insert the following words: "In counties having one hundred thousand inhabitants, the county board shall fix the compensation of all the present officers, and ot' their s.uecestiors as herein above provided." Also, the amendment offered by Mr. Turner, as follows: Strike out "one hundred thowand.11 Mr. MERRIAM. 31r. President: I desire, before recording my vote upon the question which Yoe are discussing, to give, very briefly, the reasons that impel me to do so. And I wish at the outset to dis. claim any hostility toward those gentle. men who are so exceediiagly anxious to incorporate in the new Constitution the proposition of the gent eman om Cook [Mr. Hayes]. I wish for myself to preserve a consistent record for the examination cf my constituents, and any other people of the State who may choose to look after so unimportant a matter. The proposition that we are asked to adopt in this Constitution is, in my humble judgment, simply a piece of gross special legislatioia. I wish to say here, that with all that has been said of the monstrous salaries in the county of Cook I take no issue. I believe those salaries are unreasonable. But I ask gentlemen of this Convention to remember that there are other counties in the State of Illinois besides the county of Cook, in which salaries are as unreasonable, and in which the people A APIL 7 80 EAE N RCEIG.1 the fees. I do not understand this prop osition is to reduce the price of recording a deed in Cook county. I do not under stand that it proposes to reduce the amount that I or asy man living outside of Cook county, and doing business there, would have to pay into the treasury of Cook county. Ou the contrary, if this amendment is adopted, it will be the in terest of Cook county, in all time to come, to oppose a reduction of fees. It will be the interest of the county to leave the fees. as they are. Mr. HAYES. Mr. President: I would like to ask the gentleman if he does not know that the. provision already adopted is, that the fees may be graded according to classes of counties, Mr. MERRIAM. I do. Mr. HAYES. I will ask the further question, if he would be willing to vote for this proposition with an amendment, reducing the fees of the officers in Cook counity? Mr. MERRIAM. I undertand that to be your proposition. Mr. HAYES. Not to reduce fees, but compensation of officers.w Mr. MERRIAM. I will not vote for a proposition reducing the fees of county officials in Cook counaty only. That would not be just. Let us either apply the remedy to all the counties, or let the General Assembly do it. Sir, we cannot defend our action if we attempt to legislate for one county, and leave the rest of the counties unprovided for. I hope, sir, that his Convention is not' prepared to take a step which cannot be defended before the people of the State, to take a step which the people everywhere must condemn. We have nothing to do, sir, with the local matters of one county any more than with another. [Here the hammer fell]. Mr. WAGNER. Mr. President: Believiig this question to have been about exhausted, I move the previous question. The PRESIDENT. The question is on the motion of the gentleman from Carroll [Mr. Wagner], who moves the previous question. The motion for the previous question was agreed to, and the main question ordered. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the amendment of the gentleman from Stephenson [Mr. Turner], to strike out the words, "one hundred thousand."C Mr. HAINES, of Cook. Mr. President: How will it read if that is stricken out? The PRESIDENT. The Secretary will read the amendment as it swill stand if the words "one hundred thousand" be stricken out. The Secretary read the amendment offered by Mr. Hayes, as proposed to be amended by Mr. Turner, as follows: pay as high a tax for the same service as they do in the county of Cook. It costs more money to-day to record an ordinary deed or mortgage in Tazewell county than it does in Cook. I th ink I c ould nam e perhaps thirty or forty counties in the State, in which it costs more. These county officers receive a larger salary. They receive more of the people's money in proportion to population and wealth thau the people of the county of Cook to pay their officials. I ask gentlemen why we are asked to single out one county and apply the knife to the abuses that exist there, and yet stand quietly bv and see the abuses go on in other counties? If the delegation who are anxious that this provision should be incorporated into the Constitution are willing to give to every other county in the State the same relief that they ask for themselves, I, for onie, will go with them, but I cannot stultify mvself by voting to apply a remedy to any one county in the State, and not demand at thesamne time that the remedy shall be applied for the very same evils existing ia a great many others. I have been willing to concede every thing that may be necessary, by way of exception, for Cook countv. I voted'-a vote which I am free to confess I have since regretted-that one part of the judiciary of Cook county might virtually appoint another part of the judiciary, and then remove them summarily. I did that because my friends from that county, of both parties, represented that it was absolutely necessary for the welfare of (Chicag). But it is a principle that cannot be defended, either here or elsewhere. Now, sir, we are -willing to treat all the districts of the State alike. I will go as far as any other gentleman upon this floor, when we do not run counter to the principles of justice and of right. Sir, what does this amendment propose? Instead of submitting general provisions to be voted upon by the people of the State of Illinois for the State at large, we are asked to take the vote of the people of the State of Illinois upon a question of local interest in Cook county. I say, sir, that to do any such thing as that, is to perpetrate a gross injustice. I do not wish to mingle in the quarrel with the office holders of Cook county or any other county. They are nearly all receiving exorbitant salaries. But the burdens of taxation, in consequence of these large fees, are no greater in that countythan ill many other counties in the State. They have a population in that county of perhaps 300,000, anti the fees of the county officers must necessarily amount to a large sum~, but the people do nest pay any more there for the settlement of an estate, or having a deed recorded, than we pay in other counties. Now, sir, we have, from time to time, in the progress of the business of this Convention. been asked to make exceeptions in the case of Cook county, and to most of these I have agreed —when I could do so consistently with my news of justice and right. I think the se:nse of justice and right of the people of all parties in this State would condemn any such action as this amendment proposes. Those of us who have been advocating in good faith a reduction of fees of county officials, have done 80 with a view, not merely of turning that income into the county treasury, but to reducing the assessments and levys upoil those who pay YEAS. Abbott} Fuller, Allen of Cwfd,Goodell, Bayne, Goodhue, Benjamin, Hart, Bromwell, Hildrup, Cary, McCoy, Church, McDowell, Cody, Merriam, Cross, Parker, Eldredge, Parks, English, Poage, Forman, Sedgwick, Allen of Alx'n,F ox, Rice, Anthony, Gamble, Ross, Archer, Haines ofCook,Scholfield, Bowman, Hankins, Tubbs, Browning, Harwood, Vandeventer, Buxton, Hay, Wait, Coolbaugh, Hayes, Wall, Craig, Medill, Washburn, Cummings, Moore, Wendling, Dement, Perley, Wilson-32. Ellis, Peirce, In counties having - inhabitants, the countv board shall fix the compensation of all the present officers and of their sucessors, as herein above provided. Mr. HAYES. Mr. President: I call for the yeas and nays. The PRESIDENT. The question is on the amendment offered by the gentleman from Stephenson [Mr. Turner] to the amendment offered by the -gentleman from Cook [Mr. Hayes]. The ye as and nays were ordered. The Secretary proceeded to call the roll. Mr. ALLEN, of Crawford (when his f APRIL 27, 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1515 name was called) said: Mr. President: I wish to explaia my vote. I am opposed to this whole article, with reference to fixing salaries of county officers. I shall vote for this as also the amendment of the gentleman from Cook [14r. Hayes.]'I wish- to make this section as offensive as possible. I vote "Aye." Mr. ANTHONY (when his name was .called) said: Mr. President: I desire to explain my vote. I would vote in favor of the proposition extending this to the whole.State, if I thouaht it would be agreeable to the Convention. S(-lme say they do not want it. I will anno'unce I am in favor of apply. iDg it, if the gentleman from Stephenson [,Nlr. Turner] wilt modify his proposition; but as it is now, I vote "No." Mr. DENIE-NT (when his name was called) said: I shall vote "No," for the reasons that the friends of the original proposition have-that adopting this amendment would destroy the object of the original proposition; but I am in favor of applyidg this principle to the whole State. I vote "No." Air. HkY (when his name was called) -said: I would like to vote for some measure that would not involve a contradiction with my previous po,3ition here-for some measure that would enable an immediate reduction in the fees of the ofUcers in Cook county; but as this ameddment is grounded upon a principle which, I agree with the gentleman from Crawford [iUr. Alllen], is wrong, the principle of a salary for county officers, I cannot support it. I vote "NO.11 Mr. UNDERWOOD (when his name was -called) said: I wish to vote on this question, -as on all others, guided by,some principle. If this principle were to extend all over the State, the power of limiting -the fees of these officers, it would be tangible; but I understand that this is to give it to ot ly one county. I cannot vote for that, hence I vote "Aye." The result was then announced-yeas, 35, nays 32-as follows: "harp, Sh,rrill, Snyder, Sutherland, Tincher, Turner, U.d," ood, Wagner, Wheaton, Wtiltin,-,' Wright35. NAYS. .LBSIMNT, OR NOT VOTING. Anderson, Hanna, Skinner, Atkins. King, Springer Brown; Neece, Truesdal'e, Bryan, Pillst)ary, Wells, Cameron, Robinson. Mr. President-16. Hain-es,ofLake, So the amendment offered by Mr. Turner to the amendment offered by Mr. Hayes was agreed to. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION stion then being on the amend am bound to take it as I understand it, ed by Hayes, as amended, the as offered in that spirit and with the design lays were ordered. of meeting the wants of the people of RKS (in his seat). Read the Cook county as they have been representn. ed by the delegates from that county, cretary read the amendment of- and of affording a relief to the people of f Ir. Hayes, as amended by Mr. that county, if the delegates of the county follows: of Cook still insist and desire that that word "office," in the fifteenth shall go into this Constitution, and if the following: "In counties hav- that will end the controversy and allow habitants, the county boardshall this Convention to proceed and finish up f pensationof all the present offi- the work of making a Constitution for their successors, as herein above the State of Illinois, I am willing to suscretary proceeded to call the tain it, notwithstanding it is entirely re pugnant to what my views are of what OWNING, (when his name was our duty is here as delegates framing a aid: Mr. President: As the Constitution for a great State to continue n now is, it is entirely unmean- in force for many years. Now, sir, this whole system of fees of t."] ministerial officers, is a matter properly T ESIDENT. Objection being within the reach of, and is a proper businot in order for the gentle- ness for, the Legislature of the State, and ceed with the explanation of I cannot believe that when great parties (or no parties in Cook county recommendult was then announced-yeas, ed their delegates in this Convention to L4-as follows: go in for a reduction of compensation, it believed or intended that it should be YEAS.. brought into this Convention, and that Ellis, Merriam, b fd.,Foxtl, Moerrea, there should be more time spent in this Ale fC'fd.,Fox, Moore, Fuller, Perley, Convention in endeavoring to engraft Haines of C'k, Scholfield, into the organic law a mere piece of spe Hlayes, Wall, cial legislation-of the most special charCoo g, Rildrup, Whigtin, acter, too-than upon almost any other one Medill, Wright subject that has come before the Conven tionl-for the amount it has cost to dis'AY. - cuss the questions which do not belong Goodhue, Sherrill, in the organic law, has been more than Hankins, Snyder, all the compensation sought to be re Hart, Sutherland, duced. Harwood, Tineher, Hay, Tubbs, Now, sir, in all the movements that McCoy, Turner, have been made, coming from Cook McDowell, Underwood, county, with reference to the reduction o, Parker, Vandeventer, of compensation, not one motion has Cos Paerksc, Waigner, been made that looked to the relief of Cummings, Peirce, W a it, Poage, Washburn, the people, not one motion but what Rice, Wendling, looked to the enrichment of the treasury, Ross, Wheaton, and, therefo)re, presented a direct issue Sedgwick, Wilson —4. Gaml, Sedgwick, Wilson9. between the millionaires of Chicago and Goodell hathe people of Chicago and the common BSENT OR NOT VOTING. business men. en Alex.,Haines of L'k, Skinner, Now, sir, the treasury of every county, Hanna, Springer, the treasury of every State, the treasury King, Truesdale, of every municipality should be filled by Brown, Naaeea, Wells,ta n Neece, Wellsbr, Mta x upon the property of that State, Pillsbury, Mr. President-17. Robinson county or municipality, and we should not look to mere business, mere misfor amendment offered by Mr. tune or accident for the source of reve amended, was not agreed to. nue. d . OLBAUGH. Mr. President: Is Under all these propositions, the man order to move to fill the blank? who buys a piece of land to bury one of ~ ] his family, takes a deed for it, in order RESIDENT. It is not in or- to ]ave it recorded must pay just as roposition having been voted heavy a tax into the treasury of Cook county as a man who buys a corner lot, RNER Mr. President: If there valued at one million and a half. Is not re amendments to section six, that a fact? Compensations are paid too, strike out the whole section, in a great measure, by the poor people . briefly give my reasons for my who are so unfortunate as to get into the courts-not the criminals who are drag ESIDENT. It is not in order ged into the courts, because they are not -The question is upon concur- men that can pay costs but the poor n amendment of the Committee people who are sued in the-courts, beole, namely: cause they cannot pay their debts but That the compensation of no offi- more particularly by widows and orphans c increased or diminished during whose estates are administered in the office. courts, and who, if any class ought to be SS. Mr. President: I offer the afforded cheap and easy remedies, should amendment: find the doors wide open for their reounties of over one hundred thou- lief. ation, the fees of county officers And, sir, while sitting here there came -half of that allowed by law. to my mind an instance where a guardian URCH. Mr. President: As I from the county in which I live, went to hat that amendment is offered Cook county for the purpose of getting ence to Cook county, and as I somebody to procure the pension of a minor child whose father had been killed in the war. He applied to a pension agent in Chicago. He was there advised that it was necesary that he should go into the co unt y court a nd get letters of guardianship. He went there and obtained the letters, and the fees he paid to the agent and actual costs that he paid there for his letters, left but a mere trifle to bring home for the benefit of his ward. I mention that as one instance illustrating the practical working of this system, of receiving revenue from fees. Its effect is to extort as heavy a fee from a minor child owning but a trifling property as from the representative of a man possessing five millions of property. All this muss is to reach a separate officer of Cook county. Now it is said that this is to relieve the people, and also save to the treasury. A portion of the fees of the county treasury goes to the State treasury. The other part is sent to the county treasury by this amendment. The fees of the sheriff and coroner are paid partly by the county of Cook, and partly by the inhabitants of the county themselves. So also with the county clerk, and to some extent the other offices. So far as the fees are reduced, relief is afforded to the parties which pay the fees whether State, county or people, in proportion to the burden now borne upon them. Mr. HAYES. Mr. President: Does the gentleman know the proportion required for doing the work? Mr. CHURCH. I do not. We do not want more collected than enough to pay proper officers proper compensation. If the people, last fall, elected any officers under false pledges, they ought not to allow them to violate those pledges, but we should not perpetrate an injury to the rights of other officers who have not violated any. If the word of any persons elected were given to the people, and they have violated it, punish them for these frauds, as other confidence scoundrels are punished. There were false issues raised at the election, and false charges made, yet I believe no delegate has ever made the charge in this Convention, that the officers who are said to be so obnoxious to them are anything more or less than lawabiding citizens. Are there not hundreds, I may say thousands, of men in Chicago, who are in receipt of larger incomes, in the possession of larger properties and estates, than these officers of Cook county?9 Are they corrupt and bad men, simply because some of them happened to fall into a mud-puddle at night, waked up in the morning, and found the mud-puddle had become a corner lot worth $1,000,000? The pr'operty of Chicago is, in a great measure accidentally honestly obtained, no doubt, according to law. The fact that a man has been successful enough to get into this or that office, and thereby obtain large compensations, is no more against the morality, good standing, and decency of the man, than though he was so fortunate as to be successful in any other matter, and thereby get a great fortune. The property of Chicago does not depend on the amount of labor a man has done. Other delegates and I have worked in Illinois for more than a quarter of a century, and worked as hard as any man in Chicago, and yet have succeeded in only getting a fair living. il~everthe. WEDNF,SDAY, 1516 Archer, BeDjamin, Bowman, Bromwell, Browning, Cary,. Church, Cody, Ci-oss, Cummings, Eldredge, EDgliStI, Forman,l Gamble, Goodell, APRIL~~~~~~W 27 180~EAE X RCEIG.11 of our people, although it may go a step in that direction. The Convention has decided that there shall be no reduction of the enormous fees of Cook county offi cials during the terms for which they were elected-all our efforts in that di rection have failed. The office-holders seem stronger than the people. But, for one, I am willing to accept the decision of this Convention, and leave with thenm the responsibility of their vote. Having voted down a proposition which was de mn anded by the people of Cook county, I am willing to let the responsibility rest where it belongs. The will of forty thou sand voters in Cook county has been of no avail in this Convention. lMr ENGLISH. Mr. President: I move to lay the amendment upon the table. Mr. TURNER. Mr. President: I hope, as the delegation from Cook county do not desire to have the fees of their offi cers reduced, that the amendment will be withdrawn. Mr. HAYES. Yr. President: I will simply corrrect one remark that has been made here. The delegation from Cook county have not claimed that they want ed the fees ef the officers of Cook county reduced. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the motion to lay upon the table the amendment of the gentleman from Ful ton [Mr. Ross]. The yeas and nays were ordered. The Secretary proceeded to call the roll. Mr. ANTHONY (when his name was called) said: I desire to explain my vote. Cook county contains one-eighth of the population of the State, and pays one fifth of the taxes. About ninety-six thousand dollars of the school fund which is raised in our county is applied to the benefit of other counties int, maiintin ing schools. We do not desire to take up any more of the time of the Convention than is actually necessary, and believe we have not. The proposition of the gentleman from Fulton [lair. Ross] is an indiscrimi nate one. No one knows where it hits. I know that fees of many of our county officers are too high, but what ones, I do not at this moment know. I am for re ducing those fees, and I think the best way is to do it as provided for in this article. If geL tlemen will accept this-that the counlty board of Cook county shall fixs the fees of officers, I would be in flavor of the proposition. Without that, I shall vote to lay it upon the table, and shall propose immediately that the county board shall have the power both to regulate and reduce all the fees in that county. Mr. BENJAMIN (when his name was called) said: Inasmuch as some of the delegationo frm Cook county have intimated that they are in favor of laying this motion for the reduction of fees, on the table, I vote "Aye.'" Mr. CHURCHI (when his name was called) said: In furtherance of what I observed in the few remarks I made a few moments ago, that if the delegation from Cook county desired to have:the fees of their officers reduced, I would aid them, I vote, as indicated by the gentleman from Cook [Mr. Anthony], to lay the amendment on the table, but am willing to change the vote if the majority of that telegation shall vote "No."} less, we do not bl ame tho se who have succeeded in Chicago. We do not a sk that they should be deprived of that. Sir, I do not like to see any wrong perpetrated i n t his Convention any more than anywhere else, against any particu lar persons, and it cannot be disguised but what such has been the case here, from some sources, from the start. There has been a disposition to use the machin ery of this Convention for the purpose of carrying out particular pledges made last fall upon the stump, to inflict punishment upon men charged with no crime worse than being true to their country and par ty. If these gentlemen desire to inflict chastisement on the men who have vio lated their pledges, I do not care to what they resort in order to do it-I would suggest the penitentiary-but the proper place to resort to, is at home, where the pledges have been violated, among the people, from whom all power emanates and to whom these officers are responsible for the offices they hold, and the pledges they made in procuring these offices. It is admitted here that their pledges were false, that they lied to the people, that the election was carried on false issues, by which the honest voter was deceived. If the laws against confidence games are not sufficient and efficient to reach them, we ought, perhaps, to allow ex postfacto laws to be passed for their especial cases to properly mete out justice to political culprits; but do not include innocent men who have violated no law, except, perhaps, one of the defeated candidates (General Salomon), whose only violation was voluntarily donating his fees to the people, which the law allowed him to keep, and which his successor does keep against his pledges to the people. Mr. PERLEY. I want to inquire if the Chair can see the clock. I think the gentleman has been talking about twen ty minutes. Mr. CHURCH. I have no more to say. MNir. COOLBAUGH. Mr. President: I simply rise to say in reply to the honora ble delegate who has just taken his seat, that the intimation the amendment proposed by the gentleman from Fulton [Mr. Ross] was offered in the interest or at the instigation of the delegation from Cook county, on this floor, is, I think, not well founded. For one, sir, I am satisfied to abidle the result of the action of this Convention on the subject matter, to which the gentleman from Mcl~enry [Mr. Church] has alluded, and I do not propose, as a mem~ber of that delegation, to make anly flr. ther effort or any continuous struggle upon this question. I accept the decision of the Convention, mluch as I regret it. TWe, as a delegation, have made an honest and earnest effort on this floor to prevail upon the Convention Lo do what I believe the people of Cools county have unar. imously desired it to do. W~e leave the responsibility with others of determinling, and of saying that the fees and emnoluments of the individuals holding coficess in Cook county shall not be reduced by this Convention. And I do not propose, for one, as I said, hereafter to trouble the Convert lion with anything further upon this subject. In regard to the amendment proposed by the gentleman from Fulton [Mr. Ross], I have nothing to say. It does not meet the wishes of our delegation or the wants, 880 YTEAS. Goodell, Goodhue, Hankins, Hart, Harwood, Hildrup, IVIcCoy, McDowell, Merriam, Parker, Parks, Poage, Scholfield, Sedgwick, Sharp, S nyder, Springer, Suitherland, Tincher, Tubbs, Turner, Vandeventer, Wagner, Wait, Wall, Washburn, Wendling, Wheaton, Whiting Wright-46. iAYS. Raines of CookMoore, Hay, Perley, Hayes, Peirce, Medill, Ross-13. AP]?.IL 27, 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1517 Mr. HAINES, of Cook. Mr. Presi dent: In order that del6 have it to sa, gates may not .v that the Cook COUDty delega tion is a unit, I will say that I am in, favor of a reduction of fees. Mr. CHURCH. If a majority of the delegation are in favor of it, I will change mv vote. I vote "Aye." Mr. HA'YES (when his -name was called) said: I will state in explanation of my vote, that I sball vote against laying on the table, for the reason that the proposition might be amended to remove objection to it In its present form I am not in favor of it. I think its reduction is too great. But I do favor a proper reduction of fees in the county of Cook. I vote "No-" Mr. SEDGWICK (when his rame was called)'said: Inasmuch as the Cook county delegation are likely to get too niuch of a good thing by way of a reduction of fees, I vote with them. I vote "Aye. Mr. HA.INES, of Cook (in his seat). I hope the gentleman will not say he votes with that delegation, but with a portion of them. [Laughter.] The res-,ilt was tlien announced-yeas, 46, nays, 13-as follows: Anthony, Archer, Benjamin,, Bowman, Bromwell. Browning,' Buxton, Church, Cody, Coolbaagh, Craig, Cross, Eldred,ge, English, , Forman, Gamble, Abbott, IBayne, Cummings, Dement, Fox, A.BSENT, OR NOT VOTING. Allen of Alex.,Ellis, Robinson, Allen of Crlfd., Fuller, Sherrill, Anderson, Haines of LakeSkinn Atkins, Hanna er' Truesd-le, Brown, King, Underwood, Bryan, Neece, Wells Cameron, Pillsbury, Wilson, Cary, Rice, Vr. — P,,edent-24. So the motion of Mr. Eii-lisli to lay on the table the amendment t, offered by Mr. Ross, was agreed to. Mr. ANTHONY. Mr. President: I desire to introduce the;following amendment: The county board may:flx the fees of county officials in Cook county, until provided by law. Mr. GOODHUE. I move to lay that amendmer-it on the table. Mr. ANTHOINY. Upon that I call for the yeas and nays. Mr. GOODHUE. I. withdraw the motion. Mr. BENJAlklIN. I move to strike out of the amendment the words "Cook county," and insert "in the several counties of the State." Mr. ANTHONY. The gentleman from Carroll [Mr. Wagner] has handed me au amendment, which I will accept in the place of the one first offered. The Secretary read the amendment off' 158CNTTTOA OYNJ-WDEDY on this subject, but to eave with the Convention the responsibility of perpetuating the present exorbitant and corrupting emoluments of Cook county officials. The Secretary read the amendment offered by Mr. Medill, as follows: In counties having more than one hundred thousand inhabitants, the board of supervisors shall have authority to fix the fees and compensation of all county officers until otherwise provided by law. Mr. UNDERWOOD. Mr. President: That would give the board of supervisors the power to raise the fees to double what they now are, and put the surplus in the county treasury. I therefore move tf) lay the amendment upon the table. The yeas and nays were ordered, and, bi)eing taken, resulted-yeas, 43;, nays, 26-as follows: counties by population into not more than three classes, and regulate the fees according to class. No increase of fees of any of said officers shall be allowed to take effect, as to any incumbent in office, when such increase shall take effect. This article shall not be construed as depriving the Ge ner a l Assembly of the power to reduce the fees of existing incumbents. Mr. CARY. Mr. President: I think that we need some one to explain this section. It reads as follows: All laws fixing the fees of State, county and township officers, shall terminate with the terms of the incumbents in office, at the meeting of the first General Assembly after the adoption of this Constitution. Will any one inform me wh at that means? So in the eigh th a nd ninth lines, this sentence occurs: No increase of the fees of any of said officers s hall b e allowed t o take e ffect, as to any incumbent in office, when such increase shall take effect. If any one can explain the meaning of these parts of the section, I will be obliged to him, for I confess that I am at a loss to know what is intended thereby. Mr. HAY. Mr. President: By this first clause All laws fixing the fees of State, county and township officers, shall terminate with the terms of the incumbents in office, at the meeting of the first General Assembly after the adoption of this Constitution What was intended when I drew the section was, to put the Legislature in a position to legislate in regard to these officers, disincumbered of the embarrassments that would attend an attempt to reduce the fees of existing officers. I wanted to get back to an economical feebill, and I was satisfied we could never do that if the legislation which attempted it was made operative upon the fees of existing officers. At the same time I did not want to deprive the Legislature of the power of so legislating as to reduce the fees of the incumbents in office. Now, the first time the Legislature can legislate upon this matter is at its first meeting. Mr. TURNER. Mr. President: I would suggest that it should read "at the close of the'first General Assembly," because if it were not so there would be an interim between the time when they met, and the time when there would be any legal fees to be collected. Mr. HAY. At the suggestion of a member, I can supply a word that will make this probably a little clearer —to insert "who may be" after "incumbents," in the second line. That is with respect to those who are in officee at the meeting of the General Assembly. Mr. ENGLISH. I would like to make a suggestion. Strike out "with the terms of thle incumbents in office, at the meetirg," and insert "within thirty days after the adjournment." That will Isx a definmte time for the fee-bill to expire. Mr. HAY. Yes, sir;7 the Legislature then would necessarily aff~ect the fees of the incumbents in office. I think the introduction of a word or two in the second linle would make this a little clearer. Mr. CA RY. The legisl ative article fixes the timhe all laws are to go into effect — the first of July next thereafter. Would it not be better to fixs that timle? Mr. GOODHUJE. To obviate the difficul ty, and make the matter clea rer, I would suggest. to strike out after "offlice" in the -second line, to "~rhall,"7 in the third fered by M r. Wagner and accepted by Mr. Anthony, as follows: County boards may regulate and reduce the fees of county officers, until the General Assembly shall provide by law for the same. ~ The PRESIDENT. Does the gentlema n from McLean [Mr. BeAjamin] accept that as a part of his motion? Mr. BENJAMIN. I do not a ccept it, sir. The PRESIDENT. The gentleman from McLean [Mr. Benjamin.] has a right to take the sense on his amendment to the original proposition, unless that be wholly withdrawn. Mr. ANTHONY. I will withdraw it, Mr. President, and introduce this in its place. The PRESIDENT. The proposition of the gentleman from Cook [Mr. Anthony] is in order, but thle Chair regards the gentleman from McLean [Mr. Benjamin] as entitled to the floor, if he desires to move any amendment. Mr. GOODHUE. Mr. Piesident- I move to lay the proposition offered by the gentleman from Cook [Mr. Anthony] on the table. Mr. ANTHONY. Mr. President: I call for the yeas and nays. The yeas and nays were ordered, and, being taken, resulted-yeas 46; nays 22 — as follows: Allen of Alex.lHaines of C'ok,Peirce, Anthony, Harwood, Ross, Browning, Hay, Scholfield, Buxton, Haves, Sherrill, Coolbaugh, Medill, Wall, Craig, Merriam, Washburn, Dement, Moore, Wells, Ellis, Parks, Whiting-26. Fox, Perley, ABSENT. OR NOT VOTING. Anderson, Hanna, Skinner, Brown, King, Truesdale, Bryan, Neece, Wendling, Cameron, Pillsbury, Mr. President-14. Hainesof L'ke,Robinson, So the motion of Mr. Underwood, to lay on the table the amendment offered by Mr. Medill, was agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon concurrence. Mr. ARCHER. Mr. President: Is it in order nowto offer an amendment to the section? The PRESIDENT. It is not, to the section. The Convention is deal ug with the amendment of the Committee of the Whole. The amendment of the Committee of the Whole was agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the next amendment of the Com r mittee of the Wiole, which is to strike out the word "salary," an:d insert the words "said compensation." The amendment of the Committee of the Whole was agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the next amendment. The Secretary will read the section added. The Secretary read section eight, as follows: SEc. 8. All laws fixing the fees of State, county and township officers, shall terminate with the terms of the incumbents in office, at the meeting of the first General Assembly after the adoption of this Constitution; and the General Assembly shall, by general law, uniform in its operation, provide for and regulate the fees of the successors to said offiers, so as to reduce the same to a reasonable compensation for services actually rendered. But the General Assembly may classify the YEA.S. Abbott, Forman, Allen of Crwfd,Fuller, Archer, Gamble, Atkins, Goodell, Baynae, Goodhue, Benjamin, Hankins, Bowman, Harwood,Bromwell, Hay, Browning, Hildrup, Cary, McCoy, Church, McDowell, Cody, Parker, Cross, Parks, Cummings, Peirce, Eldredge, Poage, ZEnglish, NAYS. Anthony, Hart, Buxton, Hayes, , Coolbaugh, Medill, Craig, Merriam, Dement, Moore, Ellis, Perley, Fox, Ross, Raines of Cook, CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION WF,DNF,SDAY) 1518 YEAS. Sharp, Snyder, Springer, Sutherland, Tincher, Tubbs, Turner' Underwood, Vandeventer, Wagner, Wait, Wheaton, Wilson, Wright-43. Abbott, Forman, Allen of Cr'fd.,Fuller, Archer, Gamble, Atkins, Goodell, Bayne, Goodhue, Benjamin, Hankins, Bowman, Hart, Bromwell, Hildrup, Cary, McCoy, Church, McDowell, Cody, Parker, Cross, Poage, Cummings, Rice, Eldredge, Sedgwick. English, NA.YS. Rice, Scholfield, Sedgwick, Sharp, Sherrill, llnyder, Spr. ldger, Sutherland, Tincher, Tubbs, Turiaer Uinderw'ood,. Wait, I Wheato Wright!!46. Vandeventer, Waguer, warl, Washburn, Wells, Whitinz. Wilisc,d,22. .&BSENT, OR NOT VOTING. Alle-nof Alex.,Haines ofL'ke,Robinson, A-nderson, Hanna, Skinner, Brown King, Truesdale, Bryan, Neece, Wendlin —. Cameron, Pillsbury, Mr. PresidetX, 15. So the motion of Mr. Goodhue, to lay upon the table the amendment offered by Mr. Anthony, was agreed to. Mr. MEDILL. Mr. President: I wish to offer an ai-nendment to the pending section. When the vote was taken on the amendment offered by my colleague [Mr. Hayesl:a inumber of gentlemen objected to it on the Lrround that, while it placed in the power of the board of supervisors authority to fix the compensation of county officers, it did not provide for any reduction of fees. They said to me that if it were a proposition that would enable the board of supervisors to reduce fees, as well as fix compensation, they Would vote for it. So I understood then, at all events. I, therefore, offer the followidg ameddmedt, for, the purpose of testing their j3incerity. This is all I Repropose to offer APRIL 27, 1870. DIBATES AD POCEEDIGS. 1519 Wheaton] how a man can be an incumbent unless he is in office? Mr. WHEATON. Mr. President: I did not desire to change the phraseology of the section. I wish simply to make plain what the Constitution means. The PRESIDENT. The Secretary will read the tenth and eleventh lines. The Secretary read the tenth and eleventh lines of section eight, as follows: This article shall not be construed as de priving the General Assembly of the power to reduce the fees of existing incumbents. Mr. UNDERWOOD. Mr. President: It is already intimated as to sheriff s. I think the idea is to reduce the fees of such "officers," instead of "incumbents." How is it now? The PRESIDENT. All existing officers. The motion of Mr. Wheaton to insert, "who may be" after "incumbents," was agreed to. Mr. UNDERWOOD. Mr President: I move to strike out the worli "existing," and insert the word "such." Then the language will apply to those in office at the time the General Assembly meets. Mr. PERLEY. Mr. President: I had my attention called to the misconstrue tion of wh t was section nine, as to the terms of incumbents in office. If we read the three first lines as I will read them, it seems to me no change is needed "All laws, etc., shall end." There cannot then be any question about it. "All laws, etc., shall terminate when the terms of' incumbents in office shall end." I move that, if it is in order, to make it read in that manner. The PRESIDENT. The amendment of the gentleman from Marshall [Mr. Perley] is 11ot in order. Mr. xUNDERWOOD. Mr. President: I think the chlange in the eleventh line wholly unnecessary. I move to strike out the tenth and eleventh lines. Mr. GOODHUE. Mr. President: I am opposed to the motion of the gentleman r,)m St. Clair [Mr. Underwood]. I see, right there in the tenth and eleventh lines, a power left with the Legislature to gratifv these gentlemen from Cook, by reducing their salaries. I have no dis position to deprive them of that power. We want to leave this power in the Constitution so plainly that there can be no mistake about it. The question being on the motion of Mr. Underwood to strike out, it was not agreed to. Mr. PERLEY. I move to amend, as fi~llows: Strike out "with" in second line, and insert "when;" and insert after "Constitution," in third line the words "shall end." Mr. ARCHER. Mr. President: I offer the following amendment to the amendment: ffered by the gentleman from Mar shall [Mr. Perley]: After the word "incumbents,"' in second line, insert the words "now in office;" strike out the words'in office at the meeting ot;", in second line, and insert the words "and the first General Assembly held under this Constitution, after the expiration of the terms of said incumbents." Sir. lHAY That would defeat the whole object of the amenedment, as it would deprive the Legislature of the power of acting up)on this until the new officers elected would be:)n their backs, to fix the fees to suit themselves. Mr. WHEATON. Mr. President: I move to lay the amendment of the gen tleman from Pike [Mr. Archer] on the tab le. Mr. ARCHER. Mr. President: I will now offer my amendment. After the word "incumbent," in the second line, insert the words "now in office." Strike out tbe words " in office at the meeting of," in the second line, and insert "and the first General Assembly held under this Constitution after the expiration of the term of said incumbents." The section would then read in this way: SEc. 8. All laws fixing the fees of State, county and township officers, shall terminate with the terms of the incumbents now in office, and the first General Assembly held under this Constitution, after the expiration of the terms of said incumbents, shall, by general law, uniform in its operation, provide for and regulate the fees of the successors to said officers, so as to reduce the same to a reasonable compensation for services actually rendered. But the General Assembly may classify the counties by population into not more thant hree classes,and regulate the fees according to class. No increase of the fees of any of said officers shall be allowed to take effect as to any incumbent in office, when such increase shall take effect. This article shall not be construed as depriving the General Assembly of the power to reduce the fees of exist. ing officers. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the motion of the gentleman from Katne [Mr. Wheaton], to "ay upon the table the amendment proposed by the gentleman-from Pike [Mr. Archer]. The motion was agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is now upon the amendment of the gentleman from Marshall [Mr. Perlev] to strike out the word "with," in the second line, and insert "when," and add after the word "Constitution," in the third line, the words "shall end." The amendment offered by Mr. Perley was not agreed to. Mr. ANTHONY. Mr. President: I move to amend the fourth line by insertin(, after the word next to the last the words "such officers," because we have used that expression above in the motion of the gentleman from Stephenson [Mr. Turner]. The amendment offered by Mr. Anthony was agreed to. Mr. ALLEN, of Crawford. Would a substitute for the sectio,n be in order? The PRESIDENT. A substitute to the entire section would be in order, it having been inserted in Committee of the Whole. Mr. ALLEN, of Crawford. I offer the follo(wing as-a substitute. The Seer(tary read the substitute offere~d by Mr. Allen, of Crawford, as follows: The General Assembly shall, at its first session after the adoption of this Constitution, by a law uniform in its operation, regulate the fees and salaries of all county officers, which said law shall be in force from and after the day on Mwhich said se ssion of the General Assembly shall end. But the General Asse~mbly may classify the count ies by pop ula tion into not more than three classes, and regulate the fees according to class. Mr. ALLEN, of Crawford. Mr. President: It; seems to me that will obviate the difficulties that have grown out of the c,7nst~ruction of the section as adopted inl Co:mmittee of Mie Whole, and will provide fo~r just what the people want, so fOr as the fees of county oficers are concerned. As I took occasion to state ouce before, while this question was before us upon another section, I am opposed to salaries fr co~unty officers. I believe it will result in much evil, ~nld line, and insert the words "At the time of t he adoption of this Constitution. And the first General Assembly after the adoption of this Constitution shall." Mr. HAY. I think it would be better to irsert "at the time of the adoption of the Constitution," instead of from "at" in the second line, to "Constitution" in the third line. We elect sheriffs this fall, and by making this change in the style of the article, we obviate any difficulty there would be in an interregnum between the time of the adoption of this Constitution and the meeting of the next General Assembly, when there would be no law by which the sheriffs could collect any fees. Mr. ARCHER. Will the gentleman from Sangamon [Mr. Hay] allow me to suggest that this amendment will obviate the difficulty: After the word "incumbents," in the second line, insert the words, "now in office;" strike out the words "in office at the meeting of," in second line, and insert the words, "and the first General Assembly held under this Constitution, after the expiration of the terms of said incumbents." Mr. CODY. Mr, President: Will the gentleman allow me to read this section once? I think the difficulty is in the punctuation. If it is read without acomma after the word "(office," in the second line, the meaning will be clear. The ob ject, as I understand it, was to provide that the fees of those in office when the Legislature shall meet, shall terminate with their terms of office, and it will then be the duty of the General Assembly to create a new rate of fees, uniform in their operation. I think the section is right as it is. Mr. UNDERWOOD. Mr. President: I would ask the gentleman from Sangamon [Mr. Hay] if section six does not do away with the necessity of lines eight and nine, of section eight? The provision in section six is as follows: Provided, That the compensation of no officer shall be increased or diminished during his term of office. All fees or allowances by them received, in excess of their said compensation, shall be paid into the county treasury. . Lines eight and nine of section eight are as follows: No increase of the fees of any of said officersr shall be allowed to take effect, as to any incumbent in office, when such increase shall take effect. I take it that litles eight and nine should be stricken oult, and I move that they be stricken out The mo~tionl was agreed to. Mr. t' URNER. Mr. President: I think there shouhi be an amendment in line eleven. I think the word "inlcumbenlt" should be stricken out, and the word '"officers" inserted. The PRESIDENT'. The questicon is upon the m(~tion o:f the gentleman from Stephenson [Mr. Turner], to strike out in the eleventh line the wo~rd "incumbent," and insert the word "oUfficers." The motion was agreed to. Mr WHIEAT[ON. Mr. President: I move now an amendment to the amendmenet of the genltlemnan from Sangamen [Mr. Hay]. Ill the second line insert after the word "incumubent," the words-"who may be." The PRESIDENT. The question is upon tile m(l~tionl of the gentleman from lRane [Mr. Wheat. o]. Mr. BROMwELL. Mr. President: I - ven ld ask the gentleman fr'omm Kane [~r' APRIL 27, 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1519 1520 COST UTIOXAL GONYETIOX WEDNESDAY, And all existing laws fixing fees and salaries of such officers shall terminate at the end of said session. Mr. ALLEN, of Crawford. I accept that. tMr. CARY. I would also offer a suggestion. The legislative article fixes the time thelaw is to go into operation-the first of July. I woald suggest to the gentleman from Crawford [Mr. Allen] to so amend his substitute. Mr. ALLEN, of Crawford. "Unless otherwise provided" is better. I want this done at the earliest moment possible. The Legislature may put the law in force at an earlier day, and I want it to be enfbrced on the day this session shall ternminate. Mr. BROWNING. I wish to move an additional amendment, which the gentleman from Crawford [Mr. Allen] will p robably accept. One provision of the sulwbstitute requires the fees of officers to be uniform throughout the State. Another provision requir(s the counties to be arranged into three classes, arid a separate tariff of fees to be adjusted for each cla ss. I suggest to add after "operation." the words, "inicounties of the samne class." Mr. ALLEN, of Crawford. I accept the amendment. That makes the matter more explicit. Mr. ATKINS. I wish to suggest a still further amendment to the sixth line, so that it would read "The General Assembly may by general law, etc.," and not as now by a great variety of special laws. Mr. ALLEN, of Crawford. I do not think the amendment would be necessary at all. The PRESIDENT. The question is on striking out the section, and inserting the substitute as amended. The Secretary read the substitute offeare d by Mr. Allen, of Crawford, as amended, as follows: The General Assembly shall, at its first session alter the adoption of this Constitution, by a law uniform in its operation in counties of the same class, regulate the fees and salaries of all county officers, which said law shall be in force from and after the day on which said session of the General Assembly shall end. But the General Assembly may classify the counties by population into not more than three classes, and regulate the fees according to class. And all existing laws fixin g fees and salaries of such officers shall terminate at the end of said session. Mr. BROWNING. It would be an improvement to transpsne the order of things a little; and begin by saying-"t he General Assembly shall classify the counties," etc, and then proceed to the pro-. visions for adjusting fees. orMr. VANDEVENTER. I desire the question to be first taken on the motion to strike out. uThe PRESIDENT. The question is upon striking out section eight. The yeas and nays were orderaed, and being taken, resulted-yeas, 28; nays, 39 - - -as follows place t he county b o ard, or board of superv isors, it a posi tion, where, from time to t ime, they will be annoy ed by the county officers, and be subject to undue influences, to increase, either their pay, or the clerical force o f the offices, and that it will be a source of constant annoyance and disturbance in the counties of the State. Now, sir, I propo se, by this section, to r equire t he Legislature, at its first session, to ta ke up the question of fees and salari es, if an y officer s of the county shall be salaried officers, and legislate upon them. T'hey will come fresh from the people, aft er all these questions will have been fully discussed, and it will be, in my ju dgmen t, th e s hortest way that the people can find relief. At the first meet iDg of the General Assembly, men elected fresh from the people, familiar with the wants of their respective counties, with the business interests of their respective counties, will go to work upon this question that has excited so much interest and discussion here. I shall not fear the influence the incumbents may have upon the members of the Legislature in the regulation of this question, where legislation must be unifbrm. I think it is the shortest, and, perhaps, the best solution of this troublesome question that this Convention can adopt. If there be complaints on the part of the people of the county, that the fees ot the county officers are too high, the representatives of the people will be held to strict accountability for the manner in which they exercise their power in regulating these fees. This- provision then, taken in connection with the other provisions of this article, prohibiting the changing of the fees of officers hereafter to be elected, during their terms of office, will, in my judgment, work a very salutary reform upon this subject. The Legislature can then remedy the evils that Cook county complains of, in such a manner as will be acceptable to the people of Cook county, and if there be in that county that overwhelming sentiment against the continuance or' these exorbitant fees which have been spoken of by members of that delegation upon this floor, I feel very confident that no member from that county will have the temerity to stand up and oppose the universal wishes of thle peopleas to their reduction, So it will be as to every other county. In nmy section of the State, there is 110 complaint uponn the subject. Out officers are discharging their duties under' a scale of fees fixedd in 1848, under our present Constitution. We have no complaint of that sort to make there. They are able only to eke out a beggarly subsistence from their fees. In the other counties all trouble will be remedied by requiring the Legislature so to legislate as to bring them down where they ale too high. Mr. BROMZWELL. Mr. President: I would ask the gen~tlemnan from Crawford [Mr. Allen] what security there is that the General Assemblly will act, if he leaves out that provisio~n in the section which cuts o~ff the existing aw? That was done with a view to compelling the Legislature to go about this work, while the substitute leaves it as a mandatory provision, and they will do as they please. Mr. BENJAMIN. I would ask the gentleman from Crawford to accept the following amendment to hi~ substitute:, Allen, of Alx.T,Hanna, Skinner, Brown, King, Truesdale, Bryan, Neece, Wall, Cameron, Pillsbury, Wells, Forman, Robinson, Mr. President-16. Haines of L'k, So the motion of Mr. Allen, of Crawford, to strike out section e ight was not agreed to. Mr. ATKINS. Mr. President: I wish to offer an amendment after the word "may" following General Assembly, in line six add the words "by general law." Mr. UNDERWOOD. Mr. President: I would ask the gentleman if he does not recollect that in the legislative article we provide that all laws relating to fees shal l be generall Mr. ATKINS. That is correct, but this special clause relates only to the subject of "classification of counties." We have upon the statute book divers special laws that provide that in some counties, county and circuit clerks, sheriffs and treasurers shall have fees according to the different schedules from those fixed for others. It may be that by some forced construction, these special laws may be construed as a sort of division or classification of the State into classes, in conformity with this section. To obviate that result, I cffer this amendment, so that there shall be but one general law in force, which shall divide the counties of the State into three several classes, and thereby require laws to be passed fixing uniform fees as to each one of these classes. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the amendment proposed by the gentleman from Morgan [Mr. Atkins]. After the word "may" in the sixth line insert the words "by general law." The amendment was agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the ninth section-concurrence with the Committee of the Whole. The Secretary will read the ninth section. The Secretary read section nine, as follows: SEEc. 9. The county affairs of Cook county shall be managed by a board of commissioners of fifteen persons, ten of whom shall be elected from the city of Chicago, and five from towns outside of said city, in such manner as may be provided by law. The PRESIDENT. If there are no amendments to the section, it will be declared concurred in. The question is upon the adoption of the first section. The Secretary read section one, as follows: SEC. 1. No new county shall be formed or established by the General Assembly which will reduce t;:e county or counties, or either of them, from which it shall be taken, to less contents than four hundred square miles;* nor shall any county be formed of less contents; nor shall any line thereof pass within less than ten miles of any county seat of the county or counties proposed to be divided. Mr. CODY. Mr. President: Is there no question as to the seventh section? The PRESIDENT. There was no amendment to that sectiota 1620 CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION WEDNESDAY, Bromwell, Church, Cody, Craig, Cross,. Cummings, Dement' Eltis, English, Goodell, Hart., Harwood, H.Y, McCoy, Merriam, Moore, Perley, Peirce, Poage, Rice, Springer, S.th".,J..d, Tubbs, Underwood, Vandeventer, Wagner, Washburn Wendliug, Wheaton, Whiting-39 ABSENT, OR NOT VOTING. YEAS. Abbott, Eldredge, Alleu, of Crfd.,Fox, Archer, Fuller Atki-ns' Gamble, BeniaM!D, Hayes, Bowman, Hildrrup, BrowniDg, McDoivell, Buxto-n, Me-dill, Cary, Parker, Coolba-ugh, Parks. Scholfield, Sharp, Snyder,, I Tincher, Turner, Wait,' WIISO' D, Wrighf-28. NA.YB. Goodhue, Ross, Haines ofcook, Sedewick. Hankins, Sherill,' Anderson, Anthony, , Bayne, DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. see some very good reasons for this. Ther may be large cities which it may be de sirable to form into separate counties b themselves. In Michiganthere is a special provision that cities above a certain population may be formed into counties, without contain ing the four hundred square miles re quired in their Constitution. With the prospect of so many large cities in the State, I think this power should be left with the Legislature and people. The question being on the adoption o the amendment offered by Mr. Cross, to strike out "nor shall any county belformed of less contents," the yeas and nays were ordered, and being taken, resulted-yea 23, nays 34-as follows: H arwood, Hay, Hayes, Medill, Merriam, Moore Parks, Perley, Peirce, Rice, Mr. CROSS. Mr. President: I move to amend the first section bv striking ou in ithe t hird and fourth lines, the word "nor sh al l a ny county be formed of les contents." The PRESIDENT. The question i upon the amendment proposed by the gen tleman from Winnebago [Mor. C ross]. Mr. ABBOTT. Mr. President: I move as an amendment, the f irst section in th s minority report on counties, be substi tuted in the place of sections one and tw( on counties, in the majority report or counties. I am urged and impelled t~ make this motion, in justice to the great num ber of our fellow-citizens who have their homes and f arms at great an d Co t un reasonable distance f rom their county seats, and also bec ause this C onvention id t he onl y exec utiv e power, by its present l egal organization, which can relieve and guarantee to th es e i solat ed people, their freedom and right to extricate themselves from their at present humiliated, and worse than land of Egypt bondage, from their law-privileged chartered county seats, by the enactment of a fundamental law in accordance w ith the substitute section. I respectfully call the attention of the Convention to the many petitions of the truly complaining supplicants for justice and relief now at the discretion and in the power and gift of this Constitutional Convention. I contend that a favorable and successful consideration ought to be the action ot this honorable body, and especially so as this Convention is to all intents and purposes a representative body politic and organic in its powers, etc. It is anticipated and expected by members, and also by the public, that this Convention will before long close its constitutional and organic labors, and the anxious expectant citizens at the remote parts of our large counties are afraid, from the action of the Committee of the Whole on counties, their needs, wishes and desires as expressed in their memorials, will fail of redress and relief; and in such an event, alas for them, it may be many, many years before another Constitutional Convention may again be convened to afford the proper and effectual remedy. I call for the reading of the petitions now in the care of the Clerk, that members may know their contents. Mr. CARY. Mr. President: I think the amendment offered by the gentleman from Winnebago [Mr. Cross] is just and proper. Suppose, for instance, that the country portions of Cook county should be placed in such a position as to be absolutely governed by the city of Chicago, it might be necessary, mn order to protect the people outside of the city, to form a new county of the city. No one doubts that the city has sufficient population for a county, but two counties, each embracing four hundred square miles} could not be formed out of Cook county. I speak of Chicago and Cook county only for the pur pose of illustration. I think it may be proper to put in a limwitation, so that a county shall not be reduced to less than a certain definite size (and, perhaps, the present limitation is not out of the way), but the proposition of my friend from Winnebago [Mr. Cross] does not interfere with this, but only seeks to allow new counties to be formed of less size, if the people of all the counties interested desire it. Ica r Brown, Kinz, Skinner, l Bryan, McDowell, Truesdale, Cameron, Neece, Wall, f Cary, Pillsbury, Wells Gamble, Poawe, Wendlin o D IainesofLake,Robinson, Mr.President-20. [ Hanna, Sedgwick, e So the motion ofeMr. Turner to strike s out all of section one a fter t he word "contents," in line four, was no t agreed to. Mr. PARKER. I move to strike out "ten" and ins e rt " ei ght," in t he fourth line. The motion was not agreed to. Mr. TURNER. Mr. President: I pro pose an amendment. I do not know whether it w ill meet the approbation of any gentleman h ere, although it strikes me that it may at some time be very val uable in this Consti t ution. After the word "miles," in the thi r d line, intsert But any city having a population of two hundred thousand or more may be organized int o a separate coun ty. Whereve r t her he have been large cities in o ther States, the organizing them into s eparate counties has been found to work well. Whe re any considerable portion of territory is attached to a city, the terri tory so attached, becomes to a good de gree, tributary to the city, and city gov ernments are sometimes embarrassed greatly by their connection with a large country outside the city limits. I do not know that any city in the State- in fact, we have n only one which has two hundred thousand population desires at this time, or ever will desire, to have such a change made, but it seems to m e quite pr obabl e that in the next te n or fifteen or twenty years, the city of Chicago, and perhaps some other cities in the State, may feel as though they would be glad to have their city organ ized into a separate county. A division was ordered. The Convention divided, when, there being twenty-six in the affirmative and eighteen, in the negative, the amendment offered by Mr. Turner was agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the motion of the gentleman from Scott [Mr. Abbott], to strike out the first and second sections, and insert the first section of the article reported by the mi nority of the standing committee. The Secretary read section one of the minority report of the Committee on Counties, as follows: S3ECTIO~ 1. Whenever two-thirds of the legal voters of any territory of any county, or of the contiguous territory of' two or more counties, containing not less than two hundred and fifty square miles, and of inhabitants not less than eight thousand, shall petition -the General Assembly that they desire to form a new county, accuratelv setting forth and describing the boundaries of such new county, the General Assemblyr shall, byr act, provide and establish said territory as a new county: _Provided, That no territory for the purpose of forming a new county shall be taken from any established county which will reduce it to a less size than four hundred square miles. The motion of Mr. Abbott, to strike out sections one and two, and insert se Abbott, Eldredge, Snyder, Allen of Alex. Ellis, Turner, Allen of Crfd.,Fuller, Wagner, Bayne, Haines of CookWashiburn, Cary, Hart, Wheaton, Church, Hildrup, Whiting, Cody, McCoy, Wilson-23. Crosse, Parker, Rice, Ross, Sharp, Sherri,1, Springer, Sutherland, Tincher, Tubbs, ~andeventer, Wait, Wright-34. ABSENT, OR NOT VOTING, Anthony, King, Sedgwick, Brown, McDowell, Skinner, Bryan, Merriam, Truesdale, Cameron, Neece, Underwood, Coolbaugh, Peirce, Wall, Forman, Pillsbury, Wells, Gamble, Poage, Wendling, Haines of Lake,Robinson, Mr. President-26. Hanna, Scholfield, So the amendment offered by Mr. Cross was not agreed to. Mr. WASHBURN. Mr. President: I move to amend by inserting after the word "contents," in the fourth line, the words "than two hundred and fifty square miles." The amendment was not agreed to. Mr. TURNER. Mr. President: I move to strike out all after the word "contents" in the fourth line. The only reason I have, Mr. President, for offering that amendment, is that, sometimes, bends in rivers, or railroad crcsings, or the peculiar conformation of the country, may make it necessary or convenient to bring the line of a new county within less than ten miles of the county seat. The yeas and nays were ordered, and being taken, resulted-yeas, 16; nays, 47 -as follows: i A.PRIL 27, 1870, 1521 Bowman, Bromwell, Browning, Buxton, Church, Coolbaugh, Craig, Cummings, Dement, Ellis, Tineber, Underwood, Vandeventer, Wa,ner, wai, Washburn, Whiting, Wilson, Wright-47.' ABSENT, OR NOT VOTING. yS. NA.YS. Fox, Goodell, Goodhue, Hankins, Harwood, Hay, Hayes, Anderson, Archer, Atkins, Benjamin, Bowman, Bromwell, Browning, Buxton, Craig, Cummings, Dement, English,. YEA.S. Abbott, Fuller' Allen of Alex,Goodhe, Allen of Crlfd,,ar' Cody, Idipl Cross, MCCOV, Eldredge, Parker, Scholfip,ld, Tubbs,. Turnei, Wheato'n-16. NAYS. En_vlish, Ross, Forman, Sharp, Fox, Sherrill, Goodell' Snyder,4 Haines of Colk,SDrin —er Hankins, Sthrla'nd, Anderson, Anthony, Archer, Atkins Bayne,' Benjamin, 15wCrTTTOA OY~1~'WD~DY been stricken from a county, no further port ion of the territory of such county shall be stricken therefrom, without the vote and majority in this section provided for. lulr. GOODHUE. This is a blow aimed at my county, and I shall be compelled to move to lay it on the table. Mr. HAINES, of Cook. There is one objection I made before the Committee of the Whole. I would like to raise it here now. -Mr. GOODHUE. I withdraw. aMr. HAINES, of Cook. This is a very insidious amendment. It absolutely author zes the Legislature to form counties without the consent of the people. Mr. GOODHUE. I move to lay it on the table. The motion was agreed to. The PRESIDENT. If there are no further amendments to be proposed, section two will be declared adopted. The question is on the third section, which the Secretary will read. The Secretary read section three, as follows: SEc. 3. There shall be no territory stricken from any county, unless a majority of the voters living in such territory shall petition for such division; and no territory shall be added to any county without the consent of the majority ofthe voters ofthe county to which it is proposed to be added. But the portion so stricken off and added to another county, or formed in whole or in part into anew county, shall be holden for, and obliged to pay its proportion of the indebtedness of the county tefrom which it has been taken. tThe PRESIDENT. The section will be declared adopted. The question is now on the fourth section as amended. Mr. BENJAMIN. Mr. President: I will now move to strike out from the third and fourth lines the following words: In all cases where a county seat has been located -- years, and. Also, to strike out from the seventh line the words, "two-thirds," and insert "three-fifths." Mr. HAINES, of Cook. Has the third section been adopted? The PRESIDENT. Yes; but as its adoption was assumed, it can be considered again, if the gentleman requires. Mr. BENJAMIN. There are two principles involved in section four. There is considerable force in the arguments which have been advanced in favor of each of them-one, the principle that the majori- ty should rule, and the other the prilciple that there should be some permanency in the location of county seats. By adopting this amendment we take a medium ground. It has occurred to me-that in order to secure permanency, but not to have that permanency secured by a rule too stringent, we had better substitute "three-fifths" instead of "two-thirds." The counties which I have the honor, in part, to represent, have no special interest in this question. The subject was thoroughly discussed this morning, and, therefore, I shall not further occupy the; time of the Convention. Mr. ALLEN, of Alexander. Mr. President: I move to amend the amendment offered by the gentleman from McLean [Mr. Benjamin]. I move to strike out the entire proviso. I do not feel in a condition to support my amendment by any remarks, or at furthest, by more than a few words. The preceding portion of this section, it is well known to every one, is the same as our present Constitution. I do tion one of the minority report, was not agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon section one. Section one was agreed to. The PRESIDENsT. Th e question is upon section two. Are there amendments to be prposed to it? Th e Secretary read section two, as follows: SEC. 2 No county shall be'divided, or have any part stricken therefrom, without submitting the question to a vote of the people of the county, nor unless a majority of all the legal voters of the county, voting on the question, shall vote for the same. AMr. CODY. Mr. President: When this section was before the Committee of the Whole, I offered an amendment to it., No objection was raised except one based upon grounds which I have endeavored to obviate in this amendt::ent. My amendment is as follows: Insert in the first line after the word "part" the words, "exceeding seventy-two square miles;" and add at the end of the section: "Provided, That when seventy-two square miles or less shall have been stricken fi-om a county, no further portion of the territory of such county shall be stricken therefrom without the vote and majority in this section provided for." I will state the object of this amend ment. There are small localities in the State where, if the people in those particular localities, and in the counties to which they are attached, could express their choice upon the matter, they would have their location changed from one county to the other, in order to enable them to do their county business where they transact their other business. The objection made to this before was that after this had once been done, the operation might be repeated, and in that way the county might continue to lose its territory, without having a voice in the matter. The amendment which I now propose, prevents its being done but once. Now, there is another view, which, if the gentlemen will consider for a moment, will have some force. People liv ilng in small portions of terr'tory could often so change their county relations as to make permanent the present county.seats, and give peace and permanence where now the most unpleasant controversies exist. The amount of territory in behalf of which I ask this provision made is small. It applies only to two townships or less. It can be done but once, and only once, upon a vote and a petition of a majority of all the people living in the territory to be affected by it, and by a majority vote of thle people living in the territory, and of the people of the county to which it is to be attached. As the Constitution now is, it would be impossible to make these changes, for the reason that no countyr would part with any portion of its territory, however small. The question of taxation is a tender one, and can always be used to preventallowing any portion of the people to exchange their county relations, no matter blow mnuch they may be accommodated or benefited thereby. I will read the section, with amenldmenlt. Sac. ~. No county shall be divided, or have any part exceeding seventy-two square miles stricken therefromfi without submitting the question to a vote of the people of the county, nor unless a majority of all the legal voters of the county, voting on the question, ~hall vote for the same: _Protgided, that whenl seventy-two square miles or less shall have 1522 CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION WEDNIIISDAY) not think that can be well improved upon. There may have been controversies, and, doubtless, have been with reference to moving county seats, which may have been unfortuiaate. But those things are wholly unavoidable. In theory there is no difference between a threefifths and two-thirds vote, for in either case we ignore the idea of a majority. S,'r, let the people immediately interested have the privilege of deciding the question as to where the county s,,at shall be, in obedience to what has been understood to be the well settled doctrine in this country-that a majority shall be sufficient to settle the question. I have no personal interest in the matter, but I do not feel like lending my sanction to a principle like this. I hope the entire proviso will be stricken out, as, in my opinion, it is not consistent with any true principle. Mr. GOODHUE. Mr. President: Would it be in order to move a substitute for the entire section? The PRESIDENT. It is in order to move a substitute for the entire section. Mr. GOODHUE. Mr. President: I move the following substitute for the section: Strike out the proviso and insert, "and the question of removing County seats rhall. not be submitted to a vote of the people any oftener than once in ten years.'' Mr. CODY. I would like to call the attention of the gentleman to a modi.fica. tion which I will sug-est. It wilt be re. membered that in the legislative article it is provided that all laws ia reference to removing county seats shall be general. I would suggest that the gentleman modifv his substitute, so as to make it conform to the legislative article, by changing the second line so that it will read'pursuant to law," in place of "fixed by law." Mr. GOODHUE. Mr. President: I accept the amendment. I desire to make a few remarks in relation to this question and upon the substitute. One thing is very manifest, that there are two classes of counties here pulling in opposite directiods. The representatives from those counties are aiaxious and earnest. It seems to me we ought to adopt some principle, some method of removing co,unty seats, that will not array hostility API 27 80 )B~' N RCkDNS.12 established, involves loss to the county, which is compelled, of necessity, again to erect public buildings at the expense of the tax payers of the county, a part of whom are also injured by the fact of the removal of the county seat. No county. seat can be removed after it has long been established, without injury to the citizens who, upon the faith of the location of the county-seat, have invested their money or property and become citizens of the place at which it has been established or within its vicinity. They have made their investments upon the faith of some permanence in the establishment of the countyseat at the particular point. It may be contended that they did so, subject to such changes as might be e ffected in pursuance of law. ConLceding this to be true, the law effecting the change should jealously guard individual rights and work no loss of property unless the pablic welfare absolutely demands it. The chief question now presented ishow can those rights best be guarded and protected, having ill view both the public and the individual? In any one of the villages of this State which is a county seat, property is worth at least twice or three times as much as it would be if the county seat were removed to some other point. This, of course, would not be true ip the case of cities. It is so, however, in the case of villages. The citzens who settle there on the faith of the location of the county seat, are thus injured, in this proportion, and the people living at the point to which the removal is made, are in the same degree enriched; while the tax imposed to cause that removal and erect the necessary public buildings, fills alike upon those who are injured and those who are benefited. Again, in every county where a county seat has once been established, and encouragement is given to changes by a vote of the people, a bitter spirit of strife and contention is engendered, which interferes with the public prosperity of the county in a hundred different forms. It can be seen and felt in every appropriation to be made out of the county revenue. It extends through every public act-every nomination or election for municipal officers is controlled by it. Now, I ask the Convention, in view of these facts, is it right, upon the vote of a mere majority, to divest property holders of their rights, to unsettle the afsfairs of a county, when that majority may not be a majority of the tax payers, or even of the bonaftde citizens of the county? A majority of a single vote is as complete and satisfactory, upon a ques tion of this kind, as a majority of thousands. That majority of one may be caused by a transient "loafer," who has no substantial or permanent interest in the county at all. It may be caused by mere trickery or chicanery. I ask if, when we are going to do an act affecting so seriously the rights of the people, as that of removing a county seat, it is not right and proper that we should have an assurance that the public necessity really demands the change, and not merely that there is a seeming public demand for it? If the rule be adopted that two-thirds shall be required to effect a removal, it is safe to say that no more removals will take place until a real and unquestionable c public necessity requires it. If it be left c to a majority to determine it, that major APP.IL 27, 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1523 men who have called our attention to cases where the rule of permanency woiild be extremely udjust and unfair, and would operate powerfully on men of a certain class in the State to i -- duce them to vote against this Constitutio a. They have shown us instances where the county seat has been located for years at the ex treme portion of the county-upon the border almost. I see no reason why it should require two-thirds to remove the county seat under these peculiar circumstances. But at the same time we ought to protect the people against destroying themselves by a frequent repetition of these changes, and their attendant expense s Now, by adopting the substitute I have offered, it seems to me, sir, we shall deal as fairly with one party as with the other. We shall satisfy both those who wish to make it more difficult, and those who wish t) make it more easy to remove cou Lity seats. 3/ly substitute says: "Gentlemen, we propose to treat you fairly, we propose to say that majorities shall rule, but that some limitation shall be imposed on the power of majorities, by say iDg that they shall be allowed to submit these questions to a vote of the people only once in ten years." Now, sir, if the people have the right to vote on this question once in ten -years, it certainly ought to satisfy them. If they are not determined to bankrupt 1 he county with expense, they ought to be satisfied with voting as often as that. I say, I am in f vor of this,,ubstitute. It is a compromise as well as a statute of repose. It produces repose for ten- years, at least, but g.ves neither party any adVantage.. It certainly wou',-d not operate unfairly, but would operate with absolutu inipartialify. Alr. SCHOLFIELD. Mr. President: I had not intended to say anything to the Convention upon the merits of this article, for the reason that when it was under consideration in the Committee of the Whole, I gave my.,views upon it fully. Since then, however, a disposition has been manifested to change fr-)m the determination of the committee. Some gentlemen, indeed, have addressed the Convention to day, who were not present at that time, and urged considerations ity may be one thing to-day, aLd another thidg to-morr(.w. This leaves thou,adds of dollars in property to be affected by a Lnere transient, casual voter. Some gentlemen who have spoken on this question, say we live in a govern m(:,ut of majorities. They iiisi.-;t th,tt because in some instances majorities govern, they shallinthisinstancegovern. I,asktliese gentlemen if a majority of the people of the State of Illitiois controlled the location of the State capital? No. The people of the State of Illin(-,is, to the best of my recollection, -were never consulted upon the question. I ask the gentleman if a majority of the voters of the Ut)it(d States can amend the Constitution of the United States? No. I ask the gedtleman if a majority of the Legislal-lure, under the Constitution we are now iiiakidg, can pass a law over the Governor's veto? I ask agaiu, can gentlemen poitit to au instance where by a vote of a mere majority, without any restrictions or limitat,ioias, a public act can lawfully be done? Do they say it is so in the election of officers? I deny it. We, by this ConstitutiOD, impose limitations upon their elec. tion, and a ma, ority is just as powerless to transcend them as it is to destroy the world. Majorities caiinot elect offiers, unless they possess the prescribed qualific,itions. Majorities cannot change the rights.of individuals. A majoritycannot take private property for public use witlioutmakidgjustcompensation. Amajority cannot take the property of one individu,al and give it to another. A majority has no right to do injustice to anybody, in this country. Mr. WIIEATON. Does the gentleman know of a single instance, where the people themselves vote upon any qucstiod, where the majority does not govern? Mr. SCHOLFIELD. At present an instance does not occur to me w."lere the electors, in the aggregate mass, vote upou a question in which the ma- Iioritv does not determine; still I cann(;t conceive that there is anythiDL, in that argument, for the reason that it is a mere arbitrary regulation. The Constitution of the State prescribes who shal'.. vote. A majority of the people do not vote at all. We arbitrarily exclude women; we arbitrarily ex 154 CoNSTITJOXAL WEDNESDAY, merely because of the accident that five, ten, or fifteen years ago some property holders or speculators, taking their chances and risks for such investments, happened to buy or improve real estate in county seats, for their own profit, where the popular will carried out by a majority, would cause a result unfavorable to them? Is that the theory upon which we &re going to act on this question, whilst requiring that a majority of the people shall be required to elect all the officers of the State, that a majority of the peomay enact laws for all the people, and may form or change counties? Are we going to say, as we do in the first part of this section, that a county seat may be removed upon a majority vote under a general law? Are we going to establish that a s a general proposition, and to then turn right around, in the proviso to the same section, and disregard it entirely, simply on the claims of property, urged against the rigzhts of the people? Mr. SCHOLFIELD. Mr. President: Does not the gentleman know that in the article we have just adopted, we have rendered it utterly impossible for even t two-thirds of the voters of any county to create a county of less size than four hundred square miles? Mr. ATKINS. I will answer the gentleman. In 1847, the people of Illinois sent a Convention here to frame a Con stitution, and they framed one with the provision in it relating to forming new counties, which, when submitted to the vote of the people, was overwhelmingly ratified, and has been the supreme law of the State ever since. There has been no serious and general popular complaint about it. It has been in the Constitution for some twenty-two years, and there being no agitation for a change of it leading to the calling of this Convention together, it may and properly should be allowed to stand in the future in accordance with the public will, heretofore manifested and expressed. We are making a Constituition embracing an outline of general principles for the whole State. As a matter of course, there must be some arbitrary provisions in it; but neither the gentleman from Clark [Mr. Scholfield] nor any other gentleman here can point to an instance where, in the formation of this Constitution, we have not acted on the theory that the majority of the people were to rule, had the right to frame their government as they pleased, and elect offi cers as they pleased, although incidentally, the operation of that theory might injure somebody's investments or property. rWhen a man invests his money at a county seat, he takes his risk as to its continuance, as well as the man who invests his means in property at the State or national capital. What claim on the people has the man got who invests his money under the idea that the majority will not be permitted to rule? He harb ors the delusion that the majority must not rule, because his property would be unfavorably affected thereby. The first part of this section recog,nizes the correct principle that the majority of the people rule, and yet this proviso nullifies and repudiates it. Pray, on what ground? It is claimed that if a county seat has been located fcr twenty years, it should take a two-thirds vote of CONSTITUTIONAL CON'VENTION WEDNF,SDAY, 1524 the county to change or remove it. Upon what reason is that based? What is th-, principle underlying it? Mr. President, we all know that there are many towns which were prosperous,. fifteed, twenty or more years ago, that have gone or are DOW going to decay and ruin. Do we not know that there are many places in the State iaow, containing fl-ve thousand or ten thousand inhabitants, that fifteen or twenty years ago were unknown and unheard of-mere wild prairie and wastes? My friend from Logan [Mr. Parks] knows that where his county seat is, was seventeen or eighteen years ago a wild, unbroken prairie,.Nithout a habitation. I passed over it in 1853, when there was not a single house there, or a furrow broken, and yet there is now a flourish. iDg city there of near ten thousand people. Postville, two miles distant from Lincoln, was then quite a prosperous town; but now it is, or was sometime ago, in process of decay. Similar instances occur all over the State. To urge that simply because places were prosperous or flourishing, and fit for county seats, twenty years ago, they are equally fit and suitable iaow, and will be twenty, or fifteen, or even ten years hence, is an absurd pretension, and at war alike with principle, experience and common sense. This scheme in the proviso is devised in the interest of a few counties in this State peculiarly situated. By the language of this proviso, if there has been an election at any time inside of fifty years which resulted against removal, the majority cannot now be permitted to rule; it requires in such case a two-thirds vote. Can such action be maintained and justified? Isit in harmony with the theories on which the Federal and Slate governments rest, and the maxims by which we all profess to be politically guided in our actions? We all know, as a matter of course, that majorities occasionally err, do wrong, and commit acts of idjustice, but that is unavoida'ble, inevitable, and does not change the true theory of -our government or call for a departure from it. Mr. BAYNE. Mr. President: The gentleman from Morgan [Mr. Atkins] has made quite an eloquent speech, but I comped SatiOD, t- e damage beir, g such that the public will uot make compensation for it, yet the moral duty of the Legislature is the same in the one case as in the other. Mr. CHURCH. I would ask whether it does not require a two-thirds vote of property-holders, in order to make a street or sidewalk? lv'Lr. SCHOLFIELD. I tbaink the gentl.eiiian for the suggestion. I believe that is the law. I merely desire to say in conclusion, that when we undertake to base the right to remove county seats, upon popular majorities, because popular mzkioriries govern everything, we base it upon a popular error. A majority vote of all the people never was taken on anything. The vote is limited to less than one-fifth of the whole population, those who are arbi. trarily made electors, and even they invaribly exercise the right of-VOtiDg, UUder restrictions. I believe this limitation is reasonable and just, and that it will tend to promote prosperity and peace in the counties. Mr. ATKINS. Mr. President: I have always listened to the gentleman from Clark [Mr. Scholfield] with great interest and pleasure. I have been led by his fervid eloquence to give some votes in this Convention which, on mature reflection and deliberation, I have been satisfied were erroneous, and afterwards was constrained to reconsider. One resulted from a speech which he made many weeks ago upon making all the executive officers i the State ineligible to. re-election to office. I recollect well the eloquent speech he made on that occasion, and the magnetic and persuasive style in which he deliver, ed it. The policy he advocated then went through; but after a few weeks' reflection on the part of the members of the Convention, they decided within a very few days past to undo that whole work, aiid reverse their former action. The,gentleman from Clark [Nlr. Scholfield] has great reasoning powers, and is a gentleman of high and acknowledged ability,,for whom I entertain a very prof,-)und respect, and whose conclusions I am always very glad, when I consistently can, to adopt and follow. But it seems to me that on this occasion the arguments and the reasons be has advanced in sup APRIL 2, 1SO. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1525 provision. It is claimed that some pecu liar sanctity shouldattach to such invest ments, made year3I ago before railroads and telegraphs wore introduced. Mr. WRIGHT. Mr. President: I wish to ask a question. Mr. WALL. Mr. President: I see no reason to attach any such sanctity to such investments. The PRESIDENT. The gentleman from Mason [Mir. Wright] desires to ask a question. Does the gentleman from Perry [Mr. Wall] yield? Mr. WALL. I have not time, Mr. President. Nor do I see the propriety of attaching sanctity to one sort of property over another. But gentlemen say a majority rule has been productive of too frequent difficul ties, and that these controversies have, in many cases, produced great frauds in the elections. Why, sir, is it possible for the Convention to adopt any rule to prevent such difficulties in the future? We can not expect to correct all such misfortunes that may arise. We do not attempt to do it. But what are the difficulties here urg ed? That there are some fradulent votes cast at some elections; that there are fre quent agitations and frequent conti over sies; that many special acts have been passed for the removal of county seats. Well, sir, we have passed a section in the legislative article thai, obviates the latter objection. No special acts are to be pass ed. A stringent general law will be en acted, and thus the objections on ac count of special acts will be done away. If frequent controversies are to be expected from the continuance of the old rule, and no other cure can be devised, at least a limit of time can be fixed, as proposed by the gentleman from Will [Mr. Goodhue ] And, as to the matter of fraudulent votes, who expects to devise a system where men will not attempt by foul, to do what they cannot accomplish by fair means? If we expect to, we must reform men's consciences. I never expect to see that done by legislation. These arguments are specious and with out foundation, in my judgment. But gentlemen say it is not fair tnat a single man who is the last of the majority, should control and govern the affairs of the county as against the wishes of the minority. Sir, is it fair that one-third of the county should set itself up against the other two thirds, and thus control the municipal affairs of the county? It is an acknowledged principle and an established rule -one that gentlemen cannot deny-and the exceptions prove the rule —that the majority ought to and does govern. And this attempt to enforce the two thirds rule in matters of this sort is in violation of principle, without any sort of necessity, and cannot be jus~tified. b As I said this morning, Mr. President, there is always in every county a conservative feeling against the removal of a county seat, growing out of the taxation that necessarily follows, and the natural aversion of the people -to any change. These considerations amount to a great item, and they really give the county seatg a great advantage in the election. I do not think it is fair and reasonable to add to this the additional advantage of requiring a two-thirds vote. So far as I am concerned, personally, I bccupy perhaps as delicate a position as ordering an election at a time when far mers were busy putting in their crops. The people refused by a large majority, to remove the county seat. A few years ago, we were compelled to vote upon the removal to E1 Paso, situated at the crossing of the Central and the Peoria and Logansport road. Of course, the railroad companies would like to have the county seat located at the crossing. They had a large number of men at work there for thirty days prior to the election, or had them there at the expense of the people who desired the removal. They claimed a residence and voted, and I have no doubt several hundredfiraudulent votes were cast in my county at that election. Now, sir, there is no man, probably, who detests the two-thirds rule more than I do. Democrats, of course, detest it, because it broke their party all to pieces at Charleston. If we could leave the matter to a majority of the people of the county, or to a majority of the registered voters, I would be satisfied. But I understand that our supreme court have decided that a majority means a majority of those voting at the election. If that is the case, then there are but few cases where a majority could not be secured to carry a county-seat question. There are always plenty of men floating around about the country who can be bought for five dollars, or for lager beer. But if the threefifths, or two thirds, or a five-sixths rule prevailed, it would secure the people against this abuse. It always happens that some men forget the election, some are sick and cannot come out, or will not upon a question like this, and if only a majority is required it will frequently work injustice. It is always easy enough to get any number of these floating voters, who never have any taxes to pay, to vote for the removal, and compel the people to go to the expense and inconvenience of changing their county seat. This thing is not right, and I hope the Convention will fix the matter in some way by which the rights of the people will not be taken from them. Mr. WALL. Mr. President: The considerations urged by gentlemen who support a two-thirds rule in this matter, are, as I understand it, of a two-fold character. First, the necessity of permanency as to county seats, and second the difficulties that arise from having the question frequently agitated. I do not know that it is possible for this Convention to settle all the difficult question that will arise in the State. I do not think we should attempt to do it. I think the province of this Conlvention is to lay down general principles and general rules which have been found to work well in the past, and under those trust the fortunes of the State to the fu ture. The proposition that permanency is so important an item as to require the violation of a principle so long and well es tablished as the one that majorities should rule, seems to me to be entirely without foundation. It is said by gentlemen that those who have purchased property at county seats and invested their money there, have a right to insist that their investments shal~ be especially protected by ~constitutional 882 i DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. APP.IL 27, 1870. 1525 any gentleman on this floor. Living in a county where this question has been agitated, where the feelings of the people are excited, I yet stand here pledged, at th(,, request of both si,,es of this question, to oppose any change in the present Constitution upon this subject. The people of my county are willing to abide by the present Constitution. Neither party desires by any amendments in this Con.stitution to gain any advantage over the other. We do not fear fraudulent votes, and those terrible controversies about which the gentlemen speak so much. We are Willing to settle this matter by a majority vote. The question never has been voted UPOD, and I do not know that it ever will be. We desire that the rule as laid'down in the present Constiution shall remain and be perpetuated in the Constitution about to be made. I doubt whether anvthidg put into this Coustitution will ffect it, because the looic of events, the building of a railroad and other circumstances, have already settled the question. But I stand pledged to oppose any chan-c in the Constitution, and I feel bound to carry out that pledo,e fairly, anu' thus impartially to guard the interests and enforce the views ofall whom I have the honor to repre,Qent. Mr. HAY. Mr. President: I am disposed to believe, after hearing what has been adduced on both sides of this questiOD, that the proposition to strike out the latter part of this section would be the better plan-to strike out all after the word "Provided." That would leave the question as it has been under our present Constitution. The fact has been adverted to during this diSCUSSiOD, that the legislative article provides that all legislation in respect to chanO'iDg County seats shall be by general law. Now, it strikes me very forcibly, that a great deal of the difficulty that has heretofore originated in regard to county seat removals, has grown out of a want of some general, well defined law u-Don the subject. The parties in interest have come here, and by hook or crook, have either got possession of the members of the county or have been able to command particular influences in the Legislature, and have had special acts passed, which have given rise to a great m t' at has existe *5~ COSIUINLCNETO HRDY every county in the State being interested in the case, every representative will feel his responsibility in the matter, and will cons ider how the law may operate on his own county, so that we may reasonably suppose that they will provide so as not unneces sarily to leave op en the door for future trouble and commotion in regard to county-seats. At the s ame time, they will ma ke reasonabl e provisions, not so inflexible but that cases of hardship and extreme inconvenience will be treated with justice and provided for. Now, does it not strike every one that we had better leave this question to the Legislature under these safeguards? It seems to me that, under the provisions of the legislative article, providing that this matter shall be regulated by general law, we may reasonably calculate that no general law will be passed without the Legislature taking into consideration the safety and wants of the people of the whole State. A large majority may always be calculated upon in favor of stability and permanence of county seats, as a general rule, and we may trust their justice for providing such a general law as will not unnecessarily put in jeopardy the stability of county seats, and at the same time to so provide as will meet the cases of hardship and difficulty that may arise with respect to particular county seats. I think that we had better remit this matter to the Legislature, bv amending this article and striking out the proviso. It so occurs to me, and I hope the motion will prevail. The Secretary proceeded to read the journa l of the last day's proceedings, when Mr. WENDLING. Mr.FPresident: I move that the further reading of the journal be dispensed with. The motion was agreed to. SUBSCRIPTIONS TO RAILROADS AND:DIVER SION OF STATE TAXES. The PRESIDENT, pro temnpo-e. The Chai r will lay before the Convention a communication from the Auditor of Pub lic Accounts, in compliance with the resolution adopted by the Convention March 1st, 1870. Mr. ANTHONY. Mr. President: I move that the reading of the communica tion be dispensed with, and that two thousand copies be printed. Mr. CARY. Mir. President: It strikes me that is a very large number. I do not know of any special benefit that it will be to the people. I move to amend by strikiog out'two," and inserting "one" before "thousand." Mr. WENDLING. Will the gentleman explain the subject matter of the communication? Mr. ANTHONY. Mr. Preside n t: I t is a communication in response to a resolution offered by myself, some time since, calling upon the Auditor to give the va rious subscriptions by towns, cities and villages in the State, for railroad and other purposes, the amount of bonds, rate of per cent., where and when payable, with references to the various special stat utes under and by virtue of which the subscriptions were made, and to the vari ous special statutes where taxes have been applied for local purposes, in every county in the State. I will say to the gentleman from Jo Daviess [Mr. Cary] that he will find it of great imnportance-showing the indebted ness of the towns, cities and villages, and it will cost very little more to print two thousand than one thousand. Mr. CARY. If there is any object in printing two thousand copies, I have no objection. I think it doubtful whether in the present state of our busi,ess, this will do good. I will withdraw the amendment, as I do not know very much about it. Mr. ROSS. I do not understand the object of going into the publishing busi hness in this Convention, so late in the session. I move to lay the motion on the table. Mr. ANTHONY. On that I call for the yeas and nays. The yeas and nays were ordered, and, being taken, resulted-yeas, 19, nays 41, -as follows: Eldredg e, Moo re, Wait, Fox, Parker, Wall, Fuller, Parks, Wells, Gamble, Perley, Whiting-41. Goodell, Peirce, ABSENT, OR NOT VOTING. Allen, of Alex. Craig, Poage, Anderson, Haines of Cook,Robinson, Archer, Hanna, Skinner, Atkins, Harwood, Truesdale, Bromwell, Hayes, Wheaton, Brown, King, Wilson, Bryan, Neece, Mr. President-23. Cameron, Pillsbury, So the motion of Mr. Ross to lay upon the table the motion of Mr. Anthony to print two thousand copies of the Auditor's communicat-on was not agreed to. Mr. WASHBURN. Mr. President: I move to amend by inserting two hundred copies in lieu of two thousand. Mr. ANTHONY. Mr. President: I will say frankly to the gentleman, that if he will investigate that subject, he will find that it is of quite as much importanlce to the people of this Ssate, as anything that has been before the Conventi, fr it is a matter of infor i m atio n in regard to the taxes of this State. Two hundred copies will hardly go around among memibers. Therefore, I will move to lay that motion upon the table. Mr. WASHBURN. Mr. President: I call for the veas and nays. The yeas and nays were ordered, and being taken, resulted-yeas, 34, nays,'9 -as follows: Anthony, Buxton, Cary, Church, Coolbaugh, Craig, Cross, Dement, Eldredge, (iambue, Goodell, Goodhue, YEAS. Haines of Lake, Snyder, Hart, Sutherland, Hay, Tincher, Medill, Tubbs, Moore, Turner. Parker, Wagner, Parks, Wait, Perley, Wall, Peirce, Wells, Sedlgwick, Wheaton, Sherrill, Whiting-34. Abbot t, Fox, Allen of Alex.,English, Allen of Cr'fd.,Forman, Archer, Fuller, Bayne, Hankins, Benjamin, Hildrup, Browning, McCoy, Cody, McDowell, Cuimmings, Melrriam, Ellis, Rice, ABSENT, OR NOT VOTING. Anderson, Haines of Co'k,Poage, Atkins, Hannab, Robinson, Bowman, Harwood, Skinner, Bromwell, Hayes, Truesdale, Brown, King, Wilson, Bryan, Neece, Mr. President-20. Cameron, Pillsbury, So the motion of Mr. Anthony to lay the amendment offered by Mr. Washburn on the table, was agreed to. ]Mr. D,EMENT. Mr. President: I hope that proposition will not prevail. I do not think that any subject before this body involves greater interest to the people of this State, or that involves larger sums of money, and ultimately a larger tax upon the people, and I am desirous oily that in every conceivable way they shall be posted; and I hope that this motion for two hundred will not prevail. The PRESIDENT. The Chair will inform the gentleman from Lee that the amendment of the gentleman from Williamson [Mr. Washburn] was laid on the table. PRAYER. Prayer was o ffered b y th e Rev. Mr. Hale, of Springfield, a s follows: Our Father, wh o art in he aven, hallowed be Thy name, Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in us y s, by us, and by all men, as it is done in heaven. We thank Thee 0,, Thou ever present, infinitely glorious, wise and good Being, we ta Tethank Thee that Thou art ever with us, tha t it is in T hee that we live and move and hav e ou r be ing. In Th y hand we have laini d own the last night and slept, and Thou hast brought us to behold the ligh t of this day. Aid u s, we beseech Thee, in the work Th ou wouldst h ave each of ue s to do. Espe cially let T hy bless ing rest upon the members of this Convention, and up on T hy servant who is called to preside over them. May the bles.sing of the Lord be with them. Give them wisdom, strength, patience, fortitude, that in all things they may accomplish the work that is committed to them for the people of this State, to the advantage of every real interest of the State, now and in the future. O, Lord God, be with them in all the works of life, sanctify to us all Thy dealings, and let Thy mercy be manifested to us and to all men. Let Thy kingdom come and Thy will be done to the honor and glory of Thy name, through Jesus Christ. Amn. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION THUILSDAY) 1526 READING OF THE JOURNAL. ADJOURNMENT. Mr. BROillWELL. Mr. President: I move the Conventi(.;n do now adjourn. A division was ordered. The Conventioti divided, when, there being tWenty-UiDe in the affirmative and nineteen in the negative, the motion was agreed to. So the Convention (at five o'clock and twenty-seven minutes) adjourned. WAYS. - _w. Ross, Scholfield, Sharp, Springer, 'U-Dderwood, Va.ndeventer, War,hburn, Wendling, Wright9. . E-RGHTY-SECOND DAY. TIIURSDAY, April 28,1870. TJie Convention met at nine o'clock, M., and was called to order by the President, pro tempore (Mr. Bromwell). YEAS. English, Foi-man, McDowell, Rice, Ross, Sharp, Abbott, Be'amin, Di Browi.iing, C"rY, Cody, Cummings, Ellis, Snyder, Springer, Vandeventer, Washburn, Wend!iDg, Wright-19. NA.YS. Goodhue, Beholfield, .Haines ofLake,Sedgwick, Hankins, Stierrill, I-lart, Sutherland, Ray, Tincher, I-lildrup. Tubbs, 34eCo-Y.' Turner, Me-.rd ill 1 "Underwood, r M, Wa —ner, Allen of Crfd., Anthony, Bayne, Bowman, Buxton, Church, Cool,baugh, Cross, Dement, APRIL 28,1870 DEBATIS D PROCEEDINGS. guage should have been reported to one of the leading papers of the State, as hav. iug been uttered by me, for I did not utter any such language, or anything like it. And I want to say right here, that so far as the delegates from Cook county are concerned, they have always treated me with the utmost courtesy and kindness, and have manifested perhaps as much ability, as, or, may be, more than, dele gates from other portions of the State-I will say at least as much. Mr. CUMMlNGS. I object. [Laughter.] Mr. TINCHER. I believe the objection comes ifrom the gentleman from Shelby LMr. Wendling]. I will with draw it so ffr as it relates to his district. Mr. WENDLING. The gentleman is mistaken. It is not the gentleman from Shelby. Mr. TINCHER. It was'the gentleman from Fulton [Mr. Cummings], then. I want to get it on the right person. So far as it may relate to the district of the gentleman from Fulton [Mr. Cummings], I vill withdraw it, and assert that to be the best represented district in the State. [Laughter.] The language that I did use in relation to the barnacle vote was this: me, but I am unwilling to appropriate honor which belongs to the gentleman from Vermilion [Mr. Tincher]. That might have happened on account of his name and mine being somewhat similar, so I let that pass. But I find it followed up in the Chicago Times of April 27th, which I read from. In s peaking of the proceedings of the Convention, and of the substitute that was offered by the gentleman from Cook [Mr. Hayes] to the j ustice of th e peace" section, the reporter goes o n to say: Mr. Browning made strenuous objection, denouncing it as a pretense that the Governor appointed the justices. So far from that,he had nothing whatever to do with it, and he considered the proposition an indignity to that official. HIe was followed upon the same side, by Messrs. Turner, Cummings, J. C. Allenand Hankins. Mr. Turner desired uniformity in the creation of justices. Also, the following, in the regular report of the procee dinigs: Mr. Hayes, of Cook, offered the following substitute for section forty: All justices of the peace, in the city of Chicago, shall be appointed by the Governor. by and with the advice and consent of the sen. ate, but only upon the recommendation of a majority of the judges of the superior, circuit and county courts, and for such districts as are now, and may be hereafter provided by law. They shall hold thieir offices for four years, and until their successors shall be commissioned and qualified, but they may be removed by summary procedure, in the circuit or superior court, lor extortion or.Other malfeasance. Existing justices of the peace and police magistrates may hold their office until the expiration of their respective terms. Mr. Browning thought that it was a pretense to insert the name of the Governor, and was an indignity to him. He really had nothing to d0o with these appointments, as was pretended under this substitute. Mr. Turner was opposed to the substitute, as being all exception to the general policy adopted throughout this article. Now, sir it is well known to every gentleman upon this floor who paid any attention to it, that I not only favored the substitute offered by the gentleman from Cook [Mr. Hayes], but made a speech urging upon the Convention the adoption of the particular section that the Cook county delegation had agreed upon. I should not have made this explanation if it had not been for the fact that I felt impelled by a sense of duty yesterday, to put myself in opposition to the Chicago delegation, and that there have been ic.sinuations that there are some members here, who have been hostile to Chicago. I thinIk their newspapers have attempted to get up that hind of feeling. While I was not in favor of the appoinztmnent of justices of the peace, and taking it out of the lands of the people, yet in the case of Chicago, I did feel that it might be necessary, inasmuch as the enltire delegation desired it. I went heart and hand with the Cook county delegation, but I finsd I am reported to have been hostile to that also. I do hope, as lot gX as we have provided facilities fbr reporter s upon tiffs floor~ that they will, at least, refrain from>x misrepresenting members in such a wholesale mnanner. It may be that his fees are enormous; he may receive his forty, fifty or sixty thousand dollars annually, for all I know. That will not affect my vote one way or the other. Heo is but receiving, I presume, the legitimate fees ot the offiee to which the people of Cook county have elected him, and so far as my vote goes, it will perpetuate and keep him there (until disposed of by some general rule) and let him receive every dollar he is entitled to under the law, during the time for which he was elected. I do not know that I should hardly have been induced to make the explanation, had it not been that my remarks have become the subject of an editorial in another prominent paper, as a sort of slur on my part on the delegates of Cook county, which I disclaim, both language and intention, and have been made the occasion of these sheets to abuse the gentlemen they have sent here to represent them. I consider it unkind and unfair and untrue, and they must not misrepresent me as having made any such allusions to the delegates from Cook county, for I did not. Mr. DE.MENT. Mr. President: My remarks ar e then equally appropriate in support of the o riginal proposition to print two thousand. Mr. ANTHONY. Mr. President. I will modify my motion an d make it one thousand. Mr. DEMENT. Mr. President: I am sorry that the gentleman so modifies his motion. I believe that two thousand is not too many. What use can we have of on e th o usand? It will go but a very little w ay to ward imparting this information or distributing it throughout the country. If we are to have but one thousand, I would quite as soon have only two hundred. If we are printing them for our own use, only two hundred will be quite sufficient. If we print them for the public and distribute them among our constituents, two thousand is small enough. I hope the Convention will adhere to the printing of the largest number. It is very seldom that I go for printing doec uments ingreat numbers. But thisisone of the few instances where I think it is important, for I believe the information contained in the report of the Auditor upon this subject, should be distributed broadcast among the people, that they may understand the magnitude of this question. Mr. TINCI-IER. Mr. President: It costs more to discuss this question half an hour, than to print one copy of this communication for every man in the State. I move the previous question. Mr. HAY. Mr. President: Do I understand the'gentleman to have modified his motion? The PRESIDENT. The motion has been modified by the gentleman from Cook [Mr. Anthony] so as to read "1,000 copies." The question being upon the motion of the gentleman from Vermilion [Mr. Tincher] for the previous question, a division was ordered. The Convention divided, when, there being thirty-four in the affirmative and three in the negative, the-motion for the previous question was agreed to, and the main question ordered. The question being upon the motion of Mr. Antho,)ny, that one thousand copies of the Auditor's report be printed, it was agreed to. [The communication will be found in the appendix, "No. 15."] QUESTION OF PRIVILEGE. Mr. TINCHER. Mr. President: It is the first time, I believe, in the short experience which I have had in legislative and deliberative bodies or elsewhere, that I have been obliged to rise to a question of a personal character. I find ill the Chicago Tribune of the 27th inst., the followi~g language. Mr. Tincher favored Mr. Cod's amend-ment. The circuit clerk of Cook counts was entitled to all the fees to which he was entitled at the time of his election. He knew there had been a barnacle fight in Clhicago, but he ~ould not see that it had resulted in any re' markable selection of delegates in this Convention. QUESTTION OF PRIVILEGE-AGAIN. Mr. TURNER. Mr. President: I would call the attention of the Conven tion to another fact, partly in connection with my friend from Vermilion [Mr. Tincher]. I do not know, sir, whether or not it is the intention of the reporters of the Chicago newspapers to purposely misrepresent delegates on this floor. I think, sir, that an inspection of those newspapers will show that in a large majority of cases, members are, where they are noticed at all, put in a position the y did not occupy. At the close of the judiciary article the gentleman from Vermilion [MIr. Tincber] offered a section looking to the adoption of a code and the regulation of practice. The Chicago papers next morning came out not only in the reports of the proceedings charging it all to me, but in an editorial speaking of Mr. Turner froIn Stephenson, instead of Mr. Tincher from Vermilion, as the author of that measure. I do not know but that was flattering to APP.IL 28) 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. [Laughter.] As far as it affects me, I care nothing :about it. I presume it has been a mistake on the part of the correspondent, but so far as it affects and relates to the honorable delegates from Cook county, it is a inatter of regret to me that such Ian QUESTION OF PRIVILEGE-AGAIN. Mr. SEDGWICK. Mr. Presidc-,nt: I rise to a personal i)rivilege. I fled iii the Illinois State Journal of yesterday, the fOllOWIDg lines: Mr-Sedgwick asl,-ed tobe excused from voting upon these questions, because there arip two 1528 ()ONSTJT UTIONAL COYENTION THURSDAY, The PRESIDENT. Will the gentle.man from Will [Mr. Goodhue] yield to the gentleman from White LMr. McDowell?] Mr. GOODHUE. Mr. President: I hope the gentleman will wait one mo ment. I desire to trouble the Convention for a moment by a personal explanation. [Laughter]. This is my petition. The Chair announced that petitions are in order, and I very earnestly ask that the gentlemen of the Convention will bear with me one moment. It is not exactly a question'of punctuation of which I complain. I have no special complaint to make, Mr. President, because I feel confident that a mistake was made by the reporter of the Chicago Tribune in yesterday's issue I have been a constant daily reader of that paper for years, wherever I have been, and I certainly would be very lothli to believe that g en tlemen representing that paper would intentionally make false statements or false representations of any character. The paper to which gentlemen have referred, made mention of my name in connection with the salary question. After coming to my name, I read on quietly for a few moments, but was startled to see the misrepresentations which had accidentally crept into the report. I read a little fiurther, and I became perfectly satisfied that the reporter had no sort of reference to me, that he must have referred to somebody else, for if he referred to me, he put words in my mouth I did not use. Having been a constant reader of that paper for so many years, having had confli dence in its editors and reporters, and believing that I was gaining information, soild information, and collecting facts, the embarrassment I now feel is in reviewing my past history for a few years in order to disentangle what I have learned from the Tribune, from what I have learned from other sources, and analyzing and disentangling that which is true from that which is false. I presume there was no reference to me in the article referred to, that the appearance of my name was an accident, and that the name of some other person should have been in place of mine as has happened heretofore. I cannot have any sort of suspicion that the article referred to me, without my suspicions becoming more violent in another direction. parties in his county aboub equally divided, and both are Iriends of his, and he did not wish to take up the club in favor of either!! He was excused. As much as to say that, because certain partie s a re my friends, I do not wish to tak e upte b the club ior their favor, for the ridicul ous reaso n, that they are my frie nds, as it would seem. What I did say is corr ect ly reported by the official reporters of this Convention, in the proceedings of ye sterday. I will read: Mr. SEDGWICK. Mr. President: Before proceeding to vote upon that question, I desire to ask the Convention to excuse me from voting, not only upon this question, but upon all questions relating to the removal of county seats in this article, for the reason that in my county parties, perhaps, are about equally divided upon this question, each claiming to be in the ascendency. Both parties are my friends. It was not made an issue at or before the election last fall, and consequently I do not wish to take the club against either party. Therefore, I hope the Convention will excuse me from voting upon that subject. I do not fin,id any exclamation points in the report made by our own reporter. Mr. ANTHONY. Mr. President: I would ask if what the gentleman has just read from, is the official report of the Convention? Mr. SEDGWICK. It is, Mr. President ["All right, isn't it?"] Yes, the official reporter is right. It is but a short time ago that the State Journal pitched into the reporter of the Chicago Tribune in what might be called an ungentlemanly manner. Six different statements were made charging the reporter with lying. And, in a subsequent number, that paper re-affirmed its former statements, by saying it meant to be understood as branding him as a liar. Now, sir, what I insist on is, that this paper, if it sees fit to criticise the reporter of another paper in so harsh and ungentlemanly manner, it should, at least, see that its own reporter tells the truth, I do not stand here to say that the reporter of the Ti ibune was correct in all the statements made by him with reference to the Journal, but I do know that it was the feeling of the Convention, at and before that time, that the Illinois State Journal was throwing cold water on the labors of the Convention, was trying to defeat the Constitution by prejudicing the people against it in advance. I know that was the expression of many members here. Whether its reasons for doing so were tile same attributed by the reporter of the Tribur, e or not, I do not know, but I would suggest to that paper that "people who live in glass houses should tot throw stones," especially at the reporters of other papers} without first taking the "beam out of their own eyes, so that they can see clearly to pull the mote out of their brother's eye*" Mr. ANTHONY. MEr. President: I think I can relieve the gentleman by moving to strike out the exclamation points. [Laughter]. The PRESIDENT:. The exclamation points are not a part of the record. Petitions and communications are in order. that all true representative governments, to be effectual and just, should be simple, near to, and participated in by the people. And, as in duty bound, your petitioners will ever pray. Mr. McCOY. It occurs to me that I heard some voice in the hall object to this petition going to the proper committee. If any gentleman wants to stand up here against the right of petition, I would desire to have the yeas and nays taken, and place him on the record. The PRESIDENT,_pro tempore. The objection was to the reading, and was not insisted on. FEMALE SUFFRAGE. Mr. WELLS. Mr. Presi dent: I p resent t he protest of N. L. Tracy, and four hundred and thi rty others, ladies of El mo, against conferring on the women of the State the duties and responsibilities of suffrage. I ask that it be considered with other questions of that nature. Mr. BENJAMIN. Mr. President: I am requested to present to the Conven tion a protest against woman suffrage, signed by forty-five ladies, members of the Normal university. I ask to have it read, and referred to the Committee on Suffrage. Mr. HAINES, of Lake. Mr. Presi dent: In regard to this "protest," I would say that I do not understand that. any person or persons, not members, have the right to spread protests on our records against the action of this Convention, and as far as I am concerned I protest gener. ally, as a member of this Convention, against any such protests being spread upon the journals. I am in favor of the right of petition, but X am opposed to establishi- g a principle that any one may place a communication upon our records, in the nature of a protest against what we may consider our duty to do. Mr. WELLS. Mr. President: I rise to a question of order. There is no question before the Convention. Mr. HAINES, of Lake. Mr. President: There is a question of order pending a question which I raised myself. Mr. BENJAMIN. Mr. President: I would ask the gentleman if he takes the position that a petition cannot be in the nature of a remonstrance? Every petition must necessarily be either for or against a proposition. In the one case it is a request for the adoption of the proposition; in the other it is a protest against the adoption. Mr. HAINES, of Lake. Mr. President: I am not captious about this matter at all, but there is nothing in the protest in the nature of a petition. It is a mere protest. The parties sending it do not ask anything; all they say is "We enter our solenmn protest." Who cares what they protest against? The right of spreading a protest to our proceedings on the record, belongs only to members, and this by our rules. The PRESIDENT, pro tempers. it is the opinion of the Chair that persons not. members of this body, have no right to} have protests spread upon the record, and unless the Convention should treat the instrument as a remonstrance, it would not be proper to go upon the record. The Convention, however, can use itsown pleasure in that respect. Mir. ALLEN, of Crawford. Mr. President': I protest that the people of Illinois have a right to send their communi TOWNSH IP ORlGANIZATION. Mr. McCOY. Mr. President: I present the petition of Jehel Cass and sixty others, praying that the township organization law be made more perfect, by being based on the New England plan, upon such conditions as shall be deemed proper. I ask to have it referred to the Committee on Township Organization, and that it be read. ["Object."] The Secretary read the petition presented by Mr. McCoy, as follows: To the Jonorable Members of the Constitutional Convention, now assembled at Springfield: We, your fellow-citizens of the State of Illinois, most respectfully ask you to insert an article or clause into the new Constitution which your honors are preparing to submit to the people of said State, doing away with the present system of county organization, and substituting complete township organization, base d upon the N ew England plan, with such improvements as your honors may think in your wisdom best for the people, believing QUESTION OF PRnIVILEGE-lAGAIN. Mr. GOODHUE. Mr. President: I am glad to know petitions and communications are still in order. Mr. McDOWELL. Mr. President 1528 CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION THUP.SDATI APL 28, 18'TO. DEBATES AD PROOEEDIXGS. 1529 about, and I want him to look into the heresy he refers to. If woman suffrage were the only heresy the gentleman from Crawford [Mr. Allen] had ever given his attention to, he might be in better conldition before the people of the State of Illinois than he is to-day. But, these heresies are what are troubling politicians all the time, and my advice to him is to let heresies go, and attend to the business of the Convention. I have merely raised a question of order-that this is not a petition. Thalis allI have to say. I say nothing about the merits of the case. I have not spoken of the merits of this question during this session, and I do not propose to. The PRESIDENT, Pro tempore. Does the gentleman withdraw his motion to adjourn? Mr. HAINES, of Lake. I withdraw it. cations here, whether they are in favor or aoainst a particular proposition of the Convention. I care not, sir, whether they send them in the character of a protest or a remonstrance, this Convention should hear them respectfully, and make proper reference of such communications. I do not understand that because a few ladies may protest against the proposition of the gentleman from Lake [Mr. Haines] he has any right to say to this Convention, that their communication shall not be received, because it comes here in the form of a protest. The doors of this Convention ought to be open to those who protest against the gentleman's proposition to submit this question to a vote of the people, if they send a document here in the form of a remonstrance, or in the form of a petition against the adoption by the people of this heresy. I hope the communication will be received, and referred to the proper committee. Mr. HAINES, of Cook. Mr. President: Is there not a resolution now upon the table, which has reference to the action this Convention has already taken on this subject, and would it not be proper that these petitions should be laid upon the table, with that resolution, and taken up when that is taken up? The Committee on Suffrage have made their report, and if it be in order, I move that these petitions lie upon the table. I like the petitions. I am opposed to woman suffrage in all its phases, and I wish these petitions brought before us when we act upon that resolution. Mr. HAINES, of Lake. Mr. President: I do not wish to get at sea in this matter, and for the information of the gentleman from Crawford [Mr. Allen], who does not seem to know what is going on in this Convention Mr. FOX. I rise to a point of order. The gentleman has made one speech on this subject. Mr. HAINES, of Lake. I am not going to make a speech. I wish to make a personal explanation. Mr. FOX. I object. AMr. HAINES, of Lake. I move this Convention do now adjourn until to-morrow at ten o'clock; and the reason is that that I think the Convention is not in a proper condition to do) any business — Mr. ALLEN, of Crawibrd. I rise to a point of order;X a motion to adjourn is not debatable. Mr. HAINES, of Lake. The motion is to adjourn to a timne fixed, and is debatable. I wish to say that I did not come in here for the purpose of being captious in regard to this matter. I have not introduced any proposition in favor of woman suffrage since I have been here, as the gentleman from Crawford [Mr. Allen] seems to charge. Mr. ALLEN, of Crawford. I rise to a point of order. The gentleman is not discussing the pending question. The motion is to adjourn. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The gentleman must confine himself to the question of adjournmnent. Mr. HEAIN:ES, of Lake. I will do that before I get through. I w~ant t'me, during the recess I propose, to examine this communication the gentleman from Crawford [Mr. Allen] speak~ 383 Mr. WELLS. As I understand the question, a motion was made by the gentleman from McLean [Mr. Benjamin] to refer this proposition. I move, sir, that the protest be read at length and be spread upon the journal. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. There is a motion before the Convention that it be laid upon the table and be taken up when that subject is before the Convention. It is proper that the Convention should consider a question which involves its own dignity. The point made by the gentleman from Lake [Mr. Haines] is that this is not a proper paper to go upon the record. The question is upon the motion of the gentleman from Cook [Mr. Haines] to consider the communication at the same time that others on the same subject come up. The motion was agreed to. POSTAGE TO CONVENTION. Mr. ROSS presented a bill from the city postmaster of Springfield, which was referred to the Committee on Accounts and Expenditures. ORDER OF BUSINESS. Mr. CODY. Mr. President: I have a communication from the Committee on Revision and Adjustment in relation to the first section of the article upon suffrage. The PRESIDENT. That would be the fourth order of business. We are now upon the head of petitions and communications. A committee of this body is not capable of making a communication. Their communications are their own reports. Are there any other petitions or communications? If not, then unfinished b usin ess of the previous day will be next in order. REVISION AND ADJUSTMENT. Mr. CODY. Mr. President: I desire to ask the unan imous co nsent of th e Convention to suspend the rules for a moment, in order thatI may make a re po rt from the Cmnmittee on Revision and Adjustment, as it is in regard to a matter upon which they desire to act immediately, and will facilitate their action. The Committee on Revision and Adjustment have unanimously requested me to report, that upon an examination of the first section of this article, they find what they suppose to be a defect which it is thought the Convention will desire to remedy, and the instruction of that committee is to lay the matter before the Convention for its action. The section reads: Every person who was an elector in this State on the first of April, 1848, every person who has, prior to the first day of January, 1870, obtained a certificate of naturalization before any court in this State, every male citizen of the United States above the age of twenty-one years, who shall have resided in the State one year, in the county ninety days and in the election district thirty days, next preceding any election, shall be entitled to vote at such election. The defect the Committee on Revision supposed they discovered, was that the words "of record" were left out after the word "co urt;" and that under this provision a justice's court could issue certificates of naturalization, and date them back, by which men could be made voters under this provision. Mr. DEMENT. Mr. President: Neither the Convention nor the committee made any mistake on this question, as supposed by the Committee on Revision. It was proposed to make it courts of record, but distinctly rejected. The committee, however, never acted as a committee on that point. A number got together and concurred in the amendment. Other members'of the Convention proposed to insert, "courts of record." It will be remembered that a sentiment prevailed to enfranchise all foreigners, naturalized or not, who were in the State at the time of the adoption of this Constitution, but we compromized on this-that every foreigner who had shown a disposition to become naturalized in good faith, without reference to the jurisdiction of the court before which he attempted to obtain his naturalizatiorr papers, should, by this amendment, be naturalized. M~r. ROSS. I rise to a point of order. There is,~o question pending before the Convention. The PRESIDENT, pro temnpore. The gentleman from DuPage [Mr. Cody] ofibm a suggestion in Writing fromn the Committee on Revision and Adjustmen~ by way of report., COUNTIES. The Convention adjourned, yesterday, while considering the amendment to section four of the article on counties. The gentleman from McLean [Mr. Benjamin] has moved the following amendment: Strike out in third and fourth lines the words: "In all cases where a county seat has been located -- years, and;" also strike out the words "two-thirds,' in seventh line, and, insert "three-fifths." The gentleman from Alexander [Mr. Allen] has moved to strike out the section. The gentleman from Will [Mr. Goodhue] has offered a substitute which is pending, and will be considered when the other motions have been disposed of. APP.TL 283 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1529 The Secretary read the substitute offered by Mr. Goodhue, as follows. And the question ofremoving county seats shall not be submitted to a vote of the people anV oftener than once in ten years. The PRESIDENT. The question' is now upon the motion of the gentleman from McLean [Mr. BeDiaMiD]. Mr. CRAIG. Mr. President: I will inquire if it be in order to move to lay the substitute of the gentleman from Will [Mr. Goodliiie] on the table. - The PRESIDENT. It will be when it is before the Convention for its action. It is,not now before the Convertioin, as the question will be flrst upon the original matter. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION ment of the Convention, as well as of the committee. Mr. CHURCH. Mr. President: One amendment is sufficient to correct, and that should be made now. The Convention acted at this point hastily. I call for the yeas and nays, and insist on the previous question. The motion for the previous question was agreed to, and the main question ordered. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The question is on the motion to instruct the Committee on Revision and Adjustment to insert the words "of record." Tile motion was agreed to. Strike out in third and fourth lines the words, "In all cases where a county seat has been located years, and;" also, strike out the words "two-thirds" in seventh line, and insert "three-fifths." The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The question being divided, the question now is on the motion to strike out of the fourth line the words "all cases where a county seat has been located years, and." The gentleman from Schuyler [Mr. Fox] rose to a motion to lay on the table, but is ruled out, the gentleman from Whiteside [Mr. McCoy] having not yielded the floor. Mr. FOX. I now move to lay the mo. tion of the gentleman from McLean [Mr. Benjamin] on the table. Mr. BENJAMIN. Mr. President: I rise to a question of order-whether the motion to lay on the table is in order when there has been a call for a division of the question, and one vote actually taken, but by reason of want of a quo. ruin, not announced? The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. There being no quorum, the Chair was about to take a vote by rising, when the gentleman interposed his motion, and made a new motion. The Chair is of opinion that the motion can be entertained. The question is first on laying on the table the first part of the amendment of the gentleman from McLean [Mr. Benjamin]. The yeas and nays were ordered, and being taken, resulted-yeas, 21; nays, 35-as follows: COUNTIES. The PRESIDENT, pro tem7pore. The Committee on Revision and Adjustment are instructed to insert the words "of record." The Convention will now proceed to the regular order of business. The gentleThe gentleman from cLean [Mrr. Benjamin] moved to amend in the fourth and seventh lines. The gentleman from Alexander [Mr. Allen] moves to strike out the whole proviso. The question is first on the amendment offered by the gentleman from McLean [Mr. Benjaminj. The Secretary will read the amendment. The Secretary read the amendment offered by Mr. Beniamin, as follows: Strike out in third and fourth lines, the words "in all cases where a county seat has been located - years, and;" also strike out in seventh line, the words "two-thirds," and insert "three-fifths." Mr. CARY. Mr. President: I call for a division of the question. t,Rr. McCOY. Mr President: I rose for the same purpose. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The motion of the gentleman from McLean [Mr. Benjamin] is to strike out from two lines. Will the gentleman from JoDaviess [Mr. Cary] indicate his division. Mr. CARY. Mr. President: The division I desire is on striking out "twothirds," and inserting "three-fifths." The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The question is upon the amendment in the fourth line. A division was ordered. The Convention divided. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The vote stands twenty-one in the affirmative, and eighteen in the negative. Mr. McCOY. Mr. President: I suppose there is not a quorum voting, and the proposition is not acted upon. Eighteen and twenty-one do not make fortyfive. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. There is not a quorum voting. Mr. FOX. I move to lay on the table the motion of the gentleman from McLean [Mr. Benjamin]. Mr. McCOY. I believe I have not yielded the floor. I do not recollect that I have. What is the question? The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. It is upon the motion of the gentleman from McLean [Mr. Benjamin], to strike out inl the fourth line and in the seventh line. A division has been called for, and the question is now on striking out in the fourth line. The Secretary read the amendment offered by Mr. Benjamin, as follows: Mr. DEMENT. The gentleman from DuPage [Mr. Cody] made a report from the Commi ttee on Revision and Adjustment. In referenc e to the matter alluded to, I will say it was not an oversight. I introduced t his ame ndmen t in Committee of the Whole. It wa s not then adopted, and the gentleman from Vermilion [Mr. Tincher] introduced the same language as an amendment to the article as reported to the Convention, when we adopted it. It was offered, as I then understood it, with a view of enfranchising all persons who have shown an honest intention to be naturalized. It was intended to cover any defect in naturalization papers that might arise from a want of jurisdiction of whatever court a party might have obtained his papers from. Mr. TINCHER. I remember clearly and distinctly how this occurred. It was by amendment offered by myself, when we were operating under the previous question. The gentleman from Sangamon [Mr. Hay] moved an amendment to insert courts of record, which I was willing to and did accept. My impression is that the greater portion of the Convention believed the words "court of record" were there. It ought to be amended so as to read "court of record," and it was understood that it was so; but, perhaps, under the operation of the previous question it was not inserted. Mr. COOLBAUGH. Mr. President: I move that the Convention proceed to the regular order of business. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The Convention will so proceed, unless a motion is made to dispose of this matter. Mr. TINCHER. Mr. President: I move that the Committee on Revision and Adjustment be instructed to insert the words "court of record." Mr. UNDERWOOD. Mr. President: The object is that persons may be naturalized by a court of record. That court is a court of record, and has a seal. I think the object can be accomplished by inserting "record." Mr. CUMMINGS. Mr. President: I rise to a question of order. Can an article, after it has been sent to the Committee on Revision and Adjustment, be amended? Mr. UNDERWOOD. This is simply an instruction. Mr. ROSS, Mr. President: I do not think we can act upon the matter, because it is not properly before us. The PRESIDENT, Fro tempore. The Chair understands that the motion was made upon the ground that it was supposed the language in the section did not express the views of the Convention, and that the Convention might direct the Committee -on Revision to insert, which the Chair thinks can be done. Mr. ROSS. Mr. President: I move to lay the whole subject on the table. The motion was not agreed to. Mr. COOL:BAUGH. Mr. President: It dots seem to me we would expedite business by passing over the question for the present. There will perhaps be numerous alterations to be made in various articles which have been passed, when they shall be reported by the Committee on Revision and A djuastment. I have no doubt that a great many sections and articles will require the adjust Ellis, Medill, English, Moore, Foxr, Scholfield, Haines of Lake, Springer, lHildrup, Vandeventer, McCoy, Wagner, McDowell, Wright-21. Abbott, Archer, Bayne, Bowman, Cary, Craig, Dement, Allen of Alex.,Goodhue, Snyder, Allen of Crfd.,HainesofCook,Sutherlan d, Anthony, Hankins, Tincher, Atkins, Hart, Tubbs, Benjamin, Harwood, Underwood. Browning, Merriam, Wait, Buxton, Parker, Wall' Church, Perley, Washburn, Eldredge, Peirce, Wheaton, Forman, Ross, Whiting, Fuller, Sharp, Wilson-35. Gamble, Sherrill, ABSENT, OR NOT VOTING. AndersoD, Goodell, Rice, Bromwell, Hanna, Robinson, Brown, Hay, Sedgwick, Bryan, Hayes, Skinner, Cameron, King, Truesdale, Cody, Neece, Turner, Coolbaugh, Parks, Wells, Cross, Pillsbury, Wendling, Cummings, Poage, Mr. Presideut —27. So the motion of Mr. Fox, to lay on the table the first branch of the amendment offered by Mr. Benjamin, was not agreed 1530 THUIELSDAY, YEAS. WAYS. to. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The question is upon the adoption of that portior. of the amendment to strike out the following words: "In all cases where a county seat has beea located years, and." A divi-sion was ordered. The Convention'divided, when, there beidg thirty-one in the aflirmative and nineteen in the Degative, the first branch of the amendment was agreed to. The PRESIDENT, pro teinpor6. The question is upon the see* d branch of the DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. amnmet whc st tieotilteEdeg, Prs hetn hl rce osae o nym p I shall proceed to state, not only mv opposition to the amendment proposed, but the reason why I think some amendment to this provision should be made. As the provision now stands, a county seat may be removed upon the vote of a majority of the voters of the county voting on the question. That places it within the power of a minority of the legal voters of a county, to remove the county seat, for if a portion of the citizens of the county should be prevented, for sotme reason, from voting, then less than a majority of all tie voters of the county might remove the county sea t. I thi nk the proposition ought to be amended, so as to require a ma jority of all the lega l registered voters of the county. Then, the voters of the county that failed to v ote up on t he question, woul d be counted against the proposition of re moval. And this would be some restriction upon the removal of c o unt y seats. Now, sir, it seems to me, that th e f undamental law should either place the question in such a position as t o prevent the removal of county seats on a c count of the accidental absence of a portion of th e of the of the county from the polls, or prevent so far as possible the obtaining of a majority of the lega l vo tes by any undue means. The gentleman from Woodford [Mtr. Bayne], yesterda y gave us the hist ory of an attempt to remove the county s,eat of hi s c ounty, in which illegal votes were cast for the pur pose of procuring the removal. We ought to make the provision as explicit as possible, so th at be fore there can be a removal, there shall be an expression of a majority of all the legal voters of the county. That can be done, sir, by striking out the words "voting on the question," and inserting in the second line, after the word "the," the words " legal registered voters in the county." I have been through one of these coun ty seat wars, and I never want to see an other. As far as the people of my coun-. ty are concerned, I feel but little interest in the matter, for it has been, I hope, set tled forever. But having experienced some of the evils that result from the want of a definite specific provision on this subject, I hope we will place in this Constitution such a provision as will put the question beyond cavil. I have prepared a proposition, which I will read for the information of the Convention. It is a substitute for the whole section, and I think covers the point I propose to make upon this question, as also the obnoxious section of this pro,v ise. I am opposed to placing a restriction upon the will of the maj ority of the people of the county. I believe a majority of the voters and tax-payers ought to be permitted to fix the seat of justice where that majority desire, and where the interests, convenience and wants of the county require. I am willing to do that, and as far as possible save the people from the constant agitation which results in material loss and injury. I have, therefore, prepared this substitute ibr the entire section, which I will read-. No county seat shall be removed until the point to which it is proposed to be removed shall be fixedd by law, and the majority of the legal registered voters of the county shall heave voted in favor of its removal to such point; and not more than one vote foramech ABSENT, OR NOT VOTING. Anthony, Hayes, Sedgwick, Bromwell, King, Skinner, Brown, Neece, Truesdale, Bryan, Pillsbury, Vandeventer, Cameron, Poage, Wells, Cary, Rice, Wendling Hanna, Robinson, Mr. President-21. amendment, which is to strike out in the seventh line the words "two-thirds," and insert the words "tLhree-fifths." Mr. CARY. That is the point on which I called for a division —striking out and inserting. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The question will be first taken upon the striking out of the words "two-thirds." The yeas and nays were ordered. Mr. VANDEVENTER. I will state to the Convention that I am representing, county that is almost equally divided on this question, and therefore ask the Convention to excuse me from voting. Mr. PARKS I move the gentleman be excused from voting. The motion was agreed to. The Secretary called the roll. The result was then announced-yeas, 44; nays, 14-as follows: So the amendment offered by Mr. Benjamin, to insert "three-fifths," was not agreed to. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The question is on the amendment of the gentleman from Alexander [Mr. Allen], to strike out the entire proviso, beginning in the third line. Mr. SCHOLFIELD. I desire to offer a substitute when it is in order, for the section. The PRESIDENT, pro tompore. There isa substitute now pending, and until that is disposed of nothing else will be in order. The question is on the amendment of the gentleman from Alexander [Mr. Allen], to strike out the proviso, as amended, which the Secretary will read. The Secretary read the proviso, as amended, as follows: Provided, That in cases where a vote has been or may be taken to remove a county seat, and has been or may be decided in the negative, and a subsequent effort is made to remove to any point within three miles of the same place, —-- of all the voters voting on the question shall be necessary to effect a removal of such county seat. Abbott, Ellis, Ross, Allen of Alex., Fox, Sherrill, Allen, of Cr'fd,Fuller, Snyder, Anthony, Gamble, Sutherland, Archer, Goodhue, Tincher, Atkins, Haines of Lake,Tubbs, Bayne, Hart, Turner, Benjamin, Harwood, Wagner, Browning, Hay, Wait, Buxton, McCoy, Wall, Cary, Merriam, Washburn, Coolbaugh, Parker, Wheaton, Cross, Parks, Whiting, Dement, Perley, Wilson-4. Eldredge, Peirce, NAYS., Haines of Cook, Moore, Hankins, Scholfield, Hildarup, Springer, McDowell, Underwood-14 Medill, The yea n Oa s and nays w ere ordered, and, being taken, resulted —yeas 43, nays 20as follows: Bromwell, Hayes, Sharp, Brown, King, Skinnaer, Bryan, Neece, Truesdale, Cameron, Pillsbury, Vandeventer, Church, Poage, Wells, Cody, Rice, Wendling, Cummings, Robinson, Wright, Goodell, Sedgwick, Mr. President-25. Hanna, So the motion of Mr. Benjamin, to strike out "two-thirds," was agreed to. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The question will now be upon inserting the words "three-fifths." Mr. BENJArvIN. I will simply state that if we insert the words "three-fifths," the effect of the section, will be that upon the first trial for the removal of a county seat, a majority of the voters of the county only will be required; upon t'-:e second, three-fifths will be required. The yeas and nays were ordered, and being taken, resulted-yeas 29, nays 33 -as follows: Abbott, Ellis, Allen of Alex.,English, Allen of Crfd., Fox, Anthony, Fuller, Archer, Garmble Atkins, Goodhue, Benjamin, Hankins, Browning, Hart, Buxton, Harwood, Cary, Hay, Cody, McCoy, Cross. Merriam, Cummings, Parker, Dement, Parks, Eldredge, ABSENT, OR NOT VOTING. Anderson, King, Skinner, Bromwell, Neece, Tincher, Brown, Pillsbury, Truesdale, Bryan, Poage, Vandeventer, Cameron, Rice, Wendling, Hanna, Robinson, Mr. President-20. Hayes, Sedgwick, So the motion of Mr. Allen, of Alexander, to strike out the proviso, as amended, was agreed to. Mr. CRAIG. Mr. President: I move to strike out the word "majority, as it now stands, and insert the word "threefifths." Mr. ALLEN, of Crawford. Mr. President; I am opposed to the amendment proposed by the gentleman from Knox [Mr. Craig], though I think this provision ought to be amended. YEAsS. English, I Moore, Forman, Perley, Fuller, Ross, Goodell, Scholfield, Haines of CookSpringer, Haines of LakeSutherland, Hildrup, Underwood, McDowell, Wagner, Medill, Wright-29. Alerriam, NAYS. 1531 APIRIL 28, 1870. Eldredge, Ellis, Fox, Parks, Wheaton, Peirce, Whiting, Sharp, Wilson-33. y13. Anderson, Bowman, Craig, English, Forman, 1,BSENT, OR NOT VOTING. YEA.S. Perley, Peirce, Shar-D Sny&er, Tubbs,' Turner, Wait Wall., Wasliburn, Wells, Wheaton, Whiting, Wilson, Wright-43. NA.YS. Bayne, Bowman, Church, Coolbaugh, Craig, Forman Goodell, Haines of CookScholfield, Haines of LakeSherrill, ,Hildrup, Springer, McDowell, Sutherland, Medill, Underwood, Moore, I Wagner-20. Ross, - Anderson, Bayne, Benjamin, Bowman, Buxton, Church, Cool baugh, - Craig, Cross, Cummings, Sherrill, 1 Snyder, Tinclier, Tubbs, Turner, Wait,' wall, Washburn, *, Abbott, Gamble, Allen of Alex.,Goodhue, Allen of Crfd.,Hankins, Archer, Hart, Atkins, Harwood, Browning, Hay, Cody, McCoy, I)ement, Parker, 1532 ('ONSTITTIONAL OONYENTIO THUR8DAY, tem, my mode of submission authorizes them to select it, and provides that, in that event, the clause upon this subject in the present Constitution shall be a clause in the new Constitution. If they should prefer the other system, they can adopt it. If they desire change, they can effect it. Now, I submit to gentlemen of this Convention, in all candor, that, although many of us may reside in counties where we have not been cursed with this troublesome question, we cannot doubt, from what has been manifested in this hall, that it is a terrible scourge, a terri ble misfortune to any county that may be cursed by it. We must perceive that the minds of the voters of this State are largely divided upon this question. It is a question that has produced, and will produce agitation, strife and trouble. All the reason, therefore, which would impel me to submit to the vote of the people, a choice between the systems, both largelyaffecting their welfare, com bine to urge us to submit this question to them, in order that they may be allowed to make the selection. It is no more than right that those persons who are agi tators in a county, desiring constant chan ige (sometimes for purposes of good, it m ay be, and at other times for purposes of speculation), should themselves control the question, so that the people should not be allowed, in voting upon the Con stitution, to say whether or not there shall be permanence secured by the Con stitution to county seats. If a majority of the people of the State do not ap prove of it, all they have to do is to vote against it. If they do approve of it, who shall say they have not the right to do so? Mr. ARCHER. Mr. President: What is the question now before the Conven tion? The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The question is now upon the substitute of t he gentleman from Will [Mr. Good hue]. Mr. CRAIG. Air. President: I will state that I offered an amendment to the section, which is still pending. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The gentleman is right. The question is up on the amendment of the gentleman from Knox [iIr. Craig] to strike out in the second line the word "majority," and insert'"three-fifths."w Mr. ARCHER. Mr. President: I have so far refrained from giving any views other than by the votes that I have cast, upon this question of the formation of new counties or the removal of county seats. I have been, however, steadily opposed to the principle of placing beyond the reach of the people the power to control, by a majority of their votes, every ques tion submitted to their judgment at the polls. I believe, M!r. President, that this principle is too old, and too well established in the hearts and minds of the American people to be questioned at this time, and particularly at a period in the history of ; the country, when restrictions upon the ballot seem to be. giving away on all sides, and the right of the people is fixed to determine everywhere and under all circumstances at the ballot box, by the votes of all classes, questions in which they are interested. I believe it should be, as has been set removal shall be takenain a county for a period of ten years. I propose to offer that as a substitute for the entire section whenever it shall be in order. Mr. SCHOLFIELD. Mr. President: T he objection that exists against the prop - osition of the gentleman hrom Crawfo rd [Mr. Allen] is this: While the registry laws afford a tolera ble test of the number of voters in a coun ty, that test is by no means accurate, as the experience of all persons connected with the enforcement of these laws will show. So well understood was this fact by those who enacted our present regis try law, that the registry lawv authorizes persons whose names are not placed upon the registry list, to vote at an election, if they can p~rove Such facts as will bring them wit'hin the limitations of the law relating to citizenship. The present Constitution has this pro-' vision: No county seat shall be removed until',he point to which it is proposed to be removed ,shall be fixed by law, and a majority of the voters of the county shall have voted in favor of its removal to such -point. The languaoe is as strong as the language of the gentleman from Crawford [Mlr. Allen], in his proposed amendment, and as strong as it could well be made. The difficulty lies in testing what is the majority, at the time the vote is taken, of the legal voters of the county. The supreme court adopted as a test in giving construction to this section, the vote given upon the particular question. That test is not accurate, either..Large numbers of pgrsons, through indifference or misfortune, may stay away from the polls,, So, too, the test of taking the registered list of voters of a county is inaccurate for the reason that it is liable to the mistakes, the inaccuracies and the wilful derelictions of duty of those whose duty it is to make the register. I desire to state that since this question has been before the Convention, I'have prepared a section emibodying in s-ubstance a principle which. has been heretofor~e presented but voted'down, which, I think, might with safety be submitted to a vote of the people as a separate clause of the Constitution. With the permission of the Convention, I[ will read it for their information. This will commit nvbody to the proposition,~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~futethnosumtitevoeoth people, and if hey shoul d desre t e com~~~~~~~~~~eapr othoraila,Iape h~~~~~~~~~~~enthCovninwudbpefcl satisfi~~~~~~~ed It is as follo w s:~~ At the t~~~~~ ~imeti osiuini umte to avot ofthepeole, he ollwin aricQ ~ shall e submited seprately,and if majori ty of those vting upon th question shll ~ vote in favor of the artic~~~le,thnhesm shall becme a par of thisConstituion; oth erwise theprovision f the Consitution 3 in ore uontht sbjctshal e n frc a a partof thi Consttutiod ~ ~SEC. —. No county s~eatsalb eoe until te poin to whih it i proposd to b removed sall be fxed by lw. T hat n al cases ~~~~whravoehsocbentenore mov acuny sattha hs benlocte twenty ears ormore, addeieinhen s~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~eat Tiprpset oferve that asaqubstioenieywtut The pobjecto thtIftsgis they prefreopdsy tled by the Convent ion (and I th in k very definitely by the votes taken), placed within the power of the people for all time to control, by a majority vote, all questions submitted to their judgment. But, Mr. President, I think the vote of the people, upon a question like this Mr. HAINES, of Lake. Mr. President: Will the gentleman allow me to ask him a question? The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. Will the gentleman yield to the gentleman from Lake [Mr. Haines]? Mr. ARCHER. Well, sir, as I have but a few monments to speak, and have not spoken upon the question before, I would rather not be interrupted. Upon a question of this kind, Mr. President, I think that the vote at the ballot box should represent the legal voters of the locality to be affected, and that there should be some other mode of determining whether that vote does rep resent the majority better than that of the vote cast; for it often happens that the vote cast does not represent the wishes of the whole people, or of all the legal voters of the locality to be affected. I think it was the sense and meaning of the Convention of 1847 that the vote of a majority of the legal voters of the county should be required to determine the question, not a majority of the legal votes cast. The supreme court, however, have fixed a new method of determining the vote of a countv-by the number of votes cast at the election. The proposition of the gentleman from Crawford [MIr. Allen], it appears to me, presents to this Convention a proper method of determining whether the votes cast (for or against the removal of a coun ty seat) do represent the majority of the whole vote in the county. The vote, un der the present laws, is a registered vote. There is a mode of ascertaining the full vote of every county in the State, through the registry. These boards of registers sit regularly, twice a year, to register the vote, and it is the only prac ticable method now in force of determin ing what the vote of the county is. fhe proposition of the gentleman from Crawford [Mr. Allen] then makes the registered vote a means of determining whether the vote cast upon the particular question-for or against the removal of a county seat-represents a majority, one way or the other,,upon the question sub mitted to the people. Now, while, as I remarked before, I think the majority of the people should control the question, I think that it should be a true majority vote of the whole number of legal voters in the county. In order to arrive at that, some method is necessary, some mode of determining how many votes the county, ill which the particular question is agitated, casts, and what other method is there of determining that question in point of fact? It is true. awn arbitrary method, such as that established by the supreme court, making the nlumber of votes cast at the election, represent the vote of the county, may be adopted, but that may fall very far short of determining upon porinciples of justice and right, the real vote of the county, and there seems to be no -other methodl of determining that fact than through the registered vote of the county. For these reasons I still oppose any motion, or any amendment offered, to determine the question other~'lse than by a I r I s e e e I e I CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION TiuRsDAY, 1532 APRIL 28, 1870. DEBATES AXD PRO()EEDI~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~GS. 1533~~~~ maoiyvt.YtIa nfvro n o,i ssi ht h aoiyogtueu n raetl nhnrt h Now, it is said that the majority ought to rule. They ought on some subjects, and on some they ought not. A majority of whom? Of women? Of children? A majority of the inhabitants? Nobody will pretend that. A majority of the persons that may be employed upon a railroad, perhaps at the edge of a county, under the influence of persons interested in changing the county seat? Should it be controlled by a majority of them? No person will pretend that. A majority of the permanent citizens of a county? For their opinion upon a question like this, some respect should be entertained. But a bare majority of the persons who may live in a State one year, in a county only ninety days, and in a voting place thirty days, should not carry one of these questions. Their opinions may not be worth a straw. It is a fraud upon the elective franchise, and these county seat elections are adapted to bring the elective franchise into disrepute. So far from men thinking that the voice of the people is the voice of God, they'will presently think that the voice of the people is the voice of the devil. To allow a bare majority, influenced by money considerations, packed into a county as they have been heretofore, for the very purpose of voting upon these questions to decide them, is a farce upon suffrage, and a perversion of the majority principle. Now, it would, to some extent, remove this evil if the amendment is adopted, that three-fifths of the actual residents shall be able to change the county seat, and require a great expense to be put upon the county by erecting newC county buildings, etc. There is some plausibility in that. Three-fifths of the people of a county, may possibly be a majority of the bonafide and solid men of the county; but if a bare majority is only needed, influences will be brought to work, that will make the election a fraud and a sham, calculated to irritate the people and destroy their confidence in the majority pr inciple. Such elections are calculated to arouse the lowest instincts Grd Almighty allows to exist in the human breast. Town lot speculations and dollars and cents, are controlling influences in these elections. We must give the moral power some little influence over the dollar power, to do right. tHence, if we put in three-fifths there would, perhaps, be a majority of the permanent citizens likely to vote at these elections-to say whether they would incur this large indebtedness that would be required to move county seats. Give some permanency to your county seats. If you build your county seat like a house on the sand, every rain and storm and wind of faction and selfishness will sweep county seats from point to point in a county. Then nothing will be solid, permanent or settled. We will never have substantial county buildings. People will be fearful to erect them. No man will remove to a county seat, or make valuable improvements there, for he will have no assurance that it will remain there long. We will build our houses on sand. It is much better to build on rock, that men may make their homes at a county seat with some confidence of permanency. And our county seats will, then, as they should, be prosperous villages or cities, withall the requisite public buildings, *YEAS. Abbott, Eldredge, Perley, Allen of Alex. Ellis, Peirce, Allen of C'fd. Fox, Sharp, Anthony, Gamble, Snyder, Archer, Goodhue, Tincher, Atkins, Hankins, Tubbs, Browning, Hart, Wait, Cary, Harwood, Wall, Cody, Hay, Washburn, Coolbaugh, McCoy, Wheaton, Cross, Parker, Whiting, Dement, Parks, Wilson-36. NAYS. Anderson, Fuller, Rice, Bayne, Goodell, Ross, Benjamin, Haines of CookScholfield, Bowman, Haines of LakeSherrill, Buxton, Hayes Springer Church, Hildrup, Sutherland, Craig, McDowell, Turner, Cummings, Medill, Underwood, English, Merriam, Wagner, Forman, Moore, Wright-30. majori ty vote. Yet I am in favor of any proposition that can be introduced which may furnish an easy and certain method of determining what the total vote of that county may be, and the proposition submitted by the gentleman from Crawford [Mr. Allen] appears to me about the most plausible, and the most reasonable and just method that has yet been offered to the Convention. For these reasons I favor the substitute that has been offered to the Convention. Mr. GAMBLE. Is an amendment in order.? The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The question is now on the amendment of the gentleman from Knox [Mr. Craig], to strike out the word " majority," and insert "three-fifths." An amendment to insert other matter would be in order. The Secretary read the amendment offered by Mr. Gamble, as follows: Provided further, that no person shall vote on such question who has not resided in the county six months next preceding such election. Mr. UNDERWOOD. Mr. President: "Let us have peace." This is a good motto, not only with reference to national and State affairs, but is also equally applicable to county and city affairs. Every person knows that these county controversies are not only mischievous to the people of the county, but injurious to the people of the whole State. More fraud has been practiced in these contro. versies, where men's interests are so-deeply at stake, than in all other relations. A county does not improve, has not so much taxable property, where these con-troverses exist, as other counties where they do not exist, and where the county seat is settled. Men going into a county would like to know what part of a county to settle in. Most persons desire to be near a county seat. They wish to know the condition of the county before settling and making investments. Men living in a county where the county seat is uncertain, will be ready to move away, if the county seat is changed, or is in a condition to be changed. Persons will change their residence to different parts, from time to time, as long as the question is open. Again, the evil in this State is very serious with reference to public buildings. The whole State is interested in having good court houses, jails, and poor-houses, which ought to be near the county seat. If a county seat is unsettled, and if the county commissioners or the board of supervisors, unfavorable to a removal of the county seat, happen to get into power, they will probably do as they did in Macoupin county —invest millions in county buildings, in order to make the county seat so settled that it never can be removed. On the other hand, if the county commissioners or board of supervisors reside wvhere they want it changed, or if they want the county seat removed, they will fail to mnake the necessary and proper public improvements at that county seat tha.tl the interests of the community require. The history of former controversies is filled with lessons to every reflective mind, and to every good citizen, and we ought, if possible, to avoid them in the future.': AnBSENT, OR NOT VOTING. Bromwell, Neece, Truesdale, Brown, Pillsbury, Vandeventer, Bryan, Poage, Wells, Cameron, Robinson, Wendling, Hanna, Sedgwick, Mr. President-17. King, Skinner, So the motion of Mr. Allen, of Alexander, to lay on the table the amendment offered by Mr. Craig, was agreed to. Mr. GAMBLE. Mr. President: I now renew my amendment. The Secretary read the amendment offered by Mr. Gamble, as follows: Provided, further, That no person shall vote on such question who has not resided in the county six months preceding such election. Mr. TINCHER. Mr. President: I move the following amendment to the amendment offered by the gentleman from Kankakee [Mr. Gamble], which is the same as was offered in the Committee of the Whole, and will, I think, cover the whole case. I believe it is a panacea for the whole question. I will read it: Provided, further, That the question of the removal of the county seat shall not be oftener submitted than once in ten years to a voteiof the people. Mr. TURNER. Mr. President: I would suggest to the gentleman from Kankakee [Mr. Gamble], to insert the word "next." Mr. ATKINS. Mr. President: If it is in order to make further amendments, I move to insert after the word "months," the words "ninety days in the election precinct." The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The amendment cannot be entertained as it is in the third degree, unless accepted by the gentleman from Kankakee [Mr. Gamble]. Mr. GAMBLE. Mr. President: I accept the amendment. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The amendment offered by the gentleman from Morgan [Mr. Atkins] is accepted. The question is upon the amendment offered by the gentleman from Vermilion [Mr. Tincher] to the amendment off&.-' 384 App.rr, 28, 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1533 useful, and ornamental, an honor to the counties and to the State. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The amendment of the gentleman from Kankakee [Mr. Gimble] to the amendment of the gentleman from Knox [Mr. Craig] is not in order now. Mr. ALLEN' of Alexander. I move to lay the amendment of the gentleman from Knox [Mr. Craig] on the table. The yeas and nays were ordered, and being taken, resulted-yeas 36, nays 30 -as follows: 153w CO~STTUTJO~AL )O~YE~TIONTHIJRSDAY than once in ten years to a vote of the peo ple. Mr. ALLEN, of Crawford. Mr President: I move to amend by striking out the words, in the second and third lines"voting on the question," so that it shall require a majority of the voters of the county. Mr. ATKINS. Mr. President: The amendment of the gentleman from Crawford [Mr. Allen] is, as I understand it, to strike out the provision which requires simply a majority of the voters of a county voting on the question. I wish to offer the followit g amendment to that amendment: Strike out the words "voting on the question," in second line, and insert after the word "county," "to be determined by the number of votes cast in the county at the last preceding State election." The object of my amendment, Mr. President, is to require and secure a full vote of the voters of the county, on the question of the removal of a county seat. It is to be presumed that at all general State elections, a full vote of the county will be cast. If a majority of the voters voting at the last preceding State elec tion is required in all cases to secure the removal of county seats, it seems to me likely to do away with the objection made, that a minority of the voters of a county may, in consequence of a small vote, unfairly and unjustly secure the re moval of county seats. It has been urged by some gentlemen that this object could be attained by sim ply providing that the majority of the registered voters should be required, in order to effect a removal of a county seat. That suggestion seems to be a very fair and plausible one. If the registry lists were in fact full and accurate, prior to the occurrence of the election, then that would unquestionably be a correct rule; but it is well known that such registry lists, made up by the registry officers, are neither full nor accurate. It is in the power of the registry officers, and will continue to be, to make those lists large or small, as they choose. They can put on the registry lists the names of all the voters in each particular election district, or, if they choose to disregard their du ties and the law, they can add to it the names of persons who are not legal voters, to any extent. Such practices have been indulged in by registry officers, in some of the counties, when bittter controversies have been raging in the State. On the other hand, they may leave off, by accident, negligence or design the names of a large number of legal voters of the district, and, in that way, perhaps only three-fourths of the number of legal volunteers mnay have actually been registered prior to election. So, Mr. President, it would be entirely in the power of the registering ()fficerss in the different districts, either by impropebrly swelling the lists or by improperly omitting to make the lists of voters full and correct, to secure, under color of such improper, incorrect or fraudulent lists, made prior to any such election, the removal, or defeat the removal of county seats, according to their pleasure, irrespective of the real popular will. That course opens the door, it seems to me, to great abuses and frauds, and is therefore unjustifiable and wrong, although seemingly right on first inspec. tion. by the gentleman from Kankakee [Mr. Gamble]. Mr. HAINES, of Cook. Mr. President: Will theChair inform us whether that corresponds with the article we have adopted on the subject of suffrage? The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The Chair is not informed as to that. Mr CARY. Mr. President: Let the section togethe r with the amendments be read. The Secretary read the section, together with the amendments offered by Messrs. Gamble, Atkins and Tincher, as follows: SEC. 4. No county seat shall be removed u n til the point to which it is proposed to be removed shall be fixed by law, and a majority of the voters of the county, voting on the question shall have voted in favor of its removal to such point. Provided, That no person shall vote on such question who has not resided in the county six months, and in the election precinct ninety days, next preceding such election. Prov,ided, further, That the question of the removal of the county seat shall not be often er submitted than once in ten years to a vote of the people. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The question is upon the amendment offered by thegentleman from Vermilion [Mr. Tiucher.] Mr. McCOY. Mr. President: I call for the yeas and nays. Mr. GOODHUE. Mr. President: I wish to ask whether what has been offered is not like my substitute offered yesterday? I understand the substance is the same. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The Secretary will read the substitute offered by the gentleman from Will [Mr. Goodhue]. The Secretary read the substitute offered by Mr. Goodhue, as follows: And the question of removing county seats shall not be submitted to a vote of the people any oftener than once in ten years. Mr. CODY. Mr. President: After the word " fixed," the substitute contains the words "in pursuance of law," and the word "by" is to be stricken out, as I understand it. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The question is upon the amendment offered by the gentleman fro:x Vermilion [Mr. Tincher]. The amendment was agreed to. MVr. HAINES, of Cook. Is the amenldment of the gentleman from Vermilion [Mr. Tincher] included in the amendment of the gentleman from Kankakee [Mr. Gamble]? The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The Chair will state the question. The gentleman from Kankakee [Mr. Gamble] offered an amendment to the section; to that the gentleman from V ermilion [Mr. Ti nchef] offered an am enidmen t, which has been adopted. The gentleman from Kalikakee [Mr. Gamble] also accepted all amendment offered by the gentleman from Morgan [Mr. Atkins], which is now included. The question is on the adoption of the amendment as amended. The Secretary read the amendment ouffered by Mr. Gamble, as amended by Mr. Atkins, as followe: Provided, that no person ~hall vote on such question who has not resided in the county six: months, and the election precinct ninety days, next' preceding such election. Abbott, Fuller, Peirce, Allen, of Alex. Gamble, Rice, Allen of Crfd. Goodell, Ross, Anderson, Goodhue, Sny der, Ant hony, Hal nes of Cook,Sp ringer, Archer, Haines of LakeTincher, Atkins, Hankins, Tubbs, Bayne, Hart, Turner, Benjamin, Harwood, Underwood, Bowman, Hay, Wagner, Cary, Hayes, Wall, Church, Hildrup, Washburn, Coolbaugh, McCoy, Wells, Craig, McDowell, Wheaton, Cross, Medill, Whiting, Cummings, Merriam, Wilson, Dement, Moore, Wright-53. English, Perley, NAYS. ABSENT OR NOT VOTING. Bromwell, Hanna, Sharp, Brown, King, S3herrill, Bryan, Neece, Skinner Buxton, Pillsbury, Truesdale, Cameron, Poage, Vandeventer, Cody, Robinson, Wendling, Eldredge, Sedgwick, Mr. President-21. So the amendment offered by Mr. Gamble, as amended, was agreed to. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The question is on the amendment offered by the gentleman frcm Will [Mr. Goodhue]. Mr. WHEATON. Mr. President: I offer a further amendment to the original section: In the second line strike out the word "by," and insert "in pursuance of." By the legislative article, we have provided that no special act can be passed with regard to the removal of a county seat. Of course, the place can never be fixed by any special act, but must be fixed in pursuance of some general law. I move, then, to strike out "by" in the second line, and insert the words "in pulrsuance of." Mr. ARCHER. Mr. President: I move to lay that amendment on the table. A division was ordered. The Convention divided, when, there boing no quorum voting Mr. ARCHER. Mr. President: I withdraw the motion. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The question recurs upon the amendment of the gentleman from Kane [Mr. Wheaton]. The amendment was agreed to. Mr. GOODHUE. Mr. President: I will withdraw the substitute which I offered, as the objects of that substitute have already been accomplished by the amendment. ["Question on the section." "Read."] Mr. ALLEN, of Crawford. Mr. President: I ask that the section, as amended, be read. The Secretary read section four, as amended, as follows: SEC. 4. No county seat shall be removed until the point to which it is proposed to be removed shall be fixed in pursuance of law, and a majority of the voters of the county, to be ascertained in such manner as shall be provided by general law, shall have voted in favor of its removal to such point: Provided, that no person shall vote on such question who has not resided in the county six months and in the election district ninety days, next preceding such election: Provided, further, tha t the question of the removal of the county seat shall not be oftener submitted 1534 CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION TEUILZSDA'R, TEAS. Browning, Ellis, Foruaan, Fox,.. SchoTfleld, Parker Sutherland, Park.,' Wait-9. The yeas, and nays were ordered, and, be!Dg taken, resultedyeas 53, nays 9 s follows: - ArRIL 28, 1870. DEBATES AXD 1'OCEEDIGS. 1535 Mr. ALLEN, of Crawford.'I r. Presi dent: There is a motion pending, made by myself, to strike out the words-"vot ing on the question," and it has not yet been determined by the Convention. Mr. TURNER. Mr. President: Weare entitled to have the vote cn striking out first. I ask for a division of the ques tion. Mr. CODY. Mr. President: I desire simply to call the attention of the gentle. man from Crawford [Mr. Allen] to the fact that this language was inserted here for the purpose of making it conform to the other sections of the article, and also conform to the decision of the supreme court of this State, in which they have given a construction to the language in the present Constitution, by which they s y that there is no practical method of determining who the letgal voters of a county are, except by considering those voting at the election. Similar decisions have been made in Wisconsin upon similar provisions, and the object of using this language, I suppose, is to conform to these decisions, and make the language of the several sections of this article uniform. Mr. ALLEN, of Crawford. Mr. Prest ident: It is true that our supreme court has decided that the only mode they have of determining who voters are, is by reference to the poll books. That decision was rendered upon a case that arose before we had any registry law, when of course, that was the only mode. I think it would be difficult, under our registry law, to have a different decision. Mr. CODY. Mr. President: The force of the decision is, that a majority of the legal voters of a county means a majority of the legal voters thus voting at the election. Mr. ALLEN, of Crawford. Mr. President: The supreme court say the only way they can determine how many legal voters there are in a county is, by reference to the poll-books. Now, the proposition is to strike out "voting on the question," and fix a rule which will determine whether a majority are in favor of removal. I hope the words will be stricken out. Mr. McCOY. Mr. President: I wish to ask the gentleman from Crawford [Mr. Allen], one question: Suppose the registry law should be repealed, what would then become of his proposition? tMr. ALLEN, of Crawford. Mr. President: There is nothing in the proposi tion in reference to the registry law. I simply wish to strike out the words "voting on the proposition," so that it will require a majority of the legal voters of the county. eMr. WAIT. Mr. Presid nt: I object to that proposition. I think a man who will not vote should not be counted. M. 4r. HAINES, of Lake. It might be impossible for a man to vote. He might be absent on public business or necessary business of his own, and ought not, therefore, to be disfranchised. If a man has any calamity, it is our business to protect ohim in some way. The PRESIDENT, pro temrpore. The question is on the proposition of the gentleman from Crawford. The amendment offered by Mr. Allen, of Crawford, was agreed to. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The question is now on the adoption of the amendment of the gentleman from Mor to. [The following is s ection four, a s amended and agreed to:] SEC. 4. No county seat shall be removed until the point to which it is proposed to be removed shall be fixed in pursuance of law, and a mlajorit of the voters of the county, to be ascertained in such manner as shall be provided by general law, shall have voted in favor of its removal to such point: Provided, That no person shall vote on such question who has not resided in the county six months, and in the election precinct ninety days, next preceding such election: Provided, further, That the question of the removal of the coun ty seat shall not be oftener submitted than once in ten years to a vote of the people. Mr. TURNER. Mr. President: Yes terday I introduced an amendment to the first section, and I now wish to have the vote by which that amendment was adopted reconsidered. The amendment was, that any city having 200,000 population or over, might be organized into a county. I stated, at the time, that my object in offering the amendment was, that Chicago might some time desire to be organized into a separ ate county, and it seemed to meet the approval of a portion of the Cook county delegation, although they had not considered it. On consultation this morning that delegation thought it would not be agreeable to the people of Cook county, and as it would only affect that county, I move a reconsideration. The Secretary read section one, as follows: SECTION 1. No new county shall be formed or established by the General Assembly, which will reduce the county or counties, or either of them, from which it shall be taken, to less contents than four hundred square miles (but cities having a population of two hundred thousand or more, nay be organized into a separate county), nor shall any counts be formed of less contents; nor shall any line thereof pass within less than ten miles of any county seat of the county or counties proposed to be divided. Mr. HAINES, of Lake. Mr. President: I would ask what can be the objection, if a city desires to be created into a cou-nty. If it wishes to form a separate cor. poration for judicial or county purposes, why not leave the provision so that it may be done? Mr. ANTHONY. Mr. President: It would make about three counties out of Cook county, and I think the people do not want it at the present time. The people outside the city of Chicago are very much interested in this matter, and it ought to be carefully considered. Mr. HAINES, of Lake. Mr. President- The gentleman does not seem to understand my inquiry. The proposition is that a city may be erected into a county. If it does not want to be erected~ into a county, the section leaves is so that there is no compulsion, but it may be so erected. My opinion is, as has been before expressed:by members, that when this Convention dissolves, all the wisdod[ of Again, Mr. President, our law with reference to the registration of voters is not required or recognized by the Con stitution, and should not by this indirect mode be recognized. There is nothing in the present Constitution or in the one we propose to submit, that provides for or alludes to the subject of a registry law, or makes it incumbent upon the Gen eral Assembly either to pass one or maintain one, for any time. Our registry law may be wholly repealed, and then we would have, if the plan I have alluded to is fixed in the Constitution, a provision which would imply the necessity, by a constitutional sanction, of a permanent continuance of the present registry law, when, in point of fact, it might not be needed, and might no longer be on the statue book. Mr. PERLEY. Mr. President: I am opposed to encouraging men to stay at home on election days, or to excusing thenm for doing so, and I hope the proposition of the gentleman from Crawford [Mr. Allen] will be voted down. Mr. FULLER. I will ask the gentleman from Morgan [Mr. Atkins] what the effe ct of his amendment would be, in case there were more voters voting at the election to remove the county seat than there were at the last State election. Under that amendment might it not happen that there might be a majority of all the votes cast at the last State election, and might not be a majority of the votes cast at the election for the removal of the county seat? I think, if I understand his proposition, that it ought to be a little more specific. For myself, I should favor a proposition of that kind, if made free from that objection. Mr. ATKINS. Mr. President: I amn not particular about the form of my proposition. I will accept any amendment. Mr. HAY. Mr. President: I make this suggestion to the gentleman from Morgan [Mr. Atkins] and the gentleman from Crawford [Mr. Allen], whether it would not be better to adopt this phraseology: "a majority of the votes to be ascertained in such manner as may be provided by general law.I" Mr. ATKINS. I accept that amendment, Mr. President. Mr. WAIT. Mr. President: I would be glad to hear the amendments as they now stand. The Secretary read the amendment offered by Mr. Atkins and amended by Mir. Hay, as follows. Insert after the word "county," in the seconduline, the following: "To be ascertained in suhmanner as shall be provided by gener The Secretary read section four, as proposed to be amended by Mr. Atkins, as follows: SEC. 4. No county seat shall be removed until the point to which it is proposed to be removed shah be fixedd in pursuance of law, and a majority of the voters of the county (to be ascertained in such manner as shall be provided by general law) shall have voted in iivor of its removal to such point: iProvided, that no person shall vote on such question wvho has not resided in the county six months and in the- election precinct ninety days next preceding such election: P'rovided, further, that the question of the removal of the county seat shall not be oftcrier submitted than once in ten years to a vrote of the people. Mir. HAY. Mr. President: That would require the words "voting onl the nuestion" to be stricken out. q DEBATES AND P-ROCEEDINGS. 1.535 APRIL 28, 1870. gan [Mr. Atkinsll as amended by the gentleman from Sangamon [Mr. Hay]. . The Secretary read the amendment offered by Mr. Atkins, as amended by Mr. Hay, as follows: To be ascertained in such manner as shall be provided by general law. The amendment offered by Mr. Atkins, as amedded by Mr. Hay, was agreed to. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The question is now on section four as amended. Section four, as amended, was agreed 1536 c'OSTITUTJOAL C()NYETJO THURSDAY, The question is: Shall the decision of the Chair be sustained? Mr. CARY. Mr. President: The ques tion presented this morning is entirely different from the one presented yester day. The reason for that instruction was, that the Convention understood that they had already adopted, as an amend ment, the words that the Committee on Revision and Adjustment were instructed to insert, but which, through inadvertence, were not inserted when the section was adopted. The committee were therefore instructed to put them where the Con vention had already voted that they be longed. Now, however, the proposition of the gentleman from Stephenson [Mr. Turner] is to direct the Committee on Revision and Adjustment to strike out what the Convention have deliberately inserted, and to thus indirectly reconsider the sec tion. I submit that the cases are not at all similar. Mr. WALL. Mr. President: If it is designed by this vote to establish a pre cedent and settle a new rule, I hope the decision of the Chair will stand as the judgment of the Convention. If we adopt a rule that the Convention can at any time instruct the Committee on Revision to strike out or materially alter any section-that a majority of the members present, can, in that way, attack and overrule what has already been de cided by the Convention, and referred to the Committee on Revision, we can never get through. I trust that if this motion is to be considered in the light of a precedent, we will stand by the decision of the Chair. So far as mere matters of form are concerned, it might be very well to have a rule by which the Committee on Revision and Adjustment might be instructed, but that rule, in my judgment, would be subject to very great abuse; and, on the whole, I think it would be much safer for us to have no such practice in any case. Mr. TURNER. Mr. President: I hope that the Chair will not be sustained, for the reason that we shall certainly be required, before we get through, to make some modifications in our work. We shall ourselves discover where modifications will be necessary, when we examine our work, after the Committee on Revision and Adjustment have ieported, and I submit it will be better to make such changes as we deem necessary before going to that committee. Mr. HAY. When their report comes in, will not the matter be regularly before the Convention I Mr. TURNER. I do not know that it will. Mr. WALL. When their report comes in, will not the order be upon agreeing or disagreeing with the whole, or any part, of the report? Mr. TURNER. Then that course will lead to the same difficulties already pointed out, and we will have to remain as in the other case. Mr. ANTHONY. I think if the gentleman will renew the motion to reconsider and postpone, it will be better. I was not aware of the motion of the gentmleman to insert 200,000. It would be a disturbing influence in our county. m Mr. ROSS. I hope the gentleman will withdraw the appeal. Mr. TURNER. I think there are other sections we may desire to modify, but I CALAMITY IN RICHMOND, VIRGINIA. Mr. HAYES. Mr. President: I have a resolution which I believe will meet w ith the unan imou s c oncurrence of the Convention. I am informed, sir, this morning, by telegraph, that a very serious and terrible calamity has occurred in the city of Richmond, Virginia, and that a large number of the public men of the State of Virginia have been kiled by the falling of the floor of the State House. I send up the telegram to be read by the Secretary. The Secretary read the telegram, as follows: RICHMOND, April 27.-A large crowd assembled this morning in the up',er portion of the capitol building, where the supreme court is located, to hear the decision in the mayoralty case. About eleven o'clock the floor gave way beneath the immense weight, prei_pitating the crowd to the floor below, which was that of the house of delegates. It is hard to ascertain at present the extent of injuries, so great is the excitement, but some are killed, and a large number are severely injured. Many escaped the terrible fall by jumping into the windows when the floor gave way. LATER-It is impossible to ascertain the extent of the injuries at this hour. Among the killed are Mr. Phaylitte, a distinguished lawyer; Dr. J. B. Brock, reporter of the Ex. aminer; Samuel Eaton, counsel to Mayor Cahoon,* Captain William A# Charters, chief of the fire department; N. P. Howard, law 1536 CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION TiiURSDAY, the State will not -perish. I do not believe we are a commission of lunacy upon the affairs of this State, to prevent the people from doing what they desire to do hereafter. I think it is the desire of the people to leave the General Assembly something to do hereafter. It is very proper that they shall be allowed to decide whether they will have their large cities erected into counties or not. I believe the time will come when the people of Chicago will desire that city to be erected into a county, and I think they should be a] lowed to do so. Mr. TURNER. Mr. President: The question is only upon reconsideration and upon that I move the previous question. Mr. WHEATON. Mr. President: Is this a motion to reconsider the whole section? I suppose that will have to be done. Mr. TURNER. The only object is to strike out the amendment, and if that cannot be done, without reconsid'eri-ng the vote by whcih the whole section was adopted, let that be the order. I will, however, withdraw my motion to reconsider, and I will make another. I.uow move that the Committee on Revision and Adjustment be instructed to strike out the amendment in the first sectioi-i, as follows:. But cities having a population of 200,000 or more may be organized into a county. The PRESIDENT pro tempo7-e. The Chair is hardly prepared to say that that is iii order. A motion of that kind was entertained before, because the subject of the motion was an error. This is a direct motion to amend. Mr. FOX. Mr. President: It was entertained, also, by unanimous consent. Mr. TURNER. Mr. President: I believe that principle of instructing the Committee on Revision and Adjustment has been recognized here. And it is the best way we can remedy defects or make any alterations that we may desire. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The Chair is of the opinion that without a rule to that effect the motion could not be entertained except by unanimous consent of the Convention. Mr. FOX. I object. Mr. MEDILL. Mr. President: I would inquire whether that principle was not recognized? Mr. CODY. Mr. President: The dif will withdraw it at the request, of the gentleman. Mr. HAYES. I rise to a question of order. The gentleman from Stephenson [Mr. Turner] moved to reconsider, and upon that the Convention ordered the previous question. I think it is too late for the gentleman to withdraw his motion. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. Gentlemen have been allowed in all cases, I believe, since this Convention met, to wi'thdraw propositions. The Chair thinks the view has been very liberal, and in view of that, will allow the gentleman to withdraw his motion. Mr. TURNER. I withdraw my motion, as it seems to be the desire of members that the ruling Of the Chair shall stand, and as we may reach the same object when the report of the Committee on Revision and Adjustment comes up. Mr. SCHOLFIELD. Mr. President: I desire to offer, for the consideration of the Convention, a separate, section upon the question of the removal of county seats, to be submitted to a vote of the people. Since I addressed the Convention, a few moments ago, at the instance of a number of gentlemen who are interested in the question, I have made some modification of the section I then read. I desire to offer it as a separate section. Mr. WHEATON. Mr. President: I rise to a question of order. I do not like to interrupt the gentleman from Clark [Mr. Schol-field], but an additional section is not in order until we get through with the report. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The Chair is of opinion that it -has been the ,decision of the President of this Convention, acquiesced in by the Convention, that additional sections must come in at the end of the article. Mr. SCHOLFIELD. Very well. It is immaterial to me, so that I have au opportunity to present it to the Convention. APRIL 28, 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1537 yer; A. Levy, merchant; Charles Watson, of Danville; R. Schofield, P. Walter, General Schofield, R. H. Murray, Jr., Serator Bland, (colored), and P. Roberts. It is supposed that twenty members of the State Legislature were killed and wounded. The judges of the court of appeals all escaped unhurt. Ex-Governor Wells was badly injured; S. H. Chandler, counsel for Cahoon in the mayoralty case, was injured; James Mason and Judge Meredith, counsel for Ellison, are also badly hurt. About two hundred persons were hurt by the accident. The greatest excitement prevails. Hundreds of persons on capital square are weeping and wailing as the dead and dying are brought from the building. Governor Walker escaped unhurt, though on the court room floor at the time. LATEST.-Fifty-seven persons were killed, including many prominent citizens from this and other sections of the State, and about one hundred and twenty wounded. Directly after the disaster, the hook and ladder companies of the city came to the rescue, and a cordon of police was drawn around the building, and ladders thrown up to the windows. For three hours the scene was full of horror. Minuteafter minute there appeared, swung out by a rope tied around the middle, the body of some popular favorite. The manled and dead were brought out upon the green of the public park, which was soo n surrounded by two or three thousand persons. The park was filled with weeping women and anxious men, until tw o o' clock, whe n the last victim w as d raw n fr om the building. Af ter this the police closed the park anedrefused admittance to any one. All the stores in the city are closed. Placards are p ut up on the doors, "Closed in consequence of the disaster at the capitol." All business is suspended. To-night a meeting will be held, of members of the press, associations, late military organizations and citizen s generally. Tomorrow will be observed as a day of general mourning. MreS.HAYES. I will not seek, sir, in w ords to express my own feelings in regard to this afflicting dispensation of Providence. I offer a preamble and reso lutions which I doubt not will meet the nnanimous concurrence of the members of the Convention. The Secretaryread the preamble and resolutions offered by Mr. Hayes, as fol,lows: W13:EREAS, On yesterday, the 27th inst., at Richmond, in the State of Virginia, the floor of the capitol building ELave way beneath the weight of a crowd of people assembled in the court room' and thereby fifty seven persons were killed and one hundred and twenty wounded, including many of the most valued and useful citizens of the State, Be it resolved by the Constitutional Convention of the State of Illinois, That we are greatly aftected by this sudden calamity. We grieve with the friends and kindred of the lamented dead; and we deeply sympathize with the sufferingss of the wounded, and the distress of their families and neighbors. We unite with the people of the State of Virginia in profound sorrow for a public loss so overwhelming. Resolved, That a copy of this preamble and resolutions be certified by the President and Secretary, and transmitted to his excellency, Gilbert C. Walker, Governor of the State of lirginia. Resolved, That the Convention do now adjourn. ADJOURNMENT. Mr. EHAYES.! move the adoption of the preamble and resolutions by a standing vote The preamble and resolutions were unanimously agreed to by a standing vote. So the Convention (at twelve o'clock and twelve minutes) adjourned. COUNTIES. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The next section in order is section five of the article on counties. The Secretary read section five, as follows: SEc. 5. In each county there shall be elected the following county officers: County jud ge, sheriff, county clerk, clerk of the circuit court, (who may be ex officio recorder of deeds, except in all counties having forty thousand and more inhabitants, in which counties a recorder of deeds shall be elected at the general elec ion in 1872), t-easurer, surveyor and coroner, each of whom shall enter upon the duties of their office respectively, on the first Monday of December after their election; and they shall hold their respective offices for the term of four years, except the offices of treasurer, sheriff and coroner, who shall hold their offices for two years, and until their successors shall be elected and qualified. Mr. CROSS. Mr. President: I move to am nd by striking out in the third lic e, "forty," and inserting "sixty." I believe that if this amendment is adopted, it will save to the tax-payers in counties havinig between forty thousand and sixty thousand inhabitants, from fifteen hundred dollars to twenty-five hundred dollars a year. I theretore hope it will be adopted. Mr. CRAIG. If I recollect correctly, the word asked to be stricken out was an amendment made in Committee of the Whole, and adopted by the Convention. If that be so, the motion of the gentleman from Winnebago [Mr. Cross] would not be in order, unless the section be reconsidered. Mr. CROSS. Then I move that it be reconsidered. Mr. ALLEN, of Crawford. I submit it cannot by reconsidered now, inasmuch as m,ire than two business days have passed since its passage. Mr. WHEATON. It was acted on yesterday. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The question is on the nmotion to reconsider. eMr. UNDERWOOD. How did the g- antleman from Winnebago [Mr. Cross] vote? Mr. CROSS. I do not recollect how I did vote. The minutes will show. Mr. HAINES, of Lake. The presumption is that the gentleman voted in the affirmative, until the contrary is showin. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The question is on the motion to reconsider. The yeas and nays were ordered, and being taken, resulted-yeas, 36; nays, 17 * as follows: So the motion of Mr. Cross, to reconsider the amendment re ported by th e CommNittee of the Whole, inse rting "forty" in section five of the report of the Committee on Counties, was agreed to. Mr. CROSS. Mr. President: I now renew my motion to strike out forty thousa n d, and in sert sixty thousand Mr. ATKINS. Mr. President: I move to amend by making it forty-five thousand. Mr. HAINES, of Laker. Mr. President: I move to strike out all from "except" in third line, to "1872" in the fourth line, inclusive. This will strike out theis p roposition in relation to special offices in counties having a certain po pulation. This idea that population in a county should disarrange the organization of county affairs, is a bad pr inciple. It only increases the expense to the people. When application is made to have a deed recorded, the person should know to what officer to apply, and this should be uniform throughout the State. Mir. CARY. Mr. President: As I believe that bv dividing the offices of circuit clerk and recorder of deeds, the people in small counties will be subjected to unnecessary expense, I move to lay both the amendment offered by the gentleman from Lake [MNlr. Haines], and the amendment offered by the gentleman from Morgan [Mr. Atkins] upon the table. Mr. ATKINS. Mr. President: I call for a division of the question. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The question is first upon the motion to lay the amendment of the gentleman from Lake [Mr. Haines] upon the table. The motion was agreed to. The PRESIDENT pro ternpore. The question is on the motion to lay the amendment of the gentleman from Morgan [Mr. Atkins] upon the table. The motion was agreed to. Mr. UNDERWOOD. Mr. President: I move to insert 50,000. The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The gentleman fr(,in St Clair [Mr. Underwood] moves to insert 50,000. Yr. ATKINS Mr. President: It was assumed by the gentleman from Jo Daviess [Mr. Cary], in the remarks he made, prior to his motion to lay both pen-dirjg amendments on the table, that by dividing the officese of circuit clerk and recorder sof deeds, an expense will be saddled u pon the people. I wish to make some remarks to show that he is entirely mistaken. Mr. CARY. Mr. President: I said the small otunties. Mr. ATKINS. Mr. President: Reference is made in this section to counties having fornty thousand and more inhabitants. To speak of small counties as being affected by this portion ofe it, as the gentleman from JoDaviess [Mr. Cary] does, is3 absurd. - The gentlemnan:claimed that expense iwoulid be made to the tax-payers by havinlg these offices d~vided..The following sectionx of this report provides tha-t t Ae Abbott, Fuller, Parks, Allen of Alex.,Gamble, Perley, Anderson, Goodhue, Peirce, Bayne, Haines of Co'k,Ross. Bowman Hart, Scholfield, Cary, Harwood, Sedgwick, Church, Hildrup, Sherrill, Coolbaugh, McCoy, Snyder, Cross, Medill, Tincher, Fl,dredge, Merriam, Wagner, Ellis, Moore, Wall, Fox, Parker, Wheaton-36. AFTERI0OON SESSIO3N. THURSDAY, April 28, 1870.' The Convention met at two o'clock' ago APRIL 28, 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 153,7 m., and was called to order by the Presi dent, pro tempore (Mr. Bromwell). A.BSENT, OR NOT VOTING. Archer, Bromwell, Brown, Bryan, Buxton Camero, Cody, English, Forman, Goodell, Haines Of Llk, Robinson, Hankinr," Skinner, Hanna, Springer, a,y,, Truesdale, H 8. Tubbs, King,' Turner, McDowell, Wait, Neece, Wells, Pillsbury, Wright, Poage, Mr. President. YEA.S. NA.YS. Allen of Crfd. Anthony, Atkins, - ",,, B6n la-min - Browning,Craig, - - Climmings, Deme-nt, Rice.. , Sharp,, I Su — Id, therla,n Underwo'od, Vandeventer, Washburn, e, Wn dlin''g, W'hiti-n'Z. I'' wilsoltl 17. L58OXTTTOA C~ETO HRDY which are represented on this floor. I may not have included all. They are Adams, Cook, Fulton, Kane, LaSalle, Madison, Peoria, Sangamon, St. Clair, Bureau, Will, McLean, Vermilion and Knox. Mr. ATKINS. Could not the gentleman's object be accomplished by striking out "shall," in line four, and inserting "may?" Mr. WHEATON. I will answer the question before I get through. That includes fourteen counties that are represented here: only four or five have voted for this provision, nine or tenl having voted against it, because neither they nor their people desire any such separation of the offices. Then, as it now stands, this is an attempt, against the vote here given of a majority of these counties, to force on them an officer they do not want or need. In section six we provide that thie county board may pay each officer $2,500; to the circuit clerk, $2,500; to a recorder of d eeds, $2,500, and now a new officer is t o be created against the expressed desire of a majority of these counties, for whose services the people are-to be taxed to p2y. The gentleman from Winnebago [Mr. Cross] suggests striking out "forty," and inserting "sixty." If counties having sixty thousand population desire the offices separated, I have no objection. Mr. UNDERWOOD. Is there any but Cook, that has sixty thousand population? Mr. WHEATON. I think that LaSalle has. It is suggested that it is fiftyone thousand, but that was in 1860. It is now over sixty thousand. The census of 1865 did not vary from that of 1860 one jot or title in three-fourths of the counties. In fact it never was taken. In our county it never M as taken. No officer ever took it in Kane county. The population of LaSalle is now over sixty thousand. Mr. HAINES, of Cook, (in his seat.) How did the census takers get at your population? Mr. WHEATON. I do not know. They did not get at it by taking the cen sus. Mr. HAINES, of Cook. Did they not get paid for it? Mr. WHEATON. I do not know whether any body got paid for it or not. It certainly was not taken. I am satisfied it was made up by somebody here in Springfield by some sort of calculation. Mr. CRAIG (in his seat). Move 70,' 000. hMr. WHEATON. The gentleman from Knox [Mr. Craig] suggests the movin g of 70,000. I do not desire to make any motion on the question. There is already a motion to insert 60,000. If there are any counties represented on this floor having 60,000 inhabitants, who desire such a provision, I will vote with them, but I ask them not to force upon our county a provision that we do not want. If the whole matter is left optional with the Legislature, giving them power to provide that in counties having 40,000 in- t habitants a recorder may be elected, there will be no objection on my part. It is suggested by the gentleman from Peoria [Mr. Welis] that I move that as an amendment. There is already an amendment w upon that question. CPe W YEAS. Hart, Harwood, Hay, Hildrup, McCoy, Medill, Merriam, Moore, Parker, Parks, Perley, Peirce, NAYS. Gamble, Turner, Goodell, Underwood, Haines of Cook, Vand eventer, Hankins, Washburn, Rice, Wendling, Sharp, Whiting, Snyder, Wilson, Sutherland, Wright25. AB SENT, O R NOT VOTING. Allen ofAlIxn, Eldredge, Neece, Anthony, English, Pillsbury, Bromwell, Haines of L'k.,Poage, Brown, Hanna, Robinson, Bryan, Hayes, Skinner, Buxton, King, Truesdale, Cameron, McDowell, Mr. President-22. Coolbaugh, So the motion of Mr. Cross to strike out "forty" was agreed to. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The question is upon filling the blank. The gentleman from Winnebago [Mir. Cross] moves to insert "sixty thousand;" the gentleman from St. Clair [Mr. Underwood] moves to insert "fifty thousand." Mr. ATKINS. I move to insert "fortyfive thousand." Mr. CRAIG. I would inquire if it is, in order to move other numbers? We are. acting under the previous question. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The previous question will still operate, not, being exhausted until the amendments are acted upon. The question will first be upon inserting "sixty thousand." The yeas and nays were ordered, and being taken, resulted —yeas, 43, nays, 20. -as follows: YEAS. Goodhue, Ross, Haines,of CookScholfield, ~aines of L'ke,Sedgwick, Hart, Sherrill, Harwood, Springer, Itay, Tincher, Hildrup, Tubbs, Meaill, Vandeventer, Merriam Wagner, Moore, Wait; Parker, ~ Wall, c ompensation and expenses of officers shall be entirely paid out of the county treasury. When we unite in the same person the offices of the clerk of the circuit court and recorder of deels, we necessarily, from the amount of business con nected with the offices in those counties, we in effect keep the circuit clerks attending to the business of the circuit court, and hence he must have some deputy or deputies under him to attend to the office of recorder. I do not think there is a county in the State, of forty thousand inhabitants, where, as a matter of fact, the two offices are not kept in separate rooms, and often, as they are in this county, in two separate rooms. The circuit clerk, as a rule, attends to the business of his court, and employs some clerk or clerks under his supervision to perform the duties of recorder. Who will pay the expense of running the offices, under the section we have adopted? As a matter of course, it will be taxed to the county by the circuit clerk. He will make up a bill of his clerk hire, and other expenses, in both offices, which will be presented to the county board or authorities, and will be paid out of the county treasury. The question is, shall we have a recorder who will give faithful attention to the duties of the office, and be directly responsible to the people, or whether the office shall be run by a clerk or deputy of the circuit clerk, and the taxpayers be forced to pay the expenses just the same as if there was a recorder? It is, therefore, not a question of saving expense at all. The presumption is, that the recorder can and will perform the duties of that office as cheaply as the circuit clerk, through his clerks and deputies. The real question is, only, whether the money needed to run the recorder's office shall be directly paid to a recorder of deeds, who is chosen to fill the office by the people, who gives the office his exclusive and personal attention, and is directly responsible to the people, or to a circuit clerk to be paid by him to his deputies or clerks? I believe in allowing the people to select a person to fill the office of recorder. Let him be a salaried officer, as well as the circuit clerk. Let the circuit clerk attend to his appropriate duties, and the recorder to his. No question of injury -to tax-payers can therefore arise. It creates a new officer, but virtually without an additional salary. In counties of over 40,000 inhabitants, all the work is done ill fact by deputies of the clerk. Why not let the people choose the man they desire, directly for that office? The office can be run as satisfsctorily and economically. I think the objections which have been urged against this forty thousand clause, are not based on reason or sound policy, and will not save anything to the tax-payers. Mr. WHEATON. Mr. President: If it was left to the General Assemnbly to provible that in counties of a certain number of inhabitants, these offices might be-separated when necessary, I would have no objection; but this is now an ab. solute constitutional provision, compelling all counties having 40,000 inhabitantse and upwards, to receive an extra officer,, whLom then must pay, though they may no5t<';:an~; any such- office. Iblhave here a list of the counties that w~ill be affeted by thirrovision, and CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION THURSDAY, 1538 Mr. WENDLING. Mr. President: The necessity of dividing the (-ffices of circuit clerk and recorder has been thorougbly discussed, both in Comn-iittee of the Whole and in ConventiOD, and I am convinced, sir, that if we proceed as slowly as this with all the articles that yet remain to be considered, we shall not get through in less than thirty days. I believe, sir, that I will move the previous question. The motion for the previous question was a-greed to, and the main question ordered. Mr. WASHBURN. Mr. President: I ask for a division of the question. The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The question is first upon striking out "forty." The yeas and nays were ordered, and b(,iDg taken, resulted-yeas, 36; i-iays, 25 -as follows: Abbott, Anderson, Bayne, Bowinan, Cary, Church, Cody, Craig, Cross, Ellis, Fox, Goodhue, Ross, Scholfi6l.d, Sedgwick, Sherrill, Springer, Tincier, Tubbs, Wagner, Wait, Wall, Wells, Wheaton-36. Allep- of Crf'd, Areller, Atkins, Benjamin, Browning, Cummings, Dement, Forman, F-aller, Abbott, Anderson, A nthony, Bayne, Bowman, Cary, Church, Cody, Coolbaugh, Craig, Cross,. APRIL 28, 1870. DEBATES AKD PROOEE1)I~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~GS. 1539~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Ellis, Parks, Wells, people will ask of us the reason for this Goodell, Snyder, Wright-90. people will ask of us the reason for this unjust discrimination between the officers, for which no reason can be given. Now, gentlemen will bear in mind that the reason why the tenure of the sheriffs was made two years under the old law was, behcause they were collectors of the revenue, and thie law requires that they shall hold their offices for two years and be ineligible to a second term, in order that they may settle up their accounts at the end of two years; whereas, in those counties which are under the township organization law, sheriffs are not collectors of revenue, and have nothing whatever to do with the settlement of accounts, as the treasurer has. The amendment does not take the treasurer out of the two years class, but requires hinm to settle his accounts every two years. There would be a manifest injustice in making the terms of sheriffs as short or shorter than that of clerks. Where they are only ministerial officers, there is no reason under heaven why they should be classed with the two years class of officers. hMr. ANTHONY. For how long a term do sheriffs hold now in counties organized under township organization law? Mr. WELLS. Two years; and by this article it is provided that sheriffs and coroners shall hold for two years. We provide that clerks of county courts and of circuit courts, judges and others, shall hold their offices for four years. Why this discrimination? Is there any reason why sheriffs should be debarred from holding office four years when the clerks have that term? The clerk does not do any more work and expends less money on the labor incident to his office than the sheriff. Why then should the sheriff be debarred from holding his office for the same length of time? Sheriffs have a much larger amount of fees, and a greater number of cases pending than the clerk has. They trust the lawyers with those fees, which accumulate to a large amount, and yet they do not have the opportunity to collect within the two years, wheareas if they were to hold office four years equal and exact justice would de done to all parties, and the sheriff be given an opportunity as fair as we give the clerk. In justice we must do this or reduce the term of office of the clerks. Mr. VANDEVENTER. If we proceed in this way wa will never get through wsith this article. I move to lay the amendment on the table. The yeas and nays were ordered, and being taken, resulted-yeas, 35, nays, 20 as follows: NAYS. Allen of Cwfd, Forman, Turner, Archer, Goodell, Underw ood, Atkins, Hankins, Washburn, Benjam in, Ri ce, Whitigng, Browning, Sharp, Wilson, Cummings, Sny der Wright-20. Dement, Sutherland, ABSENT, OR NOT VOTING. Allen, of Alx. English, Pillsbury, Bromwell, Hanna, Poage, Brown, Hayes, Robinson, Bryan, King, Skinner, Buxton, McCoy, Truesdale, Cameron, McDowell, Mr. President-20. Eldredge, Neece, So the amendment offered by Mr. Cross, tofinsert "sixty thousand," was agreed to. Mr. WELLS. Mr. President: I offer the following amendment Mr. ALLEN, of Crawford. Mr. President: I rise to a question of order. The previous question is still operating. The PRESIDENT. The previous question is upon the amendment. Mr. ALLEN, of Crawfbrd. Mr. President: I understood that it was upon the whole question. The PRESIDENT. Will the gentleman from Shelby [Mr. Wendling] state what his motion was? Mr. WENDLING. I stated to the Chair that I believed the whole question had been thoroughly discussed, and that therefbre, I moved the previous question. Mr. WELLS. Mr. President: It was stated that the motion for the previous question was on the point of order. Gentlemen so understood and voted upon that understanding. I so voted for it, myself. If, in the opinion of the Chair, the previous question applies to the whole section, I shall be compelled to move a reconsideration. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The Chair is of the opinion that the motion was intended to apply only to the amendment, and will so hold, unless the Convention shall decide otherwise. Mr. WELLS. Mr. President: I will now offer my amendment. The Secretary read the amendment offered by Mr. Wells, as follows: Add to the end of the section, the following: "Sheriffs and coroners hereafter elected in counties under township organization shall hold four years." Mr. WELLS. Mr. President: That is designed to be added to the end of the section. The fkirness and necessity of such amendment, I believe, will be apparent to every gentleman. We have, by a previous part o)f this section, given to the clerks a term of four years. I believe the people wall be well satisfied with that. The sheriff does a large amount of work —more than the clerk does. He is subject to a large expense for horse and carriage hire and tavern bills, when away from home, in the country, serving process. His costs in a case are not paid in advance, and the fees accumulate for two years without opportunity to collect them. If he has two more years, he will be able to collect fees and get in the amount due him for services rendered. It is no more than Sair to treat the sheriff, who does more work, as well as we do the clerk. Beo ABSENT, OR NOT VOTING. Allen of Alxtn,Ellis, Peirce, Atkins, English, Pillsbury, Bromwell, a, Hanna, Poage, Brown, Hayes, Robin son, Bryan, King, Skinner, Buxton, McDowell, Springer, Camero n, Medill, Truesdale, Cary, Nseece, Wheaton, Cody, Perley, Mr. President-28. Eldredge, So the motion of Mr. Vandeventer to lay on the table th e amendment offered by Mr. Wells, was agreed to. Mr. ALLEN, of Crawford. Mr. Pre,,ident: I demand the previous question upon the adoption of the section. Mr. SNYDER. Mr. President: I d esire to offer an amendment, which I had no opportunity to offer in Committee of the Whole. I have not consumed much of the time of the Convention, and I do think it not very courteous in gentlemen who occupy a good deal of time in disCuSSioD, to cut me off from an opportunity to offer an amendment. Mr. ALLEN, of Crawford. Mr. President: I withdraw the demand for the previous question for the purpose of allowing the gentleman to offer his amendment. Mr. SNYDER. Mr. President: I desire to offer the following amendment. The Secretary read the amendment offered by Mr. Snyder, as follows: There shall also be elected in each county which has over thirty thousand inhabitants, a master in chancery, who shall hold his office for two years, and whose compensation shall be fixed by law. Mr. SNYDER. Mr. President: I have no desire to consume time in discussing the amendment. I represent here, in part, a large county, a majority of the people of which are in favor of this measure. The office is an important one, as the master in chancery is made the general commissioner to sell all the lands of intestate estates where partition cannot be made. This cfficer should be responsible to the people, and those whose land he handles and sells should have some voice in selecting him. The pay of the incumbent has become in our county a verv large amount. Probably it is more than that of county clerk amounting to several thousand dollars. I know of no reason why this should not be an elective office. It is said that a chancellor's relations are intimate with the judge. His relations are no more close with the judge than those of circuit court clerk. He is a judicial officer-not the "master" of the old English law. He is not that "master in chancery." I e is more like a "master of the rolls." He has a certain judicial power as to writs of ne exeat and injunctions, and has also thle power of issuing writs of habeas corpus. A considerable interest, for these reasons? attaches to the office in the minds of the people, and it should be made elective. Sir. WYENDLING. Mr. President. I concur with the gentleman in his advocacy of this amendment} and hope it will~ be adopted. I know no reason why it should not be adopted. The people of every portion of the State, as well as the people of St. Clair, have an interest inl the subject. I have given the subject some reflection, and I am unable to discover~ any DEBATES AND PROCEEDI114GS.' AP.RIL 283 1870. 1539 Ellis, Fox, Fuller, Gamble, Parks, Wells, Perley, Wendlin Peirce, Wheato.3. Goodell, Goodhue, Snyder, Sutherland, Wright-20. YEAS. Abbott, Forman, Scholfield, Allen, of Crw'dGamble, Sedgwick, Anderson, Hainer, of CookSharp, Anthony, Hankins, Tincher, Archer, Hart, Tubbs, Benjamin, Harwood, Vandeventer, Bowman, Hildrup, Wagner, Church, McCoy, Wall, Coolbaugh, Parker, Washburn, Craig, Parks, Wendling,Cuihmi Igs, Rice, Whiting-35. Dement, Ross, WAYS. Ilaines of LakeTurner, Hav. Underwood, Mr;lam, Wait, Moore, wells, Sherrill, Wilson, Bayne, Browning, Cross, Fox, Fuller, 1540 COXSTITUTIONAL COYETJON THURSDAY, Twenty or thirty years ago, the rule in Congress was, that the demand for the previous question should be seconded by thirteen members; afterwards it was changed to twenty members Our rules require the question to be put di rectly, "shall the main question be now . put?" and do not require the motion for the previous question to be seconded. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The present occupant of the chair had not no ticed how the President of the Conven tion had been in the habit of putting this question. The Chair is aware that the rule is in the regular form, and that it says nothing about seconding. But the form and manner of putting the question is given, to which form and manner the Chair has conformed; that form is, "s'hall the main question be now put?" When that is ordered, the main qu estion is to be put without debate. Generally, in deliberative bodies, the usage has been, that the demand for the previous question, on account of its cut ting off all debate, must be seconded by a majority, before-being ordered, and the Chair supposed that the Convention had conformed to that practice. But the Chair does not desire to alter the mode of doirg business, followed by the President, and acquiesced in by the Convention. There is nothing in the rule suggested by the gentleman from Crawford [Mr. Allen], that either affirms or disaffirms the rule requiring a majority to second the demand, and unless the Convention should otherwise determine, the Chair would be of opinion that, ac cording to the authorities from which we derive our modes of practice in the absence of rules, the previous question should be seconded by a majority. But the Chair will, of course, conform to the wishes of the majority of the Convention. Mr. ALLEN, of Crawford. Mr. President: Without any disrespect for the Chair, I ask to appeal from that decision of the Chair. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The gentleman asks for an appeal which the Chair will very cheerfully entertain. The question is, shall the decision of the Chair stand as the decision of the Convention? i Mr. COOLBAUGH. Mr. President: Upon that question I propose to say a few words. I was, with the gentleman from Crawford [Mr. Allen] and the gentleman from McHenry [Mr. Church], the honor able gentleman now in the cheir [Mr. BromweLl] and one or two others, on the committee appointed by the Convention to prepare rules for its government; and I recollect distinctly, as has been stated by the gentleman from Crawford [Mr. Allen], that these rules relating to the previous question —that is forty-five and forty-six-were discussed and adopted for the simple purpose of avoiding the old circumlocution of enforcing the previous question. It is, according to rule forty-five, entirely in order for any gentleman on this floor to demand the previous question whenever be pleases. "The previous question," rule fortyfive says, "shall be always in order, and shall be put in this form:'shall the main question be now pit tt?"' and, unless a majority vote affirm atively, it is not ordered, and there is anl end to it. If it is adopted, then a vote under the operation of the previous ques The previous question being moved and sec onded, the question from the Chair shall be, "Shall the main question be now put?" and if the nays prevail, the main question shall not then be put. Whether a main question ma y b e amended after the previous question on it has been moved and seconded, 2 Hats., 88, says: "If the previous question has been moved and seconded, and also proposed from the chair, (bv which he means stated by the speaker for debate,) it has been doubted whether an amendment can be admitted to the main question." The -whole question turns upon the seconding, the seconding being according to usage, the voice of the majority. Mr. COOLBAUGfLf Mr. President: Permit me to say a word here. I admit that the rule of Jefferson's Manual is as stated by the Chair. But rule thirty-nine says that The rules of parliamentary practice com prised in Jefferson's Manual shall govern the Convention, in all cases in which they are applicable, and not inconsistent with the standing rules and order of this Convention. Now, in the absence of a standing rule, of course the position of the Chair would . be correct, but I insist that we must be '5governed by our rules. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The question is, shall the opinion of the Chair be adopted as the judgment of the Conventi,)n? The decision of the Chair was not sustained. cause why the master i n c hancery should not be elected by the people. THE PREVIOUS QUESTION. Mr. WAGNER. Mr. President: I move the previous ques'ion. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The previous question is moved; is the motion seconded? Those in favor of seconding the motion will rise, and the Chair will count the Convention. Twenty in the affirmative and two in the negative There is not a quorum voting. The previous question is not ordered. Mr. BROWNING. Mr. President: The Chair has pursued a different course from what the Convention has hitherto followed. It has adopted the practice of the house of representatives of the United States-a custom which prevails nowhere elsei,as it does there. Any gentleman has a right to demand the previous question and the question upon that demand is, shall the main question be now put? Any member has the right to make the call and have a vote taken upon it. Mr. SEDGWICK. Mr. President: Such I understand to be the rule. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. Has any gentleman present a copy of Barclay's digest, containing Jefferson's Manual? Mr. BROWNING. Mr. President: Our rule reads to this effect: The previous question is always in order, and shall be put in this form, "shall the main question be now put?" The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. That is the way the Chair understands it. Mr. BROWNING. The Chair however declines ti put the question. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. That will depend entirely on the rule. And that depends on the "Manual," because the rules of this body are silent. Mr. ALLEN, of Crawford. Mr. President: I desire to say that when the Committee on Rules considered this subject, it was their wish toavoid the circumlocution of the "Manual," and to have a vote directly upon the question without requiring the Convention to divide twice, first upon the second, and then upon the question, whether the question should be put. The practice here, since our organization, has been that when a member has demanded the previous question, the President announced the previous question to be demanded and the question to be "shall the main question be now puts' Upon that a division has been had. If a majority voted that the main question should be put, the Convention proceeded to vote on the pending amendment, or on the main proposition. That has been the practice here, to save us from the inconvenience of the old rule. Were it otherwise, the. previous question being moved, the question would be, "shall the previous question be seconded?" Any member can demand the previous question. The question on sec-onding it was the old practice. To avoid that our rule was adopted, and the conlst ~nt practice in this Convention has been not to take the question on seconding it, but on the main questions Mr. TURNER. Mr. President: That fleas been the practice all the way through, in this Convention. A gentleman movesthe previous question,~ anld the first question put by the Chair has been, "4Shall the main question be now pat?"7 1540 CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION TIE[URSDAY, tion must be taken immediately on the question. There can be no doubt about that, according to our rules. There is certainly no doubt in my mind that such was the intention of the committee in flaming the rules, and there is certainly no doubt whatever that it has been the practice of the Convention since we adopted rules, to follow that course. With the greatest respect to the honorable gentleman in the chair, I am sure that if we stand upon the order contained in our rule, and wish to couform to the practice of the Convention since the adoption of the -rules, that the Chair is in error and must be overruled. ["QuestiOD," "QueStiOD."] The PRESIDENT, pro t,6mpore. The question is, shall the opinion of the Chair be adopted as the judgment of the Convention? Before that question is taken. the Chair begs leave to read from Jefferson's Manual in relation to this matter. The rules of the Manual are the rules of the Convention. COUNTIES. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The question is upon the amendment of the gentleman from St. Clair [.IL4r. Snyder]" upon which the gentleman from Carroll [Mr. Wagner] moves the previous question. Mr.. TURNER. I would ask the gentleman if he'Intends the previous question to al)ply simply to the amendments? Mr. WAGNER. No, sir; to the main proposition and the amendments. The motion for the previous question wa,,; figreed to, and the main question ordered. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The question is farst upon the amendment of the gentleman from St. Clair [Mr. SDYder]. A division was ordered.;o, AyI 28 8.DBTSADPO)EIG.14 the question. The question will, therefore, be upon the whole section. The question is upon the section as amended, on which the previous question has been ordered. The yeas and nays were ordered. The Secretary proceeded to call the roll. Mr. PARKS (when his name was called) said: Mr. President: I cannot vote to take away from the circuit judges The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The gentleman cannot explain without permissmon of the Convention. Mr. PARKS. Then I vote "No." The result was then announced-yeas 40 nays, 20-as follows: The Conve ntion divided, wh en, there beingthirty-nine in thirti e aff irmative a nd twelve in the negative, the amendment offered by Mr. Snyder was agreed to. The PRESIDENT, pro tempoie. The question now is upon the adoption of the section, as amended. Th e S ec r et ary r ead se ction five, as amended, as f ollows: SEc. 5. In each county there shall be elect ed the following county officers: County judge, sheriff, county clerk, clerk of the cir cuiot court (w ho may b e ex qulcio r ecorder of deeds, except in all counties having sixty thous and and more inhabitants, in which counties a recorder of deeds shall be elected, at the general election in 1872), treasurer, sur veyor and coroner, each of whom shall enter upon the duties of their office, respectively, on the first Monday of December after their election; and they shall hold their respective offices for the term of four years, except the offices of treasurer, sheriff and coroner, who shall hold their office for two years and until their successors shall be elected and qualified. There shall also be elected in each county which has over thirty thousand inhabitants, a master in chancery, who shall hold his office for two years, and whose compensation shall be fixed by law. Mr. BENJAMIN. Would it be in or der to move to strike out the words "thirty thousand?" The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. It would not be in order. We are acting under the operation of the previous ques tion at the present time. The question is upon the adoption of section five, as amended. The yeas and nays were ordered. Mr. BENJAMIN. Mr. President: I will ask for a division of the question. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. Will the gentleman state in what he wished the division to consist? Mr. BENJAMIN. Mr. President: I wish to have the clause about the master in chancery voted upon separately. It is an independent clauise. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The Chair was addressed before the calling of the roll commenced. Mr. WASHBURN. Mr. President: I rise to a point of order. The Chair .having announced the vote to be ordered on the section, the section is not divisi ble. It is too late for a division. It would be like throwing the Conven tion back on taking a separate vote on each separate clause that has been heretofore passed. fihe PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The Chair is of the opinion that as there are two. classes of counties named, the master in chancery being for an entire class of counties} the question is divisible. Therefore the vote will be taken upon the first part of the section, including the eighth linle. Mir. ROSS. I desire to call the attentionl of the Chair to the fact that the object is to strike out the provision for the election of master in chancery. That having been already adopted byr the Conyen, it cannot be stricken out. The Convention has passed upon it apnd made it a part of the section. The object sought cannot be attained by a division of the question. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The Chair is inclined to the opinion that the gentleman ifoml Fulton [Mr. Ross] is correct — that the amendment of the gentleman fromn St. Clair [Mr. Snyder] having been adopted, substantially as a part of the: section} by the Convention, it cannot afterwards be rejected by a division of. ' 388 The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The motion in that shape would not be in or der. Mr. B ENJAMIN. Mr. President: I would then. m ove to reconsider the vote by which the amendment of the gentle man from St. Clair [Mr. Snyder] was adopted. The Secretary r e ad the amendment of. fered by Mr. Snyder, a s follows: There shall also be elected in each county, which has over thirty thousand inhabitants, a master in chance ry, who s hall hold his office for two years, and whose compensation shall be fixed by law. Mr. ALLEN, o f Crawfo rd. Mr. Presi dent: I move to strike out thirty thou sand. Mr. HAINES, of Lake. Mr. President: I move to strike out the whole section, and lea ve the subject to the Legislature. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The motion is not now in order. Mr. TINCHER. Mr. President: I move a leave of absence be granted to the gentleman from Lake [Mr. flaines] for one week, on account of sickness. [Laughter]. Mr. HAINES, of Lake. Mr. President: I rise to a point of order. Is it a sign of sickness to question the action of this Convention? [Laughter]. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The question is upon the motion to reconsider the vote by which the Convention adop ted the amendmentof the gentleman from St. Clair [Mr. Snyder]. A division was ordered. The Convention divided, when, there being twenty seven in the affirmative and thirty-two in the negative, the motion was not agreed to. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The question is upon the adoption of the sec tion. Mr. WELLS. Alr. President: I call for the yeas and nays, on the question of re considering. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The yeas and nays are called for. The Chair, by announcing the vote upon the ques tion very rapidly, may have precluded the gentleman from making his motion at the proper time. The call for the yeas and nays will, therefore, be entertained. Mr. DEMENT. Mr. President: Did not the Chair recognize me, after the vote wvas announced? The PRESIDENT} pro tempore. The Chair had recognized no one. Mr. ROSS. Mr. President: Cannot the "thirty thousand" be stricken out without reconsidering? The PRESIDENT, pro temnpore. The Convention must proceed according to rule. The yeas and nays were ordered. Mr. ANTHONY. Mr. President: I would like to ask the gentlemanL from St. Clair [Mr. Snyder] if the design is to preclude the circuit courts of the State iSom appo:inlting masters in chanceery? Mr. SNYDER. Most undoubtedly. I want to take it out of the hands of one man, and give it to the people. Mr. ANTHONY. Then the gentleman * had better so frame it., because, in my county no1 one master in chancery can begin to do the business. We have already two or three. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. Debate is out of order., ABSENT OR NOT VOTING. Anthony, Hanna, Poage, Bromwell, Harwood, Rice, Brown, Hayes, Robinson, Bryan, King, Skinner, Buxton, McDowell, Truesdale, Cameron, Neece, Tubbs, English, Pillsbury, Wright Gamble, Mr.President-23. So section five, as amended, was agreed to. Mr. SCHOLFIELD. Mr. President: I move to amend section six, by adding be fore the first line the words "the General Assembly may provide by law that —" Mr. BENJAMIN. If the gentleman from Clark [Mr. Scholfield] will allow me, before we pass to the next section, I would move a reconsideration of section five. We have adopted a provision with re gard to masters in chancery, making a distinction between the counties of 30, 000 and counties of a less population. I am opposed to the election of masters in chancery, preferring that they should be appointed by the judge, but if their election is a good thing, as the majority of this Convention seem to think, every county in the State should have the benefit of it, and this provision with regard to 30,000 should be stricken out. Mr. WENDLING. Mr. President: I move to lay the motion to reconsider upon the table. The motion of Mr. Wendling to lay upon the table the motion of Mr. Benjamin to reconsider the vote by which section five was adopted, was not agreed to. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The question is upon the motion of the gentleman from McLean [Mr. Benjamin] to reconsider the action of the Convention, by which section five was adopted. The motion was agreed to. Mr. BENJAMIN. Mr. President: I move to strike out the clause relating to Dirty thousand. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. APRIL 28, 1870. 1541 YES. Abbott, Cross, Allen of Alex.,Cummings, Allen of Crlfd.,Eldredge, Anderson, Ellis, ArcherI Forman, Atkins, Fox, Bay-ne, Hankins, Benjamin, Hart, Bowman, McCoy, Cary, Medill, Church, Merriam, Cody, Parker, Coolbaugh, Ross, Craig, Scholfield, Sedgwick, Sharp, Sherrill, I Snyder, Turner, Vandeventer, Wa.zner, Wafl, Washburn, Wendling, Whit!nZ, Wilson-40. WAYS. Browning, I-Iay Dement, Fuller, Goodell, Goodhue, er ey, Haines of Clk, Peirce, Haines of Llk,' Springer, Sutherland, Tincher, Underwood, Wait, Well,-, Wheaton-20. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION Mr. ATKINS. Mr. President: I would like to have the amendment read. The Secretary read the amendment offered by Mr. Snyder, as am en ded, as follows; There shall also be elected in each county one or more masters in chancery, who shall hold his or their office for two years, and whose compensation shall be fixed by law: Provided, That the masters in chancery in office at the adoption of this Constitution shall hold until the expiration of the terms for which they were respectively appointed. Mr. CUMMINGS. Mr. President i move the previous question on the adoption of the amendment and the section. The motion for the previous question was agreed to, and the main question ordered. Mr. BROWNING. Mr. President: I think I will take the yeas and nays on the amendment, if I can get a second. The yeas and nays were ordered, and being taken, resulted-yeas 33; nays 26 -as follows: YAEAS. Abbott, Forman, Allen of Alx'n,Fox, Allen of Cwfd,Fuller, Anderson, Gamble, Archer, Goodell, Bayne, Hankins, Benjamin, Hart, Bowman, Hildrup, Cary, McCoy, Coolbaugh, Merriam, Craig, Parker, Cross, Perley, Cummings, Ross, Eldredge, Scholfield,. Ellis, NAYS. tins, Harwood, Springer, wning, Hay, Sutherland, .ent, Moore, Tincher, )dhue, Parks, Underwood, ines ofCook,Peirce, Wells-16. ines of Lake, ABSENT, OR NOT VOTING. thony, English, Poage, ~mwell, Hanna, Rice, wn, Hayes, Robinson. Fan, King, Skinner. ~ton, McDowell, Truesdale, heron, Medill, Wait, arch, Neece, Wheaton, ly, Pillsbury, Mr. President-24. 3o section five, as amended, was agreed CNAYS. Eldredge, Parker, Ellis, Perley, Fox, Sherrill, Gamble, Vandeventer, Haines of LakeWall, McCoy, Washburn-18. ABSENT, OR NOT VOTING. Bromwell, Hayes, Skinner, Brown, King, Tincher, Bryan, McDowell, Truesdale, Buxton, Neece, Tubbs, Cameron, Pillsbury, Underwood, English, Poage, Whiting, Hanna, Rice, Wilson, Harwood, Robinson, Mr. President-24. So the motion of Mr. Benjamin to reconsider the vote adopting the amendment offered by Mr. Snyder was agreed Mr. ANTHONY. Mr. President: I wish to move a reconsideration, and let the section lie over for a time. Mr. ALLEN, of Crawford. Mr. President: I move to lay that motion on the table. I wish to get through with this some time. The PRESIDENT. The question is on section six. The Secretary read section six, as follows: SEC. 6. The county board shall fix the compensation of all county officers, with the amount of their necessary clerk hire, stationery, fuel and other expenses, and in all case.% where fees are provided for, the said compensation shall be paid only out of, and shall in no instance cxeeed the fees actually collected; they shall not allow either of them more per annum than fifteen hundred dollars, in counties not exceeding twenty thousand inhabitants; two thousand dollars in counties containing twenty and not exceeding thirty thousand inhabitants; twenty-five hun.dred dollars in counties containing thirty and not exceeding fifty thousand inhabitants; three thousand dollars in counties containing fifty and not exceeding seventy thousand inhabitants; thirty-five hundred dollars in counties containing seventy and not exceeding one hundred thousand inhabitants; and four thousand dollars in counties containing over one hundred thousand inhabitants and not exceeding two hundred and fifty thousand inhabitants, and not more than one thousand dollars additional salary for each additional one hundred thousand inhabitants: Provided, That the compensation of no officer shall be increased or diminished during his term of office. All fees or allowances by them received, in excess of their said compensation, shall be paid into the county treasury. Mr. SCHOLFIELD. Mr. President: I move to amend by prefixing to the first line the words-" The General Assembly may provide by law that." I am not satisfied that the section in its present form is desired by the people whom I represent. It contains an entirely new feature in regard to the payment of fees, one which, as yet, is untried, and the practical operations of which can only be conjectured. The fees of officers in my district were reduced by the last Legislature to the amounts fixed by law before the days of greenbacks. They are as low as, if Lot lower, than they should be. I have YEAS. Abbott, Eldredge, Parker, Allen of Crwfd,Elis, Ross, Anders on, Forman, Scholfield, Archer, Fox, Sedgwick, Bowman, Gamble, Sharp, Cary, Goodell, Sherrill, Cody, Haines of L'ke, Snyder, Coolbaugh, Hankins, Underwood, Cross, Hart, WenTling, Cummings, Hildrup, WhitingDement, McCoy, Wright-33. NAYS. Allen of Alex.,Haines ofCook,Tinchers Anthony, Hay, Turner, Atkins, Medill, Vandeventer, Bayne, Merriam, Wagner, Benjamin, Moore, Wait, Browning, Parks, Wall, Craig, Perley, Wells, Fuller, Springer, Wheaton-26. Goodhue, Sutherland, to. The question then being on the amendment offered by Mr. Snyder Mr. SEDGWICK. Mr. President: I move to strike out the words "which have over 30,000 inhabitants." Mr. SNYDER. I accept the amendment. It will then read: There shall also be elected in each county a master in chancery, who shall hold his office for two years, and whose compensation shall be fixed by law. Mr. CRAIG. Mr. Piesident: I move to strike out the words',by law," and insert "by the county board." Mr. RAINES, of Lake. Mr. President: I move to insert before the word master," instead of the word'la," the words "one or more." Mr. SNYDER. V ery well; that will make it apply to Cook county. I accept that amendment. Mr. CARY. Mr. President: I would suggest to the gentleman from St. Clair [Mr. Snyder] whether it would not be better to make it four years, instead of two. Mr. SNYDER. I made it two years for the reason that that is the present provision. I did not wish to change it in any particular except to take it out of the hands of one man and put into the hands of the people. Mr. ALLEN, of Crawford. Mr. President: I would inquire if it is the purpose of the gentleman from Knox [Mr Craig] to allow the county board to fix the compensation of the master in chancery? My judgment is that most county boards would be utterly incompetent for that task. I move, therefore, to lay the amendment on the table. The motion was agreed to. * Mr. WALL. Mr. President: I desire to amend the amendment by adding a proviso that masters in chancery now in office shall hold their offices until the end of the terms for which they were appointed. Mr. SNYDER. I accept that. So the amendment offered by Mr. Snyder was agreed to. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The question recurs on the adoption of section five, as amended. The Secretary read section five, as amended, as follows: SEC. 5. In each county there shall be elected the following county officers: County judge, sheriff, county clerk, clerk of the circuit court, (who may be ex offcio recorder of deeds, except in all counties having sixty thousand and more inhabitants, in which counties a recorder of deeds shall be elected, at the general election in 1872), treasurer, surveyor and coroner, each of whom shall enter upon the duties of their office, respectively, on the first Monday of December after theirs election; and they shall hold their respective offices for the term of four years, except the office of treasurer, sheriff and coroner, who shall hold their offices for two years,and un til their successors shall be elected and qualified. There shall also be elected in each county, one or more masters in chancery, who shall hold his or their office for two years, and whose compensation shall be fixed by law: Provided, that the masters in chancery in ofi flee at the adoption of this Constitution, shall hold until the expiration of the terms for which they were respectively appointed. Thie yeas and nays were ordered, and, :beiig taken, resulted-yeas, 43; nays, 16-as follows: 542 THURSDAY, The Secretary cztlled the roll. The result was then announced-yeas, 41, nays, 18-as follows: Sedgwick, Sharp, Sherrill, Snyder, enter, Wagner, Wall, Washburn, Wendling, Whitinz. Wilson, Wright!-43. YEAS. Abbott' Fuller, Scholfield, Allen, of Crlfd,Goodell, Sedgwick, Anderson, Goodhue, Sharp, Anthony, Haines of CookSnyder, Archer, Hankins, Springer, BeDjamin, Hart, Sutherland, Bowmn, Hay, Turner, BrowniDg, Hildrup, Wagner, Cary, Medill, Wait, Church, Merriam, Wells, Cody, Moore, Wendling, Craiz. Parks, Wheaton, Dent, Peirce, Wright-41. Forman, Ross, Allen of Alex, Atkins, Bayne, Coolbaugh, Cross, Cummings, to. ABSENT, OR NOT VOTING. Bromwell,. Brown, Bryan, Buxton, Cameron, Church, English, Hanna, Harwood, Hayes, King,' McDowell, Neece, Peirce, Pillsbury, Poage, Rice, Robinson, SkinDer, Truesdale, Tubbs, Washburn, Wilscn, Mr. President-24. APRIL 28, 1870. DEBATES A~ND PROCEEDINGS. 1543 really the proper authority to do such business. Now, sir, I hold that by carrying out the views set forth in this section, it will be acceptable as a full realization of what the people demand, so far as their local business is concerned. I hold that the board of supervisors, as a body, in the different counties in the State is composed of men who are generally heavy taxct)avers - men who are competent to judge what a day's work is worth, what is a fair compensation for services rendered They are those who immediately feel the weight of taxation. They are men who are capable, and I believe as a general rule, do give a fair compensation for services rendered. I hold that this section will be popular with the counties at large, with every class of men, with the great bulk of the inhabitants of this State, all those who have to bear to a very great extent the burdens of taxation. I hope gentlemen will consider this matter thoroughly and maturely. Our counties demand the right to regulate their own local matters. I know they are capable of doing such business as this section provides for. The Convention has refused to extend the jurisdiction of iustices of the peace, which we demanded, and now proposes to cut us off in the matter of regulating our local business. I hope an amendment of the character proposed will inot prevail. There are a number of supervisors in this body, and they will all say that thissection, as it stands, will be a po)pular section with their people. I hope it will be adopted as reported. Mr. ALLEN, of Crawford. Mr. President: I am opposed to this whole sthrCtion. I am opposed to this plan of fixing the salaries of county officers. I ask the attention of the Convention while I present two or three leading reasons why I am opposed to it. It places in the hands of the board of supervisors of a county a power which, so far as I am concerned, I do not propose to confer. The gentleman from LaSalle [Mr. Hart] says they are men of property usually. Then the more the danger to the people. If that be so, in the exercise of their power, they will have the power of appropriating so much of these fees to the officers discharging the duties, as they please, and to place the balance in the county treasury. Under that system, it will not be long before we find our board hf supervisors trying to carry on the af fairs of our counties, not by taxing the pe ople at large, but by the fees received fiom the poor, the miserable unfortunates, who getinto litigation, and the widows and orphans who have estates to settle. They have the regulation of the fees and the regulating of the salaries make them exorbitant, and put them into the county treasury to relieve the property-holders. Mr. WHITING. Mr. President: I wish to ask a question. t Mr. ALLEN, of Crawiord. Mr. President: I do not like to yield-c Mr. WHITING. Mr. President: I just wish to make a suggestion, if the gentleman will allow me. I believe the General Assembly fix the fees, and not the board. Mr. ALLEN, of Crawford. Mr. President: Then the board fix the salary. They will cut down the salary of an offi heard n o com pla int there, recently, either of their officers, or their compensation. I do not recognize, as generally correct, the principle that the county treasury ought to be filled by any other mode than by taxation on the property holders of the county.' Iam not satisfied, sir, that the other features of this section are such as would commend them to the judgment of the people of my district. I am willing, however, that the experiment should be tried, and, therefore, am willing that the power shall be vested in the General Assembly, so that if it should be found to be unwise or improper in its practical operations, another mode of compensation can be resorted to. Mr. HAINES, of Lake. I would like to ask the gentleman a question. Whether the General Assembly would not have that power-whether he claims to give power to the General Assembly? Mr. SCHOLFIELD. If the gentleman from Lake [Mr. Haines] desires to put me on the stand to testify, I will answer. I understand that unless the Legisla ture is prohibited by the Constitution, they can provide such compensation for officers as they think proper. I move this amendment to the section, so that the section will stand in the Constitution as a suggestion to the Legislature. Mr. HAINES, of Lake. The suggestion, if made, should be made at the close of the section. It is a repeal of the whole section. The gentleman might as well add at the end of the section, "This section shall continue in force until changed by the General Assembly." If he would change his amendment to meet the case, I would vote for it. Mr. HART. I concur fully in the opin, ions expressed by the gentleman from Lake [Mr. Haines]. If the clause were to be placed at the end of the section, I would notobject. This is a very essential section, one that is exceedingly popular in our section of the State. In this article there are several sections that will be very unpalatable to our people up north, but this I regard as one that has some redeeming quality in it that may enable us to swallow the whole article. We hold ii< the country fromn which I come, that we are perfectly competent to do our own local business. lNIw, I would like to know if wve have not in each of the several counties representatives to d-o our local business, men competent to do this business for us? The members of the board of supervisors of the different counties are elected immediately from the people, from the different towns of which the counties are composed. Each of these supervisors is known to every elector that votes for him, and is returned to the people every year, either to be elected, or superseded by some one who will carry out the views of the elevators. I would like to know how much nearer we can come down to true republicanism, or democratic principles, than to have the sneervisors elected from every town of a county, do all the business pertaining to the county proper? They have the assessment of taxation necessary to carry on the current expenses of their respective counties. They are cer and put it int o the county treasury. That is the thing I complain of. The better plan is to let the Legislature fix the fees, (and they will fix them at a reasonable;:rate), and let the officer de. pend upon his collection of them for his pay. No doubt it would be a gratifying thing to the board to give them power over the county officers, but it would result in cliques and plots and rings about the county board as it has about the State Legislature. Why, sir, what would be the result? First fix the officer's salary, then fix the amount of clerk hire, and see" the officers going about log-rolling for special favor. We will see one officer going to a supervisor and proposing one thing as a consideration for an additional clerk, and will find another officer at the ear of another member of the board proposing another thing. Parties in litigation will not be relieved from their expense, but through these rings corruption will spread through county boards, and the county treasury be swelled through the misfortunes of parties litigant. The whole system is practically wrong and will work injury, corruption, discord and trouble throughout the county from its inception until its repeal ]Sy the adoption of some other provision. Sir, if the fees are too high, let the Legislature be instructed to lower them to a standard where they are moderate, and where they will affo.rd only a reasonable com-pensation. Let the Legislature fix them, and let the officers have a motive to collect them.'~ I ask, again, that these boards shall not have the power to swell the revenues of the county by lowering the salaries of the officers for the purpose of relieving property holders from taxes. Again, sir, under the operation of this provision, there will be difficulty so far as the officers under the law are concerned. The board of county commissioners will attack a circuit clerk and cut down his pay-the county clerk and cut down his pay. This the board can do before their clerk or sheriff enter on the discharge of his duties. Not only this, sir; but the clerks of one county will be compelled to perform twice as much labor for the same compensation as the clerks of another county. It will work unequally. Take my own county, where we have -little litigation, and the cases on the Oocket do not average one hundred per term and two terms a year. We have a population of 12,000 or 15,000. Take the adjoining county, Jasper, where the docket averages two hundred per term. Go a little west to F,ffingham, with a population not exceeding ours, which has three hundred cases on the docket on the average each term. Yet, by this provision, these officers are compelled to discharge the duties of the'respective offices at a sum not to exceed $1,500 a year. Take thir.t as a maximlum, and allow them the full amount authorized by law. Then under the operation ofs this provision, the clelrk in Effliinghaml, and the sheriff there, will be compelled to discharge three times the duty that the clerks and sherifs of Crawford will have to perform. Yet, they are to be here limnited to $1,500. There will be no regularity, no equality in the working of the plan, and I can see no reason for its adoption. Do gentlemen tell me the Legislature will fig the APRIL 28) 1870. DEBATES ILND PROCEEDINGS. 1543 1544 ~1OSTITUTIONAL OOYETIO THURSDAY, taxation, and take it'out of the pockets of the poor and the unfortunate. Why, sir, who pays the recorder of deeds? It is the men who employ him. It is not the county. There is no taxationl for that purpose. Who pays the sheriff and the clerk of the circuit court? It, is the unfortunate class of men who are sued in those courts. His pay is not taken from the pockets of the people by taxa tion. Who pay the county clerks? The widows and orphans! There is no taxa tion for that purpose. Now, the General Assembly should so provide that none of these officers should be extravagantly paid. There must be officers, in order to have the rights of the people properly secured and sustained, and they should merely be paid justly and properly for their services, as is con temnplated by the eighth section. But, sir, shall we adopt a clause in this Constitution whereby the widows and the orphans, the unfortunate man who is sued in court, shall, in addition to their other misfortunes, add to the revenues of the county out of their hard earnings, and thereby save the property-owner from taxation? For, Mr. President, every dol lar that the widow and orphan pays in to the county treasury, in the way of fees, is a dollar saved in the pockets of the propertyownrer. Every dollar that a suitor pays into the county treasury, is a dollar saved to the rich man and wrung out of the poor. Are we prepared to put such a measure into the Constitution? Again, sir, there is another argument that I would call the attention of this uConvention to. We require efficiency ii all our officers. Think you that the sheriff, who has his salary fixed by law, will be efficient in attending to his duties? Will he go out in the cold and the snow and the wind to serve process, when his salary is fixed, and he has no interest in the fees that are taxed? No, sir. He requires the stimulus of fees, so that if he does not perform the duties he will not receive the fees. So with other officers. I maintain that a more unjust, unrighteous and unholy clause could not well be inserted in the Constitution. I admit that our supervisors are generally our best men. It is no indignity to the supervisors to take from them the burden of fixing these salaries. But while we concede that they are good men they are nevertheless, generally men of property, large tax-payers, and every dollar they can put into the county treasury by these means, will save a dollar to their pockets. Now, I am not ini the habit of predictitg what this thing or that thing will do before the people. No gentleman on this floor has heard me intimate my opinion in regard to the adoption of this measure or that measure, upon the chances of our Constitution before the people; but I sincerely believe if this section goes into this Constitution, it will be a most powerful weight in dragging it down, and that the poorer classes of people will not be in favor of supporting it. Again, sir, what will be the effect? We have attempted to reduce everything as near uniformity as possible. We have provided that all fees shall be uniform, whenever uniformity can be obtained. We have provided that in several sections. In our county we may have a liberal or an illiberal board of supervisors. 1544 CONSTITU'TIONAL CONVE-NTION T.HURSDAY, fees too high? What more security have we that the members of the Legislat,,-,re will not act fairly and honestly by the people of the county they represent, than we have that our board of supervisors will act fairly by those who elect them? None in the world. Both are responsible to the same constituency. I admit that both are equally intelligent on the subject, but that is no reason why the board should control this power rather than the Legislature. These boards are no more fit to judge of the value of the ser. -vices than the members of the Legislature. Hence, there is no reason on that ground for clothing them with this additional power. But there is the reason why they ought not to be clothed with it-that they may so mauace these salaries as to swell the ftmount in their treasuries to relieve themselves from taxation. This, too, is an experiment. If this Constitution is adopted we expect it to remain the fundamental law of the land for years to come. Why not leave this to the Legislature, so that where we'do not come up to what the people want they can remedy it. We here propose an inflexible rule in this Constitution, which must operate as long as the Constitution lasts, when the rule must be admitted to be a mere experiment. I have alluded to two or three of the most prominent reasons why I cannot give this my support. I shall not detain the Convention by further remarks upon the question. I was not here when it was discussed in the Committee of the Whole, or I should not have offered any remarks upon it at this time. Mr. TURNER. 31r. President: When this section was before the Convention for the concurrence or rej ectioii of amendments made in Committee of the Whole, I moved to strike the section out. I was not then in order, but I gave notice that I should move again to strike it oiit when the proper time came. That time has come, and I now make that motion. Section eight provides that: The General Assembly shall, bv zeneral lany, uniform in its operation, proviae-for and regulate the fees of the successors to said officers, so as to reduce the same to a reasonable compensation for services actually rendered. That is, the General Assembly shall reo,ulate and reduce the fees of all offi The fees in our county will be the same that they are in the adjoining counties and all over the State. Our board of su pervisors, to-day, may fix the salaries so low that competent men will not take the office; to morrow, another board of su pervisors may raise the salary so that it will consume all the fees tha, are paid. Our county may give her sheriff one thoa sand five hundred dollars a year. Win. nebago county may give him less. I ask, sir, if it is good policy thus to incorporate into this Constitution an experiment that is liable to so much abuse, and which, to my mind, will not add anything either to the economy or efficiencv of those who are employed or elected to public posi. tions. I therefore hope that this section will be stricken out. Mr. CUMMINGS. Mr. President: Notwithstanding the impression of the gentleman from Stephenson [Mr. Turner] that this section, if retained in the Con stitution, will defeat the Constitu'tioD, I.am for it. I am for it because it takes a po sition in favor of the people against the office holder. When the argument is made that pay ing- the fees to the office holder, to be by that officer paid into the county treasury, works an injustice, it is an argument that I fail to s'ee the force of, when it is sifted, and I think any gentleman upon this floor will fail to see the force of it. Is it any greater hardship to pay fees into the county treasury than to have them squandered by the officei? Does that mere fact make it a hardship and an oppression? The argument is adduced by the gentleman also, that the'fees will be changeable, and that they will be fixed very high one day and very low the next. The section under consideration simply says that 'It.',ie compensation of no officer shall be increased or diminished during his term of office." The section itself then answers that part of the argument, and answers it very emphatically, in stronger .words than I could possibly use. Another point is, that the section is against'the poor man and ia favor of therich. Now, is that a fair argument to; adduce from it? The more fees that a-re paid make the expenses just so much more on every person, whether he be rich or oor. Ever one who has to a APML 28, 1570 DEBATES AD PBOCEEDJNGS. 1545 says: "The Legislature shall control and change all fees." This section does not pretend to give the board of supervisors power in relation to regulating fees It gives them power to say that the county officer shall not have any more than his talents or abilities are worth, or whatever his labor is worth. The people demand this at our hands, and if we perform our duties here, we will say to the people of the State-"We have indorsed section six of the county article. From this time henceforth shall it be known in the State of Illinois, that no one man in a county, through trickery and chicanery shall ride into office that will give him from $10, 000 to $50,000." r the The gentleman from Stephenson [Mr. rturner] addresses himself to the case of the widow and orphan, and says it is an outrage upon them. Let me ask him this question-if this plan was carried out, how could it affect the widow and or phan? How do they pay fees? Only in the same way that others do-those pay who have business done, and none oth ers, unless they have property, and if they have, they should help pay the taxes, if they do not go to law. [Here the hammer fell.] Mr. HAINES, of Lake. Mr. President: As one of the Committee on Counties, I would like to present what I deem to be the views of tha committee in reporting thissection. The section reads as fol lows: SEC. 6. The county board shall fix the compensation of all county officers; with the amount of their necessary clerk hire, stationery, fuel, and in al cases where fees are pro vided for, the said compensation shall be paid only out of, and shall in no instance ex ceed the fees actually collected; they shall not allow either of them more per annum than fifteen hundred dollars, in counties not exceeding twenty thousand inhabitants; two thousand dollars in counties containing twenty and not exceeding thirty thousand inhabitants; twenty-five hundred dollars in counties containing thirty and not exceeding fifty thousand inhabitants; three thousand dollars in counties containing fifty and not exceeding seventy thousand inhabitants; thirty-five hundred dollars in counties containing seventv and not exceeding one hundred thousand inhabitants; and four thousand dollars in counties containing over one hundred thousand and not exceeding two hundred and fifty thousand inhabitants, and not more than one thousand dollars additional salary for each additional one hundred thousand inhabitants: Provided, That the compensation of no officer shall be increased or diminished during his term of office. All fees or allowances by them received, in excess of their said compensation, shall be paid into the county treasury. It is said by lawyers that in providing every remedial statute the question first is as to the mischief complained of, and then as to the remedy which is sought to be applied. From one end of the State to the other, the people have complained of excessive taxation for the purpose of supporting an army of public officers. This Convention has been called together more perhaps out of that feeling upon the part of the people, than any other, and it will not discharge the duty it owes the people of the State, unless some remedy is prescribed for this excessive taxation upon their resources. I would add, at the end of the section, this amendment: This section shall continue in force until changed by law. The legislative article is so framed that the General Assembly may be trusted by general statute to regulate the subject. people. Th at is especially in acc or d ance with the doctrine of the gentleman from Crawford [Mr. Allen], that every people have the inherent God-given right to manage their own affairs in accordance with their own preconceived notions! I hold, then, the people of any county should have the right to say what amount they will pay their county officers. The best way for them to say it is through their boards of supervisors, because they are elected frorn each township in the county, know the will of the people, the wishes of the people, the interests of the people, and have the interests of the county placed in their hands. Is it working a greater wrong on the people of the State of Illinois, to place in the hands of the board of supervisors the pay of four or five office-holders, than the power of assessing and levying taxes, of taking care of the poor, of building jails, court-houses, bridges, carrying on all the affairs of the county? Oh I but when we come to a few officers, we must not touch them, for they are the life-blood of the people. Here is where all the oppression comes in. Why is it? Because it is feared that the board will cut down the enormous fees that have been by the Legislature placed upon the people to pay these officers through the inifluence of a lobby. I say, that in my opinion, if we place this section in the Constitution, it will not only not tend to defeat the Constitution, but will tend to carry it with the people-will give it strength. I know the cry is throughout the length and breadth of this State, that the fees are enormous. The people ask to be relieved fr,)m them. They ask them to be cut down, and if this Constitutional Convention obeys the will of the people, they will strike from the statute-book every law thereon, increasing fees. Gentlemen talk about equality under the present system! The argument is that the board of supervisors will so arrange the salaries in the various counties that they will not be equal. I want to ask these gentlemen if they are equal at present? We have $80,000 in one county and $7,000 in another. Do gen.tlemen call that equality? $80,000 in Cook county and $1,200 in another; $80,000 in Cook county and $3,000 in another; $5,000 in one and $1,500 inl another! Yet wve are told that these boards of sur pervisors will make fees unequal, will change the harmonious arrangement of the system now in operation, as created by the Legislature and standing upon your statute books to-day! When gentlemen talk about equality, they should show us that fees are equal now, and then they will have some foundation for an argument. When wve say that we will place this matter in the hands of the supervisors, we place it in the hands of the people. We place the power there, because it will make fees equal, because the section says they shall not go beyond a certain amount. The section protects the people in their rights, and from the Legislature. Tihe gentleman from Crawford [Hr. Allen] argued in reference to the power of the board of supervisors to regulate fees. There is not one word of it in the section —not an inference. All they do in the world in this case is just this, and nothing more —just to say how much the officers shall have, for the same section~ The Legislature heretofore has gone astray, and passed such laws upon this subject that there is no uniformity in the compensation of county officers in the several counties of the State. For in. stance, in the county of Cook the cointin uance fee in a suit in a court of record is fifty cents, and a term commences every mouth. Now the question is, how uas this op pression crept in? Simply because, as suggested by the gentleman from Fulton [Mr. Cummings], of the influence of these office-holders, into whose pockets these fees go directly. They have induc ed the General Assembly to enact these laws for their benefit. The complaint is that the adoption of this provision will work oppression to the poor. How? The mischief com plained of now is that the poor are op pressed to support the officers. The op position say if we adopt this provision providing that these fees shall be paid into the county treasury, we shall oppress the poor. The fees are now extorted to support individuals, while if this is adopted, the fees will be paid into the treasury. The section allows $1,500 compensa tion to an officer in a county having a population of 20,000. How is that a hardship to the poor? But gentlemen say the compensation of these officers will be unjustly reduced. Not during the term of the incumbent. The fees will be fixed before election. But the argument is not good, because this is a principle existing now with re gard to school commissioners, who now de pend on the county board for their com pensation. Who ever heard of a school commissioner complaining that his pay was not high enough? Nobody. Mr. FOX. Mr. President: I would like to ask a question. Does no'; the Legislature fix the compensation of school superintendents? Mr. HAINES, of Lake. Mr. President: The county board fixes the compensation, or in other words, allows his account for pay. That is the law. Whoever heard of their complaining? Nobody; but at o e session of the General Assembly, not long since, they applied and had their term extended two years. There is no complaint-no remonstrance against the action of this Conlvention on1 this subject —but on the contrary, the people everywhere ask that we shall relieve them fr'om this excessive oppression. If these excessive fees are to be paid they should be paid into the county treasury. But the gentleman from Stephenson [Mr. Turner] says the widow and the orphan will be oppressed. There is no argument in this. Who created the fees by which the widows and the orphans pay high rates for the administration of justice? The General Assembly, at the solicitation of the county clerk and couth ty judge. Had this system now proposed been adopted ken years ago, the widowr and the orphan would have had administration upon their affairs without fees, as they ought now. Whenever this principle is adopted, that law giving a county clerk or judge these fees, and robbing the widows and orphans, will bve repealed. Are gentlemen going to stand in the way of these reforms 9 They will stand there at their peril. The people are on the other side of the question. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1515 APRIL 28, 1870.. 387 156CXTTTIaLCNVNTO HRDY of the power of fixing the fees for the various county officers of the State, and the power of providing that the incum bents of these offices shall not receive in excess of $1,000 or $1,500, or whatever the board of supervisors shall adjudge that they are entitled to, and that all be yond that sum shall go into the county treasury. In this the two sections do not conflict, but each is necessary and should be adopted. But gentlemen claim that the money may be kept in the treasury, as a fund with which to enrich the county and to relieve the rich from taxation. I claim, sir, that that difficulty can be very easily obviated. I propose the following a mendment: Insert in the sixteenth line, after the word "compensation," the words "if any," and after the word "treasury" in the sixteenth line, amend so as to make it read as follows: "Shall be paid into the county treasury, and shall be disbursed in the payment of such services, and to no other purpose." I believe that with that addition, the section will be perfect, and meet every objection that has been urged against it. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The amendment is not in order at present, ast there is an amendment pending. Mil. VANDEVENTER. Mr. Presi dent: I move the previous question upon the whole proposition. Mr. RICE. Mr President: I hope the gentleman will withdraw his motion for a few moments. I have a few remarks which I wish to submit upon this subject, and I have not occupied the attention of the Convention a single moment for sev eral days. Mr. BAYNE. Mr. President: I would like to say a few words myself. The yeas and nays were ordered, and being taken, resulted-yeas, 29; nays, 34 -as follows: But the gentleman from Crawford [Mr. Allen] speaks for'the poor." I have n on e of t hat cla ss of people among my constituents, and I canno t speak for them, perhaps, so adv isedly. Who are the poor? Not the man w ho has his s trength to work, and his bra in t o direct his work. He is r ich (and not poor), with everything tha t Provide nce can give him. There are n one wh er e I live w ho will readily take that name. Every man is rich in the endowme nts of the God of nature. He has the ri ght t o work and live, and he asks of this Convention that the rules of his action s hall b e so fixed, that he Cal exercise his muscle and talent, that this Co nven tion shall no longer contin u e this code of oppressive laws, and crush out his energy and industry, that all may be given t o thes e leeches called public officers, which the Legislature have so long foustered and which are eat in,g out the subst ance of the people. Mr. MacCOY. M1r. President: It would seem f rom the range of th is argument that something s erious and alarming is at stake. I confess I can hardly add anything to the argu men th of the gentleman from LaSalle [eir. Hart]. H is argu ment cove red the ground tha t every gentlemen must accede, was a proper and conclusive argument in the premises. This question relates to the compensation to be rendered county officers.,. Is there any authority in Illinois better able to judge of the value of their services than the people of the county? I believe the boards of supervisors are constituted of the most honorable men in the State. As a body, I believe they possess an amliount of honesty, and intellect, equal to any other class of persons in the State, and when we consider they come from every six miles in the country, and have a perfect knowledge of what should be the value of a particular service, we must admit that the whole matter is more nearly within the compass of their judgment than it possibly can be in that of men who come from the several counties of the State to the Legislature. But this question is not confined entirely to the section under consideration. Gentlemen seem to think that in this section the entire subject is embodied. It is not. What is the case brought to the consideration of this Convention by force of this section? It is simply that upon the basis of a certain population in any given county, the people shall allow a certain sum of money to the county officers, not in excess of one thousand five hundred dollars. N~ow, if the board of supervisors should judge that the incumbenlt of any office in that county is not worth more than one thousand dollars, when it is provided that be may re ceive one thousand five hundred dollars, they are the proper authorities to determine} are perfectly competent to do so, and have the right to reduce the amount. That is all th.t this section purports to de. But it will be remembered that ill section eight} the Legislature is given this very authority that gentlemen claim they should be possessed of. That section provides that at a certain time there shall be a rest in the amount of fees, that at a certain period after the adoption of this Constitution, all fees on the present scale shall cease, and that the Legislature shall make up a different scale. Now, sir, they will be possessed Suther land, Tincher, Tubbs, Underwood, Vandeventer, Wagner, Wall, Wells, Wheaton-29. the gentleman from Crawford [Mr. Allen] spoken as they have. I hold if the Constitution which we are now framing has any redeeming trait in it at all, it is the very section that is now under consideration. Almost every effort that w e have made, in order to relieve th e peo ple of the burden s that are upon them, has been voted down; but I had flattered myself, sir, all the time during this discussion, that we would have the section, now under consideration, to fall back upon, as it would render some relief to the people of the country. I supposed that it would go through without ally further discussion whatever. But we find that it is assailed b)y two of the most prominent men upon the democratic side of the chamber. I am sorry that these men wi' l go back upou the democratic doctrine of the right of the people to manage their own institutions, in their own wav. I am astonished at my friend from Stephenson [Mr. Turner]. It appears, sir, that he has become the champion of these meli who have been extorting extravagant fees from the people, and putting them into their own pockets. Every time that one of those men is assailed, his bowels of compassion are immediately moved in behalf of the widows and orphans of the country. It is singular that he of all others should be so called upon to stand up for the widow and orphan, and that his attention is first attracted to the widows of the country, for I suppose that there are men upon this floor who have just as tender a feeling for the poor of the country as he has. How does he make it appear that they are so injured when we attempt to cut down the salaries of these men? Have we not already determined that fees shall be reduced by the General Assembly? It is not left to the officers of the county to do it at all. The supervisors will fix their salaries, and will have some compassion upon these widows. The Legislature has run the State for the last fifty years, and has had a fair chance to do something for the widows of the country. The gentleman ought to have brought up their case when he was in the Legislature, and Speaker of the house-so that these widows could not have suffered so long. Could not the gentleman have done something then for these women? It is} sir, an insult upon the supervisors of a county to take the position, that becuse they own a few dollars of property, they are not competent to manage their affairs in their own way. There are just as intelligent men following the plow, selling goods behind the counter, managing stores, or working in the shop, as ever met in this building to make laws or to make speeches. They are as capable of attending to their own business as the members of the Legislature are. If there is any corruption in the land that needs to be rooted out, it is this of the vast amount of fees paid into the hands of these men everywhere throughout the State. The fees of the county clerks and of circuit clerks are so extravagant that they can afford to buy their nomination and election, and give the amount of their salary for two or three years for the purpose of getting the office and filching the hard earnings of the people. It is time that was stopped, and I am not afraid to trust the supervisors of the counties totstop it. Abbott, l Anderson, 1 Atkins, ] Bayne, I Benjamin, ] Bowman, l Cary, 1 Church, 1 Cody, x Curmmings, Fox, IlRaines of Cook, So the motion of Mr. Vandeventer, that the previous question be ordered, was not agreed to. Mr. BAYNE. Mr. President: I am sorry to detain the Convention at all up on the section now under consideration, and I would not do so had not the gentle man from Stephenson [Mr. Turner], and 1516 CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION TH-URSDAY, YBAS. Gamble, Goodell, Goodhue, Medill, Parker, Peirce, Poage,. Beholfield, SedjZwick. Snider,' Anthony, Archer, Browning, Buxton, Coolbaugh, Craig, ross Eldr Elli8' age, F.Iler NAYS. alnes of Llk, ankins, art, arwood, ay, ildrup, ecoy, cdowell, I Perley, Rice,, Ross, Ilharp, Sherrill, Springer, wait.- - Wasliburn, Wendling, Whiting, Wilson-34. A.BSENT, OR NOT VOTING. Allen, of Alx.,Fnglish, Allen, of Crfd.,Forman, Bromwell, Hanna, Brown, HayeL-, Bryan, King, Cameron, Xeece, Dement, Pillsbury, Robinson, Skinner, Truesdale, Turner, Wright, Mr. Preside-nt-20. APRIL 28, 1870. DEBATES AXD PROCEk1DIGS. 1547 prophets, and ye build their sepulchres; and I am going to require the blood of all men shed on this earth, from Abel to Zachary, of this generation." The Legislatures, heretofore, have literally sucked the life-blood from the people, by taking taxes from them and puttiJg themn into the p(ockets of officers. We are here building their sepulchres; and I say uito you, the people will require all this blood from your hands, if you do not quit doing so, and will put a different class of men in power, who will look to the rights and interests of the people. ["Go on," "go on!"] Mr. GOODHUE. I have nothing to -say only just this: [Laughter]. These gentlemen are und'oubtedly astonished thlat I do not intend to make a speech, but I tell the truth. All I was goitig to say was simply this: [Continued laughter. "Order."] Yesterday, we voted this in. It is the turn of these other fellows now to vote it out, and I am entir, ly indifferent to-day, as matters are now running, because we can reconsider it to-morrow. ["Questionr)," "question."] Mr. GOODELL. I move the previous question. Mr. HAINES, of Lake. I have an amendment which I will offer. Mr. GOODELL. I insist on my motion. The motion for the previous question was agreed to, and the main question ordered. Mr. HAINES, of Lake. Mr. President: I would like to have an opportunity to offer my amendment co the section. I would ask that it be read for information. The Secretary read the amendment proposed by Mr. Haines, of Lake, as fol - lows: This section shall continue in force until changed by law. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The question is upon the motion of the gentleman from Stephenson [Mr. Turner], to strike out section six. The Secretary read section six,'as f)llows: SEc. 6. The county board shall fix the compensation of all county officers, with the amount of their necessary clerk hire, stationery, fuel, and in all cases where fees are provided for, the said compensation shall be paid only out of, and shall in no mnstance exceed the fees actually collected; they shall not allow either of them more per annum than fifteen hundred dollars, in counties not exceeding twenty thousand inhabitants, two thousand dollars,in counties containing twenty and not exceeding thirty thousand inhabitants; twenty-five hundred dollars, in counties contailling thirty and not exceeding fifty thousand inhabitants; three thousand dollars, in counties containing fifty and not exceeding seventy thousand inhabitants; thirty-five hundred dollars, in counties containing seventy and not exceeding one hundred thousand inhabitants - and four thousand dollars, in counties containing over one hundred thousand and not exceeding two hundred and fifty thousand inhabitants, and not more than one thousand dollars additional salary for each additional one hundred thousand inhabitants: Provided v That the compensation of no officer shall be increased or diminished during his term of 'office. All ftes or allowances by them received, in excess of their said compensation, shall be paid into the county treasury. Mr. ROSS. Mr. President: I desire to say, before the vote is taken upon this question, that I paired with the gentleman from Greene [Mr. English]. If he were here he would vote,gainst the section, and I am strongly for it. Allen of Alex. Fox, Allen of Crfd.,Hay Atkins, McDowell, Benjamin, Parker, Bowman, Parks, Browning, Rice, Cary, Scholfield, Church, S harp, Eldr edge, Snyde r, Forman, Springer, N,AYS. Abbott, Gamble, Anderson, Goodell, Anthony, Goodhue. Archer, Haines of Coo] Bayne, Haines of Lake Buxton, Hankins, Cody, Hart, Coolbaugh, Harwood, Craig, Hayes Cross, Hildrup Cumnmings, McCoy, Ellis, Medill Fuller, Merriam, They are not inhaman men. They know what men's rights are, and they are not going to oppress these officials. I want it understood here that thatere are plenty of young men all over our country following the plow this c ay at a salary of twenty and thirty dollars a month, who are just as capable of filling these high positions as are those men who fill them to day at from ten thousand to fifty thousand dollars a year-and who would like to do the work at a fair price. Mr. FOX. Will the gentleman yield for a question? Mr. BAYNE. I have not time. I hope that this section will be adopted. I hope we will redress the grievances of the people, and that we will pass this section just as it is. Let the Legisla ture cut down the fees of all the officers of the State, and if they are then more than is necessary to pay their salaries, let the surplus go into the county treasury. Then we will be lightening the burden that is resting upon the widows and the orphans, the laboring men, and men of all classes. But, sir, remit to the Legislature the power to regulate the salaries of county officers, continue it for twenty or thirty years, and it will be like a cancer. It will eat out the vitals of this country and corrupt the ballot box to such an extent that republicanism, in this country. will become a failure. I know how it is all over the country. I know these offcers buy their nominations. In the party that is in the ascendency, a nomination is equivalent to an election, and if they can get the nomination by corruption and fraud, they come before the people and control the election-and they will hold on to that system, unless we take hold of it, and,reak it up. Office-holders all over the State-and there are hosts of them-their name is legion-come here when the Legislature is in session, thrust their claims on members of the Legislature, and by bribery and corruption almost compel themn to raise their fees. Now, I am satisfied that this section will put a stop to that forever, and I hope that no member will go back upon it. I must say a little more to my friend from Stephenson [Mr. Turner], who has talked so much about the poor people of the country. I know that lawyers are a necessary institution. They are a good thing —in their place —and the country cou'd not get alonDg well without them, but whenever these "sbarnacles" are assailed, I do not like to see lawyers- coming to their rescue all the timne.- There was a personage on the earth about eighteen hundred years ago, who expressed his opinion on that subject, and — Mr. TINCHER. On- the subject of "barnacles?"T Mr. BAY!~. On the subject of!awyers. He was talking to a class of men known as scribes and pharisees. Mr. TURNER. Did he not also express his opinion about widows and orphans? Mr. BAYNE. He was speaking, as I said before, to the pharisees, and a certain lawyer, feeling indignant, said: "Thus speaking, Thou reproachest us all." His reply was: "Wo unto you, la"wyers, for you lay burdens on men's shoulders, which you will not touch with the ends of your fingers; your fathers!ed W~e APRIL 28, 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1547 The yeas and nays were ordered, aDd beii)o, takeii, resulted-yeas, 29, nays,.39 -as follows: YEAS. Turner, Underwood, v, Vand.t"r, Wall, S, W' :1.1 d 1, n g, Wheaton, Wilson' Wright-29. .&BS.ENT, OR NOT VOTING, Bromwell, English, Robinson, Brown, Haniia, Ross, Bryan, King, Skinner, Carneron, Neece, Truesdale, Dement, Pillsbury, Mr. President-15. So the MOtiOD of Mr. Turner, to strike out section six was not agreed to. The PRESIDENT, pro te2npore. The question is upon the amendment of the gentleman from Clark [Air. Scholfield.] Mr. HAINES, of C-ook. Mr. Pres-i dent: I would like to hear the amend ment. The Secretary read the amendment of:Cered by Mr. Scholfield, as follows Prefix to the section the following words-. "The General Amembly may provide by law that'' Mr. CODY. Mr. President: I wish to say a siDgleWord on the amendment. Mr. ANTHONY. Mr. President: The previous question still operates, as I understand it. The PRESIDENT pro tempore. That was only on the question to strike out, was it Dot? Mr. GOODELL. Mr. President: We discussed the subject very rally in Committee of the Whole. I therefore moved the previous question on the whole section. Mr. BROWNING (in his seat.) Yes. The PRESIDENT, pro tempo7-e. The gentleman is correct. The Chair recollects. The Convention is now acting under the operation of the previous question. [,-Question," "Question."] Air. MERRIAM. Mr. President: I move to lay the amendment on the table. Mr. ALLEN, of Crawford. Mr. President: I call for the yeas and nays. Mr. WELLS. Mr. President: I rise to apointoforder. Themotionofthegentieman from Tazewell [Mr. Merriam] to lay upon the table, is not in order while the Convention is acting under the previous question. The first business is to take the vote. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The Chair is of opinion that the motion to lay on the table takes precedence. Mr. WELLS. Mr. President: ThAt motion has precedence only when interpolated, as it were. Apply that here. Suppose some gentlemaa had moved the precious question, and before it had been ( rdered 1548 COSTI''UTJOAL COVETIO THURSDAY, ing question upon the table. Then the motion to lay on the table would take precedence. But the Coivenitioni has al ready ordered the previous question, and the first business is to obey that order and put the previous question. The q estion is not whether the vote shall be taken on the previous question. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The Chair will sustain the point of order made by the gentleman from.Peoria [Mr. Wells]. The question is therefore on the amend ment offered by the gentleman from Clark [Mr. Scholfield]. The yeas and nays were ordered, and being taken, resulted-yeas -7, nays 38 — as follows: Mr. HAINES, of Lake. Mr. Presi. dent- The Chair is laboring under a misapprehension. The gentleman fromn JoDaviess [Mr. Cary] only moved to reconsider the vote by which the amendment was carried. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. That motion would be out of order. Mr. HAINES, of Lake. I said so at the The effect of the main question being or dered, shall be to put an end to all debate, and bring the Convention to a direct vote, first upon all amendments reported, or pend ing, being first applied to the amendment last named, and then upon the main question. That is the effect-that it shall bring the Convention to a direct vote. Mr. ALLEN, of Crawford. I under. stand the gentleman from Mason [Mr. Wright] has moved to adjourn. While I am opposed to adjourning un til this question is settled, I think the Chair is in error in dectding the motion not in order, pending the previous ques tion. I have had some experience in these matters, and have never known the mo tion to be ruled out of order simply be cause of the previous question having been ordered. Gentlemen, upon reflection, will see in a moment that the operation of the rule, as construed by the Chair, would some times be to keep a deliberative body without adjourning, for several days, for the previous question is very frequently called upon the main pr(.position, and pending amendments, to dispose of which might take a long time. Mr. BROWNING. Will the gentle man frorm. Crawford [Mr. Allen" permit me to ask him a question? After com mencing to take a vote upon the ques tion, is a motion to adjourn in order? Mr. ALLEN, of Crawford. Most cer tainly. Mr. BROWNING. While proceeding with a vote? Mr. ALLEN, of Crawford. No, sir. Mr. BROWNING. We are proceeding with a vote, under the order of the Con vetition, in this case. We have taken a vote upon an amendment, and are pro ceeding with a vote upon the wain prop osition. We are precisely in the condi tion that we would be if there were a single question, and we had commenced to vote upon it, when no other motion is in order. Mr. ALLEN, of Crawford. I admit that while the Convention is dividing upon a question, a motion to adjourn is not in order. We have taken a vote up on a pending amendment, under the op eration of the previous question. The next vote that we can take is upon the main proposition, but until the Convention commences dividing upo,n the main proposition, a motion to adjourn is in order. During all experience of fifteen years in deliberative bodies, I have never, until this hour, heard that questioned, antd I recollect that, time and again, even during the sitting of this Convention, while operating under the previous question, wve have adjourned for dinner, or adjournedl over night, and at the call of the Convention, found ourselves precisely in the condition that we were when we adjourned. The PRESIDENT:, pro tempore. The Chair will state to the gentleman that the rules of this Convention provide for no such case, and the Convention has this afternoon determined that the rules of Jefferson's Manual do slot apply to this4~vention. time The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The Chair understood that the motion applied to the main question. But if it was intended to apply only to the amendment, the proceedings so far are out of order. The question is upon the adoption of the section. R.ECONSIDERATION OF PREVIOUS QUESTION. Mr. FOX. Mr. President: I move to reconsider the vote by which the main question was ordered. Mr. WASHBURN. Mr. Piesident: I move to lay that motion upon the table. Mr. FOX. I have the floor, sir, and I desire to state rmy reasons for my motion. Mr. ROSS. Mr. President: I rise to a point of order. We have taken the previous question upon the adoption of the section, and while that is pending the gentleman has no right to debate it. YEAS. Allen of Alex..Forman, Allen of Cr'fd.,Fox, Anderson, Hay, Atkins, Hildrup, Benjamin, McDowell, Bowman, Parker, Browning, Scholfield, Church, Sharp, Cody, Snyder, NAYS. Abbott, Gamble, Anthony, Goodell, Archer, Goodhu e, Bayne, Haines of Co'k Buxton, Haines of Lake Cary, Hankins, Coolbaugh, Hart, Craig, Harwood, Cross, Hayes, Cummings, McCoy, Eldredge, Merriam, Ellis, Moore, Fuller, Parks, The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The proceedings must be without debate. Mr. COOLBAUGH. Mr President: I rise to a point of order.' he motion of the gentleman from Schuyler [MIr. Fox] is clearly out of order. Mr. FOX. Mr. President: The gentle man is not addressing the Chair from his.. seat. [Laughter]. Mr. COOLBAUGH (in his seat). I rise to a point of order. [Laughter]. My point of order is that the gentleman from Schuyler [Mr. Fox] is out of order. The effect of ordering the previous question is to bring the Convention to a direct vote upon the proposition pending, and no other business can be in order. It is out of order to move a reconsideration. Mr. BROWNING. Mr. President: I think there is no doubt whatever but the gentleman from Schuyler [Mr. Fox] is out of order. When the previous question is ordered, when the Convention has determined that t he main question shall be no * put, the question comes upon the amendments first, and then upon the main question, and no other motion of any kind can be interposed to arrest the Convention in the execu tion of its order. The Convention has ordered that that shall be done, and no other motion can be interposed, even a motion to adjourn, to arrest the execution of the order. I do not want this section adopted, but I want to conform to the rules and take a fair vote upon it. EFFECT OF MOTION TO ADJOURN. Mr. WRIGHT. Mr. President: Imove the Conven-ion do now adjourn. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The Chair has just ruled that motion out of order, as the Convention is acting under the operation of the previous question. The Chair will hold that no motion is in order unless it be to reconsider the action by which the previous question was ordered, and that ruling is now put ABSENT, OR NOT VOTING.' Bromwell, Hanna, Robinson, Brown, King, Ross, Bryan, Medill, Skinner, Cameron, Neece, Tincher, Dement, Pillsbury, Truesdale, English, Rice, Mr. President —18. So the amendment offered by M r. Scholfield was not agreed to. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The question recurs upon the adoption of the section. ,Air. HAINES, of Lake. Mr. Presideniit: I would like to add the amendmenjt which I asked to be read. The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The amendment is not in order, except by unanimt.,us consent. ["Object."] Mr. ATKINS. Mr. President: I move that we do now adjourn. Mr. WELLS. Mr. President: I rise to a point of order. The motion to adjourn is not in order, for the reason that the Convention is now acting under the previous question. The motion to adjourn supersedes every other motion at every other time; but now, a vote having been ordered upon the question, is not in order. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The Chair sustains the point of order. Mr. CARY. Mr. President: I move to reconsider the vote we have taken. Mr. HART. Mr. President: I move to lay the motion on the table. Mr. HAINES, of Lake. Mr. President: I rise to a point of order. Are we not operating under the previous question? The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. A motion to reconsider is a privileged question. The yeas and nays were ordered upon the motion to reconsider. CONSTIXUTIONAL CONVENTION TiiURSDA' Y) 1548 in issue by the gentleman from Cook [,,Nlr. Coolbaugh] aud the gentleman from Adams [inir. Browning]. lvlr.BROWNING. Icalltbeattention of the Chair to the forty-seventh rule: Springer, Turner,' Vandeventer, Wall, Wells, Wendlilig, Wheaton, Wilson, Wright-27. APRIL 29, 18~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~O. DEBATES A~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~D PROCEEDINGS. 1549~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ a similar motion, and no business has in- tervened. The effect of the adjourning now, if the Convention should agree to adjourn, would be to bring this matter before the Convention to-morrow mornind,g, under the operation of the previous question. Our rules take precedence of any parliamentary law, or Jefferson's Manual, or anything else for the government of this body-and rule twenty-four says that a motion for adjournment shall always be in order, and like a motion to lay on the table, without debate. While I should be glad to have this question disposed of, no matter how it may be disposed, I must say that the position taken by the gentleman from Mc Henry [Mr. Church], and the gentleman from Crawford [Mr. Allen], is right, for I am clearly of the opinion that it is within the power of the Convention, without a violation of the rules, to adjourn. Mr. WELLS. Oa the question of order, I desire to refer the President to another rule, and also the reason of the operation of this rule. I insist the motion is not in order, for the reason that the Convention has ordered the previous question. Mr. ATKINS. I rise to a point of or der. The gentleman is speaking twice on the point of order-a breach of rule eight. Mr. WELLS. The rules applicable to debate do not apply to a point of order. The President is the mouthpiece of the Convention. He is bound to recognize any gentleman who addresses him. And when the Con vention orders him to do a certain thing he will not recognize any other gentleman. The Convention, by voting for the previous question, has ordered that the President shall not hear another gentleman, but shall dispose of that at once. Mr. WRIGHT. I rise to a point of order. Is the gentleman addressing the Chair by consent or by right? The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The Chair intimated to the gentleman, who takes such an interest in this matter, that the Chair would be very glad to hear what the gentleman has to say in the matter. Mr. WELLS. As I was saying, the President is the mouth-piece of the Convention, and pays attention to every gentleman on the floor, except when the Convention has ordered him to do something else. When his ears are sealed up, he cannot hear the motion to adjourn. Rule twenty-three reads as follows: 23. When a question is under debate, no motion shall be received but to adjourn, to call the house, to lay on the table, the previous question, to postpone indefinitely, to postpone to a day certain, to commit or to amend; which several motions shall have precedence in the order in which they stand arranged. That is the order in which the motion is to come, when the Convention is under debate. t By the previous question, the Convention has ordered the Chalr to do something else besides adjourning, and of course the motion to adjourn is not in order. efMr. TURNER. Mr. President: I am i very much surprised at the course this discussion has taken. I am sure if the Chair will reflect a single moment upon this subject, it can come to but one conclusion, that a motion to adjourn is always i in order, whenever any gentleman can get Allen of Alex.,Fox, Sharp, Allen of Cr'fd.,Haines of ConkTurner, Atkins, Haines of LakeUnderwood, Benjamin, Hankins, Wait, Bowman, Hay, Wall, Cary, McDowell, Wells Church, Parker, Wendling, Cody, Parks, Wheaton, Eldredge, Peirce, Wilson, Ellis, Rice, Wright-32. Forman, Scholfield, Mr. ALLEN, of Crawford. If the President will turn to rule twentv-four, he will find provision fo r just such a case. It says: "A motion to adjourn shall always be in order." Mr. CHURCH. Mr. President: I desire only to express my surprise that any such opinion should have been entertained as that a motion to adjourn is not in order at any time, except when the last motion voted upon wasa motion to adjourn. I cannot conceive of any other state or condition in a parliamentary body, under parliamentary law, or under our rules, that will be found in conflict with that rule. While the Convention is operating under the previous question, the imotion to adjourn is one of the privileged questions. A motion to lay on the table is also a motion that may be made while operating under the previous question. It does not have the effect to destroy the previous question, but to adjourn the body which, at reassembling, is in the same position. This effect of the motion to adjourn has its exceptions, i. e., when the mover cannot get the floor to make it, as when another person is speaking, or when the body is taking a vote. In all other cases it is in order to move to adjourn, and I should regret to see the Convention, in the excitement it is now under, lay down any different rules, because I am satisfied that that excitement being over, no such rule will be insisted upon. I wish to say that I am in favor of adjourning. I do not believe that this Convention is in a proper temper to deal with this question, for the section has objections which ought to be obviated. It is but an experiment at best, never ag itated before by the people of the State. It is only legislation. If passed in its present form our action will, in my opinion, be regretted. If adopted, I fear it will increase the fees instead of reducing them, provide higher salaries to some officers which ought not to be included in the section, and will be found very inoperative as to others, as the sheriff and coroner. Mr. ROSS. Mr. President: I object to the gentleman's speech. It is not upon the question. Mr. HA:YES. I claim that the gentleman from McI-enry [Mr. Chulrch] has stated the parliamentary law correctly. It is a rule that certain motions are privileged. A motion to adjourn has the effect to destroy a previous motion that comes in conflict with it. Whenever the Convention is brought to a direct vote, that is the question before the Convention. The previous question takes precedence of the main question. The emotion to lay off the table takes precedence. Although, as the gen~tleman- from McHenry []~lr. Church] has clearly stated, these motions would not be in order unless the floor could be obtained while a vote is being taken-. Mr. C OOLBAUGIL Mr. President: I am voting ont this question on the opposite side of the gentleman from Crawlsord [Mr. Allen], and the gentleman from ]~cH~enry [5Ir. Church], but I feel bound to say that I cannot but concur in the opinions they have expressed on the point of order. It is clearly in order to move to adjourn. It is always in order unless the motion is made immediately succeeding NAYS. Goodell, Goodhue, Hart, Harwood, Hayes, Hildrup, McCoy, Medill, Merriam, Moore, Perley, Poage, ABSENT, OR NOT VOTING. Bromwell, English, Robinson, Brown, Hanna Tincher, Browning, King, Skinner, Bryan, Neece, Truesdale, Cameron, Pillsbury, Mr. Prevent-16. Dement, So the motion of Mr. Wright, to adjourn, was not agreed to. ["Question!" "Question!"] RECONSIDERATION OF PREVIOUS QUESTION. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The question is upon the motion of the gentleman from Schuyler [Mr. Fox] to reconsider the vote by which the Convention ordered the previous question. Mr. WHITING. Mr. President: I thought it was decided that the motion to reconsider the previous question could not be entertained. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The Chair decided the other way. Mr. ROSS. Mr. President: I would inquire if it is in order to move to reconsider, while the previous question is pending? The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. Certainly, it must be so. Air. FOX. Mr. President: I call for the yeas and nays. Mr. COOLBAUGH. Mr. President; IP AIPP.IL 29) 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1549 the floor to make it. The only time when a gentleman cannot get the floor for any purpose, is while the ye'-and nays are being called. I have no doubt it has been the experience of the Chair, while in congress, that many times the previous question has beeii ordered upon a long bill and amendmeiits, and that after some amendments had been acted upon, adjournments have been moved aiid carried, from day to day, while acting under the operation of the previous question. Mr. ROSS. 31r. President: I cr)ncur with the opinion of other gentlemen with reference to a motion to adjourn. I know how gentlemen used to do in Congress, when they became annoyed with motions to adjourn. Thev, by a vote of'two-thirds, suspended the rule, and voted that motions to adjourn should not be in order, until the business before the house was disposed of. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The Chair is of opinion upon the whole, that the motion to adjourn is in order. ["Question!" "Question!"] The yeas and nays were ordered, and being taken, resulted-yeas 32,lnays 35as follows: 'YEA-S. Abbott, Anderson, Anthony, Are,her, Bayne, Buxton, Coolbaagh, Craig, Cross, Cummings, Fuller, I Gamble, Rogs, Sedgwick, Sherrill, Snyder, Spriiager, Sutherland, Tubbs, Vandeventer, Wagner, Washburn, Whiting-35. 1550 COSIUINLCnYNI~ RD So the motion of Mr. Anderson to adjourn was not agreed to. ["Question," "Question."] COUNTIES. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The question is upon the adoption of the~section. The yeas and nays were ordered. Mr. FOX. Mr. President: I rise to a privileged question. I ask to be excused from voting. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. LIt is not a privileged question. Mr. WELLS. Mr. President: I rise to ask for information. ['Question," "Question."] Mr. WELLS. The vote was taken on the amendment offered by the gentleman from Clark [Mr. Scholfield] viva voce. The Chair did not announce the result, and the yeas and nays were called for and ordered, but were not taken. Is not the taking of the yeas and nays the first thing in order? The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The recollection of the Chair is that theeyeas and nays were taken upon that amendment. The Secretary proceeded to call the roll. Mr. FOX (when his name was called) said: Mr. President: With the view of moving a reconsideration in the mornin g, I vote "Aye." Mr. UNDERWOOD (in his seat). You had better not say that, or somebody will move it to night. [Laughter.] Mr. ROSS (when his name was called) said: Mr. President: I have paired off on this, and will not vote. The result was then announced-yeas, 39, nays 24-as follows: Do I understand the Chair to decide that the motion is in order? The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. It is in order to reverse the action by which the previous question was ordered. The Chair has not much doubt on that subject. The question is on the motion of the gentleman from Schuyler [Mr. Fox], to reconsider the vote by which the previous question was ordered. The yeas and nays were -ordered, and being taken, resulted-yeas 21, nays 41 — as follows: YEAS. Allen of Crffd.,Forman, Sharp, Atkins, Fox, Turner, Benjamin, Haines of CookUnderwood, Bowman, Hankins, Wells, Church, McDowell, Wendling Cody, Rice, Wheaton, Eldredge, Scholfield, Wright-21. commonwealth. Enablethem so to discharg ful performance of all their duties. that there may be no want in the land. Governor of Yirginia, directed to the So the motion of Mr. Fox, to reconsider the vote by which the previous question was ordered, was not agreed to. YEAS. Fuller, Merriam, Gamble, Moore, Goodell, Perley, Goodhue, Peirce, HainesofCook,Poage, Haines ofLake, Sedgwick, Hankins, Sherrill, Hart, Sutherland, Harwood, Tubbs, Hayes, Wagner, Hildrup, Wait, McCoy, Washburn, Medill, Whiting-39. Mr. ANDERSON. Mr. President: I move the Convention do now adjourn. The yeas and nays were ordered, and, being taken, resulted-yeas28, nays 36as follows: Allen of Crfd., Fox, Snyder, Anderson, Haines of CookTurner, Atkins, Hankins, Underwood, Benjamin, McDowell, Wall, Bowman, Parker, Wells, Cary, Parks, Wendling, Cody, Rice, Wheaton, Eldredge, Scholfield, Wilson, Ellis, Sharp Wright-28. Forman ABSENT, OR NOT VOTING. Allen, of Alex. Dement, Ross, Bromwell, English, Skinner, Brown, Hanna, Tincher, Browning, King, Truesdale, Bryan, Neece, Underwood. Cameron, Pillsbury, Mr. President-20. C Cody, Robinson, So section six was agreed to. Mr. HAYES. Mr. President: I move to reconsider the vote by which the section was adopted, and on that I move the previous question. Goodhue, Poage, Haines of LakeRoss, Hart, Sedgwick, Harwood, Sherrill, Hayes, Sprinlger, Hildrup, Sutherland, McCoy, Tubbs, Medill, Va~adeventer, Merriam, Wagner, Moore, Wait Perley, Washburn, Peirce, Whiting-36. ADJOURNMENT. Mr. WELLS. Mr. President: I move that the Conventi(n do now adjourn. The motion was agreed to. So the Convention (at six o'clock and one minute) adjourned. AB SENT, OR NOT VOTING. Allen of Alex.,Dement, Pillsbury, Bromwell, English, Robinson, Brown, Hanna, Skinner, Browning, Hay, Tincher, Bryan, King, Truesdale, Cameron, Neece, Mr. President-19. Church, G. C. WALKER, Governor of Virginia. The telegram was ordered to be spread upon the journal. FEMALE SUFFRAGE. Mr. SKINNER presented a petition of Mrs. Mary Mercer and others, of Liberty, Adams county, against female suffrage. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION FP.TDA-T, 1550 EIGHTY-THIBD DAY. FRIDAY, April 29,1870. The Convention met at nine o'clock NA.YS. Abbott, Anthony, Archer, Bayne, Buxton, Coolbaugh, Craig, Cros.s,,), Cummings, Ellis, Fuller, Gambfe Goodell, Goodhue, Haines of LakeSedgwick, Hart, Sherrill. Harwood, Snyder,' Hay, Springer, Hayes, Sutherland, Hildrup, Tubbs, McCoy, Vandeventer, Medill, Wagner, leri-iam, Wait, Moore, Wall' Perley; -Washburn, Peirce, Whiting, Poage, Wilson-41. Ross, ABSENT, OR NO Allen of Alex.,Cary, ADderson, Dement, Bromwell, EDglish, Brown, Ranna, BroWDiDg, KiDg, Bryan, Neece, Cameron, Parker, Parks, Pillsbury, Robinson, SkiDner, Tincher, Truesdale, Mr. President-21. Abbott, - Anderson, Anthony, Archer, B..t.n, Bay,,e' Cary, Coolbaugh, Craig, Cross, Cummings, Ellir.,, Fox, ADJOURNMENT. YEA$. NAYS. McDowell, Parker, Parks, Rice, Scholfield, Sharp, fS.der, springer, Allen of Crfd., Atkins, Benjamin, Bowman, Church, Eldredge, Forman, Hay, Turner, Vandeventer, Wall, Wells, Wendling, Wheatou,l Wilson., Wr- hf-24. 19 NI&YG. Abbott, Anthony, Archer, Bayne, Buxton Coolbagh, Craig, Cross. Cum'mlngs, 'Fuller, Gamble,Goodell, API? 917.DBTS N RaEIG.15 y tion." It is certainly an expression of pub Itc opinion. -he gentleman from Lake [Mr. Haines] e has referred to one mode of warfare. e There are several modes, Mr. President. e One mode is for ce. The gentle ma n fro m Lake [Mr. Haines] says that another is - sound-there is still another, which is e mere effluvium. I do not know which the member from Lake [Mr. Haines] fights with, nor do I care. I move the previous question. Mr. WELLS. Mr. President: My mo3 tion was that the petition be laid upon . the table, considered with the article on suffrage when returned, and spread upon the record. Mr. BUXTON. Mr. President: I will ) state that there has been no petition ~ spread upon the journal. ["A division!' "A division!"] The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The question will be first taken upon the first . branch of the motion that the petition . be laid upon the table, and considered with the report of the Committee on ~ Suffrage. Mr. TURNER. Mr. President: These petitioners are women, as I understand. It does seem to me that there is a manifest pr~' priety in having their peti tion, with their names thereto, spread up on the records. The objection is that it is too long. Never mind, if it is long-I do not care how long it is. I would like to have spread upon the journal the sentiments of virtuous women of our country, so that we may know their opinions upon this subject. This question is assuming grave importance. Oine class of women have petitioned for the right of suffrage. Shall we deny to another class-the wives and mothers in the country-the right to protest? The question being upon the first branch of the motion of AMr. Wells that the petition be laid upon the table and considered with the report of the Com mittee on Suffrage, the motion was agreed to. The question being upon the second branch of the same motion, that the pe tition be spread upon the record, the mo tion was not agreed to. COUNTIES. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. If there are no other comlmunications, the Convention will take up the unfinished business of yesterday. The unfinished business of yesterday is the motion of the gentleman from Cook [Mr. Hayes] to reconsidler the vote bhy which the Con vention adopted section six, upon which the previous question has been ordered. Mr. WAGNER. I move to lay the motion on the tacble. Mir. FOX. M~r. President: Is such a motiomn l order, after the previous question has been moved? Mr. RICE. Mr. President: I under. stooud the question, when the Convention adjourned yesterday, to) be a motion to recon3sider, on which the previous questio~n was ordered. If that be se, I do) not see how the motion of the gentleman from Carroll [Mr. Wagner] is in order. The PRESIDENT) pro tempore. By 'the judgment of the (Convention yesterday, the motion to lay on the table is permsissible whille the previous question is pen,ding. The Chair is only conforming to the sense of ths Convention. Tpe The gentleman will receive but a very b small indorsement from his own constitu ents, much less from the people from oth R er parts of the State, in support of the doctrine, that this Convention is above criticism or protest, on the part of the t people. o I enter my protest, not against the pro test of the protestants, but against the doctrine that the people may not "pro test" against the action of this Conven tion. Mr. HAINES, of Lake. Mr. Presi dent: The Chinese plan of warfare is said to be the making of a great noise I do not propose to introduce that plan myself, or to repel any attacks upon that plan. I have raised no question, in regard to the right of protest by the people, or the right of petition, or remonstrance. The motion is that the protest of a citizen against the act of this Convention shall be spread upon our journal, and be come official. It is a mere question of order under the rules. Mr. SEDGWICK. The gentleman is complaining that the motion is contrary to the rules; and I think we have a rule that no member shall speak more than once, on the same subject. Mr. HAINES, of Lake. I have not spoken on this subject before. I rise now to speak to it, and against the motion to spread a protest upon our journal, unless it comes under the rule. I appreciate the good intention of those women, in petitioning in the manner which they have done, aLd I appreciate their good intention in protesting against that which they think would be wrong, and I am glad to see women so independent-minded that they will protest anywhere, and at all times, against that which they think to be wrong. I was much pleased with the language of the protest presented by the gentleman from Adams [Mr. Skinner], but when a gentleman rises here, and asks to have a protest against our acts, not coming from two members, spread upon the journal, I merely raise the question, that it is encumbering our journal with matter contrary to the rules. I do not wish to argue the question, but a gentleman has impugned my motivesasserting that I opposed the right of petition. I did no such thing, and the gentleman is decidedly out of place when he accuses me of that of which he knows I am not guilty. There is no proposition before the Convention to strike the word "male" from the Constitution. There is a proposition to submit the question to the people, as to whether they will strike it out. Does the gentleman say that the people shall not have the right to vote on that question? hLet him go before the people, and say that they shall not have the right to ad minister the government of the State, as they think proper, and, politically, where will he stand? The people will not sustain him, or any other member on this floor, in such position. e o sr. WENDLING. Mr. President: I was about to rise to a point of order, but inasmu.h as the gentleman from Lake [Mr. Haines], has sat down, I will sit down also. [Laughter]. Mr. TURNER. Mr. President: I only wish to say that it is a matter of no importance whether a document of this character is called a "protest" or a "peti. g The petition was laid on the table, 1 be considered with the resolution offere by Mr. Goodhue, on the s ame subject. REPORT OF COMMITTEE ON CANAL AN CANAL LANDS. Mr. WHEATON. Mr. President: beg leave to submit the following repol from the Committee on Canal and Cant Lands, and ask that it be read. The Secretary read thereport, as fo lows: Mtr. President and Gentlemen Dof the Constit tional C/onvention: The Committee on Canal and Canal Land have directed me to report back to the Cot vention those parts of the resolutions of th Bloomington convention that were referre to said committee that relate to railroad con panies and other corporations, and to ask tha they be considered by the Convention at th same time the report of the Committee o Railroads is considered. Respectfully submitted, CHAS. WEEATO0, Chairman. April 28, 1870. The PR.ESIDENT, pro tempore. Ther being no objection, that will be taken a the order of the Convention. FEMAL E SUFFRAGE. Mr. WELLS. Air. President: I present the protest of Miss Fannie Fulton, and about seventy other ladies of Cook county, against conferring upon the women of the State the duties and responsibilities of suffrage. I move that it be spread upon the journal. Mr. HAINES, of Lake. Mr. Presi dent: If any protest is to be spread upon the record, I would like to hear it read. The Secrettry read the petition. MVIr. BUXTON. Mr. President: I would ask the gentleman if that is the same one he presented yesterday? It sounds like it. [Laughter]. Mlr. WELLS. Mr. President: I would say to the gentleman that it is not. There are a great many peti'ions like tha-. Sir. HAINES, of Lake. Mr. President: In regard to this protest I would say, that there is no proposition before this Convention to confer upon anybody but male citizens the right of voting. Therefore, it does not go to any action contemplated bv the Convention. I protest against anything of that kind going upon the records, except under the rules, according to which no protest can go upon the journal, unless signed by two members of the Convention. No individual member has the right of protest. Air. MEDILL. Mr. President: I must differ with the gentleman from Lake county [Mr. Haines]. I do not believe this Convention is hedged about with such a divinity that the humblest citizen may not "protest" against anything it is doing. I hold that any of our constituents, male', and female, have an inalienable right, in respectful language, either to protest, to petition or remonstrate in regard to any propositions before this Convention, or being acted upon by it. I claim that to be the right of the sov-ereign people, who sent us here. We are nothing but their agents, or representatives, sent here for a specific purpose, to propose amendments, or revisions, or al-terations of their organic law, and it is a very strange doctrine, indeed, to preach -on this floor, that the principal has no right to indicate to his agent what he de. sires to have done or not done. t t APP.IL 29, 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1551 1552 COXSTJT IITJO~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~AL OO~~~~~~~~~~~YENTIO~~~~~~~~~~~~ FRIDAY,~~~~~~~~~~~~~ and leave it to the Committee on Revision and Arrangement to give it its proper position. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The gentleman from Adams [Mr. Browning] moves to amend section seven, by striking out the words "throughout the State," and by inserting the words, "in the class of counties to which they may respectively belong. " The amendment offered by Mr. Brownirg, was agreed to. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The question is upon the adoption of the section. Mr. ANTHONY. Mr. President: I move to strike out the second line —" the compensation herein provided shall apply only to officers hereafter elected." I suppose we want to regulate the fees. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The question is on the amendment offered by the gentleman from Cook [Mr. Anthony]. Mr. CODY. Mr. President: I move to lay that amendment on the table. Mr. ANTHONY. Mr. President: I call for the yeas and nays. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The question is on the motion of the gentleman from Du Page [Mr. Cody] to lay on the table the amendment offered by the gentleman from Cook [Mr. Anthony]. The yeas and nays were ordered, and, being taken, resulted-yeas, 49, nays 17, -as follows: YEAS. Goodell, Peirce, Goodhue, Poage, Haines of Lake,Sedgwick, Hankins, Sherrill, Hart, Sutherland, Harwood, Tincher, Hayes, Tubbs, Hildrup, Wagner, McCoy, Wait, Medill, Wall, Merriam, Whiting, Moore, Wilson-38. Perley, NAYS. Allen of Alex., Fox, Allen, of Cr'fd,Hay, Benjamin, McDowell, Bowman, Parker, Browning, Parks, Cary, Rice, Church, Scholfield, Cody, Sharp, Eldredge, Snyder, Forman, Mr. UNDERWOOD. Inasmuch as we have a rule that the repeal of one sta tute does not revive the old statute, would no t this amendment leave the,,se officers without compensation? Mr. CHURCH. I think not. The se laws, ceasing to b e in force, would, of course, leave us under every general law of the State, which has been passed for all the counties. This would be my opinion of the effect of th is a me ndme nt. If t he gentleman from St. Clair [cIr. Underwood] is doubtful up on it, he might suggest any amendment to make it meet his views, and I will accept it. I am willing that'the amendment shall receive such amendment as will guard against any danger in that direction, as I desire simply to preserve the uniform and general laws of the State. Mr. WHITING. Mr. President: Before the gentleman sits down, I would like to ask him whether such laws, for instance, as that for the building of a new State house, would be a special law, and whether this amendment would affect the compensation of the agents, commissioners, etc. Mr. CHURCI-H. Mr. President: The amendment will apply only to general officers, as this article applies to county officers, of course. Mr. RICE. Mr. President: I wish to make a few remarks upon the amendment of the gentleman from McHenry [Mr. Church]. It occurs to me that there is great danger to be apprehended from the provision that all the fees established by special law shall cease at the adoption of this Constitution. I think it will be found, on examination, that what perhaps was the special law in 1849, fixing the fees of county officers, has, in a number of counties, where a different scale of fees has been provided, repealed, either directly, or by implication, the law, as to those particular counties; and if the law al lowing fees that are special to certain counties or class of counties, is annulled by provisions of the Constitution, I think the consequence mentioned by the gen tleman from St. Clair [Mr. Underwood] will be likely to follow. The fact is, that unless we examine very carefully the state of the special acts allowing fees, we are not in a condition to know precisely hiow much we may or may not be doing, by inconsiderately repealing a whole class of laws. it is but a special provision injected into the Constitution, to repeal a class ofC special acts of the Legislature, which may be obnoxious in principle, but whicll it may be very unsafe to repeal, unless we are prepared to substitute something better in their place. As the Legislature can only do that intelligently and properly, I think the amendment ought not to be adopted. Mr. WAGONER. M~r. President:- I move to lay the amendment of the genltleman from Mc~enry [Mr. Church] or the table. ['"Read."iI] The Secretary read the amendment of — fered by Mr. Church, as follows: Add to the end of the section the following*: "Blut all fees established by special law shall cease after the adoption of this Constitution.', D~r. CHURCH. I call for thle yeas and nays on that. Mr. McDOWELL. Mr. President. I Atkins, English, Robinson, Bromwell, Haines of Cook,Ross, Brown, Hanna, Truesdale, Cameron, King, Wright, Dement, Neece, Mr. President-17. Ellis, Pillsbury, So the motion of Mr. Wagner to lay on the table the motion of Mr. Hayes, to reconsider the vote by which section six was adopted, was agreed to. The PRESIDENT, pro terfmpore. The question is upon the adoption of section seven. The Secretary read section seven, as follows: SEC. 7. The fees of each class of county officers shall be uniform throughout the State. The compensation herein provided shall apply only to officers hereafter elected. Mr. BROWNING. Mqr. President: I wish to offer an amendment to section seven. It provides that the fees of each class of county officers shall be uniform throughout the State. There is a provision in the next section, I believe, that counties shall be classified, and that the tariff of fees may be adjusted upon different scales in the different classes of counties. The two sections are therefore incompatible. I propose to strike out the words "throughout the State," in the first and second lines, and insert in lieu thereof, "in the class of counties to which they may respectively belong," so as to make the section read: The fees of each class of county officers shall be uniform in the class of counties to which they may respectively belong. I move further to transfer section seven to section eight, immediately after the word "class," in the seventh line. It would come in more appropriately there but it has just occurred to me that the Committee on Revision can arrange that and there is no necessity of taking a vote upon it here. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The gentleman from Adams [Mr. Browning] moves to strike out certain words, and carry the remainder into section eight, as a part of section eight. Mr. BROWNING. Mr. President: It is section seven I move to amend. I will withdraw so much of my motion as relates to the transfer to section eight, TE~AS. Goodhue, Snyder, Haines of Lake,Skinner, Hankins, Springer, Hart, Sutherland, Harwood, Tincher, Hay, Trbbs, Hildrup, Turner, McCoy, Urderwood, McDowell, Vande- enter, Merriam, Wagner, Moore, Wait, Parker, Wells, Perley, Wendling, Peirce, Wheaton, Sedgwick, WhitiDg, Sherrill, Wilson- 19. Allen of Alex.,Coolbaugh, Ross, Allen of Crwfd,Dement, Scholfield, Anderson, Fuller, Sharp, Anthony, Hayes, Wall, Bryan, Medill, Washburn-17. Buxton, Rice, ABSENT, OR NOT VOTING. Bowman, Haines of CookPoage. Bromwell, Hanna, Robinson, Brown, King, Truesdal c e, Cameron, Neece, Wright, Ellis, Parks, Mr. President-17. English, Pillsbury, So the motion of Mr. Cody, to lay on the table the amnendment offered by Mr. Anthony, was agreed to. Mr. CHURCH. Mr. President: I offer the following amendment to section seven: Add after the last clause the words, "but all fees established by special law shall cease at the adoption of this Constitution."M This will not by any means affect any of the general laws of the State that have been adopted for the creation and regulation of fees; but in all those courn t;es, including the county of Cook, where, as has been stated, men have come in and clandestinely procured the enactment of laws for increasing the rates of fees in their counties, without the knowledge of the people of the county, and where these increases are special and of a local character s t CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION FF.iDA.Yi 1552 question is on the motion to lay on the table. The yeas and nays were ordered, and, being taken, resulted-yeas 38, iaay's 28 -as follows: Abbott, Anderson,, Anthony, Archer, Bayne, Bryan, Buxton, Coolbaugh, Craig, Cross, Cummings, Fuller, Gamble, Skinner, Springer, Turner, Underwood, Vandeventer, Washburn, Wells, Wendling, Wheaton-28. ABSENT, OR NOT VOTING. Abbott, Archer, Atkins, Bayne, Benjamin, Browning, Cary, Church, Cody, Craig, Cross, Cummings, Eldredge, Forman, Fox, Gamble, Goodell NA.YB. APRIL 29, 1870. DEBATES AND PROOEEDIGS. 1q53 thousand inhabitants, may fix the compensation of county officers at not to exceed fifteen hundred dollars. If this amendment be adopted, it will leave the law of 1847 in force as the only general law in force in the State concerning fees. Under that law, in many countics of less than twenty thousand inhabitants, the fees will not amount to over six or seven hundred dollars per annum, which will be the only compensation the officers in such counties can receive. Or, if the board fix the compensation at a higher rate, the excess over the fees re ceived will have to be paid out of the county treasury. The fees allowed by the law of 1847, will be an inadequate compensation for officers in small counties. This amendment is unjust and pernicious. Therefore I vote "No." Mr. WELLS (when his name was called) said: Mr. President: The operation of this amendment will be to, by a constitutional enactment, repeal all special laws, while not re-enacting the general law. We leave these officers without fees. I vote "No." Mr. ATKINS (before the result was announced). Mr. President: The gentleman from Bareau [M-r. Whiting] is in his seat, and has not answered to his name. Gentlemen very much clamour about high fees; and yet there are gentlemen who want to dodge this question. I insist the gentleman shall vote. Mr. WHITING. Mr. President: I would like to explain my vote. Mr. TINCHER. I object. Mr. WHITING. I vote "No." The result was then announced-yeas, 54; nays, 11-as follows: a repo rt f rom the Committee upon Banks and Currency. The report was la id u pon the table, and two h undred c opie s ordered printed. [The re p ort is as follows:] REPORT Of THE COMMITTEE ON BANKS AND CURRENCY. SECTION 1. No State bank shall h ereafter be created, nor shall the State own or be liable for any stock in any corporation or joint stock company or association for banking purposes, no w created, o r to be hereafter creatqd. SEC. 2. No a ct of the General Ass embly authorizing or creating corporat i on s or associations with banking powers, whether of is sue, deposit o r disc ount, n or am endments thereto, shall go into effect o r in any manner be in frce, unles s the same shall be submitte d to a vote of the peo ple at the general election next -su cceeding pa ao the passage of the samee, and be appr o ved by a majority of all the votes cast at such election f or or against such law. SEC. 3. Every stockholder in a banking corporation or i n stitution shall be individually res ponsible a nd reliable to its creditors, over and above the amount of st ock by him or her held, to an amount equal t o hi s o r he r respective shares so held, for all it a t l i abilities accruing while he or she remains such stockholder. SEC. 4. The suspension of specie pa ymen t s by banking insti tutions, on i ts circulation, created by the laws of this State, shall never be permitted or sanctioned. SEC. 5. Every banking association now, or which may hereafter be organized under the laws of this State, shall make and publish a full and accurate quarterly statement of its affairs (which shall be certified to under oath by one o r mo re of its officers), as may be provided by law. SECa 6. The actual paid up capital of any such association shall be taxed in the same manner as other property. SEC. 7. Private bankers who receive deposits, shall be taxed on the capital actually used in such business, the same as the capital of other banks maybe taxed by the laws of this State. I SEC. 8. If a general banking law shall be enacted, it shall provide for the registry and countersigning, by an officer of State, of all bills, or paper credit, designed to circulate as money; and require security to the full amount thereof, to be deposited with the State Treasurer in United States or Illinois State stocks, to be rated at ten per cent. below their par value; and in case of a depre ciation of said stocksto the amount of ten per cent on the dollar below par, the bank or banks owning said stocks shall be required to make up said deficiency by depositing ad ditional stocks, and said law shall also pro vide for the recording of the names of aill stockholders in such corporations, the amount of stock held by each, the time'of any transfer, and to whom. J. L. TINCHRER, E. Y. RICE, - ~~~~~G. Rl. WVENDLING W. F. COOLBAUGtt DAVID ELLIS, Jo:Hl G. IHAINESY J. S. HILDRUP. COUNTIES. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The question is upon section eight. The Secretary read section eight, as follows: SEC. 8. All lass fixing the fees of Stats, county and township officers, shall terminate with the terms of the incumbents who may be in office at the meeting of the next General Assembly after the adoption of this Constitution7 and; the General Assembly shall, by general law, uniform in its operation, provide for and regulate the fees of said officers and the successors to said officers, so as to reduce the same to a reasonable compensation for services actually ren dered. But the General Assembly may, by general law, classify the counties by population into not more than three classes, and regulate the fees according to class. This article shall not be construed as depriving the General Assembly of the power to reduce the fees of existing officers. Mr. HAY. Mgr. President: I would like Allen of Alex. Harwood, Archer, Hildrup, Bayne, McCoy,' Browning, McDowell, Fuller, Moore, Gamble, Parker, Goodell, Peirce, Goodhue, Rice, Hankins, Sharp, Hart, Sherrill, NAYS. Abbott, Craig, Parks, Allen of Cr'fd.,Cross, Ross,' And erson, Cummings, - Scholfield, Anthony, Eldredge, Skinner, Atkins, Fox, Springer, Benjamin,, Haines of L'ke,Tincheri Bryan, Hay, Turner, Cary, Hayes, Washburn, Church, Medill, Wendling, Cody, - Merriam, Wheaton-31. Coolbaugh, ABSENT,, OR NOT VOTING. Bowman, Forman, Robinson, Bromwell, Haines of C'ok,Sedgwick, Brown, Hanna, Truesdale, Buxton, King, Tubbs, Cameron, Neece, WVait Dement, Perley, Wright,' Ellis, Pillsbury, Mr. President - 23. English, Poage, So the motion of Mr. Wagner, to lay on the tab ththe amendment offered by Mr. Church, was not agreed to. Mr. WHEATON. Mr. President: I move to amend the amendment of the gentleman from McHenry [Mr. Church], by adding after the amendment proposed by him the words And such officers shall receive only such fees as are provided by the general law. Mr. CHURCH. Mr. President: I accept that amendment, The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The question is upon the amendment of the gentleman from McHenry (Mr. Church], as amended by the gentleman from Kane [Mr. Whestonl. The Secretary read the amendment offered by Mr. Church, as amended by Mr. Wheaton, as follows; Add to the end of the section the following: "But all fees established by special law shall cease at the adoption of this Constitution, and such officers shall receive only such fees as are prescribed by general law."' The yeas and nays were ordered. The Secretary proceeded to call the roll. ]Mr. VANDEVENTER (when his name was called) said: Mr. President: I desire to explain my vote. By virtue of section six, the county board in counties not -exceeding twenty bord9 Abbott, Forman, Rice, Allen of Crfd.,Fox, Ross, Anderson, ee, Fuller, Scholfield, Anthony, Gamble, Sedgwick, Archer, Goodell, Sherrill, Atkins, Goodhue, Snyder, Bayne, Haines of Lake, Skinner, Benjamin, Hankins, Springer, Bryan, Hart, Sutherland, Cary Harwood, Tincher, Church, Hay, Tubbs, Cody, Hayes, Turner, Coolbaugh, Hildrup, Underwood, Craig, McCoy. Wagner, Cross, Medill, Wait, Cummings, Merriam, Washburn, Dement, Parks, Wendling, Eldredge, Peirce, Wheaton-54. T:Ir ABSENT, OR NOT VOTING. Bowman, Haines of Cook,Poage, Bromwell, Hanna, Robinson, Brown, King, Truesdale, Cameron, Neece, Wall, Ellis, Perley, Wright, English, Pillsbury, Mr. President-18. So the amendment offered by Mr. Church, as amended by Mr. Wheaton, was agreed to. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The question is upon the adoption of section seven, as amended. Section seven, as amended, was agreed to. APRIL 29) 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1553 would ask the gentleman if his amendment does not affect present incumbents? Mr. CHURCH. Mr. President: I would answer that question by sayidg thatitaffectsall incumbents who have come to the Legislature, as has been stated bv gentlemen here, and privately procured special enactments for the purpose of raiSiDg fees in their special cases. It does not apply to any general law of the State concerning fees and salaries. Mr. McDOWELL. But does it not apply as well to those who have uot come to the Legislature? Mr. VANDEVENTER. Mr. President: I rise.to a point of order. I object to these interrogatories and answers. The PRESIDENT, pro temvore. They are in the nature of debate and are out of order. The yeas and Days were ordered; and being taken resulted-yeas 29, nays 31as follows: YEAS. Snyder Sutherland, Underwood, . Vandeventer, Wagner, wdi-i, Wells, Whiting, Wilson. TEAS. NAYS. Allen of Alex.,Moore, Browning, Parke'r, Buxton, Sharp, McDowell, Vandeventer, Wells, Whiting, Wil-soll. REPORT - OF COMMITTEE ON BANS AND CURRENCY. . Mr. TINCHNR asked, and by unanimous consent, obtained leave to present 1554 CONSTITUTIONAL COYENTION FMDAY, topropose the following amendment to section eight: Insert the word "respectively" after the word "terms," in the second line. I do so for the reas on that the terms of these officers terminate at different periods. It should read: The terms respectively of the incumbents who may be in office at the meeting of the General Assembly after the adoption of this Constitution. Mr. WAIT. Mr. President: Suppose they should terminate then and tlie General Assembly should no)t pass any law until late in the session, or pass no law at all, how would they get any pay? Mr. HAY. The gentleman misapprehends the provision. It is not that the fees terminate at the meeting of the General Assembly, but with terms of the incumbents in office at the time of the meeting of the first General Assembly. Mr. WAIT. The meaning o f the se ct ion i s ve ry uncertain and vague, to my mind, at least, and I apprehend that it is to the minds of some other members. I do not think the organic law should be so framed as to be so misunderstood as this section seems likely to be. There should be no such ambiguity about it, and I for one am opposed to the section for that reason. I am certain, looking over it several times as I have, that I do not unrderstand it as other gentlemen do, and if we, after hearing this section discussed as we have from time to time, have a misunderstanding of its mearidg, each one giving a different construction to it, is it not fair to infer that the people will be unable to determine - its meaning? I have drawn up a section as a substitute for this, and will offer it, if in order. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The substitute is in order. The Secretary will read it. The Secretary read the substitute offered by Mr. Wait, as follows: Until the first General Assembly under this Constitution shall otherwise provide, all county and township officers shall receive their fees in pursuance of the now existing laws; but it shall become the duty of the General Assembly at its first meeting under this Constitution, to so grade and reduce the fees paid to county and township officers that they shall amount to no miore than a reasonable compensation for the services actually rendered. But the General Assembly may classify the counties of this State into not more than three classes, upon the basis of population, and regulate the fees according to class, which shall be by general lawr uniibrm in its operation in the respective classes. li, r. HAYES. Mr. President: I move to amend the substitute by striking out the wo)rd "first,' relating to session of the Legislature. I think it possible the first General Assembly might fail. I will say I prefer the subst-itulte. Mr. WHEATON. Mr. President: Is the substitute in order? The PRESIDENT, pro templer. The substitute is in order, but the amendment to the original section takes precedence. The question is upon the amendment offered by the gentleman from Sangamen [Mr. Hay]. The Secretary read the amendment of fered by M~r. H~ay, as follows: Insert after the word "terms,'} in the second line, the word "'respectively." The amendment offered by Mr.- Hay was agreed to. Mr. RICE. Mr. President. I wish to move an amendment to the original sec tion-,~ Strike out of the first line the word "State." I think the sense of the Convention has already been expressed as to the mode of compensating State officers. These officers constitute one class-the Governor, Secretary, etc. —and in the executive article, which has gone into the hands of the Committee on Revision, and which happens to be before me, the following is provided: The officers named in this article shall receive for their services a salary (to be established by law), which shall not be increased or diminished during their official term. They shall not receive to their ownr use any fees, costs, perquisites of office, or other compensation. The eighth section confounds improperly the mode of compensating State officers and township and county officers. The mode of compensating State officers having already been provided for —and I think in a way entirely satisfactory to the Convention-the word "State" ought to be stricken out, so as to exclude State officers. All the subsequent provisions of this section will apply to State of ficers, so that the laws now in force fixing fees will terminate with the terms of the present incurebents, and the General Assembly will provide, by general laws, f or the fees of their successors. This portion of the section, which requires the General Assembly todpass uniform laws on this subject, cannot apply where there is but a single officer in a class. It is evident that the modes of paying county and State officers have been confounded. I have some views on the subject of compensating county officers, which subject is involved in this section, which I have unfortunately for myself, had no opportunity, under the operation of the previous question, to express. This section, with the modifications that have been suggested by myself and others, would, in my judgment, stan-ding by itself, furnish a much better remedy than it will in connection with the preceding section. This contemplates a uniformity of fees, a provision that no incumbent in office can be benefited by any act of the Legislature increasing the fees, but that any such act shall be for the benefit of his successor. Those two principles alone engrafted in the Constitution, strike at the root of the evil which has been the subject of so much complaint and of a heated discussion, and, I think, of rather precipitate action on yesterday. If officers could not be benefited by securing an increase of fees during their terms, they would never besiege the Legislature to increase their fees enormously. If a uniform rule of fees for different classes of counties-say two or three classes, based on population —were provided, no combination of these officers with their representatives could perpetuate such abuses as have occurred, becaus e it would require the consent of all the counties to a general scale of fees. I think that we are but transferring the battleground of this lobbying and corruption, when we take it from the Legislature and give it to the local county boards. Mr. ROSS. Mr. President: Is the gen- tleman discussing the proposition before us, or the one adopted yesterday? If he is discussing the one adopted yesterday, I object. Mr. RICE. Mr. President: I am discussing section eight on the subject of compensating county officers. While I submit cheerfully to any decision of the Chair, I hope that as I was on yesterday cut off from expressing my views, by the previous question, the gentleman will not interrupt me when I have only ten minutes time. Mr. ROSS. I object, Mr. President; the gentleman is not discussing the subject matter, but claims that because he was cut off yesterday, he must not be interrupted to-day. Mr. RICE. I object to an interruption, and call for the decision of the Chair. The PRESIDENT, pro tempo?re. The gentleman wi'l state his amendment again. Mr. RICE. The amendment which I offered, sir, was to strike out the word "State," from section eight. I was proceeding to discuss that whole section, as I understand that it is now before the Convention for consideration. The PRESIDENT, pro tempors. If the gentleman from Fulton [Mr. Ross] insists upon the rule that the gentleman shall confine himself to the subject actually before the Convention, the Chair will have to confine the gentleman from Montgomery [ir. Rice] to the consideration of reasons why the word "State" should be stricken out, although considerable latitude might be allowed in that discus. sion. Mr. RICE. I have said, Mr. Presidents all that I wish to say upon the subject of the amendment, by striking out the word "State." I have given my reason for that. I wish to offer nothing more upon that point, and if the merits of the section cannot be discussed now, I shall not occupy the floor any longer. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. It has just come to the knowledge of the Chair, that the section now under consideration is a section that was inserted by the Committee of the Whole, and con. ctrred in by the Convention. That being the case, it would not be in order, according to the rule which has heretofore prevailed, to amend, except by reconsidering the vote by which the Convention concurred. Therefore, the amendment offered by the gentleman from Montgomery [Mr. Rice], is out of order, unless he shall first move to reconsider the vote by which the section was concurred in. Mr. RICE. Then, sir, if the amendment is not in order, I withdraw it. Mr. ARCHER. Mr. President: I would be glad to have a little more light thrown upon this section. As it novw stands, viewed in- the light of the amendment offered by the gentleman from Mc~enryr [Mr. Church], and adopted by the Convention, it appears to me that the two provisions fixs different periods of time. ~Mr. CRAIG. Mr. President: I would inquire what is the question before the Convention?9 The PRESIDENT, pro tempers. The question is upon,;the adoption of section eight. M~r. CRAIG. I would inquire if it was not adopted when we had the -section under consideration bsfore? 8 8 t f s t 8 I e 8 s y e e CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION Fi-cIDAY, 1554 API 29 180 EAE DPRCEIG.15 tion has concurred in amendments of the Committee of the Whole, they cannot be opened except by reconsideration Nei t ther can any amendment or substitute be offered. Mr. BROWNING. Mr. President: I may be mistaken in my recollection, but I am of the opinion that the practice of the President has been to receive a substi tute for a section, notwithstanding amend ments made by the Committee of the Whole to the section may have been con curred in by the Convention. I raise no point of order, but only give this as my recollection of our former practice. The Secretary read section eight, as amended, as follows: SEC. 8. All laws fixing the fees of State, county and township officers, shall terminate with the terms respectively of the incumbents who may be in office at the meeting of the first General Assembly after the adoption of this Constitution; and the General Assembly shall, by general law, uniform in its operation, provide for and regulate the fees of said officers and the successors to said officers, so as to reduce the same to a reasonable compen sation for services actually rendered. But the General Assembly may, by general law, classify the counties by population into not more than three classes, and regulate the fees ac cording to class. This article shall not be construed as depriving the General Assembly of the power to reduce the fees of existing officers. Mr. WAIT. Mr. President: There is no previous question upon this proposition. The section has been concurred in, and that is its adoption. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The section is before the Convention for'adoption. The motion of Mr. Wendling, for the previous question, was agreed to, and the main question ordered. Section eight, as amended, was agreed to. oThe Secretary read section nine, as follows: Ssc. 9. The county affairs of Cook county shall be managed by a board of commissioners of fifteen persons, ten of whom shall be elected from the city of Chicago, and five from towns outside of said city, in such manner as may be provided by law. Mr.. r cDOWELL. Mr. President: I move to strike out the section. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The motion is not in order. The result desired by the gentleman from White [Mir. McDowell] can only be reached by a reconsideration. Section nine was agreed to. o Mr. SCHOLFIELD. Mr. President: I move the adoption of the following additional section. - The Secretary read the section offered by Mr. Scholfield, as follows: At the time this Constitution is submitted to a vote of the people, the folloying artic'e shall be submitted separately, and if a majority of those voting upon the question shall vote in favor of the article, then the same shall become a part of this Constitution, instead of the section adopted as a part of this Constitution upon that subject, but otherwise said section shall not be a part of this Constitution. i - SEC.-. No county seat shall be removed until the point to which it is proposed to be removed shall be fixed by law, and a majority of the voters of the county shall have voted in favor of its removal to such point: Provided, That in all cases where a county seat has been established, or may hereafter be established twelve years or more, and in all c ases where a vote has been, or may hereafter be taken to remove a county seat, and it is decided in the negative, and a subsequent effort is made to remove to the same point, or to some other point within thi ree miles there. of, three-fifths of all the legal voters in the county shall vote in favor of the proposition in order to authorize a removal of the county seat. Buit this proviso shall not apply to counties where the county seat is sou.ght to be removed is located more than nine miles from the geographical center of the county. Mr. SCHOLFIELD. Mr. President: The difference between this proposition and the propositions which have already been passed upon by this Convention, is, that this contemplates simply that the q'uestion shall be left to the people for the'r adoption or rejection. Inasmuch as the entire question has been thoroughly argued on both sides, I move the previous question upon the section. Mr. SEDGWICK. If this should not be ratified by the people, would the section already adopted be in force? Mr. SCHOLFIELD. Yes, sir. Mr. ALLEN, of Alexander. I wish to say a few words on that subject. Mr. SCHOLFIELD. I shall insist on the previous question. Mr. DEMENT. I move to lay the proposition on the table. The yeas and nays were ordered, and being taken, resulted yeas, 33; nays, 31 as follows: The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The Convention, before concurring in amend ments of the Committee of the Whole, put sections through in their or der, and upon all the sections being gone through with, they have been taken up in their ,order for final adoption. The Convention is now engaged in considering the adoption of section eight, which is not subject to amendment, being a section originating in the Committee of the Whole, and concurred in by the Convention. Mr. ARCHER. Mr. President: It seems to me the object of the section is accomplished without the adoption of the amendment offered by the gentleman from McHenry [Mr. Church], (if I understand both propositions as they stand now) as that the two together, fix different periods of time, when these special laws shall become inoperative. The amendment offered by the gentleman from McHenry [Mr. Church] provides that all these fees provided for by special law, shall cease upon the adoption of this Constitution, and that officers, from that time forward, shall only receive .such fees as are provided by general law. Section eight provides that all laws, general and special, fixing the fees of State, county and township officers, shall terminate with the term of the incurllbents in office, at the meeting of the first General Assembly after the adoption of this Constitution. It is the object, as I suppose, of the amendment offered by the gentleman from McHenry [Mr. Church], to, from- and after the adoption of this Constitution, abrogate all those special laws, and to permit fees to only be received under a general law. Section eight provides a different period of time when these special laws shall cease, and extends it beyond the adoption of this Constitution, from the fact that many of these officers will then be in office, their term not having expired. It appears that the two provisions fixes different periods of time when these laws shall cease. Mr. WAIT. I rise to ascertain what the condition of this section is. As I understand it, the section was introduced in Committee of the Whole and- concurred in by this Convention. If that is the case, my substitute would not be in order. I inquired of the Chair if it was in order at the time I presented it, and the Chair ruled it was in order but the Chair was not informed as to the facts in relation to this sectionl. If it is not now in order 1 do not expect its adoption, though I think it is far superior to the section as it is, and desire to take the sense of this Convention upon that question. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The Chair has already stated that the amendment will be in order only, by moving to reconsider the vote by which the Conven~tion concurred.' Mr. WENDLING#. I move the previous question. Mr. BROWNING. Mr. President: I wish to know whether a substitute for the section is not in order, notwithstandinlg the amendments to the section have been concurred in by the Convention? The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The~ Chair -understands very distinctly that the rule, as enforced by the President, has been uniformly, that where the Convert YEAS. Abbott, Eldredge, Allen of Alx'n, Gamble, Allen of Crf'd, Goodell, Anthony, Goodhue, Archer, Hankins, Atkins, Hart, Bryan, Harwood, Buxton, HIay, Cody, McCoy, Coolbaugh, Parker, Dement, Peirce, wBSENT, OR NOT VOTING. Bromwell, Haines of Cook, Robinson, Brown, t Hanna, Sedgwick, Cameron, Hayes, Snyder, Cary, King, Truesdale, Ellis, Neece, Wright, English, Pillsbury, Mr. President-19. Fox, . So the motion of Mr. Dement to lay on the table the additional section offered by Mr. Scholfield, was agreed to. Mr. WENDLING. tIr. President: I desire to deta'n the Convention but a very few minutes with a proposition which I will offer, and, in order to consume as little time as possible, I will, afer giving my reasons for offering it, move to lay it upon the table, and take the sense of the Convention upon it. I will read it, and, if the Convention favor the proposition, I will move to fill the blank with such a number as will be satisfactory to the friends of the measure. It is as follows: The General Assembly may provide for the election of a justice of the peace in all towns containing - population, and confer upon the said justices jurisdiction in actions of debt, assumpsit, trover, replevin and treaspass, either to person or personal property, where the amount claimed, or value of the property in controversy, does not exceed five h,, ntt.-,r tni l 1... APP.IL. 29, 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1555 Rice, Sharp, 1, Sutherland, Tincher, Turner, Vandeventer, Wait' Wall' Wa,,hburn, Wheaton, Wilson-33. NAY$. Raines of Llk.,Scholfield, I-Iildrup, Sherrill, McDowell, Skinner', Medill, I Springer, Merriam, Tubbs, Moore, Underwood, Parks Wa,&ner, Perly, Wells,' Poage Wendl!nZ. ,Ross, Whitin-31, Anderson, Bayne, Benjamin, Bowinai,i, Browning, Church, Craig, C r o,-, s, Cummings, Forman,, Fuller, f 155 C(~SJUI~A OOYN O FRIAY . Every person who is elected or appointed to any office in this State, who Lhall be paid in whole or in part by fees, shall be required by law to make a semi-annual report to some officer, to be designated by law, of ail his fees and emoluments. Mr. FOX. Mr. President: I move to lay the additional section on the table. i Mr. ANTHONY. Mr. President: I call for the yeas and nays. Mr. ALLEN, of Crawford. Mr. President: I ask to have the section read. The Secretary read the additional section offered by Mr. Wagner, as follows: Every person who is elected or appointed to any office in this State, who shall be paid in whole or in part by fees, shall be required by law to make a semi-annual report to some officer, to be designated by law, of all his fees and emoluments. The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The question is on the motion of the gentleman from Schuyler [Mr. Fox] to lay on the table the additional section offered by Mr. Wagner., The yeas and nays were ordered, and being taken, resulted-yeas, 26; nays, 32 as follows: I offer this, sir, in the discharge of what I conceive to be my duty as a representative of many citizens upon th is floor. I did not par ticipate in the contest upon the first section of this article upon counties, for the reason that I could add ano streng th to those who favored it, nor assist the op posi tion. There being only fif teen vo tes in the Co nve n ation in fa vor of what is term e d the new county movement, I could not, by any possibility, have affected the resu l t, but standing her e' as the prpresentativ e of th e wh ole people, I e arnestly desire to affeord relief to the class of citizens fo r whom the measure provides. Mr. ROSS. Mr. President: What is the question? The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. An additio nal section offered by the gentleman from Sh elby [Mr. Wendling]. Mr O. ROSS. Mr. Presiden t: I thougiht the gentleman was discussing the question of counties. Mr. WENDLING. No, sir. Mr. ROSS. Mr. Pres ident: I w ould like to hear the section read. T he Secret a ry read the additional scction, offered by Mr. Wendling, as follows: The General Assembly may provide for the election of a justice of the peace in all towns containing- - population, and confer upon the said justices jurisdiction in actions of d ebt, alsumpsit, trover, replevin and trespass, eithe r to p e i son or personal property, where the amount claimed or value of the property in controversy does not exceed five hundred dollars. Mr. WENDLING. Mr. President. As I was remarking, when interrupted by the gentleman from Fulton [Mr. Ross], I ofter that simply because I am requested to do so by a class of citizens I represent, and because I believe it is just. They feel, residing as they do, upon the outskirts of a large county, that they should be relieved from mans of the inconveniences imposed upon them by being at too great aI distance from the county seat. They feel, being obliged to go a distance of thirty or thirty-five miles, that the inconvenience ought, if possible, to be rem edied. Representing their wishes, I, in good faith, offer that proposition, and in order to take the sense of the Convention, I move to lay it upon the table. In case that motion does not prevail, and I hope it will not prevail, I shall take steps to secure its adoption. It is a fair proposition, a just measure, and will go far towards diminishing the great inconvenience I have mentioned. I shall not discuss the question further until I learn the feeling of the Convention. Mr. ROSS. Mr. President: I call for the previous question. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The previous question does not apply. Mr.:ROSS. I call for the yeas and nays, Mr. President. The PRESIDENT, pro tempose Is -the cdll seconded? The yeas and nays are not ordered. The question is on the motion of the gentleman from Shelby [Mr. Wendling], to lay his additional section the table. The motion of Mr. Wendling, to lay the additional section on the table) was agreed to. Mr. WAGNER. ]Kr. President: I offer an additional section. The Secretary read the additional sectionr offered by Mr. Wagingr as follows:~ YEAS, Abbott, Goodhue, Sedgwick, Allen of Alex,IainesofLake,Sherrill, Anthony, Hart, Snyder, Archer, Harwood, Skinner, Bayne, I-Iildrup, Sutherland, Benjamin, McCov, Tincher, Bowman, Merriam, Tubbs, Bryan, Moorer Turner, Buxton, Parker, Underwood, Church, Parks, Vandeventer, Craig, Perley, Wagner, Cross, Peirce, Washburn, Dement, Poage, Wendling, Eidredge, Rice, Wheaton, Fuller, Ross, Whiting-. Goodell, Allen of Cr'fd,Fox, Anderson, Gamble, Browning, Hankins, Cody, Hay, Cummings, McDowell, Forman, Atkins, English, Robin son, Bromwell, Haines of Co'k,Scholfield, Brown, Hanna, Springer, Cameron, Hayes, Truesdale, Cary, King, Wall, Coolbaugh, Neece, Wright, Ellis, Pillsbury, Mr. President-21. So the additional section offered by Mr. Wagner, as amended, was agreed to. aMr. SKINNER. M1r. President: I desire to offer an additional section, a nd ask the privilege of expressing my reasons for it. The Secretary read the additional section, offered by Mr. Skinner, as follow&: Cities of over fifty thousand inhabitants may be created into counties: Provided, a majority of the legal voters of the county vote for the same. Mr. SKINNER. Mr. President: The amendment is offered simply for this pur— pose. Cities are growing up in this State very rapidly. What twenty or twentyfive years may produce in the population of these cities no one can tell, nor the conditions that may surround any of them, nor the necessity for the creation of counties composed of cities as is the case in many of the States of the Union. I have read the article on counties and it seems to me that such a provision is essential, that the General Assembly may, in future time, provide for such wants and necessities, if the public interests require it. With these suggestions, I submit the question. Mr. GOODELL. Mr. President: I move to lay the section on the table. The yeas and nays were ordered, and being taken, resulted-yeas, 31, nays, 32 -as follows: So the motion of Mr. Fox, to lay on the table the additional section offered by Mr. Wagner, was not agreed to. Mr. DEMENT. Mr. President: I suggest to the gentleman from Carroll [Mr. Wagner] to modify his proposition, so that the report shall be made under oath. Mr. WAGNER. Mr. President: I accept the amendment, and move the previous question. The motion for the previous question was agreed to, and the main question ordered. The Secretary read the additional section offered by Mr. Wagner, as follows: motion ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~Evr ofso tho Bejais Mlected orpappointe Every person who is elected or appointed to any office in this State who shall be paid in whole or in part by fees, shall be required by law to make a semi-annual report, under oath, to some officer to be designated by law, of all his fees and emoluments. The yeas and nays were ordered. The Secretary proceeded to call the roll. Mr.WELLS (when his name was called) NAYS. Dement, Skinner, Forman, Turner, Fox, Underwood, Haines of Ike,Vandeventer, CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION 1 5 Irl, 6 FF.IDAY,L said: Air. President: I desire to'explain 11 my vote. ["Object."] I vote "No. The result was then announced-yeas 46, uays 16-as follows.: NA-YS. Medill, Sharp, Wait, Wells, Wilson6. ABSENT, OR NOT'VOTING. TEAS. Allen of Crfd. Anderson, Atkins, Bowman, Browning, Cody, Cummings, Forman, Fox, Fuller, Gainble, Goodell, Hankins, Hay, McDowell, Medill, Parker, Rice, Ross. Sharp, Snyder, Turner, Vandeventer, Wells, Wendliino. Wilson-6. N.LYS. Abbott' Anthony, Archer, Bayne, Benjamin Bryan, Buxton, Church, Craig Cross: Dement, Eldredge, Haines of Llk, Hart, Harwood, Hildrup, McCoy, Merriam. -LMoore, . Parks, Perley, Peirce,. Poage, Sedgwick, Sherrill, Springer, Sutherland, Tincher, Tubbs, Wagn6r, Whburn, Whitiiig-32. JLBSENT, OR NOT'VOTING. I Allen of Alex.,I-Ialnes of Colk kinner, Bromwell, Hanna, Truesdale, Brown, Hayes, Underwood, Cameron, King, wait, Cary, Neece, Wall, Coolbaugh, Pillsbury, Wheaton Ellis, Robinson Wright, English, Scholfield: Mr. Presideat-2,5. Goodhue, . YEA$. Goodhue, Hart, - Hay" Hi'dr,i, M.dill Merii-tm, Parker, Parks, Peirc6. lloagel Abbott, A.nthony, Atkins, Bayne, Benjamin, Cary, Church, Coolhaugh, Fuller, - Gamble, Qoodell, I RICO Ross, Sed —wick, Shrrill, Spr' ger, "I Sutherland, Tincher, Tubbs, Wagner, Wail —3f. Allen, of Alx. Anderson, Archer, Bowman, DEBATES AND PROOEEDINGS. Buxton, Hanna, Vandeventer, Cameron, Hayes, Wells, Cody, King, Wendling, Ci'oss, Nee(e, Wright, Dement, PilJ.sbiury, Mr. Presideiit-23. rEis, Robinson, CSo the motion of Mir. Cary to lay oni the table the section,ifered )y Mr. Skiuner, as amnended, was agreed to. Mr. TURINER. I move the article now be referred to the Committee on Revision and Adjustment. The motion was agreed to. [The following is the article as referred to the Committee on Revision and Adjustment]. dred dollars in counties onotaining th irty and not exce eding fifty thousand inhabitants; three thousand dollars in counties containi ng fifty and not exceeding seventy thousand in habitants; thirty-five hundred dollars in coun. ties containing ceventy and not exceeding one hundsred thousand inhlabitants; and four thousand doll ars in oulnties containing over. one hund red th ous and and not exceed. ing two hundred and fifty thousand inhab itanats, and not more than one thousand dollars additional salary for each additional one hundred thousand inhabitants: Provided, That the compensation of no officer shall be increased or diminished during his term of office. All fees or allowances by them re ceived, in excess of their said compensation, shall be paid into the county treasury. SEC. 7. The fees of each class of county officers shall be uniform in the class of counttes to which they may respectively belong. The compensation herein provided shall apply only to officers hereafter elected; but all fees established by special law, shall cease at the adoption of this Constitution; and such officers shall receive only such fees as are provided by general law. SEC. 8. All laws fixing the fees of State, county and township officers shall terminate with the terms, respectively, of the incumbents who may be in office at the meeting of the first General Assembly, after the adoption of this Constitution; and the General Assembly shall, by general law, uniform in its operation, provide for and regulate the fees of said officers and their successors, so as to reduce the same to a reasonable compensation for services actually rendered. But the General Assembly may, by general law, classify the counties by populat ion, into not more than three classes, and regulate the fees according to class. This article shall not be construed as depriving the General Assem. bly of the power to reduce the fees of existing oflicers. Simc. 9. The county affairs of Cook county shall be managed by a board of commissioners of fifteen persons, ten of whom shall be ele eted from the city of Chicago, and five from towns outside of said city, in such manner as may be provided by law. S$B. 10.' Every person who is elected or ap. pointed to any office in this State, who shall be paid in whole or in part by fees, shall be required by lass to make a semi-annual re. port, under oath, to some officer, to be designated by law, of all of his fees and emoluments. ABSEmT, OR NOT VOTING. Allen of Cwfd, Haines,of CookScleolfield, Bromwell, Hanna, hIIarp, Brown, Hayes,- Trtuesdale, Cameron, King, Wells, -E]ldredge, Neeece, Wrig ht. Ellis, Pillsbury, Mr. President-20. English, Robinson, So the motion of Mr. Goodell to lay upon the table the additional secti)D, offered by Mr. Skinner, was not agreed to. The Secretary read the section offer ed by Mr. Skinner, as follows: Cities of over fifty thousand inhabitants may be created into counties: Provided, a majority of the legal voters of the county vote for the same. Mr. WHEATON. Mr. President: I call for the previous questi,-n. Mr. ROSS. Sulppose that there is a city of more than fifty thousand inhabi rants? Mr. SKINNER. I aim willing that it should be decided by a vote,)f the coln. ty. I will prepare an amendment to the section. Mr. WHEA_ TON.'%r. Presidenit: For the sake of the amendment, I wiltl with draw lily motion for the previous question... Mr. SKINNER. Mr. President: I will now offer the section, with an ainetd. ment. The Secretary read the section offered by Mr. Skinner, as amended by himself, as follows: Cities of over fifty thousand inhabitants may be created into counties: Provided, a maJority of the legal voters of the county, exclusive of votes of cities, vote for the same. Mr TINCHIER. Mr. President: I call for the previous question. Mr. CARY. Mr. President: I move to lay the amendment on the table. Mr. SKINNER. Is tile previous qttes. tion now denmanded? The PRESID)ENT, pro tempore. It i, demandcd; and the gentlen)itl fromu Jo Daviess [Mr. Cary], moves to lay the section, with pending amendments, on the table. The yeas and i)ays were ordered, and, being taken, resulted —yeas 41, nays 19, -as follows: ARTICLE-. COUNTIES. SECTION 1. No new county shall be formed or establisbed by the General Assenmbly, which will reduce the counity or counties, or either of them, from which it shal I be taken, to less contents than four hundred sq tare miles (but cities having a population of tswo hund-(ed thlousasd or more, may b)e organized into a separate count,y), nor shall sapy couiitv o nty be fornimed of less conteits; nor shall any line thereof pass within less thniu ten miles of any county seat of thte count;y or cotmtlies pro posed to be divided. sSEc(. 2. No coit'ty shall be divided, or have any part sti,rcken witeifrom withoat submi tI ting the quest ion to a vo'te ofthe people of the county, nor uipless a matli ity of all t he legalf voters of til,e county, vo; ing on the qiuestion, shall vote for the samiie. SEac. 3. TItehre sball be Po territor y sri k an from aily county, iioless a majm.ityv of the vo ters lit inig i'n s:ach territory s'asll peuiit,i)n fo t such division; and n, tferritory st,all be ald-d to an ouu. ii'ho,' t'lie cojset of the nia jori.,y of the voters ot i.he coan y to wliicii it is piroposd t, he ialded. 1 ut the portion so t,i Neken of and added to ano,her county, or forir)ed in wbolc or In part into a.new county, shall be holden for, aitl oblige d to pay its proportion of ihe indebte(ln,ss of the county from wlhi( ti it has been taken. SEC. 4. No county seat shall be removed i unntil the poaint to which it is proposed to be I -removed shall obe fixed in pursuance of la w, and a majority of the voters of the countv, to be ascertained in such manner as shall be provided by general law, shall have v,)tcd in favor of its r emoval to suchl point: Provided, 'That no person shall vote on such question who has not resided in the county six months, and in thle eleetion precinct ninetv days, next preceding such election: Provided, further, That thle question of the removal of the counIt ty seat shall not be oftener siibmitzted than once in can yea rs to a vote of the people. SEC. 5. In eachi county there shall be elect ed the fol'twing colinty officers: C(ounty judge, sher'iff county clerk, clerk of the cir culit court, (wiho may lIe ex oJbio recorder of dceds, except in all counties having s;xty thousand and more inhabitants, in which counties a recorder of deeds shall be elected, at the general election in 1.$2), treasurer, sIir veyor and coroner, each of whom shall enter upon the duties of their office, respectively, on the first Morday of December after their election; and they shall hold their respective offices fotr the term of four years, except the office of treasurer, sheriff and coroner, who shall hold their offices for two years,and until their successors shall be elected and qualified. There shall also be elected in each county, one or more masters in chancery, who shall hold his or their office for two years, and whose compensation shall be fixed by law: Provided that the masters in chancery in office at the adoption of this Constitution, shall hold until the expiration of the terms for which they were respectively appointed. SEc. 6. The county board shall Aix the compensation of all county officers, with the amount of their necessary clerk hiie, stationery, fuel, and in all cases where fees are provided for, the said compensation shall be paid only out of, and shall in no instance exceed the fees actually collected; they shall not allow either of them more per annum than fifteen hundred dollars, in counties not exceeding twenty thousand inhabitants; two thousand dollars in counties containing twenty and not exceeding B thirty thousandinhabitants; twenty-five hun Goodhue, Hart, Harwood, XBay, Hildrup, McDowell, Medill, Merr-iam, Moore, Parks, Peirce, Poage, Rice, Ross, ABSENT OR NOT VOTING. Bromwell, English, Scholfield, Brown, HamnesofCook,Truesdale, 990 I II I I APRIL 29, 1870. 1557 Browning, Bryan, Buxton, - Cody, Cra!tg, Cro, 5, Cummius, Hankins, Ilarwood, McCoy, McDowell, I Moore Perley: Snydet-, Wait., Wai3'fibiirn, Wetidling, Wheatoii, Whitia,,,,, Wilson32. ORDEP. OF BUSINESS. iMr. ALLEN, of Alexander. Mr. President-: I i-n(sve to take up the report of the Conim ttee upon Bill of Rights, which was made the speci(-tl order yesterday. The report was made several days ,,ago. The article is somewhat long, and I Am desirous it sliall be taken up and acted upon. -I. hnpe it will not provoke a great deal of discussion, and that. the, committee will be able to get along with it, without delay, I do not wish to go into Committee of the Whole upon it, but to be considered in the Convention. Mr. CARY.'tdr. President: I move to amend the motion of the gentleman from Alexander [Mr. Allen], by taking up the article on warehouses. I think it will take but a short time. As some of the delegates from Cook county are going away to-night, and as they are better acquainted with this sub ect than,,me of the rest of us, I. desire to take up the article now. Mr. HAY. Mr. President: My impression is that the revenue article was to be taken up, after tl-re disposition of the county artic.e. Mr. HAINES, of lake. Mr. Presi. dent: Some members of the Convention are not here who would like to be.here when that article is taken up. I wotild suggest that some other question be taken up at this time. Mr. SN YDER. It is the business of Sedgwick Stiarp, She,ritit, Snyd.ei-, s' pringer, Stittiei-land, Ti-ncb.or, - Tubbs, WaL,Uer, wayt Wall, Washburn, Wil,son-41. Abbott, A,nd.erson, AuthoD.y, Atk!Ds, Bayne, Benjamii3, Bowman, Cary, Church, Coolbaugh, IForman, Fuller, Gamb'e, Goodell, NATS. Eldredge, Perley, -,' Fox, Skinner, Raines of LakeTurner, Hankins, Underwood, McCoy Whiting, Parker', Wheaton-19. Allen, of kl ex. Allen of Crfd. Archer, Browniing, Bryan, Craig, Cummings, 1558 COST1TUTIOAL COYETJOX FIDAY, these rights and the protection of property, S governments are instituted among men, de- o riving their just powers from the consent of the governed. Szc. 2. No person shall be deprived of life, liberty or property without due process of, law. c SEc. 3. The free exercise and enjoyment of e religious professions and worship, without discrimination, shall forever be allowed in this State; and no person shall be denied any civil or political rights, privilege or capacity on account of his religious opinions; but the liberty of conscience hereby secured shall not be so construed as to dispense with oaths or affirmations, excuse acts of licentiousness, or justify practices inconsistent with the peace. and safety of the State. SF~c. 4. No person shall be compelled to at tend or support any ministry or place of wor ship against his consent, nor shall any prefer ence be given by law to any religious denomi nation or mode of worship. SEc. 5. Every person may freely speak, write and publish his sentiments on all sub jects, being responsible lor the abuse of that liberty, and in all trials for libel, both civil and criminal, the truth when published with good motives and for justifiable ends. shall be sufficient defense to the person charged. o SEtc. 6. The right of trial by jury, as here tofore enjoyed, shall remain inviolate; but the General Assembly may authorize the trial of civil cases before justices of the peace by a jury of less than twelve men. SEc. 7. The right of the people to be se cure in their persons, houses, papers and ef fects against unreasonable searches and seiz ures, shall not be violated; and no warrant shall issue without probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation particularly describing the place to be searched and the persons or A e Aqg.s to be seized. Sgc. 8. All persons shall be bailable by sufficient sureties, unless for capital offen ses, where the proof is evident or the presump tion great; and the privilege of the writ of habeas corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in cases of rebellion or invasion the pub lic safety may require it. SEc. 9. No person shall be held to answer for a criminal offense, unless on an indictment of a grand jury, except in cases of petit lar-. ceny and offenses less than felony, in which the punishment is by fine and imprisonment otherwise than in the penitentiary, in cases of impeachment, and in cases arising in the army and navy, or in the militia when in actual service in time of war or public danger. SEC. 10. In all criminal prosecutions the accused shall be allowed to appear and defend in person and with counsel; to demand the nature and cause of the accusation against him, and to have a copy thereof; to meet the -witnesses face to face, and to have compul sory process to procure the attendance of wit nesses in his behalf, and a speedy-public trial by an impartial jury of the county or district in which the offense is alleged to have been committed. SEc. 11. No person shall be compelled in that he Cnvenion o no adjurn. any criminal case to give evidence againstamnmn oftegnlmnfoMThe moton wasnot agred to.himself, or be twice put in jeopardy for theHer[M.Cuc]tarilseod BILL OF RIGIITS..same offense. TeSceayra ril eod n SEc. 12. All penalties shall be proportionMr~ ALEN, f Aleander Mr. res-ed to the nature of the offense, the trtue de-' h mnmn hrt,ofrdb r iden: I ouldlik to ave rtice ~ sign of all punishment being to reform, not Cuc,a olw SEc. 13. No Conviction shall work corrup-ARIL II The PREIDENT, ro tempre. Thetion of blood or forfeiture of estate; nor shall Th pwr oftegvrmn ofti repot ofthe ommitee n th Bil ofany person be transported out of this StateSttardiieinotredtitdeat Righs, rtile wo nd atice treearefor uy offense committed within the same. mns h eiltv,eeuie n ui before the Convention.Sac. 14. No person shall be imprisoned for ca,adn esno olcio fpros now ~~~~~~~~~debt, unless upon refusal to deliver up hisbenonofteedprmnssaleecs [~Pherepot of he Cmmitte onBillestate fo~r the benefit of his creditors, in suchanpoeprpryblnigteihroth of Rights isas follows:]manner as shall be prescribed by law, or inotesexetsheenfeexrsldiet cases where there is strong presumption of e rpritd ARTICLE IL ~~~fraud. -[mnmn fee yM.Cuc. The owes o thegovrnmnt o ths Sate Sac. 15. Private property shall not be taare ivied ntothre dstict epatmets-ken or damaged for' public use without j ust Wihpwr hl eeecsd ujc theleisltie,exeutveandjuical ndnocompensation. Such compensation, when awy oteCnttto fteUie peron r clletio o peson, bingoneofnot made by the State, shall be ascertained Sae,a h urm aro h ad thes deartmnts shll eercse ay pwerby a jury, or by not less than three commis- M.WSBR. M.Peiet proerl beongng o ethe oftheothrs,sioners, appointed by a court of record, asdontwstomk aspeho th excpt s hreiaftr epreslydircte orshall be prescribed'by law. The fee of landam dm permitted. ~~~~~~taken for railroad tracks, without consent ofutbuI ugsthtiwol ARTICLE III. ~the owners thereof, shall remain in r such b uhbte lcdi tahdt h O~~ RIGHTS. ~ owners, subject to the use for which it is takenCosiuinothUntdSae,ta BILL ~~~~~Sac. 16. The General Assembly shall not t h osiuino lios SacTox. Al mn ae bynatre reeandpass any ex post facto law, or law impairing MrWHAO. M.PeietI indpenent an hae crtan ihernt ndthe obligation of contracts, nor make anyunesadtegnlmnfo Alxertyandthepuruitof hppf!es. T seuremunities.de[M.Alntoug(tta, sth members to be here. - We cannot be detained her e all the spring and summer, becaus e of absent memb ers. . Mr. CODY. Mr. President: I hope there will be no objection to taking up the report of the Committee upon Bill of Rights, for the reason that to do so will facilitate the work of the Committee upon Revision, and of the Convention itself. It is one of the first articles to be considered in the arrangement of the Consti -tution, by the committee, and time will be saved by disposing of this report at once. Mr. McCOY. Mr. President: The report of the Committee on Warehouses was set down to be considered in connec tion with the railroad report and eminent domain. I would suggest that we had better take up some of these single questions, upon which there is less "fight," in common parlance, than upon the warehouse question. Mr. ROSS. Mr. President: I move the previous question on the various propositions now before the Convention. Mr. ANTHONY (in his seat). Whatever they are I The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The question is on the motion of the gentleman from JoDaviess [Mr. Cary] amending the motion of the gentleman from Alexander [Mr. Allen]. The previous question is demanded. The motion for the previous question was agreed to, and the main question ordered! The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The question is on the amendment offered by the gentleman from JoDaviess [Mr. Cary], that the Convention take up the report of the Committee on Warehouses. The amendment offered by Mr. Car, was not agreed to. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The question is on the motion of the gentleman from Alexander [Mr. Allen] that the Convention now take up the report of the Committee on Bill of Rights. The motion of Mr. Allen, of Alexander, was agreed to. Mr. HAY. Mr. President: I ask to have the report distributed. ADJOURNoIlENT. Mr. FOX. Mr. President: I move that the Convention do now adjourn. The motion was not agreed to. BILL OF RIGITS. Mr. ALLEN, of Alexander. Mr. President: I would like to have article II distributed too, as well as article III. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The report of the Committee on the Bill of Rights, article two and article three are now before the Convention. ['rhe report of the Committee on Bill of Rights is as follows:] ARTICLE II. The powers of the government of this State are divided into three distinct departmentsthe legislative, executive and judicial, and no person or collection of persons, being one of these departments, shall exercise any power properly belonging to either of the others, except as hereinafter expressly directed or permitted. ARTICLE III. oI BILL OFI RIGHTS. SECTION 1. All men are by nature free and independent, and have certain inherent and inalienable rights; among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happfiess. To secure I CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION FP.IDA-Y I 1558 SEC. 17' The military shall be in strict subordination to the civil power. SEC. 18. No soldier shall, in time of peace, be quartered in any house, without the consent of tti e owner; nor in time of war, except in the manner prescribed t)y law. SEC. 19. The people have the right to assemble together in a peaceable manner, to consult for the common good, to make known their opinions to their representatives, and to apply for redress of grievances. SEC. 20. All. elections shall be free and equal. SEC. 21. FverV person within this State ought to find a certain remedy in the laws, for all injuries or wrongs which he may receive -in his person, property or character. He ought to obtain riaht and justice freelv. and without being bliged to purchase iC completely and without denial; i,romptly and without delay, comformably to the laws. SEC. 22. A frequent recurrence to the fundamental principles of civil Government i's absolutely necessary to preserve the blessings of liberty. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The question is'Upon the adoption of article second, and first, upon the amendment offered by Mr. Church. The Secretar read article two and the amendment thereto, offered by Mr. Church, as follows: ARTICLE II. The powers of the government of this State are divided into three distinct departments: the legislative, executive and judicial, and no person or collection of persons, being one of these departments, shall exercise any power properly belonging to either of the others, except as hereinafter expressly -directed or permitted. [Amendment offered by Mr. Church.] Which powers shall be exercised, subject always to the Constitution of the United States, is the supreme law of the land. Mr. ALLEN, of Alexander. Mr. Presii tent: I do not see the honorable delegate from McHeurV rMr. Church], who offered this amendment, in his seat. I understand, without being authorized to expressly state so, that he will not insist upon this amendment, as it is perfectly clear that the,powers here distributed are in subordination to the Constitution of the United States, without the insertion of the words of this amendment. With a view of saving time I suggst that this amendment be passed over informally, until the delegate from McHenry [Mr. Church] shall come in. I mo've the adoption, of the article. The PRESIDENT, pro tenzpore. The question is now on the adoption of the amendment of the gentleman from McHenry [Mr. Church] to article second. The Secretary read article second, and the amehclment thereto, offered by Mr. Church, as follows: ARTICLE II. The -powers of the overnment of this State are divided into three dirtinet departments: Thelegislative,executive,ajadjudicial, and no person or collect! on of persos, being one of these departments shall exercise any 1)ower properly belonging to either of the others, except as hereinafter expressly C,.irected or permitted. .[,kmendment offered by Mr. Church.] Which powers shall be exercised, subject always to the Constitution of the United States, as the supreme lay of the laud. Mr. WASHBURN..,Ur. President: I do not wish to make a speech on the amendment, but I suggest, that it would be much better placed if attached to the Constitution ofthe United States, than to the Constitutolon of Illinois. Mr. WHEATON. Mr. President: I understand the gentleman from Alexaader (Mr. Alleul to sua, ett that, as the -9 APRIL 29, 1870. DEBATES AXI) 1'ROCEEDIGS. 159 Mr. BENJAMIN. Mr. President: It seems to me that the words "by nature" express everything that is expressed by the language employed by the gentleman from Woodford [Mr. Bayne]. The declaration that all men are created equal, and endowed by their Creator, etc., is expressed, simply, by the two words "by nature." Moreover, I would say that this form of expression is found in several of the Constitutions of the United States. It is not an innovation. Mr. ROSS. Mr. President: I would inquire of the gentleman from Alexander [Mr. Allen] if it would hot be as well to say "all persons" instead of "all men?" Mr. ALLEN, of Alexander. It was s upposed, Mr. President, that "all men" 'included all persons. Mr. ROSS. Then I would ask why you do not say "all men," in section two? The yeas and nays were ordered, and being taken, resulted-yeas 20, nays 46 -as follows: gentleman from Mcl-enry [Mr. Church] is not present this amendment be passed over informallty with the understanding that the gentleman can renew it. The PRESIDENT, repro tempore. If there is no objection the amendment will be passed over with tha t under standing. T he q ues tion is on the adoption of arti- n cle second, an d it is declared adopted. The Convention will, with the understandin g stated, pass to article third, ae-d the question will be on ec on section first. The Secretary rea d section one of articl e thi rd as follows: SECTION 1. All men are by natur e free and independent, and hav e c ert ain inherent and inalienable rights —-amongthese are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. To secure these rights and the protection of propertv, governments are instituted anong men, derrivingo eimtoftheir just pow e rs from the consent of the governed. Mr. SEDGWICK. Mr. President: I move to strike out the wo nrds "an d independent," after the word "free," in line first, for the reason that I do not believe that all men are iddependent. They are not independent of the overruling power abov e them, and they are not independent of each other; but, on the contrary, we are dependent-from the cradle to the grave. In fact, man is one of the most dependent beings in existence. We are dependent every day upon each other all through life, and after death, dependent upon man to perform the last sad rites that can be performed for poor human nature. to-wit: a decent burial. I do not propose to subscribe to the doctrine that all men are independent either of God or man, for it is an infidel sentiment, and ought not to be tolerated in a Convention that has any respect for the religious sentiment of the people. Mr. ARCHER. Mr. President: I move to lay the amendment of the gentleman from DeKalb [Mr. Sedgwick] upon the table. The motion was agreed to. Mr. BAYNE. Mr. President: I move to strike out the first and second lines, and insert the following. The Secretary read the amendment offered by Mr. Bayne, as follows: All men are created equal; that they are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights; that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Mr. BAYNE. Mr. President: That is the identical language of the preamble of the Declaration of Independence.'The language that I have asked to be stricken out is almost similar in form, but not similar in fact. This language, sir, was the language that touched the heart of every man throughout the civilized world who loved liberty and loved happiness, when our fathers assembled and attempted to establish a government. From time immemorial, monarchs and emperors, potentates, of the world had held that kings ruled by right divine, and that one class of men was born into the world, booted and spurred for the purpose of riding rough shod over the balance of mankind. But our fathers set out upon the principle that all men were created equal. Upon that grand principle they were permitted to triumph, and our government has existed to the present day. This is language, sir, dear to the heart of every American freeman, and it will do no one any injury to' put it into the Constitution. I ask that the amendment be adopted. a the contrary, it isn broad enou gh to cover everythi ng, and embr ace' ever y human being. Mr. HAINES, o f Lake. The gentlemar can exceptrCo ok county. [Laughter]. Mr. CHURCH. I do'not desire to do it. I wish the section broad enough'to include Cook county, and the delegates from Cook county, that they may be considered equally free and "independent" with all others and the'"rest of man. kind." [Laughter]. Mr. ARCHER. Mr' President: I move to lay-the amendment on the table. Mr. SEDGWICK. Mr. President: I call for the yeas and nays. The call for the yeas and nays was not seconded. The question being on the motion, of Mr. Archer to lay oD the table the amendment offered by Mr. Anthony, the motion was agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the adoption of the section. Mr. WAGNER. Mr. President: I move to strike out "independent" and insert "equal." A division was ordered. The Convention divided, when, there being Ithirteen in the affirmative and thirty-five in the negative, the motion was not agreed to. Mr. FOX. Mr. President: I move to strike out "men'} and insert "persons." Mr. BENJAMIN. Mr. President: Then, in order to be consistent, we will have to strike out the word "men," in the fourth line, and insert "persons," and then it will read,'governments are instituted among persons," etc. [Laughter]. Mr. ALLEN, of Alexander. Mr. President: I move'to lay the amendment 6ffered by the gentleman from Schuyler [Mr. Fox], on the table. The motion was agreed to. Mr. CUMMINGS. Mr. President: I move the previous question upon the adoption of the section. The motion for the;previous question was agreed to, and the main question ordered. Mr. SEDGWICK. Mr. President: I call for the yeas and nays. The call for the yeas and nays was not seconded. Section one was agreed to. The'Secretary read section two, as follows:e' SEC. 2. No 7person shall be deprived of life, liberty or property, without due p)rocess of law.~ ~["Question," "Question."]- The PRESIDENT. The question is on the adoption of the section. Section two was agreed to. Mr.' WHEATON. I move that the sections be declared by the Chair adopted, unless objections are made. The PRESIDENT, pro temnpore. The Chair by sufferance and usage of the Convention will do that, but there is no rulle on the subject. The question is on section three. The Secrefiry read- section- three, as follows: SEC. 8. The free exercise and enjoyment of religious profession and worship, without discrimination, shall forever be allowed in -this State;* and no ~person shall be denied any civil or political right, privilege or capacity, on account of his religious opinions; but toal lib ABSENT, OR NOT VOTING. Bromwell, Hanna, Poage, Brown, Iayes, Robinson, Cameron, King, Truesdale, Ellis, McDowell, Wright, English, Neece, Mr. President-17. Haines of Cook-Pillsbury, So the amendment offered by Mr. Bayne was not agreed to. Mr. ANTHONY. I move to strike out the word "independent," and insert these words, "equal in natural rights." I think that if gentlemen will consult modern constitutions, they will find but very few in which the word "independent" is found. That men "are equal in natural rights" is a proposition which I think would be universally recognized in this country, especially since the passage of the fifteenth amendment. Mr. CHURCH. I would ask the gentleman if it would not be equally recognized if they were all equal and independent? Mr. ANTHONY. The gentleman will find that the use of the word "independent," among those who have studied philosophy and theology, will raise a debatable question, as suggested by the gentleman from DeKalb fMr. Sedgwick]. Mr. CHURCH. It is evident that is the case, because we have heard of the "independents" of Cook county here all winter. We have had that question "agitated" ever since we came here. Still I do not suppose it will be a "debatable" question in reference topthis section: on AP-RIL 29, 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1.559 TEAS. Anthony, Hart, Bayne, Harwood, Crig' Merriam, Ga.l, Parks, Goodell: Perley,, Goodhue, Peirce, Raines of LakeSedg wick, WAYS. Abbott, Cummings, Allen of Alex. Dement, Allen of Clfd. Eldredge, Anderson, Forman, Archer, Fox, Atkins Fuller, Benjamin Hankins, Bowmn, Ray, Browning, Hildrup, Brvan', McCoy, BiAxton, Medill, Cary, Moore, Church, Parker, Cody, Rice, Coolbaugh, Ross, Cross, Sherrill, Tincher, Underwood, Waaner, wit, Whiting-20. Beholfield, Sharp, Snyder, Skinner, 8'pringer, Sutherland, Tubbs, Turnei, Vande-ienter, Wall. Wa.sfiburn, Wells, Wendling, Wheaton, Wilson-46. 1560 COSTITUTIOAI C()NYETIO FRIDkY, erty of conscience hereby secured shall not cise them and express thcm, the safety, licentiousness, which will deprave and be so construed as to dispense with oaths or the peace and the niorality of the State corrupt the morals of the community. affirmations, excuse acts of licentiousness, or are yet above an ma's opinion. We Our institutions a justify practices incousistent with the peace ar yet above any man oinin We Our institutions and Constitutions are or safety of the State.; have laws in reogard to the Sabb.ath and based upon and grow out of the pure Mr. IA ES,of Lake. Mr. President! the riglit of religious worship. People principles of the Christian religion, and more to strike out the word ebut" and all must be protected in their public wor- it is our duty to protect the purity and succeeding words, from section three, as aliship aud we must prevent individuals stability of our Christian liberty against being inconsistent with what precedes it from vio(lating these laws. All laws of Pagan idolatry and irreligious licentious and tending to destroy the force of the I this kind are enacted for the protection ness. secion entirely. The section will then of the oralsof the country; law. hav. SNYDER Mr. President: I wish read as foltGws: ing for their object the suppression of in- to amend the amendment further by SEc. 3. The free exercise and enjoyment ofI temperance for instance, and the various striking out the word "religious." religious profession and worship, without dis-; enactments in support of a healthy mor- In support of that motion, I wish to crimination, shall forever be allowed in this ality. submit a few remarks State; and no person shall be denied any civil All this section requires is that men Under this government, citizens are en or political right, privilege or capacity, on ac- shall exercise their religious opinions inr tirely equal in their political, social, re co* o.. such a imailer as to give others the same ligious and moral rights. A man of one If this section is good for anything, it is i)prot(tction claimed fi-r themselves. It has religion is not better than one of another good for all it calls for. If it is the ii- iiothing to do with religion, but only no matter what the faith of either f tention of the Convention to secure the provides that a nian's religious opinions them may be; neither is he better than liberty of religious worship, according sba.l be exercised in accordaoce with a one entertaining no religious beliefwhat to the dictates of every man's conscience, 1liberal tol(ratioii to all, and a (due regard ever. Though the great body of our it is just and proper- and our duty, that i to the rights of conscience of every other people are liclieversin the Christian reli ve should do so without condition. If it man. The sectieo is liberal and safe, and glion, in some fkrm or other, this is no is religion, it is religion, and it is unbe- I hope will ot~ be distirlel. more, under the fudaenta laws, a corning in us to cast this reflection upoo 1 ir. HAINES, of Lake. Mbr. President: Chistian than it is a Mohammedan govern. it, which I consider this section does. The gentlemani is speaking of men's opin iment. The great beauty of r fre i The words, asked to be stricken out, io-O. I was spea.kin,g of religion aid re- stitutions is that a Juw a Budrist, a io are these: iigius opl)il,ions. The gentleiman is speak bamimedan, or one without anyreligious Butthelibertyofconscienceherebysecured, ing of the want of religion. The man belief whatever, is as good under thelaw Sh all not be so construed as to8 dispense wit h I that sells liquor, ns he claims, to the in- as the Christiat,, andis his peer in all the oeths and arjtiose us practicesinconsistentwith jury of society, wantsreligion. rights of man. The tastes, the opinions, tiousuess, or justify practices inconsistent with ijuyC the peace or safety of the State. Mr. ALLEN, of Alexander. Mr. Pres- the habits, the customs of one who does Who ever heard that religion interfered ident: The gentleman di,cs not coiiipre- I not prt,fess belief in the Christian reli with the safety or peace of the State? If bend what I said. This section simply glen, are as much his to enjoy and to it is religion, it is religion, and tends to provides that a man shall ot exercise his i practice as are those of the Christian his, the peace and. f -fety of the State. the peace and s fety of the State. ieligious opinions in such a man iier as toi for the same purpose, and men must un We owe to religion everything we en- become licentious, with implnity, or den)v derstand that, under this free govern joy as a State, and nowit is sought to cast others the same right he demands for ment, no religious belief, however iucL aspersion on it. If it tends to destroy himself. it may accord with the opinions and the peace and safety of the State, it is Mr. TURNER. Mr.' Presid(lent: Tlhis prejudices of the majority, gives him not religion, and it is the duty of the section secures the people of the Slate, who entertains them, a patent to )c the courts so to declare. Therefore I think in the free exercise of their religious master of those who differ from him, that that these words mean too much. professions and worship, without discrim- all that can be required of any man in They are qualifying words, and restrain ination. It also provides that liberty of this country, in the enjl, yment of his the whole section, which I ask the chair- conscience shall not excuse acts of licen- opinio',)s and tastes, is that he shall not in man who reported this to consider. I tiousness or practices inconsistent wstit terfere with the like enjoyment of the think the words should be stricken out, the peace, safety and morality of tbhe rights of others. Observing this indis and leave religious worship to the faith_ State. The Psgan world is utll of reli putable rule, there is no limit whatever Mr. McDOWELL. Mr. President: I gir en. There is the religion,:f Buddha, to the full enjoyment by all men of their would ask the gentleman whether, under tbr instance, and there are various other particular tastes, practices and customs. the section as reported, the Mormons can forms of religion in tbe w,,rld, besides And no arbl)itrary standard of right and come back tc the State and practice their aChristianity, which is the rcligi,,n of the wrong cail be set up by any man or class come back to~ the State and practice theirpepefteUntd',t. religion here? people of the Uitcd S ites of men, by virtue of which he or they Mr. ALLEii, of Alexander. Mr. Pres- Mormonistim is a foi i of religion- can assume authority over the ideas and ident: I do not know anything about grant it, a false religion-nevertb)ele, it conduct of others. that. I do not undertake to decide it claims to be the tiue Chr;sian religioc. The right of private judgment in all for I have given it no thought Religion, true or false, has existed iu the things, especially in religious matters, bee I desire to sly that the view of the sec world ever since the dawn of history. longs to every citizen, and should always tion taken by the gentleman from Lake And, sir, the MormoU sect is to. day a re- be heldl sacred. Those who in this caun [p~r. Haines] is not sound. The section ligious sect. A Chuistian sect we do not try enact and enforce sumptuary and othprovides a free enjoyment of religious believe it to be, but a rel'gious Fect. Do er laws interfering with, regulating the profession, a worship without discrimina- we desire that the Mormons sball retu'rn conduct of and discriminatiag against the tion, and that- to our State, aud bring with them po)lyg. opini,,ns of a certain class of citizens, are No person shall be denied any civil or po- amy? believers in what is called the protestant litical right, privilege or capacity, on account It ii but a short time since a fanatical form of Christianity. How did they of his religious opinions; but the liberty of sect sprung up in New Jeisey, claimi,.g reach their protestant phase of belief? conscience hereby secured shall not be so con- that they were sanctified-that men and By the right of private judgment in re *re etc *p o in extwomen had become puri cd to such an ligious matters, as they often boast, and Several other States have provisions in extent that they could walk the sirects which they so ninch glory iii. Without tkeir Constituto-ns, almost identical with naked, in open day. They claimed to le ihe protestantism is a rebellion, and they, this. California and N~ew York have so pure, that to them all thin)gs were by right, should, now be members of the similar provisions Iew Hampshire has pure. Would we permit such exhibitions catholic church, and obedient childrei of a si.milar provision declaratory of the as these in the name of religion? And' the pope. If their private judgmeint is right of religious opinions. Some men yet this was a religion, and claimed to I~ sacred, by what right do ccrtain classes of may have no religious belief; but the the true Christian religion our i n profin c prov ision is "on a 0ount of his religious I am very much gratified, indeed that form of belief, arrogate to themselves the opinions." the committee has incorporated into this exclusive right to profess and to practice This exercise of the right of opinion article this clause. Men assume all kinds it? Is not the right of honest private should not go to the extent of periling of belief, and adopt all kinds of prac- judgment, no matter what phase or form the safety of the 8~.c Whatever may tices, in the name of religion, and we it may assume, or what conclusion i~ may be the religious opinions o~ ~,~ what- should, by all means, provide in this lead to, as good and as much to be respectever their views upon religious sub~jects, Constitution that men and women shall ed. and pr'otected in Orie nr an as in anhiowever free they s'hould bereft to exer-' sot, in the namae~Of; relig'ion, rushi into other?? CONSTITUTIONAl, CONVENTION FRIDAY, 1560 APRIL 29, 187O~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ DEBATES AND P~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~O()EEDINGS. 1561~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ will or no, has only lived to see the utter and invariable futility of its efforts, except to do grievous wrong, and to hear its emphatic condemnation, in the opinion of the really enlightened men whose calma judgment has been given upon it. The diabolism of the Inquisition and the fires of Geneva and Smithfield, are only remembered to chill the blood with their horrors and to receive the execrations of civilized man. Tile milder coercions of our day are only different in degree and not in kind, nor in the intoleration that prompts them. Those who believe in the observance of the Jewish or Moravian Sabbath, have a perfect right to practice it to their heart's content, and to be protected therein by the strong arm of the law, but they have certainly no right to enforce it upon those who differ from them in this respect. They have no more right to enforce its observance, than those who disagree with them have to abolish or prohibit its observance on their part altogether. One act of coercion is no better and no more justifiable than the other. There is no reason, either in religion, in nature, in justice, or in common sense, for the enenforcement of a Procrutus-bed observance of Sunday, by all individuals alike. Besides the fact that no man has a right to force his opinions and practices upon others, the strict observance of Sunday by all alike, is a grievous oppression to large classes of worthy and honest persons. What is the rest of one, is the recreation of another. The man, or woman, or child, who leads a sedentary life, chained fbr six days, and away up into the night of each day, in the toilsome pursuit that is necessary for the support of life, requires exercise, and locomotion, and fresh air, to recuperate the const'antly over-taxed and failing physical energies. To the poor tailor, and shoemaker, and the more miserable white slave of the factories, it would be not only oppression, but absolute murder in that worst form, a lingering death, to compel them to sit quietly within doors for six or seven hours, the greater part of the available time for recreation of the seventh day. Moreover, as has been repeatedly proved, its enforcement isattended with great political danger. It was but a few years ago that Lord Grosvenor brought a bill into the house of peers in England to prohibit the Sunday excursion trains from leaving the city of London. But the indignant remonstrance of forty thousand stout-hearted British artiz mns in Hyde Park, drove him hurriedly to abandon the measure. All that one class or portion of the community has a right to demand of the others, is that its opinions and rights and observances shall be respected and held inviolate, so long as it does not infringe upon the rights and liberty of the rest of the community. No one can be concerned with what I do, so long as I respect his rights and those of all others. In the pursuit of happiness, he has no more right to infringe upon me, than I upon him. To punish a man for his enjoyments, his pursuits or recreations, when he does not infringe upon the rights of others, can only be justified by his difference in belief, from the party punishing or coercicg him, and a more monstrous injustice can hardly be imagined. In the first place, such an act arrogates to the punishing power the sole authority to judge Let us suppose that two men of equal capacity, equally enlightened, equally informed and equally honest, start out to investigate certain facts and principles, and to form an opinion concerning them, and in the end, come to diametrically opposite conclusions. By what right does one of them assume that because he has reached a certain result, he is the master, governor, keeper and legislator of the other who happens to have reached a different conclusion? And this, too, in the face of the fact that the honest opinions, tastes and prejudices of human beings are naturally and inevitably is different as are their features, the size and height of their bodies, the color and texture of their hair, and the peculiarity of their gait. It never seems to strike the advocate of laws to regulate the opinions, tastes and enjoyments of others, that the state of mind which prompts him to do so, has been reached by a process of reasoning, no more honest, enlightened, or better informed than that which has brought about the opinions of the one he seeks to coerce; that urder the eternal rules of justice and those great principles of freedom, upon which our government is based, the man he seeks to force into conformity with the standard he has set up, is as good and as worthy, in every respect, as he himself is, and that if their positions were reversed and the latter were supported by a sufficient numerical force, the coerced would become the coercer, with the indisputable propriety, that precedent of the advocate of restrictive laws has established for him. Men forget that when they disapprove of the opinions of others, those others, in turn, dislike their opinions quite as much, and just as positively, and that the right of one side to manifest and act upon that disapproval, is no greater than that of the other to reciprocate; so that intolerance, producing by a law of nature its counterpart, in the oppressed, renders persecution a mere question of physical force, and the persecuted of to-day may become the persecutors of to-morrow. The doctrine of free moral agency which is so salient a point in all orthodox Christian teaching, becomes a contradiction in terms, a sham and a cruel farce, when the individual, instead of being left perfectly free to take his course between right and wrong, is compelled by the strong armn of the law, which in suchl case is but another namne for arbitrary physical force, to do what the enactor of the law deems to be right; and the tyranny is no less and the absurdity no greater, even if what is thus enforced is really and morally right. Tyranny is no less contrary to freedom than coercion is obnoxious to and in violation of true Christianity. Christianity is the doctrine of gentle:ness and of peace and of persuasion. It seeks the evil doer only to gently point out to him his error and to overcome him with kindness. It teaches that its merits and blessings are only obtained through a perfect freedomn of choice, and that fo~rcing a human being, under absolute coercion, even to do good, is the devil's work -a proceeding in which there cannot possibly be any merit on either side, but which, by its injustice, will generally create a sympathy for the opinion or practice sought to be coerced. That sort of Christianity which forces men to be good after its fashion, and seeks to drive thema to Paradise, whether theyX 891 i i I AP.RIL 2 9, 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 156i of right and wrong, between the coercing power and the party coerced. In the second place, it assumes, indisputably, the character of immaculacy, also in the authority punishing otherwise, there can be no shadow of justification for the punishment idflicted. And, thirdly, it assulnes the most attrocious position, that honest belief is entirely a matter of volitioia. Unless it is right in all three of these positions, the coercing power i-9 a monster of hideous mien, and arbitrary and UDjustiflable force, before which all semblance of liberty can only meet with cruel and hopeless destruction. Even allowing, for the sake of ar a 9 ment, that the coercing power is right, and the coerced party wroing, the latter is punished for an innocent error ofjudgment, as if honest belief were a matter purely of the will, and could.be cliadved or modified at pleasure, reiideridg the failure to make the change at the command of the oppressor, a matter of purely willful and contumacious obstinacy. Honest, conscientious belief is purely a matter of conviction. In order to bring it a-])out, the reason must first be cop-vince,d, and the person believing can no more control it by his will, than he can regulate his other m-_ysterious psychological functions. How frequently men are -intolerant without beii:,g aware of it. Of all the demODS which have afhicted the human race, that of bigotry is the most lurkidg, the most insidious, and the one whose presence is least known to the individual lie is i —l possession of. Even honest and searching introspection utterly fails to discover his presen ce. Fanaticism and intolerance are his right and left arms, by which he strews his track with suffering, and banishes liberty from his presence. The peerless intellect of John Milton manifests its greatness much less in Paradise Lost than in that splendid. plea in behalf of the liberty of the press-the Areopagitica. Who could believe, without absolutely knowing the fact, that the illustrious author of the Areopagitica, which breathes a spirit of the broadest, purest and most exalted liberty, favored punishment of a simple profession of faith in the catholic churcli with banishment and other severe penalties, and the wearir of the robes of the riesto 15(3 COSIUTOA COV-I RDY trary, they are as la,-d-working, frugal and law-abiding as any people that civilization can boast of, having a habit of attending to their own business, and letting that of other people alone, which a large number of our native-born citizens nmight not unprofitably imitate. They love their adopted country with an ardor, a fervency, a devotion and a sincerity that is not surpassed by those "to the manor born;" and when she needs their services, they are never the last to go, nor the first to return. Patient, hard,working and thrifty, they are daily adding immensely to the power, the wealth, and the prowess of our g-eat country. Educated by a system of schools which has no superior in any country, they are thorough in their knowledge, and intelligent in their ideas, above the average of civilized men. Mentally and psychologically, they are fullgrown men, and cannot be brought to a conformity with ideas which do not convince their reason, or satisfy their sense of justice. And I can tell gentlemen thatin all the mazes of profoundest thought, in all the intricacies of theological and moral speculation, men who are familiar with the splendid writings of Goethe, Schleirmacher, Hegel, Fichte, Schelling, Richter, Kant, Strauss, the Humboldts, and the others of the brilliant galaxy of great German authors, are not by any means neophytes. Loving and appreciating human liberty from the earliest dawn of history, they yield to none in their conception and advocacy of human rights, claiming no more for themselves than they are ready, at all times, even at the sacrifice of their lives, to secure for others. And these ideas are by no means restricted to our foreign-born fellow citizens. There is, I am happy to say, a great and growing appreciation of the true liberty of man, socially, politically and morally, among native-born Americans, and an increasing disposition to no longer bear patiently, the intolerable arrogance of men who assume that, because they entertain L certain form of belief, they are necessarily the masters of their fellowcitizens. Let us adopt and forever abide by the motto of "Liberty for all, infringement upon the rights of none." upright anad in telligent men, on account of th eir opinions adverse to c ertain dog matic points of theology. Yes, l et us with sorrow frankly ac. knowledge the fact that liberty of con sc ience, in its grand and true se n se, even in this boasted l and of freedom is fre quently a sham and a mockery, that lib erty of conscience means that it is the conscience of the majority which is free, to which that of the minority must con form and succumb under severe penal ties. It means that certain individuals, for the simple reason that they profess a be lief in certain opinions, are alone pure eno)u[gh and honest enough to tell the truth and administer the law, whilst those who entertain an adverse belief, regard less of the most unexceptionable up rightness and probity of conduct, are nec essarilv false and corrupt. This is liberty of conscience in many parts of our boast ed free country-particularly in the great States of Pennsylvania and Ohio. Do men ever stop to think that belief is not a matter of will, but, on the other hand, is the result of honest and irresistible conviction? That an honest man can only believe when his reason is convinced? Do they ever reflect thal, in discriminating against him, on account of his opin iolls, they punish him for that which the more honest he is, the less he can avoid? That they put the ban upon him for what they themselves not only most freely enjoy but glory in? And, again, let me ask how have these diametrically opposite opinions been arrived at? By a precisely similar process in each of the individuals thus standing adversely to each other. By what right was it done? By that of private judgment, which certainly belongs, in eternal justice, no more to one man than it does to another, regardless of what opinions may be. Now, where, upon earth, or in the universe, rloes one man find the title, the prerogative, to judge irrevocably and without appeal, that he is right, and that his equally honest and worthy neig,hbor is wrong, and must be punished or discri'minated against for the difference? If we who plant ourselves upon private judgment are right, others who do the same thing, regardless of their opinions, areas much right in the sight of law and justice as we are. If private judgmeut in matters of conscience be wrong we are all rebels alike against the catholic church, and should loseraG timne in tendering our humble submission to the pope and asking his forgiveness. I warn gentlemen that the agitation of this measure has but just fairly begun, and that should it fail to succeed jow, its defeat will but arouse its friends —the friends of justice and true liberty -- to in creased and untiring exertion, until victory is finally~achieved. There is a large and constantly increasing element in the population of' this country, which is not satisfied with the old tyrranica! policy of compelling men, by uilj ust laws, to conform to the tastes, the opinions, the habits, and the prejudices of others, no matter how obnoxious and disagreeable such conformity may be. That element, Mr. President, is largely composed of Germans -- portion of that great German people, who are confessedly the ripest sch~olars, the proibundest thinkers, the most ad~anced philosophers in the world. They are- not loiterers, insubordinate persons, or disturbers of the peace.:QOr the con ADJOURNMEN~T. Mr. WASHBURN. Mr. President: In order that the Convention may have time to digest the speech of the gentleman from St. Clair [Mr. Snyder], I move that the Convention do now adjourn. The motion was agreed to. So the Convention (at twelve o'clock and eighteen minutes) adjourned. FRRDAY, April 29, 1870. The Convention met at two o'clock r. m., and was called to order by the Preside nt, pro tempore [Mr. Bromwell.] BILL OF RIGHTS. Mr. WASHBURN. Mr. President: I have beheld, on more than one occasion, with regret, indications of a departure by members of this Convention from the true principles of republican government. One occasion was that on which the suffrage question was determined and the other occasion is in regard to the subject now under consideration by this Convention. But a short time ago, the party who are represented by the mem bers at the other end (,f the hall, were loud and long in their cries for the ex tension of suffrage. To-day they stand aghast, looking on the ruinous consequen ces of their own triumph, and most of them are now anxious, very anxious, to prevent any further extension of suffrage, even to more worthy persons-not only that, but even to curtail it in its sphere to take away the present rights of the people to elect their own officers. Wit ness the declaration of many members on this floor, that they would be glad to see the election of all the judicial officers of the government taken away from the people and put beyond their control. A like departure is now, I apprehend, presented under section three of the report that we are now considering. I am opposed to that section and the succeeding one. Religious liberty has had a fre; scope in this country It has been the main pillar of our political edi fice, our peace, our geatness, and happi ness, of our freedom. It has, for the last forty or fifty years, I believe, been un trammelled. It has existed in the Con stitution of our State, without an "and," without an "if," without a "but," without any condition whatever, for more than fifty years. And I, for one, sir, am not willing to see this Convention, or the peo ple of the State of Illinois, take a retro)grade movement, and, to-day in 1870, declare our principles in regard to religious freedom, with a condition, with an "if," with an "and," with a proviso. I say, sir, I am not willing to see the people of the State of Illinois go back a half a century. They have stood on the principles of perfect religious freedom, and perfect toleration without an "and," without an "if," or condition of any kind for more than half a century, and, to-day, at the end of that half century, having never suffered a particle by that independent unconditional declaration of their principles, they are willing to go back, and put in those "ands," and "its," and conditions. What is the necessity for these condi. tions? Is it on account of the evils the people of the State of Illinois have suffered? Havethe people suffered by the unconditional declaration of the largest civil and religious liberty? I apprehend not, sir. I have heard of no complaint, and if they have not, where is the demanld for plutting in these conditions? I cannot see. I can, however) see danger in doing so. It is, I believe, a true maxim that majorities are always ready to take care of themselves, are always able to do it, and that States are always composed of ma^ jorities. It is an impossibility for them to be comlposed of anything else, and the State is always able to take care of its ovwn interest. There is no man or religion, or denomination that can persecute the State, because the State is always in the majority, and has the whole political powter, so that there is no necessity for any condition in this declaration of religious freedom. There is no necessity for any "ands," or "ifs," about it; anad unless there be a permanent necessity, we should stand as we have always done, for the largest liberty, the largest toleration, and an unconditional declaration in our bill of rights, without any proviso whatever. I 1562 CONSTITUTIONAL CON'VENTION FP.IDAY, AFTERNOON SESSION. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. , as practices inconsistent with the peace and der safety of the State. c The ter m "peace and safety of the bt- State" is synonymous with th e expression w, we have at the close of every indictment ao "against the p e ace and digni ty of the is State." It is on l y for toioe sake of prohe tecting the peace and safety of th e com uinuiity that this clause is placed here. When a por ti on of a community may be rengaged in religious worsh ip on th e Sab bath, we do not propose that another u- class, under the p rof es sion of perfect free dom to follow out their ow n opimions oin tg- religious subjects, shall interfere with the Li peace and quietness of this religious sope ciety while worshiping A lm ighty God. ss Hence, we have th ought i t necessary to ce- have such a res triction t o secur e freedom ce of religious worship. It must not be in - rs terfered with by others on the pretense y that they have particular opinions, and are only a c ting in accordance with those i- opinions. A person may have opinions is on matters of religion t hat would, in his a opinion, justify him in working all day f Sunday, and thereby disturbing th e peace of those wl o a re ennaged in worship, cut it would not follo,w that restrictions upon c- him would be unj u st. i If we examine all three of these pron visions, we will see th a t they are in ac~. cordance with general principles, and are not unjust restrictions on the proper exercise of liberty of conscience. There I have been practi ces in the world incont sistent with the peace and safety of the community. The prohibition of such 3 practi ce s as were ill vogue, f or instance, i among the Hiisdoos, would be demanded by the civilization of the age. Under the d p ret ense o f religion the y c ast their chilh dren under the c ar of Juggernaut; ye t that would unquestionably be a practice t inconsistent with the peace and s afety of the community. [[I ere the hammer fell ]. Mr. I-IAINES, of Lake. Mr. Presi- dent: In relation to the a me nd ment of the gentleman from St. Clair [Mr. SDnyf der], I wish to say a very few words. His proposition is to strike out the l word ftreligious, before the word "opinM iois," where it occurs in the thi rd line in e section three. If the word trieligious" t were stricken out, thie clause would read, r " and no person shall be denied any civil ? or political right, privilege or capacity, on account of his opisiaons.t The quali fications wo uld be ver y well timed and X very proper, and I would have no objee tion to it. tBut the remnarks of thle gentleman from t Williamsvnl [Mr. W~ashbl-urn] seeml proper arnd very just, as applied to this sectio3n — that this getneral declaration of religious toelerationl is up to the demands and spir, it of thbe age. The past history of the world teaches us that it is necessary, in order that civilization mlay advance, to iadopt this general principle in its broad. est termns, that its adopting it there can be no qualification whatever, but that there must be general religious treeration. The mistake that here occurs, and the misapprehension is, as to what religious *worship is, or what religious opinions are. The gentleman from Stephenson [Mr. Turner] hlas given us an illustration of what it was pretended to be in the streets of some city in New Jersey. That did tnot make it; so. The gentleman from Mc Lean [IF. Bm, jamin] saes that in Hin dostan sacrificingg the infant child and f No religious test shall ever be required ht a qualification for office or public trust und this State. , There is nothing in relation to w ny nesses in the present Constitution. No I am in favor of freedom of opinion upo B religious subjects, and the object of th s section is to extend that freedom. It ;copied, not exactly, but ne ar]y, from t] h Constitution of the State of N e w Yon ha Constitution which is o lder than of own, having been adopte d in 1846. o Th e saye provis ion is in the Constit tioll of California, adopted in 1849. The free exercise and enjoyment of re]i fious profession and worshipdw it hout diserin nation or preference, shall forever be allowm in this State to all mank ind; a nd no persc shall be rendered incompetent to be a witne on account of his opinions on matters of l ~ ligious belief; but the liberty of conscient hereby secured, shall not be so construed X to excuse acts of licentiousness, or justif practices inconsistent with the peace or safel of this State. It will be observed that in the Const] tution of the State of New York there i a provision that no person shall be ix competent to be a witness, on account o his religious opinions. That provision i not in the present Constitution of th State of Illinois The clause in this se( tion is broad enough to cover that prince ple, and also the principle that no relit ious test shall be required as a qualifica tion to any office. It is: No person shall be denied any civil or po litical right, privilege or capacity, on accoun of his religious opinions. The free exercise and enjoyment of r~ ligious profession and worship being as serted in the broadest terms, these quali fications follow: The liberty of conscience hereby secure( shall not be so construed as to dispense wit] oaths or affirmations, excuse acts of lien tiousuess, or justify practices inconsisten with the peace or safety of the State. Is the gentleman in favor of dispensine with these qualifications? Mr. WASHBURN. Does the gentle man wish an answer? Mr. BENJAMIN. Mr. President: I. I had timne-yes. Mr. WASHBURN. Mr. President: ] am not opposed to persons being sworn or affirmed, certainly. I will now ask the gentleman a question. Does our present Constitution forbid men being sworn ox affirmed on account of religious opinaions? M~r. BENJAM IN. Mr. President: The present Constitution does not contain a pro3visionl prohibiting the Legislature from putting a restriction uponl the right of testifyIng. The gentleman has said that he is riot in favor of dispensing with affirmatives and oaths. What is the next qualification? "Excuse acts of licentiousness." I wfll ask the gentleman, and he can answer or not, whether he is in favor of allowing persons, under pretense of religious profession and worship, to indulge in acts of licentiousness? It he is not, then that is, in his opinion, no restriction whatever. What is the other qualification?v "Or 'j ttstify practices inconsistent with the peace or safety of the State.' What are all laws and constitutions made for, except to secure to the people the blessings of liberty, peace and safety? There cannot be any possible objection to that. We do not wvish to engraft in this Constltution any provision which would recognize any'power anywhere, in majorities, minlorities, or individuals, to follow Then, if it be true that the power the State is always suffilcient to prote itsel f a gainst any en croachments, fr any religious denomination, from any ligious heresy, t then the pr ov iso is utte r useless. - But I want to say further that there great danger in this proviso being abuse because the State, always in the majorit can very easily abuse it. The State, brin ing to its aid this proviso, will always 1 able to construe the proviso to the d struction of the principal " declaration. It always has the power when it has tt will. Now, I want to call the attentioni gentlemen who are all interested in t[ perpetuation of civil and religious libe ty to ourselves and our children, to tt: history of the Christian religion und( the Roman empire. What was the just fication, what were the excuses for th persecutions inflicted by the Roman en perors upon the Christians of the earl ages? It was precisely the "if," tl " and, " the proviso inserted in this bill c rights here. If any man will go back an read the excuses of those Roman emp~ rors and their ministers, who persecute the Christian church for hundreds of year~, he will find that there was no other o different excuse, or j ustifdcation, than tha that religion was inconsistent with th peace and safety of the State. Their ex cuses were precisely the same, and in th same words ofthis proviso, not that religio was immoral, but that it was inconsist ent with the peace and safety of the Ro man State. Now, here, at almost the close of the nineteenth century, this samej ustification, this same excuse put forth by the Roman emperor, is put in our bill of rights. Sir, I am opposed to it. I can not vote for it. There is no necessity for that proviso: there can be no necessity for it. Although differing with the gentleman from St. Clair [M.r. SBydti, r] widely a s the poles, in theological matters, I stand with h im in asking for perfect religious tolerance and freedom I hope this Convention will not be ashamed of the declaration of their fathers, nor fear to avow upon the broadest ground, without an "if" or a "proviso," the doctrine of the utmost religious toleration and freedom. I would prefer to substitute sections three and four, of article thirteen of our present Constitution, for sections three and four of this article. They are comprehensive, clear, one-fourth shorter, and protect the religious liberty of every citizen of the State, bevond peradventure. They make the declaration broadly, without any proviso or "if," or "and," and leave no excuse for future generations to persecute anybody. Mr. BENJAMIN. Mr. Presi(lerit: The gentleman from Williamson [Mr. Washburn] stated that the provision in the 1present Constitution is as broad as the one reported by the committee. I would direct his attention and the attention of the members of the Convention to this clause: ApiaiL 29) 1870. 1563 And no person shall be denied any civil or -Dolitical right, 1)rivileze or capacity, on ae.count of his religious opinions. As the Constitution now stands, we .havel,o,ie clause, a.ad one only, upon this fubje.ct, and that is the fourth section of the thirteenth article of the Constitutio, 1?64 UONSTITUTIONAL ()ONYE~TION FRIDAY, the persecutions that followed the dark ages, were in consequence of this same principle qualifying religious toleration. Gentlemen, in the argument upon the section, seem to think that because the proposition is to strike out the qualification, it is to prevent this toleration. We can only have free religious toleration by striking off this qualification. I do not care about the State of New York or California having adopted this qualification, as claimed, with a view of shutting out a class of persons of certain religious pretenses, or want of religious views. That is nothing to us We have no heathens amongst us, coming from the west. We have none coming from the east, to threaten our institutions; but, suppose that we do, as in California, having reference to these pagans, so called-they are pagans to us -not being a religious people, but wanting in religion, as I understand it. This section, when this qualification is stricken out, -ill encourage religion. Takethe Mormons, who have been referred to. They are people that wanted religion, and are wanting in it to-day, very badly, as we understand religion. I have no feeling whatever upon this subject, but I am only astonished, if it has been adopted in the State of Newt York, that it has not worked a greater hardship upon their people. Were it not for the high state of civilization and learning of the people of that State, we might well expect a return to barbarism, by any su.ch qualification. As has been well inquired, what is the necessity of this restriction? It is an in - novation upon our law, as it is. If it is calling upon us to lay down what religion is, and for the first time putting into our Constitution the institution of religion, compelling us to observe it, then it should go in without the qualification. Let us have no engine of oppression here that sectarians can use to our disad vantage; let us have the free and unrestrained religious toleration, for we un derstand what religion is, and cannot af ford to have any confusion of terms. It is not the want of religion, but religion that we are talking about. Gentlemen seem to base their arguments upon the hypothesis that religion and the want of it, are one and the same thing. It is those who are wanting in religious opinions who overturn the State and society. It is not the religious man. If we have fnythingof value to society in this age of the world, we owe it to the spirit of religion. Mr. PERLEY. Mr. President: The opponents of this section have had the closing speech, and I move the previous question. Mr. UNDERWOOD. Mr. President- e Mr. PERLEY. I will withdraw it in favor of the gentleman from St. Clair [Mr. Underwood], if he will renew it. Mr. UNDERWOOD. Mr. President: A bill of rights is the foundation of the articles upon which the superstructure of government is erected. I think it is ex ceedingly important that we should lay our foundation of good, solid material. The first section relates to natural rights —those rights with which it is said in the Declaration of Independence, we are endowed by our Creator. I regret that the word "independent" was inter polated in this section, for the reason that we are dependent always and everywhere. We are dependent upon Deity burning the widow upon the funeral pile of her husband is pretended to be religion. This section does not speak of the pretense of religion. It speaks of religion a ctually and absolutely, as a fact, as it is. If this section is adopted as a part of the law of the land, for the first time in the history of the State of IlliJnois, will the courts be called upon to define what religious opinion is and what religion is. They have not, in this State, been called upon to declare what religion is, as understood by the people of the State. Now they will be, and when they shall have laid down the definition of religion, we shall be astonished at the qualification which we have placed in this section, Those practices that lead to the danger of society, and destroy the peace of the State, are not religious practices. We have a definition of what religion is, and when the courts lay down the rule, they will pronounce it in this language: e: Religion, in a comprehensive sense,includes a belief in the being and perfection of God, in the revelation of his will to man, in man's obligations to obey his commands, in a state of reward and punishment, and in man's accountablenessto God; and also true godliness and piety of life, with the practice of all moral duties. It therefore comprehends theology as a system of doctrines or principles as well aspractical piety; for the practice of moral duties without a belief in a divine lawgiver, and without reference to his will or commands, is not religion. This, the lexicographer tells us, is a true definition of the term religion. Is this going to endanger the State, this institution which we allow each man to ob serve according to the dictates of his own conscience? And yet we are asked to put in a qualification here that a man may have and enjoy what religion he pleases, provided it does not interfere with the peace and safety of the State. is the man who attends church, whether on the sev. enth day or the first day, and listens to the word of God and its construction by the man who is commissioned to give it to him, interfering with the peace and safety of the State? Does the man who retires to his closet and prays in secret, according to the Divine command, endanger the peace and safety of the State? Is a man who visits the widow and the fatherless, and gives with his right hand what his left hand does not know of, the bad man complained of? Are we called uponl to put these restrictions arnd qualifications in the way for fear that this will overturn the State? Not at all. Mr. BENJAMIN. If the gentleman will allow me, I will state the clause is, that "liberty of conscience hereby seculred, shall be so construed," etc. It is a matter of construction. -Mr. HAINES, of Lake. Who in the world ever supposed that liberty of conlscience, ill the light of religion, could be so construed? We might as well say that a man may join a camapblilire or catholic church, or any other church, provided that he thereby does not become an immoral man. Who ever can suppose he would? Nio man who is given the free liberty of conscience in the worship of Almighty God, according to the princ~iple of the divine law, will ever become a bad man, and it is not well for us to cast such reflections upon the Christian religion, to which we owe so much for our existence as an enlightened people. It is true, as the gentleman from Williamson [Mr. Washburn]"has Baid, that CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION FF,IDA' Yi. 1564 for sustaining our lives. We are dependent upon our fellow-men for our food, clothing, houses and everything about us. We are dependent creatures from the cradle to the grave. The second section was designed to prevent the government from invadin — our natural rights: No person shall be deprived of life, liberty or property, without process of law. The third section relates to religious liberty-a subject which has been talked of with the utmost bitterness, for the last live hundred years, and upon which every person has his own notions. - It is one of the most difficult things in the world to clearly define. In Europe, where the church is connected with the S tate, it is usual to establish one particular church, and if others are allowed to exist it is said not to be a matter of right, but of sovereign favor. I cannot but think that since the time of Rocer Williams, the American principle is that religious liberty is a right like allnaturalrights. WedoLotgetitfrom government, but from the same source from which we get all our natural rights. It is very proper for the government of Great BritaiD, under its theories, to say that religious liberty shall be "allowed." What I "allow," I grant as a matter of favor. I regret that that word is used, inasmuch as government is instituted to preserve to men their natural rights. I would substitute the word "guaranteed" -protected in the same manner as all other liberties are protected. The article then proceeds: No person shall be denied any civil right, privilege or capacity on account of his religious belief. My colleague [Mr. Snyder] moves to strike out the words "religious belief." Whether that is in or out, I regret that the language is a little ambiguous. A man should not be called in question on account of his religious opinions; which, as the gentleman from Lake [Ir. Haines] undertakes to define here, would be a very narrow basis on which to build a, government. No man has a right to call me in question for my religious opinions; nor have I the right to call him in ques tion for his want of the same religious opinions. In this respect, we stand upon th,-, same platform precisely-each respon APRIL 29, 1870 DEBATES API) PROOEEI)1X&S. 1565 this question, should take cognizance of, a fact which we know by observation and which history teaches us, and that is, that there are certain religions, which, wheth er true or false, permit or encourage prac tices which are inconsistent with the peace and safety of the State. Free-love, in all its hideousness, assumes to be a re ligion. Mormonism assumes to be a reli gion. Buddhism assumes to be a religion. There are a thousand forms of infidelity, transcendentalism, and nameless vagaries, taught by that class of German metaphy siciaas, of which the gentleman from St. Clair [Mr. Snyder] has spoken so elo quently. Some of the practices of some of these religions, we, as men of common sense, know are inconsistent with the peace and dignity of the State; some of them have the worst forms of licentious practices, which are in conflict with the laws, peace and dignity of the State. We should, fer that reason, insist upon this qualifying clause in this section. We have the right to judge of whether certain practices are inconsistent with the peace and dignity of the State. There are certain practices which interfere with the carrying out of the fundamental prin ciples which underlie the form of govern- h ment under which we live; certain prac tices which conflict with the spirit and genius of our government, and are con. trary to the spirit and genius of our laws. We should simply take cognizance of that fact, and inaugurate such measures as will perpetuate our government. For that reason I am in favor of this section. Mr. BRYAN. Mr. President: In re ply to the gentleman from Williamson [LIr. Washburn], who has implied that the persecution of the saints, in former times, was the effect of "ifs" and "buts," I would say, that persecution originated from the fact that there were no consti tutional safeguards. Had there been that religious protection which there should have been, the gentleman would now have no occasion at all to refer to persecutions of the saints. Their afflic tions came not because they had consti tutional safeguards, as we propose in this section, but because of the want of them. The early Christians among the Ro mans behaved themselves as well, and perhaps better, than many who profess Christianity in our time. No fault was cidsolnobetlrtdudrtefound with their private lives;* or with their social conduct. They were perse- I cuted because they believed and acted in obedience to the Christian system, which was in ronflict with the Pagan religion of the State, and there being no constitu tional protection, oppression followed this antagonism. Mr. WASHBURN. Mr. President: I did not say that the Romans had a written Constitution, or attribute their persecutions to the want of one, but I did say the excuse the emperors of Rome gave for their persecutions was the exact language contained in this section, that they were "for the peace and safety of the State." Mr. BRYAN. Mr. President: I reply to the gentleman's second statement, which is stronger than the first, that but for a guarantee and safeguard in the Constitution of the State of Illinois, perseca- S tion, similar to that in history, might rise up now. o-But it is proposed, sir, by this section f tehat men shal! not, under religious or other pretense, abuse an age of civiliza We come now to the other branch, and that is with reference to licentiousness. The religious liberty or duty to the Deity is a matter with which human govern. ment has nothing to, do. Our duties to our fellow men are within the province of human legislation. Licentiousiess is legitimately and properly a subject of human legislation. Hence this explana tion, that religious liberty shall not be interpreted, as often is, to allow licen tiousness or crime. I admit such pretended liberty is a mere perversion of true liberty. One cannot use language calculated to debauch the public mind, and ought not to be allowed to. He cannot publish books of a licentious character, or paintings calcu lated to debauch society. He can not in troduce spiritual wives or additional wives, under pretense of religion, as the ]tormous do. These things strike at the root, the foundation of public decency and morality, among all civilized nations. They are a legitimate subject of legisla tion, and very properly the committee, in modern times, when so much abuse of pretended religious liberty is sought to be spread over the land, think it best to lay their axe at the root of the tree, and say that under the pretense of relig ious liberty, one shall not uproot the foundation of society, and destroy all decency, law and government. We next come to the other clause, and about that I have, like my friend from Williamson [Mr. Washburn] some doubts, "or justify practices inconsistent with the peace or safety of society." That is very broad language, and in times of pas sion and excitement, it might be pervert ed to persecution for the expression of religious or political opinions. I would much prefer to say someting like this: "Shall not excuse acts of licentiousness, or acts of persons invading the liberties or rights of others." UL,der the pretense of religion, deformed children are slaughtered. They are not allowed to live in some countries. I believe it is so in China. In some countries the widows are burned on the funeral pyre of their husbands. In some countries many acts of an atrocious character are called religious rites and ceremonies. Invading the rights of a person in our country-whether man, woman or child —should not be tolerated under the pretense that they are religious rites or ceremonies. But to indicate in the hill of rights that the government is to be the judge of religion, is not, I think} safe. That belongs to the citizen. He is responsible alone, That the government may set up a theory that certain doctrines are calculated to disturb, in some way, the peace and safety of the State and society, strikes me as of very doubtful propriety, and not sufficiently guarded to be put ill a bill of rights. A govern. merit, being made by the people and for the people made by persons of all kinds of ikith, and men of no faith —we must lay the foundation broad enough that all men may feel that they have equal rights. [Here the hammer ft'll.] Mir. WENDLING. Mr. President: It seems to me that the only qulestion for this Convention to consider, is not whether this religion or that religion is- true or false. This Convention cannot set up aL criterion by which to judge a real or pretended religion. There is only one Sect which we} as legislators, int dea~lng with 392 A.Pi?.IL 29, 1870, DEBATES AND PROCIREDINGS. 1565 tion It is proposed, sir, that % hite each is allowed the exercise of his religious choice, he shall not engage in practices opposed to civilization, peace and order. What is this section? When the rights of citizens are- recognized, it ought to be remembered that the safety of these depends on government - on the virtue and intelligence of the people. Licentiousness is opposed to the safety of government. Further iu the regular administration of justice, oaths and af firmations are necessary and are there.fore secured. It is believed that there are reasons why obligations should be imposed; that oaths are useful to this end. Therefore it was that an oath was required of each member of this Con vention. There should also be a safeguard agairst licentiousness. No republican govern ment can exist in the absence of virtue; and licentiousness saps the foundation of all social order. AgaiD, this clause is necessary for those who hold these sentiments. In Europe, men are often arraigned and tried under accusations of treason. So here, un der our form of government, where we have all sorts of religious toleration, a citizen might be brou,ht up and punished for a pretended violation of the laws. But here we define clearly what is to be neld a violation of lawful religious toleration. The section declares that licentiousness, and that alone, is the counterpart of religious toleration. It is (le. fined before every citizen, and so lodg as he keeps the practice of his religious OPIDIODs and sentiments within - the bounds of decency. there is no danger of his:being tried fctr violating the laws. It is the interest of every man, whether professing the Christiaa religion or not, t.'iat this distinct provision should be here, that he may know by what authority and for what off,3use he may be tried. Mr. PEIILEY. Mr. Presid( —nt Nlr. McDOWELL. Mr. President Would an amendment be ia order? The PRESIDENR, pro tempore. It is not. There is an amendment to an amendment pending. Mr. McDO WELL. I hope gentlemen will not insist on movidg the previous., questio-,I. This is one of the most importailt matters that has yet been before the 156(OSIUINLCNETO RDY The question is unon the amendment offered by the gentleman from St. Clair [Mr. Snyder]. The yeas and nays were ordered. The Secretary proceeded to call the roll. Mr. ABBOTT (when his name was called) said: I take the opportunity to state that it is not in consequence of my opposition to, ordisrespect to the Christian religion, that I do not vote for the amendment. I vote "No." The result was then announced-yeas 4, nays, 53-as follows: So the amendment offered by Mr. Haines, of Lake, was not a greed to. The PRESIDENT, p r o tempore. The question is upon th e adoption of the s e ction. Mr. McDOWELL. Mr. President: I now r e new my mot ion ho add a fte r the word "licentiousness" the words "or polygamy." Mr. VANDEVENTER. Mr. President: The previous question has already been ordered. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The question is on tihe s ection a s amended. The yeas acnd nays will be taken. Mr. ALLEN, of Alexander. I do not think there is any necessity for taking the yeas and nays when they are not ordered. Mr. BROWNING. The yeas and nays were not called for. Mr. HAINES, of Lake. I want the yeas and nays The yeas and nays were ordered. The Secretary proceeded to call the roll. Mr. McDOWELL (when his name was called said: Mr. Presiaent ["Object." "Object."] Mr. McDOWELL. As I cannot say aDvthing, I will merely vote "Aye." Mr. WASHBURN (when his name was called) said: As this declaration is better th.n no declaration at all, I believe I shall vote "Aye." The result was then announced-yeas 55, nays 2-as follows: Haines of L'k, Washburn, Snyder, Abbott, Fox, Alien of Alex.. Fuller, Alien of Cr'fd.,Gamble, Anderson, Goodell, A tkins, Goodhue, Ba) yne, Hankins, Benjamin, Hart, Browning, Hildrup, Bryan, McCoy, Cary, McDowell, Church, Medill, Cody, Moore, ECoolbaugh, Parker, Cross, Parks, C uinmings, Perley, Dement, Peirce, Eidredge, Poage, Forman, Rice, ABSENT, OR NOT VOTING. Anthony, Haines of Cook,Robinson, Archer, Hanna, Scholfield, Bromwell, Harwood, Skinner, Brown, Hay, Sutherland, Buxton, Hayes, Truesdale, Cameron, King, Wagner, Cary, Merriam, Wall, Craig,, Neece, Wright, Ellis, Pillsbury, Mr. Preeident-28. English, So the motion of Mr. Snyder to strike out the word "religious," was not agreed to. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The que s tion is upon the words proposed to be inserted by t he gentleman from St. Clair [Mr. Snyder]. Mr. CHURCH. Mr. President: I do not see how we can insert the w ords, when ther e i s nothing stricken out to give place to the words. T he PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The case ius very clear. T he gentleman fromA Lake[Mr. Haines] moves to strike out, and the gentleman from St. Clai r [Mr. Snyder] moves to strike out othe r words, and also to insert words in the pl ace of those moved to b e strick en out by the gentleman from Lake. ["Read."] Mr. CHURCH. Th e vote has not been t ak en up on the mo tion of th e ge ntleman from Lake [Mr. Haines]. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. Of course not, because that is the motion to which this is moved as a n ame ndment. The amendment is first in order. Mr. DEMENT. Mr. President. Is it in order to move to lay both the amendments on the table? The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The Chair is of opinion that it would be, according to the sense of the Convention yesterday. Mr. DEMENT. Then, I move, sir, to lay the amendments on the table —all of them. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The Chair is, upon reflection, of opinion, that inasmuch as the question has been divided, and one part voted upon, the motion to lay upon the table woud not be in order. Anthony, English, Pillsbury, Archer, Haines of C'k, Robinson, Bowman, Hanna, Scholfield, Bromwell, Harwood, Sutherland, Brown, Hay, Truesdale, Buxton, Hayes, Wall, Cameron, King, Wright Craig, Merriam, Mr.President-26. Ellis, Neece, So the amendment offered by Mr. Snyder was not ageeed to. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The question is upon the amendment of the gentleman from Lake [Mr. Haines], to strike out all after the word "opinions," ia third line. The yeas and nays were ordered, and being taken, resulted-yeas 6, nays 49 -as follows: So section three was agreed to.' The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The question will be on section four. The Secretary read section four, as follows: SEC. 4. No person shall be compelled to attend or support any ministry or place of worship against his consent, nor shall any preference be given by law to any religious denomination or mode of worship. Mr. WELLS. I offer the following addition to section four, and desire to have it read. The Secretary read the amendment offered by Mr. Wells, as follows: Add to the end of the section the following wordse "The General *ssembly shall provide in the manner in which persons who con CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION FRIDAY, 1566 by the gentleman from St. Clair [Mr. SDyder] tothe amendment offered by the geiitlt,man from Lake [Mr. Haines]. ["DiViSiOD," "Division."] The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. A division of the question is called for, and the question will be first taken on strik i,ng out the word "religious." The yeas and nays were ordered, and, be!Dg taken, resulted-yeas, 9, nays, 46 -as follows: YEAS. Abbott. Parker, - Fox,' Snyder, Haines ofLake,Washburn, Wells, Wtiitin wilsonE,-9. . YEA$. NAT$. Allen of Alxln,Forman, Allen of Cwfd, Fuller, Anderson, Gamble, Atkins, Goodell, Baype, Goodhue, Benjamin, Hankins, Bowman, Hart, Browning, Hildrup, Bryan, McCoy, Church, McDowell, Cody, Medill, Coolbaugh, Moore, Cross, Parks, Cummings, Perley, Deinent, Peirce, Eldredge, Wilson-4. P?age, RIce, Ross. Sedgwick, Sharp, Sherrill, Springer, Tincher, Tubbs, Turner, UDderwood, Vandeventer, wait, Weiidliing, Wheaton-46. Ross' Sedgwick, Sharp, Sheri-ill, Skinner, Springer, l'inctier, Tubbs, Turner, Underwood, Vandeventer, Wagner, wait, Well-,, Wendling, Wheaton, Whiting. ABSENT OR NOT VOTING. English, Pillsbury, Raines of Clk, Robinson, Hanna, Beholficid, I ]Elarwood, Sutherland, Ray, Truesdale, I Hayes, Wall, King, Wright Merriam, Mr.Prefsident-26. Neece, YEAS. Abbott, Fuller, Sedgwick, Allen of Alex, Gamble, Sharp, Allen, of Crlfd,Goodell' Sherrill, Anderson, Goodhue, Skinner, Anthony, Haines of LakeSDrineer. Atkins, Hankins, "fineli'er,' Bayne, Hart, Tubbs, Betijamin, Hildrup, Turner, Browning, Nfecoy, Vandeventer, Bryan, McDoNiell, Wagner, Ca.ry, Medill, W f. It, Church, Moore, Wall, Cody, Parks, Washburn, Cotlbaugh, Perley, Wells, Cross, Peirce, Weindling, Cummings, Poage, Wheaton, Dement, Rice, Whiiing, Eldredge, Ross, Wilson-55. Forman, NI&YS. Snyder-2. YEA.S. Fox, Fox, Ross, Haines ofL'ke,Snyder, Washburn, WilaGn-6. ABSENT, OR NOT VOTING. Haines of CookPillsburv, Hanna' Robinson, Harwood, Beholfield, Hay Sutherland, Hayes, Truesdale, King, Underwood, Merriam, Wright Neece, Mr. President-26. Parker, NAYS. Abbott, Forman, Allen of Alex.,Fuller, Allen ofCrwfd,Gamble, Anderson, Goodell, Atkins, Hankins, Bayne, Hart, Benjain Hildrap, I McCoy, Browning, Bryan, McDowell, Cary, Medill, Church, Moore, Cody, Parki;, Coolbaugh, Perley, Cross, irce, Cummings, Poage, Dement, Rice, Eldredge, Archer, Bowman, Bromwell, Brown, Buxton, Cameron, Craig, Ellis, EDglish, gedg,wick, Sharp, Sherrill, Skinner, Springer, TiDeher Tubbs,' Turner, Underwood, Vandeventer, Wagner. wart,' Wells, Wendling, Wheaton, Whiting-49. A.BSENT, OR NOT VOTING. Goodhue, Parker, HsCines ofCook,Pillsbury, ]Elanna' Robinson, Harwood, 8 holfield, Ray, Sutherland, Hayes, Truesdale, King, Wall, Merriam, Wright, Neece, Mr. President -28. Anthony, Archer, Bowman, Bromwell, Brown, Buxton, Cameron, Craia, Eiiii, Englif3h. APRIL 29, 1870. DEBATES AXD PROOEEDIGS. 1567 scientiously observe the seventh day of the NAYS. I desire to remove that restriction, that scientiously observe the seventh day of the week as the Sabbath, may be exempted from answering any civil process returnable on that day." Mr. WELLS. In the early part of the session of this Convention, I presented some eight or ten petitions, containing about four or five hundred names in all, requesting the exemption of the petitioners from answering civil process, on the day they recognize, and conscientiously observe as the Sabbath. It is a matter of right. Our statute laws provide for the observance of the common Sabbath, or first day of the week, but there is no provisiou for this large class of honest, industrious, reliable citizens who conscientiously observe the seventh day, or Saturday. The operation of that defect upon our statute-book is that h onest men, am ong our best citizens, who observe the seventh day, are sued, and the return day of the process being fixed upon Saturday, sometimes, and not unfrequently, it is of course of great annoyance to those persons. Instatnces have been known where people have been sued for the purpose of annoyance, and judgments have been taken by default against them because they were prevented, by conscientious scruples, from answering the summons upon that day. I believe the amendment will cover the whole case, will be a simple act of justice to this class of people, who are regarded in every community where they reside, as among the most worthy, lawabiding citizens. Mr. MEDILL. Mr. President,- I would inquire of the gentleman whether the Legistature cannot pass a law affording relief to these men? Mr. WELLS. It is true that the Legislature can grant relief, but this amendment provides that the Legislature shall do it. For fifty years the laws of this State have provided that the common Sabbath shall be observed, while they have been entirely silent on this subject. Mr. McDOWELL. Mr. President: I would inquire of the gentleman, if these people profess to be Christians? Mr. WELLS. They do claim to be Christians. They are sometimes called seventh-day baptists. There is a settlement of many hundredsof them in Union county. The gentleman from Fayette [Mr. Forman] presented a petition from the same class. There are also a large number in Peoria county. I hope the amendment, which I regard as a simple act of justice, wi l be adopted by this Convention. Thle PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The question is on the adoption of the amendment offered by the- gentleman from Peoria [Mr. Wells]. The yeas and nays.were ordered, and being taken, resulted —yeas, 33, nays, 23 -as follows:. NAYS. Abbott, Coolbaugh, Moore, Allen of Alx'n,Dement, Rice, Anthony, Fuller, Sedgwick, Atkins, Haines of LakeTurner, Benjamin, Hankins, Wall, Browning, Hart, Whiting, Bryan, Harwood, Wilson-23. Church, McDowell, B SENT, OR NOT VOTING. English, Pill1 bury, Haines of CookRobinson, Hanna, Scholfield, Hay, Skinner, Hayes, Sutherland, Kitg, Truesdale, MeC )y,' Wheaton, Merriam, Wright, Neece, Mr. President-27. I desire to remove that restriction, that the Legislature, in such cases as they may think best, may reduce the number of triers to nine or less. Mr. ROSS. Would that amendment authorize the Legis,ature to reduce the jury to one or two? Mr. SKINNER. Such would be the case. It would leave it entirely with the General Assembly —and is not the General Assembly a safe place to leave this power? Why the necessity of barring such legislative discretion by provisionia the organic law? If the gentleman desires it he may pro,pose an amendment to my amendment, limiting the jurors to not less than six. It may be that, in questions of condemnation and appropriation of private property to public use, there may be a propriety where an issue is formed in havinga less number than six. CoiLmissioners are used in some cases now, by special laws, and, I also believe, by geuera' laws. These commissioners are really triers, in a manner at least, jurors. It may be that a class of cases would arise where the number of triers should be less than twelve, but I am willing that they should be limited to not less than six. If the ge ntleman desires such a limitation he can move it. What I wish is to leave to the discretion of the Legislature the number of triers or jurors in the different classes of cases that may from time to time arise. Mr. CHURCH. Mr. President: I do not think that it necessarily follows from this section con;(-rning the right of trial by jury, that in every investigation of the same issue, there must be a trial by jury. Each person under. this section will have the right to such trial in every case involving the right of person or property. The manner in which such trial is to be secured, the place where, and the time when, of course, can be regulated by the General Assembly. I do not believe, sir, that the people of this State are prepared to abandon the right of insisting upon the trial by a jury of twelve men. I believe that their regard for personal liberty and life, is such that they will insist that they shall not be deprived of either, unless at least twelve men shall unanimously concur in the reasons for such deprivation; and nothing less than that is the "due process of law"-less than that will not satisfy them.\ Mr. SKINNER. Mr. President: I would suggest to the gentleman, that it only appli s in civil cases. Mr. CHURCH. It is only a difference of degree, Mr. President. Property is the next thing in sacredness to life and liberty. Parties have, of course, the right to waive a trial by jury. No mall is itbrced to have a trial by jury} unless the other party, whose life, liberty or property is in jeopardy, shall insist uponl it. That protection, I think} he should have; and it is revolutionary to propose to insert in the Constitution a less number than twelve. It has not beer. called for. It has not been an agitated question. Mr. ATKINS. Mr. President: I am entirely opposed to the adoption of the amendment proposed by the gentleman from Adams [Mr. Skinner]. It is evident from his remarks that the class of cases to which his amendmsent will and is designed to apply, if adopted, is that claws where railroad corporations, for the purpose of condem!~ing private property So the amendment offered by Mr. Wells, was agreed to. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The question is upon the adoption of the section, as amended. Section four, as amended, was agreed to. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The question is upon the fifth section. The Secretary read section five, as follows: SEc. 5. Every person may freely speak, write and publish his sentiments on all subjects, being responsible for the abuse of that liberty; and in all trials for libel, both civil and criminal, the truth, when published, with good motives and for justifiable ends, shall be sufficient defense to the person charged. Mr. HAINES, of Lake. Mr. Pres;dent: I move to strike out the word "trials," and insert the word "prosecutions." Mr. BENJAMIN. Mr. President: I suggest the clause will include prosecutions. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The gentleman from Lake [Mr. Haines] moves to strike out the word "trials" and insert "prosecutions." The question is on the amendment. The amendment offered by Mr. Haines, of Lake, was not agreed to. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The question is upon the adoption of the section. Section five was agreed to. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The question is upon section six. The Secretary read section six, as follows: SEc. 6. The right of trial by jury, as heretofore enjoyed, shall' remain inviolate; but the General Assembly may authorize the trial of civil cases before justices of the peace, by a jury of less than twelve men. Mr. SKINNER. Mr. President: I move to amend by striking out in the second line of section six, the words "before justices of the peace" I do this that the Legislature may not be barred from reducing the number of triers or petit jury, to less than twelve. There is a class of cases-a considerable number-that would not come within the term "before justices of the peace" where less than twelve would be just as good as twelve, and the public convenience would be served and expense saved. I wish that the General Assembly shall not be precluded from reducing the number of triers below twelve, in such= cases as the General Assembly may think best. The language here used means that the right of trial by jury shall not be denied except in the cases named. It means in the common law sense-that is by twelve jurors. Allen, of Crw'dGoodhue, Anderson, Hildrup, Bayne, Medill, Cary, Parker, Cr oss, Park s, Cummings, Perley, Eldredge, Peirce, Forman, Poage, Fox, Ross, Gamble, Sharp, Goodell, fSherrill, APP.IL 29) 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1567 Archer, Bowman, Bromwell, Brown, Buxton, Cameron, Cody, Craig, Ellis, TEAS. Snyder, Springer, T'incher, Tubbs' Underwood, Vandeventer, Wagner, Wait. Washburn, Wells, Wendling. 1568 CONSTITUTIONAL CONVNTIO FRrDAY, Section six was agreed to. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The question is upon the adoption of section seven. The Secretary read section seven, as follows: SEC. 7. The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated; and no warrant shall issue without probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized. Mr. VANDEVENTER. Mr. President: I desire to offer the following ,amendment. The Secretary read the amendment offered by Mr. Vandeventer, as follows: Str i ke out the words "oath or affirmation," in the third line, and insert "affidavit;" and add at the end of the section the words, "and clearly detailing the facts and circumstances claimed to constitute such probable cause." Mr. VANDEVENTER. Mr. President: I do not propose to detain the Convention with any long remarks in dis cussing my proposed amendment. It seems to me that when a person applies to a justice of the peace for a warrant to invade the sanctity and privacy of a man's dwelling house-to go into his "castle," to use the old legal language, he should make an affidavit for it, and that that affidavit should state the facts and circumstances upon which he predicates his claim to the warrant. To permit a person to go before a justice of the peace, take an oath and then send a constable into any man's private house and ransack private apartments, is entirely too loose a mode of protecting the rights of perSOBS. There can be nothing wrong about requiring a complainant to file an affidavit, stating the facts which constitute the probable cause, and then the justice of the peace will have some record before him to determine whether there is any proba)le cause, for in many of these cases there is none. If it was put down in writing, the individual claiming this warrant might bec(.me responsible at some future time, to the party whose house he might require to be searched. If there be probable cause, it can be written down and sworn to. Mr. BENJAMIN. Mr. President: This provision is in the language of the eCoCnstitution of the United States. I will direct the attention of members to this clause, "and no warrant shall be issued without probable cause." Now, that implies that there must be a statement of ifacts which would, in the opinion of'the magistrate, amount to probable cause. TuThe amendment requires, if I recollects the language, that there should be a particular statement of the facts. Now, that would be merely a repetition of the idea which is embraced in the phrase "probable cause,'bbecause there must necessarily be a statement of faces, in order that the magistrate may see that there is probable ecause. It is the'generalppractice, I believe, for the magistrate to require the application for a warrant to be reduced to writing. In some cases it is necessary that the warrant be issued without the least possibledelay, and justice might be defeated by the delay of writing out the affidavit. fSuch, however, would only be exceptional cases. Mr. HAINES, of Lake (in his seat). weNo. That is not the practice. Mr. GOODHUE. Mr. President: I am heartily in favor of the amendment suggested by the gentleman fr om Brownr [Mlr. Valdevenlterj, and I trust that the Convention will carefully consider it. I have one or two suggestions to which I desire to call careful attention, before gentlemen vote upon this question, which, to my mind, is of vast importance. Its importance has been suggested to my mind, by the laws in our State, in relation to capias, which require that before a man can be taken on capias, he must make oath to certain facts, which it is entirely unnecessary for me now to mention. Prior to some of the decisions of the supreme court of this State, affidavits were made under the statutes then in existence. Upon the supreme court decidiDg that these affi.]avits, made under the statutes, were not sufficient, on account of the constitutional provision in relation to imprisonment for debt, it then became necessary that affidavits should embrace something more than was required by the statute at the time. The practical effect of these decisions, which have been received with approbation throughout the State, has been to almost but not entirely put an end to these arrests for debt throughout the State. Now, the point to which I desire to call the attention of this Convention is that notwithstanding the decisions of our supreme court, as to what facts are necessary to be set forth and alleged in affidavits of this character, a man can now go iota a magistrate's office, make an oral oath, in pursuance of the old statutes, without conforming to the requirements of the Constitution of this State, as expounded by the courts, and upon oath can receive a capias, there being no means of information furnished any where, as to whether the law has been answered, or whether the provisions of the Constitution have been complied with. It is a secret in the breast of the magistrate. There is the only place where he keeps his record, and under this system, very great, though not numerous abuses, have sprung up in various portions of the State. Many of them have co-me under my notice. The recital of the magistrate, in his warrant, is, that oath was made, but there is no means of ascertaining what the character of that oath was. There is no means of knowing what were the terms, the allegations and statement in that oath, furnishing the basis for a warrant. Mir. VAKNDEVENTER. Unless the gentleman desires to make a speech, I may perhaps save him somne trouble. I shall withdraw my amendment. Mr. GOODHIUE. That ends the matter. Mr. ALLEN, of Alexander. As the gentleman from Brown [Mr. Vandevea ter] has withdrawn his amendment, I nesw move that we strike out "oath or affirmnation," atld insert "affidavit."' dir. ANTHONY. I hope the amendment offered by the gentleman from Alexander [Mr. Allen] will not be adopted. The section as it stands is precisely the same as that in the Co~nstitution of the United States. Mr. WAGNIER. Mr. President: I move the previo~us question uponI the amendment and the section. The motion for the previous question was agreed to and the main question ordered. i seek to dispense with the right of trial by jury in the proceedings to that enid. Even under the present Constitution, sir, laws have been enacted, which, in my judgment, have led to great abuses by dispensing with jury trials, and by appoiiting commissioners in lieu of juries, with power to condemn private property, without giving the owner of such property any fair and just opportunity to be heard. I am utterly opposed to any change in the Constitution which will make it more easy than it is now for those mammoth corporations, which are becoming so powerful and so regardless of the rights of the pleople, to condemn private property for their use. If they must take and condemn private property to their use, as of course they must in many instances, let them take and appropriate it in pursuance of the general law of the land governing trials. Let them proceed substantially according to the course of the common law applicable to the determination of legal issues. Let us not sanction this proposed discrimination in their favor in derogation of the rights of private individuals. Let both be subject in their controversies to the same kind of trial. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The question is on the amendment proposed by the gentleman from Adams [Mr. Skinner]. The amendment was not agreed to. Mr. ROSS. Mr. President: I have an amendment to offer. I do not see any propriety in putting in the first line the words "as heretofore enjoyed." It might be regarded as a constitational limitation to prevent the Legislature from repealing any laws in relation to juries. It might become a question of importance if the Legislature should desire to make any char-ge in the law with reference to trial by jury, whether the Constitution would not enforce the exact course of procedure now provided for by law in our State. I move to strike out "as heretofore en joyed." Mr. ALLEN, of Alexander. Mr. President: I hope the motion to amend will not prevail. The right of trial by jury, as heretofore enjoyed, is a right well understood, It is a constitutional right that we provide shall remain inviolate. These words are to be found in most of the Coinstitutions. They are to be found in the present Constitutionn of the State of New York, and, indeed, are so well understood as to free them from doubtful meanling. We know how this right has been enjoyed, and need have no fear in the future. The question being upon the motion of M~r. Ross, to strike out the words "hitherto enjoyed," it was not agreed to. Mr. FORMAN. I propose the following amendment to the section: Add at the end of the section the following: "And a concurrence of three-fourths of a jury in all cases shall constitute a verdict." ~ir. BRO WNIN G. 1 move the previous question on the amendment and the section. The motion for the previous question was agreed to, and the main question ordered. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The question is upon the amendment offered by the gentleman from Fayette [Mhr. Forman]. The amendment offered by Mr. Forman was niot agreed to.,~ CONSTIT-UTIONAL CON'VFNTION 1568 F.RIDAY, API 9 80 EAE - RCEIG.16 There are other gentlemen who may be disposed to enter the discussion of the question, and I shall not add anything to what I have said on this and a former occasion. Mr. SEDGWICK. Mr. President: I move the previous question upon the whole subject. The motion for the previous question was agreed to, and the main question ordered. The PRESIDENT, pro temnpore. The question is upon the substitute offered by the gentleman from Lee [Mr. Dement]. Mr. DEMENT. Mr. President: I call for the yeas and nays. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The Secretary will read the substitute. The Secretary read the substitute offered by Mr. Dement, as follows: go grand jury shall be impanneled in circuit or county courts, after the end of the first General Assembly, after the adoption of this Constitution; but offenses shall be prosecuted on information in such manner as may be provided by law:'Provided, that after the year 1874, grand juries may be re-established by law. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The yeas and nays are ordered on the adoption of the substitute. Mr. FULLER. Mr. President: I -wish to suggest ["Object," "object."] Mr. HAINES, of Lake. Mr. President: I wish to inquire as a matter of privilege. I wish to have the gentleman from Lee [Mr. Dement] explain The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The gentleman from Lake [Mr. Haines] is out of order. Mr. MEDILL. Mr. President. I should like to hear the substitute read: The Secretary read the substitute offered by Mr. Dement, as follows: No grand juries shall be impaneled in ci rcuit or county courts after the end of the first General Assembly, after the adoption of this Constitution, but offenses shall be prosecutedon information in such manner as may be provided by law: Provided, that after the year 1874, grand juries may be re-established by law. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The question is on the adoption of the substitute offered by the gentleman from Lee [Mr. Dement]. The yeas and nays were ordered, and being taken, resulted-yeas, 29; nays, 23 — as follows: Cary, Neece, Tubbs, Craig, P3irce, Wright Ellis, Pillsbury, Mr. President-.-31 English, So the substi tute offered by Mr. De ment was agreed to. Mr. WALL. Mr. President: I move to r e cons i derh the vote by which the sub stitute was adopted. I do this for the purpose of correcting what seems to be an omission. It provides that "in co unty or circuit courts" no gran d jury s hal l be impaneled. I desire to have those words "in county or circuit courts" stricken out, so as tc leave the provision general and applicable to all the courts in the State. I certainly do not wish to see the sys tem abolished in part of the courts and retained in part-the court of common pleas, superior court, and the like. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The question is on the motion to reconsider the vote by which the substitute offered by the gentleman from Lee [Mr. Dement] was adopted. The motion was agreed to. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The question now is on the adoption of the substitute. Mr. BROWNING. Mr. President: It is with extreme reluctance that I occupy the attention and time of the Convention for a single moment. I have refrained from speaking upon many subjects of interest from the exceeding anxiety I feel that we should come to the conclusion of our labors, but I regard this as one of the very important questions that has been before us, and one that is calculated in its practical operations, if the substitute be adopted, to bring upon us a great many evils — Mr. WAGNER. Mr. President: I rise to a point of order. If I understand correctly, the previous question is not yet exhausted. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The point of order is well taken, as the previous question was ordered upon the adoption of the section as well as upon the amendments. Mr. WENDLING. Mr. President: I motve that we reconsider the vote by which the previous question was ordered. Mr. BROWNING. No; I will not allow that to be done. I will cheerfully submit if I am out of order. Mr. WENDLING. I insist upon my motion, Mr. President. The motion was agreed to. Mr. BROWNING. I voted against the reconsideration, Mr. President, but as the question is now open, I think it of sufficient importance to justify me in occupying the attention of the Convention for a very few minutes. To abolish the institution of the grand jury, which is interwoven into the very texture of our government, to which the people have been accusto~med throughout the whole period of our existence as a nation, to which our ancestors had been accustomed for centuries before, and to which they were and we are more indebted for the protection of lives, liberties, and property, and for the preservation of peace and good order in society, than perhaps to any other single feature of our entire judicial ~ystem, will open the door to the introduction of manifold inconveniences and evils, of which we have:not, at this time, any proper conception. Who here would be willing to have hims~elf, or any of his family, orwany The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The question is upon the amendment of the gentleman from Alexander [Mr. Allen] to insert the word "affidavit." The amendment cfered by Mr. Allen, of Alexander, was agreed to. ["Division.] The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. A divisio n of the questiom has been called for, and the opinion of the Chair is that the secti on is susceptible of being di vided. The question will first be taken upon the first part of the sec tion, as follows: SEC. 7. The right of the Deople to be secure in thei r persons, hou ses, pape rs a nd effects, against unreasonable search es and seizur es, shall not be violated. The first branch of section seven was agreed to. The PRESIDENT, pro tempor. The question will now be taken upon the last par t of the s ection, as follows: An d n o warrant shall issue w ithout probable caus e, supported b y affidavit particularly descrbing th e place to be sea rched, a nd the persons o r things to be seized. Th e last branch of section seven was agreed to. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. Section seven is declared adopted as an entire sec tion. T he question is now upon section eight. The Secretar y r e d s ection eight, as follows: SEc. 8. All persons shall be bailable by sufficient sureties, unless for capital offenses where the proof is evident or the presumption great; and the privilege of the writ of habeas corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in cases of rebellion or invasion the public safety may require it. Section eight was agreed to. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The question is upon section nine. The Secretary read section nine, as follows: SEC. 9. No person shall be held to answer for a criminal offense unless on indictment of a grand jury, except in cases of petit larceny and offenses less than felony, in which the punishment is by fine or imprisonment otherwise than in the penitentiary, in cases of impeachment, and in cases arising in the army and navy, or in the militia when in actual service in time of war or public danger. Mr. DEMENT. Mr. President: I desire to offer the following substitute for section nine. The Secretary read the substitute offered by Mr. Dement, as follows: No grand, jury shall be impaneled in circuit or county courts, after the end of the first General Assembly after the adoption of this Constitution; but offenses shall be prosecuted on information in suceh manner as may be provided by law: Provided, that after the year 1874 grand juries may be re-established by law. Mr. DEMENT. Mr. President: I intend to make a very few remarks in support of the substitute. We had the same question under discussion a few days since, but the form in which this proposition is now presented, obviates some of the difficullties and objections that were made to it upon the former occasion. This substitute provides for what was supposed might be the interregnum, between the adoption o~f this Constitution and the enactment of necessary laws to fill the place of the grand jury. It also provides that if after an experiment of foaur or five years, it shall slot be found successful and satisfactory to the people, it may be re-established by the General Assembly. ^, 393 Abbott, Fox, Allen, of Alrx.,Gamble, Anderson, Go o dell, Anthony, Hankins, Bayne, Hart, Coolbaugh,'Harwood, Cross, McDowell, Cummings, Medill, Dement, Parker, Forman, Perley, NAYS. Allen, of Crfd.,Goodhue, Atkins, Haines of LIk, Benjamin, Hildrup, Browning McCoy, Church, Parks, Cody, Rice, Eldredge, Ross, Fuller Sharp, i Ariam 29 1870. .DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1569 TEA.S. Sedgwick, Sherrill, Snyder, Ttirnei, Wagner, Wall, Washburn, Whiting, Wilson-29. Springer, Underwood, Vandeventer, reilli, S' Wendling, Wheaton-23. SBWT, OR NOT VOTING. lialnes ofCook,Poage, Hanna, Robinson, Beholfield, Hllyy le, 11 I$kinner, King, glatherland, Merriam, Tincher, Moore, Truesdale, Archer, Bowman, Bromwell, Brown, Bryan, Buxton, Cameron, 157 COSIUINL(O-ET RDY not willing to become the open and acknowledged accusers of those who they alone know to be guilty of crime. Grand jurors are required to keep their own secrets, and under the protection which secrecy gives, timid fmales who know of the commission of crimes, who themselves may have been outraged, will go forward and make disclosures which they would not if publicity were required. Timed men who know of the commission of crime, and fear injury from the malicious persons who may have committed it if they should become the instrument of their prosecution, will be deterred from giving information, from instigating prosecution, if they have to go before the public and proclaim themselves as the persons who set the prosecution on foot, and set the officers of the law upon the track of the offender; but they, sir, will go to the grand jury room, and having around them the shield of its Drotection and of its secrecy will disclose all they know. The offender will not know upon whose information he is prosecuted, until after he is in the custody of the law, and disabled from pursuing with his malice those who have been the instruments of bringing him to justice. Now, sir, abolish the grand jury and what are we to substitute for it? BNo proposition or suggestion has been made as to what shall take its place. But I wish to glance at one or two other things and have not time to discuss the subject further. It is said that grand juries are expensive. True, sir, they are. And so every branch of the machinery of government is expensive. We cannot secure our own rights and protect life, liberty and property; we cannot preserve the good order and peace of societv; we cannot punish offenses or redress wrongs:; we can do nothing in or under government without expense. But, sir, when we have abolished the grand jury, are all prosecutions to be without expense? I do not doubt, that, whatever the cost of maintaining grand juries may be, any machinery we may substitute for them will be attended with yet greater cost. We do not know what we are to do, what we are to have, or where we are to be when we have got rid of the institution of the grand jury. It is urged, further, that a great many indictments found against supposed offenders are afterwairds quashed, or the parties acquitted upon trial. I concede that a majority of those indicted are acquitted on trial. But does that prove that the grand jury is not an institution of value? Why, sir, no lawyer doubts that a majority of all who are acquitted are really guilty of the offenses with which they are charged, and for whicb they have been indicted, no1:withstanding they are properly acquitted. They are entitled to the benefit of all doubt, and it is better that the guilty be acquitted than that the innocent be convicted. But, sir, notwithstanding the guilty are sometimes acquitted, their prosecution is not without good results. The very pros cution is of itself, oftentimes more efficient in the reformation of the i(ffender than his conviction would have been. [Here the hammer fell]. ["Go on." "Go on."] friend or relative, put upon trial for a high crim e, upon the mer e suggestion of some malicious person in the community, who may desire to harrass, annoy and ruin him? The grand-jurymen are taken from every neighborhood of the county. There is, perh aps, not a grand-jury impaneled, that does not secure to every neighborhood of the county in and for which it is impanelled, a representation and a hearing. They bring to the notice and at. tention of their fellows many offenses which otherwise would never be disclosed or prosecuted. They are composed of men of the best intelligence, and of the best substance in a county, and whilst they are careful to disclose all offenses that come to their knowledge from court to court, they are equally- careful- that no person shall be indicted upon frivolous pretenses. It was urged upon the discusssionof this subiect a few days ago, that the grand jury is a lelic of barbarism, entitled to little more regard or consideration, and but little less dangerous, than the Spanish inquisition; that all its proceedings were secret; that malicious persons, and none but malicious persons are called before it; and we would have supposed, from the pictures that were- given us of grand juries, that they were selected from the most corrupt and debased mea in the community, and that the witnesses called before them were men of the most degraded character. Any one listening to the discussion would have supposed depravity and dishonesty to be the characteristics of grand juries and of witnesses go. ing before them. It was said, in the same connection, that persons stimulated by malice, by personal animosity, made their appearance before the grand jury, and gave their statements, which were accepted and acted upon without challenge or cross exa-mination. Investigations before grand juries are but little less thorough than on the trial of cases in court before petit juries. As I remarked, grand juries are composed of men of the first characterin the coun ty. They are taken from the class of the highest respectability and intelligence. and having a regard for their own charac ters, they have a regard for the characters and rights of all their fellow citizens, and no man who comes before a grand jury as a witness, however exalted :he mlay be in his position, however much he may be esteemed for his integrity and veracity, can pass out of the nry room until he has undergone an examination which exacts from him all facts within his knowledge, whether they are for or against the party accused. Honest and upright mlen have a protection in the investigations and action of grand juries that they never had before they were instituted. and that they will never have again if they are abolished. I have not time to go into an extended and full discu,~mon of this questionu. I can only glance at its most salhent points, and Iearnest~ly invoke the attention of the members of this Convention to their consideration. There are multitudes of crimes committ~ed which are prosecuted through the instrumentality of grand juries, that would never be disclosed and never be prosecuted or punished if no grand juries were impanelled. There arc many timid persons who are 3Tr. BROWNING. No, Mr. President, 1570 CONSTITUT10NAL CONVENTION FRIDA'R, I will not transcend the time allowed by the rules. ["Go on." "Go on.',] Mr. BROWNING. No, Mr. President, I will not violate the rules. Mr. WALL. I desire to offer an amend. ment to the original section. The Secretary read the the amendment off,ered by Mr. Wall, as follows: Add to the end of the section: "Provided, that the General Assembly may provide for the abolition of the grand jury in ai'l cases." Mr. WALL. In my judgment we can get along better without a grain d jury than with it. That however, is not the j udgmeut of very many citizens whose opinion is worth much more than mine. There is in the public mind a sort of reverence for the grau(I jury system, which I never could understand, and which, I believe, never can be satisfactorily explained. In i-iy experience at the bar, for ten years, and an experience of about five years as prosecuting attorney, I have been thoroughly convinced and satisfied that all the good results that flow from thegrandjury system, may be accomplished just as well without it, and that the niyriads of evils chat necessarily attend it, may all be avoided. But, as 1. said before, this is not the universal sentiment of the people. There is a division of opinion- upon it, and I think it would be safer to simply entrust the General Assembly with power to abolish the system, if they should fiiid it advisable to do so, and to leave it abolished, if the experience of the State, after they have d4-)tie so, shall warrant it. Mr. HAINES, of Lake. Mr. President: It strikes me that if this Convention is to disturb this time-honored institution, it had better concur in the amendment offered by the gentleman from Perry [Alr. Wall], though his amendment is not as complete as the Convention would be bcutid to make it. The grand jury is one of those institutiODS which has aided our jurisprudence, and has aided civilization. We owe much to tl-iat institution, and whenever we remove it from our system, we olighl to, at the same time, supply somethin else; and if we leave the General Assembly to abolish the grand jury system, without providing something in its place, we shall incur the disa probation of the eo le API 2917.DBTSAD RCEIG.17 Mr. WALL. Mr. President: I wish to ask whether the law is not imperative, that the grand jury shall hear only the witnesses on behalf of the people? Mr. WHEATON. Mr. President: There is no such law. One judge in Peoria county charged a jury that it was their duty to hear both sides of a charge when having a knowledge of testimony on both sides, and such is the meaning of the law. [" What judge?"] Mr. WHEATON. A gentleman asks what judge.:t was Judge Puterbaugh. Anid whenever it comes to the knowledge of the grand jury, that there are witnesses upon the question, whether upon the one side or the other, it is the duty of the grand jury to hear the witnesses, in order that they may true presentment make according to the whole truth. But, sir, why i3 it, upon what ground is it, that the grand jury system which has received the approbation of ages, is now to be abrogated? Is it in the interest of honest men to have it abrogated? Did you sir, ever know in all your expe rience, of a good citizen being injured by the grand jury system? If you have, it is a case of exception. How many in stances, sir, have come within your observation where charges brought before a grand jury have been ignored, because they were the offspring of malice? But by its abrogation, you leave the door open to any body influenced by partisan spirit, or petty malice, to b,rake an information, and put a person on trial without a preliminary investigation of the charge by a grand j ury of honest and well meaning citizens. How wide the door will be thus thrown open! The courts will be coutinually ocd copied in trying cases of petty malice. Side issues attendant upon important civil cases will provoke charges against leading witnesses, in order to put parties to additional expense and annoyance, and break down testimony. The courts, I say, sir, will be full of such business. It is said that honest and respectable citizens-men guiltless of the offenses with which they arecharged-are being injured by this grand jury system. And, in proof of that, it is averred that many parties who have been indicted have been acquitted. Well, sir, does it necessarily f Ifoll)w that those parties were innocent of the charge? Does it follow that the grand jury erred in the presentment they made? Acquittals or convictions do not take place il consequence of indictments, but in consequence of the proof introduced before the petit jury that tries the case. It is no evidence that the grand jury is a failure because acquittals are more nut amerous than convictions under the grand jury system-even if it were true. It does not follow that our system of criminal jurisprudence is all wrong, because criminals escape the justice that ought to be meted out to them. The imperfections of all such trials arise fb om the'imperfections of human testimony. If men were constituted alike, or the human mind always looked at the same question in the same light and from the same standpoint, undoubtedly the same result would always be arrived at. But as long as it looks from different standpoints and jurors view evidence differently, so long men will be acquitted or convicted where the acquittal or conviction may be wrong. i t i I t i s t t s a 0 c c I t is c a APRIL 2911870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 15-71 every change is reform, and if they could so change the course of the moon, that .the position of the earth would never again see its light, it would to them be a reform. If: they could so. change the motion of the earth that this part of it would never aoain see a summer's day, it, would to such be a reform. Every change is not reform. Some take it for granted that grand jurors are a set of born pirates, bound to do injustice to somebody on all occasions. It is not so. They can be as careful and considerate in their deliberations as an open court. Thei e is nothing in the way of putting any safeguard around the deliberations of the grand jury necessary to secure'ustice There is nothing in the way of prescrib iDg any rules with reference to the grand 'ury that will cure all the evils complained oi. Is it claimed that the prosecuting at torney may, upon his own motion, put a person upon trial? That can be done if this provison is adopted. It is the right of every person charged with an offense, to have his case passed upon by some deliberative body, in the nature of a grand jury, so that he may not be put to the expedse of a trial, when he is clearly not guilty. Mr. WHEATON. Mr. President: One ,of the great differences between a coiastitutioiriat government and any ottier, is that no man can be put upon trial upon any criMiDal information, except he shall fir,,t have had a hearing before a body of -his peers. That is the great distinguishidg'mark, of the English constitution over any other upon the European contijaedt. It was the marked distinction between the government, or privileges, which our forefathers wrested, from the king of England, the difference between that gov ernmetit aud that courtry, aiid the governmetit and country of Fraiace. In France, from time immemorial, as Dow, every man can be put upon his trial with out haViDg the question as to whether he shall be put upon trial or not flrst passed upon by the_bt)dy of his county. In this ,country, as in EDgland, it has been oiie of the landmarks of our liberty.,hat no man ,could be put upon his trial (as in France) before any court, upon criminal iliforination, until first the body of his county has But is that a reason why a system which has stood the test of ages should be abolished and we all set afloat? As the gentleman from Lake [Mr. Haines] says, "what will we substitute?" Shall any man, who will do so, be at liberty to set in motion a charge against a citizen and put him immediately upon his trial without any preliminary investigation? Is that better than a grand jury system? If not, what will the geiitletuan give us in place of this bod.,y of twentyfour of the m,-)st respectable. men in the county? Touseavu.1gar-expression,shall "Tom,- Dick and Harry" bririg any.citizen they please into court, and, as in France, compel him immediately to come to trial, and run his chance of acquittal or conviction a-ainst purjured witnesses or othelwise? Or when a criminal information is lodged agaiD,-,t a good citizen, shall he have the right to have it passed upon by a body of his peers? So far a:3 criminals are concerned, it makes no earthly difference whether the investigation. is first by the grand jury or they are put on trial immediately, because if they have violated the law, its s,vift vengeance cannot be meted out to to them too soon. They should have a fair trial, but cannot complain of its speediness. Honest, law.abidiing, citizens, however, have a right to have this barrier interposed between them and danger of unjust conviction. [Here the hammer fell]. Mr. ANTHONY. Mr. Pres'dent: I do not desire to renew the discussion on this subject that we had the othcr day. I desire that our labors may, c(.)me to an end, and that we go home and submit this Constitution to the people, I shall do everything I can to accomplish that greit.,end. I rise now simply to'Say that I shall support the proposition of the gentleman from Perry [Mr. Wall]. I am willilig to leave the Legislature to introduce the necessary machinery to take'.he place of the grand jury. I will, however, correct a statement made by the gentleman from Ktine [Mr. Wheaton.], and say that the graud jury is kuown in history merely as a)i accusatorial body. It has -Dever been anytbiog else. That is its whole history. It has always been an accusatorial tribunal. '1't. (~TT1I~LC~ETO RDY though it is the neighbor of my friend from Cook [ Or. Medill], itis a crown-law State, andmy reason for placing it in that . category is this-that though you may be placed inside of a prison there, on a misdemeanor, if you happen to slip through the door of that prison, you are sent to the penitemtiary for that offense. Is not that crown law? I maintain that is a relic of barbarism, and should have no consideration in this Convention. iThe whole argument is in favor of the good old institution of grand juries, and I will take the lights in favor of that, as we see them. Here are only two States that have attempted to make any innovation upon'the institution, while all the rest of the thirty-seven States have this system in full force today. The Constitution of the United States has declared that no man ,shall be put on his trial for any criminal offense, unless indicted by a grand jury. The abolition of the grand jury is just what the criminal would want. What would we do with all these drinking saloons? Pick them up one by one, and try them. By force of the grand jury system we can cumulate any number of cases all in one indictment, and try five hundred cases under one single trial; but abolish our grand jury and the result will be that we turn every man loose and put the peaceable citizens in the hands of these culprits and vagabonds. I am in favor of the venerable institution, and I hope the good judgment of this Convention will maintain it. I say let us stand to the sheet-anchor of our liberties-let us sink into insignifi cant air that miserable idea that cost is to attach in place of the great shield of American freemen. Mr. ALLEN, of Alexander. Mr. President: I have been asked why it was that I voted for the substitute of the:gentleman from Lee [Mr. Dement], and consequently against my own article on the subject of grand juries. The section under consideration dispenses with the grand jury in all misdemeanors, in all offenses where the party convicted is not to be confined in the penitentiary. That was the best thing I could get before the committee of which I was chairman. While I did not get all that I desired, I agreed with a majority of the committee to report the section as it is, it being the understanding that every individual member should support such portions of the report as met the approval of his judgment. I have been asked, and other members who are in favor of abolishing the grand jury system, have been asked by lawyers upon this floor what we propose to do in the event of its abolition-how we propose to. try persons charged with crime. That is a remarkable question to come from lawyers. It is well known that in States where the grand jury system doesI not prevail, persons are brought to trial by information, and that their rights are as well secured by information as by indictment. And, again, it has been said in defense of this venerable system by the gentle t man from Kane [Mr. Wheaton] that a grand jury in our own State call hear both sides of the question, and that too in the face of the one hundred and eighty-seventh section of our criminal code, which positively prohibits a grand jury from hearing but one side. It has been said to be an experiment. In all complaints exhibited before the grard jury of any county, they shall hear the witnesses on behalf of the people only; and may find an indictment on the oath of one witness only, or upon the information of two of their own body, except in cases of treason or perjury, where at least two witnesses to the same fact shall be necessary; and in finding a bill of indictment, at least sixteen of the grand jury shall be present, and at least twelve of them shall agree to the finding. The forman of the grand jury may swear or affirm all witnesses that may come before the jury. Several of the States know nothing about this so-called "venerable system." There has been no grand jury system in operation for fifty one years in the State of Connecticut, except where punishment would be capital, or impni~risonment for life. In our sister State of Michigan, there is no grand jury system, and yet that is the only State in the west having a university to which we can send our young men to become learned in the law. It is a State whose judicial system stands as high as any in the west. Gentlemen say the abolishing of the grand jury is a startling innovation. It is a healthy reformation promising larger protection of the liberty and the reputation of individuals. I have known many men whose reputations have been absolutely destroyed by some secret enemy going into this receptacle of malice. Stain a man's character by an indictment,and if he afterwards gets a trial, some time elapses before he has the opportunity of manifesting his innocence, however false the charm. .15112 CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION FR-IDAY, life out in search of wisdom, said that vanity and vexation- were the result, for after my friend from Lee [Mr. DemeDt] 'has far passed the meridian of life, lie comes before the Convention and proposes a iiew system for the generations that are to follow him. I say to him while I am probably not much behind hi!n, I still hold to the old doctrine. Now, sir, when Gentlemen compare our grand jury system to; the star chamber, it occurs to me that they talk about a proposition regarding which they are perfectly ignorant. Gentlemen have stated that this institution is a relic of the star chamber. I would like to hear any gentleman upon this lloor state in what position it can possibly be placed in which it can bear any kind of relation to the institution of the star chamber. It had nothing to do with the star chamber. It is not the forty-ninth cousin of the star chamber. The star chamber, it will be recollected, was an institution instituted for the, benefit of the crown. It is equally understood, sir, that the court of high commissioners was another appendage instituted for the same purpose, and in order to inflict desperation upon the solemn rights of the people, and udon their civil rights, there was another kind of institution instituted, called the court martial. These three institutions just carried out what the crown desired, and by the warrant of the Privy " Council, could throw into prison any citized, and confine him there to rot out without trial. Mr. President, this.old good institution of the grand jury organized as a bulwark, as a wall of defense between the star chamber, the court of high commissioners, and the court martial, to protect the rights of the people; and when gentlemen say that it is a relic of the star chamber, they talk certainly about a thing that never did exist.. Now, I have heard it announced here that it is a kind of expensive institution' Why, Mr. President, when I came to this Convention, I did not intend that any man in this Convention, upon the system of economy, should beat me. But, in that I have been distanced. I believe, if I had become so chronic with that disease as some gentlemen seem to ha-,,e become, I would regard myself as v, sacrilegious wretch, wilpiug to scra e Mr. UNDERWOOD. Does not the grand jury summon everybody that they know has any knowledge of the offeiase? Mr. ALLEN, of Alexander. They summon just whom they are told by the prosecutor are necessary to sustain the prorecution, and carefully refrain front bringing before them any witness, who it is thought will be of the slightest possible advantage to the accused in the way of manifesting his innocence. Mr. SPRINGER. Does the gentleman propose that the officer who receives an information, shall examine both sides of the case, before the party is put on trial? Xr. ALLEN, of Alexander. We propose that it shall be the duty of some officer to draw up the information, present it, and demand that the accused meet it. Mr. SPRINGER. Do you propose to hear testimony upon both sides of the case? Mr. ALLEN, of Alexander. I do, sir. When a person is charged with crime itis the right of the accused to be heard by counsel and witnesses-to meet the accuser face to face. It is but a poor privilege to be allowed to do so, after his character has been blighted by the curse of a baseless indictment, procured it may be to gratify malice, hatred, and revenge upon the part of some one instigating the prosecution. Mr. ANTHONY. The.4ystem which prevails in London to-day is that the party is charged with crime before a magis. t.rate, and examined with the witnesses upon both sides. When examined, if there be probable cause, it is certified to the queen's coursel. It is proposed to have two trials. Mr. ALLEN, of Alexander. Mr' President - Section 187, to -,which I have ad. verted provides: FINDING INDICTMENTS. APRIL 29, 1870. DEBATES AD PROCEEDINGS 1573 So the amendment offered by Mr. Wall was agreed to. Mr. DEMENT. Mr. President: If I am in order I will withdraw my substi tute, as the amendment is adopted. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The Chair supposes that it IS in order to withdraw the substitute, as the amendment was to the section and not to the substi tute. Mr. BROWNING. Mr. Pre,Aident: I understood the amendment was to the substitute. If it was to the section, I wish to change my vote upon the amend ment. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The Secretary will make the change. Mr. ELDREDGE. Mr. President: I was under the same impression a. the gentleman from Adams [Mr. Browning] when I voted. I wish to change my vote. Mr. GOODHUE. Mr. President: I desire to do the same thing. Mr. UNDERWOOD. Mr. President: I wish to do the same thing for the same as suggested by the gentleman from Adams [Yr. Browning]. The PRESIDENtP, pro tempore. The question is upon the adoption of the section as amended. The Secretary read section nine, as amended, as follows; SEC. 9. No person shall be held to answer for a criminal offense unless on indictment of a grand jury, except in cases of petit larceny and offenses less than felony, in which the punishment is by fine or imprisonment, otherwise than in the penitentiary; in cases of impeachment, and in cases arising in the army and navy, or in the militia when in actual.ervice in timne of war or public danger: Provided, That the General Assembly niay provide for the abolition of the grand jury in all cases. aThe PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The question is on the adoption of the sectLion. Mr. McCOY. Mr. President: I call for the yeas aid nays. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The yeas and nays are not ordered, a sufficient" number failing to second the call. The question is on the section. Section nine, as amended, was agreed to. I propose not to go on further, at thi late hour, with the discussion. While the proposition of my friend from Lee [iMr. Demerit] has my concur rence- the committee having adopted the idea of only abolishing the grand jury system in cases of misdemeanors —in order to harmonize the Jlreuds of true reform on this subject and get something practi cal, I am disposed to sustain the propo sition of my friend from Perry [Mr. Wall], and leave the Legislature to finish up the work we have commenced. The section abolishes the grand jury system so far as misdemeanors are concer-ned, anid I trust the Legislature will provide for the balance. Public sentimeut will not allow long delay. I move the previous question. DMir. TINCHER. I move the previous question. Air. SKINNER Does the gentleman move the previous question after his speech? Mr. DE MENT. Yes. SMr. P.ARKS. I hope the gentleman will withdraw it for a few minutes. ["No," "No," "No."] Air. ALLEN, of Alexander. I am in the hand, of my friends, and must insist on the previous question. The motion for the previous question was agreed to, and the main question orde red. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The question' is on the adoption of the amendmenit offered by the gentleman from Perry [Mr. Wail]. The Secretary read the amendment offered by Mr. Wall, as follows: Add to the section: Provided, That the General Assembly may provide f/)r the abolition of the grand jury in all cases. ache leas and nays were ordered. i The Secretary proceeded to call the roll. lvlr. DEM,vIENT (when his name was called) said: I shall vote for the amend meat, for I regard that as an improvemenut o a the section as it stands. Mr. PARE(S ( vhen his name was called) salk: Mr. President: I shall vote for the amendment, because that is better than abolishing the grand jury. The result was then anuouniced-yeas as confiinag a murderer in jail before trial, if he could furnish bail. The intention of the committee in this section mav have been otherwise, but in view of the manifest tendency to abolish the death penalty in this State, it seems to me there may have been an oversight here. I wish, therefore, to reconsider the vote upon section eight. Mr. SKINNER Mr. President: I wish to say that changing the punishment for murder would not change its character as a capital offense. That was the view taken of it. Mr. ALLEN, of Alexander. That Mr. President,, was my view. The gentleman can give notice of a motion to reconsider, if it should seem desirable. Mr. ATKINS. I will give notice, Mr. President, of a motion to reconsider, without insisting upon it now. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The question is on,ection eleven. The Secretary real section eleven, as follows: SEC. 11. No person shall be compelled, in any criminal case, to give evidence against himself, or be twice put in jeopardy for the same offense. Section eleven was agreed to. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The question is on section twelve. The Secretary read section twelve, as follows: The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The question is on section teln. The Secretary read section ten, as follows: SEc. 10. In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall be allowed to appear and defend in person and with counsel; to demand the, nature and cause of the accusation against him, and to have a copy thereof; to meet the Wi nesscs face to lace, and to have compuli sory process to procu,re the attendance of witCnerbe in his behalf, and a speedy public tri-al by an impartial jury of the county or district in which the offense is alleged to have been committed. Section ten was agreed to. iMr. ANTHONY. Mr. President: To facilitate business, I suggest that the Chair declare sections adopted, unless there be objections. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The question is upon section eleven. Mr. ATKINS. Mr. President: I beg the indulgence of the Convention to call attention back to the first line of section eight. Supposing capital punishment to be hereafter abolished, then there would be no "capital offenses" in the State, and a man guilty of the most atrocious murder would have the constitutional right to baiL There would then be no such thing 0 1 t i t t I APRIL 29, 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS 1573 Sp,c.12. Allpenalt;esshallbeproportioned to the, nature of the offense, the true design of all punishment being to reform, not to exterminate mankind. Mr. UNDERWOOD. Mr. President,.The objects of punishment are two fold, if I recollect Blackstone correctly. One is to protect society against offt-,uses, and the other is to reform the offet-ider. Correspondidg With that idea, I move to strike out all after the word "reform," itL second li.tie, and insert the f)ltowingz: "offenders, And protect society." ,Mr. PARKS. Mr. Presideni: The language the c,)mmittee adopted is taken, literally, I believe, from the present Con,stitutioti, and, I believe is good enough. The questif)n bc —inL, on the amendment ,)ff,,red by Mr. Uuderwood, it was not ag reed to. Mr. H,&INES, of Lake. Mr. Presidelit: I (-)ffer the f,)Ilowing amendment to be added to the section: "The death penalty stialt Dever be inflicted." 4r. TINCHER. I move to lay that amendment on the table. The yeas aild iiays were ordered, and beidg taken, resulted-yeas, 55, nava, 4 -as f(-)Ilows: 38, liays 20-as follows: YEAS. Abbol,t, Gamble, Alleii of Alex.,Goodell, A.uderson, Hart, AnthoDy, Harwood, Bayne, Ilildrup, Cody, McDowell, Cooibaugh, Medill, Cross, Parker, Caulini]3gs, Parks, Dement, Perley, Foi-man, Poage, Fox, Ross, Fuller, Be —tgwick, Sberrill' Snyder' Tit-tetier, Tubbs, Turner, Vandeventer, Wagner, wart, W,ishburn, Wetidling, WilitiDg, Wilson-38. YEAS. NAYS. Allen of Crlfd.,Eldredge, Sbarp, Arelier, Goodhue, S.k.inner, Atkins, Haiiies of Lal-,e,.Spriiiger, Benjamin, Hankius, U tiderwood, Browiii,19, McCoy, Wait, Bryan, Moore, Wheaton-20. Curen, Rice, Abbott, Fuller, .kilen of Alex. Gamble, Allen of Crfd.,Goodell, ADderson, Goodhtie. Anttionv, Raiikins, Archer, Hart, Atkins, Harwood, Bayne, I-lildrup, Benjamin, McCoy, Browning, MeD,)well, Bryan, Medill, Cary, Moore, Church, Parks, Cody, Perley, Coolbaugh, Peirce, Cross, Poage, Dement Rice, Forman,I Ross, Fox, Sedgwick, Sharp, Sherrill, Skinner, Springer, Tincher, Tubbs, Turner, Underwood, Vandeventer, Wagner, Wait, Wall, Washburn, Wendi-iig, Wheaton, Whitin, WilsolltolL BSENT, OR NOT VOTING. Haines ofOolk,Pillsbary, hanua, Robinson, Hay, Beholfield, Hayes, SuLheriand, King, Truesdale Merriam, Wells,' Neece, Wrihf-,, Peirce, Mr. President-25. 'Bowman, Bromwell, Brown, Buxton Camero, Cary, CraiL-, Eiii, English, W.Qli 1574 CONSTITUTIONAL COYNTIOX FRIDAY, If the accused is found guilty, all the law has to do is to award the punishment for the crime, and inflict the penalty upon him in accordance with the statute. I therefore hold that the clause to which I object ought to be stricked out. The section will read better without it, and then all the other reasons for the rule can be understood. As it stands now, it would seem as though the clause were intended to give the only reason, which I have shown is not a correct one, and is palpably refuted in the most important of all criminal cases-those for capital offenses, where extermination,' and not reform, is the punishment awarded. Mr. HAINES, of Lake. I will withdraw my objection -to the acceptance of the amendment by the chairman. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The question will then be upon the adoption .,f the section, as amended. Section twelve, as amended, was agreed ciety, unless the- law affords relief against them? Unquestionably the people of the State of Illinois are opposed to imprisonment for debt where the debt is honest, yet it is not their voice that their Constitution shall sanction the practice of fraud. What is the next provision of the section? "Or in cases where there is a strong presumption of fraud." That has reference to imprisonment on moese process. So a party may be imprisoned, if he has fraudlently contracted the debt, or fraudulently conveyed the means of paying the debt, as where he has conveyed to a relative, so that they are beyond the reach of the law in form. Now shall there be any provisions in the law by which a man shall be compelled to act honestly, and yield his property? The affidavit, by the rules of our supreme court, must state stepby step, wherein that fraud consists. The facts must be detailed, upon which sworn facts the presumption manifestly arises that the party has committed a fraud, and engaged in defrauding the business community out of their money. I hope the amendment will not prevail. Mr. SNYDER. Mr. President: I will ask the gentleman if a citizen cannot be committed on mesne process without the debt being showed and without any other authority than that of the person who applies for the capias? Mr. SKINNER. Mr. President; I must answer that there can be no actual perfection in the agencies of government. We can only approach it. It is enough practically to require that there should be an oath, not only as to the existence of the debt as a bona Jfde debt, but that the other facts should exist and justify the imprisonment-raise practically and plainly a legal presumption of fraud. But, says my friend from St. Clair [Mr. Snyder], by the sworn affidavit of one man, another man is imprisoned without a hearing. No, sir. Our laws provide for a hearing. The party imprisoned may apply for a habeas corpus, and for investigation. He may go before a court of probate, or a county court, as it is now called, and may surrender his estate and have a jury. He may have a jury from that neighborhood, and by the verdict of that jury he either goes back to jail or he is set free. Mr. SNYDER. It is never resorted to on roeshe process. Mr. SKINNER. There are two modes by which a person may have his trial. If in final process or execution, he may have his trial, whether he refuses to surrender up his property in satisfaction or not. Mr. ANTHONY. I move to lay the amendment on the table. The yeas and nays were ordered, and, being taken, resulted —yeas, 43, nays 12, as follows: NMAYB. Cummings, Parker, Snyder-4. Haines of Lake, ABSENT, OR NOT VOTING, Bowman, English, Pillsbury, Bromwell, Haines of CookRobinson, Brown, Hanna, Scholfield, Buxton, Hay, Suthorland, Cameron, Hayes, Truegdale, Craig, King, Wells, Eldredge, Merriam, Wright, Ellis, Neece, Mr. President-24. to. The Secretary read section thirteen, as follows: SEc. 13. No conviction shall work corruption of blood or forteiture of estate; nor shall any person be transported out of this State for any offense committed within the same. Section thirteen was agreed to. The Secretary read section fourteen, as follows: SEc. 14. No person shall be imprisoned for debt, unless upon refusal to deliver up his estate for the benefit of his creditors, in such manner as shall be prescribed by law, or in cases where there is strong presumption of fraud. Mr. CUMMINGS. Mr. President: I move to strike out so much of section fourteen, as will leave the reading of the section, "No person shall be imprisoned for debt." I wish to assign one reason why I want the balance of the section stricken out. When we make the broad assertion in the Constitution that there shall be no imprisonment for debt, we ought to mean what we say. If we do mean it, why add the words, "unless strong presumption of fraud," thereby giving the power whereby a person presuming there is fraud, can imprison another for debt. If we are desirious of punishing a man for committing a fraud, the statute provides the mode and the punishment. Let us leave it with the law making power, and not legislate in the Constitution. Let us enunciate the broad principle that there shall be no imprisonment for debt, leave it in that position, and let the Legislature say what shall be the punishment for fraud. The yeas and nays were ordered. Mr. SKINNER. Mr. President: Upon this t mendment I desire to say a few words. The exception of imprisonment is the same in this section, as in the present Constitution, and it amounts to this, that, if a party shall refuse to surrender his property, where an execution has issued, or conceals it, or makes fraudulent conveyances to get it away, or avoids the payment of his debts, when he has the means to pay it, he shall be imprisoned. What objection is there to imprisoning him? Is the object to license fraud? Is the object that the man against whom there is an execution, shall turn around and evade the payment of the debt by fraudulent practices which are in their nature immoral, and] such as destroy so So the motion of Mr. Tincher, to lay on t he table the amendment offered by Mr. Haines, of Lake, was agreed to. Mr. MEDILL. Mr, President: I move to amend the section by striking out the words, "the true design of all punishment being to reform, and not to exterminate mankind." It seems to me that this is wholly un necessary. It sounds something in the nature of a stump speech. It is an attempt to give a reason for a rule. That might do very well in an argument berore a jury, or as an opinion of a court. Mr. ALLEN, of Alexander. Mr. President: I accept the amendment. Mr. HAINES, of Lake. I do notknow as that accepts it, after all, Mr. President. Mr. MEDILL. I wish to add another word or two, at all events. I was observing that it is not necessary to give a "true" reason, or any other reason for a constitutional injunction of this description in a bill of rights. The bill of rights, sir, consists of affirmations or negations, and of a general proposition, and not of arguments or reasons for what is laid down. The first portion of the sentence commands that all penalties shall be proportioned to the nature of the offense. That is a correct principle, and there is no necessity whatever for giving a reason for it. In the second place, the reason given here is not a sufficient one. It is not all of the reason, and, in my opinion, is not En accurate reason. It ls a partial reason, at best, and an incorrect one in part. If the sentence were to read, "the true design of all punishment being to reform man, and not to gratify revenge," it would be more correctly stated than it is, and yet that would be but a partial reason. When the government hangs a man, it "exterminates" him, but does not "reform" him. The amendment of the gentleman from Lake [Mr. Haines] should be adopted to keep the section from affirming an untruth. If the object of punishment is in all cases to reform, and not to exterminate, we ought to do away with capital punishment. I cannot vote conscientiously for this portion of section twelve, and yet yote for capital punishment, for the object of capital punishment is to exterminate the offender to cut him off from the earth, and hurl him into eternity after his victim. What moral effect such summary process may have upon the people who remain, is tbr casuists to consider. But if a man is guilty of a venial offense, or of a felony, then of course nobody desires that he shall be exterminated for it, for that would be cruel and inhuman. But be must be punished. Whether that punishment will reform him, or reform anybody else is something the law has not any-~ thinlg to do with. The question for the law to consider is, the matter of guilt. Abbott, Fuller, Allen of Alex.,Goodell, Allen of Crwfd, Goodhue, Anthony, Hart, Archer, Hildrup, Atkins, Moore, Benjamin, Parks, Browning, Perley, Bryan, Peirce, Cary, Poaze. Church, Rice, Cross, Sedgwick, Coolbaugh, Sharp' Eldredge, Sherrill, Forman, 1574 CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION FRIDAY, YEAS. Sinner, Springer, Tincher, Tubbs, Turner, Underwood, Vandeventer, Wagner, wait, Washburn, Wells, Wendling, Wheaton Whiting3. 0 AP* 29 80 EAE N RCEIG.17 A division was ordered. The Convention divided, when, there being thirty-five in tle affirmative and sixteen in the negative, the motion was agreed to. So the Convention (at five o'clock and forty-eight minutes) adjourned. NAYS. Anderson, Gamble, Medill, Cummings, Haines of Lake, Parker, Dement, Hankins, Ross, Fox, McDowell, Snyder-12. ABSENT, OR NOT VOTING. Bayne, Haines of CookPillsbury, Bowman, Hanna, Robinson, Bromwell, Harwood, Scholfield, Brown, Hay, Sutherland, Buxton, Hayes, Truesdale, Cameron, King, Wall, Cody, Mc(oy, Wilson. Craig, Merriam, Wright, Ellis, Ne ece, Mr. President-28 English, So the mot io n of Mr. A nth ony, to lay on the table the amendment offered by Mr. Cummings, was agreed to. Mr. CUMiMINGS. Mr. President: I move to strike out the words "or in cases where there is strong presumption of fraud." Mr. SNYDER. Mr. President: The gentleman from Adams [tMr. Skinner] misapprehended what I asked him. I asked him, in the first place, if a man could send a citizen to prison upon the oath of a person under meshe process? He said one could take him before the pr,obate judge and have him make a schedule. We could, then, by the oath of the most malicious scoundrel in the community, imprison any honest man though owing him nothing. Mr. HAINES, of Lake. Mr. President: We are told by lawyers that presumption of fraud must be proved. If that be true, no man should be presumed guilty of fraud unless it be proved. The amendment offered by Mr. Cummings was not agreed to. Mr. CUMMINGS. Mr. President: I now move to strike out the words "where there is strong presumption." If a man commit fraud, let it be proved that he committed it. I am not in favor of imprisoning a man on presumption, but if he is declared guilty of fraud, let it be proved clearly before he is imprisoned. Not that I am so much in debt, not that I am afraid of being imprisoned: but I am opposed to impris.,nment for debt, or on presumption of fraud. Mr. WAGNER. Mr. President: I move the previous question upon the section and the amendmeat. The motion for the previous question was agreed to and the main question ordered. Mr. CUMMINGS. Mr. President: I demand the yeas and nays. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The yeas and nays are not ordered —a sufficient number not seconding the call. The question is on the amendment offered by the gentleman from Fulton [Mr. Cummi~ngs]. A division was ordered. The Convention divided, when, there being fifteen in the affirmative an4 thirtysix in the negative, the amendment was not agreed to. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The question is on the section. Section fourteen was agreed to. Will the gentleman twrom Al exander [Mr. Aller] accept he amendment? Mr. ALLEN, of Alexan der. If the r e is no objection, I am willin g to accep t it, Mr. President. Mr. ROSS. Mr. President: I move to strike out all after the word "jury," in the third line, to the word "law," il the fourth line; also, the amendment offered by the gentleman from Kane [Mr. Wheaton]. Mr. McDOWELL. Mr. Pres'dent: As an amendment to that, I move to strike out all after the word "compensation." Mr. WHEATON. I would inquire, Mr. President, if that is not an amendmeat in the third degree? The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The gentleman from Alexander [Mlr. Allen], on behalf of the committee, accepted the amendment of the gentleman from Kane [Mr. Wheaton]. Mr. ROSS. Mr. President: It occurs to me that a motion to strike out cannot be amended by a motion to strike out a part of the same thing. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. It is in addition. The gentleman from Fulton [Mr. Ross] moves to strike out from the word,jury," to and including the word "law." The gentleman from White [NMr. McDowell] moves to strike out ia addition, all after the word "compensation." Mr. SPRINGER. Mr President: I would like to say simply a word on the amendment proposed by the gentleman from Fulton [Mr. Ross]. I hope it will be adopted. I am opposed to the amendmentof the gentleman from White [Mr. McDcwell], for the reason that the people should be entitled to a jury in assessing damages to property taken for public use. I want that right recognized and guaranteed by the Constitution. The General Assembly has virtually deprived the people of this only sure guarantee against the frauds and oppiessions practiced by private corporations. The course pursued heretofore by the courts in appointing commissioners for that purpose, is almost equal to saying that a railroad corporation may go upon a man's land, condemn it and pay him just what they please. If they think proper, to pay him anything like a reasonable compensation, they do so. If they think proper to say that he may have one dollar for property worth one thousand dollars or two thousand dollars, they have the same right. The owner of the land may appeal, but ~the appeal is expensive, aggrivating, and often attended with difficulties which virtually defeat its object. The manner in which property has been condemned for railroad purposes has been such as to virtually place the property of the people at the disposal of the railroad corporations. It is true, that when commissioners are to be appointed under the statutes providing for the conldemnation of land, three commissioners are selected by the railroad corporation itself, or by the agents of the corporation. They do not go to the body of the people, but theyr select three mnen, after having learned their opinions, their habits, their sympathies and their influence in society, so that they know precisely what their verdict will be in all cases where they may be required to act. They take the namles of these three men to thee judge of the court and say "we want these men ap SATURDAY, April 30,1870. The Convention met at nine o'clock A. M., and was called to order by the President, pro tempore (Mr. Bromwell). PRAYER. Prayer was offered by the Rev. Mr. Carnahan, of Springfield, as follows: Almighty God, Thou art the author of all being and blessing, all light, and all life. The heavens declare Thy glory, and the firmament showeth Thy handiword. The beauteous earth bursting into life around us, speaks of God, and we too would lift up our hearts to Thee, and pray for Thy blessing upon us today. O let Thy grace and Thy light and Thy quickening power descend upon our hearts, enlighten our minds, and lead us in paths of righteousness and truth. Bless this body of men assembled here today. Bless them in person, mind, heart and estate, in all their future wavs, and bring each one, when life and trial, when duty and work are over, to the brighter glories of the heavenly world, through Jesus, our great Redeemer. Amen. READING OF THE JOURNAL. The Secretary proceeded to read the journal of the last day's proceedings, when Mr. VANDEVENTER. Mr. President: I move that the further reading of the journal be dispensed with. The motion was agreed to. LEAVE OF ABSENCE. Mr. McCOY. Mr. President: I desire to ask leave of absence for the gentleman from DeWitt [Mr. Moore], for an indefinite time. Leave was granted nem. con. Mr. SHARP. Mr. President: I desire to ask leave of absence for the gentleman from Gallatin [Mr. Bowman]. Leave was granted nerm con. Mr. ROSS. Mr. President: I desire to ask leave of absence for the gentleman from Montgomery [Mr. Rice]. BILL OF RIGHTS. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The question before the Convention is on the adoption of section fifteen, of article three, of the report of the Committee on Bill of Rights. The Secretary read section fifteen, as follows: SEc. 15. Private property shall not be taken or damaged for public use without just compensation. Such compensation, when not made by the State, shall be ascertained by a jury, or by not less than three commissioners,appointed by a court of record, assahall be prescribed by law. The fee of land taken for railroad tracks, without consent of the owners thereof shall remain in such owners, subject to the use for which it is taken. Swr. WHEATON. Mr. President: I offer the following amendment: in the fourth line of section fifteen, after the word "law," insert the following: "But, in all cases, either party to be affected thereby, shall be entitled to have such compensation ascertained by a jury"-leaving it, Fir. president, optional to either party, either to have the commissioners or a jury. f I t t t APRIL 29, 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1575 EIG.UTY-FOURT-UDAY. ADJOURNMENT. Mr. TINCHER. Mr. President: I move that. the Convention do now adjourn. [4'No," "No," "No."] Mr. TINCFIER. I withdraw the motion. Mr. ATKINS. Mr. President: I renew the motion. *1 157w CO~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~STITUTIO~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~A1~~~~~~~ CO~~~~~~~~~~Y~~~~~XTIO~~~~~~~~~~~~ SATURDAY,~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ tion of the section. The right of the State as secured in that p rtion proposed to be stricken out, must be asserted and whenever the occasion becomes necessary, exercised. The people should take noth ing less. Mr. WHEA_TON. Mr. President: The objection to the amendment of the gentle. man ftom White [Mr. McDowell] is that there is no guarantee to the people of the right of trial by jury, while there ought to be a provision in this section, guaratn teeing a right of trial by jury in such cases. The amendment I introduced left it optional with either party, which of course secured thereby to either par+ty the right of such trial. Either party, to be affected thereby, shall be entitled to have such compensation ascer tained by a jury. I have no objection to the amen'ment of the gentleman from Fulton [Mr. Ross]. It would correspond with my ideas to make trial by a jury cgmpul sory. But, thinking perhaps, that there might be those who desired to leave it op tional to the party, my amendment guar aniteed the right if desired, for in many cases the parties might be willing to leave the commissioners to ascertain their compensation. I believe, sir, that in all these cases, a right of trial by jury should be guaranteed by the Constitution, and that no man should be stripped of his land with o ut such compensation, ascertained by a jury, as hlie is entitled to. Landis taken by railroad corporations for public uses have been spoken of by the gentleman from Madison [Mr. Springer]. That is not the only evil that the people comr plain of. In our cities it has got to be a crying evil, that the land of citizens is taken ostensibly for the purpose of streets or imT provement. In such cases, compensationis nominally assessed, by the board of comr missioners, without giving any compensation, whatever. It has been the custom i n many of the cities of our State for the ca)mmoni council to appoint three commissio ners to ascertain the damages and benefits in every case for the taking of land fi)r making a street. But, as I have had occasion to know in my own practice, they make thie damages and the benefits, equal, so that the citizen gets nothing. I have seen cases where they have run a street through a front dioor yard, taken in a man's most valuable improvements; and yet, in every case have made the damages and benefits equal-just making one hand wash the other; whereas, if the damages were ascertained by a jury, a onma would get the compensation to whichs he might be entitled. It is a shrewd way of dodging the Constitutional proVlslOn. If this section is left as suggested by the getleman from White [Mr. McDoweli] one man may assess the damages and elude the provisions of the Constitution by making the benefits in all cases equal the damages so that no compensation really will be rendered to the citizen for taking of his land. I hope the amendment of the gentleman from White [Mr. McDowell], fi)r these reasons, will not prevail, but that the amendment of the gentleman from Fulton [Mr. Ross], or my own, guaranteeichg to each party, either on his own ap pointed to assess the damages we have to pay for the land condemned for our purposes." The consequence is that men lose their property, the title passing out of them by operation of law, without any act of their own, and without remedy, except on appeal; and even then, all the chances are against them, by having the verdict of these commissioners rendered and the court committed against their cause. They have not the least chance for j us tice. The notice required by the statute to be given to parties interested, befoi-e their property is condemned, is wholly insufficient. It secures no protection against fraud. As the practice now is, commissioners may notify the land holder to meet them on the premises, or else where, on a day named, to assess their damages. The commissioners never reach the ground at the time. The owner of the land has no knowledge of when they will be there. He may appear at the time fixed, but not finding the commissioners, he, of course, returns to his business pursuits. At any time after he is gone the commissioners arrive. They walk over his premises, condemn his land and fix his compensation therefor. They examine no witnesses as to the value of the property taken. lIn their own breasts they Consider the question, and in the great majority of cases they fix the amount of damages at the trifling sum of one dot lar, when the property taken is worth hundreds-perhaps thousands-of dollars, and a great expenditure of money is necessary to repair resulting damages. W here is the j ustice in this policy? It is virtually depriving a man of the right to occupyand!control his own property, or of fixing the value of it when it is to be transterred from his hands to somebody else. It has been taken without consulting him, and under the statute of the State the title has passed out of him, anid is vested in a private corporation. He has a title in his laud the title warranted to him by the government of the United States, yet it is really taken from him by force of the power of the State, without a hearing, without having his rights considered in any respect, and without just compensation being made therefor. This is a grievous evil which the people of the State demand shall be redressed, and that they shall be protected from by constitutional provision. In my judgfmenlt, wve fail in our dutty if we- fail to) guard agdinst the repetition of these abuses by fundamental lalw. I hope the amendment of the gentleman from Foulton [Mur. Ross] will be adopted. Mr. ALLEN, of Alexander. AMr. President: There is no desire that I know of, on the part of any one, to prevent parties where lanls are taken for railroad pu.rposes, having a jury to assess the damnages. Most of the evils claimed by the gentleman from Madisonl [Mr. Springer], under the present system. are attlibutable to the improper execution of the law, upon the part of county judges, in appointin~g commissioners, and not to the law itself. I am willing to tecept the amendment of the gentleman from Fulton [Mr. RossJ, and that of the genllteman M~om Kane ~lr. Wheaton], that all persons may have a j ury to assess damages, but I most seriouslyr object to the amendment of the gentleman from White [Mr. McDowell] ~hich strikes out all the subsequent por plication, or compulsorily, a trial by jury in such cases, will prevail. Mr. UNDERWOOD. Mr. President: The object of the section is to prevent the abuse of the right of eminent do main. That h-s been abused in this way, practically. The General Assembly, in some special laws, in reference to rail roads, has authorized the Governor, with out any notice to the parties concerned, to appoint commissioners to assess the dam ages. Our supreme court has held that under our present Constitution, it is not necessa ry that the owner of the property should have any notice whatever of the con demtation, by which his property is taken for public use. That commissioners should be selected in this manner by one party, without notice to an adversary, is unfair. Trial by jury will, in a great measure, remove that abuse, and hence this is a good guarantee. I concur with the gentleman from Kane [ Mr. Wheaton] that it perhaps would make it rather expensive to have a trial by jury in every case. Under the law provision might be made for the ap pointmnent of commissioners, and where parties do not object, their assessments might be valid with the privilege of ap peal. But if either party desires a trial by jury, the Legislature should, un..der such a provision of the Constitution. pro vide a mode in which a jury should be authorized to act-somewhat like trials of the rights of property before sheriff,. There is another evil which this section was intended to obviate. In most of the charters that have heretofore been grant ed, the fee simple is taken. The object of that was, that although the corpo,ra tion might not use the property f,or the purposes f~,r which it vas taken, the fee being in it, it would have the right to use it for other and different purposes,. That never struck me as a legitimate ap. plication of the right (.)f eminent d(main. It should be foria specific use, and when that use has ceased to exist, the easement should cease, anjd the property should re. turn to the owner. I notice in this section that in the case of land taken for railroad tracks the fee remains in the owner. As to a depot, nlothing is said about that. I presum:ne the reason must have been that, for depot purposes, large improvemnelts are erected, and th,~refore perhaps it swould not be proper f,,r the owner to have the laud and impro:ve ments also. If that was the view of the committee I see no objection to it. There is one other evil, w hich in making a provi~sio)n about condemis;ation, we ought to avoid. Private property should not be taken away for pubelic use, withmf~t comzpensatioen. The words "taken f~)r p-nvlic use," have received the exposi~ tionl of our courts. They held a ct:)mpensation rosy be in benefits to adjacen~t land left; that a marl receives on his adjo~ining land benefit equivalent to the value of the property taken, and is entitled to no compensation. This is hardly right. Why should a man, w hose land overt which a highway or railroad track hap~ penls to run, and who gets no more benefit than the man whose land comes within twenty. thirty, or fifty feet of the right of wvay, be comlpelled to lose all the benefits that he derives, while all the other coi~ tiguous land owners have the benefits without paying anything? There is no CONSTITUTIONAI, CONVENTION 1576 SATURDAY) p API 0 80 EAE AN RCEIG.17 by a jury, or by not less than three commissioners, appointed by a court of record, as shall be prescribed by law. But in all cases either party to be affected thereby, shall be entitled to have such compensation ascertained by ajutry. The fee of land taken for railroad tracks, without consent of the owners thereof shall rem in in such owners, subject to the use for which it is taken. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The question is upon the amendment offered by the gentleman from White [MIr. McDowell] to an amendment offered by the gentleman from Fulton [Mr. Ross]. The gentleman from Fulton [Mr. Ross] moved to amend by striking out all after the word "jury," in the third line, to and in cluding the word "law," in the fourth line. The gentleman from White [Mr. McDowell] moved to amend the amendment by striking out all after the word "compensation," to the end of the section. The question is first on the amendment to the amendment. Mr. ROSS. Mr. President: If the amendment is capable of division, I move to divide from the word "such" to the word "jury." Mr. ELDREDGE. Mr. President: Does the previous question apply to these amendments only? Mr. ALLEN, of Alexander. Mr. President: Is the motion to strike out susceptible of division? Mr. McDOWELL. Mr. President: The previous question destroys any chance of amendment, as I understand. Mr. HAINES, of Cook. Mr. President: I understood the previous question applied only to the amendments. Mr. McDOWELL. Mr. President: The rule has been that it carries the section with it. Mr. ROSS. Mr. President: I withdraw the motion for a division of the question. Mr. HAINES, of Cook. Mr. President: If the Convention have actually carried the previous question to the section, as well as the amendments, they have acted very hastily. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. Debate is out of order. The question is on the amendment of the gentleman from White [Mr. McDowell]. The yeas and nays were ordered, and, being taken, resulted-yeas 11, nays 40as follows: j ustic e and propriety in that, and I hope the Convention will agree at the propes time to add the following: Insert after "compensation" in the second line the words "nor shall benefits the owner receiv es in common with adjacent land own ers, be deducted." That feature of the law has been con demned by writers of elementary law as unjust. Thi s i s a very original section, covering a grea t d eal of ground; and there ic a no th er feature of C f s of it which is worthy of a serious consideration: "Prop erty shall not b e take n or damaged without just compensation." The courts have decided that cities, in their grading, may cut down lot s so tra as to almost ruin men and s ubj ec t them to enormous expense, or they may rais e th e g rad e of streets so as to cause water to run upon lots, a nd make property comparatively worthless,but that that is a damage for whic h l ot-owners are entitled to n o compensation. That seems the settled law of the land; so de cided in several States, and by the su preme court of the United States. They say it is not taking property, but is an incidental damage which lot-owners must sustain, by reason of these public improvements, and for which they are entitled to no compensation. As I un derstand this article, it will require compensation to be made for those damages which necessarily and naturally r rise to a party in consequence of these public improvements. It would be well, however, to consider while we are passing upon this question of the measure of damage, that this feature may, in a measure, hereafter, prevent cities from having as many public improvements of streets as may be desirable. It is a section that should not be passed without reflection, and I trust it will be fully discussed. Mr. FOX. Mr. President: I would like to have some information with regard to the meaning of this last sentence, with reference to the fee of lands of railroads. Will it not compel the owner of the land, the fee being in him, to pay the taxes upon the property continually, although in the use of the railroad company? I can see no other object to be gained. It can give nothing more than a reversionary interest in the land to the origiinal owner, and he has that already. I can see no reason for the provsion. Mr. ALLEN, of Alexander. Mr. President: My understanding of the law is, that the fee always does remain in the original proprietor. Many do not agree with me in this opinion, however. Mr. ROSS. Mr. President: I call for the previous question. The motion for the previous question was agreed to and the main question ordered. Mar. McDOWELL. Mr. President: I call for the yeas and nays on my amendment. Mr. HAINES, of Cook. Mr. President. As I was away yesterday, and have just come in, I would like to hear the section read that is now being considered. The Secretary read section fifteen, as amended, as follows: SEC. 15. Private property shall not be taken or damaged for public use without just compensation. Such compensation, when not made by the State, shall be ascertained 895 So the amendment offered by Mr. McDowell o to the amendment offer ed by Mr. Ross, to strike out of section fifteen all after the word "compensation," was not agreed to. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The question is on the adoption of the amendment offered by the gentleman from Fulton [Mr. Ross], to strike out of section fifteena all aft er th e w ord "jury" in line thi r d to and including "law" in line four. Mr. BENJAMIN. Will the gentleman modify his motion so as to The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. No amendment is in order, except by unanimous consent, after the previous question has been ordered. It can only be reached by a reconsideration. Mr. HAY. I move to reconsider the vote by which the main question was ordered. Mr. CUMMINGS. Mr. President: I rise to a point of order. The Convention having ordered the main question and taken one vote under that order, can the Chair, when proceeding to obey that order and take the further vote, entertain a motion to reconsider the vote ordering the main question? e The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. It is not strictly in order to permit a motion under such circumstances, but it has been usual in this Convention to'allow some latitude in respect to the time of offering motions. ' Mr. SNYDER. Mr. President: With all due respect to the Chair, I would say it has been usual to reconsider, after the previous question has been exhaustedafter the section has been acted uponbut not during the time when the previous question is pending. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. After the previous question is exhausted, it is useless to reconsider. The Chair is of opinion that the previous question, as it is nothing more than ordering the main question, is one which the Convention can recall and order otherwise. The previous question now goes to the section and pending amendments. Mr. ALLEN, of Alexander. Mr. President: That is very unusual, and I hope it will not be tolerated while we are taking a vote. I object, if I have the power. 'rhe PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The question is without debate. The question is on the motion to reconsider the vot~ bye'which the main question was ordered. The yeas and nays were ordered, and, being taken, resulted yeas 28, nays 24 ~as follows: NAYS. Alle n of Alex.,Goodell, Spr inger, Allen of Crfd., Hi aines of LakeTincher, Archer, Hankins, Tubbs, Bayne, Hart, Turner, Benjamin, Hildrup, Underwood, Bryan,, McCoy, Vandeventer, Cameron, Merriam, Wagner, Cary, Parks, Wait Church, Peirce,-j i Washburn, Cody, Poage, Wells, Cross, Ross, Wheaton, Cummings, Sedgwick, Whiting Fuller, Sherrill, Wilson 0. Gamble, Browning, H ay, Buxton, Hildrup, Cummings, McCoy, Eldredge, Medill, Fox, Merriam, Fuller, Parker, Gamble, Parks, Goodell, Peirce, Haines of Cook,Poage, Hart, NAAYS. Allen of Alex., Church, Tincher, Allen, of Cr'fd, Forman, Vandeventer Anderson, Haines of Lake,Wait, Archer, Hankins, Washburn, Benjamin, McDowell, Wells, I APP.IL 30, 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1577 Craig, Dement, Eldredge, Moore, Neece,' Perley, Wright, Afr. President-32. TIMAS, Haines of CookSnyder, Hay, Skinner, McDowell, Wall-11. Parker, Browning, Buxton, Forman Fox, YE-&S. Sedgwick, Sherrill,, Skinner, Springer, Tubbs, Turner, Underwood, Wagner, wall-28. SENT, OR NOT VOTING. - Ellis, Pillsbury, English, Rice, Goodhue, Robinson, Hanna, Scholfield, TIarwood, Sharp Haves Butil7eriand, Truesdale, me(flil, Wendling, - Abbott, I Anderson, Anthony, Atkin"' Boman, Bromwell, Brown, Coolbaugh, f CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION ny Mr. ALLEN, of Alexander. Mr. Presily dent: I do not understand the gentleman m- from Perry [Mr. Wall] as objecting to s- this word "damage," as used in the first part of the section. I am fearful that any , construction given by the Convention n would be of little aid to the courts when the questions involving its construction ve may hereafter be brought before them. s- This term "damage," although not of frequent occurrence in Constitutions, is en I,ot new in connection with the subject te matter of the section. Many years ago ill England an act of parliament was passed, looking to this very question in which this very term "damage" was used. For t. years thereafter the courts of England n- were called upon to give constructions to ay this act, until now, the law wish reference he to such damage has been well settled. a It seems to be well understood from these several judicial expositions, that n wherever a man's property is actually and i mmediat e ly da maged, he shall have a c ompensation-not in case of a remote r or contingent injury, b ut whe re it is im-r n mediate and direct. Take a railroad, e foer illustration, which runs within three t feet of a r e sid ence, and the s moke from which fills the house and prevents i ts e-occupation, that property i s na tura lly ", damaged "-destroyed for residence a p urpo ses, an d yet is not " taken." The s man living upon the ne xt square will - not be damaged probably at all certain~s ly only in a renmote or indirect manner, Se and therefore his case would not, unde r Y the s e expos itions, fall with in the Ianr guge of the section. In the first illuso g tratlOn given, the language in the secti on affords the owner a reme dy in the shapep of coinpensationw, and it is eminently just. n When the fact s of any particular case are once und ersto od, there will be To d ifficulty in applying the law resulting s from the adoption of the language in this - section, to them. I do not know of any a statute in this c ou ntry, on the subject, though there may be many. But I am t desirous of being consistent in this m atY ter, and where a man's property is injurMs ed, he ought to get compensation as cera taidly as if h is pro p erty is actually taken. Mr. SKINNER. Mr. Preside nt: The to great securi ty, in my judgment, in the a c t compensation. Then, we will have s tr uck ti atf the rovemot, the f undamental ideaei and 1 have aff,,rded, by ctostitation al guaranL1 tee, what is righot and u seful while oarmifg nobody. Iut h e wh we go further, d and aattempt to contro l an d regulate the Y ode ofn procedur e, o r th e manner in wnhich property shall be appropriated, iand the mrnzde of ascertaining anld paying the compensation, we enter upon the fie ld I wuf legislation, and upo n so broad a field ethat we must tread lightly and carefully, elest we do a great deal of harm.' r The conditioxn oxf a State like ours is ever var'yilig. To-day, the public exigen3cies may require one mode of proceeding;* I tee morro~w, another-fair we are chan~ging -all the timne, an~d will be until we get our -growth as a State. I therefore ask the Lmem~bers of this Convention to venI1ture ;nIo further than the necessities of tile case re quire. I ask them to declare the prinLciple, and leave it there. Trust the wis doum of the law-making power of the Perley, Pillsbury, Rice, Robinson, Scholfield, Sutherland, Truesdale, Wendling, Wright, Mr. President-31. Abbott, Anthony, Atkins, Bayne, Bowman, Bromwell, Brown, Cody, Coolb'augh,' Craig, Cross, So the motion of Mr. Hay to reconsider the vote by which the main question was ordered, wes agreed to. Mr. UNDERWOOD. Mr. President: Are amendments still in order? The PRESIDENT, pro temrore. An amenendm en t w ill be in order, if it is an amendment to the amendment of the gen tleman from Fulton [Mr. Ross] which is now pending. Mr. UNDERWOOD. Mr. President: I wish simply to say to the Convention that, a s w aare not in Committee of the Whole, and are subject to the action of the previous question, there will be no possibility of correcting anything, after the main question has been ordered, and it is to be hoped that an opportunity will be given to perfect this bill of rights, by a vote on every amendment offered. 'The am mendne-nt, which I wish to offer is as follows: Nor shall deductions be made for benefits the owner receives in common with adjacent land owners. Th PRES IDENT, pro tempore. No amendment is in order, unless it is an amendment to the amendment of the gen tleman from Fulton [Mr Ross]. AMr. BENJAMIN. I ask the gentleman from Fulton [iMr. Ross] if he will not ac cept an amendment by striking out the words "or by not less than three commis sioners appointed by a court of record?" Then the clause will read: "Such ci)mpensation, when not paid by the State, shall be ascertained by a jury, as shall be prescribed by law." In my opinion, it is essential that the jury should view the land which is to be condemned, and I am very anxious that it should be left to the Legislature to provide that the jury, before assessing damages, shall go upon the land and see it, and not be confined, as in ordinary jury trials, to the testimony of witnesses. Mr. ROSS. I think that would suit me just as well as the amendment I offered, and I will modify it in that way. I would also suggest that the additional words be stricken out. Mr. BENJAMIN. I have no objection to that. Mr. WALL. Mr. President: I am in favor of the simple declaration that private property shall not be taken without just compensation. It is mere legislation to prescribe in-the Constitution how that compensation shall be ascertained. So far as I am concerned, I do not know that I should particularly desire a jury. I am not sure that a jury woulld be always~ the safest and best tribunal. I am very coffin dent that it is hardly advisable to put in-1 to the Constitution an inflexible provis-i ion that the damages shall never be as- certained in any other way. 1 I would be willin~g to go so fOr as to ] provide that the damage shall be ascer- 1 certained by a jury, when desired by the j owners. I wou ld no t wish to go at further than that, but would certain leave the section so f lexible that the dai age may be ascertainoed in some less e; Fensive mode, if desirable. Mr. ROSS. Can not that course be take if the proposition before the Conventic is adopted? Mr. WALL. Weare e making a positi provision that such damages shall be a certa ined by a jury. Mr. ROSS. Does that prevent me from appointing arbitrators to investiga it? Mr. WALL. That is the question. Mr. ROSS. Of course it would not. Mr. WALL. I am not sure about the Mr. SPRINGER. Would not the owl er of the land have the r ght, under aL provision, to say what compensation l would take, or let somebody else fix sum, and take that? This provision of the Constitutio would not interfere with that right. Mr. WALL. He could, undoubtedly but in that case, there would be no co] demnation at all, for the owner would k simply selling the right of way. The would be the enad of it. While I am on tle floor, I wish to r~ fer to another provision in the sectioi that private property shall not be take or damaged for public use without ju, compensation.' This is an innovation a new principle. It is for the purpose, a I suppose, of protecting persons whos propelrty is -not immediately taken b the exercise of the right of emIiinent d( main, but by reasons of the adjoinin property being taken or a street beit, leveled or graded up so that their pros erty is injured. I understand that by a: act of pailiameint a similar provision ex ists in England. I do not understand how far the court have gone in construing the term'Idam age;" in other words, what sort of damage would come within this provision If a street is graded up so as to make i impossible to approach one's premises b reason of the public improvement, it i very clear that that would be within thi section. But how much further may we go? What is the limit? The building sir, of a railroad- through fifth street i~ this city does not at all change the grade and yet I apprehend that it is a daimiage more or less, to all the property frnmting onL that street. It masy have been a damage to property eveu (an thle nest street. I1 ma'y have b~eent the means of directing bus incas from (oue point to another. Would such damage as that be inceluded withji~ thi prvso' The buildin~g of a railroamd within two miles of a towel may re, ult ir very great injury to all the property within that town. Is that such a dam age as would be included within this pro vision? I should suppose nojt. I should hold that such damlages are too remo:te, merely COnSe~qUebtiai, al:td I presume the courts would decide that the damsage mlust be im~mediate, resulting directly from the imnprovement. ~What I desire is to obtain the opinions of gentlemen upons this sutbject. I would be glad to see the record of ou)rr proceedings cont~ai a conustruction of th~is provision, so) that the courts hereafter, when they comle to construe it, may at least have the aid of the conlstructi,,n given b~y the Cnonvenstion to the p~rovision w hell passing upon it. s s e I I 1578 S.&TURDA., Bryan, Ross, Wheaton, Cameron, Sharp,.Whiting, Cary, Snyder, - Wilson24. .LBSENT, OR NOT VOTING. Dement, Ellis, English, Goodhue, Hanna, Harwood, Haves. KiLg,' Moore, Neece, DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. State to execute this authority-that is, energies and damage her progress, whcic ih to appropriate private property to pub- no member of the Convention desires. lee use in such a manner as shall be con- Trust, then, to the wisdom of the Gen sistent with the public good, and shall eral Assembly rather than assume that also secure private rights. There leave we see and comprehend what the future it and we are safe. may require. Declare the principle and Now, the suggestion as to the innova- trust the lawmaking power to execute tion upon these words, by insertion of the that principle byt the modes and theans words, "or damages," I will refer to by best adapted to the public good and the an illustration, and I will take the case of protection of the private citizen. my own city. It is on a hill-an im- I trust the Convention will strike out mense bluff. Streets have been cut the words "or damage," and let the sen through these bluffs to the river, for the tence read, "private property shall not be purpose of facilitating city and country taken fer public use without just compen trade. By the word inserted here, in sation," Then there is safety, but there my judgment, we could not open these is no safety, in my judgment, if we go be public highways, and leave high bluffs yond that. on either side, without paying or so re- Mr. CHURCH. Mr. President: I premoving every inch of dirt. We could sume that no gentleman who has been not raise the street above the level of the engaged in framing and reporting the bill natural surface of the earth, without pay- of rights will deny the proposition of ing the owner for filling it up to the lev- the gentleman from Adams [Mr. Skinner], el of the new street. that all property of the State, and eveni - Sr. BENJAMIN. Will the gentle. the life of every citizen of the State, is ~~manll ~ allow mgne- held subject to the public necessity — man allow me Mr. SKINNER. I cannot do it now. subject to the demands that shall be made So what would become of the improve upon them to preserve the existence of ments in the city of Chicago under such the State and to preserve the general a rule? welfare of the State, whenever absolute Let us take, for instance, a rail- public exigency demands it. road coming into the city of Chi- But, sir, does he propose to contend cago or Quincy. It is built to ac- that the citizen of the State, in respect to commodate the interior and build it his property, is placed in jeopardy by up When we commodate interior and build itcago that rule? Does he hold that that law up., When we come near Chicago of necessity has any coi~fiict with the or Quincy, the residents do not want of necessity has any coict with tho the railroad. The road cannot pass with- right of property, secured by all our ithe railroad. The road cannot pass with-moke Constitutions, by which no man can be inor the noistance of the whistle or bell ofwithe smoke deprived of his property, except by due or the noise of the whistle or bell with- poess of law, when public interest de out causing damage. Those damages process of law, when public interest dey must be paid; for the disturbance is mands theuseof some specific property i ead v within the rule, a nuisance. Residences when the necessity demands that built in early times with gardens and irivate fcitizen? W ill he coted g that springs are claimed to be damaged. They hat private citizen sha? Will not be plac ed ia belong to some very nice gentlemen, who in as favorable a situation as if that de-s will have their supposed damage for that as favorable a situation as if that desmoke or that noise. I tell gentlemen mand was not made, so far'as it is possithere is no end to what mary result frot ble for the State to place him in that sitthere is no end'to whatt may result fromuai bmaigcopnain adcpting thisinnovation. The harm will uatio, by making compensation??h l fall up the rural regions, upon the in- Now, sir, while I concede the fact that fatellor, whereupon the rurapeople want these pubin- every man's property, right, and priviterior, where the people want these pub- Itge —those of men or corporation)slic facilities, which will be cut down by le gthoe of men or corpoati)n-ded these dense populations that refuse to aesbet to be taken and cndemned allow these public thoroughfares to enter for public uses, I hsh ld that the inidivido the public marts without damages. The ual should have adequate compensation., safe way is to strike out the words "or If he does not receive full compelnsation, b damae. wa st tieott should not be tge fault of the law, but ,~~~~~damage." on account o tet of accidentof circumstances Society is so constituted, and it is the occurring at the time. The law should theory of government, that we hold our secure full compensation, so that he property and lives subject to the public should only bear his proportion of the good, and must yield, in ameasure, when burden that the public denands or the the force of circumstances require it. public necessity requires. If not, an inSuch are the judicial decisions upon this dividual might be called upon to conoriginal clause. In the city of Boston, tribute his property for the benefit of the improvements are now converting the whole community, and thereby become soap factories and fish places, where impoverished. Is there any difference the sea ebbed and flowed, into solid between taking aLd destroying that blocks of buildings, upon this principle. property, in respect to the - iujury So it is everywhere. So it is in Chicago; inflicted on him, or the benefits ac you raise your streets from time to time, quired by the public? If the public so that you can build your city and have are to receive benefit by taking his prop your sewerage. We hold our lives and erty, they should compensate him. If property upon the principle of common the public aro to acquire benefits by in concession. j urii]g that property, they should make Now, the safe way is to abide by the him compensation, so that he, in either well known and well understood language case, should not be required to bear tnoioe of the Constitution of the United States, than his proportion of the burden imposand nearly all the States of the union. ed by public necessity; and, whatever is Rest there. It has worked well hitherto. gained by it, he is to share in proportion, If we venture into this field of legislation, of course. without intending it, without seeing the Now, sir, as to the kind of damage, is future, as God sees it, we will commit it not as safe to trust the different dt-partblunders that, instead of advanciug the ments of government in the executionio of progress of the State, will cripple h~ this Constitution, the legislative and j u dicial, in giving construction to this, as it is to trust them to crea te laws hereafter that mao not protect it? This is no t leg islation. This is not obnoxious to the charge and practice many of us have been contending against since we met, that the Convention has been seeking to etlgraft legislation on the Constitution. No, sir; it is a limitation and protection of the rights of citizens, so that neither the acts of the General Assemblv, nor the con struction of those acts by the courts shall ever allow private property to be damag ed or injuries inflicted upon one citizen for the benefit ofthe whole community, without paying him for it. It isa limita tion only. As to the kind of damage, I do not suppose any gentleman contends that the damage will be so remote but that the proper rules of construction will guard the rights of all. If the term'damage" is not satisfactory, use "injury," or whatever will prevent a man's property from being destroyed without compensation; that is what we mean —lot because of a railroad bein, g built or a locomotive being put in motion, so that the siiike will be disagreeable to some rnau's olfactory nerves, but because there may be such a construction of a railroad as will expose his property for all time to come to absolute destruction, by means of fire being brought into almost immediate contact with it, wherebv destruction wi.l follow almost as a necessity, and where the mo. menlt it is thus expo,ed, his expenses of insurance, aside from all other damages and dangers to which he is exposed, way be increased five-fiold. It is by reason of the immense benefits and privileges that are given to corporations to combine their capital, that they are able to i,flict such injuries as these. I may mention another Instance, where, in cities, its the c(ouise of coz,structirg a bridge or tunnel, it may not be necessary to touch actually and physically, the property of any man, yet the public iema:ds m:,v be such that his property may be rendered of too eartbly use or value whatever. It m-ay be necessarv to erect such an embairkn)(it before his place of business, as to virtually destroy it, and from a comiipetence he may be rctduiced to bteggary that, too, on the plta of public necessity. r We do not propose to dtDny that he may be reduced, so far as his present property is concerred,!,utt we insist th~at if thle calls of the public are so im~rperiolus as to destroy his plrece of business, they sh~Xmld be so imperl~us as to require his L;eigh blrs and hlis fc l['.,wcitizens who are to recap the bent-fits arising fn( m t he dest ruction~ o)f h is property, t(, contribute and bear a portio,n o~f the burden instead of le~tvi,,g it all upon him. I hope that the word will lnot be st ricketn out. Mr. W9HEATON. heIr. President: I move the previous question on! he amenzdment of the gentlem~an from Fullt>Xm [Mr. Ross], solely beca,use the speechts ~hat are now being nmacle are not on1 that amendment at all. Mr. UNDEDRWOOD (in his seat). Let us have a vote upon it without calli~:g for the previ(;us question. The rm,,tioa fo,r tihe previous q,~cstionl was agreed lto, and the mainl questio:n orde red. The PRESIDENT, pro teympor~. The gm, tleana fromu~ Kane [Mrs. ~Vf~, at, m] introduced an amekdmeUt, which gvas I APP.IL 30 1870. 157 t 1580 ('OSTITUTIONAL GOYENTIO SATURDAY, any officer in the State to be authorized to fix the compensation in a different manner from what it would be fixed by any other corporation wanting property? I move that the words "when not made by the State," be stricken out. State necessity may be urged in some cases, but the highest State necessity that can ever occur, is to protect the sacred right of private property in every individual. Mr. CHURCH. Mr. President: I would have preferred that some other member of the committee should have replied to the question, having just spoken myself. I only desire to say that the amendment now proposed strikes at the very sovereignty of the State. It strikes at the very vital energies of the State, and should it be inserted in the Constitution, this State could not even preserve its own existence. It will be embarrassed in procuring a military camp for Its soldiers in suppressing rebellion, without calling out a jury to ascertain the amount of compeinsation it should pay. When the necessities that arise in the exercise of that high sovereignty that must be exercised by every State, in order to preserve its own existence, that power, that right, would be striken down, or greatly embarrassed, by the adoption of this amendment. I do not fear any injury that may resuit to any citizen of the State, in the exercise of this right of eminent domain, where the State itself is the party exercising it, in preserving its own existence, or the rights of the people of the whole State. It is merely to prevent any one from being misled as to the meaning of this proviso, that I offered these few consider. ations. The State will always be just to its citizens. They are the State. Mr. BUXTON. Mr. President: It is a piece of sophistry, unworthy a gentleman of the ability and learning of my friend from McHlenry [Mr. Church], to assert in this Convention that the State cannot take a piece of land for military purposes, or for any other purpose, without first calling a jury. There is no such requirement in the Constitution. There was no such provision as this in the old Constitution, and the requiring this compensation to be made by a jury in behalf of the State, is no more burdensome t) it than to a county, or any other municipality or any corporation. The truth of the matter is that compensation, when property is condemned in behalf of the State, is fixed by a board and that enormous sums are paid for any property that the State may want. It is for the protection of the State that I would be in favor of requiring a jury to say how much the State of Illinois shall pay for any property that it condemns for public use. The law authorizes any person who will give security, that whatever sum may be assessed in damages will be paid, to take possession of the proper ty; and I see no reason why the sovereignty of the people of the State should not submit to the decision of a jury on the question of property, the same as a county, a city or a town. It is not a question of the time when the property shall be taken, but a question as to how much shall be paid for it, that should be submitted to the jury, which is an institution of this country for the protection of the people of the accepted by the Committee on the Bill of Rights by it s chairman, to be inserted after the word "law," which the Secretary will read. The Secretary read the amendment, offered by Mr. Wheaton and accepted by Mr. Allen, of Alexander, as follows: After the word "law" in the fourth line, insert the following: But in all cases either party to be affected thereby, shall be entitled to have such compensation ascertained by a jury. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The gentleman from Fulton [Mr. Ross] now, by his modified amendment, moves to strike out from the word "jury," in the third line, to the word "record," in the third line; also, the words put in by the gentleman from Kane [Mr. Wheaton]. This is the question to be voted upon, upon which the previous question is ordered. The amendment offered by Mr. Ross was aggreed to. Mr. WELLS. Mr. President: I desire to make an inquiry. Why are these words in the second line, "wheni not made by the State," inserted? Is it designed that the State may take private property, without paying for it, or may it take it without a jury? Why should the State be entitled to take property, without the intervention of a jury, any more than any body else? Who is to appraise it? Is the owner to set his own price upon it, and the State be compelled to pay it, however exorbitant, or, is any State officer entitled to take it at what he thinks is its value, without any reference to the owner's opinion? Mr. HAINES, of Lake (in his seat). It is so in the State of New York. Mr. WELLS. I do not care what State has this provision; I believe it to be erroneous. Mr. HAINES, of Lake (in his seat). Why so? Mr. WELLS. Because it allows the State to take private property, without paying for it. [" Move to strike it out."] . Mr. WELLS, I move to strike out the words in the second line, "when not made by the State," and then it will read that "such compensation shall be ascer. tained by a jury." Now, the State, no matter how great its wants, should condemn property by a jury. No single officer of the EState has a right to condemn a man's property, and take it at what he thinks it is worth, nor should the State be compelled to pay what the owner of private property thinks it is worth, without regard to its real value. Mr. HAIN:ES, of Lake (in his seat). The gentleman does not refer to a grand jury Mr. WELLS. I do not care whether it is a grand or petit jury. Unless this be stricken out, an instance may occur right here, exactly in point. The new State house, now being built in this city, has been cunningly put in the corner of the lot upon which it is built. The land upon two sides of it may eventually be needed by the State. The grounds upon. one side, in all probability, will be needed for State purposes. Now, has the State a right to take that property from its owner, without compensation, or is the State compelled, if wanting it, to pay the price which the owner puts upon it, without regard to its value, or is whole State, a s well as of the most hu m ble individual. Mr. BENJAMIN. Mr. President: This is not an innovation. It is merely a copy of the provision of the Constitution of the State of New York, which I will read: When private property shall be taken for any public use, the compensation to be made therefor, when such compensation is not made by the State shall be ascertained by a jury, or by not less than three commission ers appointed by a court of record, as shall be prescribed by law. I conceive it to be very essential that, when compensation is made by the State, the people of the State should not be re stricted and regulated as to the ascertain ment of the compensation. The question of compensation, in such case, should be left to the Legislature, instead of twelve men. The first provision declares that prop. erty shall not be taken or damaged for public use, without just compensation. The State is obliged to afford just com pedsation. There is no difference between us on that point. Just compensation must be made in every instance. The onlv question is, How shall this com pensation be ascertained, when the State itself is to make the compensation? Is it necessary to have a jury'? We have provided in the legislative article, upon full discussion, that the State, in no event shall be made defend ant in a suit at law. We reserve the rights, of the whole people when we pro vide that the State, the political embodi ment of the people, shall not be sued shall not be the subject of jury trials, or any trials whatever. The effect of the clause is merely this: that when compensation is made by the State directly, the State shall be the proper judge of the compensation, upon the same principle that we provided that the State should never be sued. Mr. UNDERWOOD. With permission of the gentleman, I would ask, when a State proceeds against a man, and de prives him of liberty, do we not allow him trial by jury; and when it proceeds against his property, why not also allow it to him? Mr. BENJAMIN. Then do you pro pose to go back and provide that the State shall be made a defendant? The right of eminent domain is a-sovereign right, and has been held not subject to the provision that no person shall be deprived of life, liberty; or property with. out due process of law. Mr. UNDERWOOD. When a State makes anvbod]y a defendant, he has some rights it is bound to respect. Mr. BENJAMIN.. By striking out this clause, we tie up the power of the people, so that, practically, they cannot, through the Legislature, control corporations by exercising the right of eminent domain. Under the exercise of the right of eminent domain, upon proper compensation, the State may reassert and repossess certain governmental powers which have been unadvisedly surrendered Without a struggle, on the part of the people. Mr. TUJRNER. Mr. President: I am somewhat surprised at the position gentlemen have taken on this subject. What do we understand by eminent domain? Simply that every man in the State holds his property subject to the ,paramount right of the State to protect CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION S,&TURDI 1580 I a API 080 EBAE AM) PROED-S 1581 private property taken at the will of the State, and at the same time allowing the State to fix the compensation which must be paid. Mr. ARCHER. Mr. President: I move the previous question upon the amendment of the gentleman from Peoria [Mr. Wells.] The motion for the previous question was agreed to, and the main question ordered. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The amendment of the gentleman from Peoria [Mr. Wells] is to strike out the words, "when not made by the State." Mr. Archer. In section seven, after the word "compensation?" The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. After the word "compensation," as it occurs the second time in line two. Mr. ALLEN, of Alexander. Mr. President: The question is on the motion to stroke out? The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The question is on the amendment offered by the gentleman from Peoria [Mr. Wells], which is to strike out. The yeas and nays were ordered, and being taken resulted-yeas 20, nays 33as follows: YEAS. Allen of Alex.,Eldredge, Allen of Crfd.,Fuller, Anderson, Gamble, Archer, Goodell Atkins, Hankins, Bayne, Hart, Benjamin, Hay, BroWming, Hildrup, Cameron, McCoy, Cary, Merriam, Church, Parker, Cody, Parks, Cross, Peirce, Cummings, Poage, NAYS. itself by t aking that property when pub lic necessity requires. Now, sir, the State has no more right to take my property without compenAsa tion tha n a railr oad c orporation has. It can only be taken from me for public use, and at a just compensation. Mr. CHURCH. I wish to ask the gen tleman from Stephenson [Mr. TurnerJ whether he cannot imagine cases where the State, to preserve its existence, would be compelled to take property before making the compensation? Mr. TURNER. Sir, there is nothing in this clause that requires the ccmpensation to be actually paid before the prop erty can be taken. It is sufficient if it is paid afterwards. Now, if I own a piece of property, has the State a right to lay its hand on it and take it from me without compensation? If it has, American liberty is a mockery. How shall we ascertain how much I shall receive for my property? Shall the power that takes it prescribe what I shall receive for it? That is precisely the position occupied by the gentleman from McHenry [Mr. Church], and by the gentleman from McLean [MIr. Benjamin]. They concede that I must have compensation, but they say that the power that takes my property shall fix the compensation they will pay for it. Now, sir, there is no reason why the State, if it demands my property for public use, shall not submit to a jury of the country what that property is worth. We might as well provide that the State may take my property without compensation, as that it may take it at such compensation as it is willing to give me. It amounts to substantially the same thing. It is said we have provided that the State shall not be a defendant. So we have. But, sir, when the State invades my private property, it does not invade it as a defendant, but it invades it as an applicant or plaintiff, and there is no more reason why I should be deprived of the verdict of an impartial jury in regard to what my property is worth, in case the State requires it for an arsenal or camping ground for soldiers, than if it requires it for a state house. I am in favor of striking out this provision, and putting our Constitution in such a shape that the State may not seize the property of an individual, and then turn round and compensate him for it or not or what amounts to the same thing, fixs its own1 value upon it. Mr. WAIT. Mr. President: Will the gentleman from Stephenson [M/r. Turner] permit mne to ask him a question? Mr. TURNER. Certainly. M~r. WAIT. Will the gentleman define the term "publ c use," as he understands the term ill connection with this section? Mr. TURNER. It is meant to apply to property on which to build a state house, for instance, or to make a state toad. It is meant to apply to any public use that the State may require property for. It is meant to apply constructively, to land upon which railroads may be built. It is meant to apply constructively eo the streets and highways that are made 5hroughout the country. That is what it ;s meant to apply to; and that if the ~tate has to pay for property, it is to have ~ t upon its own terms} while if the State ]as not to pay for it, the value must be qxd by a jury.- I am opposed to having 396 Allen of Alex.Forman, Sedgwick, Anderson, Fox, Sharp, Archer, Fuller, Sherrill, Bayne, Gamble, Snyder, Benjamin, Goodell, Springer, Cameron, Hart, Tincher, Cary, Hildrup, Tubbs, Church, McCoy, Wagner, Cody, Merriam, Washburn, Cross, Parks, Whiting, Cummings, Peirce, Wilson-33. ABSENT, OR NOT VOTING. Abbott, English, Rice, Allen of Cr'fd.,Goodhue, Robinson, Anthony, Hanna, Scholfield, Bowman, Harwood, Skinner, Bromwell, Hayes, Sutherland, Brown, King, Truesdale Coolbaugh, Moore, Wendling Craig, Neece, Wheaton, Dement, Perley, Wright Ellis, Pillsbury, Mr. President-30. So the amendment offered by Mr. Wells was not agreed to. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The question will be on the adoption of the section. Mr. McDOWELL. Mr. President: I now move, in the fourth line, to strike out the words, "railroad track," and insert the words "public use." The clause looks very much like a war on railroads, a war which I suppose we do not wish to engage in. Mr. HAINES, of Cook. Mr. President: I move to amend the amendment by adding "for railroads and railroad purposes." That, then, leaves the fee in the party owning the land, not only where it is taken for public use, but also for railroad purposes. The gentleman's amendment would allow railroads to take land and hold the fee, no matter whether they used it for that purpose or any other. I think it is an insidious amendment. Mr. McDOWELL. I accept the amendment. i A-PP.IL 30) 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1581 Mr. CHURCH. Mr. President: I should regret to see anything placed in the Constitution which would allow any.thing to go for "railroad purposes," specifically. It is only for public use, to create a public highway, that property should be taken for railroads. If wedut something in here recognize ing the right of railroads to take private property, and not regarding public use at the same time, I think it would be very dangerous. Mr. CARY. I move to lay that amendment on the table.' The Secretary read the amendment, off,ered by Mr. McDowell, as modified, as follows: Strike out "railroad tracks," in the fourth line, and insert "public -use, railroad and railroad purpoise8." The yeas and nays were ordered, and being taken, resulted-yeas 42, nays 10 -as follows: Sedgwick, Sh6r-rill. Snyder,' Skinnei, Springer, Tincher, Tubbs,; Vandeventer, Wagner, wait. - Wall,' Washburn, Whiting, Wilson2. YEAS. Alking,'lankins, B"..i.9,'lay, Bryan, McDowell, .3uxton, Medill, :?,Idrediie. Parker, .laines7of Clok,Poage,. Haines of Llke,Ross, Turner. Under'wood, Vandeventer, Wait, Wall, Wells-20. Haines of CookMedill, Haines of LakeRoss, McDowell, Turner-lo. Bryan, Buxton, Forman, Fox, N.&Ys. Allen of Alex.Forman, Anderson, Fox, Archer, Fuller, Bayne, Gambl e, Benjamin, Goodell, Cameron, Hart, Cary, Hildrup. Church, 14ccolF Cody, Xrlia,6, Cross, Parkr,, Cummings, Peirce, SENT, OR NOT VOTINO. Hanna, Scholfl'eld, Harwood, Sharp, iayes, Sutherland, Ning, Truesdale, Moore, Underwood, Neece, Wells, Perley, Wendling Pillsbury, Wheaton. Rice, Wright,' Robinson, Mr. Prefide'nt-31. Abbott, Anthony, Bowman, Bromwell, Brown, CoolbECugh, Cr'lig, D,,m,,nt, Ellis, English, Goodhue, So the motion of Mr. Cary to lay o the table the amendment offered by.M McDowell, was aoreed to. Mr. UNDERWOOD. Mr. President I now offer my amendment, as follows: Insert after the word "compensation," I the second line, the following: -"Nor shall d ductions be made of benefitis the owner r ceives in common with adjacent land -ow ers.1) Mr. BUXTON. Mr. President: move to amend by adding the statutes o 1852. [Laughter.] Mr. HAINES, of Cook. Mr. Presi dent: I would suggest, as many of th members are not familiar with thos statutes, that the gentleman from Clinto [Mr. Buxton] get them and read them t the Convention. [La-ighter]. Mr. UNDERWOOD. Mr. President I would say a word right here. The Leg isto,ture, it is true under the statutes o 1852, have adopted this same principle, but our supreme court have decided tha without that act of the Legislature, corporations could make the deductions and take a man's property for public usecould deduct all the benefit to him, and give him nothing. N'ow, it is a good principle, and we ought not to risk it entirely in the dis. cretion of the Legislature, which xnay, repeal the act of 1852. f 1582 COSTITUTJONAL COVINTIO SATURDAY, five or ten dollars per acre, I see no r ea son why, taking into consideration the damage of a work of that sort, the bene fit should not also be considered. Mr. UNDERWOOD. Suppose your neighbor has a farm that comes within ten feet of the railroad track. Is it right that he should get all the benefit and pay nothing, while you have to pay in full for all the benefit of the railroad? Mr. ALLEN, of Crawford. If my neighbor's land happens not to be exact ly in the position of mine-happens not to be on the line of the road-it is his good fortune, but, if my property has to be taken for a use of this sort, through which I am to receive a benefit, why is it that you propose, by this provision, not only to pay me for the property itself, but to give, in addition, the benefits of the work, which ought to be considered as well as the damage I sustain through the taking of a portion of my property? But my principal objection is that it puts obstacles in the way of these im provements, and we have reason to ex pect that what has been the effect in oth er States, where the matter has been tried, will follow in this State also. Of course it will interfere with public improvements of every description make them more expensive and more difficult to build. I do not desire to de tain the Convention with any extended remarks upon this qu esti on. It does seem to me that that this provision ought not to be adopted. g Mr. SKINNER. Mr. President: The men who never concede anything to the public good, who stand firmly upon their legs, and look around grinning at anvbody who builds churches and school houses and public inprovements, are the men who will seek to avail themselves of such a provision as this. rhe enterprising, public spirited man says: "Yes; we want this public road; it is a public benefit; you can have the right of way." Such is the case with the majority, but a small and miserable minority stand ina the way. Now, the law says to the man who. chooses to block these improvements: "If your property is taken by. the law, you shall not be injured; you shall have just compensation."' "Oh," he says, "but this wagon road or railroad through this town benefits my neighbor nearly as much as it does me, and you must pay me what it benefits him relatively, although, on the whole, I am richer and better off' somebody else is benefited also, and he must pay me a portion of the benefits that he gets." Why, is the man hurt? xNo, he is not. He demands a concession from the public to his purse, before he will permit the public im4provement to be made. How is it while the liberal, enterprising class of-the public subscribe their money to aid in building railroads and developing the resources of the country, and thus add to their wealth, this man who will not give a dollar, stands in the way and says —"now you gentlemen must I pay me, if you get that right of way, a part of the money you contribute." That is the practical effect of it. "You must give me a part of what you contribute and I do nothing." Where is the justice in this? Can any man complain, when, by the decision of a jury, his property is taken for a just compensation? It is im YEAS. Allen, of Alex. Cameron, Allen of Crfd. Cody, Anderson, Cummings, Archer, Forman, Benjamin, Medill, Bryan, Parks, Atkins, Haines of LakeSkinner, Bayne, Hankins, Springer, Browning, Hart, Tincher, Gary, Hay, Tubbs Church, Hildrup, Turner, Cross, McCoy, Underwood, Eldredge, McDowell, Vandeventer, Fox, Merriam, Wagner. Fuller, Parker, Wait Gamble, Peirce, Washburn, Goodell, Poage, Wells Haines of Cook,Sedgwick Whiting-36. m aterial in what noanner that compensa tion is made-whether it is by benefits conferred, or by dollars. Justice is done, and, as was remarked by my friend from Crawford [Mr. Allen], the progress of the couitry is not stopped. I desire to say to gentlemen of this Convention, that these principles strike at the root of the business. The section strikes at the enterprises of the State, and the welfare of the interior. Go, if you please, near Chicago of Quincy, or any other place where the people do not want railroads, where they have got their roads. There money will have to be paid step by step to get a highway. In the region within thirty miles of Chicago money will have to be paid for a way to to take products to market. When you go into the interior, you will find liber ality and concession. You only find an old hunker here and there who makes objection. But when you go within twenty miles of the commercial popula — ti-)n, you will find they will compel you to pay your money through that region to the point of trade. They have got what they want, they are accommodated, they have the markets. The fault of this section is that it goes. too far. It is legislation of the most dangerous character, and I warn members of this Convention against it. We can not lay out a town road, we cannot build: a little common highway under the pro visions as they now stand, without going: into a court, getting a jury of twelve, men, and having a conteat cover these questions, when the simple, plain mode is the appointment of honest farmers to look at the route, view it, and with their experience and honest purpose, assess fair damageds. We clog- the: wheels every. where. Litigation, delay, interruption, check the most useful improvements. I beg that the Convention will consider the section in some form, and - come back - to the well known doctrine, leaving everything else to the General Assembly, and the necessities of the future, that private property shall not be taken except upon just compensation., Then wewill harm nobody, and have the voice of the people, through their representatives, always to protect us. Why these unusual limitations, as they are called? The words "or damage" have been put in as; an interpolation, and the balance contained- in this: section is mere legislation. I suppose my warnings will go for nothing. I only utter: them under the consciousness of duty-; and I again ask the Convention to hold and consider, before it enters upon the field of which no man now can comprehend the result. MIr. HAINES, of Lake. Mr. President:It would seem apparent to every one that compensation in money, for private prop — erty taken for public use, is -the only true principle. But the ingenuity of man, arising from the necessity of corporations, has constituted another mnode of compensation, which is to consider the benefits derived by the party whose property is taken. Originally, the term "public" was considered to be the people of the State or of a municipal corporation, but latterly, the public is understood to be railroad or private corporations. In other words, as the courts have construed it, railroad or private corporations are the agents of the public, for the Purduse of talking pri V VOTING. Rice, Robinson, Scholfield, Sutherland, Truesdale, Wendling, Wheaton, Wright, Mr. Presideiat-29. I s r I f I f. t s CONSTIT'UTIONAL CONYENTION SATURDAY) 1 582 Mr. ALLEN, of Crawford. Mr. President: I would like to hear the amendment read. The Secretary read the amendment, offered by Mr. Underwood, as follows: Insert after the word "competition," in 9'due second line, the followin: "Nor,,hall de - tions be made of benefits the owner receives in common with adjacent land owners.'' -Hr. ALLEN, of Crawford. I am in favor of laying that on the table. Mr. UNDERWOOD. Mr. President: I call for the yeas. The yeas and nays were ordered, and, being taken, resulted-yeas 18, n.ays 36, -as follows: Ross. Sharp, Sherrill, Snyder, Wall, Wilson-18. NA.YS. SENT OR NO English, Goodhue, Hanna, Har-wood,, Hayes', King, 1. Moore, Neece, Perley, Pillsbury, Abbott, Anthony, Bowman' Broi4well, Brown, - Buxton, Coolbaugh, Craig, Dement, Ellis, So the motion of Mr. Allen, of Crawford, to lay on the table the amendment offered by Mr. Underwood., was not agreed to. Mr. ALLEN, of Crawford. Mr. Presil, derit: I hope the amendment will not be adopted. Its tcndency- will,be to embarrass all the works of im roveinent that are gOiDg OD, Or that we are pyojecting. throughout the State.. A similar provision was UD.fortuntel put into the Constitution of the State of Ohio, under wllich their people are acting, and the tendency of, which, been to check the ra,roa- 4aud,other improve meDtS in that State. Lands have been ex, orbit-antly high, and where commissioners or jurors appointed to determine the damages to be paid to the party have not been permitted, to consider. the, benefits, have increased the expense of the right of way to such an extent -that it has been almost impossible to build railroads, or any other roads, streets or highways. Mr. UNDERWOOD. Have we not been IliviDg under this principle since 1852 ei-ahteen years last past? Mr. ALLEN, of Crawford. I do not understand that we have, though I am, not familiar with the legislation upon th,,t subject. I think I understand something about: what is right between railroad companies or other companies proposing to make improvements. When parties interested n building a railroad, establish a depot upon my land, in my judgment, its value is increased. If I can add to the value of my propertv by work of this kind APRIL 30, 1870. DEBATES A~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~J) ~~~~ROQEEDJXGS. 1583~~~~~~~~~ lars per mile, for passing through im proved lands, is the ordinary charge of damages. If this section fifteen had been in the present Constitution it would have inflicted upon Chicago an irreparable damage, for under such a section it would be almost impossible to bring another rail road into Chicago from any portion of the State. The attempt to carry a road across sub urbs claimed by speculators to be worth from three to ten thousand dollars per acre, would cost more than the road would be worth, or the company could possibly afford to pay. It would operate as a pro hibitory tariff on railway extensions. I ask how is the government of Chicago to widen our streets? We have hundreds of streets in our city originally laid out im properly, that we are continually extend ing or widening, and in regard to which we are endeavoring to correct the errors of the original plats. Under this propo sition, the cost would be such to the city, that the public would never permit any thing of the kind to be done at the ex pense of the city treasury. Yet the widening or extending of the street may benefit the property vastly in excess of the damage to the property itself. I know of a number of improvements in that city now going on, in which the ben efits are notoriously imnmensely greater than the damages, but where if no bene fits were to be deducted, the owners would come up with claims for hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars damages. The inevitable result would be that the people would not permit the improve ment of the street, and it would never be widened or extended. All this class of improvements would be arrested forever. The class of men referred to by my friend from Adams [Mr Skinner] are too numerous in every community for the community's good; stiLgy, selfish, grasp ing men, who want a railroad built, but they want to ride dead-head on the cars; men who would profit by all the enter prise of the community, but never contribute one cent thereto; who want other men to open their pocket-books for the public good, while they contribute cnothisg; drones in the hive, who suck honey but gather none; men who in war are willing to sacrifice their wife's relations to save the country, but none of their own kith or kin; who want other men to bear the heat and burden of the day, while they repose in the shade; who desire railroads to run through their lard, provided they can have all the benefit accruing to their property, and full payt for all damages, though their neighbors nmust pay the money; men who want turnpikes built and public improvements of every sort constructed through their - property, always receiving therefor ample damages and deducting nothing for benefits; men for whom the criminal laws are necessary, to keep their hands out of their neighbors' pockets; these, sir, are the various classes of men with whom this provision will be popular. There are far too many of these people in the community, dead-weights on other people's efforts and enterprise. They grapple by the throat every enterprising community and say, "Not a step shall you go until you pay me toll." These men are the curse of any community, and where they predominate, there must be a dead, dormant, lifeless, motionless people. It is only in those portions of the country i i i ApRiL 30, 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1583 vate property a sort of a system of pi racy, legalized by law. We will, therefore, concede this prin c.iple, as beidg Well established, that benefits may be allowed as compensation for propertv taken. But when we do that, it is so far departing from the oria inal correct principle of compensation, that we should approach the subject with very great care and consideration. Through the length and breadth of the State, the proportion of the eople that p would be in favor of allowing benefits as par' compensation would be about one in every ten. The people of the State are almost unanimously opposed to that sys tem. Now, that we have engrafted upon this Constitution so many astonishing prinei cles which are obnoxious to the people, let us do something that they will be in favor of, that will aid the Constitution in its adoption by the people. I There is 110 soundness in the principle advocated by the gentleman from Craw ford Li4r. Allen]. Where is the correctness or the principle that would require a man to pay the be!: efits. his neighbor receives? It would be a very great hard - ship to oblige a man. whose land is not taken, to contribute for the benefit of a public work, and it is equally a hardship' for the man whose property is taken. I object to the principle that make.,; a man my debtor without my consent. I do not ask the public, in the first place, to take my property-. There is no privity of' contract. I never asked corporations to come around my premises and ta'ke my private property-. then why charge me when my neighbor is benefited just as much as uayself? It is a just principle that public burdens should fall upon all alike, and that where benefits' are general, they should be shared eqaally. Mr. M:EljlLL. Mr.. President: The section, as amended by the proposition of the gentleman from St. Clair [Mr. 'LTnderwood], will, in my opinion, be one of the most injurious propositions:- in the entire Constitution. The section as it stands, if ratified by the people, will, so long as the Constitution endures, weigh down upon the enterprise of this State like a mill-stone. That has been the experience of other States, where the prop osition offered by the gentleman from St. Clair Mr. Underwood has been where the enterprising and public-spirit ed, go-ahead'men predominate, and are able to pick up and carry along these dead-woo,d men, that there is any enter l,rise, improvement or progress. I am willing that private property; taken for public use, shall be paid for, but it should be subject to accruing ben efits. The owner should not have both damages and benefits, the former to be a tax on his neighbors. I will not vote to allow people to rush into court and harass the community with suits for construc tive damages, pretended damages, obtain ed by packed.juries, subject to no deduc tion for benefits. I can fitid in no Constitution of any State, such a provision as this in line firs-,-, section fifteen: "Private property shall not be taken or damaged for public use." It is a wild innovation-an untried, and I fear, dangerous experiment. The remedy for damages will remain with the Legislature. Why forestall the legislative body? Why force such a, 'tion into the fundame t I law? propose Every day that the Constitution exists with this provision, "or damage," will be a day of damage and injury to the enterprise of the State. The injurv of its pres. ence will be fllt from the start and to the end'and every public enterprise will suffer from,its evil effects. I am very much surprised that the Convention seriously proposes to step on this untrodden ground, and not to profit by' the experience of other States who have taken some of the steps here proposed, to their great loss and damage. Mr. SPRINGER. Mr. President: I am very much in hopes that thi auaeddment will be' adopted, notwithstanding the very erer.tic remarks of the gentleman from Cook [Mr. Medill]. I am not able to see wherein that is justice which authorizes.any man or any association of men, for the benefit of a public or private corporation, to divest a inIan of his property without paying him for it. The gentleman says this is a new princiole sought to be incorporated in our fundamental law. I apprehend, sir, that it is as old as free government. We simply provide that when a man's proper is taken for a public use, he shall be paid' for it. -.hat is all. We do not propose to sto the wheels of ro ress. We do 0 ,5S4 L AN N O S...... and common council claim the law is, they have the right to take or damage private property to any extent, without making any compensation whatever. In view of the activity and increasing influence of the vari ous "rings" and "cliques" of speculators, it is really necessary that some such protection should be afforded to the quiet, industrious tax-paying, law-abiding citizen, who mincids his own private business, and lets cliques and speculators alone. Shculd the present oppor tunity be lost, of affording property owners this measure of relief against this reckless legislation, we will scarcely know, as things have been running for the last year or two, whether we own any property or not, and if a piece is purchased at a high price, suposing it to be valuable, we do not know how soon the value may be taken out of it, for public purposes, that is, the benefit of some ring of speculators. Mr. SKINNER. Will the gentleman inform us whom that is from? Mr. HAINES, of Cook. It is from one of my constituents. Mr. SKINNER. Fow much is he worth? Mr. HAINES, of Cook. About a mil tion, I should think. Mr. SKINNER. How much has he done for the public interest? Mr. HAINES, of Cook. He has built a great many buildings, warehouses, canals, dams and locks, and works of that kind, I believe. Mr. SKINNER. Is he in the warehouse clique? Mr. HAINES, of; Cook. I could not tell you. Mr..SKINNER. We ask to be protected from that class. Mr. HAINES, of Cook. I believe I have the floor. Now, Mr. President, I claim it is wrong that when the public is to be benefited, it should require one single individual to suffer one iota without remunerating him to the extent of his damages. We have one entire street in the city of Chicago that has absolutely and positively been appropriated entirely by a railroad, so that there is neither ingress nor egress to the property holders upon that street-a street three quarters of a mile lobg, at least. When these property holders applied for an injunction, when the railroad track was laid, the superior court of the city of Chicago granted an injunction. The case was taken to the supreme court, and that court decided the property holder had no remedy, that the control of the streets of the city of Chicago was in the common council entirely and absolutely, and that as they had given permission to that railroad to lay its tracks upon the street, the property owners had nno remedy, at law or elsewhere. Now, if that is the law of this State, it is high time it should be changed-that we put something into the Constitution to prevent further legislation of that kind. I refer to Beach street, on which the Chicago and Alton and the Fort Wayne railroads run from their depot. Mr. MEDILL. It was worthless before the crack was laid on it. CMr. HAINES, of Cook. It does not matter what the property was worth. It was absolutely taken and blotted out-1 what value there was to it-by the running of the railroad upon that little narrow street, of about thirty feet in width. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The question is upon the adoption of the amendment offered by the gentleman from St. Clair [Mr. UnderwoodJ. The Secretary read the amendment of w i fered by Mr. Underwood, as follows: Insert after the w or d "c ompens ation," i n the second line, the following: " Nor shall deductions be made of benefits the owner receives in common with adjacent land owners." The yeas and nays were ordered, and, being taken, resulted —yeas 30, nays 18as follows: Allen of Alex. C ame ro n, Allen of C'fd. Eldredge, Anderson, Forman, Archer, Fox, Benjamin, Hay, Buxton, Medill, tween m and adman- between the citizen and the State. Let us take a broader view of the rights of men and their relations to the government, and let us settle the principle, for all time to come, that private property shall be held sacred, and that it shall never be taken for public use, except upon a just and adequate compensa tion being made therefor. The gentleman tells us that we who ask for this principle are the class of men for whom the criminal statutes are made, to keep our hands out of the pock ets of our neighbors. I tell the gentle man, that the crimi:ial statutes ought to be made for those men who would rob a man of his property and give him noth ing in return. He desires to protect these "public spirited men " who are in favor of thus sacrificing the individual member of society. "We would pay them," he says, " for their damagecs." Yes, pay the public spirited- men who have involved the counties and cities of the State in debts amounting to millions of dollars for the benefit of private corporations, while the man who, from a sense of justice, refuses to thus trample upon the rights of others, must be sacri ficed to satisfy the greed and lusts of these public spirited men and corporations. This amendment provides that a person whose land is condemned for public uses, shall not pay for such incidental advantages or benefits as may result to all men in common, who reside or hold property in the neighborhood of the improvement. If he receives any especial benefit therefrom, he may be charged with it in estimating his damages. Is there anything wrong in such a proposition? Is there anything in it inconsistent with public improvement, or that would for any unjust reason, defeat "public spirited " gentlemen from gratifying their propensities to indulge in financial speculations or from contributing of their means to " great public enterprises?" If it is an evidence of dishonesty to claim that men shall deal justly with men, let it be said that we are dishonest; but, until it is so proven, we claim that we have a right to insist upon the recognition of this essential principle of government, and the adoption of such measures as will protect the citizen in his xight'~ to his property. M~(r. HAINES, of Cook. Mr. President: I hold in my hands a letter to myself, on this fifteenth section, and I will say to my colleague [Mr. Medill] that it is not from a man from whom the public nleed protection by criminal laws, to prevent him from putting his hands into the pockets of his neighbor; but it is from one of the most prominent and influential men in the city of Chicago, who has been identified with a great many permamenit and prominent improvements, nolt only in the city of Chicago, but in the State. With perm~ission of the Convention} I will read it: Rice, Robinson, Scholfield, Sutherland, L, Truesdale, Wells, Wendiing, Wheaton, Whiting, Wright,, Mr. President-35 So the amendment o ffered by Mr. Un derwood was ag reed t o. The PRESIDENT. The question is on the adoption of the section. Mr. ARCHER. I move the previous question. Mr. ATKINS. I hope the gentleman from Pike [Mr. Archer] will withdraw that motion. I wish to offer an important amendment relating to the agricultural interests of the State. I would like to read it for information. It is as follows: Laws may be passed permitting the own. ers or occupants of land to construct drains and ditches for agricultural and sanitary purposes across the lands of others. This amendment is copied from the constitution of New York of 1867. Mr. HAINES, of Lake. It does not add any force to the Constitution at alL Mr. ATKINS. I can show by authority that it does. Does the gentleman from Pike [Mr. Archer] persist in his motion? Mr. ARCHER. I withdraw it, provided the gentleman renews it. Mr. HAY. I hope the gentleman from Morgan [Mr. AtkiDs] will consider whether he cannot make it a separate section. I would be favorable to that proposition. Mr. ATKINS. Very well. I will do so. The motion of Mr. Archer, for the previous question was agreed to, and the main question ordered. The Secretary read section fifteen, as amended, as follows: Sac. 15. Private property shall not be taken or damaged for public use without just compensation, nor shall deductions be made of benefits the owner receives in common with adjacent land owners. Such compensa. tion, when not made by the State shall be ascertained by a jury, as shall be prescribed by law. The fee of land taken for railroad tracks without consent of the owners thereof, shall remain in such owners, subject to the use foi which it is taken. The yeas and nays were ordered. 1584 CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION SATURDAY, YRAS. Atkins, Bayne, Browning, Brvan, Church, Cody, Cross, Cummings, Fuller, Gamble, Goodell, Sherrill, Haines of CookSnyder, Haines of LakeSpringer, Hankins, Tincher, Hart, Tubbs, Hildrup, T MCC03F,''nd,rrood, Parker, Vandeventer, Poage, Wa,ner Sedgwick, waft-36. NA.YS. Ross, Sharp, Skiiiner, 'wall,' Washburn, Wilson-18. ABSENT, OR NOT VOTING. Abbott, Anthony, Bownian, Bromwiell,' Brown, Cary, Colbaugh, Craig, Dement, Ellis, English, Goodhue, Hanna, Harwood, Hayes, Kiiaix. McIIY6well Merriam, Moore, Neece, Parks, Perley Peirce' Pillsbury, C]aICA.GO, April 27,1870. Bon. John C. ITaine8., DEAR SIR:-It is but seldom I troule our law or Constitution makers with opinions of mine, and I hope, you will excuse me on this occasion. In reading our bill of rights pro 08ed for the new Constitution, it strikes me fh the fifteenth and sixteenth sections are eminently necessary, just and proper. As the law now if3, or as the board of idublic works API 0 80 EAE N RCEIG.18 tected from destruction, unless we insert a provis i on her e to a uth orize their destru c tion. The other amendment is, " or exemptions." I will explain what I mean by " exemptions." One of the great evils all over the United States is, the exercise by the General Assembly of the power of dispensing with the right of taxation. It has been so in OhiL, and almost every other Sta, e in the Union. Sometimes an immense body of land, by special grant, is made exempt from taxation forever. The courts disagree as to the power of the Genieral Assembly, without constitutional authority to parcel out that which constitutes the life-blood of the -State its public revenue —but the current doctrine is, that where such a grant is madle, it is a contract, and that such property is exempt forever. There is to-day in Ohio, or was in former years, at Miami University, a large district belonging to that institution exempt from taxation. [Here the hammer fell.] Mr. McDOW,ELL. Mr. President: I desire to call the attention of the Conven~tion to what is a contradiction in this section. It declares that no law shall impair the obligations of contracts, nor .make any irrevokable grant of special privileges or immunities. A law is passed under which persons or corporations enter into a contract that ought not to be violated, but always sustained. ~ The latter portion of this seems in conflict with the first- part. I desire, if in order, to move to strike out all of the section after the word'contracts." We propose, after these laws have been passed, and organizations have taken place, in good faith, to strike out and to do away with all that has been done, to violate pledges that may have been made. And, fu-ther, in doing this we are doing exactly what I believe a large majority of the Convention have expressed opposition to- we are specially legislating upon the subject. We ought not so to do. I will, therefore, without taking up the' time of the Convention, move to strike out aftcer the word "contracts,"} the remainder of the section. The PRESIDENT,:pro tempore. The question will be in order after the disposition of the amendment of the gentleman from Adams [Mr. Skinner]. Mr. CHURCH. Mr. President:'I regard the amendment offered by the gentleman from Adams [Mr. Skinner] as striking at the very heart of the Consfl. rution that we propose to make, so far as, regards the relationls we propose to allow to exist between the people of this State, and corporations hereafter to be created. I concede that for one, that in the insertion of this clause in the bill of rights, I did mean' and such I believe to have been the meaning of the whole committee, to strike out the very power of the Legislature hereafter to ever grant any corprorate privileges whatever but such as should be subject to law. It, sir, is a: very IBetal error that the gentleman has fallen into, and that many other public spirited menl halve fallen into, who desire to encourage internal improvements -by private corporations, that to reserve the control of those corporations in the sovrereign power of the State, will be to discourage the investment of capital for such purpose. I do not believe, sir, that such will be or ever has been the effect. In our sister State of Wisconsin, ca~ it: under such general law and afford sufficient guarantee to enable them to survive. If not, the effect will be, if we leave their being and existence open to future legislation, we, by one fell stroke, estab-. lish all our now leading thoroughfares as tmonopolies. We make their stock overwhelmingly valuable, guarded by what is called "vested rights." But, take these safeguards away from new corporations, and the old will have the power of controlling the carrying of our State for all time to come. The small interests, the new roads, in which every man in the interior is interested, without the same advantages and benefits, cannot get capital to build them. They will be broken down. What will be the effect? When a corporation is organized under general law, the privileges conferred by that general law are special privileges. If we say these may be destroyed at the will of the General Assembly, then they stand upon a foundation of sand, and cannot subserve the interests of the State. Take this locality. The time is not far distant when little railroads wil.l be built from town to town, ten or fifteen miles long, at from five to eight thousand dol lars a mile little iron highways, built by subscription, public and private. We, in this section, say all these may be wiped out by the General Assembly. Now, under the general laws, unlcs3 containing so)me extraordiLary provision when a corporation is formed, it takes the rights of life and being forever, which accrues to it under the general law, just as much as if under special act. But the General Assembly may change that law from period to period, not, however, destroying the rights which accrued to it. Mr. ROSS. Mir. President: I would ask if the gentleman regards a railroad charter as irre-vocab' e? Mr. SKINNER Mr. President: When a corporation is organized under what is called a special law (and ordinarily when under general laws without extraordinary provision), and has life and being for the exercise of the powers and privileges conferred, a correlative duty belongs to the government to protect it, just as much as if it were a contract between A and B. What do we d1 then, if we take a different course here? The effect is to cripple and destroy future corporations. The people of Illinois want progress and developement. Are they prepaired to say by a provision of the Constitution that the existing railroad corporations shall be the only and sole controlling power among carrying corporations in this State'? Will they create a broad and lasting distinction among carrying corporations->between those heretofore created and those hereafter to be created? It would destroy every hope of Mew corporations having force and vitality to carry out the purposes of their organization. It would make monopolies of, in to e largest possible sense, and would be paying money by millions to existing railroad corporations. But I will not argue further on this subject. I ask that the words, "by special law" be inserted. Then, any immunities or privileges conferred by any special law or private act would be revocable at the legislative will. We have general laws under which corporations are formed, and by which they are pro Allen of Alex.,Eldredge, Sedgwick, Allen of Crfd.,Forman, Sherrill, AndersoD, Fuller, Snyder, Archer, Gamble, Springer, Atkins, Goodell, -Tincher, Bayne, Haines of Cook,Tubbs, Benjamin, Haines of Lake,Turner, Bryan, Hankins, Underwood, Buxton, Hart, Vandeventer, Cary, Hildrup, Wagner, Chuirch, McCoy. Wait, Cody, Parker, Washburn, Cross, Poage, Wilson-40. Cummings, r VOTING. Rice, Robinson, Seholfield, Sutherland, Truesdale, Wendling, Wheaton, Whiting, Wright, Mr. President-32. So section fifteen, as amended, was agreed to. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The question is upon section sixteen. The Secretary read section sixteen, as follows: SEC. 16. The General Assembly shall not pass any ex post facto law, or law impairing the obligation of contracts, nor make any irrevocable grant of special privileges or immunities. Mr. SKINNER. Mr. President: I desire to propose two amendments to this section, and then make a few remarks in explanation of them: Insert after the word "make," in the second line the words, "by special law," and add totheendoftthe section the words "orexemptions." qlhe article upon the legislative department, in substance and effect, confines the creation of all corporations, except municipal, to organizing under one common general law. Now, that general law will be subject to all proper alteration, change and amendment from time to time. If, as to all future corporations, we take away the fundamental guarantee of ,non-destruction by the Legislature, and confine the Legislature in voting upon these corporations, to police matters, we subserve the public interest: for, in my judgment, the police power extends to the regulation of the tariff and freights and the mode and manner of conducting their affairs. If that is the case, then we encourage the creation of corporations 397 APP.-IL -30, 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1585 The Secretary proceeded to call the roll. Mr WASHBURN (when his name was called) said: Mr. President: Some of the provisions in this section, especially that one in regard to offsettidg benefits against damages, are so much in the interest of railroad monopolies in this State, and so much against the interests of the people I represent, in their enterprises of building railroads, that I can hardly reconcile myself to vote for it. But, as there are other ]portion s of the section which are absolutely essential to the protection of the property of the citizen, I cannot vote against it.'I vote "Aye." The result'was then announced-ye,s, 40; nays, 11-as fo'llows: YEA.S. Brownin Cameron Fox, Hay, NAY$ . McDowell, I Medill, Ross,, Sharp, SIMNT, OR NO Hanna, Harwood, . Hay es, I King, . Merriam, Moore, Neece, Parks, Perley, Peirce, Pillsbury, Skinner, Wall, Wells-11. Abbott, Anthony, Bowman, Bromwell, Brown, Coolbaugh, Craig, Dement, Ellis, I English, Goodhue, 158w CO~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~STITIIT1ONAL ()ONYE~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~TION SATURDAY,~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ aged. The fact is that it is not the inter est of capital, directly invested by stock holders, that is sought to be subserved by these officers of corporations, for, on the contrary, it is the interest that some of them may hold in other regards than as stockholders. It is true, as was said at the time one of these great corporations was first organiz ed and was beginning to operate, by a distinguished gentleman from Chicago, who is now no more, but who will be remembered by the delegates from that city, that that railroad corporation was a "splendid real estate speculation with a railroad attachment." That, sir, was very truly said, and it is true of a large number of the railroad corporations of the State now. We are told, sir, that these railroad corporations are not making money, that they are not paying dividends to their stockholders, and that, therefore, they cannot reduce their rates for transportation, that they cannot subject themselves to lower tolls and other regulations that the imperative demands of commerce and agriculture require, because they already are not earning enough money to pay proper dividends to their stockholders; and undoubtedly their stockholders very often are made to believe it; when, what is the real state of the case? Why, their superintendents, presidents and directors, after having built a railroad, the ordinary receipts of which, under proper regula tions and reasonable tolls and rates, would produce a proper income to the stockholders, have some large tract of land which they have procured at government price, or perhaps at a graded price, and also have perhaps bought inidividually-not as stockholders -tracts of land, here and there, at different points, for fifty or a hundred miles reaching off to this great tract of land, which they have bought for the purpose of locating their depots and stations. They take then the very earnings of the railr()ads that are now built and that should constitute a fund for the distribution of dividends to their stockholders, and run a new branch off somewhere to their yet almost unexplored territory, whereby their directors, superintendents, and presidents become vastly rich all at once, while the stockholders receive no compensation. And to how many instances in this State can we point, of officers of railroad companies, whose property is rated at many millions of dollars, who have never been engaged in any other business than railroading and who never received a dividend on their stock. [Here the hammer fell]. Mr. BROWNING. Mr. President: i move the previous question. NAYS. Allen of Alex.,Forman, Sedgwick, Allen of Cr'fd.,Fuller, Sherrill, Anderson, Gamble, Springer, Archer, Goodell, Tincher, Benjamin, Haines of CorkTu bbs, Bryan, Haines of LakeTurner, Buxton, Hankins, Vandeventer. Cameron, Hart, Wagner, Cary, Hildrup, Wait, Church, McCoy, Washburn, Cross, Medill, Wells, Cummings, Parker, Wilson-38. Eldredge, Rosa, be said th at t he peopl e have labored un der any difficulties, under any wants not gratified in respect to the building of railroads, or in respect to the combination of capital of individuals in corporations for any business purpose, by reason of the power to regulate their concerns, and even limit the tolls and compensations they shall take, being reserved in the General Assembly? I say, sir, that I have never heard any complaint of that kind, and I live upon the very border of that State upon a rail road passing my place of residence a few miles before it enters that State, where, therefore, a portion of it becomes subject to the laws and limitations of that State. There is the same ease, the same readiness of capitalists to engage in the construc tion of roads there as here, and yet this very clause exists in the Constitution. It applies to railroad companies, to all corporations, to all persons, individuals or associations, and seeks to bring to one common level all persons, corporations, money and property of the State, whereby there shall not be granted to any person, corporation, association or combination, any power that is higher than the sovereign power of the State. If it is true that there is a growth within us that has risen above us, we never wish to encourage that growth hereafter. If any institutions have grown up amongst us, that have received from the State, powers that can not be controlled by the State, that are higher than the State, let us put an end to the possibility of any such growing up hereafter., do not believe-that there are any institutions now in the State but what the sovereign power of the Statel may reach, and yet perhaps such franchises and privileges have been granted and rights secured, by being improvidently yielded by the State, as to require the exercise of a power based upon other contingencies than the mere common principles of legislation to subject them to the common level. But we propose in this Constitution to assert the right and lay the foundation, to place all privileges heretofore granted upon a common level, subject to legislative control in the future. It does not follow that because the right is reserved in the sovereign power of the State to withdraw or receive any privileges it has granted, that therefo~re it- will do so. That the State has the right to inflict any injury, and, therefore, it will do se, is not a fair presumption. It does not follow, that because the power is vested mn the Legislature of the State, acting as the representatives of the whole people, to regulate the property invested inl railroad corporations, to regulate even the amount of tolls, that they will ever do so. It does not follow, if they do so, that it will ever try to destroy or injure the value of the property that is invested. I thinkk that I but speak the interests of the stockholders themselves, of the very iterests held by the capital that has built these railroads, when I say that those interests would generally be better subserved now, if the whole regulation wvere within the power of the General Assembly, rather than the power of the dizectors, superintendents, presidenits and other officerss that they themnselves have elected, that so far as the interest of cap ital itself is conlcernled, it would thereby be subserved, and its investments encour Abbott, Goodhue, Poage, Anthony, Hanna Rice, Bayne, Harwood, Robinson, Bowman, Hayes, Scholfield, Bromwell, King, Sutherland, Brown, Merriam, Truesdale, Coolbaagh, Moore, Wendling, Craig, Neece, Wheaton, Dement, Parks, Whiting, Ellis, Perley, Wright, English, Peirce, Ma. 1re<.ident-35. Fox, Pillsbury, So the amendments offered by Mr. Skinner were not agreed to. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The question is upon the motion of the gentleman from White [Mr. McDowell] which is to strike out all after the word "contracts," in the second line of section sixteen. The yeas and nays were ordered, and being taken, resulted-yeas, 7, nays, 42 -as follows: YEAS. ADJOURNMENT. A Mr. FOREMAN. Mr. President: I move that we now adjourn until Monday morning, at ten o'clock. The motion was not agreed to. NAYS. Allen, of Alx. Eldredge, Sedgwick, AllenofCwf'd, Forman, Sherrill, Anderson, Fox, Snyder, Archer, Fuller, Springer, Atkins, Gamble, Tincher, Benjamin, Goodell, Tubbs, Bryan, Haines,of CookTurner, Buxton, Haines of L'ke, Underwood, Cameron, Hart, Vandeventer, Cary, Hay, Wagner, Church, Hildrup, Wait, Cody, McCoy, Washburn, Cross, Medill, Wells, Cummings, Parker, Wilson — hBILL OF RIGHITS-AGAIN. Mr. TINCHER. Mr. President: If the gentleman from Adams [Mr. BrowniDg] will withdraw his motion for the previous question for a moment, I would like to offer the following amendment. Add to the section the following: "Any amendments made to existing charters of corporations shall subject them to future legislation.,, Mr. BROWNING. Mr. President: I 1686 CONSTIT'UTIONAL CONVENTION SATURDA-7, must insist upon my Inotion for the previous question. The'motion for the previous question was agreed to, and the main question ordered. The PRES.IDEN.T. The question is upon the amendment offered by the,gentleman from Adams [Mr. Skiniaer]. The Secretary read the amendment offered by Mr. Skinner, as follows Insert after the word "make," in the second line, "by special law," and add to the end of the section "orexemptions.11 Mr. McDOWELL. I move that the Convention now tidjou'rn. The PRESIDENT, vro tempore. The question is upon the ameLdmeDtS Of the gentleman from Adams [Mr. Skinner]. The yeas and Days were ordered, and, being taken, resulted-yeas, 10; -Days, 38 -as follows: TRA.S. McDowell, Sharp, Snyder, Atkins, Browning, Cody, Hay, Skinner, Underwood, Wall-10. A.BSENT, OR NOT VOTING. Goodhue, Poage, Hanna Ric, Harwood, Robinson, Hayes, Scholfield, King, Sutherland, Merriam, Truesdale, Moore, Wendling, Neece, Wheaton, Parks, Whiting, Perley, Wri4,ht, Peirce. 1.-e-ilent-35. Pillf3burv, amendments offered by Mr. Browning, I-lankins, McDowell, Ross, Sharp, Skinner, Wall-7. ABSENT, OR NOT VOTING. I-lanna, Poage, Harwood, Rice, Hyes, Robinson. I King,, Scholfield, Abbott, knthody, Bayne, Bowman, API - 0 180 EAE N RCEIG.18 move to strike out in the first line, the word "ought" and insert "shall." Y r. BENJAMIN. Mr. President: This section is also in the present Consti tution. It is declaratory of rights, not of po ~vers. The suggestion occurred to me in the committee, but I think the word "ought" more proper. Mr. ARCHER. Mr. President: I move to lay the amendment on the table. Mr. McDOWELL. Mr. President: The amendment should include the word ',to"-strike out the words "ought to" and insert "shall." The motion of Mr. Archer, to lay on the table the amendment offered by Mr. Mc D)well was agreed to. Section twelnty one was agreed to. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The question is on section twenty-two. The Secretary read section twenty-two as follows: SEc. 22. A frequent recurrence to the fundamental principles of civil government is absolutely necessary to preserve the blessings of liberty. Mr. WELLS. Are all the fundamental principles of government supposed to be coIntaiij(ed ill the Constitution? ["Yes." "Yes."] M r. ATKINS. Mr. President: I movero that the Convention do now adjourn. The motion was not agreed to. Sectioi twenty two was agreed to. Mr. ROSS. Mr. President: I desire to offer an additional section: The Secretary read the additional sectiol (offered by Mr. Ross, as follows: SEc. 23. That the people of this State regard the union of the States under the federal Constitution as permanent and indissoluble, from which no State has a constitutional right to withdraw or secede. Mr. VANDEVENTER. Mr. President. I move the previous question. ADJOURNMENT. Mr. HAINES, of Lake. I move that we now adjourn. The motion was agreed to. So the Convention (at twelve o'clock and thirty-seven minutes) adjourned. Merriam, Sutherland Moore, Truesdale, Neece, Wendling, Parks, Wheaton, Perley, Whiting, Peirce, Wright, Pillsbury, Mr. President-34. So the motion of Mr. McDowell, to strike out was not agreed to. Sectio n fifteen w as agreed to. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The question is upon t he adoption of section sixteen. The Secretary read section sixteen, as follows: 8Ec. 16. The'General Assembly shall not pass any ex post Jacto law, or law impairing the obligation ot' contracts, nor make any irrevocable grant of special privileges or immunities. Section sixteen was agreed to. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The question is on section seventeen. The Secretary read section seventeen, as follows: Sp.c. 17. The military ehall be in strict subordination to the civil power. Section seve,,teen was agreed to. The PRES,DIENT, pro tempore. The question is on section eighteen. The Secretary read sectian eighteen, as follows: Sic. 18. No soldier shall, in time of peace, be quartered in any house, without the cousent of the owner; nor in time of war, except in the manner prescribed by law. Haines of Co'k,Ross-3. Goodell, Rice" Goodhue, Robinson, Hanna, Scholfield, Har wood, Skinner, Haves, Sutherland, King, Truesdale, McDowell, Tubbs, Merriam, Wendling, Moore, Wheaton, Neece, Whiting, Parks, Wilson, Perley, Wright" Pillsburyr, Mr. President-39. Section eighteen was agreed to. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The question is on section nineteen. The Secretary read section nineteen, as follows: SE. 19. The people hav the the right to assemble together in a peaceable ma,ner, to consult for the common good, to make known their opinions to their representatives, and to apply for redress or grievances. Mr. TUBBS. Mr. President: I move to strike out in the second line, the words, "make known their opinions," and insert the word "inistruct." Mr. CARY. Mr. President: I move to lay the amendment on the table. The motion of Mr. Cary, to lay on the table the amendment offered by SHr. Tu-bbs, was agreed to. Section nineteen was agreed to.' The PRESIDEN T, pro tempore. The question is on section twenty. The Secretary read section twenty, as follows: SEC. 20. All elections shall be free and equal. Mr. FOX. Mr. President: Elections shall be equal does it mean the number of votes on each side shall be equal? [Laughter]. Mr. BENJAMIN. Mr. President: The section stands here as it does in the old Constitution. We have simply retained it. LEAVE OF, ABSENCE. Mr. WELLS. I desire to ask leave of absence until Tuesday. Mr. WAIT. In relation to this matter of leave of absence, I would say there is hardly a quorum present; and, as we ught to proceed with ou r business, leave of absence should not be granted, unless really necessary. Leave of absence was granted to Mr. Wells nem. con. The Convention met at two o'clock P. TM, and was called to order by the President pro; temipore (Mr. Bromwell.) BILL OF RIGHTS. Mr. CARY. Mr. President: I move to refer the proposition of the gentleman T trom Fulton [Mr. Rossi to the Committee on Federal Relations. The Secretary read the section prop )sed by Rr. Ross, as follows: That the people of this State regard the union of the bl ates under the federal Cinsti tution as permanent and indissoluble, from which no State has a constitutional right to withdraw or secede. Mr ROSS. Mr. President: I object to the motion. The previous question was pending when we adjourned. The FRESIDEN', pro tempore. The journal shows that the previous question wsas not ordered. lAir. HAINES, of Cook. Mr. Preside'it: I call for the yeas and nays. I think this is a proper place for the sectimp, and I wish to have it inserted here. The yeas and nays were not ordered. I he question being upon the motion of Any amendments m ade to charters of corporations nfow existing, shall subject them to future legislation. Mr. TINCHER. I propose this section, believing it essentially ne-cessary. There are many corporations now in existence in this State, aind if we have parted with the right to control them, we would like to regain it, if possible, under a new contract, when they come back for additional legislation,by some such provision in the Constitution. I have never believed in the doctrine, that the people of the State have parted with the control over these corporations. It may be urged that this is not the place for such a section, but if so, the Committee on Revison and Adjustment SEc. 21. Eve ry person within this Stat ought to find a certain remedy in the law for all -injuries or wrongs which he may rt ceive in his person, )r,,perty or characte He ought to ob)tain right and justice ft'eel! and without being obli.ged to purchase i! completely and without denial; promptly an without delay, conformably to the laws. Mr. McDOWELL. tAr. President: APRIL',PO, 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1587 Mr. Cary, to refer the section offered by Mr. Ross to the Committee on Federal R61ations A division was ordered. The Convention divided, when, there b6iiig thirty-one in the affirmative and six in the negative, there was no quorum voting. Mr. ROSS. I demand the yeas and nays. The yeas and navs were,ordered, and bciiig taken, resulted-yeas, 41; nays, 3 -as follows: Bromwell, Brown, Co'olbaugh, Craig, - Dement, Ellis, 'Englif,h, Goodhue, yS. Allen of Alex.,Fox, Allen of Crfd.'Fuller, Anderson, Gamble, Archer, Haines of Llk, Atkins, Hankins, Benjamin Hart, Browning, Hay,' Buxton, Hildrup, Cameron, McCoy, Cary, Medil7l.' Church, Parker, Cody, Peirce, Cross, Poage, Eldredge, Sedgwick, Sharp, Sherrill, Snyder, Springer, Tincher, TurDer, Underwood, Vandeventer, Wagner, Wait, Wall, Washbur, Wells-41. NA.YS. Cummings, A.BSENT, OR NOT VOTING. Abbott, Anthony, Bayne, Bowman, Bromwell, Brown, Bryan, Coolbaugh, (-ral.g, Dement, Ellis, English, Forman, So the motion of Mr. Cary, to refer the additional section offered oy iVIr. R(.)ss, to the Committee on Federal Relations, was agreed to. AFTERNOON SESSION. SATU-RDAY, April 30,1870. BILL OF RIGIITS-AGAIN. Mr. TINCHER. I desire to introduce an additional section. The Secretary read the additional se. tiod, as follows: ["What does it mean I.?"] Section twenty was -agreed to. Th —, PRESIDEN r, pro tempore. The question is on section twenty-olie. The Secretary read section twenty-one, as follows: I p 158 COSIUTOA )+ETO AUDY Bowman, Harwood, Scholfield, Bromwell, Hayes, Skinner, Brown, King, Sutherland, Coolbaugh, McDowell, Truesdale, Craig, Merriam, Wendling, Dement, Moore, Wheaton, Ellis, Neece, Wright, English, Parks, Mr. President-36. So the motion of Mr. Allen of Crawford, to lay on the table the additional section offered by Mr. Tincher, was not agreed to. Mr. BENJAMIN. Mr. President: As the section now stands, it would, as I understand it, be a dangerous provision, because there would be an implication that existing corporations could stand aloof from and not be subject to the general laws of the State. It is a new question, and deserves deliberate consideration. I cannot concede that any individuals or corporations are not subject to the governmental powers of the State. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The question is upon the adoption of the section. Mr. WALL. I thought there was a motion to refer to the Committee on Miscellaneous Corporations. Mr. ARCHER. I withdrew that motion. Mr. WALL. I renew it. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The question is on the motion to refer the additional section to the Committee on Miscellaneous Corporations. A division was ordered, when, there be ing thirty-five in the affirmative and twelve in the negative, the motion was agreed to. Mr. ATKINS. Mr. President: I desire to offer an additional section. The Secretary read the additional section offered by Mr. Atkins, as follows: Laws may be passed, permitting the owners or occupants of lands to construct drains and ditches for agricultural and sanitary purposes, across the lands of others. Mr. ATKINS. Mr. President: What I have offered as an additional section, is copied, verbatim, from the New York Constitution of 1867, excepting that the words "and sanitary," following "agricultural," are added on the suggestion of various members of the Convention, with whom I have consulted upon the subject. In the New York Constitution of 1846, and prior Constitutions, there was nothing applicable to this subject, and in the earlier Constitutions of the differentt States of the Union, I think it probable that no provisions can be found applicable to the subject. By recent decisions of the courts of New York, and of other States, including our own, either a pplicable to this, or to subjects closely related to it, it has been settled that under the present Constitution, laws providing for private cartways, or for establishing a system of compulsory drainage are not constitutional. It is well known that our supreme court, in the 39th ills., in the case of _Yesbitt vs. Trumbo, and later in the case of CWrear vs. Crossly, in the 40th Ills., which I hold in my hand, decided that our law in relation to private ways, which had been in force a great many years, and had been acted upon by the people in all parts of the State, was unconstitutional. The doctrine laid down in the last mentioned case, will be found, I think, upon examination, to decide clearly that all the Mr. ARCHER. Mr. President: I have nothing against the proposition of the gentleman from V ermilio n [Mr. Tincher], but he has, himself, suggested a good reason why it should not be considered now. I think it would be more properly in some other part of the Constitution, and move its reference to the Committee on Miscellaneieous Corporations. Mr. HAINES, of Lake. Mr. President: I think we had better act upon the proposition while we have it before us. I think this is the place for it; but, if adopted, the Committee upon Revision can piece it in some other place. The question is whether we are in favor of adopting the principle as pertaining to the rights of corporations. Mr. BUXTON. Mr. President: The language of the proposition of the gentleman from Vermilion [Mr. Tincher] seems to imply that an amendment to a charter of a corporation would be by special act, while we have provided in the legislative article that all legislation shall be by general law. I think the section should be framed in language not to imply special legislation. Mr. TINCHER. Mr. President: The proposition covers precisely what I want that if they avail themselves of any law, it shall be a general law, and thus render their contract a new one, and under legislative control. Mr. ALLEN, of Crawford. Mr. President: I move to lay the proposition upon the table. Mr. TINCHIER. The question, Mr. President, now is, whether we order the yeas and nays or not. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. If the gentleman wishes to amend, he can make the motion as soon as the Chair has stated the question. The question is on the motion to lay on the table, upon which the yeas and nays are demanded. The Secretary read the additional section offered by Mr. Tincher, as follows: Any amendments made to charters of corporations now existing, shall subject them to future legislation. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The question is on the motion of the gentleman from Crawford [Mr. Allen] to lay on the table the additional section offered by the gentleman from Vermilion [Mr. Tincher.] The yeas and nays were ordered, and being taken, resulted —yeas, 12, nays, 35 -as follows: drainage laws of this State, so far as they purport to be general drainage laws, are unconstitutional. 1 do not thin k a ny intelligent lawyer can read the opinion of th e sup reme court,'on page 177, of the 40th Ills. reports without coming to the conclusion that those drainage laws are unconstitutional. I am not left in that respect, however, entirely to my own opiniong for during the last winter Judge Walker, of the supreme court, brinlgidg the matter to my attention, referring to this decision of the court, that the doctrines laid down in that decision would probably render unconstitutional the drainage laws of the State, so far as they were of a general character, had no doubt and no hesitation in expressing his opinion that an amendment to the Constitution, to authorize the continuance and passage of such laws, was very desirable, and that furthermore, as a citizen, it was his opinion that few measures would come before this Convention that would be of more importance to the agricultural interests of the State, than those in regard to drainage laws and in regard to cart-ways Upon the question of cart-ways we have already acted; but not upon that of drainage. This question was up in the Constitutional Convention of New York of 1867, and underwent a thorough discussion there. I hold in my hand the fifth volume of the debates of that Convention in which that subject was discussed. This provision which I have introduced is embodied in section seven of the bill of rights of the Newt York Constitution, and it immediately follows what in this report is the last sentence in the fifteenth section of the article on the bill of rights, now under consideration: The fee of all land taken for railroad tracks without the consent of the owners thereof shall remain in such owners, subject to the sole possession of the railroad com pany while used for such purposes. General laws may be passed permitting the owners and occupants of land to construct and main tain necessary drains and ditches for agricul tural purposes across the lands of others. It appears that in the State of New York, there had been laws on the subject of drainage, which had been in force for considerable time, without question, but which were finally called in question and decided to be unconstitutional. On page 3,548 of the proceedings of the N~ew York Convention, Mir. Conlger, a distinguished lawyer and member of the Convention, says: MB. CO~OrR. Undrained land is not only valueless for the purposes of production, but is a source of pestilence. Malarious exhalations necessarily result, and what right has any man to prevent his neighbor endeavoring to impr ove the public health, as well as the productiveness of his own land, by improvements of this sort? Again said Mr. Conger, on same page: Those who are familiar with this subject know that there is a provision in the Revised Statutes on the subject. And the difficulty that has prevented action under the Reevised Statutes, has been on the ground that that section of the statute was unconstitutional. Now, then, we ask this in behalf of the agriculture of the State of New York, which can receive no valuable extension for the next twenty years unless this right of drainage be granted by this Convention. Said Judge Comstock, in discussing this question on a preceding pave: Believing that this is a useful provision, and demanded for the convenience of the agricultural community, I will say a word about it in reply to the argumen~ of the gentleman 1588 CONSTIT UTIONAL CONVENTION SATURDAY, I YEAS. Cummings, Eldredge, Fox, Ray, Anderson, Archer, Atkins, Browlling, Sharp, Snyder, Turner, Wall-i2. NAYS. Allen of Cwfd,Haines ofLake,Springer, Benjamin, Hankins Tincher, Bryan, Harti Tubbs, Buxton Hildrup, Underwood, Cameron, AICCOY, Vandeventer, Cary, Medill, Wagner Church, Parker, Waft, Cody, Peirce, Washburn, Cross, Poage, Wells, Fuller, Ross, Whiting, Goodell, Sedwick. Wilson-35. Raines ofCook,Sherrill, ABSENT, OR NOT VOTING. Abbott, Forman, Perley, Allen of Alxln,Gamble, Pillsbury, Anthony, Goodh-ue, Rice, Bayne, Hanna,;,_Robinson, APRIL 30, 1870. DEBATES AD PROCEEDINGS. 15Sf acres of land that is and will continue to be utterly valueless, unless there is some system by which it can be drained. This subject has been brought to the attention of this Convention, in an article in the Prairie Farmer last December, quoting a very perfect code of laws of Wisconsin on the subject of drainage. The whole subject elicits deep interest amongst the farmer of the State. [Here the hammer fell.] Mr. WHITING. Mr. President: I sympathize fully with the purpose of the gentleman from Morgan [Mr. Atkins], though I am not certain but that his provision should extend a little further than I think the language of it implies. There are swamps that not only need drainage across other people'sland, butthere are swamps in the State through which channels should be cut, that they may be quite distant from the lands which ought to contribute in the cutting of that channel -lands which are of but little value, and cannot be drained without such channels. There ought to be a principle in the Constitution by which a law can be passed, that all the lauds benefited should be assessed proportionately to benefits received. I am not certain but that the provision ought to extend to levees also. There are rich fiats upon the Illinois river, the Mississippi, and perhaps others, that need to be leveed upon the same principle. A levee, thrown up to protect large tracts of land, should all share in the expense, whether next to the levee or more remote, and should be assessed in proportion to the amount they are benefited. The only objection I have in supporting this resolution is that I fear it may not entirely cover the whole principle involved, and I hope that it may be either deferred, or referred to some committee, that the matter may be a little more fully considered. We have, in our part of the State, what are known as the " Winnebago swamps." The proposed principle might not cover those tens of thousands of acres of land held by numerous owners. Now, I have no doubt that the day is soon coming, when those swamps will be entirely removed from the map of the State, and will become land as rich and arable a s that of the Nile. The last Legislature passed a law for the purpose of enabling Bureau county to drain these lands. She has expended fifty thousand dollars already in drainage, and is now deepening the channel of Green river at an expense of forty-two thousand dollars, in one job. The county of Henry, a little below us, and the counties of Whiteside and Lee, a little above us may wish-o Mr. ATKINS. I would ask the f.entleman whether the lands to which he is referring, were not ceded by Congress, to those counties about twenty years agro t Are they not swamp lands ceded for pub C lie improvements a M.. WHITING. Those are the lands to which I refer, and the reason why we may need a law to cover the drainage is because some of the counties, improvidently, as I think, have sold the lands owithout draining, to individuals, therefore leaving it in the hands of individuals, who are incapable of draining, unless they can have some law by which they can co-operate together. - Therefore, it is necessary, I think, that this provision should be broad enough, from Steuben [Mr. Spencer]. The provision of the Constitution requiring that life, liberty, and property shall not be taken without due process of law, guarantees a very high and sacred right, which I will maintain at all times, and on all occasions; but I think I understand the nature of that provision. It is simply a restraint on the legislative powers of the State. It is a limitation of that authority which the Constitution delegates to the Legislature. Its meaning is this: That where there is a right vested under the Constitution and the laws of the State, it cann6t be taken away bv the Legislature. It may be perfect acco rding to pre-existing laws, but the forfeiture is to be ascertained and enforced only by due process in the courts of justice. We are not acting as a Legislature; we are representing the people in their sovereign capacity, and the question before us is what power we shall delegate to the Legislature. Shall we delegate to the Legislature the power to authorize these agricultural drains? That is the question, and the only one. Such a provision does not violate that sacred principle to which the. gontleman [Mr. Spencer] refers. The due process of law, after this power shall be delegated to the Legislature, will be those processes which the Legislature itself shall p,-ovide when it enacts a law authorizing the construction of these drains. That will satisfy the principle perfectly and completely. There are other views expressed by other gentlemen in that debate in harmony with these. This subject is becoming an important one in this State, in the proportion that our not desirable prairie and timber lands are brought under cultivation. Much valuable land is overflowed at times, and becomes low and swampy; so much so that a portion of the year it is valueless. It cannot be brought under cultivation or use until drainage is perfected, in some shape or form, and there must be some valid law by which it can be done. Let me give an illustration. Suppose A, B, C and D own six hundred and forty acres of land, side by side-one hundred and sixty acres apiece. A's portion is higher than that of the others, and he wants to bring that land under cultivation. It is swampy, not useful for tillage, useless for pasturage. He wants to drain it, digs a drain through his one hundred and sixty acres, and comes to the land of B, who, perhaps, is a non-resident, and holds his land for speculation, or cares nothing about the subject of drainage. He will neither drain his land nor permit his neighbor to enter,upon it, who cannot, of course, do so without being a trespasser. C., perhaps, is willing to unite with A and with B., but under the circumstances, B. will not drain his land, and nothing can be done. The result is, that the entire section of land which may be the most fertile in the county, and may be valuable for purposes of tillage or pasturage, is kept entirely out of cultivation, and rendered nearly valueless just from the obstinacy or indifference of one or two men. It A. drain through his land, it does him no good. The water simply flows back on1 his own premises. Unless there is some law by which it can be drained, it- is valueless. There is land in Morg n county which, ten or fifteen years ago, was offered at $5 to $10 an acre, and for which even that sum could not be obtained, which, to-day, simply in conseqlen}ce of being drained, is worth seventy five dollars per acre, and is developed into finely cultivated farms. Along man~y rivers, like the Mississippi and Illinois, and along many streamns and creeks, there arc tens of thousands 398 not only to allow us to drain sloughs from one man's land across another, butI to cover those swamp;, which embrace whole sections of land, disfiguring whole counties. It strikes me some principle should be also asserted by which levees could also be constructed. I hope the gentleman from Morgan rMr. Atkins] will press his resolution, but that it will be allowed to rest long enough to be carefully examined. Mr. HAINES, Of Lake. If the gentleman from Bureau [Mr. Whiting] has any additional proposition, let him offer it. This is before the Convention now, and it is good for all it calls for. If it is a grant of power to the General Assem bly, it is not necessary. If the State possesses the right of eminent domain without the Constitution, there is no necessity to grant power. My own opinion is, and always has been, that the State is strong enough to carry on all public improvements necessary. If the drainage of lands is not for a public purpose, it is not in the power of this Convention to delegate any power to make it public. I understand the gentleman's position is, that in the bill of rights as adopted, there is a restriction on the exercise of the power which he wishes here to ex. press. In that view, I am ready to support it. It may scare somebody, even if it has no validity, and may operate on the supreme court as a constitutional provi. sion. But there are some things that cannot be made constitutional. Neither this Convention or the Legislature can justify a trespass for a private purpose, and we are powerless to pass any provision authorizing a man for the mere private purpose of benefiting his own land, to enter on the land of another. The people, without any constitutional provision, by the nature of government, have the authority to enter on the lanI of any one, for a public purpose, and if drains are a public purpose, they need no declaration on our part to make them more so. But if, as the gentleman understands it and it seems to have been so understood by those eminent gentlemen who were in the Convention of New Yorkthe bill of rights, perhaps, has a restriction on that power, a provision in the nature of his suggestion, would be very proper, and perhaps had better be adopted. I move the previous question on his prvp~Jsition. The motion for the previous question was agreed to} and the main question was ordered. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The question is on the adoption of the section o)fiered by the gentleman from Morgan [Mr. Atkins]. Thle section was agreed to. Mr. TURNER. Mr. President: I now move that this article be referred to the Committee on Revision and Adjustment,. and upon that I move the previous question. Mr. HAINES, of Cook. Mr. President: I wish the gentleman would withdraw the motion a moment. I wish to move a reconsideration of section fifteen. Mr. TURNER. I withdraw the motion if there is to be no debate upon it. Mr. HAINES, of Cook. Mr. President: I now move that the Convention reconsider the vote by which section fifteen, of the article upon the bill of rights was agreed to. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1589 ApitIL 30, 1870. 1590 OST1TUTIOAL SATURDAY, The motionA wasare to Th PRSIET pr er. That Rihs to who was reomite secio The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. That was voted down. Mr. ALLEN, of Alexander. I mean the last one, Mr. President. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. That is part of the section now. Mr. ROSS. Mr. President: I move to re commit the section. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. To what committee? Mr. ROSS. Upon the Bill of Rights, Mr. President. Mr. HAINES, of Lake. Mr. President: I move to re-commit the whole article, as there are some suggestions to be made. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. There has been no motion to reconsider the re mainder of the article-only the fifteenth section. The others have all been adopted, and section fifteen is the only one before the Convention. The motion of the gentleman from Lake [Mr. Haines] cannot be entertained. The question is on the motion of the gentleman from Fulton [Mr. Ross], to recommit section fifteen to the Committee on Bill of Rights. The yeas and nays were ordered, and, being taken, resulted-yeas 26, nays 20as follows; Rights, t o whom was recommitted section fifteen, have authorized me to report back the s ection in th e following form. The Secretary r ead se ction fifteen, as follows: SEc. 15. Private proper ty shall n o t be taken or damage d for public use without just compensation. Such compensation, when not made by the State, shall be ascertained by a jury, as shall be prescribed by law. The fee of land taken for railroad tracks, without consent of the owners thereof shall remain in such owners, subject to the use for which it is taken. Mr. ALLEN, of Alexander. Upon that, sir, I move the previous question. The motion for the previous question was agreed to and the main question ordered. Section fifteen was agreed to. Mr. ALLEN, of Alexander. Mr. President: I move that articles two and three of the bill of rights be referred to the Committee on Revision and Adjustment. The motion was agreed to. [The following are the articles as referred to the Committee on Revision and Adj ustmeat.] ARTICLE II. The powers of the government of this State are divided into three distinct departmentsthe legislative, executive and judicial, and no person or collection of persons, being one of these departments, shall exercise any power properly belonging to either of the others, except as hereinafter expressly directed or permitted. The motion was agreed to. Mr. UNDERWOOD. M r. Presi dent: I now mo ve t he following amendment to sectiit n fifteen. The Secretary read the amendment offered by Mr. Underwood, as follows: Add, after the w ords "land own ers," the following: "Who s e lands are not taken for railroads." Mr. HAINES, of Lake. Mr. President: I do not un derstand the proposition. I would lik o he to have it explained. Air, UNDERWOOD. Mr. President: It is the same proposition as before, only it is limited to the provision that where land is taken ftor raithroads, they shall not deduct the benefits, if the adjoining lands are similarly benefited. It is in substance the law of 1852. Mr. CODY. Is this only applied to property taken by railroads? Air. UNDERWOOD. Yes, sir. Mr. HAINES, of Lake. Mr. President: I do not see the necessity of excepting railroads. If property is damaged, it is damaged whether by a railroad or any other corporation. ! The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The question is on the amendment offered by the gentleman from St, Clair [Mr. Underwood]. The amendment offered by Mr. Underwood was not agreed to. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The question is upon the section. Mr. ALLEN, of Alexander Mr. President: I ask to have the fifteenth section read. The Secretary read section fifteen, as follows: SEC. 15. Private property shall not be taken or damaged, for public use, without just compensatiol, nor shall deductions be made of benefits the owner receives, in common with adjacent land owners. Such compensation, when not made by the State, shall be ascertained by a jury, as shall be prescribed by law. The fee of land taken for railroad tracks, without consent of the owners thereof, shall remain in such owners, subject to the use for which it is taken. Mr. WALL. 31r. President: I understood that the amendment provided that no deduction should be made for benefits. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. No, it is confined to the case of railroad lands. The section, then, stands just as it did. The question is upon the section. A division was ordered. The Convention divided, when, there being twenty-seven in the affirmative, and thirteen in the negative — The PRESIDENT, pro tembpore. There is not a quorum voting. Mr. CAMERON. Mr. President: I call for the yeas and nays. M 3r. ALLEN, of Crawford. Mr. President: Is it in order to move to reconsider the amendment offered by the gentleman from St. Clair [Mr. Underwood]? The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The Convention was dividing upon the section. The Chair has permitted, on other occasions, motions at such time, but had come to the conclusion not to do so any more. 'Mr. ROSS. Mr. Presidenlt: Would it be in order to refer the section again to the committee? The PRESIDENT) pro tempore. It Mould. M~r. ALLEN, of Alexander. Mr. Pres-. ident: I appeal to the gentleman from St. Clair [Mr. Underwood] to withdraw his amendment. - ~~ARTICLE Ill. BILL OF RIGHTS. SECTION 1. All men are by nature free and independent, and have certain inherent and inalienable rights; among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. To secure these rights and the protection of property, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. SEca. 2. No person shall be deprived of life, liber ty or p roper ty without due pr oce ss o f law. SEC. 3. The free exercise a nd enjoyment of r eligious profession and worship, without discri mination, shal l fo rever be allowed in this State; and no person shall be den ied any civil or political right, privilege or capacity on account of his religious opinion s; but the liberty of conscience hereby secured shall not be so con str ued as to dispen se with oaths or affirmations, excuse acts of licentiousness, or justify practices inconsistent with the peace or safety of the State. Sac. 4. No person shall be compelle d to a ttend or support any ministry or place of worship against his consent, nor shall any preference be given by law to any religious denomination or mode of worship. The General Assembly shall provide the maunner in which persons who conscientiously observe the seventh day of the week as the Sabbath, may be exempted from answering to any civil process returnable on that day. SEC. 5. Every person may freely speak, write and publish his sentiments on all subjects, being responsible!or the abuse of that liberty, and in all trials for libel, both civil and criminal, the truth when published with good motives and for justifiable ends, shall be sufficient defense to the person charged. SEtC. 6. The right of trial by jury, as heretofore enjoyed, shall remain inviolate;but the General Assembly may authorize the trial of civil cases befbre justices of the peace by a jury of less than twelve men. SEC. 7. The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers and effects against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated; and no warrant shall issue without probable cause, supported by affidavit particularly describing the place to be searched and the persons or things to be seized. SEc. 8. All persons shall be bailable by sufficient sureties, unless for capital offenses, where the proof is evident or the presumption great; and the privilege of the writ of habeas corpus shall not besuspeuded, unless Allen ofAlx'n, Fuller, Parker, Allen of Crf'd, Haines of Cook,Springer, Anderson, Haines of L'k.,Tubbs, Archer,- Hankins, Underwood, Browning, Hay, Wait, Bryan, Hildrup, Whiting-20. Cummings, McCoy, ABSENT, OR NOT VOTING. So the motion of Mr. Ross to recommit section fifteen to the Committee on Bill of Rights, was agreed to. ORDER OF BUSINESS. Mr. ARCHER. Mr. President: I move to take up in Convention the report of the Committee of the Whole, on Future Amendments. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. That would not be in order, unless a provision were made in the motion, postponing further action on this article. Mr. ARCHER. Mr. President: I thought that this was disposed of. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The Convention has only recommitted section fifteen to the Committee on the Bill of Rights. Mr. ARCHER. Then I withdraw the motion. B3ILL OF RIlGHTS-AGAIN. Mr. ALLEN, of Alexander. Mr. President: The Committee oa the Bill of 1590 CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION SATURDAY) .Y]MAS. Goodell, Hart, Medill, Peirce, Foo,ge, Rosr,, Sedgwick, Sharp, Sherrill, NAY$. Benjamin, Buxton, Cameron, Cary, Church, Cody, Cross, Eldredge, Fox, Snyder, Tincher, Turtier, Vandeventer, Wagner, Wall, Washburn, Wilson-26. Abbott, Anthony, Atkins, Bayne, Bowinan, Bromwell, Brown, Coolbaugh, Craig, Denient, Ellis, Englisb, Forman, Gamble, Goodhue' Hanna, Harwood, Hayes, King, McDowell Merriam, Moore, Neece, Parks, Perley, Pillsbury, Rice, Robinson, Scholfie!d, Skinner, Sutherland, Truesdale, Wells, Wendling, Wheaton, Wright, Mr. President-37. APRIL 30, 1870. DEBATES AXI) 1'ROCEEDIGS. 151 when in cases of rebellion orinvasion the pub- The moti )nwas agteed to. hers shall he he same as that of members o The moti,on was agreed to. [The report of the committee is as follows]: ARTICLE —. AMENDMENTS TO THE CONSTITUTION. SECTION 1. Whenever two-thirds of the members in each branch of the General Assembly shall, by a vote entered upon the journals thereof, concur that a Convention is necessary to revise, alter or amend the Constitution, the question shall be submitted to the electors at the next general election. If a majority voting at the election, vote for a Convention, the General Assembly shall at the next session provide for a Convention, to consist of such number of members as then comprise the house of representatives, to be elected in the same manner, at the same places, and in the same districts. - Said Convention shall meet within three month3 after such election at the State capitol, and prepare such revision, alteration or amendments of the Constitution as shall be deemed necessary. Before proceeding, the members shall take an oath to support the Constitution of the United States, and of the State of Illinois, and to faithfully discharge their duties as members of the Convention. Provision for pay of members, and expenses of the Convention shall be made by the General Assembly in advance. The qualification of members shall be the same as that of members of the house of representatives, and vacancies occurring shall be filled, in the manner of filling vacancies in the General Assembly. The revision, alterations, or amendments as aforesaid, shall be submitted to the electors for ther ratification or rejection at an election appointed by the Convention for that purpose, not less than two nor more than six months after their adjournment thereof; and unless so submitted and approved by the electors, no such revision, alterations, or amendmaents shall take effect. SEC. 2. Any amendments to this Constitution may be proposed in either house of the General Assembly, and if the same shall be voted for by two-thirds of all the members elected to each of the two houses, such proposed amendments, together with the yeas and nays of each house thereon, shall be entered in full on their respective journals, and said amendments shall be submitted to the electors of this State for adoption or rejection, at the next election of members of the General Assembly, in such manner as may be prescribed by law. The proposed amendments shall be published in full at least three months preceding the election and if a majority of the electors voting at said election shall vote for the proposed amendments, they shall become a part of this Constitution. But the General Assembly shall have no power to propose amendments to more than one article of this Constitution at the same session, nor to the same article oftener than once in four years. [Substitute for s e c ti on oAne, offered by Mr. Medill:] when in cases of rebellion or invasion the p.blic safety mnay require it. SEc. 9. No person shall be held to answer for a criminal offense, unless on an indictment of a grand jury, except in cases of petit larceny and offenses less than felony, in which the punishment is by fine or imprisonment otherwise than in the penitentiary; in cases of impeachment, and in cases arising in the army and navy, or in the militia when in actual s ervice in time of war or public danger. Provi ded, that the General Assembly may provide for the abolition of the Grand Jury in all cases. SEC. 10. In all criminal prosecutions the accused shall be allowed to appear and defend in person and with counsel; to demand the nature and cause of the accusation against him, and to have a copy thereof; to meet the witnesses face to face, and to have compulsory process to procure the attendance of witnesses in his behalf, and a speedy public trial by an impartial jury of the county or district in which the offense is alleged to have been committed. SEa. 11. No person shall be compelled in any criminal case to give evidence against himself, or be twice put in jeopardy for the samie offense. SEC. 12. All penalties shall be proportioned to the nature of the offense. SEC. 13. No conviction shall work corruption of blood or forfeiture of estate; nor shall any person be transported out of this State for ny offense committed within the same. SEe. 14. No person shall be imprisoned for debt, unless upon refusal to deliver up his estate ior the benefit of his creditors, in such manner as shall be prescribed by law, or in cases where there is strong presumption of fraud. SEC. 15. Private property shall not be taken or damaged for public use without just compensation. Such compensation, when not made by the State, shall be ascertained by a jury, as shall be prescribed by law. The fee of land taken for railroad tracks, without consent of the owners thereof, shall remain in such owners, subject to the use for which it is taken. SEC. 16. The General Assembly shall not pass any ex post facto law, or law impairing the obligation of contracts, nor make any irrevocable grant of special privileges or im. ranities. SEC. 17. The military shall be in strict subordination to the civil power. SEC. 18. No soldier shall, in time of peace, be quartered in any house, without the consent of tile owner; nor in time of war, except in the manner prescribed by law. F SEC. 19. The people have the right to assemble together in a peaceable manner, to consult for the common good, to make known their opinions to their representatives, and to apply for redress of grievances. SEC. 20. All elections shall be free and equal. SEC. 21. Every person within this State ought to find a certain remedy in the laws, for all injuries or wrongs which he may receive in hlis person, property or character. He ought to obtain right and justice freely, and without being obliged to purchase it;* completely and without denial; p~romptly and without delay, comformably to the laws. SEC. 22. A frequent recurrence to the fundamental principles of civil government is absolutely necessary to preserve the blessings of liberty. SEC. 23. Laws may be passed permitting the owners or occupants of lands to construct drains and ditches, for agricultural-and sanitary purposes, across the lands of others. FUTUREn AMENqDMENqTS. Mr. ARCHER. Mr. President-: I now move that the report of the Committee of the Whole on future amendments be taken up. The PRESIDENT, pro et, spre. The Chair is informed that th'ere are other repor ts al-ready set down for this day. It would be in order to postpone such special orders, ho~wever. Mr. TURNER. Si[r. President: I move that all other special orders be postponed, for the purpose of taking up the report of the Committee of the Whole on future amendments. ARTICLE-. AMENDMENTS TO THE CONSTITUTION. SECTION 1. Whenever two-thirds of the members in each branch of the General Assembly shall, by a vote entered upon the journals thereof, concur that a Convention is iecessary to revise, alter or amend the Constitution, the question shall be submitted to the electors, at the next general election. If a majority voting at the election vote for a Convention, the General Assembly shall, at the next session, provide for a Convention, to consist of double the number of members of the senate, to be elected in the same manner, at the same places, and in the same districts. Said Convention shall meet within three months aft er such election, and prepare such revision, alteration or amendments of the Constitution as shall be deemed necessary. The General Assembly shall, in the act calling the Convention, designate the day, hou r and place of its meeting, fix the pay of its members and officers and shall provide for the payment of the same, together with the expenses necessarily incurred by the Convention in the performance of its duties. Before proceeding, the members shall take an oath to support the Constitution of the United States, and of the State of Illinois, and to faithfully discharge their duties as members of the Convention. The qualification of mem bers shall be sm a the same as that o f me mber s of the senate, and vacancies occurring shall be filled in the manner of filling vacancies in the General Assembly. The revision, alterations, or amendments, as aforesaid, shall be submitted to the electors for their ratification or rejection, at an election appointed by the Convention for that purpose, not less than two, or more than six months after their adjournmen-t thereof; and unless so submitted and approved by the electors, no such revision, alterations or amendments, shall take effect. Mr. ARCHER. I move the report be considered by sections. The PRESIDENT, pro tempor-e. That will be considered the order, unless objection be made. The first section will be iu order. The Secretary read section one, as follows: SEC 1. Whenever two thirds of the members in each branch of the General Assembly shall by a vote entered upon the journals thereof, concur that a Convention is necessary to revise, alter or amend the Constitution, the question shall be submitted to the electors at the next general election. If a majority voting at t,he election vote for a C'onvention, the General Assemblv shall, at the next session, provide for a Convention, to consist of such number of members as then comprises the house of representatives, to be elected in the same manner, at the same places and in the same districts. Said Conven tion shall meet within three months after such election at the State capitol, and prepare such revision, alteration or amendments of the Constituition as shall be deemed necessary. Before proceeding, the members shall take an oath to support the Constitution of the United States and of the State of Illinois, and to faithfully discharge their duties as members of the Convention. Provision for pay of members and expenses of the Convention shall be made by the General Assembly in advance. The qualification of members shall be the same as that of members of the houso of representatives, and vacancies occurring shall be tilled inthe manner of filling vacancies in the General Assembly. The revision, alterations or aanendments, as aforesaid, shall be submitted to the electors for their ratification or rejection at an election appointed by the Convention for that purpose, not less than two nor more than six months after their adjournment thereof; and unless so submitted and approved by the electors, no such revision, alterations or amendments shall take effect. Mr. ARCHER. I offer the following as a substitute. Mr. HAINES, of Cook. Is there not a substitute pending? The PRESIDENT, pro tem,pore. Since when? Mr. HAINES, of Cook. The time this was brought up. Here it is, in print. ,A: Mr. ARCHER. Then I dofer this as an amendment to the substitute. The Secretary read the amendment offe~red by M~r. Archer, as follows: SEC. —. Whenever two-thirds of all the members elected to each branch of the Gener al Assembly, shall think it necessary to call a Convention to alter or amend this Constitution, they shall recommend to the electors at the next election of members of the General Assembly to vote for or against such Convention, and if it shall appear that a ma. jority of all the electors of this State voting at said election have voted for such Convention, the General Assembly shall at their next session call a Convention for the purpose aforesaid, to consist'of as many mtemubers as the house of representatives shall have at the time of making said call, to be chosen in the same manner, at the same places, and by the same electors, in the samue districts that choose the members of the house of represenltatives, and which Convention shall meet within three months after said election for the purpose of revising, altering or amending this Constitution; and all alterations and amendments m&&e by said Convention shall be submitted to ~the people for adoption or rejection in such mannler as the Convention mna~ Turaari ha_ APP.IL 30, 1870. DEBATES AN-D PROCEEDliNGS. 1591 f 1592 COSTITUTIOAL COYEXTJOX SATURDAY, senate, which will make a Convention of fifty-one members. We all know that this Convention has probably occupied one third more time than it woul d if its number had been less instead of more. Mr. TURNER. Mr. President: I hope . the amendment proposed by the gentle man from Clinton [Mr. Buxton] to the substitute, will prevail. I had prepared a similar amendment myself. If it were not for the provision in the substitute, that the Constitution that may be pre pared by the next Convention, shall be submitted to the people and ratified by them, before taking effect, I might favor a larger number of members. But inas much as the Constitution eannot take |effect until the people have passed upon it, a smaller body will be less expensive, and in every respect better than a large body. I say if it were not for that provi sion, I should be for a larger representa tion. I believe if gentlemen upon the floor will express their honest convic tioms, they will say that this Convention is too large. It need not be argued that the number named in the amendment will be a small Convention, since whatever that body may do must go before the people, and be ratified by them before going into effect, and I hope the amendment will prevail. I do not ask the gentleman from Cook [lir. Medill] to accept the amend menut. I shall support his substitute, if the amendment should not be adopted. But I do not think the body would be too small. I hope the amendment will pre vail. Mr. HAINES, of Lake. Mr. President: I fail to see the force of the argument of the gentleman. It seems to me that an organic law, made, as we understand, by the voice of the people, should be framed by rcpre. sentatives coming directly from the peo. ple, and not, in any degree, removed from them, either in regard to influences, association or the manner of their election. If a large body of men is called for, for any purpose, it is for the purpose of conlsidering amendments or modifications to the organic law, which is supposed to be the direct voice of the people. The Constitution of 1848 was prepared by one hundred and sixty-two members, if I recollect right. Their deliberations lasted somewhere less than three months, and they prepared a Constitution which was adopted by the people, and has met with great favor from that time to the present. :No one has complained that that body was too large, an~d the argument, that simply because represenltativres are chosen ill a small district, they will misrepresent the people, or will be less comspetent, does not strike me with great force. The people of Illinois all possess talent. They are an en)lightened peonle, throughlout the len,gth and breadth of the State. There is not a mlan who has a voice in~ the government, but who, if called upon, could not take part in its administration. I do not think of anly man I represenlt in the small district I come from,le~s ss capat~tble than my self —petrhaps nonte wvho would not have done better. Why, in the free, governments of the olden timne, thle people met themselves and made their laws —they endured for ages upon just that system of governmtent, la?Jd do we complain, to-day, that the poe]people themselves are incapable of admin. islering the government v t substantially the provision in the present Constitution of the State, and the matters embraced in the section for which this is offered as a subs titute are the ques tions of the oath to be taken by memb er s of future Conventi ons, qualifications which such members shall have and the mode of filling vacancies as they occur in future Conventions. Every one of these questions has been fully and elaborately discussed here. The question of the oath came up upon the assembling of the Convention as well as the question of qualification, and both were discussed day after day for a period of a week, perhaps, or longer. The question as to the mode of filling vacancies, has been discussed in the Convention upon the occasion of the death of several members and the resignation of one, And, as I believe the sense of the Convention, and of all its members, has been fully tested upon all these questions, for the purpose of saving time and coming to a vote upon this report at once, I now move the previous question. The motion for the previous question was agreed to, and the main question ordered. The Secretary re id the amendment offered by Mr. Archer, as follows: ARTICLE -. AMENDMENTS TO THE CONSTITUTION. SEC. -. Whenever two-thirds of all the members elected to each branch of the General Assembly shall think it necessary to call a Convention to alter or amend this Constitution, they shall recommend to the electors at the next election of members of the General Assembly to vote for or against such Convention; and if it shall appear that a majority of all the electors of this State voting at said election, have voted for such Convention, the General Assembly shall, at their next session, call a Convention for the purpose aforesaid, to consist of as many members as the house of representatives shall have at the time of making said call, to be chosen in the same' manner, at the same places, and by the same electors, in the same districts that chose the members of the house of representatives, and which Convention shall meet within three months after said election, for the purpose of revising, altering or amending this Constitution, and all alterations and amendments made by said Convention shall be submitted to the people Jor adoption or rejection, in such manner as the Convention may prescribe. Mr. ARCHER. Mr. President: I call for the yeas and nays. The yeas and nays were ordered; and beitng taken, resulted —yeas, 16, nays, 26 — as follows: Brown, McDowell, Wall, Coolbaugh, Merriam, Wells, Craig, Moore Wendling, Dement, Neece, Wheaton, Eldredge, Perley, Wright, Ellis, Parks, Mr. President-41l. English, Pillsbury, So the amendment offered by Mr Archer, was not agreed to. The PRESIDENT, pro temporo. The question will be on the substitute of the gentleman from Cook [Ir. Medill.] Mr. MEDILL. Before a vote is taken on the adoption of the substitute, I wish to state briefly the difference between it and the report of the Committee on Fu ture Amendments. It differs in two particulars only. First, it provides that the Convention shall consist of double the number of members of the senate, instead of a num ber equal to the house of representatives. In other words, under the new Constitution, it would provide or a Convention of one hundred and two members, while the report of the Committee on Future Amendments will provide for a Constitutional Convention of one hundred and eighty to two hundred members. I thoight, at the time I prepared the substitute that a constitutional body of two hundred members wasaltogether too large for grave considerations of the kind required of a Constitutional Convention, and would consume too much time. Another objection was that the members would be elected, many of them, from too small districts. In electing delegates from senatorial districts, we give the people an opportunity to select from a larger territory and population Each senatorial district will consist of 50,000 or 60,000 inhabitants, while the house disttict may consist of but 10,000 or 12,000. Men of more ability, of better qualifications for the very important duties of revising the Constitution, could, I think, be obtained from the larger than from the smaller districts. I believe the experience of this Convention has demoonistrated that a deliberative body larger than this by twenty would be al)undanttly large enough, and that a Convention three times as large would make a very noisy, weak and inefficient body. In my judgment, it would be altogether too large for wise, mature action on constitutional questions. This, however, is a matter for each member of the Convention to consider for himself. In the second place, the substitute provides a little more specifically than the committee's report in regard to the duties of the Le~gislature in the premises. It provides that-i The General Assembly shall, in the act callin g the Convention, designate the day, hour and place of its meeting, fix the pay of its Smembers and officers, and shall provide for the payment of the same, together with the expenses necessarily incurred by the Convention in the perlormanee of its duties. These are the only material differences between the substitute and the original report. I will not consume the time of the Con,vention in arguing the matter. Mr. BUXTON. Mr. President: This substitute pleases me in every particular, except one, and that is the number that it requires for the Convention. The num ber under the present apportionment would be one hundred and two. I move to strike out the word "double" a in the sixth line, so that the number sha'll be equal to the number of members in the' NAYS. Benjamin, Haines of Lake,Sedgwick, Cary, Hart, Sherrill, Chur-ch, Hay, Springer, C ross, Hildrup, Tincher, Cummings, Medill, Tubbs, Fuller, Parker, Underwood, Gamnble, Peirce,' Wagner, Goodell, Poage, Whiting-26. Haines of Co'k,Ross, ABSENT, OR NOT VOTING. Abbott, Forman, Rice, Allen of Alex,Goodhue, Robinson, Anthony, Hanna, Scholfi,ld, Atkins, Harwood, Skinner, Bayne, Hayes, Sutherl and, Bowman, Kin,, Truesdale, Bromwell, McCoy, wait, CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION 1592 SATURDAY) Mr. ARCHER. That amendment i YEA.S. Allen of Cr'fd,Cameron, Auderson, Cody, 'Archer, Fox, Browning, Hankii3s, Bryan, Sharp, Buxton, Snyder, Tirner', Vandev'enter, Washburn, Wilson-i6. API 30 180 EAE X PO)EIG.19 have good laws, although these laws may be changed every session; that it is necessary to have a large number, in order to secure the rights and liberties of the people. Yet, when we come to framing the fundamental law, we are told that such representation is not necessary-that a few distinguished persons Mr. BUXTON. This article proposes that no amendments proposed by a Constitutional Convention shall go into effect until referred to and confirmed by the lower house, or rather the upper housethe people themselves. Mr. SPRINGER. Mr. President: We provide that the General Assembly shall enact laws, and that they shall be subject to the approval of the Governor. The Governor is the representative of the people, and we give him a veto power. It requires a two-thirds vote of the Legislature to overcome that-so careful are we to secure the liberties of the people. When it is necessary to frame a fundamental law, we are told that fifty one men are more safe, and therefore more reliable, than one hundred anid fifty-three m en, the number which constitutes the house of representatives. I do not see the necessity of the change. If Conventions are good for the purpose of revising the fundamental law, give the people an opportunity to revise it with a numerous representation. If Conventions are not necessary, and our number is too great and too expensive, the facts will only discourage the calling of Conventions. I believe the General Assembly will be safe in proposing future amendments. We have made the number of the Legislature so large that they will represent the people better than a Convention of a hundred and two members, as proposed by the substitute, and would be a less dangerous body. They may submit amendments to the Constitution with less cost and with less delay than could be done by a Convention. The substitute does not provide how the two members from each district shall be elected. I suppose it will virtually require an act of the General Assembly to district the State, in order to execute the provisions of the proposed substitute. The only difference between the substitute and the section, is that it requires the General Assembly to fix the hour for the meeting of the Convention, and that the number of representatives shall be double the number of the senate. If we think it is not safe or best that the people shall be fully represented in a Convention to amend the fundamental law, I think it would be better to adopt some other plan. If fifty will do, to save expense to the State, why not say twenty-five? If we are for economy, and if it is only necessary that a few learned men should be selected from different parts of the State, why not say that future Conventions shall consist of twenty-five members, and let them be appointed by the Governor? Certainly he is as competent to select twenty-five, or even fifty men, to amend the Constitution, as the people would be at the ballot-box-if the principle of popular representation is to be ignored. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The question is on the amendment of the gentleman from Clinton [Mr. Buxton], to strike out the word "double," in the sixth line. p 'fd.,Fo Rx, Gamble, Hay, Peirce, Ross, Snyder, NAYS. Haines of C'k, Haines of L'k, Hankins, Hart, Ilildrup, McDowell, Medill, Parker, Poage, Anders on, Archer, Bryan, Church, Cody, Cross, Cummings, Fuller, Goodell, The argument against a large number of representatives is not good. The house pr opo sed by th e gentleman from Cook [Mr. Medill], is a large number; and he has argued that a house of representatives should be composed of a large num ber. If the house of representatives c an legislate for the advantage of the people with two hundred members, and the senate with fifty-one, taking charge of the public revenue, public improvements, and every other interest of the people, they certainly can pass upon the matter of amendments to the Constitution, and know better the wants of the people than a less number. Mr. MEDILL. Mr. President: The gentleman is mistaken in saying I have advocated a large house or senate on this floor. I have argued against a large house, both in committee and in Convention, and held that the house we have provided for is too large. I voted against increasing it, and voted to diminish it. I think one hundred would make it a better house, and thirty-three senators a better senate than fifty-one,-and so mentioned in the committee. Mr. HAINES, of Lake. I certainly understood the gentleman as I have stated. I understood him to be in favor of a large house of representatives,of fiftyone senators, and strongly in favor of the floater system, that necessarily included so many members. Mr. MEDILL. That was for equalizing representation and would apply on anything. Mr. HAINES, of Lake. The gentleman urged that something should be done to avoid the evils of apportionment, and that nothing could be done except to have a large number of representatives, elected by counties. The principle upon which he set out, necessarily made a large number, and could not be carried out with a small one. That is all I have to say in regard to number. The people will not be misrepresented by a large number of members. In regard to fixing the day, hour and moment when the Convention are to meet, I do not consider that absolutely necessary. If the General Assembly get jurisdiction for one purpose, they get it for all purposes. I think the section had better be as concise and brief as possible, so as not to have too much left for construction, after we have provided all that is really necessary. Mr. WA SHBURN. Mr. Presid-en:. I think it is hardly worth while to spend time over this subject of calling another Convention to frame an organic law. I do not believe the people of Illinois contemplate ever calling another Constitutional Convenltion. T. therefore, move the previous question. Mr. BROWNING. Mr. President: The gentleman from Pike [Mr. Archer] withdrew the call to enable me to move an amendment, after the vote on the pending amendment. Mr. WASHBURN. I withdraw my motion. Mr. SPRINGER. Mr. President: A word in regard in the difference that is spoken of here, and the consistency of gentlemen. We say two hundred and four men shall be required to make the laws of the State, that it is necessary for the people to be represented, in order that we ma 399 ABSENT OR NOT'OTING. Abbott, English, Pillsbury, Allen of Alex..Forman,. Rice, Anthony, Goodhue, Robinson, Atkins, Mannia, Scholfield, Bayne, Harwood, Skinner, Bowman, Hayes, Sutherland, Bromwell, King, Truesdale, Brown, McCoy, Wall, Coolbaugh, Merriam, Wells, Craig, Moore, Wendling, Dement, Neece, Wheaton, Eldredge, Parks, Wright Ellis, Perley, Mr. President-39. So the amendment offered by Mr. Buxton was not agreed to. Mr. BROWNING. Mr. President: I wish to offer an amendment to the substitute, and will not occupy the attention of the Convention more than two or three minutes in so doing. There is a provision common to the report of the comvamittee an d the substitute, which I think we ought not to adopt, and I move to amend the substitute by striking that provision out. The vote upon that will be a sufficient indication of the wishes of the Convention in regard to it, so that it will not be necessary to pursue it further, if it shall be voted down. I move to strike out all after the word "Convention," in the fifteenth line, reacing as follows: The qualification of members shall be the same as that of members of the senate, and vacancies occuring, shall be filled in the manner of filling vacancies in the General Assembly. The revision, alterations, or amendments as aforesaid shall be submitted to the electors for their ratification or rejection, at an election appointed by the Convention for that purpose, not less than two nor more than six months after their adjournment thereof; and unless so submitted and approved by the electors, no such revision, alterations or amendments, shall take effect. I believe that all statesmen and publicists agree that one generation cannot bind or limit the sovereign power of a succeeding generation, and that the people of this country, fifty years hence, if they preserve their liberties, will be as sovereign as we are to-day. In this provision, we attempt to impose limitations in several particulars. Limitations and sovereignty are incompatible. They cannot exist together. Where limitation begins, sovereignty ceases. We attempt, in the first place, to limit the people in their choice of delegates. Now, Mr. President, if the people were to meet en masse, to form a Constitution, every elector in the- State would have a right to take a seat in such Convention, and participate in its proceedings. Each person who would have a right to a seat A]PRIL 30, -.11870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1593 The yeas and iiays were ordered, aD,d beidg taken, resulted-yeas 18, nays 26 -as follows: YEAS. Tincher, Turner, Underwood, Vandeventer, Wagner, Washburn-19. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTiONT in a Convention composed of the whole people, would be equally eligible to represe unt such portions of the people as might choos e to delega te their auth ority to him in a repre sen ta tive Convention. In other words, every elector who has t he right t o v ot e fo r a de legate to a Con vention, or to vote for or against a Con tsthitution wh en it shall have beenk submit ted, is eligible as a delegate to a Convenr tion for the purpose of framing a Consti tution. Every elector has the same right to part icipat e in the making or amend ing r)f a Constitution that every other elector has. an d one elect or has just the samle right with every other to become a delegate to a Convention, providing that t he sovereign people who are selecting delegates to a Convention, choose to de volve the ir auth ority up on i.hi. We attempt again, sir, to limit t hem in th e m anner of the adoption of a Constitution. How do w e know that fifty years h ence, when the sovereign people, as sov ereign as we are, come to amend their Constitution, or to submit a new one for it, they will n ot p refer to have it made and d eclared by those to whom they delega te their authority, instead of requiring it to be submitted to them to be passed upon after it has received the sanction of th e C onv ention? We have no authority to impose limitations. They will have precisely the same right to govern in th at matter then, that we have to govern in that ma tte r t o-day; a nd it is very possi ble that reasons may exist why the sove reign pe ople will choos e to adopt the other mode. Hence no limitation sh ould be attempted in the Constitution which -we now make. Now, if we can impose one limitation upon those who are to come after us, by the same authority we can impose another and another, and we may thus limit their sovereignty to any extent whatever; that is, we may take away from them the sovereign powers which we claim to possess, and which we exercise for ourselves. Now, sir, suppose we should propose to engraft into this Constitution a provision to the effect that no amendments, alterations or changes should be made in the Constitution which we adopt for twenty or for fifty years. Would we, have any power to do so? We would have precisely the some power, neither more nor less, that we have to impose the limitations which we have attempted —and neither of them~ will be of any binding force. The people, in the exercise of their sovereignty, may disregard them all. Now, sir, I am satisfied that any gentleman who will consult the writings of statesmen and publicists upon this subject, will find that, without exception, the greatest and ablest of them —those capable of enlightening their fellow-citizens in the science of government, concur ill the statement that one generation can impose no limitations, whatever, upon the sovereign power of their successors. -Indeed, Mr. Jefferson went so far with his philosophy of government as to maintain, I believe, that constitutions necessarily expired with the generations that made them —that each succeeding generation had the inalienable right to formn and declare its own government for itself, and that'it could not be bolund to submit to an existing Constitution, Without carrying my own views to that extent, I do carry them to the just and true extent of maintaining that we have no power or authority, no right whatever, to impose any limitation of any kind or character, upon the sovereignty of the people who may succeed us. It is a totally different thing, Mr. President, from the question of the right to bind ourselves, and all who may come after us, by the provisions of the Constitution, as long as it exists. The question here is whether, when the people resume agai n the sovereign power, when the tim e comes that they in their wisdom, determine that it is expedient to change or abolish their Constitution, we can bind and limit them in the exercise of their sovereignty in performance of tha t a ct? As long as the Constitution exists every body is bound by it. So long a s the la w exists everybody is bound by that, but when in the exercise of sovereign power the people undertake to make a new Constitution, they are abov e and beyond all restraint and all limitation that can be imposed. Mr. CHURCH. I do not desire to argue, but merely to say, that having an organized State government which provides that it may be changed by its own provisions, we propose to hold on to that and work under it. I move the previous question on the amendment. T The motion for the previous question was agreed to, and the main question was ordered. The yeas and nays were ordered, and being taken, resulted-yeas, 14, nays, 31 -as follows: Constitution, the question shall be submitted to the electors at the next general election. If a majority voting at the election vote for a Convention, the General Assembly shall, at the next session, provide for a Convention, to consist of double the number of members of the Senate, to be elected in the same manner, at the same places and in the same districts. Said Convention shall meet within three months after such election, and prepare such revision, alteration or amendment s of t he Constitution as shall be deemed necessary. The General Assembly shall, in the act calliDg the Convention, designate the day, hour and place of its meeting, fix the pay of its members and officers, and shall provide for the payment of the same, together with the expenses necessarily incurred by the Convention in the performance of its duties. Before proceeding, the members shall take an oath to wupport the Constitution of th e United States, and of the State of Illinois, and to faithfully discharge their duties as members of the Convention. The qualification of members shall be the same as that of members of the Senate, and vacancies occurring shall be filled in the manner of filling vacancies in the General Assembly. The revision, alterations, or amendments as aforesaid, shall be submitted to the electors for their ratification or rejection, at an election appointed by the Contion for that purpose, not less than two nor more than six months after their adjournment thereof; and unless so submitted and approved by the electors, no such revision, alterations or amendments shall take effect. Mr. ARCHER. Mr. President: I call for the yeas and nays. The yeas and nays were ordered. The Secretary proceeded to call the roll. Mr. TINCHER (when his name was called) said: Having, Mr. President, aided the gentleman from Cook [Mr. Medill] to fix up the hour at which we should meet, not wishing to go back on the amendment, I vote "Aye." The result was then announced-yeas, 25, nays 17-as foliows: Allen, of Crfd.,Cross, Peirce, Anderson, Gamble, Ross, Benjamin, Goodell,. Sherrill, Browning, Haines ofCook,'Tincher, Buxton, Hart, Turner, Cameron, Hay, Underwood, Car y, MPedill, Vandeventer, Church, Parker, Wagner-25. Cody, NAYS. Goodell, Ross, Haines of CookSedgwick, Haines of LakeSherrill, Hart, Springer, Hay, Tincher, Hildrup, Tubbs, Medill, Under wood, Parker, Wagner, Peirce, Wait, Poage, Washburn-31. Abbott, Fox, Rice, Allen, of Alx.,Fuller Robinson, Anthony, Goodhue, Scholfield, Atkins, Hanna, Skinner, Bayne, Harwood, Sutherland, Bowman, Hayes, Truesdale, B rown, K in g, Wall Bryan, McCoy, Wells, Coolbaugh, Merriam, Wendling, Craig, Moore, Wheaton, Dement, Neece, Wilson, Ellis, Parks, Wright, English, Perley, Mr. President-41. Forman, Pillsbury, The substitute offered by Mr. Medill was declared agreed to. Mr. HAINES, of Cook. There is no quorum voting. The PRESIDENT, pro ternpore. The Chair is under the impression that the number voting, forty-two, which is a majority of this Convention since the death of several members, is a quorum. Mr. HAINES, of Cook. If the Chair decides that there is a quorum present, I appeal from that decision. Abbott, Goodhue, Allen of Alx'n,Hanna, Anthony, Harwood, Atkins, Hayes, Bayne, King, Bowman, McCoy, Brown, Merriam, Coolbaugh, Moore, Craig, Neece Dement, Parks: Eldredge, Perley, English, Pillsbury, Forman, Rice, / So the amendment offered by Mr. Browning was not agreed to. The PRE'qIDENT, pro tempore. The question is upon the adoption of the substitute proposed by the gentleman from Cook [Mr. Medill]. The Secretary read the substitute offered by Mr. Medill, as follows: ARTICLE9 —. AMENDMENTS TO THE CONSTITUTION. SICTION 1. Whenever two-thirds of the members in each branch of the General Assembly shall, by a vote entered upon the journals thereof, concur that a Convention is necessary to revise, alter or amend the 159-1 SATURDAY) YEAS. Allen, of Crw'dFox, Anderson, Gamble, Archer, Hankins, Browning, McDowell, Cummilags, Sharp, Snyder, Tdruer,' Vandeventer, Whiting-14. .YEAS. Be-njamin, Bromwell, Bryan, Buxton, Cameron, Cary, Chtifch, Cody,' Cross, Ellis, Fuller, WAYS. Archer, Hildrup, Bromwell, McDowell, Cummings, Poage, F,Idredge, Sedgwick, Haines of Llk, Sharp, Hankins, Snyder, A.BSENT, OR NOT VO Springer, Tubbs, Wait, Washburn, Whiting-17. A.BSENT, OR NOT VOTING. Robinson, Scholfield, Skinner, I Sutherland, Truesdale, Wall, Wells, Wendling, Wheaton, Wilson, Wright, Mr. President-38. p DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The question is on the adoption of the section. Mr. CUMIMINGS. Mr. President: I move to strike out the word "one," in the seventh line. Mr. HAY. I favor the amendment last proposed, if with that we couple a further provision; and I would not care if the amendment covered any number of amendments to be submitted at the same time, if coupled with the safeguards which I propose. The objections that have been urged against the submission of two or more propositions together, and which have force, to my mind, arise mainly out of the consideration that two or more logrolliug propositions might be brought in-n to the Legislature together, and submitted in such a maniner as to combine the vote upon those propositions, and make them practically inseparable. Now, if we can so provide that two or more propositions may be submitted, and yet require their submission s eparately- require them to be so framed as to cover but one subject matter, and be submitted separatel -I would have no objection to the proposition covering amendments to two or more articles at the same time, and I have prepared this amendment to the proposition-if it is decided that an increased number of amendments may be proposed: But such amendments shall be submitted so as to be voted upon separately, and shall be so framned as to cover but one subject matter in each amendment. Mr. ARCHER. I move to lay the amendments upon the table. The yeas and nays were ordered, and being taken, resulted-yeas, 35, nays, 9 -as follows: T he questio n being — Shall the decision of the Chair be sastained as the judgment of the Convention?" The decision of the Chair was sustained. So the substitute offered by Mr. Medill was agreed to. Mr. HAINES, of Cook. Mr. President: I give notice that I will, on Mlonday, enter a protest against the ruling of the Chair. Mr. CAMERON. Mr. President: I call attention to the fact that forty-two members voted, which number, adding one for the gentleman who occupies the Chair, clearly makes a quorum, or majority of all the Convention, under any view. But as two members are dead, forty-two would be a quorum of the Convention now. ARTICLE -. AMENDMENTS TO THE CONSTITUTION. SECTION 1. Wheneve r t wo-thirds of the members in each branch of the General Assembly shall, by a vote ent ered upon the journals thereof, concur that a Convention is necessary to revise, alter or amend the Constitution, the question shall be submitted to the electors at the next ge nera ele ction. If a majority voting at the election vote for a Convewation, the General Assem bly shall, at the next s e ss ition, provide for convention, to consist of double the number of members of the senate, to be elected in the same manner, at the same places and in the same districts. Said Convention shall meet within three months after such election, and prepare such revision, alterations o r amendm ents o f the Constitution as shall be deemed necessary. The General Assembly shall, in the a ct calling the Convention, designate the day, hour and place of its meeting, fix the pay of its members and officers, and shall provide for the payment of the same, together with the expenses necessarily incurred by the Convention in the performance of its duties. Before proceeding, the members shall take an oath to support the Constitution of the United States and of the State of Illinois, and to faithfully discharge their duties as members of the Convention. The qualification of members shall be the same as that of members of the senate, and vacancies occurring shall be filled in the manner offilling vacancies in the General Assembly. The revision, alterations or amendments, as aforesaid, shall be submitted to the electors, for their ratification or rejection, at an election appointed by the Contention for that purpose, not less than two nor more than six months after their adjournment thereof; and unless so submitted and approved by the electors, no such revision, alterations or amendments shall take effect. SEc. 2. Any amendments to this Constitution may be proposed in either house of the General Assembly; and if the same shall be voted for by two-thirds of all the members elected to each of the two houses, such proposed Amendments, together with the yeas and nays of each house thereon, shall be entered in full on their respective journals; and said amendments shall be submitted to the electors of this State, for adoption or rejection, at the next election of members of the. General Assembly, in such manner as may be prescribed by law. The proposed amendments shall be published in full at least three months preceding the election; and if a majority of the electors voting at said election shall vote for the proposed amendments, they shall become a part of this Constitution. But the General Assembly shall have no power to propose amendments to more than one article of this Constitution at the same session, nor to the same article oftener than once in four years. SEC. 2. Any amendments to this Constitution may be proposed in either house of the Ge neral Assembly, and if the same shall be voted Ifor by two-thirds of all the members elected to each of the two houses, such proposed amendme nts, together with the yeas and nays of each hous e there o n, shall be ent ered in, full on their respective journals, and s aid amendments shall be submit ted to the electors o f this State for adoption or rejection at the next election of me mber s of th e G e neral Assembly, in such manner as may be prescribed by law. The proposed amendments shall be published in full at least three months preceding the election, and if a majority of the electors voting at said election shall vote for the proposed amendments, they shall become a part of this Constitution. But the General Asszembly shall have no power to propose amendments to more than one article of this Constitution at the same session, nor to the same article oftener than once in four years. Mr. WHITING. Mr. President: I move to strike out all after the word "lbut," in the tenth line. In making this motion, I would call attention to the fact that it contains provisions which, so far as I have been able to learn, exist in no Constitution in the United States,except the present one of the State of Illinois. So far as I have been able to examine, there is no such provision in any other State Constitution in the country. I will call attention to the Constitutions of the following States, and their provisions: New York, Indiana, Iowa, Maryland, Michigan, Minnesota, Missouri, Nevada, New Jersev, Ohio, Oregon, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, Wisconsin and Connecticut contain no restriction as to the number of amendments which may be submitted at one time. It is true, most of these States require the approval, of submission, by two successive Legislatures, out such approval'by a majority only, while we require a two-thirds vote. It seems to me, Mr. President, that there is a popular sentiment demanding that we make the organic law reasonably easy of amendment, and as there are only to be biennial sessions of the Legislature, will it not be a wiser - course to leave the alteration of the Constitution, as to the number of amendments that shall be pro posed at any one time, to the discretign of the Legislature? The queition being on the amendment offered by-_Ir. Whiting, it was not agreed to. YEAS. Allen, of Cr'fd,Gamble, Sherrill, Anderson, Goodell, Snyder, Archer, Haines of Cook,Springer, Benjamin, Haines of Lake,Tinclher, Browning, Hankins, Tubbs, Bryan, Hart, Turner, Cameron, Hildrup, Underwood, Cary, McDowell, Vandeventer, Church, Peirce, Wagner, Cody, Poage, Wait, Cro ss, Sedgwick, Washburn-35. Fuller, Sharp, ABSENT, OR NO Abbott, Fox, Allen of Alex, Goodhue, Anthony, - Hanna, Atkins, Harwood, Bayne, Hayes, Bowman, King, Brown, McCoy, Coolbaugh, Mer r i am, Craig, Moore, Dement, Neece, Ellis, Parks, English, Perley, Forman, Pillsbury, ELECTORAL AND REPRESENTATIVfE RE FORM. Mr. MEDILL. Mr. President: I wish to have the article on electoral and representative reform made the special order for Thursday, the fifth day of May, which is after the dates fixed for all the other special orders. The motion was agreed to. So the motion of Mr. Archer to lay on the table the amendments offered by Mr. Whiting and MIr. Hay was agreed to. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The question is upon the adoption of the section. Mr. ARCHER. Mr. President: I call for the previous question. The motion for the previous question was agreed to, and the main question ordered. ADJOURNM1ENT, Mr. TINCIHER I move that the Convention do now adjourn. Mr. BUXTON. Hold on. I want to get a special order fixed, Mr. President. The gentleman withdraws. Mlr. TINCHER. No, I do not. The motion to adjourn was agreed to. So the Convention (at four o'clock and twenty-six minutes) adjourned. APRIL 30) 18,70. 1595 Section two was agreed to. Alr. TINCHER. Air. President: I move to refer the article to the Committee on Revision aud Adjustment. The motion was agreed to. [The fOllOWiDg is the article as referred to the Committee on Revision and Adj ustaient]: The PRESIDENT, pro temvorc. The question is on the adoption of section two. The Secretary read section two, as follows: NAYS. Eldredge, Hay, Medill, Bromwell, Buxton, cummidgs, Parker, Ross, Whiting-9. T VOTING. Rice, Robinson, Scholfield, Skinner, Butherland, Truesdale, wall, Wells, Wendling, Wheaton, Wilson, Wri bt Mr. President-39. 159 ()tTTTOA ()NETO oDY The motion of Me. Cameron, for the previous question, was agreed to and the main question ordered. The question then being on the adoption of the resolution, offered by Mr. Cameron, The yeas and nays were ordered, and, being taken, resulted-yeas, 24, nays 23 -as follows: EIGt TY-FIaTZr DAY. MONDAY, M~ay 2, 1870. The Convention met at nine o'clock, A. m., and was called to order by the President.' PRAYEI., Prayer was offered by the Rev. Mr. Ford, of Springfield, as follows: We come into Thy presence this morning, our Father, as worshipers, and we desire as we approach Thee, to have a proper conception of Thy character, and of the relation we sustain to Thee, our dependence upon Thee, for all the blessings of life, temporal and spiritual. We offer praise to Thee for Thy mercies, the temporal mercies of life. We thank Thee for the bright sunshine of this morning, we thank Thee for the beautiful lair weather we have, the pleasant, happy surroundings; we thank Thee for the pleasant circumstances surrounding us this morning here in this hall. We pray Thee for Thy blessing upon this body in their deliberations. Direct them in the path of wisdom, the path of right. May they not in the multitude of counsel forget the right, forget the great fact that Thou God secst us, that Thou understandeth the motives prompting them to act. ln their words, in their votes, in all they do may they remem ber that Thou knowest their inmost thoughts. We presy Thee that their lives may be precious in anhy sight. Thou has t see n proper sinc e they first assembled to take some of their number away. We pray that those who remain may be preserved in their health and interests. We also pray Thee God to bless their loved ones, whom they regard with so much of affection and fondness. Thou God, who art everywhere present, be precious to them, be near, guard their interests, protect them in all the affairs of home and surroundings. We now pray Thee for a blessing upon us this morning. Direct this body, direct all of us in the way of life; help us to shun the wrong, and walk in the truth. Keep our eye on the future, remembering that we are not living or acting for this but a future state. Living in view of the great future, may we so live as to have the approbation of God, and a welcome in Heaven, for Jesus Christ'y sake. Amen. Mr. SPRINGER. Mr. President: I move to refer the resolutiontothe Committee on Schedule. The motion was agreed to. LEAVE OF ABSENCE. Mr. HART. I wish to ask leave of hbsence for the gentleman from Champaign [Mr. Harwood] until to-morrow. Leave was granted nem. con. Mr. WHITING. I desire to ask leave of absence for the gentleman from Marshall [Mr. Perley] for three days. Leave was granted nem. con. Mr. GOODELL. I ask leave of absence for the gentleman from Edgar [Mr. Sutherland], until to morrow. Leave was grante d nem. con. Mr. ANDERSON. I desire to ask leave of absence for the gentle man from Adams [Mr. Skinner.] Leave was granted nem. c orn. ORDER OF BUSINESS. The PRESIDENT. The Chair will state to the Co nven tio n that the report of the Committe e of th e Whole, upon th e revenue article, a report of the Committee on Miscellaneous Subjects, and the report of the Committee of the Whole, upon the proposition of the gentleman from Grundy [M1r. Peirce], lie upon the table, subject to the action of the Convention, whenever it shall choose to take them,up. ABSENT, OR NOT VOTING. All e o le n of Al ex., Haines of CookPillsbury, Anthony, Hanna, Rice, Archer, Harwood, Robinson, Atkins, Iay, Scholfield, Bowman, Hayes, Skinner, Brown, King, Sutherland, Coolbaugh, Medill, Wait, Craig, Merriam, Wall, Dement, Moore, Wells, Ellis, Neece, Wendling English, Parks, Wheaton, Goodhue, Perley, Mr. President-36. So the resolution offered by Mr Cameron was agreed to. SUBMITTING THE CONSTITUTION. Mlyr. HAINES, of Lake, Mr. President: I offer the following resolution. The Secretary read the resolution offered by Mr. Haines, of Lake, as follows: Resolved, That the amendments to the Constitution proposed by this Convention be submitted to the electors of the State for their action, at an election to be held for that purpose, on the first Monday in August next. Mr. CODY.. Mr. President: I move to strike out "Monday," and insert "Saturday." Mr. HAINES, of Lake. I accept the amendment. F Mr. BUXTON. Mr. President: I move to amend by striking out "first," and inserting "fourth."l Mr. CROSS. Mr. President: I move to refer it to the Committee on Schedule. Mr. HAINES, of Lake. MIr. President:s I think that we are pr epar e d to decide that question here. The members are nearly all here, and I had rather have a vote upon the proposition in the Convention. The motion of Mir. Cross was agree d to. FIVE MINUTE RULE. Mr. CAMERON. Mr. Presi dent: I offer the following resolution for adop tion: -Resolved, That hereafter no member shall be allowed to speak for a greater length of time than five minutes, on any one subject. I move the previous question on the adoption of the resolution. Mr. WHITING. Mr. President: I wish the gentleman would not press the previous question on that. I would suggest that there are some very important measures coming up in connection with railroads and warehouses, and things that the agricultural interests of the country call for. I am opposed to the resolution, and move to refer it to the Committee on Rules. Mr. ALLEN, of Crawford, Mr. President: I rise to a point of order. The previous question has been moved, and the motion of the gentleman is not in order. The PRESIDENT. The motion for the previous question takes precedence of the motion to commit. So the resolution offered by Mr. Haines of Lake, was referred to the Committee on Schedule. SINE DIE ADJOURNMENT. Mr. WAGNER. Mr. President: I desire to offer a resolution for adoption. The Secretary read the resolution offered by Mr. Wagner, as follows: Resolved, That this Convention adjourn sine die, on Thursday, May 12, 1870. Mr. HAINES, of Lake. Mr. President: I move to amend by striking out "Thursday, May 12, 1870," and inserting "Saturday next." MISCELLANEOUS CORPORATIONS. Mr. McCOY. Mr. President: On the 29th of January the Committee on Miscellaneous Corporations m ade a report to this Convention. I wish to have it set down, to be heard in connection with the report of the Committee on Railroads, as it is of that nature. The PRESIDENT. It will be so ordered, unless objection is made. REVENUE. [The following is the report of the standing committee]: Sia. 1. All moneys accruing to the State by virtue of the charter of the Illinois Central Railroad Company, shall be paid into the State treasury, and forever constitute a portion of the revenue of the State. And the General Assembly shall have no power to release or otherwise discharge said railroad company from the payment thereof: Provided, however' that nothing herein contained shall be construed as affecting the application of said money to the payment of interestbearing State indebtedness until the extinction thereof, as provided in the charter of said company. SEC. 2. The General Assembly shall provide such further revenue as may be needful, by levying a tax by valuation, so that every person and corporation shall pay a tax in proportion to the value of his or her propertysuch value to be ascertained by some person or persons, to be elected or appointed in such manner as the General Assembly shall direct, and not otherwise; but the General Assembly shall have power to tax peddlers, auctioneers, brokers, hawkers, merchants, commission merchants, showmen, jugglers, inn-keepers, grocery keepers, toll-bridges,' ferries, insurance, telegraph and express interests or business, venders of patents and persons using and exercising franchises and privileges, in such manner as it shall, from time to time, direct by general law, uniform as to the class upon which it operates. SEC. 3. The specification of the objects and subjects of taxation shall not deprive the General Assembly of the power to require other subjects or objects to be taxed, in such man CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION 31ONDATI 1596 YEAS. Allen of Crwfd, Eldredge, Snyder,, Anderson, Ftiller, Springer, Browning, Haines'ofLake,Tincher, Bryan, McCoy, Turner, Buxton, Peirce, Vandeventer, Cameron, Poaze. Wtio-,ner. Cary,. Ross, Whbrn, Cummings, Sharp, Wilson-24. NAYS. Fox, Gamble, Goodell, Hankins, Hart, Hildrup, McDowell, Parker, Abbott, Bayne, Ben:lamin, . tromwell, Church, Cody, Cross, Forman, Sedgwick, Sherrill, Truesdale, Tubbs, Underwood, Whiting, Wright-23. REVEN'UE. I Mr. TURNER. Mr. President: I move we take from the table the report of the Committee on Revenue. The otion was agreed to. READING OF TIIE JOURNAL. The Secretary proceeded to read the journal of the last day's proceedings, when 'Mr. CUINIMINGS. Mr. President: I move that the further reading of the journal be dispensed with. The motion was agreed to. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. SEc. 4. The property of the State, coun- of said company, approved February 10, 1851, ties, and other municipal corporations, both shall ever be released, suspended, modified, real and personal, and such other property as altered, remitted or in any way or manner di may be used exclusively for agricultural and minished or impaired, by legislative or other horticultural societies, for school, religious, authority; and all monies derived from said ceecmetery and charitable purposes, may be company, after the payment of the State exempted from taxation, but such exemption debt, shall he appropriated and set apart for shall be only by general law. the payment of the ordinary expenses of the SEc. 5. The General Assembly shall pro- State government, and for no other purpose Svide in all cases where it may be necessary to whatever. sell real estate for the non-payment of taxes The PRESIDENT. The question is or special assessments for State, county, mu nicipal or other purposes, that a return of such unpaid taxes or assessments shall be the Committee of the Whole, by which made to some general officer of the county the substitute was inserted in place of the having authority to receive State and county first section. taxes; and there shall be no sale ofsaid prop Mr. GOODELL. Mr. President: I erty for any of said taxes or assessments, but by said officer, upon the order or judgment of would ask if an amendment is now in or some court of record. der? SEc. 6. The right of redemption from all The PRESIDENT. An amendment to sales of real estate for the non-payment of the substitute is in order. taxes, or special assessments of any character whatever, shall exist in favor of owners and Mr. GOODELL. I have an amendment persons interested in such real estate, for a which I will offer. period of not less than two years from such The Secretary read the amendment of sales thereof. And the General Assembly fered by Mr. Goodell, as follows: shall provide, by law, for reasonable notice to be given to the owners or parties interested, Provided, however, Nothing herein contain by publication or otherwise, of ti:,e fact of the tained shall prevent the General Assembly sale of the property for such taxes or assess- from setting apart to the counties through ments, and when the time of redemption shall which said road and its branches run, a por expire.'tion of the money received from said company Szc. 7. Rejected. in excess of the five per cent. named in sec Szc. 8. The General Assembly shall have tion eighteen of the charter of said corn. no power to release or discharge any county, pany. city, township, town or district whatever, or Mr. GOODELL. Mr. President: This S. e inha blyns therein, from thei r propor tionate share of is a question that interests the people of taxes to be levied for State purposes. nor shall the district that I have the honor to rep commutation for such taxes be authorized in resent. Szc.STheGneralAssembyshall eany form whatever. The latter part of this section provides Szc. 9. All taxes levied for State purposes that shall be paid into the State treasury, S~c. 10. Stricken out. All moneys derived from said comp~any, Mr. ANDERSON. Mr. President: I ask after the payment of the State debt, shall be that the sections introduced by myself appropriated and set apart for the payment of the ordinary expenses of the State g,overn some time ago, may be taken up and con- ment, and for no other purposes what sidered in connection with this report. ever. [The sections offered by Mr. Anderson My constituents, sir, regard that pro are as follows:] vision as unjust and very illiberal to SrfCT JO —. The General Assembly shall them, and I have prepared some state never authorize the assessment of taxes for ments in regard to this question, which I Stat e purposes, the aggregate of which shall hope the gentlemen will give th eir at - exceed sixty-five cents on each one hundred hen the tl will ge thei t dollars valuation. tention to for a few moments. SEc. -. No appropriation, by joint resolu- The Congress of the United States, on tion or otherwise, shall be made by the Gen- the 20th of September, 1850, eracted eral Assembly, unless passed by a two-thirds vote of each house. That there be, and is hereby, granted to the SEc. -. County authorities shall never as- State of Illinois, for the purpose of aiding in sess taxes, the aggregate of which shall ex- making the railroad and branches aforesaid eceed cents per one hundred dollars valu- (reterring to the Illinois Central), every alter ation, except for the payment of indebtedness nate section of land designated by even num existing at the adoption of this Constitution, bers, for six sections in width on each side of unless authorized by a vote of the people of said road and branches. of sidompay,pprvedebrary0,151,the county. The State never owned an acre of this alteed, emited,or i an wayor anne ThePREIDEN. Th qustio island in its own right or as the proper'ty dimnised r ipaied bylegslaiveorupon concurrence with the Committee of of the State. It is held as a grant in othr athoit; nd ll ony drivd fomthe Whole in its first amendment to thetrtfrmtegnrlgvrmn,tai sai cmpay,aftr he ayentof beSttereport of the committee on the r'evenne i aigti od h tt a the aymi~tof he rdiaryexpnse oftheartcle bywhih te frstsecionwasmerely the trustee. This is clearly shown Stae gvenmet, ndforno thr prpoesstricken out arnd another substituted in i eto or hr ti t.tc n whatever. ~~~~~~lieu thereof. actedSzc.2. he Gnerl Asemby shll ro- The Secretary read the section stricken Thttesiladheeygatdtth vide such f~~~~~~~~urthe eeu smybedu, otas follows: said State shall be subject to the disposal of the persn ne co oraion hal paya ta in SEcTIO.W 1. All moneys accruing to the State Legislaltnre thereof, for the purposes aforesaid proprtin t th vaue o hi orherproer-by virtue of the charter of the Illinois Cen- and no other; ty, uchvale t beascetaied y sme er-tral railroad company, shall be paid into the Adscinfv fsi c rvds suchmaner s te Gnera Asemby salltion of the revenue of the State. And the That if the said railroad shall not be corndirets nd ot oherise buttheGenralGeneral Assembly shall have no power to re- pleted within ten years, the said State of IlinAsseblyslial hve owerto ax pddlrs,lease or otherwise discharge said railroad comn ols shall be bound to pay to the United States auctonet abi ker hawers mechats,panty from the payment thereof: Provided how, the amount ~ hich may be received upon the commssio m~rantashowen, ugglrs,ever, that nothing herein contained shall hr sale of any part of said lands by said State, innkepes gicer kepers liuor-ealrs,construed as affecting the application of said and the title to the residue of said lands slhall tol- bid' a rrris,insrane,telgrph ndmoney to the payment of inicieret-bearing re invest in the United States, to have and to expessiiieret~ l b~inas,venersof at-State indebtedness until the extiurtion there- hold the same in the same manner as if this enta oweisoi eepr~ o dots,andperonsof, as provided in the charter of said corn- act had not been passed. using an cxci ciing franhises an privilees pany.These acts, Mr. President, sustain to a In uchma eras t hal, romtim t tie, The Secretary read the substitute of demonstration, the position which the dirctby ~ era lw,unior astotheclssthe Comnittee of the Whole, as follows. State occupies in regard to these lands — ~~~~~~~~~SzC..Thesciiato fteojcsad ScION. 1. No contract, obligation or lia- to the general government and to the subjctsof axaton hal notdepivethebility whatever of the Illinois Central railroad Illiiiois Central Railroad Compaiiy. GenralAssmby o th poerto equrecompany to pay any money into the State In co)nsidcratioin of the atbove grant of mann~~~~~~~~~te a s r,nr asnmy becnisent wit the prniSigtttaxpoetyefsi copany, inac land, the United States reserved the right alesof axaioLfixd inthi Costiutin. ordance with the provisions of the charter or privilege of transportation "free fronv ner as may be consistent with the principles of taxation fixed in this Constitution. Saxc. 4. The property of the State, counties and other municipal corpo rations, both real and personal, and such other propertv as may be nece ssary f or sc hool, religious, cemetery and charitable purposes, muay be exempted from tax ation; but such exemptions shall be only by gieneral law. SEC. 5. The General Assembly shall pro vide, in all cases where it may be necessary to sell real estate for non payment of taxes, or special assesments, for State, county, mu nicipal or other purposes, that a return of such unpaid taxes or assessments shall be madeto some general officer of the county having authority to receive State and county taxes; and there shall be no sale of said prop ty for any of said taxes or assessments but by said officer, upon the order or judgment of some court ot record; and the General As sembly may, in its discretion, provide that the application for the judgment shall be made at such uniform time throughout the State, as may be prescribed by law. SEc. 6. The right of redemption from all sales of real estate, for the non-payment of taxes or special assessments of any character whatever, shall exist in favor of owners and persons interested in such real estate, for a period of not less than two years from such sales ther eof. And the General Assembly shall provide by law, for reasonable notice to be given to the owners or parties interest ed, by publication or otherwise, of the fact of the sale of the property fbr such taxes or as sessments, and when the time of redemption shall expire. SEc. 7. The General Assembly shall pro vide for an equalization througoiit the State of the assessment of State taxes.. SEC. 8. The General Assembly shall have no power *o release or discharge any county, city, township, town or district whatever, or the inhabitants thereof, or the property there in, from their proportionate share of taxes to be levied for State purposes, nor shall com mutation for such taxes be authorized in any form whatsoever. SEC. 9. All taxes levied for State pur poses shall be paid into the State treasury. SEc. 10. All appropriations of the State revenue shall be from the revenue fund, iIi general, contained in the State treasury; and no appropriation of the tax collected or to be collected from any locality or district, or any designated property or source of revenue, shall ever be made. [The following is the report as amend ed by the Com,mittee of the Whole:] SEC. 1. No contract, obligation or liability whatever, of the Illinois Central railroad company to pay any money into the State treasury, nor any lien of the State upon, or right to tax profperty of said company, in ac cordance with the provisions o! the charter of said company, approved February 10,1851, shall ever be released, suspended, modified, altered, remitted, or in any way or mianner diminished or impaired, by legislative or other authority; and all money derived from said com1panay, after the payment of the State debt, shall be appropriated and set apart for the paymrenst of the ordinary expenses of the state government, and for no other purposes whatever. SEc. 2. The General Assembly shall provide such further revenue as may be needful, by levying a tax, by valuation, so that esvery person and cori,oration shall pay a taxr in proportion to the value of his or her propert-y, such value to be ascertained by some person or persons, to be elected or appointed ill such manner as the General Assemlbly shall direct) and not otherwise; -but the General Assembly shall have power to ta~x peddlers, auctioneer s, brockers, hawkersI, merchants, commiussion} merchants, showmen, jugglers, inn-keepers, grocery-keepers, liquor-dealers, toll-bridges, terries, intsurance,} telegraph and express interests or business, venders of pat-E ents, owners or keepers of dews, and perusons using and exercising franchises and privileges in such mane er as it shall, from time to time, direct by general law, uniform as to the class upon which it operates. SEC. 3. The specification of the objects and subjects of ta~xation bhalt not deprive thle General Assembly of the power to require other subjects or objects to be taxed in such manner as may be consistent with the princ~i101es of taxation fixed in this Constitution.9 400 15917 MAY 2, 1870. 1598 COSTITUT1ONAL COETIO MoNDAy erempted from all (local) taxation of every kind." By this charter the lands were exempt 'from all taxation, until sold and conveyed, and all other property of the company is exempt from local or municipal taxes forever. This was done, Mr. President, notwithstandii:g the General Assembly were actigng under a Constitution which provides that all taxes shall be levied by valuation So that every person and corporation shall pay a tax in proportion to the value of his or her property; and another provision that-e The corporate authorities of counties, townships, school districts, cities, towns and villages, may be v. sted with the power to assess and collect taxes for corporate purposes; such taxes to be uniform in respect to persons and property within the jurisdiction of the body imposing the same. And the General Assembly shall require that all the property within the limits of municipal corporations, belonging to individuals, shall be taxed for the payment of debts contracted under authori,y of law. toll or other charge of any droperty or troops of the United States" over said railroad; also to fix ttie price of carrying thle miails. The government then sold the'remaining half-of their lands, situated within six miles on each side of said road and branches, for double the minimum- price of other public lands, or two dollars and fifty-l cents per acre, and many of them were Sold as high as five dollars and six dollars per acre. From this statement of facts, it will be seen that the ULnited States made money by the grant and sale of. their lands; and it will also be seen that those who bought these lands, paid from two to five prices more for them than tho(-se who bought governmen-t lands off the~ line of this road. Another fact worthy of note at this point is that the owners of these lands, on the line of this road, have had to pay most of the taxes or revenue, derived from lands in the several counties where the road is located, since 1855, as the railroad lands are exempted from taxation till sold and conveyed. Now, sir, gentlemen assume, in discussing this section, that the State owned this land, gave or granted it, in its own right of ownership, to this railroad, and, therefore, that this revenue (seven per cent.) derived from the company —all of it — belonigs to the people of the whole t ate. These premises, Mr. President, are fals,,e. The State never invested one dollar in this road, never owned one dollar in this road, and never owned one acre of the land granted to~the company. Thierefore, the conclusion, -in regard to this fuond, asserted by gentlemen and enacted in this section. of the organic law of the State is wrong, ui~just and illiberal to the people of the State located on the line of this road, The general government gave, through the State as its trustee, two million five hundred and ninety-five thousanad acres of land to "aid in building" this railroad, and made money by~so doing. The grant proved to be a good giiad,:'nial transaction- for the United States government. Let us look, Mr. President, for a momenat, and see what the State has done in carrying out the trust of Congress in "aiding the building of this road." On the tenth of February, 1851, the five-sixths' of the whole grant, leaving o ne-sixted, or abo ut 430,000 acres uinsold, which will sell, prob:ably, for the full ,average price. Nqow, sir, this road, with its branches, is 708 miles long, and I have estimated that the cost of building and equipping the same is $25,000 per mile, wh-ich, I am informed, would be a very liberal estimate now, and, when the road was built, labor, iron and other material was much cheaper than at present. The total cost of the road, at that estimate, would be $17,700,000. This, deducted from proceeds and estimated value of'their lands, would leave a balance of $3,060,000 in the treasury of the company, after paying for the road and its equipments. Here, then, sir, we have 708 miles of 'railroad "made to order," and furnished to them (the company) "1without price;" a road whose gross earnings for 1869 amounted to $7,380,997.90, its net earn;Ings to $2,732,756.16. This is the net earnings, after paying the seven per cent., or nearly half a million dollars to the State; being an increase over last year of $438,009.43. The crops on the line of this road were far below an average last year, and the resources of the country are not more than half developed yet. Its future earnings and profits, who can estimate? These figures show clearly and conclus~ively, first,'that the general government received about three dollars for every dollar's worth of land granted. Secoind, the State of Illinois has received, up to this time, at least $10,000,000 more revenue and taxes than she would have re. ceived if the road had not been built. This is her commitssion for acting as trustee. Nqot only this, sir, bat she has had over $100,000,000 added to the actual wealth of the State, by the "bone and muscle" of the settlers located on the line of this road. For this, sir, what has she paid? Not one dollar. Who, then, Mr. President, paid for this road that has enriched, not only the railroad company, but has also been a source of revenue to the State? My answer is, that the, settlers on its line, who bought its lands,'and the government lands, paid the entire bill. Those who bought the latter, paid about; three government prices for their lands, and those who bought of the railroad Now, sir, under this unconstitutional charter, the State h'as received up to this time from the Central road, about $3,000, 000. The revenue from this source now amounts to half a million dollars per an num, and it is predicted by gentlemen welt postedthat that revenue will, within ten years from this time, amount to a mil lion dollars per annum. This, sir, under a prudent administration of our State government, will pay all the ordinary expenses of the State. This railroad has done more to develop the resources of this great State, more to increase the revenue of the State, fill the vaults of the treasury, and, consequently, to pay off the State debt, than any oth er single improvement ever made in the State. The increased am(unt of capital which this road has brought into the State,, and located all along its whole line, from Lake Michigan on the north, to the Ohio and Mississippi on the south, has paid into the State treasury, in taxes, at a very low estimate, $7,000,000. This, added to the amount received from the road direct (the seven per cent.), ma-'est the sum of $10,000,000. These, sir, are some of the benefits and profits the State has received from the building of this road, and for all these benefits, for all of this revenue, the State never paid or invested a single dollar. Sir, I candidly believe the State of Ili nois is a hundred million dollars richer to-day, than she would have been if this r oad had never been built. Yes, sir, this is a small, insignificant estimate, and is far short of the reality. [Here the hammer fell]. I["Go on." "Go on."] Mr. GOODELL. I am obliged to the Convention. I have not much more to say. I now wish, Mr. President, to call the attention of honorable gentlemen to facts, represented by figures (which do not lie) in regard to the value of this grant of land to the company, and the cost of building and equipping the road, etc. The grant was 2,595,000 acres, and $8 per acre is a low and safe estimate of its value. The reported sales for the year ending December 31st, 1869, show an average price of just $10.48 per acre; but, calling the average $8, and the total value of the land to the company is $20,760,000-and I will here state that the ame th sad crpoatin i heebyex-company have sold, up to this time, about lctdwti hi o~es o uii 1598 CONSTIT'UTIO.N'-AL CONVENTION MONDA.'Y MAY , 18 DEBATES AND PROCEEDIGS 1699 Strike out all after the word'government,'" in eigth line, and insert "Provided, the three quarters of one per ceut. in said charter be distributed in the counties on the line of said road." Mr. BENJANIN. I would ask for tha reading of the original section of the re port of the standing committee. The Secretary read section one as re ported by the standing committee, as fol lows; SECTION 1. All moneys accruing to the State, by virtue of the charter of the Illinois Central railroad company, shall be paid into the State treasury, and folever constitute a portion of the revenue of the State. And the General Assembly shall have no power to release or otherwise discharge said railroad company from the payment thereof: Provided, however, that nothing herein contained shall be construed as affecting the application of said money to the payment of interest-bearing State indebtedness until the extinction thereof, as provided in the c harter of said company. Mr. ALLEN, of Crawford. Do I understa nd that any of these propositions are now in order? The PRESIDENT. N on e of them are in order. The que stion i s o n concurr ence with the commrittee in its amendment, by which the first section was striken out and th e sectio n substituted. The yeas and nays were ordered. The Secretary proceeded to call the roll. Mr. McCOY (when his name was call ed) said: Mr. President: Will an amend ment be in order when we return to this section again? The PRESIDENT. Inasmuch as the entire section was stricken out and a sub stitute inserted, an amendment will not be in order. The Convention is acting under the operation of the previous ques tion. Mr. McCOY. Mr. President: Is it too late to ask for a division of the question? The PRESIDENT. It is too late, the Convention being engaged in voting. Mr. TURNER (when his name was called) said: Mr. President: There is a clause in the fourth line which may de. feat the section. The words are "ap proved February 10th, 1851." Having myself been present, and aided in getting this charter through, my impression now is that there were two d(istinct acts, both of which refer to this matter of seven per cent. Those words ought to be stricken out, and the phraseology left in accordance with that of the charter. I shall vote "Aye,"1 and probably move a reconsideration to strike thoua words out. Mr. McCOY (before the result was announced) said: Mr. President: If there is to be no further amendment, I wish to change my vote. The PRESIDENT. The Chair will state that, the result desired by the gentleman from Whiteside [Mr. McCoy] may Abe reachled by reconsidering the action of the Convention in concurring with the Committee of the Whole, and then amending. Mr. McCOY. I believe then that I will let my vote stand as it is. The result was then announced —yeaa 33, nays, 18 —as follows: pal purposes, and now we propose to bar or cut off all claims for relief in the fu ture. Mr. President: In the district which I represent, composed of the counties of Iro quois and Ford, there were located three hundred and seventy thousand acres of railroad land-more than is represented by any other member of this Convention. This, sir, is more than one third of the land in that district. It has been sold at an average of over ten dollars per acre, makirng three million seven hundred thousand dollars of-property, two-thirds of which has been exempt from taxation for local purposes for the last fifteen years. This I know to be a fact. Now, sir, our people regard that act, which goes into our district, and says that two or two and a half million of dollars' worth of property, such as is taxed in other districts, shall not be taxed for municipal purposes, as unjust. On the line of that road we have built up and improved the country; erected county buildings, churches and school houses; educated our children; and all this we have done without the benefit of taxes on railroad property, which communities living on other lines of road enjoy. Our people regard this charter of the company as unwise, "unjust and oppressive" in its provisions towards them. For these reasons, sir, I have offered this amendment to the section, and I do hope the Convention will adopt it. Mr. ALLEN, of Crawford. Mr. Presi dent: This ques"ion was fully discussed in Committee of the Whole-as I saw by the reports, for I was not here. I -believe the people of the State have made up their mixds on this question. While gentlemen representing counties along the line of this road would be gratified to have their people relieved, other portions feel that it would be unjust to them. As I do not believe further discussion on this subject would be profitable, I move to lay the amendment upon the table, and upon that I call for the yeas and nays. Mr. TINCHER. Mr. President: I hope the gentleman will withdraw that and let us come to a direct vote, as there is considerable interest felt on this subject. Mr. ALLEN, Of Crawford. Mr. President: I withdraw the motion to lay on the table, and move the previous question. The motion for the previous was agreed to and the main question ordered. The Secretary read the amendment offered by Mr. Goodell, as follows: Provided, however, nothing herein contained, shall prevent the General Assembly from setting apart to the counties through which said road and its branches run, a portion of the money received from said company ill ex2cess-of the five per cent. named in section eighteen, of the charter of said company. -The yeas and nays were ordered. Mr. BROMWELL (when his name was called) said. Mr. President: I would ask two minutes to explain my vote. ["'Leave."7 "Leave."] Mr. BROMWELL. The first proposition, which was fair and open, was to place ink this Constitution a provision all-owing these counties a certain share) which I have defended in this Contention, and still do, as being just and proper} and what the rights of the counties on the Central railroad demsand. I have also been all the time opposed Allen of Alex.,Goodhue, Anthony, Hanna, Archer, Harwood, Atkins, Hayes, Bowman, King, Brown, Medill, Coolbaugh, Merriam, Craig, Moore, Dement, Neece, Ellis, Perley, English, Pillsbury, So the amendment offered by Mr. Goodell was not agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon concurrence with the first amendment. Mr. GAMBLE. Mr. President: Are amendments in order? The PRESIDENT. No further amendments are in order, the Convention having ordered the main question. Mr GAMBLE. I would like to have my amendment read. The PRESIDENT. The Secretary will read the amendment for information only. IlThe Secretary read the amendment offered by Mr. Gamble, as follows: MAY 2, 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1599 to disturb and and thus abso " there for all unties under a bine with every eculation which he State, as the nly do. eater evil to the te of things esure, to be fought on granting and I than it would g the line to go d therefore, on the question on 0.11 n his name was dent: I would to explain my sufficient power stitutio.D, under ive the Legislace to these counhe Central road, the section proe from making has been moved Iroquis [Mr. terested in the emit to them a cent,l have no their right, or ustice. I there nnounced-yeas 14, u'ays 36-a follows: TEAS. Forman, Gamble, ,Goodell, Hart, McCoy, Bayne, Benjamin, Cameron, Cary, Eldredge, Parker, Tincher, Turner, it n' 4. Whl i g-1 NA.YG. Abbott, Fuller, Sharp, Allen of Crlfd.,Haines of Colk,Sherrill. Anderson, HainesofLake,Snyder, Bromwell, Hankins, Springer, Browning, Hay, Tubbs, Bryan, Hildrup, Underwood, Buxton, McDowell, Vandeventer, Church, Parks, Wagner, Cody, Peirce, wdl't, Cross, Poage, Washburn, Cummings, Ross, Wilson. Fox, SeLlgwick, Wri,-ht'-36. ABSENT, OR NOT VOTING. Rice, Robinson, Beholfield, Skinner, Sutherland, Truesdale, Wall, Wells, Wendling, Wheaton, Mr. President-33. TICA.S. Abbott, Hildrup, A.Ilen of Crfd., Me.Coy, Auderi3on, McD6well, Bowning, Medill, Snyder, Springer, Truesdale, Tubbs, 0 160 COSIUTOA COYNTO MoRA The yeas and nays were ordered, and, bein g taken, resulted-yeas, 22; nays, 27 -as follows: Buxton, Parks, Church, Peirce, C ody, Poage, Cummings, Ross, Fuller, Sedg,wick, Haines of LakeSharp Hankins, Sherrill, original minutes, and the word "for" occurs but once before the words " agricultural and horticultural societies." Mr. HAINES, of Lake. The- word "for," Mr. President, is struck out. Mr. UNDERWOOD (in his seat). It is the word "or." The PRESIDENT. The word "for," before the word " school," should be struck out to conform to the original minutes. The amendment will be declared - Mr. HAY. Mr. President: I would like to have a vote on the amendment by which agricultural and horticultural societies were inserted. I think a great deal of fraud will be practiced against the revenue of the State, under this amendment. The PRESIDENT. The Chair understands the gentleman from Sangamon [Mr. Hay] to call fbr the yeas and nays upon the amendment by which the words "agricultural and horticultural" were inserted. Mr. BAYNE. Mr. President: Is the previous question pending? The PRESIDENT. No, sir. Mr. BAYNE. Mr. President: I hope the words "agricultural and horticultu. rai" will not be stricken out. I am satis. fled, sir, that the manufacturing, agricultural and horticultural interests of the State a re deeply interested i n th is mat. ter. So far as my knowledge of this subjject is concerned the property belong. iug to agricultural societies is but very little, and they are, in many instances, struggling for existence. The section, as reported from the Com. mittee of the Whole, is just right, and I hope it will be concurred in. Mr. BRYAN. Mr. President: I con cur with the gentleman who has just ad. dressed the Convention, when these soci eties are conducted bv counties or by the State; but if individuals form associa. tions to promote their individual interests, I conceive they have no right of this sort. I think the amendment should be so amended, as to limit the provision to societies conducted by the counties or by the State. Mr. HAY. Mr. President: I can say I know, as a matter of fact, that these societies are being forming. throughout the State, for speculative purposes. I would have nlo objection, if such an amendment could be made, to exempting bona fide agricultural societies, fo~r the benefit of tarmers, but, I am satisfied, that as our taxes are becoming very heavy, underr the license here offered, attempts would be constantly made to exempt property in the vicinity of our growing towns t-&om taxsationl, under the pretense of having devoted it to agricultural faiwrs. Very valuable property in the vicinity of our large cities arid towns, can be exempted. It is too liable to abuse for speculative purposes. A fair may tie held on the land once ill five years, to keep within the letter of somle law or constitutional previaio requiring it to be used for iairs, esclusively, and yet, the real object be to hold the land foar speculation. Wee all kaow that very large tracts of land are held around ~our principal cities for spec'dlative purposes knowingf that ultimately it will be incorporated as a parteli the city, and be valuable fur town lotts-not used or agricultural or horticulD turai purposes, but just held inl that way, TEAS. Abbott, Haines ofLake,Tubbs, Bayne, Hart, Turner, Cross, Peirce, Underwood, Cummings, Ross, Wagner, Eldredge, Sherrill, Wait, Fuller, Snyder, Whiting, Gamble, Springer, Wright-22. Haines of Cook NAYS. Allen of Crfd.,Forman, Anderson, Fox, Benjamin, Goodell, Bromwell, Hankins, Browning, Hay, Bryan, Hildrup, Cameron, McCoy, Church, McDowell, Cody, Medill, Allen of Alex.,English, Anthony, Goodhue, Archer, Hanna, Atkins, Harwood, Bowman, Hayes, Brown, King, Coolbaugh, Merriam, Craig, Moore, Cross. Neece, Deme'nt, Perley, Ellis, Pillsbury, BSENT, OR NOT VOTING. x. English, Poage,' Goodhue, Rice, odanna, Robinson, Harwood, Scholfield, Hayes, Skinner, King, Sutherland, Merriam, Wall, Moore, Wells, Neece, Wendling, Perley, Wheaton, Pillsbury, Mr. President-3. So t h e amendment of the Committee of the Whole, inserting "owners or keepers of dogs," was not agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the first amendment reported to section four, by which the word "necessary" in the second line, was stricken out, and the word "exclusively" inserted, and it is declared concurred in. The question is upon the second amendment, by which, after the word "for," in the second line, was inserted the words "agricultura l and horticultural societies." The Secretary read section four, as follows: SEc. 4. The property of the State, counties and other municipal corporations, both real and personal, and such other property as may be uised exclusively for agricultural and horticultural societies, for school, religious, cemetery and charitable purposes, may be exempt from taxation; but such exemption shall be only by general law. Mr. HAINES, of Cook. Mr. President: I would like to have the opinion of the legal gentlemen upon this floor as to the construction that will be put upon this section, as it now stands. The Convention wished church and school property, not exclusively used for religious and educational purposes, to be taxed. The section is amended, so as to exempt property used exclusively for agricultural and horticultural purposes. Now, does that word "exclusively" apply also to school, religious and charitable purposes? I would like to hear the opinion of the gentleman from Sangamon [Mr. Hay] upon that question. Mr. HAINES, of Lake. Mr. President: It comes with its own construction. The exception is as it reads-"exclusively for agricultural and horticultural societies. Th le word "exclusively" applies to those words, the framer intending to have the succeeding "fior" apply to the succeeding subjects-school and religious purposes, etc. The PRESIDENT. The Chair ought to state to the gentleman from Lake [Mr. Haines] that there is obviously a typo - graphical error, as the Chair holds the 'd. The question is on the second amendment, proposed by the Committee of the Whole, to the second sction, by which &owners or keepers of dogs" were inserted in the ninth line. 1600 CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION MOllTDA.Yi Turner, Underwood, Vaiide-venter, Wagner, Washburn, Wilson, Wright-33. WAYS. Eldridge, Hart, Forman Hay, Fox, Parker, Gamble, Tincher, Goodell Wait Haines o'fCookWhiting-18. Bayne, BeDjam. I'll Bromwell, Bryan, Cameron, Cary, ABSENT, OR NOT VOTING. Parker, Parks,' Sedgick, Sharp, Tincher, Truesdale, Vandeventer, Washburn, Wilson-27. Ross, Robinson, Scholfield, Skinner, Sutherland, Wall, Wells, WendIii3g, Wheaton, Mr. President-32. Anthony, Archer, Atkins, Bowinan, Brown, Buxton, Cary, Coolbaugh, Craig, Dement, Ellis, A,.w D E I., l0 --- amendment would open the question to all individual societies, and allow clubs for horse-racing, and all that sort of L thing, to appropriate their grounds for that purpose, and exempt them from taxation. Mr. UNDERWOOD. I wish to sug gest to the gentleman from Adams [Mr. Browning] whether it would not be bet ter to say, after his amendment,'"and property used exclusively for schools, re ligious, cemetery and charitable pur poses." Mr. BROWNING. That addition to the amendment may be made. Mr. HAINES, of Cook. "Property owned and used." Mr. UNDERWOOD. Very well. Mr. SEDGWICK. I wish to call'the attention of gentlemen to this matter, for I think perhaps they do not fully un derstand the situation. In my own county, DeKalb, we have three agricultural and horticultural societies, organized under the general laws of this State, which pro vide for such societies, but, of course, there is but one that is really the county society. We are in the southern end of the county, and consequently, it is very inconvenient for our people to take their stock and their agricultural products to the northern part of the county, to the county society. On account of this difficulty, a society was organized in the extreme southern part of the county, composed of persoas who live in the northern part of LaSalle county, who are as badly situated, with regard to their county society, being about thirty miles from the county society, and persons living in Kendall county, who have united under the general law, and formed the society. They own twenty acres of land, the title of which is in the "Union Agricultural Society," is well improved, in fact, is the best ground for the purpose in the county; awd the fairs that are held there, are perhaps as great a success as-if not greater -than those held by the county society itself. Still further, the Legislature, at its last session, granted this society at Sandwich, in the southern part of the county, one hundred dollars out of the State treasury, the same as the county receives therefrom, for the encouragement of the society; so that, to all intents and purposes, this agricultural and horticultural society is placed upon the same footing with the county society. Now, I appeal to gentlemen, whether there is any justice in saying that the county society grounds, ill the northern part of the county, shall be exempt from taxation, while this:society, of as nmuch value and importance to the farming community as the other, will be comrpelled to pay taxes upon their twenty acres of ground. I think there is no gentleman upon this floor who can such cessfully gainsay the proposition, that if the one should be exempt fromn taxation, the other should also. Mir. M:EDILL. M~r. President: The phraseology of this amendment will give rise to abuse and fraud on the revenue of the State. I can see nothing in: the language of the amendment to the amendment, or either of them separately o~r both together, that will prevent frauds of the most alarming description being perpetrated hereafter on the tax-payers. The words proposed are, "owned or -used exclusively for agricultural and Fhor as county societies, which are equal in im portance to the county societies. I would suggest, however, that this section is notas broad as the gentleman from Sangaman [Mr. Hay] and the gen tleman from Crawford [Mr. Allen] seem to understand it. It does not propose to exempt anything, but simply to allow the, General Assembly to make these ex emptions under such restrictions as they think proper. I think that if we go to amending this section we will only in yvolve ourselves in difficulty, while if it is necessary to allow the General Assem bly to exempt anything, it seems to me that the objects set fourth are all proper and right in the terms as expressed. Mr. BROWNING. Mr. President: I wish to ask the gentleman from Crawford [Mr. Alle-il] to modify his amendment in one particular. As the section no,, stands, and as it will stand if his amendment be adopted, persons owning props erty suitable for the use of agricultural and horticultural societies, may rent to those 3ocieties, from year to year, make it profitable to themselves and still have it exempted from taxation. It authorizes the exemption of such property as may be used exclusively for agricultural and horticultural purposes. A man might own a valuable piece of land adjoining a town or,city, fit it up for such purposes, rent it at remunerative rates from year to year to those societies and have it used exclu - sively for such purposes. Yet, it would not be proper that he should be exemptAd from the payment of taxes, when de- riving revenue from the property. I therefore move the following amendment: insert after the word "may," in the second line, the following, so that it will read, "as may be owned by the State or county agricultural or horticultural societies, and used exclusively for agricultural ancd horticultural purposes." Mr. ALLEN, of Crawford. Mr. President: I accept the amendment. The PRESIDENT. The Secretary will read the section as it will stand if the amendment of the gentleman from Adams o[lr. -Brovning] be adopted. mThe Secretary read section four, as proposed to be amended by Mr. Browning, as follows: SEC. 4. The property of the State, counties and other municipal corporations, both real and personal, and such other property as may be owned by State and county agricultural and horticultural societies, and used exclusively for agricultural and horticultural purpos es, school, religious, cemetery and charitable purposes, may be exempted from taxation, but such exemption shall be only by general law. Mr. HAIlES, of Lake. Mr. Presi ts dent: I wish to insert after the woids "State or county," the words "or other agricultural or horticultural societies;" because we have in our county neighborhood societies claimed to be of equal importance with the county societies. Mr. ALLEN, of Crawford. I object to that amendment, because it gives men who desire to form themselves into an association, under the name of agricultural societies, the right to hold a large amount of property and use it for all purposes. Mr. HAINES, of Lake. is not that the case now, with these county agricultural societies? What is the objection to town societies? Towns are not persons. Mr. ALLEN, of Crawford. Thatu to await the event of years, by specula tors. The property is often very valuable, the taxes upon which would amount to considerable sums to our county and State treasuries. Under the inducements now offered by high taxation, men will seek pretexts to be exempted under laws forming a joint stock company to hold an agricultural and manufacturing fair once in one or five years, which they could well afford to do, in order to relieve the property from taxation. In this way the farmers of our country would be really burdened instead of benefited by the provision of this section, as their property would have to pay for the exemption affo:)rded these speculators. Mr. ALLEN, of Crawford. Mr. President: In order to remove the difficulty suggested, I offer the following amendment: Insert after the word "for" in the second line, the words "county and State." This would limit the exemption to the property ownred by counties or the State and used exclusively for agricultural and horticultural purpces, annd will not include individuals or associations. Mr. ROSS. If that amendment be adopted, churches and school houses would not be exempt, unless owned by the State o(r counties. Mr. ALLEN, of Crawford. I have no objection to aly suggestion the gentleman may offer which will remove that difficulty. A -furtheramendmenton that point may be made. Mr. UNDERWOOD. Mr. President: It will be seen by the first line that the property of the State, counties and the municipal corporations, both real and personal, is especially exempted. If parties desire hereafter, to hold property nominally for the purpose of agricultural and horticultural societies, but really that it may be exempt from taxation, they have only to transfer the title to the county. I presume the object is to go a little further. In most of the counties there is an agricultural or horticultural society, orguze d under general la". These societic conduce very much to increase the taxable property of the State and counties. They introduce the best kinds of stock ascd farming implements, fruits, etc. Although the State and counties may lose a little taxation by this exemption, it wrill gain the amount by the increase of taxable property. In every county where these s(~ieties are flourishing, wealth is increasing rapidly. Thley are of signal use to the farming. interests, and conduce greatly to the improvement and prosperity of the counties. Hence it is proper that the Constitution should incline to exemption in sulch cases, that these organizations racy be continued. The General Assembly will have to pass a general law in reference to societies of this kind- and the exemptions, and in passing such a law, will undoubtedly state that property to an amount not exceeding so much in ~ralue shall be exempted, so that it will operate all over the State equally. The limitation in the Constitution only requires that the grounds shall be used exclusively for such agricultural or horticultural purposes. Mr. HAINES, of Lake. Mr. President: That would operate very unjustly in the part of the country in which I live, because it has neighborhood societies as wel 401 I i i i t c t s t i r I i MAY 2, 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 160 CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION opposed to all the amendments. It appears to me the section is right as it stands reported by the Committee of the Whole. In it we have provided that the Legislature may, in its discretion, by general laws, exempt from taxation any property that is held exclusively for the use of agricultural and horticultural societies or schools, etc. If we attempt to legislate here in such a nianner as to prevent fraud, and provide for every possible case that may arise in the future, we shall fail to accomplish that object; but if we leave it as this section leaves it, with the Legislature, to provide for such cases as may hereafter arise, they can and will provide foer all contingencies that may arise, and will much more effectually provide against frauds in the revenue than we can if we make the attempt. There can be no danger in trusting that matter with the Legislature. If we cannot trust them with that, we may as well provide a code of laws throughout, and say we will have no Legislature in the future. I think the section as reported by the Committee of the Whole will more effectually prevent frauds, by leaving it entirely in the discretion of the Legislature to provide for cases as they may arise, than by any specific restrictions that we may place in the Constitution. 5Ir. CHURCH. Mr. President: I favor the report of the Committee of the Whole, empowering the General Assembly to deal with these agricultural'societiet by general law. I favored this before the committee, and will not now repeat the observations I then made. I believe there is no danger in leaving it to the General Assembly to determine even what kind of agricultural societies s hall be of sufficient merit to entitle themselves to exemption, particularly as it is to be done by general l.-w. Gentlemen will notice, by looking at this section, that none of these exemptions can be made except by general law that will affect the whole State-not by such special laws as have been passed hereto fore. If the case is as intimated by the gentleman from Con k [Mr. Haines], that a large portion of the property of the city of Chicago has become exempt, then I am alarmed. It is rather late in the session for that fact to be disclosed to us, but if such is the fact, that the great city of Chicago, in the county of Cook, has twelve per cent. of all its property exempt from taxation, I hope that, late as it is in the day, this Convention will not adjourn without having the facts laid before us, that we may reach the matter, and see whether there is not some method by which such injustice may be prevented, and the rights of the people be protected in respect to equality of their burdens. Mr. WAGNER. I move to lay on the table the amendments of the gentleman from Crawford [Mr. Allen] and the gentleman from Lake [Mr. Haines.] Mr. HAINES, of Lake. I move to lay all the amendments on the table. The PRESIDENT. The motion of the gentleman from Carroll [Mr. Wagner] is pending. The motion of Mr. Wagner, to lay on the table the amendments (ffered by Mr. Allen, of Crawford, and Mr. Haines, of Lake, was agreed to. MrFL. tCUMAMINGS. Mr. President: I ticultural societies." By that phraseology the owne rs of every lot of land, out side of the improved property in the county of Cook, can club together, form themselves into a pseudo-horticultural or agricultural society, aild thereby exempt millions upon millions of dollars worth of property. There is nothing to prevent all the owners of land around every city, town, and village in the State of Illinois, from clubbing their lauds to gether, calling themselves an agricultural or horticultural society, and thus escap ing taxation. I would much rather support an amendment that would read as follows: That all property used exclusively for agri cultural and horticultural purposes, shall be declared exen'pt from taxation. If we are going to exempt a portion of the lands and lots of the State, under pretext of aiding horticultural and agricultural societies, I want all the farmers and gardeners to have equal rights. I do not want the numerous class of conscienceless men to throw their property into "agri cultural and horticultural societies" and thus escape paying their just porportions of the taxes for the support of the general and local governments. We have already made large exemp. tions in this section, for school, religious, cemetery and charitable purposes-and under that term "charitable purposes," millions upon millions of dollars worth of property and land will be improperly exempted. It is a very loose and indefinite term, and opens the door to immense frauds on the rest of the tax-paying community. Now, if we open the other door that a]l property owned by State, county, city, town, village, and neighborhood agricultural and horticultural societies shall also be exempt, the better way is to adopt the amendment that I have suggested, that all property used for agricultural and horticultural societies shall pay no taxes. For if we do not, we will double the taxes upon the honest class of farmers, in order that the shirking class of land owners, living about cities, towns and villages, may escape paying their proportion of money for the support of government. ~ Mr. HAINES, of Cook. Mr. President: It strikes me that if we undertake to adopt any of these amendments, we shall so complicate this flatter that we will have, ill this Con~stitutio~n, authorized the exemption of more property than is exempte~d under the present Constitution. In our own city of Chicago alone, there is already e~xemupted, aside from the public property, one twelfth o~f the entire value of the citiy, including both real and personal property. -Now, to the exstent that that is exempted, aside from the public property} every tax payer has that much added to his taxes. I am afraid of this amendment. I am afraid of its bearingQ~ -o its applications. I had much rather that all of thes? exemptions should be stricken out of this article, except cemeteries. If charitable societies are started, they are supported by the charitable peo?ple belonging to the place, and why mot, like all other voluntary associationus, pay their j ust share of the expenses. of goverli, ent? In my judgment, all property except cemeteries, should pay taxes. 3Ir. FULLER. Mr. Pr~ident: i am move to strike out the words "agricultural and horticultural societies." The PRESIDENT. The Chair will state that if the Convention does not concur with the amendment, the words will be stricken out. Mr. CUMMINGS. Mr. President: The section covers all that is owned by the State and counties, unless it is intended to exemptthe property of individuals from taxation. Mr. UNDERWO OrD. Mr: President: In all counties where agricultural socie ties are formed under general lawr, this will make them all subject to taxation. Air. CUMMINGS. Then all they have to do is to deed their grounds to the county. y Mr. PARKS. Mr. President: Suppose the property of some of these agricultu ral societies is owned by a number of counies? I have in my eye now a prosper ous agricultural soctety, formed by the counties of McLean, Tazewell, DeWitt and Logan, called the "Union Agriculta ral Society." If this amendment is adop ted, this society and all like it will be taxed. I think the safest way is to adopt the-section as it is. Mr. CUMMINGS. The word "counties" is used, not "county." It would include twenty counties, if necessary. Mr. PARKS. It happens in this instance that there is no such word as counties in the cerise. Tihe name in full is the "Atlanta Union Agricultural Society," formed by the citizens of four counties. The section was well considered by the committee, and it is not safe to adopt hasty amendments. We had better let well enough alone. I hope the Convention will adopt the section as it is, without any doubtful amendments or changes. Mr. FULLER. Mr. President: If the prope:rty of these societies were deeded to the counties, would it not give the control of it to the county board of supervisors or county commissioners and take it entirely away from the agricultural societies? Mr. CUMMINGS. 31r. President: I think not. Mr. TUBBS. Mr. President: I would like to see this section amended by inserting the words "owned and" after the word "be," in the second line. It is obviously wrong to exefVmpt from taxation lauds leased to societies, and a source of profit to the owner. The PRESIDENT. The Chair will state that such an amendmnent may be proposed when the Convention comes to adopt the report. -~ Mir. CARY. Mr. President. It is well known to almost all persons who have had anything to do with agricultural so. cieties, that, so long as counties have had anything to do with them, they have dwindled and finally, as I am infiormed, became almost useless, so that it became necessaryr for those who were really interested in their success to resuscitate them. If eve change back so as to make county matters of them, in a few years they will doubtless dwindle again, so as to be comparatively useless. There is no doubt but there are many societies, as now constituted, both useful and of interest to agriculturists and horticulturists, which have just began to becomne useful. I am not inl favor of crushing out all these societies which do not happen to belong to a,county. 1602 MONDATI MAY 2, 1870. I)EBATE AN1) 1'ROQEEDIGS. 1603 Th PRSDET Th usini u yteCmiteo h hl,a ol ejsiibeuo ulcgons out by the. Co mmittee of th e Whole, as follows: SEc. 10. All appropriations of the State revenue shall be friom the revenue fund, in . general, contained in the State treasury, and no appropriation of the tax collected, or to be collected from any locality or district, or any desiguated property or source of revenue, shall ever be made. Mr. HAY. Mr. President: I hope the Convention will not concur with the committee in striking out this section. It was designed to prohibit a species of legislation, becoming quite too common by which an apology for appropriations of money is frequently introduced by way of preamble to the bill by which money derivable from a particular source is appropriated, as though that afforded an excuse for the appropriation of the money-as though it was any the less meoney of the State-money out of the State treasury-because it calve from any particular source of revenue. A sort of stump speech has, ot' late, been irjectedd into the bill making the appropriation, as though the bill could not be vindi cated unless that stump speech accompa nied it, Now, the object of this was to provide that every appropriation of money out of the State treasury should be a square appropriation of so much money, letting the objetct of the appropriation vindicate itself, and not seeking a vindication of it by a reference to the source from which the money came, for if it appropriates taxes properly going into the State treasury, it is p1art alnd parcel of the common revenue of the State, and the appropriation stands upon no better ground, and with no better vindication before the people, in reality, by referring to it as coming from a particuiar source of revenue, than if it stood as a square appropriation of the people's moniey fro)m the public treasury, because it is a portion of the common revenue of the State, whatever may be the source from which it is derived. But yet this sort of legislation is resorted to for the purpose of hoodwinking, for the purpose of making palatable an appropriation that could be vindicated on no other ground, for the purpose of deciving the people bI)y reference to the source from which the money came, as to its being an appropriation of the common money from the common treasury. I am satisfied that a prohibition of f his in the Constitution, requiring legislation by which moneys are appropriated fromm the State treasury, to be in the form of direct and square appropriations from the public moneys in the treasury, will have the effect of discouraging much of that vicious kind of legislatitn, which is, int effect, an attempt to argue by arguing that although the bill appropriates revenue belonging in common to the people of the State, yet, as it is appropriating it for some purpose su~pposed to be connected with that lorahity, they, therefore m may, by coupling the appropriation with the source from which the revenue comes, in some way apologize for it. I say that the argument and apology being cut off, and the appropriation bein~g lest to stand as a square appropriation from the State treasury, it would be left to stand upon the merits of the appropri ation, and everybody voting for it would have ~o consider the merits of the question, as to whether or not it was suchl an appropriation of the public money as would be justifiable upon public grounds; and that if this is adopted, we s hall have less of that spec ie s of legi slation. That was the object with which section ten was introduced by th e Com - mittee on Revenu e, and I hope that this Convention will not concur with the Committee of the Whole in striking it out. Mr. WAIT. Mr. President: This section ten seems to be more or less related to section one, in this report. I voted against section one, reported by the Committee of the Whole, as a substitute for the section reported by the Committee on Revenue, when the question was up for concurrence therein by the Convention. I did not vote against this section because I was opposed to the general principles contained therein, but because of the last clause in the section providing that all moneys derived from said compary, after the payment of the State debt, shall be appropriated and set apart for the payment of the ordinary expenses of the State government, and for no other purposes whatever. It then occurred to me, and it seems to me now, that as that fund is the result of appropriations that have already been made in land, and comes from the result of improvements, and will always be recollected as a fund connected with improvements, it might in some way be sacred to further improvements in this State. But the Convention entertained a different opinion, and adopted the proposition which provides that it shall be get apart, after the payment of the State debt, for the ordinary expenses of the State governmeit. This last section, which was stricken out in Committee of the Whole, seems to have the same idea embodied in it. No appropriation of a tax collected, or to be collected, from any locality or district, or ally description of property, or source of revenue, shall ever be made. Bayne, Hart, Bromwell, Hildrup, Cary,. McCoy".. Church, McDowell, Cody, Parker, Cross, Parks, Eldredge, Peirce, Fuller, Sedgwick, Gamble, Sharp, Goodell, Sherrill, Haines of Lake NAYS. Abbott, Cameron' Allen of Crwfd,Coolbaugh, Benjamin, Forman, Browning, Fox, Bryan, Haines of Coo] Buxton, Allen of Alex.,Goodhue, Anthony,- Hanna, Archer, Harwood, Atkins, Hayes, Bowman, King, Brown, Merriam, Cummings, Moore, Craig, Neece, Dement, Perley, Ellis, Pillsbury, English. Poage, tSo the ameendment of t he Comm itt ee of the Whole was agreed to.. The PRESIDENT. The question is on concurrence with the amendment made in Committee of the Whole to the fifth section, by which was stricken out the following language: - And the. General Assembly may, in its discretion, provide that the application for the judgment shall be made at such uniform time throughout the State, as may be prescribed by law. And the amendment will be declared concurred in. The next question is upon concurrence with the amendment made in Committee of the Whole to the seventh section, by which the section was stricken out. The Secretary read section seven as follows: SEc. 7. The General Assembly shall provide for an equalization throughout the State of the assessment of State taxes,. Mr. UNDERWOOD. Mr. President: I ask for the yeas and nays on that ques tion. Mr. CHURCH. Mr. President: I would call the attention of the gentleman to the reason why it was stricken out-as being legislation, and as embraced in section two. Mr. UNDERWOOD. Is there anything in section two to prohibit the General Assembly from passing: such a law as now exists Mr. CHURCH. There is not. Mr. UNDERWOOD. I withdraw -the call for the yeas and nays. The PRESIDENT. The amendment of the Committee of the Whole, striking out section seven will be declared agreed to. The question is on the amendment of the Committee of the Wholee to section ten, AIr which it was stricken out. The Secretary read section ten, strickeu Allen of Crfd., English, Sharp Anderson, Foreman, Truesdale, Bay ne, Haines of Lake,W ait, Benjamin, Hankins, Washburn, Bryan, Mc(oy, Whiing, Cody, Parks, Wrighit —2. Cutrmmings, Ross, a t a c t -MA-Y 2, 1870. .JPEBATES AND, PROCEEDIN'GS. 1603 The PRESIDENT. The question is on the amendment by which the words "agricultural and horticultural societies" -are inserted. Mr. C R O S S. Mr. President: I call for the yeas and ii.ays. The yeas and,, nayo were ordered, and, being' taken, resu-Ited-yeas 34, nays 16 — as follows: Skinner' Spr' n4er, i., T b.r,' Truesdale, -uTubbs, .n,derwood, Wagner, wait, Wabhburn, Whiting" Wright-34. .&BSRNT. OR NOT VOTING. Rice, Robinson, Beli'olfl(-,].d,. Skinner, Butherltt-nd, -,Vandeventer, - Wall, I Wells,, Wendling, Wbeaton, IMr. Preident-33. That is,'it makes no difference how much sacri-fice has been made'by any lo, cality or place, how private funds have been invested in any public im Dt, -no advantage shall bL- derived by reason thereof, or bene-fit therefrom. I know there is a general, feelidg in' this State that the time may sometime come when this revenue derived from the Illinois Central railroad company I may be .diverted from its present channel, and be made local instead of general th roughout the State. I hope the time uerer- will come. I do not believe it ever will come,. but at the same time it seems to me that we should IDot devote this fund entirely to the ordinary expenses of the State governmeht, but leave it so that it may be u,,,ed for improvements intbe State, if the General Assembly may so provide. 'The PRESIDENT. Will the Convention agree with the action of the Committee of the NN hole in striking out the tenth section.9 The yeas and nays were ordered, and, ,being taken, resulted- eas 20, nays 26 as follows: YEA69. t CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION Mr. FOX. I am very much obliged to the gentlemen for their courtesy. The result was then announced-yeas 34, nays 17-as follows: The amendment offered by Mr. Church was -agreed to. Mr. SPRINGER. I propose an amend ment-to add after "corporation," just inserted, the word "owning"-strike out "and" and insert "or." TLhe amendment offered by Mr. Spring er was agreed to. Mr. CUMMINGS. I mote to strike out "by," in the second line, after "tax," and insert, in lieu thereof, the words "not exceeding sixty-five cents on the hundred dollars." Mr. WASHBURN. Mr. President: I -move to amend the amendment by insert ing fifty, instead of sixty-five. Mr. ALLEN, of Crawford. Mr. Pres ident: I hope these amendments will not be adopted. We, perhaps, have run ourselves in debt so much that sixty-five cents will not probably relieve us. Mr. WASHBURN. Mr. President: I have lived now morel than forty years, and I have seen the rates of taxation, wherever I have limed, whether in this State or in the one I came from, contin ually advancing. They have been grad ually increasing, from time to time. I do not know of anything in the whole his tory of legislation by which taxation has been reduced, except by an absolute lim itation. It is true, as an axiom of political economy, that, as a nation increases in population and wealt h, i ts taxes ought to decrease in rate per-centum. But:the contrary of that has been the universal rule, in the history of this country. In stead of decreasing, they have been grad ually increasing, until the people are overburdened and crushed with exhorbi tant taxation, and I see no remedy, except by limitation upon the power of taxation, Noit only has the rate per cent. of tax ation not decreased, as it should have done, with the increase of wealth and population, but, sir, it has continually and sometimes rapidly increased, until now the property of the county is so overburdened with taxation-national, State, county and municipal-that the annual taxes amount to almost as much as the annual value of the property, so that property has become almost a burden, instead of a benefit. I can see no other way of reducing this enormous and crushing burden of taxation, except by an absolute limitation on the power of the Legislature to assess and collect taxes. I hope the amendment will be adopted. Mr. TURNER. Mr. President: I am opposed to repudiation in all forms, and if the people will send reckless and extravagant men to the General Assembly, who will run the State in debt, I must insist that the people shall pay these debts, even though it costs cent per cent. upon all they are worth. I know it may be hard and burdensome, but I must insist upon it that when we have incurred a debt, that debt shall be paid, if it costs the last dollar. I am opposed to any limitation of taxation at all, until the debt of our State is paid, and then, if we shall have learned a lesson from our extravagance, the people will reduce their public expenditures, and thus decrease the burden of taxation. Mr. BRYAN. Mr. iPresidlent: This is an important question, and one that deseresssto be seriously considered. I apprehend there is no question passed upon in Contention that will tend more to determine the acceptabilitypof the Constitu 3EAS. Abbott, Haines of Lake,Springer, Allen, of Cr'fd,Hankins, Truesdale, Anderson, Hildrup, Tubbs, Browning, McCoy, Turner, Bryan, Parks, Underwood, Buxton, Peirce, Wagner, Church, Ross, Wait, Cody, Sedgwick, Washburn, Cross, Sharp, Whiting, Cummings, Sherrill, Wilson, Forman, Snyder, Wright-34. Fuller, ABSENT, OR NOT VOTING. Allen, of Alex. Gamble, Poage, Anthony, Goodell, Rice, Archer, Goodhue, Robinson, Atkins, Hanna, Scholfield, Bowman, Harwood, Skinner, Bromwell, Hayes, Sutherland, Brown, King, Vandeventer, Cameron, Merriam, Wall, Coolbaugh, Moore, Wells, Craig, Neece, Wendling, Cross, Perley, Wheaton, Dement, Pillsbury, Mr. President-37. Ellis, So the Convention refused to concur with the action of the Committee of the Wh ole by which section ten was stricken out. The PRESIDENT. The question is u pon th e ado pt fr s ction of the first section, as repor ted by the Committee of the Whole. The Secretary read section one, as follows: SBc. 1. No contract, obligation or liability whatever of the Illinois Central railroad comr pany to pay any money into the State treasury, nor any lien of the State upon, or right to tax property of said company, in accordance with the provisions of the charter of said company, approved February 10th, 1851, shall ever be released, suspended, modified, altered, remitted, or lA: any way or manner diminished or impaired by legislative or other authority; and all moneys derived from said company, after the payment of the State debt, shall be appropriated and set apart for the payment of the ordinary expenses of the State government, and for no other purposes whatever. Mr. ALLEN, of Crawford. Mr. President: I demand the previous question. Mr. HAY. Mr. President: Will the gentleman give me an opportunity of proposing a substitnte which combines, in reality, all we have passed upon, with a little more brevity? Mr. ALLEN, of Crawford. I must insist upon my call for the previous question. Sir. GAMBLE. Mr. President: I wish to offer an amendment The PRESIDENT. Neither amendment, nor debate, nor inquiry is in order at the present time. The question being upon the motion of Mr. Allen, of Crawford, for the previous question, a division was ordered. The Convention divided, when, there being twenty-four in the affirmative and eighteen in the negative, the motion for the previous question was agreed to, and the mlain question ordered. M~r. MEDILL. Mr. President: I wish to offer an amlendment. The PRESIDENT. The amendment is not in order, the Convention having ordered the mwain question. The question is upon the adoption of section one, as reported by the Committee of the Whole. The yeas and nays were ordered. The Secretary proceeded to call the tMr. FOX (when his name was called) said: Mr. P-resident: I would like to say a word in explanation of my vote-= ["Object.'} "Object."'], Allen of Alex., Hanna, Anthony, Harwood, Archer, Hayes, Atkins, King, Bowman, Merriam, Brown,, Moore, Coolbaugh, Neece, Craig, Perley, Dement, Pillsbury, Ellis, Poage, Goodhue, Rice, So section one was agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is on the adoption of the second section, as agreed to in Committee of the Whole. The Secretary read section two, as fol lows: SEc. 2. The General Assembly shall provide such further revenue as may be needed, by levying a tax, by valuation, so that every per son anid corporation shall pay a tax in proportion to the value of his or her property —iuch value to be ascertained by some person or persons, to be elected and appointed in such manner as the General Assembly shall direct, and not otherwise; but the General Assembly shall have power to tax peddlers, auctioneers, brokers, hawkers, merchants, commission merchants, showmen, jugglers, inn-keepers, grocery keepers liquor dealers, toll-bridges, ferries, insurance, telegraph and express interests or business, venders of patentsi,, and persons using and exercising franchises and privileges, in such manner as it shall, from time to time, direct by general law, uniform as to the class upon which it operates. Mr. CHURCH. Mr. President: I now offer an amendment in the ninth line of section two. Add after the word "persons" the words "or corporations," so that corporations will stand in no more favorable situation with reference to the powers of the General Assembly over taxation, than persons do. Perhaps "corporations" might possibly be construed to be included in the word "persons:" but inserting the words "or corporations" will exclude doubt, and render the section safe. Mr. HAINES, of Lake. Would it not be better to insert in the schedule, that the word "persons," wherever it occurs in the Constitution, shall include "corporations?" "Persons"may occur somewhere else, with the same meaning. Mr. BENJAMIN. From the very fact that the second line of the section contains the words "person" and "corporation," it might be inferred firom the omission of the latter word in the subsequent part, that the word "persons," in that connection, was not intended to include "corporations;" and, therefore, to make the matter clear, the amendment should be adopted. 160-1 19ONDAYI WAYS. Abbott, -, Hart, Browniiag, Hay, Buxton, Hildrup, C-Y, McDoNie'll, Church, Medill, Eldredge, Parker, Fox, Peirce, Fuller, Sedgwick, Hal-nes ofcook,Shrrill, Snyder, Springer, Tincher, Tubbs, Turner, Underwood, Wagner, Wilson-26. KAYS. English, Hay, Fox, McDowell, Gamble, Medill, Goodell' Parker, B.aines O'fCook,Tincher-17. Hart, Baype, Beujamin, Bromwell, Cameron, Cary, Eldredge, ABSENT, OR NOT VOTING. Robinson, Scholfield, Skinner, Butherli,nd, - Vandeventer, Wall, Wells, Wendling, Wheaton, Mr. President-32. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. is sir, it is plain to me that the practical opn- eration of this provision will work great injustice towards certain counties of the le- State, and will operate in favor of other he counties. re Now, sir, we have already inaugurated ad and engaged in the undertaking of erecthe irga new state house. We tave already, re by act of the Legislature, decided in faut vor of building another normal universiae ty. We have already decided by act of he the Legislature, in favor of building an. be other asylum for the insane, and already, so under an act passed, provided for the er erection of another penitentiary. All of li- these works can only be carried forward ill and accomplished by the expenditure of ill large sums of money. 30 Now, if we limit the amount of taxation which may be imposed, to sixty-five or re seventy-five cents on the one hundred dolylars, those works can only be carried on by eincreasing the assessment, by raising the d valuation of all the property of the State to a par value, instead of holding to the ze present system of assessing the property 7e at one-third or one-fourth of its cash valo. ae. How will this work? Why, sir a one-half of the counties of this State, and s, perhaps more than one-half, have already r, taken advantage of the act of the Legis:e lature of 1869, by which they are to have y refunded to them all the increase of their s State tax, resulting from any increase of e- valuation above the valuation of 1868, for n railroad purposes-for the purpose of I, building railroads within their towns ;t and counties. So the practical operation i- of this'restriction will be that the valua tion of property must necessarily be ine creased, because of the restriction, to its par value, while all the benefit of this It increase of valuation, over and above the - present one-third or one fourth ratio, will t go to the advantage of the counties which s have taken the benefit of the act of 1869, e refunding a portion of the State taxes; - so that all the expenses of the State gova crumout, as well as the completion of the h State house and other public buildings, . will bear chiefly upon those counties which have not already taken the benefit of that iniquitous act, by voting county e or town aid for railroad purposes. a The result will be that the burden of l all these great works of improvement which have already been commenced, and e which it is too late now to abandon, will fill chiefl upon those counties which f have not commenced building railroads C under the "tax-stealing" law of the last Legislature, and that those count.;es which tare now building railroads under the op eration of the law of 1865 and the law r of 1869, will be exempt from this increase iof assessment, and will possess a great t advantage over those counties which are not thus engaged in such enterprises. This proposition, then, means simply l this, that a few counties shall support the State government, and erect the public s buildings, while the other counties shall ; be exempted, that they may build rail> roads. I hope this amendment will be ,withdrawn or voted down, and that no E renstriction or limitation of the kind will ; be incorporated in the Constitution. Mr. CHURCH. Mr. President- We ; have introduced a proposition in the Con stitution, which has been adopted, look~ lg to economy in one direction, and the prevention of heavy burdens, by provici. inlg that the debt shall not be increased in any case beyond two hundred and fiftyy w at its par value. My impression is th ought to be seventy-five cents on the hu a dred. i- It is true, as remarked by the gentl e man from Marion [Mr. Bryan], that th p- Legislature frequently appropriates mo 1. than is anticipated, that arguments an n necessities are brought to bear on th 1-members, and they appropriate mor r, money than they are even willing to. B1 e they are almost driven into it by th - wants of the charitable institutions of th [. State. While the people to-day may b e suffering under heavy taxation, it is als 1 true that we are building quite a numbe s of State institutions that require an add l tional tax this year beyond what we wi y have for years to come. I hope we wi c never be compelled to appropriate s f much again. When the present improvements ar 1 completed, I have no doubt that fift cents on the hundred will furnish all th - means necessary to run the State, an keep the State institutions in repair. - When the insane asylums came up w were ready to vote for one, but when w found one insufficient, we voted for tw - Hearing it reported that there were thousand of the insane in poor-house, or tied up in their homes uncared for q moved the sympathies of the Legislatur t to appropriate money beyond what the really desired to do. Then, the asylum Wat Jacksonville were burnt, which re quired additional expenditure. I can ;say, on behalf of the last Legislature that it was with great reluctance tha they made these necessary appropria tions. I move to insert "seventy-five" in plac of "sixty five." I hope the people will demand tha their representatives shall, under no cir curnstances, appropriate more than tha will raise. I am glad(l this proposition ha been introduced, and I hope it will be engrafted in the Constitution, that Legis latures may hereafter see that there is constitutional provision, beyond which they cannot pass, in burdening the peo pie with taxes. The PRESIDENT. There is an amend menit to an amendment pending, and the amendmnent moved by the gentleman from Vermilion [Mr. Tincher] is not in or der. Mr. PEIRCE. Mr. President: I hope none of these amendments will be adopt ed, that no limitation or restriction or this kind will be inserted in the organic law. I am as much in favor of an econom ical administrat-on of State government as any other gentleman on this floor. ] think my record and votes as a member of this Convention, and as a member of E preceding Leglislature, will prove that assertion. But, sir, I can see in this prop osition, a plan by which great injustice may be accomplished towards one portion of this State, to the benefit of another. I am willing to admit that it is perhaps not the purpose of the gentleman moving the amendment, to work any injustice to any particular section of the State. But, sir,]it seems to me that this proposition is as much worse and as much more unjust than the act of 1869, as that act was more iniquitous than fair, square and honest legislation. I am willing to take the frank admission of these gentlemen that they only desire economy to be introduced in the administration of ouf State affairs. But, tion before the country than the one no under discussion. I concur with the gentleman frog Stephenson [Mr. Turner] in the declare tion that our indebtedness should b paid, that every dollar we have contract ed should be honestly and promptly paid But, sir, I must insist, as every gentleman upon this floor must, that the State of I1 linois would be largely better off to day that every citizen in the State would bc largely better off if one half of the in debteduesb had not been contracted at all We have nothing to show for it, and the greater part of it having been create( without the approval of the people, it ii an oppression upon their industry. Much of it, as is well known, was fraudulentls contracted-especially that portion which was contracted under the old system ot improvement. Every ea. y Illinoisan is compelled to bear testimony, as I have no doubt he will, that a large part of the indebted ness of the State of Illinois to-day, has been heaped upon us by unguarded, un wise and speculative legislation. If he is an early Illinoisan he will come to the rescue. I shall not insist that this pro vision shall apply to the present indebt edness. I am willing that it shall be qualified, and that it shall be so amended that taxation shall be no greater than fifty per cent., as an annual assessment. We have some little capacity to judge of the amount required, and of the prodigality of former Legislatures, which it is our right and our duty to enter our protest against. Mr. President, the honorable gentleman from Stephenson [Mr' Turner] will bear testimony to the fact that there are combinations, associations and influences brought to bear upon every session of the Legislature to swell the expenditure. It is true in public as in private life, that we do require a safeguard. If it is understood that fifty per cent. is the highest limit, we will be able to reach all the necessary end, of government. As in private life a limit serves a useful purpose, and if our experience satisfies us of such a fact, why not say so now in the Constitution? No gentleman will deny that fifty per cent. is a large amount, and is abundantly sufficient for all the legitimate expenses of the State government. Our indebtedness has been made by unlwarrantabile appropriations, and a limit would be a useful restraint. Mr. TINCHER. Mr. President: When this amendment was introduced by the gentlemanl from Jefferson [Mr. Anderson] in the Committee of the Whole, it struck me very favorably. I believe we ought to place some limit upon the Legislature in the future. Yet, I am not in favor of repudiation in any senge. I am for paying every debt contracted on the part of the State, and not only paying it, but paying it promptly, and the proposition does not ill any way savor of' repudiation. But if we place a limitation in the Con6titut;0n, it will teach the representativss of the people that there is a point beyond which they must not appropriate the funds of the people of this State. While it is true that sixcty-five cents on the hundred may not bring in monley enough to run the State and meet our indebtedness, funds must be raised in an. other way —by taxing property at onehalf or two-thirds its value, or may be 402 * M.Y 2, 1870. 1605 1606 CONSTITUTIONAL COVITJO MONDAY, where it now is, and always should be. The Convention may then be in a situation to act understandingly upon the proposition. The motion of Mr. Church, to commit section two, with the amendments proposed thereto, to the Committee on Finance, was agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon tlhe adoption of the third section. The Secretary read section three, as follows: SEc. 3. The specification of the objects and subjects of taxation shall not deprive the General Assembly of the power to require other subjects or objects to be taxed in such manner as may be consistent with the principles of taxation fixed in this Constitution. Section three was agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon section four, as amended in the Committee of the Whole. The Secretary read section four, as follows: Stc. 4. The property of the State, counties and other municipal corporations, both real and personal, and such other property as may be used exclusively for agricultural and horticultural societies, school, religious, cemetery and charitable purposes, may be exempt from taxation; but such exemption shall be'only by general law. Mr. CODY. Mr. President: I desire to offer the following amendment: Insert after the word "personal," in the second line, the following words: "the land used for public highways, other than that of railroads and other corporations." I move the pievious question upon the adoption of the amendment. The motion for the previous question was agreed to, and the main question ordered. Mr. CODY. Mr. President: I call for the yeas and nays. The yeas and nays were ordered, and being taken, resulted-yeas, 29; nays, 23 -as follows: thousaid dollars, but thett for casual defi t-iecies it th e revenau, there may be a debt of that amount. That, sir, will af ford no protection to the people of the State, but, on the contrary, will have th e effect of increasing most terribly the burdens, unl ess we eituer have imposed or do impo se c hecks in this Constitution, either by guar ds a gain st legislation, which will prevent excessive appropriations, or else by restricting the amount of tax to be levied. Otherwise it will have the same effect, or a t least will be liable to have th e s ame effect that we have expe rienced in the past year. Now, I beli eve, sir, that had it not been for e las n the clause in the old Constitution, limiting the pow er t o create debt to fifty thousand dollars, there would undoubted ly have been a debt created last winter to the amount of perhaps some millions of dollars. The General Assembly went on and made appropriations regardless of the condition of the treasury-appropria tioiis which would require a revenue double the amount which had been pro vided for by law. There was no way to meet these appropriations, except by the creation of a debt, by a loan by-the State, or by direct taxation, in that year. The Constitution had prohibited the loaning of the credit of the State, in order to fill the treasury, from which that appropriation could be paid, and very properly so, too. Hence, the only alternative then was to let',he credit of the Statego down and repudiation take place, or else provide the means to pay these appropriations —and those means were provided by levying an additional'tax. I think I am not mistaken in saying that, up to the present year, sixty-five cents have been ample to pay the whole expenses of the State government, to pay all the interest upon the State debt when it was at the largest, and to provide the two mill tax for the reduction of the State debt, by payment upon the principal. All that has ever been required has never gone b,,yond six and one-half mills, the amount proposed by this amendment. Now, ulnless we do impose some limitation, by express checks, we may. be exposed to the doubling, and the very next tax we may be called upon to pay may be twenty-six mills, instead of thirteen mills or six and a half as heretofore; for we are paying now just double what we have ever paid before. I am not prepared to say whether six and one-half mills are sufficient,t or whether it is more than is necessary, nor do I believe any genltleman in this Convention is prepared to say, without some investigation. We are instituting a new government, providing for new salaries, new compensations. Whatever we do adopt, if we do adopt anything, should be adopted with reference to the financial aspect of the Constitultion we are now framing, because if that Constitution is adopted these restrictions will be adopted with it. Without an investigation by some commnittee upon that question, I should be unwilling to vote upon any one figure. I. therefore, move that this amendment, with the section, be referred to the Committee on Finance, with instructions to investigate and report back to this Convention the result of their investigation as to the amount of taxr that will probably be required hereafter for the State gowvrrr,,,let, to discharge the State debt, keep the credit of the State above par, The PRESIDENT. It is in o rder, s o far as i t a pplies to e, the amendment the Convention has just agreed to, on the mo tion of the gentleman from DuPage [Mr. Cody]. I t i s in order to move to strike out all subsequent to "personal," in the second section, down to "purposes." _ Mr. HAINES, of Cook. Very well, sir; I want to strike out all the exe mption that has not been ag reed to. Mr. BAYNE. I move to lay the amend ment on the table. The motion was agreed to. Alr. SPRINGER. There must be an error in the section just agreed to, and I move a reconsideration of it. In its present shape it would affect turnpikes and plank roads. I would move to'insert, after the amendment in serted, the words, "not owned by private corporations." The PRESIDENT. The journal will show a reconsideration of the motion by which the'amendment of the gentleman from DuPage [Mr. Cody] was adopted. The question is on the section as amend ed, and it will be declared adopted. The question is upon section five. The Secretary will read. The Secretary read section five, as fol. lows: SEc. 5. The General Assembly shall provide, in all cases where it may be necessary to sell real estate for the non-payment of taxes or special assessments, for State, county municipal or other purposes, that a return of such unpaid taxes or assessments shall be made to some general officer of the countv having authority to receive, State and county taxes; and there shall be no sale of said propelrty for any of said taxes or assessments but by said officer, upon the order or judgment of some court of record. Mr. SPRINGER. Mr. President: I propose the following amendment to section five, to be inserted at the end of the section: Add to the section the words: "And such sales shall not be made oftener than once in each year, and only at such time as shall be fixed by general law." Mr. HAY. Mr. President: This question was fully discussed in Committee of the Whole, where it was demonstrated that it would be unfortunate to incorporate such a provision as this in the Constitution, because the sales could not be made at the same time throughout the State. Mr. SPRINGER. My idea is not to have a half dozen tax sales iul one year. Mr. CODY. Mr. President: I move to strike from the amendment all after the word "yearly for the samle reasons that induced us in Committee of the Who~le to determine that it would be impossible to fixs absolutely upon one day throughout the whole State for tax sales. I fear the amendment may receive a construction requiring this, and if it provides that there shall be but one sale in the year, it will perhaps accomplish all that is desired by the mover. Mir. SPRINGER. Mr. President: There might be two sales ofe different property, ~anid yet be blut one sale of the same propertyr. General laws may meet such cone tingencies as sug~gestedl by the gentleman from DuPage [Mr. Cody]. Mr. HAIINES, of Lake. Mr. President: There is a differenee between the term "sale," and "time of sale." The gentleman's amendmaent is that the property shall not be sold but once in a year. MIr. SPRINGER. 1~o, sir, that is not the wording of it. It is Chat the sale for Haines of Co'k,Sedgwick, Hankins, Sharp, Hart, Sherrill, Hildrup, Turner, McCoy, Wagner, McDowell, Wait, Merriam Whiting, Parker, Wilson,. Parks, Wright-29. Ross,, . Allen of Alex.,Goodell, Rice, Anthony, Goodhue, Robinson, Archer, Hanna, Scholfield, Atkins, Harwood, Skinner, Bowman, Haves, Sutherland, Brown, King, Wall, Cary, Moore, Wells, Coolbaugh, Neece, Wendling, a Craig, Perley, Wheaton Dement, Pillsbury, Mr. President-31. Ellis, So the amendment offered by Mr. Cody was agreed to. Mr. HAINES, of Cook. If in order, I move to strike out all after "personal," in the second line, down to "purposes," in the third line, and all after the word "taxation" in the fourth line. 1606 CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION 31ONDAY, TEAS. Abbott, Allen of Crfd. Bayne, Church, Cody' Cross, Cummings,, Eldredge, Forman, Fox, WAYS. Anderson, Benjamin Bromwell, Browning, Bryan, Buxton Camero, English, Fuller, Gamble'fL'k, Haines ]Elay, Medill, Peirce, Poa e, f3nyger, Springer,,, 'Tincher, Truesdale, Tubbs, Underwood, Vandeventer, Washburn-23. ABSENT, OR NOT VOTING. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. taxes shall occur but once in the year. I have no objection, howeve, to inserting the word' time." The PRESIDENT. The question is on the amendment to the amendment of. fered by the gentleman from Madison -Mr. Springer.] Mr. HAY. Mr. President: As to these sales, it may be as to parties appearing and objecting to judgment, that the judgment, as respects their property, may not be obtained at the same time that judgment is obtained vith respect to the balance. Appeals are frequently prosecuted to the supreme court, or the case may be continued from one term to another. Now, is it the effect of this provision, to continue the sale of the whole list of property until judgment shall flUally be obtained against the whole property, or is a sale insisted on in cases of that sort when judgment is postponed-in cases where there are objections, and the court is from term to term considering them? It may be proper to provide so that judgment may be rendered at the same time that judgment is upon the general list. I am afraid of embarrassments of that sort arising, and we thought best to leave it in general terms, as provided in the section. The PRESIDENT. The question is u ponad the amendment offered by the gentleman from DuPage [Mr. Cody]. Mr. MEDILL. Mr. President: I would lik e t o hear the amendn ment offered by th e gentleman from Madison [Mr. Springer] read. T he Secretary read the amendment offered by Mr. Springer, as follows: Add t o th e end of section five, the following: "And suc h sales shall not be made oftener t han onc e i n each year, and only at such time as shall be fixed by general law." Mr. MEDILL. Mr. President: I shall support that very readily. We are cursed by t his continual selling out a man's property for taxes. Mr. HAINESe, of Cook. Mr. President: What would be the effect of striking out, as proposed? The PRESIDENT. The Secretary will rea d the section as it will stand, if the wor ds are st ricken out as proposed by the gentleman from DuPage [Mr. C ody]. The Secretary read section five, with the amendm e nt offered by Mr. Cody, as follows: SEC. S. The General Assembly shall provide, in all cases where it mayr be necessary to sell real estate for the non-payment of taxes or special assessments, for State, county, municioal,.or other purposes, that a return of such unpaid taxes or assessments shall be made to some general officer of the county having authority to receive State and county taxes; and there shall be no sale of said property for any of said taxes or ~assessmerits, but by said officer, upon the order or judgment of some court of record, and such sales shs.ll not be made oftener than once ill each year. The amendment offered by Mr. Cody was not agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question recurs on the amendment offered by the gentleman from Madison [.Mr. Springer]. The yeas and nays were ordered, and being taken, resulted —yeas, 28, nays, 20 -as follows: Brown, Neece, Wall, Coolbaagh, Perley, Wells, Craig, Pillsbury, Wendling, Dement, Poage, Wheaton. Ellis, Rice, M-. Prc:-dent-33. So the motion of Mr. Vandeveiter, to lay upon the table the amendment o(ffered by Mr. Springer, was not agreed to. The PRESiDEN T. The question is upon the amendment. The yeas and nays were ordered. Mr. BUXTON. Mr. President: I move to amend the amendment by insert ing "three" instead of "four." Mr. HAINES, of Cook. Mr. President: I would like to read a letter addressed to me on this subject of redemption from tax sales, by a gentleman who has had thirty ears experience in these matters. uir. HAY (in his seat). Is he an agent of non-residents? Mr. HAINES, of Cook. No, sir; he is an agent of nobody. CHICAGO, April 25th, 1870. Hon. John C. Haines: DEAR SIR:-You are aware that taxes are now a serious matter to the tax-payers, and it is extremely desirable that every thing should be done that will lessen the burden and make it more bearable, and at the same time meet the necessities of the revenue law. In view of this I beg to make the following suggestions: First-That the time of redemption of property sold on tax sales, shall be four years inst ead o f two, as it now stands. Second-Tha t pers ons purchasing tax-certificates be allowed twenty five per cent. per annum, for each year or part o f year for th e time the certificates have run. Under the present Con stitution tax purchasers receive double th e amount of ta x sale for however short a time the certi fic ate s m ay h ave run. Only a very short time since it be came necessary to re deem from a S tate and county tax-sale which was made in September last, an d the b est we could do with the holder of the certificates was seventy-five per cent. This, for a few months was a terrible burden, and more especially as i t was an oversight. Third-Would i t not be much better for the county or city to b eco me the purchaser of delinquent taxes? Twenty-fiveer per cent. per annum would be sufficient guaran tee for the certainty of collection, and that is really all the State or city requires. It works well in other States, (Michigan, Iowa, and Missouri, we now call to mind who collect in this way). It certainly is not desirable for the State, county, or city to aid or assist some knave to get the property of any citizen who by neg lect, oversight or want of knowledge has al lowed his property to be sold for delinquent taxes. This morning Mr. Keep wes telling us of a poor man whose lot was sold for three dollars, the time of redemption run out, a tax dleed was issued, and he had to pay five dundred dollars to have it set back in his name. Had the State or city authorities held the certificates he could have paid the fine and had it all settled. Fourth —It is desirable that when a taxpayer offers to pay his taxes and the collector gives him a receipt for the same, it shall be in full of all taxes for the year expressed in said receipt. It happened in three separate cases last year, we offered to pay all taxes general or special. The collector assured us there was nothing more, that our receipt contained everything there was against the property. It turned out, however, he had omitted some special taxr; the property was sold at tax-ale and we have had to redeem it at a heavy expense. It is not possible for the taxpayer to know what is in the collector's books. ShoJuld a sale take place after a receipt has been given to the property owner orhis agent, the exhibition of the same to the comptroller, or other proper officer, should be sufficient to cancel the sale. As a matter of justice to the State, county or city, the tax could be carried ibrward to the next year. It is regarding this longer time, I desire to speak to it. :My friend and colleague, upon my left [Mr. Medill], I remember went home, this Allen of Alx'n,Ellis, Allen of Cwfd, Fuller, Anthony, Goodhue, Archer, Hanna, Atkins, Harwood, Bowman, Hayes, Brown, King, Buxton, McCoy, Cary, Moore, Coolbaugh, Neece, Craig, Perley, Dement, Pillsb,ury, So the amendment offered by Mr. Sprin ger was agreed to. The PRESIDENT. If there ar e no further amendment s to be proposed to the section, it will be declared adop ted. The ques tion is Upon s ec t ion six, and the Secretarv will read. The Secretary read s e ction six, asifollows: SEC6. 6. T he right of redemption from all sales of real estate, for the noni-payment of taxes, or special a s sessment s of a ny character whatever shall exist in favor owners and persons int erested in such real estate for a period of not less than two years from such sales thereof. And the General Assembly shall provide, by law, for reas onable notice to be givento tahe owners or parties interested, by publica tion o r oth erwis e, of the fact of the sale of the property for such taxes or assessments, a nd when the time of redemption shall expire. Mr. SPRINGER. Mr. President: I offer an amendment to this section: Strike out the word "two," in the third line, and insert in lieu thereof the word "four." Mr. VANDEVENTER. Mr. President: I move to lay the amendment on the table. Mr. CAMERON. I call for the yeas and nays on that, Mr. President. The yeas and nays were ordered, and, being taken, resulted-yeas, 17; nays, 32 -as follows: ALBSENT, OR NOT VOTING. Allen of Alex.,Hanna Robinson, Allen of Crlfd, Harwood, Scholfield, Anthony, Hayes, Skinner, Archer, King, Sutherland, Atkins McXCoy, Tubbs, Bowman, Moore, Underwood, MAY 2, 1870, 16,07 Bromwell, Medill, Cameron, Merriam, Cross, Parker,' Forman, Peirce, Gamble, Poage, Goodell, Sedgwick, Haines ofcook, Tinclier, Ttibbs, Wagner, Wait, Whiting, Wright-28. NAYS. English, Fox, Hankins, Hay, McDowell, Parks, Ross, Benjamin, BroWDiDg, Bryan, Chureh, Cody cumlings, Eldredge, Sharp, Truesdale, Turner, Vaindeventer, Washburn, Wilson-20. ABSENT, OR NOT VOTING. . Rice, Robinson, Scholfield, Skinner, Sutherland, Underwood, Wa W c iiii.1, Wendling, Wheaton, Mr. President-35. TIMA.S. Ilay, McDowell, Ror,,-, SharT). Sher'jil, Snyder, Browning, Cary, Cummings, Eldredge, English, Fuller, Tincher, Truesdale, Vandeventer, Washburu, Wright-17. NAYS. Forman, Parker, F X, Parks, Gamble, Peirce. Goodell, Sedgwick, Haines of ConkSpringer, Haines of LakeTurn,6r. Hankins, Wagnei, Hart, W"i" HildrUD. Whiting, Medill,'' Wilson-32. Merriam, Abbott, Anderson, Bayne, Benjamin, Bromwell, Bryan, Buxton, Cameron, Church, Cody, Cross, YEAS. Abbott, Haines ofLake,Sherrill, Anderson, Hart, Snyder, Bayne, Rfld', Springer, rup 160 COSIUINLCOY-1~MR chance to speak on this subject, again, e before it is disposed of. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the adoption of the amendment of the gentleman from Clinton [MIr. Buxton], to the amendment of the gentleman from Madison [Mr. Sprinrger]. The question will be divided, and the vote first taken upon striking out. Mr. BUXTON. Mr. President: I move a further division of the question, and that the question be first taken upon striking out the word "four." A division was ordered. The Convention divided, when, there being eighteen in the affirmative and twenty in the negative, the motion of Mr. Buxton to strike "four" out from the amendment offered by Mr. Springer was not agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the adoption of the amendment to strike out "two" and insert "four." Mr. CUMYIlNGS. I call for a division. The PRESIDENT. The question is on the motion to strike out "twvo" from the third line of section six Mr. GOODELL. I hope the motion will not prevail. We have just arrived at a point in our section of country, where we can collect taxes "promptly." The largest land-holders are often dilatory and delinquent in payment of taxes. The poor people or small land-holders generally pay very promptly. If we give four years to redeem, the taxes cannot be collected at all. The yeas and nays were ordered. Mr. UNDERWOOD. Mr. President: Our people are accustomed to the two years law, and unless there are strong reasons, it should not be changed. I fear that this proposed change will operate chiefly in favor of wealthy men, who can use their money for speculation and make profit by not paying their taxes. It will also operate in favor of non-residents who do not pay their taxes. As has been said, poor men usually pay their taxes promptly, but the difficulty is to collect taxes from non-residents and large land owners. It is also well known that proceedings for the collection of taxes are usually irregular, if not absolutely void. There are only two cases-it is said by an emi nent writer on tax titles-where tax titles have been held good —so much particularity is required. Hence this delay would enable these persons who re fuse to pay their taxes, not only to mitigate tax titles, if they choose to do so, but to, if on examination they find the tax titles correct, and the laws strictly complied with, keep the public from the funds necessary to carry on the government. USE OF HALL. Mr. BRYAW. Mr. President: I wish t o offer the following resolution. The Secretary read the resolution, offered by Mr. Bryan, as follows: -Resolved, That the use of this hall be tentered to Mr. James T. Dwyer, of the State agricultural department, to deliver a lecture on Tuesday evening at seven o'clock, May 3d, 1870, on the "Past, Present and Future Glories of the State of Illinois." Mr. BRYAN. Mr. President: Mr. Dwyer is a gentleman of intelligence, well known to all the citizens of this State. His lecture is prepared with care, and I have no doubt that we all shall be glad to hear it. The resolution was agreed to. REVENUE. The PRESIDENT. The questi on is on st riking out from the third line of the sixth section, the word "two," and inserting "four." The Secretary read section six, as fol lows: SE.c. 6. The right of redemption from all sales of real estate for the non-payment of taxes or special assessments of any character whatever, shall exist in favor of owners and persons interested in such real estate, for a period of not less than two years from such sales thereof. And the General Assembly shall provide by law for reasonable notice to be given to the owners or parties interested' by publication or otherwise, of the fact of the sale of the property for such taxres or assessments, and when the time of redemption shall expire. Mr. MEDILL. Mr. President; Are amendments in order? The PRESIDENT. An amendment is not now in order. It will become so, when the pending question has been disposed of. The yeas and nays were ordered, and, being taken, resulted-yeas 20, nays 25as follows: YEAS. Haines ofCook,Parker, Haines of Lake, Sedgwick, Hankins, Springer, Hart, Turner Hildrup, Wagner Medill, Wilson-20. Merriam, Gentlemen may laugh, but here is a list of spe cial a ssessments, levied in our city, for 1869 five hundred and seventythree special assessments. There they are, three sheets full. That does not include city, c ounty, town and park taxes, or she ordinary city taxes at all. When we go to our collector, and ask him to make out a receipt for a given piece of property-I do not care if it is only a lot twenty feet squale —he does not know anything more about whether he has given you a receipt in full for all the charges upon that property than the man in the moon. He cannot know it, from the multiplicity of books that we have there, and the number of volumes that he has to look over to ascertain that fact. The taxpayer of the large cities, at least, requires some protection additional to what the law gives him now. And, as our municipalities increase in number, in population, and in the diversity of interests and industries within their boundaries, taxes will increase and multiply, and special assessments will increase and multiply. Mr. CARY. Mr. President: Is the gentleman from Cook [Mr. Medill] one of the poor men that the gentleman from Cook [Mr. Haines] wishes to relieve? ]Mr. HAINES, of Cook. No, sir. I was about remarking, Mr. President, that, whether it is specially in the interest of a majority of the gentlemen upon this floor to put further safeguards around these tax sales and redemption from tax sales, it may be in the interest of their children and children's children, at all events, for them to do so. I think it will be in the interest of those who are to come after us —those who are to live in the great number of municipalities that we will embrace within the borders of our State, within the next twenty-five years-municipalities that will be powerful, not only in their population, but powerful in their wealth, in their industries, in their influences upon each other and upon other sections- of our common country. We are not legislating here for the present. We are not making a Con stitution for to-day. We are making it for the next quarter of a century; and we must look at the State as it will then be, not as it now is, or as it was in the time past, when we were entirely an agriculturai and a rural people, had few municipalities within our borders, and paid small taxes. Now, what are the facts? Beginning with the city of Chicago, multiplying taxes in every direction, we find, ont examination-to show how these things have increased upon us — beginning with Chicago twenty years ago, that our taxes were, fcor general city pulrposes, eightyfour cents per head. That did not include our State and county taxes; but those were very small. We had no special assessments. [Here the hammer fell.] ["4Go on." "Object.}}] Mr. HA/NES, of Cook. I will get a Allen of Crfd.,Forman, Browning, Fuller, Bryan, Goodell, Buxton, Hay, Cary, McCoy. Cross, Ross, Cummings, Sharp, Eldredge, Sherrill, English, ABBSENT, OR NO, Allen of Alex.,Goodhue, Anthony, Hanna, Archer, Harwood, Atkins, Hayes, Bowman, King, Bromwell, McDowell, Brown, Moore, Church, Neece, Coolbaugh, Parks, Craig, Perley, Dement, Peirce, Ellis, Pillsbury, Gamble, Poage, ADJOURNMENT. Mr. BROMWELL. I move that the Convention do now adjourn. The motion was agreed to. So the Convention (at twelve o'clock and twenty-four minutes) adjourned. So the motion of Mr. Springer to strike out "two" was not agreed to. Mr. MEDILL. I desire to offer the following amendm e nt. The Secretary read the amendment offered by Mr. Medill, as follows: Insert after the word "thereof" in the fourth line, the words, " and the penalty for delia quency in the payment of taxes shall not ex ceed twenty-five per cent. a year." AFTERNQON SESSION. MONDAY, May 2, 1870 The Convention met at two o'clock rp M., and was called to order by the Presi. dent. 1608 CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION ITONDAY) winter, with the design Of PayiDg his taxes. He assured me, on his return, that, he had paid all his taxes-at least, he tried to;.and yet, I find, in looking over this voluminous list of property advertised for tax sale, for the city of Chicago, that'my friend is put down as not having paid his taxes. His property is all adver-: tised for sale [Laughter.] Abbott, Anderson, Bayne, Benjamin, Cameron, Cody, Fox, NAYS. Tincher, Truesdale, Tubbs. Under' ood, Vaudeventer, Washburn, WhitiDg Wright-25. VOTING. Rice, Robinson, Scholfield, Snyder, Skinner, Sutherland, wait, Wall, Wells, Wendling, Wheaton, Mr. Preisideu38. MAY 2, 1870. DEBATES AND PRO()EEDI~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~GS. 1609~~~~~~~~~ tional Convention against these cut-throat penalties on their property. I presume there are many gentlemen on this floor who have similar experiences among their own constituencies. Twenty-five per cent., in my judgment, will accomplish all that the law requires. More than that, is unrighteous, oppres sive and unjustifiable. Mr. FULLER. Mr. President: I think the amendment offered by the genrt tleman from Cook [Mr. Medill] would be a good one, provided it were so worded that twenlty-five per cent. should be add ed at the time of the sale. I think the way it is now worded, it would, in effect, only be loaning money at twenty-five per cent. interest, with the privilege to the owner of the land of taking it up at any time; and if taken up in a short time, the pay to the purchaser would amount to nothing. There should be twenty-five per cent. added at the time of the sale, and twenty-five per cent. more at the ex piration of the year, to induce persons to purchase at tax sales. Mr. MEDILL. I am willing to accept any amendment that will make the amend ment clearer, if that be necessary, but I submitted it to several legal gentlemen on the floor, who think it clear and per spicuous in its present shape. It does not read "at the rate of twen ty-five per cent.," but twenty-five per cent. a year. Mr. FULLER. If that is the construc tion to be put upon it, it is, perhaps, all right, but I would prefer to have it word ed differently. Mr. HAINES, of Lake. Mr. President: I think the amendment is in the language of the same provision in most all the West er n States. The idea that a private citi zen shall bid off lands and derive the benefit of the penalty proposed, is not exactly the correct principle upon which these sales should be conducted. The public should be the purchasers, and we should not encourage these individual speculations. If twenty-five per cent. is to be the penalty, the public should have the benefit of it. I vote for the amendment with the view that the treasury may have the benefit of it. I hold lands, myself, in several other of the western States, and this is the pro vision they have-twenty five per cent. penalty, the benefits to always go to the public. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the amendment proposed by the gentleman from Cook [Mr. Medill]. A division was ordered. The Convention divided, when, there being thirty in the affirmative, the amendment offered by Mr. Medill was agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the section' as amended. Mr. ROSS. Mr. President: I move to strike out the section and insert section four of the Constitution of 1848. I do so for two reasons; one is, the people have become accustomed to the operation of section four of the old Constitution, and there has been no complaint in relation to its operation. And, secondly, it requires, by sufficient provision, that personal no — tice shall be given to personsin occupancy - of land sold for taxes, which the art-cle under consideration does not. I think it would be more satisfactory to the people to have section four of theold Constitution, and I move that as a t substitute. Tile PRESIDENT. Will the gentle man from Ful ton [Mr. Ross] send the ar ticle to the Secretary's desk? The Secretary read the substitute of fered by Mr. Ross, as follows: SEC. 4. Hereafter no purchaser of any land or town lot at any sale of lands or town lots for taxes due, eithe r to this Sta te or an y county, or incorporated town or city within the same, or at any sale for taxes or levies authorized by the laws of this State, shall be entitled to a deed for the lands or town lots so purchased, until he or she shall have com plied with the following conditions, to-wit: Such purchaser shall serve or cause to be served, a written notice of such purchase on every person in possession of such land or town lot, three months before the expiration of the time of redemption on such sale; in which notice he shall state when he purchased the land or town lot, the description of the land or lot he has purchased, and when the time of redemption will expire. In like man ner he shall serve on the person or persons in whose name or names such land or lot is taxed a similar written notice, if such person or persons shall reside in the county where such land or lot shall be situated; and in the event that the person or persons in whose name or names the land or lot is taxed, do not reside in the county, such purchaser shall publish such notice in some newspaper printed in such county; and if no newspaper is printed in the county, then the nearest newspaper that is published in this State, to the county in which such lot or land is situated; which notice shall be inserted three times; the last time not less than three months before the time of redemption shall expire. Every such purchaser, by himself or agent, shall, before he shall be entitled to a deed, make an affida vit of his having complied with the conditions of this section, stating particularly the facts relied on as such compliance; which affidavit shall be delivered to the person authorized by law to execute such tax deed, and which shall by him be filed with the officer having custody of the records of lands and lots sold for taxes, and entries of redemption in the county where such land or lot shall lie, to be by such officer entered on the records of his office, and carefully preserved among the files of his office; and which record or affidavit shall be prima facie evidence that such notice has been given. Any person swearing falsely in such affidavit shall be deemed guilty of perjury, and punished accordingly. In case any person shall be compelled, under this section, to publish a notice in a newspaper, then, before any person may have a right to redeem such land or lot from such tax sale shall be permitted to redeem, he or she shall pay the officer or person who by law is authorized to receive such redemption money, the printer's fee for publishing such notice, and the expenses of swearing or affirming to the affidavit, and filing the same. Mr. HAINES, of Lake. I move to amend by striking out only that portion of the section after the word "thereof," in line four. Sir. ALLEN~, of Crawford. ~]r. President. I hope this section will not be stricken out. By it the General Assembly are required to provide for purchasers of tax titles giving notice. They are certainly capable of doing this as well as we. I am opposed to inserting the section just read from the Constitution of 1848, as it is inserting a ten minutes' speech into the Constitution. Mr.~ ROSS. Mr. President: Before this constitutional revision of 1848 there was no law requiring personal notice to the occupants of the land, and, judging by the past, there is no certainty that We will have it in future unless wve insert it in the Constitution. Mr. TURNER. Mr. President: I hope this section will not be stricken out: As it stands, it requires the General Assembly to mnake provision for giving notice. Our present Constitution does not meet the wants of the people. To illustrate —there is an addition to Mr. MEDILL. I feel a good deal more interest in the adoption of this amend ment than in the extension of the time for the redemption of delinquent proper ty. The present law inflicts a penalty of 100 per cent. on the delinquent, although that delinquency may not be for longer than a week or a month. Nothing less than 100 per cent. is satisfactory. I am doubtful whether the delinquent tax laws of any State in the Union per mit so heavy a penalty. It is the most Shylock-like provision, perhaps, on the statute book of any State in the Union. It seems to me that twenty-five per cent. per annum is abundantly sufficient to effect the purpose which the law has in view, and that is the collection of the tax an inducement to persons to buy the property to pay the tax. Twenty-five per cent. is more than two per cent. per month. It will in practice amount to fifty per cent. a year, for we all know that as soon as an owner of a tract of land or lot is notified that his proper ty has been sold for taxes, and that a tax title is beginning to run against it, that a cloud upon the title already exists, a vast majority. of people, nine out of ten, hasten to relieve the property of this incumbrance-and the purchaser at a tax sale, loses no time in notifying the owner that he has bought the property, in order to have his money repaid, at the earliest possible moment. So that, as a matter of fact, twenty-five per cent. a year for delinquency will amount to fifty per cent. interest to the purchaser. But even if it only amounted to twenty-five per cent., there can be found in this State plenty of men who will buy, at twenty-five per cent. penalty, ten times all the property that ever will be offered at tax sales. There are usur ers enough in my own city to purchase all the property that will be offered for sale for taxes, anywhere in Illinois, for twenty-five per cent. Very few men can make much more than ten per cent. on their money. Here the security is absolute-first class security-and twenty five per cent. is an immense usury. Many of the States allow only fifteen to twenty per cent., and have no trouble whatever in finding purchasers for all the delinquent property offered for sale for taxes. But the 100 per cent. shave is creating in all our cities and large counties a class of men who may be denominated "land sharks," or Shylocks, who lie in wait for these delinquent lauds, who go in partnlership with the county treasurer and city collectors to sell out every piece of land that can possibly be got on to a delinquent list, for the sake of this exorbitant and wrongful delinquent tax; and such is the influence, at this time, of that class of blood-letters, that the Legislature has refused, year after year, to make any modification of the 100 per cent. These men have sufficient influence in every Legislature to prevent any reduction of the 100 per cent scalping operation, and, if it were a thousand per cent., they would prevent its being repealed. I hope, in the interest of justice and right, that the property of resident and non-reK ident wealthy men, or poor widows, will be relieved froml this very serious oppressive evil. I never go home to mny city but Imeet many citizens who anxitously ask me whether any relief can be expected at the hands of the Constitu~ 403 DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. MAY 2, 1870. 1609 , k CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION pied, then the notice is given by newspaper publication. Thus the owner has a full opportunity of paying his taxes, avoiding litigation and saving his title. There are a good many words in the act of 1847, but I believe it has met with the general approbation of the farmers, and mnen who are not business men, and are likely to be a little careless sometimes in the manner of paying their taxes. We all know that collecting officers are exceedingly negligent when they are pressed in collecting, in noting upon each tract that the tax has been paid upon that tract, and that thereby the owners are freqaently put to a great deal of trouble. It is a very excellent provision, and I do not think that we should hesitate, although it is tolerably long, to put it in the new Constitution. The provision in the section now proposed, is very vague and general. Ic gives the General Assembly power to provide that reasonable notice shall be given to the owner or parties interested,by publication or otherwise. Now, sir, publication would be very poor notice, as there are a great many men who do not take a newspaper, and may not take the paper having the notice. The provision in the Constitution of 1848 is much more specific. The Legislature might be filled with tax-title speculators, and the farmers of the community might be preju.diced by the legislation which would follow this sixth section. I hope, therefore, that the motion of the gentleman from Fulton [Mr. Ross] will be agreed to, and that section four of the Constitution of 1848 will be retained in place of section six. The PRESIDENT. The question is on the amendmejt offered by the gentleman from Cook [Mr. Medill]. The amendment was agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon striking out and inserting the substitute, as amended. The yeas and nays were ordered, and being taken, resulted-yeas, 24, nays, 25 -as follows: T he PRESIDENT. The question is upon the adoption of the eighth section. The Secretary read section eight, as follows: SEc. 8. The General Assembly shall have no power to release or discharge any county, city, township, town or district whatever, or the inhabitants thereof, or the prop erty therein, f ro m their proportionate sh are of taxes to be levied for State purposes, n or shall cou mutation for such taxes be authorize d in any form whatsoever. Mr. ALLEN, of Crawford. M. Pres id ent: I m ove to strike out that section, and desire to givepthe reasons that induce are to make the motion. I propose to make a statement to the Conven tion. There is, in the c o unty in which I live, a large body of land which is annually overflowed by the river to s uch an extent that its cultivation, in four years out of five, is rendered impossible, but our people believe that they can so levee the r iv. er as to reclaim t hese lands, (f which there are thousands of acres. They have had a pet scheme in their minds for some time, by which they propose to ask the General Assembly to relieve them for one or two years, from the payment of the State taxes, that they may apply them to leveeing the river and reclaiming those waste lands. I know that is a matter which they regard as of the first im. portance, and if it should be the pleasure of the Convention not to place such a limit in this Constitution as would preclude the aid which they desire and seek, they will be very much gratified. I do not propose to commit myself to the correctness of the opinions entertain. ed upon the subject of the propriety of such limitations. Mr. TURNER. Mr. President: I hope the section will not be stricken out. If there is a work to be executed in which the State has an interest, I desire that it be carried on by direct appropriation from the treasury, not by an indirect made of remitting or releasing the State taxes. Why, sir, at the rate at which we have been going on lately, it will very soon come to pass that a few counties in the State will be compelled to bear almost the entire burdens of the State taxes. I do wish, without entering into an argument upon this subject, to say that if a matter of sufficient importance should arise, the State can make an appropriation, and that if it is not of sufficient importance, the people in that section ought not to be relieved from this payment of their State taxres, and thus be permitted, indirectly, to appropriate what properly belongs to the State, to their private advantage. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the motion to strike out section eight. Mr. HAINES, of Cook. Mr. President: I call for the yeas and nays. The yeas and nays were ordered, and, being taken, resulted —yeas 11, nays 87 -as follows: t he city of Freeport, conta ining several hundred lots. T h at addition was mtine. I laid it out, and it was called' Turner's North Additio,n." I sold all imy interest in it long ago. For the last four or five years, I have attempted to have those lot s chang ed on th e ass essme nt books, from my name to the names of the owners and occupants; but I get some two or three hundred notices every year, of these lots h aving been sold for taxeslots in which I have not had a particle of interest for five or six years; yet the law is complied with a, by notice being give n to me, because the lots,are assessed in my name. I know the fact, that changes a re not always m ade when the lands are sold, and that the notice is given to parties not interested. The General Assembly might provide, by law, that where a party disavows ownership, the notice shall be given to the next owner. Mr. ROSS. Tax deeds against an individual in possession, without proof of personal notice, would be good for nothing. Mr. TURNER. I grant that, but a large portion of these lots are owned by persons who do not live upon them. Mr. MEDILL. Mr. President: My motion is that the amendment I offered to section six, be made to this section (or to section four of the old Constitution), to follow the last line of the section, coming in after the word "same." Mr. UNDERWOOD. Mr. President: This provision in the Constitution of 1848 is one of very great importance to the tax payers of the State. In 1847, an act of the Legislature, similar in purport, was adopted. It struck the Convention of 1847, shortly after it met, with so much force that they concluded to put it in the Constitution. I know something of the origin of that ,provision. ID the county in which I reside a certain man had paid his taxes and taken a receipt. The base line runs through the county. His receipt was by mistake for land south instead of north of the base line, and though he had paid his taxes, he was subjected t) a great deal of litigation in order to defend against the tax title to his land. The case went up to the supreme court and elicited a good deal of remark. It frequently occurs that a party who has many tracts of land, fails by mistake to pay fo~r every tract. There are other cases where the party or his ageat neglects to pay the taxes. The object of the section was to give notice, as far as practicable, to the owner within three mouths beforeo the time of xedemption expired, so that he can re.deem and avoid litigation about the title o)f his land, as well as save his land, in case the tax title should not turn out to be perfect. Now, it will be seen that the fourth section of the Constitution of 1848, at though it is a little elaborate, is very well drawn. It provides in the first place that the notice shall be given to every pf~rson in possession of land sold for taxes. Now, sometimes there is a tenant in possession, and if so, he swould be likely to notify the owner, and the redemptionx to be mnade. In case the land is lasted in the name of ally person that may not he in possession, notice is to be given him, in case he is in the cou, ty. If it is the land of a non-resident, and unoccu Abbott, Bryan, Cameron, Cross, Cummings, English, Forman, Fox, YEAS. Allen of Crfd, Cummings, Anderson, English, Bayne, Foi man, Browning, Ross, So the motion of Mr. Ross, to strike out section six, was not agreed to. Section six, as amended, was agreed to. NAYnS. Goosdell, Peire,e Hain es of Cook,Sedgw ick, HEaines of L'k.,Sherrill, HaElkins, Snryder, Ilart, Springer, 1610 31OND.L-71' TRA.S. Fuller, Sedgwick, Gamble, Sharp, Haines of Colk,Underwood, Haines of Lake,, Wagner, l' Hankins, wait, mccov WeDdl!Dg, . I Park,s, I Whiting, Ross, Wilson-24. NA6YS. Peirce, Sherrill, Snyder, Springer, Truesdale, Tnbbs, Turner,. Washburn-25. Allen of Crlfd,Cody, Anderson, Goodell, Baype Hart, Benjamin, Hay, Bromwell, Hildrup, Brow-D!Dg, Medill, Buxton, Merriam, Cary, Parker, Church, A.BSENT, OR NOT VOTING. Allen of Alex,Ha-una, Anthony, Harwood, Archer, Hayes, Atkins, Kine, Bowman, McDowell Brown, Moore Coolbaugh, Neece, Craig, Perley, Dement, Pillsbury, Eldredge, Poage, Ellis, Rice, Goodhue, Robins-on, Scholfi —.1d, Skinn,L-r, Sutherland, I Tineber, Vaudeventer, Wall, Wells, Wheaton, Wriixht. Mr. Pretiident4. Sharp, Washburn, Wilson-11. Abbott, Bt-,njamin, Bi-ol-Dwell, B.-yan, Buxton, DEBATES As)ND PROCEEDINGS. C t - tion, to, by any provision in the Constitu tion, deprive them of any such vested rights. If this section should be adopted, such things as "tax steals" will be unlawful hereafter. Mr ROSS. That is, meaning the law of 1869. [Laughter]. Mr. HAINES, of Cook. I would like to inquire of the mover what his intention was when he made the motion to commit? Mr. SHARP. So that it would not affect the law of 1869. The yeas and nays were ordered. The Secretary proceeded to call the roll. Mr. HAINES, of Cook (when his name was called) said: Mr. President: If this is not referred, do we have a chance to vote upon it? The PRESIDENT. If it shall not be re ferred, the question will recur upon its adoption. Mr. UNDERWOOD (when his name was called said) said: Mr. President: That law of 1869 was passed, I under stand, for a valuable consideration and the consideration was paid. I feel like letting it stand. I vote "Aye." The result was then announced-yeas, Hay, Hildrup, McCoy, Medill, Merriam, Parker, Parks, Allen of Alx'n, Hanna, Anthony, Harwood, Archer, Hayes, Atkins, King, Bowmnan, McDowell Brown, Moore, Coolbaugh, Neee, Craig, Perley, Dement, Pillsbury, Eldredge, Poage, Ellis, Rice, Goodhue, Robinson, So the-motion of Mr. Allen, of Crawford, to strike out section eight was not agreed to. The PRESIDENT. Are there amend. ments to be proposed to the section? If not, it will be declared adopted. The question is on section nine. The Secretary read section nine, as follows: SEC. 9. All taxes l evied for State purposes shall be paid into the State treasury. Mr. HAINES, of Lake. I move the previous question. Th e PRESIDENT. It will be declared adopted. The question is on section t en, repo rt ed by the standing committee, and stricken out by Committee o f the Whole. The Secretary read section ten, as follows: SEi. 10. All a ppropriation s of the State revenue shall be a lefr-om th e rev enue fund in general, contained in the State treasury, and no appropriation ot the tax collected or to be collected from any locality or district, or any designated property or source of revenue, shall ever be made. Mr. SHARP. I move to commit section ten to the Committee on Finance. Mr. PEIRCE. I hope the motion will not prevail. It seems to me this is an important section —one of the most imtant in the article-and ought to be engrafted into the Constitution. The purpose of the committee in recommending that section, was to avoid the evil which has heretofore risen of making appropriations indirectly, which would not bear investigation and could not stand upon their own merits. If retained, it will require that appropriations, made for specific purposes, shall be made directly from the treasury, instead of appropriating an indefinite sum from some particular source -of revenue, which, of course, must be somewhat uncertain and indefinite in its amount. : Propositions have thus been passed through the Legislature which, perhaps, would not have been passed on their own merits, if the Constitution had required appropriations from the treasury for a specific amount. A number of such acts are now in force, and large sumsof money are now annually diverted from the St,, te treasury for the benefit of certain locali -ties. -This has grown to be a serious evil, and ought to be checked by the Constitution. Mr. ROSS. Would it have the effect of repeali,ig the law of 1869? Mr. PEIRCE, I suppose the gentleman is lawyer enough to know that, so Oar as counties or t,wns have acquired rights lunder any law of this State, it is not within the province of this ConvtL — might derive from building their railroads, under the law of 1869, I insist that justi(ne requires they shall have the benefit of the contract. Mr. HAINES, of Cook. Mr. President: I understand the g entleman sai d Chicago had received $800,000. I would l'ke to kncow w hat it i s in. Mr. WASHBURN. Well, Mr. Presi - dent, I do not know, for I was not there when the $800,000 was paid. I supp ose it was in money. Mr. HAINES, of Cook. What for, Mr. President? Mr. WASHBURN. Mr. President: I do not know, but I suppose in consideration of the railroad law of 1869 for the improvement of the different counties of the State. Mr. HAINES, of Cook. Mr. President: I do not know any benefit that we have received. Mr. WASHBURN. The lake front measure, Mr. President, in which $800,000 was appropriated to Chicago. Mr. HAI NES, of Cook. Chicago was opposed to that, Mr. President. Mr. WASHBURN. Then I suppose it was because shle did not get$1,600,000 instead of $800,000. Mr. President: Chicago did not seem to be opposed to it at the time. And if it has got a bad bargain, it should stand by it, instead of showinDg a disposition to back down from it. That is all. Mr. WHITING. Mr. President: I wish t- disclaim entirely any swapping off with reference to this bill. Mr. WASHBURN. Mr. President: The gentltoman did so a great while ago for himself, but can he disclaim for others? But I do not care, sir; it is not right for this Convention, or any other body of men, to attempt to break up this contract after one party has received the benefit of it. And, so far as that law is concerned, there is no loss to the State involved in it. Haines,of CookSedgwick, Haines of L'ke,Sherrill, Hart, Snyder, Hay, Springer, Hildrup, Tubbs, McCoy, Turner, Mtdill, Wagner, Parker, Wait,-26. Peirce, Allen, of Alx. Goodhue, Rice, Aonthony, Hanna, Robinson, Archer, Harwood, Scholfield, Atkins, Hayes, Skinner, Bowman, King, Sutherland, Brown, McDowell, Tincher, Coolbaugh, Moore, Vandeventer, Craig, Neece, Wall, Dement, Perley, Wells, uEldredge, Pillsbury, Wheaton, Ellis, Poage, Mr. President-34. Gamble, So the motion of Mr. Sharp, to refer section ten to the Committee upon Finance, was not agreed to. Mr. WASHBURN. Mr. President: I hope that this section will not be adopted. If all the reasons urged in favor of the protection of these counties or the State, by the gentleman from Grundy [Mr. Peirce], be true, section eight, that we have just adopted, is amply sufficient w foer the protection of their interests; and there can be but one other reason for adopting section ten-to repeal the force and effect of the "steal law" of 1869, as gentlemen are pleased to call it. And here I wish to make one remark, and that is, that if it is a steal law, or stealage law, I wish to remind gentle men of a homely adage, that there should at least be "honor among thieves;" and that while Chicago gets $800,000, and the canal gets $400,000 in exchadge f r the proposed benefit that other counties MAY 2) 1870. 1611 Cameron, Car.V, Ch,iieh, Cody, Cross, F.., Fuller, ,Qamble, Truesdale, Tubbs, Turner, Wag' ner, Wendling, Whiting, Wright-37. A.BSENT, OR NOT VOTING. Scholfl6l.d, Skinner, Sutherland, Tincher, Underwood, Vandeventer, Wait, Wall, Wells, Wheaton, Mr. President-35. 23, nays, 26-as follows: YEAS. Abbott, Englirh, ,kllen of Cwfld, Forma-n, Anderson, Fox, Bayne, Hankins, BenjaMiD, Merriam, Browning, Parks, Cody, Ross, Cummings, Sharp, NAYS. Truesdale, Underwood, Washburn, We-ndl!Dg, Whiting, Wilson Wright-23 Bromwell, Bryan, Buxton, Cameron, Cary' Cb,,rh, Cross, Fuller, Goodell, ABSENT, OR NOT VOTING. The building Of the Illinois Central railroad, aDd the effect it has had upon the price of land, aEd the UDpa,ralleled increase of taxable property which it has caused, will demonstrate to every man, that instead of iiijuridg the State or depriViDg it of taxeq, if it should remit them to a limited exteilt-for ten years-the next ten years would amply repay for all delay, because the building of railroads by each county in southern Illinois will, I say agaid, if not in the first ten years, in the IleXt ten, ircrease the taxable property in those counties and double the revenues of the State derived from that property, without one cent of cost to the, State. There is no loss, in fact, to be contemplated. For consider what is now the value of property. Real estate is not worth so miach to-day, in my county, as it was five years ago. And, in the next ten years, if railroads are not built, we may idftr property will not increase at all in value. But, if we build railroads there as we propose, the immediate increase would b-I in the neighborhood of a million of dollars. And, though the State cannot reap the benefit of that increase in the first teu years, it will in the Lext. I venture to say, that the COUD,ty I represetit, will pay o-De-third more taxes into the State treasury in twenty years, under that law, than if it should be repeated. And I suppose the same would bertha 161 UOSIUI~L(OY~I~MR tion, leaving it under the control of the gentleman from Clinton [Mr. Buxton.] Mr. BUXTON. Mr. President: Such an appropriation, if collected from any particular locality, is no appropriation of money from the State tree sury. We want to prevent the appropriation of any par ticular taxes. I move the previous ques tion. The motion for the previous question was agreed to, and the main question ordered. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the adoption of section ten. The Secretary will read the section. The Secretary read section ten, as follows: SEC. 10. All appropriations of the State revenue shall be from the revenue fund in general, contained in the State treasury; and no a pp ropriation of the tax collected or to be collected from any locality or district, or any designated property or source of revenue, shall ever be made. The yeas and nays were ordered. The Secretary proceeded to call the roll. The PRESIDENT(befol e the result was announced) said: It becomes the duty of the Chair to give a casting vote upon this question. The yeas are twenty-four and t the nays are twenty-four. The Chair does not regard the section as interfering with any appropriations that have heretofore been made from the State treasury by the act of 1869, or any other act, but as applying only to future appropriations. Regarding this as one of the best sections in the article, I will therefore vote "Aye." The result was then announced-yeas, 25; nays, 24-as follows: I des ire it should be in the new Constitution if it should be adopted in place of the old. It will prevent any county or city from repudiating any debt contracted under authority of law. It will add value to the bonds of municipal corporations in the State, and make an investment in such bonds better secured than it could be when secured by deed of trust on real estate. The] PRESIDENT. The question is upon the adoption of the section offered by the gentleman from Madison [Mr. Springer]. The yeas and nays were ordered, and being taken, resulted-yeas, 31, nays, 20, -as follows: TEAS. Abbott, Fuller, Parks, Bayne, Gamble, Peirce, Bryan, Goodell, Sherrill, Buxton, Haines of Lake,Snyder, Cameron, Hart, Springer, Cary, Hay, Turner Church, Hildrup, Underwood, Cody, McCoy, Wagner, Cross, Medill, Wait, Eldredge, Parker, Wright-31. English, 'NAYS. Allen of Crfd.,Fox, Sharp, Anderson, Haines of CookTruesdale, Benjamin, Hankins, Washburn, Bromwell, McDowell, Wending, Browning, Merriam, Whiting, Cummings, Ross, Wilson —20. Forman, Sedgwick, ABSENT, OR NOT VOTING. Allen of Alex. Hanna, Scholfield, Anthony, Harwood, Skinner, Archer, Hayes, Sutherland, Atkins, King, Tincher, Bowman, Moore, Tubbs, Brown, Neece, Vandeventer, Coolbaugh e, Pe rley, Wall, Craig, Pillsbury, Wells Dement, Poage, Wheaton, Ellis, Rice, Mr. President-3-2. Goodhue, Robinson, c as e with regard to m ost oth er counties I h ope, Mr. President, the section will not be adopted. Mr. CARY. M r. President: If the gentleman from Williamson [Mr. Wash burn] will compare his vote on sectio n one, and the vo te he pro poses to cast or section ten, I think he will find that he if tak ing a slightly sel fish view of this ques tion. In the first place, he votes that the th irty- sev en counties through which the Illinois Cenlltral railroad runs, shal no t only pay their State and count) taxes, but that the seven per cent. pai by the Illinois Central railroad compan into the State treasury, a large propor tion of which is paid by those thirty seven counties, shall n ot any part Wf it be refunded t o them, bu t shall forever re main in the State treasury. I suppose hE thinks that this and the taxes of the thirty-seven counties will nearly support the State Government. Then he wants section ten striken out and, after having refused justice to the thirty-seven counties on the Illinois Cen tral railroad, wishes to take the revenue from the counties whose taxes have been or may hereafter be commuted from the treasury, that they may use it for their own special benefit. Sir, I have no desire to release the Illi nois Central railroad. Hold it fast to the contract; but I do not see any injustice in a portion of this fund (a large part of which has been paid by those counties through which the road runs) being re, funded to those counties. The proposi. tion of the gentleman from Williamson [Mr. Washburn] is, however, to allow certain counties to retain their State tax es, and thus deprive the State of revenue to which it is properly entitled; or, at least, he is not willing that the Legisla ture should be prohibited from allowing that commutation of taxes to counties which was allowed by the General Assem bly of 1869. Mr. BUX f ON. Mr. President: I move the previous question. Mr. BROWNING. Mr. President: If the gentleman will withdraw that motion for a moment, I will renew it. Mr. BUXTON. I withdraw it. Mr. BROWNING. Mr. President: If this section is to be adopted, I think some amendment should be made. I am not favorable to it, but as it stands it is subject to a construction we might find very inconvenient hereafter. It provides that no appropriation shall ever be made of the taxes collected or to be collected from any locality or district, or any designated source of revenue. We collect all our taxes from some locality or district, and the provision is that no appropriation of those taxes shall ever be made. I do not know exactly the intention of the friends of this section, but I supposes it was to prevent special app~ropriations of taxes collected from particular localities and districts, to require them to be paid into the treasury and appropriated by general law. As the section stands the most obvious construction is one that would prevent any appropriation of taxes collected from any district or locality. I suggest that it would, perhaps, meet the views of those who prepared the section, to insert before the word "appropriation" the word "'special." I renew the call for the!~evious ques So the additional section offered by Mr. Springer was agreed to. The PRESIDENT. Are there further sections to be proposed to the article? Mr. ABBOTT. I move a reconsideration of section ten, because I voted contrary to my intention. Mr. BUXTON. I move to lay the mo tion upon the ta ble. The yeas and nays were ordered, and being taken, resulted-yeas 24, nays 27as follows: YEAS. Fuller Peirce, Goodell, Sedgwick, Haines of Cook,Sherrill, Haines of LakeSpringer, Hart, Turner, Hildrup, Wagner, Medill, Wait Parker, Mr. President-25. Goodell, Parker, Haines of C'ok,Peirce, Haines of L'ke,Sedgwick, Hart, - Sherrill, Hay, Springer, Hildrup, Tubbs, McCoy,~ Turner, Medill, Wagner-24. NAYS. Abbott, Eldredge, Allen of Cr'fd.,English, Anderson, Forman, Bayne, Fox, Benjamin, Hankins, Browning, McDowell, Bryan, Merriam, Cody, Parks, Cummings, Ross, So section ten was agreed to. Mr. SPRINGER. Mr. Pres ident: I desire to offer an additional section. The Secre t ary re ad the additional section, offered by Mr. Springer, as follows: SEC. -. The General Assembly shall require that all the taxable property within the limits of municipal corporations shall be taxed for the payment of debts contracted under authority of law; such taxes to be uniform in respect to persons and property within the jurisdiction of the body imposing the same. Mr. SPRINGER. I desire to say simply that the additional sec tion I propose is a part of the present Constitution. ABSENT. OR NOT VOTING. Allen of Alex.Hanna, Scholfield, Anthony, Harwood, Skinner, Archer, Haves, Sutherland, Atkins, Ki,ig, Tincher, Bowman, Moore, Vandeventer, Brown, Neece, Wait, Coolbaugh, Perley, Wall, Craig, Pillsbury, Wells, Dement, Poage, Wheaton, Ellis, ERice, Mr. President32. Goodhue, RRobinson, 1612 (',ONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION 31ONDAY, Abbott, Bromwell, Bryan, Buxton, Cameron, Cary, (jhiirch, Cross Eldreaz, NAYS. Allen of Crfd. Anderson, Bayne" Benjamin, Browning, Cummings$ English, Forman, Fox, Hankins, McDowell, Merriam, Parks, Ross, Sharp, Snyder, Truesdale, Tubbs, U,nder'wood, Washburn, WhitiDg, Wendlrnk, Wilson, Wright-24. YEAS. romwe,ll, uxton, meron, ary, hurch, ABSENT OR NOT Allen, of Alex. Goodhue Anthon Ha Archer, H. ga;. d, Atkins; ]Ela-v, Bowman, Hais, Brown, Kifiz" Cody, MCC16y, Coolbaugh, Moore, Cr"Ig' N eece, Dem,,.t, Perley, Ellis, Pillsry, Gamble, VOTING. Poaze, Rice, Robinson, Scholfield, Skinner, Sutherland, Tincher, Vandeventer, Wall, Wells, Wheaton-34. Sharp, Snyder, Truesdale, Underwood, Washbprn, Wendling, Whitiu —, Wiison.-' Wrighf-27. DEBATES AND PROCLE~DrNGS. nation, except for the payment of indebted lness existing at the adoption of this Consti tution, unless authorized by a vote of the peop le of the county. Mr. ANDERSON. Mr. President: As this section involves pretty much the same principle as the first section, I think it had better take the same direction. Mr. HAINES, of Cook. Mr. Presi dent: Will the gentleman first allow me to move to amend by inserting, after "county," the words "city, village or town?" Mr. CAMERON. And "school dis trict." Mr. HAINES, of Cook. Yes, sir. Mr. CHURCH. Mr. President: I would suggest to the gentleman who moved the reference of this section to the Finance Committee, whether, as it is to procure information, it would not be better to send it to the Committee on Counties, as this relates to counties? Mr. CAMERON. The Committee on Counties seems to be sadly demoralized, and I do not think the reference should be made to that committee. I do not think there is a quorum of the committee pres ent, and the sect ion should, there fore, go to the Committee on Finance. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the motion to commit the motion of the gentleman from Cook [Mr. Haines], together with the section, to the Committee upon Finance. The motion was agreed to. Mr. SPRINGER. Mr.- President: I will propose an additional section. I will only state, in advance, that the object to be gained by the section is simply to require the General Assembly to make one appropriation bill. We will then know at the time the appropriation is made, exactly how large it is, and for what purposes it is made. I think it will tend to prevent extravagant appropriations. The bills are ne rly always made singly, and without any knowledge of the great amounts appropriated. The Secretary read the section offered by Mr. Springer, as follows: Sim. —. All appropriations of the State revenue, made by the General Assembly, at one session thereof (except for purposes of suppressing rebellion, or repelling invasion), shall be made by, and and be included in one bill or act, and the aggregate amount of all such appropriations shall be set forth particularly in said act. Mr. ROSS. Mr. President:~ As a similar section has already been referred to the Committee on Finance, I would move that the same disposition be made of this. Mr. ALLEN, of Crawford. Mr. Presi dent: I would suggest to the gentleman from Madison [Mr. Springer] that he will find that by its provisions the Legislature would be very much embarrassed. If he should happen to be a member of the Legislature, such a provision being in operation, he could not draw a dollar of this pay until the Legislature got in all the.appropriations to be made during tho sessionl. Mr. SPRINGER. Mr. President: I would suggest to the gentleman that the pay of the members might be provided for at the next preceding session. VMr. ALLEN, of Crawford. I will state to the gentleman that we have already adopted an article requiring that Bills making appropriations for the pay of the members and officers of the General As* sembly, and for the salaries of the officers of the government shall not contain a provision: on any other subject. So the motion of Mr. Buxton, to lay on the table the motion of Mr. Abbott, to reconsider the vote by which section ten was adopted, was not agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is on the motion to reconsider. Mr. BUXTON. I wish to offer a reso lutioii of instruction in reference to submitting this section and the first one, to a separate vote. The PRESIDENT. It is not in order at the present stage. The yeas and nays were ordered, and being taken, resulted-yeas 27, nays 25as follows: YEAS. Abbott, English, Allen of Crf~d.,Forman, Anderson, Fox, Bayne, Hankins Benjamin, McDowell, Browning, Merriam, Bryan, Parks, Cody, Ross, Cummings, Sharp, NAYS. So the motion of Mr. Ross to lay sec. tion ten upon the table, was agreed to. The PRESIDENT. Are there any ad ditional sections? Mr. ANDERSON. Mr. President: As to the additions I offered, and which were referrred, I do not wish to now discuss them, but I desire to have the first referred to the Committee on Finance. The PRESIDENT. The Secretary will read the first additional section proposed by the gentleman from Jefferson [Mr. Anderson.] The Secretary read the first additional section offered by Mr. Anderson, as follows: SEc. -. The General Assembly shall never authorize the assessment of taxes for State purposes, the aggregate of which shall exceed sixty-five cents on each one hundred dollars valuation. The PRESIDENT. The question is on the motion to refer the first section to the Committee on Finance. The motion was agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is on the adoption of the next (second) se ction. The Secretary read the next (second) section, as follows: SioEC. -. No appropriation, by joint resolution or otherwise, shall be made by the General Assembly, unless passed by a two-thirds vote of each house. Mr. HAINES, of Cook. I move to strike out "by joint resolution or otherwise." I do not think it proper to appropriate money by resolution. Mr. ALLEN, of Crawford. There is a provision in the legislative article prohibiting the appropriating of money by joint or separate resolution, but requiring it to be done by bill. Mr. ANDERSON. I have no objection to having those words stricken out. Mr. HAINES, of Lake. Mr. President: I move to lay the section on the table. A division was ordered. The Convention divided, when, there being twenty in the affirmative and fif- teen in the negative, the motion was agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is on the next (third) section. The Secretary read the next (third) section, as follows: SEc. -. County authorities shall never assess taxes, the aggregate of which shall exceed -- cents per one hundred dollars val Goodell, Parker, Haines of CookPeirce, Haines of LakeSedgwick, Hart, Sherrill, Hday, Springer, Hildrup, Turner, McCoy, Wagner, Medill, Wait-25 Allen of Alex.,Hanna, Anthony, Harwood, Archer, Hayes, Atkins, King, Bowmnan, Moore, Brown, Neece, Coolbaugh, Perley, Craig, Pillsbury, Dement, Poage, Ellis, Rice, Goodhue, 4EAS. Abbott, Forman, Allen of C'fd. Fox, Anderson, Gamble, 404 MAY 21 1870. 1617 Bayne, Benjamin, Browning, Brva-n, Coily, Cummings, Eiagli,sh, Hankins, McDowell, Merriam, Parks, Ross, Sharp, Underwooct, Washburn, Wendling, Whiting, Wilsoin, Wright-28. Parker, ookpeirce, akesedgwick, She rill,' 'r Springer, Turner, Wagner, Wait-24. VOTING. Robinson, Scholfield, Skinner, Sutherland, Tincher, Vandeventer, Wall, Wells, Wheaton, . President-32. Bromwell, B-uxton, Cameron, Cary, Church, Cross, Eldredge, Fuller, SENT, OR NOT x. Hanna, Harwood, Hayes, Ray, King, M o 6ie, Neece, Perley, Pillsbury, Poage, Rice, Snyder, Truesdale, Tubbs, Underwood, Washburn, Wendling Whitina, Wilson, Wrighf-27. Anthony, Archer, Atkins, Bowman, Brown, Coolbaugh, Craig, Dement, cEllis, 'Oodhue,, Bromwell, Buxton, Cameron, Cary, Church, Crot3sge, F,Idre Fuller, Gamble, ABSENT, OR NOT VOTING. Robinson, Scholfield, Skinner, Sutherland, Tincher, Vandeventer, Wall, Wells, Wheaton,, Mr. Prefidenl. So the motion of Mr. Abbott, to recoiiisider section ten, was agreed to. Mr. BUXTON. Mr. President: I move the ado'ption of this resolution of instruetiolag, submitiing thi;s tenth section and the first to a separate vote. It will dispose of the section. Mr. ROSS. Mr. President: I submit, it is not in order. The question is upon the adoption'of the section. The PRESIDENT. The section is still before the Convention. Mr. ROSS. Mr. President: I move to lay the section on the table. The PRESIDENT. The gentleman from Clinton [Mr. Buxton] yielded the floor. Mr. BUXTON. Mr. President: I offer a motion to dispose of the section. The PRESIDENT. The Chair regards the proposition as in order. The section is before the Convention, and may be committed with instructions. The motion, however, of the gentleman from Fulton [Mr. Ross], takes precedence. Mr. WASHBURN. Mr. Prebident: I move the previous question on the whole ,subject. The PRESIDENT. The motion to lay on the table takes precedence of the previous question. The question is on the motion of the gentleman from Fulton [Mr. Ross] to lay the section on the table. The yeas and nays were ordered, and, beidg taken, resulted-yeas 28, uays 24as follows: Snyder, Truesdale, Tubbs, 0 1611 CO ~...... Now, sir, a thousand measures might be inaugurated for which it would be e on nescssary to make an appropriation out F of the public treasury, weeks bef)re the th Legislature would be ready to adjourn, un and it does seem to me that requiring an them to make all the appropriations they th have to make, in a single law, will not pl tend at all to check their disposition to make appropriations. Why, then, en- li cumber them with an inconvenient law, ou which, in may judgdment, w ould accom- tho plish no good? po If a hundred thousand dollars had to b e app ropriat ed to a particular object, ti and to be appropriat ed to-day, I d o n ot co se e why the Legislature cannot ma ke the pS appropriation just as well as to wait until th the en d o f the session, in order to det er- od mine whet her it will n ot be necessar y fo r th them to appropriate$25,000 for something L, else. It seems to me that it is not only trammelling the L eg islature upo n this w te q uestio n, bu t it is encumbering our Conh p stitution w ith a useless provision. I can fa s ee no good that will be acc omplished by b it, inasmu ch as it will not operate as a tt restraint upon the Legislature, in making tl appropriations, and inasmuch as it would necessarilyembarrassthe General Assem- C bly, in makieg such appropriations, from w t im e to time, during their sitting, as may id be absolutely necessary for the interests of ta the State.: The motion of Mr. Allen, of Crawford, pto compmit h the add i tional section offered a by Mr. Springer to the Committ ee on Fi- nance, was agreed to. a Mr. TURNER. I move the article p be now re fer red to t he Committ ee on R e- vision and Adjustment. c Mr. ROSS. I move that this article, t excepti n g th e first section, relatin g t o the b Illinoi s Central railroad, b e referred to I t he Committee on Fionace. I desir e to a say a single word upon that now. e The PRESIDENT. There is amotion a t o c ommit to the Commit tee on Revision and Adjustmeo tt, and the Chair cannot en- e terrain aemo tion to commit to another a commir te e until that is disposed of. t tMr. ROSS. I was under the impression t th a t the order in which the committees t stand would be the o rder of commitmen t, wh i c h would take precedence. The PRESIDENT. There is no such rule. t Mr. ROSS. It makes no difference. I s wvant to make this remark. There is a j determination on the part of some men, c who do want this first section, to loada this report on revenue lowne until the l people will reject it. The great mass of the ( people throughout the State desire that ( the firstt sectio)n be adopted, and still we c are told that there are thirty-seven {nount- l ties that wall flute against it. Add to that! the olbjectiolnable features in the balance 1 of this report, and especially the eighth sect~ion, whi~ch~ is oblnoxiouls to a great] number of counties in this State, and w e 1 lose, by the vote of the people, one of 1 the mnost desirable objects for which this 4 Convention cons-led. We lose the pro- vision of tying up the Legislature, so that -it cannoit abrogate that contract in rela- -1 tion to the Illinois Central railroad, and for that reason I move that the balance of the report be submitted to the Committee on Fi;:~ance, and that the first section lbe submitted as an independent article to be voted upon by the people. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the motion to refer to the Comnmittee on Revision and Adjustment.e Mr. MEDILL. Mr. President: I sec d the m o tion of the gentleman from ulton [Mar. Ross]. I am not in fabor o f e section as it stands. When it was 1 Ide r considera tion I tried to offer an nendment which would have obviated a te very grave danger in which we are a cing th is article. It was this: After the words "shall be" in the seventh ne, add "pa i d i nto the treasury," and strike st the words "appropriat ed and set apart r the payment of the ord in ar y e xpenses eof Le State government, and for no oth e r pur- ese whatever." The er ro r the Convention has unques- onably committed, is in determining by ristitutional enactment, th e future ap roepriation of th e reve nu e arisin g from at road. That is our mistake, in my pinion. We are attempting to do a iting here whic h should be left to future egislatures. Every man in this St ate, almost with t exception, is in favor of al l the first art o f th is section. The people are in vore of retaining this so, urce of revenue, ut are very seriously divided as to how, he proceeds shall be appropriated after te State debt is paid. When this ques tion was be fore the ommittee of the Whole, I argued that it bould be unsafe and unwise to attempt, a the Constitution, to determine how his money should be disposed of in the Dng future. I opposed the proposition of gentle nen representing the counties through ~hich the Illinois Central runs. I voted gainst the amendment having for its urpose a distribution of two per cent. f this seven per cent. fund among those Gunties. I opposed it for the reason that his is not the time and this is not the sody to make a division of this money. also opposed this substitute, which puts I the money into the treasury, and for ver forbids those counties from having ny portion of it. I insist that we have committed an ~rror here, by one faction forcing upon noether faction a certain disposition of his motley. Let us first secure the money o the public for all time. Let it continue ;o be applied to the payment of the State debt, and, after that is discharged, let it be paid into the treasury, and let the peo. ?le in coming years divide the money to uit themselves, according to equity and justice. Let them either apply it to the )rdinary expenses of the State, or make rebate to, those counties which claiml a portion of it. Let that question be left o~pen for future consideration. If the Convention refuses to do this, and insists on having the money definitely appropriated, the safer course is that proposed by the gentleman frsom Fulltonl [M~r. Rosso] to submit it to a separate popular vote. I warn gentlemen that if they i~ncorpo rate thi~s clause in the section aws it stands, they are running a grave hazzawrd that the whole thing wvils go down in a crash. Gentlemen must remember that there will be no) political party to) defend cour work. We must not overlook the fact that the new Constitution will have no political party to support or defend it, and no other powerful organization to uphold it. It must starnd or:f~11 on its own merits. No organized portion of the people will have any special interest in ratifying or carrying it thr ough. There will be some organtizations and special interest~s hostile to it. It can only depend for success upon the people, free of party influence and free o f th e pow erful support of party machinery. We cannot afford to put into this Constitu t ion stron gly objectionable sections or clauses whichi m ay a rray wh ol e masses of men against it, and whole ran ges of coun ties in hostility to it. We, therefore, better leave this vexed question of the division of th e booty open for the f uture t o de termine. I will, therefore, support the proposi tion of the gentleman from Fulton [Mr. Ross] if nothing better can be done. If the amendment I have tried to offer can not be introduced, I will support the proposition that this section, or the last clause of it, be submitted to a separate vote of the people, so as not to endanger the remainder of the article or of the whole Constitution, if the article be not separately submitted. Mr. TURNER. Mr. President: It would be a fatal mistake for this Con vention to refer this question, as it now stands, to the people, because all the coun ties along the line of the Illinois Cenitral Railroad would probably vote against the adoption of the entire Constitution, and with whatever support it might get from other counties, it might defeat the section, and then that great fund would be opened for legislative distribution to the highest bidder. I, therefore, will withdraw my motion to refer this article to the Committee on Revision and Adjustment; and, as I was one of the men who voted for the section as it now stands, I shall move a recon sideration of the vote by which it was adopted. In doing that, I will state that I do so for the purpose of having it amended, by striking out all after the word "authority," in the sixth line, so that it will merely providethat this fund shall be forever kept sacred to the State, leaving it to the General Assembly to do what it pleases with the money, after it has been paid into the treasury. Mr. ROSS. I will inquire if the gen tleman voted in favor of the section? Mr. TURNER. I did. Why does the gentleman ask that question? Mr. ROSS. Because I thought you voted against it. That's all. Mr. TURNER. Why does the gentle. man make the point whether I voted to adopt the section? Does he desire that the vote shall not be reconsidered? Is he in favor of leaving that fund as a logrolling fund in the General Assembly? W~hy is he not willing that the vote shall be reconsidered, and thle objectionable feature, which he assumes will defeat the section, str'iken out? W~ill the gentleman vote with us to strike out the objec. lionable clause, leaving that fund secured to the State for ail timle to come, and leaving the State to dispose of it as it sees proper? I:move, sir, that the vote b~y which this section was adopted be reconsidered; and it recon~sidered, [ shalt at once, if so:me other mlember does not do it, move to amend b~y striking out adl tile obj ectionable portionl of the section. Mr. G;OOD)ELL. I hope that; motion will prevail. We have declared here today, in the organic law sof this State! that these thirty'sevten counties, through which this road runs, shall, in effect, pay the ordinary expenses of this governmluent fot all time, and, at the samle time we do that, we deprive the counties through I I s e s f e e t 0 d MA 2,80. DEBTE AX PnOE)-S 16X order to get votes for the railroad coun ties. Now, sir, this is unwise legislation, in my opinion, and I think this Convention should deliberate, do what they do on their own responsibility, and then if they choose, submit the matter separately. Why cannot the Convention make a final ity, and submit the question whether these counties shall participate in the benefits? That is certainly better than to leave it to the votes of the Legislature, where that fund will always be a premi um for log-rolling and intrigue. Mr. ANDERSON. Mr. President: The argument used by the gentleman from Coles [Mr. Bromwell], and the gentleman from Stephenson [Mr. Turner J, has coin vinced me of the absurdity of their posi tion. The reason they urge for strik.l'tng out convinces me they are wrong. I am opposed to striking out. Why, sir, this is a log-rolling preventive. There can be no log-rolling underthis, for it is a fixed fact. Where, sir, does the log-rolling come in? When we strike out this part of the section, and leave the thirty-seven counties to go into the Legislature to claim this bonus, we make this a great log-rolling measure. Then they can come in and claim this fund for them selves, and then, sir, we will have log rolling. Sit, if there be a crime which this Con vention can commit against the rights of the people of this State, it is to strike out this part of the section. If we want our Constitution defeated by hundreds of thousands, strike this out. Strike it out and let the thirty-seven counties claim this right to the seven per cent. earnings of the Illinois Central railroad company which the people of the whole State hold in common. This was a magnificent gift to the Central railroad for the purpose of building it, and shall all the rights and benefits accruing to the State of Illinois be given to thirty-seven counties? Shall sixty-five counties be thrust aside? Sir, it is a crime against the people of the whole State to strike out this part of the section. It will be condemned by the people, as it ought to be. If there is anything entitled to the claim of justice, it is that we fix that provision firmly in our Constitution. I have no objectien to submitting this section separately, but I will never vote to strike it out. Mr. ALLEN, of Crawford. Mr. Presio dent: I have not participated in this discussion, either in Committee of the Whole or in Convention. But I am somewhat astonished at the remarks of gentlemen representing some of the counties along this road, on this floor. I happened to have the misfortune to be a member of the Legislature of 1851, when this charter was granted to the Central railroadt company, and these lands were donated to the company. I know of no people in the State more anxious to have this agreement with the Central railroad company entered into, in its letter and spirit, than the counties through which this road now runs Their representatives here, urged us, day after day, not to fail to enter into this contract with the Central Railroad company. iWe told them it was a gift to the State, and to give it to a company was, in fact, surrendering the interests of the remoter portions of the State without sufficient consideration. We are told that we re which th e road runs of their full share of the taxable property of the State. In the remarks I made this forenoon, I said this policy was uIDjust and illiberal. I now say it is outrageous, and that our people so consider it. I hope the motion to reconsider will prevail. Mr. McO'OY. Mr. President: When we passed upon this question in Commit tee of the Wbole, I moved a divison of the question so that a vote could be had first upon the question of releasing the Central railroad, and then as to what should be done with the fund. That seems to be the object in this motion for reconsideration, and I therefore hope it will be reconsidered, that we mnay take a vote on the naked question, with refer ence to the obligation of the railroad company to the State. JEvtr. BROMWELL, Mr. President: I hope the Convention will reconsider the vote by which the section was adopted. The section contains too much. It is one thing to secure the people as to the pay ment of the Central railroad money, but it is entirely a different thing as to what shall be done with it. Now, the entire people, without re spect to party or section, desire- that the Central railroad fund be actually secured to the State by constitutional provision. They all know that the revenue derived from that source will greatly exceed any taxation that can be levied upon the rail road, as in the case of other railroads. Why, then, clog that provision with what is believed to be an unjust discrimination in disposing of the commutation money? I desire this Convention to reflect at least a little before they launch this Con stitution in this shape. I am the last man in the Convention to talk about what the people will vote in order to in duce votes upon this floor, but we can not shut our eyes to the fact that thirty seven counties, having a common inter est, and believing this is wrong, are not to be wholly ignored, at least, *n refer ence to the manner in which we shall submit it. If the Convention will do nothing for these counties-will not hear their stade of the case, nor grant any re lief, but declare that commutation money, both county and State, shall be paid into the State treasury, let the section be separated, so that, while one portion of this provision may take its fate before the people, the main proposition may be absolutely secured. I, Ibr one, wish to see this question of the C:entral Railroad being compelled to pay that mooney finally determined, and plut beyond question. Therefore it is well, I think, to disemnbarrass the provision from all others. The proposition of the gentleman from Corok [ vir.. Medil l] turns the question over to the Legislature, and such a disposition of it is enough to damn the section. It is absolutely providinag a log rolling fund for all time to comne. It is like dodging, to throw it back into thle hands oaf the Legislature, requiring that lsody- for all time to come to have this thing before them} subject to) the forming of comabinn. tions by swamp land companies, overflowed land companies, canal and river' improvement comlpanlies, so that if the counties along the line succeed in get. ting anything it will be at great expense, of countless, useless appropriations of public money, poured out by millions} in DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1615 M.&Y 27 1870. ceived our compensation in the general prosperity of the State, and in the tax to be paid by theni. Mr. GOODELL. The gentleman as. sumes that the State granted this laud to the railroad company. Mr. ALLEN, of Crawford. I am not standing upon technical terms or grounds. The general government gave the land to the State for building a railroad. The State gave it to the Central railroad, uu. der the contract embraced in the charter, and after the contract was made with the Central railroad, a most intense anxiety was manifested by those counties that complain here to-day, to have that road lo cated within their county limits. We heard nothing then about thing "outrage" of which they talk to day. They entreated us io make the contract, they implored the Central railroad company to locate its road through their counties, knowing the terms of the grant-knowing that it was a surrender to the people of the State of - all the taxes that mioht be derived from the railroad itself. To-day they come here and whine and whimper to induce us to release them from the obligations they entered into with us when we made the contract with the railroad company, and they beg the other counties, "for God's sake relieve us from the terms of that contract." That is wrong. They have no moral right to ask it. They got all we contracted to give them when they got the Illinois Central railroad. They have all its advantages, while we in the other coun. ties, for every mile of ralroad we have built, have had to draw from our own pockets, and tax ourselves. Now they ask us to surrender the interest of the St-ate in the seven per cent., that the people of counties on the road may not be burdened by this taxation. Burdef-i.ed! Why, gentlemen, the Illinois Central railroad has made you rich. It has poured into the lap of those counties milliods of wealth. It has built up la,rg6 towns and cities all along its line,'while the other sixty odd counties have not had one dollar's benefit from it, except as they have derived it from the taxes paid iiito the State treasury. But you are not content now, after having been made rich by this bounty, and call for more, more, more. Although we have had to build our own roads and other improvements with our own money, you ask us to surrender the boon we have in this seven per cent. from the proceeds of that road. Sir, I am for this section, as it stands. I want the people of Illinois to pass on it. I want them to say to these thirty. seven counties "you shall keep your contract with us, made when we let you have the road." The gentleman from Coles [Mr. Bromwell] would have this Convention surrender this tax to the people of these counties. I tel I that gentleman 1, for one, am not willing to do it. His representative upon this floor in the General Assembly was one of the foremost in inducidg us to enter into the contract with the Central railroad; was one of the noisiest upon this floor. He believed that the people of his county throu_gh which the roa I would in all probability run, one branch of it at least, woul,,l hold him in grateful remembrance as long as he and they lived. And I ha; e 1616 COSTIT ['TIONAL CONVENTION MONDAY, The Secretary will read the section introduced by the gentleman from Kankak(e [Mr. Gamble]. The Secretary read the section offered by Mr. Gamble, as follows: The General Assemly shall provide that the three-lourths of one per cent., collected of the Illinois Central railroad, in lieu of all county, town and school tax, shall be paid by the State to the several counties through which said Illinois Central railroad does run. Mr. CROSS. I move to lay the section upon the table. The yeas and nays were ordered, and, being taken, resulted-yeas, 38; nays, 15 -as follows: no doub t they did. I hav e n o doubt they continue to do so. I ask the gentaleman from Cole3 [Mr. Bromwell], a s his successor, representing the interests of the people of his county upon this floor, not to come to us and ask us to act in bad faith to sixty odd counties of this State, by releasing the Central railroad funds to the counties on whose behalf he pleads. Mr. SHARP. Mr. President; I move to lay the motion to reconsider upon the table. Mr. BROMWELL. Mr. President: I call for the yeas and nays. The yeas and nays were ordered, and being taken, resulted-yeas 30, nays, 27as follows: 6 per cent. shall be set apart for the ordinary expenses of the State. I am will ing to leave that matter to the Legislature. Southern Illinois is laboring under greater disadvantages t ha n we are in the north. If we look at it candidly and deliberately there will be no difficulty in carrying the Con sti tution, but if we lo ad it down wi th such burdens as we are n ow putting upon it, i t will be voted down. This is the first time, I believe, that I have uttered a threat upon this floor. Wi th the thirty- seve n counti es upon one side, and all Southern Illinois upon the other, we are putti ng a wei ght upon it that it will not bear. Strike out the lat. ter provision and it will be satisfactory to those counties interested in the Central railroad. If we strike out sections eight and ten of this report and say nothing about the law of 1869, I am convinced that it will be satisfactory to Southern Illinois. Mr. WASHBURN. Mr. President: Is not section ten stricken out? Mr. BAYNE. Mr. President: It may be. I think section eight is driving at the same thing. Mr. UNDERWOOD. The reason we do not want it stricken out, is that the Legislature may not appropriate it to any purpose by log-rolling influences. Mr. BAYNE. Mr. President: We have no logs to roll in this section of the State. It is mostly prairie. [Laughter.] I am ready to trust to the wisdom of the people hereafter. All they want is that we shall fix it so that the seven per cent. shall be paid in-fix that in the Constitution so that it shall stay there, and say nothing about what the Legislature will do with it hereafter. As to the law of 1869, if it is unconstitutional, the courts are open to the people, and we can get rid of it without legislating on that subject in the Dresent Constitution. I am satisfied the two principles are antagonistic, and will finally weigh down the Constitution. Mr. CROSS. Mr. President: I am satisfied that if each member of this Convention could have that part of the Constitution stricken out that is to him objectionable, the part of the Constitution left, (if any) would be adopted by the people. Mr. BRYAN. It is agreed by every delegate on the floor that the people of Illinois feel deeply interested in the question, and that makes it more imfportanlt that this resolution should be adopted at this time, there being a- unanimous consent that this proposition in some way should be submitted to the action of the people. It becomes a question in what form it shall be submitted, whether as the section no~w stands, or 80 that future legislation can give away, by application on the part of many counties, part of this money. Now, sir, I represent a county in which, I believe, there are more miles of the Illinois Central road than any other county in the State. I have learned here for the first timne, since this discussion came up, that our people are interested in the subject of getting a part of this money. I have here been informed for the first time that our people have been laboring under great wrong. Sir, I adopt the whole of the argument of my friend from Crawford [M~r. Allen]. YEAS. Abbott, Fuller, Sharp, Allen of Crfd., Haines of CookSherrill, Anderson, Haines of LakeSnyder, Browning, IHankins, Springer, Bryan, Hildrup, Tubbs, Buxton, McDowell, Underwood, Church, Parks, Wagner, Cody, Peirce, Washburn, Cross. Ross, Wilson, Cummings, Sedgwick, Wright —30. NAYS. Bayne, Fox, Parker, Benjamin, Gamble, Tincher, Bromwell, Goodell, Truesdale, Cameron, Hart, Turner, Cary, Hay, Vandeventer, Eldridge, McCoy, Wait English, Medill, Wendling, Forman Merriam, Whiting-24. ABSENT, OR NOT VOTING. Allen of Alex.,Goodhue, Rice, Anthony, Hanna, Robinson, Archer, Harwood, Scholfield, Atkins, Hayes, Skinner, Bowman, King, Sutherland, Brown, Moore, Wall, Coolbaugh, Neece, Wells, Craig, Perley, Wheaton, Dement, Pillsbury, Mr. President-29. Ellis, Poage, So the motion of Mr. Sharp to lay the motion to reconsider upon the table, was agreed to. Mr. GAMBLE. Mr. President: I offer an additional section, which I will send up to be read. Mr. BRYAN. Mr. President: Is not there a proposition pending to commit the balance of the article to the Committee on Finance? The PRESIDENT. The Chair did not entertain the proposition, because there was another motion to commit to the Committee on Revision and Adjustment. That motion was withdrawn, but immediately there was a motion made toreconsider before the gentleman from Fulton [Mr. Ross] got the floor. Mr. ALLEN, of Crawford. I will state that, so far as the friends of this proposition are concerned, we have no objection that it should be submitted to the people as an independent proposition. The PRESIDENT. The Chair will state that there is no such question pending. The gentleman from Kankakee [Mr. Gamble] has risen to introduce another section. Mr. ROSS. I made a motion that the first section be submitted as an independent article. The PRESIDENT. The Chair did nlot entertain it, because there was a motion to commit to another committee at the time. The Chair has no doubt that~ it can be renewed shortly. So the motion of Mr. Cross to lay on the table the section offered by Mr. Gamble was agreed to. Mr. BRYAN. Mr. President: In regard to this first section of the revenue article, I have a conviction in my mind that it should be submitted as a separate proposition, and I make that motion. Mr. UNDERWOOD. Mr. President: Would it not be better to refer it to the Committee on Schedule? Mr. BAYNE. Mr. President: I voted against laying the amendment of the gentleman from Kankakee [Mr. Gamble] on the table. At the same time, I would not have voted for its adoption. The Central railroad passes through my county. I do not ask to have set apart any portion of this fund to my county, at this time. I am satisfied with the provision which secures the seven per cent. to be paid, forever, into the treasury. I believe the people of my county, and of the adjoining counties, are ready to go that far. There are thirty-seven counties interested in this railroad, which labor under a considerable burden, by reason of the provisions set forth by the Legislature -for building that road. It is well known that by a provision of the charter, no railroad can be built within ten miles of it, running in the same direction. The people along the line of the road are burdened with extraordinary freights in order to pay this per cent. into the State treasury, but I am satisfied with the first part of the section as it stands, though I would like to strike out the last two lines, requiring that this seven 1616 CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION MONDA.YI TRA.S. Abbott Haines of Allen oi Crlfd., Haines of Anderson, Hankins, Browning, Hay, Bryan, Hildrup, Buxton, McCoy, Church, McDowell Cody' Merriam, Cross, Parks, Cummings, Peirce, English, Ross, Fox, Sedgwick, Fuller, Sharp, NA.YS Bayne, Forman, Benjamin, Gamble, Bromwell, Goodell, Camero-, Hart, Cary, Medill, Parker, Tincher, Turner 'I u dli'n iti.ge, We Wh _15. VOTING. Poage, Rice, Robinson, Beholtield,' Skinner, Sutherland, w:',',,., Wheaton, r. Presidelkt. .LBSBNT, OR NOT Allen of Alex.,Ellis, Anthony, Goodhue, Archer, Haula, Atkins, Harwood, Bowman, Hayes, Brown, KIDE. Coolbaugh, Moore, Craig, Neece, Dement, Perley, Eldredge, Pillsl;u,ry, M MA 2- 180 EAE N RCEJG.11 deeply on this subject, and they should be permitted to vote for and adopt this proposition as a separate article, and as an amendment to the existing Constitution, if our work in preparing a new Constitution shall be voted down. It should be submitted as it now stands in the article on revenue. It provides that the fiunds shall never be commuted or released; that the seven per cent. shall fo)rever continue to be collected as permanent revenue to the State; that it mayv never be diverted by an act of the Legislature, and also that, after the payment of the State debt, this fund shall be forever applied to the payment of che ordinary expenses of the government. This, Mr. President, is right. If an effort should be made, or if the section should be left in a shape that an effo)rt could be made to apply a portion of this money to certain counties through which the road passes, the foundation wou'd be then laid to pervert the remainder of it to other purposes in other counties, and the great benefits of this fund would be lost to the people as a tax-releasing fund; besides which to encumber the section with such a condition would greatly endanger its adoption before the people. As the section now stands, the two great demands of the people are secured -first, the money is placed out of danger of being trifled away, and, secondly, it is applied to defray the expenses of the State gov(wrment in all time to come. These two important ends achieved, the people will be satisfied OD this subject, and hence I have offered a resolution to instruct the Committee on Revision to provide for the submission of this section as a separate article. All other minor questions can be provided for hereafter. If just ice to the counties through which this road passes, demands that they shall be relieved from hardships, let relief be granted by the Legislature, but let us not endanger a matter of so much importance as this article, by attempting relief here or leaving the subject in a doubtful or dangerous shape. Mr. TINCHER. Mr. President: If the gentleman who made this motion will withdraw it, I would like to offer an amendment to strike out all after "authority." There is a difference of opinion as to the rights of citizens in different parts of the state. Mr. BUXTON. Mr. President: I rise to a point of order. The gentleman is not speaking to the question. Mr. TINCHER. I am laying a broad basis by which to come around to the question, as I shall do speedily. o The PRESIDENT. A question to submit with instructions, opens the subject So general debate. Mr. TINCHER. While section ten is quietly slumbering upon the table, there w by giving quiet and comfort to friends in the southern portion of the State, I have no objection to letting it quietly rest there. But here is a portion of our people inhabiting other portions of the State, who will feel that they are sufferi ng a wrong if this section be adopted as now proposed. I believe, by striking out two or three of the last lines, it will give entire satisfaction. I do not conceive that it places the question in any different attitude by striking them out, except in appearance. It does not, as it now stands, prevent the Legislature from When gentlemen tell us that the gov ernment of the United States gave this land to Illinois, they are mistaken. The government entered into an arrangement by which they sold half of the land they owned for just as much money precisely as they asked for the whole of it. It was an arrangement of the government of the United States, by which they brought into market, and actually sold land, which would be to-day, a wilderness, but for the arrangement. The ~government, today, has received every dollar that they would have received, if they had sold the whole of the land contiguous to this line of road. Therefore, they have not given the State of Illinois a copper, as I understand it. The State gave the title to the other portion of the lands contiguous to the road, to the railroad company, in order to secure the construction of the road. The general government found a market for half the lan.ds and the State obtained the road and with it, seven per cent. of its gross earnings for the other half of the land, and the people, a great thoroughfare for themselves, and their posterity, which has added largely to the prosperity of the State. Mr. BROMWELL. I would ask the gentleman if, according to his own statement, the people on the line, who bought the odd sections, at two dollars and fifty cents per acre, did not pay for that very grant of lands made by congress? Mr. BRYAN. No, sir. By the fact of haviug a railroad to transfer their corn and potatoes, and their own bodies, they have been more blessed than injured by it. It has been a matter of economy to them, and a source of profit to them, and no man can find fault with the government of the United States for having entered into this arrangement by which the citizens of Illinois hate been able to reach the markets of the world. Gentlemen say citizens of Illinois gave this. Why, Mr. President, every dollar that has been put in the line of that road has become aproducing dollar. It has become a productive dollar in all the relations of finance and commerse, to every citizen of Illinois, and to those counties throughout the line of this road, while the various counties through which it passed have been more especially benefited by this enterprise, so that every dollar laid down in the construction of this road has become a producing dollar along side of the dollar of the citizens. It has made the dollar of the people along its line worth two dollars) so that if they do not receive the benefit of the local tall on the property, they have received in another way double the value of that property. In other words, they are worth two dollars where they were wvorth one before. I am satisfied our people have never asked this, and that they never will ask it. I anm as much interested as any gentleman to have this question placed beyond- jangling in the Legislature. Our people are interested in having this fund secured to the State of Illinois) that they may share it with their brethren for all time to come. They are not willing to hazard this section with other portions of the Constitution, but desire it submitted separately to a vote of the people, that theyr may secure this important source of revenue from the danger of diversion. Our people iie MAY 21 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1617 appropriating other funds to the county through whicia the road runs. I believe the people alODg the line of the road will be universally satisfied with this provision if the part that I prcpose be stricken out. It will leave this question as before. The Legislature can appropriate money to the respective counties through which the road runs., My amendment will, if adopted, remove the objections made by the delegates along the line of the road; a-ad I can see no reason why it should not be done. We have got to make some compromises in the Iuestions before us. Every gentle man cannot have all his ideas ine-,rporated in the Constitution. I may not have all I want. I am, personally, satisfied with this provision as it is, but others are not; and as it can do no harm to strike it out, I would like to have it done, in order to harmonize the Convention upon this question. And, if the gentleman would withdraw his motion to refer, I would like to have a vote upon thi.s amendment, and then the decision of the Convention is all I desire upon the question. I hope the committee to which this is referred will strike out all after the word "authority"-aud I sball be satisfied. Mr. ROSS. Mr. President: Is not that the question just voted on? Mr. T,INCHER. I think not, Mr. President. 'Mr. WAGNER (in his seat). The gentleman was asleep. Mr. TINCHER. Not asleep, sir. I move Mr. Presi-dent, to strike out all after the word "authority," in section six. Mr. ALLEN, of Crawford. Mr. President: What is the question? The PRESIDENT. The question is upon reference to the Committee on the Schedule. Mr. ALLEN, of Crawford. And is it moved, Wlr. President, to instruct the committee to strike out? Mr. TINCHER. Mr. President: That is my motion. Mr. ALLEN, of Crawford. Mr. Presi,. dent: I hope that motion will not prevail. We were told by the people that if we surrendered our interest in those lands, the time would come when the revenue derived from the road would pay the ex 161 COSIUTOA COYSTO -OD pie are willing to pay for freight and passage, and railroads are wanted everywhere. In all the other counties, as the gentleman from Crawford [Mr. Allen] has said, individual donations and subscriptions of towns and counties were required to construct the railroads, while this Central railr,ad was constructed without such sacrifices on the part of the people along its line. The only drawback is that for county and city purposes they are not allowed to tax railroad property. In lieu of that, they get what is of ten thousand times more value-the enhancement of the value of the property they owned at the time and havQ acquired since, the inducements to others to settle in their midst with their property, and the facilities for transportation to and from markets, that they may sell their produce at reasonable prices. No man living in those counties could be induced to tear up this road or go back and live at a great distance from it. The people in many other counties of the State would be exceedingly gratified to be placed in the same condition as those on this road. I hope this discussion and controversy will end and that the section will be rei ferred to the committee, as suggested by my friend from Marion [Mr. Bryan]. He lives on this road; the main trunk and the Chicago branch are in his county: his people are interested in it. I know them well; they thoroughly understand this subject; they are almost unanimously of the opinion that honesty and justice and right require that this fund shall be applied for the whole State in good faith, as the charter prescribes. N(,w, sir, if it goes to the Committee on Schedule, they can submit it as a separate article, and I venture to say, sir, that it will receive more votes than any other proposition submitted by this Convention. Mr. ELDREDGE. Mr. President: I understand that the motion is to strike out, as proposed by the gentleman from Vermilion [Mr. Tinchier]. The PRESIDENT. The Claair does not regard the amendment proposed by the gentleman from Vermilion [Mr. Tincherj in order, inasmuch as the Convention has declined to reconsider its action upon this question, although the object of the gentleman moving it was to strike out the very matter that the gentleman from Vermilion [Mr. Tincher] moves to strike outt. eMr. ELDREDGE. Mr. President: It seems to me, in view of the fact that the members of this Convention are unanimous upon this one question, namely, that the Illinois Central railroad company ought not to be released from the payiment of this seven per cent., if we ad journ without making some provision, placing it beyond all contingencies, so far as in our power to do so, we shall not have done justice to the people who have, as is conceded, especially demanded that this shall be distinctly declared in the Constituti n. Now, it is an easy matter to secure that, and it does seem to me, sir, that if the Illinois Central railroad company had endeavored to defeat this objet, they could not have contrived to do it more adroitly, than by submitting such a se c l tion ts this which is taken from the arti cle reported by the Committee on Railroads, and substituted for the first section of the article upon revenue. leaving it to the Legisl ature, where it will be a subject of log-rolling, and where the seven per cent. would be perverted from the ordinary appropriations, in which all parts of the State will get the benefits. If at this time we should strike out this provision, it would be regarded by the General Assembly as a license to apply this fund otherwise than was first intended. Nothing else could be the conclusion. Now there are some cases where a compromise is possible. But what if one claim his neighbor's wife, and his neighbor resists his claim-can there be a compronlin,e? Or if he claim his horse, or any other property about which there is no real ground for controversy? This seven per cent. belongs to the whole people of the State, aud yet gentlemen ask us to compromise what is clearly ours under the contract and the law. It is a compromise about what should not be the subject of any controversy what ever. The people along this road have received the full benefit of it, and will continue to receive it. Many provisions of the charter were for their benefit. For instance, alternate sections of land that the government sold, became taxable sooner by the construction of the road, for otherwise they would have remained unsold and uncultivated for many years. Mr. TINCHER. Is there any provision in this or mny other section, prohibiting the Legislature from remitting to those counties, two per cent. or more, of some funds in the treasury-? Mr. UNDERWOOD. This section plainly requires that the per cent. shall be applied to the ordinary expenses of the State, which excludes the idea of its be. ing perverted for any part of the State. Mr. TINCHER. I do not refer to this fund. But is there anything to prevent the Legislature from appropriating back to those counties? Mr. UNDERWOOD. The Legislature can give away its money, I admit, but not under this provision. Mr. TINCHER. Can they not do it under this section as its stands? Mr. UNDERWOOD. No, sir, not under this fundamental law, which they will be sworn to support. I was proceeding to say that the features of this charter were really all ill favor off the people along that line. Railroad lands sold, were exempted from t~ax, atica for ten years, which induced settlers to go there. When they had paid the railroad company for it, and it was conlveyed, it became subject to taxation. As to this seven per cent. gross earnings, it was understood every where, at the time of this "donation," as it is called, that the State wvas to get the benefit of it. MYy friend from Mlarion [Mr. Bryars] has shown that this was no donation at all, s0 far as the general government was concerned. The location of this road was a great favor to these counties. Most of the provisions of this law were for their benefit,1 and yet the little pittance of the proceeds which the balance of the State gets, genltlemnen would like to take from them. A very small portion of the income of this road is taken from the counties along the line elf the br'ad. True, they have to pay for their freight and passage on the toad, but that is art adran~tag~e. All pec Abbott, Fuller, Sharp, Allen, of Cr'fd,Haines of Lake,sherrill, Anderson, Hankins, Snyder, Browning, Hay, Springer, Bryan, Hildrup, Tubbs, Buxton, McDowell, Underwood, Church, Merriam, Wagner, Cross, Parks, Wait, Cummings, Peirce, Washburn, English, Ross, Wilson, Fox, Sedgwick, Wright-33. .NBYS. Goodell, - Tincher, Haines ofCook, Truesdale, Hart, Turner, McCoy, Vandeventer, Medill, Wendling, Parker, Whiting-19. IABSENT, OR NOT VOTING. Allen of Alex, Ellis, Poage. Anthony, Goodhue, Rice, Archer, Hann a, Robinson, Atkins, Harwood, Sebholfield, Bowman, Hayes,.Sutherland, Brown, King, Skinner, Cary, Moore, Wall, Cody, Neece, Wells, Coolbaugh, Perley, Wheaton, Craig, Pillsbury, Mr. Prerident-S3l Dement, CONSTITUTIONAL CO-NVENTION -MOND.&T 1618 Now, it is manifest, sir, from the expression of the sentiments of different members here, that the adoption of anything that looks like a prohibition upon the Legislature against the appropriation of an, equitable portion of this fund among the counties along the line of this road through which it runs, will meet with very strong opposition, and array hostility against the whole article on reven.ue; and, therefore, for the purpose of having this question fairly submitted so that it caii be determined and passed upon by the people, and placed beyond all contingencies, as I believe it will be by having it submitted to the people separately, I move to amend the motion of the gentleman from Marion [,Nlr. Bryaia] so as to embrace so much of sectin one as is contained between the begi]UDiDg of it and the word "authority," in the sixth line. Then, if the COnvention desires to retain the remainder of the section, it can do so. That will uinquestionablv guard effectually against the release of the Illinois Central rilroad company from its obligation. to pay into the public t reasury this seven per cent. of its gross earnings as required by its charter. Mr. BUXTON. Mr. President: Is it in order to move the previous question? The PRESIDENT. It is not in order. Mr. BUXTON. Is it in order to move to lay the amendment on the table? The PRESIDENT. It is in order. Mr. BUXTON. Then I make that motion, sir. Mr. BRO,,NIWELL. Mr. President: I call for the yeas and nays on that. The yeas and nays were ordered, and being taken, resulted-yeas, 32, nays, Iii as follows: YEJLB. Bayne,. Berijamin, BroLawell, Cameron, Eldredge, Forman, Gamble, So the motion of Mr. Buxton to lay on the table the amendment offered by Mr. Eldredge, was agreed to. Mr. CAMERON. I would inquire if it is in order to further instruct? The PRESIDENT. Instructions are subject to tiiueiiditie-int. Mr. CAMERON. It is evident, Afr. Presideijt, to every one, that we have had not onlv to-dav, but on all occasions when this subject of the Illinois Ceiltral rail .i 2, 180 EAE l IRCEIG.11 adopted, part of the Constitution. I move that such instructions be given. If we trifle too much with the subject, under cover of the smoke of the contention we are raising, there is a danger of the road slipping out of its obligations, and. de feating the main o)bject of the section. Mr. BROMWELL. Mr. President: The gentleman from Cook [Mr Cameron] takes the same view I expressed a few moments ago on this floor. That first pro vision is thile unanimous choice of the whole people, and every delegate knows it. The whole controversy has been on the second paragraph of that section. Now, if this Convention will not ac cede to the request and demand of the counties on the line of the Central rail road, but refuse to commit that to the Legislature, why will it refuse to submit it to the people? Gentlemen are contin ually proposing to submit one section or another to the people. Here is a ques tion of very grave imnportance, on which all are agreed, and if this other, which is objectionable to so many, is grafted on that section, it will be very embarrassing to it. Here is a question about which the Convention cannot and will not agree, and yet a question which will excite the livliest interest in a great many of the counties of the State. Now, it seems to me that it is peculiarly a question to go to the people, by itself, to stand or fall On its own merits, if this Convention declines to settle it for itself. And, therefore, I think the instruction Bmoved by the gentleman from Cook [IMr Cameron] is the best instruction, and the best proposition we have had since it became apparent that the Convention would not allow the claim of those counties by a vote of this body. Let this question of the paym, nt into the State treasury by the Ce ntral railroad, be disembarrassed of these other matters which are thrown into it. There is no need of there being an additional paragraph to the section, after it provides that the seven per cent. shall be forever paid in. Go on and provide in a separate section what shall be done with that fund, whether it be that it shall remain a part of the State revenue forever, or be distributed. In either case it is a proper subject for a separate sectioni. At any rate I do urge the Convention to separate these two propositions, either here or before the people. Let the Committee on Revision be instructed at least to separate them. Now, the gentleman from Crawford [Mr. Allen], and the gentleman from Jefferson [Mr Anderson], both seemed to think when they were speaking, that what I had said on this fltor, was in ref erence to the propriety of a share of this fund being received by the counties; but I was speaking then to this very point nmade by the gentleman from Cook [Mr. Cameron], that they were embarrassing the subject., and refusing to set the matter straight, that we were putting this in a condition to incur the opposition of all counti es on the Illinois Central railroadt while at the same time these counties are as warmly in favor of this money being paid by the Central railroad as any in thev Itate. What is the reason that these counties having the Central railroad, and which pay the molney, shiuld be compelled to tvote on these two pr.'-positi)ns together? t The Convention, certainly, if it thinks it road has be en und er discussion, a very serious diversity of opinion upon the questions presented in this particular sec tion. It must also be apparent that this diversity of opinion does not exist as to the provisions contained in the firstsix lines, providing that the Illinois Central railroad shall never be released from its contract with the State. I believe on this proposition this Convention is a unit, at least we profess to be so, and I feel very certain that the people throughout the State are unitedi upon it. All classes and sections desire to have this provision ia corporated into the Constitution of the State. This being the case, there can libe no propriety whatever in submitting the whole section to a separate vote. The question ill controversy is set forth from the middle of the sixth line to the close. That is the part, and the only part, .which ought to be subject to separate suibmission. It reads: And all moneys derived from said company, after the payment of the State debt, shall be appropriated and set apart for the payment of the ordinary expenses of the State government, and for no other purposes whatever. This is all that there is in controversy ab,out the section. Why shall we submit the whole section, to endanger the first provision, we all pr fess to favor? I do not know but that the county which I have the honor in part to represent is interested perhaps as much as any county on the line of the road, in the subject which has been so thoroughly discussed. But, I say, that the interest our people have it, getting their portion of the two per cent. does Dot exce(:d, does not-equal, the still greater interest they have ingetting this first provision eigrafted in the C(onstitution. I believe the people of Cookcounty would prefer having this section appear in the Constitution with itsmostot)jectionable features, rather than not ha -e it ia the Constitution at all. I have Do disposition, on the one hand, to be agitated by, fears, entreaties, whin. Iugs, or whimpering<, to which the gentleman from Crawford [Mr. Allen] has alluded, nor, on the other band, to be intimidated by the blustering threats Of to)ting down the Constitution. When gentlemen tell me that the Constitution will be voted down if this feature is engraftecd upon it, or unless they get everything their owvn way, I- must tell themo, in plia Eaagiish, with all dure respect, that they have not votes enough in Southern Illinois to do it. I believe that the people on the line of this railroad, comprisinlg half the voting population of the State, deeply interested as they feel ill hlathg t';eir'utst rights properly guarded on this question of the Illino(is Central tax, have a much stro)nger inter. est in ha vinug a good C onLstitu tionr ad opted by the State. They will not vote against the C~onstitution because they have not got adl they want or ought to get. I do not think it is just to take propositions so distinct and ~eparate aXs these are anld unite them in one section, thuls compelling this people on the line of the road to) take them as one. They are unanimously in favor of the first, but the second is,,bxjectionable. I am, Mr. President, therefo~re, in favor of iu~-tructing the Committee onl Schedule to subumit only the last clause to a vote cf the peo,ple, thereby allowing the first six lines of this ar'ticle, on whlich c we all protess to agree, to staled as now1 w i s a ct in g r ightly in refusing the claim of these counties, has nothing to fear from the verdict of the people of the State, when they have sixty-five counties off the road, which can vote down any claim they think unjust. I do hope the Committee on Revision will be re-instructed to separate these provisions in the section, and that what ever is submitted to the people, may be submitted separately, that we may have an overwhelmig, g vote of the entire State, in favor of keeping the Central railroad to this obligation. Mr. PEIRCE. Afr. eresident: I wish to say a few words in reference to the question of the division of this question, and submitting this matter in two por tions It appears to me that it is entire ty unnecessary, and I will state why I think it is unnecessary. Gentlemen tell us, as a reason why it should be separately submitted, that it contains two Olstinoi t propositions, upon the first of which the whole people of the State are united and agreed, but th,tt on the second, commencing after the word "authority," there is a great diversity of opinion. It has, per haps, escaped the attention of gentlemen thatthe Legislature pr~vided, by joint resolutions, at the sessions of 1867 and 1869, for the submitting of this question of the tax and income of the Central railroad to a vote of the people, and that under the provisions of that joint resolutl()n, indorsed by two suceeding Legislatures, asrequired by the second section (o)f the twelfth article of the,resenut Constitution, there will be submitted at the next November electioft, to be voted upon by the people of the State, this amendment: The General Assembly shall have no power to release the Illinois Central railroad company from its obligati(on to pay into the State treasury, either the tax or the per cenitum of the gross receipts of the Illinois Central railroad and branches, as stipulated in its charter. Now, that is a part of this question upon which gentlemen say the whole State is unite(I-fior which they can all vote. If we submit this proposition as it comes from the committee, to a vote of the people separately, we have practically a division of the question for the people at the election to be called by this CLmvention. They can vote again~st this article if they choose, with the assurance that in N~ovember they will have ans (,pportunity of voting for a part of the~ article on w~hich it is claimed all are unlited, soethat, practie:~l ly the division of the question is already attained We propos~e that this Constitution we are framilag shall be sulbmitted to the vote of the p~eople prior to the November electron. Trhen the people living alo,ng the line o,f the road who are opp~osed to that part of the section occurring after the word "authoarity,"' in the sixth line, can vote against the wvhole section with the clealrest assurancee if they defeat it, they do nlot defeat the proposition to compel the Illin~ois Central railroad to pay seven per cent. of its gross earnings into the State treasury, for in November they can vote as they desire tax to compel this railro,ad to) pay its pecentagef into the State treasury. Mr. WAGONER. Mr. President: I move to lasy the amendmmlelt of the gentlemnal {tomg Cook [Mr. Cameron] upon thie table. I I s i i t t t r t i t I MA.Y 2, 1870. DEBATES AN.D PROCEEDINGS. 1619 p CONSTITUTIONAL C ONVENTION State shall have the whole of it, or allow the counties along the line of the road to retain the hope that at some future day they may receive at the hands of the Legislature some compensation for being deprived of the right to tax the property of the road for local purposes. With this protest against a double submission, I vote "Aye." The result was then announced-yeas, 33, nays 21-as follows: der one general resolutio n, requi ring Leg islatures of the States to vote for the whole s eries of amendments o r against the w hole of e. o e them. Some of these sections contained propositions that everybody was in favor of, w hile others we re objectionable to a large Abortion of the people. And I re Cmembe Sny er t ha t there was not a demooratic newspaper or a democratic politician through out the length and breadth of the land, who did not cr y out with a loud and emphatic voice against the injustice of tha t proposition. The n th ey com plained that they were compelled to vote against what was right or for what was wrong. Now, sir, to-day w he ha ve had the spec tacle r enewed and repeated wit h aggra vatioas upon this floor. We have had a section under consideration, a porteion of which ever y mem be r upon this floor, democratic, republi c a n and inde pendent, is i n favor of-a propos ition that no gen tleman occupying a seat upon this floor, nobody having the intere, t of the State at heart, would not heartily approve. We have submitted th e proposition in every possible shape, simp l y t he n aked proposition, and atsked for it s adoption, butthose gentlemen whose voices cried out lustily against the injustice of the fourteenth amendment have, as one man, stood up here and demanded that we shall vote in favor of a clause that our judgments and consciences disapprove, or vote against a clause that our judgments and consciences do approve. Is it fair? Is it right? Is it just? Every man upon this floor is in favor of the first part of the section down to the word "authority," in the sixth line, where follows a distinct and seperate proposi tion, not necessarily connected with the first part, upon which there are diverse and conflicting views. Yet these gentle men force us to vote against what we ap prove or for what we disapprove. Mr. ROSS. I rise to a question of or der. What is the questionpendidg; The PRESIDENT. The Chair was about to say, wh-n the gentleman from Fulton [Mr. Ross] rose, that criticism on the action of the Convention heretofore, is not within the proper line of discu~iion on the question of committing to the Committee on Revision and Adjustment. The gentleman will confiLe himself strictly to the question. Mr. TURNER. There is no reason why all that portion of section one, down to the word "authority, in the sixth line, should not be submitted with the balance of this article. Mr. ROSS. I'hat is not pending. The PRESIDENT. The only question is upon referring to the Comrmittee on Revision an d Adj,ustment. Mr. TUJRNER. I am aware of that} Mr. Presid lnt, but the first section was referred to a committee, and I insist that the remainder of the article shall not be acted upon o~r referred to the Committee upon Revision and Adjustment, until the other committee has reported. There may bie a spark of justice and of fairness in that committee, and they may report this section back, with a recommendation that so mnuch thereof as we all agree upon shall go into the Constitution with the remainder of the article. I am, therefore, entirely opposed to having the article submitted or referred to the Committee on Revision and Adjustment, until the committee to whom The PRESIDENT. The questi on is upon laying the amendment of the gentleman from Cook [Mr. Cameron] upon the table. The amendment proposed by the gentleman from Cook [Mr. Cameron] is that the Committee upon Schedule be instructed to report a proposition for the submission of the last clause, or so much of section one as follows the word "authority," separately. The question is upon laying the amendmenit upon the table. The yeas and nays were ordered, and, being taken, resulted-yeas, 35, nays 19 -as follows: Abbott, Fox, Allen, of Crfd.,Fuller Anderson, Hay, Benjamin, McCoy Browning, Mc D o well, Bryan, Merriam, Buxton, Medill, Cody, Parker, Cummings, Parks, Eldredge, Peirce English, Poage, NAYS. Fuller, Sherrill, ,wfd, Haines of Lake,Snyder, Hankins, Springer, Hay, Tubbs, Hildrup, Underwood, McDowell, Vandeventer, Merriam, Wagner, Parks, Wait, Peirce, Washburn, Ross, Wilson ledgwick, Wrighlt-35. Sharp, NAYS. Gamble, Parker, Goodell, Tincher, Haines of CookTruesda]e, Hart, Turner, McCoy, Wendling, Medill, Whiting-19. Gamble, Snyder, Goo d ell, Tincher, Hai nes ofCook, Trues dale, Haines of L'k, Tur ner, Hart, - Wagner, Hankins, Wait, Hildrup, Wendling-21. BSENT, OR NOT VOTING. 1x.,Goodhue, Robinson, Hanna, Scholfield, Harwood, Skinner, Hayee, Springer, King, Sutherland, Moore, Wall, Neece, Wells, Perley, Wheaton, Pillsbury, Mr. President-29. Rice. So the motion of Mr. Bryan to commit section one to the Committee on Schedule, with instructions to report a provision for separate submission, was agreed to. Mr. BRYAN. Mr. President: I move that the Convention do now adjourn. The motion was not agreed to. Mr. ALLEN, of Crawford. Mr. President: I move that the other sections be committed to the Committee on Revision and Adjustment. Mr. TURNER. Mr. President: I do not know whether that course ought to be taken now or not. The first section of this article has been referred to one committee, and I understand that other sections have been refered to another committee. The article is incomplete as it now stands. It will probably be better to retain it in the Convention. Mr. ALLEN, of Crawford. I suggest that when the Committee on Finance report the article back, it can be taken up as the gentleman desires There can be nothing gained by retaining the section in the hands of the Convention. Mr. TURNER. Mr. President: The debate this afternoon has developed a state of facts that will probably lead to some very radical changes in this section, as well as in some other sections. It has transpired, in connection with the debate upon this subject, that there is a manifest intention on the part of a portion of this Convention, to place another portion of it in an exceedingly false and unpleasant position. Sir, I recollect that when the fourteenth amendment to the Constitution of the United States was submitted, contrary to the rule that had before prevailed that each section should be submitted separately, that amendment, consisting of three or four separate sections,was submitted un All en of Alex.,Goodhue, Anthony, Hanna, Archer, Harwood, Atkins, Hayes, Bowman, King, Brown, Msore, Coolbaugh, Neece, Craig, Perley, Dement, Pillsbury, Ellis, Poaze. 1620 31ONDAY) TEAS. Ross, Sed,wick, Shrp, Sherrill, Tubbs, Underwood, Vandeventer, Washburn, Whiting, Wilson, Wright-33. TEs. Bayne, Bowman, Cameron, Cary, Church, Cross, Forman, Bayne, Benjamin, Bromwell, Cameron, Cary' Eldredge, Forman, 'Allen, of Antho-Dy, Archer, Atkins, Bromwell, Brown, Coolbaugh, Craig, Dement, Ellis, ABSENT, OR NOT TOTING. Rice, Robinson, Scholfield, Skinner, . Sutherland, Wall, Wells, Wheaton, Mr. Presideiit-29. So the motion of Mr. Wagnp-r, to lay upon the table the amendment offered by Mr. Cameron, was agreed to. Mr. WASHBURN. Mr. President: I move the previous question upon the motion to commit. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the motion to commit to the Committee on the Schedule, with instructions -to submit the flrst proposition to the people separately. The previous question is moved. The motion for the previous question was agreed to, and the main question ordered. The yeas and nays were ordered. The Secretary proceeded to call the roll. lir. BENJAMIN (when his name was called) said: Mr. President: I would like to explain my vote. The proposition is to submit two questions when only ()ne question is in dispute among us. We are unanimously in favor of securing to the State treasury this fund against any release of the Iflinois Central railroad. Whv, then, submit this portion of the Bectlo-u? The Only question, in my opinion, which ought to be submitted, is the question as to whether or not this fund shall be appropriated and set apart for the payment of the ordinary expenses of the State, and for no other'purpose whatever. 11. seems that there are gentlemen here who would sooner lose the whole of this fund, by refusing to submit that question separately, than let the people pass upon he naked question, as to whether the DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. Mr. ROSS. Mr. President: While a section is under the control of this Convention it can be referred as we please. The President decided the other day in a like case that a section could be laid on the table. Mr. HAINES, of Lake. Mr. President: I raise a question there. It is an act done; there is nothing more to do so far as we are concerned. We have agreed that it shall become a part of the Constitution now, and we refer it to the committee only to put it in order. Mr. ALLEN, of Crawford. Mr. President: Will it be in order to move that it lie on the table till the Finance Committee have completed their work? Mr. ROSS. Mr. President: I will say that I think it will be satisfactory to the chairman of the Committee on Revenue, to have this referred to the Committee on Finance. Mr. HAY. Mr. President: I understand the motion to be to refer to the Committee on Finance. I favor that motion. I think I speak the sentiment of the Revenue Committee, when I say they have done their duty upon the article, and want some other committee to take charge of it now. I think it would be well enough to have some amendments that have been adopted, reviewed by a committee that will carefully consider them, and report the whole subject to the Convention before we take final action upon it. The PRESIDENT. The Chair will say that it regards the article as subject to the action of the Convention, either to lay it on the table or to commit it. Mr. ALLEN, of Crawford. Mr. President: I move that the third, fourth, fifth, sixth, eighth and ninth sections lie upon the table until after the report of the Committee on Finance on the second section. The PRESIDENT. The rules place the whole matter under the control of the Convention, including the motion to commit. Mr. CODY. Mr. President: I rise to a question of order. The question pending is to refer the whole article, except the first section, to the Committee on Finance. The question being on the motion of Mr. Allen, of Crawford, that the third, fourth, fifth, sixth, eighth and ninth sections of the report of the Committee on Revenue be laid on the table until after the Committee on Finance report on the; second section, it was agreed to. that is in Thee, and commend ourselves to Thv care and keeping. O, God, King and Governor of the universe, and infinite and holy as Thou art, we would yet approach Thee without fear, and worship Thee in smiple confidence and truth. May the prayers of our hearts prevail in the iIparting of Thy blessing upon this Co,nvenvion, and may their labors result not only in Thv glory and honor, but in the happiness and welfare,'or all time, of the people of this cormon wealth. -0 Lordd, tlolive us our sins, incline our hearts unto Thee, guide us and direct us in all our ways, and finally save us, we beseech 'Tlhee, in that kingdom of all lfe and glory above, through Jesus Christ, our Lord and Savior. Amen. R,EADING OF THE JOURNAL. The Secretary proceeded to read the journal of the last day's proceedings, when_ Mr. SHARP. Mr. President: I move that the further readiig of the journal be dispensed with. The motion was agreed to. PROHIBITOIRY LIQUOR LAWS. Mr. TURNER presented a petition from sf large number of prominent citizens of Freeport, asking a provision to allow citizens of municipal corporations to vote on prohibiting the sale of liquors. The petition was referred to the Committee on Municipal Corporations. NEW STATE HOUSE. Mr. CHAURCH. Mr. Pres ident: I am .instructed by th e ConlSiuittee on Accounts and Expenditures to submit the followirLg report. The Secretary read the report, as follows: ARTICLE-. bEc. -. The General Assembly shall not appropriate out of the State treasury, or expended on account of the new capitol grounds and State house, a sunm excee(dirng in the aggregate three and a half millions of dollars. inclusive of all appropriations heretofore made, without first submitting the proposition for an additional expenditure, to the legal voters of the State at a general election, nor unless a majority of all the votes cast at such election shall be for the proposed additional expenditure. Air. CHUIRCH. MSr. President: The committee to whom was referred a section similar to this, introduced by the gentleman from DceKalb [Mr. Sedgwick], have directed me to report this section to the Convention. I will take this occasion to say, by direction of the committee, that before acting upon the section authorizing this report, we called upon the State house commissioners, and received from them such information as they had to comm'lnicate upon the present condition and prospects of the State house, and also examined into the condition of the proposed State house. We find that the question is not an open question, that the matter has proceeded so far that whatever may have beed the policy of undertaking to build the State house, at such great expense, the work has, at this time proceeded sO far that the State cannot go back. We find on investigation, that this State house, in which we are assembled, has been sold. We find that there are contracts now extanit, made with persons, contractors, and that large expenditures have been made, so that whatever may have been the policy or propriety of the undertaking in the first place, anything looking to the stoppage of the work now, would undoubtedly occasion greater loss to the State, and inflict more unntc ADJOURNMENT. Mr. ENGLISH. Mr. President: I move : that the Convention do now adjourn. - The motion was agreed to. So th e Convention (at five o'clock a nd thirty-four minutes) adjourned. the sec tion is referred has reported, when t he qu estion will come up whe ther ges tlemet must be placed in this false position or not. Mr. iMIERRIAM. Mr. President: I wish to move, if in order, to re-consider section seven of the article upon coun ties, which was adopted last Friday, and I will explain, very briefly, why I wish to do so. Mr. ALLEN, of Crawford. I rise to a point of order. There is another mo tion now pending, which is the mo tion to commit the article which has just been acted upon. The PRESIDENT. There is an ex press rule that a motion to reconsider shall take precedence of any pending question, except a motion to adjourn. The gentleman is in order. The Chair will entertain the motion simply to enter it upon the record, so that the gentleman will not be precluded by the two days' rule. Mr. BROMWELL. Mr. President: That article has been referred to the Committee on Revision, and unless the gentleman makes a motion to discharge that committee, the article is not accessible to a motion to reconsider. The PRESIDENT. The gentleman can move to reconsider the actions of the Convention, by which the section was committed to the Committee on3 Revision and Adjustment, then enter his motion to reconsider, and thereby accomplish his object. Mr. MERRIAM. I will make the motion in that shape then. Mr. CODY. Mr. President: I desire to suggest the propriety of referring the whole of the article, not otherwise referred, to the Committee on Finance. The second section of the article is already re. ferred to that committee, and to the fifth section of this article an amendment has been adopted, in regard to which, in con versation with some of the best legal gentlemen on this floor, I find there is some doubt about the propriety of; and as only a part of it is to be referred now, it seems to me the better course will be to keep the balance of the report, except what is referred to the Committee on Schedule, together, until it goes to the Committee on Revision and Adjustment. Mr. ALLEN, of Crawford. I will withdraw my motion, then. I want the whole article to go together. iMr. CODY. I move the whole article, except the first section, be referred to the Committee on Finance. Mr. HAINES, of Lake. I understand the sections have been adopted by the Convention. The PRESIDENT. The sections have been adopted. Mr. HAINES, of Lake. Is it competent to refer a section, after it hlas become the sense of the Convention? The PRESID:ENT, It has bwecome the sense of the Convention, but not passed from its control. It is still competent to comit, or to do what it pleases to do withl it. Mr. HAINES, of Lake. Mr. President: The motion is not to commit for revision, but merely to re-commit. Having been adopted as the sense of the Convention, it is an act done. According to our rules, no action can be entertained, except to refer it to3 the Committee on Revision and Adjustment for the purpose of having it it} the Constitution. 4O6 EIGHTY-SIXTH DA Y. TUiESDAY, May 3,1870. The Convention met at nine o'clock, A. M., and was called to order by the President. PRA&YER. Prayer was offered by the Rev. Mr. Lombard, of Springfieid, as follows: Holy and Infinite Father! as the sun rises and governs the day, and lighteth man to his labor until the evening, we, resuming our daily duties, would seek the greater light i 1621 MAY 2) 1870. a. o 1622~~ OSTITTOA xO~ O TUEDAY Mr. WHIITING. There was no vote taken upon the matter? The PRESIDENT. None whatever. Mr. WHITING. I wish, sir, to make a few remarks upon that before it shall be disposed of. The PRESIDENT. The usual dispo sition has been made of it. According to the request of the gentle man from MHenry [Mr. Church], it has been laid- upon the table, no objection being made, and two hundred copies or dered printed, under the standing order of the Convention. Mr. WHITING. Are remarks in or der. The PRESIDENT. They are not, at the present time. Of course it is compe tent to move to take it from the table, and base any proposition upon it, or rather, it would be in order if the gentleman from JoDaviets [Mr. Cary] were not enti tled to the floor. Mr. WHITING. Then I am not entitled to make any motion? The PRESIDENT. No motion is in order, at the pretent time. IMIISCELLANEOUS CORPORATIONS - WARE ROUSES. Mr.CARY. Mr. President: In connec tioon with the report of the gentl er and from MlcHenry [Mr. Church], there was also the warehouse article to be taken up simultaneously. I move, therefore, that we take them up seriatinm, and I propose we first take up the warehouse article. Mr. BUXTON. I move to amend that the Convention resolve itself into Com mittee of the Whole, for the consideration 'of the report on railroads. A division was ordered. The Convention divided, when, there being twenty-two in the affirmative and , twenty in the negative, the amendment offered by Mr. Buxton was agreed to. The question being upon the motion of Mr. Cary, as amended, it was agreed to. So the Convention, as in Committee of the Whole (Mr. Peirce in the chair), pro ceeded to consider the report of the Com mittee upon Miscellaneous Corporations. The report is as follows: ARTICLE A. SECTION 1. All elevators or storehouses where grain or other property is stored for a compensation, are declared to be, and shall be deemed public warehouses. SEac. 2. The owner, lessee or manager of each and every public warehouse shall make weekly statements'under oath, before some officer to be designated by law, and keep the - same posted in some conspicuous place in the office of such warehouse, and shall also file a copy for public examination in such place as shall be designated by law, which statement shall correctly set forth the amount and grade of each and every kind of gr'ain in such wareI house, together with such other property as may be stored therein, and what warehouse receipts have been issued and are at the time of making such statement outstanding there for, and shall on the copy posted in the wareT house, note daily such changes as may be b made in the quantity and grade of grain in such warehouse. SEC. 3. The board of trade of any city or *town whoerea public warehouse is located, 3 mat appoint committees wheneve- it may de sire, who shall have full power to inspect the books of any warehouse whenever said board - shalldeem it necessary, and the owners of property stored in any warehouse, or holder of receipt for same, shall always be at liberty to examine such property stored, and all the books and records of the warehouse, and the T agents, clerks, and employees may be exam ined under oath, as to the said books, records and propert y epuder such rules and regula tions~as may be prescribed by law. SEc. 4. All railroad companies, and other common carriers, shall be required to weigh grain into the cars at points where it is ship ped and receipt for the amount, and be held responsible for the delivery of the amount re ceived at the place of destination. SEC. 5. All railroads receiving and trans porting grain, shall be required to deliver the same to any elevator or public warehouse to which it may be consigned, provided such elevator or pub:lic warehouse can be reached by any track owned, leased, or use-d, or which can be used by said railroad; and all railroads shall permit connections to b)e made with their track so that any public warehouse may be reached by the cars on said railroad, pro vided such connection is authorized by the legal authorities of any town or city in which such connection is desired. SEc. 6. The board of trade or other com mercial organization of any town or city, to be designated by law, shall have power to make such rules in regard to the inspection of grain as may be just and proper, for the protection of producers, shippers, and re ceivers of gra in. SEc. 7. It shall be t he duty of the Legisla tCnre to pass a ll necessary l aw s to give full effect to this article of the Constitution, which shall be liberally construed so as to protect p ro ducers a nd shipp ers. Mr. CARY. Mr. Chairman: This is a matter of very great importance to ev ery grain producer, grain dealer and far mer in the Statr of Illinois, who has any thing to do with selling or shipping grain. Elevators and warehouses have got to be great monopolies. The eleva tor men control the whole grain trade of the northwest, and control it in such a manner that it becomes necessary, for the welfare of the people of this State, and of all who do business with the grain dealers of the State, that thev should have some protection. It has been said, sir, that there is tco much legislation in this article. But, sir, there is no more legislation here than in many other articles that we have passed. And if there is legislation in it, it is leg. islation for the great mass of the people of the State. This matter, sir, of shipping grain, as many gentlemen may not, perhaps, be aware, has fallen into the hands of a few elevator men, and I have been informed that even men who own elevators and ship their own grain, have been obliged to pay tribute to other men who, own elevators, before they could get it into their own elevators. Abuses of various kinds have arisen in this system, until they have beceme too great to be borne. -Members on this floor have told me of i~nstances of the extortions which they and their constituents h~ave suffered. One honorable gentleman has given me an in stance like this: That one of his neigh boers shipped two car-loads of grain to Chicago), precisely alike, v~ld and dry corn. When it got there, be tells nix that one car-load was inspected as num ber one, and the other, precisely like i~, was rqi ected, making a d ifference of ten or fifteen cents per bushel to the producer. Another honorable gentleman on this floor has told me (of shipping a carload of wheat to Chicago, which, when weighed out, fell short, on one car load, fifty-one bushels. This article proposes to do away with a number of these outrages. In the first place, all elevators are declared to be public, so that owners and shippers can go and examine them, see in what condition their grainl is, what amount therein stirred, axnd how the books are kept, beca1use it is fo~r the public good that they should have this right. I~t proposes that essary burdens upon the people, than to hav e it completed, if it can be completed within the limits contemplated. From the infor mation f urnis hed to us by th e Sta te hous e commissioners, we have no reason to doubt that it can be, and that such is the contemplation. I will read the figures that they gave to us. The estimate given to us of the building now in process of construction, is $2,737,939 86. That is the cost of the building exclusive of the cost of the ground and exclusive of the pay of the commissioners, superintendents, architects and other current expenses of its erec tiOn. The amount actually expended up to this time is $532,192 39. There are now contracts let, which at the estimate amounted to $280,510. Those contracts have been let at $222,050, being a saving ,of $58,460 less than the $280,000 in cluded in the estimate, being a saving of nearly twenty-five per cent. on the esti mate as far as it has gone. Should the same amount of saving be continued, it will amount to nearly $600,000 on the estimate, and the cost of constructing the building should be about $600,000 less than the estimate. The passage of the act last winter sought to limit the whole expenditure on account of the State house to $3,000,000, exclusive of what had been previously expended. We find that previous to that time there had been appropriated $450,000, which added to the limitation, amounts to $3,450,000. The section which the committee have directed me to report, is designed to include not only the cost of the building according to the estimate, but the cost of the grounds, and all other costs and ex penditures, attending not only the build iDg, but also the finishing and furnishing of the whole grounds, the furnishing Of the building and everything connected with it. They have not instructed me to report any recommendation in regard to the adoption of the section, but to reportthe section and these facts, by which I think the Convention will be able to see that the $3,500,000 is ample to finish and complete the whole concern, without loss to the State or without trammeling in any manner the work, if proper economy is observed. It is for the Convention to determine whether this limitation should go into the Constitution, arnd prevent ens travagant appropriatio~ns or undertakings hereafter. I know that there is much uneasiness existing in the public mind with reference to this undertaking, and great-fears that the expenses may be much greater than appears on paper. I move, sir, that the report be laid upo,n the table, an~d the usual number be print ed for the consideration of the Convention. The PRESIDEZNT. It will lie upon the table, and two hundred copies be printed under the standin~g order. Mr. CARY. Mr. President- As I understand, there are two or three mlatters to be taken up in connection with railroads. Mr. WHITING. Mr. President: I wvoald inquire what disposition was made of the report of the gentleman from McE~enry [Mr. Church]? The PRESIDENT. It was laid on the table, and two hundred copies ordered to be printed.~ t s I s c t e t f f 8 a 11 TUESDAY, CONSTITUTIONAL CON'VENTION 1622 MAY 3, 1870 DEBATES A~D flOGEEDJGS. 1q23 the fact that there are certain common carriers from whom no trouble arises, and that the section would make it very diffit cult, perhaps impossible,for somne of them to comply with the requirements therein as to weighing- for they have no facili ties. The sixth section we propose to strike out entirely. That lea-es all the matters connected with the board of trade stricken out. I move, sir, the adoption of the first section. Mr. TURNER. Some time ago it was intimated to me, that some gentleman had prepared a bill of this kind to in troduce here, but I had not the opportu nity of seeing it until last Saturday, and I hope the committee will indulge me if I overruin a little the five minutes allowed to me in explanation of this article. Every member here knows that I have never asked such indulgence before, and that I have nlever attempted to speak longer than the time allowed by the, rules. I regard this measure as one of the most dangerous elements that has been introduced into this Convention. It is,h sir, the grain gamblers' article. In order that this Convention may fully appre ciate the mischief which this article seeks to perpetuate, I will state a few facts in regard to the system of grain dealing in Chicag,, Buffalo, Albany; New York, and other cities. Although I say nothing against boards of trade, as such, because they are honor able, upright men, there hlas, within the last few years, grown up, in connection with them a class of men known as gold gamblers. They buy and sell gold with out any intention of ever deliverin i it, but solely for the purpose of receiving, tupon the rise or fall of it in the market,t he miargin. From these gold boards grew up what may be called grain boards, who buy and sell grain precisely in the same manner. They are leeches upon comr merce and the community, that suck the life blood out of the farmers and dealers in grain, without contributing anything towards the general wealth or productions of the country. They swarm like lice upon the body politic and feed and fat ten upon its substance. They make their money out of the farmers and those who produce grain, by selling it without any intention of ever moving it, or of having anything in the world to do with it, ecxcepting totake or pay the margin which is created by their gambling operations. These speculators pry into the state of the market, and if the supply is short, they buy up whatever there is in the market, put up the price, and as it is called "bull the market." If the grain market is flush, M they crowd it upon the market as rapidly as upossible, and the prices come down,and that is what is called "bearing the market;" so that the bulls and bears gain and loose alternately as the one or the other control the prices. This has grown to be a monstrosity ill the commercial world. It has controlled and ruined thousands of operators ln the gold, grain and cattle markets, and honest business men have no power to compete with those gamblers. Now, a short time ago, there was a large amount of grain to be purchased ior the government. Advertisements were posted to the effect that the government required a iarge amount of oats. A few woealthy men in the board of trade of Chicago, or rather ia this grain gambling operation, having access to one of the most powerful banks in that city, for all the money they required, agreed togeth er to buy all the oats in the market. It happened that at that very time the country dealers had large amounts of oats in store, tha t had not been sent to Chica go. The bear interest, desiring to break the corner, and to Lcake a corner for themselves, telegraphed all overthecoun try for these merchants to send forward their grain to Chicago, and in that way succeeded in getting a large am-ounat of gr ai n receipts, when the corner was b roken,,an d the bull int erest, instead of making fifty thousand dollars, as they ex pected, actually lost about forty thousand dollars in the operation. These same men came here, and, smarting under their loss, prepared this article, and had it present. ed in manuscript, and that is the wary it was introduced into the Convention. Now let us look at its provisions, and see how it affects the farmer. The fir-st 8ec. tion provides that all hbouses where grain is stored, for pay, shall be public ware houses, which will effectually deprive the farmer of the right to have his grain stored separately fromn other grait, but mix all together, the good and the bad. Mr. MERRIAM. Mr. Chairmanl: I ob ject to the getitleman's proceeding. MIr. McCOY. Mr. Chairman: I ha,ve five minutes which I will give the gentle man to go on. Mr. TURNER. The next, Mr. Chair man, is as follows: SEC. 2. The owner, lessee or manager of each and every public warehouse, shall mnake weekly statements, under oath, before some officer to be designated by law, and keep the same posted in some conspicuous place in the office of such warehouse, and shall also file a copy for public examination in such place as shall be designated by law, which statement shall correctly set forth the amount and grade of each and every kind of grain in such warehouse, together with such other property as may be stored therein, and what ware house receipts have- been issued, and are at the time of making such statement outstand: ing therefor; and shall on the copy posted in the warehouse, note daily such changes aS may be made in the quantity and grade of grain in such warehouse. Well, now, that is imposing a great burden upon warehouse men, and for whose benefit? We shatll see. Not for the benefit of the farmer, for he is not there to see his grain. But we shall see for whose benefit it is. The next section iS_ BSE. 3. The board of trade of any city or town where a public warejhouse is located, may appoint committees whenever it may desire, who shall have full power to inspect the books of any wareho~use whenever said board shall deem it necessary. Mr. C ARY. Mr. Chairman: I call the attention of the gentleman to the fact that his remarks do not apply to the section under consideration, but the nest section:. those words are stricken out. Mr. TURNER. "The board of trade," Mr. Chairman, of any city or town where a public warehouse is located, may appoint committees whenever it may desire, who shall have full power to inspect the books of any warehouse whenever said board shall deem it necessary. That is the law nlow; but mask you further And the owners o ropertyo stored in any warehouse? or holder of receipt lor same, shall always be at liberty to exa~mine such property stored and alr the books and records of the wrarehouse, an~d the agents. clerks and employees Say be e!xam~ired under oath as to the said books, records ad property} uddler railroads on receiving grain, shall give receipts for the amount received, and be held responsible for delivering it to the place of destination, the.qaume as other articles which are shipped by railroads. It proposes that the owners of eleva tors shall make a written statement un der oath, showing what grain they have in store, and what receipts for grain are issued and outstanding therefor, because, sir, it is currently stated, I know not how correctly, that receipts are sometimes issued where there is no grain to base them on, and that the community has suffered great losses therefrom. This ex periment, at least can do no harm. It is further proposed, sir, in order that there shalt be no advantages taken by warehouse and elevator agents and owners, that this provision shall be incorporated therein. It is proposed that their books shall be liable to be examined by the -owners of grain and other commodities in store, and that if it is necessary, the Legislature shall make such provision as may be required in order to examine the clerks and employeesto see that the own ers of properties are not damaged. Mr. WAIT. Before the gentleman sits down, I wish he would give a definition of a public warehouse. Mr. CARY. A public warehouse, as herein contemplated, is one which is open to all persons interested to examine into the condition and amount of grain there in st-l ed. There was a law passed in 1867 which divided warehouses, so that those where in grain was mixed, were classed as pub lic, and those where grain was kept in separate bins were clas,ed as private Now, we propose all shall be public, not that the grain shall all be mixed, but that whethier mixed or kept separate, that they shall be public in order that those interested may know where their property is and how it is taken care of., To show that this article is necessary, the Chicago Tribune tells us that the board of trade anld the grain dealers of Chicago tried to have grain receipts registeredt, tried to have some of these sate. guards that we propose to put in this article adopted by the elevator owners, but that they refused, sir, until the article was reported; and the Tribune tells us as proof that this is what the community demaned, that after this article was reported, the elevator owners or managers agreed to the demands of the board of trade, provided the article should be withdrawn; that they were w illing to grant a temporary relief all order to prevent a permanent one.' The people say: "Gentlemen, this thing cannot be done; we cannot leave this matter to the uncertainties of legislation, but we demland, the people demand, that it Should be put into the Constitution" —and sir, in order that the people may be protected in their rights, we propose to put this in the Constltution. There are two or three amendments to this article which I propose to make with the consent of the committee. In section three, we propose to strike~ out the first, second and third lines, except the -last word "Lthe," that referring to the board of trade. We have concluded that we will have nothing to do with the board -of trade, particularly in the article of the Consstitution. Ill section four, after the word "companies,"J we propose to strike n)ut "and other common carriers," fro; DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1623 MAY 31 1870 1624 ()ONSTITUIIOAL CONYTIO TUESDAY, Mr. ALLEN, of Crawfi)rd. Mr. Chairman: I am not very familiar with the mode of doing business in Chicago, as there is but little shipping from my section of the State to that point. One thing, however, cannot be questioned-that is, that there has been from all portions of the State that have business relations with Chicago, a very general pressure for relief upon this question — not from the board of trade, as the gentleman from Stephenson [Mir. Turner] has c harged, for since the very organization of this Convention, from all these arteries of trade entering in Chicago, there has been petition after petition, which -as been laid on our table and referred to the proper committee, asking this Convention to give the farming interest arnd the traders some relief against the conduct of the warehousemen at Chicago. This fact cannot be concealed. Whethe r this plan proposed by the committee, on this subject, is the best plan to accomplish that purpose or not, I am not prepared to say. I am not fa miliar enough with corners and rings,} and manipulations to speak authentically upon a subject of this kind. I suppose my friend from Stephenson [Mr. Turner], however, is. What I desire to say is, that when he charges that this movement was instigated by the board of trade, it is in my judgment ui,just to that great mass of the citizens of the State, includirg the traders, who have petitioned us, day after day until now, to afford.them some relief. He says the Legislature has power to regulate these things. I grant it, but it is a power that they have refused to exercise. with the pressure brought upon them, from time to time, from the other interests of the State, and it is not unreasonable to say that in the future, unless there is some provision in the organic law, they will still refuse this relief. The gentleman objects to this proposi — tion, because it allows men who deal in grain in Chicago, to know, from day to day, how much grain is in store, and precisely the condition of the market. But while it does this, it affords the producer and the country dealer who has grain stored there, the same facilities to determine whether it is his interest to sell or hold over to another day. It is, then, a wise provision, a wholesome provision, so far as concerns the protection of those men who have grain stored in the warehouses of Chicago, for it is just as much protection to them as it is of value to those who are gambling in grain, in the language of the gentleman from Stephenson [Mr. Turner]. Suppose we have no provision of this character. It is utterly impossible for a shipper of grain to tell how much there is upon the market. The warehouse books and the mouths of the warehousemen are closed upon the subject, to the producer and shipper, but open to the grain dealer, the grain speculator, the grain gambler. I ask the gentleman from Stephenson [Mr. Turner] if these boards of trade are Cconnected with the warehousemen, if they have facilities which enable them to tell how much grain is stored in the warehouses, do not the shippers of grain need some mode of knowing how much there is on hand, and whether there is a prospect of a rise or fall in the market? The very argument of the gentleman comes back to him as aa argument in such rules and regulations as may be p rescribe d by law. T hi s bo ard of trad e may appoint men every day to sy to p a o e very warehouseman's business, to require every clerk in every warehouse to go before an officer and there be examined, as the committee may direct, as fully as if under a dedimus potestatem. Section four reads as follows: SEC. 4. All railroad companies and other common carriers shall be required to weigh grain into the cars at points where it is shipped, and receipt for the amount, and be held responsible for the delivery of the amount received, at the place of destination. That is precisely what the law now is, but this is put in as a bait, to catch some thing else. SEc. 5. All railroads receiving and transporting grain shall be required to deliver the same to any elevator or public warehouse to which it may be consigned, provided such elevator or public warehouse can be reached by any trackowned, leased or used, or which can be used by such railroad; and all railroads shall permit connections to be made with their track. so that any public warehouse may be reached by the cars on said railroad, provided such connection is authorized by the legal authoritiesofany town or city in which such connection is desired. That is precisely what the law is-and what follows 9 SEC. 6. The board of trade or other commercial organization of any town or city, to be designated by law, shall have power to make such rules in regard to the inspection of grain as may be just and proper, for the protection of producers, shippers and receivers of grain. SEC. 7. It shall be the duty of the Legislature to pass all necessary laws to give full effect to this article ofthe Constitution, which shall be liberally construed so as to protect producers and shippers. ["Object," "Obiject."] Mr. TURNER. I have only this'much to say in conclusion — ["Object," "Object."] The CHAIRMAN. There being objection, it is the duty of the Chair to interfere and enforce the rules. Yr. UNDERWOOD. Mr. Chairman: x give the gentleman my time. Mr. TURNER. Mr. Chairman: My ,objection to it is this The CtEAIRMAN. The gentleman may proceed, if the committee consents. Mr. TURNER. There may be some abuses, and doubtless there have been, but the law can remedy and provide against all of them. But, gentlemen say, and I have heard it said in private conversation, that no law can be enacted on the subject, because the lobby will come and prevent it. What lobby:7 A farmers' lobby?v 1~o. A warehouse lobby? Yes. Then, I ask, in the name of common sense, why these warehouse men are not lobbying around here? The grain gamblers have been here; they were here when they drew up this article. ~Ir. Chairman, these things are or can be all provided for by law} and if there are any abuses} not provided for by law, they can be amply provided for as they arise and come to public notice. Everything of this kind that we put into the Con~stitution, not only weakens it before the people, blat binds the people to that -which they are acquainted with, and takes away from the General Assembly the power to do what may be necessaryin order to protect'the farmers against these grain-gamblers. This is,las I said!r befbre, a grain gamblers article, and Dot a farmars' article. i 1624 CONSTITUTIONAL CONVFNTION TUESDA-7, favor of the adoption of some provis;.on of this character. The gentleman objects to the fact that in this proposit-ioii w'e have given the board of tr-tde in the city of Cliic,-tgo and in other cities where the warehouses are established, the power to make rules iiind r( —gulations in reference to them. That has been stricken out by the committee, and lieijce the argument based upon that ot)jtctionable feature-if it be an objectio.p-ablefeature-falls to theground. I repeat, Sir, that I Pm not familiar enough with the niode of doing business in Chicago to,zpeak understandidgly on the question. I have only been speakidi.ti regard to the facts that cannot have escape-d the observation of any gentlem,. n. Petitions have been Coming in here from the COrilMeDCeMent Of the Session Up to a very rece:Lit period, askiijg the Convention to make a provision for the protectioii of the peoi,)Ie against the terrible losses wljich they have from time to time sustained, owii)g to the management of their affairs in these warehouses. Mr. SIIERRILL. Nir. President: I wish to slggest the addition of the fol1OWiDg words in the tenth line of the .II-St section: Add at the end of section two the following: "And on fititure of cot-npliance with thle above regulation, shall forfeit a sum not exceeding one thousand dollars." This addition tf, the section. will bring these men to time, aiid the section will be useless with,)ut it. If they took an oath it would -,in IDdia rubber one, construed by themselves to suit their own conscience, and they would take such by the quantity, as they do their whisky, straight, and with as little compunction as they would a chew of tobacco. Talk about the solemnity of an oath to a class of men whose business it is to cheat. One can scarcely find a warehouse on any railroad or canal in the State which does not openly and avowedly take more pounds per bushel than the law allowssixty pounds for corn, instead of fafty-f3ix, thirty five pounds for oats, instead of thirty-two, a-ii-d in the same proportion with all the grain they buy-and of this the farmers would not complain, if they could be satiqfied they lost no more. This has been the custom for years. One of our most extensive ra.n bu era MA 3, 180MEAE ~ ~CEJG.1~ in the interest of and for the protection of the farmers. The article reported by the gentleman from JoDaviess [Mr. Cary] from the committee of which he is chairman, provides, in the first place, that the public warehousemen of Chicago shall publish to the world, for the information of everybody, a statement of the amount of grain in store hells by them-of its various kinds, grades, etc. Canl there be any wrong done to anybody by that? Can it wrong the farmer in Fulton county who ships a thousand bushels of grain to Chicago, and holds it there, subject to the market, to require the warehousemen there to inform him and the public how many bushels of grain are in store, so that he may exercise his judgment about the best time to sell it? Does it wrong anybody to assert a principle like that? That is one point-the publicity given to the quantity of grain for sale in the market in Chicago) so that the owners of it can govern themselves accordingly, so that the temporary holders of it cannot handle or control that grain, in violation of law, against the pecuniary interest, and to the detriment of the absolute owners of it. It provides another principle-that railroads shall receipt for grain when delivered to them, and shall deliver the same amount of grain to such public warehouse in Chicago as it may be consigned to. Is there anything wrong in that principle? Is that a point in the interest of the grain gamblers? No, sir, it is a principle that involves the rights and protects the interests of the shippers of the grain. What are the facts, as they now stand? A railroad company will receive at any sation along the line of their road a carload of grain [Here the hammer fell.] Mr. BENJAMIN. Mlr. Chairman: I would raise a point of order that the resolution adopted yesterday relates to members of the Convention, and not to members of the Committee of the Whole, and that, therefore, a member of this committee can speak ten minutes. The CHAIRMAN. The Chair is compelled to decide that it was evidently the intention of the Convention to apply that rule to both the Committee of the Whole and the Convention. It says members of the Convention, acting in Committee ofl the Whole, or in Convention, shall speak only five minutes. Mr. ANDERSON. I do not intend occupying the time of the committee with aspeech, and I give to the gentlepman from Cook [Mr. Coolbaugh] my time. oMr. ROSS. I desire to raise the question of order, as to one member having the power to give another member his time. I think doing so is out of order. and that if any gentleman objects to over five minutes' debate, it cannot be indulged in, unless by suspending the rules by a two thirds majority. The CHAIRMAN. It is the opinion of the Chair that the point of order is well taken that only by common consent can one member give his time to another, and that if any objection is made, it cannot be allowed. s should ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ COSRUTO do somehin MINUT th rtcto feedfrtepups fcutnf CONSTRUCTION OF FIVE MrIUTE RULE. f Mr. HAYES. Mr. Chairman: I believe the rules adopted in Convention do of these complications of trade. There has been no investigation here, and I am sure that I am not so informed as to be able to give a vote that will satisfy myself. It is a subject that is completely under the control of the General Asse ably. Why not leave it to the General Assembly? .No doubt there are abuses existing, and abuses, I apprehend, on all hands. It is probable from the represenltations which have been made to us, that the warehouse men cheat, and that the grain brokers cheat, and that there is cheating and swiad~i'g everywhere, from the time the grain leaves the farm until it reaches the hands of the consumer, and no doubt some remedy ought to be applied-but what is the remedy? It is not a matter for a Constitution; it is not elemental -or fundamental law. It is mere police regulations, that has no more place in the Constitution than the provision of penalties for selling liquor. Now, the General Assembly, it is said, will not act. No doubt there are many gentlemen around me, who will be members of the next General Assembly. Will they not be as willing to act there as here? Will not the General Assembly be composed of precisely the same material of which this Convention is composed? Will not the members of the General Assembly come fresh from the people, as their representatives, and instructed as to their wants in legislation? We have had no instruction from them upon this subject, and were not sent here to act upon this subject. The General Assembly will possess one advantage that we have not, as they can appoint committees, and enter upon an investigation. They can send for worehousemen, for members of the board of trade, for grain-brokers, for farmers, elicit all the information that can be elicited upon this complicated sut,ject, and then be prepared to presribe just and properuremedies for the e-,vils tha t exist. Mr. COOLBAUGn. Air. Chairman: I desire to say a very few words on this But~lbect, anid I, will be brief as possible. I regard this question as one involving the interests of the people of the State, against corporations d a gains t monopolies. The gentleman from Stephenson [fr Turner], who was on n the floor a mewamiutes ag,sai thi.Weehate thise was ha~ve oet ino theineetf graing damlers i adgmlr fChicago. I doieeu note hsbee undse rsmthand cit,yMr whailea. dozenot up~dozensof peititonbes mrovmen iltheag itrsin rany sense, erspcal or thsczState, ofrm thoe peopleiofs where our grain did}s shipped feel, hae grmea delicayri intrumading thatf po this Convention. shuday dor soehairmn, for many daysectand or thll eeks intbehaforoests. Thave aroe two or thre grain-gamlers invoreeted inm that sujcity, whileconceive 4070t doeno peiin'~ h gi MAY 35 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1625 not apply to Committee of the Whole, unless the committee is specially mentioned. If the rules applied equally in both cases, then the motion for the pre. vious question would apply in Committee of the Whole. It is uot said anywhere in the rules that the previous qu-stion shall not be applied in Committee of the Whole, but it is parliamentary law that its committees shall be fi ee from the rules adopted by a parliamentary body, unless they are expressly mentioned. All the rules in relation to order and power of the chairman to enforce order would apply in Committee of the Whole, but the rules in regard to the limitation of time in regard to the priority of business, apply only iq, the Convention unless they are extended further by order of the Convention. This resolution says, that hereafter no member shall be allowed to speak for a lodger time than five minutes on any question. Now, upon that I think the Chair might be sustained by the phraseology of the resolution, as it is very broad — but I only rose to state what I understood to be parliamentary law, that the rule would not be applic,ible incommittee unless expressly mentioned. Mr. HITCHCOCK. Mr. Chairman: I have no doubt the, terms of the rule are quite broad euouoh to apply to members either acting in committee or Convention. Still I wish to call the attention of the Chair to the fact, that heretofore, in many instances, where the Convention has adopted rules applying to committee and Convention, it has expressly provided that they shall so apply, showing the intention, I think, on the part of the Convention, to only apply a rule to committee, by express terms. For that reason, when a similar questi.on arose once before, I gave a construction limiting the rule to the Convention, inasmuch as the Convention had not, in framing the rule, appled it expressly to the committee. For that reason, it seems to me that the rule should be applied simply to the Convention, and not to the Committee of'the whole. Mr. CA.NIERON. Mr. Chairman: As the responsibility of the resolution limit. iDg members to five miiiutes rpsts with me, inasmuch as I presented it, I must take exception to the construction of the t 1-Q C(NTfbI)A -TUSDaY That is not the only abuse that this article seeks to reform and correct. Un der the existing custom, railroad companies receiving grain from the farmer or shipper, do not hold themselves under any obligation to deliver it at all to the consignee in Chicago or elsewhere, and absolutely refuse to so deliver it. It is, as we all know, charged that almost every railroad running into Chicago, is interested in the management of and profits of nearly every elevator there, and the result is, that when trains reach Chicago with their grain, instead of delivering it elsewhere, they insist on delivering it to the elevator in the management and profits of which they have a pecuniary interest. Now, is it in the interest of the gamblers or of the shippers, to require the grain to be delivered to consignees Why, sir, in the interest of the shippers. Gentlemen may say this is a species of legislation. Well, if it is, I am glad we are legislating for once in the interest of the people against the extortions of corporations. Whenever we do that, anld raise that issue, I desire to put myself on the side of the people. But I deny that it is any more legislation than the people of the State require. It has been said by the gentleman from Stephenson [Mr. Turner], that the common law is a sufficient safeguard. What has the common law done in times past, Mr. Chairman, on this question? Is the farmer or the shipper of grain going to take a tilt for his rights with a corporation? What will become of our grain in the meantime? If it is legislation, it is in the interest of the people, and neces sary legislation. The rights of the people should be asserted in the fundamental law of the land, as plainly as the ten commandments are asserted in the scroll of human duties, so plainly that there can be no evasion, so plainly that he who runs may read. As I said before, Mr. Chairman, this is not an article proposed in the interest of the people of Chicago. It is in the interest of reform, which has been petitioned for by the people of the State, by the farmers and shippers of grain everywhere over the State, and we shall fail to meet the just expectations of the people, if we do not give them the relief they ask for. I hope, Mr. Chairman, that in the interest of the farmers and shippers of grain, some provision sufficient for their protection will be inserted in the Constitution we are framing. Mr. BROMWELL. Mr. Chairman: I would ask the gentleman one question: If he can assure the Convention that this article now pending is an article that will furnish the redress sought by these petitioners, or whether it is still uncertain what we are doing? We want to relieve them, but does this afford relief 9 Mr. COOLBAUGH. Mr. Chairman: I will reply, that I have no doubt that it will, measurably, afford that relief, and, I think, completely; but, if gentlemen think it incomplete, they can so alter it as to secure justice. Mr. CHURCH. Mr. Chairman: I suppose we are considering this, section by section. c The CHAIRMAN. The question is on section one. Mr. CHURCH. Mr. Chairman: Whatever may be said with regard to any other section of this article, we are now addressing our attention to section one alone. As I have considered the question, it does not appear obnoxious to tie objection that it is legislation. It contains, indeed, the affirmative proposition, that all warehouses shalt be public; but at the same time, does it not contain a negative -a prohibition against there ever being anything else? The gentleman from Adams [Mr. Browning] remarks, that this can be provided by the Legislature, and was so provided by the last General Assembly. But what hinders the next General Assembly from providing that they shall not be public warehouses, and even take away their common law character as such, and providing, on the contrary, that they shall be private warehouses -private interests, subject only to the regulation of the owner? Such may be the case if the General Assembly have the whole power on the subject, and undoubtedly they have, unless we limit their power. It is proposed by section one to do thisto so settle it that such warehouses shall be public warehouses, as such become subject to public uses, and be therefore entitled to all the legislation, all the privileges, all the reliefs and all the remedies, that can be sought by reason of their public uses, subject to the use of the people, open to everybody. I shall not now enter into the discussion of Section five further than I find necessary for the proper understanding of section one. Section five provides that SEc. 5. All railroads receiving and transporting grain shall be required to deliver the same to any elevator or public warehouse to which it may be consigned, provided such elevator or public warehouse can be reached by any track owned, leased or used, or which can be used by such railroad; and all railroads shall permit connections to be made with their tracks, so that any public warelhouse may be reached by the cars on said railroad, provided such connection is authorized by the legal authorities of any town or city in which such connection is desilred. My attention is called to this by reason of a late decision of the supreme court, that I find in the law library, not in the published reports. I find that the supreme court has decided that whenever a railroad company has a track connecting with a warehouse, or wherever a warehouse has provided itself with a track connected with the railroad, it shall be compelled to deliver the grain to that warehouse. It is not there determined how far warehousemen may connect themselves with railroads bv tracks built by themselves, if the rail'roads refuse to do it. N~either is it determined how far either the General Assemtbly or the courts can compel the railways to build tracks to connect with warehouses. But, sir, this will create a right whereky, whatever may have been the contract between the Legislature and the railroad company in giving them their charter — granting them extensive privileges to de. terminc what kind of side tracks and connections they will establish —it will give the sme right to every owner of a warehsouse that the Legislature now says railroads may have a right to establish a colmlection with the railroads whether the railroads will have it so or not. They have only to go to work under aultohority of law for the condemnation of the property and grounds of the company, to condemn the right of way 4,of the railroad Mr. CHURCH. With the pertnision of the gentleman, I would inquire whether he designed to have the resolution ap ply to any other committee besides the Committee of the Whole? I see no dif ference in principle. Mr. CAMERON. The gentleman is well aware there is a great difference betweeni the Commtttee of the Whole and other committees. As his own informatioln on that subject is so large, I cannot tell him anything that he does not know. Mr. BROiY[WELL. Mr. Chairii,an: It seems to me that if the Convention chooses to bind the Committee of the Whole, it can always do so by words. It always does. I have no recollection of rules which extend into committees. Mr. HAINES, of Lake. Mr. Chair man: I rise to a point of order. The question under debate has been decided by the Chair. The CHAIR-aqAN. The point of order has been decided by the Chair. Mr. UNDERWOOD. Mr. Chairman: The committee have adopted this rule, and it will be in force until changed. Mr. TINCHER. Mr. Chairman- The question has been deeided Mr. TRUESDALE. I respectfully appeal from the decision of the Chair. Mr. TI.NCHER. There is no appeal from the Chair in Committee of the Whole. Mr. UNDERWOOD. I wish to speak to the point of order. Mr. HAINES, of Lake. There is no point of order raised. Mr. ROSS. Mr. Chairman: I ask unanimous consent of the committee that the gentleman from Cook [Mr. Coolbaughl] be allowed to proceed if he desires to do so. The CHAIRMAJkN. It will be taken as the unanimous consent of the committee. If there is no objection the gentleman will proceed. WAREHOUSES, ETC.-AGAIN. Mr. COOLBAUGH. Mr. Chairman: I was proceeding to speak of some of the abuses that have grown up in the transportation of grain, which this article seeks to correct, and was illustrating my position by stating facts as to how the business is now carried on. The shipper of grain at the stations along the line of any of our important railroads, may deliver to the railroad company a car load of cornl or wheat, consisting of three hundred and fifty bushels. Whatever the common law may be ulpon the subject, under the existing law, and customs, the railroad companies are not held, in their own estimation, at least, at all responsible for the delivery of the samve quantity of grain that they receive. Hence, there are constant complaints coming up from farmers of the country, of short weights upon shipments to Chicago and elsewhere. They claim that they are defrauded by the railroads out of three, four, five or ten bushels of grain, per car load. This article declares that the railroad company shall receipt to the farmer for the actual amount of grain received from him, shall he obliged to deliver the same .quantity to the consignee, and shall be responsible to the owner for the deft-, ciency, if it falls short. Is that in the interest of the, grain gamblers and speculators, or in the interest of the farmer, producer and shipper? Certainly the latter class._ 1626 CONSTIT-UTIONAL CONVENTION TUESDAY, MA,17)DBTSAX RCEIG.1 tion should be made, it will have to be made. There is 1o doubt about that. And that, sir, applies to another franchise. If the railway companies have now obtained a contract from the State, by which they have the exclusive right, which I do not admit, to fix the amounts of tolls and rates for transportation, I insist, sir, that the same power which allows that franchise, may seize and condemn it for the purpose of making it a free road where heretofore it has been a turnpike, or a railroad, or a toll bridge. The doctrine is well established that this very franchise, by which a company is allowed to charge its own rates, may be condemned and reduced to the condition of a free road. Then, sir, may we not go one-half that distance if any companies in this State have obtained from the State such an agreement that the courts say that they have the exclusive right to do this thing, condemn that portion of the franchise which gives them any such exclusive right, reduce it to the control of the Legislature, and thereby render the road either enti.rely free, or free from the absolute and exclusive control of the companies and subject them to law as they ought to always have been, whereby they may be made either a free road, or subject to such laws as will be for the interest of the whole public, and also their stockholders. I believe that the real interest of the bona fide stockholders will be benefited by legislative control, whether used or not. I do not fear the Legislature will ever do anything wrong, in regard to these matters. I want to see all these questions brought within the power and control of the General Assembly, as they now are in Wisconsin and many other States. Such power will never be used oppressively on any class of property or capital, but will exercise wholesome restraint. Mr. WHITING. Mr. Chairman: I suppose I am somewhat better acquainted with the grievances that we complain of, than I am of the real remedies to be sought and applied. There is great danger to day, in the State of Illinois, that the advantages to be derived from these rich prairies and all of their productions, all of the im proved labor saving machines that may be introduced, all the new economies, and new industries that may be inaugurated -will chiefly inure to the greed of corporate companies. I believe to-day, that if we could ferret out all these various extortia ns that are practiced upon us, we should find them to amount to not less than $10,000,000 a year-extortions from transp.'rtation companies, extortions fromf these warehouses, and false weights that are used. I am, therefore, in favor of the effort made here this morning to seek some remedy for the great wrongs that are being practiced upon the industries of our State. As I said before, I know a little about the grievances complained of. These abtsolutely begin right at our own doors. We farmers cannot carry our grain to market, to the little town near which I live, and load it upon the cars, but what the first charge is one cent a bushel for constructively passing through the warehouse, which it never sees but in the distance. Then in the passage, of a little over one hundred miles to Chicago, it loses in weight from three to ten bushels habitually. company, and the reby force a connection. If any contrac t has been made with the railroad company in its charter, by the State, that the courts would go so far out of what I consider their proper duty, as to decide that it should be a violation of their contract to pass a law that the warehouses may build a connection, under the power of eminent domain, the right of way of the railroad company and all the other property of the railroad company that stands between the railways and the right of the public to connect themselves with the railroad, may be condemned upon paying it proper compensation, and it cannot prevent it. [Here the hammer fell.] ["Go on."] Mr. CHURCH. I am obliged to the committee for. extending my time, but I do not desire at this time to go into the general discussion of the power of eminent domaiii over these franchises. I think the power does exist without any possibility of contradiction, and that by the exercise of that power, there is no exclusive privilege held by any railroad company of this State that can prevent the traders, the commercial men, the agriculturists and all the producing and commercial interests of the State, from connecting themselves with every railway in the State, and thereby compelling the railway companies to receive all their produce, all their merchandise, transport it to market and deliver it to such points as they desire. Mr. ELDREDGE. Mr. Chairman: I would ask the gentleman if the decision that he referred to-of the supreme court, is not in what is known as the Vincent case? Mr. CHURCH. It is. Mr. ELDREDGE Allow me to read a portion of that decision: A railway company can unquestionably refuse to allow the owner of adjacent property to lay down a side track connecting with its own rails, but when for a valid consideration it has once conferred that right, and, as in the case before us, has permitted the connection to be made, and the side track to be laid for the use of a particular lot of ground, and in order to transport to such lot heavy articles of freight, and the owner of said lot and side track has his warehouse in readiness for the receipt of such freight, then we say that such side track is to be considered as a part of its line for the purpose of delivering under this statute. Mr. CHURCH. Mr. Chairman: That is the very intimation of the court that I am speaking to, that if that is the law, if the railway company, by reason of their charter are entitled to that privilege of refusing, if the State has a right to give that right to refuse, then, that is the very right that we propose to condemn under the power of eminent domain. We pro. pose to condemn every franchise which stands between them and the powver of the public in the State to use them. In section one we merely declare all warehouses to be public warehouses, subject to public uses, and for public uses the General Assembly may seize any property in the State, including the franchise or charter of any railway company or part or parcel of the charter. If the inltimationl of the court alluded to try the gentleman from LaSalle [Mr. Eldredgfe] be correct, then we propose to Mwipe it out, so that railroads cannot refuse any reasonable demand of business, when based upon Sair compensation. Of course, if it is right that compen MAY 3, 1 8 I(), DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 162,7 I liave passed over one other little item. Observe the man who is weighing this grain; observe and see how he makes the steelyards kick the beam, ask him, "Is that the way you weigb?" "Yes, sir." "Do you call that honest weighing?" "Oh no. But they cheat at Ciiicago worse than that. I shall now lose from three to ten bushels." The grain goes then to Chicago, and car lo-,Ids of the same grain are graded "No. l," and another graded, perhaps, "rejected." Now, it might be supposed that some little niight leak out of the cars in passiDg t,,) Chicago, and',hat some loss might be made, and hence I said to a gentleman who shipped seed wheat from IV-innesota, which came over several different roads, in circuitous routes, and twice the distance at least to oux town, "i'dr. Johnson, how much did your wheat fall short?" He says: "I have received three car loads of wheat from lvliunesota, and on the whole I am out about half a bushel." If this had been shipped to Chicago, the loss would not have been less than ten or fifteen bushels. Now it is notorious that some of these elevators in Chicago have been able to deliver, at the end of the year, from five to ten thousand bushel? more grain than they received in their warehouse, and generally what they sell out that way, I believe, is number one, while it is taken in at a lower grade. I am naming these as wrongs we are complaining of. I am naming these as reasoiis why some remedy should be sought, and hence I welcome this morning the consideration of this question. 1 hope that either some specific thing will be done, or some general provision will be asserted, by which the industrial interests of Illinois shall be better protected in their rights. And, DOW let me say that the farmers, a few days ago declared, at Bloomington, upon this very question. They did not declare what the specific remedy i,,F, but they called upon us to "make an eff )rt" to redress the grievous wrongs they suffer from rapacious corporations. They declare that their organization shall be perfected throu-ahout the State, and that they will bae their rights respected upon this subject. I do hope that we shall be able to discover what the true remed is for these 1628 ()OSTJTUTJOAL COYET1O TUESDAY, Subject. It is said there are frauds, outrageous frauds Mr. MIERRIAM. Mr. Chairman: I rise to a question of order. I objected, when the gentleman from Stephenson [Mr. Turner] was delivering his speech, to his proceeding after his time had expired, but the gentleman from St. Clair [Mr. Underwood] rose and gave him his time upon this same question. Mr. UNDERWOOD. Mr. Chairman: This is a new proposition, upon the substitute of the gentleman from Clinton [Mr. Buxton]. I am as much interested in protectiug the c,ommunity as gentlemen who are seeking to make so much capital out of this humbug warehouse law. There is no State in the Union which has a provision of this kind in its Constitution. It is out of place. We may provide details that are improper. The law upon this subject should be flexible. It will be the duty of the General Assembly to protect the people against frauds by warehousemen and men in all kinds of business, and I hope the Convention will leave the whole matter to the law-making power, where it properly belongs-to the Legislature. Mr. MERRIAM. Mr. President: I have listened with some interest to the discussion upon this question, and I may say, sir, that it is a matter in which the people take a very deep interest. A sim ple proposition is made in this section that warehouses shall be deemed public. That is the whole question now open for discussion. The people of this State have hitherto sent up a great many and very numerously signed petitions that this Convention shall incorporate a simple provision into this Constitution to remedy existing evils, evils that they do not know how to reach in any other way. I would call the attention of the committee to th'~ fourth section, which proposes not only to regulate the warehouses, but to regulate railroads also. It is not that we demand that public warehouses only shall be regulated, but that the transportation companies, the common carriers of the State, shall be regulated, anrd that they shall be compelled to deliver freights to the points designated by the shippers. I hope, sir, we shall not be afraid to incorporate here a simnple provision that warehouses which are publicshall be so in law, as they are in tb.ct, that we shall not be afraid to so consider them, and adopt some further guard that railroads may not join hands with the warehouses ill robbing the people. I hope, sir, that we shall not be driven from doing our duty ill this matter. The appeal is coming up~ from the people all over the State, not from boardls of trade, not from monopolists, but fronm farmlers ,tud shippers and laboring men, who have been robbed year after year, that we shall here apply a remedy for these great evils. We are not runninlg any risks; we are simply declarin~g that these warehouses sha'll bje within the control of the Legislatures and that the rights of the people shall be protected. SMr. HAINES, of' Lake. Mr. Chair. man: 1 concur' with gentlema~n who have objected to this artiel, tihat it is proper to confisa.e our deliberatio~ns to general principles, and I would have been glad if this Convention had laid O Mr. McDOWELL. I hlave no desire to cut off debate in this matter, but I would now move that the committee rise, report progress, and ask leave to sit again at ten o'clock to-morrow. The motion was not agreed to. Mr. BUXTON. Mr. Chairman: I deem it unwise to put into a Constitution such special legislation as is cont ain ed in this article. What effect it may have, to require warehouses to post up their receipts, and note the daily changes, and what advantages it may give to speculators and grain gamblers, is more than I can tell. What may be the requirements of trade, on this subject, is something beyond my knowledge, be cause I have never had anything to do, practically, with any such question. It seems to me that this whole article is a species of legislation that, as has well been said by the gentleman from Adams [Mr. Browning], it would be much more proper to leave to the Legislature to mature and change, irom time to time, as the wants of the people may require. The specific propositions that are contained in this report may be all right and afford relief at present, but those men who are capable of being guilty of such things as they have been accused of, would soon turn these requirements into engines of oppression against the people, instead of affording them protection. I can well see how this can be managed in such a way as to afford no practical relief, but rather be the aid of dishonest deal ing. I have prepared a substitute which I shall offer for the section under consideration, which maintains every principle contained in the whole article. The only principle involved, is, making these warehouses public; and beyond this, is mere laying downl of rules and regulations for the government of these warehouses. I am not prepared to say what kind of rules and regulations may be needed, how long they shall remain, or how long it will be before they may require some change or modification. I now offer this substitute for the first section: All elevators and storehouses, where grain or other property is stored for hire, shall be public warehouses, and the General Assembly shall make such rules and regulations in regard thereto, as may be necessary for the protection of the public. Mr. UNDERWOOD. Mr. Chairman: I live in a county where is located one of the largest warehouses in the Stat e a t East St. Louis —and of course feel interthe nly two that vot d a ains it Th re sted in this kind of "legislation, as it m y n t j i a d i h t e w r h u e was suc a res ure for som reief to is properly called. I do not know that i o b n h e p e there is any complaint of fraud upon the part of the warehouse keepers. It is to be supposed that the criminal code remaiasc in force, and that the General Assembly will pass laws preventing fraud in ware house matters as well as everything else. The misfortune, in undertaking by ea constitutional provision to regulate varehouses, is that we may go too far or not far enough. A Constitution is not flexi ble, but the Legislature may change the law from time to time so as to meet the dishonesty of men in any kind of business. It is one. of those subjects over which the General Assembly should, with the greatest care and circumspection, legislate. I do not ~Believe we have time enough to fully examine the subject in all its aspects so as to legislate wisely on the CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION TUESDAY, 1628 august body, the board of trade, in rela. tion to the warebou,-.e bill proposed by the geiatleinau from JoDaviess [Mr. Cary]. I found there were conflicting opinions on the subject on'Change between the warehousemen upon the one hand, and the gentlemen wlio deal in grain and compose the board of trade o the other. The warehousemen urged that they were doing an honest buisness, dealing fairly with everybody, while other leadii3g geDtlen-ieD, who do business honestly, were complaining that their throats were being cut every day by the warehousemen, aud' gave the explanation which was satisfactory to me, that the warehousemen bad the inside track, because they knew exactly the amount of grain on hand. Nobody else could tell, for there was Do registry kept of receipts by which any one could ascertain what receipts had been taken up and destroyed, or what were still in circulation. To-d,,ty warehousemen may issue receipts upon. grain that has not yet left Minnesota, and I am told that a man who goes upon the board of trade, and is Dot posted as to the condition of the warehouse, as to quantity of grain, simply goes there to get his throat cut in the dark. If I had but one warehouse in Chicago, I could accumulate in five years, if as successful as the present managers of eleva tors, all of this world's goods that I would want. I am satisfied. that there is no institution in the State of Illinois that can pile up money like the elevators in Chicago. Gentlemen sav "why do you not go to the Legislature?" The gentleman from Stephenson [Mr. TurDer] referred to that as a proper place for the remedy to be applied. I will state that when the warehouse bill, called the "Eastman warehouse bill," was before the Legislature, it seemed to receive but vry little opposition for some time. It had in it all the elements to correct the evil that is compl,,Ained of by the people throughout the State, but when we got ready to pass the bill, when we were goij-,g to carry it through, so- that grain should be delivered to the warehouse to which it bad been shipped, in One single night's time tiie whole bill was changed, so that its own author never would have known it in the morning; and the result was that after MA 3,80 EAE X RCEIG.12 any way be mixed, shall be denominated "public warehousemen." Now, sir, in my opinion that section of that act is a fraud upon the people. The committee have very properly reported here that SEc. 1. All elevators or storehouses where grain or other property is'stored for a compensation, are declared to be, and shall be deemed public warehouses. That is the assertion of a general principle that I suppose no one will doubt the propriety of, whatever may be said with reference to the details of the report in other respects. The assertion of that principle, sir, affords the community some assurance that the Legislature can lay its hands upon these elevators and public warehouses, and effectively compel them to comply with the provisions of the law. In' the early part of the session of this Convention numerous petitions came to me upon this subject, and I supposed from the inquiry that I made upon tha t subject, that they emanated from a member of the board of trade. Nevertheless they were numerously signed, and signed by producers and shippers who suffered extensively through the inefficiency of this law of 1867, and through their inability to procure from the Legislature proper legislation upon this subject.' Now, so far as I am concerned, personally, I should be content with the assertion of the general principle that is contained in section one, and the substance of what is embraced in the fourth and fifth sections. But, sir, I doubt the propriety of this Convention going into details and prescribing minutely the manner in which public warehouses shall be controlled, as proposed by the second section. I fear, sir, that if we attempt to go into detail, as is proposed here, we shall, instead of remedying the difficulties under which the shipper and producer labor, only add to and complicate them. I agree with the gentleman from McHenry [Mr. Church], as to the necessity of asserting the power of the people over public warehouses, and the right to control the manner in which communications shall be made between the tracks of railroads and public warehouses. The necessities of the case press this upon us, and we are required by the demands that have been made upon us, to proceed a little further in the way of legislation, so to speak, than we otherwise would. sNow, as I, by the permission of the gentleman from McHenry [Mr. Church], called the attention of the committee to the fact that the supreme court has held that the Legislature has no power at the present time to control connections between warehouses and the tracks of railroad companies, it is certainly important that we should assert that power. [Here the hammer fell.] Mr. MEDILL. Mr. Chairman: Ishall not be able in five minutes even to name the heads of the topics I would like to discuss, hbt I will go on briefly and rapidly to say, that five things are wanted in regard to the grain question. The first is, that the grain of the farmers and shippers shall be delivered where consigned, and to the elevator to which it is sent. The second is, that the weight or quantity of grain delivered shall be equal to that received by the railway companies from the owners. down the rule m uch m or e stri ctly in this regard than th ey have done. But I w ould remin d tIe gentleman from St. Clair [Mr. Underwood], that this article contains no more special legislation than did his report on homestead exemption, and this perhaps has not any more objectionable features. I am at a loss to see the policy which is proposed by some gentlemen of advocating special legislation in one instance an d decryingit in another. If special legislation is good, we cannot have too much of it: if it is bad, do not let us have any of it. The first general principle laid down here is All elevators or storehouses, where grain or other property is stored for a compensation, are declared to be, and shall be deemed, public warehouses. That I understand to be the law now, and the gentleman from Adams rMr. Browning] inquires, why not leave all subsequent legislation on this subject to the General Assembly? For two reasons -first, the people are unwilling to leave this an open question for the General Assembly; and, secondly, the people have for the last Ien years applied to the General Assembly by petition for some legislation on this subject for their security, and have been entirely unable to obtain anything. Now, we are called upon to declare the general principle that warehouses storing grain or other Droperty for compensation, shall be deemed public institutions. Having declared that, we may leave the rest perhaps to the General Assembly. The amendment of the gentleman from Clinton [Mr. Buxton], commanding the General Assembly to provide all needful rules on this subject, is meaningless and weak, because we cannot command the General Assembly on this subject at all, and therefore his substitute is no broader than the section itself. The State of Illinois is a producing State, as are the surrounding States, and all the produce of this and those other States, has to pass to a great extent through these warehouses. In view of all the evils that are complained of in regard to these institutions, we are called upon to declare them public institutions. The people demand it, and really there is no need of any debate on this subject. Mr. ELDREDGE. Mr. Chairmanl: The question pending is whether we should adopt section one as reported} or adopt the substitute proposed by the gentleman from Clinton [Mr. Buxton]. I can see no objection to the adoption of section one of this article, and in view of past legislation, especially the act mentioned by the gentlemla~ fromn Vermilion [Mr. Tincher], it seems to me emlinently necessary and proper that we should declare the general principle asserted in it, as reported. I de-sire to call the attention of the committee to the first section of the warehouse act referred to by mny friend from Vermilion [Mr. Tincher]. It provides: SEC. 1. Be it enacted by the people of the State of Illinois, represented in the General A~ssembly, That hereafter, all persons who shall keep a warehouse in this State for the storing of grain, in which the grain of each person storing grain in such warehouse shall be kept in a separate bin, distinct from the grain of all other persons, shall be denominated "private warehousemen,'} and that all persons keeping a warehouse for the storing of grain in bulk, and i& which the grain of different owners Bhall ina 408 The third thing is, that the quantity of the grain in store shall be known to the owners of the grain and to the public. The fourth proposition is, that a reasonable degree of honesty must be secured in grading the grain into and out of the warehouse. The fifth proposition is, that railroads shall be compelled to permit connections with their tracks to competing warehouses in the vicinity of the track. As I understand the article before the Convention, it provides for these five absolutely essential purposes, and seeks to establish no other. I cannot perceive a just ground on which this Convention can refuse to declare these five fundamental principles as a part of the organic law of the State, and as a portion of the rights of the people. The greatevil under which the producing class of this State labor, is the want of competition in the business of warehousing the produce of the State. The market for the grain of Illinois is in the hands of "forestallers," so to speak. Competition has been blotted out and combination has seized the business. The fifty million bushels of grain that pass into and out of the city of Chicago per annum, are controlled absolutely by a few warehouse men and the officers of railways. They form the grand ring, that wrings the sweat and blood out of the producers of Illinois. There is no provision in the fundamental law standing between the unrestricted avarice of monopoly and the common rights of the people; but the great, laborious, patient ox, the farmer, is bitten and bled, harassed and tortured, by these rapacious, blood-sucking insects. It is the bounden duty of this Convention to step between these voracious monopolies and the producers, and give them protection, in some degree, at least. Lastly, the moral effect of an article of this description in the fundamental law would be great, good and happy. There will then be an assertion of the rights of the people, which may be framed and hung up in every farmer's house, as a magna charta of his inalienable rights. It will be a monitor to Legislatures which members will not dare to ignore or disregard. It will be a landmark or corner stone, marking the limits to the algg, essions of monlopoly. The proper legislation to carry out the details of an article can then be extorted, even from a bad Legislature, in defiance of the resistance of warehouse owners and railroad officials, working in combination or singly. It is the duty of the Convention, in my opinion, to amend and perfect thle articles It is demanded by every consideration of public good and public safety, and we will be sadly'derelict to our duty if we leave these halls without having passed a proper article of this description, for the protection of the people and the restriction of monopoly. Mir. CU]~MINGS. Mr. Chairman: Not wishing to take up the time of the committee, I move that we now proceed to take a vote. The CHEAIR1IAlq. The question in upon the substitute offered by the gentleman from Clinton [Mr. Buxton]. The Clerk read the substitute offered by Mer. Buxton, as follows: i MA-Y 3, 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1629 163 COS1UTOA CO-~TO TUS no reason why we should vote against it. But, sir, I consider the interest of the "grain-gamblers," as the gentleman calls them-if by that he means those who buy and sell grain in Chicago-is pre cisely the interest of the people of the State of Illinois. Precisely! And in putting limitation on the rights of the purchaser of grain in Chicago, we put a limitation on the rights of the farmers who raise the grain in the State of Illi nois. If there is nobody at Chicago or other great markets to buy grain, then the farmer does not get a reward for his labor. The purchasers of his grain are the men to whom he looks for his mar ket, and if these men are prevented by fraud and trickery from knowing the amount of grain in market, if they are induced to believe that there is a very large amount of grain in market when there is a very small amount, they do not give the farmer as much as they would if they had full knowledge. It is to the interest of the farmers that they should have this full knowledge, and that those men who store their grain shall make public exhibits, and inform the whole public as to the amount of grain in store. And'so in regard to the other provi sions in this article. Why, sir, the grain dealers, who are said to be asking redress here, are not the only men who buy grain, for I assure gentlemen of the Con vention, that the owners of the ware houses are said to be the largest gamb lers in grain in Chicago. And, sir, they are said to be not only gamblers in grain, but gamblers who play with marked cards against the farmers of the State, and the honest millers and buyers who go to that market to buy their grain. The miller comes from New York to make a purchase of grain, and, it is said, finds the game is all in the hands of the ware house men. They have got the entire control. They take possession of the farmer's wheat, of his grain, carry it to their warehouses, and, it is said,get num ber one and turn out number two or three. It is said they issue certificates when they have no grain; that they de fraud the farmer and the buyer. And yet when the public come here and de mand redress, we find gentlemen denouncing them as "grain gamblers," and saying in effect, that they ought to be hooted out of this Convention. This article is denounced as being leg islative in its character. Sir, I contend that a constitutional provision, whic h ofters relief in a matter of such importance as this, which affects the whole produce of the State of Illinois, which affects fifty millions of grain per annum, and the whole body of farmers who raise it, is worthy of the consideration of this Convention, even if it may be called legislative in its character. All the provisions of the Constitution are more or less legislative, and in such a matter as this, I think it incumbent on the Convention to give the people of the State, the farmers and producers of the State, and the various buyers and sellers ocu f grain, the power of knowing the con dition of the grain market, of protecting themselves against the monopoly of the warehousemen, of securing the delivery of their grain, and of securing the deliv ecry of the full quantity of that graint that has been received by the railroad companies for delivery. All elevators and storehouses, where grain or other property is stored for hire, shall be public warehouses, and the General Assembly shall make such rules and regulations in re gard thereto, as may be necessary for th e protection of the public. The substitute off ered by Mr. Buxton was not agreed to. 'Ihe CHAIRMAN. The question is up n s ton section one. The Clerk read section one, as follows: SECTION 1. All elevators or storehouses, where grain or other property is stored for compensation, are declared to be, and shall be deemed public warehouses. Section one was agreed to. The Clerk read section two, as follows: SEC. 2. The owner, lessee, or manager of each and every public warehouse, shall make weekly statements under oath, before some officer to be designated by law, and keep the same posted in some conspicuous place in the office of such warehouse, and shall also file a copy for public examination in such place as shall be designated by law, which statement shall correctly set forth the amount and grade of each and every kind of grain in such ware house, together with such other property as may be stored therein, and what warehouse receipts have heen issued, and are at the time of making such statement outstanding there for; and shall on the copy posted in thre ware house, note dailv such changes as may be made in the quantity and grade of grain in such war. house. The CHAIRMAN. The question is upon the amendment of the gentleman from Kendall [Mr. Sherill], to section two. The Clerk read the amendment offered by Mr. Sherill to section two, as follows: Add to the section the following: "And on failure of compliance with the above regula tions, shall forfeit a sum not exceeding one thousand dollars." Mr. HAYES. Mr. Chairman: I will give the reasons that induced me to ap pend my signature to the report of this committee. I did not understand, as charged by the gentleman from Stephen son [Mr. Turner], that this committee were becoming merely the cat's paw of a set of grain-gamblers, who are said to "swarmii like lice" and to be "sucking the body politic like leeches." These were sonme of the expressions used by the gen tleman from Stephenson [Mr. Turner]. He said further that this article had its origin with these gamblers-was prepared and drawn by them. All I have to say is this, that I do not know to what exteLt gentlemen who are designated by him as gamblers ill grain, have become interested in the propositions before this commit tee —I do not. know but what these prop: ositions may have even originated with gentlemen who deal in grain —I do not know whether they have or not, but I do know that the reason presented by the gentleman-from Stephenson [Mr. Turne,r] is not a sufficient reason why we should reject these propositions, even if that reason be true. It is quite possible, sir, that somne dealers in grain have lost mloney by grain operations and may have lost it through the improper conduct of the grain warehousemen and railroad officers,s and may have, smarting under the loss, devised some mode by which they, in common with the rest of the public, can secure fair dealing from the warehouse men and the honest conduct of this warehouse business. If they have devised such a plan anld presented it to members of this Convention, and it has comne befolre the Convention, the fact that they have been induced to devis~ that plan is The CHAIRMAN. The question is upon the second part of the sectioD, from the word "and," in line eight, to the e nd of the section. The second part of section two was agreed to. Section two, as a whole, was agreed to. The CHAIRMAN. The question is upon section three. The Clerk read section three, as follows: SEc. 3. The board of trade of any city or town, where a public warehouse is located, may appoint committees whenever it may desire, who shall have full power to inspect the books of any warehouse whenever said board shall deem it necessary, and the owners of property stored in any warehouse, or holder of receipt for same, shall always be at liberty to examine such property stored, and all the books and records of the warehouse, and the agents, clerks.and employees may be examined, under oath, as to the said books, records and pro,perty, under such rules and regulations as may be prescribed by law. Mr. CARY. Mr. Chairman: I move to strike out lines one,- two and three from section three. The motion was agreed to. Mr. TURNER. Mr. President: I propose an amendtment to section three, to so modify it as to have it read, "as to property belonging to the party making examination." I do not think any man, Mr. Chairman, under the pretense of having a few bushels of grain in a warehouse, should have the right to go over*it, examine all CONSTLTUTIONAL CONVENTION 1630 T-UESDAY I believe my time is up. It is impossible to discuss a question of this kidd in five Minutes, but these are the reasons that have actuated me. Mr. WENDLING. I simply move that a vote be now taken on this question. The.,motion of Mr. WendIii3g was agreed to. Th IC," CHAIRMAN. The question is on the am"endment (-)ffered bv the gentleman from KeDdall [Alr. Sherri,l]. The Clerk read the amendment, offered by Mr. Sherrill, as follows: Add to the end of the section the follow!Dg: "And on failure of compliance with the above regulations shall forfeit a sum not exceedling one thousand dollars." Mr. MERRIAM. Mr. Chairman: Would a further amendment be in order? The CHAIRMAN. Further amei2dments would uot be in order under the rule. The rule adopted by the Coiivention to apply in Committee of the Whole as to calling for a vote, has the sarae effl"t as calling for the previous question in Convention. The committee has already decided to proceed to a vote upon the pendidg amendment, and that cuts off further amendments. The question is upon the ame-Ddment of the gentleman from Keiidall [Mr. Sherrill]. The Clerk read the amendment offered by Mr. Sherrill, as follows: Add to the end of the section the following: "Aijd'OD failure Ot'COrnpliaDCe with ihe above regulations, shall forfeit a sum not exceeding one thousand dollars." The amendment was not agreed to. Mr. CUMMINGS. Mr. Chairniait: I call for a division of the question upon section two from the. begin-Ditig of the section down to the word "therefor," in line eight, to be voted upon first. The first part of section two was agre,3d to. IAY 3 1 the books and records of the warehouse, private books, but the clerks, agents, and Mr. McCOY. Mr. Chairman: I would andatthe same time require the clerks employees, we are going further than inquire if a further amendment is inor to be sworn as to everything else. any body I ever heard of. der? The CHAIRMAN. Will the gentle- The purpose of this examination is not The CHAIRMAN. An amendment to man please send up his amendment? set forth in the section, and the onlv the amendment would be in order. Mr. CARY. Sir. Chairman: These limitation to the inquest is that it shall be Mr. McCOY. I wish, Mr. Chairman warehouses are public. The elevators under such rules and regulations as may to make a further amendment by insert and keepers of grain do not own the be prescribed by law. What is the pur- mg after the word "warehouse," in the property held there in store. Now, sir, pose of that examination? Tell us what sixth line, the words "in relation to such this is to protect any person having the object is. I know of but one ligiti property" grain there, or who deals in receipts f, r hirmnI grain there, or who deals in receipts f( r mate purpose, and that is to see if the Mr. Chairman, I think that this is as grain. If a man purchases one of these property stored there has been lost or far as we should go in this direction. It receipts, he wishes to know whether that stolen. But if stolen from a public ware- occurs to me, sir, that we should not open receipt is good for anything. He wishes house, no public warehouseman would be the gate here to let any particular ring to examine the records, and if there is liable, if he used ordinfry care in taking into the warehouses for the purpose of a- double set of books, he wants to exam searcho i. a; double set of books, he wants to exam care of it. This is simply a new right of forming a combination upon the rights of ine the clerks, to know whether such is search. the agricultural people of the State; and the fact. I am unable to see the purpose of this if we open these warehouses and permit The keepers of grain have no interest, provision, or any single good which can a general examination into them to see except as bailees, to take charge of it for be accomplished, for at the close of the what amount of grain is stored there, it the public. The purchaser of a receipt section we still have to go to the General will give the power to those gentlemen wants to know wheputher that receipt iAssembly for regulations. who gamble upon thecorners, in relation more than a worthless piece of paper, The object stated by the gentleman these subjects, the entire control over and, therefore, sir, this examination is from Jo Davieiss [Mr. Cary] does not, I the agricultural interests of the counafforded as a protection. I think it is respectfully submit, amount, to anything, try. necessary for the protection of those who for if we are going to call up the clerks, I am willing, sir, here to concede purchasl, these receipts. agents and employess it amounts to hav- while I am a member of this committee TheCAIRMAN. The quesion is iug a judicial investigation provided for that it is true, to a certain extent, that the CHamendment offT he question is in the organic law, and when we have it this report came from the city of Chicaupon the amendment offered by the ge what are we going do'with it? Will go; that it came from there in form and The Clerk will rom Stephenson [Mr. Turnernd entany gentlemanr ise in his place and tell in substance, and had its manliness and The Clerk lread the amendment offered me what public or private good is to be all its garments laid on there and I an by Mr. Turner, to the third section, as accomplished by this examination? willing to concede further that I am by Mr. Turner, to the third section, asAsteeaebotsxyielweso follows: IAs there are about sixty-fo receive lawyers on willything good, that this flo)or, let us look upon this subject in may come out of evil. Insert in the sixth line, after the word the light of the law. "oath," the words, "concerning the sa to the rmers Now, sir, I am in favor of thi report and strike out "as to the said boons, records heecan they accomplish anything by this? in substance and inform, with very slight and property." Will it do them any good? I do not see exceptions, and I am in favor of it for the The CHAIRMAN. The question is on it. I tell gentlemen, in all frankness, that rea,son that it protects a class of people the amendment offered by the gentleman we cannot accomplish anything whatever with who)m I am somewhat connected from Stephenson [Mr. Turner]. The Sec- by sech a restriction. and because it is for my interest that the retary will read the section as it will I will illustrate. Suppose there is a agricultural interests of the State should readl if amended. public warehouse across the way,declared be protected-and why? Because what The Secretary read the last part of sec- to be so by law. You take there one thou- little I have, what little interest I have in tion three, as proposed to be amended by sand bushels of wheat, put it on deposit, the State of Illinois, of a material eleMr. Turner, as follows: and pay for the deposit of the wheat ment, is with the farmers of the State. I there. When you want to take it, you shall go for every proposition of this kind -owners of property stored in any ware house or hder of eceipt for same hall a11 present your receipt and demand it. In and shall go against every proposition house or holder ofireceipt for same shall always be at liberty to examine s'ch property the meantime, for what purpose do you that favors a combination, from whatever stored, and all the books and records of the want an examination? Do you want to source it may come. warehouse concerning the same, under such look at your wheat? There it is. You I must say here, rules and regulations as ma b' ib d b; *I must say here, sir, that when the rules and regulations as may be prescribed by have placed it with the warehouseman, proposition of a sub law. M, ANTHONY. Mr Chaira Ipaid him for storing it, and he ha to de by the gentleman from Clinton [Mr Mr. ANTHONY., Mr. Chairman: If liver the same grade. Do we want by Buxton] this iorig i there ever was such a thing as special this article to secure to a dealer the a railroad proposition, in railroad interlegislation, I think this section is a fine same grade when his wheat is given back? ests. I thought I saw it cropping out specimten of it. De we propose to regulate the grades of here yesterday. I am on the alert f)r all What is the law at present on this ques- wheat in the organic law of Illinois? if such things and am opposed to all this tion? If the gentleman from JoDaviess we do, our remedy is not provided in this colorable painting, placed upon the walls [Mr. Cary] takes any property to a pub- section at all. here to dec mn lie warehouse, deposits it there and pays Therefo~re, when we have instituted an I want to go right down to what is for its storage, does he think it necessary inquest of all the agents, clerks and eni called, in common parlance, "hard-pan,"to institute a judicial investigation in or- ployes under oath, what is it all for? and give the farming class some kind of der to find out whether his property re- No purpose is disclosed in this section, to a show in this enterprise. If there is a mains there and has not been stolen? Is say the least. not the law well settled now between a It seems to me that what we have pro- draw blanks and I want farmers to take bailor and bailee? I think it is. For vided in section one is merely a re enact- pries what purpose, then, do we seek to provide ment of the first section of the law of So far as this report is concerned, it that an examination shall take place, not 1867. When we declare these warehouses compels the railroads to make delivery only of the books, but of agents, clerks, to be public warehouses, which they are (if we adopt it), to the place, and to the and emplyees under oath? It is estab- at common law, and which they are by persons to whelm produce is consigned lishing a system of espionage hitherto the statute of 1867, we do not progress, The denial of that is one of the great wholly unknown. by any action of this Convention, one fults that has been abroad in the State I am in favor of some of the provisions single inch. Go to a railroad company and ask them of this article, but I will respectfully [Here the hammer fell.] to take your shipment to a certain point submit that the law on most of the ques M,. CUMMINGS. Mr. Chairman: I and they will give you a receipt, but that tions which have been discussed has al- move that we proceed to take a vote on receipt compels them to deliver to ready been well settled, and does not re- the section and pending amendments. another point, and when the deliverv is quire any further legislation. When we A division was ordered. made, you have gont to have a coroner's advance so far as to make of the owner The commnittee divided, when, there inquest for the purpose of finding the of a piece of property, a grand jury, being fourteen in the affirmative and fif- boidy that you have shipped-and it may by which he can proceed to a public teen in the negative, the motion was not be dead when you find it. [Laughte1j warehouse and examine, not only the agreed to. You go to an elevator and are informed MxY 3, 1870. DEBATES AND P-ROCEEDINGS. 1631 1q32 c'OSTJTUTIOAL C()YETIO TUESDAY, The CHAIRMAN. It is already strick en out by the adoption of the substitute. The question is on the adoption of section three, as amended. Section three, as amended, was agreed to. The CHAIRMAN. The question is upon section four. The Clerk read section four, as follows: SEC. 4. All railroad companies and other common carriers shall be required to weigh grain into the cars at points where it is shipped, and receipt for the amount, and be held responsible for the delivery of the amount received, at the place of destination. Mr. MEDILL. I would ask the gentleman whether that would not have the effec t of correcting th e warehousemen's scale, so as to correspond with the scale where the wheat is weighed in, and thus secure honest weight to the owner? I do not see how it can harm the railroad companies to have proper scales at both ends of their t rack. Mr. WAGNER. What I think essen tial is, that where parties get a receipt for grain, the carrier should be held responsible to the consignee for the delivery of exactly that amount. My experience is that while it is customary, through the country, to buy corn at sixty pounds a bushel, and send it to Chicago, Milwau kee, or other great markets, where it is sold at fifty-six pounds per bushel, the person who buys grain at sixty pounds, and sells at fifty-six pounds, loses by the transaction; and that is the experience of every shipper in the country. We want to correct that evil. We want, if it is possible, to compel the rail roads, as common carriers, to deliver the amount forwhich they receipt. Let them weigh it into the cars, and receipt for that amount. In doing this, we meet a .want that will be appreciated by the people at large. Mr. MEDILL. Do you propose an amendment? Mr. WAGNER. The amendment of the gentleman from Clinton [Mr. Buxton] simply leaves it as it was. Mr. MEDILL. The better way is to move an amendment embodying what you want. Mr. WAGNER. Yes. I think the amendment I propose will remedy all the evils complained of.~It will make the section read as follows: SEC. 4. All railroad companies and other common carriers shall be required to weigh grain at points where it is shipped, and receipt for the full amount, and be held responsible for such amount received, at the place of destination. [Here the hammer fell]. Mr. PARKS. Mr.M Mr. ROSS. Mr. Chqirman: Mr. PARKS. Mr. Chairman: I did not rise to make a speech, but to' give my time to the gentleman from Carroll [Mr. Wagner]. This is an important matter, and I want to do what is best for the farmers and shippers. The gentleman from Carroll [Mr. Wagner] is a shipper, and knows more about this question than I ido. I would rather hear him than to talk myself. I hope the gentleman from Fulton [Mr. Ross] will give way, and that the committee will hear the gentleman till he gets through. Mr. WAGNER. I am obliged to the gentleman from Logan [Mr. Parks]. That is the way I would like to have thesection read. I am not altogether satisfied with the words "common carriers." I am not satisfiedd how that will operate, but I have no particular objection to it. I offer the amendment as I have read it. IMr. M:EDILL. Why does the gentlemlan from JoI~aviess [Mr. Cary] clove to strike out the words "common carriers?" Mr. CARY. Mr. Chairman: I do not. move to strike them out. I think theamendment offered by the gentleman from Carroll [Mr. Wagner] is right, comn~pelling railroads and otferr common car — Mr. CARY. Mr. Chairman: I move to amend by striking out the words "and toher common carriers." Mr. WAIT. Mr. Chairman: I do not think that these words ought to be stricken out. There are companies that ship grain from various points, through to New York, who cannot be properly called railroad companies, but are conmpanies formed outside of the railroads, and pay to the railroad companies so much for taking their cars over the road. Mr. HART. Mr. Chairman: I will inquire whether, if that is stricken out, it would not affect canals? Mr. CARY. Mr. Chairman: Some of the canal men have told me that there is no complaint of canal men. o ["There is no complaint."] Mr. CARY. Then I withdraw the mo tion to strike out. Mr. ROSS. Mr. Chairman: I wish to cal l the attention of the chairman of this committee [Mr. Cary], to the word "cars," in the second line. It does not appear to be applicable there, as steamboats have no cars to put grain in. Mr. BUXTON. Mr. Chairman: I move the folllowing amendment. The Clerk read the amendment offered by Mr. Buxton to section four, as fol lows: Strike out the words "be required to" and inserted "when requested." ithas gone to John Jones' elevator, and you go to John Jones' elevator, and it has gone to Jacob Doe's elevator, and you go around from one elevator to another and the result is that the whole thing is eked out, and these railroads, these monster monopolies, that we see clustering around th's hall, are the things that are eating out the substance of the farming people of the State, to which I wish to say I am opposed here, now and forever. [Here the hammer fell]. The CHAIRMAN. The Chair does not regard the amendment of the gentleman from Whiteside [Mr. McCoy] as an amendment to the amendment, and the question is therefore upon the amendment of the gentleman from Stephenson [Mr. Turner.] Mr. TURNER. I will withdraw my amendment, in order to allow the gentleman from Cook [Mr. Coolbaugh] to offer one which meets my views better. The CHAIRMAN. The question will then be upon the amendment of the gerntleman from Whiteside [Mr. McCoy.] Mr. COOLBAUGH. Mr. Chairman: I wish to say a few words upon the section. I am in favor of the principles involved in this article, yet I must confess that I think the third section might be modified. While owners of property should certainly be secured in their rights to make an examination of it, wherever it may be, and whenever they may choose to make it, I can yet hardly conceive how, under the provisions of this section, they can be secured in any rights beyond that. It would certainly not be a supposable case that I, a private individual, and holder of a receipt of grain, stored in a warehouse under the provisions of this section, desiring to personally examine it. should have the right to go into that warehouse, administer an oath to the clerks or employees, and to proceed to pry into anything and everything I might see fit to, because I would have no such power, not even under this sectionunless specially conferred upon me by an bet of the Legislature. Therefore, I do not see the practical effect of the section, and I would appeal to my friend from JoDaviess [Mr. Cary] to consent a modification of it in these terms: Insert after the word "warehouse," the Words, "in regard to such propertyI7 That, I think, covers every substantial right that wve may confer ina this section, and embraces enough to guarantee that right. I appeal, as one of the friends of this article, to the chairman of the comnmittee [Mr. Gary] to agree to that, which will remove, I think, all objec tions in regard to the case. Mr. CARY. I agree to that, Mr. Chairmaan. Mr. COOLBAUGH. M~r. Chairman: I move then the following as a substitute for section three: Owners of property stored ill any warehouse, or holder of receipts for same, shall always be at liberty to examnine such property stored, and all the books and records of the warehouse in regard to such property. The CHAIRMAIN. The qutestion is upon the substitute offered by the gentlemanl from C~ook [Mr. Coolbaugh]. The substitute offered by Mr. Coolbaugh was agreed to. MKr. TRUESDAL:E. Mr. Chairman:* I move that all that part of the section after the word "sproperty"' be stricken out. The Clerk also read section four, as proposed to be amended by Mr. Buxton, as follows: Sec. 4. All railroad companies and common carriers shall, when requested, weigh grain at points where it is shipped, and receipt for the full amount, and be held responsible for the delivery of such amount to the owner or consignee thereof, at the place of - destination. Mr. WAGNER. The word "exact," in the amendment proposed, is correct. I look upon this section as the most important in the article. If what we propose be carried out, it will put an end to this railroad and warehouse stealing, which has been going on for the last ten years. I, myself, have been engaged in shipping somewhat, and I find the great trouble is that when I load a car of grain at anyv - warehouse in the country, I get a receipt fo r s o many pounds, more or less. I may weigh in eighteen thousand or nineteen thousand pounds, but the company will give a receipt for eighteen thousand pounds, more or less. When the grain arrives at the place of destination, I am charged for the eighteen thousand pounds. It does not matter if I have but twelve thousand pounds. I am charged for eighteen thousand pounds freight. There is great stealing going on-somewhere. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION TuF,SD.LY, 1632 MAY 3, 1870. DEBATES AXD PROCkEDINGS. 1633 business in the loose way it has been done. Then one can make some calculation-can buy upon a margin. My experience is, that I have never lost less than three, and I have lost as high as fifty-three bushels on a single car. I think the losses of grain men throughout the country will warrant them in submitting to an increase in charges, if that be necessary. Mr. McCOY. Mr. Chairman: I have only one word with reference to the statement of the gentleman from Stephenson [Mr. Turner] as to the increase of the cost of transportation. I know it is the custom in most places (and the railroad companies have adopted the plan) to weigh all the cars loaded with grain. Those cars are run on to the railroad company's scales, weighed, then run back, then the shipper, if he is disposed, also weighs the grain, and if not, he takes the weight the railroad company makes. I think, as a general thing, the grain is run into the car without weighiiug, that the railroad weight is the one adopted and that it will really, in point of fact, create no additional expense. I hope the section, as amended, will be adopted. Mr. ATKINS. Mr. President: It seems to me that there is a defect in line three of section four-. Line two provides as follows: And be held responsible for the delivery of the amount received at the place of destination. I understand that a great evil complained of by farmers and shippers is, that railroad companies, having received grain, refuse, after it has arrived at the place of destination, to deliver it upon demand to the owner or consignee, insistiDg upon sending it to their own warehouse, or to the warehouses of some favorites There is no provision in this fourth section requiring anything more of railroad companies than a delivery of grain at the place of destination. The fifth section does not provide for this matter either, or supply this omission. I hold that any farmer or shipper has the right to send one or more cars of grain to Chicago or any other point, to receive it there either in person, by consignee, or by agent, and do with it as he pleases without being compelled to put it into anybody's warehouse. That right is not provided for at all in this article. The fifth section provides that all grain may be forced into some one's warehouse, either that of the railroad, or such one as the railroad chooses to send it, or that it shall be permitted to go to the warehouses of persons who may have tracks connecting with their warehouses. The fifth section was designed merely to compel railroads to permit third persons owning warehouses or elevators to connect their tracks with the tracks of railroad companies-in other words permit "opposition"s elevators or warehouses to be connected with railroad tracks. I, therefore, suggest an amendment in line three, section four, as follows: After the words, "and be held responsible for the delivery of the full amount received," insert the words "to the owner or consignee thereof," at the place of destination. The CHAIRMAN. It cannot be enterrained until the pending amendments are disposed of. Mr. ATKINS. I suiggost it for inforrmation. I further suggest that the word 'full" before the word "amount," is un necessary. If any gentleman can find a rul e in the English language, by which "ifull" befr ore the word "amount" adds to it any additional strength, I would like to hear it cited. This fifth section reads: All railroads receiving and transporting grain shall be required to deliver the same to any elevator or public warehouse to which it may be consigned, provided such elevator or public warehouse can be reached by any track owned, leased or used, or which can be used by such railroad; and all railroads shall permit connections to be made with their track. It will be seen that this section has no reference to the class of cases I have mentioned, viz: of persons who desire to receive their grain at the cars at the proper depot, upon arrival. They should certainly have the right to receive their grain in person, or by consignee, at the cars or railroad depot, and to remove itwithout being required to first send. it to any warehouse. Mr. WAGNER. Mr. Chairman: I accept the amendment offered by the gentleman from Morgan [Mr. Atkins]. Mr. BUXTON. Mr. Chairman: Ioffer an amendment: riers to weigh and receipt for the full amount of grain at the point of shipment. Mr. WAGNER. Mr. Chairman: I think the section would read better if they were held responsible for the delivery of the "same" at the place of des tination. Mr. CARY. I a cce pt tha t ame ndment. Mr. BENJAMIN. Mr. Chairman: If the gentleman from Carroll [Mr. Wagner] will accept another amendment, I would suggest the striking out of the words "the delivery of," and "received," and the insertion of the word "such," in the place of the former words. There may be a difference between the amount weighed and receipted for at the scales and the amount received in the cars. As the section stands, it would enable common carriers to claim exemption from liability for losses that might occur between the scales and the cars, and they could only be held responsible for the amount received at the cars. The intention of the committee undoubtedly was to hold the carrier responsible for the amount of grain weighed and receipted for at the scales. Mr. WAGNER. Mr. Chairman: I accept that amendment. The CHAIRMAN. The question is upon the amendment of the gentleman from Carroll [Mr. Wagner] to the amendment of the gentleman from Clinton [Mr. Buxton]. Mr. TUJRNER. Mr. Chairman; I believe most of the amendments have been accepted. While I know it is common for gentlemen on this floor, who do not agree with others, to charge that those with whom they disagree, have selfish motives for disagreeing with them, I hav e no interest in any railroad, directly or indirectly, but all my interests are in favor of cheap transportation, and I must be permitted to say that I regard the adoption of the section as calculated to increase very considerably the price of transportation, and the burdens of the producers. I have no objection to the weighing process, except this: that it will require every railroad company at every station to keep its scales, and a person to weigh. At the large stations it will require switching engines} and at the smaller stations, the keeping of a horse, the cost of all of which extra work will be charged on freights. It will in~crease the price of tran~sportation. Just in the proportion that we require them to perform extra work will their charges increase. This is one of the inexo(rable laws of trade. Now, [ understand all warehousemen weigh their grainl as it is delivered on the cars. Then why is it necessary to have this extra weighing done by the railroad comnpanly? I believe it is universally the case on all railroads, that warehousemen weigh out the grain. Then why should receivers be required to weigh it again? It winl make additional expense, and that additional expense will certainly be charged to the shipper, and who, in turn, will take it out of the producer. M~r. 1McCOY. Mr. Chairman_ Mr. WAGNER. Mr. Chairman: By permission o~f the gentleman from Whiteside [,~Ir. McCoy], I wish to say that if it is necessary to increase the rate oxf transportalL~n, [ would rather pay two ceds more per bulshel than I pay now, than do 409 1633 DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. MAY 3 1870. Strikc! out the words, "be required to," in the first line, and insert, "when requested." The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman has already one amendment pending. Mr. BUXTON. That amendment was accepted. The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman from Clinton [Mr. Buxton] offered an amendment, to which the gentleman from Carroll [i'4r. Wagner] proposed au amendment. The gentleman from Morgan [Mr. Atkins] offered an amendment, which the gentleman from Carroll accepted. The question is upon the amendment of the gentleman fr(.,,l-n Carroll, to the amendment offred by the gentleman from Clin. tou, add ttle, gentleman from Clinton can make no further anien(im.e,nt iiatit this is disposed of. 1VIr. VANDEVENTER. Mr. Chair. man: I move that'we proceed to take a vote upon the section and pending amendments. The CHAIRMAN. The question is upon the amendment of the gentleman from Carroll [iNIr. Wagner] to the amendment of the gentleman from Clinton [Mr. Buxton]. Mr. BUXTON. Mr. Chairman: I would ask unanimous consent to offer my amendment. I think it will be evident that this requiring railroad corporations an,i other common earners to weigh grain wilt entitle them to compensation for such weighing, the same as other persons. Mr. ROSS. Mr. Chairman: I would inquire if that is in order? The (,H.,klRNIAN. The gentleman can state a-ileiidiiie.L,,-., for information. Al-. L,UXTON. My amendment is to strike out 11 be required to," and inser [,,Object.,,] Mr. BENJAMIN. Mr. Chairman: I would suggest that, inasmuch as the words 11 owners or consignees" have been inserted, it will be necessary to retain the word delivery." Mr. WAGNER. I accept the suggestion. The amendment offered by Mr. Wagner, as amended, was agreed to. The CHAIRMAN. The question is upon the adoption of the fourth section. Section four, as ameiided, was agreed to. I CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION A FTEReO ON SESSION. TUESDAY, May 3,1870. The Convenrton met at tw o o'clock P. M., and was called to order by the President. SpWiinger, Tincher, Truesdale, Whiting-30. The Secretary read section five, as fol lows: SaEc. 5. All railroads receiving and trans porting grain shall be required to deliver the same to any elevator or public warehouse to which it may be consigned, provided suich elevator or public warehouse can be reached by aly track owned, leased or used, or whi(-. h can be used by such railroad; and all rail roads shall permit connections to b e m ade with thei r track, so that any public ware house may be reach hed by the cars on said railroad, provi ded su ch connect ion is author ized by the legal authorities of any town or pcity in which such connection is desired. Mr. BENJAMIIN. I move to amend by inserting in the fourth line after the word "shall," the words "upon just com pensation." I n think this amendment will be necessary in orde r to secure the full legality of the provision. Before we authorize the arbitrary inva sion of property and rights, it mav be well to consider some provisions of the Constitution of the United States. Mr. CARY. Mr. Chairmanl: I am opposed to that amendment In the city of Chicago, as I understand, there is one track running through the city. Per mission to lay this track was granted upon condition that all railroads runnaing into the city should have the privilege of running over that track. Many of the elevators are built along the sides of that public track, and I was shown, when there, an elevator that was built on the supposition that all the railroads running on that track would deliver grain at this warehouse or elevator, but the owner of that elevator could not get the grain he had purchased in the coun try, shipped in the cars, and sent to Chi cago to his own elevator, without having it shipped to other elevators, and first paying tribute to them, as I understand. I do not think it is necessary to provide that whe,never a man shall build an ele vator at such a place as that, and connect his elevator with the railroad track run ni,ig through the city, he shall be re quired to pay anv compensation to the railroad company. Mr. HART. Mr. Chairman: I just wish to state that I cannot see the pro priety of the amendment proposed. There is a decision of the supreme court upon this question, as I understand it, in the case of Vincent vs. the Chicago, Alton and St. Louis railroad. The decision is to the effect that no extra charge shall be made for the delivery of grain to any warehouse, to which that gfrain may be consigned, if there is a track from the main railroad to the warehouse —and whether the side track belongs to the railroad or to private individuals makes nio difference. If that is the case, what occasion is there for the words ";just compensation.? I see none whatever, and therefore, I am opposed to the words proposed to be inserted. Mr. ENGLISH. I now move the committee rise, report progress, and ask leave to sit again at two o'clock. A division was ordered. The committee divided, when, there being twenty-two in the affirmative and twenty i?] the negative, the motion was agreed to. ADJOUR NiMENT. Mr. SWENDLING. Mr. President: I move that the Convention do now adjourn. The motion was agreed to. So the Convention (at twelve o'clock and seventeen minutes) adjournled. cLEAVE OF ABSENCE. Mr. WASHBURN. Mr. President: I desire to ask leave:of absence for the genttleman from Pike [Mr. Archer], for an indefinite period, on account of sick ness in his family. Leave was granted nem. con. Mr. TRUED)ALE. Mir. President: I wish to ask leave of absence for the gen tlemnan from Mercer [LMr. Poage], on account of ill health, Leave was granted nem. con. SUSPENSION OF FIVE MINUTES RULE. Mr. CROSS. Mr. President: I wish to move that during the discussion of tlhe matters now under consideration, the five minutes rule t)e suspended. Mr. TURNER. Mr. President: I would inquire of the gentleman if he wishes the motion to apply to the Committee of the Whole and Convention both, or only the committee? Mr. CROSS. The commnittee only. Mr UNDERWOOD. Mr. President: I rise to an inquiry. Would that leave the ten minutes rule in force? The PRESIDENT. It would; that being a standing rule of the Convention. ABSENT, OR NOT VOTING. Allen of Alex. Hanna, Skinner, Archer, Hay, Sutherland, Atkins, Medill, Tubt s, Bowinan, Moore, Turner Brown, Neece, Vandeventer, Cary, Perley, Wall, Cross, Pillsbury, Wells, Dement, Poage, Whleaton, Goodhue, Ross, Wilson Haines of CookScholfield, Mr. Pr-esident-30. So the motion of Mr. Cross that the five minute rule be suspended during discussion of the report under consideration, was agreed to. MEMORIAL PAGE. Mr. BROMWELL. Mr. President: Are resolutions in order? The PRESIDENT. A resolution can be entertained by common consent. Mr. BROMWELL. There will be no objection to this, I am sure. The Secretary read the resolution offered by Mr. Bromwell, as follows: Resolved, That a page of the journal of this Convention, suitably inscribed, be set apart as a mnemorial page, in respect to each of the deceased members of t'his Convention. Mr. BROmIWELL. Mr. President: The resolution means that a page of the journal of the Convention shall be set apart, and the name of each deceased member in scribed t hereon. The resolution was agreed to nero. con. SECRET SOCIETIES. Mr. CARY. Mr. Chairman: I cannot see the necessity of this amendment. Here is a provision allowin g a connection to be ma de, aud that in connection with the section in the bill of rights, providiBg tha t prop erty s hall no t be t aken or condemned without just compensation. I think the two are all that is necessary, The amendment offered by Mr. Benjamin, was not agreed to. Mr. ALLEN, of Cr awford. -Mr. Chai rman: I desire to offer the following amendment: Insert the words "or consignee" after the word "warehouse" in second line-also the same words in third line. I gather, from the tendency of the debate this morning, that these Chicago warehousmen have a way of gettiiig all the grain shipped into Chicago warehouses I have been shipping grain for the last few years-nlot to Chicago, but to other places. I consign my grain to commission merchants in whom I have con[-,dence, with instructions to sell, whenever they could sell to the best advantage. I think some provision should be provided here, bv which shippers can consign their grain to whom they please, and not be compelled toplace it in the hands of warehousmen. Mr. WAIT. Mr. Chairman: i do not rise for the purpose of making a speech, but I am in favor of the proposition intended to be embodied in section five This whole article seems to have been gotten up with the impression that all the grain raised in the State must be shipped to the city of Chicago, and there left with the warehousemen and eleva Mr. COD Y asked, and by unanimous consent obtained, leave to offer a petition on the subject of secret societies. The petition was referred to the Committee on Miscellaneous Subjects. SUSPENSION OF FIVE MINUTES RULE. The PRESIDENT. The suspension of the standing order limiting debate to five minutes does not operate to suspend the ten minutes rule. Mr. CROSS Mr. President: I then mo ve th at the rule allowing only five minutes be suspended. I do not wish to suspend the rule further than while the report of the Committee on Railroad Corporations is under consideration. The yeas and nays were ordered, and being taken, resulted-yeas, 30, nays, 23, -as follows: 1631 TUESDA-Y, Coolbaugh, Craig, Cumi-aings, Forman, Kln,Z, McCoy, McDowell, Me,rriam, NA.YS. Abbott, -ilis, Snyder, Allen of Crfd.,Eijglish, Underwood, Anderson, Gamble, Wtgner, Br(-.)wning, Haines ofLake,Wait, Bryan, Hankins, Washburn, Buxton, Hayes, Wendl,ng, Cameron, Rice, Wright-23. F,Idredge, Sharp, WARElfOUSES, ETC. The PRESIDENT. The Conventiou will now be declared resolved into a Committee of the Whole. So the Convention, as in Committee of the Whole (-,,'4r. Peirce in the chair), resunied the coii5;ideration of the rep,,)rt of the Committee on Miscellaneous Corporations. The CHALIRLAIAN. The question ig upon the amendment of the -eiutleman fr,)m McLean [Mr. Benjamin] to section five. The Clerk read the amendment offered by Mr. Bebjamin, as follows: - Insert aft(-r the word "shall" in the fourth line, the words, "upon just compensation." YEAS. Anthony, Bayne, BeDjamin, Bromwell, Church, Cody, Fox, Fuller, Goodell, ]Uart, Harwood, Hildrup, .arker, pParks, Peirce, Robinson, Sedgwick, .Sher-rill, DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. tIr. BAYNE. Mr. Chairman: I Would like to offer an amendment. The CHAIRMAN. Two amendtments are pending. ["They are accepted."] The CHAIR MAN. If they are ac cepted, the gentleman's amendment is in, order. Mr. BAYNE. The gentleman from: Crawford [Mr. Allen] has moved to insert 'any consignee," after the word "ware house." I desire to insert after that, "whether in bulk or in bags," which will be very essential if one desires to ship to an agent or commission merchant. iMr. HAINES, of Lake. Suppose it be worded "in whatever form it may be." Mr. BAYNE. "Whether in bulk or otherwise." That is my motion. Mr. WAGNER. Mr. Chairman: The amendment offered by the gentleman from Woodford [Mr. Bayne], is a very important one. When grain is shipped in bulk, the consignee, before takiig it, has to pay an additional charge of five dollars, even if he intends to unload it in two minutes after it reaches him. This amendment is pertinent. Bagged grain can be taken from the track, but grain in bulk cannot be received without first paying an additional charge of five dol lais per car, as a tribute to either elevator or warehouses. The question being on the motion of Mr. Wendling, that the committee pro ceed to vote, it was agreed to. The Clerk read the amendment offered by Mr. Bayne, as follows: Insert after "consignee," in line two, "whether in bulk or otherwise." Also, section five, as proposed to be amended by Mr. Bayne, as follows: SEc. 5. All railroad companies receiving or transporting grain shall be required to deliver the same to any elevator or public ware house or consignee, whether in bulk or other wise, to which it may be consigned, provided Such elevator or public warehouse or con signee can be reached by any track owned, leased or used, or which can be used by such railroad companies; and all railroad com panies shall permit connections to be made with their track. so that any public ware house or consignee may be reached by the cars on said railroad, provided such counec tion is authorized by the legal authorities of any town or city where such connection is desired. Mr. HAINES, of Lake. I would like to offer at. amendment to strike out all after the word "railroad," in line six. The CHAIRMAN. The motion is not competent, without leave. Mr. HAINES, of Lake. I-ask leave ["Object! "...Object!"] Mr. ALLEN, of Crawfbrd. Mr. Chairman: I would suggest to the gentleman from Woodf(ird [Mr. Bayne], that his amendment does not read very well. [Laughter].~ nMr. BAYNE. I am satisfied, Mr. Chairman, that there is too much verbiage there throughout, but this is a very essential amendment, and I desire that it be inserted somehow. I will ask the Clerk to put it in after the word "grain" in the first line. The amendment offered by Mr. Allen, of Crawford, as amended by Mr. Bayne, was agreed to. eMr. WENDLING. Mr. Chairman: I move to strike out section six. . The motion was agreed to. - Mr. CARY. Mr. Chairman: I move the adoption of section seven. Mr. GAMBLE. Mr. Chairman: I de. mire to offer a substitute for section six. The CHAIRMIAN. 6ection six has been stricken out, and hene a substitute would not be in (rder. An additional section can be offered. The question is upon section seven. The Clerk will read. Th e Clerk read section seven, as fol lows: SEC. 7. It shall be the du ty of the Legislay ture t o pass all necessary laws to give full effect to this article of the Constitution, which shall be liberally construed so as to protect producers and shippers. Mr. WAIT. Nlr. Chairmnan: I move to strike out the word "Legislature" in the seventh line of section seven, and insert "General Assembly." The motion was agreed to. Mr. WHITING. Mr. Chairman: I move to add to the section the following words: And the enumeration of the remedies here in named shall not be construed to deny to the General Assembly the power to prescribe by,law such other and further remedies as may be found expedient. The CHAIRMIAN. Does the committee consent to the amendment? ["Yes," "yes."] It will be declared adopted. Mr. ELDREDGE. Mr. Chairman: I would suggest to the chairman of tho committee to amend by inserting after the word "laws," in the fourth liile,'"to prevent the issue of false and fraudulent warehouse receipts." Mr. CARY. I will accept the amend mnent. The CHAIRMTAN. The question is upon the adoption of the seventh section. Mr. WAIT. I think with the amend ments that have been suggested and adopted, we can dispose of a portion of this section. Without them, I apprehend we could not. I move to strike out the words, "which shall be liberally construed, so as to pro tect producers and shippers," The por tion proposed to be stricken out means nothing in law, and is at the most but a stump speech. The motion was not agreed to. Mr. McCOY. Mr. Chairman: I wish to offer an amendment to section seven. The object of this sectioni, I presume, is to protect against improper inspection of grain. It is well known that one of the great evils of the State is the fact that the grain of the country goes into the hands of gentlemen who deal iu grain,n and that by anl improper mnode of' inspection, the producers of grain are entirely cheated out of the woroth of their labor. I propose an additional amendment to this section, to followr the words "'shi - pers"':P And the General Assembly shall enact such laws in regard to the inspection of ~rain, as may be just and proper ~or the proltectionof producers, shippers, and receivers of grwinl. 'Mr. UNDERWOOD (irn his seat). In-9 sert "caster beans.'} Mr. McCOY. I would wish it to act as such. The CHAIRMAN. D~)es the gentle-: manl move it as au additionLal section? Mr. McCOY. I move it as an amend. ment to the seventh section. The CHAIRMdAN. There have been other words. inserted after the word "shippers," ill the second tine. The Clerk read the section as proposed to be amended by Mr. McCoy, as follows: SEC. 7. It shall be the duty of the General Assembly to pass all necessary laws to pr tors. Now, it seems to me, the railroad companies ought to be required not only to deliver to public warehouses, but to grist mills, and other places where large amounts of grain are shipped, sub)jeJct to the proviso which follows in this section This article should not be gotten up in favor of warehouses, but for the benefit of the people generally-tthe producers. Ati(i another thing, it seems to me, is wro,X,g. In section four we findd the term "railro,a,d companies;" and section five says "railroads." The term "railroads" is used two or three times in this section. It is used in the fourth line twice. I sup pose it means "railroad companies." A railroad of itself cannot do anything. It is made of wood, iron and dirt, and of course we cannot make railroads account able to the people at all, for they are not accounctable things. Therefore, the term is improperly used, and thle right one, "railroad companies," should be used. I move that as an amendment. 1r. HAYES. Mr. Chairman: I would suggest, with the gentleman's permission, thal the last instance in which the word "railroad" occurs, applies to the track in the sixth line. "So that any public warehouse may be reached by such rail road." There the word "railroad" should be retained as it is. In the other instances the amendment would be a proper one. Mr. WAIT. Mr. Chairman: It seems to me, too, the second line may be im proved by making it read something like this —I am not particular as to language, and do not pretend to be a stickler as to forms-"Railroad companies trans porting grain should be required to de liver the same to any place designiatod" leavitg out the terms "warehouse" and "elevators," so that the companies shall be required to deliver it to any place on their road where it may be consigned, that every bushel of grain shall not be com pelled to pay tribute to the warehouses in Chicago. Mr. CARY (in his seat). The word "consignee" has been suggested. Mr. WAIT. JMr. Clhairman: That will cover it if the word can be used so as to make sense all through the section. I must say I am not particularly in fa vor of this section as it stands. I do not believe it has originated in the interest of the people. I do not believe this is such all article, taking it together with its amendments, as will answer the wants of the producing community. The object of this article is to protect those who produce intrinsic values, whether in grain or anything else. It is to protect the produce~ and not the "middle men," who get rich, while the farmer, the producer, makes Ino money. Money which concentrates ill large cities; always finds its way to legislative halls, when necessary to a-ccompxlish particular ends, and the farmer's interests usually are ignored. I am in favor of some act that will protect farmers. I think we should pass over this carefully, and consider well what we are doing, lest we may be legislating for the bears against the bulls, or the bulls against the bears, leaving the farmers out entirely. Mr. WENDLING. Mr. Chairman: I believe this question has been thoroughly discussed —at least that every one has made up his mind upon it. I therefore mnove that the question be now put. j. - - I I I I- 1: ',....... -..- .1-1"..- -.- -.,-'I'-,-...l-,,, ,",-",, " % -;,- -- -MAY 3,1870. 1635 1636 c'OSTITUTIONAL OYETIO TsDAY, which, perhaps, does not strike gentlemen as clearly as it does to us in the country. There is a very serious grievance in reference to the inspection of grain, and I trust that this additional article presented by the gentleman from Kankakee [Mr. Gamble] will pass, so that if this ilispection of grain shall be as unjust as it has been heretofore supposed to be, the Legislature will be clearly charged with the duty of redressing this wrong also. If the board of trade have got up this article, especially in their own interest Mr. CARY. I wish to say that the board of trade has had nothing to do with this article. Mr. WHITING. Such a charge has been made here, and I am speaking on that h pothesis-but I suppose, as the gentleman from Jo Daviess LMr. Cary] virtually says, that it is the work of the committee presenting it. The matter of grain inspection is a subject of great complaint; and the Le-gislature should certa in ly be charged with the duty of correcting whatever evils may exist. I hope the additional section will be passed. The Secretary read the dditional section offered by AYr. Gamble, as follows: The General Assembly shall pass laws for the inspection of grain for the protection of producers, shippers and receivers of grain and produce. The additional section offered by Mr. Gamble was agreed to. Mr. WRIGHT. I wish to offer an additional section. The Secretary read the additional section offered by Mr. Wright, as follows: All chambers of commerce, boards of trade, or other commercial organizations now existing, or which may hereafter be formed, for the purpose of buying and selling grain or other agricultural products, shall be, and are hereby declared public corporations, and their meetings shall at all times be open to grain growers and agricultural producers of this State, and the books, papers and trans actions of such corporations, shall also at all reasonable times be subject to the examination anid inspection of persons engaged in buying, selling, or producing grain. Mr. WRIGHT. Mr. Chairman: When the article on warehouses was first intro duced, it was my impression that it was improperly introduced into this Consti tutional Convention, that it was a mere article of legislation, that our General Assembly was fully competent to attend to it, and that if the interests of anybody in Illinois, especially the large interests of agriculture, were seriously outraged, those injured could easily elect such a Legislature as would remedy such evils as it is asserted by gentlemen who sup port this report exist. I opposed, con sequently, the adoption of it by my vote, but, it seems, the C, ~innittee of the Whole have taken a dfirent view of it. Feel ing a deep i tersest ill the farmers and producers of Illinols, and it having been asserted that the warehouse abuses were not the only abuses that were felt in Chi cago or elsewhere, there being boards aeo trade and chambers of commerce, in these large cities, which seem to have difficul ties with warehousemen one charging the other with fraud and suspicion, and the others charging back again I wish to remedy all the evils that may grow out of these abuses and among these middle men. Now, if the producers and grain grow ers have access to chambers of commjere,w - if they have access to their books and vent the issue of false and fraudulent warehouse receipts, and to give full effect to this article of the Constitution, which shall be liberally construed so as to protect producers and shippers; and the enumeration of the remedies herein named shall not be construed to deny to the General Assembly the power to provide by law for such other and further remedies as may be found expedient. The General Assembly shall make such laws in regard to the in spection of grain as may be just and proper for the protection of producers, shippers and receivers of grain. The amendment offered by Mr. McCoy was not agreed to. Mr. ATKINS. Mr. Chairman: We have already provided, by section seven, that the General Assembly shall pass all laws necessary to give full effect to this article. We have further just provided, very properly, on the motion of the honorable gentleman from Bureau [Mr. Whiting], that the enactment of remedies by this article shall not be construed to deprive the General Assembly of the power-to provide additional ones. Now, it appears to my mind, that a rtill further amendment is necessary to perfect this section seven. I, therefore, offer the following amendment, to be inserted at the end of the one adopted on motion of the gentleman from Bureau [Mr. Whiting]. It is as follows: Add to the end of the amendment offered by Mr. Whiting, the words: " or to deprive any person of any existing common law remedies." By the adoption of this amendment, we will not impair any remediesor rights provided for in this section, or in any portion of the article, but will preserve them all, whilst further securing, beyond question, the preservation of all existing common law remedies. Mr. CARY. I accept that, Mr. Chairman. Mr. GAMBLE. Mr. Chairman: I wish to propose the following additional section. The Clerk read the section offered by Mr. Gamble, as follows: The General Assembly shall pass laws for the inspection of grain, for the protection of producers, shippers, and receivers of grain and produce. MIr. GAMBLE. Having caught the animal and built a pen to keep him, this section is needed to tie him. Mr. WHIT'ING. Mr. Chairman: I had prepared a section to the same effect, which I will read. It is as follows: The General Assembly shall make such laws in regard to the inspection of grain, as may be just and proper tbr the protection of proL ducers, shippers, and receivers of grain. Mr. Chairman: I do not wish to ofer that in opposition to the section offered by the genltlemanl from Kanxkakee [Mr. Gamble J but I think it is a little fuller than his. Mr. HAINES, of Lake. Mr4 Chairman: Whatever the Legislature think expedi ent, they wtill do. Mr. WHVEITING. Mr. Chairman: I will withdraw the section vwhiche I offer their transfers, they can more readily understand what is going on in th e comllercial world with regard to their products. It is very hard for the producer in Illinois, down in the country, whose sole occupation is, per haps, raising gra in, to a cquire such information of what is going on in public at large. By the newspapers nobody can not know what boards of trade are doing. I picked up a paper a while ago containing this —and I presume there i s not ten per cent. of the peo ple i n the State, who are grain-growers an d produccrs, who would know what it meansreport from the board of trade: The only interest manifested in any market on'change to-day was, as usual, in the wheat ring. This market was active, but as compared with yesterday, was almost quiet, notwithstanding prices were considerably lower. The inquiry for wheat was confined to par ties who went short on the last bulge, aid a few speculators who have confidence in pres ent prices, shippers being comparitively scarce. The grain inspection this morning for to morroyw's posted receipts was: 90 cars wheat, !84 cars corin, 21 cars oats and five cars rye, by raill; 5,400 bu. No. 2 corn, 3,500 bu. re jected corn, 5,900 bu. no grade corn, and 3,500 bu. No. 2 oats by canal. Now, this "buying short" and "buying long" and the "last bulge " is perfect Greek to the grain producer of the State. But if he should be allowed to go on Ichalge without having first to be intro ducecd by some one to whom he is selling grain, he would become familiar withi this language, and would be better pre pared to know whether to sell by the "1 longs" or "shorts," to the " bulls" or to the'bears." I think the grain growers should have access to these boards of trade. hMr. TURNER. Mr. Chairman: I hope that the section will be adopted. I should like to know, and will ask the chairman of' the committee who reported this ware house article [Mfr. Cary] what is meant by the "last bull 8hort" mentioned ill the re port of the board of trade. If he can tell we I may vote for his measure. But I undertake to say that the gentleman does not know what it means, and therefore cannot answer. AMr. CARY. Mr. Chairman: I am glad the gfntlemaii fIorn Stepheniso n I [ir. Turner] is advocating this section. It will kill it. Mr. COOLBAUGH. bMr. Chairman: i have advocated and voted i;br the princi ples proposed ill this article, becaulse I believe they meet a great public want and necessity. i am opposed to any un necessary consumption ot timhe upon this .question.e I think it is apparent to the commuittee that the last proposition offeur ed is not offered tor the purpose of strengthening or supporting this mleasure or in the interest ot Its friends. I hove nowr, slice the majority of the committee !have adopted the principal provisions of this article, that we will proceed to vote down ahl these unIrifendly amlendments, proposed tbr the purpose of defeating and prejventing the carrying out the provisions of the atrtcle. 1Mr. HAYES. Air. President: The proposition of the gentlemlans from Mason [l~h. Wri ght] m~lkcs these boards of1 trade public corporations. 1 imsagine the peo ple of this State are hardly preparedt to give such corporations the power of' taxa nlon. Perhaps the gen~tlemnsk did not consider the effect of his proposition when he introduced it. If he wil intro du~ce a proposltion r'equirig a reasonable 1636 CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION TLT.ESDAY) ed. I wish to say a few words in reference to this inspection matter. lt is charged that all of this article we have been adopti.ug has been gotten up and sent here by the board of trade for their especial use. For my part, I do not care for that, because I believe it is a good thing, and I thank the Convention for it but I think there is one thing more-quite necessary, MA 3,8O EAE - RCEIG.13 thought on the part of the members, having been before them so long, and is asubject that debate, in the limited time we have for considering it, will hardly bring out much light upon. I move the Convention now take it up, and vote on the proposition. The PRESIDENT. The Chair does not regard the motion of the gentleman from McHenry [Mr. Church] as taking precedence of the motion of the gentle man from Crawford [Mr. Allen]. If the Convention should desire to take up the report suggested, they can decline to go into Committee of the Whole. The question being on the motion of Mr. Allen, of Crawford, to go into Com mittee of the Whole on the report on railroad corporations, the motion was agreed to. So the Convention, as in Committee of the Whole (Mr. Sedgwick in the chair), proceeded to the consideration of the re port of the Committee on Railroad Cor porations. [The report is as follows:] SECTION 1. Every corporation organized or doing business in this State, under the laws or authority thereof, shall have and main tain a public office or place in this State tor the transaction of its business, in which shall be kept, for public inspection, books in which shall be recorded the amount of capital stock subscribed and by whom; the names of the owners of its stock and the amounts owned by them respectively; the amount of stock paid in and by whom; the transfers of said stock; the amount of its assets and liabili ties, and the names and place of residence of its officers. And the General Assembly shall, at its first regular session after the adoption of this Constitution, pass laws enforcing by suitable penalties the provision of this sec tion. SEc. 2. The rolling stock, and all other movable property belonging to any railroad company or corporation in this State, shall be considered personal property, and shall be liable to execution and sale in the same man ner as the personal property of individuals, and the General Assembly shall pass no law exempting any such property from execution and sale. SEC. 3. No railroad corporation shall con solidate its stock, property or franchises with any other railroad corporation owning a par allel or competing line; and in no case s h all any consolidation take place except upon public notice given of at least sixty days to all stockholders, in such manner as may be provided by law. SEc. 4. it shall be the duty of the General Assembly to pass such laws as will correct abuses and prevent extortion in the rates of freight and passenger tariffs on the different railroads in this State, and to enforce such laws, by adequate penalties, to the extent, if necessary for that purpose, of forfeiture of their property and franchises. SEC. 5. No railroad or other corporation shall issue any stock, bonds or other evidences of indebtedness, except for money, labor or property actually received and applied to the purposes for which such corporation was created, and all stock dividends and other fictitious increase of the capital stock or indebtedness of any such corporation shall be void. SEC. 6. No contract, obligation or liability whatever of the Illinois Central Railroad csCompany to pay any sums of money into the State treasury, nor any lien of the State upon, or right to tax the property of said company in accordance with the provisions of the charter of Said company, approved February 10, 1851, shall ever be released, suspended, modified, altered, remitted, or in any way or man trner diminished or impaired by legislative or other authority; and all moneys derived from said company, after the payment of the State debt, shall be appropriated and set apart for the payment of the ordinary expenses of the State government, and for no other purposes whatever. The CHAIRMAN. The question is on the adoption of the first section. The Clerk r ea d s ection o ne, as fol lows: SEC. 1. ]Every corporation organized or do ing business in th is State, under the laws or authority ther eof, shall have and main tain a public office or place in this State for the transaction of its business, in which shall be kept, for public inspection, books, in which shall be recorded the amount of capital stock subscribed, and by whom; the names of the owners of its stock, and the amounts owned by them respectively the amount of stock paid in, and by whom the transfers of said stock; the amount of its assets and liabilities and the names and place of residence of its officers. And the General Assembly shall, at its first regular session after the adoption of this Constitution, pass laws enforcing by suitable penalties the provisions of this sec tion. Mr. HAINES, of Lake. Mr. Chairman: The word "railroad" seems to have been omitted before "corporations." I move to insert it. Mr. ALLEN, of Crawford. The sec tion was intended to embrace all corpor ations. Mr. ROSS. In the eighth line the language is, "at its first regular session, after the adoption of this CoUstUtioD." Would it not be better to give the Legis ture a little more scope than one session? I move to strike out those words. Mr. CODY. Mr. Chairman: Was there an amenment offered by the gentleman from Lake [Mr. liaines]? The CHAIRMAN. The Chair did not understand the gentleman from Lake as making a motion-only a suggestion. The question is on the motion of the gentleman from Fulton [Air. Ross.] Mr. HAINES, of Lake. I will make that motion, now, Mr. Chairman. I want this to relate to railroad corporations only. I do not wish to have any confu sion. This article will have to receive construction from the courts, and I want it to relate exclusively to railroad corpor ations, so that there will be no mixing in its construction. Let the courts un derstand that we had in view railroad corporations. There may be charitable corporations, in regard to which the rule of construction would be favorable. This puts'all in one class, whatever the object of the corporation may be, and I object to railroad corporations being ex cused under the necessities of other cor porations. Mr. ROSS. Mr. Chairman: I rise to a~ point of order. I object to debate, when there is no motion of the kind pending. The CHAIRMAN. The point of. order is well taken. Mr. HAINES, of Lake. Does not the Chair entertain mny motion? The CHAIRMAN. It is not in order at present, because the gentleman from iFulton [Mr. Ross] made a motion which was entertained by the Chair, before the Chair understood that the gentleman from Lake [Mr. Hainesl made a motion. Mr. FO(:X. Mr. Chairman: I move to amend-by striking out the entire sentence. I think the provision is merely mandatoryr, and will amount to nothing, as there is no power to enfbrce a mandatory constitutional provision. I am certain it will amount to nothing, if the Legislature has no more respect for this Convention, than the Convention has shown for the Legislature. The CHAIRMAN. The question is on the amendment offered by the gen~leman from Fulton [ir. Ross]. examination of the books of these boards of trade, I will vote for it. The section offered by Mr. Wright was not agreed to. Mr. BUXTON. Mr. Chairman: I wish to offer an additional section. The Secretry read the additional section offered by Mr. Buxton, as follows: SEc. —. This act shall be deemed a public act and shall be in force from and after its passage. [Laughter.] Mr. HAINES, of Lake. Mr. Chairman: I move the committee do now take up the report on railroads. The CHAIRMAN. The question is on the additional section offered by the gen tleman from Clinton [Mr. Buxton]. The additional section offered by Mr. Buxton was not agreed to. Mr. ALLEN, of. Crawford. Mr. Chair man: I move this report be laid aside, to be reported when the committee rises. Mr. CARY. Mr. Chairman: I would suggest to the gentleman from Crawford [Mr. Allen] that we had better report it back at once. Mr. ALLEN, of Crawford. Very well, 3{r. Chairman. Mr. CARY. Mr. Chairman: I move the committee do now rise and report back the article to the Convention, and ask its concurrence therein. The CHAIRMAN. The question is upon the motion of the gentleman from JoDaviess [Mr. Cary]. Mr. FOX. Mr. Chairman: I move to amend-that the committee be instructed to report it to the next General Assembly for their action, under instructions from the Convention. The CHAIRNAN, The Convention cannot instruct the Legislature. The question is on the motion of the gentleman from JoDaviess [Mr. Cary]. The motion was agreed to. Mr. HAINES, of Cook. Mr. President: I move to have the usual number of copies printed. Mr. CARY. Mr. President: It is not necessary to have it printed. ["Yes, it is."] Mr. TURNER. Mr. President: I move the report lie upon the table and be printed. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon,the motion of the gentleman from Stephenson [Air. Turner] that the report of the Committee on MIiscellaneous Corporations lie upon the table and be printed. The motion was agreed to. RAILROAD CORPORATION~S. Mr. ALLEN, of Crawford. Mr. President: I move that the Convention do now resolve itself into Committee of the Whole to take up the report of the Committee onl Railroad Corporations. Mr. CHURCH. Mr. President: A report was made early in the session from the Judiciary Committee, of certain articles connected with the subject of railroads, and also referring to other corporations bult they are independent propositions. Should they be adopted, it does not necessarily follow that they should go into the railroad article, or any other particular article. Some may be applicable to the bill of rights, or the article on miscellaneous corporations. I should like to have that report considered now in Convention. i do notrbelieve it will require debate, as it is a ma[~ ten that has received a good deal off 410 DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1637 MAY 3, 1870. 1638- COSTITUTIOAL ()OYETION TUESDAY in g ourselves to railroad corporations, and let us know who stand up for these rail. road corporations, and who for the people. Let us have a clear article upon the subject, and let us see now what the sense of this Convention is on the subject of railroad corporations. When we reach other corporations, it will be time enough to talk about them. Mr. ALLEN, of Crawford. Mr. Chairman: The Committee on Railroad Corporations, the majority of them at least, wh le the subject was under consideras tion, thought best to report this article so as to embrace all corporations doing business in this State, for the reason that the same necessity for having an office and keeping books, subject to inspection, in which shall be recorded the names of the stockholders, and also for the transfer of stock is just as strong in reference to insurance companies, telegraph and banking companies in the State, as to railroad companies. I do not propose to detain the committee by discussing the propriety of making the provision hlere. Mr. McCOY. I am in favor of this section, but I ask one question. Would not this section, if adopted as in form, require all the churches of our country to keep an office, and also all cemetery corporations, who have charge of the dead? Mr. ALLEN, of Crawford. I do not think it ever would have that scope. I was going to remark that some insinuations have been thrown out by the gentleman from Lake [Mr. Haines], that railroad attorneys had put these provisions in here, for the purpose of shielding railroad companies. For myself, I desire to protest against the insinuations as unjust and untrue, let them come from whatever source they may. I speak for myself, sir. I do not propose to stand here and have that insinuation thrown into the face of this Convention, without putting upon it the brand of falsehood. There were other members of that committee who were not attorneys for railroads, and were not attorneys at all, and for them I make the same declaration that I make for myself. The committee have no pride in reaching out and grasping after a matter over which they have no control. Great evils are charged to have grown out of the fact that various corporations in other States have been doing business in this State —companies organized ior express purposes, and for a thousand other purposes connected with the material interests of the State. It was thought a matter of protection to the business interests of the State that they should have some books, and some office where those doing business with them might be able to get such information as would enable them to understand with whom they were dealing, and upon what grounds they were dealing. For these reasons we did not limit the section to railroad corporations alone. I repeat, that if no provision has been made upon that subject, such provision ought to be made. Out of the abundance of caution it was thought necessary to call attention to this subject. It is immaterial to me whether the word "railroads" be inserted here or not. It is a subject which demands and should receive our careful and considerate attention. a CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION TURSDAY 1638 Mr. ROSS, Mr. Chairman: I move the vote be taken flist on the amendent of the gentleman from Schuyler ['idr. Fox]. I do not propose to have my ,amendment coupled with his. The CHAIRNIAN. The question is upon the amendment to the amendment. Mr. HAYES. Mr. Chairman: I rise to a point of order. It seems to me that the amendment of the gentleman from Sc huyler [Mr. Fox] is not an amendment to the amendment of the gentleman from Fulton [Mr. Ross]. The gentleman from Fulton moves to strike out certain words, and the gentleman from Schuyler moves to strike out other words. Mr. FOX. Those words are included, Mr. Chairman. Mr. HAYES. I know that; but the amendment is more extensive than that of the gentleman from Fulton [Mr. Rors] The CHKIRMAN. If the committee shalt decide not to adopt the amendment of the gentleman from Schuyler [Mr. Fox], then, ()f course, the question will be upon ttie amendment Df the gentleman from Fulton [.LNIr. Ross]. The amendment offered Ly Mr. Fox was not agreed to. The CHAIRMAN. The question is upon the motion of the gentleman from Fulton [Mr. Ross], to strike out the words after "shall," in the eighth line. The motion of Mr. Ross was agreed to. Mr. HAINES, of Lake. Mr. Chairman: I now move to insert in the first line before the word corporation, the word "railroad." As I was about to state before, this article pretends to be on the subj ect of railroad corporations, and if it becomes the law of the State, it will some day pass uD der the consid.e ration of the courts for construction. It is desirable, therefore, that it shalt stand in the light in which we pretend it shall stand, that it shall be on the subject of railroad corporations, and shall include no other co- porations, so as to give these corporations the benefit of auy rule which may be indulged in their favor, and not the benefit of any rule which ought not to be indulged in their favor. There are a great many corporations in the State,-to use the common phrase, their name is legion and a part f their rules in some instances is that their re Mr. CUMMINGS. Mr. Chairman: I hope the amendment offered by the gentleman from Lake [Mr. Haines] will prevail. I see we have appointed committees on municipal corporations, on miscellaneous corporations, as well as on railroad corporations. This report now under consideration comes from the Committee on Railroad Corporations, and refers exclusively to railroads. Therefore it is very proper to say "railroad cor'poratiods," instead of "corporations," and say definitely in this section to what we refer. The other committees that have bad matters referred to them will take care of those matters; but railroad matters beloi3g to the Railroad Committee. This being their report, it should say just what we desire to say. I hope the amendment will prevail. Mr. CAMERON. Mr. Chairman: I am in favor of the amendment offered by the gentleman from Lake [Mr. Haines]. Thi,3 section, as reported, contains provisions which ought not to be incorporated into this article-which should not be jdcorporated into the Constitution. We have e,ensured very freely and very justly the infamous system of espionage which exists under the United States revenue laws. But if this section, as reported, is adopted, we mak,,, the system complained of positively respectable. It provides that every corporation, private as well as public, shall maintain a public office in this State, and further that the affairs of every private cori)oration shall be open to the scrutiny oi the general public. Interests which affect only those in the incorporation are to be exposed in the most offensive manner to the public eve. How many private corporations have we in this State whose affairs are of no interest to any but the stockholders, and yet, at all times, through the agency of a public office, the condition of their affairs must be open to the scrutiny of those whose curiosity or competing interests may lead them to act the part of censors? Benefit societies, church organizations, cemetery organizations, secret societies, newspaper incorporations, manufacturing associations, all corporations are embraced here, required to have a public office, and their private matters laid open to the MAY 3, 1870. DEBATES AXi) 1'RO()EEDINGS. 1639 road article? There can be no propriety mittee or in the Convention, I shall offer have finished this article, give it any head mittee or in the Convention, I shall offer a substitute for this section, which, I think, will cure the evil complained of. Mr. ATKINS. Mr. Cnairman: My name is attached to this report as a member of the committee, but I confess I am somewhat at a loss to know how I came to overlook the omission of the word "railroad" before the word "corporation" in the first line of the section. In the form in which it now appears, with that term omitted, it certainly does not meet my approval. I hope the word "railroad" will be inserted as proposed, because, first it is proper in itself, and secondly, because I do not think it was within the functions of the Railroad Committee to go beyond railroad corporations in their recommendations or action. Mr. BUXTON. Mr. Chairman: Some insinuations have been thrown out here about railroad attorneys, and as I have had the misfortune to have been employed at some time in my life by a railroad, I will state to the members of this committee that I was not elected to this Convention by any railroad; that ] do not profess to serve any railroad in mny capacity as a delegate of this Convention; and that I do not profess, in acting upon any committee, to confine myself to any particular subject. The committee, cilled the Colmittee on Railroad Corporations, has a right, beyond all question, to report to this Convention an article or section upon any subject, and if it be approved by the Convention, the committee will have discharged a duty as one of the constituent parts of this body. The propriety of extending this section to all corporations was discussed in committee, and I think there was no opposition to it, it being considered proper and right, not only that railroad corporations, but all others should be included, in whose solvency the people are equally interested. The situations of banks and insurance companies should also be known. It is of as much importance to the people of this State that insurance companies should be solvent, as it is for railroad companies. The people have been injured as much by the insolvency of "wild cat" banks and insurance companies,?as by railroad companies. As a matt er of course, it was intended only to apply this section to companies organized for doing business. I am not in favor of the amendment proposed, unless it includes at least barking and insurance companies. Mr. WASHBURN. Mr. Chairman: I do not propose to make a speech, but I desire to say that while the provisions of this section should be applied to some other corporations besides railroads —for instance, banks and insurance companies l-there are others to which they should not be applied. Yet I think this section, as it now stands in this report, should apply solely to railroads. Mr. BUXTON. Mr. Chairman: I would like to make a suggestion. The committee considered that as there was no article on railroads exclusively in the Constitution, it would be proper to report any matter that might properly be placed in an article under the general name of "corporation." Therefore, they shaped this section with that end in vies. Mr. WASHBURN. Mr. Chairmn: I suppose the Convention can, when they have finished this article, give it any headiDg they like. There is no necessity, sir, no compulsion to put all the provisions in regard to the different corporations in one article. But to the other point. The people expect that this -Convention will inaugurate by this article a contest between the people and the railroads, and in order to do that most effectively this Convention ought to strip this article of all incumbrances, and ought not to have any other subject mixed up with that of railroads in this article, which may serve as a barrier or intrenchment for the railroads, behind which they may shelter in the coming contest. For one, my feelings are in favor cf stripping this article of every incumbrance, everything which would serve as an intrenchment behind which the railroads may fight, in the coming contest, which all are expecting, between the railroads and the public. I want it to be an open field for a free and fair fight, without any incumbrance whatever. Mir. UNDERWOOD. I think we ought to insert the word railroad" in this section. All the other sections refer to railroad corporations. As to insurance companies, we have at present a very good law, providing all that is here required in regard to them. The question being on the adoption of the amendment offered by Mr. Haines, of Lake, to insert the word "railroad" after "every," in line one, it was agreed to. Mr. BUXTON. I move to amend by inserting "banking and insurance companies." The motion was not agreed to. Mr. TRUESDALE. Mr. Chairman: I offer the following amendment: After the word "whom," in the sixth line, insert the words la transfer office, at which the transfer of stock shall be made." Mr. HAINES, of Lake. Mr. Chairman: I think this section is well prepared as applied to railways, ankl am in favor of it now without further amendment. It was prepared by the Railroad Committee, who are supposed to be familiar with this subject. When I referred to railroad attorneys, I had no member of the Convention in my mind, and did not kzow that any member of the committee had ever been engaged as a railroad attorney. I wished to cast no reflection upon any particular member. I I think this article is well dl-awn, and is well enough without amendment. Mr. ALLEN~, of Crawford. Mr. Chairman: With the explanation of the gene~ tleman from Lake [Mr. Haines], I withdrawv anything I said in my remarks that might be considered offensive. Mr. HAINES, of Lake. I did not consider anything the gentleman said, as offensive, at all. -Mr. COOLB.IUGH. Mr. Chairman:. I have read over this first section withna great deal of care. To my mind, it is very well, as far as it goes, and will require a great many things to be done byr railroad corporations within the State that they always should have done, yet from a careful reading of it, I see that it does not provide that railroad companies shall keep a transfer office within this State. Nqow, it seems to me tha~ this is a matter that must have been overlooked by the committee, fur otherwise I regard roa d article? There can be no proprietyin doing so. I desire to see the railroad question treated upon its own merits. The public expect we will act upon it squarely and without dodging, that we will place restrictions on these corporations which we may not find necessary to impose on any other corporation. The special abuses which have crept into the railroad sys. tem demand a special remedy. I therefore hope that the amendment of the gentleman from Lake [Mr. Raines] will be adopted by this committee, and that the article will not be hampered and embarrassed by a provision so sweeping as that reported. Mr. HlAINES, of Cools. Mr. Chairman: The Convention appointed a Committee on Miscellaneous Corporations, Municipal Corporations, and Banks and Currency, and I suppose it was not the intention of the Convention when ap pointing the Committee on Railroads, that they should make a report in reference to anything but railroads. What do we find? We find that the first section of the article, as reported to this Convention, has not a word to say about railroads at all, but that the article after that, goes on to talk about railroads. When the article was first presented to me, I was impressed with the idea that the committee seemed to try "how not to do it." That is the impression that has been on my mind ever since the section was reported to the Convention. I do not wish to say this in disrespect to the committee, or anybody else, but it seemed to me as though they wanted to bring all the other interests in this State in antagoreism to this subject, and therefore defeat its adoption. Now, the gentleman from Crawford [Mr. Allen] says it is necessary to have something of this kind in the Constitution, because we have insurance companies doing business in this State, and they must be looked after. Does the gentleman not know that we have an insurance law in this State, that the insurance bureau is in the hands of the Auditor of the State, and that he can make as many visits to every insurance company and other agency for business in the State as he pleases? He may visit them every day, under the powers the Legislature has given him, under the broad seal of the State. The law requires them now to make a report to hima once a year. They are obliged'to do it, and as much oftener as he pleases to demand it. They are obliged, under the penalty of forfeiture of their charters, to answer at any or all times, any and all questions, that fanctionary may put to them. Now, sir, one of the crying evils, at least that which I have heard fr,om the people in my section of the country, in regard to the railroads is, that there is a tendency to consolidation; that they do not keep their offices in the State, that their deposits are all sent to the city of N~esw York; that their transfer books, and all their directors are there; that they are only nominally in this State If this Railroad Committee had had honestly at heart a remedy for the evil which the people complain of, they would have reported a very different sectinn fro,m the one under consideration, it seems to me. At the proper time, either in the cta MAY 3, 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1639 14O c'OSTITUTIOXAL c'OYEXTION TUESDAY, that is, that it prevents a railroad corpo ration from having more than one book. they can have two. They can have a transfer book in New York and one in this State. Mr. MEDILL. The point I make, is this, that if transfers "may be made," the railroads will not be obliged to make them. It will be just as it is now. If it reads, "shall be made," they may also keep transfer books in New York, or in New Orleans, or London, but we should insist on their keeping one in the State of Illinois, at all events. Mr. ANTHONY. Mlr. Chairman: I wish to add after the words which have now been added-after the word "officers" in the seventh line-the following words: Insert after the word "officers," in the seventh line, the following: "The directors of every corporation shall, annually, make a report to the Auditor of Public Accounts or some officer to be designated by law, of all their acts and doings, which report shall in clude such matters relating to railroads as may be provided by law." It is apparent to every gentleman in the Convention, who has reflected in the least upon this subject, that there is great ignorance prevailing to-day in regard to railroads in our State. If a gentleman wishes to find what the cost of a railroad is, what its capital stock is, what charges are made for freight, or any other information in regard to railroads, there are no means of ascertaining known to citizens, except by personal application to one of those companies for that informnation. Now, a gentleman upon this floor within the last few days, has, to my certain knowledge, endeavored to find out what was the cost of one of our railroads-the Illinois Central-the cost of building and the cost of stocking it, and he found it impossible, except by a personal application to the officers of that company. There are no means of acquiring this information, I repeat, except by a personal application to each and every one of these corporations. Now, to every one who has paid the least attention to this subject, it is apparent that, if the public mind were educated by spreading before it all the facts pertaining to th-,se railroads, it would be a matter of great advantage. So important was it considered that, when the recent Social Science congress of this country met in the city o f New York, it called public attention to this subject, and in its report I find some remarks editorially in regard to this matM ter, saying that the difficulty of solving the railroad problems now pressing upon us results from the very fact that the people are destitute of the requisite facts, in order to draw correct conclusions. I will read a short extract. tect its own interests by intrusting them to public officials whose duty it shall be to study these problems, in behalf of the public, and to see that it suffered no detriment. The corporations always secure the best abil ity the country affords,. These men have for thirty years educated public opinion as they desired;.the doctrine of private ownership and vested rights have been thoroughly incul cated; all the knowledge on the subject has been confined to them and legislative bodies; even the most intelligent and honest have been as clay in their hands. Now that the mischief is in a great degree' accomplished; now that the lines of transportation have, like the Erie, become a scandal, or like the New York Central, a fraud, or like the Pennsylvania Central, a political dynasty; now,at last, the community are awakening to a con sciousness of the fact that its trusts have been abused and its best interests jeopardized. The movement, so far as developed, has taken the right direction; the demand is for correct in formation. Commissions have been organiz ed in many States having charge of the sub ject. As yet, however, not much has result ed from their labors, and those composing them do not. indeed, seem to have realized the magnitude of their task. Two of these commissions are now at work in Massachusetts, and the reports embodying the first re sults of their labors may be expected during the coming winter. It is greatly to be hoped that they will throw some light on this very complicated problem. The ground is taken that these railroads are charged with great public trusts, are held by individuals for public uses, and subject in various ways to the exigencies of the public service. If every railroad in the State of Illinois were compelled to make an annual report of its acts and do ings, including various things which are set forth in this report, a most valuable fund of information would be supplied to which the publ:c might resort, and from which they might deduce some cor rect conclusions. In the State of Massachusetts the items included in the report are all set forth, including the capital stock, and if increased, how much. The evil of increasing the stock of corporations without the public knowing anvthing about it, is one of the greatest evils of modern times; and without taking up the time of the committee further, I merely make this explanation, and ask that the amendment be adopted. Mr. WHITING. Mr. Chairman: I most heartily subscribe to all the gentleman from Cook [Mr. Anthony] has said in relation to this matter. A legislative committee, last winter, tried to find out something about railroads, and I know something about the trouble it took to learn the amount of the transportation upon the railroads of the State of Illinois. After long and laborious search, we learned that there weres $30,000,000 paid in this State for freights. We ought to have been able to have gone to the Auditor's office and found it at once without inquiring of every railroad Separately, and guessing at what we could not learn from them. I believe that the county of Bureau, and other counties, have had a great deal of trouble in assessing these railroads, and once when we assessed them at the rate of $6,000 or $7,000 a mile, they took the case to the supreme court and beat us in the end. A few days ago a stockholder gave us the items of the stock on his road, and how much he had realized from it, and the deduction, from the information he gave, was that the road was worth $140,000 a mile, though assessed only at about one-twentieth of what it was actually worth;, and yet the railroad beat us in the =xupreme court because w~could not or this as an appropriate and very well drawn section. It is now impossible, Mr. Chairman for any citizen of the State of Illinois who happensto be a stockholder or the owner of any shares of stock in any ob the principaleor more importa nt railroad companies organized in this State, to transfer that stock without sending it to the city of New York or the city of Bos ton, and it seems to me that there should be a provision in this section, requiring railroad companies to keep a book for the transfer of stock at their office, which they are obliged, according to this sec tion, to keep within the limits of the State. ro illustrate, Mr. Chairman, I had oc casion sometime ago to transfer a few shares of stock that I held in one of the railroad companies in this State, and ab solutely the only way that I could do it was to send that stock to the city of New York, get it transferred there upon the books of the company, get a new cer tificate issued there for it, have it re turned to me by express, and deliver it over to the party to whom I sold the stock, before i could: get my pay for it, and yet that very company has its prin cipal office within the limits of this State, in the city of Chicago, within a few squares of my place of business. Now, Mr. Chairman, this is a defect in the provisions of the section, which it seems to me, should be remedied. It is a case that suitable provision should be made fior. There is no reaaon that can be given by any gentleman why a cor poration deriviJg its powers under the laws of this State should not provide a suitable place within the State for the transfer of stock, and I suggest to the honorable chairman of the committee that the section be so amended as to pro vide for this. Mr. BUXTON. Would not the amendment of the gentleman from R(ock Island [Mlr. Truesdale] meet the difficulty? Mr. COOLBAUGH. I do not know. I should like to hear it read. I The Clerk read the amendment offered by Mr. Truesdule, as follows: Insert after the word "whom" in the sixth line, the following: "A transfer office, at which transfers of stock shall be made." Mr. COOLBAUGH. It seems to me, M~'r. Chairman, that that might exclude the opening of transfer books anywhere else. I think the word "may" would be better than "shall." Mr. TRUES>DALE. I will accept that amendment, Mr. Chairman. The CHAIRMAN. T:he Clerk will read the amendment as modified.. The Clerk read the amendment offered by Mr. Truesdale, as modified, as follows: Insert after the word "'whom" in the sixth line, the following: "A transfer office at which the transfers of stock may be made.,, Mr. HAYES3. Mir. Chairman- I suggest that that amendment will require at-tention from thle Committee on Revison, because as it comes in, it makes nonsense of the remaining part of the section. It had better be put at the end of the sentence, as a separate clause, and I move that amendment. Mr. TRUESDALE. I will accept that amendment. Mr. ]MEDILL. I hlope the word "may" will be converted into "'shall. MIr. TRUES3DALE. The. objection to Into no other portion of our economical system have such grave abuses penetrated. Great lines of railway, on which whole communities depend for their material progress, and even subsistence, have come to be regarded as the private property of individuals. They are, in fact, trusts held by individuals for public uses, and subject to certain claims for private remuneration. Regarded as private property, they have been treated as such. The question with their managers has been, not how transportation over them could be made cheapest, and yet be remunerative, but upon how large a body of stock capital the movement over them could be made to pay an annual dividend of six, to ten per cent. This deplorable condition of affairs, affecting the very basis or all modern development, has mainly arisen from the fact that the community has never thought it worth while to pro t 1610 CONSTITUTIONA.L CONVENTION TUESDAY, I' MAY 3, 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 161 dinances of the larger cities of this coun try, li mit the charg es of hack, omnibus and dray lines. The s tatutes of our own State, n ot o nl y p rov ide for the condemnation of private pro p erty for the sites of grist-mills, but also limit t he amount of tolls to be taken for grinding at these mills. In some of the States, the charges of inn-keepers and the fees of profession al men, and in nearly all of the States, the rates of interest which money lenders a.:d, banking corporations may lawfully take, are regulated and limited by legis. lative enactment. The power to make these laws, and a multitude of others of a like character, rests on the right and du ty of the Legislature to protect the peo ple by statutory regulations against impo sition and extortion. Upon authority and principle, it may be safely asserted that in the absence of charter contracts to the contrary, the Leg islature may, from time to time, regulate and limit the tolls which railroad compa nies may lawfully take, in the same manner as the Legislature may regulate and limit the tolls to be taken by ferry, bridge, plank-road and turnpike companies; in the same manner as municipal authorities may regulate and limit the charges of hack, omnibus and dray lines; in the s- me manner as the tolls at grist mills, the charges of inn-keepers, the fees of pr(o fessional men, and interest on loaned money, may be regulated and limited. These are governmental powers, and by theterm "governmental," I here mean, not judicial, but legislative powers. To declare what the law is, or has been, is a judicial power; to declare what the law shall be, is legislative. The law is applied by the judicial de partment, and made by the legislative. It is both the right and the duty of the Legislature, not to await the action of the judiciary, where the common law has fur nished no adequate remedies for existing evils, but to take the initiative, and place limitations upon tolls and charges and fees and interest, whenever such liraita. tions are essential to the public good: provided, always, that the Legislature has not bartered away absolu ely, beyond re, call, to extortioners, the governmental powers, whereby it might otherwise pro tect the people against their impositions. This brings us directly to the question, whether or not the governmental powers entrusted to the Legislature, to be exercised for the public good, as occasion may require, are the subject matter of contract, of mere bargain and sale. The following provision was incorporated in the Constitution of 1818, and retained in that of 1848: The powers of the government of the State of lllinois shall be divided into three distinct departments and each of them be confided to a separate body of magistracy, to-wit: those which are legislative, to one, those which are executive, to another, and those which. are judicial to another. C7onstitustion of 1848, article two, section one. I maintain that under this constitutional provision, which has been in force ever since this State was organized, the Legislature has had no power as a party to make a contract, the effect of which would be to control or embarrass governmental powers and duties. To bold otherwise is to affirm that the Legislature may abdicate the authority and relieve itself of the responsibility conferred and imposed upon this department of the [ The CHAIRMAN. The question is I upon the adoption of section three. The Clerk read section three, as fol E lows: L SEc. 3. No rallroad corporation shall con solidate its stock, property or franchises with any other railroad corporation owning a par allel or competing line; and in no case shall any consolidation take place except upon public notice given, of at least sixty days, to all stockholders, in such manner as may be provided by law. Section three was agreed to. The CHAIRMAN. The question is upon the adoption of section four. The Clerk read section four, as fol lows: r SEc. 4. It shall be the duty of the General Assembly to pass such laws as will correct abuses and prevent extortion in the rates of freight and passenger tariffs on the different railroads in this State, and to enforce such laws by adequate penalties, to the extent, if necessary for that purpose, of forfeiture of their property and franchises. Mr. BENJAMIN. Mr. Chairman: I have given the subject of the regulation ! of railroad freights some attention, but I do not know that I have condensed my thoughtsso that I can develop them with in the ten minutes. Corporations and especially railroad corporations, have, within the last few years, asumed and exercised powers in compatible with the public welfare. Per. haps, there is no danger so much to be ; apprehended, and, if possible, guarded against by the people of this State, as that which has its source in the construction placed by the courts upon what are called legislative, or charter contracts. In the ory, railroad corporations are created for the public good. In practice, they be come oppressive by being allowed, under the claim of charter contracts, to fix their rates of toll for the transportation of per sons and property. Whenever the public interests demand the construction of a railroad, the Legis lature without any hesitancy, authorizes the corporation to take private property the very homestead for that purpose. Whenever the same public interests require a limitation of the rates of railroad charges, the plea is set up that the Legislature has no power, whatever, to act upon the matter. The principle of public benefit, when invoked in aid of a railroad is all powerful. The same principle when appealed to for the protection of the people against imposition and extortion has hitherto been held to be utterly powerless. The interest of individuals must yield to that of the public. The interest of the public has been deacared to be subordinate to that of railroad corporations. And when we ask for the reason of this distinction between individual rights and corporate rights- T when we ask why it is that the public interests, although paramount to i ndividual interests, must succumb to corporate interests-we are told that the Legislature has made contracts, whereby it has abdicated in favor of corporations, the governmental powers, intrusted to it by the sovereign peopleI say "governmental powers," because in the absence of a charter contract, the power of the Legislature to regulate and limit the tolls which the owners of a railroad may lawfully take is unquestionable. The statutes of the several States afford numberless instances of legislative limita tion of the tolls of ferry, bridge, plankroad and turnpike companies. The or rive at the facts. If the facts had been at the Auditor's office, an d we c oul d have had them, it might have made a mate rial difference. I th in k this is an important amend ment, and I hope it will be adopted. Before closing I wish to say that in supporting these amendments, and such as I may move myself, I intend no reflection on the committee. I believe the committee has worked in the interest of popular rights, although the chairman of the committee has acknowledged himself a railroad attorney. I am sure we should not have known that fact from this report. This report shows him to be a -atriotic Illinoisan and a friend of popular rights. Mlr. WENDLING. I now renew my motion for a vote. The motion was agreed to. Mr. BUXTON. I have consulted with the committee, and we are willing to accept the proposition of the gentleman from Cook [Mr. Anthony]. Mr. CUMMINGS. I rise to a point of order. The committee have made their report, and its functions have now ceased, so far as accepting amendments are concerned. Mr. BUXTON. The amendment has been accepted so far as we have been able to do it. Mr. TRUESDALE My amendment not having yet been acted upon, I shall present an amendment in a little different form. The CHAIRMAN. The motion of the gentleman from Cook [Mr. Anthony] is not in order at present, since the gentleman from Rock Island [Mr. Truesdale] has changed his amendment. The question now is on the amendment of the gentleman from Rock Island as amended by the gentleman from Cook [Mr. Hayes], and accepted. The Clerk read the amendment offered by Mr. Truesdale, as amended by Mr. Hayes, as follows: Insert after the word "business," in the third line, the words: "Where transfers of stock may be made." The amendment offered by Mr. Tru dale, as amended by Mr. Hayes,v agreed to. The CHAIRMAN. The question up on the ame ndmsentof the gentlem from Cook [Mr. Anthony]. Mr. ATKI~NS. Mr. Chairman: I wou suggest an amendment, to insert that t directors shall be upon oath. Mr. ANTHONY. Mr. Chairman: aceept the amendment. The CHAIRMAN. The question upon the amendment of the gentlem from Cook [Mr. Anthony], as amend by the gentleman from Morgan [Mr. A kins], and the amendment is declar, adopted. The question is upon secti( one as amended, and the section is d clared adopted. The question is ups section two, and the Clerk will read. The Clerk read section two, as i lows: SEC. 2. The rolling stock, and all oth movable property belonging to any railro~ company or corporation in this State, sh~ be considered personal property, and shs be liable to execution and sale in the san manner as the personal property of indivi uals, and the General Assembly shall pass l law exempting any such property from exec tion and sale. Section two was agreed-to. 411 i I i t c t MAY 3) 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1641 p 1612 COSTITUTIOAL COVENTIO TUESDAY, The corporation which accepts from the Legislature exemption from governmental control, knowing that it is deal i- g with an agent bound by duty not to impair a public right, does so at its peril. Nay, more; the corporation which accepts from the Legislature a grant of any essential attribute of sovereignty, should be treated both in morals and in law as a party to a fraud upon the inherent rights of the people. The same constitutional provision confides legislative powers to one body, executive powers to another, and judicial powers to another. If legislative powers may be disposed of by contract, why may not executive and judicial powers be sold? We all recognize the principle that exec utive and judicial powers are entrusted to the Governor and the judges to be exercised by them while in (ffice, and then turned over unimpaired to their successors. I believe that the day is not far distant when the courts of this country will settle down on the firm fundamental principle that no department of government, be it legislative, executive or judicial, can abandon, diminish or bargain away, for any consideration, or upon any pretense whatever, the governmental powers entrusted to ic by the sovereign people, to be exercised for the promotion of the general welfare. When the people of this State in 1818, and again itn 1848, confided to the General Assembly the legislative powers of this State, was it contemplated that th e agents entrusted with these governmental powers should sell any portion of them to other organizations, or parcel them out by contract to private corporations? It is a well settled principle, that where a trust is confided to any class of persons, the trustees cannot transfer that trust to others. "What trust, what confidence is more sacred, more responsible than the power to make the laws of a free people? rhe power is not only delegated to the two tranches of the Legislature, but there( is an obligation-a duty imposed upton them to make all such laws as are necessary and proper for the the interests of the people, and good order of the body politic." The language of our State Constitution, reasoun, and sound policy, all concur in bringing us to the conclusion that the law-making power being entrusted to the Le gislature by the Constituti,jn, to be ex ercised as occasion may require, for the promotion of the general welfare, cannot be perman ent ly transferred to any other bdody. If the courts will fall back upon this principle, we need not feel alarmed at the growth and power of corporations. They are dangerous to the people only as they are allowed, under the pretense of a bargain, to appropriate to their own purposes the governmental powers confided to the Legislature. "The great object of an incorporation," says Chief Justice Marshall, *is to bestow the character and properties of an individuality on a collected and changing body of men." idrovidence Bank vs Billings. 4 Peters, 567. The creation of private corporations, the bestowal of the attributes of individ cality upon these ideal creatures, the placing them, as-to legal rights, on the same footing as natural persons, are proper subjects of legislative action. And we readily concede that theseideal creatures, private corporations, cannot be arbitrarily destroyed by the Legislature, and that The powers of sovereignty confided to the legislative body of a State are undoubtedly a trust committed to them to be executed to the best oftheir judgment for the public good; and no one Legislature, by its own acts, disarm their successors of any of the powers or rights of sovereignty, confided by the people to the legislative body, unless they are authorized to do so by the Constitution under which they are elected. * * And in every controversy on this subject, the q uestion m us t d epend on the Const tution of the State, and the extent of the power thereby conferred on the legislative body.-Ohio Life Insurance and Trust Company v. Debolt, 16 Howard, 431. The power to regulate the reciprocal rightsand'duties of common carriers and private citizens who may desire to tiavel upon highways constructed for the public use, is, as we have seen, a governmental power-one of the attributes of sovereignty confided to the Legislature to be exercised for the public good. And where is the provision of our State Constitution which authorizes one Legisias ture to disarm a succeeding Legislature of this power, the proper exercise of which, we have been taught by sad experience, is so essential to the protection of the traveling public? In another case, Justice Woodbury says: One of the highest attributes and duties of a Legislature is to regulate the public matters with all public bodies, no less than the community, from time to time, in the manner which the public welfare may appear to demand. It can neither devolve these duties permiaanently on other bodies, nor permanently suspend or abandon them itself, without being usually regarded as unfaithful, and, indeed, attempting what is wholly beyond its constitutional competency.-,East Ilartj rd v. Hartford Bridge Company, 10 Howar d, 534. Now, whether railroad corporations are to be regarded as quasi public bodies, or as private bodies, forming a portion of the community, I maintain that the regulation of rates of toll for the conveyance of persons and property upon the railroads, the public highways, as the public welfare may demand, is a legislative duty, the permanent suspension or abaiidonment of which is wholly beyond the constitutional competency of the Legislature. Moreover, a grant by a public agent bound in the most solemn manner not to throw away the governmental interests confided to it, is different from a grant by an individual who is master of a subject. the rights which they may possess by virtue of their individuality or existence, are protected by the same Constitution, which is the magna charta of the whole people. But'in the language of Justice Daniel: aThe opin ion seems to have obtaine d that the right of property in a chartered corporation was more sacred and intangible than the same right could possibly be in the person of the citizen; an opinion which must be without any grounds to rest upon until it can be demonstrated either that the ideal creature is more than a person, or the corporate being is less. West River Bridge Companv vs. Dix, 6 Howard, 533. T he Legislature may irrevocably dispose of the lands and public buildings and other property of the State. These are the proper subjects of contract and sale. But a legislative contract to surrender forever to a private corporation any portion of the governmental powers of this State is, in my opinion, unconstitutional and void. It is unconstitutional because the constitutional provision which has been in force here ever since we have had a State organization confides, intrusts, these powers to the Legislature to be'exercised for the promotion of the general welfare, and no,t to be bartered away. It is void, because it is a contract in violation of public duty, and without a competent sutject matter. The Legislature cannot deal, cannot traffic with a sovereign right as private property. Says Justice Daniel: I never can believe in that, to my mind, suicidal doctrine, which confers upon one Legislature, the creatures and limited agents of the sovereign people, the power, by a breach of duty and by transcending the commission with which they are clothed, to bind forever and irrevocably their creator, for whose benefit and by whose authority alhne they were delegated to act, to consequences however mischievous or destructive. Ohio Life Insutrance and Trust Company v. -Debolt; 16'Howard 443. Anid righit here let me ask from what one source have the people of this State suf. fered more mischievous consequences than freom the free exercise of thie assumed right, on the part of the Legislature, to sell out to railroad corporations the power of fixing and exacting from the commuiiity rates of toll -4 ithout limitation? In resisting the usurpations of these wealthy and powerful corporations, we have turned our attention too much to that clause of the Constitution of the United States, which provides that no Ptate shall pass any lawY impairing the obligation of Contracts, and have not pain sufficient attentio~n to that section of our State Constitution, which confides and only confidess the legislative powers of the governmnent to the General Assembly, to that section of the bil l of rights which declares that'all power is inherent in the people." W~e must not forget that a legislative act or charter may contain unc,,ns3itutionlal pro~visions. The real question is slot one eof vested rights under a contract, but one of constitutional power to mnake the contract. The Legislature cannot change the Constitution or make a new Cons titution, and yet it would be doing just this, if it could limit the g(,vern. mental powers of a future Legislatture. Therefo~re, I maintain that corp~oratiouns are subject to governmental powers the same as indiv;_duals; that the charges of railway corporations can be regulated and limited by.... legislative enactment, the same as the tolls of ferry, bridged plank 1642 CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION TUESDAY) government by the sovereign people of the State. 11 The people of the State of Illinois, grateful to Almighty God for civil, polifical a-id religious liberty codfided"-tbat is the word-conflded to the General Assembly those powers of the government of the State, which are legislative-for what purpose? "In order to promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to themselves and their po.,terity." At the same time they declared in the bill of rights that All p wer is inherent in the people, and all free governments are founded on their authority, and instituted for their peace, safety, and happiness. The Legislature of a State, is in no just sense, the sovereign of the State, for sovereignty is the parent, not the offspridg of government. The sovereignty belongs to the people of the State in their origiiial character as an independent community. All political power is inhereut-re mains in the people. In the ladguage of Chief Justice Taney: p MA 3, 180 EAE N RCEIG.14 In furtherance of the views expressed by the gentleman, I offer the following amendment. The Clerk read the amendment, offered by Mr. Ross, as follows: The General Assembly shall, from time to time, pass laws establishing reasonable maximum rates of charges for the transportation of passengers and freight- on the different railroa ds in thlis State, and to enforce such laws by adequa te penalties, and may provide for a forfeiture of their property and franchises. Mr. ROSS. Mr. Chairman: The only material change and alteration in the fourth section, as reported by the committee in the amendment which I have offered, is in providing an obligation on the part of the Legislature, from time to time, to pass such laws and fix such a reasonable maximum rate of charges for railroads in the State, as shall be just to the people. That is the main question. To declare that is within the power of the Legislature, and if we have that power we should so declare it in this Convention. Give them that power, and let them exercise it, to establish a reasonable maximum rate of charges for the transportation of passengers and freight. That covers the whole ground. That is what [ desire the Convention to provide. With that view I introduced the amendment. Mr. BROMWELL. Mr. Chairman: I am very much gratified to see the manner ia which this discussion starts in this Convention. There have been doubts expressed whether this Convention, upon coming to this subject would take the proper stand to secure the rights of the people which have been so long trifled with, and trampled under foot, by the interpretations of the law in this State; and I agree with the gentleman from Fulton [Mr. Ross], that the community at large owe the gentleman from McLean [Mr. Benjamin] thanks, for the masterly manner in which he has demonstrated the right and the power of the people, inheriijg in, ever living, and ever present, to commaud in the name of and for the people, the creatures which they have put on foot, the corporations which they have organized, in respect to the terms upon which they shall enjoy those invaluable franchises which they are lawfully pernmitted to eIjoy. I have no doubt, sir, of the right of the Legislature to pass suitable laws. I have believed since I first investigated these questions that the inherent right of the people, and the power which they confide, vbr its administration, to the General Assembly, cannot be hampered, cannot be bartered away, cannot be compromised. This matter of regulating the affirs of railroads is so demonstrably a subject of g overnmental disposition, that any man who will reflect upon it must see that nothing less than the disposing power of the State can take hold of them. Is the equality and the fairness of rates throughouv the commonwealth to be left to as many different interested corporate associations as may be engaged in managing and handling great public interests, to make all they can for themselves? It is, as has been demonstrated by the gentleman from McLean [Mr. Benjamin], the selling out, or farming out by the Legislature of the powers of government. When the Legislature has incorporated associations for certain purposes, clothed them with the powers of public cor-h road and turnpike companies; the same a s the charges of hack, omnibus and dray l in es; the same as the tolls of millers, the charges of inn-keepers, the fees of profes sional men, and interest on loaned money. The power to make these regulations and limitations are unquestionably legislative, governmental powers, and neither these, nor any ot her legislative powers of a governmental nature, can be irrevocably disposed of by contract to any individual or corporation. There are and can be no vested rights of governmental pewer in any individual or corporation, except those conferred by the Constitution. Wiil any gentleman take the position that the Legislature can endow any iiidividual or corporation with a vested right to commit crime or perpetrate fraud, or practice imposition upon the public? I think not. One Legislature cannot, by contract or otherwise, prohibit succeed ing Legislatures from enacting laws for the prevention and punishment of crime, fraud and imposition. But railroad cor porations declare that they have bought from the Legislature the power to estab lish and exact the exorbitant charges they are now, every day, extorting from the people. Under the claim of vested rights they bid defiance to-I was about to say-the government; but according to the conceit of these corporations, there is no government that can control and regulate and limit their demands. Each claims to be, in this respect, a governme,it unto itself, a sovereignty within a sovereignty. The people sooner or latter will break away from the theory that a railroad, or any private coporation can have a vested right in any governmental power. Let the next Legislature enact substantially the railway laws of England, regulating and limiting the rates of freight and passeiager tariffs, and I firmly believe taat the courts would hold that such reasser tion of go)vernmental control over railroad rates, is not any interference with veste: rights. The time was when city and other municipal corporations claimed that by virtue of their charters, they held vested rights in governmental powers. Even now, the Legislature can not confiscate the private property of a munici pal corporation, or change the uses of its private funds acquired under the public faith. But the courts have lon~g since held that the Legislature cannot transfer to a mlunicipal corporation irrevocable vested rights in governmental powers. And} for one, I am ready to take the broad~ position that it is not and never has been in the power of the Legislature of this State to bind its governmental capacities, by any arratngementsor stipulations, with either public or private corporations, so as to disable itself from enacting any lawsa that may be deemed essential for the public good. The sovereign people, and the sovereign people alone, by the ado tiion of constitutional provisions, can restrict and bind the governmental capacities of th~e Legislatulre Mr. ROSS. Mr. Chairman: I cheerfully subscribe to the views of the gentleman from McLeanl [Mr. Benjamin]. I think the Convention and the people of the State owe him a debt of gratitude. It has the true ring of the doctrine that should be inculcated by all our statesmxen. I I MAY 3) 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1643 porations, thrown about them the fa. citities and capacity of coudeniflidg the land or other property of the citizen, which is the highest, exercise of power f-)f which anY State is capable; when the State, itself, in its plenary pow. er has seen proper to invest these railroad companies with the right, under certain regulations, and by certain formi, to pro. ced in the name of the State, to act, so to speak, as the State, in the exercise of the highest possible functions Of govern. ment, which is the taking of private property for public use, who can deny that this is for public purposes, or ass rt that it is a mere bargain for the beneflt of individual -use? It is as a matter of con' venience that the State does these things, in order to carry on its traffic, do its car. rying, provide for the carrvin of pas. . 9 sedgers, etc., in a more convenient and economical manner, than if it built these roads at its own cost, and under its own immediate superintendence. This is all that is in it. These parties ask of the Stalile to clothe them with these extraordinary powers, that they may proceed in the name, and in the place of the State, and for that purpose they do proceed, they do act, they are recognized, and the rights accrue to the use of the company i a such cases, by which in effect they condemn lands, wh",ch acquirement of land is recognized as an act of the State in its very highest capacity. Now, to set up the pretense that all this is conferred upon individuals for private gain, and that with such grant of power as this, the State irrevocably barters or bargains to these corporations the right to regulate the very traffic of the country, the right to establish regulations, which affect the comniunity in all tlaeir relations, in short, a right to regiilate, commerce within the State, is wholly preposterous, and the light of current events shows that the time has come when it can be no longer maiutaine 1. The State cannot maintain its dignity or welfare while there are such pretensions. Think of the State having a government and Legisiature enacting laws, the whole State, at the same time, swarming with corporations, every one of whom pretends and is allowed to be invested with a part of that law-making power. Ilere we have the I t644 C()TITUTIONAL TUESDAY, whatever they may exercise, under constitutional laws, is beyond our reach or our power. We cannot touch them. Gentlemen do not insist upon our power to do so, and I am sure no lawyer will. If the General Assembly has undertaken to clothe corporations with powers beyond the scope of its authority, the act by which it has attempted it is null and void, and gives these roads no vested rights in the particulars in which legislative authority was exceeded. The courts will say so, and the extent of the righlts they do possess is purely a judicial question. This section, as it now stands, goes quite as far as it is just and proper for us to go. I am sure the gentleman from McLean [Mr. Benjamin] will not insist that this Convention should attempt to divest rights which do exist. And yet, if we,:dopt the proposition of the gentleman from Fulton [Mr. Ross], we may go to that extent. Whether we would or not, I do not know, and no member of this Convention can know, until he makes a critical and thorough examination of the existing railroad charters of the State. The fourth section surely leaves it within the competency of the General Assembly to do all that a legislative body ought to do. SEC. 4. It shall be the duty of the General Assembly to pass such laws as will correct abuses and prevent extortion in the rates of freight and passenger tariffs on the different railroads in this State, and to enforce such laws by adequate penalties, to the extent, if necessary for that purpose, of forfeiture of their property and franchise. Now, Mr. Chairman, if the General Assembly, under the provisions of the charters by which these corporations exist have the power to regulate the tariffs of freights and passage, they unquestionably will do so. If they have not that right, we cannot confer it on them, and it would be improper for us to attempt to do so. It is exclusively a question for judicial action. There is no doubt that the courts of our State will maintain all the lights of the people of the State. There were some incidental questions discussed by the gentleman from McLean [Mr. Benjamin] upon which he and myself might differ, but they do not touch the question before us at present. The authority upon which he relied for some of the opinions to which he gave expression, is the dissenting opinion of a judge, not a decision of a court. I do not propose to enter into the discussion of that opinion now, or to assail its soundness, but to say it is not before ns for cosJsideration. All that is necessary for us to do is, to see that the General Assembly shall be clothed with full and adequate power to do all that a Legislature of right and, in conscience ought to do. That, it will fully have under the fourth section. Mr. BROMWELL. Mr. Chairman: I would ask if the gentleman does not think that this Convention ought to act in the light of its own intelligence, and lay down such principles as it believes to be right, irrespective of what may be the opinions of courts hereafter e Mr. BROWNING. I think it ought to do what it believes to be right, but that it ought to be guided by high moral considerations and becoming regard for all existiug rights of both persons and corporations. We ought not to undert'ke to violate the rights that anybody R ailways heretofore constructed or that may hereafter be constructed in this State are hereby declared public highways, and shall be free to all persons for the transportation of persons and property thereon, under such regulations as may be prescribed by law. I should be in favor of striking out section fou r, except so far as it imposes the duty upon the General Assembly of putting the machinery in motion, for the purpose of defining rights and privileges by which the people of this State can use these public highways. I shall not now enter into an argument of this question further than to say that by declaring these railroads, highways, subject to such regulations as shall be prescribed by law, the foundation is laid for all the legislation that is necessary in order to protect the people of the State. Mr. BROWNING. Mr. Chairman Mr. CHURCH. Mr. Chairman: If the gentleman from Adams [Mr. Browning] will allow me, I should like to modify the direction of my amendment, a-id offer it as an amendment to the substitute offered by the gentleman from Fulton [IMr. Ross], and not to the original see tion. Mr. BROWNING. Mr. Chairman: I think we had better leave this fourth section as it stands. It is quite as far as the Convention ought to go. I do not understand the gentleman from 3IcLean [Mr. Benjamin] to con'.end that this Convention possesses power to divest a corporation of any right which it has acquired and now possesses under the existing Constitution and laws of the State. Mr. BENJAMIN. Mr. Chairman: hatever any corporation possesses as a vested right to-day, we cannot touch. Mr. BROWNING. Mr. Chairman: There is, then, no difference of opinion upon that point, between the gentleman and mvself. Without going into the question at all, as to whether existing corporations have any vested rights-it is not a proper one to discuss here Mr. BENJAMIN. Mr. Chairman: I will suggest one qualification-unless the State should exercise that right under the power of eminent domain —which vas not touched upon in h~y argument. Mr. BROWNING. Mr. Chairman: That is wholly foreign to this question. What rights existing corporations possess is not a matter of inquiry before us. It is purely a judicial question, and so the gentleman from McLean [Mr. Benjamin] regards it and discusses it. I have not looked into any of thleir charters. I do not know what rights, powers or privig leges they may exercise under themn, but whatever they do possess lawfully,r possesses under former valid grants. If a corporation possesses rights, it is because the Conbtitution and laws gave s uch rights, and if th ey do, we cannot take them away. Mr. BROMWELL. Nobody denies that, but ought not this Convention to determine in its own mind what pow ers these corporations do possess, and legislate accordingly? Mr. BROWNIlNG. No, sir. That is purely a judicial question. Mr. BROMWELL. Then we have no right to legislate on the subject at all, until the courts give us a carte blanche. Mr. MEDILL. Mr. Chairman: I hearti ly indorse, so far as able to clearly hear and understand, the argument of the gentleman from McLean [Mr. Benjamin], and I concur with the views of the gentleman from Coles [Mr. Bromwell], in support of the' same line of argument, and I am decidedly in favor of section four or something better in that di.rec tion. I shall vote for anything that is better, if it is proposed. Now, in regard to this question of "vested rights" of corporations, I hold some views that maybe considered hereti cal, perhaps, by legal gentlemen on this floor, whose minds have been warped by the crotchets of law, and who are gov ered more by what is called "precedent and practice" than they are by considerations of human right and the equality of the citizen-the inalienable rights of men. I hold, Mr. Chairman, that the Legisla ture has no power, except what is confer red on it by the people. I contend that the Legislature can confer upon nobody more power than the citizen possesses. We do not go to the Legislature for our rights. It is not the fountain of power, of authority, of liberty. The members are the agents, the creatures, the repre sentatives of the people, delegated to perform acts, and they work under certaia letters of instructions, called the Coonstitution. Now, Mr. Chairman, does any citizen in the State of Illinois possess the right to commit extortion as a common carrier, or to perpetrate abuses on the community beyond the reach of statutory regulations? Can two men, by combining, or five, or fifty, or a hundred do it, without the aid of a charter? If they cannot, then I hold that a charter can confer no power on them that they do not naturally possess as citizens, to do wrong, or to commit wrong upon their neighbors, and upon the community. And whatever power tee Legislature, as the law-making authority, or this Convenxtion has over the actions of the citizens, it has over the doings of a stockholder in a corporation. A man holding stock in a corporation has no peculiar, inalienable rights not common to the people. He becomes no more sacred than a m~an who does not hold stock in a corporation. He has no more vested rights because in a corpora i tion than he has out of it. If the Legislature has attempted to confer on ilndividuals who are stockholders in a chartered company, plenary or peculiar powers, or to clothe them with inf~llibility, they have exceeded their own authority, and the act of the agent that goes beyond h's letter of attorney is null and void. It must be shown by those who maintain the doctrine of "vested rights" that corporations mlay inflict injuries upon O 1644: CONSTITUTIOXAL CONVIENTION TUESDAY, threadbare, overstrained constructiods against the rightis of the people, as have pre-val'led in the minds of many politicians, and even in the minds of some courts to too great an extent, touching the rights claimed under these railroad charters. The time to act is here, a-ind now there should be no "goidg back" upon this question. We are framing a Constitution, and if we falter, if we show the least doubt in our action as to the power of the people of the State of Illinois, what can we expect from the General Assembly.9 ir. CHURCH. My.'"hairman: I desire to propose the following, as an amendment to this section four: MAY 3, 1870. D E the State shall be permitted to go, and I desire to go with the men who will go furthest in the direction of placing in the organic law of this State a provision re quiring the Legislature to so legislate as to curtail the exorbitant charges and de mands of railroad companies, which are eating out the substance of the people and making the corporators rich, proud and exacting. One of the greatest dangers to our re -public is the great and rapidly increas ing wealth, the great extension and the consolidation of railroad corporations and chartered monopolies. They have already, in some States, almost obtained control of the State government. The State of New Jersey is now derisively known as the "State of Camden and Amboy." The State of New York, once known as the great "Empire State," is held in the grasp of Cornelius Vanderbilt. I claim and maintain, and it is gener ally conceded by thoughtful men, that it is not for the best good of republican in stitutions, for the best interests of the country, that even individuals should pos ess inordinate wealth in a republican government; but whileit may be prejudi cial to the general good, and in conflict with our ideas of republican equality that there should be millionaires in the land, wealth is infinitely more to be feared when great corporations become million aires and continue, from generation to generation, to hoard up wealth. Republics are founded upon the idea of equality. While an individual may acquire millions upon millions, there is yet in nature a compensating circumstance. The richest man finally dies, his children squander his money, and thus the equilibrium is restored; but a corporation is a perpetual succession. It lives onl from generation to generation, only growing richer and prouder, and more exorbitant and more exacting. Suppose that Cornelius Vanderbilt, with his one hundred millions, could have a lease of life for the next century. He would be able to buy up and own in fee simple, the whole of the State of New York, and all the railroad corporations of the United States would come within his grasp, from the natural increase of wealth at the rate of ten per cent. per annum, compounded. But, sir, we must remember that the corporation is precisely in the position as an individual, except that it never dies, that it is a perpetual succession. Men grow old and die, but the corporation lives on. Look forward, one hundred or two hundred years into the future, and contemplate what will be the position of this country, if we recognize the principle in this Constitution that corporations have vested rights beyond the control of the Legislature and the people. The broad State of Illinois, in which we take such pride, will be owned, controlled and governed by the railroad corporations. i But gentlemen tell us that the remedy for these exorbitant charges is in competition. I maintain that that is no adequate remedy. If they will look at the Chicago papers they will see that there is a scheme on foot already to consolidate the Rock Island and Pacific and the great Northwestern railroad companies. The stockholders of the Rock Island company are said to own a controlling interest in, the Northwestern road. These are two oampeting lines extending from Chicago comraunities, and practice extortions that citizens may not. They must show that the Legislature has greater authority than the citizen, that the stream ma} rise higher than its fountain, that the Legislature is superior to its constituents, that the agent has more power than his principal. Where can the Legislature get its power but from the people? Have they more power to confer on, corporations than the citizen possesses? How is that possible? I deny it, and unless it is assumed and maintained here that the Legislature may confer governmental powers on corporations, as has been shown by the gentleman from McLean [Mr. Benjamin], this whole doctrine of vested rights, in the nature of special, peculiar, or extra power to do wrong and to commit extortion and abuses on the community, must fall to the ground and crumble to ashes. But we are referred to judicial decisionsthat courts have given in certain cases in past times. Suppose that, by reason of the dull light of the past, they did see justice dimly, and did attempt to confer upon chartered individuals more rights than the people possessed in their capacity of citizens-what of it? The superior light of this age of progress and analysis will reverse these erroneous decisions and we shall have decisions in consonance with the rights of the citizen and the good of the people, which is the higher law. A corporation really needs no more rights than the people have. No man holding stock in any company should expect or askwthat the community will confer on him more rights than the citizen naturally possesses. That would be a mon. strous doctrine, when we come to criticize and inspect it properly. The citizen, therefore, not having the right to commit trespass on the community, to forestall, monopolize or extort, the Legislature, which derives it power from the citizen, cannot confer upon chartered individuals authority to do those things which the citizen may not do. If the Legislature has exceeded its powers, if it has given peculiar privileges to chartered people, it is time to revoke them. I hold that it is right'and proper for this constitutional body in framing a fundamental law of the State, to lay down the doctrine and assert the broad principle that the Legislature shall not confer on chartered companies, powver which the people do not pretend to exercise. It is high time that this question was reviewed and the rights of the people protected. They have suffered long enough from this species of usurpation upon their rights, and this Convention can confer no greater boon on the people, and write no brighter page for its own -lame, than to assert these fundamental principles and inalienable rights of the people. Let it be declared in plain, palpable, vigorous English, that no body of nen, because they are chartered, have the right to do wrong or to practice fraud and extortion on she people, or that they can obtain any "vested rights" not co~mmon to the citizen, This is my view of the rights of corporations and of vested rights. Mr. PEIRCE. Mr. Chairman: I am one of those who believe that it is not only the right, but the duty of the Legislature to fix a maximum rate of tariff of iare and freights upon railroads, beyond which no corporation chartered by 42 31AY 33 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1645 to. Omaha. It will be but a few years before they will both be under one administration, and the rates of fare, instead of being cheapened by competition, will I)e assimilated and made to harmonize, defeating all competition. But gentlemen say, "We will prevent by legislation the consolidation of competing lines running parallel with each other." How can we possibly prevent, by any legislation, the stockholders of one company from buying stock in another I Even if the Legislature should prOTide that the president and directors of oneroad should not be the president and directors of another, we still could not prevent the stockholders of one acting in harmony with the stockholders of another in a particular line, from electing two sets of officers who will act in harmony with each other in fixing fares and freights, so that practically the roads would be consolidated-having a corresponding tariff of rates of fare. I believe there is no remedy to be obtained in competing lines. Competing lines will always work in harmony with each other. The real remedy is for the people, throu-h this Convention and the State Legislature, to assert their sovereignty and supremacy over all the creatures of the Legislature, and declare what the law shall be in this regard. People tell us that the courts have decided a"ain t us, and the Darmouth college case, and a pile of law reports as high as a man's head is brought forward. to prove'the assertion. Commencing with tl-lat case there is a uniform line of decisions that the Le-islature have no power to pass a law impairing the validity of a contract. It is within my recollection, sir, that decisions of the highest courts have been overruled and overturned by the uprising of the peopleby the ground swell of the masses. It is not long since it was the decision of the supreme court that no bridge could be built across a navigable river. But look now at the Ohio and Mississippi, and you will find that at different points they are spanned by maonificent structures. That decision has been reversed, because the demands of the people and the demands of commerce required it. There was once a decision of the highest court in this country, that 16 ()OSTITUTIOAL ()ONvETiO TixESDAY because there is no law protecting the people of the town in that regard. Look all over this State and we find the people of Illinois are being discriminated against in this particular; that the people of Iowa, Wisconsin, Kansas and Nebraska, are having their freight shipped from Chicago, and from their homes to Chicago, more cheaply than are the people of Illinois, per mile, for the same service. It is in the province of the Legislature, and their duty to prevent any discrimination against the interests of the people of the State. Railroad corporations centering in Chicago, touching the Mississippi river at all points, from C airo to Dunleith, running over the State, are protected by the laws of the State. They ask the defense of the courts; they would ask the defense of the military power of the State to protect them in their rights, if necessary. The laws of the State are carried on in part for their protection, and yet they continually and habitually and methodically discriminate against the people of this State, and in favor of the people of other States. Will gentlemen tell me that the people of this State have no right or power to seek redress in this regard? Why, sir, they will find that in all the States west of us and south of us the people of those States have their freights transported over our roads (passing over the lands which have been confiscated for the public good) at onehalf what is demanded of the people of this State for the same service and the same number of miles. Such injustice should not be tolerated by the people of the State of Illinois. It is the duty of this Convention to'assert this principle emphatically and distinctly in the organic law, so that the courts will have something to fall back upon, to render a new line of decisions in this particular. Mr. SNYDER. Mr. Chairman: I move that the committee do now proceed to take the vote. The motion was agreed to. The CHAIRMAN. The question is upon the adoption of the amendment of the gentleman from McHenry [Mr. Church] to the substitute of the gentleman from Fulton [Mlr. Ross]. The Clerk read the substitute offered by Mr. Ross, as follows: ment offered by the gentleman frosu Me - Henry [Mr. Church.] The Clerk will read t he transportautiotute a. amended. The Clerk read the substitute offeren by Mr. Ross, as amended by Mr. Churchas follows: The General Assembly shall, from tin-e ttime, pass laws establishing reasonable max — mum rates of charges for the transportation. of pssengers and freight on the different rail roads. in the State, and enforce such laws'D' adequate penalties, and may provide for - forfeiture of their property and franchises Railways heretofore constructed, or that mahereafter be constructed in this State, ar' hereby declared public highways, and shal be free to all persons for transportation t-. persons and property thereon, under sue.]regulations as may be prescribed by law. The CHAIRMAN. The Chair wil state that this is offered as a substitute f<, section four. The question is now upo the adoption of the substitute. Mr. PEIRCE. Mr. Chairman: Did nethe Clerk make a mistake in reading th: substitute offered by the gentleman from Fulton [Mr. Ross]? It provides for — maximum. The CHAIRMAN. The section ha; been somewhat modified. Mr. ROSS. Mr. Chairman: That - in it. Mr. TINCHER. Mr. Chairman: would like to make an inquiry of th. gentleman who offered this amendment. whether, under that, freights upon al roads are required to be the same? Mr. ROSS. Not necessarily, Mr Chairman. It may be left to the Legic lature. The CHAIRMAN. The question is oa the adoption of the substitute, as amend ed. - Mr. McCOY. Mr. Chairman: I askdivision of the question. The CHAIRMAN. It cannot be di vided, as the committee have just added the amendment by a vote. Mr. McCOY. Mr. Chairman: Is no! the question susceptible of division? The CHAIRMAN. The Chair has dc cided the question not to be divisible. ["Question," "Question."] Mr. TRUESDALE. Mr. Chairman Before a vote is taken, I should like t.: inquire of the gentleman from McElen ri [Mr. Church], what is his definition o the term "public highway?" Mr. CHURCH. Mr. Chairman. As;. is too late to enter into any discussio,~ of the matter to-night, I will read som. definitions, merely, from a lawr-book, s,: that the gentleman may see that there;' no danger at all. MVr. ATKINS. I rise to a point o order. The gentleman is out of order We are proceeding to take a vote under. an order of the committee. Mr. BUXTON. I move to reconside: the vote ordering the vote to be now taken. The CHAIRMAN. It is not in orde~ to move to reconsider in Committee o~ the Whole. Mr. HAINES, of Cook. Since the adoption of the ten minute rule, we havereconsidered questions in Committee oi the Whole. The CHAIRMAN. The Chair is aware that the Committee of the Whole have done that heretofore, and a great many other things that the Chair does not con sider in order. Since that time, an ap peal from the person occupying the chair was decided the other way by the The General Assembly shall, from time to time, pass laws establishing reasonable maximum rates and charges for the transportation of passengers and freight, on the different railroads in this State, and to enforce such laws by adequate penalties, and may provide for a forfeiture of their property and franchises. Also, the amendment offered by Mr. Church, as follows: Railways heretofore constructed or that may hereafter be constructed in this State, are hereby declared public highways, and shall be free to all persons for the transportation of person and property thereon, under such regulations as may be prescribed by law. The question being upon the amendment offered by Mr. Church, a division was ordered. The Convention divided, when, there being thirty-five in the affirmative and sixteen in the negative, the amendment was agreed to. The CHAIRMAN. The question is now upon the adoption of the substitute offered by the gentleman from Fulton [Mr. Ross], as amended by the amend dom and judgment of the gentleman, I can but regard that argument as an insult to the people of this State, whose land h a s been taken without their consent, and given away to private corporations on the plea of public benefit. On what ground have the railroad corporations taken any land on which to build their road? On the plea that they were to conduce to the public good, that they were to establish a great public benefit, confer a great blessing on all the people. Now, sir, that right can only be justified on that supposition. They have taken my land without my consent, although I had a warranty from the highest authority in the land. In ordinary transactions, it takes two to make a bargain, but the railway corporation comes, against my consent, and without my approval, and takes my property, because it is to be operated for the good of the public. But when the good of the public demands a restriction, that its rate of fare or freight be regulated, controlled, limited and restricted, we are told there is no monopoly here-that the wagon road still exists as before, and if the farmer does not like the fare, he can take the dirt road. It seems to me that that is an outrage on every man inl this State whose private property has been condemned for the public good. But, sir, as this has thrown me somewhat off the line of argument I designed to make, I will simply recur to it again by saying that, in my judgment, the decisions of the courts hereafter will vary from those we have had heretofore, upon this particular. I believe that the courts in this land have always heretofore shown a disposition to yield something to the general sentiment of the people, that there has been a disposition always manifested to acquiesce in the demands of the public, and tomold and modify precediDg decisions in accordance with the requirements of the public good. Now, sir, every gentleman will concede that the public good requires some restrictions and limitations to be placed on the railroads, in regard to their rates of fare. They are now simply exorbitant. There is no branch of business in the State paying half the per cent. paid by the wealthy, rich and purse-proud railroad corporations. Look at the rates of, fare they are charging on these roads, and the inconsistency they show. A gentleman told me not long ago, in Kankakee, that in Chicago he purchased a case of a certain class of goods, and in enldeavoring to ascertain the price of freight from Chicago to Kankakee, learned he could ship them from C)hicago to New Orleans cheaper than from Chicago to Kanlkakee. I have bean told in this city a man purchasing lumber in Chicago can get it shipped from Chicago to St. Louis, and back again from St. Louis here, cheaper than he can get it shipped from Chicago direct to Springfield. I mention this to show the inequality in respect to rates of fare. The rates charged from Chicago to St. Louis are the' rates the road can afford to transport thee article for, the rates which are remunerative to them, and which amply reward them for the outlay of labor and employment of maen and material;a but the rates they charge from Chicago to Springfield are the rates they are permitted to charge on account) of the wait of competitio>n 164-6 CONSTITUTIONAL CON'VENTION TijESDAY AY 3, 1870. DEBATES AD PROCEEDINGS. 1647 committee, and as' the Chafr regards, was the table from the Committee on Miscel- which was introduced by the gentleman the table from the Committee on Miscellaneous Corporations, which embodies substantially the same principle, and applies it to all other corporations. I hope inasmuch as this is a section of the special report of the Railroad Committee, we will preserve our consistency and adopt this amendment. I renew the motion made by the gentleman from Lake [Mr. Haines], that we preceed to take a vote. The motion was agreed to. The CHAIRMAN. The question is first upon striking out the words "or other," in the first line. The amendment offered by Mr. Hayes was agreed to. The CHAIRMAN. The question is upon the adoption of section five, as amended. Section five, as amended, was agreed which was introduced by the gentleman from Peoria [Mr. Wells], and is made the special order with the rai lro ad re port. I move it now be taken up. The CHAIRMAN. The Clerk will read the section offered by the gentleman from Peoria [Mr. Wells]. The Clerk retd the additional section offered by Mr. Wells, as follows: The right heretofore granted, or that may hereafter be granted to any railroad company to impose tolls for the transportation of freight or passengers, shall be construed to mean the right to impose reasonable tolls only; and shall never be construed to confer the right to impose unreasonable or extortionate tolls. Laws may be passed to enable any railroad company to ascertain, through the aid of the courts, what are reasonable tolls. The section offered by Mr. Wells was not agreed to. Mr. HAYES. Mr. Chairman: There is another section referred to the committee that can be disposed of in a moment. It was in the same position as the section just acted upon. The Clerk read the additional section offered by Mr. Hayes, as follows: No public officer in this State Shall have or receive any free pass or gratuity of any railroad company. Upon acceptance by him of such free pass or gratuity, his office shall immediately become vacant. Mr. ALLEN, of Crawford. Mr. Chairman~ I move to amend that by adding the following: Nor shall he dine with a railroad officer, nor accept the courtesies which one gentleman is accustomed to accept from another. committe e, and as t he Chair regards, was decided rightly. Mr. ANTHONY. Mr. Chairman: In orde r that the gentlem an may read the definitio n of a pu blic highway, I hope the gentleman will withdraw his motion. [Laugh t er]. ["Question!" "Question!"] The question being on the adoption of the substitute. offered by Mr. Ross, as amended by Mr. Church A division was ordered. The committee divided, when, there being thirty-seven in the affirmative and seventeen in the negative, the substitute, as amended, was agreed to. The CHAIRMAN. The question is on the adoption of section five, and the Secretary will read the section. The Secretary read section five, as follows: SEC. b. No railroad or other corporation shall issue any stock, bonds, or other evidences of indebtedness, except for money, labor or property actually received and applied to the purposes for which such corporation was created; and all stock dividends and other fictitious increase of the capital stock, or indebtedness of any Euch corporation shall be void. Mr. HAINES, of Lake. I move that we proceed to vote on that-section. Mr. HAYES. I ask the gentleman to withdraw his motion for a moment. iMr. HAINES, of Lake. I withdraw it. Mr. HAYES. Mr. Chairman: The phraseology of this section needs change, as pointed out by the gentleman from Lake [Mr. Raines], in reference to the first section. I move to strike out the words "or other" in line first. It is a little doubtful whether in this shape this section might not be held to authorize the creation of banking corporations ad libitum. It provides that to. The CHAIRMAN. The question is upon the adoption of section six. The, Clerk will read. The Clerk read section six, as follows: SE.c. 6. No contract, obligation or liability whatever of the Illinois Central Railroad Company to pay any sums of money into the State treasury, nor any lien of the State upon, or right to tax the property of said company in accordance with the provisions of the charter of said company, approved February 10, 1851, shall ever be released, suspended, modified, altered, remitted, or in any way diminished or impaired, by legislative or other authority; and all moneys derived from said company, after the payment of the State debt, shall be appropriated and set apart for the payment of the ordinary expenses of the State government, and for no other parpose whatever. Mr. FORMAN. Mr. Chairman: Inasmuch as we have transferred section six to the revenue article, I move that it be stricken out. Mr. TURNER. Mr. Chairman: I hope the motion to strike out will not prevail. I shall move, if it does not prevail, to strike out all after the word "authority," in the sixth line, and that will leave the section in so plain and simplea form that all will understand it, and if we adopt it it will be a very important section. If the section fails, which we have agreed to submit to a separate vote, we shall at least, have secured the Illinois Central railroad fund beyond all contintingeney. I will move sir, before the motion to strike out the section is put, to strike out all after the word "authority," in the sixth line. We are entitled, I believe, to have the section amended before the vote is taken on striking out. Mr. ALLEN, of Crawford. Mr. Chairman: I rise to a point of order. It is not in order for the gentleman to move to amend a portion of the section while a motion is pending to strike out the entire section. If the committee should strike out the entire section, of course it would pass to the Convention, inasmuch as the section was passed upon yesterday, and finally settled. The CHAIRMAN. The point of order is well taken. The question is upon striking out the sixth section. A division was ordered. The committee divided, when, there being twenty-six in the affirmative and seventeen in the negative, the metion of Mr. Forman to strike out section six was agreed to. - oMr. BUXTON. There is a section here No railroad or other corporation shall issue any stock, bonds, or other evidences of indebtedness, except for money, labor or property actually received and applied to the purposes for which such corporation was created. How far they may go in authorizing the issue of evidences of indebtedness, is not specified. I think, as the article was designed to refer to railroad corporations, we had better strike out those words "or other," and I make that motion. Mr. BUXTON. Mr. Chairman: It is true that this section embraces other corporations besides railroads, but I presume it will not be denied that it is perfectly proper to prohibit other corporations from issuing spurious stock, and I do not see why they should not be guarded just as much, and subjected to the same regulations as railroad corporations. The section provides that No railroad or other corporation shall issue any stock, bonds, or other evidences of indebtedness, except for money, labor or property actually received and applied to the purposes for which such corporation was createdand I cannot imagine any case, unless for the purpose of speculation or for some dishonest purpose, where fictitious stock should be issued by any corporation whatever. I hope that the amendment will not be made. Mr. ELDREDGE. Mr. Chairman: I hope the amendment will prevail. I desire to state to the gentleman from Clinton [Mr. Buxton] and to the committee, that there is another report lyiag on MAY 3) 1870, DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1647 The CHAIRMAN. The question is upon th adoption of the section. A division was ordered. The conamittee divided, when, there being seventeen in the affirmative and thirty-four in the negative, the section was not agreed to. Mr. ANTHONY. Mr. Chairman: I desire to introduce the following additional section: The capital stock of no railroad corporatio.n shall be increased for ny purpose except upon thirty days' no'tice, in such manner as may be provided by law. My object in introducing this section is to prevent railroad corporations in this State, so far as we can, from increasing their capital stock, whenever the board of directors may determine to do so, with. out any notice whatever to the public. Thirty years ago there was not a moneyed'corporation in this country that had a capital stock exceedidg $9,000,000. In many instances now on record in this country, the capital stock of railroad companies has been increased, for gainblidg and speculating purposes, to almost twice that amount in a single day. In the year 1868, Commodore Vanderbilt, being then President of the Hudson River railroad company and the New York Central railroad company, increased the capital stock of those, companies in one night, eighty-four per cent. When the consolidation took place between the Chicago and Northwestern, and the old Galena Union railroad company, the capit,al stock was increased between six and seven millions at a single sitting. A few years ago when a corner was formed in the city of New York, the President of the Michigan Southern and Northern Indiada Ilailroad company, in order to break it, issued in one night several milI'lons of stock. The Chicago and Rock island, or Pacifle railroad compau 1,y have, 1648 ()'OSTITUTIOAL ()OYETIO WEDNESDAY, order to earn dividends, to be paid on watered capital. There should be some restraint on these roads, not only for the protection of stockholders, but for the public protection. Every increase of the capital is felt throughout the country. I move, therefore, the adoption of the section: The capital stock of no railroad corporation shall be increased for any purpose except upon giving thirty days' notice, in such manner as may be provided by law. Mr. MERRIAM. I move to amend by inserting "sixty" instead of "thirty." Mr. ANTHONY. I accept the amend ment. The additional section offered by Mr. Anthony, as amended, was agreed to. Mr. WHITING. I now offer the following additional section. The Clerk read the additional section offered by Mr. Whiting, as follows: There shall be appointed by the Governor, by and with the advice and consent of the senate, three discreet persons, who shall constitute a board of railroad and warehouse commissioners, who shall have power to hear all complaints of whatsoever kind, as to the running of trains, rates of transportation, and receipt andidelivery of freights by railroad and other transportation companies in this State; and, also, all complaints as to the receiving, storage and delivery of freight in warehouses and elevators; and such other powers as may be conferred on them by law, and whose duty it shall be to see that the laws and regulations of the State on these matters are enforced, and who shall, from time to time, recommend such additional laws as to them may seem required to protect the public against oppression, fraud or extortion by transportation companies and warehousemen. The offices hereby created shall continue in force until the year 1875, and may thereafter be revived whenever the General Assembly shall so determine. MIr. WHITING. I will only say in advocacy of this, that we are deciding some very radical measures in reference to railroads and warehouses. It is evident to all that they must fall very far short of our anticipations, unless we provide some means by which they can be enforced. I would further say that a provision of this kind is necessary, even if we were to fall back on the present Constitution and laws of the State. It is an absolute necessity that there should be public officers charged with the duty of inves tigating these outrages and wrongs, and reporting themn to the proper authorities t-to seeing the laws properly enforced. s Mr. ALLEN, of Crawford. I would suggest to the gentleman that he amend his motion, by adding that the railroad companies pay the salaries. [Laughter]. Mr. WHITING. I accept the amendment. [Laughter.] Mr. HAYES. I hope the language will be voted down as now amended. Mr. WHITING. I suppose the amendment was not offered in good faith. [Laughter]. A division was ordered. The committee divided, when, there being sixteen inl the affirmativev and twenty-nine in the negative, the additional section offered by Mr. Whiting was not agreed to. Mr. CHURCH. Mr. Chairman: I desire to offer three.additional sections, which gentlemen may perhaps desire to discuss, with reference to their bearing as independent propositions, and also with reference to the other sections that have been adopted. I ask for their reading. The Clerk read the three additional sections offered by Mr. Church, as follows: The exercise of the power and right of em. inent domain shall never be so construed or abridged as to prevent the taking, by the General Assembly, of the property and franchises of incorporated companies already organized, and subjecting them to the public necessity, the same as of individuals. The right of trial by jury shall be held inviolate in all trials of issues or claims for compensation, when in the exercise of the said right of eminent domain, any incorporated company shall be interested either for or against the exercise of sai d right. The jurisdiction of the courts and trial by jury shall not be denied in any case where any citizen or number of citizens of this State, shall assert the right for themselves and the public, to enjoy uses and accommodations in and by said incorporated companies as a consideration for their chartered privileges to an extent and on terms denied by said companies. Mr. HILDRUP. Mr. Chairman: I have some remarks I wish to offer on this question, but it is late now. I would suggest that the committee now rise. [" Hear you now." "No," "no."] Mr. BENJAMIN. Mr. Chairman: I move that the committee do now rise, report progress, and ask leave to sit again to-morrow morning, at half-past nine o'clock. Mr. CHURCH. Mr. Chairman: Let there be an understanding that the gentleman from Boone [Mr. Hildrup] has the floor. ["Certainly."] The CHAIRMAN. The question is on the motion of the gentleman from McLean [Mr. Benjamin]. The motion of Mr. Benjamin, that the committee rise, report progress, and ask leave to sit to-morrow morning at halfpast nine, was agreed to. ADJOUITNMENT. within the last two years, increased their capital stock, without any legal notice to th e s tockho lders or to the public, to the amount, at one time, of about two mill ion s of dollars. I know of no one thing in the his.ory of railroads which is so deleterious to the public as that. It unsettles everything. It is demoralizing, and often disgraceful. I wish to explain for a moment where the evils come into the community, by the increase of the capital stock. The managers care nothing about the public, but in order to keep up the stock, they raise the price of freights, in order to declare dividends upon their watered stock. It is a fact well known that the moment these managers, who care nothing for the public, get control of a railroad and its earnings, they use them for the purpose of making money, and stock-gambling: freights are increased largely, by which they seek-to make their watered stock pay dividends arid keep it up in the market, and the injury to the public is very great. In the case of the Chicago and Northwestern railroad, a consolidation took place in June, 1864. They increased the freights on that railroad, in many instances, thirty per cent. Since this report was made-and I say it as a matter of explanation of my bringing in this section —I have investigated this matter, and I am satisfied it is a restriction on these railroad companies, which ought to be made. Section five does not meet the point at all, and, therefore it is that I introduce this additional section. It is designed to prevent railroads from watering stock and increasing the capital, without giving public notice. Let us refer for a moment how the capital stock of railroads has been increased in this country by watering, by consolidation, and by adding short lines to original roads. The Baltimore and Ohio railroad, in 1862, represented a capital of $31,000,000; now it represents $85,000,000. The Pennsylvania railroad, in 1861, represented a capital of $34,274,559; now it represents about $160,000,000. The Erie railroad company has watered its stock until it represents, with debts, about $200,000,000. In 1868, Commodore Vanderbilt increased the capital stock of the New York Central about eighty-four per cent, and this, too, in the f:~ce of repeated sworn statements, on the part of the directors, that it could Aot earn six per cent. on the existing capital. In 1862, the New York Central and Itarlem returned their stock at $52,370,431; I find that in 1868 it returned at $61,914,928. The F ort Wayne leased a read a fesw years ago, and on that pretense increased its capital stock from $il,500,000 to $19,550,000. In 1867, a report on watering stocks was made by a leading financiall paper} on twenty-eight roads, and during twentytwo months they increased their capitalstock from $287,000,000 to $400,684, Corporations are necessarily selfish. They have their own ends to gain. Public questions and practical and moral discussionls are nothing to them. Thley look simply to the results which their own interests demand. They study to see how much of a burden the public will bear, and how high charges they make ill PRATERP Prayer wvas offered by the Rev. Dr. Bergen, of Springfield, as follows: Almighty Father, in whom we live an d move and have our being. Thou makest the outgoings of the morning and evening to rejoice together. For the slumber, refreshment and invigoration of another night we thank Thee, for the ight ofth hois beautiful morning, for the beautiful season Thou givest us, emblems of awakening from death to life, emblems of the glorious resurrection from death and the grave. And we adore Thee as God, our God, our fathers' God, covenant keeping God, God of Thy Zion, God of our nation. We thank Thee for all that is past, all Thy goodness ad mercy, and we pray Thee that Thou wilt overrule all events that are past and to come to Thy glory, and we believe that Thou wilt. We pray Thee that Thou wilt bless us today, make us each a blessing in our station, in our meditations, in the words of our lios, in the measures and purposes we are called to. O give to this assembly that wisdom which is the principal thing, that is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, easy to be entreated, full of good fruits, without partiality and without hypocrisy, and may Thy covenant blessing O God, rest on our rulers in every department and the whole #arth be filled i i 164:8 (,'ONSTITUTIONAL CONVE-NTION WED11TESDAY, Mr.. MERRIAM. Mr. President: I move the Convention do now adjourn. The motion was agreed to. So the Convention (at five o'clock and forty-seven minutes) adjourned. EIG-U-TY-SEVENTJT DAY. WFDNESDAY, 3lay 4,1870. The Convention met at nine o'clock A. m., and was called to order by the President. MAY- 4,17.DBTS- R~~EIG.14 with th nde knowledge and glory of Thy name. Keep us and be our everlasting portion through Jesus Christ, our Redeemer. AmHen. READING OF THE JOURNAL. The Secretary proceeded to read the journal of the last day's proceedings, when Mr. CROSS. Mr. President: I move that the further reading of the journal be dispensed with. The motion was agreed to. ARTICLE-. SEC. 1. The Illinois and Michigan canal shall never be sold,nor shell it be leased until the proposition for the lease thereof shall first have been submitted to a vote of the people of the State at a general election, and have been approved by a majority of all the votes polled at such election. The General Assembly shall never loan the credit of the State, nor make appropriations from the treasury thereof, in aid of railroads or canals: Provided, the General Assembly may loan the faith of the State for the purpose of enlarging or extending the canal, a sum of money, the interest of which shall not exceed the net revenues of the canal and improved rivers. d The motion of Mr. Whiting, that the report be laid on the table and ordered printed, was agreed to. REPORT OF COMMITTEE ON ACCOUNTS. Mr. MOORE. Mr. President: The Committee on Accounts and Expenditures, having had under consideration various resolutions, have instructed me to make the following report PAY OF CHAPLAINS. The Committee on Accounts and Expenditures of this Convention, to whom was referred by this Convention a resolution in regard to the pay of the clergymen of this city who have officiated as chaplains for this Convention, would respectfully report that they have had the same under consideration and make the following report: That previous to the recess of this Conven tion, and at the time they caused the record to be inspected, twenty-two clergymen had officiated as chaplains for this Convention, that this committee presume that the number will be increased during the session to thirty, and they recommend that the several clergymen that shall act as such chaplains for this Convention during its session, each receive the sum of twenty dollars to be allowed and paid on the certificate of the President of this Convention. PAY OF JANITORS. Your committee would further recommend that A. H. Erickson, Richard White, Walter Bird, and J. S. Cloud, extra janitors, who assisted in getting up wood, &c., in the State house, be allowed the sum of three dollars per day from the commencement of their work and labor for this Convention up to the 17th of March, inclusive, to be allowed and paid in same manner. FEXPENSES OF CONVENTION. This committee would further report that previous to April 12, 1870, there has been paid out of the State treasury, on the expenses of this Convention, the sum of $90,337.22. Of this sum $87,579.44 has been charged to Convention, and the sum of $2,757.78 to incidental expense account, and that with all the care and economy that the Convention and this commmittee can fairly recommend, the total expenditures will reach, they fear, at least $150,000.' X Mr. BUXTON. Mr. President: I a morve to lay the resolution on the table. Mr. HAINES, of Lake. I call for the yeas and nays. Mr. TURNER. Mr. President: I would inquire if there has been any ac. tion upon any subject of that kind in the Convention? The PRESIDENT. The journals of the Convention disclose no such action. Mr. ROSS. Mr. President: I rise to a point of order. This resolution cannot be in order if this subject is not before us, and has not been before us at all. The PRESIDENT. The point of order is well taken. BLOOMINGTON, ILL., May 2, 1870. RON. CHAS. HITCHCOCK, President Constitutional Convention: SIR:-I have received a copy of the resolution of the Convention adopted April 21, 1870. From a careful examination of my books I find the following statement to contain all the orders issued in favor of Newton Bateman on the treasurer of the State board of education, and all moneys paid to him by said treasurer for any and all purposes whatever. For his necessary traveling expenses, for attendance on the meetings of said board, as provided by the third section of the act of Deb. 18, 1857, entitled, "An act for the establishment and maintenance of a Normal university," as follows: For the year 1862, two orders......... $10 50 " 1862, 10 00 " 1863, one order.... 13 00 " 1865, " " 10 00 "1866; two orders:........ 16 50 " 1866, 17 00 " 1868, two orders......... 13 00 " 1868, 1; 50 " 1569, two orders.......... 11 00 " " 1869, 11 00 Total on eleven orders............ $132 50 In addition to the above there were three orders in 1869, viz: For reimbursement for amount paid H. W. ltokker, for binding proceed ings of board....................... $ 6 75 For amount advanced Major J. W. Powell, on his order, in part payment of his salary......................... 260 00 For amount as per order of N. C. Na son, in payment of printing board proceedings....................... 44 60 Respectfully submitted, CHAS. W. HOLDER, Treasurer State Board of Education. The communication was laid on the table. JANITOR. Your committee would further recommend that John Jackson, colored janitor, be allowed one dollar per day during the session, in addition to his regular allowance from the State. All of which is respectfully submitted. Mr. MOORE. Mr. President: I ask that the Convention concur in the report. The report was agreed to. RESOLUTIONS, ETC. The PRESIDENT. Resolutions and propositions are in order. IMMIGRATION OF COLORED PERSONS. Mr. HAINES, of Lake. Mr. Presi dent; I introduce the following resolution: Resolved, That the Committee on Revision and Adjustment be, and they are hereby instructed to omit article fourteen of the present Constitution, which prohibits the immigration of persons of color. ~RE,PORT. OF COMMITTEE ON CANALvAND CANAL LANDS. Mr. WHITING. Mr. President: The Committee on Canal and Canal Lands, to whom were referred the resolutions of the board of trade of Chicago, the board of trade of Peoria, and the'farmer's convention of Bloomington, all asking for certain modifications of the canal article, and all in substance agreeing in asking for the same, have had the same under consideration. The committee were not all united in recommending anything specific for the action of the Convention, but they all agree in authorizing me to report this for the consideration of the Convention. I will ask that it lie on the table, that 200 copies of it be printed, and that, for convenience of comparison, the former canal article be printed with it. 413 DEB&TES AND PROCEEDINGS. MAY 4, 1870. 1649 The Secretary read the report, as follow&: SLJPERINTENDENT OF PUBLIC INSTR-UC TION. The PRESIDENT. The Chair will present a communication to the Convention, in response tc a resolution heretofore adopted, from Charles W. Holder, Treasurer of the State Board of Education. The Secretary read the communication, as follows: COST OF REPORTING AND PRINTING. Mr. PARKS offered the following res.olutioin, which was read by the Secretary and agreed to: Besolved, That the Committee on Accounts and Expenditures be instructed to report at its earliest convenience, to this Convention, the amount that its reporting and printing will cort the State. SINE DIE ADJOURNMENT. Mr. HAINES, of Lake. Mr. President: I wish to offer the following resolution.. Resolved, That this Conyerition will adjourn .sine die, on Monday, the ninth instant, at twelve o'clock, noon. Mr. HAYES. Mr. President: I believe we may as well pass a resolution fixidg the day of adjournment now, as well as any other time. I am sure this Convention can adjourn on fortv-ei-aht hours notice. We have got through with all the important business before the Convention with the exception of one or two short Propositions, which will be gone through with probably within forty-eight hours. If we fix next Monday as the day of adjournment, the Committee on Revision and Adjustment will burry up their business, and we will be ready to adjourn bv Monday. If we do not fix the day, we cannot tell how many new Propositions will be brought into this Convention, and create debate which may last for days. 'fhe resolution can be reconsidered, if absolute necessity requires it. Mr. WAIT. Mr. President: I move the resolution be referred to the Committee on Schedule. The motion was agreed to. O]EtD]R OF BUFINESS. Mr. SNYDER. I move the Convention now resolve itself into Committee of the Whole, for the consideration of the report of the Committee on Railroads. Mr. McCOY. May I ask one question with regard to a reference that was made to the Committee of the Whole? Oa yesterday, the fOllOW.Dg subjects were referred to the Committee of the Whole: the report on miscellaneous corporations, made on the 29th of Januarythe report of the Committee on Miscel. laneous Corporations on Warehoi)ses- the report on railroads aiid that on eminent domain. Those four propositions were referred, but have been so broken in upon that it occurs to me, and I would ask whether there subjects are still pending before the Committee of the Whole. If not, I desire that the report of the Committee on Miscellaneous Corporat'ionsl reported onthe 29th of January, be taken into consideration by the Com f 1650 COIT TIONAL COENTIO W EI)NliDAY company shall be interested either for or against the exercise of said right. The jurisdiction of the courts and trial by jurvy shall not be denied in any case where any citizen, or number of citizens, of this State shall assert the right for themit-lves and the public, to enjoy uses and accommodations in and by said incorporated companies, as a con sideration for these chartered privileges, to an extent and on terms denied by said conm panies. The CHAIRMAN. Unless objection be made, the article will be taken uip sec tion by section. Mr. HIlLDRUP. Mi. Chairman: I de sire to make a few remarks in regard to these sections now udtder consideration. Occasionally it beclmes a public duty for every man to express his views upon questions presenting themselves to the public, wherein all citizens are commonly interested. I have reflected considerably upon this principle, called the right of "eminent domain." I have satisfied myself that such a power exists, antd that within the reach and the scope of that power may he found a remedy against the usurpa tions and the aggressions of these rail road corporations. I did think for a few days past, that, though I had given con siderable attention to the authorities, and had thought much on this subject, I would say nothing upon the subject, as it was clear to my mind, and seemed to be equally so to the minds of others; but out of the debate of yesterday sprung up a new idea to me. It seems to me as if this is still a mooted question. It seems to not be well settled in the minds of members of this Convention, that the power does exist, and that by the exercise of that power can be fouiid the remedy that the people have loig sought for against these railroad corporations. I therefore propose to discuss it, in my humble way, for a short time, givinig my view{, of course, for what they are worth, urging themn upon no man, unless they bear the impress of truth, and are acceptable, for the purpose of promoting the cause of truth and the defense of the people. I believe that the principle involved in the first section of this report is the most important that can come before this Convention, fi r its consideration, and, I cannot let this opportunity pass by without adding my humble opiniun to the weight of resistance against the encroachments of this terrific modern despotism. I would like to see this vexed question as to the respective rights of railway companies and the people of the State determined in this Constitution. I would like to see the linle of demarcation between the peculiar privileges of these great cor porations under their charters, and the rights of the people and the powers of the State, so clearly and broadly defined that there can be no more uncertainly in the future, either in regard to the scope and extent of the franchise of these rail road corporations as granted by the State, or in respect to the right or authority of the State to modify, change and extinguish their charters, resume their franchises and take their property, whenever the public g,iod demands it. I am not uniriendlily disposed to the great railroad interests of the country. I think I know too well the importane a of these vast agencies of commerce to be hostile to them. I know that. through their instrumentality the material inter mittee of the Whole, in connection with the propositions pending before it. As that seems to be nea rl y all the work that now remai ns in Commit te e of the Whole, if it is not pending, I move that it be r ferred. The PRESIDENT. The report of the Comniittee onI Miscellaneous Corporationis was not committed to the Co)mmittee of the Whofle by the action of the Conven tion yesterday, but only so much of that report as related to: warehouses. The Chair cannot entertain the proposition of the gentleman from Whiteside [Mr. M~cCoy]. The motion of the gentleman from St. Clair [Mr. Snyder] is already pending, unless the latter be withdrawn. Mr. McCOY. Mr. President: Iwould respectfully ask the gentleman from St. Clair [dVr Snyder] to withdraw his motion for a moment. IMr. SNYDER. I will do so, Mr. Presi deut, if the gentleman from Whiteside [Mr. McCoy], will certainly renew it. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the m-,tion of the gentleman from Whiteside [Mr. McCoy], that the report of the Committee on Miscellaneous Cor-, porationus be referred to the Committee of the Whole, to be taken into con;sideration together with the pendi~,g subject. Mr. CARY. Mr. President: I hope that matter will not be referred at the present time. I would like to have an opportunity of looking at the report. I would rather we should get through with business now pending, and examine the report of the Committee on Miscellaneous Corporations afterwards. Mr. HAINES, of Cook. What is the report? Mr, MCCOY. It relates to various corporations. The question being on the motio, of Mr. McCoy-that the report of the Committee on Miscellaneous Corporations be referred to the Committee of the Whole, to be considered in connection with the pending question, A division was ordered. The Convention divided, when, the re being twenty in the affirmative and four teen in the negative, the motion was agreed to. Mr. MoCOY. Mr. President: I renew the mention of the gentleman from St. Clair L[Mr. Snyder] that the Convention} resolve itself into Comlrnittee of the Whole, to consider the subjects referred to) the committee yesterday and this mor~ing. The motion was agreed to. REPORT OF TEIE COMMITTEE ON RAIL ests and wealth of the country have been developed to a mo)st marvellous degree, a~,d that the benefits conferred upon the people of the State by railroads, as a means of transportation, both of person and property, to and from the great busi ness centres and sections of the country, can only be measured by the growth and progress of the State for the tast quarter of a cenJtury. I amn fully satisfied that if the great net work of railroads that cov ers the face of Illinois were removed, it would so cripple all isdividual interests and enterprises, it would so derange the investment of capital, it would so paral. ize all the industrial energies of the St,te, that the ultimate result would be financial ruin. Atod therefore I say that neither I nor an.y man can aff,)rd t,a be hostile to the grteat railroad interests of the S ate and country, so long as they are regulated bv wholesome anjd proper laws, and do not infringe on the rights of the people. .Now, sir, when railroad corporations are operated within their legitimate pro-v iace and properly regulated by law and the necessities of commerce, when oper ated as common carriers following in the line of their duty, they are like the ser. vants of old, worthy of their hire. But we cannot aff, fd to let the servant be. come the master. Railroad corporations are simply common carriers, and as such are entitled to due protection of law in the use and exercise of their franchise, ia the possession and enjoyment of their property, and to receive reasonable com pensation for their services. But whenthey become extortionate i their rates of freigntland fare; when they violate their charters in any respect; w'hen they persist in eiiroachiig upon individual rights anid interests; when they fall to act im strict conformity to the terms and conditions of their charters; when they become oppres sive and burdensome upon individual and public interests; when they fkil to answer the purposes of their creation; whenever they become subversive of the public good, the State may, and should, by the exercise of its power of eminent domain, so modity the charters of such offeuding; railroad:ompanies, as to provide an adequate remedy against these abuses of power in the future, or, failing in this, the State should resume their charters, take their property and establish new lines of railway that will serve the public interests as faithfully as their ownx. [Here the hammer fel]. ["Glo on," "6G. on."] Mr. ~ILDRUP. 1Now, Mr. Chairman, I kn,ow it may be claimed by those who derEnd the interests of railway c~ompanies, (and I do not take any exct~ptioa to any gentleman upon this floor, (,r else, where, who, fisllowlng out what he c,,n. ceiwes to be his duty, or the line ot his interests, defends what he considers rhe rights and privileges of rail ways), that these positions are both untenabl)e and/ untrue. They will tell us fur in~stance, that the people have no remedy against the injuries of railways except through the courts. They will tell us that eve~ry individual may appeal to the courts and obtain his remedy. But they fail to tell us, that if any individual is so f)rttuate as to obtain a judgment, the railway} by advancing its freights and fares, will compel the people, along its line, to pay the judgment. it the company violates its charterL ROADS. So the Convention, as in Committee of the Whole (,Nr. Sedgwick in the chair), resumed the consideration of the report of the Committee o n Railroads, and the fillowing additional article reported from the majt,rity of the Judiciary Committee, through Mr. Church. The Secrctary read the additional article, as follows.: The exercise of the power and right of eminent domain shall never be so construed or abridged as to prevent the taking by the General Assembly, of the property and franchises of incorporated companies already organized, and subjecting them to the public necessity, the same as of individuals. The right of trial by jury shall be held inviolate in all trials of issues or claims for compenlsation, when in the exercise of the said right of eminent domain, any incorporated I CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION W.EDNIISDA-Y, 1650 MA 4,80 EAE N RCEIG.15 The doctrine of vested rights cuts a very important figure in this discussion. I do not hesitate to say that that doctrine, when construed as, to pit itself against the rights of thepeople, is the great legal lie of the age, under the shadow of which, as a pretended right, these railway corp(nvention. Mr. WAGNER. I move that we now take a vote. The Clerkr read the additional section offered by Mr. H~ayes, as follows: All the provisions of law authorizing ally county, township, incorporated city or town, to receive any portion of the State taxes, over and above the amount of the assessment roll of the year 1868, for the payment of indebtedness created to aid in the construction of a railway or railways, or any portion of the State taxe:s for any purpose, shall extend to all the counties, townships, incorporated cities, and towns, within this State, for the payment of lheindebtedness thereof, created for the erection of school houses, the making of roads and highways, for drainage, or for ~any other public improvement, Thle CHAIRMAN. The question is o striking out the section. A division was ordered. The committee divided, when, there being thirty-one in the affirmative and seventeen in the negative, the motion to strike ouit was agreed to. ~Mr. WELLS. There is an amendment offered, and the question should be first; on that. MAY 4, 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1661 :62(O~TTOA )OV~1~WD~DY Resolved, That the Committee on Revision and Adjustment be instructed to strike from the article on election and right of suffrage, M section six. Mr. HAINES, of Lake. Mr. President: The gentleman from Will [Mr. Goodhue] called my attention to this section, and I discovered the difficulty to which he alludes. If this section were adopted, it would exclude women from holding the positions named. The obiect of the resolution is to strike out the section for that reason. Mr. CAMERON. Mr. President: I desire to state on behalf of the Committee on Suffrage, that the provision objected to by the gentleman from Will [Mr. Goodhue] was duly considered in c ommittee. It is substantially the provision in our present Constitution, the language being modified only in unimportant par ticulars. It w a s suggeste d i n the committee that so metimes appointments had been made in this State, and one recently of a for eigner, an alien, to an important position in our State affairs. The position might n ot be considered an office, and therefore the words "place of profit" were inserted It is substantially the provision of 1848, and I see no reason for taking it out. This simply provides that the qualifica tion of citizenship shall be possessed by ally one holding public office. It has wo.-ked well since 1848, and I do not think we ought to alter it now. I hope the report will s tand as reported by the committee and adop te d by the Convention. Mr. BUXTON. I see no reason why a woman should not hol d office, if people choose to elect her, as well as a m an. I believe wome n have been elect ed justices of the peace, and in many ca s es it is highly proper they should receive such appointmen t s as notaries public and oitio n, i ther positions, which the y are probably as well qualified to fill as men. Another objection to this section is, that it would probably apply so that a woman could not be appointed an ad ministratrix of an estate, or in any other position. I think it is a matter that should properly be left to the Legislature to determine. We have already, in various articles, provided the qualifications of persons eligible to the various offices, from Governor down all the State officers and all the judges-that they shall be citizens of the United States, and for a long number of years citizens of this State, and I think, beyond that, there is no necessity for anything in the Constitution. as it limits appointments to offices of notary public or justices of the peace, but it might deprive minors of taking clerkships in a position of trust. It might prevent a man from making a clerk of his wife, if that clerkship were a place of trust. It woul d deprive a man from holding, for the benefit of the public, a wtoll bridge, and deprive minors from f ill ing any position of clerkships. Mr. CARY. Would it not prevent the mother from being the guardian of her child? Mr. ALLEN, of Crawford. I am in. clined to think so, though the courts might construe it otherwise. The mother would be acting in a public capacity as trustee to manage and control its prop. erty for its benefit. Mr. DEMENT. Mr. President: I think the section is liable to the objec tions urged against it. For my own in dividual part, I would be in favor of the section as it now appears in our present Constitution. I would suggest to gentlemen whether, in conning the objections they have urged, it is best to strike out the section entirely or whether we might not reach the object desired by striking out after the word "office," the words "public po sition, place of trust, profit or emolument in this State," and let the remainder of the section remain. Mr. COOLBAUGH., Mr. President: I would inquire what would be the effect of striking out the section.. The effect, as I understand it, will be to leave no re striction nor qualification whatever. I know there should be some qualification fixed preventing aliens and persons not citizens from holding certain offices. I would suggest whether this thing cannot be remedied when it is reported back to the Convention by the committee, as I un derstand every article reported back by them is to be voted upon and receive the sanction of the Convention before be coming part of the Constitution. If the resolution be adopted, let the instructions be to strike out and insert whatever may be necessary. The PRESIDENT. The Chair is sot isfied the Convention will have no power to act upon the report of the Committee on Revision and Adjustment. Mr. COOLBAUGH. Mr. President: N~ot by general consent? The PRESIDENT. By general con sent, yes. Mr. COOLBAUIGH. Mr. President: Do I understand the Chair that the report of the Comnmittee on Revision and Adjustment upon this or any other article will not be required to be voted upon by the Convention? The PRESIDENT. The question upon the report of the Committee on Revision and Adjustment will simply bet "Shall the article be enrolled as a part of the Constitution"? The only question for the Convention will be a question of phraseology and arrangement. It will not be competent to change the meaning of a proposition, of course. However, it will be competent for the Convention at that time to recommit to th9 committee, with instructions to make ally section conform to the sense of the Convention, if the sense has been changed. The proper course to meet any substun. jtiml defect is by resolution of instructionl to the committee to strike out, or to strike out and insert. t The CHAIRMAN. The motion to strke out the section takes precedence. M r. WRIGHT. I move the committee rise, report progress and ask leave to sit again. T he mo tion was agreed to. ELIGIBILITY TO OFFICE. Mr. GOODHUE. I desire to offer the following resolution. The Secretary rea d the resolution offered by Mr. Goodhue, as follows: Resolved, That the Committee on Revision and Adjustment be instructed to strike from the a rt icl e on election and right of s uffrage, se ction six. MI r. GOODHUE. S ection sixn reads'as follows: SEc. 6. N o p e rson shall be elected'or appoi nted to any civil office, public position, or place of trust profit or emolument in this State, who is not an elector of this State. The reso lutio n sh ould have read "elections and right of suffrage." I have only one suggestion to make with reference to this section. I believe that there is scarcely a member upon this floor who is desirous of retaining this section six in the article mentioned. I have talked with a good many and they all say it escaped their notice, as it did mine. There certainly can be no disposition on the part of members upon this floor to treat certain classes any more unfairly and with less consideration than they have been treated under the old Constitution. The effect of this provision would be to exclude from office, from every position of trust, every place of influence or emolument, a certain class of persons in this State who ought not to be excluded. Its'would prevent the employment of men, not voters, who are still qualified for the performance of certain duties; it would exclude them from all subordinate State offices, and prevent their being employed in any capacity whatever in any State office. I desire simply to call the attention of the Convention to this section, and hope it will be stricken out. ADJOURNM~ET. Mr. WRIGHT. Mr. President: I move that the Convention do now adjourn. The motion was agreed to. So the Convention (at twelve o'clock and twenty-five minutes) adjourned. Mr. ALLEN, of Crawford. My attention has just been called to this subject, and I desire to call the attention of the Convention to the language of this section. It says that no person shall be elected or appointed to any civil office. That is one class of cases where none but electors are elegible. The section continues "public position or place of profit or emoluments." My fear is that a man could not keep a toll bridge, if there were emoluments connected with it (for the accommodation of the public) unless an elector, that he could not be placed in a place of trust, as a clerk to an officer, unless a voter. There are various positions from filling which persons would be precluded if a strict construction were i placed on this provision. Now, it is not obnoxious to me so far REPORT OF COMMITTEE ON REVISION AND ADJUSTMENT. Mr. McDOWELL offered the following resolution, which was read by the Secretaryand referred to the Committee on Rules: Resolved, That the report of the Committee on Revision and Adjustment be considered by sections in Convention; but that all debate be prohibited. CONSTITUTIONAL CON'VENTION WF,DNESD.&Y, . 1662 AFTER.NOON SESSION. WEDNP,SDAY, May 4,1870. TI-ie Convention met,"at two o'clock, . m., and was called to order by the President. ELIGIBILITY TO OFFICE.. The PRESIDENT. The first question in order is the disposition of unfinished business of the morning which is the resolution offered by the gentleman from Will [Mr. Goodhue]. The Secretar read the resolution offered by Air. Goodhue, as folws -AY 4, 1870. DEBATES AND PROOEEDINGS. 1663 I do not think there is any good reason for changing the rule in the Constitution of 1848, that no civil or military office shall be held by any person who is not a citizen of the United States, and a resident of this State, excluding only foreigners and non-residents, but permitting almost every person in the State, including poor and worthy females to hold appointments of a character not forbidden by other general provisions of the Constitution. I will, when in order, move to instruct the Committee on Revision and Adjustment, to report section seven of article six of the present Constitution, in lieu of this section. Mr. GOODHUE. I will, if in order, adopt that as part of my resolution-that the committee be instructed to strike out section six of this report, and insert section seven, article six, of the old Constitution. Mr. HAYES. That is entirely satisfactory to me. Mr. DEMENT. I will withdraw my amendment. The PRESIDENT. The question is on the adoption of the resolution offered by the gentleman from Will [Mr Goodhue', to strike out section six of the report of the Committee on Right of Suffrage, and instruct the Committee on Revision and Adjustment to insert in its place section seven of article six, of the present Constitution of Illinois. The Secretary read section seven of article six, of the present Constitution, as follows: SzEc. 7. No person shall be elected or appointed to any office in this State, civil or military, who is not a citizen of the United States, and who shall not have resided in this State one year next before the election or appointment. The resolution offered by Mr. Goodhue was agreed to. RAILROAD CORPORATIONS. Mr. BUXTON. Mr. President:I move that the Convention do now resolve itself into Committee of the Whole to further consider the special order. The motion was agreed to. So the Convention, as in Committee of the Whole (Mr. Sedgwick in the chair), resumed the consideration of the report of the Committee on Ra ilroad Corporations. eMr. WELLS. Mr. Chairman: I offer th e T yllowing additional section. The Clerk read the additional section offered by Mr. Wells, as follows: The right heretofore granted, or that may hereafter be granted, to any railroad company to impose tolls for the transportation of freight or passengers, shall be construed to mean the right to impose reasonable tolls only, and shall never be construed to confer the right to impose unreasonable or extortionate tolls. Laws shall be passed to enable any railroad company to ascertain, through the aid of the courts, what are reasonable tolls. s Mr. BUXTON. Mr. Chairman: I rise to a point of order. That section was acted upon yesterday and rejected, and I claim that it is out of order to offer it again. eMr. WELLS. Will the Chair be kind enough to state what the record is in respect to that? I was necessarily absent yesterday, and did not know that this matter had been acted upon. The CHAIRMAN The Chair is informed by the Clerk that it is a fact that that section was offered and rejected. Mr. WELLS. Then, sir, I offer the following as an additional section. The Clerk read the additional section offered by Mr. Wells, as follows: Laws shall be passed to enable any Trailroad company to ascertain, through the aid of the courts, what are reasonable tolls. Mr. WELLS. Mr. Chairman: I do not propose to take more tha n a mome nt to explai n why I offer th is. It seems the section as originally framed was acted on while I was absent. If I had known it, I should not have presented this in the shape which I did at first. Various sections have been adopted conferring upon the State the right of eminent domain, or fastening in the State the right of eminent domain, or granting to the State the right of condemning the franchises of corporations. Admitting, for the argument, that those are all necessary, all proper and not excessive, before those provisions can go into operation, much time must elapse —many years may possibly elapse. In the mean time, what shall be done? How shall the people be protected from the extortions, if such are practiced by railroad comp atnies? I can see no plainer, simpler, fairer way of ascertaining whether or not extortions, are practiced, than by leaving that to be determined by the courts of justice, and I believe there is no more direct, fair, honest or honorable way to remedy these evils, if they exist, than by providing that the Legislature shall make laws to enable railroad companies to ascertain what are reasonable fees by petition to the courts' If this be ascertained by order of court, it will be ascertained by a tribunal to which we have all been accustomed to submit our rights, to which all the people have looked to redress their wrongs. Mr. TINCHER. Mr. Chairman: I would like to ask the gentleman a question —if he is preparing a section here that will allow a railroad company to sue some private individual to see whether they have charged him enough or not? [Laughter.] Mr. WELLS. I do not see the pertinence of the question, Mr. Chairman, although I am glad to be able to say that it is very witty. Mr. BUXTON. Mr. Chairman: I would ask the gentleman if he sees the im~pertinence of the question? [Laughter]. Mr. HAYES. Mr. President: I do not believe t he obj ect which is sought to be acc omplished can be by either of th e motions which have been made. The section in the present Constitution of 1848, for whi ch th is section is a substitute, is very diff erent. By th at sec tion, no person can hold a military position under the State who is not a citizen, and who has not been a resident for tw el ve months. The section under consideration leaves out a part of that cond ition, but will permit any person to hold a military command under the State. That may be a dangerous permission. Mercenary troops may yet be used to put down the liberties of the people. The Convention of 1847, I repeat, adopted a provision that no one, not a citizen of the United States, and for twelvemonths a resident of the State, should hold a military command. Was it not a wise provision 2 Again, sir, that section in the, Constitution of 1848 was free from objections which apply to this provision. Section seven of article six, of the present Constitution, reads as follows: No person shall be elected or appointed to any office in this State, civil or military, who is not a citizen of the United States, and who shall not have resided in this State one year next before the election or appointment. The section under consideration forbids any one to hold an office who is not an elector of the State, while the existing Constitution says any person may do so who is a citizen of the United States, and has resided twelve months in the State. We are excluding a large class who have hitherto been permitted to hold appointments. We exclude minors, females-all persons who are not voters. An instance occurs to me as an illustration of the hardship of such a provision, which is familiar, doubtless, to many. Chief Justice Taney, in his life time, received much abuse, but now that he is dead, has the eulogiums of the profession and of the people everywhere, as one of the purest and best of men, as well as one of the ablest of lawyers. He relinquished a very renumerative practice to go upon the supreme bench. While he was on the supreme bench, he obtained no emoluments whatever, aside from his salary. His income scarcely sufficed for his ex penses, and at the time of his death he left several estimable daughters, without the means of support. Those daughters have made their living ever since the death of Judge Taney by writing in some of the departments at Washington, hold. lng minor clerkships there. I mention this to show the hardship that would result in a large class of cases, if such worthy ladies be prohibited from earning an honorable support by filling these minor clerkships. I hope we will not by a constitutional provision exclude out daughters, and son1s who are not electors, from employments of this kind. Mir. DEMENT. I would ask if we have not defined what is meant by an "office" in -this Constitution, and, if so, whether any of these appointments — clerkships in any of the offices in the State —can come under the appellation of "offices," according to that definition? Mir. HAYES. I believe we did adopt an extract from Webster's dictionary as part of the Constitution of Illinois, but I have not that definitionl so clearly in my mind just no0w, as to answer the gentleman. Mer. WELLS. I cer tainly d o, sir. The question arises here, if railroad companies charge more than is reasonable for carrying freight, pending the passage of the laws provided for in this Constitution, what remedy have the people for such trespass upon their rights during that time? It seems to me that the only remedy that they have is in the courts. The Legislature may protect them, but will they? This provision is that they -shall pass laws that the railroad companies may ascertain through the courts what are reasonable tolls. I do not know that that can be ascertained in any fairer or better way. The railroad companies now claim the right of fixing their rates without consulting any other interests than their own. Certainly individuals have not the right to fix them, and perhaps railroads have not. To what tribunal shall we go, other than the courts? This will make it obligatory upon the Legislature to pass laws by which the courts shall be guided in d Ver M.&T 4) 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1663 1661 ()1ONTITUTIOAL CONYENTIO WEDNEsDAY, the Legislature power to go on and mock the public by acts which can afford no remedy. The people do not want the right merely of ascertaining the matter at the end of a law suit. What sort of business would the Leg islature be engaged in, to enact a law by which railroad companies could come into'court hunting a defendant,or ex parte, and putting the disposing power of the State into the hands of judicial officers? Why, sir, there is, in all government, a disposing power, without which every thing else is nothing, and that belongs neither to the executive nor the judicial, but to the legislative authority, and; is wielded by the legislative a m, and by that alone. The fixing of the rights of tlie people, the declaring what shall be weasonable between the public and these conpotations who assume to serve the public, on behalf of the State, is an act of the disposing power of the State, as much as the act of declaring what taxes shall be levied in a State, and for what purpose. I am, therefore, completely astonished that the gentleman from Peoria [Mr. Wells] should imagine that a secti;on of this kind would accomplish anything in the world, or be anything but a mockery of the wants of the people. It is admitted on all sides, sir, that the railroad companies trample on the rights of the people, aud assume to themselves the right of fixis these rates. The Leg islature has not intervened. But, as was suggested by the gentleman lrom Me Henry [Mr. Church], the moment the Legislature does intervene, then the courts, whenever called upon, are to de c ide. They will be called upon to decide whether the lawmaking power has within its jurisdiction the fixing of these rates, or the directors of the corporation. The evil we complain of is not the want of law requiring reasonable rates, but that nothing is fixed. The reasonable rates are not ascertained beforehand. We want this done. The railroad assumes to do it. We deny their right. We say the State shall do it, but to set the State at work passing laws of this kind is to do away with the power by which the peo ple are to be protected. In short, it is a sort of abnegation of government to that gextent.a What better work would the railroad companies ask, than to draw such a secm tion as this, to put the people upon i this wild goose chase after redress, thana to have enacted by the Legislature, by which, if choosing to accept its privi leges, they may take the initiative, go into L court somewhere on an ex parte case, and n have a judge determine, as a question of right and wrong, questions of public polim cy, and what rights are to be allowed the ; people? It seems to me that it i s wholl y inconsistent with anything like remedy c or redress. Mr. SNYDER. Mr. Chairman: I move we proceed to a vote on this whole question. Mr. ROSS. Mr. Chairman: I hope the vote will be taken on the pending article as well as the amendment. L The CHAIRMAN. The question is on the motion that the vote shall be now itaken.' C The motion was agreed to. L The CHAIRMAN. The qu estion is on the adoption of the section proposed by the gentleman from Peoria [Mr. Wells]. mining the rights of rail road c omp anie s, pass laws by which the railroad compan ies may go into court, petitioning the court to establish a certain rate of tolls, and have those rates of tolls fixed, not by order of the board of directors of a rail road company, but by order of court. I believe it can be done, and I believe it is the fairest plan that can be adopted. Mr. CHURCH. Mr. Chairma l: I do not see any easier way to bring the ques tion before the cov,.rts, than for the Le islature to fix these tolls. The gentleman from Peoria [Mr. Wells] desires these quest ons to come before the courts. What will stand in the way of the question coming directly before the courts then? Questions may now come before the court, as the practice now is, which is for all companies in the State to flx their rates. They claim the right to do it, and that those rights are a finality. We deny that they have the right to do it, except, ) far as they do it properly and within reasone o 3 limits. Neverthe less, it may perhaps be claimed, that by reason of their having the right, under their charters, to'fix rates, these rates be comeiprima facie rates, at which price merchandise and persons should be con veyed. If the General Assembly proceed to fix the rates, which will control-the rates fixed by the General Assembly, or the rate3 fixed by the railroad cdrpora tion? This question, I believe is a perti nent one. Conceding all the gentleman claims concerning reasonable rates-that the railroad companies cannot fix rates un reasonably high; conceding what he may claim that the General Assembly cannot bind them bv fixing them unreason ably low —if the General Assembly do fix the rates, those rates, in my opinion, will become the governing rates, until, at least, the railroads bring them before the courts, and get adjudication against them as not being reasonable. This will afford all the remedy that the gentleman seeks to obtain by the amendment he offers. Courts are for the adjudication of any questions that may arise on this fix-Ing of rates as these roads now do; only the bur den of proof may be changed, as the rates then fixed by law will be considered the established rates until they are set aside by the courts, or by the Legislature, or some other power. Companies, of course, cannot do it, unless they are of more importance and higher authority than the law itself. The law cannot, of course, do anything that would destroy property; neither can the railroad companies do anything that would destroy the public use for which they are allowed to exist and enjoy their franchises. Then, sir, the most direct and proper manner to bring the question before the courts, is by another power that has not heretofore assumed to fix these ratesl proceeding to fix them, when the question may come before the courts to determine whether they have the right to fix the rates, and if they have the right, whether the rates they have fixedd are reasonable and fair. Mr. BROilWELL. Mr. Chairman: I am at a loss to see what the genlltem~an from Peoria [Mr. Wells] expects to accomplish by this section. To talk in the Constitution about "reasonable rates,"J is just to send the whole community into court in each particular case without an~y law at all. That is, in my opinion, giving The section was not agreed to. ORDER OF BUSINESS. The CHAIRMAN. The next business in order is the report of the Committee won Miscellaneous C orporations. Mr. BUXTON. I m ov e the committee rise, and report the article to the Conven tion. Mr. McCOY. I have the floor. Mr. ALLEN, of Crawford. There is n ow pending before the committee the report of the Committee on Railroad Cor porations. If that has been disposed of, it must be either reported back to the Convention when the committee rise, or be reported now. It may be laid aside, under the order of the committee. One thing or other must be done before the gentleman from Whileside [Mr. McCoy] can take up his proposition. The CHAIRMAN. The Chair under stood the action of the Convention this morning to be that these articles on corporations were to be considered to gether. Mr. I-AINES, of Lake. I understood the general consent was that it should be laid aside. Mr. SNYDER. I move it be laid aside and reported when the committee rises; otherwise the report is left open to amendment. The motion was agreed to. REPORT OF COMMITTEE ON MISCELLANE - OUS CORPORATIONS. [The following is the report of the Committee on Miscellaneous Corpora tions:] SECTION 1. The General Assembly may pass general laws, uniform in their opera tion, for the creation of corporations, but shall have no power to create any corporation by special act; and the General Assembly may also, by general laws, uniform in their opera tion, provide for renewing, extending and en larging existing charters, but shall pass no special act for any such purpose. SEC. 2. All laws passed pursuant to the foregoing section, may be by the General As sembly, from time to time, amended or re pealed. SEC. 3. The capital stock of corporations chartered by this State, shall not be increased in any way or for any purpose, except for cash actually paid into their treasury, or ex pended in the improvement of their property. All acts of incorporation heretofore passed, under which the corporators shall not organ ize and commence business pursuant to the acts of incorporation, within one year after the adoption of this Constitution, shall be null and void. Foreign corporations shall not transact business in this State without having at least one permanent office therein, to be designated by laww, where process can be served; nor until they shall have given such security as may be required by law, for the performance of their obligations incurred in this State, which security shall be at least equal to such obligations, nor until they shall have paid such taxes as may by law be imposed upon them. The term corporation as used in this article, ehall be construed to include all associations and joint-stock companies having any of the powers or privileges of corporations, not possessed by individuals and partnerships. All corporations shall have the right to sue, and shall be subect to be sued in all courts, the same as natural persons. Sac. 4. The General Assembly shall provide by law, that in all elections for directors or mtanagers of incorporated companies, every stockholder shall have the right to vote. in person or by proxy, for the number of shares of stock owned by him, for as many persons ~as there are directors or managers to be elected, or to cumulate said shares and give one candidate as many votes as the number of directors multiplied by the number of his sharess of stock, shall equal, or to distribute them on the same principle among as many candidates as he shall think fit;* and such directors or managers shall nqt be elected in CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION WEDNESDAY, 1664 MAY 4, 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1665 SEc. 2. All laws passed pursuant to the foregoing section may be by the General As - sembly. from time to time, amended or re pealed. The CHAIRMAN. The question is on the motion to strike out section two. The motion of Mr. McCoy to st rike out section two, was agreed to. The CHAIRMAN. The question is upon section three. The Clerk will read. The Clerk read section three, as fol lows: SEc. 3. The capital stock of corporations chartered by this State, shall not be increased in any way or ior any purpose, except for cash actually paid into their treasury or ex pended in the improvement of their proper ty. All acts of incorporation heretofore passed, under which the corporators shall not organ ize and commence business pursuant to the acts of incorporation, within one year after the adoption of this Constitution, shall be null and void. Foreign corporations shall not transact business in this State, without having at least one permanent office therein, to be desig nated by law, where process can be served; nor until they shall have given such aecurity as may he required by law for the perfor. mance of their obligations incurred in this State, which security shall be at least-equal to such obligations; nor until they shall have paid such taxes-as may by law be imposed upon them. The term corporation as used in this ar ticle, shall be construed to include all asso ciations and joint stock companies havingl any of the powers or privileges of corpora; tions notpossessed by individuals and part nerships. All corporations shall have the right to sue, and shall be subject to be sued in all courts, the same as natural persons. Mr. WAIT. Mr. Chairmnian: If it be true that this is embodied in any other article, as I understand it is, I move that it be stricken out. Mr. ALLEN, of Crawford. Mr. Chair man: I think the genleman from Henry [Mr. Wait] is mistaken as to this section having been included in any other report. In the provisions relating to railroads, yesterday, we passed a section to that effect, but that only applies to railroad corporations. There is no provision in the legislative or any other article, that as to any other corporation, capital shall be paid in before increase of capital stock, and it seems to me that there is the same reason for the provision in case of other corporations, as in that of rail-. roads, and that it will therefore be proper to retain this section. Mr. McCOY. Mr. Chairman: The gentleman from Crawford [Mr. Allen] is certainly correct in his statement, but lines four, five and six of this section have been adopted in the legislative article-in the forty-first section of that article. aMr. ALLEN, of Crawford. Mr. Chairman. I would suggiest then that the gentleman move to strike out the lines imdicated-the last four. Mr. McCOY. That, Mr. Chairman, is what I proposed to do. Mv motion is to strike out lines four, five and six. Mr. HAY. It strikes me it w dt ould be better to strike out the whole section. It would produce great difficulty unless habitually disregarded, as in a great many e corporations, the stock represents something more than the cash capital paid in. It may represent also the property with which the corporation goes into being. A man may put valuable improvements, real estate, into a corporation as part of: the stock necessary to operate the corporation, which is represented in the stock, as well as the cash capital. any other manner, after the adoption of this Constitution. SEC. 5. NO law shall be passed by the Gen eral Assembly granting the right to construct and operate a street railroad within any city, town or incorporated village, without the cons ent of the local authorities having the control of the street or highway proposed to be occupied by such street railroad. Mr. McCOY. Mr. Chairman: The re port of the Committee on Miscellaneous Corporations is composed of matters of all sorts. Some portions of it have been already adopted by the Convention, in the legislative article. The first section has reference to the enlargement and-extension of charters; the second to the amendment and repeal of charters; the third to the capital stock of corporations chartered by the State, providing that it- shall not be increased in any manner, unless money is actually paid in. I move to amend the first section of this article by striking out.all down to the word "and," in the- third line. I: make this motion for the reason that in section forty-one of the: legislative article I: find that provision covered. Section fortyone of the legislative article reads as follows: SEC. 41. All existing charters or grants of special or exclusive privileges, under which organization shall not have taken place, or which shall not have been in operation, shall cease after ten days from the time this Constitution takes effect, and thereafter have no validity or effect whatever. I move also to amend, by striking out,~ in the third line, the word "also," and the word "extending";inthe fourth linethe word "also" being unnecessary, and the word "extending," having been provided for by section forty-one of the legislative article. The section as amended, will then read as follows: Valuable inventions and manufactories for the pur p ose of m anufacturing useful inventions, frequently constitute a part of the capit al st ock of a company manu - facturing a patented article. If legisla. tion is necessary, it can be provided by a general la w, but I th ink this ought not to be in the Constitution. Mr. TINCHER. I am satisfied that this; section should be stricken out. It wouldI interfere with much important and legit imate business in this State, and afford no protection. Mr. HAYES. Mr. Chairman: I think there is one clause here particularly dan gerous to the business interests of the State. It is this: Foreign corporations shall not transact, business in this State without having at least one permanent office therein, to be designa. ted by law, Where process can be served; nor until they shall have given such security as may be required by law for the performance of their obligations incurred in this State, wich security shall be at least equal to such obligations nor until they shall have paid such taxes as may by law be imposed upon them. The object sought here was probably good, but the effect would be to drive away much business that is now done here to the great advantage of our peo ple. For example, it might make illegal a loan of money by a corporation not hav ing an office in this State, etc. I know one corporation that loans two or three millions every year in this State. If corm. pelled to comply with these provisions, or have its loans made illegal, its capital would be withdrawn from the State, which would be a great misfortune. I'hope the motion to strike out the sec tion wsill be adopted. Mr. ATKINS. Mr. Chairman: It is clear to my mind that this section ought to have been subdivided into at least three sections,' as it involves.indepen,dent' matters, without' connection or relations with each other. I do not think it can be disposed of in a correct or intelligent manner, without that course being taken in effect by the committee. The first paragraph of the section con tains a valuable principle, though it seems to be in an imperfect form, as here expressed. It is obnoxious to the objec, tions urged by the gentleman:from dSan gamon [Mr Hay]. He has remarked that the capital of many corporations: doing business mn the State, does not always consist of actual; cash stock- but is prop' erty, and is really a part of the capital, fulrnishink~ a security to that- extent to those doing lousiness- with such companies~ in the same manner as cash. The first clause reads: The capital stock of corporations chartered by this State shall not bre increased in anyway, or tbr any purpose except for cash acta. ally paid into their treasury or exzpended in the improvement of their property. It is-not enough, under that phraseology, that corporations should -actually spend their cash ill buying property, though it may be the most valuable propferty in the State —situated at Chicago,S3prin~gfield or other large-city —paying large interest. They are limited strictly to) "the cash actually in the treasury,"? or "cash expended in the improvement of their property.,' That seems to mivery objectionable phraseology, but perhaps it maight; be obviated by an amendL nent. It seems to me to be very jus and tree rSECTION 1. The G enera l Assembly may, by general laws, uniform in their operation,pro vide for renewing and enlarging existing charters, but shall pass no special act for any such purpose. Mr. MERRIAM. Mr. Chairman: I move to amend the motion of the gentle man from Whiteside [Mr. McCoy], by striking out the entire section. Mr. McCOY. I would ask the gentle man to give his reasons for striking out the section. Mr. MERRIAM. I do not wish to enter into any argument upon the matter. I think the section is entirely unnecessary, as what it contains is abundantly provided for elsewhere. Mr. McCOY. I do not understand that there is anything provided in any portion of this Constitution, so far as we have passed through it, making this provision for enlarging or for renewing existing charters. I may say here, I have no particular interest in it. It was presented by other gentlemen of the committee, and it is immaterial to me whether it goes up or down, but I am satisfied it has not been provided for. The CHAIRMAN. The question is upon striking out section one. The motion of Mr. Merriam, to strike out section one, wasagreed to. The CHAIRMAN. The question is upon section two. Mr. McCOY. Mr. Chairman: I move that section two be stricken out. The CHAIRMAN. The Clerk will read the section. The Clerk read section two, as fbllows: 417 ]SfAy 4) 1870. DEBATES AND. PROCEEDINGS. 1665 1q66 O()sTiT LIT IoAL WED NE mercy of the ring of speculators who rtun the insti tution. Now, this sec t ion is for the protection dof the interests of all the shareholders and the people who propose to put their money into stock companies. On account of the manner in whi c h s tock co mpan ies are being managed, some reform is abso lutely necessary. We put our money into a Qtock com. ,pany, and the first thing we kno w it i s confiscated by th e ring. The men who get contraol o f stoc k by proxies, which they coa x or purchas e o n m isrepresentation, elect th e e nti re board, and then do as they please. The remainder of the stock holders are in the dark. They have no. body in the board to watch their inter ests, to protest against waste, extrava gance or mismanagement, or to take any steps to protect them until it is too late. This majority having obtained absolute control of the offices of the company pro ceed to plunder the stockholders by high salaries, multiplication of offices, specula ting in its monies and franchises, and abusing their trusts in every respect. That this practice is common, is notorious throughout the Union, as well as in this State, and it is growing worse all the time. This provision will unquestiona bly aff.)rd ev ry stockholder more power of self protection than he now possesses. Its object is not to injure or cripple the rights of the majority in ally respect. Their power to control the offices of the company remains intact; but this is to protect the minority from being plunder ed and robbed out of house and home, their stock confiscated and lost for the want of some representative to look after their interests. I have heard no citizen object to this section. A great many men have supposed that the (Convention would pass it by a unanimous vote, it is so obviously just on its face, and reflects the common opin ion in the State so far as it has attracted attention. This provision will enhance the value of every share of stock in corpora tions, by giving additional security to it. I have no more interest in this matter than any other member, but I have the interest of everv other man. If I choose to put money into a stock company, I want to have some power of protecting it by the means provided in this salutary section. I want at least a minority rep: resenltation ill the board of control, and that is all that is sought here. I do hope the committee wil not strike it out. It can do no harm. It will certainly do an immense amount of good. It is in the right direction -in the direction of honesty and of protection to property, and the interests of shareholders in private corporations. Mr. BROWNING. I simply wish to make an inquiry; and the gentleman from Chicago) [Mr. Coolbaugh] can answer me just as well as any body else. If a shareholder ovens ten shares of stock, and there are ten directors to be elected, has he the right to cast one hundred votes, according to the manner in which these things are now regulated-that is, ten votes for each director to be elected? Mr. COOLBAUGH. I understand he has, or can cast all his votes for one. Mr. BRO W/NISI6L I made the inquiry because the section provides the number of shares held shall be multiplied by the number of directors to btwelected. I did not know whether or not the mode of do against th6m as against similar corporations of this State, I hope, therefore, Mr. Chairman, that that portion of the section to which the gentleman from Co,k [Mr. Hayes] has alluded and objected, will not be stricken out. Mr. WAGNER. I move we proceed to take a vote. The motion was agreed to. The CHAIRMIAN. The question is upon the motion to strike out the section. A division was ordered. The committee divided, when, there being twenty-eight in the affirmative and fourteen in the negative, section three was stricken out. The CHAIRMAN. The question is upon the adoption of the fourth section. The Clerk read section four, as follows: SEc. 4. The General Assembly shall provide by law that in all elec-tions for directors or managers of incorporated companies, every stockholder shall have the. right to vote, in person or by proxy, for the number of shares of stock owned by him for as many persons as there are directors or managers to be elected, or to cumulate said shares, and give one candidate as many votes as the number of directors multiplied by the nu mb er of his shares of stock shall e qual, or to distribute th em on the same principle amo ng as many candidates as he shall think fi t; and such directors or managers shall not be ele cte d in any oth er manner, after the adoption of th ao t io o tis Constitution. Mr. ENGLISH. As this is a matter for the Legislature to dispose of, I move to s t r i k e it ohat. Mr. MEDILL. Mr. Chairman: I hope the committe e w ill consider and reflect a little on this secti on, befo re striking it out. My friend from Sangamon [Mr. Hay] suggests t o me that it is "legislation." Well, we have been doing a good deal of that, all along. a n d this is n ot the first, nor will it be the last "legislation." A very large portion of our work i s "legislative."f In one sense, i iis all legislative in character. The object of this section is simpliy to prot ect the rights of stockholders in in - corpor at ed companies- to protect the right of every stockholder, and to pre vent the formation of rings to co ntrol absolutely, to abuse and plunder the property of the minority of every inco rtion i s not t t ake awa ay mright s of the t majori ty of the company, but to protect . the minority. Suppose a company with a capital stock of $i00,000, elect ten directors. At present, under the ordin ary method of' electing directors, styckholders holding five hundre d a nd one sharus elect the entire byoard, and those holding four hqndred and ninety shares canner elect a man to represent their interests. After these ten directors are thus elected, they can proceed to create an "executive committee," to run the institution, the mem bers of which may not represent a quarter or a fifth of the stock. Thus we have the whole interests of the company controlled by $25,000 or $30,000 of stock. On the plan here proposed the holders of $49,000 by clubbing their votes together could elect four of the ten directors, and if shares to the amount of $10,000 were held by one stockholder he could elect one director to protect his interests, without the power to do which he may be wiped out, being left at the necessary for the protection of property, that corporations, insurance and other companies, thus doing business, should b e requ ired to have either cash or propertv as security for those doing business with them. I think that thiktat i s is evident, in view of our experience with our owna insurance companies-the Fire and Marine Insurance Company, of Peoria, the Farmers' and Merchants', of. Quincv, for instance, aud many others in the northern part of the State, especially in the county of Stephenson. I think our experience in this State shows the necessity of re quiring them to have something more than mere premium notes, often worthless at that, published and held out to the world as real capital, treated as such, capable of being used as a means of inducing and inveigling people all over the State to get insured in those companies on a fictitious and paper capital, without any real basis, either in cash or property. It seems to me, therefore, that the idea contained here is important and I hope it will be preserved, with a slight modificati)n of language, to relieve it from the objections urged, by the honorable gentlem^a from Sangamon [Mr. Hay]. The first three lines at the top of page two it occurs to me have already been provided for in the legislative article. They are therefore entirely unnecessary, and should be stricken out. The legislative article provides that all charters under which organizations shall not have been perfected within ten days after the adoption of this Constitution shall become inoperative and void Therefore, this, if adopted, will be in conflict with that, if it be adopted. The next paragraph reads: Foreig-n corporations shall not transact business in this State without having at least one permanent office therein. 1666 COXST-ITTJTIOXAL (,,ONVP,TION WF,I)N.tSDA.Y, It seems to me it should be retained. The honorable gentleman from Cook [Mr. Hayes] thinks that this paragraph should be stricken out, but I'can conceive of no good reason why that should be done. It is well known that millions are paid in this State every year to foreign insurance compani s, to some even lo-.ated in Eng land, as well as in different States of this union. There is often great difficulty experien-ced in getting service upon them, and,gettidg, them into our courts for the purpose of recovering losses, from them, and if judgments or decrees are obtained against them in cases of losses.' or othez just demands, it is very difficult in maliy instances to collect them, because this class of corporations having no property in the State the persons getting the judgments or decrees are compelled to resort, to garnishee process, in order to col,. lect any part of their demands; or in the event, of -failure by that mode, to take transcripts of the records of their j adg ments or decrees and sue and recover .judgments on these, in the courts of the States where the companies reside and have their home offices-causidg, thereby, great hardship and expense to the creditors. it seems, therefore, evident that these foreign insurance companies, doing busi ness here, should be placed in such a polsition that persons doing business with -thf,-m, having rights of action against them, should have as goo4 facilities for compelling the payment of just demands MAY 4, 187(). D13ATE AD PROGEEDINGS 1667 objection to it than I have stated, with draw the motion to strike out. Mr. HAINES, of Lake. I have no ma terial interests myself in these corpora. tions. Like the gentleman from Greene [Mr. English], I do not feel any special individual interest, but the General As sembly of the State has adopted the rule of granting acts of incorporation upon every application nmade, and the business affairs of the State are carried on almost universally by incorporated companies, imaginary or artificial persoins, having adopted this rule. These corporationss having acqaired a large amtount of prop erty, their interests being so very exten sive, I think it is very proper that there should be some protection to the prop erty in which the Legislature has encour aged investment in these incorporated companies. Corporations of the kind referred to, as I understand it, are merely copartner ships, merely c(ontributions of individu als, for the purpose of carrying on indi vidual enterprises. I am opposed to giv i g them anything like a public capacity. I want to place them for all purposes, so far as I can, in the light of individuals transacting business, and give them no powers beyond what individuals possess, unless absolutely necessary for their ex istence as corporations. If three or five persons engage in busi ness as copartners, each partner has a voice in conducting its business, and is entitled, in person, anywhere and every where, to give his voice in the direction of its affairs. This is a right existing by law everywhere. But, when a company is created by an act of incorporation the rule seems to have been changed. The rule sought ought to have been the same from the beginning. We ought not to countenance the principle that these in corporated companies are public corporations, but confine them to the condition intended. An incorporated company has a board of directors, which may sit in private, and pass a rule that nobody else shall be admitted, because nobody is concerned. The business has been given to this board. No stockholder has a right to be present, unless the rule allows. The very presence of a man in the board representing one-fifth of the interest of the corporation, might suggest something to the balance of the board for the benefit of those they represent. But the principle that the majority of the stock shall govern and control the financial interest of the corporation, is to disfranchise the minority. If the Legislature had not, by these numerous acts, created corporations without number for every conceivable object, it might be different, but having in their generosity adopted this course, it is very proper now to lay down such a rule of conduct in the management of their afthatwe illgiv hoestminrites ro-fairs, as is proposed for the protection ofmoetawenwpoedtvoeo teci~nag.~ist he apait an dihons-the property of the minority.setofie Mr. HAY. Mr. Chairman: I am favorable to the principle sought to be incorporated here, but at the same time, I have some scruples about voting fo)r the section as it is, which I am very confident will not be considered of much force by a majority of this committee, but which I myself desire to state that my vote may not be misunderstood. o a I would be better satisfied with this section if it expressly referred to corpo rations hereafter to be created I have grave doubts of the power of the Legisla ture to make this provision compulsory upon existing corporations, but they could, within the provision of this section, properly prvvide that it should be opera tive upon such corporations in existence as should accept such conditions. I do not think the Legislature would have a right to prescribe this as a compulsory condition upon corporations in existence. Mr. MEDILL. Has the gentleman examined the charter of any corporations to see if it is in contradiction to them? I asked the gentleman from Clark [Mr. Scholfield], the chairman of this committee, and he said that from what examination he had made, it would not be in conflict with any vested rights of any corporations now in existence. Mr. HAY. I speak from impression, Unt having examined. If corporations have accepted charters under the proper construction of which stockholders can, when voting for managers or directs)rs, only cast a single vote for each officer, I doubt whether a compulsory requirement upon them to accept this law woul,d be obligatory. But I see no harm in a general law on this subject, of which existing corporations could avail themselves by acceptance, and which should be made obligatory upon corporations hereafter created. Mr. COOLBAUGH. How could this section conflict with any charter, so long as it does not take from the stockholder the right to vote his share or shares of stock? Mr. HAY. The question of how it might conflict with the rights of the stockholder, would have to be considered, of course. If the effect of it was materially to alter the relations or powers of the stockholders with respect to the effect of their votes, it would alter the effect of the charter. Mr MEDILL. Is it- not in the direction of Strengthening corporations-giving more value to their stock? IMr. HAY. It is my impression that it is, but that is not the question. If the effect of it is to enlarge the powers of the stockholders towards each other, or if it should give an effect to their right of voting, different from the effect of that vote as now existing, would it not alter the rights of the stockholders? Mr. ELDREDGE. Mr. Chairman: I move that we now proceed to vote. The motion was agreed to. Section four was agreed to. The Clerk read section five, as follows: SEC. 5. No law shall be passed by the General Assembly granting the right to construct and operate a street railroad within any city, town or incorporated village, without the consent of the local authorities having the control of the street or highway proposed to be occupied by sach street railroad. Mr. WEANDLING. Mr. Chlairman: I move that we now proceed to vote on section fivre. The motion was agreed to. Ak divisi.on was ordered. The committee divided, when, thore being thirty-five in the affirmative, section five was agreed to. Mr. WASHBURN. Mr. Chairman: l now offer an additional section. The Cl1erk read the additional sectiona offered by Mr. Washburn, as follows: No city or town in this State shall assells or collect taxes on any real eslate not incli~ded within the city or town plat. 31AY 4, 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1667 ing business is to give a man a Dumber of ,votes uqual to the number of shares he holds multiplied by the number cf directiars to be elected. But that being SO, the section is all right as it is. Mr. COOLBAUGH. I have read the section with some degree of care, have given the principle contained in it some reflection, and lo(-)king at it entirely from an impart:ai stand point, I am in favor of it. I see no wrong that can be done to adybody by the adoption of a principle like this in the organization of our monied corporations, and I can see how the rights and interests of gtockholders who happen to be in the minority may be resp(:ct,ed. The principle is precisely this: If I am an individual owner of one-third of the capital stock of an incorporation organized for pecuniary profit, it would enable me to have representation in the board of directors equal to my interest in the stock of that corporation. For instance, if a c(,mpany is organized with a capital stock of $100,000, with nine directors, and I am the owner of One third of the aggregate capital of that company, I will have tiie privilege of electid(r three of those directors, aid have an iuflueince on that board of directors equal to my interest in the company. I can see no wrong in that, but I can see that it is just and fair atid equitable, and that it secures, beyond any doubt or peradventure, the iiittrests and rights of minorities in these corporations. I know myself of instances, that now exist, and have existed within the limits of the State for the last few years, where a 1,-uinoriLy of interest or ownership in the stock of such companies, has been entirely disregarded, although holding, perhaps, almost oiae-half of the stock of the company. Where diversity of opinion exists in respect to the management of corporations, I can see 110 possible wrong in giving i. minority who may happen to d;ffer in opinion from the majority, the right to be respected and heard in the board of directors. I admit that it is a new principle sought to be incorporated in our Constitution' in the management of corporations. But with the reflection I have given it, and the thought I have bestowed upon it, I believe that it is the assertion of a riii i le of ri bt the in 166 COSIUINLC-Y~I~-E~D Now, while the city may have a right, the Legislature, under this provision, may have the power, and it will become its duty to determine what shall constitute an addition to a town, so that, if any citizen wishes to sell acre lots, instead of 150 or 200 feet lots, he may be required to plat it and have the plat recorded, and be come a town property holder, precisely in the same manner as a citizen having similar lots. It does not militate against the proposition proposed here at all. The Legislature has ample power; and it will determine that all men who avail them selves of that mode of procedure shall be recognized as owners of town property, and shall be taxed accordingly. This provision would and could be con strued to mean only that farming lands, lands used for agricultural purposes, con tiguous to towns and cities, shall not be embraced within the corporate limits, and shall not be taxed for city and town purposes. What gentleman has an ob jection to that? We will not stop here to contend for a moment that if a man lays off five or six or ten acres and sells it in that shape, he should not be treated as a town property holder and taxed, but we insist that a man who owns a farm adjoining tlue town or city, should not be burdened with taxes to support the city government, and that it is right that a constitutional safeguard should be thrown around this subject, leaving the question of who shall be recognized as city:and town property holders, for the Legislature in the future. The principleof drawing a line of dis tinction between the assessment of taxes to support the town and city government, and the assessment which goes to support the ordinary expenses of the State gov ern ment should be clearly defined., It is enough for the farmer to support onelet the man who enjoys city and town privileges support the other. Mr. ATKINS. Will the gentleman from Williamson [Mr. Washburn] accept an amendment to this effect —"or any addition or additions thereto." Mr. WASHBURN. I am willing to accept that amendment, if it is thought necessary. I wish, by leave of this Convention, to speak for a'moment in explanation of one word which one member seems to doubt the effect of. A man owning a good large piece of land, say three or four acres, which might be included within the town, yet refuses to let that land be made a part of the town plat by being laid off into town lots, and would hold it without being subject to taxation by the town. I apprehend the word "include," will not necessarily require any property to be divided into lots and streets, and alleys, in order to subject it to municipal taxation. If there be any doubt on that point, I am perfectly willing that should be amended. Mr. BROWNING. Mr. Chairman: I think we had better leave the whole subject to the General Assembly. We may do some very improper thing by the adoption of this proposition. I state a single case, without'attempting argument in regard to it. w - - : In the city of Quincy there is an entire quarter section of land not embraced in the original plat, or in any of the additions made to the city since it was originally laid out. It is worth many hun CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION WED.W.ESDAY, 1668 dreis of thousands of dollars. It has been for years most earnestly desired by the citizeDS that it should be laid out in town lots and put into market. It is, completely surrounded by the city now on every side. It lies right in the heart of the City. It belongs to a wealthy non resident, w'ho persistently refuses to have it platted and brought into market, but keeps it lying there as a vacant quarter section of land. Adopt this, and he may keep it forever exempt from any contri. b tions for the support of the cit, which ? y gives it its value. This whole subject is under the control of the G6neral Assembiv, and I think we had better leave them to manage it. Mr. PARKS. Mr. Chairman: I agree f,,:Ily' with the gentleman from Adams [Mr. BrowniDg]. We had better leave this matter entirely. to the Legislature, or we may in our haste do some improper things. In the cit where I live exactlv the samestateof thii) —,3existsas at Quincv. I know of tracts t land of from three;r four to forty acres, and sometimes perhaps eighty or more, that derive froln three. fourths to nine-t(n('Ihs of their value from the fact that they adioin the city. They get all the beneats f 1 tl,,e city, so far as the value of the property is concerned. Now, I would be very glad personally .to have this clause get into -the Constitution, for I happen to own one or two lit. tle tracts of land, adjoining the city, that are pretty heavily taxed by the city, but we ought to decide these questions upon principle and -not with regard to our persoiial interests. I would bel right glad if we would apply the rule here laid'-down, not only to this matter, but to some other matters that come before us., We are legislating too much, especially upon these'matters of revenue and taxation, an d making trashyamendmentsthatlam afraid will .not be satisfactory to the people, will not work well, and that, whea we come to re. consider the subject hereafter c,)olly, and in the light of a full view of the entire situation, we will be sorry for oursel es. Now, as an illustration, I will mention something that occurred here a day or two ago-in considering the re ort of the gentleman from Sangamon [Mr. Hay] upon the'revenue article. Why, sir, we Mr. WASHBURN. Mr. Chairman: I wish to say a few words in reference to this section. It is introduced for the purpose of preventing some abuses that are becoming very common in this State of late;days. There are many cities an!i towns in our State nowin debt-some of them very badlyin debt-tbat seem to have an oyer-anxiety to get the meaDStOpayuptheir indebtedness, apd are veiv much inclined to get acts of incorportion authorizing them to assess and collect taxes on the farms situated in the suburbs, or a little beyond the suburbs of these towns. That is manifestly very udjust It may be argued that it is not necessary to protect these people by a constitutional provision, but experience of Legislatures has:shown that the people of those towns are always active in advancing their-own interests, while the neighbors living on farms outside of the towns, being busy at work at home, as a matter of course, are not watching the Legislature and are hence unprotected, while the town people frequently get charters authorizing them to extend their ju.risdic. tion a half mile or so out into the country, and go and tax these farmers of the neighborhood. Those who live outside of the town- have no lobby representatives here to watch their interests, while the town is atways much stronger in numbers, and always watching its - oppor — tunity to carry their point I think it nothing but fair that these farmers should be protected by constitu.; tional enactment. Mr. WRIGH,R. Mr. Chairman: Isuppose there is no doubt that many al)u. —, es have grown up in regard to the passing of such le'gislative-enactments as thegetitlemau from Williamson [Mr' Washburn] has alluded to, but there is another view, on the other side of the question, that perhaps the adoption of this sectionwould disturb. There:are many town plats laid out of limited extent. -The town thrives, flourishes and grows, and in time t'-le neighboring land becomes valuable. There are always parties who own land in the surburbs of such a rapidly growiiag town, who want to avail themselves of such a provision, and neglect -or re' fuse to plat their- land and add to the town, but will divide their land into lar,re lots sellia it b metes and boun s M A Yw 4,1 70 D E A E A - P R C E I within the city limits, and the rightful authority of taxation. I submit that a man who erects a building in such a locality as to enjoy the benefits of a city, has no right to any sort of protection in the Constitution against city limits beingso extended as to impose upon him obligations to pay for the advantages which he has received, and is continually receiving, and which he fully appre ciates. wMr. ANDERSON. Mr. Chairman: I move that the committee now proceed to vote upon the section. The motion was agreed to. - The Secretary read the section offered by Mr. Washburn, as amended by Mr. Atkins, as follows: No city or town in this State shall assess or collect taxes on any real estate not included within the city or town plat, or in that of any addition thereto. The CHAIRMAN. The question is upon the adoption of the section. The section offered by Mr. Washburn was not agreed to. Mr. BUXTON. Mr. Chairman: I move that the committee do now rise, and report the article to the Convention, and ask its concurrence therein. The motion was agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The reports will lie upon the table, and be printed under the standing order of the Convention. [The following is the article on misce sellaneous corporations, as reported by the Committee of the Whole]. SEC. 1. The General Assembly shall provide, by law, that in all elections for directors or m anagers of incorporated companies, every stockholder shall have the right to vote, in person or by proxy, for the number of shares of stock owned by him, for as many persons as there are directors or managers to be elected, or to cumulate said shares, and give one candidate as many votes as the number of directors, multiplied by the number of his shares of stock, shall equal, or to distribute them, on the same principle, among as many candidates as he shall think fit; and such directors or managers shall not be elected in any other manner, after the adoption of this Constitution. SEc. 2. No law shall be passed by the General Assembly granting the right to construct or operate a street railroad within any city, townI or incorporated village, without the consent of the local authorities having the control of the street or highway proposed to be occupied by such street railroad. [The following is the article on Railroad Corporations, as reported by the Committee of the Wholev SECTION 1. Every railroad corporation organized or doing business in this State, under the laws or authority thereof, shall have and maintain a public office or place in this State for the transaction of its business, where transfers of stock may be made and in which shall be kept, for public inspection, books, in which shall be recorded the amount of capital stock subscribed and by whom; the names of the owners of its stock, and the amounts owned by them respectively; the amount of the stock paid in and by whom; the transfers of said stock; the amount of its assets and liabilities, and the names and place of residenceof its officers. The directors of overy railroad corporation shall annually make a res port, under oath, to the Auditor of Pub1iC Accounts} or some officer to be designated by law, of all their acts and doings, which report shall include such matters relating to railroads as may be prescribed by law. And the[General A ssemby shall pass laws enforcing, by suitable penalties, the provisions of this section. ~ 2. The r olling stock and all othe r movable property belonging to any railroad company or corporation in this State, shall be considered personal property, and shall be liable to execution and sale in the same manner as the personal property of individuals, and the General Assembly shall pass no law exempting any such property from execution and sale. ~ 3. No railroad corporation shall consolidate its stock, property or franchises with any other railroad corporation owning a parallel of competing line; and in no case shall any consolidation take place, except upon public notice given, of at least sixty days, to all stockholders, in such manner as may be provided by law. SEC. 4. Railways heretofore constructed or that may hereafter be constructed in this State, are hereby declared public highways, and shall be free to all persons for the transportation of persons and property thereon, under such regulations as may be prescribed by law. And the General Assembly shall,from time to time, pass laws establishing reasonable maximum rates of charges for the transportation of passengers and freight on the different railroads in this State, and to enforce such'laws by adequate penalties, and may provide for a forfeiture of their property and franchises. SEC. 5. No railroad or other corporation shall issue any stock, bonds, evidences ot indebtedness, except for money, labor or property actually received and applied to the purposes for which such corporation was created; and all stock dividends and other fictitious increase of the capital stock or indebtedness of any such corporation shall be void. SEC. A. The capital stock of no railroad corporation shall be increased for any purpose except upon giving sixty days' public notice, in such manner as may be provided by law. SEC. -. The exercise of the power and right of eminent domain shall never beaso construed or abriged as to prevent the taking, by the General Assembly, of the property and franchises of incorporated companies already organized, and subjecting them to the public necessity, the same as of individuals. SEC.-. The right of trial by jury shall be held inviolate in all trials of issues or claims for compensation, when, in the exercise of the said right of eminent domain, any incorporated company shall be interested either for or against the exercise of said right. we ought to l eave it to them, and confine ou r selves as far as possible, during the remainde o or of our session, to our appr opriate duties. Mr. GOODHUE. I would like to hear the section read. Th e Clerk read the additiona secional section o ffere d by Mr. Washburn, as amended by Mr. Atkins, as follows: No city or tow n in this State shall assess or collect taxes on any real estate not included withi n t he city or town plat, or any addition or additions thereto. Mr. GOODHUE. Mr. Chairman: I trust this clause will not be adopted in t he Constitution. In a great many instances it would work a very great injustice. -, I apprehend that the section was suggested for the purpose of protecting some particular locality or some special personal interest, and I am opposed constantly and always to adopting a clause in the Consti.tution for the purpose of having a special' application of this kind. Other gentlemen have pointed out instances where the section would work very great injustice, and I know that it would work very great injustice in my city. For instance, within the last year we have voted a tax of some seventy-five thousand dollars for the purpose of assisting in the construction of iron works and rolling mills adjacent to our city. These works are established near to the city limits. They are established in a locality where they possess all the advantages of, the city without being inside of the city limits, and, in my judgment, they should be subjected to all the liabilities imposed on inhabitants of the city, whenever, by extending the corporate limits of the city we see fit to bring them within the taxing power and authority of the municipal corporation. Besides it is in accordance with a special agreement entered into between the city and the incorporated company that they never will resist being brought within the city limits. They appreciated fully their position. They appreciated fully the advantages of their location. They knew they were to reap the advantages of their location near the city limits, and they have no disposition whatever to release themselves from the responsibility of paying the taxes whenever the authorities might see fit to extend the city limits so as to embrace them. An agreement was made between the city and the company, that- they never would resist anything of the kind, and the company not only expressed itself willing to be brought within the city limits, but solicited us to do so at thne very earliest opportunity. Now, only a few instances that might be, have been cited, and in my judgment the principle sought by this section is wrong, for around every city in the State are men who are constantly locating just outside of the city limits, laying out large amounts of money in the erection of splendid dwellings, for the purpose of enjoying the benefits and advantages of city life, screening themselves from responsibility to city authority, and avoiding city burdens and taxation. I insist that this is unfair and unjust. At all events it would be unfair, unjust and oppressive in my city if a restriction of this kind were imposed upon the Legislature so as to prevent the extension of the city limits, for the express purpose of bringing certain interests and'-perso~ ARTICLE -. SECTION 1. The General Assembly may vest the corporate authorities of cities, towns and villages with power, by special taxation of contiguous property or otherwise, to provide for grading,: paving and maintaining,oin whole or in part, streets and sidewalks- but no such improvements shall be made by assessing the benefits to be derived to private property therefrom. SEC. 2. For allother corporate purposes, all municipal corporations may ibe vested with authority to assess and collect taxes; but such taxes shall be uniform in respect to persons and property, within the jurisdiction of the body imposing the same. SEc. 3. The General Assembly shall not impose taxes upon municipal corporations, or the inhabitants or property thereof, for corporate purposes. SEc. 4. The fees, salary or compensation of Diunicipal officers, elected or appointed for a definite term, after the adoption of this Constitution, shall not be increased or diminished after their several elections or appointments. SEc. 5. No person who is in default, as collector or custodian of money belonging to a municipal corporation, shall be eligible to any office in or under such corporation. SEC. 6. Private property shall not be lia. ble to be taken or sold for the payment of the corporate debts of a municipal corporations MAY - 4, 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS.' 160,. IklUNICIPAL CORPORATIOlig. Mr. BROWNING. Mr. President: I move that the Convention do now resolve itself into Committee of the Whole for the consideration of the report upon municipal corporations. The motion, was agreed to. So the Convention, as in Committee of the Whole (Mr. Cummings in the chair), proceeded to consider the report of the. Committee upon Municipal Corporations. The following is the report of the Committee upon Municipal Corporations: 160CWTTTOA CmETO E~DY villages with power, by special taxation of contiguous property, or otherwise, to provide for grading, paving and maintaining, in whole or in part, streets and sidewalks, but no such improvements shall be made by assessing the benefits to be derived to private property therefrom. The last clause contains the only limitation upon the power of the Legisla ture.] After the decision of Larned vs. the sity of Chicago, by which it was held that special taxation of contiguous property was incompatable with another provision of the Constitution, to which I have already alluded, and was, therefore, an unconstitutional mode of making and ma intaining these improvements, some towns and cities changed their ordinances to meet the exigencies of the decision, and required these improvements to be ma de by the assessment of special benefits to accrue to the owners of the property along which the improvement extended, which power and method of proceeding have been more abused, and have been made an engine of greater oppression than any other mode ever adopted in the State. It was to cut that off that this limitation was inserted. I am not myself personally desirous that it shall be retained. If it shall be the sense of the committee to strike it out and leave it without restriction, for one, I shall have no objection. Under this provision, however, as it now stands, the General Assembly can pass a law providing that the corporate authorities of cities and towns shall have power to make all improvements by general taxation of all the citizens, or by special taxation of contiguous property, not exceeding a given percentage, so as to leave it within the discretion of the corporate authorities to adopt for themselves the mode whiche may be most acceptable to them, and the best adapted to the circumstances and wants of the city or town in which the improvement is to be made. The same system will not be adopted by every city and town. One mode will suit one place and another mode will suit another place, and be acceptable to the people there. Under this provision, by a general law not by a special law in each case-the General Assembly may place at the control of the people of each city and town, the determination and direction of this whole subject. It has always seemed to me, Mr. Chairman, exceedingly desirable to keep the power which manages our affairs, just as near the people whose interests are to be managed and controlled, as it can possibly be done. The purpose of this section is to enable the General Assembly to give the power to the people. It is to the advantage of every community to hold the power which controls its own local interest and local prosperity in its own hands. One of the best and most efficient mreans of preserving the liberties of the people and the freedom of the country, is to keep the power always just as near to them as-the condition of the country and the circumstances of the case will permit. Before the decision of the case of Larned vs. city of Chicago, in the city from which I come, the mode of proceeding was that for the city authorities after determining that a sidewalk should be made at a givSen place, to require the owners of the t contiguous property, along which the sidewalk was to be built, to make that sidewalk at their own cost. The method was acceptable to everybody. The au thorities ordered the sidewalk to be made. They gave not ice to A, of the order ifor the sidewalk to be made in front of hi s lot; also to Band C. These partie s s elected thei r own m echanics, fur nished their own material, and made their own sidewalks, at less than one half it would have cost if paid for out of the general treasury, by the city authori ties. Each man had his own work done, and everybody was satisfied with the way in which the law operated. Some towns may not be so well satis. fled. They may not think it right that the owner should be at the cost of the whole sidewalk. The General Assembly can, if this section is adopted, regulate that matter so as to meet the necessities of every locality. The cost of any improvement when made by the individuals themselves, will be less than the cost of the special assess ment of benefits, with the expense of all the complications through which it has to go. [Here the hammer fell.] ["Go on," "go on."] Mr. BROWNING. I will not transgress a rule, Mr. Chairman. Mr. CAMERON. Mr. Chairman: I would inquire if the chairman of a com mittee has not always had the right, by common consent, to consume all the time ,necessary for the explanation of his re port? The CHAIRMAN. Such has been the custom, according to the recollection of the Chair. Mr. BROWNING. Mr. Chairman: I will only say a few words more. I will not dwell longer upon the first section. The other sections are short ~and simple. SEc. i. For all other corporate purposes, all municipal corporations may be vested with authority to assess and collect taxes; but such taxes shall be uniform in respect to persons and property within the jurisdiction of the body imposing the same. In that I presume we will all agree. The third is SEC. 3. The General Assembly shall not impose.taxes upon municipal corporations or the inhabitants or property thereof, for corporate purposes. I do not know- of any instance within my own knowledge of that having been done, hutilt was reported to me that -it had been done,- I thin.k,;in Chicago, where the General Assembly had taken upon itself the imposing taxes for some purpose within that city against the will and wishes, and withgut the concurrence of the city authorities.~ It is a very improper thing to be done, and if it ever has been done It is well enough to guard against it in the future. I think there should be no taxes for cor? perate purposes within a~ municioal corporation, except by the consent of the people and authorities of the corporate bodies... The fourth section is as follows: SEa. 4. The fees, salary or compensation ofmunicipal officers,s elected or appointed for a definite term, after the adoption of this Constitution, shall not be increased or diminished after their several elections or appointments. A very ~ew words in reference to the sixth article. A municipal corporation, like every other corporate body, is a part'nership. It differs iTom priva'te corpora'tions in the pessessiOn of lgolitiCal andi gov ARTICLE -. SEC. 1. It shall be the duty of the General Assembly to provide for the -organization of cities and incorporated villages by general laws, and to restrict their power of taxation; assessment, borrowing money, [contracting debts and loanirg their credit, so as to pre. vent the abuse of such power. SiEC. 2. The General Assembly may vest the corporate authorities of cities, towns and villages w ith power, by special taxation of contiguous property or otherwise, to provide for constructing sewers, grading, paving and maintaining, in whole or in part, streets, alleysandsidewalks: Provided, That no such improvements shall be made by assessing the benefits to be derived to private property therefrom, in cities and municipalities containing less than two hundred thousand inhabitants. SEC. 3. For all other corporate purposes, all municipal corporations may be vested with authority to assess and collect taxes; but'all such taxes shall be assessed upon the valuation of property made for purposes of State taxation, and none other; and such taxes shall be uniform in respect to persons and property, within the jurisdiction of the body imposing the same. And no one species of property, fromli which a tax may be collected, shall be taxed hi-her than other property of equal value. SEC. 4. T he fees, s alary or compe nsation o f no municipal officer, wh o i s elected or appointed for a definite term of office, shall be increased or diminished during such term. Mr. BROWNING. Mr. Chairman: Before proceeding to consider the article by sections, I will, with the permission of the committee, occupy a few moments in explanation of some of its provisions. The report is short, and its provisions simple, but whether they will be acceptable or not is another question. Mr. Chairman: The most interesting, and perhaps most embarrassing, part of this report is that relating to the manner of making and keeping in repair the public improvements in towns and cities. Upon that subject there is, no doubt, a great diversity of opinion; and the purpose of the committee has been to pre. scribe no rule, whatever, but to place the matter entirely and wholly under the control of the General Assembly, that that body may, from time to time, enact such laws upon the subject as the interests of towns and cities throughout the country may require. This first section of the article would not have been necessary at all, had it not been for another provision contained in the Constitution, which requires all taxation within municipal corporations to be uniform with respect to persons and property. That provision, therefore, standing alone, would take fromn the General Assembly the power to make any exceptional law in respect to the construction of streets, sidewalks, alleys, etc., and keeping them in repair whenl made. All these improvements would necessarily have to be made by payments out of th'e general fund of the city, by general taxation, so that a sidewalk along my propertyr, which might chance to be more for my benefit than any body else, or, Derhaps, Dexlusively for my benefit, would have to be paid by the city, at large. Nqow, perhaps, in some cities and towns that flight be regarded as the best method of making improvements. If so, the Legislature can authorize that to be adopted. The section contains but a fesw lines:. S~.C. 1.- The General Assembly mayr vest the corporate authorities of cities, towns ard I 1670 CONSTITUTIONAL C01'iVENTION WF,Dl'TESDAY, The following is the minority report of the Committee upon Municipal Corporations: MA 4, 180 EAE -) ROEIG.1 has been in operation in Chicago and oth er large cities. The city of Philadelphia has pursued the same course in making its public improvements. St. Louis, I be lieve, has pursued the same course of mak ing these local improvements by special as sessments based upon the benefits that the property derived from it. I believe that that has been and is the system that is pursued in almost all the large cities, and it is based upon a policy settled upon after actual experience. If the city of Springfield, for instance, were to make all its local improvements out of the general fund, and were to base taxation upon valuation, and the auth6ri ties should desire to improve property in the outskirts of the city, the valuable property lying right around this public square would contribute the largest share in making that public improvement. In Chicago, where a property holder might wish to improve property four or six miles from the center of the city, valuable property in the center of the city that has been paying special assessments year after year, would pay the largest amount for the improvement of the property on the outskirts of the city. Now, this section says that improve muents may be made by special taxation of contiguous property for the following purposes: First, for grading, second for paving, and third for maintaining streets, etc., but that in making these improve ments, the benefits derived from so doing shall not be so considered. Now, my observation is, and I believe I am borne out by all those who have investigated the subject, that, in many instances, the benefits which the property holder derives from the making of an improvement in front of his lot is very great, and he would be very willing to pay a.portion of it, if an assessment were made upon him. If assessments were limited to contiguous property that might be very unjust, and, if taken out of the general fund, taxation would be swelled to a very large amount. The payment of all improvements out of the general fund, is, I know, advocated by many with great force and justice. The amount of the general taxes in Chicago to-day is $4,000,)00. The amount of special assessments which the property holders pay for the improvements of their lots is $3,000,000 more. If this were paid out of the general f und of the city, we would this year pay $7,000,000, a rate of taxation that would be very great, and might stop many of our public improvements which otherwise would be made. That, in my judgment, would be the effect. There are persons, I knew, who take a different view of this subject, but I beli,~ve they have not given it that careful attention, -which would show what the resul? of a different system would be. We propose to let the people have their choice, so that the plan can be adopted in any city or town in the State. If the property holders are willih,g to pay a large portion of the money for an improvement en account of the benefits conferred on them by improvement, they tmay do so under this section. Every property holder knows that the money he expends in draining, sewers, gas pipes, and putting down a pavement inl front of his lot, benefits him twenty-five or forty per cent. As it adds that valtue di rectly to his lot, he is willing to pay, and therefore assessments, although in many instances onerous and oppressive, are re sorted to. I propose a substitute for the first sec tion, and I submit it, with some deference to the chairman of the committee [Mr. Browning], who, I know, has drawn this up with great care and attention. It em bodies the first and second sections of the report of the committee, and is as follows: Municipal corporations may be vested with authority to levy and collect taxes, but such taxes shall be uniform in respect to persons and property within the jurisdiction of the body imposing the same. Local improve ments may be made by special assessment or otherwise. Gentlemen will perceive in a moment, that that puts the first and second sec tions together, not changing the second section, but investing municipal corpora tions with the power to levy taxes, which shall be uniform in respect to taxes and property, but provides that local improve ments, without specifying grading, etc., may be made by special assessments or oth wise, so that if it does not work well in one city it can be changed so as to adapt it to Qaincy or Springfield, or any other Cinty.,- Gentlemen will observe, on reading the first section, that it limits assessments to grading, paving and maintaining-say ing nothing about the alleys, of which there are hundreds of miles in Chicago. No power is conferred to improve these at all. I hold that when a street has been once graded and paved it should not be kept in order by a special assessment, but that the maintaining of a street once improved should be paid for out of a special fund. To illustrate: The city of Springfield is now laying down around this block the Richardson pavement; when laid down and paid for it should be kept in order by general expense, the property holder having paid his special benefit already to a large amount. The only difference, therefore, between the-substitute I propose, and the one reported by the committee is that it says that all legal improvements may be made by special assessments, or otherwise, so that they can be made by general taxation out of the general fund, if a corporation sees fit. With that explanation, I move this as a substitute for the first section, and if adopted, it will take the place of the first and second sections. Mr. UNDERWO OD. Mr. Chairman: If I understand the amendment of the gentleman from Cook [Mr. Anthony], it is substantially the provision of our present Constitution as expounded by. our supreme coart. I am, therefore, for the proposition. In a public improvemlent in a street or alley or sidewalk, the adjoining proprietor is always either benefited or prejudiced. When the street is laid out, he is allowed comlpensation for the damages. If it is an improvement, by which he is especially benefited more than the balance of the community, rea — son and justice require that he should pay more than the bahrasce of the community. The supreme court in the case of Larned, by a very ingenio3us device; established this rule, that for the benefits which the individual enjoys by reason of the improvement, sever and above the balance of the community, he ought to pay, and that the residue shouldt be paid out of the comomonl fuld of the corporation. Now, sir, the old practice was for Ale ernmental powers, but in respect to prop erty which it owns, and the debts which it incurs, it is a partnership, and like private partnerships, the property of individual members of the firm is respon sible for the debts of the firm, so that the property of every citizen of a muni cipal corporation, is liable to be levied upon and sold for the payment of corpo rate debts. It is true that the party whose property is thus taken and appro?, priated for the extinction of a corporate debt, has a right to file a bill in chancery for contribution. Mr. UNDERWOOD. Has it not been twice decided by the supreme court, that the property of a private citizen cannot be sold for the payment of a corporate debt? Mr. BROWNING. The municipal property. It has not been decided that I am aware of, that one cannot issue an execution, but that one may not levy upon public property. Private property never has, perhaps, been levied on in this State, but in many of the States it has been done, and the principle is one that is as well settled, I believe, in States where it has been adjudicated, as any other, that the private property of citizens of municipal corporations is liable to be levied upon and sold for the payment of debts of corporations. If our foreign creditors should resort to that method, it might subject the citizens of corporations to a great deal of trouble and inconvenience. The section can do no harm and will prevent all questions arising upon that subject. The CHAIRMAN. The question will be upon the adoption of section one of the majority report. The Clerk read section one of the majority report, as follows: SEC. 1. The General Assembly may vest the corporate authorities of cities, towns and villages_,with power by special taxation of contiguous property or otherwise, to provide for grading, paving and maintaining, in whole or in part, streets and sidewalks; but no such improvements shall be made by assessing the benefits to be derived to private property therefrom. Mr. ANTHONY. Mr. Chairman: As the gentleman from Adams [Mr. Browning] has said, this is a very important matter, and it is one upon which there may be differences of opinion in regard to the policy to be pursued in regard to this subject. This provision vests corporate authorities of cities with the power by special tax of contiguous property or otherwise, tos provide for grading and paving, in whole or part, streets and sidewvalks, but makes this limitation: But no such improvements shall be made by assessing the benefits to be derived to private property therefrom. In most cities of this State the system ~)f making these local improvements has been by special assessments, and the term "special assessment," is a term now well known to our law:-the first case having been decided in the 12th of Illinois, where the court define special assessment 'to be based upon an equation of benefits. In many of our Cities swhere the people have had a great deal of experience in this matter, this sub,ect has excited a great deal of attention. In New York, since a city, all public improvements have been made by special assessments. Boston pursued a different course until about four years ago. when it changed its system and adopted that of New-Work, which DEBATES AN1) PROCEEDINGS.. 1671 IIAY 4, 1870. CO~~~~~STITUTIOXAL CO~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~YEXTJO~~~~~~~~~~ WEDNESDAY,~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ of the principal cities are being made under special assessments. Mr. Chairman: I hold in m) hand what is called the annotated Constitution of New York, containing the provisions of the different Constitutions of all the States of the Union, bearing on this subject; and looking them all over, I do not find anywhere, any direct provision authorizing special assessments to be levied within the boundaries of municipal corporations. It is found in section one, however, of the report of the majority of the committee. Here is the language of the Constitution of the State of New York, under which I understand the Legislature may authorize special assessments, and under which all the cities of that State make their improvements: It shall be the duty of the Legislature to provide for the organiz ation of citi e s and incorporated villages and to restrict their power of taxation, assessment, borrowing money, contracting debts and loaning their credit, so as to prevent abuses in assessments, and in contracting debts by such municipal corporations. Now, I understand that in this State these special assessments are made under what is called the right of eminent domain. We have no direct provision in our present Constitution on the subject. There is a provision in our Constitution, authorizing municipalities to levy taxes, and, therefore, we do this work under the right of eminent domain. The courts have decided that we have a right to do this, and for one, on looking all over this question, looking far into the future, seeing the difficulties that will surround us as our municipalities get populous, powerful and rich and corrupt, seeing the troubles that will be brought upon us by these direct provisions, I much prefer that our Constitution should be silent on this subject, or so guarded that there will be no injustice, no iniquities practiced under it. What are the facts with reference to the city of Chicago? We have al way s made these improvements by special asse s sments.' e began in a small way, but have increased under the powers of the present Constitution, until last year we assessed three millions on the property of our city, for special assessments. I see our board of public works are providing for fifteen miles more of pavement for this year, with twenty-two miles yet to be done under the assessment of last year. Let me read to the Convention a little table of taxes for general purposes, beginning twenty years ago: For the general purposes of city taxation, we paid,'per head, in our city in owners of lots to pay the entire expense of the sidewalk in front of his own premises. If he w e re the only m an allowed to use the sidewalk, that would be just, but the moment the sidewalk is constructed the public have the sam e righ t to use it that he has. It is true we cannot reach absolute justice in these assessments for public improvements, but we should adopt a rule that will be as nearly equitable as possible. It is true that when we improve one part of a city by streets and alleys we may prejudice another part, but that is a damage that can not be compensated. I am satisfied that this rule works with much less injustice than the old rule, which puts all the expense upon adjoining lot owners, when perhaps the sidewalk being elevated or depressed, was a serious injury. I think this rule should stand as it is, since we have adopted in the Constitution a provision that for damage to lots, in the construction of roads, streets and alleys, there shall be compensation. I know there are sometimes abuses in assessing benefits, but no human power can prevent that. I think another principle might be incorporated that would be more just-that twelve men should assess the benefits instead of parties appointed by the corporation. I think we would reach more exact justice under such a provision than we do under the present mode. Mr. HAINES, of Cook. Mr. Chairman: I believe it was the order of this Convention that the minority-report should be taken up with the majority. I wouldlike to have the first section of the minority report read. The Clerk read section one of the minority report, as follows: SECTION 1, It shall be the duty of the General Assembly to provide for the organization of cities and incorporated villages by general laws, and to restrict their power of taxation, assessments, borrowing money, contracting debts and loaning their credit, so as to prevent the abuse of such power. I IMr. HAINES, of Cook. Mr. Chairman: It has been the custom to allow chairmen of committees to explain their reports, and as I am the only individual who signed the minority report, I suppose I am entitled to be considered the chairman, making the minority report on this subject. I thought it was a little hasty in the committee to proceed to consider the majority report before having both in juxtaposition. Mr. ~3hairman: In answer to the argue ment~ of the gentleman from Adams [Mr. Browning], I will say, that we are not claiming that, under the system which he recommends, or under the old system, until the supreme court changed.it, a man could not build his own sidewalk — his own improvements; that under the rul'ng of the court that has been taken away. If a sidewalk is to be built, I have a right to build it, if a street is to be paved, I have a right to pave it under the present system. As to the expensiveness of the thing, it is impossible to get rid of the cost of levying the assessment where special asgessments are made. The only way to get r"-d of the expense of making a special assessment, is to make improvements out of the general fund. Nqow, my colleague [Mr. Anthony] has cited the fact that all the,4mprovements * That, gentlemen is under the general tax list of the city, saying nothing about special assessments, nothing about county, State and town taxes. If we were to add our special taxe s to th a t lis t, it would be twenty dollars -and fifty cents per head. If we were to add county, State and town taxes, it would be thirty dollars and-fifty cents per head for the year 1869, orover three hundred dollars for every voter in the c ity of Chicago. This is an alarming increase, and it will be seen that i n 1865, whe n. the war was ended, high prices passing away, paper money increasing in valuo, and gold going down, we acted in the reverse direction, for as gold went down, assessments went up. In 1867 we were taxed eleven dollars and ninety-nine cents per head of population, but in 1864, when gold was at $2.80, we were only taxed five dollars and seventy-six cents per head. In the year 1869, when gold got down to $1.30, we were paying in taxes thirteen dollars and thirty cents per head. Mr. Chairman, the power of taxation is not only a wonderful power, but it is a power that must be so well guarded, that whoever possesses it can go thus far and no further. Otherwise we shall have trouble before us. The moment a man gets into power his nature seems to be changed. He is different from what he was when he was a private citizen. He is looking to see how much money he can squeeze out of the tax-payer, and that is about all the idea he has in his 'head. The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman from Cook [Mr. Haines] has spoken ten minutes. Is it the pleasure of the committee that he proceed further 9 Mr. VANDEVENTER. Mr. Chairman: I would inquire if this minority report is before the committee for consideration? If it is not, I shall object to the gentleman continuing. Mr. HAINES, of Cook. The order was that it should be considered in connection with the majority report. The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman may proceed. Mr. HAINES, of Cook. Let us see what are the provisions of the" first section., of the majority report. It provides that The G~eneral Assembly may vest the corporateauthorities of cities, towns and villages writh power, by a special taxation of contiguous property, or otherwise, to provide for grading, paving and maintaining, in whole or in part, streets and sidewalks. ;Nowf you may, finder this, pave a street at the expense of the property holder — *make a special assessment upon him, and .yet, under this section, have a right to .assess him for maintaining it for all time to come. You not only say he shall make it, blut that he shall maintain it by special assessment, thus relieving corporations of the expense of maintaining streets, andJ the other improvements provided in the section. My experience is, sir, that it does not matter how much a corporation is relieved by special assessments, for it will find a way of spending about so much money every year oult of the general fund, anyhow. And, gentlemen, we had better limit these municipal corporations some. *where. It is a dangerous power to authorize them,/by direct provision in the Constitution, to maintain- these public improvements rby special'assesament. 1850................................... $ 0 84 1851.............................. 1 86 1852................................... 1 95 1853................................... 2 30 1S54................................... 3 01 - 1855................................... 2 58 o 1856.......................... 4 72 1857............................ 6 15 18,58................................... 5 80o 1859...................................5 70 1860................................... 3 42 1861.................................. 4 67 t1862.................................... 4 10 1863................................... 5 69 1864................................... 5 76 1865.................................. 7 29 1 8 6 6.................................. 8 60 1867.................................... 11 99 1 868.................................. 12 89 t1869........................... 13 30 CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, WEDNESDAY) 1672 Mxs 4, 1870. DEBATES AXD PROCEEDINGS. 1673 there are one or two persons who stand out, it is impossible for the officers of a town to compel them to build their walks until it has gone through the machinery of calling out commissioners, and been subjected to great delay. Now, for these reasons, I do trust this section will be left in such a condition that the General Assembly may allow these smaller towns to compel individuals to build cheap walks in front of their property, according to frontage, as used to be done. I know the doctrine of the supreme court, as alluded to by the gentleman from St. Clair [Mr. Underwood], reads very well, and the suggestion that the gentleman made also, seems to be very fair, namely, that it might be well to increase this board of commissioners froImi three to twelve, but I ask gentlemen to consider what would be the result. It would be that these town authorities would have twelve persons to pay instead of three or five, and would therefore be only increasing the difficulties and burdens upon smaller towns I think if gentlemen will look at this for a moment the y will see the difficulties that arise in such towns. And yet, I am free to confess, that in the larger cities like Chicago, perhaps the plan of assessing according to the frontage on lots would not be fair or right, and, therefore, I am not disposed to comnpel gentlemen from those cities to submit to that mode. On the other hand, I do not want to be compelled to submit to the other plan of assessments of benefits. Therefore, I think the amendment of the gentleman from Cook [Mr. Anthony], accepted b)y the chairman of the committee LMr. Browning] will answer the purpose, and shall support it. Mr. MEDILL. Will not the amendment accepted by tile gentleman from Adams [Mr. Browning] cover all these exigencies and suit us all? Mr. SEDGWICK. I think it will, and therefore I hope that we may agree upon it. That is one of the most dangerous pro t isions in the section. Now then, sir, as to the first section of the minority report. It is the language of the Constitution of New York, and, substantially, that of Ohio, Wisconsin, Oregon, Tennessee, Florida, Nebraska, Michigan, California, Iowa, Kansas and Nevada. It authorizes these municipal corporations to levy all the ordinary taxes required to support the government, and in a general way, authorizes assess ments but only in a general way. I would much prefer, myself, to see section five of article nine of the Con stituti-on of 1847, adopted, but if that cannot be, then I am in favor of section one of the minority report, and I move, sir, the adoption of that in place of sec. tion one of the mi7ority report. Mr. ANTHONY. I will modify the substitute introduced by myself, and with the consent of the chairman of the stand ing committee [Mr. Browning], make the amendment, so that it will read SEC. 1. The General Assembly may vest the corporate authorities of cities, towns and villages with power to make local improve ments by special assessments or by special taxation of contiguous property or other wise. Mr. BROWNING. I accept that amend ment. That leaves this whole subject in the hands of the Legislature, and will enable it to adapt it to the wants of each particular locality. The gentleman from Cook [Mr. Haines] is mistaken ir supposing that it requires anybody to make any improvement of any kind or character. It requires them to do nothing. Mr. HAINES, of Cook. I wish to say I never assumed any such thing. It gives the Legisla.ture authority to do so. Mr. SEDGWICK. Mr. Chairman: Perhaps I ought to say something upon this subject, for the reason that the people of my town are deeply interested in it, as I know very well the people of surroundiing towns are, also. Prior to the decision of the supreme court, which has been referred to, we had no difficulty in those smaller towns, in building sidewalks by an ordinance of the town, but after that decision it became almost impossible to build a walk in any town in that region of the country. I know that in the city of Aurora, which at that tilme contained perhaps nearly tell thousand inhabitants, that decision so upset them, so to speak, that they found it almost impossible, for some time afterwards, to build walks, under the law, their charter, and that decision of the supreme court. It was also the case in Sycamore, our county seat, and all the towns along the Burlington road. The difficulty is just here. The walks that are built in these smaller towns are generally plank walks, which cost from two to three dollars per rod. Now, ifthese towns are compelled, as they are under the decision of the supreme court, to appoint a board of commissioners every time a walk is ordered, to assess the benefits an~d damages to each person along the walk, the machinery actually causes a great delay in building the walk, and sometimes costs mlore than the building comes to; said the result is that the towns have to pay out of the general:fund about as mluch to compel parties to contribute to build a walk, as the town would have to pay to build all the walks itself, without reference to the individual. F! 41~ Mr. VANDEVENTER. Mr. Chairman: I move that the vote now be taken. Mr. HAINES, of Cook. Mr. Chairman: I believe the order is first to take a vote upon the section of the minority report. The CHAIRMAN. The Chair is of the opinion that the question should first be taken upon the amendment to the first section of the report of the committee. Mr. HAINES, of Lake. Mr. Chairman: I understand the rule to be that the minority report stands as a substitute for the majority report, and the first question is on substituting the minority for the majority report. AMr. TINCHER. Mr. Chairman: I think the first question will certainly be on the amendment to the mhjority report. Mr. HAYES. I would ask the gentleman from Brown [Mr. Vandeventer] to withdraw his motion for a moment to allow me to offer an amendment. Mr. VANDEVENTER. I will withdraw it then. The Clerk read the amendment offered by Mr. Hayes, as follows: Where an improvement has been made by special assessment, the renewal of the same and repairs shall only be made from the proceeds of general taxation or general funds. Th e General Assembly may vest in the corporate authorities of cities, towns and villages the power to make local improvements by special taxation of contiguous property or otherwise. What does the word "otherwise" mean? What in the world is to be done under the word "otherwise," I wish to know? The courts have gone at great length to encourage these improvements, and yet we are not satisfied with these enlarging terms which the court have applied as against property holders. " By special taxation of contiguous property or otherwise!" The courts say now that we cannot tax contiguous property, but that we must tax all property benefited. Can a more just rule be laid down than that? If the public improvement is sought, and I am benefited, and my neighbor is benefited as well as myself, he should pay his share of the burden. By what rule of justice do gentlemen seek to exclude my neighbor from paying his proportion of +he burden which they impose on me, asthey do by this section. We have loaded the Constitution enough already. Has a~iy, MAY- 4, 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1673 Mr. HAINES, of Lake. Mr. Chairman: I wish the gentleman would not press this matter, which is one of much importance, involving the whole question of the taking of private property for public use in these municipal corporations. Mr. HAYES. Mr. Cliairmai-i: I do not insist upon that amendment if there is objection to it. I am told by some that it will cause enibarrassmel, t. 1, therefore, withdraw it. Mr. HAINES, of Cook. LMr. Chairman: I re-ncw the amendment. Mr. HAINES, of Lake. I wish to say Mr.'IPURNER. The motion is, I believe, to pr(,,ceed to take a vote. The CHAIR-,NIAN. The motion was w;.tlidrawn. Mr. HAINES, of Lake. I wish to inquire of these gentlemen -,vlio have arcued tile adoption of this section, wbat neces,,ities have called for such a provision? We are told that the alteration or amend. ment of every law pre-supposes an existing evil or defect in the existing law, aL, d that unless it is shown that there is some error or hardship in the existing law, the law makirip., I)ower is not called upon to make any alteration. If we are here for any purpose, we are here for purposes only of changing the exi,AtiDg law, according to the demands of the people. Now, there is no demand for a change of law on this subject. We have discussed the power of eminent domain for many days in this Convention, and we now have come to an understanding iu regard to it. The courts have told us long since that these special- assessments, so called, are in, the nature of the power of eminent domain the taking of money or property from individuals for the purpose of public impr3vements The coi-npen, —ation given is the benefits that the individual propertv holder derives in consequence of the public improvement. This principle is well establislied-justly established under the rules which govern this right of eminent domain, and the rights of citizens are so well laid down under these rules, that it is not only impolitic for this Convention to change the rule in the least.;, but it is dangerous to do so. Look at this section for a moment: 1674 COSTJTUTIOAL COVETiO WxDsDAY, nizing special assessments, there has been no difficulty. Gentlemen have asked what is meant by "otherwise." Why that the General M Assembly may enact such laws as will L enable cities, towns and villages to make I these improvements, and tax the cost of them to the contiguous property, or that they may do so by general taxation. - Now, sir, the other question is this: f Why the necessity of putting this clause into the Constitution? I will answer that question. Since the "Larned" case wbas promulgated, almost over the length ' and breadth of this State, improvements of the streets and sidewalks in cities and I towns have ceased, because they have been unable to get these improvements made without costing in litigation as much or more than the cost of the im provements. Recognizing the principle that the courts have adopted in the sev- eral States, we can set the question at - rest without doing violation to any judi cial opinion. We can provide in the c Constitution that improvements of all kinds may be made by special assess ment or "otherwise," and in that way meet the wants and necessities of all the f towns, cities and villages throughout the State. Mr. HAINES, of Lake. Mr. Chair man: Does the gentleman consider L that the decision of the court did not set the matter at rest? Mr. TURNER. Mr. Chairman: It did not settle the question though. Some things were settled. For instance, that under what is termed the right of emi nent domain, certain things may be done, but it does not point out how other c things must be done. There lies the difficulty. If I were looking to a profitable law practice in special assessment cases, I should be opposed to this clause, for I undertake to say, that there is scarcely an attorney in any town or village who can draw up a provision by which a street can be improved that will not cause litigat ion. I hope this section will be adopted as amended. Mr. TINCHER. Mr. Chairman: I am satisfied that the section as amended will meet the views of the majority of the committee, and as the supreme court has set at rest certain principles involved in this section, I move the adoption of the section. Adopt this section and we will set the supreme court at rest, on the remaining principles involved. The CHAIRMAN. The question is on the amendment to the first section. The amendment to the first section was agreed to. The CHAIRMAN. The question is on the adoption of the section, as amended. the Chair, without having thought of the minority report, requested the Clerk to read section one of the report of the committee. It was read and debated for some time, before any movement was made upon the minority report. The Chair will consider the question now before the committee to be on the adoption of section one, as amended. A division was ordered. The committee divided, when section one, as amended, was agreed to. The CHAIRMAN. The Clerk will read section two of the majority report, also section two of the minority report. Mr. HAINES, of Lake. Mr. Chairman: As section two of the minority report re lates to the same subject as section one of the other report, I would suggest that section three of the minority report should be now read.., Mr. BROWNING. Mr. Chairman: Is it the practice when a report is taken to first take up and act upon the minority report 7 The CHAIRMAN. The Chair thinks not. Mr. BROWNING. I think not. If the minority wish the report adopted, they can move it as a substitute. But the question is on the adoption of the majori ty report. ~ The CHAIRMAN. The question is on the adoption of section two, of the report of the majority, which the Clerk will read. The Clerk read section two of the ma jority report, as follows: SE~c. 2. For all other corporate purposes, municipal corporations may be vested with authority to assess and collect taxes; but such taxes shall be uniform, in respect to persons and property, within the jurisdiction of the body imposing the same. Mr. HAINES, of Cook. Mr. Chair man; I offer section three of the minor ity report as a substitute and' move its adoption. The Clerk read section three of the minority report, as follows: SEmc. 3. For all other corporate purposes, all municipal corporations may be veeted with authority to assess and collect taxes: but all such taxes shall be assessed upon the valuation of property made for purposes of State taxation, and none other; and such taxes shall be uniform in respect to persons and property, within the jurisdiction of the body imposing the same. And no one species of property, from which a tax may be col lected, shall be taxed higher than other prop> erty of equal value. Mr. FOX. Mr. Chairman: I offer the following amendment, and move its adoption. The Clerk read the amendment, offer ed by Mr. Fox, as follows: The municipal authorities shall never assess taxes, the aggregate of which, for any one year, shall exceed one and a half cents per one hundred dollars' valuation, except for the payment of indebtedness existing'eat the adoption of this Constitution, unless author' ized by a vote of the legal voters of said municipality. The amendment offered by Mr. Fox, was not agreed to. The question then being on1 the adoption of the substitute offered by Mr. Haines, of Cook (section three, minority report), it was not agreed to. Section two of the majority report, was agreed to. The Clerk read section three of the majority report, as follows 8rEC. 3. The General Assembly shall not impose taxes upon municipal corporations, or the inhabitants, or property thereof, for corporate purposes. Section three of the majority- report was agreed to. The Clerk read section four of the majority report, as follows: 8~sa. 4. The fees, salary or compensation of municipal officers, elected or appo>inted for adefinite time, after the adoption of this Constitution, shall nlot be increased or diminished after their several elections or appointmenits. Mr. HAINES, of Cook. Mr. Chairman: I offer section fo~ur of the minority report, as a substitute for that section of the mnajority report. There is quite a diXibrence sir} in the two sections. t b od y ask ed for a provision of this kind? Mr. BROWNING. Thousands of peo ple. Mr. HAINES, of Lake. Why? Mr. BROWNING. In the city of Quincy and in the towns in the region of country froin which I come, no streets and sidewalks are repaired. This system of assessment of special benefits, as it is called, is so odious that it cannot be en forced, and we cannot make improvements by special tax oLA contiguous property under existing laws. All we ask is that no system may be 'imposed upon us, upon you, or on the people of any other place, but that the whole subject may be left to the General Assembly, that it may act according to the wants of each place. Mr. HAINES, of Lake. That only raises a question of veracity between the gentleman and myself. The supreme court have said that un der the present Constitution these im provements are-carried on under the prin ciple of eminent domain, taxing every man according to the extent of benefits derived. They have laid down the rule just as positively and certain as we can. If the citv of Quincy or the town of Sandwich has slot availed itself of that rule it has not performed its duty. If it will not allow this rule of the supreme court it canx not derive any benefit from this, as proposed. It should seek to un derstand the rule as laid down by the supreme court, and not insist upon a rule here that would be an injury to every municipal corporation in the State. I am at a loss to see how there could be any misunderstanding of the rule. It is simply that municipal corporations, in the exercise of the power of nmaking special assessments to tarry on public improve ments shall make the assessments upon the property benefited. This provision seeks to change that rule and make the assessments upon the contiguous pruper ty; which is an un)just rule, and one that the supreme court has overturned. The city of Chicago has been referred to, and it is proper to refer to it, as there are more public improvements there in a year than in all the other cities in the State, put together. I do not suppose they want to change the rule there. There has been no com plaint in the matter, from Chicago or elsewhere. This change is not demanded, and I hope it will not be adopted. 3/r. T!RNER. Mr. Chairman: I hope this section, as amended, will be adopted. The gentleman from Lake [Mr. HEaines] asks the question, "Why change the rule asserted by the supreme court in the Larned case?" I would inquire if the reading of the case does not indicate that the supreme court was anxious not to put a stop to improvements, but that seeking for some foothold upon which to establish their opinion, found it in the right of eminent domain. It is well known to every lawyer that in some -States the courts have found the power in the right of municipal corporations to levy special taxes. In other States, as in our own, it has been established upon the: right oJf eminent domain. The case has been brought before the supreme courts of different States, and one supreme court has found one authority ibr it in one place, and another in another place} but wherever there has been a clauose in the Const,itution recog. 1 1674 CONSTITUTIONAL CONYENTION WF,DNESDAY, MA 4,17.DBTS- RCEJG.17 SEc. 6. Private property shall not be lia ble to be taken or sold for the payment of the corporate debts of a municipal corpora tion. lM r. TURNER. Mr. Chairman: I question, sir, the propriety of introducing that section into the Constitution. I un derstand that when a municipal corpora tion or city, or town or county contracts a debt, it binds every dollar's worth of property in that city, town or county for t h e payment of that debt, and that that city, town or county may be sued and ex ecution issue. t I am not going to discuss the question of whether an execution at common law can be levied upon private property to pay a corporate debt. The point I wish to make is that the usul I mode of enforcing the payment of debts against a municipal corporation, a city, or town, or a county, is to first procure a judgment and to then, if the debt is not paid, procure from the court a mandamus or mandate against the town or the city or county to pay this debt. The town, or city, or c ounty, obeying that mandamus, supposing it t o be loyal and true to its government, will be under the necessity of levying a tax upon its people. That tax must be levied upon the property, and the property must be immediately sold to pay that debt. That very question has arisen in the State of Iowa, and I think we had better leave this section out. I do not think that an execution issued against the city of Freeport could be in the first place levied directly upon my private property. I understand that the deputy United States Marshal has, in fact, attempted to do that very thing in Jackson county, Iowa. The section as it now stands is too broad, because while the marshal or the sheriff might not lawfully levy upon private property and sell it, there should be power remaining somewhere by which the municipal authority can sell private property, and thereby compel her citizena to pay the debt. Mr. BROWNING. Mr. Chairman: No such embarrassment will grow out of this section as the gentleman supposes. It only prohibits the levy of an execution for a corporate debt upon individual property, which will be done if not prohibited. The citizens of this State will be annoyed in that way. Creditors will select men of large property. The marshal and sheriff will go, as they are doing in Iowa, and levy upon the property of the gentlemen from Chicago to pay a debt of the city of Chicago, and upon the property of the gentleman from Sangamon [Mr. Hay], as he is one of the rich men of Springfield, to pay a debt of this city. Now this provision does not at all touch the power of the corporation to impose taxes for the payment of its own debts, for when it imposes a tax on my property and I fail to pay it, and my propeity is levied upon and sold for the payment of it, it is not sold for the payment of a corporate debt, but for the payment of my own individual debt. I owe the debt to the corporation. So with every other individual, when his property is sold for the payment of taxes in respect to which he is delinquentit is a sale of his property for the payment of his own debt, and the limitation interposes no obstruction whatever to doing that. Ne possible embarrassment n arise out of it. .Section four of the majority report reads: S- CTION 4. The fees, salary or compensation of municipal officers, elected or Appointed for a definite term, after the adoption of this Con stitution, shall no t be increas ed or diminish ed after their several elections or appoint ments. The corresponding section of the mi nority report reads in this way: SECTION 4. The fees, salary or compensation of no municipal officer who is elected or appointed for a definite term of office shall be increased or diminished during such term. Now, it often happens with us that we have to fix the salary after the man is elected, or after his appointment, and if this section is adopted, we cannot do that. It says the salary, etc., shall not be increased oir diminished after the several elections or appointments. It often happens with us that we want to decrease an official's salary. We are obliged to do it, and we have a right to do it, but the man is elected before we can fix it, so that if section four is adopted, we are put in a bad fix. I think the committee ought to consider the section well before adopting it. It says compensation shall not be increased or diminished after the election or appointment. Well, now let us see. Suppose you had fixed the salary of the mayor of a city, if you please, at five thousand dollars, but it had become necessary to fix it the succeeding term at three thousand dollars-by the provisions of section four of the majority report-you could not fix it at all after an election. If you had failed to fix it before election, the new man would draw that five thousand dollars in, spite of you. You could not lower it at all. It seems to me that this section is getting at the thing at the wrong end, and I believe that section four of the minority report is a better one. Mr. VANDEVENTER. Mr. Chairman: I would suggest to the gentleman that the word "may" would be better than "shall" to use. Mr. HAINES, of Cook. I will agree to that. The motion of Mr. Haines of Cook, to substitute section four of the minority report for section four of the majority report of the Committee on Municipal Corporations, was agreed to. The CHAIRMAN. The Clerk will read section five. The Clerk read sectionifive, as follows. S,Ec. 5. No person who is in default as collector or custodian of money belonging to a municipal corporation? shall be eligible to any office in or under such corporation. MJr. HAINES, of Cook. Mr. Chairmhan': I offer section five of the minority report as a substitute, or if the chairman; o)f the committee will agree to put in one -word? the sections will be the samne. The minority report says, "If any officer is in default for money or property." If the chairman wili accept that word — Mr. BROWNING. I have no objection to' that, Mr. Chairman. Let the words "or property" be inserted, though "in default" covers the whole ground. The CHAIRMAN. The question is upon the adoption of the section, as amended. Section five, as amended, was agreed DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1675 MA-Y 4) 1870. Mr. TURNER. Mr. Chairman: While at the end of the law the gentleman may be sustained by the supreme court, will it not be a pretext which will be continually raised and litigate-i, when taxes are levied, and private property is about to be sold to pay a judgment against a corporation? Mr. BROWNING. No, sir. I do not think a lawyer could be found who would bring such an action before the court. Mr. WRIGHT. Mr. Chairman: I wish to suggest an amendment to section six, viz: to add the words "except by assessmerit and collection of taxes." That will do away with any ambiguity in the section. The amendment offered by Mr. Wright was not agreed to. Section six was agreed to. Mr. HAYES. Mr. Chairman: I wish to offer the following additional section: Where an improvement has been made by special assessment, the renewal of the same and repairs shall only be made from the proceeds of general taxation or general funds. I withdrew my amendment a while ago because I did not wish to involve a proposition which was favorably regarded, and which I favored. But I it does seem to me that the propriety of this provision must be very apparent to any one who is accustomed to the frequency with which special assessments occur in our municipalities. I think there ought to be some protection to property holders in large cities against the frequency of assessments. I know of instances where property has been assessed from two to six times. Even since I have lived in my present place of residence, the corporation have raised some of the streets, dug them down, raised them up a,gaID, paved them with wooden planks, paved them with boulders, and then with wooden blocks, and every time made an assessment. I think such abuses should be guarded against, and that after a property holder has paid by s ecial assessment for the improvement p of the street in front of his premises, the corporation should keep it in repair. Mr. HAY. Mr. Chairman: I think we had better leave this matter as it is in the provision adopted in the first section, and leave the whole subject matter to the General Assembly. I would dislike to The CHAIRMAN. The question is upon _section six of the majority report. I I The Clerk read section six, as follows: 4 — (,'ONSTITUTIONAL CON!VENTION bye, and will have parks, and we do not know what other improvements they will want by special assessment. When these things have been improved, it is right that they should be kept up at public expense. It is not right that the proprerty of the citizen should be eternally taxed by special assessments. I am in favor of the proposition of the gentleman from Greene [Mr. English], to nmake this general except as to sidewalks. I would apply it to all improvements except sidewalks. The CHAIRMAN.'The question is upon the amendment of the gentleman from Greene [Mr. English]. The amendment offered by Mr. English was not agreed to. The CHAIRMAN. The question is upon the section offered hy the gentleman from Cook [MIr. Hayes]. The section offered by Mr. Hayes was not agreed to. Mr. BROWNING. Mr. Chairman: I move the committee do now rise. Mr. HAY. I would like to move to reconsider the vote on the fourth section. The CHAIRMAN. The Chair holds it not in order to move to reconsider in Committee of the Whole. Mr. BROWNING. Mr. Chairman: I move that the committee now rise, report the article with the amendments, and ask the concurrence of the Convention. The motion was agreed to. [Th e following is tiue art icle as reported by the Committee of the Whole]. sidewalks, i n which each owner is partictylarly inter est e d. I, sirc o know of many instances in which, unless the owner or occupant of property felt some speci al interest in looking after the dilapidations of property, it would speedily go to wreck. Landlords frequently own large blocks of land and rent it out to careless and imprudent tenants, who contribute much to the waste and dilapidation of the sidewalks about it, and absolutely take up and burn these sidewalks after they are made. Now, sir, I think it would be useful to have our law in s3uch a state that the landlord should look to it that his tenants should not unnecessarily damage the sidewalks or property. Besides, sir, the owners of property or the tenants or occupants more frequently than anybody else contribute to the damage of sidewalks about property. Mr. HAYES. I am willing to modify the proposition so that it may not apply to sidewalks, but only to more costly improvements in the street. Mr. HAY. I think an objection would still exist against it. If when an improvement of. a valuable character is once made to a street, and it is proper to charge a portion of that improvement to the property supposed to be benefited by it, and if in the progress of time that improvement wears out and some other improvemenDt is substituted, which is still of special value to the propnerty interested, as well as to the public at large, I do not see that we ought, by limitations in our Constitution, to prevent some p,)rtion of the charge for that renewed improvement from being charged to the property. I think we had better leave it to be provided in one general law to be framed by the Legislature. Mr. ATKINS. What is the object of assessing taxable labor of citizens to towns and cities, unless it is expended to keep sidewalks in order? Mr. HAY. I suppose that is one object of assessing road labor, but we find it falls very far short of providing the necessary labor and cost of getting sideWalks in repair. Mr. HAYES. I am willing to confina the section to paving streets,. omitting all about sidewalks. Mr. BROWNING. I wish the gentle ARTICLE-. SECTIOtx 1. The General Assembly may vest the corporate authorities of cities, towns and villages with power to make local improvements by special assessments or by special taxation of contiguous property, or otherwise. SEC. 2. For all other corporate purposes, all municipal corporations may be vested with authority to assess and collect taxes; but such taxes shall be uniform, in respect to persons and property, within the jurisdiction of the body imposin the same. SEC. 3. The General Assembly shall not impose taxes upon municipal corporations, or the inhabitants or property thereof, for corporate purposes. SEC. 4. The fees, salary or compensation of no municipal officer who is elected or appointed for a definite term of office may be increased or diminished during such term. SEc. 5. No person who is in default, as collector or custodian of money or property belonging to a municipal corporation, shall be eligible to any office in or under such corpof ration. SEC. 6. Private property shall not be liable to be taken or sold for the payment of the corporate debts of a municipal corporation. Mr. BROWNING. Mr. President: I move the Convention now pIosecute its consideration of the report of the Commitiee of the Whole just made. The motion was agreed to. Mr. HAINES, of Lake. I move the previous question on the pending section. The PRESIDENT. The question is on' concurrence in the amendments, and the previous question is moved. If ordered, it applies to all the amendments. ADJOURINMENT. Mr. ENGLISH. Mr. President: I' move that the Convention do now adjourn. PRAYER. Prayer was offered by-the Rev. Mr. Hale, of Springfield, as follows: Father in heaven, we bow before Thee, our Author, Creator, Preserver and Gove'rnor, asking that Thy blessing may rest upon us in the labors of this day. Thou, Lord, bast kept us during t he night. rIt is in Thee we live, and move and have ou r being, and may we realize Thy presence so constantly with us, and may it be a guard and support,,and guide in all the affairs of our life. We ask Thy blessing upon the members of this body, and upon Thy servant, who, in Thy providence, is called to preside over them. The blessing of the Lord abide with them, give them discretion in all their efforts to do the work of the people of the State who have called them here. And, we entreat Thee, Father''visit their families in their absence. M'ay God's blessing abound with' them to-day in health and strength and providential blessings. Let their houses be filled with joy and their hearts with thanksgiving and faithfulness to Thee. Bless those who are in public stations throughout our State. The blessings of the Lord abide with Thy servant, the Governor, and all associated with him. We, pray for our ,judges and counsellors, and all into whose hands the power of government is committed. May they so discharge the duties of their stations as to extend the blessings which Thou dost so freely confer upon us as a State and a people. Pour upon us, we pray Thee, the spirit of faithfulness to Thee. May the hearts of all the people seek God, know Him who cares to seek and to save the lost, and be redeemed from all evil, that we may be presented faultless at last, through our Lord Jesus Christ, to whom'be glory forever. Amen. READING OP THEE JOURNAL. The Secretary proceeded to read'the journal of the last day's proceedings when Mr. ENGLISH. Mr.. President: move to dispense with the further reading of the journal. #I RECONSIDERATIO1. c Mr. GOODELL. Mr. President: I wish to move to reconsider a section in the revenue article, and to day is the last o 1676 THURSDAY I day for such a motion. I hope the gentleman will give way. Mr. HA-INES, of Cook.'Air. President: I obj ect. The PRESIDENT. A motion to reconsider takes precedence under the rules, of every motion but a motion to adjourn. Of course the motion can only be entered upon the journals to be disposed of subsequently. Mr. ENGLISH. Mr. President: If the gentleman will renew the motion I will give way. Air. GOODELL. Mr. President: I move a reconsideration of sectionsix of the revenue article. The PRESIDENT. The motion will I)e entered by the Secretary. BANKS AND CURRENCY. Mr. TINCHER. Mr. President: I move that the report of the Committee on Banks and Currency be made the special order at half past jaine to-morrow morn g. The motion was agreed to. ADJOURNMENT. Mr. HAINES, of Cook. Mr. President: I move the Convention do now adjourn. The motion was agreed to. So the Convention (at five o'clock and forty-nine minutes) adjourned. F,IG-UTY.EIG-UTff DA Y. TiauiEtSD.kY, Ilay 5,1870. The Convention met at nine o'clock A. Ai., and was called to order by the Presi. dent. Where an improvement has been made in paving. streets by special assessment, the re,iaewal of the same and reiiairs shall only be made from the proceeds of general taxation or general funds. Mr. ENGLISH. I move to strike out (,paving streets," so as to'Include every repair. IVIR. HAINES, of Cook. Mr. Chairman: Whilst this committee may consider that streets are about the only things that will be improved bv sidecial assessments, it must bear in mind that we are now entering upon anew era in the life of municipal corporations. The larger municipal corporations in the country are now laying out and improving large parks. Municipal corporations that are small now, will be 4arge bye-and MAY~ 5, 1870,~ ~ ~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~e.....O.............. A division was ordered. The Convention divided, when, there . being twenty-three in the affirmative and eighteen in the negative, the motion was agreed to. RECONSIDERATION. Mr. GOODELL, Mr. President: If it is in order, I would like to move to re consider section six of the article on rev enue, this morning. The PRESIDENT. It is in order. The Secretary read section six of the report of the Committee on Revenue, as follows: SPcTION 6. The right of redemption from all sales of real estate for the non-payment of taxes, or special assessments of any ch racter whatever, shall exist in favor of owners and personsinterested in such real estate, for a period of not less than two years from such sales thereof, and the penalty for delinquency in the payment of taxes shall not exceed twenty-five per cent a year; and the General .Assembly shall provide by law, for reasonable notice to be given to the owners, or parties in. terested, by publication or otherwise, of the fact of the sale of the property foibr such taxes or assessments, and when the time ol redemp. tion shall expire. Mr. GOODELL. Mr. President: I wish t- have that section referred to the Committee on Finance, as I understand that they have a meeting to-night. I would say to the Convention that, so far as I am acquainted with the condi tion of affairs in our part of the State, this twenty-five per cent. penalty will not collect the tax. It w.11 at least em barrass and delay its collection, and, therefore, act very unfavorably upon the finances of many of the counties, and also upon the finances of the State. I have conversed with gentlemen on all sides of the house here, and they tell me that this is the case in other counties. For that reason I move to reconsider the vote. Mr. TINCHER. Mr. President: I hope the motion will prevail. It did not strike me as being the best thing to be done, when it was done, and I am satisfied that in many portions of the State the reve nues, under that section, will not be collected. I do not buy tax lands, and have n othing to do with the business in any shape, but when we put such a provision in the Constitution as will prevent the collection of taxes, both State and county, we place a great bar in the way of the prosperity of our State. I hope the Convention will reconsider that matter and recommit it to the Committee on Finance. hap ine s o th pe pl li ing wit in he The motion of Mr. Goodell, to take sn i, o r b f r r d y h 3 h i s a t muni ipal cor orat ons of t is tate as from the table the sixth section of the ar- M. H I E, o C o. M. P e i the rtic e we now prop se t tak up ticle on revenue, was agreed to.de t Is t e C n e t o pr p r d t The PRESIDENT. The question is upon reconsidering the action of the Convention, by which it adopted the sixth section of the article upon revenue. The Secretary read section six of the article on revenue, as follows: Allen of Cr'fd., Fuller, Anderson, Gamble, Benjamin, Goodell, Browning, Goodhue, Buxton, Hay, Cameron, Hildrup, Cary, King, Cross, McCoy, Cummings, McDowell Eldredge, Merriam, English, Moore, Forman, Parks, Fox, Peirce, AB SBNT, OR N( Allen of Alex.,Craig, Abbott, Dement, Anthony, Ellis, Archer, Hanna, Atkins, Hart, Bayne, Harwood, Bowman, Hayes, Bromwell, Medill, Brown, Neece, Bryan, Parker, Church, Perley, Cody, Pillsbury, The motion was agreed to. ADDRESS TO THE PEOPLE. Mr. ENGLISH. Mr. President: I offer the following resolution, and move its adoption: Resolved, That the President of this Con ventionappoint a committe e consipsting of nine members, to prepare an address to the people of the State to accompany the Consti tution explaining the same and urge its adop tion. Mr. WHITING. Mr. President: I think that is au important resolution, and it may or it may not be best to adopt it. When the New York Constitution was framed, such a committee was appointed and au address issued, but its success was not such as to encourage us particularly in the same direction. I move to post pone the consideration of the resolution until to-morrow morning. A division was ordered. The Convention divided, when the motion of Mr. Whiting was agreed to. MUNICIPAL CORPORATIONS. The PRESIDENT, The unfinished business before the Convention is the re port on Municipal Corporations, and the question is upon concurrence with the Committee of the Whole ill its amend ments to the article as reported. The previous question has been moved. The motion for the previous question was not agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon concurrence with the Commtuittee of the Whole in its first amendment. Mr. CARY. Mr. President: We do not know anything about what those amendments are. We have nothing here to show. I understood that they were to be printed. The PRESIDENT. They have not been printed. Mr. CARY. Mr. President: My un derstanding was that they were to be laid on the table and printed. This matter of municipal corporations is an im portant one. I move that the amendments be laid upon the table, and the usual number of copies printed. Mr. BROWNING. Mr. President: There were very few amendments made -so few that I supposed that it would facilitate business to go through without printing them. Mr. HAINES, of Cook. Mr. President: Probably there is n1o one article of the Constitution which we are framing so important to the future welfare and happiness of the people living within the municipal corporations of this State, as the article we now propose to take up thus hastily and dispose of without knowing what the amendments thereto are. I think, sir, that to proceed with this report, without having the amendments printed and laid before the members, so that they may fully see their bearings, is unwise and unjust to the ;nembers of this Convention, and unj ust to the people who now live and who are -hereafter to live within the boundaries of these municipal corporations, I hope, Mr. President, that the motion ~f th6 gentleman from JoDaviess, [Mr. nary] will prevail. The PRESIDENT. The question is upset the motion of the gentleman from ToDayiess [Mr. Cary] that the report of' ~he Committee of the Whole upon municp.al corporations be laid upon the table, ~d the usual number of copies printed, 426 to. The, PRESIDENT. The question is upon the motion of the gentleman from Iroquis [iDr. Goodell], to refer to the Cohmittee on Finan ace. The motion was agreed to. IMMIGRATION OF COLORED PERSONS. Mr. HAINES, of Lake, offered the fol lowing resolution, which was read by the Secretary, and not agreed to: Resolved, That the Committee on the Legis. lative Department, t.o whom was referred the matter of the fourteenth article of the Con stitution, prohibiting the immigration of free persons of color into this State, be, and they are hereby instructed to report in lieu of the matter contained in said article, a provision to the effect follow'.ng: That all people have a natural and inherent right to emigrate from one State to another, and that no law shall ever be passed prohibiting the free immigra tion of all persons into this State. SINE DIE ADJOURNMENT. Mr. PARKS. Mr. President: I offer the following resolution for adoption. The Secretary read the resolution, as follows: Resolved, That this Convention will adjourn sine die, on or before Friday, the 13th instant. Mr. HAINES, of Cook. Mr. President: Is the Convention prepared to say that they will adjourn sine die on any fixed day? Mr. ALLEN, of Crawford. Mr. Presi. deat: I move as an amendment to strike out the words "on or." Mr. GOODHUE. Mr. President: I move as an amendment to the amendment to change the wordirjg of the resolution so it will read that we will adjourn when we get through with our labors. Mr. McDOWELL. Mr. President: I move to commit the resolution to the Committee on Schedule. The motion of Mr. McDowell to commit to the Committee on Schedule was agreed to. SEc. 6. The right of redemption from all sales of real estate for the non-payment of taxes (Jr special assessments of any character whatever, shall exist in favor of owners and persons interested in such real estate, for a period of not less than two years from such sales thereof, and the penalty for delinquency i n the payment of taxes shall not exceed twenty-five per cent. a year. And the General Assembly shall provide by law for reasonable notice to be given to the owners or parties interested, by publication or otherwise, of the facts of the sale of the property for such taxes or assessments, and when the time of redemption shall expire. d The yeas and nays were ordered, and, i 1 31AY 5, 1870. DEBATES AND PROCIEEDINGS. 1677 beiing taken, resul-.ed-yeas, 38; nays, 9 -as followfi: IREA.S. Robinson, Sedgwick, Sharp, Sherrill Springe, Sutherland, Tincher, Truer,dale, Underwood, Vandeventer, Washburn. Wright-38. X.&TS. Coolbaugh, Hankins, Haines of Co' k,Wa,ner, Haines of Lake, Wdit, Wheaton, wilitin! Wil,so. -19. T VOTING. Poa.ge, Rice, Ross, Bch lfteld, Snyder, Skinner, Tubbs, Turner, Wall, Wells, Wendling, Mr. Pi-erident-36. So the motion of Mr. Goodell to recon. sider the vote by whibh section six of the revenue article was adopted, was agreed Mr. TINCHER. Mr. President: I movethat theconvention resolve itself into Committee of the Whole to consider,. the article on bankliag and currency. 1678~~ ~~ ~~..ST TU IO. 11~~T O THURSDA —— Y,.. —-.-.,-., the votes cast at such election, for or against such law. SEc. 3. Every stockholder in a banking corporation or institution, shall be individually responsible and liable to its creditors, over and above the amount of stock by him or her held, to an amount equal to his or her respective shares so held, for all its liabilities accruing while he or she remain such stockholder. Szc. 4. The suspension of specie payments by banking institutions, on its circulation, created by the laws of this State, shall never be permitted or sanctioned. SEc. 5. Every banking association, now or which may herafter be organized under the l laws of this State, shall make and publish a full and accurate quarterly statement of its affairss (which shall be certified to, ander oath, by one or more of its officers), as may be provided by law. SEC. 6. The actual paid up capital of any such association shall be taxed in the same manner as-other p;-opert-.. SEc. 7. Private bankers, who receive depot i t s, shall be taxed on the capital actually used in such business the same as the capital of other banks may be taxed by the laws of this State. S.Ec. 8. If a general banking law shall be enacted, it shall provide for the registry and countersigning, by an officer of the State, of' all bills or paper credit, designed to circulate as money, and require security to the full amount thereof, to be deposited with the State Treasurer, in United States or State stock, to be rated at ten per cent. below their par value; and in case of a depreciation of said stock, to the amount of ten per cent. on the dollar below par, the bank or banks owning said stock, shall be required to make up said deficiency, by depositing additional styocks. fAnd s~aid law slhall also provide for the recording of the names of all stockholders in such corporations, the amount of stock held by each. the time of any transfer and to whom. Mr. TINCHER. Mr. Chairman: The Committee on Banks and Currency have had some question in their mind as to whether they had better niake a report or not, for the reason that the government is supplying the people with the currency at present, and it is to be hoped that it may for the future. But for fear that, the existing banking law of the government may sooner or later be disposed of, and we may want to organize banks in our State, we thought it best perhaps to make a report, simply placiug a necessary a,. ount of limitation on the Legislature, 'that they might not at any time inaugu rate a State banking system that might eprove as disastrous as the banking law under which we organized our banks in 1851-for fear that the disastrous results The RESIENT. Theresoutio ofmight follow that we experienced in 1857 hnkafcbyaymasbu wed th~ entema frm Cok Mr.Medll]and lS61, when our banks broke. The dw a a htteewsn ip willbe aidon he abl fo fuure con ommittee have laid down simple, broad aiinothpatothcomte,ete sideration. ~~~~~principles by which the Legislature is to a akr,lweso uiesmn x BANKS ANDCURRENCY.be governed. I do not propose to discuss cp odfn h neet fteSae the report by sections. it occurs to me adpoettebs neet ftepo Mr. TICHER. I now enew y mo-that the provisions of the report arc plain pc tion. ~~~~~~and simple, and are not couched in am ThCAIMN Thqusiniup The motin was ageed to.biguous language, that may have different o efrtscino h eot S{)theConenton asin ommtte o meaniegs, or be construed more than Scinoewsare o theWhle(M. ndrso i te har) Toe first Theio CHIRA.aheCerswl the Comitte on Bnks ad Curency. SscTION 1. No State bank shall hereafter beredscinto ~The rport i as folows:]created,nor shall the State own or be liable ThClrredscintoasflos for stock in any corporation or joint stock SEIO.NacofteGnrlAsml S~cTON 1 NoStat bak shll ereatercomnpany or association for banking purposes, uhrzn rcetn oprtoso so be c-eaed,nor hal th Stte on o beha-now created-, or to be hereafter created. citoswihbnigpwr,wehro bleforanystok i an coportio orjoit- Section two reads: ise eoi rdson,nraedet purpses no crate, orto e hreater SEC, A~. No act of the General Assembly thrt,salginoefc,oinaymne created. ~~~~~~~authorizing or creating corporations or asso-beifoc,ulsthsaehalbsumte SEC.~. N actof te GeeralAsseblyciations, with banking powers, whether o~fis-toavtoftepolattegnrleeto autoriingor reain coportios o 550-sue, deposit ore d~iscount, nor amendments nx uceigtepsaeo h ae n ciatons ~wth bakin poers whthe ofthereto, shall go into effect or in any manner b prvdb aoiyo l h oe issu, dpost ordisoun, no amndmntsbe in force, unless the same shall be submit- cs tsc lcinfro gis uhlw theeto shllgo ntoefect orinanymanerted to a vote of the people at the general M.UDROD r himn be n frce unessth sae sallbe ubmt-election next succeeding the passage of the wolaswhtebytiisitne ted o avot ofthepeope, t te gnerlsame, and be approved by a majority of aill oeo elecionnex suceedng ~ pasag ofthethe votes cast at such election for or against - tepol ftecut ro sam, ad b aprovd b a ajoityof llsuch law.teSae Section four reads: fSu. 4. The susp ension of specie payments by banking institutions, one its circulation, created by the laws of this State) shall never be permitted or sanctioned. Section five reads: SE~C. 5. Every bank,ing association, now or which may hereafter be organized under the laws of thisl State, shall make and publish P. full and accurate quarterly statement of its affairs (which shall be certified to under oathi by one or more of its officers), as may be provided byr law. There are a great many institutions in this State doing banking business, and ill regard to the financial condition of which nobody, except the parties enjgaged in them, know any,thinga. A law require ing a publication of the business affairss of the institution wvill give the people some idea of their soundness and of their financial condition, which I regard as very importarnt. Section six reads: SE,CTION 6. The actual paid up cap,ital of any such association shall be taxred in the same manner as o-ther property. There are a great many banking institut~ions of this State, that just before the first of April, telegraph to some of their correspondenats, either in Chicago or Near York, that they desire $50,000 or $1 00,000 in government bonds, so as J,O avo)id having money in hand on the first day of April. We now propose to put that ill such a shape that they shall be taxed on the amount of monoey used inl that institution, and if the law is correctly drawn up, and they are- required to re.? port on the first day of April, which is the day- they dodge, they will really show they have no capital, or they will have to pa~y for the capital. used. There are millions of dollars in the State to-day, that pay no taxes. Men operate extensively all over the State, and get, entirely clear of taxation. But the people who operate in this way, will, under this provisionI, be taxed aind be liable to their proportion. Section seven reads: ELECTION OF SUPREME JUDGES. Mr. MEDILL. Mr. President: I wish to offer the following resolution for consideration. The Secretary -read the resolution. of fered by Mr. Medill, as follows: WHEREAS, It is provided in the article on the judiciar y t hat at the time -of the adoption of this Constitution, one judge of the supreme court shall be ese judge elected b y otheheletors there of in each of the districts numbered two, three, six, and s e ven, -Resolved, That the Co-mmittee on Revision and Adjustment are hereby instructed to so amend tha,t provision, as to provide for said election of judges on the first Tuesday after the first Monday of November, 187(), instead of on the day when this Constitution shall be submitted for ratification. Mr. MEDILL Mr. President: I will state brieflyy why I offer that resolution. I am a member of the Committee on Schedule, and; in goiingover the work before us, we find it necessary to carry out the provisions of the article' on Judiciary, to provide for separate ballot boxes ill every election district-, a separate poll book, a separate t ally sheet, a separate return, and the machineryr for two elections on that day. The Schedule Committee would like to have- some instructio3ns as to how much machinery they shall' provide to carry out all that work. This call be avoided, if the. Convention see proper, by having thLese judges elected at the November election. If it is the sense of the Convention that the committe~e shall go on and prepare the maacbineury for that election on that day, of course they will comply with. the orders of the Convention. A member of the Convention with whom I have conversed, thinks that the better way would be to amend the judiciary article, anjd provide absolutely for the election of four judges, in addition to the present three, -whether the Constitution fttils or is adopIted-making that all absolute, provision anyhownd then elect the judges at the fall election. As it stands now, if the Constitution be voted do wn, these, foulr judges will fall with, the Constitution, and we will have; no iereae of uj dges in the supreme~ court. I think this mattler- has been overlooked, and I desire thee Convention to take ,it into conlsideration and correct the over SF~c. 7. Private bankers, who receive deposits, &hall be taxed on the capital actually used in such business the same as the capital o other banks may be taxced by the laws of this State. I hope- that whatever amendments may be made to this article, the only object. will be to perfect it. We do not. regard it as perfect by any means,. but we do think a correct principle has been laid down. I can say that there was no_ disposition on the~ part of the committee, either as bankers, lawyers or business men-, except to defend the interests of the State, and, protect the: -best interests of the people. The CIIAIRMAN. The question is up.on the first section of the report. Section one was agreed to. The CHKIRiMAN. The Clerk will read section two. The Clerk read section two, as follows: SICT]ION 2. NO act of the General Assembly author!zing or creating corporations or associations3, with banking powers, whether of issue, deposit or discount, nor amendments thereto, shall go into effect, or in any manner be in force, unless the same shall be submitted to a vote of the people at the general election next succeeding the passage. of the same, and be approved by a majority of all the voter, cast at such election for or against such law.. Mr. UND:ERWOOD. Mr. Chairman: I would ask whether by this is, intended a. vote of the people of the county or of the State?e - BANKS AND CURRENCY. Mr. TINCH1ER. I now renew my motion. The motion was agreed to. St) the Convention, as in Committee of the Whole (Mr. Anderson in the chair), took up-for consideration the report of theCom pnittee on Bansks a nd Currency. [The -report is as follows:] SF,C,TION L. No State bank. Bhall hereafter be created, nor shall the State own or be liable for any stock in any corporation or joint - stock company or association for banking purposes, nlow created, or to be hereafter created. SE~C. 2. No act of the General Assembly a'uthorizing or creating corporations or associatio'n~s, with I banking powers, whether of issue, deposit or discount, nor amendments thereto, hall go into effect, or in anvd man~ner be in forcei unless the samke shall be submitted to a vote of the people, at the general election next succeeding tW passage of the ,same, -and be approved by a majority of all CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION THURSDA.Y, 1678 MA 5, 180 EAE N RCEIG.17 mean to provide in any contingency for the establishment of a banking law in this State, I would merely say that from my experience-and I think the truth of what I say will be apparent to every member here-a provision like that would virtually destroy the efficacy of any law that could possibly be passed. There would be no earthly necessity of undertaking to do business under a genr t eral law if a stockholder were individually liable for the entie liabilities or debts of a corporation. I trust that the gentleman does not mean to enforce a provision of that sort. Mr. ABBOTT. Mr. Chairman: I think that the parties who establish an institution for the purpose of doing bank indg business ought to be responsible for all the debts and liabilities of that banking institution. We have had trouble enough in consequence of the deprecia tion of bank paper, and I think it, is due to the people to secure them against any loss from these barks. Consequently, Mr. Chairman, I am of the opinion that the stockholders of all banks should be held liable for all their bank stock, etc. Mr. TINCHER. Mr. Chairman: While it is true that we could make i t appear so, that could not in fact be done. If it were known that a bank was about to become insolvent, a man holding stock in it would at once transfer it to an irresponsible party, and the result would be that he would be able to defeat the intention of any law. As remarked by the gentleman fromt Cook [Mr. Coolbaugh] that is a provision that does not exist anywhere else, and if it should be adopted we could not find any person who would be willing to take bank stock. The fact is our report here is almost a prohibition aga inst starting banks in Illinois. Mr. PEIRCE Mr. Chairman: I would like to ask the gentleman a question. If the stockholders of a bank cannot trust the bank, and the administration of its affairs, how can they expect the depositors to trust it, or those who take its notes? Mr. TINCHER. They can trust the parties in charge, perhaps, because they are more interested in it than other parties. Perhaps they have got all their fortune, whatever it may be, involved. I hope thse otamenlmfet will not be adopted, for I think it is a bad provision, and I am satisfied that the restriction of the original article is sufficient.H Mr. PEIRCE. Mr. Chairman: I accept the amendment of the gentleman i from White [Mr. McDowell.] The CHAIRMAN. The Clerk will read the section, with the amendment of the gentleman from Grundy [Mr. Peirce]. The Clerk read section three- as proposed to be amended by M-. Peirce, as follows: SEc. 3. Every stockholder in a banking corporation or institution shall be individUally responsible and liable to its creditors for all its liabilities accruing while he or she remains such stockholder. The amendment offered by Mr. Peirce ewas not agreed to. t Section three was agreed to. The CHAIRMAN. The question is upon the adoption of section four. The Clerk read section four, as follows: SEc. 4. The suspension of specie payments by banking institutions, on its circulation, created by the laws of this State, shall never be permitted or sanctioned. Mr. TINCHER. Mr. Chairman: "State" was in tended. Mr. UNDERWOOD. Mr. Chairman: I would suggest, then, that this amendment be made- that the word "State" be inserted. Mr. HAINES, of Lake. Mr. Chairman: I would like to ha ve the chairman of the committee state what portion of the people this is to be submitted to whether electors or others? Mr. TINCHER Mr. Chairman: Only electors will vote. Mr. HAINES, of Lake. Well, then, Mr. Chairman, why not put that in? The courts tell us that there is a difference be tween "electors" and "people." Mr. UNDERWOOD. Mr. Chairman: I would suggest the insertion of "electors of the State" instead of "people," in line four. Mr. TINCHER. I have no objection. This report of the committee is in the hands of the Committee of the Whole. I want it distinctly understood that we do not have any particular pride in having the identical language we report retained. I believe it covers the ground as it stands, but if gentlemen see fit to make changes in language, I have no objection. Mr. UNDERWOOD. I move to strike out the word "people," in line four, and insert ia lieu thereof, "electors of the State." The amendment was not agreed to. The question then being o-l the adoption of section two, a division was ordered, when section two was agreed to. The CHAIRMAIN. The Clerk will read section three. The Clerk read section three, as follows: SECTION 3. Every stockholder in a banking corporation or institution shall be individually responsible and liable to its creditors over and above the amount of stock by him or her held, to an amount equal to his or her respective shares so held, for all its liabilities accruing while he or she remains such stock holder. Mr. PEIRCE. Mr. Chairman: I desire to, amend by striking out of line three the words: To an amount equal to his or her respective shares so held. Air. McDOWELL. Mr. Chairman: I move to strike out all of line t so from the word "creditors," to and including the word: "held" where it first occurs in line three. Mr. TINCHER. Mr. Chairman: I think if the gentleman will refer to all the provisions relating to that question in any of the Constitutions of the respective States, he will findl the same provision that is inserted here. I have no objection to making everybody who has stock individually liable for all the debts, but the usual provision is here and I have never seen any- great hardshipsresulting from it. I believe the section as it now stands is better-than it will be if amended as proposed. Mr. COOLBAUGEI. Mr. Chairman: The effect, as I understand it, of the amendment offered by the gentleman from Grundy [Mr. Peirce] would be to make the stockholder of a corporation responsible, whatever might be the a-mount of his stock, for the entire amount of the debts and liabilities of that corpo ration. That is a provision that does not prevail in other corporations, and j; we DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1679 MAY 5 1870. Section four was agreed to. The CHAIRAIAN. The question is upon the adoption of the fifth section. The Clerk read section five, as follows: SEC. 5. Every banking association now, or which may hereafter be organized under the laws of this State, shall make and publish a full and accurate quarterly statement of its affairs (which shall be certified to, under oath, by one or more of its officers), as may be provided law. Section, five, was eigreled to. The CHA-IRMAN. The question'is upon the aioption of the sixth section. The Clerk read.section six, as follows: Sima. 6. The actual paid up capital of any association rball be taxed in the same manner as other property. Mr. ROSS. Mr. Chairman: I move to strike out "actual paid up." Mr. HAINES, of Cook. How would that provision operate? The bank might have a capital of $100'000, and a surplus of $200,000 would that not exempt the ,surplus from taxatioin? Mr. HAY. Mr. Chairman: I think the provisions of the revenue article, which the Committee on Finance have in charge, are sufficieiatly comprehensive to embrace the whole matter of taxation of these banks, and I think there is danger of puttli3g any special provisions in regard to taxation in this article, as it may be construed as a limitation upon the right of taxation. I would prefer that both sections six and seven should be stricken out and to leave the matter of taxation of these bai3ks to the general provisions of the revenue law, which are sufficiently comprehensive to meet every emerlrenev. The limitation here, of "actual paid up capital," is clearly one under which taxatio-a would be limited. If banks receive deposits and loan them, they do not constitute a part, of the capital of the bank, and yet I do not see wtiy they should not be taxed, with reference to profits they make upon these deposits. It would be much better to leave that to a general rule, to be prescribed by the Legislature, under the general guarantees and sa eguards of the revenue article. Mr. COOLBAUGH. Mr. Chairman: If it be true that the object sought in these seutions is fully. provided for in the revenue. article, I shou7ld say it would be proper to strike out both the sixth and seventh sections, but I have some doubts whether my friend from Sangamon [Mr. Hay] is familiar with the manner in which m&Dv banks and bankers of this State escape all taxation, and whether the revenue article ]'LB sufficiently clear to cover such cases. Now the object of this section six iA to require every bankid association in the 9 State to pay a tax upon its actual capital employed in its business, the same as any individual does. I presume the gentleman from Sangamon [Mr. Hay] thinks that that has been provided for in the revenue article. but I doubt very much 1C8 COSIUINLCNETO ^BDY In the third section which we have passed upon, we have prohibited the Legislature irom chartering even by gent eral law any new bank, not only of issue, but also of discount and deposit, without submitting the question to the people of the whole State. We thus create a monopoly in the saving's banks and other banks of deposit now in existence under our State laws. We double at once the value of their capital s tock by that section. In another section we provide that when these banks make their reports, t hey make them through any of their officers, whether they know the condition of the banks or not. Now we have a section which provides that their actual paid up capital shall be taxed, and the question is, whether that is to be a restriction or extension of the general principle of law in regard to taxation. We cannot tell, but it is certainly satisfactory to put the banks precisely on the same footing'with other property-holders. They ought not to pay any more for their capital than other property tolders, and if their property is taxed equally, the banks will have no right to complain. The next section is that restrict banking, that it thall be safe to th e people of the State. Mr HAY. Mr. President: I w ill read the provision I referred to in the re venue article, covering the provisions of this section. SEC. 2. The General Assembly shall provide such further revenue a s ma y be needfrul, by levying a tax, by valuation, s o that every person and corporation shall pay a tax, in proportion to the value of his or her property -such value to be ascertained by some per so n or persons, to be electe d or appointed in such manner as the General Assembly shall d irect, and not oth erwise; but the General Assembly shall have power to tax peddler s, auctioneers. brokers, hawkers, merchants, commission merchants, showmen, jugglers, inn-keepers, grocery keepers, liquor dealers, toll-bridges, lerries, insurance, telegraph and express interests or business, venders of pat. ents, owners or keepers of dogs, and persons using and exercising franchises and privileges, in such manner as it shall, from time to time, direct by general law, uniform as to the class upon which it operates. The CHAIRMAN. The question is upon the motion of the gentleman from Sargamon [Mr. Hay] to strike out section six. The motion was agreed to. Mr. CUMMINGS Mr. Chairman: I move to strike out section seven. The Clerk read section seven, as fol. lowss: SEC. 7. Private bankers, who receive de. posits, shall be taxed on the capital actually used in such business the same as the capital of other banks may be taxed by the laws of this State. The motion of Mr. Cummings, to strike out section seven, was agreed to. The CHAIRMAN. The Clerk will read the eighth section. The Clerk read section eight, as fol. lows: SEC. 8. If a general banking law shall be enacted, it shall provide for the registry and countersigning, by an officer of State, of all bills or paper credit, designed to circulate as money, and require security to the full amount thereof, to be deposited with the State Treasurer in United States or Illinois State itocks, to lie rated at ten per cent. be low their par value; and in case of a deprecia tion of said stocks to the amount of ten per cent. on the dollar below par, the bank or banks owning said stocks shall be required to make up said deficiency by depositing addi tional stocks. And said law shall also p:-o vide for the recording of the names of all stockholders in such corporations, the amount of stock held by each, the time of any trans. fer, and to whom. Mr. COOLBAUGH. Mr. Chairman: As a member of the committee to which this section was referred, and by which this report has been made, I desire simp.e ly to say a word, which I think due to myself. It is well known, Mr. Chairman, to the members on this floor that I am, by profession and practice, a banker. An~d I am ~orry to hear my colleague [Mr. Hayes] insinuate that this report seemed to have been drawn up —these may not be his actual words, but that was hsis mean. irg-blot ill the interest of the Sta-te, but o~f the banks of the State, to make and perpetuate mon~opolies, Mr. HAYES. Mr. Chairman: I will disclaim any insinuatio3n whatever upon the motives of the committee. I said the tendency would be tocreate such a monopoly. Mr. COOLBAUGHt. Mr. Chairman.: I am quite sure that the gentlemann intended nothing personal, but the scope of his remarks seemed to be that the report was submitted in the interests of banks, and not of the people. s, Private bankers, who receive deposits, shall be taxed on the capital actually used in such business, the same as the capital of other banks may be taxed by the laws of this State. Whether a tax of that kind would pre vent any private person from competing with banks in the loaning of money, I cannot say, and therefore I am dispo)sed to favor the motion of the gentleman from Sangamon [Mr. Hay], to strike out this sixth section, and at the proper time, will vote for a motion to strike out the seventh section. Mr. PARKS. Mr. Chairman: It strikes me, if the view of the-gentleman from Cook [Mr. Hayes] is correct, that in adopting this article we help banks now in existence —prevent the establish ment of more and tend to prevent the taxation of the property of the bankers-we had better strike out the whole article, and have nothing on the subject at all. It seems to me that is the tendency of the gentleman's argument. I do not say that view is correct, but if it i s, we had better have nothing on the subject. I am not in favor of this Convention adopting any section or article which creates such a monopoly in privileges of this kind, as the gentleman seems to think will be created by the adoption of this article. , Mr. TINCHER. Mr. Chairman: It is remarkably strange how "hese questions strike the minds of different individuals. I can see no prohibition here, and there is none sought to be made. It ought to be free to everybody under certain limitations. It requires the submission of these charters to the people. It is very clear to my mind that we want to reach taxation upon these private bankers, and if the gentleman from Sanganion [Mr. Hay], can show me that there is a provision in the revenue article to this eff,ct, I have no objection in striking . out this section. I would be the last man to favor restrictions to prevent the taxation of all property in the State, banks as well as other property. There is no limitation upon banking associations, but we have sought to so which they will be enabled, in the mak ing up of the returns of their property to say that they have nothing subject to taxation. And they do that without di rectly violating any law. They may have $100,000 of capital actually em ployed in that business, which ought to be taxed the same as any other amount of capital, but though they may have on hand at the actual time the assessment is made $100,000 of government securities, obtained the day before, and on credit, yet, under the existing laws they are ex empt from taxation. They make out their returns and show that they have no capital subject to taxation. They have been allowed, under existing laws, to deduct the amount of government se curities from their capital, and they will report j ust enough to make the tax nothing at all, or very small. The same thing prevails amongst pri vate bankers, and is provided for in sec tion seven. There can be no impropriety in declaring the principle embodied in these two sections-that all capital shall be taxed, when employed by banking, the same as other capital. If it be pro vided fir, also, in the revenue article, it can do no harm. It simply declares equality of taxation, and I think it had better be left in. Mr. WAIT. Mr. Chairman: Is it not true that private individuals who loan money, operate in the same way-pur chase bonds just before the time of taxa tion, and then say they have nothing but government bonds-that their means are in government bonds? M~r. CO(OLBAUGH. lYes, sir. Mr. WAIT. Mr. Chairman: Why not, then, leave this subject to be dealt with by the General Assembly? Mr. COOLBAUGH. This committee were preparing an article on the subject of bahjking, and it was designed to apply to batiks. Mr. WHEATON. Mr. Chairman: I offer an amendment to section six. As it now reads, it will be a limitation upon the power of taxation. Nothing could be taxed but the actual paid up capital on the principle that the expression of one thing is the exclusion of every other. The amendment is as follows: Insert after the word "association" in the first line, the words, "And the earnings and surplus of any such association, and all moneys used and employed by them in their business." MI. TiNCHER. Mr. Chairman: I think that goes a little further than I should favor. Nevertheless, the Legislature is limited aSuto how far they shall go, and they need not go the full extent as provided here by this amendment, but may go: just as far as they regard it to be exp~edienlt and right. I will accept the amendment. Mr. WHIEATON. I would suggest to the gentlemnan that I put in that last clause to cover the case of banking institutions that are banking;=on their deposits — savings banks, for instance, whose nominal capital is $75,000 or $100,000, but who are banking onl a capital off half a million dollars, ob',ained tram deposits, for which they ought to be taxed. Mr. HAYES. Mr. Chairman: I sgree with the gentleman from Sangzmen [Mr. Hay], that his is the safest plan. It is not at all certain that by putting in preyis ions about taxation we may not be building up a monopoly for She banks now in existence in this State. CONSTITUTIONAL CON-VENTION T.HU]EtSDAY, 1680 MA 5,17.DBTSAD RCEIG.18 h ing but half a cent margin-and no addio tional deposit:required. - Mr. ROSS. Mr. Chairman: While I s concur in the suggestions of the honora ble delegate from Cook [Mr. Coolbaugh] - in relation to the propriety of dispensing with national banks, I do not come to the same conclusion he does in regard to the retaining this section in its present form. It has been justly stated by that genf tleman, that the Illinois stocks will all be out of the market in a short time. If I another contingency shall occur to which the gentleman alluded indefinitely-that is the restoration of a political party to power in this country that will look to the interests of the whole people-we t may reasonably hope that the day is not far distant when this vast national debt s will all be lawfully paid according to the terms of the contract, and this oner ous burden on the tax-payers of the s country removed. Then this section is to stand as a constitutional provision without any means of establishing a currency. The State and national debts o will have been paid, but we will still have a, constitutional provision that we can only use those kinds of securities in establishing a currency for the people.! Mr. COOLBAUGH. Mr. Chairman: I. would like to ask the gentleman a question. There are several modes of paying off the national debt proposed by the party to which the gentleman belongs. Which does he advocate? Mr. ROSS. What party does the gent l eman belong to? [Laughter]. I am glad my friend belongs to the democratic party. I was going on to say, Mr. Chairman, that this leaves us with no means to establish a currency for the country. The contingency may arise, when the State and national debts are extinguished, that the people of the country will want to furnish a security for the circulating mediumn, in the real estate of the country, perhaps twentyfive per cent. of the value of real estate in the State of Illinois as security for the redemption of the circulation. I ask why the representatives of the people should not determine the kind of security, and why we should be limited to the kind of security provided in this section? I have thought for a long time that the policy pursued by the government of the United States, in declining to take up the five-twenty bonds, when payable, according to the terms and provisions of the lapv under which they were issued, was dishonest and bad faith upon the part of the government; that they should take them up, in good faith, according to the provisions of the law. Sir, the people of this country, at this time, demand and should have a thousand millions of national currency, to transact the ordinary, legitimate business of the country. And what are those in power doings They are taking the money away from the people. They are contracting the currency until we feel its evil effect in every portion of our common country, and every branch of business. They are putting the screws down upon the people, by withdrawing their currency. In other words, they require, as in'days of yore, the people to make bricks without straw. They require heavy taxes to be paid by the people, and yet withdraw from them the necessary currency to pay them. Sir, I look for I have had a great deal of doubt in m own mind whether, under the existing state of things, it is policy for us to sub mit anything, and I have great doubts now, whether there is any propriety in this Convention taking any action what ever upon the subject. If the Convention deem it wise to take any action, I trust it will be maturely considered and in accordance with the experience we have upon the subject o banking. I believe this article was prepared wisely, deliberately and judiciously to meet any exigency that may arise. To my mind, Mr. Chairman, two of the best sections of the report have been stricken out by the committee. I am not so much interested in this article now as before, yet I wish to say in regard to this section, that it is the ground work and basis of the system of banking provided for in this article, and that it embodies a principle and a system by which the public will be protected. It provides a system for the redemption of the circulation of banks, if they should ever be established, that now prevails in the national banking law. It provides that no other system of banking shall ever be established than one based on United States or Illinois securities. In a few years we shall have no illinois State securites. Hence, the security for the re. demption of the circulation of any bank which may hereafter be created, is provided in this section, in a manner which must, beyond any contingency, always serve as a guard against loss and as a protection to the public. If we adopt anything on this subject, I hope we will adopt this article as it is. It embodies the experience, the wisdom and the knowledge, and about all of it too, that the bankers of this country now possess in regard to the protection of the public in respect to bank circulation. It is possible that before many years the existing national banking law, which I hold has been a great national blessing, may cease to exist. It is known to every public man that a large portion of the peopleof this country are opposed, and I think unjustly opposed to that system. From circumstances connected with its organization, thev have sought to array public prejudice against it, and havetaken a position of hostility to that law. If some of the politicians of the country regain power, as I hope for some reasons they may do, it would not surprise me at all to see this national banking law repealed. If that should be the case, we want something to take its place. I amn sure that section eight of this article contains the germ and substance of what we should have, and I hope if we adopt anything, we will adopt it as it stands. Mr. SPRINGER. Does the gentlemanl desire to have this section adopted, in order to provide a place where the people may fall when the democrats get into power? [Laughter.] Mr. COOLBAGI!G. N~o, sir} but on which the people may stand when the democrats come into power. [Renewed laughter.] Mr. TUBBS. Mr. Chairman: I move to srike ont after the word "stocks," in fifth line to'the b:~nk" in sixth. If this be not stricken out stocks may depreciat-e:,ine and a half per cent., lear 421 t t t c t i 8 t t i t a e MAY.5, 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDIINGS. 1681 ward with hope and expectation to the time when our State and our national debt will be extidguished, not by repu diation, but by payment, according to the terms of the contract. Then, sir, this section will be of no utility what ever. I hope it will be stricken out. Now, in response to the interrogatory propounded by the honorable dlegate from Cook [Mr. Coolbaugh] in relation to the payment of the national debt Which does he advocate? First, I would wind up the uational banks. Second, I would take up a thousand millions of five-twenty United States bonds, now payable by the issue of'United States national currency, and leave the same in the hands of the people as a circulating medium. Third, Provide by law fL)r funding national currency in three per cent. United States bonds. This plan will dispose of over a third of the national debt, in a safe, stable currency for the country, which will draw uo interest, and to that extent, relieve the taxpayers of the country, and give the government the benefit and profit of furnishing a circulating medium for the country, until the national debt is paid off. This plan or something analogous to it, I regard as reasonable and just, and in the interest of the overburdei3ed taxpayers of the country. I know of no good reason why the legislation of the country should be in the interest of the bankers and bond-holders, and against the interest of the government and the taxpayers. I sincerely hope some such plan may be adopted, and I hope this answer will be satisfactory to my friend from Cook [Mr. Coolbaugh.] Mr. UNDERWOOD. Mr. Chairman.The reason wb.v State securities and natiodal securities are required to be deposited, I presume is, that they can readily be converted into money, so that a bank may redeem its circulation or pay its debts' Now, sir, we have provided in the article on future amendments, that any one article of the Constitution can be amended by two-thirds of each bradcli of the General Assembly, and a ma oritv of the people at an election held thereafter. If we should be so fortunate which I do not IF C ( THURDAY may bank if they desire to do so. Talk about issuing banking notes upon land and real estate-over in the hills of Fulton county, perhaps! I would like to know the value of a circulation based upon such a foundation. It would not be worth more than ten cents on a dollar-perhaps not that. I hope this section, if adopted at all, will be adopted about as reported. The gentleman from Warren [Mr. Tubbs] says this six per cent. might go down to nine and a half, so that we would not quite get ten. Suppose he should say that when it got to five per cent. we might get but four and a half or not quite five. I would like to know where the gentleman would stop. We have got to have a limit. That limit is the same in the Iowa and the New York law. I believe it is sufficient to protect the people. I tell gentlemen that with this report adopted as reported, no man in the State of Illinois can organize banks to rob the the people. I regret exceedingly that sections six and seven were stricken out, for I regard the provision in them as vital. Mr. ROSS. Mr. Chairman: I believe I will introduce a motion to strike out the section. Mr. HAINES, of Lake. Mr. Chairman: It is astonishing that every time that anything is proposed for the security of the people, and against the creation of monopolies, it is claimed some wrong is to be done. It was so in regard to the railroad article which appeared to have been prepared with great care, and with reference to the interest of the people. This article seems to have been prepared in the same manner, and yet at every step we are met with the objection, that it builds up monopolies. Can there be a state of things in Illinois under which monopolies have greater sway than the present, in the absence of the proYision proposed? Can we leave any portion of this subject blank, which is recommended by the committee? We cannot. We are called upon to adopt this report as made. One gentleman objects to the second section, which declares in general terms that no banking law, creating a bank of issue, deposit or discount shall come into existence, unless it is passed upon and approved by the people. He wishes to strike out "discount and deposit," because it gives a monopoly to existing coreporations. I wish that that gentleman would go as far as the principle ought to go. We have come to a time when railroad corporations are public corporations, to a certain extent, at least. Two gentlemen on this floor, by sound argument, have lately demonstrated it. Banking corporations havezbecome a necessity at the present day, and they are public corporations to a certain extent. It is in the power of the Convention to adept at the present time, all provisions necessary for the benefit of the people, in regard to existing banking institutions. And if the people wish to place restrictions on the present banks, they may do so. They have a right to do so and they M ought to do so. Let us make progress, in this direction, as far as we can. The striking out of this section ismadvocated by the gentleman from Fulton [Mr. Ross] and the gentleman from Crawiford [Mr. Allen]. The gentleman from 1682 CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION TiEiU-RSDAYI State securities, banks may be required to deposit sufficient to meet such depreciation. Mr. ALLEN, of Crawford. Mr. Chairman: If the effect and the intention of the section will be.Ito entail ii'pon our posterity the curse of a heavy national debt, then I am against its retention, for I am opposed-,to the doctrine advocated bv the gentleman from St. Clair [Mr. Underwood], that our posterity ought to be required to bear this burden. As an individual, I feel it my duty to leave my children free of debt when I am called hence. I do not think any man acts wisely who leaves his posterity an inheritance of debt. The present generation have incurred this debt; the present generation ought to pav it, however burdensome it may be. Now, whether the retention of this section would be to entail that debt to our posterity or not, I am not able to determine, but I enter my solemn protest against the heresy that such a curse ought to be entailed upon our posterity. Mr. TINCHER. Mr. Chairman: If there is a-ay gentleman of the committee who wants to make speech, I do not at present want to make mine, but as it is a pretty good thing to make a political speech on, I guess I will pitch in. [Laurhter. The gentleman from Fulton [Mr. Ross] has entered the arena and tl,.rown down the -alove upon political grounds' audthe gel,tleman from Crawford [I%lr.iAllen], for fea't the other might beat him for Gcivernor, has pitched in on the same side. I would like to know how the gentleman from Fulton [Mr. Ross] proposes to dispose of the debr,, unless he wishes to repudiate it. Mr. ROSS. I would take up a thousand millions with currency, aiid would fund the balance in three per cent. bonds. Mr. TINCHER. It would be a very nice operation, and the gentleman su.ggests, upon paper, a very plausible looking thing, but what would it be worth? Exactly what some gentlemen said it was -during the war-not worth a cent. We propose to pay the national debt; we propose to keep the bonds good, and we do not propose to repudiate. We expect to have national bonds for half acent'ury, yea, a century, until the third generation of the entlemen are lain in the silent Vermilion [Mr. Tincher] says there is a candidate for Governor behind-all this. No matter about that. I do not want to discuss politics, or ha-;e that sub ect drawn into this discussion to its detriment. Mr. ALLEN, of Crawford. I desire to suggest to the gentleman that I did not advocate the striking out of this section. I said I did not know what its influence would be on certain matters. Mr. HAINES, of Lake. I do not wish to refer to gentlemen personally, simply because they view this differently from what I do. but I wish to ignore politics as havidg anything to do with this at all. I wish to have this decided on the -necessity and demands of the people' This section merely prescribes what shall be security for the issue of paper, to pass as money, by corporations. Suppose that we never issue any paperthat these corporations are not empow. ered to issue any, who is harmed? But if these corporations are to issue paper as money, this section says that it shall be based first on the securities of the United States of America. We will B,cc(-.Pt that. Secondly, on the securities of the State of Illinois, and that is as far as we choose to go. Now, we have a voice in the government of the Urited States and in the payment of its indebtedness, We have the absolute control f the financial affairs of Illinois. Having Control of one entirely, and in part of the other, we will receive their securities, but not those of the State of Kentucky-a State which the United States was compelled in the late rebellion to cover with the heels of the boots of our soldiers, to keep its finances anywhere-we do not wish to take'-heir securities.'ties We will take those skurl in which we are interested, and whenever the time comes that we cannot get those securities, then the time comes when we cannot ii;sue the paper, because we do not want irresponsible paper. Has anybody any objections to thyt? There ought to be none at all. If a banki institution is good, it is only good so ill-gr as it is secure, and it is not secure to us unless based on the securities here named. Mr. ROSS. I would suggest to the gentleman that in twenty or thirty years AY, - 1870. DEBATES.................... - ed in this country. We will never fail tc have a national debt upon us. I can see nothing wrong in requiring that all notes which pass as the representative of value. t shall be secured by the deposit in the vaults of the State treasury of the best securities the country affkrds. I consider L section eight as the redeeming section of a the whble article, and I hope it will not ' be stricken out. p i nMr. M3EDILL. M3r. Chairman I re gard this banking article in the light of a e precutionary provision against further contingencies. - I would never vote to substitute any l State for a national svystem of ba-nking. o I want currency to be uniform in value e al si uad-.rc lot,-r nl entrol Wa haIve thi - tried the State SYstem to our heart's cont tent, and have suffered intolerably from - it. It is still fresh in the memory of ; every gentleman upon this floor, and of every one of his constituents, what our t experiences were with various systems of , State banking from the first inception of b the State system until its final explosio n, b when it went down in one grand wreck, and swept out of existence fourteen mil lionis of the property of the people. From its inception, until that inglorious end, the people were injured continually, vexed swindled and robbed by their State system of banking. The chief merit of the proposed sys-. teni reported by the Committee on Banks and Currency is, that it is closely model led on the national system. It is an ab breviated transcript of the national bank system. It provides fr the same class ofi securities, for the same sort of surveillance over the banks, and it is a precaution against the contingency that our national banking system may be swept away by some change of parties or policy or sudden gust of popular passion, that we should have provision of this kind in our Constitution, as a substitute against such possibilily that we can fall back on. The national system will expire by the statute of limitation in fourteen years hence, e and unless it should be renewed we shall have no currency system, national or State: thereafter. This article, therefore, is useful simply as a spare sail or a spar, to be laid away for use to meet a contingency that may occur. The security provided for in the seetion under consideration consists of United States stocks and State stocks. While it is very likely that long before fourteen years have expired this State will owe no debt, and have no outstandi ng bonds, there will be plenty of national bonds then outstandlng and long thereafter. I must differ somewhat from my friend from Crawford [LMr. Allen], who desires a speedy payment of the national debt. He is sound on many questions, and he may be right in this, but I beg leave to differ from him, nevertheless. The debt cannot be paid speedily, except by a pro tcess of intolerable taxation on the present generation. To attempt to extinguish that debt by a rapid payment, will require enormous oppression, and crippling taxation upon all the industries of the people. We are paying it off now altogether too fast, in my judgment. It is being extinguished at the rate of ten or twelve millions of dollars a month, by the most harassing and oppressive system of taxation that it is possible to conceive. There is no ne. d ) cessity for this. The public good does not require it. The true policy is that s pursued by Great Britain. Iler steadfast . policy is to reduce the interest of the debt} and reduce taxes on her people. The gentleman from Crawford [Mr. r Allen] says he does not want to transmit f to posterity this load of national debt. t Has he reflected that if this generation undertakes to discharge this debt, it will - trainesmit to posterity twenty five hunadred millions less property, and all its accumr lations from the use of the money fair the next thirtyyears? If we give them r less debt we give them less property. .Our children will be better- sati-s&ted with the property we shall accumulate and tun =, L texX, thnn- uX, Rl KrEse ft — W'th- the Union preserved, and law and order firmly established, and a debt, which to them will be very much lighter than the debt is to us, than they will be with no debt and but little property. The national debt to day is equal to sixty-two dollars per capita. At the end of this century, according to the census tables, based on the progress of popula tion since the beginning of the govern ment, we will have one hundred millions of people in this American Union, and the debt will be but twenty-five dollars per bead, provided none of it is paid be fore then. If we reduce the interest to four or five per cent., and pas only the interest on the debt for thirty years, we will have the use of all the money which the gentleman pro?poses to wring from the tax-payers, which, with its earnings, will represent a capital, by that time, of perhaps five times the present debt. If, then, we take $2,500,000,000 of our pres. ent capital and pay it over to the public creditors, we shall not be able to trans mit that much property to our children, nor the $7,500,000,000 accumulation upon that property. Twenty -five hundred millions of dollars saved and invested in business, in building cities, towns, rail ways, ships, factories, mills, opening mines, and new farms, will earn annually thus employed, five or six times as much as the interest on the debt, which would be saved. Why, money at simple inter est earns ten per cent., but when employed in active business, as an aid to labor, it earns twenty five or thirty, or evon forty per cent. a year. Thereibre, in order to save our posterity, the next generation, an indebtedness drawing four or five per cent., which then will be but twenty-fire dollars per head, we must, to follow the advice of the gentleman from Crawford [Mr Allen], deprive our children of a capital of not less than ten thousand million of dollars. In a politico-economical light, in my judga'ent, this would be a huge blunder, and in statesmanship a financial blunder is an unpardonable crimne. G~reat Britain has pursued the other policy. Instead of taxing the people and taking their capital away fromt them to discharge her debt, she has reduced the interest to three and a half per cent. by cultivating the credit of the nation and inspiring confidencee in the minds of capitalists, and has continually abated taxes and lightened the burden on the producers, until England to-day, lay virtue of the pursuit of that policy, has become the creditor of>th~e world. She is the banker, the merchant, the manlufacturer, the common carrier and the money. lender of this globe. Had she puarsuled thte ol her I s 8 s 8 0 a b I I i t e M.&Y 5, 1870. DEBATES AND PROC- REDINGS. 1683 and perhaps prematurely. We must re member that whatever decision we ma. arrive at in this committee, will not b flnal. After we have -not through, Argus with his hundred eyes will examine wha we have done. There is unquestionably, wbeti-ier just o-r Uri-ust, a prejudice iii the public mind against national banking institutions. For my part, 1 am free to say# that I am prejudiced to a Considerable -extent agttin,,, them. I think with the great mass of tti Amene.in people that national bankid is the great tree of monopoly, which ha brought forth much bitter fruit. Rail road monopolies and manufacturing a-u other monopolies are simply branches o strongly fav,3r!ng the interests of the na tional banks, but I respectfully submi that this section is uot drawn in the interests of the banker, but in the interest of the people. It simply provides for the pr' otection o the public and the safety of the citizen, by requiring that any bank circulating bank notes as money, sball be compelled to deposit security with the State Treasurer, so that the public may be saved from loss in case of failure. I have no hope that, within the lifetime of any gentlean upon this floor, the hour will arrive when we will be free from national indebtedness. If this present debt were discharged tomorrow, there are claims enough flled in the different bureaus at Washington, to create a new debt as large as our present. I do not desire to see the present national debt wiped out, because I think that there would be another debt upon us almost as large, and before many months. I do not think that because this debt was contracted by this generation, this generation ought to pay it. We owe something to coming generations, we also owe something to ourselves. We should not make ourselves beggars, to make our children princes. In all the struggles of Europe during the Nepoleonic dynasty, the people did not take the view advanced by the gentleman from Crawford [Mr. ALICD]' viz: that the generation -which contracts a debt should pay it. in England, so far from her national debt being considered a curse, it has been thought by many to be a blessing to that 1q84 COSTITUTIOAL COYENTIO THtxsDAY, osition in finance. All history proves that men will not lend money for nothing, and give par for irredeemable, inexchangeable notes, whether they be called "greenbacks," or "graybacks," or "shinplasters." Mr. MERRIAM. Mr. Chairman: I rise to ask a question for information. Are we not acting under the five minutes rule? The CHAIRMAN. The Chair has been informed that we are acting under the ten minutes rule, at present. uMr. MERRIAM. I understand, sir, that the five minutes rule was only suspended during the discussion of the railroad article. Mr. BROWNING. That was the case, Mr. Chairman. Mr. TUBBS. Mr. Chairman: It is not necessary to continue the discussion of the payment of the national debt. Whether unalloyed good, or unmitigated evil, it exists, and will continue to exist for at least a generation to come, and during that time will furnish the best possible security for redemption of bank issues. If it should be paid off within thirty or fifty years, the establishment of some other kind of security would perhaps be desirable. But in that event, provision can easily be made. I hope the section will not be stricken out. Mr. WASHBURN. Mr. Chairman: While this section is ostensibly prepared for the protection of the people, there is no doubt of one effect that it will have, whether that was designed by the framers of it or not, and that will be to give, within a period of five years, to the owners of the United States bonds, the exclusive monopoly of the State banking system. There is no question about that, for as there will be no State stock in existence at that time, no other man can go into the banking business except the owner of the United States bonds. Mr. TINCHER. I would inquire of the gentleman, if he supposes any one man or body of men, will ever be enabled to monopolize the bonds of the United States? Mr. WASHBURN. I think they do it very completely now. I do not know that any one political party will, but whoever holds the United States bonds, will always be able to combine, and act in concert, to further their interests and, their advantage. And another thing: It may not appear very strange, but there seems to be a unanimity of action among those who own these bonds to perpetuate their existence, and delay, as long as possible, the payment of the national debt. I suppose this is because the United States bonds are an extremely profitable investment. If the people cannot make real or personal or any other kind of property, worth six or seven per cent. per annum, worth as din-mh to them as the interest this debt bears as a matter of course, the longer they delay paying the debt the more it is accumulated upon them and the worse it is for them. Ift however, they can make this property worth ten per cent., while it costs them six or seven, they may make money by extending the payment. But is that the case? Can the people make their property or money yield six or seven per cent. per annum, on an average? Do the people make property, or money, on an average, worth as much as the interest these bonds are drawing? I am 1684 CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION THtrP.SDAY, policy, and begun, after the battle of Waterloo, to,-queeze and oppress her people in order to pay off her national ,debt in a generation, or even to discharge it by this time, she would be to-day a nation little higher, pecuniarily, in the scale of nations, than is Sp!iin. We can pursue no wiser and safer example than to follow in the footsteps in this respect, of that monev-wise and sagacious nation. Like processes will produce like results. One word in reply to my friend from Fulton [Mr. Ross]. He would discharge the national debt by issuing a thousand millions of additional greenbacks. But a greenback is a debt as much as a bond. It is simply an obligation against the governments promise to pay for value received-but drawing no interest. Does he suppose the people will lend the government a thousand millions of dollars for nothing, and that he can keep these notes at par, or at any fixed value? Does he mean that the thousand millions of greenbacks are never to be redeemed? If that is the idea, then they will be worth nothing. A debt which is never to be paid, and draws no interest, is worth as much I ess thaia the paper it is printed OD, as the cost of the paper, and of the printing. Such notes are shinplasters of the basest and most worthless description that it is possible to utter or invent, no matter who issues them. If he means that these greenbacks are to be redeemed, I ask how and when? If they are to be redeemed in coin, who has the coin? The government is not a bank. It does not do a banking business. It does not discount paper, or take collaterals for security. It doesnot take mortgages or property, personal or real. It dees Lot even redeein its own notes on demand, but has dishonored them. Once it was in partnership in a national balk, but the bank was destroyed, and wisely, for that reason. I hope we are not going back to the old Nicholas Biddle bank system again. The government is unable, Mr, Chairman, to keep its present $366,000,000 of greenbacks at par. They are vibrating up and down in value as much and as often as the mercury in a thermometer under the iinfluence of temperat'ure. Last year tbey were at a discount of forty per cent. To-day they are at a discount of fifteen er cent. To-morrow the ma certain they do not. If they do not, then they are making money by paying them off just as fa,t as possib te. It is true that those who own the bonds are uot making money in that operation as fast as the bonds make it for them, but the men who have the debt to pay, the taxpayers, are making the money, and always will, by paying their debts as fast as possible. It is a proposition that cannot be denied or disputed, that if a man who owes a debt can use property in the interim, and make it worth more to him than the interest that debt is drawing, he can make money by delay, but, if the interest is worth more than the increase of that property would be to him, during that time, he is losing money by the operation, and will save money by payiDg it off as fast as possible. It is a plain case, and if the people will take the trouble to make the calculation, they can very manifestly see that there is no nation or State or people- that can take money or property and, on an average, make it worth as much as the interest of these bonds. Therefore, it is manifestly for their interest and the best economy for them to pay off this debt as soon as possible. And, for the same reason, it is as manifestly to the interest of the bondholders to delay the payment of it as long as possible, because it is a more profitable investment than could be made in any other kind of property. These things are so plain that they cannot be disputed. Now, sir, while I would like to see the interests of the people protected in all respects, I do say that the effect of this section eight will be to create an interest, a rirgl if you please, in this State, which will be in favor of perpetuating the debt of the United States, in order that, should the present national bank system fail'. they may have an everlasting complete monopoly of banking upon United States bonds upon the same principle in this State. Mr. CUMMINGS. If I understood the gentleman from Cook [Mr. Medill] aright the, idea advanced was that the ((national debt is a national blessidg." The .idea advanced was that this nation would not have been prosperous at the present time had we paid off the debt immediately after the war closed-that the debt is a blessing. MAY 5, 1870. DEBAT~~~~~~~............................. 168 by ore or more of its officers, as may be provided by law. Suc. 8. If a general banking law shall be enacted, it shall provide for the registry and countersigning, by an officer of State of all bills or paper credit designed to circulate as money, and require security to the full amount thereof, to be deposited with the State Treasurer, in Unitt-d 8tates or Illinois State stocks, to be rated at ten per cent. below their par value; and in case of a depreciation of said stocks to the amount (of ten per cent. on the dollar below par, the batnk or banks ow ing said stocks shall be required to make up said deficiency, by depositing additional stocks. And said law bhall al-so providei fIr the recording of t-!e names of all stockholders in such corporation, the amount of stock held by each, the time of any transfer and to whom. Mr. TlINCHER. I move the article on banks and currency be niow taken up in the Convention. The motion was agreed to. The PRESIDEN I, pro tempore (MNIr. Allen, of Crawford, in the chair). Time Convention will first proceed to the couiisideraition of amendments made in Comtmittee of the Whole. The first amend. ment is made in section four; strike out "its," and insert "their." The Secretary read section four, as follows: Snc. 4. The suspension of specie payments by banking institutions, on their circulati~iu, created by the laws of this State, shall never be permitted or sanctioned. arMr. FORAIAN. Would it be in order to move to strike out all except three sections? The PRESIDENT pro tempore (Mr.' Allen, of Crawford, iu the chair). Not at present. The question is on the adoptioni of this amendment. The amendment was agreed to. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore (Mr. Allen, of Crawfi-rd in the c hair). The . next amendment reported by the Committee of the Whole. is to strike out sect ion six. cThe Secretary read section six, as follows: S~e. 6. The actual paid up capital of any such association shall be taxed in the same manner as othet.r property. Mr. TINCHER. Mr. President: I do inot wish to detain the Convei,tion withc any argument, out I regard the strikiog out of sections six and seven, as strikiihg out the vital part of the report. I think they ought to be retained. be re~-, nr hal he tae wn r e a- Mr. FORMAN. Mr. President: My Idinttikteei tyds~sto ~e or ii stckin nycorortio o jontopinion is that when sections six and t idfutwt h ainlbns u purpses,nowcreaed o tobe hreaferseven are stricken out of this report, thethcoplii ista wehvno crest ed. ~~~~~~most vital part of the report is destroyed.sfiin uie o ainlbnst SEC.2. o at ofthuGenral sseb~y I imagine it is well known toevery gen.-nwrtedmns ftepbi.Te aut~tr~ngor reaingcororaons)r 55Otlenman upon this fioor, that nearly all theara atr(ffro,adaeatopnt sue, epor or d~cnnt, ior amndmets -king capital of this State is now ex-cinptto.Priscno eneth theeto sallgo nt ei~et o inmanerbeempt f'rtim taxation. I ain inclin~ed to akigbiesunespritdb In lrce unessthesam shll e sbmitedthink the only way to sulijtct it to) taxategeerlgvrmntodso to a vote 0 the people ttegnrldc ion is by placing some such seetioin as (WIrritac,i urcutthr tionnes suceeingthe assge f te sme,this in this article. If' these two sectionsaeol w itonlbns hr r castat sch lecton r oraganst nchare tint restored, I will move t,) strike out too he te ilgsi hc law. ~ Everystockholderthe other sections of the report except lreaon fbsns sdn,ada Sac. in a banking ~sections one and two.thyd nohaeatoabak,te corortin r n~iuioasl il e ndvia- Mr. SEDGWICK. Mr. President: Imshaesmtinga usiuei ove an abve he mtint t sockby imcall for the yeas and nays upon concur- tepaeo hm hs ak fd or erhel t anamnuteqal o is r erriog with the Committee of the Whole [(Staddson hud fcus,b resectve hars 0 hid r al ts iablitesin striking out the section.tatd accuin wileheor hereiaia schstok- The yeas and nays were ordered, and Setosee prvdstaprvt Sac. 4. The susp~~~eniononpcepyet g taken, resulted —yeas, 15, nays, 39 ak hc rciedpsissatb banin intiutinson h-ir irulaio, as follows:taeontecptlatllusdith er as a curse. It takes the latrger portion of their labor to pay taxes that the wealthy should pay a fair share ofa It is creadtig an aritocracy thrhom daut our land. It is makiAng surfs of tne masses. I want th e wealthy to statmd upon t he same platform as the labor ing man does. When the wobking man has thtiled durisg the dapr, ad takeb a gm.)verifnlent green back r ter his pay, I say at thei cat prabmise of the government is just as sacred and the government is just as much bound to p a y hatat on te dollar in gold wheneve r he denlawodti it, as it is to the holder of its bonadi s the in te re st in gFhplds W heinever the idea is advanced that we must pay this debt in g4ld, I want it underst~ood that if we wa,.nt to deal justly -we riust go) back and pazy those who have survived thleir tern', of service in the arm-y. M,Nake- just restitution to them, in steadi of s-aying that we have paid them in full f,)r ttl(,Ar services-pay them what is their dute in gold —pay the widow and orpha,~n what is justly th~eir due, in gold, belb~re you pay more to the bondholder and to the banker. If you make a distin,ction, at all, make the distinctio.n where we ask it-iu-mke it in favor of the oppresse~d —the laboring a:~id producing classes, not in favor of those who have gold-!jot ia favor of those who are wealthy —not ia favor of the bondholder a-ad the banker, but in favor of the work ins masses The, CHAIlR.MAN. The questioni recurs on. the motion of the gentleman from ]Fulton [Mr. Ross] to strike out section The motion was not agreed to. The CHA~IRMNAN. The question is on the amen-LdmA~ent o,f the gent.leman from The amaendmtenjt offered by Mr. Tubbs Wa~s no~t a-greed to. The CHIAIR:51AN. The question recurs on the sectiore-. Sect-ionI eight was agreed to. T,.Ir. TINCHIER. I move the commiittee do0 BOIw rise, report the, article to the C'on~ventit-on, and ask its concurrence therein. The m-otion was agreed to. [The. foll,)Wirg is the article as reported by the Commiittee of the Whole.] SI&CTo,' 1. No State bank shall hereafter ~,~ e;ed nr sall he tateownor be lia ABSENT, OR NOT VOTING. Allen of Alex, Craig, Pillsbury, Allen, of Cr'fd,Demnent, P, age, Archer, HIttnkins, Rice, At kins, Hannha, R, )binlso n, Baiyne, Hart, Seholfield, B~,wm~an, Hatyes, I Skinner, Brom)twell, Neece, Watll, Brown, Par-ker, Wendling, Bryan, Park-s, MVr. President —29,. Buxton, Perlcy, S,, the amenidment of the Committee of the Whole, to strike out section six, was not agreed to. LE-A.E OF ABSENCE. Mr. ENGILtS!I Mr. Presidlent: I ask leave of absence fo~r the gentleman from M,,rgan [Mr. At~kitns]. Leave was granited nero. con, BANKS AND CURRENCY, AGAIN. The PRESIDELNT, pro temnpore (,Nr. Allen, of Crawford, in the chatir). Tile question is upon, conicurring with the committee in striking out section seven. T'he Secretary read section seven, as follows: Sno. 7. Private bankers, who receive de. posits, shiall b~e taxed on the capital actually used in such bu?!nees thie same as the cap,ital. of other banks maay be taxed by the lawi of this State. ~ Mnir. WAIT. Mr. President: There'is a di~spoiitioai here to stop deb~ate on this itipt-rItaDnt qu-estioni. I saw thie gentleman ft-)i'~m D(-,Kalb [.1r. Sedgwick] rising, and supl,.os,ed hi,ti ob)ject to b~e the satne as before. I t.hinik we made a mistake when we reinstated section six of this art6cle. Mr. TINCHER. Mr. President: The committee have no disposition to cut o,ff debat.e. I think the sub~ject;shouli be discussead. .Sr. WAIT. So do I, Mr. PresidentI and I desire to say a few words on it. I do~ not think there is any di,-position to find fatult with the nati~onal baniks, but the cotuplaiiit is that we have Dot a. sufficient number of national banks to an~swer the demands of the public. They are a matter o-f favor, and are not openl to c~)mipetitioni. Pairties cannot enter the t.atikiijg business uniless permitted by the, general government to do so. Now, tl'(r instance, in our county there are only two national banlks. There are two or three other village-s in which a lar~ge amuounit of busin~ess is done, and as DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1685 M.&Y 5, 1870. Fuller, Sedgwick, Go,tut,)Ie, Stiort,ill,' G,jodell, Snyder, Goodtiue, s' priliger, Haluee, ofCook,8utllerland, Rtti nes of Lake, Ti n c tier, Harwood, Tal)hs, Hildrup, Ttirner, King, Watguer, Mc("(.)V, Wa6hburn, Medill, Wlicaton, Merriam, Wilson, Moore,. Wri-ht-39. Abbott, Aiider,s(.)n, Anthony, Brownitig, Cameron, Ctiry, Cliurch, Cody, Co(,Ibaugh, Cross, .Ellis, English, Forman, TEAS. McDowell, Peirce, Ross, Sharp, Truesdale, Benjamin, Cuininings, Eldredge, F(-)x, ; Htty,. TJnderwood, Vandeventer, wait, Well*;. Whitt'ng-15. 168 COSJUTOA COYXTO THRD essary in this article-that the danger is that the Legislature and the courts in their construction of sections six and seven may construe themn as a limitation, andn therefore the oblject which this Convention aims at, which is to tax bank prop erty as much as any other property, may be defeated. I do not know that banking property is any better than any other property, or bankers any better than other men. They are just as good, of course. I wish to see their property taxed like other property. As this subtject is already provided for, as I understatid, in section tio of the arti cle on revenue, I could not vote for section six, and shall not be able to vote for section seven. I wish to treat all propertyof this kind, so far as taxation is concerned. just alike. I have confidenceenough in the chairman of the Committee on Revenue [Mr. Hay] to believe that his construction of his re port and this report taken t(gether, is correct. I am sorry that section six was adopted, and I hope that section seven will inot be. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore (Mr. Allen, of Crawford, in the chair).'Ihe question is upon concurring with the action of the Committee of the Whole in striking out section seven. Mr. SEDGWICK. Mr. President: I call for the yeas and nays. The y eas anid naiys were ordered. The Secretary proceeded to call the roll. Mr. WASHBURN (when his name was called) said: Mr. President: I wish to say, by leave of the Convention, just one word. The effect of this section will probably be to c)llect double taxes or to colle.t taxes twice on all deposits, and for that reason I vote "Aye." The result was then announced-yeas, SFc. 1. No State bank shall hereafter be created, nor shall the State own or loe liable for any stock in any corporalien, or joint stock company or association for banking purposes, now created or to be hereafter created. Mr. McDOWELL. I move to strike out all after "created." The motion was not agreed to. Section one was agreed to. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore (Mlr. Allen, of Crawf,rd, in the cleai). The question is upon the adoption of section two. The Secretary read section two, as fol. lows: SE~c. 2. No act of the General Assembly authorizing or ceeating corporations or associations, with banking powers, whether of issue, deposit or disc, unt, nor amendments thereto, shall go into effect or in any miianner be in force, unless the same shall he submiitted to a vote of the people at the general election next succeeding the passague of the same, and be approved, by a nmaj,)rity of all the votes cast at such election for or against such law. The yeas and nays were ordered, and, being taken, resulted-yeas 43, nays 12 -as follows: m e if w D ther we no other objetion, on that account alone the section should be rejected. Therefore, I am in favo r of the report of the Committee of the Whole on that suitject. Let us not do anything by which th e people can say we have legis latnpd in favor of the national banyas, or crippled privat e banking business for their benefit. 3Ir. TING,HER. Mr. President: May I ask the gentleman- are you not in favor of taxing these banks ar o ther property is taxed? oLr. WAIT. I am, Mr. President. Mtr. TINCHvER. That, Mr. President, is a ll t his section proposes. Olr IT M. OAIT. tr President: I am op posed to having a special s ection on those private banks. Let them be taxed as other property is taxed, and not select them out for invidious dis Ctnction, o r what maty seem such a distinctin). They have bec(,me an institution in our State, that have sprung up from the wants of the people. They are legitimate and useful and should not be subject to unfriendly leg, islation, but stand upon the same basis as other taxable property. Mr. UNDERWOOD, Mr. President: It occurs to me that this article, and pir ticula.rly this section, is too much in fa vor of existin,g banking institutions in this State. Banks and corporations, by this definition, include banks of issue, of deposit, and of discount, insurance compauies, and other chartered companies, with bankiug houses. Our supreime court has decided that natiotnal batiks organized under act of Coi gress, are subject to our State laws of taxation. That decision was taken to the supreme court of the United States, and reversed, because we had to conform to the -national law in reference to banks of that class. An extra session of the Legislature was required to amend our law for taixilg such banks. In this State we have private banks, insurance companies, and banks of disc count and deposit. In these batiks, accordintg to section three, stockholders are only liable to the extent of the stock. I think the publicinterest requires the encouragetmert of private ban ks, because the private banker is responsible to the extent of all his property fear every do;lar-deposited ~with him. One of these corp,,rjtion bankers- is responsible only to the extent of his stock. I think that if the private bank is made subject to the same laws as every other mana or corporation in the State, where there is no special law, that is puttisjg it in the best shape we can. Let it be sub ject to general law, but let uls not put in a preyisdOn subjectin~g the private banker to exactly the same contro>l, with ref,*-rence to taxatio~n~ as we would these public banks which have peculiar rights anid privileges. Let him stand on his common lavw rights and obligatioens, aned his property be subject to taxation like than of any other individual w ho has only common law rights. Mr. P.AR"KS. Mr. President: If I understood the argument of the gentle man from Sangamnlo [Mtr. Hay]} it was that the sutbjects of taxation embraced in sections six andi seven of this report onI banks and currency were already covered by the Committee Jon Revertke and therefore no provisions of this sort were nee ABSENT, OR NOT VOTING.. Allen of Alx'n, Church, Poage, Allen of Crf'd, Cody, Rice, Anthony, Craig, R,obinson, Archer, HIankins, Sceiolfied, Atkins, Hanna, SMiriner, Bowmnan, Htart, Sutherland, Bron well, N eedle, Wall, Brown, Perley, Wendling, Bryan, Pillsbury, Mr. President-28. Buxton, So section two was agreed to. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore (Mr. Allen), of Crawfitrd, in the chair). The questio,n is upon the third section. The Secretary read section three, as follows: SEC. 3. Every stockholder in a banking corporation or institution shall be itidividually responsible and liable to its creditors, over and above the amo,unt of stock by him or her heid, to an amount equal to Lois or her respective shares so held, fi,r all its liabilities, accruing while he or she remains such stockholder. Mr. WASHBURN. I move to strike out frthm the word "over," in the second lithe, to the word "held," in the third line. Mr. WELLS. Which word does the genitlemiian mean, Mr. Chairman? The PRESIDENT, pro tempore (M/Ir. AlIeL), of Crawford, in the chair). It is the last word in the third line. Mr. HAINES, of Cook. Mr. Chairman: I would like the section read as amended. The Secretary read section three, as proposed to be amended by Or. Wash - burn, as follows: NAYS, Forman, Parker, Goodell, Sedg wick, Hainfes of LakeSherrill, Harwood, ~ Snyder, Hildrup, Tincher, Kinig, Turner, E(g Mcoy, Wagner, Meal dill, Wheaton,. Moore, Wilson-27. ABSENT, OR NOT VOTING. Allen of Alex. Craig, Pillsbury, Allen of C'td. Gamble, Poage, Archer, Haineq of CookRice, Atkins, Hankins, robinson, Bowman, Hart, Setholtfield, Bromwell, Hanna, Skinner, aBrown, Merriam, Wall, Brvan, Neece, Wells, Buxto n, Peirce, Mr. President-28. Church, So the Converition agreed1 to the recommenldation of the Committee of the Whole to strike out section seven. The PRESIDENr, pro tempore (Mr. Allen, of Crawf,rd, in the chair). Tihe question is upon the adoption of the first sectutrn. The Secretary read section one, as follows: 1686 CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION T-UURSDAY) Y]MAS. Goodhue, Sharp, Hainei ofcook, Stierritl, Hain, — of L'k.,Siiyder, H., wood, Springer, Hildrup, Tinciier, Kiiig, Tubt)s, McCoy, Turti er, McDowell, Vandeventer, Medill, Wagner, Merriam, Wait, Moore, Wtshburn, Parker Wheaton, Parks, Wilson, Sedgwick, Wright-43. Abbott, Anderdon, Bayne, Be'amin, ni Cary, Coolbaugh, Crt)ss, Cutyimings, Dement, Eldredge, Ellis, Eriglisb, Fuller, Gaiii ble, Goodell, NAYS. Browning, Cameron, Forman, Fox, ][Tay, ]Hayes,! Peirce, Ross, Truesdale, Un(ierwood, Wells, Whiting-12. 8, uays 27-as follows: YEAS. Antbony, Bayne, BeDjamin, Bi-o wuing, Cody, Cross, Cummings, Fox, Fuller, Goodhue, Hay, Ba,yes, McDowell, Par.ks, Perley, I Si.r Sprit)ge'r, SutJaerlo.nd, Truesdale, Tubbs, Underwooa, Vandeventer, Wait,, Wa.,:hburn, Wendling, WhitinL,. Wright:L28. Abbott, A.tiaer.son, Cameron, Cary, Clt)oibaugh, Dement, Eldredge, Ellie,, English, MA1Y 5, 1870. DEBATES AND PR()CEEDINGS. 1687 e formity with the rule laid down by our ~, supreme court. r Mr. PARKS. Mr. President: Wett d I want toe under stand from these gent le - men is this: What is the reaso n that any u kind of property invested i n batik s can - not be taxed under the general principles e embraced in the revenue article, just as 0 well as any other property? y What is the use of havis g several are titles on the same point providing for the eaxation of property invested in banks, e or anything else? It does seem to me, s sir, that this is legislating unnecessarily. We ought to have, somewhere in this Constitution, a few general principles providing for the taxation of all sorts of - property, real and personal, wherever in. vestf d, held or deposited. And, it seems - to me, the chairmen of these two commit tees, the Committees on Revenue and , Banks, ought to explain this matter, if - they can, to the satisfaction of the Con venition. Mr. HAINES, of Cook. Mr. Presi denat: As I understand the amendment of my colleague [Mr. Anthony], it is that national bank shares shall be taxed ? differently from other property. I do not think that their shares should be taxed differently. In Chicago, the banaks have been assessed at the full value of their stock, while other property has been assessed at one-third of, its value. Mr. HAY. The Committee of the Whole having struck out section six, and the Convention having refused to concur in that amendment, there would seem to be no recourse for those who are opposed to the adoption of this section, but to vote against it The PRESIDENT, pro tempore (,iSr. Allen, of CrawIfrd, in the chair). The question is first upon the amendment offtred by the gentleman from Cook [Yfr. Anthony] Mr. HAY. Mr. President: I hope the section will not be adopted, even if the amendment is made, because I do not think it is needed. I think the point is fuilly covered by the revenue article, and that any attempt of the sort here pro posed will only complicate the matter. Mr. TINCHER. Mr. President: If the gentleman from Sangamon [Mr. Ha,y] is satisfied that the article he refers to the revenue article-covers the case as to banks anld banking associations, and is sufficient to base legislatio~n upton, so as to make such institutions pay taxes, I am satisfied.. Mr. HAY. I think it does, Mr. Presidenlt. Mr. TINCHER. Then I move, M~r. President, that section sian be stricken out. The P:RESIDENTr, pro temprer (M~r. Allen, of Crawvfivrd, in the cheelr). The question is upon the motion to strike nut section six ; be assessed on other monied capital in t Li - hands of individuals in this State. N o u s the ()ld system of taxing banks and thei capital stock, was this: If a bank had a capi'al stock of $500,000, a deduction was-allowed for certain things, and then a tax was levied on the balance. To itl lustrate: if $50,000 were taken out, tht levy and assessment were oni $450,00( under the system which was devised by that act, when it was decided by the United States supreme court that the bantik capital could not be taxed, because the capital was made up of United States bonds. It was then decided that tihe shares of the shareholders should be taxed at a nominal par value of tie shares, because i f taxed as other proper ty, as persoual property fbr instance, we would get throughout this State only o,ne third ot the tax. To illustrate: supposing the banking capital of the State of Illinois is $9,000, 000, and supp,sing throughout this State it were only assessed as other property,at one third its value. It will be seen at once that we collect taxes upon only $3, 000,000, and leave the $6,000,000 untaxed. In the case of McVegh, in which slime of the bankers of Chicago were interested, the national banks contended that their property should be taxed the same as other property. The supreme court, however, decided in that case, that bantik capital ought not to be asse'ssed as other property for the reasons I have stated. They say, after quoting the various provisions tof the law, that - It is quite apparent that owners of bank shares under the system inaugurated by this act, were not intended to be placed on the same loo)ting with owners of other personal property. The object of the act was to supply the place of a system which had been overturned by a decision of the supsreme court ot the United states in Bradley's case. ,See 49 III. p. 828. Again they say on page 329: In view of this legislation, it must be ap. parent that a system of taxation for bank shares was designed peculiar to itself, and independent of the general revenue system of the State. So that if the section should be left here just as reported, it changes eintirely the present system of taxing bank shares. The reasons for adopting the new system are fully set fo(rth by the supreme court, and I need Jiot repeat them. By the jaw of 1867 the national banks would have to) pay taxes only in the manner that other monied capital is taxed, uo that if the system should obtain of assessing property at one third its value, the national banks, under this section, would be assessed only at one third their value, and the State would lose the taxes upon two-thirds of all the batik stock inl the State. That is my reasoni for moving this amendment, so that it will confbrm to the law of 1867. We do not tax bank stock the same as we do a wagon or a horse. The wagti depreciates in value, but bank stock, if properly managed, increases ill valule. We havse bank stock in Chicago to-day that is worth over one hundred per cent, while, in many parts nof the State to day, the national bank stock is assessed at one-third its value. I call the attention of the Convention to this poin:t for the purpose of putting this section in such shape that the bank islg capital of the State shall be assessed as other monied capstal,.and in con Salc. 3. Every s to ckhold er in a banki corpo)r ation or institution shall be ir-divid ally r, sponsible and reliable to its credits for all its liabilities, accruing while he she remains such Stockholder. Thie yeas and nays were ordered, at being taken, resulted-yeas 11, nays 44as foll(jws: NAYS. Goodhue, Harwood, Hay, Hayes, Hildrup, Medlll, Merriam, Moore, Parker, Parks, Ross, Sedgwick, Sharp, Sherrill, ABSENT, OR NOT VOTING. Allen of Alex.,Cary, Pillsbury, Allen of Crffd.,Craig, Poage, Anderson, Cummings, Rice, Antlit)ny, F,)rman, Robinson, Arcthel, Hankins, Schofield, At,kins, Hannta, Skinner, Bowitan, Hart, Wendling Brotijwell, Neece, Wait, Bro w u, Perley, Mr. President-28. Bryan, So the amend ment offered by Mr. Wash burn t o secti on three was not agreed to. The PRESIDENIT, pro tempore (Mr. Allen, of Crawford, in the chmnir). The ques tion r ecurs on th e adoption of the section. Stiction three was agreed to. The PRESIDENT pro tempore (Mr. Allen, of Crawford in the chair). The question recurs on the adoption of section four, which the Secretary will read, The Secretary read section four, as fol. lows: Sp.c. 4. The suspension of specie payments by banking institutions, on their circulation, created by the laws of this State, shall never be permitted or sanctioned. Section four was agreed fo. The PRESIDENT', pro tempore (Mr. Allen, of Crawtfbrd, il the chair). The question recurs on the adoption of section five. The Secretary read section five, as follows: SEC. 5. Every banking association, now or which inay hereafter be organized under the laws ot this State, shall mtke, and publish a full and accurate quarterly statement of its affairs (which shall be certified to under oath by owe or more of its officerst), as may be provided by law. Sectioti five was agreed to. Thie PRES!DENF, pro tempore (Mr. Allen, Of Crawfi)rd, in the chalu). The questio)n recurs on the adoption of sectio; I six. The Secretary read section six, as follows: rF SEc. 6. The actual paid up capital of any ,uch asg,)ciatiotn shall be taxed in the same mannier as other property. .Ar. AN IHOIN Y. Mr. President: I move to aunend try insertilg after "other," in the second line, these words: "manried capital." I will state my rea sons for movilng this amendment. The law passed in 1867 at a special session, requires that the shares of national batik stock held in this State shall bens ses,eed at no greater rate than is or may YEA S. Goodhue, Sherrill, Haines ofCook,Sutherland, Hay, Tincler, Hayes, Truesdale, Medill, Turner, McDowell, Underwood, Parks, Va,,deventer, Peirce, Wait, Rice, Wells, Ross, VWheaton, Sharp, Whiting-33. YEAS. Abbott, Haines of LakeUnderwood, Buxton, Mc(','oy, Wa,,ihburn, Ellis, McDowell, Wilson-11. Rainei of CookPeirce, Bayne, Ben.jainin, Br(,wtiiijg, Canieron, Cilui-Ch, Cody, Coo[I)augh, Cro,,s, Detitent Eldredg, Efiglisil, Fox, Fuller, Gani 1) I e, Goodell, Snvder, Springer, Sutherland, Tincher, Truesdale, Tubbs, Turner, Vandeventer, Wagner, W,t I 1, Wells, Wheaton, Whiting, Wright-44. The yeas and nays were ordered, aDd beiig taken, resultedyeas, 33, uays, 23 -as follows: Anthony, Bayue, Benjamin, Brt)wDing, Buxton, Cody, Coolbaugh, Curnmings, Eldredge, Fox, Goodell, 1688 COSTIT TIONAL COVETJO TflURst)AY, Sg idgment, lead to embarrass,ment in the future action of the Convenition. CtMr. ROSS. I unders,tod it was the desire of the Convention to have the Conistitution enrolled in parchment, and, if so, it would take some days to do it. If we get through with other business, we will have to remain here several days, so as to get it enr,,lled. We watnt tl, get ready for an adjournment at an early day. Mr. ALLEN, of Crawford. It will not take us so long. We could get sufficient enrolling force to do it in a few hours. Mr. ROSS. It would be better if done by one ma~n. Mr. ALLEN, of Crawfo,rd. I do not know what difference it can make, as each article will be enrolled, and will fiurm a provision (of its own. There is no necus sity for one man performiiig all this la. bor. I have known a half dozen clerks oil a single bill. I Mr. ROSS. I propose that to morrow morniiig, at half past nine o'clock, we take up the report of the Committee on Revisiin and Adjustment so far as they lhave ret)()rtud. The PRESIDENT. There has been no report of the Committee up(oi Revision and Adjustment made to the Conven tion. Mr. CODY. Mr. President: I would say that the Committee upon Revision and Adjustment are laborin,g every night until about eleven o'clock, and have laid t-upon the tables cf membeirs copies of the wt ork as it is completed, that it may be examitined fo)r the purpose of preparing themselves when the report ciomts in to act at once and understandiingly. The committee have had under coi~:sid erstion, thie idea of reporting uponI a por. tion of the articles to-day- or to iior. rgu nw A report hasbhbeeaf delaye d d s ir the reason that we though t perhaps thiere miigli[ be amtonjg the,smaller articietisee ticios which wGe shousb desire to pi ac e p ein the legishative, or some (,ther article. But a repe't of that portion of the weorlk w tlihch is done will be made at a o f ry early day. Trhe committee are using extraordinary (ff,.rts to so) comiplete its latbors as n,,t to delay the Conivenition as to its final ad,& jo)urbment._.. Mr. ROSS. Mr. President: I will NA.YS. Gamble, Sedgwick, ainies of Lake,Sn)hd er, Harwood, Spring,er, King, T ub6bs', McCoy, Wagner, Me-rriam, W,ashbburn, Moor.e, Wright —23. Parker, AB$11NT, OR NOT VOTING. Allen of Alx'n,Cary, Allen of Cwf'd,Craig, Anderson, Fuller, Are i cer,, Wilankins, Atkins, Hanna, Bow vtitanl, -it rt~, Bromwell, I-ildirup, Brown, Neece, Bryan, Perley, S,g the motion ofR Mr TiP tchef to strike out sectri,i b six was agreed to. Trhe PRESIDENT, pro tempo)re (,Mr. Allso, of C rawfoir, d id the chair). The questi on is on the adoption of section eight. Thi-e, Secretary read section eight, as follows: Sr~c. 8. Ifa general bankin g law t shall be enacted, it shall provide rar the registry and cointersitcik g, by an officer ofSt ate, of all bills ode r cred it, designe d to circulate as money, r anid rt qu ire security to the full amour her h eof, to be deposited with the State Frea-urer, ini United states or illinois State stokeks, to be rated at ten per cent. below their par value; and in ea,,e (,f a dep~reciatioc of said i tocks to the asount o f te n per cent. on wihe dollar below par, the bank or banjks, owning,aid stocks shall be required to makec up said d,:ficieDcy, by dep(,;,iting additi,o))al stocks. And said law tshall also p rovide, for the recording of the names ot all srtockhiolders in such corp~orations,thie amo)unt of stock -feld by each, the time of trilinsfer and to whom. ,:t,neight was agreed to. MVr. FORM.NAN. Mir. President: I move to strike ouit all the articte except sections onie aL~d two,. The PRES'IDENt' pro tempore (MNr. Alle,,), of Crawf'(ind, in thle chad'i). The 1i~i)iis F,(t ili a order, as the Conventl:ion has just adopted it. M~r. "ri.N,:JHIER. MrN. President: I mo-ve thiat tthe article bec refe'rred to the Cmite(:-)nteisi o and, Adj ustmenit. 'Thec ii(~tio;.i was,igreedi to, [The foil)hwi. -g is thie ariticle as referred to tile Commi,.tee, on Revision and Ad BECTIO., 1. No State bank shall hereafter be created, nor shaill the State own or be liab~le lor any sto~ck in any corporati.on or joint stock company or asoito,for bankins I~ipurpo,e, now created or to be hereafter cream ed. ,8yc. 2. No act of the General Assembly aUtr hom,zing or cresting corpora-tion)s or at.sso rain,with bankling powers, whether of issue, dep-osit or diecount.t n)or amlendmients there to,,still go into effe~ct or ini itan mannr be in fi,rce, unless the same~ shall be suibmiitted to at vo,'e of thle pe~:,,ple at thle general election next sueceeding the ts age, ot tile ~aine, an~d be applrtivtd t-)y at maj,,rity of all the votes cast at csu(.h election f,, or against such law. ;31c. 3. Every stockhol,deri ini a ban~kinig corporation or institution tsh-all be inidividu~tlly re,-,pfnsitble, and'!bmto its creditors, .over and above the amount of stock by him or her field to ant amnount e-qual to his,)r herrespective shares go held, for all its liabilities ~accriuig while he or shec remains such stockhiolder. REVIrION AND ADJUSTMENT. Mr. ROSS. Mr. President: With a view to an early adjourrment of the Convention, it appears to me we should take some taction in relation i i to the repoirt of the Committee on Revision and Adjustment, so as to get that up and have the Constitution in prtncess of beh i ag enrolled. If we go on with this other busiiess, and leave that to the last, we will have to wait here several days, tb in order to have the Constitution enroll ed.'u' I would suggest that we begin at once with the report of the Revision Com reittee, anid di,-pose,of it, so that it can be enrolled by the, time we gelt through w ith our business, which, I trust, will be early next week. , i Mr. ALLEN, of Crawford. I would suggest to the genilenan that he had betttir wait until -e get thrtugh with the body of the work, fir the r(ason that th e Conimittee on Revislim and Adjustment have made reports upon some articles agreed upon by the Convetition, but it may be that in the interim between the present and the adjourntent, there niay be other provisitns which will want to be placed in some one of the articles up. on which we have acted. Take, for instance, the present special order —tnat of homestead exemption. It may be that it would beproper to put it in a separate article, or i't might- be thought best to incorporate it into one of the,other articles. The same may be the case with other questions upon which we are to ac t, andi to undertake to settle definitely what should go into a particular article, and have it enrolled now, might, in my CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION TiiURSI)A.Y, 1683 Abb,)tt, Caiiieron, Churth, Crt)ss, Deinent, Ellis, English, ForiiiaD, Pillsl)ury, P()Age, Robitison, Scholfield, Skiijuer, Wall, . Wendling, Wilson, Mr. Pre,-ident-27. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. without the consent of the wife, to be ob tained in such manner as shall be provided by law. SEC. -. There shall be in like manner and for a like purpose, exempt from all forced sales, not less than five hundred dollars worth of personal property and household effects of every householder, being the head of a family, for the use of such famlily, and after his ab s ence, desertion or death, for his wife or widow and minor children. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon concurrence with the Committee of the Whole in the first amendment, by which the words, "the General Assembly shall by law," were stricken out from the first line, and the words, "there shall be," in s erted; and it will be declared concur red in. Mr. ABBOTT. Mr. President: I de sire to state on behalf of my constituents in Scott county, that there seems to be among them a general disapprobation of the extra thousand dollars exempted in the homestead article, as adopted in Committee of the Whole, and they hope the Convention will, before its final adjournment, restore it to the original one thousand dollars. The PRESIDENT. A motion: to that effect will be in order shortly. Mr. MERRIAM. Mvr. President: Would it be in order to offer a substitute? The PRESIDENT. It is not in order at the present stage. The question is upon concurrence in the second amendment, by which, in the second line, the words, "and from," were inserted after the word "courts;" and it will be declared concurred in. The question is on the third amendme nt, by which was inserted in the third line, after the word "State," the words, "where the cause of action shall accrue after the adoption of this Constitution;" and it will be declared concurred in. The question is on concurring in- the fourth amendment, by which, in the fourth line, the word "one" was stricken out and the words, "not less than two," inserted. Mr. FOX. I call for the yeas and nays upon that. The yeas and nays were ordered, and being taken, resulted-yeas 18, nays, 35as follows: ring the expense of printing two hundred copies. I move to lay the motion to print upon the table. Mr. CAMERON. Mr. President: They have not been printed. The gentleman is laboring un-decr a mistake. Mr. HAINES, of Cook. Mr. President: I have not seen a single report printed as passed by the Convention. I do not believe one has been printed. Mr. ALLEN, of Crawford. All the articles passed by the Convention before the adjournment were printed during the vacation. The legislative article was printed, also all the articles that had passed the Convention and all the articles that had been passed by the Committee of the Whole The PRESIDENT. The question is on the motion (of the gentleman from Cook [Mr. Cameron]. Mr. SEDGWICK. Mr. President: I call for the yeas and nays. Mr. HAINES, of Lake. iMr. President: I would sugg-est to amend, so as to apply to all that have not been printed. Mr. CAMERON. Mr. President: I have no objection to that. The PRESIDENT. The Secretary will make the change. The yeas and nays were ordered, and, being taken, resulted-yeas, 21, nays 32 — as follows: ABSENT, OR NOT VOTING. Allen of Alex.,Craig, Poaze. Archer, Gamble, Rice Atkins, Haines of Lake,Scholfield, Bowman, Hanna, Snyder, Bromwell, Hart, Skinner, Brown, McDowell,' Wait Bryan, Medill, Wall, Buxton, Neece, Wendling, Church, Perley, Wheaton, Cody, Pillsbury, Mr. President-30. So the motion of Mir. Cameron, as amended, was not agreed to. HOMESTEAD EXEMPTION. The PRESIDENT. The special order for th e ho ur is the rep ort of the Committee of the Whole o n th e homestead article, and the ques tion is upon concurrence with amendments. [The r ep or t is as follows]: SECTION -. The re sha ll be exemp t f rom t heliensofj udgments and decrees of co urts and f rom f orced sales un der any process or order of any court of law or equity in this State where cause of a c tion shall accrue after the adoption of this Corstitution except for the non-payment of taxes, or for a debt incurred for the purchase or improvement thereof, a homestead of the value of not less than two thousand dollars, to every householder being the head of a family. Such exemptions to continue after the desertion or death of such head of the family, for the benefit of his wife or widow, and minor children. Such home stead shall not be alienated by the husban~ 423 ABSENT, OR NOT VOTING. Allen of Alex.,Church, Pillsbury, Anthony, Craig, Poage, Archer, Eldredge, Scholfield, Atkins, Gamble, Snyder, Bowman, Hanna, Skinner, Bromwell, Hart, Wall, -4 Brown, McDowell, Wendling, Bryan, Neece, Wheaton, Buxton, Perley, Mr. President-29 Cary, Peirce, NAYS. Abbott, Goodell, Allen of Crfd., Goodhue, Anderson, TIarwood, Bayne, Hay, Benjamin; Hildrup, Coolbaugh, King, Cross, Mediill, Ellis, Merriam, English, Moore, Forman Parks, Fox, Rice, Fuller, Sedgwick, So the fourth amendment of the Committee of the Whole, by which-the word 1689 MAY 5, 1870. ,(one" in the fourth line was stricken out, and the words "-not less than two" in serted, was not agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the fifth amendment to the fifth line, by which was inserted after the word "householder," the words, "being the head of," the word "having" being stricken out, and it will be declared concurred in. The question is next upon the sixth amendment to the sixth line, by which the word "householder" was stricken out, and "head of a family" inserted, and it will be declared concurred in. By the next amcedme-nt to the section all the words after'la-nd',' in the sixth line were stri.clen out, and the words "minor children" inserted, and the words "such homestead shall not be alienated by the husband without the consent of the wife, to be obtained in such manner as shall be provided by law;" and the amendme-nt will be declared concurred in. Tlie-iaext amendment is to the first line of the second section, the words, "the L,-gislature shall," were stricken out, and the words "there shall be" inserted. The sccond amendment to the second section is to strike out after the word "sales," in the second line, "a reasonable amount," and insert "not less than five hundred dollars worth." The yeas and nays were ordered, and, being taken, rlsulted-yeas 23, nays 31 -as follows: YEAS. Anthony, Benjamin, Cameron, Cary, Coolbaugh, Dement, Forman, Fox, AICCOY, Fuller, Truesdale, Goodhue, Turner, Raines of CookU-nderwood, Harwood, - Wells, Hay' Whiting,' Hayes, - Wright-21. YEA'$. Springer, Traesdale, Turner, Underwood, Wagner, Whiting, Wright-23. Benjamin, Kinz. Cody, mco,6y, Cummi"gs, Merriam, Dement, Parker, Haines of CookRobinson-I Haines of LakeRoss, Hankins, Bed-wick, Hayes, Sh'rill, NAYS. NAYS. Abbott, I-la-nkins, Allen of Crwfd,Hildrup, Anderson, King, Bayne, Merriam, Browning, Moore, Cross, Parker, Cummings, Parks, Eldredge, Peirce, Ellis, Robinson, English Ross, Goodell, Sedgwick, Sharp, Sherrill, Springer, Sutherland, Tincher, Tubbs, Vandeventer, Wagner, Waihburn, Wilson-32. Abbott, Fox, Allen ofCrwfd,Fnller, Anderson, Goodell, Bayne,. Goodhue, Browning,. Harwood, Cameron, Ray, Coolbaugh, Hildrup, Cross, Medill, Ellis, Moore, English. Parks, . Forman, Rice, Sharp, Butlierland, Tincher, Tubbs, Vandeventer, Wait, Wasliburn, Wells, Wilson-31. YEA$. Cody, Hankins, Cummings, Hayes, Demnt, McCoy, Eldredze. Parker, H._ines otCookRobinson, Haines of LakeRoss, Turner, Underwood, Wagner, Wells, Whiting, Wright-18. Sharp' Sherrill, Springer, S.th",I..d, Tincher, Truesdale, Tubbs, Vaiideventer, Washburir, Wheaton, Wilson-35. So the second amendment of the Committee of the Whole to section two, was not agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the third amendment, which is to strike out from the fourth line, the word "family," and insert "minor children." The amendment was agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The qup.upon the fourth amendment was stricken from the fourf' following language: "A of the husband shall against the sep, — wi'fe, holden I — this State." The P — ,&BSF,NT, OR NO Allen of Alex.,Came-ron, Anthony, Cary, A.rcher, Church, Atkins, Craig, Bowman, Gamble, Bromwell, Hanna, Brown, Hart, Browning, McDowell Bryan,, Neece, Buxton, Perley, VOTING. Peirce, . Pillsbury, Poa,-e, SchiY]Aeld, Skinner, Snyder, Wait I wall, Wendling, Mr. President-30. 16O ()OSTITUTIONAL COVETION THURSDAY, TMr. RICE. Mr. President: I have just stated that as my judgment-that the Legislature provided already under the present Constitution, which contains no such provision, for the exemption of homesteads and the exemption of this amount of property. There has been no complaint on that subject. I think that it is one of that class of subjects that the Legislature can be safely trusted with, and our past experience shows that to be the case. But the reason why I prefer the proposition of the gentleman from Crawford [Mr. Allen] to that of the report, is that it is simply a declaration of general principles, and comes as near saying nothing upon the subject as one can get and say anything at all. It simply declares that the Legislature shall provide for the ex o emption of homesteads, without specifying any particular sum. I think it is a mistaken piece of philanthropy to provide that twenLy-five hundred dollars shall be exempt from execution, for we thereby reduce the credit of limited property holders to that extent, and many men who are thought to be benefited by it, will be found to be injured, when a limited amount of credit would aid very much in the prosecution of their business,- which they cannot obtain unless they have property in their hands liable for their debts. While the debtor might be honest, the creditor would not insure the life of the debtor when he knows that he cannot reach his property. I think there has been no other proposition that has been more unsatisfactory to the public than that to exempt two thousand dollars on the homestead and five hundred dollars on personal property. The complaint does not only come from the creditor, but from the debtornot only from the rich, but from the poor. We all know that what may be a reasonaIble amount now, may not be anything like it one-quarter of a century hence. It may be that, in a period of ten or fifteen years, that will be too much. But it is purely legislation, and very special legislation at that. If anything is to go into this Constitution upon the subject of homesteads, I hope that nothing more specific will be adopted than the proposition of the gentleman from Crawford [Mr. Allen], which recognizes and imposes the duty upon the Legislature to provide reasonable exemption. As I have remarked, I think it is a work of supererogation to place anything in the Constitution at all about it. The sub ject is entirely safe in the hands of the Legislature. ohr. HAINES, of Cook. Mr. President: Is the proposition amendable? otThe PRESIDENT. It is. sMr. HAINES, of Cook. Mr. President: I move to strike out from the proposition all after the word "taxed." The Secretary read that portion of the section proposed to be stricken out by Mr. Iaines, of Cook, as follows: Or for debt incurred for the purchase or improvement thereofe Mr. HAINES, of Cook. As I understand, it leaves the Legislature to fix the exemption. Mr. KING. I would like to have the substitute of the gentleman from Crawford [Mr. Allen] read. The Secretary read the substitute of fered by Mr. Allen, of Crawford, as follows: The General Assembly shall provide by law for the exemption of homesteads (to every householder the head of a family) from frced sales on execution, process or order of any court of law or equity except for non-payment of taxes, or for debts incurred for the purchase or improvement thereof. Mr. KING. Mr. President: I am in favor of the substitute just r ead. When I went home during the recess, I found that the people, so far as I had conversed with them, not objecting to any proposi tion in the Constitution, as far as we had advanced, except this in regard to homesteads, and on that subject, the exemption of $2,000 was universally disapproved. I do not agree with the gentleman from Montgomery [Mr. Rice] that the control ofthis matter should be left entirely with the Legislature without constitutional provision. I hold this to be the true doctrine-and I do not know whether any other gentleman has the same opinion-that the Legislature of this State cannot pass any law for the government of the people of this State, unless we give them a constitutional provision authorizing them to do so. i am in favor of placing something in the Constitution authorizing the legislative body of the State to provide a reasonable homestead, but I am not willing to go as far as the proposed amount-$2,000, neither am I in favor of $1,000. Let the Legislature provide a reasonable homestead, whether it be val ued at $1,000, $800 or any other amount. Mr. ROSS. Mr. President: I am in favor of the principle of a homestead ex emption. I think it no more than right that a homestead should be so secured to every head of a family, that it cannot be taken from them by creditors. But, in asmuch as by the action of the Conven tion we have limited the Legislature to a homestead of $2,000, I am not in favor of the section as it now stands. I would rather adopt the provision of the gentle man from Crawford [Mr. Allen], or leave it entirely in the hands of the Legisla ture, believing they will reflect the views and wishes of the people upon this sub. ject, and that there is no danger of their going back on a question of this kind. Public sentiment is running in that direction that the homestead of a familly shall not, on account of the indiscretion, intemperance or misfortune of the head of the family, be'taken from the wife and children to satisfy any debt. I regard it as a just principle to be applied in legislation, or in the Constitution either, but as it is limited to $2,000, I would prefer leaving it with the Legislature. Mr. HAY. There is no limitation there. It says "not less than $2,000." Mr. ~IAYES. It fixes it at $2,000. Mr. ROSS. The machinery by which this is carried out in the Constitution may not meet the emergencies that may arise from time to time in the land. If. it were one of those questions which did not commend itself to favorable consideration at the hands of the Legislature, then there would be a propriety in making a constitutional provision commandirg them; but as it is ~ne of those provisions the representatives of the people sympathize with and will cheerfully carry out, without a mandatory provision in the Constitution, as the Legislature has legislated wisely, in relation to homesteads and extemptions, in the past) it may safely be trusted in the s~uture. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the adoption of the first section, as ame nded in Committee of the Whole. The Secretary read section one, as follows: SEC. 1. There shall be exempt from the liens of judgments and decrees of courts, and from forced sales under any process or order of any court of law or equity in this State, where the cause of action shall accrue after the adoption of this Constitution, except for non-payment of taxes or for a debt incurred for the purchase or improvement thereof, a~ homestead of the value of nut less than two thousand dollars, to every householder being the head of a family. Such exemptions to continue after the desertion or death of such head of the family, for the benefit of his wife, or widow and minor children. Such home stead shall not be alienated by the husband without the consent of the wife, to be ob tained in such manner as shall be provided by law. Mr. ALLEN, of Crawford. I offer the following as a substitute for the first section: The General Assembly shall provide bylaw for the exemption of homesteads (to every householder the head of a family) from forced sales on execution, process or order of any court of law or equity in this State, except or non-payment or taxes or for debts incurred for tile purchase or improvement thereof. I am opposed to Aixing a sun certain in this article. I am in favor of an ex emption, but my judgment is that we ought not to fix a sum certain; that it is a matter which the General Assembly may, from time to time, as values increase or diminish, adapt to the condition of the country. I was opposed to the insertion of $2,000, for the reason that I had heard no complaint in my section of the State, heretofore, of the amount exempt, by the act of the General Assembly; secondly, because I did not believe that it would meet the views of the people that I represent. In mingling with them dur ing the recess, I found a very general expression of dissatisfaction at fixing the amount at $2,000. I believe all that we want to do, in reference to this, is to provide, in the organic law, a requirement that the General Assembly shall fix the amount to be exempted. They come fresh from the people and know what their views are on the subject; and if it be found under one condition of things, too high, they may reduce it, or if it be found too low, it may be increased. This substitute leaves to them the power to fix the amount that shall be thus exempted, and leaves them the settlement of the details, lunder which the law is to be executed. That, in my judgment, is better than the original section. Mr. RICE. Mr. President: My own niew is that the Legislature could be very safely trusted as under the present Constitution, with the subject of homestead exemptions, and also exemptions of personal property. There has been no complaint on that subject, and there is no provision- in the present Constitution either imposing any duty upon the Legislature in respect to it or pretending to fixs the amount of homestead exemptions. It is purely a subject of legislation. But while I say that, if anythinlg is to go into the Constitution upon this subject, the proposition offered by the gentleman from Crawford [Mr. Allen], it strikes me) is to be very much preierred to that of the committee now under consideration. Mr. PARES. Mr. President: Would it not be better to have no provision at all on the subject? ~, re I r r a 0 d y e y d y r d e I r e I I CONSTITUTIONAL CONYENTION THU.RSDA.Y, 1690 Jo , I' b, DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. Now, sir, as the Convention have struck out the minimum, and have fixed th value of the homestead at $1,000, I thirn it would be better to adopt, instead o the section as it stands, a more flexible provision like that proposed by the gen tieman from Crawford [Mr. Allen]. I believe there should be a recognition of the family relation in the Constitu tion. It seems right that the matte should have a place there. There is n spot around which the affections of the people cluster so much as around th e homestead, and for this Convention t( recognize the principle of homestead ex emption, I think is eminently proper I hope all will unite in favor of the proposition of the gentleman from Craw ford [Mr. Allen]. Mr. TINCHER. Mr. President: ] think I am safe in the statement, and ] make it because others may not have the opportunity of se) stating, th..t every gen tleman, perhaps, in this Convention, is in favor of a homestead, or at least in favor of recognizing the principle, and as the substitute offered by the geLtlemani from Crawford [Mr. Allen] recognizes the principle and leaves the application of it to the Legislature, I move the previous question. Mr. ANTHONY. Mr. President: I would suggest The PRESIDENT. All debate is out of order. The previous question is moved. A division was ordered. The Convention divided, when, there being twenty-nine in the affirmative, the motion for the previous question was agreed to, and the main question ordered. The PRESIDENT. The question is on the amendment of the gentleman from Cook [Mr. Haines], to strike out from the substitute, all after the word "taxes." The amendment was not agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is on the motion to strike out the first section and insert the substitute. The motion was agreed to. The PRESiDENT. The question is on the adoption of the substitute which has been inserted. I he Secretary read the substitute offered by Mr. Allen, of Crawford, as follows: The General Assembly shall provide by law for the exemption of homesteads, (to every householder the head of a family), from forced sales on execution, process or order of any court of law or equity in this State, except for non-payment of taxes, or for debts incurred for the purchase or improvement thereof.' iABSENT, OR NOT VOTING. e Allen of Alx'ln,Craig, Peirce, Archer, Gamble, Pillsbury, f Atkins, Hanna, Poaze, Bowman Hart, Scho6lfield, B romwell, McDowell, Skinnier Brown, Neece, Wall, Bayne, Parks, Wendling, Buxt on, Perley, Mr. President-25. Cary, So the substitute offered by hlr. Allen, of Crawford, was agreed to' The PRESIDENT. The question is on the adoption of the second section. Mr. ENGLISH. Mr. President: I move to strike out the second section. Mr. CAMERON. Mr. President: I , desire to offer a substitute for the second section. The PRESIDENT. The motion to strike out takes precedence. . Mr. ENGLISH. I withdraw the motion ; to strike out. The PRESIDENT. The motion to strike out has been withdrawn, and a subr stitute is in order. Mr. CAMERON. Mr. President: The substitute that I desire to see adopted in this article, is as follows: The foregoing section shall -not be construed so as to prevent the General Assembly ex tending this principle of exemption to others, who are not householders, heads of families. The reason why I offer the substitute is this. We are here for the purpose of forming a Constitution for the people of the whole State. In this article we are descending to class legislation of the most objectionable character. We exempt the property of two classes only in this article; first, the householder, who is the head of a family, second, his wife or wid ow, provided she has minor children. Now, the householder may possibly lose his wife and cease to be the head of a family, and under this article the moment the undertaker takes the body of his part ner the sheriff may take his dwelling. So also in the case of the widow who has minor children. She may lose her chil dren, and if that calamity befalls her, or they should leave her, or attain majority, she is at once the prey of the law, and at the mercy of the creditor. I do not think that it is the intention of the friends of this measure to have it work in this way, but the courts will be guided by the language of the article, and not by the intention of its framers. *Again, I ~tate the case of a mechanic. Hfis only property may be his tools, his only income his ability to use them, but there is no exemption for this numerous and meritorious class. It misfortune overtakes the mechanic, if sickness should come upon himn, the physician or the boarding~house keeper can take all he has in the world, aned reduce him to the condition of a pauper or a criminal. Now, I think th~is class legislation is very objectionable. This act should be extended to all classes alike. I am favorable to the principle of reasonable exemption, bult I desire to see a broader application of it, than is asserted in this article. Mr. ANTHONY. Mr. President. Perhaps the gentleman will accept an amendment, which would meet his objections, and will take the place of the first arnd second sections. I will read it. The General Assembly shall pass liberal homestead and exemption laws. AMr. CAMERON. Mr. President: I accept the amendment. I withdraw my own substitute., Mr. UNDERWOOD. Mr. President: I have had a g ood deal of embarrassment as to what acti on should be taken with ref erence to h om esteads. If we under take t o put an ything in the Constitution to make it valuable, it strikes me as ne cessary t hat the de tail s should be draw wi th som e particularity, so that the debt, or and creditor, and all parti es interested may know exactly what their rights are. The committee, therefore, endeavored to draw the details with care. But the section -has been so altered since by the Com mitte e of th e Wh ole, as to leave most of the provision s necessary to secure a homestead, to the Legislature. Perhaps, as much would be accom pl ished by simply stating, that the Gent oeral Assembly shall pass homestead and exemption laws fo the pr otection of debtors m eand t heir families, as by any ot he r set of words. If it is all left to the General Assembly, I am quite sure, in this great and generous State of Illi nois, we are not likely to go backward. If we are to put in the Constitution the simple allowance of one thousand dollars, which is not equal to what five hundred dollars was in 1851, when this homestead law was enacted, and which law has since been preserved and improved, I would much prefer to leave it to the liberal and better impulses of the great heart of the people to be represented in:the next General Assembly. In this State, a homestead should not be merely a delusion. The intention is to secure an asylum, a place of refuge, for men unfortunate on account of the disasters of time, for those who suffer misfortune in business, by improvidently going security, to which all persons are subject, in their misfortunes or declining years, for their wives and children, where in the case of the death of the husband, the wife and children can remain protected from the avarice, oppression or extortion of heartless creditors. How often the little home where the family is raised, and to which they are bound by the strongest attachments, has been sold and the family turned out upon the public to go through life in sorrow and despair! How often does a sheriff come to the house and take and sell for a trifle those cherished articles and gifts which perhaps have been handed down from generation to generation, and around which clusters a thousand hallowed associations! How often in the great free State o}f Illinois, under our laws, liberal and gen-, erous as they are, while the husband, perhaps, is drank, and the wife and children weeping, have the remorseless agents of creditors carried away from families those things so necessary to their comfort and respectability!I I believe, sir, it the Convention chocse to strike out the provisions here conltainled, it will leave the General Assembly full power to pass the necessary and proper laws. Mr. ANDERSON. Mr*. President: I move we now proceed to a vote. Mr. HATES. Mir. President: My own preference would be for a very liberal homestead provision, but as I understood that in some portions of the State serious objection had been made to fixingg a minlimum of $2,000, I have felt disposed to forego my preference, and-have made no opposition to the motion to strike out that minimum., - The yeas and nays were ordered, and being taken, resulted-yeas, 48, nays, 10 -as follows: t t t MAT 5) 1870. 1691 I Abbott, Fox, Sedgwick, Allen, of Crw'dGoodell, Sharp, Anderson, Haines'of LakeSherrill, Anthonyi Hankins, Sutherland. Bryan, Harwood, Tin Cher, Benjamin, Hay, Truesdale, Browning, Hayes, Tubbs, Church, Hifdrup, Turner, Cody, Kirig, Underwood, Coolbaugh, McCoy, Vandeventer, Cross, Medill, w er, Cummilags, Merr',a, V-9itu, Dernent, Moore Washburn, Eldredge, Rice, Wheaton, Engli8h, Robinson, Whiting, Forman, Ross, Wilson-48. NA-YS. Haines of CookSpr!Dger, Parker, eiis, Snyder, ight-10. Cameron, E"i8' F.11r' Goodh.e, 16- e)OSITTOA ()-ETO RRD upon the motion to reconsider the action of the Conv(ntion by which the first section was adopted. The motion was agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the adoption of section one. Mr. TURNER. I move to strike out the first section. The motion was agreed to. GRANTING OF DIVORCES. Mr. BROWNING. Mr. President: I believe this is the report of the Committee on Miscellaneous Subjects we have been considering. I offer the following as an additional section for adoption. fhe Secretary read the section offered by Mr. Browning, as follows: No divorce dissolving the marriage contract shall be granted except 6for adultery, or for causes which render the marriage void ab initio; and in no case shall it be lawful for the party on account of whose adultery a divorce shall be decreed, to marry again during the lifetime of the husband or wife in whose behalf such decree shall have been rendered. Mr. HAINES, of Lake. Mr. President: I move that we strike out all after the word "granted," where it first occurs. Mr. HAINES, of Cook. Mr. President: How would it then read? The Secretary read the proposition as it would stand when modified by the amendment of Mr. Haines, of Lake, as follows: No divorce dissolving the marriage c ontract shall be granted. Mr. UNDERWOOD. Mr. President: To save time, I move to lay the proposition and the amendment on the table, and call for the yeas and nays. Mr. TURNER. Mr. President: I call for a division of the question, and ask that the vote be first taken on laying the amendment on the table. The PRESIDENT. The question is on laying the amendment upon the table. The motion of Mr. Underwood, to lay on the table the amendment offered by Mr. Haines, of Lake, was agreed to. The yeas and nays were ordered, and being taken, resulted-yeas, 24, nays, 32 - as follows: The question being on the substitute offered by i1r. Althony, the yeas and nays were ordered. Mr. McCOY. Mr. President: I desire to call for a division of the questiol. Mr. ANDERSON. Mr. President: Do I understand the gentleman from Cook [Mr. Anthony] to offer his substitute as a substitute for both sections? Mr. ANTHONY. It will take the place of those sections if adopted, because, as the gentleman will see, the article provides, first, for the exemption of so much for a homestead, then goes on and specifies five hundred dollars for personal property, and then leaves the matter entirely to the General Assembly. This takes the place of both sections, because it requires the General Assembly to pass liberal homestead and exemption laws. Mr. BENJAMIN. Mr. President: Is it in order to move a reconsideration of the vote by which the first section was adopted? The PRESIDENT. A reconsideration could be moved and entered upon the journal, but no disposition of it can be made pending the present section. Mr. BENJAMIN. Then, sir, I will make the motion, and, without arguing it at all, I will just state that that section protects the homestead from forced sales onI, and leaves the head of a family at the mercy of his creditors, as far as voluntary trust deeds are concerned. Moreover, it does not protect the wife from alienation by the husband. The section ought to be perfected or stricken out. I am in favor of a liberal homestead law, and trust that the power of the Legislature will not be restricted by constitutional implication. The PRESIDENT. The motion to reconsider will be entered upon the jour nal. The question is upon the motion to strike out and insert, and the yeas and nays have been ordered. The Secretary proceeded to call the roll. The result was then announced-yeas 38, nays 18-as follows: Mr. BROWNING. Mr. President: I move the previous question. Mr. TURNER. Mr. President: If the gentleman will permit me, I would like to move an amendment with which I think the section will be carried. My amendment is to strike out the limitation. Mr. BROWNING. It is a limitation only upon the offending party. It has no, limitation upon the other. The Secretary read the additional section offered by Mr. Browning, as follows: No divorce dissolving the marriage contract shall be granted except for adultery, or for causes which render the marriage void, ab initio; and in no case shall it be lawful for the party on account of whose adultery a divorce shall be decreed, to marry again during the lifetime of the husband or wife in whose behalf such decree shall have been rendered. The motion of Mr. Browning, for the previous question, was agreed to and the main question ordered. Mr. ROSS. I call for the yeas and nays on the main question. The PRESIDENT. The gentleman is too late. The question is on the adoption of the proposition. Mr. HAINES, of Cook. Can it be divided? Mr. TURNER. Is it in order now to refer it to a committee? The PRESIDENT. The proposition cannot be divided; and it is too late to refer it to a committe i. The yeas and nays were ordered on the adoption of the section, and being taken, resulted-yeas 24, nays 35-as follows: YEAS. Abbott, Fo rman, Robinson, Allen of Crfd.,Fox, Sedgwick, Bayne,.Harwood, Sharp, Benjamin, Hay, Truesdale, Browning, Hayes, Turn er, Cameron, Hildrup, Wagner, Coolbaugh, McDowell, Wheaton, Cummings, Rice, Wilson-PA. NAYS. Anderson, Haines of CookSnyder, Anthonv, Haines of Lake,Springer, Cary,:King, Sutherland, Church, McCoy, Tubbs, Cody, Medill, Underwood, Dement, Merriam, Vandeventer, Ellis, Moore, Wait, Eldredge, Parker, Washburn, Fuller, Parks, Wells Gamble, Peirce, Whiting, Goodell, Ross, Wright-35. Goodhue, Sherrill, YEAS. Haines of C'ok,Sutherland, Haines of L'ke,Truesdale, Hay, Tubbs, Hildrup, Turner, Medill, Underwood, Merriam, Vandeventer, Moore, Wait, Parks, Washburn, Rice, Wells, Robinson, Wheaton, Ross, Whiting, Sedgwick, Wilson-38. Sherrill, ABSENT, OR NOT VOTING. Allen of Alex. Craig, Pillsbury, Archer, Cross, Poage, Atkins, English, Scholfeld, Bowman, Hankins, Skiinner, Bromwell, Hanna, Tincther, Brown, Hart, WVall, Bryan, Neece, Weidl.'n 1, Buxton, Perley,'Mr. Presidcn t-24. So the additional section offered by Mr. Browning, was not agreed to. Mr. IIAYES. Mr. President: I move that the article be referred to the Committee upon Revision and Adjustment. The motion was agreed to. [The following is the article as referred to the Committee on Revision and Adjustment:] Abbott, Fox, Robinson, Allen of Cr'fd,Gamble, Sedgwick, Anderson, Goodhue, Sharp, Bayne, Haines of Co'k,Springer, Benjamin, Harwood, Truesdale, Browning, HIay, Turner, Cameron, Hayes, Wagner Church, Hildrup, Wells Coolbaugh, McDowell, Wheaton, Cummings, Medill, Whiting-32. Forman, Rice, ABSENT, OR NOT VOTING. Allen of Alex,Cross, Pillsbury, Archer, English, Poage, Atkins, Goodell, Scholfielid, Bowman, Hankins, Skinner, Bromwell, Hanna, Tincher, Brown, Hart, Vandeventer, Bryan, Neece, Wall Buxton, Perley, Wendling Craig, Peirce, Mr. President-27. So the motion of Mr. Underwood, to lay on the table the additional section offered by Mr. Browning, was not agreed to. AB SENT, OR NOT VOTING. Allen of Alex. Coolbaugh, Peirce, Archer, Craig, Pillsbury, Atkins, English, Poage, Bowman, Forman, Scholfield, Bromwell, Hanna, Skinner, Brown, Hart, Tincher, Bryan, King, Wall, Buxton, Neece, Wendling, Mary, Perley, Mr. President-27. So the substitute offered by Mr.- Anthony for section two, was agreed to' The PRESIDENT. T4 question is CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION T.HURSDAY, 1602 YEAS. Authony, Kinz, C —y' McCoy, Cody, Merriam, Dement, Moore Eldredge, Parker, Ellis, Parks, Fuller, Ross, Haines of Lake, Sherrill, Snyder, Suthe rland, Tubbs, Underwood, Wait, Washburn, Wilson. Wrighf-24. Abbott, Anthony, Bayne, Benjamin, Browning, Cameron, Church, Eldredie, Fox, Fuller, Gamble, Goodell, ,Goodhue, WAYS. WAYS. Allen of Crlfd.,Ellls, Ander,son, Hankins, C-ody, - Harwood, Cross, Hayes, Cummings, m i2o-',i Denient, McD6-ell, Parker, Sharp,' Snyder, 8. ARTICLE Simc. 1. The General Asf3embly shall pass liberal homestead and exemption laws. ORDER OF BUSINESS. Mr. McCOY. Mr. President: I move that the Convention now take from thetable the report of the Committee of the Whole upon miscellaneote corporations MAY 5, 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1693 The PRESIDENT. There is a special shall be designated by law, which statement is before the word "amount," in the order from that committee upon the sub- shall correctly set forth the amount and grade second line, insert the word "full" of each and every kind of grain in such ware ject of warehouses, to succeed the article house, together with such other property as just disposed of. may be stored therein, and what warehouse The third amendment to the section, Mr. MlcCOY. I move then that it be receipts have been issued, and arc at the time after the word "of," strike out the word taken up immediately after the ware- of making such statement outstanding there- "the," in the third line, ani after the house question is disposed of. for; and shall on the copy'posted in thie ware- word "amount," in the same line, strike house, note dailv such changes as may be WAREIIOUSES. made in the quan~tity and grade of grain in out the word "received," and in the first The PRESIDENT. It will be so or- such war house. blank insert the word "such" an i dhere uPlESsDENT objtion wis mde. T SEc. 3. Owners of property stored in any second blank the words "to the owner or dered unless objection is made. The warehouse or holder of receipt for same shall consignee thereof' Convention will now consider the report always be at liberty to examine such proper of the Committee of the Whole on mis- ty stored, and all the books and records of The amendment is declared agreed to. cellaneous corporations and warehouses. the warehouse in regard to such property. The next amendment is to the fifth [The foll.)wiog is the report of the c. 4. All. railroad companies and other section-after the word "railroads" stheg fcteshe common carriers shall be required to weigh changing the word "railroads" to "rail staniding committee:] grain at points where it is shipped, and re-rod"isrth SECTION 1. All elevators or storehouses, ceipt for the full amount, and be held respon- rtdh, insert the word where grain or other property is stored for sible for the delivery of such amount to the first line. compensation, are declared to be, and shall owner or consignee thereof, at the place of The third amendment to the section is be deemed public warehouses. destination. in the second line, SEc. 2. The owner, lessee/ —or manager of Szc. 5. All railroad companies receiving or house" i the each and every public warehouse shall make transporting grain shall be required to deliver hs insert the words or consignees; weekly statements under oath, before some the same to any elevator or public warehouse the fourth amendment in the third line, officer to be designated by law, and keep the or consignee, to which it may be consigned, after the word "warehouse," insert the same posted in sonie conspicuous place in the Provided such elevator or public warehouse or words "or consignees;" the fifth amend office of such warehouse, and shall also file a consignee can be reached by any track owned, ment after the wo copy for public examination in such place as leased or used, or which can be used by such shall be designated by law, which statement railroad companies; and all railroad r-frt line, insert the word "company," shall correctly set forth the amount and grade panies shall permit connections to be made and, in the same line, the xth amend of each and every kind of grain in such ware- with their track. so that any public ware- menit, after the word "railroads" chang. house, together with such other property as house or consignee may be reached by the g it to -railroa, may be stored therein, and what warehouse cars on said railroad, provided such connec- o receipts have been issued and are at the time tion is authorized by the legal authorities of ompn to the fifth se of making such statement outstanding there- any town or city in which such connection is ment to the fifth section-in the fifth line, for; and shall on the copy posted in the ware- desired. after the werd "warehouse" insert the house, note daily such clanges as may be src. 6. Itshallbhe duty of the general words'"or consignees." made in 5-he quantity and grade of grain in Assembly to pass all necessary laws to pre- And the auen t wda ,such warehouse. vent the issue of false and fraudulent ware- re. SEzc. 3. The board of trade of any city or house receipts and to give full effect to this greed to. town where a public warehouse is located, article of the Constitution, which shall be The next amendment is to strike out may appoint committees whenever it may liberally construed, so as to protect producers the sixth section. desire, who shall have full power to Inspect and shippers. And the enumeration of the It will be decl ared.agreed to the books of any warehouse whenever said remedies herein named, shall not be con- The nex t amendm board shall deem it necessary, and the owners strued to deny to the General Assembly the Ten t on- in the st of property stored in any warehouse or holder power to prescribe by law such other and section-in the first line strike out "Leg of receipt for same shall always be at liberty further remedies as mav be found expedient, islatare," and insert the.words "G to examine such property stored and all the or to deprive any person of any existing com- Arsembly;" the sec books and records of the warehouse, and the mon law remedies. the section after theo agents, clerks, and employees may be ex- SEc. 7. The General Assembly shall pass amined under oath as to the said books, re- laws for the inspection of grain, for the pro- first line, insert "to prevent the issue of cords and property under such rules and regu- tection of producers, shippers and receivers false and fraudulent warehouse receipts lations as may be prescribed by law. of grain and produce. and;" and the third.amedmen SEc. 4. All railroad companies and other The PRESIDENT. The question is seventh section adds common carriers shall be req uired to weigh uponI concurrence, with the Committee of retary will read. grain into the car s at points where it is n shipped, and receipt for the amount, and be the Whole in its amendment to the third The Secretary, readrhewr ed held responsible for the delivery of the section, by which was stricken out from section seven, as fol amount received, at the place of destination. the section language which the Secretary And the enumerato oftermde Szc. 5. All railroads receiving and trans- will read' herein named shall nored en porting grain shall be required to deliver the th same to any elevator or public warehouse to T Secretary read the words stricken ib the beny l sch tre ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~scribety la whc such othertiand furhe rmdiesre whichi it may be consigned, provide-d such out from section three, as follows:, sa. may be found expediet rt erv n elevator or public warehouse can be reached The board of trade of any city or town person of any existi cre by any track owned, leased or used, or which where a publicwarehouseisnlocatedmayapwaics. ceeu ranizbeiunsed by su n rchrilyt roaosd;t amnd all srail-pint commtte wodThenevereitmary dsre, h a~:.~.. rods shl permit conaectos t be made wh shall have fl powewo iset te T e PR ~ D N p h m n m n hous ma be reae o hchedb the Screarsyo saidhll deemd itonecssr and theo... agee to..... ramrad, p o ied such connect o s au hrmh R S D ~ T The ga me d me t T e n x m n m n to the resportris Ized by ~~~~~~The legrealy au h rit es f a ny t own wor d wil be d8rcre ag e d t. ane add ti n eal Asectio] wh ich the sec e Sc ~. Thyor o f taeoother corn~- _ bue deintedb law,shall haecpoessrlw to-~~ ichte Sertaywll cred., ti ponet, anersuc followsad maesuc rue incregrtofthe ionspecution TheiScrear rea lthen wors to be resc.~ 7. he GREnIEral Asseml salldpas ogriashmay b e jutinbpoer,ll fornhestricen sou fst romec section two,asfllos lasfrte insectinofgai,frted pgroe o ceiucers ofgain. be exa' " tuet~asalncsaylw ogv ul,adpoet,udrsc ue n The PRSD T. Teadtoa prodcer anshppers to insert language which the Secretary The question now is upon the adoption [The following is the report of the wl ed fteatce standing committee as amended by the -The Secretary read the words inserted - Mr. TURNER. MrI. President: ~ bile Committee of the Whole]. in section two, as tfollows: in Committee of the Whole I felt con ARTICLE -- ~~After the word "warehouse" the words "in strained, byv a sense of duty, by the obli regard to such property." gations [ w my constituents, most of Sacrox. Al eevatrs r soreouse Th PRSIDNT. The amendment whom are farmers, to oppose this w arewhere grain or other property is stored for a is declared agreed to.hosaril compensation, are declared-to be, and shall hueatce be deemed public warehouses. The next question is uponi the first I have been charged with having ex ac. 2. TIhe owner, lessee, or manager of amendment to the fourth section, scaond hibited undue zeal in my opposition to each and every public warehouse, shall make line, by which the words "into the cars" the measure, and with having used "harsh weekly statements under oath, before some are striken out. advtprtv"lnug,we paofficer to be designated by law, and kee p the Teamedmvtient wie"llnuae bhen peasame posted in some conspicuous place in the heaedetwlbedeclared mng of the board of trade. That I did office of such warehouse, and shall also file a agreed to. oppose the measure with zeal; that I felt. copy for public examination in such place as The second amendment to the section and perhaps expressed, some indignatioln 424 CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION in respect to tite manner in which this or article was brought before the Conven sl tion, is true, but I did not speak in a harsh or Disrespectful manner of the board of trade. On the coihtrar, I comme nded th them as being a useful body, and made up, in a good degree, of upright, honora- t ble men. B ut I did denounce, in somewhat se. vere language, another class of men, gen- t erally found in connection with boards of t trade, who are familiarly known as t "gold" and "grain gamblers"-men who add nothing to the wealth of the country, either as producers, carriers or traders- f men who grow rich or poor by deranging the markers and betting upon the results of their scheming. Towards these men I can employ no language strong enough to depict their villainy or describe the injuries they inflict upon the producers and i legitim:ate traders of the country. Trhat I am not alone in entertaining the views which I expressed upon this floor with respect to this measure, I pro- ~ propose to quote a few paragraphs X from what claims to be the great organ of the people in the N(orthwest. I refer to the Chicaoo Tribune. Ia its issue of April 6, 1870, it says: The point that now stands most in need of being cleared up is, that a railroad company which has permitted one consignee or eleva tor to connect with its track by a switch, may be compelled by mandamus to permit any other similarly situated to connect in like manner. We believe that under the common law the courts will so compel them. They have already held that a road is bound to deliver into any elevator that stands con nected with their track by a switch. But the broad principle on which this is held is that they are bound as common carriers to treat all consignees alike. Under this principle the courts would be equally bound to hold, that if a company permitted one elevator to con nect by a switch, it must permit all who de sire to do so. If these points are decided for the grain owners, legislation on their behalf is need less. If decided against them such legisla tion would be in violation of the vested rights of the companies as common carriers. For they have a vested right by charter to all the lights of common carriers, whatever the courts hold them to be, and if it is one of their vested rights as common carriers to re fuse to carry, grain in bulk, neither an act of the Legislature nor a constitutional provision can compel them to do so. In any event, therefore, the whole question rests with the courts, and, in advance of their decisions as to what the law is, it is pretty difficult to de cide what changes in t_he law are needed. It may prove that none are needed. Again, in the same article, and treating of this same measure, that paper proceeds as follows: But there are some things in the proposed constitutional provision which are more to be feared than any act of the Legislature, be cause less easily repealable, rsr instance, it provides: "SE3c. 1. All elevators or storehouses where grain or other property is stored/for a com pensation, are declared to be, and shall be deemed, public warehouses. Heretofore there have been two systems of Mwarehousing, private and public. Private is defined by the act,f- 1867 as that wherein the grainl of each owner is kept separate; and public as that in which the grains of va riouas owners are mixed. Of course, the meaning of the term "public warehouse,"o in the Constitution, will be construed accord ing to the definitions previously given in the statutes. If this be true, then the effect of the above constitutional provision would be to forbid and make illegal all warehousing in which the grains of various owner s are kept distinct. This is a provision clearly in the interest of the warehoulses, since iv is from the mixing of grains that all the frauds and extortions of the system grow. Even now wners may by special exertion secure the o peccal deposit of grain that is above the ot egular grades, so as to avoid the loss which b ,ould arise from throwing it in with th d rrade. The Cary amendment would prevent se his. im Again, in its issue'of April 11th, 1870, n the Chicago Tribune says: MR. CARY'S WAREHOUSE ARTICLE. a It se ems probable that some members of the Constitutional Convention feel committed e to Mr. Cary's warehouse article, and propose to stand or fall with it, somewhat as the boy w who affir med the horse to be sixteen feet high, t when he meant sixteen hands, determined to s sta nd by his "first opinion." Our conclusion upon the whole matter is, that a clause in the Constitution, declaring that, whatever is, is, ~' rih1 omxteganso'ifrn wes would not be ornamental to that instrument nor useful to the owners of grain unless enforced-that the evils of the warehouse sys- s tem proceed, in ninety-nine cases out of every w hundred, from the non-enforcement of exist- ing law, and that the vile conspiracy between the railways and elevators, against which we have all been crying out so long, is the result of supineness on the part of the dealers in grain, which supineness cannot be cured either by an act of the Legislature, or by an article in the State Constitution.e Mr. Cary's proposed article in some of its provisions is harmless, and perhaps useful, but its first section, from which the others fol- low in a sort of logical sequence, could not, in our judgment, have been drawn mor e in l the interest of the warehouses if it had been framed by a committee of warehousemen a themselves. That sectionreads asfollows: r "SECTION 1. All elevators or storehouses! where grain or other property is stored for a compensation, are declared to be, and shall i be deemed public warehouses." The effect of this depends upon the ques. tion, what, at the time of the adoption of this clause, is the meaning of the term "public warehouses," for alter its adoption all warehouses must be of the class heretofore designated and now known to t he l aw as "public warehouses." The most recent and authoritative definition which could possibly be given of the term, unless the Convention itself define it, which they do not. would be the act of the Legislature regulating warehouses, passed in 1867. That defines the term clearly in the following section: "SECTioN 1. Be it enacted, etc., that hereafter all persons who shall keep a warehouse in this State, for the storing of grain, in which the grain of each person storing grain in such warehouse shall be kept in a separate bin, distinct from the grain of all other persons, shall be denominated'private warehousemen,' and that all persons keeping a warehouse for the storing of grain in bulk, and in which the grain of different owners shall in any way be mixed, shall be denominihnated'public warehousemen.'" Of course the elevator owners would rather have the right to mix the grain of all than aonly the right to mix the grain of part. It is the mixture of the grains of various owners that transfer it in effect, though not in law, to the warehouseman, to deal with pretty much as he pleases. Every interest and effort of the iwarehousemen are egainst "private warehousing" as defined by the above act, and it has only been by peculiar influences, and inl the case of special qualities of grain, that shippers and consignees have been able to procure separate storage for any grain whatever. But shippers still have the legal right to keep their grain separate, and to obtain a return of their own grain if;&they demand it. In the case of grain above the various grades in quality this right may be worth f(our or five cents a bushel to the owner. It is very doubtful whether, if the warehouses were held strictly down to their duties as storers, they would not manage to give separate storage to very much more grain than they do. But they prefer, of course, a system which permits them to speculate and gamble in all the grain they are storing, with much superi or facilities for controlling its price, as assimilates their game, in point of honesty, to that of the player with loaded dice. But Mr. Cary asks the Constitutional Convention, by the above first section, to make all the warehousing done in the State public warehousing. He abolishes the right of an I --- . -. ', THURSDAY, 1694 [Here the hammer fell], ["Go on." "Object."] The PRESIDENT. Objection being heard, it is the duty of the Chair to enforce the rule. Mr. WELLS. Mr. President: I move that the rules be suspended so that the gentleman may finish his speech. Mr. TURNER. I am only giving the arguments of the paper that is attacking me so severely. Mr. ROSS. We can take some other time at a more convenient season, to read the Tribiune. [Laughter]. The PRESIDE2C'. The question is on the motion of the gentleman from Peoria [Mr. Wells] that the rules be suspended. A division was ordered. The Convention divided, when, there being twenty-five in the affirmative The PRESIDENT. This being a stand MAY 5, 1870. DEBATES AD PROCEEDINGS. 1695 sions opposed Chicago, and inr no way can he carry out his designs more successfully than by increasing the facilities of grain gamblers in Chicago to carry on their speculations successfully. But, Mr. President, I have the satisfaction of knowing that if my attack upon the measure was fierce, it had the effect of taking from it some of its most iniquitous and most mischievous provisions. As the article now stands, it is in a great measure harmless. In the language of the Chicago Tribune, it simply declares that "whatever is, is,"-and it is not very "ornamental" to that instrument. What remains of the article will, in my opinion, greatly increase the cost of transporting and handling grain, but producers and honest dealers will not be, as was intended by the men who got it up, pl aced at the mercy of the grain gamblers. The only reason that I have for opposing this article, is because I represent a farming community. I have seen the evils of mixing grain. I have seen and known of the evils of miakilg these corners upon the market, and I do insist upon it that this article is calculated to impose additional burdens upon the producer and country dealer. And if from the fierce attack I made upon it, the sting has been to a good degree withdrawn, and the objectionable features to a great extent stricken out, I am content. Now, if the Convention will strike out the first section of the article, so that our farmers may store their grain as they see fit, either having it mixed or kept separate, I can go for the balance of the articele. I am as much opposed to railroad and warehouse monopolies as any man in this country, but I am at the same time opposed to any species of legerdemain of this kind, under the pretense of favoring the farmers while really destroying their best interests. I am sincere in my oppo sition to this measure, believing, as I do, that it has been framed in the interest of a class of men whose business it is to gamin ble in the markets on grain. Mr. MERRIAM. Mr. President: It may be that the learned gentleman from Stephenson [Mr. Turner] is best prepared, from his experience and knowledge in all these matters, to speak for the farmer upon this question. I have the honor of representing, perhaps, as large a part of the farming community as he does, and am myself a practical farmer. I want to say to the gentleman that the assertion that the article compels warehousemen to mix the grain, is absolutely incorrect. Every mill in the State is a public mill, and the gentleman will not assert the absurdity here that every bushel of grain that goes into the public mill must be mixed. The proposition is an absurity-I do not care whether the gentle man gets the idea from a newspaper, or whether it is the offspring of his own brain. I undertake to say that the farmers of the State of Illinois are looking with great interest to this warehouse article today, and the petitions that have come up here have been numerously signed by sbippers of grain, and while thisquestion has been agitated, Ihave never heard a single farmer or shipper dissent or protest against it, but on the other hand, it has met universal approbation. I hope that the mere threat that we are ing order and not a rule of the eConvention, a me re majority can s uspend it. Mr. TURNER. Mr. President: I shall not occupy more than the other five minutes, which will bring me within the ten. Mr. ROSS, Mr. President: I rise to a point of order. This rule was reported by the Committee on Rules, and adopted by the Convention. The PRESIDENT. The Chair was not enforcing the ten minute rule of the Convention, but the five minute order, which alone was rescinded. Mr. TURNER. Mr. President: I have not much more to say. These, Mr. President, were the sentiments and opinions of the Chicago Tr-ibu7?e, when that paper was speaking for the rights and interests of the people, but by some species of legerdemain, perhaps similar to that which operated upon that sheet in the old horse railwav matters, it has changed front. A new luminary, perhaps, with a silver lining, has dawned upon that veracious journal, and it now takes me to task for saying in my poor way, what it said, when left to follow its better promptings, uninfluenced by the grain rings of Chicago. It was conceded by that paper, that if the article had been prepared by the grain gamblers of Chicago, it could rot have been framed more in their favor. But in the issue of May 4th, that paper has the following with respect to that article, and what I said concerning it: Mr. Turner, of Stephenson county, in objecting to the article, said that it had been prepared as a measure of revenge by a lot of speculators who had got hurt by a decline in wheat. That is not true. It was prepared by a number of gentlemen who have become so accustomed to having their pockets picked by the railway-elevator combination that they have come to regard the picking of their pockets as a part of the coml,-ion law. So, instead of taking measures to keep the hands of the railway-elevator combination out of their pockets entirely, they prepared an article to regulate the mode by which pockets shall hereafter be rifled. In this article, as usual, my remarks a re misrepresented, but inasmuch as that pa per has raised a question of veracity with me upon the subject, I now ask that it furnish the names of the "gentlemen who have become so accustomed to having their pockets picked" that they were induced to prepare this article. If it will give the names of the mlen who prepared the article, I will prove ~hat they are speculato~rs in grain, and the very men who lost money ota the corner upon oats a short time ago. I reiterate what I before stated, that this article was prepared by the grain operators of Chicago. It was prepared in manuscript, and shown to some members before it was introduced, and was taken to the committee in the form it was reported back in. The gentleman from Jo Daviess [Mr. Cary] was, selected to stand sponsor for it. I further assert that most, if not all, of the petitions which were sent to this Convention upon this subject wvere prepared by these same grain dealers in in Chicago and sent out to their friends for signatures.'There arc gentlemen on this floor who have the evidence of thils in their possession. Mr. President, it is not surprising that the gentleman fTom Crawford [Mr. Allen] favors this measure. His commercial inaterests lit in St. Louis, he has on all occa-. MA-Y 5) 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1695 doing something iU the interest of the board of trade, or of any other combina. tion or corporation, will not deter us from doing our whole d ty in this matter. We have stricken out the section which refers to the boa,d of trade. Mr. ALLEN, of Crawford. Air. President: The gentleman from Stephenson [Mr. TurnerYtook occasion, in his remarks awhile ago, to say that my support of this matter was induced by prefereiace for St. Louis and other cities over Chicago. I do Dot thiiik the gentlemaia had a right to infer that from anything I said the other day, or that because I trade in grain iii other cities, I desire to withhold freight from Chicag-), or that my vote upon the question showed any unkind feelidg toward Chicago. I supported this measure because it seemed to be in accordance with the wishes of a large number of the farmers and traders outside of the, city of Chicago. The gentleman says the article was gotten up by the board of trade of Chi cago. I do not know how that is. I did not know it the other day when I made a-few remarks upon this question, nor do I know it yet, except that the gentleman asserted his statement to be true. Now sir, the argument that the mere fact that we declare all these warehouses "public warehouses," necessarily causes a mixture of all the grain that comes into them, is too preposterous. Mr. TURNER. Mr. President: Have we not a statute that declares that public warehouses are those where the grain is mixed, and that private warehouses ara th)se where it is not? Mr. ALLEN, of Crawford. 3Tr. President: It may be, sir, that this very board of trade, and the men -who own these warehouses, procured the passage of such a law as that. It may be true that the provision itself declares that the parties shall mix grair- whenever it is put intj a public warehouse Whether that be true or not, I assert again that the Legislature did a very preposterous thing when they undertook to so declare, and unless the gentleman can bring some stronger argument than. that against the adoption of this section, I shall still be iuclined to vote for it. A man keeping a warehouse may mix the rain or he ma not mix it. If it be CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION ic to agree to such registration, provided M Cary's proposition is withdrawn. he In other words, they will consent to h temporory reform, provided they can avoid ada permanent one. The people cannot eve at afford to leave the question of granting o in denying the main points of the reliefpropose p by Mr. Cary to the caprices of each succeedin tr. Legislature. Ia t o There the Tribune advocates thi Id proposition in its full length and exten r- Sir, in my opinion the distinction pre is tended to be made by the gentlema n- from Stephenson [Mr. Turner] is wholl e without foundation; still if it will re m move any doubt from the mind of an y gentleman I have no objection to th al amendment of the gentleman from Coo] e- [Mr. Hayes]. Or The PRESIDENT. The question i Id upon the amendment of the gentleman from Cook [Mr. Hayes]. The amendment was agreed to. e- The PRESIDENT. The question i e upon the adoption of section one a atamended. I Mr. DEMENT. Mr. President:. in want to sav a few words in support o this section, and all the sections of thi t report. I assume that there is no one s upon this floor, who has a better righ d from interest, experience and sympathy to speak for the interest of the farmer than I have-and also I will observe from or a very considerable experience of the in te fluences that this class of the community o- have suffered by the warehouse system of Chicago. Notwithstanding the zeal ex st hibited here by the gentleman from I1 Stephenson [Mr. Turner], and the sensa i- tion created in this body upon this sub 3- ject setting forth the contrary, I believe ss that this section and this article are in e the interest of the farmer, and the shipI- per who stands between the farmer and e warehousemen-men of Chicago also. I do not believe that the petitions that It came in here from my constituents were y gotten up by any arrangement of Chicae go warehousemen or boards of trades b s men; they were gotten up in the interest e of the farmer. d Sir, we wish the grain of the country n. to go forward, and be valued according - to the supply and demand, and not l et the d price be influenced by warehousemen or g n Ioards of trade, or influences outside of s both these interests. This article pro tet htclas of our community from Cobuh co, Tnsae tion tht te oner ofgran ad hldes obscuring the facts in the case. Cmig, Mrim advne of ecept, my g ito hemasint ay As the owners of warehouses are re- Dmn, Moe anr othr pblc biling ad eamne her quired to exhibit a statement of the Els akr ahun grain orother poperty.amount of grain in store, under proper Elrde sk, Wetn I donot hinkthe mendent f te regulation, commerce in relation to grain uls, Pic, Wiig gentlman fom Cok [Mr Haye] will stand upon the samne platform as ev-Gode change thismatter stil it i reo esry other co~mmercial article, so that the A. any oasle iscnstrctin, hae:n people cannot be deceived as to the Bonn, Gml, Udrod objetio toaccptin it Itdecare amount of grain on haned by fictitiousFomn Hy,Wls whatwe oldto b th corectdocrin, certificates of storage of grain, by w hich Fx unr ngt1 notwthstndin th decaraton o th its price is raised or lowered capriciously.Fulr genlemn fom tepensn [r. urnr].These expansions and contractions will ASN,O O OiG If e ad te Ti~ue hs hd adifer-be suppressed, the prices made uniform, le fAe.Bxo, Pae onceof oinio ~dfellng ot inthi in co)nsequence, and thus the interest ofAleofC'dCoy cofed mattr, donot nowtha we avegotthe farmer and producer will be secured. Atoy ri, Sap setleitin hi Cnvetin.If e ises Mr. WAGNER. Mr. President: I de-Aoe, Hna Sinr to aswe th edtor of he ri~n~,letsire to say that the gentleman from Ste-Bomn Mcoe, Wat himtak a osiionon hei stff,~ndphenson [Mr. Turner] is3 laboring under Bowl,~ eO al answer there. ~~~~a mnisapprehension as to the origin of the Bon ely edig I sal nw rfe t th rmaks f hepetitions that have have come hereBra,ilsrvM-. ~"n27 Tribne f te 2(1 lt.on hismater,on this subject. He seems to think eve- S eto n,a mne,wsare whentheysay hatthisartile-rything was gotten up in Chicago-that to Aim sqar atthemak fom h~ fat tatthose petitions came here under Chicago ThPRSDN.Teqetoiso the ery areouseen wo hd Prvio~SI~influence. h dpinofscinto ther crtiicaesshold e rgiterd, s po- I desire to explain that in a word. Mon ThSertrredscintoasfposd b th bardof rad, re ow nxiusin the commission business there, seeinglos read the section in reference to publi warehouses? Mr. ALLEN, of Crawford. I has heard the sec tion read upon this [fl.)or, an have read it myself. I repeat again th: if thrould h the acts of the warehouseme the Legislature was induced to draw u that statute, then it did a very preposte ous thiegd that which was a great ou rag~e uponl the farmers and shippers-an Itake it for granted that whenthese fa: mers and shippers become aware of th act passed by the General Assembly' us der the lead of such men as the gentle man from Stephenson [Mr. Turner], wi opposes all measures for their relief, the will compel their representatives to repel that proposition which gives the wars housemnen control of the grain. It is f the purpose of reaching the very~core, an probing it uponl these questions that to Convention is now called upon to act. .Mr. HAYES. I would ask the gentle man from Jo Daviess [Mr. Cary] if l would accept the following amendmen I move to amend the first section by Il serting after the word "compensation" i the second. line the words Whether the property stored be ke sepal-ate or not. The section as proposed to be amende will read All elevators or storehouses where gral or other p~ropverty is stored for compensation whether fhe pro perty stored be kept separat or not, are declared to be, and shall be deed ed public warehouses. I believe that the definition in the fire section of public warehltilses, embraces al warehouses. I- do not think the defini tion in the law, referred to by the gentle man from Stephenson [Mr. Turner], is a broad as3 it is in this section, but th words I sugg-est would remove a miscon structiod, and I ask the gentleman if he will accept of them as an amendmnent? Mr. CARY. I see no objection. I does not alter the law at all. The onla difference between this section and ti law of 1867 is that the law of 1867 says that warehouses which mix grain shall be declared public, and that those which d( not mnix are to -be considered private We make only this distinction. We de clare that all are public, not for the pur pose of mixing grain-the gentlemia from Stephenson [Mr. Turner] knows better than th~at-but merely for visita the abuses in the trade, determined, if >possible, to hit the poii,t and contrive a 1remedy. They coi ferred together and a with their patrons through the country, not with the "scalpers," men on the "curb stone," whose object is to "scalp" the grain dealers freed the ountry and then "scalp" one another. I do Dot kn ow of one man of that sort who aided in this movement. But men in the comnmission business, ac. ;quainted with the abuses in the trade, suggested a remedy, an~d having& had a conference with men throughout the country-I state this as a fact with which I am acquainted -came to the conclusion we find proposed in this article. These 'are the facts. No scalper, to my knowl3edge, has had anything whatever to do with it, but it is a measur e in the true in-. teres;t of the farmer and country sh ipper, whose interests are the same. When we secure the country shipper's interest, wre secure that of the producer. Mr. ANDERSON. Mr. President: I nwmove the -Drevious question. The motion- for the previous question was agreed to, and the main question or dered. The PRESIDENT. The question is on the adoption of the first section; and the Secretary will read. The Secretary read section one, as amended, as follows: SIECTITON 1. All1 elevators or- storehouses where grain or other property is stored for a compensation, whether the property stored be kept separate or'not, are declared to be and shall be deemed public warehouses. Mr. WAIT. Mr. President: I would inquire whether this first section is to include every little warehouse in the country? The PRESIDENT. The Chair is constrained to say that inquiries after the previous question has been ordered, are always irregular as they are in the nature of debate. The yeas and nays were ordered, and, being taken, resulted -yeas, 46; nays, 10 -as follows: Gaines of Con-kRobinson, Haines of LakeRorr. iHankins, Sedgwick, Harwoode Seerrillo H-ayes, Snyder, Hildriip. Sutherland, King,. Tincher, Mceoy, Truesdale, Medill" Tubbs, Merriam, Vanldevtenter, Moore, Wagner, Parker, Washburn, Parks, Wheaton. Peirce, Whiting, Rice, Wilson-46. 1696 T.HUP.SDAY, Abbott, Anderson, Bayne, Benjarnin, Cameron, Cary, Church Coolba'agh, Cross,, Cuinmings, Dement, Ellis, Eldredge, English, Goodell, Goodhue, WAYS. Gamble, -Hay, Turner, Browning, Forman, Fox, Fuller, Underwood, Wells, Wriglit-10. A'BSENT, OR NOT VOTING. Allen of Alex.,Buxton, Poaze. Allen of Crlf'd.,Codv. Sch6lAOld, Anthony, Crafji. Shari),, Are,her, Hani Atkins, Hart, Bowman, McDowell, Wait B,omweii, Neece, Wall" Brown, Perley, Wendling, Bryan, Pilir,6'IrV, TV.'-. 1rf-s,',Ient'-27. So section one, as amended, was agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is on the adoption of section two. The Secretary read section two, as f(;I. lows: 0 DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. bling blocks and-embarrassments in all information, to see how cumbersome the future legislation. machihery which is proposed to be adopt Therefore I trust that at least as far as ed in section two may be in the smaller its application to these small towns is cities. It is impossible to see how difficoncerned, this provision will be left cult of operation it may become, and unw ith the Legislatuture. They can act less there is some very great necessity for more deliberately and more understand- the application of this rule, for the applia ingly than we can, and, besides, the mis- cation of this principle, laid down in takes of one General Assembly can be section two, to all cities and all localities corrected by a succeeding one. in this State, I see no reason for the Mr. CARY. Mr. President: Inasmuch broad and comprehensive scope of this as the gentleman has suggested the section. amendment, I would ask him to suggest I trust that the members of this Consome number and not leave a blank, as vention will not force the adoption of he proposes to do. any such system as this, unless in locali Mr. TUBBS. One objection I have to ties where the experience of the past this is that I am not prepared to vote on it has shown it to be essentially necessary. , as understandingly as I ought. I am not The people in almost all these cities have prepared to say what would be for the the utmost confidence in their warehouse best interest of the farmers and the State men. I have never heard a single remark at large, but it does seem to me that made against the warehouse men of my it ought to range not less than 20,000, so city; I have never heard one single wrong that in the smaller towns the parties to pointed out against them, or one single whom I have referred will not be sub. charge of combination against farmers jected to this unnoyance which can result made in regard to them, or any one of frestde rindu no possible be-efit. them; and I trust the section will not be pi Mr. WAGNER. Mr. President: I wish made to apply to those smaller towns. If to say to the gentleman from Warren made to apply to Joliet I shall not vote [Mr. Tubbs], that so far as the first ob- for it. jection is concerned, there will be no in- Mr. SEDGWICK. Mr. President: I convenience to buyers through the coun- feel that gentlemen on this floor, with try. Every man who engages in the the very best intentions, undoubtedly, grain trade, keeps what is called a "store- with regard to the farming interest book." When he receives grain in store, ouht t b careful, in so important a ment tosom offcerof he Sate nohe makes an entry of it and of the t' g 0 eae,inmoeo a he makes an entry of it and of the time matter as placing this second secbtwhen it is received, so that in making tion in the Constitution of the State, for r out returns, he has only to transcribe the reason that it is, at the best, butan exthat account. That makes out the state- periment untried, and an experiment that ment. As far as that objection is con- may scon be found not to work well cerned, it will not embarrass the business The gentlemen should reflect that it wili ftr ooof any man throughout the country. be very difficult to get it out of the Con And as to the second objection, that it stitution. will put in possession of men who engage Now, it seems to me that there is great in this trade largely in the cities, infor- danger in flying from the ills we have to mation as to the amount of grain on hand others which we'know not of. I am through the country, I will say that they afraid that we shall be putting into the can only approximate it. There is always hands of a certain class a very dangerous a great deal of grain back in the country, power. That class is the grain gambler. and they can only approximate the amount We shall be furnishing him with the inuntil the grain all comes forward. There formation, under oath, of the amount of is no time when grain is all in store. grain that is in store, not only in Chica Mr. GOODHUE. Mr. President: Un- go, but in every other warehouse throughless section two is so amended as to ex- out the length and breadth of the State lude from its operation lesser towns and of Illinois-the very information that cities in this State, such places as that in this class of persons want, to carry out which I reside, I shall be compelledto their iniquitous pract-ces. We shall be vote against it from the present informa. enabling that class of persons with imtion which I have on the subject. mense sums of money in their hands to I recognize the fact, Mr. President, form combinations, rings, and what are that very great evils have sprung up in known as "corners" in the grain market. proft t reeivrs, ay ot he ar-Chicago, that combinations have contiau- We shall be putting them ill possession llybeenformedbetweenrailroadcompan- of the.amount of eachkind of grain in heldi~ tor, an whre,throghot is and warehouses in Chicago, that have all1 these storehouses-which certainly the engt an bredth f te Stte,been detrimental to the interests of the would not be of benefit to the'farming becomeapotentagencyinthehandsofarmer to a very alarming extent. We interest. tre forced to recognize this fact, from pe- I have prepared an amendment, which titions that have reached us from various I propose to offer, viz: to insert after the tportions of the State. We are obliged to word "warehouse," in the first line of the believe this from the argutuentsthat have second section, the words "in cities of ieen made on this floor, and the state- over two hundred thousandinhabitants." Bents that have been made during the That would confine this section to Chicaimportan.iscussion of this question. go. It seems to me that, if there are But I assert that there are no co-m any warehouses at all in the State in laints in the city where I reside, and I which it would be important to have this wresume that there are no complaints in information under these stringent rules, gther cties of the same or substantially it would be those mammoth elevators and he same size, in the State; and I for one warehouses in Chicago. I do not by this yo not propose to vote for a section which mean to say that the principle is right, ombraces the warehouse men of my city, and ought even to apply to those, but I ad district, and places them in the same can see plainly why it ought not to apply ategory with men who are admitted to to any other, and if the majority of gene swindling the farmers of the country. tlemen on this floor think it ought not to And again it seems to me that it is diffi- apply to them, then let them strike At hlt for us, at this time, with our present the whole section. I am willing to mod ~Ec 2. The owner, lessee or manager of each and every public warehouse shall make weekly statements under oath, before some officer to be designated by law, and keep the same posted in some conspicuous place in the office of such warehouse, and shall also file a copy for public examination in such place as shall be designated by law, which state ment shall correctly set forth the amount and grade of each and every kind of grain in such warehouse, together with such other property as may be stored therein, and what ware house receipts have been issued and are at the time of making such statement oustand ing therefor; and shall, on the copy posted in the warehouse, note daily such changes as may be made in the quantity and grade of grain in such warehouse. Mr. TUBBS. Mr. President: I move to amend by inserting after the word "warehouse," in line one, section two, the, following words: "situated in any town or city of not less than inhabitants." In my own county-I presume it is the same along the lines of all the roads in the State-are men who are purchasing grain from farmers; also receiving grain in store. It is a very common thing for farmers to deliver grain during the com parative leisure of winter and store it until such time as it suits them to selU. As I understand this section and arti cle, these purchasers will all be denomi nated warehousemen; and, during the life of this Constitution, they will be compelled to make weekly sworn state. ments to some officer of the State, no body knows where, of the exact amount and the grade of grain they have in store. In these small towns grain is not graded, and I apprehend that these men are not sufficiently wise in the mysteries of the future or in the mysteries of Chicago grain grading, to fix the same grades for these different lots as they receive when shipped to Chicago. Even if the thing: be practicable, it will prove a most per- petual source of annoyance and expense 1 to them, without, as I can discover, any < compensating benefit to the farmer or. seller. These very statements, for aught I know —and opportunities have not been i afforded to correspond with those who are familiar' with the question-may I be so employed as to afford additional c facilities to large operators in great c commercial centres for arranging their iniquitous combinations. Now, if private advices from the great markets of t the world, barely received in advance of published reports of the same are of t profit to receivers, may not the ear-. liest knowledge of every bushel of grain a held in store, and where, throughout:, the length and breadth of the State, k. become a potent agency in the hands of these men in their conspiracies against a the interest of the farmer and smaller ai dealers? I do not known that thesep things will occur. I do not know that b it is' possible that they should occur. b. But yet, I namne them to indicate the i importance of deliberation and prudence. d I regret, exceedingly, in a matter of this importance to all the farmers of the p State, to differ so widely from the few i) gentlemen on this floor who are directly, ot like myseelf, interested in agriculture, to yet I am unable to divest myself of the d, fear, if existling and acknowledged evils ei are to be remedied here by assuming to at this extent legislative functions, that pro- ca visions may be incorporated into the or- be ganic law not only of doubtful utility, but provisions which may prove stums cc 425 MAY 5, 1870. 16917 1698 COS1UTOA ()-ETO HRD The only material points, in my judgment, that need to be covered by the action of this Convention, with respect to this matter, are just these: In the first place, to repeal in effect the first section of the act of 1867, which makes two classes of warehouses-one public and the other private. In that act there are some very good provisions which ought to be preserved, but some of very doubtful propriety; and, by the adoption of the first section of this report, which we have adopted, all the essential provisions of the law are preserved. Now, as I said, when this matter was before the Committee of the Whole, under the decision rendered by the supreme court in the "Vincent" case, it does seem necessary that the Convention should make some effective provision, that communication between the tracks of railroad companies and warehouses may be compelled to be made. This may, as I have said, become necessary, because the supremecourt have held that under the law they are not bound, voluntarily, to submit to have these communications made. Now, if we give to the Legislature that power, and if we preserve this warehouse act of 1867, which we do by abolishing the distinction attempted to be made by that act, between private and public warehouses, and all its punitory provisions, if desired, we have done all that is practicable for the Convention to do for the relief of the grievances complained of. We may declare, in the Constitution, that railroad tracks shall connect with warehouses, and allow the cars of railroad companies to run to this or that or any warehouse; but, suppose the railroad companies refuse to do it, such a provision cannot be rendered effectual unless we have some legislation to carry it out. I think we are establishing a precedent here that the necessities of the case cannot justify-in entering into this special legislation, and embodying in this article the whole details of a bill, such as might be properly considered by the Legislature- especially such features of this second section as are urged with so much zeal: These details cannot become operative unless through legislative action. Mr. TURNER. If that clause is retained, every warehouseman from Cairo to Chicago is bound to publish semiweekly, under oath, the amount of grain in store. Does not that give to grain gamblers the opportunity of making cortners every week? t Mr. ELDREDGE. I would not wonder if it did. If there are any objectionable features in the law of 1867, it is the duty of the General Assembly to modify and correct them. We must go to the General Assembly for relief in these mat It is not the duty nor within the legitimate sphere of this Convention to enter upon any special legislation of this character. 1 venture to say that the like of thiis was never before presented to any Constitutional Convention that ever was held. And when we declare all these warehouses to be "public" warehouses, confer upon the Legislature the power of controlling them in every respect, provide for compelling railroad companies to allow their tracks to communicate with them, specifically empower the General Assembly to afford those facilities for ify it, and say "warehouses in Cook county," if th at w ill su it gentlemen better. My own judgment of t he matter is that it is a daugerous section to place in the Constifution, unless modified in its application. Mr. MEDILL. Mr. President: The objec tion the gentleman raises as to the injury that might arise from the grai ndealers of Chicaho knowing the quantity of grain in the various warehouses in the State, is only imaginary, for the board of trade can know daily within a few bush els, the amount of grain in the various warehouses in the State, and throughout the west. It is part of their bus;.ness to ascertain that information from their correspondents from all parts of the couutry. The complain, is not in regard to the concealment of grain in the country storehouses, but in the Chicago elevators. Mr. SEDGWICK. Mr. President: Why then is it necessary to insert such an article in the Constitution requiring this under oath? Mr. MEDILL. Mr. President: I answer, that it is of no consequence at all for any warehouses outside of the city of Chicago to make these reports, as it is only in the Chicago elevators that the amount of grain is concealed. The warehousemen having absolute control of the books, can conceal the quantity of the various kinds and grades on hand and the amount they ship, to the extent of hundreds of thousands of bushels. Mr. SEDGWICK. I ask gentlemen, then, to reflect what burdens they are placing upon the smaller warehouses throughout the country, when they corn pel them to comply with this section, which I will read, that gentlemen may carefully reflect upon its requirements before voting for it as it now stands. SEC. 2 The owner, lessee or manager of each and everv public warehouse shall make weekly statements under oath, before some officer to be designated by law, and keep the same Dosted in some conspicuous place in the office of such warehouse, and shall also file a copy for public examination in such place as shall be designated by law, which statement shall correctly set forth the amount and grade of each and every kind of grain in such warehouse, together with such other property as may be stored therein, and what warehouse receipts have been issued, and are at the time of making such statement outstanding therefor; and shall, on the copy posted in the warehouse, note daily such changes as may be made in the quantity and grade of grain in such warehouse. Mr. ELDREDGE. Mr. President: I desire to offer a substitute for the second section. The Secretary read the substitute offered by Mr. iEldredge, as follows: The General Assembly shall pass all needful laws for the control of public warehouses, and regula-ting the receipt and inspection of all grain, merchandise and other property stored therein, and the receipt, transportation and delivery of grain, merchandise and other property, by railroad companies to such public warehoulses, and prescribe the manner in which communication shall be had between tracks of railroad companies and sulch public warehouses, 80o that the same may be reached by the cars of railroad compa4nies. communication, and l eave out the rest of this abominable fustian, we shall have done all that is practicable for this Convention to do, to facilitate the purposes for which this article was designed. Mr. COOLBAUGH. Mr. President: I desire to say a few words upon the substitute proposed by the gentleman from LaSalle [Mr. Eldredge]. If gentlemen have paid attention to his substitute, they will see, if adopted, it is a substitute for section two, and also for all the remaining sections of the article. I can conceive how the practical operation of section two, as it now stands, would entail a great deal of labor, and doubtless some inconvenience upon warehouses in small towns in the different parts of the State, upon the lines of our railroads and other public communication, and have no objection to seeing the section modified, so as to relieve such warehouses of the duties imposed by the section. But I oppose the substitute because it does not provide the restrictions and safeguards contained in the other section of this article. It is very easy to say that the Legislature shall pass some law by which railroads shall be compelled to'deliver grain to the consignees, or by which connections shall be made by side tracks with the lines of railroad, so as to enable them to deliver to any public warehouse in Chicago, but I submit that to pass over any section upon that subject in this Convention, would fail to meet the expectation of the people. Section four provides SEc. 4. All railroad companies and other common carriers shall be required to weigh grain at points where it is shipped, and receipt for the full amount, and be held responsible for the delivery of such amount to the owner or consignee thereof, at the place of destination. I do not want to see the Convention go back from the assertion of a right so directly and plainly in the interest of the farmer and producer. I hope it will not be passed over. Section five contains important provisions which are done away with by this substitute. I hope these sections will be preserved, as they are so manifestly in the interest of the people of the State. Mr. ELDREDGE. Mr. President: May I ask the gentleman a question? Are not the points in this section, in detail, covered by my substitute? Mr. COOLlBAUGtI. I think not, Mr. President. I know that the points in~ tended to be secured in this section are of such importance that the people want them, and I know that they do not now seem to have a remedy. Gentlemen mayr say that the comlmon law relating to common carriers requires roads to deliver grain to whomsoever it may be sent, but we know they refuse, and shelter themselves behind decisions of the courts, which, if we adept this section, wilt; hereafter be unmistakable. It is for the protection of the -people, and I hope'we wilt not adopt the substitute, Mr. CU,MMINGS. Mr. President: I move to amend the amendment offered by the gentleman from Warren [Mr. Tubbs] by filling the blank with twenty-five thousand, and I move the previous question on the amendment. Gir. WHITING. Mr. President: I would like to read, for information, an amendment. t 1698 CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION THURSDA-I, Mr. ELDREDGE. I a'ree with the gentleman from DeKalb [Mr. Sedgwick], tha', it is very unsafe to adopt all the pro - visions contained in this second section. I think it will be found very embarrassidg when we come to put it into operation if it can be put into operation without any.legislatio —-which I doubt. MAY 5, 1870. DEBATES A1) I'ROOEEDIGS. 169w pose to add to the section as amended the following: Add to section two the following: "And the different grades of grain shipped in sepa rate lots shall not be mixed with inferior or superior grades without the consent of the owner or consignee." The object of this amendment is to meet and remedy one of the most fre quently mentioned causes of complaint connected with the grain trade. There comes up from all portions of this State, and from all portions of the other States that deal with us, a continual protest against the mixture of the different grades of grain by warehousemen, against the consent of the consignee or owner. This is a constant source of grief to every produce dealer in our State and to the whole northwest that pours its grain into that emporium. You may send to Chicago a train load of the purest "number one wheat," with positive orders that the grain shall be put into a number one grain bin, mixed only with grain of its own grade, and the warehouseman, as a rule, will pay no respect whatever to your wishes or those of the party to w ho m it is sent, bu t wi ll dump it into any bin he pleases, with any other grain, and mix your "number one" with "rejected" or with number two or three, and then draw out the mixture at a grade that will afford him a handsome profit at your expense, for all cheating of this kind in the end comes out of the pocket of the producer. So long as the owner of the grain, wheat, corn, oats, barley, or whatever it may be, has no control over that matter, so long the warehouseman will have an undue and a dishonest advantage over every grain shipper and grower in the northwest. I have offered this amendment in the interest of the producer and the dealer in grain. With the warehousemen it will, probably be one of the most unpopular provisions in the article, if it shall be adopted, for it will cut off or oblige the Legislature to cut off, a fountain of fraud from which tens of thousands of dollars a year can be made by every warehouseman in Chicago, if he cultivates his opportunities. Mr. President, one of the objections that has been urged against this article and against this section, is, that'n some way the "grain gamblers," so-called, of Chicago, are in lavor of it, and may be benefited by it. Now, that, in my judgment, is not a good or sufficient reason, and ought not to be entertained by this Convention for a moment. If the article itself is founded upon correct principles, if it seeks to correct great wrongs comm hlitted on the industrial interests of the country-what matters it whether dealers in grain in Chicago are in favor of or opposed to it k Let me illustrate what I mean. One of the provisions requires that the quantity of grain placed on board of the cars shall be delivered to the consignee. Noww that must be to the interest of the producer of the grain as much as to the nandler of it, for every member here must perceive that if the grain shippers lose tfrom ten to twenty bushels of grain in every car load, which is a common thing, they will pay the farmer enough less per bushel to make good their losses on eweight delivered. They take it out of the producer of the grain most assuredly. Provided, warehouses in towns and cities having less than one hundred thousand inhabitants. shall be exempt, unless included by the General Assembly by some general law. It may be possible that hereafter we shall need to reach warehouses in cities of less than one hundred thousand,'and this will give the General Assembly au opportunity to include others. The PRESIDENT. Tbequestionison filling the blank with 200,000. A division was ordered. The Convention divided, when, there being eighteen in the affirmative, the motion of Mr. Sedgwick, to fill the blank with 200,000, was not agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is on filling the blank with 100,000. A division was ordered. The Convention divided, when, there being thirty-one in the affirmative, the motion of Mr. Benjamin, to fill the blank with 100,000, was agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is on the amendment offered by the gentleman from Warren [Mr. Tubbsj, to insert after the word "warehouse" the words, "situated in any town or city containing not less than 100,000 inhabitants." Mr. WHITING. Mr. President: To test the sense of the Convention in regard to my own proposition, I move to lay the amendment on the table. The PRESIDENT. The question is on the motion of the gentleman from Bureau [Mr. Whiting], to lay the amendment on the table. A division was ordered. The Convention divided, when the motion was not agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is on the adoption of the amendment offered by the gentleman from Warren [Mr. Tubbs]. The amendment was agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is on the section as amended. Mr. MEDILL. Would it be in order to move to add an amendment to the section? The PRESIDENT. Amendments to the section, or to the substitute, are in order. Mr. -MEDILL. Mr. President: I prey MAY 5, 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDI-NGS. 1699 Mr. MEDILL. I also, Mr. President, have a very important amendment I would like to read for information. The PRESIDENT. The previous question is moved. A division was ordered. The Convention divided, when, there being,fourteen in the affirmative, the motion for the previous question was not agreed to. The PRESIDENT. -The -question is upon the amendment offered by the gentleman from Fulton [Mr. Cummings], to fill the blank with twenty-five thousand. Mr' BENJA?vllN. Mr. President: I move to amend by inserting one hundred thousand. Mr. SEDGWICK. Mr. President: I move to fill the blank with two hundred thousand. Mr. WHITING. Mr. President: I would like to read for information an amendment I propose. The PRESIDENT. It may be read by general consent. Mr. WHITING. Mr. President: I propose to add at the end of the section If they lose five per cent. on the quantity of grain shipped to Chicago, they will pay five per cent. less for their wheat, or corn, or oats. If their car loads of grain hold out, they a!.-e able to pay more, and competition will oblige thern to do it. Ttierefore,that provision is exclusively in the interest of the producer of grain when we come to analyze it. And why should not the farmer have that protec tion? Will some opponent of the section answer? Again, in regard to compelling rail roads to allow competing elevators to connect with tracks of any road. If that provision is adopted, its tendency and effect is to reduce the cost or char-ae for storage of grain. Now, it costs fiften to twenty five cents a bushel. to carry graia through the winter in our combination elevators and monopoly warehouses, ani the cost of storage in the end comes out of the grain raiser, while, if competing warehouses would store for half the monopoly charges, the fttrmer would, in the winter, get e-ght to twelve cents a bushel Riore for his produce. Is any opponent of this article too bl'ind to see that fact? But, none are so blind as those who refuse to see. I bold that provisi(,n to be always and vitally necessarily in the interest of the producer of grain. Again, the provision that compels a ,more honest grading of grain, SO that the warehouseman and his confederates will make less by mixing and doctoring this grain and by speculating on it, enures to the benefit of the producer; because the buyer, who puts his grain into the warehouse, will receive a better price, and, consequently, will be enabled to pay the fai mer a better price. The principles of this article will be good, useful and needful, so long as grain is raised, and a surplus is shipped in the State of Illinois. [Here the halumer fell]. '.rhe amendment offered by Mr. Medill, was agreed to. Mr. ANTHONY. Mr. President: I move to strike olit section two for the reason that it seems to me to contain too much legislation for an organic law. We are attempting here to-day to do what Englaiad attempted to do two hundred and twenty-five years ago, to-wit: To regulate and establish by irrevocable laws the inode of doin business -a th:n 1700 COSTITUTJOAL COYEXTJON THURSDAY, quantity of grain in the warehouses in Chicago has for ten years past been made public. Mr. ANTHONY. No, sir; I did not say ten years ago. Mr. MED'LL, Then, that the warehouses are doing it now-was that what you said? Mr. ANTHONY. I am informed that they are doing it to-day. Mr. MEDILL. Do you not know that the board of trade of Chicago have been pressing the warehousemen, for the last Ri x months, by every means in their power to induce or compel the elevators to make public their receipts of grain, and also the quantity of different grades on hand -and that they have refused to do it? The record of the controversy on this subject has been published in all the Chicago papers. Mr. ANTHONY. IfI understand that matter correctly, it takes some time to make up the statements provided for, and we may want to add a good many other things besides what is mentioned here. I do not object to the information required. I believe in affording the public all the information possible; and if we can correct all the abuses complained of, I shall be heartily rejoiced. Mr. MEDILL Are you aware that every warehouseman in Chicago knows every night the quantity of grain he has in store, as well as every bank in Chicago knows the amount of deposits it has, and the amount of cash on hand or paid out during the day? Mr. ANTHONY. It may be [Here the hammer fell ] Mr. ANDERSON. I believe this question has been considered fully. We all understand it, and I therefore move the previous question. The motion for the previous question was agreed to, and the main question ordered. The PRESIDENT. The question is on striking out the second section which, under the rules, takes precedence of the motion to amend. The yeas and nays were ordered, and being taken, resulted-yeas 11, nays 39as follows: to. The PRESIDENT. The question is on striking out and inserting the substitutce of the gentleman from La Salle [Mr. Eldredge]. The Secretary read the su bst itute offered by Mr. Eldredge, as follows: The General Assembly shall pass all needful laws for the control of publi c warehouses and regulating the receipt an d inspection of all grain, merchandise and othe r proper ty stored therein, and the r eceipt, transportation and delivery of Rrain, merchandise and other property, by railroad companies, to such public warehou ses, and prescribe the manner in which communication shall be had between tracks of railroad companies and such public warehouses, so that the same may be reached by the ca rs of railroad companies. The substitute offered by Mr. Eldredge was not agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is upo n the adoption o f the section. Section two, as amended, was agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon section three. The Secretary read section three, as follows: SEc. 3. Owners of property stored in any warehouse, or holder of receipt for same, shall always be at liberty to examine such property stored, and all the books and records of the warehouse in regard to such property. Section three was agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon section four. The Secretary read section four, as follows: SEC. 4. All railroad companies and other common carriers shall be required to weigh grain at points where it is shipped, and receipt for the full amount, and be held responsible for the delivery of such amount to the owner or consignee thereof, at the place of destination. Mr. WRIGHT. Mr. President: I move to strike out the words "and other common carriers." Along the line of the Illinois and Mississippi rivers a large number of steamboats are engaged ia carrying freights, taking it from different points along the rivers, at some of which there are small warehouses, which may have small lots of grain to ship, probably in sacks. If these boats are required to stop and weigh all the grain shipped in that wav, they cannot possibly take the freight, or if they do, it will entail great expense to the shipper and producer, cripple the commnerce uponi the river, and thuls operate in rawver of railroads. Mr. WAIT. Mr. Presiden:t: There are other companies or corporationls that run lines of cars over the railroads:fi';m Chicago east that are common carriers. They should not be exempted from the opera. tion of this rule. In order to meet the difficulty I would move to insert after the word "carriers" the words "on railroads.'> The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the amendment of the gentleman from Mason [Mr. Wright], which is to strike out from the section the words "and other common carriers." The motion was rnot agreed to. Mr. WAIT. Mr. President: I now move to insert after the word "carriers" the words "on railroads." The amendment was agreed to. Mr. HAYES. Mr. President. If there is no objection, I movewto insert after has a quantity of wheat and wanats to s nd it to Chicago, can it w he n it reaches that p oint be sto red in the cars? Not at all. It might rem ain a few hours upon the track. W here can it be put at the ex pira tio n of thos e few h ours? It must go into an elevator or warehouse. There may not be a vesse l r eady to take i t to Buffalo. You may not have any commission man there who is the owner of a storehouse, and it must be sold upon the track or put into some warehouse for transshipment. It strikes me that section two is wholly a species of special legislation. It may be a good system, but ought it to go into the organic law? Do we not mistake this Convention for the General Assembly? I would like, for my part, if we could make all men honest, but it so happens that we cannot, even by a constitutional enactment. I have been told upon this floor that there are as many scalpers in the small towns, dealing in grain, as there are in the city of Chicago in proportion to the number of inhabitants. I have been told that, in the small towns the grain buyers combine to fix the price of grain, and that the producers cannot get a dollar more than they will give. There are bulls and bears in the country, as well as in the city. My opinion is, that we are engaged in the work of trying to fix how business shall be done. Upon this subject I am somewhat of a free-trader. If men commit frauds, the statutes of the State afford ample provision for arresting and punishing them for their crimes. If I thought that we could regulate and control this thing I would be in favor of this second section, but I think that we can not, and therefore it is that I make the motion to strike out. Mr. TRUESDALE. Mr. President: I want to know by what authority and in what manner grain is inspected. Mr. ANTHONY. Mr. President: We hove inspectors, appointed, for instance, by the board of trade. Mr. TRUESDALE. Can you tell me how many grades ott wheat there are? Mr. ANTHONY. Three or four. Mr. TRUESDALE. When wheat is inspected on board the cars and the inspector determines the grade of it, is not the warehouseman compelled to put it Pith that grade of wheat? Mr. ANTHONY. I think he is. All this inspection of grain amounts to very little. If we could regulate inspectionl and make that honest, I think it would bena good thing. In the New York Constitutional Convention of 1846, the whole system of appointing inspectors, gaugers and weighers was ventilated, an:d it abolished inspectors, gaugers and weighers of all sorts. In 1867 the same subject came up, was discussed, and the old provision retained. If we could fix the grade of the grain sent to Chicago, and make good wheat out of lbad, I should like it. I am in favor of many of the provisions which are contained in this warehouse bill, and if I were in the General Assembly would go for them, but it seems to me that we are spreading out thke organic law a little too much,7 as I believe the other provisions are sufficient. I move to strike this out. Mr. MEDILL. I understand my co} league [Mr. Anthony] tesay that th Gamble Parker, Goodell, Parks, Goodhue, Robinson, Haines of Co'k,Ross, Haines of L'k, Sedgwick, Hankins, Sharp, Harwood, Sherrill, Hayes, Snyder, Hildrup, Tincher, McCoyi Vandeventer, Medill, Wagner, Merriam, Wheaton, Moore, Wright-39. Allen of Alex.,Fuller, Scholfield, Archer, Hanna, Skinner, Atkins, Hart, Springer, Bowman, Hay, Tubbs, Bromwell, King, Underwood, Brown, McDowell, Wait, Bryan, Neece, Wall, Buxton, Perley, Wshburn, Cody, Peirce, Wendling, Craig, Pillsbury, Whiting,-Mn Kurt Cummings, Poage, Mr. President-33. 1700 CONSTITUTIONA.L CONVENTION THURSDAY, YEAS. Anthony, Browning, Eldredge, Forman, Fox, Rice, Sutherland, Truesdale, Turner, Wells Wil$o'n-11. WAYS. Abbott, Allen of Crfd. Anderson, Bayne, . Benjarain Cameron, Cary, Ch-urch, Coolbaugh, Crof3s, Dement, Ellis, English, ABSENT, OR NOT VOTING. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. r The PRESIDENT. The question is r upon the amendment offered by the genp tleman from Henry [Mr. Wait]. I The amendment was not agreed to The PRESIDENT. The question is , upon the adoption of the section, and it will be declared adopted. The question is upon section six, and it will be declared adopted. The quesoas un etion is upon section se ven, a nd it will be declar e d a dopted. Are there additional se ctions to be offered? Mr. FULLER. Mr. President: I have an additional se ction, which I wish read and adopted, as section one of this ar ticle. The Secr et ary read the e additional sec tion offere d by Mr. Fuller, a s fo llows: Be it enacted bv the people of the State of Illinois, in C onvent ion as sembled. [Laughter]. Mr. CARY. Mr. President: I move to lay t hat on the t able. The PRE SIDENT. It is la id o n the table a.3 not pertinent to the article. Mr. CARY. Mr. President: I move that the article be now referred to the Committee on Revision and Adjustment. The motion was agreed to. [The following is the article as referred to the Committee on Revision and An justment]. ARTICLE-. SECTION 1. All elevators or storehouses, where grain or other property is stored for a compensation, Whether the property stored is kept separate or not, are declared to be and shall be deemed public warehouses. SEC. 2. The owner, lessee or manager of each and every public warehouse situated in any town or city of not less than one hun dred thousand inhabitants, shall make week ly stat ements under oath before some officer, to be designated by law, and keep the same posted in some conspicuous place in the office of such warehouse, and shall also file a copy for public examination in such place as shall be designated by law, which, statement shall correctly set forth the amount and grade of each and every kind of grain in such warehouse, together swith such other lproperty as may be stored therein, and what warehouse receipts hvve been issued, and are at the time of making such statement outstanding therefor; and shall on the copy posted in the warehouse note daily such changes as may be made in the quantity and grade of grain in such warehouse; and the different grades of grain shipped in separate lots shall not be mixed with inferior or superior grades, without the consent of the owner or consignee thereof. SEC. 3. Owners of property stored in any warehouse, or holder of receipt for same, shall always be at liberty to examine such property stored, and all the books and records of the warehouse in regard to such property. SEC. 4. All railroad companies and other common carriers on railroads shall be required to weigh or measure grain, at points where it is shipped, and receipt for the full amount, and be held responsible for the dolivery of such amount to the owner or consignee thereof at the place of destination. FEE. 5. All railroad companies lreceiving and transporting grain, in bulk or otherwise, shall be requir ed to deliver the same to any elevator or public warehouse or consignee towhich it may be consigned, provided such elevator or public warehoused or consignee can be reached by any track owned, leased or used, or which can be used, by such railroad companies, and all railroad companies shall permit connectionls to be made with their track, 80 that any public warehouse or cowsignee may be reached by the cars on said railroad. SEC. 6. It shall be the duty of the General Assembly to sass all necessary laws to prevent the issue-of false and fraudulent warehouse receipts, and to give full effect to this article of the Constitution, which shall1 be liberally construed so as to protect producers and shippers. And the enumeration of th~ ed) said: Mr. President: I do not cone with my friend from Vermilion [1 Tincher], but think we had better sto legislation right here; and, therefore vote "No." The result was then announced-yet 22, nays, 27-as follows: the word "weigh" the words "or meas ure." I can im agine where the weight ca o be ascertained by measurement, and uu less there is objection, I move the amend meat. The PRESIDENT. The question i, upon the amendmen t offered by the genr tleman from Cook [Mr. Hayes]. Mr. TRUESDALE. Mr. President: ] hope the amendment will be adopted. I: the section is adopted as it now reads, it may wo rk great inconvenience for com mon carriers. ["That was stricken out."] Mr. TRUESDALE. The great bulk of shipping on the Illinois and Missis sippi rivers is in sacks. The steamboats receipt for so many sacks of grain, with out measurement and without weight. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the amendment proposed by the geintlemuan from Cook [Mr. Hayes]. The amendment offered by Mr. Hayes was agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is u pon edo t o the adoption of the section as amended. Section four, as amended, was agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the fifth section. Are there any amendments to be offered? The Secretary will read the section. The Secretary read section five, as fol lows: SEc. 5. All railroad companies receiving and transporting grain shall be required to de liver the same to any elevator or public ware house or consignee, to which it may be con signed, provided such elevator or public warehouse or consignee can be reached by any track owned, leased or used, or which can be used by such railroad companies; and all railroad companies shall permit connec tions to be made with their track, so that any public warehouse or consignee may be reach ed by the cars on said railroad, provided such connection is authorized by the legal authorities of any town or city in which such connection is desired. Mr. WHITING. Mr. President: This section provides that certain warehouses off a track may connect with a rail road. Everybody sees that this w'i,ll be a good thing. It gives greater breadth of business and coinpetition. It occurs to me there is an equal necessity for connecting coal yards and coal banks. It is known that there is a great monopoly in the matter, and that railroad companies discriminate in favor of some, against others. Now, if this principle be good as to warehouses, it will be, I think, equally good as to coal yards, and coal banlks. Coal is a flatter of prime necessity. It is an article of immense trade in Illinois} and railroads nosw have the power to make a monopoly. I move to insert in the sixth line, after the word "consignee," "or any coal yard or coal hank,' so that they may connsect with railroads on the same terms that warehouses do. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the amendment offered by the gentlemanl from Bureau [Mr. Whiting]. Mr. WHITING. Mr. President: I call for the yeas and nays. The yeas and nays were ordered. The Secretary proceeded to call the rolfl. Mr. TINCHER (when his name was called) said: As we are doing a big job of legislation, I do not see why we might not as well de it all.! vote "Aye."J Mr. PARES (when his name was call-* 426 YEAS. Hildrup, Tincher, Gamble, Turner, Haines,of CookUnderwood, Haines of L'ke,Wait, McCoy, Wells, Merriam, Wheaton Sherrill, Whiting-22. Allen, of Alx. Fox, Peirce, Anthony, Fuller, Pillsbury, Archer, Goodell, Poage, Atkins, Hankins, Scholfield, Bowman, Hanna, Skinner, Bromwell, Hart, Truesdale, Brown, Hay, Tubbs, Bryan, King, Wall, Buxton, McDowell, Washburn, Cody, N eece, Wendling, Craig, Perley, Mr. President-34. Cummings, So the amendment (-ffered by Mr. Whiting was not agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is on the adoption of section five. Mr. HAINES, of Lake. Mr. President: I move to strike out all after the word "railroad," in line six, so that this section shall have the effect intended. The PRESIDENT. The question is on the amendment offered by the gentleman from Lake [Mr. Haines]. A division was ordered. The Convention divided, when, there being fifteen in the affirmative and eleven in the negative, the amendment was agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the section. Mr. BAYNE. Mr. President: I move to amend by inserting after the word grain," in the first line, the words " in bulk or otherwise." We have received sufficient information from those who understand the matter to indicate that that is a necessary amendment. The amendment was agreed to. Mr. WAIT. Mr. President: In order to carry out the idea contained in the previous section, I move to amend by inserting after the word "companies," in the first line, the words "and common carriers on railroads " Mr. CHURCH. Mr. President: The g ntiemian from Henry [Mr. Wait] will see, I think, if he notices the;object of section five, that the amendment is not pertinent. The object of section five is to impose a duty upon the railroad company. There may be common carriers engaged in transporting upon railroads, not able to control the railroad and compel the connec- tion. The object is to impose the duty directly upon the railroad company. The amendment, therefore to this section does not apply as it did to the second osetion. M.&Y 57 1870. 1701 Abbott, Bayne, Benjamin, Browning, Cameron, Cary, Church, Eldredge, NATS. I ITarwood, Hayes, Modilf, Moore, Parker', Parks' Rice, Robinson, Ross, &IleuofCwfld, Anderson, Coolb'augh, CrossI Dement, Ellis, English, Forman, Goodhue, Sedgwick, Sharp, Snyder, Springer, Sutherland, Vandeventer, Wagner,. . Wilson Wright-27. ABSENT, OR NOT VOTING. -2.....................................~!.........................................I.............- -.:..,.I.-I.. t..I.... emdeheennmdhalntbcosre Sc.2...No...law...shall....be..passed.....by...the...Gen-...as...there....are...directors.......or..managers7... to..be SEc. 2. No law shall be passed by the Gen eral Assembly granting the right to construct or operate a street railroad within any city, town or incorporated village, without the consent of the local authorities having the control of the street or highway proposed to be occupied by such street railroad. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon concurring with the Committee of the Whole, in its first amendment, by which it struck out section one. The amendment was agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the second amendment, by which section two was stricken out. The amendment was agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the third amendment, by which section three was stricken out. The amendment was agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the adoption of section four. The Secretary read section four, as fo l lows: SEC. 4. The general Assembly shall pro-' vide, by law, that in all elections for directors or managers of incorporated companies, every stockholder shall have the right to vote, in person, or by proxy, for the number of shares of stock owned by him, for as many persons as there are directors or managers to be elected, or to cumulate said shares, and give one candidate as many votes as the number of directors, multiplied by the num ber of his shares of stock, shall equal, or to distribute them on the same principle among as many candidates as he shall think fit; and such directors or managers shall not be elected in any other manner, after the adoption ,f this Constitution. Section four was agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the adoption of the fifth section. The Se cretary read section five, as follows: SEC. 5. No law shall be passed by the General Assembly granting the right to construct and operate a street railroad within any city, town or incorporated village, without the concent of the local authorities having the control of the street or highway proposed to be occupied by such street railroad. Mr. ALLEN, of Crawford. Mr. Pres ident: I hope that amendmentof the Committee of the Whole will not be adopted. It puts it into the power of the street commissioners, those having control of the streets of a town, to say whether a railroad shall be built, or whether it shall not be built, And takes the power away from the legal authorities. Mr. HAINES, of Lake. I think the gentleman from Crawford [Mr. Allen] is mistaken. The street commissioners have no control, but are merely the agents of municipal authorities. The common council have control of the streets, themselves. The street commissioners are mere agents, at the discretion of the common council. vMr. HAINES, of Cook. If the word o"town" means township, I believe the supervisors or read commissioners have control. It seems to me this is a little too broad. Section five was agreed to. Mr. GOODHUE. Mr. President: I move that the article be referred to the Committee on Revision and Adjustment. The motion was agreed to. [The following is the article as referred to the Committee on Revision and Adisjutent:] remedies herein named shall not be construed to deny to the General Assembly the power to prescribe by law such o ther and further remedie s as may be found expedient, or to deprive a ers ny person of any existing common law remedies. SEc. 7. The General Ass embly shall pass laws for the inspection of grain, for the pro tection of producers, shippers and receivers of grain and produce. MISCELLANEOUS CORPORATIONS. Mr. McCOY. Mr. President; I now renew my motion to take up the next special order. The motion was agreed to. [The following is the report of the standing committee:] SECTION 1. The General Assembly may pass general laws uniform in their operation, tor the creation of corporations, but shall have no power to create any corporation by special act; and the General Assembly may, also by general laws, uniform in their opera tion, provide for renewing, extending and en larging existing charters, but shall pass no special act for any such purpose. S:Ec. 2. All laws.passed pursuant to the foregoing section may be by the General As sembly, from time to time, amended or re pealed. SEc. 3. The capital stock of corporations chartered by this State, shall not be increased in any way or for any purpose, except for cash actually paid into their treasury, or expended in the improvement of their property. A11 acts of incorporation heretofore passed, under which the corporators shall not organize and commence business pursuant to the acts of incorporation, within one year after the adoption of this Constitution, shall be null and void. Foreign corporations shall not transact business in this State without having at least o'ne permanent office therein, to be designated by law, where process can be served; nor until they shall have given such security as may be required by law for the performance of their obligations incurred in this State, which security shall be at least equal to such obligations; nor until they shall have paid such taxes as may by law be imposed upon them. The term corporation, as used in this article, shall be construed to include all associations and joint stock companies having any of the powers or privileges of corporations not possessed by individuals and partnerships. All corporations shall have the right to sue, and shall be subject to be sued in all courts, the same as natural persons. SEc. 4. The General Assembly shall provide by law, that in all elections for directors or managers of incorporated companies, every stockholder shall have the right to vote, in person or by proxy, for the number of shares of stock owned by him, for as many persons as there are directors or managers to be elected, or to cumulate said shares, and give one candidate as many votes as the number of directors, multiplied by the number of his ~hares of stock, shall equal, or to distribute them on the same principle among as many candidates as he shall think fit, and such directors or managers shall not be elected in any other manner, after the adoption of this Constitution. SEX. 5. No law shall be passe* by the General Assembly granting the right to construct and operate a street railroad within any city, town, or incorporated village, without the consent of the local authorities havinlg the control of the street or highway proposed to be occupied by such street railroad. [The following is the report of the Committee of the Whole], SEC. 1. The General Assembly shall provide, by law, that in all elections for directors or managers of incorporated companies, every stockholder shall have the right to vote, in person or by proxy,- for the number of shares of stock owned by him, for as many persons as- there are directors or managers to be elected, or to cumulate said shares, and give one candidate as many votes as the number of directors, multiplied by- the number of his shares of stock, shall equal, or to distribute them, on the same principle, among as many candidates as he shall think fit, and such directors or managers shall not be elected in any other manner, after the adoption of this onstitution.:" - SEc. -. The General Assembly shal!'provide by law, that in all elections for directors or managers of incorporated companies, every stockholder shall have the right to vote. in person or by proxy, for the number of shares of stock owned by him, for as many persons 1702 CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION FXIDAY, as there are directors or managers to be elected, or to cumulate said shares and give one candidate as many votes as the number of directors multiplied by the number of his F3hares of stock, shall equal, or to distribute them on the same principle among as many candidates as he shall think fit; and such directors or m-ainageri3 shall not be elected in any other manner, after the adoption of this Constitution. SF,c,. -. No law shall be passed by the General Assembly granting the right to construct and operate a street railroad within any city, town or incorporated village, without the consent of the local authorities havin the control of the street or highway proposed to be occupied by such street railroad. ADJOURNMENT. Mr.'GOODHUE. Mr. President: I move that the Convention do now adjourn. The motion was agreed to. So the Convention (at five o'clock and thirty minutes) adjourned. EIGHTY-NINTIT DAY. F.RIDAY, May 6, 1870. The Convention met at nine o'clock A. m., and was called to order by the Presi. dent. .PRAYIF,R. Prayer was offered by the Rev. 1VIr. Ingmire, of Springfield, as follows: Our Fatiaer who art in heaven, we bless and praise Thy Holy Name. for all the mer cies which we have experienced; for all the favor Thou hast shown to us in sparing our lives, and grantii3g us the use of our lives un impaired 6 disease, so that we are permitted to assemble in Convention for the purpose of attending to those dutier,.which devolve upon us. We thank Thee, 0 God, that Thou hast sent upon the earth Thy refreshing rain this mornil,91 bringing a strengthening air. We pray Thee that Thy servants here may be strengthened and rightly directed in discharging those obligations which are connected with alteriDg and amending the Constitution, so that it may produce great benefits to the people of this commonwealth. We a Thee through Jesus Christ, the Great gdyiator, to send Thy blessing on the officers of the State, and the officers of this Convention. All the duties connected with their position, may they discharge in such a man-per as shall be productive of great good, and produce a Constitution distinguished for wisdom, and fraught with those results that will secure justice and peace to the people. May peace and harmony prevail in their de. liberations, and let any bitterness that may arise in debate cease with the settinz BUD. We pray Thee further to send T bles?,ing I ny member of this body who may be Upnetaed in any way. And we entreat Thee, finally, that in all that is connected with life's duties, Thy bles' may rest upon us, so that when our i8ol119. are over here, we may find rest in heaven, through Christ our Rec eemer.. Amen. READING OF THE JOIJRNAL. The Secretary proceeded to read the journal of the last day's proceedings, when Mr BUXTON. Mr. President: I move that the further reading of the journal be dispensed with. T'ne motion was agreed to. Q-UESTION OF PRIVILEGE. Mr. UNDERWOOD. Mr. President: I rise to a privileged question. The Chiago Times and Tribune,, of yesterday pub. lish the following: Mr. Underwood contended that the right of eminent domain -ave no power to the State to condemn railroads to public ures, and that the Legislature had power to make contracts with individuals and corporations which placed them beyond future control. I took no such ground, Mir, but the coa MAY 6, 1870. DEBATES A~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~D P~~~~~~~~O~~~~i~~~~E~~~~~tNG8. 1703~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ know, anything about this, except so far as the public records testify. I do not know whether Chicago actually got the $800,000 or not. I am informed by the gentleman from Cook [Mr. Medill], that she did not, but I inter that she has been tendered the money from a remark that he makes, and that is that she indignant ly spurns the receipt of it. I suppose the true history of the case is that Chica go has been tendered the $800,000. Mr. HAINES, of Cook. No, sir; she has only been tendered $200,000. Mr. HAYES. Mr. President: Iwould like to ask the gentleman from William son [Mr. Washburn], a question, While he is on that subject I will ask him if he does not know that that $800, 000 was to be paid to the city of Chicago for three blocks of property, her title to which was unquestioned, and which were worth $2,000,000? Mr. WASHBURN. I do not know. Mr. HAYES. That is the fact. Mr. WASHBURN. I do not know, Mr. President, how may blocks there were, or what the title was, or how much they were worth. I am wholly unac quainted with that. I know nothing of the property nor its title, except from what appeared in the "lake front" bill. Mr. HAINES, of Cook. M. Presi dent: I would say to the gentleman that the people of Chicago held a large mass meeting while that bill was under consid eration in the Legislature, and protested against it-they were unanimous in their protest against the swindle upon the people of Chicago. Mr. WASHBURN. That mnay all be true. I do not know anything about that. I believe I do know, however, from the records, that at least three members from Cook county voted for the lake front bill. Mr. MEDILL. We had nine members here. Mr. WASHBURN. I supposed Cook county had only seven members of the house at the time. I have not examined the record of the senate journal, but I believe that three of the members from Cook county, in the house, voted for it Mr. HAINES, of Cook. Five voted a g ainst the bill. Mr. WASHBURN. I cannot, Mr. President, very well know a great deal about this transaction, except what I find in the published records. The published laws of the State of Illinois, make a do - nation to the county of Cook, and so far as the law shows, without any consideration whatever of-i All right, title and interest of the State of Illinois in and to so much of fractional section fifteen (15), township thirty-nine (39), range fourteen (14), east of the third principal meridian, in the city of Chicago, county of Cook and State of Illinois, as is situated east of Michigan avenue and north of Park Row, and south of the south line of Monroe street, and west of a line running parallel with and four hundred feet east of the west line of said Michigan avenue, being a strip of land four hundred feet in width, including said avenue along the shore of Lake Michigan, and partially submerged by the waters of said lake, are hereby granted in fee to the said city of nd Cago, with full power and authority to sell and convey all of said tract east of said avenue. leaving said avenue ninety (90) feet in width, in such manner and upon sueh terms as the common council of said city may by ordinance provide. The act then goes on to say that this shall go into the Chicago park fund.i This is not the eight hundred thousand dollars, but it is an entirely distinct and additional donation more munificent, more magnificent than Coesar ma de t o th e Roman peo ple, of his ground s beyond the Tiber. Mr. MEDILL. The "donation" the gentleman refers to is a donation of our own prope rty to ourselves, and the eight hundred th ou sand dollars that the gen tleman refers to covers three blocks, two of which were conveyed to Chicago by the Federal government direct, for park purposes, and to which the State never had a shadow of a title. The whole of lake front belongs to the people of Chi cago as a public park for public use, and they are resisting the effort of the Legis. lature to give any of it to railways with out their consent. Mr. WHEATON. I rise to a question of order. I would inquire if we are not running under the five minute rule? The PRESIDENT. The Chair does not regard a question of privilege as coming within the rule. At the same time the Chair is constrain ed to say that much of this discussion does not come within therule permitting parties under claim of privilege to dis cuss their position upon questions that have been before the Convention. Gen tlemen must be limited to an explanation of the position they have heretofore taken, and discussion on the part of other members is not in order. Mr. WASHBURN. I wish to say, in addition to that, that the munificent do nation is not a part of the eight hundred thousand dollars referred to, but that an other large piece of land-it may adjoin the same land, but is described differently in this bill-was given to the three rail roads on condition of their paying to the city of Chicago eight hundred thousand dollars, which was also to go into the park fund. It may be true that Chicago may have rights in the land, and it may be true that Chicago in regard to this tract of land given to railroads on this condition, may claim it like she does the others, for it may be that Chicago would rather have it all than to have the eight hundred thousand dollars. I un derstand they are either prosecuting or defending a suit on the ground that all this land. belongs to them. Perha-ps Chicago has a good title to the land, and if she has, she ought to have it. I[ did not say that Cook county had received $800,000 from the public treasury. My speech does not show that, whatever inference may be drawn from it. The public lasw, by which she is to get $800,000, bears out every particle of the asertion I made, and I do not know, nor do I care whether Chicago refuses to receive the money or not. The terms of that law give it to her,~ and justify every word I said in regard to it. And whether the $800,000 is to be paid by the three railroads or by the State Treasurer is wholly immaterial. Mr. TINCHER. I hope I may be indulged, perhaps a minute or two, upon this question-having been a member of the senate at the time this question was discussed —in order to do julstice to the representatives from Cook county. The PRESIDENT. The Chair must sy that the conduct of the representatives of Cook county in the Legislature is not a proper matter for discussion at the present time. QUESTION OF PRIVILEGE —AGAIN. Mr. WASHBURN. Mr. President-, I rise to a privileged question. In the debate on the day before yesterday, the honorable member from Cook [Mr. Me dill] matte reference to some remarks I had made on the dav before, as follows: The gentleman from Williamson [Mr. Washburn] said yesterday that Cook county had taken eight hundred thousand dollars of money out of the State treasury. If he liter ary meant what he said, then he did not know what he was talking about, when he made such a remarkable statement. He must certainly have referred to something else. I wish to say that I entertain the very kindliest feelings for him, that my feelings are not even rasped by these remarks of the gentleman from Cook [Mr. Medill], but I think it due to myself that I should be set aright before the public, especially in our records. The official report of the speech he referred to, is published, and I believe is in the precise language used. I will read the portion referred to. And here I wish to make one remark, and that if it is a steal law, or stealage law, I wish to remind gentlemen of a homely adage, that there should at least be " honor among thieves," and that while Chicago gets eight hundred thousand dollars, and the canal gets four hundred thousand dollars, in exchange for the proposed benefits the other counties might derive from building their railroads, under the law of 1869, I insist that justice requires they shall have the benefit of the contract. I believe that is the strongest language used by me, and that is "that while Chicago gets eight hundred thousand dollars." There is no specific charge as to whether it was received from the State treasury or not. As to whether it had been drawn out of the State treasury, was a matter with which I was not acquainted, but supposed it was to be paid by the three railroad companies, as directed by the law which granted it. I was also questioned by another gentleman from Cook [Mr. Haines], as follows: Mr. HAINES, of Cook. Mr. President: I understand that the gentleman said that Chicago had received eight hundred thousand dollars. I would like to know what it was in? To which I replied as follows: Mr. WASHBURN. Well, Mr. President: I do not know, for I was not there when the eight hundred thousand dollars was paid. I suppose it was in money. I did not then know, nor do I nfw MA.Y 6) 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS-., 1-703 trarv. I contended that the General Assembly had full power to condemn the property of corporations, exactly the same as the property of individuals-that it had a right to control them by police regulations in the same manner. In this same issue of the Times, it is also stated that I contended that these charters should be construed liberally. I stated directly the contrary, that they should be construed strictly as against the public. In further explanation, I contended that the General Assembly, had a right to authorize the construct-Lon ofplank roads, machdamized roads and railroads by private corporations, to allow them to collect reasonable toll therefor, and that any attempt to violate such charter contracts after such charters had been granted, and money had been expended under them, was clear, blank repudiation, calculated to bring the State into public scandal, infdmy and disgrace-and I stand by my position. 170 COSIUINL(ONETO DY most, if not all, weekly newspapers published in the State, in the English, German and Scandinavian languages, and that by inducing those newspapers to publish it in this way, we should probably secure their favorable notice of it. We therefore thought we could in no other way give such general information in regard to it, as by adopting this plan. We therefore ask that the first resolution be adopted. In regard to the second resolution, we have somewhere between five and ten thousand French voters —who read no newspapers except those in the French language. It is something of a l;ask to translate the Constitution into the Fi ench language. I will say further, that there are some settlements of Italians, and one Italian newspaper published in the State, and we thought it nothing but just that they should be paid for making a translation. It will not be a lull compensation, but it will be sufficient to induce them to do it. By that means our French and Italian citizens will have an opportunity of reading the Constitution, and understanding it. The committee will not recommend any further translation to be given to these classes of voters. In regard to the Germans and Scandinavian s, we shall have to provide for a translation of the Constitution by competent men, so that papers published in these languages can have it. These papers will receive only their thirty dollars. I therefore move the adoption of the resolution. Mr. FULLER. I move the resolution be referred to the Committee on Accounts and Expenditures of the Convention. The PREqIDENT. It is a report of one of the standing committees of the Convention, and referring such a report is not in order. It may, however, be referred as a resolution. Mr. MEDILL. Mr. President; Before the vote is put on the question to refer the report of the committee, I wish to say a word in addition to what the chairman has stated. The committee intend to provide for the publication of a pamphlet edition of the Constitution in several languages. We intend to offer that in a separate provision. This report simply provides for the publication of the Constitution in the country press of the State. We find by calculation that to print pamphlet copies enough to furnish every voter with a copy, would cost, perhaps, ten times as much, including postage, as the method recommended by the comrm ittee. The publication of the Constitu tion, in the weekly press of the State, will cost less than the mere post-age would on pamphlets to be sent to the people, even if we had a list of the names of the voters of the State. The method proposed by the committee will insure the placing of the Constitution before not less than 250,000 voters, in addition to those who can be reached by the daily press, or, perhaps, by any pamphlet edi tion that this Convention would authorize. The amount proposed to be paid to the weekly press, will merely reimburse them for the expense of type-setting and expenses incidental thereto. As the Constitution will be important news, we felt that the press of the State would not e rpect to be paid regular advertising rates for publishing it. The method proposed will speedily and surely reach a quarter of a million of voters, at least, for every editor will s end his paTpers to his subscribers, promnptly. The Convention can, hereafter, consider what number of pamphlets they desire to have printed in the English, German and other languages. The Printing Committee will make a recommendation on that subject, at an early day or hour. Mr. WAGNER. Mr. President: With all due deference to the gentleman from Cook [Mr. Medill], I hope the resolution will not be adopted, but that it will be referred. It will cost the State from $12,000 to $20,000 if that resolution should be adopted now or hereafter. I think the people are pretty well posted upon the merits of our proposed Constitution, and will be able to vote in telligently upon it. They will under stand, by the time we get through, pretty well what our Constitution contains through our debates, and most of the papers that have a large circulation, will publish without remuneration. Mr. MEDILL. Mr. President: It will be 2000 additional in each county-an average of sixty dollars to the county. Mr. WAGNER. Mr. President: Any paper throughout the State will publish the Constitution without pay. Mr. ANTHONY. Mr. President: Is it not the opinion of the gentleman that these papers will have patriotism enough to publish without remuneration? Mr. WAGNER. I think so, Mr. Presi dent, and the proposition under consid eration is extravagant. Mr. SNYDER. Mr. President: What is the reason for discriminating between French, German, Scandinavian, etc.? Mr. TURNER. Mr. President: Itis proposed to translate the document into German and Scandiiia;'ian. This transla tion, papers published in these languages can use, but the object is to pay the pub lishers of the French and Italian papers for translating as well as publishing. There is but one French and one Italian newspaper published in this State, while there are several German and Scandina vian papers. Mr. FULLER. Mr. President: I hope the matter will be referred. I am satisfied that the Convention is not prepared at this time to act upon the question. Mr. ROSS. Mlr. President: I merely desire, with the gentlemnan s permission, to say that I concur with him in his suggestio3n to refer. The Convention is noCt prepared to decide upon this question now. Mr. FULLER. Mr. President. There is a large share of the people who do not subscribe to any weekly newspaper. If we should publish in pamphlet fo)rm, a much smaller number than the number of voters in the State will answer. Besidas, this resolution makes no provision for the publication of the address proposed to accompany the Constitution, and whi~:h could be published in connection with the pamphlet. Thus the whole could be preserved and this Constitution in connection with the address or explanation of the committee would go together before the people, and be much better understood, and at a much less cost to the people, than if the Constitution alone be published in a new~spaper. t ADDRESS TO THE PEOPLE. Mr. SPRINGER. Mr. President: I move that the resolution introduced yes terday by the gentleman from Greene [Mr. English] be referred to the Committee on Miscellaneous Subjects. The Secretary read the resolution introduced by Mr. English, as follows: Resolved, That th e Presiden t of the Convention appoint a committee, consisting of nine members, to prepare an address to the people of the State, to accompany the Constittition explaining the same, and urging its adoption. The PRESIDENT. The question is on the motion of the gentleman from Madison [Mr. Springer] to commit the resolution to the Committee on Miscellaneous Subjects. The motion was agreed to. TRANSLATING AND PRl TIiNG CONSTITU TION. The PRESIDENT. Rep or ts of stantlding commit tees ar e in order. Mr. TURNER. 3Ir. President: I am i nstructed byt hle Committee'on Printing and Bitdinag t o int rodu ce the following resolutions: The Secretary read the resolutions offered by the Committee on Printing and Binding, as follows: PUBLICATION OF NEW CONSTITUTION. Resolved, That the publishersIof every weekly newspaper published in this State, in the English, German or Scandinavian language, who shall publish in full the Constitution prepared by this Convention, in a regular issue of such newspaper, shall be entitled to receive therefor the sum of thirty dollars, to be paid out of the State treasury: Provi ded, a copy of such newspaper shall be filed with the Secretary of State, containing the Constitution, together with the affidavit of the editor or publisher thereof, that the same had been published in a regular issue of such newspaper thirty days prior to the day on which said Constitution shall be sabmitted to the people for ratification or rejection. Resol,~ed, That the publisher of any weekly newspaper in this State, published in the French or Italian language, who shall translate and publish said Constitution in such newspaper, shall be entitled to receive there7 for one hundred dollars out of the State treasury, upon filing with the Secretary of State a copy of the newspaper containing such translated copy of the Constitution, together with an affidavit that such translated cop)y had been published in such newspaper thirft days prior to the day on which the Constitution shall be submitted to the people for adoption or rejection. Mr. TURNER. Mr. President: After rery mature deliberation on the part of the committee, it was thought a resolution of this kind would probably secure the publication of the Consitution in 1704 CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION FRIDAY, ORDER OF BUSINESS. Mr. BUXTON. I move that the report of the Committee of the Whole on railroad corporations be now taken up. The PRESIDENT. The Chair will state that an order postponed yesterday, the resolution presented by the gentleman from Greene [Mr. Et3glish], is unf:Lnished business, and takes precedence. Mr. TURNER. Mr. President: I will interrupt the present order of business to introduce some resolutions from the Committee on Printing and Binding. Mr. CROSS. Mr. President: I have a proposition that I wish to present, upon the subject of the removal of county seats. I will send it to the Secretary and ask him to read it. The PRESIDENT. Propositions are -not now in order-only petitions and communications. MAY 6, 1870. ])EBATES AD PRoaEEDIGs. 1705 I our own pockets or out of the public treas 1, ury. If distributed, as it ought to be distrib h uted, in pamphlet form, the postage alone a- will cost as much as the publication in y these newspapers. It is cheaper to publish it in the pa n pers, and doing so will bring our work - home into almost every family in the s State, for there are few families who can e read at all but what take some news paper, political or religious. Mr. TURNER. Mr. President: The - postage alone will cost, according to our s estimate, more than double as much. y Mr. ALLEN, of Crawford. I have not s made any calculations on this subject, but r I know it would be a very considerable l sum, and would impose very considerable labor. It ought to be our purpose to - place a copy of this Constitution in th e i hands of every voter, and that purpose y will be more nearly accomplished by its e publication in the weekly papers than in ) any other way that I can imagine. - If it be published in pamphlet form, r and distributed among the constituents of each member, I tell gentlemen that - there are thousands of those pamphlets r that will never reach their destination, 1 and that there will be neighborhoods all 1 through the different districts where c very few persons will have the privilege , of examinig them. But publish it in the a weekly newspapers, and, I repeat, there is 1 scarcely a family that will not get to see d it. A newspaper can pass from hand to , hand as well as a pamphlet. e As a matter of economy and labor sav ing I am for the report of the committee, and I think it ought to be adopted. Mr. ANTHONY. Mr. President: t Whatever the final disposition of this matter may be, whether the Constitution - be published in the weekly papers of the I State or not, I hope that we will publish t it in pamphlet form. f I believe, Mr. President, that every i weekly newspaper in the State of Illinois will publish this Constitution whether t paid?or it or not. Now, there are about four hundred weekly newspapers in the r State, of one kind and another Mr. MEDILL (in his seat). We have only two hundred and fifty names on our list. Mr. ANTHONY. Mr. Rummell's hand, book shows that there are about four hunr dred weekly newspapers in the State. p Mr. CAMERON. Mr. President: I w would correct the gentleman's statement. 3 There are but two hundred weekly news. papers in the State of Illinois. M -Mr. ANTHONY. That may be the d opinion o f some gentlemen Mr. CAMERON. I state it as a fact. ; Mr. ANTHONY. I may be mistaken, L but I think the number will be found to ti greatly exceed that. C If there are four hundred weekly pa> pers, and we pay them thirty dollars apiece, that will be twelve thousand dol lars. Now, Mfr. President, in 1862, as we , were closing our labors, this matter came i up. There were seventy five members in ! that Convention. We ordered seventy, five thousand copies of the proposed Conl stitution to be published in pamphlet form, and gave one thousand copies to each p member. They were sent to us after the , adjournment, and distributed. To have this Constitution go out sim ply in a weekly newspaper is, in my ' judgment, not exactly the right way of Mr. CAMERON. -Mr. President: hope the motion to refer will not prevail for two reasons. In the first place, witt all due respect to ge ntlemen on the Com mittee on Convention Expenditures, the do not know any more about printind and distributing these documents than the Printing Committee, and in the sec ond place they are not more anxious than the Printing Committee that the strictest economy should be enforced. Gentlemen ask now to take the work out of the hands of the Printing Coom mittee and refer it to another. Thi buncombe about expenditure is prett3 well played out. We have reported thi resolution because it was our duty. Res olution upon resolution has been referred to us, instructing and desiring us to re port the cost of publishing the Constitu tion in these country newspapers, and also asking us to report on the expediency of doing so. The Constitution must be published in some way, and we had tc determine, first, the cheapest way to pub lish, and secondly, the best medium for circulating it. We found we could publish the Con stitution in all the weekly papers at fax less expense than we could circulate it in pamphlet form. By so doing, we will carry it before the people of every party -republican, democratic, independent, and some religious papers will publish it-at a cost not to exceed six thousand dollars. This will include not only printing, but postage, and other expense and secure the attention of bona,ide readers. I think that we cannot print this Con stitution in pamphlet form at less than twice that amount, and then we cannot circulate it in so satisfactory a manner. This report is in the interest of econo my, and I hope it will not be disposed of in the way suggested. The subject should either be kept in the hands of the Printing Committee or placed in other hands for final action. The six thousand dollars we propose to spend will be a good investment for the people of the State, and will bring the new Constitution, under the eye of every one able to read, from one end of the State to the other. Mr. TINCHER. Mr. President: I hope the resolution will not be referred but passed, for I believe it is right. I do not think all the papers of the State will or can publish it, but I think this is one of the means by which the masses will find out what is in the Constitution. Mr. ROSS. Mr. President: I have no desire to express at this time any opinion against the report of the committee, for I regard it rather favorably, but I do not think they should press us to a vote in ten minutes after it is announced to the Convention. We have not had time to consider it. It should be laid over a while for consideration. -- Mr. ALLEN, of Crawford. Mgr. President: The proposition of the Printing Committee strikes me with favor, as the best means of laying our work before the mass of the citizehs. If we relyr simply on the publication in pamphlet form, thousands on thousands -of voters wjl! never see it, as its distribultiqn must depend on the members of this Convention or others, which, gentlemen well know, imposes a very considerable labor an~d expense. We will have to pay that exp)ense for distribution and lpostage out of 427- doingl things. If this document is im portant enough to be the Constitution of the State of Illinois, in my judgment it is of importance enough to be put in so con. venient a form that everybody can have it and read it. Mr. IIEDILL. Mr. President: I would say to the gentleman that the com mittee have not reported that there should not be a pamphlet edition printed. We intend to report in favor of a pamphlet edition. The newspaper edition is auxil iary thereto. Air. ANTHONY. That being so, I have no objection, provided it does not cost too much; but I think the correct way is to put this Constitution in a pamphlet form, where every citizen can take it up and read it correctly. The gentleman says all can read it in a newspaper. I admit it. But those same newspapers will, I think, print it any how. In every State that I know of, where Constitutions have recently been got up, they have been published in pamphlet form, for circulation through the commu nities. If we want to publish'it in news paper, and then in pamphlet, I am per fectly willing, but I am opposed to pay ing every country newspaper, or every paper in the State, a sum of money for publishing it. I believe the papers of the State are sufficiently patriotic to pub lish a Constitution proposed for the peo. ple without pay. If nobody else does, I will introduce a resolution, at the proper time, that one thousand pamphlets be furnished each member, containing the Constitution and the address, for distribution among his constituents. I do not object to publish ing this Constitution in every language, and in every form, but I think we should, at least, have it printed in a pamphlet form. Mr. PARKS. Mlr. President: I agree with the gentleman from Cook [MNr. An thony] almost entirely. I am opposed to paying any newspaper in the State one single dollar for publishing the Constitu tion. It is} in part, because they publish such things, that we take papers and pay for them, and a newspaper, whether a weekly or a daily, that will not publish a document that the people of the State are so much interested in, ought not to be patronized. It is UDjUSt to the press to suppose that it will not publish this Con. stitution without pay. Most of the papers in the State have published our proceedings so far-they will publish the Constitution, of course. I am told by some who profess to know, that the reporting and printing of this Convention has already cost from two to four times as much as it was estimated at, enough to make the people of the State wince, when they come to know what that cost is. Now we are called upon to embark in another expense for printing that will amount to from $107000 to $15,000, and which, in my opinion, is perfectly useless. i am decidedly in favor of publishing the Constitution in a pamnphlet, if we are going to pay out any money for publishing it. Let each member have two hundred, five hundred, or one thousand copies, as may be finally determined to be best. One pamphlet will last longer than a dozen newspapers. - :But I am opposed to any expense forprinting, in any way beyond the expendse M.&Y , 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1705 170 (OSTTTOA ()NETO FRIDAY alrad inurd an htncsaiywihsi osiuinsal esbite o TePEIET h usini already incurred, and that necessarily follow the contracts that we have already made. Mr. ENGLISH. I move that this subject be p ostponed u ntil M onday. Mr. HAYES. I do not see that there is any antagonism between the proposition to print the Constitution in newspapers, and that to print in pamphle t form. The PRESIDENT. The Chair will state, that upon a motion to postpone, the merits of the question are not open to discussion. Mr. HAYES. I will confine my remarks to the question of postponement. I suppose th at th e Constitution, when it is written out, will have to be printed in pamphlet form before it can reach the sli fferent newspapers of the State. How will we secure t o each of them a correct copy? Will we send a written copy from the office of the Secretary of State to every newspaper in the State? We would be obliged to print the Constitution in pamphlet first, to give them a copy, and the passage of this resolution will not prevent the adoption of a proposition to that effect. I would be willing to postpone the proposition, if necessary, for a more mature consideration, but am ready now to vote upon the proposition to print in the newspapers of the State, supposing that a provision will be made to furnish them a correct copy ill pamphlet form, and to furnish the people copies in pamphlet form for comparison, that they may be informed exactly of the provisions of the Constitution. Mr. SNYDER. The gentleman savs it will first be necessary to print in pamphlet before it can reach the newspapers. There is no necessity for that. One copy printed in one of the Chicago papers, would be enough to send out all over the State. Mr. HAYES. Mr. President: We should first provide for its being printed, and for a correct copy being printed. Mr. MEDILL. Mr. President: That correct copy could be printed in one of the Springfield papers. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the motion to postpone the resolu tions to Monday morning next. The motion was not agreed to. Mr. McDOWELL. Mr. President: Is it in order to move the previous question, upon the recomlmend-ation of the Com mittee on Printing and Binding? The PRESIDENT. It ix in order. Mr. McDOWDLL. Then, Mr. Presi dent, I make that motion. The motionsifor the previous question was agreed to, and the main question or dered. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the adoption of the resolutions re ported by the gentleman from Stephen. son [M~r. Turner]. The Secretary read the resolutions, as follows: .Resolved, That the publisher of every week ly newspaper published in this State in the English, German or Scandinavian language, who shall publish in full the Constitution prepared by this Convention, in a regular is sue of such newspaper, shall be entitled to re ceive therefor the sum of thirty dollars, to be paid out of the State treasury: Provided, a copy of such newspaper shall be filed with ~he Secretary of State containing the Consti tution, together with the affidavit of the edi tor or publisher thereof that the same had been published in a regular issue of such newspaper, thirty days prior to the dayr on which said Constitution shall be submitted to the people for ratification or rejection. Resolved, That the publisher of any weekly newspaper in this State, published in the French or Italian language, who shall translate and publish said Constitution in such newspaper, shall be entitled to receive therefor one hundred dollars out of the State treasury upon filing with the Secretary of State a copy of the newspaper containing such trans. lated copy of the Constitution, together with an affidavit that such translated copy had been published in such newspaper thirty days prior to the day on which the Constitution shall be submitted to the people for adoption or rejection. Mr. ROSS. Mr. President: I desire, if it is in order, to have a division as to the $100 and the $30. The PRESIDENT. They are distinct resolutions, and the sense of the Convention may be taken on each of them separately. Mr. ROSS. Have the committee made any provision for more than one insertion in the paper, Mr. President? Mr. MeMOWELL. Mr. President: I raise a point of order, viz: that the previous question having been ordered, neither debate nor inquiry is in order. The PRESIDENT. The point of order is sustained. All inquiry and debate is out of order. The question is up on the first resolutior. The Secretary read the first resolution offered by the Committee on Printing and Binding, as follows: Resolved, That the publisher of every weekly newspaper published in this State in the English, German or Scandinavian language, who shall publish in full the Constitution prepared by this Convention, in a regular issue of such newspaper, shall be entitled to receive therefor, the sum of thirty dollars, to be paid out of the State treasury: Provided a copy of such newspaper shall be. filed with the Secretary of State, containing the Constitution together with the affidavit of the ed itor or publisher thereof, that the same has been published in a regular issue of such newspaper, thirty days prior to the day on which said Constitution shall be submitted to the people for ratification or rejection. The yeas and nays were ordered, and being taken, resulted-yeas, 43, nays, 19 -as follows: The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the adoption of the second resolut ion. The Secretary read the second resolution, reported by the Committee on Printing and Binding, as follows: Resolved, That the publisher of any weekly newspaper in this State, published -in the French or Italian language, who shall translate and publish said Constitution in such newspaper shall be entitled to receive one hundred dollars out out of the State treasury, upon filing with the Secretary of State a copy of the newspaper containing such translated copy of the Constitution, together with an affidavit that such translated copy had been published in such newspaper thirty days prior to the day on which the Constitution shall be submitted to the people for adoption or rejection. Mr. WHEATON. Is an amendment in order? The PRESIDENT. It is not. Mr. WHEATON. I should like to include Chinese papers. Mr. HAINES, of Lake. Put in African. Mr. MEDILL. There are two papers in the State-one French and one Itali an. The yeas and nays were ordered, and, being taken, resulted yeas 28,'nays 34 as follows: TEAS. Allen, of Cr'fd,Gamble, Sharp, Anderson, Haines of Cook,Sutherland Buxton, Haines of Lake,Tincher, Cameron, Hankins, Truesdale, Cody, Hayes, Turner Craig, McCoy, Underwood, Cummings, McDowell, Vandeventer, Eldredge, Medill, Wells, English, Rice, Wendling-28. Forman, Sedgwick, Sherrill, Snyder, Springer, Tubbs, Wagner, W,it, Washburn, Wheaton, Whiting, Wilson —34. YEAS. Allen of Cr'fd.,Haines of Co'k,Sharp, Anderson, Haines of Lake,Snyder, Buxton, Hankins, Springer, Cameron, Hay, Sutherland, Cary, Hayes, Tincher, Church, King, Truesdale, Cody, McCoy, Turner, Coolbaugh, McDowell, Underwood, Craig, Medill, Vandeventer, Cummings, Parker, Wait, Eldredge, Peirce, Washburn, English, Rice, Wendling, Forman, Ross, Whiting, Gamble, Sedgwick, Wilson43. Goodhue, ABSENT, OR NOT VOTING. Allen of Alex., Dement, Pillsbury, Arche r, Fox, Poage, Atkins, Hanna, sadSchol fiel d, Bowman, Hart, Skinner, Bromwell, Hay, Wall, Brown, Neece, Wright, Bryan, Perley, Mr. President-1. So the second resolution reported by the Committee on Printing and Binding, was not agreed to. Mr. TURNER. Mr. Presi dent: That resolution being lost, it will now be necessary to have a change made in the original resolution,. because as it now stands it would entirely leave out the French and Italian newspapers. As was stated, there is but one Italian and one French newspaper published in the State, and the object of giving them one hundred dollars was that they should translate the Constitution into their language, -and so save the State the exo pense of a translation. But as the second resolution has not vbeen adopted, and these papers are not included in the first resolution, I would suggest that they be inserted in the first resolution, so that they may be included with all other papers. The PRESIDENT. It will be- so or dered by general consent. ABSENT, OR NOT VOTING. Allen of Alex.,Dement, Poage, Archer, Fox, Scholfield, Atkins, Hanna, Skinner, Bowman, Hart, Wall, Bromwell, Neece, Wells Brown, Perley, Wright, Bryan, Pillsbury, Mr. President-21. So the first resolution reported by the Committee on Printing and Binding was adopted. 1 CONSTITUTIONAL CON'VENTION FRIDAY, 1'706 NA.YB. Goodhue, Harwood, .'ildrup - -- I : lng, . erriam, Moore, Parker, Parks, Peirce, Robinson, Ross, Abbott, Anthony, Bayne, Benjamin, Browning, Cary, Church,. Coolbaugh, Cross, Ellil3, Fuller, Goodell, NAIYB. Fuller, Goodell, Harwood, Hildrup, Merriam, Moore, Abbott, Anthony, Baype,. Benjamin, Browning, Cross, Ellis, Parks, Robinson, Sherrill. Tubbs, Wagner, Wh-eaton-19. MAY 6, 1876. DEBATES AM) PROCEEDJ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~GS. 1707~~~~~~~~~ would say that my reason for proposing to place it here is, that here is a specific proposition to allow certain interests to be connected with railroads, and the same principle may be made to apply to coal banks and coal yards; it seems to me that this is the proper place. I must express my surprise that this proposition received so small a vote yesterday, but I believe it was from it not being understood. I am surprised that my friends in the Rock River country, where coal is so much used and so expensive, should have opposed this measure for free competition and cheap coal. It is of no personal interest to me, but I think there is nothing we can do that will so much promote the general interest, as to allow "free trade" in this matter of coal. I hope my democratic friends will illustrate their sentiments in favor of "free trade" in coal, and our republican friends also, who at least believe in "free trade" at home. Mr. ROSS. Mr. President: I would inquire if the gentleman knows of any instance that would afford an argument for his proposition? Is there any failure on the part of railroads to connect? Are they not all anxious for the coal trade? It seems tome this is a question about which there will be no trouble. Mr. WHITING Mr. President: I will answer that I have heard complaints of the officers of roads in this regard, but I do not know how those general com- T plaint may be. It is easy to see that the same spirit that makes this provision necessary for warehouses, makes it necessary also for coalbanks. This is fully as great an interest and as much deserves protection. Mr. UNDERWOOD. Mr. President: There are twenty-five coalbanks between my city and St. Louis, and there has been complaint that the railroad has not always afforded these banks equal facilities for market. I think the men of enterprise engaged in mining should be protected as vell as any other class in the community. Mr. ANDERSON. Mr. President: I move the previous question. The motion for the previous question was agreed to and the main question ordered. The PRESIDENT. The ques tion i s on the adoption of the resolution, and the Secretary will read. The Secretary read the resolution offered by Mr. Whiting, as follows: iResolved, That the Committee on Revision and Adjustment are instructed to insert in the "warehouse article," section five, in the sixth line, after the word "consignee" the following words: "or any coal bank, or coal yard," so that the section shall then read- d All railroad companies receiving and transporting grain shall be required to deliver the same to any elevator or public warehouse or consignee, to which it may be consigned, pro —vided sush elevator or public warehouse or consignee can be reached by any track owned, leased or used, or which can be used by such railroad companies; and all railroad companies shall permit connections to be made with m their track so that ~ny public warehouse or consignee, or any coal bank or coal yard may be reached by the cars on said railroad. The PRESIDENT. By general consent the proviso will be stricken out of the resolution. The question is on the adoption of the resolution. The-yeas and nays were ordered, and, being taken, resulted-yeas, 43; nays, 15 -as follows: - - YEAS. Gamble, Sherrill, Goodhue, Snyder, Haines of Cook, Springer Haines of Lake, Sutherland, Hankins, Tincher, Hayes, Truesdale, King, Tubbs, McCoy, Turner, Medill, Underwood, Merriam, Wagner, Moore, Wait, Parker, Washburn, Perley,' Whiting Sedgwick, Wilson-4. PRINTING THE CONSTITUTION. Mr. ANTHONY. Mr. President: I desire to offer a resolution, which I will read: Resolved, That the Secretary of State cause to be printed by the printer of this Convention, in pamphlet form, eighty-five thousand copies of the proposed Constitution, and address; each member of the Convention to have sent him one thousand of said pamphlets, which shall be printed and sent to the members of this Convention for distribution, within thirty days from the adjournment of this Convention. The PRESIDENT. The resolution is not in order at the present time, the Convention not vet having passed over the order under the rule. Mr. TURNER. Mr. President: The Committee upon Printing have had that subject under consideration, and will, undoubtedly, provide for it. Mr. ANTHONY. If that is done, I will not offer the resolution. NAYS. ABSENT, OR NOT VOTING. Allen, of Alex. Goodell, Pillsbury, Archer, Hanna, Poage, Atkins, Hart, Scholfield, Bowman, Hildrup, Skinner, Bromwell, McDowell, Wall, Brown, Neece, Wheaton, Bryan, Parks, Wright, Coolbaugh, Peirce, Mr. President-25. Fox, S o the resol ution offered by M r. Whiting, was agreed to. REMOVAL OF COUNTY SEATS. Mr. CROSS. Mr. President: I ask for the reading of the proposition that I sent up to t he Secretary's desk. The Secretary read the proposition offered by Mr. Cross, as follows: At the time the amendments to the Constitution prepared by this Convention are submitted to a vote of the electors of the State, the following propositions shall be submitted to be voted upon as a separate proposition: "For a three-fifths vote to remove a county seat." "Against a three-fifths vote to remove a county seat." I If a majority of the votes cast at such election shall be for a three-fifths vote to remove a county seat, then the words "a'majority" shall be stricken out of section four of the article on counties, and the words "threefifths" shall be inserted in lieu thereof, and the following words shall be added to said section, to wit: "But when an attempt is made to remove a county seat to a point nearer to the centre of the county, then a majority vote only shall be necessary." And in case this Constitution shall be rejected by the electors at said election, then said section four shall become a part of the Constitution of 1848, in place of section five, article seven, on counties; but if the foregoing proposition shall not receive a majority of the votes, as aforesaid, then the same shall have no effect whatever. Mr. BUXTON. I move the previous question on the adoption of the proposition. The motion for the previous question was agreed to and the main question ordered. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the adoption of the proposition introduced by the gentleman from Winnebago [Mr. Cross]. The yeas and nays were ordered, and, being taken, resulted-yeas 31, nays 22 -as follows: COAL BANKE. Mr. WHITING. Mr. President: I desire to offer the following resolution. The Secretary read the resolution off e red by Mr. Whiting, as follows: BResolved, That the Committee on Revision and Adjustment is instructed to insert in the warehouse article, section five, in the sixth line, after t the word "consignee," the following words: "or any coal bank or coal yard," so that the section shall then read: All railroad companies receiving and transporting grain shall be required to deliver the same to any elevator or public warehouse or consignee, to which it may be consigned, provided such elevator or public warehouse or consignee can be reached by any track owned, leased or used, or which can be used by such railroad companies;, and all railroad companies shall permit connections to be made with their track, so that any public warehouse or consignee, or any coal bank or coal yard, may be reached by the cars on said railroad. Mr. WHITING. Mr. President: I offer this matter this morning for the reason that I believe it was not well understood, when I offered the same thing as an amendment yesterday, to the warehouse bill. I wish to call the attention of the COnvention to the fact that coal in the State of Illinois is a very important article. It is becoming one of vital interest. It is one of a trinity-pine lumber, railroads and coal. The coal fields of Illinois cover over forty thousand square miles. There is coal enough in the State, at one cent a bushel, or at twenty-five cents per ton, to pay the national debt, and enough after that to be equal in value to all the gold in the western mountains. It is one of the things that is greatly monopolized. It is monopolized to such an extent that frequently results in an oppression to the poor, and becoming burdensome to many of iphe branches of business. There is a monopoly to some extent existing in the State of Illinois. Notwithstanding it lies so very generally all over the State, these railroads passing through a coal district may connive with a few banks and exclude others, so that there may be little competition. It seems to me when we are providing for warehouses, we may, with propriety, provide also for this important interest. I am willing to take the counsel.of members here, whether the place for securing this import-ant interest of coal should be here or in another article. If we should pa,s by this opportunity, this might afterwards a~ppear to be the proper place, and I hope gentlemen swill consider that. I TEnsAS. Fuller Ross, Goodell, Snyder, Haines of Cook,Springer, Haines of L'k, Sutherland, Hankins, Truesdale, Harwood, Turner, King, Underwood, McDowell, Wagner, Medill, Wells, Robinson, Whiting-31. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. MAY 6) 1870, 1707 Abbott, Anthony,. Bayne,. Benjamin, Browning, Cameron, Cary, Church, Craig, Cross,. Cummings, Dement, Eldredge, Forman, Fuller, Allen of Crfd., English, Anderson, Harwood, Buxton, Ray, Cody, Rice, Ellis, Robinson, Ross, Sharp, Vaiade'venter, Wells, Wendling-15. Anderson, Bayne, Benjamin, Buxton, Cameron, Church, Craig,, Cr..., 'Dement, English, Forman, 1'708 ('1OTITUTIOAL OOYENTIO FRIDAY, SEC. 3. No railroad corporation shall consolidate its stock, property or franchises with any other railroad corporation owning a parallel or competing line; and in no case shall any consolidation take place except upon public notice given of at least sixty days to all stockholders, in such manner as may be provided by law. SEc. 4. It shall be the duty of the General aAssembly to pass such laws as will correct abuses and prevent extortion in the rates of freight and passenger tariffs on the different railroads in this State, and to enforce such laws, by adequate penalties, to the extent, if necessary for that purpose, of forfeiture of their property and franchises. SEC. 5. No railroad or other corporation shall issue any stock, bonds or other evidences of indebtedness, except for money, labor or property actually received and applied to the purposes for which such corporation was created; and all stock dividends and other fictitious increase- of the capital stock or in debtedness of any such corporation shall be void. SEc. 6. No contract, obligation or liabili ty whatever of the Illinois Central Railroad Company to pay any sums of money into the State treasury, nor any lien of the State upon, or right to tax the property of said company in accordance with the provisions of the charter of said company, approved February 10, 1851, shall ever be released, suspended, modif i ed, altered, remitted, or in any way or manner diminished or impaired by legislative or other authority; and all moneys derived from said company, after the payment of the State debt, shall be appropriated and set apart for the payment of the ordinary expenses of the State government, and for no other purposes whatever. [The following is the report of the standing committee, as amended by the Committee of the Whole]. SECTION 1. Every railroad corporation organized or doing business in this State, under the laws or authority thereof, shall have and maintain a public office or place in this State for the transaction of its business, where transfers of stock may be made and in which shall be kept, for public inspection, books, in which shall be recorded the amoun t of capital stock subscribed and by whom; the names of the owners of its stock, and the amounts owned by them respectively; the amount of'the stock paid in and by whom; the transfers of said stock; the amount of its assets and liabilities, and the names and place of residence of its officers. The -directors of every railroad corporation shall annually make a report, under oath, to the Auditor of Public Accounts, or some officer to be designated by law, of all their acts and doings, which report shall include such matters relating to railroads as may be prescribed by law. And the'General Assemby shall pass laws enforcing, by suitable penalties, the provisions of this section. SER. 2. The rolling stock,and all other'movable property belonging to any railroad company or corporation in this State, shall be considered personal property, and shall be liable to execution and sale in the same manner as the personal property of individuals, and the General Assembly shall pass no law exempting any such property from execution and sale.~ SEC. 3. No railroad corporation shall consolidate its stock,'property or franchises with any other railroad corporation owning a parallel or comipeting line; and in no case shall any consolidation take place, except upon public notice given, of at least sixty days, to all stockholders, in such manner as may be provided by law. SEC. 4. Railways heretofore constructed or' that may hereafter be constructed in this State, are hereby declared public highways, and shall be free- to all persons for thle transportation of persons anrd property thereon, under such regulations as may be prescribed by law. And the General Assembly shall, from time to time, pass laws establishing reasonable maximum rates of charges for the transportation of passengers and freight on the different railroads in this State, and to enforce such laws by adequate penalties, and may provide for a forfeiture of their property and franchises. SEc. 5. No railroad or other corporation shall issue any stock, bonds, evide'nces of indebtedness, except for money, labor or prop erty actually received and applied to the purposes for which such corporation was created; and all stock dividends and other fictitious increase of the capital stock or indebtedness of any such corporation shall be void. SEC. 6. Stricken out. Additional sections: SEC. -. The exercise of the power and right of eminent domain shall never be so construed or abriged as to prevent the taking, by the General Assembly, of the p r op e rty and fra nchises of incorporated companies already organized, and subjecting them to the public necessity, the same as of individuals. SeC. -. The right of trial by jury shall be held inviolate in all trials of issues or claims for compensation, when, in the exercise of the said right of eminent domain, any incorporated company shall be interested either fbr or against the exercise of said right. S-Ec. -. The capital stock of no railroad corporation shall be increased for any purpose except upon giving sixty days' public notice, in such manner as may be provided by law. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon concurrence with the Committee of the Whole in its first amendment, by which the word "railroad" was inserted in the first line of the first section. The first amendment of the Committee of the Whole was agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the second amendment of the Comnmittee of the Whole, which is that after the word "business," in the third line of the report, the words "where transfers of stock may be made and," be inserted. The second amendment of the Committee of the Whole was agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the third amendment, by which was inserted, after the word "officers," in the eighth line, the words which the Secretary will read., The Secretary read as follows: NAYS. Abbott, Goodhue, Allen, of Crfd.,Hay, Browning, Hayes, Cody, Mcoy, Cummings, Moore, Eldredge, Parker, Ellis, Parks, Gamble, ADDRESS TO THE PEOPLE. Mr. SEDGWICK. Mr. President: I rise to a point of order. Resolutions have been announced as being in order, and I have been trying to bring one be fore the Convention all the m orning. I desire to present the following resolution, an d to move that it be referred to the Committe e on Miscellaneous Subjects. The PRESIDENT. The point of or der is not sustained, inasmuch as resolu tions and propositions to amend the Con stitution are in order. But, the resolu tion will be entertained by general con sent. The Secretary read the resolution offer ed by Mr. Sedgwick, as follows: -Resolved, That a committee of thirteen, to consist of one from each of the existing con gressional districts, be appointed by the President of the Convention to prepare an address to the people, to be published with the Constitution at the close of the session. REPORT OF THE COMMITTEE. ON RAIL ROADS. The PRESIDENT. The resolution will, by general consent, be referred to the Committee on Miscellaneous Subjects. The question is now upon the motion of the gentleman from Clinton [Mr. Buxton], that the Convention take up the report of the Committee of the Whole on railroad corporations. The motion was agreed to. [The following is the report of the standing committee:] SIECTION 1. Every corporation organized or doing business in this State, under the laws or authority thereof, shall have and maintaina public office or place in this State for the transaction of its business, in which shall be ke't, for public inspection, books in which shall be recorded the amount of capital stocgksubscribed and by whom; the names of the owners of its-stock and the amounts owned by them respectiVely; the amount of stock paid in and by whom; the transfers of said stock, the amount of its assets and liabilities, and the names and place of residence of its officers. And the General Assembly shall, at its first regular session after the adoption of this Constitution, pass laws enforcing by suitable penalties the provisions of this section. SEc. 2. The rolling stock, and all other movable property belonging to any railroad company or corporation in this State, shall be considered personal property, and shall be liable to execution and sale in the same manner as the personal property of individuals, and the General Assembly shall pass no law exempting any such property from execution ~nd sale. e e I s I e e 1708 CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION FF-IDAY, Perley, Peirce, Sherrill, Vandeventer, Wait, Washburn, Wilson-22. ABSENT, OR NOT VOTI1\-G. Allen, of Alx.,Fox, Sedgwick, Anthony, Hanna, Sharp, Archer, Hart, skinner, Atkins; Hildrup, Tincher, Bowman, Merriam, Tubbs, Bromwell, Neece, Wendling, Brown, Pillsbury, Wall, Bryan, p' e, Wheaton, Cary, Ri,, Wright, Coolbaugh, Scholfield, Mr. President-30.1 So the proposition offered by Mr. Cross was agreed to. Mr. BUXTON. Mr. President: I move that the report of the Committee of the Whole on railroad corporations be taken up. The directors of ever'y railroad corporation shall annually make a report, under oath, to the Auditor 6fPublic,kccounts,or some officer to be designated by law, ofall their acts and doings. which report shall include such matters relating to railroads as may be prescribed by law. Mr. WELLS. I rise to ask the mover of this amendment to explain, it. I do not know by whom it was made. Does it mean that thB directors shall make a joint or several oath of all their acts and doings, personally, or connected with the railroads, and all acts and doing ofthe railroad-accounts, expenditures or number of trains,-or what acts are to be reported? I approve of what I think this section ought to mean, but its form i.% to my mind not as, clear as it, might be. Mr.' ANTHONY. It,is evident this wasnot in,the Convention at the time this section was, adopted. It was then fully explained. He- will fiiad my explanation in the Convention Journal in full' The language is plain, that the directors shall make an annual report of their doin-as.'The words "tinder oath," were introduced by -the gentleman from Morgan - [Mr.. Atkins]. l think it is all right. The PRESIDENT. The question is -on-concurriiig with the amendment; and .-it is concurred in.- The question is on the;fourth amendment, by which was stricken out from the eighth line the words,llat its first regular session after the adoption- of this -Cc-nstitution;" and it will be declared concurred in. The question is upon the amendment to the, fourth section, bv which it was.stricken out, and the substitute adopted, which the Secretary will read. p MAY 6, 1870. DEBATES AXD PROCEEDJGS. 1709 same time lay down some principle uponm which to base our direction. Why do we take it upon ourselves to direct the General Assembly that they shall make laws for the regulation of these rail roads, if they are private roads-private ways? Will the gentleman from Fulton [Mr. Ross] say that his propositio)n means anything? What can be the basis of his proposition directing the General Assem bly to pass laws fixi-ng their rates-even if his purpose goes so far as that-if not the supposition that they are public highways, in which every citizen of the State, from the least to the greatest, has a right, and an equal right. Now, sir, the gentleman from Fulton [Mllr. Ross] is too good a lawyer to suppose that the declaration that they shall be free to all per.sons of the State, means that they shall be free under any other circumstances or conditions than such as can lawfully result from their character as public highways. Mr. ROSS. I would ask the gentle-s man if he supposes that any individual can put cars upon the road and run them, without the consent of the company? Mr. CHURCH. I do iiot suppose that any one contemplates that, or contemeplates that, by this, any right can exist except such right as is clearly allowed by law, or such as shall be provided by law. We desire that every person in this Stat shall know that ne is not obliged to ask these railroads for the privilege of transporting himself or his property, but that he has a right to demand it; that these roads have been allowed to be constructed on his property, not merely for the sake of the owners of the road, but for his own. The compensation, if reasonable, is theirs: the right is his. Can that right be secured, except by the particular statement that the roads are of such publlc character that the Legislature shall provide that they shall be free to everybody under such regulations as shall be prescribed? Now, sir, what such regulations are or should be, I cannot in my brief limits, specify, at length, but I do not suppose the Legislature will violate any settled rules of propriety. They can make all such regulations for the benefit of the Churh],divsibe-"nd hal befre topublic as results from their charactersneiostbemdwihwrhuean allperonsforthetraspotaton f pr-as public highways, under their charters.otesiiaesalsmns sonsand ropety heren, uder uch I will give one instance: In the ware- Agi,iralodarintehbto reguatins s sall e pescibe byhouse article we have decided that alldiciiaigujslbewedieen law" a sucetibe o bengvotd uonwarehouses shall be public, and shall ctzn fteSae ihrfrnet h separately. ~~~~have a right to be connected with theserihsndpiieethyaeteno The PESIDET. Tat cluse i notrailways. uo h od,teGnrlAsml a prpostio expessd i disinc wods, If, as has been decided lby the supremewilhvpoetopssoelwuo andit il benecssry o iset ingugecourt, the railroads have had a rightthsujc,wihwlcorcthtaue in oder o mae itsensble.to refuse warehouses, coal banks andanintawa,tiseiu copan Mr. OSS Mr Prsidet: donotother great interests of the State thethtteecmaisaeujslexot desie a ths tie, t ay rae, o mve-privilege of making connection, that priv- m rmapr ftecmuiy hl to stike ut. y ow impessin isilege is now certainly, under this article,atnliealtoaohrprinma agansttha prvison.I wuldlik toestablished upon a proper principle, andberdesd Aml scp,trere hearfro th getlemn fom ellnryunder that principle the people have a b h eoto h omte,hsbe [Mr.Chuch],or ome ne pon hatright to enforce their right to connectgietoteupnteetoqetos clause. ~~~~~~with them by condemnation of the prop-anamlscpupnayohrqeto Mr. CURCH. Mr. Pesidet: Ierty of the road, upon making proper i eadt lihi h ugeto h woud lke t, f te entema wil sowcompensation. GnrlAsml,te a ihl x me wy th othr potionof te seion This, then, is one of the examples why erieterpwriprvdgfoth was ut n thre he blane ofthethese roads should be declared publiccortinoabss secionconais nthig ecet wat s,highways. Whatever may be;necessary No,teaedetothgetea purey drecoryor dvioryto he en-to enforce this right of the people, may fo utn[r os nCmiteo eralAssmblyassrts o pincile hatbe secured by declaring them public high.- h hl,drcsteGnrlAsml ever Itsees tome hatwhenwe akeways. This section does not seek to dew ntecreto f h bsscmlie it ponourelvs t diecttheGenraldare any different rule of compensationoftonpatclrpitaoeadta Asseblywha todo,we houd a t~ or property, nor to interfere, by anyistreuainbyfxnthmailm The Secretary read the substitute, as follows: SEC. 4. Railways heretofore constructed, or that may hereafter be, constructed in this State, are, hereby declared public hizhways, and shall be free to all persons for the transportation of persons and property thereon, under such regulations as may be prescribed by law. And the General Assembly shall, fromn time to time, pass la," s establishing reasonable maximum rates of charges for the transportation of pass engers and freight on the diffe-rent railroads in this State, and to enforce such laws by adequate penalties, and may provide for a forfeiture of their property and franchises. [The following is section four, as reported by the standing committee and stricken out]: SEC. 4. It shall be the duty of the General Assembly to pass such laws as will correct abuses and prevent extortion in the rates of freight and passenger tariffs on the different railroads in this State, and to enforce such laws by adequate penalties, to the extent, if necessary for that purpose, of forfeiture of their property and franchises. Mr. ROSS. Mr. Presideint: As this section is important, I will ask a division of it. The first part includes all down to "highways,"' ill line two. Tile second part inceludes from i'law," in the fourth line, to and including "penalties," in the seventh line. As at present advised, I am inclined to think it would be better to strike out all from "and," in the second line, down to "law," ill the fourth line, and then all of my own amlendmenlt, which looks like a threat at the incorporations, and does not add to the power of the Legislature. I think it is better to leave out all after "Penalties," in the fourth line. Thle Legislature would have that power. The PRESIDENT. The rule in regard to the division of questions requires that there should not only be distinct proposition —, but expressed in such distinct words that each proposition may stand by itself. The proposition is therefore divisible only in twzo propositionsfirst, downl to "law," in fourth line, and then the remainder of the section. The object of the gentleman may be secured by asking leave to strike out any portion. Mr. ROSS. I would inquire of the President if he does not regard the first half-that is the amendment proposed by the gentleman from McHenry [MNr. Church], divisible-"and shall be free to all persons for the transportation of persons and property thercon, under such regulations as shall be prescribed by law," as susceptible of being voted upon separately.~ The PRESIDENT. That clause is not a proposition expressed in distinct words, and it will be necessary to insert languages in order to make it sensible. Mr. ROSS. Mr. President: I do not desire at this time, at any rate, to moveto strike out. My own impression is against that provision. I would like to hear from the gentleman from McHen~ry [Mr. Church], or some one upon that clause. Mr. CHURCH. Mr. President: I MA.y 6, 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1709 means, with any chartered right, but simply to assert the rights of the people, under the charter, and assert the nature of the rights by which the public can secure their rights, either by legislation under the charter, or notwithstanding the charter. I do not desire, sir, to go any further in this discussion. The declaration that railroads are public highways i.s neither more nor less than the distinction given them in all the law books, and in all the decisions of the courts. [Here the hanimer fell.] Mr. ALLEN, of Crawford. Mr. President: Without entering into a discussion as to the propriety of the insertion of this paragraph in section four by the Committee of the Whole, I shall move to fstrike out the latter paragraph of this section-all after the word "law," in the fourth line. I prefer the originial rep-)rt of the Committee on Railroads to thtit provision. I do not conceive it necessary to raise or settle the question in this Coiivention as to whether the General Assembly has power to fix the rate of tolls on these roads. Whether thev have it or not, it is not, in my judgment, necessary for this Conve.Dtion to settle or to attemdt to set I think the fourth section as reported by the committee amply provides for althat can be done in the +. direction. prefer it, then, to the Proposition introduced by the gentleman from Fulton [Mr. RII)ss], for the reason that i, does not pretend to point out to the Gencral Assembly what particular mode they shall adopt for correcting the abuses complained of. If they have power to regulate fares and freight tolls on the roads, they can exercise it under the fourth section just as well as they can under this amendment. They are not limited, then, by the fourth section, as rep,,)rted by the Committee on Railroads, to any particular mode of correcting these abuses. They may see fit in the exercise of their legislative power to prescribe regulations by which connections can be made with railroads throughout the State. That may be one mode that they may regard as essential, to prevent such abuses as we have heard complained of, with reference to refusals to allow con 1710 COSTITUTIOAL COETIO FRIDAY, rid of them, when there is no mis-user or nonuser, but where the user is destructive to the interests of the people of the State-any method of condemning any obnoxious franchise not violated at all? Mr. UNDERWOOD. I am glad that the gentlemanr asked me the question. Sir, after the State had gone into a system of internal improvements, and expended $14,000,000 or $15,000,000, and accomplished nothing, we found that we could only get these public improvements by inviting foreign capital and individual enterprise in our State. To induce them to go into these enterprises, we offered them charters, very much stronger than we should have granted. Under those charters, they have come in with their money, their skill, and their enterprise, and have constructed these works of inestimable value to the State. * Now, to take ground as gentlemen do, that whenever the Legislature is of opinion that the public interest would be better subserved by repealing these charters, or taking away some of their powers, they can do so, is a revolutionary doctrine. It is pure repudiation, and nothing else. If the charters have too many powers granted by the General Assembly, it is to be regretted. That should have been seriously thought of when they passed the General Assembly. But, where investments are made under them, and the money is expended, and we have had the benefit of the contract on our part, to declare that the public necessity requires that opposition cars may be put on their tracks, that we should deprive the corporation of reasonable tolls and the benefits of their charters, without a judicial trial, is a fraudulent invasion of property. It is infamous, repugnant to our State Constitution, and repugnant to the Constitution of the United States, which forbid impairing the obligation of contracts-a principle recognized in all civilized govwrnmenjts. Mr SNYDER. Mr. President: I did not intend to say anything in regard to this matter of restricting railroads. I thought the affair had proceeded in such a manner as to satisfy the urgent claims and almnost unanimous demands of our people. There are but few persons who have the hardihood to carry this doctrine of vested rights to the extent that will ruin the liberties of the people. There are but few persons who have the hardihood to demand that this thing of vested rights and of standing up to contracts owith railroads, or concessions to them to the extent of robbing the people of all their rights, shall be carried to that extent. I say, if there is anything like unanimity in this State upon any one thing, it is upon restricting these railroads, these immense corporations that are growing day by day, and are already priding >themselves on their power to control our Legislature and all the other departments of the State. I have the honor of representing, in part one of the most quiet and orderly populace in the State —one of the most law-abidiug. I had heard nothing from f ttm on this subject, having been sepao rated from them a long time, not having returned home during the recess, but to my surprise, when I went home, upon all sides they came to me and said, "above all things restrict these railroad corporations; above all things prevent them p 1710 CONSTITUTIONAL COINVENTION FP.IDA-r, beyond which these railroads shall not go in fixidg rates of freight and passenger fares. In my judgment a thousand cases -may arise-other abuses may arise-where the General Assembly may go far in cor,rectifig these abuses by adopting suitable legislation. No restriction is left upon them, and no direction given in the pro. vision as adopted in Committee of the Whole, except as to the single point of correcting th'e' abuse, of exhorbitant tolls. Mv judgment is, sir, that the provision as eported by the Committee on Railroads, is a better provision, will be more satisfactory to the people, and quite as satisfactory to the railroads, leaving the General Assembly, as it does, to adopt whatever mode in their judgment may be best calculated to reft)rm anv abuse on the part of these companies. Mr. L-NDERWOOD. Mr. President: I CODcur fully wlth the remarks of the gentleman from Crawford [Mr. Allen]. The original report went as far, in my judgment, as we can go in reference to regulating the,,-e corporatio-Ds, consistently with constitutional law. Sir, I am decidedly, no-v and f()rever, against repudiatioll of individual ob'igatiODS, Of ,city, or county, or State, or national obligatioiis. I know, sir, that whenever propositions for repudiation are first made, they are always popular with persons interested in such repudiation. But in the end, the public interest,, as well as sound pf)licy, require that all legitimate obligations should be fairly and hon.estly respected by all departments of the govern-.-nent. Now, sir, these amendments are in effect an effort to veto the veto of Governor Palyn-er, given at the last session of the General Assembly, in which he took the ground that the General Assembly had not the right to fix te maximum rates of these corporations. The declaration that the railroads are public highways is mere "sound and fury, ,signifying nothing." In one sense, of ,course, they are public highways. Everybody has a right to travel upon them, and to have freight conveved with promptiness and facility, for reasonable rates. "Reasonable rates"-not such rates as the corporation may fix in its own volition, for, as I contended the other day, al from swallowing up our liberties, for law-abididg as we are, we understand that they are taking away our rights from day to dav, that they will soon control us completely, and make us their slaves, virtually; so that there will be o course left for us except the right of insurrection. If they go on as they have done, and receive the protection that has been given them by courts, by Legislatures, and all other tribunals resorted to, peaceable and law-abididg as we are, and patriotic as we are, we assert that we will arise in insurrection, and tear up every rail within tlit-, State of Illinois. We do not want, if we can help it, to be driven to such a course." Railroads are great and grand things. No man can place a higher estimate upon the inestimable value of these immense commercial routes that are running every where throughout our country and State, but it is better that every, railway that has ever been constructed within the State should be sunk to the bottomless pit, than that this free people should lose their liberties, and become the slaves of monopolies. I am surprised to hear the doctrine asserted here, that the delegates of the people, their servants, their understrappers, if you please, can, by passing railroad charters, and by granting and fixing up what is called "vested rights," fritter away the rights )f the sovereign people, their masters, until those rights are entirely divested, and the people are substaritially slaves-slaves to that worst of all masters, a heartless and soulless corporation. Where on earth t' —e power comes from, how on earth it is to be exercised in the light of day-that the servants of the people are to erect over their sovereign masters, in the shape of railroad and other corporations, a more absolute and despotic and grinding despotism than has oppressed tiny government of Europe-I cannot udderstand. I say I am for no such doctrine. I care not for law, nor for construction of law, nor for, legislation [Here the hammer fell]. Mr. RICE. Mr. President: I am surprised to hear the gentleman from St. Clair [Tvlr. Underwood] characterize the doctrine that railroads are public highways, and the doctrine of the limitation l6...... the main question, but I must say I am against railroad extortions, we may not tottally opposed to striking out that por- frighten those who would contribute to tion of the section after "law;" because if the building of railroads from making we strike that out we have nothing left of any more efforts to do so. value. I do not say that the amendment of the The first declaration in this section is, gentleman from McHenry [Mr. Church] that all railroads heretofore constructed, or will have that effect, but it may. I could hereafterconstructed, are publichighways. not vote for it the other day, when it was T'hat is an old declaration and means introduced, and I still think we can safenothing in point of fact. And there is as ly strike it out. Without that amendment little meaning in the declaration which there willstill remain in this Constitureads- tion ample power and authority to the And shall be free to all persons for the Legislature to restrain and control the transportation of persons and property there- unreasonable and unequal charges of our on, nuder such regulations as may be pre- railroads, if indeed they can be restrain,althboktu scribed by law. ed and controlled by constitutional pro These both are propositions that al- vision and legislative action. ways have existed. The books are full of Mr. WHEATON. Mr. President: I the doctrine that railways are public move the previous question. highways, and the declarations are equally The motion was not agreed to. as full and as complete that all persons in Mr. ROSS. Mr. President: It was the State have a free right of the use over only day before yesterday that everythese roads for themselves and their thing looked lovely and the "goose hung freight, etc., without restraint or limita- high." [Laughter]. The prospect looktionr on the part of such companies. If ed favorable that the people wereto have we strike out the latter part of the clause their rights vindicated in the Constituwe have nothing but a declaration that tional Convention by a large majority of has always existed-that railroads are the delegates upon this floor, who were public highways, and are free to the ceti- to determine that question, the settling zeIns of the State. of which the people have urged upon If there is tany valuable thing retained the State Legislature, and their hearts in this section, it is that the Legislature were glad at the sound that came up shall hereafter have the right and the from this Convention, promising to propower to fix upon reasonable maximum vide that, these railroad corporations rates for the transportation of persons should be limited by law. NTow, howevand property over these public highways. er, there is a disposition to go back upon I maintain that under the police power this question. There is a disposition to of the State, in connection with the right say to the farmer, "Go to law at your of eminent domain, the Legislature have own expense with these rich corporathe right, as the guardian of the public, tions. The courts can determine whethto fix these rates. I hope none of us will er the railroads charge legally or not." vote against that proposition. If we do, in Sir, for my part, I am willing that the my j udgment, we vote against the interests law should stand between the people and of the p' ople of this State, and in favor of these vast monied corporations. I would the railroad interests. have the Legislature to provide, by Mr. PARES. Mr. President: We law, a reasonable compensation, and in ought to go as far as may be necessary to addition to that, I would require by law restrain what has so often been denomi- some officer of the State, say the Attornated here railroad extortion, and a!gres- ney General, to see these laws enforced, sion upon the rights of the people. But I and not leave the farmer to "go to law" thi. k we had better not go too far. I under- at his own expense, and for the public stood the gentleman from St. Clair ]Mr. good, engage in litigation with these Underwood] to say that the first sentence corporations to vindicate his right in the in section four was mere sound, and does courts. not amo)unt to much. That may be true, The time has come, sir, when the conor it may not. It may be mere sound, or stitutional power of the State should be it may be substance. We all know that brought in use to protect the people. I sometimes sound his as much influence was very sorry that so able and distinas substance, and occasionally a good deal guished an individual as my friend from more. Would not the tendency of Crawford [Mr. Allen], should have gone such a declaration in the Constitution be back upon this great question. to prevent the building of any more rail. Mr. ALLEN, of Crawford. Mr. Presroads? ident: I will say that I have not gone One of the gentlemen from St. Clair back. [Mr Snyder] says that the cry is coming Mr. ROSS. Mr. President: I underup from the people to restrain these rail- stood the gentleman to be with us, the road corporations in their aggressions other dav. upon the people, and that if we do not do MIr. ALLEN, of Crawford. Mr. Presit, they will organize a revolution and ident: I voted against the gentleman's tear up the railroad tracks in the State. suggestion then; I shall now. Mr. SNYDER. I said, if this goes on Mr. ROSS. Mr. President: In my and their rights were taken away, and judgment, there can be nothing done by there is no other remedy, the people will this Convention that will give so much always resort to the last and only resort satisfaction, as providing in the organic in such cases. law that the people shall be protected Mr. PARKS. Let that be as it may, against the aggressions of these monopobut let the gentleman remember that lies. there is another cry from the people, a Mr. WELLS. Mr. President: This is cry for more railroads, and that, in trying emphatically a nation of thieves. [Laughto remedy these evils, we should consider ter.] For every man who produces artiwhether we may not run to the other ex- cles of value, food or clothing, there are treme, and prevent the building of any six others, if we include the helpless, who more railroads. Letuseonsider whether in make their living by cheating the protrying to preserve the rights of the people ducer outof all his honest earnings. This MAY 6, 1870. DEB,KTES ANI) PR'OC.EEIDINGS. illyii Crawford [iVIr. Allen], to -strike out all after the word "law," in the fourth line ]Vlr. RICE. I had the impression that both motions were pending. Then I hold that it results as a colise quence, from the assertion of the doctrine that these roads are public highways, and free to the people of the State, for the transportation of persods aDd prop ,erty, that the ultimate right to regu'late and limit the rate of toll inheres in the legislative department of the State goveram,-nt, and is es,-,ei)tial to the well beiDg of the State. That they are public highways, is a doctrine that is established in all the books that treat upon this sub ject, and it is not true that these rail.roads are matters of mere private concer.o, interesting only corporations, as is the case with property,strictly private, in which the public have no interest, and upon the use of which the public welfare does not depend. If they 4re,public highways, then the public have au easement over these roads, the right to which is as sacred as the right of property, or the right of the corporation to collect tolls. The right to the use resides in the public, and is above the control of the corporatiOL" and that right to the use and to the easement of the public over these roads is as sacred as the i-i(,ht of property of these corporations and the right to collect these f a, r c4 s. The Legislature has as much powe-, the State has as much power, to protect that public right in the use of this easemedt, and to protect it in the eDj()ytnent of it, at reasonable rates-as mucd rigl-it to demand it-as the corpo - ration has to assert its claim to the property, and to exact tolls for the use of it. Then I insist, without violating - the doctrine of vested rights, without any infraction of the rights secured under the CODStitUtiOD, by the charters to the companies, to the mere proprietary right, and the right to collect tolls, that the right of the public in the use of these roads, and the public easement over these roads, is as complete, as absolute, as sacred and as much the subject of legislative protection and )udicial protection, as the private right of property in these companies. It it is a mistaken doctrine to suppose [Here the hanimer fell.] Mr. RICE. Is my time up? It seems CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION five cents a mile to transport, as should be applied to a company to which the cost is but half a cent per mile. [Here the hammer fell.] Mr. BENJAMIN. Mr. President: I move to further amend by striking out in line six all after the word "State," that is, the clause And to enforce such laws by adequate penal ties, and may provide for a torfeiture of their property and franchises. The PRESIDENT. That is an in dependent motion to strike out rather than an amendment to the amendment of the gentleman from Crawford [Mr. Allen]. It will be in order after the question is taken on the amendments. Mr. BENJAMIN. I would prefer that there should not be in the Constitution any threat of forfeiture of property and franchises. The balance of the section contains three propositions. One is a declaration that railways are public highways. That I think cannot be disputed, because it is upon the ground that they are public highways, and to be used for the public benefit, that railroad corporations are authorized to take private property for thle construction of their lines of road. The next proposition is that these pub lic highways shall be free to all persons for the transportation of persons and property thereon. I understand that is the law to day, that any of us have the right, and that the company cannot deny it to us of traveling upon the road and of having our property transported over the road. Mr. HAYES. Mr. President: With the permission of the gentleman, I would like to ask a question upon that point. Does the gentleman insist that it is now the law that every person has the right to transport other persons over any rail road in this State? Mr. BENJAMIN. Mr. President: I do not understand that this goes so far as that. Mr. HAYES The section reads that they "shall be free to all persons for the transportation of persons;" and that means all persans have the right to trans port other persons over that road. Mr. BENJAMIN. That is Va differ ence of construction between us. I have no idea whatever that this section would allow a set of persons to build their own cars, and use them on a railroad for the transportation of the property of other persons, against the consent of the com The third proposition is that the General Assembly shall, from time to time M pass laws establishing reasonable maximum rates of charges fear the transportas tion of passengers and freight. If I understood the gentleman from St. Clair [Mr. Underwood] correctly the other day,s he assented to the proposition that a railroad company could not establish unreasonable rates of charges. This is all that I wish to say upon the question, trusting that at the proper time the latter part of the section, containing a threat of forfeiture, will be stricken out. Mr. HAY. Mr. President: As we are limited to a five minutes talk, of course we cannot discuss these questions. But I hope this section four will be stricken out entirely. So far as the first clause goes, if it is intended asa mere assertion of the principle recognized by our courts, that railroads are public highways in a 1712 FF.IDAY, class is made up, in a great measure, of il.nigo,er minstrels," priests, lawyers, doc tors and politicians, and their greatest anxiety is always to discover how much they can fleece out of the producer with out crippling his power to produce. All society, I say, is to be divided into two classes-the robbed and the robbers. Mr. WAIT. I beg to idquire to which ,of the classes named the gentleman be longs? [Laughter.] 'Nir. WELLS. To the same class to which the gentleman from Henry [Mr. Wait] belongs. [Renewed laughter.] Mr. SPRINGER. That rlquires further explanation. [Laughter.] Mr. WELLS. Let that be answered by the gentleman or any of his friends. The schemes undertaken to perpetrate these robberies are almost as various as individuals. Some practice it in bald headed "buncombe," some by deceit and cunning, and some by thieving. The -ection under consideration seems designed to divert the attention of the plunderers from the producers to the dis tributers of produce-it is but another form of robbery. In regard to the flrst part of this section, it but declares what has been the law ever since courts have decided on this Question. It confers no right, declares no new principle, and the most that can be said in its favor is that it is harmless; but even that is question;&ble, ai it makes unchangeable that which is now the comnion law of the land. I believe it should and will remain the law whether placed here or not. The first clause of this section is a piece of bald "buncombe." -It is a declaration of what is, and always has been the law as long as the people demand and the courts continue to administer justice. In regard to the second clause, do gentlemen expect that the Federal courts will change the whole current of their decisions since railroads have been organized? Do they believe that because we place this clause in the Constitution, and the people by chance adopt it, the courts of the United States will change the whole current of their decisions, and decide that that which they have often declared to be the law, is wrong and unconstitutional? I believe that railroad companies have their rights, and that those rights are certain sense, that is to say, that all per sons who have anythiDgtO transport over them, or who wish to be transported over them, have the right of such traiisporta tioii-tbat is a principle of law that everybody acknowledges, and requires no constitutioda,l declaration. Mr. BENJAMIN. Mr. President: If the gentleman will allow me a moment, I will suggest that the friends of the measure, in order to avoid any ambigui ty, are will.ng th.,at the word " their " should be inserted in the third line, be fore "Persons." Mr. HAY. Mr. President: If the sug aested amendment is made it would onl, 11 y as I Understand it, recognize the distinc tion already made by the supreme court, that in one sense these roads are public highways, but not in the sense of an ordiDary bighwav. They recognize the doetrine to an extent, but not to the extent that h.-is been claimed in some quarters, as I understand it. On the. contrary, I understand our supreme court to have expressly repudiated the idea that they are public highways in the sense that anybody has a right to put on cars and transport passengers or freight over a railroad. Upon the other provision inserted in this section, I would say that I think it is equally objectiodible-and more so. I understand, Mr. President, that the eff(ct, if not the express grant hitherto made by all the railroad charters, granted in this State to corporations, is to confer the right upon them of prescribing their own fares and tolls. I deny, as a simple question of the construction of that contract, that we can say that that means the Legislature can fix them. The charter says the companies may fix thctolls. Gentlemen here say that that means, the Legislature may fix what they deem to be reasonable tolls. I deny their construction. I understand all these charters have the certain common law incidents annexed to the grant of a charter, and that one ofthe,-,e incidents is that the franchise granted shall not be abused, that an abuse of these franchises shall work a forfeiture of tie charter, and that common law remedies exist by which these abuses may be i.Dquired into, and the properremedy applied. It follows that if our Legislature has granted a franchise to fix tolls, MAY 6, 1870. DEBATES AXD PBOCEEDINGS. 1713 remedy at common law, for the abuse of their powers, to every person who suffers from that abuse. I have no question, nor have I ever had, but it does seem to me that it is the duty of this Convention to give direction to the General Assembly so that it may prescribe modes by which redress of these grievances may be had. I prefer the direction given in section four of the report of the Committee on Railroads, to that adopted by the Committee of the Whole, for the reason that we do not undertake to direct the General Assembly as to the precise mode in which they shall undertake to redress the grievances complained of, but leave it to their judgment. If they can redress the grievances by fixing a uniform rate of iare, let them do it. If they can redress grievances by adopting some provision that will operate to make the charges of these roads equal upon all who are compelled to use them, let them do it; and let them at the same time provide penalties, and lay down rules by which parties aggrieved may have free and quick access to courts of justice. They can make it, if they see fit, the duty of some officer of the government to see to the prosecution of these companies where they have violated any law. The fourth section gives ample scope for this. Now, my friend from Fulton [Mr. Ross] took occasion, while addressing the Convention, to charge me with having gone back on the proposition. I did vote against his proposition in Committee of the Whole, because I believed the report of the committee was better, since it does not undertake to limit the power of the General Assembly as to the mode in which they shall restrain these corporations. The gentleman, it seems to me, is laboring under some hallucination upon certain subjects, and especially with refer. ence to myself. Injustice has been done me by other members upon this floor, in assuming that there was a rivalry existing between the gentleman from Fulton [Mr. Ross] and myself, with reference to the future. I disclaim any such rivalry. I have tried the experiment of running for Governor once, and I think it is a reflec. tion upon my good sense when gentlemen suppose that I can be induced to repeat the experiment. Mr. ROSS. Mr. President: I am not a candidate for Governor or any other position. I will go for the gentleman frome Crawford [Mr. Allen] for that or any other office he wants. Mr. ALLEN, of Crawford. I hope the gentleman will not do me the injustice to suppose that I am a candidate. I have a very high regard for him, and I hope that "goose?" about which he spoke so eloquently, swill always "hang high."' [Laughter.] Mr. ANTHONY. gr. President: The substitute that was offered here the other day provides. Sac. 4.:Railwa~ys heretofore constructed, or that may hereafter be constructed in this State, are hereby declared public highways, and shall be free to all persons for the transportation of persons and property thereon, under such regulations as may be prescribed by law. It does not declare these corporations to be public corporations, but declares them to be public highways. I do not understand that the provision can be construed to mean that we can each take a dummy engine or a velocipede, go uponL as a representative of the people on this floor, to oppose this fourth section. If I understand the section, it asserts that all railroads in the State now existing, or which may hereafter exist, are public highways, free to all persons to put upon them cars and engines of their own, and to run and operate them, under such regulations as may be prescribed by law. This is clearly the fairest construction which can be put upon the language of the section. Are we prepared to assume the responsibility of such a measure? The great object we have in making a Const-.tution, is to restrain the General Assembly so that it may not, in a moment of popular prejudice, do that which is destructive to the best interests of society. I do not believe this section, if we should adopt it, would be sustained as valid; but if it should be sustained, it would utterly destroy the whole railroad interest of the country. No new railroads would be, constructed, and those which are constructed would necessrily fall into disuse, because no railroad could be operated where every person in the State had a right to put his own machine on the track and run it. It may be said that the General Assembly can protect them from such abuses. But let me reply: The General Assembly will reflect public sentiment, which is as changeable as the wind. Twenty years ago, public sentiment would have given, and did give, railroad companies all they asked for; to-day, it would take from them all they have. The line of safety, in my opinion, lies in treating these corporations just as we treat individuals. Give them the rights they possess, restrain them from the exercise of rights they do not possess. At common law, all railroads are common carriers, their power to fix tolls is limited to reasonable and just tolls, and they can be restrained from charging unreasonable or unjust tolls. Men are too supine or too stingy to seek their rights and remedies where they can be redressed with safety. These remedies are not to be found in tearing up tracks, but they are to be found in the courts. No railroad company can with impunity, charge me what it pleases for conveying me over their road, or for transporting my property thereon. I am, therefore, opposed to this section. Mr. ALLEN, of'Crawford. Mr. Presdent: I believe the motion now is to strike out the entire section. I am satisfied that some action ought to be taken by this Convention on this question. I gave a while ago, very briefly, the reasons why I prefeired section fi)ur, as reported by the Committee on Railroads to that adopted by the Committee of the Whole. The PRESIDENT. The effect of the motion to strike out the section is but another form of the question of concurrence. If the section should be stricken out, the journal would simply show that the Convention did not concur with the Committee of the Whole, and section four of the standing committee would stand before the Convention for action. Mr. ALLEN, of Crawford. Mr. President: I believe the General Assembly has the right to restrain these corporations from an abuse of their powers. I have not now, and never had any doubt on that point, that there is an existing State, to inquire into any abuse of the rights thus granted, and to remedy any abuse of the right thus granted. I do think the authority the gentleman presented to the Convention, derived from cases in which a surrender of the taxing p,Lower of the government was the question at issue, is at all applicable to the case here. The power to fix tolls, subject to the reserved right of the State to correct and punish abuses, involves no necessary surrender on the part of the government, of any necessary governmental powers. It is a mere right to prescribe reasonable tolls; but the power is subject to the power of the State, to inquire whether or not the grantees have abused that power, and if they have, the right is in the State to subject the rights thus granted to forfeiture: and under these reservations I do not see how gentlemen can camplain that there are no remedies for these abuses and extortions. There are remedies. I must say that I am skeptical as to the extent or enormity of these alleged abuses about which gentlemen so loudly and fiercely declaim, when I know that the remedies have existed from time immemorial, by which these abuses can be corrected, and yet see no attempt to apply these remedies thus prescribed. I say it makes me skeptical as to whether these abuses do really exist to the extent charged. I deny that, under the provisions of charters granted to these railroad companies, and under which capital to the amount of hundreds of millions has been invested in the State, we can, after having invited the investment of that capital in this enterprise, confiscate it, as may be done under the provisions of this section. That is the doctrine necessarily asserted here. If it is a grievance that the Constitution of the United States forbids us to impair the obligations created by these charters, instead of seeking by indirection to nullify that Constitution, let us go about it directly. I say, if it is a grievance that these rights are protected, by virtue of that provision, let us go about the matter regularly. Let us first commence an agitation for the repeal of that provision of the Constitution of the United Statesby amendment of that Constitution, when we may legally confiscate this property. Until that is done we cannot. The requirement we here make of the Legislature is one we have no right to make, nor they any right to perform. ~ Mr. TURNER. Mr. Preisdent: There has no other enterprise done so much to develop the resources of the State, or contribute so much to the wealth, refinementand happiness of the people, as the construction and operation of railroads. It is nevertheless true that our railroads have incurred the hostility of the people, and that there is now a strong and controlling prejudice against them, whether well or ill-founded it is not necessary to inquire. The prejudice does exist, and the man in public life who looks dispassionately upon the sub~ject, and who is required to deal with- practical questions concerning them, is generally assailed with the charge of being interested in these corporations, if he fails to go for the extremest measures against them. Now, sir, I have no interest in any railroad corporation, but looking at them as I look upon all other questions, as far as possible, without prejudice, I feel bound, 429 as DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1713 MAIY 6, 1870. 1714 COXTITITtoAL FRIDAY, of this end, and when legislative bodies grant corporate privileges with such freedom, for almost every conceivable purpose, and when they are created fi)r purposes which but a few years past, private enterprises or ordinary coo partnerships were supposed to be fully ade-t quate, it becomes a question of no small m-oment to ascertain and clearly define their general privilege, and the extent to which theey may be controlled by legislative action. it never could have been the legislative will, that these bodies wlhen created should be wholly independent of and irresponsible to the government. If such was the operations of their charters, then we have created in the heart of our government, an uncontrollable power, which must, sooner or later, become sdangerous to our rights, if not to constitutional liberty itself. But if, on the other hand, they, like individuals, are u n d er t he reasonable control of the government, they may accomplish the purposes of their organization, and prove a blessing to civilization, and not destructive to government. In the formation of government the great object sought, is to afford protection to the citizen or subject, in the enjoyment of his rights, and thereby promote general happiness. To accomplish this most important of all purposes, adequate power must be delegated to the constituted authorities, to employ the most appropriate imaus, not prohibited for the at t tainment of the end sought. And to maintain the order and well being of society, it becomes the duty of government to exercise that power, and not only to exercise, but to preserve it.0 In exercising this power it becomes a duty to maintain and preserve the person of each individual member of society from aggression or injury from others; and to maintain and preserve the general and special rights of each individual, and also each member of the community in relation to his property. These duties devolving upon government are paramount; and in the absence of authority conferred by the fundamental law, it may be well doubted whether the Legislature can alienate them to another body or organization. The power thus conferred upon government is in the nature of a trust, created by the governed, and should only be exercised by the officers, and in the mode prescribed by the organic law. The end and object of gove ral nent then, being to promote the happiness and prosperity, and to secure and protect the community in the peaceful enjoyment of their rights, and safety of their persons, it can never be intended, in the absence of express language, that government designed to part with the power of accomplishing these great objects of its creation. It cannot be intended, in the absence of the clearest ex pressed intention, that it was the design of the Legislature to surrender this power to a body of individuals, in no manner connected with the government, and the moving con sideration of the members of which, at its creation, was only to advance their pecuniary interest. Government would cease to be of gah hl h pehswr en passeger rainsprovded Ipay are.any great value, if it were to disarm itself, by md ntemrt ftewoescin If nt, ad I nderake o rie fre, Igra-nt or otherwise, so as to be unable to ex- isedo htmto.Bttemto will gt putoff-tat isall tere secise the power, and perform the duty, ofhenwmkstosrkouthwhl about it. ~~~~~~~protecting its citizens in the rights to secures eto,Ia poe o which government was organized. If these Btitourcouts avedecdedthi materpowers were irrevocably yielded by the gov- Teeaemn odpoiin nti in anoth~~~~~~~~er cs hc aenoher erment, to irresponsible corporations, thatseto,wihogttbertie,ta referred to. ~~~~~result must inevitably ensue.d)noexsintescinareotdb In the case of tlie Ohio and 2![~s ~ % p'- * * * X * X *- * - h omtteo alod oprtos ,'airoa copan V8 ffcelin, 5 fl. 42, In granting this charter, the LegislatureIthnweogttdelrralaspb the court says: ~~~has not, in terms, surrendered the right to lchgwy,adta h eea s subject it to general police regulations. If It sver oul hav ben th leislaivesuch a result has ensued, it is alone by impli- sml hl,fo iet ie aslw wilJtha thse odis, hencreted shuldcation. But we have seen that in the absence etbihn esnbemxmmrtso be holy idepndet o; ad iresonsbleof express language, such an exemption can-chre. BtIdnothnthtw to te gvermen. I suc wa th opra-not be imposed. When these bodies are crea- ogtt elr htteepbi ih tioaof heirchaters thn wehav cretedted, although they are artificial persons, inin ileheat o ou goernentan ncotrol-tangible, and only existing in legal contem-wy hl efe o l esn o h ahiepowr, wichmust soner r lter,be-plati~on, they are all held to he subordinate to,trnprainothipesnanprp comedaneros t ou rihts ifnotto on-and under the control of the governiment, toeryteen stl'itonl lbety tslf.Butif onth oterthe same extent as individuals. They have Teei iareeto hsfora han4 thy, lke ndiiduas, re udertheat all times been required to conform to the t hti en yti agae ti reasnabl conrol f te goernmnt, heygeneral laws of the State, precisely as if they may ccoplis th pupose ofthei oran-were real, and not artificial persons. To h aal ftocntutonslf ede izaion an prve blssig t ciiliatin,other-rise would be to say that the Legisla-daebornila,oitidelrdb and ot dstrutiveto te goernmnt. ture mig~ht create an imperium in imper:io, a ato h eea sebyta h * * * * * * * * ~~government existing within another govern- pbi iha hl efe oalpr of tis ounry,whe incrpoate boiesare That corporate franchises in private cor-oso rpryteen twudma creaed n suh nmber, fr tie avancmen porations are vested rights requiring the pro- ta otls htvr ol erqie any of these roads and direct the trains to be taken off (on the ground that they ar e free to all), and go to our respective abodes or elsewhere. When the substitute declares them "public highways," it does not use the term in the sense of a c ommon wago n road. The supreme court of this State declares that Railroads are not common highways, in the sense of public wagon roads upon which every one may transact his own business with his own means of conveyance, but only in the sense of being compelled to accept of each and all, to take and to carry to the extent of their ability. In passing public highways and public streams, where others have cormmon rights in passing and transacting their business, the care and liability will correspond with that of all others passing and doing business on them. Several times the same question has been before the supreme court of the United States. In a decision rendered by that court, we find this language: Railways, also, as a matter of usage, founded on experience, are so far considered by the courts as in the nature of improved highways, as is indispensable to the public interest and the successful pursuit even of local business, that a State Legislature may authorize the towns and counties of the State through which a railway passes, to borrow money, issue bonds, subscribe for the stock of the company, or purchase the same with the view of aiding those engaged in constructing or completing such a public improvement, and that a legislative act conferring such authority is not in contravention of any implied limitation of the power of the Legislature. Decisions to that effect have very much increased in number within the last few years, and are constantly increasing both in the State and federal courts, until it may be said that the rule here laid down pervades the jurisprudence of the United States. Now, Mr. President, from the earliest times the decision of the supreme court with regard to this has been, that where atown or city subscribed to a railroad, the principle on which alone it was done was that the road was a public improvement. The case of Prettyman, in Tazewell county, is a case which my friend by me here [Mr. Merriam] will remember, and one ia which the principle is decided. Nlow, when we have decided that they are public highways, do we mean that they are to be free to Everybody? Oaly to this extent. If I go down to this Al ton railroad I am free to go on all their passenger trains —provided I pay fare. If not, and I undertake to ride free, I will get put off —that is all there is about it. But our courts have decided this matter in another case which I have not heard referred to. In the case of the Ohio and Mississippi r,ailroad company vs. McLella~n, 25 Ill. 142, the court says: It never could have been the legislative ~will th~.gt these bodies, when created, should be wholly independent of, and irresponsible to the g,~vernmernt. If such was the opera lion of their charters, then we have created in the heart of our government an uncontroll able power<, which must, sooner or later, be come6 dangerous to our rights, if not to con stitutional liberty itself. But if, on the other hand? they, like individuals, are under the re, enable centre! of the government, they may acecomplishs the purposes of their organ izationJ, and prove a blessing to civilization, and not destructive to the government. In this age of improvement and rapid ad vance in material development of the wealth of thiz country, wheel incorporat-ed bodies are created in such numbers, for the advancement 0 c y t I t r I 8 c sa t t b t t ari e c d a t i t t t i t a a i t 0 t t t a t t I c I r t s t 1 714 COXSTIT]UT1014AL OONV18XTION FP.IDAY) tection uf government, cannot be denied. They are special individual rights, which fall as clearly within the requirement as that of p,ny other class. But, IlIZe the general rights of individuals, they are subject to be controlled for the general welfare. When such bodies accept their charters, it is upon this implied condition, that they are to exercise their rights fubject to the power of the State to regulate their action as it way individuals. We are aware of no single instance in which the Legislature has, in granting such charters, prescribed the mode in which they shall execute or perform the',-r agreements, or shall be,Doriae liable as common. rs, or for damages resulting from neLIiLeuce or otherwise. Yet, they have at arl ;mes been required to conform to the general laws on these and other subjects. When brought into being, in contemplation of law, such a body becomes, for most purposes, a person and a subject of the State. [Here the hammer fell.] Mr. ANTHONY. Mr. President: Just one moment,. if the Convention will indulge me. ["Go on," "Go on Mr. ANTHONY. It is in view of these decisions that I am willidg to go to the extent of section four, because I believe that., as it stands, the rights of the citizen can be vindicated by the old quo wctrranto, and the company forfeited. It has been done hundreds of times. If a railroad company abuses its franchises, the State can take them away. Now I we say: SEC. 4. Railways heretofore constructed, or that may hereafter be constructed in this State, are herby declared to be public highways, and shall be free to all persons for the transportation of persons and property thereon, under such regulations as may be pre,scribed by law. And the General Assembly shall, from time to time, pass laws establish!Dg reasonable maximum rates of charges for the transportation of passengers and freight on the different railroads in this State, and to en force such laws by adequate penalties, and may provide for a forfeiture of their property and franchises. That, in my j tidgment, is going a great way-further than was ever gone in any Constitution in this country. I am satisfled that section four will meet all the reauirements. Mr. WHEATON. Mr. President: A short time ago, I moved the previous question, because the only point in question then, as I understood it, was the rao tion of the gentleman from Crawford [Mr. Allen] to strike out the!ast para p MAY 6, 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1715 Mr. ROSS. Mr. President: I rise again to a question of order. This being inserted by the Committee of the Whole, is it in order to move to strike it out? Is not the question upon concurrence? The PRESIDENT. The question is upon concurrence, but under the rules the Chair regards it as competent to move to strike out, which motion, if agreed to, is a rejection of the proposi tion. In effect the Chair deems it a simple non-concurrence. Mr. COOLBAUGFI. Mr. President: If this motion prevails, will section four, as reported by the committee, stand in its stead? The PRESIDENT. It is open for the action of the Convention in its stead. The effect of striking out a section reported by the Committee of the Whole, is simply not to concur. The Secretary will read the proposition which it is proposed to strike out. The Secretary sead section four, as follows; SEC. 4. Railways heretofore constructed, or that may hereafter be constructed in this State, are hereby declared public highways, and shall be free to all persons for the transportation of persons and property thereon, under such regulations as may be prescribed by law. And the General Assembly shall from time to time, pass lawsestablishing reasonable maximum rates of charges for the transportation of passengers and freight on the different railroads in this State, and to enforce such laws by adequate penalties, anld may provide for a forfeiture of their property and franchises. of any persons in this State, for the transportation of themselves or their property thereon. For the limit, "under such regulations as may be prescribed by law," would be construed by every court to mean that the freedom t o travel i s not taken away by the limitation- that that limitation co uld not authorize the Legislature, in viola tion of the organic law, t o destroy the freedom of trae of of all persons and th eir propy erty over thes e roads, without toll or tariff, but only to authoriz e regulations as to the mode of travel. It is a substantial declaration that these roads ar e f ree. No tolls can be eademanded on them, becaus e they are to be public highways, free to all persons in this State for the transportation of themselves and thei r property. For this reason I am in favor of striking out from th is s ec tion all after the word "h ighways," in line two, down to the word "under," in line three, so that it will read: Railways heretofore constructed, or that may hereafter b e constructed in this State, a re hereby declared public highways, under such regulations as may be prescribed by law. That leaves the Legislature to prescribe the rates of tolls that may be demanded upon these roads, but if we make a broad declaration that they are not only public highways, but free public high ways, under such regulations as may be prescribed by law, then I insist that the proper construction of that language is that the regulation prescribed by law shall not destroy the freedom of travel over the public highways, and that the travel over these roads shall be free from all tolis to be charged either by the State or by individuals. My construction may not be a correct one, but the language is susceptible of such a construction. I presume that the gentleman who introduced it does not desire any such construction to be put upon it. His desire, undoubtedly, is as the desire of all of us that the Legislature may regulate tolls and tariffs upon the roads, so that the people may not be oppressed; and so far as that can be co tiprehended in this sectioni, I am in favor of it. [Here the hammer fell.] Mr. SHARP. Mr. President: I move the previous question. The motion for the previous question was agreed to and the main question ordered. The PRESID:ENT. The question is upon striking out the section reported by the Committee of the Whole. Mr. ROSS. Mr. President: I-would inquire whether there can be a division on striking out? The PRESIDENT. There cannot. A motion to strike out by the rules takes precedence of all motions to amend, andl is deemned equiivelant to the rejection of the section. Mr. ROSS. And is not divisible? The PRESIDENT. And is not divisi The yeas and nays were ordered, and being taken, resulted-yeas, 18, nays, 46 -as follows: YEAS. Abbott, English, Allen, of Crw'dGoodhue, Anderson, Hay, Browning, Hayes, Cameron, McDowell, Eldredge, Moore, YEAS. Abbott, Goodhue, Allen of Crfd., Hay, Anderson, Hayes, Browning, McDowell, Cameron, Medill, Cody, Moore, Eldredge, Parks, English, Bayne, Haines of LakeSedgwick, Benjamin, Hankins, Sherrill, Buxton, Harwood, Snyder, Cary, Hildrup, Springer, Church, King, Sutherland, Craig, McCoy, Tincher, Cross, Merriam, Truesdale, Cummings, Neece, Tubbs, Dement, Parker, Vandeventer, Ellis, Perley, Wagner, Forman Peirce, Wendling, Fuller, Rice, Whiting, Gamble, Robinson, Wilson, Goodell, Ross, Wright-43. Haines of Cook ABSENT, OR NOT VOTING. Allen of Alex.,Brown, Pillsbury, Anthony, Bryan, Poage, . Archer, Coolbaugh, Scholfield, Atkins, Fox,: Skinner, Bowman, Hanna, Wall Bromwell, Hart, Mr. President-18. The motion of Mr. Wheaton, to strike out, was not agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the amendment of the gentleman from Crawford [Mr. Allen], namely: To strike out all after the word "law," in the fourth line. Mr. CHURCH. My understanding was that, by common consent, the word "their" was put in previous to "persons," in the third line, on the suggestion made by the gentleman from Cook [Air. Hayes]. M1r. HAYES. Mr. President: I hope NAYS. Bayn e, Hankins, Benjamin, Harwood, Buxton, Hildrup, Cary, K ing, Church, McCoy, Craig, Medill, Cross, Merriam, Cummings, Neece, Dement, Parker, Ellis, Peirce, Forman, Perley, Fuller, Rice, Gamble, Robinson, Goodell. Ross, Raines of CookSedgwick, RHaines of Lake Allen of Alx'n,Bryan, Pillsbury, Anthon y, Co d y, Poage, Archer, Coolbaugh, Scholfield, Atkins, Fox, Skinner, Bowman, Hanna, Wall, Bromwell, Hart, Mr. President-19. Brown, So the motion of Mr. Hay, to strike out section four, was not agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the amendment proposed by the gentlemian from Kane [Mr. Wheaton] to the amendment of the gentleman from Crawford [Mr. Allen], to strike out the words "and shall be free to all persons for the transportation of persons and proper ty thereon." iMr. ROSS. I would like to have a division of the amendmen:t, and have the . vote first taken on the amendment of MAY 6) 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1715 fered by the gentlem tn from Kane [Mr. Wheaton]. Mr. CHURCH. I would like to call attention to one thing. I would certainly regret, if any member should be misled with reference to what the raeauiiig of that clause is, or if that clause relating to the free use can be, by any person, reasonably understood to relate to the use of the roads free from compensation. It relates to the free right to use them according to law, and not to the right to use tbefree from compensation. Mr. SHARP. I rise to a point of order. We are acting under the previous question. The ]?RESIDENT. The point of order is well taken. The Chair will divide the -amendment by common consent. The question is upon the amendment proposed by the gentleman from Kane [Mr. Wheaton]. Mr. HAINES, of Cook. What is the other amendment? The PRESIDENT. It will be put as a distinct proposition, viz: to strike out all after the word "law" in the fourth line. Mr. HAINES, of Cook. Mr. President: If we strike out both, we will not have much left. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the amendment of the gentleman from Kane [iMr. Wheaton] which is to strike out from section four the followijjwords-. And shall be free to all persons for the transportation of persons and property thereon.. The yeas and nays were ordered, and being taken, resulted-yeas 22, iaays 4 as follows: Parks, Sharp, - 7 Truesdale, Turner, Underood, Wells-18. Sharp Turner, Underwood, Wait Washburn, Wells, Wheaton-22. Sherrill, Snyder, Springer, Sutherland, Tincher, Tubbs, Vandeventer, Wagner, Wait, Washburn, Weadlirig, Wheaton' Whiting, Wilson, Wright-M. NAYS. Haines of LakeSedgwick, Hankins, Sherrill, T-larwood, Snyder, Hildrup, Springer, King, Sutherland, .INICCOY, Tincher, Merriam, Truesdale, Neece, Tubbs, Parker, Vatideventer, Perley, Wagner, P ir3e, Wendling, P.e, Whiting, Robinson, Wilson, Ross, Wriglit-43. ABSENT, OR NOT VOTING. ble. Mr. GOODELL. Mr. President: I rise to a question of order. Is it not proper that the friends of the section should be allowed to perfect it? Tue PRESIDENT. Upon a motion to strike out, it is not competent. Upon a motion to strike out and insert, both the proposition and the substitute are susceptible of amendment; but there is a special rule that a motion to strike out shall take precedence of all others. 0 171 COSIUINLC^ETO RDY stricken out before the word "corporation," instead of before the word "evidence." I move to amend the section, as was intended by the Committee of the Whole, by striking out the words "or other," before "corporation," and inserting them before "evidence." The amendment of the Committee of the Whole to section five was not agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The qu-estion is on concurring in the seventh amendment, by which section six of the report of the standing committee was stricken out,and it will be declared agreed to. [The following is section six of the report of the standing committee, struck out by the Committee of the Whole:] SEC. 6. No contract, obligation or liability whatever of the Illinois Central railroad company to pay any sums of money into the State treasury, nor any lien of the State upon, or right to tax the property of'said company in accordance with the provisions of the charter of said company, approved February 10, 1851, shall ever be released, suspended, modified, altered, remitted, or in any way or manner diminished or impaired, by legislative or other authority; and all moneys derived. from said company, after the payment of the State debt, shall be appropriated and set apart for the payment of the ordinary expenses of the State government, and for no other purposes whatever. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the first added section. The Secretary read the first added section, as follows: SEC. -. The exercise of the power and right of eminent domain shall never be so construed or abridged as to prevent the taking, by the General Assembly, of the property and franchises of incorporated companies already organized, and subjecting them to the public necessity the same as of individuals. Mr. BROWNING. /Mr. Pre'sident: I think this is a dangerous provision to put into the Constitution. This section assumes that the General Assembly possesscs the power to deprive the State of its right of eminent domain, or to limit or restrain it in the exercise of that right. It also assumes, or at least implies, a doubt that franchises are not liable to be takenifor public necessities as other property.' I Now, sir, I never heard it questioned here or elsewhere that franchises and all other property, corporeal or incorporeal, of every kind and character, are held subject to the exercise of the right of eminent domain by the State, and subject to the liability of being taken and appropriated for the use of the State when. ever the public necessities demand. The right of eminent domain is an attribute of sovereignty, and being such, we can neither enlarge nor restrain it. We cannot enlarge it because it is soveriegn already, and we can make it nothing more than sovereign. We cannot restrain it, because if we put limitations upon it, it will no longer be a sovereign power. All that the General Assembly can do with reference to eminent domain power is to prescribe the mode or ma nner of its exerci e. Tha t is ase it has e ver attempted to do-e all that it ever wvill attempt to do. We cannot create the right of eminent domain. We cannot endow the State with it, because it necessarily inheres in every sovereignty, and there is no sovereign State that does not possess it. I think we had better not agree to that section, but leave the subject untouched. ABSENT, OR NOT VOTING. Allen of Alex,Brown, Poage, Anthony, Bryan, Scholfield, Archer, Fox, Skinner, Atkins, Hanna, Wall, Bowman, Hart, Mr. President-17. Bromwell, Pillsbury, The Gener al Asse mbly can prescribe the mode and manner of exerci sin g the power whenever it becomes necessary to put it into oper ation, just as well without this provision as with it. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon concurrence. Mr. CHURCH. Mr. President: I hope that the Convention will not fail to concur in the section. As to whe ther the State can part with the power of eminent domain, so that it can never resort to it again and exercise it over the same property and franchises, I have found that even that right of government has been doubted by the courts in a few instances; and in a case read by a gentleman [Mr. E'dredge] here day-before-yesterday, the supreme court of our own State even doubted once, whether having authorized its exercise by a private franchise, the State could exercise the right of eminent domain over the same again. It has attempted, by its contracts with incorporated companies, to part with this incident of sovereignty, and I lay this down as a proposition I think is sound, that when the State does allow any corporation-municipal or otherwise-to exercise the power of eminent domain and subject private property to public uses, there remains the right in the State to regulate the uses and all the incidents connected with the exercise of the franchise. That cannot be doubted except in cases where the State has gone further than to authorize these corporations to exercise that power, and has parted with the right to regulate the franchise afterward, by special agreement. The claim is that the State has delegated to them not only the right to exercise the power of eminent domain and all regulations following, but that the State has also parted with its natural resulting right to govern them afterwards. But, sir, I have found many other instances where the courts have raised the question of a State having parted with the power of eminent domain so that it could not be recovered, except by making compensation for that agreement vio lated. If the State does by contract attempt to part with the power of eminent domain to a railroad company, may the courts not say that such contract shall become the foundation for damages whenever the State does seek to exercise its right and condemn that contract? F~or this reason and many others which I have not time to give now, I believe that the section should be concurred in. Every such agreement whereby the State seeks to part with its sovereignty or any of its proper incidents ought to be void. Mr. SPRIZNGER. Mr. President: I have but a few words to say. I am in favor of the section as reported by the Committee of the Whole, because I desire that we should, by a provision in the organic law, recognsize this power as existing in the General Assembly. Such a declaration in the Constitution will prevent any future misconstruction of legislative powers, and will leave to the courts no opportunity to doubt the powver of the people, through the General Assembly, to assert and exercise this vital element of sovereignty. It was said by the gentleman from Adams [Mr. Browning] that this section adds nothing to and takes nothing from the powers of the Stateywthat the right of s t 8 I F.RIDA-Y, CONSTIT'UTIONAL CONVENTION 1716 that it will be done by common consent. ["Object." "Object."] Mr. CHURCH. I move, then, Mr. President, to insert the word "their." The PRESIDENT. An amendment cannot be entertained at the present stage of the question. The question is upon the amendment of the gentleman from Crawford [Mr. Allen], namely: To strike out all after the word "law," in the fourth line. Mr. HAINES, of Cook. Mr. Preside-nt: I call for yeas and navs. The yeas and nays were ordered, and being taken, resulted-yeas 15, nays 51 -as follows YEAS. Abbott' English, Allen of Crlfd,Hay, Anderon, Hayes, Browl""g, McDowell, Eldredge, Moore Sharp, Turner, Underwood, Vandeventer, Wells-15. NAY9. Goodh-ue, Ross, Haines Of Colk,Sedgwick, Haines of Lake, Sherrill, Hankins, Snyder, Harwood, Springer, Hildrup, Sutherland, KinL-, Tincher, MCC, Truesdale, Medill, Tubbs, Merriam, Wagn6r, Neece, Wait, Parker, Washburn, Parks, WendliDg, P6rley, Wheaton, Peirce, Whiting, Rice, Wilson, Robinson, Wright-51. Bayne,. Benjamin, Buxton, Cameron, Cary, Church, Cody, Coolbaugh, Craig, Cross, Cummings, Dement, Ellis, Forman, Fuller, Gamble, Goodell, So the motion of Mr. Allen, of Crawford, to strike out all after the word "law," was not agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon concurrence. Mr. BENJAMIN. I now move to strike out all in the sixth line after the word "State." The PRESIDENT. The main question is on concurrence, and the question has not yet been put. It is impossible yet to amend the section. The question is upon concurrence, and the section will be declared concurred in. ADJOURNMENT. Mr. ENGLISH. ]Vlr. President: I move the Convention do now ad;ourn. The motion was agreed to. So the Convention (at twelve o'clock and twenty-four minutes) adjourned. AFTERNO ON SESSION. - - FRIDAY, May 6,1870., The Convention met at two o'clock P. . m., and was called to order by the Presi dent. RAILIROADS. Tb e PRESIDENT. The question is upon concurridg with the the Committee of the Whole in its amendment to section five, by which tlae words "or other," before "evidence," in the first line, were stricken out. Mr. BUXTON. Mr. President: There must be an error in that section. The words 11 or other " should have been DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. this power even where a preceding Gen eral Assembly has contracted that the power should not be so exercised. The General Assembly cannot delegate or barter away the sovereignty of the State. If it could do so, it might with equal propriety establish a monarchy in place of our republican form of government. We limit the powers of the State by constitutional provision. The sovereign power of the State government has been limited by the Constitution of the United States. The people delegated certain powers to the Federal government, and to the extent of the powers thus delegat ed, it limits the sovereignty of the State. They refuse to the State government the power to make treaties, alliances and confederations, to grant letters of marque or reprisal, to coin money, to emit bills of credit. Many other limitations have be-eni placed directly upon the power of State sovereignty, and beyond that limitation the General Assembly dare not go. It dare not go beyond it, because the people, by a sovereign act, have placed limitations upon the power. We may limit this powerin our Constitution, and say that the General Assembly shall not take certain species of property for the public use. There is no denying that we may do that, and as long as we fail to reserve the right to employ this power we are liable, by inadvertance or otherwise, to limit it by constitutional provisions. We cannot impair this power without endangering the existence of the State. It is as essential to our political being and welfare as the faculty of respiration is to human life. The right to exercise it has never until recently been denied or doubted. Under its authority we invade the most sacred rights a of' property, on the single condition of making compensation. But in latter days, while the individual citizen can hold no rights as against the public good, not even his life, when we approach t the sacred precincts of railroad franchises or other property, or even attempt to restrain the abuse of powers and privileges by these great railroad corporations, we are stopped abruptly, and are told to take the sandals off our feet, for the ground whereon we tread is holy ground. There is something mysterious about franchises, if they are anything more than other species of property. Mr. CUMMINGS. Mr. President: I move the previous question. iThe motion for the previous question was agreed to, and the main question ordered. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon concurring with the Committee of the Whole on theirst added section. The yeas and nays were ordered, and being taken, resulted-yeas 55, nays 5-as follows: Ellis, English, Forman, So the first section added by the Committee of the Whole, was -,gre e d to. The PRESIDENT. The question is upo n concurring with the Committee of the Whole in the se cond section, which the Secretary will read. The Secretary read the second added section, as follows: SEC. -. The right of trial by jury shall be held inviolate in all trials of issues or claims for compensation whe n, in the exercise of the said right of eminent domain, any incorporated company shall be interested either for or against the exercise of said right. The PRESIDENT. The section will be declared adopted if no objection is made. The question is upon the third section. Mr.BBUXTON. Mlr.President: I would like to ask the gentleman from Mclenry [Mr. Church], who ( ffered these sectionIs, if the article on the bill of rights does not cover this case? Mr. CHURCH (in his seat). It does not. Mr. BUXTON. I do not mean specifically, but does it not practically cover all cases? I think that article was so amended that the right of trial by jury is secured in all cases of the exercise of the right of eminent domain, where private property is taken for public use. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon concurring with the Committee of the Whole in the third added section. The Secretary read the third added section, as follows: SEc. - The capital stock of no railroad corporation shall be increased for any purpose, except upon giving sixty days public notice, in such manner as may be provided by law. The third added section was agreed to The PRESIDENT. The question is on the adoption of section one. The Secretary read section one, as follows: SECTION 1. Every railroad corporation organized or doing business in this State, under the laws or authority thereof, shall have and maintain a public office or place in this State for the transaction of its business, where transfers of stock may be made and in which shall be kept, for public inspection, books, in which shall be recorded the amount of capital stock subscribed, and by whom; the names of the owners of its stock and the amounts owned by them respectively, the amount of stock paid ia and by whom; the transfers of said stock; the amount of its as. sets and liabilities, and the names and place of residence of its officers.. The directors of every railroad corporation shall annually make a report, under oath, to the Auditor or Public Accounts, or some officer to be designated by law, (of all their acts and doings, which report shall include such matters relating to railroads as may be prescribed by lawv. And the General Assemblyr shall pass laws enforcin:g by suitable penalties the provisions of this section. M~r. ANTHONY. I think the word " may " in the third line should be striken out, and 4shall7 be inserted; eminent doma i n inheres in sovereignty, a nd c annot be enlar ged o r limited in any respect. Then whe rein do we err in recognizing the principle in the Consti tution? Our government is one of limited p ow ers. Sovereignty is circumscribed a nd dives ted entirely of many of its at tribut es. It is true, I believe, that the powers of the Stat e are limited by the Constitution- t hat sov er eignty inheresin the State, and can only be limited by fundame nt a l law. Then every provision in the, Constitution is a limitation of the sovereign power of the State. If we can not limit the attributes of sov ereignty, why do we propose a Constitution? I regard this as an essential principle, im peratively necessary for the prese rvat i o n of the li b erties of the people, and the protection of their rights against the oppressions of the great monopolies springing up around us. It is not true that the courtshave always recognized this power as existing in the General Assembly, or if they have recognized it they have not done so to its fullest extent-to that extent which the safety of the people demands. We regard this principle as true, and I think that the authorities will bear us out, that everything that exists within the geographical limits of the State is subject to be taken and appropriated by the General Assembly for public uses. It may take a man's life if necessary. We may, by an act of the General Assembly, compel a man take up arms in the defense of his country, which may result in the sacrifice of his life. The government may thus take life for the public good, and no person will question or condemn this high exercise of power. Yet, when we apply this principle to property, and say that every species of property, whether belonging to private individuals or to corporations, shall be held subject to public uses, we are met with the objection that we can not exercise this power, because it may impair the obligation of a contract. The exercise of this power does not go to the contract. It goes co the property acquired under the contract, just the same as it goes to property acquired under a deed. A man who purchases forty acres of land and re. ceives a deed therefor, holds it by a title as high and sacred as can exist in property, yet no one denies the power of the General Assembly to take his land for the public use and permit a railroad track to be constructed over it, or other public imp,-ovements to be erected thereon. Wherein, I ask, is the title to property in a franchise higher or more sacred than the title to real estate held under a deed? There can be no difference —both are property, and as such they may at any time be taken, in whole or in part, for the public use. For instance, the power given to a railroad corporation to fixs and regulate freight and passenger tariffs, is a distincet and independent part of the franchise, just as one acre is a part of forty acres of ground, and it may be taken whenever the public exigencies demand it and appropriated to public uses, upon payment of compensation.'l he General Assembly mzay resume, in this manner, and exercise on behalf of the people any franchise it lhas granted to any corporation, or any part of any such franchise, and yet not impair the obligation of the contract by which the franchise was grant~ ed. The General Assembly may exercis~ 48O MAY 6, 1870. 1717 Neece,' Whiting, Parker, Wilson-55. NA.YS. Browning, Sharp, Wells-5. Moore, Truesdale, A13S]ENT, OR NOT VOTING. Allen of Alex. Hanna, Tincher, Archer, Hart, Turner, Atkins, Medill, Vandeventer, Bowman, Perley, Wait, Bromweii, Pillsbury, Wall Brown, Poage, Wright, Bryan, Scholtield, Mr. President-23. Cody, Skinner, TEAS. Abbott, Fo-x, Parks Allen of Crfd.,Full'er, Peirce: Anderson, Gamble, Rice, A-uthonv, Goodell, Robinson, Bayne,' Goodhue, Ross, B,-iijamin, Haines of CookSedgwick, Buxton, Haines ofLake,Slierrill, Cameron, Hankins, Snyder, Cary, Harwood, Springer, Church, Hay, Sutherland, Coolbaugh, Hayes, Tubbs, Craig, I-I i fd r u p, Underwood, Cross, Kin-91 Wagner, Cummings, McCoy, Washburn, Dement, McDo-well, Wendlng, Eldredge Merriam, Wheaton, 1718 CONSTITUTIONAL COXvETIO FRIDAY, given why such a thing should not be done, but it occurs to me that continuous lines can be run more economically, and that they ought to be allowed and encouraged to conslidate. Now, 1 believe there is a road running from Edwardsville to Alton, a short line. What would be the harm if a continuous line from Edwardsville to the east, which may be made some of these days, should consolidate with that? It may bethat my ideas are crude and wrong, but I should like to hear some reason why continuous lines may not consolidate. Mr. ALLEN, of Crawford. Mr. President: I hope that the amendment will not be adopted. I will give a reason. A company are now engaged in constructirg a railroad from Chicago to Danville, and it is in a good state of progress. Another company is constructing or trying to construct a road from Danville in a southerly direction to Vincennes. I cannot conceive of any reason why the two companies should not consolidate on that continuous line. Cer tainly it would be better for the companies for one company to hold it all, or for the two companies to consolidate under a reorganization, so as to form a continuous line. I have simply given one instance. It seems to me to be the highest folly to attempt to prevent a consolidation of that kind. No injury can result firom it. It is, perhaps, safer under one management, than it would be under the management of two eompanies running over territory two hundred miles in length. Mr. IIAINES, of Cook. Mr. President: My attention was called this morning to an election that the so-called "Laka Shore" and Michigan Southern railroad company have just held. We well know that the west end of that long and continuous line of railroad, running from Chicago to BuLffalo, is in Illinois, was organized under the laws (if this State. It is said that the Vanderbilt party have got possession of that long line of road running through Indiana, Michigan, Illinois, Ohio, and Pennsylvania, into the State of New York, and of the entire board of directors; but one member is a citizen of this State, all the rest, I believe, being citizens of New York. The so-called Vanderbilt party now own and control a continuous line of railway from Chicago to Buffalo, own and control the New York Central railroad, running from Buffalo to Albany, and also - control both lines of railroads running into New York, from Albany down the Hudson river, and the New York and H~arlem road. Now then, if Vanderbilt lives ten years longer, he and his associates will control not only one, but numerous lines running from the Atlantic to the Pacific, and those people living along the line of these great belts, who want to travel over them, and to transport their freight will find themselves absolutely under the control and direction of one great railroad king. The evil of consolidation, just beginning in this country, will grow ultimately to be a monster, and I had much rather live under the evils of disjointed railroad connections, than to live under the evils of a monster monopoly. So mfar as I am concerned, I care but little about this personally. It is a sentiment however, which I have long entertained,ca Most of the railroad corporations, chartered by this State, keep their tral nsfer books in Wall street, and hardly any of the transfers are made in this State. If it is worth anything, it should be that they shall have transfer offices in this State f or the pu rpose of transferring s tock. It does not prevent them, by the laws of the State of New York, from transferring their stock in Wall street. I will move to reconsider the vote by which this was adopted, for the purpose of inserting "shall." The motion was agreed to. Mr. ANTHONY. I now move to strike out "may" and insert "shall." The motion was agreed to. Section one was agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the ad(,ptiou of the second section. The Secretary read section two, as follows: Stuc. 2. The rolling stock and all other movable Droperty belonging to any railroad company or corporation in this State shall be considered personal property, and shall be liable to execution and,ale in the same manrer as the personal property of individuals, and the General Assembly shall pass no law exempting any such property from execution and sale. Section two was agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the adoption of section three. The Secretary read section three, as follows: SE,C. 3. No railroad corporation shall consolidate its stock, property or franchises with any other railroad corporation owning a parallel or competing line; and in no case shall any consolidation take place except upon public notice given of at least sixty days to all stockholders, in such manner as may be provided by law. Mr. WELLS. I move to strike out in the second line, the words, "owning a parallel or competing line," and to and including the word "place," in the third line. The consolidation should apply to all railroads, not only to parallel or com. peting lines. The consolidations that are most dangerous and work the most injury to the people, are consolidations of competing lines. Mr. HAINES, of Cook. I wish to offer the following substitute. The Secretary read the substitute offered by Mr. Haines, of Cook, as follows: No railroad corporation shall be authorized, and the General Assembly is hereby foreser prohibited from authorizing the consolidation or union of two or more railroad corporations within this State, either by sale, lease or otherwise; and no railroad corporation, or corporations of this State, shall consolidate, by sale, lease or otherwise, with any railroad corporation or corporations of any other State. A majority of the directors of any railroad corporation nlow incorporated or hereafter to be incorporated by the laws of this State, shall be citizens and residents of this State. Mr. WH-ITING. It mnay be that those who understand the subject of railroads better than I do, can give a reason why there should be no consolidations. it occurs to me that they ought to be allowed, lunder certain circumstances,to consolidate, Now, I remember the time when the first railroads of the State of New York were made by piecemeal, when there being different companies from Al bany to B1uffd1o —five or six, of them, I think, if I am not mistaken —~he Lec,islature made them consolidate into one continuous line in order that there might be better accommodations and more economy prac ~tLred, It may be that ~reason can be 1718 CONSTITUTIONAL CON'VENTION FIZIDAY, and in furtherance of that view, I offer the substitute, but if the Coiaveiition vote it down, I shall still feet that I have done my duty, and that the Convention have not fully appreciated or apprehended the evils in the future of railroad consolidation. Mr. WELLS. The gentleman misunderstands the meauidg of the amendment. I omitted to insert the word "and," after "stockholders," in the fourth line. Now, the evils complained of do not arise exclusively from consolidation, although that may be an evil, but they arise from consolidation in a secret manner without law, by which stockholders at a distance are without notice robbed of their rights, and because the consolidation takes place at the wbim of the directors, idstead of in the ipanner prescribed by law. Mr. COOLBAUGH. Mr. President: There are one or two points involved in tl-io, amendment of the gentleman from Peoria [Nir. Wells] that deserve consideration. I think it had better not be adopted. I conceive of no reason why certain distinct lines of railroads, making in the aggregate a cinti'Duous line, might -Dot be consolidated, to the benefit of the State and everybody connected with the roads. I think this section ought to be amended so as to strike out "parallel, or," as it would lead to confusion as it is I desire to say a few words in respect to the substitute of the gen, leman from Cook [,If r. Haities]. There are One or two prov-sioias in it which are deserViDg the serious consideration of this COBVebtiOD, ]DOW that e are undertaking to express our opin. ions on the subject of railroads. 1 -do think that while we are at work on the subject,, we oucht to embody what practical useful reforms experience has brought to our n-iinds as necessary. There should be some provision in the fundamental law, forbidding any railroad line in this State from coi)solidating with any railroad line in any other State. And there are very strong reasons to believe that unless some provision of this kind shall be inserted, it will be but a few months before the entire' lines, from Omaha to the eastward, will be under the management of one man Vanderbiltand it is impossible that so stupendous a corporation can be orgadized without en. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. for plcn inteCnttto h ee ovnincnpeeti ro uca-tr iieso h tt fIlni,p5 Convention can prevent it from purchasing the Chicago & Rock Island railroad or leasing it either, if it cannot purchase it. If the people of Illinois should be opposed to it, they would be powerless to prevent the purchase of their capital stock in the market, or a consolidation in ownership and interest if not in name. All property is a matter of commerce, and the right to buy and sell is as sacred and as certain as commerce itself, and we might as well try to stop men from trying to buy and sell grain, or produce, or farm or any other species of property, as to try to stop them from buy;ing and selline railroads. Then, we practically ac complish nothing in stopping the consolidation of railroads upon continuous lines. I will take for instance the Ohio and Mississippi railroad, organized in this State, from St. Louis to Vincennes. It runs in a direct line to Cincinnati, two lines having been consolidated. Before its consolidation it had two sets of officers complete. It was operated, so far as the officers were concerned, at a double expense, and, as a matter of course, all additional expenses come indirectly from the people. Tne amount of tariff that is charged upon a railroad, the amount of profits, is governed in a great measure by the expense of operating it; and if the people of this State adopt any provision that will increase the actual necessary expenses of operating railroads, they thereby increase the rate of freight and passenger tariff charged upon those roads, which are entitled to a reasonable comr pensation for the expenses incurred in operating the road, as well as a reasonable profit on their capital employed. I therefore think that it would, in no case, operate to any advantage to prevent the consolidation of railroads in continuous lines. Now, there is no consolidation of the New York Central with the Lake Shore road, none whatever. ["There will be."] Well, there may be, but they are just as much limited under the Vanderbilt management as though they were one company, and there is no advantage possible or contingent t hat can happen to the people by preventing their formal consolidation. fMr. HAINES, of Cook. Mr. President: I would like to ask the gentleman a question. How happened the lines from Chicago to Buffalo to) become conlsolidated in one great line tMr BUXTON. Mr. President: I am not saying how they could be consolidated, but am asking if there is any advantage to be gained by preventing such a consolidation? They are virtually now operated in the same interest, always will be as long as they are under the present amanagement, and if it is fortheir interest to continue under one management, they will so continue. Mr. MEDILL. I confess, Mr. President, that I ant not very enthusiastic over thtis section from any point of view, and have not bees since I first saw it reported to the Convention, for the reason that it can accomplish nothing of value. It is a mere sieve, through which everything can run, without any trouble at all a net that will not hold the spiders or catch large flies. The proposition in my colleague's substitute, to have a majority of the direc-w for placi ng i n the Constitution the neces sary rest rictions for the prtection of the people of the State. But while we have it asserted on paper that there shall be no consolidation of rai lroads i n the State with railroads in other States, we do not prevent in any sense a consolidation in reality. Parties come here and lease a branch of our roads passing through this State for ninety nine years, and then cl aim tha t they have not consolidated, but have simply leased the road. The result is, our prohibition stands without effect favorable to the people. I hope at least a portion of the substitute may be adopted, but I see very little good in the provision as reported. Utnder the amendment proposed by the gentleman from Cook [M1r. Haines], when we require roads to have a majority of the directors ix; the State, though they may be men of straw, they must, in time, b~ecome identified with us in interest and feeling. To merely say they shall Lot consolidate, when they have the right to lease, buy and own the stock of any of our roads, is a. prohibition without effect or advantage to our people, because, in fact, it is n,) prohibition, nor can we make any that will defeat their purposes. The PRESIDENT. The question is on the amendment -proposed bv the gentleman from Peoria [Mr. Wells], to strike out all between tlh e words "corporation," in lin e two, and 4'except" in line three, and insert after "stockholders," in the fourth line, theword "and." The amendment was not agreed to. The PRESIDENTR. The question is on the substitute (offered by the gentleman from Cook [Mr. Haines]. The Secretary read the substitute ,offered by Mr. Haines, of Cook, as follows: No railroad corporation shall be authorized, and the Genera_l Assembly is hereby prohibited from authorizing the consolidation or un. ion of any two or more railroad corporations within this State, either by sale, lease or oth. -erwise, and no railroad corporation or corporations of this State shall consolidate or unite by sale, lease or otherwise, with any railroad corporation or corporations of any other State. A majority of the directors of any railroad corporation now incorporated or .hereafter to be incorporated by the laws of this State, shall be citizens and residents of this State. ]Mr. HAINES, of Cook. Mr. President: If it is the will of the Convention, I have no objection to striking out or omitt;Dg that portion prohibiting consolidation of lines within the State. As it stands it suits me exactly, but I do not suppose the Convention are prepared exactly for all that is in it. MIr. TINCHIER. I move to strike out all down to where it speaks of the agreemenit inl relation to stockholders. M~r. BUXTON. Mr. President: The Committee on Railroads had this matter under consideration and adopted in substance the section in the proposed Con -stitution of 1New York. If we prohibit the consolidation of parallel and comapet-lngrafiroads, it is as much as we can well do. The prohibition of the consoli .dutton of all railroads would in fact only -keep up separate organizations which would be nlo hindrance to the purchase by one railroad of all the stock of another, and its thereby becominig the virtual owner. We may prohibit this great Vanderbilt combination fromn con-. solidating with the Chicago & Rock Island railroad, but I do not know tha~/Lis tors citizens of the State of Illinois, possesses some merit, and might subs.,rve a useful purpose, but all the rest of the section I regard as of no practical value. This attempt to prohibit consolidation of railroad stock, property and franchises, will not prevent consolidation, purchase, lease or combination. It is only necessa ry for the party seeking consolidation to buy a majority of the stock of any road they desire to control, elect their own board of directors, put their own officers in charge of it, run it under its charter, by their own employees, and manage it precisely as if it were an integral part of their own road. This Convention has no power to prevent a purchase of that kind. The stock is a marketable commodity, just as much as wheat or cattle, land or labor, and whoever owns a majority of the stock of any railway in Illinois, has the constitutional and inherent right to manage it to suit themselves, subject to the laws and regulations of this State. If section four does not give tie State of Illinois the power to regulate the charges of these railways, then section three is utterly useless, and if section four does not confer that power, then section three isutterly useless; and in either event it is of no value whatever, except as to so much of the amendment proposed by my colleague [Mr. Haines] as will require a majority of the directors to be citizens of Illinois, for that will do good, no doubt. I am, therefore, reluctantly obliged to vote against this section, for I do not want the Constitution encumbered with a line or section of any description that is not practicable or useful; and i n my judgment, this section under consideration would be of'no value whatever to the people as a remedial or restrictive provision. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the amendment of the gentleman from Vermilion [Mr. Tincher] to strike out. The Secretary read the amendment offered by Mr. Tincher, as follows: Strike out the following: No railroad shall be authorized, and the General Assembly is hereby forever prohibited from authorizing the consolidation or union of any two or more railroad corporations within this State, either by sale, lease or otherwise; and no railroad corporation or corporations of this State shall consolidate or unite by sale, lease or otherwise, with any railroad corporation or corporations of any other State. The amendment offered by Mr. Tincher was not agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon striking out section three, and inserting a substitute. Mr. CUMMINGS. I call for a division of the question. Mr. ANTHIONY. MIr. President: I hope this section will be allowed to remain, especially the last part of it - And in no case shall any consolidation take place except upon public notice given, of at least sixty days, to all stockholders i'n such manner as may be prescribed by law. The object is to prevent these co~nsolidations, and the increasing of their stock without notice to their [tockholders. That is a great evil, where officials do it without their stockholders know~ing anykhing about it. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon striking out section three. Thle muotionl to strike out section three was not agreed to., MAY 6) 1 8 70. 1719 1~2 OOSIITOA )NETO RDY so as to force them by public opinion, as well as by law, to accept those rates as the standard rates. Hence, it would not seem to me that we should declare that because thev charge us dear, th e y therefore should charge everybody dear. I would rather encourage them to be cheap at all these points, and see if we could not find some way by which those cheap points should be the standard to cheapen the ratesthroughout the State. The Seretary read the amendment offered by Mr. Hayes, as follows: Add to the section the following:' The General Assembly shall pass laws to prohibit and punish by adequate penalties, the transportation by any railroad company of property shipped from a point within this State at a higher rate of freight per mile than that charged by them for the transportation of property shipped from a point without the State." Mr. HAYES. I will change the phraseology, at the suggestion of my friend, so as to punish the charging higher within the State, than for property received without the State. Mr. BUXTON. Is that subject to amendment? The PRESIDENT. Yes. Mr. HAINES, of Lake. Suppose the General Assembly fail to pass any such laws, what is the remedy? Mr. HAYES. Just as if they refused to do any other constitutional act. Mr. HAINES, of Lake. Is it in the power of this Conventi)n to command them to do anything? Mr. HAYES. Yes. Command their conscience. Mr. HAINES, of Lake. Would not it be better to declare a general principle? Mr. HAYES. That is a principle. Mr. BUXTON. I wouid ask the gentleman from Cook [Mr. Hayes], whether he i ntends by that, that the property transported a short distance shall be transported at the same rate per mile as property transported for a long distance? Mr. HAYES. I do not know as I have a right to answer that question, as a vote has been ordered, but I think the amendment provides clearly that for the same service they shall charge the same money — that they shall not charge the property-owner within the State a higher rate of freight than the man who ships from the outside. Mr. MEDILL. It seems to me that section four covers everything that is necessary; and this is entirely surplusage. : The yeas and nays were ordered, and, being taken, resulted-yeas f9, nays 37 — as follows: The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the adoption of the secti,n. The S ecretary read section three, as follows: SEC. 3. No railro a d corporation shall con solidate its stock, pr op ert y or franchises with any o ther railroad corporation owning a par allel or competn ing line; and in no case shall any consolidation take place, except upon p ublic notice given, of at least sixty days, to all stockholders, in such manner as may be provided by law. Mr. HAYES. Mr. President:FI,move an amendment to the section. T he Secr et ary read the amendment of fe red by Mr. HEayes, as f ollows: Add e o o the following to the sec ti on: T he Gene ral Assembl y shall pass! c laws to prohibit and punish by adequate penalties, the transportation by any railroad company of property shipped from a point without the State at a higher rate of freigh t per mile than that charged by them for the h transpor tation of property shipped from a point within the State. Mr. HAYES. The object of that amendment is to endeavor to secure equality between the citizens of this State and those without the State, in re gard to transportation by rail. It is cus tomary with the railroads to discriminate against the farmers, merchants and prop erty holders of the State. There have been very many instances, in my opinion, where cattle raised in Texas have been brought to the boundaries of the State, and carried clear across the State to eastern markets, at a rate, perhaps, one-half less per mile than charged to citizens of Illinois. If we take cattle from Sangamon county to New York, we find in that market cattle from Texas which were carried entirely across our State for less than the freight charged from Springfield to State line. So it is with merchandise shipped from eastern cities, where the discrituiua tion is as great in favor of those cities and against the merchants of Illinois. The object of this amendment is to require railroad companies to charge the same rates, and not to discriminate against the people of this State, from which they receive their franchise. I can conceive of no reason why a company that receives the power to carry freight from the liberal legislation of Illinois should discriminate against her people. I do not understand why they should be permitted to practice this discrimination. I believe that it is wrong and uwjust, and I think that the people of all parts of the country should be put upon the same footing in this respect, and therefore offer this amendment. Mr. WHITING. Mr. President: I can bear witness to the facts that the gentleman speaks about. The railroads are carrying from points across the State cheaper than half way across In Bureau county when our people want to get Texas cattle and ship them at Quincy, they pay the price of shipping them to Chicago, and then get the liberty of taking them off at Princeton, a little over half way. I am not certain that the remedy which the gentleman proposes is the right one. I do not know that I would go for a law that would make railroad charges high to the people of Missouri and others wrest of us. I think I would allow them to go on and carry just as cheap as they have a mind to at all these competing points, and then my desire would be that there would be so many of these competing points, at a cheap rate, that they should become the standard for the whole State, YEAS. Abbott, English, Allen of Cwfd,Forman, Anderson, Fox, Anthony, Goodell, Bayne, Goodhue, B enjamin, Haines of Coo Cameron, Haines of Lake Cary, Hankins, Church, Hayes, Coolbaugh, Hildrup, Cross, McDowell, Cummings, Medill, Dement, Merriam, Eldredge, Neece, Ellis, Parker, NAYS. Browning, Harwood, Buxton, Hay, Craig, McCoy, Fuller, Moore, Gamble, Rice, ABSENT, OR NOT VOTI:NG. Allen of Alx'n,H anna, Sutherland, Archer, Hart, Turner, Atkins, King, Underwo od, Bowman, Pillsbury, Wall, Bromwell, Poage, Wells Brown, Robinson, Wilson, Br yan, Scholfield, Mr. President- 23. Cody, Skinn er, So the amendment offered by Mr. Haines, of Cook, was agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is on the adoption of the section as amended, and it will be declared adopted. The question is on the adoption of the fourth section. The Secretary read section four, as follows: Sze. 4. Railways heretofore constructed or that may hereafter be constructed in this State, are hereby declared public highways, and shall be free to all persons for the transportation of persons and property thereon, under such regulations as may be prescribed by law. And the General Assembly shall, from time to time, pass laws establishing reasonable maximum rates of charges for the transportation of passengers and freight on the different railroads in this State, and to enforce such laws by adequate penalties, and may provide for a forfeiture of their property and franchises. Mr. WHEATON, Mr. President: Is an amendment to section four in order? The PRESIDENT. It is not in order. Mr. WHEATON. Is a substitute in order? The PRESIDENT. It is not in order, inasmuch as the whole section has been agreed to-it being a proposition coming from the Committee of the Whole. The substitute should have been offered in Committee of the Whole. It is not open for amendment or for a substitute. 1, I (,'ONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION 1720 FP.IDAY, ABSENT, OR NOT VOTING. Allen ofAIxIn, Craig, Robinson, Archer, Dement" Scholfield, Atkins, Goodhue, Skinner, Bowinan, Hanna, Turner, Bromwell, Hart, Underwood, Brown, Kl-nL,. Wall, Bryan, Mei'iam, Wendling, Cary, Pillsbury, Wilson, Coolbaugh, Poage, Mr. President-27. So the amendment offered by Mr. Hayes was not agreed to. Mr. HAINES, of Cook. Mr. President: I would offer, as an amendment, the last part of the language of the substitute I offered a while ago, as to the majority of the directors. The PRESIDENT. The question is on the amendment offered by the gentleman frt)m Cook [Mr. Haines]. The yeas and inays were ordered, and being taken, resulted-yeas, 45, -nays, 18 -as follows: Sharp, Truesdale, VaDdeventer, WagDer, Wright-15, YEAS. Haines of Cook, Peirce, Haines of LI k., Sherrill, Hayes, Snyder, McCoy, Wagner, McDowell, W a,;i t, Perley, Whiting-19. Abbott, Anderson, Cameron, Church, Cross, Englisb, Forman, Allein- of crfld, Goodell, Anthony, Hankins, Bayne, Harwood, Benjamin Hay, Browning, Hildrup, Buxton, Medl-, Cody, Moore, Cummings, Neece, Eldredge, Parker, Ellis, Parks, Fox, Rice, Fuller, Ross, Gamble, SedL-wick, Shrp, Sl)riji —er 9'nthrla'nd, Tincher, Truesdale, Tubbs, Vandeventer, Washburn, Wells, Wheaton, Wright-37. MAY~~~ - 18 EAE N ROEIG.12 The amendment offered by Mr. Rice was agreed to. Section five as amended was agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the first additional section which the Secretary will read. The Secretary read the section, as fol lows: SEc. -. The exercise of the power and right of eminent domain shall never be so construed or abridged as to prevent the tak ing by the General Assembly of the property and franchises of incorporated companies al ready organized, and subjecting them to the public necessity the same as of individuals. The PRESIDENT. It will be declared adopted. The question is upon the second addi tional section. The Secretary read the section, as fol lows: SEC. -. The right of trial by jury shall be held inviolate in all the trials of issues or claims for compensation when in the exercise of the said right of eminent domain, any in corporated company shall be interested either for or against the exercise of said right. The PRESIDENT. It will be declared adopted. The question is upon the third additional section. The Secretary read the section, as fol lows: SEC. -. The capital stock of no railroadsth corporation shall be increased for any pn pose except upon sixty days' notice, in such manner as may be provided by law. The PRESIDENT. It will be declared adopted. Mr. WHITING. Mr. President: I offer the following additional section. The Secretary read the additional sec tion, offered by Mr. Whiting, as follows: There shall be appointed by and with the advice and consent of the Senate, three dis creet persons who shall be denominated Rail road and Warehouse Commissioners, who shall have such powers, perform such duties and tenure of office be such as may be pre scribed ly law. The officers hereby created shall continue in force until the year 1875 and may thereafter be renewed whenever the General Assembly shall determine. Mr. WHlTING. Mr. President: It will be remembered that I presented in Committee of the Whole a proposition somewhat like this one, but more elabo rate, containing something in regard to what should be the duties of these com missioners. I believe that the greatest objection to that proposition was that it entered into particulars too much contained too much. I have endeavored in this merely to utter the general principles, leaving their duties entirely to be regulated by law, and I will now offer a few words why that board of commissioners should be created. It is well known that we are emphatically a railroad State. Railroads are nowhere else being made at the rapid rate that they are in the State of Illinois to-day, and in a very short time our four or five thousand miles of railroads will be ten thousand. Very soon this capital of two or three hundred millions, that is now popularly supposed to be in the railroads, will be at least $1,000,000,000. Our action for the last day or two in this Convention, shows plainly enough the sensitiveness we have in reference to these giant corporations that are laying themselves all over the State, and that we appreciate the dangers and the evils that are surrounding us. I will only refer now to some of the evils that are pressing upon us, to show that some public officers should be charg YEAS. Fuller, Peirce, Goo dell, Rice, Hai nes of C'ok,Robinson, Hainesof L'ke,Ross, Hankins, Sedgwick, Harwood, Sherrill, Hildrup, Snyder, McCoy, Springer, McDowell, Sutherland, Medill, Tubbs, Merriam, Wagner, Neece, Wait, Parker, Washburn, Parks, Wendling, Perley, Whiting-46. NAYS. Allen of Cr'fd.,Goodhue, Browning, Hay, Eldredge, Hayves, Fox, Moore, Gamble, Sharp, ed withe dtin afr the duty of looking after them. First let me refer to the matter of taxes. It is well-known that the rail. roads of Illinois at the present time, are worth from one to three hundred mil lions. Take the tax book, and what are they assessed at? A little over $16,000,000. Suppose them worth only $100,000,000, and suppose we claim only that they shall be assessed, as our other property, at one-third their their value, this would give a valuation of $33,000,000. How much loss, then, occurs here, as between our burdened citizens and these railroads. These rail roads pay to the State and to the different localities about a half million of dollars taxes, while we are losing at least another half million by their too low assess ments. That portion of the General Assembly that sat in this room last winter, investi. gated the amount of transportation on these railroads, and found that it amount eic:{n the State of Illinois to about $30,000,000 for 1868, of which they estimated that about $20,000,000 were paid by the citizens of Illinois. By comparing the rates of transportation on Illinois roads with the rates from Chicago eastward, and over the hills of New England and ,New York, it is believed that we are paying unjustly nearly $10,000,000 a year in the State of Illinois, by extortionate charges. Again, we ascertain a part of. -the abuses that were practiced by unjust dis. criminations, such as carrying cheap freight from Missouri and Iowa and charging dear to the citizens of Illinois; and again, charging extortionate rates to some citizens and places to make up favors shown to others. Private individuals should not be compelled to look into all these wrongs, and attempt to redress them, but we need, on such a great subject as this, involving so much capital, involving vast interests, when these railroads are increasing with this rapid speed [Here the hammer fell]. Mr. ENGLISH. I move to lay the section on the table. The yeas and nays were ordered, and, being taken, resulted-yeas, 33; nays, 26 -as follows: ABSENT, OR NOT VOTING. Allen of Alex.Cody, Turner, Anthony, Hanna, Underwood, Archer, Hart, Vandeventer, Atkins, King, Wall, Bowman, Pillsbury, Wilson, Bromwell, Poage, Wright, Brown, Scholfield, Mr. President-23. Bryan, Skinner, So section four was agre ed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is on the adoption of section five. The Chair will suggest that the words ,$or other," before the word "corporation," have not been stricken out by any action of this Convention. It has been sugest ed that there was a clerical error. I The Secretary read section five, as fol lows: Sic. 5. No railroad or other corporation shall issue any stock, bonds, evidences df indebtedness, except for money, labor or property actually received and applied to the purposes for which such corporation was created, and all stock dividends and other fictitious increase of the capital stock or indebt. edness of any such corporation shall be void. Mr. BUXTON. I move to strike out the words referred to by the Chair. The motion was agreed to. Mr. RICE. Hr. President: I move to amend by striking out of the first and second lines of section five after the word ' bonds " the words " or other evidence of indebtedness." I have no objection Mlr. President, and can see none to the prohi. bition as to railroad corporations issuing stocks or bends, except for the purposes specified in the second line, but I think it would be wrong to prohibit the railroads from giving evidences of indebtedness accruing for any other purpose, or in settlement of any claim for damages, which they could not do, if limited to property or money actually received. I was under the impression that this was stricken out in Committee of the Whole, but it seems that I was mistaken. 431, DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1721 .MAY 8, 1870. Mr. WHEATON. I call for the yeas and riayson the adoption of the section. The yeas and i3ays were ordered. The Secretary proceeded to call the roll. Mr. MEDILL. Is it too late to move a reconsideration? Tht,,re is an exceedin-aly important amendment, of a single word, that ought to be made. The PRESIDENT. Two i-nembers have answered to their names. It is too late. Mr. ROSS. The Committee on Revision and Adjustment can be instructed to put that word in. The result was then announced-yeas 46, nays 14-as follows: Abbott, Anderson, Bayne, Benjamin, Buxton, Cameron, Cary, Chuyeh, Coolbaugh, Craig, Cross, Cu mings, Dement, Ellis, English, Forman, Tincher, Truesdale, welli3, Wheaton-14. TRA.S. Allen of Ctlfd.,Fuller, Anderson, Hainkins, Anthony, ]Elarwood, Benjamin, lay, Browning, Hifdrup, Cody, mccof" Cummings, McDowell, Ellis, loore, English, Neece, Forman, Parks, Fox, Rice, WAYS. Abbott, Goodell, Bayne, Goodhue, Buxton, Haine's of Con Cameron, IE[aines of Lak Cary, Hayes, Church, meilill, Cross,g. Merriam, Eldre e, Parker, Gamble, Perley, Robinson, Sedgwick, SDyder, Springer, Sutherland, TiDcher, T-Tnderwood, Vandeventer, Washb ru, IU Wendling, Wright-33. .LBSENT, OR NO Allen of Alex.,Craig, Areher, Dement, Atkins, Hanna ]3owman, Hart,, Bromwell, Kine. Brown, - Pillsbury, Bryan, Poage, oolbo c'agh, Rose, Beholfield, Skinner, Truesdale, Tubbs, Turner, W.11, Wilson, Mr. Preside-nt-;4. 172w ()ONSTITUT1ONAL ()OETIO FRIDAY, Mr. BENJAMIN. Mr. iPresident: I have not time. A maximum limitation could not well be fixed at ten per cent., because in some cases fifteen, and even twenty per cent. would not be an abuse, but only a reasonable compensation for the loan of money. I would therefore rather see nothing whatever on this subject in the Constitution, than a provision which might be so construed as to turn over to the courts in each particular case, those who may suffer from the extortionate demands of railroad corporations. The proposed section is unnecessary, and may be dangerous. The PRESIDENT. The question is on the adoption of the section. Mr. ALLEN, of Crawford. I call for the yeas and nays, Mr. President. The PRESIDENT. The Secretary will read the section. The Secretary read the additional sece tion offered by Mr. Allen, of Crawford, as follows: SEc. -. The GeneralSAssembly shall pass laws to correct abuses and prevent unjust discriminations and extortion in the rates of freight and passenger tariffs on the different railroads in this State, and to enforce such laws by adequate penalties, to the extent, if necessary for that purpose, of forfeiture of their property and franchises. The yeas and nays were ordered, and being taken, resulted-yeas, 32, nays 27 -as follows: T he question is on the motion of the gentleman from Cra wford [Mar. Allen] to refer the arti cl e to the Committee on Revision and Adjust me nt, and it will be declared adopted. [The following is the article as referred to the Committee on Revision and Adjustment:] ARTICLE-. SECTION 1. Every railroad corporat ion organized or doing business in this State, under the laws or authority ther eof, shall have and main tain a public office o r pla ce in t his State for the tran s action of its business where transfers of s tock shall be made and in which shall be kept, for public inspection, books, in which sha ll be r ecor de d the amount of capital. stock subscribed and by whom; the names of the owners of its stock, and the amounts owned by them r esp ectively; the amount of stock paid in and by whom; the transfers of said stock; the a mount of its assets and liabilit and ebtiand the names and place of residence of it s officers. T he directors of ever y railroad corporation shall annually make a report, under oath, to the Auditor of Public Accounts, or some officer to be designated by law, of all their acts and doings, which report shall include such matters relating to railroads as may be prescribed by law. And the General Assemby shall pass laws enforcing, by suitable penalties, the provisions of this section. SEC. 2. The rolling stock,and all other.movable property belonging to any railroad company or corporation in this State, shall be considered personal property, and shall be liable to execution and sale in the same man ner as the personal property of individuals, and the General Assembly shall pass no law exempting any such property from execution and sale. SEC. 3. No railroad corporation shall consolidate its stock, property or franchises with any other railroad corporation owning a parallel or competing line; and in no case shall any consolidation take place, except upon public notice given, of at least sixty days, to all stockholders, in such manner as may be provided by law. A majority of the directors of any railroad corporation now incorporated or hereafter to be incorporated by the lawslof this State, shall be citizens and residents of this State. SEC. 4. Railways heretofore constructed or that may hereafter be constructed in this State, are hereby declared public highways, and shall be free to all persons for the transportation of persons and property thereon, under such regulations as may be prescribed by law. And the General Assembly shall, from time to time, pass laws establishing reasonable maximum rates of charges for the transportation of passengers and freight on the different railroads in this State, and to enforce such laws by adequate penalties, and may provide for a forfeiture of their property and franchises. SEC. 5. No railroad or other corporation shall issue any stock or bonds, except for money, labor or property actually received and applied to the purposes for which such corporation was created; ~ nd all stock dividends and other fictitiouss increase of the capital stock or indebtedness of any such corporation shall be void. Additional sections: SEC. 6.: The exercise of the power and right of eminent domain shall never be so construed or abriged as to prevent the taking, by the General Assembly, of the property and franchises of incorporated companies already organized, and subjecting them to the public necessity, the same as of individuals. SEC. 7. The right of trial by jury shall be held inviolate in all trials of issues or claims for compensation, when, in the exercise of the said right of eminent domain, any incorporated company shall be interested either for or against the exercise of said right. SEC. 8. The capital stock of no railroad corporation shall be increased for any purpose except upon giving sixty days' public notice, in such manner as may be provided by law. SEC. 9. The General Assembly shall pass laws to correct abuses and prevent unjust discrimination and extortion in the rates of freight and passenger tariff on the different Jrailroads in this State, and to enforce such So the motion of Mr. English to lay on the table the section offered by Mr. Whiting, was agreed to. Mr. ALLEN, of Crawfofd. Mr. Presid ent: I offer the following additional section. The PRESIDENT. The Secretary will read the section proposed by the gentleman from Crawford [Mr. Allen]. The Secretarv read the sectijn offered by Mr. Allen, of Crawford, as follows: The General Assembly shall pass laws to correct abuses and prevent unjust discrimination and extortion in the rates of freight and passenger tariffs on the different railroads in this State, and to enforce such laws by adequate penalties, to the extent, if necessary, for that purpose, of forfeiture of their property and franchises. Mr. ALLEN, of Crawford. I propose to detain the Convention only while I make a few remarks. The Convention has adopted section four, requiring the Legislature to pass laws regulating the maximum price for freight. If the Legislature shall obey the injunction of the Constitution by fixing rates for the carriage of passengers and freight, and the courts shall decide they had no power so to do, the Legisla ture, so far as section ~four is concerned, would have no plan to fall back upon. I propose to add this section, that in the event the courts should determine the Legislature had no right to regulate these abuses, by fixing the exact amount to be paid on freight and passage, they may have this other provision to fall back upon, and set their wits to work to devise some other means of bringing railroad companies to terms. Mr. WHITING. Perhaps the gentleman would accept a single addition, to add "unjust discriminations." They are in the habit of discriminating between places, and making one place pay more than others. Mr. ALLEN, of Crawford. In my judgment, that comes within the abuse of their power; but I would prefer not to accept the proposition. Mr. WHITING. One of the greatest abuses practiced on us in Illinois, is that railroads single out certain places, and make them pay extortionate rates for the benefit of some other places. Mr. ALLEN, of Crawford. On reflection, I will accept the amendment. Mr. BENJAMIN. Mr. President: I trust that this swill not be adopted as an additional section, because I think there is danger in it. To illustrate: suppose the money loaners should take the position that inasmuch as there is a constitutional provision which declares that no person shall be deprived of life, liberty or property without due process of law, and that inasmnch as they have vested rights ill their own money, the Legislature could not interfere and say how much they should charge the public for the use of money, and inl order to meet that assumption of the userers we should put. in the Constitution a provision of this kind: It shall be the duty of the General Assem bly to pass such laws as wrill correct abuses and prevent extortion in the rates of interest. tinder such a provision the question might arise whether the Legislatulre could fixs the rate of interest at ten per cent. per annum, fox instance. Mr. ALLEN, of Crawford. Mr. Pres ident: Will the gentleman allow me to ask him a question? YEAS. Abbott, Forman, Sharp, Allen of oCrwfd,Fox, Snyder, Anderso n, Haines of LakeUnder wood, Antho n y, Hayes, W ai t, Camero n,.Mc Dowell, Washburn, Cody, Moore, Wells, Craig, Neece, Wendling, Cummings oru, Perley, Wheaton, Eldredge, Robinson, Whitingu Ellis, Ross, Wright —32. English, Sherrill, NAYS. Bayne, Haines of CookParks, Benjamin, Hankins, Peirce, Browning, Harwood, Rice, Church, Hay, Springer, Cross, Hildrup, Sutherland, Fuller, McCoy, Tincher, Gamble, Medill, Truesdale, Goodell, Merriam, Vandeventer, Goodhue, Parker, Wagner-27. M ABSENT, OR NOT VOTING. Allen of Alex.,Cary, Scholfield, Archer, Coolbaugh,'Sedgwick, Atkins, Dement, Skinner, Bowman, Hanna, Tubbs, Bromwell, Hart, Turner, Brown, King, Wall, Bryan, Pillsbury, Wilson, Buxton, Poage, Mr. President-24. So the additional section offered by Mr. Allen, of Crawford, was agreed to. Mr. ALLEN, of Crawford. Mr. President: I move to refer the article to the Committee on Revision and Adjustment. Mr. ANTHONY. Mr. President: I desire to offer the following proposition, to be added to the article. It is as follows: "this article shall be submitted separately to a vote of the people." Mr. CODY. Mr. President: I move that the proposition of the gentleman from Cook [Mr. Anthony] be referred to the Co mmittee on Sch edule, to carry out its object. The PRESIDENT. The motion of the gentleman from Crawfora [Mr. Al len], is not withdrawn, and the proposition of the gentleman from Cook [Mr. Anthony] is not in order. 1722 CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION FRIDAY2 0 MAY 6, 1870. DEBATES AD PROCk'EDIXGS. 1723 pointed for a definite term of office, may bc increased or diminished during such term a SEc. 5. No person who is in default, as collector or custodian of money or property belonging to a municipal corporation, shall be eligible to any office in or under such corporation. SEC. 6. Private property shall not be liable to be taken or sold for the payment of the corporate debts of a municipal corporation. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon concurrence with the Committee of the Whole in its amendments to the first section. The first amendment is to the second line of the section, by which was inserted after the word "power" the words "to make local improvements by special assessments," and it will be declared concurred in. The question is upon the second amendment, by which was stricken out all after the word "otherwise," in the third line, and it will be declared concurred in. The question is upon the amendment to section four, by which it was stricken out and the section recommended by a minority of the committee inserted as a subst i - tute, and it will be declared concurred in. the courts settle how they shall be made, as between the individual and the corporati on. To incorporate in the organic law of this State a section like this is so dagerous that I cannot refrain from raising my voice against it. And, Mr. Presid e nt, I call for the yeas and nays on the substitute. Mr. HAINES, of Lake. Mr. President: I concur in the view that this section is not only entirely uncalled for by the people of the State, but is a very dangerous proposition to incorporate into the Constitution, The complaint has been made by gentlemen, and especially by the gentleman from Adams [Mr. Browning] and the gentleman from DeKalb [Mr. Sedgwick], that in the light of decisions made, especially in the Larned case, it is impossible, in the towns in which they reside, to make the improvements spoken of. I then remarked to the gentleman from Adams [Mr. Browning], that that raised a question of veracity between him and myself, as to whether it was impossible to make these improvements, as the law now is. I do not understand it so. I do not understand the law as those gentlemen do. This decision referred to lays down a positive principle upon which to proceed, and if the gentlemen living in these towns alluded to would amend the charters of their towns,iso as to correspond with that decision, they would have no trouble in making local improvements, under the present provisions of the Constitution. In the early days of railroads, when they sought to take private property for their use, the courts were at a loss to determine upon what principle of law to give the remedy sought. About the first leading case on that subject laid down the rule to be followed. That case was called the Bonaparte case —Bonaparte v. The Camden & Amboy Railroad Company. It was a new principle, asked to be applied in the exercise of eminent domain, on the part of a private corporation. The court perpetually enjoined that company from taking any of the property of the complainant, Bonaparte, until they should make him compensation, or until their charter made some certain provision for compensation. They there made the distinction between the public and a private corporation. Thenext leading case was that of Bl3oodgood v. The Mohaqwk & Huldsonb River Railroad Company. After the case reached the court of errors, they laid down the rule in regard to the rights of such corporations, which has ever since been held to, and it is the law to-day. The court compelled the railroads to come to the rule as there laid down, as should be done under the law as it now is, without change of the law — for the worse. Novw, gentlemen seem to be confounds ed, simply because the court has laid down a rule in regard to special assessmerits, that they say they cannot unders stand. So gentlemen were in those days. The courts laid down a rule, but instead of changing the law, railroads changed their policy, and came to what the courts declared to be the law, and if these gentlemen would come now to what the supreme court of this State has declared to be the law in the Larned case, they would have no trouble in making their improvements. There is no call for this change, as I understand it. laws by adequate penalties, to the extent, if necessary for that purpose, of forfeiture of their property and tfranc hises. REMOVAL OF COUNTY SEATS Mr. CROSS. Mr. President: I move that the proposition submitted this morning on the subject of county seats be referred to the Committee on Schedule. The motion was agreed to. INSTRUCTIONS TO COMMITTEE ON REVISION. Mr. CHURCH. Mr. President: I desire to offer a resolution to instruct the Committee on Revision and Adjustment to insert a wtrd in a section of the article just adopted. Resolved, That the Committee on Revision and Adjustment be instructed to insert the word "their" before the word "persons," in the third line of section four of the railroad article. The PRESIDENT. It can be entertained only by general consent. MIr. WHEATON. I move to amend, if it is in order. The PRESIDENT. The resolution is not in order at present. Mr. WHEATON. I object to it, if I have not leave to amend. The PRESIDENT. The Chair will not entertain the proposition. MUNICIPAL CORPORATIONS. Mr. BROWNING. Mr. President: I move that the report of the Committee of the Whole on Municipal Corporations be taken from the table and the Convention proceed to its consideration. The motion was agreed to. [The following is the report of the standing committee:] SECTION 1. The General Assembly may vest the corporate authorities of cities, towns and villages with power, by special taxation of contiguous property or otherwise, to provide for grading, paving and maintaining, in whole or in part, streets and sidewalks; but no such improvements shall be made by assessing the belefits to be derived to private property therefrom. SEC. 2. For all other corporate purposes, all municipal corporations may be vested with authority to assess and collect taxes; but such taxes shall be uniform in respect to persons and property, within the jurisdiction of the body imposing the same. SEC. 3. The General Assembly shall not impose taxes upon municipal corporations, or the inhabitants or property thereof, for corporate purposes. SEC. 4. The fees, salary or compensation of municipal officers, elected or appointed for a definite term, after the adoption of this Constitution, shall not be increased or diminished after their several elections or appoinltments. SEC. 5. No person who is in default, as collector or custodian of money belonging to a municipal corporation, shall be eligible to any office in or under such corporation. USA. 6. Private property shall not be liable to be taken or sold for the payment of the corporate debts of a municipal corporation. [The fo~llowing is the report of the standing committee, as amended by the Committee of the Whole.] ARTICLE —. SECTION L. The General Assembly may vest the corporate authorities of cities, towns and villages, with power to make local improvement by special assessment or by special taxationl of contiguous property, or otherwise. SEC. 2. For all other corporate purposes, all municipal corporations may be vested with authority to assess and collect taxes~ but such taxes shall be uniform, in respect to persons and property, within the jurisdiction of the body imposing the same. SEC. 3. The General Assembly shall not impose taxes upon municipal corporations, or the inhabitants or property thereof, for corporate purposes.' SEC. 4. The fees, salary or compensation of~ no municipal officer who is elected or ap The question is upon the amendment to the substitute by which the word "shall" was stricken out and the word "may" inserted, and it will be declared concurred in. The question is upon the amendment to section five, by which after the word "money," in the fifth line, was inserted the words "or property," and it will be declared concurred in. The question is upon the first section. The Secretary read section one, as fol lows: SEc. 1. The General Assembly mav ve st the corporate authorities of cities, towns and villages with power to make local improvement by special assessment or by special taxation of contiguous property or otherwise. Mr. HAINES, of Cook. Mr. President: I look upon the proposition of section one as so important that I cannot withhold offering the following as a substitute. It is, in fact, section one of the minority report, and I will read for the information of the Convention the two sections. Section one of the minority report reads thus: SEC. 1. It shall be the duty of the General Assembly to provide for the organization of cities and incorporated villages by general laws, and to restrict their power of taxation, assessment, borrowing money, contracting debts and loaning their credit, so as to prevent the abuse of such power. Section one, as amended in the Committee of the Whole, is as follows: SEc. 1. The General Assembly may vest the corporate authority of cities, towns and villages with power to make local improvements by special assessment, or by special taxation of contiguous property, or otherwise. Now,we propose in the organic law of the State to clothe corporate authorities with more power-power very large, and s o ambiguous in its construction that I believe the time will come when great evils will will grow out of it, when those now in this Convention will see the day when they will be sorry that by their voice this section was incorporated into the Constitution. Cities in all the States in this Union are making special assessments under provisions similar to this in the first section of the minority report, or even under no provisions at all in their Constitutions. They are making theirs as we do to-day, under the power of eminent domain, and MAY 6) 1-870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1723 174 OOSTITUT1OAL GOYETIO FRIDAY, baugh] has a substitute which he proposes to offer for that. If he is not prepared to do so, I will myself offer section three of the minority report as a substitute for section two. The Secretary read section three of the minority report, as follows: SEc. 3. For all other corporate purposes, all municipal corporations may be vested with authority to assess and collect taxes; but all such taxes shall be assessed upon the valuation of property made for purposes of State taxation, and none other; and such taxes shall be unitform in respect to persons and property, within the jurisdiction of the body imposing the same. And no one species of property, from which a tax may be collected, shall be taxed higher than other property of equal value. Mr. ENGLISH. Mr. President: I move the previous question on this whole subject. The motion for the previous question was agreed to, and the main question ordered. The question being on the motion of Mr. Haines, of Cook, to substitute section three of the minority report, for section two of the article, it was not agreed to. Section two was then agreed to. The Secretary read section three, as follows: SEc. 3. The General Assembly shall not impose taxes upon municipal corporations, or the inhabitants or property thereof, for corporate purposes. Mr. CUMMINGS. Mr. President: I move the previous question on the adoption of the section. The motion for the previous question was agreed to, and the main question ordered. Section three was agreed to. The Secretary read section four, as follows: SEC. 4. The fees, salary or compensation of no municipal officer who is elected or appointed for a definite term of office, may be increased or diminished during his term of office. Mr. HAY. I move to amend that by striking out the words "or dimi)ised." Mr. TINCHER. I move further to strike out the word "increased." Mr. CUMMINGS. I move to lay the amendments on the table. The motion was agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is on the adoption of the section. Mr. CUMMINGS. I move the previous question. The motion for the previous question M R Ss agreed to, and the main question was ordered. The PRESIDENT. The question is on the adoption of the section, which will be declared agreed to. The question is on the adoption of the fifth section. The Secretary read section five, as follows: SEc. 5. No person who is in default, as collector or custodian of money or property belonging to a municipal corporation, shall be eligible to any office in or under such corporation. Mr. CUMMINGS. I move the previous question on the adoption of the section. The motion for the previous question was agreed to, and the main question was ordered. The PRESIDENT. The question is on the fifth section, and is declared adopted. The question is now on the sixth section. The Secretary read section six, as follows: Sc. 6. Private property shall n ot be lia'r bleo tao be tasoen or sold for the payment of corporate debts of a municipal corporation. Mr. CUMMINGS. I move the previous question. The motion for the previous question was agreed to, and the main question was ordered. The PRESIDENT. The question is on the adoption of section six, and it is agre ed t o. Mr. BROWNING. I move that the article be referred to the Committee on Revision. Mr. HAINES, of Cook. M#. President: I want to add au additional section. I wish to offer section five of the minority report, as an additional section. The Secretary read the additional sec tion, offered by Mr. Haines, of Cook, as follows: SEC. 6. The General Assembly shall pro vide that all taxes and assessments for State, county, city, township, school or other purposes, levied within a municipal corporation, shall be collected by the same person; and that all sales of property for delinquent taxes and assessments levied for all the purposes aforesaid, shall be made at one time in each year, and by the same person. Mr. ENGLISH. I move tolaythe sec tion on the table. The motion was agreed to. Mr. ELDREDGE. I desire to offer an additional section. The Secretary read the additional sec tion offered by Mr. Eldredge, as follows: The General Assembly may provide for the erection of public buildings on grounds dedi. cated to public use, in cities and incorpo rated towns, with the consent of the local au thorities. Mr. ELDREDGE. I have been requested to offer this as an additional section to the article, and I can see no objection to the adoption of it. The object is to per mit the erection of courthouses and other public buildings on public squares and commons in the cities and towns of this State, where the local authorities assent to it. Some doubt has been expressed, and I believe it has been stated to me by those who have investigated it, that the su preme court of New York and other States have held that without such a pro. vision as this such works cannot be thus carried on. That power, I am told, has been exercised in this State in several in stances, and at the request of parlies who feel a particular interest in it, I submit it for the consideration of the Convention. Mr. ENGLISH. I suppose, Mr. President, there is no objection and I move the previous question. The motion for the previous question was agreed to and the main question ordered. The PRESIDENT. The question is on the proposition offered by the gentleman from LaSalle [Mr. Etdredge.] The Secretarys will read the proposition. The Secretary read the additional scotion offered by'Mr. Eldredge, as follow~ The General Assembly may provide for the erection of public buildings on grounds dedi. cated to public use, in cities and incorporated towns, with the consent of the local authors_ ties. Mr. WAIT. Mr. President: If I understand that, I am opposed to it. The PRESIDENT. The previous question has been ordered. Mr. ANTHONY. Mr. President.! ~call for the yeas and nays. The proposition is that " vassessments may be made upon contiguous property, or otherwise." Are we going home to our constituents, indorsing such a provision as that? What does that mean? Let us have some definition or understanding of what is intended by " otherwise." It will take the next twenty years for the courts to work out a new rule and defilee what this provision means. We had better adhere to that which is certain, than risk this radical change. Mr. WENDLING. This whole subject, I believe, was thoroughly discussed in Committee of the Whole, and I presume every gentleman has his mind made up, as to how he is going to vote. I therefore move the previous question. The motion for the previous question was agreed to, and the main question was ordered. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon striking out the first section. The yeas and nays were ordered, and being taken, resulted- yeas 20, nays 34as follows: YEAS. Abbott, Haines of CookSutherland, Coolbaugh, Hayes, Tincher, Craig, Medill, Truesdale, Cross, Neece, Washburn, Fox, Parker, Wheaton, Goodell, Perley, Whiting-20. Haines of LakeRobinson, Anderson, Gamble, Anthony, Goodhue, Bayne, Hankins, Benjamin, Harwood, Browning, Hay, Cameron, Hildrup, Church,- McDowell, Cody, Merriam, Cummings, Moore, Eldredge, Parks, English, Rice, Forman, ABSENT, OR NOT V( Allen of Alex.,Dement, Allen of Crf'd.,Ellis, Archer, Fuller, Atkins; - Hanna, Bowman, Hart, Bromwell, King, Brown, McCoy, Bryan, Peirce, Buxton, Poage, Cary, Pillsbury, to. The,PRESIDENT. The question is upon the adoption of the section. Mr. ROSS. Is the section still subject to amendment? The PRESIDENT. The previous question having been moved, the section cannot be amended. Mr. ROSS. I will read the amendment which I propose. It is as follows: Ssc. 1. The General Assembly may vest the corporate authorities of cities, towns and villages, with power to make local improvement by special assessment or by special taxation of contiguous property, to the extent of one-half the cost of such improvement. Mr. BROWNING. You had better leave that to the General Assembly. Section one was agreed to. The Secretary read section two, as follows: SEc. 2. For all other corporate purposes, all municipal corporations may be vested with authority to assess and collect taxes;but such taxes shall be uniform, in respect to persons and property, within the jurisdiction of the body imposing the same. Mr. HAINES, of Cook. Mr. President: I believe my colleague [Mr. Cool p CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION FjRil)A-71 1724 NA.YS. Gamble, Goodhue, Hankins, Harwood, Hay, Hildrup, I McDowell, Merriam, Moore, Parks, Rice, Ross,, Sedwick. Sharp, I Sherrill, Snyder, Springer, Underwood, Vaiadeventer, Waaner, W.," Wendling-34. Scholfield, Skinner, Tubbs, Tarner, Wa.1 1, Wells, Wil " 'so Wrighe, Mr. President-29. So the motion of Mr. I-Taines,. of Cook, to strike out section one was not agreed MA 6,17. DBTE AND PRCEDNS 17 article the provision providing for the submission of the question of female suffrage. The PRESIDENT. The question is on the motion of the gentleman from Will [Mr. Goodhue] to take from the table the resolution of instruction. The motion was agreed to. The Secretary read the resolution offered by Mr. Goodhue, as follows: Resolved, That the Committee on Revision and Adjustment be instructed to strike.out the section heretofore adopted by this Convention, submitting to a vote of the people the question of female suffrage. Mr. WHEATON. Mr. President: I rise to a point of order. This is an instruction, if I understand the resolution, to the Committee on Revision and Adjustment, to strike out what has already been adopted by this Convention as a finality. If I understand the mode of proceeding of this body, it is that when an article or section, or portion of the Constitution is adopted, and referred to the Committee on Revision and Adjustment, that is an end of the matter. If it were not so there would be no end to this Convention. If, when theConvention has adopted an article, a bare ma jority or quorum could instruct the Committee on Revision. and Adjustment to strike out that article, the entire will of this Convention could be overthrown by a bare quorum. There would be no end to its action. Many of the members having gone home, a bare quorum might upset the whole work done in the last five months. I have no precedents before me, but as I recollect, the Constitutional Conventions of other States have decided that this action cannot be taken. The Convention in Massachusetts in 1862 so decided. I object to this resolution. Mr. GOODHUE. Mr. President: I have just one suggestion to make in reply to the gentleman. There are precedents a good deal nearer than those he cites, but cannot lay his hands on, and they are before us, and have been before us every day. We have voted in this Convention instructing the Committee on Revision and Adjustment to strike out particular portions of articles; at least Mr. WHEATON. Has the point been before this Convention? Mr. GOODRUE. I understand it has. The gentleman contends that the only duty of that committee is to adjust, not to revise. I believe the matter is still under the control of the Convention. Mr. McDOWELL. Mr. President: If I understand the effect of the motion ; that has just been acted upon, the resolution is now before us. v The PRESIDENT. The resolution is one of instruction to the Committee on Revision and Adjustment to strike out a certain article. The gentleman from : Kane [Mr. Wheaton] raises the point of or der, that it is not competent for the Convention to adopt such a resolution. ; This is a question which the 5Chair has anticipated would arise at some stage of the proceedings of the Convention. It often happens, indeed, has always happened in Conventions called to revise a Constitution, in the case of articles inconsiderately adopted, that the proper time within which to reconsider the action of the Convention has elapsed, while it has become very desirable that action should be taken res cin ding i n substance, r econsidering it s de cisions-and the Chair has consulted the precedents. They are numerous in our own State. - In the Convention of 1862 the practice proposed in the present instance was adopted in two or three instances. The question arose in Massachusett s in 1853, and a resolution of instruction to the Committee on Revision and Adjustment to strike out was permitted by the presiding officer of the Convention. The Chair is not aware of any precedents otherwise. If there are such, of course we would be glad to have them presented, and might revise its ruling. The Chair has heretofore allowed, in two instances, resolutions of instruction to go to the Committee on Revision. It must be apparent that inconsiderate or hasty action can be reached at the present time in no other way, and so far as the objection made by the gentleman from Kane [Mr. Wheaton] is concerned, that as otherwise gentlemen might abandon their duties in the Convention and a mere quorum substantially reconsider the action of the Convention, it is perhaps a sufficient reply that it is the duty of gentlemen to be present who are interested in any propositions until the very close of the Convention, and to see that their action is not to be reconsidered by a mere quorum. The point of order is not sustained. Mr. HAINES of Lake. Mr. President: I wish the Chair would take into account th3 fact that four of our members have died. The PRESIDENT. The resolution is in order and is before the Convention. Mr. WHITING. Mr. Presidentt: I have never discussed the question of woman suffrage, either for or against. I have never very fully and thoroughly made up my mind upon the subject. I cannot, of course, shut my eyes to the fact that there are many arguments in its favor founded upon principle, and that there are seemidgly very plaasible, and perhaps weighty arguments against it. Neither can I shut my eyes to the fact that this question, like a great many other things that prove a success, seems to be marching on; and I should not be surprised if in the near future it should become an accomplished and accepted fact. At least, it is a fair question for consideration and for discussion, and it is only just in the way of in. quiry that I now desire to speak of it. But this move happens now to involve ~something more than the merits of this question. I think the reputation of this Convention is some-what at stake. It is well known that this question has been very-much considered, directly and collaterally, during the months that we have been here assembled. It is well known that it was publicly discussed by ladies in favor of it, that collateral questionzs arose in this body, and that we may say it was fairly before us for months before this action was taken. This action when taken was, I think, deliberate, and a very considerable majority in this Convention voted that this question should be presented to the people for their decision. I should not, myself, have been at all disappointed, nor felt any anxiety upon the question had it been decided the other way. I know very well, I think? what the public judgment will be. I know when thiis is submitted to the pweo Fuller, Sherrill, Gamble, Springer, Goodell, Sutherland, Goodhue, Tincher, Haines of Co'k,Truesdale, Hay, Tubbs, Hayes, Turner, Hildrup, Underwood, Neece, Vandeventer, Parker, Wagner, Parks, Wait, Peirce, Washburn Rice, Wendling, Sedgwick, Wright-44. Sharp, ABSENT, OR NOT VOTING. Allen of Alex.,Dement, Poage, Archer, Forman, Ross, Atkins, Hanna, Scholfield, Bowman, Hart, Skinner, Bromwell, King, Wall, Brown, Merriam. Wil son, Bryan, Pillsbury, Mr. President-22. Buxton, So the additional section offered by M/r. Eldredge was not agreed to. Mr. BROWNING. Mr. President: I move the article now be referred to the Committee on Revision and Adjustment. Sir. ABBOTT. Mr. President: I wanted to offer.an additional section. The PRESIDENT. The question is on the motion of the gentleman from Adams [Mr. Browning]. The motion of Mr. Browning to refer the article on Municipal Corporations to the Committee on) Revision and Adjustment, was agreed to. [The following is the article as r eferred to the Committee on Revision and Adjustment.] ARTICLE — SsCTION 1. The General Assembly may vest the corporate authorities of cities, towns and villages with power to make local improvements by special assessment, or by special taxation of contiguous property or otherwise. Sic. 2. For all other corporate purposes, all municipal corporations may be vested with authority to assess and collect taxes; but such taxes shall be uniform in respect to persons and property, within the jurisdiction of the body imposing the same. SEc. 3. The General Assembly shall not im- pose taxes upon municipal corporations, or theinhabitants or property thereof for corporate purposes. SEc. 4. The fees, salary or compensation' of no municipal officer who is elected or appointed for a definite term of office may be increased or diminished during such term. SEc. 5. No person who is in default, as collector or custodian of money or property belonging to a municipal corporation shall be eligible to any office in or under such -corporation. SEc. 6. Private property shall not be liable to be taken or sold for the payment of the corporate debts of a municipal corporation. FEMALE SUFFRAGE. Mr. GOODHUE. Mr. President: I move the Convention do now take from the table a resolution offered by myself some time ago, asking the Committee on Revision to strike out from the suffra 0 432 i i i M.&Y 6, 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1725 The PRESIDENT. The question is on the additional section offered bv the gentleman from LaSalle [Mr. Eldridge]. The yeas and nays were ordered, and being taken, resulted-yeas 17, nays 44as follovt s: YRA.S. Cummings, Eldredge, English, Fox, Haines of Llk, Hankins, Harwood, McCoy, McDowell, Medill, ,Moore Perley, Robinson, Snyder, Wells, Wheaton, Whiting-'17. HAYS. Abbott Allen; Crfd. Anderson, Anthony, Bayne,. Benjamin Browning, Cameron, Cary, Church, Cody, Coolbaugh, Craig, Cross, Ellis, 172 COSIUTOA ('OYETO FRIDA the motion of the gentleman from Adams [Mr. Browning], to take up the report of the Committee on Electoral and Represen tative Reform. The motion was agreed to. The following is the report of the standing committee: SECTION 1. The apportionment of this State for members of the General Assembly shall be made by the Legislature every ten years beginning with the year 1871, in the following manner: The whole population of the State as ascertained by the federal census, shall be divided by the number "fifty-one," and the quotient shall be the ratio of representation in the senate; and the whole population shall be divided in like manner, by "one hundred and fifty-three," and the quotient shall be the ratio of representation in the house of representatives. SEC. 2. Three times the number of inhab. itants required for a senatorial ratio shall constitute a senatorial district, each of which shall choos e thr ee senators, and the term of office shall be fou r years. Three ti m es the number of inhabitants required for a representative ratio shall constitute a representative district, each of which shall choose three representatives, and the term of office shall be two years. The districts shall be formed of compact territory, bounded by county lines, and contain as nearly as practicable, an equal number of inhabitants: Provided, that no county shall be divided in the formation of representative districts, unless it shall be entitled to more than five representatives. SEC. 3. Where any representative district shall have a fraction of population above the ratio so large that, being multiplied by the number of regular sessions in a decennial period, the result will be equal to one or more ratios, it shall elect an additional representatiye in such years as its fraction, so multiplied, shall produce a whole ratio. SEc. 4. The same rules shall be applied in apportioning the fractions of senatorial districts, and the additional senators shall be allotted to the session of the decennial period to which they belong under the ratio. " SEC. 5. In all elections of senators or representatives' each qualified voter shall be entitled to as many votes as there are senators or representatives to be elected by the same constituency, and may distribute them (or equal fractions thereof) equally or unequally among the candidates, or concentrate them upon one, at his option, and the candidates highest in votes shall be declared elected. The following is the substitute offered by Mr. Medill to the report of the standing committee: Sica. -. The apportionment of this State for members of the senate shall be made by the General Assembly every ten years, beginning with the year A. D. 1871, on the basis of the whole population, as ascertained by the Federal census. SEC. -. The house of representatives shall consist of three times the number of the members of the senate, and the term of office shall be two years. Three representatives shall be elected in each senatorial district at the general election in the year A. D. 1572, and every two years thereafter. SEC. —. In all elections of representatives aforesaid, each qualified voter may cast as many votes for one candidate as there are representatives to be elected. or may distribute the same, or equal parts thereof, among the candidates as he shall see fit;* and the candidates highest in votes shall be declared elected. The foregoing sections shall be submitted to the legal voters of the State in the manner and form as may be provided in the schedule; and if it shall appear that a maiority of the votes cast are for them, then said sections shall be a part of the Constitution, and shall substitute the provisions of the legislative article with which they conflict; but if A majority of the votes are cast against said sections, then they shall be void and of no effect. Mir. MEDILL. Mr. President:* Ill the original report the article on minority representation consisted of five sections, and provided for a minority representa tion in both the senate and house of representatives. ple, it is highly probable that it will be rejected; but I ask now of the members of this Convention, what attitude it will place us in if at this stage we turn around and reverse our action? Will it not be said that, at the beck of a lady, from that stand, this body was made tj reverse its action? And will not that fact, of itself, be one of the high est evidences of the capacity of women? Will it not be the highest and strongest acknowledgment by us that women should take part in public affairs, if thev are ca pableb of changing the purpose of such a body as this, by one or two lectures? I am not for paying such a tribute to the woman cause. I therefore hope that the action which has been taken will be adhered to. I think that our character for good sense and stability demands that we adhere to the action that has already been taken. It strikes me if one or two lectures from a woman so change the opinion of this body, after the deliberation that we gave to that question, it will be some evidence that women should not only be allowed to take part in public affairs, but I am not quite certain but it will go to prove what the first lady lecturer here this win ter [Mrs. Willard] advanced as her the ory of "woman's rights"-"that men are out of their places in legislative halls, and on the judicial bench-that these places should be wholly given to women, and the men go to the fields and workshops." If we will now reverse our action at the instigation of the lady who came from Michigan to convert this body, then she comes but little Short of proving by her success, the doctrines of the first. Reverse our action, and, unwittingly, we do more for the "woman cause" than can any labor ot its friends. Mr. CUMMINGS. I move the previous question. The motion for the previous question was agreed to, and the main question ordered. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the adoption of the resolution offered by the gentleman from Will [Mr. Goodhue]. The yeas and nays were ordered. -The Secretary proceeded to call the roll. Mr. BAYNE (when his name was called) said: I have paired off with the gentleman from Clark [Mr. Scholfield]. Mr. GOODHUE (when his name was called) said: IX desire to explain my vote. ["Object,"2 "object."] Mr. GOODHUE. Then I vote "Aye." Mr. KING {when his name was called) said: Having paired off with the gentleman from Mercer [Mr. Peagel I desire to be excused. Mr. PEIRCE (when his name was called) said: Mr. President. Having agreed to pair off with the gentleman from Gallatin [Mr. Bowman], I ask to be excused from voting. Mr. WRIGHT (when his name was called) said: Mr. President: Having paired off about twenty years ago, I vote "No." [Laughter]. The result was then announced —yeas 83, nays, 28 —as follows: YEAS. Abbott, Eldredge, Moore, Allen of Crfd. Ellis, Neece, Anderson, Forman,.Rice, ABSENT OR NOT VOTING. Allen, o f Alex. Buxton, Poage, Archer, Hanna, Scholfield, Atkins, Hart, Skinner, Bayne, Hayes, Wall, Bowman, King, Washburn, Bromwell, Peirce, Wilson, Brown, Pillsbury, Mr. President-22. Bryan, So the resolution offered by Mr. Goodhue, instructing the Committee on Revision and Adjustment to strike out the section submitting to the people the question of fcmale suffrage, was agreed to. ORDER OF BUSINESS. Mr. BROWNING. Mr. President: I move to take up the report of t he Committee on Electoral and Representative Reform. It has not been referred t o t he Committee of the Whole, anrid, of course, has not been considered by that commit tee. The gentleman from Cook [Mr.Medill], chairman of the committee that made the report, has requested me to ask that it be taken up for consideration in Conventiotl, without being submitted to the Committee of the Whole, and I make the motion accordingly. Mr. PEIRCE. Mr. President: I desire to amend the motion, so that it shall appear as a motion to take up a section in-. troduced from the Committee of the Whole. on the thirteenth of April, in reference to local authorities subscribing stock in railroads. Mr. MEDILL. Mr. President: The report offered by the gentleman from Adams [Mr. Browning] was made the special order for yesterday, but I have given away for two days, to accommodate gentlemen who wished to bring forward their various propositions. I think it may be disposed of in a brief time, unless the Convention choose to debate it. It is quite short-a single proposition, and its merits are well understood in this Convention, and among the people. Hence there need be no waste of time in its consideration. Mr. PEIRCE. I will say that this prop osition has been discussed in Committee of the Whole, and will occupy but little time. I prefer to take it up to-day, as it is a subject on which we have already acted. The PRESIDENT. The question is, shall the Convention take up the report of the Committee of the Whole on municipal indebtedness for railroad pur" N o. " [ L a u g h t e r ]. ~p o s e s. t i n, te~h y s a l b e v i n f n f e t The motion to take up the report on municipal indebtedness was not agreed I I 1726 CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION FRIDAY, Anthony, Browning, Canieron, Cary, Church, Cody, Coolbaugh, Dement, Fox, Robinson, Goodhue, Sedgwick. HainesofCook,Shar,p.. Hankinr,l Spriiier, Harwood, Turner,. Ha,y, Wait McDowell, Wells, Medill, Wendling-33. NA.YS. Benjamin, McCoy, Craig, Merriam, Cross, Parker, Cummings, Parks, EnZlish, Perley, Fufler Ross, Gambl'e,, Sherrill, Goodell, Snyder, Haines of LakeSutherland, Hi.1drup, Tincher, Truesdale, Tubbr,, Underwood, Vandeventer, Wa,,,ner, Wa,ton,, Whiting, Wright-28, 0. MINORITY REPRESENTATION. The PRE-SIDENT. The question is on p MAY 6, 18~~70. DEAE AN.~OED~G.12 land no less an advocate than John Stu art Mill, besides thousands of other statesmen and writers. The best muiids of France and Germany are seriously pondering this reform in representation, and in Switzerland it is already adopt ed in some of the cantons. Two years ago, Senator Buckalew and seven or eight other senators, including Wade of Ohio and Morton of Indiana, prepared a powerful report in favor of minority representation. Senator Buckalew is now a member of the senate of Penn sylvania, and has secured this identical mode of representation, in the local elec tions of his own town, and in many of the boroughs of that State. Under this plan they have been this spring voting, and electing their aldermen and munrici pal officers, with entire satisfaction to a ll parties and classes of people, as I have been informed by the senator himself. It is proposed to submit this plan of representation to the voters as a distinct proposition. If they wish its adoption, they will vote for it. If they are not ready for it, they will reject it. The matter will be with them. It can cera tainly do no harm to submit it. Ou r constituents will be allowed an opportu nity to express their sentiments on this important matter. Why should they not have a chance to vote upon it? There are thousands of young men and progres sive men, anxious to have this question submitted for the purpose of taking the public sense on it, and during its discus sion, it will enable its advocates to edu cate the popular mina up to a higher and juster conception of true representative government. I would like, Mr. President, if I had time, to speak on this subject at some length, and consider its great merits fully. It is one I feel a deep interest in. Perhaps no proposition has come be fore this Convention that has more fully taken possession of my mind, because I believe it is one of the greatest and most valuable improvements in a free govern ment ever devised by the wisdom of man, since representative goverrnment has been established. I believe it is only a question of time when the principle of minority representation will be applied to all legislative elections, in Europe and America, from parliament or congress down to village aldermen, and in all other cases, when two or more officers are to be voted upon at the same time, for the same office. By this plan, and this only, can the democratic equality of the citizen be asserted and carried into practice and public life. When the people consider this question and canvass and study it, they will discover that it is the only true democratic plan of representation; that it puts in practice, as nearly as hu man wisdom can devise, the true ideas of representative government-the equal representation of all. And by no other method can we have equal representation. It brings this whole people, of all parties and classes, into tbe legislative halls, . through the agents of their own franchise. The whole people, instead of a plurality or majority, will be represented by this plan, and it is as much superior to the old method of representation as the whole is greater than the half. It does not attempt to take away any of the rights of the majority. The majority, under this system, will still rule, After mature reflection and consultation with the members of the, c'nmittee, I concluded to draw a substitute, which is much briefer, consisting of three short sections and restricting this experiment to one house instead of two. It was ob jected by a number of friends of the proposition, with whom I conversed, that the original report was a little too com plex for popular apprehension, covered rather too much ground, and that it would be better to present the article to the people in the very simplest form and confine it to one house; so with that view, and for that purpose, the substitute was prepared. It provides that the apportionment of the State for members of the senate shall be made by the General Assembly every ten years, beginning with 1871, on the basis of the whole population, as ascertained by the federal census. This section is simply in accordance with the legislative article already adopted, and is in the same words. The second section provides that The house of representatives shall consist of three times the number of the members of the senate, and the term of office shall be two years. Three representatives shall be elected! in each senatorial district, at the general elec tion in the year A. D. 1872, and every two years thereafter. In the legislative article we have provided that the house shall consist of three times the number of the senate; and in addition to that certain members for fractions are assigned to various counties entitled to them, but as we have struck out of the legislative article, all representation for senate "floaters," this article is made to correspond precisely with that senate provision. The senate districts will be large, and very few of them will have much over their proper ratio, consequently it is not necessary to provide for "floaters" in this article. The proposition, therefore, is a very simple one and easy of comprehension. In each senatorial district there shall be elected three members of the house of representatives. That will give a house of one hundred and fifty-three members. And the last proposition in regard to the mode of voting provides, that In all elections of representatives aforesaid, each qualified voter may cast as many votes for one candidate as there are representatives to be elected or may distribute the same, or equal parts thereof, among the candidates, as he shall see fit, and the candidates highest in vote shall be declared elected. This would confer upon each voter the power of casting three votes for one candidate, or one vote for each of three candidates, or one and a half votes for each of two. It gives him three choices without loss of electoral power. The effect is, to enlarge the power and influence of the voter, instead cf restricting him. HeB will'vote for three representatives if he chooses, but he wrill not be obliged to lose two-thirds of his vote if he opposes two of the candidates. If there are three candidates- before him he may throw two aside, and cast all his vote for one, or divide it equally between them. The plan is not only exceedingly simple and easily understood by thecommonest understanding, but it is entirely practical in its operationz. It is in the direction of a great and beneficient reform in government. The leading minds of the world are canvsasing this question earnestly and thoughtf'ully. It has in F_~! DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1727 MAY, 6,.1870. haViDg full and ample control, and still being responsible for the laws made, but th..s gives the disiratichi-.;ed i-nitiority, w ho i-nay ainount to almo,t one-half the community, som-,- voice, some representa tion in government, some chance to be heard. It secures representation with taxation, which the existing one-sided system does not. It gives the minority s,,)Tne opportunity to present their views, and defend their principles and interests in the halls of legislation. What can be r,a(-.,re just than that, or more correct in principle? I do hope -that this proposition may be submitted to the people of Illinois, by the unanimous vote of this Corivontion. I do not ask Gentlemen of this Convention, who do not believe in the rinciple of equal representation, to indorse it, but simply to give it to the people, let them vote on it and dispose of it as they see proper. I believe its presentation, in this form, will largely contribute- towards the adoption of this Constitution. There are thousands of yotidg men and advanced ininds in this State wh,-) think more bigi-ily of this proposition than of anything else we will have to off(-,-r them. Everything else Will seem to them dry aud unimportant in comparison with this great idea of equa,, representation of the whole people, against exclusive representation of a part. The disfranchised and down-trodden minorities will Everywhere rally to its support, and secure to the new Con,,titution for its sake a triumphant ratification. This great measure of reform will carry out pure dei-nocratic equ),Iity a d equal rights for alt men in the legislative halls; secure the equal representation of ev(-,ry citizen, the minority with the rna.ority, man for man; allay parti i san strife, reform legislative corruptiod, purify- the elective system, inspire good and quiet citizens to attend the polls, enable virtuous citizens to elect pure and able representatives, and to defeat bad aspirants It will gite contentment to all classes of vot(rs, secure representation for our loiig eDduriDg republican fri ends in democratic Egypt, and give the swallowed-Lip and buried under democrats of northern Illinois a chance, also, of being heard in our legislative halls, by men of their own selection. This plan will work o harm or re.udice to either of the 1q28 COSTITUTIOXAL c'OYETION FRIDAY, before the people, and stand or fall upon its own merits. It may be that it is, to some exten', an innovation upon existing customs and systems, but if this is to serve as a valid objection, we must, to be consistent, stop short in the path of progress, for no improvement of any kind can be introduced against which that objection will not lie with equal force. If we are to hold to what we have already, simply because we are accustomed to its use, and are to array ourselves against wholesome improvement, on the ground that we should oppose that which is new, we become at once fossilized in our ideas as a nation, having our treasures in the past. If this maxim had been adopted by us as a people thirty yearsago,what today would have been out position? Objection has ever been raised against each one of those grand improvements which have advanced civilization, and brought unmeasured blessings on the human race. The objection is a frivolous one, and it is unnecessary to take up Ltime in its discussion. It suggests its own refutation. It has been said that the proposition suggests a problem which the public mind can not grasp; that the masses of the people will be unable to comprehend a system so complicated in its provisions as the one submitted. This assertion, if correct, would unquestionably carry with it very great force. I am not prepared to deny that, if sustained, this charge should incline us to act with very great care and prudence in the disposition we may make of this question. Before determiningwhat weight attaches to this suggestion, however, it is necessary for us to satisfy ourselves of its truth. What evidence has been produced in its support? Not a single word, although all has been spoken and written by its opponents that can be said or written-all has been brought forward that can be. Are we to condemn all important proposition upon mere supposition, resting on no higher authority than that of reckless assertion? No, sir. So far from the people being unable to comprehend the practical working of the scheme submitted, I affirm that it is the people-the common people-who alone understand it, who have bestowed upon it that thought, to which it is entitled, and who advocate in the most earnest manner its adoption. So far from the term "minority representation" being unknown to the working classes of the country, it has become familiar as t household words. The subject may be a new one to some gentlemen in this body, but it is an old one to the public. The people have, as a general rule, far stronger perceptive powers, on all questions affecting their own interests, than we are iin the habit of giving them credit for possessing. The question, in all its phases, has been discussed, until it is almost thread-bare, by the industrial classes, for the past four years; its problems have been solved by them without difficulty, and they are united in demanding its adoption. - If we are disposed to stand still upon this subject, and shrink from the respollo sibility that is resting upon us, we will find that the masses of the-people, like time and tide, will wait not for ust and that when, like Rip Van Winkle, we awake, it will be to find that the world . has made wonderful progress during our i slumbers. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION FRIDAY, lt28 It is saying much in behalf of any prop - osition when we can set out with the assertion that it is sound in principle, that it has its foundations in justice and truth. It is saying still more when we can add to this assertion that the method proposed for carrying the principle into practical operation is the best and simplest that can be devised, and that by the adoption of that method we may be instrumental in removing from our present system, evils, the existence of which no one undertakes to deny, and which no one should seek to perpetuate. The public voice is gathering strength on this question of representation from day to day, not only throughout the length and breadth of this country, but in all lands in which representative government exists. The public interest, in my humble judgment, imperatively demands the recognition of the principle in the Constitution of the State. Such, I subiuit,is the character of the proposition before us for consideration and action, and its friends have at least the right to demand that ome valid reason be assigned for delaylDg or opposing a measure so just, so practicable and so needed. The correctness of the principle asserted, no one has attempted to call in question, and no one can successfully call in question. It has occupied the attention and received the approval of the most profound thinkers of the,,ioe: it has successftilly withstood the severest tests of adverse criticism, and its friends rest confident in the conviction that whatever may be the action of this Constitutional Convention upon it, its -ultimate recoghition and success is assured, and that we can at most determine whcther Illinois shall "take the lead or follow in the wake." No one will venture to deny that individuals composing the minority have the same rights of representation as those composing the majority. They possess the same right of suffrage, and no one will venture to assert that under the, present system, the former are not as much disfranchised as if deprived of .that right. The right of the majority to the preponderating idfluence is not questioned by any one, but who can doubt that the minority has an equal claim to proportionate representation, and that if re resented the would often modi The -principle asserted in the report of the committee, is certainly the principle on which representative government throughout the world will ultimately be based. We live in an age of progresF3; systems are changing everywhere. Illinois may take in this the lead. If she does not, we will certainly be called upon at no distant day to follow in the foot. steps of others. With the forces that are around us, in all directions, pressing Onward. with an energy that never tires, in the path of. progress, we cannot stand still. f he time is an auspicious one for us. The eyes of the friends of genuine reformarereStiDgUpOnUS. Ouractionis beiiigregardedwithsolicitude in every country in which representative government exists. The result of our action upon this question, so far from being reLyarded asi unimportant or, unobserted, will be flshed with ligtniing speed, not only throughout this country but to the shores of Europe. A refusal to submit the question to a separate vote of the people can do no good, and its reference to the great popular tribunal can do no harm. I trust we will unite here in ordering its submission, and when we go to our homes unite in securing its adoption. Mr. GOODHUE. IVIR. President: I desire to make a few remarks upon the report of this committee. I think, perhaps, that my constituents are not in favor of this minority representation, but since the subject is to be submitted to the people separately, I feel authorized to carry out my own conviCtiODS upon this qtiestion, and shall vote for it. I desire to assign some of the reasons which induce me to vote in favor of it. I lay, down the'proposition, in the first place, that it means only one thinrf-it means free speech upon the floor of the Legislature. It means free speech, and nothing else, and I believe if any one thing can be demonstrated, it is the proposition which I have laid down. For the purpose of doing so, let us analyze the manner in which the functions of our government are performed. Suppose the people (;f this State were assembled in mass meeting, that, in other words, we had established here a pure democracy-when such an assemblage come together for the purpose. of deliberatin u on measures fir the ur ose MA ^, 180DBTSADPOEDNS12 I think, sir, that wherever there is a large Dumber of people in a State like this who desire to have a question submitted to them to be voted upon separately, and desire to express their views upon it, we ought to allow them to do so, whether we agree with them or not and; for that reason —the same that governed me in the precedent of female suffrage, although I am opposed to this, as I was to that I shall vote for submitting this proposition to a separate vote of the people. I shall vote "Aye." The result was then announced-yeas, 49, nays, 12-as follows: YEAS. Bowman, Hanna, Skinner, Bromwell, Hart, Wall, Brown, Hildrup, Wilson, Bryan, McCoy, Mr. President-21. S o secti on two w as ag reed to. The PRbESIDENT. The Chair, if th e r e ls no objection, will put the questiOin upon the third and fourth s ect ions together. The Secretary read, as follows: SEc..-. In all elections of representatives aforesaid, each qualified voter may cast as many votes for one candidate as there are repres ent ative s to be elected, or may distribute the same or equal parts thereof, among the candidates as he shall see fit; and the candidate highest in vote shall be declared elected. The foregoing sections shall be submitkted to the legal voters of the State in the manner and form as may be pr,vided in the sche dule; and if it shall appear that a majority of the votes are cast for them, then said sections shall be a part-of the Constitution, and shall substitute the provisions of the legislative article with which they conflict; but if a majority of the votes are cast aganst said sections, then they shall be void and of no effect. * The PRESIDENT. The Secretary will call the roll. Mr. WENDLING. Mr. President: I would suggest that the yeas and nays are not necessary. Mr. TINCHER. Mr. President: I want to record my name against every section. As to the fourth section, I have no objection, as that relates only to submnission, and, as to that, I withdraw the call for the yeas and nays. The PRESIDENT. The question is on the adoption of section three. There is but one section —the Chair was misled. The Secretary will call the roll. The yeas and nays were ordered, and being taken, resulted-yeas, 46, nays 17 -as follows: else, will be really and substantially a reform, and give us some sufficient guarantee against the wrongs that have been perpetrated in this State, and will con sta,jty b e perpetuated in the name and by the authority of majorities. Under thi s sy stem we have min orities represented as well as majorities. Minorities who cartnot appear in the General Asseribly and discuss measures for themselves, might do so through the ir repres en tatives in the low er house of the General Assembly, Under this plan minoritifb s s tre plrced in a position where they caln discuss any measure brought forward, and wh ere they can, to the best of their asility, a dvo c ate or oppose it by their influence and their arguments. After this ii done they have accomplished all they can accomplish, they have discharged their duty and they have not interfered witha the rigt t hthat majorities h ave to rule in the slighte st degree, because major.ities, u nder this system, as well as the alid.ust govern, and the voice of the majxriy, when once it passes into a law, becomes the expressed will and authority of the State. [Here the hammer fell]. M'r. CUMMINGS. Mr. President: Belierving as I do t that this has been fully dinarcussed, I move the previo us questioni. Mr. WAIT. I h ope th e gentleman will w ithdraw that for a moment; the debate ha s all be en on one side thus far. I desire to rec nerd my vote against any probositi;. giving minorities power to be at majorities when the majorities all vote. ha r. TINCHER. Well, we will vote on the other. [Laughter]. }a r. CUtIJI,MINGS. I cannot withdraw this motion The motion for the previous question ware agreed to, and the main question ordered.I Tbi!l Secretary read section one, as follows: Snc. —. The apportionment of this State for members (:)f the senate shall be made by the General Assembly every ten years, beginning with the year A. D. 1871, on the basis of the whole population as ascertained by the federal census. The yeas and nays were ordered. 'I'Te Secretary proceeded to call the roll. Mer. PARKS (when his name was calle~d) said. Mt. President: I swould like to ha;te about three minutes to explain my ["tOb-ject," "object."]. Mlr. PARKS. I would thank the gen-' tleman if-f [' O -j ec[,"obiect." "Leave," "Leave."] Bir. BROWNING. I move the gentle. msan have leave to make an explanation- bf~r. SNYDER. Go on. The PRES3IDENT. The Chair under- st~ands the objection to be withdrawn. Of coursie it is competent for any genatleman to object. Mr. PARES. I shall vote to submit this doctrin~e (of electoral reform to a separate vote of the people, not because I am in favor of it, for I am not.; but I have already voted in this Convention to submit the question of female suffrage to the people, although I was not in faVor of it; and on the same ground, which I shall state in about a minute, I shall vote to submit this question..~ 433 Abbot t, Fo, Sharp, Allen of Crfd.,Gamble, Snyder, 'Anderson, Goodell, Springer, Antho ny, Goodhue, Su therland, Benjamin, Haines ofCook,Triiesdale, Browning, Haines of Lake, Tubbs, Cameron, Hay, Turner, Church, Hayes, Underwood, Cody, McDowell, Wagner, n Coolbaugh, Medill, Vandeventer, Craig, Merriam, Washburn, Cross, Moore, Wells, Cummings, Parks, Wendling, Dement, Perley, Wheaton, Ellis, Ross, Whiting, English, Sedgwick, Wright-49. Forman, ABSENT, OR NOT VOTING. Allen of Alex., Cary, Pillsbury, Archer, Hankins, Poage, Atkins, Hanna, Scholfield, Bowman, Hart, Skinner, Bromwell, Hildrup, Wall, Brown K, Kig, Wilson, Bryan, McCoy. Mr. President-22. Buxton, So section one was agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the second section. The Secretary read section two, as foll~ ~ ~ ~ ~~~~ ~~~ow s: ( w:B y e a e s o L a e p i g r SEC.-. The house of representatives shall consist of three times the number of the members of the senate, and the term of offlee shall be two years. Three representatives shall be elected in each senatorial district, at the general election in the year A. D. 1872, and every two years thereafter. ThTe yeas and nays were ordered, and being taken, resulted-yeas, 47, nays, 15 -as follows: Gamble, Sedgwick, Goodell, Sharp, Goodihue, Shetrill, Haines of CookSnyder, Haines of Lake Springer Hay, Sutherland, Hayes, Truesdale, Hildrup, Tabbs, McCoy, Turner, McDowell, Underwood, Medill, Wells, M(oore, Wending, Parks, Wheaton, Perley, Whiting, Ross, Wright-6. YEA.S. Abbott, Forman, Sedgwick, Allen of Cr'fd.,Fox, Sharp, Anthony, Gamble, Sherrill, Bayne, Goodell, Snyder, Benjamin, Goodhue, Springer, Browning, Haines of Co'k,Sutherland, Cameron, Haines of Lake, Truesdale, Cary, Hay, Tubbs, Church, Hayes, Turner, Cody, King, Underwood, Coolbaugh, McDowell, Wells, Craig, Medill, Wendling, Cummings, Moore, Wheaton, Dement, Parks, Whiting,t Ellis, Perley, Wriaht-47. English, Ross, So section three was agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The article will be referred, as adopted, t o the Commi ttee on Revision and Adjustment. [The followingis the article as referred to the Committee on Revision and Adj ustment]. S-e. l. -The apportionment of this State for m,embers of the senate shall be made by the General Assembly every ten years, beginning with the year A. D. 1871, on the Pasis Neece, Parker, Peirce, Rice, Robinson, I I i IIAY 6, 1870, DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1729 NAYS. Neece, Parker, Peirce, Rice, Ba.yne, Eldredge, Fuller, Harwood, Robinson, Sherrill, Tincher, Wait-i-,. YEAS. Abbott, Allen of Clfd. A,nderson, ' AnLhony, Bayne, Browning, ; Cameron, I Cody, Coolbaugh, Crai, Cu,nrnings, Dernent, Ellis, English, Fornaan, Fox, NAYS. Merriam, Neece, Parker, Peirce, . Rice, Robinson, Benjamin, Church, Cross, Eldredge, I Fuller, 1 Harwood, Tincher, Vandeventer, Wagner, wait, Washburn-17. ABSENT, OR NOT VOTING. Allen of Alex. Buxton, Poage, Archer, Ctry, Scholfield, Atkins, Hankins,, Skinner,,, Bowman, Hanna, Wall, Br(.)mwell, Hart, Wilson, Brown, King, Mr. Preside'nt-20. Bryan, Pillsbury, NAYS. Anderson, Cross, Eldredge, Harwood, i'derriam, Tincher, Vandeventer, Wagner, wit, Washburn-15. ABSENT, OR NOT Allen of Alex.,Buxton, Archer, Fuller, Atkins' Hankins I I Pillsbury, Poage, Scholfield, 11730 COSTITUT1OAL OONNTIO FRIDAY, subscriptions when the same have been authorized under existing laws by a vote of the people of such municipalities, prior to such adoption. This section shall be sub mitted to the legal voters of this State in manner following, to wit: Separate ballots shall be provided at each place of voting, entitled, "For section -," and "Against section -;" and if it shall appear that a majority of the votes cast are for section -, then the said section shall be a part of the Constitution of this State; but if a majority of the votes cast are against section -, then the said section shall be void and of no effect. ADJOURNMENT. Mr. FORMAN. I move that the Convention do now adjourn. A division was ordered. The Convention divided, where being twenty-three in the affirmative and thirtytwo in the negative, the motion was not agreed to. MUNICIPAL SUBSCRIPTIONS TO STOCK. Mr. PEIRCE. Mr. President: I desire to say in explanation of this section, that it was introduced with the purpose, if passed, of referring it to the Committee on Revision and Adjustment, with instructions to strike out section forty-four of the legislative article. It will be remembered that in section forty-four of the legislative article, there is a provision that town, county and city authorities may subscribe to the capital stock of railroads when authorized by a vote of two-thirds of the inhabitants of s uch municipalities. That two thirds provision was discovered to be exceedingly objectionable both to the friends of subscriptions to railroad stock and the opponentsof said subscriptions. It seems to have been so unfortunate as to call down upon it more opposition than perhaps any single section which has passed this Convenrtion. It was my purpose in introducing the section which is now being placed upon the tables of the members, to provide for a separate submission to the people of the distinct proposition of subscription by town, county and municipal authorities to the capital stock of railroads; that is to allow the people themselves to decide for themselves whether there shall be a provision contained in the organic law, protecting the property and rights of minorities against the danger which is now so prevalent and so much complained of, of having it voted away by the msjority. As this subject was discussed largely, when it passed the Committee of the Whole, I do not desire to take more time upon it. I move the adoption of the article. Mrs WENDLING. Mr. President: Believing that this question was sufficiently discussed in the Committee of the Whole, and thinking that there can be no objection to submitting the question to the people, I now move the previous question. The motion for the previous question was agreed to, and the main question ordered. Mr. WENDLING. Mr. President: I notice that it is not stated here that this article is to take the place of section forty four of the legislative article. Should it not be stated in connection with this report? Mr: PEIRCE. Mr. President: I would say to the gentleman that I design to act in perfect good faith in reference to this matter. If this shall pass the Convention, I shall moyself offer a resolution that it be referred to the Committee of the whole population, as ascertained by the Federal census. SE. 2. Thie house ofrepresentatives shall consist of three ti mes the nu mbe r of' th e mem be r s of a the senate, and the term of office shall b e two years. Three representatives shall be elected in ea ch senat orial d istrict at the general election in the year A. D. 1872, and every two years thereafter. SEC. 3. In all elections of representatives aforesaid, each qualified voter may cast as many votes for one candidate as there are representatives to be elected, or may distribute the same, or equal parts thereof, among the candidates, as h e shall see fit; and the candidate s high est in votes s hall be d ecl a red elected. The foregoing sections shall be submitted to the legal voters of the State in the manner and form as may be provided in the Schedule; and if it shall appear that a majority of the votes cast are for them, then said sections shall be a part of the Constitution, and shall substitute the provisions of the Legislative Article with which they conflict; but if a majority of the votes are cast against said sections, then they shall be void and of no effect. FEM1ALE SUFFRAGE. Mr. HAINES, of Lake. Mr. President: I have a proposition which I intended to offer some time ago, which can go in here, as well as elsewhere. The Secretary read the proposition offered by Mr. Haines, of Lake, as fol lows: Any citizen of the United States who shall have resided permanently within the borders and jurisdiction of the State for three hundred and sixty-five consecutive days, shall be a citizen of this State, and as such shall have, possess and enjoy all the rights, privileges and benefits of any other citizen. The PRESIDENF. The announcement by the Chair of the reference to the Committee on Revision and Adjustment was only formal, and might be disregarded; but the Chair does not regard the proposition as germane or kindred to the article. Mr. HAINES, of Lake. Mr. President: I offer it for adoption, and move its adoption. Mr. SEDGWICK. Mr. President: I move to lay the proposition on the table. The motion was agreed to. MUNICIPAL CORPORATION SUBSCRIPTIONS TO STOCK. Mr. PEIRCE. Mr. President: I move to take from the table the report of the Committee of the Whole, viz: the article relating to subscriptions by municipal corporations to the capital stock of railroad or other private corporations. -The motion was agreed to. [The following is the article as originally submitted by Mr. Peirce:] SEC. —. No county, city. town, township, or school district, shall ever become sub' 6criber to the capital stock of any private corporation, or make any donation to, or loan its credit in aid of, any such corporation. This section shall be submitted to the legal voters of this State in the manner following, to wit: Separate ballots shall be provided at each place of voting, entitled "for section -,' and "against section-*" and iflit shall appear that amajority of the votes cast are for section A-, then the said section shall be a part of this Constitution; but if a majority of thes votes cast are against section A-, then the said section shall be void and of no effect. [The following is the article as amended by the Committee of the Whole:] ARTICLE A-. SEC. —. No county, city, town, township or other municipality, shall ever become subscriber to the capital stock of any railroad or private corporation, or make any donation to, or loan its credit in aid of anly such corporation: Providead however, that the adoption of this article shall not be construed as affectingz the right of any municipalftys-to make suchi o n R ev ision aid Adju s tment to strike out s ection forty-four. Mr. WENDLING. I did not intend to question the good faith of the gentle man. I simply want the matter under stood, so that there will be no mistake about it. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon concurrence with the Committee of the Whole in its first amendment, by which the words "school district" were stricken from the first line, and the words "other municipalities" were insert ed in place thereof. The question is upon the second amend ment, by which the word "private" was stricken from the second liile, and the words "railroad or private" inserted in place thereof. The amendment was agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the proviso inserted in Committee of the Whole. The Secretary read the proviso, as fol lows: Provided, however, that the adoption of this article shall not be construed as affect ing the right of any municipality to make sue h subscriptions when the same have been authorized tinder existing laws by a vote of the people of such municipalities, prior to such adoption. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the amendment to the eighth line by which the words'"this Constitution" were stricken out, and "the Constitution of this State" inserted. The amendment was agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the adoption of the article. The article was agreed to. Mr. CODY. I would suggest the propriety of referring this article directly to the Committee on Schedule, as that is where it belongs. if it goes to the Cormmittee on Revision, it will be required to pass upon it. Mr. PEIRCE. I have no objection. The PRESIDENT. It will be referred to the Committee on Schedule. [The following is the article as referred to the Committee on Schedule]. ARTICLE SEC. —. No county, city,town, township or other municipality shall ever become subscriber to the capital stock of any rail'oad or private corporation, or make any donation to, or loan its credit in aid of, any such corporation: Provided, however, that the adoption of this article shall not be construed as affecting the right of any such municipality to make such subscriptions when the same have been autborized, under existing laws, by a vote of the people of such municipalities, prior to such adoption. This section shall be submitted to the legal voters of this State, in manner lollowing, towit: Separate ballots shall be provided at each place of voting. entitled "For section A," and "Against section-," and if it shall appear that a majority of the votes cast are for section A-, then the said section shall be a part of the Constitution of this State;* but if a majority of the votes cast are against section —, then the said section shall be void and of Do effect. REPORtT OF THE COMMITTEE ON EDUCA. lT30 CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION FP.IDAY, TION. Mr. PARKS. I move that the report of the Committee on Education be made the special order for to-morrow at halfpast nine. The motion was agreed to. INSTRUCTIONS TO THE CO4MITTEE OF RE,VISION. Mr. CHURCH. I would like to call . up the resolution that I offered this after MA,17.DBTSA- RCEIG.13 o The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The 1 Chair would beg leave to state to the . gentleman that the Convention have all ready ordered the appointment of thir teen. e Mr. TINCHER. Then, sir, I with- draw my proposition. Mr. CUMMINGS. Mr. President: I fully recognize the idea that the party in power should have a majoritv of this ' committee. I can see disturbances aris ing from the districts selecting and pre senting names to this Convention, but I can see harmony in a committee being ap pointed by this Convention, selecting names throughout the State and present ing th em to this Co nvention, for their adoption or rejection. If a committee should be appointed, as a matter of course they would select prominent members of this Convention-those who would carry the greatest weight and the most influence. This is the object I have in view nothing more or nothing less. I recog nize the principle that the party in pow er should have a majority of the commit tee to be selected, but more than that I do not see that they are entitled to. More than this they should not have. If the members are selected by districts we will have to compare in the Convention to see how the committee stand politi cally, and make changes to suit. When a committee of five, or any number, is ap pointed and select names, they will select them with the idea of giving the domi nant party the predominance in the com mittee. Then we will know just what to do —we will understand it thoroughly. My own opinion is that it will be decidedly better to have a committee ap pointed. Then we will have the most prominent members of the Convention brought immediately before the people. Mr. GOODHUE. Mr. President: I have only one suggestion to make in reference to this matter. Our only anxiety for this Constitution, which we have nearly concluded framing, if it shall be acceptable to us, will be to induce its adoption by the people; and I presume there is no sort of disposition among the members of the party to which I belong to be unfair in this matter. For one, I believe we ought to adopt a rule of entire equality, so far as this matter is concerned, and that whatever scheme is adopted, each party should be properly recognized. W~e have moved on harmnoniously so far, and I feel confident that nothing will be done now in reference to the question that will at all mar the harmony that has heretofore prevailed -that will at Ell1 tend to defeat the work which we have so nearly concluded. Mr. WAGNER. Mr. President: When I made the motion, the subject of politics did not occur to me at all. It simply occurred to me that inasmuch as the President of the Convention felt a delic~acy in making the appo3intmuent, the method I suggested would be the fairest way of coming at it. I should not object to a modification of my motion so as to leave the Convention to concur in the nomination made by the committee. Mr. WENDLING. Mr. President: I believe that every gentleman concedes the propriety of selecti:~g one member of this committee from each congressional district in the State, but I apprehendclthat he requested me to ask the Convention tc appoint that committee if it determined to have the committee on the address He is unavoidably absent, and in all probability will be until Tuesday morning. In his view, whatever committee was to be appointed, ought to be appoint ed at once, that they might be prepared to enter upon their work, and he request ed me to ask the Conventions to adopt some plan for the appointment of that committee. The question is on agreeing to the report of the committee. The resolution reported by the committee was agreed to. Mr. WAGNER. Mr. President: I move that the delegates representing each congressional district, appoint from among their number one to represent them on that committee. Mr. CUMMINGS. Mr. President: I move that a committee of five be appointed to present names to this Convention for their adoption. Mr. HAYES. Mr. President: I hope that the gentleman from Fulton [Mr. Cummings] wsill withdraw his proposition. I think he can see that there are reasons why that proposition should not now be adopted. The President of the Convention is not here, and I am sure there is no disposition on the part of any one on this floor to seek anything but a fair committee, which will result if that appointment is made by the congressional districts. I hope the motion will be withdrawn. Mr. ENGLISH. Mr. President: I proposed the first resolution with reference to the appointment of a Committee on an Address. My impression has always been, and is now, that inasmuch as the majority of the members of this body belong to the republican party, and inasmuch as that party constitutes much the largest portion of the voters of this State, this committee ought to be largely republican, and that the chairman of it ought to be a republican. The proposition of the gentleman from Carroll [Mr. Wagner] will secure that, and I think that is the proposition that ought to be adopted. Mr. TINCHER. Mr. President: While it may be true that the vote of the State would show a large republican majority, it is also true that both parties have got to do a good deal of voting for this Constitution to carry it, and while I have no objection to the party to which I belong having a majority of the committee, I think that the other party ought to be fully represented, and that nothing more than a bare majority should be given to any one party. I cannot conceive that there can be any party question in this matter at all, in any possible phase; and as I know that the object of these gentlemen in making these motions is to harmonize and bring to the support of the Constitution as much strength as possible, perhaps a committee appointed from each congressional district will secure that object. But if in my district there should be a democrat better qualified to use the English language, so as to mean a great deal in a few words, I should not hesitate a moment to put him in. I would move to increase the committee a little more by providing that there beone from each congressional district, and one from the State at large, so that we will be fully represented in that committee, as we are in congress. NINETIETi H DAY. SATURDAY, May 7, 1870. The Convention met at nine o'clock, &. m., and was called to order by the President pro tempore (Mr. Allen, of Crawford). Almighty and most merciful God, we invoke again this morning, Thy blessing upon this Convention in all the duties and proceedings of this day. We ask Thee, 0 Lord, for Thv grace, and for that inspiration which cometh from Thy holy spirit, to go with them in all their public duties and private ways. That they may know what is right and acceptable in Thy sight, and that they may love Thee and desire to promote the best interests of their fellow men. We pray Thee bless them with that wisdom which alon e gives understanding. Uphold them by Thy reviving and strengthening grace, and wilt Thou be with them always, we ask for the sake of Jesus Christ, our Lord. Amen. READING OF THE JOURNAL. The Secretary proceeded to read the journal of the last day's proceedings, when Mr. ENGLISH. Mr. President: Irmove that the further reading of the journal be dispensed with. The motion was agreed to. THE ADDRESS TO THE PEOPLE. Mr. UNDERWOOD. Mr. President: The Committee on Miscellaneous Subjects to which was referred several resolutions in reference to an address to be published with the proposed Constitution, have had the same under consideration, and instructed me to report back the following substitute, and ask its adoption: Resolved, That a committee of thirteen be appointed to prepare for publication with the revised Constitution submitted to the electors of this State, an address stating the changes proposed to the existing Constitution, and the reasons therefor. While up I wish to ask that under no contingency, I be appointed on that com. mittee. I am now on the Committee on Revision and Adjustment, which will occupy the whole of our time while here, and when the Convention adjourns my business, too long neglected, will demand my undivided attention. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. In a conference with the President of the Convention, last evening, anticipating that this report would be made to-ddy, t t t c n c a s a t a MAY 6) 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1731 noon, t,) which th2re was' objection-to insert the word "their," in the third line, before the word "persons," in the fourth section of the article on railroads. Mr. BENJA.IVIIN. If the gentleman will allow me, I will move to amend, by including in it a further instructionthat the committee strike out from the section all after the word "State," in the sixth line. The amendment offered by Mr. Church, as amended by Mr. Benjamin, was agreed to. - ADJOURNMENT. Mr. CUMMINGS. Mr. President: I move that the Convention do now adjourn. The motion was agreed to. So the Convention (at five o'clock and thirty-four mirutes) adjourned. PRAYER. Prayer was offered by the Rev. Mr. McLo,an, of Springfie'id, as follows: CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION there will be some difficulty in making that selection, unless we adopt some such plan as is suggested by the gentleman from Fulton [Mr. Cummings]. I think it will occur to every delegate that thebest way forthese thirteen to be selected is to appoint a sub-committee to make that selection. I, therefore, shall support the motion of the gentleman from Fulton [Mr. Cuam mings] that a committee of five select thirteen, one from each congressional district. Ii regard to selecting them with reference to p,)litical representation, that sub committee can do that the same as the Convention can. I now move the previous question upon the adoption of the amendment of the gentleman from Fulton [Mr. Cummings]. Mr. PARKER. I move to lay the motion with the amendment upon the table. The motion was not agreed to. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The question is upon the amendment offered by the gentleman from Fulton [Mr. Cummit,gs] to the motion of the gent leman from Carroll [Mr. Wagner]. A division was ordered. The Convention divided, when, there being twenty-two in the affirmative and twenty-two in the negative The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The Chair will vote in the affifrmative. So the amendment off3red by Mr. Cummihgs to appoint a committee of five wets agreed to. The motion of M[r. Wagner, as amended by Mr. Cummings, was agreed to. SEc. 4 No teacher, State, county, town pared by this Convention in a regular issue penalties as may be provided bythe General D. C. WAGNER, this State may receive a good common school Ih The motion of Mr. Wagner, as amend- Mr. WN LI. I now v tuh to. adoption of the resolution. ed by Mr. Cummings, was agreed to. adoption of the resolution. The CHAIRMAN. The question is now The motin was ageed to.on the adoption of the section. PRINTING CONSTITUTION AND ADDRESS. So the resolution, as amended, was onthe adoption of h in agreed to. ~~~~Mr. KING. Mr. Cara:Id o Mir. TUBBS. Mr. President: Yester- agreed to. think the committtee understood thequesday I voted against the resolution to COMMITTEE TO SELECT COMMITTEE ON tion when they voted to strike out the have the Constitution published in the ADDRESS. word "minor"-asthereporthadnot been papers of the State. I thought it at that The PRESIDENT ro tm I distributed. I call for a division upon the time premature. I thought then, as now, se o te r tepore. n question that if this address is to be published, it ursuance of the order ot the house, e Mr. MCOY. Tr. Chairman I ho sh,uld accompany the Constitution. Chair will announce the following com the word "minor" will not be stricken If inoider, I ixow nove tit thiis address reittee appointed for the purpose of sc out. I do not understand that because be published with the Constitution, in lecting thirteen delegates to acpremparte tan a person has passed twenty-one years the nevwspapers of the State, and that address to accYmpany the C onstitution: of age, he h s thereby ceased to be the additional compensation be allowed there- Messrs. Cummiugs, Springer, Anderson, child of soniebody. I hope some point for in proportion to the length of the Tincher and Wagner. will be fixed at which a person willcease address EDUCATION. going to a common school at the public Mr. HAINES, of Cook. Mr. President: Mr. PARKS. Mr. President: I move expense. I move that the question of compensa- that the Convention go into Committee The question being upon striking out tion and publishing be divided. of the Whole for the purpose of consid- the word "minor," in the second line, a Mr. CAMERON. I desire to state ering the report of the Committee on Ed division was ordered. that it is the intention of the Committee ucation. The committee divided, when, there on Printing to have the address accom- The motion was agreed to. being twenty in the affirmative and pany the Constitution, in the papers that So the Convention, as in Committee of eighteen in the negative, the motion was publish the Constitution, as a part thereof. the Whole (Mr. Hayes in the chair), pro- agreed to. Any paper publishir-g the Constitution ceeded to consider the report of the Com- Mr. TRUESDALE. Mr. Chairman: I will publish thie address without extra mittee on Education. move to strike out the word "children," compensation. [The report is as follows:] in the second line, ad insert "all persons Mi Ih uecndlier twe tyinser yalersn The PRESIDENT, pro temfpore. The SECTION 1. The General Assembly shall under twenty-one years." question is on the motion of the gentle- provide a thorough and efficient system of The motion was not agreed to man from Warren [Mr. Tubbs] that the free schools, whereby all minor children of Mr. FULLER. -Mr Chairman Imove paperspublishing theCth i s State may receive a good common school to strike out the word "of" afer "chilpapers publishing the Constitutiton se out h lish the address also. edcation. lisqh the address also. SEC. 2. All lands, moneys, or other prop- dren," in the secoud line, and insert Mr. TINCIJER. Mr. President: The erty, donated, granted or received for SenOOl, within," so that it will read "children chairman of the committee has stated that college, seminary or university purposes, and, within this State," instead of "children of the address would be considered a part the proceeds thereof, shall be faithfully ap thi State." plied to the objects for which such gifts or of the same publishing job. plied to the obectsfor which such gifrants were made. Mr. HAY. What is the question, Mr. Mr. ROSS. The trouble is their reso- SEC. 3. Neither the General Assembly nor Chairma,},? lution does not say anything of the kind. any county, city, town, township, school dis The CHAIRMAN. The question is I think we had better reconsider it, and triet, or other public corporation, shall ever on the motion of the gentleman from ,make any appropriation, or -pay from any pubmodify it so as to make it a part of the licake and aphptopriat higir aid of anb Stark [Mr. Fuller], to strike out the word lie fund whatever, anvthing in aid of anyStr[MFulr,tstieottewr same job. " of," i h eo ~same ~j~~ob~. church or sectarian purpose, or to help sup- "of," in the second line, and insert Mr. GOODHUE. I would ask for the port or sustain any school, academy, setnina- "within." reading of the resolution adopted yester- ry, college, university or other literary or si Mr. HAY. Mr. Chairman: I ask would ~~~~~~day morning.entific institution, controlled by an accept as an amendday morning. or sectarian denomination whatever; nor The Secretary read the resolution re- shall any grant or donation of land, money, ment, to strike out all after the word ported by the Committee on Printing and or other personal property ever be made by I "schools," in the second line? 17-on2 SATURDAY, MAY 7, 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1733~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ education, and it is provided that that education shall be common, and free to all persons. The comnion school system of late years has improved and is improving, but it is not contemplated that all academic education shall be taught in the common schools, or a collegiate education. Those higher branches are only studied by a few, by the ambitious, and the sons of the wealthy, but the common school is designed for the many, and affords a knowledge of those indispensable branches to all ranks of society. The academic course is calculated to prepare one for some particular pursuit in life,, and so with the collegiate course. Only the common schor)l we propose to make free by general taxation. Hence I do not think we can use any term that will more definitely express the idea so as to be understood by the masses of the people, than the expression, "common school education." Mr. CHURCH. Mr. Chairman: Would not the words "common school education" being inserted render it liable to a construction to mean "common school education" as it is at present known and determined by law? Would it not fix it at its present status so that there could be neither improvement nor change? Mr. UNDERWOOD. Mr. Chairman: I think not. The common school system we must take as it has been, and as it is, and as it probably will be; and this section evidently looks at the princi)ple of taking it in the past, and looking at the future. It states that the General Assembly shall provide a thorough and efficient system of free schools, whereby the children or minor persons of the State may receive a common school education. Persons who wish to cultivate the higher branches ought to do so at their own expense. They are generally the ambitious or the wealthy, and the people of the State are not yet prepared to establish free schools for any other branches than those required in all kinds of business, to enable one to perform his duties as a good citizen. Mr. RICE. Mr. Chairman: I hope that the amendment of the gentleman from McHenry [Mr. Churlch] will not be adopted. I do not think that it is the object of this Convention to establish, nor do I think that the wants of the country justify the establishment of public schools for any other than minors or children. To strike out "children," and insert "persons," in lieu of it would be to establish not only a system of education for the children and youth of the country, but would in effect render it possible to annex to it a charity school at the expense of the people for all the adult persons of the country who might desire to go into these schools. I think as much as the Convention ought to do is to provide for the education of the minors of the country by a system of taxation I and at public expense. No man who has reached his majority, or woman who has reached her majority, and who assumes the burdens and duties of life, and is not under guardianship, has a right to demand that he or she shall be educated at the public expense. That, I think, would be the possible effect of striking out "children" and inserting "persons." Then, I am in favor of adhering to the words "common school education." The only principle by which we can justify Mr. PARKS. Mr. Chairman: It is suggested to the committee, and was just now suggested to me by the gentleman from Adams [Mr. Browning], that it would be better to say "whereby all persons in the State may receive a good common scnool education," and I should prefer that to anything proposed. Mr. CHURCH. Mr. Chairman: I move to strike out in the section all after the word "schools"-since the gentleman from Sangamon [Mr. Hay] did not make the motion. The CHAIRMAN. The amendment is not -in order till after the questions is taken upon the amendment offered by the gentleman from Stark [iMr. Fuller]. The question is on the amendment offered by the gentleman from Stark [Mr. Fuller]. The amendment offered by Mr. Fuller was not agreed to. Mr. CHURCH. Mr. Chairman: Inow move to strike out all after the word "schools," in the second line, and insert in lieu thereof, "whereby all persons of the State may be educated." The standard of "common school educationa" is liable to undergo great changes, and its degree and limited character should not be fixed in a Constitution. Mr. PARKS. Mr. Chairman: I would like to suggest that it would be better to adopt the amendment suggested by my friend from Adams [Mr. Browning], and say "persons"-"whereby all persons may secure a good common school education." Mr. CHURCH. I have no objection to that, Mr. Chairman. The CHAIRMAN. Does the gentleman make the motion to strike out? Mr. CHURCH. Mr. Chairman: I understood the motion had been made. The CHAIRMAN. It has not been. Mr. CHURCH. Then I make it, Mr. Chairman. The reason I do 0o is because the deft nition of a "common school education" may be very much misunderstood, and reference must be had, sometimes, to some particular law in force at some particular time (I believe there is a standard now fixed by law); whereas, providing here for a good education, leaves the matter to the improvements and advancements that the age may suggest and require. I can well remember when a common school education meant} simply} "to read} write and cyph~er." I have no doubt that that is so understood by some people to this day, even, notwithstanding all the advancement on the subject of education. I want this provision so broad that whateveE education the spirit of the age mway demand, that all the citizens and people of the State shall receive in common, they may receive under the system of free schools here sought to be perpetuated. Mr. PERLEY. Would it not suit the gentleman to strike out all after ";schools,"' and insert, "for all persons in this State?" Mr. CHURgH. That will meet my views. Mr. UNDERWOOD. Mr. President: I hope the amendmcnt will not be adopted. There are three different kinds of education, for only one2~ of which the State provides; for the other two parties are supposed to pay. "Common school education"' is well understood all over the country. The first part of the second line indicates that it shall be a thorough and efficient system of common school 434 MA-Y 7, 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1733 taxing all the property of the country for educational purposes is, that the benefits of those taxes, like the tax itself, reach and spread out over all ranks and classes of society. It is not the object of the committee, and I hope not of this Convention to establish a system of comnion schools and annex to it a system of schools designed for the benefit of special classes or special interests, or education in special professions or special arts, but to embr-,%ce the system of education which ought to be the common endowment and possessio.i of every man and woman in this country. If persons desire more or special attainments, or a higher education, or an education that shall fit them for some special pursuit or l'or some pro. fession not common to the people of the State, they ought to expect to get such attainments by their own exertions, their owli means and their own industry. Any oti""r system, I think, would be partial and unjust, and I hope the ladgua,ge of the report in that respect will be adhered to. Mr. ENGLISH. Mr. Chairman: Do I understand that there is a motion peiidiDg to strike out all after the word "I,chools," in the seco.,qd Iiiae? The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman from McHenry [iVIr. Church] made a motion to amend, which lie modified subseqlieiatly, upon the suggestion of the gentleman from Marshall Perley]. The gentleman from Marshall will please state the motion or send it up in writidg. Air., PERLEY. Mr. Chairman: To strike out all after the word "schools," and insert Ilf,,,r all persons in this State." The CHAIRMAN. That is the question before the committee. Mr. ENGLISH. Mr. Chairman: In my opinion, the object of such a provision as this in the Constitution, is simply to dec.lare tl-iat the State shall keep up a systeal of free schools. The details of that, it seems to me, oueht to be left to the General Assembly. It seems to me it would be wisdom upon our part simply to strike out all after the word "schools," and add nothing. We have, in the preparation of the Constitution, so far as we have gone, left but very little for the Leg.slature to do. We have accomplished nearly everything in the way of legislation that can be de,ired for years, and it seems to me we ought to give the General Assembly some discretion. Let us leave something for it to do. All we ought to do is, to declare, that they should keep up a system of free schools, and 1 am therefore in favor of' striking out all after the word "schools," and add notliidg more. Mr. VANDEVENTER. Mr. Chairman: I am favorable to a part of the mo. tion made by the gentleman from Marshall [,Nlr. Perley], so far as he moves to strike out the second line, after the word "schools." I agree'in the main with what. has been said by the gentleman from Greene [Mr. English], that all that is incumbent upon this Convention, in the furtherance of education, is to declare that the system of free schools shall always hereafter be retained in the State, at the public expense; but it strikes me that there would be some ambiguity in regard to what a "common school education" would be. We could arrive at a correct conclusion CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION to be allowed to attend school. There will be very few such persons. I think this amendment reads right t,hat the General Assembly should pro vide the means of education for all per sons-and I hope the amendment will be adopted. Mr. PARKS. Mr. Chairman: I think the committee would unanimously accept the amendment if it were not for one thing. They desire to make this section which they made,just as short as possible. The object they had in view was to make it plain to the people of the State, in that sentence, that they were not to be taxed for the support of colleges. We thought that we ought to limit the provision in the Constitution to common schools, so that no man in the State should raise the objection that he was to be taxed to sup port colleges and the higher institutions of learning. We, therefore, confined it, in exp?ress terms, to common schools, which everybody understands. Mr. WASHBURN. Mr. Chairman: I certainly am not in favor of striking out the word "children" from this section. It may be true that there is some ambiguity or uncertainty in the expression, "a %good common school education," and yet I apprehend that we have acquired, by long custom and use of that phrase, such a definite idea of what a good common school education is, that it is not so indefinite as to mislead either the public, the bar, or the courts. But in regard to striking the word "children" out, opening public schools to any and everybody, and to all kinds of education, I must maintain that it is opening a system of public charities, and a temptation to expend the public moneys that cannot fail to be detrimental to public interests. Gentlemen say they do not know by what right we can withhold or why we should not grant to persons who are over twentyone, and have not obtained a good educa. tion, the opportunity of going to the publie schools. That may be a very charitable view of the case, but on the same principie I would ask by what right a rich man, without children, refuses to his poor neighbor who has a large family of children or withholds from him a part of his wealth? Why does he not contribute and make them as comfortable, as rich, as himself? We have not charity enough to do that, and yet it is just as right and reasonable to do that, as to educate those children, as well as, or better than, yourselves. But I have another and stronger point. Charity begins at home, and some people say, it very frequently ends there. This system of education of ours is not a system of State education. It is a very comfortable thing for gentlemen, situated in one part of the State where the masses are very wealthy, to compel, by their votes, the people in sections where they are poor, to educate their children, and not only their children but the adult persons there. If there should be a county in this State where the population of "fifteenth amendments" has accumulated, it is a very comfortable thing for gentlemen who -have none of that population, and are otherwise favorably situated, to vote, not their own f munds, but the funds of their poorer neighbonrs, for the education of those "fifteenth amendments." If the State system were fixed so that these gentlemen had to pay 1731 SATURDAY, 1% as it now exists. There are certain branches taught, under tlio direction of school directors, and it is certainly well known that the languages and the higher brar.ches of mathematics are not generally tau-ht in these common schools. I would like to see this system left in such shape that, if, hereafter in the further development of civilization, the Legiilattire should see fit to authorize all of the hioher branches to be tau bt, in these common schoots, there should be no constitutional impediment ia the way. I am, moreover, not in favor of retaining free schools for old men, or for any body over twenty-one years of a-e. Mr. CHURCH. Why not? Mr. VANDEVENTER. I think, that if people have arrived at years of maturity, and are without'au education, they cannot insist upon the tate maiiutaidi'ng a system of free schools for thew. I am in favor of educating minor children until they are twenty-one years of age, but when persons attain the age of twentyone years, they should be required to pay for their own education. If they have been so circumstanced up to that aoe as not to have got their education,, wilt not say they shall invade the public schools and crowd out the little fellows. It is sufficient, I think, to provide for the education of the youth of the country, and not to educate the adult population. Mr. CHURCH. Mr. Chairman: The education of adults may change their politics. Mr. VANDEVENTER. Mr. Chairman: I know nct by what authority the gentleman makes the insinuation that my hostility to educating the adults, arises from any di,-,position on my part, to change the politics, or not to change the politics, of anybody. I have no idea that it will cha-ijge their politics. I supp,LNse the gentleman ineaDS that by educq the tld men we shall change their P-litics from democracy to republicanism. But I do not think he need be alarmed about educatir-g the colored population because I think they are all disposed to affiliate with the party to which the gentleman from McHenry [NIr. Church] belongs, and whose integrity he assumes to defend by retaining the African influence. Mr. PERLEY. Mr. Chairman: I am their proportion of the,iuoney out of their own pockets for educating these people instead of forCiDg the poorer people at the other end of the State to pay their money out, they would view this matter in rather a different light. I hope the word "children" will not be stricken out. There is no demand anywhere that this State should undertake a gigantic system of education for adults, in which there shall be a race between the differedt parts of the State as to who shall. expend the most money and charge the neighborhoods with the highes,',, "t,ixation. I think the section, as amended, is res-soinable. I would not be very particularly opposed to striking out all after the word "schools," but I am opposed to the amendment of the gentleman from McHenry [Mr. Church], because in some counties of the State the system of adult education would be very burdensome, UDjust and oppressive. Mr. MOORE. Mr. President: I am satisfied with this section. I wish to have the common school system made as desirable as it can be. If "miuors" and "children" are both stricken out, then the effect will be this: Here are three directors in a district. They go round to get the -number of children. That is the first thing they have to do in order to find out how much school-room, and how many teachers they want, and must employ. If this change is made, the presumption will be that every person, no difference what the age may be, will, attend the, schools. How can these directors sav who will go to school, and who will ot go? They now go to work and get all the children betweea seven and twenty-one years, can tell just how many children they have, how much room they have to provide, and how many teachers they must employ. But supposing the words "minor" and "children" are stricken out, and the word "Persoias" inserted, how can directors ever tell how many school-rooms, or how many teachers they are to employ? These taxes are large, and very burdensome, and there are complaints in some portions of the State, that the poor peo-ple are taxed much more than their proportion, because their children- go only three or four months, while the children of the wealthier people go eight or nine DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. I If any gentleman in the State wants to t publish school books, let him retire from the field of teaching. ["And of direci tor."] Yes, sir; and let the directors atI tend to their business of seeing that the school is well managed, without going into the furniture business. No teacher, State, county, township or dis trict school officer shall ever be interested in the sale, proceeds or profits of any book, apL paratus or furniture. Why, I am exceedingly thankful to the Committee on Education that has pro vided a section with so few words to Lnmeet so many objectionable things that have grown up under our school system. It is not uncommon to find a man in a district who is a director or something of that kind, going to Chicago he mav not be a manufacturer and there contracting with a manufacturer for some furniture. Or he may go to'New York and do the same thing, because he gets a certain per cent. for wiping out the old furniture in the school house and putting in new. We want this section exactly as report ed, and I hope the committee will not consent to change one syllable in it. I do not, Mr. Chairman, propose to detain the committee in the discussion of the question. I hope we may come to a vote upon it. The CHAIRMAN. Does the Chair un derstand that the gentleman from Logan [Mr. Parks] moves as an amendment the matter reed a moment ago? Mr. PARKS. I only read it for infor mation, sir, not knowing that it would be in order, so that it might be before the Convention as a possible amendment, to be considered before the disposition of the question. The CHAIRMAN. It is in order now to make that amendment. Mr. ANTHONY. Mr. Chairman: I agree with the gentleman from Schuyler [Mr. Fox], that to put this section in the organic law would be legislating against a class —it may be a humble class, but a very worthy one. I can see no reason, for my part, why because a person has been engaged in the business of teaching, has from experience, found out any defect in the method of teaching, or anything else of value, in regard to education, and has written out his views, should be deprived of his vocation because of becoming an author. Why should he not en. jury the fruits of his labor Ms well as any 'body else! I will call the attention of the committee to an instance where, in a neighboring State, a short time ago, there wvas a constitutional provision whereby a great many who were engaged in the practice of the law were to be deprived of the right of exercising their vocation. The case was taken to the United States supreme court, which said that could not be done even in an organic law, and so the provision was set aside. I krnow of no reason why we should legislate against teachers any more than against lawyers. Sir, I am reminded, in this discusson ouf the words of B3rougham, forty years ago, and I wish the gentleman from Vermilion [Mr. Tinchef] would ];zten to them arnomerit. In1 speaking upon this subject, he compares the vocation of the teacher with the soldier, and exalts him above the soldier, becaux he wars on vice iand ignorance, and not against his!Iellow-man. Het says: Mr. PARKS. Mr. Chairman: If ] may be allowed to explain: I was about to state that there was a difference of opin ion in the committee as to whether such a section as this should be incorporated in the article and that a majority finally concluded it had better be. I remember a gentleman came here to the Convention, represented himself as interested in education, said some teacher had got up a very valuable work, and that the result of this section would be that either he could not sell his book, or would have to give up teaching. The committee have since, again taken the question under advisement, considered whether they could not modify it in some way, and concluded to submit it to the Convention and abide its action. The gentleman from Montgomery [Mr. Rice], who was a prominent member of this committee, proposed this section, and was perhaps the strongest in its favor. The view he strongly urged was, that if we left this matter open, it would leave before schoolteachers and school officers, State, county and district, the temptation constantly to get up new school books, and to, by their position and influence, speculate out of the people. I confess there are difficulties in the case. I shall be satisfied with whatever disposition the committee choose to make of it. I would be glad, and I am sure the committee would, to hear from the gentleman from Monritgomery [Mr. Rice] fully on this question, for he is perhaps better able to canvass his side of it than any other. Mr. FOX. Mr. Chairman: I think this is a very obnoxious principle sought to be inaugurated legislating against a class. Teachers are a class-a profession. Why seek to legislate against a class in the fundamental law? Would the members of this Convention like to be subjected to special legislation in their respective professions? I move to strike out the word "teacher."' I am opposed to the whole section. I think there ought to be a remedy for some of the evils referred to in this section, but I think it is a proper subject of legislation, and can be remedied by the General Assembly. Mr. PARKS. I will read for information an amendment which I have written since I came in this morning, and which I have shown to the committee: to. The CHAIRMAN. The question is upon se ction one as amended, and it is declared adopted. The question is upo n section two. The Clerk read section two, as fol lows: SEC. 2. "All lands, moneys or other proper ty, donated, granted or received for school, college, seminary or university purposes, and the proceeds thereof, shall be faithfully applied to the objects for which such gifts or grants were made. Section two was agreed to. The CHAIRMAN. The question is upon section three. The Clerk read section three, as follows: - SEC. 3. Neither the General Assembly nor any county, city, town, township, school district, or other public corporation, shall ever make any appropriation, or pay from any public fund whatever, anything in aid of any church or sectariandurpose, or to help support or sustain any school. academy, seminary, college, university or other literary or scientific institution controlled by any church or sectarian denomination whatever; nor shall any grant or donation of land, money, or other personal property, ever be made by the State, or any such public corporation, to any church or for any sectarian purpose. The CHAIRMAN. The question is on the adoption of the third section. Mr. BROWNING.- Mr. Chairman: I would suggest the substitution of the word "denominational," instead of "sectarian." Mr. PARKS. Mr. Chairman: I have no objection to the suggestion, but as the words "church or" were inserted before "sectarian," at the suggestion of the chairman of the committee, two or three months ago, I think the objection is obviated. Mr. BROWNING. Mr. Chairman: I do not object to it as it stands. I make no motion. Section three was agreed to. The CHAIRMAN. The Clerk will read section four. The Clerk read section four, as follows: SEC. 4. No teacher, State, county, township or district school officer shall ever be interested in the sale, proceeds or profits of any book, apparatus or furniture, used or to be -used, in any school in this State, under such penalties as may be provided by the General Assembly. Mr. ENGLISH. Mr. Chairman: It strikes me that this provision is unwise, in one respect, at least. I am not yet prepared to believe that the school books in use in the U~nited States, or in the worlds are so perfect that they cannot be improved, and.I know of no men who are so competent to prepare such books for school purposes as those engaged in teaching. The effect of this section, if adopted) would be to prevent a teacher -from following the business of his life, us soon as he should publish a book prepared by himself for the benefit of :schools. I ~understand that one of the most thoroughly qualified teachers of the United States, and an author of some of the most valuable books used in our common schools, is a teacher to-day in this State. Under this section At would be impossible for him to conduct a school. The provision strikes me Ms unwise, especially in the language here used. ~ But this section shall not be construed to prohi bit a uthor s selling the proceeds of their labor. Mr. FOX. I modifiy my motion by moving to strike out the whole section. Mr. TINCHER. Mr. Chairman: I hope the committee will not strike out this section four now under consideration. I can see virtue in it. If any gentleman is in the book business, it is enough for him to attend to the publication and circulation of his books. If he is a teacher he has, usually, business on hand, if he does his duty as he ought to. I do not believe it a good plan to leave the door open for every man who may write a "Peter Parlecy" and be a teacher or a friend of a superintendent, to go around log-rolling his production into every school. This prohibition is healthy, right, and for the protection of the people. I hope the committee will not change a syllable of this section. We have had enough log-rolling of this kind in Illinois. We have had books changed often enough. 8 I s t i t t c t i s c t I e i t I t t t t a I 0 .a i e MA.Y 7, 1870. 1735 1'73 ("ONTITUTIONAL OOYENTIOX SATURDAY, The conqueror stalks onward, with all children, and earning the wages that are Wherever there is a new teacher it is children, and earning the wages that are paid, are devoting themselves to making money, by skinning them with double prices for school books. These books are often recommended, not because the new books are better than the old, but because they furnish an opportunity of making money. This provision is designed to cure an abuse, and not as a discrimination against a class. Mr. ANTHONY. Mr. Chairman: Would the gentleman from Montgomery [Mr. Rice] be in favor of prohibiting a ju dge from writing a law book while exercising his functions as a judge? Mr. RICE. Mr. Chairman: If the lawyers who practice in his court were bound to purchase his book, upon his recommendation, I should think it a very corrupt practice. But as it is just as they please about it, and he has no power over the matter, that is a very different thing. But these directors have all the power to say what books shall go into the schools, and what books shall not go into the schools, without consulting those who have to pay for them. It is a very different thing, sir. The county superintendent of my county has told me, since we have been in session, that he had been offered twentyfive per cent. for all the school books he could sell in that county. Ought that man to be allowed to exercise his official influ. ence, and make that amount of money out of the people if he were willing to do it? I ask the gentleman from Cook [Mr. Anthony] and the gentleman from Schuyler [Mr. Fox], if they mean any such thing? It is true that these books are charged to the poor parents of these children at twice the sum that they ought to pay, in order that those who sell them may be able to make the margin of profits on the sale. I have heard instances related by men on school boards, men of high character and veracity, that where a board have been divided about accepting these books, the agents for the sale of them would go to some member of the board and say-"We will make it to your interest now to have this book adopted in your schools-we only lack one vote"thus offering to bribe a school officer to recommend a book. Is it an unjust discrimination against that class of persons to remove this temptation out of their way? I do not mean to discriminate against this class. I think that "lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil," is a very wholesome doctrine. Remove this temptation from the many school officers; it will give character to your school system, and secure good school books to our people. If teachers wish to become authors, and have obtained sufficient standing in the art of teaching to make their qualifications and talents demanded as authors m they ought not to be authors and teachers at the same time. Mr. ABBOTT. Mr. Chairman: Ihope this fourth section will not be stricken out. I have lived in various school districts, and have had communication with parties from other districts who compila th ined exceedingly against the continued change of school books. In fact it is almost impossible for poor men who have large families of children, to send them to school and procure the necessary booksm Of education, in consequence of the perpetual changes that take place. The conqueror stalks onward, with all the pride, pomp and circumstance of war, banners flying, shouts rending the air, guns thundering, and marshal music pealing to drown the shrieks of the wounded, and the lamentations for the slain. Not thus the schoolmaster, in his peaceful vocation. He meditates and prepares in secret the plans which are to bless mankind; he slowly gathers around him those who are to further their execution; he quietly, though firmly, advances in his humble path, laboring steadily, but calmly, till he has opened to the light all the recesses of ignorance, and torn up by the roots the weeds of vice. m Iis is a progress not to be compared with anything like a marchbut it leads to a far more brilliant triumph, and to laurels more imperishable than the destroyer of his species, the scourge of the world, ever more. And he then adds: * * * * * Wherever there is a new teacher it is i generally thought that a new set of books ' is needed. I hope and trust that this fourth section may be retained. Mr. CUMMINGS. Mr. Chairman: Believing that this question has been suf: ficiently discussed, I move that the com *mittee do now preceed to vote. Mr. WHITING. I hope that may not be done, Mr. Chairman. Mr. SEDGWICK. Mr. Chairman: I have a substitute which I wish to offer. A Mr. CUMMINGS. I will then with. draw my motion that the committee pro ceed to vote. Mr. SEDGWICK. Mr. Chairman: I think that gent,lemen are partly right and partly wrong, on both sides of this question. My opinion is, that the word "teacher" ought to be stricken out of the place where it appears in this report, but it ought to be inserted afterwards, so as to cut off teachers from being interested , in introducing any books of their own, or , others, or school apparatus, in the profits of which they are concerned, into the schools in which they are teachinug. There is a point where the teacher ought to be limited, but I think it would be un just to say that they ought not to be the authors or publishers of books, because there is no other class as well adapted to publish books for the purposes required, as teachers. For this reason I have prepared this substitute, which I will send to the Clerk's desk. The Clerk read the substitute offered by Mr. Sedgwick, as follows: No State, county, township or district school officer shall ever be interested in the sale, proceeds or profits of any book, appa ratus or furniture used or to be used in any school in this State; and no teacher shall ever be interested in the sale,' proceeds or profits of any book, apparatus or lurniture used or to be used in any school in which such teacher is employed as a teacher. The General As sembly shall provide adequate penalties for the violation of this section. Mr. SEDGWICK. That seems to me to relieve the difficulties of the gentleman from Montgomery [Mr. Rice.] Mr. ENGLISH. With permission of the gentleman, I would ask-supposing a teacher to be the author of a book which is a vast improvement on the books used, is there any propriety in prohibiting his school from having the benefit of the best book? Mr. SEBDGWICK:. It seems to me there is an impropriety in having teach ers in a positionl where they are interested all the time in introducing new books — where they get a part of the proceeds. I believe this getting up b~ooks and of fering to pay teachers for recommending them in schools, is all evil which ought to be cut off. Perhaps, if it could be limited to the point the gentleman mnakes, there might be no objection; but I consider these other points are so objectionable that it would be better to cut off all mere money inducements that might influence the teacher to introduce such books or ap paratus. I therefore submit the sulbsti tute. Mir. ALLjEN, of Crawford. M~r. C~hair man: I think the difficulty under which the patrons of schools have been laboring is a very serious one, and that some pro vision ibr their protection ought to be made. I believe that with a slight -amendment to this section, the difficulty may be provided for. Let the soldier be abroad, if he will; he ean do nothing in this age. There is another personage abroad, a person less imposing, in the eye of some, insignificant. The schoolmaster is abroad, and I trust to him, armed with his primer, against the soldier in full uniform array. These words are the words of one of the foremost statesmen of modern times, and I invoke his opinion against this leg: islationi in this Constitution against the teachers of this State. It is unwise for us to strike at the teachers. I never knew one to get rich by either writing or selling school books, and I think that the Legislature can control the matter anyhow. Mr. RICE. Mr. Chairman: The chairman of this committee [MIr. Parks], has stated I was the author of this section. It is true to this extent, that I introduced a resolution which contained the germ of this section. It is not my language, nor entirely in the shape in which I proposed it. I have no objection to the eulogies the gentleman from Cook [Mr. Anthony], chooses to bestow upon the earnest, enlightened school teacher, inithe honest, faithful performance of his duty of educating the rising generation. I join in any just meed of praise to such a man. The object of this section is not to discriminate against a class, but to cure a palpable, notorious and constantly growing abuse. It is not a discrimination against a class to say that that class when employed at the public expense, by the officers of the law, perform the functions of teacher, for compensation, shall not en ter into the book speculation, and eat up the substance of the parents of those children wholare going'to school at the public expense. It is the constant clamor of poor parents throughout the country districts, in the towns and villages,ihat there comes an order every few months to change books, arnd buy new ones —not that the interests of the school and of education demand it, but that some new book is to be introduced, and the profits divided between the publishers and some school officer, the teacher, the county superin tendent, or the directors, as the case may be. It is notorious that these public officers have become book agents (and I am not able to personate, there is such an im mense body of the m that agents can be formal in every class), who introduce these books for the sole purpose of profitss to be made upon the sale of them. They charge about twice what publishers ask for therm, and the margins go to these agents, who, instead of devoting their time and attention to t~ education of. 1 7'09 6 C'ONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION SATURDAY, MA 7, 180 DEAE A- PRCEIG.13 Pass this section and if a man should happen to be a school director and owned a coal mine, he could not sell his coal for school house fuel unless he resigned his office. He could not invent a new desk or attempt to derive any benefit from it. He could not even invent an inkstandd He could not get up a map whereby teachers could better convey instruction. He would have to stop all enterprise or else resign his position. I say that the whole thing is uncalled for. There may be abuses, but if the people know about these matters themselves, there need be none. I agree in general with the remarks of the gentleman from Montgomery [Mr. Rice] that no man should hold two lucrative offices at the same time. But I do not consider book making to be an office. I think a man has a right to make just such improvements as he can, and as the people of the school district will accept of. I hope the whole section will be stricken out. Mr. WHITING. Mr. Chairman: From all I can hear on this subject, and from my own reflection, I am of opinion that a blank would be much better than the section, and whatever evils there may be complained of, we had better leave the Legislature to remedy. Now, the gentleman from Woodford [Mr. Bayne] has said almost all I wanted to say. I have seen, in Illinois, school houses without windows, and with slab seats, and I have seen those cabins changed for palatial school houses, and though these im provements have been, perhaps, somewhat expensive, certainly they are creditable to the State. These improvements are only a type of the progress made in the schools themselves. It is proposed that a teacher who shall be au author of a book shall be driven from his profession. It would be equally . wrong to say that a superintendent shall not be the author of a book or of any other improvement in school matters. It would be wrong to say that he shall not invent an improvement. The spirit of this is anti-progressive. It is assumed, that in all the common schools no further improvement is necessary. It would be as unwise as it would be for a railroad company, when employing an engineer or any other officer, to declare that he shall not invent any improvement on railroad matters. It would be as wrong to make a law that the lawyers in this Convention shall never write any law book, lest it might, like Gross' statutes, be bought by the State for its officers. iWill we discourage-nay, forbid all invention concerning school matters, by those employed in the field of labor? There may have been sometimes evils in chan~ges of text-books, but in the main these changes have produced ten times as much good as harm. It would be as wrong to enact that books should not be changed, as to pass a law that farmers should not change their plows and reapers. We are often deceived in buying new implements, but would we have a law to forbid their purchase? Whatever emay be the inconvenience 5 produced by changes in sehool books, or misconduct on the part of school officers, the legislation should be left to cure the evil. It would be unwise to, in the organic law, prescribe an iron rule, and especially a rul e so wrong in principl e and antiyprogressive in spirit. Mr. CUMMINGS. Mr. Chairman: I m ove that the Conven tion proceed to v o te. The motion was agreed to. The question being on the amendment offered by Mr. Allen, of Crawford, to insert after the word "book" in line two, the words "except the author thereof," a division was ordered. The Convention divided, when the amendment was agreed to. Mr. UNDERWOOD. I move to amend by inserting after the word "school" in line three the words, "over which he has supervision," so that the author of a book or inventor of an apparatus can sell it all over the country except in the school over which he has supervision. The CHAIRMAN. It can only be entertained by unanimous consent. ["Object," "Object."] The CHAIRMAN. Objection is made. The question is on the substitute offered by the gentleman from DeKalb [Mr. Sedgwick], and the Secretary will read. The Secretary read the substitute offered by Mr. Sedgwick, as follows: No State, county, township or district school officer shall ever be interested in the sale, proceeds or profits of any book, apparatus or furniture used, or to be used in any school in this State; and no teacher shall ever be interested in the sale or proceeds or profits of any book, apparatus or furniture used, or to be used, in any school in which such teacher is employed as a teacher. The General Assembly shall provide adequate penalties for the violation of this section. Mr. FOX. Mr. Chairman: I rise to a point of order. My motion to strike out takes precedence of any other motion, according to the practice of this Convention. The CHAIRMAN. The rule of the Convention is that a motion to strike out shall take precedence, but that rule does not apply in Committee of the Whole, which is governed by parliamentary law which is that every proposition may be amended, before the vote is taken upon striking it out. The question being on the motion of Mr. Fox to strike out section four, it was agreed to. The CHAIRMAN. The question is now upon inserting the substitute offered by the gentleman from DeKalb [Mr. Sedgwick]. ['"Read."] The Clerk read the substitute offered by Mr. Sedgwick, as follows: Sea. 8. No State, county, township or district school officer shall ever be interested in the sale, proceeds or profits of any books, apparatus or furniture used, or to be used, in any school in this State- and no teacher shall ever be interested in the sale or proceeds or profits of any book, apparatus or furni.ture used, or to be used, in any school in which such teacher is employed as a teacher. The General Assembly shall provide adequate penalties for the violation of this section. Mr. KING. Mr. Chairman: I would inquire if the motion of the gentleman froln iFulton [Mr. Cummings], to proceed to a vote, applies to the substitute? The CHAIRMAN. It applies to all the pending questions. The question is upon the substitute. A division was ordered. The committee divided, when, there being nineteen in the affirmative and thirty-four in the negative, the substitute L was not agreed to. Suppose I have a furniture store, happ en to be a school director, and have in my furniture store a valuable kind of desk, that would be very good to put in the school. I offer it for as low a price as it could be purchased elsewhere. I would have no right to sell it under this section. I could sell no school books or anything of the kind. Whit, condition would the free school system of the country be in to day if that principle had prevailed for the last thirty years? Our children w(uld be sitting upon old saw mill slabs with their feet two or three feet from the fl)or, as children did when I wenit to school, in au old log school house. It was the school trustees, superin endents, directors and school teachers who suggested and made the improvements we have seen since that time. I would like to ask gentlemen if these school officers can force anything upon the schoolls, unless they want its If a man wanits a new book adopted, he introduces it into the school, and allows it to be examined. We have often exchanged our old books for new ones. They become old, worn out, and without uniformity, so that a change becomes necessary, and new books are brought in and properly classified.: 435 MAY 7, 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 17317 f.- Now, sir, I do not think that a teacher who may be the author of a valuable book ought to forego either teaching or authorship on account of it. I believe that if a teacher happens to be the author of a valuable book, he ought not to be required to forego the profits of his labor or ttie profits of his teaching; but I feel the force of the remarks that have been made against these agencies for the sale of book,; by teachers and school officers, throu-hout the various counties of the State,. I tlink, if we add after "book," in the second llne, the words "except the author thereof," that this section will then protect communities against the evils complained of. Mr. SEDGWICK. Would we not then let in all offlcers who have booksfrom the State Superintendent, all the way down? Y,r. ALLEN, of Crawford. That may be the effect of it. I was only arguing this question, endeavoring to amend the section so as not to drive the author, who might desire to reap somethid froua the proceeds of his labor, from the schoolroom, if he desires to remain there. I do not think we ought to drive him away. If he be the author of a valuable school bo,k, I know of no rioht that communi ties have to deprive him of the benedt of his authorship, or the profits arising from teaching Mr. PARKS. I would suggest that the exception proposed by the gentleman from Crawfo,.id [Mr. Allen], should come in right after the word "teacher." Mr. BAY.LNE. Mr. Chairman: I desire to see this whole section stricken out. It is nothing more nor less than special I(-gislation, which we have uo riglit to incorporate in the Constitution. I have held various shool offices at differeiit times, for twenty years, and have received but very little profit therefrom. By this section we will debar the State superintendent, county superintendet-its, teachers, directors, trustees, and all school officers, from makii3g any advance in the cause of education. 173 COSIU0OA CO-VETO S A X R A from such offices, nor do I know that they do any good, except to draws their payc I move, therefore, to strike out the section, inasmuch as the law provides for such an office, and the Legislature may have an opportunity, if it sees fit, to abolish or chatge it. Mr. PARKS. Mr. Chairman: I only wish to state the reason why the sixth section was added to this article. We were under the impression, at that time, that the Convention had resolved to have such an officer rs this, and that that officer was provided for somewhere in the Constitution. That, however, turned out to be a mistake. The only additional reason for provid- ing for this officer in the Constitution, is the fact that the committee have provided that the Legislature shall prescribe the qualifications of county superintendent. As it is now by law, these officers are not required to have any qualifications at all, and some of them are not very well qual ified. It was supposed, therefore, that it would be well enough to make a constitutional office, and make it the duty of the Legislature to prescribe at least some qualifications for the county supertendent. But now that the State superintendent has been stricken out of the article on education, and will not appear in it at all, I do not know that we have any particular objection to having this officer also stricken out, though personally, I would rather have the county superintendent a constitutional officer. But, sir, the Legislature will continue this officer whether we do or not. We certainly ought to have the State superin dent in the same article. The article will not be complete without it. Mr. TINCHER. I will withdraw my amendment, and favor striking out the section. Mr. MOORE. Mr. Chairman: I move 1 hat this section be stricken out, not that I have any enmity to the school system or to the superintendents in the different counties, but because they have always been, before this, creatures of the law. Ini the State of New York each township has an officer of this kind. We may want to change our present system, and have a superintendent in each township, or we, may have to take four townships for one superintendent. These officers differ in the different States, and as we advance awe may have new light. We ought not to make this a constitutional office, and in that manner prevent all change for the better. I have no objection to the laws continuing these officers and prescribing their qualifications and duties, but I object to the Constitution doing so. We have too many officers made by this Constitution. We have created one hundred and two new places for young lawyers under the Constitution, which the Legislature cannot get rid of, though we hope they will regulate the pay. We may want to make this officer perform the duties of two or three instead of one. Offices and offic-seeking is the bane of this country. -We should make but few offices by'the Constitution, and let all the others be changed as the wisdom or the wants of the people may dictate. The CHAIRMAN. The question is on the motion of the gentleman irom DeWitt [Mr. Moore] to strike out the section. The CHAIRMAN. The question is Dow upon section five, which the Clerk will read. The Clerk read section five, as folluws: SEC. 5. There shall be a State Superintendent of Public Instruction, who shall be elected at the same time, in the same manner, and for the same term as the Govcrnor, and who shall ho)ld his office until his successor is elected and qualified, and whose powers, duties and compensation shall be regulated by law. Mr. WHEATON. Mr. Chairman: I move to strike out section five, because it has already beern adopted in the executive article word for word. Mr. PARKS. Mr. Chairman: I only wish to say that it is not very material to this committee, and I do not know that it is to anybody, whether that is stricken out or not. It is true, as the gentleman from Kane [Mr. Wheaton] says, that this section has been substantially adopted by t he E xecutive Committee, of which I am a member. I suggested, when we were making the State Superintendent of Public Instru, tion an officer of the executive department, that he did not pr,operlv belong to that department of the State government, and that we had better leave it with the Committee on Education to provide for such an officer in the proper place. My suggestion was not acted upon, however, and when the report of the Executive Committee came into the Convention, I again suggested that it had better be stricken out and put in its proper place in the - rticle on education, but that was not done. I suppose the Committee on Revision and Adjustment, if this is stricken out, will have to revise again the article on the executive department, and put that part of it in the article on education. It will save them a great deal of trouble if this article is adopted here. I intended to ask the committee to change a few words, in order to make it agree with the article on the executive department, so that it would read: There shall be a State Superintendent of Public Instruction, who shall be elected on the Tuesday after the first Monday of November, 1870. Mr. WHEATON. I would suggest to the gentleman that the executive article has already been revised by the Committee on Revision, and contains the provision makirg the State Superintendent of Public Instruction a member of the executive department, providing when he shall be elected and the term of his office. What necessity is there f)r the Convention to adopt the same thing, and compel the Committee on Revision to revise the executiv. article?~ The motion of Mr. Wheaton to strike out section five was agreed to. The CHAIRMAN. The question is upon the sixth section. The Clerk read section six, as follows: SEC. 6. There shall be a county superintendent of schools in each county, whose qualifications, powers, duties, compensation, and time and manner of election, and term of officert shall be perescribed by law. Mr. TINCHER. I move to strike out "shall" and insert "may" in the first line. Mr. ENGLISHt. Mr. Chairman: The office of school commissioner or county superintendent of schools is, as I understand it, not an office in the present Constitution, but one created by law. I have never seen any particular good coming Mr. WHEATON. Mr. Chairman: The school commissioner, as he was recently called, under the law, was one of the moss important of the school officers in my judgment. It is necessary, I think, that he be re co gni ze d ii th e Constitu tiou, for the reason that in the county article we have provided for all manner of county officers-an unnece-ssa,-y thing, it is true, but there is a principle that lLe expression of one thing is the exclu. sion of every other, and if we are to apply this to the construction of Consti tutio1s as well as to the construction of statutes, unless we somewhere provide in the Constitution'for a county superinten dent of schools, by name, it perhaps, may be held to be an absolute exclusion so as not to allow the Legislature to create any such officer. Mr. WASHBURN. Mr. Chairman: I wish to know if the Legislature, under the Constitution, will be permitted to create any other officers whatever, Mr. WIfEATON. It is a question of doubt, Mr. Chairman. They have done so under the old Constitution. The ques tion has never been raised before the courts. It is a question of doubt whether they could or could not, but, undoubted Iv, sir, if we did not mention what should be the county officers, they might create any county officers on the principle that the Legislature has unlimited pow er to legislate on all questions, except so far as the organic law limits them. But when we expressly enumerate what officers there shall be in a county, it might be construed as a limitation bv intendment upon the Legislature to create additional officers. If this office of superintendent of schools is a proper one to have we should recognize it under the Constitution. It does not follow that because we have striken out of this article the section about a State Superintendent, we therefore should strike out the section concerning the county superintendent, because the State Superintendent is a State officer, an executive officer of the State, and under the executive article we express ly provide that he shall be an officer of the executive department, men tion his duties, qualifications, and the term of his office. Having done so, it is unnecessary to provide for the (:ffice again in this article. The counaty super. i'atendent should be recognized in this article or in that upon counties. I admit, as ~suggested by the gentleman from Logan [Mr. Parks], that mnany of these county superintendents are not properly qualified for the performnance of their duties. But wherever in any case a county superintendent is quailfied, he makes the most valuable school officer we have. Mr. WAIT. Mr. Chairman: I think it would he as well to strike oult this section from the fact that there will be manyr counties in this State before long, and there are some now in which it will be difficult for one county superintendent to perform the duties required of him. The County of Cook, for instance, may be one. One superintendent could do but,ivery little in that county toward performing the duties now required of such officers.s And it may appear in the future, that it will be better to have a county superintendent or some officere in his place, for a less nsumber of inhaoitants than a county. Some counties may requ~'re three, some I f I s t t f t 8 I s I e e t 8 t 1738 CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION SATURDAY, MAY 7, 1870. DEBATES AXD P~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~O~~~i~~ED1NGS. 1739~~~~~~~~~~ ting any such office. I miairnta.n that an r,tffirmation in the Co)nstitution that there shall be such and such offices is, by no means, a negation that there may be other or different offices. The present system of county superintendents rests wholly upon an act of the General Assembly-so with the office of State Superintendent, and yet I apprehend that our present Constitution has such affirmations in it that there shall be such and such other offices. There can be no fear, I apprehe hend, that the Legislature will not have power to perpetuate, if desirable, the present system of county superintend A eiits. But it is argued that these are very important and valuable officers. I appre hend that this subject is open for debate. There is quite a difference of opinion upon that question among gentlemen on this floor. It is claimed, in some counties, that they are valuable, while in others, they are worth nothing but to draw their salaries. While the people of the State of Illinois are certainly in favor otf a system of public education, of free schools, there is no doubt that thiere is a general dissatisfaction with the present organization of the public school system. Indeed, I believe the State Superintendent has for several years urged quite a different system, or an entire reform in the present system, and I believe that at no distant day, the Legislature will reform the present system, for, to sav the least of it, it is very complex, clumsy and cumbrous. It has too much machinery about it. If it is desired or should become desirable that the present system shall be reformed, shall we perpetuate an ()ffice that may not be at all necessary, but may be an absolute obstruction in the way of that reformation? I hope this Convention will not continue to perpetuate an offi!-,e which may become wholly useless and undesirable, but leave this question as it has heretofore stood-entirely within the control of the General Assembly. Mr. WHITING. Mr. Chairman: It is rather due to myself perhaps to explain my position on this question. The gen-tc tleman from Brown [Mr. Vandeventer], I believe, moved to include the county superintendent in, the county article a while ago, and I think I voted against Stat Suerinendnt; nd f wearethe motion. I wish now to vote to sus- poc oaypol. progessig w arecerainl prgresingtain this section, and shall state the reason M.Cara,yuwl eebrta in the rong diection.I then thought it might in time beealintessinpttosigra Whenwe bolsh his ffie o contythought quite necessary in large counties nmes rmaloe h tt,cm suprinendnt,we henplae orsevesto have two, and that the naming of oneheeasigtaaclsesmlrtth in ucha psiton hatevey cunt inwould be to exclude any more. oeIhv ett h ek hudb the tat wil hve o coe t th Leis- Now the truth is that schools are goodplcdithCosiuin latre nd eg bil oganzin orconor poor, very much as they have or do Iofeemotothspeiinmy stiutig cunt sueritenent, a wenot have thorough supervision. It is a sl,adte eerfre oteCm have ow, nd hae ha all he tme. axim that the school is what the teach-mteonEuain Thtcmite Why isist n dong tht? Wh noters make it, and to have good teachers it frraosbte nw otesle recgnie te ofic i th Costiutin?is necessary to secure good examiningthntmehaeefan4frmsyn I thnk o getlean i prpare toofficers.. How are we to have them, un- ayhn ntesbet aen assin a oodreasn fr dipening ithless wve have an officere for that purpose? qure ihte.Thyaehnrbe thes offces.We ave ecogizedthe To strike out this officer altogether hg-iddgnlmn aeatne Stat Suerinendnt;thenwhynotwould be a serious stab to the common felnfothmpatclrytecar can itdow tothecouty upeintnd-school system. He is the organ of com-mnwihwo Ihaebelogac ents eected y the eople?munication between the State Superin. uitd [here the hammer fell.]dent and the several districts; he collects Bt i,Iocp oiinvr ifr Mr. WAHBURN. Mr.Chairan: Ithe necessary statistics. If we now strikeen frm toegnlmn Ths am i faor f srikng ut h~ssecionout this section, it will be giving thepeiinweesntom foresnI (secionsix, ad Ithik aroo resonweight of this body against that office. cno con o.Invrakdt canbe ive fo st~kig i ou, te oin-It wilt be regarded throughout the Statehaetesettmethycmtom ion f te gntlman romJerey Mr.as a sign that this body are against the fo l at fteSae King tothecontarynotithsandng. school system. It will surprise and alarm Ihl htwe ag n epca I se n frcein heargmen tat hethe friends of common schools. I wish becaso iies e n oe e Legslaurewil beproibied romcr~ to say to those gentlemen who complain' iinu,i sordt orciets af these wiliersfu in their counties as use less, that a poor scho(.ol, superintendent is perhaps nea,rly useless. [Here the harndiler f(,,I.] Mr. WHITING. Mr. Chairnman: wish simply to add that a poor su~periutendent is generally the fault of the people -themsel ves. Mr. WAGNER.,Mr. Chairmaan; I move wve proceed to vote. The motion was agreed to. The, CHAIRMIAN. The question is on the motion to strike out the sixth section. A division was ordered. The committee divided, when, there being twveity-nine in the affirmative and twenty-one in the negative, the motion to strike out was agreed to. BIBLE IN COUMON SCIIOOLS. Mr. BAYNE. Mr. Chairman: I offer the following additional section. The Clerk read the additional section offered by Mr. Bayne, as follows: The General Assembly shall pass such laws as will effectually prevent school officers, or any person or persons having control of the common schools of the State, from excluding the bible from said schools. Mr. BAYNE. Mr. Chairman: It would seem at first, blush that it would be unnecessary for me to add anything in .advocacy of this measure, living as we do in this age of the world, this nineteenth century, with the great American Bi ble society in our country, with Bible societies ill all our counties, having organizationls in almost every township, and havirlg for their purpose th-e dissemination of the Bible am~ong the destitute, of our own and other lauds. It -would at first blush, I sav, seem unnecessary for me to say anything on this subject. But we have been here a 1ODg time and have legislated on various su'bieets- almost every. subject that the fruitful minds of member s could invent. We have discussed these questions mlany days. Many of th-erm had never been thought of by. the people, and probably never would have been had we not nmet in Convention. We have proceeded on the assumlption that well paid officerss and plenty of them an~d an overflowing treasury, Ore all that is necessary to the perpetuity of our in. stitutions, forgetting that "4righteousness alone exalteth a nation, whilst sin is a re i 8 MAY 7, 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1-739 two, some only one. It is an arbitrary rule to say that a county slia.11 have one, only, of these very useful officers. I am in favor of education always, for I believe that the institutions of a republican g,)verument are founded upon the intelligence of the people, and that without education no republican government can be perpetuated. But, will it .not be better to strike this section out, and leave it with the Geiieral Assembly to make such provisions in regard to county superintendents as the interests of education may require from time to time? With this view. of the subject, I am in favor of striking out the sixth section. Mr. KING. Mr. Chairman: Section five was stricken out, because the substance of it was provided for in another section of this article. If that bad not been the fact, I do not think that this committee would ever have stricken it out. We did not abolish the office of State Superintendent, at all, b so strikiDg out. After that is done, gentlemen get up here and move to strike out section six, which provides for a county superintendent. In my estimation, there is not an officer in the State of Illinois of more importance to the people than the county superintendent. It is so in my coutity, We have had the good luck of having good county superiiitendents-men who have gone round and organized schools throughout that county, superintended those schools, had an interest in them, in organizing them and managing them, and who have done so for the nominal sum of about $300 to $500. When gentlemen rise on this floor and say that the office should be abolished, aiid leave the matter to the Legislature, it amounts to this-that the Legislature will -neve. create, in my opinion, an office not authorized by this Constitution. If we strike this section out, and do not recognize a county superintendent, the legislative bodies that are hereafter to assemble will not recognize the office either, and we will have no county superintendents in our counties. This seems to me to be going back.'W e claim to be progressing but if this is progressing I cannot see it. As long as I have been in this or any other State, we. have had county superintendents of schools, and a 174 CO-1 TOA O~ETO AUDY excluded from our schools. That is all I ask. Is that too much? I think not. Sir, I do not want to have the case come up in this State as it did in Cincinnati the past winter. In that city some persons-I will not call them by name, because there nlay have been various sects who were engaged in the effort-de barred that book from the schools. The case was taken into the courts, and it was there decided that, in order to keep Cin permanency the institutions of the State of Ohio, that book could not be ruled out. That question is now carried to the supreme court. What the final de cision will be I cannot tell; but I hold that it is the duty of every man who be lieves in free institutions, or believes in free speech, or believesin religion of anyv kind whatever-I do not care what it is to see that no denomination shall monop olize the whole of the school fund of the people, or force the Bible from the schools. Now, we have provided that the school fund shall not be parcelled out to any de nomination. Why did we do that? For fear that some religious denoiniation would get the control of the school fund, ats is the case in New York, where o-ne denomination now has four-fifths of the wholeofit. I am as much opposed to the union of the church and state as any other man, and I know of no other way to keep church and state apart than to let the Bible have free course to run and be glorified. Let every man reed it, read it where he pleases and when he pleases, and read it with any other book that he pleases. I hold that the permanency of our free institutions depends upon this. I want to say a few words about the origin of our government. How does it happen that we have a- free government to-day, that we have free speech, that I can raise my voice in this hall to defend this bible? It is because our forefathers were trampled upon and burnt at the stake, were driven from hill-top to hill top, and a" last were c omp elled to come across the ocean to this wilderness world of America, among howling wild beasts and savages, where they might be permit ted to read that bible untrammeled and unfettered, where they might practice a religion from which no man could com pel them to abstain. Upon that princip le our government has raised its free insti tutions, free bibles, free men, and free schools. We are preparing now for a free school system, and I am not in favor of any denomination saying to my child, or to your child, or to any other man's child, "You shall not read the bible in the com mon school," but I want this Constitution so framed that no man, or set of men, or sect, can prevent its reading where it is desired. As I said before, I believe that the per manency of our free institutions depends upon the position we take upon the bible. Europe is pouring her population in up en us by the thousands every year. Chi na is pouring her population in upon us. sWe ourselves have liberated four millions of persons who are/comparatively igno. rant, and turned them loose upon society. This vast influx of population know but little about the fundamental principle either of civil government or Christian ity. With that amount of ignorance and superstition coming in upon us, I say it is well for every American freeman to look petitions, and give them proper direction and consideration. They should not be squelched in a committee, and never heard of again. I have no political aspirations, and nothing to lose or gain in that direction, but I cannot afford to stultify myself before these people who have confided these petitions to me, by refusing to present them fearlessly. I have been told by members of this Convention that I had better not call the matter up. They said: "You will call out an endless discussion. Why, such members as the gentleman from St. Clair [Mr. Snyder] will oppose you if you introduce your, resolution." N~'ow, the gentleman from St Clair is a man subject to like passionas as I am. He has his opinion; Ihave mine. He has a perfect right to think and speak what he pleases. on this subject, and I claim the same privilege. Every man has an equal right to advance his opinion on this floor with any other man. I am not afraid of discussion. I am in favor of free discussion in a free country. And I say, sir, that we have no right to quash these petitions in committee and not let them come before the Convention and the public at all. Now, I want to say to the members of t'his Cbnvention, that this class of people who sent ill those petitions must not be ignored. They have the right to be heard. I bold, sir, that the Christian men of the State hold the balance of power to day, and if we, by our action to day, say to them that their petitions and their desires are not even worthyof consideration in this body, we will array them against the Constitution, and for this, if for no other reason, we ought to give them a decent respect, and listen to their petitions. I I do not ask gentlemen to vote for this section-they have the right to vote for or against ii, just as they pleasel-but as I ~sai' before, I think it is my duty to of fer it and defend it, for I believe that the Bible is the only rule of life for Chris tian men, as they believe and understand it. w well to the principl e upon wh ich civil g overnmen t r ests. [Here the h amme r fell.] ["Go on;;" "go on."] Mr. BAYNE. I will go a little further. I want gentlemen to understand that I have not occupied a great deal of time in the Convention this winter, speech making. Now, I hold that the Bible is the only book now extant in the world by which man can have any definite idea of his ori gin or of his creation. There is no other [ book now extant in the world that gives - him this idea. There we learn the creaL tion and origin of man. There we learn that God in six days made the earth, and [ that God is a spirit possessed of infinite knowledge, wisdom and power, and that He holds men responsible not only indi vidually but in a national capacity. We L learn from it what man is, and his origin. a The philosophers of ithe old world spent their lives and intelligence trying to solve the question from whence man came and whither he was tending, wheth er he was possessed of an immortal soul or not, whether he went down as the beasts that perish, or whether his soul went to some other place. It is revealed to us in this book that God made man, breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and man became a living soul, that he is dependent upon God for his being, that he is accountable to that Being who , gives him all the things that he needs. And it is the duty of every man to look well to this. The Bible is a good code of morals. Even the man who denies that it is a book of inspiration, admits that if a man lives up to the moral principles laid down in that book, he would be, at least, a good citizen. If a man is fond of literature, let him compare the book of Job, the book of Isaiah, the songs of Solomon, and many other books of theBible, with the works of the great authors of modern times, and he will fild that they compare favorably with them. For oratory, plain teaching, and sound principle, I refer to Christ's sermon on the mount, as being one of the best productions in the world. Now, as I am tiring you, I will say but little more on the subject, but I want to call the attention, especially, to what I ask in the resolution. I do not want the Bible forced upon the public schools. I do rot think that would be right. But I want the matter so fixedl that no man or combination of men, shall be permitted to exclude it. I am just as much opposed to men's monopolizing religion by law, as I am to their monopolizing the Bible by excluding it from the schools. Mr. TINCHER. Mr. Chairman: I must object to the gentleman proceeding any further. I am willing to vote witha him, but I moust interrupt his remarks. Mr. WELLS. Sir. Chairman: I rise to a point of order. The gen,tleman from Woodford [Mr. Balyne] cannot be inter. rupted after he has obtained the u uani. rncus consent of the committee to pro ceed. The CHIAIRM1AN. The gentleman front Woodford [Mir. Baynve] is entitled to the floor till the ex(pirationl of his five minutes, and it is out of order to inter rupt him. Mr. BAYNE. MJr. Chairman: If the reverend gentleman from Vermilion [Mr. Ti~ncher] is opposed to Farther discussion [Here the hammer fell]. L"Go on."] Mr. SNYDER. Mr. Chairman: The gentleman has madeno shot-gun speeches here. He has been exceedingly fair, and I hope that he may be permitted togo on. Mr. BAYNE. Mr. Chairman: I think I will go on. As chairman of the comr nmittee that reported this section, I believe it is my privilege to lay this matter before the Convention. [Laughter]. It was not referred to any committee, but I gave notice that I would refer to it when the proper time came. I must now make a little argument to show why I introduced this —and I want the members of this Convention to understand that I am not asking to force the Bible into the common schools of the State. All that I ask is, that the schl,ol officers of this State shall not force that book out of the schools. I want it to stand upon its merits. I want it to have the same chance to come into schools that any other book has. I want it to have the same chance in our schools that.2Esop's Fables have, Dilworth's Sipelling Book, Wilson's Readers, or any -.ther book- I do not want the Bible s"ingled out from all other books and be l'i-40 CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION SATURDAY, MAY 7,1870. DEBATES AND PROOEEDIGS. 1741 light illuminates the conscience. It cre ates and sustains the doctrine of human rights. It is as intimately connected with the growth and destiny of nations as with the development of individual character and happiness. "For more than a th )u sand years," says Coleridge, "the Bible, collectively taken, has gone hand in hand with civilization, science and law." This being true, shall there be a spot in this Christian land from which the word of God, the source of civilization and all our valued institutions shall be excluded by law? I answer no! Never! The policy that is growing weak in Europe, seeks renewed strength in our soil, and boasts of its future triumphs here. Said a Romish priest, when commcnting upon the losses of the Romish church in Italy: "We can affk)rd to let the rags of Italy go into the hands of Garibaldi, when we are taking possession of the United States." An Italian paper says: "The Roman court expects to be able to control the American repul)blic." At a meeting of Roman Catholics, held in New York last year, and representing all parts of the country, one of the speakers, exulting over what had been gained by them through appropriations from the New York Legislature, said, "this is the little finger, and we must preserve it till we get the whole hand." That hand, I bQlieve, they never will get, unless it is palsied by apathy. If our people are willing to yield, step by step, to the encroachments of that system whose word is death to all human freedom; whose breath withers human happiness, End whose anathemas fall upon all who do not yield to its authority; if Americans cannot appreciate the institutions under which they live, or see at what a cost of blood and treasure and heroic daring they were purchased; if boards of education, like that of Cincinnati, are ready to vote the precious Bible out of the public schools, and forbid the use of religious books and the singing of sacred songs in the schools-what is this but the beginning of national suicide? Shame upon Cincinnati, to be the first place upon American soil to have this dishoncr! What a creed for the United States of America-blank atheism! If members of this Convention, if protestant ministers, and others, are ready, at the first notes of alarm, to give up the Bible, then the hand that the foe is striving to get may be palsied: it may lose its vitality and become withered and dead. Then the Papacy will grasp it, and the American republic become the grave of liberty. Then the dead may come from Rome to bury the dead. But if that hand is nourished by divine truth, sustained by blood that flows from the heart of patriotism —if it retains a spark o f the energy and force possessed by those who gained for us our national inheritance-it will not only uphold our institutions,but will defeat every attempt, from whatever source it may come, to destroy the republic. Suppose that the Bible is excluded from the schools for the blind, which are supported by the State. Here are gathered say, one hundred blind children, who, day by day, read their lessons by tracing the raised letters with their fingers. They become acquainted with geography, philosophy and portions of history; but from the beginning to the end of the year, their fingers never light upon the word Viewing these youths as individual members of society, or as destined to become citizens of t he S tate, orin regarding the m in a ny of the.relations of life, they need the teachings of God's word paramount to all other teachings. To deny this is to treat the divine command with contempt and to bid defiance to the Almighty. God formed our nation a3 truly as he formed the kingdom of Israel. And the language that He addressed to His ancient people through His servant Moses, He addressed to us-"behold I have taught you statues and judgments." Deut. 4, 6. - "Keep, therefore, and do them, for this is your wisdom and understanding in the sight of the nations which shall hear all these statutes, and say,'surely this great nation is a wise and understanding people.' Only take heed to thyself, and keep thy souls diligently, lest thou forget the things which thine eyes have seen, and lest they depart from thy heart all the days of thy life; but teach them thy sons and thy sons' sons. And I will make them hear my words, that they may learn to fear me all the days that they may be upon the earth, and that they may teach them their children." Can any one prove that these commands have a local application or have been abrogated? The Bible is the book for all nations-for all the world. Its principles constitute the basis of every free, j ust and prosperous government. Its 436 * Bible. They never trace out the words, "believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved;" never read the sub lime and stirring declaration, "eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither hath it entered into the heart of man to conceive the things which God hath prepared for them that love Him." Would it not be the greatest cruelty to add to the dark ness that surrounds this unfortunate class the deeper mneral darkness produced by the exclusion of God's blessed word? Are the consciences of a class -of our citizens violated by allowing a stream of light from God's mercy seat to enter their souls, and cheer them in their dark pilgrimage through this world? Take also the institutions for the deaf and dumb. They have been established in almost every State in the Unioni, at the public expense, and come under the same general law that governs our common schools. Who, with one spark of humanity in his soul, with the smallest possible amount of interest in the welfare of others, would advance the idea that the two hundred and fifty who compose this class of persons at Jacksonville, should be deprived of religious instruction? To those who visit these institutions one of the most interesting features is the progress that the pupils make in a knowledge of the Scriptures, and their promptness in replying to questions of a religious nature. "Who made the world?" was one of the questions proposed to a little deaf and dumb boy, in one of these institutions. Without an inistant's delay, he took the chalk and rapidly wrote on the blackboard this answer, "In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth." "Why did Jesus come into the world?" was the next question. With a smile of gratitude the little fellow wrote in reply: "This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Jesus Christ came into the world to save sinners." T:he astonished visitors, desirous of testing the religious attainments of the pupil to the utmost, ventured at length to ask, "Why were you born deaf and dumb, when we are allowed to both hear and speak?" With that sweet and mos{t touching expression of meek resignation on the face of the boy, the chalk replied, "Even so, Father, for so it seemeth good in Thy sight." Now, shall the Bible be removed from such a school, on the ground that it is a sectarian book? Shall it be banished, to meet the conscientious scruples of a class of menl, who, ever since thle invention of printing, have been the bitter and urncompromising foe of the Bible? Judge Story, in commenting upon the constitution, declares that "Christianity is part of the comnmonl law." Webster says: "There is nothing we look upo with more certainty than this principles that Christianity is the law of the land." judge Duncan, of Pennsylvania., says: " Christianity is and always has been part of the common law." In the Constitutional Convention of New York, such men as Chancellor:Kent, Chief Justice Spencer, Rulfus IKing and Martin Van Buren, agreed that, "C~hristian religion founded on the Bible, was engrafted upon the law and entitled to protection as the basis of our morals and the strength of our government." Can we, then, in education, ignore our lifeblood and retain political health, Begs lect our moral Mentor and retain virtue, I MAY 1, 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDI.NGS. 1741 of this B ble matter upon this floor, I will yield cheerfully. [Lau-ahterl. Mr. GAMBLE. Mr. Chairman: The question before this Convention to-day is one of great moment and deep solemnity to every American citizen. It relates to our individual interests and hopes, touches the heart of our national life, enters into the future of our great republic, and bears upon every interest, social and religious that is embodied in American success. We should therefore approach it under a sense of our solemn obligations to God; we should discuss it as patriots and Christians, bound to give to our country and religion every help that will uphold the one and perpetuate the other. The attack upon our pablic schools has various phases, all of which aim at the same result-the destruction of the system created by our fathers, and cherished by their descendants. The effort that is being made to exclude the bible from our schools has a deeper purpose. This matter is no secret. It is open to all our citizens-yes, to all the world. Suppose we consent for any reason whatever to have the Bible removed from the schools and institutions supported by the State, how do we stand related to the Supreme Being whom, we believe to be the author of this book? I ask this ques. tion as an American citizen. I ask it believi,ug that a ination'is just as dependent for its stability and prosperity upon God as a Christian church is. I ask it with the irs ired words of God's book sounding in my ears, "For the nation and- kingdom that will not serve thee shall perish; yea, those nations shall be utterly wasted." Will it be serving God to remove from nine hundred and eight thousand of our youth in the great State of Illinois, the moral light and instructions of this holy word? This measure He must approve or disapprove, or be indifferent to. He has said through His Son: "Blessed are they that hear the word of God and keep CONSTITUTIONAL ()OYETION SATTYRDAY, find Justice, pictured as a blinded daughter of Erin, distributing the school money from public funds. At her right the rotund priest laughs over his showering bags of gold, in which he stands knee deep; while at her left the sorrowful representatives of our public schools as they have been, draw only blanks and empty bags. Lastly, we have the wild chaotic jumble of what our public schools may be in the future. The African has the little Chinaman by the queue-the'Paddy' reviles the scornful Jew. The High Churchman engages the Methodist in close combat. Every child is fighting, and the street is lined with signs of sectarian schools-a school for every nationality and every creed. Only the irreligious fanaticism that spurned and crucified Christ, can oppose or plot against the ascendency of Christianity over public opinion, education and law. Developing powers, forming character and habits, are higher ends of education than mere increase of knowledge. Education is the process of molding them Conducting that process in the absence of religious ideas, appeals and sanctions so essential to the symmetry and expressions of true manhood, is like pouring metal into a defective mold; in hardening, the casting must retain that defective type. No supplementary process can remedy it; any future expressinm or beauty must be represented in the mold or die, when the plastic character is subject to it. Education is the coinage of national character. Shall the die remain blank, or bear the cold, distrustful expression of scepticism and atheism, or the divine image of faith and virtue? Some few months ago, I read the statement in one of the Chicago papers, that "one of the greatest wonders of the world is, that the continent is now girdled with an iron girdle." But a more glorious wonder still, is that not only the great State of Illinois-not only the continent -but the whole world, is now girdled with a girdle of bibles. Our forefathers built this nation upon the bible-this sacred volume they placed in the foundation of every American institution. If it was necessary then, it is necessary now, for us to secure to future generations this sure foundation, '-whereon, if a man build, he shall have eternal life." Therefore, Mr. Chairman, I trust the section will be adopted, and secure to our children, and our children's children, the glorious headlight of God's eternal truth, which is of as much imporltance to us as was the star that hung over Bethlehem. Mr. SNYDER. Mr. Chairman: I desire to present the other side of the question. An attempt is here made to insert in the organic law of this State, a provision which will, really, enforce the reading of the Bible in the public schoolsto compel the children of all persons, regardless of what the religious opinions, conscientious scruples or desires of those persons may be, to listen to and have instilled into them the contents of that book. Which version of the Bible do those who favor this movement propose to use? That of King James I, of course. We all know, and will readily acknowledge, that there are serious and deep-rooted objection entertained to this translation, by at least two-thirds of all the Christians in the world-men who are as sincere in their belief in, and as devoted to, the Christian religion, as any in existence. Are their objections well grounded-or are they at least plausible? dishonor our religious teacher and continue religious? Shall the republic cast away the strong rod and beautiful staff on which she has leaned while coming up out of political b ondag e; shall she discard the pillar of cloud by day and pillar of fire by night, which have guided her march through the wilderness of political experiments and uncertainties, and grope in darkness or seek the precedents of unsuccessful and extinct republics? The hasty, ill-advised actions of school boards or scheming political parties, or intriguing religionists, to set aside the common law of the country, must tend to eternal anarchy. [Here the hammer fell.] ["Go on," "go on."] Mr. ELLIS. I object. Mr. GAMBLE. Up to this I have not occupied a moment's time while I have been here, while others have been continually speaking. Mr. ELLIS. Mr. Chairman: I object. I am not willing that gentlemen shall trespass upon the time of this Con vention for the purpose of making buncombe speeches, based upon a subject so sacred as the Bible and the Christian re ligion. I object, sir. Mr. WENDLING. I think the gentleman should have the privilege of printing his remarks; but I hope he will be allowed to proceed. Mr. ANDERSON. I move to suspend the rules that the gentleman may be permitted to go on with his remarks. Mr. PARKS. This gentleman has never before made a speech in this Convention. The- CHAIRMAN. The gentleman can proceed, while no objection is made. Mr. GAMBLE. What is this but the beginning of national suicide? Upon these points we can best judge from the Roman catholic writers themselves, and from their course, where they have full power to enforce their views. Bishop O'Connor, of Pittsburg, says Religious liberty is merely endured until the opposite can be carried into effect without peril to the catholic world. The archbishop of St. Louis said: If the Catholics ever gain, which they surely will, an immense numerical majority, religious freedom in this country will be at an end. Father Hecker, of New York, says: In fifteen years we (the catholics) will take this country and build our institutions over the graves of protestantism. In Garpers' Weekly, dated Puebla, Mexico, January 1st, 1870, a writer says: A mob had attacked a protestant congregation during service. The rioters were led by an ex-imperialist and urged on by the priest. A number of persons were fatally injured. An endeavor was made to burn the protestants, using the Holy Bible for fuel. Notice that this does not occur in the dark ages, but in December, 1869;* not ina ~Europe} but in North America. It also indicates progress rather than decline in the spirit of persecution. I have never heard of bibles being used as feuel before to burn protestants. No better illulstration can be given of the shoals towards which we are tending than reference to the veryr happy wood cut in the same paper of a few weeks since: There we have, first a ring of happy chil and "'union forms their strength." Next we g ~. p I 8 c r e 1 t s i I t t t e s 8 CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION STUP.DAY) 1742 In order to ascertain whether the Catholic, Greek, Armenian, Alaroinite and other Christians should be respected in their dislike to the version in question, let us examine into the origin of the KiDg James Bible, and the circumstances attndidg its origin, progress and completion. Forty men were employed to perform this work. Learned men and scholars they undoubtedly were, but, among them all, there was not one who had ever studied the Hebrew language, or who understood a single word or syllable of it. There were, during the time that this translation was being made, but two Hebrew scholars -in Great Britain-Broughton and L,vely. Ihe former died before the work was commenced, and the latter was never em. ployed, and of course, took no part whatever in it. - This book then, which men so arrogantly and dogmatically pronounce the pure, perfect and immaculate word of Almighty God, and which they are so ready and so determined to force upon the children of all men of all shades of religiou,,-Iopinion, contrary to the will,and most conscientious belief of hundreds of thousands whose hard-earined taxes contribute to the support of the schools, was the work of thi.rty-nine individuals, not one of whom had the least acquaintance with the language in which much the greater part of it-the old testamentwas originally written. This is the true and indisputable histo.ry of KiDg James' version of the Bible, which is to be forced, regardless of consequences, and the sacerd rights of a vast number of the citizens of the State, upon our public schools. About a,' huiadred years before the birth of Jesus Christ, the old Hebrew character, in which the old testament was originally written, and which ever since that time has been obsolete, was abandoned for the present Jewish alphabet. From the'for. mer into the latter the Bible of course was re-written and transferred. From that the old portion of it passed into the vulgate and the Septuagint, and from these again it was translated into the ver. sion in u uestiOD, so, th at mu ch the greater part of this book which is to teach by the strong arm of the law-by forcewhether we will or no the children of all MAY 1870. DEBATES AXI) 1'ROCEEDIXGS. 1743 conduct is your boasted right of private judgment, and all other men have it, in every respect, quite as fully as you have, and are as much entitled to exercise it up on you as you are to exercise it upon them. "Freedom of conscience," said Oliver Cromwell, "is a natural right those who have it, must accord it to others, else it cannot exist." The great Protector, in all his wisdom, never gave utterance to a mightier or more important truth. The immortal author of the Areopagitica and Paradise Lost, said: "Recollect that thou thyself cannot be free, unless we are so; for it is fitly so provided in the nature of things, that he who conquers another's liberty, in the very act loses his own. He becomes, and justly, the foremost slave." Most gravely and wisely said. Our rights are the same and equal. Let it always be borne in mind, that whoever strikes down my rights, in that very act destroys his own. It is true that the oppressor may not suffer the penalty which hi,3 act deserves, but all that saves him therefrom, is the simple barrier of brute force, which any one else at any moment may wield as readily and ruth lessly as he does. I have frequently wondered how pure, gentle, persuasive, non-resistent christian ity has become so perverted as to be an engine of force and oppression. Jesus commanded his followers to go forth and preach the gospel, not to pound and beat and force it into men, by legal enactment or otherwise; to allure and not to drive them to it-to gently persuade and con vince them, not to inflict or fasten it upon them. Nothing can be more at variance with the spirit of pure christianity than coercion or persecution; and what candid, unprejudiced man can for a moment doubt that if Christ were upon earth today, he would pronounce them the devil's work? "Jesuit" is, with our protestant friends, a term synonymous with all that is dishonest, corrupt aud abhorrent; and yet what beautiful lessons of Christian conduct can belearned from even a jesuit, unexpected as it may be to them. When St. Francis Xavier, bound for his wonderful missionary labors in the East Indies, embarked on a Portuguese ship, he found all the sailors gambling with cards. A single word from him to the commander of the vessel, would have caused a forcible suppression of the practice, but knowing, like the sensible, gentle and good man he was, that it would not only be of no benefit to the men, but on the contrary, would so anger and alienate them, that they could never be approached by him, he chose another and a better course. He quietly and kindly approached them, and asked and received permission to enter into their play. He soon entered into conversation with them, and so won upon their affections that they quickly became very much attached to him. An explanation of theevil consequences of their course, which they eagerly lis - tened to, soon followed, and long before the voyage was completed they had thrown their cards overboard and forever ceased their gaming. It is no wonder that such a man should have succeeded in converting to his faith a million of human beings in those heathen lands where his short but brilliant life was devotedly spent. Nor can right minded men be surprised that his protestant admirer, Mr. t i t DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. MAY 1, 1870. 1743 Translation from one language into another, is at least an exceedingly deli cate undertakiia-. It is not in the power of fallible man, to accomplish such work with unerring perfection. It is utterly impossible to discover and preserve each delicate shade of meaning of words, upon any one of which the whole direction, end and purport of a verse, a passage, a chapter or even a book may depend. One single piece of awkwardness, one mis apprehension of the force or bearing of a word, may mar or destroy the most im portant truth, in the whole text, to say nothing of the interpolations and per versions that have been made by design ing men, in the heat of controversy, and with the design to pervert what was written to the support of a favorite idea, ' he enforcing of a dogmatic assertion, or for a sinister and dishonest purpose. We should, then, at least, hesitate and abate something of that confidence we have in ourselves, before we determine to enforce upon all any particular version of the Bible, or any other book. We are dealing, as I have said before, with the highest possible truths that can concern man upon this earth, and the more grave the consequences which may follow, the more reluctant should we be to invoke the law to assist us to enforce our own peculiar views upon our fellowmen. Has it ever struck our Protestant fellow-citizens, who are the authors of this movement, what the consequences would be, if their position and that of our catholic countrymen were reversed, and if Douay, instead of the KiDg Jam-es version of the Bible, were sought to be enforced by law upon the public schools of this State-if their hard earned means were wrested from them by the tax-gath - erer in order that the doctrines of a hostile church and what the - consider the most pernicious of errors, were about to be impressed: forever upon the young and tender minds of their darling children? And yet, a catholic, in this free country of ours, is as good and as worthy, in every respect, and his rights are as many, as sacred, and as complete as their own. He has, no one can for a moment dispute, the same right to enforce his peculiar ideas and views upon them that they have to enforce their's upon him. Stephens, should have exclaimed,,that this man possessed more of the apostolic fervor than any one who has lived upon this earth since the days of St. Paul." What a splendid contrast there is be tween the conduct of St. Francis and that of the Spanish inquisition with its horror.- of racks and tortures and burn ings, and that of the Scotch presbyteri ans, who for two hundred years, punished men with fire, imprisonment and the stocks, for absenting themselves from church, or that of the established church of EDgland, which, in the time of Charles I, visited a like offense with the pillory and transportation to the penal colonies. The disposition so prevalent in our country to forcibly interfere with the opinions, conduct and practices of the citizen, never has, never will, and never can, resalt in any good. It neither convinces nor changes any one, but always produces exasperation and hatred on the part of those interfered with, and if successful, only brii3gs about sullen submission or hypocrisy and deceit. Truth requires no such aid, and if any doctrine or creed should thus lean to the devil for help-should resort - to such execrable support in order that it may exist-it is not possessed of the elements of genuine Christianity; for if there is one thing above all others, that the pure doctrines taught by Jesus Christ, abhor, it is the assistance of force. Coercion soils the garments of Christianity and bespatters them with filth and blood. Without its aid, but simply by gentleness and persuasion and good example, in the face of a miohty hostile empire, which governed almost all of the knows world, it established its great kingdom upon the earth. Wherever force has been invoked to its assistance, or it has contracted an illicit union with government and humaii law, a bastard religion, or rather semblance of religion, has resulted, which has been a monster upon earth, and a curse to humanity. If your version of the Bible really contains the great truths that of all things most concern man, you need have no fear that they will run their way to the favor of your fellow beings, for "truth is mighty and will prevail." In order that its precepts may succeed, the minds of men must be prepared by gentleness, by_kindness and by persuasion and excellence for their rece tion-must 1744 COSTITUTIOAL COYENTIO TURI)AY the term-free to the children of each man-free from sectarian divisions and narrowness-free from religious prejudices or rivalries of all kinds, where the intellect can be educated in a broad and liberal manner, and by means of which our people, as they become more enlightened, will at the same time become more homogeneous, and will constantly be brought to feel more and more that they belong to one great community, and to one common country. Let us all attend to the religious teaching of our children on our own private account. The Catholics, the Jews, and others, whose rights are as sacred as those of any, do this. Why should not the Protestants do likewise? A discrimina tion in favor of Protestant christians, or other classes of men, is unequal, unjust, and contrary to the great principles of liberty which underlie our government violative in fact of the undisputed rights of man. Let us carefully, on all occasions, avoid distinctions of any kind among our fellow-citizens. The harmonious preser vation and sacred observance of the rights of all alike should never be for gotten, and always be firmly maintained. Mr. CAMERON. Mr. Chairman: I exceedingly regret that the question of the bible in the public schools has been introduced into this Convention. I be lieve that its consideration in this body can do no good, and may do much harm. I have, for myself, a very high respect for the bible. I believe itto be all that is claimed for it by its friends. Yet, I can not support the section that has been pre-o. sented by the gentleman from Woodford [Mr. Bayne]. I have very high respect for the motives which induced him to present that section, and which have in duced others to sustain it. I believe that in their conduct they are governed by principle and convictions of duty. I believe, however, that there are reasons ,why we ought not to incorporate this proposition into this Constitution. I do not desire to discuss these reasons at length-under the operation of the five minutes rule that cannot be done-and I will therefore restrict myself to a simple statement of them. I am opposed to the adoption of the proposed section, because I am in favor of the old rule that it "is best to leave w ell enough alone." We have no such provision as the one proposed, in our present Constitution-sthe Constitution under which our present system of com mortn schools have grown up and pros pered. Why shall we leave the beaten track to enter upon a new and perhaps dangerous path? "Custom makes law," and custom has generally established the bible in our public schools. Why not leave the question in the future, as in the past, to be determined by this law, or such other laws as the Legislature may, from time to time, enact? I am opposed to it, because it may be short-sighted and aembarrassing to the future to place this provision in the Constitution. What is meant by the "bible," is, as a matter of course, the King James ver sion of the bible. The courts, were the question to arise, would so decide —that, by the bible, was intended the common ly received version of the bible. The impression seems to be gaining ground that ~this version of the scriptures has served its day and generation, that, use ful as it may have been in the past, and honored on that account, as it may continue to be in the future, it is about to be set aside. Some of the evangelical denominations in this country and other countries, have come to this conclusion, and at the present moment, a movement, at the head of which stands the Archbishop of Canterbury, is on foot, with the consent of the whole protestant world, to secure a new version or translation of the bible and lay our present version on the shelf. Within ten years the King James version may be supplanted by another. Shall we, by constitutional enactment, enforce in our public schools the reading of a version which, with the consent of Christendom, may be consider ed obsolete and out of use? I am opposed to the propositon be cause it is a violation of the right of conscience and an act of intolerance. Under a republican government we have no right to lord it over the consciences of others. The catholic and Hebrew have, on the question of the Bible, their own convictions, and even if we believe these convictions to be less enlightened than our own, we must admit that the posses sors of them are equally sincere. Claim(ing the right to think for ourselves on all matters of religious faith, we must concede the same right to others. Nor am I prepared to join with some gentlemen on this floor in their wholesale denunciation of that large body of our people who adhere to the catholic faith. For the preservation of the Bible, we are mainly indebted to the church of Rome. It was guarded through every danger, as the most precious treasure confided to its keeping. In the ranks of that church have been found a Fenelon, a Massilon a Thomas a Kemipis, and in our own days a Hyacinth. To-day we find the American prelates of that church exhibiting a more than Ronmian courage in their oppo sition to the new dogma of infallibility sought to be promulgated. Tbe catholic, like the protestant, is responsible to his Maker for his faith and practice, and it becomes us not to set ourselves up as judges and law-givers in the premises. I am opposed to the section, because I believe the Bible is opposed to it. We are not to do evil that good may come. We are to do unto others as we would that others would do unto us, and I sub mit that were the catholics in the ascen dency in this State, and to, by constitu tional enactment, enforce the~reading of the Douay Bible in the schools, that every protestant in the State would cry out, and justly, at the intolerance of the act, and the violation of his right of con science. I am opposed to mixing up religion and education in this way. I would draw between the spiritual and secular, the line broad and deep, leaving religion to the family and the church, and education to the school and teacher. I am opposed to this provision, because it will defeat the object its friends have in view, and produce a hatred of the Bi ble, rather than a love for it. Persecu tion never yet gained an honest convert to any cause. I am opposed to it because it will break down the influence and usefulness of the public schools. Prejudice against our common school system is fast disappear ing. Is it wisdom to arouse it again, and more fiercely than ever before, by placing without just cause} inpntagonism to it, I CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION SATU.RDAY$ 1744 liar opinions, means simply freedom of their conscience, and the enslavement of -that of all who may differ from them; and in the same way, the reading Of the Bible in the schools means just the readiing of their version of it, to the, exclusion of all other versions. No matter what guise it may be presented in, it is the same disposition to persecution which has already, in numerous instances, desecrated our country. It only differs in degree. In principle it is the same-in its hideous and repulsive features, it is neither more attractive nor more tolerable. It is true-and for this let us rejoice that -no Roger Williams is now, because of his belief in baptism by immersion, driven with his wife and helpless little ones, in the midst of a rigorous winter, through deep snow, to shift as best he can, among hostile savages. No Baptist is mercilessly whipped at the cart's tail, through successive towns, by the consti tuted authorities, simply because he stub. bornly refuses to renounce L,.is cherished faith. There is no Catholic priest mur dered by law for the offense of entering within the bounds,of an American col ony, and no Quaker woman, like Eliza beth Robinsor,., hanged for the quiet and unobtrusive propagation of her religious opinions; but the strong arm of the law is none the less invoked in our ovn day, and in our own midst, to regulate the conduct and suppress the opinions of' those who happen to be obnoxious to the majority. As 1ODg as this spirit prevails, let us not boast of free'America, without a blush mantlinn, our cheeks, and the firm determination that we will not rest until the last vestige of coercion in mat ters of opinion is wiped away, and our country is free in fact, as well as in name. There is, or should be, in this country perfe,3t freedom to propagate any doc. trine or inculcate the precepts of any book, so long as the rights of the citizen are not interfered with. Let those who desire to teach the KiDg James version of the Bible, erect schools for that purpose; the way is perfectly open to them, and there is not the least danger that they will be hindered or molested in the undertaking. Let the huge and spacious churches which are so numerous and con spicuous in every place be iuade attractive b the enial kind and winnin conduct MA 7, 180 EATSAD ROEIG.1 which I believe will be detrimental to the interests of the new Constitution, that we are to submit, ol to the people. It is in this spirit that I ask that this matter be considered. I no not wish to demand that these great public interests shall be granted a fair hearing. I hope it will be accorded this without demand, and in order that nobody may be taken by surprise, I move that it be made the special order for Tuesday, at ten o'clock. Mr. McDOWELL. Mr. Chairman: I hope that this motion will not be adopt ed, for the reason that this canal question, after producing much discussion, and taking up a long space of time of the Convention, was definitely settled, and should not longer occupy its attention, and the effect of taking up this report at the future time mentioned will be to prolong our session and postpone ad journment-as the proposed amendment renders void the action of the Conven tion. While entertaining the highest person al respect for the gentleman from Bureau [ Mr. Whiting] I do think the attention of the Convention ought not longer to be called to this matter. As a member of the committee I take this position. I hope it will not be entertained, and I therefore move to lay the gentleman's motion the table. Mr. WHITING. I call for the yeas and nays. The yeas and nays were ordered. Mr. CARY. Has not the hour arrived for the special order? I call for it. Mr. WHITING. I ask that the vote be now taken, since it has been ordered. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The special order is ordered by the Conven tion. t Mr. WHITING. Would not this have precedence? Mr. TINCHER. We have not taken a vote, and the proposition of the gen tleman from Bureau [Mr. Whiting] is not in order. Mr. WHITING. I move to postpone the special order until the vote is taken, and on that I ask the yeas and nays. M Mr. ANDERSON. The gentleman from Bureau [Mr. Whiting] made the motion to take up the report of the Canal Committee, and make it the special or der. The gentleman fiom White [Mr. McDowell] moved to lay that motion on the table. I make the point of order that the motion the gentleman now makes cannot be entertained. Mr. WHITING. Then I call for a vote on laying the question on the table. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. The gentleman Irom JoDaviess [Mr. Cary] moved that the special order be taken up. Mr. WHITING. Then I move its postponement. u The PRESIDENT, pro tempore. It is too late now to ask for a vote on the question of postponemont. The question is, Shall the Convention resolve itself into Committee of the Whole 7 t.EDUCATION. The motion was agreed to. eSo the Convention, as in Committee of the Whole Mr. Hayes in the chair, resumed the consideration of the report of the Committee on Education. Ita Mr. WAGNER. I desire to offer the following, as a substitute for the addi tiMha l section offered by th e gentleman from Woodford [Mr. Bayne]. The Clerk read the substitute offered by Mr. Wagner, as follows: The Bible shall never be excluded from the common schools in this State, nor shall sec. tarian doctrines be taught therein. Mr. TINCHER. I do not, Mr. Chair. man, propose to detain the committee by the discussion of this question. It is one of importance, but the more we discuss the question the more intense will be the feeling, and no good, but evil must be the result. I believe where I am known I am known as a friend of the Bible, and a believer in all its precious promises. I believe that our free institutions are based upon Christianity, and the word of God, and that they are the foundation of all our true happiness. But, Mr. Chairman, as I do not propose to discuss the question, I move that the committee now rise, report the article back to the Convention, with amendments, and ask the concurrence of the Convention in the amendments of the Committee of the Whole. Mr. BAYNE. Mr. Chairman: I hope the gentleman will not press that motion, because there are men here who desire to speak. Mr. FOX. Mr. Chairman: Is the mo. tion in order? The CHAIRMAN. It is in order, and takes precedence. The question is on the motion of the gentleman from Vermilion [Mr. Tincher], that the committee now rise and report the article back to the Convention, asking concurrence therein. The motion of Mr. Tincher was agreed to. So the committee rose, reported back the report of the Committee on Education, together with amendments, and asked the concurrence of the Convention therein. Mr' TINCHER. Mr. President: I move that the report of the Committee of the Whole, on the article upon education, be now taken up. The moti,,n was agreed to. The following is the article as reported by the Committee of the Whole: ]EDUCATION~. SECTION 1. The General Assembly shall provide a thorough and eficent system of free schools, whereby all children of this State may receive a good common school education. SEc. 2. All lands, moneys or other proper ty, donated, granted, or received for school, college, seminary or university purposes, and the proceeds thereof, shall be faithfully ape plied to the objects for which such gifts or grants were made. SEC. 3. Neither the General Assembly nor any county ct, city, town, township, school district or other public corporation, shall ever make any appropriation or pay from any public fund whatever, anything in aid of any church or sectarian purpose, or to help support or sustain any school, academy, seminary, college, university or other literary or scientidc institution, controlled by any church or sectarian denomination whatever; nor shall any grant or donation of land, money or other personal property ever be made by the State or any such public corporation to any church, or for any sectarian purpose. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore (Mr. Allen, of Crawford, in the chair). The Chair asks a moment's delay. Unavoidabiy compelled to start home this evening, I will have to leave, and ask the gentle man from Cook [Mr. Hayes] to take the chair. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore (H,, Hayes in the chair). The question is up REPORT OF THE COMMITTEE ON CANAL AND CANAL LANDS. Mr. WHITING. Mr. President: I wish to call up the report of the Commit tee on Canal and Canal Lands. I wish that there should be a time set apart for its consideration, and I will say here that, as I know something of the sensi tiveness of the Convention upon that sub ject, and I wish to extend the assurance that, so far as I am concerned, or any friend of that measure, so far as I know, we shall not probably want any long dis cussion. We shall only want a fair con sideration of that, as we have had of every other matter of public business coming before the Convention. We are called upon by numerous and influential bodies of men, who have sent up their resolutions to us, to give this matter a consideration. The Convention referred these various resolutions to the canal committee, and the committee have made a report as acceptable as they believed one could be made, to the Convention. Wihen that matter comes up for consideration, for one, I shall accept the result as I do of everything else that is the settledjudgment of this Convention. It will not be my purpose to urge anything that I believe this Convention should not ac-~ cept, nor do I propose to press anything 437 MAY 7,1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1745 the catholic and the Hebrew and the ra. tionalist? I hold that it i,-, not so. I am opposed to the proposition be cause I believe the majority of our people do Dot ask th;s at our hands. The slight agitation of the question that has arisen, is the product cf sensational preachers and preachidg. I have a high respect for the pulpit, but I do not admire the policy which seizes the newly hatched "ism," and serves it out as spiritual food to a famishing CODgregation. Another and the last reason I shall mention opposi the proposition of the gentleman nirom Woodford [-'dr. Bayne] is, that it will unnecessarily array against the Constitution we are forming, that large class of the community opposed on conscientious grounds to this provision being incorporated into the organic law of the State. The Catholics and others, driven in this matter to the wall, will defend themselves by voting down the instrument of oppression. [Here the hammer fell.] Mr. TINCHER. Mr. Chairman: Mr. CARY' Mr. Chairman: I would ask the gentleman from Vermilion [Mr. Tincherj if he wi'l give way to a motion to rise? IVIR. TINCHER. I will Mr. CARY. I move that the committee do now rise, report progress, and ask .leave to sit again at two o'clock. The motion was agreed to. ADJOURNMENT. Mr. HAINES, of Cook. Mr. President: move the Convention do now ad'ourn. The motion was agreed to. So the Convention (at twelve o'clock and twenty-five minutes) adjourned. AFTERNO ON SESSION. SATURDAY, May 7,1870. The Convention met at two o'clock P. m., and was called to order by the Presideut, pro tempore (Mr. Allen, of Crawford). 1q46 ()OSTJTUTIONAL COYETIO SATURDAY, committee, and the Chair is certainly right. Mr. CARY. I ask that the absentees be called. Mr. RICE. Mr. President: The vote has been announced correctly; the only question is whether its effect has been correctly announced. The Chair has decided'that the vote is not a concurrence in the action of the committee, and so the section stands. It is too late to take another vote after we have voted and the result has been announced. I think the majority and not less than the majority concurs. The PRESIDENT pro tempore (Mr. Hayes in the chair). The decision of the Chair has been annoauced. If it is not satisfactory to gentlemen, an appeal can be taken. Mr. TINCHER. Mr. President: We need not delay much upon this, because we have to go back and go over the entire article, and another vote can be takenr upon the same subject, The PRESIDENT pro tempore (Mr. Hayes in the chair). If no appeal is taken from the decision of the Chair, the ques tion will be upon concurring with the Committee of the Whole, in its amend ment to section four. The amendment was agreed to. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore (Mr. Hayes in the chair). The question is upon concurring with the amendment to section five, striking out the same. The Secretary read section five, as fol lows: SEC. 5. There shall be a State Superintend ent of Public Instruction, who shall be elect ed at the same time, in the same manner, and for the same term as the Governor, and shall hold his office until h'is successor is elected and qualified, and whose powers, duties and compensation shall be regulated by law. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore (Mr. Hayes in the chair). The question is upon the amendment striking out the section. The amendment was agreed to. The Secretary read section six, as fol lows: SEC. 6. There shall be a county superin tendent of schools in each county whose qualifications, powers, duties, compensation and time and manner of election, and term of office shall be prescribed by law. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore (Mr. Hayes in the chair). The question is upon concurring with the Committee of the Whole in the amendment to this section, striking out the same. hMr. PARKS. Mr. President: I hope the Convention will not concur with the committee in striking out the section. 1 henpe the suggestion of the gentleman from Vermilion [Mr. Tincher] will be adopted, and the word,"may" inserted, instead of "shall," so that it will read, that there may be a county superintende ent, thus letting the Legislature use their discretion in the matter. I think this article on education should recognize this officer, and make it the du ty of the Legislature to prescribe some qualifications for him, which the Legisla ture has never yet done. I think that if that is done, it would perhaps satisfy all parties. Then if the time ever comes, when we do not need such an officer, the Legislature can abolish the office. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore (Mr. Hays in the chair). The Chair will state to the gentleman that, in Convention, the question must be taken first upon the YEAS. Cummings, Fox, Fuller, McDowell, Neece, Ross, Sharp, Springer, motion to strike out, that being the pending amendment. Mr. TINCHIER. Mr. President: I only want to say, in relation to the section, that I desire to change the word "shall" for the word "may." I have no prejudice against school superintendents, for we have a good one in my county, and I am in favor of recognizing the fact. Yet I doubt the propriety of making this office a constitutional one. We ought to leave it so that the matter can be taken up by the Legislature and disposed of as they think proper. Mr. PARKS. Mr. President: I only wish to suggest that if the Convention refuse to concur in the amendment by which the section was stricken out, the gentleman can have his amendmnent made, and then I suppose everybody will be satisfied with it. Then it will be under the control of the Legislature for all time, Mr. WHITING. Mr. President: I do not know that it is necessary to enter into any further discussion of this mat. ter, and I do not propose to do so; but I wish to say that if we strike out this section and do not recognize the office of county superintendent of schools, we shall offend a very large and a very worthy sentiment in the State of Illinois. The educational interest will feel, in my judgment, very much aggrieved at this action of the Convention. The truth is, that the school interest is the most vital to us of almost any other in the State, and that this office of coun ty superintendent is an absolute necessi ty to the well working of the educa tiornal system. There is no call at all, I think, for that office to be abolished (cer tainly not where the people have elected good officers), and the educational inter ests require it as a necessary part of school machinery. I think it will be unfortunate to take such a backward step on this question, so vital to the suc cess of our common schools. Mr. CODY. Mr. President: I know that the Convention are somewhat impa tient of any delay, in regard to this sub ject, but I desire to submit a thought or two in reference to it. I suppose that every man's mind will be made up, in regard to this office, by his own experience in his own1 county. So far as the county I rep resent is concerned, we have been very greatly favored irn this regard. For about twenty years, I think, the "school com missioners,"> as these offiers were former ly named, anld the "county superinlten de. nts," as they are now called, have been among the most useful officers in mly county. Years ago, the Rev. Hope Brown, now of Rockford Female Seminary, was the school commissioner of the county I represenlt. Tohis faithful and earnest labors, the people of that county are greatly indebted, and we shall ever re member him with gratitude. By visiting all the schools in the county, conferring with the teachers, and by his written description o:f schools and school-houses, published in the county paper, a healthy> rivalry was created, which soon filled the county with superior schoolhouses, and finely conducted schools. I take great pleasure in being able to thus publiclyr give due credit to one of the best and most useful men in the State. Our present county superintendent is ~also a most competent Shd faithful officer, Abbott, Ray, Ellis, Hayes, Forman, Hildrup, Gamble, McCoy,. Goodell, Moore, Goodhue, Parker, Haines of CookParks, Hankins, Perley, Harwood, ABSENT, OR NOT VOTING. Allen of Crwfd,Coolbaugh, Poage, Allen of Alex.,Dement, Robinson, Archer, Eldredge, Scholfield, Atkins, English, Snyder, Benjamin, Haines of LakeSkinner, Bowman, Hanna, Tubbs, Bromwell, Hart, Turner, Brown, King, Wall, Bryan, Medill, Wheaton, Buxton, Merriam, Wright, Cameron, Pillsbury, Mr. President-33. 1146 CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION SATURDAY, on the amendment proposed by the Committee of the Whole. And the first ques tion is on the first amendment to the first section, by which the word "minor" was stricken out in the second line. Mr. CODY. Alr. Presideiit: I move the previous question. The motion for the previous question was agreed to, and the main question ordered. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore, (Mr. Hayes in the chair). The question is on the first amendment, which is to the first section, by which the word "minor," in the second line, was stricken out. The amendment was agreed to. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore (Mr. Hayes in the chair). The question is up - on concurring with the amendment of the Committee of the Whole, and striking out section four. The yeas and nays were ordered, and being taken, resulted-yeas, 25, nays 25 -as follows: A-nderson, Anthony, Bayne, Browning, Cary, Church, Cody, Crai,g, Cross, Sutherland, Truesdale, Vandeventer, TVaishburn, Wells, Wendling, Whitirig, Wilson-25. NAYS. Peirce, Rice, Sedgwick, Sherrill Tincher Underwood, Wagner Wait,-25. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore- (Mr. Ilayes in the chair). There being twentyfive in the aflirmative and twenty-five in the Degati-ve, the amendment is not concurred in. The question now is on the amendment to section four, insetting after the word ilbook" in line two the words "except the author thereof." Mr. FOX. I rise to a point of order. The question was put on concurring with the amendment. The vote being a tie we do concur. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore (Mr. Hayes in the chair). When a proposition is made, and a sufficient vote is not given to carry that proposition, it is in effect negatived. Air. WELLS. Mr. President: There beiiig a tie vote, it becomes the duty of the President to give the casting vote. Mr. McDOWELL. Mr. President: The question was on concurrence in the report of the Committee of the Whole striking out section four. Can the gent.leman who occupies the chair now as President vote twice? Mr. TINCHER. Mr. President: It is clear that we do not concur. and section four stands as before ttie action of the MAY 7, 1870. DL'BATES AiNI) PROCEL1DJNUS. 1717~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~.. 1~.... ABSENT, OR NOT VOTING. Allen of Alex.,Cross, Poagente, Allen of Crfd., Dement, Robinson, Archer, English, Scholfield, Atkins, laines of LakeSkinner, BtenjaminU Hanna, Tubbs, Bowman, Hart, Turner, Bromwell, King, Wall, Brown, Medill, Wheaton, Bryan, Parker, Wright, Buxton, Perley, Mr.President-32. Coolbaugh, Pillsbury, So the motion to concur with the Comm- ittee of the Whole in its amendment, striking out the sixth section, was not agreed to. Mr. PARKS. I move the previous question on the section. Mr. WASHBURN. I hope the gentleman will withdraw his motion. Mr. PA RKS. I cannot withdraw. The motion for the previous question was not agreed to. Mr. McDOWELL. I move to ameid the first section by adding to it the following: But that in all cases colored children shall not be permitted to attend school with white children. Mr. TINCHER. I move to lay the motion on the table. Mr. McDOWELL. I will ask the gentleman to withdraw his motion and let us take a direct vote on the question, Mr. TINCHER. This will be direct enough to satisfy the gentleman. The yeas and nays were ordered, and be ing taken, resulted-yeas 36, nays 18as follows: and is doing good work fo r tth e c ause of education. I am decidedly in favor of fixing this now as a permanent office in the Constitution. Wce hav e m ade the State Superintendent an executive officer by our action hereere, and established a system of free schools. It seems to me peculiarly proper that there should be an. office r at the h ea d of the school system in th e county as well as in the State. I think it necessary, in ord er to properly carry out the cormon school system. The question ra ised by the gentleman fr om Kane [,Mr. Wheaton] th is forenoon, is worthy of our careful attention. The article on counties provides who shall be elected as county officers, but does not include the.county superintendent of schools, and it is possible the rule of construction, that'-the expression of one thin,g is the exclusion of all others," appli e d to the county article, would have the effect to abolish this office and prevent the General Assemby from providing for the same in the future. Mr. TINCHER. Does not our present Constitution make a provision for this officer? Mr. CODY. It does not. Mr. TINCHER. Does the article on counties. Mr. CODY. Itdoesnot. Our present Constitution in regard to county officers is entirely different from the one we are preparing here. There is no general provision in the Constitution of 1848, as to who shall be county officers. In the article on counties which -we have adopted, we have enumerated the list of county officers, which has not been done in either of the former Constitutions of this State. There may, therefore, be a question as to whether the retention of this section is not necessary, if we desire to retain this officer. I did not rise, however, to discuss this matter at any length. I simply desire to give my voice in favor of establishing the office of.county superintendent in this Constitution, and hope the section may be retained. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore (Mr. Hayes in the chair.) The question is on concurring with the Committee of the Whole in its amendment, striking out the sixth section. The Secretary read section six, as follows: SEC. 6. There shall be a county superintendent of schools in each county, whose qualifications, powers, duties, compensation, and time ajad manner of election, and term of office shall be prescribed by law. SEC. 3. Neither the General-Assembly nor any county, city, town, township, school district, or other public corporation, shall evcr make any appropriation, or pay from any public fund whatever, anything in aid of any church or sectarian purpose- or to help support or sustain any school, academy, semisr~ary, college, university or other literary or _cientific institution, controlled by any church or sectarian denomination whatever; nor shall any grant or donation of land, money or other personal property ever be made by the State or any such public corporation, to any church, or for any sectarian purpose. Mr. CARY. Mr. President: I wish to ask the chairman of the committee whether the word "or," after the word "State," in the seventh line, is correct? Mr. PARKS (in his seat.) Yes, sir. The PRESIDENT pro temvpore (Mr. Hayes in the chair.) The question is upon the section. Section three was agreed to. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore (Mr. Hayes in the chair). The question is uponr the adoption of section four, as amended. The Secretary will read the section. The Secretary read section four? as amended, as follows: SEC. 4. No teacher, State, county, township or district school officer shall ever be, interested in the sale, proceeds or profits of any book (except the author thereof), appa. ratuus or furniture used or to be used in any scbool in this State, under such penalties as may be provided by the General Assembly. Mr. WHITING. Mr. President: I move to strike out the section. Mr. TINCHER. Mr. President: We can have a vote directly on the section without the necessity of two votes for the saIe purpos e. Mr. PAR KS. Mr. President: This section, I am satisfied, can be modified to obviate the objections of gentlemen. There is a strong feeling in the Con-' vention, and throughout the country, that the Convention ought to adopt some such provision as this. I am in favor of modifying this section so far as to strike out the word " teacher," if necessary, and it seems to me, in view of the feeling that exists, some provision should be adopted against the supposed speculation here contemplated, and that so many good people really believe exists in the management of our common school svstem. Mr. HAY. Mr. President: I hope the motion to strike out will not prevail, but tialt it may be amended so as to obviate objections - M'i. WHITING. Mr. President: I withdraw my motion to strike out, for the purpose of perfecting the section, and if it is so perfected, I shl11 not renew my motion. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore (5Ir. Hayes in the chair). The miotion to strike out is withdrawn. The question is upon the adoption of the section. Mr. HAY. Mr. President: I wish to offer an amendment to the section, and before doing so, I will simply say, that ABSENT, OR NOT VOTING. Allen of Alex.,Cody, Poage, Allen of Cr'fd.,Coolbaagh, Robinson, Archer, Dement, Scholfield, Atkins, English, Skinner, Benjamin, Haines of LakeTurner, Bowman, Hanna Wall, Bromwell, Hart, Wheaton, Brown, King, Wright, Bryan, Medill, M-. President-29. Buxton, Pillsbury, So the motion of Mr. Tinrcher to lay on the table the amendment offered by Mr. McDowell was agreed to. The PRESIDENT pro tempore (Mr. Hayes in the chair.) The qt,estion is upon the adoption of section one. Mr. TINCHER. Mr. President: I move the previous question upon the adoption of section one. The motion for the previous question was agreed to, and the main question ordered. Section one was agreed to. The PRESIDENT pro temnpore (Mr. Hayes in the chair.) The question is upon the adoption of section two. The Secretary read section two, as follows: Abbott, Hay, Anderson, Hayes, Church, McDowell, Craig, Moore, Cummings,,Neece, Ellis, - Rice, Forman Ross, Haines of CookSharp, Hankins, Snyder, Tincher, Truesdale, Vandeventer, Wait Washburn, Wendling, Wilson-25. NAYS. Gamble Goodell, Goodhue, Harwood, Hildrup, McC~oy, Merriam, Parks, Peirce, IVIAY'7) 1 8 70. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1711 - SE(-',. 2. All lands,'moiieys, or other property, donated, granted or received for school,' college, seminary or uulversity purposes, and the proceeds thereof, shall be faithfully applied to the objects for whiebl such gifts or grants were inade. Section two was agreed to. The PRESIDENT pro tempore. (Afr. Hayes in the chair.) The question is upon the adoption of section three. The Secreiary read section three, as follows. TEA.$. Anthony,, Bayne, Browning, Cameron, Cary, Chure,h, Craig, Cross, Eldredge, Fuller, (4aruble, C,oodell', Goodhu 0, Sedgwick, ITaines Of CookStierrill, f4arwood, springer, Ray, Sutherland Hildr-up, Tincher, McCoy, Truesdale, Merriam, Tubbs, Moolve,.'Uoderwood, Parker, Wagner, Parks, Wait, Perley, wells, Peirce, Whiting-36. i NAYS. Hankins, Hayes, McDowell, Neece, Rice, Ros,, Abbott, Andersoli, C-n-inmings, Ellis, Forman, Fox, Sharp,'i, Snyder, Vandeventer, Washburn, Wendling, Wilson-18. The yeas and nays were ordered, and be,iiig taken, resulted-yeas 25, nays 26as follows: YEAS. A-ntl,iony, Bayiie, BrowDing, Cameron, ICary Cody, Eldredge, I Fox, Fuller,-,. Sed,-,-wick, Sherrill, Springer,, Sutherland, Undcrwood, Wagner, Wells, Wright-26. 1748 COSTITUTIOXAL COVETIO SATIJRDAY, prepared by Mrs. Willard, the famous teacher of Troy Seminary. Mr. HAINES, of Cook (in his seat). She is dead. Mr. CARY. And there are many in stances of books prepared in the same way. Almost every valuable school book is prepared by a teacher, and I do not think it would be just to prevent teachers from using their own books. Mr. TINCHER. Mr. President: I would like to ask the gentleman a ques tion. Have not those teachers who have written valuable works, generally retired from the profession? fMr CARY. No, sir. They have not, in any one of these instances that I have spok en of, I believe. I am inclined to think the safest plan is to strike out the entire section, for I do not think it necessary; but, if it is to be adopted, I hope the word "teacher" will be stricken out. Mr. UNDERWOOD. Mr. President: I h ope the amendment of the gentleman from Sangamon [Mr. Hay] will be adopt ed. It should remove all serious objec tion to the section. Now, sir, it is a notorious complaint that agents for books and school appara tus go around and get the teachers and school directors to introduce their books and school apparatus into the schools, giv ing them a commission. The teacher or school directors' duty is to get the very best books and apparatus possible. ~ It is a principle as old as the common law, that an officer's or agent's interest never ought to be in conflict with his du ty. If, by getting books of one of these agents, a teacher or director gets a com mission, his interest is one way, and his duty is the other way. Why, sir, in the Constitution we have forbidden a member of the General As sembly being interested in contracts, un der laws made during his membership. Then, by the common law, a sheriff, an agent, or a master in chancery, cannot purchase property at his own sales. The human mind is so constituted that no pub tlic officer ought to be put in a position where he can make a profit by doing that which will prejudice the public. Parents have been compelled to purchase books unnecessarily, and sometimes worthless books, at great expense. Our common school system ought to be made popular. To make it popular we must establish schools upon the true principle, and place these officers in a position where they will not only be unable to practice dishonesty, but where they will be above suspicion. This will be a very slight restriction upon these teachers. Their works can be circulated all over the State, and they will only be limited to iLtroducing them where their interest may cause a conflict with their duty. Mr. CHURCH. Mr. President: It is not for the purpose of opposing the principles embodied in this section that I offer any remarks, but to ask the attention of the friends and framers of the section as to what would be the benefit of the section if the General Assembly should fail to pass any law with reference to it. If; the General Assembly must legislate in order to give effect and force and usefulness to the section, would it not be better, I suggest, for us to leave the section out, as being legislation only, beneficial as we all acknowledge our school system to be, yet organized as it is with an immense system of State, county, township and distri ct officers and teachers throughout the St te, we all see that it affords a vast instrumentality for abuse, and that we should carefully guard against abuses which it is easy to see may be in troduced through this machinery. It is our duty to protect it not only from actual abuses and evils that may have crept in, but from the imputation of such evils. Now, it is easy for every member of this Convention to see that this machinery, organized as it is, affords great facilities for the schemes of speculators, through the manipulation of school officers, for the introduction of new books and new apparatus for our school rooms-that by using these instrumentalities, through the system of county, township and district officers, or school directors, the opportunity affords great temptation for abuse. Mr. McDOWELL. Mr. President: I will ask the gentleman if the effect of the adoption of this section, will not be to cast a direct reflection upon every teacher and officer of every district, town and county in the State, who has been acting under the school law we now have? Mr. HAY. I do not think so. I have proposed an amendment to this section, which I think obviates the objection to it in its original shape-that it was too sweeping in its provisions. It is to insert in the third line, after the word "State," the words and as not going far enough to accom. plish anything as legislation? It is very evident to me, from the great diversity of opinion that prevails upon this subject, that it is a question upon which the people widely differ, a ques. tion upon which the people and teachers aiid officers might widely differ, and that it.ljuries may result from adopting the section. No good can come from it un les s the Legislature should go on and carry it into effect by legis lation. Mr. RICE. Has it not been the prac tice for the officers connected with the common schools to prepare bills for leg. islative committees-which are usually passed upon their recommendation? Do they not control in point of fact nearly all the legislation upon this subject? Mr. CHURCH. I cannot for a mo ment admit that it is in their own hanids. While teachers and officers may have proportionate influence upon the legisla tive body of the State, which they ought to have, they are the very instruments by which the free school system of the State is kept in motion; and while I con cede that they have and should have their proportionate share of iufluence in the Legislatuce, I deny that they can control any General Assembly, coming from the people, upon this subject. Now, I do not believe that legislation should go into the Constitution at all, particu larly legislation upon a disputed ques. tion. Mr. HAY. Is it a disputed question that school teachers should be specula tors in books? Mr. CHURCHT. It is a disputed ques tion whether school teachers should h2ave anything to do with the control of school books. I find it even a much dis puted question here, whether school teachers should be authors of school books, and should have the right to sell those books, or allow others to sell them for the use of public schools. I do not know that any one would dispute the fact that officers should not be specula. tors in books. They should. not; but it is a disputed question whether the prohi bition should go into the Constitution in the form here proposed. Let it be left to the Legislature, where it belongs. [Here the hammer fell.] Mr. WENDLING. Mr. President: I call for the previous question. Mr. HAY. Mr. President: I ask whether ally amendments- were adopted to the section? The PRESIDE3NT, _pro tempore (YIr. Hayes in the chair). The Chair will state that the Commnittee of the Whole passed an amendment to the section, and after that amended it further by striking out the whole section. The first amendment was not concurred in. The Chair put the motion on striking out. That was not correct. The Chair will hold that the section has nlot been amended. The amendment of the gentleman from Sangamen [Mr. Hay] is in order. The Secretary read section four, as proposed to be amended by the amendment offered by Mr. Hay, as follows: No teachler, State, county, township or disg trict schooi omieer shall ever be interested in the sale, proceeds or profits of any book, apparatus or furniture, used or to be used in any school in this State with which such officer or teacher may be connected, under such penalties as may be provided by.the General Assembly. - 1748 CONSTITUTIONAL CON'VENTION SATURDAY, With which such officer _or teacher may be connected. Th;-s does not deprive the teacher author of the whole field of the State at large for the sale of his book. His own school, too, may have the advantage of it, without having to buy it of him-so that this is no interdiction whatever to him. It cripples nobody, but protects our school system from the abuses to which it is so liable. Mr. CARY. Mr. President: If we are going to adopt this section, I desire to have it perfected, but I do not think that the amendment just offered removes the objection, The most of our best school books are prepared by practical teachers, and, at first, for their own use. "Wayland's Intellectual Philosophy" was pre. pared for the students of Brown University by its distinguished author. Would it have been just to have prohibited him from using it in the instruction of his own pupils? 'Nlr. HAY. The effect of this would be this: If Dr. Wayland published a valuable work the university over which he presided would buy it from a bookstore, and not frcra him. Mr. CARY. But the author almost always has an interest in the copyright and sales, whether he -sells the book himself or not. Again, every edition of Webster's unabridged Dictionary, which no one would wish to exclude from the schools, has been, for fifteen years, prepared by Professor Goodrich, of Yale College. Mr. WAGNER - This only applies to the text-books used in our common school system, and would not affect such works as those mentioned. Mr. CARY. I understand that; and I only use these as illustrations. The history most used, perhaps, by the pupils in all the schools of the Unitedtates, was MY,180. DBTS P)PO)DIS.14 The Bible shall never be excluded from the common schools in this State, nor shall sectarian doctrines be taught therein. The PRESIDENT pro tempore (Mr. Hayes in the chair). The Chair is cf opinion that it is germane, because it is on the general subject of education and management of common schools. It is offered as an amendment to strike out and insert. Mr. HARWOOD. Mr. President: The question raised by the substitute is not whether the Bible shall be forced into the schools. Nobody desires that. But the question is, whether it shall be forced out of our schools. Some do desire this, and on this question I desire o be heard a few minutes. The Bible is the book of all books. The Creator of the universe made it, and the book is worthy of its great author. In the vastness and sublimity of its conceptions, in the purity and perfection of its moral principles and instructions, and in its deep and unfathomable treasures of wisdom, it is as far superior to all other books as the creation of the universe is superior to the works of man. It makes known to us our origin, the cause and the consequence of sin, and our relation to this world and the next. It contains the only true history of our race, from the creation of the first man down to the time of Abraham-a period of mnore than two thousand years. It presents to us the remarkable history of the Abrahamic nation, to whom were committed the two tables of the divine decalogue, and who themselves were made a living spectacle to the world, to teach the existence of the only true God, and his overruling power in all events, whether they appertain to individuals or to nations. This history extends from the call of Abraham to the coming of Christ, another period of nearly two thousand years. It gives to us the wonderful history of Jesus Christ while on earth, who, having fulfilled all righteousness, laid down his life, the just for the unjust, and who, having laid down his life, took it again, and was exalted to be a Prince and a Saviour, being forever more the supreme ruler over all, and the Saviour of all who believe in his name; there being "none other name under Heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved." The New Testament is the promulgation of HHis government on earth, by whose word all are judged here, and will be judgeda hereafter; and at the same time, "it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth." It also affords us brief biographies of various men, both good and bad, and the dealings of God with them, in his over-ruling providence, according to their respective characters-the former being held up to our view as examples for our imitation and profit, and the latter being presented to our view as examples to warn us against the indulgence and commission of sin, and the consequent displeasure and judgment of heaven. Indeed, "all scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness." Such is a glimpse, and but a glimpse, of this book of all books. As a book of history, it is the most important of all books; as a book of biography, it is the most important of all books; and especially as a book of divine instruc YEAS. Abbott, Hlarwood, Browning, Hay, Cameron, Hayes, GCross, McCoy, Ellis, Medill, Forman, Merriam, Fuller, Moore, Gamble, Parker, Goodell, Parks Goodhue, Perley, Haines of Cook,Peirce, NAYS. McDowell, Neece, Ross, Sharp, Snyder, Springer, ABSENT, OR NOT VOTING. Allen of Alxx'n,Cody, King, Allen of Cwf'd,Coolbaugh, Pillsbury, Anthony, Dement, Poage, Archer, Eldredge, Robison, Atkins, English, Scholfield, Benjamin, Haines of Lake,Skinner. Bowman, Hankins, Turner, Bromwell, Hanna, Wall, Brown, Hart, Wright, Bryan, Hildrup, Mr. President-31. Buxton, So section four, as amended, wasagreed Mr. FOX. I move to amend by chang ing "shall," in the first line, into "may." The amendment offered by Mr. Fox was agreed to. Mr. WAGNER. While in Committee of the Whole, I offered a substitute for the section offered by the gentleman from Woodford [Mr. Bayne]. I desire to offer that now as an amendment to the section. Mr. TINCHER. I claim it is not germane to the section. The Secretary read the amendment offered by Mr. Wagner, as follows:, 438 s t DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1749 MAY 7, 1870. tion, pertaining to our highest interests here and hereafter, it is the most important of all books. As such it is appreciated I trust, by many members of this Convention. It is certainly so appreciated by many, very many, of the people of this Christian country. To very many of the best people of this State, it is truly a most precious book. Now, what we desire is that this im. portant and precious book shall be forever free for the use of all, whether it be in the family, in the public school, in the Christian church, or in aDy other place. We do not wish to force it upon anybody, or into aDy school, or into any other place; nor do we wish it to be forced from anybody, or from any school, or from any other place; for if it may be forced from one place, it may be from another, or if it may be forced from our public schools, i,t may on the same principle, aDd by onlv a few more steps taken, be forced from the whole civil community of the State. We simply desire to leave it free in the hands of all persons, and all institutions, for them to use, or not use it, as they may see proper; and that there shall be no power in the State, on the part of Legislatures or school officers, ever to deprive the peo. ple of this privilege. In some of the foreign countries, the general use of the bible has for a long time been diSCr, ura —ed. and to a great extent prevented, and the conscqucr-,ce in those countries has been that the masses of the people have been kept in dark. ness, superstition, and degradation, being haters of the moral light, and restraints of the Bible, because their deeds are evil. And, even in this country, there is already a great number of people, mostly foreigners from those countries to which I have referred, who, iin their hearts, are opposed to the free and general use of the Bible, and who are hoping and aimidg, by acquiridg the balance of political power, to put their opposition into practical effect. Their first positive and open, endeavor in this direction, seen-is to beto exclude it from the public, schools. The vigorous efforts of this kind recently made in the city of Cincinnati, should bea warDi]Og to the poeple of this Statc-, Especially should it be a warning to us, their representatives, here assembled in Convention to frame a new Constitution, The PRESIDENT pro tempore (Mr. Hayesin thechair). Thequestionisupon the motion of the gentleman from Sangamon [Mr. Hay.] Mr. WHITING. Mr. President: I could not vote for such a proposition as that. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore,. (Mr. Hayes in the chair). Remarks are not now in order. The motion of Mr. Wendling fer the previous question was agreed to, and the main question ordered. The amendment offered by Mr. Hay -was agreed to. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore, (Mr. Hayes in the chair). The question is upon the adoption of the section, as amended. Mr. FOX. Mr. President: Is another amendment in order? The PRESIDENT, pro tempore (Mr. Hayes in the chair). It is not. The yeas and nays were ordered, and being taken, resulted-yeas, 33, -nays, 19 -as follows: Rice, Sedgwick, Sherrill, Tincher, Tubbs, Underwood, Vaiadeventer, Wagner, wit, Wendling, Wheaton-33. Anderson, Bayne, Cary, Church, ra.lg, Cummings, Fox, Sutherland, Truesdal,o, Washburn, Wells, Whiting, Wilson19. to. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore (Mr. Hayes in the chair). There is another section. The question will be now upon section six. The amendment of the Committee of the Whole was to strike out the section. The Convention refused to con-. cur with the committee in striking it out. I am informed by the Secretary that the vote shows a non-coucurrence with that amendment. The question is, shall section six be adopted. THE BIBLE IN COMMON SCHOOLS. 1-O(OSIU1NLC~ETO AUDY was agreed to, and the main question ordered. Mr. WAGNER. Mr. President: I desire to make an inquiry. I would prefer, if I could do so, to correct my amendment to this section. I inquire if it is admissible. The PRESIDENT pro tempore (Mr. Hayes in the chair). No change is now admissible, except by unanimous consent, the previous question having been ordered. The question is on the motion to refer. [" Yeas and nays."] The yeas and nays were ordered. Mr. PARKS. Mr. President: I ask the unanimous consent of the Convention, to hear the gentleman from St. Clair [Mr. Underwood], who, I believe, is the oldest man on this Committee on Education, and a member of one of the leading Christian churches in this State. I would like to hear him state to this'Convention, and through it and the press to the people, the reasons why this committee has not already taken action on this subject. I think something of the kind ought to go out from this body, in connection with the speeches of the gentleman from Woodford [Mr. Bayne], and from Kankakee [Mr. Gamble], and other gentlemen. Mr. WENDLING. Mr. President: I hope the gentleman from St. Clair [Mr. Underwood] will be heard. The PRESIDENT pro tempore (Mr. Hayes in the chair). It can only be done by unanimous consent. ["Object." "Object."] Mr. ROSS. Has this subject everbeen before the Committee on Education? ["No." "No."] Mr. ROSS. Then there is a manifest propriety that they should have an opportunity of examining it before it is passed on. Mr. BAYNE. Mr. President: I want to state that this subject has been The PRESIDENT, pro tempore (Mr. Hayes in the chair). Remarks are not in order. The yeas and nays have been ordered. The Secretary proceeded to call the roll. Mr. FOX (when his namne was called) said: Mr. President: For the purpose of hearing the gentleman from St. Clair [Mr. Underwood], I vote "No." Mr. MEDILL (when his name was called) said: Mr. President: I vote "No," bfor the purpose of hearing the gentleman from St. Clair [Mr. Underwoodj. Mr. PARKS (when his name was called) said: Mr. President: For the purpose of hearing the gentleman from St. Clair [Mr. Underwood], I vote "No." I have no objection to the reference at all. Mr. ROSS (when his name was called) said: Mr. President: For the reason stated by the chairman of the committee, I think it is due to the gentleman from St. Clair that he shall be heard, and I therefore vote "No." Mr. WASHBURN (when his name was called) said: Mr. President: Believing that it is the proper time now to face this question, meet it in this Convention, and not smother it in a committee, I vote "No." The result was then announced —yeas 18, nays, 32-as follows: Neece, Parker, Perley, Robinson, son or class of persons; but in view of the vast emigration to this country of those who are unfriendly to the general use of the Bible; in view of the uncertainty of future events, under the idfluence of their votes at the public polls; and especially in view of the bold efforts which have already been made, and are likely to be made hereafter, to exclude t he Bibl e from the public schools, they ask that by an ex pre ss provision in the organic law of the State, its free use shall be secured to all men and all children, for all time to come. [Here the hammer fell.] ]"Go on." "Go on." "Object."] Mr. WENDLING. MIr. President: I desire to speak on this question, but cheerfully yield three minutes of my time to the gentleman, reserving two for myself. Mr. HARWOOD. I am obliged to the gentleman. I have only a few words more to say. This is a privilege which hitherto has always been enjoyed in this country. It is an inheritance from our fathers. As descendants from the puritans and other religious people who first settled this country, and as true American citizens, we are justly entitled to it, and all the foreigners and infidels who have come or shall come to our free shores, have no right, and will have no right, to take it from us. When they attempt, as they have done and are still disposed to do, to exclude the Bible from our public schools, or in any way to interfere with its free use, they commit a high-handed outrage upon our rights as a Christian people, and as American citizens. Therefore, sir, in view of the past and the future, of what has been attempted heretofore and is likely to be attempted hereafter, threatening the free use of the Bible in our public schools, and perhaps I might say, in the whole country, I do think it reasonable, right, just and eminently proper that we insert in the Constitution this provision or something like it, whereby the free use of the Bible shall be permanently secured to all persons and to all institutions in this commonwealth. It is now timely to do it. The people desire it, and a large majority of them stand ready to support this measure. A quarter of a century hence it may be too late, and the result may be that the Bible will be brought into general disuse, and heresy, superstition and infidelity will be joined together to sink the masses of the people into moral dark:ness, corruption and degradation. To prevent this, or the possibility of it, I hope the substitute will be adopted. Mr. WENDLING#. Mr. President: I think, sir, that consmderations of the utmost importance, which will suggest themselves to the mind of every delegate here, require that we should proceed with matters concerning which there will be less controversy. There is a great deal of unfinisfied business before us, and this proposition in regard the introduction of the Bible into schools has come upon us so suddenly that I think the Convention is unprepared to act upon it. I move that the substitute be referred to the Committee on Education, and upon that motion I call for the previous questioll. The motion for the previous question AB SENT OR NOT VOTING., Allen, of Alex.,: Coolbaugh, Poage, Allen of Crfd. Cross, Scholfield, Archer, Dement, Skinner, Atkins, English, Springer, Benjamin, Haines of LakeTurner, Bowman, Hankins, Underwood, Brown, Hanna, Wait Bryan, Hart, Wall, Buxton, King, Wells, Cary, Merriam, Wright, Cody, Pillsbury, Mr. President-33. So the motion of Mr. Wendling, to refer the additional section offered by Mr. Bayne to the Committee on Education, was not agreed to. Mr. FOX. Mr. President: Before the gen tleman begins, I wish to move that the rules be suspended, so as to allow him to proceed as long as may be necessary. Mr. UNDERWOOD. Mr. President: I would say to the gentleman that I thank him fbr his kindness, but I shall probably not need more than five minutes. Mr. President: Feeling as I have for the last twenty-five-yes, thirty years, ever since I have been in Illinois —a deep interest in our common schools, in their struggles, their progress and future prosperity, no question has come before this Convention, in which I have so deep an interest, as in this. Whatever hopes or ambition I may have had at one period of my life, I think I can safely say that now I have very little, except this-to endeavor while here to give to the people of the State a good Constitution, such as will be worthy of the great State in which we live, and will secure to every man equal and exactjustice. Before touching upon the main question, let me — say to gentlemen that I believe the Bible, of which they have spoken so much, to be a work of divine inspiration. It is the only book which teaches of our origin and our destiny. It is the fairest history, contains the most sublime poetry, the purest morals and the most intricate metaphysics that can be found in all books. It is adapted to all classes, conditions and circumstances in life. It restrains men from vice, encourages every virtue, is a true guide in all the stages of life, and cheers and sustains when no friend can aid, in the solemn hour of death. The diffusion of that book, all over the world, is essential to the peace and the highest progress and the prosperity of mankind. Wherever it is read and regarded, the greatest liberty, civilization and happiness are enjoyed. The history of the French revolution is a lesson, sir, which should be graven in our heart of hearts, in proof that blank infidelity is always allied with despotism and barbarity. But, sir,'I would not at all rely upon gov>ernlmenltal instrumentality for the perpet. CONSTITUTIONAL: CON'VENTI0114 SATURDAY) 1750, Cra' lghge, Eldre - Ell, is, Forman, Sutherland, Vandeventer, Wheaton, Wilson-18. NA.YS. Anderson, Anthony, Bayne, Bromwell, Browning, Church, Cummings, Fox, Fuller, Gamble, Goodhue, Haines ofCook,Ross, Harwood, Sedwick, l,ay, Snyder, I -.ildrup, Tincher, A'cDowell, Truesdale, 3 Iccov. Tubbs, 3.edilf,' Wagner, Moore, Waihburn, Parks, Wendlin'g, Peirce, Whiting-32. Rice, I TEAS. Goodell, Hayes, Abbott, Cameron, Sharp, Sherfll, DEBATES AN) PROCEEDINGS. n dissention at work among the free school men of the country, protestant or free thinker, that when the dissentions have arisen, when the work is wrought out, L they may do what they have said shall be done-declare that the church is c,)mmis sioned of God to teach the people, and that the State has no right to do it. That is what is laid in store for your country, sir, and mine, and this warfare on the Bible is, in my opinion, only the flank movement of an assault on the whole scheme of education by the State. They dare not tell us to-day that the free school system is to be trampled down; they dare not as yet meet the American people and say, that that instititution which alone of all others puts the poor man'6 son and the friendless orphan child, side by side with the son of the merchant prince, the Pres ident and the Governor and the lawgiver, is to be smitten from the earth-but their warfare is to be carried on under the name of "fighting sectarianism," and we are to-day to be drawn into a snare, like that of the spider, who, sitting at the center of the web with her feet placed upon the lines which unite the countless meshes, feelingin what part of her network she has caught the unconscious fly, springs out to catch it. The web of soph. istry, and I will add, of falsity, is woven to-day, in which to catch the American people on a question which belongs to the very first principle of any liberty, of any civilization. Let the gentleman last on the floor take all the civilization he can refer to, all the nations, beginning with China, through Asia, Europe, Africa and America, or anywhere on earth, and he will find the Bible the cornerstone of every civilization, and of all the liberty worth a straw. Mr. UNDERWOOD. I said that very thing. That wherever the Bible is or has been most, the highest degree of liberty and civilization abounds and has abounded. Mr. BROMWELL. And yet the gentleman is willing to stand in this Convention as a representative of our people, and vote to place a badge of contempt on that very book, which he would not on the diversions of Purley or the dramas of Shakspeare, or any other creditable work of any English or American author, which may be used as a text book in the public schools. Mr. UNDERWOOD. I hope the gentleman is not trying to misrepresent me. [Here the hammer fell.] ["Go on,7 "A on."] The PRESID:ENT, pro teinpore (Mr. Hayes in the chair). The gentleman from Coles [Mir. Bromwell] will proceed, if no objection is made. ~ir. UNDERWOOD. Mr. President: The gentleman, I do not believe, wishes to misrepresent me, but the objection I urged was that the catholic and other portions of the schools would leave the Schools and break them up, if we require ed by law, the use of the Bible in all our common schools. Mr. BROMWELL. That is precisely where, it seems to met the illusion rests. To read from a text book, is one thing; to have somebody publish a dissertation upon it is another thing. The gentleman says to read the ten com~mandments in the schools, is to banish from them certain classes of pevopl6 they are right, all the powers of earth and hell cannot destroy them. Let the idea prevail that we mean to force thei protestant bible into our public schools against the will of the people, and it will be an apple of discord, and instead of cultivating the genial, and better, and nobler, and higher sentiments taught in that book which is brought in here today, it will be charged that we are behind the age, and that we have adopted those narrow, bigoted, distract ed notions spoken of by my colleague [Mr. Snyder] which existed in a semi-barbarous age, when man took his brother man by the throat for daring to entertain different views on religious subjects. Suchbigotry darkened our own country, in an early age, but has departed, I hope, forever. Let us be consistent and logical. Government being made for all let us keep our schools for all, and deal out equal and exact justice to all-allowing no sect to have control of our schools-no particular books to be forced in them, as an apple of discord to divide the school. Church and State must be kept separate. Leave religion to its own intrinsic merits, for it is strong and invincible. Leave the schools af they always have been. Protect all in religious freedom. Let parents who believe in the Bible teach it to their children, and their children's chrildren. Let them teach it as theyv choose, let it be taught in the Sabbath schools, let it be taught in their churches, and in their theological seminaries, and its doctrines will prevail and become universal, for it is eternal truth, addressed to the free consciences of all men. Mr. BROMWELL. Mr. President: I do not think that the Convention ought to be in a hurry to get away from this question. If there is one question, fundamental and primary, on the face of the earth, that lies at the foundation of our civilization, it is this question of excluding the Bible from the public schools. The gentleman last upon the floor [Mr. Underwood] may tell us of the glorious Constitution of this country, and the great civil rights guaranteed to all our young men. Let him point to a land where the Bible has not been made the corner stone, and show the civilization and Constitution prevailing there. I am astonished to learn that it is sectarian in this country to read the ten commandments and the sermon on the mount. I am astonished, coming in as I have within the last five minutes, not knowing the subject before the Convention, to learn that the Bible cannot be a text book in America; that the words of Elijah and St. John are to be stamped with the badge of contempt here in an assembly of the people, consulting on first principles. I do feel as I speak, sir. If there be a question which is to-day touching the very core of civil and religious liberty, it is this warfare made lnow in the name and under the cover of fighting the Bible as a sectarian book; but really, sir, to cut under and sap and wholly smite down the free school itself. For that purpose, an alliance has been formed, and the voice of the Ecumenical Council can be heard in the coalition, where men who claim the Lord Jehovah as the God of all the earth, and boast of being the church of God in the whole earth, lock hands with atheists wherever they can be found, and work together, though deadly enemies, to set MAY 7, 1870. 1751 nation of the principles contained in that book. I firmly believe in a superintend ing Providence, that will work out in the future a higher, nobler and more glorious destiny for mankind. I have not a shadow of doubt that all will work to gether for good. God rules. As the great Shakspeare said: There is a Divinity who shapes our ends, Rough hew them as we will. The wise man has said there is a time and a season for all things. And there is a place for all thinb s. Where is the proper place to inculcate the lessons of the Bible? Unquestionably in the fami ly, in the Sabbath school, in the church and in the theological seminary. Is the common school the place to inculcate the doctrines of the Bible? No, sir. The unfledged teacher would mislead our children. The common school is a crea ture of the State. The State is made for everybody-protestant, catholic, jew, infidel. In our bill of rights, we have guaranteed to every one religious liberty. In a section already adopted, we have provided by the fundamental law of the -land, that no church or religious sect shall control these common schools, which are established for the children of our people. Shall we require by law that in all cases the Bible shall be used in every common school in the State? The jew would insist upon the Old Testament alone, the catholic would insist upon the Douay bible, the protestant would insist upon King James' versionother classes would object, who are entitled, under our government, to exactly the same rights as any other. tFhis must be left to each school, and the sound discretion of school directors, as it always has been in Illinois. My opinions of religious liberty are these: while I am responsible to no man, but to Almighty God, for my religion, no man is responsible to me, and I have no right to call in question any man for any opinions which he may entertain upon these subjects. No one is convinced by abuse or force. These rights of conscience are sacred, and ought to be held sacred. What would be the effect in some schools? In the county where I reside, as no doubt in many parts of the State, we have at present a most noble system of free schools. They are in a flourishing condition, Sand the result of many years of labor of the friends of education. These schools are patronized by protestant, catholics, Jews and rationalists. We all feel that it is "our" school, —not a catholic, or a protestant, or a rationalist school, but everybody's school, —free and equal for all, under a government which guarantees to us equal rights. They are prosperous, progressive, doing an imm~ense amount of good, and send out into the world a class of young men and women wvith progressive ideas, advanced notions, that dare freely to think and to act well their part in the solemn drama of life. If the time ever comes that any church in this country is so fearful of its own notions, as to call upon the strong arm of the law to support it, in forcing its opinions upon others against their will and convictions, that sect will not have much faith in the truth of its doctrines. In the words of Jefterson: " Errors of opinion -may be tolerated, if truth is left free to combat them." If its notions on any particular topic are Wrong, they will sink~if 1q52~~~~~~ ('-TTTOA COY-IX A~DY willing to see the firsts principles of virtue driven out, say it to day. If we are willing to yield to the machinations which are digging at the very foundations of our common schools, let us say it now ourselves, and not leave it to committees to say. I want no committee on this question. I am for the Bible, I am for its not being excluded, and so long as I have a voice or an arm to prevent that exclu sion, no man or body of men shall place it under check or ban. Mr. BROWNING. Mr. President: This is a question which, as the gentleiman from Coles [Mr. Bromwell] remarks, is to be met at some time or place. There is no escaping it, and we may just as well meet it now. It is not a question, in my apprehension, of forcing the bible into the hands of those who are unwilling to receive it. It is, on the other hand, a question of coercively witholding it from those who desire to have it. I do not understand the proposition to be one to impose the bible upon the common schools, and compel them to use it, against the wishes of those who maintain the school. But as I understand from the course of the arguments upon the subject, it looks to the actual exclusion of that book from the schools. Now, this ought to be left to the people who are interested in it. Mr. UNDERWOOD. Mr. President: It is proposed not to interfere with it in those districts where it is used at all; but to leave it, in all cases, to the school districts, as heretofore. Mr. BROWNING. The misfortune, Mr. President, is, that as the question has been introduced here, and arguments have been made, looking to the exclusion of the Bible from the schools, it will, in its present attitude, if the Convention shall vote down the proposition, be rehgarded as an indorsement by the Convention of the doctrine that the Bible is to be excluded by law from the schools, even where the people directly interested may desire that it shall be introduced. Now, in hundreds of the school districts of this State, every family in the district, without an exception, will desire the Bible to be used in the school. Shall not the people have the privilege of introducing it, if they want it? Again, Mr. President, we must in this ouCdcountry submit to the rule of the majoritogether. ~~~~~~ty. Suppose a large majority of a districtconeacorianmanrassa Is i notso?Readthe ork of rv-desire the Bible as one of the books for mvmn okn oad h xlso mg, he orksof ancrft,the ork ofthe use of their children in school, and a o h il rmorpbi col.M any f ou poes-Logfelow, ennyon,minority are opposed to it, who is to yield? atmt ohv hsmte eerdt Miltn, ~ Brynt-tke Sakspare im-Are the majority to relinquish their opin- omte,srn rmavr ifrn self howoftn hespeks wth he viceions, their strong convictions of religiousmoietafrmamtvofopsto of maternay wih amos th voceduty, and submit to what will be an t esr osdel ocduo u of aGod grat nd ublie tuth, wichoffense to their conscience for the grati- cnieain he brroed romthe oics o Daielfication of this minority? I apprehend I i,a o nyafin fteBbe and saia an St.Johntak outallnote~ Bult this, as all other things in abuIamwhlpehpaveypoprc thes, al tha Shkspere ad Mitonfree country, should be left to the controltiinroitprcpsanaoebe and thes cpy romther oderandof the people who are directly and im-livrithdiiiyothtbo,a gretermasers swep hatalloutas e-mediately interested. aoe eivri t nprto,ada mg sctaian wih te lie uternce of I know the Convention is impatient ofavwdavctoftabokathgra allothr geatligts f hmanty,anddelay; I am myself, and I do not intendfonainsoeuo whc retal my wrd or t, ou aveno iviizaionto go into any argumenlt, but propose this tu iiiain eiv,sr htti lefthighr thn tat o theInca ofas a substitute feor the amendment offered cut,ta l iiie onre oa Peru. ~~~~~~~by the gentlemnan from Carroll [Mr. Wag-owmoeothiprgesmoeothi is t coe, nd s nw a th dor. his The General Assembly shall pass no lawdaeno;Ib]ivthtteatanth Convntio owe it o itelf nd t theprohibiting the use of the Bible in schools in sinisoemr fta ihclia county, tociviiz~i~ andto Go, tothis State. in nwihw in hmt a,t h com upandsaynow t-da, i itis orAnd leave the question to be controlled sii n otegnu fta rn the ibl oragaist t. f wearefortheby the people in the several districts. If aan nolboktatoalohrcue Bibl, weare or te trth; f wearemajority in any school district are opposed cmie.I stebo falbos ngaist t a setaran i it iniuece,to the use of the Bible in their schools,Tetdnlec rew netdfrmc I f s t 8 8 e n y 8 I e t s f t e t e e e e n f e 9 y y n CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION SATURDAYY 1752 let them act in accordance with their own, convictions,of duty. Give the people. the power in every little municipality in, the State to control, in their own way, their own affairs, temporal and spiritual, just as they please. Let every one learn, the lesson, that in this country Nfe must. yield our own wishes to the superior willof the majority; that when we become,, voluntarily, members of any community,. we do so upon the implied, if not expressed, condition that we are willing to, submit to the rule of the majority of that, community. And now, sir, in compliance with the promise I made to the gentleman from Shelby [Mr. Wendling], I renew the call for the previous question, and leave it under his control. Mr. WENDLING. Mr. President: I will ask to have that motion withdrawn for a moment. Mr. BROWNING. It is under your Own control, and is withdrawn. Mr. WENDLING. Mr. President The PRESIDENT, pro tempore (Mr. Hayes in the chair). Will the gentleman from Carroll [Mr. Wagner] so modify his motioia as to make his proposition an ad. ditional section or amendment? Mr. WAGNER. I will. Mr. PARKS. Mr. President: This matter of the Bible in common schools, is now before this Convention, and must be disposed of. But, we have mixed with it, the question of whether the county superintendent shall be a constitutional officer or not. Let us first dispose of that. Then let us dispose of this Bible question. My friend from Carroll [.Mr. Wagner] made his motion, of course, in, order to prevent the article being referred to the Committee on Revision and Adjustment before he got in his amendment. But now it is before us, let us dispose of the county superintendent first,. Mr. WAGNER. M —. President: With that explanation-with the understanding that my additional section or amendment as it stands now, will be in order after the Convention shall have acted upon that section, I will consent to that modification; but I shall not withdraw it and take the chance of introducing it again. Mr. WENDLING. If I know my own feelings, Mr. President, I would be the last erson to rise here or else ere t upon the ground that some teachers may give a gloss, or something of the like, up-t on it. The proposition is not to authorize commentaries in the public schools; but that the bare reading of the Holy Bible as a text book in the schools shall not be put down by law. I cill upon this Convention, representing the civilization, the freedom, the honor, and I will say, the religion of Illinois, whether Catholic or Jew, Presbyterian or Methodist, or whether, like myself, belonging to none of these, I call upon those who stand here recognizing the freedom of this country, and the source from whence we have drawn those principles which inspire our Constitution and laws, to speak and say if they are willing to admit that the only boo!-, in the world which may not be barely read in the hearing of the youth of America, is the Holy Bible. Sir, what other book can escape then? There is not another book of any value upon the face of the earth but what con tains more than the Bible of the very matters these gentlemen profess to av(,id. Do they not all contain exemplifications of. virtue and morals? Can we read a history of any country that does not express the sentiments of the writers? If we teach virtue, if we teach manliness, if we teach truth, if we teach a boy that which he is to do to make him a man, to honor almigbtv God, do justly and love mercy, walk upril_,htlv before God and man, must we not teach him from the text-books which enjoin those principles? But what would such a school be, which the gentleman would set up, with out attempting to teach virtue, without attempting to teach any reverence for the divine? It would not be worthy of the barren civilization of Greece or Rome. There is no civilization worthy the name where the teachings of that book, which are truth, virtue, manliness, hon or, and more especially reverence for the divine, are not made primary. Throw away this last, and there is no sanction to the oath we adm; nister in the forum of justice: there is nothing binding in the Constitution we frame to-day, nothing in the oaths we provide to be taken by the officers we create, from which many hope and expect such good effects-in short, no sanction nor ligament by which onstitution is made sacred or bound DEBATES AND PROCEEDIiNGS. t. tleman from Montgomery [Mr. Rice] e probably, in phraseology, meets what I ,f desired to offer. I will now call for the y reading of the amendment offered by the - gentleman from Carroll [Mr. Wagner], to e see whether the words I have drawn will e not be fitting and applicable. I call for s the reading of the amendment of the gen1 ttleman from Carroll [Mtir. Wagner], y as it will read with my amendment. e The Secretary read the amendment ofd fered by Mr. Wagner, as proposed to be f amended by Mr. Church, as follows: The bible shall never be excluded from, nor s its use compelled in the common schools in d this State, nor shall sectarian doctrines be taught therein. Mr. WELLS. Mr. President: I move eto add, after the words "common schools," the words "General Assembly of the State - of Illinois." The PRESIDENT, pro tenmpore (Mr. r Hayes in the chair). The proposition of the gentleman from McHenry [MNr. Church] is not strictly in order, because the motion before the Convention is to . refer with existing amendments. ; Mr WENDLING. Mr. President: I believe the proposition submitted by the gentleman from McHenry [Mr. Church] , will be concurred in by the Convention, ; and I withdraw that motion. Mr. RICE. Mr. President: Wouldit be in order to offer a substitute? The PRESIDENT, pro tempore (Mr. Hayes in the chair). The Chair is of the opinion it would not be in order. 3Ir. RICE. Would it be in order to offer a proposition as an amendment, which might take the place of those of fered? The PRESIDENT, pro tempore (Mr. Hayes in the chair). The Chair is in clined to think not. It is in order to amend the amendment. A substitute for the amendment would be in the third degree. Mr. RICE. By permission, I will read what I propose to offer as a substitute for all the propositions. I- think it will bet ter suit the views of the Convention. The Secretary read the substitute of fered by Mr. Rice, as follows: The General Assembly shall never pass any law excluding the Bible from the com mon schools of this State, or requiring the same to be introduced or used in the same. Mr. RICE. I propose to offer this as a substitute, when a proper time comes, for all the pending propositions now before the Convention. Mr. BRO3/WELL. I would suggest an amendment, which would be proper, I think —that the Legislature shall never pass any law, or sanction the passage by boards or otherwise. Mr. CHURCH. The amendment is not in order; but I would not insist on that, were it not that the amcendmlenlt offered by the gentlemnan from Carroll [M/r. Wagner], as amended lay myself, embodies the same principle which the gentleman now offers in the sulbstitute. Mr. WTAGNER. I cannot accept the amendment. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore (Mfr. Hayes in the chair). Thlen the amendment of the gentleman from McHenry [Mr. Church] is not order. There is an amendment proposed by the gentleman frome Adams [Mr. Browning]. Mr. CHURCH. I offer mine as an amendment to the amendment offered by the gentleman from Carroll [Mr. 5~aig brought directly upon this Conventio - If we adopt the section re quiring to Bible, or even i ntimate that it is one the school books of this State, we arre I hundreds of thousands against the Co s stitutioll-but I presume it is one of tl 3 question s th at must sooner or later cola before the people of Illinois, and if it hn yto come before th e people, it might as we come now. I shall not shrink from my dut erepresenting a people whose God is ta Lord, in whom they trust, in who se wor they believe, and to whose promises the cling. cMr. CAMERON. W hat objection ho the gentleman to the substitute offere by the gentleman from Adams [MI Browning]? Mr. TINCHER. I did not hear th substitute read. p The Secretary read the substitute offe] ed by Mr. Browning, as follows: The General Assembly shall pass no law prohibiting the use of the Bible in the school of this State. Mr. CHURCH. With the permissio of the gentleman from Vermilion [M! TincherJ, if I may be allowed to sugg es one word with reference to the amend riwent of the gentleman from Adams [Mr Browning], it possibly may bring us t the same conclusion, that a law shall no be enacted excluding the Bible from schools or compelling its use in schools It seems to me we can meet upon a comr mon platform there. Mr. TINCHER. I like the amendmen proposed by the gentleman from M ncHenri [Mr. Church]. I think it will probably meet the wishes of the Convention, but must say now, as I have committed my self upon this subject, that I have no whitewashing further upon the question I have sought to avoid, as before stated this very exciting question, and have sought to keep it out of the Convention but it has been forced upon us, and ] propose that we make a direct issue upon it. I am in favor of the Bible. I am in favor of it being read everywhere, but do not want to compel anybody to read it if they do not want to. With these re. marks I think I am square upon the record in favor of the Bible and religion. Mr. CHURCH. Mr. President: I should not believe myself discharging my duty to my constituents did I enter into a general discussion of the question in its religious aspect, and add to the intense excitement prevailing here. I will yield to no gentleman in the re gard and veneration I have for the doctrines of that sacred book. I consider it the basis on which rests all true faith and morality. I will yield to no gentleman in this Convention, in an earnest desire to frame an organic law that will meet the -wants of the State, and receive the approval of its people. In the framing of the bill of rights, the committee on that subject sought to so frame it, that there shouldebe the utmost liberty of conscience to every individual in this State on all religious matters. Now, sir, taken in the abstract, the amendment offered by the gentleman from Carroll [Mr. Wagner] is not anything that any gentleman can reasonably object to, if not liable to misconstruction; but, unless taken in connection with the understanding that the Bible is'not to be forced upon the conscience of any per.son, the amendment offered by the gen that is noble and good and pure in ou legislation, in our progress and in our civ ilization. But, sir, while I am a friend of the Bible, and while I would not now, and never will cast a vote to drive it from ou public schools, yet, sir, I believe that thi, question has come Ulpon us so suddenl~ here to-day, that the Convention is un prepared to act upon it. Stop a moment gentlemen, and see how intense is the ex citement under which you are now la boring. This question has been before us for the short space of only two hours, and yet it has wrought up more feeling, cre ated more excitement and thrown more consternation among the members of this body than any question that has been dis cussed during the five months of our ses sion. I insist, sir, that we are not now prepared to act upon it. It is a question not only important in itself, but a ques tion involving the very existence of the Constitution that we are now framing. It is a question which will call into play more prejudice and create more feeling and excitement than any other question that could be brought before us. I make these remarks simply as preliminary to a motion which I will now make. I move, sir, that these amendments be referred to the Committee on Education. I make that motion in order that that committee may take it under advisement, and report sonie article embodying the idea of the mover. And, sir, I suppose that the Committee on Education in considering that will also consider whether or not we have been elected on this issue; whether the people demand any action upon the question, and further, whether the Legislature can, without any constitutional provision, act in the matter in such a mlanner as will reflect the sentiments of the peo. ple, after the people have given it their attention. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore (Mlr. Hayes in the chair). Does the gentleman from Carroll [Mr. Wagner] change the character of his motion, and make it a motion to add to the section, in the place of striking out and inserting? Mr. WAGNER. If I can have my motion in that shape, so that it will not require a renewal of it, I am willing. Mr. TINCHER. Mr. President: In relation to the request of the gentleman from Carroll [M~r. Wagner], I would state that I have sought to avoid the issue. I have desired, if possible, to leave this Constitution free upon this question. I have not desired to see a direct issue made upon the question, as to whether the Bible should be or should not be read in the common schools; but as the question has been directly brought before the Convention, I.am not only willing but anxious to vote upon it. I am prepared to vote squarely vupon the issue, and if it need be] to say more, that the Bible shall never be excluded from a school-house in Illinois. I regret exceedingly that the question has been put in such a shape as to compel us to meet it squarely, for I do not desire to array the people who are opposed to the Bible against the Constitultion; but if the fight is to be made in Illinois, either for or against the Bible, I say let it be made at once, and let us meet the issue like men. I admit that I have made all the ingenious3 motions that I could command or conceive of, to avoid this matter be'uw 439 MAY 7, 1870. 1753 1q54 CONSTITUTIONAL COYITION SATURDAY, ing as near nothing, so far as their practical effect upon our school system goes, as it is possible for words to say nothing. One of them provides that the Legislature shall pass no law forbidding the use of the Bible in the schools, and the other says, the Legislature shall not pass a law excluding the Bible nor commanding the use of it in the schools. Sir, the Legislature will pass no law forbidding the use of the Bible in the schools, whether we say anything about it or not. The love of the Bible is too deeply and strongly implanted ill the hearts of the protestant people of this country. Such a question is not a practical one before this Convention. The true question before us is whether any provision will not array a great body of people against the Constitution, whether orthodox or not orthodox, and defeat it. The gentleman from Coles [Mr. Brornwell] made a very earnest speech here on behalf of the religion of the Bible, yet, he went on to tell us that he was nota religious man at all. Does it become a man, who is not a religious man, who does not teach religion in his family, does not practice it himself, does not teach it in the church or ill any of the many places, public or private, where it ought to be taught-does it become a man of that character to come before this Convention and say that book shall be forced upon a political Convention and be incorporated in a political Constitution? We are here as representatives of no one sect, nor of all the sects in the State combined. We are here r-;presenting the civil and political element of the people of the State of Illinois, and I deny that we have any right to abdicate the authority we get from the people to represent them in that capacity, and in that capacity alone. The attempt to force our views upon the people, if it has any effect at all, will be, virtually, a violation of that article we have all put into the Constitution, in which we guarantee absolute, unconditional religious freedom to every man, woman and child of any race, and every nation, and every tongue in the whole State of Illinois. Sir, the policy which originated with the committee, and upon which no change has beeL made, is, in my judgment, the true policy for the Convention-to say nothing in the Constitution on the subject. How can our silence on this subject do any harm? In my judgment, it will amount to nothing in its effects on the system of education as it will be hereafter conducted in this State. The schools will go on all right as heretofore; but the amendment proposed here will amount, if adopted, to arraying a powerful opposi tion to this Constitution. As I said be fore, let any one portion of this State be lieve that anything, directly or indirect ly, is intended against their religious liberty in the schools, or out of the schools, and that Constitution will go out of this hall, as John Randolph said of the Constitution of Virginia, with the "sar donic grin of death" upon its counte nanlce. oNow, under these circumstances, what. is it prudent for us to do? Why, sir, three different times this Convention has decided differently on the question of fe male suffrage. Twice it has changed its action upon other subjects of importance. It does not look very well for us to be CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION .SATURDAY, 1754: ner]; and I now itove the previous ques tion. Mr. PARKS. I do not want to speak; but I wish to make a suggestion to the Convention. The PRESIDENT, pro tempor6 (Mr. Hayes in the chair). The gentleman from Logan [Tvir. Parks] desires to speak but it is out of order, the previous ques tion Iiavin g been moved. Mr. PARKS. I am chairman of the Committee on Education, and as this is a very important matter, I would like to make a suggestion to the Convention. Mr. CHURCH. I will withdraw the motion for the previous question, if the _gedtleman will renew it. Air. PARKS. Yes, sir. There has beer. no question before thi.s Convention of more it-nportance than this, and perhaps no ae of so niuch. There is no more delicate question for this Convention to handle, and it was for this reason the Comniittee on Education, after consulting about the matter, deliberately came to the conclu sioii that it was better to say nothidg, about it in the Constitution-better for the whole people of this State, and bet ter for the Constitution itself. They did not expect that their non action would be construed by anybody as proceeding from hostility to the Bible, or to a want of reverence-, for the kuth(,r of the Bible, and consequently so far as discussion in this Convention has taken that shape and direction, it has done in justice to every man on that committee. My friend from Woodford [Mr. Bayne], for whom I have great, regar d, and who spoke of me in terms of high personal consideration, said something about the chai.r-nau of the Committee on Education, which, in my opinion, is calculated to make an impression among the people of the State that I myself am not friendly to the use of the Bible in the common schot,,Is of this country. Sir, my ancestors, three hundred years ago, crossed the Atlantic and settled upon the then wild shores of New England, OD accountof their devotion to the Bible and the God of the Bible. That man to whom I am indebted for whatever good there is in me. if there be anything good, taught me in my childhood that in the Bible, and in the Bible alone,were the elements of all that was good in society, thus changing our opinionsand changing our action upon great questions in the face of the people of this State, and of the whole world. When this question has been sprung upon us so suddenly, in the face of strong feE-,Iing, and under appeals to our religious education and religious sentimeri t- Ah, sir!. and to our fear of the religious people of the Stateif under the influence of appeals of that sort, we act hastily, how do we know but we sliall need to change our opinions and ()ur actions, and stultify ourselves in the face of the civilized world? As my friend from Shelby [Mr. Wendlidg] remarked, the prudent thing to do this evening is to do just nothing at all, but wait until Monday or Tuesday, think about this matter, sleep on it, and come to a cool, deliberate judgment and determination. Although yet my opinion is unchanged, if the Convention deliberately and. coolly, and upon reflection, decide to put anything in this Constitution on the subject of the Bible in schools, I will agree with them, sir, if I can; and if I cannot, then with a full sense of my own responsibility to my own sense of right, to the people who sent me here, and to the God of the Bible, I will hold fast my integrity, and vote as my judgment and conscience dictate. The PRESIDENT pro tenipore (Mr. Hayes in the chair). Does the gentleman from Logan [Mr. Parks] renew the motion for the previous question? Mr. PARKS. Am I bound to do it? Mr. CHURCH. I so understand it. Mr. PARKS. If I promised to do it of course I will, but I am as well persuaded as I live that we had better take no action on this subject this evening. Mr. CROSS. Mr. President: I move to refer the whole matter to the Committee on Education, and on that I move the previous question. Mr. SPRINGER. Mr. President The PRESIDENT, pro tempoi-e (Mr. ,Hayes in the chair). The pending qties - tiods are as follows: The section being under consideration, the gentleman from Carroll [Mr. Wagner] moved to amend by adding certain words. For that the gentleman from Adams [Mr. BroWDiDg] moved a substitute. The Lrentleman from McHenry [Mr. Church] moved to amend YEA-S. Eldredge, Rice, Ellis, p Ross, Abbott, Anderson, MAY 1870. DEBATES A1) i'ROCEEJ)IGS. 1755 printed th second edition, was also made a martyr, and when it first appeared in En gland, by a proclamation of the Pope, it was excluded from the English domains. Mr. SNYDER. Does the gentleman say that Guttenburg and Caxton were martyrs? Mr. ANTHONY. I am not talking about the original inventors of the art of printing. But the first application of the art of printing was to the bible. When it was first printed and circulated in the English language, it exerted more intfluence than any other book that ever appeared, in the history of the world. Literature and the arts received a new impetus, and the world passed from darkness to light. The man who first translated it from the Latin vulgate in the Ernglish language was Wickliffe, in the year 1380. He, too, was hunted down, and after his body had lain in the church of Lutterworth for twenty years, it was taken out and cast into the sea. Every one who knows the history of that, recollects that The Avon to the Severn runs, The Severn to the sea; And Wickliffe's dust shall spread abroad, Wide as the waters be. The history of the Bible is one of the most interesting things that presents itself to the mind of a scholar or any reflectiing man. When it first appeared, the bishop of London bought up, as was supposed, every copy, and burned them; but he was nmistaken, and only furnished the means to print and put in circulation another edition. Then old Miles Copperdale appeared upon the stage, and brought out his edition. Now it was banished under the pains and penalties of death, and now it was allowed to be read under certain restrictions. Then we come down to the King James edition. To revise that edition, King James selected forty-seven of the most learned men in England, of whom the gentleman [Mr. Snyder] has said that not one of them understood a particle of Hebrew. It may be they did not understand Hebrew, but they understood the Greek and Latin languages almost to -perfection; and I will say to the gentleman that their translation has been investigated by the most eminent scholars of the world, and that upon comparison with the old Hebrew, it is found not to vary in any substantial manner. The introduction of the printed Bible into England did more fbr the advancement of letters and to spread light and knowledge through the world, than anything else recorded since the birth of the Saviour. Mr. SNYDER. The old Hebrew does not exist. Mr. ANTHONY. The first five books of the Old Testament were in Hebrew, and some portion of the other books were in Chaldee. Mr. SNYDER. The Hebrew character was changed one hundred years before Christ. Mr. ANTHONY. The old Hebrew characters were, perhaps, modified by the Chaldeans when the Jews were taken into captivity, but the change was not great. The Samarian Pentateuch will show the difference, and it will not amount to much. I am familiar with that point. Cameron, Forman, Snyder, Cary, Goodhue, Sutherland, Church, Hay, Truesdale, Cody, Hayes, Wendling, Craig, Madill, Wheaton, Cross, Neece, Wilson Cummings, Parker, Wright-27. NAYS. Anthony, Hildrup, Springer, Bayne, McCoy, Tincher, Bromwell, McDowell, Tubbs, Browning, Merriam, Underwood, Fox, Moore, Wagner, Fuller, Parks, Wait, Gamble, Perley, Washburn, Goodell, Peirce, Wells, Haines,of CookSedgwick, Whiting-29. Harwood, Sherrill, ABSENT, OR NOT VOTING. Allen, of Alx. Coolbaugh, Poage, AllenofCwf'd, Dement, Robinson, Archer, English, Scholfield, Atkins, Haines of L'ke,Sharp, Benjamin, Hankins, Skinner, Bowman, Hanna, Turner, Brown, Hart, Vandeventer, Bryan, King, Wall, Buxton, Pillsbury, Mr. President-27. So the motion of Mr. Cross for the previous question was not agreed to. Mr. ANTHONY. Mr. President: I have no desire to detain the Convention by making a speech upon this subject. I was opposed to ordering the previous question, because I thought that several premeditated and prepared speeches had been made here, which in their spirit were not in accord with at least my views, or, as I believe, with the general sentiment of the people of this State in regard to this subject. There was much in the remarks of the gentleman from Logan [Mr. Parks] that I indorse. I believe that for the last few days, we have at times been acting in a state of so high excitement, that a man might as well undertake to wrestle with a malaria as to attempt to control the tendencies of the Convention. This subject which has been brought in so suddenly, is of vast importance, and of of as great concern as any other subject yet broached. What is the question, let me ask? The gentleman from St. Clair [Mr. Snyder], in an elaborate speech this morning, went on to show, as I understood him, that the State of Illinois should not have anything to do with this question, in any way, shape or manner. He advo. cared a system —as I understood him —a system of materialism, or something very much akin to it. This subject relates to the Bible. Let us speak for one moment as to what that book is, that we call the Bible, and what is its history. It is the oldest book in the world: its history can be traced for more than two thousand years: it dates back to the dawn of civilization. Although the Old Testament was originally written in the Hebrew language, it was, together with the New Testament, at a very early day translated into the Greek language, and then into the Latin, and to-day is printed and published in every tongue. N~ow, how long has this book been in the possession of the civilized world? But little over three hundred years has it been in print in the English language. The first printed book in all the world was, I believe, a few leaves of the Psalter, but the next was'the Bible. The first application of printing was to publishing the Bible, and the first man~ who translated and published it was hunted down and muade a martyr. John Rogers, adao I DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1755 AIAY 1, 1870. Air. SNYDER. So am 1. Mr. ANTHONY. I wish to speak of another thing. The gentleman from St. Clair [inir. Snyder] has stood up here on several occa,ioi)s, and, in labored and elaborate speeches, has arraigned the whole religious sentiment of the whole State, pleading, if I understood him correctly, for nothing but barbarism. In his judgmeiit, even the education of the masses was of doubtful utility. Mr. SNYDER. Not exactly. [Here the hammer fell]. ["Go on."] Mr. ANTHONY. Now, sir, what is our history? When our ancestors were driven out of EDgland tl)ey went to Holland and into exile, and leavid-g that country for this, spanned the Atlantic with their prayers. They came to this country and settled upon a bleak and barren coast. Before tliev landed they sent up a prayer to Almiglitv God, and drew up a f(;rm of government upon which this very government is based. When, in 1787, the State of Virginia deeded to this western territory the territory upo,'i which we are i ssembled to -day, what did the congress of the United States do? They put into that ordinance the following ladguage: ARTICLE III. Rellz!oD, morality and knowledge being essential to good government and the ha' ness of man kind, schools and the means of education shall for,,ver be encouraged. Now, ]Nlr. President, let -Lis obey that iDjunCtiOD, and let us encourage religion, morality, knowledge and good govern. ment. The prop s,' tion to exclude the -'Bible," (,excludes all Bibles-tlie "Douay," "KiDg James," and all others. The "Douay edition," which has been spoken of, was published in 1609, at Douay, France. It d'.,ffers in but few particulars from our King James edition. Its style is quaint, but in the Pentateuch it has but a few heretical passages, and if it were not for its including the Apocryphal books, would pass for a good translation. But why is this book referred to, and why do we want to use it in the common schools of this -country? It is because it idculeates the great and eternal principles of niorality and religion. What are we asserting here, to-day? We are as CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION the subject. I had hoped that we would not be compelled to consider it in connection with the Constitution. But, inasmuch as it is upon us, and as we must act upon one side or the other of this question, or pursue a course between the two, whereby we may guarantee equal rights and privileges to all parties concerned, I am prepared to act with deliberate judgment. If we refuse to meet the issue squarely, we say by such refusal that the Bible may be excluded from the common schools. I am not prepared to make that declaration. By adopting the amendment proposed by the gentleman from Carroll [Mr.Wagner] we only say this much: that there shall be no law passed by the General Assembly of this State prohibiting the introduction of the Bible into the common schools. The amendment does not propose to force the Bible into the schools as a textbook, or otherwise, nor to compel any person to receive, read or adopt its teachings, but it does particularly prohibit the teaching of any sectarian doctrines. Under this amendment the Bible may be taken into the schools, or left out of them, as the people in each school district, or the patrons of any school, may think best. Nwo advantage is given to those who desire the introduction of the Bible into our schools, and no benefit is taken from those who oppose that policy, but it-is declared that the strong arm of the law shall not interpose its power and strike down one party, while it fosters and builds up the other. If the patronage of the State cannot be extended to the friends of the Bible, it shall not, with my consent, be employed for their confusion and overthrow, by placing them in the unrestrained power and at the mercy of their enemies. I admit that heretofore there has been no apparent necessity for this constitutional provision; but as an effort has been so recently made to strike down Lthe Bible in schools, it is not acting in bad faith or dealing unjustly with any one, to prevent such an unwarranted aggression being made in the future upon the rights and privileges of any class of our citizens. By this. amendment we say that all parties have equal rights and privileges in religious teachings. I hold that, in justice to ourselves, with respect to the civilization of the age, with a becoming regard for the great Christian sentiment of this State, we cannot do less. If we adopt this amendment, we do not thrust the Bible into the schools. It will not be put there unless those who control a school see proper to take it there. And if they decide that they want it, that its doctrines, without comment, should be held up to the youth of the country, as a rule of action and a "lamp to their feet,") shall we, by legal enactment or organic restriction, deprive them of this high and sacred privilege? Shall we, by law, brand and condemn this book as we brand no others? Shall we say that the doors of learning in Illinois shall be forever closed against the great beacon light of c hristianity-the foundation stone of our civilization e When I am called upon to express my opinion in regard to, or help decide these great questions, I find no time to hesitate in declaration or action, and my actions SATURDAY, 1756 from our schools? At one time the man who possessed it was worth a fortune, and if be could read it, was entitled to the benefit of clergy. This matter, as has been stated, has been sprung on us suddenly to-day. Those advocating the other side, with the exception of one or two gentleman, came into the Convention prepared with elaborate speeches to make the attack, as it seemed to me, on the whole Christian civilization of our State. The matter has co,..me up suddenly, but as it has come, I will meet it as I would meet anything else, and if it be the judgment of this Convention to put that provision in the Constitution of the State of Ill;.nois, I am willing, after we have closed our labors, to go forth to the people of the State, and before my constituents and justify our action. Why, sir, Luther revolutionized the world with the Bible, when he took it in his hand and marched forth declaring that if there were as many devils in his way as there were tiles upon the housetops, he would go to Worms and nail up his sentiments on the church door. Sir, he had in his hand the Latin vulgate: he took that with him, and it was from that book he preached the truth, in such thunder tones as to awake a slumbering world. I have now said enough to vindicate my own position. I rose, Mr. President, more to make an explanation in vindication of my vote, than anything else, because my own views, like those of the gentleman from St. Clair [Mr. Underwood], have long been matured on this subject. I agree with him most distinctly, that the people of Illinois-a State of 2,500,000, but which will yet have 10,000,000-will not be satisfied if we cower and flee away. Our forefathers would rise from their graves and rebuke us. I am for toleration, religious and political. I think that we have already laid down a broad platform in our bill of rights, and I do not desire to do adythino, to restrain any one in the exercise of his rights of conscience or private judgment. I I am for a free bible and free schools. I am for doing complete and ample j usVce to all; but we must uot forget that we are engaged in a great work. We are the ambassadors of the people, if not of shall conform to my words. Sir, if the time should ever come in the history of our State-I hope it never will comewhen a power shall spring up and seize the reins of government, and should say the Bible must be excluded from the public schools, I would have the Constitution of this State stand between that power and the people, and forbid the consummation of such a fearful plot against the most sacred privileges of freedom, and against the inherent and inalienable rights of a Christian people. I would not have the peculiar doctrines of any sectarian denomination taughtlin our common schools. Let all have equal opportunities for education, and equal protection against any invasion of these privileges. There never has been an effort made un -der the authority of our government to prevent any man, or any association of men, from worshiping the Gcd of their fathers, according to the dictates of their own consciences. That time never will come, while enlightened protestantism controls the government of the State. The. principle of religous toleration mentioned by the gentleman from Logan [Alr. Parks], which is incorporated in and made a part of our bill of rights, is guaranteed to all. If this amendment excluded any version of the Bible except ours, or thrust the Bible we read and accept into the schools, as a text-book in the interest of any particular church, there would be some ground for opposing this amendment; but while we simply say that all classes of people, a-ad allic hrietian denominations shall stand equal before the law, no man has the right to say that we shall not guarantee the advantages of this principle to every person in this State. Mr. RICE. Mr. President: I rise, not for the purpose of entering into an argument, but, as a member of the committee who made this report, to explain my views. I have sat silent all day, listeniDg t(-' what occurred to me to be a very heated and zealous discussion pro and con. I feel that it is due to myself, to some extent, to explain my relation to the subject, and the vote I shall give. I am not, Mr. President, here to discuss the merits of the Bible, or the importance of the Christian religion in any of its various forms. It has more able, and, without .A,17.DBTSADPO)EIG.15 3 the precise attitude it is in the old , one. If these gentlemen will accept the proposition of the gentleman from Mc t Henry [Mr. Church] in a spirit of com d plomise and conciliation, we can perhaps agree. I think we ought to harmonize the , elements here, unless we expect the people to be more temperate and wise than we, before we go from this Convention. Let us, while we say that the Bible shall not be excluded by [ law from the public schools say, on the - other hand, that the Bible shall never be . introduced by law in the public schools, T or forced upon any people, but it shall be free to all according to their desires. Then we respect and do reverence to that , declaration in the bill of rights, which we have adopted in this Convention. My judgment is that if only one branch of . this proposition is adopted without the other, we will have drifted away from the spirit of that Bill of Rights; for while i we say the Legislature shall not pass a law excluding the Bible, we leave it open for the Legislature to force the Bible or any version of it, even the catholic ver i sion, if that church gains the ascendancy in this country, as some gentlemen seem to apprehend, into the public schools. The Bible is in safe hands-in the hands of a Christian people and its min isters, in its churches. It sheds its light around the family altar, and its precepts are the first lessons taught to our in fant children by a nation of ChristLan ' mothers. This Convention has no right, while forming a State Constitution, relating to civil affairs, which ought to protect the rights of all classes of people, and respect the consciences of all, to take to itself the special guardianship of religion. I be lieve that the religion of the Bible will live long after this Convention has dis persed, whether this proposition is adopt ed or not. It will not only live on, but I hope and believe will live forever, and grow purer in practice as it grows older. I believe, Mr. President, I have said about all I intended, except that I shall support the proposition offered by the gentleman from McHenry [Mr. Church]. If that proposition is defeated, I shall vote against any proposition on the sub iject, unless it is offered in the same spirit of fairness and -liberality, and I am will itg to take the responsibility of the act before God and my country. Mr. MEDILL. Mr. President: I was necessarily absent this morning, engaged on the schedule, did not hear the discus sion on this combustible subject, and un til I came here this afternoon had no dis tin ct conception of the range and scope of the debate thereon. But as I have sat listening for some hours this afternoon, I have found that I have been laboring for a time under a very grave and serious error. I had supposed from the tenor of the several speeches, that somebody had introduced a proposition here, that had been seriously entertained, to exclude, by constitutional prohibition, the Bible from the common schools of the State, and so long as that misconception had possession of my mind, my feelings were warm with a indignant hostility to it. I was disposed to vote and speak, and condemn any proposition of that discription. But as the debate progressed_ I discovered, someq what to my astonishment, that the propo. do not propose to force it into any man's hands, in any school or community, against his or their will. I have too much respect for that civil liberty which has been so earnestly referred to. I am not disposed to undertake to regulate by law the religious opinions of men, either as to the form in which they shall enjoy it, or the character of that religion. These gentlemen seem to discuss this question as if it were proposed to pass upon the merits of the Bible, as to whether it is a book entitled to be read or not. I say that is a false issue. No such ques tion has been raised by the committee. The question simply is, shall we elijoy the same freedom of opinion in this coun try, precisely in the same manner as is now secured in the present Constitution to the entire satisfaction, as I believe, of the entire people of this State? That is the question-nothing more, nothing less. And is that an attack upon the Bible, to to leave the question where we found it, in a shape that has given satisfaction to the people? My own judgment was, and is now — and I am willing to take the responsibil ity of proclaiming it-that that which is the part of wisdom and prudence is not to undertake to legislate or incorporate in the organic law anything that shall seem like dictating to any portion of the people what particular form of religion they shall have, or say by law that they shall have any at all;- for religion, to be worth anything-to be a saving religion -must be a religion of the heart and of the soul, and not a cowardly submission to pains and penalties and law, made to fetter the consciences of men. I was willing, however, Mr. President — not because I believed it-necessary-not because I believed it wise-as this ques tion was introduced and advocated by gentlemen whom I believe to be as con scientious and sincere as myself-to say, for the purpose of relieving their fears, whether real or imaginary, that in some future time the Bible might by law be excluded from the schools, to vote that it should not be excluded, if they were willing to couple with it a provision that the Legislature should not hereafter im pose the Bible, or any version of it, on persons, communities or schools that do not want it. I am willing to be fair, do justice to thuem, and yield something to their views, but I ask them to do justice themselves to the opinions of others. The proposition of the gentleman from McI~enry -[Mr. C~hurch] is, in my judg ment, correct. I am willing to support it. I had myself prepared the same proposition, in different words, which would leave thlis question in the hands of the people to do as they please with it, not to put a whip in the hands of any party with which to drive others. [I-Iere the hammer fell.] ["Gol on!'...Go on!"...All the others have."] 51Zr. RIC:E. I will get through in a few minutes, and will promise not to weary the Convention. It was the unanimous judgment of the Committee on Education, as I understood it, that it was wisest and safest, just and fair to everybody, leaving all perfect freedom in the use of the Bible, without impo.sin~g any form of religion or any version of the Bible upon an~ybody to) whom it was not acceptable, to lea~: this question in the proposed Constitutdin in~ 440 i I s IFAY 7, 18 70. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1757 sition was of a differedt and opposite character; that nobody bad proposed any thing of the kind; that no member hacl offered any amendment or any proposi tion looking like the insertion of a provi sion in our Constitution excluding the Bible from anv school, public or private, secular or religious. I discovered the propc ition before the Convention to be that the Bible shall never be excluded from the common schools in this State, when, in fact, nobody proposes to do any thing of the sort. The Convention had been lashing itself into a fine frenzy of pious anger against something that nobody here advocates or proposes. A great declamatory excitement has, on the eve of the holy Sabbath, broken loose in'the Convention, which is pre monitory of. what will pass like a huge ocean wave all over this broad State of Illinois, if we insert a provision in the Constitution that will bear the construction that the Bible shall be forced into the schools or shall be forced out of the schools. If we put into our CODqtitU tion either proposition. that the Bible must be read in every school, or it shall not be read in any school, that Constitu tion will be los, sight of in a war of sec tarian intolerance and Freethinking re,sistance, in which the good gospel of peace and religious tolerance will be trodden out of sight by excited combat ants. It will not. be a campaign in the' inter est of religion, pure and uiidc-filed. It, will let loose bad passions and arruy pro. testayits, Catholics, jews, "nothingarians," and rationalists, in a promiscuous melee against each other. True relieion Will lose, whatever side may win. Our benefi. cent free school system may be irre'para bly wounded in the very house of Its. friends. I do earnestly hope that this Conven. tion will not act hastily upon this delicate and dangerous subject. Let us take a Sabbath day's reflection on it, give time for sober second thought to assert itself, and cool reason a chance to weigh the codsequences of the adoption of the proposed amendment. Let us come back here on Monday, after our feelings. which have been unnecessarily excited, have cooled off and calmed ,down to the plane of moderation and 1758 COSTITUT1ONAL COXTIOX MoRAY, a common school book, it will array votes enough against the article in which it is placed, or against the Constitution itself, to irrevocably defeat it; and so it would also surely defeat it if the proposition were put in the other form, forbiddlndg its use in the sch(ols of the State. We are handling a very delicate question. We are dealing with 4 two-edged weapon. We are touching a proposition that we have no business with, that we are not instructed to meddle with; but if it is to be touched at all, it should be referred to the people, and we should not attempt to impose it Upon them in either form. The people of this State are not of one religious belief They do not all belong to one church, or all the churches. They do not all put the same construction upon tihe Bi!le, They do not all read the same version of the Bible. Vast numbers of them conscientiously oppose the Bible being read as a school book by irreligious or iudiffefent or sectarian teachers. My old pious meth odist father, now in heaven, lived and died in the opinion that the Bible was not a proper school book to be taught inl common schools by irreligious or irrever ent teachers or non professors of religion, and I inherit his ideas in that regard. No man living had a profounder love for the bible, and few of the laity had a profounder knowledge of it than he. Dr. Patton, the talented editor of the Advance, in Chicago, a Puritan of the Puritans, has taken strong grounds in that widely read and able orthodox paper, that the Bible is not a book that should be forced into the free schools against the wishes of the parents of a district, or even against the wishes of a minority. He contends that more harm than good is done thereby. Now, I would go as far as the most zealous and pious members on this floor to resist and oppose any proposition that would command the Legislature to ex clude the Bible from any free school. I will also go as far as any man on this floor to resist a pro position to force it by legis lating pains and penalties upon the chil i dren of unwilling parents. Suppose in a district ot one hundred families, ninety of them do not want to have the Bible used as a school book, shall we insert a provision here which may be construed to compel that ninety to have that book taught as one of the school books of their district? That would be a viola tion of the bill of rights, a violation of the rights of conscience, a violation of the inalinable rights of American citizen ship. That thing we cannot, under our oaths, permit or tolerate for a moament, and yet profess to be democratic republi cans or republican democrats. No, sir; toleration of religious opinion and of con science must remain intact. Whatever else becomes of the Constitution, there must be no union of church and State. I would therefore, repeat what I rose to say, that, this Convrention, in my judg ment, is not in a proper frame of mind to ac t prudently or wisely, pro or con, on ca proposition touching the Bible as a school book. We should now adjourna as the evening is getting late. The near approach of the Sabbath admon ishes us to leave this hall. We shall do no good by tarrying longer. Let us devote the Lord's day to a sincere and religious investigation of this grave sub ject, and come back on Monday morning I fieid nothing in it on the subject,f reading the Bible in the common schools, though it was made by ales, perhaps, as pious as we, their gratadclilde ren, are. I turn to the Constitution under which we now live-the Constitution made by o ur fa thers. I find it silent on the subjest. I turn to the Constitutions of other States of this union, beginning with Maine and ending with California, from Michigan to Texas, from the oldest to the youngest State in the union, and can find no provisions in the Constitutions of any of the thirty-seven States, or in the federal Constitution itself, that either declares or denies that the Bible shall Ibe read in public schools. In nearly all these Constitutions, I find provisions made for the promulgation of learning amongst children of the people in com mon schools, for the inculcation of religion and morality, but not a word upon the proposition which has lashed this Convention so suddenly into a storm of excitement. On that question they are judiciously and profoundly silent. Are we wiser than all of our fellow States, or holier than they? Is this Convention imbued with greater piety and holiness than both its predeces sors? Is it wiser and better than all the Conventions that have preceded it, in all the States of this wide union? What practical good to common school education is to be accomplished by putting into our Constitution any provision that will call away the attention of the people from the question we were sent- here to consider and submit to them, viz: political amendments to a political instrument. "Fools rush in where angels fear to tread." [Here the hammer fell.] ["Go on!" "Go on!"] Mr. MEDILL. If anything is to be inserted on this subject-if members feel, since this fire-braud proposition-and I must so denominate it-has been cast into this political Convention, as my friend from Vermilion [Mr. Tincher] expressed himself, "committed against their will and wishes," are compelled to take a po sition on the question, and feel forced to vote, then I think that the proposition of the gentlemnan from Carroll [Mr. Wag ner], as amended by the gentleman from McHenry [,Mr. Church], is perhaps as safe at one as can be placed before the people. As I understand, it, as thus amended, would read as follows: The Bible shall not be excluded from, nor its use be compelled in, the common sc~hools of this State, nor shall sectarian doctrines be taught therein. And if the Convention should adopt the amendment in that form, I would then propose the following: This section shall be submit~ted to a sepa rate vote of the people, in such tbrm as may be prescribed in the Schedule. I think that if we touch this question at all, the proper course to pursue is to present it to the people as a separate and independent proposition, disconnected from the body of the Constitution, dis connected from this article on education, and to let the people vote whether they will hate it incorporated in the C~onstitu tion or not. I very seriously fear, Mr. President, that if anything is put into our Constitu tion that will bear the construction, even though vaguely, of forting the Bible upon the people against their wishes, as PRAYER. Prayer was offered by the Rev. Mr. Hale, of SpriDgfield, as-bllows: Our Father who art in heaven, hallowed be Thy name, Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done on earth as it is done in heaven. We give thanks to Thee, author of our being and giver of all good, tor Thy preserving care over us during the night, and we pray Thee for Thy blessingupon the members of this body. Guide them with Thy counsel, and sustain thetm in everything right and good in the sight of the Lord. Do Trlhou in Thy great mercy lead them in all their work, and help them to accomplish it to the glory of Thy name, and to forward the best interests of the people of this State. Let the goodness of God be over them and over thei r families, in their absence from them, and in due time may they be restored to their own households, rejoicing in the goodness an' favor of God. Let Thy blessing rest upon the entire State. Let the blessing of the Lord in its various forms suited to our wants, both temporal and spiritual, be abundantly bestowed and received, and may all the people be moved by its wisdom in the direction of righteousness, truth and eternal love. Hear us, O Lord, we entreat Thee, and acce-t us for Jesus' sake. Amen. READING OF THE JOURNAL. The Secretary proceeded to read the journal of the last day's proceedings when Ml. GOODELL. Ir. President; I move that the further reading of the journal be dispensed with. The motion was agreed to. 1758 CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION MO-.TDAY) in better and calmer, and I trust wiser franie of mind than has been exhib ted this afternoon, to consider it in the light of rioht and duty, and the bUf7.iDess for wliioh we were sent here by the people. Let us act with the utmost circumspection, and reflect upon the horrible error that we may comniit if we cause a sectarian warfare in this State, tOUCI-liDg the rights of conscience and freudom of religious OPI.DIOIIS. T'ne Committee on Education has, as its talented and Christian chairman has so clearly explained, purposely avoided COMMittiDg tile Constitution in the subject, and for wise reasons. Let us not shipwreck their admirable article, and perhaps our whole work, by lettidg loose oil it the tempest of irreligious passions, "Let us have peace." Bear in mind that any excitement that may have been exhibited here, or may be exhibited" hereafter on this question, is merely a premonition of the mightier conflagration we may kindle throughout the- State of Illinois, which would end in mischief to religion, the Bible, to morality, to the common school system, and wreck the reputation of this Convention severally and collectively. ADJOUR.N.',AENT. Mr. WENDLING. I move'chat the Convention do now adjourn. The motion was agreed to. So the Conventioii (at five o'clock and thirty-seven minutes) adjourned. NINE' T Y- FIR S T DA -1 MOND-KY, May 9,1870. The Convention met at uine o'clock, A. m.'and was called to order by the President. RESPONSF, FROM 1:tICIIMOND (VA.) SUF FERERS. The PRESIDENT. *The Chair will present a communication from Gilbert 0 MAY 9, 1870. DEBATES AD PRO()EEDIXGS. 1759 [The communication will be found in the appendix-No. 16.] BIBLE IN COMMMON SCIfOOLS. The PRESIDENT. The next business in order is the unfioished business of Saturday, namely-the motion of thegentleman from Winniebago [Mr. Cross] to refer the substitute offered by the gentleman from Adams [Mr. Browning], and all the pending amendments to the Committee on Education. Mr. TRUESDALE. Mr. President: Upon that question, I move the previous question. Mr. HAYES. Mr. President: I would ask the gentleman to withdraw that a moment. I will renew it. The PRESIDENT. The Chair will state that the previous question is not applicable to a motion to commit. At the same time, the motion to commit does not open the merits of the question, and it is debatable only within a very narrow rarge. Mr. HAYES. Mr. President: I have prepared some remarks upon the subject which has been unider discussion. I do neot desire to take up the time of the Coi-n vention by reading them here. I ask permission of the Convention to print them a s a speech made on the subject. Mr. IAINES, of Cook. Mr. President: I move that the gentleman have leave to print his remarks. The PRESIlENT. Leave will be granted. [The following is the speech of Mr. Hayes]. Mr. HAYES. Mr. President: Since this subject has been thrust upon the Convention, I will express my views as briefly as possible. The amendment of the gentleman from Carroll [Mr. Wagnler] is, that the Bible shall not be excluded from the public schools. What "Bible" is meant? Is it the Christian Bible, the Mahomrnmedan Bible, or the Mormon Bible? Gentlemen say the Christian Bible. Then, why do they not so express it in the amendment? Will the supporters of this measure say further whether or not they Amean any particular version of the Bible? If they are sincere they will say that they mean the English version of James the First, which they call the "Protestant Bible." Then, why do they not express that in the amendment? Is not the amendment deceptive for want of particularity? Again, what is meant by saying the. Bible shall not be excluded from the schools? Does not the statement proceed on the false assumption that the Bible is now used in the public schools? Is it a fact that the Bible is used as a school book in even a majority of the public schools? But it may be said to mean that whether used or not now, no order shall be issued by those in charge of the schools to prevent its being brought into or used in the schools. I supposed that the books used in the public schools were designated by the school directors. If that be so, this amendment contains another false assumption, namely, that there is a right somewhere outside of the school directory and lawful governors, to prescribe the text books, as in the teachers, for example, and that the function of the directors is simply to exclude tfrom use those which they find objectionable. Do gentlemen mean to overthrow subordination and discipline in the schools?t W alker, Governor of the State of Virginia, enclosing resolutions of the house of d elegate s o f t hat State. The Secretary read the communic ation an d re solutions, as foll ows: COMMONWEALTH OF VIRGINIA, f Executive Department, RICHMOND, May 3d, 1870. aHon. Chaoles Titchc ock, President Constitu tional Convention of Illinois, Sp)ringfield, Ill.: SIR:-Fhe resolutions adopted by the Constitutional Convention of the State of Illinois were duly received,n and I at once transmitted them to the General Assembly of the State of Virginia. The response of the latter body, which I herewith enclose, briefly but sincerely express the appreciation in which the representatives of the people of Virginia and the people themselves hold this spontaneous expression of sympathy extended to us, in this sad hour of our affliction, by the representatives of the people of Illinois. In transmitting to you the enclosed copy of the responsive resolutions adopted by our General Assembly, it affords me sincere satisfaction to testify to the universal feeling of grateful regard with which the people of Virginia received information of the prompt action of the representatives of the good people of Illinois. It seemed as if it came to them in the hour of their gloom with the soothing gratefulness of brotherly kindness, the only human agency affording consolation when the hand of calamity presses hard upon the heart. They realized its gentle force as that "touch of nature" which "makes the whole world kin." For myself, as a former citizen of your Slate, language fails to express the deep emotion with which this action of the Constitutional Convention of Illinois, upon the mo. tion of an old personal friend of my own, has filled my heart. Tender recollections crowd my memory, and weave themselves around the grateful feelings engendered by this demonstration of kind regard: toward the people among whom the mature years of my manhood have been cast; and amid a,i these emo tions arises a feeling of humble gratitude and subdued pride that I am privileged, as the exponent of the people of Virginia, to express the feeling of fraternity between them and the people of Illinois. I have the honor to be, very respectfully, Your obedient servant, G. C. WALKER, Governor of Virginia. JOINT RESOLUTIONS Returning thanks to the Constitutional Convention of Illinois, for their manifestation of sympathy in our recent affliction. Agreed to April 30, 1870. _Resolved, (the House of Delegates concurring), As communicated in a message of the Governor, this day, the General Assembly of Virginia have heard, with grateful emotions, the expres-ion of sympathy on the part of the Constitutional Convention of the State of Illinois, in the deep affliction which has fallen upon this people by the calamity at the capitol on the 27th of April. .Resolved, That the thanks of the General Assembly be returned to that Convention, for this manifestation of sympathy in our general sorrow and bereavement. Rgesolved, That the Governor be requested to transmit a copy of these resolutions to the Presiden-t of that body. [A copy.] J. B. BIGGER, Clerk of the House of Delegates and Keeper of the Rol1ls of Virginia. M~r. HAYES. Mr. President:. I move that the comnmunication of the Governor of Virginlia, with the resolutions of the house of delegates of that State, be entered upon the journal and printed at large in the report of the proceedings of this Conlvention, The motion was agreed to. WARRANTS TO SUPERINTENDENT OF PUB LIC INSTRUCTION. The PRESIDENT. The Chair will present a communication from the Audito~r of State, inl response to a resolution calling for information in regard to the amount of Auditor's warrants issue~ in favor of the Hon. Newton Bateman. AFAY 9) 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1-759 Do they mean to provide in the ConstitutiOD, that if a teacher chooses, without authority, to make the Bible a textbook, tlie.,-e shall be no power in the directors to coltrol him? But suppose tl)is teacher, construing the Constitution for Iiirnself, has introduced the Catholic version, would the directors have a right to exclude that Bible, once introduced? Is it certain the courts would hold that the word'IB;,ble" is so restricted in its meanii%lg as gentlemen contend? The teacher introduces his Douay Bible, the directors attemptto exclude it and issue an order to that cffcct. The teacher refuses to obey, and asserts that he is using a bible and that the Constitution forbids its exclusion. Upon an appeal to the courts, what would be the decision? Would it be in favor of the teacher, or of the directors? Who can tell?'I'hen the phraseology is uncertain, deceptive, opposed to order and the present mode of government in schools, and promotive of litigation and bad blood. But it may be said the intention is to restrain the General Assembly from passiL,g any law to prohibit the use of the Bible in schools. Do gentlemen fear such legislation? Is there any danger of it? Would it Dot be a violation of local selfgovernment Of the most odious kind? If gentlemen fear such an exercise of pow(,r, is there -no danger of its abuse in regard to other publications than the Bible? Is there no danger that a party in power may seek to perpetuate its ascendeacv bv compelling the use of partisan books in the public schools.' Will not the supporters of this measure accept as a substitute, a section prohibiting the exercise of such power by the General Assembly in r(-,gard to any book? If their obj ct be the one they profess, I think they would certaidiy do so. If their objcet be to obtain personal notoriety, by exciting bitter dissentions, perhaps bloodshed, among the people of the State, they would as certainly refuse. 1 hope such is not their object. I hope it will not appear against them hereafter, that they have taken and used in vain the most sacred names; that they have interlarded their discourses with texts from holy writ for base purposes; that, in a word, they have',,stolen the livery of heaven to serve the devil in." I assume that the intentions of the en 1760 CONSTITUTIONAL CONYENTION MoNA t regiment of catholics went from our cities. In Chicago, Father Dunne, a e catholic priest, himself raised a regiment. - From a hundred thousand graves of he ,- roes slain in our defense, over each of - which, if found by their kindred, a wood f en cross would gleam white in the sun o shine, come the reproachful words, "It is e not true that we who died for our country t have been traitors to her c use." Who d does not remember the death of the brave I Mulligan of Chicago? I kinew him n well; brave he was as any knight of d chivalry, pure, upright, devout. When d wounded unto death, he lay on the field st of battle, and his soldiers sought to take . him up, what were the last words of this t true and faithful son of the catholic e church, now denounced as being hostile to American liberties? "Boys let me lie, y and save the flag." What flag was that? o Was it the flag of king or emperor? No; t it was the red, white and blue, the star d- spangled banner of our country, which, g in his dying hour, when the blood was - oozing from his wounds, was so precious I in his sight-more precious than his own hv life. Yet such sacrifices as these are not 1 enough to shield the catholics from this - false and unworthy charge. t But, says one gentleman, Father Heck e er has said this country will be catholic, 1 and that all the priests are trying to t make it so. Well, does that prove the y charge of treason or hostility to our in s stitutions? I admit the catholics are f preaching Christianity everywhere-in China, in India, in Africa, in Europe, in - our own country. They are trying to convert everyone they can to the catholic e church. Is not that the duty of all teachers of Christianity? Did not our s Savior command them to go into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature? Their clergy live only for the good of souls and the propagation of the e gospel. They have no families-most of tthem are under vows of poverty- they have no worldly ambition. The exten1 sion of their faith and the conversion of sinners, is the commission they have re ceived from the head of the church-the ? object of their lives. Now, I deny that any true Christian - man, whether catholic or protestant, - can be dangerous to the State. The di, vine law is to return good for evil, to a love our enemies, and to obey the powers s that be, for they are ordained of God. t I have no fears of Christianity, in any c of its forms. If we have anything to fear it is from the machinations of the evil d one, who sometimes tempts the ambitious , and unprincipled to make a cloak of rei ligion, while inflaming the bad passions - of men, for their own selfish aggrandiset. ent. - I feel justified in denouncing the meas ture under consideration, as an unholy measure. As I have shown, it is decep tive and untruthful in its terms. It as a sumes the existence of a state of facts which does not exist. It is with o ut pret cedent in any of the American Constitu tions, because it is a direct stab at civil and religious liberty. It will he remembered that on a former occasion I offered an amendment, providing that persons desiring to educate their children by teachers of their own religious faith, and having conscientious scruples d against a merely secular education, might have some part of the school fund, not exceeding the amount of school taxes paid by them. T hat was rejected byt Convention, under the plea that it wo interfere with the public schools, f promote sectarianism. It was claim. that the public schools should be used the people of all sects and opinions,: only secular learning taught there, tl the religious instruction should be ceived, not at school, but in the fam and the church. Now, after compelling all the people use and attend these schools, or be ? double expense for education, we fi members of this Convention trying force upon the people of all shades opinion, the use in those schools by th 3children, of a version of the Bible whi has been adopted by less than one-tell of the Christian world, is claimed by t catholics, who preserved the original i fifteen hundred years, to be an inaccur, ; and unfair translation, and is by some the largest denominations of protestas declared to be unreliable. I do not yield to any one in my v( eration for the sacred writings contain i in our Bible. I believe them to be i spired, and to be of inestimable value the Christian church. i believe, howev that the church did exist in its full pi fection before a single book of the Nlr Testament was written. I believe a!: , that it is only by the decrees of t church that we know that the sacr, canon is properly made up, and wh writings were entitled to a place there] I believe also that the original words the Hebrew or Greek show the meani. of the writers better than any translatic and that we have no evidence that tl men who, by order of King Jam; prepared our common English versic were inspired or free from error, althou8p I acknowledge the beauty and gener fidelity of that translation, when no sc tarian dogma was in question. ' Believing the Bible to be inspired, am bound to believe the words of Saii Peter in his second general epistle: Even as our beloved brother Paul, als, according to the wisdom given unto hi. hath written unto you; as, also, in all h epistles, speaking in them of these things, i which are some things hard to be understoo which they that are unlearned and unstab: wrest, as they do also the other scriptur unto their own destruction. As we are told from on high that tt unlearned and unstable wrest the scrii tures to their destruction, it seems t mne that these scriptures should be ex pounded by enlightened and devout pe~ sons, and read by the unlearned and un stable, as all children are, only under thz direction of such persons. I see no propriety in permitting ain teacher in the public schools, a non-bc~ liever, perhaps an infidel or an atheisf. to: direct the public perusal by these un learned and unstable children of these writings, which, for want of prope. instruction, can be wrested by them to: their own destruction. I wish my children to be instructed in the scrip~tures; but not by profane persons, infidels o~: atheists. And as I do not claim infalli. bilityJ for mlyself, I wvouldl not sanction an attempt to force nmy religious faith upon the children of myr neighbors, who are as conscientious as I am, and who hold diffbrent, perhaps opposite, views to my own. Such an attempt I amt prepared to denzounce everywhere, as unjust and wicked, opposed to the spirit ~f Christianity, and CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION .MOND-A 1760 were averse to it, bat I could not resis the call of duty. I owed it to my constituents, a larg portion of whom have, with their co-re ligionists, been misrepresented and slan dered on this floor, charged With the de sign to overthrow the free institutions o this country, and that by gentlemen wh are themselves -seeking to change th Constitution of the State in the interes of their own sectarian schemes. I owe it to the cause of truth and justice, owed it to popular rights and freedo of conscience, now opeiily attacked, an I owed it-to religion in whose sacre name, under whose holy garb, this grea wrong and outrage is sought to be don I will notice the aspersions upon tha portion of our people who belong to th catholic church. I regret that there is not in this bod any professed member'of that church t speak for it. I am not a member of tha denomination, but I can speak of it with out prejudice. StartiDg out with a strop bia,,- auaii)st the catholic doctrines, be lievidg sincerely the charges which have beard repeated in this debate, an regarding that- church as corrupt an .anti-Christian, I have, after an investiga tion of ten years, come to the concl.usio that I have myself been in error, that th Christian religion has been preserve and still exists within the bosom of tha courch, and that the vocation of its clerg and the ouly purpose of its hierarchy i the service of God and the salvation o hut'nan souls. The charge ma'de here against the cath olics,and ur,-.,ed with pass.ionate declama tio.n, is that they design to overthrow th free institutions of this country. I as where is the evidence to sustain thi charge? I challenge investigation. I ap peal to history. From the day whe Lord Baltimore landed his catholic colo ny on the sliores of Alaryland, and set th example of universal toleration, down to the present fiour, I wish to know whei and where the Catholics have ever faile in their du.',y to their coul-ktry, or bee found in opposition to her laws or institutions. Was it in the revolutionary war History answers that they were at every post of peril, aDd crowded every battlefield-that generous Catholics from be yond the seas, Kosciusco, and DeKalb, DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. fered by Mr. Browning, and the pending amendments, as follows: [Substitute offered by Mr. Browning]: The General Assembly shall pass no law prohibiting the use of the bible in the schools in this State. [Amendment offered by Mr. Wagner to section six]: The bible shall never be excluded from the common schools of this State, nor shall sectarian doctrines be taught therein. [Amendment offered by Mr. Church to amendment offered by Mr. Wagner]: Insert after the word "from," in the first line, the words: "Nor its use compelled in." The yeas and nays were ordered, and being taken, resulted-yeas, 49, nays, 12 -as follows: promotiv e of dis cord and evil, instead of "peace on earth, and good will among men." But admitting, for argument's sake, that there is no objection to the use of th e Bibl e ithe B in he free schools, admitting that all who send children to them are protestants, using the King Jam es v ersi on in fame, n their f amilies, and that the teachers are all protestant Christians, capable o f selec t ing and expounding wsely -let all -this be true, still there is a principle of vital importance involved —a right of the m os t p recious kind destroyed by this proposition. It is an atte mpt t o declare, in the organic law, that the State has a right to control the consciences of its people, and may prescribe the particular sources from which the youth of the country shall derive their ideas and opinions upon religious subjects and upon all other subjects. If the State may forbid the exclusion or non-use of one book, it may of another. It may, with the shifting majorities of a representative government, install Paine's Age of Reason, the Mormon Bible, or the Koran of Mahomet, in the same place of authority. It may compel the education' of our youth as Buddhists, as materialists or as atheists. It may also perpetuate the rule of a-party by compelling the use in the schools of books in support of that party and excluding all books opposed to its theories. Mr. HAYES. Is that in order after a motion has been made to refe r to the Committee on Revisi on? I hope thi s s u bject will not be introduced at this time. The PRE SIDENT. It ie is ntrue it is not in order. The ques tion is on the motion to refer to the Committee on Revision and Adjustment. The motion was agreed to. CANAL AND CANAL LANDS. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the motion of the gentleman from White [Mr. McDowell] to lay on the table the motion of the gentleman from Bureau [Mr. Whiting] to make the report of the Committee on Canal and Canal Lands, the special order for Tuesday, at ten o'clock, A M. The yeas and nays were ordered. The Secretary proceeded to call the r oll. Mr FOX (when his name was called) said: I have paired off with the gentleman from Clark [Mr. Scholfield.] Mr. CUMMINGS (when his name was called) said: I have paired off with the gentleman from Clark [Mr. Scholfield]. Mr. PEIRCE (when his name was called) said: Having paired off with the gentleman from Crawford [Mr. Allen] and observin,) that he is not in his seat, I desire to be excused from voting. The result was then announced-yeas, 30, niays, 26-as follows: A power so dangerous as this cannot be exercised in a free government. It is, or should be, prohibited in our bill of rights, The direction of the education of children should be with their parents and guardians, and with the directors chosen in each school district by those who send their children to the schools. And that direction should be of a character to do no violence to the consciences and convictions of any portion of the people. Our people have always been jealous of their right to freedom of conscience. Now, that freedom is sought to be violated. They have ever opposed the union of church and State. Now, a precedent is sought to be established by which hereafter church and State may be united, or what is far worse, infidelity and the State, atheism and the State. I trust we are a Christian people. I believe we recognize by our common law and statutes, the Lora's day as a universal day of restfrom public secular employments. I hope we will always do so But we have also, in every form, declared the right of all persons and all classes to worship God according to the dictates of their own consciences. We have, in every form, denied the right of the majority, or their representatives, in any way to do violence to the consciences of the minority. Whenever the contrary doctrine shall be insisted on elsewhere, as it is here, its assertion will be opposed and resisted. The attempt to enforce it, will lead to dissention, to sectarian wars the most bloody and terrible. Let all lovers of their country unite to condemn it. Let us send this proposition to the committee, there to be buried out of sight, never to be revived. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the motion to commit. ["Read."] The Secretar) read the substitute of 441 TEAS. Harwood, Hay, King, McCoy, McDowell, Moore, Neece, Parker, Rice, Sharp, ABSENT, OR NOT VOTING. Allen of Alex.,Coolbaugh, Poage, Allen of Cr'fd.,Dement, Robinson, Archer, English, Ross, Atkins, Hanna, Scholfield, Bowman, Hart, Skinner, Brown, Hildrup, Turner, Bryan, Medill, Mr. President-22. Buxton, So the motion of Mr. Cross to refer to the Committee on Education, the substitute offered by Mr. Browning, with the pending amendments thereto, was agreed to. NAYS., Goodhue, Sherrill, Haines of CookTruesdale, Haines of LakeTubbs, Ha~yes, Wait, Parks,' Wells, Perley, Wheaton, Pillsbury, Whiting, Ross, Wright-26. Sedgwick, ORDER OF BUSINESS. Mr. BROWNING. Mr. President: I wish to present, if it is in order, a section to be inserted in the schedule. I do not intend to occupy the attention of the Convention otherwise than to present it. Will it bein order? The PRESIDENT. As soon as the Chair shall have disposed of the pending section. The question is upon the adoption of section six. EDUCATION. The Secretary read section six, as follows: There may be a county superintendent of schools in each county, whose qualifications. powers, duties, compensation, and time and manner of election and term of office shall be prescribed by law. Section six was agreed to. Mr. HAYES. Mr President: I move the article be referred to the Committee on Revision and Adjustment. Mr. SNYDER. I have an additional section which I wish to present. The Secretary read the section offered by Mr. Snyder, as follows: There shall be no corporal punishment in the schools of this State. MAY 9) 1870. 1761 YEAS. Go?dhue, Sherrill,, Ha!nes of Colk,Snyder, Ilaines of Lake, Sutherland, Hankins, Truesdale, Hay, Tubbs, Hayes, Underwood, King, Vandeventer, McDowell, Wait, Moore Wall,' Neece, Wasfiburn, Parker, Wells, Parks, Wendling, Perley, Wheaton, Peirce, Whitinz, Rice, Wilson,, Sharp, Wright-49. Abbott, Anderson, Anthony, Benjamiia, Browning, Cameron, Cary, Church, - coqy, Craig, Cross, Cummings, Eldredge, Ellis, -' Forman, Fox, I Goodell, WAYS. Harwood, McCoy, Merriam, Pillsbury, Bayne, Bromwell, Fuller, Gamble, Setlgwick, Springer, Tincher, Wagner-12. T VOTING. I Poage, Robinson, Ross, Scholfield, Skinner, Turner, Mr. President-22. Abbott, ,knderson, Bromwell, Browning, Cary, Church, Craig, Elli, Forman, Goodell, Snyder, Sp'gery d, rID Sutherlan T!Dcher, Underwood, Vandeventer, Wall, Washburn, Wel'idling, Wilson-30. I Anthony, Baype,. Benjamin, Cameroia, Cody, Cross Eldrege, Fuller, Gamble, ABSENT, OR NOT VOTING. Allen of Alex. Cummings, Merriam, Allen of Clfd. Dement, Peirce, Archer, English,' Poage, Atkins, Fox, Robinson, Bowman, Hankins, Scholtield, Brown, Hanna, Skinner, Brvan, Hart, Turner, B-uxton, Hildrup, Wagner, Coolbaugh, Medill,' Mr. Prsident-27. So the motion of Mr. McDowell to lay on the table the motion of Mr. Whiting to make thereport of the Committee on Canal and Canal Lands the special order for May 10, at ten o'clock A. m., was agreed to. RA-ILROAD Al'iD 31UNICIPAL INDEBTEDNESB OF QUINCY. Mr. BROWNING. Alr. President: I will preface the introduction of the section that I wish to have placed in the schedule with a very few explanatory reasons. Duriing the last autum a vote was taken in the city of Quincy on a propos'ition to make a subscription which was not authorized by law. It was a subscription to a railroad. But such cases had several times occurred in the State, where.9 - 1762 ONSTITUTIOAL COET1ON MONDAY have been, if no Convention had been held. Mr. HAY. I would ask the gentleman whether any engagements have been entered into on the faith of that vote? Mr. BROWNING. Yes, sir; large contracts, I understand, have been made, and work has progressed, and there would be a very great amount of private injury and injustice inflicted if the Convention should fail or refuse to adopt the proposition. Mr. ELDREDGE. I would ask the gentleman from Adams [Mr. Browning] further, whether the passage of this additional proviso would not confer power on the Legislature to legalize every unauthorized subscription to the stock of railroad companies that was taken in this State prior to the meeting of this Convention. Mr. BROWNING. It would, in all cities. I have no objection to limiting this to the city of Quincy, if it is more acceptable that it shall be so limited. I do not suppose there is another similar case in the State. I have no idea that there is, and if there were, it would affect no locality except cities that might have voted subscriptions, and it would be no injustice to leave the question as to them just as it was before the Convention met, Mr. SEDGWICK. Mr. President: It seems to me that this proposition is very unjust, for as I understand it, the design is to permit the city of Qu-incy to, under the law of 1869, draw its share of the surplus of the State taxes above the assessment of 1868, to build a railroad in Missouri. The increase of taxes on account of the building of the road, would accrue to that State, instead of increasing the surplus fund for building railroads in our own State. I think the act of 1869 bad enough in all conscience, when the surplus taxes are to be applied to building roads in our own State. To allow the city of Quincy to build railroads in Missouri with that surplus fund, is going too far. I, therefore, move to lay the proposition of the gentleman from Adams [Mr. Browning], upon the table. The yeas and nays were ordered, and being taken, resulted-yeas 14, nays 42as follows: scriptions had been voted in the exopectation of afterwards ge tting them legalized b y the action of t he Gen eral Assembly, and supposing that there would be n o trouble in accomplish ing the same object in th is case, the citizens, with extraordinary unanimity, voted the subscrip tion. Immediately after the vote, measures w e re t aken to commence the construction of the road; contracts were made based upon the faith of that subscription, and th e w ork has since that time been progress ing. There is noonesubject of local concern in which the citizens of Quincy feel so lively an interest as in this. The property holders and business men of the city, with hardly an exception, gave their support to the proposition, and are very anxious that it shall be left in such an attitude as will enable the General Assem bly to take such action in regard to it as may seem to that body wise and proper hereafter. Some provisions have been inserted in at he Constitu tion which will prevent the subject from receiving the consideration of the General Assembly unless this section be added. All that we desire to do is to place the question in precisely the same attitude that it occupied when the Convention came together. I do not ask the Convention to take any action, either ratifying or annulling what was done, but to leave the question precisely where it was when the Convention met, that the General Assembly may, if they think proper, either ratify or refuse to ratify what has been done by the city. It is a matter which does not affect any other portion of the State, and cannot, by any possibility, work any detriment to interests elsewhere. The section, which I trust the Convention will do the city cf Quincy the favor of adopting, is this-. Nothing contained in this Constitution shall be so construed as to deprive the General Assembly of the poser to authorize the city of Quincy to create any indebtedness for railroad or municipal purposes, for which the people of said city shall have voted, and to which they shall, by such vote, have given their assent prior to the 13th day of December, 1869. The thirteenth of December is the day on which the Convention met, and all we ask is that the question be left precisely where it was at that time. Mr. ELDREDGE. Mr. President: I would like to inquire of the gentleman from Adams [Mr. Browning] whether this was a vote taken to subscribe to the stock and for the issue of bonds in aid of a railroad company within the State, or whether it was not to aid in the building of a railroad in the State of Missouri? Mr. BROWNING. I will answer that, when this question was, on.a former occasion, before the Convention, I stated all the facts of the case, that it was a subscription to aid;i in the construction of a road on the opposite side of the river, lying in Missouri, and running through perhaps the finest tier of counties in that State, but that it will be a road, when constructed, of more value to Quincy and the country of Illinois lying east of that part of Missouri than any other road that has yet been made. That is the truth about the matter —that it is a subscription to a rail road outside of the State, but it affects!no interests pecuniarily except those o f Quincy, and I trust that ona that account the Convention will not refuse to leave i L~ where it was, and where it would to. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the adoptio n of the section. Mr' BROWNING. Mr. President: At the request of several of my friends, I will modify it so as to confine it to the city of Quincy. Mr. CHURCH. Mr. President: I desire to ask whether the gentleman from Adams [Mr. Browning] will se modify his proposition, that it will have no action with reference to the law of 1869, or allow the countv to retain the State taxes for the payment of this debt. Mr. BROWNING. Mr. President: This does not affect the question. It does nct increase any amount they would have under that law. Mr. CHURCH. Mr. President: Does it not make another debt? -Mr. BROWNING. Mr. President: That law, I think, is limited to railroads within the State, but I am not certain, and will not say positively. It would do an injury, I think, to make such an amendment to the section, without at all changing its effect. The law of 1869 is, I think, limited to railroads in the State. Mr. CHURCH. Mr. President: I do not understand that the proposition of the gentleman from Adams [Mr. Browning] is limited to railroads out of the State. I should like to see it modified. If I am satisfied that it is purely local in its effect, I do not care to oppose it. Mr. ANTHONY. Mr. President: Perhaps the gentleman from Adams [Mr. Browning] will accept this as an amendment: That all cities in this State which have incurred debts for any proposition, may have the same benefit under and by virtue of any law of this State. Mr. BROWNING. Mr. President: That does not relate to this. The PRESIDENT. The proposed amendment relates to a different subject. Mr. ANTHONY. Mr. President: There is no gentleman in this Convention I would like to accommodate any more than the gentleman from Adams [Mr. Browning], but I understand that this is taking the State taxes, and appropriating them to the payment of this debt of, I believe, $500,000. In other words, it is a debt to be paid out of the State taxes, to be applied to a road in Missouri. If the city of Quincy, as a corporation, desires to make a subscription, and will pay the debt thus incurred, I have not the slightest objection in the world, but will vote for such a proposition as will allow those citizens to pay that debt, placing it upon the same basis as other cities. But I am unalterably opposed to the State assuming to pay any of the debts of any city in this State. Mgr. SHARP. Mgr. President: I move the previous question. The motion for the previous question was agreed to and the main question ordered. The PRESIDENT. The question is on the adoption of the proposition oft the gentleman'from Adams [M~r. Browning.] The yeas and nays were ordered, and being taken, resul ted — yeas 38, nays 17 — ~,o -f,l 1 act- -o YEAS. Haines of Lake, Parker, Perley, Pillsbury, Sedgwick, NAYS. Gamble, Hankins, Harwood, Hay, Hayes, King, McCov, McDo'well, Medill, Merriam, Moore Neece, Parks, Rice, CONSTITUTIONAL CONYENTION IMONDAY 1762 So the motion of Mr. Sedgwick to lay upon the table the additional section offered by Mr. Browning, was not agreed Anthony, Bayne, Eldredge, Goodell, Goodhue, Abbott, Anderson, Benjamin, Bromwell, Browning, Cameron, Cody, Craig, Cross, Cummilags, Ellis, Forman, Fox, Fuller, Ross, Snyder, Sharp, Tincher, Truesdale, Tubbs, Underwood, Vandeventer, Wagner, - Wa7shburn, WendlID9, Wheaton, . Wilson, Wright. ABSENT, OR NOT VOTING. Allen of Alex,Church, Poage, Allen of Cr lfd,C-oolbaugh, Robinson, Archer, Dement, Scholfl —,ld, Atkins, English, Skinner, Bowman, Haines of Colk, Turner, Brown, Hanna, Wait, Bryan, Hart, Wall, Buxton, Hildrup, Wells, Cary, Peirce, Mr.-Presiiient-27. MAY 9, 1870. DEBATES AM) PROOEEDIGS. 1763 ken, but I then understood that he was ~ opposed to the thing. Are we going to travel over the jiudi ciary article again, section by section, be cause gentlemen do not get their proposi. tions adopted or succeed in defeating those of others? This matter was before the Judiciary Committee all winter long. It was stated here the other day, that of all the things that the lamented Emmrer son wanted to have put in this Constitu tion, the chief was this very provision that the gentleman from McDonough [Mr. Neece] now desires to have stricken out. It does seem to me that if we are to travel all over our work again, after it has been adopted and referred to the Committee on Revision, we never shall get through. This matter came before the Judiciary Committee earlv in the session of the Convention, was reported to the Convention, came before the Committee of the Whole, passed through the Convention, has gone to the Committee on Revision, and is now ready for enrollment. If we are to take it up in this manner, and at this time, we might as well adjourn at once. If any gentleman can come in here after a great many members have left the Convention, and move to strike out such provisions as they do not like, we will be resolved into a perfect chaos. I move to lay that motion on the table. The yeas and nays were ordered. The Secretary proceeded to call the roll. Mr. SNYDER (when his name was called) said: Mr. President: I am opposed to the section, and I should like to accommodate my friend from McDonough [Mr. Neece]. But we have been fairly beaten upon it, and there is no end to our work here, unless we stop this practice of going backwards. I vote "Aye." The result was then announced-yeas, 35, nays, 18 —as follows: pocket, extra charges for postage for the members of this Convention, is out of pocket about five dollars, which I think should be reimbursed. I think there is no need of referring this resolution. The resolution offered by Mr. King was agreed to. YEAS. Haines of CookSharp, Hankins, Snyder, Hay, Truesdale, Hayes, Tubbs, King, Underwood, McCo y, Vandeventer, McDowell, Wagner, Merriam, Wait, Moore, Washburn, Neece, Wendling, Parks, Wilson, Rice, Wright-38. Ross, APPELLATE COURTS. Mr. NEECE. I desire to offer a resolution. The Secretary read the resolution of fered by Mr. Neece, as follows: Resolved, That the Committee on Revision and Adjustment be instructed to strike out the eleventh section of the judiciary article, relating to appellate courts. Mr. WHEATON. Mr. President: Three times before, this has been before the Committee of the Whole and the Convention. Upon full discussion concerning the merits of this appellate court, by a large majority, the Committee of the Whole adopted the section. In Convention, when the judiciary article was being considered, the same motion was made by the gentleman who now makes the motion to strike out the section. No discussion was had upon it, and the section was stricken out. Thereupon a motion to reconsider was made, when a discussion was had upon the merits of the question, and the Convention, by a large majority, reinserted this section. Now, the motion is again made by the gentleman, not satisfied with the action of the Convention, to strike out that section, which is by far, in my judgement, the best section in the judiciary article. It is the poor man's court, the only court in the State that will stand between the poor man and the expense of taking a case from the circuit to the suprem e court. It is left optional with the Legislature to establish it if they see fit, and thus save the poor people the expense of taking their cases from the circuit to the supreme court, because that appellate court may sit in each county of the State, where the records of the courts are kept, so that parties may contest cases without the expense of copies of records, copies of bills of exceptions, and printing rec. ords and bills of exceptions, and the vast expense of taking cases to the supreme court. The poor man can have his own cases heard and determined by a court in his own county, and no man who has any regard whatever for the interests of th e people, will be in favor of striking out the provision, which of all others, is preeminentiy for them. This is not a provision for the lawyers, who get more fees by going to the supreme court, but the people, who are interested in having cheap administration of justice, in paying less lawyer's fees, less clerk's fees and less printer's fees, and I therefore hope the motion will not prevail. Mr. ANTHONY. Mr. President: With all due respect to the gentleman from t McDonough [Mr. Neece], it does seem to me entirely out of character for the Convention t o take action upon this matter at the present time. I believe, if the attention of this Convention could be had for five minutes to this question, it would not be entertained at all. When we had this matter up in Committee of the Whole, I understood the gentleman to make a motion to strike out the section, or, at least,to dissent from the proposition. It is possible that I am mista Allen of Alex. Dement, Robinson, Allen of Crfd.,English, Scholfield, Archer, Gamble, Skinner, Atkins, Hanna, Tincher, Bowman, Hart, Turner, Brown, Harwood, Wall, Bryan, Hildrup, Wells, Buxton, Medill, Wheaton Cary, Poage, Mr. President-28. Coolbaugh, The PRESIDENT. The proposition is agreed to; and will be referred to the Committee on Revision and Adjustment, to be by them inserted in the schedule. THE NEW STATE HOUSE. The Chair will state to the Convention that there is lying upon the table a report from the Committee on Public Accounts and Expenditu res, relating to the State hous e, and a proposition from the Committee on Federal Relations, not yet disposed of. ENROLLING THE CONSTITUTION. Mr. SPRINGER. Mr. President: I would like to make an inquiry, simplv. As we are approaching the close of our work, and it will be necessary to en roll the Constitution, before it can be signed by the delegates, would it not be better to pass on some of the reports of the Committee on Revision and Adjustment, so that the Clerk may go to work and enroll them? The PRESIDENT. The Chair will state to the gentleman, that the Committee on Revision and Adjustment has made no report to the Convention. Mr. CODY. Mr. President: I will state that the Committee on Revision and Adjustment will make a report this afternoon, on all the articles down to the judiciary article, if the business of the Convention shall be such that it can be taken up. POSTAGE TO CONVENTION. Mr. KING. Mr. President: I ask leave to introduce a resolution. The Secretary read the resolution offered by Mr. King, as follows: Resolved, That William F. Wilton be authorized to draw on the Secretary of State for five dollars' worth of three cent postage stamps, to compensate him for the amount paid out at the post-office in this city, for additional postage on letters directed and delivered to members of this Convention. Mr. ROSS. Mr. President: I move that the resolution be referred to the Committee on Accounts and Expendi tures. Mr. KING. Mr. President: I hope that the resolution will not be objected to by any one. The young man named in the resolution has paid out of his-own Sherrill, Snyder, Springer, Sutherland, Tincher, Truesdale, Underwood, Wall, Wheaton, Whiting, Wilson-35. NAYS. Abbott, Haines of Lake,Vandeventer, Bromwell, Hankins, Wait, Ellis, McCoy, Washburn, Forman, Neece, Wells" Fox, Rice, Wendling, HainesofCook,Ross, Wright-18. ABSENT, OR NOT VOTING. Allen of Alex.,Coolbaugh Perley, Allen of Crfd.,Cummings, Peirce, Archer, Dement, Poage, Atkins, English, Robinson, Bowman, Gamble, Bcholfield, Brown, Hanna, Skinner, Bryan, Hart, Tubbs, Buxton, Harwood, Turner, Cameron, Hildrup Wagner, Cody, McDowell, Mr. Prcsident 30. So the motion of Mr. Anthony, to lay on the table the resolution offered by Mr. Neece, was agre~ d to. FEDERAL RELATIONS. Mr. PEIRCE. Mr. President: I move that the report of the Committee on Federal Relations be now taken up. t I I 0 3 c MAY 9) 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1763 Abbott, Anderson, Benjamin, Browning, Cameron, Cody, Craig, Cross, Cummings, Ellis, Forman, Fox, Fuller, NA.YS. Goodhue, Sedgwick, Haines ofLake,She-rrill, Parker, Springer, Perley, Sutherland, Peirce, Whiting-17. Pillsbury, SENT, OR NOT VOTING. Anthony, Bayne, Bromwell, Church, Eldredge, Goodell, YEA.S. Goodhue, Hay, Hayes King, Medill Merriam, Moore, Parker, Parks, Pillsbury, Sedgwick, Sharp,, -Anderson, Anthony, Bayne, Be'amin, ni Browning, Cary, Chure,h,. Craig, Cross, Eldredge, Fuller, Goodell, 176 ('OSIITOA ONET ODY ing further, that such a provision does not .conflict with either the spirit or the letter of the Federal Constitution, we submit the following, and ask its adoption: ARTICLE -. The General Assembly shall not ratify any amendment to the Constitution of the United States until a general election for members of the General Assembly shall have been held after such amendment shall have been proposed by congress to the Legislatures of the respective States. Mr. PEIRCE. Mr. President: Having acted as Chairman of the Committee on Federal Relations, I shall, perhaps, be expected to make some explanation of their action. As will be seen, we have presented three sections, which were de signed to comprise an article to be in serted in the new Constitution. But, by consent of the mover of the proposition [Mr. Anthony], I have thought better to present them as resolutions for adoption, rather than as an article for the Constitu tion. This it was considered would save time, facilitate business and hasten the time of our adjournment. As an expres.s sion of our opinions, we can all properly indorse the propositions, for I can con ceive of no reasonable objection to them, but as they cannot confer any authority in addition to that conferred by the Con stitution of the United States, as they cannot increase the scope of its power, or our responsibility to it, and as they can have no influence on the question of alle giance to that Constitution, we have re garded itoas unimportant to insert our re port as an article of the Constitution. We, therefore, propose to amend it by inserting the word "resolved" before each of the several sections which we present, and ask the Convention to adopt them as the sense of this body. We also present a resolution which I ask to have first taken up and acted upon. The resolution is as follows: not sections for adoption in the new Constitution. Mr. RICE. Then I vote "Aye." Mr. WRIGHT (when his name was called) said: Mr. President: I do not dissent from the sentiments expressed in the resolutions, but do dissent from putting any such resolutions as these in the Constitution. I vote "No." Mr. BROWNING (before the result was announced) said: Mr. President: When the roll was being called, I was very much occupied, and did not hear my name called. I take the opportunity of saying that I shall vote "No," upon the resolutions, because I think they are wholly outside of the appropriate duties of this Convention. I express no opinion upon the doctrines contained in the resolutions. Mr. WASHBURN (when his name was called) said: Mr. President: Regarding these resolutions as wholly foreign to the business and duties of this Convention, I vote "No." Mr. WENDLING (when his name was called) said: Without committing my self, either'for or against the proposition, I will, for the same reason expressed by the gentleman from Adams [Mr. Brown ing], and the gentleman from Williamson [Mr. Washburn], vote "No." The result was then announced-yeas 42, nays 13-as follows: Mr. FOX. I move to amend by saying that the report of the Committee on Federal Relations be indefinitely postponed. The amendment offered by Mr. Fox was not agreed to. The motion of Mr. Pierce was agreed to. [The following is tte r eport o f the majority of the Committe e o n Fe deral R elation s.] ARTICLE —. SECTION 1. The State of Illinois s hall be and forever remain on e of t he Unit ed S tate s of America, and a me mber of the American Federal Union; and no powe r exist s in the people of this or any other State of the Federal Union to s e cede or dissolve thei r connection therewith, or perform any act tending to impai r, sub vert or resist t he supreme authority of t he Un ited S tates. SEc. 2. Everycitizen of the State owespara mou nt allegiance to t he Constitution and government of the United States; and the laws and treaties made in pursuance thereof shall be the supreme law of the land. SEc. 3. The Constitution of the United States confers full powers on the Federal government, to maintain and perpetuate its existence; and whensoever any State or any portion of the States, or the people thereof, attempt to secede from the Federal Union, or forcibly resist the execution of its laws, the Federal government may, by warrant of the Constitution, employ armed force in coercing and compelling obedience to its authority. Your committee also having had under consideration sundry resolutions relating to the removal of the national Capital to the city of Nauvoo, and to other specified localities in this State, beg leave to report the following resolution, and ask its adoption. Resolved, That we, the representatives of ihe people of the State of Illinois, in Constitutional Convention assembled, do hereby recommend to our representatives in the Congress of the United States, and request of them, that they labor to secure the removal of the national capital to some point in the Mississippi valley. The Secretary of this Convention is instructed to forward a copy of this resolution to each member of Congress from this State. Your committee have,also, had under consideration the following resolution, and have instructed me to report the same back to the Convention, and ask to be relieved from the further consideration thereof: Resolved, That ultimate sovereignty (subject only to the Constitution of the United States) resides with the people of the State, and to such sovereignty allegiance is due. Every State owes allegiance to the Constitu tion, so long as the people, as the sovereign power in the State, permits such Constitution to remain in force; but upon the question whether such Constitution shall be abrogated or remain in force, the sovereign power of the people is paramount, and commands the al legiance of the citizen. Your committee lhave, also, had under conl sideration the resolutions introduced by Mr. Wendliyg and Mr. Turner:, relative to pr~ovid ing in the Constitution of this State that the General Assembly shall not ratify amendments to the Constitution of the United States, un til after an election of members of the Gen eral Assembly shall have intervened, or until the second regular session held after the amendment is submitted. Your committee have instructed me to report the samle back, and ask to be relieved from the further con sideration thereof, and to present the follow ing as their reasons therefor. [The following is the minority report of the Committee on Federal Relations]: The undersigned, members of the Commit tee on FederalRelations, beg leave to report that they respectfully dissent from the views expressed in that portion of the report of said committee relating to the proposition to in corporate in our State Constitution an article prescribing the time when the General As sembly may ratify amendments to the Federal Constitution. Believing that the subject is one of grave importance- and holding that such a provision would secure to the people of Illinois the en joyment of their highest right, to wit:. thle right to pass upon amendments to the Fed. era1 Constitution at the ballot*ox; anld hold Gam ble, Pillsbury, Goodell, Rice, Goodhue, Ross, Haines of Co'k,Sedgwick, Haines ofL'k, Sherrill, Harwood, Snyder, Hay, Sutherland, McCoy, Tincher, Medill, Truesdale, Merriam, Tubbs, Moore, Underwood, Parker, Wells, Parks, Wheaton, Peirce, Whiting-'42. fResolved, That we, the representatives of the people of the State of Illinois, in Constitutional Convention assembled, do hereby recommend to our representatives in the Congress of the United States, and request of them, that they labor to secure the removal of the national capital to some point in the Miss i ssippi valley: The resolution was agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is on the resolutions reported by the committee. Mr. PEIRCE. I move to insert the word "resolved," before each section, and that the three sections be adopted as res olutions. The PRESIDENT. It will be declared adopted. The question is now on the adoption of the resolutions. The question being upon the adopti on of the resolutions presented by the Committee upon Federal Relations, The yeas and nays were ordered. The Secretary proceeded to call the roll. - Mr. RICE (a hen his name was called) said: Mr. President: I will inquire whether this proposition is to be an expression of this Convention, or is it to be a part of the Constitution? I think it has no place in a State Constitution. Mr. PEIRCE. Mr. President: I made a motion, which was adopted, that the report be amended by inserting the word "resolved" before each section, so that they are now simply resolutions expressive of the sense of this Convention, and K ing McDowell, Neece, Vandeventer, 1764 (,'ONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION MONDAY 7 YEA'S. Abbott, Anderson, Anthony, Bayne, Benjamin Bromwell, Cameron, Cary, Chu r-ch, Craig, Cross, Cumming,s, Eldredge, Fuller, X.&YB. .Browning, Ellis, Forman, Fox, Hankins, Washburn, Wendling, Wilson, Wrighi3. ABSENT, OR NOT VOTING. Allen of Alex.,Dement, Scholfield, Allen of Crfd. English' Sharp, Archer, Hanna, Skinner, Atkins, Hart, Springer, Bowman, Haves, Turner, Brown, Hildru'p. Wagner, Bryan, Perley, Wait, Buxton, Poage, Wall, Cody, Robinson, Mr. President-28. Coolbaugh, So the resolutions reported by the Committee on Federal Relations were agreed to. Mr. ROSS. Mr. President: I would ask if there is not another resolution, referred to that committee? Mr. PEIRCE. Mr. President: There is, but we are not yet ready to report,upon it. There is still another resolution in this report, Mr. President, from the consideration of which the committee wish to be discharged. Resolved, That ultimate sovereignty (subject only to the Constitution of the United states) resides with the people of the State, and to such sovereignty allegiance Is due. Every State owes allegiance to the Constitution as long as the people, as the sovereign power in tlfe State, permit# such Constitu -A -, 180 e ~ lA~ ePI PRCtD~~ 17 consciousness of trespassing on the pa tience of hearers when arguing abstract propositions. But the importance of this measure and the singular unanimity, and I may say violence, with which it has been denounced throughout the State by the press of that party whose representa tives upon this floor attack it, and the further fact that its alleged unconstitu tionality is the pretext under cover of which the assault is made, impel me to ask the attention of this Convention while I addiess myself very briefly to the ques tion of constitutional powers involved in this measure. Now, sir, let me state the case. We desire to insert a clause in our new Con stitution by which the people may be protected from the fraud that can now be perpetrated by a Legislature in ratify ing amendments to the Federal Constitu tion, to which the people are opposed. We desire that when an amendment is submitted by congress to the Legislature, the people shall have an opportunity to elect a Legislature with reference to that amendment. To that end it is proposed that this Convention insert in our new Constitution a provision prohibiting the general Assembly from ratifying any amendment to the Constitution of the United States until an election intervenes after the amendment is submitted. That, Mr. President, is a statement of the case on the side of the people. Let us now look at the special pleas filed by the other side, or in other words, let us examine the position of those par ty leaders who, in following the lead of a party press, deny the people this pro tection and base that denial on the pre tense that such protection is unconstitu tional. We are first cited to the fifth article of the federal Constitution. Congo ess, whenever two-thirds of both houses shall deem it necessary, shall proposen amendments to this Constitution, or on the application of the Legislatures of two -thirds of the several States, shall call a Couventiine fbr proposing amendments, which, in either case, shall be valid to all intents and purposes, when ratified by the Legislatures of threefourths of the several States, or by Conventions in three-fourths thereof, as the one or the other maode of ratification may be pro. posed by Congress. From this article it is argued that the people of Illino)is, and of all the States, are the helpless victims of the Legislatures that happen to be in existence when an amendment to the federal Constitution is proposed, and that from that dilemma the people have no escape. The argument, briefly expressed, is that the fed eral Constitution, in the filth article thereof, says that when an amendment, proposed by congress to the Legislatures, is ratified by a Legislature, the amendment is ratified; therefore, whenever a Legislature ratifies an amendment, the amendment is ratified. In other words, a State Legislature being invested by the federal Constitution, which is the supreme law of the land, with the power of ratifying, the people of the State can not control, restrict or direct that power. The pertinacity with which a portion of the press, and the apparent earnestbnes with which some members of this Convention adhere to this argument and its many ingenious variations, induce me to give it serious consideration and a candid discussion. Before proceeding to expose the sophism concealed in the argument, let me digress for a moment, and direct attentionr tion to remain in force; but upon the ques tion whether such Constitution shall be ab rogated or remain in force, the sovereign pow er of the people is paramount and commands the allegiance of the citizen. The PRESIDENT'r. The committee will be discharged from the further con s ideration of- it. Mr. McDOWELL. Mr. President: I think we had better have a vote on it. I move that the committee be discharged. The question being on the motion of Mr. McLloweli, that the committee be dis charged from further consideration of the resolution, the motion was agreed to. Mr. PEIRCE. Mr. President: There is another proposition contained in the minority report, which is as follows: The General Assembly shall not ratify any amendment to the Constitution of the United States until a general election for members of the General Aasembly shall have been held, after such amendment shall have been proposed by Congress to the Legislatures of the respective States. Having had the subject under serious consideration, we have considered that it is not a fit subject for the Constitution, be ing really au amendment to the Consti tution of the United States, and we de sire to be released from its further consid eration. Mr. WENDLING. Mr. President: I shall move the adoption of the article in the minority report. The question has received a great deal of attention throughout the State, and from mem,bers of the Convention. At the time of its introduction here there was manifested considerable feeling upon it. I do not desire to reopen that question in a manner that will renew any of the feelings then brought up, but I conceive the question is one of great importance, and I move the adoption of the article. Il this connection I desire to say that as we are near the close of our labors here there is a manifest and proper disposition to not listen to any lengthy speeches or arguments. I do not desire to inlfringe upon the rules established, but I submit that as it is a subject of great importance, and inasmuch as the question has been thoroughly discussed, and at great length upon the opposite side by the chairman of the Committee on Federal Relations, it is only lair that I should have the permission of the Convention to submit an argument in reply on the question of constitutionlal law involved. But without some expression of consent from the the members of the Contention to hear that atgulment, I shall not enter upon it. It is an argument that will consulme very little time, and is mainly upon the question of constitutional law involved in this discussion. ["Leave."'Leave. "Go on." "Go on."] Mr. WENDLIN-G. Mr. President: While I have all the while been conscious of the faet that the strength of the cause itself would enable me to successfully de fend the vwlidity of this measure, and, although I declared may readiness so to do, when I had the honor of bringing this measure before this distinlguished body, yet, I had hoped that it would not be necessary for me to enter into an argument upon the constitutionality of the measure. I indulged that hope because I am aware that it is extremely difficult, even for one possessing the reputation of a good constitutional lawyer, a reputationl to which I make no pretentious, to) retain attention or avoid the disagreeable 442'; to the relation which a State, i n my opnt - ion, occupies toward the federal govern ment. I hold that a State may, in her sovereign capacity, do whatever she chooses to do, unless prohibited, either expressly or by fair implication, by the federal Constitution. Again, all powers not expressly delegated are reserved to her. And again, upon all questions not regulated by the federal Constitution, a State is sovereign, independent and su preme. These propositions, I presume, will not be disputed. Now, holding in mind the propositions I have stated, let me state another unde niable proposition. A State Legislature is the creature of the people of a State, and derives its powers from the State Constitution. I take it that no gentle. man of the Convention will assert the doctrine that the Constitution of the United States has elevated the Legisla ture of a State above the State Constitu tion or above the people of the State. No one will deny that the people, in State Convention, can govern their Leg islature. Now, sir, these propositions inevitably lead to but one conclusion, a conclusion the truth of which is well illustrated and verified by reference to the history of our government during the period imme. diately preceding the formation of the federal Constitution. I allude to the election of delegates under the articles of confederation. Then the Legislatures had the elective power, and the federal Constitution in that clause, expressing the power of Legislatures to elect United States senators, does not confer the pow er, but simply recognizes it. Without dwelling upon that illustra. tion and without elaborating the argu ment suggested, I will at once state mn conclusion, which is that the power of ratifying amendments is not conferred upon Legislatures, but is recognized as existing in them as the representatives of the people of a State. The power to ratify an amendment to the Constitution of the United States, exists, originally and inherently, in the people of a State, and the Legislature!beiDg the agent of the people, the federal Constitution re. cognizes, but does not confer upon the Leg',slature, the ratifying p,wer. It is true that we cannot confer upon any other body the power of ratifying, because, on entering the union, we agreed to the fifth article of the federal CJonstitu. lion, which, for the sake of uniformity, and becau~se3 a Legislature is recolgnizedl as the representative of the people, restricted us to that particular nude. But does it not follow from the argumnent we lhave stated that we, the people, may prescribe the time when our agents shall ratify? I! not, then the agent has more power than the principal, and the servant is above the master. If not, why then, beyond all doubt, the Legislature is above rev. straint, and call be controlled by nlothing} for it will not be insisted that congress can interfere and prescribe the time, and if neither a lasw of congress nor the State Constitution can restrain the Legislature, no power to restrain exists elsewhere, and the Legislature is sovereign and supreme. The use of the words "when ratified" in the federal Constitution imply a volition on the part of the Legislature, i. i,, the agents whom wve, the people, have the right to control. Why have we not thin right to control the time as well askt 24A-Y 9, 1870. D.El3ATES AX-t) PROCFET)IXGS. 1766 ......................4.....IX ONA But the honorable gentleman from Grundy [Mr. Peirce], in the elaborate and very ingenious argument which he has submitted, tells us that if a State may interfere in this matter at all, even in the slightest degree, it may do so indefinitely and that it a State may delay action for a day, it may for a century. Just here let me say that I take pleasure in recognizing in a complimentary spirit, the skill and research exhibited by that distinguished gentleman throughout his entire argument. If he correctly represents the views of his constituents, they may be congratulated upon having a representative who is faithful and of acknowledged ability. His entire argument, however, is another witness to the fact, proved long ago, that no amount of ability can redeem a cause utterly and wholly bad. With all respect to the gentleman from Giundy, I must say that his argument, that if a State may delay for a day it may for a century, smacks too strongly of the lecture room for these practical times. The reductio ad absurdam is an argument that affords very entertaining recreation to sophomores and juniors who are skilled in the mysteries and technicalities of Hamilton or Whately, but as an argument of practical value, it has long since been discarded. It is metaphysical wit at the expense of practical common sense. Sir, it is not proposed to delay action for a century; hence there is no necessity of inquiring whether we have such power. The proposition to delay until after an election is reasonable; to delay ten years were unreasonable. To delay until after an election, is wise and prudent; to delay ten years, were unwise and imprudent. To delay until after an election, secures to the people an inestimable privilege; to delay a century, would deprive them of that privilege altogether. Now, then, according to the gentleman from Grundy [Mr. Peirce], and to illustrate the practical value of his argument, if we may do that which is reasonable, consequently we may do that which is unreasonable; and if we may do that which is wise and prudent, consequently we may do that which is unwise and imprudent. As an abstract proposition, I am not prepared to say that a State may not defer the action of its Legislature as long as may be desired, but there is no necessity of arguing that point or expressing an opinion upon it. The fact that such a proposition would render worthless a portion of the federal constitution, and be in conflict with its spirit, might perhaps make it unconstitutional and void. However, that is of no consequence now, for there is no such proposition before us. The proposition that we are now considering is in strict harmony with the spirit of the Federal Constitution, will strengthen rather than weaken it, and instead of embarrassing its action will tend to perpetuate its existenee. If the honorable gentleman thinks there is force or weight in that argument, he will be undeceived after he quits the metaphysical atmosphere of this chamber, where syllogisms, postulates and major and minor premises are floating thickly around, and betakes himself into the pure country air, where logic is unknown by name, but convictions come from a free use of common sense. Sir, I would CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION 1766 MONDA.Y I control many other- particulars? Will any delegate here deny that we have the right to direct that it shall require fourfit'tlis of the members to constitute a qu(.)rum to ratify? Or suppose that immedi,ately after the adjournment of a regular session of our General Assembly an amendment is submitted by congress to the States, that the Governor, not approviiag that amendment, will not convene the Legislature by proclamation, but yet the members, on their own motion, and contrary to that clause in our Con,,titution, which provides for their re-assembling only upon proclamation, do nevertheless assemble, and cast their votes in favor of ratifying the proposed amendment-will any gentleman upon this floor insist that that would be a binding ratification? Then, sir, if we have the right to presribe the form and other particulars, the right to prescribe the time follows as an inevitable sequence. Mr. President, I do not insist that a State can dispense with or subtract from the requirements prescribed in the federal Constitution upon any subject, but I do insist that a State may superadd any conditions not inconsistent with those requirements. This'position in this case is strengthened by the consideration that the federal Constitution has regulated the subject only in part, and that the -power to make additional regulations must exist somewhere. The power to make full and !pecific regulations for each State, not beiaig delegated to congress, must remain in the State. Therefore, when a State makes those further regulations, such as manner, place and time, it is no interference, but io the just exercise of %n iuherpat power. Gentlemen of the Convention, let us stop just here for a Single moment, and inquire what, the Legislature of the State of Illinois is? Is it, simply, an aggrega tion of individuals chosen from certain localities as members? Is it, merely, a given number of men who are members by virtue of a majority vote in their respective districts? Certainly not! But it consists of them after they have assem'bled at a!'specified place, at a'specified time, have taken the required oath of office, have repaired to their respective chambers, have elected certain ofucers, and proceed to act unde.rcertain forms like to be there to see, when some of oui constitutional lawyers in this Convention .o home and are asked: "Why are you 9 opposed to glving us time to. vote on amendments to the Federal Constitution?" and the profound reply is made, "Because we do not think we can give you a hundred years!" In the majority report of the Committee on Federal Relations, considerable stress is laid upon what is- assumed to be an analogous case in the Massachusetts Convention of 1820. A more careful examination of that case would have led to the conviction that it is in no respect analogous to the question before us. It was proposed in that Convention to deprive the Legislature of the power of acting in any other than in a certain prescribed direction in regard to electing sodators and representatives. The proposition before the Convention does not affect the discretion of the Legislature when it comes to act upon an amendment, but simply prescribes the time when it may act. In the former case, the Convention proposed to sav what the Legislature should do. In thi case it is proposed that the Convention shall say when the Legislature may act. The former destroyed a discretionary power-the latter simply prescribes a time for the exercise of a discretionary power. The former proposed a.plan for State action, which might have been either in. alliance with or hostility to the general government, because the federal Constitution expressly provides in section four of the first article, that codgrc-ss may alter any laws a State may enact upon that sub ect. The latf er proposes simply to regulate the matter of ratifying amendments in such a manner that no other end may be effected than that the people of a State may not be betrayed by their Legislature. In no resp.,ct are the cases analogous. .,Ur. President, I am surprised that gentlemen of so much intelligence a'D.d apparent candor should inveigh against this measure as an "invasion upon the sphere of the general government." When an amendment is submitted to Illinois, and no ratification can be made until after an election is held, pray tell me, ye politicians, learned in'constitutional lore, how the "sphere of the general goveriament is invaded?" Tell me how it is an interference to ive the eo le time MAY 9, 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDJNGS. 1767 one single adition or altration had ben lead them o indorse it and I beg pr- vote to raify an amendent before a lead them to indorse it, and I beg per mission to call attention to an argument in its favor, from the columns of the lead ing republican paper of central Illinois. I quote from the Bloomington Panta graph: A legislative act must be in accordance with the State Constitution, or it is void and of no effect. The Legislature must have been chosen according to law, must have a quoruhi present, and must be legally empowered to act for the State. What is to prevent a State from providing in its Constitution that ap proval of an amendment shall require a unan imous vote? or that it shall act upon amend ments only on the first or the last day of the session? What is to prevent a provision in the State Constitution providing that the for mal reception of a proposition from congress to pass upon an amendment shall work the instant dissolution of the Legislature? or what is to hinder the State Constitution from prohibiting the Legislature from acting at all upon any proposed amendment? The body is only a Legislature by virtue of the State Constitution, and to have effect in approving an amendment, must act in obedience to the laws of its own creation. If this be not so, then any town meeting may approve as well as it. It is the organ of the people, and the crea ture and subject of their Constitution. And solely by that does it have the authority to approve any amendment under the Constitu tion. That does not organize State Legisla tures, nor say how they shall proceed in approving an amendment. Now, why cannot the Constitution of a State provide that no amendment shall be approved "until the second regular session ofe the General Assembly held after the submis sion of such amendment?" This is not amending the national Constitution, as alleged, on the subject. It is only providing how a thing shall be done which is wholly unrestricted in that instrument; and we do not see how there can be any doubt on the question. The State Constitution organizes the Legislature, determines its numbers and the number necessary to a quorum for different purpo ses, appoints the time for its session and provides in what manner it shall pass all laws and joint resolutions with the force of law; it also gives the Governor power to adjourn the body, under certain circumstances. Why may he not adjourn it sine die, on the presentation by Congress of a proposed amendment? Wh ma not the Constitution provide directly for such an adjournment? Or why may it not provide how long after the amendment is proposed a Legislature may act upon it? niWe predict that the day will come when republicans who now ridicule Mr. Wendling's proposition, will change their views, and think it would have been wise to adopt them. Mr. President, I will not discuss the legal phase of this measure any further. The arguments to be found in its support are, in my humble judgment, unanswerable. The novelty of the question has prevented me from obtaining light upon the subject from any of the great minds of the past, and in the entire histo ry of our country the question has never been raised in its presen' form. A question somewhat analogous, but not strictly so, was raised upon the election of Mr. Trumbull to the United States senate in 1855, and to the discussion which ensued in that body I am indebted for valuable suggestions. But Irepeat, that to an unprejudiced mind the reasoning adduced must carry conviction. But, sir, suppose now that we waive all that has been said, and admit that the federal Constitution does confer upon the Legislature the absolute and unconditional power to ratify whenever it chooses so to do, the measure proposed would nevertheless still be neither impracticable nor useless. We could still place it in our State Constitution, and then our legislators, when they take their solemn oath of office, virtually swear that they will not one single addition or alteration had been made in our federal Constitution, for over a half century? Not a single word was added, nor a syllable stricken out, since the year 1804, until the mad policy of m olding that sacre d i nstru ment to suit party purposes, seized upon the minds of politicians, in 1865 —a period of over sixty years. Will gentlemen tell us that the Constitution is sufficiently guarded from imprudent amendment, when they recall the fact that nine sections have been added in four years? But be that as it may, will gentlemen say that the Legislature of a State should consent to an amendment, unless the people of that State consent? Again, the gentleman from Grundy [Mr. Peirce] has reminded us of what Patrick Henry, whom he calls one of the reputed foundersof the democratic party, once said, in regard to a majority of a community having the right to change the form of their government. This the gentleman tells upon his innocent hypothesis that we complain because too great freedom of amendment exists, under the three-fourths rule. We do not complain, sir, of any such thing. The threefourths rule may, or may not be, the wisest and the best. That, sir, of which the people are tired, and of which the people complain, is the fact that, no matter whether the rule be three-fourths, twothirds, or one-half, nevertheless a Legislature representing the minority of a State, on a given proposition, may betray and outrage the majority, and vote away their consent. Patrick Henry was right, and Patrick Henry spoke the sentiments of the democracy of to-day, when, nearly a century ago, he said that a majority of a community should determine the question. He did not say that an irresponsible set of political tricksters, lost to honor and dead to a sense of shame, should decide for a community what that community should do; but he said, as the gentleman has told us, "a majority of the community" should decide. And that is the exact proposition before us. The sentiment of the democracy of to-day is what it was then-let a majority of the people decide this matter. I would not call up the names of parties, had not the honorable gentleman himself seen fit to speak of the democracy as a party. This measure has no party significance, unless it obtains it by party opposition. I am not authorized, sir, to speak for and on behalf of the great democratic party of this country, but I can tell gentlemen whov call this a "demnocratic measure," thy~ if they are willing to surrender to the democracy the exclusive advocacy of the doctrine that no State should ratify an amendment unless a majo)rity of its people are willing, it will be gladly accepted. If gentlemen desire to hold this proposition withal party lines, let it be so announced, and then let it go forth to the people of Illinois, that the leaders of the radical party are unwilling to let the people decide for themselves upon an amendment to the supreme law that governs them. But, Mr. President, I am impelled by candor and a sense of justice to many intelligent and honest republicans in Illinois to repel the assumptios, on the part of certain of their leaders on this floor, that the republican party is opposed en masse to the measure now beibre us. I know of many whose patriotic impulses vote to ratify an amendment before an election is held, after the amendment is submitted. Mr.'President, that oath will restrain legislators upon -that clause as much as it will restrain them upon any other, and thereby the people will be as secure of its benefits as of any other clause, for if legislators woulzl then vio late the one, they would violate any other provision. In other words, this provision is thereby made as binding as any other provision, and the people have the very same protection they would have if the constitutionality of the provision were not question d. Mr. President, it is my purpose to de tain the Convention but a little while longer. I have listened carefully, and with an unprejudiced mind to all that has been urged against this measure by members of this body, and have seen many of the objections brought forward by the public press, but I have neither seen or heard anything that has caused me to change the views I entertained and expressed when I introduced the propo sition now under discussion. I still be lieve that it is a measure of great import ance, and greatly needed. I still believe that it is a just, practicable, and a con stitutional measure. I still believe that every consideration of patriotism, pru dence, and the most sacred right of the people, require at our hands its adoption. I will not again recite the events which suggested it, nor the dangerous influences which, in my opinion, render it an im perative necessity. When I had the honor of introducing this measure, I alluded to the undeniable fact that there are in this republic, of which Illinois forms a part, and with which her interests are identified, many intelligent, wily and dangerous men, who are plotting for a change in our form of government, and striving to centralize all power in the federal authorities, but can only accomplish their desired end by altering or amending the Constitution of the United States. I endeavored to show that the barriers now protecting the people have a weak point, which is the fact that the federal Constitution can be changed in an hour by partisan or cor. rupt legislatures, without giving the people an opportunity to express their opinions, and even in defiance of the people's will. I disclaimed then, and I do still disclaim, any desire to provoke party feeling. I asked in the name of the people, and I do still ask, that this Convention submit this measure, so that the people-tnot a party, blut the people, the whole people, democrats and republicans alike —may be protected in the future, and guaranteed the enjoyment of their highest privilege. Sir, every thoughtful mnan in this broad State of ours will pause and ask why it is that a party press and the leaders of a party should be arrayed against it. Have they deep, dark and secret plans, to the consummation of which this measure proves a barrier? Have they schemes with which they dare not trust the people? Are they afraid of the people? Have not the people the right; to pass uponl amendments to their supreme organic law? Mr. President, the people are not to be put off by the flimsy pretest that this measure is unconstitutional. I tell the men of this Convention, and tell them MAY 9) 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1767 1768 CoNSTITUTIoNAL COVENTION MONDAY, her representatives here assembled, say to the nation, that revering the federal Con stitutionl, holding it sacred, and regarding above all else the right of the people to govern themselves, no Legislature should ever touch that charter of our rights, except by consent of the sovereign people, and the voice of Illinois will be heard and heeded throughout the republic, and to her will belong the hon( r of inaugurating a measure, the benefit of which, as parties rise and disappear, patriotic men of every political creed will feel and gatefully acknowledge. A word more, and I will yield the floor. In presenting this measure, I have been from the first until this hour, actuated from the single motive which springs from an earnest desire to protect the people and strengthen that Constitution upon which our welfare throughout all the future depends. I feel that I have, in my poor way, done my duty in this respect to the people who have sent me here, and to the people of this, my native State. If this measure is defeated iii this body,and this Convention decides that the people of Illinois shall not have the privilege of voting on amendments to the federal Constitution, I have only to say that those party leaders who would thus cheat the people, will settle the account not with me, but with the people at the ballot box. I move the adoption of the article sub mitted in the minority report. Mr. PEIRCE. Mr. President: At the time of making my report from the Cormmittee on Federal Relations, I took occas i on to present, somewhat in detail, the reasons why it was not deemed proper to insert in the Cons ituti6n of this State a section of the nature and import of that contemplated by the original resolution, presented by the gentleman from Shelby [Mr. Wendling], or that presented by the gentleman from Stephenson [Mr. Turners, both of which were referred to and were carefully considered by the committee. The resolution of the gentleman from Shelby [Mr. Wendling], as originally presented, was as follows: The General Assembly shall not ratify any amendment to the Constitution of the United States until after the second general election for members of the General Assembly shall have taken place, after such amendmeti shall have been proposed by congress. The purpose of this proposition is evi dently to provide, by State enactments, that any amendment which congress may propose to the Legislatures of the several States, in accordance with the provisions, of the Constitution of the United States upon that subject, shall not be acted upon for a term of from two to six years. The article as now presented by the minority of the Committee on Federal Relations is somewhat modified, and toned down from the high ground originally taken by the gentleman, and graciously permits the Legislature elected next succeeding the Legislature in existence, when an amendment to the Consti tution of the United- States is proposed by Congress, to act upon such amendment. It is somewhat difficult to determine how long a delay the minority in tend to enforce upon the Legislature of this State, by this section, before an amendment can be ratified to the federal constitution. As our State Constitution provides for a General Assembly consist CONSTIT'UTIONAL CONVENTION 3101'TDAY, 1768 iDg of two branches, a senate and a house of representatives, the latter wich a two years term, the former with a term of four years, one-half holding over each biennial election, if the minority mean to assert that a member of the Gener-tl As. sembly elected prior to the submission by CoDgress of the proposed amendment, to the Constitution of the United States, shall be disqualified from acting upon the question of the ratification or rejection of such amendment, then they inter.d to effect a delay of from two to four years. If, on the other hand, it is their onlv purpose to require that the house of representatives and one,half of the mem. bers of the senate only, shall be elected after such amendment is proposed',)y Congress, a supposition which may be fairly made from the ladguage of the, proposed section, but wliicti destroys the force of all the high sounding arguments made in favor of the sectir)n, then they mean only a delay of two years, before the Geiaerttl Assembly n-iav exercise a power conferred upou it, laoe bv the Conbtitutio.u of the State of Illinois, but by the fifth article of the Constitution of the United States. It matters not, however, whether it be the iDteiiLion of this section to prohibit the ratification of amendments to the ft,,deral Constitution for a term of two year S, or for a term of six years: it is to my mind equally clear that it is neither necessary, expedient or competent for this body to attem'pt in any mander to limit, fetter or restrict the Legislature in the exercise of a discretion which iscoriferred upon them by a paramount Constitu'tioll, a Constitution which is ordaiued by the people of the United States, and which declares that "this Cotistitution, and the laws of the United States which shall be made in pursuance thereof, and all trea. t'es made or which shall be made uader the authority of the Uilited States, still be the supreme law of the land, ad the judg,es in every State shall be bound ttier,uby-anything in the Constitut'on or laws of any State to the contrar, iiot. withstandiijg." It is unnecessary now to repeat any of the arguments presented on a former occasion upon- this subject, but I will call attention simply to the two leading propoi sitions which the gentleman, I coiceive, t erl fai to is r plainly, that they cannot deceive the people by asserting that they approve its theory but oppose its practice. You may talk till the crack of doom to this great, intelligent and free people about the fifth articl of the federal Constitutior. depriviug them of their dearest, best and highest right, and.they will laugh you to scorn. You may tell them they can be governed by laws made without their consent, and tell them of it until the stars fall, but they will spurn your pretexts and scout your enslaving doctrine. Are the people of this grand federation of seven and thirty Sovereign States the miserable and helpless victims of the Legisl.atures that happen to be in existence when an amendment to the federal Constitution is proposed? Are they the plan,tlliugs and footballs of scliemidg partisaiis? Are they forbidden the inestimable right to say if tl-iis or that shall form a part of their fundamental law? As an American citizen, I repel such a thought as a reflection, a base reflection, upon the wise patriots who framed our federal Constitution; and as lono, as I have a right arm to raise and a tongue to speak, wiil I fight agaitist.,-uch a cringing, cowardly, and subversive doctrine. Go home, you who oppose this measure because it has the riiig of true democracy in it; go home, if you dare, and tell your people that a measure giving practical ,ct to the great fundamental principle on whiel-i this government is buil"-the principle that government derives its just powers from the consent of the governed-is unconstitutional I Go home and tell them that a measure which guarantees to the people one of the right,,,, to protect which the federal Constitution was ordained, is in con-fliet with the federal Constitution, and prate to them of constitutional law to defend your vote, and even the unlearned, but honest plougli-boys of our praires will turn in their furrows and laugh at your shallow pretense! Go to your homes and tell the men who sent you here, that a measure in perfect. harmony with the spirit of the federal CODSti.tUtiOD, violates the letter of the federal Constitution, and my word for it, they will scout your sophistry, der,pise your teachings and suspect your honesty! Sir, we have nearly flnished the task as MA 9, 180 EAE N RCEIG.16 box, and decided in accordance with the wishes of the majority. This it would be clearly within our power cs a Constitutional Convention to do. Why, then, neglect this real evil, this actual abuse, which it is within our legitimate province to correct, and declaim about imaginary evils or prospective abuses, which are entirely without the sphere of our duties, and trenching upon the authority conferred upon the Legislature by a paramount Constitution? That the Constitution of the State can give binding direction to the Legislature, relating to all matters of State legislation, there can be no doubt; butlthat we can take away or deny the exercise of a power or a discretion entrusted to the Slat e Legislature by the federal Constitution is more than questionable. Common prudence then would dictate that we leave the consideration of imaginary dangers which are not w thin our province, and apply ourselves more completely to the care of such real evils as are within our reach. The gentleman from Shelby [Mr. Wendling] seems disposed to deny my proposition that the authority by virtue of which a State Legislature acts in the ratification of an amendment to the Constitution of the United States, is derived solely and only from that venerable instrument itself. To my mind it seems clear that it is derived from the fifth article of the federal Constitution, which is in these words: Congress, whenever two-thirds of both houses shall deem it necessary, shall propose amendments to this Constitution, or on the application of the Legislatures of two-thirds of the several States shall call a Convention for proposing amendments, which, in either case, shall be valid to all intents and purposes, when ratified by the Legislatures of threefourths of the several States, or by Conventions in three-fourths thereof, as the one or the other mode of ratification may be proposed by congress. If this is not the authority under which the Legislature of a State acts in its ratification or rejection of an amendment, will the gentleman please tell us from whence it comes? If this be not the true source of that power, will he please to point out the true source? Can he point to any other allusion to the subject either in a State or the federal Constitution? Clearly, then, it is conferred by the Constitution of the United States in the language just quoted, and is conferred unlimited and unrestricted. Will the gentleman contend that the Legislatures of three-fourths of the several States could ratify an amendment without the clause which I have quoted? One other point is worthy of notice inl this connection. It will be observed that in the section read, the language is, that such amendments "shall be valid to all intents and purposes as part of this Constitution when ratified by the Legislatures of three-fourths of the several States." Now the Legislatures of the States are many times alluded to in the Constitution ofthe United States, and always as an existing and continuing body. The reference is to the existing Legislature, and it is clearly the intent and meani ng of the Constitution, that whenever Con m gress shall, in a constitutional manner and by a constitutional vote of two-thirds, recommend or submit to the Legislatures of the several States for their approval, an amendment to the Constitution, that the submission is in fact to the then existing Legislature; and the power and authority of ratification may be proposed by Congress. It seems clear, therefore, that no amendments can be made except such as are favorably regarded by the large mass of the people. But the gentleman from Shelby [Mr. Wendling] complains that a Legislature elected before anamendment is proposed, may not fairlv erepresent the wishes of the people with reference to the adoption or rejection of such amendment. Hence he proposes that the matter shall in all cases lie over until a new Legislature is elected upon the direct question involved in such amendment-in other words, that a legislative body should not be permitted to act upon any question until that question has been made an issue in the election of members of the Legislature. Does not the gentleman see that this theory carries him much too far-that it would defeat all practical legislation-that it makes of the legisla. tive body not a reasoning, deliberative body, entrusted with the power and responsibility of weighing reasons, estimat ing advantages, and decreeing results, but merely an unthinking machine by which the decree already decided is to be registered? Under his theory of government, no Legislature could act upon and decide more than one measure during its official life. Every new question would require a new election. I-is ideas of government are clearly crude and impracticable. Leg islative bodies are elected upon the theory that they possess enough of intelligence, virtue and- knowledge of the wants and interests of their constituency to exercise discretion, and assume the responsibility of deciding, not only such matters as may have been discussed before the people, and put in issue in their election, but all other questions that may arise or be presented for their consideration during their official terms. In no other way can governments be carried on. Much of the gentleman's declamation has been devoted to an appeal or a demand for, as he says, a "clause in our new Constitution by which the people may be protected from the fraud that can now be perpetrated by a Legislature in ratifying amendments to the Federal Constitution to which the people may be opposed." Does the gentleman not remember that the Legislature may pass any number of laws to which the people are opposed, if they are indifferent to the wishes of the people? Does he not know that there is far greater danger of the abuse of their law-making power, than of their power to ratify amendments? D~oes he not know that while no wrong, hardship or injustice has ever yet occurred in the exercise of the power of Legislatures to ratify amendments to the Federal Constitution, but, on the contrary, great good, yet injustice and wrong have been committed during the legislative history of every State in innumerable instances in the exercise of its law making power? And yet 1 do not see that the gentleman is moving in the direction of requiring, by constitutional provision, that every bill presented to the General Assembly shall lie over until after a general election for members of the General Assembly, so that the merits of each bill may be made a question in issue before the electors at the ball~ 443 DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. MA.Y 93 1870. 1769 conferred by the fifth article of the Constitution of the United States to ratify such amendment, is conferred upon the Leaislatures in existence at the time of the submission by Congress, and conditionally upon its successors. The Constitution confers upon that Legislature the power to ratify, to rej ect or to postpone such amendment. The power of succeeding Legislatures to act upon an amendment has several times been the subject of controversy, but the power of the first Legislature is, I believe, undisputed. In 1865 a question arose in Kentucky as to whether an amendment which had been constitutionally proposed by Congress to the Legislature, and rejected, could afterwards be passed upon by a subsequent Legislature and a different action be taken. Governor Bramlette, in his message to the Legislature of March lst, 1865, after citing the provisions of the Constitution of the United States, said: "When ratified by the Legislatures of the several States the question will be f:tnally withdrawn, aud not before. Until ratified, it will remain an open question for the ratification of the Legislatures of the several States. When ratified by the Legislature of a State, it will be final as to such State, and when ratifled by the Legislatures of three-fourths of the several States, will be final as to all. Nothii3g but ratification forecloses the right of action; when ratified, all power s expended; until ratified the right to ratify remains." This is doubtless thp sound and Constitutional doctrine clearly and concisely expressed. The power to ratify is clearly and unequivocally conferred upon the Legislature in existence when -the amendment is proposed by Congress, an(,' conditionally upon succeeding Legislatures. The article recommended by the minorit,y of your committee proposes to take away from the Legislatures existing when amendments shall be proposed, all. power and authority to act in the Premises. In other words, this article propose& to take away from a determinate body of men a power or discretion with which theConstitution of the United States has invested them. This is the point of the CODfliCt. The gentleman from Shelby [Mr. 177Q CONSTITUTIONAL CONYENTION MONDAY, stitution of the United States, and I am equally clear that we had better not attempt it. The gentleman in his speech takes exception to the reference made in my report, to the precedent set by the ConventioL of Massachusetts in 1820, with the opinions to which I referred, of Judge Story and Daniel Webster, and claims lto be unable to see the analogy between the cases. With the highest respect for the gentleman's opinions I must beg leave to insist that the questions are strictly analogous and only differ in this, that the section proposed by the minority of this committee, is liable to the same objection, that rested against the resolution of Mr. Austin, in the Massachusetts Convention, but in a much greater degree. The resolution of Mr. Austin proposed to take away by Constitutional provision, one only, of the methods which are entrusted to the State Legislature by the federal Constitution of providing for the election of representatives in Congress and presidential electors, i e., it proposed to limit their discretion by prescribing one method only in which they should be permitted to act in that matter, but the proposition of the minority of this committee is to declare in our Constitution that a certain Legislature, and that the very body to whom Congress submits the question, and to whom the Constitution of the United States entrusts all discretion in the premises, shall not act upon such question at all, shall not exercise their authority in any manner. The one proposition was a limitation of the discretion of the legislators, but this is an emphatic denial-and I insist that the able opinions of Story and Webster of the unconstitutionality of the resolution of Mr. Austin, apply only with greater force against this section of the minority. If that resolution was unconstitutional, which the gentleman has not the assurance to deny, then there is no escape from the conclusion that this proposition is equally so. The gentleman fromn Shelby [Mr. Wendling] quoted with much gratification, the remarks of a republican paper in Central Illinois in favor of his proposition, and clearly intimates that the republican party will hereafter find this section of his greatly to its advantage. It is difficult to understand the reason for the gentleman's zeal for the future success of the. republican party, and especially difficult to reconcile that zeal with the violent attack which he made upon it on the occasion of his debut upon the floor of this Convention, because of the ratification of the Fifteenth Amendment. With reference to his quotation, I can only say that it is doubtless the off-hand jotting of a first impression, and can hardly be regarded as the result of mature deliberation and established conviction. In passing, I must be permitted to remark, that the republican party, much as it has been charged to the contrary, does not, and never has stood ready to violate the Constitution or law of the land for the sake of party advantages. I have not failed to notice upon this floor repeated, and as yet unanswered ac cusations of the enemies of that party of its disregard of the federal Constitution, and I have only this to say, by way of a g e neral reply, that, when it is remember CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION IffONDAY) 1770 stitution, and then, as the members of the Legislature are required to take an oath to support the Constitution of the State, they will be required to observe this provision, whether it conflicts with the Constitution of the United States or not. Does the gentleman forget that the members of the Legislature are also required to take an oath to support the Constitution of the United State,3? Indeed, does he not remember that we ourselves are under an oath to support the Constitution of the United States? How then can we insert an articte in the Constitution of this State which is in conflict with the Constitution of the United States? How, too, can we require of the members of future Legislatures, that they take an oath to support two instruments, with conflicting provisions as to the exercise of a duty which may at any time de-iolve upon them? The gentleman would make the office of legislator as undesirable for a conscientious man as that of assessor. The gentleman must bear in mind, that the members of the Legislature will hardly be permitted to take the oath, as it'Was administered in this Coiovention at its opening, with the Indiarubber attachment. But let us suppose, for the sake of seeiDg where this article would lead us, that it be inserted in the Constitution and ratified by the peoldle, and that the next L?gislature should find, upon assembling, that Congress had regularly submitted to them a sixteenth amendment, and that that Legislature should think, as I think, that their dutv under.their oath to sup. port the Costitution of the United States required them to exercise the discretion conferred by the fifth article of that Constitution, and should ratify the ,-aid sixteenth amendment, and the same being ratified by three-fourths of the several States (Illinois included in the threefourths), should be proclaimed as "valid to all intents and purposes," then and in that case I desire to know what the gentleman from Shelby [Mr. Wendling] would do about it? The gentleman, it seems to me. is laboring under'a grievous mistake when he asserts that "the power to ratify an amendment to the Constitution of the United States exists or iaally and inher. entry in the people a State." This ed that during its administration of the pu'blic affairs, we have passed through the most terrible revolution of modern times, it is a matter of world-wide wonder, that it has been able to save the government from destruction, preserve the 'Union from dismemberment, restore the bondmen to liberty, and keep pace with the new and exalted ideas of the age, with so little departure from a strict construction of the organic law. The gentleman from Shelby [Mr. WendliDg] expresses, as he did on a former occasion, great apprehension and alarm lest "intelligent but wily, scheming and dangerous men" shall succeed in effecting a - centralization of all power in the federal government. There seems to be a g,-,Deral expression of alarm among a certain class of politicians in our country lest the general government sha.1 usurp so great a'degree of authority as to destroy of State governments, and establish in their stead Olne Consolidated government, in which all State lines will be obliterated, all local laws and local institutions disregarded, and the whole assemblage of American States thrown into hotch-potch with on-e central power, supreme over all the land! This, sir, is the raw head and bloody bones which continues to haunt a certain class of men by day and bv night, as it has done from the days of the revolution to the present time, and I am sorry to learn that my friend from Shelby [Mr. WendliDg] has had a visitation of - this frightful apparition. Sir, I do not share in this general alarm. I have no fear of a consolidated government upon the ruins of these States. I entertain no apprehension that State lines will ever be obliterated, or universal empire be establish,ed. I think, sir, that the tendency is still and ever has been, since the founding of the republic, in the opposite direction. State pride, local jealousies, the greater familiarity of the people with, and greater interest in the affairs of their local than the general government, are still a's they have ever have thus far been, constantly and strongly coutiteractinginfluences operating against any real or supposed danger of aggression by the federal authorities. Indeed, sir, all the dangers which have threatened the country from first to last, MAY 9, 1870. DEBATES AD PROCEEDIXGS. 1771 the local prejudices of the land against the federal government, and again commence to declaim about the dangers of a consolidated government? When shall we have an end of the denunciations of cross-road politicians against the usurpations of the federal government, and of schemes for State restriction upon the legitimate authority of the federal constitution? The yeas and nays were ordered, and being taken, resulted-yeas, 23, nays, 33 -as follows: by flay of explanation, in relation to the actio n of the committee upon th is section, which was referred to them. There had been an amendment adopted by the Convention, providi ng that ther e sho uld be but twenty five per cent. on t he redempti on of re al estate sold for taxes. It was thought by the comm itt ee, and I believe unanimously, that it would be bette r to leave that provision to the a ction of the Legislature to determin e, as t hey do now, wha t shall be the law in relation to the red emption of r eal e s tate s old for t axes. Consequently, in the sixth se ction, they have mr ede no amendment to the actio n of the Committee on Revenue, except by providing for personal notice upon individ uals, requirin g p ersonal notice to be served upon the occupant before the time of redemption expir es. The other two sections which were referred to the Committee on FinanCe, in relation to the limitation of the Legislature in assessing State taxes, and the county boards, in assessing county taxes, the committee have taken action upon. It will be seen by the report that the Legislature is limited in the amount of State taxes, they have a right to assess, to seventy-five cents on the bundred dollars, for the period of five years; and after that, not to exceed fifty cents'on the hundred dollars. In the judgment of the committee, there is no measure upon which the Convention could act, that would give more general satisfaction to the tax-payers of the State, than to have some restriction upon the power of taxation, not only by the State, but by the county authorities. It was thought that it was advisable to retain seventy.five cents upon the hundred dollars, for the period of five years, in order to enab.e the State to successfully complete the various improvements which have been inaugurated under the auspices of the last Legislature. A computation was made by the committee in conference with the chief clerk of the Auditor's office. It is believed that, with the tax nownassessed-two years, at seventy-five cents on the one hundred dollars taxation-would be sufficient to discharge all the extraordinary indebtedness incurred by reason of the action of'the last Legislature. It is proper, perhaps, to say that, in round numbers, the taxable property of the State, as valued within the last few years, amounts to almost $500,000,000;* that we are paying at the present timle a tax of thirteen mills on the dollar, for State purposes, which will raise this year, over and above the -expenses of collection and deductions, about $6,000,000. Mr. HAINES, of Cook.'Over and above what. the Illinois Central road pays? Mir. ROSS. Yes; independent of everything to be derived from the Illinois, Central Railroad. It will give about $6,000,000. This assessment will continue for two years, which will give $il,000,000 or $12,000,000 State revenue. Fior the present year there will have to be about $3,000,000 of the fund taken for the purpose of applying to the.payment of the State debt. Mr. HAY. Do I understand that the two-mill tax will cease with the present assessment? Mr. ROSS. Yes, sir; we got that information froml the Auditory-that the -two mill tax for the payment of theftate Abbott, Anderson, Browning, Cameron, Cody, Cummings, Ellis, Forman, refusal to gr ant to the confederation the power to levy du ties upon imposts, this power having been persistently'refused, although strongly urg ed by the congress of the confederation as indispensably necessa ry t o the ex istenc e of a general government. A f t er it ha d become evident to the most uaobserving that the Union must of necessity fall to pieces by reas on of its own inefficiency, and that the experiment of A meric an lib erty was in imminent d anger of proving a failure, th e wise and thoughtful men of the ag e, succ eeded, by dint of persisten t effort, i in inducing the approval of the States to a call for a Convention to propose amendments to the articles of confederation. It was only by taking a long and dangerous step in advance of their legitimate authority, by an astonishing assumption of responsibility, that that Convention at length decided to recommend and urge upon the States the adoption of a plan for a general government, consisting of three departments, and declared to be the supreme law of the land. When pre sentecl it met with the most violent opposition, and required all the genius and learning of Madison and Hamilton and Adams and Jefferson, together with the magic name of Washington, to secure its ad,)ption. But once adopted, there seemed, for a period of forty years, to be a pretty general acquiescence in the new order of things. State jealousy, however, was not idle; the same dangerous sentiment was still at work, fostered and stimulated by the appeals of demagogues and politicians of diminutive calibre, and we find in 1832, in South Carolina, an effort was made to assert the supremacy of a State government, under the plausable watchword of "State rights," which culminated in the famous ordinance, nullifying an act of congress. The firmness of Jackson and the genius of Webster were sufficient to arrest any serious disaster, and the federal authority was not seriou,ly endangered. Though compelled to accept the situation, the heresy of State supremacy, with its kindred dogma of paramount allegiance to the State government, continued to grow and spread, and soon came to be the political faith of those persons throughout a large section of! he republic who took pride in calling themselves democrats. It grew and strengthened upon local jealousies and sectional preju dices, until it overspread half a score of populous and fertile states, and proved the living spirit of secession and rebel — lion. The most desperate and bloody conflict of modern times was its fruitage. The expenditure of four billions of treasure, and the sacrifice of half a million brave men, is the price paid to suppress a rebellion, made po)ssible by fostering local jealousies, and instilling the heresy of State supremacy —by exciting the fars of the ignorant lest the states should be swallowed up by federal usurpations. H~as not this monstrous dec. trine —the child of ignorance and prejudice, the watchword of demagogues, and the bane of our country —cost us enough already! When the smoke of battle has hardly yet cleared up, and the bellowing echoes of hostile cannon have scarcely ceased to reverberate upon our mountains, must men again, fbr the sake of local popularity, commener to fan into a finmenall So the mot ion of Mr. Wendling, to adopt the article submitted in the minority report, was not agreed to. ORDER OF BUSINESS. The PRESIDENT. Several sections of the revenue article are lying upon the table. One has been referred to the Committee on Schedule and two others have been committed to the Committee on Finance. Mr. WHEATON. Mr. President: I move to take up those provisions of the revenue article, now upon the table, dispose of them, and that the Committee on Finance be d.rected to report. The PRESIDENT. There is a pending proposition to take up the report of the Committee on.Accounts and Expenditures. The report will be received if no objection is made, and will be read. STATE TAXES. Mr. ROSS. Mr. President: The Committee on Finance, to whom was referred sundry matters relating to revenue and finance, beg leave to present the following report. The Secretary read the report, as follows: SEc. -. That until the year 1875, the State taxes shall not exceed seventy-five cents per hundred dollars, and thereafter shall not ex ceed fifty cents per hundred dollars, unless authorized by a vote of the electors of the State. SEc.-. County authorities shall never assess taxes, the aggregate of which shall exceed seventy-five cents per one hundred dollars valuation, except for the payment of indebtedness existing at the adoption of this Constitution, unless authorized by a vote of the people of the county. Mr. ROSS. Mr. President: It is proper, perhaps, that I should say a word I MAY 9, 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1771 YEAS. Fox, Hankins, King MeDwell, Neece, -Rice, Ross, Sharp, Snyder, V,,tudeventer, Wall, Washburn, Wendling, Wilson, Wright-23. NAYS. Haines ofCook,Pill.sbury, Haines ofLake,Sedzwick, Hay, Shirill, McCoy, Sprii3ger, Medill, Sutherl,,tnd, Merriam, Tincher, Moore, Truesdale, Parker, Tubbs, Parks, Underwood, Perley, Wheaton, Peirce, Whiting-33. Anthony, Bayne, Benjamin, Bromwell, Cary, Church, Cross, Fuller, Gamble, Goodell' Goodhue, ABSENT, OR NOT VOTING. Allen of Alxln,Craig, Allen of Cwfld'Dement, Archer, IEldredge, Atkins, English, Bowman, Hanna, Brown, Hart, Bryan, Harwood, Buxton, Hayes, Coolbaugh, Hildrup, Poage, Robinson, Scholfield, Skinner, Turner, Wagner, Wart,. Wells, Mr. President-27. 1q72 ()OSTITUTIOAL OOVENTIO MoNDAY, debt would cease with the present assess ment. It is then estimated that to defray the ordinary expenses of the State government will require about $1,000,000 a year; that for this purpose, on the present valuation, between twenty and twenty-five cents on the $100 will be required. If you add to that twenty cents on the $100, for school purposes,it would make it forty-five cents on the $100, taking the highest estimate, though the Auditor thinks that twenty cents cn the $100 would probably be sufficient to pay the e xpenses of the State government over and above the expense of collecting. Hence, the Committee on Finance has recommended a limitation on the State, in assessing State taxes for five years from-the present time to fifty cents on the $100, which we think will be amply sufficient and more than enough at tile present rate of taxation. But, Mr. President, it is a significant fact that our valuation in this State does not exceed one-third the actual value of the property-the Auditor thinks only about one-fourth-but to be entirely safe we will call it one-third. This would make the actual value of the taxable property of the State $1,500,000,000. A tax of ten cents on the hundred dollars in the State of Illinois, upon the actual valuation of the property, should be sufficient to pay all the expenses of the State government, including the keeping up of the public institutions of charity under the charge of the State. But, sir, it is another significant fact that after the public debt is paid and the revenues derived from the gross proceeds of the Illinois Central railroad are paid into the State treasury, upon the actual value of the taxable property of the State, seven cents on a hundred dollars should be ample to pay the entire expenses of the State government, and leave a balance in the treasury. Every one can see how much more desirable it would be if we could fall upon some plan to value the property of the State at its true value. It would give us credit at home and abroad for $1,500,000,000 of taxable property instead of $500,000,000, and instead of having the reproach upon the State of paying thirteen mills upon the dollar of taxable property, we could, with the revenues iromn the Illinois Central Railroad, show to the world Illinois paying seven cents upon $100 for State purposes. It is proper I should state, also, that we learn from the Auditor, that quite recently the Illinois and Michigan canal has paid, in full, the interest upon that debt, and has paid in discharge of the debt, ten per cent. of the principal, and that after this year, it will not be necessary to raise any further means for the purpose of paying the State debt proper, as it will be discharged by means of the revenues from the Illinois Central railroad. But, in our estimate we have, in order -to be certain to not embarras~s the operation of the State government, or tie up the hands of the Legislature, so we could not successfully carry on the business of the State governiment, made our estimate upon the present estimated valuation of the taxable property of the State. We would be glad to have the valuation brought up to the actual value of thetkaxable property of the State, so that persons seeking Illinois as ~home msight know that we ha ve $1,500,000,000 of taxable p roperty instead of $500,000,000, the rate at whic h it is now assessed. The PRESIDENT. The rep ort will lie upon the table. The Chair desi res to call the attention of the committee to the fact that secti on two of the report of the Committee upon Revenue was also committed to the Committee upon Finance. Mr. ROSS. I think this is all the Secretary handed us. But if i; was referred to us, I be g the pard on of the Co n ven tion for overlooking it, and th e committe e will consider it and report this afternoon. The PRESIDENT. The question now before the Convention is upon the motion to take up the report of the Committee upon Accounts and Expenditures, relating to appropriations relating to the new State house. NEW STATE HOUSE. Mr. CHURCH. Mr. President: I desire to call up the report of the Committee on Accounts and Expenditures, upon the new State house. The PRESIDENT. The door-keeper will see to the distribution of the reports. Mr. ROSS. Mr. President: I will move the postponement of the further consideration of the propositions from the Finance Committee till after dinner. Then I will call for a vote upon the fifth section. The PRESIDENT. The order will be made, and the subject postponed until afternoon. The Secretary will read the proposition from the Committee on Accounts and Expenditures. The Secretary read the proposition from the Committee on Public Accounts and Expenditures, as follows: ARTICLE -. SECTION -. The General Assembly shall not appropriate out of the State treasury, or expend on account of the new capitol grounds and State house, a sum exceeding in the aggregate, three and a half millions of dollars, inclusive of all appropriations heretofore made, without first submitting the proposi. tion for an additional expenditure to the legal voters of the State, at a general election; nor unless a majority of all the votes cast at such election shall be for the proposed additional expenditure. Mr. CHURCH. Mr. President: I have nothing further to say more than I stated prior to the introduction of the report. The committee regarded the sum here expres sed as ample to cover all the necessary appropriations. M y own opinion is, that the amount here named will prove sufficient for all purposes of completing the State house according to the estimates, and all necessary expenses which are to be incurred in furnishing it. I will move to amend by inserting after the word "State house," in the second line, the words "furnishing the same." The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the amendment proposed by the gentleman from McHenry [Mr. Church.] Mr. WHITING. Mr. President: I am not certain but a proposition of this sort in the Constitution may be well enough, but there are a few facts connected with this subject that. perhaps ought to go along with the action of the Convention in regard to it. The probability is that the Constitution we are about to submit to the people will really be more prejudiced from what has been said here, than from anything in the Constitution itself. It will be remembered that during the early part of ou r session, there were very seri ous, and I m ay say, almost constant animadversions upon almost everything that had been done by several preceding Legisl atures. The various necessities and charities of the State even, t hat had been provided for in accordance with necessim ty, and the dict ate s of humanity, were, by leading members of the Convention, con. demned as "outrages." The appr opria. tion of four hundred thousand dollars for the improvement of the Illinois river, which will nearly double the capacity and value of the canal, was characterized as a "steal." The provision for carrying on the new State house was also severely condemned. Now, this Convention stands to-day relatively in the same condition as the last Legislature. The State house had been provided for by law when the last Legislature met, and a large amount expended upon it. That Legislature, fearing the-law was too lax, dismissed every officer connected with it, and provided for new ones under proper safeguards. They further enacted as follows: SEC. 2. For the purpose of economy to the State, the said new Statehouse commissioners upon and as soon as they shall have entered upon the duties of their said office, or within a reasonable time thereafter, shall furnish to the commissioner and the warden of the penitentiary of the State of Illinois, located in Joliet, in the county of Will, in said State, full, complete and perfect plans and specifications, in detail, of the said Statehouse, and whatever materials and all kinds of materials,ofevery name and nature whatever-stone, iron, labor, and all else which said penitentiary commissioners and said warden can furnish towards the full completion of said Statehouse the said new Statehouse commissioners shall procure, and from no other place, for and to be used in the completion of the said new Statehouse: Provided, The Chicago, Alton & St. Louis railroad company will transport over their road the stone and materials at a reasonable rate. The price of said labor and materials, and everything else procured at the said penitentiary, shall be fixed and estimated by the new Statehouse architect, subject to the approval of the Governor and commissioners. SEC. 3. The said commissioners shall cause to be prepared a full, explicit, perfect and complete set of plans and specifications of the entire proposed building, embracing every part of the same, including the materiai to be used, which shall be accompanied with estimates, carefully made, of the cost thereof, which shall not exceed thesumof three millions of dollars over and above what has now been expended. And when said plans and specifications shall have been prepared, said commissioners shall notify the members of the committees on public buildings and State library of the senate and house of representativtes to meet at Springfield, on a day to be fixed by them, for the purpose of ex~amining said plans and specifications;* and if approved by said committees, then said commissioners shall be authorized to proceed with the construction of said new Statehouse. And said commissioners are hereby prohibited from expending, or contracting to expend, or agreeing to expend any further sum of money, or any part of the appropriation by this act hereby appropriated, excepting the necessary expenses in preparing the plans, specifications and detailed estimates, and the expenses incident thereto, until the said committee8 shall authorize the same. I only wish to call attention to the fact that this very Legislature did by enactment, what we propose to do to-day. So it will be seen that the charge that the action of the last Legislature was loose, careless and corrupt has n1o foundation in regard to the Statehouse. It is proposed to do now just what they did then. I have read this law to show that the last CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION 1772 MONDAY, MAY 9,1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1773 to whether or not we had not embarked upon a limitless job in the way of build iing a new State house it may be d(sira ble to set that at rest by a constitutional limitation. These things are to be considered, and if it shall be the sense of the Conven tion that, on account of this uneasiness in the public mind, the amount of expendi ture to be incurred upon this building should be limited, I shall not oppose the adoption of this section. At the same tinme we ought probably to consider that the building has been un dertaken and the plans perfected under the most jealous restrictions that could be imposed by law. I would here state in regard to that law, and I think the gen-t tieman from Bureau [Mr. Whiting] will concur with me in my recollection about it. that the last law was dictated by the opponents of the original scheme. It has proceeded so far, under the most jealous supervision of both the Legislature and of the public, and I believe is now progressing satisfactorily. As it. is well known, the Legislature, not satisfied with the original estimates of the architect, caused those estimates to be submitted to the most competent architects that could be selected, and we have their estimates of the cost of the work in addition to that of the architect in charge. Contracts to a large extent have been entered into, according to the plans and estimates of these architects, and thus it becomes a necessity now to carry on the building according to the plans and estimates now made of it. The appropriations already made are about $1 100,000, and contracts have been entered into which will probably consume the amount of appropriations made, by the time they are put into the shape of construction in this building. I am satisfied with what the chairman has informed us, that the estimate here made leaves a reasonable margin, as I understand him, upon the estimate already made-and no unnecessary margin. We all know that in the construction of these large buildings, matters occur that it is not possible to foresee, alwavs, that the building can be carried out exactly according to the original plan and estimates. Variations are sometimes suggested, and become necessary in the progress of a building. Accidents may occasionally happen, that, probably, ought to be sufficiently provided for in any restriction that we make-a and hence, it would not be advisable to make the margin unnecessarily close. Mr. CHURCH. I sill state that it was the intention of the committee to allow a very reasonable margin. Our information was that when the act was originally passed, it was contemplated that the whole cost should not exceed $3,000,000. This was in 1867. In 1869, an additional act was passed that the cost should not exceed $3,000,000. in addition to what had been appropriated or expended before, which was $450,000, and the contracts that have been made' with reference to these estimates, satisfy the committee, and have, I think, satisf i ed the State house commissioners, that the building can be constructed consid w erably inside of the estimates (which are $2,737,000 and some odd hundreds), and that the grounds and expenses of commissioners, overseers, architects, etc., cannot in any event bring the total be yond the amount named in this section. Legislature preceded this Convention ill erecting safe-guards. The v ery p rovision which it is now proposed to engraft in the C onstitution, is alre a dy the law of the land. I do not object to its being also a constitutional provision, if thought necessary. i have made these remarks because if this constitutional provision were included without calling the attention of this Convention, and of the country, to this act, it might be regarded by the people in the light of another effort to indict the last Legislature. Mr. SPRINGER. Mr. President: There is one objection to that article and that is Mr. CHURCH. Mr. President: Will the gentleman give way to an amendment? There is another word to be inserted. I wish to make it read, "completion and furnishing of the Statehouse." Mr. SPRINGER. Mr. President: That amendment obviates a very strong objection I had to the article. The objection I have to limiting these appropriations in the Constitution is simply this: If it should happen that there should be a little more money needed to complete the State house, it seems to me that it would be a very circuitous rout to wait for the people to vote an appropriation for that purpose. It is sometimes difficult to get the people to see exactly the necessity of making appropriations, and as they cannot be personally acquainted with the facts, would have to vote on some person's advice, and constitute a body to dispose of their money. I think this question could be trusted to the Legislature. The words inserted by the gentleman remove the very strong objection that I had to it. As it stood before, if a fire had occurred, this provision would have prevented the completion of the building. I think the building ought to be completed, and that when completed, it will be a monument to the enterprise, intelligence and public spirit of this State. Mr. HAY. Mr. President: I understood the gentleman from McHenry [Mr. Church] to agree to a verbal amendment that I proposed, and to which I will call the attention of the Convention, to come in in the second line — This we consider as containing enough to make a margin, and guard against the accidents that have been mentioned by the gent leman fro m Madiso n [Mr. Springer], and also the gentleman romt Sangamon [Mr. Hay.] It was not the desire of any member of the committee to embarrass the State house commissioners in any aption naeces sary for the construction and completion of the State house upon the plan and specifications which they are now engaged in completing. The committee did not feel authorized to go back and inquire into the reasons why these grounds were abandoned and this State house sold, as that was a past transaction, not within the power of the Convention to recall, and not within their proper province to review. A large amount of money has now been expended; a magnificent building has been commenced and the foundation laid; $1,100,000 has been appropriated, and mostly either expended, or so con tracted for that it will be expended pre vious to the next meeting of the General Assembly; and while I offer this morning the amendment that the amount specified shall includle the furnishing of the build ing, it is by reason of our supposing the margin to be so liberal that it would also cover the furnishing of the building. If there is any doubt as to whether including the term "furnishing" can be considered as a limitation beyond the first furnishing, that objection I should be willing to hear; and yet it is my opinion that three and one-half millions will be sufficient to construct this build ilng upon its present plan, finish and fur nish it, and afford all the means for fur nishing it that will be necessary during the life of this Constitution, if it should be adopted. I believe it is the opinion of the State house commissioners, or a portion of them, that if the financial condition of the countrv keeps improving, and the price of gold going down, they will be able to complete the building, pay for the grounds, and all, within the original three million dollars con templated by the first act of the General Assembly. If they should be able to do that, it will be seen that there will be still a margin of five hundred thou sand dollars left to cover any repairs or any accident or any fulrnishing. Of course it is a large margin. It seems that this margin is now fifty thousand dollars more than the amount contemplated by the Legislature, at the last session, when it was sought to limit the cost by fixing it at three millions of dollars over what had been before appropriated, which included the two hundred thousand dollars received for this State house, mnaking, according to the last act of the General Assembly, three millions, four hundred and fifty thousand dollars. This, then, is reported at three millions five~ hundred thousand dollars, in round numbers, which is thought to be ample and liberal for furnishing everything. There is no design to throw any embarrassment in the way of -then completion of the building, upon the stale contemplated. lThe PRESIDENT. The question is !on the amendment pronosed by the chairman of the committee,: to insert before "State house" the words "constrction, and completion, and furnishing of." t The General Assembly shall not appropriate out of the State treasury, or expend on account of the new capitol grounds, and construction and completion of the new State house. Mr. CHURCH. I accept those words. Mr. HAY. The object of this, as I understand it, Mr. President, is that if it should be desirable to put in a constitu tional limitation in regard to the completion of the building, that certainly is the extent to which it would be desirable to go. If, in process of time, after the building is completed, repairs should be necessary, those repairs should certainly not be prevented by a constitutional provision, and yet, under the general words here, that might be the construction. Now, I have only this to remark in regard to the policy of a constitutional provision upon the subject. I have no doubt the gentlemen of the committee have, in their conference with the State house commissioners and their examination of the law, satisfied themselves that they have not put an unnecessary or unreasonable restriction in the provision that they have reported; and - that there has been some uneasiness in the State, as 444 a t t s 0 8 i t t t I t t 8 i i i MAY 9) 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1773 CONSTITUTIONAL CONYENTION MONDAY, gentlemen have said to me that they fear it will cause a complication in the discription of prope ty that may affect titles under tax sales, by making it more difficult to describe the property, and in order to meet that objection I offer this change, if the Convention des;re unanimously to make it, and I do so at the earnest solicitation of the chairman of the Committee on Revenue. Mr. HAY. Mr. President: I think the amendment proposed by the gentleman from DuPage [Mr. Cody] ought to be satisfactory to all sides of the Convention, as it will avoid a great increase of cost and inconvenience that will necessarily attend the attempt to execute the provision, with the exception, as originally introduced by the gentleman from Du Page [Mr. Cody]. Now, the question suggested itself to my mind as to whether the assessors do not already make the necessary deductions. It may be that, upon the true vat l u ation they should do so, but the question is whether they do it. This simply provides that the Legislature may require them to take into consideration such easements. The PRESIDENT. By general consent the proposition will be adopted, and the journal will show a reconsideration of the vote by which the section was adopted, the insertion of this amend ment, and then the adoption of the sect ion, as amended; and the section will be referred to the Committee upon Revision and Adjustment. The Secretary will read section five. The Secretary read section five, as follows: SEc. 5. The General Assembly shall provside, in all cases where it may be necessary to sell real estate for the non-payment of taxes or special assessments, for State, county, municipal or other purposes,that a return of such unpaid taxes or assessments shall be made to some general officer of the county having authority to receive State and county taxes; and there shall be no sale of said property tor any of said taxes or assessments but by said officer, upon the order or judgment of some court of record; and such sale shall not be made oftener than once in each year, and only at such time as shall be fixed by general law. Mr. HAY. Mr. President: I am apprehensive that inconvenience will result from this section five, unless modified to some extent. I would suggest as an amendment, "no sale of the same property." If that amendment can be put in, it will probably obviate all objection. I call attention to the fact, whether, under such restrictions as this, if any taxpayer conies forward to make objection, on account of any special assessment, or if for any reason, judgment cannot be ob tained against his property, the effect will not be, if these objections are not disposed of, and judgment rendered against his property, at the same time as against the other list of taxable property, to postpone a judgment, as to the whole list, or to postpone the sale, at least, as to the whole list, until judgment is obtained against his particular property, or until the sale of his particular property. It will save all trouble of that sort, if this modification is made. Mr. HAINES, of Lake. Mr. President: I understand the object is that there shall be but one time of selling land. I moved, on a former occasion, to have the section so read that the sale shall take place on a given day, and that there shall be but The amendment offered by Mr. Church was agreed to. Te SEN he PRESIDENT. The que tion now is on the ad option of th e ar ticle. The article, as amended, was agreed to. REYENUE. The PRESIDENT. The article will be referred to the Committee on Revision and Adjustment. There are several sections of the revenue article lying on the table. Mr. HAINES, of Lake. I move they be taken up. The motion was agreed to. The PRESIDENTF. The third section has been adopted. The Secretary will read it. The Secretary read section three, as follows: SEc. 3. The specifications of the objects and subjects of taxation shall not deprive the General Assembly of the power to require other subjects or objects to be taxed, in such manner as may be consistent with the principles of taxation fixed in this Constitution. The PRESIDENT. It will be referred to the Committee on Revision and Adjustment. -The Secretary will read the fourth section, which is adopted. TIhe Secretary read section four, as fol lows: SEC. 4. The property of the State, counties, municipal corporations, both real and personal, and such other property as may be used exclusively for agricultural and horticultural societies, school, religious, cemetery and charitable purposes, may be exempted from taxation, but such exemptions shall be only by general law. Mr. TINCHER. I move to strike out "highways." The PRESIDENT. The article has been adopted by the Convention. It is not subject to amendment at the present stage, except by general consent. Mr. CODY. Mr. President: I think I can relieve the gentleman, and every other gentleman in his opposition to that proposition. I introduced the amendment myself, and it was adopted, but after conference with the chairman of the committee and at his earnest solicitation I desire, that, by unanimous consent, the amendment be stricken out, and that there be inserted in the proper place the following, which in this form, cannot be objectionable to ar:ybody. The Secretary read the amendment offered by Mr. Cody, as follows: In the assessment of real estate incumbered by public easements, any depreciation occasioned by such easement may be deducted in the valuation of such property. Mr. CODY. That will meet every objection that has been made to the language formerly used, and I am perfectly willing the obj ect shall be reached in this manner as that seems in accordance with the desire of several gentlemen. Mr. HAINES, of Lake. I would suggest whether if these incumbrances are not taken into account in the assessmint of damages, condemning the land for these easements. If so, it will be an im proper principle for us to ingraft in the Constitution. If they are not, I think the proposition of the gentleman is very well worded. I suggest that to his consideration. Mr. CODY. It is not an original prop. osition. The proposition to exempt lands used for common roads has already been adopted by the Conventwgn. But some CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION MONDAY) 1774 one sale in a year. This permits that construction, probably, as it now stands, and I think it is the right principle. If anybody is successful in contenting the taxes levied upon property, upon which a sale is awarded, then it is -very pr-)per that the sale of his land should be carried over to the next year. Or, if an ap. peal is taken Mr. HAY (in his seat). He gets out of paying. Mr. HKINES, of Lake. Mr. President: I do not understand that that construc. tion would be the correct one. The public ought to know when these sales are to be made, that they may be attended by those desiridg to purchase. The principle of forfeiture to the public has not been adopted, but that of 1)ublic Yendue; and the public have a right to know the time certain when these sa I us are to take- place. The sale ought to be on one given day, and if contested, the taxes of this should be added to those of next year. Or, if the case is appealed and is not successful, the delinquency is added to next year's assessment. I do think any other mode would be in-tproper. The delinquency, if a party be successful in contesting his tax for irregularity, should be carried over to the next year. The PRESIDENT. Will the gentle. man from Sangamon [Mr. Hay] reduce his suggestion to the form of a resolution? Mr. UNDERWOOD. Mr. President: Is it within the time to move a reconsideration? The PRESIDENT. It is not. The proper mode will be that of a resolution of instructions to the committee. Mr. UNDERWOOD. Mr. President: I am quite confident that this should be Itft to the General Assembly. This may embarrass the General Assembly as it is. As stated by the gentleman from Sangamon [,Nir. Hay], if this feature is left in the Constitution it will lead to a failure to collect the taxes by any informality or irregularity-thiDgS which are very common. Towns, cities and counties will be unable to collect the taxes necessary to the performance of their indispe,- sable duties, and it will embarrass the Legislature exceedingly in its future action. However desirable it may be to have tax sales on a particular day, the public t r t is much hi her than mere rivate MAY 9, 1870. DEBATES AXD PRO()iED1NGS. 175 pie of this section, or at least this section r admits of it. 1 Mr. HAINES, of Cook. The Conven . tion have not before them, except upon 1 the President's desk, the sections under r discussion or referred to in the report The addition of section five of the reven ue article was fully discussed at the time they were under discussion in Convent . tion. It'was adopted by the Convention as well as in Committee of the Whole. Now, I understand that this says, that t everything should be sold at one time of the year, and not on the same day of the : year. There is a difference between "day" and "time." One is definite, the other indefinite. As I understand this, it means that there shall be but one time in the year when these sales shall be made. It may run over a period of months, but they must begin at a certain time-not on a certain day and end on the same day. And that is right. The different municipalities growing up in this State themselves, are levying so many taxes that it is almost impossible to keep track of them. They are levying numerous special taxes and assessments Then we have the town taxes and the county taxes, the State taxes and the city taxes; and if we allow these different localities to lay special taxes and special assessments from time to time, and make the sales when they please, we will keep the citizen in hot water all the tie am, looking after tax sales. It is about all he can do now to look after assessments, to say nothing about sales. I hope the pro vision will not be stricken out. Mr. GOODELL. Mr. President: It seems to me that gentlemen are laying down a general rule for a fundamental law, for the government of the people of the whole State, which does not apply, and will not work. It will interfere with the collection of taxes. In the ru ral districts we do not have terms of the court, so that we can get judgment on a fixed day. It seems to me that it is a fatal principle to adopt. Mr. HAINES, of Cook. It does not say "day," it says "time." Mr. GOODELL. It says the time shall be fixed by general law. We only have three or four terms of court during the year. For that reason we cannot get a judgment, and -if the time is fixed by general law, it will interfere with the collection of taxes. Mr. CUMMINGS. I move the previous question. Mr. CODY. If the gentleman will withdraw that a single moment, I will renew it. Mr. CUMMINGS. I will withdraw it for a moment. Mr. CODY. I wish to say that it seems to be the general wish of all who have spoken upon this question that there should be but one tax sale in a year; but by the last provision of this amendment, the General Assembly will be required to fix the time of that sale, and with such a provision in the Constitution, the General Assembly must fix a certain day, when if for any reason the sale should not be made on that day, the whole tax sale would fail for the year. Its is to obviate that objection, that I suppose this striking out of the amendment is desirable. The result aimed at might perhaps be reached by striking out all after the word "year." It certainly cannot be desirable to have the Legislature fix an unchange Allen, of Alex.English Allen of Crfd. Fuller, Archer, Hankins, Atkins, Hanna, Bowman, Hart, Brown, Harwood, Bryan, Hayes, Buxton, King, Coolbaugh, McDowell, Cross, Merriam, Dement, Perley, Eldredge, Peirce, Ellis, Pill sbury, . Poage, Robinson, Bcholfield, Sedgwick, Skinner, Springer, Turner, Wagner, Wells, Wendling, Mr..President —37, So the motion of Mr. Underwood to strik e out the last clause of sec tion five w as agreed to. The Secretary read section eight, as follows: The General Assembly shall have no power to release or discharge any county,city, township, town or district whatever, or the inhabitants thereof, or the property therein, from their proportionate share of taxes to be levied for State purposes. nor shall commutation for such taxes be authorized in any form whatsoever. Section eight was referred to the Committee on Revision and Adjustment. The Secretary read section nine, as follows: SEC. 9. All taxes levied for btate purposes shall be paid into the State treasury. Section nine was referred to the Committee on Revision and Adjustment. The Secretary read the added section, as follows: The General Assembly shall require that all taxable property within the limits of municipal corporations shall be taxed for the payment of all debts contracted under authority of law, such taxes to be uniform in respect to persons and property, within the jurisdiction of the body imposing the same. Mr. CODY. Mr. President: I believe the same section precisely was adopted in the report of the Committee upon Municipal Corporations. The PRESIDENT. It will be referred to the Committee on Revision an; Ad I t 8 t MAY 9, 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1-775 authorizidg the assessment of that tax o the property for the next year, togcthe with-the accruing tax or assessment, an the collection of it for the next year, to gether with six per cent. interest. A ma going about his business could neve know when he would be sold out. I thin this is a good provision. The fact is now if a sale takes place, party has two years in which to redeem I think it would be a good thing to hav all delinquent taxes returnable at on place, and to have the sales take place a one time. Mr. UNDERWOOD. Mr. President: Wit) the gentlemau indulge me a mo ment? The wiiole object of there being a particular day is, I take it, that the owners may know the time when the sale wilitakeplace. Now,ifapartycontests a sale before the courts, and is kept in court f(r a long time, he will know when it is to be sold on a subsequent day. He will watch the proceedings, and he will not be pr(-judiced in ary way by the sale being on a subsequent day. Mr. ANTHONY. It does seem to me that a great deal of confusion aud trouble will arise from the tax sales not being all at one time in the year. I hope that the provision will not bestricken out. Mr. HAINES, of Lake. Mr. President: On this motion of instruction, I desire to say, that I wish the Convention would lay down the rule that when anything has been adopted after mature consideration, it rhal I stand as the j udgm ent of this body in good faith, unless some error be diE;covered. Many members have gone away who voted upon this propositiOD, and a chan.-e would be uDj ust to them, because this is a matter of great importauce to the different localities of the State. In the first place, we shall never get chrough with our work if we adopt a course of constant clanging. Secondly, we shall do harm, because this will be a' hasty consideration of this subject. It has been well matured, based upon the law as it is now, and as it has been f)r the last twenty years. Now, why change it, and if it must be chainged, wh,,- chanlre it so hastily, and why adopt this rure of constant reconsideration of propositions that we have so well at)d maturely settled? I hope the gentlemen will see it in that li bt and let us leave this ro osi able day in each year for the tax sale, and I trust the at-neridment,, or the latter por. tion of it, will be stricken out. I now renew the motion for the previous u uestion. The motion for the previous question was agreed to, and fhe main question ordered. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the motion of the gentleman from St. Clair [lvlr. -Underwood] that the Committee upon Rivision and Adjustment be instructed to strike out: And such sale shall not be made oftener than once in each year, and only at such time as shall be fixed by general law sale. The yeas and nays were ordered, and being taked, resultecl-yeas, 26, nays 20 -as follows: TEAS. Abbott, Benjaipin, Browning, Cary, Church, Cody' Forman, Fox, Goodell, Hay, McCoy, . Moorj,' Neece, Parker, Parks, Rice, Sharp, Sutherland, Tincher, Truesdale, Underwood, Vandeventer, Wait Wall, Wilson. WrightL-26. WAYS. Anderson, Anthony, Bayne, Bromwell, Cameron, Craig, Cummingi;, Gamble, Sherrill, Goodhue, Sn'yder, Raines ofCook,Tubbs,Haines of Lake Waih burn, Hildrup, Wheaton, Medill'- Whiting-20. Ross, A.BSBWT OR NOT VOTING. I 7 OS1 TOALC-ETO ODY justment, and if they find a similar section pre existing, they can take such action as they may deem advisable. Mr. PE[RCE. Mr. President: Will it be in order to take up what was originally section ten of this report? If I remember rightly, it was laid upon the table. . The PRESIDENT. Th e sec tion d oe s not lie upo n t he tabl e of the Convention. It was not laid upon the table, but the Convention declined to adopt it. Mr. HAINES, of Cook. Mr. President: I would-like to hear the section read, for information. The Secretary read the section which was originally section ten, as follows: SEC. 10. All appropriations of the Slate revenue shall be from the revenue fund, in general, contained in the State treasury; and no appropriation of the tax collected, or to be collected from any particular locality or district, or any designated property or source of revenue, shall ever be made. Mr. HAINES, of Cook. I move that as an additional section. Mr. WASHBURN. I believe this is about the fifteenth time the question contained in that section has been debated and rej-cted. The PRESIDENT. The Chair will rule the proposition out of order. It has been acted upon several times by the Convention. The Convention has disposed of all pending propositions lying on the desk of the Secretary. ADJOURNMENT. Mr. CUMMINGS. I move the Convention do now ad,ourn. The motion was agreed to. So the Convention (at eleven o'clock and forty-seven minutes) adjourned. The report was laid on the table. REVISION AND ADJUSTMENT. Mr. CODY. Mr. President: The Committee on Revision and Adjustment, to whom was referred the articles of the present Constitution, relating to the preamble, boundaries, bill of rights, distribution of powers, and the legislative and executive articles as amended and concurred in by the Convention, having had the same under consideration, have revised and adjusted the various sections thereof, and have directed me to report the same back in the words following, and ask that the same be enrolled as a preamble, and articles one, two, three, four and five of the amended Constitution of I llinois. They read as follows: Provided, that this State shall exercise such jurisdiction upon the Ohio river as she is now entitled to,or such as may hereafter be agreed upon by this State and the State of Kentucky. Mr. WENDLING. Mr. President: As there is but one section in the article, I see no use for the words "section one," and I move, therefore to strike out the words "section one." The motion was agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is shall article one, relating to boundaries, be enrolled? It will be ordered enrolled. The question is u!on article two, relating to the bill of rfghts. It will be read. MIr. CODY PREAMBLE. We, the people of the State of Illinois, grateful to Almighty God for the civil, political and religious liberty which he has so long permitted us to enjoy, and looking to H img for a blessing upon our endeavors to secure and transmit the same unimpaired to succeedi ng generations-in order to form a more perfect government, establish justice, insure domestic tranquillity, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the State of Illinois. Mr. HAINES, of Lake. I would move that the report lie on the table without reading. Mr. CODY. The object of reading the report is to have it passed upon, and ordered enrolled at once, so that the person employed to enroll on parchment may be at work, that the final adjournment of the Convention may not be delayed. Mr. HAINES, of Lake. As far as I am concerned, the reading would not aid me. Members should be furnished with a copy. The PRESIDENT. If the Convention desires to take up the report on this question of enrollment, the Chair will order copies of the report to be distributed. Mr. CODY. Mr. President: I make that motion. The PRESIDENT. The queston is upon the motion of the gentleman from DuPage [Mr. Codyv], that the Convention take up the report of the Committee on Revision and Adjustment, and consider the subject of enrolling the articles so far as completed. The motion of Mr. Cody, to take up the report of the Committee on Revision and Adjustment, was agreed to. The PRESIDENT. Shall the preamble be enrolled as part of the Constitution? It will be ordered enrolled. The PRES.IDENT. The question is upon article one, relating to boundaries. The chairman of the committee will re ad. Mr. CODY. I will continue: ARTICLE II. BILL OF RIGETS. SECTION 1. All men are by nature free and independent, and have certain inherent and inalienable rights-among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. To secure these rights and the protection of property, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. SEC. 2. No person shall be deprived of life, liberty or property witho ut du e process of law. SEc. 3. The free exercise and enjoyment of religious profession and worship, without discrimination, shall forever be guaranteed; and no person shall be denied any civil or political right, privilege or capacity, on account of his religious opinions; but the liberty of conscience hereby secured shall not be construed to dispense with oaths or affirmations, excuse acts of licentiousness, or justify practices inconsistent with the peace or safety of the State. No person shall be required to at. tend or support any ministry or place of worship against his consent, nor shall any preference be given by law to any religious denomination or mode of worship. But persons who conscientiously observe the seventh day of the week as the Sabbath, may be exempted by law from answering civil process on that day. Mr. CHURCH. Mr. President: This last clause in section three, of the bill of rights, I can hardly see the necessity of. I think there is nothing in the Constitution anywhere, which has anv reference what ever to the Sabbath. There is nothing in the Constitution that secures to anybody else, any particular privilege with refer ence to any day of the week, except in the first clause of this section in the bill of rights, which is designed to protect the conscience of every man and every person. It seems to me that it is clearly within the power, not only of the Legislature to provide for any class of persons who may have scruples in regard to any particular day of the week, but also that it would be the duty of every judge, of every per son exercising any power in any depart ment of the government, to relieve any person from anv duty which would be im posed by law, on his Sabbath. There is nothing in the Constitution which protects us from being sued on the first day of the week. Shall it be said, then, that we have inserted in the Con. stitution a provision of a legislative char acter, specially relating to one class, when the same is not in the Constitution with reference to other classes, or to the gener alitv of the people? I'fully recognize the right of all who conscientiously desire to observe the sevenlth insstea~d of the firs~ day of the week, but I believe that the law will protect them in that regard, and that the gentleman Sfrom Peoria [Mr. Wells], who moved it, will, on reflection, consent to have that provision dropped from the section. FINANCE. Mr. ROSS. The Committee on Finance, to whom was refe rred the second s ection of the report of the Committee on Revenue, have directed me to r eport the same back, and ask that it lie on the table for consideration. The Secretary read section two, as follows: The General Assembly shall provide such further revenue as may be needful by levying a tax, by valuation, so that every person and corporation shall pay a tax in proportion tc the valae of his or her property, - such value to be ascertained by some person or persons to be elected or appointed in such manner as the General Assembly shall direct, and not otherwise; but the General Assembly shall have power to tax peddlers, auctioneers, brokers, hawkers, merchants, commission merchants, showmen, jugglers, inn-keepers, grocery-keepers, liquor-dealers, toll-bridg,es, ferries, insurance, telegraph and express interests or business, venders of patents, and persons or corporations owning, using or exercising franchises and privileges, in such manner as it shall, from time to time, direct by general law. uniform as to the class upon which it operates.: Air. HAINES of Lake. I would move as an amendment, to strike out after "elected" the word "appointed>" where it first occurs in the first section. The PRESIDENT. The article is not before the Convention at the present time. The amendment will be in.order as soon as the report is before the Convention. ARTICLE L. BOUNDARIES. The boundaries and jurisdiction of the State shall be as follows, to-wit: Beginning at the mouth of the Wabash river thence up the same, and with the line of Indiana, to the northwest corner of said State; thence east, with t e line of the same State, to the middle of Lake Michigan; thence north, along the middle of said lake, to north latitude fortytwo degrees and thirty minutes; thence west to the middle of the Mississippi river, and thence down along the middle of that river to its confluence with the Ohio river, and thence up the latter river, along its northwestern shore, to the place of beginning: t CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION AIONDAY) 1776 AFTERNOO-N SESSION. MO' gD.AY, May 9,1870. TheConventionmetat two o'ciockp. m., and was called to order by the Presiderit. MAY 9, 1870. DEBATES AD PROCEEDINGS. 177w ;: as the Sabbath, while the Legislature ha d turned a deaf ear to the petitions and th ar prayers of the class of citizens who desir r, to observe and do conscientiously ob k serve and believe in the seventh day a - the Sabbath. - Gentlemen must vote upon this ques tion in view of the right and justice and f equity of the case. Gentlemen canno e vote against this because it is special leg s islation. A large majority of the mem r g bers upon this floor have voted for clause e of special legislation, and they canno u conscientiously go back on their record n It is true, sir, that the Legislature car a protect these people. But they are ver f few. As a class they are very weak ant have very few voters in this State. N A n other voice than mine has been heard in i their behalf upon this floor. I presented a this proposition as an act ofjustice and fairness to a small though most worth: - class of our citizens. They are too few - to have a representative upon this floor You can crush them to the earth if you s choose, but I trust such an act of injus t tice will not receive the sanction of this s body. Let me remind you that a majority of M ten or twelve votes were given in favoe of extending to this feeble class the pro tection of a constitutional provisi on Now, if gentlemen propose to withdraw this protection from this class because they are weak, because they are few, be cause they are not represented by a large and numerous body of delegates, they can do so, but I must enter my protest. I admit, as I said before, that the Leg[ islature can reach this matter. But for fifty years, and against their petitions, the the Legislature has unjustly discrim] inated against them. Why withdraw from them the shelter that has been ex tended by a large majority of the votes of this Convention? Mr. WALL. Mr. President: In my judgment, the petitions that have been presented to this Convention by the class of citizens spoken of by the gentleman from Peoria [Mr. Wells], have been based upon a misconception of their rights un der the law. I know of nothing in the Constitution, as it has stovd heretofore, to prevent precisely such protection as the gentleman seeks for them now, and the protection he seeks must be enforced by legislative authority. The clause amounts practically to nothing. As a matter of course, the General Assembly may exempt them, unless we prevent it. And we simply here declare that they may do a thing that they, as a matter of course, have the power to do, without our declaration. Why, then, insert in the organic law a declaration that can accomplish nothing? It seems to be a discrimination in favor of a small class who observe the seventh day as the Sabbath, and against a large class who observe the first day as the Sabbath. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the motion of the gentleman from Mejenry [Mr. Church] to strike out from the third section the last clause. The yea and nays were ordered, and being taken, resulted —yeas 35, nays 21- c as follows: Medill, Merriam, Parker, Parks, Peirce, Ross, Sedgwick, ABSENT, OR NOT VOTING. Y Allen of Alex.,Dement, Moore, Allen of Cr'fd.,Eldredge, Pillsbury, Archer, English, Poage, ~ Atkins, Hanna Robinson, Bowman, Hart, Scholfield, Brown, Harwood, Skinner, i Bryan, Hayes, Tubbs, Buxton, King, Turner, Y Coolbaagh, McDowell, Mr. President-27. . So the motion of Mr. Church, to strike u out the last clause of section three was . agreed to. s The PRESIDENT. The section will be enrolled. f Mr. CODY. Section four is as follows: rI SEC. 4. Every person may freely speak, . write and publish on all subjects, being re sponsible for the abuse of that liberty: and in all trials for libel, both civil and criminal, v the truth, when published with good motives and for justifiable ends, shall be a sufficient - defense. Mr. BROMWELL. Mr. President: It seems to me that the language used here does not express our meaning. It says, - "In all trials for libel, both civil and ,criminal, the truth, when published with , good motives and for justifiable ends, - shall be a sufficient defense." Heretofore r the law has been that in a civil cause the truth has been sufficient justification, however published. Mr. HAINES, of Cook. You would have to do two things. You would have to show that you had published the truth, and that you had published it for good motives and justifiable ends. How would you make that proof? The PRESIDENT. The question is one of substance, and can be reached only by a suspension of the rules. Mr. WELLS. The rules have been suspended by action of the Convention. May I say upon this point of order, that the Convention have not suspended the rules for the purpose of discrimination against any class of people, but only for the benefit of the people of the whole State. The PRESIDENT. The point of order is not sustained, the rules having been suspended for a specific purpose. Section four will be enrolled. Mr. CODY. Section five reads: SEc. 5. The right of trial by jury as heretofore enjoyed, shall remain inviolate; but the trial of civil cases before justices of the peace, by a jury of less than twelve men, may be authorized by law. The PRESIDEI~T. Section five will be enrolled. l~r. CODY. Section six reads. SEC. 6. The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures shall not be violated- and no warrant shall issue without probable cause, supported by affidavit, particularly describing the place to be searched, and1 the persons or things to be seized. The PRESIDENT. The section Y~ill be enrolled. Mr. HAINES, of Lake M. Mr. President F or t he purpos e of system atizing an saving time, I w is h to inquire whethe discussion of the me rits is now in order or whether the correc tness of the worl of the Committee on Revision and Ad justment, is the matter before the Con vention? The PRESIDENT. No question o sub stance can be entertain ed, pending thr consideration of the report. Questions of form only, or in other words, relatind to phraseology and arrangement, are th~ only ones the Convention can deal with ir considering the report. No proposition to amend any matters of substance car be entertained, except upon suspension oe the rules. Mr. TINCHER. Would a resolution instructing the Committee on Revision and Adjustment to strike out a certain portion, be in order? The PRESIDENT. It would be com petent to recommit the report with in structions to strike out. It will also be competent for the Convention, if it chooses to consider the substance, to suspend the rules, and then consider the amendments that relate to the substance. Mr. CHURCH. Mr. President: Imove that we now suspend the rules in order to move a reconsideration of the vote by which the Convention adopted the last clause in section three. Mr. WELLS. Is that motion debata able,? The PRESIDENT. The merits of the question are not before the Convention on a motion to suspend the rule. If the rule is suspended, the proposition will then be debatable. The question is on the motion of the gentleman from McHenry [MIr. Church] to suspend the rule. A division was ordered. The Convention divided, when, there being thirty in the affirmative and four teen in the negative, the motion was agreed to. - Mr. CHURCH. Mr. President: If it is in order, I now move to strike out the last clause in section three, and I do so with due deference to the opinions of the class that seek this protection. There is a discrimination here in protecting their Sabbath as no other Sabbath is protected in the Constitution. The law will protect the Lordl's day, or the first day of the week, and will protect the seventh day of the week at the same time, un questionably, to such as observe it. ni certainly believe that it would be a great inconsistency for this to appear in the Constitution. Mr. WELLS. Mr. President: I concede that this is a piece of special legislation, but I believe it is the most innocent and harmless, and withal, has the strongest reasons- to plead in its favor of any piece of special legislation that has been introduced in this Convention. Other clauses, containing the most notorious and admitted special legislation, have been engrafted upon this Constitul tion, and have received the votes of a majority of the members upon this floor. Why this discrimination against this piece of special legislation? A very large number of citizens have petitioned us specially for this. They have alleged as a reason for these petitions, that the laws of the State have, for more than fiftyy years- ever since the organization of the State, recognized the fist day of the wee"k 445 8 MAY 9, 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1777 Cary, Ch.r"h, Cody, Cross, Fulle'r, Gamble, Goodell, Wait, Wall,Washburn, Wheaton, Whiting, Wilson-35. NAYS. Fox, Goodhue, McCoy, Neece, Perley, Rice, Sherrill, Bayne, Bromwell, Browning, Craig, Cummings, Ellis, Forman, Snyder, Truesda'le, Vandeventer, Wagner, Wells, Wendling, Wright-21. TBA60. Abbott, Anderson, Anthony, Benjamin, Cameron, Iffaines of CookShar,p, Haines of LakeSpringer, 'lay, Sutherland, 'Iifdrup. Tincher, lankifli, Underwood, 1778 CONSTITUTIONAL CO~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~YE~~~~~~~~~~~TION MONDAY,~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Mr. BAYNE. I offer an additional section. The PRESIDENT. An additional section going to the substance of the article, of course, cannot be entertained without a suspension of the rules. Mr. BAYNE. I move a suspension of the rules. ["Read," "read."] The Secretary read the additional section offered by Mr. Bayne, as follows: ARTICLE —. SEC. -. The General Assembly shall-make such laws as will secure the observance of the Christian Sabbath, and the right of every individual in the State to the benefit, physical and religious, to be derived from the same. Mr. WELLS. On the question of suspending the rule, I believe it will be eminently proper The PRESIDENT. The question is not debatable. If the Convention shall choose to suspend the rules, the proposition will become debatable. The motion of Mr. Bayne to suspend the rules was not agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon enrolling article three. Mr. CODY. Article three reads as follows: under the United States or this State, or any foreign government, shall have a seat in the GeneralAssembly: Provided, that appointments in the militia and the offices of notary public and justice of the peace shall not be considered lucrative. Nor shall any person hol ding any office of honor or profit under any foreign government, or und er the gov ernment of the United States (except postmasters whose annual compensation does not exceed the sum of three hundred dollars) hold any office of honor or profit under the authority of this State. SEC. 4. No person who has been, or hereafter shall be convicted of bribery, perjury or other infamous crime, nor any person who has been or may be a collector or holder of public moneys, who shall not have accounted for and paid over, according to law, all such moneys due from him, shalr be eligible to the General Assembly, or to any office of profit or trust in this State. SEc. 5. Members of the General Assembly, before they enter upon their official duties, shall take and subscribe the following oath or affirmation: "I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support the Constitution of the United States and the Constitution of the State of Illinois, and will faithfully discharge the duties of senator (or representative) according to the best of my ability; and that I have not, knowingly or intentionally, paid or contributed anything, or made any promise in the nature of a bribe, to directly or indirectly influence any vote at the election at which I was chosen to fill the said office, and have not accepted nor will I accept or receive, directly or indirectly, any money or other valuable thing, from any corpo ration, company or person, for any vote or influence I may give or withhold on any bill, resolution or appropriation, or for any other official act." This oath shall be administer ed by a judge of the supreme or circuit court, in the hall of the house to which the member is elected, and the Secretary of State shall record and file the oath subscribed by each member. Any member who shall refuse to take the oath herein prescribed, shall forfeit his office, and every member who shall be convicted of having sworn falsely to, or of violating, his said oath, shall forfeit his office and be disqualified thereafter from holding any office of profit or trust in this State. Mr. CODY. SEC. 7. All persons shall be bailable by sufficient sureties, except for capital offenses, where the proof is evident or the presumnption great; and the privilege of the writ of habeas corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in cases of rebellion or invasion the public safety may require it. SEC. 8. No person shall be held to answer for a criminal offense, unless on indictment of a grand jury, except in cases in which the punishment is by fine, or imprisonment otherwise than in the penitentiary, in cases of impeachment, and i n ca ses a rising in the army and navy, or in the militia when in actual service in time of war or public danger: Provided, that the grand jury may be abolished by law in all cases. Mr. PEIRCE. Mr. President: I wish to suggest to the chairman of the committee the striking out of the words "in all cases." Is there any need of those last three words? Mr. CODY. Mr. President: That matter was discussed in the committee and the committee thought there was need of them. Mr. BROWNING. There is no need of them. The PRESIDENT. The section will be enrolled. Mr. CODY. The article continues: SEC. 9. In all criminal prosecutions the accused shall have the right to appear and defend in person and by counsel; to demand the nature and cause of the accusation, and to have a copy thereof; to meet the witnesses face to face, and to have process to compel attendance of witnesses in his behalf, and a speedy public trial by an impartial jury of the county or district in which the offense is alleged to have been committed. SEC. 10. No person shall be compelled in any criminal case to give evidence against himself orbe twice put in jeopardy for the same offense. SEC. 11. All penalties shall be proportioned to the nature of the offense, and no conviction shall work corruption of blood or forfeiture of estate; nor shall any person be transported out of the State for any offense committed within the same. SEC. 12. No person shall be imprisoned for debt, unless upon refusal to deliver up his estate for the benefit of his creditors, in such manner as shall be prescribed by law, or in cases where there is strong presumption of fraud. SEC. 13. Private property shall not be taken or damaged for public use without just compensation. Such compensation, when not made by the State, shall be ascertained by a jury, as shall be prescribed by law. The fee of land taken for railroad tracks, without con sent of the owners thereof, shall remain in such owners, subject to the use for which it is taken. SEC. 14. No ex post facto law, or law impairing the obligation of contracts, or making any irrevocable grant of special privileges or imnmunities, shall be passed. SEC. lb. The military shall be in strict subordination to the civil power. SEa. 16. No soldier shall, in time of peace, be quartered in any house without thes con sent of the owner;* nor in time of war except in the manner prescribed by law. SEJc. 17. The people' have the right to assemble in a peaceable manner to consult for the common good, to make known their opinions to their representatives and to apply for redress of grievances. SEC. 18. All elections shall be free and equal. S;Ee. 19. Every person ought to find a cer tain remedy in the lass for all injuries and wrongs which he may receive in his person, property or reputation; he ought to obtain, by law, right and justice freely, and without being obliged to purchase it, completely and without denial, promptly and without delay.o SEC. 20. A frequent recurrence to the fun damental principles of civil government is absolutely necessary to preserve the blessings of liberty. The PRESIDENT. The,2rticle will be enrolled.' ARTICLE III. DISTRIBUTION OF POWERS. The powers of the government of this State are divided into three distinct departmentsthe legislative, executive and judicial; and no person, or collection of persons, being one of these departments, shall exercise any power properly belonging to either of the others, except as h ereinafter expressly directed or permitted. The PRESIDENT. The article will be enrolled. The question is upon enrolling article four. Mr. CODY ARTICLE IV. LEGISLATIVE DEPARTMENT. SECTION 1. The legislative power shall be vested in a General Assembly, which shall consist of a senate and house of representatives, both to be elected by the people. Mr. IIAINES, of Lake. Mr. President: If the Convention, as a matter of taste, desires to have this express what was intended, the word "people" should be stricken out, and the word "electors" inserted. I would like to see it changed from "people" to "electors." The PRESIDENT. The change can not be made without a suspension of the rule. Mr. CODYthe obigatin shal be illedby theelecton ofsenatrs fo AsPPORTIONMENT-SENATORIAL. SEC. 6. The General Assembly shall apportion the State every ten years, beginning with the year one thousand eight hundred and seventy-one, by dividing the population of the State, as ascertained by the federal census, by the number fifty-one, and the quotient shall be the ratio of representation in the senate. The State shall be divided into fifty-one senatorial.districts, each of which shall elect one senator, whose term of office shall be four years. The senators elected in 1872, in districts bearing odd numbers, shall vacate their offices at the end of two years, formed of contiguous and compact territory, and those elected in districts bearing even numbers, at the end of four years; and the vacancies occurring by the expiration of term shall be filled by the election of senators for the full term. Senatorial districts shall be formed of contiguous and compact territory, bounded by county lines, and contain as nearly as practicable an equal number of inhabitants; but no district shall contain less than fourfifths of the senatorial ratio. Counties ontaining not less than the ratio and threefourths, may be divided into separate districts, and shall be entitled to two senators, and to one additional senator for each number of inhabitants, equal to the ratio, contained by such counties in excess of twice the number of said ratio. REPRESENTATrVI, SEC. 7. The population of the State, as as. certained by the federal census, shall be divided by the number one hundred and fifty. three, and the quotient shall be the ratio of representation in the house of representatives. Every county or district shall be entitled to one representative, when its population is three-fifths of the ratio; if any county has less than three-fifths of the ratio, it shall be attached to the adjoining county having the least population, to which no other county has for the same reason been attached, and the two shall constitute a separate district. Every county or district having ELECTION. SEC. 2. An election for members of the General Assembly shall be held on the Tuesday next after the first Monday in November, in the year of our Lord one thousand eight hundred and seventy, and every two years thereafter, in each county at such place therein as may be provided by law. When vacancies occur in either house, the Governor or person exercising the powers of Governor, shall issue writs of election to fill such vacancies. S~e.15. ll lectons hal be ree nd LIGInBILITY AND OATHE. nubroIadrto E]LIGIBILITY AND OAT]]. SxEC. 3. No person shall be a senator who shall not have attained the age of twenty-five years, or a representative who shall not have attained the age of twenty-one years. No person shall be a senator or representative who shall not be a citizen ofthe United States and who shall not have been for five years a resident of this State, and for two years next preceeding his election a resident within the territory forming the district from which h e is elected. No judge or clerk of any court, Secretary of State, Attorney General, State's attorney, recorder, sheriff, or collector of public revenue, member of either house of congress, or person holding any lucrative office i f t t e CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION MONDAY) 1778 MAY 9, 1870. DEBATES AD RO()EED1GS. 1hi79 provision in the Constitution of 1848. Otherwise, the section is the same as in the Constitution of 1848. Mr. HAINES, of Lake. The question is, how long shall this be? The PRESIDENT. That is a question of substance, and can be reached only by a suspension of the rule. dMr. HAINES, of Lake. I will not move to suspend the rule, as I want to get along with the business, but this now means perpetual imprisonment. Mr. CODY. I will proceed:' SEe. 10. The doors of each house and of committees of the whole shall be kept open, except in such cases as, in the opinion of the house require secrecy. Neither house shall, without the consent of the other, adjourn for more than two days, or to any other place than that in which the two houses shall be s itting. Each house shall keep a journal of its proceedings, which shall be published. In the senate, at the request of two members, and in the house at the request of five members, the yeas and nays shall be taken on any question, and entered upon the journal. Any two members of either house shall have liberty to dissent from and protest, in respectful language, against any act or resolution which they ttihk icjureious to the publi c o r to any individual, and l t have the reasons of the ir disse nt ent er e d upon the journals. Mr. PERLEY. Mr. President: I wish to call the attention of the chairman to the last two l in es of that, or to the last sentence. Should not the word " to" b e inserted before the word "have," in l the next to the last line? It mlust mean, " Shall have liberty to have the reasons." Mr. CODY. That is what the committee thought it mreant. Mr. PERLEY. I think the word "t o" s h ould be there. Mr. UNDERWOOD. The word "may" is understood. The PRESIDENT, Th is is a formal question, upon which it is competent to act directly. SECr. CODY. I think the word "may" would perha-ps be better. Mr. PCERDEY. Mr. President: I move that the word "ma y" be inserted before "have.". The m jot ion was not agreed to. Mr. CODY. S ec t ion eleven is as follows: STYLE OF LAWS AND PASSAGE OF BILLS. SEC. 11. The style of the laws of this State shall be, "Be it enacted by the People of the ,State oaf clhhinos represent e d in the GSeneral As. to order atthe openingof eachne assmbl wit lls the cocuregnate of aeaoityher thoue ue nrvne,cnrcet,nvrtx and resie oer i unil atemprarpre but maymber eleterd,t eachde horuseje. e cediby ggeaetohnde n it mg ffier herof hal hae ben hosn, ndheC 13.er Ever bil sheiallb readsage larg thuaddollladoestusbroe sball ave taen hi seat.No memer sh lls, thre difeete dhays, in byeach house land, shleaplepoteoupsnorwihte be epeled b eiherhous, eceptby voeach? bill seandatly, amndmentsl thenereto shl eweeotiedpotnaytedb tura of two-thirds of all ~the mebrseeceutrinted beor tha oeistknonisfndte,adt no othel purpose andom no othe that huse,ndnomembershallbewtwce oux pasae; condevryec bill havn passedt bofthdebt xetfrteproeo eeln n punis by mprisnmen anyperso, no a Eo. No acEreateyril pashlered sall embargemgteSaeiwa(orpyetowhc to te hose b disrderyorcontmpt ous thred dinferen tdtl.sB, if eany houbjec shl becnrce,unestelwauhrzndh behaior n it preenc. Bu nouchm-he ebillacnd all amndments which t shallno be a-sm hl,a eea lcin aebe prisnmet sall xted byondtwety-ourpressed infohe tivtle, isuc atsaken be void sumtedtinapoleln hv ecie hour atonetime unessthe ersn sall per ssagl - and tosomchtereofll lasin shallsno be oth jrtftevtscatfrmmesoh sistin sch isorerl or ontmptuus e- epreses,;shallnbe aignedaby t e spevivers ohr GnrlAsmltsuheeto.TeGn havior. ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ sf amNde act hreafterenet itssed eony uteaAsml shall prviebrahepblca Mr. HAINS, of Lke. Mr. rasi-ote thaw onevvdo thbetsectind tamede shall tio ofsiex-ortremnh,tlate dent s it ntenddthathisimprion-resisertd anth tilengBth infh anew aujct. sandfrll oe ftepol halb ae p no ebactfted general actswhich s hall n take ontesm;ex-rvsinsalbemd,a ment ay beexteded wthou~~' lmit reffet unil the first, dayhoacJulhall xt afevhoid,frth amnto h ntrs n Jnlss i isfurter lmitd, s as ot on it asstogso munletherifcase shal eegncyt nuaey asisol ccu,b axlve o exted byon th sesio, i wil b un (wihessergenyo a shall be exrevived inteteproe,oormohrsore frvne limited. pr~~~~~teamlaw orevivdy of theseto actmtendednshall wihlw rvdn o h amn fsc Mr. ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~n CODY The last general f Assembly shallbavoeotohrdofal ineetaksceax hl b reeaal n atrthe members elected to each house otherwise tlsc etb ad n rv~,,fr~r ~'onetime"have een dded o thesamedirect. -httelwlvigtetxsalb umt a population not less than the ratio and three fifths, shall be entitled to two representatives, and fo r each additional number of inhabitants equal to the ratio, o ne representati ve Counti es having overatio is twofhsnof thousand inhabi tants, may be divided into districts, each entitled to n o t l ess than three nor more than five re pres e nt a tives. After the year one thousand eight hundred and eighty, the whole population shall be divided by the number one hundred and eifty-nine, antd the quotient shall be the ratio o f representation in the house of cprese ntativeshfor the ensuing ten years; and six additional representatives shall be added for everv five hundred thousand increase of population at each decennial census thereaft er, and be apportioned in the same manner as ab ove provided. SAEC. S. When a county or district shall have a fraction of population above. what shall entitle it to one representative or more, according to the provisions of the foregoing sections, amounting to one-fifth of the,ratio, it shall be entitled to one additional representative in the fifth term of each decennial period * when such fraction is two-fiftbes of the ratio, it shall be entitled to an additional representative in the fourth and fifth terms of said periods * when the fraction is three:fifths of the rtitio, it shall be eniltled to an additional representative in the first, second and third terms, respectively * when the fraction is four-fifths of the ratio, it shall be entitled to an additional representative in the first, second, third and fourth terms, respectively. This has been changed since it was printed, by the committee, upon the suggestion of several gentlemen who hiave spent considerable time in figuring this thing out to know where these "floaters," as they are called, would come in. This arraingement will equalize them, so that the first three terms in the decennial period will have an equal numtber of representatives to the last, and leave anl increase. ["Read it again."] I will read i t again. When the fraction is three-fifths of the ratio, it shall be entitled to an additional re pre - sentative in the first, second and third terms, respectively; when the fraction is four-fifths of the ratio it shall be entitled to an additional1 representative in the first, second, third and fourth terms, respectively. I will proceed with the niext section: TIME OF MEETI.NG A.ND GENERA.L RULES. SEmC. 9. The sessions of the General Assem bly shall commence at twelve o'clock noon, on the Wednesday next after the first Monday in January, in the year next ensuing the election of members thereof, and at no other time, unless as provided by this- Constitution. A majority of the members elected to each house shall constitute a quorum. Each house shall determine the rules of its proceedings PRI VILEGES AND DISABILITIES. SE~C. 14. Senators and representatives shall in all cases, except treason, felony or breach of the peace, be privileged from arrest dur ing the session of the General Assembly, and inY going to and returning fr om the semen and for any speech or debate in either house, they shall not be questioned in any other place. SEC. 15. NO person elected to the General Assembly shall receive any civil appointment within this State from the Governor, the Governor and senate, or from the General Assembly, during the term for whicih he shall have been elected,; and all such appointments, and all votes given for any suhel members for any such office or appointmnent, shall be void; nor shall any member of the G —neral Assembly be interested, either directly or indirectly, in any contract with the State, or any county thereof, authorized by any law passed during the term for which he shall have been elected, or within one year after the expiration thereof. PUBLIC MONEYS AND APPROPRIATIONS. SEC. 16. The General Assembly shall make no appropriation of money out of the treasury in any private law. Bills making appropria tions for the pay of the members and officers of the General Assembly, and for the salaries of the officers of the government,,shall contain no provision o n any other subject. SEC. 17. No money shall be drawn from the treasury except inl pursuance of an appropriation made by law, and on the presentation of a warrant issued by the Auditor thereon, and no money shall be diverted from any appropriation made for any purpose or taken from any fund whatever, either byr joint or separate resolution. The Auditor shall, within sixty days after the adjournment of each sessio;n of the Genleral Assembly, prepare and publish a full statement of all .money expended at such session, spdecifying the amount of each item, and. to whom and for what pa-id.; SEC. 18. Each General Assembly shall pro yide for all-the appropriations necessary for the ordinary and contingent expenses of the governmnent until the expiration of the first fiscal quarter after the adjournment of the next regular session, the aggregate amount of which shall not be increased without a vote of two-thirds of the members elected to each house, nor exceed the amount of revenue authorized by law to be raised in such time;* and all appropriations, general or special, requiring money to be paid out of the State treasury, from funds belonging to the State, shall end with such fiscal quarter: Provided, the State may, to meet casual deficits or faill ures in revenues, contract debts, never to exSceed in the aggregate two hundred and fifty thousand dollars,; and moneys thus borrowed shall be applied to the, purpose for which they were obtained, or to pay the debt thuls created, and to no other purpose * and no other debt, except. for the purpose of repelling in. vateion, suppressing insurrection, or defending the Slate in war (for payment of which the faith of the State shall be pledged), shall be contracted, unless the law authorizing the same shall, at a general election, have been submitted to the people,' and have received a majority of the votes cast for members of the General Assembly at such election. The General Assembly shall provide for the public-ation of said Ilaw for three months, at least, before the vote of the people shall be taken up. on the same; and provision shall be made, at the timne, for the payment of Hthe interest an.nually, as it shall accrue, by a tax levied for the pur pose, or from o)ther sources of revenuer which law, pr oviding for the payment of such interest by such tax, shall be irsrepealable un_ -~til such debt be paid -. And'provided, furtker. ,that the law levying the tax shall be submit. MAY 9, 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. ill,79 Mr. WHEATON. In line nine, after the word "act," there is a period. I would suggest whether the word "and," at the cominenceirent of the uext sentence, is at all necessary. Mr. CODY. I think it is not necessary. Mr. WHEATON. I mcve to strike out "and." The inotior, was not agreed to. Mr. CODY. The report continues 170(OSIUI-L'NETO ODY Vacating roads, town plats, streets, alleys and public grounds; Locating or changing county seats; Regulating county and township affairs; Regulating the practice in courts of justice; Regulating the jurisdiction and duties of justices of the peace, police magistrates and constables; Providing for changes of venue in civil and criminal cases; Incorporating cities, towns, or villages, or changing or amending the charter of any town, city or village; Providing for the election of members of the board of supervisors in townships, incorporated towns or cities; Summoning and impanneling grand or petit juries; Providing for the management of common schools; Regulating the rate of interest on money; The opening and conducting of any election, or designating the place of voting; The sale or mortgage of real estate belonging to minors, or others under disability; The protection of game or fish; Cha rter o liing or licensing ferries or tollbridges; Remitting fines, penalties or forfeitures; Creating, increasing or decreasing fees, percentage or allowances of public officers durilg the term for which said officers are elected or appointed; Changing the law of descent; Granting to any corporation, association or individual the right to lay down railroad tracks, or smending existing charters for such purpose; Granting to any corporation, association or individual any special or exclusive privilege, immunity or franchise whatever. In all other cases where a general law can be made applicable, no special law shall be enacted. SEC. 23. The Gen eral Assembly shall have no power to release or extinguish, in whole or in part, the indebtedness, liability or obligati on of any corporation or individual to thi s State, or to any municipal corporation therein. ted to the people with the law authorizing the debt to be contracted SEc. 19. The General Assembly shall never grant or authorize extra compensation, fee or allowance to any public officer, agent, servant or contractor, after service has been rendered or a contract made, nor authorize the payment of any claim or part thereof, hereafter created against the State, under any agreement or contract made without express authority of law; and all such unauthorized agreements and contracts shall be null and void: Provided, the General Assembly may make appropriations for expenditures incurre d in suppressing insurrection or repelling invasion. SEC. 20. The General Assembly shall never ay or assume on be half of this State, the debts of any county, town or township, or of any crorporation whate ver. PAY OF MEMBERS. SeC. 21. T he membe rs of the General Assembly shall receive for their se rvices t he sum of five d ollars per day, during the first session held under this Constitution, and ten cents for each mile necessarily traveled in going t o and returning from the seat of government, to be computed by the Auditor of Public Accounts, and thereafter such compensation as shall be prescribed by law, and no other allowance or emolument, directly or indirectly, for any purpose whatever, except the sum of fifty dollars per session to each member, which shall be in full for postage, stationery, newspapers and all other incidental expenses and perquisites; but no change shall be made in the compensation of members of the General Assembly during the term for which they may have been elected. The pay and mileage allowed to each member of the General Assembly shall be certified by the speakers of their respective houses, and entered on the journals, and published at the close of each session. Mr. CHURCH. Mr. President: I would like to- call the attention of this Convention to what Occurs to me now in regard to the part of section twenty-one, which includes the eighth, ninth and tenth lines, which is as follows: But no change shall be made in the compensation ofmembers of the General Assembly during the term for which they may have been elected. It occurs to me here, without stopping for much reflection, that at all times, if a law shall have been proposed either to decrease or increase the pay, there will be under this Constitution, a portion of one house of the General Assembly in being, whose term will not have expired, and that the inconsistency may result of there being one portion of the General Assembly drawing one kind of pay, and another portion drawing another kind of IaYwould call the attention of the Con vention to this now, not being prepared myself to offer an amendment to cover the defect, if a defect exists. Mr. UNDERWOOD. Mr. President: I understand that the law will riot take effect for two years after its passage. Mgr. CODY. Mr. President: This matter was fully discussed in the Con vention upon that very view of it, and it was understood that no provision made by the General Assembly with regard to the pay of mnembers, should apply to the members of either the house of repre sentatives or she senate, until after the expiration of their terms of office-e-that it Shall only apply to their sacecessors. The article continues: SPECIAL LEGISLATION PROHIBITED. SEC. 22. The General Assembly shall not pass local or special laws in any of the followingt enumerated cases, that is to say: Granting divorces; ~Changing the names of persons or places; Laying out, opening, altefing and working i: roads or highways;. MISCELLANEOUS. SEC. 25. The General Assembly shall pro - vide, by law, that the fuel, stationery and printing paper furnished for use of the State, the copying, printing, binding and distributing the laws and journals, and all other printing ordered by the General Assembly, shall be let by contract to the lowest responsible bidder; but the General Assembly shall fix a maximum price; and no member thereof, or other officer of the State, shall be interested, directly or indirectly, in such contract. Mir. PARKS. MIr. President: I desire the rules to be suspended, so that I may offer the following amendment to be added to this section: But all such contracts shall be subject to the approval of the Governor, and if he disapprove the same, there shall be a re-letting of the contract in such manner as shall be prescribed by law. Mr. HAY. Mr. President: I hope unanimous consent will be given for the suspension of the rule, so that this amendment may be made. I am satisfied such a provision is necessary to the operation of this clause with any benefit to the State. It would have saved thousands of dollars heretofore, and will save thousands of dollars in the future to the State. It is important that it should apply to the next lettings of these contracts, and the amendment has been drawn with the view of covering these contracts, as well as those subsequently made and to be let. The motion of Mr. Parks to suspend the rules, was agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the adoption of the amendment. The amendment offered by Mr. Parks, was agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The gentleman from DuPage [Mr. Cody] will proceed. The section as amended will be enrolled. Mr. CODY. The article, Mr. President, continues. Mr. PERLEY. Mr. President: I would suggest that the word "the" is superfluous, in the clause "for use of the State." Why should it not read "for use of State?" Mr. CODY. The article, Mr. President, continues SEC. 26. The State of Illinois never shall be made defendant in any court of law or equity. SEC. 27. The General Assembly shall have no power to authorize lotteries or gift enterprises, for any purpose, and shall pass laws to prohibit the sale of lottery or gift enterprise tickets in this State. SEC. 28. No law shall be passed which shall operate to extend the term of any public officer after his election or appointment. -Section twenty-nine, Mgr. President, was originally sAction forty-four, which was ordered stricken out, and is stricken out in the report. The section was introduced, I believe, by the gentleman from Grundy [Mr. Peirce]. That will change the numberinlg of the subsequent sections. The section is: BEG. 29. It shall be the duty of the General Assembly to pass such laws as shall be necessrry for the protectig.n of operative miners, by providing fr vcutilation when the IMPEACHMENT. SE.c. 24. The house of representatives shall have the sole power of impeachment, but a majority of all the members elected must concur therein. All impeachments shall be tried by the senate, and when sitting for that purpose the senators shall be upon oath or affirmation to do justice according to law and evidence. When the Governor of the State is tried, the chief justice shall preside. No person shall be convicted without the concur rence of two-thirds of the senators elected. But judgment in such cases shall not extend further than removal from office and disqualification to hold any office of honor, profit or trust under the government of this State. The party, whether convicted or acquitted, shall nevertheless be liable to prosecution, trial, judgment aotd pu nishment according to law. The word "indictment" originally in the section, has been changed to "prosecution," on account of the section in the article on the bill of rights, providing that the General Assembly may abolish the grand jury. It was thought that the word "prosecution" would cover indictment, or any other method of proceeding in such case. Mr. HAINES, of Lake. I insist, then, we ought to make the Constitution consistent iu all its parts. If we give the General Assembly power to amend the Constitution in one respect, they can also in others, to make it consistent. The word "indictment" is now consistent with the Constitution. If the General Assem- bly should abolish the grand jury system so that proceedings will be conducted by prosecution, and not by indictment, this word will become changed by operation of that law. Mr. WHEATON. The Constitution i covers everything. Mr. HAINES, of Lake. I wish thisto 1780 CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION 31ONDAY I stand just as adopted. I object to the committee chal]Link' the word which the Convention has plerced there. The PRESIDENT. The Chair will put the question, whether section twentyfour, as reported by the Committee on Revision, shall be enrolled as a part of the Constitution. Section twenty-four was agreed to. Mr. CODY. The report continues: AY 9, 1870. DEBATES AXI) POOEEDIGS. 1781 The Secretary read the additional section offered by Mr. Wells, for information, as follows: If any member of the General Assemnbly shall vote for or against any bill, in consideration that any other member has voted or shall agree to vote for or against any other bill, he shall be held guilty of bribery, and be forever disqualified from membership in the General Assembly, and be punished as may be provided by law. The PRESIDENT. The question is on the motion to suspend the rules. The motion was not agreed to. Mr. CODY. I will proceed with the next, or fifth article: ARTICLE V. EXECUTIVE DEPARTMENT. SECTION 1. The executive department shall consist of a Governor, Lieutenant Governor, Secretary of State, Auditor of Public Ac counts, Treasurer, Superintendent of Public Instruction, and Attorney General, who shall, each. with the exception of the Treasurer, hold'his office for the term of four years from the second Monday of January next after his election, and until his successor is elected and qualified. They shall, except the Lieutenant Governor, reside at the seat of government during their term ol office, and keep the public records, books and papers there, and shall perform such duties as may be prescribed by tfSEc. 2. The Treasurer shall hold his office for the term of two years, and until his successor is elected and qualified, and shall be ineligible to said office for two years next after the end of the term for which he was elected. He may be required by the Governor to give reasonable additional security, and in default of so doing his office shall be deemed vacant. Mr. ROSS. Mr. President: It occurs to me that this section is objectionable aio leaving it with the Governor alone to require the additionai security. I think that the Legislature should have that power as well as the Governor. Mr. ANTHONY. Mr. President: That, is now fixed by law. There is nothing here that prohibits the Legislature from fixing the amount of the bond of the Treasurer, but if, after the Legislature has fixed the penalty of the bond, the G,)wvertnor should discover it to be necessary that the officer should give addition al security, this provision gives him the S power to demand of the Treasurer addi.c a tional security, in order to make the State secure. Mr. CODY. The article continues: ELECTION. ed by a uspensin of th rules.SEc. 3. An election for Governor, Lieuten- ews rvddfr n osc fie hl Mr. SEGWICK Mr. residnt: Iant Governor, Secretary of State, Auditor of b pone reetdb h eea s movetha therul be uspnded inor-Public Accounts and Attorney General, shallseby der hatwe ay trie ou setio twntybe held on the Tuesday next after the first SE.1. ncaeoavaac,drnth as he the setio inluds tat ndMonday of November, in the year of our rcs ftesnt,i n fiewihi o Lord one thousand eight hundred and seventy- eetv,teGvro hl aeatmoa more with it. ~~~~~two, anti every four years thereafter; for Sn ryapitetuntltenx-meigo h Mr. UNDRWOOD. Beforevotingperintendent of Public Instruction, on the snt,we esalnmnt oepro I wold lke o hae sctios tentyandTuesday next after the first Monday of No- t ilsc fie n n esns oia thirty three read. ~~vember, in the year one thousand eight hun- td h scnimdb h eae( a Mr. CODY. I will rea~dthm - tred and seventy, and every four years there-joiyoalthseaoseetdcnurn agi.after; and for Treasurer on the day last abovebyyaannas,salhlhiofcedrn SEC.20.TheGenralAsseblyshal nvermentioned, and every two years thereafter,threaneoftetr,adutlhsse payor ssue, n bhal ofthi Stte,theat such places and in such manner as may becesrsalbapineanqulfe.N debt ofanycouty,tow ortowshi, o ofprescribed by law.pesnafebenrectdbthseae any corporation whatever.SEC. 4. The returns of every election for salb gi oiae o h aeofc SEC st3. heStae sallneer ay,assmethe above named officers shall be sealed upattesmsesounesathreus or bcom reponibl forthedebs o hait-and transmitted by the returning officers, to h eae rb poitdt h aeofc itie of orin ny annagiv, lan rc — th Sec..retar of State, directed to "The drn h eeso h eea seby ten it crditto r i ai of an pulicorSpeaker of the House of Ren~resentatives," SC 2 h oenrsalhv oe othe cororaton,assoiatin o indvidul. ho shall, immediately after the organization t eoeayofcrwo emyapit The PES l)ENT.The uestin isof the House, and before proceediug to otherincsoficmeec,ngetoduyo on te mtionof he gntlman romDe-business, open and publish the same in themafaacinofc;adhmadelrhi ~alb[Mr Segwik] o supen th rues.presence of a majority of each house ofth ofievcn,adfl thesaeaishri General Assembly, who shall, for that pur-prvddiote aaofvcny A divison was ordered.pose, assemble in the hall of the House of SE.1.TeGvroshlhaepwrt The onvetiondivded,whentheRepresentatives. The pae-son having the gatrpivs omttosadpros motion was not agreed to. highest number of votes for either of said offi-. atrcnito,fralofne,sbett Mr. WELS- Mr Presdent: moveces shall be declared duly elected; but if two.sc euain smyb rvddb a or more have an equal and the highest num- reaiet]h anr fapyn hrfr that the rules ~~~~be ssedd nodrtOe of votes the General Assembly shall, by I E.1.TeGvro[hl ecmad add he ollwingsecionto tis rtiie.joint ballot, choose one of such persons for 1 rincifothmiiayadnvlfreo same may be required, and the co nstructi on of escapement shafts or such other appliances as may secure safety in coal mines, and to provide for the enforcement of said laws by such penalties and punishments as may be deemed proper. SEC-. 30. The General Assembly may provide for establishing and opening roads and carways, connected with a public road, for private and public use. said office. Contested elections for all of said offices shall be determined by both h ouses of the General Assembly, by joint ballot, in such manner as may be prescribed by law. Mr. PEIRCE. Mr. President: I move to strike out the word "up" in the first line. I conceive that if the returns are sealed, they will be sealed up. The expression is unnecessary and inelegant. A division w as ordered. The Conven tion divided, when, there being twenty four in the affirmative, and twenity-five in the negative, the motion of Mr. Peirce to strike out was not agreed to. bAr. CODY. I will continue: ELIGIBILITY. SEC. 5. No person shall be eligible to the office of Governor or Lieutenant Governor who shall not have attained the age of thirty 3 ears, and been, for five years next preceding his election, a citizen of the United States and of this State. Neither the Governor, Lieutenant Governor, Auditor of Public Accounts, Secretary of State, Superintendent of Public Instruction nor Attorney General shall be eligible to any other office during the period for which he shall have been elected. GOVERNOR. SEC. 6 The supreme executive power shall be vested in the, Governor, who shall take care that the laws be faithfully executed. SEC. 7. The Governor shall, at the commencement of each session, and at the close of his term of office, give to the General Assembly information, by message, of the condition of the State, and shall recommend such measures as he shall deem expedient. He shall account to the General Assembly, and accompany his message with a statement of all moneys received and paid out by him from any funds subject to his order, with vouchers, and, at the commencement of each regular session, present estimates of the amount of money required to be raised by taxation for all purposes. SEX. 8. The Governor may, on extraordinary occasions, convene the General Assembly, by proclamation, stating therein the purpose for which they are convened; and the General Assembly shall enter upon no business except that for which they were called together. SEC. 9. In case of a disagredment between the two houses with respect to the time of adjournment, the Governor may, on the same being certified to him by the house first moving the adjournment, adjourn the General Assembly to such time as he thinks proper, not beyond the first day of the next regular session. SEC. 10. The Governor shall nominate and, bv and with the advice and consent of the senate (a majority of all the senators elected concurring, by yeas and nays), appoint all officers whose offices are established by this Constitution or which may be created by law, and whose appointment or election is not otherwise provided fbr;* and no such officeer shall be appointed or elected by the General Assemubly. SEC. 11. in case of a vacancy, during the r ecess of the senate, in any office which is not elective, the Governor shall make a temporary appointment until the next meeting of the senate, when he shall nominate some person to fill such office;* and any person so nominated, who is confirmed by the senate (a ma. jority of all the senators elected concurring by yeas and nays), shall hold his office during the remainder of the term, and until his successor shall be appointed and qualified. No person, after being rejected by the senate, shall be again nominated for the same office. at the same session, unless at the request of the senate, or be appointed to the same office during the recess of the General Assembly. S3c. 12. The Governor shall have power to remove any officer whom he may appoint, in case of incompetency, neglect of duty or malfeasance in office; and he may declare his office vacant, and fill the same as is herein provided in other cases of vacancy. SEC. 13. The Governor shall have power to grant reprieves, commJutations and pardons, after conviction, for all offenses, subject to esuch regulations as mayr be provided by law [relative to the manner of applying therefor, [SEC. 14. The Governor shall be command[er-in-chief of the military and nsava forces sof The last number on your copies, gentlemen, is number thirty. Here are four sections which are in writing, but the Convention will recollect them. Spsc. 31. The General Assemblv may pass laws permitting the owners or occupants of lends to construct drains and ditches for agricuiltural and sanitary purposes, across the lands of others. SEC. 32. The General Assembly shall pass liberal homestead and exemption laws. This, Mr. Preside nt, is th e firs t s ecti o n of the report of the Committee on State, County ausd Munlicipal Indebtedness. SEC. 33. The State shall never pay, assume or become responsible for the debts or liabilities of, or in any manner give, loan or extend its credit to, or in did of, any public or other corporation, association or individual. The following is the section adopted by the Convenition this foren-oor: SEC. 34. The General Assembly shall not appropriate out of the State treasury, or expend on account of the new capitol grounds, ~,nd construction, completion and furnishing of the Srate house, a sum exceeding in the aggregate, three and a half millions of dollars inclusive of all appropriations heretolore made, without first submitting the proposition for an additional expenditure to the legal voters of the State at a general election, nor unless a majority of all the votes cast at such election shall be for the proposed additional expenditure. Mir. IIA-INES, of Cook. Mr. President: I would ask if the word "furnishing" is in it? I did not hear it. Mr. CODY.- It is, Mr. President. Mr. ROSS. Mr. President: It appears that one of the sections is analogous to section twenty. Mr. CODY. The twentieth section reads as follows: SEC. 20. The General Assembly shall never pay or assume, on behalf of this State, the debts of any county, town or township, or of any corporation whatever. The PRESIDENT. Mr. Chair regards the section as different in substance, and of course the question can only be reached by a suspension of the rules. Mr. SEDGWICK. Mr. President: I move that the rule be suspended, in order that we may strike out section twenty as the other section includes that and more with it. Mr. UNDERWOOD. Before voting I would like to have sections twenty and thirty three read. Mr. CODY. I will read them again. SEc. 20. The General Assembly shall never pay or assume, on behalf of this State, the debts of any county, town or township, or of any corporation whatever. 6EC. P3. The State shall never pay, assume or become responsible for the debts'or liabilities of, or -in any manner give, loan or exrtend its credit to or in aid of, any public or other corporation, association or individual. The PRESIDLENT. lThe question is an the motion of the gentlemana from DeKall: [Mr. Sedlgwick] to suspend the rules. A dtvison was ordered. The Convention divided, when the motion was not agreed to. Mr. WELLS- Mr. President: I move that the rules be suspended, in order to) add the fAllowing section to this artil~e. 446 DEBATES AND PROCFEDINGS. 178 1 MAY 9,1870. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION th tae(ecptwenteysal.e.ale.eci..tenyon,inrqurngte.xc-elyo.ti.ot,.u.tecomtted section twenty-one, in requiring the executive department annually to report to the Governor, thereby requiring the Governor to report semi annually to himself Mr. CODY. It mentions all the officers except the Governor. The article continues: the State (except when they shall be called into the service of the United States); and. may call out the same to execute the laws, suppress insurrection, and repel invasion. SEC. 15. The Governor and all civil officers of this State shall be liable to impeachment for any misdemeanor in office. VETO. SEC. 16. Every bill passed by the General Assembly shtall, before it becomes a law, be presented to the Gove rnor. If he approve, he shall sign it, and thereupon it shall become a law; but if he do not approve, he shall return it, with his objections, to the house in which it shall have originated, which house shall enter th e objections at large on its journal, and proceed to reconsider the bill. If, then, tw o-thirds of the members elected agree to pass t he same, it shall be sent, t ogether with the objections, to t he other house, by which it shall likewise be reconsidered; and if approved by two thirds of the m emb er s el ect ed to that house, it shall become a law, notwithstanding the objections of the Governor. But in all such cases, the vote of each house shall be determined by yeas and nays, to be entered on the journal. Any bill which shall not be returned by the Governor within ten days (Sundays excepted) after it shall have been present ed to him, shall become a law in like manner as if he had signed it, unless the General Assembly shall, by their adjournment, prevent its return; in which case it shall be filed, with his objections, in the office of the Secr,tary of State, w ith in te n d ays after such adjournment, or become a law. LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR. SEC. Aq. In case of the death, conviction on impeachment, failure to qualify, resigniation, absence from the State, or other disability of the Governor, the powers, duties, and emoluments of the office for the residue of the term, or until the disability shall be removed, shall devolve upon the Lieutenant Governor. SEC. 15. The Lieutenant Governor shall be President of the Senate, and shall vote only when the senate is equally divided. The senate shall choose a President, pro tompore, to preside in case of the absence or impeachment of the Lieutenant Governor, or when he shall hold the office of Governor. SEC. 19. If there be no Lieutenant Governor, or if the,Lieutenant Governor shall, for any of the causes specified in section seventeen, of this article, become incapable of performning the duties of the office, the president of the senate shall act as Governor until the vacancy is filled or the disability removedand if the president of the senate, for any of the above named causes, shall become incapable of performinlg the duties of Governor, the same shall devolve upon the speaker of the house of representatives. OTHIER STATE OFFICERS. SEC. 20. If the office of Auditor of Public Accounts, Treasurer, Secretary of State, Attorney General or Superintendent of Public Instruction, shall be vacated by death, resig nation or otherwise, it shall be the duty of the Governor to fill the same by appointment, and the appointee shall hold his office until his successor shall be elected and qualified in such manner as may be provided by law. An account shall be kept by the officers of the executive departmeier, and of all the public institutions of the State, of all moneys receiv ed and disbursed by them, severally, from all sources and from every service performed, and a semi-annual report thereof be made to the Governor, under oath; and any officer who makes a false report shall be guilty of perj u~ ry, and punished accordingly. SEC. 21. The officers or'- the executive d e partment and of all the public institutions of the Stats, shall, at least ten days preceding each regular session of the General Assembly, severally report to the Governor, who shall transmit such reports to the General Assem bly, together with the reports of the judges of the supreme court of defects in the Con stitution and laws;* and the Governor may at any time require information in writing, un der oath, from the officers of the executive department and all officers and managers of State institutions, upon any subject relating to the condition, management and expenses of their respective offices.. Mr. ROSS. Mr. President: It seems to me that there is an incorgruity here in THE SEAL OF STATE. SEC. 22. There shall be a seal of the State, which shall be called the "Great Seal of the State of Illinois," which shall be kept by the Secretary of State, and used by him, officially, as directed by law. FEES AND SALARIES. SEC. 23. The officers named in this article shall receive for theirservices a salary, to be Established by law, which shall not be increased or diminished during their official terms. They shall not, after theexpiration of the terms of those in office at the adoption of this Constitution, receive to their own use any fees, costs, perquisites of office, or other compensation. And all fees that may thereafter be payable by law for any services performed by any officer provided for in this artidcle of the Constitution, shall be paid in advance into the State treasury. DsEFINITION AND OATH OF OFFICE. SEC. 24. An office is a public position, created by the Constitution or law, continuing during the pleasure of the appointing power, or for a fixed time, with a successor elected or appointed. An employment is an agency for a temporary purpose, which ceases when that purpose is accomplished. SEC. 25 All civil officers, except members of the General Assembly, and such inferior officers as may be by law exempted, shall, be fore they enter on the duties of their respec ti ve offices, take and subscribe the following oath or affirmation: "I do solemnly swear (or affirm, as the case may be) that I will support the Constitution of the United States and the Constitution of the State of Illinois, and that I will faithlully discharge the duties of the office of - ac. cording to the best of my ability." And no other oath, declaration or test shall be required as a qualification. Mr. BROWNING. If through with that article, I wish to call attention to section twenty-three. The section pro vides that the officers referred to shall not receive any fees, costs, perquisites of office or other compensation. I suppose it would be construed to mean except their salaries, but it is not expressed. This seems to cut them off without any r compensation whatever. Mr. BROMWELL. If the sentences in the section were transposed, so that "com pensation" should come after "salary," and then "fees, perquisites, etc.," the matter ' might be remedied. n Mr. HAYES. Mr. President: I would suggest that the difficulty would be met by throwing the two sections into one. Mr. BROWNING. If the committee will do that it will be satisfactory. The PRESIDENT. The change will be made if there is no objection. L Mr. ANTHONY. Mr. President: I would suggest that the last section should h Ge made a separate article, because that provides the form of oath for all civil officers. s S In the Constitution of the State of New York it was made a separate article, ' and I believe it is in all other Coustitui tions where a similar provision occurs. It is not applicable to the executive of o fice alone, but to all other offices. * Mr. HAINES, of Lake. Mr. Presi dent: I think there would be propriety e in putting sections twenty-four and f twenty-five in a separate article. I would make that suggestion. Mr. CODY. Mr. President: The sugr M estion made is a very good one, and a L separate article could be made very prop erly of this oath, but the committee do not desire to increase the whole number of articles, eunnecessarily. Whi le t hi s matter could with propriety be arranged as a separate article, I do not think there is any impropriety in inserting it here. It was a matter proposed by the Executive Committee, and the commn-ittee decided to place it in the executive arti. cle. Mr. BROMWELL. Mr. President: I would like to move to suspend the rules if necessary, in order to refer that section back to the committee, with instructions to amtend it so that theoath administered to all officers of the State shall conf)rm to the one provided in the legislative article, to be administered to members of the General Assembly. I have discovered, wherever I have been, that that thing is more spoken of by the people than anything we have done here. I have never seen a single man who spoke about that oath at all, but that he was for applying it to all officers. I believe it will give general satisfaction to apply this oath to all officers of the State, that is the part of it that relates to bribes, etc. Some claim that it is a reflection upon the General Assembly when it is not applied to other officers of the State. For my part, I think it right to be done; and I move the rules be suspended for that purpose, to allow the section to be so amended that the oath shall be substantially the same as the oath prescribed for members of the Legislature. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the motion of the gentleman from Coles [Mr. Bromwell], that the rules be suspended, to allow him to move a reconsideration of the action of the Con vention by which it adopted the twenty fifth section of the executive report, and refer the same to the committee, with in structions to report another form of oath. A division was ordered. The Convention divided, when, there being sixteen in the affirmative The PRESIDENT. Two thirds not voting to suspend the rules, the proposi tion cannot be entertained. Mr. HAINES, of Lake. Mr. President: I will make a motion It seems to me the last section should form a separate article. The PRESIDENT. The committee having completed its report, it is now before the Convention. It is competent to recommit the two sections to the Comnmittee on Revision. Mr. HAINES, of Lake. Mr. President: I would rather trust to their judgment than nay own. Mr. CODY. Mr. President: I would ask if the gentleman heard the explanation I made? Mr. HIAINES, of Lake. Mr. President: I did. But the objection, that the Constitution may contain too many articles, is 'not a good one. The subject matter should, if appropriate for a separate article, make one, no matter how many separate articles there may be. The last two sections do) not relate oarticularly to the article to which they stand, and seems to me, would properly constitute a separate article. The reference to the present Constitution suggests the fact that its arrangement is not good. Mr. HAINES, of Cook. Mr. President: I move these two sections be put into a separate articles called "Miscellaneous." I -., - -". I 1 1 r t e I c I f I I e t 1782 AIONDAY, MAY 9' 8(.DBTSAX RCEIG.18 kers, hawkers, merchants, commission merchants, showmen, jugglers, inn-keepers, grocery-keepers, liquor-dealers, toll-bridges, fer Iies, insurance, telegraph and express interests or business, venders of patents, and persons or corporations owning, using or exercising franchises and privileges, in such manner as it shall from time to time direct by general law, uni for m as too he classr upon wh ich it operates. Mr. WASHBURN. Mr. President: I move the adoption of the section, and on that move tlre previous question. The motion for the previous question was agreed to, and the mtin question ordered. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the adoption of the section, and it will be declared adopted. The question is on the adoption of section six, reported by the committee. The Secretary read section six, as f ollows: SEC. 6. The right of. redemption from all sales of real estate, for the non-payment of taxes or special assessments of any character whatever shall exist in favor of owners and persons interested in such real estate, for a period of not less than two years from such sales thereof: and the General Assembly shall provide, by law, for reasonable notice to be given to the owners or parties interested, by publication or otherwise, of the fact of the sale of the property for such taxes or assessments; and when the time of redemption shall expire: Provided, that occupants shall in all cases be served with personal notice before the time of redemption expires. Mr. HAINES, of Cook. Mr. President: Is a substitute in order T. The PRESIDENT. A substitute is in order. Mr. HAINES, of Cook. I desire to offer, dr. President, section four of article nine of the present Constitution, as a substitute for section six. Mr. HAY. Mr. President. I rise to a question of order. That has been up two or three times, and voted on. Mr. ROSS. Mr. President: I thinka majority of the committee were in favor of that section, but, it having been voted down in the Convention, we did not think it proper to offer it again. The PRESIDENT. The Chair willdis d pose of the question of order. It is true that the Convention has voted upon this proposition once, perhaps more than once. But these sections were reconsidered and recommitted to the committee, The Chair therefore regards it as competent to move this substitute. Mr. CUMMINGS. er. President: I Tmove the previous question. w ["Read."' The Secretary read the substitute of fered by Mr. Haines, of Cook, as follows: Szc. 4. Hereafter no purchaser of any land or town lot, at any sale of lands or town lots for taxes due, either to this State or any county, or incorporated town or city within the same, ~or at any sale for taxes or levies authorized by the laws of this State, shall be entitled to a deed for the lands or town lots so purchased, until he or she shall have complied with the following conditions, to wit: Such purchaser shall serve or cause to be served, a written notice of such purchase on every person in possession of such land or town lot, three months before the expiration of the time of redemption onsuch sale; in which notice he shall state when he purchased the land or town lot, the description of-the land or lot he has purchased, and when the time of redemption will expire. In like manner he shall serve on the person or persons in whose name or names such land or lot is taxed, a similar written notice, if such person or persons shall reside ill the county where such land or lot shall be situated, and in the event that the person or persons in whose name or names the land or lot is taxed, do not re side in the county, such purchaser shall pub lish such notice in some newspaper printed'in such county; and if no newspaper is printed in the county, then in the nearest newspaper that is published in this State, to the county, in which such lot or land is situated; which notice shall be inserted three times, the last time not less than three months before the time of redemption shall expire. Every such purchaser, by himself or agen t, shall, before he shall be entitled to a deed, make an affida vit of his having compaied with the condi tions of this section, stating particularly the facts relied on as such compliance; which aft davit shall be delivered to the person author ized by law to execute such tax deed, and which shall by him be filed with the officer having custody of the records of lands and lots sold for taxes and entries of redemption in th e county where such land or lot shall lie, to be by such officer entered on the re c ords of his office, and carefully preserved among the files of his office; and M hich record or affidavit shall be priTna f acie evi dence that such notice has b ee n g i ven. Anlly per son swearing falsely in such affidavit shall be deemed guilty of perjury, and punished ac cordingly. In case atly person shall be com pelled, under this section, to publish a notice in a newspaper, then, before any person who may have a right to redeem such land or lot from such tax sale shall be permitted to re deem, he or she shall pay the officer or person who by law is authorized to receive such redemption money, the printer's fee for publishing such notice, and the expenses of swearing or affirming to the affidavit, and filing the same. The motion for the previous question was agreed to, and the main question ordered. The PRESIDENT. The questi'n is upon striking out section six and insertinlg the substitute which has just been read. Mr. CARY. I call for a division of the question. The PRESIDENT. The question will be taken upon the motion to strike out the sixth section. The motion was not agreed to. Section six was agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the adoption of the additional sect on. The Secretary read the additional section, as follows: That until the year 1875 the State taxes shall not exceed seventy-five cents per hundred dollars, and thereafter shall not exceed fifty cents per hundred dollars, unless authorized by a vote of the electors of the State. Mr. CHURCH. Mr. President: I hope that section will not be adopted. I would be very glad to see even still further restrictions in the Constitution, than we now have provided. I would favor this section if/Icould see that there is not almost a certainty that it will, during the life of this Constitution, if it shald be adopted, operate injuriously and oppressively upon portions of the State, when considered in its practical operation. There are many restrictions, we should remember, in this Constitution against extravagant appropriations. There are many checks which do not exist in the sold Co0nstitution. On examination of the act of 1869, what has been sometimes called the "grab law,"}! find it, as alluded to the other day by the gentleman from Grundy [Mr. Pierce] to apply to the "'increased valuation," and it provides that in any of the counties and cities that have contracted a debt for railroad purposes, all the increased taxes on valuation, above the valuation, -not abovre the tax or the rate of taxation of!868, balt above the valuation of 1868, are to be retained for the benefit of these counties, ff this: Mr. HAINES, of Lake. Mr. President: I would like to have the same caption to the article that the section has now. The caption is proper and covers the subject. The PRESIDENT. The motion is that the last two sections be constituted a separate article, to be defined "Miscellaneous." Mr. HAINES, of Lake. Mr. President: I move to amend by inserting, as the caption of the article, the words now used over the sections. I never like to see the word "miscellaneous" used as a caption. It is just as well to class each article under a head, giving it a distinct character. This term "miscellaneous" here is much like the term "sundries," used by grocers to include various articles, and means nothing in particular. I move to retain th e present cd ption-",definitionn and oath of office." The PRESIDENT. The question is on the motion of the gentleman from Lake [Mr. Haines]. The motion was not agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The questionison the motion of the gentleman from Cook [Mr. Haines]. The motion was not agreed to. THE COMMITTEE ON ADDRESS. Mr. CUMMINGS. Mr. Pres iden t: I ask leave to make a report from a special committee. The PRESIDENT. The report will be received. Mr, CUMMINGS. Mr. President: The special committee, appointed to select and report a committee on "address to the people," would recommend the followitng names, and ask the Convention to concur therein, to wit: Hons. W. H. Underwood, 0. H. Browning, L. S. Church, James C. Allen, Milton Hay, S. S. Hayes, H. P. H. Bromwell, Lewis W. Ross, George E. Wait, Edward Y. Rice, William Cary, William J. Allen, William Goodhue, Jesse S. Hildrup, James W. English, Joseph Medill. ...... RRespectfully submitted, S. P. CUMMINGS, J. L TINeiER, WM. B. ANDERSON', CHARLES F. SPRINGER, D. C. WAGNER, The PRESIDENT. The question is upon concurrence with the committee in their report. The report was concurred in. FINANCE. The PRESIDENT. The Chair will state that the ieport of the Committee on Finance is laying on the table, subject to the action of the Convention. M r. ROSS. Mr. Preside nt: I move that that report be now taken up and considered. The motion was agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The Secretary will read the second section reported by the Committee on Fina nee, to take the place of the second section, reported by the Committee on Revenue. The Secretary read the second section reported by the Committee on Finance, as foll,)ws. The General Assembly shall provide such further revenue as may be needful, by levying a tax, by valuation, so that every person and corporation shall pay a tax in proportion to the value of his or her property, such value to be ascertained by sorne person or persons to be elected or appointed in such manner as the General Assembly shall direct, and not otherwise; but the General Assembly Fall have power to tax peddlers, auctioneers, bro i MAY 9, 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1783 178w CO~~STITUTJO~~AL CONV~~~TIO~ MONDAY, e We may as well talk plainly here. We, e all of us, understand this device. If , seven and one half mills will not furnish f sufficient revenue, for all expenses of this - State, including the new State house, the t Legislature wilt simply increase the valu,- ation of the property, will put another t hundred million, or two, or five hundred s millions, on the valuation of the property s of the State. From the present quarter valuation, they will raise it to a half, and 3, from a half to two thirds, and from twoe thirds to a full cash value, and then they u may levy upon that full valuation seven ~t and one-half mills. Therefore, this re- striction au.ounts to nothing as against e taxation. It is no benefit to the tax payer. 3 It is a mere rope of sand in the way of d preventing or limiting taxation. t It is not worth a bundle of straw as an obstacle to the Legislature, and utterly s valueless to the tax-payer. So long as y the basis of valuation of less than one e third of its cash value of the property of e this State, is adhered to, it may limit the u Legislature; or if the property of the r State had been taxed at its full cash -value, previous to 1868, there might be I some little value in this proposition; - but the practical proposition is to roll on I such counties as have not involved them y selves in debt under the act of 1869, e eyery do,llar that may be levied upon the people of the State, f,)r the support of , the government, over and above what e seven and a half mills may yield, upon e the present valuation. I ask gentlemen whether they have not gouged these counties that have kept out of the "grab law" deep enough? Is it i not enough for the counties that are avail ing themselves of the grab law to have . the benefits it now yields them, and therewith be conteut? They have now all the S. ate taxes derived on all valua tion over the year 1868 to apply in subsi t dizing local railroads. Is it honest, is it i right, is it legal in any moral point of 1 view to put a provision in the Constitu. tion to invite or compel the Legislature to enhance the valuation of property, so that this enhanced valuation shall inure to the special benefit of those counties which have grabbed St te taxes under the grab act of 1869, and roll the entire deficiency upon the counties that have not so grabbed State taxes? .Gentlemen may give specious and de s iusive reasons, may talk about the neces. L sity of fixingg a limit in the Cons~titution against State taxes. But unless we limit [ the valuation, it is worthless. Why, sir, nuder a full cash valuation, seven and a 3half mills would enable the Legislature tol raise fourteen million dollars or fifteen million dollars of taxes on the present cash value of the property in this State, while half of that sum would be retained and perverted by the grab law counlties. Consequently this proposition can have no usefu[ or honest purpose, and should ,not he adopted unless this Conventions .intend to rob and plunder certain por tions of the State for the benefit of other portions. I am astonished at the persistence with which this evil proposition has been crowded and pressed upon the Conven tion. Do its advocates suppose that the delegates froth the counties not involved in the grab law business are ton simple minded to understand the real purpose of this amendment, or the i~'ustice of it [Here the hammer fell.] e debt mor e tha n $3,000,000. Then there will be, to be rais ed beyond that for thu f purpose of paying of the State debt e about $2,000,000, and the r e is no kind or r ques tion but that the fu nd from the' Illi f nois Central road will be quite sufficien to ex tinguish that debt in five years, to ;- gether with its interest. The presenl s assessment of the property of thi s State io e about $500,000,000. Th i s limitati on allow, 3- us to assess on that property seven and t one-half mills to the d ollar for five years n and at the expiration of that time, fiv mills. That five mills to the dollar on al t- assessment of $500,000,000 will make jus $2,500,000 per annum. The most extrav a agant year of the expenditure of the y money of this State for ordinary expens a es has never exceeded $1,000,000, an f yet under the pending section, withou i- contemplating any increase whatever in t the assessment of the property of this [- State, the five mills on the dollar, or fifty cents per hundred dollars, will raise more - than double the ordinary expenses of the I State government. Seventy five cents on L the hundred dollars would bring over e $3,500,000. Whatdo we want more mon 1, ey than that for? The Illinois Centra - railroad fund will pay the present indebt a edness, and $3,000,000 per annum will e certainly be a great deal more money y than will be expended on the State house t i:i two, three or five years. With an in e come of $3,000,000 per year, we have after paying the ordinary expenses of the e State, $2,000,000 a year, which, for five t years, will amount to $10,000,000 to pay for the State house and other public r buildings. The report of the committee was based on a calculation that the value of the as sessments of the State was not to be in creased, and that if not increased, the funds even thus obtained would be am ply sufficient not only to defray the or dreinary expenses of government, even at f the most extravagunt rates, but within three or five years at most, to pay off all - the expenses of the public improvements that have been commenced. We have l already, by the action of this Convention, prescribed a limit of three million five hundred thousand dollars for the State t house. It is sir, an amount which no person expects the expenditures of the government would ever reach. [ Mr. MEDILL. I must enter my pro; tet against this proposition. It comes t into this Convention now, in shape of a w report from a regular committee. It first p presented its ugly features in the form of f an amendment to a section of an article. g I object to it, because, first, that it is e wholly needless in the Constitution; see h ondly, because it will never accomplish its pretended purpose; and thirdly, be c cause it is intended to accomplish a con cealed purpose. These are my objections S in a lump. o The assfumed purpose of this amend mernt is, to restrain the Legislature from m exceeding certain limits, in the levying of taxes-that is the pretended assump tion-that is the chaff with which young bbirds are to be caught-that is the spi der's web in which small flies are to be entrapped. The real purpose of it, the regular old cat in the meal tub, is to fix a limit which the Legislature will be pretty sure to exceed when in order to raise . money, it must increase the valuation of the property of the State, for the benefit of the "grab law counties." 1784 CONSTITUTIONAL CONYENTION 31ONDAYI Constitution should be adopted it will b in force for many years, and there ma be times when there may be necessity o raising more money perhaps than th ,,-evein ar-d a half iiiil,ls will provide fo without a g"eat increase of valuation o the property by the asses:;ors. We hoie not, but at all events, what ever changes may be necessary, it lay the foundation for requiring it to be don by an increase of valuation. The gentle man from Fulton [Mr. Ross] spoke ver eloquently this morning, in favor of a increase of valuation of the property i t'ne State. Gentlemen of the Conven tion will see what will be the effect. His and other counties like his, will keep at the excess. We have, this morning, ver idcoi,siderately, I tliiii,k, voted to allow debt still to be contracted in the city ( Quincy of half a million, which, in addi tion to what has at present been contract ed, will amount to several millions of dot lars. I am told this applies to several cou-n ties and cities in the State, which wil never, during the life of this Coiastitu tion, if their law should be held to b constitutional and should be extended be required to pay into the State treas 'ury, anv tax upon any increased valuatio over the valuation of 1868. The Stat government then will have to be run b other counties in the State. I-'do no then wish to see auythirg put into th Constitution that wilt lay the foundatio for any increase of valuation in all of th counties of this State,'if the effect mus necessarily be to compel one county t pay the State expelses while anothe county uses the tax to pay their ow debts with. I am satisfied, sir, upon an examinatio of tl-ie section, on an examination of th law and on reflection upon the whole sub ject, -that this sectioii ought not to b adopted, that its effect wilt probably b felt to be idjui,ious by a large majority o the counties of this State,; and that ther are restrictions in the Constitution, in cluding executive vetoes, including th prohibitions against special legislatio and various other specific limitations, and prohibitions, that will be a sufficient guard against extravagance in the future, if i should not be adopted. Mr. WASHBURN. Mr. President: ho e that hi se' MA7,17.DBTSAU RGEIG.18 Mr. ROSS. Mr. President: I regret very much that my friend from Cook [Mr. Medill] apprehends sinister motives in the action of the Committee on Finance. I can assure him that he is entirely mistaken. The committee considered this subject very fully, and based this report on the assessments as they now exist, taken from the evidence in the Auditor's office. The committee were a unit, every member being in favor of the proposition submitted by it. If this law will give us $2,500,000, what more do we want? If it requires a million of dollars to run the State government, and we collect this year, under existing laws, six millions of dollars, which, with the Illinois Central railroad fund will discharge the balance of the State debt, what do we want of more money? I do not know what "grab" or "steal law" my friend from Cook wants to get through a subsequent Legislature. I know that county generally has a lobby down here to get something through for parks, or something of the kind in Chicago. Will not this satisfy the most avaricious- those who desire to run their arms farthest into the State treasury? Sir, there is nothing that would be so grateful to the overburdened tax payers of Illinois, as to have an assurance that, though in the dim distance, some time the floodgates are to be shut down and some limit put on the corrupt rings that every two years collect at the State capital, and, by corrupt influences, induce the Legislature to make these extraordinary and reckless appropriations. The gentlemen who have discussed this question, have not shown why $2,500,000 is not sufficient for the Legislature to collect from the people, as State taxes-and that can be collected without increasing the assessment. I supposed these gentlemen would have been satisfied with the efforts to repeal the law of 1869, when they had got a constitutional provision submitted to the independent vote of the people, to repeal it. Do they distrust the voters? Are they afraid to trust the people upon the independent proposition? There are many defects in our work, but many of them will be lost sight of by the tax-payers, if they can see soIAe constitutional limitation on the Legislature, in squandering the public money as they have done in the past few years. Mr. MEDILL. Will the gentleman accept of the amendment offered by the gentleman from Grundy [Mr. Peirce]? Mr. ROSS. Does the gentleman ask, in good faith, all the assessors in Illinois, to perjure themselves, in order to give a - swindle to Chicago? Such is the effect of the amendment. I trust he does not. It is understood full well-just as well as it was by the gentleman from Cook [Mr. Medill], when he informed me, a few days ago, that one of his colleagues [Mr. Hayes], was an expert in getting up substitutes and amendments, to destroy the effect of the law of 1869. Mr. President, I do not believe that the Constitutional Convention will justify the conduct of these men further in trifling with the opinion of the Convention in attempting to repeal the laws of th, State of Illinois. In this section I merely ask, for the protection of the tax-payers of the State, that a provision of this kind shall be inserted in the Constitution —a provision limiting the right of taxation. Who does not know that the taxes are Mr. PEIRCE. Mr. President: I took occasion, when the resolution containing the substance of this article was introduced, to make some remarks, calling the attention of the Convention to the unjust operation of this provision, and hoped when the resolution was referred to the Committee on Finance, that those facts had made such an impression as to have induced those interested, if they saw fit to recommend the article, to so amend it as to avoid this injustice. Now, sir, the injustice of this is that, under the operation of the law of 1869, under which $2,000,000 worth of railroad bonds are now registered in the Auditor's office of this State, and which authorizes the refunding of the excess of State tax above the tax of 1868, all counties which have not engaged in railroad enterprises will be compelled to carry on the State government, and build the new State house, etc., while the counties which have availed themselves of that law will go virtually "scot free." They will be practically exempt from contributing their just share toward the ordinary expenses of the State government, if we place in the Constitution a limitation of the power of taxation for State purposes, at sixtyfive cents on a hundred dollars. I have no doubt, sir, that in the minds of some men this is introduced with the design to compel the increase of the valuation of property so as to increase the injustice of the operation of this'"taxstealing ",law now on the statute books. Now, to test the sincerity of my friends who urge these limitations, I have an amendment to offer; and if they are sincere in.their claim, and wish only to prevent the extravagance of the Legislature and the undue expenditure of money, they will be ready at once to accept it. I will read the amendment: And no increase of the valuation of any class of property above the valuation of the year 1868 shall be made. If the intention is to prevent the increase of taxation upon property above that of 1868, I can conceive some good to grow out of this article. But, sir, if the practical operation of that article may be nullified and defeated by an increase of valuation of property up to its cash value, then this article is worthless, and is only trifling with the people. I can see no good in placing any restriction like this in the Constitution. It-is eminently defective. If the gentlemen only desire to prevent the extravagant expenditure of money, of course they will only be glad to have an amendment introduced which-will add to the value of their article, and prevent, by any indirect means, the defeat of its real intention. It seems to me this will give strength and force to the proposition, will prevent what ought to be its real purpose from defeat, and will prevent injustice to such counties as I represent, to the detriment of which, if not amended, this proposition will be sure to result. Such counties as my own, which,have no railroad debt, will be compelled, under the operation of that article, to pay the expenses of the State, the administration of its charities and building of its State house, while counties now building roads with the drawbacks of 1869, will be exempted from all excess of taxation, above that of 1868. 447 MAY 9) 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS., 1785 onerous and burdensome upon the people? The State tax is now thirteen and one-half mills upon the dollar, raising in one year for State purposes over $6,000,000; and, sir, when we come to add to this our county taxes, which are heavy, our township taxes, which are heavy, our school taxes, which are heavy, and when there is added to all of these between $400,000,000 and $500,000,000 of national tax upon the whole property collected from the people of the country for the use of the national treasury-when there is added to this four or five hundred. millions of taxes already imposed upon a coerced and down-trodden people, about $150,000,000 paid indirectly by means of the unjust tariff laws now in force, for the benefit of monopolies and the greedy, avaricious manufacturers of this-country -then these burdens become intolerable, such as no people can or should endure. Let us. heed the popular demand, by placing a limit in the Constitution against such legislative corruption and extortion. Mr. TINCHER. Mr. President: I move the previous question. Mr. ANDERSON. Mr. President: I would ask the gentleman to withdraw the motion a- moment. As my motives in introducing the proposition under discussioia have been impugned, I hope that I may be allowed to say a word. Mr. TINCHER. My motives must also have been impeached, Mr. President, -for I moved to amend by making it sixty-five cents instead of seventy-five, but let the motive and the impeachment go together, I insist upon my motion. A division was ordered. The Convention divided, when, there being twenty-five in the affirmative and tw(,,nty-eight in the negative, the motion of Mr. Tincher for the previous questioa. was not agreed to. Mr. ANDERSON. Mr. President: Mr.,HAINES, of Lake. Mr. President: I have an amendment'which I hope the gentleman will allow me to offer,. and then he can go on with his remarks. I would offer it as a substitute for the amendment of the gentleman from Grundy [Mr. Peirce]. The PRESIDENT. A substitute for the amendment is not in order. A sub-' stitute for the proposition or for the sec Provided, That all excess of revenue raised by taxation. bv any valuation exceeding that, of 1868, shall'p; paid into the State treasury, to be used only for State purposes, any law the contrary notwithstanding. Mr. ANDERSON. Mr. President: I regret exceedingly that the gentleman from Cook [Mr. Medill] has gone so far out of his way to impugn my motives in introducing the proposition I have brought before this body. Sir,'if ever I did anything in good faith, with an honest intention toward the people of the whole State of Illinois, it was the introduction of this proposition limiting the power ofthe Legislature to tax our people. And I cannot see by what tortuous mode of thought the gentleman has rought himself to the point of denouncing me upon this floor as acting in bad faith in this matter. Mr. President. if it is our province to limit the Legisliure', It is our bounden duty to prescribe a limit, beyond which 17SG ()ONSTITUTIOAL ()ONVTIO MONDAY Peirce] will himself tell us that his taxes are nine to ten cents on the dollar. It is so in Cook county. It is so in other counties. Now, what are we driving at? We are attempting to limit them. We are attempting to relieve the people by reducing taxes, and that was my motive in the introduction of the proposition now under consideration. I offered it in good faith, and I am ready to stand by what I have done. I believe that it will be sanctioned by the people, more than any other measure that this Convention can adopt. Now, -these gentlemen tell us we want to increase the assessments. I say we do not desire to do this, but we want to limit taxation upon the assessments. What was the amount of revenue we received in 1864, on an assessment of $356,000,000? It was $2,500,000. The revenue of 1865, on an assessment of $392,000,000, was $2,400,000. The revenue for 1866, on $410,000,000, was$2,663,000. For $500, 000,000, in 1867, we received $3,520,000. For 1868, on $474,000,000, we received $2,887,000 revenue. In 1869, on an assessment of $491,000,. 000, the State received $6,383,000. Now reduce the taxes to sixty-five cents on the hundred dollars, and what would be our f revenue for the State? It would amount to $3,191,000, not including the $500,000 we receive now annually from the Illinois t Central railroad fund. Add that to it and see where our revenue would be. It - would foot up to $3,691,000. My object, and the object of the committee was, not L to increase the assessment, but to reduce , taxation upon the assessment. The >mount i to which we propose to reduce the rate of taxation, on the usual assessments, which will continue at the figures of past years, is amply sufficient to meet all legitimate - and proper expenditures of the State gov ernment. - Our present burdens in the way of tax ation are heavy enough in all conscience for the full amount of our taxes at pres ent, both national and State, consume one full fifth of all the earnings of our peo 1 ple. To pay these enormous and exhor s bitant taxes, a laboring man must devote - sixty working days annually. [Here the hammer fell]. The PRESIDENT. The question i, y upon the amendment proposed by the 1, gentleman from Grundy [Mr. Peirce]. o Mr. HAY. Mr. President: I move to o- lay the section and the amendment on '- the table. r_t Mr. ANDERSON. Mr. President: I f, call for a division of the question, and n ask that the vote be taken first upon th proposition, and then upon the amend s, ment. i, The PRESIDENT. The question wil s; be upon laying upon the table the amend in ment offered by the gentleman from a Grundy [Mr. Peirce]. I The Secretary read the amendment of n ferred by Mr. Peirce, as follows: r, And no increase of the valuation of an af class of Property above the valuation of th e- year 18X8 shall be made. sr The yeas and nays were ordered, and re being taken, resulted yeas 34, nays 23e as follows: i s Wall, Washburn, Wells, Wendling, Wilson, Wright-34. NAYS. Anthony, Haines of Lake,Sedgwick, Cameron, Harwood, Sherrill, Church, Hayes, Sutherland, Cross, McCoy, Wagner, Gamble, Medill, Wait, Goodell, Parker, Wheaton, Goodhue, Peirce, Whiting-23. Haines of Cook,Pillsbury, year. they shall not go, in the expenditure of the people's money. If there be one thing that the people complain of above all others, it is excessive and burdens ome taxation, it is the heavy hand of the tax gatherer resting Upon the toiling masses of our great State, and our great nation. For the last twenty years no Legislature has ever gone beyond seventy-seven cents on the hundred dollars in the assessments upon the property of the State, until last year. Mr. MEDILL. Will the gentleman allow me to interrupt him? I was not aware that he was the author of the amendment, and I intended no personal disrespect to him or any of the committee who indorsed it, in anything I said. MIy remarks were directed against what it contains, and not against its authors. I was dealing with the argument of its supporters, and had no reference to them personally. I objected to the amendment because I believe its practical effect will be to oppress one part of the State for the benefit of other parts, and that it will never reduce taxes a dollar or restrict the Legislature a-particle. I asked the gentleman from Fulton [Mr. Rossl if he would accept Mr. Peirce's amendment, limiting the valuation of property to that of 1868, and he answers "No, because he is opposed to requiring the assessors to perjure themselves." Then he is in favor of assessing property at its full valuation. The effect of that procedure would be to treble the present State valuation, and all the taxes obtained on this increase over the valuation of 1868, would not go into the State treasury, not a dollar of it, but would inure to the use of the counties that are building railroads under the act of 1869, so that two-thirds of the whole State taxes would be pocketed by them, and the other counties would have the greater share of the burden of supporting the government packed on their backs. It is this 1 object to and resist. Mr. ANDERSON. There has been a great deal said about the "grab law," and the worst that has been said about it has been by men who are pretty good at grab bing themselves, and are accustomed also, to not paying their own taxes. In 1840 the State taxes were twenty cents on the hundred dollars; in 1841 thirty cents, in 1842, fifteen cents, and s( on down, as follows: Twenty, twenty one, thirty-five, thirty, thirty-five, fifty seven, fifty-eight, forty, forty-naine, forty :five, sixty-seven, until we reach 1863 wvhen they were swollen to seventy-sevex cents. In'64, they were seventy-five cents and in'65, seventy-two cents; in'66 seventy cents; in'67, seventy-seven cents in 1868, sixcty-five cents, and in 1869, t, $1t 30. Now, what I want is, to put limit to this enormous increase. What want is, to prevent the Legislature fron placing the tax at $1 30 again hereafte, and to bring its back to the old figure c 1865. I want the Legislature to be ran Stricted. If there is one thing it is ou duty to do, it is to restrict the Legislatur in these enormous expenditures of th people's monley, that to-day are crushin them to the earth. Go into those very counties where get tiemen are complaining of the limitatto upon the Legislature, and what do w see? The gentleman frm Grundy [M. Allen of A lex., Cary Poage, Allen, of Cr'fd,Coolbaugh, Robinson, Archer, Dement, Scholfield Atkins, English, Skinner, Bayne, Hanna, Springer, Bowman, Hart, Tubbs, Brown, Hildrup, Turner, Bryan, McDowell, Mr. President —~. Buxton, Perley, So the motion of Mr. Hay, to lay on the table the motion of Mr. Peirce, was agreed to. Mr. HAINES, of Lakc. I have an amendment I wish to offer. The PRESIDENT. Amendments are not in order. The question is on laying the section on the table. The yeas and nays were ordered, and being taken, resulted-yeas, 28, nays, 27 -as follows: NAYS. Fuller, Tincher, Haines of L'ke,Underwood, Hankins, Vandeventer, King, Wall, Neece, Washburn, Rice, Wells, Ross, Wendling,Sharp, Wilson, Snyder, Wright-27. ABSENT. OR NOT VOTING. Allen of Alex.Coolbaugh, Perley, Allen of Cr'fd.,Dement, Poage, Archer, English, Robinson, Atkins, Hanna, Scholfield, Bayne, Hart, Skinner, Bowman, Hildrup, Springer, Brown, McCoy, Tubbs, Bryan, McDowell, Turner Buxton, Moore, Mr. President-28. Cary, So the motion of Mr. Hay to lay on the table the first additional section reported by the Co mmitt ee o n Finance, was a greed t o. Mr. WASHBURN. I move the previous question on the adoption of the second additional section. The PRESIDENT. The question ison the adoption of the section. The Secretary read the second additional section as follows: SEC. -. County authorities shall never assess taxes, the aggregate of which shall exceed seventy-five cents per one hundred dollars valuation, except for the payment of indebtedness existing at the adoption of this Constitution, unless authorized by a vote of the people of the county. Mr. HAINES, of Cook. I have an amendment to offer to ~hat. t t s e r t 0 t t t e s e 8 0 r t i CONSTITUTIONAL CONYENTION MONDAY 1786 ody, raig, ummings, ldredge, Ilis, orman, ox,, Moore, Neece, Parks, Rilpe, Ross, Sharp, ABSENT, OR -NOT VOTING. YEA.S. l[laines of Clok,Pillsburv, Harwood, Sedewick. ]E,ay, Sherill, - Hayes, Sutherland, M6dill, Truesdale, Merriam Wagner Parker, wit, Parki3, Wheaton,- I Peirce, Whitiiag-28. Anthony, Browning, Cameron, Church, Craig, Cross,-' Eldredge, Gamble, Goodell, Goodhue, Abbott, Andert3on, Benjamin, BromweR, Cody,, cummingsi Ellis, Forman, Fox, YEA.S. Full 'IV? H...) Hay, KL,,g, M "iam, Snyder, Tincher, Truesdale, Underwood, Vandeventer, Abbott t Anderson, Beinjamin, Brom7ell, Browning, DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. The PRESIDENT. The adopted sections will be referred to the Committee on Revision and Adjustment. ADJOURNMENT. Mr. WENDLING. Mr. President: I move that the Convention do now adjourn. The motion was agreed to. So the Convention (at five o'clock and fourteen minutes) adjourned. The Secearegary rea d th e amendment offered by Mr. Haines, of Cook, as follows: And city authorities shall never assess taxes the aggregate of which shall exceed one hundred cents on the one hundred dollars valuation, except for payment of indebtedness existing at the adoption of this Constitution. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the adoption of the amendment of the gentleman from Cook [Mr. Haines]. The yeas and nays were ordered, and being taken, resulted- yeas 10, nays 40as follows: te per paper, three dozen letter envelopes, and two common cedar pencils, and the yi are charged at six d ollar s and ninety-two cents. There may haveo beent some wra pping paper furnished to the door-keeper, in which to put up the Convention Register to be sent away daily,:but that, if furnished, could hardly swell the sum to the amount charged. -: The PRESIDENT.; There -are two recommendations of:the committee upon which it is proper to put the question of concurrence. The question is upon oncurrence with the committee. Mr. SNYDER. Mr. President: I wish to say, as chairman of:the: Committee upon Mines and Mining, that there was net one single cent's worth of stationery used by that committee. The stationery was left in the room without my'consent, and carried back and deposited in the office of the Secretary of State- untouched by the committee. Mr. MEDILL. I observe that the Legislative Committee is charged four hundred and twenty dollars for clerk hire. We had a clerk, but for no such length of time as this would indicate. I am inclin'ed to think that the clerk, Mr. Washburn, who acted subsequently for several other committees, has had his whole;time charged to our committee. His services with our committee could not have amounted to more than half that sum. Mr. TURNER. Mr. President: I notice several committees are charged with janitors. A few days after I had been appointed chairman of the Printing Committee, a very nice young gentleman presented ihimself, stating that he had been assigned to my committee as clerk, and that my room was war-med —and ready for me. I told him: I had no need of a clerk or room, and the consequence is I am not charged with things. Perhaps if the gentleman had nots reported to me I would have been -charged as other gentlemen are. I: promptly discharged the man and notified: the Secretary of State of the facts. Mr. WHEATON. Mr. President: I notice the Committee upon Canal and Canal Lands are charged sixteen, dollars for stationery. There was not one-quarter of that amount of stationery used by that committee. I carried the rest back to the Secretary of State's office and asked him to give me a receipt. He declined to do so, but said he would report to the Convention the items returned. Whether he has done so I do not know. Mr. ROSS. Mr. President- This is so valuable a document, and the committee has performed its duty so well in disclosing the frauds and peculations perpetrated at the seat of government, that in my judgment it would be proper to publish an extra number of copies of that document for distribution, that the people may have this question before them in the next election of the representatives tothc Legislature. I think the country will be astounded at the corruption in high places, that they will be grateful to the committee for ferreting out and exposing enormous frauds perpetrated fby the State officers upon the treasury of the State. I move that a thousand extra copies of the report be printed for distribution among the people. Mr. HAY. Mr, President: I would suggest that probably some other recommenduation had better be made. I desire mething practical to result from this. NINE TY-SE COND DAXY. TUESDAY, May 10, 1870. The Convention met at nine o'clock, A. M., and was called to order by the President. YEAS. Cary, Hankins, Church, Hayes, Haines of Cook,Moore, Haines of L'k., PRAYER. Prayer was offered by the Rev. Mr. Wines, of Springfield, as follows: Our Father, which art in Heaven, We thank Thee for all Thy love toward us, manifested in Thy gifts both temporal and spiritual, manifested above all in the gift of Thy son, Jesus Christ, as the Savior of the world; and we beseech Thee that Thou wilt make us grateful, and help us to testify our gratitude t o Thee, by devoting our lives to Thy serv. ice. Deliver us from all self-seeking, help us to be wholly consecrated to God. We pray Thee that Thou wilt make us useful. Preserve us from all temptation and sin. Help us to discharge all our duties to our fellow men, and to Thee, so that at the last day it may be said to each of us, "Well done, good and faithful servant, enter into the joy of thy Lord." We pray Thee be with us in these closing hours of this Convention. We thank Thee for all the love and fellowship manifested here. We thank Thee for Thy care over us, and for Thy care over our absesnt families. We pray Thee bless the labors which have been performed here. Grant that they may result in promoting the highest interest of the people of this State. We ask all in the name and for the sake of Jesus Christ our Lord. Amen. READING OF THE JOURNAL. The Secretary proceeded to read the journal of the last day's proceedings, when- Mr. SHARP. Mr. President: I move that the further reading of the journal be dispensed with. The motion was agreed to. REPORT ON SCHEDULE. Mr. MEDILL. Mr. President: I move that the Convention resolve itself into Committee of the Whole, for the consideration of the report of the Committee on Schedule The PRESIDENT. The report will be received, and laid on the table; but the morning order of business has not yet been disposed of, and the motion to resolve i nto Committee of the Whole is not in order. POSTAGE AND ARTICLES DRAWN BY CON VENTION. Mr MOORE. Mr. President: I desire to present a report from a standing committee. [The report will be found in the Appendix —"No. 17."] Mr. BROWNING. I intended tp inquire of the chairman as soon as he completed the reading of his report, whether t he committee had examined the prices of each article charged to the members of the Convention. I find I am charged with six dollars and ninety-two cents in the report. - I took the pains, Mr. President, to keep an account of the articles ordered and re e- ived. They consist of one quire of let. Sharp, Sherrill, Snyder, Sutherland, Tincher, Truesdale, Underwood, Vandeventer, Wagner, Wait, Wall, Wendling, Wright-40. ABSENT, OR NOT VOTING. Allen of Alx'n, Craig, Poage, Allen of Crf'd, Dement, Robinson, Archer, English, Ross, Atkins, Hanna, Scho field, Bayne, Hart,. Skinner, Bowman Harwood, Springer, Bromwell, Hildrup, Tubbs, Brown, King, Turner, Bryan, McDowell, Washburn, Buxton, Peirce, Wilson, Coolbaugh, Pillsbury, Mr. President-33. So the amendment offered by Mr. Haines, of Cook, was not agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the adoption of section two of the report of the Finance Committee. The yeas and nays were ordered, and, being taken, resulted-yeas 34, nays 20 -as follows: Abbott, Hain esof L'k, Snyder, Anderson, Hankins, Tubbs, Bromwell, Harwood, Underwood Cary, King, Vandeventer, Church, Moore, Wait Cody, Neece, Washburn, Cummings, Parker, Wells, Ellis, Perley, Wendling, Forman, Rice, Wheaton, Fox, Ross, Whiting, Fuller Sharp, Wright-34. Haines of Cook, NAYS. Anthony, Goodell, Sedgwick, Benjamin, Goodhue, Sherrill, Browning, Hay, Sutherland, Cameron, Hayee, Truesdale, Cross, McCoy, Wagner, Eldredge, Medill, Wall-20. Gamble, Parks, Allen, of Alx.,Craig, Poage, Allen, of Crfd.,Dement, Robinson, Archer, English, Scholfield, Atkins, Hanna, Skinner, Bayne, Hart, Sprnger, Bowman, Hildrup, Tincher Brown, McDowell, Turner, Bryan, Merriam, Wilson, Buxton, Peirce, Mr. President-29. Coolbaugh, Pillsbury, So the second additional section reported by the Commitee on Finance was agreed to. - i M.&Y 9) 1870. 1787 Wells, Wheaton, 1 Whiti.g_ 0. . NA.Y$. Gamble, Goodell, Goodhue, H.yl Medill, Merriam, Neece, Parker, Parks, Perley, Rie-e Seddle,k, Abbott, Anderson, Anthony, Benjamin, Browning, Cameron, Cody, Cross, Cummings, Eldredge, Ellis, Forman, Fox Fuler, TEAS. A.BSENT, OR NOT VOTING. 1q88 UON~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~TITUTIONAL OONYE~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~TIO~~~~~~~~~~~~ T~~~~~~~~~~SDAY,~~~~~~~~~~~~~ to the room. I supposed he was one kept for the purpose of attending to several of such rooms at once, and had no idea he would be employed for that committee, especially. I think none of the committee had such an idea. They supposed one man was appointed to take charge of divers rooms. It seems, however, that a separate janitor is charged to each committee. To my mind it is a preposterous thing. Mr. CAMERON. Mr. President: I desire to state in explanation of the charge in this report for a janitor for the Military Committee room, that it is correct. A janitor did attend, but his services were not confined to the Military Committee, as he attended other committees, and rendered other services, while the charge, as explained more fully by the statement of the gentleman from DeWitt [Mr. Moore] is all made, not improperly, I suppose, to the Military Committee. Mr. ROSS. Mr. President: My motion is to print-and I suppose under the standing order two hundred copies will be printed., Mr. WENDLING. What is the recommendation of the committee? The PRESIDENT. That certain sums be paid to certain employees of the Convention. That is the only question for concurrence. Mr. WENDLING. Is there any recom merdation in regard to the sums paid to the Secretary of State for the articles we have drawn? The PRESIDENT. There is none. Mr. WENDLING. Mr. President: If I understand the chairman of the committee, the gentleman from Greene [Mr. English], together with other gentlemen here, are charged with abouit eighty dollars worth of stationery. Mr. President, I hope that whatever the committee recommends in the way of an investigation of this entire matter will be adopted, and that the whole thing may be laid bare to public inspection. I know, sir, from a direct examination of accounts in the Secretary's office, that charges of the most extravagant character are made against members of this Convention. I have had an opportunity, sir, to investigate not only my own account, but the accounts of one or two friends; a nd I have ascertained that we are charged at the rate of thirteen dollars and fifty cents per ream for paper which can be duplicated to-day in the city of St. Louis at seven and eight dollars, and that the charges for envelopes, tor pens, for penholders, for ink, for mucilage, for everything necessary to gentlemen as members of this Convention, are certainly not less than fifty per cent. in advance of what they could be purchased for at the wholesale or retail stores of this town. In my own account I am charged ten dollars for a pair of scissors that I ordered to be sent, until the termination of our work, to my room. I have been told, sir, by members of the Convention, who are merchants, that they could duplicate that article sent to me for two dollars, or two dollars and twenty-five cents, and yet I am charged ten dollars for it. It is the same, all the way through, with other articles. And, therefbre,whatever is done in regard to an expose of this matter, I shall heartily vote for. The PRESIDENT. The Chair ought to state to the Convention that questions TU-ESDAY, CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION 1788 of fact, raised by the report of the committee, are not proper subject-matter of discussion. The only recommendations of the committee are that two employees be paid certain sums. The question is upon concurring with the recommendations of the committee. The subjectmatter of the re'port is not before the Convention, for discussion or otherwise. Mr. McCOY. Mr. President: Whatever remarks I may make, go only to the reports I see, sir, that the report of the committee has placed to the committee of which I was chairman, a janitor for a certain length of time-I do not recollect the time, but the amount charged for his service is $100 or $102. I will say, sir, in reference to that, that janitor was also janitor of the Committee on Canal ,and Canal I.,ands, of which the gentleman from Kane [!gr. Wheaton] was chairman. I suppose, in consequence of having certified to his time, his time and cost is charged entirely to my committee. But, sir, I have intended to fortify myself with reference to this matter a little, and in order to do so, I have taken the precaution to take the receipt of the Secretary of State for each of the it,-,ms furnished. I find, sir, that so far as the room of the Committee on Miscellaneous Corpora-, tions is concerned, all the items furnished that committee during the time I acted chairman, pro tem., as certified,'by the Secretary of State, were returned to the Seeretary of State, for which I hold his receipt-except one blue and red pencil, and a half quire of legal _cap. I find in that receipt that paper folders are char d at c ablv 'ge a,dollar ea h. worth prob thirty cent& We all know wbat these little paper-folders are, a little; piece of ivory about four or five inches long, and three quarters of an inch in breadth. There were four-charged to that room at four dollars: paperweights, whi6h would cost fifteen cents each, are charged a half a doilar each. Now, I do not know but t4gse are Springfield char es-fair pricesfr this 9 city-but I do not think they'are the charges throughout the State generally. I find from the recei'pt of the Secret ry of State, which I now, -hold, that all articles and stationery received by the Committee on State, County and M-an.icipal Indebtedness of which I had the honor Mr. ROSS. Mr. President: I do not know of anything more practical than to bring the frauds efore the people, that they may tura out and scourge the money changc-ra, and cleanse the Augean stables. If this report be true, these public offi cers should be Beached and turned out of offic,, d the Gfovernor should convene th Le,,c,-isla-ture to do it. I trust, sir, the subject -wi'L'L be thoroughly ventilated, r,i2d the a-no-rle will be,brought to look -f ac-L'.7. Ph'i,!SIDENT. The Chair will proposition to print. BRO14WELL. Mr. President: I vyould inqlaire if the gentleman intended to r,-fiect urc —i the members of this Con ver'c,ion by his remarks? Mr. President: I am not op-r-c.1-IF,d to the proposition made by the gets', -: —an from Fulto-n [Mr. Ross], and if he supposed so, he misunderstood me. I think the Convention is somewhat indebted to me for the valuable services of the committee. It was at my suggestion the committee was raised, and it was my recommendation, I believe, that my friend from DeWitt [Mr. Moore] was placed at the head of it. ["A good suggestion."] Mr. HAY. The suggestion I was about to make was, that in addition to the motion to print, the attention of the Governor should be especially called to this -report, and he be directed to lay this sub - ,ject before the Legislature for its investigation. I think the attention of the C —over-nor should be called to it. Mr. ROSS, Mr. President: Inasmuch as the. gentleman from Sangamon [Mr. IEIa.y] says he has been instrumental in insuguratin-a this investigation, I will concur Wi-th his suggestion. Mr. MOORE. Mr President: I would lil-e to make one oi two explanations. E;ome of these janitors have attended to' two or three rooms, but they are charged to th,-3 committee whose chairman certifies to such labor. While there was but one chairman who certified to such service, tb.-, same janitor in many instances performed services for other committees, and it would have been but au'act of justice that the amount paid to such janitor should have been distributed equally to the different committees. But as it would .not change the final footing of the ex en of this Convention and involved MA 10 80 EAE X RGEIG.18 When the report of the Committee on Revisoin and Adjustment was made yesterday, the question was raised in Convention, but there was very little time to consider it. When the members refused to make the change, the committee considered it complimentary to themselves, and were very thankful for that mark of confidence. But a portion of the committee have examined the two sections, and have come to the conclusion that there is a repetition. I will read the sections. They are as follows: SEC. 20. The General Assembly shall never pay or assume, on behalf of this State the debts of any county, town or township. or of any corporation whatever. SEC. 33. The State shall never pay, assume or become responsible for the debts or liabilities of, or in any manner give, loan or extend its credit to, or in aid of any public or other corporation, association or. individual. The Covention will see that this last sectio(n includes all there is in section twenty, and a little more, and it is desired by the committee that the Convention shall substitute section thirty-three for section twenty, in the legislative article, and I make that motion. ["Leave!" "Leave!"] The PRESIDENT. The proposition is entertained by general consent. The question is up(,n the motion of the chairman of the Committee on Revision and Adjustment, that that committee, -as an enrolling committee, be directed to strike out section twenty of the legisla. tive article,, and insert section thirtythree in place thereof. Mr. HAINES, of Cook. I would like to know what harm there can possibly be in retaining both these sections. Mr. CODY. Mr. President: I will state, for the information of the gentleman, that perhaps there would be no harm, except that it would be entirely useless, and the Committee on Revision would be very much pleased not to be found guilty of repeating the same subject in the same article. Section thirtythree came from another committee, and has been inserted in the legislative articie, because thought to belong there, but on conference this morning, we find this section contains all that is contained in s e ction twenty, and more. Mr. HAINES, of Cook. I suppose the two sections referred to, are intended to prevent the State from assuming the debts of these public corporations, and as it is a very necessary injunction or restrietion, I have yet to learn that that which is valuable may not be oft-repeated to impress it on the memory of the party who is to act upon it. I would like to see it four times repeated in our Constitution, instead of twice. The motion of Mr. Cody was agreed to. MASTERS IN CHANCERY-AGAIN. Mr. SNYDER. I was going on to say that we elect the highest judicial officerthe judge of the supreme court-we elect the circuit judges, we elect all our judicial officers. The people are indisputably competent to do so, and why is it that so inferior a law officer as the mastei in cehancery should not be elected by the people? What qualification is required of him that the people are not competent to judge of? If the gentleman will name one, I will give up my argument right here, or if any other gentleman does so, I will give it up. Some gentlemen bred to the law, seem to have a worshipful regard for a circuit tent for gentlemen to move any proposition upon the report. Mr. PARKS. I am no t prepar ed to vote upon the- disposition of this report until I ask the chairman of the committee a question. The PRESIDENT. The gentleman is entitled to direct an inquiry to the chairman of the committee. M r. PARKS. What was the amount of stamps and other articles under the name of "stationery," that the Convention authorized each member to di-aw from the Secretary of State? My recollection is that it was twenty-five dollars for stamps, and twenty-five dollars for other articles, making fifty dollars. I wish to ask the chairman whether that is correct? Mr. MOORE. I will say to the gentleman that I can only state from memory. Those resolutions were not referred to this committee. I understood it to have been twentyfive dollars for postage and twenty dollars for other articles t, each member, but it may be that the last resolution was not passed. I am quite certain it was introduced. MIr. TINCHER. Mr. President: I was go'rg to state in relation to the matter that I do not think there was any specific amount of stationery allowed to ektch member. I think the resolution was to order the Secretary to take a receipt of each member for the amount received by him. Mr. CROSS. Mr. President: My recollection of the order of the Convention is that each member was allowed to draw twenty dollars worth. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon concurrence in the recommendation of the committee. The motion to concur in the recommendation of the committee was agreed to, avd two hundred copies ordered printed. ELECTION OF MASTERS IN CIANCERY. Mr. WALL; Mr. President: I desire t~o offer the following resolution. The Secretary read the resolution, offered by Mr. Wall, as follows: -Resolved, That the Committee on Revision and Adjustment be directed to strike out of the article on counties so much thereof as provides for the election of masters in chancery. Mr. WALL. Mr. President: The pl tce of master in chancery is one that it seems to mne ought to be filled by the appoiutment of circuit judge. I have never beer satisfied with the action of the. Convention in this matter. I believe that there is a large number of delegates who are dissatisfied with it also, and I have offered this resolution in order that if a sufficient number have come to the same conclusion, the change may be made. Mr SNYDER. Mr. President: I should like to hear one single reason urged why a master in chancery should ncat bne elected by the people. Are there ally peculiar conditions or relations about that m~an that there are not about any other officer of all those whom the people elect? The people select the supreme judge, who is the highest law officer known to us. RIEVISION AND ADJUSTMEN!;T. Mr. CODY. Mr. President: I desire to ask the unanimous consent of the Convention to the substitution of section thirty-three, in the legislative article, for section twenty.. 448 judge. They seem to think when they come within the presence of a circuit ju dge they come within the presence of something supernatural and supes-excel. lent. I say, sir, that a circuit judge is no better than anybody else, and above all things, the circuit judge i, not entitled to take the appointment of the only county officers not now elected by the people, out of their hands, and Dame them himself. Show me a reason why this officer, who has the granting of injunctions, the issuing of 7iabea8 corpus, the granting of writs of ne exeat and who in our county and most counties handles the lands of all intestate estates, where partition cannot be made-an office which in our county is worth eight thousand dollars-should not be responsible to the people, but should remain responsible to a circuit judge. I propose no change in the office, in its duration or fees. All I propose is that the office shall be taken out of the hands of the circuit judge, and given to the people where it b)elongs, and where all the officers in this democratic country of ours should belong. ~ Mr. WALL. I cannot agree with the views of the gentleman from St. Clair [Mr. Snyder]. Mr, ROSS. I rise to a question of or. der. No gentleman can speak twice on the same subject. The PRESIDENT. The gentleman from Perry [Mr. Wall] simply introduced his proposition, and did not make a speech on it. Mr. WALL. The office of master in chancerv is a peculiar one. A master in chancery sustains especial relations to the circuit judge. In almost every chancery proceeding, the duty of taking the proofs, and reporting to the court a recommenda. tion, as to whether or not the decree asked for should be granted, is referred to the master. In many cases the proceedings are ex-parte. In many cases the interests of minors are involved and the chancellor must depend on his master for fairness and impartiality in the decree to be recommended. Much must be entrusted, not only to the judgment, but to the integrity of the master, and the circuit judge certainly ought to have the power of naming the man with whom he must entrust so much. It is an office of peculiar trust and confidence. It is an offie where the entries of the court, the judgments of the court depend so much upon his reports, that unless the judge can havve the most implicit confidence in the judgment. of his master, he must constantly revise not only the decisions, but every syllable of evidence on which his report is based. The court certainly ought to have the power to appoint or remove so confidential an officer. Mr. TURNER. Mr. President: I merely wish to give a reason or two why I think masters in chancery should notbe made elective officers.s It often occurs when we get through our common law docket} that we desire to have a number of caBse in chancery tried, in which all the testimony is not taken. It is not un1frequen~1y the case that the court is called upon to appoint one or two special masters to take proof in consequence of the master being engaged upon other cases. It is not unfrequently the case that lands have to be sold in different counties, when it is not convenient to have the master goout of his cougy to MAY 10) 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1789 17O. -. _- Io N..- _. _ _ _.' - -- _ _' " - - I -- ----- ...l the, and aspecial aster i appoin. Benjtmin, HS rst h b c s e Benjamin, Hayes, Sutherland, Browning, McCoy, I Tincher, Cameron, McDowell, Tubbs, Cary, Medill, Turner Church, Merriam, Underwood, Dement, Moore, Wait, Eldredge, Parks, Wall, Ellis, Perley, Washburn, Gamble, Peirce, Wells Goodhue, Pillsbury, Wheaton,-40. Haines of Cook ABSErI-. OR NOT VOTING. Allen of Alex., Cody, Parker, Allen of Crwifd,Coolbaugh, Poage, Archer, English. Rice, Bowman, Goodell, Robinson, Brown, Haines of Lake,Scholfield, Bryan, Hanna, Skinner, Buxton, King, Mr. President-21. So the motion of Mr. Cummings to lay the resolution offered by Mr. Wall on the table was not agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is on the adoption of the resolution. A division was ordered. The Convention divided, when, there being thirty six in the affirmative, and twenty-two in the negative, the resolution of instruction offered by Mr. Wall was agreed to. TRANSLATION AND PRINTING OF ADDRESS -DISTRIBUTION OF DEBATES. Mr. CAMERON. Mr. President: I am instructed by the Committee on Printin g to report the resolutions which Iwill read: - Resolved, That the Secretary of State be directed to have prepared forthwith a correct and careful translation of the Address and Constitution into the German and Scandinavian languages, at a cost not to exceed $3 per page. Resolved, That the Secr.-tary of State be directed to have printed forthwith, in pam phlet form, twenty-five thousand copies ofthe Constitution and Address, in English, Aix thousand copies of the same in German, and two thousand copies in Scandinavian, the paper for the same to be furnished by the State, and the documents to be forwarded by express, in equal numbers, at the public expense, to the members of the Convention. Resolved, That the Secretary of State be instructed to furnish to each weekly newspaper in the State, at the earliest practicable moment, two printed copies of the revised Constitution and Address for publication, in accordance with resolutions previously passed by this Convention. Resolved, That the Secretary of State be directed to forward, at public expense, by express, to each member of this Convention, thirty copies of the Convention Globe, when bound, and twenty copies of the journal tf proceedings. I move the adoption of the resolutions. Mr. WALL. Mr. President: I desire to move an amendment to the resolution of the gentleman from Cook [Mr. Camreron], striking out the word "six" and ins erting "twenty," so that there may be twenty thousand copies printed in the German language —and I will state my reasons. We have provided for priningthe Constitution in every weekly paper in the State that will do so for thirty dollars. We have in Illinois a very large voting German population. In the district I have the honor in part to represent, there is a very large number of German voters. In one of those couLties, in which my colleague [Mr. Wilson] resides, I suppose the Germans are three-fourths of the voters, and I believe there is not a single German newspaper in that county. I sup pose, in proportion to the Ge rman voters in the State, there are very few German newspapers. Outside of one in Springfield, two in Peoria, and two or three in Chicago, i do not know of any. I hope, sell t hem, and a sp e cial master is appointed to do it. It is an office having peculiar duties. The master in chancery is an aid to the circuit judg e, and should be under his control. I hope we will let well enough alone. Mr. WHEATON. Mr. President: Every officer of a chancery court should be under the con trol of the chanellohr, for we never can have a chancery business done well unless the master is subject to the control of the chancellor. It is unheard of in chancery practice, that the office of master, who exercises a quasi judicial power under the chancellor should be elec-ted by the people. When there are special services to be performed and testimony specially to be taken, there would be no power in the chancellor to appoint special masters-and the master is taken out from under the control of the chancellor entirely. Mr. SNYDER. Mr. President: I would ask the gentleman if a judge can remove a master before his office expires? Mr. WHEATON. At any time, Mr. President, as I understand, when he does not properly perform the duties of his office. Mr. SNYDER. No, sir; he cannot do it. Mr. WHEATON. Again, we have entered into some special legislation with regard to Cook county, to prevent the corruption of justices of the peace in that county, to the effect that they shall be appointed by the Governor. Now, then, these men, failing of election as justices of the peace, can be elected masters in chancery to an innumerable extent, and all the advantage of the other regulation will be lost, by allowing the masters in chancery to be elected and to act independent of the courts in that county. Let every master in chancery continue entirely independent of the chancery courts, and I believe it will be an injudicious inn(:vation, which will be produc tive of injury to the courts and to the people. LHere the hammer fell.] Mr. CUMMINGS. Mr. President: I Inove to lay the resolution on the table. Air. HAYES. Mr. President: I call for the yeas and nays. T~he PRES3IDENT. The question is upon the motion of the gentleman from Fulton [Mr. Cummin~gs] to lay the resolu tion of instructions on the table. The yeas and nays were ordered. The Secretary proceeded to call the roll. Mr. PARKS (wvhen his name was call ed) said: Mr. President: I believe it would be better for the courts, the bar and the people to let the judge continue to appoint the master in chancery, as T,hna~eresult Twhsaifws.anthe anoned' —yeas sir, that the number of copies in German will be very much increased. Mr. HAYES Mr. Preside nt: Before the vote is taken on the amendment of. fered by the gentlerman from Perry [o4r. W Wall], I desire to suggest an arnet,udment, which is acceptable to the chairman of the committee, to insert after the word "forward," where it occurs, the words "by express." Mr. CAMERON. Mr. President: I ask that the vote be taken separately on each resolution. The PRESIDENT. The question is on the amendment of the gentleman from Perry [Mr. Wall], to strike out "six" and insert "twenty." The amendment was not agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the adoption of the first resolution. The Secretary read the resolution, as follows: Resolved, That the Secretary of State be directed to have prepared, forthwith, a cor rect and carelul translation of the address and Constitution, into the German and Scandina. vian languages,,it a cost not to exceed three dollars per page. The resolution was agreedI to. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the second resolution. The Secretary read the resolution, as follows: Resolved, That the Secretary of State be di rected to have printed, forthwith, in pam phlet form, 25,000 copies of the Constitution and address in English, 6.000 copies of the same in German and 2,000 in Scandinavian the paper for the same to be furnished by the State, and the documents to be torwarded by express in equal numbers, at the public ex pense, to the members of this Convention. The resolution was agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the third resolution. The Secretary read the resolution, as follows: -Resolved, That the Secretary of State be in structed to furnish to each weekly newspaper in the State, at the, earliest practicable mo ment, two printed copies of the revised Con stitution and address, for publication, in ac cordance with resolutions previously passed by this Convention. The resolution was agreed to. The PRESIDENt. The question is upon the fourth resolution. The Secretary read the resolution, as follows: Resolved, That the Secretary of State be di rected to lbrward, at public expense, by exr press, to each member of this Convention, thirty copies of the Convert~ion Globe when bound, anid twenty copies of the Journal of Proceedings. Mr. HAINES, of Cook. Mr. President: I move to substitute the word "ordered" in place of "authorized." Mr. M,EDILk. I move the word "au thorized" read "directed." Mr. CAMERON. I accept the amlend ment. The fourth resolution, as amended, was agreed to. INVESTIGATION OF bEPENSES OF CONVENe TION. Mr. HAY offered the following resolu. tion, which was read by the Secretary and agreed to: Resolved, That the report of the Committee on Accounts and Expenditures of this Convention, this day made to this Convention, be referred, when printed, to the Governor of this State, with the request that he canse the same to be laid before the next session of the Legislature for their action in the premises, with such reommendations as he deems proper thereon. TTESDA-Y, 1790 CONSTITTJTIONAL COX-VFNTION TEAS. Fuller, HaDkins, Hildrup, Neece, Ross, Sharp, Bnyder, Truesdale, Vandeventer, Wa —ner. Wedlin'g, Whiting, Wilson, Wrighf-22, Abbott, Anderson, Bronawell, Cral,g, Cross, Cummings, Forman, Fox, NA.YS. Anthony, Illart, Sedgwick, Atkins, Harwood, She-rrill, Bayne, Ray, f3priuger, MAY 10, 1870. DEBATES AiD PROCk'EDING 1791 tion shall be held for judges of the supreme court in the second, third, sixth and seventhls judicial districts designated in this Constitu tioli, at which election, every person entitled to vote according to the terms of this Consti tution, shall be allowed to vote, and the elec tion shall be otherwise conducted, returns made and certificates issued in accordance with the laws now existing for the election of supreme judges. If, upon canvassing the votes for and against the adoption of this Constitution, it shall appear that there has been polled a greater nDumber of votes against than for it, then no certificates of election shall be issued for any of said judges. SEC. 8. On the day this Constitution is sub mitted to the people for ratification, there shall be elected three judges of the circuit court in the county of Cook, as provided for in the article of this Constitution relating to the judicary; at which election every person entitled to vote according to the terms of this Constitution, shall be allowed to vote, and the election shall be otherwise conducted. re turns made and certificates issued in accord ance with laws now existing for the election of circuit judges: Provided, That at said elec tion no elector shall vote for more than two candidates for circuit judge. SEc. 9. This Constitution shall be submit ted to the people of the State of Illinois, for adoption or rejection, at au election to be held on the first Saturday in July, A. D). 1870, and there shall be submnitted at the same time, for adoption or rejection, The article in relation to railroads; The article in relation to warehouses; The article in relation to counties; The article in relation to; And also the section in relation to the Illi nois Central railroad tax; fThe section in relation to the removal of county seats; The section in relation to minority repre sentation; and The section in relation to municipal sub scriptions to railroads or private corpora tions. Every person entitled to vote under the provision of this Constitution, as defined in the article in relation to "suffrage," shall, on said first Saturday of July, A. D. 1870, be entitled to vote for the adoption or rejection of this Constitution, and for or against the articles and sections aforesaid, separately sub mitted; and the said qualified electors shall vote at the usual places of voting, unless othwise provided; and the said elections shall be conducted according to the laws now in lforee regulating elections: Provided, htowevei, that the polls shall be kept open for the reception of ballots until sunset of said day of election. SEc. 10. The Secretary of State shall, at least twenty days before said election, cause , to be delivered to the several county clerks, blank poll-books, tally-lists, and forms of returns, and twice the number of property prepared printed ballots for the said election that there a,e voters in such counties, the expense whereofshall be audited and paid as other public printing ordered by the Secretary of State, is, by law, required to be audited and paid; and the several county clerks shall, at least five days before said election, cause to be distributed to the board of election, in each election district, in their respective counties, said blank poll-books, tally-lists, and forms of return, and tickets. SEC. 11. At the said election the ballot shall be in the following form: but the parts of said tickets that are canceled shall be counted and retui-lied as against such articles and sections as are thus separately submnitted. SEC. 12. The returns of the whole vote c a st, and o f the votes ol r the adoption or re jection of this Constitution, and for or against the articles and sections respectively submit ted, shall be made by the several county clerks, as is now provided by law, to the Sec retary of State, within twenty days after the election; and the returns of the said votes shadl, within five days thereafter, be examined and canvassed by the Auditor, Treasurer and Secretary of State or any two of them, in the presence of the Governor, and proclamation ihall be made by the Governor, forthwith, of the result of the canvass. SF.c. 13. If it shall appear that a majority of all the votes polled are for this ConstiLu tion, it shall be the supreme law of the State of Illinois on and after Monday, the 8th day of August, A. D. 1870; but if it shall appear that a majority of the votes were not cast for said Constitution, it shall be Dull aiid void. If it shall further appear that a majority of the votes polled shall have been given 1or either ot the articles and sections separately submit led, then such articles and sections receiving said majority of votes, shall form and consti tute a part of the Constitution, and shall be substituted for those articles and sections of the Constitution with which they conflict, except, the section relating to minority rep,-esentation, which shall not be declared adopted, unless this Constitution shall be adopted, and those articles and sections which shall not have received a majority of the votes cast, shall be null and void. SEC. 14. Immediately after the adoption of this Constitution, the Governor and Sec retary of S4tate shall proceed to ascertain and fix the apportionment of the State for me m berst of the first house of representatives uti der this Constitution. The apportionment shall be based upon the federal census of the year A. D. 1870 of the State of Illinois, and shall be made strictly in accordance with the rules and principles announced in the article on the legislative department of this Consti tution: Provided, that in case the federal census aforesaid cannot be ascertained prior to Friday, the 23d of Sept(,mber, A. D. 1870, then the said apportionment shall be b;,sed on the State census of the year, A. D. 1865, in accordance with the rules and principles aforesaid. The Governor shall, on or before Wednesday, thie 28th of September, A. D. 1870, miiake official announcemjlient of the said apportionment. under the great seal of the State*; and - copies the-e,Jf, duly certi fied, shall be forthwith transmitted by the Secreti-ry of State, so each county clerK, for distribution. SEc. 15. The districts shall be regularly numbered by the Secretary of State, comn mencing with Alexander county as No. 1, and proceeding thence northwardly through the State, and terminating with the county of Cook; but no county shall be number-d as more than onQ district except the county of Cook, which shall constitute three districts, each embracing the territory contained in} the now existintg representative districts of said county. Anld on the Tuesday after the first Mon>day in Novemlber, A.DV. 1870, the members of the first house of representatives under this Constitution shall tie elected according to the apportionment fixed and an. nunslcecd as aforesaid, and shall hold their officees lor two years, and until their successors shall be elected and qualifie d. SEa. 16. The senate, ataits first session under this Constitution, shall consist o~f fiftyy members to be chosen as follows: At the general electio~n held on the first Tuesday at — ter the filrst Monday of Nov em ber, A. D. i870, two senators shall be elected in distr icts where the terms of senators expire on the first Monday of January, A. D, 187I, or where there shall be a vacancy, and in the remaining districts one bena~tor shall be elected. Senators so elected shall hold their office two years. SEC. 17. The General Assembly, at its first session held after the adoptio)n of this CXonstitution, shall proceed to apportion the State for members of the senate and house of regret sentatives, in accordance with the proJviso ions of the article on the legislative depart~ ment. X S3Ee. 18. Whenl if this Constitution sh~11 be ratified by the people, the Governor ~hall NEW CONSTITUTION TICKET. mFor the new Constitution, and for all the articles and sections which are not canceled with ink or pencil on the following ticket; and against the new Constitution, and such articles and sections as are so canceled thereon, viz: For the new Constitution. For article entitled railroads. For article entitled warehouses. For article entitled counties. For Illinois Central Railroad tax. For minority representation. For three-fifths vote to remove county seats. For prohibiting municipal subscriptions to railroads or private corporations. The parts of said tickets which are not canceled by the electors shall be counted and returned by the judges of elections as cast for this Constitution, and for the articles and sections separately submitted, as aforesaid; AfA-r 10, 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDING& 1791 SCHEDULE. Mr. MEDILL. Wli. President: If it is in order, I would move that the Coiiveution resolve itself into Conimittee of the Wtiole, to eodsider the report of the Comatittee on Schedule. PRINTING CONSTITUTION IN GERMAN. Mr. WELLS. Mr. PresideDt: May I make an inquiry? Some of the gentle men are not aware of the form'of that first resolution adopted in relation to printed copies in German. How many were ordered? The PRESIDENT. Six thousand. Mr. WELLS. I move to reconsider that for the purpose of making it fifteen thou f3a,nd. The PRESIDENT. The motion to re consider will be entered upon the jour nal, but cannot be disposed of until the peiadidg question is disposed of,.mely, the motion to go into Committee of the Whote on the report of the Committee on Schedule The motion was agreed to. SCIIEDULE, AGAIN. So the Convention, as in Committee of the Whole (Mr. Anderson in the chair), proceeded to consider the report of the Committee on Schedule. [The report is as follows:] The standing committee, to whom was referred the, preparation of the schedule, beg leave to report the following schedule for the consideration of the Convention. JOIEEN SCHOLRIELD, JOSEPH MFDILL, 0. C. 6KINNER, ROBERT T. CROSS, JAMF,S P. ROBINSON, JONA.THAN MERRIAM, W. C. COOIBKUGH, R. M. BENJAMIN, GRoia,Gn W. WALL, Committee. SCHEDULE. That no inconvenience may arise from the alterations and ameiidinen ts made in the ConE,titation of this State, and to carry the same into complete effect, it is hereby ordained and declared SE(;TION 1. That all laws in force at the adop Lion of this Constitution, not inconsistent therewith, and all rights, actions, prosecutions, claims and contracts of this State, in-, dividuals or bodies corporate, shal'I continue to be as valid as if this Constitution had not been adopted. SEC. 2. That all fines, penalties and forfeilures, due and owing to the State of IJlinois under the present Oonstitution and laws, r,ball inure to the use of the people of the State of Illinois udd-er this COU.StitULiOn. SEC. 3. Recognizances, bonds, obligations, and all other instruments entered into or executed before the adoption of this Constitutiou, to the people of Llie, State ot'lilinois, to any State or county officer or public body, all remain bindii2 and valid and ri hts and 1792 COSTIT UITIOAL COV1TION TUESDAY, forthwith, after having ascertained the fact, issue writs of election to the sheriffs of the several counties of this State, or in case of vacancies, to the coroners, for the election of all the officers, the time of whose elec tion is f ixed by this Constitution or scoledule, and it sh all b e te duty of said sh eriffs or coroners to g ive s uch notice of the time and place of said elec tion as is now prescribed by law. SEC. 19. All lawsto of the State of Illinois and all official writings, and the executive, legisl ativ e and judicial proceedings shall be conducted, preserved and published in no other than the English language. SEC. 20. Nothing in this Constitution shall prevent the General Assembly from passing such laws in relation to the apprenticeship of minors, dulling their minority, as may be necessary and proper. SEC. 21. The General Assembly shall pass all laws necessary to carry into effect the provisions of this Constitution. SEC. 22. The circuit clerks of the different counties having a population over sixty thousand, shall continue to be the recorders (ex officio) for their respective counties, under this Constitution, until otherwise provided by law. SEC. 23. The judges of all courts of record in Cook county shall receive the compensation now provided by law until the adjournment of the first session of the General Assembly after the adoption of this Constitution. SEC. 24. All lands which have been granted as a "common" to the inhahitants of any town, hamlet, village or corporation, by any person, body politic or corporate, or by any government having power to make such grant, shall forever remain common to the inhabitants of such town, hamlet, village or corporation; but the said commons, or any of them, or any part thereof, may be divided, ]eased or granted, in such manner as may hereafter be provided by law, on petition of a majority of the qualified voters interested in such commons, or any of them. This section is hereby adopted as a part of the Constitution of this State, without being submitted to be voted upon by the people. Sec. 25. That the county of Lake shall remain unattached to any judicial circuit until action by the General Assembly. The Governor shall appoint some suitable person, who shall be an elector of said county, as judge of the circuit court thereof for the time being, who sllall possess all the powers of a judge of the circuit court. SEC. 26. No contract, obligation or liability whatever of the Illinois Central Railroad company to pay any money into the State treasury, nor any lien of the State upon or right to tax property of said company, in accordance with the provisions of the charter of said company, approved February 10, 1851, shall ever be released, suspended, modified, altered, remitted, or in any way or manner diminished or impaired, by legislative or other authority; and all moneys derived from said company, after the payment of the State deb~t, shall be appropriated and set apart for the payment of the ordinary expenses of the State government, and for lno other purposes whatever. This section shall be submitted separately to the electors of this State; and if it shall appear that a majority of the votes cast are for said section, then it shall be a part of this Constitution- but if it shall otherwise appear, then this section shall be null and void. SEC. 27. No county, city, town, township, or other municipality, shall ever become sub scriber to the Capital stock of any railroad or private corporation, or make donation to, or loan its credit in aid of, such corporation: Pro~nded, however, that the adoption of this article shall not be construed as affecting the right of any such municipality to make such -su'bscriptions where the same have been- au thori7,ed, under existing laws, by a vote of the people of such municipalities, prior to such adoption. This section shall be submitted separately to the electors of this Stat*, and if it shall appear that a majority of the votes cast are for prohibiting such subscriptions~ to railroads and private corporations, then said section shall be a part of the Constitution of this Statie; but if it shall otherwise appear, then this section shall be null and void. FEE. 28. The house of representatives shall consist of three times the numl~er of the merel bers of the senate, and the term of office shall be two years. Three representatives shall be elected in each senatorial district, at the general election in the year A. D. 1872, aind every two years thereafter. In all elections of representatives aforesaid, each qualified voter may cast as many votes for one candidate as there are representatives to be elected, or may distribute the same, or equal parts tbereof, among the candidates, as he shall see fit; and the candidates highest in votes shall be declared elected This section shall be submitted separately to the electors of this State, and if it shall appear that a majority of the votes cast are for "minority representation," as provided for in said section, then said section shall be a part of this Constitution, and shall be substituted for sections seven and eight of the article on the legislative department; but if it shall otherwise appear, then this section shall be null and void. SEc, 29. At the time the amendments to the Constitution, prepared by this Convention, are submitted to a vote of the electors of the State, the following proposition shall be submitted to be voted upon as a separate propostion: "For a three-fifths vote to remove a county seat." t "Against a three-fifths vote to remove a county seat." If a majority of the votes cast at such election shall be for a three-fifths vote to remove a county seat, then the words "a majority," shall be stricken out of section four of the article on counties, and the words "three fifths" shall be inserted in lieu thereof, and the following words shall be added to said section, to wit: "But when an attempt is made to remove a county seat to a point nearer to the center of the county, then a majority vote only shall be necessary." And in ease this Constitution shall be rejected by the electors at said election, then said section four shall become a part of the Constitution of 1848, in place of section five, article seven, o'n counties; but if the forgoing proposition shall not receive a majority of the votes as aforesaid, then the same shall have no effect whatever. SEc. 30. The legislation in regard to parks in Chicago may be amended by special law. SEc. 31. When this Constitution shall be adopted and take effect as the supreme law of the State of Illinois, the two-nill tax provi ded to be annually assessed and collected upon each one dollar's worth of taxable prop erty in addition to all other taxes, as set fo~rth in article fifteen of the, now existing Constitution shall cease to be assessed or col lected, and said article shall thereafter be null and void. SEc. 32. The provisions of this Constitu tion required to be executed prior to the adoption or rejection thereof, shall take effect and be in force immediately. Done in Convention at the capitol, in the city of Springfield, on the day of May, in the year of our Lord one thousand eight deb, sallbe pprprate an se aprt orhundred and seventy, and of the indepenthe payment of the ordinr xenssothdece of the United States of America themiseaaeyteatceireaint Stat goernmnt,andfor o oher urpsesninety-fourth. wrhue,wihi osdrdads whatever. ~~~~~~~In witness whereof we have hereunto sub- ptdaddbtdatce Thissecionshal besubitte searaelyscribed our names. Terao o rpsn osbi h to heeletos f tisStte;an i itshll Mr. MEDILL. Mr. Chairman: In the atcei eaint onissprtl ~' ai setin, he itshll e pat f tisabsence of the chairman of this commit wsta h ril rvdsfrtepy Contittio; ut f i sallothrwse pper,tee, it devolves upon me to act as chair-metoconyofcr,atrtiCosi thenthi setio shll b nul ad vid. man in the consideration of the report. I tto osit fet yfxdslre S~c.27.No ouny, ity,tow. twnsip,wish briefly to run over the report beforespcfeinteCnttto,tscutn or the mnicpaity sallevr bcoe sb-we commence acting on it by sections. ofmn fttks"addpiigmn priatecoportio, r mke ontio toorBy way of explanation, I will say firstofiilofrchavsso fesno loa it crditin idof,suc eoportion:that sections one, two and three are copied gtee n noe.sw fta Proide, hweer,tha th aopton f tisfrom the schedule of the Constitution of atceo onisb mrcdi h artcleshal ot e cnsrue asafectng he1848.boyothCosiuinitmyhvth rigt o an suh mnicpalty o mke uch The committee considered those sections efc faryn gis h dpino thoize, ude exstig aws bya oteof heto require no modiflication. Section fourthCosiuinavracieadifu peole f schmunciplites pror o schwas inserted for the purpose of providing eta ls fmn h ilasi h adoption. ~~~~~~for a contingency in the election of theCosiuinuofasgrud,algn Thi setin sal besubited epratlyboard of county commissioners provided ohrraosta h reoe o hi appear that a maj ~ ~~orit ftevtscs r by this section.hotlt. B sumtigta aril forproibiingsuc suscntios t ralrods Section five is a very general proposi-seaaeytemutfgtteatceo andpriatecororaion, ten aidseciontion, and provides that all existing co-urts ismrt,btcno ih h osiu shal b a artof he onsituionof hiswhich are not in this Constitution apeei:.-toupnspitcladfl.anfruu Stae; utif t hal oheris apea, teeically enumerated, sh'tll continue in ex- ln rud;wietepol ilhv Szc 28 Th hose f rpreenttivs sallistence and (xercise their jurisdiction sachnefra sqaevtontaquconistofthre ime te nm~r o te mm-provided by law. A great many specialtinosaaisvfesa4prusts s I I f s t r8 I I f e I 0 f i re r r r CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION TUESDAY) 1792 sections are saved by making this one general. Secti,)n six provides that every person appointed to cffice sball continue in the exercise of the duties thereof in accordance with the appointment unless it is otherwi,e provided. That section will save a dozen sections of special reference. Section seven refers to the election of supreme judges in four election -districts, provides for the manner of their election, the return -of certificates, etc. Section eight provides for the election of three circuit judges for the circuit in Cook county, as provided f(-ir in the afticle relating to the Judir;iary. The coinmittee reported thi-i second section so as to couform to the provisions of the Judiciary article, although there was some difference of opinion in the c,)mmittee, and, as I learn, among the members of the Convention as to the expedient of electi-.,ig any of those judges on that day. I am free to say that, for my own part, I would much prefer that all of them should be elected at the November election, and not have this matter mixed up with the election on the new Constitution. But I represent but one vote, and that not a factious one, on this section; and when we come to those sections we can consider them at our leisure. Section nine provides for the articles and sections that are to be submitted. The committee considered the second day of Jul, being Saturda, the latest day at y y which this Constitution ought to be submi-tted. We named Saturday for the reason that on that day of the week more people can spare an hour to go to the polls than on any other day, during that somewh'at bu,y period of the year. At that time the harvest will have been commenced in a portion of the State, and and in the other portion the people will be preparing for it; but on Saturday afternoon, every farmer, every mechgiaic and every laborer can find an hour to walk or ride to the polls, and deposit his vote on the new Constitution. We believe that by taking that afternoon we will secure a vastly greater vote on the Constitution than if we select any other day in the week. But this is a matter for the Convention to consider. We propose to submit, with the Con stitution, certain articles separately, as v M A 10 18 0 D E A E N R C E I G.1 9 this Constitution, and for the articles and sections separately submitted, as aforesaid; but the parts of said tickets that are cancel ed shall be counted and returned as against same or such articles and sections as are thus separately submitted. The reason why the committee propose this form of ticket is this: that it we fol low the old form of 1848, "for the Con stitution, against the Constitution," "for the article, against the article," "for the section, against the section," fourteen different forms of tickets will be necessary to supply the people with the proper voting papers. Now, who is to provide these fourteen different sets of tickets for all the Stat e? There is no party charged with this duty or interested in it. This is not a republican Constitution or a democratic Constitution, in the party sense of the word. Neither party has anything to gain by opposing or advocating it as a party measure. It must stand or fall on its own naked merits, and nobody would be charged with the duty of providing tickets. Consequently, we have made one single ticket, so as to save the printi ng of thirteen other forms, and charged the Secretary of State with the duty of having these tickets printed and distributed. This places before the people one single ticket, which every man can readily understand, and "scratch" any section or article he is opposed to, as voters do at any ordinary election; and in canvassing and counting the ticket, oLly so much of it has not been "scratched," counts for the Constitution-the parts scratche.d off counting against it. The schedule provides that a majority of all the votes cast, shall be required to adopt the Constitution, or any of these separate provisions. If the Convention can conceive of any more simple or more economical plan than the one proposed by the committee, they will be glad to accept a substitute for it. The next section is in regard to the returns of the election. They are to be made by the several election judges and clerks, as now provided by law, within so many days after the election, and to be canvassed within five days thereafter, by the Auditor, Treasurer and Secretary of State, or any two of them, in the presence of the Governor. In this, we have followed the old Constitution of 1848. The next section, thirteen, which I will not read, provides for what shall be done in case the Constitution is adopted. The fourteenth section, which the comimittee drew with a good deal of care, and ewhich I hope the Convention will find acceptable, provides for the apportion. ment of the first house of representatives. t Section fifteen refers to the numbering of districts; and one last clause of it I will explain, so far as it affects the county of Cook. It provides that the county of Cook shall constitute three districts. We have three districts in Cook county now. We know their areas We kno er th e ir population, under the census of 1865, and if the federal census is obtained in time for the new apportionment, the State officers will know what representation to assign to them. After this year, Cookicounty will be apportioned according to the representative article. Unless this provision is adopted, Cook county will be obliged to elect her whole delegation on one general ticket. The sixteenth section refers to the election of senators for the first Legislature. All the other sections, I believe, will ex: plain themselves, and I w ill not consume any more time in referring to them. a I now mov e that we take up the first section, and consider the report, section by section, seriatim. The motion was agreed to. The CHAIRMAN. The Clerk will read the first section. The Clerk read section one, as follows: SECTION 1. That all laws in force at the adoption of this Constitution, not inconsis tent therewith, and all rights, actions, prose cutions, claims and contracts of this State, individuals or bodies corporate, shall contin ue to be as valid as if this Constitutition had not been adopted. The CHAIRMAN. If there be no objection, it will be declared adopted. The Clerk will read the second section. The Clerk read section two, as follows: SEC. 2. That all fines, penalties and forfeittures, due and owing to the State of Illinois, under the present Constitution and laws, shall inure to the use of the people of the State of Illinois under this Constitution. The CHAIRMAN. Section two will be declared adopted. The Clerk will read section three. The Clerk read section three, as fol' lows: SEC. 3. Recognizances, bonds, obligations, and all other instruments entered into or ex ecuted before the adoption of this Constitution, to the people of the State of Illinois, to any State or county officer or public body, shall remain binding and valid, and rights and liabilities upon the same shall continue, and all crimes and misdemeanors shall be tried and punished as though no change had been made in the Constitution of this State. The CHAIRMAN. Section three will be declared adopted. The Clerk will read section four. The Clerk read section four, as fol' lows: SEc. 4. County courts, for the transaction of county business in counties not having adopted township organization, shall continue in existence, and exercise their present jurisdiction until the board of county commissioners provded in this Constitution, is organized in pursuance of an act of the General Assembly. Mr. CODY. Mr.Chairman: It occurs to me that there is an omiissson in the section in reference to county courts. I think that section was taken from the judiciary article, and was intended to cover county courts for the transaction of probate business as well as county business. This only continues county courts for the transaction of county business. Mr. BENJAMIN. Mr. Chairman. The continuance of county courts for the trans action of probate business is provided for by the Constitution it~self. The present county court for the transaction of county business is composed of the county judge and two county commissioners. By the judiciary article, if this C~onstitutionl be adopted, the county judge will no longer be a member of that board, but three commissioners will constitute it. In view of that fact we provide for the continuance of the county court for the transaction of county business, the same as nowv constituted, unltil-the board of three commissioners is organized in pursuance of law. Mr. ClODY. Mr. President: Section twenty-two of the judiciary article was transferred to the Committee on Schedule. It provides: SEC. 22. The judges and clerks of county courts, in office at the adoption of this Constitutions shall hold their offices until the es The article blank means t ha t if there is any other article embodied in the Con stitution which the Convention wishes to detach and submit separately, it can be there inserted. We submit few sections separately those in relation to the Illinois Central Railroad tax, the removal of county seats by a three-fifths vote, in relation to mi nority representation, and in relation to subscriptions to private corporations or railroads. Then it is provided that every person entitled to vote under the provisions of this Constitution, as defined in the arti cle in relation to suffrage, shall have a right to vote on the ratification of the Constitution, and at the usual places of voting. One clause of section nine pro vides that the polls shall be kept open for the reception of ballots until sunset of said day of election. I believe the law says six o'clock, but on the second day of July the sun sets in Illinois at seven and a half o'clock; so that the election being held until sunset, will keep the polls open to seven and a half o'clock; and during that hour and a half, mechanics and la borers, through all cities and towns and villages in the State, can cast tens of thousands of votes. Otherwise they might probably be excluded from going to the polls, and cut out of a chance to .vote on our work. Section ten is one of the most important sections in this schedule. It provides that: SEC. 10. The Secretary of State shall, at least twenty days before said election, cause to be delivered to the several county clerks blank poll-books, tally-lists, and form of return, and twice the number of properly prepared printed ballots for the said election that that there are voters in such counties, the expense whereof shall be audited and paid as other public printing ordered by the Secretary of State is, by law, required to be audited and paid; and the several county clerks shall, at least five days before said election, cause to be distributed to the board of election, in each election district in their respective counties, said blank poll-books, tally-lists, and form of return, and tickets. We have here charged the Secretary of State with the duty of preparing a uni. form system of blanks, aud uniforrm form of tickets for election, and forwardidg those blanks and tickets to proper officers of all the counties, so as to make sure that the people will have the proper form of voting papers. If this is left to the county alone, some counties may comply with the law and some may no:t. It is absolutely necessary there should be certainty, regularity, and uniformity about it, and the committee could think of no better plan than this to secure such end. The next section isdnothler very important one, on which I will make a very brief explanation. The form of submissionl is proposed to be as follows: For the new Constitution, and for all the articles and sections which are not canceledwith ink or pencil, on the following ticket; and against the new Constitution, and such articles and sections as are so canceled thereon, viz: For the new Constitution. For article entitled railroads. For article entitled warehouses, For article entitled counties. For Illinois Central railodd tax:. For minori~ty representation. For three-fifths vote to remove county seats. For prohibiting municipal subscriptions to railroads or private corporations. The parts of said tickets which are not canceled by the electors shall be counted and returned by the judges of Meletions as cast Or 449 I r I t i I -)IAY 10) 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1793 1q9 COSIUINLC-Y~I~TED I think, therefore, that we had better add the other, and let the Committee on Revision and Adjustment make the work , perfect. If section twenty-two is substi tuted for this, there may be a little want L of jurisdiction, but the Committee on Revision and Adjustment would not feel I justified in enlarging its provisions. The question being on the motion of Mr. Cody, to add section twenty-two of the judiciary article to section four, it was agreed to. The Clerk read section four, as amend ed, as follows: SEC. 4. County courts for the transaction of county business in counties not having adopted township organization, shall con tinue in existence, and exercise their present jurisdiction until the board of county com missioners'provided in this Constitution, is organized in pursuance of an act of the Gen eral Assembly. [Section twenty-two of the Judiciary artcle.] The judges and clerks of county courts, la office at the adoption of this Constitution, shall hold their offices until the expiration of their respective terms, and the county courts now in existence shall have the same power and jurisdiction they now possess, tn til the judges and clerks of. county courts, provided for by this Constitution, shall be elected and qualified, and such other jurisdic. tion as may be provided by general law. Mr. BROWNING. Mr. Chairman: "Power and jurisdiction,"' I think, covers everything. The CHAIRMAN. If there is no ob jection, section four, as amended, will be declared adopted. TheJ Clerk read section five, as fol lows: SEC. 5. All existing courts which are not in this Constituticn specifically enumerated, shall continue in existence and exercise their present jurisdiction, until otherwise provided by law. Section five was agreed to. The Clerk read section six, as follows: SEC. 6. All officers now filling any office or appointment, shall continue in the exer cise of the duties thereof, according to their respective commissions or appointments, un less by this Constitution it is otherwise direct ed. Mr. WALL. I would suggest whether it would not be better to strike out the word "officers," and insert the word "per sons." Mr. MEDILL. I accept the amend ment. Section six, as amended, was agreed to. The CHAIRMAN. The question is upon the adoption of section seven. The Clerk read section seven, as fol lows: SEC. 7. On the day this Constitution is submitted to the people for ratifieation, an election shall be held for judges of the su preme court in the second, third, sixth and seventh judicial districts designated in this Constitution, at which election every person entitled to vote according to the terms of this Constitution, shall be allowed to vote, and the election shall be otherwise conducted, re turns made and certificates issued, in accor dance with the Caws now existing for the election of supreme judges. If, upon canvas sing the votes for and against the adoption of this Constitution, it shall appear that there has been polled a greater number of votes against than for it, then no certificates of election shall be issued for any of said judges. Mr. WASHBURN. Mr. Chairman: The section proposes to fix the qualifica tion of voters, or at least it undertakes to confer the right to vote. Whatever may hbe in this thing practically- and I do not know theft there is anything in it practically- it Js all wrong theoretically, s piration of their respective terms, and the county courts now in existence shall have the same power and jurisdiction they now possess, until the judges and clerks of county courts, provided for by this Constitution, shall be elected and qualified, and such other jurisdiction as may be provided by general law. I suppose this section four was intended to cover that ground. The object of section twenty-two was to continue the present jurisdiction of the county courts until oth erw i se provided by law. Other jurisdiction may also be conferred by the General Assembly. While this section four is necessary, section twenty-two is perhaps equally necessary. I move to add section twentytwo of the judiciary article to section four of the schedule. Mr. UNDERWOOD. Mr. Chairman: It is very important that the amendment of the gentleman from DuPage [Mr. Cody] be incorporated here. As these county courts are constituted, these county commissioners having jurisdiction over county business, the principal judge has jurisdiction over probate and other matters, relating to insane persons, etc. Hence it is important that these county courts, as they now exist should be continued with adl their powers until otherwise provided by law. I hope the amendment of the gentleman from DuPage [Mr. Cody] will be adopted. Mr. BROWNING Mr. Chairman: I wish to ask the gentleman from St. Clair [Mr. Underwood], what will be the necessits of retaining the fourth section as it stands in the report of the Committee upon the Schedule, if the twenty-second section of the judiciary article should be ,transferred? Mr. UNDERWOOD. It would take the place of it. Mr. BROWNING. It was moved as an addition to it. There is necessity, it seems to me, for retaining both sections. It will be better to substitute section twenty-two. Mr. CODY. Mr. Chairman: In view ,of the suggestion of the gentleman from McLean [Mr. BeDjamin] both are neces sary. Section four is in regard to county courts, for the transaction of county busi ness, until the county commissioners pro vided for shall be elected, and section twenty-two has reference to county courts doing probate business. Mr. BROWi~ING. Bult section twenty two includes county business as well as other business properly judicial. It includes everything that is in the fourth section. The terms "power and jurisdiction," ill the twenty-second section, cover every thing necessary to be provided for. Mr. HAINES, of Lake. Mr. Chair man: Section twenty-twvo refers to juris diction, which is a judicial matter. Sec tionl four of the schedule refers to county business, which is another subject. Mr. BROMWlELL. Mr. Chairman: I think it is likely that some parts of both of these sections should he in the section, when complete. If section twenty-two is added to this, there will be some surplus age in the language, but thle whole wvill go to the Committee on Revision and Adjustment, and they will thenl have it in their power to throw out the unnecessary language} modify the provisions of the whole section, so fOr as necessary to make complete sense, and thu~perfect it. because the provisions of the Constitution E are of no force or vitality until it becomes the law of the land, and I apprehend it is a usurpationsupon the part of this Con vention to undertake to prescribe the qualifications of voters, or to say who shall or who shall Lot vote so long as the present Constitutioln is in force, or unti l the proposed Constitution shall go into operation. For these reasons I would move to strike out the words "this Constitution," and insert the words "the existing Con stitution." Mr. ROSS. What difference is there? Mr. WASHBURN. I do not know that there is any, practically, but I do not want to vote for a principle or indorse a principle that assumes that this Conven tion, before the Constitution which it makes, goes into operation, has the power to prescribe the qualification of voters, or in other words, to annul the present Con stitution. Mr. HAYES. Mr. Chairman: I believe I am one of those who have asserted, all the time, the power of the Convention to adopt the Constitution without submit ting it to the people. I believe, also, that we all agreed that, on grounds of public policy, the Constitution should be submitted to the people, but there has been no denial, by the Convention, of its power to adopt the Constitution without such submission. If it has the power to adopt the Con stitution, it certainly has the power to designate the persons who shall vote for that'Constitution, and inasmuch as the def ignation is correct in its terms, and consistent with the previous action of the Convention in rezognizing the Constitu tion of the United States as it now exists, I do not see how we can, consistently, refuse to adopt this section of the sched ule. It seems to me there is nothing to be gained by undertaking to raise a con flict between the provision of the federal Constitution and the provision of the present Constitution of this State, upon the subject of the right of suffrage. By the present Constitution, none but white persons are permitted to vote. We all nnderstand that by the Constitu tion of the United States, as it is under stood to have been amended, colored per sons are entitled tovote. I for one, while opposed to the policy of admitting col ored people to the elective franchise, an not disposed to go back upon the record we have made here, in order to exhibit a partisan spirit. N~or am I disposed to make any issue upon that. I am willing always to defend my position when it comes to a vote, and a question is open for settlemnent. But as this question is not open, as it has been set'led icy this Con vention, and by the amended Constitution of the United States, I see no proprietyr in adopting a different and conflicting rule as to the qualification of voters upon the adoption of the Constitution.'ro say the least, I think it would look very bad ly fox us to attempt to exclude from the polls any of our people who are entitled by the Constitution of the United States to vote. Therefore, I hope that the amendment will not be adopted. Mr. WENDLING. Mr. Chairman: I move that the vote be now taken. Mr. HAY. Mr. Chairman.! wanted to make a motion to strike out sections seven and eight. t i I i e i 8 8 1794: CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION Tu-EsDAY, 41 DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. Mr. CODY. Mr. Chairman: I hope thiselectionforadditionaljudges,untilthe the gentleman will withdraw the motion question is settled as to whether the Conthat the vote be now taken, if he intended stitution is adopted or not, and then proto have it apply to the section, and the vide for their election at the regular Noamendment, also. vember election. The CHAIRMAN. The Chair under As a general principle, we have been stands that it does so apply. opposed to electing judges at a general Mr. CODY. Mr. Chairtnan: I hope election, but this is a temporary emerthe gentleman will withdraw the motion gency, which I am satisfied we had better long enough for me to make one verbal submit to than to produce the great inconamendment. We have, in the present venience and the seeminginconsistency of Constitution, and in the statutes of the calling an electionlforlofficers who, as yet, State, been in the habit of using the have no foothold in the Constitution, at words'judicial districts" and "judicial the same time we vote on the Constitucircuits" as being synonymous. tion. I would suggest the propriety of in- I therefore move to strike out thes e serting the word "election," between the two sections, and that the Committee on words "judicial" and "districts," so that Schedule be instructed to substitute in it will read "second and third judicial their place a section, providing for the election districts," election of supreme judges at the Novem Mr. MEDILL. Mr. Chairman: I accept ber election, if the Constitution be that amendment. adopted. Mr. HAINES, of Cook. I would sug- Mr. TURNER. Mr. Chairman: I hope gest whether the chairman of this com- the section will not be stricken out. In mittee has the right to accept amend- the first place, we have provided in our mentsin Comumittee of the Whole? Constitution that none of our judicial Mr. HAY. Mr. Chairman: After the officers shall be elected at thle general vote has been taken upon the amend- election for State officers. We have enments, will it be in order to move to deavored, as far as possible, to keep our strike out this section? judiciary out of politics, and that is one Mr. BROMWELL. Mr. Chairman: I reason why I am opposed to striking out believe it has been the rule that when a the section, and providing for the election motion is made to strike out, it has pre- of these officers at the general election in cedence if it goes to the entire section. November. We have a rule that motions to strike out In the second place, our supreme court is take precedence over motions to amend. really overburdenedwithwork. Whilethe The President has held that to apply article upon the judiciary was before the only to motions to strike out the whole Judiciary Committee, I had conversation section. There is no other interpretation with Ashe justices of the supreme court, that can be put upon that section. and they are extremely desirous that the Mr. ROSS. Mr. Chairman: I will call additional force should be given to them, attention to the fact, that after the mo- so that the new judges could take their tion to take the vote is made, amotion to seats at the September term, commencing strike out cannot be entertained. at Ottawa, on the first Tuesday in Sep Mr. WENDLING. Mr. Chairman: I tember. It will be a matter of great conrenew my motion that the vote be now venience to the court, the people and the taken. bar if they can do so. A division was ordered. In the next place, Mr. Chairman, my The committee divided, when, there impression is, that if the supreme judges being nineteen in the affirmative and can be elected at the time the Constitunineteen in the negative, the motion of tion is voted upon, it will go a good way Mr. Wendling, to take a vote, was not towards calling out the vote of the peoagreed to. ple on the Constitution. Mr. HAY. Mr. Chairman: I now I can see no harm that can result from move to strike out sections seven and eight, the sections as reported. If the Constiand will give my reasons. I do not know tution should not be adopted, the elecbut what these sections conform to the pro- tion of these judges would go for nothvision of the judiciary article, in reference mg; but if it should be adopted, we have to the elections of additional supreme the judges elected, so that they can enter judges and additional circuit judges in upon their duties at the commencement Cook county. I had some question at of the September term in Ottawa. The the time we were passing upon those expense will be very little, if anything,f articles of the Judiciary Committee, as to and it seems to me it will be better to let the propriety of electing judges at the the article stai d as it is. time of the adoption of the Constitution, Mr. CHURCH. Mr. Chairman: I am upon a mere contingency the contingen- not able to see the iorce of the last incy being as to whether the Constitution, ducement held out by the gentleman which provided for their existence, would from Stephenson [Mr. Turner] in regard go into operation or not and I think to the electionof these judges at the time that the subsequent reflections of most of the vote on the Constitution. If we gentlemen of the Convention, have have a good Constitution to submit, of brought them to the conclusion that it course we are all desirous to have it looks something like a farce to invite gen- adopted by the people; but it seems to me tlemen to become candidates for an office that if thealection of judges takes place which may never exist. at the time of the adoption of the Consti There is, in addition to that, the in- tution, it will have the opposite tendency convenience that will result from polling and not call support to the Constitution. a separate vote, a separate poll, providing If the judges are to be elected at that tickets separate from the simple proposi- time, the inducement to vote for the Contion which we propose to submit by bal- stitution, founded upon the choice of lot to the voters, on the adoption of judges at that time, may be narrowed the Constitution, separate returns, and down to the candidates that have been all that sort of thilng. It seems to me selccted and put before the people and there is a great propriety in not ordeng the particular friends that desire their MAY 10, 1870. 1795 election. If, upon the contrary, their election is postponed until after the elec-, tion upon the Constitution, all that desire the additional judoes to be elected, and all who desire to be elected judges, will be induced, of course, to go for the adoptiod. of the Constitution. I do not think the difference of a month or two should cause us to depart from. any good rule. I We are assuming a good deal when we provide for an election of an officer under this Constitution before we have a, Constitution in force. The vote f -)r officers is a mere experiment, and it seems to me the people may so regard it. The second dy of July is named as the day of the election. That is a question yet to be determined by the Convention. I am inclined to think that is too early. We have been five months in CODsideriug the matter. We certainly should afford the people of the State a fair opportunity to canvass our work. They will demand it,anditisjusticetothem. Ifourwork will bear inspection,weshoulddesire ourselves to have this opportunity afforded, and perhaps the Constitution should not be preseinied earlier than September. I would say with reference to the colored vote, th.ere is no inconsistency, of course, because that vote is provided for, not onl in this Constitution, but in t e y I ii Constitution of the United States, and is the law of the land. But there is another class provided for under this CODStitUtion-those who supposed they bad procured naturalization papers, and thereby entitled themselves to citizenship, and to the right of suffrage, which, if this Constitution is adopted, will become voters, notwith'standing the irregularities of the naturalization papers, if they have obtained them in good faith. Sections seven and eight, then, are to give specia'I force to a section of the Constitution before it is a Constitution. Now, the power of this Convention to ;provide who shall be officers under this Constitution, does -not raise the question of the power of this Convention to submit the Constitution to any class or classes of voters to be affected by it. It is a different power, and while we might say who will vote, and how and when, on the question of adoption, we ought not to attempt to give force to any section until after it is adopted. OONSTITUTIONAL OOYENTIO TUESDAY, Every person entitled to voteunder tihe provisions of this Constitution, as defined in the article in relation to "suffrage," shall, on said first baturday of July, A. D. 1870, be entitled to vote for the adoption or rejection of this Constitution, and for or against the articles and sections aforesaid, separately submitted; and the said qualified electors shall vote at the usual places of voting, unless otherwise provided; and the said election shall be conducted according to the laws now in force regulating elections: Provided, however, that the polls shall be kept open for the reception of ballots until sunset of said day of election. Mr. CHURCH. Mr. Chairman: I move to strike out of the second line "the first Saturday in July," and insert "the first Saturday in September." In support of that desire, I merely call attention to what I observed before, that the people should be certainly entitled to two thirds as much time to consider our work as we ourselves have been engaged upon it. Mr. WASHBURN. Mr. Chairman: I wish to offer the following: Resolved, That the Committee on Schedule be and they are hereby instructed to provide in the schedule for submission of each article of the proposed Constitution to a separate vote of the electors of this State. I propose to say a few words in regard to this, and I wish to say first that I make this motion and offer this resolution, in obedience to the act of the Legislature which called this Convention together. I do it for a further reason. Unies3 we pretend to assume that this Convention is infallible, and can do no wrong, it is very probable there are some por tious of the work of the Convention that will be objectionable to thepeople; that, indeed, much of it may be objectionable to many of the people of this State; that justice to the people of the State requires they should have the privilege of passing upon our work, according to its merits, and that it should not be forced upon them, as a whole, without giving them a choice between the good and the evil; without compelling them to indorse the evil that the Convention may have done, by virtue of the good we may have done. I say that this is all wrong in princi ple. If the Cou vention have done work that is acceptable to the people, theyv should have an opportunity to accept that good work; and whatever we may have done which is objectionable to them, should also be submitted separate ly, so that they may have'an opportunity tto reject it. I know of no plan which will fulfill the direction of the General Assembly in calling this Convention to gether, will completely do justice to the people, and give each man interested an opportunity to vote for whatever partic ular work he thinks good for the people, snd vote against whatever he thinks is not good, but to submit each article sep arately. To compel the people of the State, or any part of them, to vote for a proposition which they may think will be to the detriment of the people of the State, in order that they may support that which they think is for the interest of the State, is wrong in principle, and can not be justified on any ground. I hope the Convention will do the people the justice to submit each article separately. I wish to say that such sep arate submission will strengthen this Constitution instead of weakening it, be canse, if we separate the articles, what ever opposition there may be in this State, will be divided among many articles, notbe concentrated, as a whole, against premature. It is, as Lord Coke says, " jumping before we reach the fence." I presume this was designed to avoid the expense of two separate elections, and also to keep the election of judges from the partisan influences that sometimes control the general November elections-a But s ometimje s this is to an extent unavoidable. This election is only for a portion of the judges of the Cook county courts and the judges of the supreme court. At present the judges of the su-, preme court are divided politically, and they will probably be in future about the same, if the election is held in November, or before that time. We can save the expense of a special election by voting on these judgships at the November election, and it would answer all practical purposes. Perhaps we might adopt that day by common consent. I admit it is desirable to relieve the judges of the supreme court by additional judges, but they have labored faithfully so far, and I have no doubt will be able to finish up their business this year, if this Constitution is adopted, and next year, by the aid of more judges, they may be relieved. The same may be said as to the Cook county courts. They have now as many judges as St. Louis, or more, and can get along until next year. I presume it will be best to have this election in November. Mr. ROSS. Does the gentleman regard it desirable to have our judges elected as politicians at the time of the general electioln; to have the judiciary elections run into politics? Mr. UNDERWOOD. No; and for that reason we have provided that hereafter they shall be elected in June. If this election, in November, this year fell at or near a general presidential election, when party feeling runs high, I would prefer a separate election. But there is very little party feeling now, and will not be much in November, and [Here the hammer fell]. Mr. TINCHER. I presume it is not very important whether this section is left in or stricken out. We have heard the views of the distinguished gentlemen on this question, and the balance are probably ready to vote. I move we now proceed to vote. The motion was.greed to. The CHAIRMAlN. The question is on the motion to strike out section seven. A division was ordered. The motion of Mr. Hay to strike out sectioln seven was agreed to. The CHAIRMAN. The question is upon the motion of the gentleman irom Saugamon [Mr. Hay] to strike out section eight. The mo~tion wfas agreed to. The Clerk read section nline, abs follows: the Constitution. If the re be articles which are objectionable to the majority of the people, they should be voted down, and not be forced upon the people, by connecting them with articles which are desirable. The CHAIRMAN. A motion to instruct the committee would not be in order. A motion to strike out this section and insert another would be in order. Mr. PARKS. Mr. Chairman: I am inclined to the opinion that if we want the executive, legislative and judicial articles of the Constitution all adopted, we had better submit them altogether; that the probability is they would strengthen each other, and will be more likely to be adopted if submitted together. I did not rise, however. to argue that point at all, but merely to suggest to the Convention that we should uot appoint any day for voting upon the Constitution until after harvest, because there are a great many people who will not leave the harvest field to attend election. What time we had better fix upon I am not exactly certain myself. There are a number of farmers here who can inform us at about what time the agricultural interests of the State will be through with har vest, and will be prepared to go to the polls to vote upon this Constitution. The farmers constitute a majority of the vo ters of the State, and I am in favor of settling upon the time that will suit them best. Mr. MEDILL. Mr. Chairman: I de sire to say a word on this matter. I was originally in favor of submitting the whole Constitution in separate articles, and the various sections that we have had serious division of opinion about, as sep arate propositions. The matter was pret. ty thoroughly canvassed in the commit tee on three evenings, and when the vote was finally taken upon it, I found myself in the minority very decidedly. I believe I was the only man on the committee who voted in favor of the submission of all the articles separately, and my adherence to that view was so very seriously de moralized by the argument of the chair man of the. committee [Mr. Scholfield], that I gave Way, and said I would make no issue in the Convention on it. All I desired was the best way of placing the Constitution before the committee for its consideration, and the committee compromised between the old method and the plan proposed in the form before us —to put the body of the Constitution together for one vote? and then separately submit such separate articles and provisions as the Convention might deem best. It is not necessary at all to refer this matter back to the Committee on Sched ulc, for if there are any mnore artic! as to be submitted separately, all the Convention has to do is to specify them, and direct that they shall be included among the separate articles. If that committee is called together, we shall not know what articles the Convention want to separate from the main body. Therefore, I hope the Schedule Committee will not be called together, but that the Committee of the Whole will fix this matter to suit the Convention, here and now. Mr. ~AND)EVENTER. Mr. Chairman: This is undoubtedly a matter of a great deal of diffculty. I do not know that we can secure unanimity in the Con vention itself. SF,c. 9. This Constitution shall be submitted to the people of the State of Illinois for adoption or rejection at an election to be held on the first Saturday in July, A. D. 1870, and there shall be submitted at the same time, for adoption or rejection The article in relation to railroads; The ari ticle in relation t o warehouses - The article in relation to counties; The article in relation to —; And also the section in relation to the Illinois Central Railroad tax; The section in relation to the removal of county seats; The section in relation to minority representation, and The section in relation to municipal subscriptions to railroads or private corporations. 0 CO-NSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION TUF,SDAY, 1796 MAY 1}D 1870 DEBATES AND PROCEEDIN' irg so, we would secure a more decided opinion of the people of the State, than if - the election were in July. I hope the motion will be sustained. Mr. WASHBURN. Inasmuch as my proposition to refer was ruled out of or der, and as I want to test the sense of the Convention on the question of submitting each article separately, I will make an other motion that we strike out of section nine all after "1870," in the third line, and insert the words-"in such a manner that a separate vote may be had on each article of this Constitution." Mr. MERRIAM. Mr. Chairman: I hope the motion to strike out will not prevail. The Committee on Schedule, in considering this question, thought it best to group so, much of the proposed new Constitution as seemed to the members of the Convention objectionable, believ isg that in so doing we would present the main part of our work in such a manner that the people would see the effect of the adoption of these three articles, and they have a better understanding of it than they could by taking it upon separate propositions. We endeavored to leave out of those three articles those sectionto that provoked the most hostility here, or upon which there has been the greatest division of opinion-and the object is a v ery good one. I take it that submitting separate arti cle s and sections (as we have so many articles and sections), we will make a sort of patchwork that would make a very imperfect Constitution. It seenms to me the best policy to have as much of our work together, in a body, as possible, and to take these disputed sections, sub mit them separately, and let each voter exercise his own judgment upon them. As to the proposition to postpone this election, it seems to me that the people of the State will take more interest in our work, if it is submitted as proposed in the schedule, than if postponed to a later day. Gerntlemen say that we have been here f r five months framing this work, and that the people wantto examine it. They mr ust remember that while we have been m hdoing this work the people have been ex amining it, and criticising it, and that a very large portion of them are just as well posted upon the Constitution as the members of this Convention. I believe they will be prepared to vote as intelligently upon our work in July as they would be -in six months. Mr BROWNING, Mr. Chairman: I should regret to see this section stricken out. It is as nearly right, accordinag to apmy best judgment, as it can be made. If we disintegrate the Constitution and submit each article as a separate proposition, what will probably be the result? Some sections will no doubt be ad,opted, but there is also a probability that some will be rejected, and there may not be enough adopted t) make a whole. Such a Constitution would be a mutilated affair, under which we could not conduct the government. We might have a legislative department, without a judiciary department, or an executive department without either legislative or judicial. Some of the essential elements of a perfect government would be wanting. Although a majority of the articles might be adopted, they would be so disjointed that we could have no pertfet government under them r I am somewhat surprised at the re' marks of the gentleman from from Lo gal [,Mr. Parks], that if we desire to se cure the adoption of the judiciary, execu tive and legislative articles, we should submnit these three articles together; for if there be one article in this Conistitu tion that would fail to secure my appro bation), and is decidedly unpalatable to me, it is the article on the j udiciary. While I confess that I am not much in favor of submitting each article separately yet, if I cannot secure a separate vote upon the judiciary article, unless I will consent to submit all separately, I will vote in favor of submitting each article sepa rately. There are a good many of these articles that the people do not care much about, that are not very important, and I can see no reason why they should all be submitted separately. But, so far as the judiciarvy, executive and legislative arti cles are concerned, they are very import ant, and I think the people ought to have an opportunity of expressing their opin ion upon them s parately. I am satisfied that tile judiciary article is not accepta ble to the people of this State, and I will favor any proposition by which it may be sumrattled separately. I wilt state while I am on the floor, that I am decidedly in favor of the no tion made by the gentleman from Mc Henry [Mr. Church]. The people of the rural districts, about the first of July and during that month, so far as I know, are engaged in a businless which they will not give up or suspend for the purpose of going to tlhe pol Is. Mir. TIN(CHER. Mr. Chairman: Does not the law under which the Convenution was called together, require a submission of the new Constitution within three months? If so, we have got to hold over here a while in order to make Sep temiiber within three mouths of the time. Mr. VANDEVENTER. Mr. Chairman: Perhaps that is true. But I am in favor of striking out July and putting the election at tthe very end of the three months, if it can only o)e postponed three mo,Inths. Mlr.'INCHER. Mr. Chairman: Saturday, the sixth of August, would do that. ~r. VANDEIVENTER. Mr. Chairmsan: During the mouth of July, the Simmers of thle S~tate are engaged ill harvesting their hay, eats and small grains; and so far as my experience goes, i anm satisfied that they will nlot sto~p to) go to the polls and vote upon this Constitution at that time. There is so me prejudice existing against it, but some will not vote agai-s~ it, though they cannot vote for it. I think if we put the election off until the enod of three muonths fr'om the time we adijourn, we will secure a larger vote thou it wve vote in July. A gentleman at my light says he does not believe that. His opinion may be the correct one, but it seems to me that is a better timne of the year 80 far as the farmners are concerned. I am not certain that the abet calling us together requires us to submit this question within three mouths after our adjournment A genxtleman1 at my side says it does not say anythiJsg about it, andl in that event, I am in rawer of submitting the matter ill September; and on examination, I find the l1aw des niot prescribe any time. Bit do~ 4150' MAY 10, 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1797 I But every one of. the articles which the report propokes to submit separately niay be rejected, and yet the Constitution pre seat a complete, perfect and acceptable form of goverDM(,'Ilt. If we lose every article whichit is pro. posed to submit separately, atid yet carry what is submitted as a whole, we will ,4ti 11 have a Constitution, prt)vidi-Dg for all the departments of government, and un der which all the functions of govern meiit can be effi —iently performed. It would bc a most idjudicious thing, in my view of the case, to make aiiy further dis. tribution for a sep —.trate submission than has already been i-nade. One word more with reference to the time. The time indicated by the com. mittee is right in the middle of harvest, in all this region -f central Illinois. Mr. MEDILL. I would say that the time fixe(i in the schedule was advocated by several members of the committee from the central and southern porti(,)us ot'the State, and was inserted agaiiast the wishes of the members from the northern section. But it uaay be advisable to cliadge the time fixed for submitting the Coustitution to a vote. Mr. TINCHER. Mr. Chai,,-man': How often has this been amended? The CHAIRMAN. The first question is on the motion of the gentleman frorn McHenry [Mr. Church], to strike out "July" and insert "Septetaber." Mr. TINCHER. Mr. Chairman: I move to strike out the words 11 first of July," and insert the f)llowing- "Shall be held on Saturday, the twentieth day of August." The CHklR,14AN. The amendment is not in order now. Mr. BROWNING (in his seat). would suggest the first Saturday in Au. gust. Mr. TINCHER. Mr. Chairman: was at first impressed in favor of of tbe first Stturday in August, but my j tidg. ment now is for the twentieth of August. Mr. 13ROWNING. Mr. Chairman: At that time the farmers are busy in the preparation of seediijg, and, in the northern part of the State, in the midst of harv (-,,-, t. Mr. TINCHER. Mr. Chairman: I wilt agree to th. thir.,eenth-Saturday, -~~~~~OSIUINL OYNIN' EDY If the election is not postponed as lollg as that, I should be as well satisfied with the time fixed by the c(mmittee as with any intervening time. I will, therefore, having supported and made that motion, move to reconsider the vote by which the second line was stricken out. That will open the way for such motions as gentlemen may desire to make. Mr. WENDLING. Mr. Chairman: It seems to me that in considering this question, gentlemen forget that the State of Illinois is four hundred miles long, and embraces several degrees of latitude. I recollect the other evening, sir, several gentlemen were discussing the proper time for submitting this Constitution. Some suggested the fifteenth day of June. One gentleman-I think it was the gent leman from Williamson [Mr. Washburn] -said that the harvest, in bis section of the country, began at that time. Other dates suggested, met with similar objection from other gentlemen, and, sir, it was found that harvest, in the State of Illinois, continued from the middle of June to the middle of August, and that it would be impossible to avoid a conflict in every portion of the State, at any time between the middle of June and the middle of August. Theretire, I think, sir, that it would be as convenient for the people connected with the agricultural interests of our State, to fix the time from the second of July up to the middle of July. I think that will be as good a time as we can select. The CHAIRMAN. Ihe Chair will inform the Committee that the motion of the gentleman from Williamson [Mr. Washburn] is in order, and this debate in regard to the time is not in order. Mr. MEDILL. Mr. Chairman: I wish to make a very brief explanation of the reasons that induced the committee to decide upon the second day of July. Mr. DEMENT. Mr. Chairman: I call the gentleman to order. Unless this subject is open to debate for all the members of the committee, I insist that it shall not be open 0o any one. The (JCHAIRMAN. The motion to strike out is debatable. Mr. DEMENT. Mr. Chairman: I understood that the vote was ordered to be taken on all the questions pending. The CHAIRMAN. Not on the motion to strike out. Mr. MEDILL. The reason for fixing an early day was, that if we adjourned this week there would be more than six weeks between the adjournment and the second of July. Our work is now fresh in the minds of the people. They are thinking of what we are doing, a'- considering these subjects, are waiting to see this Constitution. They will immediately commence discussing and analyzing it, and the subject will warm up from day to day, as the time advances towards the election, so that when the election comes on, the people will know more about the merits of this Constitution than at any later day that might be named. While the iron is hot, the old maxim is, to strike, if you want to make an impression. The Committee were apprehensive that if we put the election off until after harvest, in August or September, the people would have become somewhat indifferent and cooled down; that they would say, "There is no use of investiga. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION 'EUESDAY, l7v8 tidg the subject now," and so the matter would pass out )f midd for a couple of months, and that "out of sight, being out of mind," we would not be able to rceall their attention in September, to the merits of this Constitution, and it might fall still-born for want of critical examination and investigation on the part of voters. Therefore, we name this early day for the submission. Mr. CUMMINGI,4. Mr. Chairman: I suppose the question before the committee is the motion made by the gentleman from Williamson [Mr. Washburn] to strike out and insert, so to amend that the various articles of the Constitution will be submitted to a vote separately. I wish to say a few words in reply to the gentleman froin Adams [Mr. BrowiniDo,]. The idea he advanced, if I understood him correctly, was that if the articles were submitted separately we would iiot have a perfect Constitution. I suppose the article on the executive to be in lieu of the old article oii the executive: the article upon the judiciary system to be in place of the judiciary sysl-em in t'. —,e old .Constitution: the article on the legislative department, to be in place of the legislative article in the old Constitution; and that if either one of thesc articles should be voted down, and the other two should be voted for, the two voted for would become a part of the new Constitution, and the old article in the Constitution would still remain in force, and continue a part of the CoDstitution., If these articles are so framed tllat they are not able to stand alone before ttie people, they ought to be voted down, and the idea of gividg them strength by proppiijg one against the other, is something .1 am opposed to. Give the people who have sent us here a fair show to say what portion of our work they will receive, and what they will reject-not say, "We give you one good apple, and a poisoned apple-you must take the two together, or none." It is dealing unjustly with the people, unfairly with those whom we are here to represent. I do not want to go before my constituents and say to them, "You must take every article in this Constitutior., or none.,, Mr. TINCHER. The gentleman says that if we give the people a good apple and a bad apple, we deal unjustly with order. Has the previous question been ordered OD this amenclmeii,? The CHAIRNIKN. The motion was that the vote be taken on the whole sul)ject, and the gentleman from Fulton [Mr. Ross] called for a division of the question, which call the Chair sustained. Mr. DENIENT. The gentleman from Fulton [Mr. Ross] called for a division, and'.,he gentleman from Shelby [Mr. Wendl ing] for a vote on the questij)a then pending. The CHAIRMAN. If the Gentleman is not satisfied with the decision of the Chair, he has his remedy by appeal. Mr. DEMENT. The gentleman who moved the vote will sustain me' Mr. WENDLING. Mr. Chairman: I regret very much that I did not move the previous questiOD, intending it to apply to the wl-iole subject. The CHAIRMAN. Gentlemen are out of order. The committee has acted on the motion. Mr. BROWNING. I am not anxious for any particular time, but that time that will be acceptable to the majority of the committee The CHAIRMAN. The question'is on the amendment offered by the gentleman from Vermilion [Mr. Tiucher] to insert August thirteenth.. A division was ordered. The committee divided, when, there being twenty-six in the affirmative and thirty-two in the iaegative, the amendmen', was not agreed to. Mr. ROSS. I rise to a question of or. der. "July" only has been stricken out, and we can only fill the blank with the name of a month-Lot day of the month also, but we can insert the day after we have filled the blank with the month. The CHAIRMAN. The question is on the motion of the gentleman from Williamson [Mr. Washburn] to strike out all after "1870," in line three, and insert, "in such manner that a separate vote Maybe had on each article of this Constitution." Mr. HAINES, of Lake. There is a of order here. This was adopted Convention and caiiinot be stricken out in Committee of the Whole. The sections in relation to minority representation and municipal subscriptions, and two or three others, were adopted in Con DEBATES AND PR(OUEDINGS. elected after the adoption of this Constitution, shall be nine years; and on the first Monday of June of the year in which the term of any of the judges in office at the adoption of this Constitution, or of the judges then elected, shall expire, and every nine years thereafter, there shall be an election for the successor o r successors of such judges, in the respective districts wherein the term of such judges shall expire. Tile chief justice shall continue to act as such until the expiration of the term for which he was elected, after which the judges shall choose one of their number chief justice. Mr. ROSS. Mr. President: I sincerely hope the gentleman from Sangamon [Mr. Hay] will not insist upon electing the supreme judges at the general election. There is no provision in the old Constitution that gave more general satisfaction to the people than that M ithdrawiiig the judiciary from the arena of politics. I hope we will continue in that line. There are enough objections to the judiciary article already, without encumbering it with such an election of judges. Mr. UNDERWOOD. I think the gentleman does not understand the proposition. It is to elect the first judges, not those thereafter. Mr. ROSS. That is, we are only to have political judges for nine years. Mr. TURNER. Mr. President: If this resoulution be adopted, I think it would necessitate a reconstruction of the entire section. I would suggest to the gentleman from Sangamon [Mr. Hay] to so reconstruct the section that the election shall take place at the general election in November, and every nine years thereafter. There is no question in my mind that the time has now come when we can no longer keep the judiciary out of politics. There is manifestly a fixed determination that it shall be run into politics. If so let every party have a chance. If judges are to be politicians, if we are to elect them in the heat and excitement of political elections, let the rule be general and uniform throughout the State. Mr. CHURCH. Mr. President: The gentleman from Stephenson [Mr. Turner] and the gentleman from Fulton [Mr. Ross] perhaps would like to suggest such a time as to have their constituents called to vote at an election when there will probably be no contest in any of the districts. The question now is whether we shall have an election at the time the Constitution is adopted or at the November e lec s tion. I would rather the judges should be elected at the November election, and, sir, there is no proposition made by the gentlemen for electing them at any other time. Mr. TURNER. Mr President: I would ask the gentleman what objection can be urged against voting for judges at the same time the Constitution is submitted. It will add nothing to the expense. Mr. CHURCH. Theobjection madeis this, that till this Constitution is adopted there are no judges to be elected. Mr. ROSS. Mr. President. Why not elect between August and November? It will keep this question out of politics. sMr. CHURCH. Mr. President: The gentleman from Sangamon [Mr. Hay] has offered a proposition to elect in November. Now, sir, let the gentlemen f rom Fulton [Mr. Ross] and Stephenson [Mr. Turner] offer an amendment to the motion of the gentleman from Sangamon [Mr. Hay]. Mr. ROSS. Mr. President: If in order, I will move, as an amendmlent, the first Tuesday in October. Mr. CHURCH. Mr. President: Now that that amendment is proposed, I will say no more than that I do not believe the people of the State desire to be subjected to the exp ense of an e lection only one month before te e gen e ral e lection. The general election, I suppose, will partake very little of political excitement, and I do not believe that politics will enter into the judicial election at all, for if the construction of the districts is such as I suppose it is, the result is a foregone conclusion. Did the gentleman [Mr. Ross] and his friends propose to accomplish political purposes by means of tihe election of supreme judges in the old three districts, as was first proposed? If such was tht purpose at that time, that proposition is defeated. I have no right to suspect that the gentleman or his friends contemplated anything of that kind. Mr. ROSS. Mr. President: I do not desire any more than that the people should act on the subject disconnected from party politics-that honest men, faithful men-may be chosen independent of party politics. Whether any of these gentlemen wish any of their friends to be elected in the whirl of political excitement, who could not be elected on a fair vote, I canno't say, but it looks very much that way. I sincerely hope gentlemen will not insist that our supreme court shall be elected as partisans. The PRESIDENT. The question is on the amendment offered by the gentleman from Fulton [Mr. Ross], inserting the first Tuesday of October, as the day of election, to the resolution of the gentleman from Sangamon [Mr. Hay], fixing it on the day of the general election, in November. The yeas and nays were ordered, and being taken, resulted-yeas, 27, nays 36 -as follows: sire that each article may be submitted separately, and can see no harm that can arise from so doing. There are many things I like, and a few I do not. Mr. HAINES, of Lake. Does not the gentleman understand that if the judiciary article is voted down, the rest of the articles would be inconsistent? Mr. WENDLING. Mr. Chairman: I move that the vote be now taken upon all the propositions now before the committee. Mr. WRIGHT. Mr. Chairman: I move that the committee rise, report progress, and ask leave to sit again at two o'clock P. M. A division was ordered. The committee divided, when there being twenty-six in the affirmative, the motion was agreed to. ADJOURNMENT. Mr. WENDLING. Mr. President: I move that the Convention do now adjourn. The motion was agreed to. So the Convention (at twelve o'clock and eighteen minutes) adjourned. ELECTION OF SUPRE.AIE JUDGES. Mr. CODY. Mr. President: Before the Convention resolves itself into Committee of the Whole, I desire to suggest'he propriety of fixing the time for the election of the supreme judg es that are to be elected this fall, so that the Committee on Revision and Adjustment may be able to change the judiciary article to corres pond with the action of the Convention, as the judicia ry article already provides that these judges shall be elected at the time of voting on the a doptio n of the Constitution. That provision having been stricken out of the schedule, it will become necessary that the judiciary article correspond with the time fixed by the Convention, and, although perhaps it is a little irregular, it will facilitate our work, if the time for electing these judges can be fixed at once. Mr. HAY. I move that the Committee on Revision and Adjustment be instructed to provide for the election of these additional supreme judges, and the additional circuit judges in Cook county, at the regular November election. Mr. WALL. I would like to inquire whether it is the purpose of the gentle man that the terms of the judges elected in November shall expire at the time fixed in the judiciary article, or nine years after the election in November? Mr. HAY. I have forgotten what the terms are. Mr. CODY. Mr. President: If the gentleman from Perry [Mr. Wall] will yield a moment, perhaps this section will explain it. Section six of the judiciary article reads as follows: SEC. 6. At the time of voting on the adoption of this Constitution, one judge of the supreme court shall be elected by the electors thereof in each of said districts numbered two, three, six and seven,who shall hold their office for the term of nine years from the first Monday of June, in the year of our Lord one thousand eight hundred and seventy. The term of office of judges of the supreme court. MA.. -., JLS70. I iit9 AFTERNO ON SESSION. TUF,SDAY, May 10, 1870. The Convention met at two o'clock P. m., and was called to order by the President. 180 COSIUTOA COYt~TEDY This Constitution shall be submitted to the people o f the State of Illinois, for adoption or rejection, at an election to be held on Saturday, August 20Lh, 1870. The PRESIDENT. Au amendment is still in order. Mr. BENJAMIN. Mr. President: I would move, then, as an amendment, that this eltcti(,n be held on the day that this Constitution is submitted to the people for adoption or rejection. I do not wish to see this election under tile control of politicians. I can see an objection in that respect to holding an election in November, and notwithstanding the arguments used this forenoon in Committee of the WhIle, I still think that an election for judges on the day this Constitution is submi tted, would give better satistaction to the people of the State, and would be less likely to cause party nominations. I can see from the vote just taken that the question is liable to assume a partisan aspect. For that reason I make this motion. The amendminent I propose is to strike out the wo rd s before "Saturday" in the second li ne, and to strike out "July," if it is not already stri(ken out. The CHAIR_AN. That has already b e en stricken h ut. geir. DEMENT. Mr. Chairman: I would then insert "August" in place of ,July." I would suggest to members of the committee, as it has already been illustrated to their satisfaction, that if we are trying to avoid holding the election in the busy season of harvest, meutbers from the south state that harvest beginas in the southern part of the S?ate in Ju e. Long since I farmed in the southern p rt of the State. I was a-very young farmer then and forget the precise time of harvest there. I have been fatImi-ng for quite a number of years in the northern part of the State, and I will state that the busy part of harvest will extend to or very iear the 20th of August. Every farmer of the north well knows this, that in all sections we must cut our grate lien it is ripe. We cannot p,ostpone that, and after we have cut it down we mu,,t take it up and stack it. This agricultural duty is not over until about the 20th (,f August. That is all I have to say on that particular point. I wish to call attention to what we have done in relation to giving U-tice in tie weekly newspapers of the State, and the terms upon which the newspapers are to publish the Constitution. Thtey mnust pub-ish it thirty davs in a regular issue of the paper. Mr. MEDILL. One insertion. Mr. DEMIEN r. One insertion, which must be thirty days prior to,,le day on which we propose to adopt the Coi:)stitu. tion. Now it is not uureasonable to say that a copy of the Constitution cannot be with certainty in the hands of the publishers of these weekly papers befo)re the 23d of the present month, and I be lieve it cannot be in their hands before the first of Junie. It has to be copied. It will undoubtedly have to be pubt)lished in some of the dtiily papers, bard from those papers a copy will be obtained for the weekly papers. It will not be assumed that copies will be sent out from ally ,;ffice iu the State to each one of the weekly newspapers. If these papers receive a copy fo~r publication in a regular issue thirty days before the day fixed tor the adoption of this Conlstitution, they will publish it and receive a compenasation;- if not, such papers will snot make the pub, licati()m, as it must take place thirty days prior to the election on this Constitution. Mr. MEDILL. If thirty days be too lol:~g the time might be redulceld to fifteen days. Mr. DEM:ENT. As far as that is concerned, we might go: back and undo all we have douse. Mr. ROSS. Whould not; the gentleman qu'lify his mo)tion by insverting the mon(ith of August? We could fix the day aftert wards. Mir DEMENT. The Constitution has first to be tranlslated into the several languagefs, and some time must necessarily elapse befo~re the wetekly papers whichi hams to wait fair thei tr~[slati.:m, ca tI~ IP Fox, Perley, Goodhue, Robinson, Haines of Lake Ross, Hankins, Sedgwick,~ Harwood, Sharp, Hayes, Snyder, Hildrup, Springer, King, Turner, McDowell, Vandeventer, Mer-riam, Wall, Moore, Wendling, Neece, Wilson-37. ABSENT, OR NOT VOTING. Allen of Alex. Buxton, Poage, Allen of C'fd. C ary, Ric e, Atkins, Cody, Scholfield, Bowman, Coolbaugh, Skintiner, Bromiwell, English, Wrif'ht, Brown, Hanna, Mr.President-20. Bryan, Mccoy, So the resolution offered by Mr. Hay was not agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The amendment proposed by the gentleman from McLean [Mr. Benjamin] is now the proposition that is in the hands of the Commiittee on Revision and Adjustment. His object can be accomplished by vo ting down the resolution. It is not necessary or prop er to put two questions, one upon the atmendment, and the other upon the resolution. Mr. DEMENT. I hope, sir, that the resolution will be voted down, if that is the only way the object of the gentleman from McLean [Mr. Benja nin] can be attained. It cannot be denied that if the election of supreme judges is held at the same time with the general election, the political caucuses which nominate candidates for political State offices will also nominate candidates from their respective parties for the supreme bench. Mr. TINCHER. Mr. President: I hope that the people will not be subjected to the expense of an additional election, and I hope the resolution may be adopted. Gentlemen may talk about separating it from political excitement and so forth, but this objection comes from gentlemen, with very bad grace from politicians, who, I presume, never scratched!a ticket in their lives upon a question of judgship, or anything else. I am willing to leave it with the people, and let them put in politics, or not, just as they see fit. We cannot separate the judge and the people from having some interest in political affairs; and it is all a sophistry and a myth, this old fogy idea that we have got to hold this elec ti, r in June, whe:, nobody can go to an election, except a few politicians, who can find their friends at tife street corners and take them to the polls I want the judicial election to come at the s.,rne time with the regular election, when the people can express their preferences as to whom they will elect. I hope the resolution will pass. ["*Read."] The Secretary read the resolution, as offered by Mr. Hay, as follows: SCHEIIDULE. The PRESIDENT. The hour has arrived for the special order, and the Convention will be declared resolved into a Committee of the Whole, to consider the schedule. So the Convention, as in Committee of the Whole (Mr. Anderson in the chaire). resumed the consideration of the report of the Committee on Schedule. The CHAIRMAN. The question is upon the motion of the gentleman from Shelby [Mr. Wendling], that the vote be now taken upon the amendment offered by the gentleman from Williamson [Mr. Washburn]. The motion of Mr. Wendling was agreed to. The Clerk read the amendment offered by Mr. Washburn, as f4)llows: Strike out all after "1870," in the third line, and insert the following: q In such manner that a separate vote may be had on each article of this Constitution." A division was ordered. The committee divided, when, there being nineteen in the affirmative and thirty-one in the negative, the motion to strike out and insert was not agreed to. Mr. DEMENT. Mr. Chairman: I now propose another amendment. Mr. VANDEVENTER. Mr. Chairman: I rise a point of order. There is a motion to reconsider now pending. The CHAIRMAN. A motion to reconsider cannot be entertained in Committee of the Whole. Mr. VANDEVENTER. Mr. Chairman: I understand it has been the practice, ever since we assembled, to reconsider in Committee of the Whole. The CHAIRMAN. The Chair will take the responsibility of the ruling. If gentlemen dissent they can appeal. Mr. DEMENT. Mr. Chairman: There has been a great diversity of opinion expressed in the committee as to what day we should fix for the submission of the Constitution that We are about to propose. I wish to suggest for the consideration of the members of the committee the twentietlh of August, and to amend section 3nine, so that it will read in that part of the seChio — Jandolved, That the Committee on Revision and Adjustment be instructed to provide in the sixth section of the judiciary article fa,r the election of supreme judges at the general election in November, in the year of our Lord one thousand eight hundred and seventy! and also that the additional circuit judges for Cook county b.e eleted at the same time. The yeas and niays were ordered, and being taken, resacted-yeas 26, nays 37T 8s folio a s: CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION TUESDAY, 1800 TEAS. Anthony, Medill, Bayne, Parker, Ctiarch, Parks, Fuller, Peirce, Gamble I Pill,-,t)ury, Goodell, - Sherrill, Haines of CookSutherland, Hart, Tincher, Hay, Truesdale, Tubbs, Underwood, Wagner, WaTit, Washburn, Wells, Wliea,ton, Whiting-26. NA.YS. Abbott, &nderson, Archer, Benjamin, Browning, Cameron, Craig, Cross, Cuminings, Dement, Eldredge, Ellis, Forman, KA 017.DBTSAN RCEIG.io order. I proposed an amendment, which has not been disposed of. The gentleman from Carroll [Mr. Wagner] moved anoth er. Now, a third is cffered. The CHAIRMAN. The Chair under stood the proposition offered by the gen t leman to be voted down. Mr. DEMENT. Not at all. It has not been voted on. The proposition of the gentleman from Fulton [Mr. Ross] to change it from the twentieth of August to August, was voted down. The CHAIRMAN. The Chair under stood the gentleman from Fulton [Mr. Ross] to ask for a division of the ques tion, which was conceded, when the ques tion being taken on striking out first Saturday of August, it failed, so that there was nothing left of the gentleman's motion but the "twentieth." Mr. VANDEVENTER. I ask for a division of the question on the amend ment of the gentleman from Carroll [Mr. W agner]; first on striking out, then on inserting. Mr. CARY. Mr. Chairman: I think it is evident that the committee made a wise selection in the day they chose. If the question had been taken with as much information on the subject as we now have, we would have concurred almost unanimously in selecting the first Saturday in Jul y. I think it wilt come nearer giv ing satisfaction than any other day. And although I would not myself object to the amendment of the gentleman from Carroll [Mr. Wagner], still it seems that some gentlemen are of the opinion that that does not provide long time enough. Therefore I hope that all the amendments may be voted down, and that we adopt the time reported by the committee. iMr. CULNfMINGS. Mr. Chairman: I move to amend the motion of the gentleman from Carroll [Mr. Wagner] by inserting July instead of June. I would prefer that time to an earlier period. Al Mr. McCOY. Mr.,Chairman: I had thought I would take no part in this discussion, nor do I intend to say a great deal at present. Some gentlemen have contended that a remote period would be the better time for submitting this Constitution. Well, sir, I have been ponderi nlg over this subject while the discussion has been going on, and I have made up my mind that the shortest period of time would be better than any other named. And I think so for this reason. This Convention, in its wisdom has created an extensive and very august body, denominated a'"committee," possessed of all the intelligence of this body, I apprehend, and directed them to address the people of the State of Illinois, on the peculiarities and merits of the Constitution. For my part, sir, I think that the particular time that will necessarily be devoted to this labor will bring out all light and in telligence, so that it will not take a great deal of time after that address is proclaimed to the people, for them to make up their mind on the subject. - And hence it is, sir, that I am for the shortest period of time, the first Saturday in June-for more especially after this light has been shed all over this broad State, can the people of this great State of Illinois come up and vote intelligently upon the subject; and that, too, before they have gone into their harvest fields- s before they have become engrossed in the farming and agricultural business, so far as harvesting their grain is concerned. issued, and the twentieth of August is not too late for holding the election. [Here the hammer fell.] Mr. VANDEVENTER. The gentle man made no motion while he was up. As the section now stands, there is a word stricken out,-"July,"-and nothing has been supplied. Mr. DEMENT. I move to amend by striking out "the first," in that second line, and inserting "Saturday, August twentieth." Mr. VANDEVENTER. Then I call for a vote on that. Mr. ROSS. I ask for a division of the question, so that the vote on "August" shall be taken from the day of the month. The CHAIRMAN. The question will first be taken on striking ouc "the first." Mr. ROSS. Mr. Chairman: I do not think it is a proper motion now. It certainly is a divisible question to strike out and insert in the blank, "August." We have already struck out. The CHAIRMAN. The question is upon striking out the "first," and inserting "Saturday, August twentieth." The amendment offered by Mr. Dement was not agreed to. The CHAIRMAN. The question is upon the adoption of the section. Mr. ROSS. Mr. Chairman: I would suggest that it is not proper to adopt the section without fixing some time. Mr. VANDEVENTER. Mr. Chairman: I move to put in "July." ["No." "No."] Mr. WAGNER. Mr. Chairman: I move to strike out "first," in the second line, and insert "last," so that it will read "on the last Saturday in June," making it "June," instead of "July." That will meet, I think, the objections of almost every member who has addressed himself to the question. We in the north will not have commenced our harvest; in the central part of the State perhaps harvesting will have about commenced, but I think, taking the whole State into consideration, that date will better accommodate the people than any later time. Mr. HAYES. Mr. Chairman e I am opposed to any amendment which will shorten the time between the presentation of this Constitution and its submission to the people. If we submit it, we should do so in good faith, giving them ample opportunity to examine and discuss it, so as to vote intelligently. Whatever :avorite provisions I may have in it, I do not desire to force them on the people, or obtain their success by indirection, or taking "snap judgment." I hope am~ple opportunity will be given to the people to read over every provision in it. I would be willing, if practicabule, to submit every provision separately, for, in fact, that would be in harmony with the true principle of self-government to let it be submitted to the will of the people, in every part. But, if we determine to submit it -as a whole, let us give the people the amplest opportunity to examine it. I shall vote for the latest day for the election. That will leave sufficient time for the canvass for the general election in November. Mr. CUMMINGS. Mr. Chairman: *i move to amend, by inserting "July," so that it will be "last Saturday in July."7 Mr. DEMENT. I rise to a questio~)f 451 1801 DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. AFAY 10, 1870. When they have received' all the light reflected from this committee, and settled all the matters of State fully, they can go into their fields, and cluster up the fruit of their labors. I do think, therefore, that the combi.uation of the wisdom of the committee, and of our own intelligence here, such as we have, there not being a great deal left, will adjust this matter in such a way as to give satisfaction to all parties. The CIIAIRMAN. The motion of the gentleman from Fulton [iNIr. Cummings] is not in order, the committee having already struck out July. Mr. CAMERON. Mr. Chairman: Since this object cannot be accomplished in committee, I move that the committee rise, so that we may fill the blank in the Convention. Mr. TINCHER. Mr. Chairman: It willnotbeinecessarytodothat. Wecan justpassoverthis for the present,and pass on the balance. Mr. CAMERON. Mr. Chairman: I will change my motion, and move we pass the date, simply leaving that to be filled in the Convention, and proceed to act on the balance of the sections. Mr. SEDGWICK. Mr. Chairman: I believe there is another motion pending before that-the motion of the gentleman from Carroll [Mr. Wagner]. The CHAIR414AN. The question is upon passing the date, in Committee of the Whole, and filling it in Convention. The motion was agreed to. Mr. ROSS. Mr. Chairman: I now move to insert after the word "corporatio.D," in the twelfth line, the article in relation to the judiciary, so that we can have an independent vote upon the adoption of the judiciary article. I have been apprehensive that some of the members of the Judiciary Committee would be anxious to attacli the report to the balance of the Constitution, in order to draw it through. I am afraid it will draw down the whole Constitution with its weight, and I would rather save good, portions of the Constitution we. have, made, than endanger the adoption of the whole of it by attaching to it the judiciary article. Therefore, I desire an independent vote by the people, upon the judiciary article, and I move the amendment to carry out to. Air. PEIRCE. Mr. Chairman: I move to strike out the ninth line of this section -the words tin relation to the removal of county seats." I do this because I think the proposition introduced a few mornings since, providing for an additional section, for separate submission, which contains a provision that county seats shall only be removed by a vote of three -fifths of the inhabitants, was adopted without proper consideration by the Convention-and it was again raising a question which was thought by the members to have been settled by our repeated ac-, tion. This section presents to my mind a very obnoxious feature, in that it requires that three-fifths of the population shall be required to decide upon a given question. To my mind, that proposition is not the settled desire of this Convention. It was adopted the other morning without due consideration, and referred to this com-. mittee. 18~2 COSIUIXLC-Y~TO ~sA carded, so far as the merits of the question are concerned. We have already in the legislative article provided that county seats shall not be removed, except under the provisions of general law; that the question shall not be voted upon oftener than once in ten years, and that no elector shall vote upon it who has not resided in the county for six months, and in the election precinct ninety days. What more do gentlemen want? Do they wish to put in a provision that county seats shall not be removed? If they do, then let them come up squarely and do it. But to submit to a separate vote a proposition like this, is not only dodging the question in the first instance, but is finally and irrevocably fixing county seats all over the State, at the points where they may be now. Be - tween those who do not care whether this three-fifths section is adopted or not, and those who want it adopted, it will be impossible for those who feel the injustice of the measure to bring enough strength to defeat it. I say, then, after we have passed so many restrictions, it is unwise, and seems unfair to put before the public a schenme by which the people will be induced to do a thing which we ourselves have decided ought not to b done. Mr. DEMENT. I wish to make a few remarks in relation to our proceedings on this subject. When this question was first adopted the voting was very close. There was a great difference of opinion as to whether the county seats should be removed or not, by a mere majority vote. A great diversity of opinion upon that point prevailed in the lobby as well as in the Convention. It is true that a question to submit an article separately was voted down by a small majority, but there were other restrictions in that proposition than are contained in the one now under consideration. The question as to whether a threefifths majority should be required to remove a county seat, is merely submitted to the people for their approval or rejection. It iswell known throughout the State that the people are restless on this subject; that they desire quietness and repose. It is also well known that where there is a very great necessity for the removal of the county seat, where the interest of the people is very much at stake, a three-fifths vote can be obtained in favor of doing so, and where it cannot be obtained it is thought by many better not to remove unless more than a majority can be obtained. In relation to the article adopted I would suggest only one change when perfect harmony will be produced if this separate article is adopted. It is proposed in section four to strike out "majority" and insert "three-fifths" in its place. If the people approve of the section thus changed, we have no right to complain. If they do not adopt it, certainly no harmoo can resultt Mr. GOODHUE. Mr. Chairman: We decided, again and again, by quite a large vote, that we would take no part between those in favor of making it more difficult to remove county seats, and those in favor of leaving the question substantially as it rests in the old Constitution, and it does not strike me we ought to depart from that rule. Subsequent to that time, we provided for a separate submission of the question as to whether it should require a three-fifths vote to remove county seats, and the gentleman from Lee [Mr. Dement], last upon the floor, stated that he could see no ground of complaint against a submission of this last proposition to the people. For my part, I believe I can see an objection to it. I can see that in those counties where t'feeling exists on this question-in counties where there are two hostile parties, each claiming what it conceives to be its own interests, we are, by submitting this question, even alone, taking a part in favor of those who are in favor of making it more difficult to remove county seats, because we are reinforcing the one party by those who are entirely indifferent, so far as their own sections are concerned. We are raising up a party to reinforce them all over this State, in those who are living about the county seats. It strikes me we ought not to adopt any such rule as this. We ought to leave this matter to the two contending factions without any sort of partiality for or against either. There are numerous instances in which it is important to remove county seats, where they should be moved, and where the interests of the people demand it. It seems to me there is no good substantial reason for submitting this restriction alone. If the people were allowed to vote upon the question whether county seats should be moved at all in any county, they would vote to establish their county seats beyond the power of moving them hereafter. Mr. CODY. Mr. President: It is possible that our minds have been made up upon this question, but if so, we may change again, and such change will be no greater than the one we made when we adopted this section the other day, which is much more objectionable than the one we had previously voted down. In the article upon counties we have already provided as follows: SEa. 4. No county seat shall be removed until the point to which it is proposed to be removed shall be fixed in pursuance of law, anda majority of the voters of the county, to be ascertained in such manner as shall be provided by general law, shall have voted in favor of its removal to such point; and no person shall vote on such question who has not resided in the county six months and in the election precinct ninety days next preceding such election. The question of the removal of a county seat shall not be oftcrier submttted than once in ten years to a vote of the people. Now, in the article upon counties, we have put all these restrictions upon this question, and when we went thus far in changing the present Constitution, we went just as far as the Convention could then be persuaded to go. Yet the other morning, when a portion of the members opposed to this proposition were absent from their seats, this proposition was voted through, in a hasty manner, without discussion, by a small majority. By this proposition, when it is proposed to move a county seat nearer the center of the county, geographically, a majority vote shall only be required. I believe this is far more objectionable than the section voted down by a decided ma3jority. Mr. Chairman, the gentleman from Madison [Mr. Springer] favors this proposition- the other gentleman from Madison [Mr. Billings] has passed away from earth. He represented Ad portion of the CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION Tur,,SDAY, 1802 I believe, to test the strength of that measure, I will move to strike, out the, ninth line entirely. I will say to meinbers that I have no personal interest in this matter whatever. The county that I came from has no county seat floht, and probably the county seat will never be removed, as no part of the county desires its removal-but the principle of the thing is what I object to. It is making an invidious distinction against one class of our population in favor of another. I think the majority should always control these matters, and if a measure is a proper measure to be submitted to the people, I think the voice of the majority should be accepted as the will of the peo.ple in that regard, and as a final settlement of the question. Mr. CAMERON. Mr. Chairman:-Before the vote is taken upon the motion of the gentleman from Grui-idy [,Mr. Peirce], I desire to call attention to the effect of this motion. It will make the article in relation to county seats a part of the Constitutioin. It prevents the separate submission of it. It has been adopted by the Convention on the condition that it be submitted separately. Mr. HAINES, of Lake. Mr. Chairmaa: This has already been adopted by the Convention. Mr. CAMERON. Mr.Chairman: I move that the vote be now taken. Mr. PEIRCE. Mr.'Chairman: I would like to say with reference to the point of -order raised'by th gentleman from Lake [Mr. Haines], that the ninth line of this section is -no part of the words adopted by this Convc-ntion. The words which I propose' to strike out here were not adopted by the Convention, but another section to wh3ch this line refers was adopted and referred to the committee. If we strike out these words in the ninth line, when the subject comes up in the Convention, we can strike out the section adopted heretofore by the Convention. I desire to move to strike out these words in the ninth line for the purpose, of testino, the strength of this couuty-seat section. 'Mr. WALL. Mr. Chairman: I do not understand that there is any objection to this Committee of the Whole passing upon any portion of this report. I believe it is true that on last Friday, the DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. e wishes and consciences to vote for that p- against which they have fought for so many years, and which they still believe a to be wrong. I hope it may be submitted t, separately, that those who object to it y may vote against it. Mr. WENDLING. Mr. Chairman: I e concur with all that my friend from s Schuyler [Alr. Fox] has said on this suby ject. Although I am well aware of the e fact that it matters little whether we vote down the article on suffrage or not, yet - for various reasons I want it submitted to 1 a separate vote. 7 I am a friend of portions of this Con stitution which we have framed. As far as I understand it, I like it pretty well, - and when I go home I will do what I can - to secure the ratification of those portions. But I want to tell this Convention very plainly, that whether they consider it wise or not, many people in central Illi nois will vote against this Constitution, unless it has the word "white" in it, and gentlemen may call this "prejudice" or .,old fogyism" or what they please. I say to those who want to secure-'-the adoption of this Constitution, that they ca,ennot hurt anything by submitting this article separately. Give these people who have these pre judices, whether they entertain them wisely or not, whether properly or not, an opportunity to vote against that article on suffrage if they choose so to do, and let * this Convention bear in mind that the "prejudice," if gentlemen choose to call it by that name, on this subject is so strong that if it is not submitted it will cost this Constitution, as a whole, not less than twenty-five thousand to fifty thousand votes. Now, that may not be right, it may not be proper, but that is what the result will be. We must take the inevi table as the inevitable, as gentlemen told us when they were talking about the fifteenth amendment. If we submit this article Iseparately, we will secure just so many more votes for the good part of the Constitution. I am not speaking my own sentiments alone. I am not saying what I alone would do. I am simply telling the Con vention what:will be done unless this ar ticle on suffrage is voted for separately. I hope, sir, that much of this work which has consumed so much time, and upon which se many of us have labored so earnestly, will be adopted by the people, and I hope that the article on suffrage will not be forced in with the rest of the Constitution, and thereby cost our work, as a whole, a great many more votes than we can gain by all our workinlg for it. Gentlemen who reside in the northern part of the State, where the current has been running along in one direction for the last eight or ten years, probably cannot realize or appreciate the force of the statements that wve of central and southern Illinois have made upon this floor. I honestly believe, sir, as truly as I am standing upon this floor at this moment, that one thousand people in any one of the counties of central Illinois, will vote against the Constitution, if-submitted as a whole, for that reason alo)ne. I do not say that it would be right or wrong. I do not say that ii would accomplish anything. I do not say that anythingwouild be effected by casting that vote. Call it prejudice; call it feeling; call it anything-it is a facts. ' are, as in the county of Macoupin, of th 1 most extravagant and costly kind, to pre 1 vent removal. - There is no injustice in requiring larger vote to remove it from the centre , and certainly none in having a majority w remove it to the centre. ,. The only objection which can be made to this proposition is, that a three-fifths vote is required to remove the county seat from the centre of the county. The three-fifths vote is, we are told, a violation of our theory of government, that majori ties should rule. We have not confined ourselves to the principle of the majority ruling. We require a two-thirds vote of the General Assembly to submit an amendment to the Constitution, a two thirds vote to pass a law over the Gover nor's veto, and a two-thirds vote of the people concerned to incorporate a town under the general law, so careful are we to protect and secure the rights and lib erties of the people, and make government settled and firm. But, aside from this, is it not right that the minority of the people of a county sqall be protected as well as the majority? This is not a question of political rights, but simply a questiom of convenience. It is better that a majority should sacrifice some little conveniences, than that a large minority should be deprived of all the advantages of courts conveniently located. I do not see that injustice can be done to any county by this proposition, if adopted, and it occurs to me the people can settle the matter much better than we are likely to do. I am willing to abide by their decision. I hope, therefore, that the motion will not prevail. [Here the hammer fell.] Mr. WAGNER. Mr. Chairman: Asm this question has been discussed until it is certainly fully understood, and well nigh exhausted, I think we can vote intelligently upon it without any more speeches. I move that we now proceed to vote. The motion was agreed to. The CHAIRMAN. Th- question is on the motion of the gentleman from Grundy [Mr. Peirce], who moves to strike out line ninth, consisting of the words "The section in relation to county seats." A division was ordered. The committee divided, when, there being twenty-three in the affirmative and twenty-eight in the negative, the motion was not agreed to. Mr. FOX. Mr. Chairman: I move to insert in the blank, in line seven, "the article which relates to suffrage." This is an important matter, and demands the serious consideration of this Convention. It may save many votes to this Constitution that would be otherwise thrown against it. Many people hold to the idea that this question of negro suffrage has been settled by the adoption of the fifteenth amendment. Perhaps it is true that nothing we can put in this Constitution can affect that right, but thousands in this State would not conscientiously go to the polls and vote that the sovereign State of Illinois should recognize that fact by their votes. They would, perhaps, make no opposition to a certain portion of our population being allowed to vote, under the laws of the United States, but they are unwilling so recognize by their votes the lawful ratification of the fifteenth amendment. It is repugnant to their I MAY 10, 1870. 1803 people of that county opposed to th principle to which I have referred, an scarcely had the echoes of his death knell ,died away in this hall, before the ques tion was sprung upon us-the previous ,question moved, and by a gag process, without debate, the principle he believed in, and which his people desired adopted, -and which was right, was violated and trampled under foot, and the people which he represented, wronged and treat,ed with injustice. While that is the case, the principle itself, here sought to be in serted in the Constitution, is wrong and unjust. It is also wrong to submit to the people of the whole State, a question in which nine-teiaths neither have or take any interest, and thus trample down the rights of a small portion of the State who look to us for protection. I hope the Convention will recede from its late action on this question, which was apparently hasty, and, as I think, wrong. Mr. SPRINGER. Mr. Chairman: I am not able to see wherein the peopl.e ,of this State, or any portion of it, are to be wronged or outraged by submitting this quest-kon to them for their approval or rejection. When the gentleman from DuPage [Mr. Cody] speaks of justice to the people of my county, I apprehend that I am as capable of judging of that question, and of knowing what interests are involved in their welfare as he is. I will say this much-Lever within my recollection has the question of the removal of a county seat been awitated in my county. The question whih has conceriaed us most has been that of dividing the county, not moving the county seat. We have settled the question of divid ing counties in a iiianner satisfactory to this Convention. Judge Billings, mylate distinguished colleague, took no part in the question of removin —- county seats. The section relating to ounty seats was adopted by a very small majority. The question was settled several times b a y very small majorit and as often the Convention has reversed its action. Rather than disturb the subject further, this section was drawn up, and it was decided to submit the whole matter to the people as a separate proposition, and let the qualified electors of the State settle it to suit themselves. 1804 COSTITUTIOAL COYINTIO TUESDAY, NEW CONSTITUTION TICKET. For the new Constitution, and for all the articles and sections which are not canceled with ink or pencil, on the following ticket; and against the new Constitution, and such articles and sections as are so canceled thereon, viz: For the new Constitution. For article entitled railroads. For article entitled warehouses. For article entitled counties. For Illinois Central railroad tax. For minority representation. For three-fifths vote to remove county seats. For prohibiting municipal subscriptions to Railroads or Private Corporations. The parts of said tickets which are not canceled by the electors shall be counted and returned by the judges of elections as cast for this Constitution, and for the articles and sections separately submitted, as aforesaid; but the parts of said tickets that are canceled shall be counted and returned as against such articles and sections as are thus separately submitted. Mr. HAYES. Mr. Chairman: I think the committee have made a mistake in the phraseology of the first part of this section. It is intended that this part of the section shall give the words which the tickets shall contain. Now the tickets to be cast against the new Constitu. T tion are thus described: "Against the new Constitution and such articles as are so canceled thereon." Those are to be the words on the tickets, and I think the committee have made a mistake. I propose to strike out after the word "Constitution" at the end of the second line, and insert so that it will read precisely like the first part, only reversed. The amendment will be to strike out the words in the fourth line and insert, And against all the articles and sections which are canceled with ink or pencil on the following ticket. If the amendment be adopted, the effect will be to provide that the affirmative ticket will read For the new C)nstitution, and for all the articles and sections which are not canceled with ink or pencil on the following ticket; And the negative ticket will read Against the new Constitution and against all the articles and sections which are can celed with ink'or pencil on the following ticket. Mr. MEDILL. I accept the amendment. The CHAIRMAN. Section eleven will be considered adopted. The Clerk read section twelve, as follows: SEC. 12. The returns of the whole vote cast, and of the votes tor the adoption or rejection of this Constitution, and for or against the articles and sections respectively submitted, shall be made by the several county a clerks, as is now provided by law, to the Secretary of State, within twenty days after the election; and the returns of the said votes shall, within five days thereafter, be examined and canvassed by the Auditor, Treasurer and Secretary of State, or any two of them, in the presence of the Governor, and proclamation shall be made by the Governor, forthwith, of the result of the canvass. Mr. MEDJLL. Asr. Chairman: I will say, before the vote is taken on this secti on, that, if the Convention is going to stand by its vote on section nine, it should insert the article in relation to "suffrage," after line eight of this section, 0 so a s to correspond with what we have done. We must either vote to put that in, or go back and strike the other out. Mr. WASHBURN. Mr. Chairman: I smove to insert the suffrage article be tween lines eight and nine, of section eleven. We cannot hurt anything, sir, by submitting that separately, and upon the other hand, we can receive a great many more votes for our Constitution than we would otherwise have. This Convention, I take it, cannot afford to throw away the chance of winning a few thousand votes upon any part of the Constitution. I have very great feeling upon this matter, as I have before said, and I hope that the committee will take into consideration this state of affairs which I represent here, and which I join with my friend from Schuyler [Mr. Fox) in urging upon this Convention. Mr. HAINES, of Lake. Mr. Chairman: If we are sensitive about the judg. ment of the people upon our work, and if we are sincere in the desire to carry this Constitution in the affirmative, from this time forward, we will make very short speeches. The people are becoming disgusted with the waste of money consequent upon making these long speeches, and I therefore move that the vote be now taken upon the amendment and section. A division was ordered. The committee divided, when, there being thirty in the affirmative and thirty in the negative The CHAIRMAN. The Chair will vote in the affirmative. [Applause]. So the amendment offered by Mr. Fox was agreed to. Mr. CROSS. Never mind; we will have the yeas and nays when we get in Convention. Mr. HAINES, of Lake. I think the gentleman from Bureau [rir. Whiting] was not counted. Mr. WENDLING. And I think the gentleman from Jersey [Mr. King] was not counted on this side. The CHAIRMAN. The Chair tried to count every gentleman, and gave a1l plenty time to rise. Mr. HART. I move to strike out in the fifth line, "the article ia relation to warehouses," and that that article be inserted in the body of the Constitution, to be submitted to the people. The CHAIRMAN. Did the Chair unederstand the gentleman from Lake [Mr. Haines] to move that the vote be taken on the section and the amendments? Mir. HAIN:ES, of Lake. Yes, sir. Section nine was agreed to. The CHAIRMAN. The question is upon section ten. The Clerk read section ten, as follows: SEC. 10. The Secretary of State shall, at least twenty days before said election, cause to be delivered to the several county clerks, blank poll-books, tally-lists, and form of return, and twice the number of properly prepared printed ballots for the said election that there are voters in such counties, the ex;pense whereof shall be audited and paid as other public printing ordered by the Secretary of State is, by law required to he audited and paid; and the several county clerks shall, at least five days before said election, cause to be distributed to the board of election, in each election district, in their respec tive counties, said blank poll-books, tally lists, and form of return, and tickets. Section ten was agreed to. The CHAIRMAN. The question is upon the adoption of section eleven. The Clerk read section eleven, as follows. SEC, 11. At the said election the ballots shall be in the following for~. Mr. HAINES, of Lake. Mr. Chairman: I mov e that th e vote be t aken now. The ques tion being upon the motion of Mr. Washburn, to insert "the suffrage article," between the eighth and ninth lines, A division was ordered. The committee divided, when, there being twenty-seven in the affirmative and thirty-one in the negative, the motion was not agreed to. Mr. CARY. Mr. Chairman: I move to strike out the seventh line. A division was ordered. The committee divided, when, there being fifteen in the affirmative and twen. ty-six in the negative, the motion to strike out the seventh line was not agreed to. The CHAIRMAN. The question is on the adoption of the section, and it will be considered adopted, unless objection is made. The Clerk will read the next section. The Clerk read section twelve, as follows: SEC. 12. The returns of the whole vote cast, and of the votes for the adoption or rejection of this Constitution, and for or against the articles and sections respectively submitted, shall be made by the several county clerks as now provided by law, to the Secretary of State, within twenty days after the election; and the returns of the said votes shall, within five days thereafter, be examined and canvassed by the Auditor, Treasurer and Secretary of State, or any two of them, in the presence of the Governor, and proclamation shall be made by the Governor, forthwith, of the result of the canvass. The CHAIRMAN. If not objected to, the section will be considered adopted. 'llhe Clerk will read the next session. The Clerk read section thirteen, as follows: SEc. 13. If it shall appear that a majority of all the votes polled are for the Constitution, it shall be the supreme law of the State of Illinois on and aftel' Monday, the 8th day of August A. D. 1870; but if it shall appear that a majority of the votes were not cast for said Constitution, it shall be null and void. If it shall further appear that a majority of the votes polled shall have been given for either of the articles and sections separately submitted, then such articles and sections receiving said majority of votes, shall form and constitute a part of the Constitution, and shall be substituted for those articles and sections of the Constitution with which they conflict, except the section relating to minority representation, which shall not be declared adopted unless this Constitution shall be adopted; and those articles and sections which shall not have received a majority of the votes cast, shall be null anld void. Mr. CAMERON. I move to amend, by striking out the "eighth of August." The blank canl be filled in1 Convention. I do it for the reason that we have not settled on the day on which the Constitutionl is to be submitted. We can fill the blank in the Convention. Mr. CARY. If we find it necessary to fixs another day in the Convention, we can then strike out "the eighth of August.'> I do not see the necessity of striking it out now. The m~otion of Mr. Cameron was not agreed to. The CHAIRMAN. The question is on the adoption of the section. It will be considered adopted, unless objection is made. The Clerk will read the next. The Clerk read section fourteen, as follows:. SleC. 14. Immediately after the adoption of this Constitution, the Governor and Secretary of State shall proceed to ascertain and fixs the. apportionment of the S3tae for members of t 8 e e d t 9 TUESDAY,l CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION 1804: MAY 10,1870. DEBATES AXD PROCEEDINGS. 1 805~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ vacancies, to the coroners, for the election of all the officers, the time of whose election is fixed by this Constitution or Schedule, and it shall be the duty of said sheriffs or coroners to give such notice of the time and place of said election as is now prescribed by law. Mr. BROWNING. Mr. Chairman: I move that the word "if" after the first word in the section be stricken out. The motion was agreed to. Section eighteen was agreed to. The Clerk read section nineteen, as follows: SEC. 19. All laws of the State of Ilinois, and all official writings, and the executive, legislative and judicial proceedings, shall be conducted, preserved and published in no other than the English language. Mr. MEDILL. Mr. Chairman: That section is copied from the present Constitution. Section nineteen was agreed to. The Clerk read section twenty, as follows: SEc. 20. Nothing in this Constitution shall prevent the General Assembly from passing such laws in relation to the apprenticeship of minors, during their minority, as may be necessary and prcper. Mr. MEDILL. Mr. Chairman: That section is also copied from- the present Constitution. i l Section twenty was agreed to. The Clerk read section twenty-one, as follows: SEC. 21. The General Assembly shall pass all laws necessary to carry into effect the provisions of this Constitution. Section twenty-one was agreed to. The Clerk read section twenty-two as follows: SEC. 22. The circuit clerks of the different counties having a population over sixty thousand shall continue to be recorders (ex officio) for their respective counties, under this Constitution, until otherwise provided by law. Mr. BENJAMIN. Mr. Chairman: I move to strike out the four last words, "otherwise provided by law," and insert, "the expiration of their present terms." Members will recollect we have a provision which separates the office of recorder from that of circuit clerk, in counties having a population over sixty thousand. Mr. CODY. Mr. Chairman: The provision to which the gentleman refers is in the county article, and reads thus: SEC. 8. In each county there shall be elected the following county officers: County judge sheriff, county clerk, clerk of the circuit court (who may be ex officie recorder of deeds, except in counties having sixty thousand and more inhabitants, in which counties a recorder of deeds shall be elected at the general election in 1872), treasurer, surveyor and coron e ry each of whom, etc. The section under consideratiQn (section twenty-two) might give the power of dividing these offices before the expiration of their present terms,which I suppose is not intended. p d w 1 y The CHAIRMAN. The question is on the amendment offered by the gentleman from McLean [Mr. Benjamin], to strike out the last four words and insert "until the expiration of their present terms." The amendment offered by Mr. Benjamio was agreed to. Mr. ELDREDGE. Mr. Chairman: I move to amend by striking rout sixty in the first line, and insert one hundred. The CHAIRMAN. The question is on the amendment offered by the gentleman from LaSalle [Mr. Eldredge].: The amendment~offered by Mr. Eldredge was not agreed to. - b the first house of representatives under this Constitution. The apportionment shall be based upon the federal census of the year A. D. 1870, of the State of Illinois, and shall be made strictly in accordance with the rules and principles announced in the article on the legislative department of this Constitution: .Provided, that in case the federal census aforesaid cannot be ascertained prior to Friday, the 23d of September, A.D. 1870, then the said apportionment shall be based on the State census of the year A. D. 1865, in accordance with th e rules and pr inciples a foresaid. The Governor shall, on or before Wednesday the 28th of September, A. D. 1870, make official announcement of the s aid apportionment' under t he gre at seal of t he State; andcopies thereof, duly certified, shall be forthwith transmitted by the Secretary of State to each county clerk for distribution. Mr. CODY. I move that we fill the blank with " 100." The motion of Mr. Cody was agreed to. Mr. MEDILL. "100" was first agreed upon by the committee, but afterwards stricken out, to give the Convention an opportunity of filling the blank. The CHAIRMAN. The section is adopted. The Clerk will read the next section. The Clerk read section fifteen, as follows: SEC. 15. The districts shall be regularly numbered by the Secretary of State commencing with Alexander county as No. 1, and proceeding thence northwardly through the State, and terminating with the county of Cook; but no county shall be numbered as more than one district, except the county of Cook, which shall constitute three districts, each embracing the territory contained in the now existing representative districts of said county. And on the Tuesday after the first Monday in November, A. D., 1870, the members of the first house of representatives under this Constitution shall be elected according to the apportionment fixed and'announced as aforesaid, and shall hold their offices for two years and until their successors shall be elected and qualified. Section fifteen was agreed to. The Clerk read section sixteen, as follows: SEC. 16. The senate, at its first session under this Constitution, shall consist of fifty members, to be chosen as follows: At the general election held on the first Tuesday after the first Monday of November, A. D., 1870, two senators shall be elected in districts where the term of senators expire on the first Monday of January, A. D., 1871, or where there shall be a vacancy, and in the remaining districts one senator shall be elected. Senators so elected shall hold their office two years. Mr. MEDILL. Mr. Chairman: I would say that this section was originally in the legislative article, but as it was of but temporary duration, the Committee upon Revision and Adjustment handed it over to the Committee on Schedule. Mr. FOX. -Mr. -Chairman: It would make the section more definite if we insert in the third line the words "present senatorial." I make that motion. The motion was not agreed to. Section sixteen was agreed to. The Clerk read section seventeen, as follows: SEC. 17. The General Assembly, at is first -sessionl held after the adoption of this Constitution, shall proceed to apportion the State for members of the senate and house of representatives, in accordance with the provisions of the article on the legislative depart~ment. Section seventeen was agreed to. The Clerk read section eighteen, as follows: SEC. 18. When, if this Constitution shall be ratified by the people, the Governor shall forthwitlh, after having ascertained the fact, issue writs of election to the sheriffs of the several counties of this State} or in cas!of 452 DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1805 MAY 10, 1870. The CHAIRMAN. The section as amended will be declarer adopted. The Clerk wi 11 read the twenty-third section. The Clerk read section twenty-th,-ee, as follows: Simc. 23. The judges of all courts of record in Cook county shall receive the compe,asation nowprovided bl, law until the adjournment of the first session of the General Assembly after the adoption of this Constitutioia. Mr. BENJA,MIN. Mr. Chairman: I move to strike out the words, 11 in Cook countv." Mr. HAYES. Mr. Chairman: I would ask the gentleman if we have not adopted a provision that no act shall take effect u.-itil July followidg the session of the General -Assembly? If that is so, these' ofli6er's" would have no compeusa Ition, unless the Legislature should sit until July. Mr. BENJAMIN. Mr. Chairman: I simply make the motion to strike out the words "Cook county' Mr. HAYES. IMr. Chairman: I then ask the chairman of the committee if the (.)fficers would not be without compensation? Mr. FOX. I hope this Convention will not recognize the principle here i -nvolved. If we adopt this section to r Iead, "all courts of record," it will include the circuit judges. It is already provided that circuit iud-aes receive $3,000 per annum. I see n; nessity for this section at all, unless there are others than circuit iudlyes to be included. I am not willing to pay circuit'judges in Chicago more than'in other parts of the State. Mr.-'WELLS. Mr. Chairman: The objection urged by the gentleman from Cook [Mr., H,-,yes] to the motion is, that there is a provision in the legislative articl(,, that no law shall take effect until the flrst of July, after the adjournment of the Legislature. That clause of that section is7as follows: And no act of the General Assembly shall take'efect until the first dO'y of July next after the passage thereof, unless, in case of emergency, the General Assembly shall, by a vote of to-thirds of all the members elected to each house, otherwise direct; which emergency shall be expressed in the preamble or body of the act. The General Assembly can make it take effect. I call the attention of the gentleman to that clause. Mr. UNDERWOOD. Mr. Chairman: We have already provided in the itidiciary article that the supreme and circuit judges sb all be paid a salary out of the State trea,3ury-the supreme judges $4,000 a nd the circuit judges $3,000. If we strike out Oook cou-ntv, is it the intention of the gentleman to'give the circuit j udge s docket fees, as now provided bylaw, and $1,000 by appropltiation fo r reporting defects in statutes? TheCHIRMAN. Thequestion'ison, ,the motion of the gentleman from MCLeall [Mr. Bei)jamin]., A division was ordered. The' committee divided, when, there beidg twenty-three in the affirmativeand fourteen in the nogative. the motion was agreed to. Mr. SEDGWICK. Mr. Chairman: move to strike out section twenty-three. Mr. ANTHONY.' Mr. Chairman: I desire to explain this'Matter There is no ojectioi! to strikiii out Cook county, but if the'entir6 section is- stricke-r- out CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION three thousand dollars per annum. That, of course, includes the circuit and superior judges of Cook county. If we retain this section, we provide for two compensations. Are the judges to receive both? If not both, which are they'to receive? We will be just in that predicament. Probably, they would be entitled to receive both their salaries of three thousand dollars and the compensation now provided by law. If not both, who is to determine which? Mr. HITCHCOCK. Mr. Chairman: I desire that the committee should not act under any misapprehension as to what the facts are in regard to this question. If it should do so it would be doing a great injustice to the five gentlemen who sit upon the bench of the circuit and superior courts of Cook county. The twenty-fifth section of the judiciary article provides — SEC. 25. The judges of the superior and circuit courts and State's attorney in said county shall receive the same salaries, payable out of the State treasury, as is or may be paid from said treasury to the circuit judges and State's attorneys of the State, and such further compensation, to be paid by the county of Cook, as is or may be provided by law: such compensation shall not be changed during their continuance in office. Now, the judge of the circuit court of Cook county receives from the State treasury one thousand dollars as his salary, and receives one thousand dollars under the statute providing compensation for suggestions to the General Assembly in regard to the revision of the laws. He receives no compensation under any law of the State, payable out of the treasury of the county of Cook. There is no law by which there is one dollar added to the salary from the treasury of Cook county. He receives a considerable compensation by way of docket fees, in addition to the two thousand dollars. The judges of the superior court receive from the State treasury, one thousand dollars each. They receive not a single dollar under any law of this State, from the treasury of Cook county. Now, if we leave the provision contained in section twenty-five, and dismiss the subject, those gentlemen occupying seats upon the bench in that county will be reduced from an income of seven thousand five hundred dollars, or thereabouts,, which they now receive from docket fees, in connection with the small salary from the treasury, of about two thousand dollars to the circuit judge, and one thousand dollars to the superior court judges, to the compensation provided for circuit judges in the State at large. This committee have no intention to do any injustice to them. This section, o k reported, provides that the judges of all courts of record in Cook county shall receive the compensation now provided by law, until the adjournment of the first session of the General Assembly, after the adoption of this Constitution, is simply intended to continue the compensat ion now provided by law, until the General Assembly shall have an opportunity to act upon this question. We ask gentlemen to do by the judic iary only what they have done by the office-holders of Cook county. We ask them only to do by the judges of Cook county what they say they will do by the judges? clerks. That is all. Having cono tinued the emoluments, enormous as they are, of the clerks of the superior and cir the judges of the supreme cour t wi ll receive nothing whatever, for there is no other provision in the judiciary article, or anywh ere else, f or t heir pay. There is no objection to striking out Cook county. It will leave the salaries of the judges precisely as now, until changed by law. Mr. FOX. Does not the judiciary article provide that the judges of the superior and recorder's courts shall all be circuit judges? Mr. ANTHONY. No, sir. No provision is made whatever for the pay of t[ie judges of the superior court in the interim between the adoption of this Con stitution and the meeting of the General Assembly. Mr. MEDILL (in his seat). Until it adjourns. Mr. ANTHONY. Yes; until it adjourns. Mr. RICE. Mr. Chairman: If this section is not stricken out it will interfere with the sections adopted in the judiciary article, and what I understand to be the sense of the Convention. The sixteenth section provides: SEc. 16. From and after the adoption of this Constitution, judges of the circuit courts shall receive a salary of three thousand dollars per annum, payable quarterly, until otherwise provided by law. The twenty-fifth section, in relation to Cook county, provides: SEC. 25. The judges of the superior and circuit courts and the State's attorney in said county shall receive the same salaries, payable out of the State treasury, as is or may be paid from said treasury to the circuit judges and State's attorneys of the State, and such further compensation, to be paid by the county of Cook, as is or may be provided by law. Unless the section is stricken out, we shall fail to accomplish a result that I understood was definitely settled by full discussion in this Convention. Mr. BROWNING. Mr. Chairman: If this section is adopted, there will be two provisions in the Constitution for the payment of judges. It is already provid ed, I think, that the judges of the circuit court and the superior court shall be up on the same footing with the other cir cuit judges of the State. .lr. ANTHONY. Mr. Chairman: I would say to the gentleman that there is not a word in the Constitution in regard to the compensation of the superior judges of Cook county. ~r. BROWNING. Is it not provided that they shall receive the same compensation as circuit judges? Mr. ANTHONY. There isnothing said about their receiving compensation during the times after the adoption of this Constitution, etc. Mr. BROWNING. I think it is pro vided that they shall receive the same comnpensation as circuit judges. Or, if it is nlot so, it can easily be provided for. Since my attention has been called to this section, I will read it. It is as follows: Sac. 25. The Judges of the superior and circuit courts and the State's attorney in said county shall receive the same salaries, payable out of the State treasury, as is or may be paid from said treasury to the circtit judges and 8tatc's attorneys of the State, and such further compensation, to be paid by the county of Cook, as is or may be provided by law, such compensation shall not be changed during their continuanef in office. Then there is another provision, that until otherwise provided by law, the cir cuit judges of the Stare shall receive cuits cou r ts of Cook county, we ask yot to make the same provision for the judges. It is not possible that any law. yer would give a construction to these two sections, taken together, that would give the judges double compensation. If it is possible that such a construction can be given to it, no member of the Cook county delegation will object to any such revision as shall free the section absolutely from doubt. Mr. BROWNING. Which compensation, then, shall they receive, if they do not receive both? Mr. HITCHCOCK. The compensation provided in section twenty three. The twenty-fifth section was framed for the simple purpose of enabling them to get an additional compensation from the treasury of Cook county whenever the General Assembly should provide. It was supposed that the General Assembly would not be willing to give from the State treasury a larger compensation to the judges of Cook county than to the judges outside of Cook county; therefore, section twenty-five provides that these judges shall take from the State treasury the same compensation as other judges; that the General Assembly may provide for a further compensation out of the treasury of Cook county. We supposed, when we drafted it and took upon our selves this increased compensation, in or der that we might get the best men upon the bench, that we were relieving the State treasury, that we were assuming a burden. Now, until the General Assem bly shall act and provide that increased compensation from the treasury of Cook county, we simply, by the twenty-third section, prescribe that the existing law providing for docket fees shall furnish the judges with the present compensa tion precisely, as a large majority of the members of this Convention have deter mined that their clerks shall be compen sated. Mr. TURNER. If there is any doubt upon this question at all, it can, either by the Committee on Revision or by the Convention, be set at rest. I understand the members from Cook county ask that their judges shall be paid just what they are now paid-nothing more, nothing less-until the General Assembly shall make other provisions. Now, it is true the judges in Cook county are receiving larger pay in salaries and fees than other judges in the State, but their compensation is paid partly by the State and partly by way of fees. But after the adoption of this Constitution, the General Asscm. bly is to piovide that a portion of their salaries shall be paid out of the treasury of Cook county. Until there has been legislative action on the subject, they will only get the salary paid by the State. In order to effectually remove all doubt upon the subject, the section should be amended so as to read "that the judges of eli the courts of Cook county shall, in lieu of the compensation provided in this Constitution," etc. I think the gentlemen from Cook coJunty will be satisfied with such an amendment. Mr. HITCHCOCK. Certainlyr. The CHAIRMAN. The question is upon striking out. The motion of Mr. Sedgwick to strikeout was not agreed to. The CHAIRMAN. The question is ups on the motion of thetgentleman from 1806 Tu.,88DA-T) MAY 10, 1870, DEBATES AD PROCiEDIGS 1807 Now we are asked to make this exception in favor of Cook county. Will the Con' vention go back on its record? r Mr. VANDEVENTER. The gentle man is slightly mistaken. This does not apply to Cook county, alone, but to all the counties in the State. As this question has beenr. thoroughly discussed, I mo-e the vote be now taken. The motion of Mr. Vandeventer was agreed to. The CHAIRMANT. The question recurs on the amendment of the gentleman from Stephenson [Mr. Turner]. The Clerk read the amendment offered by Mr. Turner, as follows: Insert after the word "shall," in the first line, the following: "In lieu of any salary provided for in this Constitution." Mr. LFOX. I rise for information from the gentleman from Brown [Mr. Vande venter]. The CHAIRMAN. The vote has been ordered, and no remarks are in order. The question is now on the adoption of the amendment. The amendment offered by Mr. Turner was agreed to. The CHAIRMAN. The question now recurs on the adoption of the section. Section twenty -three, as amended, was agreed to. The CHAIRMAN. The Clerk will read the next section. The Clerk read section twenty-four, as follows: SEC. 24. All lands which have beengranted as a "common" to the inhabitants of any town, hamlet, village or corporation, by any person, body politic or corporate, or by any government having power to make such grant, shall forever remain common to the inhabitants of such town, hamlet, village or corporation; but the said commons, or any of them, or any part thereof, may be divided, leased or granted, in such manlier as may hereafter be provided by law, on petition of a majority of the qualified voters interested in such commons or any of them. This section is hereby adopted as a part of the Constitution of this State, without being submitted to be voted upon by the people. Mr. WAGNER. I move to strike out all after "them," in the seventh line —the enacting clause. I do not see the necessity of making this exception. Mr. UNDERWOOD. This section is taken from the present Constitution, but though we have taken a good many things from the Constitution, we have not added these words to them. So far as this clause is concerned, putting it in the schedule will make it a part of the Constitution if adopted. if it is not adopted, the old Constitution will stand any way. This seems to convey the idea that we are forcing the section on the people, and the language is neither necessary nor proper. Mr. MEDILL. The section under consideration is article eleven in the present Constitution, and we reduce it right down to the form of a section simply, and ii ncorporate it' verbatim et literatim. The Convention can do just as it pleases with it. Mr. UNDERWOOD. I would suggest there is something added to this section that is not in the old Constitution. The tword "granted," I think, is not in the old Constitution. That, however, is not objectionable, but I think that part of this section which relates to not submitting it to a vote of the people should be stricken out. Mr. CHURCH. Mr. Chairman: I hope that portion of the section relating to not; Stephensen [Mr. Turner], which is t o in sert in lieu of "any salary herein provid ed," the following, after the word "shall" in the first line: " In lieu of any salary provided for in this Constitution." Mr. BENJAMIN. Mr. Chairman: I move a reconsideration of the vote by which we struck out the words "in Cook county." Mr. HITCHCOCK. Mr. Chairman: I desire to say i?) regard to this question of reconsideration in Committee of the Whole, that while it is settled by all the books upon parliamentary law and prac tice that the Committee of the Whole cannot reconsider, and that the Chairman is right in his ruling to that effect, yet from the opening of the session, it has been the practice to reconsider in Com mittee of the Whole, and upon the whole, that practice has been found not inconvenient, and I think that the Convention has established the rule that a reconsideration may be effected in Committee of the Whole. Mr. TINCHER. Mr. Chairman: I hope that they may reinsert those words by unanimous consent. The CHAIRMAN. If there is no objection, the words will be reinserted. Mr. TURNER. Mr. Chairman: My amendment is Mr. ANTHONY. Mr. Chairman: I put it to the gentleman from Stephenson [Mr. Turner], that that is exactly right as it stands. Mr. FOX. Mr. Chairman: I merely wish to say one word in relation to this matter. I certainly entertain no hostility to Cook county. I have had no occasion to -make any speech against the special legislation that has been inaugurated in this Constitution, but I do wish that this Convention should preserve a consistent record, and I ask if it can, when adopting this provision, do that? We refused to vote a compensation recognizing the validity of that " infamous docket fee," as I believe it was-termed, or as the learned gentleman from St. Clair [Mr. Snyder] so justly termed it, that "spawn of perjury." Are we not, by passing this provision, recognizing a law that gives this docket fee? Mr. ANTHONY. Mr. Chairman: Will the gentleman refer the Convention to any provision that has yet been made for the payment of the judges of the superior court of Cook county, in case of the adop. tion of this Constitution, until the General Assembly meets? Mir. FOX. Mr. Chairman: I think the gentlemana, as a lawyer, will concede that the two sections read by the gentletiemsan from Adams [Mr. Browning], and also the gentlemnan from Montgomery [Mr. Rice], construed together, place the judges of the superior court of Chicago upon the same footing with judges of the circuit court of the State. It reads that after the adoption of this Constitution, circuit judges shall receive $3,000 compensation; and it seems to me that covers the whole ground.~ I ask this Convention why make this exception in favor C(f Cook county? why they are willing to recognize this "docket fee' in Cook county and refuse to recognize it throughout the State? I want to see a consistent record. I know that when this question was up before, when it was proposed to allow the supreme or circuit judges their fees, as now allo,wed by law, it was indignantly voted &own. tsubmitti ng t he sect ion to a vot e of the people will be stricken out. I hope nothing will be done by this Convention lby which the power will be claimed to make a Constitution, or any part of it, without submitting it to a vote of the people. There should be no question hereafter as to whether the people should be consulted in the framing of the or ganic law. It will, doubtless, be remembered that in the debate at the opening of this Con vention, the right to frame a Constitution, and put it in force without submission, was claimed on one side and denied on the other side. It was then considered that a section similar to this, in our pres ent!Constitution, was a proof of the former position. I hope, sir, that we shall leave no such precedent, but that the clause will be omitted. Mr. BENJAMIN. Mr. Chairman: Since the remarks of the various gentle men, in justice to the Committee upon Schedule, I would say that I do not think it was the intention of any member of the committee that this last clause should be transferred into this article. It was a mere oversight in transcribing. Mr. UNDERWOOD. Mr. Chairman: I believe the people of my section would like to have this whole section stricken out. I therefore move to strike it out. The motion of Mr. Underwood, to strike out section twernty-four, was not agreed to. The CHAIRMAN. The question re curs upon the proposition of the gentleman from Carroll [Mlr. Wagner] to strike out the latter part of the section. The amendment offered by Mr. Wagner was agreed to. The CHAIRMAN. The question is upon the adoption of the section as amended. A division was ordered. The Convention divided, when, there being twentv in theafflirmative and nineteen in the negative, section twenty-four as amended was agreed to, The CHAIRMAN. The Clerk will read section twenty-five. The Clerk read section twenty-five, as follows: SEc. 25. That the county of Lake shall remain unattached to any judicial circuit until action by the General Assembly. The Governor shall appoint some suitable person, who shall be an elector of said county, as iudge of the circuit court thereof for the time being, who shall possess all the powers of a judge of the circ~uit court. Mr. M,^cDOWELL. Mr. Chairman: I wvould like to have an explanation. Mr. HAINES, of Lake. Mr. Chairman: B1y the judiciary article, the county of Lake, which was formerly attached to Cook county, forming the seventh circuit, has been detached, and has riojudge fox holding a court. We wishl to have it left for the General Assembly to attach. Mr. BROMWELL. Str. Chairman: I would inquire if it would not remain as it is anyhow? Or. HAINES, of Lake. We would have no court, Mr. Chairman. Mr. ROSES. Mr. Chairman: Is there anything requiring that provision should ever be made by the General Assembly?P Mr. HAINES, of Lake. Mr. Chairman: It says "sfor the time being." It is only a temporary provision. Mr. CARY. Mr. Chairman- If the Convention has power to detach,4 it certainly has power to attach, and ~he ad MAY 10) 1870, DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1807 1808~~~~~~~ COSI TOA O-ETOiTEDY upon the amendment offered by the gentl eman from Coles [Mr. Bromwell], to strike out all after the eighth line. The motion was not agreed to. The CHAIRMAN. The question is upon the amendment offered by the gentleman from Vermilion [Mr. Tinc her] to strike out all after the word "authority," in the sixth line, down to the word "whatever," in the eighth line. The amendment was not agreed to. Section twenty-six was agreed to. The Clerk read section twenty-seven, as follows: SEC. 27. No county, city, town, township or other municipality, shall ever become subscriber to the capital stock of any railroad or private corporation, or make donation to, or loan its credit in aid of, such corporation: Provided, however, that the adoption of this article shall not be construed as affecting the right of any such municipality to make such subscriptions where the same have been authorized, under existing laws, by a vote of the people of such municipalities prior to such adoption. This section shall be submitted separately to the electors of this State, and if it shall appear that a majority of the votes cast are for prohibiting such subscriptions to railroads and private corporations, then said section shall be a part of the Constitution of this State; but if it shall otherwise appear, then this section shall be null and void. Mr. HAINES, of Lake. Mr. Chairman: Section twenty-seven has been adopted by this Convention, and is not under con sideration. All these sections have been adopted substantially by the Convention. I therefore move that the committee now rise, and report the article back to the Convention. The motion was not agreed to. Section twenty-seven was agreed to. The Clerk read section twenty-eight, as follows: SEC. 28. The house of representatives shall consist of three times the number of the members of the senate, and the term of office shall be two years. Three representatives shall be elected in each senatorial district, at the general election in the year A. D. 1872, and every two years thereafter. In all elections of representatives aforesaid, each qualified voter may cast as many votes for one candi date as there are representatives to be elected, or may distribute the same, or equal parts thereof, among the candidates, as he shall see fit; and the candidates highest in votes shall be declared elected. This section shall be submitted separately to the electors of this State; and if it shall appear that a majority of the votes cast are "for minority representation," as provided for in said section, then said section shall be a part of this Co~nstitution, and shall be substi tuted for sections seven and eight of the arti cle on the legislative department; but if it shall otherwise appear, then this section shall be null and void. Mr. WAIT. Mr. Chairman: I move to strike out the section. The motion was not agreed to. Section twenty-eight was agreed to. The Clerk read section twenty-nine, as bfollows: sSc. 29. At the time the amendments to the Constitution, prepared by this Conven tion, are submitted to a vote of the electors of the State, the following proposition shall be submitted to be voted upon as a separate proposition: i "For a three-fifths vote to remove a county seat." "Acegainst a three.fifths vote to remove a county seat." If a majority of the votes cast at such elec tion shall be for a three-fifths vote to remove a county seat, then the words "a majority" t shall be stricken out of section four of the article on counties, and the words "three fifth s" shall be inserted in -lieu thereof, and the following words shall be added to said section, to wit: "But when an attempt is made to remove a county seat to a point nearer to the centre of the county, then a majority vote only shall be necessary." And in case this Constitution shall be rejected by the electors at said election, then said section four shall become a part of the Constitution of 1848, in place of section five, article seven, on counties; but if the foregoing proposition shall not receive a majority of the votes, as aforesaid, then the same shall have no effect whatever. Mr. PEIRCE. Mr. Chairman: I move to strike out the section. The motion was not agreed to. Mr. CODY. I move to amend the sec. tion, by inserting, in the tenth line, "centre of population of the county." The motion was not agreed to. Section twenty-nine was agreed to. The Clerk read section thirty, as follows: SEc. 30. The legislation in regard to parks in Chicago may be amended by special law. Mr. MEDILL. I move to strike that section out. The motion was agreed to. The CHAIRMAN. The question is upon the adoption of section thirty one. The Clerk read section thirty-one, as follows: SE.c. 31. When this Constitution shall be adopted and take effect as the supreme law of the State of Illinois. the two-mill tax pro vided to be annually assessed and collected upon each one dollar's worth of taxable prop erty, in addition to all other taxes, as set forth in article fifteen of the now existing Consti tution, shall cease to be assessed or collected and said article shall thereafter be null and void. j o nining circuit is quite small. If this sec tion is not stricken out, I think it will be best to amend, so as to a ttach L,ake c o unty to the circuit com posed of the counties of Boone, McHenry and DeKalb. Mr. RICE. Mr. Chairman: I move to strike out section twenty-five. A division was ordered. The commit te e divid ed, wh en, th ere be ing twenty-seven in the affirmative and twenty in the negative, the motion was agreed to. So section twenty-five was struck ont. The CHAIRMAN. The Clerk will read section twenty-six. The Clerk read section twenty-six, as follows: SEC. 26. No contract, obligation or liability whatever of the Illinois Central railroad company to pay any money into the State treasu ry, nor any lien of the State upon, or right to tax property of said company, in accordance with the provisions of the charter of said com pany, approved February 10, 1851, shall ever be released, suspended, modified, altered, re mitted, or in any way or manner diminished or impaired by legislative or other authority; and all moneys derived from said company, after the payment of the State debt, shall be appropriated and set apart for the payment of the ordinary expenses of the State govern ment, and for no other purpose whatever. This section shall be submitted separately to the electors of this State, and if it shall ap pear that a majority of the votes cast are for said section, then it shall be a part of this Constitution; but if it shall otherwise appear then this section shall be null and void. Mr. TINCHER. I move to strike out all after "authority," in line six, to "what ever," in line eight. Mr. HAINES, of Lake. Mr. Chairman: I rise to a point of order. This section, with the succeeding sections, was adopted by the Convention, and th's committee cannot strike out. Mr. MEDILL. This section was adopt ed by the Convention, and ordered to be submitted to the people separately, in such form as the Schedule Committee should provide. Of course we had to incorporate it in the schedule, so as to show the mode of providing for its sub mission. Mr. BROMWELL. Mr. Chairman: We have a previous section providing for submitting divers articles separately. Why cannot this article be there men tioned-not incorporated in the schedule, in this way. Mr. GAMBLE. Mr. Chairman: If the gentleman fronm Poles [Mr. Bromwell] will just turn back to that section, he will see that this matter is there pro~vid ed for. It is enumerated with the others. Mr. BROMWELL. it is enumerated, before. I see no need of it here. I move to strike out all that portion of the sec tion relating to the submission to the people separately. Mr. CODY. The gentlemanis labor ing under a misapprehension, and I do: not know that there is any reason to be: surprised at it, because- this section might: be arranged in close order} so-as to be easier understood. The ninth section provides that certain sections shall be; submitted separately, and in the eleventh section we have the ticket. iThis section provides that if the section is separately submitted, and the balance shall be re jeered, this may be adopted. Mr. BROMiW~ELL. I see no need of that in regard to one particular section. The schedule is adopted as much as any other part of the Constitution' The CHAIRMAN. Th question is Mr. HAY. As I understood the chair-e man of the Finance Committee on yesterday, the intention of the Finance Commit. tee was that the two-mill tax for this year should be collected. Mr. ROSS. Yes, sir. MIr. HAY. I would call the attention of the committee, then, to the fact that, at the time of the adoption of this Constitution, although the tax may have been assessed, it will not be collected, and the words "assessed or collected" will stop the collection of the taxes of the present year, would it not? Mr. MEDILL. The gentleman has an incorrect copy of the report. It reads "assessed and collected." Mr. H,AY. If that is the case, I see no objection to it. Mr. CHURCH. I desire to inquire of the gentleman from Sangamon [Mr. Hay] whether there will remain any necessity for an additional two-mill tax to be col lected, after the adoption of this Consti tution? It will be assessed before that time; but my view is that the necessities of the State will not require the collec tion of it, and should it be assessed at that time, it may very easily be remitted by the clerks, by omitting to extend it or by col lectors not collecting-it. Mr. HAY. Mr. Chairman: That is a matter the Revenue Committee made no inquiry about, upon the supposition that it was under the charge of the Finance Committee. .Nr. ROSS. Mr. Chairman: The infor mation the committee derived upon that subject was that there was a little over $5,000,000 of State -debt, and that the taxes collected this year would pay a lit tle over $3,000,000, that the proceeds of the railroads would pay the balance of it, and that it was not necessary to collect the two- mil tax beyond the present year. 1808 -CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION TURSDAT, MAY 10, 1870. DIBATES AND PROOEEDIGS. 1809 - down, so that the people there should a have the defects in their judiciary system s supplied and obviated, whether Cook f county rolled up a large majority against the Constitution or a large one for it. They would thus accomplish their object in any event, whilst the people of the WState, as to the ir general J udicial system, would have no such advantage or oppors tunity for relief. t By what right or on what- ground is it asked that Cook county shall have all the defects of her judicial system remedied by our action here, and her judges incllreased and put in office to draw their salaries from the State treasury, while the people of the State are not to enjoy these same advantages? Are we to to on inl this special and unequal way provi di ng for sCook county? She will have nothing to gain in having this Constitution adopted ; in this regard, if she can have the number of judges she wants, and all the defects in her judiciary system remedied, notwithstanding the defeat of the Consti tution, I am in favor of making the people in Cook countv interested in the adoption of the Constitution in just the same man ner as the people of other counties are to he interested in its adoption. There isno possible reason for the omission of those words at the end of section seven, in the latter end of section eight, other than the one I have charged. It is time that this sort of special leg islation or special Constitution-making should cease. It will be claimed if these judges are elected under this provision in section eight, that they are rightfully and legallv elected, and are entitled to be commissioned and qualified, though the Constitution be rejected. It will be in sisted that we have put into force that part of the Constitution without refer ence to its ratification by the people. Mr. MEDILL. Mr. Chairman: I asked the gentleman from Morgan [Mr. Atkins], shortly after he rose, that he might save his speech, the time of the Convention, and the exhibition of ill-feeling against; Cook county, to move an amendment to) cover the point of his objection. The gentleman from McLean [Mr. Benjamin] proposed section seven in com mittee, and it was adopted as drawn. Section eight was drawn by myself from the judiciary article. I was obliged to make this provision for the election of judges in Cook county, in compliance with the judiciary article, and it did not occur to me when writing it, that it was necessary to add those words inz the last part of section seven, unatil my attention was called to it. Mr. ATKINS. Mr. Chairman: I made use of no abusive language against Cook county in my remarks, and when the gentleman fronm Cook [Mr. Mledill] applies that language to them, he does not know or realize what he is talking about. Mr. TURNER. Mr. Chairman: I offer. the followi~ng amendme-nt, to be placed at the latter clause of section eight: If, upon canvassing the votes~ for and against the adoption of this Constitution, it shall appear that there has been polled a greater number of votes against than for it, then no certificate of election shall be issued for any of said judges. The CHAIRMAN. The question is upon the amendment to section seven. The Clerk read the amendment offered by ]~lr. Washburn, as follows: election shall be held for judges of the su preme court in the second, third, sixth and seventh judicial districts designated in this Constitution, at which election every person entitled to vote according to the terms ot - this Constitution, shall be allowed to vote and the election shall be otherwise conducted returnsfmade and certificates issued, in accord ance with the laws now existing for the elec tion of supreme judges. If, upon canvassing the votes for and against the adoption of this Constitution, it shall appear that there has been polled a greater number of votes against than for it, then no certificates of election shall be issued for any of said judges. Mr. WASHBURN I would like to call the attention of members of the Con vention to what seem to be some incon gruities between section seven and eight. Whether they are designed or accidental, I do not know. Perhaps some gentleman of the committee can inform me. We propose, by section seven, to elect judges, and commission them, if the Con stitution should be adopted, and withhold them if not adopted. In section eight there is no such provision. The judges by that section are to be judges whether the people adopt or reject the Constitu tion. There is another thing that I do not exactly understand. Section eight pro. vides for the election of the judges of the circuit court in the county of Cook, yet the voters are not permitted to vote for more than two persons. Now, I do not see just how they are to make three judges of two men. I would like tohave an explanation of all these things. The CHAIRMAN. The Clerk informs me there is an amendment already to the section. The amendment of the gentleman from Williamson [Mr. Washburn] will be read. The Clerk read the amendment offered by Mr. Washburn, as follows: Strike out "this," in the fourth line, and insert "the existing." Mr. ATKINS. The gentleman from Williamson [Mr. Washburn] has called attention to the st ri king difference between sections seven and eight. It is provided in section seven that the judges of the supreme court, who may be elected, shall not be qualified or commissioned unless the Constitution shall be ratified by the people. That is applied to a case where, by common consent, the interest of the people of the whole State require an increased number of judges. * In section eight, applicable to the county of Cook, it is provided that the circuit judges shall be elected there on the day of voting upon this Constitution. It is provided furthermore, that they shall hold their offices whether the Constitution is adopted or rejected. That provision in section seven which declares that no certificate of election shall be issued to any of the judges of the supreme court, is not applied in like case where Cook county is to be affected. Now, I am opposed to any such discrimination in favor of Cook county. What is its operation t Mr. MEDILL. Will the gentleman offer an amendment a Mr. ATKINS. The gentleman from Cook [Mr. Medill] acted as the chairman of the committee that framed these see g tions, and he knows the reason he put it there. It was. put there for the purpose of having the interests of Cook county, with reference to her judiciary, entirely met and secured on the day of election, whether- the Constitution went up or Mr. CHURCH. Mr. C., ai eman: I hope then that the section, if r. ttined, will remain as it is, so that it v,-lt be neither as sessed nor collected. Mr. ROSS. Mr. Cha.rman: I will in quire of the gentleman wher ther there is any necessity for this ection at all. If we adopt the section does it n ot do away with the provision of the old Constitution in effect? MrHY.HAY. Mr. Chairman: Let me say to the gentleman that that undoubtedly will be the effect of it, unless the exigen cies of the State require the retention of the tax for the present year, and if so that retention ought to be provided for in the schedule. Mr. ROSS. Mr. Chairman: It requires the taxpayers to pay it now for this year only. Mr. HAY. You understand that it re quires only the tax now in process of collection. Mr. ROSS. That is it. Mr. CHURCH. Mr. Chairman: I will say to the gentleman from Sangamon [Mr. Hay] that it applies to the tax now being assessed. The financial vear for revenue purposes commences on the first of April. I desire to have the two mill tax not collected for the revenue year commencing in April. I do not believe that it is necessary that it should be collected in the present condition of the State debt. It is competent, if there should be any deficiency in the revenue, for the General Assembly to provide for meeting the deficiency. Mr. MOORE. Mr. Chairman:. I move to strike out section thirty-one. The motion was agreed to. So section thirty-one was stricken out. The Secretary read section thirty-two, as follows: SEC. 32. The provisions -of this Constitution required to be executed prior to the adoption or rejection thereof, shall take effect and be in force immediately. Done in Convention at the capitol, in the city of Springfield, on the —- day of May, in the year of our Lord one thousand eight hundred and seventy, and of the independence of the United States of America the ninetyfourth. In witness whereof we have hereunto subscribed our names. Section thirty-two was agreed to. Mr. CODY. Mr. Chairman: I move to reconsider the vote by which sections seven and eight were stricken out, as upon subsequent action of the Convention they have determined upon the same matter to which these sections apply, and in accordance with their provisions. Mr. BROWNINqG. Mr. Chairman: The questions will come up in Convention. Mr. CODY. Mr. Chairman: If that is done, we understand.*it to b)e the action and the intention of the Convention. The Committee on Revision and Adjustment will make their report upon the judiciary article before we adjourn this evening, or the first thing in the morning. The CHAIRMAIN. The question is upon reconsidering the vote by which sections seven and eight were stricken out. A division was ordered. The committee divided, when the motion to reconsider was agreed to. The Clerk read section seven, as follows:. SEC. 7. 0n the-day this Constitution is submitted to the people for ratificatiotn,Jn . 53. -31AY 101' 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1809 181 COSIUINLCNYBI~TED Mr. ANTHONY. Mr. Chairman: Do I understand the amendment proposed by the gentleman from Adams [Mr. Browning] has been adopted? The CHAIRMAN. It has. Mr. ANTHONY. I move then, Mr. Chairman, that the vote be reconsidered. The CHAIRMAN. The motion is not in order. Another motion is now pending. Mr. ANTHONY. Gentlemen may talk, Mr. Chairman, about the Cook county delegation, but I never heard of it until it was (offered here. Mr. CAMERON. Mr. Chairman: If I rightly understand the remarks of the gentleman from Cook [Mr. Anthony], he must have forgotten that he agreed, as far as his vote and influence extended, to apply the principle of minority representation to the election of the judges provided for in this section. I owe it to myself to say that but for such assurance, given by him and my other republican colleagues, I would not have supported the proposition to create three new judgships. The object was to elect a nonpartisan judiciary. I hope the understanding will be carried out in good faith. Mr. ANTHONY. My colleague [Mr. Cameron] did not understand me. I was speaking of the particular system which the gentleman from Adams [Mr. Browning] proposed. The CHAIRMAN. The question is on the motion of the gentleman from Stephenson [Mr. Turner] to rise and report the article to the Convention. The motion was agreed to. Mr. MEDILL. Mr. President: I move that the report of the Committee of the Whole on Schedule be made the special order to-morrow morning, when we reach the general order, for the action of the Convention until its completion. Mr. HAINES, of Lake. Mr. President: I move to amend that the Convention meet at seven o'clock to-night to consider that report as a special order. The motion was not agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is on the motion of the gentleman from Cook [Mr. Medill], that the report of the Committee of the Whole on the Schedule be made the special order for to-morrow at nine o'clock. The motion was agreed to. Strike out the word "this" before Constitution in tefthe fourth line, and insert the words "the existing." gThe amendment offered by Mr. Washburn, was not agreed to. The CHAIRMAN. The question is on the section. Shall it be adopted? A division was ordered. The committee divided, when section seven was agreed to. The CHAIRMAN. The Clerk will read section eight. The Clerk read section eight, as follows: SEC. 8. On the day this Constitution is submitted to the people for ratification, there shall be elected three judges of the circuit court in the county of Cook, as provided for in the article of this Constitution relating to the judiciary; at which election every person entitled to vote, according to the terms of this Constitution, shall be allowed to vote; and the election shall be otherwise conducted, returns made and certificates issued in ac cordance with laws now existing for the election of circuit judges: Provided, That at said election no elector shall vote for more than two candidates for circuit judge. Mr. TURNER. Mr. Chairman: I move to amend by adding the words fol lowirg: Add to the end of the section the following: "If, upon canvassing the votes for and azainst the adoption of this Constitution, it shall appear that there has been polled a greater number of votes against than for it, then no certificates of election shall be issued for any of said judges." The question being on the amendment offered by Mr. Turner, it was agreed to. Mr. BROWNING. Mr. Chairman: I wish to offer a further amendment, tostrike out all after the word "election," in the seventh line, and insert in lieu thereof: Each elector shall be entitled to three votes, and may cast them all for one of the candidates for circuit judge, or may distribute them equally or unequally among the candidates. I suppose it is acceptable to the delegates from Cook county that the experiment shall be tried in the election of Cook county judges, and I think what I propose is a better system than that provided by the section. I propose to substitute the free, cumulative vote for the restriction. We have already adopted the free and cumulative vote, in its application to other elections, and, for the sake of consistency, as well as because I think it the better system of the two, I move the amendment, and trust it may be adopted. Mr. ANTHONY. Mr. Chairman: The gentleman assumnes that his amendment will be acceptable to the Cook county delegation. It may be, but I do not like the method of voting proposed by hint at all. Therefore, I, for one, would not consent to that system of voting. I do not know that I should object to the section, just as it stands, but I do not like the words proposed by the gentleman from Adams [Mr. Browning]. The CHAIRMAN. The question is on the amendment offered by the gentleman from Adams [M~r. Browning]. A division was ordered. The committee divided, when, there being thirty-one in the affirmative and twenty-five in the:negative, the amendment was agreed to. Section eight, as amended, was then agreed to. Mr. TURNER. Mr. Chairman: I mnove that the committee now rise and report the article, with amendments, to the Convention, and ask its concurrcne therein. -,. SUPREME COURT. SEC. 2. The supreme court shall consist of seven judges, and shall have original jurisdiction in cases relating to the revenue, in mandamvs and habeas corpus, and appellate jurisdiction in all other cases. One of said judges shall be chief justice; four shall constitute a quorum, and the concurrence of four shall be necessary to every decision. SEC. 3. No per son shall be eligible to the office of judge of the supreme court unless he shall be at least thirty years of age, and a citizen of the United States, nor unless he shall have resided in this State five years next preceding his election, and be a resident of the district in which he shall be elected. SEC. 4. Terms of the su preme court sha ll continue to be held in the present grand divisions at the several places now provided for holding the same; and until otherwise provided by law, one or more terms of said court shall be held, for the northern division, in the city of Chicago, each year, at such times as said court may appoint, whenever said city or the county of Cook shall provide appropriate rooms therefor, and the use of a suitable library without expense to the State. The judicial divisions may be altered, increased or diminished in number, and the times and places of holding said court may be changed by law. SEC. 5. The present grand divisions shall be preserved and be denominated southern, central and northern, until otherwise provided by law. The State shall be divided into seven districts for the election of judges, and until otherwise provided by law, they shall be as follows: First District.-The counties of St. Clair Clinton, Washington, Jefferson, Wayne, Edwards, Wabash, White, Hamilton, Franklin, Perry, Randolph, Monroe, Jackson, Williamson, Saline, Gallatin. Hardin, Pope, Union, Johnson, Alexander, Pulaski and Massac. Second -District-The counties of Madison, Bond, Marion, Clay, Richland, Lawrence, Crawford, Jasper, Effingham, Fayette, Montgomery, Macoupin, Shelby Cumberland, Clark, Greene, Jersey, Calhoun and Christian. Third /District-The counties of Sangamon, Macon, Logan, DeWitt, Platt, Douglas, Cham. paign, Vermilion, McLean, Livingston, Ford, Iroquois, Coles, Edgar, Moultrie and Tazewell. Fourth ~District-The counties of Fulton, McDonough, Hancock, Schuyler, Brown, Adams, Pike, Mason, Menard, Morgan, Cass and Scott. _Fifth -District-The counties of Knox, Warren, Henderson, Mercer, Henry, Stark, Peoria, Marshall, Putnam, Bureau, LaSalle, Grundy and Woodford. ,Sixth -District-The counties of Whiteside, Carroll, Jo Daviess, Stephenson, Winnebago, Boone McHenry, Kane, Kendall, DeKalb, Lee, Ogle and Rock Island. Seventh District-The counties of Lake, Cook, Will, Kankakee and DuPage. The boundaries of the districts may be changed at the session of the General Assembly preceding the election for judges therein, and at no other time, but whenever such alterations shall be mad]e, the same shall be upon the rule of equality of population, as nearly as county boundaries will allow, and the districts shall be composed of contiguous counties, in as nearly compact form as circumstances will permit. The alteration of the district shall not affect the tenure of office of any judge. SE1C. 6. At the time of voting on the adoption of this Constitution, one judge of the supreme court shall be elected by the electors thereof in each of said districts numbered two, three, six and seven, who shall hold their offices tbr the term of nine years from the first Motnday of June, in the year of our Lord one thousand eight hundred and seventy. The term of office of judges of the supreme court, elected after the adoption of this Constitution, shall be nine years; and on the first Monday of June of 4he year in which lREVISION AND ADJUSTMENT-JUDICIARY. Mr. CODY. Mr. President: Would it be in order now to make a report from the Committee on Revision and Adjustment? The PRESIDENT. It would be in order. Mr. CODY. Mr. President: The Committee on Revision and Adjustment, to whom was referred the article of the present Constitution relating to the judicial department, as amended and concurred in by the Convention, have had the same under eonsideration, have revised and adjusted the various sections thereof, and have directed me to report the same back in the words following, and ask that the -same be enrolled as article six of the amended Constitution of Illinois. Mr. WALL. Mr. President: It is now nearly half-past five, and I move that the Convention do now adjourn. The motion was not agreed to. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION T-LTF,SD.&Y) 1810 Mr. CODY. I will commence the reading of the judiciary article. ARTICLE VI. SF,cTioN 1. The judicial powers, except as in this article is otherwise provided, shall be yested in one supreme court, circuit courts, county courts, justices of the peace, police magistrates, and in such courts as may be created by law in and for cities and incorporated towns. MY1,17. - DBTS D RCEIG.81 I lars per annum, payable quarterly, until other wise provided by law. And after their sala. ries shall be fixed by law, they shall not be increased or diminished during the terms for which said judges shall be respectively elected; and from and after the adoption of this Constitution, no judge of the supreme or circuit court shall receive any other compensation, perquisite or benefit, in any form what soever, nor perform any other than judicial duties to which may belong any emoluments. SEC. 17. No person shall be eligible to the office of judge of the circuit or any inferior court, or to membership in the "board of county commissioners," unless he shall be at least twenty-five years of age, and a citizen of the United States, nor unless he shall have re sided in this State five years next preceding his election, and be a resident of the circuit, county or city in which he shall be elected. The removal of any such judge or officer from the circuit, county or city, in and for which he shall have been elected, shall va6ate his office. COUNTY COURTS. SEC. 18. There shall be elected in and for each county, one county judge and one clerk of the county court, whose terms of office shall be four years. But the General Assem bly may create districts of two or more contiguols counties, in each of which snall be elected one judge, who shall take the place of and exercise the powers and jurisdiction of county judges in such districts. County courts shall be courts of record, and shall have original jurisdiction in all matters of probate;settlement of estates of deceased persons; appointment of guardians and conservators, and settlements of their accounts; in all matters relating to apprentices; and in proceedings for the collection of taxes and assessments, and such other jurisdiction as may be provided for by general law. Mr. WALL. Mr. President: A matter has occurred to me in relation to section seventeen, to which I desire to call attention. It is provided that the judges of these circuit and inferior courts shall each be a resident of the circuit, county or city in which they shall be elected. We have provided in section first, as follows: SECTION l. The judicial powers, except as in this article is otherwise provided, shall be vested in one supreme court, circuit courts, county courts, justices of the peace, police magistrates, and in such courts as may be created by law in and for cities and incorporated towns. Now, if a court is created in an incorporated town, ought not the judge of that court to be sub ect to the same restrictions as other judges, and be required to reside in the incorporated town in which he is elected? Mr. CHURCH. Mr. Chairman: I would suggest that there would be a difficulty in applying that to the city courts of Elgin and Aurora, in the counter represented by the gentleman from Kane [Mr. Wheaton.] Mr. WHEATON. Mr. Chairman: In my county we have two city courts, and the same judge is judge of both courts. It would be difficult for him to comply with this amendment. The effect of the amendment would be to nullifyr the law by which one man is judge of both those courts. Mr. WALL. Mr. Chairman. I move that the rules lie suspended, in order to mnake the amendmlent I have suggested. The motion was not agreed to. Mr. SPRINGER. Mr. Ckairman: In section eighteen it is'provided that the General Assembly may create "districts of two or more contiguous counties." Ought we not to insert "1districts" in section seventeen, after the word "circuit," in the fifth linle, so that the judges of such district courts shall be required to reside ill the districts wherein they are elecged? APPELLATE COURTS. SEC. 11. After the yea r of our Lord one thouseih u n r e and eight hundred and seventy-f our, in ferior appellate courts, of uniform organization and jurisdiction, may be created in districts formed for that purpose, to which such appeals and writs of error as the General Assemblv may provide may be prosecut ed f rom circuit and other courts, and from which appeals and writs of error shall lie to the supreme court, i n a ll criminal cases, and cases in which a franchise or freeho ld or t he validity of a statute is involved, and in such other cases as may be provided by law. Such appellate courts shall be held by such number of judges of the circuit courts, and at such times and places, and in such manner as may be provided by law; but no judge shall sit in review upon cases decided by him. Nor shall said judges receive any additional compensation for such services. CIRCUIT COURTS. SEC. 12. The circuit courts shall have orig inal jurisdiction of all causes in law and equity, and such appellate jurisdiction as is or may be provided by law, and shall hold two or more terms each year in every county. The terms of office of judges of circuit courts shall be six years. Before reading section thirteen, I desire to ask the close attention of the Convention to the following section. It has been the most difficult section with which the Committee on Revision had to do. We worked over it about four hours, and it will be observed that the amendment introduced by the gentleman from Logan [Mr. Parks] at the time the portion (, f this article, in relation to Cook county, was under consideration, is incorporated into this section, as it properly belongs here. SEC. 13. The State, exclusive of the county of Cook and other counties having a population of one hundred thousand, shall be divided into judicial circuits, prior to the expiration of the terms of office of the present judges of the circuit courts. Such circuits shall be formed of contiguous counties, in as nearly compact form and as nearly equal as circumstances will permit, having due regard to business, territory and population, and shall not exceed in number one circuit for every one hundred thousand population in the State. One judge shall be elected for each of said circuits by the electors thereof. New circuits may be formed and the boundaries of circuits changed by the General Assembly at its session next preceding the election for circuit judges, but at no other time: Provided, that the circuits may be equalized or chantzed at the first session of the General Assembly, after the adoption of this Constitu-tion. The creation, alteration or change of any circuit shall not affect the tenure in office of any judge. Whenever the business of the circuit court of any one or of two or more contiguous counties, containing a population exceeding fifty thousand, shall occupy' nine months of the year, the General Assembly may make of such county or counties a separate circuit. Whenever additional circuits are created, the foregoing limitation shall be observed. SEC. 14. The General Assembly shall provide for the times of holding court in each county; which shall not be changed, except by the General Assembly next preceding the general election for judges of said courts; b u t additional terms may be provided for in any county. The election for judges of the circuit courts shall be held on the first Monday in June, in the year of our Lord one thousand eight hundred and seventy-three, and every six years thereafter. SEC. 15. The General Assembly may divide the State into judicial circuits of greater population and territory, in lieu of the circuits provided for in section thirteen of this article, l and provide for the election therein, severally, by the electors thereof, by general ticket, of not exceeding four judges, who shall hold the l circuit courts in the circuit for which they shall be elected, in such manner as may be s provided by law SEC. 16. From and after the adoption of i this Constitution, judges of the circuit courts shall receive a salary of three thousand dol- i the term of any of the judg e s in office at the adoption of this Constitution, or of the judges then elected, shall expire, and every nine years thereafter, there shall be an elec tion for the successor or successors of such judges, in the respective districts wherein the term of such judges shall expire. The chief justice shall continue to act as such until the expiration of the term for which he was elected, after which the judges shall choose one of their number chief justice. Mr. BENJAMIN. I would suggest that by this provision, four judges would go out of office at the same time. I do not know whether this is intended in the section or not. The PRESIDENT. The question is a question of substance, and cannot be reached except by a suspension of the rules. Mr. PERLEY. I move to strike cut the word'their," in the second line, and insert "his." The motion was agreed to. Mr. SPRINGER. Mr. Chairman: Will it be in order to go back to the fifth section? I wanted to make a little alteration there for the benefit of three counties that are now in the southern grand division. I propose that after the word "northern," in the second line, the words "the counties of Montgomery, Madison, and Jersey shall be included in the cen. tral grand division," shall be inserted. I would like very well to have this amendment made. Appeals from these counties usually come to Springfield by agreement, and they naturally belong to the central division. I move that the rules be suspended for that purpose. Mr. ROSS. Mr. President: That can be done by law. Mr. SPRINGER. It only involves the change of two or three words. A division was ordered. The Convention divided, when, there being less than two-thirds of the Convention in the affirmative, the motion of Mr. Springer to suspend the rules was not agreed to. The PRESIDENT. In order that there may be no misapprehension, the Chair will state that any section read will be regarded as enrolled, and if further alterations or changes in form, are determined upon, or if the committee have exceeded their authority to change the meaning of sections, attention should be called to it at once. Mr. CODY. The article continues: SEC. 7. From and after the adoption of this Constitution, the judges of the supreme court shall each receive a salary of four thousand dollars per annum, payable quarterly, until otherwise provided by law. And after said salaries shall be fixed by law, the salaries of the judges in office shall not be increased or diminished during the terms for which said judges shall have. been elected. SEC. 8. Appeals and writs of error may be taken to the supreme court, held in the grand division in which the case is decided, or, by consent of the parties, to any other grand division. SEC. 9. The supreme court shall appoint one reporter of its decisions, who shall hold his office for six years, subject to removal bvy the court. SEC. 10. At the time of the election for representatives in the General Assembly, happenidg next preceding the expiration of the terms of office of the present clerks of said court, one clerk of said court for each division shall be elected, whose term of office shall be six years from said election, but who shall not enter upon the duties of his office until the expiration of the term of his predecessor; and every six years thereafter, one clerk of said court for each division shall be eleced. i s MAY 10, 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1811 1812 (3O~TITUTIOAL OOYETJO. TUESDAY, Mr. CODY. The a? tide continues: Mr. CODY. The article continues: sors have been commissioned and qualified, Mr. CODY. The article continues:! SEC. 22. At the election for members of the General Assembly in the year of our Lord one thousand eight hundred and seventy-two, and every four years thereafter, there shall be elected a State's attorney in and for each county, in lieu of the Stat's attorneys now provided. by law, whose term of office shall be four years. SEC. 23. The county of Cook shall be one judicial circuit. The circuit court of Cook county shall consist of five judges, until their -number shall be increased, as herein provided. The present judge of the recorder's court of the city of Chicago and the present judge of the circuit court of Cook county shall be two of said judges, and shall remain in office for the terms for which they were respectively elected, and until their successors shall be elected and qualified. The superior court of Chicago shall be continued, and called the superior court of Cook county. The General Assembly may increase the number of said judges, by adding one to either of said courts for every additional fifty thousand inhabitants in said county over and above a population of four hundred thousand. The terms of office of the judges of said courts thereafter elected shall be six years. ,UMr. PERLEY. Mr. President: In the last line of that section it would seem to bean improvement to change "thereafter" to "hereafter;" that is, drop a "t." I move that amendment. Thec motion was agreed to. Mr. CODY. Mr. President: I will proceed with the reading. SEC. 24. Them.udge having the shortest unexpired terma shall be chief justice of the court of which he is a judge. In case there are two or more whose terms expire at the same time, it ma~y be determined by lot which shall be chief justice. Any judge of either of said courts shall have all the powers of a circuit judge, and may hold the court of which he is a member..Each of them may hold a different branch thereof at the same time. SEC. 25. That the county of Lake shall re-; main unattached to any judicial circuit untilaction by the General Assembly. The Governor shall appoint some suitable person, who shall be an elector of said county, as judge of the circuit court thereof for the time being, who shall possess all the powers of a judge of the circuit court. SEC. 26. The recorder's court of the city of Chicago shall be continued, and shall be call ed the "criminal court of Cook county." It shall have the jurisdiction of a circuit Court, S in all cases of criminal and quasi criminal na ture, arising in the county of Cook, or that may be brought before said court pursuant to law; and all recognizances and appeals taken in said county in criminal and quasi criminal cases shall be returnable and taken to said court. It shall have no jurisdiction in civil cases, except in those on behalf of the people, Mr. BEJAMIN Mr. Pesidet: Iand incident to such criminal or quasi crimi- fcsadois nteCnttto n moveto srikeout,nea themidde ofthenal matters, and to dispose of unfinished busi- lw ste a oeit oehrwt secton, he wrds,"be n liu oftheCook county aball be held by one or more of fcsadoisosi h as n h county courts herein, and."the judges of the circuit or superior court. of jde ftesvrlcrutcut hl e The aendmnt ofere by~r. Bnja-Cook county, as nearly as may be in alterna- pr otenx eea sebytenm mm was agreed to. ~~~tion, as may be determined by said judges, orbeofdythyhvhedcutithseea Presdent Letprovided by law. Said judges shall be, ex-of-coniscmrsnthirepciecrut Mr. ANTHONY. Mr. ~~~~ficio, judges of said court. tepeeigtoyas the Scretry rad th secion s it SEc. 27. The present clerk of the record- Sc 2 l fiespoie o nti itands.. ~~~~~~~er's court of the city of Chicago shall be thearilshlhodterofcsutlterse The ecreary eadsecton tenty asclerk of the criminal court of Cook county, csossalb ulfe,adsal epc amended, as follows: ~The present clerks of the superior court of o ititfrwihte a eeetdo S~c.20. he Gnera Assmblymay ro-Chicago, and the present clerk of the circuit apitd h em fofc falsc videfortheestblihmen ofa pobae curtcourt of Cook county, shall continue in officeofieswhrnootewsprsrbdi In ech ouny hainga ppulaionof verduring the terms for which they were respect- ti ril,salb oryas n l h fify tousnd,andfortheeletio ofa jdgeively elected; and thereafter there shall bemabeiofieathadpinothsCn theeof whseter ofoficeshal e te smebut one clerk of the superior court, to be siuinsalcniu ohl hi fie as tat o thecouny jdge,and ho sallelected by the qualified electors of said coun-unithexiainothtemfowhc be eectd atthesam tim an in he amety, who shall hold his office for the term of te eersetvl lce rapitd mannr. aid ours, hen stalishd sallfour years. and until his successor is elected Alofcr,weentohriepoie o hav orginl jrisicton f al pobae' at-and qualified.-i hsatce hl efr uhdte n ters th setlemnt f esate of ecesed Sxc 28. All justices of the peace in the rciesc opnaina s.rmyb persns,theappintent f gardansandcity of Chicago shall be appointed by thepriddbla. acnisisuheetv consrvaorsandsetlemet o thir ccontsGovernor, by and with the advice and consent ofcssalb ildb lcin u hr in ll attrs elaingto pprnties nd i;of the senate (but only upon the recommen- teueprdtr osntece ~ er cass o th saes f ral stae o d'ceaeddat ion of a majority of the judges of the cir-thvaacshlbeflebyapitet persons i payment f debts.cuit, superior and county courts), and for a olw:O ugs yteGvro;o The PESIDET. Th gentemanprovided by law. They shall hold their ofc petis rb h ug rjde from u~age[Mr. ody] iU prceed. offices for.four years, and until their succes- teef n falsc ~e fie,b h sors have been commissioned and qualified, but they may be removed by summary proceeding in the circuit or superior court, for extortion or other malfeasance. Existing justices of the peace and police magistrates may hold their offices u ntil the expiration o f their respective t erms. GENERAL PROVISIONS. SEC. 29. All judicial of f icers shall be commissioned by the governor. All law s relating t o courts shall be ge neral, and of uniform operation; and the organization, jurisdiction, powers, proceedings and practice of all courts of the same class or grade, so far as regulated by law, and the force and effect of the process, judgments and decrees of such courts, severally, shall be uniform. SEC. 30. The General Assembly may, for cause entered on the journals, upon due notice and opportunity of defense, remove from office any judge, upon concurrence of three*fourths of all the members elected of each house. All other officers in this article mentioned shall be removed from office on prosecution and final conviction for misdemeanor in office. Mr. TURNER. Mr. President- There is evidently language employed in this thirtieth section that means more than is intended. It first provides how certain officers may be removed, and then there is a positive declaration that all other officers shall be removed on prosecution and final conviction. It would make it imperative almost with regard to every officer in the State-that is, it would admit of that construction; that would be the literal meaning. I think the word should be "may," instead of "shall." Mr. HAYES. I suggest to the gentleman that he would lose entirely the sense of the sentence, by making that change. As I understand the meaning of that section, removal shall follow conviction; but if the amendment is made, it would -make the provision inoperative. They might be removed, or they might not. It would require further legislation. The PRESIDENT. The Chair regards the proposition as involving a question of substance, which cannot be reached except by a suspension of the rule. Mr. CODY. The article continues: SEC. 31. All judges of courts of record in ferior to the supreme court, shall, on or be fore the first day of June, of'each year, re port in writing to the judges of the supreme court, such defects and omissions in the laws as their experience may suggest; and the judges of the supreme court shall, on or be fore the first day of'January, of each year, report in writ-i to, the'Governor, such defects and omiis'[-ia ~the Constitution and laws as they- may;~thit extist, together with appropriate f~ormsi 0f bills to cure such defeXcts and omissions sin the laws. And the 'judgres of the several circuit courts shall report to the next General Assembly the number of days they have held court in the several counties comprising their respective circuits the preceding two years. SEC. 32. All officers provided for in this article shall hold their offices until their successors shall be qualified, and shall, respectively, reside in the division, circuit,, county or district for which they may be elected or ,appointed. The terms of office of all such officers, where not otherwise prescribed in this article, shall be four years. And all who ma~y be ins office at the adoption of this Constitution shall continue to hold their offices !until the expiration of the terms for which 'they were respectively elected or appointed. All officers,s where not otherwise provided for in this article, shall perform such duties and ireceive such compensation as is or may be provided by law. Vacancies in such elective ,Offices shall be filled by election, but where the unexpired term does not exceed ore year, the vacancy shall be filled by appointment, fias follows: Of judges, by the Governor; of clerks of courts, by the court to which the office appertains, or by the judge or judges thereof;~ and of all such opher offices,s byr the Mr. CODY. The articl e con tinues: sEC. 19. Appeal s and w rits of error shall be allowed from final determinations of county courts, as may be provided by law. PROBATE COURTS. SEC. 20. The General Assembly may provide for the establishment of a probate court in each county having a population of over fifty thousand, and for the election of a judge thereof, whose term of office shall be the same as that of the county judge, and who shall be elected at the same time and in the same manner. Said courts, when established, shall be in lieu of the county courts in all such counties, and have original jurisdiction of all probate matters, the settlements of estates of deceased persons, the appointment of guardians and conservators, and settlements of their accounts; in all matters relating to apprentices, and in cases of the sales of real estate of deceased persons, in payment of debts. "For the payment of debts," it ought to be. JUSTICES OF TH PEACE AND CONSTABLES. SEC. 21. Justices of the peace, police magistrates and constables shall be elected in and for such districts as are or may be provided by law, and the jurisdiction'of such justices of the peace and police magistrates shall be uniform. Mr. BENJAMIN. Mr. President: I would ask the gentleman if he has before him the original section corresponding to section twenty. There is a correction there to be made, I think, in respect to the relation of the probate court, when established, to the county court. Mr. CODY. Mr. President: I should have mentioned that after this was printed, we revised, aud we thought "in such counties" expressed the meaning more plainly than'therein." We did originally have "therein." That was changed today. Mr. BENJAMIN. Mr. President: This section, as it stands now, does away with the county court. That is not the object of the section. If increased jurisdiction be given to the county court, it mav be necessary that there should be a separate court for the transaction of probate busipless. Mr. WHEATON. Mr. President: I would suggest that that was an amend ment made by the Convention. Mr. BENJAMIN. Mr. President: I move -a suspension of the rules to have the clause which seems to do away with county courts, struck out. The motion of Mr. Benjamin, was agreed to. Mr. BENJAMIN. Mr. President: I move to strike out, near the middle of the section, the words, "be in lieu of the county courts therein, and." The amendment offered by'Mr. Benjamin was agreed to. Mr. ANTHONY. Mr. President: Let the Secretary read the section as it Ftands. The Secretary read section twenty, as amended, as'follows: SEC. 20. The General Assembly may provide for the establishment of a probate court In each county having a population of over fifty thousand, and for the election of a judge thereof, whose term of office shall be the same as that of the county judge, and who shall be elected at the same time and in the same manner. Said courts, when established, shall have original jurisdiction of all probate mat ters, the settlement of estates of deceased persons, the appointment of guardians and conservators and settlement of their accounts; in all matters relating to apprentices, and in cases of the sales of real estate of deceased persons in payment of debts. The PRESIDENT. The gentleman from DuPage [Mr. Cody] Bill proceed. t f f f f t t 0 n d 1 1812 CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION TU.ESDAY, MAY 10, 1870 DflATS Api) iia bordofsuerisrso bar o cuny on-an te thrsaoped Terfoe,Iitwil ea "out, it o ctis"i and the others adopted. Therefore, I move to transfer it to the judiciary arti cle. Mr. CODY. Mr. President: Thereis not a word in this article providing for the fees of county officers. And, again, transfer this section to the judiciary ar ticle without changing its language, and the salaries of those officers in Cook county may be fixed prior to the expira tion of the terms of their offices, which the Convention has repeatedly decided shall not be done. This is the object of the gentleman in asking to have it put back into the judiciary article. It does not belong there. Itis in regard to county officers, and their compensation, and byo general understanding, it was to be placed in the article on counties. The Conven tion never would have adopted it at all, but with that understanding, and it was adopted without any discussion whatever after the statement made by the gentle man from Cook [Mr. Anthony]. One other thing in regard to the mis apprehension he is under. I have be fore me, tile original section introduced by the Judiciary Committee, and I also have before me, the section which the gentleman, himself, introduced as a sub stitute for section thirty-nine, which did change the original section to some ex tent. Mr. ANTHONY. The gentleman may be correct in part, but if he will take in his hand the original report of the J u diciary Committee, he will find section thirty-nine there. The PRESIDENT. The question is on the motion of the gentleman from Cook [Ar. Anthony] that the thirty ninth section of the judiciary article be inserted after the twenty-seventh section of this report. The motion of Mr. Anthony was not agreed to. Mr. CODY. I have one suggestion that may be of value. I wish to call the attention of the gentleman from Kane [Mr. Whea+ton] especially, to the last sen tence of section seventeen of this article, and in connection therewith to section thirty-two, which provides that these officers shall reside in the division, circuit, county or district for which they may be elected or appointed. I ask if that last sentence will not be sufficient to obviate the objection in regard to a judge living in one city and holding court in two cities of a county. Strike out the last sentence of the seventeenth section. Mr. HAINES, of Cook. We have not got any authority to do it. mnhr. CODY. I move a suspension of the rules for the purpose of striking out the last sentence of the seventeenth section. The motion of Mr. Cody to suspend the rules was agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is on striking out from section seventeen the words boar d of supervisors or board of county com missioners, in t he co unty where the vacancy occurs. Mr. BROMWELL. There seems to be a queer expression in the second line, which may be remedied by a slngle word. I m ov e to i nserte d I the weord "they before the word "shall," in the second line. The motion was agreed to. Mr. ANTHONY. Mr. President: I see, by the report of the committee, that section thirty-nine of the judiciary article is left ou, and has been transferred to the Committee on Counties. Mr. CODY. Mr. President: That is just what the gentleman said should be done with it, when he introduced it. Mr. ANTHONY. I did not say so, sir. This is passed in the judiciary arti cle, and, if the Convention will turn to section twenty-seven, they will see that it ought to follow that section. In my judgment, it was originally pass ed as section thirty-nine of the judiciary article, which is now transferred from the judiciary article, and put into the county t.rticle. I did not understand that that was to be done. I move that section thirty-nine, or sec tion nine, as it is in the report upon coun ty officers, be transferred to the judiciary article, and follow section twenty sevenI. It relates to clerks of the courts. Sec tion twenty-seven also relates! to clerks of the courts, and section nine of the article on counties ought to follow sec tion twenty-seven of the judiciary arti cle. Mr. CODY. Mr. President: I desire to say a word in regard to that. When section thirty-nine was int.oduced I was about making a motion to postpone the consideration of it until the article on counties should be considered; and I so stated, it referring entirely to county offi cers. I stated at the time that it should be considered at the time the article on counties should come in. The gentleman from Cook [iMr. Anthony] then stated that the county article had only passed the Committee of the Whole, and had not been actedupon in the Convention, and that the portion of it in regard to fees and compensation might not be adopt ed, and that if it was adopted the Committee on Revision and Adjustment could place the section in the proper place. I have nso doubt that almost any member of the (Convention near him at the timne, will agree with me fully irn my recollection. Mr. ANTHONY. Mr. President. This section was not originally introduced by me. It was introduced fro m the original report of the Judiciary Committee. Mr. CODY. Mr. President: The section the gentleman is speaking of was introduced by himself as a substitute. Mr. ANTHIONY. I beg pardon of the gentleman; but he is mistaken. It was introduced first by the original report of the Judiciary Committee. Then, when the report upon couuties came up, I believe some action was taken upon it. 1 am speaking of the original report made by the Judiciary Committee. If this were left in its present position, one half of the clerks and their compensation would be ill the county article, and if the county article is submitted separately, and the legislative, executive and judiciary articles were submitted together, the county article might be Toted dow~ SUBMISSION OF JUDICIAL ARTICLE. Mr. ROSS. Mr. President: I move that the judiciary article be submitted as a separate article to the people. Mr. HAYES. Mr. President: I rise to a question of order, whether it is in order to make a motion to submit the article to a separate vote upon the mere question of enrolling the article? The PRESIDENT. The article has been ordered to be enrolled. Mr. MERRIAM. Mr. President. I move to lay the motion of the gentleman from Fulton [Mr. Ross], to submit the judiciary article to a vote of the people, separately, upon the table. The yeas and nays were ordered, and being taken, resulted-yeas 34, nays 26as follows: Allen, of Alx. English, Scholfield, Allen ofCwfld, Gamble, Snyder, Bowman, Goodell, Skinner, Brown, Hankins, Wagner, Bryan, Hanna, Wait, Buxton, Hildrup, Wells Cary, King, Mr. President-~2 Coolbaugh, Poage, So the motion of Mr. Merriam, to lay on the table the motion of Mr. Ross, to submit the judicial article separately, was agreed to. Removal of any such judge or officer from the circuit, county or city in and for which he shall have been elected, shall vacate his office. The amendment offered by Mr. Cody was agreed to. Mr. WHEATON. Mr. President: To relieve this section from any doubt, I desire to add to section seventeen, in the third line, where it provides "And be a x resident of the circuit, county or city," so 31AY 10, 1870, D.El3AT.tS AX!) PRO(,'P,:E][)IXGS., 18ia it will read'4county, city or cities" in which he shall be elected. At the suggestion of my friend'from Perry [Mr. Wall] I haveuo objection to addidg "incorporated towns." The question being on the amendment offered by Mr. Wheaton, it was agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The article will be enrolled as a part of the Constitutioin. Mr. CODY. Mr. President: There are criticisms by gentlemen around me upon the words "judiciary department." It is suggested that there i.s no such adi ective as llj Lidiciary," and it should be "judicial." I notice in the Constitutioia of 1862 it is "judiciary department." It is, however, perhaps unnecessary to take any action on the subject,, It can be correcte,d when enrolled. The PRESIDENT. The'article will be enrolled. YEAS. ,knthony, Al,cher, Atkins, Benjamin, Bromwell, Browning, Cameron, Church,, Craig, Cross, Eldredge, Fuller, Goodhue, Hart, Ifarwood, Hay, McCoy, M,adill, Merriam, Moore, Parks, Perley, Rice, Robinson, Sedgwick, Sherrill, Springer, Sutherland, Tincher, Truesdale, Tubbs, Turner, Underwood, Wheaton-34. .NAYS. Haines, of Cook Sharp, Haines of Llke,Vandeventer, I,-Iayes, Wall, McDowell, Washburn, Neece, WendlinL,. Parker, Whitine,' Peirce, Wilson PillsburV, Wright-26. Ross, Abbott, Anderson, Bayne, Cody, Cummings, Dement, Ellis, Forman, Fox, ABSENT, OR NOT VOTING. ADJOURNMENT. Mr. SEDGWICK. ]Vlr. Pre,3ident: I move the Convention do now adjourn. The motion was agreed to. I So the Convention (at six o'clock and twenty-three minutes) adjourned. 0 - 1814 ( O S I -- T....IYT —...~-~IO A.~ -, IE, I,~. S — A-I-Y- I in aid of this construction of the machine shop, and a reservoir, etc., connected with it, to secure which is esteemed of immense importance to their interests. At the same time they have no act of the Legislature legalizing this procedure, and the case is one which I think would fairly come within the rule adopted by this Convention, by a large majority, as to the city of Quincy. Indeed it is the more deserving case of the two, and I hope the Convention will have no objection to allowing the same privilege to be extended to the city of Mattoon in this case, as it can injure no one, and is a provision that will secure results which, if they are lost, will materially cripple that place. I therefore move the rules be suspended to enable me to offer this section in some form that it can be added to the article. The amendment offered by Mr. Brom well is as follows: Nothing in this Constitution contained, shall be construed to prevent the General As sembly from authorizing the city of Mattoon to create any indebtedness for the purpose of securing or aiding in the erection of machine shops in said city, for which the people of said city may have voted and given their assent, prior to the first day of May, 1870. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the motion of the g entleman from Cole s [Mr. Bromwell], that the rules be suspended, to enable him to introduce a proposition. Mr. ELDREDGE. Mr. President: I move to lay the resolution on the ta ble. The PRESIDENT. The question is not before the Convention. It is irregularly introduced, and unless the rules be sus pended, the proposition cannot be enter tained. A division was ordered. The Convention divided, when, there being less than a two-thirds vote in the affirmative, the motion of Mr. Bromwell to suspend the rules was not agreed to. RAILROAD SUBSCRIPTION BY THE CITY OF QUINCY. Mr. PEIRCE. Mr. President: It seems to me that we are getting ourselves into interminable difficulties, by attempting to legalize all the subscriptions that may have been made this winter. I, therefore, move the following resolu tion. The Secretary read the resolution of fered by Mr. Peirce, as follows: iResolved, That the Committee on Revision and Adjustment be instructed to strike out the additional section offered by the gentle dman from Adams, relating to rail-oad sub scriptions made by the city of Quincy. A division was ordered. The Convention divided, when, there being twenty-eight in the affirmative and twenty in the negative, the resolution was not agreed to. W.EDEsSDY, and wMay 1i, 1870. The Convention met at nine o'clock A. m., and was called to order by the Presi dent. have no desire to appropriate th e language of others. COMM UNICATION FROM SUPERINTENDENT OF PUBLIC INSTRUCTION. The PRESIDENT. The Chair will present a comnmuniication from the Honorable Newton Bateman, Superintendent of Public Instruction. The Secretary read the communication, as follows: PRAYER. Prayer was offered by the Rev. Mr. Robertson, of Springfield, as follows: Almighty God, our Heavenly Father, we rejoice this morning that we can come and call Thee by th at endearing name. We rejoice, Heavenly Father, that we are Thy children, wayward, misguided and sinful, but yet Thy children, loved by Thee and under Thy paternal care. We thank Thee for the rest of the night, for our preservation, for the circumstances of comfort with which we are -surrounded this morning. And we bless Thee, Heavenly Father, that Thou hast called Thy servants together again for the discharge of the duties which thou hast imposed upon them. Heavenly Father, by Thine own spirit wilt Thou prepare them for all the duties of the day. Guide them in all their deliberations, in all their decisions. For Jesus' sake wilt Thou f()rgive all their sins and accept all their services. Bless them in all their homes, in all their in terests, in all that is near and dear to them; and Thou, blessed Savior, come by the power of Thy spirit and establish Thy reign in each one of their hearts-the reign of peace and purity and joy and love; and so help help them in every interest to be faithful to Thee, that Thy name may be glorified, that the best interests of the people may be ad vanced through their labors, and that at last through the riches of Thy grace, they may secure the salvation of their souls. Let Thy blessing rest upon Thy servant who presides over this Convention; let Thy bless ing rest upon this commonwealth; pour out Tly spirit, we pray Thee. Heavenly Father, wilt Thou hasten the period when all the kingdoms of this world shall become the kingdoms of Thy dear Son; when Jesus shall take to Himself His great power and reign. Hear us in Heaven, and answer us, ior Jesus' sake. Amen. READING OF TEE JOURNAL. The Secretary proceeded to read the journal of the last day's proceedings, when M r. DEMENT. Mr. President: I move that the further reading of the journal be dispensed with. The motion was agreed to. SPRINGFIELD, ILL., May 10, 1870. HON. CHARLES HITCHCOCK, President Constitutional Convention: SIR:-I ha d the honor to rec eive a copy of a r esolution adopted by the Conventiono April 21st, requesting me to furnish certain information, which was also called for from the Auditor of Public Acounts in a resolution of e ve n date withth he abov e. In the Daily State Journal of this morning, I find, in the reported proceedings of the Convention for Monday, the ninth instant, the following abstract of the statement furnished by the Auditor, in compliance with the before mentioned resolution: For salary.......,$20,238 33 For travexpenses............ 2,848 46 For clerk hire and incidental ex penses.......................... 30,113 26 For 12,580 copies of book, at $1 50.. 18,870 00 $72,070 05 Accepting the,above abstract as correctly furnishing, in brief, the information which the resolution requested me to give (I have not yet seen the Auditor's report), I ask leave very respectfully to make the following statementt: 1. On the sixteenth of February, 1867, the Legislature of Illinois, by a nearly unanimous vote of both houses, without regard to party, passed the following act, entitled "An act to furnish information to school officers."1 "WHEREAS, A volume has been compiled and prepar-ed, for the information and use of school officers, entitled "Common School De cisions," containing the school laws of the State, with all the important decisions of the several State Superintendents of public in struction, and of the supreme court of the State in relation to schools, together with forms of all school instruments required by law, and full instructions concerning the practical duties of school officers and teach ers; therefore, "SEC. 1. Be it enacted by the People of the State of illinois, represented in the Gfeneral As sembly, That the Secretary of State be, and he is hereby authorized and instructed to procure a sufficient number of copies of said common school d-ecisions, at a cost not to ex ceed one dollar and fifty cents per copy, to furnish one copy thereof to each board of school trustees, and of school directors, for the permanent use and benefit of said boards." The book thus purchased for the State by the General Assembly, with such extraordi nary unanimity, and after protracted discus. sion, was my private property, and bought as such. It contained, when so purchased, but two hundred and thirty-four (234) pages, and I was under no obligation whatever to furnish the State any larger or better book than the identical one purchased. I did, how ever, voluntarily improve and revise the work, adding ninety-eight pages:,f new mat ter, thus increasing the size (and of course the cost) of the book by forty-one per cent., giving the State a book of three hundred and thirty-two (332) pages, instead of the one of two hundred and thirty-four pages, which it bought, and with better paper, better print ing and better binding. To ascertain the number of copies required under the act of purchase, I addressed a spe cial circular to the proper officyers, calling for an officiala and detailed statement of the number of organized townships and districts in the S7tate7, and upon the official and certi fied returns received, I made my certificate to the Auditor and Secretary of State, of the number of copies required by the act, and in due time in accordance therewith, I delivered to the Secretary of State twelve thousand five hundred and eighty (12,580) copies of the book, and received therefor fromn the Auditor upon the proper voucher, his warrant for eighteen thousand eight hundred and seventy QUESTION OF PRIVILEGE. Mr. WASHBURN. Mr. President: I rise to a question of privilege. In the Chicago Post, of last Saturday, I am made to use the following laugut ge: Mr. Washburn knew some county s uperintendents who were valuable only in drawing their pay. The loss of such was no great calamity. While I believe that there was such language used by a member of the Convention during the debate on county superintendents, I wish to disclaim using that or any language of like import. I 1814 CONSTITL-ITIONAL CONV.ENTION WEDNF,SDAY, NIXF',TY-TfflRD DAY. INDEBTEDNESS OF THE CITY OF MATTOON. Air. BRO-VIWELL. Mr. President: I wish to offer au amendment to the section adopted a few days ago, on the motion of the gentleman from Adams [Mr. BrowniDg] to provide that nothing in the Constitution shall prohibit the Legislature to authorize the city of Mattoon to perfect certain indebtedness, voted for by the people of that place durir-ig the last six months, and for which there is no act of the Legislature. I suppose that it will be necessary be. fore we do that to move a suspeiasion of the rules for that purpose; and I will state to the Convention, in order that ge,ntleinen may see what is. intended, that ttie city of Mattoon, which is a very entcrpriSiDg and public-spirited city, of about five thousand or sixthousand'inhabitants, has made arrangements by which it can greatly benefit its condition by procuring the erection of very large machine shops of the Terre Haute, Alton & St. Louis railroad. The citizens have been at work for the enterprise for over six months, and are greatly interested in it, and during the latter part of the winter or early in March, voted by a large majority of three to one to issue thftonds of the city MA 1 80 iiTSAi RCiDNG.11 proceedings of the board. The order of $44 60 was in payment of the bill of N. C. Nason, of Peoria, for printing five hundred copies of the proceedings of the board-the money being paid him through me, on his order, merely as a matter of convenience to him. The original orders, receipts and vouchers in each and all of these cases, are on file in my cffice. 4. As member of the board of trustees of the State Industrial University, all of whose meetings I have attended except one, nothing has ever been paid me. Respectfully submitted, NEWTON BATEMAN, Sup't Public Instruction. Mr. MOORE. Mr. President: I Mrstead of that item being thirty two thousa n d dollars, it should be seventy-nine thousand dollars and some cents. Mr. SPRINGER. Mr. President: I move that the usual number of copies of the communication of the Superintendent of Public Instruction be printed. Mr. CHURCH. Mr. President: I move to amend, that the communication be spread upon the journal. The motion of Mr. Springer, as amended, was agreed to. STATIONERY TO COYVENTION, AND PRICES THEREFOR. The PRESIDENT. The Chair will present a commniunication from the Hon Edward Rummel, Secretary of State, which the Secretary will read. The Secretary read the communication, as follows: ry expense, I might have ordered a large amount of stationery, much of which might not have been used, and left in the basement of the State house. But there was no law authorizing such act on my part, nor did I think it was for the interest of the State to do so. I am advised that this action of mine has caused much dissatisfaction among those who, for many years, have been accustomed to fur nish the General Assemblies of our State with such articles- and Mr. Moore refers to a letter he received from a firm in Chicago, giving a list of prices for different qualities of paper. In reading this letter, I do not see that their offer is in any respect (taking the circum. stances into consideration) lower than that of Mr. Harts; the quality of paper, as every one knows, governing the price. In my judgment, the prices charged by Mr. Harts, for the materials furnished by him, taking the quality and expenses in telegraph iDg and expressing. and the responsibility in curred by him, into consideration, are reason able, and many articles much less than prices paid for the same under the last contract made by the State for stationery for the use of the twenty-sixth General Assembly. My arrangements with Mr. Harts were such, that bad the Convention so ordered me, I could at once have closed my purchase of him, but as the Convention did not see fit to instruct me in this matter, and having submitted to the Convention a schedule of articles and prices paid Mr. Harts and charged the Convention, I took it for granted that the same was satis. factory to the Convention, and I continued to purchase of Mr. Harts such articles, and no others, as were ordered by the Convention or its officers. I have repeatedly invited Mr. Moore, and through him, his committee, to look at the samples, with prices attached, of all the arti cles that had been and were being furnished the Convention, but Mr. Moore never accept ed said several invitations, nor has he ever, to my knowledge, examined said samples of stationery, etc., now in this office. I have also repeatedly informed Mr. Moore that I was ready, willing and anxious to give him all the facilities in my power toward explain ing the various expenses of the Convention, as far as the same was under my control;, but so far, Mr. Moore has ignored my invitation, and made up his report without ascertaining the facts in every case. The furniture used by the several commit tees, and purchased upon the written order of the chairmen of said committees and re ferred to by Mr. Moore, is in my possession as custodian, and its disposal is in the power of the Convention, whose orders in this matter I am ready to carry into eff-et. The legal cap paper referred to by Mr. Moore as costil)g $13 per ream, is extra con sul, and the Secretary's books show that only twelve reams have been used, and that only furnished on the special order of the member or officer who received it, and is charged to them at the same price as is paid for the article oy the St~ate. All the balance of the, legal cap paper used by the Convention is charged at $6 and $9 per ream, according to the quality of the same. The letter paper, ostillg and charged to the members at $11 per ream, was8 that with the official and engraved heading, mand is furnished at the same price as that paid by private individuals for the same kind andl quality of paper. Mr. M~oore, in his report conceals the fact that the letter paper referred to by him had an elaborate, engraved heading, ordered by the Convention to be fur nished by the Secretary of State, and hence the increase of cost over co~mmon letter paper without official heading. This, as well as other matters complained of by Mr. Moore} could have been easily and satistkctorily explained to him if he had requested or desired of me, and had he desired to do me full iustice in this matter. But his report, by its reckless charges, shows that he was not actuated by any spirit of fairness or that common courtesy expected from one gentleman toward- another. It has been my endeavor to discharge my duties as an officer of the State with a strict conscientious regard for the interests of'the State, and in all of my acts, as far as my connection with this Convention is concerned, I have endeavored to strictly and carefully carry into effct the wishes of your honorable body so far as the same have comekto myr STATE OF ILLINOIS, ) SECRETARY'S OFFICE, - SPRINGFIELD, ILL, May 10, 1870. HaON. CHARLES HITCHCOCK, President of the Constitutional Convention: - DEAiR SIR:-The report and the accompanying remarks of C. H. Moore, Chairman of the Committee on "Accounts and Expenditures of the Convention," as made to the honorable body over which you preside, will have the tendency, unless contradicted, to reflect on my official acts and otherwise convey a wrong impression and injustice to myself and other State officers, who are mentioned by implication in the said rei;ort and remarks of Mr. Moore. I deem it my privilege and duty t o give a plain and truthful statement of my whole action in regard to furnishing stationecry for use of the Constitutional Convention. 1. In the law providing for the calling together of the Convention there was no provision or authority given to the Secretary of State or other State officers to make any contract for stationery or other material for use of the Convention, but simply requires him to furnish the members of said Convention with such stationery as was usual for the Legislature, while in session. Not knowing what action would be taken by the Conventilon, I made an arrangement with P. W. Harts, Esq., of this city, a large and honorable dealer in books, stationery, etc., for furnishing ~uch stationery as would be ordered by the Convention from day to day at a price as low as could be purchased elsewhere under the same circumstances, he (Mr. Harts) taking all the responsibility of having an over stock on hand, etc. Mr. Harts agreed to furnish the Convention with all the stationery and other articles in his line as last as the same was ordered by the Convention or its committees, thie State paying only for that which was ordered by or for said Convention. The prices of all the articles usually furnished the Legislature, were attached to sampl e s of the same and placed in the office of the sSecretary of State, as reported to the Convention, March 7, 1870. After the assembling of the Convention, I had no time, nor did I think.it necessary to solicit prices from firms outside of this city or State, as I do not believe I could have made any more favorable arrangement with any firm than that made with Mr. Harts, bv which thue interests of the State could be protected. Had tue law allowed, and had it not been my intention to have saved the State unnecessa MAY 11) 1870. Dr,,g]kTES AND PROCEEDIINGS. 1815 dollars, bein- one dollar and f:Lfty cents per COPY. These are the facts connected with that transaction. I regarded it then, and still regard it, as in all respects legitimate and proper, fair an d honorable; and it was, and is, so regarded, as far as I know, by all good men. Similar bills are passed, and purchases made, of gieater or less ai-nount, at nearly every session of our Legislature, and in other States. If it were proper for me to speak of the usefulness of that book, I might refer to hundreds of letters from school officers, teachers. attorneys ard others, in Illinois and othe'r States, from Massachusetts to California, and to innumerable personal assurances ofits value in preventing vexatious and expensive litigation, informing school officers and others in respect to their rights and duties,, and contributing to unify and harmonize the school systems of the country. I have had more than a thousand pressing applications for copies of the b,.)ok since the edition was exhausted. I do -not, of course, deny, or wish to deny, that there was something left for my labor, and my just property rights in the work. I am glad to say, on the contrary, that the State did not take, or evince any wish to take my book for the bare cost of paper and printing. The whole transaction was set forth and published to the people of the whole State, on the twenty-fifth page of the Auditor's report to the twenty-sixth Ge-oeral Assembly. It was a matter between the State and myself, as a private citizen,haviag no connection whatever with the once, duties or compensation of the Superintendent of, Public Instruction. 2. Taking, then, this item from the expense account of the State department of education, with which it has nothing whatever to do, but of which it is absurdly made to form a part in the abstract as given in the State ,Tournal, and there remains, as reported by the Auditor, the sum of $53,200 05, as the whole and entire expense of the department of common schools and public instruction in a great State lor a period of nine years, being an average of $5,911 11. per aaDUln. When it is considered that this amount ineludes and embraces all salaries, clerk hire, printing, stationery, postage, expressage, telegraphing, furniture, repairs, eirc,,Iars, blaiiks, miscellaneous incidental expenses-in a word, all expenses of' every description in any way connected with, or appertaining to the State office of public instruction, it is beli,,ve.d that it cannot, be considered as unreasona.bly large. Be that as it may, it is less than one-seventh of the, expense of the public school department of the State of New York; only onethird of that of Pennsylvania; considerably less than one-half of the amount expended in each of the St —tes of Ohio and Michigan; only two-thirds of the cost of the -public school department of Massachusetts; many thousands of dollars less in the aggregate than the cost of the same department in each of the States of Indiana, Wisconsin and Califor 181 COSIUINLC.ETO E~DY Mr. CHURCH. Mr. President: With all due respect to the chairman of the Committee on Accounts and Expenditures of the Convention, I think that the members of the Convention would see readily the impropriety of the reference alluded to. There is an issue, it seems, between the chairman of the Committee on Accounts and Expenditures of the Convention and the Secretary of State, upon matters of fact involving that which, of course, is more sacred to any one than all earthly possessions, that is his reputation for integrity in the public capacity in which he is acting. Now, sir, it is not to impugn the motives, either of the chairman or of the committee, but, the invitation extended by the Secretary of State, is very reasonable, when he invites, as he does, an investigation. I am surprised to learn that he has, personally, on repeated occasions, invited attention to his books, attention to everything stated in the office, everything which is made the basis of this report. I presume that, perhaps, he mtyay te mistaken, and that the chairman of the committee had failed to understand him; but of this, I do nst know. It is an issue presented to this Convention, an investigation is inv;.ted, and I, sir, should have moved the appointment of a committee for the purpose of making this investigation, were it not for the fact that it would appear as though I desired to be chairman of that committee, whereas I expressly state that I could nrt be and could not attend to the investigation. It would require the delay of possibly remaining here a day or two after the adjournment, and my anxiety to get away is such that I do not desire to be placed in that position. I will make the motion, however, that a committee of five members of this Convention be appointed, not including myself, to make an investigation of the facts stated by the Secretary of State; and that if this Convention shall have adjourned when that committee has conc l euded its investigation, it be authorized to publish in the State paper, the result of its investigation. This, sir, is eminently fair. It is just. I do not stand here as the defender of the Secretary of State, of the committee, or anybody else. The Secretary of State I have but a mere speaking acquaintance d wwith, and have had no conversation with him upon the subject of this motion that I now make. It is a thought that occurred to me as the only thing that this Convention could do in justice to itself, as well as in justice to the State officer who complains that he has been misused in this matter. Mr. MOORE. Mr. President: I do not wish to enter into any personal contest with the Secretary, and I do not propose to detail any private statements or any private conversation that I may have had with the Secretary or his clerk. If the gentlenian from Cook [Mr. Coolbaugh] were here, and the gentleman from Madison [Mr. Springer]-I see that he is here -they can tell something of one visit. I could tell of one or two others. I felt that there was a studied desire to pass the matter over with a few words; that there seemed to be a disposition to conceal things from the committee and members. I never got the name of the man from whom thes articles were purchased. knowledge; and I have done no act by purchasing articles, renting committee rooms, assigning janitors to the same or otherwise, except upon the express order of the Convention, its members or officers, the same being on file in this office; and in my purchase of furniture, etc., upon said orders, I have boug-ht at as low prices and in quality as inex;)ensive as possible. Mr. Moore's st ateme nt that the prices charged on the books of this office against members of the Convention for stationery as being based, not upon the value or cost of articles themselves, but upon what was presumed would be the generosity or inattention of the members of this Convention, is not only incorrect, but false and malicious. Mr. ROSS. Mr. President: I rise to a question of order. Is it proper for a member of this Convention, or a chairman of one of its committees, to be charged here with falsehood and malice by all officer? Mr. HAINES, of Lake. That question will arise on the disposition of the report. The PRESIDENT. The Chair has no control over a report or communication to this Convention by an officer of the government. If the statement is disrespectful the Convention can decline to hear or receive or enter it upon the record of its proceedings. Mr. ALLEN, of Alexander. Mr. Presidentt: I hope the reading will be concluded. "Mr. MOORE. I hope so too. The PRESIDENT. It is not a statement by a member of the Convention. The Secretary will proceed with its reading. The Secretary proceeded to read as follows: Referring to a special charge made by Mr. Moore, regarding the price of water-coolers, I have to say it was simply a clerical error, the cost having been carried out $50 instead of $25, as it should have been. The mistake is so apparent that it will need only this statement to disabuse the minds of those to whom this explanation is due. The item was entered "two water-coolers, $25," and the clerk, in transferring the same from the memorandum book to the regular day book, made the mistake. Regardin g the extra clerki, mentioned in said report, I would respectfully state, all extra clerks employed in this office during the-session of the Convention, were employed by virtue of a resolution of the Convention, and paid the same per diem as allowed to the different clerks of the several committees, and was considered just and proper. I trust the statement will be received by the Convention as one given with all sincerity and truth; and I would esteem it as a personal and official favor if a committee of investig-ation would be immediately appointed, to whom the report of Mr. Moore, and the books and accounts of this office shall be referred, and to them I look for a full and perf'ect vindication of my official acts. Very respectfully, Your obedient servant, EDWARD RUMNEL, Secretary of State. Mr. ROSS. Mr. President: I move that the communication be referred to the Committee on Public Accounts and Expenditures. Mr. CHURCH. Mr.!resident: That motion would necessarily carry it to a committee of which I am chairman, and my duties and business are such that I should not be able to give it that attention that justice to the officer making this communication demands. Mr. ROSS. I attempted to refer it to the committee of which the gentleman from De Witt [Mr. Moore] is chairman. The PRESIDENT. That is the Com mittee on the Accounts and Expenditures of the Convention. CONSTITUTIONAL CONYENTION WED.NESDAY, 1816 When the gentleman from Cook [Mr. Coolbaugh), the gentleman from Madison ['-'4r. SpriDger] and myself went to see the books, as. a sub-committee, sent by the Committee on Accounts and Expenditures, we found each article down, but the prices were not specified at all. They were in pencil only. I visited his office two or three times afterwards, for purposes of that kind, and I honestly came to the conclusion that there was- no desire to give me any special amount of informationupon the prices or where purchased. I did get the prices from these books: tl-iat was all that I could see, exceptin- the number of articll-es. How I hey got them, of whom they got them, who paid for them, I was never able to ascertain in my investigations. Now, I will here say that, as a gentleinan, I could not afford to make my visits offensive, and that I felt that, after I had been there two or three times, and especially when I had gone there with gentle. men who have warned me that my pres. ence was not as pleasant as was my absence. I will state that the gentlemen whom I have mentioned [iNIr. Coolbaugh, Mr. Sprir,ger] and myself, were appointed a subcommittee to go and examine these things, early in February or late in January. I find as early as December twentythird, an item of this kind. Wilether paid to the gentleman named or not, I do not know, but there was paid to the Western ELigraving Company four hundred and eighty-four dol. lars and fifty cents, for stationery, eiigraviug, etc., furnished through the Secretarv of State. Januarv 19, 1870, to the Wesiera Engraving Cmpahy, for stationery furnished through the Secretary of State, two hundred and four dollars. Whether those articles came through the gentleman named or not, I do not know. I certainly do not intend to do the geutleman any iDjUS'Llice, but I do intend to state the matter just as it happen irrespective of anybody, aild my witnesses are. the members of this Convention. With this explanation, I have nothing more tosay in regard to the communication. Mr. HAINES, of Lake. Mr. Presiderit: I re ard DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. - should express himself forcibly on the c- question. ;s I believe the wisest course is to refer a the matter to the Governor, with a request I that he lay it before the next General Assembly, for' their action thereon. PerI haps the Secretary should be directed to f prefix to the name of the chairman such - necessary titles as pertain to him as chaire man of the committee. e Mr. HAYES. I will not make that mo. t tion, myself. I Would do so cheerfully, e but I think it would come with more propriety from the gentleman from Sana gamon [Mr. Hay], to whose political party the gentleman charged belongs. Mr. WELLS. I hope such a motion will be made. Mr. MOORE. Mr. President: I hope the communication will be referred to - some committee other than the Committee L on Accounts and Expenditures of the Convention, and be referred, just as it is. I would like to hear, on this matter, the gentleman from Madison [Mr. Springer]. who was on the sub committee, and visi ted with us the Secretary's office. Mr. SPRINGER. Mr. President: I do not distinctly recollect the conversation we had with the Secretary of State. I was on the sub-committee to visit the Secreta ry's office, investigate his books, get the prices of stationery, and other articles charged to the members of this. Conven. tion. While there, the gentleman from Cook [Mr. Coolbaugh], I think, did most of the talking. I do not know that I conversed with the Secretary. I believe the gentleman from Cook asked where the stationery was purchased, and the reply, I think, was that it was purchased in the city. That matter, however, was referred chiefly to the clerk employed by the Secretary for that purpose. The Sec retary, however, stated, in my hearing, that he was glad we had come to the office, for he desired this matter should be settled to the satisfaction of the mem bers of the Convention. He was not then in possession of the prices charged for the materials, and I think he stated he did not know just where they were purchased. We did not learn the charges made. He stated he had not received the charges, that the stationery was furnished to be settled for after the quantity received and to be received by the Convention, was ascertained. Mr. WELLS. Were not the prices of stationery reported to this Convention in January or February lasts Mr. SPRINGER.! an speaking of the conversation in the Secretary's office. I want it to be distinctly understood, I 'have no desire to misrepresent the Secretary. My relations with him have been very,,pleasant, We did not get the prices of the articles charged to us. We did not ascertain at the time where the articles were purchased. But afterwards I learned —I do not know whether the commnunication was made to the committee, or how it was made —but, at any rate, I learned where the articles were pur. chased, the terms upon which they were purchased, and the prices. The gentleman from Cook [Mr. Coolbaugh] did most of the conversation and examined the books himself. i think I did not look at them at all, except as to the items furnished me. I found the items all down correctly, but there were no prices made. The clerk in the office made the estimate of what the charges would be. t e Henry [Mr. Church] whether in his opin e ion this Convention will preserve its ex t istence in such a way that a part of it e members will have authority to act as a e committee of investigation after the fina y adjournment? l- Mr. CHURCH. Mr. President: f have no idea that we can delegate any o our powers in regard to Constitution -making to anybody else. But I urge - that the Convention, in order to pieserve r its own reputation in this regard, and ou r of a sense of justice, should authorize ) these facts to be ascertained. - Mr. HAYES. Mr. President: I am - not at all captious or particular in regard '- to the direction of this matter. I think it is due the Secretary of State that there 1 should be an investigation. At the same s time, I consider that the chairman of onet . of the standing committees, in the dis- charge of his duties, has made a report - to this Convention which is entitled to s our respect. While I am disposed to vote - for any disposition of the matter that would give the Secretary of State a fair t opportunity to make a defense, I have some doubt as to what the proper disposiWt tion of the matter should be. p Mr. HAY. Mr. President: Had we not better refer, as we referred the report, to the Governor, to be laid before the next Legislature? Mr. HAYES. Mr. President: I think so myself, decidedly. I am perfectly willing that we should enter upon our journals the communication of the Secre tary of State, if he would strike from it the expressions disrespectful to the chair man of the committee-the charges of a want of truthfulness, and of malice. I observe, also, that the chairman of the committee [Mr. Moore] is named in a dis respectful manner. If the communication be amended in these particulars, I shall be very willing to have it spread upon the journal and published with our re port. I think the suggestion made by the gentleman from Sangamon [Mr. Hay] is a good one. The communication should be presented to the Governer, with the request that it be presented, with the report of the committee, to the Legislature at its next session. I think public opinion will remain suspended until that investigation is concluded, and will wait until that time before it condemns anybody. If that proposition is made, I am willing to vote for it, but will make no opposition to any other mode of investi J gation which may be preferred by the friends of the Secretary of State. Mr. WELLS. Mr. President: I believe there is more danger of the Convention doing injustice to the Secretary of State, than there is of doing injustice to ourselves, the chairman of the committee, or any member of it. We should be very careful how we use the great power which this Convention has, and can exercise to oppress, injure, or do seeming injustice to any one. With regard to the communication of the Secretary of State, I believe that there may be expressions there which a gentleman entirely disinterested might not have used. There may be an omission of titles that gentlemen of this Convention, entirely cool, would not have nneglocted, but we should remember that f where a gentleman conceives his reputation has been assailed in an unjust mant ner, it is only natural to expect that he without necessary expense, and if th4 chairman of the committ ef who has made this report supposed for one moment tha we could sit here during this long time and prosecute the duties which the peopl have imposed upon us, without a ver~ large expense, he cel tVinly has been mis taken in the cailing and necessities o this body. The mistake, if any, made by the See retary of State, is in furnishiug too ex pensive articles. When I applied for stationery, in every instance I applied for a cheap article. I was not accustomed to using stationery of that expensive quali ty offered me, and I remarked to the Secretary that it would make a very great di. ference in the exDense to the State. I had upon my book between three and four thousand names of my constituents to whom I desired to send documents At the rate they were charging for wrap ping paper this expense would be necessarily large, and as it turned out, the stationery alone that I needed for the purpose of informing my constituents of the doings of this Convention, cost about $35. With all the investigation I have made personally, I believe the Secretary of State has intended to do no injustice, and therefore I would be glad to see this select committee appointed with express reference to this investigation, that justice may be done him. It is not right for us to cast this reflection upon a State officer and go away, leaving him remediless in the premises. We must take into account the fact that weare now tr send out to the people what may become the organic law of the State, and have provided an instrument that will double the expenses ofthe State. The instrument which we have prepared ourselves to go into operation as the or ganic law, will be one of the most expensive instruments that has yet been put upon a tax-ridden people; and yet we complain of the small expense in proportion, for the stationery we have been compelled to use in preparing that instrument, which in my opinion will double the expenses and burdens of the people of this State. We have got an ordeal to pass through ourselves in time, and in the years and generations which are to come. Let us not now, while receding from the State capital, put our heel upon a State officer and crush him out, while we ourselves may not be above reproach fromn the people. Let us consider for a moment the rule of the Divine law. It would be cowardly in the extreme for us to thus seek to oppress a man who has no remedy and no means of appearing and making his )wn defense. Mr. SPRINGER. Mr. President: I call the gentleman to order. He has no right to accuse the chairman, or any member of our committee, of cowardice, Perhaps, if he wants to test that question, )ur chairman may be willing to settle it with him. Mr. HAINES, of Lake. Mr. Presid.ent: I have cast no reflection upon any member. I only intimated that it would be wrong if we did not allow the Secretary of State the opportunity of setting himself right, which we can accomplish by a reference to the select commaittee ?roposed. Mr. HAYES. Mr. President: I wish to inquire of the gentleman from. 45 MAY 11, 1870. 1817 1818~~ cOSIUINLC-YNJNWDsA used in the Secrctary's reply. That may be so, or may not. But I do not think this Convention have any power to strike out any words in the communication from the Secretary. It is his own report, the statement of his case to this Convention. It must stand upon its own merits. We received the report of the chairman of the committee without any alterations or amendments (and if my friend [Mr. Moore] will excuse me, that report was pretty severe), and if the Secretary of State has chosen to use some pretty strong words, we have no right to change them. I think these documents ought to go to the Governor, and stand upon their own facts, their own merits, and their own E words. I do not think we ought to occu py five minutes more on this subject. - I move that the communication of the I Secretary of State, in reply to the report e of the Committee on Accounts and Ext penditures of the Convention, bereferred . to the Governor, together with the report of the Committee on Accounts and Ex penditures, with a request that they be - reported to the Legislature for investiga, tion. t The PRESIDENT. There are already two pending motions. a Mr. CHURCH. -Mr. President: The motion of the gentleman from Sangamon - [Mr. Hay], referring the report of the e committee to the Governor, has been acts ed upon. That is the action of the Con,- vention already. This motion is upon L- the reply of the Secretary. But, sir, it is r. not for the ultimate remedy that an imy mediate investigation is sought. Is it f pretended that the reference to the Gov- ernor, to be laid before the Legislature, is t to determine whether the Secretary of s State has been stealing or not? If so, I e would appeal to gentlemen who have spoken so eloquently upon the evils of - the grand jury as being an inquisition, o laying men under charges for high crime, t. and leaving their reputations to suffer for d months and perhaps for years, without an at opportunity for defense, if this be not a parallel case. e I, sir, can see nothing more unjust to e the Secretary of State than to refuse the C- investigation he seeks. It does not in ], volve a question of the power of the o Convention. The Convention do not t- propose to do anything but justify itself m. for the action which it has taken. Charg o es have been made and entered upon the :e journals, and are now in the hands of the te printer. And, gentlemen, even if he or were a private citizen, and not the choice i- of the people of the State by more than )- fifty thousand majority, to occupy the po place that he does; if it were a charge i- made against a private citizen of Spring field or any other town in this State, andt n he should come before this Convention o- and ask it to allow him to vindicate hi: p- character by the same machinery that hag p- assailed his character, the Convention d would put itself in a very singular atti y tude before the world if it should refuse y that request. te Since this Convention assembled every po motion that has been made toward an in mt vestigation has been cheerfully sustained ae by the delegates - Every resolution to in d vestigate the acts of any officer has beer passed immediately. Now, at the vert n close of the session there comes in a re a port-and in regard to that report, and n its sincerity I have not one word to say [s I do not impugn the motives of the chair t 0 t I t r I e t t I CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION WF,DNF,SDAY 1818 The report furnished the Convention afterwards showed that the prices were much lower than what the clerk had told me. There was a difference, I believe, of three or four dollars. It seemed that this matter was left by the Secrttary entirely with the clerk who was employed for that purpose. He was charged with the duty of receiving and giving out the stationery, and he seemed to have entire control of the matter, but he seemed to be conducting the business very loosely and without any regard to the ordinary rules of business transactions. I was forcibly impressed with the evident carelessness with which the business was conducted. The Secretary was not informed, as I said before, of all the facts necessary to satisfy the committee, although he expressed himself gratified that we had called to make an examination. He stated that he would furnish any and all information the committee might desire. While this conversation was gOiDg 0 between the Secretary and the gentlema from Cook [Mr. Coolbaugli] and the sta tionery clery, I was, part of the time talking with Col. Harlow. I asked him some questions about the matter, but h stated that he had nothidg to do with th statio,nery-it was not in his department I will say, that the result of the conver sation was not at all satisfactory to th committee. The stationery clerk wa asked two or three times where the 8ta tionery;was purcha;s(-!d, and we were in formed that it was purchased in this cit We could not ascertain the prices of an of the articles charged to the members o the Convention, or any other.item of in formation we sought to obtain-excep the manner in which the business wa conducted, and such a,- I have befor stated. The committee do not desire to misrep resent the Secretary of State, or to d him an act of injustice in any respect We hope the matter will be investigate, at oiace, and the blame be fixed where i evidently belongs. Mr. PARKS. Mr. President: Th communication from the chairman of th Committee on the Accounts and Expe ditures of the Convention [Mr. Moore] as I understand it, has been referred t the Governor, with instructions to com man of that committee, or any member of that committee, but there have been statements now made that show the necessity of an investigation. This is not a com. mittee that is sought to be continued after the close of the session of the Convention. It would be clearly competent for the Convention to do so, and it would not raise the question of power anymore than would the appointing of a committee to prepare and publish an address after the labors of this CoLvention close. That is entirely unconnected with our duties as members. It is not a matter that the people are to vote upon. I suopose that tl-iis committee could make its investiga tion and report to-morrow morning, or before this Convention adjourns. I will modify my motion so that if the committee should be appointed, and we conclude our labors and adjourn before it can report, as a matter of justice to the State officer who has been assailed, and to the committee that is assailed (because it is even between them), one being an officer of this Convention, and the other an officer of the State, elected by two or three hundred thousand voters, if it can not report before the adjournment, it may publish the conclusions of its investiga. tion. But it would unquestionably re. port to morrow. [Here the hammer fell.] .Mr. HAYES. Mr. President: I hope the motion to refer this communication to the committee that made the report will not be adopted, because there is an issue between that committee and the Secre tary of State. The PRESIDENT. The question is on the motion of the gentleman from Ful. ton [Mr. Ross], to refer the communica. tion to the Committee on the Accounts and Expenditures of the Convention. The motion was not agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is on the reference of the communication to a special committee of five. The yeas and nays were ordered. Mr, HAY. Mr. President: With all due consideration for the reasons that have been adduced by the gentleman from McHenry [Mr. Church] in favor of this proposition, I doubt whether we should adopt it, and believe the reference t of the matter so that it would take the f same course as the report of the Commit -A 1 80 EAE AI RCEIG.11 a PRINTING THE CONSTITUTION. Mr. WELLS. Mr. President: Before s that order is taken up, I desire to call up e a motion made yesterday, to reconsider e the vote by which the resolution present ed by the gentleman from Cook [Mr. f Cameron], with reg a rd to pr inting, was adopted. I desire that that motion be taken up and acted upon now, for the purpose of reconsidering the vote. , By that vote it was yesterday provided that there be printed twenty five thou sand copies in English, and six thousand in German, and two thousand in Scandir navian. Now, there are about two hun dred thousand French in this State Mr. FOX. Mr. President: I object. I call for the special order. The PRESIDENT. The Chair will suggest that a majority may postpone the special order. Mr. WELLS. I move to postpone the special order. The motion was not agreed to. SCHEDULE. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon concurrence with the Committee of the Whole in its amendments to the report of the Standing Committee on Schedule. The first amendment is to the fourth section, by which it was added to section twenty-two of the judiciary article, which the Secretary wi!l read. The Secretary read section twenty-two of the judiciary article, as follows: At the election for members of the General Assembly, in the year of our Lord one thousand eight hundred and seventy-two, and every four years thereafter, there shall be elected a State's attorney in and for each county, in lieu of the State's attorneys now provided by law, whose term of office shall be four years. The Secretary read section four of the report of the Committee on Schedule, as follows: SEC. 4. County courts, for the transaction of county business in counties not having adopted township organization, shall cont inue in existence and exercise their present jurisdiction until the board of county comrn missioners, provided in this Constitution is orgarized in pursuance of an act of the General Assembly. The amendment of the Committee of the Whole was agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon concurrence with the second amendment, by which the word "persons" was inserted in section six, in place of "officers," stricken out. The Secretary read section six of the report of the Committee on Schedule, as follows: SEc. 6. All officers now filling any office or appointment shall continue in the exercise of the duties thereof, according to their respective commissions or appointments, unless by this Constitution it is otherwise directed. The amendment of the Committee of the Whole was agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon concurrence in the third amendment by which tile word "election" was inserted after the word "judicial," in the third line, and the last clause of the section was stricken out. The Sezretary read section seven ofthe report of the Committee on Schedule, as follows: SEc. 7. On the day this Constitution is submitted to the people for ratification, an ele c t tion shall be held for judges of the supreme court in the second, third, sixth and seventh judicial districts designated in this Constitu- 4 tion, at which election, everv person entitled to vote according to the terms of this Constitution, shall be allowed to vote, and the election s hall be otherwise conducted, r eturns made and certificates issued in accordance with the laws now existing for the election of supreme judges. If, upon canvassing the votes for and against the adoption of this Constitution, it shall appear that there has been polled a greater number of votes against than for it, then no certificates of election shall be issued for any of said judges. The amendment of the Committee of the Whole was agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon concurrence in the amendment to section eight, by which were stricken out the words in the eighth line, "No elector shall vote for more than two candidates for circuit judge," and inserting language which the Secretary will read. The Secretary read the words proposed to be inserted, as follows: Each elector shall be entitled to three votes, and may cast them all for one of the candidates for circuit judge, or may distribute them equally or unequally among the candidates. Mr. ANTHONY. Mr. President: I prefer, myself, the section as it was originallv drafted. On consultation with the members of the delegation, I will say to the Convention, that I shall offer no opposition to the section as it was originally drawn. I do not fully comprehend the meaning of the words introduced by the gentleman from Adams [Mr. Browning], and I prefer to have it made just as the original section was reported to the Convention. I ask the Convention not to concur in the insertion of those words. The question being upon concurring with the Committee of the Whole -in the amendment, The yeas and nays were ordered, and, being taken, resulted —yeas 34, nays 33~s follows: YEAS. Fuller, Sedgwick, Gamble, Sherrill, Goodell, Springer, Goodhue, Sutherland, Haines of CookTincher, Haines of Lake,Truesdale, Hart, Tubbs Harwood, Underwood, Hayes, Wagner, Mer riam, Washburn, Moore, Wells, Parker, Wendling, Perley, Wheaton, Pillsbury, Whiting, Ross, Wright-45. YEAS. Abbott, Forman, Allen of Alex. Fox, Anderson, Hankins, Archer, Hay, Browning, Hayes, Bryan, King, Cameron, McDowell, Cody, Moore, Craig, Neece, Cummings, Rice, Dement, Robinson, Ellis, ABSE].T, OR NOT VOTING. Allen of Crwfd,English, Scholfield, Anthony, Hanna, Skinner, Atkins, Hildrup, Turner, Bowman, McDowell, Wait, Brown, Peirce, Mr. President-17. Coolbaugh, Poage, AB SENT, OR NOT VOTING., Allen of Crfd.,English, Poage, Atkins, Hanna, Scholfield, Bowman, Hildrup, Skinner, Brown, Perley, Wait, Cary, Peirce, Mr. President-16Coolbaugh, So the Convention agreed to the amendment of the Committee of the Whole. The PRESIDENT. tFhe question iS upon the second amendment to the eighth section, by which certain words were added to the section. The Secretary will -MAY 11, 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS., 1819 ered by them. If they are confined to -few items, probably they could be inves tigated in a short time. If the charge are multifarious, however, it may tak some considerable time to investigate th matter.. The reason that I urge the reference o the report, is that it is competent for th Legislature, if there are abuses in th office of Secretary of State, not only to investigate and ascertain what they are, but to provide against such abuses in the future by proper legislative remedies. That body will have more time to investigate the matter than we can possibly have in the remnant of time left us. Mr. ROSS. Mr. President: I rise to a point of order. We have no authority to refer anything to any person outside of the Convention. The PRESIDENT. The Chair will not put the question as a question of reference to any person outside of the Convention, if the question shall ever be put to the Convention. The Chair has no doubt that it is competent for the Convention to charge any public officer of the State with. any duty it may see fit to charoe him with, in the proper form, by resolution. Mr. DEMENT. Mr. President: I move the previous question. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the motion to appoint a committee of five to investigate this matter. The yeas and nays have been ordered'. The Secretary will call the roll. The Secretary proceeded to call the roll. Mr. MEDILL (when his name was called) said: There being neither time nor opportunity for investigation, I vote "No." The result was then announced-yeas 45, nays, 21-as follows: Anderson, Baype, Benjamin, Bromwell, Buxton, Cameron, Cary, Church, Codv. Craig, Cross, Cummings, Eldredge, Forman, Fox, Ross,, Sharp, Snyder, Turner. Underood, Vandeventer, Wall, Washburn, Wendling, Wilson, Wrighf-34. NA-YS. Goodhue, Sedgwick, Haines of Cooksheirill, Haines ofLake,S,pringer, Hart, Suthrland, Harwood, Tincher, mccoyl Truesdale, Medill, Tubbs, Me,rriam., Wagn6r, Parker, Wells, - Parks, Wheaton, Pillsbury, Whitin' 83. Anthony, Bayne, Benjamin, Bromwell, Buxton, Church, Cross, Eldredge, Fuller, Gamble, Goodell, WAYS. Abbott, Hankins, Allen of Alex..Hav. Archer,'Kiii, Browning, McCoy, Bryan' Medill,Dement, Neece, - Ellis, Parks, Rice, Robinson, Sharp, Snyder, Vandeventer, Wall, Wilson-21. So the motion of Mr. Church, referring the communication of the Secretary of State to a select committee of five to investigate and report, was agreed to. ORDER OF BUSINESS. The PRESIDENT. The hour has arrived fixed by special order for the consideration of the report of the Committee on Schedule. p 18( COSIUTOA COYNI-WEiED in a less violent and bloody manner than was done by the ordinances of secession in 1861. We do thereby attempt to nullify not merely an actof congress, but nullify an article of the Constitution of the United States. If we should frame a suffrage article here with the word "white" in it, thereby discriminating directly against a class of citizens that have been enfranchised and declared entitled to this right by the supreme court of the land, would it not be an act of nullification? No one will deny but what we would place ourselves in direct hostility to the Constitution of the United States should we do that. Then, sir, is it not a reflection upon us that we offer to do that which the people of the State have not the right to do, that we take the article of suffrage out of the body of the Constitution and submit the question to the people of the State, whether they will assume an attitude of hostility to the Constitution of the United States, whether they will attempt to nullify the Constitution of the United States by a declaration to the world that by the action of this State the federal Constitution is to be nullified? W ould it not be an insult to the people of this State to ask them to vote upon that question.? That question of nullification and secession has been settled, not merely by act of congress, not merely by Constitutions of States, but upon the plains of Gettysburg, and upon the hills around Vicksburg, and in the Wilderness. There is where that doctrine has been settled. Shall we, then, here upon paper, attempt to revive the question? Shall we, by our action as a Convention of a great State, that has had much to do with the settlement of that question, and writing it down in letters of blood, in letters of ink express doubt as to whether it is settled, by asking the people of this State to vote whether they have the right to nullify the Constitution of the United States? I say never, by my vote, shall this right of nullification be placed in doubt. Mr. RICE. Mr. President: I believe the Convention is ready to vote upon this question. I therefore move the previous question. The motion for the previous question was agreed to, and the main question ordered. Mr. FOX. Mr. President: I would ask whether an opportunity will be given for gentlemen to explain their votes when the roll is called? The PRESIDENT. Not under the rules. It is competent for any gentleman to move a suspension of the rules. The rules will be suspended upon a two-thirds vote. The yeas and nays were ordered. The Secretary proceeded to call the roll, when-I Mr. CAMERON (when his name was called) said: I desire, Mr. President to explain my vote. The question is not what shall be submitted, but how? It is not a question of principle that is before us. It is simply one of policy, and viewing the matter thus, I would, at any time, sooner "coax a fool than fight one." We have determined that we will not submit the question of retaining the word white in the suffrage article. We have put our Constitution in perfect harmony with the Constitution of the United The Secretary read the amendment, as follows: If, upon canvassing the votes for and against the adoption of this Constitution, it shall appear that there has been polled a greater number of votes against than for it, then no certificates of election shall be issued for any of said judges. The PRESIDENT. It will be declared agreed to. The question is upon concurrence with the Committee of the Whole in its amendment to section nine, by which "July" was stricken out. The Secretary read the first seven lines of section nine of the report of the Committee on Schedule, as follows: SEc. 9. This Constitution shall be submitted to the people of the State of Illinois for adoption or rejection, at an election to be held on the first Saturday in July, A.D. 1870; and there shall be submitted at the same time, for adoption or rejection The article in relation to railroads. The article in relation to warehouses. The article in relation to counties. The article in relation to Mr. WELLS. I hope that amendment will be concurred in. I believe the report of the committee, as originally made,will please all sections much better than any change. Mr. CHURCH. Mr. President: When I moved to strike out "July," I did so in view of extending the time until past harvest. Being satisfied from the expres sions that were had yesterday, that it is not the sense of the Convention to post. pone election as long as September, the reasons for which I moved to strike out and insert "September" have failed. I am satisfied that "July," the time mentioned by the committee, will be as convenient a time as any other time we shall be able to agree upon, inasmuch we can not agree to postpone it past the harvest. The amendment of the Committee of the Whole to strikeout the word "July," was not agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon concurring with the Committee of the Whole in their amendment by which the word "suffrage" was inserted in line seven. Mr. CHURCH. Mr. President: I hope the Convention will not concur in that amendment-I have been unable to see why it should. I did not know that this amendment had been made in Committee of the Whole. If it were an open ques tionl as to who should enjoy the right of suffrage in this State hereafter, I might, perhaps, B~e induced to consider this ques tion of separate submission a debatable question, as a question of policy of insert. ing it in the C~onstitution, or submitting separately, but my feelings are, that, even then, I should insert it in the body of the Constitution. But the question is settled by authori ties that are above us. It is irrevocable, except by the same powver that has created this right of suffrage. The Constitution of the United States, which is the supreme law of the land, has fixed the status of a certain clas~ of our citizens that heretofore have not en joyed the right of suffrage.. We do not, by this Convention, confer that right, and we cannot, by this Constitution, deny it. We merely recognize the supreme law, as it exists. To attempt to make a discrimination is to place ourselves in hostility to the Con stitution of the United States in a no less Bignificantt manner- although, perhaps CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION WEDNF,SDAY 1820 States. We submit many articles sep 1 — rately, and there are many here who are in favor Of SUbMittiDg everv article in that way. I have felt that the arguments used in favor of such mode of submission have much weight. We do not propose to submit a particular section of the suffrage article, but the article entire, raising no question as to the validity of the fifteenth amendment or the justice of colored suffrage. HaviDg asserted the correct principle of suffra;ge in this article, and having refused to submit any other, I concur with many of my republican friends in thinkidgthat there is no sacrifice of principle, in subMittiDg the suffrage article in the manner proposes, and I believe that it is under all the circumstances proper to do so. Mr. IERRIAlvI (when his name was called) said: I should like to accommodate my friendsfrom the southern part of the State, but having spent three of the best years of my life in a successful attempt to settle the question of the supremacy of the Constitution of the United States, I shall vote "No." Mr. PARKS (when his name was called) said: Mr.. President: In additiion to what was said by the gentleman from MeHeiary [,Mr. Church], I wish to say that this question has not only been settled orL the battle field, but in this State at the polls. The people referred to are already voting, have been voting, will vote at the election on this Constitution, and we cannot help it. Submillting to the people of this State a question whether a people shall be permitted to vote, who have voted already, and who will vote on' the proposition itself, it seems to me will make this Convention look ridiculous. I vote "No." Mr. ROSS (when his name was called) ,said: Mr. President: I desire to say, in explanation of my vote, that I am in favor of submitting this question as an independent proposition, instead of siibmittidg it with the remainder of this Conatitution. I think that under the fifteenth amendment to the Constitution of the United State, the colored population have a right to vote, and we have no right, having taken an oath to support the Constitution of the United States, to make a State Constitution in conflict with it, but I wish zA 1 8T) EAE ADPtCEIG.12 how we can change it in one way or the other. Therefore I shall vote "No." Mr. SEDGWICK (when his name was called) said: Mr. President: I confess I do not take the same view of this subject that my friends do on this side of the house. It seems to me that the word "white" is stricken out of the present Constitution of this State by the adoption of the fifteenth amendment, so that when I read the present Constitution, I now read it with the word "white" stricken out. If it is a fact that our labors in framing the new Constitution are to go for nought merely because we refuse to submit this article separately, it seems to me, from my own judgment, that it would be foolish to refuse to do so, but: out of deference to the judgment of my friends on this side of the house, who think differently, and that their constituents in the northern part of the State will very generally vote against the Constitution, if this article is submitted separately, I vote'No." The result was then announced-yeas, 35, nays, 34-as follows: training t he word "whit e." We had a subsequen t report, a majori ty of the members making it being democrats, acce pting the situation and striking out the w ord "white," whereupon the Convention expressed its opinion that every male citizen o f this State should vote. This action, it seems to me, i s going back upon the position taken upon that quest ion by the Convention-a cowardly going back-an unwillingness on the part of this body to submit with the rest of t he Constitution th e art icle upon suffrage, which we have accepted as being in accordan c e with the spirit of the times. I hav e t o say, sir, before I cast my vote, just one word more. Mr. DEMENT. Mr. President; Will th e gentleman allow me to ask him a question? Mr. WHEATON. I will answ e r the g entle man when I get through. The submission of this separately in my s ection of the country will array hostility again st the C onstituti on, and I for one shall not attempt to stay the hostility if the suffrage article is submitted separately. I vote "No." Mr. WRIGHT (when his name was called) said: Mr. PresideNt: Not believing that the fifteenth amendment has hermetically sealed the mouths of the people of the State of Illinois, I vote "Aye." Mr. BROWNING (before the result was announced) said: M r. President: I was not present when my name was called. I intend to vote, and I take occasion to say that I have no fear that the separ ate submission of the article on suffrage will at all endanger it. I feel confident that it will be adopted if submitted separately. Whether the Constitution be accepted or rejected, that article will probably be accepted even if separately submitted. I believe that by submitting it with the Constitution we will weaken the chances of that instrument being accepted by the people. There are prejudices against it, and however unreasonable they may be it is not wise to ignore them on mere sentiment. We peril nothing by submitting the article separately. We strengthen the Constitution by doing so, and I shall therefore vote "Aye." Mr. DEMENT (before the result was announced) said: One word, as chairman of the Committee on Right of Suffrage, in explanation of the vote that I leave given. It is all explained in this. I am in favor of submitting every article separately, this among the rest, and therefore shall vote "Aye." Mr. ANTHONY (when his name was called) said: Mr. President: I desire to explain my vote. I hold in my hand article fifteen, which is an amendment to the Constitution of-the United States: The right of citizens of the United States to o~t-e shall not be denied or prejudiced by the United States, or by any State, on account of race, color or previous condition or service. I do not conscientiously believe that this State can do anything to contravene that provision of the Constitution of the Unlited States. I do not see how it is possible. If this had occurred before the adoption of this fifteenth amendment, I should have voted for a separate submission of the matter to the people; but as it has been adopted I do notee 456 NEW CONSTITUTION TICKET. For t he n ew Constitution, and for a ll t he articles and sections which are not cancele d with in k or pencil, o n the following t icke t; and against the new Constitution, and such articles and sections as are so canceled thereon, viz: The secon d amendment to section eleven was concurred in. The PRESIDENT. The questi o n is upon the next amendment, w hich is to section tw enty-tw o. The Secretary read the amendment to section twenty-two, as follows: Strike out the words "otherwise provided by law" in third line, and insert the words "the expiration of their present terms." The amendment to section twenty-two was agreed to The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the next amendment, which is to section twenty-three. The Secretary read the amendment to section twenty-three, as follows: Insert after the word "shall" in the first line the words "in lieu of any salary provided in this Constitution." The Secretary read section twenty-three of the report of the Committee on Schedule, as follows: SEC. 23. The judges of all courts of record in Cook county shall receive the compensation now provided by law until the adjournment of the first session of the General Assembly after the adoption of this Constitution. The amendment to section twenty-three was agreed -to. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the amendment to section twentyfour, by which the last clause was stricken out. The Secretarv read the words stricken out in section twenty-four, as follows: This section is hereby adopted as a part of the Constitution of this State, without being submitted to be voted upon by the people. The ainendment to section twenty-four was declared concurred in. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the amendment to section twentyfive, by which it was stricken out. The Secretary read section twenty-five, as follows: SEC. 25. That the county of Lake shall remain unattached to any judicial circuit until action by the General Assembly. The Governor shall appoint some sitable person, who shall be an elector of said county, as judge of the circuit court thereof, for the time being, who shall possess all the powers of a judge of the circuit court. -The amendment by which section twenty five was stricken out was agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the next amendment, by which section- thirty was stricken out. The Secretary read section thirty, as follows:s SEc. 30. The legislation in regard to parlay in Chicago may be amended by special law. The amendment by which section thirty was stricken out, was agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the next amendment, by which seo.~' tion thirty-one was stricken out. The Secretary read section thirty-one, as filow~s: SEC. 31. When this Constitution shall i~ adopted and take effect as the supreme law of' the State of Illi~nois-, the two-mill1 tax provided to be annually assessed and- collected upon each- one dollar's worth: of taxable property in addition to all other taxes, as setforth in article fifteen of the now existin~g Constitution shall cease to be assessed or collected, and said article shall thereafter be null and void. The amendment by which section thirty-one was stricken oult was agreed te. So the amendment of the Committee of the Whole to submit the article on sufrage to a separate vote of the people was agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the next amendment proposed by the Committee of the Whole to the elevent h section, fourth line, by which the word "such" was stricken out, and the words "against all" inserted, The amendment was agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the second amendment to the same section, and to the fourth line thereof. The Secretary read the second amendment to section four, as follows: The words "as are so canceled thereon," stricken out, and the words "which are canceled with ink or pencil on the following ticket" inserted. The Secretary read the first four lines -of section eleven of the report of the Committee on Schedule, as follows: aSEC. 11. At the said election the ballots shall be in the following form. M.&Y 11, 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1821 YEAS. Allen, of Alex. Ellis, Abbott, Forman, Anderson, Fox, Archer, Hankins, Browning, Hayes, Bryan, King, Buxton, M-cDowell, Cameron, Medill Cody, Neece, Craig vice, Cumi'ngs, Robinson, Dement, Ross, Sharp, Snvder. Siriiagr, Turner, - Unde wood, Vandeventer, Wait Washburn, Wendling, Wilson Wright'-35. WAYS. Anthony, Bayne, Benjamin, Bromwell, Cary, Church, Cross Eldr.ehze, Fuller, Goodell, Goodhue, Raines of Cook Haines of LakeP!Ilsbury, Hart, Sedgwick, Harwood, Sherrill, Hay, Sutherland, Hildrup, Tincher, McCoy, Truesdale, Merriam, Tubbs, loore, WaZner, arker, Weir,, Parks, WhecCtonPerley, Whiting-34. A.BSENT OR NOT VOTING. .Allen of Crfd. Atkins, Bowman, Brown, Coolbaugh, English, Gamble, Hanna, eirce, Poage, Scholfield, Skinner, Wall, Mr. - Presiden14. 182 CONSTITUTIONAL GONYENTION WEDNESDAY, The Secretary read section five, as follows: SEC. 5. All existing courts which are not in this Constitution specifically enumerated, shall continue in existence and exercise their present jurisdiction until otherwise provided by law. The PRESIDENT. The section is adopted. The Secretary will read section six. The Secretary read section six, as follows: SEC. 6. All persons now filling any office or appointment shall continue in the exercise of the duties thereof, according to their respective commissions or appointm e nts, unless by this Constitution it is otherwise directed. The PRESIDENT. It will be declared adopted. The Secretary will read section seven., The Secretary read section seven, as follows: SEc. 7. On the day this Constitution is submit ted to the people for ratification, an election shall be held for judges of the supreme court in the second, third, sixth and seventh judicial election districts designated in this Constitution, at which election every person entitled to vote according to the terms of this Constitution, shall be allowed to vote, and the election shall be otherwise conducted, returns made and certificates issued, in accordance with the laws now existing for the election of supreme judges. If, upon canvassing the votes for and against the adoption of this Constitution, it shall appear that there has been polled a greater number of votes against than for it, then no certificates of e lection shall be issued for any of said judges. The PRESIDENT. The section is declared adopted. The Secretary will read section eight. The Secretary read section eight, as follows: SnC. 8. On the day this Constitution is submitted to the people for ratification, there shall be elected three judges of the circuit court in the county of Cook, as provided for in the article of this Constitution relating to the judiciary; at which election every person entitled to vote according to the terms of this Constitution, shall be allowed to vote; and the election shall be otherwise conducted, returns made and certificates issued in accordance with laws now existing for the election of circuit judges: Provided, That at said election each elector shall be entitled to three votes, and may cast them all for one of the candidates for circuit judge, or may distribute them equaily or unequally among the candidates. It; upon canvassing the votes for and against the adoption of this Constitution, it shall appear that there has been polled a greater number of votes against than for it, then no certificates of election shall be issued for any of said judges. Mr. CARY. I do not know that that is a good way to elect judges. I do not say it is not, but without submitting the question to the people, without any direction or indication of any desire for anything of the kind, we are asked to establish a wholly new principle, doing away with our present form of choosing officers and establishingsomething else in its place. I am not saying anything about the principle itself-it may be right. But to make such a radical change as this without submission to the people, and declare it shall be adopted in one county in this State, without any authority at all, I, for one, am opposed to. I am opposed to the principle of placing any county in this po sition, and forcing it upon her, because we have the power -I might almost say, the physical strength-to do so. I, therefore, move to amend by striking out all after the word "judges," in the seventh line. I move to strike out this section. Mr. HAYES. M,r. President: In regard to the two-mill tax, I wish to make an inquiry of th e c hairman of t he Committee on Revenue. I would ask hi m whether or not it will be necessary to have a special provision in the Constitution in order to secure the collection of that part of last year's tax, that may remain unpaid at the time of the adoption of the Constitution. Mr. HAY. Mr. President: I think there is a provision in the schedule that covers that. Probably if the third section were made a little more comprehensive, it would cover it. The PRESIDENT. The suggestion can take the form of an amendment when the section shall have been reached. The question is upon the adoption of section one. The Secretary read section one, as fol lows: That no inconvenience may arise from the alterations and amendments made in the Constitution of this State, and to carry the same into complete effect, it is hereby ordained and declared SECTION 1. That all laws in force at the adoption of this Constitution, not inconsistent therewith, and all rights, actions, prosecutions, claims and contracts of this State, individuals or bodies corporate, shall continue to be as valid as if this Constitution had not been adopted. Section one was agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon section two. The Secretary read section two, as follows: SEC. 2. That all fines, penalties and forfeitures, due and owing to the State of Illinois under the present Constitution and laws, shall inure to the use of the people of the State of Illinois under this Constitution. Mr. HAY. Mr. President:'Probably a$ good a place as can be found for the imendment last spoken of is in this sec tion. I move to insert after the word "fines" the word "taxes." The motion to insert was agreed to. Section two, as amended, was agreed Mr. HAINES, of Cook. I am in favor of what is called "minority repre3entation," except in regard to the judiciary. In a community like ours, where there is a large population aggregated in so small a space as a circuit, it is a dangerous precedent to establish. I do not o bj ect to the language of the original report. Where we are to elect three ju,dges, we may cast our votes for two judges only, but I oppose this free vote in this section under consideration, and for that reason shall vote for the motion to strike out the section. Mr. ANTHONY. Mr. President: I do not understand why gentlemen want to force upon us aprovision couched in such mysterious language. If gentlemen want to experiment upon the body politic, let them commence at some other place. I was willing to vote for the original section, but I do not like the language of the amendment. I trust the Convention will not be carried away so far as to strike out this section. The Committee upon Revision and Adjustment, or somebody, has stricken out of the judiciary article, the provision for the election of the three judges, and if this section is stricken out, we will be left in the same condition that we were before. I trust that the Convention will understand this section and will not deprive us of the judges that have been asked for. This method of electing the judges applies to the first election. In consultation with my colleagues, last evening, we discussed this and I was willing it should stand, though I do not like the words employed by the gentleman from Adams [Mr. Browning], and I should like it very much if these words were withdrawn and it were left as before. I donot like to be constantly explaining to my constituents this vote. Mr. MEDILL. Mr. President: I voted for the amendments of the gentleman from Adams [Mr. Browning], but I had no idea it would awake so much contro. versy. I would prefer to strike out that amendment, and fall back upon the report of the committee, because it will effect the sam-e result, and is a little more easily understood by the people. I believe it to be the general wish of the peo. ple of Cook county, that the judges should be divided between both parties, Mr. CODY. Mr. President: Some reference was made by the gentleman from Cook [Mr. Anthony], to the fact that the portion of the judiciary article relating to the election of judges'in Cook county, had been stricken out. It was transferred to the schedule, because it was a mere temporary provision for one election. I hone the Convention will understand this matter. There is no -other provision in relation to the election of these judges. We have provided in the judiciary article that Cook county shall have these judges, and this section simply p9rovides for their election. It ought not to be stricken out. I hope there will be no dissenting voice against retaining this section. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon striking out the section. Mr. CUMMINGS. Mr. President: I am in favor of having the amendment retained in the section.:1 am in favor of minority representation, ~d wish to see the experiment tried in the most popgu. to. I The PRESIDENT. The question is up on section three. The Secretary read section three, as follows: SEC. 3. Recognizances, bonds, obligations, and all other instruments entered into or executed before the adoption of this Constitution, to the people of the State of Illinois, to any State or county officer or public body, shall remain binding and valid, and rights and liabilities upon the same shall continue, and all crimes and misdemeanors shall be tried and punished as though no change had been made in the Constitution of this State. Section three was agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the adoption of section four. The Secretary read section four, as follows: SEC. 4. County courts for the transaction of county business, in counties not having adopted township organization, shall continue in existence and exercise their present jurisdiction until the board of county commissioners, provided in this Constitution, is organized in pursuance of an act of the General Assembly. At the election for members of the General Assembly in the year of our Lord one thousand eight hundred and seventytwo and every four years thereafter, there shall be -elected a State's attorney in and for each county, in lieu of the State's attorneys now provided by law, whose term of office shall be four years. The PRESIDENT. It'will be declared adopted. The Secretary will read ection five. WEDNESDAY) 1822 CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION MAY 11, 870. DEBTES ~D RO~i~ED1G8. 152 equal parts thereof, among the candidates as he shall see fit. Now, sir, we propose to apply pre cisely the same principle to the election in Chicago. If we are to introduce elec toral reform at all, why not have it uni form throughout the State? Why have one system for all the State outside of Cook county, and another system for Cook county? Is it intended that there shall be in all cases and upon all subjects, something special and peculiar for Cook county, differing from the rules we ap ply to the rest of the State? Is there any other reason for it when the result of the election under the two modes will be identically the same in this particular in stance? If we believe the free camula- l tive system the best, and apply it to the State, why not apply it to Chicago, when it does not affect the particular case to which it is applied? Now, sir, I am opposed to making, in all cases, these discriminations. It see m s to be for the sole purpose of separating Cook county from the rest of the State, and in every instance making something special in its application to her. If it is stricken out, I shall vote for striking out the whole thing. Mr. MEDILL. Mr. President: As acting chairman of the committee that reported this provision originally, I will state that it was agreed upon by the com mittee, and by those specially interested in it as originally reported. I prefer the free ballot myself to the restricted ballot, as I stated yesterday. I voted for the amendment of the gentleman from Ad ams [Mr. Browning]. I was sorry to find that it was objected to by some of my colleagues, and by a very large number of the members on this floor, and out of deference to their objection, there bein g nothing tangible at stake' the result we seek to attain being attained by either method, rather than give offense to my friends and colleagues, I voted to reconsider. I would say one word in reply to a point made by the gentleman from Adams [Mr. Browning]. The legislative method of the free ballot is not imposed upon the people. It is merely proposed and offered to them for their own adoption or rejection. But this case differs in that w e impose a specific method. In the other case it is referred to the people to select or reject it for themselves. In this case it is dictated to them. Hence, I am entirely willing that it shall be placed before them in the manner most easily understood and least objectionable; and in the interest of harmony and economy of time, I hope the original provision will stand, though I am in favor of the free ballot system in preference to any other. Mr. ARCHER. Mr. President: I move to lay the motion to reconsider upon the table. The yeas and nays were ordered, and being taken, resulted-yeas 31, nays 38 -— as follows: NAYS. Haines of LakePillsbury, Hart, Sedgwick, Harwood, Sherrill, Hay, Springer, Hildrup, Sutherland, McCoy, Tincher, Medill, Truesdale, Merriam, Tubbs, Moore, Wagner, Parker, Wall, Parks, Wells, Perley, Wheaton-38. Peirce, Anthony, Bayne, Benjamin, Bromwell, Buxton, Cary, Church, Cross, Dement, Eldredge, Fuller, Goodell, Goodhue, lous city in the State. If we are to have this system adopted throughout the State, it will do no harm to try the experiment in Cook county. If it works well there, it helps the system throughout the State. It is not in an offensive way at all, I make this statement, but I wish to see the experiment tried. I now move to lay the motion to strike out upon the table. Mr. ANTHONY. Mr. President: My objection is only to this amendment introduced bv the gentleman from Adams [Mr. Browning]. Mr. MEDILL. Mr. President: I would inquire if the proper motion would not be to reconsider? The PRESIDENT. That was the suggestion of the Chair. Mr. CUb[MINGS. Mr. President: As I said I want to see the experiment tried, I move to lay on the table the motion to strike out. The PRESIDENT. The question is on the motion of the gentleman from Fulton [Mr. Cummings], to lay on the table the motion to strike out the section. The yeas and nays were ordered, and being taken, resulted-yeas 53, nays 12as follows: ABSENT, OR NOT VOTING. Allen of Crfd.,Gamble, Underwood, Bowman, Haines of CookWait, Brown, Hanna, Whiting, Coolbaugh, Poage,' Mr. President-14. English, Scholfield, So the motion of Mr. Archer, to lay upon the table the motion of Mir. Medill to reconsider, was not agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the motion to reconsider the action of the Convention by which it concurred with the Committee of the Whole. The motion was agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon concurrence with the Committee of the Whole in its amendment to section eight. The amendment was not agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the adoption of section eight as it has been amended. Mr. TINCHER. Mr. President: I move to strike out all after the word "judges," in the seventh line. Mr. ANTHONY. Mr. President: I hope the gentleman will withdraw that. I understand that this applies to the elec tion of the judges under the Constitution the first time. I explained to the Con vention a few minutes ago, that this sec tion was put in without any consultation so far as I am concerned, but I should, for the reasons already given, support the same. I trust that the Convention will allow this section to be adopted just as it is. Mr. TINCHER. Mr. President: I cannot withdraw my amendment. I do not believe the provision ought to be there. I am against the principles in volved in it, and I hope the Convention will strike it out. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the amendment offered by the gen tleman from Vermilion [Mr. Tincher] to strike out after the word "4judges," in the seventh line, the words, "provided that, at the election, no selector shall vote for more than two candidates for circuit judge." The yeas and nays were ordered. The Secretary proceeded to call the roll. Mr. GOODHUE (before the result was announced) said: Mr. President: I am informed that the section, as it is, is entirely satisfactory to the members from Cook county, and, therefore, I desire to cage my vote to "No." The yeas and nays being taken,} resulted- yeas 29, nays 41 —as follows: Allen of Alex.,Fox, Rice, Abbott, Fuller, Robinson, Anderson, Goodell, Ross, Anthony, Goodhue, Sharp, Archer, Haines of LakeSherrill, Bayne, Hankins, Snyder, Benjamin, Hay, Springer, Bromwell, Hayes, Turner Browning, Hildrup, Vandeventer, Bryan, W ing, W agner, Buxton, McCoy, Wall, Cameron, McDowell, Washburn, Cody, Medill, Wendling, Craig, Merriam, Wheaton, Cummings, Parker, Whiting,' Dement, Parks, Wilson, Ellis, Perley, Wright-53. Forman, Pillsbury, ABSENT, OR NOT VOTING. Allen of Cr'fd., Gamble, Skinner, Atkins, Hanna Tincher, Bowman, Peirce, Underwood, Brown, Poage, Wait, Coolbaagh, Scholfeld, Wells, English, Sedgwick, Mr. President-18. So the motion of Mr. Cummings to lay on the tabl t hthe m otion of Mr. Cary to strike out section eight was agreed to. Mr. MEDILL. Mr. President: I now move to reconsider the vote by which the amendment was concurred in to strike out "no elector shall vote for more than two candidates for circuit judge-" and inserting. Ar. BROWNING. Mr. President: If that motion is reconsidered and the amendment stricken out, I shall vote for striking out the original provision in regard to the manner of election. I cannot understand why this opposition to this mode of voting is made by those who profess to be in favor of electoral reform. The result of this particular election would be precisely the same whether we adopt the one mode or the other. We have provided for the State that In all elections of representatives aforesaid, each qualified voter may cast as many votes for one candidate as there are lrepresentatfts to be elected, or may distribute the same, or Abbott, Ellis, Allen of Alex.,Forman, Anderson, Fox, Archer, Hankins, Atkins, Hayes, Browning, King, Bryan, McDowell, Cameron, Neee, Cody, Rice, Craig, Robinson, Cummings, DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 3fAY 11) 1870. 1823 YEAS. NA.YS. Haines of CookNeece, . Hart, Sutherland, Harwood, Truesdale, Moore, Tubbs-12. Cary, Church, Cross, Eldredge, YEA.S. YEAS. Gamble, Goodelf, Hart, rwood, Hildrup mccof" Neece, 'arker, .. e, -e, ?ill ry, .,b0 Ross, 15]4arp, Snyder, Skinner, Turner, Vandevefiter,Washblrn, Weiadling, Wilson, Wright!-31., Bayne,. Benjamin, Bromwell, Browning, Buxton,, Cary, Church, Crosf3, Eldredge, Fuller, Sedgwick, Sherrill, Sutherland, Tincher, Truesdale, Tubbs, Wazner, WCIIS, p Wheaton-22. 182w CO~~~~STITUTIO~~~~AL ()O~~~~VENTIO~~~ WED~~~SDAY,~ ABSENT, OR NOT VOTING. Allen of C'fd. Coolbaugh, Poage, Anthony, English, Scholfield, Bowman, Hanna, Underwood, Brown, Merriam, Wait, Cody, Moore, Mr. President-15. So the motion of Mr. Wheaton, for a call of the Convention, was not agreed to. Mr. BUXTON. Mr. President: I offer the following amendment, to go in after the word "suffrage," in line seven: Also upon the question of striking the word male from said article. And upon that I move the previous question, and call for the yeas and nays. Mr. WHEATON. Mr. President: I move that the Convention do now adjeourn, and upon that I call for the yeas and nays. The yeas and nays were ordered, and, being taken, resulted-yeas 20, nays 45 - as follows: And also the section in relation to the Illi. nois Central railroad tax - The section in relation to the rem ova l of county seats; The section in relatio n to minority representation; a nd The section in relation t o municipal subscriptions to railroads or private cor pora - tions. Every person entit led to vote und er th e provisions of this Consti tution, as de fined in the article in relation to suffrage, shall, on said first Saturday of July, A. D. 1870, beentitled to vote for the adoption or rejection of this Constitution, and for or against the articles and sections aforesaid, separately submitted; and the said qualified electors shall vote at the usual places of voting, unless otherwise provided * and the said election shall be conducted according to the laws now in force regulating elections: Provided, however, that the polls shall be kept open for the reception of ballots until sunset of said day of election. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the adoption of the amendment of fered by the gentleman from Clinton [Mr. Buxton]. Mr. HAINES, of Cook (in his seat). Mr. President: Let the amendment be read. The Secretary read the amendment of fered by Mr. Buxton, as follows: Add after the word "suffrage," in the sev enth line, the words, "and also the question of striking out the word'male,' from said ar ticle. " Mr. WELLS. Mr. President: I call for a division of the question. The PRESIDENT. The amendment, as the Chair understands, relates simiply to the question of striking out the word "male" from the suffrage article. The question is not divisible. The yeas and nays were ordered. The Secretary proceeded to call the roll. Mr. PARKS (when his name was call ed) said: Mi. President. I understood that this question was settled finally by the Convention a few days ago. I have always voted in favor of submitting the question of female suffrage to the people ["Object;" "object"], but, sir, after the Convention has passed upon it three times —["Object;" "object;" "I object."] The PRESIDENT. Objection is made to the explanation, and theChair must enforce the rule. Mr. PARKS. If I understood the question, then-["Object," ".object," and laughter]. The PRESIDENT. The gentleman is not in order. Mr. PADRES, I am only asking the President of the Convention the question before us. If I understand the question before the Convention, those who are in favor of submitting the question of female suffrage —["object;" "..question"] to the people to be voted upon separately — ["object," and laughter], I vote "Aye." [Laughter.] The PRESIDENT. The Chair will state that the gentleman is correct in his conjectures. [Laughter.] Mr. PARES. And those who are op. posed to it vote "No." I vote "Aye.' [Laughter.] M,. BAYNE (when his name was call -ed) said. Mr. President: A few days ago — ["O bject."'] Mr. B AYkqE. No explanation, gentle. men, whatever. I only ask to be excused on the ground that I papired off with the gentleman from Clark [Mr. Scholfield] on this question. [ Leave, ~ object,' "ex cuse," "object."] Abbott, Fox, Ross, Allen of Alex,Goodhue, Sharp, Anderson, Haines of Co'k, Snyder, Anthony, Hankins, Skinner, Archer, I-Hay, Springer, Atkins, Hayes, Turner, Bryan, King, Vandeventer, Cameron, McDo well, Wall, Cody, Medill, Washburn, Craig, Merriam, Wendling, Cummings, Moore Whiting, Dement, Perley, Wilson Ellis, Rice, Wright-41. Forman, Robinson, ABSENT, OR NOT VOTING. Allen of Cr'fd,ecainesofLake,Scholfield, Bowman, Hanna, Underwood, Brown, Parks, Wait, Coolbaugh, Poage, Mr. President-13. English, So the motion of Mr. Tincher to strike out all after "judges," in the seventh line was not agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the section, and it will be declared adopted. the question is on section nine. The Sec ret ary rea d section nine, as follows: SECi. 9. This Constitution s hall be submitted to the people of the State of Illinois for adoptio retion or rejectio n at an electio n t o be held on the firs t Saturday in July, A. D. 1870, and there shall be submitted at the same time, for adoption or rejection -The article in r elation to railroads; The article in relation to warehouses; The article in relation to counties; The article in relation to suffrage; And also the section in relation to the Illinois Central Railroad tax; The section in relation to the removal of county seats; The section in relation to minority representation; and, The section in relation to municipal subscriptions to railroads or private corporations. Every person entitled to vote under th; e provisions of this Constitution, as defined in the article in relation to "suffrage," shall, on said first baturday of July, A. D. 1870, be entitled to vote for the adoption or rejection of this Constitution, and for or against the articles and sections aforesaid, separately submitted and the said qualified electors shall vote at the usual places of voting, unless otherwise provided; and the said election shall be con ducted according to the laws now in force regulating elections: Provided, however, that the polls shall be kept open for the reception of ballots until sunset of said day of election. Mr. WHEATON. I move a call of the Convention, and on that I call for the yeas and nays. The yeas and nays were ordered, and being taken, resulted-yeas 29, nays 39 as folmoa s: Abbott, Ellis, Sedgwick, Allen of Alex.,Fox, Sharp, Anderson, Fuller, Snyder, Archer, Gamble, Skinner, Atkins, Haines of Lake,Springer, Bayne, Hankins, Tubbs, Bromwell, Hayes, Turner, Browning, Hildrup, Vandeventer, Bryan, McDowell, Wagner, Buxton, Neece, Washburn, Cameron, Parker, Wells, Cody, Perley, Wendling, Craig, Rice, Whiting, Cummings, Robinson, Wilson, Dement, Ross, Wright-S45. So the motion of Mr. Wheaton to adjourn, was not agreed to. Mr. WHEATON. Mr. President: I move to lay the motion for the previous question on the table. The PRESIDENT. The motion is not in order. The previous question has been moved. Shall the main question be ordered? The motion of Mr. Buxton for the previous question was agreed to, and the main question ordered. Mr. WHEATON. Mr. President: I call for the yeas and nays. Mr. GOODHUE. Mr. President: I call for the reading of the section and the amendment. The PRESIDENT. The Secretary will read the section, together with the amendment to the seventh line. The Secretary read section nine, together with the amendment offered by Mr. Buxton, as follows: SEC. 9. This Constitution shall be submitted to the people of the State of Illinois for adoption or rejection, at an election to be held on the first Saturday in July, A. D. 1870 and there shall be submitted at the same time, for adoption or rejection The article in relation to railroads The article in relation to warehouses; The article in relation to counties The article in relation to suffrage, and also the question of striking the word "male" from said article; Haines of CookPeirce, Hart, Pillsbury, Harwood, Sedgwick, Hay, Sherrill, Hildrup, Sutherland, McCoy, Tincher, Medill, Truesdale, Parker, Tubbs, Parks, Wheaton-29. Perley, CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION WF,D-.qESDAY, 1821 WAYS. YEAS. Haines of Colk,Pillsbury, Hart, Sherrill, ]Elarwood, Sutherland, I McCoy, Tincher, Aferriam, Truesdale, Prks, Wheaton-20. Peirce, Benjamin, Cary, Church, Crosr,, Eldredge, Goodell-' Goodhue, NAYS. ABSENT, OR N Allen of Orlfd.,Forman, AnthOD IHanna, Bowman: Hav, Brown, I King, Coolbaugh, Medill, English, Moore, OT'VOTING. Poage, Scholfield, Underwood, Wait, Wall, Mr. President-18. YEXS. Bayne, Benjamin, i Cary, - Church, Cross, Eldredge, Fuller, Gamble, Goodell, Goodhue, WAYS. Ellis, Snyder, Porman, Skiii-ner-, ?ox, Springer, laines of LakeTurne Hankins, Vande'venter, Ilayes. Wagner, Kifiz.' wall, McBwell Washburn, Neece, Wells, Rice, Wendling, Robinson, Ross, Sharp, Abbott, Allen of Alex. Anderson, Archer, Atkins, Bromwell, ]3row'ning, Bryan, Buxton, Cameron, Craig, Cummings, Demnt, MAY 11, 1870. DEBATES AD PROCEEDINGS. 1825 ABSENT, OR NOT VOTING. Allen of Cwfld,Parks, Truesdale, Bowman, Peirce, Underwood, Brown, Poage, Wait, Coolbaugh, Scholfield, Wall, English, Skinner, Mr. President-16. Hanna, So the motion of Mr. Cross to adjourn was not agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the adoption of section nine. Mr. HART. I move to strike out. The PRESIDENT. No motion is in order, the previous question having been ordered. Mr. WHEATON. I call for the yeas and nays upon the adoption of the section Mr. McCOY. Are we acting under the previous question, or the gag law? The PRESIDENT. Under the previous question. Mr. McCOY. I did not know but we were acting under the gag law. The PRESIDENT. The gentleman has no right to characterize any of the proceedings of the Convention by such names. The yeas and nays were ordered, and being taken, the result was announced to be-yeas 37, nays 36. The correct result was-yeas 36, nays 36-as follows: Benj amin, H art, Bromwell, Hildrup, Buxton, King Cody, McCoy Craig, McDowell, Cummings, Merriam, Fuller, Parker, Gamble, Perley, Goodell, Pillsbury, Haines ofLake,Ross, NAYS. SCHEDULE. Mr. CAMERON. Mr. President: I rise to a question of privilege or of order. I do not, upon an examination which I have made of the list, concede tha t there is any error upon the part of the Secretary. I find tha t the discrepancy in th e count occurred in consequence of the gent leman from Lake [Mr. Haines] having been counted in both columns as having voted both "Yea" and "Nay." It is a fact known to every one who heard him that he voted "Aye" in open Conventionbut subsequently I learn that advancing privatel y to the Secretary, he d e sired that officer to have his name counted in the column of "Nays." The Secretary complied with his request without striking his name from the "Yeas." The question of orde r that I rais e is this, tha t the only vot e tha t the gentleman ga ve (as h is vote c ould not be counted twice) wa s the vote given by him in open Convention, and not that given privately to the Secretary. The f urther question of orde r that I raise is, th at n o one can privately go the Secretary and change hi s vote without the fact be ing known to the Convention, and that the refo r t e othe vote of the gentl eman from Lake must be counted as voting "Yea." Mr. HAINES, of Lake. Mr. President: The Secretary id an officer of the Convention, and it is a rule well understood, established and in force here that each member before the vote i s announced has perfect cont rol, so to speak, over the record which shall be made in regard to his vote. If he makes a mistake he is at liberty to correct it himself; and if the gentleman from Cook [Mr. Cameron] wishes to know how I voted, I will say to him I voted "No." The Secretary has so made the record. That is a record which he cannot by parole dispute, certainly as against my views on the subject, and I see no way that the gentleman, by any rule of law or of order, can correct my vote. Mr. TURNER. Mr. President: If there is an inflexible rule whereby what is done is done, the vote has been. announed- thirty-six, thirty-seven-and the rule would apply just as much in one case as in the other. I think the point of order is well taken, that while any gentleman has a right, before the vote is announced, to change his vote, he must do it by addressing the Chair, being recognized by the Chair, when, having hms name called, he may change his vote; but he cannot vote one way and then privately go up to the Secretary's desk and have his vote carried over to the other side. Mr. HAINES, of Cook. Is it not a fact that all these names were readl in Convention, that the yeas and nays were all read, and that the gentleman from Lake was found recorded " nay?" Mr. TURNER. If the gentleman had ~ changed his vote in the ordinary moile he Allen, of Alex. Ellis, Rice, Abbott, Forman, Robinson, Anthony, Fox, Sedgwick, Archer, Goodhue, Sharp, Atkins, Haines ofCook,Skinner, Browning, Hankins, Springer, Bryan, Harwood, Truesdale, Cameron, Hay, Turner, Cary, Hayes, Vandeventer, Church, Medill, Wall, Cross, Moore, Wells, Dement, Neece, Wilson-88. Eldredge, Parks, Allen of Crfd., Coolbaugh,. Scholfield, Anderson, English, Underwood, Bayne, Hanna, Wait, Bowman, Peirce, Wendling, Brown, Poage, Mr. President —15. So the amendment offered by Mr. Buxton was not agreed to. Mr. CROSS. Mr. President: I move that the Convention do now adjourn, ["No." "(No."] The yeas and nays were ordered, and being taken, resulted-yeas, 24, nays 43 -as follows: Ha ine s of Cook,Pillsbury, Haines of Lake,Sedgwick, Hart, Sherrill, Harwood, Sutherland, Hay, Tincher, Hildrup, Truesdale, McCoy, Tubbs, Merriam, Wagner, Parker, Wait, Parks, Wells" Perley, Wheaton, Peirce, Whiting-36. ABSENT, Ok NOT VOTING. Allen of Crfd.,English, Scholfield, Bowman, Hanna, Underwood, Brown, Moore, Mr. President-il. Coolbaugh, Poage, ' Section nine was declared agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the adoption of section ten. ADJOURNMENT. Mr. FORMAN. Mr. President: I move that the Convention do now adjourn. The mo tion was ag reed to. So the Convention (at twelve o'clock and twenty one minutes) adjourned. Cross, Medill, Eldredge, Merriam, Gamble, Parker, Goodell, Pillsbury, Goodhue, Sherrill, Haines ofCook,Tubbs,'': Hart, WellsI McCoy, - Wheaton-24. Abbott, Haines of Lake,Sedgwick, Allen of Alx'n, Hankins, Sharp, Anderson, Harwood, Snyder, Archer, Hay, Springer, Atkins, Hayes,'' Sutherland, Browning, Hildrup, Tincher, Buxton, Ki ng, MTur ner, Cameron, McDowell, Vandeventer, Craig, Moore, Wagner, Cummings, Neece, Washburn, Dement, Perley, Wendling, Ellis, Riee, Whiting, Forman, Robinson, Wilson, Fox, Ross, Wright-43. Fuller. WEDNESDAY, May 11, 1870. The Convention met at two o'clock r. M., and was called to order by the President. SCHEDULE. The PRESIDENT. Immediately after the an nouncemen t of the vote of the Convention upon the adoption of section 457 MAY 11) 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1825 The PRESIDENT. It is the right of any gentleman to agreu with any other gentleman inot to vote upon any givein question. The gentleman is therefore excused. Mr. PARKS. Mr. President: I would like to know how my name is recorded. The PRESIDENT. It is recorded I'Aye." Mr. PARKS. Mr. President: On the question-["Object," "Object,"]-of subMittiDg female suffrage-["Object'.']-to the people, I wish to vote "No." Mr. PEIRCE (before the result was announced). Mr. Cresident: I promised to pair off with the gentleman from Gal latin [Mr. BowD3an] sometime ago upon this question. It escaped my i-niild until just now. I desire that my vote be stricken out. The result was then announced-yeas 80, nays 38-as follows: nine this morning, the Secretary called the attention of the Chair to an error in the summing up of the vote. The Chair has examined the record of yeas and nays, and finds that there was 9-n error. He is compelled, therefore, to recall the announcement that the section had been adopted, and to, state to the Convention that there is a iie- yeas thirty-six, iaays thirty-six-which leaves the question as if no announcement -of the result had been made. YEAS. Sherrill, Snyder, Sutherland, Tincher, Tubbs, Wagnr, Washburn, Wheaton, Whit!nZ WrighiC,30. YEA,S. Abbott, Dement, Allen of Alex., Ellis, Anderson, Forman, Archer, Fox, Atkin Hankins, Bro"ni.g, Hayes, Bryan, King,' Buxton, McIY6well, Cameron, Medill, Cody, Neece, Craig, Rice, Cummings, Robinson, Ross, Sharp, Snyder, Skinner, pringer, '.Uurner,I Vandeventer, wall Wasburn, Wendling, Wilson, Wright-36. NAYS. ABSENT, O-R NOT VOTING. Anthony Bayne, Benjamin, Bromwell, Cary, Chluieh,. Cross, Eldredze, FtLIler,Gambfe, .Goodell, Goodhue, YEA9. Anthony, Baype, Benjamin, Bromwell, Bryan, Car Ch.yr'e,h, Cody. NAY9. A FTERNO ON SESSION. 1S6 COXSTITUTIOAL COVENTIO WEDNESDAY, control over it, and does not wish to put himself upon the record by his vote, as giving any implied assent to the doctrine, that upon that question the people of the State have any power whatsoever. There is another reason that he may well assign for casting his vote. It is that this question has been a disturbing and exciting one, and he believes the time has come when it is important that the people of this State should direct their attention to more important questions, than the question of suffrage in its present status. He believes that they hav e been long enough diverted f rom the discussion of the more important questions, by the consideration of that subject. He looks upon the question as settled, and he, therefore, prefers that the article should be inserted in the body of the Constitution, and not submitted separately. He will, therefore, be constrained to give his vote against the adoption of the s ection, hoping that, hereafter, the question may assume some such fo)rm as will bring the Convention to an agreement upon the question. He therefore votes "No." tMr. BUXTON. Mr. President: I would inquire if it would be in order to offer a section in place of a section that has been rejected by the Convention? The PRESIDENT. A separate section that shall differ in material parts from the section upon which the Convention has acted, will be in order at the proper time. Mr. BUXTON. I will read the section I have prepared to take the place of the one that has been rejected: SEC. 9. Each article of this Constitution, except the legislative, executive and judiciary articles, which shall be voted on together, shall be submitted separately to the people of the State of Illinois for adoption or rejection, at an election to be held on the first Saturday in July, A. D. 1870; and there shall be submitted at the same time for adoption or rejection, The section in relation to the Illinois Central railroad tax The section in relation to the removal of county seats B The section in relation to minority representation; The section in relation to municipal sub scriptions to railroads or private corporations; and The question of striking the word " male" from the suffrage article. Every person entitled to vote under the provisions of this Constitution, as defined in the article in relation to "suffrage" shall, on said first Saturday of July, A. D. 1870; be en titled to vote for the adoption or rejection of each art ier of this Constitution, and for or against the sections and questions aforesaid separately submitted; and the said qualified electors shall vote at the usual places of vot ing, unless otherwise provided;:nd the said election shall be conducted according to the laws now in force regulating elections: Pro vided, however, that the polls shall be kept open for the reception of ballots until sunset of said day of election. Mr. HAINES, of Cook. Mr. President: As that will require a little machinery, I move that the section be referred to the Committee on the Schedule, with instruc B tions to prepare a ballot for the separate submission of each article of the Consti tution to the electors of the State. Mr. BUXTON. Mr. President: That would be done if the substitute should be adopted. The PRESIDENT. The question is on the motion of the gentleman from Cook [Mr. Haines]. Mr. GOODHUE. Mr. President: I move to lay the substitute on the table. - Mr. BUXTON. Mr. President: I call for the yeas and nays. The PRESIDENT. The Secretary will read the sub stitute which it is proposed to lay upon the table. The Secretary re ad the sub stitute offe re d by Mr. Buxt on, as fo l low s: Each article of this Constitution except'the legislative, executive and judiciary articles, which shall be voted on together, shallbe submitted separately to the people of the State of Illinois for adoption or rejection, at an election to be held on the first Saturday in July, A. D. 1870; and there shall be submitted at the same time, for adoption or rejection The section in relation to the Illinois Central Railroad tax; The section in relation to the removal of county seats; The seetion in relation to minority representation; The section in relation to municipal subscriptions to railroads or private corporations; and, The question of striking the word "male" from the suffrage article. Every person entitled to vote under the provisions of this Constitution, as defined in the article in relation to "suffrage," shall on said first Saturday of July, A. D. 1870, be en-titled to vote for the adoption or rejection of each article of this Constitution, and for or against the sections and questions aforesaid, separately submitted; and the said qual. ified electors shall vote at the usual places of voting, unless otherwise provided; and the said election shall be conducted according to the laws now in force regulating elections: Provided however, that the polls shall be kept open for the reception of ballots until sunset of said day of election. MIr. TURNER. Mr. President: I would ask whether that does not include that very article we are now consideringthe article reported by the Schedule Committee? Mr. BUXTON. Only a portion of it, Mr. President. The yeas and nays were ordered, and, being taken, resulted-yeas 42, nays 28as follows: was correct, and had a right to do it. I know nothing regarding the facts in this case. I simply state parliamentary law, assuming tha t what wa s stated by t he gentleman from Cook [Mr. Cameron] is c or rect. If I vote "Yea" on a question, I cannot change my v ote in an y other way than by addressing the Chair, and having my Dame called, so that every one may know how I vote. Mr. CHURCH. The yeas and nays were read at the request of myself. I called for the reading, lest there might, have been some mistake, and I think there has been no change on the record since then. Mr. HAINES, of Lake. It is precisely as the gentleman from Oook [Mr. Cameron] says. I voted on the other side. When my name was called I voted "Yea;" but afterwards said to the Clerk "I desired to vote the other way." That was before the vote had been announced. Mr. CAMERON. Mr. President: Without taking up the time of the Convention, I desire to state explicitly the point of parliamentary law raised by me, so that the Chair can pass upon it. It is this: that the gentleman from Lake [Mr. Haines], having voted in open Convention "Yea," and that vote being properly recorded in the "Yea" column, and having subsequently, through the Secretary, privately had his name entered in the "Nay" column, polled two votes as a necessary consequence. One of the votes having been expunged from the list, I hold the vote recorded in open Convention is the vote which he properly cast, and that no other can be counted. In view of the importance of the question at issue, and the state of the vote, I desire a decision. I wish to know whether, in the event of a gentleman voting twice, his private vote or his open one is to be counted. The PRESIDENT. The Chair does not regard the point of order as well taken, for the reason if such were the rule (arid of course every rule of parliamentary law is a general rule) it might result in the minority controlling the majority. In this instance itmay be true that a member chat?ged his vote, and not in open Convention. It is, however, also true that the list was read by the Secre tary, and the record stated in accordance with the vote ultimately given by the member, at the Secrefary's desk. The Chair must, therefore, overrule the questionl of order. It becomes the duty of the Chair to give the casting vote upotn this questiol~, and in accordance with usage, the Chair will state the reasons for the vote it is about to give. Hte does lnot regard the question of the separate submission of the suffrage article as involving anly impor tant principle. He regards the fifteenth amendment to the Constitution of the United States, as having settled the question. H~e believes it to be the fundamental law of the land, and al so that the government of the United States is abundanutly capable of en forcinzg that law; and does not, there fore regard it, as gentlemen upon both sides of the Convention seem to think it, a question involving material principle. At, the same titme he should vote for the separate submission of tide article to the p~eople, by that vote he would impliedly admit that the people of the State of Illi nois have some control over the question. H~e does not believe that they have any such ABSENT, OR NOT VOTING. Allen, of Crw'dCoolbaugh,' Poage, Bowman, English, Scholfield, Brown, Hanna, Skinner, Bryan, Peirce, Mr. President-13. Cody, So the motion of Mr. Goodhue, to lay on the table the substitute offered by Mr. Buxton, was agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is on the adoption of the tenth section, and the Secretary will read. The Secretary read section ten,,as follows: SEC. io. The Secretary of State shall, at least twenty days before jhid election, cause I r t 8 CONSTITUTIONAL CON'VENTION WF,DNESDAY, 1826 YEAS. Hart, Harwood, Ilay, Hildrup, N eco.. IY.'edil7l; A.erriam, - Moore, Parke'r, Parks, Perley, Rice, Sedgwick, Sherrill, Anthony, Baype, Benjamin, Bromwell, Browning, Cameron, Cary, Church, Crosis, Eldredz6, Fuller,-' Goodell. Goodhue, Hankins, I Snyder, Spri"ger, I S.thrl..d, Tincher, Truesdale, Tubbs. Turner, Vandeventer, Wa,-ner, wai-t, wall. weiii, Wheiton, Wright-0. WAYS. Abbott, Forma, Pillcbury, Allen of Alxl n,Fox, Robinson, Anderson, Gam'ble, Ross, Archer Haines of CookSharp, Atkins: Haines of LakeUnderwood, Buxton, Hayes, Washburn, Craig, KiDg, Wendlinx. Cummi,ngs, McDowell, Whitinz.' Dement, Neece, Wilso,28. Ellis, MA 11 187 DEAE M ROEIG.1z upon its adoption, ancl it was not adopted. Mr. CHURCH. Mr. President: I would move that the Committee on Schedule be instructed to frame a sec tion. The PRESIDENT. The proposition is not in order. A motion was made to reconsider the action of the Couven tion. A motion has been made to lay that motion upon the table, and it is not debatable. Mr. CHURCH. I submit, Mr. Presi dent, that the motion was not made in order, as there had been no such question acted upon as that which the gentleman moved to reconsider. I rose to a question of order upon +hat. The PRESIDENT. The Chair has en tertained it as a motion to reconsider the action of the Convention, by which it rejected the section. Mr. HAINES, of Lake. Mr. President: Inasmuch as this question is going to make debate, and as I want to get home some time-I am not going to stay here a great while longer, anyhow-I will with draw my motion to reconsider. Mr. TURNER. Mr President: I renew my motion to refer the section to the Committee on Szhedule, that they may prepare such a provision as may be necessary for the submission of the Constitution. oThe motion of Mr. Turner was agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the twelfth section. The Secretary read section twelve, as follows: SEc. 12. The returns of the whole vote cast, and of the votes for the adoption or rejection of this Constitution, and for or against the articles and sections respectively submitted, shall be made by the several county clerks, as is now provided by law, to the Secretary of State, within twenty days after the election; and the returns of the said votes, shall, within five days thereafter, be examined and canvassed by the Auditor, Treasurer and Secretary of State or any two of them, in the presence of the Governor, and proclamation shall be made by the Governor, forthwith, of the result of the canvass. Mr. TURNER. As that refers especially to these other sections, I will ask that that may be referred to the same committee. The motion was not agreed to. Section twelve was agreed to. EXCUSED PROM SERVING ON A COMMIT TEE. Mr. (ROSS. I would ask to be excused from serving on the Committee on Schedule. Mr. HAINES, of Cook. I obiect. Mr. BENJAMIN. That would leave it, I think, without a quorum. The PRESIDENT. The Chair will put the question upon the request of the gentleman from W nnebago [LMr. Cross] that he be excused from serving on the Committee on schedule. A division was ordered. The Convention divided, when, there being thirty three in the affirmative and ten il the negative, Mr. Cross was ex cused from serving on the Committee on Schedule. SCcHEDULE, AGAIN. Mr. MEDILL. Mr. President: The Committee on Schedule instruct me, in compliance with the instructions of the Convention, to report the fillo'wing secqion to carry out the provisions of section eleven. to be delivered to t he several county clerks, blank poll-books, tally-lists, and forms of return, and twice the number of properly prepared printed ballots for the said election that there are voters in such counties, the expense whereof shall be audited and paid as other ublic printing ordered by the Secretary of State, is, by law, required to be audited and paid; and the several county clerks shall, at least five days before said election, cause to be distributed to the board of election, in each election district, in their respective counties, said blank poll-books, tally-lists, and forms of return, and tickets. Mr. FOX. Mr. President: I move to strike out the word "tickets" wherever it occurs in section ten. The motion was not agreed to. Mr. KING. Mr. President: I cannot see the necessity for having section ten here at all now, and I move to strike it out. The motion was not agreed to. Section ten was agreed to. The Secretary read section eleven, as follows: SEC. 11. At the said election the ballots shall be in the following form: The PRESIDENT. The report will be received and read. The Secretaryreead sectio n nine of the schedule, as follows: SEc. 9. This Constitution shall be submitted to the people of the State of Illinois, for adoption or rejection, at an e lection to be held on the first Saturday in July, A. D. 1870, and there shall be submitted at the same time, for adoption or rejection, The article in relation to railroads; The article in relation to warehouses; The article in relation to counties; And also the section in relation to the Illinois Central railroad tax; The section in relation to the removal of county seats; The section in relation to minority representation; and The section in relation to municipal subscriptions to railroads or private corporations. Every person entitled to vote under the provisions of this Constitution, as defined in the article in relation to'suffrage," shall, on said first Saturday of July, A. D. 1870, be entitled to vote for the adoption or rejection of this Constitution, and for or against the articles and sections aforesaid, separately submitted; and the said qualified electors shall vote at the usual places of voting, unless othwise provided; and the said elections shall be conducted according to the laws now in force regulating elections: Provided, however, that the polls shall be kept open for the reception of ballots until sunset of said day of election. Mr. WELLS. Mr. President: I move the adoption of the section, and upon that motion I demand the previous question. Mr. HAYES. Mr. President: I ask the gentleman to withdraw that motion, in order that I may move to strike out "July," and insert "August," and that we may see whether we cannot get a later date. ["No!" "No!"] Mr. WELLS. Mr. President: I insist upon my motion. The motion for the previous question was agreed to and the main question was ordered. The yeas and nays were ordered, and being taken resulted-yeas 45, nays 23as follows: NEW CONSTITUTION TICKET. For the new Constitution, and for all the articles and sections which are not canceled with ink or pencil, on the following ticket; and against the new Constitution, and against all articles and sections which are canceled with ink or pencil, on the following ticket For the new Constitution. For article entitled railroads. For article entitled warehouses. For article entitled counties. For Illinois Central railroad tax. F or minority representation. For three-fifths vote to remove county seats. For prohibiting municipal subscriptions to Railroads or Private Corporations. The parts of said tickets which are not canceled by the electors shall be counted and returned by the judges of elections as cast for this Constitution, and for the articles and sections separately submitted, as aforesaid; but the parts of said tickets that are canceled shall be counted and returned as against such articles and sections as are thus separately submitted. Mr. TURNER. Mr. President: I move that this section be referred to the Committee on Schedule, that they may prepare what will be absolutely necessary. In order to put the machinery in motion, I ask that section eleven be referred, with instructions, to the committee, to prepare what may be necessary for the submission of the Constitution. Mr. MEDILL. Mr. President: I would say, Mr. President, that section eleven, as it stands now, corresponds precisely to the requirements of the ninth Section, as acted upon by the Convention. It is suggested that the ninth section is stricken out. Do I understand that to be the case? The PRESIDENT. Section nine was rejected. Mr. MEDILL. Then'here is no form of submission provided for by the Convention. Mr. HAINES, of Lake. Mr. President: I move to reconsider the vote by which secton nine was stricken out. I do not care to press it now, but I would like to have it entered. Mr. ATKINS. Mr. President: I move to lay the motion to reconsider upon the table. The yeas and nays were ordered. Mr. CHURCH. Mr. President: My recollection is that section nine was not stricken out, but was defeated when the question was upon its adoption. The PRESIDENT. The question was YEA,S. Abbott, Cummings, Allen of Alex.Dement, Anthony, Eldredge, Archer, Fuller, Bayne, Gamble, Benjamin Goodell, Bromwell, Goodhue, Browning, Hart, Buxton, Harwood, Cameron, Hildrup, Cary, King, Church, Medill, Cody, Merriam, Craig, Moore, Cross, Parker, Anderson, McCoy, Vandeventer, Atkins, McDowell, Wait, Ellis, Neece, Wall, Forman, Pillsbury, Washburn, Fox, Rice, Wendling, Haines of Co'k,Ross, Wilson, Hankins, Sharp, Wright-23. H ay es, Sny der, ABSENT, OR NOT VOTING. Allen of Crfd. English, Scholfield, Bowman, Haines of L'k, Truesdale, Brown, Hanna, Underwood, Bryan, Hay, Wagner, Coolbaugh, Poage, Mr. President-15. So section nine of the schedule was agreed to. Mr. MEDILL. The Committee on Schedule, to whom was referred section eleven, also instruct me to report back the following substitute therefor. MAY 11) 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1827 Parks, Perley, Peirce, Robinson, Sedgwick, Sherrill, Skinner, Springer, Sutherland, Tincher, Tubbs, Turner, Wells' Wheaton, 4, Whiting- 5. NAYS. Anderson, McCoy, Atkins, McDow, ell, Ellis, Neece, Forman, Pillsbury, Fox, Rice, Raines of Colk,Ross,. Ilankins, Sharp, Hayes, Snyder, 188 cOSTITUTIOAL c'OYETIO WEDNESDAY, Mr. PILLSBURY. Mr. President: I desire to offer an amendment. Insert in line five these words, "for judiciary article." Mr. BROWNING. Mr. President: Have we not already had a vote on that? The PRESIDENT. An independent resolution was moved by the gentleman from Fulton [Mr. Ross]. This is in a different connection. Mr. DEMENT. Mr. President: I move the previous question upon the amendment and upon the section. The motion for the previous question was agreed to, and the main question ordered. Mr. ANTHONY. Mr. President: I move that the amendment be laid upon the table. The motion was agreed to. So the amendment offered by Mr. Pillsbury was laid upon the table. certified, shall be forthwith transmitted by the Secretary of State so each county clerk, fordistribution. The PRESIDENT. The section will be declar ed ado pted. The Secretary will read the fifteenth se ction. The Secretary read section fifteen, as follows: SEC. 15. The districts shall be regularly numbered by the Secretary of State, commencing with Alexander county as No. 1, and pr o ceedi ngt thence norp i th atv rough the State, and terminating with the county of Cook; but no county shall be numbered as more than one district, except the county of Cook, which shall constitute three districts, each embracing the territory contained in the now existing representative districts of said county. And on the Tuesday after the first Monday in November, A. D. 1870, the members of the first house of representatives under this Constitution shall be elected according to the apportionment fixed and announced as aforesaid, and shall hold their offices for two years, and until their successors shall be elected and qualified. The PRESIDENT. The section will be declared adopted. The Secretary will read the sixteenth section. The Secretary read section sixteen, as follows: SEC. 16. The senate, at its first session under this Constitution, shall consist of fity members, to be chosen as follows: At the general election held on the first Tuesday after the first Monday of November, A. D. 1870, two senators shall be elected in districts where the terms of senators expire on the first Monday of January, A. D, 1871, or where there shall be a vacancy, and in the remaining districts one senator shall be elected. Senators so elected shall hold their office two years. The PRESIDENT. The section will be declared adopted. The Secretary will read the seventeenth section. The Secretary read section seventeen, as follows: SEC. 17. The General Assembly, at its first session held after the adoption of this Constitution, shall proceed to apportion the State for members of the senate and house of representatives, in accordance with the provisions of the article on the legislative department. Mr. CARY. Mr. President: It strikes ime that there is a mistake here; perhaps not. The legislative article provides that the apportionment of the house of repre. -sentatives shall be made by the Secretary of State. I submit it is by the Legislature. - Mr. MEDILL. Mr. President: The provision in the legislative article referred to is for the first Legislature. -After that the apportionment is to be made by the Legislature. The PRESIDENT. The section will be declared adopted. The Secretary will read the eighteenth section. The Secretary read section eighteen, as follows: The Clerk read the substitute, as follows: SEc. 11. At the said election the ballot shall be in the following form: NEW CONSTITUTION TICKET. For the new Constitution, and for all the articles and sections which are not canceled with ink or pencil on the following ticket; and against the new Constitution, and such articles and sections as are so canceled thereon, viz: For the new Constitution. For article entitled railroads. For article entitled warehouses. For article entitled counties. For Illinois Central Railroad tax. For minority representation. For three-fifths vote to remove county seats. For prohibiting municipal subscriptions to railroads or private corporations. The parts of said tickets which are not cancel ed by the electors shall be counted and returned by the judges of elections as cast for this Constitution, and for the articles and sections separately submitted, as aforesaid; but the parts of said tickets that are canceled shall be counted and returned as against such articles and sections as are thus separately submitted. Mr. HAYES. I move to amend the section reported, by inserting after'Constitution," in the third line, the words, "and against all the articles and sections which are canceled with ink or pencil on the following ticket." The PRESIDENT. The amendment proposed by the gentleman is the amendment adopted in the Committee of the Whole. Mr. BROMWELL. If this is to be the form of the ticket, it seems to mei the word "and" ought to be stricken out in the second line. I make a motion to that effect. The motion of Mr. Bromwell was agreed to. Mr. McCOY. I move to strike out line eleven, in section eleven relating to a three-fifths vote to remove a county seat; and on that I call for the yeas and nays. The yeas and nays were ordered, and being taken, resulted-yeas 18, nays 43as follows: COMMITTEE OF INVESTIGATION. The PRESIDENT. The question is on the adoption of the section. It will be declared adopted. The question is on the thirteenth section. The Chair will interrupt the proceedings here to Lame the committee which was directed this morning to be appointed, in accordance with the motion of the gentleman from McHenry [Mr. Church]. The committee will consist as follows, of Messrs. Hay, Fuller, Wells, Cummings and Hankins. The Secretary will read the thirteenth section. S CIIEDULE-AGAIN. The Secretary read section thirteen, as follows: aiEC. 13. If it shall appear that a majority of all the votes polled are for this Constitution, it shall be the supreme law of the State of Illinols on and after Monday, the 8th day o f August, A. D. 1870; but if it shall appear that a majority of the votes were not cast for s a id Constitution, it shall be null and void. If it shall further appear that a majority of the votes polled shall have been given for either ot the articles and sections separately submitted, then such articles and sections receiving said majority of votes, shall form and constitute a part of the Constitution, and shall be substituted for those articles and sections of the Constitution with which they conflict, except the section relating to minority rep- I resentation, which shall not be declared adopted, unless this Constitution shall be adopted; and those articles and sections which shall not have received a majority of the votes cast, shall be null and void. The PRESIDENT. The section will be declared adopted. The Secretary will read the fourteenth section. The Secretary read section fourteen, as follows: SEC. 14. Immediately after the adoption of this Constitution, the Governor and Sec retary of State shall proceed to ascertain and fix the apportionment of the State for mem bers of the first house of representatives under this Constitution. The apportionment shall be based upon the federal census of the year A. D. 1870 of the State of Illinois, and shall be made strictly in accordance with the rules and principles announced in the article on the legislative department of this Constitution: Provided, that in case the federal census aforesaid cannot be ascertained prior to Friday, the 23d of Se,ptember, A. D. 1870, then the said apportionment shall be based on the State census of the year, A. D. 1865, in accordance with.he rules and principles aforesaid. The Governor shall, on or before Wednesday, the 28th of September, A. D. 1870, make official announcement of the said apportionment, under the great seal of the State; and one hundred copies thereof, duly NAYS. Goodell, Snyder, Raines of C'k, Skinner, Haines of L'k, Springer, Ha yes, Sutherland, Hildrup, Truesdale, King, Tubbs, McDowell, Turner, Moore, Vandeventer, Neece, Wagner Pillsbury, Washburn, Rice, Wells Robinson, Wendling, Ross, Whiting, Sherrill, Wright-43. A,BSENT OR NOT VOTING., Allen of Cr'fd.,English, Perley, Anderson, Fox, Poage, Anthony, Hankins, Scholfield, Bowman, Hanna, Sedgwick, Brown, Harwood, Sharp, Bryan, Hay, Underwood, Cary, Madill, Mr. President-22. Coolbaugh, So the motion of Mr. McCoy, to strike out line eleven of section eleven of the report of the Committee on Schedule, was not agreed to. SEC. 18. When this Const itution shall be ratified by the people, the Governor shall forthwith, after having ascertained the fact, issue writs of election to the sheriffs of the several counties of this State, or in case of vacancies, to the coroners, for the election of all the officers, the time of whose election is fixed by this Constitution or schedule, and it shall be the duty of said sheriffs or coroners to give such notice of the time and place of said election as is now prescribed by law. The PRESIDENT. The section will be declared adopted. The Secretary will read section nineteen. The Secretary read section nineteen, as follows: SEc. 19. All laws of the State of Illinois, and all official writings, and the executive, legislative and judicial pr~eedings shall be WF,Dl'TF,SDAYI CONSTIT'UTIONAL CONVENTION 1828 YEA.S. Abbott, Goodhue, Allen of Alex.,Hart, Atkins, McCoy, Cody, Merriam, Eldredge, Parker, Bills, Parks, 0 Peirce,. Tinch'er, wait, Wall, Wheaton, Wilson-18. er, Bayne, Benjamin, Bromwell, Browning, Buxton, Cameron, Church, Craig, Cross, Cummings, Dement, Forman, Fuller, Gamble, MAY 11, 1870. DEBATES AD PROCEE1)IGS. 1829 what was done in Committee of the Whole, unless some amendment was made. Mr. ANTHONY. I move to lay the amendment upon the table. The motion was agreed to. Section twenty-three was agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is -upon the adoption of section twenty four. The Secretary read section twenty-four, as follows: SEc. 24. All lands which have been granted as a "'common" to the inhabitants of any town, hamlet, village or corporation, by any person, body politic or corporate, or by any government having power to make such grant, shall forever remain common to the inhabitants of such town, hamlet, village or corporation; but the said commons, or any of them, or any part thereof, may be divided, leased or granted, in such manner as may hereafter be provided by law, on petition of a majority of the qualified voters interested in such commons, or any of them. Mrr. TIIN ER. I move to strike out all after "corporation," in the fourth line. I do it for the reason that public parks and places may be of vital interest to the people, and yet certain authorities may lease them. If there be a common, we want to preserve it. Mr. ATKINS. I move to strike out the whole section. Mr. SKINNER. Mr. President: It strikes me, from hearing the reading of this section, that it ought not to be in the Constitution. The paramount authority of the State, under a well known and certain principle of law, ought not to be taken from the Legislature, and it strikes me that such a limitation in the future would be very injurious and should be rejected. We ought not to meddle with it. conducted, preserved and published in no other than the English language. The PRESIDENT. The section will be declared adopted. Thle Secretary will read section twenty. The Secretary read section twenty, as follows: Goodhue, Sedgwick, Haines of CookSherrill, Haines of LakeSnyder, Hart, Skinner, Harwood, Springer, Hay, Sutherland, Hildrup, Tincher, King, Truesdale, Medil, Tubbs, Merriam, Turner, Moore, Wagner, Parker, Wait Parks, Wells, Perley, Wheaton, Pillsbury, Wright-46. I SEC. 20. Nothing in this Constitution shall prevent the General Assembly from passing such laws in relation to the apprenticeship of minors, during their minority, as may be necessary and proper. Mr. ANTHONY. Mr. President: I see no reason for that section. i have seen nothing in this Constitution, up to this date, adopted, that would prevent the General Assembly from passing laws in regard to minors or apprentices. I think this is entirely unnecessary, and only makes the schedule so much longer. Mr. MEDILL. I copied it from the old Constitution-or this committee did. That was the reason for it. Mr. ANTHONY. I know-it is a mere copy of the Cons titution, and unnecessary. I move to strike it out. Mr. CODY. -ir. President: I believe the gentleman was a member of the Con stitutional Convention of 1862. Why was it inserted at that time? Mr. ANTHONY. I have no recollection about it. i believe it is now wholly unnecessary. Mr. ATKINS. Mr. President: I hope the motion of the gentleman from Cook [MIr. Anthony] will prevail. The rule of law is settled beyond all question, that a Constitution is, as to the General Assembly, a mere restriction upon the power. The General Assembly has authority to exercise all the legislative power of the State, except so far as it is specially limited. This section confers no power on the General Assembly. The authority already exists to do all provided for in this section.'There is no sense or reason in this at all, except on the assumption or hypothesis that the Constitution, as to the legislative department, isa grant of power, which is a fallacy, as every lawyer knowr. Mr. SKINNER. Mr. President: I can see no possible reason for the insertion of these words-no conceivable reason for their being in this instrument. The PRESIDENT. The question is on the motion of the gentleman from Cook [Mr. Anthony] to strike out the twentieth section. The motion was agreed to. Mr. WASHBURN. Mr. President: I move to insert, in lieu of the section stricken out, the following words, and upon that I move the previous question. The Secretary read the substitute offered by Mr. Washburn, as follows: ABSENT, OR NOT VOTING. Allen of Crfd., English, Poage, Bowman, Hanna, Scholfield, Brown, Hayes, Underwood Coolbaugh, Peirce, Mr. President-13. Craig, So the motion of Mr. Wheaton to lay upon the table the substitute offered by Mr. Washburn for section twenty (strick en out), was agreed to. The Secretary read section twenty-one, as follows: SEC. 21. The General Assembly shall pass all laws necessary to carry into effect the provisions of this Constitution. Section twenty-one was agreed to. The Secretary read section twenty-$,o, as follows: SEC. 22. The circuit clerks of the different counties having a population over sixty thousand, shall continue to be recorders (ex officio) for their respective counties, under this Constitution, until the expiration of their present terms. Section twenty-two was agreed to. The Secretary read section twenty-three, as follows: SEC. 23. The judges of all courts of record in Cook county shall, in lieu of any salary provided in this Constitution, receive the compensation now provided by law until the ad. journment of the first session of the General Assembly after the adoption of this Constitu tion. [. Mr. FOX. I wish to offer the following substitute: The judges of all courts of record in Cook county (until otherwise provided by law) shall receive as compensation for their services the same amount, to be paid in the same manner as is now provided by this Constitution shall be paid circuit judges.. Mr. CARY. I do not know as the gentl eman from Schuyler [Mr. Fox] is aware of what the effect of his substitute would be, if adopted, but my understanding is that it would require the salary of the county judge of Cook county to be paid out of the State treasury. I move to lay the substitute on the table. The motion was agreed to. Mr. PILLSBURY. I move to strike out the words "Cook county" and insert "the State " Mr. TURNER. I rise to a point of order. That amendment was yesterday v oted upon in Committee of the Whole. The PRESIDENT. The gentleman is right in point of fact, but the point of order cannot be sustained, inasmuch as the Convention can take no notice of The motion of Mr. Atkins to strike out section twenty-four, was agreed to. Mr. WHEATON. Mr. President: I would like to inquire what has become of section twenty five? The PRESIDENT It was stricken out in Committee o f the Whol e. Th e Secretary read sec tion twenty- five, as follows: SEC. 25. That the county of Lake shall remai unattached to any judicial circuit until action by the General Assembly. The Governor shall apponit some suitable person,who shall be an elector of said county, as judge of the circuit court thereof, for the time being, who shall possess all the powers of a judge of the circuit court. -- Mr. WHEATON. Mr. President: That leaves Lake county without any court. Mr. MEDILL. Mr. President: I have a substitute for section twenty-five, which was stricken out. The Secretary read the substitute offered by Mr. Medill, as follows: The present judge of the circuit court of Cook county shall continue to hold the circuit court of Lake county, until otherwise provided by law. The substitute, offered by Mr. Medill, for section twenty-five, was agreed to. Mr. ANTHONY. Mr. President: I will ask what the position of the Convention is on section twenty-four 9 The PRESIDENT. It was stricken out. Mr. ANTHONY. I wish to substitute the following section for it. The Secretary read the substitute, offerred by Mr. Anthony, for section twentyfour, as follows: No public park or grounds, which have been dedicated to public use, to be kept open and unoccupied, shall ever be sold or leased. The General Assembly shall have no power to repeal or so change the existing laws of this State, as to permit persons of color, either negroes or mulattoes, of either sex, to be joined in marriage with any white person, male or female, in this State. Mr. WHEATON. I move to lay the substitute on the table. The yeas and nays were ordered. The Secretary pro:eeded to call the roll. Mr. SKINNER (when his name was called) said: Mr. President: I ask leavl to explain my vote. This provision would be utterly useless, as I view the statutes and laws of the land. I therm fore vote to lay on the table. 458 I t s t t s 0 i a a e 6 t -NIAY 11) 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1829 The result was then announced-yeas 46, nays 24-as follows: YEAS. Anthony, Bayne, BeDjamin, Bi-omwell, Browning, Buxton CameroL, Cary, Church, Cody, tclross, enient, Eld'7edge, F.Iler, Gamble Goodell, N.&YS. Abbott, Forman Allen of Alex.,Fox, Anderson, Hankins, Archer. McCoy,' Atkins, McDowell, Bryan, Neece, Cummings, Rice, Ellis, Robinson, Ross, Shar-P Vatide'venter, Wall., Washburn, W,,.dlingl Wilsoia, Wright-24. 183 COSIUJNL(OY-INWDEDY The Secretary read section twenty-sevn, as follows: SEC. 27. No county, city, town. township, or other municipality, shall ever become subcriber to the capital stock of any railroad or private corporation, or make donation to, or oan its credit in aid of, such corporation: Provided, however, that the adoption of this article shall not be construed as affecting the right of any such municipality to make such subscriptions where the same have been authorized, under existing laws, by a vote of the people of such municipalities, prior to such adoption. This section shall be submitted separately to the electors of this State; and if it shall appear that a majority of the votes cast are for prohibiting such subscriptions to railroads and private corporations, then said section shall be a part of the Constitution of this State; but if it shall otherwise appear, then this section shall be null and void. Mr. HAINES, of Lake. I rise to a point of order. The sections have all been adopted by the Convention. Mr. HAYES. The sections were adopted by the Convention, and went to the Committee on Revision. They have not incorporated them in the Constitution, for the reason that they belonged to the schedule. They have been sent to the Committee on Schedule and reported to the Convention for final action. Mr. MEDILL. They came to the Co- mmittee on Schedule from the Committee on Revision, and we placed them here as we received them. Mr. BENJAMIN. There seems to be an inconsistency in regard to our action, with reference to sections twenty-six and twenty-seven. At the close of section twenty-six, commencing with line nine, we have stricken out a provision in regard to the submission ot the article, but commencing with line seven, of section twhty-seven, we have a similar pr)visiona which I move tohave stricken out. The PRESIDENT. The point of order raised by the ge ntlema n from Lake [Mr. Haines] is perfectly applicable at this time. The gent lema n f ro m McLean [Mr. Benjamin] moves to strike out matter which the Convention h as al ready inserted. The gentleman's object can only be accomplished b y a reconsideration, under a suspe n sion of the rul es, of t h e action by which t he Convention adopted th e section. Mr. BENJAMIN. Then I move to The motion of Mr. Benjamin was not agreed to. Section twentys tsentn was a gre ed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is on section twenty-eight. The Secre tary read section twentyi eight, as follows: SEC. 28. The hous e of r epresentatives sh ai a consist of three times the number of the mem bers of the sen ate, and the term o f office shaC be t wo years. Three representati ves s hall bat elected in each sena torial district, at the gent eral election in the year A. D. 1872, and ever) two years thereafter. In al elections of rep. resenturines aforesaid, each qualified voter may cast as ma ny votes Cor one cand idate an there are representatives to be elected, of a tay distribute the sa me, or equal parts there of, among the candidates, as he shall see fit and the candidates highest in votes shall be declared elected. This section shall be submitted separately to the electors- of this State, and if it shall appear that a majority of the votes cast are for "minority representation," as provided for in said section, then said section shall be part of this Constitution, and sh~11 be substi tuted for sections seven and eight of the arti cle on the legislative department; blut if it shall otherwise appear, then this section shall be null and void. Mr. SKINNER. Mr. President: The same question is repres e nted in substance e that wa s contain ed in the section which t he C onve n tion struck out. o The PRESIDENT. The Chair had s pa ssed to the subsequent sections, and I cannot en tertain the proposition until it shall come u p in it s ord er at th e close of the ar t icle. r Mr. BROMWELL. Mr. President: The s substitute just adopted, provides that I the present judg e of Cook county shall a hold the cour t until o therwise provided by l aw, which, in case of death o r resig- t nation, leaves that county w i thout a judg e. I move that the word "present" be stricken out. Mr. HAINES, of Lake. Mr. President:The only difficulty is, we are to have a great many judges of the circuit court of Cook county when this Constitution takes effect. Lake county will be stricken off entirely from that circuit, and there will be no judge to hold court. The object of the section is to continue over the judge of the present circuit court. The Secretary read section twenty-six, as follows: SEc. P,6. No contract, obligation or liabil ity whatever of the Illinois Central Railroad company to pay any money into the State treasury, nor any lien of the State upon or right to tax property of said company, in accordance with the provisions of the charter of said company, approved February 10, 1851, shall ever be released, suspended, modified, altered, remitted, or in any way or manner diminished or impaired, by legislative or other authority; and all moneys derived from said company, after the payment of the State debt, shall be appropriated and set apart for the payment of the ordinary expenses of the State government, and for no other purposes whatever. This section shall be submitted separately to the electors of this State; and if it shall appear that a majority of the votes cast are for said section, then it shall be a part of this Constitution; but if it shall otherwise appear, then this section shall be null and void. Mr. BENJAMIN. Mr. President: I am inclined to think, as was suggested yesterday in the Committee of the Whole, that this section had better be placed in some miscellaneous article in she body of the Constitution. We have already adopted it. I move to strike out from the schedule, section twenty-six. e Mr. HAYES. Mr. President: I should like to understand the effect of that mo tion. Mgr. BENJAMIN. I will explain. It was suggested in Committee of the Whole yesterday, that sections twenty-six and twenty-seven were both adopted in Con ventionl, and that a more apprfopfriate place would be in the body of the Constitution. Mr. CODY. Mgr. President. The C~om mittee on Revision and Adjustment, by working this morning until one o'clock, have completed their labors, so that they are ready to report the balance of the Constitution, except this schedule. I am waiting now to report, and it seems to me that unless there is a manifest improprie ty in having these sections where they are, it would be better to strike them out. Mgr. ARCHER. I move to lay the mo tion to strike out on the table. The motion of Mr. Archer was agreed Mr. ALLEN, of Alexander. Mr. President: I would like to know whether there is an y provision for the submission of section twenty-seven to the pe ople separately. I was not here when the vote was taken. aMr. AR CHER ( in his s eat). It is in line twelve, of section nine. The PRESIDENT. Section twentyeight having been adopted by the Convention, the only question is whether it shall remain in the sohedule where it is, and it will so remain. The Secretary read sec tion twenty-nine, as follows: SMHc. 29. At the time the amendments to the Constitution, prepared by this Convention, are submitted to a vote of the e lectors of the State, the following pr oposition shall be submitted to be voted o e t e upon as a separate propostion: "For a three-fifths vo te to remove a county seat." "Against a three-fifths vote to remove a county seat." If a majority of the votes cast at such elec tion shall be for a three-fifths vote to remove a county seat, then the words "a majority," shall be stricken out of section four of the article on counties, and the words "three fifths" shall be inserted in lieu thereof, and the following words shall be added to said section, to wit: "But when an attempt is made to remove a county seat to a point nearer to the center of the county, then a majority vote only shall be necessary." And in case this Constitution shall be rejected by the electors at said election, then said section four shall become a part of the Constitution of 1848, in place of section five, article seven, on counties; but if the foregoing proposition shall not receive a majority of the votes as aforesaid, then the same shall have no effect whatever. Mr. DEMENT. Mr. President: Is it the decision of the Chair that the Con vention will have no further control over this section until it goes to the Committee on Revision and Adjustment? The PRESIDENT. The Chair only decides that the Convention having adopted this section, the only question now before the Convention is whether it shall remain in the schedule. When the question whether the section shall be enrolled comes up, the Conven tion may determine whether it shall or L shall not be enrolled. An amendment would not then be in order. Mr. DEMENT. Are amendments in order? Mr. WHEATON. Mr. President: I b think the Convention is limited to con sidering whether the section shall be at tached to the schedule report. l The PRESIDENT. The Chair thinks that the section was adopted, but to save -doubt the records will be produced. Mr. DEMENT:. Mr. President: I only desire to have the floor in case the secticn 1is subject to amendment. l Mr. WALL. Mr. President: I believe Dthat while the Convention may have adopted the section at another time, perYhaps the same section substantially, it is r yet competent for the Conlvention to say s whether this section shall remain a part r of the schedule. ;.The PRESIDENT. The Chair ine tended to have stated more fully that the question properly before the Convention Yis whether this should remain a part of 1the schedule or not. But if the Conven ti~on have adopted the section, it is not s ubj ect to amendment at the present time, L-and there can he no question of that naL-ture upon it, otherwise any work of the i Convention might be reconsidered, indi rectly. t e v 8 a a t t 0 b s c st t s CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION WF,DN-ESDAY 1830 to. So the motion of Mr. Benjamin, to strike out section twenty-six, was laid on the table. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the section, and it will be declared adopted. The questio4_i's upon section wenty-seveii. MAY~~~ 11 8T.DBT- ~ RCID~~13 vass for its adoption. One ground will be that we have provided for an increased number of officers and for higher salaries. There is, for illustration, an increased number of members of the General As sembly provided for, with increased com pensation. All these, and similar rea sons, will, it will be claimed, cause in creased taxation. To answer and meet this objection, and satisfy the people that this Constitution will not in the aggregate impose heavier taxes than the old one, it will be important to use the fact that the two-mill tax will no longer be assessed and collected under the new Constitution, and that a burden of over $900,000 per year will therefore be taken off of the people by its adoption. Mr. TINCHER. Mr. President: I hope this question will be understood by the Convention. If it be true that without this article the State can go on and collect the two-mill tax, I want to know it, for the people desire to get clear of this tax. I shall be governed in my vote on this section by what the legal gentlemen may say. If striking out section twenty-one leaves the two-mill tax to be collected under the old Constitution, I want to know it, and reinstate that section. Mr. HTTAYES. Mr. President: I think there is much force in the suggestions that have fallen from the gentleman from Morgan [Mr. Atkins]. Even if the effect be the gkme, it should appear expressly in the Constitution what we have done with the two-mill tax. Therefore this section should not be stricken out, because it will be a notification to the people of what has deen done with the twomill tax. I hope the motion of the gentleman from Morgan [Mr. Atkins] will prevail, to reconsider the vote striking out that section, and, if necessary to make its meaning?clear, that it may be amended, and then be adopted. Mr. WALL. Mr. President. I agree with the gentleman in relation to this matter. In fact, I believe that the section was originally proposed by myself in the Schedule Committee.. It seems to me that it will be unsafe not to adopt something in the schedule on this subject. The people desire to get rid of this two-mill tax, and do not want any ambiguity about it. I fear that there would not only be ambiguity, but that very great and grave doubts might arise as to whether the two mill tax would not remain to be assessed and collected hereafter, unless we expressly state the contrary in the schedule. While I would not wish to say that the tax would remain unless expressly set aside, yet such a construction might be given, and we should preclude all ambiguity, and place the matter beyond all possible doubt. bn Mr. HAY. Mr. President: I agree with the gentleman from Morgan [Mr. Atkins] as to the propriety of an affirmative declaration in the schedule as to the e two-mill tax. The Committee on Revenue would have reported on that subject u but for the understanding that that would fall within the domain of the Finance Committee, and hence took no action upon the subject. However, I do not entirely agree in the premises with the gentleman from Morgan [Mr. Atkins] as to the effect of not expressing anything upon the subject in this Constitution. I Mr. DEMENT. A propo sition to amend, Mr. President, would not then be in order? The PRESIDENT. It would not. The question is on the adoption of the section, and it will be -declared adopted. The next question is upon the thirtysecond section. Both the thirtieth and thirty-first sections have been struck out. Mr. ATKINS. Mr. President: I desire to substitute section thirty-one as reported by the committee in lieu of that struck out. The PRESIDENT. The object of the gentleman can be reached by moving a reconsideration of the vote by which the Convention concurred in the amendment of striking out. Mr. ATKINS. Mr. President: I move then to reconsider the vote. It will be recollected by the members of this Convention that section thirty-one was on yesterday stricken out in the Committee of the Whole, but from the discussion it appeared that no gentleman on the floor was really opposed to this section on principle. A question arose in debate whether or not that section should apply to the two-mill tax assessed for the year 1870, or whether it should immediately abolish the two-mill tax. That point was sprung and a motion was made to strike out the section,which in a moment of confusion was suddenly carried. It seems to me, Mr. President, that that action was ill-advised, erroneous, and ought not to stand. I know of no part of the Constitution, unless it be that in regard to prohibiting the release of the Illinois Central railroad seven per cent. tax, that will command more strength for the Constitution we are about to submit than the section to which I am referring. That it is desirable to get rid of the two mill tax must be admitted, and in all the counties in which I am acquainted there is a strong feeling in favor of doing so. The only suggestion that caused the striking out of this section was that the two-mill tax would not be required to be collected hereafter, even if section twentyone were not adopted-that it would cease with the ratification of this Constitution, and in effect be abrogated by its adoption. That suggestion seems to me to be entirely a mistaken one, for every provision of the existing Constitution that we do not change, will necessarily continue and be left in force hereafter. To illustrate: we have adopted an article upon counties to be submitted to the people separately. Suppose the people should vote it down, but adopt the rest of the Constitution. Will it be claimed that the article upon counties in the present Constitution will not still continue in force? I hold that every article or provision in the present Constitution which we do not change or abrogate, will remain in full and unimpaired force after the adoption of this Constitution, except in so far as they are necessarily inconsistent with it. If then we desire to longer prevent the assessment and collection of the two-mill tax, we must so declare and provide in this Constitution. The report of the State Auditor shows that this two-mnill taxs yields nearly a million of dollars a year of revenue. That sum is a very heavy burden upon the taxpayers of the State. This Constitution will be attacked on every conceivable ground during the can I t I i t s t MAY 11, 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1831 think the effect of the adoption of the Constitution, without saying anything about it, would be to repeal it, but at the same time that is a matter to be reasoned on, and the people want to understand the thing expressly on the face ot the Constitution as to whether that tax has been repealed or not. Hence I think it would be advisable that there should be an affirmative proposition on the subj ect. Mr. ATKINS. Alr. President: I would like to ask the gentleman from Sangamon [Mr. Hay] a question. Does the gentleman hold that if this Convention adopted the article with reference to the judiciary, it would have the (,ffect to abrogate the judiciary article of the exiStiDg Constitution? Mr. HAY. Mr. President: I think this is virtually saying to the people of the State of Illinois. "This is our only Constitution; you have no other Constitution than the one we put before you, if it is adopted." But, Mr. President, I desire to call the attention of the Convention to this matter with another view. The chaif man of the Finance Committee [Mr. Ross] informed us on yesterday, that it accorded with the -views of the Auditor and with those financial calculations which had hitherto been made as to the extinction of the State debt, to cause a cessation of that tax with the tax now in process of collection. In a conference with the Auditor this morning, he informed me that there was a mistake as to that impression. The impression that he designed to make upon the Committee on Finance was, that the two-mill tax for the present year-1870should be collected-should be retained. I have before me the report made at the last session of the Legislature, on which his calculation is based, showing that to be the fact. That calculation is here made, showing that the resources of the State, if this tax be assessed for the present year, will extinguish our State debt within a limited period, which is here fixed; and he recoinmeiads the extinction of the tax after the present year, or at least makes a calculation to show that it is not necessary to collect it, after its assessment for the year 1870. I hope some gentleman will draw an amendment while 1832- COSIUI-LOXYNI~WDED NA.YS. Abbott, Goodhue, Perley, Allen of Alex., Haines of CookPillsbury, Anthony, Haines of Lake,Tincher, Bayne, Hayes, Truesdale, Benjamin, Medill, Wait, Buxton, Merriam, Wells, Eldredge, Moore, Wilson-23. Fuller, Parker, ABSENT, OR NOT VOTING. Allen of Crwfd,English, Rice, Bowman, Gamble, Scholfield, Brown, Hanna, Sedgwick, Cameron, Harwood, Springer, Church, McDowell, Underwood, Cody, Peirce, Wheaton, Coolbaugh, Poaze. Mr. President-22. Craig, So the motion of Mr. Whiting, to lay on the table the additional section offered by Mr. Anthony, was agreed to. Mr. MEDILL. Mr. President: I now move that this article be referred to the Committee on Revision and Adjustment. Mr. BROM.WELL. Mr. President: I wish to make a suggestion, in which, perhaps theire might be nothing but can well enough be considered. This schedule makes no provision as to what shall be done with any part of the old Constitution not covered by the provisions of the new, in'case the new is all adopted. I suppose the Convention intends this Constitution, if adopted, to stand in lieu of all the provisions of the old Constitution. But there may be provisions in the old which are not embraced in this at all; and confusion may be the result. It seems to me this matter should be remedied. Mr. MEDILL. We found nothing of that kind in the schedules of 1848 or 1862. This is as comprehensive as either of those schedules. Mr. BROMIWELL. There are four sections here which are to be submitted separately, and at the end of each section M are some lines stating what shall be the consequence of a vote. All those provis ions might be embraced in one, and I move that the Committee on Revision and Adjustment do so provide. Mr. MEDILL. I take it for granted they will do that anyhow. Mr. BROMWELL. With that under-. standing I will withdraw. The PRESIDENT. Unless it is a substantial change, it will be the duty of the Committee on Revision and Adjustment to make it without any instruction. If it is a substantial change, some action should be taken by the Convention. The motion of Mr. Medil to refer the article on schedule to the Committee on Revision and Adjustment, was agreed to. CANAL AND CANAL LANDS. hMr. WHITING. Mr. President: I now move that the article on canals, re: ported by the Canal Committee, be taken up, and in doing so, it is proper I should say a few words in connection with that matter. I do not suppose that at this stage, the Convention is disposed to enter into any discussion, nor do I suppose it necessary, after the long discussion which has been had. I wish simply to call attention to the reason why this matter should receive some favorable action at this time. It will be remembered that we a djourned for a month, and that that recess was ostensibly placed upon the ground that we wanted to hear from the people-to know how they liked our work already done. On our return, in accordance with what was considered to be the desire of the The PRESIDENT. The question is upon section thirty- one, as amended. The Secretary read section thirty-one, as amended, as follows: SEC. 31. When this Constitution shall be adopted, and take effect as the su preme law of thie State of Illinois, the two-mill tax provided to be annually assessed and collected upon each one dollar's worth of taxable property in addition to all other taxes, as set forth in article fifteen of the now existing Constitution, shall cease to be assessed after the year 1870. Section thirty-one, as amended, was agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the adoption of section thirty-two. The Secretary read section thirty-two, as follows: S.Ec. 32. The provisions of this Constitution required to be executed prior to the adoption or rejection thereof, shall take effect and be in force immediately. Done in Convention at the capitol, in the city of Springfield, on the — day of May, in the year of our Lord one thousand eight hundred and seventy, and of the independence of the United States of America the ninety-fourth. In witness whereof we,/have hereunto subscribed our names. Section thirty-two was agreed to. Mr. ANTHONY. I propose the following additional section: No public park or grounds which have been dedicated to public use, to be kept open and unoccupied, shall ever be sold or leased. I design to put that at the end of the article upon commons. The article upon commons relates, of course, to a technical "commons," as known at common law. Mr. ROSS. Mr. President: I am under the impression that the article in relation to commons has been stricken out. Mr. ANTHONY. Mr. President: I will then move it as an additional section, and upon that I move the previous question. The Secretary read the additional section offered by Mr. Anthony, as follows: people, some very radical changes were made in s ome parts of our previo us work. But it is plain to u s all that there was no part of our work that gave such decided dissatisfaction as what was done with reference to canal and river improvements. The people have, in various ways, spoken emphatically and strongly upon that question. The board of trade of Chicago,embracing one or two thousand of the most active business men, and representing great interests-not only of Ilinois, but of the northwest-have spoken upon the matter, and have expressed to us, in decided terms, their desire for a change. Also the board of trade of Peoria, one of the second class cities -)f the State, has spoken to about the same effect. The farmers in the northern part of the State held a convention at Bloomington, and also expressed themselves upon this transportion question. It was not exclusively a canal and river convention, but this question was before them, and they expressed themselves in a mode worthy of our careful attention. These several bodies of men, repres~enting great interests, and composed of gen. tlemen as patriotic and wise as any-in the State, should command thefavorable consideration of this body. The change desired is one rather of form than of substance; yet it is a change necessary to render the article of practical advantage. I am precluded by time from entering upon a discussion of the merits of the ques tion. I propose that this article shall be sub stituted for the article heretofore adopt. ed and that the Committee upon Revision and Adjustment shall prepare and submit it as a separate article. I now move that it be taken from the table, and upon that I move the previous question. Mr. ANDERSON. Mr. President: I move that this subject be laid upon the table till the fourth of July next. The PRESIDENT. The gentleman from Bureau [Mr. Whiting] calls for the previous question upon his motion to take the article upon canals from the table. If the Convention declines to do that, it will remain upon the table. The motion for the pevious question was agreed to, andthe main question ordered. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon taking from the table the article on canal and canal lands. Mr. WHITING. Mr. President: I call for the yeas and nays. The yeas and nays were ordered. The Secretary proceeded to call the roll. Mgr. CUMIMINGS (when his, name was called) said: I have paired off, Mr. President, with the gentleman from Clark [5{r. Scholfield.] Mr. FOX (when his namse was called) said: Mr. President: I have paired off with the gentleman from Gallatin [Mr. Bowma~n.] The result was then announced —y eass, 3d, nays, 32 —as follows: WEDNESDAY, CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION '183 2 No public park or grounds which have been dedicated to'public use, to be kept op'n and unoccupied, shall ever be sold or C ,eased. The question being upon the motion for the previous question, a division was ordered. The Convention divided, when, there being thirty-two in the affirmative and twenty-four in the negative,the motion for the previous question was agreed to and the i-nain question ordered. iY.r. SKINNER. Wlr. President: I desire to say a few words upon the secret force and effect of the proposition. The PRESIDENT. The gentleman is not in order. The previous question has been ordered. -Ur. WHITING. Mr. President: I move to lay the proposition on the table. The yeas and nay,3 were ordered, and being taken, resulted-yeas 38, nays 23as follows:' Y]MA.S. Goodell, Hankins, Hart, Ray, Hildrup.'King, -' McCoy, Neece, Parki3, Robinson, Ross, Sharp, Sherrill, YEAS. Gamble, Sedgwick, Goodhue, Sherrill, HainesofCook,Snyder, Haines of Lake'Truesdale, Hart, Tubbs, Hayes, Turner, Medill, Wagne'r, Merriam, Wait, Parks, Wells, Perley, Wheaton, Pillsbury, #,Whiting, R*ss, Wright-ov. Anderson, Archer, Atkins, Bromwell, Browning, Bryan, Cary, Cross, Cummings, Dement, Ellis, Forman, Fox, Snyder, Ski-n-ne'r, Sutherland, Tubbs, Turner, Vandeventer, Wagner Wall, Waslib, rn, ,P 7h-ti.! W nd, 1,, n' .Ight -38. Anthony, Bayne, Benjamin, Bromwell, Buxton, Cameron, Cody, Craig, Cross, Dement, Eldredge, Fuller, MAY 11, 1870. DEBATES AD PROCEEDJGS. 1833 While occupying the floor I made a motion for the pre~,ious question. Was it in order for any member, while I was occupying the,floor, to make a motion? The PRESIDENT. Certainly not. Mr. WHITING. Then I call for the previous question, for I was on the floor when the gentleman attempted to move to lay on the table. The PRESIDENT. But the gentleman could not retain the floor while the Chair was putting the question. If it were otherwise, any gentleman could insist upon the Chair putting the question upon his particular proposition, though every other member of the Convention desired it put upon another question. The Secretary proceeded to call the roll. The result was then announced-yeas 35, nays 34-as follows: NAYS. Abbott, Goodell, Allen of Alex, Hankins, Anderson, Hay, Archer, Hildrup, Atkins, King, Br-owning, MeCoy, Bryan, McDowell, Cary, Moore, Church, Neeceo Ellis, Parker, Forman, Rice, SEC. 13. If it shall appear that a majority of all the v otes polled are for the Constitution it shall be the supreme law of the State of Illinois on and after Monday, the 8th day of August A. D. 1870; but if it shall a ppear t hat a majo rity of th e votes wer e not cast fo r s aid Constitution, it shall be null and void. If it shall further appea r that a m ajority of th e votes polled shall have been given bor either of the a rticles and section s se parat ely submit - ted, then such artic les and sections receiving said majority of vote s, shal l form and constitute a part of the Const itution, and shall be substituted for those article s and sections of the Constitution with which they conflict, e xcept the section re la ting to minority repre sentation, which shall not be declared adopted unl ess this Constitution shall be adopted; and those articles an d se ctions whic h shall not have recei ved a majority of the vot es cast, shall be null and void. Mr. BROM WELL. Mir. President: There is one case that might possibly arise to which I wish to call the attention of the gentleman from Stephenson [Mr. Turner]. This Constitution may be adopted, but some of these separate articles may be adopted, and some of them may be defeated. Now, in case it shall be adopted, and, at the same time, some of the separate articles are defeated, then, if the new Constitution supersedes the old, in all its parts, they fall to the ground, and there will be left a part of the old Constitution abrogated, with nothing to take its place. To cover a case of that sort, it is necessary that what is substantially in this amendment be s-mewhere incorporated. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the motion of the gentleman from Fulton [Mr. Ross] that the proposition of the gentleman from Coles [Mr. Bromwell] be referred to the committee on Revision and Adjustment. The motion of Mr. Ross was agreed to. ABSENT, OR NOT VOTING. Allen, of Cr'fd,English, Poange, Bowman, Fo x, Scholfield, Brown, Hanna, Skinner, Coolbaugh, Harwood, Underwood, Cummings, Peirce, Mr. President-15. So the motion of Mr. Whiting to take from the table the article upon canal aand canal lands was agreed to. [The following is the report of the Committee on Caual and Canal Lands:] ARTICLE-. SECTION 1. The Illinois and Michigan canal shall never be sold, nor shall it be leased, until the specific proposition for the lease thereof shall first have been submitted to a vote of the people of the State, at a general election, and have been approved by a major ity of all the votes polled at such election. The General Assembly shall never loan the credit of the State, or make appropriations from the treasury thereof. in aid of railroads or canals: trovided the General Assembly may loan, on the faith of the State, for the purpose of enlarging or extending the canal, a sum of money the interest of which shall not exceed the net revenues of the canal and improved rivers. [The following is the article, as report ed by the Committee on Revision and Adjustment:] ARTICLE The Illinois and Michigan canal shall never be sold or leased until the specific proposi tion for the sale or lease thereof shall first have been submitted to a vote of the people of the State, at a general election, and have been approved by a majority of all the votes polled at such election. The General Assembly shall never loan the credit of the State or make appropriations from the treasury thereof, in aid of railroads or canals:Provided, that any surplus earnings of any canal may be appropriated for its en largement or extension. Air. WHITING. Mr. President: I move that the Committee on Revsion and Adjustment be instructed to substitute this article for the article previously passed, and that the Committee on Schedule prepare to submit this sepa rately to the people, and on this I call for the previous question. Mr. ALLEN, of Alexander. Mr. Pres ident: I move to lay the motion of the gentleman from Bureau [Mr. Whiting] on the table; and I call for the yeas and nays. Mlr. TINCHER. Mr. President: I move that the Convention do now adjourn. ["No," "no."] 'The motion was not agreed to. The PRESIDENTr. The question is upon the motion of the gentleman from Alexander [Mr. Allen] to lay on the table the motion of the gentleman from Bureau [MN~r. Whiting]. The yeas and nays were ordered. MHr. ELDREDGEG. Mgr. President: I would like to request the gentleman from Bureau [MIr. Whiting] to modify his motion. The PRESIDENT. It is not in order to moditr the motion, as it has been moved to) lay it upon the table. Mr. WHITING. Mgr. President. I would speak to a question of orde~ 459 NAYS. Goodhue, Sedgwick, Haines of C'ok, Sherrill, Haines of L'ke,Truesdale, Hart, Tubbs, Hayes Turner, Medill, Wagner, Merriam, Wait, Parks, Wells, Perley, Wheaton, Pillsbury, Whiting, Ross, Wright-34. ABSENT, OR NOT VOTING. Allen of Cr'fd.,English, Poage, Bowman, Fox, Scholfield, Brown, Hanna, Snyder, Coolbaugh, Harwood, Mr. President-14. Cummings, Peirce, So the motion of Mr. Allen of Alexan der, to lay upon the table the motion of Mr. Whiting, to instruct the Committee on Revision aad Aidj ustment to substitute the article offered by him for the article previously passed, was agreed to. THE SCHEDULE, AGAIN. Mr. BROMWELL. Mr. President: I wish to offer for adoption as a part of the schedule, the following provision: In case this Constitution and the articles and sections submitted separately be adopted, the existing Constitution shall cease in all its provisions. And in case this Constitution be adopted, and any one or more of the articles or sections submitted separately be defeated, the provisions o(f the existing Constitution, if any, on the same subject, shall remnain in force; and in case this Constitution be rejected, then such articles and sections as are separately adopted shall be a part of the existing Constitution. Mr. ARCHER. Mr. President: I cannot see the necessity of such a provision, and I move to lay it upon the table. Mr. BROMWELL. Mr. President: I would ask the gentleman to withdraw a moment, to allow me to explain. The motion of Mr. Archer was not agreed to. Mr. WENDLING. Mr. President: r move that the consideration of the prop-. osition be postponed until to-morrow morning, at ten o'clock Mr. ROSS. Mr. President: I move MAY 11) 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1833 tha,f- it be referred to the Committee on Revision and Adjtistment. Mr. WENDLING. I withdraw my motion, Nlr. President. Mr. TURNER. If the gentleman will give attention a SiDgle moment to section thirteen, I think it will obviate the objections that have been raised. It provides Robinson, Sharp, Springer, Butherland, Tinclier, Vandeventer, Wall, Washburn, Wendln Wilson S2. YEAS. Allen, of Alex.Goodell, Abbott, Hankin's, Andere,on, ]Elay, Archer, Hildrup, Atkins, Kine. Bromwell, m c 6 -v, Browning, McDo-well, Bryan, Moore, Cary, Neece, Church, Parker, Ellis, Rice, .Forman, Robinson, Sharp, Skinner Spr' ger, "a S.therland, Tincher, Underwood, Vaudeventer, Wall, Wasliburn, Wendling, Wilson-35. Anthony, Bayne, Benjamin, Buxton, Cameron, Cody, Craig, Cross, Dem, ent, Eldredge, Fuller, Gamble, CANAL AND CTNAL LANDS. Mr. HAY. Mr. President: The arti. cle, as I understand it, is now ready to be committed to the Committee on Revision and Adjustment. I desire to accompany it with an instruction that "the Commit. tee on Revision and Adjustment be instructed to place, the article on canals with the list of articles to be voted upon separately." It is apparent there is some necessity for this. If this canal article is objectionable to a large portion of the people along the line of that canal, ther — will be great propriety in submitting the article separateIy. Mr. HAYES. Mr. President: In read. ing the article adopted by the Convention, I find it prescribes that the Illinois and Michigan canal shall not be sold or leased, until a specific proposition has been voted upon by the people. I doubt very much whether that would not be construed by our creditors as an'attempt to repudiate our contract. I understand that the canal is held intrust,, by trustees. for the payment of the canal debt, and that they have a right to sell, in case of default. The State cannot, by a con'. stitutioiaal provision, cut off the right of sale, and ought, not to claim such #a power. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION I think the section has been drawn States or of this State, or in the military or rather too loosely. -naval service of the United States. I am afraid it will injure the Constitu- SEc. 5. No} soldier, seaman or marine in the am frad i Wil ijur th Coisttu-army or navy of the United States, shall be tion, if submitted with it, and I hope the deemed a resident of this State in consequence m o t i o n of the gentleman from Sangamon of being stationed therein. [ Mr. Hay], tc, instruct the committee to SEC. 6. No person shall be elected or app r e p a r e a provision for submitting it, as pointed to any office in this State, civil or m-hil C,I itary, who is not a citizen of the United States, a separate article, will prevail. I am and who shall not have resided in this State afraid it was not well considered. one year next preceding the election or ap Mr. ANDERSON. I would like to hear pointment. the article on canals, which has been SEc. 7. The General Assembly shall pass adopted, read. laws excluding from the right of suffrage per The Secretary read the article on canal sons convicted of infamus crimes. and caul ans,as olow:THE PRESIDENT. The article will and canallands, a followsbe enrolled as a part of the Constitution. REPORT OF COMMITTEE OiN CANAL AND Mr. CODY. The next in order is arti CANAL LANIDS. CANTICL LAN. cle eight. It is as follows: ARTICLE —.tae;adteesalbnoslofsi The Illinois and Michigan Canal shall never ART b o u e o be sold or leased until the specific proposition EDUCATION. for the sale or lease thereof shall first have SECTION 1. The General Assembly shall been submitted to a vote of the people of the provide for athorough and efficient system of State, at a general election, and have been free schools, whereby all children of this State approved by a majority of all the votes polled may receive a good common school educa at sqch election. tion. The General Assembly shall never loan the SEC. 2. All lands, moneys or other proper credit of the State or make appropriations ty, donated, granted or received for school, from the treasury thereof, in aid of railroads college, seminary or university purpos(es, and or canals: Provided, that any surplus earnings the proceeds thereof, shall be faithfully ap. of any canal may be appropriated for its en- plied to the objects for which such gifts or, largement or extension. grants were made. The resolution of instructions offes-ed SEC. 3. Neither the General Assembly, nor by Mr. Hay was agreed to. any county, city, town or township, school district or other public corporation, shall ever REVISION AND ADJUSTMENT. m iake any appropriation or pay froijm any pub-. Mr. CODY. Mr. President: The lic fund whatever, anything in aid of any church or sectarian purpose, or to help sup Committee on Revision and Adjustment, port or siustain any school, academv, semirha to whom was referred the various articles ry, college, university or other literary or sci of the Constitution relating to suffrage, ed- entific institution, controlled by any church ucation, revenue, counties, corporations, or sectarian denomination whatever; nort ,and amenedments, and also the pro- shall any grant or donation of land, money militia, and amendments, and also the pro- or other personal property ever be made by posed article on canals and the - rticle on the State or any such public corporation to warehouses, as amended, concurred in or any church, or for any sectarian purpose. adopted by the Convention, have had the SEc. 4. No teacher, State, county, town. same under consideration, have revis,,ed ship or district school officer shall be inter sand jued ther cosidetions thavereov;adind- ested in the sale, proceeds or profits of any and adjusted the sections thereof, and in, book, apparatus or furniture, used or to be structed me to report the same back and used in any school in this State, with which to move that they be enrolled respectively such officer or teacher may be connected, un as articles seven, eight, nine, ten, eleven, der such penalties as may be provided by the, twelve, thirteen, four-teen, and fifteen of General Assembly. twele, hireen forten, nd iften f SEC. 5.'There may be a county superin the proposed Constitution. tendent of schools in each county, whose Mr. President: I desire to call the at- qualifications, powers, dtties, compensation tetition of the members to one fact in re- and time and manner of election, and term of gard to which we shall have to ask their office, shall be prescribed by law. 'patiei:-ce. Through an error at the print- The PRESIDENT. The article will be ing office, some of these reports have enrolled. been printed in full before we have had Mr. CODY. Article nine, on revenue, an opportunity to revise the proof, and follows next. CE see the consequence is, that what I will read ARTICLE IX.shall will not correspond precisely with the SECTION 1. The General Assembly shall repots embes hve. he hangs, ow-provide such revenue as may be needful, bythpepeothcony repots embes hve. he hangs, ow-levying a tax, by valuation, so that every per- Sc..Th GeeaAseby ayvs ever, will be so apparent that there will s n and corporation shall pay a tax in pro- tecroaeatoiiso iis on n be no difficuty about it.portion to the value of his or her property —vlae ihpwrt aeIclipoe I wil prceedto ead ectin on ofsuch value to be ascertained by s(,me person mnsb pca seseto yseiltx articl poe e tora sevein one "sffrg. or persons to be elected or appointed in suchatoofCniuuprpryorohrie article sven on "sffrage."manner as the General Assembly shall direct,Foalotecoprtpupssalmuii ARTICLE VII. and not otiierwise; but the General Assembly plcroain a evse ihatoi Sxc~ox 1 Evey peson avin resdedshall have power to tax peddlers, aucilioneers, t oass n olc ae;btsc ae in this State one year, in the county ninety boes akr,mrhns omsinsalb nfr nrsett esn n days, and in the election district thirty days merhats somn, juggler, inn-keepers, next preceding any election therein, who was grocery-keepers, tioll d property, wthin thbjrisdicingftesbod an elector in this State on the first day of ferries, insurance, telegraph and express-in- Sc10.TeGnrlAsmlshlno April, in the year ot our Lord one thousand terests or husinessa, venders of patents and ips ae pnmncplcroain,o eight hundred and forty-eight, o0 obtained a persons or corporations owning or usingthinaiatorpoetthro;frcpo certificate of naturalization before any court franchises and privileges, in such manner as itraeproe,btsalrqietaalth of record in this State prior to the tirst day shall from time to time direct by general law,taalprprywti eliisomuii of January, i'i the year of our Lord one u,itbfrm as to the class upon which it oper- a oprtossal'etxdfrtepy thousand eight hundred and seventy, or who ates. shall be a male citizen of the United States ieto et otatdudratoiyo above the age of twenty one years, shall be entitled to vote at such election. move to strike out the wr"o" bewe"esn n rpry ihntejrsito SEc. 2. All votes shall he by ballot. "his" and "her" in the third line of sec-poetshlnobelal'tbetkno SEC. 3. Electors shall, in all cases except tion first, and insert "or its" after "her."sodfrtepyetothcoprtdbt treason, felony orhbreach of the peace,be priv- Mr'OD.-Taamnm twilb ofamncploroain ileged from arrest during their attendance at elections, and in going to and returning accepted if there is no objecti.on. SC I opro h si eal,a from the same. And no elector shall be oh- SEC. 2. The specification of the ohicsbelogn oamncplcoprtio,shl liged to do military duty on the days of elec ae;d subjects of taxation shal'! not depriveheegbetoayofcinounesuhcr tion, except in time of war- or public danger. the General Assembly of the power to require prto.Tefe,slr rcmesto SEC. 4. No elector shall be deemed to have Iother subjects or objects to be taxed, in suchofnmuiiaofcewoiseetdoap lost his residence in this State by reason ofI manner as may he consistent with the princi-ponefoadeiietrofofc,salh his absence on the businss of the United [plea of taxation fixed in this Constitution. icesdo iiihdbigsc em SEC. 3. The property of the State, counties and other municipal corporations, both real and personal, and such other property as may be used exclusively for agricultural and horticultural societies, for schools, religious, cemetery and charitable purposes, may be exempted from taxation; but such exe mption shall be only by g eneral law. In the assessment of real estate inc-umbered by publ ic eaCement, any depreciation occasioned by such easement, may be deducted in the valuatio n of such property. SEC. 4. The General Assembly shall pro vide, in all cases where it may be necessary to sell real estate for the non-payment of taxes or special assessments for State, c, unty, mu nicipal or other purposes, that a return of such unpaid taxes or assessments shall be made to some general officer of the county having authority to receive State and county taxes; and there shall be no sale of said property for any of said taxes or assessments but by said officer, upon the order or judg ment of some court of record. SEC. 5. The right of redemption from all sales of real estate for the non-payment of taxes or special assessments of any character whatever shall exist in favor of owners and persons interested in such real estate, for a period of not less than two years from such sales thereof. And the General Assembly shall provide by law for reasonable notice to be given to the owners or parties interested, by publication or otherwise, of the fact of the sale of the property for such taxes or as sessments and when the time of redemption shall expire: Provided, that occupants shall in all ca,-es be served with personal notice before the time of redemption expires. SEC. 6. The General Assembly shall have no power to release or discharge any county, city, township, town or district whatever, or the inhabitants thereof, or the property therein, from their proportionate share of taxes to be levied for State purposes, nor shall commutation for such taxes be author ized in any form whatsoever. Mr. PERLEY. Mr. President: I move to amend by inserting " or its," before property in section six, in the third line. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the amendment offered by the gen tleman from Marshall [Mr. Perley]. A division was ordered. The Convention divided, when the armendment offered by Mr. Perley was agreed to. Mr. CODY. The article continues: SEc. 7. All taxes levied for State purposes shall be paid into the State treasury. Sea. 8. County authorities shall never as sess taxes, the aggregate of which shall ex ceed seventy-five cents per one hundred dol lar-s valuation, except for the payment of in debtedness existing at the adoption of this Constitution, unless authorized by a vote of the people of the county. S~e. 9. The General Assembly may vest the corporate authorities of cities, towns and villages with power to make lccal improve mBents by special assessment or by special tax ationl of contiguous property, or otherwise. For all other corporate purposes, all munici pal corporations may be vested with authori ty to assess and collect taxes;* but such taxes shall be uniform in respect to persons and property, within the jurisdiction of the body imnposing the same. SzE. 10. The General Assembly shall not impose taxes upon municipal corporations. or the inhabitants or property thereof, fror CIpo rate purposes, but shall require that all the taxable property within the limits of munlici pal co~rpcoraticons shall be taxed for the pay merit of debts contracted under authority of law —-such taxes to be luniform, in respect to persons and property, within the jurisdiction of the body imposing the same. Prinnate property shall not be liable to be taken or sold for the payment of the corporate debts of a municipal corporation. S~.c. 11. No person who is in default, as collector or custodian of money or property belonging to a municipal corporation, shall be eligible to any office in or under such cor porationl. The fees, salary or compensation of no municipal officer who is elected or ap pointed for a definite term of office, shall be increased or diminished daring such term. 1834 WEDNESDAY) MAY ii, 1570 DEBATES A~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~D PROCEEDINGS. 1835~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ lation to counties not having township organization, shall immediately take effect and be in force in such county. No two townships shall have the same name, and the day oi holding the annual township meeting shall be uniform throughout the State. Mr. CAMERON. Mr. President: I move that the rules be suspended for the purpose of reconsidering the vote by which section one was adopted. If the rules be suspended, I will move to strike out, beginning in the third line, the wo,rds in parenthesis: "but cities having a population of two hundred thousand or more, may be organized into a separate county." This clause was hurriedly and without thought inserted in this section. It was placed there, not on the motion of any delegate from Cook county, but by the gentleman from Stephenson LMr. Turner]. I have had the honor myself, during our session this winter, to present probably not less than twenty petitions against such a clause being adopted in this Constitution. The people of Cook county have not asked this at our hands. When the question was laid before the Cook county delegation, it, by unanimous vote, decided that it would not seek the inser tion of any such clause, and I believe that the people of Cook county, in the main, are opposed to it. I simply desire to state the reasons why I think this action of the Convention should be reconsidered. We have twenty-eight towns in Cook county. From their geographical situation they cainot form a county by themselves. Chicago is the center and should remain the county seat. I ask if these twenty-eight towns should be made an exception of, and have no vote or voice on their ownr interests and county connections, but at any time be left out like a waif in the cold? Since the organization of Cook ,county, those towns have contributed liberally to the erection of the county buildrings. All their records are at Chicago. Chicago is the county seat and this provision provides that without the vote of the towns, the city may take possession of the couLty property, cut loose from these towns, and leave them to shift for themselves. Now, I submit that this is an act of manifest injustice. We claim the same rights as are granted to other towns in the State. I think if gentlemen had understood the provision, they would not have adopted it. I believe it to be an act of gross wrong. a fraud upon the peo pie, and I believe that the great mass of the people of Cook county do not desire any such Constitutional provision. Mr. CARY, Mr. President: I agree with the gentleman from Cook [Mr. Cameron], and I hope that will be stricken out. I will state how it happened to be put in there. The gentleman from Winnebago [Mr. Cross] had made a motion for the purpose of allowing counties smaller than four hundred square miles to be fornied. I wished to aid my friend from Winnebago a little, and illustrated the m proposition by a reference to Cook county. - stated at the time that I took that county only as an illustration, but immediately the gentleman from Stephenson [Mr. T'urner]. thinking, I suppose, that we were favoring forming a new county out of Cook, moved to insert the words o sought to be stricken out. It was not my c intention to advocate the formation of such a county. I hope the words will be stricken out. Mr. CODY. Mr. President: I presume that there will be no objection to strikitng this out, and I therefore move tho previous question. Mr. TURNER. Mr. President: I hope the gentleman will withdraw it a men mert. Mr. CODY. I will if you will renew it. M. r. TURNER. I will merely state, Mr. President, as I happened to be the member who moved the amendment, it would, I think, after the remarks of the gentleman from Cook [Mr. Cameron], be unfair to strike out this matter without giving me a single moment to explain. I was not aware that the gentleman from JoDaviess [Mr Cary] had said anything about the small counties, but having in my mind the fact that almost all large cities are organized into separate counties, I made the motion, and it was adopted. Some of the Cook county delegation then thought they would lather not have it there, and I attempted to strike it out. While I was doing that one of the gentlemen from Cook [Mr. Coolbaugh] turned to a resolution which had been adopted by the bo-rd of supervisors of the county of Cook, asking for this very thing, and suggested that it had better stay where it was. The gentleman from Cook [Mr. Cameron] has all the time treated this matter as he has in his remarks which he has just made, as if the clause had been introduced in hostility to Cook county; but such was not the fact. It was done because I thought that such a provision might be necessary. At the request of Cook county del(-gates, I tried to strike it out, until I was referred to the resolution of the board of sunervisors. I did not offer it out of any Peeling of hostility toward Cook county. Mr. CAMERON. Mr. President: Will the gentleman permit me to explain? I did not charge that his act;on was taken out of hostility to Cook county, but I do charge that it is a great wrong to disfranchise those towns, to single them out in this way, and make an exception of them. It is sheer tyranny to provide that twenty-eight of as good, loyal towns as can be found in the State of Illinois, shall be deprived of a right which every other town in the State possesses, viz: that of deciding on the question of their county relationss. M~r. MED!LL. Mr. President: I remember very distinctly that mny friend from Stephenson [Mr. Turner] did move that this sentence in parenthesis be stricken out, but on some parliamentary ruling g(I do not remember exactly what) the motion was not disposed of and it was passed over, and we have not since been able to reach it. The effect of it would be that if we should erect Chicago into a separate county~ we would be reduced simply to the limaits of the corporate limits of the city, and could not include a solitary inch of adjoining territory. Not a rural district, or township, or suburb could be included in our new coun~ty, but for all time thereafter, the new county would be limited to the then city limits. Our board of supervisors got into a very fierce quarrel with each other last fall, and, in the heat of the moment, passed a resolution asking ARTICLE X. COUNTIES. SECTION 1. None w county shall be formed or establise thed by the General Assembly,which will reduce the county or counties. or either of them, from which it shall be taken, to less contents than four hundred square miles (but cities having a population of two hundred thousand or more may be organized into a separate county); nor shall any county be formed of less contents; nor shall any line thereof pass within less than ten miles of any county Seat of the county or counties proposed to be divided. SEC. 2. No county shall be divided, or have any part stricken therefrom, without submitting the question to a vote of the people of the county, nor unless a majority of all the legal voters of the county voting on the question, shall vote for the same. SEC. 3. There shall be no territory stricken from any county unless a majority of the voters living in such territory shall petition for such division; and no territory shall be added to any county without the consent of the majority of the voters of the county to which it is proposed to be added. But the portion so stricken off and added to another county, or formed in whole or in part into a new county, shall be holden for, and obliged to pay its proportion of the indebtedness3 of the county from which it has been taken. COUNTY SEATS. SEC. 4. No county seat shall be removed until the point to which it is proposed to be removed shall be fixed in pursuance of law, and a majority of the voters of the county, to be ascertained in such manner as shall be provided by general law, shall have voted in favor of its removal to such - point; and no person shall vote on such question who has not resided in the county six months, and in the election precinct ninety days next preceding such election. The question of the removal of a county seat shall not be oftener submitted than once in ten years, to a vote of the people. COUNTY GOVERNMENT. SEc. 5. The General Assembly shall provide by general law, for township organization, under which any county may organize, whenever a majority of the legal voters of such county, voting at any general election, shall so determine; and whenever any county shall adopt township organization, so much ot this Constitution as provides for the management of the fiscal concerns of the said county, by the county court, may be dispensed with, and the affairs of said county may be transacted in such manner as the General Assembly may provide. And in any county that shall have adopted a township organization, the question of continuing the same may be submitted to a vote of the electors of such county, at a general election, in the manner that now is or maylbe provided by law; and if a majority of all the votes cast upon that question shall be againist township organization, then auch organization shall cease in said county, and all laws in force in re MAY 11, 1870, DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1835 1836 CO~~STITUTJO~AL CO~~VENTJO~ -wEDN1~SDAY Monday of December after the election; and they shall hold their respective offices for the t erm of four years, except the treasurer, sheriff and coroner, who shall hold their office for two years and until their successors shall be elected and qualified. Mr. PERLEY. Mr. President: I wish to ask the chairman if he will accept the substitute of "his" for "their," before "office" in section eight. Mr. CODY. Yes, sir. The next section is section nine, which is as follows: SEc. 9. The clerks of all the courts of reccord, the treasurer, sheriff, coroner and recorder of deeds of Cook county, shall receive as their only compensation for their services, salaries to be fixed by law, which shall in no case be as much as the lawful compensation of a judge of the circuit court of said county, and shall be paid, respectively, only out of the fees of the office actually collected. All fees, perquisites and emoluments (above the amount of said salaries) shall be paid into the county treasury. The number of the deputies and assistants of such officers shall be determined by rule of the circuit court, to be entered of record, and their compensation shall be determined by the county board. SEC. 10. The county board, except as pro vided in section nine of this article, shall fix the compensation of all county officers, with the amount of their necessary clerk hire, stationery, fuel and other expenses, and in all cases where fees are provided for, said com- pensation shall be paid only out of, and shall in no instance exceed the fees actually collect ed; they shall not allow either of them more per annum than fifteen hundred dollars, in counties not exceeding twenty thousand inhabitants; two thousand dollars in counties containing twenty thousand and not exceeding thirty thousand inhabitants; twenty-five hundred dollars in countie s containing thirty thousandand not exceeding fifty thousand inhabitants; three thousand dollars in counties containing fifty thousand and not exceeding seventy thousand inhabitants; thirty-five hundred dollars in counties containing seventy thousand and not exceeding one hundred thousand inhabitants; four thousand dollars in counties containing over one hundred thousand and not exceeding two hundred and fifty thousand inhabitants; and not more than one thousand dollars additional compensation for each additional one hundred thousand inhabitants: Provided, that the compensation of no officer shall be increased or diminished during his term of office. All fees or allowances oy them received, in excess of their said compensation. shall be paid into the county treasury. Mr. ALLEN, of Alexander. I move to reconsider the vote by which the section was adopted, and if the Convention will allow me I will state the reason why, in imy opinion, the action of the Conventionl should be reconsidered. It will be seen by members of this Convention that the grossest injustice is done to counties havi g small populations. The maximum sum that can be allowed to the officers of counties having a population of less than 20,000 is $1,500 a year, while in other counties of larger population the compensation allowed those officers is continually increasing. Yet in addition to the increasing emoluments of the various county offices, provision is made for all clerk hire, fuel, stati foery, and everything of that kind. Surely the officers in small counties should cnot be thus discriminated against. For small as may be the population in many counties, it takes all the time of the sheriff, county clerk and county officers I to attend to their duties. In large counties an officer may never serve a writ, make up an order, or perform any service himself, and yet receive a salary three times as large as an officer of the same character in a small county. Mr. TINCHER. Do fees now amount to fifte en hundred dollars in these small counties? Mr. ALLEN, of Alexander. In some of thorm I think they amount to more. Mr. TINCHER. This would not reduce t hem any, I was going to say. Mr. ALLEN, of Alexander. What I complain of is that this is grossly unequal. We give to a sh-eriff of a county having 50,000 population several times as much as we do to a sheriff of a county containing 15,000 people,and yet the officer getting the large salary may not be compelled, himself, to perform any service whatever. Mr. CUMMINGS. I would suggest that it is not in order to discuss the merits of a section on a motion to suspend the rules. The PRESIDENT. The motion to suspend the rules is not debatable. it is only by general indulgence the gentleman was allowed to proceed. Mr. ALLEN, of Alexander. I appeal to the sense of justice of every member of the Convention, and shall not trouble it any longer. The motion of Mr. Allen, that the rules be suspended, was not agreed to. Mr. ROSS. Mr. President: I would like to suggest an amendment, which I think will meet with no objection. Insert after "officers," in the second line, the words "except their own." I would rather the board would not fix their own compensation. Mr. SKINNER. Mr. President: I object, because I am deadly hostile to the whole section. Mr. ALLEN, of Alexander. Mr. President: I would like to inquire whether I may not call for a vote whether the section shall be enrolled as a part of the Constitution at the present time. The PRESIDENT. The gentleman has the right to call for a vote on the enrollment of the section. Mr. ALLEN, of Alexander. Mr. Presi. dent? Then I call for a vote upon the enrollment. Mr. SKINNER. Mr. President: There are two fundamental errors in this section Mr. CUMMIINGS. Mr. President: Is the question now open to discussion? The PRESIDENT. The question of enrollment is precisely the same as the questi,. n as to the engrossment of a bill, and involves the entire merits of the question. MIr. SKINNER. Mr. President: Take a broad vies of this question. All mine isteriai officers under this section are put into the position of negotiating between themnselves and the board of supervisors of the county. The temptation is presented to each one of them to attempt a system of log-rolling, of bargain and corruption with the legislation of the counjty. It has been repeatedly stated upon the floor that in some sections of this State such bodies are infinitely corrupt, and will probably remain so. If such is the case, would it not be most unfortunate to establish such a cause for log-rolling between the county authorities and theministerial officers of the county? is such a system desirable in the State of'lils If we want to make minis. terial offiersr efficient, we must make it their interest to perform their dutiesotherwise we wilt have in(-ficient, careless, dilatory officers, and it will follow that whoever wants to send process to a foreign county must send with it a bribe, and must senn with it five dollars or ten dollars as a second bribe., this Conven tion to provide fo r the erection of Chicago and half a dozen adjoining towns hip s into a new cou nty. But they recon sider ed t hat fo olish a ct, ande since then they are all h eartily ashamed of what they did. The peo ple of Cook do not wa nt to dismember their county, and particularly are they not in favor of this mode of doing it. I hope the amendment will be stricken out. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the motion to suspend the rules. The motion was agreed to The PRESIDENI'. The question is upon the motion to reconsider. The motion was agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the amendment proposed by the gentleman from Cook [Mr. Cameron], to strike out the words- "but cities having a population of two hundred thousand or more, may be organized into a separate county." The amendment was agreed to. Mr. BENJAMIN. Mr. President: I will suggest for the consideration of the Convention, that in the fourth and fifth lines of section five, there is the following clause: The management of the fiscal concerns of said coanty, bv the county court, may be dispensed with. Under the provisions of this Constitution, if adopted, the fiscal concerns of a county, not under township organization, will be managed by a board of county commissioners, and not by the county court, and I would suggest whether there ought not to be inserted in the place of the words "county court," the words "board of county commissioners." Mr. CODY. I was about to suggest the same thinJg. It has been acted upon again and again, and it never occurred to me until I read it at this time. I think, if it is changed to the "county board," it will be correct. Mr. SKINNER. Mr. President: Will the gentleman allow me to suggest that "no two townships that have the saine name" means, of course, in any one county. Mr. HAYES. No. It means "throughout the State." Mr. WHEATON. Do you not mean "board of county commissioners?" Mr. CODY. Certainly, and I will make the correction. The article continues as follows: SsE. 6. At- the first election of county judges under this Constitution, there shall be elected in each of the counties of this State, not under township organization, three officers, who shall be styled "the board of county commissioners," who shall hold sessions for the transaction of county business as shall be provided by law. One of said commissioners shall hold his office for one year, one for two years, and one for three years, to be determnined by lot; and every year thereafter one such officer shall be elected in each of said counties for the term of three years. SEC. 7. The county affairs of Cook ounlty shall be managed by a board of commissioners of fifteen persons, ten of whom shall be elected from the city of Chicago, and Eive from towns. outside of said city, in such manner as may be provided by law. COUNTY O:FfiCERS AND THEIR COMPENSATION. SEC. 8. In each county there shall be elected the following county officers: County judges sheriff, county clerk, clerk of the circuit court (who may be ez-ofl~cio recorder of deeds, except in counties having sixty thousand and more inhabitants, in which counties a recorder of deeds shall be elected at the general election in 1872), treasurer, surveyor and coroner, each of whom shall enter upon the duties of their office, respectively, on the first 1836 CONSTIT-UTIONAL CON'VENTION WEDNESDAY, MAY 11,1870. DEBATJS AXD PROCEEDINGS. 1837 General Assembly after the adoption of this Constitution; and the General Assembly shall, by general law, uniform in its opera tion, provide for and regulate the fees of said officers and their successors, so as to reduce the same to a reasonable compensation for services actually rendered. But the General Assembly may, by general law, classify the counties by population into not more than three classes, and regulate the fees according to class. This article shall not be construed as depriving the General Assembly of the power to reduce the fees of existing officers. Mr. HAY. Mlr. President: It seems to me that the last clause of section twelve should be stricken out. The body of the section already provides that SEC. 12. All laws fixing the fees of State, county and township officers shall terminate with the terms, respectively, of those who may be in office at the meeting of the first General Assembly after the adoption of this Constitution; and the General Assemblyv shall, by general law, uniform in its operation, provide for and regulate the fees of said officers and their successors. Mr. CODY. The Committee on Revision were of the same op'inion, but did not feel authorized to strike out the language. Mr. HAY. An amendment was made during the discussion of this article whereby the last clause of it is rendered inappropriate, and ought, therefore, to be stricken out. The PRESIDBNT. The question can be reached br a suspension of the rules. Mr. CODY. Mr. President: May it not be done by general consent? The PRESIDENT. It may be done by general consent. ["1Object," "object."] Mr. CODY. The article continues: SEC. 13. Every person who' is elected or appointed to any office in this Slate, who shall be paid in whole or in part by fees, shall be required by law to make a semi-annual report under oath, to some officer to be designated by law, of all his fees and emoluments. The PRESIDENT. The article will he enrolled. Mr. CODY. The next article is corporations. The gentleman from Sangamon [Mr. Hay] has frequently to send process to Chicago. Under such a system, would a sheriff send his deputy in a hurry to execute process? Would there be any certainty of the efficient performance of duty? He certainly can have no interest in the execution of his duty. I do not wish to discuss the question largely, but it seems to me to be an iniquity from beginning to end. The true way is to pay according to the performance of service, and thereby secure prompt action. Mr. HAINES, of Lake. Mr. President: I would inquire if the gentleman wishes to apply the same iule to judges? Mr. SKINNER. Mir. President: The gentleman well knows there is a difference immeasurable between judicial and ministerial officers The eye of the public is on the judicial officer-he acts in the broad daylight before the bar and the people. The analogy does not apply at all. The ministerial officer sits in his office with his corps of deputies. He acts out of sight of the public, and the public scrutiny is not upon him. [Here the hammer fell.] Mr. CUMMINGS. Mr. President: I move the previous question. The motion for the previous question was agreed to, and the main question ordered. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon enrolling the tenth section. Mr. HAY. Mr. President: I call for the yeas and nays. The yeas and nays were ordered, and, being taken, resulted-yeas 34, nays 32 -as follows: BANKS. SEC. 5. No State bank shall hereafter be created, nor shall the State own or be liable foe any stock in any corporation or joint stock company or association for banking purposes now created, or to be hereafter created. No act of the General Assembly authorizing or creating corporations or associations with banking powers, whether of issue, deposit or discount, nor amendments thereto, shall go into effect, or in any manner be in force, unless the same shall be submitted to a vote of the people at a general election next succeeding the passage of the same, and be approved by a majority of all the votes cast at such election for or against such law. SEC. 6. Every stockholder in a banking corporation or institution shall be individually responsible and liable to its creditors, over and above the amount of stock by him or her held, to an amount equal to his or her respective shares so held, for all its liabilities accruing while he or she remains such stockholder. SEC. 7. The suspension of specie payments by banking institutions, on their circulation, created by the laws of this State, shall never be permitted or sancti,,ned. Every banking association, now or which may hereafter be organized under the laws of this State, shall make and publish a full and accurate quarterly statement of its affair (which shall be certified to, under oath, by one or more of its officers), as may be provided by law. SEC. 8. If a general banking law shall be enacted, it shalI provide for the registry and countersigning, by an officer of State, of all bills or paper credit, designed to circulate as money, and require security to the full amount thereof, to be deposited with the State Treasurer in United States or Illinois State stocks, to be rated at ten per cent. below their par value, and in case of a depreciation of said stocks to the amount of ten per cent. below par. the bank or banks owning said stocks shall be required to make up said deficiency by depositing additional stocks. And said law shall also provide for the recording of the names of all stockholders in such corporations, the amount of stock held by each, the time of any transfer thereof, and to whom such transfer is made. The PRESIDENT. Shall the four sections entitled "banks" be enrolled as part of the Constitution? Mr. ROSS. Can we have a separate vote upon the eighth section? The PRESIDENT. It is competent to take a vote on each and eveiy sectiojt. ARTICLE XI. cORPORATIONs. SECTION 1. No corporation shall be created by special laws, or its charter extended, changed or amended, except for charitable, educational, penal or reformatory purposes, which are to be and remain under the patron age and control of the State, but the General Assembly shall provide, by g eneral laws, f or the organization nf all co rp or ations hereafter to be c reated. SEC. 2. All e xisting charters or gr ants of special or exclusive privileges, under which organization s hall not ha ve take n p lace, or which shall not have be en in operation within ten days from the time this Constitution takes effect, shall thereafter have no validity or effect whatever. SEC. 3. The General Assembly shall provide, by law, that in all elections for directors or manager s of in cororporate d companies, every stockholder shall have the right to vote, in person o r by proxy, fo r the number of shares of st ock owned by him, for as many persons as there are directors o r manag ers to be elected, or to cumulate said shares, and gi ve one candidate as many votes as the number of directors, multiplied by the number of his shares of stock, shall equal, or to'distribute them on the same principle among as many candidates as he shall' think fit; and such directors or managers shall not be-elected in any other manner. SEC. 4. No law shall be passed by the General Assembly, granting the right to construct and operate a street railroad within any city, town or incorporated village, without requiring the consent of the local authorities having the control of the street or highway proposed to be occupied by such street railroad. Mr. MOORE. Mr. President: It ceed. SEC. 11. The fees of township officers, and of each class of county officers, shall be uniform in the class of counties to which they respectively belong. The compensation herein provided shall apply only to officers hereafter elected, but all fees established by special laws shall cease at the adoption of this Constitution, and such officers shall receive only such fees as are provided for by general law. SEC. 12. All laws fixing the fees of State, county and township officers shall terminate with the terms, respectively, of those who may be in office at the meeting of the firg 460 MAY 11, 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDI-NGS. 1837 seems to me that a word should be added to that section. It reads, "No law shall be passed by the General Assembly, granting the right," etc. Under those words no law can be passed by the Legislature, until the consent of a city or town is obtained. It should be, "before the track can be laid DOWD." Mr. CODY. Mr. President I will say to the gentleman, that was the diffi. culty with the section, when it was referred to the committee, and they put in the word "requiriDg," which, we think, meets that objection, Mr. UN'DERWOOD. Mr. President Private corporations for street railways can only be passed by a general law, under our legislative article. When such a law is passed,. it must provide for obtaining the consent of corporate authorities where the street railway is to be constructed. Mr. FOX. Mr. President: Would it be in order to take a voto upon the article on banking, without Passing on each section,zeparately? The PRESIDENT. The question of enrolling can be taken on the four sectio-ns in the aggregate. Mr. FOX, Mr. President: Then I call for a vote on the article, as a whole. Mr. CODY. I will first read the article YES. Abbott, Anthony, Archer, Bayne, Bromwell, Bryan, Cameron, c' r-alg, Cummings, Dement, Ellis, Fuller Gamble, Merriam, Goodell, Moore, Haines ofCook,Perley, Haines of Llk, Ross, Hankins, Sedgwick, Hart. Sherrill, Harwood, Sutherland, Hayes, Tubbs, Hlfdr' Wagner, McCoy, Waft, Medill, Whiting-34. NAYS. Allen, of Alx.,Hay, Anderson, Mliowell, Atkins,. Neece, BeDjaTin, Parker, Browning, Parks, Cary, Pillsbul7y, Church Rice, Eldredge, Robinson, Forman, Sharp, Fox, Snyder, Goodhue, Skinner, Springer, Truesdale, Turner, Under'wood, Vandeventer, Wall, Washb,Urn, Wendl. 91 Wheaton, Wilso-n-32. ABSENT, OR NOT VOTING. Allen, - of Crfd.,Cross, Scholfield, Bowman, English, Ti-neher, Brown,'Hanna, Wells, Buxton, King, Wright, Cody, Peirce, Mr. President-17. Coolbaugh, Poage, Section ten was ordered oilrolled. Mr. CODY. Mr. President: I will pro 1838 CONSTITUTIOXAL COY]NTJOiN WEDNESDAY, Mr. WALL. I think the other would be the better plan. Mr. CODY. Mr. President: The next sections are: SEC. 10. The rolling stock, and all other movable property belonging to any railroad company or corporation in this State, shall be considered personal property, and shall be liable to execution and sale in the same manner as the personal property of individuals, and the General Assembly shall pass no law exempting any such property from execution and sale. SEc. 11. No railroad corporation shall consolidate its stock, property or franchises with any other railroad corporation owning a parallel or competing line; and in no case shall any consolidation take place except upon public notice given, of at least sixty days, to all stockholders, in such manner as may be provided by law. A majority of the directors of any railroad corporation now incorporated or hereafter to be incorporated by the laws of this State, shall be citizens and residents of this State. aGRr. SKINNER. Mr. President: I desire to present this question on section eleven, which requires a majority of the directors of railroad corporations, now existin g and hereafter to exist in Illinois, to reside in and be citizens of Illinois. I think that this provision will have a very injurious effect upon the growth and prosperity of the State, and upon the investment of capital in the building of thoroughfares within its borders. The fact now is, and must be for many years, in Illinois, that a vast and overwhelming majority of the stock of railroad corporations is owned, and will be, by non-residents. Why? Because, in the construction of these public thoroughfares in all comparatively new States, the body and volume of the capital must come from abroad. It is the interest of the people to get that capital here. It becomes, at once, subject to the taxing power of the State, and comes at once within the legislative control. We have got capital from abroad to develop our State, and to enrich our people, and when we have done that, we, in our Constitution, say that, notwithstanding this has been accomplished under existing laws, from the time of the adoption of this Constitution, a majority of the directors shall reside in, and be citizens of, the State. From whom do the directors come? From those having the interest in the property, from those whose money is invested, and those who are interested in its protection, so that of necessity, these directors must represent the stock or capital invested. Without that, there would be a hostile or adverse element in the locality —an element that would discourage investment of capital in the State in the future, and do injustice to those who have in the past invested. We are desirous of, and are seeking all the time to procure the investment of foreign capital in railroads in Illinois. Shall we say to those from whom we seek the investment of capital, that if they invest their capital in our State, they shall by our organic law, submit the control and regulation of that capital, the affairs of the company, in which the capital is invested, to citizens of our State alone, and not to those who put the money in and build the roads? It is not only unjust in its very nature, but it is an element discouraging the investment of capital in our State. How can an Illinoisian go east and ask R e the investment of half a million, or a million, of foreign capital, YEAS. Goodell, Pillsbury, Goodhue, Rice, Haines ofCook,Robinson Haines of Lake, Sedgwick, Hankins, Sherrill, Hart, Springer, Harwood, Sutherland, Hay, Tincher, Hildr up, Truesdale, McCoy, Underwood, Medill, Wagner, Merriam, Wait, Moore, Wall, Parker, Wheaton, Parks, Whiting-45. in a ptuarticular road, when he can be to ld at the same moment, "No, sir; in your organic law you say if this capital i s ther e invest ed, t hat unles s we beoe o citizens of your State, we shall have comparatively no voice in its control and protection." [Here the hammer fell.] Mr. CUMMINGS. I move the previous question. The motion for the previous question was agreed to, and the main question or. dered. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon enrolling the section. Mr. RICE. Mr. President: I would inquire if there can be a division upon the question of enrolling? The PRESIDENT. The Chair understands that the question of enrolling a section is susceptible of division. Mr. RICE. Then I move that all after the word "law," in line four, be not en rolled. Mr. ANTHONY. Mr. President: We are now proceeding to amend this sec tion, the question being upon enrolling it, It is the first time that I recollect of a division of the question upon enrolling a section. The section having been adopt ed by the Convention and referred to the Committee tipon Revision, it seems to me the object desired can only be reached by suspending the rule and a reconsideration of the vote of the Convention adopting the section. To divide the question is equivalent to striking out a portion of the section. I think that the rule should be, that the sense of the Convention should be taken on enrolling the entire article. The PRESIDENT. It is true that the question relates to the merits. If the Convention shall decline to enroll a sec tion it is equivalent to striking it out. The Chair sees no reason why a motion to enroll a section is not divisible as well as any other question. If there are two distinct propositions, so that each can stand by itself, it is competent for the Convention to decline to enroll either. Mr. ANTHONY. The point I wish to make is, that the Convention, having adopted the section as the action of the Convention, it stands as its action, and can only be reached by reconsideration. The PRESIDENT. The Chair under stands the point of order, and still sees no reason why a majority of the Convene tion should not decline to enroll any distinct proposition. The question is upon ordering the en rollmnent of the following language in the section numbered eleven: A majority of the directors of any railroad corporation now incorporated or hereafter to be incorporated by the laws of this State, shall be citizens and residents of this State. The yeas antd nays were ordered, and, being taken, resulted —yeas 42, nays 20 — as follows: NAYS. Abbott, Hayes, Allen of Alex., McDowell, Anderson, Neece, Cummings, Perley, Ellis, Ross, Fox, Sharp, Allen, of Cr'fd,Coolbaugh, Seholfield, Anthony, English, Tubbs, Archer, Forman, Wells, Bowman, Hanna, Wendling, Brown, King, Wright, Cary, Peirce, Mr. President —20. Cody, Poage, So section eight was ordered enrolled. Mr. CODY. Mr. President: The article continues, as follows: RAILROADS. SEOC. 9. Every railroad corporation organized or doing business in this State, under the laws or authority thereof, shall have and maintain a public office or place in this State for the transaction of its business, where transfers of stock shall be made, and in which shall be kept for public inspection, books, in which shall be recorded the amount of capital stock subscribed, and by whom; the names of the owners of its stock, and the amounts owned by them respectively the amount of stock paid in, and by whom the transfers of said stock; the amount ot its assets and liabilities, and the names and place of residence of its officers. The directors of every railroad corporation shall annually make a report, under oath, to the Auditor of Public Accounts, or some officer to be designated by law, of all their acts and doings, which report shall include such matters relating to railroads as may be prescribed by law. And the General Assembly shall pass laws enforcing by suitable penalties the provisions of this section. Mr. WALL. Mr. President: I would suggest that inasmuch as we have provided in the schedule, for the submission separately of the article on railroads, this ought to be an article by itself, instead of being treated as a continuation of article eleven. It ought to be article twelve by itself. Mr. CODY. Mr. President: The -committee will so arrange the schedule that it will refer to railroads from sections nine ton fifteen. YEAS. Abbott, Fuller, Robinson, Allen of Alx'n, Gamble, Sedgwick, Anthony, Goodell, Sherrill, Bayne, Goodhue, Snyder, Benjamin, Haines of Cook, Sutherland, Bryan, Haines of L'k.,Tincher, Cameron, Hart, Tubbs, Cary, Harwood, Underwood, Church, ttildrup, Vandeventer, Craig, McCoy, Wagner, Cross, Medill, Wait, Cummings, Merriam, Washburn, Dement, Parker, Wheaton, Eldredge, Perley, Wilson-42. Ellis, WEDNESDAY, CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION 1838 ,Mr. ROSS. My reason for desirii3g that is that it gives a great advantage to bond holders over aDy other class of persons or description of property, f nd looks as if it were drawn in the interest of bond holders and bankers alone. I would like to have the eighth section stricken out. The PRESIDENT. The question will be taken upon the enrollment of sections five, six and seven. Sections five, six and seven were order. ed enrolled. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the enrollment of the eighth section. The yeas and nays were ordered, and being taken, resulted-yeas 45, nays 18as follows: Atkins, Bayne, Benjamin, Bromwell, Browning, Bryan, Buxton, Cameron, Church, Craig, Cross, Dement, Eldredge, Fuller, Gamble Snyder' SkinDer, Turner, Vandeventer, Washburn, Wilson-18. ABSENT, OR NOT VOTING. Crlfd,Coolbaugh, Seliolfield, English, Tubbs, Forman, Wells, . Hanna, Wendl"ing, KID9, WrighT,, -9 Peirce, Mr. Preside'nt 0. 0 MAY 11, 1870. DEBATES AXI) I'ROCEEDtGS. 189 Mr. BROMWELL. Mr. President: I have no doubt the Chair is right. We adopt sections in an article, and for the tine being they form part of the article. They are adopted, but are at the same time pending until the final determinia tion of the Convention. We have rules, it is true, and they apply at each stage of the proceedings, but the Convention has an inherent power or right to put on pa per, finally, just what it wants. Here is a body of matter presented which has been revised, and, it is true, adopted, but it is pending for enrollment. We no v propose to enroll, and what we do not may be left laying over for the use of the next Constitutional Convention. What we choose to enroll we send out for the action of the voters of the State. I think it is perfectly competent for the Convention to enroll what it has a mind to. ["Question," "question."] The PRESIDENT. The question is, shall the decision of the Chair stand as the judgment of the Convention? The decision of the Chair was sustained. The PRESIDENT. The question is on the enrollment of section twelve. Mr. CODY. I will read section twelve again: SEC. 12. Railways heretofore constructed or that may hereafter be constructed in this State are hereby declared public highways, and shall be free to all persons for the transportation of their persons and property thereon, under such regulations as may be prescribed by law. And the General Assembly shall from time to time pass laws establishing reasonable maximum rates of charges for the transportation of passengers and freight on the different railroads in this State. The PRESIDENT. The question is on the enrollment of section twelve. The yeas and nays were ordered, and being taken, resulted-yeas 51, nays 16as follows: Ross, Sharp, Skinner, Truesdale, Wall, Wendling-20. been several important votes to-day, and a reason should app ea or for the ab sene of his name from the record. He was sudd enl y taken ill last night, and is today very sick. Leave wa s grant ed nev. c on. REVISION AND ADJUSTsmENT- AGAIN. Mlr. ATKINS. Mr. President: I see that the gentleman from Cook [Mr. Anthony] is in his seat, but did not vote. I ask that he be required to vote according t(o the rule. [Laughter.] Mr. CODY. The article continues: SEC. 13. No railroad corporation shall issue any stock or bonds, except for money, labor or property actually received and applied to the purposes for which such corporation was created; and all stock dividends, and other fictitious increase of the capital stock or indebtedness of any such corporation, shall be void. The capital stock of no railroad corporation shall be increased for any purpose, except upon giving sixty days public notice, in such manner as may be provided by law. SEC. 14. The exercise of the power and right of eminent domain shall never be so construed or abridged as to prevent the taking, by the General Assembly, of the property and franchises of incorporated companies already organized, and subjecting them to the public necessity the same as of individuals. The right of trial by jury shall be held inviolate in all trials for claims for compensation, when, in the exercise of the said right of eminent domain, any incorporated company shell be interested either for or against the exercise of said right. SEC. 15. The General Assembly shall pass laws to correct abuses and prevent UDjust discrimination and extortion in the rates of freight and passenger tariffs on the different railroads in this State, and enforce such laws by adequate penalties to the extent, if necessary for that purpose, of forfeiture of their property and franchises. Mr. BENJAMIN. Mr. Presideut: It seems to me that section fifteen is entirely unnecessary, and I call for a vote upon its enrollment. The yeas and nays were ordered, and, being taken, resulted-yeas 53, nays 14as follows: Allen of Crfid, Fox, Springer, Archer, Hanna, Turner, Bowman, McDowell, Wells, Brown, Peirce, Whiting, Coolbaugh, Pillsbury, Wright, English, Poage, Mr. President-20. Forman, Scholfield, So the last clause of section eleven was ordered enrolled. Te bl. he PRESIDENT. The gentleman from DuPage [Mr. Cody] w ill p roceed. Section eleven will be ordered enrolled. Mr. CODY. The report, Mr. President, continues: SEC. 12. Ra ilroad s here t ofore c onstructed or that may her eafter be constructed in this State are hereby declared public highways, and shall be f ree to all persons for the transp orta tion of their pe rson s and property thereon, under such regulatio n s as may be prescribed by l aw. And the General Assembily shall, from time to time, pass laws establishing reasonable maximum rates of charges for the transportation of passengers and freight on the different railroads in this State. Mr. ATKINS. Mr. President: I hope the first part of the secti on will not be enrolled. tr. HAINES, of Lake. Mr. President: Every understanding of, the rule is that when the qu estion is upon enrolling, it is u po n enrolling the whole article- oth erw is e we could never get through with our work. If gentlemen desire to raise a question upon a part of a sec tion, they can only d o so by a sus pension of the rules. I raise the questio n that it may be deci ded. The PRESIDENT. The Chair has already decided the question, and can see no reason why the question of enrollment cannot be divided. He thinks it is competent for any gentleman to insist upon a division. Mr. HAINES, or Lake. Mr. President: I then appeal from the decision of the Chair, in order that a precedent may be definitely settled. Mr. HAYES. Mr. President: This is a question of very great importance, and our decision may be quoted as a precedent in another Convention. I have no doubt the Chair has decided correctly. The power of the Convention is at all times unlimited in respect to the adoption or rejection of all parts of its work, except where restrained by its rules. We have passed the Constitution to this article, and the question is whether it shall be enrolled. It is in the power of the Convention, having framed the whole and every part of the Constitution, to decide that a particular part of it shall not go into the adopted Constitution, unless there is a special rule to prohibit that. There is no such rule. There -is no rule presenting the case, as it is presented by the gentleman from Lake {MKr.- Haines], cutting off the power of the Convention over its own work after revision, and before enrollment, The power, therefore, now exists ill its entirety, and the Convention can decide that an art. icle, or any particular section therein, shall not be enrolled as a part of the Contitution. ~ ~~~~YEAS. Abbott, Gamble, Pillsbury, Allen, of Alx. Goodell, Rice, Anderson, Goodhue, Robinson, Anthony, Haines of Cook,Ross, Bayne, Haines of L'ke,Sedgwick, Benjamin, Hankins, Sherrill, Bromwell, Hart, Snyder, Bryan, Harwood, Springer, Cameron, Hildrup, Sutherland, Cary, McCoy, Tincher, Church, McDowell, Tubbs, Craig, Medill, Wagner, Cross, Merriam, Wait, Cummings, Neece, Washburn, Dement, Parker, Wendling, Ellis, Parks, Whiting, Fuller, Perley, Wright-51. Abbott, Fox, Robinson, Allen of Alex. Gamble, Ross Anderson, Goodell, Sedgwick, Anthony, Goodhue, Sherrill, Atkins, Haines of CookSnyder, Bayne, Haines of Lake, Springer, Bromwell, Hankins, Sutherland, Bryan, Hart, Tincher, Cameron, Harwood, Tubbs. Cary, Hayes, Underwood, Church, Mc~oy, Wagner Craig, McDowell, Wait, Cross, Medill, Washburn, Cummings, Neece, Wendling, Dement, Parker, Wheaton, Eldredge, Perley, Whiting, Ellis, Pillsbury, Wright —53. Forman, Rice, NAYS. T ruesdale, Turner, Vandeventer, Wall-14. So section twelve was ordered to be enrolled. LEAVE OF ABSENCE. Mr. WENDLING. Mr. President: I desire to ask leave of absence for the gentleman from Greene [Mr. English]. I should have done so before, as there have s I MAY 11, 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1839 NAYS. Anderson, Atkins, Bromwell, Browning, Buxton, Cody, Hankins, Hay, Hayes, King, Moore, Neece, Parks, Rice, ABSENT, OR NOT VOTING. YE4-s. N,L-ys. Hayes, Moore, Sharp, Skiuner, Truesdale, A6tkins, Browning, Cody, Eldredge, Fox, Hay, Turner, Underwood, Vandeventer, Wall' Wheaton-16. Benjamin, Browning, Cody, Fuller, Hay, .Merriam-,, Moore, Parks,' Sharp, Skin7n'er, ABSENT, OR NOT VOTING. ABSENT, OR NOT VOTING. Allen of Crfd.,Fnglish, Poaze. Archer, Hanna, f3eh6'lAeld, Bowman, Hildrup, Brown,r,. King, r 11.1 10, Buxton, Peirce, Mr. President-16. Coolbaugh, So section fifteen was ordered enro'led. Mr. CODY. Mr. President: I Will next read article twel -e, as follows ARTICLE XII. MILITIA-. SECT-TON 1. The militia of the State of Illinois shall consist of all able-bodied malo Poage, Beholfield, wlls, Wilson Mr. President-16. &Ilen of C wf d, Englifh, Archer, Florman, Bowman, Hanna, Brown, I King, Buxton, Peirce, Coolbaugh, 1840 COSTITUTIOXAL COYEXTIONi THURSDAY, house; and the different grades of grain shipped in separate lots, shall not be mixed with inferior or superior grades without the consent of the owner or consignee thereof. Mr. TRUESDALE. I call for the yeas and nays on the enrollment of section two. The PRESIDENT. The gentleman will proceed through the article, and then the Chair will divide the question as gentlemen may desire. SEC. 3. The owners of property stored in any warehouse, or holder of a receipt for the same, shall always be at liberty to examine such property stored, and all the books and records of the warehouse in regard to such property. SEC. 4. All railroad companies and other common carriers on railroads shall weigh or measure grain at points where it is shipped, and receipt for the full amount, and shall be G responsible for the delivery of such amount to the owner or consignee thereof, at the place of destination. SEC. 5. All railroad companies receiving and transporting grain, in bulk or otherwise, shall deliver the same to any consigneethere of, or to any elevator or public warehouse, to which it may be consigned, provided such consignee or the elevator or public ware house can be reached by any track owned, leased or used, or which can be used by such railroad companies; and all railroad com panies shall permit connections to be made with their track, so that any such consignee and any public warehouse or coal bank or coal yard may be reached by the cars on said railroad. SEC. 6. It shall be the duty of the General Assembly to pass all necessary laws to pre ven t the issue of false and fraudulent ware house receipts, and to give full effect to this article of the Constitution, which shall be liberally construed so as to protect producers a nd shippers. And the enumeration of the remedies herein named shall not be construed to deny to the General Assembly the power to prescribe by law such other and further remedies as may be found expedient, or to. deprive any person of existing common law remedies. SEc. 7. The General Assembly shall pass laws for the inspection of grain, for the pro tection of producers, shippers and receivers of grain and produce. The PRESIDENT. Sections one, three, four, five, six and seven will be ordered enrolled. Question will be taken on the enrollment of the second section. Mr. TRUESDALE. Also on the fifth. Section two was ordered enrolled. Section five was ordered enrolled. The article was ordered enrolled. CANAL AND CANAL LANDS-AGAIN. Mr. TINCHER. I think there would be readng, wil stte hat he umbeingcanals enrolled without referring it to the IEYFIRH AY will ecomeartice thiteen.factory as adopted by the Conveation.THRDYMa 12180 ARTICLE XIIL ~a question of order whether we can reach,anwacaldtorebytePei WAREHOUSES. ~that. It has passed from this Conven-det S~cTON 1 Allelevtorsor sorehusestion.PRER whee gai oroter roert i stre fo a The PRESIDENT. It is not in order. Pae a fee yteRv r compnsaion whthe theproert stredIt would be substantially a reconsidera-Roeto,o rifedasflos public warehouses. ~~tion of the resolution.0Go,wthnThefrtelgtoan SEC 2.Th ower,leseeor angerof Mr. CODY. I will continue: ohrmrig etakTe o ho eachand verypublc waehoue siuate inARTICLE —.anhelhadpiieewihibrnst thosan iihaitatsshal akeweelystae- AMENDMENTS TO TEE CONSTITUTION. o vr odadeeypretgf,adhl raets,undr oth,befre omeomer t be SxCvzOx 1. Whenever two-thirds of the u,Hael ahr ofe htw r h desgnaed y lw, nd eepthesam potedmembers of each house of the General Assem-craue,tadrThefrwaThuati in omeconpicousplae i th ofic ofst~h bylsallsbyalvte ntredupo thojornasnTysef,doralltheinfniteexellncenofTh warhoue, nd hal alo fle coy i~ubicthereof, concur that a Convention is neces-chrce,adtgieTethnsfrwa examnatin insuchplac as hallbe dsigsary to revise, alter or amend the Constitution, To atdn o s n o,Hael na~~~~~~~~~~~tedbba,wihsaeetsalcretyte question shall be submitted to the electors Ftlr o eu'sk,frieu u is set ort th amont nd radeof achandat the next general elect'on. If a majority adacp l u oradipretsr evey knd f gainin uchwarhoue~tgctcrvoting at the election vote for a Convention, vcs withsuchothr prpert asmay e stredthe General Assembly shall, at the next ses- LeThblsigrsupntemmeso therin, nd hat arehuserecepts avesion, provide for a Convention, to consist of ti ovnin itTo ud hmi bee isued an ar, a th tie o maingdouble the number of members of the senate, altedte ftedy etakTe o suchstaemet, utsandig tereor;andto be elected in the same manner, at thethasuacthtTohatgvnu,ta shal, n te cpy ostd i th waehose,same places, and in the same districts. The i n a akwso n s fTe notedaiy suh ean~c asas my b mad inGeneral Assembly shall, in the act calling theThuwlgiethiliealanupri thequntiy nd rae f gai insuh wre -Convention, designate the day, hour' andhi no.O Fahrgrnthmgo persons resident in the State, between the ages of eighteen and forty-five, except such persons as now are or hereafter may be exempted by the laws of the United States or of this State. SEc. 2. The General Assembly in providing for the organization, equipment, and discipline of the militia, shall conform as nearly as practicable to the regulations for the government of the armies of the United States. SEC. 3. All militia officers shall be commissioned by the Governor, and may hold their commissions for such time as the General Assembly may provide. SEC. 4. The militia shall, in all cases except treason, felony or breach of the peace, be privileged from arrest during their attendance at musters and elections, and in going to and returning from the same. SEC. 5. The military records, banners and relics of the State shall be preserved as an enduring memorial of the patriotism and valor of Illinois, and it shall be the duty of the General Assembly to provide by law for the safe-keeping of the same. SEC. 6. No person having conscientious scruples against bearing arms, shall be compelled to do militia dutv in time of peace: Provided, such person shall pay an equivalent for such exemption. The PRESIDENT. The article will be enrolled. Mr. CODY. Mr. President: The next article is as follows: ARTICLE XIII. CANALS. place of its meeting, fix the pay of its members and officers, and provide for the payment of the same, together with the expenses neccesarily incurred by the Convention in the performance of its duties. Before proceeding, the memnbers shall take an oath to support the Constitution of the United States and of the State of Illinois, and to faithfully discharge their duties as members of the Convention. The qualification of members shall be the same as that of members of tbe senate, and vacancies occurring shall be filled in the manner provided for filling vacancies in the General Assembly. Said Convention shall meet within three months after such election, and prepare such revision, alteration or amendments of the Constitution as shall be deemed necessary, which shall be submitted to the electors for their ratification or rejection, at an election appointed by the Convention for that purpose, not less than two nor more than six months after the adjournment thereof; and unless so submitted and approved by a majority of the electors voting at the election, no such revision, alterations, or amendments, shall take effect. SEC. 2. Amendments to this Constitution may be proposed in either house of the General AEsembly, and if the same shall be voted for, by two-thirds of all the members elected to each of the two houses, such proposed amendments, together with the yeas and nays of each house thereon, shall be entered in full on their respective journals, and said amendments shall be submitted to the electors of this State for adoption or rejection, at the next election of members of the General Assembly, in such manner as may be prescribed by law. The proposed amendments shall be published in full at least three months preceding the election; and if a majority of the electors-voting at said election shall vote for the proposed amendments, they shall become a part of this Constitution. But the General Assembly shall have no power to propose amendments to more than one article of this Constitution at the same session, nor to the same article oftener than once in four years. The PRESIDENT. The article will be enrolled. The Illinois and Michigan canal shall never be sold or leased until the specific proposition for the sale or lease thereof shall first have been submitted to a vote of the people of the State at a general election, and have been approved by a majority of the votes polled at such election. The General Assembly shall never loan the credit of the State, or make appropriations from the treasury thereof, in aid of railroads or canals: Provided, that any surplus earnings of any canal may be appropriated for its enlargement or extension. Mr. HAYES. Mr. President: The Conveintion passed a resolution that that article be submitted separately. Mr. TURNER. Mr. President: I move that that article be referred back to the Committee on Revision and Adjustment, to be transferred to the schedule. The PRESIDENT. The motion will be declared agreed to by unanimous consent, and the Committee on Revision and Adjustment will prov de, in accordance with the instructions of the Convention, for a separate submission. Mr. CODY. Mr. President: The next article is entitled " Warehouses." Before reading, I will state that the numbering of the articles will be changed, and this will become article thirteen. NINETY-FO UR'c Tk DAIY. THURSDAY, May 12, 1870. The Convention met at nine o'clock, A. M., and was called to order by the President. ARTICLE XIII. WAREHOUSES. SECTION 1. All elevators or storehouses where grain or other property is stored for a compensation, whether the property stored be kept separate or not, are declared to be public warehouses. SEC. 2. The -owner, lessee or manager of each and every public warehouse situated in any town or city of not less than one hundred thousand in habitants,shall make weekly statements, under oath, before some officer to be designated by law, and keep the same posted in some conspicuous place in the office of such warehouse, and shall also file a copy for-public examination in such place as shall be designated by law, which statement shall correctly set forth the amount and grade of each and every kind of grain it such warehouse,toget her with such other property as may be stored therein, and what warehouse receipts have been issued, and are, at the time of making such statement, outstanding therefor; and shall, on the copy posted in the warehouse, note daily such changes as as may be made in the quantity and grade of grain in such ware 1840 CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION TiiuRSDAY, FEMALE SUFFRAGE. Mr. ATKINS asked, and by unanimous consent obtained leave to present a remonstrance from ladies of Jacksonville against female suffrage. The remonstrance was referred to the Committee on Suffrage. IADJO'URNMENT. Mr. HAYES. Mr. President: I move the Convention do now adjourn. The motion was agreed to. So the Convention (at six o'clock and twenty-one minutes) adjourned. - v o PRAYER. Prayer was offered by the Rev. Mr. Robertson, of SpriDgfield, as follows: 0 God, we thank Thee for the light of an. other morning. We thank Thee for the joy and health and privilege which it brings to us. Holp us to look up to Thee as the Giver of e ry good and every perfect — ift, and help us e only Falher, to!eel that we are Thy creatures, to adore Thee for what Thou art ia Thyself, for all the infinite excellences of Thy character, aT-d to give Thee thanks for what Thou hast done for us. And now, Heavenly Fat'"er, for Jesus' sake, forgive us our sins, and accept all our poor and imperfect services. Let Thy blessing rest upon the members of this Convention. Wilt Thou guide them in all the duties of the day.. We thank Thee for the assurance that Thou hast given us, that if any man lack wisdom and ask of Thee, Thou wilt give to him liberally and upbraid him not. Oh! Father, grant them good DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. What confidence can be had in a public . newspaper which has the effrontery to openly admit that it went in with a por tion of the board of trade to rob the people even to the amount of "quarter s robbery?" Well may the farmers and producers feel grateful to that sheet be. cause it was wilng to rob them of only one quarter of their hard earnings, and was not in for "whole robbery." That there may be no mistake with re spect to the connection that sheet and the C grain gamblers with whom it was opel rating, had with the warehouse bill in troduced into this body by the gentle. man from JoDaviess [Mr. Cary], I will quote further from the same article: Meanwhile, the gentlemen who were going for quarter-robbery had, in conjunction with Mr. Cary, of JoDaviess county (a very honest gentlerman), proposed an article, to be insert ed in the Constitution, based u,pon the idea that these toll-gates had a right to exist. Now, Mr. President, here is the proof, furnished by the friends of the ware house measure, that the article was pre pared by, and in the interest of the grain dealers in Chicago, for we have their admission through their confrere, the Chicago Tr-ibune, that they were going in for "quarter-robbery." The Tribune now assumes to be satis fied with the article as adopted by the Convention. It admits that the "quarter-robbery" portion of it was stricken out. It says: The warehouse article they have adopted is no more like Mr. Cary's article than chalk is like cheese. Some of the original words and phrases have been retained, but the whole theory of the article has been changed. Now, how was the change brought about? The article was prepared by the grain dealers, and, in the shape it was prepared, went before a committee of this Conventio,n, of which the gentleman from JoDaviess [MNr. Cary] was chairman. A grain dealer from Chicago went before that committee and engineered it through without change, and when it came before this body in Committee of the Whole, the chairman of the committee e[L4r. Cary], who had reported the article, moved its adoption, and made a speech in its favor. Not a word was said by him, or motion made to all end the article or any portion of it, until I attacked it and pointed out that there was not only "quarter robbery" ill it, but robbery of the most outrageous character. Aft er I had ventilated the iniquity which was concealed under the specmous gloss of protecting farmers and producers, the friends of the measure did consent to amenJd it so that, in- the language of the Tribune, "it is n~o more like the article which the gentleman from JoDaviess [Mr. Cary] introduced, than'chalk is like cheese,'"X and that is wherein I again offended the Tribune. I caused its "quarter robbery" to be stricken out of the article, thereby saved the farmers and producers from "quarter robbery," and deprived the Tribune and grain dealers of profits to that amount. The Tribune assumes that for that act I was likewise feed, because it closes its article as follows: We imagine Mr. Turner's objection to it Xs of the same sort as his objection to any disturbance of the fees of the Cook county ofriceholders. In what I have said concerning the Chicago Tmibune I wish it to be distinctly understood that i have had no reference counsel; grant them that prudence and tha discretion and that wisdom which will guid them in all their duties Give them grace to be faithful to those whom they represent her in this Convention, faithful to the highest in teresa;s of society and all justice, and faithfu unto Thee. Let Thy blessing rest upon Thy servant, th~ President of the Convention, and strengthen him tor the important position which hle oc cupies, and for all his duties. Guide us through all the duties of this da~ and through all the journey of life, ard save us at las t in Thy Kin gdom, through Jesu Christ our Lord. Amen. READING OF THE JOURNAL. The Secretary proceeded to read the journal of yesterday's proceedings, when Mr. SKINNER. I move the further reading of the journal be dispensed with. The motion was agreed to. NEW RULE. Mr. SKINNER. Mr. President: I ask the privilege of introducing, under the suggestion of quite a number of members, a rule, and will ask leave to give the rea sons for so doing. The general opinion of members, as far as I have had the op portunity of knowing, is that the judg ment of the Convention is thoroughly formed upon the matter adopted by it, and there seems to be a general desire to conclude its labors. I therefore offer this rule: RULE-.The reconsideration or amendment of any matter adopted by the Convention, the presenting or enrollment of any suen matter, instructions to the committee relating to the otimis,ion of any such matter or amend mentt thereof in the report, or adding any thing to the committee report, shall require the concurrence of two-thirds of the Conven tioni. Mr. BRYAN. I think it is too late now to adopt a rule that cotflicts with the practice of majorities ruling in our free government. There is but little more to do, and what is left can be done in a very few hours. I cannot now see any necessity for adopting a rule at variance with the usual mode of procedure. I am opposed to the resolution, and hope it will not be adopted. Mr. SKINNER. I have been compelled, on account of public duties, to be absent from this Convention somewhat, as has my friend from Marion [Mr. Bryan], and there are many things I desire exceeding. ly to be heard upon in debate, but I am satisfied that the judgment of the Con. vention has been made up on every ma terial subject. Mir. FEIGNER. I move the previous questranl upon the adoption of the rule. Mir. ROSS. Is it in order now to refer to the C~omimittee on Rules? The PRESIDENT. It is not in order. If the Con vention should decline to order the main question, it would be competent to move its commitment. Sir. DEMENT. Mr. President: Will it be in order to m~ove to lay the resolution on the table? The- PRESIDENT. T~he motion to lay o the table takes precedence of the motion for the previous question. Mr. McCOY. Mr. President: I call for tile yeas and nays. The yeas and navys4were not ordered. A division was ordered. The Convention divided, when, there being thirty-four in the affirmative and nineteen in the negative, the motion of Mdr. McCoyr, to lay the rule proposed by Mir. Skinner upon the table, was agreed 461~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ORDER OF BUSINESS. Mr. ALLEN, of Alexander. Mr. Pr ident: I desire to offer an addition section. The PRESIDENT. It is n ot a t tl present time in order, as the rule requir a certain order to be proceeded with d~ ing the morning hour. QUESTION OF PRIVILEGE. Mr. TURNER. Mr. President: I ri to a privileged quest ion. I believe I a the only member of this Convention wl has been publicly charged with voting a acting fora consideration. The character and reputation of th Convention depends somewhat upon tl character and reputation of its individu members. When one is assailed directl the other is indirectly assailel. Fro the leading editorial in the Chicago Tr bune, of May 7th, I quote as follows: THE WAREHOUSE ARTICLE. Mr. Turner, of Stephenson county, mem ber of the Constitutional Convention, is evi- dently a "bad egg." We endeavor to treat all the members of the Convention, by what soever party elected, accolrding to their true dignity, and, keeping this principle in view, we are compelled to describe Mr. Turner as above stated. He has distinguished himself during the,Convention in two ways: first, by taking the side of the clerk of the circuit court of Cook county, a-rainst the people, on the fee question-for which, we presume, he got his own fee, as we can conceive of no other reason for his course; and, second, by making an attack on the Chicago Tribune in reference to the warehouse question. If the writer of that article means by his language, "for which we presume he got his own fee, as we can conceive of no other reason for his course," that I receive directly or indirectly, compensation or fee for any vote or act of mine in this Convention, I pronounce the statement a wilful and malicious falsehood, and the author of it a cowardly slanderer who has not courage to resent the assertion. I differed with the Cook county delegation upon the question of the propriety of singling out the clerk of the circuit court of that county, dividing his office and reducing his fees. A large majority of the members of this Convention agreed with me in that difference. Why did not the Chicago Tribune include all those members who voted as I did on that subject and charge them likewise with hav ing been feed? The truth is that paper has for many years past sought on every occasion to malign and traduce my character. The immediate occasion of this last attack upon me was my opposition to the warehouse article as it was originally reported to this Convention. In the course of my argument upon that article I quo ted from the Tribune where it sustained my views. This was the head and front of my offending Now, to show the utter malignity of that sheet towards me. and its total lack of principle, I quote further from its editorial. The writer, treating of the action of some members of the board of trade 1 and the course I took on the warehouse article, goes on to say: It was a question, as Bastiat says, "between ] robbery, half-robbery, and quarter-robbery." When this venerable abuse became a matter of public controversy, a short time since, we 1 adopted the opinions of those members of the i Board of Trade in whom we had been accustomed to place most confidence. They were going in for quarter-robbery, and so we went C in for quarter-robbery. ua 461 M-&y 12, 1870. i 841 7..................... every member upon this floor, and, I suppose, at some ti;.ne hereafter, may find interest in looking over the results of their labors. By the resolution as adopted yesterday mrt rning, there being eighty-two members here, there will be five hundred copies left. Mr. TURNER. Why not also include appointed as well as elected officers? eMr. WELLS. I am perfectly willing to. As I said, there will be five huindred copies left with the Secretary of State, which would supply one to each supreme court library, and each official reporter anid officer. I shall make that motion at the proper time. Mr. WALL. Mr. President: I hope the motion will be adopted, and that we may print a large number in the German language. Six thousand copies is a very small number, in proportion to the number of German voters in the State. In the district which I have the honor in part to represent, there are more than half that number of German voters, and I very much desire that we may have enough copies of the Constitution in German, to supply that as thoroughly as we do any other class of our population. There are v( ry few German papers in the State. I do not think that ia my district there is a single German newspaper, though there must be at least three thousand German voters. Unless the number of copies is increased, I know of no way to reach that portion of my constituents. The publication of the Constitution in the newspapers of the district will not answer the purpose. I trust that the mo tion may be reconsidered, and that we may largely increase the number of Ger wman copies. Mr. SNYDER. Mr. President: I would like to say one word, sir, in regard to the publication of the Constitution'in the French language. I am, perhaps, the only person of French blood in this Convention. I speak the language, and am somewhtat acquainted with the num ber of French inhabitants in the State, particularly in my own county, and with their capacity for reading other lan guages. There are probably some ten thousand French people in our county. As early as 1684, the first white man,: Frenchman and a Catholic priest, set foot in what is now St. Clair county, at Caho kia, and around him grew up the first white settlement. Very strangely, the descendants of these people have not choseL to learn the Engiish language. It is a singuar fact that, from generation to generation, they have spoken only their original language. I had occasion to ob serve this recently in the trial of a cause awhere many of them appeared as wit nesses, not one speaking the English lan guage, though they were born there, and their lathers and grandfathers were born in the same spot. This fact is probably the result of a law of nature, or it may be a matter of taste. In this free land men have a right to learn but one lan guage if they wish. Aside from this French population I speak of, there isa very large number of Alsacian, and other German-French from the bor ders of the Rhine, who speak French, having learned it in French schools. There is a very large number of them who cannot read with any facility in any other than the French language. 1842 CONSTITUTIONAL'CONVENTION THUP.SDAY) Vvhatever to the gentleman from Cook [,Nlr. vIedill], wh-) is a large stockholder in the Tribune, company. There is no geatlemati on this fl,)or for whom I entertaia higher respect, or whom I esteem more,. I am sure he had no part in causidg this libelous article to be pub. lished. PETITIONS AND COI&MUNICATIONS. The PRESIDENT. The second order of business. The presentation of petitions and communications. For these reasons, sir, I hope that a ,sufficient number of copies, will be printed in the French lai-iguage, to say iiothijag of the compliment that should be paid to the first white pioneers ()f this State-those men who first traversed the wilds of the West, from the borders of Louisiana, in the one direction, a-tid from Canada, in the other-savage, wit(is which discouraged everybody else at that time -wilds which the Spaniards failed them. selves to penetrate. ADd, as a coinpli. ulient to the men who first made their tours in this wilderness, and who fouaded civilization within our State, I hope that a sufficient number of copies of this Constitution may be printed in the French language. I have learned from the editor of a French newspaper, a gentleman who edits a very good paper, and whose accuracy can be relied OD, that there are 200,000 French people ia this State; and this large Duiiiber deserves consideration at the hands of this Conveation. -These people are of sufficient number and respectability to iiidtice us to furnish them au ample supply of copies c,f the Constitution in their own language. Mr. MEDILL. Mr. President: 1 trust the motion to reconsider will prevail. Upon mature reflection I am satisfled that the number of copies ori,,inally ordered L Mr. SNYDER. If the gentleman will allow me, I want to say another word in regard to the German population. I think there are at least six or seven thousand German voters in the county of St. Clair. Nearly four-fifths of that county of fifty thousand inhabitants is German, and unless there is a large num uer of copies of the Constitution printed in -the German language it will be useless to print any at all. The Germans are gettidg to be a very large element of the State, but thouo,h favorable to our free schools, though amoi3g the very best citizens we have, and those best disposed to coinform to our laws, there are a great many who,- came here at adult a-e, and have been unable to learn the language sufficieiatly to read the Constitution un der,standidgly in English. Mr. MEDILL. I was about observing. that I hope the resolution will be recon sidered, and that the Convention will or der a more ample supply in the German FEMALE S-UFFRAGE. Mr. PERLEY. Air. President: I have a petition, a lono, one. from women in my district, requeetitig the favor of female suffrage, which I ask to have referrei to the C,)mmittee on Suffrage. The PRESIDENT. It will be so referred. The third order of business is the disposition of the motion of the geiitleinaa from Peoria [Nir. Wells], for the reconsideration of the resolution relating to printing the address and Constitution. PRINTING ADDRESS AND CONSTITUTION. -Ur. WELLS. Mr. President: I moved day bef)re yesterday a reconsideration of the resolution presented by the gentleman from Cook [LNir. CaraeroD] for the purpose of having the number of copies increased, and also for the purpose of having some copies printed in Fre.Dch. There is a provision in the resolution which has been adopted, f(,)r translation into the Scandinavian language-there being one hundred thousand or less Scandinavian- citizens in this State. There are over two hundred thousand French citizens in this State, as a gentleman who is the editor of a French paper and is well acquainted with the subject, informs me. In fact, the French were the earliest settlers in this State, and it would be but an act of justice to remember them in the printing. Only six thousand copies were ordered in German, making about seventy copies to each member of this Convention. ,On consultation with gentlemen who are acquainted with these facts, this seeius to me too small a number. For myself, I may say, that sevent. copies would be wholly inadequate, as there are teli thousand Germans in the city where I reside, who would prefer to have this -instrument in the German-laDguage. Three thousand copies were ordered in Scandinavian. The substitute I propose to introduce, will provide three thousand copies in Scandinavian, three thou-sand in French, twenty thousand in German, and :dfty thousand in Euglish. There were twciity-five thousand ordered. That would give about two hundred and forty copies to each member. Tho,-,e copies cost about one cent and a quarter or a cent and a half each, as I am MAY 12, 1870. DEBAT]S AD PROCiED1NGS. 1843 Now, while I am up, I propose to make Mr. CAMERON. As every member give to each of the State rificers now in Mr. CAMERON. As everv member seems to be in favor of the motion, and nobody opposed to it, I move the previous question. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the motion to reconsider the vote by which the Convention adopted certain resolutions on Tuesday mn rning. The motion wag agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the substitute for the resolutions, ()ffered by the gentleman from Peoria [VIr. Wells]. The Secretary read the substitute offered by Mr. Well-, as follows: Nlow, while I am up, I propose to make this general suggestio n to the Convention, that if we added a Fren ch editio n and a Scandinavian edition,a and a German edition, it will b e well for the members to confer toegether informally, and swap with each other. Many members represent constitueucies in which there are comparatively few German, or Scandinavian, or French, while others represent a large number of such constituents. Now, I would like to swap some copies in Et:,glish, if we print a liberal edition, for some copies in German, Scandinavian and French. In this wav we will be able to utilize all the copies, and place the njumber proposed to be printed in the hands of voters who desire to read them in their native tongue. I think, upon reflection, that 30,000 to 40,000 copies in English, 15,000 to 20,000 in Ge-rman, 4,000 to 6,000 in Scandiiiaa vian, and 4,000 to 6,000 in French, will be as few as we can well get along with, in justice to our constituents. Mlr. HAYES. Mr. Chairman: When this su l ject was first discussed in Convention, I expressed the opinion, which I still entertain, and it seems now to be the opinion of members of the Convention, that it would be desirable to have a pret ty large number of copies of the Constitution printed in pamphlet form. I believe the publication in the news. papers, alone, will not be sufficient. It will nrot give the people that assurance of correctness they will have from the pamphlet edition, printed from certified copies in the office of the Secretary of State. I, therefore, am in favor of printing a large number in pamphlet form. I also desire to have the number printed in the German and French languages increased. The number in German should be largely increased, as a verv large portion of our people, particularly in Cook county, in Adams, St. Clair and other counties, also, belong to that nationality, and read that language alone. Almost every intelligent man, of any ]Eur(,pean nation, who reads at all, reads the French language, and, inasmuch as we cannot print in the different dialects of the German language, we cannot give the Germans of the low countries an edition. We can reach persons of all European nationalities, who do not read English, by printing the Constitution in French. I hope the, proposition of the gentleman fro)m Peoria [Mr. Wells] will be so considered as to include the French ann guage, and that the number will not be less than six thousand. MIr. PERLEY. Mr. President: I am in favor of the proposition to have a larger number of the pamphlet edition. I think gentlemen will agree that if the pamphlet edition can be put in the hands of the yet rs of this State, it will be better and more satisfactory than anything we can get from the newspapers. And it occurs to me that inasmuch as the census is about to be taken, and the marshals in every county are to commence their labors on the first,of June (as I see by the papers), this pamphlet edition if put into the hands of the marshals to be distributed, can reach the people of every county in the State by this means. I think there should be a large edition, and I suggest this as a mode of distribution which may not have occurred to some members. Resolved, That the Secretary of State be directed to have prepared forthwith a correct and careful translation of the Address and Constitution into the German, Scandinavian and French languages, at a cost not to exceed three dollars per page. Resolved, That the Secretary of State be di rected to have printed forthwith, in pamphlet form, fifty thousand copies of the Constitution and Address, in English, twenty thousand copies of the same in German, and six thousand copies each in French and Scandinavian, the paper for the same to be furnished by the State, and the documents to be forwarded by express, in equal numbers, at the public expense, to the mnembers of the Convention. Resolved, That the Secretary of State be instructed to furnish to each weekly newspaper in the State, at the earliest practicable moment, two printed copies of the revised Constitution and Address for publication, in accordance with resolutions previously passed by this Convention. wResolved, That the Seeretary of State be directed to forward, at public expense, by exp-es, to each member of the Convention, thirty copies of the Convention Globe when bound, and twenty copies of the journal of proceedings. Resolved, That one copy of the debates and journal be furnished each supreme court library, two copies to the secretaries of the Convention, one copy to each the Governor, Lieutenant Governor, Secretary of State, Auditor, Treasurer, Attorney General, and Superintendent of Public Instruction, one copy to each ot the official reporters of this Convention, and each of the officers of this Con vention, to be sent to his address as above provided. Mr. BROMWELL. Mr. President: The resolutions speak about the number to be printed in the Scandinavian language. What I wish to ask is, whether it is intended to print in each of the Scandinavian languages, or, if not, in which one-whether the Swedish, Norwegi*,in or Danish? Mr. SNYDER. The Scandinavian language is spoken in Sweden, Denmark, Norway, and part of Finiland. Mr. BROMWELL. There is a large number of Norwegians in the State, and it would be well to print the Constitution in that language. Mr. WELLS. I am not particular about the languages. I do not read any of them. I leave that to the discretion of the gentlemen. Some gentleman has suggested that six thousand should be printed in French. I desire to make it SO. Gentlemen appear to have no objection to the number of copies, but there has been no expression of opinion as to whether or not we should distribute the extra copies of journal and debates as suggested in the resolution. I earnestly hope gentlemen will vote for that part of the resolution. There will be, even with that, five hundred copies of debates and journal left in the Secretary's office for use of succeeding Legislatures as books of reference. It is no more than an act of justico to Resolve.d, That each officer of State, each elected officer of this Convention, and each reporter that has been admitted to a seat as reporter of this Convention, or ot papers, be entited to one copv of the printed debates of this Convention when printed in Globe form, to be derlivered by t he Sec ret ary of Stateto each of them, for which they shall give their receipt to the Secretary to be filed in his office; and also each appointed officer of this Convention. Also, the judges of the supreme court. Mr. KING. That amendment and the resolutions offered by the gentleman from Peoria [Mr. Wells], differ, I believe, in only one particular. As I understood his proposition, it did not include the newspaper reporters. I wish the regular Convention reporters should have a copy of the debates, and also the newspaper reporters and judges of the supreme court. Mr. TINCHER. I hope the resolutions and all the amendments will be voted down. Mr. ROSS I desire to add "each newspaper published in this State." The PRESIDENT. The amendment cannot be entertained, as the gentleman from Vermilion [Mr. Tincher] has the floor. Mr. TINCHER. Mr. President: We have heretofore made ample provision for the publication of the Constitution. Wherever there is a German population of any considerable amount, a German paper is published, which will publish this Constitution, and where such a population is sparse the amount already or. dered will supply all demand. I hope this discussion will go no fur. ther, and that we will not squander any more money upon what is not absolutely unnecessary, as we have heretofore exhibited great frugality. I move to lay upon the table both the resolutions and the amendment, and I call for the yeas and nays. The yeas and nays were ordered, and being taken, resulted-yeas, 20, nays, 44 — as follows 31AY 12, 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEI[)INGS. 1843 give to each of the State (-.fficers now in ()ffice a copy, and to each of the officers in the Conveiition. The only question is as to the official reporters. I do not think there is any objection to giving them a copy. They have labored most faithfully, aiid I believe to the entire satisfaction of everybody. They are gei-itlemen of intelligence and acquaintance with debates of this kind, and their labors in this form will possess a value to them that will be of peculiar interest hereafter. I hope the resolution will be adopt ed. I desire to add that the addition, "re. porters and officers of Convention," was made at the suggestion of the gentleman from Jersey [,Nl.r. K,'iial; alsf) "Govc-.roor, Secretary and Treasurer of State, aud Sup,-,riritendent of Public Instruction.". Mr. CA LNIERON. I moved the previous question some time ago, aud debate is not in order. The PRESIDENT. The Chair did not hear, and cannot recognize the motion. Mr. KING. IVIR. President: I want to offer an amendment to the proposition oftered bv the Lyentleman from Peoria [Mr. Wells]. The Secretary read the amendment offered by Mr. King, as follows: - 184:OSIUINLCNETO HRDY So the amendment offered by Mr. King was agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is on the resolution as amended. Mr. ROSS. Mr. President: I move to amend so as t> include one editor of each newspaper in the State. Mr. MOORE. Mr. President: I ask for the reading of the resolutions and amendments. It seems to me we are spending an immense amount of money this morning very carelessly. The Secretary read the resolutions offered by Mr. Wells, the amendment thereto offered by Mr King, and agreed to, and the amendment offered by Mr. Ross, as fo)llows: [Resolutions offered by Mr. Wells.] Resolved, That the Secretary of State be directed to have prepared forthwith a correct a. nd careful translation of the Address and Constitution into the German, Scandinavian and French languages, at a cost not to exceed three dollars per page. R esolved, That the Secretary of State be directed to have printed forthwith, in pamphlet form, fifty thousand copies of the Constitution and Addre-ss in English, twenty thousand copies of the same in Gei man, and six thousand copies each in French and Scandinavian, the paper for the same to be furnished by the State, and the documents to be forwarded by express, in equal numbers at the public expense, to the members of the Convention. Resolved, That the Secretary of State be instructed to furnish to each weekly newspapaper in the State at the earliest practicable moment, two printed copies of the revised Constitution and Address for publication, in accordance with resolutions previously passed by this Convention. Resolved, That the Secretary of State be directed to forward, at public expense, by express, to each member of the Convention, thirty copies of the Convention Globe, when bound, and twenty copies of the Journal of Proceedings. -Resolved, That one copy of the debates and journal be furnished each supreme court library, two cod)ies to the Secretaries of the Convention, one copy to each the Governor, Lieutenant Governor, Secretary of State, Auditor, Treasuer, Attorney General, and Superintendent of Public Instruction, one copy to each of the official reporters of this Conventiont, and each of the officers of this Convention, to be sent to his address as above provided. [Amtnendment offered by Mr. King and agreed to.] -Resolved, That each officer of the State, each elected officer of this Convention and each reporter that has been admitted to a seat a s reporter of this Convention, or of papers, be entitled to one copy of the printed debates of this Convention when printed in Globe form, to be delivered by the Secretary of State to each of them, for which they shall give their receipt to the Secretary to be filed in his office; and also each appointed officer of this Convention; also the judges of the supreme court. [Amendment offered by Mr. Ross:] And one copy to each newspaper of the State. Mr. MOORE. Mr. President Mr. MEDILL. Mr. President: If the Bgentleman will allow, I wish to make an inquiry. I understand thereis a motion to send a copy of the debates and journal to each of the newspapers of the State. I wish to say that members should themselves supply the newspapers of their district with copies of the debates. NMr. MOORE. Mr. President: It is well for us, before making these reckless appropriations contemplated by the resolution and amendments, to consider the cost of what we have already done. I wil l read a portion of the report of the Committee on Accounts and Expenditures of the Convention. YEAS. Benjamin, Merriam, Sherrill, Church, / Moore, Springer, Dement, Parker, Tinche,r Hart, Parks, Truesdale, Harwood, Perlevy, Tubbs, Hildrup, Ross, Wagner-2G. McCoy, Sedgwick, NAYS. Allen of Alex.,Ellis, Robinson, Abbott, Forman, Sharp, Anderson, Fox, Snyder, Anthony, Gamble, Sutherland, Archer, Goodell, Turner, Bayne, Good hue, Vandeventer, Bromwell, Haines of CookWall, Brow ning, Hain es of Lake,, tashburn, Bryan, Hankins, Wells, Buxton, Hayes, Wendling, Cameron, King, Wheaton, Craig, McDo well, Waiting, Cross, Medill, W ilson, Cummings, Peirce, Wright-44. Eldredge, Pillsbury, ABSEr-7, OR NOT VOTING. Allen of Crwfd,English, Rice, Atkins, Fuller, Scholfield, Bowman, Hanna, Skinner, Brown, Hay, Underwood, Cary, Noece, Wait, Cody, Poage, Mr. President-19. Cooibaugh, So the motion of Mr. Tincler to lay on the table the resolutions offered by Mr. Wells, and the amendment thereto offered by Mr. King, was not agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is on the amendment offered by the gentleman from Jersey [Mr. King]. ["Read," "read."] The Secretary will read the amendment. The Secretary read the amendment offeredl by Mr King, as follows: -Resolved, That each officer of State, each elected officer of this Convention, and each reporter that has been admitted to a seat as reporter of this Convention, or of papers, be entitled to one copy of the printed debates of this Convention, when printed in Globe form, to be delivered by the Secretary of State to each of them, for whichi they shall give their receipt to the Secretary to befiled in his office; and also each appointed officer of the Convention. Also, the Judges of the supreme court. . Your committee estimate the cost of reporting for this Conv ention at fromn $t6,000 to $20,000, not counting the d,aaper us ed by the reporters, all other articles furnished to the reporters to be charged them in final settlement.'That the printing do)ne by the eyqister office for the first fo)rty days was estimated at $3,500. At the same late the cost of the printing done and to lie done by the Register office must cost the State from $8,750 to $10,000. This is upon the old estimate of the cost. We are now attempting to increase it largely. A resolution giving every voter in the State a copy of these debates would hardly be more extravagant. Mr. MEDILL. Mr. President: I would say to the gentleman, if he will permit me, that I do not understand the resolution contemplates any larger edition than the Convention had previously ordered; and there will consequently lie no additional expense incurred, except for the copies of the Constitution ordered to be printed for circulation among the people. Mr. MOORE. I will read a little further: That your committee,without having much reason or data for it, presume that the amnount of the bill from the Jour-nal office f,)r all printing done and to be done by that office Arill be about thesame as the bill from the Begister office; they therefore estimate this am'ount at trom $8,000 to $10,000. Your committee would further report that they cannot give any exact data as to the cost of paper; that the Secretary has already delivered to the Re~y.ister office several thousand dollars worth, and to the Journal office about sarne amount. I have not put in the exact amount, but presume that it will amount to some ten thousand dollars in all, perhaps more. I will say that the resolution intro. duced this morning will cost the State ten thousand dollars over and above the expenses above stated. The cost now of this Convention will be in the neighborhood of one hundred and seventy thousand dollars, and if we go on at this rate, much more. IThese resolutions should all be referred to the proper committee, and some esti. mate of the cost be made. It will not do for us to go home with this extravagant record. Members already have had too many copies allotted to them, which they are goiLg to distribute all aroutnd the country among their friends. Then give every newspaper (as we have already voted) thirty dollars each, making from six thousand to te,' thousand dollars in that item, and to give every reporter, janitors and to every clerk of com~mittee in the State, a copy of our journal and debates, is too much. Mr. CAMERON. Mr. President: The resolutio)ns have becomne so embarrassed with the amenidmfents that have been offered, that it will be impossible, without considerable time being occupied in their discussion, foz us to act up )m them. We print three thousand colpies of the debates in Globe form. We have vested thirty copies to each member of the Convention for disiributionl. This will consume upwards of two thousand five hundred of the three thousand copies. It is estimated that there are about four hundred newspapers mn the State. If, therefore, we vote one copy of the diebates to) each paper, we have but one hundred copies of the edition left, and these remaining copies it is proposed to vote to the reporters and other o)fficials. The Secretary of State will thus be left without a single volume for the State li The yeas and nays were ordered, an d being taken, resulted-yeas 35, nays 25as followes: NAYS. Haines of CookSedgwick, LHart, Springer, Moore, Tincher, Neece, Truesdale, Parker, Wagner Parks, Wait Perley, Wheaton Pillsbury, Whiting —25. AB SENT, OR NOT VOTING. Allen of C'fd. Hanna, Scholfield, Anthony, Harwood, Skinner, Atkins, Hay, Sutherland, Bowman, Hildrup, Underwood, Brown, Peirce, Wall, Cary, Poage, Wendling, Cody, Rice, Mr. President-23. Coolbaugh, Ross, CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION TiiURSDAY) 1844 YEAS. Allen of Alex. Forman, Robinson, Abbott, Faller, Stiarp, Aiia-erson, Gtinble, Stierrill, Arelier, Goodliue, Snyder, Bayne, Haines ofLakeTibbs, Brvan, Hankins, Turner. Buxton, -Ilayes, Vandev'enter, Cameron, Kinz, Washburn, C r o s.-,, me6y, wells, Cummings, McDowell, Wilson, Ellis, Medill Wright-35. F,ngli.sh, Merria'm, Benjanain, Bromwell, ]3ro wning, Church, Craig, Dement, Eldredge, 'Fo-K, Goodell, A-,7 1~. EAiSAI ROEJG.14 retary of State is hereby authorized, when audited by the Auditor of State, to draw on the Treasurer for the amount so expended by him in transmitting said Constitution and Address, either by mail or express, to said members. The resolution was referred to the Committee on Printing and Binding. Mr. ANTHONY. On the same subject, I have another resolution. The Secretary read the resolution offered by Mr. Anthony, as follows: Resolved, That all members of this Convention who have not taken the number of the daily copies of the Convention Journal allowed them by resolution of the Convention, be allowed an equivalent number of the bound copies of the Convention Journal. Mr. ANTHONY. We were allowed thirty copies, I believe, of the Daily tJournal. By mistake I took no more than twenty copies. and probably other members are similarly situated. Mr. TINCHER. I took a good many mo re than my number, and who is to pay back my part of it? The resolution offered by Mr. Anthony was referred to the Committee on Printindg an-d Binding. The PRESIDENT. Th e Secretary will read the proposition. The Secretary read the proposition of. fered by Mr. Allen, of Alexander, as follows: Nothing in this Constitution shall be so construed as to prevent the General Assembly from legalizing subscriptions to stock in riailroad companies, by counties or other municipal corporations heretofore made, in excess of the provisions of existing laws, by a majority vote of the people, when rights have accrued and money has been expended on the faith' of such subscriptions. 3Mr. WHEAqTON. Mr. President: I move'that the Convention take a recess until three o'clock in the afternoon. ADJOURNMENIT. Mr. ARCHER. Mr. President: I move that the Convention no now adjourn till two o'clock. A division was ordered. The Convention divided, when the motion was not agreed to. brary, and without a sinle volume fo r the use of any officer-in the State —to say nothing of the copies courtesy requires us t n to send to institutions outside of the State. We are limited in number to three thousand copies, and cannot vote them away in this wholesale manner. If each member receives thirty copies, it will be his duty to supply the newspapers of his county with a copy ~f the Globe. If it is necessary for us to supply the newspapers direct, and give copies away indiscriminately to the reporters and others, we must cut down the num ber we propose to give the members. If we adopt the resolution and the amendments in form as now offered, we will be voting away more than we have ordered. Mr. WAGNER. I move we refer this whole matter to the Committee on Printing, and upon that I call for the previous question. The PRESIDENT. The previous question is not applicable to a motion to commit: but a motion to commit is only debatable within very narrow limits, and the Chair will enforce the rnle. Mr. KING. I desire to correct the gentleman from DeWitt [Mr. Moore]. The resolution I offered will not increase the cost one cent. The PRESIDENT. The gentleman is going into the merits of the question, which is out of order. The yeas and nays were ordered, and, being taken, resulted-yeas 44, nays 20 — as follows: RECESS. .fr. WHEATON. Mr. President: I desire to move an adjournment until three o'clock. The Committee on Revision and Adjustment found it impossible to go over the schedule last evening, and it is necessary that we should work today. DurinLg the session of the Convention their duties are required here, and in order that the schedule may be reported this evening for the action of the Convention, and pass into the bands of the enrolling clerk, I move the Convention do now adjourn. RECESS. The PRESIDENT.. The-question is on the motion of the gentleman from Kane [Mr. Wheaton], that the Convention take a recess until three o'clock this afternoon. A division was ordered. The Convention divided, when, there being thirty-six in the affirmative and twenty-nine in the negative, the motion was-agreed to. So the Convention (at ten o'clock and forty minutes A. m.) took a recess until three o'clock P. ~I. YEAS. Allen of Alex.,English, Anderson, Fox, Anthony, Fuller, Bayne,. Goodell, Benjamin, Hankins, Bromwell, Hart, Buxton, Harwood, Cameron, Hay, Cary, Hildrup, Church, McCoy, Craig, McDowell Cross, Merriam, Cummings, Moore, Dement, Parker, Eldredge, Ross, AFTERNO ON SESSION. THURSDAY, May 12, 1870. The Convention met at three o'clock P. Mf., and was called to order by the President. BMUNICIPAL AND OTHER SUBSCRIPTIONS. Mr. ALLEN, of Alexander. Mr. President: I hope the motion will be withdrawn for a moment. I have a proposition which I conceive to be of considerable interest to the whole people, and offerfor the Consideration of the Convention. ["Read," "Read."] I desire to say a word in explanation. Under a provision which we have adopted, any subscription to railroads by counties, towns and municipalities, in excess of law existing at the time, are void, and the Legislature have no power whatever to ratify or validate. In several counties in my portion of the State, the counties not being well advised of what the existing law was with reference to the amount of subscriptions-supposing it not limited to $100,000-subscribed to the extent of $150,000. The bonds are about being issued, and the work for which the subscription was made is approaching completion. It is now found that the bonds cannot be issued. I wish to reserve to the Legislature the power, these sbscriptions being made invariably by a popular majority, to validate the subscriptions. Mr. TINCHER. Mr. President: Can not the Legislature do that now? Mr. ALLEN, of Alexander. MIr. President: There is a general law limiting such subscription to $100,000; and unless there is some provision in the charter of the particular railroad, there is no exception. There is a case of that kind in my district, where money has been expended, and where, if some provision is not made, the bonds for the amount cannot be lksued. Abbott, Goodhue, Robinson, Archer, Haines of Co'k, Snyder, Browning, Haines of Lake, Vandeventer, Bryan, Hayes, Wells, Ellis, King, Wilson, Forman, Parks, Wright-20. Gamble, Pillsbury, ABSENT, OR NOT VOTING. Allen of Cr'fd.,Medill, Scholfield, Atkins, Neece, Skinner, Bowman, Perley, Truesdale, Brown, Peirce, Turner, Cody, Poage, Underwood, Coolbaugh, Rice, Mr. President-19. Hanna, So the mo tion of M r. Wagner, to refer the resolutions offered by Mr. Wells, and the amendments thereto, to the Committee on Printing and Binding, was agreed to. Mr. WHEATON. Mr. President — Mr. KING. Mr. President: I want to offer a resolution, and have it referred to the same committee. The Secretary read the resolution offered by Mr. King, as follows: .Resolved, That eighty-five thousand copies of the new Constitution and Address of the State of Illinois be published in pamphlet form, and that the Secretary of State be required to transmit by express or mail, to each member of this Convention, one thousand copies of said Constitution for distribution amongst the people of his district; and that the See 462' 3f AY 121 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1845 Sedgwick, Sharp, Sherrill, Springer, Sutherland, Tincher, Tubbs, WaQ:n6r, Wat, I Wall' War,,'hburn, Wendling, Wheato" Whiting-L44. T]EIANKS TO SECRETARIES. Mr., CUMMINGS introduced the f,,jllow!,Dg resolution, which was read b the y Secretary and agreed to: Resolved, That:the thanks of this Conven. tion be tendered to John Q. Harmon, Daniel Shepard and II. H. Swain, the Secretaries ot the Convention, for the 1)rompt and efficient manner in which they have discharged their duties as Secretaries. Mr. SKINNER. Alr. Preside —t: I desire to offer a resolution personal to the presiding officer of the Convention. The PRESIDENT. The gentleman froin Cook [idr. Hayes] will please tak-, the chair. . The PRESIDENT, pro tempore (Mr. Hayes in the chair). The Secietary will read the resolution offered by the gentleman from Adams [ r. Skinner]. The Secretary read the resolution offered by Mr. Skinner, as follows: Resolved, That the thanks of the members of this Convention are hereby expressed and extended to the Hon. Charles IIitchcock, for the irnpartial, courteous and effleient manner with which he has discharged the duties of presiding officer of this Convention. The resolution was unanimously agrecd NAYS. to. ENROLLING CLERKS. Mr. WALL. Mr. President: I desire to introduce a resolution which I think will expedite somewhat the business of the Convention. The Secretary read the resolution offered by Mr. Wall, as follows: Resolved, That the Committee on Revislon be instructed to employ such a number of IF 184 COSIUTOA COY-I~ HRD e i e st INDEX TO JOURNAL. Resolved, That the Secretary of this Convention be, and he is hereby authorized to prepare an index to the journal of proceedings of this Convention, at a cost not ex ceeding $200. OFFICIAL PROOF-READER. Resol ved, That the official charged with the revision and proof-reading of the debates receive, in compensation for his services, the same compensation allowed to the officers of this Convention. I will explain wherein the resolutions differ from those referred back to the committee this morning. The first resolution is the same as pre viously passed upon in Convention. Mr. WAIT. Mr. President: As I un- derstood the matter, the committee were to insert a provision for the publishing of the Constitution and the address, in the Swedish language. There are a large number of Swedes in our section of the State who will not feel satisfied unless this be done. Mr. CAMIERON. Mr. President: The gentleman will be satisfied when I have explained. The resolution provides as follows: .Resolved, That the Secretary of State be directed to have prepared forthwith a correct and careful translation of the address and Constitution into the German, Scandinavian, and French languages, at a cost not to exceed three dollars per page. There are two Sca-ndinavian languages, one spoken by two of the nationalities, and one by the third. The Swedes as well as the Danes, are Scandinavians, and it is not intended to overlook them. The only difference between the resolu tion, as now offered and that originally acted upon, is the insertion of the word "French." There are probably as many people in the State who speak the French language as who speak the Scandinavian, and it would be improper to discrimi nate against the French. We, therefore, at the solicitation of many members, as well as for the reason stated, conclude it will be well to pro. vide for the wants of the French. This is the only change made in the resolu tion. Mr. WAIT. Mr. President: If the committee would insert the "Norwegian" and "Swedish," instead of the "Scandi n iavian," I think it would be gratifying to the Swedish population. e Mr. CAMERON. Mr. President: The ' o nly objection in the minds of the com mitte e to doing so is, that it will be mak itg a distinction without a difference. It h would be about the same as if we were to distinguish between the English and Scotch on the ground that they might not be included under the term "British." The Swedish nation is Scandinavian, and : I suppose the Swedes compose two-thirds t of the Scandinavian nationalities. The term certainly embraces the Swedes, if it embraces any. Mr. CHURCH. Mr. President: Does the gentleman mean to say that three fourths of the Scandinavian population are Swedes? My understanding is that more than three-fourths are Norwegians. Mr. CAMERON. Mr. President: I did not say that three-fourths of the Scandinavians in this country are Swedes, but that Sweden is the principal Scandi navian nation, having a population em bracing two-thirds, or at least more than half of the Scandinavians here and in Eu rope. Sweden is much larger than Nor way and Denmark, the other two Scan d enrolling clerks as may be necessary to have the Constitution completely enrolled, by tomorrow at 9 A. m. Mr. WALL. I understand, sir, that but one clerk is being engaged in enrolling the Constitution, and am0 to ld th at it will be several da ys, at the rate at which he is going, before it will be com pletedl. The Convention probably does not desire to remain any longer than to morrow, and I am assured that the Constitu tion cannot be enrolled by one clerk ear lier than Saturday or Monday. I think we ought to have an additional numbe of clerks. Mr. ROSS. Mi,r. President: I concur with the gentleman that it cannot be enrolled before the middle.of next weekso I am informed by the Secretary-but I am not in favor of the adoption of the resolution. In 1862, if I mistake not, members signed the Constitution before it was entirely enrolled. The Constitution is enrolled in sheets, and we can just as well sign a sheet and leave it with the Secretary of State, the Governor, the gentle. man from S-angamon [Air. Hay], or whomever we may agree upon, to see that the enrollment is correct. I do not believe we can get clerks enough to work upon it, to get it through by the time that we adjourn. It will also be better to have it in the same handwriting. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore (Mr. Hayes in the chair). The question is upon the resolution proposed by the gentleman from Perry [Mr. Wall]. The resolution was agreed to. CONSTIT'UTION AND ADDRESS-DEBATES. Mr. CAMERON. Mr. President: I ami instructed bv the Printing Committee to offer the following report, presented in the form of a series of resolutions. TRANSLATION OF ADDRESS AND CONSTITU TION. Besolved, That the Secretary of State be directed to have prepared forthwith a correct and careful translation of the address and Constitution, into the German, Scandinavian and French languages, at a cost not to exceed $3 per page. PRINTING OF THE CONSTITUTION AND AD DRESS. -Resolved, That the Secretary of State be directed to have printed forthwith, in pamphlet form, 30,000 copies of the address and Consti tution in English, 15,000 copies of the same in German, 5,000 copies of the same in Scandina vian, and 5,000 copies of the same in the French language —the paper for the same to be furnished by the State, and the documents to be forwarded by express, in equal numbers, at the public expense, to the members of this Convention. ~I)EBATES TO NEWSPAPERS. .lesolved, That the Secretary of State be instructed to furnish to each weekly newspaper in the State, at the earliest practicable moment two printed copies of the revised Constitution and address, for publication, in accordance with resolutions previously passed by this Convention. dinavian na t ions, combined. I think I am correct in this statement. Mr. CHURCH. Do the committee un derstand the written language of Sweden and Norway to be the same? Mr. CAMERON. Mr. President: There is not much difference in the languages, but we have provided for both by using the term "Scandinavian," and have also provided for the Danes. Mr. SNYDER. Mr. President: Oneis only a dialect of the other. There is about the same difference as between the English and the American. Mr. CAMERON. Mr. President: I will state that the term here used has not been before the committee for reconsideration. It is the language of the original resolution, to which no obj ection was offered. I pass to the second resolution, having reference to the number of copies of the Constitution to be printed. The differ ence between this and the forner resolu tion is, that we recommended the print ing of twenty five thousand copies of the Constitution in the English language. The amendment presented by the gen tleman from Peoria [Mr. Wells] recom miended fifty thousand copies; but the committee, taking into consideration the fact that we have provided, at a very considerable expense, for laying before the entire reading population of the State the Constitution and address, through the columns of all the weekly-papers, thought it unnecessary to print so large a number in pamphlet form. Thirty thousand copies, divided among the members, will give each member three hundred and fifty copies. This will be amply suffi cient, and we do not recommend the number to be increased. -e -,: The Germans have five or six papers only in this State. In some parts of the State the Germans comprise half of the population. The committee are of opin ion that fifteen thousand copies (half the number printed in English) will be suffi cient-five thousand copies in French, and five thousand in Scandinavian-in all, fifty-five thousand copies; the print. ing of which, with the Address, we esti mate will cost from eleven to twelve hundred dollars. Mr. WELLS. I suggest right there that these copies ought to be accompanied by a copy of the resolution directing country publishers to publish the Constitution. There are many papers in the State the proprietors of which mzay fail to see the resolution of the Convention in time. Mr. C)AMERON9. I have no objection to accepting the amendment of the gen tleman; but, at the same time, does the gentleman fromn Peoria [Mr. Wells] be lieve that any country newspaper is so short-sighted as to lose the chance of earning thirty dollars? The third resolution is as formerly pre sented. if the fourth resolution is ap — proved and complied with, there will be about three hundred copies of the Globe left, which ought to be retained in the library of the State for future reference and use. The fifth resolution authorizes the Sec retary to prepare an index for the Jour nal of the proceedings of the Convention at a cost not exceeding two hundr ed dollar s. We will be compelled, of course, to in dex the Journal. It wil~wbe valueless with NAL. Resolved, That the Secretary of State be directed to lfbrward, at public expense, by express, to each member of this Convention, thirty copies of the Convention Globe, and twenty copies of the journal of proceedingsthat one copy of said debates and journal be furnished to the Governor, Lieutenant Governor, Secretary of State, Auditor, Treasurer, Attorney General and Superintendent of P ablic Instruction; that one copy of said debates and journal be supplied to each supreme court library, and one copy to each assistant secretary and official reporter and assistant reporter of this Deention. 1846 CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION THUP,SD.&Y, DISTRIBUTION OF THE DEBA.TES &ND JOTJR MAY 12, 1870. DEBATES D PROCEEDINGS. 184w ou nidx n h uyo aigi r OR.Tati,tredlas M.COS r rsdn:Imv Mr. MOORE. That is, three dollars for each printed page of one copy of the Constitution and address? Mr. CAMERON. Yes, sir. Mr. MOORE. Not three dollars for each page the translators may write out? Mr. CAMERON. No, sir; the rate is as low as the work can be done for. Mr. MOORE. Will the gentleman modify the resolution, so as to say seven ty-two dollars, that the Convention may know just what it is? Mr. CAMERON. We cannot tell ex actly how long the address may be. It may be so long that the pamphlet will amount to twenty-eight pages, or thirty. two pages. Mr. MOORE. You do not even say "printed page." W Mr. CAMERON. I will accept that amendment, so that the resolution may read "each printed page." Mr. MOORE. A word in regard to t,he official proof-reader. When did he commence working for us? Mr. CAMERON. It was the middle of January-I think about nine or ten days after the Convention had re-convened. The debates came to us in very bad shape. The printing committee were unwilling to engage him, and did so at last only at the earnest solicitation of many gentlemen in this body. Mr. MOORE. How long will he be continued? Mr. CAMERON. He must be continued until the printing is completed. Estimating that not less than thirty-two pages will be printed per day, I conceive that the printing will be through in about six weeks from the present time. I will say for this gentleman, that of all those connected with the printing and the revision of our debates (I do not re fer to the official reporters), I conceive him entitled to the greatest credit for he has been at his post day and night, and discharged his duties faithfully and intel ligently. Mr. MOORE. I am not complaining at all. What has he been allowed per day? Ai Mr. CAMERON. No allowance has been voted to him, thus far. The committee thought it better for the Convention to pass upon that. He claims that he ought to receive, in consideration of the fact that he has worked by night as Cwell as by day, ten dollars per day, but we thought that too much, and recom-. mended six dollars to be paid by the Convention. Mr. MOORE. That is satisfactory, so far as I am concerned. Mr. BROMWELL. The resolution says "the same compensation, not so much per day. That would take his pay back to the beginning of the session. Mr. CAMERON. I have no objection to paying per diem, or six dollars per day, although I do not think the language will bear the construction put upon it by the gentleman from Coles. Mr. BROMWELL. Would not the T proof-reader's bill be a proper expense for the printer or contractor for the printing? ~:- ~ Mr. CAMERON. It does not become me to answer that question-it is for the. Convention to determine that. I lay the facts, plain and simple, before the Convent ion, and ask consideration and action thereon. out an index, and the duty of making it belongs to the Secretary of the Conven tion. Be y reference to former conventions and Legislatures, I find the lowest price paid to a Secretary is two hundred dol lars-by the Constitutional Convention of 1862. Subsequent Legi slatur es, it is un derstood, have allowed a large amount. We believe two hundred dolllars will be sufficient, and, inasmuch as the Journal has been in the hands of the Secretary, and under his charge, consider i., proper to have the work done by that official. The last resolution is that the person in official charge of the revision and proof reading of the debates, receive for his services the same compensation allowed officers of the Convention. It is provided that this officilal reviser and proof reader, who was employed by the Printing Com mittee, at the request of many gentlemen on both sides of the Convention, and who has attended faithfully, shall receive the compensation named, though it was strict ly the duty of the printer to have made this provision himself. It was found, after long and patient endeavor to obtain accuracy in the printing of the reports and debates, that the remarks of gentlemen came out, from day to day, so mutilated as to be scarcely re cognizable. [Laughter.] It was found necessary, therefore, to select some one competent to take the matter in charge. The Convention had given the committee full power to make arrangements, and it was thought unecessary at the time to notify the Convention, but now, at the proper seas-on, it is reported to the Convention, and concurrence asked therein. We have power, as a committee, to deal with the matter and order payment, but prefer to bring it before this body that all the facts may be known. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore (Mr. Hayes in the chair). The question is upon the adoption of the resolution. Mr. BROHWELL. Mr. President: I understood the resolution to provide that the Secretary of State shall distribute the copies in foreign languages to each member equally. If that course of distribution is pursued those copies will be wasted, for many of the districts have no such population to be supplied, while other districts have a large one, either French or German. The Secretary of State ought to be left to distribute as may be required. Mr. C)AMERON. Mr. President: I suppose it will be competent and the duty of any member to indicate to the Secretary what number of foreign copies he requires in his district. Any gentleman needing copies in foreign languages should notify the Secretary. Mr. MOeORE. Mr. President: I would like to know what is meant by the words "three dollars per page for translating?" Mr. CAMERON. Mr. President. I will state that the committee have seen the record of the cost of previous translations, which has been about ten dollars per patge. The Printing Committee thought it e~xtravagant, 2nd through correspondence with different competent translators, have learned that a translation can be made for about, three dollars per page. It being calculated that the Constitution and address will mlake about twenty-four pages of printed matter, the cost of translation into each language will consequently amount to about seventy. two dollars. ABSENT, OR NOT VOTING. Allen of Crfd. Dement, Rice, Atkins, Forman, Robinson, Bowman, Hankins, Scholfield, Brown, Hanna, Underwood, Cody, King, Wheaton, Coolbaugh, Peirce., Mr. President-20. t Craig, Poage, So the amendment offered by Mr. Cross, to strike out the word "thirty" before the word "thousand," and insert "fifty," was not agreed to. Mr. CUMMINGS. Mr. President: I move the previous question on the adop, lion of the resolution. The motion for the previous question was agreed to, and the main question or. dered. Mr. BUXTON. I call for a division of the question. i wish the resolutions voted upon separately. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore (Mr. Hayes in the chair). The question will be upon the adoption of the first resolu. tion. The Secretary read the first resolution, as follows: Resolved, That the Secretary of State be directed to have prepared forthwith a correct and careful translation of the Address and Constitution into the German, Scandinavian and French languages, at a cost not to exceed three dollars per page. The first resolution was agreed to. The Secretary read the second resolu tion, as follows: Resolved, That the Secretary of State be directed to have printed forthwith, in pamphlet form, 30,000 copies of the Address and Constitution in English, 15,000 copies of the same in German, 5,005 copies of the same in the Scandinavian, and 5,000 copies of the same in the French language, the paper for the same to be furnished by, the State, and the documents to be forwarded by expr;,ss, ia MAY 12, 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 184'r Mr. CROSS. Mr. President: I move to strike out thirty and insert fifty as the number of thousands of the pamphlets of the Constitution to be printed. Mr. SPRINGER. Mr.- President: I move to amend the amendment, by strikiiig out "fifty" and inserting "ten." As this Constitution is to be published in every weekly newspaper in the State, and the people receive and read those papers, I do not see the necessity of so large a number of pamphlets. They will only be an annoyance without profit. The amendment offered by Mr. Springer was not agreed to. The question being on the amendment offered by Mr. Cross, the yeas and nays were ordered, and, being taken, resultedyeas 10, uays 53-as follows: YEA.S. Wells, Whiting, 10. i Wright-. Church, Haves, Cross, Pillsbury, flaines Of Llk, Wall, Haines of Co'k, Abbott, Fuller, Allen of Alex., Gamble, Anderson, Goodell, Anthony, Goodhue, Archer, I-lart, Bayne, I-larwood, Benjamin Hay, Bromwell, Hildrup, Browning, McCoy, Bryan, McDowell, Buxton, Medill, Cameron, Merriam., Cary, Moore, Cummings, Neece, Eldredge, Parker, Ellis, Parks, English, Perley, Fox, Ross, Sedwick, I Sharp, Sherrill, Snyder, Skinner, Springer, Sutherla,nd, Tincher, Truesdale, Tubbs, Turner' Vandeventer, Wazner, wart, Washburn, Wendling, Wilson-53. 1S4 COSIUI A ONETO RDY are acting under the previous question, and the amendment can only be entertained by unanimous consent. I do not object from any feeling toward the gentleman from Madison [Mr. Springer], however, but on general principles. Mr. CODY. Mr. President: Itrust the unanimous consent of the Convention will be had to placing in one of those resolutions an amendment that will provide for furnishing the family of each of our deceased members with copies of these reports. We have set apart a memorial page in the book, and it seems to me that this should be done. The Secretary read the fourth resolutioon, I eported by the Committee on Printing and Binding, as follows: Resolved, That the Secretary of State be directed to forward, at public expense, by express, to each member of this Convention, thirty copies of the Convention Globe, and twenty copies of the journal of proceedings; that one copy of said debates and journal be furnished to the Governor, Lieutenant Governor, Secretary of State, Auditor, Treasurer, Attorney General and Superintendent of Public Instructlon; that one copy of said debates and journal be supplied to each supreme court library, and one copy to each assistant secretary and official reporter, each judge of the supreme court, and assistant reporter of this Convention. Mr. KING. Mr. President: That res olution cuts out the reporters of the press, who have been with us all the time. Mr. SPRINGER. Mr. President: I see that my amendment has not been read. Districts sixteen and forty would be en titled to copies. The PRESIDENT, pro tempoie (Mr. Hayes in the chair). It is understood that the amendment is to be inserted, and the Clerk is instructed accordingly. The question is on the adoption of the resolu tion. The fourth resolution was agreed to. [The resolution as agreed to is as fol lows:] Resolved, That the Secretary of State be directed to forward, at public expense, by express, to each member of this Convention, thirty copies of the Convention Globe, and twenty copies of the journal of proceedings; that five copies of the debates and journal be furnished the Secretary of this Convention; that one copy of said debates and journal be furnished to the Governor, Lieutenant-Gov ernor, Secretary of State, Auditor, Treasurer, Atto rney-General and Superintendent of Pub lic Instruction; that one copy of said debates and journal be supplied to each supreme court library, and one copy to each assistant secretary and official reporter and assistant reporter of this Convention, each judge of the supreme court, and one copy to each State library, and one copy to the family of each of the deceased members, and sixty addi tional copies to the delegates representing the districts from which the Hon. H. W. Bil lings and Hon. Chas. Emmerson were elected, thirty copies to each. The PRESIDENT pro tempore (Mr. Hayes in the chair). The question is on the adoption of the fifth resolution. The Secretary read the fifth resolution, as follows: MResolved, That the Secretary of this Con vention be and he is hereby authorized to prepare an index to the Journal of Proceed ings of this Convention, at a cost not exceed ieg two hundred dollars. The fifth resolution was agreed to. The PRESIDENT pro tempore (Mr. Hayes in the chair). The question is on the adoption of the sixth resolution. The Secretary read the sixth resolution, as follows: Resolved, That the official charged with the revision and proof-reading of the debates receive, in compensation for his services, the EnElish, A lex,Fox, Fuller, Goodell, Goodhue, Haines of Co'k Harwood, Hay es, ttildrup, MeCov, Medill, Merriam, Moore , Neece, Perley, Peirce, Pillsbury, NWAYS. Parker, Parks, Ross, Sedgwick, same compensation allowed to the officers of this Convention. Mr. BUXTON. Mr. President: When we voted seventy-five cents per thousand eros, was it not understood that was to cover the expense of proofreading? I move to lay the resolution on the table. Mr. HAY. I would say that this Convention, though economical, should not be so' unjust as to leave the expense of this proof-reader on the gentlemen of the committee who employed him. The PRESIDENT pro tempore (Mr. Hayes in the chair). The question is on the motion of the gentleman from Clin ton [Mr. Buxton]. The,yeas and nays were ordered. The Secretary proceeded to call the roll. Mr. CAGOODHUE (when his name was called) said: I desire to ask one question before my vote is taken. ["Object!" "object!"] I vote "Aye," then. Mr. GOODHUE (before the result was announced) said: I desire to ask if it is in order for me to ask a question of the chairman of the committee. ["Object!" "object!"] The PRESIDENT. It is not in order. The result was then announced-yeas 17, nays 46-as follows: AB SENT, a OR NOT VOTING. Allen of Cr'fd,,Gamble, Rice, Bowman, Haines of Lake,Scholfield, Brown, Hankins, Truesdale, Cary, Hanna, Underwood, Cody, Kin-, Wall, Coolbaugh, McDowell,Mr. President-20. Forman, Poage, So the secon d res olution wa s a gre ed to. The Secretary read the third resolution as follows: Resolved, That th e Se cretar y of State be instructed to furnish to each weekly newsp aper in the State, at the earliest practicable mo. menrt, t wo print ed copies of the revised Constitution and address, for publication, in accordance with resolutions previously passed by this Convention. The third resolution was agreed to. The Secretary read the fourth resolution, as follows: Resolved, That the Secretary of'State be directed to forward, at public expense, by express, to each member of this Convention, thirty copies of the Convention Globe, and twenty copies of the journal of proceedings; that one copy of said debates and journal be forwarded to the Governor, Lieutenant Gov. ernor, Secretary of State, Auditor, Treasurer, Attorney General and Superintendent of Public I-nstruction; that one copy of said debates and journal be supplied to each supreme court library, and one copy to each assistant secretary and official reporter and assistant reporter of this Convention. Mr. TURNER. I wish, by unanimous consent, to offer an amendment, that each member of the supreme court have a copy. Mr. SPRINGER. I wish merely to make a suggestion. My district is not fully represented, by reason of the death of Judge Billings. I believe that one other'.district is in the same position. The number that would be due to the late Judge Billings should be sent to our county for distribution there. Mr. TURNER. Mr. President: It is understood that the families of the deceased members will have the number allotted each member sent to them when ever they so desire. .Mr. SPRINGER. Mr. President: The family of each deceased member should receive a copy. I move an amendment to that effect. Mr. TINCHER. Mr. President: I hope the amendment will extend to our door keepers and other officers. Mr. CUMMINGS.;Mr. resident: We English, Robin son, Fox, Sharp, Haines of Cook,Sherrill, Hay, Skinner, Hayes, Springer, Hildrup, Sutherland, King, Truesdale, Mchoy, Turner, McDowell, Vandeventer, Medill, Wait, Merriam, Wells' Moore, Wendling, Neece, Whiting, Parks, Wilson, Peirce, Wright-46. So the motion of Mr. Buxton, to lay on the table the sixth resolution reported by the Committee on Printing and Binding, was not agreed to. The PRESIDENT, pr,o tempore (Mr. Hayes in the chair). The question is upon the adoption of the resolution. The sixth resolution was agreed to. MUNICIPAL AND OTHER SUBSCRIPTIONS. Mr. ALLEN, of Alexander. Mr. President: This morning, prior to adjournment, I asked leave to introduce for adoption an additional section, which motion was not, at that time, in order. Since then I have modified the section at the instance of some gentlemen who supposed it liable to misconstruction. I ask that it may be read and adopted; and upon its adoption I move the previous question. Mr. CHURCH. l,r. President: I would ask if that be in cider. CONSTITUTIO.'NAL CONVENTION 1848 Tiiup,.SDAY, equal numbers, at the public expense, to the members of this Convention. The yeas and nays were ordered, and being taken, resulted-yeas, 50, iaays, 13 -as follows: TEAS. Bayne, Browning, Cross, Hart, Hay, Spring er, Tincher, Va-ndeventer, Wagner-13. ylm,&. Hart, Parker, Perley, Pillsbury, Ross, Sedgwick, Bayne, Buxton, I Cross, Fuller, Goodell, Goodhue, Snyder, Tincher, Tubbs, Wagner, Washburn-17. NAY$. Abbott, Allen, ofalex. Anderson, Archer, Atkins, Benjamin, Bromwell, Browning, Bryan, Cameron, Church, Cody, Craig, Cummings, Deme-nt, Eldredge, ABSENT, OR NOT VOTING. Allen of Crfd., Forinan, Rice, Anthony, Gamble, Scholfield, Bowman, Haines ofLake,Underwood, Brown, lankins, Wall, Cary, lanna, Wheaton, Coolbaugh, larwood, Mr. President-20. Ellis, Poage, MA 12 180vEAE N RCEIG.14 The Secretery proceeded to call the roll. The result was then announced-yeas 37, nays 31 —as follows: Committee on Revision and Adjustment, to whom was referred the schedule and several resolutions of instruction in relation to the separate submission of various sections adopted by the Convention, having had the same under consideration, have directed me to report said sections and ask that they be enrolled as sections separately submitted. The committee having also revised and adjusted the various sections of the schedule, have directed me to report the same to the Convention, and ask the enrollment thereof as the schedule to the new Constitution of the State of Illinois. I will read: YEAS. Haines of Cook,Peirce, Hart, Pillsbury, Harwood, Sedgwick, Hayes, S herrill, Hildrup, Springer McCoy, Sutherland, Medill, Tincher, Merriam, Tubbs, Moore, Turner, Parker, Wagner, Parks, Wait Perley, Whiting-37. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore (Mr. Hayes in the chair). The section will be read, in order that the Convention may know what it is. The Secretary will read. The Secretary read the additional sec tion offered bv Mr. Allen, of Alexander, as follows: Nothing in this Constitution shall be so construed as to prevent the General Assembly from legalizing subscriptions to stock in rail road companies by counties or other municipal cor pora tions, mad e before January 1st, 1870, in excess of the provisions of existing laws, by a vote of a majority of the people, when rights have accrued an d mon ey has been expende on the f aith of such subscriptions. Mr. CHURCH. Mr. President Mr. ALLEN, of Alexander. I have the floor, Mr. President. Mr. CHURCH. Mr. President: I ob ject. I rise to a question of order. The question is this. The order existing at present is not such as to allow proposi tions to amend the Constitution. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore (Mr. Hayes in the chair). There is no other order pending at present, the Convention having gone through with the regular order. Therefore the Chair considers the proposition in order. Mlr. HAINES, of Cook. Mr. President: I would like to know where the section will go if adopted The PRESIDENT, pro tempore (Mr. Hayes in the chair). That will be as the Convention may direct. Mr. ALLEN, of A' exander. Mr. Pres ident: I wish to call for the previous question, upon the adoption of the sec tion. Mr. CHURCH. Mr. President: I call for the yeas and nays. The PRSIDEENT, pro tempore (Mr. Hayes in the chair). Upon ordering the previous question? Mr. CH URCH. Yes sir; for the reason Mr. ROSS. I object to debate. Mr. CHURCH. The gentleman from Fulton [Mr. Ross] will not find me engaged in debate. The PRESIDENT, pro tempore (Mr. Hayes in the chair). It is in order for the gentleman to speak to the propriety of ordering the main question, but only a word or two can be admitted under the rule. Mr. CHURCH. Mr. President: I undertand that such is the rule. The reason I obj ect to ordering the previous question at this time is, in order that we may have an opportunity to correct the enormities of the proposition, before being called upon to vote. Mr. ALLEN, of Alexander. I call the gentleman to order. He has no right to so characterize the issue before this body. The motion for the previous question was agreed to, and the main question ordered. Mr. BUXTON. Mr. Presidents i move to lay the proposition on the table. The yeas and nays were ordered. The Secretary read the additional section offered by Mr Allen, of Alexander, as follows: Nothing in this Constitution shall be so construed as to prevent the General Akssembly frton legalizing subscriptions to stock in railroad companies by counties or other municipal corporations made before January first, 1870, in excess of the provisions of existing laws, by a majority vote of the people, when rights have accrued and money has been expended on the faith of such subscription.; 463 "~ SECTIONS SEPARATELY SUBMITTED. ILLINOIS CENTRAL RAILROAD. No contract, obligation or liability what ever of the Illinois Central railroad com pany to pay any money into the State treasu ry, nor any lien of the State upon, or right to tax property of said company, in accordance with the provisions of the charter of said com pany, approved February 10, 1851, shall ever be released, suspended, modified, altered, re mitted, or in any way or manner diminished or impaired by legislative or other authority; and all moneys derived from said company, after the payment of the State debt, shall be appropriated and set apart for the payment of the ordinary expenses of the State government, and for no other purpose whatever. MINORITY REPI.ESIMNTAqTIOOl. SEc. 21. The house of representatives shall consist of three times the number of the members of the senate, and the term of office Tantean hiesti esshall be two years. Three representatives shall be elected in each senatorial district, at the gen er al electi on in the year A. D. 1872, and every two years thereafter. In all elections of representatives aforesaid, each qualified voter may cast as many votes for one candi date as there are representatives to be elected, or may distribute the same, or equal parts thereof, among the candidates, as he shall see fit; and the candidates highest in votes shall be declared elected. MUNICIPAL SUBSCRIPTIONS TO RAILROAD AND PRIVATE CORPORATIONS. SEC. 26. No county, city, town, township, or other municipality, shall ever become subscriber to the capital stock of any railroad or private corporation, or make donation to, or loan its credit in aid of, such corporation: Provided, however, that the adoption of this article shall not be construed as affecting the right of any such municipality to make such subscriptions where the same have been authorized, under existing laws, by a vote of the people of such municipalities prior to such adoption. The Section in relation to the canal is as follows: The Illinois and Michigan Canal shall never be sold or leased until the specific proposition for the sale or lease thereof shall first have been submitted to a vote of the people of the State, at a general election, and have. been approved by a majority of all the votes polled at such election. The General Assembly shall never loan the credit of the State or make appropriations from the treasury thereof, in aid of railroads or canals: Provided, that any surplus earnings of any canal may be appropriated for its enlargement or extension. I desire now to state, for the information of the Convention, that we have taken these sections from the schedule (adding the one relating to the canal), put them together, called them "sections separately submitted, and propose they shall be enrolled immediately after the article on fixture amendments, and prior to the schedule, if the Convention shall so order. As the schedule is read, the Convention will see that we have ill that manner shortened it materiallyr. The request of the committee is, that these sections be enrolled as sections separately submitted. Allen, of Alex. English, Ross, Anderson, Forman, Sharp Archer, Fox, Snyder, Bayne, Haines of LakeSkinner, Bromwell, Hankins, Vandeventer, Browning, Hay, Wall, Bryan, King, Washburn, Cody, McDowell, Wendling, Craig, Neece, Wilson Cumtmings, Robinson, Wright —31. Dement, So the motion of Mr. BaLxton to lay on the table the additional section offered by Mr. Allen, of Alexander, was agreed to. INDEBTEDNESS OF CITY OF MATTOON. Mr. BROMWELL. Mr. President: I desire to offer a proposition which was objected to yesterday, it not being then in order without a suspension of the rules. The Secre tar y re ad th e proposi tion of - fered by Mr. Bromwell, as follows: Nothing contained in this Constitution shall be construed to prevent the General Assembly from authorizing the city of Mattoon to create any indebtedness for the purpose of securing or constructing machine shops in said city, on which the people of said city may have voted or given their assent prior to May 1st, A. D. 1870 Mr. BRO}IWELL. Mr. President: I will state one fact in connection with this, so that the Convention may understand the proposition. The citizens of Mattoon, many of them, have bound themselves in in bonds to secure the authorization and payment of the city bonds for this purpose, and they have made the arrangement complete with the railroad company, by which the machine shops are to be located there, fully expecting that the Legislature would authorize this proceedinag. It has all been done in good faith. The people are noted for their enterprise and public spirit, and have involved themselves in this outlay, and as I understand, if their acts should not be authorized, it will be the means of subjecting a large number of citizens to the very heavy and unjust expense, as they have gone surety for the city. These are the facts in the case. I now ask the Convention that this provision be placed in the schedule among the other matters of the same sort, if it be adopted. I hope that it will be adopted by the Convention. Mr. ATKINS. Mr. President: I move to lay the proposition upon the table. The motion was agreed to. IffAY 12) 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1849 Abbott, Anthony, Atkins, Benjamin, Buxton, Cameron, Cary, Church, EldredZe, Ellis, Fuller, Goodell, Goodhue, NA.YS. .KBSENT OR NOT Allen of Crfd. Gamble, Bowman, Hanna, 'Brown' Poage, cCoolba.gh, Rice, 'ross, Seliolfield, VOTING. Truesdale, Underwood, Wells, Wheaton, Mr. President-15. REVIISION AND ADJUSTMENT. Mr. CODY. Mr. President.- The 1850 ()osTITITTIoXAL TBURDAY, seventy, and there shall be separately submitted at the same time, for adoption or rejection, Sections nine, ten, eleven, twelve, thirteen, fourteen and fifteen, relating to railroads in the article entitled corporations; The article entitled counties; The article entitled warehouses t The question of requiring a three-fifths vote to remove a county seat; The section in relation to the Illinois Central railroad; The section in relation to minority representation; The section in relation to municipal subscriptions to railroads or private corporations, and The section relating to the canal. Every person entitled to vote under the provisions of this Constitution, as defined in the article in relation to'"suffrage," shall be entitled to vote for the adoption or rejection of this Constitution, and for or against the articles, sections and questions aforesaid, separately submitted; and the said qualified electors shall vote at the usual places of voting, unless othwise provided; and the said elections shall be conducted and returns thereof mnade according to the laws now in force regulating general elections: Provided, howvever, tha t the polls sh all be kept open fbr the reception of ballots until sunset of said day of election. SrC. 9. The Secreta ry of State shall, at l east twenty day s before said election, caus e to be delivered to the county clerks of each county, blank poll-books, tally-lists, and forms of return, and twice the number of properly prepared printed ballots for the said election that there are voters in such county, the expense whereof shall be audited and paid as other public printing ordered by the Secretary of State, is, by law, required to be audited and paid; and the several county clerks shall, at least five days before said election, cause to be distributed to the board of election, in each election district, in their respective counties, said blank poll-books, tally-lists, and forms of return, and tickets. SEC. 10. at the said election the ballots shall be in the following form: the two vie ws of the question that the C on vention have decided shall be voted upon directly by the people are not, by that mode of balloting, voted upon. I therefore desire that an amendment be made to that section of the report, so that it shall be in accordance with the direct action of the Convention upon the question, and that there be upon this ticket, "For three-fifths vote to remove county seats," and "Against three-fifths vote to remove county seats." I therefore move that the rule be sus. pended, and there be inserted after the words "For three-fifths vote to remove county seats," the words " Against threefifths vote to remove county seats." Mr. ENGLISH. Mr. President: Would an amendment be in order? The PRESIDENT. No amendment can be entertained, goiig to substance, as this does, without a suspension of the rules. Mr. CODY. Would a remark be in order? The PRESIDENT. The motion is not debatable, but the chairman of the committee is entitled to make an explanation. Mr. CODY. The committee found the difficulty the gentleman from Kaiie [MNr. Wheaton] alludes to. Section twentyninie provides that when this Constitution is submitted, the following proposition shall be submitted to be voted upon separately: " For a three-fifths vote -to remove a county seat." "Against a three fifths vote to remove a county seat." There were but few members of the committee present this forenoon when we arranged this matter, and there was a difference of opinion as to what should be done, and an understanding that I should make a statement of the difficulty to the Convention. A portion of the committee thought that submitting the proposition as provided by this ticket would be equivalent to placing it,in the Constitution at once, but that a submission in the manner required by the Convention in section twenty-nine would be a fair mode of submission, as every man feeling interest enough to vote upon the question would have to erase one line or the other; otherwise the voters caring nothing about this would vote for the three-fifths vote which is equivalent to putting it in the Constitution at once. In order to do justice to the localities affected by this question, this ticket shcul d be in accordance with section twenltymline, and the words ~"'Against three fifths vote to remove county seats," should be places on the ticket, so0 that the voter can erase one or the other, as he cdesires. Mr. HAYES. Mr. President: As a member of the Committee on Revision, i:desire to meake an explanation of the reason why onle or two members of the committee objected to any change being made of the character suggested by the -gentlemlan. One or two of the mlemblers of the committee thought it mtaki[g a very remarkable distinction in the mode of submission of the different propositions, to provide that the vote for and against one proposition, should both appear on the same ticket, while in regard to all other propositions, the ticket Should contain only the vote for. Those gentlemen admitted that there was some doubt what the intenti~on of the Convert Mr. HAINES, of Cook. Mr. President: Perhaps members would like to know how they are to be submitted. The PRESIDENT. When the chairman of the committee [Mr. Cody] has completed reading his report, it will be competent for any member to ask for a separate vote upon any distinct proposition of enrollm ent. Mr. ROSS. Mr. President: I believe I would like to take the sense of the Con vention in regardtosection twenty-seven. I do not see why one part of the State should meddle with any other in respect to its internal and domestic affairs. Mr. CODY. Mr. President: I will now commence the reading of the schedule. SCHEDULE. That no inconvenience may arise from the alterations and amendments made in the Constitution of this State, and to carry the same into complete effect, it is hereby ordained and declared SECTION 1. That all laws in force at the adoption of this Constitution, not inconsistent therewith, and all rights, actions, prosecutions, claims and contracts of this State, individuals or bodies corporate, shall continue to be as valid as if this Constitution had not been adopted. SEC. 2. That a ll fines, taxes, pen altie s and fortfeitures due and ow ing t o the State of Ilinois under the present Constitution and laws, shall inure to t he us eo l of the people of the State of Illinois under this Constitu tion. SEC. 3. Recognizances, bonds, obligations, and all other ic struments entered into or executed before the adoption of this Constitution, to the people of the State of Illinois, to any State or county officer or public body, shall remain binding and valid, and rights and liabilities upon the same shall continue, and all crimes and misdemeanors shall be tried and punished as though no change had been made in the Constitution of this State. thc. 4. Con nty courts for the transaction of coun ty business, in counties not having adopted township organization, shall continue in existence and exercise their present jurisdiction until the board of county commissioners, provided in this Constitution, is organized in pursuance of an act of the General Assembly; and the county courts in all other counties shall have the same power and jurisdiction they now possess, until otherwise provided by general law. SEC. 5. All existing courts which are not in this Constitution specifically enumerated, shall continue in existence and exercise their present jurisdiction until o,therwise provided by law. SEc. 6. All persons now filling any office or appointment shall continue in the exercise of the duties thereof, according to their respective commissions or appointments, unless by this Constitution it is otherwise directed. SEC. 7. On the day this Constitution is submitted to the people for ratification, an election shall be held for judges of the supreme court in the second, third, sixth and seventh judicial districts designated in this Constitution, and for the election of three judges of the circuit court in the county of Cook, as provided for in the article of this Constitution relating to the judi ciary, at which election every person en titled to vote according to the terms of this Constitution, shall be allowed to vote, and the election shall be otherwise conducted, returns made and certificates issued, in accord ance with existing laws: Provided, that at said election in the county of Cook, no elect or shall vote for more than two candi dates for circuit judge. If, upon canvassing the votes for and against the adoption of this Constitution, it shall appear that there has been polled a greater number of votes against than for it, then no certificates of election shall be issued for any of said supreme or circuit judges. SEC. 8. This Constitution shall be subemit ted to the people of the State of Illinois, for adoption. or rejection, at an election to be held on the first Saturday in July, in the year of our Lord one thousand iSht hundred and NEW CONSTITUTION TICKET. For all the propositions on this ticket which are not canceled with ink or pencil; an against all propositions which are so canceled. For the new Constitution. For the sections relating to railroads in the article entitled corporations. For the article entitled counties. For the article entitled warehouses. For three-fifths vote to remove county seats. For the section relating to the Illinois Central railroad tax. For the section relating to minority representation. For the section relating to municipal subscription s to railroads or private corporations. For the section relating to the canal. Eac-: of said tickets shall be counted as a vote cast for each proposition thereon not canceled with ink or pencil, and against each proposition so canceled, and returns thereof shall be made accordingly by the judges of the election. Mr. WHEATON. Mr. President: According to the report of the Committee on Revision on the mode of balloting, it is provided that voters shall vote only for three-fifths to remove county seats. Section twenty-nine of this schedule, as adopted by this Convention, requires that the voters shall vote upon two propositionns upon that question-for a three fifths vote and against a three-fifths vote. But in the manner in which the ticket is got up, it is substantially voting on only one side of the question, because it provides that only the opposite view shall be expressed by cancellation of that portion of the ticket that the voter does not desire to have adopted, so that if through mistake or otherwise the voter does not erase, every single vote is for the proposition not canceled upon the ticket, and t c u t b t d q t c v c t r t i I CONSTITUTIOXAL CONVENTION T-uur.SDAY, 1850 MAY 1, 1870' DEBATES AND RO()EEDINGS. 1851 ted, shall be made by the several county clerks, as is now provided by law, to the Secretary of State, within twenty days after the election; and the returns of the said votes,, shall, within five days thereafter, be examined and canvassed by the Auditor, Treasurer and Secretary of State or any two of them, in the presence of the Governor, and proclamation shall be made by the Governor, forthwith, of the result of the canvass. I desire to ask the Convention to listen attentively to the reading of section twelve, without looking at copies particularly, as the committee have re-arranged the language so as to include all contained in the last part of sections that were to be separately submitted in this schedule. t,t c. 12. If it shall appear that a majority of the votes polled are for the new Constituetion, then so much of this Constitution as was not separately submitted to be voted on by articles and sections shall be the supreme law of the State of Illinois, on and after Monday, the eighth day of August, A. D. 1870; but if it shall appear that a majority of the votes polled were against the new Constitution, then so much thereof as was not separately submitted to be voted on by articles and sections, shall be null and void. If it shall appear that a majority of the votes polled are for the section relating to railroads, in the article entitled "corporations," sections nine, ten, elevun, twelve, thirteen, fourteen and fifteen, relating to r~ailroads in said article, ,shall be a part of the Constitution of this State; but if a majority of said votes are against said sections, they shall be null and void. If a major'ity of the votes T)olled are for the article entitled counties, such article shall be a part of the Constitution of this State, and shall be substituted for article eight in the present Constitution entitled counties; but if a majority of said votes are against such article, the same shall be null and void. If a majority of the votes polled are for the article entitled "warehouses,, such article shall be a part of the Constitution of this State; but if a majority of said votes are against said article, the same shall be null and void. If a majority of the votes are for either of said sections, separately submitted, relating respectively to the Illinois Central railroad, minority representation, municipal subscriptions' to railroads or private corporations, and the canal, then such of said sections as shall receive such majority shall'form a part of the -Constitution of this State: but each of said sections, so separately submitted, against which respectively there shall be a majority of the votes polled, shall be null and void: Provided, That the section relating to minority representation shall not be declared adopted unless the portion of the Constitution not separately submitted to be voted on by articles and sections shall be adopted; and in case said minority representation shall become a portion of this Constitution, it shall now byondthe imit of te siple or-be substituted for sections seven and eight of udrtegetsa fteSae n 0 rection of an error.. ~~the legislative article.coisteefduycriidshlbefrh Mr. ROS. Mr.Presidnt: I ise to If a majority of the votes cast at such elec-wihtasitdbthSertr'f'Saet of oder.The hairsaidthattion shall be for' a three-fifths vote to remove ec onycekb itiuin a question ~~~~~~a county seat, then the words "a majority" Sc.1.Tedsrcssalbreual the gntlean cold poceedby uani-shall he stricken out of section four of thenubrdbthSertr ofSaecon mousconsnt. haiconsnt ws gien,article on counties, and the words "three- mnigwt lxne onya o1 n the entlman r~ceded,and hat on-fifths" shall be inserted in lieu thereof, andprceigtecnotwrlthohth sent cnnot ow bewithdawn.'the following words shall be added to said Saeadtriaigwt h onyo section, to wit: "But when an attempt isCok;btnconysalbnubrda The PRSIDENT But he genlemanmade to remove a county seat to a point nearer mr hnoedsrc, xettecut } fromAdam [MrSkiner] tate iha heto the centre of the county, then a majority Co hc hl osiuetredsrcs desied o cll he ttenionof he on-vote only shall be necessary." If the fore-.ec ebaigtetrioycnandi Venton o amisake andthequetio asgoing proposition shall not receive a majori- tenweitn ersnaiedsrcso to wethr tereis misakeor ot,be-ty of the votes, as aforesaid, then the samesadcut.AdothTusaafeth shall have no effect whatevei.fitModyiNoebr,. D 80h mg etled dscusin a t th popre- Mr. ROSS. Do you mean to say thatmebroftefrthseorersnaie ty f iserin th wod "axs,"is otif this is voted down, the old section udrti osiuinsalb lce c The onset ofthe onvetionwasin respect to county seats shall be re- nucda frsi.adsalhl hi for on purpoe,andthatiataed? ofie o w er,an ni hi ucs given only ~~~~Mr. CODY. Mr, President:'That issossalbelcean uaied limited one. Whenthejuestinoen the wav itris now. It will be done Sc,1.Tesnt,a t is eso n if the Convention so determine. be in order. ~~~~Mr. HAINES, of Lake. Mr. President: gnrleeto edo h is usa f The article on counties was to be sub-trtefrtMna f oebr.D 80 Mr. CODY.- ~~~~mitted separately, and if voted down, tosntr hl eeetdi it't of ~~~~this was to be a separate proposition. fitModyoJaur,AD,17,owhr cas, ndofth vte fo te dotin r e- Mr. MOORE. Mr. President: Itteesalb aac,adinth ean thearicls nd ecion rspet~elysumit -seems to me from the reading of the arti- m itit n eao hl eeetd tion was in the first instance, but inasmuch as the Convention had passed upon the section in a form requiring a vote in one way only —for the county-seat proposition-they did not feel.at liberty to assent to the the insertion of a negative form of that proposition. The question being on the motion of Mr. Wheaton, that the rules be suspended, it was not agreed to. Mr. SKINNER. Mr. President: Would it be iL order to recur to section two, to correct a mistake made as the reading passed? The PRESIDENT. The gentleman can recur to that section by unanimous consent, the Chair has n o doub t, me rely to correct a mistake. Mr. SKINNER. Mr. President: It is this. Without considering the effect, some member suggested, while the chairman was reading section two, that the word "taxes" be added after the word "fines." Mr. CODY. Mr. President: If the gentleman. will allow me, probably I can explain this to his satisfaction. The word "taxes" was inserted by a vote of the Convention, and the copy I have here happens to be one in which the correction has not been made, and therefore does not contain the word "taxes." The Convention placed the word in the section by vote, yesterday, as appears by the official copy sent the committee. ifr. SKINNER. Mr. President: I de sire to call the attention of the Convention to the effect of the word'" taxes," in the section. Mr. ANTHONY. Mr. President: I rise to a question of order. I umderstand the ruling of the Chair to be that these questions of substance are not to be touched until we have got through. The section has -already been adopted by the Convention and ordered to be enrolled. The PRESIDENT. The gentleman from'Cook [Mr. Anthony] is quite correct, but the gentleman from Aaams [Mr. Skinner] stated that he desired to correct a mistake. Mr. SKINNER. Mr. President: The effect of inserting the word "'taxes" here is that -all municipal, town, and city taxes go to the State. The- PRESIDENT. The gentleman from Adams [Mr. Skinner] is proceeding now beyond the limits of the simple correction of an error.. ~ Mr. ROSS. Mfr. President: I rise to a question of order. The Chair said that the gentleman could proceed by unanimous consent. That. consent was given, the gentleman proceeded, and that consent cannot now be withdrawn.~ The PRESIDENT. But the gentleman from Adams [Mr. Skinner] stated that he desired to call the attention of the Convention to a mistake, and the question as to whether there is a mwistake or not, being settled, discussion as to the propriety of inserting the word "4taxes,"t is not in1 order. The -consent o-f the Convention was given only for one purpose, and that a limited one. When the question of enrol-ment shall come before the C:onvention, the remarks of the gentleman will be in order. Mr. CODY. SEC. 1l. The'returns of.the whole vote cast, and of the votes tbr the adoption or rejection of this Constitution, and for or against the articles and sections respectively submit-; Msr. CODY. No. This article provides expressly-it was so intended by the man who drew it that if this Constitution is voted down, it shall change the Constitution of 1848. Mr. DE,MENT. Mr. President: I think I can explain the fact at least, though I do not assume to be able to explain the intention of the gentleman who drew the proposition. The fact is. that if this section and article is Foted down, the section in relation to the removal of county seats in the article upon counties, will so modify the present Constitution upon tha t subject that the questions can be voted upon only once in ten years, and that persons voting upon this subject shall reside in the county at least six months prior to the election, and ninety days in the precinct. That would be the change. Three-fifths would not then be necessary. Mr. WAIT. Mr. President: This matter ought not to be discussed at the present time. If one side is going to be discussed, the other side ought to be also. The PRESIDENT. The point of or. der is well taken at the present stage. When the chairman shall have completed the-reading ot the report, the question of whether the committt c have transcended their authority. or not, will be in order. The gentleman will proceed. Mr. CODY. The article continues: SEC. 13. Immediately after the adoption of this Constitution, the Governor and Secretary of State shall proceed to ascertain and fix the apportionment of the State for members of the first house of representatives under this Constitution. The apportionment shall be based upon the federal census of the year A. D. 1870, of the State of Illinois, and shall be made strictly in accordance with the rules and principles announced in the article on the legislative department of this Constitution: Provided, that in case the federal census aforesaid cannot be ascertained prior to Friday, the 23d of September, A.D. 1870, then the said apportionment shall be based on the State census of the year A. D. 1865, in accordance with the rules and principles aforesaid. The Governor shall, on or before Wednesday the 28th of September, A. D. 1870, make official announcement of the said app )rtionment, under the great seal of the State; and 100 copies thereof, duly certified, shall be forthwith transmitted by the Secretary of State to each county clerk for distribution. SEC. 14. The districts shall be regularly numbered by the Secretary of State, commencing with Alexander county as No. 1, and proceedingthence northwardly through the State, and terminating with the county of Cook;* but no county shall be numbered as more than one district,. except the county of Cook, which shall constitute three districts, each embracing the territory contained in the now exsitinlg representative districts of said county. And on the Tuesday after the first Monday in November, A. D. 1870, the members of the first house of representatives under this Constitultion shall be elected according to the apportionment fixed and announeced as aforesaid, and shall hold their officess for two years, and until their successors shall be elected and qualified.. SEc. 15. The senate, at its first session under this Constitution, shall consist of fiftyy members, to be chosen as follows: At tha general election held on the first Tuesday after the first Monday of November, A. D. i870, two senators shall be elected in districts where the terms of senato~rs expire on the first Monday of January, A. D, 1871, or where there shall be a vacancy, and in the remaining districts one senator shall be elected. MAY 12, 1870, DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1851 cle that it is very defective. If the article in the Constitution upon counties is beaten, then the article upon counties in the Constitution of 1848 ought to be the law of the land, but it does not provide for that. Some other clause may do it. 1852 CONSTITUTIONAL COYETIO THUESDAY, -Mr. ROSS. Mr. President: I ask a vote upon that section, and I call for the yeas and nays. The yeas and nays were ordered. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the enrollment of the section. The Secretary will read the section. The Secretary read the section relating to municipal subscriptions to railroads and private corporations, as follows: Sxc. 26. No county, city, town, township, or other municipality, shall ever become subscriber to the capital stock of any railroad or private corporation, or make dopation to, or loan its credit in aid of, such corporation: Provided, however, That the adoptionof this article shall not be construed as affecting the right of any such municipality to make such s u bscriptions where the same have been authorized, under existing laws, by a vote of the people of such municipalities prior to such adoption. The Secretary proceeded to call the roll. The result was then announced-yeas, 50; nays, 18-as follows: Senators so elected shall hold their office two years. SEC. 16. The General Assembly, at its first session held after the adoption of this C(onstitution, shall proceed to apportion the State for members of the senate and house of representatives, in accordance with the provisions of the article on the legislative department. SEC. 17. When this Constitution shall be ratified by the people, the Governor shall forthwith, after having ascertained the fact, issue writs of election to the sheriffs of the several counties of this State, or in case of vacan cies, to th e coron ers, for the election of all the officers, th e time of whose election is fixed by this Constitution or scli hedule, and it s hall b e the duty of said sheriffs o r coroners t o give such notice of the time and place of s ai d el ection as is now prescribed by law. SEC. 18. All laws of the Stat e of Illinois, and all official writings, and the executive, legislative and judicial proceedings, shall be conducted, preserved and published in no other than the English language. SEc. 19. The General Assembly shall pass all laws necessary to carry into effect the provisions of this Constitution. SEc. 20. The circuit clerks of the different counties having a population over sixty thousand shall continue to be recorders (ex officio) for their respective counties, under this Constitution, and until the expiration of their, present terms. SEC. 21. The judges of all courts of record in Cook county shall, in lieu of any salary provided in this Constitution,receive the compensation now provided by law until the adjournment of the first session of the General Assembly after the adoption of this Constitution. SEC. 22. The present judge of the circuit court of Cook county shall continue to hold the circuit court of Lake county until otherwise provided by law. SEc. -23. When this Constitution shall be adopted and take effect as the supreme law of the State of Illinois. the two-mill tax provided to. be annually assessed and collected upon each one dollar's worth of taxable proporty, in addition to all other taxes, as set fo-tbt in article fifteen of the now existing Const tution, shall, cease to be assessed after the year 1870. - SECc. 24. Nothing contained in this Constitution shall be construed as to deprive the General Assembly of power to authorize the city of Quincy to create an indebtedness for railroad or municipal purposes for which the people of said city shall have voted, and to which they shall, by such' vote, have given their assent prior to the thirteenth day of December, 1869. SEC. 25. In case this Constitution and the articles and sections submitted separately be adopted, the existing Constitution shall cease in all its provisions; and in case this Constitution be adopted, and any one or more of the articles or sections submitted separately be defeated, the provisions of the existing Constitution, if any, on the same subject, shall remain in force. SEC. 26. The provisions of this Constitution required to be executed prior to the adoption or rejection thereof, shall take effect and be in force immnediately. Done in Convention at the capitol, in the city of Springfield, on the - day of May, in the year of our Lord one thousand eight hundred and seventy, and of the independence of the United States of America the ninety-fourth. In witness whereof, we have hereunto subscribed our namnes. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the enrollment of sections separately submitted and upon the schedule, and the Chair will put the question, if desired, upon each proposition in the order reported. The questio~n is upon the first section, relating to the Illinois CDentral railroad, and it will be ordered enrolled. The question is upon the second section, relating to minority representation, and it will be ordered enrolled. The question is upon the third section, relating to municipal subscriptions to railroads and private corporations. Mr. ANTHONY. Th e philosophy of the questi on i s this: this is an important precedent Mr. ROSS. Mr. Presid ent The PRESIDENT. WTill the gentleman from Cook [Mr. Anthony] yield to the gentleman from Fulton [Mr. Ross]? Mr. ROSS. Mr. President: The gentleman has no right to argue upon this question. Mr. ANTHONY. Mr. President: I was stating my point of ord er. My poin t of order-and I intend to st ate it clearly, so that th e Convention meay u nderstand it-is t hat dividing a section on the fina l enrollment is equivalent to striking out, and that if such a ruling is adhered to,we will be going in a circle all the time. I plead the statute of li mitations on the question. The philosophy of all parliamentary law is against it,. and if we do not set bounds to our work, we will never get through. In 1862 we examined this question, and on page 850 of that journal you will find Mr. WHEATON. Mr. President: I will inquire of the gentleman if it was not by express rule of the Convention The PRESIDENT. This is a question of order that has already been disposed of, but the Chair of course desires to reverse its ruling, if incorrect. Mr. ANTHONY. Mr. President: It is true that in 1862 there was a special rule upon the subject. But it is ne: less true that that rule was made in explanation of the parliamentary law. It was resolved in 1862, as follows: Resolved, That the several reports, from either standing or select committees, to alter or amend the Constitution, when concurred in by the Convention, shall be referred to the Committee on Revision and Adjustment, for revision and adjustment. Resolwed, That the Committee on Revision and Adjustment shall have power to revise and correct the language of'the reports, without clanging the sense, and to number and adjust the sections and articles. -Uesolved, That, when any of said reports shall have been revised, and adjusted, and engrossed. the same shall be printed, and reported to the Convention, and shall then be read over by sections, and no amendments shall be made, unless, in the opinion of a majority of the Convention, the sense and mean. lDg of the original reports have been changed, and after the said report of the committee shall have been read through, the question shall then be, "1 Shall the report be enrolled as a part of the Constitution of the State of Illinois? " Resolved, That said Committee on Revision and Adjustment shall then enroll said reports upon parchment, and report the samne to the Convenltion, and iLshall again bee read over, by sections, and the question shall then be upon the adoption of the report as the Constitution of the State of Illinois, and its submission to the people, for adoption or rejection, in such divisions as the (Convention mnay order. Hcow, this is the conclusion to which we came in 1869. It was based upon the commnon sense of the parliamentary law, and wouhd have been so decided, 1 think, under anly cfi'cumstances. There may be some precedents in favor of the rule es tablishled lay the C)hair, b ut I think that there are many precedents against it. I well recollect, Mir. President, ~he discussiont that took place in that Convention Mr. ROS3S. Mr. President: I insist that points of order are not debatable; and we have no time now to discuss parliamentary law. The PRlESIDENT. The gentleman from Cook [Mr. Anthony] will be seated. Allen of Alex.,Forman, Ross, Anderson, Fox, Sharp, Bayne, King, Vandeventer, Bryan, McDowell, Washburn, Cummings, Neece, Wendling, English, Robinson, Wilson- 18. cABSENT, OR NOT VOTING. Allen of Crwfd,Hanna, Skinner, Bowman, Perley, Truesdale, Brown, Poaze, Underwood, Cody, Rice, Wright, Coolbaugh, Scholfield, Mr. President-15. So the section relating to municipal subscriptions to railroads and private corporations was ordered enrolled.' The PRESIDENT. The question is on the enrollment of the section entitled canals. Mr. ELDREDGE. Mr. President: I call for a division of the question on the enrollment of the canal section, ask for the vote on the last clause of the section, and on that call for the yeas and nays. The Secretary read the clause mentioned, as )lows: The Get eral Assembly shall never loan the credit of the State, or make appropriations from the treasury thereof, in aid of railroads or canals: Provided, that any surplus earnings of any canal may be appropriated for its enlargement or extension. Mr. ANTHONY. Mr. President: I rise again to a point of order. After a proposition has been acted upon by the Convention, has been referred to the Committee on Revision and Adju-tment, reported upon, and acted upr U oy the Convention, there is no such thing as taking a vote upon any p-ortion of a section. Mr. ROSS. I risL to a question of order. The PRESIDENT. The Chair will deal with one question of order at a time. CONSTITUTIONAL CON'VENTION TiiuizSDAYI 1852 Y]MAS. Gamble Peirce, Goodell: Pillsbury, Goodhue, Sedgwick, Haines of CookSherrill, Rai-nes ofLake,Snyder, Hankins, 8' I prlrlger Hart, Sutherland, Harwood, Tincher, Hay, Tubbs, Hayes, Turner, I-lildrup, Wagner, McCoy, wait, Medill, Wall, Merriam, Wells, Moore, Wheaton, Parker, Whiting-50. Parks, NAYS. Abbott, Anthony, Archer, Atkins, Benjamin, Bromwell, Browning, Buxton, Cameron, Cary, Chlirch, Craig, Cross, Dement Eldredg, Ellis, FtiUer MAY 12, 18w. DEBATES A~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~D PROCEEDINGS. 1853~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ every proposition had passed through the Committee of the Whole, had been adop ted in Convention, had been referred to the Committee on Revision and Adjust ment, with instructions to engross or en roll it, when that report came before the Convention, whether it should finally pass or not, put the question upon each distinct proposition. In the New York Convention the pre siding officer allowed the Convention to reconsider a proposition even when before the Convention by the report of the Com mittee upon Revision and Adjustment. That, however, was allowed under a spe cial rule of the Convention. The Convention in 1862, before this question came before them, passed a spe cial resolution, upon the motion of Mir. Thornton, that whenever a report should come before the Convention from the Committee upon Revision and Adjust ment the question should be, "Shall the report be enrolled as a part of the Constitution? " Now, if the present Conven tion had seen fit to pass a resolution previous to this time that the question should be put in that form, the Chair would undoubtedly have given it the same construction as was given by the presiding officer of that Convention, because the direction to put the question in a given form would have excluded any other mode of putting the question. But this Convention has framed the express rule for the guidance of the Chair, that whenever there are two distinct propositions, the Chair shall divide upon the call of any member-and the Chair thinks it must be apparent to any gentleman of the Convention that in framing a Constitution the rule is a wise one. Th e very latest moment should be given to B body revising the fundamental law of the land to reconsider its action. If there be a distinct proposition not s o connected with another proposition that the two must go together, the Chair can conceive no reason why a majority should not determine that either should not be enrolled as a part of the Constitution. The Chair therefore adheres to the ruling made yesterday upon this question, and will divide this proposition. The question is upon enrolling the last clause, which was read by the Chair. Mr. DEMENT. Mr. President: I would ask the gentleman from LaSalle [Mr. Eldredge] if he would not further divide that clause, if it is divisible-O whether he desires the provisions in that clause, that the surplus net earnings may not be appropriated to the enlargement or extension of the canal. If he desires that that shall be voted down, I shall vote against it on that account. If it is further divisible, and he desires further to divide it, and preserve that clause, I will then go in for it. Mr. ELDREDGE. Mr. President: I am perfectly willing that the question on the last proviso shall be further divided, and I think that may fairly be done. My impression was and is, that the last clause in this proviso is altogether unnecessary, and that the Legislature will have such power as they choose to exercise over the question, independent of the last clause in this proviso. As the clause is merely permissive and not mandatory, and as the Legislature has as much po ~er to allow the net earnings of the canal to be applied to its enlargement or extension, if the Constitution be si lent upon o the q uest i on, as it would under the last clause of the proviso, I am unable to appreciate the force of the point made by the gentleman from Lee [Mr. Demen-t]. The PRESIDENT. The proviso can not be separated from its context. A proviso never is a distinct proposition. It is only by connection with its antecedents that it is a proviso. Mr. BUXTON. Mlr. President: I would like to ask if the first part of the section has been enrolled? The PRESIDENT. The gentleman from LaSalle [Mr. Eldredge] only desires the question taken upon the last clause. The question is upon the enrollment of the last clause. The Secretary read the section under consideration, as follows: The Illinois and Michigan canal shall never be sold or leased until the specific proposition for the sale or lease thereof shall first have been submitted to a vote of the people of the State, at a general election, and have been approved by a majority of all the votes polled at such election. The General Assembly shall never loan the credit of the State or make appropriations from the treasury thereof, in aid of railroads or canals: Provided, that any surplus earnings of any canal may be appropriated for its enlargement or extension. The yeas and nays were ordered, and being taken, resulted-yeas, 40, nays 31 -as follows: Abbott, Ellis, Allen of Alx'n,Forman, Anderson, Goodell, Archer, Hankins, Atkins, Hildrup, Bromwell, King, Browning, McCoy Bryan, McDowell, Buxton, Moore, Cary, Neece, Church, Parker Craig, Rice, Cross, Robinson. Dement, Anthony, Hart, Sedgwick, Bayne,.Harwood, Sherrill, Benjamin, lRay, Snyder, Cameron, Hayes, Truesdale, Eldredge, Medill, Wagner, English, Merriam, Wait Fuller, Parks, Wells Gamble, Perley, Wheaton, Goodhue, Pillsbury, Whiting, Haines of Cook,Ross, Wright-31. Haines of Lake, ABSENT, OR NOT VOTING. Allen of Cwf'd,Coolbaugh, Peirce, Bowman, Cummings, Poage Brown, Fox, Scholfield Cody, Hanna, Mr. President-12. So the canal section was ordered enrolled. Mr. W iENDLING. Mr. President: I would like to inquire if one or two gentlemen have not voted, who have forgotten pairing with some other gentlemen on the canal question? Mr. SEDGWICK. I guess not. Mr. BAYNE. I would like to inquire if the gentleman from Shelby [Mr. Wendling] has a resolution to make? Mr. WENDLING. I do not allude to any one. Mr. BAYNE. I only paired off on woman's suffrage. Mr. GOODELL. I rise for the purpose of obtaining information. I wan% to When a question of order i s r aised, the gentleman can state the point of order. Mr. ANTHONY. I have but little more to say. The PRESIDENT. The point of or der was very fully stated, but the Chair desires to state that it is a question upon which the Chair would like to hear the gentleman; so the gentleman from Cook [Mr. Anthony] can proceed with his sug gestions. Mr. ANTHONY. I have nothing further to say, Mr. President, except that I urge it upon this Convention as one of the most important precedents that can be established by any Convention. It may work in this case here to-dav, but tearing to pieces a Constitution that it has taken six months to make, is the equivalent, I repeat, of striking out sections by'he Convention refusing to order them enrolled. Now, just one word further. When we have adopted a provision, when it has become the sense of the Convention, and two days have expired, we cannot reach it by reconsideration-only by a suspension of the rules by a two-thirds vote. But if the ruling prevails, the gentleman who calls for a vote upon the enrolling of a proposition may, by a bare majority, succeed in striking out a proposition that has been discussed for six months. That is the point I wish to urge upon the President-that we are establishing a precedent which will be quoted everywhere. I do not wish to take an appeal from the decision of the Chair, but I feel that this is one of the most important precedents that can be established in a Constitutional Convention. Therefore it is that I raise this point of order, and that I have explained the matter so fully. Mr. DEMENT. Mr. President: I wish to remark that when the committee of this Convention upon rules drafted the rules which have thus far governed our deliberations, they had before them the rules which governed the Convention of 1862, and adopted them almost entire, leaving Pout or rejecting the rule or resolution upon this subject adopted by the Convention of 1862-the same which the gentleman from Cook [Mr. Anthony] has read. That is the only parliamentary usage that the gentleman has been able to refer to, after two or three day's notice upon this subject. That rule was objected to, or repudiated by this Convention, and it does not and should not govern us now. That is all I have to say upon that subject. One word more. We have been acting two or three days upon the decisions of the Chair, and have waited to avail ourselves of the position in which the different questions would be presentedto us under that decision, which has been sustained by this Convention, and I do hope we will adhere to that decision of the Chair and the Convention. The PRESIDENT. The Chair will state that he has given as mature consideration to this question as to any that has come before this Convention. It is not a new question. Upon consulting the authorities he finds that in the Massachusetts Convention of 1853, the President, Mr. Banks (who had considerable experience), when the report of the Committee upon Revision and Adjustment came before the Convention, although {~4 *~~~~~~~, i MAY 12, 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1853 YEA$. Sharp, Skin-ner, Spr.uger, Sutherland, Tincher, Tubbs, Turnei, Underwood, Vandeventer, Wall, Washbyrn, Wendling, Wil, son-40. HAYS. 185w CNSTITUIONAL )O~YENION THRSSDA~ judicial districts designated in this Constitution, and for the election of three judges of the circuit court in the county of Cook, as provided for in the article of this Constitution relating to the judiciary, at which el ection every person entitled to vote according to the terms of this Constitution shall be allowed to vote, and the election shall be otherwise conducted, returns made and certifticates issued, in accordance with existing laws: Provided, that at said election in the county of Cook, no elector shall vote for more than two candidates for circuit judge. If upon canvassing the votes for and against the adoption of this Constitution, it shall appear that there has been polled a greater number of votes against than for it, then no certificates of election shall be issued for any of said supreme or circuit judges. The PRESIDENT. The section is or - dered enrolled. The question is on the eighth section, and the Secretary will read. The Secretary read section eight, as follows: SEC. 8. This Constitution shall be submitted to the people of the State of Illinois for adoption or rejection, at an election to be held on the first Saturday in July, in the year of our Lord one thousand eight hundred and seventy, and there shall be separately submitted at the same time, for adoption or rejection- Sections nine, ten, eleven, twelve, thirteen, fourteen and fifteen, relating to railroads, i n the article entitled corporations; The article entitled counties; The article entitled warehouses; The question of requiring a three-fifths vote to remove a county seat; The section in relation to the Illinois Central railroad; The section in relation to minority representation; The section in relation to municipal subscriptions to railroads or private corporations, and The section relating to the canal. Every person entitled to vote under the provisions of this Constitution, as defined in the article in relation to suffrage, shall, on the said Saturday of July, 1870, be entitled to vote for the adoption or rejection of this Constitution, and for or against the articles, sections and questions aforesaid, separately submitted; and the said qualified electors shall vote at the usual places of voting unless otherwise provided; and the said elections shall be conducted and returns thereof made, according to the laws now in force regulating general elections: Provided however, that the polls shall be kept open for the reception of ballots until sunset of said day of election. The PRESIDENT. The section will be enrolled. The Secretary will read section nine. The Secretary read section nine, as follows: SEc. 9. The Secretary of State shall, at least twenty days before said election, cause to be delivered to the county clerks of each county blank poll books, tally lists, and forms of return, and twice the number of properly prepared printed ballots for the said election that there are voters in such county, the experse whereof shall be audited and paid as other public printing ordered by the Secretary of State is, by law, required to be audited and paid; and the several county clerks shall, at least five days before said election, cause to be distributed to the board of election, in each election district, in their respective counties. said blank poll books, tally lists, and forms of return, and tickets. The PRESIDENT. The section will be enrolled. The Secretary will proceed. Mr. BRYAN. Mr. President: That report having been read by the chairman of the committee, it would seem to be unnecessary to re-read, except in the con. te sted sections. The PRESIDENT. The Chair is hardly advised over what sections there may be contest, except as that contest ap-e know if gentlemen are willing to accept the situation now? [Laughter.] The PRESIDENT. The question is om the enrollment o f th e first section of the article e ntitled schedule, and it will be enrolled. The question is upon e nrolling the second section. The Seret ary read section two, as follows: SEC. 2. That all fines, taxes, penalt.es, and forfeitures due and owing, to the State of Illinois, under the present Constitution and laws, shall inure to the use of the people of the State of Illinois, under this Constitution. Mr. ROSS. I spoke to the gentleman from Sangarnon [Mr. Hay] on the necessity of inserting "taxes" in that section, and we did not think it necessary, on account of the action of the Convention in relation to the two-mill tax. Its adoption might interfere with the laws already passed. I move that "taxes' be stricken out. The PRESIDENT. The question is one of substance, and can only be reached by a suspension of the rules. Mr. ROSS. I move that the rules be suspended. The PRESIDENT. The question is on the motion that the rules be suspend- ed for the purpose of enabling the gentleman from Fulton [lIr. Ross] to move to strike out the word "taxes" from the second section. The motion of Mr. Ross to suspend the rules was not agreed to. Mr. ROSS. Mr. President: I ask a division of the questien on the enrollment of the section. The PRESIDENT. The Chair does not understand that there are separate propositions in the section. Mr. ROSS. The word "taxes," Mr. President, has been put in since, and I would like to have a second vote on that. The PRESIDENT. The single word can hard;y stand alone. [Laughter.] The section will be declared enrolled. The question is on the third section, and it will be declared enrolled. The question is on the fourth section, and the section will be declared enrolled. The question is on the fifth section. Mr. McDOWELL. Mr. President: The Chair will remember that we have not the same numbers that he has. The PRESIDENT. The Chair will read the sections or ask the Secretary to do so. The fifth section is as follows: SEC. 5. All existing courts which are not in this Constitution specifically enu merated shall continue in exristencee, and exercise their present jurisdiction until otherwise provided by law. It will be'enrolled. The question is on the sixth section. It reads as follows: ~f. SEC. All persons now filling any office or appointment shall continue in the ex:ercise of the duties thereof, according to their reBpective commnissions or appointments, unless by this Constitution it is otherwise directed. And the section will be enrolled. The question is on the seventh section. The Secretary will read the seventh section. The Secretary section seven, as fol1Qws: - NEW CONSTITUTIO!N TICKET. For all the propositions on this ticket which are not canceled with ink or pencil; and against all propositions which are so canceled. For the new Constitution. For the sections relating to railroads in the article entitled corporations. For the article entitled counties. For the article entitled warehouses. For three-fifths vote to remove county seats. For the section relating to the Illinois Central railroad tax. For the section relating to minority representation. For the section relating to municipal subscriptions to railroads or pri vate cpo porations. For the section relating to the canal. Each of said tickets shall be counted as a vote cast for each proposition thereon, not canceled with ink or pencil, and against each proposition so canceled, and returns thereof shall be made accordingly by the judges of the election. Mr. WHEATON. Mr. President: The question being on the enrollment, I desire to state to the Convention that in my judgment, the Committee on Revision and Adjustment have exceeded their power by striking out entirely a portion of section twenty-nine. which requires the double proposition of "for" or "against" the three-fifths vote for the removal of county seats, to be voted for separately by the people, and providing in this section that they shall only vote for the three-fifths vote to remove county seats. As the report in schedule was originally adopted by the Convention, and referred to our committee, it provided in this section for a three-fifths vote to remove county seats. Subsequently to that being prepared by the Committee on Schedule, the Convention passed what was in the report of the Committee on Schedule, section twentynine, providing for a submission to the people, separately, of the question of removal of county seats, and that the people should vote for a three-fifths vote to remove county seats, and against a three-fifths vote to remove county seats. The intention of the Convention, in my judgment, ought to have been carried out by the Committee on Revision and Adiustment, by inserting both of those propositions in the ticket. They have not done so, but have left out one of them, thus leaving the people to vote only for a three-fifths vote to remove a county seat. Mr. SPRINGIER. Mr. President: I rise to a question of order. I think this question was raised once, and was settled. Mr. WHEATON. M~r. President: The only question settled by the Convention was the suspension of the rules. The PRESIDENIT. The point of order is not well taken. Mr. WHEATON. Mr. President: I insisted before the committee, as I insist now, that to give full force to the will of the people, it should have some means of expressing itself, byr a vote directly and t; CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION THURSSDAY, 1854: peared on the reading of the gentleman from DuPage [iNIr. Cody]. Mr. DE NIENT. 31r. President: I believe the necessi",y for the reading exists from the fact alone that the iaunibers of the sections have been changed, and are now different from our copies. The PRESIDENT. The Secretary will proceed to read. The Secretary read section ten, as follows: SF,c. 10. At the said election the ballots shall be in the following form: SEC. 7. On the day this Constitution is submitted to the people for r,,ttifleation, an election shall be held for judzes of the Isuprerrie court in the second, tird-f3ixth and seventh MAY 12, 1870. DEBATES AXD PROCEEDINGS. 1855w will lead to difficulty, and I am opposed to it. , I am opposed to the manner in which the section is to be submitted, for the reasonf that if a ticket should be put into the ballot box carelessly, and without erasing, the voter would vote for the three-fifths rule to remove county seats, perhaps withou t designing to do so. We all know as a matter of fact that these things do often occur, and, I think, per haps it has been put in that way for the purpose of misleading the people in ref erence to that matter. But if the ticket should read " three-fifths vote to remove county seats, or against three-fifths vote to remove a county seat," two distinct prop, ositions would be proposed. Then, if a party does not think to cast his vote upon that subject, but puts it in without making any erasures at all, he does not vote upon the subject, for one proposition cancels the other; whereas in the way it is put, every elector who is indifferent upon the subject is made to vote for the three-fifths rule. Mr. ROSS Mr. President: I would ask the gentleman if he is willing to make the same change in regard to voting upon the railroad article? Mr. WAIT. I ask the gentleman, in return, if it is admitted here that the republican party has the ascendancy, and can control the Convention? I ask him if he is willing we shall declare here that the democratic party is not competent to manage the finances of this State, and if he wishes us to provide in this Constitution that two republican votes shall be equal to three democratic votes upon all questions of finance? This is precisely the principle that the gentleman is seeking to enforce upon the pDeople of different counties. Mr. ROSS. This should be submitted the same as the other questions, and if the gentleman is not willing to charge the article with relation to voting railroad subscriptions, I do not see why he should want this changed. It will bind up the people so that they cannot build any more railroads in this State. Mr. WAIT. What has that to do with this case? If we have done wrong once, shall we repeat it again? If you want to complain about that, why not complain in the proper time? Mr. ROSS. I did. Mr. WAIT. I do not desire to discuss this subject. Gentlemen here are already well iniormed upon it. It is now too late for muck discussion, but I feel, as a citizen of the State of Illinois, that to impose such a rule on any community is unjust. I ask if it is honorable or statesmanlike for a majority to impose this rule of threefifths upon counties? If three-fifths are to be governed by two fifths, then why not require a two-fifths vote to impose such a rule? Why should we violate a well-established rule? I do not believe the people of my county, living at the county sent, will approve of it. We have provided, in another section, against fraudulent votes on county seat questions, which was the only matter complained of. I was for the old Constitution on counties, and am sorry to have the subject occupy so much time in the Convention. I am convinced the propositlon is not right, and I must oppose it. I am in favor of having the two propositi~ons divided, and I desire the vote to be taken on them aanaxna,tdlv: of this Constitution, and for or against the articles and sections respectively submitted, shall be made by the several county clerks as is now provided by law, to the Secretary of State, within twenty days after the election; and the returns of the said votes shall, within five days thereafter, be examined and canvassed by the Auditor, Treasurer and Secretary of State, or any two of them, in the presence of the Governor, and proclamation shall be made by the Governor, forthwith, of the result of the canvass. The PRESIDENT. It will be enrolled. The Secretary read section twelve, as follows: SxEc. 12. If it shall appear that a majority of the votes polled are for the new Constitu tion, then so much of this Constitution as was not separately submitted to be voted on by articles and sections, shall be the supreme law of the State of Illinois on and after Mon day, the 8th day of August, A. D. 1870; but if it shall appear that a majority of all the votes polled were against the new Constitu tion, then so much thereof as was notsepa rately submitted, to be voted on by articles and sections, shall be null and void. If it shall appear that a majority of the votes polled are for the section relating to railroads, in the article entitled "corporations," sections nine, ten, eleven, twelve, thirteen, fourteen and fifteen, relating to railroads in the said article, shall be a part of the Constitution of this State; but if a majority of said votes are against said sections, they shall be null and void. If a majority of the votes polled are for the article entitled "counties," such article shall be a part of the Constitution of this State, and shall be substituted for article eight in the present Constitution, entitled "counties." But if a majority of said votes are against such article, the same shall be null and void. If a majority of the votes polled are for the article entitled "warehouses," such article shall be a part of the Constitution of this State; but if a majority of said votes are against said article, the same shall be null and void. If a majority of the votes are for either of said sections separately submitted, relating respectively to the Illinois Central railroad, minority representation, municipal subscriptions to railroads and private corporations, and the canal, then such of said sections as shall receive such majority shall form a part of the Constitution of this State; but each of said sections so separately submitted, against which respectively there shall be a majority of the votes polled, shall be null and void: Provided, that the section relating to minority representation shall not be declared adopted, unless the portion of the Constitution not separately submiitted to be voted on by articles and sections, shall be adopted; and in case said minority representation shall become a portion of the Constitution, it shall be substituted for sections seven and eight of the legislative article. If a majority of the votes cast at such election shall be for a three-fifths vote to remove a county s(at, then the words "a majority shall be stricken out of section four of the article on counties, and the words "threefifths" shall be inserted in lieu thereof; and the following words shall be added to said section, to wit:" But when an attempt is made to remove the county seat to a point nearer to the center of the county, then a majority vote shall only be necessary." If the foregoing proposition shall not receive a majority of tlhe votes as aforesaid, then the same shall have no effect whatever. Mr. WAIT. Mr. President: I wish to call attention to section twenty-eight in the report in relation to county seats. I am opposed to this section, and have been opposed to it all the time, for the reason that it does not seem right that there should be established a doctrine in this country that two-fifths of all the X voters shall be equal to the other threefifths, on any subject; or, putting it directly, that the votes of two persons C living at the county seat, shall be held: to be equal to the votes of three persons i living away from the county seat. It seems to me that it is bad doctrine, and positively upon both of those proposi tions- fo r a three fifths vote, and against a three-fifths vote. But according to the mann er in which it is submitted in the section now sought to be enrolled, there is only a provision for a vote for a three fifths vote, leaving it to the accident of an erasur e of those who desire not to vote for a three-fifths vote; for if that erasure is not made, every vote cast is a vote in favor of the three-fifths vote, which is a Lecompton way of submitting the ques. tion to the people. It is in j ast the same shape as the Lecompton Constitution was when, under the arrangement and by the advice of John Calhoun, it was submitted to the people of Kansas. Now, I am willing, as this Convention has decided that this question shall be passed upon by the people, that they shall honestly and directly express their views upon the question. If they are for a three-fifths vote, let them so express it; if they are against it, let them so express it; but give each voter the power and right to express himself one way or the other, and not leave it to the accident of an erasure. Mr. CARY. Mr. President: As this question can be more properly raised at another point, I move the previous question. The motion for the previous question was agreed to, and the main question ordered. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the enrollment of section ten. The yeas and nays were ordered. The Secretary proceeded to call the roll. Mr. HAYES (when his name was called) said: I ask leave to, in one word, explain my vote. I vote against the enrollment of this section, because I think the mode of submission is unfair. It does not place voters on an equal footing. It gives a decided advantage to those supporting the affirmative of the several propositions. The result was then announced-yeas, 45, nays 22-as follows: NAYS. Abbott, TIarwood, Allen of Alex.,IIayes, Anderson, McCoy, Atkins, Neece, Cody, Parker, Eldredge, Perley, Ellis, Peirce, Hart, ABo SENT OR NOT VOTING. Allen of Crfd., Fox, Sedg-wick, Anthony, Hanna, Turner, Bowman, Poage, Washburn, Brown, Rice, Wells, Coolbaugh, Scholfield, Mr. President-16. Dement, So section ten was ordered enrolled. The Secretary read section eleven, as follows: SEC. 11. The returns of the whole vote cast, and of the votes for the adoption or rejection I t t r r c i t t e t i e t 9 a s p r t s DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. -MAY 12, 1870. 1856 YEAS. Fuller, Pillsbury, Gamble Robinson, Goodell, Ross, Goodhue, Sharp, Haines of CookSherrili, Haines of LakeSnyder, Hankins, Skinner, Hay, 8' pringer, Hildrup, Sutherland, King, -' Tincher, McDowell, Tubbs,, Medill, Vandeventer, Merriam, Wagner, Moore, Wilo' Parks, Wright!-4ti. &reher, Bayne, Benjamin, Bromwell, Browning, Bryan, Buxton Camero, Cary, Church, Craig, Cross. Cumming.3, English, Forman Truesdale,. Underwood, 11 Wait Wall., Wendling, Wheat I" 'T'o Whit!-g-22. 0 1856~ COSIUI-LC~YNI~ HRDY Mr. McCOY. Is the previous question a question of order? The PRESIDENT. It is true that the gentleman stated that he rose to a quiestion of order, but he was entitled to take the floor at that time for any purpose. The gentlemen from Lee [Mr. Dement] yielded the floor. Mr. McCOY. I appeal to the gentleman from Carroll [Mr. Wagner] to allow me to say a single word. Mr. WAGNER. Mr. President: I would gladly do it, but it will open the debate again, and no one can tell when we will get through. Mr. CODY. Mr. President: I riseto a point of order. Can a member rise, get the attention of the Chair, saying he rises to a point of order, and then, instead of stating a point of order, move the previous question? I do not think this proposition - Mr. WAGNER. Mr. President: I will state in reply to the gentleman's last remark, that I rose in the first place to a point of order, but the necessity for stating it was obviated by the'gentleman from Lee [Mr. Dement] taking his seat. The PRESIDENT. The Chair feels conscious of having assigned the floor to the gentleman from Carroll [Mlr. Wagner], from his saying that he rose to a point of order. Several gentlemen rose at the same time, and among the halfdozen who sought to get the floor, the Chair probably assigned it to the gentleman from Carroll [Mr. Wagner], because lie said he rose to a point of order. Under the circumstances, the Chair ought not to entertain the motion for the previous question. Mr. CODY. Mr. President: The C ommittee on Revision, only a small portion of them being present, did not see fit to so arrange the ticket in this schedule as to comply with the vote of the Convention adopting section twenty-nine, which provides that there shall be a proposition submitted for and against a three-fifths vote, for the reason that the Convention had adopted a form for the ticket. I think this section ought not to be enrolled in its present form. If every gentle man will look into the motives that actuate his own conduct, he will see what the effect of submitting this propostt ion in this manner will be. It will be to take away and trample under foot the rights of the localities directly affected. They are now powerless. If gentlemen will allow the interests of their own counties to control them, so that a majority here will take away the rights of these localities, because they are few in number, I presume it cannot be helped; but I would much prefer to see the Convention do an open and fair thing and put a clause in the Constitution at once, declaring it forever adopted, without any vote, rather than by a fraud (as it seems to me) secure the adoption of such a proposition. We not only vote separately upon section four once in the article on counties, but here it is again submitted separately and in such a manner that no opportunity whatever is given to the people in the localities interested, or in those localities e that are affected unfavorably by it to secure their rights at all. It cannot be denied that this ticket, in the way it is made up, does secure in favor of the adoption of some portions of this Constitution a very decided advantage, and while this is so, and while the Conven- r If the majority of the v otes cast at such election shall be for a three-fifths vote to remove a county seat, then the words, " a majority " shall be stricken out of section four of the article on counties, and the words "three-fifths" shall be inserted in lieu thereof. s t t e CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION Tii-uiitSDAY, 1856 t',on is willing it should be thus, it ought not to be made an excuse for injuring the rights and the interests of various localities directly affected by this, that are perfectly powerless to protect themselves. Why not either qtrike out this last clause, so that it shall stand as section four of the article on counties, which is separately submitted, or arrange it so that -every man shall be compelled to erase one of the lines? Let us see how the gentleman from Lee [Mr. Deuaent], by my side, is affected by this matter. Although he is anxious that this three-fifths pro-position should be adopted to benefit his localitv, yet by the proposition in reference to moving it nearer to the center of the county, his county is i-Djured, and he stands up here and earnestly protests, but we turn a deaf ear, because, perhaps his county stands alone. There is, perhaps, no other gentleman so situated. Will gentlemen act for the intierests of separate localities, when, in so doing, they violate principle and assist fraud? Why turn a deaf ear to this appeal for juistice, if our own counties will have by this proposition an unfair advantage, to which they are not by right entitled? Why not act fairly, and strike out this last clause, which gives a double chance for the adoption of section four of the article on counties as amended by this provision, and for incorporating it into the Constitution of 1848, even though the people may have voted it down as a part of the article on counties. There is where the fraud comes in, as a part of this matter, and it does seem to me that honorable delegates should not sit here and allow such wrong to be perpetrated upon the counties of the State whose interests are so injuriously affected by this proposition. [Here the hammer fell.] Mr. PERLEY. Mr. President: I have a single word to say. We want to do this thing fairly. This Convention cannot, at its close, afford to do an unfair thing. I hope that we will present the matter fairly to the people, so that we shall not be ashamed of it when we look it over. Mr. SPRINGER. Y-r. President: I can see no unfairness in submitting this question as it is proposed to submit it. All the other sections are submitted just Mr. DEMENT. I wish to remark to the Convention that a part of this section is offering a mere alternative to the peoI)le. We have in the article upon counties a section that a majority shall govern this question, and in this schedule article, an alternative proposition requiring three-fifths to remove a county seat. That is one of the propositions of this section. Now I am with the gentleman from Henry [Mr. Wait] in desiring a division on the question of enrolling this section, to the word "thereon,71 the eighth line, as it is in my copy. I propose that the division be upon that word. It then refers this design of an alternative to the people, allowing a ma,jioritv to remove the county seak. If we reject the portion I object to, then the balance of the section is a distinct proposition, if the people' adopt it, requiring three —fifths, and leaving the alternative proposition of a majority for the choice of the people in the present Constitution. It leaves out the other questions about votii)g the amendment upon the people, whether they adopt this section or not. If the people vote down both these propositions, the present Constitution remains, if we reject this, a,,- I hope we will, if the Chair decides that question as divisible. Mr. WALL. Mr. President: I do nol, desire to say anything except as to the last clause of the section, and if I can engage the attention of the Convention, I will endeavor to state my point bri efl.y The former part of the section provides that in case the proposition for a threefifths vote shall receive a majority of the votes cast, the words "a'majority" in section four shall be struck out, the words three-fifths inserted in their place, and the following words be added: But when an attempt is made to remove a county seat to a point Dearer the center of the county, then a majority only 11 shall be necessary. The last clause reads, 11 and in case this Constitution shall be rejected, then said section four " (that is section four of the article on counties which may or in.ay not be'adopted), 11 then said section four shall become a part of the Constitution of 1848 in place of section five of the article on counties." Now I submit, that under this clause, no matter whether the article on counties be adopted or not, in case this Constitution is defeated, this section four, as amended by section twenty-nine, will take the place of the section in the present Constitution. I ask whether this Convention desires to amend the'Constitution in that manner? I think the simple statement is all that is necessary to induce the Convention to vote it down. Mr. DEMENT. Before the gentleman takes his seat' I desire to ask him ["Question," "Question."] I merely want the Convention to understand what the gentleman objected to. Mr. WALL. I object to the proposition that in case the Constitution is voted down, section four, as amended by this section, shall become'a part of the pres,ent Constitution, whether section four has been adopted or not. Mr. DEMENT. Mr. President Mr. WAGNER. Mr. President: I rise to a question of order. Mr. President: I move the previous question. p MAY 1, 1870. DEBATES AD PROCEEDIX'GS. 1857 but I hope this provision will not be stricken out. Our present Constitution requires only a majority vote to remove a county seat. If it is the intention of this Convention, as proposed, to submit the question of requiring three-fifths to remove a county seat, I say we should submit it in such a manner that when the people shall have passed upon it it may have effect, if they shall decide affirmatively. Gentlemen propose to submit this section separately, and that it shall not abide the fate of the article on counties. Therefore they very properly say, in this section, that if the proposition "for threefifths" gets a majority vote, and the article on counties should be adopted also, those words shall be placed in the article on counties, in the place of the word "t majority." They with equal propriety say that if this Constitution is rejected, then section four shall become a part of the old Constitution; because they do not intend, I apprehend, when they propose to submit it separately, that it shall abide the fate of the new Constitution at all; but if they, by their separation of it from the body of the new Constitution, mean anything, it is that in the event of that being re ected, the section shall go into the old Constitution. If they do not mean that, then they ought not to propose it as a separate article. The only place they can find for it will be in the old Constitution, if this Constitution should be rejected. Therefore, if they think the. Convention means anything when it proposes to submit this as a separate proposition to the people, they can take no other course with it, except to place it, as this section requires, in the old Constitution. I cannot see any trick, at all. If thepeople determine that a three. fifths vote shall be required, then if the new Constitution is adopted, that goes into the new Constitution, and!by this same section, if the section is adopted, and the body of the Constitution rejected, it goes into the old Constitution. It is perfectly right that it should be so, because if we intend to adopt the threefifths vote, it ought to go into the Constitution, if it is adopted, and into the old, if the new is rejected. It seems to me right and proper, and that if the Constitution means anything by submitting this separately, it means that the provision shall not, in the event of its adoption and the further event of the rejection of the body of the Constitution, be left without a habitation or abiding place, but that in case the pesople reject the new Constitution, and decide to insert the three- fifths vote, it shall be so inserted. The only place it can be put, if the proposed Constitution should he rejected, is in the old Constitution, and it is perfectly right and proper it should go there. Mr. NEECE. Mr. President: I move the previous question. Mr. DEMENT. Mr. President: Would it not be in order to strike out something else besides what the gentleman from McLean [Mr. Benjamin] proposed to strike out 'The PRESIDENT. The gentleman wishes to divide the question of enrollment so as to take the sense of the Convention upon enrolling the different parts of the proposition. Mr. WHEATON. I rise to a question of order. The gentleman from McLean It is perfectly fair thus far. It also provides tha t if the people do vote in favor of three-fifths, there shall be added to section four, on counties, these words: But when an attempt is made to remove a county seat to a point nearer the center of the county, then a majority vote only shall be necessary. It provides further that if the threefifths provision is carried by the people, and the people vote down the article on c oun ties, section four of that article so voted down by them, shall yet become a part of the Constitution anyhow. That is just what it says. We ask the people then to vote separately upon section four, and they vote it down, reject the Constitution, and yet we provide that section four, after having been voted down, shall become a part of-the Constitution of 1848, in case this question of three-fifths receives the ma. jority vote of the people. Mr. SPRINGER. Is not that submittinag the section separately? Mr. WHEATON. How is it submitting it separately? It submits it in this way: If the people vote down section four it is to become part of the Constitution, providing they vote in favor of three-fifths, and that is wherein it differs from the mode of submitting any other section in this Constitution. It is an outrage and a swindle. .Mr. BENJAMIN. Mr. President: I would say that this section was reported by the Committee on Schedule, was passed in Convention, but since the discussion has arisen, I can see that there is a clause in it, which, in my opinion, the Convention never-intend to insert. I will state that I am among the number in favor of the insertion of the words threefifths, and hence I have no object whatever in defeating those who are in favor of requiring three-fifths to remove a county seat. I would direct the attention of the members of the Convention to the schedule before them, page fourteen, near the close of the section. It seems to me the last th ree lines should be stricken out. I will read the following clause: And in case this Constitution shall be rejected by the electors at said election, then said section four shall become a part.,f the Constitution of 1848, in place of section five, article seven, on counties. I think we had better strike out this clause and not refer at all to the existing Constitution of the State. There is another clause to which objection is made: But when an attempt is made to remove a county seat to a point nearer to the center of the county, then a majority vote only shall be necessary. Those opposed to this section cannot urge that clause as an objection to the section because it is a provision irn favor of the principle asserted by them, that a majority ought to determine the location of a county seat. It seems to me that we ought to, strike out the clause making section four a part of the Constitution of 1848, in case this Constitution is rejected, and in order to accomplish that I move a suspension of the rules. The question being upon the motion of M~r. Benjamin for a suspension of the rules, a division was ordered. The Convention divided, when the motion was agreed to. Mr. WASHBURN. Mr. President: I amnot locally interested in this question, 465 ~:. [Mr. Benjamin] asked that the rules be suspended. The Convention voted they should be suspended. After that, the gentlema n fr om. cLean [Mr. Benjamin] made no motion relative to striking out, but the gentleman from McDonough [Mr. Neece] hag moved the previous question. I would inquire whether it is not in order to move to strike out? Mr. CODY. I heard the gentleman from McLean [Mr. Benjamin] make the motion to strike out. The PRESIDENT. The gentleman from McLean [Mr. Benjamin] stated that he desired a suspension of the rules, that he might move to strike out, and the Chair did not therefore deem it necessary for him to specifically state the motion, when the Convention had suspended the rules by a two thirds majority to enable him to do it. The Chair, therefore, stated the question, and the gentleman from Williamson [Mr. Washburn] debated it. The first question will be on the motion to strike out, and then the enrollment of the section; and upon that question the Chair will undertake to divide the propo. sition, if it is susceptible of division. The motion for the previous question was agreed to, and the main question ordered. The PRESIDENT. The question is on the motion of the gentleman from McLean [Mr. Benjamin], to strike out. A division was ordered. The Convention divided, when, there being thirty in the affirmative and fourteen in the negative, the motion of Mr. Benjamin was agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the enrollment of the section. Mr. SPRINGER. Mr. President: In what condition does that leave the section? The PRESIDENT. The question is not one relating to the proceedings of the CODvenition, but as to the effect of the section, which question the C(onvention more appropriately can determine. The gentleman from Lee [Mr. Dement] has asked a division of the question. Will the gentleman indicate the point of division he desires? Mr. HAYES. Mr. President: While the gentleman from Lee [Mr. Dementl is indicating his division, I will ask a verbal alteration. That is to strike out the word "but" and make the "I" a capital. The PRESIDENT. It will be so ordered. Mr. DEMENT. ~[r. President: This is the division i desire, down to and including the word'"thereof," in the eighth line. I desire that the section shall stand, leaving out" "and the following words shall be added, to wit, etc." which will leave it upon the three-fifths basis alone. The PRESIDENT. -The Chair can. not regard the section as susceptible of that- division. The clause is so imme. dietely a part of the rest of the section as not to make a distinct proposition by itself.' Mr. DEMENT. Mr. President: I wish to object to enrolling the latter part o0f the section. The PRESIDENT. That would be equivalent to a motion to strike out, and would not be in order without a suspen' sion of the rules. Mr!1. HAYES. Mr. President: I now askr DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 3 857 MAY 1 21 1 8 i"O. 0 1858 CONSTITUTIONAL CONYENTION TRURSDAY, t) have the verbal correction as I indicated, made. The PRESIDENT. It has been made. The question is upon the enrollment of t h e section. The yeas and nays were ordered. Mr. WHEATON. Mr. President: I desire a division. I do not suppose gentlemen desire a vote on the former part. The PRESIDENT. So much of the section as does not relate to the county qu estion will be ordered to be enrolled. MVlr. BROMWELL. Mr. President: I suggest a verbal amendment to avoid a tautology. The word',respectively" follows "which." It should follow a plural. I move to strike it out. The motion was agreed to. The Secretary proceeded to call the roll. Mr. ALLEN, of Alexander (when his name was called) said: Mr. President: I desire to state that I have paired off on this question with the gentleman from Lake [Mr. Haines]. Mr. McCOY. Mr. President: I ask that gentlemen in the hall be required to vote on this question. I believe the gentleman from Jo Daviess [Mr. Cary] has not voted. The PRESIDENT. It is the duty of every member to vote, and any member can insist that any gentleman shall vote. Mr. CARY. Mr. President: I under. stand that I am outside of the bar, and I have a personal reason for not voting. Mr. McCOY. Mr. President: I hope the rule will be enforced. The PRESIDENT. The gentleman is within the bar of the chamber, as defined in the -rules. If he had desired not to vote, he should have left the Convention chamber. It is the duty of the Chair to enforce the rule, which defines the Convention chamber as being the space within the railing, and the open space within the doors outside of the railing. 31r. WENDLING. I move the gentleman from JoDaviess [Mr. Cary] be excused from voting. The motion was agreed to. The result was then announced-yeas 38, nays 26-as follows: YEAS. Bayne, Haines of Cook, Sherrill, Benjamin, Harwood, Snyder, Bromwell, Hildrup, Skinner, Browning, King, Springer, Cameron, McDowell, 8utherland, Church, Medill, Truesdale, Craig, Merriam, Tubbs, Cross, Moore, ~andeventer, Cummings, Neece, Wagner, English, Parke, Washburn, Fuller, Pill sbury, Wells, Gamble, Robinson, Wright-3g8. Goodell, Ross, NAYS. Abbott, Forman, Peirce, Anthonyr, Fox, Sharp, Atkins, Goodhue, Turner, Bryan,'Hart, Wait, Buxton, Hay, Wall, Cody, Hayes, Wheaton, :Dement, - McCoy, Whiting, Eldredge, Parker, Wilson-N2. Ellis, Perley, SEC. 13. Immediately after the adoption of this Constitution, the Governor and Secretary of State shall proceed to ascertain and fix the apportionment of the State for members of the first house of representatives under this Constitution. The apportionment shall be based upon the federal census of the year A. D. 1870 of the State of Illinois, and shall be made strictly in accordance with the rules and principles announced in the article on the legislative department of this Constitution: Provided, that in case the federal census aforesaid cannot be ascertained prior to Friday, the 23d of September, A. D. 1870, then the said apportionment shall be based on the State census of the year A. D. 1865, in accordance with the rules and principles aforesaid. The Governor shall, on or before Wednesday, the 28th of September, A. D. 1870, make official announcement of the said apportionment, under the great seal of the State; and 100 copies thereof, duly certified, shall be forthwith transmitted by the Secretary of State to each county clerk for distribution. Section thirteen was ordered enrolled. The Secretary read section fourteen, as follows: SEC. 18. All laws of the State of Illinois, and all official writings, and the executive, legislative and judicial proceedings, shall be conducted, preserved and published in no other than the English language. Section eighteen was ordered enrolled. The Secretary read section nineteen, ai follows; SEc. 19. The General Assembly shall pass all laws necessary to carry into effect t he pro - vrisions of this Constitution. Section nineteen was ordered to be enrolled. The Secretary read section twenty, as follows: S8c. 20. The circuit clerks of the different counties having a population over sixty thousand, shall continue to be recorders (ex-oqlcio) for their respective counties, under this Constitution, until the expiration of their present terms. Section twenty was ordered to be enrolled. The Secretary read section twenty-one, as follows: SEC. 21. The judges of all courts of record in Cook county, shall, in lieu of anv salary provided for in this Constitution, receive the compensation now provided by law until the adjournment of the first session of the General Assembly after the adoption of this Constitution. Section twenty-one was ordered enrolled. The Secretary read section twenty-two, as follows: SEC. 14. The districts shall be regularly numbered by the Secretary of State commencing with Alexander county as No. 1, and proceeding thence northwardly through the State, and terminating with the county of Cook; but no county shall be number ed as more than one district, except the county of Cook, which shall constitute three districts, each embracing the territory contained in the now existing representative districts of said county. And on the Tuesday after the first Monday in November, A. D., 1870, the members of the first house of representatives under this Constitution shall be elected according to the apportionment fixed and announced as aforesaid, and shall hold their offices for two years and until their successors shall be elected and qualified. Section fourteen was ordered enrolled. The Secretary read section fifteen, as follows: Snc. 22. The present judge of the circuit court of Cook county shall continue to hold the circuit court of Lake county, until otherwi s e provided by law. Sect'on twenty-two was ordered to be enrolled. The Secretary read section twentythree, as follows: [ SEc. 23. When this Constitution shall be adopted and take effect as the supreme law of the State of Illinois, the two-mill tax provida. ed to be annually assessed and collected upon each one dollar's worth of taxable property, in addition to all other taxes, as set forth in article fifteen of the now existing Constitution, shall cease to be assessed after the year 1870. Section twenty-three was ordered enrolled. The Secretary read section-tweenty four, as follows: SEC. 15. The senate, at its first session under this Constitution, shall consist of fifty members, to be chosen as follows: At the general election held on the first Tuesday after the first Monday of November, A. D., 1870, two senators shall be elected in districts where the term of senators cxpire on the first Monday of January, A. D., 1871, or where there shall be a vacancy, and in the remaining districts one senator shall be elected. Senators so elected shall hold their office two years. Sectien fifteen was ordered enrolled. The Secretary read section sixteen, as follows: SEC. 16. The General Assembly, at its first session held after the adoption of this Constitution, shall proceed to apportion the State, for members of the senate and house of representatives, in accordance with the provisions of the article on the legislative department. Section sixteen was ordered enrolled. The Secretary read section seventeen, as follows: SEc. 17. When this Constitution shall be ratified by the people, the Governor shall forthwith, after having ascertained the fact, issue writs of election to the sheriffs of the several counties of this State, or in case of vacancies, to the coroners, for the election of all the officers, the time of whose election is fixed by this Constitution or Schedule, and it shall be the duty of said sheriffs or coroners to give such notice of the time and place of said election as is now prescribed by law. Section seventeen was ordered enrolled. The Secretary read section eighteen, as follows: SEC4.24. Nothing contained in this Constitution shall be construed as to deprive the General Assembly of power to authorize the city of Quincy to create any indebtedness for railroad or municipal purposes, for which the people of said city shall have voted, and to which they shall, by such vote, have given their assent prior to the thirteenth day of December, 1869. Mr. SEDGWICK. Mr. President: I desire to have the yeas and nays taken upon the enrollment of the section just read. Mr. DEMENT. Mr. President: l~call for the previous question. The yeas and nays were ordered, and being taken, resulted-yeas 28, nays 35as follows. Tii-LTRSDAY, 1858 CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION The Secretary read section thirteeu, a follows: TBA.S. Allen of Alex. Ellis, ,knderson, Forman, Archer, Fox, Benjain, Hay, Browning, King, Bryan, McDowell, Cameron, Moore, coqy, Neece, Craig, Robinson, Cummings, Ross, Sharp, Snyder, Sliiiiner, Vandeventer, Wells, Wendling, Wilson, Wright-28. .LBSENT, OR NOT VOTING. Allen of Alex., Coolbaugh, Scholfleld, Allen, of Crlfd,Haines of Lake,Sedgwick, Anderson, Hankinis, Tincher, Archer' Hanna, Underwood, Bowman, Foage, Wendling, Brown, Rice, Mr. President-19. Cary, So section twelve, as amended, was ordered enrolled. WA.YS. Goodhu Sedgwick. Haines oei CookShe'-rrill,I Abbott, Anthony, I 0 MAY... 1......1870............................................................ That the Committee on Printing be instructed to inquire if it be necessary for the Secretary or Postmaster to remain after the adjournment, and report the time, if any, during which they should remain, and report for their pay. That the Committee Pon Accounts and Expenses be instructed to report the pay due to all employees, except the secretaries, to and including Monday, and report a resolution for their pay. Sutherland, Tincher, Tubbs, Wagner, Wait, Wall, Washburn, Wheaton, Whiting-35. ABSENT, OR NOT VOTING. Allen of C'fd. Haines of LakeScholfield, Atkins, Hankins, Springer, Bowman, Hanna, Truesdale, Bromwell, McCoy, Turner, Brown, Parks, Underwood, Coolbaugh, Poage, Mr. President-20. English, Rice, So section twenty-four was not ordered enrolled. The Secretary read section twenty-five (24) as follows: SEa. 24. In case this Constitution and the articles and sections submitted separately, be adopted, the existing Constitution shall cease in all its provisions, and in case this Constitu tion be adopted and any one or more of the articles or sections submitted separately, be defeated, the provisions of the existing Con stitution, if any on the same subject, shall re main in force. Section twenty-four was ordered en rolled. The Secretary read section twenty-six (25) as follows: SEc. 25. The provisions of this Constitu tion required to be executed prior to the adoption or rejection thereof, shall take effett and be in force immediately. Done in Convention at the capitol, in the city of Springfield, on the --- day of May, in the year of our Lord one thousand eight hundred and seventy, and of the independenice of the United States of America the ninety-fourth. In witness whereof we have hereunto subscribed our names. Section twenty-five was ordered enrolled. Mr. BUXTON. Mr. President: I move to insert " twelfth" in the blank. Mr. TURNER. I think we had better insert the 13th (to-morrow). ADJOURNMYIENT. Mr. FOX. I move that the Convention do now adjourn. The motion was not agreed to. SCHEDULE. Mr. CODY. I do not think the blank ought to be filled until the day of adjournment is reached. It seems to me this motion should be withdrawn, and the day inserted at the time we subscribe our names to the Constitution. Something may transpire that may prevent an adjournment when desired. I hope the gentletman who made the motion —I do not know who it was-will withdraw it. SINE DIE ADJOURNMENT. Mr. BRYAN. Mir. President: loffer the Abllowing resolution, which I will read: .Resolv~ed, That the Convention adjourn sane die on Friday, May 13, 1870, at two o'clock P.MA. bMr. KING. Mr. President: I offer the following as an amendment. The PRESIDENT. The Secretary will read the amendmenlt. The Secretary read the amendment offered by Mr. King, as follows: .Resolved, That the Convention will adjourn without day on Monday, Mary 16,1870. That the Auditor be directed to mlake up the accounts of members to that date, with their mileages and pay to each member the amount that may be due them, deducting all former payments. Mr. KING. Mr. President: I offer this for the reason that I understand the Cons titution, for the want of parchment, canBnot be enrolled until Saturday, and because the secretaries have got to wait. Mr. TURNER. Mr. President: I move the previous question upon the amendment and the resolution. ["Read," "read."] The PRESIDENT. The Secretary will read the proposition offered by the gentlieman from Jersey [Mr. King]. PRAYER. Prayer was offered by the Rev. Mr. Ford, of Springfield, as follows: We re alize, our Father, our dependence upon Thee; hence, we pray Thee, when we under take t he work of l ife. We come to Thee this morning b e cause we feel that we need Thy assistance. We come to invokeesin o thy blessing upon these Thv servants and th eir labors for thi s State. Thou hast blessed them in the past. Thou hast di rected them thus far in the work committed to their charge. They are drawing to th e close of the work committed to their hands by the people of the State. Im press upon our minds, our Father, the fact that life's work will also close. While they are near the close of this work, impress them with the truth that they are near the close of the work of life. What they have had com mitted to them is important in its nature. Impress them also with the truth that life's work is more important. They leave endea vored to be faithful in the performance of this great public service. Help them to be equally faithful-yea more faithful in the work Thou hast committed to them, so that when they wind up the great affairs of life, they may have the consciousness that God will,approve of their labor and will receive them to the enjoyment of His kingdom on high. Let,Thy blessing rest upon Thy servant, the President of this Convention. Direct him in all his deliberations. Bless everv member to-day, and keep each one from the wrong. Bless them in all the walks of life; and again we ask for Thy blessing to rest upon their loved ones. We know there is a warm feeling in their hearts lor the dear ones who are far away. We know there is longing- to see them, and that they look to the time, soon at hand, when they shall be permitted to enjoy again the quiet of home. We pray God to take care of those loved ones in all their walks in this world. Be with them there. Be with these members here. Bless us all in Thy presence. Help us to glorify God, keep our eye upon ,the great future, and walk in the fear of the Lord, that bye and bye we may be elevated to the station of redeemed souls in Thy kingdom on high. We ask for the Redeemer's sake. Amen. REALDING OF THE JOURNAL. The Secretary proceeded to read the journal of the last day's proceedings, when_ Mr. SEDGWICK. Mr. President: I move that the further reading of the joarnal be dispensed with. The motion was agreed to. ADJOURNMENT. Mr. CROSS. Mr. President: I move we now adjourn. A division was ordered. The Convention divided, when, there being twenty-e ight in the affirmative, the motion was not agreed to. SINE DIE ADJOURNMENT. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the motion for the previous ques tion. The motion for the previous question was agreed to, and the main question ordered. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the amendment offered by the gen tleman from Jersey [Mr. King.] The yeas and Jays were ordered. Mr. ROSS. Mr. President: I move to lay the resolutions on the table. The Secretary is out of enrolling paper, and has had to send to Chicago for more. Mr. SNYDER. We cannot sit here waiting f,or enrolling paper. iMr. TURNER. Mr President: Iask for a division of the question, and that the question be first taken on the amend ment of the gentleman from Jersey [Mr. King]. -o The PRESIDENT. The question is upon laying on the table the amendment offered by the gentleman from Jersey [Mr. King]. The imotion of Mr. Ross to lay on the table the amendment offered by Mr. King to the resolution offered by Mr. Bryan, was agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the motion to lay upon the table the resolution of the gentleman from Marion [Mr. Bryan.] The Secretary read the resolution offered by Mr. Bryan, as follows: Res olved, That the Convention adjourn sine die on Friday, May 13, 1870, at two o'clock, P. M. Mr. WHEATON. Mr. President: I suggest that we say six o'clock. That will give us all day to-morrow for work. Mr. SEDGWICK. Mr. President: I rise to a point of order. I understood the motion to embrace both resolutions. The PRESIDENT. The question is on the motion to lay on the table the re solution offered by the gentleman from Marion [Mr. Bryan.] A division was ordered. The Convention divided, when the motion of Mr. Ross to lay upon the table the resolution offered by Mr. Bryan was agreed to. -MAY 12, 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1859 Bayne, Buxton, Cary, Church, Cross, Dement, ,k Eldredge, Fuller, Gamble, Goodell, Hart, Harwood, Have,s, Hifdr'UPI Medill, Merriam, Parker, Perle'y, Peirce, Pillsbury, ADJOURN.NJEENT. Mr. CARY. Mr. President: I move that the Convention do now adjourn. The motion was agreed to. So the Convention (at seven o'clock and ten minutes) adjourned. NINETY-FIFTff DA Y. F-RIDAY, May 3, 1870. The Convention met at nine o'clock, A.. m,, and was called to order by the President. COMPARING ENROLLED CONSTITUTIO1\1. Mr. SEDGWICK offered the following resolution, whien was read by the Secre. tary and agreed to: I?esolved, That the Committee on Revision and Adjusted be instructed to depute three of their number to compare the enrol',ed Constitution with the revision, and send it up to the clerk's d(isk, sheet by sheet, as fast as compared, so that it can be read to the Convention for correction. SETTLEMENT OF PRIINTING AND REPORT ING AICCOUNTS. Mr. TURNER. Mr. President: I am instructed by the Committee on Printing p 1860 COXSTIT UTJiNAL CO VETIC) FRIDAY, which it seem me is unnecessary. My amendment is 0o insert after "elections" the words "except the registry laws." This will save a large expense to the State, and will prevent the necessity of what is almost an impossibility, between the time the people will receive this Const itution, and the time they are to vote upon it. The same amendment should apply also to section seven, providing for the election of the supreme judges. Mr. HAINES, of Cook. I would like to ask the gentleman whether in voting on this Constitution, those who are registered will not be allowed to votew hether it is necessary to make a new registry? Mr. CHURCH. Yes. Unless this amendment is inserted there will have to be a registry of all the voters in the State, between now and the second of July. The PRESIDENT. The language will be inserted by c-)mmon consenr, but the Chair will state to the gentleman from McHenry [Mr. Church], that it is desira ble the precise language should be re duced to writing, and handed to the Sec ratary. It will be then necessary for the chairnan of the Committee on Revision and Adjustmerit to instruct the Enrolling Clerk, who has not yet reached the arti cle, to insert the language. ADDITIONAL PAY TO SECRETARIES. Mr. PEIRCE. I desire to introduce a re oolution. The Secretary read the resolution of fered by Mr. Peirce, as follows: Resolved, That the Auditor of State be di rected to draw his warrant on the Treasurer in favor of John Q. Harmon, Daniel Shepard, and A. H. Swain, for a sum equal to two dol. lars per day, for the session of this Conven tion, as additional compensation for extra services rendered as employees of this Con vention. Mr. PEIRCE. 1Ir. President: I think this is only just to these efficient and able officers who have served us so well and faithfully during the session. They have been compelled to work many days dur in,g the session until twelve or one o'clock at night, and will be compelled to remain here for several days after the session closes- after we shall have returned to our homes-in order to complete and per fect the journal of our proceedings, and perform the important duties we have imposed upon them. Mr. sPR!iNGER. lMr. President- I wound like to call the attention of the Convention to the fact that the law fixes M the pay of the Secretaries at six dollars a day, and that, in my opinion, we cannot exceed that amount. I do not think the Auditor will be authorized by anly exist inlg law to draw his warrant on the Treasurer for any amount in excess of six dollars per day. The resolution is evi dently in violation of law, and I hope it will not be adopted. Mr. PEIRCE. Mr. President: This is for extra services. Mr. SPRINGER. Mr. President: I have no objection to paying the Secreta ries well for their work, but we cannot violate the law, which provides that they sshall be paid six dollars a day, and the same mileage as members of the General Assembly. A resolution of this Couven tion is not as high authority as an act of the General Assembly, and in my opinion the resolution will be void if adopted. iMr. SKINNER. Mr. President: The arnid Binding to offer the following resolutions for adoption. The Secretary r ead the res olutions, as follows: Resolved, That the Hon. Joseph Medill and Hon. Daniel Cameronl be and they ar e hereby appoint ed a committee to measure and certify to t he number of es comntained ina the official reports and index of the debates of this Convention, and that the Auditor draw his warrant upon the treasury, payable to Ely, Burnham & Bartlett, reporters, for the amount duelthem, under their contract, as certified by said conmmittee. Resolved, That the Secretary of State, Au4itor and Treasurer be and they are hereby nstructed to settle with the printers and binders of this Convention, in accordance with their respective contracts, and the statute Concerning printing and binding. Mr. TURNER. Mr. President: I merely wish to refer the Convention to the law upon this subject, as some members seem not to understand it. I find the following provision in the law: It shall be the duty of the Secretary of State, Auditor and Treasurer to examine all the accounts renderedby the public printer or printers, for work performed or materials furnished for the State, which said officers shall call to their aid three or a less number of practical printers, who shall not be in the employ of the public printer, or in any man ner interested in the contracts for printing or binding, to assist them in the examina tion of said accounts. The persons so em ployed shall be paid at the rate of five dollars per day for the time necessarily occupied in the examination of such accounts, to be paid out of the fund appropriated for the expenses of the office of Secretary of State. In regard to the binding, it is provi ded that Ir,mediately upon the fulfillment of any contract-for binding, the Secretarv of State, Auditor and Treasurer, or any two of them, shall proceed to settle the accounts of the public binder, in the same manner as }s pro vided in section fifteen of this article for the settlement of the accounts of the public printer. 3[r. TURNER. 3Tr. President: I ask the adoption of the resolutions. Sir. MOORE. Mlr. President: The Committee on Accounts and Expendi tures have a report very similar, which they have instructed me to report. I would like to read ib to the Converntion, and let thenm elect which they will accept. .Resolved, That Joseph Medill and General Daniel Cameron be and they hereby are ap pointed a committee to measure all the work perfo-)rmed lay the reporters and printers for this Convention, to adjust and certify the ac eounts of the same to the proper officers be fore they are final?y- paid, and to do and per lorin all such other matters arnd things in re lation to the printing, publishing and bind ing done or to be done for this Convention, as may secure the speedy comlpletion of said printing and binding, and a hair settlement Ion the same. Mr. TURNER. The Committee on '-Prinsting arid Binding might be satisfied with that in preference to their own. M~r. BUXTON. I move that the reso lution be referred to the Committee on Printing and Binding. The PRESIDENT. The resolution of the gentleman from DeWitt [Mr. Moore] will be referred to the Committee on Printing and Binding. Mr. CHURCH. I desire the attention of the Conlventio~n to, and ask unanimnous consent to the insertion of two or three words in section eight, line eighteen, of the schedule. The short time given for voting on the Constitution will make it very inconvenient to accomplish the reg istry, besides requiring a large expense, extra labors of these officers are well known. They have worked nights, and thereby, and in other ways aided the work of the Convention. I think the resolution is a proper one, and plainly just. ["Read the resolution.-'] The PRESIDENT. The Secretary will read the resolution. The Secretary read the resolution offered by Sir. Peirce, as follows: -Resolved, That the Auditor of State be dlrected to draw his warrant on the Treasurer in favor of J. Q. Harmon, Daniel Shepard, and A. H. Swain, for a sum equal to two dollars per day for the session. of this Convention, as additional compensation for extra services rendered as employees of this Convent.ion. The PRESIDENT. It is proper for the Chair to say, without desiring to influence the action of the Convention, that it is within his personal knowledge that the Secretaries have performed, each and every (lay, more than a day's labor. They have shown remarkable efficiency in all the minor duties of their service. They have worked during the night until a late hour, and the resolution does not seem to the Chair to do them more than jus tice. Mr. SHARP. Mr. President: I move the previous question. The motion for the previous question was agreed to, and the main question or dered. The resolution offered by Mr. Peirce was agreed to. Mr. TINCHeER. Mr. Presiden t: I wish to offer a resolution. The Secretary read the resolution offered by Mr. Tincher, as follows: Resolved, That the members of this Con. vention tender their thanks to the publishers of the State Journal and ltegister for their kindness in furnishing at the desks of each member their daiiy papers during the sitting of this Convention. Mr. TINCHER. Mr. President: I simply wish to tender our thanks to the only publishers who have, free of charge, furnished us their papers promptly during the session every morning at our desks. The resolution offered by Mr. Tincher was agreed to. M r. ENGLISH. Mr. Pre sident: I wish to offer a resolution. The Secretary read the resolution offered bv Mr. English, as follows: Resolved, That so much of the resolution heretoi0re adopted, by which the Convention fixed a time for adjournment from March 17th to April 12th, 1870, as prohibits the receiving of per diem during said recess, be and the same is hereby rescinded, and that the pay roll of this Convention be made tO conform to this resolution. Mr. ENGLISH. Mr. President: I offer this resolution simply because I feel that I can do so, not being a candidate for any office whatever. I only want pay for actual service, and I feel I have lost more money by being here, than I shall have made if this resolution be adopted. Mr. MERRIAMI. Mr. President: I call for the yeas and nays. The yeas and nays were ordered, and being taken, resulted-yeas, 3, nays, 5b — as follows: 1860 CONSTITUTIONAL CON'VENTI(-) FRIDAY, TJ:IANKS TO SPRINGFIELD JOUR11TAL AND REGISTER. PER DIEM DTJRING RECESS. 0 MA 13::0 EAE NDPOE1IG.16 YEAS. in order at present. The Secretary will to $20,000, not counting the paper used by in order at present. The Secretary will read the resolution offered by the gentleman from Cook [MNr. Anthony] as amended. The Secretary read the resolution offered by Mr. Anthony, as amended by Mr. Hay, as follows: Resolved, That the enrolled Constitution shall be signed in the following order, to wit: First by the President of the Convention,and secondly by the members of the Convention in alphabetical order, and that they do now proceed to authenticate it by signing, after which the same shall be attested by the Secretaries of the Convention, and the President shall then deliver it to the Secretary of State. Mr. TRUESDALE. I should like to inquire whether this resolution can authorize the signing of the Constitution by proxy. The PRESIDENT. The Chair will state that there is a precedent for signing by proxy, under a similar resolution, in 1862. Mr. WAIT. I apprehend that there may be more or less embarrassment in signing the Constitution, unless we observe some order and have some regulation in reference to the signing. Would it not be proper to add, at the bottom of that resolution, that the Secretary call the names of the members, that they advance to his desk, and attach their signatures to the Constitution? The PRESIDENT. The Chair will direct that order, as the resolution would be better executed in that way. The gentleman from McDonough [Mr. Neece] moves to strike out the word "shall," and insert "may." The motion was not agreed to. The resolution offered by Mr. Anthony, as amended by Mr. Iay, was agreed to. SINE DIE ADJOURNMENT. Mr. VANDEVENTER. Mr. President: I desire to offer the following resolution: Resolved, That this Convention adjourn side die at three o'clock P. M. I wish to state that until some definite time be fixed upon for the adjournment, the Auditor cannot make up the accounts of the members. On yesterday,upon the supposition or under the impression that the Convention would then adjourn, tthe Auditor made up all the accounts to that day. As there was no final adjournment, the work must all be done over. In order, therefore, that members may be put to no inconvenience on account of being obliged to wait for their accounts, and to give the Auditor time to discharge his duties in the premises, I hope that the resolution may be adopted. The resolution was agreed to. to $20,000, not counting the paper used by reporters, all other articles furnished to the reporters to be charged them in final settlement. That the printing done by the Reqister office for the first forty days, was estimated at $3,500. At the same rate the cost of the printing done, a nd to b e done by the -Regi.ster office must cost the State from $8,750 to $10,000. 7 That your committee, without having much reaEon for data for so doing, presume that the amount of the bill from the Journal office for all printing done, and to be done by that office, will be about the same as the bill fi'om the Registe?r office. They therefore estimate the amount at from $8,000 to $10,000., Your committee would further report that they cannot give any exact data in regard to the paper; that the Secretary has already delivered the Register office about $3,776 25, and the Journal office about the same amount; to three or four hundred newspapers thirty dollars, say $10,000, making a total for printing, reporting, and paper of about the sum of $57,552 50. But your committee do not pretend that this is accurate, but it is the nearest that' your committee can approach to it. Your committee would further report that they deem it of great importance that this Convention should have some part in measuring and estimating the printing done by both and all the offices in this city for the Convention, and that no final payment be made for the above work until the same is measured, accepted and certified by a committee hereafter to be appointed by this Convention. Your committee would further recommend that J. Q. Harmon, Secretary of this Conven. tion, be allowed the sum of twenty-four dollars, for four days' labor in remaining in Springfield, and mailing letters, papers and documents to members of this Convention, during the last recess, as directed by the resolution of this Convention. Your committee would further recommend that Leland & Co. be allowed the sum of thirty dollars, [for room rent furnished the Committee on Revision and Adjustment, being all the rent charged to that committee. Your committee would further recommend that J. H. McDonald be allowed the sum of one hundred and thirty-eight dollars, for twenty-three days' service as clerk for the Committee on Revision and Adjustment; and that the sum of one hundred dollars be allowed to T. C. Jewell, for his service in enrolling and engrossing upon parchment the new Constitution. In all of which they ask the concurrence of the Convention. Mr. CODY. Before action is taken upon the report, I desire to offer the following resolution, for the purpose of filling the blank: Resolved, That the sum of one hundred dollars be allowed to Thomas a. Jewell, for enrolling the Constitution upon parchment. Mr. President: I desire to state with reference to this matter, for the information of the Convention, that the gentles man employed to enroll the Constitution is an expert. Perhaps no better man could have been found to do this work. He is a gentleman of fine education, has been for some five years employed in the office of the Superintendent of Public Instruction, and since the commencement of this work, he has employed~ two or three mnen to assist him in making comparisons, the expenses of which he has paid himself. He has worked almost every hour since he commenced upon it; I do not think he has slept three hours a night. I notice by t~he journal of the Convention of 1862 that the sum of one hundred and twenty-five dollars was paid for this same service. The resolution offered by Mr. Coder was agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon concurrence with the report of the committee. ABSENT,s OR NOT VOTING. Allen of Cr'fd,Craig, Pillsbury, Atkins, Cummings, Poage, Bowman, Dement, Robinson, Brown, Forman, Scholfield, Bryan, Haines of Lake, Turner, Cameron, Hanna, Wait, Cody, Medill, Wells, Coolbaugh, Parks, Mr. President-20. So the resolution offered by Mr. English was not agreed to. Mr. ENGLISH. Mr. President: My object in introducing this resolution, was only to ascertain how many candidates for congress there are in the Convention, and I have accomplished my object: all save three-myself and two others. SIGNING CONSTITUTION. Mr. ANTHONY. Mr. President: I also offer the following resolution: Resolved, That the enrolled Constitution shall be signed in the following order, to wit: first, by the President of the Convention, and secondly, by the members of the Convention, in alphabetical order; and that they do now proceed to authenticate it by signing, after which the same shall be attested by the Secretaries of the Convention; and the President shall then deliver it to the Secretary of State. I state that we do now proceed to sign it. I do that for the purpose of making the record straight, although we may not sign it until this afternoon. Mr. NEECE. Mr. President: I move to strike out the word "shall," and insert 4"may." Mr. HAYES. Mr. President: I believe the Co nstitution was adopted, substantially, yesterday. I move that the blank in the schedule be filled by inserting the 12th of May. Mr. HAY. Mr. President: I suggest an amenldment to the resolution that will probably satisfy tender consciencesthat it read, "proceed to authenticate the Constitution by signing." Mr. ANTHONY. Mr. President: I have no objection to that. I accept the amendment. Mr. HAYES. Mr. President: I withdraw my motion in regard to filling the blank in the schedule. Mr. ARCHER. Mr. President: I rise to a question of privilege. The PRESIDENT. Unless the matter relates to the pending question it is:fot 466 EXPENSES OF CONVENTION. bMr. MOORE. The Committee on Accounts and Expendi. tures of the Convention, to whom was referred a resolution on the 5th inst., instructing this committee to inquire into and report to this Convention the cost of the reporting and printing for this Convention, and also the cost of the paper furnished the printers, would respectfully report that they have had the same under consideration, and have instructed me to make the following report: That but little of the work is measuredlas yet, and your committee are informed that it would take nearly a week to measure the work done either by the reporters or printers, and that no accurate estimate can be made until all the printing is finished and measured under the order of this Convention. Your committee estimate the cost of reporting for this Convention at from $16,000 -MAY 131 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1861 yS. English, Snyder, Wright-3. NAYS. Abbott, Goodhue, Sedgwick, Allen of Alex,Haines of Colk,Sharp, Anderson, Hankins, Sherrill, Anthony, Hart, Skinner, Archer, Harwood, Springer, Bayne, Hay, Sutherland, Benjamin, Hayes, Tincher, Bromwell, Hildrup, Truesdale, Browning, KinL,, Tubbs, Buxton, MCCOV, Underwood, Cary, McDoiell, Vandeventer, Church, Merriam, Wa-,,ner, Cross, Moore Wafl, Eldredze, Neece, Washburn, Ellis Parker, Wendli-ng,' Fox, Perley, Wheaton, Fuller, Peirce, Whiting, Gamble, Rice, Wilson-56. Goodell, Ross, T]EIANKS TO STATE OFFICERS. Mr. ANTHONY offered the following resolution, which was read by the Secretary and agreed to: Resolved, That the thanks of this Convention be tendered to all the State office'rs for the prom-Pt and courteous manner in which thev have responded to. all calls made upon thein for information relating to their departments. 186 C>NTTTOA COYSIN RD It is due to Mr. Rummel, however, to say that nothing appeared in the investigation which impugned his honesty in the making of the contract under which these articles were supplied to the State, aad it is some apology bfor its character, that it was uncertain at the time he made it, to what extent he was justified in contracting for stationery, how much would be used or what would become of it, if the Convention should refuse to receive it. This risk, he informed the committee, he threw upon Mr. Harts, from whom the purchases were made,-the Secretary contracting for only so much as the Convention might use, thus compelling the contractor to take the risk of purchasing and keeping on hand a class of articles unsuited to his general trade, and which might be left upon his hands. Your committee nevertheless must characterize the transaction as an improvident one for the State. Your committee cannot close their report without adverting to the imperfections of the laws regulating the matter of contracting for supplies for the State and the manner of accounting for them. The personal integrity of the Secretary, if that were always reliable, affords but a feeble barrier to the dishonest practices against the State which may be successfully carried through this office, under the loose administration and want of system that seems to prevail. Under the laws, requiring the contracts to be let to the lowest bidder, there is no security against combinations, which defeat, in the manner of bidding, the whole object of the law, and whereby the State may be compelled to accept a bid, however extravagant. Should the Constitution we have framed be adopted, we have provided for this defect, in requiring that all contracts shall be approved by the Governor, and that if he disapproves there shall be a re-letting. But when the contract is made, the laws provide no sufficient safeguards for preserving the evidence of its fulfillment; and this is more particularly true in regard to contracts for stationery; nor are there any means provided by law, or adopted in practice, by which it can be ascertained what becomes of the station. cry after it has been received. The evidence before your committee, as to the practice in delivering stationery to the Legislature, was that it was delivered to the door-keeper, and by him distributed to the members; but no evidence was preserved, or books kept, by which the amounts actually delivered to the members could be verified,and these amounts compared with the amounts purchased, so as to preserve due accountability for all received. The same is true in regard to furniture and other articles, with the custody of which the office is charged. It is proper to say, however, that the present officer informed your committee that he had adopted a system of keeping books, accounting for these articles. The Legislature meeting only at long intervals and always hurried in its business, has little time or opportunity to inquire into the manner in which the Secretary has discharged or is discharging his duties. A dangerous opportunity is thus afforded, inviting to connivance with contractors to rob the treasury, under color of contracts at exhorbitant prices, or-the pretense of supplies, that may be furnished neither in quantity nor in quality as contracted for. It is noteworthy that the present Secretary claimed credit for having obtained his present supply of stationeryw much cheaper than they had previously been provided in that office, and samples were exchibited, and comparisons made with the prices paid by his predecessor for similar artic les, which certainly were to the advantage of the present officer, and which indicated that the State had not heretofore obtained its supplies without paying for them, to say the least of it. The present Secretary may have thought it advisable not to inaugurate too violent a reform in the office. The law should designate the kind and quality of stationery to be contracted for, and include only standard classes of the different articles. Under pretext of an extra quality, or a fancy brand of articles furnished, opportunity is afforded to avoid comparisons with the common standards, and to qualify or awpologize for extortionate prices. The State being a large consumer, it is not perceived why she REVISION AND ADJUSTMENT. Mr. BUXTON. Mr. President: The Committee on Revision and Adjustment having had under consideration the following resolution, which was referred to them, have come to the conclusion that the object sought is unnecessary, and ask to be discharged from the further consideration of the resolution. The Secretary read the resolution, as follows: Resolved, That the statutes of Illinois, as appearing in Gross' compilation-latest edition-be added to the Constitution as article -; title, "Miscellaneous Provisions." QUESTION OF PRIVILEGE. Mr. ARCHER. Mr. President: Upon Wednesday of last week, I had leave of absence from the Convention. During my absence the gentleman from DeWitt [Mr. Moore], chairman of the Committee on Accounts and Expenditures of the Convention, made his report to the Convention, of stationery and articles furnished members of this Convention and chairmen of committees, the expense of committee rooms, and janitor and clerk hire. I find charged to the Committee on Future Amendments, of which I had the honor to be chairman, the services of a janitor, at one hundred and two dollars. I considered it due no less to the committee than to myself that I should make soee inquiry into this charge, and how the services of a janitor were renderedwhether exclusively to the Committee on Future Amendments, or divided between it and other committees.' On inquiry at the office of the Secretary of State, I found that the services of the janitor, whose expenses are wholly charged to the Committee upon Future Amendments, were divided between that -committee, and the Committee on Canal and Canal Lands, the latter committee not being charged with any clerk or janitor's services. The report, as it now stands, does injustice not only to myself as chairman of the Committee upon Future Amendments, but to that committee. The charge for jaiitor's expenses should have been divided between the two committees referred to. The Committee upon Canal and Canal Lands occupied a room in the same building with the Committe on Future Amendments, and the janitor's services were rendered to both committee& I call attention to this error. It is proper that I should state that it appears in the speech reported in the Convention Register, made by the gentleman from DeWitt [Mr. Moore] upon the presentation of his report, that in several instances the services of Janitors were divided between different committees, while the charges are made exclusively to one committee. The error probably arose in this report, from the fact that I gave the certificate to the janitor for his services. I consulted with the chairman of the Commit. tee on Accounts and Expenditures [Mr. Moore], before giving the certificate, as to what would be a proper compensation to the janitor. He remarked to me, that as janitors h ~d been employed subj ect to the call of the committee during all the time when the committee had any business before them, he considered it right that they should be paid a per diem for that length of time, whether in the actual employ of the committee every day or Mr. HAY. Mr. President: The committee to whom was referred certain charges made in the report of the Committee o n Accounts and Expenditures beg leave to make the following r eport: The committee, to whom was referred certain charges in the report of the Committee on Accounts an d Expenditures of the Convent ion, and a reply of th e S ecretar y o f State thereto, w ould report That your committee have had only the brief time in the intervals of the sessions of the Conven tion, since this matter was referred t o them, to make the necessary inquiries upon which to base a report. Under these circum stances, y our com mittee had ne cessa rily to confine the i r inquiries to but a portion of the grounds covered by the report of the Committee on Accounts and Expenditures, and even as to that portion, to confine themselves to the mere statements of the immediate parties to the transactions referred to. Your committee were clothed with none of the powers which elicit full truth under the sanction of oath. They submit with this report a sketch of the statements of the different persons who appeared before them. Having no short-hand reporter, nothing was attempted to be taken down but the outlines of the statements of these persons. Your committee directed its inquiries mainly to the question of the value of the stationery furnished by the Secretary of State to the Convention; and it is proper to say that the chairman of the Committee on Accounts and Expenditures who, together with the Secretary, was present during the investigation, disclaimed having intended to make any other charge in this respect, than that the stationery was not of the value at which it was charged to the members. He desired not to be understood as charging that the Secretary charged more for it than it cost. This removed the inquiry under this head to a question of the value of articles of stationery furnished. And your committee respectfully refer to the statements herewith submitted upon that head. Samples of the articles were present and were referred to in connection with the respective statements of the parties, and as your committee had thus afforded to it some better means of forming a conclusion than' the Convention would be able to form from the skeleton of the testimony we submit, we deem it proper to state that conclusion. Your committee is satisfied that the whole list of stationery furnished by the Secretary, with the exception of the quality of writing paper, was charged to the members at more than the ordinary retail prices of the articles. Mr. Harts, the party who furnished the articles to the Secretary, admits a profit of from twent~y to fifty per cent., on the cost to him, but declined to furnish the invoice price of the goods, although admitting the invoices to be in his possession. Your committee, with such admissions as to the profit, coupled with a refusal to exhibit the original cost prie, could nost well hesitate to form the opinion they have expressed, without reference to the balance of the testimony in the case. = CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION FP.IDAY, 1862 The report was agreed to. should not be able to obtain her supplies at the most favorable wholesale Prices. M. HAY, S. P. CUMMINGS, H. W. WELLS, M. A. FULLER, J. W. HANKINS. I The PRESIDENT. The report will lie on the table of the Coinvention. Mr. H,&Y. Mr. President: I ask that the evidence constitute a part of, and 'accompany the report. The PRESIDENT. It will be so or. dered. [Laughter.] The resolution was not entertained by the President. STATIONERY TO CONVENTION AND PRICES THEREFOR. MAY 13, 1870. DEBATES AD PROGEEDINGS. 186w cal administration of the several departments of the government, a new Constitution is an imperious necessity. It is not probable that any Constitution will, in all respects, fully satisfy any one man in the State. Every one will find in it something he would exclude, and would insert something it does not contrain. It must be judged altogether, and if o netter than the old Constitution, it should be adopted. In all human institutions the good and evil are mixed, and sound sense demands that we secure the greatest good attainable; and we must often be content if we get more wheat than tares. For years past the machinery of our State government has been kept in motion only by continued violation of plain and positive constitutional provisions. Nothing can be more pernicious. By this the people lose their respect bfor the laws,, and learn to hold them in contempt. A revere nce for constitutions and laws is the best possible guaranty for the stability of the State, the peace and good order of society, and the protection of the life, liberty and property of the citizen. And whenever it becomes necessary to violate a Constitution, it should be changed to meet and remove the necessity which im pelled to such violation. Our State Legislatures are only restrained by the Constitution of the State, and of the United States. It is therefore necessary that State Constitutions should contain many regulations and restrictions, while the Constltution of the United States may be much shorter, for that is a government of delegated powers, with only the incidental powers necessary and proper to execute the powers granted. not; a nd tha t the per diem should be allowed f or the whole tigmeT In Fthe cp s e of this janitor, the onlv ones empl oyed for the several rooms, the per t diem a mounts to one hundred and two dolla rs. I gave the certificate ac cordingly for that amount, and under the circumstances stated. Mr. McCOY. Mr. President: I wish to ask the name of that janitor. Mr. ARCHER. The name of the jani tor, Mr President, is Welch. Now, this $102 being for services to more than one committee, the charge for his expense should have been divided between the two committees, and not wholly charged to one, as has been done in this report. INDEBTEDNESS OF CITY OF QUINCY. Mr. BUXTON. Mr. President: I wish to make a motion to reconsider the vote by which section twenty-four of the schedule was rejected yesterday. The PRESIDENT. The motion to reconsider will be entered on the journal to be entertained after the present order of business is finished. PRINTING REPORT OF COMMITTEE ON STA' TIONERY AND PRICES THEREFOR. Mr. WASHBURN. Mr. President: I wish to ask if the report of the special committee, just made, will be entered on the journal without an order by the Convention, and, also, whether it will be printed under any standing order? The PRESIDENT. The report will be entered on the journals, and it will be printed under the standing order. INSTRUCTIONS TO POSTMASTER.; Mr. FOX offered the following resolution, which was read by the Secretary and agreed to: Resolved, That the assistant Postmaster and mail carrier be instructed to remain in charge of tht post office of this Convention until Monday, May 16th, and the Auditor allow per diem of said officers during that time. CLOSING OF CONVENTION. Mr. WAIT offered the following reso. lution, which was read by the Secretary and agreed to: Resolved, That when we close the deliberations of this Convention, they be closed by prayer to Almighty God. ADDRESS. Mr. UNDERWOOD. Mr. President: Is it in order now to make reports from standing committees? The PRESIDENT. Reports from standing committees, and also special committees, are now in order, Mr. UNDERWOOD. Mr. President: I wish to make a report fromn the Commnittee on the Address. The PRESIDENT. The report of the special committee on the Address will be read. Mr. UNDERWOOD. The special committee report the following Address: ADDRESS. IN CONVENTION, l~ay 13, 1870. As your representatives in Convention to "alter, revise and amend"' the Constitution, it is due that we should state in brief the most important changes proposed, and some of the reasons therelor. Our State Constitution has been in force for almost a quarter of a century, during which time our population, wealth and interests have augmented. H~owever wise and judicious when adopted, that Constitution has becomec wholly inadequate to. subserve the necessities of the State, with-> out modificationss and restrictions. To secure 1 an effcient and at the same time an ccowmi-I EXECUTIVE DEPARTMENT. We require the Gove rnor, at e ach ses sion of the Legisiature, and at t he clos e of his term of office, to furnish a statement of all moneys received and paid out by him, from any funds subject to his order, with his vouchers therefor. We make it the duty of the Auditor of Public Accounts, Treasurer, Secretary of State and Superintendent of Public Instruction, and persons in charge of State institutions, to keep an account of all monevs received or disbursed by them severally, from all sources and for every service performed; and to make a semi-annual reoort thereof to the Governor, under oath, to be laid before the General Assembly; thus enabling the representatives of the people to expose, and by suitable laws prevent, improvident expenditures and frauds. We have given the Governor power to remove all officers appointed by him, in case they are incompetent, or are guilty of malfeasance in office. We have provided a safer mode cf canvassing the votes for Governor and State officers; and avoided the danger of collusion in cases of contested elections. We have required the Governor to submit a careful estimate of expenses and revenue to each General Assembly. This will restrain extravagant appropriations, and give the people a proper understanding of the financial" condition of the State. We have made the veto power as in the Constitution of the United States, only to be overcome by a vote of twothirds in each house of the General Assembly. Had this provision been in our existing Constitution, it would have saved us from many injurious and unconstitutional acts, and many chartered monopolies passed by the combinations of interested persons. BILL OF RIGHTS. ttibIn addition to the usual guarantees of natural and civil liberty, we have declared that no person shall be denied any civil or political right or capacity on account of his religious opinions. All persons have the right to publish the truth with good motives and for justifiable ends. Private property shall not be taken or damaged for pubiic use without just compensation to be ascertained by a jury. The fee of lands taken for railroad tracks is to remain::in the owners, subject to the use for which it is taken. All irrevocable grants of special privileges or immunities are prohibited. to protect the people against privileged orders and dangerous monopolies. Grand juries may be dispensed with. Our jails are crowded with criminals during the intervals of circuit courts, at great expense to the counties. County courts may be authorized to try, in a summary manner, many criminal cases, and thus save the counties the large expenditures of keeping prisoners for trial from term'to term of the circuit courts, andpersons not guilty may be promptly discharged or acquitted. We have endea vored to preserve all the courts to which our people are accustomed, to avo id the evils of too g reat a variety of courts, and at the same time make the system sufficiently flexible to allow the General Assembly to provide for a speedy and prompt administration of justice. All the new courts indicated are left entirelv in the discre tion of the General Assembly to create or not, as the public wants may demand. Our supreme courtis burdened with many unadjudicated cases, and decisions are delayed, to the prejudice of suitors and the public. To enable that court to fully investigate and properly decide and write out creditable opinions, we have added four more judges to its number. We have required its judges to be elected in separate districts, and at times when no general election is held, to avoid a partisan court. Should that court be unable to dispose of its cases with reasonable dispatch, we have authorized the General Assembly to create an appellate court, which may be held in each county by the circuit judges, without additional compensation, and with jurisdictionlin such cases as may be prescribed by law. Such courts are said to be of great value in Ohio and New York. We contemplate continuing the old circuit court system. We have, however, authorized the General'Assembly to provide for electing not exceeding four judges in a larger circuit, and to assign them to duties in its counties. The advocates of this system affirm that it has worked well in other States, and is an improvement on our present system; that it avoids frequent changes of venue, and the expenses of piarties and witnesses occasioned thereby; that it secures greater uniformity of practice in circuit courts, and ena. bles the people to procure more competent judges and dispose of their suits with greater facility. To remove the evil of frequent changes of the times of holding courts, we have provided that they shall not be altered during the terms of the judges, and to prevent the creation of too many circuits, we have put restrictions upon the same. We have provided that county courts may have additional jurisdiction conferred by law, and county judges, if desirable hereafter, may be elected in districts composed of two of' more LEGISLATIVE DEPARTMENT. To avoid partisan injustice ini representative districts, and the expense and delay of the General Asembly in making them, we have provided for districting the State as in Ohio, by ratio and computation. To guard against undue influences upon members of the General Assembly, and to afford small counties representatives, we have increased their numbers. We have also required a stringent oath against bribery and corruption. To afford security against hasty and vicious legislation, we have required all bills and amendments thereto to be printed before they are passed. Only one subject shall be embraced in each bill, and when amendments are made to laws, or acts are revived, the sections amended and acts revived must be stated at length. The evils of special and local legislation have become enormous. The expeuse to the State in passing and publishing such laws, and the combinations by which private speculations have been secured, and monopolies with extraordinary and dangerous powers have been created, are well known. We have prohibited the General Assembly hereafter from passing such laws; and have required general laws in all cases where a general law can be made applicable. We have forbidden the General Assembly from releasing any liability to the State or to any municipal corporation therein. We have placed additional guards against speculative contracts made with officers of the State for stsationery, fuel, etc., and we have limited the amount of expenditures to be incurred on MAY 13, 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1863 account ofithe Stete capitol now in process of construction. We have provided for public and private roads, and,for the drainage of lands We have required the enactment of liberal homestead and exemvtion laws, and laws for thuprotection of miners; and we have submitted a separate article, designed to protect producers and shippers of grain against frauds in warehouses. JUDICIAL DEPARTMENT. 1864 OOSTITUTIOAL 0 YETIO FRIDAY, ous property, and what by general contribution, the people of the particular town or city are better qualified to decide than others can be. The same system will not be suited to the wishes or necessities of all places. Under our present laws, streets and sidewalks are falling into decay, and a radical reform is indispensable. To remove this evil, we have authorized the Legislature to vest in each city and town full power and control of such improvements, and of the means best adapted to its wishes, circumstances and necessities. For all other purposes, taxation therein must be uniform. We have also prohibited the General Assembly from imposing taxes upon municipal corporations for corporate purposes. If in all other respects the two Constitutions are equal, these provisions alone should secure the support of every citizen of every town and city in the State. CORPORATIONS. We have provided that no corporation, public or private, shall be created or have its charter amended by special law, except institutions for charitable, educational or reformatory purposes, under the patronage of the State. All grants of charters for special and exclusive privileges under which no organizations have taken place, or which shall not have been in operation within ten days after this Constitution takes effect, shall be invalid. We have prohibited the construction of street railways without the consent of the local authorities in towns and cities; and we have provided for the protection of the minority of stockholders of private corporations in the election of directors. counties, and probate courts may be established in counties having a population over 50,000. We have provided for the election of a State's attorney in each county, in lieu of circuit attorneys. Wehave established a special system of courts for the county of Cook, which it is confidently expected will meet her necessities. We have requiredlaws relating to courts to be of general and uniform operation; and the organization, jurisdiction, powers, proceedings and practice of all courts of the same class, so far as regulated by law, and the force and effect of process, judgments and decrees of such courts, shall be uniform. We have made it the duty of all judges of courts of record to furnish the General. Assembly with defects they may discover in our laws. The performance of this duty with fidelity will enable the Legislature to simplify and perfect our statutes. All existing courts are continued until otherwise provided by law. ELECTION AND RIGHT OF SUFFRAGE. We have made our law on suffrage conform to the Constitution of the United States, and extended that right to persons informally,naturalized before courts of record anterior to January, 1870; and we have submitted a separate article on minority representation. COMMON SCHOOLS. WVe have required a thorough and efficient system of common schools, and that all grants and donations for common school purposes shall be applied to their use with fidelitv. We have forbidden the General Assembly and all public corporations from donating money or property to any church, or for any seta rian purpose, or for any school controlled by any church or sect; and we have prohibited school teachers and school officers from being interested in the sale of books, apparatus and furniture in the schools with which they are connected. BANKS. We have prohibited the State from being interested in any banking corporation. Forbid the establishment of any bank of issue, deposit or discount without the approval of a majority votes cast at a general election. We have declared that no suspension of specie payments shall be legalized and we have required that banks shall deposit ample securities for the protection of their creditors. RAILROADS. We have provided that railroads owning parallel or competing lines shall not be consolidated, and that a majority of the directors shall be residents of this State. We have declared railroads to be public highways, and required the General Assembly to establish reasonable maximum rates of charges, and to prevent uniust discriminations and extortions. We have asserted the right of the State, by the exercise of the power of eminen t domain, to subject the property and franchises of incorporated companies to the public use, the same as the property of natural persons. We have provided against the release of the obligation of the Illinois Central Railroad to the State, thereby securing to the State nearly half a million of dollars annually. STATE, COUNTY AND MUNICIPAL INDEBTED NESS. We have prohibited the State from contracting indebtedness beyond $250,000, without submitting the law to the people. We have forbidden the General Assembly from loaning the credit of the State and making appropriations from the treasury in aid of internal improvements, and from paying or assuming the debts or liabilities of any publc or othe r corporation,association or individual. We have prohibited county authorities from ever assessing taxes, the aggregate of which shall exceed seventy-five cents per $100 valua tion, except for the payment of indebtedness existing at the adoptior of this Constitution, uniunless authorized by a vote of the people of the county. We have forbidden cities, counties and all public corporations from creating or further increasing their indebtedness above five per cent. on the value of the taxable property within the same, and required that at the time of incurring such indebtedness, an annual tax shall be levied, sufficient to pay the interest as it falls due, and to dis charge the principal within twenty years. For want of such a provision in our State Constitution, our counties, towns and cities have contracted liabilities of over $50,000, 000. We have submitted a separate article pro hibiting all municipal subscriptions to rail road stock. COUNTIES. We have provided that if a portion of a county is added to another county, its inhabitants shall be-obliged to pay its proportion of the indebtedness of the county from which it is taken. We have required that voters on the question of removing county seats shall, next before the election, reside in the county six months, and in the election precinct ninety days; and that the question of the removal of a county seat shall not be oftener submitted than once in ten years; and we have submitted separately the question whether less than three-fifths of the votes cast shall be sufficient for the removal of a county seat, when proposed to be moved further from the center of a county. We have provided that counties having adopted township organization, may, by vote, dispense with the same. We have provided that counties not under township organization may elect a board of three county commissioners to manage their county affairs, one of whom shall be elected every year; and we have made special provisions for Cook county. We have provided for the usual county officers and their compensation. All officers who are paid by fees, are required to make a semi-annual report, under oath, of their fees and emoluments. CITIES, TOWNS, ETC. In Ethe numerous cities and towns of this State, streets, alleys, sidewalks, etc., are indispensable to their growth and prosperity. They must be graded, paved and kept in repair. How this shall be done, how paid for, what proportions by the opers of contigu CONSTITUTIONAL 0,3NVENTION FRIDAYI 1864 FEES AND SALARIES. Under the present Constitution, it was und practically impossible to carry n the hree,departments of government without vading its provisions. The compensation ilowed the Governor, State officers, judges nd members of the General Assembly, was wholly insufficient in times when the prices of all the necessaries of life were increased, and the currency inflated. By general and special laws, the fees of clerks and inferior officers afforded them much greater incomes than the salaries of Governor and j adges, and in the populous counties, and in Chicago, those fees afforded compensation beyond all reasonable bounds. We have inaugurated a system bv which all perquisites ofjudges and State officers will be prohibited. We have limited members of the General Assembly to :ftfty dollars each per cession, in addition to ,,heir per them and mileage, in full for postage, stationery, stamps, newspapers and all other incidental perquisites. - These perquisites amounted, at the last session of the General Assembly, to over fifty-fol-ir thousand dollars, which was about five hundred dollars to each member. We have provided that the fees and salaries of all officers under the Constitution shall not be increased or diminished during their terms; and that, with few exceptions, such fees and salaries shall be fixed before their terms commence. We have abolished all special laws in relation to fees, and put in force the general laws in such cases, and we have required the next General Assembly, by general uniform law, to provide and regulate fees of all persons holding county offices, and their successors, so as to reduce the same to a reasonable compensation, in not exceeding three grades in the different counties; and all laws fixing the fees of State, county and township officers shall terminate with the terms ofthose in office at the meeting of the first General Assembly. We have provided that State and county officers shall be paid reasonable salaries, out of the fees collected by them, and that the surpl,-,s be paid into the State or county treasury. Thus, fees and salaries may hereafter be regulated by the condition of the country, and we have allowed all oimcers now in oflice to serve out tkeir terms. AMENDMENTS TO THE CONSTITUTION. To save all controversy in a future Convention to amend the Constitution, we have fixed the qualification of its members; the oath of office they shall take; the manner of filling vacancies, and provided that amendments proposed by such Convbution, before they take effect, shall be ratified by the electors of the State. As a means of avo-!ding the neces sity and expense of such a Convention, we have provided that two-thirds of each house of the General Assembly may submit amend menl s to any one article of the Constitution; and it ratified by the people at the succeeding general election, such amendments shall con stitute part of the Constitution: REVENUE. We ha-ve retained the -valuable features of the revenue article in the Constitution of 1848, and have provided in addition that before sales of real et3tate for taxes are made, a return of -unpaid taxes sball be made to some general officer of the county, for collection, ,nth authority to sell for default on an order of a court of record, the object being to secure uniformity of sales, prevent abuses, and to provide a general and convedient mode by which persons interested may obtain information and pay assessments or taxes, or redeem from tax sales. We have forbidden the General Assembly from dischargidg any county, city, township or district from its proportiongte share of State taxes, and prohibited all commutations for such taxes; thus securin, in State taxation, equality of burdens for' common benefits; and we have repealed the two-mill tax. 0 MA 13180 DEAEX~ R()EJG.1 STTONR TO...CONVENTION. ~. AN............... PRCSteGoe hc satin boueyffyo ude thousan dollar wil the Globe, which is a thing absolutely necessary. In regard to the work of copying, it will be remembered that by a resolution a man was set to work copying the journals. That work will have to be measured, and these resolutions provide that the gentle men from Cook [Mr. Cameron and Mr. Medill] perform that work. I move the adoption of the resolutions. Mr. FOX. Mr. President: I move an amendment, that the Piesident be em powered to appoint three additional mera bers to aid those mentioned in the work of measuring. I have all confidence in the gentlemen named, but I think it a matter of considerable importance, and also one of such delicacy that they should have some assistance. I am certain it would lbe more congenial to the feelings of the Committee on Printing. Mr. MEDILL. Mr. President: I hope the Convention will add some members to the committee. I, for one, shal1 accept my portion of the labor proposed, with the utmost reluctance. It will occasion me loss of time and considerable incon venience to come down several times during the summer, for the purpose of measuring up matter. At the same time it places the committee in disagreeable personal relations to the parties in the' contracts, if they do their duty faithfully. I wish that additions may be made to supply the committee with a little "brass" in the performance of their work of saving the State treasury from over charges. Mr. TRUESDALE. Mr. President: I move to amend the resolution as follows: And that the gentleman from Sangamon [Mr. Hay], the gentleman from Fulton [Mr. Cummings] and the gentleman from Vermil ion [Mr. Tincher], be added to the names already mentioned as members of that com mittee. Will the gentleman accept the amend ment9 Mr. FOX. I prefer to leave the matter to the President. The PRESIDENT. The question is on the amendment offered by the gentleman from Rock Island [Mr. Tiusdale]. The amendment was agreed to. Mr. WRIGHT. Mr. President: I move to amend by adding the name of thegen tleman from Stephenson [Mr. Turner], who is chairman of the Committee on Printing and Binding. The amendment was agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is on the adoption of the resolution as amended. Mr. MOORE. Mr. President: I ask for a division of the resolutions. There is one that ought not to be adopted-the one relating to the senate chamber, and on the adoption of that I ask for the yeas and nays. The PRESIDENT. The question is on the adoption of the resolutions, except the one relating to the senate chamber. The resolutious were agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is o n the adoption of the resolution relating to the senate chamber. The yeas and nays were ordered. RfMr. MOORE. I have no objection to the latter part of the resolution, but the first part I take exception to. There are three or four men here who are employed as janitors of the State house the year round, and who ought to do that work as a part of what they are paid for. If, instead of that, we pass this resolution, STATIONERY TO C ONVENTION A ND PRICES THEREFOR. MNr. PARKS offered the following res olution, which was read by the Secretary, and agreed to: -Resolved, That the report of the Committee of Investigation on the accounts of the Secretary of State,"- together with the evidence taken, be sent to the Governor, with a request that he transmit the same to the General Assembly, at its next session, with the report of the Committee on Accounts and Expenditures of the Convention. fifty or a hundred thousand dollars will be charged to the State for doing that very thing [laughter]-I mean from fifty to one hundred dollars. I have been in the habit here of talking about thousands so long, that I slipped into that expression. This Convention have learned me to talk about large sums of money. Mr. TINCHER. Mr. President: That senate chamber will certainly have to be cleaned, or the State will suffer very great damage from the condition it is in. I know of no power to oblige, or dutv of the janitors to cleanse it after we adjourn. Mr. BUXTON. Does not the senate chamber belong to Sangamon county? The Secretary proceeded to call the roll. The result was then announced-yeas 14, nays 28 —as follows: Allen, of Alex. Buxton, Medill, Archer, Cody, Rice, Benjamin, Haines of Cook,Sharp, Bromwell, King, Snyder —14. Browning, McDowell, Skinner, Springer, Sutherland, Tincher, Underwood, Vandeventer, Washburn, Wheaton, Wright-28. English, Seholfield, Goodell, Sedgwick, I Goodhue, Truesdale, Haines of LakeTubbs, Hankins, Turner, Hanna, Wagner, Hayes, Wait McCoy, Wall, i Merriam, Wells, Neece, Wendling, Peirce, Whiting, Pillsbury, Wilson Poage, Mr. President-41., Robinson, REPORTING AND PRINTING INDEX-TRANS SCRIBING JOURNAL. Mr. TURNER. Mr. President: The Committee on Print ing and Bindinghave instructed me to report the following resolutions, an d ask that they be adopted. T he Secretary read th e resolu tions offer-ed by Mr. Turner, as f ollows: Resolved, That Hon. Joseph Medill and Hon. Daniel Cameron be, and they are hereby appointed a committee to measure the copy of the journals ordered to be made, also to measure all the work performed by the reporters, printers and binders for the Convention, and to adjust and certify the accounts for such copying, reporting, printing and binding, to the proper officers before payment of said accounts, and to perform all such other acts in relation to the copying, reporting, printing and binding as may be necessary to secure the speedy completion thereof, and a fair settlemnent therefor, and that said committee shall each receive the sum of six dollars per day, to be paid out of the State treasury, for every day actually spent in the perormance of said duties. .Resolved, That Messrs. Ely, Burnham & Bartlett be, and are hereby authorized and directed, to make a full and complete index to the debates of the Convention, at the same rate provided for in their contract as official stenographers for the official reporting, to be published with the debates, and that their accounts therefor be examined and certified to by the same persoms who shall examine and certify to other matters connected with the reporting and printing of this Convention. Resolved, That the Secretary of State be requested to cause the senate chamber to be thoroughly cleansed and swept as soon as this Convention shall have adjourned, and that the use of said chamber be extended to the clerk transcribing the journals of this Convention, until his task is accomplished. Mr. TURNER. Mr. President: There has been no provision for the indexto 467 So the portion of the resolution, referring to the senate chamber, was not agreed to. Mr. MEDILL. Mr. President: I desire to offer an additional report from the Printing and Binding Committee, in regard to the expense of transcribing the journals by the clerk employed some time ago, by this Convention, to do that work. The report sets forth the amount of work he has performed up to this time, with the amount of money due for such service. The Secr-etary read the report, as follows: The Committee on Printing and Binding, through Messrs. J. Medill and D. Cameron, having taken into consideration the following account of Clarence Matthews, for work performed in transcribing the journals of the Convention, certify to its correctness, and ask that it be allowed, viz: BOOK ":4A." Forty-nine lines to the page259 pages, 10 words to line........... 126,910 22', 20 " 1 "........... 21"560 2 " 36 " ".......... 3,528 65 30 9...........9,550 23 " 25 " ".......,.28,750 276,298 MAY 13, 1870. DEBATES AND PROCEEDI.NGS. 1865 EXTRA. PER DIBAI TO SECRET2,RIES' Mr. CARY. Mr. President: I move a reconsideration of the resolution whereby the Auditor of State was directed to issue his warraut on the Treasurer in fa vor of John Q. Harmon, Daniel Shepard and A. H. Swain for the sum of two dollars per day for the session of this Convention, as additional compensation for extra services.! The PRESIDENT. The motion to reconsider will be entered upon the journal, and can be disposed of after the the Chair has passed the business of the morning -hour. Mr. CUMMINGS. Mr. President Would it be in order to move to lay the motion to reconsider upon the table? The PRESIDENT. It is in order to move to lay it on the table. Mr. CARY. Mr. President: 1'eall for the yeas and Days. Mr. PERLEY. Mr. President: Can I say a word? The PRESIDENT. Not a word upon this motion. [Laughter.] The two motions, however, cannot at the present time be entertained. I Reports from standing committees.are still in order. WAYS. Harwood, Hay, Hildrup, Moore, Parker, Parks, Perley, Ross Sherrill, Abbott, Bayne, Craig, Cross, EldredZe, Forman, Fox, Fuller, Gamble. Hart, A-BSENT OR NOT VOTING. Allen of Crfd. Ai,iderson, Anthony, Atkins, Bowman, Brown, Bryan, Cameron, Cary, Church, Coolbaugh, Cummings, Dement, Ellis, BOOX " 13." 524 pages, 9 words to line............ 235,80o so 11 60 41 11 rulidg iUClU ded................................ 90,000 Making a total of -words.............. C 0'98 At 4y2 cents per folio................. t*b 94 1866 COSTITUTIOAL ()OYENTION FRIDAY, given. The city of Quincy is deeply interested in this measure, and not wishing to do an act of injustice, I have made this motion to reconsider, and hope that this Convention, as long as the interests of the State are not affected by it, will be willing to grant this act of justice to that city. Mr. ANTHONY. I desire to offer an amendment to the proposition, which I ,w ill read: Your committee also find that the following account of W. Turney, for the same work, from page 1 to 269, of book "A," is correct, and recommend that John Q. Harmon, who has indemnified said Turney, be allowed to draw the same, viz: 9 pages heavy figure work, 36 words a line....................... 15,552 8 pages light figure work, 14 words a line.......................... 5,376 6 pages light figure work, 18 words a line........................... 5,184 246 pages light figure work, 9 words a line............................ 106,272 132,384 At 4,q cents.......................... $59 57 The report was concurred in. Provided, farther, that all cities in this State which have created any debts for any public improvement, may have the benefits of the law of 1869, relating to subscriptions made in aid of railroads, and that a proportionate amount of State taxes be set apart to pay the debts of said cities. The PRESIDENT. The amendment is not in order. The Convention have not yet voted to reconsider the action by which it declined to enroll the section. Mr. HAY. Mr. President: While I have heretofore, as a general rule, opposedl the extension of the act of 1869, to new cases, believing it to have been a bad law, and that we ought not to extend the operation of it, I yet voted for this provision in regard to the subscription referred to of the city of Quincy to this Missouri railroad. I desire to explain the reason why I voted for it, and why I think this Convention should not object to placing that matter in the attitude which the friends of that measure desire it to assume. If the provision adopted in the article proposed by the gentleman from Grundy [Mr. Peirce] should become a part of the Constitution, it will not be in the power of the Legislature to make valid that subscription under any circumstances whatever. They cannot make it valid even as a corporate subscription by the city of Quincy. Now, I am willing, and I think all members of this Convention should be willing for the city of Quincy to have the right to come in here at the next session of the Legislature, and make that a valid corporate subscription, if not designing to bring it within the purview of the law of 1869, for I have no question but what any attempt to bring it within the law of 1869 would be unavailing with the next Legislature. They could only hope to make that a valid subscription by a proposition not to bring it within the operation of that law; and I understand gentlemen now propose to add a clause by which it shall not be. Mr. ANTHONY. Mr. President: I would like to ask the gentleman from Sangamon [Mr. Hay] if this subscription of five hundred thousand dollars from the city of Quincy is not to build a railroad in the State of Missouri? Mr. HAY. Mr. President: Why need the balance of the State care for that? If the people of Adams county or the city of Quincy desire to create this as a corporate indebtedness, not seeking aid from any other portion of the State in paying that debt, why should the members of this Convention care? .Mr. ANTHONY. Mr. President: Is not that five hundred thousand dollar debt made to aid in the building of a railroad in the State of Missouri? wMr. HAY. I so understand it. Mr. ANTHONY. Mr. President: Can the State of Illinois tax that railroad in the State of Missouri and get back any taxes? Mr. HAY. Mr. President: That is wholly immaterial. The parties interested do not propose, as I understand, to die vide the proposition they make by which they restrict the idea, so as to not bring it within the law of 1869. Mr. CHURCH. Mr. President: The least that can be conceded to this proposition, it seems to me, is a desire to give it a constitutional recognition, and thereby place it upon higher or different grounds than it would stand upon if it should receive the recognition of the General Assembly only. Now, it is stated that this railroad is out of the State. Then, sir, without say ing anything with reference to the sound ness of the decisions of the courts in this or other States, with respect to allowing municipalities to subscribe stock and loan its credit to private corporations and impose taxes therefor, I believe there is no case where it has been allowed ex. cept where the right is predicated upon the supposition that the municipality will be a stockholder directly interested in a private corporation, and that the railroad to be constructed will be in Dart, at least, within the geographical limits of the municipality that is to subscribe the stock. Without that, such a subscription can not be justified under any Constitu tion that we have known anything about. If a railroad sought to be built is to be within the limits of the municipality, or if certain highways are to be constructed by that municipality, and it is to retain a voice in the management of that pri vate corporation or railroad as stock holders, then the courts have said it may subscribe stock and impose taxes for the purpose of paying up its stock. This Quincy proposition, then, will be a recognition, by a constitutional expres sion of a higher character than any that can be passed by a Legislature, of the right of a municipality to subscribe or loan its credit in aid of a railroad or highway out of its limits.' Mr. SKINNER. Mr. President: It is with great delicacy I say a word on this question. I assure members, on the re. sponsibility of a member of this Conven tion, that all that is sought by this mo. tion, is to allow the General Assembly, in the exercise of its wisdom, to permit the city of Quincy to do what it seeks, and nothing more. The objection is raided that the object is to subscribe to a railroad company reaching Quincy from the west. lNoth. ing is said upon that subject whatever in the proposition —but it simply refers to a subscription to a railroad. N~o infer. ence can be raised, by implication, of any committal of the Convention whatever, to any objectionable principle. We submit, as delegates from the coun. ty of Adams, whether this Convention will permit the General Assembly to, inl its wisdom, allow the city of quincyr to do what it seeks to do —to aid the building up of a commercial mart, to aid in build ing up Chicago, and our whole State by railroad facilities. Every railroad we seek to build, ends practically in Chicago. Why do gentlemen oppose it?9 Where would N~ew York be, but for the vast ar teries of commerce that reach from the west, and benefit the whole country!? We are in your hands, gentlemen of the Convenltion —at your mercy and dis position, and we submitthe simple ques NEW RULE. Mr. CHURCH. Mr. Pre sident: I desir e to i ntroduce a resolution in the natur e of a rule, inasmuch as many members desire to go off on the train. The Secretary read the resolution offered by Mr. Church, as follows: Resolved, That no more original propositions to amend the Constitution, or motions to reconsider any vote heretofore taken by this Convention on such propositions, be entertained. Mr. SK3INNER. Mr. President: I move to lay that resolution upon the table. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the motion of the gentleman from Adams [Mr. Skinner]. Mr. SKINNER. Mr. President: I withdraw it. The resolution offered by Mr. Church was agreed to. INDEBTEDNESS OF CITY OF QUINCY. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon the motion of the gentleman from Clinton [Mr. Buxton] to reconsider the action of the Convention by which it declined to enroll a certain section of the schedule. Mr. CHURCH. I rise to a question of order. This is a motion to reconsider a vote upon a proposition to amend the Constitution, and I hope it will only be entertained under a suspension of the rules. . The PRESIDENT. The Chair will state to the gentleman from McHenry [Mr. Church] that this motion to reconsider was made early in the morning, and the Chair, under the rule, directed that it should be entered upon the journal, stating that it could not be disposed of because of pending questions. It is taken up, not as a new proposition, but as one heretofore entertained by the Chair, and the Chair does not regard it as within the rule just adopted. Mr. CHURCH. I was rot'aware that a motion had been made to reconsider, previous to the introduction of this rule. Of course it would not be competent to make a rule to apply to any motion heretofore made. The PRESIDENT. The standing rules make a motion to reconsider a privileged question, and therefore it is entertained. The motion is simply to call up and dispose of a motion heretofore entered upon the journal, and is in order. Mr. BUXTON~. Mr. President. I voted against the enrollment. of this section, for the reason that I believed it would extend to such indebtedness the provisions of the law of 1869, in regard to giving increase of taxes to pay railroad subscriptions. The friends of this measure have consented to add a proviso to the effect that no suchffect shall be CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION F.RIDAY9 1866 MA 13, 17.. DEATS......CEDX. 1867 Mr. HAYES. Mr. President: I move the previous question. Mr. PARKS. Mr. President: I wish to ask, before the vote is taken, what article in the new Constitution prevents the Legislature from legalizing such subscriptions? The PRESIDENT. The inquiry is in the nature of debate, and not in order. d The question is on the motion for the previous question. The motion of Mr. Hayes, for the previous question, was agreed to, and the main question ordered. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon reconsidering the action of the Convention, by which it declined to enroll section twenty-four of the schedule. Mr. BAYNE (in his seat). I call for the yeas and nays, Mr. President. The yeas and nays were ordered. The Secretary proceeded to call the roll. Mr. SPRINGER (when his name was called) said: Mr. President: I have paired with the gentleman from Lake [Mr. Haines]. The result was then announced-) eas, 33, nays 17-as follows: tion of loca ital, vital interests to your sense of right, and invoke your approval. Mr. BROWNING. Mr. Pr esident: I will add a word in addition to what has been said by my coll eague, and will repeat what I have soid in the p resence of the Convention heretofore-that th is proppositi on do es not, and cannot bv any possibility, affect pecuniarily any other part of the State than Quincy. If the vote rejecting the proposition be reconsidered, we propose to add to it a clause positively prohibiting the appropriation of any part of the taxes received under the law of 1869, from being applied to this work make a positive prohibition, so as to remove all objections heretofore urged-making it absolute that it shall not affect any other part of the State pecuniarily than Quincy. There is no local interest which that city has, in which the people of the city and county have their feelings so thoroughly enlisted as in this. It is the only thing of a local character that the delegates from Adams county have presented or asked to have indorsed, and I trust the Convention, in a spirit of liberality, will permit us to do what we ask to have done. We do not seek to get any constitutional recognition of this work. The proposition simply is, that nothing in the Constitution shall prevent the General Assembly from authorizing the expenditure. I grant that I feel an unusual interest in this matter. Yet I will take no excedtion, and will not permit my feelings to be affected in regard to any gentleman who votes against it. Still I confess I am incapable of comprehending the reason why gentlemen should vote against it. We only ask to have the matter left in the precise condition it would have been in had this Convention never assembled. Mr. BROMWELL. Mr. President: I would like to ask the gentleman from Adams [Mr. Browning] if he will have any objection to allowing an amendment to the proposition, so that the benefits sought to be conferred upon the city of Quincy may also be conferred upon the city of Mattoon? It seems that if the law of 1869 were excluded from its operation, there can be no objection to the proposition, and to allowing both Quincy and Mattoon to do what they please with their own money. ~ Mr. WALL. Mr. President:- I desire to state the reasons that induced me to vote against the proposition, and which, if not removed, will still induce me to. It is assumed that one of the provisions of the Constitution, to be submitted separately, will prevrent the legalizing of such unauthorized subscriptions. In my portion of the State there are similar casesfor instance, where the law only authorized subscriptions to the extent of one hundred ~housand dollars, but where the people have voted one hundred and fifty thousand dollars. It is assumed, I repeat, that the proposed section will prevent the Legislature from legalizing the fiftyr thousand dollars unauthorized subscription. Now, if this proposition is adopted, it will be urged that, because there is an except,ion made in the case of Quincy, all other cases not included will be excluded, and this will fulrnish potent argument against the power of the Legislature to legalize such excess of subscriptions:.' of th e amend ment, and on that I move the previous question. Mr. ALLEN, of Alexander. I hope the gentleman will withdraw that mo tion, or that it will be voted down. The motion for the p revi ous question was not agreed to. iMr. ALLEN, of Alexand er.M. Mr. President: I offer the following as an amend ment, by way of substitute. The Secretary read the substitute offe red by Mr. All en, of Alexander, as follows: Nothing in th is Constitution shall be so construed as to prevent the General Assembly from legalizing subscriptions to stock in railroad companies or other municipal corporations, heretofore m ade in e xcess of the provisions or without authority of existing laws, by a majority vote of the people, whene rights have accrued and money has been expended ontit o the f aith of the same. Mr. BROWNING. Mr. President: I will have to vote against the substitute, of course, for it e xclude s our proposition. Mr. BROMWELL. Mr. President: I have an amendment which I wish to o ffer to the principal proposition, to come in at the proper place. The Secretary read the amendment offered by Mr. Bromwell, as follows: And the city of Mattoon to create indebt. edness for the purpose of securing and erect ing machine shops in that city, for which the people of that city may have voted and given their assent prior to May 1st, 1870. The PRESIDENT. The question is on the amendment offered by the gentleman from Coles [Mr. Bromwell], to the amend ment offered by the gentleman from Clin ton [Mr. Buxton.] A division was ordered, when, there being eighteen in the affirmative and nineteen in the negative, the amendment offered by Mr. Bromwell was not agreed to. Mr. CARY. Mr. President: I did not feel disposed to say anything with regard to the amendment, but we are openng this whole question again. Therefore, I move to lay the whole subject on the table. Mr. HAYES. Mr. President: I would inquire whether that covers the article in the Constitution that we have recon sidered? The PRESIDENT, The rules having been suspended, and the proposition brought before the Convention for amend. mrent, it is competent to lay it on the table. Mr. HAYES. Mr. President: I sup. pose the gentleman does not intend to de-feat the part olf the Constitution already adopted, but only the amendment. Mr. BROWNING. Mr. President: I will ask for a division, so that the question may be first taken upon the substitute of the gentleman from Alexander [Mr. Allen], or upon the amendment of the gentleman from Clinton [Mr. Buxton] Trhe PRESIDENT. The Chair will put the question upon laying upon the table the substitute of the gentleman from Alexander [Mr. Allen]* Mr. ALLEN, of Alexander. Mr. Presi'dent: Before the question is put, I ask permission to make a correction in the substitute. The Secretary read the substitute offered by Mr. Allen, of Alexander, as corrected, as follows: Nothing in this Constitution shall be so construed as to prevent the General Assembly from legalizing sulbscriptions to stock fh rail At k ins, Fox, Benjamin Haines of Co'k Bromwell, Hlay, Browning, King, Bryan, McCoy, Buxton, McDowell, Cameron, Medi ll, Cody, Moore, Craig, Neece, Ellis, Parks, Forman, Pills bury, NAYS. Abbott, Gamble, Allen of Alex.,Goodell, Anderson, Hart, Bayne, Haves, Church, Hildrup, Fuller, Merriam, So the motion of Mr. Buxton, to recon- sider the vote by which the Convention declined to enroll section twenty-four of the schnedule, was agreed to. Mr. BUXTON. Mr. President: I move to add to the section the following proviso: But the same shall be paid, if at all, by the said city of Quincy alone, and by taxes to be levied upon the taxable property thereof: And providedfurther, that the General Assembly shall have no power in the premises that it could not exercise under the present Consetitution of this State. Mr. BROWNING. Mr. President: If it is in my power, I will accept that. The PRESIDENT. It is not in the power of any gentleman to pass upon the question if the Convention shall desire to do so. The question is on the motion to suspend the rules, in order that the proposition may be amended. A division was ordered. The Convention divided, when the motion was agreed to. Mr. BUXTON. I move the adoption i i i i i i DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS. 1867 MAY 13, 1870. YRAS. Sherrill, Snyder, Wall, Washburn, Whiting17. ENT, OR NOT VOTING. English, Beholfield, Goodhlue Sedgwick, Haines oi Llk, Springer, Hankins, Tubbs' Hanna, urn -r V'' Harwood, andev,,nter, Parker, Wagner, Perley, Wait, Peirce, Wheaton, Poaze. Wilson, Roinion, Mr. President-33. Allen of Crfd. Anthony, Archer, Bowman, Brown, Cary, Coolbaugh, Cross, Cummings, Dement, Eldredge, 186 COSIUIXLCNYXIi RD So the motion of Mr. Cary, to lay upon the table the original proposition and all amendments, was not agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is on the amendment proposed by the gentleman from Clinton [Mr. Buxton]. The amendment was agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is on enrolling the proposition as amended. S he Secretary read the proposition, as :amended, as follows: Nothing contained in this Constitution shall be so construed as to deprive the Gen eral Assembly of power to authorize the city of Quincy to create any indebtedness for railroad or municipal purposes for which the people of said city shall have voted, and to which they shall have given, by such vote their assent prior to the 13th day of December, 1869: Provided, that no such indebtedness so created. shall, in any part thereof. be paid by the State, or from any State revenue, tax or fund, but the same shall be paid, if at all, by said city of Quincy alone, and by taxes to be levied upon the taxable property thereof: And, provided further, that the General Assembly shall have no power in the premises that it could not exercise under the present Constitution of this State. Mr. BROMWELL. I now move the amendment which I had moved a few moments ago. Mr. CARY. I move to lay the amendment on the table. The motion was agreed to. Thile PRESIDENT. The question is on enrolling the proposition. Mr. ATKINS. I move the previous question. The motion for the previous question was agreed to, and the main question ordered. The yeas and nays were ordered and being taken, resulted-yeas 31, nays 16 — as follows: road companies by counties or other municipal corporations, heretofore made in excess of the provisions, or without authority of existing law, by a majority vote of the people, when rights have accrued and money been expended on the faith of the same. The yeas and nays were ordered, and, being taken, resulted-yeas 27, nays 24as follows: YEAS. Cross, Medill, Ellis, Merriam, Fuller, Moore, Goodell, Parks, Haines of Co'k,Perley, Hart, Sherrill, Harwood, Sutherland, Hay, Wheaton, HIildrup, Whiting-27. NAYS. ABSENT, OR NOT VOTING. Allen of Cr'fd., Haines of Lake, Springer, Anthony, Hankins, Tincher, Archer, Hanna, Tubbs, Bowman, Parker, Turner, Brown, Peirce, Vandeventer, Cody, Pillsbury, Wagner, Coolbaugh, Poage, Wait, Dement, Robinson, Wells, Eldredge, Scholfield, Wendling, English, Sedgwick, Mr. President-32. Goodhue, Snyder, tary is the motion of the gentleman from Jo Daviess [Mr. Cary] to reconsider th e action of the Convention by which i t a dopted a resolution. A motion to lay the motion to reconsider upon the table was made by the gentleman from Fulton [Mr' Cummings], which the Chair entertained, thereby cuttin g off any debate which the gentleman from Jo Daviess [Mr. Cary] may have desired. The Chair entertained the motion incorrectly, inas much as the motion to reconside r could, at that time, o nly be ente red u pon the journal. The gentleman from Jo Daviess [Mr. Cary] has the floor. Mr. CARY. Mr. President: The law provide htthe be s o that th e members of this onvention and the secretaries shall receive as compensation the sum of six dollars per day for their ser vices. Upo n th is law the Auditor of State draws h is wa rrants upon the Treasurer. Now, sir, we propose by this resolution, instead of corn plying with the law and paying these officers six dollars per day, to pay them, in contravention of the law, eight dollars per day. It is placing the Auditor in an embarrassing position. I believe he would have no right to draw these warrants, even if we passed the resolution. The secretaries have done their duty well, as I believe, but they sought for and accepted these situations knowing what they were to receive. We have just as much right to vot6 ourselves eight dollars per day as we have secretaries of this Convention, and I made this motion to reconsider, because I believed the resolution to be a violation of the law calling this Convention together. Mr. WAGNER. Mr. President: I move the previous question. The motion for the previous question was agreed to, and the main question ordered. The PRESIDENT The question is on, the motion of the gentleman from JoDavyess [Mr. Cary] to reconsider the action of the Convention by which it adopted the resolution allowing additional pay to the secretaries. The yeas and nays were ordered. The Secretary proceeded to call the roll. Mr. TINCHER (when his name was called) said: Mr. President: As we have about completed our labor in making a new Constitution, and expect people to obey its provisions and the laws made under it, I feel, notwithstanding I would~ like to vote the additional pay to the efficient secretaries, that I cannot go back upon the law, which is plain ill its provisions. I therefore vote "Aye."^ The result was then announcedmyeas~ 29;i nays, 25 —as follows: So the mnotio n of M r. Cary to lay upo n the table the substitute- offered by Mr. Allen, of Alexander, was agreed to. The PRESIDENT. The question is upon t he pmotion of the gentleman from JoDaviess [ir. Caryl, to lay the proposition and tlhe amendment thereto offered by the gentleman from Clinton [Mr. Buxton], upon the table. A division of the question has been called for; but it is impossible to divide it the amendment being so coupled with the proposition that they are not distinct and independent propositions. IThe yeas and nays were ordered, and being taken, resulted-yeas 21, nays 28as follows: Abbott, Atkins, Benjamin, Browning, Bryan, Buxton, Cameron, Craig, Cummings, 'Ellis, Forman, Allen of Alex.,Goodell, Bayne, Hart, Cary,. Hildrup, Church, Merriam, Cross, Perley, Gamble, Abbott, Fu ller Allen, of Alx.,Gamble, Bayne, Goodell, Bromwell, Hart, Cary, Earwood, Church, Hildrup, Cross, Perley, ABSENT, OR NOT VOTING. Allen of Crfd.,Fuller, Sedgwick, Anderson, Goodhue, Sharp, Anthony, Haines of Lake,Springer, Archer, Hankins, Tincher, Bowman, Hanna, Turner, Bromwell, Harwood, Vandeventer, Brown, Hayes, Wagner, Cody, Parker, Wait, Cool ach house, nor exceed the amount of reveue authorized by law to be raised in suell !me; and all appropriations, general or speial, requiring money to be paid out of the tate treasury, from funds belODgiD-' to thetate, shall end with such fiscal'quarter:. rovided, the State may, to meet casual de cits or failures in revenues, contract debts, ever to exceed in the aggregate two hunred and fifty thousand dollars; and money&, hus borrowed shall be applied to the purpose r which they were obtained, or to pay the ebt thus created, and to no other purpose nd no other debt, except for the purpose of epelling invasion, suppressing insurrection r defending the State in war (for payment oi hich the faith of the State shall be pledge4). all be contracted, unless the law authorizn- the same shall, at a general election', have been submitted to the people, and have reeived a majority of the votes cast for members of the General Assembly at such election. he General Assembly shall provide for the lication of said lfcw, for three months, at. , before the vote of the people shall bel taken upon the same; and provision Shall be made ai the time, for'the payment of the in — terest annually, as it shall accrue, by a tax levied for the purpose, or from other sources of revenue; which law, providing for the payment of such interest by such tax, shall. be irrepealable unt''I such debt be paid: And, rovided further, that the law levying the tax shall be submitted to the people with the law TIME OF MEETING AND GENERAL RULES. SEc. 9. The sessions of the General Assembly shall commence at twelve o'clocknoon, on the Wednesday, next after the:first Monday in January, in the year neat ensuing the CONSTITUTIOX OF 18O. 1873 f who shall, immediately after the organization , of the house, and before proceeding to other t business, open and publish the same i n the presence of a majority of each house. of the s General Assembly, who shall, for that pur3 pose, assemble in the hall of t he house of representatives. The person having the highest number of votes for either of said z offices shall be declared duly elected; but if two or more have an equal, and the highest number of votes, the Gene ra l Assembly sha ll, hby joint ballot, choos e one of suc h persons - for said office. Contested elections for all of said offices shall be determined by both houses of the General Assembly, by joint ballot, in such manner as may be prescribed by law. ELIGIBILITY. SEc. 5. No person shall be eligible to the office of Governor or Lieutenant Governor, who shall not have attained the age of thirty years, and been for five years next preceding his election a citizen of the United States and of this State. Neither the Governor, Lieutenant Governor, Auditor of Public Ac counts, Secretary of State, Superintendent of Public Instruction nor Attorney General, shall be eligible to any other office during the period for which he shall have been elected. GOVERNOR. SEC. 6. The supreme executive Dower shall be vested in the Governor, who shall take care that the laws be faithfully executed. SEc. 7. The Governor shall, at the com mencement of each -session, and at the close of his term of office, give to the General As sembly information, by message, of the con dition of the State, and shall recommend such measures as he shall deem expedient. He shall account to the General Assembly, and accompany his message with a statement of all moneys received and paid out by him from any funds subject to his order, with vouchers; and, at the commencement of each regular session, present estimates of the amount of money required to be raised by taxation for all purposes. SEc. 8. The Governor may, on extraordi nary occasions, convene the General Assem bly, by proclamation, stating therein the pur. pose for which they are convened; and the General Assembly shall enter upon no busi ness except that for which they were called together. SEC. 9. In case of a disagreement between the two houses with respect to the time of adjournment, the Governor may, on the same being certified to him by the house first mov ing the adjournment, adjourn the General Assembly to such time as he thinks proper, not beyond the first day of the next regular session. SEC. 10. The Governor shall nominate, and by and with the advice and consent of the senate (a majority of all the senators elected concurring, by yeas and nays), appoint all officers whose offices are established by this Constitution, or which may be- created by law, and whose appointment or election is not otherwise provided for;* and no such officer shall be appointed or elected -by the General Assembly. SEC. 11. In case of a vacancy, during the recess of the senate, in any office which is not elective, the Governor shall make a temporary appointment until the next meeting of the senate, when he shall nominate some person to fill such office;* and any person-so nominated who is confirmed by.the senate (a majority of all the senators elected concurring, by yeas and nays), shall hold his office during the remainder of the term, and until his successor shall be appointed and qualified. No person, after being rejected by the senate, shall be again nominated for the same office at the same sessio~ unless at the req~uest of the senate, or be appointed to the same office during the recess of the General Assembly. SEa. 12. The Glovernor shall have power to remove ally officer whom he may appoint, in case of incompetency, neglect of duty or malfeasance in office; and he may declare his office vacant, and fill the same as herein provided in other cases of vacancy. SEC. 13. The Governor shall have power to grant reprieves, commutations and pardons, after conviction, for all offenses, subject to such regulations as may be providedeby law relative to the manner of applying therefor. w SEX. 14. The Governor shallbe command fix a maximum price; and no member thereo - or other officer of the State shall be interested. - directly or indirectly, in such contract. But all such contracts shall be subject to the ap proval of the Governor, and if he disapproves - the same, there shall be a re-letting of the contract, in such manner as shall be pre. scribed by law. r SEC. 26. The State of Illinois shall never r be made defendant in any court of law or equity. SEc. 27. The General Assembly shall have no power to authorize lotteries or gift enter prises, for any purpose, and shall pass laws to prohibit the sale of lottery or gift enter prise tickets in this State. SEC. 28. No law shall be passed which shall operate to extend the term of any pub lic officer after his election or appointment. s SEC. 29. It shall be the duty of the Gene ral Assembly to pass such laws as may be necessary for the protection of operative miners, by providing for ventilation,when the same may be required, and the construction o f escapement-shafts,or such other appliances as may secure safety in all coal-mines, and to provide for the enforcement of said laws by such penalties and punishments as may be deemed proper. SEC. 30. The General Ass.,mbly may pro vide for establishing and opening roads and cartways, connected with a public road, for private and public use. SEC. 31. The General Assembly may pass laws permitting the owners or occupants of lands to construct drains and ditches, for agricultural and sanitary purposes, across the lands of others. SEC. 32. The General Assembly shall pass liberal homestead and exemption laws. SEC. 33. The General Assembly shall not appropriate out of the State treasury, or ex pend on account of the new capitol grounds, and construction, completion and furnishing of the State house, a sum exceeding, in the aggregate, three and a-half millions of dol lars, inclusive of all appropriations hereto fore mode,without first submitting the proposition for an additional expenditure to the legal voters of the State, at a general election, n or unless a majority of all the votes cast at such election shall be for the proposed addi tional expenditure. ARTICLE V. EXECUTIVE DEPARTMENT. SECTION 1. The executive department shall consist of a Governor, Lieutenant Governor, Secretary of State, Auditor of Public Accounts, Treasurer, Superintendent of Public Instruction and Attorney General, who shall each, with the exception of the Treasurer, hold his office for the term of four years from the second Monday of January next after his election, and until his successor is elected and qualified. They shall, except the Lieutenant Governor, reside at the seat of government during their term of office, and keep the public records, books and papers there, and shall perform such duties as may be prescribed by law. SEC. 2. The Treasurer shall hold his office for the term of two years, and until his successor is elected and qualified, and shall be ineligible to said office for two years next - after the end of the term for which he was elected. He may be required by the Governor t:) give reasonable additional security, and in default of so doing his office shall be deemed vacant. directly for any purpose whatever, except th sum of fifty dollars per session to each mem ber, which shall be in full for postage, sta tionery, newspapers, and all other incidenta expenses and perquisites; but no change shall be made in the compensa tion of mem e bers of the General Assembly during th term for which they may have been elected The pay and mileage allowed to each membel of the General Assembly shall be certified be the speakers of their respective houses, and entered on the journals, and published at the close of each session. SPECIAL LEGISLATION PROHIBITED. SEC. 22. The General Assembly shall no pass local or special laws in any of the follow ing enumerated cases, that is to say: for Granting divorces; Changing the names of persons or places Laying out, opening, altering and working roads or highways - Vacating roads, town plats, streets, alley~ and public grounds; Locating or changing county seats Regulatingcounty and township affairs; Regulating the practice in courts of jus tice; Regulating the jurisdiction and duties oe justices of the peace, police magistrates and constablesa Providing for changes of venue in civil and criminal casesD Incorporating cities, towns or villages, o changing or amending the charter of any town, city or village; Providing for the election of members of the board of supervisors in townships, incor porated towns or cities; Summoning and impanneling grand or petit juries; Providing for the management of common schools; Regulating the rate of interest on money; The opening and conducting of any elec tion, or designating the place of voting; The sale or mortgage of real estate belong ing to minors or others under disability; The protection of game or fish; Chartering or licensing ferries or toll bridges Remitting fines, penalties or forfeitures; Creating, increasing or decreasing fees, per centage or allowances of public officers, dur ing the term for which said officers are elected or appointed* Changing the law of descent Granting to any corporation, association or individual the right to lay down railroad tracks, or amending existing charters for such purpose; Granting to any corporation, association or individual any special or exclusive privilege, immunity or franchise whatever. In all other cases where a general law can be made applicable, no special law shall be enacted. SEC. 23. The General Assembly shall have no power to release or extinguish, in whole or in part, the indebtedness, liability or obligation of any corporation or individual to this State, or to any municipal corporation therein. IMPEA CHMENT. SX~. 24. The house of representatives shall have the sole power of impeachment, but a majority of all the members elected must concur therein. All impeachments shall be tried by the senate; and when sitting for that purpose, the senators shall be upon oath, or affirmation, to do justice according to law anda evidence. When the Governor of the State is tried, the Chief Just;.ce shall preside. Nqo person shall be convicted without the concurrence of two-thirds of the senators elected. But judgment in such cases shall nlot extend further than remov.al from office, and disqualification to hold any office of honor, profit or trust under the government of this State. The party, whether convicted or acquitted, shall, nevertheless, be liable to prosecution, trial, judgment and punishmnent according to law. MISCELLANEousB. SEC. 25. The General Assembly shall provide, by law, that the fuel, stationery and printing paper furnished for the use of the State, the copying, printing, binding and distributing the laws and journals, and all other printing ordered by the General Assembly, shall be let by contract to the lowest respqlEible bidder;* but the General Assembly shall; 469 ELECTION. SEC. 3. An election for Governor, Lieuten. ant Governor, Secretary ot State, Auditor of Public Accounts and Attorney General, shall be held on the Tuesday next after the first Monday of November, in the year of our Lord one thousand eight hundred and seventy-two, and every four years thereafter; for Superintendent of Public Instruction, on the Tuesday next after the first Monday of November, in the year one thousand eight hundred and seventy, and every four years thereafter, and for Treasurer, on the day last above mentioned, and every two years thereafter, at such places and in such manner as may be prescribed by law. SEc. 4. The returns of every election for the above named officers shall be sealed up and transmitted, by the returning officers to the Secretary of State, directed to "The Speaker of the House of Representatives," t i 8 6 CONSTITUTION OF 1870. 1873 1s CONSTITUTIOX OF 1S7O. THE SEAL OF STATE. SEC. 22. There shall be a seal of the State, which shall be called the " Great Seal of the State of Illinois," which shall be kept by the Secretary of State, and used by him, officially, as directed by law. FEES AND SALARIES. SEC. 23. The officers named in this article shall receive for their services a salary, to be established by law, which shall not be increased or diminished during their official terms; and they shall not, after the expiration of the terms of those in office at the adoption of this Constitution, receive to their own use any fees, costs, perquisites of office, or other compensation. And all fees that may hereafter be payable by law for any services performed by any officer provided for in this article of the Constitution, shall be paid in advance into the State Treasury. DEFINITION AND OATH OF OFFICE. Sh.Ec. 24. An office is a public position, created by the Constitution or law, continuing during the pleasure of the appointing power, or for a fired time, with a successor elected or appointed. An employment is an agency, for a temporary purpose, which ceases when that purrpose is accomplished. SEc. 25. All civil officers, except members of the General Assembly and such inferior officers as may be by law exempted, shall, before they enter on the duties of their respective offices, take and subscribe the following oath or affirmation: "I do solemnly swear (or affirm, as the case may be) that I will support the Constitution of the United States, and the Constitution of the State of Illinois, and that I will faithfully discharge the duties of the office of - ac cording to the best of my ability." And no other oath, declaration or test shall be required as a qualification. ARTICLE VI. fJUDICIAL DEPARTMENT. SECTION. 1. The judicial powers, except as in this article is otherwise provided, shall be vested in one supreme court, circuit courts, county courts, justices of the peace, police magistrates, and in such courts as may be created by law in And for cities and incorpo rated towns. Clark, Greene, Jerse, wi Calhoun and Chris - tian. Third District.-The counties of Sangamon, Macon, Logan, DeWitt, Piatt, Douglas,Champaign, Vermilion, McLean, Livingston, Ford, Iroquois, Coles, Edgar, Moultrie and Tazewell. Fourth District.-The counties of Fulton, McDonough, Hancock, Schuyler, Brown, Adams, Pike, Mason, Menard, Morgan, Cass and Scott. Fifth District.-The counties of Knox,Warren, genderson, Mercer, Henry, Stark, Peoria. Marshall, Putnam, Bureau, LaSalle, Grundy and Woodford. Sixth District.-The counties of Whiteside, Carroll, Jo Daviess, Steplhenson, Winnebago, Boone, McHenry, Kane, Kendall, DeKalb, Lee, Ogle and Rock Island. Seventh IDistrict.-The counties of Lake, Cook, Will, Kankakee and DuPage. The boundaries of the districts may be changed at the session of the General Assem bly next preceding the election for judges therein, and at no other time; but whenever such alterations shall be made, the same shall be upon the rule of equality of population, as nearly as county boundaries will allow, and the districts shall be composed of contiguous counties, in as nearly compact form as cir cumstances will permit. The alteration of the districts shall not affect the tenure of office of any judge. SEC. 6. At the time of voting on the adoption or this Constitution, one judge of the supreme court shall be elected by the electors thereof in each of said districts num bered two, three, six and seven, who shall hold his office for the term of nine years from the first Monday of June, in the year of our Lord one thousand eight hundred and seven tv. The term of office of judges of the su preme court, elected after the adoption of this Constitution, shall be nine years; and on the first Monday of June of the year in which the term of any of the judges in office at the adoption of this Constitution, or of the judges then elected, shall expire, and every nine years thereafter, there shall be an elec tion for the successor or successors of such judges, in the respective districts wherein the term of such judges shall expire. The chief justice shall continue to act as such until the expiration of the term for which he was elected, after which the judges shall choose one of their number chief justice. SEC. 7. From and after the adoption of this Constitution, the judges of the supreme court shall each receive a salary of four thou sand dollars per annum, payable quarterly, un til otherwise provided by law. And atter said salaries shall be fixed by law, the salaries of the judges in office shall not be increased or diminished during the terms for which said judges shall have been elected. SEC. 8. Appeals and writs of error may be taken to the supreme court, held in the grand division in which the case is decided, or, by consent of the parties, to any other grand division. SEC. 9. The supreme court shall appoint one reporter of its decisions, who shall hold his office for six years, subject to removal by the court. SEC, 10. At the time of the election for representatives in the General Assembly, happening next preceding the expiration of the terms of office of the present clerks of said court, one clerk of said court for each division shall be elected, whose term of office shall be six years from said election, but who shall not enter upon the duties of his office until the expiration of the term of his pred ecessor;t and every six years thereafter, one clerk of said court for each division shall be elected. SUPREME COURT. SEC. 2. The supreme court shall consist of seven judges, and shall have original jurisdiction in cases relating to the revenue, in mandamvs, and habeas corpus, and appellate jurisdiction in all other cases. One of said judges shall be chief justice; four shall constitute a quorum, and the concurrence of four shall be necessary to every decision. SEC. 3. No person shall be eligible to the office of judge of the supreme court unless he shall be at least thirty years of age and a citizen of the United States, nor unless he shall have resided in this State five years next preceding his election, and be a resident of the district in which he shall be elected. SEC. 4. Terms of the supreme court shall continue to be held in the present grand divisions at the several places now provided for holding the same; and until otherwise provided by law, one or more terms of said court shall be held, for the northern division, in the city of Chicago, each year, at such times as said court may appoint, whenever said city or the county of Cook shall provide appropriate rooms therefor, and the use of a suitable library, without expense to the State. The judicial divisions may be altered, increased or diminished in number, and the times and places of holding said court may be changed by law. SEC. 5. The present grand divisions shall be preserved, and be denominated Southern, Central and Northern, until otherwise provided by law. The State shall be divided into seven districts for the election of judges, and, until otherwise provided by law, they shall be as follows: First District.-The counties of St. Clair, Clinton, Washington, Jefferson, Wayne, Edwards, Wabash, White, Hamilton, Franklin, Perry, Randolph, Monroe, Jackson, Williamson, Saline, Gallatin, Hardin, Pope, Union, Johnson, Alexander, Pulaski and Massac. Second -District.-The counties of Madison, Bond, Marion, Clay, Richland, Lawrence, Crawford, Jasper, Effingham, Fayette, Montgomery, Macoupin, Shelby, Cumberland, Simae. 20. If th e office of Audi tor of Ai Public Accounts, Treasurer, Secretary of State, Attorney General or Superintendent of Public Instruction shall be vacated by death, resignation or otherwise, it shall be the duty of the Governor to fill the same by appointment, and the appointee shall hold his office until his successor shall be eleqted and qualified in such manner as may be provided by law. An account shall be kept by the officers ot the executive department, and of all the public institutions of the State, of all moneys received or disbursed by them, severally, from all sources and for every service performed, and a semi-annual report thereof be made to the Governor, under oath; and any officer who makes a false report, shall be guilty of perjury and punished accordingly. SEC. 21. The officers of the executive department, and of all the public institutions of the State, shall, at least ten days preceding each regular session of the General Assembly, severally report to the Governor, who shall transmit such reports to the General Assembly, together with the reports of the judges ,of the supreme court of defects in the Constitution and laws; and the Governor may at any time require information in writing, under oath, from the officers of the executive department and all officers and managers of State institutions, upon any subject relating to the condition, management and expenses of their respective offices. CONSTITUTION OF 1870. 1874 er-in-chief of the military,tnd naval forces I of the State (except when they shall be called into the service of the United States); and may call out the same to execute the laws, suppress insurrection and repel invasion. SEa. 15. The Governor and all civil olmcers of the State shall be liable to ii-npeachment for any misdemeanor in oflice. VETO. SF,c. 16. Every bill passed by the General Assembly shall, before it becomes a law, be presented to the Governor. If lie approve, he shall sign it, and thereupon it shall become a law; b t if he do not approve, he shall return it, with his objections, to the house in which il. shall have originated, which house shall enter the objections at large upon its journal,,ty4d proceed to reconsider the bill. If, then, two-thirds of the members elected agree to pass the'same, it shall be sent, together with the objections, to the other house, by which it shall likewise be reconsidered, and if approved by two-thirds of the members elected to that house, it shall become a law, notwithstandin the objections of the Governor. But in all such cases, the vote of each house khall be determine by yeas and nays, to be entered on the Journal. Any bill which shall not be returned by the Governor within ten days (Sunday-s excepted) after it shall have been presented to him, shall become a law in like manner as if he had signed it, unless the General Assembly shall, by their adjournment, prevent its return, in which case it shall be filed, with his objections, in the oflice of the Secretary of State, within ten days after such adjournment, or become a law. r LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR. Sim,c. 17. In case of the death, conviction on impeachment, failure to qualify, resignation, absence from the State, or other disabili-ty of the Governor, the powers, duties and emoluments of the ofuce for the residue ofthe term, or until the disability sb'all be- removed, shall devolve upon the Lieutenant Governor. SF,c. 18. The Lieutenant Governor shall be President of the Senate, and shall vote only when the Senate is equallv divided. The Senate shall choose a Presidint, pro tempore, to preside in case of the absence or impeachment of the Lieutenant Governor, or when he shall hold the oimce of Governor. SEc. 19. If there be no Lieutenant Governor' or if the Lieutenant Governor shall, for any f the causes specified in section seventeen, of this article, become incapable of performing the duties of the ofuce, the President ofthe 6enate shall act as Governor until the vacancy is filled or the disability removed; and if the President of the Senate, for any of the above named causes, shall become incapable of performing the duties of Governor, the same shall devolve upon the speaker of the house of representatives. OTIIER ST.&TE OFFICERS. .&PPELL,kTE COURTS. SiF,c. 11. After the year of our Lord one thousand'eight hundred and seventy-four, inferior appellate courts of uniform organization and jurisdiction, may be created in dis, tricts formed for that purpose, to which such appeals and writs of error as the General Assembly may provide may be prosecuted from circuit and other courts, and from which appeals and writs of error shall lie to the, supreme court, in all criminal cases, gnd cases in which a franchise or freehold or the validity of a statute is involved, and in such other cases as may be provided by law. Such hppellate courts shall be hebd by such number of'udges of the circuit courts, and at such CONSTITUTION OF 1870. jurisdiction in all matters of probate; settlement of estates of deceased persons; appointment of guardians and conservators, and sett lements or their accounts; in all matters relating to apprentices; and in proceedings for the collection of taxes and assessments, and such other jurisdiction as may be provided for by general law. SEC. 19. Appeals and writs of error shall be allowed from final determinations of county courts, as may be provided by law. Co ok county shall be he ld by one or more of the judges of the circuit or superior court of Cook county, as nearly as may be in alternation, as may be determined by said judges or provided by law. Said judges shall be, ex-offlcio, judges of said court. SEC. 27. The present clerk of the recorder's court of the city of Chicago, shall be the clerk of the criminal court of Cook county, during the term for which he was elected. The present clerks of the superior court of Chicago, and the present clerk of the circuit court of Cook county shall continue in office during the terms for which they were respectively elected; and thereafter there shall be but one clerk of the superior court, to be elected by the qualified electors of said county, who shall hold his office for the term of four years, and until his successor is elected and qualified. SEc. 28. All justices of the peace in the city of Chicago shall be appointed by the Governor, by and with the advice and consent of the senate (but only upon the recommendation of a majority of the judges of the circuit, superior and county courts), and for such districts as are now or shall hereafter be provided by law. They shall hold their offices for four years, and until their successors have been commissioned and qualified, but they may be removed by summary proceeding in the circuit or superior court for extortion or other malfeasance. Existing justices of the peace and police magistrates may hold their offices until the expiration of their respective terms. t imes and p laces, and i n su ch manner as may be provided by law; but no judge shall sit in r eview upon cases decided by him; nor shall said judges receive any additional compensation f or such services. CIRCUIT COURTS. SEC. 12. The circuit courts shall have original jurisdiction of all causes in law and equity, and such appellate jurisdiction as is or may be provided by law, and shall hold two or more terms each year in every county. The terms of office of judges of circuit courts shall be six years. SEC. 13. The State, exclusive of the county of Cook and other counties having a popula tion of one hundred thousand, shall be divided into judicial circuits, prior to the expiration of the terms of office of the present judges of the circuit courts. Such circuits shall be formed of contiguous counties, in as nearly compact form and as nearly equal as circumstances will permit, having due regard to business, territory and population, and shall not exceed in number one circuit for every one hundred thousand of population in the State. One judge shall be elected for each of said circuits by the electors thereof. New circuits may be formed and the boundaries of circuits changed by the General Assembly, at its session next preceding the election for circuit judges, but at no other time: Provided, that the circuits may be -equalized or changed at the first session of the General Assembly, after the adoption of this Constitution. The- creation, alteration or change of any circuit shall not affect the tenure of office of any judge. Whenever the business of the circuit court of any one or of two or more contiguous counties, containing a population exceeding fifty thousand, shall occupy nine months of the vear, the General Assembly may make of such county or counties a separate circuit. Whenever additional circuits are created, the foregoing limitations shall be observed. SEC. 14. The General Assembly shall provide for the times of holding court in each county; which shall not be changed. except by the General Assembly next preceding the general election for judges of said courts; but additional terms may be provided for in any county. The election for judges of the circuit courts shall be held on the first Monday in June, in the year of our Lord one thousand eight hundred and seventy-three, and every six years thereafter. SEC. 15. The General Assembly may divide the State into judicial circuits of greater population and territory, in lieu of the circuits provided for in section thirteen of this article, and provide for the election therein, severallv, by the electors thereof, by general ticket, of not exceeding four judges, who shall hold the circuit courts in the circuit for which they shall be elected, in such manner as may be provided by law. SEC. 16. From and after the adoption of this Constitution, judges of the circuit courts shall receive a salary of three thousand dollars per annum, payable quarterly, until otherwise provided by law. And after their salaries shall be fixred by law, they shall not be increased or diminished during the terms for which said judges shall be, respectively, elected;* and froml and after the adoption of this Constitution, no judge of the supreme or circuit court shall receive any other compendiation, perquisite or benefit, in any form whatsoever, nor perform any other than judicial duties to which may belong any emoluments. SEC. 17. No person shall be eligible to the office of judge of the circuit or any inferior ~ourt, or to membership in the aboard of county commissioners," unless he shall be at least twenty- five years of age, and a citizen of the United States, nor unless he shall have resided in this State five years next preceding his election, and be a resident of the circuit, county, city cities or incorporated town in which he shall be elected. PROBATE COURTS. SEC. 20. The General Assembly may provide for the establishment of a probate court in each county having a population of over fifty thousand, and for the election of a judge thereof,whose term of office shall be the same as that of the county judge, and who shall be elected at the same time and in the same manner. Said courts, when established, shall have original jurisdiction of all probate matters, the settlement of estates of deceased persons, the appointment of guardians a nd conservators, and settlements of their accounts, in all matters relating to apprentices, and in cases of the sales of real estate of deceased persons for the payment of debts. JUSTICES OF THE PEACE AND CONSTABLES. pSEC. 21. Justices of the peace, police magistrates and constables shall be elected in and for such districts as are or may be provided by law, and the jurisdiction of such justices of the peace and police magistrates shall be uniform. STATE'S ATTORNEYS. SEC. 22. At the election for members of the General Assembly in the year of our Lord one thousand eight hundred and seventy-two, and every four years thereafter, there shall be elected a State's attorney in and for each county, in lieu of the State's attorneys now provided by law, whose term of office shall be four years. COURTS OF COOK COUNTY. SEC. 23. The county of Cook shall be one judicial circuit. The circuit court of Cook county shall consist of five judges, until their number shall be increased, as herein provided. The present judge of the recorder's court of the citv of Chicago, and the present judge of the circuit court of Cook county, shall be two of said judges, and shall remain in office for the terms for which they were respectively elected, and until their successors shall be elected and qualified. The superior court of Chicago shall be continued, and called the superior court of Cock county. The General Assembly may increase the number of said judges, by adding one to either of said courts bor every additional fifty thousand inhabitants in said county pver and above a popula tion of four hundred thousand. The terms of office of the judges of said courts hereaf-t ter elected shall be six years. SEC. 24. The judge having the shortest unexpired term shall be chief justice of the court of which he is a judge. In case there are two or more whose' terms expire at the same time, it may be determined by lot which shall be chief justice. Any judge of either of said courts shall have all the powers of a circult judge, and may hold the court of which he is a member. Each of them may hold a different branch thereof at the same time. SEC. 25. The judges of the superior and circuit courts and the State's attorney in said county shall receive the same salaries, payable out of the State treasury, as is or may be paid from said treasury to the circuit judges and State's attorneys of the State, and such further compensation, to be paid by the county of Cook, as is or may be provided by law. Such compensation shall not be changed during their continuance in office. SEC. 26. The recorder's court of the city of Chicago shall be continued, and shall be called the " criminal court of Cook county." It shall have the jurisdiction of a circuit court, in all cases of criminal and quasi criminal nature, arising in the county of Cook, or that may be brought before said court pursuant to law; and all recognizances and appeals taken in said county in criminal and quasi criminal cases shall be returnable and taken to said court. It shall have no jurisdiction in civil cases, except in those on behalf of the people, and incident to such criminal or quasi criminal matters, and to dispose of unfinished business. The terms of said criminal court of GENERAL PROVISIONS. SEC. 29. All judicial officers shall be commissioned by the Governor. All laws relating to courts shall be general and of uniform operation; and the organization, jurisdiction, powers, proceedings and practice of all courts, of, the same class or grade, so far as regulated by law, and the for ce and e ffect of the process, judgments and decr ees of such courts, severally, shall be uniform. SEC. 30. The General Assemblv may, for cause entered on the journals, upon due notice and opportunity of defense, remove from offlce any judge, upon concurrence of threefourths of all the members elected of each house. All other officers in this article men. tioned, shall be removed from office on prosecution and final conviction for misdemeanor in office. SEC. 31. All judges of courts of record, inferior to the supreme court, shall, on or before the first day of June of each year, report in writing to the judges of the-supreme court such defects and omissions in the laws as their experience may suggest; and the judges of the supreme court shall, on or befbre the first day of January of each year, report in writing to the Governor such defects and omissions in the Constitution and laws as they may find to exist, together with appropriate forms of bills to cure such defects and omissions in the laws. And the judges of the several circuit courts shall report to the next General Assembly the number of days they have held court in the several counties composing their respective circuits the preceding two years. SEC. 32. All officers provided for in this article shall hold their offices until their successors shall be qualified, and they shall respectively reside in the division, circuit, county or district for which they may be elected or appointed. The terms of office of all such officers, where not otherwise prescribed in this article, shall be four years. All offlicers, where not otherwise provided for in this article, shall perform such duties and receive such compensation as is or may be provided bylaw Vacancies in such elective offices, shall be filled by election; but where the unexpired term does not exceed one year, the vacancy shall be filled by appointment, as follows: Of judges, by the Governor; of clerks of courts, by the:court to which the office appertains or by the judge or judges thereof; and of all such other ofices, by the board of supervisors or board of county commissioners, in the county where the vacancy occuris. SEC. 33. All process shall run, la the name of the people of the State of Zllinois; and all prosecutions shall be carried on In the name aced by the authority of thee Peo-ple of the State qt llinois, and conclude, Against the peace anr dignity of the same. "Population," lvhere ver used in this article, shall be determined 1875 COUNTY COURTS. ,,Ea. 18. There shall be elected ir- and for ,each county, one county judge and one clerk of the county court, whose terms of office shall be four yearr,. But the General Assembly may create districts of two or more contiguous counties, in each of which shall be elected one _judge who shall take the place of and exercise the powers and jurisdiction of county judges in-such districts. County courthall be courts of record, and shall have original 186CNTTTINO 80 by te net pecedng ensu of hisStat orjugglers, inn-keepers, grocery-keeperrs, liquor Sc 2 ocut,ct,twsi,sho of the United States. ~~dealers, toll-bridges, ferries, insurance, tele- dsrc rohrmncplcroain hl ,graph and express interests or businesq,,i vend-bealwdtbeoeidbeinaymn ARTICLE VII. ~ers of patents, and persons or corporations nro o n ups oa mut nid SUFFRAGE. ~~owning or using franchises and privileges, inmgeitninetdesinteageae SECTOX.1. Eerypersn hvingresdedsuch manner as it shall, from time to time,ecednfieprcnuontevleoth in tis tat on yer, n te cunt nietydirect by general law, uniform as to the class txhepoet hri,t eacrandb day, ad i th elctin dstrct hiry dysupon which it operates. tels sesetfrSaeadcut nextpreedig ay eecton herin,whowas SEc. 2. The specification of the objects txs rvost h nurn fsc n an lecor n hisStae o te frstdayofand subjects of taxation shall not deprivedetdes Ayconyciyscolds Apri, i theyea ofour ordone houandthe General Assembly of the power to require tito te uiia oprto,icr eigh hudredandfort-eiht, r otaind aother subjects or objects to be taxed, in suchrigayidbens,aafrsi,sllbe cerifiateof atualiatin bfor an cortmanner as may be consistent with the princi-foeoattetmofdigiopovdfo of record in this State prirtlh frtdypes of taxation fixed in this Constitution. tecleto fadrc nultxsfiin of anury,in he ea ofourLor on thu- SEC. 3. The property of the State, coun-'tpathineetosuhdbasifal sandeigt hndrd ad sveny, r wo sallties and other municipal corporations, both de n lot a n icag h rn be amal ciize ofthe nitd Sate, aovereal and personal, and such other property.as cplteefwti wnyyasfo h the ge f twntyoneyear, sall e eti-may be used exclusively for agricultural andtieocotatnthsae tied to voe at suchelection.horticultural societies, for school, religious, Thsscinsalntbcosretope Szc.2. ll ote shal h bybalot. cemetery and charitable purposes, may be vn n ony iy onhp colds S~e 3.Elctos sal, i al csesexcptexempted from taxation; but such exemption Into te uiia oprto,fo treaon,felny o brachof te pace beshall be only by general law. In the assess- isigterbnsi opinewt n pnvlegd fom rret urig teirattn-ment of real estate incumbered by publicvoeothpepewhcmahaebeha dan~~~~~~~~~ce teetos n ngigt n e asement, any depreciation occasioned by pirt h d to fti osiuini turnng rom he ame Andno lectr sallsuch easement may be deducted in the -valua- usac faylw rvdn hrfr be oligd t domiltarydut ontheday oftion of such property. ATCEX da~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~~~SC.TeGngeral AssTembyshalpo S~c.4. o eecto shll e demedto avevide, in all cases where it may be necessary ScIN1 onwcut hl efre lost hi residnce in his Stte yraono sell real estate for the non-payment oforetbihdbthGeea Aseby or f tis tat, o inthemiltar ormunicipal or other purposes, that a return of wihwl euetecut rcute,o States ~~~~~~~such unpaid taxes or assessments shall beeihrothmfrmwihishlbetkn Szc.. Nosoldir, saman r inmade to s~ome general officer of the countytolscotns haforhnrdsur mrn, having authority to receive State and county mls o hl n onyb omdo be demeda reidet ofthisStat in taxes; and there shall be no sale of said escnet;nrsal'n ieteefps quene ofbeig sttiond terei. cose-property for any of said taxes or assessments,wihnlsthntnmlsoanconyea S~c.6. o prso shll b elcte orap-but by said officer, upon the order or judg- o h onyo onispooe ob i ment of some court of record. vdd pointed t any offie in thisStaE,Civlo z. 5. The right of redemption from all Sc.N onysalb iie,o miliary wb isnota ctizn o th Untedsales of real estate, for the Non~payment ofnaeayprstiknteermwihu Stats, nd ho sallnothav resdedin histaxes or special assessments of any character,sumtigteqetotoavtoftepo Stat on yer net peceing he lecionwhatever, shall exist in favor of owners andpioftecut,nrulsamaoiyoal S~c.7. Te GeeralAssmblyshal pas peiod of not less than two years from such qeto,salvt o h ae law exludng ro th riht f uffageper.sles thereof. And the General Assembly Sc.3Thrshlbentertrstik sons cnvicte of inamous rimes.shall provide, by law, for reasonable notice toenfoanconyulsamaoiyoth ARTICLE VIII. ~be given to the owners or parties interested, vtr iigi uhtrioysalptto EDUCATION. ~~by publication, or otherwise, of the fact of frsc iiin n otrioysalb S~cTON 1 TheGenral ssemly sallsessments, and when the time of redemption temjnyo h oeso h onyt provde throug an eficiet sste ofshall expire: Provzided, that occupants shallwhcitiprpsdtheddd Buth fre scool, werby ll hilre ofthi Sttein all cases be served with personal notice prins tiknofadaddt nte inayreceve goo comon'schol edca-before the time of redemption expires. cut,o omdi hl ri atit tion. ~~~~~~~~SEc. 6. The General Assembly shall have nwcut,salb odnfr n bie S~c.2. Al lnds,monys o oter pop-no power to release or discharge any county,topyitprprinothinetdeso ert, dnatd, raned r rceied or chol, ity, township, town or district whatever, orthcontfrmwihihabentkn colege seinay o uivesit puposs, ndthe inhabitants thereof, or the propertyCONTSAS plie totheobjctsforwhih sch ift orof taxes to be levied for State purposes, nor Sc.4Nocutsetsalbreoe grants were made. ~~shall commutation for such taxes be author,utltepitt hchi spooe ob Sxc.3. Nithr th GeeralAssmblynorized in any form whatsoever.reoe shlbefxdipusacoflw couny, ity ton, ownsip,schol is- SEc. 7. All taxes levied for State purposesanamjrtoftevtroftecut,t tric, o oter pbli coportion shll vershall be paid into the State Treasury. poie ygnrllw hl aevtdi makeanyappopritio orpay romany SEc. S. County authorities shall never fvro t eoa osc on;adn churh o setaran urpoe, r t he.p up-ceed seventy~five cents per one hundred dol,pro hl oeo uhqeto h a portor sstai anyschol, cadey, smi-lars valuation, except for the payvment of in ntriddithconysxmnh, adi nar, cllee, nivrsiy o oter itearyordebtedness existing at the adoption of thisceigsc elcin Thqusinoth scintiic nsttuton ontolld b an chrchCoinstitutioni, unless authorized by a vote ofreoaofacutsetsalntbofee or sctaian enoinaton hateer;northe people of the county.sumtethnocintnyastoavt by th e next preceding census of this State or of the United States. ARTICLE VII. SUFFR AGE. SoaCTpiON.t1. Every person having resided in this State one year, in the county ninety days, and in the el ection district thirty days next preceding rofsy e lectio n therein, who was an elector in this State on the first day of April, in the year of our Lord one thousand eight hundred and forty-eight, or obtained a certificate of naturalization before any court of record in this State prior to the firt day ,of January, in the; year of our Lord one thousaind eight hundred and seventy, or who shall be a male citize n of the United States, above the age of twenty-one years, shall be entitled to vote at such election. SEC. 2. All v otes shall be by ballot. SEC. 3. Electors shall, in all cases except treas-on, felony or breach of the peace, be privileged from arrest during their attendance at elections, and in going to and returning from the same. And no elector shall be obliged to do military duty on the days of election, except in time of war or public danger. SEC. 4. No elector shall be deemed to have lost his residence in this State by reason of his absense on the business of the United States or of this State, or in the military or naval service of the United States. SEC. 5. No soldier, seaman or marine, in the army or navy of the United States, shall be deemed a resident of this State in consequence of being stationed therein. SEC. 6. No person shall be elected or appointed to any office in this State, civil or military, who is not a citizen of the United States, and who shall not have resided in this State one year next preceding, the election or appointment. SEC. 7. The General Assembly shall pass laws excluding from the right of suffrage persons convicted of infamous crimes. ARTICLE, V-III. EDUCATION. SECTION 1. The General Assembly shall provide a thorough and efficient system of free schools, whereby all children of this State may receive a good common.school educawtion. SE3c. 2. All lands, moneys or other property, donated, granted or received for school, college, seminary or university purposes, and the proceeds thereof, P-hall be faithfully applied to the objects for which such gifts or grants were made. SEmC. 3. Neither the General Assembly nor any county, city, town-, township, school district, or other public corporation, shall ever make any appropriation- or pay from any public fund whatever, an'ything in aid of any church or sectarian purpose, or to help support or sustain any school, academy, seminary, college, university or other literary or scientific institution controlled by any church or sectarian denomination whatever;nor SEC. 12. No county, city, township, school district or other municipal corporation, shall be allowed to become indebted in any manne r or for any purpos e to an amount, inclu d itg existing indebtedness, in the aggregate, exceeding fivn e per centum on the value of the taxable property therein, to be ascertained by the last assessment for State and county taxes, previous to the incurring of such indebtedness. Any county, city, school district or other municipal corporation, incurring any indebtedness, as aforesaid, sh —ll, before or at the time of doing [so, provide for the collection of a direct annual tax sufficient to pay the interest on such debt as it falls due, and also to pay and discharge the principal thereof. within twenty years from the time of contracting the same. This section shall not be construed to prevenlt any county, city, township, school district or other municipal corporation, from issuing their bonds in compliance with any vote of the people which may have been hade prior to the adoption of this Constitution in pursuance tDf any law providing therefor. ARTICLE X. COUNTIES. SECTION I. No new county shall be formed' or established by the General Assembly, which will reduce the county or counties, or either of them, from which it shall be taken, to less contents than four hundred square; miles; nor shall any county be formed of less contents * nor shall,,ady fine thereof pass within less than ten miles of any county seat of the county or counties proposed to be di-vided. SEa. 2. No county shall be divided, or have any p~art stricken therefrom, without submittingi the question to a vote of the peo — ple of the county, nor unless a majority of all the legal voters of the county voting on th&, quiestio'n? shall vote for the same. SEc. 3. There shall be no territory stricken from any county unless a majority of the voters living in such territory shall petition, for sulch division; and no territory shall be added to any county without the consent of the majority of the voters of-the countyV to, which it is proposed to be added. But theportion so stricken off and added to another county, or formed in whole or-in part into a new county, shall be holden for, andD obliged to pay, its proportion of the indebtedness of the county from which it has been taken. COUNTY SEATS. SEC. 4. No county seat shall be removed until the point to which it is proposed to be removed shall be fixed in pursuance of law, and a majority of the voters of the county, to be ascertained in such manner as shall be provided by general law, shall have voted in favor of its removal to suichpoiit * and no person shall vote on such question who has not resided in the county si~x months, and in the election precinct ninety days next preceding such election. The question of the removal of a county seat shall not be oftener CONSTITUTION OF 1870. 1876 R]MVENU.H. BECTIO'4 1. The General Assembly shall provide such revenue as may be needful, by levying a tax, by valuation, so that every person and corporation shall pay a tax in proportion to the value of his, her or its property_such value to be ascertained by some person or persons, to be elected or ap-pointed in such manner as the General Assem. bly shall direct, and not otherwise; but the General Assembly shall have power to tax ddlers, auctioneers, brokers, hawkers, mer-Nants, commission merchant, showmen, CONSTITUTION OF 1S7O. 1877 money, and require security, to the full amount thereof, to be deposited with the State treasurer, in United States or Illinois State stocks, to be rated at ten per cent. below their par value; and in case of a depreciation of said stocks to the amount of ten per cent. below par, the bank or banks owning said stocks shall be required to make up said deficiency, by depositing additional stocks. And s' id laI,w shall also provide for the recording of the names of all stockholders in such corporationzs, the amount of stock held by each, the time of any transfer thereof, and to whom such transfer is made. may be in office at the meeting of the fi,'st General Assembly aft(er the adoption of this Cseceti actuhtioi in d, th: the General Assembly shall, by general law, uniform in its operation, provide for and regulate the fees of said in officer-s and their successors, so as to reduce the same to a reasonable compensation for services actually rendered. But the General Assembly may, by general law, classify the counties, by population, into not more than three classes, and regulate the fees according to class. This article shall not be construed as depriving the General Assembly of the Dower to reduce the fees of existing officers. SEC. 13. Every person who is elected or appointed to an)y office- in this State, who shall be paid in whole or in part by fees, shall be required by law to make a semi-annual report, under oath, to some officer to be designated by law, of all his fees and emoluments. ARTICLE XI. SEC. 6. At the first election of county judges under this Constiotution, there shall be elected i n e ach of th e co unties in this State, not under township org anization, th r ee offlcers, who shall be styled "Thae Board of County Commissioners," who shall hold sessions fbr the transaction of county business as shall be provided by law. One of said commissioners shall hold his office for one year, one for two years, and one for three years, to be determined by lot; and every year thereafter one such officer shall be elec. ted in each of said counties for the term of three years. SEC. 7. The county affairs of Cook county shall be managed by a board of commissionors of fifteen persons, ten of whom shall be elected from the city of Chicago, and five from towns outside of said city, in such manner'as may be provided by law. CORPORATIONS. SECTION 1. No corporation shall be created by special laws, or its charter extended, changed or amended, except those for charitable, educational, penal or reformatory purposes, which are to be and remain under the patronage and control of the State; but the General Assembly shall provide, by general laws, for the organization of all corporations hereafter to be created.. SEC. 2. All existing charters or grants of special or exclusive privileges, under which organization shall not have taken place, or which shall not have been in operation within ten days from the time this Constitution takes effect, shall thereafter have no validity or effect whatever. SEC. 3. The General Assembly shall provide, by law, that in all elections for directors or managers of incorporated companies, every stockholder shall have the right to vote, in person or by proxy, for the number of shares of stock owned by him, for as many persons as there are directors or managers to be elected, or to cumulate said shares, and give one candidate as many votes as the num ber of directors, multiplied by the number of his shares of stock, shall equal, or to distribute them on the same principle among a,i; many candidates as he shall think fit; and such directors or managers shall not be elected in any other manner. SEC. 4. No law shall be passed by the General Assembly, granting the right to construct and operate a street railroad within an y c ity, town, or incorporated village, without requiring the consent of the local authorities having the control of the street or highway proposed to be occupied by such street railroad. COUNTY OFFICERS AND THEIR COMPENSATION. SEC. 8. In each county there shall be elected the following county officers: County judge, sheriff, county clerk, clerk of the circuit court (who may be ex-oq#cio recorder of deeds, except in counties having sixty thousand and more inhabitants, in which counties a recorder of deeds shall be elected at the general election in the y ear of our Lord one thousand eght hundred and seventy-two) treasurer, surveyor and coroner, each of whom shall enter upon the duties of his office, respectively, on the first Mo1nday of December after their election; and they shall hold their respective offices for the term of four years, except the treasurer, sheriff and coroner, who shall hold their offices for two years and until their successors shall be elected and qualifled. SEC. 9. The clerks of all the courts of record, the treasurer, sheriff, coroner and recorder of deeds of Cook county, shall receive, -as their only compensation for their services, salaries to be fixed by law, which shall in no case be as much as the lawful compensation of a judge of the circuit court of said county, and shall be paid, respectively, only out of the fees of the office actually collected. All fees, perquisites and emoluments (above the amount of said salaries) shall be paid into the county treasury. The number of the deputies and assistants of such officers shall be determined by rule of the circuit court, to be entered of record, and their compensation shall be determined by the county board. SEC. 10. The county board, except as provided in section nine of this article, shall fix the compensation of all county officers, with the amount of their necessary clerk hire, stationery, fuel and other expenses; and in all cases where fees are provided for, said compensation shall be paid only out of, and shall in no in!tance exceed, the fees actually collected. They shall not allow either of them more per annum than fifteen hundred dollars, in counties not exceeding twenty thousand inhabitants; two thousand dollars in counties containing twenty thousand and not exceeding thirty thousand inhabitants; twenty-five hundred dollars in counties containing thirty thousand and not exceeding fifty thousand inhabitants; three thousand dollars in counties containing fifty thousand and not exceeding seventy thousand inhabitants; thirty-five hundred dollars in counties containing seventy thousand and not exceeding one hundred thousand inhabitants; and four thousand dollars in counties containing over one hundred thousand and not exceeding two hundred and fifty thousand inhabitants; and not more than one thousand dollars additional compensation for each additional one hundred thousand inhabitants: Provided, that the compensation of no officer shall be increased or diminished during his term of office. All fees or allowances by them received, in excess of their said compensation, shall be paid into the county treasury. SEC. 11. The fees of township officers, and of each class of county officers, shall be uniform in the class of counties to which they respectively belong. The compensation herein provided for shall apply only to officers hereafter elected;* but all fees established by special laws shall cease at the adoption of this Constitution, and such officers shall receive only such fees as are provided by general law. vsaC. 12. All laws fixing the fees of State, county and township officerss shall terminate with the terms, respectively, of those who BA6NKS. SEc. 5. No State bank shall hereafter be created, nor shall the State own or be liable for any stock in any corporation or joint stock company or association for banking purposes, now created, or to be hereafter created. No act of the General Assembly, authorizing or creating corporations or associations, with banking powers, whether of issue, deposit or discount, nor amendments thereto, shall go into effect or in any manner be in force, unless the same shall be submitted to a vote of the people at the general election next succeeding the passage of the same, and be approved by a majority of all the votes cast at such election for or against such law. SEC. 6. Every stockholder in a banking corporation or institution shall be individually responsible and liable to its creditors, over and above the amount of stock by him or her held, to an amount equal to his or her respective shares so held, for all its liabilities aceruing, while he or she remains such stockholder. SEC. 7. The suspension of specie payments by banking institutions, on their circulation, created by the laws of this State, shall never be permitted or sanctioned. Every bankiin g association, now or which may hereafter be organized under the laws of this State, shall make and publish a full and accurate quarterly statement of its affairs (which shall be certified to, under oath, by one or more of its officers), as may be provided by law. SEC. 8. If a general banking law shall be enacted, it shall provide for the registry and countersigning, by an officer of State, of all bills or paper credit, designed to circulate as RAILROADS. SEC. 9. Every railroad corporation organ ized or doing business in this State, under the Jaws or authority thereof, shall have and naintain a public office or place in this State for the transaction of its business, where transfers of stock shall be made, and in which shall be kept, for public inspection, books, in which shall be recorded the amount of capi tal stock subscribed, and by whom, the names of the owners of its stock, and the amounts owned by them respectively; the amount of stock paid in, and by whom; the transfers of said stock;,the amount of its assets and lia bilities, and the names and place of residence of its officers. The directors of every rail road corporation shall annually make a re port, under oath, to the Auditor of Public Accounts, or some officer to be designated by law, of all their acts and doings, which re port shall include such matters relating to railroads as may be prescribed by law. And the General Assembly shall pass laws enforc ing by suitable penalties, the provisions of this section. SEC. 10. The rolling stock, and all other movable property belonging to any railroad company or corporation in this State, shall be considered personal property, and shall be liable to execution and sale in the same manner as the personal property of individuals; and the General Assembly shall pass no law exempting any such property from execution and sale. SEDC. 11. No railroad corporation shall consolidate its stock, property or franchises with any other railroad corporation owning a parallel or competing line; and in no case shall anV consolidation take place except upon public notice given, of at least sixty days, to all stockholders, in such manner as may be provided by law. A majority of the directors of any railroad corporation now incorporated or hereafter to be incorporated by the laws of this State, shall be citizens and residents of this State. SEc. 12. Railways heretofore constructed or that may hereafter be constructed in this State, are hereby declared public highways, and shall be free to all persons for the transportation of their persons and property thereon, under such regulations as may be prescribed by law. And the General Assembly shall, from time to time, pass laws establishing reasonable maximum rates of charges for the transportation of passengers and freight on the different railroads in this State. Src. 13. No railroad corporation shall issue any stock or bonds, except for money, labor or property actually received and applied to the purposes for which such corporation was created; and all stock-dividends, and other fictitious increase of the capital stock or indebtedness of any such corporation, shall be void. The capital stock of no railroad corporation shall be increased for any purpose, except upon giving sixty days' public notice, in such manner as may be provided by law. SEC. 14. The exercise of the power and the right of eminent domain, shall never be so construed or abridged as to preventthe taking, by the General Assembly, of the property and franchises of incorporated companies already organized, and subjecting them to the public necessity, the same as of individuals. The right of trial by jury shall be held inviolate in all trials of claims for compensation, when, in the exercise of the said right of eminent domain, any incorporated company shall be interested either for or against the exercise of said right. SEC. 15. The General Assembly shall padss laws to correct abuses and prevent unjust discrimination and extortion in the rates of freight and passenger tariffs on the different railroads in this State, and enfrce suc~ laws I 187 CONSTITUTION OF 1810. I And the enumeration of the remedies herein i named shall not be construed to deny to the General Assembly the power to prescribe by aw such other and further remedies as may be found expedient, or to deprive any person of existing common law remedies. SEC. 7. The General Assembly shall pass laws for the inspection of grain, for the protection of producers, shippers and receivers of grain and produce. ARTICLE XIV. AMENDMENTS TO THiE CONSTITUTION. SECTION 1. Whenever two-thirds of the members of each house of the General Assembly shall, by a vote entered upon the journals thereof, concur that a Convention is necessary to revise, alter or amend the Constitution, the question shall be submitted to the electors at the next general election. If a majority voting at the election vote for a Convention, the General Assembly shall, at the next session, provide for a Convention, to consist of double the number of members of the senate, to be elected in the same manner, at the same places, and in the same districts. The General Assembly shall, in the act calling the Convention, designate the day. hour and place of its meeting, fix the pay of its members and officers, and provide for the payment of the same, together with the expenses necessarily incurred by the Convention in the performance of its duties. Before proceeding the members shall take an oath to support the Constitution of the United States, and of the State of Illinois, and to faithfully discharge their duties as members of the Con. vention. The qualification of members shall be the same as that of members of the senate, and vacancies occurring shall be filled in the manner provided for filling vacancies in the General Assembly. Said Convention shall meet within three months after such election, and prepare such revision, alIteration or amendments of the Constitution as shall be deemed necessary, which shall be submitted to the electors for their ratification or rejection, at an election appointed by the Convention for that purpose, not less than two nor more than six months after the adjournment thereof; and unless so submitted and approved by a majority of the electors voting at the election, no such revision, alterations or amendments shall take effect. SEC. 2. Amendments to this Constitution may be proposed in either house of the General Assembly, and if the same shall be voted for by two-thirds of all the members elected to each of the two houses, such proposed amendments, together with the yeas and nays of each house thereon, shall be entered in full on thei r respective journals and said amendments shall be submitted to the electors of this State for adoption or rejection, at the next election of members of the General Assembly, in such manner as may be prescribed by law. The proposed amendments shall be published in full at least three months preced in g the election, and if a majority of the electors voting at said election shall vote for the proposed amendments, they shall become a part of this Constitution. But the General Assembly shall have no power to propose amendments to more than one article of this Constitut on at the same session, nor to the same article oftener than once in our years. ARTICLE XII. MILITIA. SECTION 1. The militia of the State of Illinois shall consist of all able-bodied male persons, resident in the State, between the ages ,of eighteen and forty-five, except such persons as now are or hereafter may be exempted by the laws of the United States, or of this State. SEC. 2. The General Assembly in providing for the organization, equipment and discipline of the militia, shall conform, as nearly as practicable, to the regulations for the government of the armies of the United States. SEC. 3. All militia officers shall be commissioned by the Governor, and may hold their commissions for such time as the General Assembly may provide. SEC. 4. The militia shall, in all cases except treason, felony or breach of the peace, be privileged from arrest during their attendance at musters and elections, and in going to and returning from the same. SEC. 5. The military records, banners and relics of the State, shall be preserved as an enduring memorial ofthe patriotism and valor of Illinois, and it shall be the duty of the General Assembly to provide by law for the safe keeping of the same. SEc. 6. No person having conscientious scruples against bearing arms, shall be compelled to do militia duty in time of peace: Provided, such person shall pay an equivalent for such exemption. ARTICLE XIII. WAREHOUSES. SECTION 1. All elevators or storehouses where grain r or other property is stored for a compens ation, wh ether the property stored be kept separate or not, are declared to be public warehouses. SEC. 2. The owner, lessee or manager of each and every public warehouse, situated in any town or city of not less than one hundred thousand inhabitants, shall make weekly statements under oath, before some officer to be designated by law, and keep the same posted in some conspicuous place in the office of such warehouse, and shall also file a copy for public examination in such place as shall be designated by law, which statement shall correctly set forth the amount and grade of each and every kind of grain in such warehouse, together with such other property as may be stored therein, and what warehouse receipts have been issued and are, at the time of making such statement,,outstanding therefor; and shall, on the copy posted in the warehouse, note daily such changes as may be made in the quantity and grade of grain in such warehouse; and the different grades of grain shipped in separate lots, shall not be mixed with inferior or superior grades without the consent of the owner or consignee thereof. SEC. 3. The owners of property stored in any warehouse, or holder of a receipt for the same, shall always be at liberty to examine such property stored, and all the books and records of the warehouse, in regard to such property. SEC. 4. All railroad companies and other common carriers on railroads, shall weigh or measure grain at points where it is shipped, and receipt for the full amount, and shall be responsible for the delivery of such amount to the owner or consignee thereof, at the place of dstination. SEC. 5. All railroad companies receiving and transporting grain, in bulk or otherwise, shall deliver the same to any consignee thereof, or any elevator or public warehouse to which it may be consigned, provided such consignee or the elevator or public warehouse can be reached by any track owned, leased or used, or which can be used by such railroad companies; and all railroad companies shall permit connections to be made with their track, so that any such consignee and any public warehouse, coal bank or coal yard may be reached by the cars on said railroad. SEC. 6. It shall be the duty of the General Assembly to pass all necessary laws to prevent the issue of false and fraudulent warehouse receipts, and to give full effect to this article of the Constitution, which shall be liberally construed so as to protect produrs and shippers. CA-AL. The Illinois a nd Mi chigan Canal shall never be sold or lea sed until t he specific pro position for the sale or lease thereof shall first have been submitted to a vote of the people of the State, at a general election, and have. been approved by a majority of all the votes polled at such election. The General Assembly shall never loan the credit of the State or make appropriations from the treasury thereof, in aid of railroads or canals: Provided, that any surplus earnings of any canal may be appropriated for its enlargement or extension. SCHEDULE. That no inconvenience may arise from the alterations and amendments made in the Constitution of this State, and to carry the same into complete effect, it is hereby ordained and declared: SECTION 1. That all laws in force at the adoption of this Constitution, not inconsistent therewith, and all rights, actions, prosecutions, claims and contracts of this Stafe, individuals or bodies corporate, shall continue to be as valid as if this Constitution had not been adopted. SiEc. 2. That all fines, taxes, penalties and forfeitures, due and owing to the State of Illinois under the present Constitution and laws, shall inure to the use of the people of the State of Illinois under this Constitution. SErc. 3. Recognizances, bonds, obligations, and all other instruments entered into or executed before the adoption of this Constitution, to the people of the State of Illinois, to any State or county officer Qr public body, shall remain binding and valid, and rights and liabilities upon the same shall continue; and all crimes and misdemeanors shall be tried and punished as though no change had been made in the Constitution of this State. SFc. 4. County courts, for the transaction of county business in counties not having adopted township organization, shall continue in existence and exercise their present jurisdiction until the board of county commissioners provided in this Constitution is organized in pursuance of an act of the General Assembly; and the county courts in all other counties shall have the same power and jurisdiction they now possess, until otherwise provided by general law. SEc. 5. All existing courts which are not in this Constitution specifically enumerated shall continue in existence and exercise their present jurisdiction until otherwise provided by law. SEC. 6. All persons now filling any office or appointment shall continue in the exercise of the duties thereof, according to their respective commissions or appointments, un less by this Constitution it is otherwise directed. SEC. 7. On the day this Constitution is submitted to the people for ratification, an election shall be held for judges of the su preme court in the second, third, sixth and seventh judicial election districts designated in this Constitution, and for the election of three judges o~f the circuit court in the county of Cook, as provided for in the article of this Constitution relating to the judiciary, at which election every person entitled to vote according to thc terms of this Constitution, shall be allowed to vote) ~nd the election SECTIONS SEPARATELY SUBMITTED. ILLINOIS CENTRAL RAILROAD. No contract, obligation or liability whatever of the Illinois Central railroad company to pay any money into the State treasury, nor any lien of the State upon, or right to tax property of said company, in accordance with the provisions of the charter of said company, approved February tenth, in the year of our Lord one thousand eight hundred and fifty-one, shall ever be released, suspended, modified, altered, remitted, or in any manner diminished or impaired by legislative or other authority; and all moneys derived from said company, after the payment of the State debt, shall be appropriated and set apart for the payment of the ordinary expenses of the State government, and for no other purposes whatever. reached ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ IORT byteEPRESEadralod.eerNTAhsTostttonIONfr.h eetino MINORITY REPRESENTATIOn. The house of representatives shall consist of three times the number of the members of the senate, and the term of office shall be two years. Three representatives shall be elected t f 1 e I rI e d r t e r n d d d s 11 e 8d e e CONSTITUTION OF - 180. 1878 in each senatorial district, at the general election in the year of our Lord one thousand eight hundred and seventy-two, and everv two vears thereafter. In all elections of rep,sentdtives aforesaid, each qualified voter may cast as many votes for one candidate as there are representatives to be elected, or may distribute the same, or equal parts thereof, among the candidates, as he shall see fit; and the candidates highest in votes shall be declared elected. MUNICIPAL SUBSCRIPTIONS TO RAILROADS OR PRIVATE CORPORATIONS. No county, city, town, township, or other municipality, shall ever become subscriber to the capital stock of any railroad or private corpo tion, or make donation to, or loan its credtat in aid of, such corporation: P,t-ovided, however, that the adoption of thus article shall not be construed as affecting the right of any such inunic!Dality to make such subscriptions where the -same have been authorized, under ex!St!Dg laws, by a vote of the eople of such municipalities prior to p' such doption. by adequate penalties, to the extent, if nee-essary for that purpose, of forfeiture of their property and franchises. CONSTITUTION OF 1870. shall be otherwise conducted, returns made clerks, as is now provided by law, to tbe Sec- dred copies thereof; duly certified, shall be clerks, as is now provided by law, to the Sec retary of State, within twenty days after the election; and the returns of the said votes shall, within five days thereafter, be examined and canvassed by the Auditor. Treasurer and Secretary of State, or any two of them, in the presence of the Governor, and proclamation shall be made by the Governor, forthwith, of the result of the canvass. psEC. 12. If it shall appear that a majority of the votes polled are for the new Constitution, then so much of this Constitution as was not separately submitted to be voted on by articles and sections shall be the s upreme law of the State of Illinois, on and after Monday, the eighth day of August, in the year of our Lord one thousand eight hundred and seventy; but if it shall appear that a majority of the votes polled were against the new Constitution, then so much thereofas was not separately submitted to be voted on by articles and sections, shall be null and void. If it shall appear that a majority of the votes polled are, for the sections relating to railroads, in the article entitled "corporations," sections nine, ten, elevwn, twelve, thirteen, fourteen and fifteen, relating to railroads in the said article, shall be a part of the Constitution of this State; but if a majority of said votes are against such sections, they shall be null and void. If a majority of the votes polled are for the article entitled counties, such article shall be a part of the Constitution of this State, and shall be substituted for article seven in the present Constitution entitled counties; but if a majority of said votes are against such article, the same shall be null and void. If a majority of the votes polled are for the article entitled "warehouses," such article shall be a part of the Constitution of this State; but if a majority of the votes are against said article, the same shall be null and void. If a majority of the votes polled are for either of the sections, separately submitted, relating respectively to the Illinois Central railroad, minority representation, municipal subscriptions to railroads or private corporations, and the canal, then such of said sections as shall receive such majority shall be a part of the Constitution of this State; but each of said sections, so separately submitted, against which respectively there shall be a majority of the votes polled, shall be null and void: Provided, That the section relating to minority representation shall not be declared adopted unless the portion of the Constitution not separately submitted to be voted on by articles and sections shall be adopted; and in case said section relating to minority representation shall become a portion of the Constitution, it shall be substituted for sections seven and eight of the legislative article. If a majority of the votes cast at such election shall be for a three-fifths vdte to remove a county seat, then the words "a majority "shall be stricken out of section four of the article on counties, and the words "three-fifths" shall be inserted in lieu thereof, and the following words shall be added to said section, to wit: "But when an attempt is made to remove a CO~sTITUTIN TI~xET.county seat to a point nearer to the centre of cmesto o rvddb a ni h N~~~~~w ~~~a county, then a majority vote only shall be ajuneto h is eso fteGn For ll te prposiionson tis tcketnecessary." if the foregoing proposition shall ea seby fe h dpino hsCn whic arenot anceed ith nk o penil;not receive a majority of the votes, as afore- siuin and gaist ll popoitins hichareso an-said, then the same shall have no effect what- Sc.2.Tepeetjdeothcici celed. ~~~~~~~~~ever.corofCoconysalcniutohl For the new onstitution.SEC. 13. Immediately after the adoptionthcicicorofLkconyutlohr Forthesecion reatng o rilradsin heof this Constitution the Governor and Secre-wiepoiebylw articleentitle corportions.tary of State shall proceed to ascertain and 23 WhntiCosiuinsalb For he aticl enttledcounies.fix the apportionment of the State for mem-adpe,adtkefetathsurmla For te aricle ntited waehoues.b ers of the first house of representatives underofteSaeoIliosthtwmiltxpo For thee-ifts vte o rmov contythis Constitution. The apportionment shallvietobanulyasseancolce seats. ~~~~~~~~be based upon the federal census of the yearupnecdolrswrhotaalprpry Forthesecionreltig t th Ilinos Cn-of our Lord one thousand eight hundred andinadtotoalohrtx,asstfrhi tral railroad tax. ~~~seventy, of the State of Illinois, and shall bearilfiteoftenweitnCottu Forthesecionreltin tominrit rere-made strictly in accordance with the rulestinshlcestobasesdatrteya sentation. ~~~~~~~and principles announced in the article on the o u odoetosn ih ude n For he ecton rlatng o muicial ub-legislative department of this Constitution: svny scritios t ralrods o prvat copor-tPovided, that in case the federal census SC 4 ohn otie nti osi tions. ~~~~~~~~~aforesaid can not be ascertained prior to Fri- tto hl es osre st erv h For he sctio reltingto te caal. day, the twenty-third day of September, in the GnrlAsml fpwrt uhrz h Eac f sid ickts hallbe ouned s ayear of our Lord one thousand eight hundredciyoQunytcraeayidbensfo vot cat fr ech ropsiton heron otand seventy, then the said apportionment rira rmncplproe o hc h cancledwit in orpencl, nd gaist achshall be based on the State census of the year pol fsi iysalhv oe,adt propsiton o cnceed;andretrnstheeofof our Lord one thousand eight hundred and wihte hl aegvn ysc oe s'hal b mad acordnglyby he jdge ofsixty-fiive, in accordance with the rules andthiasetpirtththrenhdyo election. ~~~~~~~principles aforesaid. The Governor shall, onDcebrinteyaoforLronthu SEC.ii.Theretuns f te whle oteor before Wednesday, the twenty-eighth day sn ih ude n it-ie rvdd cast an ofthe ote fo th adotio orre-of September, in the year of our Lord one thou- ta osc netdes ocetd hl jecionof hisCostiutin, ndforor gaistsand eight hundred and seventy, make official i n atteefb adb h tt,o theartcle an setios rspetivly ubmt-announcement of the said apportionment, n-foanSttreeu,txofund,bt-h ted,shal bemadeby he sverl contyder the great seal of the State;- and one hun-saesalbpadifaal,bthsadct 1879 shall be otherwise conducted, returns made and certificates issued, in accordance with existing laws, except that no registry shall be required at said election: Provided, that at said election in the county of Cook no elector ,shall vote for more than two candidates for circuit.udge. If, upon canvassing the votes for and against the adoption of this Constitu tion, it shall appear that there has been polled a greater number of votes against than for it, then no certificates of election shall be issued for any of said supreme or circuit judges. SEc. 8. This Constitution shall be submitted to the people ot the State of Illinois for adoption or rejection, at an election to be held on the first Saturday in July, in the year of our Lord one thousand eight hundred and seventy, and there shall be separately submitted at the same time, for adoption or rejection, Sections nine, ten, eleven, twelve, thir',een, fourteen and fifteen, relating to railroads in the article entitled corporations; The article entitled counties; The article entitled warehouses; The question of requiring a three-fifths vote to remove a countv seat; The section relating to the Illinois Central railroad; The section in relation to minority representation; The -section relating to municipal subscriptions to railroads or private corporations, and.The section relating to the canal. Ever-Y person entitled to vote under the provisions of this Constitution, as defined in the article in relation to "suffrage," shall be entitled to vote for the adoption or rejection of this Constitution, and for or against the articles, sections and questions aforesaid, separately submitted; and the said qualified electors shall vote at the usual places of voting, unless otherwise provided; and tlle said elections shall be conducted and returns there,ofmade according to the laws now in force regulating general elections, except that no -registry hall be required at said election: .Provided, however, that the polls shall be kept open for the reception of ballots until ,6unset of said dav of election. SF,c. 9. The secretary of State shall, at least twenty days before said election, cause to be delivered to the county clerk of each 4county, blank poll-books, tally-lists, and forms ,of return, and twice the number of properly prepared printed ballots for the said-ele-ction that there are voters in such county-tbe expense whereof shall be audited and paid as ,other public printing ordered by the Secretary of State is, by law, required to be audited and paid; and the several county clerks shall, at least five days before said election, cause to be distributed to the board of election, in each election district, in their respective counties, said blank poll-books, tally-lipts, forms of return, and tickets. SEa. 10. At the said election the ballots shall be in the following form: dred copies thereof, duly certified, shall be forthwith transmitted by the Secretary of State to each county clerk for distribution. SEC. 14. The districts shall be regularly numbered, by the Secretary of State, commencling with Alexander county as number one, and proccedinz then northwardly through the State, an(f terminating with the county of Cook; but no county shall be numbered as more, than one district, except the county of Cook, which shall constitute three districts, each em ry contained in the now ex ve districts of said county. ay after the first Mondav in November, in the year of our Lord one thosand eight hundred and seventy, the members of the first house of representatives under this Constitution shall be elected according to the apportionment fixed and announced as aforesaid, and shall hold their oflices for two years, and until their successors shall be elected and qualified. SEC. 15. The senate, at its first session under this Constitution, shall consist of fifty members, to be chosen as follows: At the general election held on the first Tuesday after the first Monday of November, in the - a, of our Lord one thousand eight hundred n seventy, two senators shall be elected in districts where the term of senators expire on the first Monday of January, in the year of our Lord one thousand eight hundred and seventy-one, or where there shall be a -vacancy, and in the remaining districts one senator shall be. elected. Senators so elected shall hold their office two years. SEc, 16. The General Assembly, at iti3:flrst session held after the adoption of this Constitution, shall proceed to apportion the State for members of the senate and house of representatives, in accordance with the provisions of the article on the legislative department. SEC. 17. When this Constitution shall be ratified by the people, the Governor shall forthwith, after having ascertained the fact, issue writs of election to the sheriffs of the several counties of this State, or in case of vacancies, to the coroners, for'the election of all the officers, the time of wbose election is fixed by this Constitution or schedule; and it shall be the duty of said sheriffs or coroners to give such notice of the time and place of said election as is now prescribed by law., SEC. 18. All laws of the State of Illinois, and all official writings, and the executive, legislative and judicial proceedings, shall be conducted, preserved and published in no other than tlij English language. SEC. 19. Tfie General Assembly shall pass all laws necessary to carry into effect the pro-visio,Ds of this Con stitution. SEC. 20. The circuit clerks of the different counties having a population over sixty thousand, shall continue to be recorders (ex offit-io) for their respective counties, under this Constitution, until the expirati f their respective terms. or SEC. 21. The judges of all courts of record in Cook county shall, in lieu of any salary provided for in this Constitution, receive the NEW CONSTITUTION TICKET. For all the propositions on this ticket which are Dot canceled with ink or pencil; and against all propositions which are so canceled. For the new Constitution. For the sections relating to railroads in the article entitled corporations. For the article entitled counties. For the article entitled warehouses. For a three-fifths vote to remove county seats. For the section relating to the Illinois Central railroad tax. For the section relating to minority representation. For the section relating to municipal subscriptions to railroads or private corporations. For the section relating to the canal. Eae' —. of said tickets shall be counted as a vote cast for each proposition thereon not canceled with ink or pencil, and against each proposition so canceled; and returns thereof i3hall be made accordingly by the judges of -,election. Simc. 11. The returns of the whole vote cast, and of the votes for the adoption or rejection of this Constitution, and for or against the articles and sections respectively submitted, shall be made by the several county CONSTITUTION OF 1870. of Quincy alone, and by taxes to be levied upon the taxable property thereof: And, provided, further, that the General Assembly shall have no power in the premises that it could not exercise under the present Constitution of this State. SEC. 25. In case this Constitution and the articles and sections separately submitted, be adopted, the existing Constitution shall cease in all its provisions; and in case this Constitution be adopted, and any one or more of the articles or sections separately submitted be defeated, the provisions of the existing Constitution, if any, on the same subject, shall remain in force. SEC. 26. The provisions of this Constitution required to be executed prior to the adoption or rejection thereof, shall take effect and be in force immediately. Done in Convention, at the capitol, in the city of Springfield, on the thirteenth day ot May, in the year of our Lord one thousand eight hundred and seventy, and of the independence of the United States of America the ninety-fourth. In witness whereof, we have hereunto subseribed our names. JOSEPH IPARKER, SAMUEL (J. PARKS, PELNG S. PERLEY, J. S. POAGE, EDWARD Y. RICE, JAMES P. ROBINSON, LEWIS W. Ross, WILLIAM P. PEIRCE, N. J. PILLSBURY, JOH.N SCIHOLFIELD, JAMES M. SHARP, HENRY SHERRELL, WM. H. SNYDER, O. C. SKINNER, WESTEL W. SEDGWICK, CHARLES F. SPRINGER, JOHN L. TINCEER, C. TRUESDALE, HENRY TUBBS, THOMAS J. TURNER, WM. H. UNDERWOOD, WM. L. VANDEVENTER, HIENFRY W. WELLS, GEORGE E. WAIT, GEORGE W. WALL, R. B. SUTHERLAND, D. C. WAGNER, GEORGE R. WENDLING, CHAS. WHEATON, L. D. WHITING, JOHN H. WILSON, ORLANDO H. WRIGHT. CHARLES HITCHCOCKI, Pres't. WILLIAM J. ALLEN, JOHN ABBOTT, JAMES C. ALLEN, ELLIOTT ANTHONY, WM. R. ARCHER, HENRY I. ATKINSS, JAMES G. BAYNE, R. M. BENJAMIN, H. P. H. BROMWELL, O. ESH. BR OWNING, WM. G. BOWMAN, SILA-S L. BRYAN, H. P. BUXTON, DANIEL CAMERON, WILLIAM CARY, LAWRENCE S. CHURCI, HIRAM H. CODY, W. F. COOLBAUGIt, ALFRED M. CRAIG, ROBERT J. CROSS, SAM'L P. CUMMINGS, G. S. ELDREDGE, JAMES W. ENGLISH, JOHN DEMENT, DAVID ELLIS, FERRIS FORMAIANI JESSE C. Fox, MILES A. FULLER, JOHN P. GAMBLE, ADDISON GOODELL, JOHN C. HAINES, ELIJAH M. HAINES, JOHN W. HANKINS, R. P. HANNA, JOSEPH lHART, ABEL HARWOOD, MILTON HAY, S.AMUEL SNOWDEN HAYEs, JESSE S. HILDRUP, ROBERT A. KING, JAS. MCCOY, CHARLES E. McDOWELL, WILLIAM C. GOODIER JOSEPH MEDILL, CLIFTON H. MOORE, JONATHAN MERRIAM, Attest: JOHN Q. HARMON, Secretary. DANIELr SHEPARD, First Ass't Secretary A. H. SWAIN, Second Ass't Secretary. 1880 f CONSTITUTION ADOPTED IN 1848. erected; but if not, then within the limits of the county or counties, district or districts, out of which the same shall have been taken, unless he shall have been absent on the public business of the United States, or of this State; and who, moreover, shall not have paid a State or county tax. SEc. 4. No person shall be a senator who shall not have at,tained the age of thirty years; who shall not be a citizen of the United States, five years an inhabitant of this State, and one year in the county or district in which he shall be choseni immediately preceding his election, if such county or district shall have been so long erected; but if not, then within the limits of the county or counties, district or districts, out of which the same shall have been taken, unless he shall have been absent on the public business of the United States, or of this State, and shall not,; moreover, have paid a State or county tax. oSEC. 5. The senators, at their first session herein provided for, shall be divided by lot, as near as can be, into two classes. The seats of the first class shall be vacated at the expiration of the second year, and those of the second class at the expiration of the fourth year; so that one-half thereof, as near as piossible, may be biennially chosen forever thereafter. t SEC. 6. The senate shall consist of twentyfive members, and the house of representatives shall consist of seventv-five member s, until the population of the State shall amoui il to one million of souls, when five members may be added to the house, and five additional members for every five hundred thousand inhabitants thereafter, until the whole num ber of representatives shall amount to one hundred; after which the number shall neither be increased nor diminished; to be apportioned among the several counties according to the number of white inhabitants. In all future apportionments, where more than one county shall be thrown into a representative district, all the representatives to which said counties may be entitled shall be elected by the entire district. SEC. 7. No person elected to the General Assembly shall receive any civil appointment within this State, or to the senate of the United States, from the Governor, the Governor and senate, or from the General Assembly, during the term for which he shall have been elected; and all such appointments, and all votes given for any such member for any such office or appointment, shall be void; nor shall any member of the General Assembly be interested, either directly or indirectly, in any contract with the State, or any county thereof, authorized by any law passed during the time for which he shall have been elected, or during one year after the expiration thereof. SEC. 8. In the year one thousand eight hundred and fifty-five, and every tenth year the re after, an enumeration of all the inhabitants of this State shall be made, in such manner as shall be directed by law; and in the year eighteen hundred and fifty, and every tenth year thereafter, the census taken by authority of the government of the United States shall be adopted by the General Assembly as the enumeration of this State; and the number of senators and representatives shall, at the first regular session holden after the returns herein provided for are made, be apportioned among the several counties or districts to be established by law, according to the number of white inhabitants. SEC. 9. Senatorial and representative districtets shall be composed of contiguous terrntory bounded by county lines; and only one o senator allowed to each senatorial, and not b PREAMBLE. We, the people of the State of Illinois, grateful to Almighty God for the civil, political and religious liberty which He hath so long permitted us to enjoy, and looking to Htim for a blessing upon our endeavors to secure and transmit the same unimpaired to succeeding generations, in order to form a more perfect government, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the State of Illinois. more than three r e pres entatives to any rep resentative district: Provided, that cities and towns containidg the requisite popula tion may be erected into separate districts. SEc. 10. In forming senatorial and representative districts, counties containing a populatio n of not mo re than o ne-fourth ove r the existing ratio, shall obrin separate district s, and the excess shall be given to the nearest county or counties not having a senator or representative, as the case may be, which has the largest white population. SEC. 11. The first session of the General Assemblv sl;all commence on the first Monday of January, one thousand eight hundred and forty-nine;and forever after, the General Assembly shall meet on the first Monday of January next ensuing the election of the members thereof, and at no other period, unless as provided by this Constitution. SEC. 12. The senate and house of representatives, when assembled, shall each choose a speaker and other officers (the speaker of the senate excepted). Each house shall judge of the qualifications and election of its members, and sit upon its own adjournments. Two-thirds of each house shall constitute a quorum; but a smaller number may adjourn from day to day, and compel the attendance of absent miembers. SEC. 13. Each house shall keep a journal of its proceedings, and publish them. The yeas and nays of the members on any ques (ion shall, at the desire of any two of them, be entered on the journals. SEC. 14. Any two members of either house shall have liberty to dissent and protest against any act or resolution which they may think injurious to the public, or to any individual, and have the reasons of their dissent entered on the journals. SEC. 15. Each house may determine the rules of its proceedings, punish its members for disorderly behavior, and, with the concurrence of two-thirds of all the members elected, expel a member, but not a second time for the same cause; and the reason for such expulsion shall be entered upon the journal, with the names of the members voting on the question. SEe. 16. When vacancies shall happen in either house, the Governor, or the person exercising the powers of Governor, shall issue writs of election to fill such vacancies. SEC. 17. Senators and representatives shall, in all cases except treason, felony, or breach of the peace, be privileged firom arrest during the session of the General Assembly, and in going to and returning fronm the same; and for any speech or debate in either house, they shall not be questioned in any other place. SEC. 18. Each house may punish, by imprisonmnent during its session, any person, not a member, who shall be guilty of disrespect to the house, by any disorderly or contemptuous behavior in their presence: Provided, such imprisonment shall not, at any one time, exceed twenty-four hours. SEC. 19. The doors of each house, and of committees of the whole, shall ble kept open, except in such cases as, in the opinion of the house, require secrecy. Neither house shall, without the consent of the other, adjourn for more than two days, nor to any other place than that in which the two houses shall be sitting. Sr~c. 20. The style of the laws of this State shall be, "Be it enacted by the.People of the gSt ate of'Itllinois, rep resented in the Generat l Aso sembly." SEC. 21. Bills may originate in either house, but maly be altered, amended or rejected by the other- and on the final passage i~ all kills the vote shall be by ayes and noes, and OF THE LEGISLATIVE DEPA.ITMEINT. SECTION 1. The legislative auth ority of this State shall be vested in a General Assembly, which shall consist of a senate and house of representatives, both to be elected by the people. SEC. 2. The first election for senators and representatives shall be held on the Tuesday after the first Monday in November, one thousand eight hundred and forty-eight; and thereafter elections for members of the Gener-al Assembly shall be held once in two years, on the Tuesday next after the first Monday in November, in each and every county, at such places therein as may be provided by law. SEC. 3. No person shall be a representative who shall not have attained the age of twenty-five years; who shall not be a citizen of the United States, and three years an inhabitant of this State; who shall not have resided within the limits of the county or district in which he shall be chosen twelve months next preceding his election, if such county or district shall have been sowing 471 -ARTICLE I. BOUNDARIES. SEc,rio.N 1. The boundaries and jurisdiction of the State shall be as follows, to wit Beginning at the mouth of the Wabash river thence -up the same, and with the line of Indiau,,i, to the northwest corner of said State; thence east, with the line of the same State, to the middle of Lake Michi,an; thence north, along the middle of said lake, to north latitude forty-two degrees and thirty minutes; thence west to the middle of the Mi-ssissippi river, and thence down, along the middle of that river, to its continence with the Ohio river, and thence up the latter river, along its northwestern shore, to the place of beginning: Provided, that this State shall exercise such jurisdiction upon the Ohio river as she is now entitled to, or such as may hereafter be tigreed upon by this State and the State of Kentucky. ARTICLE II. CONCERNING THE DISTRIBUTION OF THE POW ERS OF GOVERNMENT. SECTION 1., Thepowers of the government of the Sta.',e of Illi.,,ois shall be divided into three distinct departments, and each of them be confided to a separate body of magistracy, to-wit: I'hose which are legislative, to one; those which are executive, to another, and those which are judicial, to another. SEC. 2. No person, or collection of persons, being one of these departments, shall exercise any power properly belonging to either of the others, except as hereinafter expressly directed or permitted, and all acts in con,Lravention of this section shall be void. ARTICLE III. 18S2 COXSTITUTIO OF 1S48. rize the courts of justice to grant them for such causes as may be specified by law: Provided, that such laws be general and uniform in their operation. SEC. 33. The General Assembly shall never grant or authorize extra compensation to any public officer, agent, servant or contractor, after the service shall have been rendered, or the contract entered into. SEc. 34. The General Assembly shall direct, by law, in what manner suits may be brought, against the State. SEC. 35. The General Assembly shall have n o power to authorize lotteries for any pur pose, nor to revive or extend the charter of the State Bank, or the charter of any other bank heretofore existing in this State, and shall pass laws to prohibit the sale of lottery. tickets in this State. SEC. 36. The General Assembly shall have no power to authorize, by private or special law, the sale of any lands, or other real es tate, belonging, in whole or in part, to any individual or individuals. SEC. 37. Each General Assembly shall pro vide for all the appropriations necessary for the ordinary and contingent expenses of the government until the adjournment of the next regular session, the aggregate amount of which shall not be increased without a vote of two-thirds of each house, nor exceed the amount of revenue authorized by law to be raised in such time: Provided, the State may, to meet casual deficits or failures in revenues, contract debts, never to exceed in the aggregate fifty thousand dollars; and the h moneys thus borrowed shall be applied to the purpose for which they were obtained, or to repay the debt thus made, and to no other purpose; and no other debt, except for the purpose of repelling invasion, suppressing insurrection, or defending the State in war, (for payment oi which the f'aith of the State shall be pledged), shall be contracted, unless the law authorizing the same shall, at a gen eral election, have been submitted to the peo ple, and have received a majority of all the votes cast for members of the General Assem bly at such election. The General Assembly shall provide for the -publication of said law bfor three months at least before the vote of the people shall be taken upon the same; and provision shall be made, at the time, for the payment of the interest annually, as it shall accrue, by a tax levied for the purpose, or from other sources of revenue; which law, providing ior the payment of such interest by such tax, shall be irrepealable until such debt be paid: And provided further, that the law levying the tax shall be submitted to the peo ple with the law authorizing the debt to be contracted. SEC. 38. The credit of the State shall not, in any manner, be given to, or in aid of, any individual, association or corporation. SEc. 39. The General Assembly shall pro vide by law that the fuel and stationery fur hnished for the use of the State, the copying, printing, binding, and distributing the laws and journals, and all other printing ordered thertha to emoal rom ffie an isuaiby the General Assembly, shall be let by con- fut eaoildsrc,adb nildt Ilctio tohol ay ofic ofhoor,pi-fitortract to the lowest responsible bidder:; and oesntr trut, nde ths Sate Th paty,wheherthat no member of the General Assembly, or 25ThconisoCokadLkshl convcte or cqutted shll, evethelss,other officer of the State, shall be interested, cnttt h wnyffhsntra itit punishment, acording to law.either directly or indirectly, in any such con-anbeettetooesntr Sxc.29.No udg ofanycout o la ortract::Provided, that the General Assembly equty,Secetry f Sate Atorey-eneal may fix a maximum price.EEEETAIEDTEO. Attrne fo th Stte,recrde, cerkof ny' SxE. 40. Until there shall be a new appor- 1.TecuteofUinAlxnean cour ofrecrd,sheiff r clletor mebertionment of senators and representatives, the Plsisalcnttt h is ersna - senate shall be divided into senatorial and anylucatie ofic nuer he nitd Sate orrepresentative districts, and the senators andtaie of tis tat (povied hatappintent inrepresentatives shall be ap~portioned among 2 h oniso asc oeadHr the iliia,or ustcesof he eac, sallnotthe several districts, as foltows, viz: dnsalcnttt h eodrpeettv be con~~~~~~~ ~ ~~Sieelurtvofie)salhva ENATOEIAL DJSTEICTS. dsrc,adb nildt n ersna peron,hodin ay ofie o hnororproit 1. The counties of Alexander, Union, 3 h oniso altnadSln hl undr te gvermen oftheUnied tats,Pulaski~ Johnson, Massac, Pope and Hardincosiuetetidrpeettvditit holdanyoffie o honr o proit ndertheshall constitute the first senatorial district, adb nildt n ersnaie authority of this State. and shall be entitled to one senator.4.TecuteofJhsnadWlimo Sxc.30.Evey prso whoshal b chsen 2. The counties of Gallatin, Saline, Wit-shlcosiuetefutrersnaieds or pponte toanyoffce f tustor roft,liamson, Franklin and White shall constitutetrt,adbenildtonrersnaie sbal, efoe eterng ponthedutes herof'the second senatorial district, and be entitled 5.TecuteofJcsnadFaki takean athto upprt te Cnsttuton f -to one senator. salcnttt h it ersnaieds theUnied tats ad f tis tat, ad aso 3. The counties of Jefferson, Wayne, Ma-trc,adbenildtonrersnaie an oath of off~~~~~iceon and Hamiltoh shall constitute the third 6.TecuteofMro.JfesnWan S~e.31. he enerl Asemby sall avesenatorial district, and be entitled to one sen- adHmlo hl osiuetesxhrp fullpowe to xclue frm th priileg ofator. rsnaiedsrc,adb nildt he eletin, o beng leted an pesonconic 4. The counties of Washington, Perry, rpeettvs rvdd htn onyi tedof ribry,perury orothr ifamusRandolph and Jackson shall constitute the si ititsalhv oeta n fsi crime. ~~~~~~~~~fourth senatorial diatrict, and be entitled to rpeettvs n h onyfo hc S~c.32.The eneal Asemy shll aveone senator.seaoshlbeslceshlnobeette no pwerto rantdivrce, ~tmayauto-, 5. The counties of St. Clair and Monroe t ersnaiersdnfnsi ony shall be entered on the journal; and no b il l shall become a law without the concurrence of a majority of all the members elect in each house. SEC. 22. Bills making appropriations for t he pay of the members and officers of the General Assembly, and for the salaries of the offi cers of the government, shall not conta in any provision on any other subject. SEC. 23. Every bill s hall be read on three different days i each house, unless ini case of urgency, three-fourths of the house where such bill is so depending shall deem it expedient to dispense with this rule; and every bill having passed beth houses shall be signed by the speakers of their respective houses; and no private or local law which may be passed by the General Assembly shall embrace more than one subject, and that shall be expressed in the title. And no public act of the General Assembly shall take effect or be in force until the expiration of sixty days from the end of the session at which the same may be passed, unless, in case of emergency, the General Assembly shall otherwise direct. SEC. 24. The sum of two dollars per day, for the first forty-two days' attendance, and one dollar per day for each day's attendance thereafter, and ten cents for each necessary mile's travel, going to and returning from the seat of government, shall be allowed to the members of the General Assembly, as a compensation for their services, and no more. The speaker of the house of representatives shall be allowed the sum of one dollar per day in addition to his per diem as a member. SEC. 25. The per diem and mileage allowed to each member of the General Assembly shall be certified by the speakers of their respective houses, and entered on the journals, and published at the close of each session. SEC. 26. No money shall be drawn from the treasury but in consequence of appropriations made by law; and an accurate statement of the receipts and expenditures of the public moneys shall be attached to and published with the laws at the rising of each session of the General Assembly. And no person who has been or may be a collector or holder of the public moneys shall be eligible to a seat in either house of the General Assembly, nor be eligible to any office of profit or trust in this State, until such person shall have accounted for and paid into the treasury all sums for which he may be accountable. SEC. 27. The house of representatives shall have the sole power of impeaching, but a majority of all the members elected must concur in an impeachment. All impeachments shall be tried by the senate; and when sitting for that purpose, the senators shall be upon oath or affirmation to do justice according to law and evidence. No person shall be convicted without the concurrence of two-thirds of the senators elected. SEC. 28. The Governor, and other civil officers under this State, shall be liable to impeachment for any misdemeanor in office, but judgment in such cases shall not extend further than to removal from office and disquali fication to hold any office of honor, profit or trust, under this State. The party, whether convicted or acquitted, shall, nevertheless, be liable to indictment, trial, judgment and punishment, according to law. SEC. 29. No judge of any court of law or equity, Secretary of State, Attorney-General, Attorney for the State, recorder, clerk of any court of record, sheriff or collector, member of either house of Congress, or person holding any lucrative office under the United States or of this State (provided that appointments in the militia, or- justices of the peace, shall not be considered lucrative offices) shall have a seat in the General Assembly;* nor shall any person, holding any office of honor or profit under the government of the United States, hold any office of honor or profit under the authority of this State. SEC. 30. Every person who shall be chosen or appointed to any office of trust or profit, shall, beibre entering upon the duties thereof, take an oath to support the Constitution of the United States and of this State, and also an oath of office. SEC. 31. The General Assembly shall have full power to exclude from the privilege of electing, or being elected, any person convicted of bribery, perjury, or other infamous crime. SEC. 32. The General Assembly shall have no power to grant divorces, but mnay autho CONSTITUTION OF 1,C-48. 1882 sh —Il constitute the fifth senatorial district, and be entitled to one senator. 6. The counties of Madison and Clinton shall constitute the sixth senatorial district, and be entitled to one senator. 7. The counties of Christian, Shelby, ,,Montgomery, Bond and Fayette shall constitute the seventh senatorial district, and be entitled to one senator. 8. The counties ofefflngham, Jasper, Clay, Richland, Lawrence, Edwards and Wabash shall constitute the eighth senatorial district, and be entitled to one senator. 9. The counties of Edgar, Clark and Crawford shall constitute the nintli senatorial dis. trict, and be entitled to one senator. 10. The counties of Vermilion, Champaign' Piatt, Moultrie, Coles and Cumberland shall constitute the tenth senatorial district, and be entitled to one senator. ii. The counties of Tazewell, McLean, Logan, DeWitt and Macon shall constitute the eleventh senatorial district, and be entitled to one senator. 12. The counties of Sangamon, Menard and Mason shall constitute the twelfth senatoi-ial district, and be entitled to one senator. 13. The counties of Macoupin, Jersey, Greene and Calhoun shall constitute the thir. tee-nth senatorial district, and be entitled to on senator. 14. The cou'nties of MorZan, Scott and Cass shall constitute the Fourteenth senatorial district, and be entitled to one senator. 15. The counties of Adams and Pike shall constitute the fifteenth senatorial district, and be entitled to one senator. 16. The counties of McDonough, Schuyler, Brown and Highland shall constitute the sixteenth senatorial district, and be entitled to one senator. 17. The co, —-nties of Hancock and Hender. son shall constitute the Seventeenth senato district, and be entitled to one senator. 18. The co-anties of Fulton and Peoria shall constitute the eighteenth senatorial district, and be entitled to one senator. 19. The counties of Rock Island, Henry, Mercer, Warren, Knox and Stark shall constitute the nineteenth senatorial district, and be entitled to one senator. 20. The counties of La Salle, Bureau, Putnam, Marshall, Woodford, Livingston and Grundy shall constitute the twentieth senatoral district, and be entitled to one senator. 21. The counties of DuPage, Kendall, Will and Iroquois shall constitute the twenty-first senatorial distriet,,and be entitled to one sen - ator. 22. The counties of Ogle, Lee, De Kalb and Kane shall constitute the twenty-second senatorial district, and be entitled to one senator. 23. The counties of JoDaviess, Stephenson, Carroll and Whiteside shall constitute the twenty-third senatorial district, and be entitled to one senator. 24. The counties of McHenry, Boone and Winnebago, shall constitute the twenty CONSTITUTION OF 1848. 7. The county of White shall constitute the stitute the thirty-eighth representative dis seventh representative district, and be enti- trict, and be entitled to one representative. tied to one representative. 39. The county of Fulton shall constitute 8. The counties of Wabash and Edwards the thirty-ninth representative district, and shall constitute the eighth representative dis- be entitled to two representatives. trict, and be entitled to one representative. 40. The county of Peoria shall constitute 9. The counties of Lawrence and Richland the fortieth representative district, and be en shall constitute the ninth representative dis- titled to one representative. trict, and be entitled to one representative. 41. The county of Knox shall constitute 10. The counties of Crawford and Jasper the forty-first representative district, and be shall constitute the tenth representative dis- entitled to one representative. trict, and be entitled,to one representative. 42. The counties of Mercer, Warren and 11. The county of Coles shall constitute Henderson shall constitute the forty-second the eleventh representative district, and be representative district, and be entitled to two entitled to one representative. representatives. 12. The county of Clark shall constitute 43. The counties of Rock Island Henry the twelfth representative district, and be en- and Stark shall constitute the forty-third rep titled to one representative. resentative district, and be entitled to one 13. The counties of Cumberland, Effing- representative. ham and Clay shall constitute the thirteenth 44. The counties of Whiteside and Lee representative district, and be entitled to one shall constitute the forty-fourth representa representative. tive district, and be entitled to one repre 14. The county of Fayette shall constitute sentative. the fourteenth representative district, and be 45. The counties of Carroll and Ogle shall entitled to one representative. constitute the forty-fifth representative dis 15. The counties of Montgomery, Bond trict, and be entitled to one representative. and Clinton shall constitute the fifteenth rep- 46. The counties of JoDaviess and Stephen resentative district, and be entitled to two son shall constitute the forty-sixth represent representatives. ative district, and be entitled to two repre 16. The counties of Washington and Perry sentatives. shall constitute the sixteenth representative 47. The county of Winnebago shall consti district, and be entitled to one representative. tute the fortv-seventh representative district, 17. The county of Randolph shall consti- and be entitled to one representative. tute the seventeenth representative district, 48. The counties of Putnam, Marshall and and be entitled to one representative. Woodford shall constitute the forty-eighth 18. The county of Monroe shall constitute representative district, and be entitled to one the eighteenth representative district, and be representative. entitled to one representative. 49. The counties of LaSalle, Grundy, Liv 19. The county )f St. Clair shall constitute ingston and Bureau shall constitute the fortythe nineteenth representative district, and be ninth representative district, and be entitled entitled to two representatives. to two represenatives. 20. The county of Madison shall constitute 50. The counties of DuPage, Kendall the twentieth representative district, and be Will and Iroquois shall constitute the fiftieth entitled to two representatives. representative district, and be entitled to three 21. The county of Macoupin shall consti- representatives. tute the twenty-first representative district, 51. The counties of Kane and DeKalb shall and be entitled to one representative. constitute the fifty-first representative dis 22. The counties of Jersey and Greene trict, and be entitled to two representatives. shall constitute the twenty-second represen- 52. The counties of Boone and McHenry tative district, and be entitled to two repre- shall constitute the fifty-second representasentatives. tive district, and be entitled to two represent 23. The county of Scott shall constitute atives. the twenty-third representative district, and 53. The county of Lake shall constitute be entitled to one representative. the fifty-third representative district, and be 24. The county of Morgan shall constitute entitled to one representative. the twenty-fourth representative district, and 54. The county of Cook shall constitute be entitled to two representatives. the fifty-fourth representative district, and be 25. The counties of Cass and Menard shall entitled to two representatives. constitute the twenty-fifth representative Ssc. 41. Until the General Assembly shall district, and be entitled to one representative. otherwise provide, the clerks of the county 26. The county of Sangamon shall consti commissioners' courts in each of the aforesaid 26. The county of Sangamon shall cons1t1 tute the twenty-sith representative district senatorial districts, and in such of the repreandtute the twenty-sitled to two representatives s entative districts as may be composed of more and The, cntitle to Log rersena than one county, shall meet at the county seat 27. Thecountie s of Masonand Logan shall of the oldest county in said district. within constitute the twenty-seventh representative thirty days next after any election for senator district, and be entitled to one representative. or representative therein, for the purpose of 28. The county of Tazewell shall constitute comparing and canvassing the votes given at the twenty-eighth representative district, and such election; and the said clerks shall in all be entitled to one representative. other respects conform to the laws on the sub 29. The counties of McLean and DeWitt jeet in f9rce at the time of the adoption of shall constitute the twenty-ninth representa- this Constitution. tive districh and be entitled to one representative. ARTICLE IV. 30. The county of Vermilion shall consti- OF pups for wihteaetcovn tute the thirtieth representative district, and be entitled to one representative. SECTIOx 1. The executive power of the 31. The county of Edgar shall constitute State shall be vested in a Governor. the thirty-first rebpresentative district, and be SEc. 2. The first election of Governor shall entitled to one representative. be held on Tuesday next after the first Mo en 32. The counties of Champaign, Piatt, day in November, A. D. 1848; and the next Moultrie and Macon shall constitute the election shall be held on Tuesday next after thirty-second representative district, and be the first Monday of November, A.D. 1852; and entitled to one representative. thereafter an election for Governor shall be 33. The counties of Shelby and Christian held once in four years, on Tuesday next after shall constitute the thirty-third representa- the first Monday of November. The Governor tive district, and be entitled to one represent shall be chosen by the electors of the members ative. of the General Assembly, at the same places 34. The counties of Pike and Calhoun and in the same manner that they shall reshall constitute the thirty-fourth representa- spectively vote for members thereof. The retive district, and be entitled to two represent- turns for every election of Governor shall be atives. sealed up and transmitted to the seat of gov 35. The counties of Adams, Highland and ernment, by the returning officers, directed Brown shall constitute the thirty-fifth repre- to the speaker of the house of representatives, sentative district, and be entitled to three who shall open and publish them in the presrepresentatives. ence of a majority of the members of each 36, The county of Schuyler shall consti- house of the General Assembly. The person titute the thirty-sixth representative district, having the highest number of votes shall be and be entitled to one representative. Governor; but if two or more be equal and 37. The county of Hancock shall consti- highest in votes, then one of them shall be tute the thirty-seventh representative dis- chosen Governor by joint ballotof bothhhouses trict, and be entitled to two representares. of the General Assembly. Contested elections 38. The county of McDonough shall con- shall be determined by both houses of the 1883 - General Assembly, in such manner as shall be prescribed by law. SEC. 3. The first Governor shall enter upon 1 the duties of his office on the second Monday of January, A.D. 1849, and shall hold his office until the second Monday of January,A.D. 1853, - and until his successor shall have been elected and qualified and thereafter the Governor shall hold his office for the term of four years, , and until his successor shall have been elected and qualified; but he shall not be eligible to such office more than four years, in any term of eight years, nor to any other office until after the expiration of the term for which he was elected. SEC. 4. No person except a citizen of the United States shall be eligible to the office of Governor; nor shall any person be eligible to that office who shall not have attained the age of thirty-five years, and been ten years a resi dent of this State, and fourteen years a citizen of the United States. SEC. 5. The Governor shall reside at the seat of government, and receive a salary of fifteen hundred dollars per annum-which shall not be increased or diminished; and he shall not, during tile time for which he shall have been elected, receive any emolument from the United States, or either of them. SEC. 6. Before he enters upon the duties of his office he shall take the following oath or affirmation, to-wit: "I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the duties appertaining to the office of Governor of the State of Illinois; and will, to the best of myability, preserve, protect,and defend the Constitution of this State; and will also support the Constitution of the United States." SEC. 7. He shall, from time to time, give the General Assembly information of the state of the government, and recommend to their consideration such measures as he shall deem expedient. SEc. 8. The Governor shall have power to grant reprieves, commutations and pardons after conviction, for all offenses except treason and cases of impeachment, upon such conditions and with such restrictions and limitations as he may think proper, subject to such regulations as may be provided by law relative to the manner of applying for pardons. Upon conviction for treason, he shall have power to suspend the execution of the sentence until the case shall be reported to the General Assembly at its next meeting when the General Assembly shall pardon the convict, commute the sentence, direct the execution thereof, or grant a further reprieve. Ile shall, biennially, communicate to the General Assembly each case of reprieve, commutation or pardon granted, stating the name of the convict, the crime for which he was convicted, the sentence and its date, and the date of commutation, pardon or reprieve. SEC. 9. He may require information in writing from the officers in the executive department, upon any subject relating to the duties of their respective offices, and shall take care that the laws be faithfully executed. SEC. 10. He may, on extraordinary occasions. convene the General Assembly by pr'oclamation, and shall state in said proclamnation the purpose for which they ale to convene;and the General Assembly shall enter on no legislative business except th~at for which they were specially called together. SLEC. 11. He shall be commander-in-chief of the army and navy of this State, and of the militia, except when they shall be called into the service of the Unlited States. SEC. 12. The Governlor shall nominate, and by and with the advice and consent of the senate (a majority of all the senators concurring), appoint all officerss whose offices are established by this Constitution, or which may be created by law, and whose appointments are nlot otherwise provided for; and no such officer shall be appointed or elected by the General Assembly. SEC. 135 In case of' disagreement between the two houses with resp~ect to the time of adjournmnent, the Governor shall have power to adjourn the General Assembly to such time as he thinks proper: Provid ed, it be not to a period beyond the next constituti.onal meeting of the same. SEC. 14. A Lieutenant Governor shall be chosen at everry ellectionl or Governor, in the same manner, continue in officee for the same time, and possess the same qualifieatioss. In voting for Governor and Lieutenant~ Gov 1884 COSIUIXO 88 ernor the electors shall distinguish whom SEc. 23. There shall be chosen, by the for either of them for any elective office (cx ernor the electors shall distinguish whom they vote for as Governor and whom as Lieutenant Governor. SEc. 15. The Lieutenant-Governor shall, by virtue of his office, be speaker of the senate; have a right, when in committee of the whole, to debate and vote on all subjects, and, whenever the senate are equally divided, to give the casting vote. SEC. 16. Whenever the government shall be administered by the Lieutenant-Governor, o r he shall be unable to attend as speaker of the senate, the senators shall elect one of their own number as speaker for that occasion; and if, during the vacancy of the office of Governor, the Lieutena~nt-Governor shall be impeached, removed from office, refuse to qualify, or resig,n or die, or be absent from the State, the speaker of the senate shall, in like manner, administer tile government. SEC. 17. The Lieutenant Governor, while he acts as speaker of the senate, shall reeive for his services the same compensation which shall for the same period be allowed to the speaker of the house of representatives, and no more. SEC. 18. If the Lieutenant-Governor shall be called upon to administer the government, and shall, while in such administration, resign, die, or be absent from the State during the recess of the General Assembly, it shall be the duty of the Secretary of State, for the time being, to convene the senate for the purpose of choosing a speaker. SEC. 19. In case of the impeachment of the Governor, his absence from the State, or inability to discharge the duties of his office, the powers, duties and emoluments of the office shall devolve upon the Lieuteinant-Gov erner; and in case of his death, resignation, or removal, then upon the speaker of the senate for the time being, until the Governor, absent or impeached, shall return or be ac quitted; or until the disqualification or ina. bility shall cease; or until a new Governor shall be elected and qualified. SEC. 20. In case of a vacancy in the office of Governor, for any other cause than those herein enumerated, or inl case of the death of the Governor elect before lie is qualified, the powers, duties and emoluments of the office shall devolve upon the Lieutenant-Governor or speaker of the senate, as above provided, until a new Governor be elected and qualified. SEC. 21. Every bill which shall have passed the senate and house of representatives shall, before it becomes a law, be presented to the Governor. It he approve, he shall sign it, but if not, he shall return it, with his objec tions, to the house in which it shall have originated; and the said house shall enter the objections at large on their journal, and pro ceed to reconsider it. If, after such recon sideration, a majority of the members elected shall agree to pass the bill, it shall be sent, together with the objections, to the other house, by which it shall likewise be reconsid ered; and if approved by a majority of the members elected, it shall become a law, not withstanding the objections of the Governor; but in all such cases the votes of both houses shall be determined by yeas and nays, to be entered on the journals of each house, re spectively. If any bill shall not be returned by the'Governor within ten days (Sundays excepted) after it shall have been presented to him, the same shall be a law, in like manl ner as if he had signed it, unless the General Assemblyi shall, by their adjournmnent, pre vent its return, in which case the said bill shall Dbe returned on the first day of the meeting of the General Assembly after the expiration of said tell days, or be a la~w. ~EC. 22. There shall be elected by the qualified electors of this State, at the same time of the elcction for Governocr, a Secretary of State, whose term of office shall b~e the same as that of the Governor, who shall keep a fair register of the official wets of the Gov ernor, and when required, shall lay the same, and all pa~ers, minutes and vouchers relative thereto, before either branch of the General Assembly, and shall perform such other duties as shall be assigned him by law, and shall re ceive a salary of eight hundred dollars per annum, and no mnore, except fees: Provided, that if the office of Secretary of State should be vacated by death, resignation or other wise, it shall be the duty of the Governor to appoint another, who shall hold his offiec unL til another Secretary shall b~ elected and qualified. SEe. 23. There shall be chosen, by the qualified electors throughout the State, an Auditor of Public Accounts, who shall hold his office for the term of four years, and until his successor is qualified, and whose duties shall be regulated by law, and who shall receive a salary, exclusive of clerk hire, of one thousand dollars per annum for his services, and no more. SEC. 24. There shall be elected, by the qualified electors throughout the State, a State Treasurer, who shall hold his office for two years, and until his successor is qualified; whose duties nmay be regulated by law, and who shall receive a salary of eight hundred dollars per annum, and no more. SEC. 25. All grants and commissionss shall be sealed with the Great Seal of St,ate, signed by the Governor or person administering the government, and countersigned by the Secretar-v of State. SEC. 26. Thle Governor and all other civil officers shall be liable to impeachment for smisdemeanor in office, during their continuance in office, and for two years thereafter. for either of them for any elective office (except that of judge of the supreme o r circuit court), given by the General Assembly or the people, shall be void. SEC. 11. No person shall be eligible to the office of judge of any court of this State who is not a citizen of the United States, and who shall no,', have resided in this State live years next preceding his election, and who shall not for two years next preceding- his election have resided in the division, circuit or county in which he shall be elected, nor shall any person be elected judge of the supreme court who shall be, at the time of his election, under the age of thirty-five years; and no person shall be eligible to the office of judge of the circuit court until he shall have attained the age of thirty years. SEC. 1'S. For any reasonable cause, to be entered on the journals of each house, which shall not be sufficient ground for impeachment, both justices of the supreme court and judges of the circuit court shall be removed firom office, on the vote of two-thirds of the members elected to each branch of the General Assembly: Provided, always, that no member of either house of the General Assenbly shall be eligible to fill the vacancy occasioned by such removal: Proiided, also, that no removal shall be made unless the justice orjudge complained of shall have been served with a copy of the complaint against him, and shall have an opportunity of being heard in his defense. SEC. 1;3. The first election of justices of the supreme court a n~d j ud es of the circuit courts shall be held on the first Monday of September, 1848. SEC. 14. The second election for one justiee of the supreme court shall be held on the first Monday of June, 1852; and every three years thereafter an election shall be held for one justice of the supreme court. SEC. 15. On the first Monday in June, 1855, and every sixth year thereafter, an election shall be held for judg-es of the circuit courts: Provided, whenever an additional circuit is created, such provision may be made as to hold the second election of such additional judge at the regular elections herein provided. SEC. 16. There shall be in each county a court, to be called a countv court. SEC. 17. One county judge shall be elected by the qualified voters of each county, who shall hold his office for four years, and until his successor is elected and qualified. SEC. 18. The jurisdiction of said court shall extend to all probate and such other jurisdiction- as the General Assembly may confer in civil cases, and such criminal cases as may be prescribed by law, where the punishment is by fine only, not exceeding one hundred dollars. SEC. 19. The county judge, with such jus. tices of the peace in each county as may be designated by law, shall hold terms for the transaction of county business, and shall perform such other duties as the General Assembly shall prescribe: P'rovided, the General Assembly may require that two justices, to be chosen by the qualified electors of' eaclh county, shall sit with the county judge in all cases; and there shall be elected qua~drennially, in each county, a clerk of the county court, who shall be, ex of ico, recorder, whose compensation shall be fees: Provided, thle General Assembly rmay, by law, make the clerk of the circuit court, ez-ofcico, recorder in lieu of the county clerk.' Sea. 20. The General Assembly shall provide for the compensation of the county judge. SEC. 21. The clerks of the supreme and circuit courts, and State's attorneys shall be elected at the first special election for judges. The second election lbr clerks of the supreme court shall be held on the first Monday of June, 1855, and every sixth year therealter. The second election for clerks of the circuit courts and State's attorneys, shall be held on thle Tuesday next after the first Monday of November, 1852, and evergy fourth year thereafter. SEC. 22. All judges and State's attorneys shall be commissioned by the Governor. SEC. 23. The election of all officers,s and the filling of all vacancies that may happen by death, resignation or removal, not otherwise directed or provided for by this Constitution, shall be made in such manner as the General Assembly shall di~ct:. Provided, SEC. 1. The judicial power of this State shall be and is hereby vested in one supreme court, in circuit courts, in county courts, and injustices of ttlie peace: P2rovided, that inferior local courts, of civil and criminal jurisdiction, may be established by the General Assembly in the cities of this State, but such courts shall have a uniform organization and jurisdiction in such cities. SEC. 2. The supreme court shall consist of three judges, two of whom shall form a quorum; and the concurrence of two of said judges shall, in all cases, be necessary to a decision. SEC. 3. The State shall be divided into three Grand Divisions, as nearly equal as may be, and the qualified electors of each division shall elect one of the said judges bfor the term of nine years: Pirovided, that after the first election of such judges, the General Assenmbly may have the power to provide by law for their election by the whole State, or by divisions, as they may deem most expedient. SEC. 4. The office of one of said judges shall be vacated, after the first election held under this article, in three years, of one in six years, and of one in nine years, to be decided by lot, so that one of said judges shall be elected once in every three years. The judge having the longest term to serve shall be the first chief justice, after which the judcge having the oldest commission shall be chief justice. SEc. 5. The supreme court may have original jurisdiction in cases relative to the revenue, in cases of man7damnus, habeas corpvs, and in such cases of impeachment as may be by law directed to be tried before it, and shall have appellate jurisdiction in all other cases. SEC. 6. The supreme court shall hold one term annually in each of the aforesaid grand divisions, at such time and place, in each of ssaid divisions, as may be provided for by law. SEC. 7. The State shall be divided into nine judicial districts, in each of which one circuit judge shall be elected by the qualified electors thereof, who shall hold his office for the term of six years, and until his successor shall be commissioned and qualified: Provided, that the General Assembly may increase the number of circuits to meet the future exigencies of the State. SEc. 8. There shall be two or more terms of the circuit court held annually il each county of this State, at such times as shall be provided by law; and said courts shall have jurisdiction in all cases at law and equity, and in all cases of appeals from all inferior courts. SEC. 9. All vacancies in the supreme and circuit courts shall be filled by elections as aforesaid: Provided, however, that if the unexpired term does not exceed one year, suchJ vacancy may be filled by executive appointment. SEC. 10. The judges of the supreme court shall receive a salary of twelve hundred dollars per annum, payable quarterly, and no more. The judges of the circuit courts shall receive a salary of one thousand dollars per annum, payabld quarterly, and no more. The judges of the supreme a nd circuit courts shall not be eligibe to an y other office, or public trust, of profit i n this State or the United States, during the term for which they ale elected, nor for one year thereafter. All votes G 1884 CONSTITUTION OF 1848. ARTICLE V. OF THE JUDICIARY DEPART.NIENT. CONSTITUTJO OF 1S48. 1885 SE,c. 33. The foregoing districts may, after the taking of each census by the State, be altered, if necessary, to equalize the said districts in population, but such alteration shall be made by adding to such district such adjacent county or counties as will make said district nearest equal in population: Provided, no such alteration shall affect the office of any judge then in office. ARTICLE VI. ON ELECTIONS AND THE RIGHT OF SUFFRAGE. SECTION. 1. In all elections, every white male citizen above the age of twenty-one years, having resided in the State one year next preceding any election, shall be entitled to vote at such election; and every white male inhabitant of the age aforesaid, who may be a resident of the State at the time of the adoption of this Constitution, shall have the right of voting as aforesaid; but no such citizen or inhabitant shall be entitled to vote except in the district or county in which he shall actually reside at the time of such election. SEC. 2. All votes shall be given by ballot. SEC. 3. Electors shall, in all cases, except treason, felony or breach of the peace, be privileged from arrest during their attendan ce at elections, and in going to and returning from the same. SEC. 4. NO elector shall be obliged to do militia dutv on the days of election, except in time of war or public danger. SEC. 5. No elector shall be deemed to have lost his residence in this State by reason of his absence on the business of the United States, or of this State. SEc. 6. No soldier, seaman, or marine in. the army or navy of the United States, shall be deemed a resident of this State in consequence of being stationed at any military or naval place within the same. SEac. 7. No person shall be elected or appointed to any office in this State, civil or military, who is not a citizen of the United States, and who shall not have resided in this State one year next before the election or appointment. SEC. 8. The General Assembly shall have full power to pass laws excluding from the right of suffrage persons convicted of infamous crimes. SEC. 9. The general elections shall be held on the Tuesday next after the first Monday of November, biennially, until otherwise provided by law. that no su ch offic er shall be elcted by t he General Assembly. SEc. 24. The General Assembly may au thorize the judgments, decrees and decisions of any local inferior court of record, of origi nal civil or criminal jurisdiction, established in a cit y, to be remov ed for revision directly into the supreme court. SEC. 25. County judges, clerks, sheriffs, and other county officers, for willful neglect of duty, or misdemeanor in office, shall be liable to presentment or indictment by a ,rand jury, and trial by a petit jury, and, upon conviction, shall be removed from office. SEC. 26. All process, writs and other pro ceedings shall run, "1I the name of the People of the State of Illinois." All prosecutions shall be carried on, "In the nanae and by the author ity of the People of the State ot lllinois," and conclude, "Against the peace and dignity of the same." SEC. 27. There shall be elected in each county in this State, in such districts as the, General Assembly may direct, by the quali fied electors thereof, a competent number of justices of the peace, who shall hold their offices for the term of four years, and until their successors shall have been elected and qualified, and who shall perform such duties, receive such compensation, and exercise such jurisdiction, as may be prescribed by law. SEC. 28. There shall be elected in each of the judicial circuits in this State, by the qualified electors thereof, one State's attorney, who shall hold his office for the term of four years, and until his successor shall be commissioned and qualified; who shall perform such duties and receive such compensation as may be prescribed by law: Jlirovided, that the General Assembly may hereafter provide by law for the election, by the qualified voters of each county in this State, of one county attorney for each county, in lieu of the State's attorneys provided for in this section; the term of office, duties and compensation-of which county attorneys shall be regulated by law. SEC. 29. The qualified electors of each county in this State shall elect a clerk of the circuit court, who shall hold his office for the term of four years, and until his successor shall have been elected and qualified; who shall perform such duties and receive such compensation as may be prescribed by law. The clerks of the supreme court shall be elected, in each division, by the qualified electors thereof, for the term of six years, and until their successors shall have been elected and qualified; whose duties and compensation shall be provided by law. SEC. 30. The First Grand Divison, for the election of judges ofthe Supreme court, shall consist of the counties of Alexander, Pulaski, Massac, Pope, Hardin, Gallatin, Saline, Williamson, Johnson, Union, Jackson, Randolph, Perry, Franklin, Hamnilto, White, Wabash, Edwards, Wayne, Jefferson, Washington, Monroe, St. Clair, Clinton, Marion, Clay, Richland, Lawrence, Crawford, Jasper, Effingham, Fayette, Bond, M~adison, Jersey and Calhoun, The Second Grand Division shall consist of the counties of Edgar, Coles, Moultrie, Shelby, Montgomery, Maconpin, Greene, Pike, Adams, Highland, Hancock, MtcDonough, Schuyler, Brown, Foulton, lMason, Cuss, Morgan, Scott, Sanbamon, Christian, l~acon, Platt, Champaign, Vermilion, DeWitt, Logan, Menard, Cumberland and Clark. The Third Grand Division shall consist of the counties of Henderson, Warren, Knox, Peoria, Tazewell, W oodford, McLean, Livingston, Iroquois, Will, Grundy, Kendall, LaSalle, Putnam, Marshall, Stark, Bureau, Henry, Merecr, Rocki Island, Whiteside, Lee, Carroll, Jo~aviess, Stephlenson, Winnebago, Ogle, DeKalb, Boone, Kane, MclIenry, Lake, Cook, and DuPage. SEe. 31. The terms of the supreme court for the first grand division shall be held at Mount Vernon, in Jefferson county- for the second division, at Springfield,, in Sangamon county;* for the third division, at Ottawa, in LaSalle county, until some other place in either division is fixed by law. SECr. 32. Appeals and writs of error may be taken from the circuit court of any county to the supreme court held in the division which includes such county, or, with the consent of all the parties in the cause, to the supreme court in the next adjoining divisions 472 ARTICLE VII. OF COUNTIES. SECTION 1. No new county shall be formed or established by the General Assembly which will reduce the county or counties, or either of them, from which it shall be taken, to less contents than four hundred square miles, nor shall any cou-nty be formed of less contents; nor shall any line thereof pass within less than ten miles of any county seat of the county or counlies proposed to be divided.; SEC. 2. No county shall be divided, or have any part stricken therefrom, without submitting the question to a vote of the people of the county, nor unless a majority of all the legal voters of the county voting on the question shall vote for the same. SEC. 3. All territory which has been or may be stricken off by legislative enactment from any organized county or counties for the purpose of forming a new county, and which shall remain unorganized after the period provided for such organization, shall be and remain a part of the county or counties from which it was originally taken, for all purposes of county and State government, until otherwise prov.ded by law. SFc. 4. There shall be no territory stricken from any county unless a majority of the voters living in such territory shall petition for such division; and no territory shall be added to any county without the consent of a majority of the voters of the county to which it is proposed to be added. SEC. 5. No county seat shall be removed until the point to which it is proposed to be removed shall be fixed by law, and a majority of the voters of the county shall have voted in favor of its removal to such point. SEC. 6. The General Assembly shall provide, by a general law, for a township organi zation, under which any county may organize whenever a majority of the voters of such county, at any general election, shall so de termine; and whenever any county shall adopt a township organization, so much of this Constitution as provides for the manage rnent of the fiscal concerns of the said county by the county court may be dispensed with, and the affairs of said county may be trans acted in such manner as the Genel al Assembly may provide. SEc. 7. There shall be elected in each coun ty in this State, by the qualified electors there of, a sheriff, who shall hold his office for the term of two years, and until his successor shall have been elected and qualified: Provided, no person shall be eligible to the said office more than once in four years. ARTICLE VIII. MILITIA. SEC. 1. The militia of the State of Illinois shall consist of all free male able bodied per sons (negroes, mulattoes and Indians except ed), resident of the State, between the ages of eighteen and forty-five years, except such persons as now are or hereafter may be ex empted by the laws of the United States or of this State, and shall be armed, equipped and trained as the General Assembly may pro vide by law. SEC. 2. No person or persons, conscientiously scrupulous of bearing arms, shall be com pelled to do militia duty in time of peace, provided such person or persons shall pay an equivalent for such exemption. SEC. 3. Company, battalion and regimental officers, staff officers excepted, shall be elected by the persons composing their several companies, battalions and regiments. BEc. 4. Brigadier and major generals shall be elected by the officers of their brigades and divisions, respectively. SEC. 5. All militia officers shall be commissioned by the Governor, and may hold their commissions for such time as the Legislature may provide. SEc. 6. The militia shall in all cases, except treason, felony or breach of the peace, be privileged from arrest during their attendance at musters and elections ot officers, and in going to and returning fnom the same. ARTICLE IX. OF THE REVENUE. SEC. 1. The General Assembly may, when - ever they shall deem it necessary, cause to be collected from all able-bodied free white male inhabitants of this State, over the age of twenty-one years and under the age of sixty years, who are entitled to the right of suffrage, a capitation tax of not less than fifty cents, nor more than one dollar each. SEc. 2. The General Assembly shall provide for levying a tax by valuation, so that every person and corporation shall pay a tax in proportion to the value of his or her property; such value to be ascertained by some person or persons, to be appointed in such manner as the General Assembly shall direct, and not otherwise; but the General Assembly shall have power to tax peddlers, auctioneers, brokers, hawkers, merchants, commission merchants, showmen, jugglers, innkseepers, grocery-kecepers, toll-bridges and ferries, and persons using and exercising fr-anchises and privileges, in such manner as they shall from time to time direct. SEe. 3. The property of the State and counties, both real and personal, and such other property as the General Assembly may deem necessary for school, religious and charitable pulrposes, may be exrempted from taxation. Sec. 4. Hereafter no purchaser of any land: or town lot, at any sale of lands or town lots. for taxcs due, either to this State: or any county, or incorporated town or city' within the same, or at any sale for taxes or levies authorized by the laws of this State, shall be entitled to a deed for the lands or town lots so purchased, until he or she shall have complied with the following conditions, to-wit: Such purchaser shall serve, or cause to be served, [ a written notice of such purchase on every person in possession of such land or town lot, three months before: the expirat'ion of the time of redemption on such sale;* in which notice he shall state when he purchased the land or town lot, the description of the land or lot he has purchased, and when the time of redemption will expire. In like manner he shall serve on the per~)n or CONSTITUTION OF 1848. 1885 1886 OOSTITUTIO OF 1848. ARTICLE XI. COMMONS. All lands which have been granted as a "c ommon" to the inhabitants of any town, hamlet, village or corporation, by any person, body politic or corporate, or by any government having power to make such grant, shall forever remain common to the inhabitants of such town, hamlet, village or corporation; but the said commons, or any of them, or any part thereof, may be divided, leased or granted, in such manner as may hereafter be provided by law, on petition of a majority of the qualified voters interested in such common or any of them. persons in whose name or names such land or lot is taxed, a similar written notice, if such person or persons shall reside in the county where such land or lot sih all be situated; and in the event that the person or pers ons in whose name or names the land or lot is taxed, do not reside in the county, such purchaser shall publish such notice in some newspaper printed in such county; and if no newspaper is printed in the county,ino then in the nearcst newspaper, that is published in this State, to the county in which such lot or land is situated; which notice shall be inserted three times; the last time not less than three months before the time of redemption shall expire. Every such purchaser, by himself or agent, shall, before he shall be'entitled to a deed, make an affidavti of his having complied with the conditions of this section, stating particularly the facts relied on as such compliance; which affidavit shall be delivered to the person authorized by law to execute such tax deed, and which shall by him be filed with the officer having custody of the records of lands and lots sold for taxes and entries of redemption in the county where such land or lot shall lie, to be by such officer entered on the records of his office, and carefully preserved among the files of his offiee; and which record or affidavit shall be primafacie evidence that such notice has been given. Any person. swearing falsely in such affidavit shall be deemed guilty of perjury, and punished accordingly. In case any person shall be compelled, under this section, to publish a notice in a newspaper, then, before any person who may have a right to redeem such land or qot from such tax sale shall be permitted to redeem, he or she shall pay the officer or person who by law is authorized to receive such redemption money, the printers fee for publishing such notice, and the expenses of swearing or affirming to the affidavit, and filing the same. SEC. 5. The corporate authorities of counties, townships, school districts, cities, towns and villages, may be vested with power to asses and collect taxes for corporate purposes; such taxes to be uniform in respect to persons and property within the jurisdiction of the body imposing the same. And the General Assembly shall require that all the property within the limits of municipal corporations, belonging to individuals, shall be taxed for the payment of debts contracted under authority of law. SFC. 6. The specifications of the objects and subjects of taxation shall not deprive the General Assembly of the power to require other objects or subjects to be taxed, in such nanner as may be consistent with the principles of taxation fixed in this Constitution. TSEC. 6. That the ri ght of trial by jury shall remain inviolate, and shall extend to all cases at law, without regard to the amount in controversy. SEC. 7. That the people shall be secure in their persons, houses, papers and possessions, from unreasonable searches and seizures; and that general warrants, where by an of fice r may be commanded to search suspected places without evidence of the fac t committed, or to seize any person or persons not named, whose offenses are not particularly described and supported by evidence, are dangerous to liberty, and ought not to be granted. SF1c. 8. That no freeman shall be imprisoned or disseized of his freehhold, liberties or privileges, or outlawed or exiled, or in any manner deprived of his life, liberty or property, but by the judgment of his peers, or the law of the land. SEC. 9. That in all criminal prosecutions the accused hath a right to be heard by himself and counsel; to demand the nature and cause of the accusation against him; to meet the witnesses face to face; to have compulsory process to compel the attendance of witnesses in his favor; and, in prosecutions by indictment or information, a speedy public trial by an impartial jury of the county or district wherein the offense shall be committed, which county or district shall have been previously ascertained by law; and that he shall not be compelled to give evidence against himself. SEc. 10. No person shall be held to answer for a criminal offense, unless on the presentment or indictment of a grand jury, except in cases of impeachment, or in cases cognizable by justices of the peace, or arising in the army or navy, or in the militia,when in actual service in time of war or public danger: Provided, that justices of the peace shall try no person, except as a court of inquiry, for any offense punishable with imprisonment or death, or fine above one hundred dollars. SEc. 11. No person shall, for the same offense, be twice put in jeopardy of his life or limb; nor shall any man's property be taken or applied to public use without the consent of his representatives in the General Assembly, nor without just compensation being made to him. SEc. 12. Every person within this State ought to find a certain remedy in the laws for all injuries or wrongs which he may receive in his person, property or character; he ought to obtain right and justice freely, and without being obliged to purchase it, completely and without denial, promptly and without delay, conformably to the laws. SEC. 13. That all persons shall be bailable by sufficient sureties, unless for capital offenses where the proof is evident or the presumption great; and the privilege of the writ of habeas corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in cases of rebellion or invasion the public safety may require it. SEC. 14. All penalties shall be proportioned to the nature of the offense * the true design of all punishment being to reform, not to exterminate mankind. SEc. 1S. No person shall be imprisoned for debt unless upon refusal to deliver up his. estate Obr the benefit of his creditors, in such manner as shall be prescribed by law, or in cases where there is strong presumption of fraud. SEa. 16. There shall be neither slavery nor involuntary servitude in this State, except as a punishment for crime, whereof the party shall have been duly convicted. SEa. 17. No ex post facto law, nor any law impairing the obligation of contracts, shall ever be made;* and no conviction shall work corruption of blood or forfeiture of estate. SEC. 18. That no person shall be liable to be transported out of this State for any offense committed within the same. SEC. 19. That a frequent recurrence to the fundamental principles of civil government is absolutely necessary to preserve the blessings of liberty. SEC. 20. The military shall be in strict subordination to the civil power. S~c. 21. That the people have a right to assemble together in a peaceable manner to consullt for their common good, to instruct their representatives, and to apply to the General Assembly for redress of grievances. SEC. W2. No soldier shall, in titme of peace, be quartered in any house ~vithout the con ARTICLE XII. AMENDMENTS TQ THE CONSTITUTION. SEC. 1. Whenever two-thirds ot all the members elected to each branch of the General Assembly shall think it necessary to alter or amend this Constitution, they shall recommend to the electors at the next election of members of the General Assembly to vote for or against a Convention; and if it shall appear that a majority of all the electors of the State, voting for representatives have voted for a Convention, the General Assembly shall, at their next session, call a Convention, to consist of as many members as the house of representatives at the time of making said call, to be chosen in the same manner, at the same place, and by the same electors in the same districts that chose the members of the house of representatives; and which Convention shall meet within three months after the said election, for the purpose of revising, altering or amending this Constitution. SEC. 2. Any amendment or amendments to this Constitution may be proposed in either branch of the General Assembly; and if the same shall be agreed to by two-thirds of all the members elect in each of the two houses, such proposed amendment or amendments shall be referred to the next regular session of the General Assemubly, and shall be published at least three months previous to the time of holding the next election for members of the house of representatives; and if, at the next regular session of the General Assembly after said election, a majority of all the members elect in each branch of the General Assembly shall agree to said amendment or amendments, then it shall be their duty to submit the same to the people at the next general election for their adoption or rejection, in such manner as may be prescribed by law; and if a majority of all the electors voting at such election for members of the house of representatives shall vote for such amendment or amendments, the same sall albecome apart of the Constitution. But the General Assembly shall not have power to propose an amendment or amendments to more than one article of the Constitution at the same session. CORPORATIONS. SECTIOS 1. Corporations not possessing banking powers or privileges may be formed under general laws, but shall not be created by special acts, except for municipal purposes, and in cases where, in the judgment of the General Assembly, the objects of the corporation can not be attained under general laws. SEC. 2. Dues, from corporations not possessing banking powers or privileges, shall be secured by such individual liabilities of the corporators, or other means, as may be prescribed by law. SEc, 3. No State bank shall hereafter be created, nor shall the State own or be liable for any stock in any corporation or joint stock association for banking purposes to be hereafter created. SEC. 4. The stockholders in every corporation or joint stock association, for banking purposes issuing bank notes, or any kind of paper credits, to circulate as money, shall be individually responsible, to the amount of their respective share or shares of stock in any such corporation or association, for all its debts and liabilities of every kind. SEC. 5. No act of the General Assembly authorizing corporations or associations with banking powers shall go into effect, or in any manner be in force, unless the same shall be submitted to the people at the general elec. tion next succeeding the passage of the same, and be approved by a majority of all the votes cast at such election for and against such law. SEc. 6. The General Assembly shall encourage internal improvements by passing liberal laws of incorporation tor that purpose. That the general, great and essential princi ples of liberty and free gov ernment may be recognized and unalterably established, we declare: ;SEC. 1. That all men are born equally free and independent, and have certain inherent and indefeasable rights. among which are those of enjoying and defending life and liberty, and of acquiring, possessing and protecting property and reputation, and of pursuing their own happiness. SEC. 2. That all power is inherent in the people, and all free governments are founded on their authority, and instituted for their peace, safety and happiness. SEC. 3. That all men have a natural and indefeasible right to worship Almighty God according to the dictates of their own con sciences; that no man can of right be compelled to attend, erect or support any place of worship, or to maintain any ministry, against his consent; that no human authority can, in any case whatever, control or interfere with the rights of conscience; and that no preference shall ever be given by law to any religious establishments or modes of worship. SEC. 4. That no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under this State. SEC. 5. That all elections shall be free and equal. CONSTITUTION OF 1848. 1886 ARTICLE X. ARTICLE XIII. -~~~~~~~CNTTTO OF14.18 bilities upon the same shall continue; and all crimes and misdemeanors shall be tried and punished as though no change had been made in the Constitution of the State. SEC. 4. That "Article XI," entitled "Commons," is hereby adopted as a part of the Constitution of this State, without being submitted to be voted upon by the people. SEc. 5. That at the first election fixed by this Constitution for the election of judges, there shall be elected one circuit judge in each of the nine judicial circuits now established in this State. SEC. 6. The county commissioners' courts and the probate justices of the several counties shall continue in existence and exercise their present jurisdiction until the county court, provided in this Constitutionfi, is organized in pursuance of an act of the General Assembly, to be passed at its first session. SEC. 7. That the clerk of the circuit court, in each county fixed by this Constitution as the place for holding the supreme court (except in the county of Sangamon), shall be, exa offlcio, clerk of the supreme court until the clerks of said court shall be elected and qualified, as provided in this Constitution; and all laws now in force in relation to the clerk of the supreme court, shall be applicable to said clerks and their duties. SEC. 8. That the sheriffs, State's attorneys, and all other officers elected under this Con, stitution, shall perform such duties as shall be prescribed by law. SEC. 9. That the oaths of office herein re, quired to be taken may be administered by a justice of the peace until otherwise provided by law. SEc. 10. That this Constitution shall be submitted to the people, for their adoption or rejection, at an election to be held on the first Monday in March, A. D. 1848; and there shall also be submitted, for adoption or rejection, at the same time, the separate articles in relation to the emigration of colored persons and the public debt. SEC. 11. That every person entitled to vote for members of the General Assembly, by the Constitution and laws now in force, shall, on the first Monday in March, A. D. 1848, be entitled to vote for the adoption or rejection of this Constitution, and for and against the aforesaid articles separately submitted; and the said qualified electors shall vote in the counties in which they respectively reside, at the usual places of voting, and not elsewhere; and the said election shall be conducted according to the laws now in force in relation to the election of Governor, so far as applicable, except as herein otherwise provided. SEC. 12. That the poll-book to be used at said election shall, as nearly as practicable, be in the following form, to-wit: sent of the owner; nor in time of war, except in manner prescribed by law. SEC. 23. The printing presses shall be free to every person who undertakes to examine the proceedings of the General Assembly, or bof any branch of g ove rnmen t, and no law s hall eve r be made to restrain the right thereof. The free communication of thoughts and opinions is one of the invaluable rights of man, and every citizen may freely speak, write and print on any subject, being responsible for the abuse of that liberty. SEc. 24. In prosecutions for the publication of papers investigating the official conduct of ,officers, or of men acting in a public capacity, ,or when the matter published is proper for public information, the truth thereof may be given in evidence; and in all indictments for libels, the jury shall have the right of determining both the law and the fact, under the direction of the court, as in other cases. SEc. 25. Any person who shall, after the adoption of this Constitution. fight a duel, or ,send or accept a challenge for that purpose, or be alder or abettor in fighting a duel, shall be deprived of the right of-holding any office of honor or profit in this Stale, and shall be punished otherwise, in such manner. as is or may be prescribed by law. SEC. 26. That from and after the adoption of this Constitution, every person who shall be elected or appointed to any office of profit, trust or emolument, civil or military, legislative, executive or judicial, under the government of this State, shall, before he enters upon the duties of his office, in addition to the oath prescribed in this Constitution, take the following oath: "I do solemnly swear (or affirm, as the case may be) that I have not fought a duel, nor sent or accepted a challenge to fight a duel, the probable issue of which might have been the death of either party, nor been a second to either party, nor in any manner aided or assisted in such duel, nor been knowingly the bearer of such challenge or acceptance, since the adoption of the Constitution, and that I will not be so engaged or concerned, directly or indirectly, in or about any such duel, during my continuance in office. So help me God." the Governor, and proclamation shall be made bv the Governor forthwith of the result of the polls. If it shall appear that a majority of all the votes poll ed are for the a dop - tion of this Con stitution, it shall be the supreme law of the land from a nd pafter the first day of April, A. D. 1848, but if it shall appear that a majority of t he vot es p olled were given against the Constitution, the same sha ll be null and void. If it shall further appear that a majority of the votes polled shall have been given for the separate article in relation to color ed persons, or the article for the two mill tax, then said a rtieor acle or articles shall be and form a p ar t of this Constitution; otherwise said article or ar ticles sha ll be null and void. SEC. 14. That if this Constitution shall be ratified by the people, the Gover nor shall forthwithi, after having ascertained the fact, issue writs of ele ction t o the sheriffs of the several counties in this State, or in ca se of vacancy, to the coroners, fo r the elect ion of all the of fice rs, the t ime of whose election is fixed by this Constitution or schedule; an d it shall be the d uty of said sheriffs or coro ners to give at least twenty days' notice of the time and place of said election, in the manner now provided by l aw. SEC. 15. The General Assembly shall, at its first session afte r the adoption of this Constitution, provide by law for the mode of voting by ballot, and also for the mann er of returning, canvassing and certifying the num ber of votes cast at any election; and until said law shall be passed all elections shall be viva voce, and the laws now in force regulating elections shall continue in force until the General Assembly shall provide otherwise as herein directed. SEC. 16. That the first general election of Governor, Secretary of State, Auditor, Treas urer and members of the General Assembly, and of such other officers as are to be elected at the same time, shall be held on the first Monday of August, eighteen hundred and forty-eight, anything in this Constitution to the contrary notwithstanding. County offl cers then elected shall hold their respective offices until their successors are elected or appointed, in conformity with laws hereafter enacted. SEC. 17. That returns of the election of justices of the supreme and judges of the circuit courts, Secretary of State, Auditor and Treasurer, shall be made and canvassed as is now provided by law for representatives in congress; and returns for members of the General Assembly and county officers shall be made and canvassed as is now provided by law. SEC. 18. That all laws of the State of Illinois, and all official writings, and the execu tive, legislative and judicial proceedings, shall be conducted, preserved and published in no other than the English language. SEC. 19. On the first Monday in December, one thousand eight hundred and forty-eight, the term of office of judges of the supreme court, State's attorneys, and of the clerks of the supreme and circuit courts shall ex2pire;and onl said day the term of odie of the judges, State'sm attorneys and clerks, elected under the provisions of this Constitution shall commence. The judges of the supreme court, elected as aforesaid, shall have and exercise the powers and jurisdiction conferred upon the present judges of that court;* and the said judges of the circuit court shall have and e~xercise the powers and jurisdiction conferred upon the judges of those courts, subject to the provisions of this Constitution. SEC. 20. On the first Monday in December, one thousand eight hundred and forty-eight, jurisdiction of all suits and proceedings then pending in the present supreme court shall become vested in the supreme court establishled by this Constitution, and shall be finally adjudicated by the court where the same may be pending. The jurisdiclion of all suits and proceedings then pending in the circuit courts of the several counties shall be vested in the circuit courts of said counties. SEC. 21. The) Cook and Jo Daviess county courts shall continue to exist, and the judge and other offcers of the samle remain in office until otherwise provided by law. SzE. 22. Until otherwise provided by law, the terms of she supreme court shall be held as follows:~ In the first division,.on the first Monday of December, A.D1. 1848, and ~nua[ POLL-BOOK of an election held at.... precinct, in the county of...., on the first Monday of March, A. -D. 1848, for the adoption or rejec tion of the Constitution, and the several articles submitted. -' 0 51 M Pi :IO *, C .0 2 3 4o'~ F 0 0o or ~ ~ o 0 m' m 1.. 2.... ...... SCHEDULE. That no inconvenience may arise from the al terations and amendments made in the Con stitution of this State, and to carry the same into complete effect, it is hereby ordained and declared SECTION 1. That all laws in force at the adoption of this Constitution, not inconsistent therewith, and all rights, actions, prosecutions, claims and contracts of this State, individuals or bodies corporate, shall continue and be as valid as if this Constitution had not been adopted. SEC. 2. That all fines, penalties and forfeitures due and owing to the S-tate of Illinois under the present Constitution and laws, shall inure to the use of the people of the State of Illinois under this Constitution. SEc. 3. Recognizances, bondds, obligations and all other instruments entered into or executed before the adoption of this Constitution, to the people of the State of Illinois, to any state or county officer or public body, shall remain binding and valid, and rights a~. lia SEC. 13. That the returns of the votes for the adoption or rejection of this Constitution, and for and against the separate articles submitted, shall be made to the Secretary of State within fifty days after the election, and the returns of the votes shall, within five days thereafter, be examined and canvassed by the Auditor, Treasurer and Secretary of State, or any two of them, in the presence of CONSTITUTION OF 1848. 1887 ARTICLE XIV. The General Assembly shall, at its first ses-Sion under the amended Constitution, pass such laws as will effectually prohibit free persons of color from immizratine to and settling in this State; and t6 effectually prevent the owners of slaves from bringing them into this State for the purpose of setting them free. ARTICLE XV. There shall be annually assessed and collected In the same'manner as other State revenue may be assessed and collected, a tax of two mills -upon each dollar's worth oftaxable property, in addition to all other taxes, to be applied as follows, to wit: the fund so created ,shall be kept separate, and shal'I annually, on the first'day of Jannary, be apportioned and paid over pro rata upon all such State indebtedness, otfier than the canal and school indebtedness, as may for that purpose be presented by the holders of the same. to be entered as credits upon, and to that intent, in extinguishment Of the principal of said indebtedness. n 0 o I - I0 11't m, . 0 0 0 5' : -t . 21 : t: Z . 0 : 0 : 0 1 2 uq 4. 0 0 C> - 5: CD P ,cCD 5' 1 Z, tl 5. F, :0 :Z5, .tz .... ..i. .... p-!2. 0. p, p CD P I .:i : CD : 0, CD .... .... ..i. Names of the voters. A. B........... C. D.......... E. F.]......... [G. 11.1......... 1888 COSTITUTIOX OF 1848. prevent the General Assembly from passing the supreme court shall be tried by the sensuch laws in relation to the apprenticeship of ate, and of judges of the circuit court by the minors, during their minority, as may be supreme court, and the General Assembly necessary and proper. shall prescribe the manner of proceeding SEc. 24. That the General Assembly shall therein. pass all laws necessary to carry into effect the DONE in Convention atthe capitol, in the city provisions of this Constitution. of Springfield, on the thirty-first day of SEC. 25. Elections of judges of the supreme August, in the year of our Lord one thouand circuit courts shall be subject to be con- sand eight hundred and forty-seven, and of tested. the independence of the United States of ' SEc. 26. Contested elections of judges of America the seventy-second. 1888 CONSTITUTION OF 1848. ly thereafter. In the second division, on the third Monday in December, A. D. 1848, and annually thereafter. In the third division, on the first Monday of February, A. D. 1849, and annually thereafter. The sheriffs of Jefferson and La Salle counties shall perform the same duties and receive the same compensation as is required and provided for the sheriff of Sangamon county, until otherwise provided by law. ~SEC. 23. Nothing in th.s Constitution shall 0 CONSTITUTION ADOPTED IN 1818. of this State), and who, moreover, shall not have paid a State or county tax. SEC. 4. The senators, at their first session herein provided for, shall be divided, by lot, from their respective counties or districts, as near as can be, into two classes. The seats of the senators of the first class shall be vacated at the expiration of the second year, and those of the second class at the expiration of the fourth year-so that one-half thereof, as near as possible, may be biennially chosen forever thereafter. SEC. 5. The number of senators and representatives shall, at the first session of the S General Assembly holden after the returnsd herein provided for are made, be fixed by the General Assembly, and apportioned among; the several counties or districts to be established by law, according to the number of white inhabitants. The number of representatives shall not be less than twenty-seven nor more than thirty-six, until the number of inhabitants within this State shall amount to one hundred thousand; and the number of senators shall never be less than one-third nor more than one-half of the number of representatives. SEC. 6. No person shall be a senator who has not arrived at the age of twenty-five years, who shall not be a citizen of the United States, and w h o sha ll not have resided one year in the county or district in which he shall be chosen immediately preceding his election (if such county or district shall have been so lonb erected, but if not, then within the limits of the county or counties, district or districts, out of which the same shall have been taken, unless he shall have been absent on the public business of the United States or of this State), and shall not, moreover, have paid a State or county tax. SEC. 7. The senate and house of representatives, when assembled, shall each choose a speaker and ether officers (the speaker of the senate excepted). Each house shall judge of the quali fication! and elections of its members, and sit upon its own adjournments. Twothirds of each house shall constitute a quorum, but a smaller number may adjourn firom day to day, and compel the attendance of absent members. A SEC. 8. Each house shall keep a journal of - its proceedings, and publish them. The yeas and nays of the members, on any question, shall, at the desire of any two of them, be ente r ed on the journals. SEC. 9. Any two members of either house shall have liberty to dissent and protest against any act or resolution which they may think injurious to the public or to any individual, and have the reasons of their dissent entered on the journals. SEC. 10. Each house may determine the rules of its proceedings, punish its members for disorderly behavior, and, with the concurrence of two-thirds, expel a member, but not a second time for the same cause. SEc. 11. When vacancies happen, in either house the Governor, or the person exercising the powers of Governor, shall issue writs of election to fill such vacancies. SEC. 12. Senators and representatives shall, in all cases except treason, felony, or breach of the peace, be privileged from arrest during the session of the General Assembly, and in going to and returning from the same; and for any speech or debate in either house they shall not be questioned in any other place. SEC. 13. Each house may punish, by imprisonment during its session, any person, not a member, who shall be guilty of disrespect to the house by any disorderly or contemptuous behavior in their presence: Prov,cided, such imprisonment shall not, at any one time, ex ceed twenty-four hours. SEC. 14. The doors of each house, and of committees of the whole, shall be kept open, except in such cases as in the opinion of the house require secrecy. Neither house shall, without the consent of the other, adjourn for more than two days, nor to any other place than that in which the two houses shall be sitting. SEe. 15. Bills may originate in either house, but may be altered, amended or rejected by the other. SEC. 16. Every bill shall be read on three different day s in each house, unless, in case cf urgency, three-fourths of the house where such bill is so depending shall deem it expedient to dispense with this rule; and every bill, having passed both houses, shall be signed by the speakers of the respective houses. Sre. 17. The style of the laws of this State shall be, "Be it enacted by the People of the State of Inlinois, represented in the General As. sembly." SEC. 18. The General Assembly of this State shall not allow the following officers of government greater or smaller annual salaries than as follows, until the year one thousand eight hundred and twenty-four: The Governor, one thousand dollars; and the Secretary of State, six hundred dollars. SEC. 19. No senator or representative shall, during the time for which he shall have been elected, be appointed to any civil office under this State, which shall have been created, or the emoluments of which shall have been increased, during such time. SEC. 20. No money shall be drawn from the treasury but in consequence of appropriations made by law. SEC. 21. An accurate statement of the receipts and expenditures of the public money ,shall be attached to and published with the laws, at the rising of each session of the General Assembly. SEC. 22. The house of representatives shall have the sole power of impeaching; but a majority of all the members present must concur in an impeachment. All impeach. ments shall be tried by the senate; and- when sitting for that purpose, the senators shall be upon oath or affirmation, to do justice ac-cording to law and evidence. No person shall be convicted without the concurrence of two-thirds of all the senators present. SEC. 23. The Governor, and all other civil officers under this State, shall be liable to impeachment for any misdemeanor in office; but judgment in such cases shall not extend further than to removal from office, and disqualification to hold any office of honor, profit or trust under this State. The party, whether convicted or acquitted, shall nevertheless be liable to indictment, trial, judg. ment and punishment according to law. SEC. 24. The first session of the General Assembly shall commence on the first Monday of October next, and forever after the General Assembly shall meet on the first Monday in December next ensuing the election of the members thereof, avnd at no other period, unless as provided by this Constitu tion. SEC. 25. No judge of any court of law or equity, Secretary of State, Attorney. General, attorney for the State, register, clerk of any court of record? sheriff or collector, member of either house of Congress, or person holding any lucrative office under the United States or this State (provided that appointments in the militia, postmasters or justices of the peace shall not be considered lucrative offices),) shall have a seat in the General Assembly; nor shall any person holding any ARTICLE II. SECTION 1. The legislative authority of this State shall be vested in a General Assembly, which shall cpisist in a senate and house of representatives, both to be elected by the people. SE,C. 2. The first election for senators and representatives shall commence on the third Thursday of September next, and continue for that and the two succeeding days; and the next election shall be held on the first Monday in August, one thousand eight hundred and twenty; and forever after elections shall be held once in two years, on the first Monday of August, in each and every county, at such places therein as may be provided by law. SEC. 3. No person shall be a representative who shall not have attained the age of twentyone years, who shall not be a citizen of the United States and an inhabitant of this State, who shall not have resided within the limits of the county or district in which he shall be chosen twelve months next preceding his election (if such county or district shall have been so long erected, but if not, then within the limits of the county or counties, district or districts, out of which the same shall have been taken, unless he shall have been absent on the public business of the United States or PREAMBLE. The people of the Illinois Territory, having the right of admission into the General Goyernment as a member of the Union, consistent with the Constitution of the United States, the ordinance of Congress of 1787, and the law of Congress approved April 18th, 1818, entitled "An act to enable the people of the Illinois Territory to form a Constitution and State Government, and for the admission of such State into the Union, on an equal footing with the original States, and for'other purposes;" in order to establish justice, promote the welfare and secure tho blessings of liberty to themselves and their posterity, do, by their representatives in Convention,ordain and establish the following Constitution or form of government, and do mutually agree with each other to form themselves into a free and independedt State, bv the name of the State of Illinois. And they do hereby ratify the boundaries assigned to such State by the act of Congress afore —aid, which are as follows, to wit: Beginning at the mouth of the Wabash river; thence up the same, and with the line of Indiana, to the northwest corner of said State; thence east, with the line of the same State, to the middle of Lake MichiL,an; thence north, along the middle of said like, to the north latitude forty-two dearees and thirty minutes; thence west to the iiaiddle of the -Mississippi river, and thence down, along the middle of that river, to its confluence with the Ohio river, and thence up the latter river, along its northwestern ,shore, to the beginning. ARTICLE I. ,CONCERNING THE DISTRIBUTION OF THE POW ERS OF.GOVERNMENT. SF,CTION1. Thepowersofthegovernment of the State of Illi,,ois shall be divided into three distinct departments, and each of them be confided to a separate body of magistracy, to-wit: Those which are legislative, to one those which are executive, to another, and those which are judiciary, to another. SEC. 2. No person, or collection of per. r,ons, being one of those departments, shall exercise any power properly belonging to either of the others, except as hereinafter expressly directed or permitted. 189 COSIUJ-O 88 take care that the laws be faithfully exeicuted. SEC. 8. ",When any officer, the right of whose appointment is, by this Constitution, S vested in the General Assembly, or in the Governor and senate, shall, during the recess, die, or his office by any means become vacant, t the Governor shall have power to fill such vacancy by granting a commission, which shall expire at the end of the next session of t he General Assembly. SEC. 9. He may, on extraordinary occa sions, convene the General Assembly by proc lamation, and shall state to them when as sembled, the purpose for which they shall have been convened. SEc. 10. He shall be commander-in-chief of the army and navy of this State, and of the milit4a, except when they shall be called into the service of the United States. SEC. 11. There shall be elected in each and every county in the sald State, by those who are qualified to vote for members of the General Assembly, and at,the same times and places where the election for such members shall be held, one; sheriff and one coroner, whose election shall be subject to such rules and regulations as shall be prescribed by law. The said sheriffs and coroners respectively, when elected shall continue in office two years, be subject to removal and disqualifica tion, and such other rules and regulations as may be, from time to time, prescribed by law.. SEC. 12. In case of disagreement between the two houses with respect to the time of adjournment, the Governor shall have pow er to adjourn the General Assembly to such time as he thinks proper, provided it be not a period beyond the next constitutional meet ing of the same. SiEc. 13 A Lieutenant Governor shall be chosen at every election for Governor, in the same manner, continue in office for the same time, and possess the same qualifications. In voting for Governor and Lieutenant Governor, the electors shall distinguish whom they vote for as Governor, and whom as Lieutenant Governor. SEC. 14. He shall, by virtue of his office, be speaker of the senate, have a right, when in committee of the whole, to debate and vote on all subjects, and whenever the senate are equally divided, to give the casting vote. SEC. 15. Whenever the government shall be administered by the Lieutenant Governor, or he shall be unable to attend as ipeaker of the senate, the senators shall elect one of their own members as speaker for that occa sion; and if, during the vacancy of the office of Governor, the Lieutenant Governor shall be impeached, removed from office, refuse to, qualifpy, or resign or die, og be absent from the State, the speaker of the senate shall in like maniner administer the government. SEC. 16. The Lieutenant Governor, while he acts as speaker of the senate, shall receive for his services the same compensation, which shall, for the same period, be allowed to the houss o th Geera Asemby, n sch an-speaker of the house of representatives, andshl,fotiettieoranadetb ner a shal ho pescried bylaw.no more; and during the time he administerslih SEC.3. he irs Goerno shll oldhisthe government as Governor, he shall receive SE.2 Thsurmcorshlbehle offce nti th fistMonay f Dcemer,Inthe same compensation which the Governor a h eto oenet n hl aea theyea ofou Lod oe touandeigt hn-would have received had he been employed aplaejrsito ny xeti ae dredand went-two andunti anoher ov-in the duties of his office. rltn otervne ncsso adms ernr sallbe leced nd ualfie tooffce' S~.e. 17. If the Lieutenant Governor shall adi uhesso me~mn smyb andforveraftr te Gveror hal hod hs'be called upon to administer the government,reurdtbetidbfrit office or theterm offour yar,adutland shall, while in such administration, re- Se.Tespeecutsalcniti anoter ovenorshal b elcte an qu~l-sign, die or be absent from the State during acifjsieadtreascae,aytoo fle; bt h shll ot e eigile or orethe recess of the General Assembly, it shallwhmsalfraqurm Thnubro thanfou yers i an tem ofeigt yarsbe the duty of the Secretary, for the time jsie a,hwvr eicesdb h He sallbe t lastthiry yarsof ge nd'being, to convene the senate for the purpose GnrlAsml fe h eroetosn havebeena ctixe ofthe nitd &ttesof choosing a speaker. egthnrdadtet-or thiry yars twoyeas o whih nxt re- SEc. 18. In ease of an impeachment of the E.4Thjutcsothsurmcor cedng is lecionhe hal hae rsidd wth-Governor, his removal from office, death, re- adtejde fteifro orssalb in the liits of ths State.fusal to qualify, resignation or absence fromaponebyjitbloofbtbrnhso S~c.4. e sallfro tie t tie, ivethethe State, the Lieutenant Governor shall ex-thGeeaAsebyancomsindb Gen~~~~~~~~~eralAsmlcnomtino h tt rise all the power and authority apper-thGoenranshlhodterofcsdr of te gvermen, ad reommnd o teirtaminlg to the office of Governor until the lggo eairutlteedo h is consdertio suh masues s h shll eemtime pointed out by this Constitution for theseonothGeeaAsebywhcshl expedient. ~~~~~~election of Goveirnor shall arrive, unless the b eu n edatrtefrtdyo an SEC.5. e sallhav poer o gantre-General Assembly shall provide by law forar,ithyeroouLodoetosn priees nd ardns fte covicion exeptthe election of a Governor to fill such va-eihhude an twnyfu,awhc S~c.6. he ovenorshal, t sate ties, SEC. 19. The Governor, for the time being,tithexiainowhctietesadjs recivea alay fr is erice, wic shlland the judges of the supreme court or atie,rsetvl,salhlcicicorsi neiter e icreaed or iminshe duingmajor part of them, together with the Gov-thseeaconisinscmanrada theter fo whch e sallhav ben eectd.ernor, shall be and are hereby constituted asuhtmsadsalhvanexriesc SEC.7. H mayrequre iformtion-~incouncil to revise all bills about to be passed jrsito steGnrlAsml hl wriingfro th ofices i th excutve e-into laws by the General Assembly; and forbylwpecie Buevratrteaoe partent ponany ubjct eatig tothethat purpose shall assemble themselves from si eid h utcso h urm or dutes f hei rspetiv oces ad s~ltime to time when the General Assemblyshlbecmisoedu' godbhvo shall be convened; for which nevertheless they shall not receive any salary or consideration und er any pretence whatever; and all bills which have pa s se d the se nate and house of representatives shall, before they become laws, be presented to the said council for their revisal and consideration; and if, upon such revisal and consideration, it should appear improper to the said council or a majority of them, that the bill should become a law of this State, they shall return the same, together with their objections thereto in writing to the senate or house of representatives (in whichsoever the same shall have originated) who shall enter the objections set down by the council at large in their minutes, and pro ceed to re-consider the said bill. But if, after such re-consideration, the said senate or house of representatives shall, notwithstand ing the said objections, agree to pass the same by a majority of the whole number of mem bers elected, it shall, together with the said objections, be sent to the other branch of the General Assembly, where it shall also be re considered; and if approved by a majority of all the members elected, it shall become a law. If any bill shall not be returned with in ten days after it shall have been presented, the same shall be a law, unless the General Assembly shall, by their adjournment, render a return of the said bill in ten days impractic able; in which case, the said bill shall be re turned on the first day of the meeting of the General Assembly, after the expiration of the said ten days, or be a law. SEC. 20. The Governor shall nominate, and by and with the advice and consent of the senate, appoint a Secretary of State, who shall keep a fair register of the official acts of the Governor, and when required, shall lay the same and all papers, minutes and vouch ers relative thereto, before either branch of the General Assembly, and shall perform such other duties as shall be assigned him by law. SEc. 21. The State Treasurer and public printer or printers for the State shall be ap pointed biennially by the joint vote of both branches of the General Assembly: Provided, That during the recess of the same, the Gov ernor shall have power to fill such vacancies as may happen in either of said offices. SEc. 22. The Governor shall nominate, and by and with the advice and consent of the senate, appoint all officers whose offices are established by this Constitution, or shall be established by law, and whose appointments are not herein otherwise provided for: Pro vided however, that inspectors, collectors and their deputies, surveyors of the highways, constables, jailers and such inferior officers whose jurisdiction may be confined within the limits of the county, shall be appointed in such manner as the General Assembly shall prescribe. ARTICLE III. SEmc. 1. The executive power of the State shall be vested in a Governor. SEC. 2. The first election.of Governor shall commence on the third Thursday of September next, and continue for that and the two succeeding days; and the -next election shall be held on the first Monday of August, in the year of our Lord one thousand eight hundred and twenty-two. And forever after, elections for Governor shall be held once in four years, on the.first Monday of August. The Governor shall be chosen by the electors of the members of the General Assembly, at the same places, and in,the same manner that they shall respectively vote for members thereof. The returns for every election of Governor shall be sealed up and transmitted to the seat of government by the returning officers, directed to the spealker of the house of representatives, who shall open and publish them in the presence of a majority of the members of each house of the General Assembly. The person having the highest number of votes shall be Governor; but if two or more be equal, and highest in votes, then one of them shall be chosen Governor by joint ballot of both houses of the General Assembly. Con, tested elections shall be determined by both houses of the General Assembly, in such manner as shall be prescribed by law. SEc. 3. The first Governor shall hold his office until the first Monday of December, In the year of our Lord one thousand eight hundred and twenty-two, and until another Governor shall be elected and qualified to office; and forever after the Governor shall hold his office for the term of four years, and until another Governor shall be elected and qualified; but he shall not be eligible for more than four years in any term of eight years. He shall be at least thirty years of age, and have been a citizen of the United States thirty years; two years of which next pre ceding his election he shall have resided with in the limits of this State. SEX. 4. He shall,from time to time, give the General Assembly information of the state of the government, and recommend to their consideration such measures as he shall deem expedient. S'C. 5. He shall have power to grant re prieves and pardons after conviction, except in cases of impeachment. SEC. 6. The Governor shall, at stated times, receive a salary for his services, which shall neither be increased nor diminished during the term for which he shall have been elected. SEC. 7. He may require information,:in writing from the officers in the executive de partment upon any subject =lating to the duties of their respective offices, and shall i t s t 1. 8 1890 CON STITUTION OF 1818. office of honor or profit under the government of the United States hold any oimee of honor or pro-fit u-ndei- the authority of this State. SEC. 26. Every person who shall be chosen or appointed to any office of trust or profit shall. before el,tei-ing upon the duties thereof, take an oath to -upport the Conwiitutioli of the United States and of this State, and al.,o an oath of offlee. SEC. 27. In all elections, all white male inhabitants above the a-,e of twenty-one years, having resided in th' State six months next preceding the election, shall eDjOy the riht of an elector; but no person shall be entitled to vote excedt in the county or district in which he shall actually reside at the time of the election. SEC. 28. All -votes shall be given viva voce until altered by the General Assembly. SEC. 29. Electors shall, in all cases except treason, felony or breach of the peace, be privileged from arrest during their attendance at elections, and in going to and returning from the same. SEC. 30. The General Assembly shall have full power to exclude from the privilege of electing or being elected, any person convicted of bribery, perjury or any other infamous crime. SEC. 31. In the year one thousand eight hundred and twenty, and every fifth year thereafter, an enumeration of all the white inhabitants of the State shall be made in such manner as shall be directed by law. SEC. 32 All bills for raising a revenue shall originate in the house of representatives, subject, however, to amendment or rejection as in other cases. ARTICLE IV. SECTIONI. Thejudicialpowerofth!sState shall be vested in one supreme court, and such inferior courts as the General Assembly shall, from time to time, ordain and estab. lish. SF,c. 2. The supreme court shall be holden at the seat of government, and shall have an appellate jvridiction only, except in cases relating to the revenue, in cases of mandamus, and in such cases of impeachment as may be required to be tried before it. SEc. 3. The supreme court shall consist in a chiefjustice and-three associates, -any two of whom shall form a quorum. The number of justices may, however, be increased by the General Assembly after the year one thousand eight hundred and twenty-four. SEc. 41 The justices of the supreme court and the judges of the inferior courts shall be appointed b' int ballot of both branches of the General "etnbly, and commissioned by the Governor, and shall hold their ofuces durinz good behavior until the end of the first session of the General Assembly, which shall be begun and held after the first day of Januar'y, in the year of our Lord one thousand eight hundred and twenty-four, at which timetheircommiss!olsshall expire: and until the expiration of which time, the said justices, respectively, shall hold circuit courts in the several counties, in such manner and at such times, and shall have and exercise such jurisdiction as the General Assembly shall by law prescribe. But ever after the aforesaid period, the justices of the supreme court shall be commissioned during good behavior CONSTITUTIOX OF 18.8. 1891 the salt works near Shawneetown; nor even at that place for a longer period than one year at any one time; nor shall it be allowed there after the year one thousand eight hundred and twenty-five. Any violation of this article shall effect the emancipation of such person from his obligation to service. SEC. 3. Each and every person who has been bound to service by contract or indenture in virtue of the laws of the Illinois ter ritory heretofore existing, and in conformity to the provisions of the same, without fraud or collusion, shall be held to a specific performance of their contracts or indentures; and such negroes and mulattoes as have been registered in conformity with the aforesaid laws, shall serve out the time appointed by said laws: Provided, however, that the children hereafter born of such person, negroe s or mulattoes, shall become free, the males at the age of twenty-one years, the females at the age of eighteen years. Each and every child born of indentured parents, shall be entered with the clerk of the county in which they reside, by their owners, within six months after the birth of said child. ARTICLE VII. SECTION 1. Whenever two-thirds of the General Assembly shall think it necessary to alter or amend this Constitution, they shall recommend to the electors, at the next election of members to the General Assembly, to vote for or against a Convention; and if it shall appear that a majority of all the citizens of the State. voting for representatives, have voted for a Convention, the Genernl Assembly shall, at their next session, call a Convention, to consist of as many members as there may be in the General Assembly, to be chosen in the same manner, at the same place, and by the same electors that choose the General Assembly, and which Convention shall meet within three months after the said election, for the purpose of revising, altering or amending this Constitution. and the justices thereof shall not hold circuit courts unless required by law. SEC. 5. The judges of the inferior courts shall hold their offices during good behavior, but for any reasonable cause, which shall not be sufficient ground for impeachment, both the judges of the supreme and inferior courts, shall be removed from office on the address of two-thirds of each branch of the General Assembly: Provided always. that Do member of either house of the General Assembly, nor any person connected with a member by con sangu-inity, or affinity, shall be appointed to fill the vacancy occasioned by such removal. The said justices of the supreme court, during their temporary appointments, shall receive an annual salary of one thousand dollars, payable quarter-yearly out of the public treasury. The judges of the inferior courts, and the justices of the supreme court who may be appointed after the end of the first session of the General Assembly, which shall be begun and held after the first day of January, in the year of our Lord one thousand eight hundred and twenty-four, shall have adequate and competent salaries, which shall not be diminished during their continuance in office. SEC. 6. The supreme court, or a majority of the justices thereof, the circuit courts, or the justices thereof, shall, rspectively, appoint their own clerks. SEC. 7. All process, writs and other proceedings shall run, "la the name of the People of the State of -Illinois." All prosecutions shall be carried on, "In the name and by the authority of the People of the State ot llitnois," and conclude, "Against the peace and dignity of the same.' SEc. 8. A competent number of justices of the peace shall be appointed in each county, in such manner as the General Assembly may direct, whose time of service, power and duties shall be regulated and defined by law. And justices of the peace, when so appointed, shall be commissioned by the Governor. by any government having power to make such gra nt, shall for ever rem ain common to the inhabitants of su ch town, hamlet, village or corporat ion: and the s aid commons shall not be leased, sold or divided under any pretence whatever: Provided, however, That nothing in this section shall be so construed as to affect the commons of Cahokia or Prairie du Pont: Provided, also, That the General Assembly shall have power and authority to grant the sanhe privileges to the inhabitants of the said villiages of Cahokia and Prairie du Pont as are hereby granted to the inhabitants of other towns, hamlets and villages. SEC. 9. That in all criminal prosecutions the accused hath a right to be heard by himself and counsel; to demand the nature and cause of the accusation against him; to meet the witnesses face to face; to have compulsory process to compel the attendance of witnesses in his favor - and, in prosecutions by indictment or information, a speedy public trial by an impartial jury of the vicinage; and that he shall not be compelled to give evidence against himself.. SEC. 10. That no person shall, for any indictable offense, be proceeded against criminally by information, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or the militia when in actual service, in time of war or pubtic danger, by leave of the courts, for oppression or misdemeanor in offlice. SEC. 11. No person, shall, for the same offense, be twice put in jeopardy of his life or limb; nor shall any man's property be taken or applied to public use without the consent of his representatives in the General Assembly, nor without just compensation being made to him. SEC. 12. Every person within this State ought to find a certain remedy in the laws for all injuries or wrongs which he may receive in his person, property or character he ought to obtain right and justice freely, and without being obliged to purchase it, completely and without denial, promptly and without delay, conformably to the laws. Sp~o. 13. That all persons shall be bailable by sufficient sureties, unless for capital offenses where the proof is evident or the presumption great; and the privilege of the writ of habeas corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in cases of rebellion or invasion the public safety may require it. SEC. 14. All penalties shall be proportioned to the nature of the offense; the true design of all punishment being to reform, not to exterminate mankind. SEC. 15. No person shall be imprisoned for debt unless upon refusal to deliver up his estate for the benefit of his creditors, in such manner as shall be Drescribed by law, or in cases where there is strong presumption of fraud. SEC. 16. No ex post facto law, nor any law impairing the validity of contracts, shall ever be made; and no conviction shall work corruption of blood or forfeiture of estate. SEC. 17. That no person shall be liable to be transported out of this State for any offense committed within the same. SEC. 18. That a frequent recurrence to the fundamental principles of civil government 'i absolutely necessary to preserve the blessinzgs of liberty. SEC. 19. That the people have a right to assemble together in a peaceable manner to consult for their common good, to instruct their representatives, and to apply to the General A~ssembly for redress of grievances. SEC. 20. That the mode of levying a tax shall be by valuation, so that every person shall pay a tax inl proportion to the value of the property he or she has in his or her possession. SEc. 21. That there shall be no other banks or moneyed institut~ions in this State but those already provided by law, exncept a State bank and its branches, which may be established and regulated by the General Assembly of the State as they may think proper. SEC. 22. The printing presses shall be free to every person who undertakes to examine the proceedings of the General Assembly, or of any branch of government; and no law shall ever be made to restrain the right thereof. The free communication of thoughts and opinions is one of the invaluable rights of man, and every citizen may freely speak, writhe and print on any subject, being resl~onsible for the abuse of that libelrty. SEC. 23. In prosecutions for the publication of papers investigating the official con SEC. 1. The militia of the State of Illinois shall consist of all free male able bodied perT sons (negroes, mulattoes and Ind ian s excepted), resident of the State, between the ages of eighteen and forty-five years, except such persons as now are or hereafter may be exempted by the laws of the United States or of this State, and shall be armed, equip pied and trained as the General Assembly may provide by law. SEC. 2. No person or persons, conscientiously scrupulous of bearing arms, shall be compelled to do militia duty in time of peace, provided such person or persons shall pay an equivalent for such exemption. SEC. 3. Company, battalion and regimental officers, staff officers excepted, shall be elected by the persons composing their several companies, battalions and regiments. SEc. 4. Brigadier and major generals shall be elected by the officers of their brigades and divisions, respectively. SEc. 5. All militia officers shall be commissioned by the Governor, and may hold their commissions during good behavior, or until they arrive at the age or sixty years. SEC. 6. The militia shall in all cakes, except treason. felony or breach of the peace, be privileged from arrest during their attendance at musters and elections of officers, and in going to and returning from the same. ARTICLE VI. That the general, great and essential princi ples of liberty and free government may be recognized and unalterably established, we declare: SEc. 1. That all men'are born equally free and independent, and have certain inherent and indefeasable rights, among which are those of enjoying and defending life and liberty, and of acquiring, possessing and protecting property and reputation, and of pursuing their own happiness. Sxc. 2. That all power is inherent in the people, and all free governments are founded on their authority, and instituted for their peace, safety and happiness. SEC. 3. That all men have a natural and indefeasible right to worship Almighty God according to the dictates of their own con sciences; that no man can of right be compelled to attend, erect or support any place of worship, or to maintain any ministry, against his consent; that no human authority can, in any case whatever, control or interfere with the rights of conscience; and that no preterence shall ever be given by law to any religious establishments or modes of worship. SEC. 4. That no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under this State. SECc. 5. That elections shall be free and equal. SEC. 6. That the right of the trial by jury shall remain inviolate. SEC. 7. That the people shall be secure in their persons, houses, papers and possessions, from unreasonable searches and seizures; and that general warrants, whereby an officer may be commanded to search suspected places without evidence of the fact committed, or to seize any person or persons not named, whose offenses are not particularly described and supported by evidence, are dangerous to liberty, and ought not to be granted. BSEC. 8. That no freeman shall be imprisoned or disseized of his freehhold, liberties or privileges, or outlawed or exiled, or in any manner deprived of his life, liberty or property, but by the judgment of his peers, or the law of the land. And all lands which have been granted as a common to the inhabitants ot any town, hamlet, village or corporation, by any person, body politic or corporate, or CONSTITUTION OF 181 S. 1891 ARTICLE V. ARTICLE VIII. SF,CTION 1. Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude shall hereafter be introduced into this State, otherwise than for the punishment of crimes, whereof the party shall have been duly convicted; nor shall any -male person, arrived at the age of twenty-one years, nor fe,male person, arrived at the age of eighteen years, be held to serve any person as a servant, under any Indenture hereafter made, unless such person shall enter into such indenture while, in a state of perfect freedom, and on condition of a bonaflde consideration received or to be, received for their service. Nor shall any indenture of anv negro or mulatto, hereafter made and executed out of this State, or if made in this State, where the term of service exceeds one year, be of the least validity, except those given in cases of apprenticeship. SEc. 2. No person bound to labor in any other State, shall be hired to labor in this State, except within the tract reserveilfor :82C~TTTIXO 88 taken, as directed by this Constitution, the county of Madison shall be entitled to one senator and three representatives; the countyv of St. Clair, to one senator and three repre.sentatives; the county of Bond, to one senator and one representative; the county of Washington, to one senator and one representative; the county of Monroe, to one senator and one representative; the county of Randolph, to one senator and two representatives; the county of Jackson, to one senator and one representative; the counties of Johnson and Franklin to form one senatorial district, and to be entitled to one Lenator, and each county to one representative; the county of Union, to one senator and two representatives; the county of Pope, to one senator and two representatives; the county of Gallatin, to one senator and three representatives; the county of White, to one senator and three representatives; the county of Edwards, to one senator and two representatives; and the county of Crawford, to one senator and two representatives. SEC. 9. The President of the Convention shall issue writs of election, directed to the several sheriffs of the several counties, or, in case of the absence or disability of any sheriff, then to the deputy sheriff, and in case of the absence or disability of the deputy sheriff, then such writ to be directed to the coroner, requiring them to cause an election to be held for Governor, Lieutenant-Governor, representative to the present Congress of the United States, and members to the General Assembly, and sheriffs and coroners in the- respective counties; such election to commence on the third Thursday of September next, and to continue for that and the two succeeding days, and which election shall be conducted in the manner prescribed by the existing election laws of the Illinois Terri tory; and the said Governor, Lieutenant Governor, members of the General Assembly, sheriffs and coroners, then duly elected, shall continue to exercise the duties of their re spective offices for the time prescribed by this Constitution, and until their successor or successors are qualified, and no longer. SEc. 10. An Auditor of Public Accounts, an Attorney General, and such other officers for the State as may be necessary, may be ap pointed by the General Assembly, whose duties may be regulated by law. SECTION 1. That no inconveniences may arise from the change of a territorial to a permanent State government, it is declared by the Convention, that all rights, suits, actions, prosecutions, claims and contracts, both as it respects individuals and bodies corporate, shall continue, as if no change had taken place in this government, in virtue of the laws now in force. SEC. 2. All fines, penalties and forfeitures due and owing to the Territory of Illinois shall inure to the use of the State. All bonds 'executed to the Governor, or to any other officer, in his official capacity, in the Territory, shall pass over to the Governor or to the officers of the State, and their successors in office, for the use of the State, by him or by them to be respectively assigned over to the use of those concerned, as the case may be. SEC. 3. No sheriff or collector of public moneys shall be eligible to any office in this State, until they have paid over, according to law, all moneys which they may have collected by virtue of their respective offices. SEC. 4. There shall be elected in each county three county commissioners, for the purpose of transacting all county business, whose time of service, power and duties shall be regulated and defined by law. SEC. 5. The Governor, secretary and judges, and all other officers under the territorial government, shall continue in the exercise of the duties of their respective departments until the said officers are superseded under the authority of this Constitution. SEC. 6. The Governor of this State shall make use of his private seal, until a State seal shall be provided. SEC. 7. The oaths of office herein directed to be taken may be administered by any justice of the peace, until the General Assembly shall otherwise direct. SEC. 8. Until the first census shall be 1892 CONSTITUTION OF 1818. SEc. 11. It shall be the duty of the General Assembly to enact such laws as may be necessary and proper to prevent the practice of dueling. SF,,c. 12. All white male inhabitants above the age of twenty-one years, who shall be actual residents of this State, at the Signing Of this Constitution, shall have a right to a vote at the election to be held on the third Thursday and the two following days of September next. SEc. 13. The seat of government for the State shall be at Kaskaskia, until the General Assembly shall otherwise provide. The General Assembly, at their first session holden under the authority of this Constitution, shall petition the Congress of the United Staies, to grant to this State a quantity of land, to con. 'ist of not more than four, nor less than one -section, or to give to this State the right of pre emption in the purchase of the said quantit; of land. The -said land to be situate on the Kaskaskia river, and as near as may be, cast of the third principal meridian, on said river. Should the prayer of such petition be grated, the General Assembly, at their next session thereafter, shall provide for the appointment of five commissioners to make the selection of said land so granted; and shall further provide rfor laying Out a town upon the land so selected, which town so laid out sh'all be the seat of government of this State for the term of twenty years. Should, how ever, the prayer of said petition not be granted, the General Assembly shall have power to make such provisions for a perma nent seat of government us may be necessary, and shall fix the rame where they may think best. SEc. 14. Any person of thirty years of age who is a citizen of the United States, and has resided within the limits of this State two years next preceding his election, shall be eligible to the office of Lieutenant Gov ernor-ai3y thing in the thirteenth section of the third article of this Constitution con tained to the contrary notwithstanding. duct of officers, or of men acting in a public capacity, or where the matter published is proper for public information, the truth thereof may be, given in evidence. And in all indictments for libels the jury shall have the right of determining both the law and the fact, under the direction of the court, as, in other cases. SCHEDULri. Done in Convention at Kaskaskia, the twen sixth day of August, in the year of our tz.-rd one thousand eight hundred and eight een, and of the independence of the United States of America the forty-third. 0 AN ACT TO PROVIDE FOR CALLING A CONVENTION TO REVISE, ALTER OR AMEND THE CONSTITUTION OF THEE STATE OF ILLINOIS. APPROVED FEBRUARY 25, 1869. S__IO 1- Be itxat epeo th S_, 4.Temmes coetoaiCo- voin at suheeto. Teaedet SEC. 4. The members chosen to said Con vention shall meet in the hall of the house of representatives, in the capitol, at the city of Springfield, at the time above designated for the meeting of said Convention, and, before entering upon their duties as members of said Convention, shall each take an oath to support the Constitution of the United States and of this State, and to faithfully discharge his duties as a member of said Convention. The said members shall be judges of their own privileges and elections, and shall be entitled to the same privileges to which mem bers of the General Assembly are entitled. They shall elect one of their number Presi dent, and may appoint one or more secreta ries, and such door-keepers and messengers as their convenience shall require. And such members of the Convention, and their secre taries and door-keepers, shall be entitled to receive, as compensation for their services, six dollars per day, and the same mileage now allowed by law to members of the General Assembly; and the messengers and sub ordinate officers shall receive such compensa tion as the Convention shall, by resolution, direct. The amount due each person shall be certified by the President of the Conven tion to the Auditor of Public Accounts, who shall issue warrants upon the Treasurer of the State, and the same shall be paid by the Treasurer, in the same manner as other warrants are paid. It shall be the duty of the Secretary of State to attend such Convention at the opening thereof, and he and all public officers shall furnish such Convention with all such statements, papers, books and other public documents in their possession, as the said Convention shall order or require; and it shall be the duty of the Secretary of State to furnish the members with all such stationery as is usual for the Legislature while in session, and cause such printing to be done as the Convention, from time to time, requires. SEc. 5. The proceedings of said Convention shall be filed in the office of the Secretary of State, and the amendments, revision or alterations to the Constitution, agreed to by the said Convention, shall be recorded in his office. The said amendments, revisions or alterations shall be submitted by the Convention to the people, for their adoption or rejection, at an election to [be] called by said Convention; and every person entitled to vote by the Constitution and laws in force at the time fixed for said election may vote on the question of adopting or rejecting said alterations, revisions or amendments; but each voter shall vote only in the election precinct or district in which he shall, at the time, reside, and be entitled to vote there and not elsewhere. And said amendments, revisions or alterations shall not take effect unless adopted by a legal majority of the legal voters In witness whereof, I hereto set my hand, and affix the Great [SEAL.] Seal of State, at the city of Springfield, this 25th day of February, A. D. 1869. EDWARD RUMMEL, Secretary of State. SECTION 1. Be it enacted by the People of the State of Illinois, represented in the General As,embly, That a Conventionlto alter, amend or revise the Constitution of the State of Illi nois, is hereby called, to meet at the State house, in the city of Springfield, on the sec ond Monday of December, in the year of our Lord -one thousand eight hundred and sixty niDe. Said Convention shall consist of eighty five members, who shall be chosen in the districts which are now entitled by law to elect members of the house of representa tives of the present General Assembly; and each representative district, as constituted by law at the time of the election of the mem bers of the present General Assembly, shall be entitled to elect as many members of said Convention as it was entitled to elect to the house of representatives of the present Gen eral Assembly; and said members of said Convention shall be chosen in the same man ner, at the places fixed for holding general elections, and by the electors qualified to vote for members of the General Assembly, in the same districts that chose the members of the house of representatives of the present Gen. eral Assembly. SEC. 2. The election of members of said Convention shall be held on the first Tuesday after the first Monday in November, in the year of our Lord one thousand eight hundred and sixty-nine, and such election shall be conducted in conformity to ithe laws in force respecting the election of members of the house of representatives of the General Assembly of this State, including any and all laws then in force providing for the registry of voters, and the prevention of fraudulent and illegal Voting; and the clerks or other officers, whose duty it shall then be to give notices of elections:for members of the house of representatives of the General Assembly, shall give notices, in the same manner, of said election for members of said Convention; and the said election shall be held at the places fixed for the holding of general elections and shall be conducted by the same judges and clerks who conduct the general election fixed by law. SEc. 3. The several judges shall return the votes given at the said election, and the votes shall be canvassed in the same manner as shall then be provided by law for the canvass and return of votes in elections for members of the General Assembly, and certificates of election shall be given to persons entitled thereto, by the same officers and in the same manner as members of the General Assembly shall be entitled to receive the same. And in case of contested elections to -the Convention, the contesting candidates shall pursue the same course, and be governed by the same rules, as shall then be provided by law in contested elections for. members of the General. Assembly of this State. 475 voting at such election. The amendments shall be so prepared and distinguished, by numbers or otherwise, that they can be voted upon separately, unless the Convention shall be of opinion that it is impracticable. In either case, the Convention-shall prescribe the form or manner of voting, the publication of the alterations, revisions or amendments, and the notice to be given of the election. At the election mentioned in this section, the judges of election shall receive the votes in the form to be prescribed by said Convention; and all the provisions of the laws of this State, then in force, in relation to election of officers at a general election, shall apply to the voting upon said amendments or alterations, so far as the same can be made applicable thereto; and the votes given upon said alterations or amendments shall be given and canvassed, and all proceedings shall be had in regard to them, as nearly as practicable, in the manner prescribed by the laws then in force in respect to votes given for Governor: Provided, said Convention may fi upon any other manner of canvassing the -otes for or against said amended Constitution, and shall rovide the way or manner for its taking effect after it shall have been adopted by the people. SE. 6. All willful and corrupt false swearing, in taking any of the oaths prescribed by this act'or by the laws of this State made applicable to this act, or any other mode or form in carrying into effect this act, shall be deemed perjure, and shall be punished in the same manner now prescribed by law for willful and corrupt perjury. Sicc. 7. The Secretary of State is hereby authorized to publish ten thousand copies of this act-five thousand to be distributed to the members of the General Assembly, and five thousand shall be distributed by him equally among the county'clerks of th-C rev. eral counties of this State. Approved February 2,5, 1.869. u he co ve 0 p ABSTRACT OF THE VOTE CAST FOR AND AGAINST THE ADOPTION OF THE NEW CONSTITUTION, AND FO AND AGAINST THE ATICLES SUBMITTED THEREWITH. 1. 2. 3. 4. 5. 6. 7. 8. 9. w C -~~ CD~~ CD - CD; 00,1 o p, O' -.- m tz 5O . E C g tz o 0- tt P4 Qo o, st p o CD * COUNTIES. -~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 0-., 0 p ol CD,. 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Jackson....................................... Jasper.....................................1321 Jefferson....................................... Jersey......................................... Jo Daviess..................................... Johnson........................................ Kane.......................................... Kankakee..................................... Kendall........................................ Knox.....................................2210 Lake........................................... LaSalle........................................ Lawrence..................................... Lee............................................ Livingston.....................................3501 : Maconpin................................. Madison.. Marion..................................222685 Marshall.......................................1 Mason................................3 87 2 08438 Massac....................................119 McDonough...............................1170 McHenry.....................................2 McLean...................................45154 Menard....................................53636 Mercer.....................................9310 Monroe....................................5285 Montgomery...................................6 Morgan).....................................79 Moultrie....................................... Ogle...........................................98 Peoria..................................... Perry........................................... Piatt......................................717341 Pike.......................................9210 Pope..........................................0 Pulaski......... Putnam....................................4513 Randolph.................................851775 Richland.................................. 215208 Rock Island................................7471 Saline...................................1 021532 Sangamon..................................... Schuyler....................................... Scott.......................................... Shelby.......................................... Stark...........................................4 St. Clair....................................... Stephenson....................................11 Tazewell.................................11743119 Union....................................164728 Vermilion................................1410162 Wabash........................................7 Warren......................................... Washington................................5072 Wayne....................................51. 9. 07. 9 60.?. 6. 44 40 47 78 2 62 64 41 43 9 0 White....................................29. 7. 6.21 48 22.0. 2 2 18 69 4 43 27 34 0 4 2 Whiteside................................261 6.61. 7 20. 7.66 6.20. 7 61 2 14 70 25 19 23 5 Will.........................................12.07. 9.02 9 08 10 98 31 290 22 15 12 96 28 01 25 Williamson.................................28. 5. 0. 5 7 6 46 16 45 27 52 18 6 6 4 9 2 1 Winnebago................................219 1.16. 2 24. 0 214 2.16 82 28. 2 55 67 19 24 26 4 Woofrb..................... 23,525 136,815 81,644' 143,533 22,702 127,077 41,417 147,032 21,310 99,022 70,080 134,114 I I I 7 I 2014 1731 390 176 470 557 1461 232 2981 1234 1030 2968 1637 4236 361 1716 2004 958 1373 1977 2207 1196 907 814 155 1143 2151 4233 500 938 531 1973 1713 359 2201 2050 642 745 914 164 246 469 718 1209 407 2501 529 417 1193 609 2299 1905 1347 193 1334 202 1464 543 514 293 2611 5148 282 2189 1272 88 1 1992 88 1718 594 486 375 318 665 712 498 775 102 1483 59 236 48 2365 283 1214 47 1020 251 2955 24 1636 156 4250 195 410 89 1710 88 2034 388 1165 217 1352 262 2060 394 2334 858 1247 90.941 463 1063 217 190 1232 1805 34 2153 188 4304 279 706 230 1119 36 547 1037 2366 318 ISS6 84 390 70 2197 556 2085 124 655 130 750 1609 1075 46 107 41 175 43 476 851 106'i 208 575 79 1218 158 407 706 3012 1071 1061 657 548 575 1445 65 633 68 2282 123 1919 193 1454 896 422 132 1341 177 311 116 1538 116 585 392, 607 378 468 69 2610 1226 3074 353 404 19 2186 292 1297 35,443 144,750 109 100 499 234 419 278 78 41 164 303 57 259 25 141 145 94 53 178 237 173 226 808 58 184 170 569 33 115 73 46 9 648 145 33 74 522 113 124 1460 70 112 36 502 146 70 158 193 w 525 324 41 76 108 86 630 124 69 43 P69 201 67 194 257 22 265 2020 1753 510 317 743 750 1500 237 2873 1290 1042 2994 1638 4265 353 1716 2056 1192 1410 2075 2404 1244 945 1080 151 1766 2156 43W 711 990 546 2431 1908 397 210.9 2096 646 799 1161 166 169 474 1012 576 1211 445 2945 1071 569 1414 629 2248 1927 1446 425 1355 349 .1 547 661 500 2616 3088 4o'6 2184 1321 2057 1716 452 235 719 w 1340 250 2891 1216 1046 2922 1636 4120 345 1572 2016 1142 1390 1973 2274 1202 919 894 152 1513 2109 4218 488 1135 522 2148 1716 379 1831 1975 464 737 1024 131 182 462 835 488 1244 331 2760 877 504 1252 618 2193 1866 1378 341 1327 263 1519 504 630 438 2600 3072 275 2145 1289 43 100 534 314 415 400 223 40 138 301 31 280 25 272 209 227 54 199 200 260 347 857 83 355 209 861 75 202 291 30 34 865 311 54 348 630 305 137 1500 77 105 50 729 234 44 235 436 723 568 515 56 167 160 162 710 134 115 60 145 2Z7 232 77 198 369 60 272 so 64 475 233 385 303 63 40 156 247 35 211 23 126 172 84 35 156 182 157 237 816 ,54 163 210 610 29 107 68 91 10 578 131 36 66 514 122 75 1364 41 118 38 ,557 145 77 121 205 .529 504 350 45 109 100 93 626 109 31 38 51 244 120 61 180 186 24 310 ,702 1761 1.411 513 297 769 710 1160 168 2828 1199 879 2170 1324 3658 390 708 1903 1069 1334 1735 1966 1087 830 724 230 1576 2096 4056 611 1019 548 2125 1616 392 1714 1885 411 567 908 120 155 370 785 468 1210 273 2842 940 499 1217 525 2267 1809 1192 335 1083 242 1257 577 440 522 2106 2908 405 2126 1086 - 339' 2023 412 910 472 653 254 451 362 1027 344 993 403 1403 123 280 201 2972 318 189 198 1045 1040 3107 337 1638 729 3986 166 492 1090 1672 182 2051 275 1219 255 923 357 2075 668 2502 1066 931 171 878 521 1130 130 238 796 2034 89 2152 361 3985 168 742 147 1154 8 550 888 2802 413 1937 37 399 706 1866 708 2412 363 622 308 817 1614 1796 87 178 132 191 141 482 785 1390 253 623 78 1235 291.519 349 3120 660 1228 572 883 ,546 1340 149 657 192 2316 218 1736 347 1440 721 590 353 1384 138 370 3 24 1566 48 561 467 780 148 629 571 2617 361 2990 227 522 &2 2186 473 1273 41)417 147,032 77 919 335 100 105 60 161 12 57 1328 32 103 22 402 65 127 40 131 664 57 132 1143 122 117 26 342 33 458 36 13 7 208 90 34 194 149 57 729 29 96 30 179 99 53 47 87 373 193 437 17 44 291 100 461 80 10 19 65 126 41 62 282 118 22 288 1178 914 316 233 489 618 64-9 212 2112 606 423 2145 820 3218 388 833 1619 821 1073 1827 819 746 646 895 93 1093 691 3087 257 358 523 1842 1287 225 912 1485 502 455 922 68 147 22.Q 758 501 670 300 2520 757 353 1021 403 1900 lill 728 274 726 257 756 360 262 423 1948 1550 167 551 1107 920 1772 .910 1537 667 541 317 183 643 605 416 724 913 1459 119 221 917 2807 911 790 654 946 1056 2845 841 1597 1175 4092 186 370 956 1659 473 1959 525 1060 501 1222 406 1982 1804 2355 1323 1075 352 879 354 873 264 189 1280 1658 1498 2144 1369 4179 621 496 810 1061 32 539 1189 1285 742 1705 208 250 1362 1796 1117 1916 265 603 418 710 1605 959 140 120 140 165 282 32 6 811 1012 220 438 618 1076 365 356 678 2877 833 862 719 565 749 1163 271 597 460 2259 917 1849 812 1221 776 244 738 1253 123 182 820 1433 267 562 644 471 247 364 730 25591720 2986 468 240 1657 1994 456 1158 1080 134,114 324 1688 226 1751 453 651 367 222, 528 797 328 753 103 1504 69 237 222 2982 727 1249 131 1069 358 3240 64 1637 295 3207 185 419 139 1360 124 2019 287 1070 360 1364 251 2081 291 2423 990 1226 119 769 374 988 169 231 717 1842 32 2154 192 4208 283 699 104 1149 18 524 1752 2442 321 1906 183 386 473 2117 687 1556 159 661 164 767 1566 1329 87 168 122 176 205 296 555 1200 283 570 212 1094 202 474 320 3024 606 1152 508 668 606 1402 75 633 98 2266 178 192T 319 1090 807 399 211 1358 198 338 135 1554 62 587 434 699 306 542 119 2525 281 1011 394, 424 214 2062 403 1180 34,061 142,540 405 65 334 228 326 301 59 44 47 267 8 166 24 1188 139 436 71 277 217 151 211 834 231 260 127 533 23 208 80 24 12 562 119 47 153 974 105 107 1113 39 ill 215 368 150 194 89' 184 448 405 364 40 89 100 449 651 107 42 24 63 207 126 150 2256 211 145 376 c 0 c 0 t2d M p tt Go to 27,017 Total................................. 134)227 PRO CLAMATION. Against the sections relating to railroads in the article entitled "corporations," 23,525 votes. For the article entitled "counties," 136,815 votes. o Against the article entitled "counties," 31,644 votes. For the article entitled "warehouses," 143,533 votes. Against the article entitled "warehouses," 22,702 votes. For a three-fifths vote to remove county seats, 127,077 votes. Against a three-fifths vote to remove county seats, 41,417 votes. For the section relating to the Illinois Central railroad, 147,032 votes. Against the section relating to the Illinois Central railroad, 21,310 votes. For the section relating to minority representation, 99,022 votes. Against the section relating to minority representation, 70,080 votes. For the section relating to municipal subscriptions to railroads or private corporations, 134,114 votes. Against the section relating to municipal subscriptions to railroads or private corporations, 34,061 votes. STATE OF ILLINOIS, DIEPARTMENT OF STATE. - Pursuant to the provis ions of section e leven of the schedule of the Constitution adopted by the people of the State of Illinois, on Saturday, the second day of July, in the year of ou r L ord one thousand eight hundred and seventy, I, John M. Palmer, Governor of the State of Illinois, do hereby proclaim that on the twenty-sixth day of uly, in the year of our Lord one thousand eight hnndred and seventy, the official abstracts of the vote cast on the said second day of July, in the year of our Lord one thousand eight hundred and seventy, by the electors of the several counties of the State of Illinois, for and against the adoption of the proposed new Constitution of the State of linois, and for and against the adoption of the several articles separately submitted therewith, were duly canvassed by the Secretary of State, Auditor and. Treasurer, in my presence, and that the result of said canvass was as follows: For the new Constitdtion there were 134,227 votes. Against the new Constitution, 35,443 votes. For the sections relating to railroads, in the article entitled "corporations," 144,750 votes. I 4 For the section relating to the canal, 142,540 vo t es. Against the section relating to the canal, 27,017 Votes. And it further appearing from said abstracts that a majority of the votes cast were for the adoption of the proposed Constitution, and for the several articles separately submitted therewith. now. therefore, I, John M. Palmer, Governor of th6 State of'lllinols, do further proclaim that, on and after the eighth day Qf August, in the vear of our Lord one thousand eight hundred and seventy, the aforesaid Constilrution and the articles submitted therewith, will become the supreme law of the State of Illinois. In testimony whereof, I have [S.UAL.] hereto set my hand and caused the Great Seal of State to be aflixed. Done at Springfield, this twenty-seventh day of July, in the year of our Lord one thousand eight hundred and seventy. JOHN M. PALMER. By the Governor: EDWARD RummimL, Secretary of State. 0 A P P E N D I X. [The Appendix matter Is omitted by order of the Committee on Printing and Binding. It will be found in the Journal of the Convention.] —, -- I. -,. _ _, 4' — t p I N D tC X TO THlE DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS OF THE ILLINOIS CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION OF 1870. ACCOUNTS AND EXPENDITURES OF CONVENTION, COMMITTEE ON-Con tinued. report from, in reference to per diem of members and officers of Conven tion, etc., submitted by Mr.Spring er................................ 997 report from, in reference to Postmas ter of convention, submitted by Mr. Moore......................... 857 report from, in reference to settle ment of printing and reporting ac counts, submitted by Mr. Moore..1860 report from, in reference to settle- ment of printing and reporting ac counts, referred to committee on printing and binding..............1860 report from, in reference to station ery furnished to convention, sub mitted by Mr. Hay................1862 report from, in reference to unneces sary employees of convention, sub mitted by Mr. Moore..............Kigtreet 12o0 report from, in reference to unneces sary employees of convention, re marks of Mr. Parks in reference to the adoption of................... 1231 resolution of Mr. Bayne, in reference to pay of policemen of convention, referred to........................ 1202 resolution of Mr. Bromwell, in refer ence to extra employees of conven tion, referred to..................1012 resolution of Mr. Hay, in reference to reference of report from, in re gard to expenses of convention....1790 resolution of Mr. Hay, to appoint... 92 resolution of Mr. King, in reference to appointment of janitor to senate chamber, referred to............... 1234 resolution of Mr. King to refer ac counts of convention to........... 678 resolution of Mr. Skinner, in refer ence to employment of Secretaries during recess of convention, refer red to.............................1190 resolution of Mr. Turner, in reference to care of hall during recess of con vention, referred to..............1190 resolution of Mr. Turner, in reference to per diem of officers and members of convention, referred to..... 97 ee ofoei..... 987 resolution of Mr. Turner, in reference to per diem of members and officers of convention, reported back from............................. 998 resolution of Mr. Wagner in reference to printing debates referred to..... 987 resolution of Mr. Wright, in reference to the pay of janitors, referred to.. 627 resolution of Mr. Wright in relation to ventilation of hall, referred to.. 1211 resolution of inquiry of Mr. Wagner to Secretary of State in reference to committee rooms, referred to...... 282 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Anderson, in reference to further publication of debates............16 1190 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Cameron in reference to postmast er of convention..................758 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Cross in reference to unnecessary employees of convention..........1178 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Cummings, in referenceto station ery furnished to convention......1416 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Fuller, in reference to committee rooms......................,..... 260a resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Hanna, in reference to pay of chap lains. *...6 lains................. 1029 ABBOTT, JOHN-(a Delegate from the 24th Representative District.) appointed member of committee on counties........................... 75. appointed member of committee on federal relations.................. 75 appointed member of committee on miscellaneous subjects............. 75 minority report from committee on counties, submitted by............ 307 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on coun ties, as amended in committee of the whole......................... 1521 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on banks and currency.1679 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on counties........... 1325 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on revenue............. 1202 remarks of, on question of privilege raised by Mr. Turner.............. 1129 resolution in reference to extension of corporate limits................... 679 re-olution in reference to formation of new counties...................... 93 resolution of instruction to commit tee on judiciary, in reference to ju rors and verdicts in criminal trials. 615 resolution of instruction to commit tee on judiciary, in reference to rules of evidence................. 858 substitute of, to section 2 of report from committee on counties...-....1328 ACTS of incorporation, special and private, resolution of instruction, of Mr. Rice,to committee on legislature, in reference to....................... 172 ADDITIONAL clerical force, resolution of Mr. Cary, in reference to employing.......... 70 committees, resolution of Mr. Wells, to print order of President appoint iDg................................ 100 copies of debates, resolution of Mr. Ellis to allow to members of the convention........................ 182 copies of debates, resolution of Mr. Sedgwick, in reference to furnishing members of convention with.......1339 copies of report from committee on State, county and municipal indebt edness, resolution of Mr. McCoy to print.................... 482 employees, communication from Sec retary of State -in reference to.....I..1075 members of committee on revision and adjustment, resolution of Mr. Cody requesting appointment of..1324 pay to porters, resolution of Mr. Mer riam, reference to.................. 1869 pay to secretaries of convention, res olution of Mr. Peirce in reference to................................ 1860 pay of secretaries of convention, re marks in reference to......... 1865, 1868 postage stamps, resolution of'Mr. Peiree in reference to furnishing to members of convention............ 481 postage stamps, resolution of Mr. Wendling in reference to furnishing to secretary of convention......... 367 standing rules, offered by Mr. Haines, of Lake........................... 78 standing rules, offered by Mr. Haines, of Lake, debate on............... 78, 79 ADDITIONAL LINE to section 33 of report from committee on legislative department, offered by Mr. Cummings.............. *' 608 ABOLISHMENT of committee of the whole, resolution of Mr. Wheaton in reference to...1367 of grand jury. resolution of instruc tion of Mr. Bayne to committee on judiciary in reference to........... 176 of grand juries, resolution of instruc tion of Mr. Cross, to committee on judiciary, in reference to.......... 262 of State Board of Equalization, resolu tion of instruction of Mr. Cummings to committee on finance, in refer ence to............................ 615 of State Board of Equalization, resolu tion of instruction of Mr. Parker, to committee on revenue, in refer ence to............................ 212 I ABATEMENT OF TAXES on real estate, resolution of Mr. Par ker in reference to................. 726 ACCOUNTS AND EXPENDITURES OF CONVENTION, COMMITTEE ON-Con tinued. resolution of instruction to,ofmr. Parks,inrererence to cost of con vention reporting and printing.... 1649 resolution of instruction to, oi Mr. Turner, in reference to per them of members and offleers of conven tion................................ 895 ACCOUNTS ttccounts, printing and reporting, re port from committee on accounts nd expenditures of convention, in reference to settlement of, sub- - mitted by Mr. Moore............. 1860 accounts, printing and reporting, -re port from committee on printing and binding, in reference to settle ment of, submitted by Mr. Turn er................................ 18N accounts of convention, resolution of Mr. King to refer to committee on accounts and expenditures of con veintion............................ 678 accounts of Secretary of State, resolu tion of'Ar. Parks to refer report from committee of investigation to the Governor..................... 186.5 ACKNOWLEDGEMENT of the power of the Almighty, peti tion in reference to................ 1319 ABSENCE, LEAVE OF resolution of Mr. Atkins in refer elace to grant,ing................. 859 resolution of Mr. Turner in reference to granting....................... 832 ACCOUNTS ND EXPENDITURES OF CON VENTION, COMMITTEE ON Appointment of..................... 93 bill from Postmaster of Springfield, referred to........................!529 communication from Secretary of StECte, in reference to additional em ployes, referred to...,:...I... I... 1076 ,e,marks on report from, in reference to expenses of Convention........ 1209, 1210, 1787 to 1789 report from in reference to expenses of convention, submitted by Mr. Moore............ 1209, 1649, 1787, 1861 report from, in reference to expenses of convention, submitted by Mr. Moore........... 1787 feport from, in reie",o,ce to pay of janitors, submitted by Mr. Moore..653 INDEX. ADDITIONAL SECTIONS-Continue,t, to report from committee on miscel laneous corporations, in reference to warehouses, offered by Mr. Wright............................ 1636 to report from committee on miscel laneous subjects, in reference to di vorce, offered by Mr. Browning.... 1204 to report from committee on miscel laneous subjects, in reference to homestead exemptions, offered by Mr. Goodell.................. 912 to report from committee on miscel laneous subjects, in reference to homestead exemptions, offered by Mr. Haines of Lake............... 912 to report from committee on muni cipal corporations, as amended in committee of the whole, offered by Mr. Eldredee...................... 1724 to report from committee on m nunici pal corporations, as amended in committee of the whole, offered by Mr. Haines of Cook............... 1724 to report from committee on munici pal corporations, offered by Mr. Haves.............................1675 to report from committee on railroad corporations, as amended in conm mittee of the whole, offered by Mr. Allen, of Crawford................1722 to report from committee on rail road corporations, offered by Mr. Anthony................1647 to report fromnt committee on rail road corporations, offered by Mr. Church, (3)........................1648 to report from committee on rail road corporations, offered by Mr. Hayes............................. 1658 to report from committee on rail road corporations, offered by Mr. Wells............................. 1663 to report rom committee on rail road corporations, offered by Mr. Whiting..........................1648 to report from committee on rail road corporations, as amended in committee of the whole, offered by Mr. Whiting......................1721 to report from committee on revenue as amended in committee of the whole, offered by Mr. Gamble......1616 to report from committee on rev enue, offered by Mr. Neece........1280 to report from committee on rev enue, as amended in committee of the whole, offered by Mr. Springer, 1612, 1613 to report from committee on right of suffrage, as amended in comnmit tee of the whole, offered by Mr. Anderson.........................1 98 to report from committee on right of suffrage, as amended in commit tee of the whole, offered by Mr. McCoy............................. 1298 to report from committee on right of suffrage, as amended in com mittee of the whole, offered by Mr. S3edgwick,..........,.......1296 to report from committee on selied ule, as amended in committee of the ,whole, offered by Mr. Anthony...1832 to report from committee on town ship organization, offered by Mr. Neece............................ 881 to report from committee on town ship organization, offered by Mr. Pillsbury vention,.in.reference.to 88'2 to report from committee on town ship organization, offered by Mr. Scholfield......................... 881 ADDRESS, COMMITTEE ON-i appointment of......................178or lt83 report from, submitted by Mr. Under wond.....................,01863 ADDRESS-o closing, by President........ 1870 and constitution, remarks in refer ence to printing............1842 to 1845O and constitution, remarks in refer ence to publication of.............1732 to the people of the State, appoint ment of committee to select com mittee to prepare..............,.,1732 to the people of the State, ap~,oint ment of committee to prepare....1783 to the people of the State, remarks on report from committee on mis cellaneons subjects, in reference to preparation of...............1731 ADDITIONAL SECTIONS to article on bill of rights, as reported by committee on revision and ad justmrent, offered by Mr. Bayne.... 1778 to article on legislative department reported by committee on revision and adjustment, offered by,r. Wells.1781 to Constitution, in reference to assess ments and appropriations offered by Mr. Anderson..................... 1234 to report trom committee on bill of rights, offered by Mr. Atkins...... 1588 to report from committee on bill of rights offered by Mr. Ross......... 1587 to report from committee on bill of rights, offered by Mr. Tincher...... 1587 to report from committee on canal and canal lands, and on internal im provements, offered by Mr. Pills bury.............................. 312 to report from committee on counties, offered by Mr. Cameron..........1367 to report from committee on counties, offered by Mr. Hay................1365 to report from committee on counties, as amended in committee of the' whole, offered by Mr. Scholfield....1555 to report from committee on counties, as amended inl committee of the whole, offered by Mr. Skinner......1556 to report from committee on counties, as amended in committee of the whole, offered by Mr. Wagner.....1556 to report from committee on counties,, as amended in committee of the whole, offered by Mr. Wendlinz....1555 to report from committee on educa tion, offered by Mr. Bayne.....1739 to report from committee on educa tion, as amended in committee of the whole, offered bv Mr. Snyder..1761 to report from committee on execu tive department, offered by Mr. Ful ler............................... 824 to report from committee on executive department, offered by Mr. Springer 825 to report from committee on execu tive, as amended in committee of the whole, offered by Mr. Wheaton.1386 to report from committee on judi ciary. offered by Mr. Anthony.....1193 to report from committee on judi ciary, offered by Mr. Browning.. 1144 to report from committee on judi ciary, offered by Mr. Skinner....... 1227 to report from committee on judi ciary, offered by Mr. Tincher....... 1227 to report from committee on judi ciary, as amended in committee of the Whole, offered bv Mr. Tincher..1496 to report from committee on j'udi ciary, offered by Mr. Wendling. 1194 to report from committee on judi ciary, as amended in committee of the whole, offered by Mr. Wendling.1497 to report from committee on judi ciary, as amended in committee of the whole, offered by Mr. Wheaton.1416 to rep(ort from committee on legisla tive department, as amended in committee of the whole, offered by Mr. Bromwell........... 960 to report from committee on legisla tive department, offered by Mr. Haines of La k e........... 636 to report from commrittee on legisla tive department, offered by Mr. Hayes............................. 57S2 to report fro~m comnmittfee on legisla tive department~ offered by Mr. Neece....................................., 605 to report from committee on legisla tive department, as amended in committee of whole, offered by Mr. Wall.............................. 930 -to report from committee on military affairs~ offered by Mr. Fox.....865 to report from committee on mili tary affairs, offred by Mr. Vande venter..... *.................8f63, 865 to report. from committee on mili tary affairs, offered by Mr. Wend ling..............86 to report from'com'mittee'on' miscel-86 laneous subjects, in reference to di vorce, offered by Mr. Browning....1692 to report from committee on miscel laneous corporations, in reference to warehouses, offered by Mr. Gamns ble......................................1636 Xo report from committee on miscel laneous corporations, ofdied by Mr. Washburn 1............667 I 2 ADDRESS-Continued. to the people of the State, report from committee on miscellaneous subjects, in reference to prepara tion of............................ 1731 to the people of the State, report from committee appointed to select committee to prepare, submitted by Ml-. Cummilags................. 1783 to the people of ttie State, resolution of Mr. nglish in reference to paration of................... re.-,,.7 to the people of the State, resolution of Mr. Sedgwick to appoint com mittee to prepare................. 1708; ADJOURNMENT remaiks in reference to.............. 1242 remarks of Mr. Browning, in refer ence to............... 190 resolution of Mr. Browning, in refer ence to................... 615 of convDtion, resolution i' k'. BroWDlDg in reference to hour or.. 141 resolutions of Mr. Euglish in refe redce to.............. 86, 987 resolution of Mr. Bei in refer ence to........................... 87 resolution of Mr. Skinner in refer ence to........................... 745 resolution of Mr. Underwood in refer ence to.................... 482 resolution of Mr. Wells in re eu to................................. 453 sine die, of convention, remarks in reference to....................... 1859, sine die, of convention, resolution of Mr. Brown in reference to......... 249 sine die, of convention, resolution'of Mr. Bryan in reference to......... 1859 sine die, of convention, resolution of Mr. flaines, of Lake, in reference to................................. 1w sine die, of convention, resolution of Mr. Pari,-s in reference to.......... 1677 sine die, of convention, i-esoliitlon of Mr. Vandeventer in reference to....1861 sine die, of convention, resolution of Mr. Wagner in reference to........ 1595 sine die, ot convention, resolutionj of Mr. Wall in reference to........... 1233 sine die, of convention............... 1870 ADMINISTRATION of oath of office to members of con ventioii, by Judge Samuel H. Treat, 47,49 of oath of office to officers of con vention........................... 54 of oath of office, remarks on........ 45 of oath of office, resolution of Mr. Turner of invitation to State ofra cers to be present at............... 45 ADMINISTRATOR public, resolution of Mr. Snyder in reference to election of............ 1032 ADOPTION,of amei)dinent&.to constitution, res olution of Mr. Wells in reference to 1156 of constitution, proposition in refer ence to............................ 1833 of constitution, reinar)Ks of Mr. Bi-om well on proposition in reference to. 1833 of report from committee on ac counts and expenditures of c,)n. vention, in reference to unneessa;ry employees of convention, remarks of Mr Parks in reference to.....1231 of rule 56, limiting speeches, remarks in reference to..................... 509 of rule 50, limiting speeebe,-, remarks on submission of report from com mittee on rules in reference to.... 490 of rule 50, limiting speeches, report from committee on rules, in refer ence to............................ 490 ADULTER&TION petition in reference to the evils of.. 305 AFTERNOON SESSIONS OF CONVEN TION resolution of Mr. Allen of Crawford, in reference to.................... 261 resolution of Mr. Archer, in rei'er e-nee to......................I 258 resolution of Mr. Browipng, in rel'er-' 2 eiace to........................... n INDEX. 3 AGRICULTURF- ALLEN, JAMES C., of Crawford, (a Delagate ALLEN, JAMES C., of Crawford. -Con ALLEN, JAMES C., of Crawford, (a Delagate from the 11th Representative District).: additional section to report from committee on railroad corpora tions, as amended in committee of the whole, offered by.............1722 amendment of. to article in reference to oath of office..................1387 amendment of, to lines 10, 22 and 28 of section 33, of report from committee on legislative depart me nt..................... 587, 608, 612. amendment of, to resolution of Mr. Church, in reference to oath of office.............................. 7 amendment of, to resolution of Mr. Parks, in reference to adjournment sine die of convention.............. 1677 amendment of, to section 4 of report from committee on counties, as amended ip committee of the whole...................... 1531 amendment of, to section 3 of report from committee oti education.....1737 amendment of to section 27 of re port from commiittee on judiciary, as amended in committec of the whole..................... 1470 amendment of, to sections 1, 3, 7, 10, 12, 32, 37, 38 and 43 o f report from committee on legislative de partment.....................497, 506, 721, 728, 529, 573, 637,642, 680 amendment of, to section 5 of report from committee on legislative de partment, as amended in commit tee of the whole................. 941 amendment of, to section 5, of report from committee onl miscellaneous corporations in reference to ware houses............................ 1634 amendment of; to section 4 of report from committee on railroad cor porations, as amended in committee of the whole.....................1709 amendment of, to section 4 of report from committee on revenue, as amended in committee of the whole.............................1601 oamendment of, to substitute of Mr. Kini, to section 18 of report from commnittee on judiciary, as amended in committee of the whole.........1464 a appointed member of committee on congressional apportionment...... 75 appointed member of committee oni legislature.....................7... 75 appointed member of committee on railroad corporations.............7 amnm. 75 cappointed member of committee on r ules of convention.............. 56 appointed member of committee on state, county and municipal indebt edness............................. 75 appointed member of committee to prepare an address to the people of the State.......................1783 communication on the subject of private ways, submitted by........ 117 leave of absence granted to..........1009 remarks of, in debate in convention onreport from committee on coun ties, as amended in committee of the whole........1519, 1531, 1535, 1543b remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on ex ecutive as amended in committee of the whole,...1371, 1372, 1377, 1378, 1379 a remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on jo diciary, as amended in committee of the whole..................1440 1454, 1456, 1466, 1483, 1498 remarks of; in debate in convention on report from committee on leg islative departecunt as amended in committee of the whole........... 918 remarks of} in debate inl convention on report from committee on mis cellaneous corporations, in refero ence to warehouses as amended in committee of the whole......1695, 1696 remarks of, in debate in convention on report fi-om committee on mis cellaneous subjects, in reference to homestead exemption, as amended in committee of the whole........16590: remarks of,in debate in convention on b report from committee on railroad corporations, as amended in com mittee of the whole...............1709 Quincy, Illinois............... -1715, 1718, 172c ALLEN, Wet. J., of Alexander, (a Delegate from the 1st Representative District.) amendment of to amendment of Mr. Benjamin to section 4 of report from committee on counties, as amended in committee of the whole............................. 1522 amendment of section 7 of report from committee on bill of rights... 1568 amendment of, to section 7 of report from committee on executive de partment.......................... 8 amendment of to substitute of Mr. Browning to section 7 of report from committee on judiciary, as amended in committee of the whole............................. 1431 appointed member of committee on bill of rights................. 75 appointed member of judiciary com mittee............................ 75 appointed member of committee on municipal corporations............ 75 appointed member of committee on railroad corporations...... 75 appointed member of committee to prepare an address to the people of the State....................... 1783 leave of absence granted to...194, 487, 851 petition in reference to sectarian preferences, submitted by......... 798 proposition in reference to municipal subscriptions, submitted by....... 1845 remarks of, in debate in convention on report fhom committee on coun ties, as amended in committee of whole........... 15 2 2 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on judi ciary, as amended in committee of the whole......... 1402, 1431, 1432, 1436 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on leg islative department, as amended in committee of the whole........ 931, 968 remarks of, in debate it reference to election of assistant doorkeeper of convention........................ 53 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on bill of rights........1560, 1568, 1572, 1576, 1578 remarks of, in debate on report of committee on bill of rights and mis cellaneous subjects in reference to preamble.......................... 276 remarks, of, in debate on report from committees on canal and canal lands and on internal improve ments...................... 461, 462, 475 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on executive depart ment.............................. 809 remarks o,; in debate on report from committee on judiciary............ 992 1001, 1010, 1115, 1125, 1135, 1136 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on legislative depart ment............. 619, 650, 687, 697, 706 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on revision and adjust ment on article on counties,..................1836 rmarla of, in debate on report from committee on state, county anld municipal indebtedness, as amended in committee of the whole..12$ remarks of, in debate on resolutions in reference to oath of office.................... 9 remarks of, on announcement of thle death of Hon. H. W. Billings..................1448 remarks of, on proposition in refer ence to municipal subscriptions....1845 report froem committee on bill dt rights, submitted by.................,.....1440 resolution in reference to establish men t of State University.................116 resolution in reference to oath of office 9 resolution to grant use- of Hall of Representatives for lecture.................... 127 ~esolution of instruction to commrit tee on legislative department, in reference to county representation. 82 substitute of, to proposition of Mr. Browning, in reference to rail road and municipal indebtedness of Quincy, Illinois...................:..!~67 I- 2 I I I INDEX. 3 AGRICULTURE resolution ot Mr. Anthony, in refer ence to establishment of bureau of. 153 and statistics, resolution of Mr. Haines, of Lake, to elect commis sioner of........................... 212 ALLEN, JAMES C., of Crawford. —Con tinued. remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on rev enue, as amended in committee of the whole.............. 1610, 1613, 1615 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on banks and currency.lf8l remarks of, in debate on report from committee on bill of rights........ 1582 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on, canal and canal lands, and on internal improvee ments......................... 314, 31 316, 405, 407, 408, 409, 410, 464, 466, 474 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on counties............1353 remarks of, in debate on report from the committee on education.....1736 1737 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on legislative depart ment............................ 493, 494 496, 497, 499, 503, 518, 522, 523, 524, 526, 527, 530, 533, 536, 537, 539, 547, 548, 557, 558, 566, 574; [575, 581, 593, 600, 610, 611, 616, 617, 623, 624, 635, 638, 639, 649, 664, 667, 669, 670, 6i1, 672, 680, 683, 690, 699, 723, 728, 737, 742. remarks of, in debate on report from committee on miscellaneous cor porations.......................... 166, remarks of, in debate on report from committee on miscellaneous cor porations, in reference to ware houses.......................1624,1634 remarks of, in debate on redort from committee on miscellaneous sub jects, in reference to homestead ex emption.......................898, 909 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on printing, in refereno to printing and binding conven tion debates....................... 111 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on railroad corpora tions.................... 1638, 1658, 1659 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on retrenchment and reform, in reference to convention and assembly expenses since 1862.. 229 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on rules of conyen tion.............................. 59, m0 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on rules, in reference to amendment of rule 4 4............. 191 remarks of, in. debate on report from committee on State, county and municipal indebtedn ess........... 215, 218, 221, 94,304, 305 remarks'of, in debate on motion of Mr. Church to refer to committee on judiiary, his resolution in refer ence to control of railroads, in res pect to rates of transportation... 149 remarks of, in debate on resolution in reference to printing veto messages 15' 153 remarks of, in debate on proposed additional standing rules......... 78, 9 remarks of, in debate on resolutions in reference to oath of office....3.5, 36 remnarks of in debate on resolution of Mr. Anthony, in reference to State and nationalgovernments........ 99' remarks of, in debate on resolution of 5fr. Browning, in reference to af ternoon sessions of convention.... 283 remarks of, in debate on resolution of MIr. Church, in reference to, oath of office.............................. 7 remarks of, in debate on resolution of Mr. Church, to adopt rule 49, in ref erence to effect of tabling amend ments........................185, 187 remarks of, in debate on resolution ot Mr. Craig-, to furnish members of convention with daily papers...... 181 remarks of, in debate on resolution of Mr. English, in reference to adjourn ment.............................. 87 remarks of, in debate on resolution of Mr. Turner, in reference to con vention printing................ 94, 96 remarks otf in debate on resolution of Mr. Wells, in reference to elec tion of delegate to convention in - place of Hon. William A. Patterson. deceased..............,,.!99 4 I tI) X. ALLEN, JAMES C., of Crawford.- Con tinued. remarks of, on submission of report from committee on legislative depart ment............................. 293 remarks of, in submission of amended report from committee on legisla tive department..........3......... 392 remarks of, on submission of report of committee on right of suffrage 158, 159 report from committee on bill of rights, in reference to the distribu tion of the powers of the State gov ernment, submitted byadpi............ 281 report from committee on legislative department, submitted by......... 291 report, amended, from committee on legislative department, submitted by.............................. 393 report fiom committee on rules, in reference to amendment of rule 44, submitted by..................... 191 resolution authorizing committee on legislative department to employ clerk....................,........ 113 resolution authorizing employment of clerks by committees.............. 322 resolution in reference to afternoon sessions of convention............. 261 resolution in reference to manner of printing reports from committees.. 251 resolution in reference to printing ve to messages........................ 151 resolution in reference to reference of constitution to appropriate com mittees........................... 81 resolution of instruction to commit tee on revenue, in reference to tax ation of church property used for other than religious purposes...... 213 resolution of instruction to committee on revenue, to amend constitution in reference to taxation of tele graph stock, &c...................... 263, 2 resolution of Mr. Snyder, in reference to legislative assembly, reported back from committee on legislative department, by.................... 141 resolution to appoint committee to prepare rules of convention.................... 51 substitute of, to lines 23 and 24 of sec tion 33 of report from committee on legislative department........... 609 substitute of, to section 8 of report from committee on counties, as amended in committee of the whole.1519 substitute of, to section 7 of report from committee on legislative de partment......................737 substitute of, to section 1 of report from committee on nmiscellaneous subjects, in reference to homestead exemptions, as amended in commit tee of the whole.................... 1690 AMsbENDMENTS resolution of Mr. Church to adopt rule 49 in reference to the effect of tabling............................ 184 to constitution, in reference to fees, &c., remarks on................... 97 to constitution, &c., resolution of Mr. Eldredge in regard to refer ence of, to committees....173, 176 to constitution, resolution of Mr. Wait in reference to wording of,, 95 to constitution, resolution of Mr. Wall, in reference to ratification of. 55 to constitution, resolution of Mr. Wells, in reference to adoption of..1156 to constitution, resolution of Mr. Wells, in reference to ratification of. 56 to constitution, resolution of instruc tion of Mr. Hayes to several commit. tees, in reference to consideration of................................. 81 to constitution, future, resolution of instruction of Mr. Underwood to judiciary committee, in reference to. 94 to federal constitution, resolution of Mr. Wendling, in reference to rati fication of......................... 161 to the laws, resolution of inquiry of Mr. Atkins, to clerk of supreme court for third grand division of the State of Illinois, in reference to re port of judges of circuit courts in relation to....................... 9$ to national constitution, resolution of Mr. Ellis, in reference to....:...... 98 to state and national constitution, re solution of Mr. Turner, in reference to ratification o f................... 262 certain, to constitution, communica tion in reference to.............. 262 certain, to constitution, resolution of Mr. Hayes, in reference to......... 57 certain, to constitution, resolution of Mr. Hayes, in reference to, called up and referred to appropriate com mittees............................ 7, further to constitution, resolution of Mr. Church, in reference to........ 1865 proposed to constitution, resolution of Mr. Cameron, to rescind reso lution to print.................... 11. proposed to judiciary article, offered by Mr. Wells...................... 11l7? OF MR. ALLEN, OF ALEXANDER to amendment of Mr. Benjamin, to section four of report from com mittee on counties, as amended in committee of the whole........... 15222 to section seven of report from com mittee on bill of rights........... 1568 to section twenty-two of report from committee on executive de partment....................... 809 to substitute of Mr. Browning to section seven of report from com ittee on judiciary, Ias amended in committee of the whole.......... 1431 OF MR. ALLEN, OF CRAWFORD to article in reference to oath of office........................... 13S' to lines ten, twenty-two and twenty eight, of section thirty-three, of report from committee on legisla tive department...............587, 608, 612 to resolution of Mlr. Church, in refer ence to oath of office................. 7 to resolution of Mr. Parks, in refer ence to adjournment, sine die, of convention.......................1677 to section four of report from com mittee on counties, as amended in committree of the whole...........1.....t534 to section four of report from com mittee on education..................1737 to section twenty-seven of report from committee on judiciary, as amended in committee of the whole.........................14751 to sections three, seven, ten, twelve, thirty-two, thirty-seven, thirty eight and forty-three, of report from committee on legislative de partment......................506, 721 728, 529, 573, 637T, 642, 669, 680 to section 5 of report from committee on legislative department, as amended inl committee of the whole......................... 941 to section 5 of report from commit tee on miscellaneous corporations, in reference to warehouses.....*...1634 AMALGAMATION resolution of instruction of Mr. At kins to committee on legislative department, in reference to........ 211 AMENDED CONSTITUTION resolution of Mr. Bryan in refer ence to manner of submission of, to the people..................... 135 AMENDING RULES OF CONVENTION remarks on report from committee on rules, in reference to.......... 1234 report from committee on rules, in reference to...................... 1233 AMENDMENT 15th, resolution of Mr. Cameron in reference to....................... 174 15th, resolution of Mr. McDowell in reference to....................... 175 15th, resolution of instruction of Mr. Haines, of Lake, to committee on federal relations in reference to ratification of................. 77o ian165 o of constitution, resolution of instruc tion!of Mr. Fuller to committee on future amendments, in refer ence to mode of.................. 139 of pleadings,,&c., resolution of Mr. Wendling in reference to.......... 261 proposed to constitution, in refer ence to the consideration of rail roads as public highways, offered by Mr. Church.................... 1320 of rules, remarks in reference to..1368, p 1639 remarks of, in debate on resolution of instruction to committee on rev enue, in reference to taxation of church property used for other than religious purposes............ 223 remarks of, in debate on the subject of printing prayers offered in con vention........................... 172 remarks of. in reference to effect of motion to adjourn................. 1548 remarks of in reference to amendment of rule 44......................... 190 remarks of, in reference to protests..1528 remarks of, in reference to report from committee on revision and ad justment.......................... 1688 remarks of, on announcement of death of Hon. W. H. Patterson.... 195 remarks of, on article on distribution of the powers of the State govern ment.............................. 2,9 remarks of, on election of President, pro tern............................ 4 remarks of, on communication from State Agricultural Society, in refer ence to the establishment of State Bureau of Statistics................ 128 remarks of, on motion of Mr. Wag ner for previous question......1540 remarks of, on question of privilege.. 167 remarks of on report from commit tee on accounts and expenditures of convention in reference to pay of janitors........................ 653 remarks of, on report from commit tee on printing and binding, in ref erence to printing journal, laws etc....................2,.248, 249 remarks of, on report from commit tee on printing and binding, in ref erence to publication of constitu tion...............................17 05 remarks of on resolution of Mr. Bryan, in reference to order of busi ness................... 453 remarks of, on resolution of Mr. Cam eron, to appoint committee on mines and mineral interests........ 82 remarks of, on resolution of Mr. Cary in reference to employing additional clerical forc e......... 71 remarks of, on resolution of Mr. Cary, in reference to employing engross ing clerk.......................... 77 remarks of, on resolution of Mr. Hay, to appoint committee on accounts and expenditures of convention... 92 remarks of, on resolution of Mr. Kirk patrick, in reference to emplov ment of clerks by standing commit tees................................ 90 remarks of, on resolution of Mr. Washburn, to refund value of post age stamps........... 346 remarks of, on resolution of Mr. Whea ton, in reference to limitation of debate in the committee of the whole............................. 614' remarks of, on resolution authorizing employment of clerks by commit tees............... 3 remarks of, on resolution of inquiry of Mr. Truesdale to Aulditor of State, in reference to appropriations by Gen eral Assembly................. 323 remarks of, on resolution of instruc tion of Mr. Gloodhue to committee on revision and adjustment, in re ference to section 6 of article on right of suffrage.............1662 remarks of, on resolution of instruc tion to committee on revenue, in re ference to taxation of church pro perty used for other than religious purposes....................S. 213 remarks of, on rules of convention, in reference to township and county organization,...........73, "/4 remarks of, on the subject of amending rule 44, in regard to order of busi ness................173 remarks of, on the subject of the refer ence of article 14, concerning emi. gration of people of color, to a select commnittcee......... 82 remarks of, on the subject of the refer ence of the preamble to committee. 183 remarks of, on the subject of the spe cial order in reference to certain re ports..............,~;.,.... 482; -I I'i\7DEX. 4: ALLEN, JAMES C., of Crawford.- Con tinued. .0 INDELX. AMENDMENTS.-Continued. to amendment of Mr. Springer, to sec tion 1 of report from committee on future amendments................1311 to' amendment of Mr. Springer, to section 16 of report of committee on judiciary, as amended in com mittee of the whole...............1461 to lines 7, 23 and 24 of section 33 of report from committee on legisla tive department............... 587, 609 to report from committee on canal and canal lands, and on internal im provem ents 4.......... 438 to resolution of Mr. Sed-wick, in ref erence to furnishing newspapers to members of convention......... 126 to section 8 of report from committee on counties, as amended in commit.tee of the whole................... 1519 to sections 1, 7, 15, and 18, of report from committee on judiciary..... 976, 1013, 1063,1142 to sections 13, 28 and 46, of report from committee on judiciary, as amended in committee of the whole. 1412, 1471, 1495 to sections 37 and 40, of report from committee on legislative depart ment..................... 617, 637 to section 2, of report from commit tee on state, county and municipal indebtedness...................... 284 to section 1, of report from commit tee on township organization....... 874 to substitute of Mr. Medill to section 1, of report from committee on fu ture amendments, as amended in committee of the whole..............-. 1591 AMENDMENTS.-Continued. to amendment of Mr. Church to reso lution of instruction of Mr. Church t o committee on revision and ad justment, in reference to article on railroad corporations............. 1731 to amendment of Mr. Tubbs to sec tion 2 of report from committee on miscellaneous corporations, in ref erence to warehouses, as amen ded in committee of the who le......... 1699 to amendment of Mr. Wagner to sec tion 4 of report from committee on miscellaneous corporations, in ref erence to warehouses..............1633 to article in reference to municipal subscriptions to capital stock of private corporations..............1124 to lines 13 and 14 of section 33, of re port of committee on legislative department....................... 60X to report from committee on mines and mineral interests, in reference to the protection of the lives of miners....................... 268 to section 20 of article on judiciary, as reported by committee on revis lon and adjustment.................. 181X to section 5 of article on counties, as reported by committee on revision and adjustment....................1836 to section 4 of report from committee on counties, as amended in com mittee of the whole, (2)...... 1506, 152$ to section 3 of report from commit tee on executive department....... 766 to section 18 of report from commit tee on judiciary................... 1092 to sections 1, 4 and 13 of report from committee on judiciary, as amend ed in committee of the whole......1397 1409, 1426, 1445 to sections 1, 12 and 37 of report from committee on legislative depart ment.....................497, 530, 638 to section 44 of report from commit tee on legislative department, as amended in committee of the whole............................. 968 to section 5 of report from committee on miscellaneous corporations, in reference to warehouses...........1 634 to section 4 of report from committee on railroad corporations, as amend ed in committee of the whole...... 1712 to sections 22 and 23 of report from committee on schedule............ 1805 to substitute of Mr. Allen, of Craw ford, to section 8 of report from committee on counties, as amend ed in committee of the whole...... 1520 AMENDMENTS.-Co ntinued. to section four of report from com mittee on railroad corporations, as amended in committee of the whole............................. 1709 to Section 4 of report from committee on revenue, as amended in commit tee of the whole................... 1601 to substitute of Mr. King to section 18 of report from committee on ju diciary, as amended in committee of the whole....................... 1463 OF MR. ANDERSON to article in reference to subscrip tions to capital stock of private corporations....................... 1241 to portion of report from commit tee on printing and binding, in ref erence to printing of journal, laws, &c................................ 253 to report of committee on printing and binding....................... 105 to resolution of Mr. Craig to furnish members of convention with daily papers........ 180 to section 32 of report from commit tee on judiciary, as amended in committee of the whole.......... 1475 to section 23 of report from commit tee on legislative department.......;536 to substitute of Mr. Browning to sec tion 7 of report from committee on judiciary........................... 12224 OF MR. ATKINS to additional section offered by Mr. Washburn to report from commit tee on miscellaneous corporations..1668 to amendment of Mr. Allen of Craw ford to section 4 of report from committee on counties, as amended in committee of the whole........ 1534 to amendment of Mr. Anthony to sec tion 1 of report from committee on railroad corporations..............1. 641 to amendment of Mr. Gamble to sec tion 4 of report from committee on counties, as amended in committee of the whole.......................1533 to amendment of Mr. Wagner, to sec tion 4 of report from committee on miscellaneous corporations, in ref erence to warehouses.............. 1633 to amendment of Mr. Whiting to sec tion 7 of report from committee on miscellaneous corporations, in ref erence to warehouses.......... 1636 to section 15 of report from commit otee on bill of rights................ 1584 to section 6 of report from committee on counties........................ 1333 to sections 8 and 5 of report from com mittee on counties, as amended in committee of the whole.1508, 1520, 1537 to section 1 of report from committee on judiciary....................... 982 to section 18 of report from commit tea on legislative department, as amended in committee of the whole. 952 to substitute of Mr. Allen, of Crawford, to section 8 of report from committee on counties, as amended in committee of the whole..................... 1520 Or Mr. BAYN- to reports of committee on bill of rights and miscellaneous subjects, in reference to p-eamble........................te 233 to section 1 of report from committee on bill of rights.................... 1559 to section 20 of report from commit tee on executive department.......tseto 791 to section 31 of report from commit tee on legislative department......fo 566 to section 5 of report from commit tee on miscellaneous corporations in reference to warehouses......t 1635 to section 5 of report from commit tee on miscellaneous corporations, in reference to warehouses, as amended in committee of the whole.............................. 1701 OF MR. BENJAMIN to amendment of Mr. Anthony to section 6 of report from committee on counties, as amended in com mittee of the whole............... 1517 Or MR. BROMWILL to additional section offered by Mr. Vandeventer to report from com mittee on military affairs.......... 863 to proposition of Mr. Browning in reference to railroad and municipal indebtedness of Quincy, III........ 1814 to report from committee on rules, in, reference to the adoption of rule 50, limiting speeches.................. 490 to resolution of Mr.,anna in refer ence to election of delegate to con vention in place of Hon. B. W. Hen ry............... 1031 to resolution of Mr. Snyder, in refer ence to payment of temporary em ployees of convention............. 92 to resolution of inquiry of Mr. Good hue to Secretary of State, State Treasurer and Auditor, in reference to their services and fees........... 146 to section 32 of article on judiciary, as reported by committee on revis ion and adjustment................1813 to section 10, 11, 13 and 16 of report from committee on judiciary.......1029 1039, 1119, 1124, 1195 to section 13 of report from commit tee on judiciary, as amended in committee of the whole...........1417 to sections 5 and 10 of report from committee on legislative depart ment...................... 698, 725, 729 to section 5 of report from committee on legislative department, as amended in committee of, the whole............................ 941 to section 1 of report from committee on miscellaneous subjects, in refer ence to homestead exemptions.... 902 OF MR. ANTHiONY to line 14 of section 33, of report from committee on legislative depart ment.............................. 605 to constitution, in reference to fees, &c................................ 97 to constitution, relative to Cook county judiciary................... 96 to proposition of Mr. Browning in reference to railroad and municipal indebtedness of Quincy, Ill......... 1866 to report from committees on canal and canal lands, and on internal improvements..................... 454 to resolution of Mr. Allen, of Craw ford, authorizing committee on leg islative department to employ clerks........................... 113 to resolution of Mr. Allen, of Craw ford, authorizing employment of clerks by committees............. 322 to resolution of Mr. Turner, in refer ence to per diem of officers and members of convention........... 987 to section 6 of report from committee on banks and currency, as amended in committee of the whole......... 1687 to section 1 of report from committee on biTl of rights................... 1559 to section 6 of report from committee on counties.......................1362 to sections 6, 7 and 8 of report from committee on counties. as amended - in committee of the whole........ 1517 1519, 1552 to section 16 of report from commit tee on judiciary................... 1226 to sections 13 and 36 of report from committee on judiciary, as amended in committee of the whole........ 1412 1423, 1478 to sections 11 and 40 of report from committee on legislative depart ment.... 522, 626 to section 1 of r eport from committee on railroad corporations........... 1640 to section 1 of report from commit tee on railroad corporations, as amended in committee of the whole............................. 1718 to section 1 of report of committee on State, county and municipal in debtedness..................... 214, 217 to substitute offered by himself to section 1 of report from committee On municipal corporations......... 1673 to substitute of Mr. Cameron, to section 2 of report from committee on miscellaneous subjects, in refer ence to homestead exemptions, as amended in committee of the whole............................. 1691 9 OF )(IR. ARCHER — to amendment of Mr. Parks, to see tion 13 of report from committee on, judiciary........................ 1047 INDEX. AMENDMENTS.-Continued. to report from committee on bill of rights and miscellaneous subjects, in reference to preamble........... 277 to resolution of instruction of Mr. Cummings, to committee on print -ing and binding, in reference to cost of convention printing............ 532, to resolution of Mr. Haines, of Lake, in reference to submission of con stitution........................... 15H96 to section 4 of report of committee on counties, as amended in commit tee of the whole.................. 1506 to sections 16, 20 and 23 of report from committee on judiciary..1060,1094 to sections 3, 12, 31 and 33 of report from committee on legislative de partment.......... 501, 522, 571, 587 to section 18 of report from commit tee on legislative department, as amended in committee of the whole, 945 951 AMENDMENTS.-Continued. to section 1 of report from committee on revenue........................ 1201 to section 12 of schedule, as reporte d by thitte ommittee eion revision and adjustment........................ 1858 to section one of report of committee on State, county and municipal in debtedness iginrfr219 OF MR. BROWNING to amendment of Mr. Allen, of Craw ford to section 4 of report from committee on revenue, as amended in committee of the whole........ 1601 to amendment of Mr. Fox to section 5 of report from committee on ju diciary, as amended in committee of the whole...................... 1429 to amendment of Mr. Hayes to sec tion 1 of report from committee on judiciary, as amended in committee of the whole...................... 1397 to lines 13 and 14 of section 33, of re port from committee on leglaistive department..................... 591, 593 to resolution of Mr. Allen, of Craw ford, in reference to manner of printing reports from committees.. 251 to resolution of Mr. Church in refer. ence to oath of office.............. 22 to revolution of Mr. Turner, in refer ence to care of hall during recess of convention........................ 1190 to section, of report from committee on counties, as amended in com mittee of the whole............... 1552 to sections 12 and 24 of report from committee on executive depart ment...................... 780, 792 to sections 1, 2, 15 and o5 of report from committee on judiciary...... 982, 992, 1137, 1171 to sections 12, 26 and 36 of report from committee -on judiciary, as amended in committee of the whole............ 1406,1467, 1468, 1479 to sections 1, 4 and 43 of report from committee on legislative depart ment.................. 499, 730, 669, 670 to section 1 of report from commit tee on miscellaneous subjects, in reference to homestead exemptions 902 904 to sections 8, 9 and 18 of report from committee on schedule.1797, 1805,1810 to section 4 of report from commit tee on state, county and municipal indebtedness..................... 846 to substitute of Mr. Allen of Craw ford, to section 8 of report from committee on counties, as amend ed in committee of the whole.....1,520 to substitute of Mr. IHayes to section 40 of report from committee on ju diciary, as amended ii_ committee of the whole...................... 1482 to substitute of Mr. Medill to section 1 of report from committee on fu ture amendments, as amended in committee of the whole...........1593 OrX MR. BRYAN — to portion of report from committee on printing and binding, in refer ence to printing journal, laws, etc. 2.56 Xo report from committee on printing and binding, in reference to fur nishing mlanrual to conv-ention..... 1L45. to resolution of Mr. Allen of C~raw ford, authorizing committee on leg lative department to employ clerk..........114= OF MB. BUxToN — to additional section offered byr Mr. Vandeventer to report fromn com misttee on military affairs...................*. 863 to amendment of Mr. Bromwell, to section 1 of report from committee on revenue............125o to amendment of Mr. Fuller to see tion 18 of report from committee on judiciary................... 1073, 1074 to lines 1, 5, 8, 12, 26, 27 and 28 of sec tion 33, of report from committee on legislativ e department............. 587, 612 ~o portion of report from committee on printing and binding, in refer ence to printing of journal, laws, te....................... 247 tio proposition of Mir. Browning in reference to railroad and municipal indebtkedness of Quincy, 11...... — 1807 AMENDMENTS.-Continu ed. to report'from committee on re trenchrecut and reform, in refer ence to convention and assembly expenses since 1862................ 243 to resolution of Mr. Bryan in refer ence to order of business.......... 4,53 to resolution of Mr. Haines, of Lake, in reference to recess of conven tion............................... 87s to resolution of Mr. Haines, of Lake, in reference to veto messages...... 1,5, to resolution of inquiry of Mr. Arch er to warden of penitentiary, in reference to convicts pardoned du ring the past ten years............ 156 totsections 13, 18 and 32 of report from committee on judiciary......1128 1063, 1475 to section 5 of report from commit tee on judiciary, as amended in Id committee of the whole........... 1430 to sections 7, 32, 39 and 40 of re port from committee on legislative department........... 721, 573, 651, 617 to sections 18 and 19 of report from commit.ee on legislative depart ment, as amended in committee of the whole..................... 951, 920 to sections 3 and 4 of report from committee on miscellaneous corpo rations, in reference to ware houses....................... 1630, 1631 to section 11 of report from commit tee on schedule.................. 1804 to section 8 of report from commit tee on schedule, as amended in committee of the whole............ 182. to section 4 of report from commit':. tee on state, county and municipal indebtedness...................... 843 to substitute of Mr. McCoy to section 4 of report from committee on counties........................... 13'9 to substitute of Mr. Wells to resolu tion of Mr. Hanna, in reference to election of delegate to convention in place of Hon. B. W. Henry........ 103'4 to section 4 of report from committee on miscellaneous corporations, in reference to warehouses........... 1633 to section 1 of report from committee on railroad corporations..........1639 to section 5 of report from commit tee on railroad corporations, as amended in committee of the whole............................. 1716 to section 2 of report from committee on revenue...........1264 to section 6 of report from committee on revenue, as amended in commit tsee of the whole...................1607 to section 9 of report from committee on schedule, as amended in commit tee of the whole................... 1824 to section 2 of report from commit tee on State, county and municipal indebtedness, as amended in com mittee of the whole............... 1257 t'o substitute of Mr. Dement to sec tion 24 of report from committee on legislative department........ 5.55o to substitute of Mr. lianna to section 4 of report from committee on State, county and municipal in debtedness........................H. 850 to substitute of Mr. Medill to section 1 of report from committee on fu. ture amendments, as amended in commit n lttee of the whole...........1592 to substitute of Mr. Wall to section 7 of report from committee on ju diciary............................1021 to report from committee on mines and mineral interests, in reference to the protection of the lives of miners............................ 273 to report from committee on printing and binding, in reference to publi-tm cation of constitution..1732......... 7 to section 1 of article on counties, as reported by committee on revision and adjustment................... 1835 to section 14 of report from commit tce on executive department...... 781 to section 15 of report from commit tee on judiciary, as amended in committee of the whole........... 1459 to section 28 of report from commit:n..:: tee on legislative department.. treouinoM..... 5F58 to section 6 of report from commit tee on revenue...................1272 to section 1 of report from commit tee on revenue, as amended in committee of the whole........... 1619 to section 13 of report from commit tee on schedule....................1804 to substitute of Mr. Church to por tion of report from committee on canal and canal lands and on in ternal improvements.............. 336 OF MR. CARY to additional section offered by Mr. Vandeventer to report from com mittee on military affairs......... 863 t to amendment of Mr. Anderson (to report from committee on print ing and binding................... 106 to amendment of Mr. Fuller to sec tion 18 of report from committee on judiciary................. 1072, 1073 to amendment of Mr. Wall to sec tion 5 of report from committee on judiciary, as amended in committee of the whole...................... 1403 to amend me nt of Mr. Hay to section 15 of report from committee on judiciary, as amended in commit tee of the whole..................1458 to amendment of Mr. Parks to sec tion 32 of report from committee on judiciary, as amended in committee of the whole...................... 1475 to lines 26, 27 and 28 of section 33 of report from committee on legisla tive department................... 610 to motion of Mr. Cameron, in refer ence to further consideration of re port.from committee oni State, county and municipal indebtedness 273 to. report from committee on bill of rights, in -reference to the distribu tion of the powers of the State government....................... 281 to report from committee on public accounts and expenditures, in ref erence to future appropriations for statehouse........................1772 to resolution of Mr. Haines, of Lake, in reference to recess of conven tion............................... 873' to resolution of Mr. Hanna, in refer ence to printing debates........... 90 to resolution of Mr. Snyder, in refer ence to furnishing newspapers to nmembers of convention............. 62 to resolution of Mr. Wells, in refer ence to election of delegate to con vention, in place of Hon. Wm. R. Patterson, deceased............... 204 to resolution of instruction to com mittee on revision and adjustment, in reference to article on railroad corporations...................... 1731 to section 7 of report from committee on counties, as amended in commit tee of the whole..................15.5 to section I of report from commit tee on education...................1733 to sections 1 and 10 of report from committee on executive depart ment......................... 749, 778 to sections 4 and 32 of report from committee on judiciary...... 1000, 1171 to sections 13 and 36 of report from committee on judiciary, as amend ed in committee of the whole.1412,1478 6 4 OF',NfR. CHURCH Or MR. CAMERON — -~~~~~~~~I~~.' AMENDMENTS. —Continue d. sOF MR. CROSS to report from committee on printing and binding, in reference to consti-17 tution and adtress, &c............1847 to sections 1 and 7 of report from ondr< committee on counties.......1324, 1346 to sections 1 and 5 of report from committee on counties, as amended in committee of the whole....1521,1537 to sections 11 and 24 of report from committee on legislative depart ment......................... 508, 540 to section 4 of report om committee on revenue........................ 1265 AMENDMENTS.- Continued. to amendment of Mr. Cross to sec tion 1 of report from committee on tocounties...........................1324 to section 4 of report from committee on judiciary....................... 1212 to section 4 of report from committee -on judiciary, as amiended in com mittee ofthe whole........................ 1426e to section 7 of report from committee on miscellaneous corporations, in reference to warehouses........... 1635 to section 1 of report from committe e on revenue, as amended in commit tee of the whole...................,_,18 to section 22 of report from committee on; schedule....................... 1805 to section 2 of report from committee on State, county and municipal in debtedness- as amended in commit tee of the whole.................... 12M to substitute of Mr. Abbott to section 2 of report from committee on counties............................ 1328 OF MR. ESGLISIr — to additional section offered by Mr. Hay, to report from committee on counties....................1365 to additional section offered by Mr. Hayes to report from committee on municipal corporations..1676 to additional section offered by Mr. Haves to report from committee on railroad corporations..............1659 to amendment of Mr. Atkins to sec tion I of report from committee on judiciar y.......................... 984 to amendment of Mr. Wright to sec tion 6 of report from committee on counties...1339 to article in reference t3 municipal subscriptions to capital stock of pri vate corporations.......1236 to line 12 of section 33 of report' from committee on legislative depart ment...........................587, 588 to resolution in reference to recess of convention........................ 831 to section 6 of report fi'om committee on counties....................... 1333 to section 8 of report from committee on counties, as amended in commit tee of the whole.............1518 to section 16 of report fr om commit tee on executive department...... 785 to section 3 of report from committee on legislative department.......... 507 to sections 30 and.35 of report from committee on legislative depart ment, as amended in committee of the whole......................953, 963 to section 5 of report from committee on revenue........................1271 to section 1 of report from committee on right of suffrage, as amended in committee of the whole......1282, 1293 to section 4 of report from committee on state, county and municipal in debtedness........................ 847 to substitute of Mr. Hanna to section 4 of report from committee on state, county and municipal indebt edness.........:..... 837 to substitute of M',r. Neece to section 43 of resport ITom committee on legislative departmenlt.......695 Or Me. Fox; — to lines 16, 23 and 24, of section 33, of report from committee on legisla tiv~e department.............................. 608 to report from committee on printing andi binding, in reference to index to debates, etc..........................1863 to report Irom committee on roads and internal navigation.......891 to report from committee on roads and internal navigation, in refer e~nce to private roads........28 to resolution of Mr. Vandeventer, in reference to appointment of pages to convention........................ 55...b to section 1 of report from commhittee on b~ill of rights....................... 1559 to section 4 of report froml committee on education...............1735 to section 6 of report from committee on education, as amended in com — mittee of the whole............17*9 to sections 5, 10 and 13 of report from committee on judiciary,as amended -in committee of the whole..1428, 1434, ', 144 OF MR. CUMMINGS-, to additional line of section 33, of re port from committee on legislative department....................... 608 to amendment of Mr. Hart to section 27 of report from committee on judi ciary as amended in committee of the whole.........................1468 to amendment of Mr. Tubbs to sec tion 2 of report from committee on miscellaneous corporations, in ref erence to warehouses, as amended in committee of the whole......... 1698 to resolution of Mr. Snyder, in refer ence to furnishing newspapers to members of convention........... 60 to section 14 of report from commit tee on bill of rights..........1574, 1575 to sections 2, 3, 4, 12, 16, 23 and 29 of report from committee on judi c iary...... 1000, 1046, 1056, 1094, 1144 to section 13 of report from commit tee on judiciary, as amended in committee of the whole.....1444, 1445 to sections 5, 7, 32 and 37 of report from committee on legislative de partment............. 699, 731, 572, 637 to section 1 of report from committee toon military affairs................. 861 to section 2 of report from committee on miscellaneous subjects, in refer tnnce to homestead exemptions.... 911 to sections 2 and 4 of report from committee on revenue, as amended in committee of the whole...1602, 1604 to section 9 of report from committee ton schedule.......................1801 to section 4 of report from committee on State, county and municipal in debtedness....................847, 850 to section 1 of report from committee on township organization......... 880 OF MR. CODY to lines 18 and 19 of section 33 of re port from committee on legislative department....................... 603 to resolution of Mr. Haines, of Lake, in reference to recess of conven tion.............................. 866 to resolution of Mr. Haines, of Lake, in reference to submission of consti tution............................. 1596 to section 17 of article on judiciary, as reported by committee on revis ion and adjustment....... 1813 to sections 2 and 6 of report from committee on counties..1325, 1326, 1364 to sections 5, 6 and 2 of report from committee on counties, as amended in committee of the whole......... 1508 1.509, 1522 to sections 4, 23 and 30 of report from committee on judiciary............ 1212 1100, 1170 to sections 22 and 26 of report from committee on judiciary, as amend ed in committee of the whole...... 1467 to sections 7, 10, 17, 32 and 42 of re port from committee on legislative department..731, 729, 531, 573, 630, 634 to sections 16 and 40 of report from committee on legislative depart ment, as amended in committee of the whole.................... 944, 966 to sections 4 and 5 of report from committee on revenue....... 1264, 1271 to section 4 of report from commit tee on revenue, as amended in com mittee of the whole..........1606, 1774 to section 1 of report from committee on right of suffrage, as amended in committee of the whole........... 1285 to sections 4, 7, 14 and 29 of report from committee on schedule.......1794 1795, 1805, 1808 to substitute of Mr. Anthony to sec tion 41 of report from committee on judiciary, as amended in committee of the whole....................... 1487 to substitute of Mr. Goodhue to sec tion 4 of report from committee on counties, as amended in committee of the whole......................1522 OF MR. DEMENT to amendment of Mr. Cody to'sec tion I of report from committee on right of suffrage, as amended in committee of the whole...........1289 to report from committee on retrench ment and reform, in reference to Convention and Assembly expenses since 1862........................ 237 to resolution of Mr. McCoy in refer ence to further consideration of report from committee on state, county and municipal indebtedness 273 to resolution of instruction of Mr. Goodhue to committee on revision and adjustment, in reference to section 6 of article on right of suf frage.............................. 1662 to rule 53...................1369 to sections 11, 16 and 26 of report from committee on judiciary....1033, 1023,1108 to sections 5,12 and 16 of report from committee on judiciary,as amended in committee of the whole..1419,1434, 1462 to section 4 of report from committee on legislative department......... 697 to sections 4 and 5 of report from com mittee on legislative department, as amended in committee of the whole.......................... 940, 941 to section 9 of report from committee on schedule........................1800 t to section 12 of schedule as reported bv committee on revision and ad justment..........................1857 OF MR. ELDREDGE-t to additional section to report from committee on counties, offered by Mr. Hay........................ 1366 INDEX. 7 AMENDMENTS. —Cont,inued. to section 2 of report from commit tee on revenue, as amended in com mittee of the whole............... 1604 to section 9 of report from committee on schedule....................... 1796 to section 8 of schedule, as reported by committee on revision and ad justment........................... 1860 to substitute of Mr. Cummings to section 30 Of report from committee on legislative department, as amended in committee of the whole 953 to substitute of Mr. Ross to section 4 of report from committee on rail road corporations................. 1644 to substitute of Mr. WaL-ner to addi tiona-1 section offered y Mr. Bayne to report from committee on educa tion, as amended in committee of the whole......................... 17,53 to substitute of Mr. Washburn to sec tion 7 of majority report from com mittee on counties................ 1357 OV MR. COOLBAUG-U to amendment of Mr. Truesdale, to section 1 of report from committee on railroad corporations........... 1640 to section 42 of report from committee on judiciary, as amended in com mittee of the whole................ 1491 to section 4 of report from committee on State, county,,,and municipal in debteduess........................ 848 to substitute of Mr.. Authoi3y to see tion 39 of report from committee on judiciary, as amended in committee of the whole....................... 1481 OP MR. CP.AIG to amendment of Mr. Snyder to sec tion 5 of report from committee on counties, as amended in committee of the whole....................... 1542 to section 4 of report from committee on counties, as amended in com mittee-of the whole............... 1431 — 3 8 ~DX AMENDMENTS.-Continued. to amendment of Mr. Fuller to sec tion 3 of report from committee on counties.......................... 1329 to amendment of Mr. McDowell to section 15 of report from committee on bill of rights...................1581 to report from committee on printing and binding, in reference to print ing constitution and address, etc..1790 to resolution of Mr. Anthony, in reference to election of delegate to convention in place of Hon. Wm. H. Patterson, deceased............ 209 to resolution of Mr. Medill, to furnish postage stamps to secretary of con vention............................ 1232 to resolution of Mr. Parks, in refer ence to furnishing stationery to members of convention........... 66 to resolution of Mr. Wells, in refer ence to adjournment.............. 453 to resolution of inquiry of Mr. Fox to Auditor of State, in reference to expenses of General Assembly since 1862....................... 68, 70 to resolution of inquiry of Mr. Han na to Secretary of State, in refer ence to State printing, etc........ 68, to resolution of inquiry of Mr. Truesdale to Auditor of State, in reference to appropriations by General Assembly................. 323 to resolution of instruction of Mr. Allen, of Crawford, to committee on revenue, in reference to taxa tion of church property used for religious purposes................... 213 to rules of convention.............. 59 to section 2 of report from commit tee on coumties....................1327 to sections 8 and 26 of report from committee on executive departto section2 of repot from comit- meat775, 799 reeectoajunet....7 ment...........................77 799 to section25 ofreport from committee on executive,as amended in commi tee of the whole..................1386 to sections 20, 26, 32 and 36 of report from committee on judiciary.....1094 1111,l1171, 1172 to sections 5 and 13 of report from committee on judiciary, as amend ed in committee of the whole.1404,1412 tosections 6 a nd 38 of report from committee on legislative depart ment..........................721, 642 to section 5 of report from commit tee on municipal corporations.....15 to section 3 of report from commit tee on railroad corporations, as amended in committee of the whole.......................1720 to section 2 of report from commit tee on revenue..................... 1260 to section 4 of report from commit tee on revenue, as amended in committee of the whole...........1606 to section 4 of report from commit tctee on state, county and municipal indebtedness.................... 845 to section 2 of report from commit tee on state, county and municipal indebtedness, as amended in com mittee of the whole............1259 S f to substitute of Mr. Allen, of Craw ford, to section 1 of report firom committee on miscellaneous sub jects, in reference to homestead ex emptions, as amended in commit tee of the whole..................1690 to substitute of Mr. Anthony to sec tion 39 of report from committee on judiciary, as amended in com mittee of the whole............1480 to substitute of Mr. Hanna to section 4 of report from committee on State, county and dunicipal i ndebted ne~ss....................... 850 to amendment of Mr. Snyde r to sec tion 5 of report from committee on counties, as amended in committee of the whole.......................4 to constitution, in reference to State capital............................ 481 to constitution, in reference to street grades....................... 344 to first additional section reported by committee on finance.............. 1785 to lines 1, 6, 7 and 8 of section'33 of report from committee on legisla tive department.................. 587 to report from committee on printing and binding, in reference to correc tion of speeches............. 168 to report from committee on roads and internal navigation............ 899 to resolution of Mr. Allen, of Craw ford, authorizing committee on leg islative department to employ clerk.............................. 113 to resolution of Mr. Archer, in refer ence to printing certain articles of the constitution................... 1130 to resolution of Mr. Bayne, in refer ence to right of suffrage........... 100 to resolution of Mr. Cary, in reference to employing additional clerical force............................ 71 to resolution of Mr. Cody, in refer ence to furnishing additional news papers to members of conven tion............................... 134 to resolution of Mr. Craig to furnish members of convention with daily papers............................ 180 to resolution of Mr. English, in refer ence to adjournment............... 88 to resolution of Mr. Ray, hi reference to adjournment................... 90 to resolution of. Ml. Sedgwick, in reference to adjournment.......... 87 to resolution of Mr. Washburn, in reference to refunding value of postage stamps.................... 367 to resolution of Mr. Wright, in refer erence to suffrage................. 71 to sections 3, 5 and 12 of report from committee on bill of rights...... 1560 1567, 15-3 to section 5 of report from commit tee on counties, as amended in committee of the whole........... 1537 to sections 1 adid 22 of report from committee on executive depart ment..................... 757, 760, 824 to sections 18, 19, 20, 32, 89 and 40 of report from committee on judi ciary...........1078, 1094, 1170, 1184 to sections 1, 27, 35, 36 and 40 of re port from committee on legislative department......... 499, 556, 612, 626 to section 5 -of report from commit tee on miscellaneous corporations, in reference to warehouses, as amended in committee of the whole............................. 1701 to section I of report from commit tee on miscellaneous subjects, in reference jyr:to homesteadt exemp tion s............... 90~ to section 1 of report from commit tee on railroad corporations.....1638 to section 6 of report from commit tee on revenue...........1274 to section 6 of report fromn commit tee on revenue, as amended in com mittee of the whole.........609 to substitute of Mr. Browning to sec tion 7 of report from committee on judiciary.............1224 to substitute of Mr. Wall to resolu tion of Mr. English, in reference to recess of convention................. 830 OF M o. FULLER to report from committee on roads and internal navigation........887, 892 to section 3 of report from commit tee on counties............ 1328 to section 1 of report from committee on education...................... 1732 to section 1 of report from commit tee on executive department...... 760 to section 18 of report from commit tee on judiciary.............. 1064 to section 7 of report frcommit tee on legislative department..... 722 to section 2 of report from commit tee on revenue.................... 1263 OF MR. GAMBLE — to section 7 of report from commit tee on counties................... 1347 to section 4 of report from commit tee on counties, as amended in committee of the whole........... 1533 to section 2 of report from commit tee on revenue.................... 1263 OF MR. GOODELL to report from committee on mines and mineral interests, in reference to the protection of the lives of min ers........ 267 -to section 5 of report from commit tee on judiciary, as amended in committee of the whole.......... 1431 to section 2 of report from commit tee on miscellaneous subjects, in reference to homestead exemp tions............................. 910 to section I of report from commit tee on revenue, as amended in committee of the whole........... 1597 OF MR. HA INES, OF COOK — to additional sections of Mr. Ander son to report from committee on revenue, as amended in committee of the whole (2)................... 1613 to second additional section reported by committee on finance.......... 1787 to third additional section of addi tional article reported from major ity of judiciary committee,and con. sidered in debate on report from the committee on railroad corpora tions.............................. 1657 to amendment of Mr. Cross to section 7 of majority report from commit tee on counties.........,......... 1348 OF MR. Ho ANKi NS — to section 31 of report from commit tee on legislative department...... 558 OF MR. HAINES, OF LAKE — to additional section offered by Mr. Browning to report from commit tee on miscellaneous subjects, in reference to divorce 1692................1692 to amendment of Mr. Allen, of Craw ford, to section 4 of report f r om committee on revenue, as amended in committee of the whole.........1601 to amendment of Mr. Anderson to re port of committee on printing and binding........................... 106 INDEX. 8 AMENDMENTS.-Continued. AME,NDMENTS.-Continued to sections 3 and 11 of report from committee on legislative depart ment, as amended in committee of the whole.. 940, 943, to section 1 of i;'M"c'M':Ittee on miscellaneous subjects, in refer ence to homestead exemptions.... 903 to section I of report from committee 0 railroad corporations.......... 1637 to section I of report from co m mittee on right of suffrage, as amended in committee of the whole...... 1282 to sections 9 and 16 of re-Dort committee on schedule.:..... 1803,1805 to section 10 of report from commit tee on schedule, as amended in committee of the whole........... 1827. to section 4 of report from committee on state, county and municipal in debtedness...................... 851 to substitute of Mr. Hav to section 5 of report from committee on judi ciary.............................. 1222 to substitue of Mr. Sedgwick to ad ditional section to report from committee on right of suffrage, as amended in committee of the whole, offered by -Mr. Sedgwick.......... 1306 -;OF MR. GOODHUIM to resolution of Mr. Parks, lu'refer e-nee to; adjournment, sine die, of convention.........., 1677 ............. .to section I of report from committee ,on future amendments............ 1313 jo see; tion 8 of report from committee on counties, as amended in commit tee of the whole.................. 1518 to section 5 of report from committee on revenue........................ 1270 to section 1 of re-port from committee on rightof suffrage, as amended in committee of the whole........... 1293 OF MR. IECANN.& — to line 7 of section 33 of report from committee on legislative depart ment.. 587 to resolul'O'i'iii.' il' aw ford, authorizing committee on legislative department to employ clerk.............................. 114 to section 21 of report from commit tee on executive, as amended in committee of the whole........... 1375 INDEX. 9 AMENDMENTS.-Continued. to section 14 of report from commit tee on judiciary...................o l1052 to sections 28 and 32 of report from committee on legislative depart ment..........................556, 572 to s ection 1 of report from commit - tee on miscella neous subjects, in reference to homestead exemp tions.............................. 896 to sections land 5 of report from com mittee on right of suffrage, as amen ded in committee of the whole..... 1281 1295 to section 2 of report from committee on state, county and municipal in debtedness, as amended in commit tee of the whole.................. 1259 OF MR. HA.RT to section 27 of report from commit tee on judiciary, as amended in committee of the whole.......... 1468 to section 3 of report from commit tee on legislative department, as amended in committee of the whole...................... 940 to substitute of Mr. Wells to section 16 o! report from committee on ju diciary........................... 1057 OF MR. HAY — to amendment of Mr. Anthony to sec tion 13 of report from committee on judciary, as amended in com mittee of the whole............... 1423 to amendment of Mr. Atkins to sec tion 4 of report from committee on counties, as amended in committee of the whole...................... 1535 to amendment of Mr. Atkins to sec tion 1 of report from committee on judiciary........................... 989 to amendment of Mr. Browning to section26 of report from committee on judiciary, as amended in commit tee of the whole.................. 1467 to amendment of Mr. Vandeventer to additional section offered by Mr. Sedgwick, to report from commit tee on right of suffrage, as amended in committee of the whole......... 1297 to article in reference to municipal subscriptions to capital stock of private corporations.............. 1240 to lines 12, 27 and 28 of section 33 of report from committee cn legisla tive department................ 586, 591 to report from committee on public accounts and expenditures, in ref ence to future appropriations for State house....................... 1773 to resolution of Mr. Anthony, in ref erence to order of signing consti tution............................. 1861 to section 8 of report from committee on counties as amended in commit tee of the whole............. 1518, 1554 to section 4 of report from committee on education, as amended in com mittee of the whole............... 1748 to sections 12 and 16 of report from committee on executive depart ment........,..... 780, 790 to sections 26 and 27 of report from committee on executive, as amend ed in committee of the whole.. 1386,1387 to section 2 of report from committee on future amendments, as amended in committee of the whole.....................1595 to sections 1, 15, 26 and 47 of report from committee on judiciary.....+.. 975 1137, 1107, 1186 to sections 15, 38 and 48 of report from committee on judiciary, as amended in committee of the whole................1458 1478, 1496 to section 4 of report from committee on municipal corporations, as amen ded in committee of the whole.....1724 to section 1 of report from committee on revenue.............1243 to section 5 of report from committee on revenue, as amended in commit tee of the whole..........1774 to section 1 of report from committee on right of suffrage, as amended in committee of the whole...i...1 28 3 to section 2 of report fr'om committee on schedule, as amended in commit tee of the whole..........1822 to section 4 of report from committee on state, county and municipal in debtedness...............:, 4 AMENDM ENT S.-Continued. to resolution of Mr. Church, in refer'ence to morning sessions of conven tion.............................123$ to sections 3, 6, 30 and 37 of report from committee on legislative de partment............ 501, 721, 558, 6 to substitute of Mr. Wells to report from committee on printing and binding, in reference to printing constitution and address........... 1843 AMENDMENTS.-Continued. to section 2 of report from committee on state, county and municipal in debtedness, as amended in commit tee of the whole...................1257 5OF MR. HAYES to amendment of Mr. Truesdale to section 1 of report from committee on railroad corporations........... 1640 to amendment of Mr. Wall to rule 53.1369 to lines 13, 14, 26, 27 and 28 of section 33 of report from committee on leg islative department....... 591 to resolution of Mr. Fox, in reference to payment of officers and members of convention..................... 88 to resolution of Mr. Hanna, in refer ence to election of delegate to eon vention in place of Hon. B. W. Henry............................ 1031 to section 6 of report from committee on counties................... 1364 to section 6 of report from committee on counties, as amended in commit tee of the whole................... 1509 to sections 11, 23 and 26 of report from committee on judiciary.. 1039,1097,1111 to sections 1 and 16 of report from committee judiciary, as amended in committee of the whole......1397, 1463 to sections 12, 26 and 40 of report from committee on legislative de partment..............I... 529, 556, 622 to section 18 of report from commit tee on legislative department, as amended in committee of the whole 944 to section 1 of report from commit tee on miscellaneous corporations, in reference to warehouses, as amended in committee of the whole *cy - 1696, 1700 to section one of report from commit tee on miscellaneous subjects in ref erence to homestead exemptions.. 897 te o tewoe46902, 904 to section 1 of report from committee on municipal corporations......... 1673 to section 5 of report from commit tee on.railroad corporations..... 1647 to section 3 of report from commit committee on railroad corporations, as amended in committee of the whole............................. 1 720 to section 11o of report from commit tee on schedule....................1804 to section 11 of report from commit tee on schedule, as amended in com mittee of the whole............... 1828 to section 4 of report from committee on State, county and municipal in debtedness....................844, 846 to substitute to section 7 of report from committee on legislative de partment, as amended in commit tee of the whol e................... 918 to substitute of Mr. Allen, of Craw ford, to section 7 of report from committee on legislative depart ment........................ 742 to substitute of Mr. Medill, to section 43 of report from committee on legislative department............. 694 to substitute of Mr. Wait to section 8 of report from committee on coun ties, as amended in committee of the whole.........................1554 to substitute of Mr. Wells to resolu tion of Mr. Hanna, in reference to election of delegate to convention, in place of Hon. B. W. Henry....1032 OF MB. HEDINRY to resolution of inquiry of Mr. Cary to State Secretary, Treasurer and Auditor, in reference to expenses of the 25th and 26th General Assem blies,................. - - - - 429 OF Mn. HILDEUP- - to section 4 of report from commit tee on corvnties...................1329 to ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ O secio 5 freot rmcomttecosiuto, nreeecet pat OF MR. MCCOY to amendment of Mr. Truesdare to section 4 of report from commit tee on judiciary................... 1185 to amendment of Mr. Tu rner to sec tion 3 of report from committee on miscellaneous corporations, in ref erence to warehouses.............. 1631 to resolution of Mr. Allen, of Craw ford, in reference to printing veto messages........................ 153 to section 21 of report from commit tee on executive department...... 792 to section 13 of report from commit tee on judiciary, as amended in committee of the whole...........1444 to section 23 of report from commit tee on legislative department...... 533 to section 7 of report from commit tee on miscellaneous corporations in reference to warehouses.......1. 635 to section 1 of report from commit tee on miscellaneous corpora tions..............................1665 to section I of report from committee on right of suffrage, as amended in committee of the whole........... 1289 to section I of report from commit tee on state, county and municipal indebtedness..................... 218 to section 2 of report from commit tee on state, county and municipal indebtedness, as amended in com mittee of the whole............... 12M to substitute; of Mr. Wells to resolu tion of Mr. Hanna, in reference to election of delegate to convention in place of Hon B. W. Henry..... 103S OF MR. MC!DOWELL to amendment of Mr. Ross to section 15 of report from committee on bill of rights...................... 1575 to resolution in reference to per diem of members and employees of con vention.........1196 to resolution of Mr. Wells, in refer ence to election of delegate -to conventionin place of Hon. Wm. H. Patterson, deceased............. 204 to section 8 of report from committee on banks and currency............ 1679 to sections 15, 16 and 21 of report from committee on bill of rights..1581 1585, 1587 to section 1 of report from committee on education, as amended in com mittee of the whole............... 1747 to sections 11, 14, 28, 36 and 47 of report from committee on judiciary..1039 1051, 1112, 1171, 1186 to section 2 of report from committee on military affairs.............862, 86s to section 4 of report from committee on state, county and municipal in debtedness........................ 847 to section 1 of report from commit tee on township organization...... 875 OF-MR. MEDILL to article in reference to municipal subscriptions to capital stock of private corporations........1241 to lines 13, 14, 23 and 24 of section 33 of report from committee on legis lative department................,608, 609 to constitution, in reference to oath of office of memnbers of the General Assembly......................... 139 to constitution, in reference to plant ing trees on highways.......83 to constitution, in reference to plant ing trees on highways, reported back from committee on township organization............161 to constitution, in reference to rights of stockholders..........,........ 139 to portion of report from committee on printing and binding, in refer ence to printing of joulrnals, laws, etc.....e............w........w.. W"9,3 OF MR. HITCHCOCK-g to section 30 of report from commit tee on judiciary..............1163, 1170 OF MR. KING — to report from committee on rules, in reference to the adoption of rule 50 limiting speeches............... 490 to resolution of Mr. Bryan, in refer ence to adjournment, sine die of convention........................1859 I -INDEX. 9 10 INDEX. AMENDMENTS. —Continued. to resolution of Mr. Anthony, in ref erence to order of signing constitu tio n.................................... 1861 to section 6 of report from committee on revenue........................1274 OF MR. PARKER to section 3 of report from commit tee on counties.................... 1329 t to section 1 of report from committee on counties, as amended in commit tee of the whole...................1521 to sections 1, 17, 26 and 28 of report from committee on judiciary....... 990 1061, 1111, 1112 to section 5 of report from committee on judiciary, as amended in com mittee of the whole............... 1431 to sections 5 and 32 of report from committee on legislative depart ment, as amended in committee of the whole.....................9 41, 960 to section 1 of report from committee on township organization......... 882 OF MR. PARKS to resolution of Mr. English in refer epece to recess of convention..... 1831 to resolution of Mr. Wendling in ref erence to furnishing Dostage stamps to secretary of convention......... 1231 to section 25 of article on legislative department, as reported by com mittee on revision and adjustment.1780 to section 2 of report from committee on future amendments............ 1314 to section 13 of report from commit, tee on judiciary....................1046 to section 32 of report from commit tee on judiciary, as amended in com mittee of the whole................1473 to section 39 of report from commit tee on legislative department...... 643 OF MR. PEIRCE to article in reference to municipal subscriptions to capital stock of pri vate corporations..................1235 to first additional section reported by committee on finance...........1785 to report from committee on federal relations..........................176 4 to resolution of Mr. Browning in ref erence to afternoon sessions of con vention......................... 283 to resolution of Mr. Vandeventer in reference to appointment of pages to convention.................... 55 to section 4 of article on executive, as reported by committee on revision and adjustment...................1781 to section 3 of report from committee on banks and currency............1679 to section 11 of report from commit tee on legislative department...... 512 to section 5 of report from committee on legislative department, as amen ded in committee of the whole..... 941 to section 2 of report from commit tee on miscellaneous subjects, in reference to homestead exemp tions........................ 910 to section 9 of report from commit tee on schedule.................1801 to substitute of Mr. Browning to sec tion 7 of report from committee on judiciary, as amended in commit tee of the whole..............1431 Or MR PERLEY-t to resolution of Mr. Allen of Craw ford, in reference to printing veto messages.....................152 to section 8 ofiarticle on counties, as reported by committee on revision and adjustment.................83 te on e u departmet. 7 to sections 6 and 23 of article on judi ciary, as reported by committee on revision and adjustment.....1811, 1812 to section 10 of article on legislative department. as reported by commit tee on revision and adjustment.... 1779 to sections 1 and 2 of article on reve nue, as reported by committee on revision and adjustment........ 1834 to section 8, of report from commit tee on counties, as amended in committee of the whole........1519 to section 1 of report from committee on education.....................1733 to section 12 of report from commit tee on executive department....... 781 OF MR. RBoaINSON to section 12 of report from commit tee on judiciary.................. 104 to section 3 of report from commit tee on legislative department, as amended in committee of the whole 93D OF MR. MERRIAM to additional section offered by Mr. Anthony, to report from committee on railroad corporations............ 1648 to amendment of Mr. Hildrup to sec tion 4 of report from committee on counties........................... 1330 to amendment of Mr. McCoy to sec tion I of report from committee on miscellaneous corporations......... 1665 to lines 26, 27.and 28 of section 33, of report from committee on legisla tive department.................. 612 to resolution of inquiry of Mr. Fox to Auditor of State, in reference to expenses of general assembly since 1869............................... 70 to section 16 of report from commit tee on Judiciary, as amended in committee of the whole.......... 1460 to sectiop 33 of report from commit tee on legislative department...... 576 OF MR. Ross to amendment of Mr. Hay to section l of report from committee on right of suffrage, as amended in commit tee of the whole................... 12, to article in reference to municipal subscriptions to capital stock of private corporations.............. 1241 to resolution of Mr. English, of in quiry to county clerks in reference to railroads....................... 182 to resolution of Mr. Hay in reference to the election of supreme court judges.......................1799 to resolution of Mr. Turner in refer ence to convention printing....... 94 to section 10 of article on counties, as reported by committee on revision and adjustment................... 18, to section 6 of report from committee on banks and currency............. 1679 to sections 6 and 15 of report from com mittee on bill of rights....... 1568, 1575 to section 6 of report from.committee on counties, as amended in commit tee of the whole................... 1516 to section 9 of report from commit tee on executive department....... 775 to sections 26,29 and 36 of report from committee on judiciary.. 1107, 1145,1171 to section 36 of report from commit tee on judiciary, as amended in com mittee of the whole.......... 1478 to sections 2 and 4 of report from com mittee on legislative department.500,730 to section 1 of report from committee on military affairs................. 861 to section I of report from committee on railroad corporations........... 1637 to section 9 of report from committee on schedule....................... 1801 to section 31 of report irom committee on schedule, as amended in commit tee of the.whole........... b.......... 1831 INDEX. 10 AMENDMENTS.-C,)ntinued. - to section 3 of report from committee on legislative department......... 5M AMENDMENTS.-Continued.. - to reports -from Icommittees on canal and canal lands, and on internal improvements................. 417, 472 to report from committee on printing anabindiina, in reference to print ing constitution and address, etc..1790 to resolution of Mr. Wells. in refer ence to election of delegate to con vention in place of H6n. Wm. H. Patterson, deceased............... 203 to section 12 of report from commit tee on bill of rights............... 1,574 to section 7 of- report from committee on counties....................... 1355 to section 6 of report from committee on counties- as amended in commit tee of the whole.. I................ 1518 to section 10 of report from commit tee on executive department...... 779 to sections.- 10. and 26 of report from committee on judiciary....... 1028,1109 to section 18 of report from commit tee Dn judiciary, as amended in committee of the whole........... 1408 to sections 4 and 6 of report from committee on legislative depart ment..................... 696, 721, 722 to section 18 of report from commit tee on legislative departm nt, as amended in committee of the whole 947 to section 2, of report from committee on miscellaneous corporations in Feference to warehouses, as amended in committee of the whole........ 1699 to section 4 of report from committee Ion revenue........................ 1269 to section 6 of report from committee on revenue, as amended in commit.tee of the whole.................... 1608 to section 1 of report from committee on state, county and municipal in debtedness........................ 220 to section 2 of report from committee on state, county and municipal in debtedness, as amended in commit tee of the whole.................. 1258 to sectional of report from committee Ion -right of suffrage, as amended in tocommittee of the whole........... 1282 section I ofreport from committee on township organization......... 880 to t,substitute of Mr. Cary to resolu ti'on of Mr. Craig, to furnish mem bers of convention with daily pa pers.......................!...... 181 OF MR. PILLSBURY to report from committees on canal and canal lands and on internal im provements....................... 312 to sections 11 7 and 30 of report from committee on legislative depart ment:..... if Wd ii. i......499,742, 558 to sections o report from committee on schedule, as amend ed in committee ofthe whole...... 1828 1829 to substitute of Mr. Anthony to sec tion 32, of report from committee on legislative departmei*............. 573 to sbrtitute of Mr. Fox to section 3 of report from committee on legis lative department................. 506 OF MR. RICH-. to amendment of Mr. Atkins to sec tion 6 of report from committee on counties.......................... 1334 to resolution of Mr. Anthony, in refer ence to election of delegate to con vention in place of on. Wm. R. Patterson, deceased............... 299 to section 11 of article on corpora tions, as reported by committee on revision and adjustment........... 1M to section 8 of report from committee on counties, as amended in commit tee of the whole.................. 1554 to section 28 of report from commit tee on executive department...... 792 to sections 32 and 36 of report from committee on legislative depart ment........; " aid........ 575,612 to section 5 of Po m commit tee on railroad corporations, as amended in committee of'the whole............................. 1721 to substitute of Mr. Church to reso lution of Mr. Wells, in reference to election of delegate to convention in place of Hon. Wm. H. Patter son, deceased...................... 19$ OF MR. MOOPLR to additional section to report from"' committee on counties, offered by Mr. HaY........................... 1366 to section,7 of report from commit totee on Icounties................. 1355 sections 26 and 28 of report from committee on judiciary....... 1111, 1112 to section 23 of report from commit tee ou'legislative department...... W to sections 1 and 2 of report from committee on miscellaneous sub jects, in reference to homestead ex emptions....................... 905, 911 to section 1 of report from committee on revenue. 1200 OP MR. NEEcim-....................... to additional section offered by Mr. Wall, to re-port from committee on legislative department, as amend ed in committee of the whole..... 932 INDEX. 11~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ AME NDMENTS.-Continued OF MR. SHERRILL to section 18 of report from commit tee on judiciary....................1079 to section 2 of report from committee on miscellaneous corporations, in reference to warehouses...........1624 AMENDMENTS.-Continued. OF MR. TINCHER to additional section o ffere d by Mcr. Ander son to report from commit - tee on right of suffrage, as amend ed in ecrommittee of the whole...... 1298 to additional section, offered by Mr. Hay to report from committee o n counties........................... 1365 to additional section offered by Mr. Skinner, to report from committee on judiciary, as amended in commit tee of the whole.................. 1426 to amendment of Mr. Fuller to sec tion 18 of report from committee on judiciary......................1073 to amendment of Mr. Gamble to sec tion 4 of report from committee on counties, as amended in committee of the whole....................... 1533 to amendment of Mr. Medill to sec tion 7 of report from committee on counties..........................13.:M to amendment of Mr. Springer to section I of report from committee on future amendments............ 1312 to constitution, in reference to codifi cation of laws, etc................ 193 to resolution of M,r. Buxton in refer ence to separate submission of the question of femalc su-ffage......... 1308 to resolution of Mr. Vandeventer, in reference to morn,:ni- session of con vention.......................... 0 to section 16 of report froin commit tee on bill of rights............... 1586 to section 6 of report from commit tee on counties.................... 136,Z to section 6 of report from committee on education..................... 173$ to sections 3 and 22 of report from committee on executive depart ment...................... 766, 809, 814 to sections 2, 14 and 46 of report from committee on judiciary............ 975 993, 1048, 1185 to sections 13 and 49 of-report flom committee on judiciary, as amend ed in committee of the whole...1412 149.5 to section 4 of report from committee on municipal corporations, as amended in committee of the whole 17T4 to section 3 of report from committee on railroad corporations, as amend ed in committee of the whole...... 171, to sections 1 and 4 of report from committee on revenue, as amended in committee of the whole...1617, 1774, to section 1 of report from committee on right of suffrage, as amended in committee of the whole........... 1294 to sections 9 and 26 of report from committee on schedule....... 1797, 1808 to section 24 of report from commit tee on schedule, as amended in committee of the whole.......... 1829 to substitute of Mr. Browning to sec tion 7 of report from committee on judiciary.....................I...... 12~ to substitute of Mr. Hannla t~o section 4 of report fromn comnmittee on State, county and municipal indebt edness.......................... 850} to substitulte of Mr. fIay to section 5 of report fr om committee on judi cia-ry...........................1214 to substitute of Mr. Underwood to section 26 of report il om commit tee on executive3 department.............. 801 to substitute of Mr. Wall to section 7 of report from committee on ju dicia2Ty..........................10l9 Or MR. SKINNER to additional section offered by him self, to report from committee on counties, as amended in committee of the whole......................1557 to article in reference to subscrip tions to capital stock of private corporations......................1235 to line 14 of section 33 of report from committee on legislative depart ment............................. 605 to resolution of Mr. Allen, of Craw ford, authorizing committee on leg islative department to employ a clerk.......................... 113 to resolution of Mr-. Turner in refer ence to care of hall during recess of ceonvention................... 1190 to sections 6 and 16 of report from committee on bill of rights.1567, (2)1585 to secti.on 9 of report from committee on executive department.......... 775 to section 39 of report from commit tee on judiciary...................117 29 to section 18 of report from commit tee on legislative department, as amnended in committee of the whol e............................. 951 t to section 1 of report from committee on State, county and municipal in debtedness.................... 215 to substitute of Mr. Hay to section 5 of report from committee on judici am y................................1213 OF MR. S —NYDI)R — to amendment of Mr. HaIies, of Lake, to section 3 of report from committee on bill of rights...... 1560 to resolution of Mr. Allen, of Craw ford, authorizing committee on leg islative department to employ a clerk....................... v. a113 to resolution of Mr. Turner in refer ence to payment of officers and members of convention........... 88 to section 5 of report from committee on counties, as amended in commit tee of the whole.................. 1539 to section 3 of refort from committee on executive department...........67 760 to section 13 of report from commit tee on executive, as amended in committee of the whole........... 1387 to sections 1 and 12 of report from committee on legislative depart. ment.................. 497, 529 to substitute of'ir. Church to por tion of report from committee on canal and canal lands, and on in. ternal improvements.............. 336 OF MR. SPRINGER to amendment of Mr. Cross to report from committee on printing and binding, in reference to constitu tion and address, etc...............1847 to amendment of Mr. Fuller to sec tioni 18 of report from committee on judiciary....................... n107 to line 28 of section 33 of report from committee on legislative depart oment.........................590, 612 to resolution requesting certain infor mation from Superintendent of pub lic instruction.....................1393 to section 22 of report from commit - tee on executive, as amended in committee of the whole......... 1386 to section one of report from commit tee on future amendments.......1311 to sections 1, 10 and 16 of report from tcommittee on judiciary...981, 1029,1060 to section 16 of report from commit tee on judiciary, as amended in committee of the whole (2)...... 1460 to sections 6 and 40 of report from committee on legislative depart ment..........................721, 617 to sections 2, 4, 5 and 6 of report from committee on revenue, as amended in committee of the whole,1604 -ns —------ 5 ~1606, 1607 Ot MR. SEDGWICtK — to amendment of Mr. Snyder to sec. tion 5 of report from committee on counties, as amended in committee of the whole...................... 1542 to amendment of Mr. Tubbs to sec tion 2 of report from committee on miscellaneous corporations, in refer ence to warehouses, as amended in committee of the whole........... 1699 to amendment of Mr. Wright to sec tion 6 of majority report from com mittee on counties................ 1339 to resolution of Mr. English in refer ence to distribution of committee reports........................... 308 to section 1 of report from committee on bill of rights...................1559 to section 6 of report from committee on counties........................ 1332 to section 20 of report from commit tee on executive, as amended in committee of the whole........... 1387 to sections 1, 11, 13, 18, 29 and 36 of report from committee on judiciary. 981 1039, 1127, 1133, 1074, 1078, 1091, 1093 1145, 1172 to sections 18 and 22 of report from committee on judiciary, as amended in committee of the whole.... 1408, 1467 to section 19 of report from commit. tee on legislative department, as amended in committee of the whole............................. 952 to section 2 of report from committee on miscellaneous subjects in refer ence to homestead exemptions..... 910 to substitute of Mr. Fuller to section 6 of report from committee on coun ties...............................1340 to substitute of Mr. Wells to section 16 of report from committee on ju diciary............................ 1056 4 INDEX. 11 AMENDMENTS.-C,)ntinued. to section 4 of report from committee on state, county and municipal in debtedness.. - -.... 847 to substitute of Mr. 2 of minority report from committee On future amendments....... 131511316 to substitute of Mr. Hanina to section 4 of report from committee on state, county and municipal indebtedness. 838 to substitute of Mr. Ttirler to section 22 of report from committee on ex e,,utive department................ 817 to substitute of -Mr. Wells to report frOL'.1 committee on -printing and bind!Dg, in reference to printing constitution and address.......... 1844 OF MR. SCHOLFIELD to amendment of Mr. Browning to sec tion 12 of report from committee on judiciary, as amended in committee of the whole.......... i....:..... 1406 to lines 22, 23, 26 and 28 section 33 of report from committee on legis. lative department............. 583, 608 to resolution in reference to essay on the origin of the prairies........... 481 to section 4 of report from committee - on counties........................ 1330 to section 6 of report from corimittee on counties, as amended in commit tee of the whole......... 1542 to section 13 of repori'i;o"M"C"o'mmit tee on judiciary.................. 1128 to section 13 of report from committee on judiciary, as amended in commit tee of the whole................... 1411 to section 20 of report from commit tee on legislative department...... 531 to sections 1 and 2 of report from com mittee on miscellaneous subjects, in reference to homestead exemptions. 904, 911 I OF INIR. TRUESDAL'N - to lines 26, 27 and 28 of ection 33 of report from committee on legisla tive department.................. 61,() to report from committee on print ing and binding, in reference to in dex to debates, &c................ 1865 to resolution of Mr. Snyder in refer ence to r(-,moval of convention to Chicago........................... 322 to section 1 of report from commit tee on education.................. 1732 to sections 26 and 46 of report from committee on judiciary...... 1111, 1185 to sections 1 and 37 of report from committee on legislative depart ment.......................... 499,,641 Op MP.. SHARP to section 4 of report from commit tee on State, county and municipal indebtedness...................... 849 to section 2 of report from committee on State, county and municipl in debtedness, as amended in commit tee of the whole................... 1257 to substitute of Mr. Hanna to section 4 of report from committee on State county and municipal indebt edness............................ 8.50 1-4 INDEX. AMENDMENTS.-Continued. to sections 12 and 15 of report from committee on bill of rights..1573, 1578, 1581, 1590 to section i7 of report from committee on counties...................1355,1361 to sections 4 and 8 of report from committee on counties, as amended in committee of the whole.....1506,1519 to section 4 of report from committee on education.................... 1737 to section 26 of report from commit tee on executive department...800, 801 to sections 9 and 13 of report from committee on executive depart ment, as amended in committee of the whole......................... 1374 to sections 1, 4, 16 and 20 of report from committee on judiciary..975,1212, 1059,1094 to section 1 of report from committee on judiciary, as amended in commit tee of the whole...................1395 to section 40 of report from committee on legislative department.......... 624 to section 5 of report from committee on revenue, as amended in commit tee of the whole...................1774 to sections 1 and 2 of report from com mittee on state, county and munici pal indebtedness......219, 221, 304, 851 to substitute of Mr. King to section 18 of report from committee on judi ciary, as amended in committee of the whole.........................1464 to substitute of Mr. Wall to section 7 of report from committee on judi ciary..............................1015 OF MR. VANDEVENTER to additional section offered by Mr. Sedgwick to report from committee on right of suffrage, as amended in committee of the whole............ 1297 to lines 26, 27 and 28 of section 33 of report from committee on legisla tive department................... 809 to report from committees on canal and canal lands, and on internal improvements..................... 311 to resolution of Mr. Hanna in refer ence to election of a delegate to the convention in place of Hon. B. W. Henry.............................1031 to section 7 of report from committee on bill of rights...................158 i68 to section 6 of report from committee on counties........................ 1333 to section 10 of report from commit tee on judiciary................... 1027 to section 4 of report from committee on judiciary, as amended in commit tee of the whole...................74 1427 to sections 2, 6, 23, 35 and 37 of report from committee on legislative de partment.........500, 705, 540, 612, 642, to section 1 of report from committee on military affairs................ 861 to sections 1 and 2 of report from com mittee on right of suffrage, as amen ded in committee of the whole.1281, 1294 to section 9 of report from committee on schedule...................1801 to sec. 1 of report from committee on state, county and municipal indebt edness.......................27 oei 217 to substitute of Mr. Hanna to sec tion 4 of report from committee on state, county and municipsa indebtedness'.... 850 to substitute of Mr. Wall to section 7 of report from committee on judi ciary........................1015, 1022 OF MR. WAGNRR-o to amendment of Mr. Buxton~to sec tion 4 of report from committee on miscellaneous corporations, in reference to warehouses........... 1632 to amendment of Mr. ~andeventer to substitute of Mr. Wall to section 7 of report from committee on judi ciary........................1021 to resolution of Mr. Medill, in refer ence to judicial division of the State........................l snr fm1011 to section 1 of report fi'om commit tee on bill of rights. 1559 to section 2 of report from commit tee on counties....................1327 to section 6 of report from commit tee on counties, as amended in committee of the whole. 1518 to section 14 of report from commit. tee on executive department...... 781 to section 15 of report from commit. tee on executive, as amended in committee of the whole............ 1374 to sections 9, 26, 29 and 32 of report from committee on judiciary...... 1027 1110, 1145, 1171 to section 18'of report from commit tee on legislative department, as amended in committee of the whole....................... 951 to sections 9 and 24 of repo rt from committee on schedule...... 1801, 1807 Or MR. WAIT to sections 10 and 22 of report from committee on executive depart ment.......................... 778, 809 to section 1 of report from commit tee on judiciary.................... 991 to seetion 4 of report from commit tee on legislative department...... 698 to sections 5 and7 of report from committee on miscellaneous corpo rations............................ 1635 to sections 4 and 5 of report from committee on miscellaneous corpo rations, in reference to warehouses, as amended in committee of the whole....................... 1700, 7011 to section 1 of report from commit tee on miscellaneous subjects in a reference to homestead exemptions. 904 to section 2 of report from committee on revenue........................1262 OF MR. WALL to lines 23, 24 and 25 of section 33 of report from committee on legisla tive department............. 609 to report from committee on printing and binding, in reference to print ing constitution and address, &c..1790 to resolution of Mr. Washburn, in reference to printing resolutions.. 88 to rule 53..........1369 to section 9 of report from committee on bill of rights...................1570 to section 4 of report from committee on counties, as amended in com. mittee of the whole............... 156 to section 3 of report from committee on executive department.......... 760 to section 13 of report [from commi t tee on judiciary................... 1126 to sections 5 and 13 of report from committee on judiciary, as amended in committee of the whole... 1401, 1443 to section 12 of report from commit tee on legislative department..... 525 to section 6 of report from committee on schedule....................... 1794 to substitute of Mr. Dement to sec tion 24 of report from committee on legislative department............ 554 OF MR. WASHBURN to amendment of Mr. Fuller to sec tion 18 of report from committee on judiciary........................... 1073 to article in reference to municipal subscriptions to capital stock of private corporations.................1236 to section 3 of report from commit tee on banks and currency, as amen ded in comlmittee of the whole....1686 to section 6 of report from committee on counties......................1333 to sections 1 and 6 of report from committee on counties, as amended in committee of the whole...1521, 1 509 to section 1 of report from committee on executive department...............?5 to section 17 of report from commit tee on executive department, as amended in committee of the whole................ ^174 to section 37 of report finom commit tee on legislative department..637, 642 to section 8 of report from committee on military affairs................................. 863 to section 8 of report from committee on revenue...............,....1280 to section 2 of report from committee on revenue, as amended in commit tee of the whole................1604 to sections 7, 9 and 11 of report from committee on schedule....1797=,1804,1809 to section I of report from committee on state, county and municipal in debtedness........ ~17at OF MR. TUBBS to section 8 of report from committee on banks and currency............. 1681 to section 19 of report from commit tee on bill of rights................ 1587 to section 2 of report from committee on miscellaneous corporations, in reference to warehouses, as amend ed in committee of the whole....... 1697 OF MR. TURNER to additional section offered by Mr. Skinner to report from committee on judiciary, as amended in commit tec of the whole................... 1426 to amendment of Mr. Benjamin to sec tion 4 of report from committee on judiciary, as amended in committee of the whole....................... 1427 to amendment of Mr. Fox to section 5 of report from committee on judi ciary, as amended in committee of the whole......................... 1428 to amendment of Mr. Goodell to sec tion 5 of report from committee on judiciary. as amended in committee of the whole...................... 1431 to amendment of Mr. Hays to section 6 of report from committee on counties, as amended in committee of the whole....................... 1510 to report from committee on retrench ment and reform, in reference to convention and assembly expenses since 1862......................... 242 to resolution of Ml'. Allen, of Craw ford, authorizing committee on leg islative department to employ clerk.............................. 113 to resolution of inquiry of Mr. Fox to Auditor of State, in reference to ex penses of general assembly since 1862.............................. 70 to resolution of Mr. Medill in refer ence to judicial division of the State.............................. 1010 to sections 1, 4 and 8 of report from committee on counties, as amended in committee of the whole......... 1502 1519, (2) 1521 to sections 3 and 10 of report from committee on executive depart ment.......................... 774, 777 to sections 13 and 39 of report from committee on judiciary...... 1046, 1172 to sections 15 and 47 of report from committee on judiciary, as amended in committee of the whole....1459, 1495 to section 3 of report from commit mittee on legislative department.. 506 to section 11 of report from commit tee on legislative department, as amended in committee of the whole 943 to section 3 of report from committee on miscellaneous corporations, in reference to warehouses...........1630 to section 6 of report from committee on railroad corporations........... 1647 to sections 8 and 23 of report from committee on schedule.......1806,1809 to substitute of Mr. Church to report from committee on roads and inter nal nav igation..................... 893 'OF MR. UN D:ERWOOD — 12 AMENDMENTS.-Continued. A'M ENDMENTS.-Contintied. to section 7 of report from committee on legislative department, as amen ded in committee of the whole.920, 942 to section 1 of report from commit tee on railroad corporations...... 1639 to section 1 of report from committee on State, county and municipal in debtedncss........................ 217 to amendment of Mr. Scholfield to section 13 of report from commit tee on judiciary................... 1133 to lines 3, 4, 13, 14 and 24 of section 33 of report from committee on legislative department.....587, 595, 609 to report from committee on canal and canal lands, and on internal improvements.................... 343 to report from committee on mines and mineral interests, in reference to the protection of the lives of miners...........'-.. 269 to report from committee on roads and internal navigation........... 884 to section 2 of report from committee on banks and curren........... 1679 INDEX. 13 _ NMET.-ofne. AEDET............................. in. AMNMNSRFRE.-Cn~u AMENDMENTS.-Continued. to section 15 of report from commit tee on bill of rights...............1575 to section 7 of report from commit tee on counties 1361....................136 to sections 4 and 5 of report from committee on counties, as amend ed in committee of the whole......1506 1507, 1534 to section 12 of report from commit tee on executive department..780, 824 to section 22 of report firom commit tee on executive, as amended in committee of the whole 1386...........1386 to section 1 of report from commit tee on judiciary........... 980, 990, 991 to sections 1 and 15 of report from committee on judiciary, as amend ed in committee of the whole.....1396 1397,1451 p to section 4 of report from commit- tee on railroad corporations, as amended in committee of the wholel715 to section 8 of schedule, as reported by committee on revision and ad justment..........................1850 to substitute of Mr. Hay to amend ment of Mr. Hayes to section 1 of report from committee onjudiciary, as amended in committee of the whole.......................,......1398 to substitute of Mr. Hay to section 7 of report from committee on coun ties................................1344 AMeOUNT of stationery furnished to convention, resolution of inquiry of Mr. Ander son, to Secretary of State, in refer ence to............................ 533 ANDERSON, WM. B.-(a delegate from the 5th Representat ive m)istrict.) additional sections to constitution, in reference to assessments and appr o - priations, of ered by...............1234 additional section to report from com mittee on right of suffrage, as amen ded in committee of the whole, of fered by.......................... 1298 amendment of, to article in reference to s ubscriptions t o capital stock of private corporations................. 1241 amendment of, to report from com mittee on printing and binding, in reference to printing of journal, laws, &o.......................... 253 amendment of, to re port from com mittee on printing and binding.... 105 amendment of, to resolution of Mr. Craig to furnish members bf con vention with daily papers......... 180 amendment of, to section 32 of report from committee on judiciary, as amended in committee of the whole.1475 amendment of, to section 23 of report from committee on legislative de partment......................... 536 amendment of, to substitute of Mr. Browning to section 7 of report from committee on judiciary............ 1224 appointed member of committee on accounts and expenditures of con vention........................... 93 appointed member of executive com mittee.......................... 75 appointed member of committee on legislative apportionment......... 75 appointed member of committee on military affairs.................... 7.5 appointed member of committee on printing and binding.............. 75 appointed member of committee to receive Gen. Sheridan.............. 1416 appointed member of committee to select committee to prepare address to the people of the State.......... 1739 leave of absence granted to......... 333 minorty report from committee on military affairs, submitted by...... 307 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on revenue, as amended in committee of the whole............................. 1615 remarks of, in debate on report from committtee on finance........ 1785, 1786 remarks of, in debate-on report from committee on judiciary...... 1188, 1194 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on legislative depart ment..............511, 536, 577, 651, 697 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on military affairs....... 860 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on printing and binding, in reference to printing of journal, laws, etc.......................253, 255 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on revenue............1253 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on state, county and municipal indebtednes s 848 remarks of, in debate on resolution of Mr. Anthony, in reference to state and national governments.....99 remarks of, in debate on resolution of Mr. Browning, in referenlce to af ternoon sessions of convention.... 28~3 remarks of, on resolution of Mr. Tur ner in reference to furnishing man uals to convention.......136, 137 resolution in reference to further con sideration of report of committee on judiciary......................108 resolution of inquiry to Secretary of State, in reference to amount of stationery furnished to conven tionSy..... n. 533 OF MR. WHITING to additional section offered by Mr. Allen, of Crawford, to report from committee on miscellaneous corpo rations as amended ia committee of the whole...................... 1722 to report from committee on mines andmineral interests, in reference to the protection of the lives of miners............................ 267 to resolution of Mr. Allen, of Craw ford, to appoint committee to pre pare rules of convention..........51 to section 2 of report from committee on future amendments, as amended in committee of the whole......... 1595 to section 4 of report from committee on miscellaneous corporations, in reference to warehouses............ 1635 to sections 2 and 5 of report from committee on miscellaneous corpo rations, in reference to warehouses, as amended in committee of,the whole.............................1699 to section 2 of report from committee on revenue...... 1263 to section 2 of report from committee on State, county and municipal in debtedness....................... 299 OF MR. WELLS to additional section offered by Mr. Sedgwick to report from committee on right of suffrage, as amended in committee of the whole........... 1297 to amendment of Mr. Cummings to section 4 of report from committee on judiciary.......................1000 to amendment of Mr. Fuller to sec tion 18 of report from committee on judiciary.................. 1072,1073 to sections 4 and 15 of report from committee on bill of rights...1566,1580 to section 5 of report from committee on counties, as amended in com mittee of the whole............... 1539 to section 1 of report from committee on future amendments............ 1312 to sections 14 and 16 of report from committee on judiciary....... 1052,1196 to sections 1 and 8 of report from committee on judiciary, as amended in committee of the whole.... 1398,1434 to section 10 of report from commit tee on legislative department...... 723 to section 3 of report from commit tee on railroad corporations, as antended in committee of the whole............................. 1718 to section 4 of report from committee on revenue....................... 1266 to section 4 of repor t from committee on State, county and municipal in debtedness........................ 847 to substitute of Mr. Browning to sec tion 7 of report from committee on judiciary.......................... 1225 to substitute of Mr. Sedgwick to addi tional section to report from com mittee on right of suffrage, as amended in committee of the whole, offered by Mr.'Sedgwick.... 1301 to substitute of Mr. Wagner to addi tional section offered by Mr. Bayne to report from committee on edu cation, as amended in committee of the whole......................... 1753 OF MR. WRIGHT to report from committee on printing and binding in reference to index to debates, &c....................1865 to resolution of Mr. Snyder, in refer ence to payment of temporary em ployes of convention..............., 92 to resolution of Mr. Snyder, in refer ence to removal of convention to Chicago.....................322 to section 6 of report from committee on counties....................... 1339 to section 6 of report from committee on legislative department......... 721 to section 4 of report from committee on miscellaneous c6rporations, in reference to warehouses, as amend ed in committee of the whole.....70 cmt orvu 1700 to section 6 of report from committee on municipal corporations........1675 to substitute of Mr. Wells to resolu tion of Mr. Hanna, in reference to election of delegate to conven ti o n in place of Hon. B. W. Henry............................. 1032 OF MR. WENDLING to amendment of Mr. Atkins to see, tion 6 of report from committee on counties........................... 1334 to report from committee on roads and internal navigation............ 888 to section 21 of report from commit mittee on executive department, as amended in committee of the whole.............................1376 to section 9 of report from committee on judiciary........1024 to section 2 of report from committee on revenue.1263 to section 2 of report from committee on State, county and municipal in debtedness, as amended in commit tee of the whole................... 1259 OF MR. WHEATON to amendment of Mr. Anthony to sec tion 36 of report from committee on judiciary, as amended in commit tee of the who le................... 1478 to amendment of Mr. Church to sec tion 7 of report from committee on counties, as amended in committee of the whole....................... 1553 to amendment of Mr. Cody to section 23 of report from committee on ju diciary..................1101 to amendment of Mr. Cummings to section 16 of report from commit tee on judiciary................... 1056 to amendment of Mr. Wright to sec tion 6 of report from committee on counties........................... 1339 to resolution of Mr. Sedgwick, in reference to adjournment.......... 87 to section17 of article on judiciary, as reported by committee on revis ion and adjustment.............. 1 813 to section 6 of report from commit-* tee on banks and currency........1680 to constitution, in reference to codifi cation of laws, &c., rererred to com mittee on judiciary................. 193 to constitution, relative to Cook coun ty judiciary, referred to committee on judiciary....................... 96 to constitution, relating to fees, etc., referred to committees on judiciary and municipal corporations........ 97 i i i ,INDEX. 13 AMENDMENTS.-Continued. to section 2 of report from committee on state, county and municipal in. debtedness, as amended In commit tee of the whole.................. 1257 to substitute of Mr. Hanna to section 4 of report from committee on state, county and municipal in debtedness........................ 850 AMENDMENTS REFERRED.-Continued. to constitution, on the subjectof planting trees on highways, referred to committee on manufactures and agriculture........................ 83 to judiciary article, referred to com mittee ofthe whole on judiciary...1130 AMENDMENTS REFERRED U- INDE ANTHONY, ELLIOTT.-Continued. amendment of, to substitute of Mr. Cameron, to section 2 of report from committee on miscellaneous subjects, in reference to homestead exemptions, as amended in commit tee on the whole... 1691 amendment of, to substitute offered by himself, to section 1 of report from committee on municipal cor porations.......................... 1673 appointed member of executive com mittee........................ 75 appointed member of committee on federal relations................... 75 appointed member of judiciary com mittee............................. 75 appointed member of committee on railroad corporations.............. 75 article in reference to management of prisons, submitted by.............. 153 article on judiciary department, sub mitted by......................... 178 communication in reference to boards of supervisors, etc., submitted by.. 281 communication in reference to the ju dicial system of Cook county, sub misted by.............1334....... 481 communication in reference to jus tices of the peace, submitted by,.. 223 leave ot absence granted to.....253, 858 petition in reference to location of railroad offices, submitted by...... 344 petition in reference to State senate, I submitted by......... 223 proposed amendments of, to consti tution, in reference to fees, etc.... 97 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on banks and currency, as amended in com mittee of the whole...............1687 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on coun ties, as amended in committee of the whole.........................1517 remarks of, in debate in convention, on report from committee on edu cation, as amended in committee of the whole......................1755 remarks of, in debate in convention, on report from committee on exec utive, as amended in committee of the whole..............1378, 1382, 1383 remarks of, in debate in convention, on report from committee on judi ciary, as amended in committee of the whole....1413,1414, 1417, 1435, 1473 1478, 1483, 1487, 1488 remarks of, in debate in convention, on report from committee on legis lative department, as amended in committee of the whole....... 936, 942 remarks of, in debate in convention, on report from committee on mis cellaneous corporations, in refer ence to warehouses, as amended in committee oi the whole........ 19700 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on rail road corporations, as amended'in committee of the whole......1713, 1714 Turnr, i reerene toperajer of remarks of, in debate in conventionWahntnsbrha. 4 offices andmember of cnven-on report from committee on rev- reakofoncmuiainfo lion.987 ~~~~~~enue, as amended in committee ofSttAgiutrloceyinrfr amendmnt of to sction6 of eportthe whole.1774. ene.to.th.establihment.o.a Stat from ommitee o bans andcur- remarks of, in debate in convention Bra fSaitc.2 reacy as aende in cmmitte ofon report from committee on revis-reakofoelcinfPrsdn the whole.1687 ~~~~ion and adjustment, on schedule...1852 o ovnin5 fron comitee n bll o rihts..559 remarks of, in debate in conventionpote. amendent f, t secton 6of rporton report from committee on sched- rmrso,o rpsdaedet from committee on co~unis 16 le~ as amended in committee of i eeec ofe,ec9 amendmnt of to setions6, 8 ad 7, the whole...........1821, 1822 reak ofonpooiinoMr of reort fom cmmitte on oun- remarks of, in debate on report from Bonn,i eeec orira ties, asamendedin commttee ofcommittee on bill of rights.....1571 an mniia inetdeso the whole. 151, 1519, 1552 remarks of, in debate on report fromQunyIl.7 amendent o, tosectins b and 6 ofcommittees on canal and canal landsreakofonqetoofpiiee34 repor fro commtteeon juiciay,' and on internal improvements....410 rmrso,o eotfo omt as amended in committee of the 411, 414, 415, 416, 462, 466, 473, 478 teo rnigadbnig nrf whole. 1412 1423 1478 ~remarks of, in debate on report from eec opbiaino osln amendent o, to ectios 11 nd 40committee on counties.......1344 ti.10 of report from committee on legis- ~1345, 1353, 1362, 1366 rmrso,o eouini eeec lative epartmet. 57, 52, 626 remarks of, in debate on report fromtoeetoofdgaetcovn amendent,of. t secion 1of rportcommittee on education.......1735 liniplcofHnW.HPatr from ommitee o raiload crpo- remarks of, in debate on report from sn eesd28 0 rations.1640 ~~~~committee on executive depart- rmrso,o eouini eeec amendm~~~~~~~~~~ent of,.to..ection.1.of.report.....t.746 toslreofpbiofces6 from committee onrailroad corpo- -749, 768, 774, 776, 780, 781, 783 rmrso,o eouino r le rations, as amended in committee ~789, 799, i;09, 819, 822, 823 o rwod uhrzn mly of the whole.1718 ~~remarks of, in debate on report from ma fcek fcmite. 2 amendmnt of to sction1 of eportcommittee on judiciary.......1021 rmrso,o eouino r from committee o state, county'1122, 1147, 1151, 1152, 1166, 1167 Wih oepo eprr n an~ muncipal idebtednss....14w 2171170, 1176, 1184, 1103, 1219, 1220.- rlig lr.3 ANTIIONY, ELLIOTT.-Continued. remarks of, in debate on report from committee on legislative depart ment............ 535 574, 575i, 588, 600, 605, 606, 670, 686, 687 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on miscellaneous corpor ations, in reference to warehouses..1631 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on municipal corpora tions..................... 1671 remarks of, in debate on report firom committee on printing and binding, in reference to printing and bind ing convention debates........1'3, 124 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on railroad corpora tions................... 16 4 5, 1647, 1661 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on retrenchment and reform, in reference to convention and assembly expenses since 1862.. 229 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on revision and adjust ment, on article on corporations...1838 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on revision and adjust ment, on article on judiciary....... 1813 remarks of, in debate on report of committee on state, county and municipal indebtedness............. 214 216, 302, 849 remarks of, in debate on resolution of Mr. Allen, of Crawford, authoriz ing committee on legislative depart ment to employ clerk.......... 114, 1L5 remarks of, in debate on resolution of Mr. Allen, of Crawford, in ref erence to printi~n veto messages.. 151 remarks of, in debate on resolution of Mr. Church to adopt rule 49, ia reference to the effect of tabling amendments......................, 188 remarks of, in debate on resolutions in reference to oath of office..... 12 1~, 35, 47 remarks of, in debate on resolution, in reference to state and national government....................... 98. remarks of, in debate on resolutions of inquiry to Auditor of State, in reference to railroads,.....912, 914 remarks of, in debate on the subject of convention printing............1205 remarks of, in reference to communi cation from Auditor of Public Accounts, in reference to railroads, etc................................ 1526 remarks ot, in reference to conven tion postage.....1231 remarks of, in,reference to furnishing copies of State constitution........,9 remarks of, in reference to recess of convention........................ 798 remarks of, on announcement of death of Hon. W. H. Patterson.... 195 remarks of, on article on judiciary department....................... 179 remarks of, on calling -Lp- resolution of Mr. Wendlinlg on the subject of Washington's b~irt hday....,.. 794 remarks of, on communication from State Agricultural Society, in refer ence to the establishment of a State Bureau of Statistics..............., 128 remarks of, on election if President of convention 50 remarks of, on election of president pro ternm.......................... (~ remarks of, on proposed amendments in reference to fees, etc..............., 97 remarks of, on proposition of Mr. Browning, in reference to railroad and municipal indebtedness of Q4uincy, Ill............. 1762, remarks of, on question of privilege. 344 remarks of, on report from commit tee on printing and binding, in ref erence to publication of constitu tion................. 1705 remarks of, on resolution in reference to election of delegate to convert iion in place of Eon. W. E. Patter son, deceased.....................208, 2099 remarks of, on resolution in reference to salaries of public officers................ 67 remarks of, on resolution of Mr. Allen of Crawford, authorizing employ ment of clerks of committees............... 3 remarks of, on resolution of Mr. Wright toemploy temporary en rolling clerk.............*... 138 i 4 I I i I 14 INDEX. ANDF,RSON, WM. B.-Continued. Resolution of instruction to commit tee on accounts and expenditures Of convention, in reference to fur ther publication of debates........ 1190 resolution of instruction to comm,.t tee on legislative department, in reference'lo future creation of offlces by the legislature........... 191 Eubstitute of, to section 32 of report from committee on legislative de partment......................... 572 xubstiti-ite of, to section 2 of report of committee on right of suffrage, as amedded in committee of the whole............................. 1294 AIMALS memorial in reference to damages committed by..................... 873 ANINOUNCEMENT of death of Hon. H. W. Billin-s.....1446 of the death of Hon. Chas. Eininer son............................... 1334 of death of Hon. H. W. BlliDgS, re marks on................. 1446 to 1451 of the death of Hon. Chas. Emmer son, remarks on........... 1334 to 1338 of the death of Ilon. A. G. Kirkpat rick............................... 1228 of the death of Ilon. A. G. Kirkpat rick, remarks on........... 1228 to'1230 of the death of Hon. W. H. Pattc-r son..a. wt..................... 195 of the e of Hon. W. H. Patter son, r-emarks on............ 195 and 196 ANTHONY, ELLIOTT-(a delegate from the Sixty-first Representative District.) additional section to report from committee on judiciary, offered by................................ 1193 additionalsection[to,reportfromcom mittee on railroad corporations, offered by......................... 1647 additional section to report from Fommittee on schedule, as amended in committee of the whole, offered by......................... 18e2 'ii section amendment of, to line- of 33 of report from committee on legislative departmedt............ 605 amendments proposed to constitu tiOD, in reference to Cook county judiciary.......................... 96 amendment of, to proposition of Mr. Browning, in reference to rail-. road and municipal indebtedness of Qtilnev, III..................... 1866 timeddment of, to report from committee on canal and canal lands and on internal improvements..... 454 amendment of, to resolution of Mr. AllCD, of Crawford, authorizing committee on legislative depart ment to employ clerk............. 113 amendment of, to resolution of Mr. Allen, of Crawford, authorizing employment of clerks by commit tees.............................. 3-22 amendment of, to resolution of Mr. \~~~~~~~~~I DX.1 ANTHONY, ELLIOTT.-Continued. substitute of, to amendments of Mr. Allen, of Crawford, and Mr. Brown iDgin, to section 43 of report front committee on legislative depart ment............................. 670 substitute of; to section 7 of report from committee on judic iary...... 1024 substitute orf; to sections 39 and 41 of report from committee on j udiciary, as amended in committee of the whole...................1480,1487 substitute of to section 32of report from committee on legislative de partment.......................... 573 substitute of, to section 1 of report from committee on municipal cor por ations......................... 1671 substitute of, to section 24 of report from committee on schedule, as amended in committee of the whole............................. 1829 remarks of, on resolution of inquiry t o Al exander Starne, trustee, etc., and t o Aud itor of State, in reger e nce to lands belonging to Joel A. Mat t eson.................... 334, 335 remarks of, on resolution of instruc tion of Mr. Neece to committee on revision and adjustment, in refer ence to section 11 of judiciary art! cle......................... 1763 remarks of, on resolution of instruc tion of Mr. Wall, to committee on roads and internal navigation, in reference to private roads......... 135 remarks of, on resolution to print United States and State constitu tions, etc................... 72 remarks of, on the subject of amend ing rule 44, in regard to order of business............... 173 remarks of, on the subject of printing constitution of United States....., 84 remarks of, on the subject of the spe cial order in relerence to certain reports............................ 482 remarks of, on submission of remon strance in: reference to proposed system of Cook county judiciary..1012 remarks of, on submission of report from committee on executive de partment.......................... 290 remonstrance in reference to proposed svstem of Cook county judiciary, submitted by...................... 1012 report from committee on executive department, submitted by......... 289 report from committee on executive department in reference to oath of office, submitted by............... 851 resolutions authorizing doorkeeper to procure necessary articles......... 81 resolution directing Secretary of State to furnish official reporters with necessary materials%............72, 81 resolution in reference to city mavors and their powers and duties......... 154 resolution in reference to common schools............................ 965 resolution in reference to convention journal............................ 1845 resolution in reference to drawing of seats.............................. 28 resolution in reference to election of delegate to convention in place of Ron. Wm. H.t PattersOn, deceas ed................................ 208 resolution in reference to election of town and city officers, eb.c......... 154 resolution in reference to establish ment of bureau of agriculture, etc. 153 resolution in reference to general and special laws of cities.............. 154 resolution in reference to geIneral and special taxes...................... 154 resolution in reference to Lake and Dearborn parks.................... 154 resolution in reference to location of offices of railroad corporations in this state...................... 148 resolution in reference to order of signing constitution...............1861 resolution in- reference to removal of officers.......................;. 154 resolut ion in refer enec to salaries of public officers........... 67 resolutions in reference to state and national governmenlt........98 resolution in reference to street rail roads...............154 resolution in reference to subscrip tions to stock by towns, counties, e t c.................154 resolution in reference to thle tenure and salary of officers, e t c......211 resolution in refbrence to use of hall of representatives for lecture8....1416 resolution of inquiry to Alexander Sternle. trustee, etc., and to Auditor of State, in retbrence to lands be longing to Joel A. Matteson.... 334 resolutions of inquiry to Auditor of State, in reference to railroads......912 resolution of thanks to, of Mr. King..564 resolution of thanks to state Officers.1861 resolution to print United States and state constitutions, etc............... 72 statistic~s in reference to the cost of the Hl1i. nois and Michigan canal sub mitted by...................... 366 mtatistics of litigation in Coo~k county, for the year 1869, introduced by... 97F I —5 ~ APPROPRIATION of private property for public use, resolution of Mr. Eldrhdge, in refer ence to........................... 93 of private property for public use, &c, resolution of Mr. Haines, of Lake, in reference to.............. 155 of private property, resolution of Mr. Sedgwickl in reference t o........... 429 of private property for public use, res olution of Mr. Wheaton in refer clace t o.. 88 eeto...........................8 and credit, State, county and town, resolution of Mr. Henry in refer ence to............................ 180 APPLICATION of seven per cent. tax of Illinois Central E. R., resolution of Mr. Washburn in reference to.......... 104 APPROPRIATIONS by general assembly, communication from Auditor of State in reference to................................... 365 by gen eral assembly, resolution of in quiry of Mr. T,uesdale, to Auditor ot State, in reference t o............ 323 and donations, educational, resolution of Mr. Underwood, in reference to. 139 future, for State house, article in ref erence to.......................... 1320 future, for State house, remarks on re port from committee on public ace counts and expenditures, in refer ence to..........1621,1622,1772, 1773 future, for State house, report from committee on public accounts and expenditures, in reference to....... 1621 future. to State house, report from committee on public accounts and expenditures, in reference to article on, referred to committee on revis ion and adjustment................ 1774 of money, by general assembly, since 1862, resolution of Mr. Haines, of Lake, to appoint committee to as certain............................ 80 town and county, resolution of Mr. Wagner in referen ce to.............. 179 ARCHER, WM. R.-(a Delegate from the Twenty-fourth Representative District.) amendment of, to amendment of Mr. Parks to section 13 of report from committee on judiciary............ 1047 amendment of, to amendment of Mr. Springer to section 1 of report from committee on future amendments..1311 amendment of, to amendmen t of Mr. Springer to section 16 of report from committee on judiciary, as amended in committee of the whole.1461 amendment of, to lines 7, 23 and 24 of section 33 of report from committee on legislative department...... 587, 609 amendment of, to report from com mittee on casual and canal lands, and on internal improvements..... 43$ amendment of, to resolution of Mr. Sedgwick in reference to Jurnishing newspapers to members of conven tion............................... 126 amendment of, to section 8 of report from committee on counties, as amended in committee of the whole.1519 amendment of, to sections 1, 7, 15 and 18 of report from committee on ju diciary............. 976, 1013, 1142,:1063 ame(ndmenlt of, to sections 13, 28 and 46 of report from committee on ju diciary, as amended in committee of the whole............... 141.', 1470, 1495 amendment of, to sections 37 and 40 of repor t from committee on legls lative department............. 637 17 amendment of, to section 2 of report from committee o'n state, county and municipal indebtedness....... 284 amendment ot, to section 1 of report from committee on township organ ization..................................... 874 amenldmegt of, to substitute of Mr. Medill io section 1 of report fr'om committee on future amendments, as amended in committee of the wh~ole......,,.,..e............159 appointed member of committee on education......................... ~$ appointed member of committee on future amendments...............,?$ ** of additional members of committee on revision and adjustment, resolu tion of Mr. Cody requesting.......132eL of Board of PuLblic Chlarities, resolu tion of instruction of Mr. Peirce to comumittee on state institutions and public buildings, in reference to................................ 84 of janitor to senate chamber, resolu tion of Mr. King in reterence to....1234 of pages of convention, remarks in reference to...................... 54 of pages of convention, resolution of Mr. Vandeventer in reference to................ o f c a. r r w h54 of standing committees............. 75 APPOINTMENT OF COMIMITTEE on investigation, in reference to communication from Secretary of State, in regard to stationery fur niohed to convention..............1828 on accounts and expenditures of con rvention.93 vnin...........................9 on banks and currency.............. 75 on bill of rights..................... 75 on canal and canal lands............ 75 on congressional apportionment.... 75 on counties......................... 75 - on education......................... 75 on electoral and representative re form........................... 75 -on executive....................... 75 on federal relations.................. 75 on finance........................... 75 on future amend nents.............. 75 on internal irlmprovemilen ts.......... 75 on judiciary 5 mne............... 75 on judicial circuits..................o 75 on judicial divisions of the istate....1103 on legislative apportionment........75 on legislative department........... 75 on manufactures and agriculture... 75 on military affaits................. 75 on mines and mineral interests..... aede 93 on mines anid mineral interests, reso lution of Mr. Camer-on in rei ren ce to............................ 81, 84 on miscellaneous corporations...... 75 on miscellaneous subjects7............ 75 on municipal corporatiotns..........1 75 on penitentiary and reformatory in stitutions........................ 75 on printing and bintiding.......te...... 75 on public accounts and expenditures. 75 on railroad corporations............ o75 on retrenchment and reolbrm........ 75 on revenue...................... 75 on revision and adjustment......... 75 on right of suffrage................. 75 on roads and internal navigation.... 75 a on rules............................ 56 o on schedule......................... 75 on State, county and municipal in debtedness..................... 75t on State institutions and public build iDgs............................. 75 on township organization.......... 75 to measure printed matter, &c., of mconveiition..................1860, 1865 to prepare address to people ot the State.............................1783 INDEX. 15 1 ANTHONY, ELLIOTT.-Continued. APPOINTMENT OF COMMITTEE.- Con. tinued. to receive Geiieral Sheridqn......... 1416 to,select committee to'prepire ad dress to people of the State....... 1732 APPOINTMENT-, INDEX. ARCHER, WM. R.-Continved. appointed member of committee on legisl ativ e ap portionment......... 75 appointed member of committee on miscellaneous corporations........ 75 leave of absence granted to.453, 1156, 1634 majority report trom committee on future amendments, submitted by.. 391! remarks of, in debate in convention i ~ on report from committee on coun- i ties, as amended in committee of the whole...;................ 1532, 1555 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on execu tive, as amended in committee of the whole.........................1377 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on future 1 amendments, as amended in com mittee of the whole............... 1592 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on judi ciary, as amended in committee of the whole........... 1405,1408,1413,1471 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on right of suffrage, as amended in commit tee of the whole................... 1292 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on canal and canal lands, and on internal improve ments............................. 373 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on counties............1346 remarks of, in debate on report from 'committee on executive depart ment............................. 804 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on future amendments.1310, 1311, 1315 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on judiciary..978, 986, 1013, 1014,1020,1038,1047,1055,1063,1141 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on legislative depart ment.... 585,600,609,616,630,637,074,692, 697,733 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on miscellaneous sub jects, in reference to homestead ex emptions......................... 897 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on printing and bind ing......................... 112,130,131 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on roads and internal navigation........................ 893 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on state, county and municipal indebtedness..... 217,284,847 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on township organiza tion........................ 874,876,880 remarks of, in debate on resolution of Mr. Allen, of Crawford, in reference to printing veto messages......... 152 remarks of, in debate on resolution of Mr. Church, in reference to oath of office............................. 8 remarks of, in debate on resolution of Mr. Haines, of Lake, in reference to oath of office........................... 44 remarks of, in debate on resolution of Mr. Peirce, in relerence to reports of standing committees..................... 258 remarks of, in debate on resolution of -Mr. Snyder, in reference to furnish inlg newspapers to members of convention.................... 61 remarks of, in reference to order of business....................263, 10)61 remarks of, in reference;'to printing of debates.....................1031 remarks of, on question of privilege. 1882 remarks of, on question of privilege, raised by Mr. Turner............... 1129 remarks of, on resolution in reference to printing certain articles of the constitution....................1130 remarks of, on resolution of Mr. Haines, of Lake, in reference to furnishing postage stamps to mem bers of convention......:.........- 345 remarks of, on res,lution of Mr. S3edgwick, in reference to furnish ing newspapers to members of con vention.................,... 126 remarks of, on resolution of inquiry -to warden of penitentiary, in refer ence to convicts pardoned during: the past ten years.............,A...... 154 ARCHER, WM. R.-Continued. remarks of, on the subject of furnish- ing newspapers to members of con vention........................... ncplcprtos.....127 remarks of, on submission of report from committee on future amend- m nents......................... 391, 392 resolution in reference to afternoon sessions of convention............ 258 resolution in reference to county courts and their jurisdiction....... 67 resolution in reference to county courts and their jurisdiction, called up and referred to judiciarv com mittee........................88 resolution in reference to passage of bills over veto..................... 67 resolution in reference to passage of bills over veto,called up and referred to committee on executive depart rment.............................. 88 resolution in reference to printing certain articles of the constitu tion...............................1129 resolution in reference to the sover eignty of the people.............. 113 resolution of inquiry to Secretary of State, in reference to convicts par doned during the past ten years... 157 resolution of inquiry to warden of penitentiary, in reference to con>. victs pardoned during the past ten years.......................... 154 o resolution of instruction to commit tee on executive, in reference to pardoning power of Governor..... 98 resolution ot instruction to commit tee on judiciary, in reference to rmr orules of evidence.................. 78 resolution of instruction to commit tee on legislative department, in reference to publication of laws.... 88 resolution of instruction to commit tee on legislative department, to amend constitution in reference to property of married women....... 177 ARTICLES REFERRED.-Contirued. in reference to municipal corpora tions, referred to commit te e on mu nicipal corporation s............... 212 in reference to municipal subscrip tion to capital stock of private corporations, referred to committee on schedule....................... 1730 in reference to personal liberty, re ferred to c ommittee on bill of rights............................. 177 ARTICLE; 2d-resolution of Mr. Benjamin to amend, in reference to powers of State government................. 192 14th-concerning emigration of peo ple of color, remarks on the subject of the reference of to a select com mittee............................ 82 - in reference to county officers, sub mitted by Mr. Medill.............. 174 in reference to eminent domain in re gard to railroads, submitted by Mr. Church........................... 26S in reference to establishment of state university, submitted by Mr. Wall. 194 in reference to future appropriations for state house, submitted by Mr. Sedgwick.......................... 1 3 in reference to future appropriations for state house, report from com mittee on public accounts and ex penditures in reference to......... 16! in reference to future appropriations for state house, remarks on report from committee on public accounts and expenditures in reference to...162l 1622, 1772, 1775 in reference to future appropriations for state house, report from com mittee on public accounts and ex penditures, referred to the commit tee on revision and adjustment....1774 in reference to management of prisons, . submitted by Mr. Anthony........ 158 in reference to municipal corpora tions, submitted by Mlr. Haines of Cook.............................. 212 in reference to municipal subscrip tions to capital stock of private corporations, submitted by Mr. Peirce.................... 1104, 1234 in reference to municipal subscrip tions to capital stock of private ~ corporations, debate on.... 1234 to 1242 in reference to municipal subscrip tion to capital stock of private cor porations,as amended in committee of the whole, debate on in conven _' tion............................... 1730 In reference to municipal subscrip tion to capital stock of private cor porations, referred to committee on schedule........................... 1730 in reference to personal liberty, sub'; reitted by Mr. Snyder............. 177 in reference to railroad passes of state officers, submitted by Mr. Hayes... 96 on bill of rights, report from commit* tee on revision and adjustment on.1776 on boundaries, referred to committee on revision and adjustment..... 79 roIn boundaries, report from commit- tee on revision and adjustment on.1776 on boundaries,submitted by Mr. Tur n e r................278 on canal, report from committee on canal and canal lands in reference to certain modifications of...................1649 on1 canal, remarks on consideration of ;~ report Irom committee on canal and canal lands in reference to certain modifications of......................... 1745 on canal, report from committee on revision and adjustment on, sub mitted by Mr. Cody................s 1834 on canal and canal lands, and on in ternal improvements, referred to -committee on revision and adjust -ment................... 487 on canal and canal lands, remarks in reference to.............1832 to 1834 on canal and canal lands, resolution -of instruction of Mr. Hay to com mittee on revision and adjustment in reference to.........................1833 on corporations, report from commit tee on revision and adjustment on, submitted by Mr. Cody.....................1834 on counties, report from committee on revision and adjustment on, sub mitted by Mr. Cody.e.......f.....1834 ARSENAL State,resolution of Mr. Fuller in refer ence to carpet for................. 988 ARTICLES- certain, of the constitution, resolu- tion in reference to printing.......1129 of constitution, resolution of instruc- tion of Mr. Washburn to committee on schedule, in reference to sepa- rate submission of.................1796 furnished to members of convention, m c nresolution of instruction of Mr. r r- oEllis to Secretary of State, in refer ence to............................ 260' , on canals, corporations, counties, ed ucation, militia, revenue, suffrage and warehouses, debate on report from committee on revision and ad justment, on.............. 1834 to 1840 i on bill of rights, boundaries, distribu- tion of powers, executive, legisla- ture and pt)reamble, debate on report from committee on revision and ad justment, on.............. 1776 to 1783 on canals, corporations, counties, ed- ucation, militia, revenue, suffrage, and warehouses, remarks of Mr. Cody on report from committee on revision and adjustment, on.......1834 ARTICLES REFERRED-c article on boundaries, referred to committee on revision and adjustr ment.............................. 279 article on counties, referred to com mittee on counties................ 151 article on future appropriations for Statehouse, referred to committee on public accounts and expendi- ltures............................ 1320, article on judiciary department, refer- red to committee on judiciary...... 179 article in reference to county officers, referred to committee on counties.. 174 in reference to eminent domain in re gard to-railroads, referred to com mittee on judiciary............... 262 in reference to establishment of a State university, submitted by Mr. Wall, referred to committee on ed ucation........................... 194 in reference to management of prisons, referred to committee on peniten tiary and reformatory institutions. 153 I II i, It iI i r I I I I i i i 16 f -- -. 7- I - A!LTICLE. —nt'mt~ea _ ASSESSMENT.-Comtinu. ATKINS, HENRY; -1.o - II - - ASSESSMENT.-Cordinued. of taxes, resolution of Mr. Buxton in reference to uniformity of.......... 127 of taxes for sidewalk purposes, &c., resolution of Mr. Sedgwick to amend constitution in reference to 212 ARTICLE.-Continued. on counti es, submitted by Mr. El dredge............................ 15 onil county and city indebtedness, res olution of Mr. Hayes, in reference .................,............. 1190 on distribution of powers, report from committee on revision and ad justment, on......................1776 on distribution of the powers of the State government, remarks on.... 279 on education, report from committee on revision and adjustment, on, submitted by Mr. Cody...........1834 on executive, report from committee on revision and adjustment, on....1776 on judiciary department, submitted by Mr. Anthony.................. 178 on judiciary, communication in refer ence to separate submission of.....1129 on judiciary, debate on report from committee on revision and adjust ment, on.1 810 to 1813 on judiciary, petition in reference to................................. 1361 on judiciary, proposed amendments to, submitted by Mr. Wells........ 1130 on judiciary, report from committee on revision and adjustment, on....1810 on judiciary, resolution of instruc tion of Mr. Neece to committee on revision and adjustment, in refer ence to section 11 of............... 1763 on legislature, remarks on report from committee on revision and ad justment, on...................... 1789 on legislature, report from committee on revision and adjustment, on....1776 on militia, report from committee on revision and adjustment, on, sub mitted by Mr. Cody................ 1834 on preamble, report from committee on revision and adjustment, on....1776 on railroad corporations,resolution of instruction of Mr. Church to-com mittee on revision and adjustment in reference to.................... 172 3 on railroad corporations, resolution of instruction of Mr. Church, to committee on revision and adjust ment, in reference to, called up and amended.......................... 1731 on revenue, remarks in reference to reconsideration of section 6 of.....1677 on revenue, report from committee on revision and adjustment on, sub mitted by Mr. Cody................ 1834 on right of suffrage, resolution of in struction of Mr. Goodhue to com mittee on revision and adjustment, in reference to section 6 of......... 1662 on right of suffrage, resolution of in struction of Mr. Goodhue to com mittee on revision and adjustment, in reference to r-ection 6 of, called up and debated on............ 1725, 1726 on suffrage, report from committee on revision and adjustment, on, submitted by Mr. Cody............1834 on warehouses, report from commit tee on revision and adjustment on, submitted by Mr. Cody................1834 on wrareh ouses, resoluti on o f instlruc tion of Mr. Whiting to committee on revision and adjustment, in ref erence to.......................1707 ASSESSMENTS and appropriations, additional sec tions to constitution in reference to, offered by Mr. Anderson........... 1234 ATKINS, HENRY J.-Continued. remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on judi ciary, as amended in commit te e of the whole........................ 1399 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on sched ule, as amended in committee of the who le......................... 8e remarks of, in debate on report from committee on bill of rights...1567,1588 remarks of, in debate on report from committees on canal and canal lands, and on internal imdrove ments..................... 3f8,469, 471 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on counties............ 133 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on executive depart. ment........................789, 790 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on judiciary............ 981 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on legislative depart ment..................... 674, 675, 693 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on military affairs...... 8W remarks of, in debate on report from committee on mines and mineral in terests, in reference to the protec tion of the lives of miners..... 269, 270 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on miscellaneous corpo rations............................ 1665 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on miscellaneous cor porations, in reference to ware houses....................... 1633,1636 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on printing and binding, in reference to printing and binding convention debates............... 106 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on railroad corpora tions.............................. 1639 remarkv of, in debate on report from committee on schedule............. 180I remarks of, in debate on resolution of Mr. English in reference to recess of convention........................ 828 remarks of, in reference to ordinance relating to privileges of members of convention........................ 56 remarks of, on announcement of the death of Hon. Chas. Emmerson....1338 remarks of, on resolution in reference to granting leave of absence....... 859 remarks of, on resolution of instruc tion to committee on roads and in ternal navigation in reference to private roads....................... 135 remarks of, on submission of report from committee on municipal cor porations.......................... 591 remonstrance against female suffrage, submitted by......................1840 resolution in reference to eminent do main...........................8 resolution in reference to granting leave of absence............. 859 resolution in reference to "two-mills' tax................................... 175 resolution of inquiry to clerk of su preme court for third grand division of state of Illinois, in reference to reports of circuit court judges in relation to amendments to the laws................................... (J resolution of inquiry to judges of su, preme court in reference to certain reports of circuit judges............... 323 resolution of inquiryr to State Treas urer in reference to salaries of cir cuit judges for certain services ren dered.......................... 98 resolution of instruction to commit tce on bill of rights in reference to drainage...................... 481 resolution of instruction to commit tee on bill of rights in reference to drainage laws and private roads.... X4 resolution of instruction to commit tee on bill of rights in reference to the privileges of citizens in regard to food and drink................... 280 resolution of instruction to commit. tee on legislative department in re ference to amalgamation............... 211 rasolution of instruction to comnmit tee on legislature in reference to salaries of state officialss..,..,....2A) ASSISTANT doorkeeper, pro tern., election of.........I8, doorkeepers of convention, election of................................. 52 doorkeepers and doorkeeper of con vention, debate in reference to elec tion of...........................52, 53 postmaster of convention, election of................................. 54 postmaster and postmasters of con vention, debate in reference to elec tion of...........................5,5 to.1361 tion of.53, 54 Secretary pro tern., election of...... 6 Secretaries of convention, election of....cmit.... 51. 52 Secretary of Scta te, delivery by the President, of constitution to...... 1 S f O ATKINS, HENRY J-(a delegate from the 27th Representative District.) additional section to report from com mittee on bill of rights, offered by.1588 amendment of, to additional section offered by Mr. Washburn to report from committee on miscellaneous corporations...................... 1i}68 amendment of, to amendment of Mr. Allen, of Crawford, to section 4 of report from committee on counties, as amended in committee of the whole............................. 1534 amendment of, to amendment of Mr. Anthony to section 1 of report from committee on railroad corpo rations............................1641 amendment of, to amendment of Mr. Gamble to section 4 of report from committee on counties, as amended in committee of the whole........1533 amendment of, to amendment of Mr. Wagner to section 4 of report from committee on miscellaneous corpo rations, in reference to warehouses,1633 amendment of, to amendment of Mr. Whiting, to section 7 of report from committee on miscellaneous corporations, in reference to ware houses............................ 1636 amendment of, to section 15 of report from committee on bill of rights..1584 amendment of, to section 6 of report from committee on counties....... 1333 amendment of, to sections 5 and 8 of report from committee on counties, as amended in committee of the whole0, 1537.................. 1508, 1520, 1537 amendment of, to section 1 of report from committee on judiciary...... 982 amendment of, to section 18 ofreport from committee on legislative de- partment, as amended in commit tee of the whole................... 952 amendment of, to substitute of Mr. Allen, of Crawford, to section 8 of report from committee on counties, as amended in committee of the whole.............................1520 appointed member of committee on municipal corporations............ 75 appointed member of committee on railroad corporations..............5 r 75 appointed member of committee on revision and adjustment........... 75 appointed member of committee on state institutions and public build n.4 ingsg..........................75 leave of absence granted to......155,194, 1077,16X ordinance relating to privileges of members of convention submitted by............................... 56 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on coun ties, as amended in committee of the whole...........1520,15;4,1534,1537 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on execu tive department,as amended in com mittee n the wfolern...............1380 f I I a I II I I i I i INDEX. 17 A.SSHMBLY and convention expenses, since 1862, debate on report from committee on retrenchment aud refor m, in ref erence to.......... 226 to 230, 237 to 245 and convention expenses since 1862, report from committee on retrench ment and reform, in reference to... 226 legislative, resolution of Mr. Snyder in reference to, reported back from committee on legislative depart ment.............................. 141 ASSESSED value of property in the State for the past 4 years, communication from - Auditor of State in reference to.... 137 1 value of property'lu the State for the past four years, resolution of inqui ry of Mr. McCoy to Auditor of State in reference to...................... 127 A-SSESSMENT and collection of city taxes, commu nication in reference to.......... *. 306 18 Ias~ AUDITOR OF PUBLIC ACCOUNTS.-Con tinued. resolution of inquiry to, of Mr. McCoy, in reference to state in debtedness........................ 127tt resolution of inquiry to, of Mr. Mer. riam, in reference to expenses of constitutional convention of 1862.. 68 resolution of inquiry to,of Mr. Peirce, in reference to township organiza tion............................... 758 resolution of inquiry to, of Mr. Rice, in reference to cost of registration for the years 1868 and 1869........ 261 resolution of inquiry to, of Mr. Truesdale, in reference to appropri ations by General Assembly...... 323 resolution of inquiry to, of Mr. Whi ting, in reference to State canal... 236 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Moore, in reference to Superinten dent of public instruction....... 1389 BALLOTS resolution of Mr. Cameron in refer ence to present system of number ing................................ 98 BANK LEGISLATION resolution of instruction of Mr. Cary, to committee on banks and curren cy, in reference to................. 211 BAYNE, JAMES G.-Continued. petition in reference to warehouse and railroad frauds, submitted by;w.....1. 627 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on coun ties, as amended in committee of the whole.............1524, 1546, 1547 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from co mmi tte e on judi ciary, as amended in committee of the whole..........,1396,'1458 remarks of, in debate iin convention On report from committee on revenue, as amended in committee of the whole.............................161~ remarks of, in debate on article in re ference to subscriptions'tO capital stock of'pr'ivate corporations......1 239 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on bill of rights. 1559 remarks of, in debate on reports of committees on bill- of rights, and miscellaneous subjects, in refbrence to preamble...................... 233 remarks of, in debate on report firom committee on education.1737, 1739,1740 remarks of, in debate on report fronm committee on executive depart ment'.........................791, 818 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on judiciary............ 1092 1117, 1163, 1217 remarks of, in debate on report from commiittee on legislative depart ment.501, 518, 519, 550, 566,.644, 711, 719 remarks of; in debate on report from committee on miscellaneous sub jects, in reference to homestead ex emptions........................... 900 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on printing and binding 113 133 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on revenue........ 1263, 1268 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on roads and internal navigation...... I... 890 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on State, county and municipal indebtedness....295, 296, 297 remarks of, in debate on resolutions of Mr. Church in reference to oath of office........................... 27 remarks of, in debate on resolution of Mr. Washburn in reference to print ing resolutions..... 89 remarks of, in debate on the subject of printing prayers offered in con vention........................... 170 remarks of, in debate on the subject of recess of convention............ 871 remarks of, on question of priy i: leg................ j.................8.........., 73 resolution in reference to divorces.... 91 resolution in reference to the grant ing of franchise in certain cases.... 654 resolution in reference to pay of po licemen of convention............. 1209 resolution in reference to preamble to constitution.................... 154 resolution ini reference to rig~ht of suf frage.................. 1(0 resolution of instruction to commuit tee on Counties in relerence to elec tion of cobalty officers.................. 15~ resolutionof instruction to commit-: tee on counties, in refercne3 to re morsal of county seats.....ex...... 15 resolution of instructionl to commit. tee on judicialry, in reference to abolishment of grand jury.............. 176 resolution of instr uctionl to commits tee on miscellaneous subjects, in reference to widows and orphans.. 510 substitute of, to article of Mr. Peirce, in reflm ence to subscriptions to cap ital stock of private corporations..1239 BANKS AND CURRENCY, COMMITTEE ON-X appointment of....................... 75 debate on report from........1678 to 1685 debate in convention, on report from, as amended in committee of the whole.......m.......... l. 1685 to 1688 report from, submitted by Mr. Tin cher..............................:1553 report from, referredPto comiaittee on revision and adjustment...........1688 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Craig, to amend constitution in ref erence to bank legislation.......... 211 BATTLE — of New Orleans, resolution of Mr. Haines, of Lake, in commemora tion of............................ 128 BAYNE, JAMES G.-(a delegate from the Forty-fifth Representative District.) additional section to article on bill of rights, as reported by committee on revision and adjustment, offered by................................ 1778 addititional section to report from committee on education, offered by...............................1739 amendment of, to reports from com mittee on bill of rights and miscel laneous subjects, in reference to preamble......................... 233 amendment of, to section 1 of report from committee on bill of rights..1559 amendment of, to section 20 of report from committee on executive de partment......................... 791 amendment of. to section I8 of report from committee on judiciary...... 1092 amendment of; to section 31 of re port from committee on legislative department....................... 566 amendment of, to section 5 of report from committee on miscellaneous corporations, in reference to ware houses Jn....................... 1635 amendment of, to section 5 of re port from committee on miseellane ous corporations, in reference to warehouses, as amended in commit tee of the whole..............5.... 1701 appointed member of committee on internal improve ment s............ 75 appointed member of committee on manufactures and agricultlure..... 75 appointed member of committee on roads and internal navigation......75 teThryeht s leave of absence granted to.......... 965 petition in reference to observance of the Sabbath, submitted by........ 451 479, 560, 613, 702, 1129 petition in reference to preamble, sub mitted by....................... 479 petition in reference to the rights of women, submitted by............. 826 petition in reference to use of bible in common schools submitted by.... 251 344,,389, 479, 560, 613, 702, 1129 ATTORNEYS- prosecuting, resolution of instruction of Mr. Cross to committee on judi ciary, in reference to.............. 211 AUDITOR OF PUBLIC ACCOUNTS communication from, in reference to expenses of State penitentiary since 1857............................... 261 communication from, in reference to railroads, &c.................. 1526 remarks own comm-unicatio'n from, ia reference to railroads, &c..... 1526, 15~07 resolution of inquiry to, of Mr. De ment, in reference to expenses of 25th and 26th general assemblies... 263 resolution of inquiry to, of Mr. Wall, in reference to expenses of State penitentiary since 1867............. 178 and Secretary of State, resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Moore, in ref erence to convention accounts..... 1230 communication from, in refe,ence to appropriation by general assembly 365 communication from, in reference to assessed val,,.e of property in the State for the past 4 years.......... 137 communication from, in reference to Auditor's warrants issued in favor of Superintendent of Public Instruc tion...............................1759 communication from, in reference to cost of printing and binding....... 128 communication from,-in reference to the cost of registration for the years 1868-9....;.:...................... 280 communication from, in reference to earnings of Illinois Central Rail road............................... 101 communication from, in reference to expenses of 25th and 26th general assem blies........................ 305 communication from, in reference to Illinois and Michigan canal........ 487 communication from, in reference to salaries of circuit judges for cercain services rendered.................. 280 communication from, in reference to the sale of lands belonging to Joel A. Matteson....................., 510 communication from, in reference to his services and fees, submitted by the president.................... 196 communication trom, in reference to state and other indebtedness to public schools..................... 155 communication from, in reference to township organization.^ 1075 communication from State Treasurer, asking that resolution of inquiry in reference to additional salaries of circuit judges be referred t o....... 222 resolution of Mr. Peirce to print re por t from, in reference to township organization....................... 1104 resolution of Mr. Pillsbury request ing infbrmation from, in reference to gross earning,s of Illinois Central railroad since June 11, 1862........ 80 resolution of Mr. Wells to rescind resolutmon of inquiry to, in refer ence to expt nses o,f general assem bly since 1862h, and of constit,ubional co~nveintion of 1862........................ 80 and Alexander Stark e, trustee, etc., resolutio~n of inquiry to, of -a. Anthony, ill refer ence to lands be longing tea Joel A. Matteson................... 33S reso~lution of inquiry tot of Mr. An thony, in reference to railro~ads.................. 912 resolution of inquiry to} of Mr. Fox, in reference to expenses of' general assembly since 1862................e 68 State~ Tlreasure~r and Secretary, resolu tion of inquiry to, of Mr. Gioodhue, in reference to their services and ~ees.............................. 146 resolution of inquiry to, of Ml. MceCoy, in reference to the assessed value of property in the state for the past four years............... 127 1,8 INDEX. ATKINS, HENRY J.-Contl,-zued.. resolution of instruction to commit tee - on railroad corporations to a end constitution in re,,rence to obligations of Illinois Central Rail road..... 176 0 u b s t i t u t c oo' r,e,p, o' r' t''f'r'o'm'' C'O''M''M'f mittee on mines and mineral inte rests in re,"crence to the protection of the lives of miners............... 270 BENIAMIN, REUBEN M-('a delegate from the Tfiirty-eighth Rej)resentative District.) amendment of, to amendment of Mr. Anthony, to section 6 of report from committee on counties, as amended' in comnaittee of the whole........ amendment of, to mend'ment of Mr. Church to resolution of instruction of Mr. Church to, committee on revision and adjustment, in refer ence to article on railroad corpora tpons.............................. 1731 0 l........................................... - 1 BEJMN REBNM-o.~te. BNAI,RUE.-otiud ILO IIT,CMITEO BENJAMIN, REUBEN M.-Continued. remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on rev enue, as amended in committee of the whole.....................1620 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on revis ion and adjustment, on schedule...1857 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on right of suffrage, as amended in commit tee of the whole.................. 1295 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on bill of rights...1563,1568 1578,1580 remarks of,.in debate on report from committee on counties............1366 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on executive depart ment.............................. 766 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on future amendments..1311 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on judiciary............ 993 1003, 1108, 1149, 1193, 1219 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on legislative depart ment......... 494, 497, 601, 674, 722, 741 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on miscellaneous corpor ations, in reference to warehouses..1633 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on railroad corpora tions.............................. 1641 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on revenue.............a 1202 - 1251, 1252, 1272 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on schedule............1793 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on state, county and municipal indebtedness......... 219, 849 remarks of, in debate on resolutions in reference to oath of office -.....mn,rf. 37 remarks of, in debate on resolution of Mr. Wells in reference to election of delegate to convention in place of Hon. W. H. Patterson, deceased. 203 remarks of, in reference to election of supreme court judges.........fr t......1800 remarks of, on resolution of instruc tion to committee on electoral and representative reform, in reference to majority and minority represen tation............................. 175 report from committee on bill of rights in reference to preamble, sub mitted by......................... 209 resolution in reference to contracts, etc................................ 965 resolution to amend article second of the constitution in reference to the powers of state government....... 192 resolution of instruction to commit tee on electoral and representative reform, in reference to majority and minority representation...........rslto 175 substitute of, to section 36 of report from committee on legislative de partment......................... 613 BERGEN, REV. DR. — prayer ofiered by.,............. 249 30a, t2, f1178, 1233, 1648 BENJAMIN, REUBEN M.-Continued. amendment of to ame ndment of M r. Tubbs to section 2 of report from committee on miscellaneous corpo. rations, in reference to warehouses, as amended in committee of the whole............................. 1699 amendment of, to amendment of Mr. Wagner to section 4 of report from committee on miscellaneous corpo rations, in reference to warehouses. 1633 amendment of, to article in reference to municipal subscriptions to capi tal stock of private corporations..1242 amendment of, to lines 13 and 14 of section 33 of report from commit tee on legislative department...... 608 amendment of, to report from com mittee on mines and mineral inter ests, in reference to the protection of the lives of miners............. 268 amendment of, to section 5 of article on counties, as reported by com mittee on revision and adjustment.1836 amendment of, to section 20 of article on judiciary, as reported by com mittee on revision and adjustment.1812 amendment of, to section 4 of report from committee on counties, as amended in committee of the whole (2)..................... 1506,1522 amendment of. to section 3 of report from committee on executive de partment......................... 766 amendment of, to sections 1, 4 and 13 of report from committee on judiciary, as amended in committee of the whole........1397,1409,1426,1445 amendment of, to sections 1, 12 and 37 of report from committee on legislative department.....497,530, 638 amendment of, to section 44 of report from committee on legislative de partment, as amended in committee of the whole...................... 963 amendment of, to section 5 of report from committee on miscellaneous corporations, in reference to ware houses............................ 1634 amendment of, to section 4 of report from committee on railroad corpo rations, as amended in committee of the whole...................1712 amendment of, t o sections 22 and 23 of report from committee on sched ule............................... 1805 amendment of, to substitute of Mr. Allen, of Crawford, to section 8 of' report from committee on counties, as amended in committee of the whole............................. 1520 appointed member of committee on accounts and expenditures of con vention........................... 93 appointed member of committee on bill of rights...................... 75 appointed member of committee on municipal corporati ons............ 75 appointed member of committee ou schedule, in place of Hon. Wm. H. Patterson, deceased.........91 appointed member of committee on state institutions and public build ings................75 communication from Illinois Confer ence of the Methodist Episcopal Chulrch. on the subject of sectarian appropriations, submitted by. 118 communication in reference to'roadl tax submitted b y.......... 89 communication in reference to sepa rate submission of judiciary article, submitted by...........1t29 leave of absence granted to).......... 859 protest in: relation to female suffrage submitted by............,..... 1528 remarks of, in debate in convention on report lrom committee on couln ties, *as amended in committee of the whole.............,...,..1522 remarks of, in debate in convention, on report from committee on judi ciary, as amended in committee of the whole....1409,1415, 1428, 1427, 1430 1467, 1486 remarks of, in debate in convention, on report from committee on legis lative department, as amended in committee of the whole 918, 945, 967, 971 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on rail road corporations. as amended in committee of the whole.............171971722 BILL OF RIGHTS, COMMITTEE ON appointment of..................... 75 articl e in reference to personalliberty referred to........................ 177 communication in reference to bill of rights, r eferred to................. 249 communication on the subject of drain s, referred to.................. 365 debate on report from........ 1558 to 1590 debate on report from, in reference to preamble.......... 231 to 235, 264 to 276 memorial in reference to law of li bel, etc., referred to............... 281 petition in reference to the acknowl edgement of the power of the Al mighty, referred to............... 1319 petition in reference to observance of the Sabbath, referred to........ 745 petitions in reference to the observ ance of the seventh day, referred to........................... 1103,1477 petition on the subject of liberty, re fcrred to.......................... 250 report from, submitted by Mr. Allen, of Alexander..................... 1440 report from, in reference to the distri bution of the powers of the State government, submitted by Mr. Al len, of Crawford................... 281 report from, in reference to preamble, submitted by Mr. Benjamin........ 209 report from, referred to committee on revision and adjustment........... 159!D report from, in reference to preamble, referred to committee on revision and adjustment................... 278 resolution of Mr. Bayne in reference to preamble, referred to........... 154 resolution of Mr. Benjamin in refer ence to contracts, &c., referred to.. 965 resolution of Mr. Benjamin to amend article 2 of constitution, in refer ence to powers of State govern ment, referred to.................. 199 resolution of Mr. Buxton, in refer ence to rights and duties of individ uals and associations, referred to...1277 resolution of Mr. Cummings in refer. ence to imprisonment for debt, re ferred t o.......................... 334 resolution of Mr. Cummings in refer ence to monopolies, referred to.... 321 resolution of Mr. Cummings in refer ence to the rights of the people in regard to the internal government of the State, referred to............ 281 resolution of Mr. Eldredge in refer ence to the appropriation of pri vate property for public use, re ferred to.......................... 9, resolution of Mr. Fox in reference to bill of rights, referred to.......... 192 resolution of Mr. Haines, of Lake, in reference to the appropriation of private property for public use, re ferred to........................... 155 resolution of Mr. Haines, of Lake, in reference to eminent domain, refer red to.............................31 resolution of Mr. Perley in reference to religious liberty, referred to.................. 179 resolution of Mr. Sedgwick in refer eneB to the appropriation of private property, referred to...................... 429 resolution of Ml'. Snyder in reference to right of suffrage, referred to.................. 193 resolution of Mir. Underwood in refer ence to rights and privileges of the people, &ec., referred to..................... 100 resolution of Mr. Wait, in reference to powders of State departments, re lbrred to............................ 98 resolution of Mr. Wall in reference to granld ury and indictments by, re ferred to...........,..... 174 resolution of Mr. Wall in reference to sale sof property for debt, referred to,................ 615 resolution of Mr. Wall to amend con stitution, in reference to the non. disqualification of witnesses on ac count of religious belief, referred ato,...............: 176 resolution of Mr. Wheaton, in refer ence to appropriation of private property for public use, referred to......................................... 85 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Arkins. in reference to drainage... 481 resolution of instruction t~o, of Mr. Atkins, in reference to drainage laws and private roads...................". /41 BIBLE — in common schools, communication in reference to use of..............e toihadr g 7 45 in common schools, petition in refer en ce to use of..................... 251 344, 389, 479, 510, 560, 613 629, 679, 702,1030,1103,1129 BILL-r of rights, communication in reference to................................. 249 of rights, report from committee on revision and adjustment on article on, submitted by Mr. Cody........Waltamn 1776 of rights, resolution of Mr. Fox in reference to....................... 192 from postmaster of Springfield.......cu 15'h9 BILLS — passage of, over veto, resolution of Mr. Archer in reference to......... 67 passage of, over veto, resolution of Mr. Archer in reference to, taken up and referred to committee on executive department............ 88 passage of, over veto, resolution of - Mr. Wagner in reference to........lw, 213 INDEX. 19 INDEX. BRIBERY.-Continued. in connection with public affairs,reso lution of Mr. Whiting, of instruc tion to judiciary committee in reference to prevention of.......11... 93 in general assembly, resolution of Mr. Wells in reference to..........1477 on the part of public officers, rcsolu tion of instruction of Mr. Hay to committee on miscellaneous sub jects in reference to................ 182 on the part of pubtlic officers, resolu tion of instruction of Mr. Hay in reference to, reported back from committee on miscellaneous sub jects..................;.......... 857 BROMWELL, H. P. H.-Continued. remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on judi ciary, as amended in committee of the whole....1410, 1422, 1432, 1433, 1437 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee o n legis lative department, as amended in committee of the whole c...........d n r 5 l n1 1 1 9, 29 927, 935, 954, 9M remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on reve- nue, ai amended in committee of the whole.............1599, 1615, 1610 remarks of in debat e in convention on report from committee on sched ule, as amended in committee of the whole........................ 1839 remarks of, in debate on reports from committeci on canal and ca nal lands and on internal improve ments............................. 330 331, 332, 337, 339, 463 467, 468, 476, 477, 478 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on counties............1327 1342, 1358, 1350 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on executive depart ment....... 751, 757, 761, 776, 777, 778 779, 780, 784, 810, 813, 814 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on judiciary..978, 993, 1005 1013, 1020, 1035, 1042, 1059, 1079, 1090 1103, 1105, 1118, 1124, 1132, 1135, 1160 1166, 1175, 1187, 1195, 1215, 1216, 1124 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on legislative depart ment.............. 681, 698, 710, 720, 725 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on printing and binding, 120 131 remarks of, In debate on report from committee on railroad corporations 1643 - ]-~~~~~66 BROMWELL, H. P. H.-(a Delegate from the Thirty-ninth Representative District.) additional section to report from committee on legislative depart meut, as amended in committee of the whole, offered by.......4....., 46.. 960 amendment of, to additional section offered by Mt-. Vandeventer to report from committee on military affairs............................. 863 amendment of, to l)roposition of Mr. Browning in reference to railroad and municipal indeb tedness of Quincy, Illinois..........1814,1849,1867 amendment of, to report from com mittee on rules, i n re fe rence to the adoption of rule i0, limiting speechles................. amendment of, to resolution of Mr. Houatnn a in refe-rence to election of nelegate to convention in p lace of lon. B. W. Ienry..................... 1031 amendment of, to resolution of Mr. Snyder in reference to payment of temporary employes of conven tion............................... 92 amendment of, to resolution of in quiry of Mr. Goodliue to Secretary of State, State Treasurer and Audi tor, in r-ference to their services and fees......... i.................. 146 amendment of, to sections 10, 11, 13 and 16 of report from committee on judiciary....1029, 1039, 1119, 1204, 1195 samendment of, to section 13 of report from committee on judiciary, as amended in committee of the whole.............................1417 amendment of, to section 32 of article on judiciary, as reported by com mittee on revision and adjustment. 18i3 amendment of, to sections $ and 10 of report firom committee on legisla tive department........... 698, 725, 729 amendment of, to section 5 of report from committee on legislative de partment ar amended in committee of the whole....................... cmt941 amendment of, to section 1 of report from committee onil miscellaneous subjects, in reference to homestead exemptions........................ 902 amendment of, to section 1 of report from committee on revenue........1201 I amendment of, to section 12 of sched ule, as reported by committee on revision and adjustment...........1858 amendment of, to section 1 of report firom committee on State, county and municipal indebtedness...... 219 appointed member of committee on counties....................... t.... 75 appointed member of executive com mittee............................. 7.5 appointed member of committee on judicial circuits.................... 75 appointed member of committee on legislative apportionment......... 75 appointed member of committee on revision and adjustment...........1338 appointed member of committee on rules of convention.............. 56 appointed member of committee to pnrepare address to the people of the a taroem..............................1783 o elected president pro ter.............1550...P 19O leave of absence granted to. 244, 573 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on edu cation, as amended in committee of the whole..........1751s remarks of, in debate in conventionb on report irom committee on exec uutive, as amended in committee of thefweolen..................9. 1374, 1382 BILL OF RIGHTS, COMMITTEE ON-Cgn tinned. resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Atkins, in reference to privilege of citizens in regard to food and drink............................ 260 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Goodell, in reference to preamble. 262 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Underwood, in reference to jury verdicts in civil cases.............. 858 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Vandeventer, in reference to right of prisoner's counsel in criminal tri als................................ 321 BILLINGS, IIENRY W.-(a Delegate from the Sixteenth Representative District.) announcement of the death of....... 1446 appointed member of committee on education......................... 75 appointed member of judiciary com mittee............................ 75 appointed member of committee on miscellaneous corporations........ 75li leave of absence granted to........ 96, 167 remarks of, in debate on resolution in reference to oath of office....... 26 remarks on announcement of death of.......................... 1446 to 1451 resolution of condolence of Mr. Springer, in reference to death of. 1446 resolution of instruction to judiciary committee, in reference to the es tablishment of local courts.......... 78 remirks of, in debate on report from committee on retrenchment and reform, in reference to convention and assembly expenses since 1862.. 22, remarks of, in debate on report from committee on revenue............. 1201 1244, 1245, 1269, 1270 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on revision and adjust ment, on article on corporations...1839 -remarks of, in debate on report from committee'on revision and ad justment on article on executive...1789 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on roads and internal improvements..................... 887 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on schedule............ 1794 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on state, county and municipal indebtedness...215, 218, 836 remarks of, in debate on resolutions in reference to oath of office....... 7, 8 remarks of, in debate on resolution of Mr. Allen, of Crawford, authoriz ing committee on legislative de partment to employ clerk......... 11X remarks of, in debate on resolution of Mr. Hlaines, of Lake, in reference to oath of office....................35, C5 remarks of, in debate on resolution of Mr. Parks in reference to furnishing stationery to members of conven tion............................... 66 remarks of, in debate on resolution of Mr. Snyder in reference to fur nishing newspapers to members of convention........................ 63 remarks of, in debate on resolution of Mr. Wagner in reference to com mittee rooms..................488, 489 remarks of, in debate on resolution of Mr. Washburn in reference to printing resolutions............... 88remarks of, in debate on resolution - of Mr. Wells in reference to election of delegate to convention in place of Hon. W. H. Patterson, deceased 199 remarks of, in debate on the subject of convention printing....... 1179,1181 remarks of, in debate on the subject of recess of convention............ 869 remarks of, in reference to order of business.......................... 854 remarks of, on additional sections to report from cominitye on legisla tive department................... 74a I i i I I i 20 BINDING journal of convention, resolution of Mr. Vandev(,,nter in reference to... 176 BOARD of equalization, state, resolution or instruction of Mr. Cummings to committee on finance in reference to abolishment of.................. 615 of equalization, -,stttte, resolution of instruction of Mr. -Parker to com laiittee on revenue in reference to abolishment of.............. i... 212 -of public charities, resolution in r,truction of Mr. PeireQ to commit tee on state institutions and public buildings in reference to appoint ment of........................... 84 of supervisory of Cook county, com munication from clerk of, in refer ence to certain proceedings of said board.............................. 155 BOARDS,of supervisors,, etc., Communication in referene to............... 1.111,11, 281 'of supervisors, resolution of instruc tion of Mr. Wheaton to committee on townrhip organization, in refer ence to............................ 155 BOUNDARIES article on....................:....... 278 article on, referred to committee on revision and adjustment........... 279 report from committee on revision and adjustment, on article on. 1776 .,of counties. reso Ution of instruc ion ,of Mr. Wagner to committee on 'counties in reference to............ 179 'BOW.AIAN, W. G.-(a Delegate from. the 3d -Representative Dlitriet.) appointed member of committee on education......................... 75 appointed member of committee- on minina and mining interests....... 93 appoint,d'member of committee on public accounts and expenditures.. 75 appointed member of committee on retrenchment and reform.......... 75 appointed member of committee on right of suffra,(.................... 75 leave of absence granted to. 573, 1139, 1575 remarks ef, in debate on report from committees on canal and enal lands and on internal improvements..... 448 remarks of, on announcement of the death of Hon. II. W. Billings...... 1449 resolution in reference to the encour agemetit of learning............... 211 resolution in reference to payment of officers and members of convention. 190 BRIBERY at elections, rec-olut-.on gg Mr. Wait in reference to.................... INDEX. 21 BROWN, REV. MR. prayer offered by....................75 BROWNING, O.. H.-(a Delegate from the Twenty-eighth Representative District.) additional section to report from committee on judiciary, offered by.1144 additional section to report from c ommittee on miscellaneous sub jects, in reference to divorce, of fered by................1204, 1692; amendment of, to amendment of Mr. Allen, of Crawford, to section 4 of report from committee on revenue, as amended in committee of the whole.............................1601 amendment of, to amendment of Mr. Fox, to section 5 of report from committee on judiciary, as amend ed in committee of the whole.......sm...1429. amendment of, to amendment of Mr. Hayes to section 1 of report from committee on judiciary, as amended in committee of the whole......... 1397. amendment of, to lines 13 and 14 of section 33 of report from commit- tee on legislative department.. 591, 593 amendment of, to resolution of Mr. Allen of Crawford, in reference to t manner of printing reports from committees....................... 251 amendment of, to resolution of Mr. Church in reference to oath of of fice............................... 21 amendment of, to resolution of Mr. Turner, in reference to care of hall during recess of convention.......1190 amendment of, to section 7 of report from committee on counties, as anrended in committee of the.' whole.............................1552 amendment of, to sections 12 and 24 A of report from committee on execu tive department............... 780, 792 amendment of, to sections 1, 2, 15 and 35 of report from committee on ju — diciarv.............11 d98, 992, 1137, 1171 amendment of, to sections 12, 26 and 36 of report from committee on judiciary, as amended in commit tee of the whole..1406, 1467, 1468, 1479 amendment of, to sections 1, 3, 4 and 43 of report from committee on leg islative department............... 499 507, 730, 669, 670 amendment of, to section 1 of re port from committee on miscellaneous subj-;cts, in reference to homestead; exemptions................... 902, 904 amendments of, to sectionss, 9 and 18 r of report from committee on sched ul e................ 1797, 1805, 1810 amendment of, to section 14 of re port from committee on state county and municipal indebted- ness............................... 846 amendment of, to substitute of Mr. Allen, of Crawford, to section 8 of report from committee on counties, as amended in commiuAttee of the whole-........................... 152010 amendment of, to substitute of Mr. 1 Hayea to section 40 of report from committee on judiciary, as amend- 1 ed in committee of the whole..... 1482 amendment of, to substitute of Mr. Medil to section 1 of report fromm committee on future amendments, as amended in committee of the: whole........... -..........193 appointed member of committee on congressional apportionment —-— 7......tion 75 appointed member of committee on electoral and representative re form........................ "/75 appointed member of judiciary com-; mittee-................ —---—... cm5 appointed member of committee on municipal corporations.............em 7-5 appointed member of committee on rules of convention............... 56 appointed member of committee on schedule................remarks of.i.ebt.......... o r appointed member of committee to, prepare address to the people of the State..........-.......1783 communication in reference to par doning power and divorce, submit ted by-............................ 167 leave of absence granted to-....851, 1234 majority report from committee on instiutios inrefernce o meb~i-municipal corporations, submittedanasebyxpnesic1 2- 2 byor in.State peitentiary. 1 y 390 BROM WELL, H. P. H.-Continued. remarks of, on amendment to propo sition of Mr. Browning in reference to railroad and municipal indebted necs of Quiiey, Illinois....... 1814,1849 remarks of, on ann ounc e men t of the death of [ a-. Clmrlo* Emmerson..1336 rermarks of, on anno-acement of the d4*th of ]Won. A. C,. Kirkpatrick..129 remas,ks of, ow fuion of prsident pro tem.....................7, 2 remarks of, on prese ntat ion of report from committee on right of suf frage.......................... 159, 160, remarks of, on proposition in refer ence to adoption of constitution...183 remarks of, on question of privi lege........................ 1178,1226 remarks of, on report firom committee on accounts and expenditures of contention, in reference to expenses of convention.1 78 8 remarks of, on report f om committee on rules, in reference to the adop tion of rule 50, limiting speeches... 490 rem,arks of, on resolution of Mr. Wheaton, in reference to abolish. ment of committee of the whole...1368 remarks of on resolution of instruc-, tion of Mr. Moore to Auditor of State and Treasurers of State Nor-' mal School and Industrial Univer-! sity, in reference to Superintendent of Public Instruction.............. 1390e remarks of, on reso!ution of instrue,. tion to committee on legislature, in reference to imposition by railroad and other corporations............ 84 remarks of, on the subject of printing prayers offered in convention...... 140 report from committee on rules in re f(.rence to the adoption of rule 50, limiting speeches, submitted by... 490 resolution in reference to cleaning of hall during recess of convention...1210 resolution in reference to extra em ployes of convention.............. 1012 resolution in reference to furnishing f newspapers to members of COnTert-; t ion............................... 12 resolution in reference to furnishing stationery to members of conven tion............................... 66: resolution in reference to memorial page in journal of convention...... 1634 resolution in reference to right of a-' peal........................... 7? resolution in reference to &asrices of state officials...................... 1282 resolution in reference to ship canal..1869 resolution of instruction to commit. tee on judiciary, in reference to - eminent domain in regard to rail. roads.............................. 487 resolution of instruction to commit. tee on judiciary, in reference to uni formity of laws throughout the state.............................. 116 resolution of instruction to commit tee on legislature, in reference to imposition by railroads and other corporations..................... 8 resolution of instruction to commit tee on legislature, in reference to quorums................,i12 substitutes of, to portion of report from committee on canal and canal: lands, and on internal improve ments................. 339 BROWNING, O. H. —Contintted. petition in reference to location of national capital, submitted by..... 280 petition in reference to the right of suffrage, submitted by.............. 479 petition in referencte to the use of the bible in comm on schools, submit- ted by............................ 621p proposition in reference to railroad and municipal indebte dnes s of Quincy, Ill., submitted by......... 1761 remarks of, in debate, in reference to election of postmaster of conven tion,................... e remarks of, in debate on amendment of Mr. Merriam to resolution of in quiry of Mr. Fox to State Auditor, in reference to expenses of General Assembly since 1862............. 68, ( remarks of, in debate on amendment of Mr. Turner to resolution of in quiry of Mr. Fox, to State Auditor, in reference to expenses of general assembly since 1862................ 70 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on coun ties, as amended in committee of the whole.....................1....155 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on edu cation, as amended in committee of the whole..............,.1752 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on future amendments, as amended in com mittee of the whole...............159 8 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on judi ciary, as amended in committee of the whole.. 1397,1406,1418,1427,1428,1429 1430,1431,1467,1479,1482,1486,1493 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on legis lative department, as amended in committee of the whole....921,922, 954 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on rail road corporations, as anmended in committee of the whole......... 1716 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on reve nue, as amended in committee of the whole................... 1601,1612 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on sched ule, as amended in committee of the whole.................... 1821,182 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on bill of rights........ 1569 remarks of, in debate on reports from committees on canal and canal lands, and on internal improve ments.... 332,431,439,441,442,443,461,462 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on executive depart ment....................... "1,779,780 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on judiciary...gt, 080, 990 992, 1001, 1005, 1009, 101l, 1013 1016,,1017, 1028, 1044, 1041, 1048 1051, 1052? 10.54, 1050, 1068, laid 1079, 10S5, 1093, 1096, 1116, 1127 1157, 1191, 1192, 1198, 1215, 12'2~ remarks of, in debate on report from committee on legislative depart ment....541, 591, 598, 594, 600, 605, 606 615' 625, 669, 680, 688, 78S 733 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on mines and mineral interesets, in reference to the protec tion of the lives 6f miners.................... 27b remarks of, in debate on repart from committee onl miscellaneous corpo rations............ 1624,!6i66, 1668 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on miscellaneous sub jeers, in reference to homestead ex emptions...............,....... 901 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on munlicipal corpora tions...................1670, 161, 167.5 remarks of, in debate on reptort from -committee on printing and binding, in reference to p~rinlting and bined ing convention debates....108, 107, 108 remarks of, in debate on report from commnittee on railroad corporations.164~ remarks of, in debate on report from committee on retrenchment and re -fdrm, in reference to conventUion and assembly expenses since 1'6.. 228 *~~~~~~~~~22) 2 43 i [ INDEX. 21 BROWN, GEO. W.-(a Delegate from the Second Representative District.) appointed member of committee on finance............................ 75 appointed member of committee on future amendments................,5 appointed member of committee on internal improvements............ 75 appointed member of committee on township organization............. 75 leatv of absence granted to.......... 479 minority report from committee on future amendments, submitted by. 424 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on legislative depart ment.............................. 659 -resolution in reference to adjourn ment, sine die, of convention....... 249 resolution of instruction to commit tee on penitentiary and reformatory institutions in reference to raecl-a ical labor in State penitentiary.... 192 INDEX. BROWNING, O. H.. —Continued. remarks of, on resolution of inquiry of Mr. Anthony, to Alexander Starne, trustee, &c., and to Auditor of State, in reference to lands be longing to Joel A. Matteson....f... 334 remarks of, on resolution of instruc tion of Mr. Haines, of Lake, to committee on judiciary, in refer enmce to considering railroads as common carriers, &c.............. 148 remarks of, on rules of convention, in reference to township and county organization..................... 73 remarks of, on submission of report from committee on accounts and expenditures of convention........1209 remarks of, on submission of majority report from committee on municipal corporations...................... 390 resolution in reference to adjourn ment.......................... 191, 615 resolution in reference to afternoon sessions of convention............. 282 resolution in reference to divorces... 128 resolution in reference to hour of ad journment of convention.......... 141 resolution in reference to organization of convoention......4rmr 4 substitute of, to amendment of Mr. Wells to section 14 of report from committee on judiciary........... 1054 substitute of, to portion of report from committees on canal and canal lands and on internal improve ments........................ 478 substitute of, to resolution or Mr. Wheaton, in reference to limitation of debate in committee of the whole. 614 substitute of, to section 7 of report from committee on judiciary......1224 substitute of, to section 7 ot report from committee on judiciary, as amended in committee of the whole.1431 substitute of, to section 40 of report from committee on legislative de partument......................... 625 substitute of, to substitute of Mr. Wagner, to additional section of fered by Mr. Bayne to report from committee on education, as amend ed in committee of the whole....... 1752 BRYAN, S. L.-(a Delegate from the 9th Rep resentative District.) amendment of, to portion of report from committee on printing and binding, in reference to printing journal, laws, etc................. 256 o 1 amendment of, to report of commit tee on printing and binding, in ref ecrenee to furnishing manual to the convention.............i e e.... 145 amendment of, to resolution of Mr. Allen of Crawford, authorizing com mittee on legislative department to employ clerk...................... 114 appointed member of executive coinm mittee............................ 75 appointed member of committee on future amendments................ 75 appointed member of committee on judicial circuits................... 75 appointed member of committee on miscellaneous subjects............ 75 communication in reference to the es tablishment of public libraries, sub mitted by......................... 451 communication in reference to the use of the bible in common schools, submitted by...................... 745 leave of absence granted to....... 5,.. W599 851, 965, 1077 remrks oarof, in debate in convention non report from committee on reve nue, as amended in committee of the whole................... 1616, 1617 remarks of, in debate, in reference to election of assistant postmaster to convention...................... 54t remarks of in debate on report firom committee on bill of rights........1565 remarks of, in debate on report firom commmittees on canal and canal lands at;d on internal improve ments........................311, 212 remarks of, in debate on report friom committee on legislative depart ment o..........500, 503, 534, 544, 552 remarks ofk in debate on report from committee on miscellaneous corpo rations.......................16.....1668 BROWNING, O. H.-Continued. I remarks of, In debate on report from I committee on rules of convention.. 60 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on schedule....... 1806, 1810, remarks of, in debate on report from | committee on state, county and mu nicipal indebtedness............... 214 222, 303, 304, 846, 847 remarks of, in debate on resolution in reference to afternoon sessions of l convention.................... 282, 2831 remarks of, in debate on resolutions in reference to oath of office..22, 23, 42, 46 remarks of, in debate on resolution of Mr. Allen, of Crawford, in refer ence to printina veto messages..... 152 remarks of, in debate on resolution of Mr. Anthony, in reference to state and national government.......... 99 remarks of, in debate on resolution of Mr. Craig to furnish members of convention with daily papers...... 181 remarks of, in debate on resolution of Mr. English, in reference to recess of convention..................... 827 remarks of, in debate on resolution of Mr. Peirce, in reference to reports of standing committees............ 259 remarks of, in debate on resolution of Mr. Turner, in reference to conven tion printing...................... 96 remarks of, in debate on resolution of Mr. Wagner, in reference to com mittee rooms...................... 489 remarks of, in debate on resolution of Mr. Wells, in reference to election of delegate to convention in place of Hon. W. H. Patterson, deceased. 197 remarks of, in debate on resolution of inquiry of Mr. Anthony, to Auditor of State, in reference to railroads.. 913 remarks of, in debate on the subject of printing prayers offered in con vention........................... 170 remarks of, in reference to adjourn ment.............................. 190 remarks of, in reference to order of business...............231, 309, 336, 337 remarks of, in reference to printing of debates.........................1030 remarks of, on additional section of fered to report from committee on miscellaneous subjects, in reference to divorce......1207 remarks of, on election of president pro ter............................ 4 remarks of, on proposition in refer ence to railroad and municipal in debtedness of Quincy, III.......... 1761 1762, 1867, remarks of, on report fi om committee on accounts and expenditures of convention in reference to expenses of convention..................... 1787 remarks of, on report from committee on judiciary, in reference to emi nent domain....................... 704 remarks or, on report from committee on municipal corporations......... 391 remarks of, on resolution in reference to adjournment......................... 615 remarks of, on resolution in reference to hour of adjournment of conven tion...................... 141 remarks of, on resolution of Mr. Bromwell, in reference to furnish ing stationery to members of con vention................<.... 66 remarks of, on resol ution of Mr. Bry an in reference to order of business 453 remarks of, on resolution of Mr. Cary in reference to emnploying additionl al clerical force...........................71 remarks of, on resolution of Mr. Parks in reference to powers and duties of convention................ 92 remarks of, on resolution Go Mr. Turn er in reference to payment of pages of cgnvention.................................... 75 remarks of, on resolution of Mr. Wall in reference to ratification of amend mnents to constitution...................... 56 remarks of, on resolution of Mr. Washburn to refund value oxf post age stamps............,.... 346 remarks of, on resolution of Mr. Wendling in reference to furnish ing additional postage stamps to secretary of convention....................... 367 ~remarks of, on lresolutionu of' Mr. Wheaton in reference to limit of de:bate in committee of the Whole....................Gw BUREAU of agriculture, &c., resolution of Mr. Anthony in reference to establish menrt of........................... 153 of statistics, resolution of Mr. Wells to establish........................ 213 of statistics, resolution of Mr. Wells to establish, reported back from committee on miscellaneous sub jects.............................. 257 I I I I I I 22, BRYAN, S. L.-CoAtinued. remarks of, on report from commit tee on printing and binding........ 113 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on retrenchment and re form, in references lo, convention and assembly expenses since, 1860,.. 230 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on state, county and municipal indebtedness............ 219 remarks of, in debate n resolution of Mr. Allen, of Crawfoid, author izing committee on legislative de partment to employ clerk.......... 114 remarks of, in debate on resolution of Mr. Church, to adopt rule 49, in ref erence to effect of tabling amend ments............................. 186 remarks of, in debate on resolution of Mr. English, in referer-ce to adjourn ment.............................. 86 remarks of, on report from committee on future amendments............. 4')5 remarks of, on resolution in reference to order of business............... 453 remarks of, on resolution of Mr. Un derwood in reference to essay on the origin of the prairles...: I' 1481, 482 remarks of, on resolution of instruc tion of Mr. Cameron, to committee on accounts and expenditures of convention, in reference to post master of convention.............. 758 relnarks of, on the subject of print ing prayers offered in convention.. 139 resolution in rcfereinc(,, to adjourn MeDt, sine die, of convention...... 1859 resul utioti in reference to circuit court litigation, etc..................... 134 resolution in reference to considering railroad corporations as individuals 150 resolution in reference to election and compensation of State offlcers..... 83 resolution in reference to future con stitutiolial conventions............ 135 resolution ill reference to manner of submission of amended constitu tio,n to the people.................. 135 resolution in reference to order of business........................... 453 resolution in reference to support of public institutions by the State.... 260 resolution in reference to use of hall of representatives for lecture...... 1608 resolution of instruction to commit tee on miscellaneous subjects, in reference to the -orporate limits of towns and cities................... 211 resolution of instruction in reference to corporate limits of towns and cities, reported -back, from commit tee on miscellaneous subjects and referred to committee'on munici pal corporations................... 858 BRYAN, THOS. B.-(returned Delegate from the FifLy-eighth Representative District, but not elected. H. H. Cody elected from this District.) BUNCOMBE resolution of Mr. Goodell lu refer, ence to............................ 758 BUSINESS r marks in reference to order of.....223 231, 263, 264, SOS to 310, 336 .-37, 744, 832, 833, 854, 855 858, 859, 883, 1061, 1198, 1199 1209, 1211, 1260, 1307, 1319 1557, 1558, 1649, 1650, 1726 resolution of Mr. Bryan, in reference to order of........................ 453 resolution of Mr. King to amend - rule 44 in regard to order of....... 169 resolution of instruction of Mr. Ross to committee on rules, in reference,to facilitation of......0.......... 1233 -.................................... 23 BUXTON, HARVEY P.-(a Delegate from the Seventh Representative District ) amendment of, to additional sec tiolp offered by Mr. Vandeventer to report from committee on mili tary affai rs........................ 863 amendment of, to amendment of Mr. Bromiwell to section 1 of report from committee on revenue........1255 amendment of, to amendment of Mr. Fuller to section 18 of report from committee on judiciary......107 3, 1074 amendment of, to lines 1, 5, 8, 12, 26, 27 and 28 of section 33 of report from committee on legislative de partment..................... 587, 612 amendment of, to portion of report from committee-on printing and binding, in reference to printing of journal, laws, etc.................. 247 amendment of, to proposition of Mr. Browning, in reference to railroad and municipal indebtedness of Quincy, Ill........................1867 amendment of, to report from com mittees on bill of rights and miscel laneous subjects, in reference to preamble.......................... 277 amendment of, to resolution of Mr. Haines, of Lake, in reference to submission of constitution...... 1596 amendment of, to resolution of in struction of Mr. Cummings to con< mittee on printing and binding, in reference to cost of convention printing........................... 532 amendment of, to section 4 of report from committee on counties, as amended in committee of the whole............................. 1506 amendment of, to sections 16, 20 and 23 of report from committee on ju diciary.......................1060, 1094 amendment of, to sections 3, 12, 31 and 33 of report from committee on legislative department..501,522,571,587 amendment of, to section 18 of report from committee on legislative de partment, as amended in committee of the whole..................945, 951 amendment of, to section 4 of report from committee on miscellaneous corporations, in reference to ware houses.......................1632,1635 amendment of, to section 1 of report from committee on railroad corpo rations............................1639 amendment of, to section 4 of report from committee on railroad corpo rations, as amended in committee of the whole...................... 1716 amendment of, to section 2 of report from committee on revenue........ 1264 amendment of, to section 6 of report from committee on revenue, as amended in committee of the whole............................. 1607 amendment of, to section 9 of report from committee on schedule, as amended in committee of the whole...... X..............................1824 amendment of, to section 2 of lreport from committee on State, county and municipal indebtedness, as amended in committee of the whole........................... *..12g7 amendment of, to substitute of M~r. Dement to section 24 of report from committee on legislative de partment.............. 555 amendment of, to substitute of Mr. Hanna to section 4 of report from committee on state, county and mu nicipal indebtedness....................... 850 amendment of, to substitute of Mr. Medill to section 1 of report from -committee on future amendments, as amended- in committee of the whole..................................1592 amendment of, to substitute of Mr. Wall to section 7 of report fromn committee on judiciary...................1021 appointed member of committee on judicial divisions of the state l...103 appointed member of committee on manufactures and agriculture....75 appointed member of committee on railroad corporations...........*... 75 appointed member of committee on revision and adjustment......133 8 appointed member of committee on right of suffrage......*.......*.. 75 I —7 leave of absence granted to...... 167,1338 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on judi ciary, as amended in committee of the whole................ 1403, 1404 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on legis lative department, as amended in committee of the whole............0... 960 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on r ight of suffrage, as amended in commit tee of the whole........ 1283, 128S, 1308 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on bill of rights.........1580 remarks of, in debate on report from committees on bill of rights and miscellaneous subjects, in reference to preamble.......2 a............... 277 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on judiciary............1021 1033, 1060, 1094 CALL OF CONVENTION remarks on the subject of........... 793 CAMERON, DANIEL-(a Delegate from the Sixty-first Representative District.) additional section to report from committee on counties, offered by................................ 1 367 amendment of, to report from com mittee on mines and mineral inter ests, in reference to tire protection of the lives of miners.............. 273 amendment of,to report from commit tee on printing and binding, in ref erence to publication of constitu tion...............................1732 amendment of, to section 1 of article on counties, as reported by com mittee on revision and adjust ment..............................18 35 amendment of, to eection 141of report from committee on executive de partment.......................... 781 amendment of, to section 15 of report from committre on judiciary, as amended in committee of the whole.............................1459 amendment of, to section 28 of report from committee on legislative de partment........................... 558 amendment of, to section 6 of report from committee on revenue........ 1272 amendment of, to section 1 of re port from committee on revenue, as amended in coinmittee of the whole............................. 1620 amendment of, to section 13 -of re port from committee on schedule..1804 amendment of to substitute of Mr. Church to portion of report from committees on canal a-nd canal lands and on internal improve ments............................. 336 appointed member of committee on military affairs...................... 75 appointed member of committee on mining and mineral interests...... 93 appointed member of committee on printing and binding.............. 75 appointed member ot committee on right of suffrage.................. 75 appointed member of committee on state, county and municipal indebt edness............................ 75 appointed member of committee to measure printed matter, etc., of convention.................. 1 860, 1865 appointed member of committee to receive General Sheridan..........1416 leave of absence granted t o.......... 483 majority report from committee on military affairs, submitted bv...... 293 memorial in reference to Cook county judiciary, submitted by........... 1077 petition in reference to county and township lines, submitted by..... 679 petition in reference to the division of Cook county, submitted by.... 365, 851 petition in reference to the division of counties, submitted by.... 306 petition from National Union of Bricklayers of North America, in reference to proportionate represen tation, submitted by....................... 235 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on judi ciary, as amended in committee of the whole...v.....................144 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on leg islative department, as amended in committee of the whole......... 924 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on mis cellaneous subjects, in reference to homestead exemptions, as amended in committee of the whole.....1691 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on revenue, as amended in committee of the whole..................1618 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on legislative depart ment.................495, 496, 559, 581 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on military affairs...... 863 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on miscellaneous cor porations, in reference to ware houses............................ 16f8 remarks of, on report from commit tee on printing and binding, in ref- erence to printing journal, laws, etc...............tc4 r.247, 255, 2565 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on railroad corpora tions.............................. 1639 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on retrenchment and re form, in reference to convention and assembly expenses since 1862...... 244 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on revenue....... 1252, 1253 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on right of suffrage.....18 aednoftsci 1281 remarks of, on proposition of Mr. Browning in reference to railroad and municipal indebtedness of Quincy, Ill........................1866 remarks of, on resolution of instruc tion of Mr. Goodhue, to committee on revision and adjustment, in ref erence to section 6 of article on right of suffrage...................1662 remarks of, on resolution of instruc tion of Mr. Moore, to Auditor of State and Treasurers of State Nor mal School and Industrial Univer sity in reference to Superintendent of Public Instruction..............1392 report from committee on railroad corporations, submitted by........ 480 resolution in reference to control of school funds....................... 127 r esolution in reference to levying of taxes.............................. 127 resolution in reference to publica tion and distribution of proceedings of convention..................... 62 resolution in reference to rights and duties of individuals and associa tions..........................1277 resolution in reference to the sepa rate submission of question of fe male-suffrage......................1308 resolution in reference to uniform as sessment of taxes....1 ptt.............. 127 resolution in reference to use of hall of representatives for lecture...... 345 resolution of instruction to commit tee on judicial circuits, in reference to judicial division of State........ 1277 substitute of, to reports of commit tees on bill of rights and miscella neous subjects in reference to pre amble.......................... 235 substitute of, to section 2 of report from committee on military af fairs................................ 863 substitute of, to section 1 of report from committee on miscellaneous corporations, in reference to ware houses........................1628 substitute of to section 1 of report from committee on revenue......1255 substitute of, to section 9 of report from committee on schedule, as amended in committee of the whole....1826we........ 1826 INDEX. 23 BUXTON. HARVEY P,-Continved. BUXTON, HARVEY P.-Continued. substitute of, to section I of report from committee on State, county and municipal indebtedness....... 217 CALAMITY at Richmond, resolution of condo lence of Mr. Hayes in reference to-1537 24 I 5NDLatZXi CAMERON, DANIEL.-Coontinued. remarks of, on resolution of instruc tion of Mr. Goodhlue, to committee on revision and adjustment, in ref erence to section 6 of article on right of suffrage...................1662 remarks of, on resolution of instruc tion to committee on accounts and expenditures of convention, in ref erence to postmaster of convention 758 remarks of, on resolution of instruc tion to committee on printing and binding, in reference to cost of con vention printing.................. 532 remarks of, on resolution to appoint committee on mines and mining in terests...........................81, 85 remarks of, on resolution to rescind resolution to print proposed amendments to constitution......16 uit bM. 116 remarks of, on the subject of the reference of article 14th, concern ing emigration of people of color, to a select committee.............. 82 remarks of, on substitute to resolu tion of Mr. Peirce, in reference to additional pay of secretaries of con vention.......................... 1869 report from commiittee on printing and binding, in reference to printing co nstitution and address, etc., sub mitted by....................1790, 1846 report from committee on printing and binding, in reference to printing and binding convention debates, submitted by...................... 101 resolution inviting Gen. Sheridan and staff to visit convention...........1408 resolution limiting speeches..........1596 resolution in reference to the fifteenth amendment....................... 174 resolution in reference to the present system of numbering ballots.......98 resolution in reference to the transfer of townships...................... 192 resolution of instruction to COnillt tee on accounts and expenditures ot convention, in reference to post master of convention.............. 758 resolution to appoint committee on mines and mining interests.......81, 85 resolution to appoint committee to receive Gen. Sheridan..............1403 resolution to rescind resolution to print proposed ameidLments to con stitution.......................... 116 substitute of, to report from commit tec on mines and mineral interests, in reference to the protection of the lives of miners.................... 265 substitute of, to resolution of Mr. Pierce, in reference to additional pay to secretaries of convention.... 1869 substitute of, to resolution of Mr. Turner, in reference to convention printing...........................M. 1203 substitute of, to section 2 of report froin committee on miscellaneous subjects, in reference to homestead exemption, as amended in commit tee of the whole.......................... 1691 CAMERON, D ANIEL.-Conztinued. remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on right of suffrage, as amended in commit te e of t he wuhole.................... 1286 remarks of, in debate in convention on rep ort from committee on sched ule, as amended in committee of the whole................... 1820, 1825,1826 remarks of, in d ebate o n report from committee on banks and currency.1682 remarks of, in debate tn report from committees on canal and canal lands, and on internal imdrove ments........................ 350, 463 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on counties............ 1367 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on education........... 1744 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on electoral and repre sentative refbrm.................. 1727 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on executive depart. ment.............................. 781 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on judiciary....... 1148, 1159 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on legislative depart ment...558, 595,,624, 625. 699, 713, 741 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on military affairs...... 860 861, 86o), 863, 865 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on mines and mineral in terests, in reference to the protec tion of the lives of miners.......... 265 268, 270, 273 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on printing and bind in,.......... 101, 105, 113, 125 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on printing and binding, in reference to constitution and ad dress, etc..................... 1846,1847 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on printing and binding, in reference to printing journal, laws, etc.................. 246, 252,,255 remarks of, in debate on, report froin committee on railroad corpora tiouns.................... 1638,1659,1660 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on revenue........ 1272,1273 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on revision and adjust ment, on article on counties....... 1835 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on schedule......1810 remarks of, in debate onl rep ort from committee on state, county and municipal indebtedness............ 302 remarks of, in debate on the subject of convention printing............. 1203 remarks of, in debate on the subject of printing debates............... 90 remarks of, in reference to construc tion of five-minute rule........... 1625 remarks of, in reference to order of business...................... 264, 859 remarks of, in reference to printing address and constitution.........1844 remarks of,7 in reference to lreport from committee on revision and adjustment...............1688 remarks of, on announcement of the death of Hon. Chas. Emmerson.... 1338 remarks of, on announcement ofs death of Hon. A. G. Kirkpatrick...1228 remarks of, on presentation of report from commnittee on right of suf frage.................. 158 remarks of~ on question of privilege. 178 ' ~~~~188, 1321 remarks of, on report frorn commit tee on printing and binding, in ref erence to publication of constitu tion *........................................ 1705 remarks of, on resolution in reference to 15th amendment........................ 174 remarks of; on resolution in refer ence to transfer of townships................... 192 remarks of, on res,lution of Mr. Sedgwick, in reference to furnlish ing newspapers to members of con venltion...................... 1263 remarks of, on resolution of Mr. Turner in reference to: donvention printinlg...^........................ 9f5 remarks of, on resolution of Mr. W~endling in reference to furnishing additionlal postage stam]~s to secre tary of convention.................e 368 CANAL AND CANAL LANDS, COMMI'T TEE ON appointment of..................... 75 communication in reference t) Illinois and Michigan canal, referred to....1477 communication in reference to state aid to railroads and canals, referred to................................. 1477 debate on report from.......... 310 to 479 debate in convention on report from, as amended in committee of the whole....................... 484 to 487 remarks on consideration of report from, in reference to certain modi fication of article on canal........ 1745 report from, submitted by Mr. Whea ton............................... 210 report from, in reference to certain modifications of article on canal, submitted by Mr. Whiting........ 1649 report from, referred to committee on revision and adjustment........ 487 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Goodhue, in reference to Illinois and Michigan canal............... 8, 83 resolutions, submitted by the presi dent, in reference to the regulation and development of State railroads and canals, referred to............ 147B CAPITAL national, communication in reference to location of..................... 179 national, memorial in reference to lo cation of.................. 211 national, petition in reference to lo cation of.......................... 230 national, resolution of Mr. Wells, in reference to location of............ 213 state, amendment of Mr. Haines, of Lake, to constitution, in reference to.................. 481 state, resolution of Mr. Snyder in reference to removal of............ 679 stack of private corporations, article in reference to municipal subscrip tions to........................... 11l04 stock of private corporations, article in reference to municipal subscrip tions to, debate on........ 1234 to 1242 stock of private corporations, article in reference to municipal sabscrip tion to, as amended in committee of the whole, debate on in conven tion............................... 1730 stock of private corporations, article in reference to municipal subscrip. tion to, referred to committee on schedule.......................... 1730 stock of railroads, resolution of Mr. Hart in reference to............... 3921 CARNAHAN, REV. MR. prayer offered by.................... 43 100, 332, 782, 798, 987, 1030 1226, 1232, 150N, 1575 remarks on consideration of report from committee on canal and canal lands, in reference to certain modi fications of article on.............1745 report from committee on canal and canal lands, in reference to certain modifications of article on.......1649 report from committee on revision and adjustment, on article on, sub meitted by Mr. Cody...............1834 resolution of inquiry of Mr. Whiting to Auditor of State, in reference to. 236 and canal lands, remarks in reference to article on............... 1832 to 1834 and canal lands, resolution of in struction of Mr. Hay, to committee on revision and adjustment, in reference to article on.............1833 Illinois and Michigan,commnunication from Auditor of State in reference to............................... 487 Illinois and Michigan, resolution of Mr. Whiting in reference to........ 100 Illinois and Michigan, resolution of Mr. Goodhue to committee on canal and canal lands in reference to....81,83 Illinois and Michigan, statistics in reference to cost of................ 366 I 24 INDEX. CARE of hall during recess of convention, resolution of Mr. Turner in refer ence to............................ 1190 CANAL CARPET for State arsenal, resolution of Mr. Fuller in reference to.............. CARY, WM.-(a Delegate from the Fifty seventh Representative District.) amendment of, to additional section offered by Mr. Vandeventer to re port from committee on military affairs............................. W3 amendment of, to amendment of Mr. Anderson to reportfrom committee on printing and binding........... 106 amendment of, to amendment of Mr. Archer to section 18 of report from committee on judiciary............. 1063 amendment of to amendnaent of Mr. P-oller to section 18 of report from committee on judiciary...... 1072, 1073 amendment of, to amendment of Mr. Wall to section 5 of re'port from committee oil judiciary, as amended in committee of the whole............................. l aidendment of, to report from com mittee on retrenchment and reform in reference to convention and as sembly expenses 243 INDEX. 25 CARY, WM.-Continued. remarks of, in debate on report from committee on judiciary........... 1010 1063, 1064, 1073, 1090, 1102, 1113, 1114 1118, 1135, 1168, 1175, 1184, 1190, 1191 CARY, WM.-Cont inuied. resolution of inquiry to State Secre tary, Treasurer and Auditor, in ref erence to expenses of 25th and 26th General Assemblies........... 429 resolution of inquiry to committee on printing and binding, in refer ence to manuals............ 137 resolution to postpone further con sideration of section 39 of report from committee on judiciary...... 1180 substitute of, to section 32 of- report from committee on legislative de partment.......................... 575 substitute of, to section 1 of report of committee on State, county and municipal indebtedness............... 2,18 voted for, for President, pro tem., of convention.......................... 6 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on legislative depart ment........................... 516 524, 525, 531, 540, 543 m 573, 597, 683, 700, 701 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on mines and mineral interests, in reference to the pro tection of the lives of miners..... 267 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on miscellaneous corpo rations, in reference to warehouses.1622 1623, 1631, 1634 CARY, WM.-Continued. amendment of, to resolution of Mr. B ryan, in reference t o order of bus! -ness............................... 453 amendment of, to resolution of Mr. Haines, of Lake, in reference to re c ess of convention................ 873 amendment of, t o resoluti on of Mr. Haines, of Lake,- in reference to veto messages ajsm..................... 153 a mendment of, to resolution of inqui ry of Mr. Archer to warden of i)en itentiary, in reference to convicts pardoned during the past ten years 156 amendment of, to section 13 of report from committee on judiciary...... 1128 amendment of, to sections 5-and 32 of report from committee on judiciary, as amended in committee of th e whole........................ 1430, 1475 amendment of, to sections 7, 32, 39 and 40 of report from committee on legislative department.721, 573, 651,617 amendment of, to sections 18 and 19 of report fiom committee on legis lative department, as amended.in committee of the whole........ 951, 929 amendment of, to sections 3 and 4 of report from committee on miscella neous corporations, in reference to warehouses.................. 1630, 1632 amendment of, to section 11 of report from committee on schedule...... 1804 amendment of, to section 8 of report from committee on schedule, as amended in committee of the whole.1822 amendment of, to section 4 of report from committee on state, county and municipal indebtedness....... 843 amendment of, to substitute of Mr. McCoy to section 4 of report from committee on counties............ 1329 amendment of, to substitute of Mr. Wells to resolution of Mr. Hanna, in reference to election of delegate to convention in place of Hon. B. W. Henry........................1032 appointed member of committee on legislature................. 75 appointed member of committee on municipal corporations............ 75 appointed member of committee on revenue........................... 75 appointed member of committee on revision and adjustment........... 75 appointed member of committee to prepare address to the people of the state.............................. 1783 leave of absence granted to...... 758, 865 petition in reference to observance of the Sabbath, submitted by........ 679 petition in reference to use of bible in common schools, submitted by.... 679 petition in reference to warehouse and railroad frauds, submitted by...... 627 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on fcoun ties, as'amended in committee of the whole....................1521, 1536 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on ledu cation7 as amended in committee of thle whole..................1748 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on judi ciary, as amended in committee of the whole....o.*...*....1419, 1430, 1474 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on legisla tive department,as amended in com mittee of the whole................926, 950 remarks of, in debate in convention, on report from committee on mis cellaneous corporations, in refer ence to warehouses, as amended in committee of the whole...............6.l96 remarks of, in debate in convenltion on report from committee on reve nue, as amended in committee of the whole................... 1602, 1612 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committcee on right of suffrage, as amended in committee of the whole................1299 remarks of, in debate on report from committed on canal and canal lands, anld on internal imprcve ments....... 317, 327, 328, 329, 417 remarks cf. in debate on report froma committee on counties............ 1329, 1341 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on executive deparnt ment — f~f*6'~*** 80 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on miscellaneous sub jects, in reference to homestead ex emptions..................... 898 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on printing and binding in reference to printing and binding convention debates................ 123 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on printing and binding, in reference to printing journal, laws, etc.......................... 255 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on retrenchment and reform, in reference to convention and assembly expenses since 1862.. 242 243 remarks of, i n debate on report from committee on revenue.1245, 1267, 1273 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on revision and adjust ment on article on counties........1835 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on schedule............ 1801 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on state, county and municipal indebtedness............. 843 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on township organiza tion........................... 878, 880 remarks of, in debate on resolution of Mr. Allen, of Alexander, in refer ence to oath of office.............. 28 remarks of, in debate on resolution of Mr. Allen, of Crawford, in reference to printing veto messages......... 153 remarks of, in debate on resolution of Mr. Craig, to furnish members of convention with daily papers...... 180 remarks of, in debate on resolution of Mr. English in reference to recess of convention........................ 827 remarks of, in debate on the subject of printing prayers offered in con vention........................... 168 remarks of, in reference to additional pay to secretaries of convention....1868 remarks of, in reference to order of business........................... 855 remarks of, on question of privilege.1165 remarks of, on resolution in reference to engrossing clerk................ 77 remarks of, on resolution of Mr.Wells to purchase 200 copies of manual... 145 remarks of, on resolution of inq uiry o f Mr. Dement to S ecretary of State, i n reference t o expenses of two last soessions of general assembly..... ofee.. 91 remarks of, on resolution of inquiry to State Secretary, Treasurer and Auditor, in reference to expenses of 25th and 26th general assemblies... 429 remarks of, on resolutions of instruc tion of Mr. Moore to Auditor of State and Treasurers of State Nor mal School and Industrial Uni versity, in reference to Superinten dent of Public Instruction.........1389 report from committee on miscellane ous corporations, submitted by....1155 resolution in reference to employing additional clerical force............ 70 resolution in reference to employing engrossing clerk amndet.f,t.mt..ofM. C7 resolution in reference to evening ses sions of convention.1087 resolution in reference to sectarian ap pro priations...................i ss. 85 resolution of inquiry to Governor of State, in reference to number of penitentiary convicts pardoned du - ring the past 10 years............P.... 168 CHeICAGO communication from Stone Cutters' Association of, in reference to con vict labor......................... 141 resolution of Mr. Snyder in reference to removal of convention to....... 325 CHURCH, L. S.-(a Delegate from the Fifty fourth Representative District.) i INDEX. 25 CERTAIN-.,. articles of the constitution, resolu - tion in reference to printing,.,...... 11 employes of conventions resolution of Mr. Haines, of Laie- in refer ence to payment of........ employes of convention, resolution of Mr. Turner in reference to, pay, Ment of.............j.... I.......... ii. 1189 CERTIFICATE of election of Ferris Forman,, pre sented by Ntr. Wall 1232 of election of Joln 4a' sented by Mr. Goodell............. 451 of election of Henry Tubbs, presented by the President.................. 1319 CHANCERY BUSINESS resolution of instruct7on of Mr. Craig, to judiciary committee in refrence to.................................. 93 CHANGES proposed in judiciary system, petition in reference to.................... 3120 CHAPLAINS resolution of instruction of Mr. Ra,ana, to committee on accounts and expenditures of convention, in . reference to pay of................ IM CIIARITY BALL resolution of Mr. Wendling to at. tend............................... 182 CHILDREN white and colored, resolution of Mr. Washburn in reference to separate schools ft)r........... 679 .............. white and colored, resolution of Mr. Washburn in reference to separate schools for, called up and acted upon.............................. 703 additional section (3) to report from commit,.ee on railroad corporations, offered by............ d "' i"i di. 1648 amendment of, to amen m n o Ray to section 15 of report from committee on judiciary, as amend ed in committe of the whole.....-. 1459 amendment of, to amendment of iAr. Parks to section 32 of report from committee on judiclary,,as amend ed in committee of the whole......1475 amendment of, to lines, 26,27 and, 28 of.section 33 of report from colu mittee on legislative department.,. 610 amendment of, to motion-of Iqr. Cam e,ron in reference to the further con siderati6n of the report from com _tee on State, county'a4d,munici pal indebtedness................. 273 amendment of, t6'report from com mittee, bii — bill of rights, in .refer ence to the distribution of the pow ers of the State government... *.... 281 26 JND X CHURCH, L. S.-Continued. amendment of, to report fro m com mittee on public accounts and ex peinditure3, in reference to future appropriations for State house.....1772 amendment of, to resolution of Mr. Haines, of Lake, in reference to re cess of convention................. 873 amendment of, to resolution of Mr. Hanna, in reference to printing de bates.............................. 90 amendment of, to resolution of Mr. Henry, in reference to furnishing newspapers to members of conven tion............................... 62 amendment of, to resolution of Mr. Wells, in reference to election of delegate to convention in place of Hlon. Wm. H. Patterson, deceased. 204 amendment of, to resolution of in struction to committee on revision and adjustment, in reference to arti cle on railroad corporations....... 1731 amendment of, to section 7 of report from committee on counties, as amended in committee of the whole............................. 1552 amendment of, to section 1 of report from committee on education......1733 amendment of, to sections 1 and 10 of report from committee on execu tive department........... 749, 752 778 amendment of, to sections 4 and 32 of report from committee on judi ciary.......................... 1000, 1171 amendment of, to sections 13 and 36 of report from committee on judici ary, as amended in committee of the whole........................ 1412,1478 amendment of, to section 2 of report from committee on revenue, as amended in committee of the whole.1604 amendment of, to section 9 of report from committee on schedule....... 1796 amendment of, to section 8 of sched ule, as reported by committee on revision and adjustment........... 1860 amendment of, to substitute of Mr. Cummings to section 30 of report from committee on legislative de partment, as amended in committee of the whole....................... 953 amendment of, to substitute of Mr. Ross to section 4 of report from committee on railroad corporations.1644 amendment of, to substitute of Mr. Wagner to additional section of fered by Mr. Bayne to report from committee on education, as amend ed in committee of the whole...... 1753 amendment of, to substitute of Mr. Washburn to section 7 of majority report from committee on counties.1357 appointed member of committee on bill of rights....................... 75 appointed member of committee on judicial divisions of the state....... 1103 appointed member of judiciary com mittee.......... 75 appointed memb er of committee on legislature........................ 75 appointed member of committee on public accounts and expenditures.. 75 appointed member of committee on rules of convention 5......... 6 appointed member of committee to prepare address to the people of the state.........................1783 article in reference to eminent do main in regard to railroads, submit ted by......................... 262 leave of absence granted to................ 289 proposed amendment to constitution in reference to consideration of rail roads as public highways, submitted by..................,.. 132 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on counm tiesJ as amended in committee of the whole..............1516, INS5 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on edu cation, as amended in committee off the whole...................,.1748,1753 remarks of, in debate in convention on1 report from committee on exrec utive department, as amended in committee of the whole.............1372,1880 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on judi ciary, as amended in committee of the whole...... 1395,1414,1452,1458,1475 1-. 478,1499 CHURCH, L. S. —Continued. remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on legis lative department, as amended in committee of the whole....920,931,947 960,962,966,967 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on rail road corporations, as amended in committee of the whole......1709,1716 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on ieve hnue, as amended in committee of the whole....................1602,1605 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on right of suffrage, as amended in commit tee of the whole......1291,1295,1302 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on sched ule, as amended in committee of the whole.........................1820 remarks of, in debate on article in re ference to municipal subscriptions to capital stock of private corpora tions....................1236,1237,1238 ,remarks of, in debate on motion to refer to committee of the whole, substitute to portion of report from committees on canal and canal lands and on internal im provements............ 333,334 remarks of, in debate on motion to refer to committee on judiciary, resolution in reference to control of railroads, in respect to rates of transportation.................... 149 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on bill of rights........ 1567 1579,1580,1585 remarks of, in debate on report from committees on bill of rights and miscellaneous subjects, in reference to preamble........................ 277 remarks of, in debate on report from committees on canal and canal lands and on internal improve edmrnts....343,347,415,454,463,466,467,468 474,478 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on counties...1330,1356,1357 1365 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on education...........1733 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on executive depart men t....................... 749,761,789 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on finance..............1783 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on judiciary............ 996 1000, 1008, 1036, 10,42, 1057, 1062. 1071, 1083, 1084, 1090, 1096, 1136 1149, 1150, 1160, 1171, 1186, 1212, 1225 remarks of, on report from commit tee on judiciary in reference to emi jnent domain....................... 704 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on legislative depart ment.............................. 516 525, 527, 535, 536, 539, 550 appointed member of committee on 573, 602, 603, 606, 610, 639 Fxt ioiyrpr rmcm public accounts an expenditures.. 75643, 650, 673, 681, 724 mte nrasaditra ai appoined memer ofcommitee on remarks of, in debate on report from aininrfrnet prvt rules of convention. 56 committee on military affairs. 862 rod.5 appoined memer ofcommitee to remarks of, in debate on report from rmrso,o noneeto h prepre adres tothe eope ofthecommittee on mines and mineral daho o.CalsEmr state.1783 ~~~~~~~interests in reference to the protec- sn13 articlein refrence o eminnt do-tion of the lives of miners -.....272 rmrso,o aln prslto mainin rgar to ailrads subit- remarks of, in debate on report from i eeec ocnieaino e ted by.262 ~~~~~committee on miscellaneous corleave f absnce grnted o. 289 porations in reference to ware-potofcmite. 4 proposd amenment t conattutionhouses..............1626, 1627 reakofoncmuiainfo in rferece t conidertionof ril- remarks of, in debate on report fromSertrofSaeinrfrnet roadsas pblichighays,submttedcommittee on miscellaneous sub- sainr unse ocneto 11 by.1320 ~~~~~~~jects, in reference to homestead 11 remars of,in deate i convntionexemptions.0..........05, 906 rmrso,o lcino rsdn on reort fom cmmitte on oun- remarks of, in debate on report from potn.y ties, s amened incommitee ofcommittee on printing and binding rmrso,o lcin ofpresi''' the whole. 1516, ~~~ in reference to printing and bind- o~ovnin5 remarks of, ~~~~~~inneaei ovninlg convention debates.......104 reakofonpeetton'of'eport on report from committee on edu- ~~~110, 111, 113 frmcmiteorihofsf catin, a ameded n comitte of remarks of, on report from committee rg.5 the whole. 1748,1753 ~on printing and binding in refer-reakofonpooiinoMr remars of,in deate i convntionence to printing journal, laws, &c.. 245 Bonn,i eeec orira on report from committee on exec- ~247, 248, 249 an muiia inetdeso utive epartent, a amened in remark~s of, in debate on report from Qic,Il16 commitee f thewhol.13721380 committee on railroad corpora-reakofonuetoofpiiee16 remarksof, indebatein conentiontions...........1644, 1657 1 7, 4804 on rportfromcommtteeon jdi. remarks of, in debate on report from rmrso,o eotfo omt ciar, asamened i comitte ofcommittee on retrenchment and teo ulcacut n xed the wole.195,144,145,14581475 reform, in reference to conventionitrsinrfrnetfuueapo 1478,1499 and assembly expenses since 1862.. 228 pitosfrSaehue17 I 26 INDEX. CHURCI-1, L. S.-Continued. remarks of, in debate on report from committee on revenue............. 1200 1249, 1265,,1266, 1275, 1276, 1278, 1279 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on revision and adjust, ment on article on bill of rights.1776 1777 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on revision and adjust ment on article on legislative de partmedt.......................... 1780 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on roads and internal navigation................. 883, 884, 893 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on rules of convention. 59 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on schedule....... 1795, 1798 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on State, county and municipal indebtedness........ 214, 844 remarks of, in debate on resolution of Mr. Allen, of Crawford, authoriz iDg committee on legislative depart ment to employ clerk......... 114, 115 remarks of, in debate oil resolution of Mr. Anthony, in reference to State and national government.......... 99 remarks of, in debate on resolution of Mr. English, in reference to re cess of convention................. 829 remarks of, in debate on resolution of Mr. Turner, in reference to con vention printing................ 95, 96 remarks of, in debate on resolution of Mr. Wells, in reference to election of delegate to convention, in place of Ho. Wm. H. Patterson, deceas ed............................. 198, 203 remarks of, in debate on resolution in reference to oath of offlce.......... 7 14, 20, 40, 42, 44, 46 remarks of, in debate on resolution to adopt rule 49, in reference to effect of tabling amendments............ 183 remarks of, in debate on resolution to furnish members of convention with daily papers................. 181 remarks of, in debate 'on the!subject of convention printing............ 1180 remarks of, in debate on the subject of printing debates................ 90 remarks of, in debate on the subject of recesei of convention............ 867 remarks of, in reference to amend ment of section 8 of schedule, as reported by committee on revision and adjustment................... 1860 remarks of, in reference to,effect of motion to adjourn................ 1549 remarks of, in reference to election of supreme court judges........ 1799, 1807 resolution in reference to further amendments to constitution....... 1866 remarks of, in reference to order of business..................... 1061, 1199 remarks of, in reference to printing of debates................ 1030 remarks of, on amendi'o'iiir. Fox to, minority report from com mittee on roads and internal navi gation, in reference to private roads.... I......................... 258 remarks of, on announcement of the death of Hon. Charles Emmer son............................... 1335 remarks of, on calling up resolution in reference to consideration of re ports of committees.............. 745 remarks of, on communication from Secretary of State, in reference to stationery furnished to convention. 1816 1818 remarks of, on election of president pro ten&.......................... 11, 2 remarks of, on election of preside't of,convention..................... 50 remarks of, on presentation of report from committee on right of s-uf frage.............................. 158 remarks of, on proposition of Mr. Browning, in reference to railroad and MUDicipal indebtedness of Quincy, Ill........................ 1866 remarks of, on question of privilege, 167 47,480 remarks of, on report from commit tee on public accounts and expe.nd itures. in reference to future appro priati6na for State ho use....... 1773 INDEX. CHURCH, L. 5.-Coafinued. CHURCH, L. 8.-Confinued CITIE8-C~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~nfinued.~~~~ CHURCH, L. S.-Continued. resolution of instruction to judiciary committee, in reference to Illinois Central Railroad.................. 80 resolution of instruction to commit tee on revision and adjustment, in reference to article on railroad cor porations.........................1723 resolution of instruction to commit tee on revision and adjustment, in reference to article on railroad cor porations, called up and amended.1731 resolution to adopt rule 49, in refer ence to effect of tabling amend ments............................. 184 resolution to adopt rule 49, in refer ence to effect of tabling amlend ments, debate on............ 183 to 188 substitute of, to additional section offered by Mr. Sedgwick to report from committee on right of suf firage, as amended in committee of the whole......................... 1299 substitute of, to portion of report from committees on canal and canal lands and on internat im provei-ments.................- -i r 333 substitute of, to report from commit tee on roads and internal naviga tion............................... 883 substitute of, to sections 18, 19 and 22 of report from committee on jlodictry.......................... 1062 CHURCH, L. S.-Continued. remarks of, on report from commit tee on rules, in reference to adop tion of rule 49..................... 250 remarks of, on resolution in reference to consideration of reports of com mittees........................... 727 remarks of, on resolution in Mrefer ence to the State as defendant in courts of law or equity........... 175 remarks of, on resolution of Mr. Cameron, in reference to 15th amend ment.............................. 174 remarks of, on resolution of Mr. Cary, in reference to employing additional clerical force............ 71 remarks of, on resolution of Mr. Ca ry, in reference to engrossing clerk............................. 78 remarks of, on resolution of Mr. Co dy, in reference to committee room of judiciary committee...... 988 remarks of, on resolution of Mr. Turner, in reference to furnishing manuals to convention............ 137 -remarks of, on resolution of Mr. Wells, to purchase two hundred copies of manual................. 145 remarks of, on resolution of inquiry of Mr. Anthony to Alexander Sta,'ne, trustee, etc., and to Auditor of State, in reterence to lands be longing to Joel A. Matteson....... 385 remarks of, on resolution of instruc- tion to judiciary committee, in ref erence to control of railroads in re spect to rates of transportation.... 148 remarks of, on resolution of instruc tion to judiciary committee in ref erence to Illinois Central Railroad. 80 remarks of, on resolution of instruc tion of Mr. Wall to committee on penitentiary and reformatory insti tutions, in reference to state peni tentiary...........................1278 remarks of, on resolution of instruc tion of Mr. Wall -to committee on roads and internal navigation in reference to private roads.......... 136 remarks of, on submission of proposed amendment to constitution in refer ence to consideration of railways as public highways................... 1320 remarks of, on submission of report from committee on public accounts and expenditures, in reference to future appropriations for the state house............................. 1621 remarks of, on submission of statis tics in reference to cost of Illinois and Michigan Canal............... 366 remarks of, on the subject of printing prayers offered in convention...... 189 remarks of, on the subject of the ref erence of article 14th, concerning emigration of people of color, to a select committee.................. 82 report from committee on judiciary, in reference to eminent domain, submitted by..................... 703 -report from committee on public ac counts and expenditures, in refer- ence to future appropriations for state Louse, submitted by..........1621; report from committee on rules, in reference to the adoption of rule 49, submitted by................,4X0 resolution in reference to considera tion of reports of committees................. 727 resolution in reference to considera tion of reports of committees in convention.......................... 702 resolution in reference to considera tion of reports of committees called up and referred to committee on rules.............................. 14 resolution in reference to drains...26 resolution in reference to election of delegate to convention, in place of tIon. Wm. H. Patterson, deceased. 108 resolution in reference to morning sessions of convention.....................1232 resolution in reference to morning sessions of convention, called ulp..1233 r esolution in reference to oath of office............................. 7 resolution in reference to the state as defendant in courts of law or equity............................. 175' resolution of instruction to judiciary committee, in reference to control of railroads in respect to rates of transportation...............;, 148 X —8 CHURCH PROPERTY used for other than religious pur poses. resolution of instruction of Mr. Allen, of Crawford, to commit tee on revenue, in reference to taxa tion of M............................ 213 CIRCUITS judicial, resolution of instruction of Mr. Sharp, to committee on judicial circuits, to amend constitution in reference to...................... 212 CIRCUIT CLERK and recorder, resolution of instruc tion of Mr. Neece to committee on counties, in reference to.......... 84 CIRCUIT COURT clerks, communication in reference to action of, as recorders, in certain cases.............................. 289 of Will county, petition in reference to................................ 235 litigation, resolution of Mr. Bayne ini reference to..................... 134 CIRCUIT COURTS communication in reference to...... 627 resolution of Mr. Sharp authorizing clerks of, to act as recorders in cer tain cases.......................... 213 resolution of Mr. Wheaton in refer ence to............................ 72 resolution of inquiry of Mr. Atkins, to clerk of supreme court for 3d grand division of State of Illinois, in reference to reports of judges of, in relation to amendments to the laws............................. 98 CIRCUIT JUDGES communication in reference to cer tain reports of............ 365, 389, 653 communication from Auditor of State in reference to the salaries of, for certain services rendered......... 280 resolution of inquiry of Mr. Atkins to judge of supreme court, in refer ence to certain reports of.......... 323 resolution of inquiry ol Mr. Atkins to State Treasurer, in reference to salaries of, for certain services ren dered............................. 98 CODY, H. II.-(a Delegate from the Fifty eighth Representative District. Thos. B. Bryan re tu rned from thi is District.) amendment of, to section 17 of article on judiciary, as reported by com mittee on revision and adjustment.1813 amendment of, to lines 18 and 19 of section 33 of report from committee on legislative department......... 608 amendment of, to resolution of Mr. Haines, of Lake, in reference to re cess of convention................. 866 amendment of, to resolution of Mr. Haines, of Lake, in reference to sub mission of constitution............ 1596 amendment of, to sections 2 and 6 of report from committee on coun ties.......................... 1325, 1364 amendment of, to sections 5, 6 and 2 of report from committee on coun ties, as amended in committee of the whole.............. 1508, 1509. 1522 amendment of, to sections 4, 23 and 30 of report from committee on judi ciary...................1212, 1T00, 1170 CITY mayors, their powers and duties res olution of Mr. Anthony in reference t o................................. 154 taxes, communication in reference to assessment and collection of....... 3Q6 CITIES-a resolution of Mr. Anthony in refer ence to general and special laws of. 154 I I .27 CITIES-C,jntinued. and towns, resolution of instruc tion of Mr. Bryan to committee on miscellaneous subjects, in reference to corporate limits of.............. 211 and towns, corporate limits of, reso lution of instruction of Mr. Bryan to committee on miscellaneous sub jects, in reference to, reported back and referred to committee on muiai cipal corporations................. 858 CIVIL CASES jury -verdicts in, resolution of instruc tiola of Mr. Underwood to commit tee on bill of rights, in reference to................................. 859 CLEANING of hall during recess of convention, resolution of Mr. Bromwell in ref ere,-,ce to.......................... 1210 C',ERGY.MEN colored, resolution of Mr. Haines, of Lake, in i-efbrehee to................ 859 CLERICAL FORCE additional, resolution of Mr. Cary in reference to employing............ 70 CLERK resolution of Mr. Allen, of Crawford, authoriz!Dg committee on legisla tive department to employ........ 1-13 of board of supervisors Cook county, communication from' in reference to certain proceedings ofsaid board. 155 of supreme court for thid izrand divi sion of state of Illinois, resolution of inquiry to, of Mr. Atkins, in ref grence to reports of circuit judges in relation to amendments to the laws.............................. 98 CLERKS resolution of Mr. Aller), of Crawford, authorizing employment of, by com mittees............... 322 resolution of Si'r.'.'K'ir'k'p''a'trick in refer ence to employment of, by standing committees....................... 91 resolution of Mr. Wells in reference to the employment of, by committee fo ci printing and binding........... 533 0 rcuit courts, communication in reference to action of, as recorders, in certain cases.................... 289 of circuit courts, resolution of Mr. Sharp, authorizing to act as record e.rs, in certain ca,,es................ 213 CLOSING address by president................. 18'iO hall on Sunday, resolution of Mr. Ful ler in reference to................. 484 prayer of convention................ 1870 CODE communication lu reference to the subject of......................... 451 CODIFICATION — of laws, etc., amendment to constitu tion, in reference to............... 193 28 INDEX. CODY, H. H.-Continued. remarks of, in debate on report from committee on township organiza tion............................... 879 remarks of, in debate on resolution of Mr. Wells, in reference to elec tion of delegate to convention in place of Hon. Wm. H. Patterson, deceased.......................... 203 remarks of, in reference to election of supreme court judges..............1799 remarks of, in reference to report from committee on revision and adjust ment..............................1688 remarks of, on question of privi lege.................628, 629, 1323, 1502 remarks of, on report from com mittee on revision and adjust ment, in reference to section 1 of report from committee on suffrage, as amended in committee of the whole.............................1529 remarks of, on report firom committee on revision and adjustment, on ar ticle on legislature................17 89 remarks of, on report from committee on revision and adjustment, on ar ticles on suffrage, education, reve nue, counties, corporations, militia, canals and warehouses............ 1 834 remarks of, on resolution in reference to committee room of judiciary Goh tcommittee...................... 988 remarks of, on resolution in reference to compensation for enrolling con stitution..........................t1861 remarks of, on resolution in reference to furnishing additional newspapers to members of convention......... 134 remarks of, on resolution requesting appointment of additional members of committee on revision and ad justment.......................... 1324 remarks of, on submission of report from committee on revision and ad justment, on schedule.............t se s149 report from committee on revision and adjustment in reference to sec tion 1 of report from committee on suffrage, as amended in committee of the whole, submitted by........1529 report from committee on revision and adjustment on article on judi ciary, submitted by.................. 1810 report from committee on revision and adjustment on articles on pre amble, boundaries, bill of rights, legislature and executive, submit ted by.............................1776 report from committee on revision and adjustment on articles on suf frage, education, revenue, counties, corporations, militia, canals and warehouses, submitted by.........1834 report from committee on revision and adjustment on schedule, sub m witted by....................1849, 1850 resolution in reference to committee room of judiciary committee...... 988 resolution in reference to compensa tion for enrolling constitution.....1861 resolution in reference to furnishing additional newspapers to conven tion-............... -134 resolution in reference to titles and revision of laws. 116 resolution authorizing employment of clerk bv committee on revision and adjustment................1393 resolution requesting appointment of additional members of committee on revision and adjustment........1324 substitute of, to section 1 of report from committee on legislative de partment..................... 499, 500 appointment of..................... 93 bill from postmaster of Springfield, referred to...................... 1...1529 communication fr om Secretary o f State in reference to additional em ployes, referred to................ 1076 remarks on report from, in reference to expenses of convention....1209, 1210 1787 to 1789 report from, in reference to expenses of oonvention, submitted by Mr. Moore........... 1209, 1649, 1787, 1861 report from, in reference to expenses of convention, submitted by Mr. Moore............................178 7 report from, in reference to pay of janitors, submitted by Mr. Moore.. 653 report from, in reference to per diem of members and officers of conven tion, submitted by Mr. Springer... 997 report from, in reference to postmas ter of convention, submitted by Mr. Moore........................ 857 report from, in reference to settlement of printing and reporting accounts, submitted by Mr. Moore 18. report from, in reference to settlement of printing and reporting accounts, referred to committee on printing and binding.......................1860 report from, in reference to station. ery furnished convention, submit ted by Mr. Hay.............6.......186 report from, in reference to unneces sary employes of convention, sub mitted by M:. Moore.............. 1230 report from, in reference to unneces sary employes of convention, re marks of Mr. Parks in reference to adoption of....................... 231 resolution of Mr. Bayne in reference to pay of policemen of convention, referred to........................ 1202 resolution of Mr. Bromwell in refer ence to extra employes of conven tion, referred to................... 1012 resolution of Mr. Hay,. in reference to reference of report from, in regard to expenses of convenion.........1790 COLORED clergymen, resolution of Mr. Raines, of Lake, in reference to............ 8i9 people, resolution of instruction of Mr. Haines, of Lake, to committee on legislative department, in refer ence to immigration of... 1....... 677 people, resolution of instruction of Mr. Haines, of Lake, to committee on revision and adjustment, in reference to immigration of....... 1649 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on right of suffrage, as amended in commit tee of the whole............. 1282, 1285 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on schedule, as amended in commitiee of the whole......................1822 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on counties............ 325 1326, 1329, 1367 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on executive depart ment.............................. 788 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on judiciary...........109 1 1100, 1170, 1177 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on legislative depart ment....... 499, 573, 616, 629, 634, 731 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on revenue.............1262 1263, 1264, 1271 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on revision and adjust ment, on article on judiciary....... 1813 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on schedule...... 1793, 1802 remarks of, in debate on report from committee -on state, county and municipal indebtedness............ 222 r COMMEMORATION of the battle of New Orleans, resolu tion of Mr. Haines, of Lake, in.... 128 INDEX. 28 COMMERCE petition on the subj ect of.....,...... 745 CODY, ]EC. H.-Contirued. amendment o4 to sections 22 and 26 of report from committee on judi Clary, as amended in committee of the whole......................... 1467 amendment or, to sections 7, 10, 17,32 and 40 of report from committee on legislative department............. 731 729, 531,573, 630, 634 amendment of, to sections 16 and 40 of report from committee on legis lative department, as amended in committee of the whole........ 944, 966 amendment of, to sections 4 and 5 of report from committee on rev enue............... i - - - -.1264,1271 amendment of, to see ion i f. report from committee on revenue, as amended in committee of the whole........................ 1606, 1774 amendment of, to section 1 of report from committee on right of suf frage, as amended in committee of the whole......................... 1285 amendment of, to sections 4, 7, 14 and 29 of report from committee on schedule.......... 1794, 1795, 1805, 1808 amendment of, to substitute of Mr. Anthony to section 41 of report from committee on judiciary, as amended in committee of the whole 1487 amendment of, to substitute of Mr. Goodhue to section 8 of report from committee on counties, as amended in committee of the whole............................. 1522 appointed member of committee on canal and canal lands.............. 75 appointed member of committee on municipal corporations............ 75 appointed member of committee on revision and adjustment........... 75 appointed member of committee on township organization............: 75 petition on the subject of secret soci eties, submitted by................ 1634 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on coun ties, as amended in committee of the whole........ 1508. 1513, 1522, 1535 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on edu cation, as amended in committee of the whole................ 1746, 1747 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on judi ciary, as amended in committee of the whole.............. 1480,1487,1492 remarksof, indebate in convention on report from committee on leals lative department, as amended in committee of the whole............ 944 945, 966, 967 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on reve nue, as amended in committee of the whole........:.......... 1774, 1775 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on re vision aid adjustment,on schedule.1850 COMMISSIONER. of agriculture and statistics, resolu t!6'n of Mr. Haines, of Lake, to elect.............................. 212 COMMITTEE appointment of, to receive General Sheridari......................... 1416 appointment of, to select committee to prepare address to the people of the state................... 1732 of investigation, appolt,''e' of, in reference to communication from Secretary of State in regard to sta tionery furnished to convention...1828 of investigation, resolution of Mr. Parks to refer report from, on ac count of Secretary of State, to the Governor......................... 1865 remarks on the subject of the refer ence of preamble to............... 183 resolution of Mr. Allen, of Crawford, to appoint, to prepare rules of con vention........................... 51 resolution of Mr. Cameron - to ap point, to receive General Sheridan.1403 resolution of Mr. Haines, of Lake, to appoint,to ascertain appropriations of money by general assembly since 1862............................... 80 resolution of Mr. Sedgwick, to ap point, to prepare address to the people of the state................ 1708 to measure printed matter, etc., of convention, appointment of..1860,1865 to prepare address to the people of the state, appointment of commit tee to select...................... l't 6.2 to prepare address to the people [of the,state, appointment of......... 1783 to prepare, address to the people of the state, report from committee appointed to Felect, submitted by Mr. C. gs..1783 ummln.................. to prepare address to the people of the state, report from, submitted by Mr. Underwood................ 1863 ON AccoU'.gTS AND EXPFNDITURES OF THE CONVF,NTION INDEX. COMMITTEE-Confinued. COMMITTEE-Confinved. COMMITTEE-Confi-nued. COMMITTEE-Continved. report from, in reference to pream ble, referred to committee on re vision and adjustment............. 278 report from, in reference to the distri bution of the powers of the State government, submitted by Mr. Allen of Crawford................. 281 report from, referred to committee on revision and adjustment........1590 resolution of Mr. Bayne in reference to preamble, referred to...........1 rslto sumte. 154 resolution of Mr. Benjamin in refer ence to contracts, etc, referred t o.................................. 965 resolution of Mr. Benjamin to amend article second Eof the constitution, in reference to powers of State government, referred to........... 192 resolution of Mr. Buxton in reference to rights and-duties of individuals and associations, referred to....... 1277 resolution of Mr. Cumming s in refer ence to imprisonment for debt, re ferred to.......................... 334 resolution of Mr. Cumnmings in refer ence to monopolies, referred to.... 321 resolution of Mr. Cummings in refer ence to the right of the people in regard to the internal government of the State, referred to............ 281 resolution of Mr. iEldredge in reference to appropriation of private property for public use, referred to.......... 93 resolution of Mr. Fox in reference to bill of rights, referred to........... 192 resolution of Mr. Haines, of Lake, in reference to appropriation of pri vate property lor public use, etc. referred to.....................1.... t155s resolution of Mr. Haines, of Lake, in reference to eminent domain, re ferred to...................... M..... A 321 resolution of Mr. Perley in reference to religious liberty, referred to.... 179 resolution of Mr. Sedgwick in refer ence to the appropriation of private property, referred to.............. 429 resolution of Mr. Snyder in reference to right of suffrage, referred to.... 193 resolution of Mr. Underwood in refer ence to rights and privileges ofpeo ple, etc., referred to............... 100 resolution of Mr. Wait in reference to powers of state departments, refer red to............................. 98 resolution of Mr. Wall in reference to grand jury and indictments by, re iberred to.......................... 174 resolution of Mr. Wall in reference to sale of property for debt, referred to................................. 615 resolution of Mr. Wall to amend con stitution in reference to the non disqualification of witnesses on ac couat of religious belief, referred to............................... 176 resolution of Mr. Wheaton in refer ence to appropriation of private property for public use, referred t o............................8 eto. 88 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Atkins, in reference to drainage.... 481 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Atkins, in reference to drainage laws and private roads --------—.74 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Atkins, in reference to privileges of citizens in regard to food and drink. 260 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Goodell, in reference to preamble.. 262 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Underwood, in reference to jury verdicts in civil cases............ 858 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Vandeventer, in reference to right of prisoners' counsel in criminal trials............................. 321 COM MITTEE-C-ontinued. resolution of Mr. lIay to appoint.... 92 resolution of Mr. Kin_ in reference to appointment of janitor to senate chamber, referred to...............1234 resolution of Mr. King to refer ac counts of convention to............ 678 resolution of Mr. Skinner in refer ence to employment of secretaries during recess of convention, refer red to............................. 1190 resolution of Mr. Turner in refer ence to care of hall during recess of convention, referred to...90 resolution of Mr. Turner in reference to per diem of members and officers of convention, referred to.......... 987 resolution of Mr. Turner in reference toper diem of members and officers of convention, reported back from 998 resolution of Mr. Wagner in refer ence to printing dabates, referred to................................. 987 resolution of Mr. Wright in reference to ventilation of hall, referred to...1211 resolution of Mr. Wright in reference to the pay of janitors, referred to.. 627 resolution of inquiry of Mr. Wagner to Secretary of State in reference to committee rooms, referred to........ 282 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Anderson in reference to further publication of debates............. 1190 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Cameron in reference to postmaster of convention....................... 758 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Cross in reference to unnecessary employes of convention........... 1178 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Cummings in reference to station ery furnished to convention....... 1416 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Fuller, in reference to committee rooms............................ 260 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Hanna in reference to pay of chap lains.............................. 1029 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Parks in reference to cost of conven tion reporting and printing........1649 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Turner, in reference to per diem of members and officers of conven tion............................... 895 ON BANKS AND CURRENCY appointme nt of..................... 75 deba t e in convention on report from, as amended in committee of the whole....................1685 to 16$8 debate on report from........ 1678 to 1685 report from, referred to committee on revision and adjustment.......... 1688 report from, submitted by Mr. Tinch er......... 1553 resolution of instrucetion to, of Mr. Craig, to amend constitution in ref erence to bank legislation......... 211 ON BILL OF RIGHTS appointment o f... 75 article in reference to personal liber ty, referred to..................... 177 communication in reference to bill of rights, referred to................. 249 communication on the subject of drains, referred to................. 365 debate on report from....... 1558 to 1590 debate on report from, in reference to preamble...... 231 to 235, 264 to 276 memorialin reference to law'of li bel, etc., referred to............... 281 petition in reference to the acknowl edzement of the power of the Al mighty, referred to................ 1319 petition in reference to the observance of the Sabbath, referred to......... 745 petition in reference to the observ ance of the seventh day, referred to........................... 1103, 1477 petition on the subject of liberty, re ferred to.......................... 250 report from, submitted by Mr. Allen, of Alexander..................... 1440 report from in reference to preamble, submitted by Mr. Benjamin..... 20 9 appointment of..................... i75 communication in reference to Illi nois and Michigan canal, referred to........................ 1477 communication in reference to State aid to railroads and canals, referred to............................. o1477 debate in convention on report from, as amended in committee of the whole.................... 484 to 487 debate on report from.........310 to 479 29 COMMITTEE-Cont-inued. remarks on consideration of report from, in reference to certain modifi cations of article on canals........ 1745 -report from, submitted by Mr. Whea ton............................... 210 report from, in reference to certain modification of' article on canal, submitted by Mr. Whiting......... 1649 report from, referred to committee on revision and adjustment............ 487 resolution submitted by the Presi dent, in reference to the regulation and development of State railroads and canals, referred to............ 1476 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Goodhue, in reference to Illinois and Michigan canal............ 81, 83 ON CONGRESSIONA.L APPORTIONMIMNT appointment of...................... 75 ON COT-TNTIFS appointmedt of..................... 75 article in reference to county officers, referred to........................ 174 article on counties, referred to....... 151 communication and resolution in ref erence to formation of new coun ties, referred to.................... 197 communication from clerk of the, board of supervisors of Cook coun ty, in reference to certain proceed itig of said board, referred to..... 155 debate on report from.....1324 to l3(J7 debate in convention, on report from, as amended in committee of the whole.............. to 1557 majority report from, rlu mitted by Mr. Craig......................... 306 minjority report from, Submitted by Mr. Abbott...................:1.11, 307 petition in reference to the division of counties, ref*,,rred to.... 306, 389, 589 petition in reference to the division of Cook county, referred to...366, 851 petition in reference to the formation of a new county, referred to....... 451 petition in reference to the formation of new counties, referred to... 389, 726 757 petition in reference to the formation and division of counties, referred to................................. 451 petition on the subject of counties, referred to........................ 1324 protest in relation to the divirlon of counties, i-efe-red to.............. 280 report from, in reference to maps ir use of committee, submitted by Mr. Craig.............................. 211 repor from, referred to committee on revision and ad ustment........... 1557 resolution of Mr. Abbott in reference to formation of new counties, re. ferred to.......................... 93 resolution of Mr. Cameron in refer ence to the transfer of townships, referred to........................ 192 resolution of Mr. Craig in reference to members of county boards, re ferred to.....-. 155 resolution of Mr. -FIdredge in refer.............. ence to formation of new counties, referred to........................ 262 resolution of Mr. Ellis in reference to the removal of county seats, re ferred to........................ resolution of Mr. Haines, of Lake, in reference to the formation of coun ties, referred to.............. 180 resolution of Mr Haines, of in reference to removal of county seats, referred to.................. 155 resolution of Mr. Medill in reference to fees of county officers, referred to............................... 174 resolution of Air. Scholfield to amend constitution in reference to county seats, referred to.................. 174 resolution of Mr. Sherrill in reference to offlelal fees, and the eligibility of sherifls to re-election, reported back from committee on township .zation, and referred to...... 245 resolution of Mr. Snyder in reference to ele tion of public administrator, referred to........................ 1032 resolution of Mr. Snyder in reference to manner of election of master in chancery, referred to.............. 74.5 ON ADDRESS. appointment of...................... 1783 ,report from, submitted by Mr. Under. wood............................. 1863 O.W CANAL AND CA.N.&L LAllTDS 30~~~~~~~~~ [NE....................................... COMMITTEE-Continued. resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Bayne, in reference to election of county officers.................... 154 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Bayne, in reference to the removal of county seats.................... 154 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Cummings, in reference to counties and county seats.................. 178 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Neece, in reference to circuit clerk and recorder................. 84 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Ross, in reference to term of county officers............................ 193 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Springer, in reference to county seats.... 92 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Wagner, in reference to county boundaries........................ 179 COMMITTEE-Contin ued. resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Springer in reference to election of School Superintendent............ 758; resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Wagner to amend constitution in reference to school system of State. 179 COMMITTEE-Continued. report from, in the form of resolu - tions, submitted by Mr. Peirce....1764 resolution of Mr. Anthony in refer ence to state andsnational go,frn ment, referred to.................. 100 resolution of Mr. Archer in reference to the sovereignty of the people, referred to........................ 113 resolution of Mr. Ellis in reference to amendments to the national consti tution, referred to............. 90 resolution of Mr. Turner in reference to ratification of amendments to state and national constitutions, referred to........................ 262 resolution of Mr. Wells in reference to location of national capital, re ferred to................ 213 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Haines of Lake, in reference to rat ification of 15th amendment....... 165 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Moore, in reference to succession tax.............................. 92 ON ELECTORAL AND REPRESENTATIVE RE FORM appointment of...........5.......75 debate on report from.........1726 to 1730 memorial on the subject of minority to representation, referred to......... 679 sn petition in reference to minority rep resentation, referred to............ 703 report from, submitted by Mr. Me dill................................ 560. report from, referred to committee on revision and adjustment......... 1729 resolution of Mr. Eldredge in refer ence to election o f members of the house of representatives, &c., re ferred to........... 151 resolution of Mr. Robinson to amend constitution, in reference to eligi bility to office, of legal voters, re ferred to.......................... 2o2 resolution of Mr. Wait in reference to elections and bribery at elections, referred to....................... 98 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Benjamin, in reference to majority and minority representation....... 175 ON EXECUTIVE-c appointment of...................... 75 debate on report from..........745 to 826 debate in convention on report from, as amended in committee of the whole..................... 1369 to 1388 report from, submitted by Mr. An thony............................. W89 report from, in reference to oath of office, submitted by Mr. Anthony.. 851 report from, referred to committee on revision and adjustment........1387 resolution of Mr. Anthony, in refer ence to establishment of bureau of agriculture, etc., referred to........ 153 resolution of Mr. Archer in reference to passage of bills over veto, taken up and referred to................. 88 resolution of Mr. Haines, of Lake, to elect commissioner of agriculture and statistics, referred to.......... 212 resolution of Mr. Poage in reference to the publication of legislative ex penses, referred to................. 260 resolution of Mr. Rice in reference to executive expenses, referred to.... 76 resolution of Mr. Ross in reference to pardoning power of Governor, re ferred to... 151 rre t.......:..................15 resolutionof Mr. Sedgwick to amend constitution in reference to pardon ing power of Governor, referred to. 193 resolution of Mr. Snyder in reference to the vesting of pardoning power referred to.................... 151, 260 resolution of Mr. Wagner in refer ence to pardoning power of Gov ernor, referred to................ 194 resolution of Mr. Wells to establish a bureau of statistics, referred to.. 213 resolution of Mr. Wright to amend constitution in reference to term of Governor, referred to.............. 194 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Archer, in reference to pardoning power of Governor................ 98 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Ross, in reference to term of state officers............................ 193 ON FEDERAL RELATIONS-' appointment of...................... 75' communication in reference to lo ca- tion of national capital, referred to.......................179, 280 debate on report from.......1764 to 1771 majority report from, submitted by Mr. Peirce...................... 1152' majority report from, remarks of Mr. Peirce on submission of............1153 memorial in reference to location of national capital, referred to....... 21t minority report from, submitted by Mr. Wendling................. 1155' preamble and resolution of Mr. Ellis in reference to location of national capital, referred to................ 76 ON FUTURE AMENDMENTS appointment of..................... 75 debate on report from....... 1309 to 1318 debate in convention on report from' as amended in committee of the whole..................... 1591 to 1595 majority report from, submitted by Mr. Archer........................ 391 minority report from, submitted by Mr. Brown..................... 424 minority report from, submitted by Mr. Haines of Lake............... 391 report from, referred to committee on revision and adjustment........ 1595 resolution of Mr. Bryan in reference to future constitutional conven tions, referred to.................. 135 resolution of Mr. Bryan in reference to the manner of submission of amended constitution to the peo ple, referred to.................... 135 resolution of Mr. Underwood in ref. erence to the sovereign power of convention, referred t o............ 213 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Fuller, in reference to mode of amending constitution............ 139 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Springer, in reference to form of oath of office of' members of future conventions....................... 193 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Underwood in reference to future conventions....................... 78 report from, submitted by Mr. Parks............................. 13S9 report from, referred to committee on revision and adjustment......... 1761 resolution of Mr. Allen of Alexander in reference to establishment of State University, referred t o...... 116 resolution of Mr. Anthony in refer ence to common schools, referred to................................ 965 resolution of Mr. Bowman in refer ence to the encouragement of learning, referred to............... 211 resolut.on of Mr. Buxton in reference to control of school funds,'refer red to............................. 127 resolution of Mr. Goodell in refer ence to buncombe, referred to..... 758 resolution of Mr. Merriam in refer ence to the maintenance of a State university, referred to............. 193 resolution of Mr. Parker to amend constitution in reference to free schools, referred to................ 212 resolution of Mr. Rice to prohibit school officers from publishing school books, &c., referred to....... 193 resolution of Mr. Snyder in reference to corporal punishment in schools, referred to........................ 1078 resolution of Mr. Springer in reference to free schools, referred to......... 176 resolution of Mr. Underwood in refer ence to educational appropriations and donations, referred to......... 138 resolution of Mr. Underwood in refer ence to protection in public wor ship, referred to................... 138 resolution of Mr. Wagner in refer ence to common schools, referred to................................. 261 resolution of inquiry of Mr. Moore, to Superintendent of Public Instruc tion in reference to school statis tics, referred to.................... 193 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Haines, of Lake, in reference to public school fund,..,............. 9$1 f INDEX. 30 O-N EDUC-&TION appointment of..................... 75 al ticle in reference to the establish ment of State University, referred to............................ 194 comiuunication in reference to cer tain amendm. ents to constitution, referred to................ I........ 262 communication in reference to the establishment of public libraries, referred to. 451 communication' er-ce to State University, referred to............. 236 communication in reference to the use of Bible in common schools, referred to... 745 comnaunication ;o,''ili., o'n' f'b're'n'','e of the M. E. Church, on the sub ject of sectarian approplations, re ferred to.......................... 118 debate o'n report from....... 1732 to 1745 debate in convention on report from, as amended in committee of the whole..................... 1745 to 1761 memorial in reference to proposed State University, referred to....... 250 petition in reference to use of Bible in comn.,on schools, referred to.... 251 344, 389, 479 510, 560, 613 629, 679, 702, 1030, 1103, 1129 ON FINANCE appointment of...................... 75 debate on report from............... 1771 1772, 1783 to 1787 report from, submitted by Mr. Ross.......................... 1771, 1776 report from, referred to committee on revision and adjustment........ 1787 resolution of Mr. Englisti instructing secretary of convention to deliver certain letters received from coun ty clerks, in reference to railroads, referred to........................ 260 resolution of Mr. Washburn in refer ence to application of 7 per cent. tax of Ill,7,aois Ceiatral R. R., refer red to............................. 194 resolution of Mr. Washburn in refer ence to general taxation for local benefit, referred to................ 194 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Cummings, in reference to the abolishment of State Board of Equalization...................... 615 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Cummings, in reference to exemp t,ion. taxation........... 192 resolution of instruction to, o Dement,in reference to taxing lands Of Illinois Central R. R............ 11(5 ON INTIFRNAL IMPROV.EMICNTS appointment OL..................... 75 debate on report from.......... 310 to 479 debate in convention on report from, as amended in committee of the who'le........................ 4.84 to 487 report from, submitted by Mr. Whi ting.............................. 256 report from, referred to ommittee on re-vision and adjus*aent........ 487 INDEX. 31 COMMITTEE-Continue d. resolution of Mr. Hart in reference to power of supreme court, referred to................................. 321 resolution of Mr. McDowell in refer ence to 15th amendment, referred to............................ 175 resolution of Mr. Medill in reference to compensation of judges, referred to................................. 174 resolution of Mr. Medill in reference to opinions of supreme court judg es, referred to..................174 resolution of Mr. Parker in r,:ference to future revision of constitution, referred to........................ 176 resolution of Mr. Rice in reference to fees of county officers, referred to. 116 resolution of Mr. Scholfield in refer ence to passage of local or special laws in certain cases, referred to... 127 resolution of Mr. Scholfield in refer ence to rights of private corpora tions, taken up and referred to.... 88 resolution of Mr. Sharp authorizing clerks of circuit courts to act as re corders in certain cases, rejerred to 213 resolution of Mr. Snyder in reference to manner of election of mabter in chancery, referred to............ 92, 100 resolution of Mr. Turner in reference to justices of supreme court, refer red to............................. 98 resolution of Mr. Vandeventer in ref ence to testimony of criminals, re ferred to.......................... 72 resolution of Mr. Wendling in refer ence to amendment of pleadings, etc., referred to.................... 261 resolution of Mr. Wright in reference to place of holding supreme court, referred to........................ 100 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Abbott in reference to jurors and verdicts in criminal trials.......... 615 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Abbott, in reference to rules of cv-, pdetce........................... 858 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Archer, in reference to rules of ev idence.,............................ 78 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Bayne, in reference to abolishment of grand jury..................... 176 resolution of intruction to, of Mr. Billings, in reference to the estab lishment of local courts........... 78 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Bromwell, in reference to eminent domain in regard to railroads.... 487 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Bromwell, in reference to uniform ity of laws throughout the State.. 116 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Church, in reference to control of railroads in respect to rates of transportation.................... 148 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Church, in reference to Illinois Cen tral railroad....................... so resolution of instruction to, of Mr. domai, sumitte by r. Chrch 703 Craig, in reference to chancery bus-ofCafr.9 report from, rferred to comiteon ess.............................93 rpr rm saedd umte revisio and ajustmet. 1500 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. b r le fCafr - 9 reso~ion o Mr. ndersn in efer-Cross, in reference to the abolish-reotfo,rfretocmiteo ence t furthr conideraton ofment of grand juries..............262 reiinadajsmn. 7 report from.'.1087 ~resolution of instruction to, of Mr.reouinoMrAle,oCrwod resoltionof M. Anhonyin rfer-Cross, in reference to prosecut-'uhrzn oepo lr. 1 once to ake andDearbor parksng attorneys.....................211 rslto fM.Atoyi eeec referred to.154 ~~~resolution of instruction to, of Mr. t eoa fofcr,rfre o 5 resoltidnof Mr Arcer inrefeenceCummings, in reference to railroad rslto fM.Byei eeec to couty corts ad ther jursdic-tariffs............................192 todvre,rfreto9 tion,takenup ad refrred o. 88 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. rslto fM.Byni eeec resoltionof Mr Atkns inrefeenceEldredge, in reference to railroadtoeeto an copnaino to eminent domain, re~ferred t....85 fae.......................... 84 saeofcr,rfre o8 resoltionof M. Browellin rfer- resolution of instruction to, of Mr. rslto fM.Cr nrfrnet once ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~~~~F trihofapa,rfreto-7 ldredge, in reference to revision scainaporain,rfre resoluion o Mr. romwel in efer-of State laws.....................194 to8 enceto slares o stae oficils, resolution of instruction to, of Mr.reouinoMrChrhireeec referred to.282 fl~~aines, of Lake, in reference tototesaeadeednincut resoutio ofMr. rownng n reer-considering railroads as common o a re1iy eerdt. 7 once t divores, reerred o. 128 carriers, etc 18 *rsltoofM. Coyi.efrnet resoluton of M. Caryto postone reolution of inst'ructi~on to,' of' Mr. tilsadreiino4aw,rfre furter onsieraion f sctio 39Hankins, in reference to taxing t.1 of report from.1180 ~~lands of Illinois Central railroad inreouinoMrHansoLaei resoltion f Mr Codyin rferene tocertain cases.....................116 reeectocutrersnain committee room of. 988 resolution of instruction to, of Mr.reerdt.1 resoluion o Mr. ldrede in efer-Hidrup, in reference to the estab-rsouinoMrHansoLaei ence t eminet domin, reerredlishment of congressional districts. 192 reeectopsaeoloaan to.713 ~~~~~~~resolution of instruction to, of Mr.geealasreerdt - 1 resoltionof Mr Haies, o Lak, inKing, in reference to presumptions rslto fM.Hnyi eeec refeenceto fficsi trmsand ees,' -of law or fact in State or corpora- t tt,cut n onapo referred to.84 ~~~~~tion proceedings..212 praton.ndcrdi,.efere.t..... 212 COMMITTEE-C o ntinuoed. resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Kiing, in reference to supreme court.............................. 212 resolution of instruction of Mr. Moore, to committee on federal re lations, in reference to succession tax, referred to.................... 92 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Pillsbury, to amend constitution in reference to court of common pleas, etc................................ 150 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Sharp, in reference to mechanics' liens............................. 193 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Sharp, to amend constitution in reference to sheriffs................ 367 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Underwood, in reference to future amendments to constitution....... 94 resolution'of instruction to, of Mr. Whiting, in reference to prevention of bribery in connection with pub lic affairs.......................... 93 ON JUDICIARY amendment to constitution, in refer ence to codification of laws, &c., referred to......,................ 193 appointment o f...................... 75 article in reference to eminent do main in regard to railroads, referred to................................. 262 article on judiciary department, re ferred to..... - - 178 communication in reference to cer tain reports of circuit judges, refer red to............................. 365 communication in reference to cir cuit courts, referred to............ 627 communication in reference to the ju dicial system of Cook county, re ferred to.......................... 481 communication in reference to par doning power and divorce, referred to................................ 167 communication in reference to sepa rate submission of judiciary article, referred to........................1129 communication in reference to the subject of a code, referred to....... 451 debate on report from........ 914 to 1228 debate in convention on report from, as amended in committee of the whole.................... 1393 to 1501 ordinance relating to privileges of members of convention, referred to 93 petition in reference to circuit court of Will county, referred to......... 235 petition in reference to Cook county judiciary, referred to.............. 965 petition in reference to the courts of Cook county, referred to........... 1040 petition in reference to jurisdiction of justices of the peace, referred to. 344 petition in reference to landlords, etc., referred to.................... 726 petition in reference to Masonic in scriptions on public buildings, re ferred to.......................... 320 petition in reference to proposed changes in judiciary system, refer red to............................. 320 petition in reference to supreme court reporter, referred to........... 250, 894 proposed amendments to constitu tion, relative to Cook county judi ciary, referred to.................. 96 proposed amendments to constitu tion, relating to fees, etc., referred to............................... 97 remonstrance in reference to pro posed system of Cook county judi ciary, referred to................... 1012 report from, submitted by Mr. Skin ner............................... 852 report from, in reference to eminent domain, submitted by Mr. Church. 703 report from, referred to committee on revision and adjustment........... 1500 resolution of Mr. Anderson in refer ence to further consideration of report from...................... 1087 resolution of Mr. Anthony in refer ence to Lake and Dearborn parks referred to...................... 154 resolution of Mr. Archer in reference to county courts and their jurisdic tion, takien up and referred to............... 88 resolution of Mr. Atkins in reference to eminent domain, referred to.... 858 resolution of Mr. Bromwe11 in refer ence to right of appeal, referred to. 76 resolution of Mr. Bromwell in refer ence to salaries of state officials, referred to........................ 282 resolution of Mr. Browning in refer ence to divorces, referred to................ 12)8 resolution of Mr. Cary to postpone further consideration of section 39 of report from.......................1180 resolution of Mr. Cody in reference to committee room of.................... 988 resolution of Mr. Eldredge in refer ence to eminent domain, referred to.............................. 713 resolution of Mr. Haines, of Lake, ill reference to official terms and fees, referred to......................... 84 I —9 -' INDEX. 31 COMMITTEE-Continued. resolution of Mr. Haines, of Lake, in reference to the release of Illinois Central Railroad from certain obli gationr., referred to................ 84 resolution of Mr. Whit!D — in refer ence to Illinois and Michigan Canal, referred to........................ 100 ON JUDICIAL CIRCUITS appointment of....................... 75 commnication in reference to the ac tion of clerks of circuit courts as recorders in certain cases, referred to................................. 289 resolution of Mr. Bayne, in reference to circuit court litigation, referred to................................. 134 resolution of Mr. Wheaton in refer ence to circuit courts, taken up and referred to......................... 89 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Buxton, in reference to judicial di vision of State..... 1277 resolution of instruci i'O' "i' Vr, Sharp to amend constitution, in reference to judicial circuits....... 212, ON J-UDICIIAL DivIsIONS OF TIE[IM STATE appointment of..................... 1103 report from, submitted by Mr. Me. dill................................ 1209 0-w LIEGISLITURLR amendment to constitution in refer ence to oath of office of members of General Assembly, referred to.. 139 appointment of......'t'o''p'a'r'- 75 communication in r doning power and divorces, referred to.................... 167 n "'::......... debate o report from........ 490 to 743 debate in convention on report from, as amended in committee of the whole............. 917 to 972 petition in ree,'r'e'n'' the evils c,:f adulteration, referred to.. 306, petition in reference to the iiL'a'tio' of a home legislature, referred to... 156 report from, submitted by Mr. Allen of Crawford....... 291 .......... itted report from, as mended, s by Mr. Allen of Crawford.......... 393 report from, referred to committee on revision and adjustment........... 972 resolution of Mr. Allen, -of Crawford, authorizing to employ clerk....... 113 resolution of Mr. Anthony in reference to removal of officers, eferred to 154 resolution of Mr. Bayne in referen; to divorces, referred to............. 91 resolution of Mr. Bryan in reference to election and compensation of state officers, referred to........... 83 resolution of Mr. Cary in reference to sectarian appropria " referred to................................. 8.5 resolution of Mr. Church in reference to the state as defendant in courts of law or equity, referred to....... 175 resolution of Mr. Cody in reference to titles and revision of laws, referred to................................. 116 resolution of Mr. Haines of Lake in reference to county representation, referred to........................ 116 resolution of Mr. Haines of Lake in reference to passage of local and general laws, referred to........... 116 resolution of Mr. Henry in reference to state, county and town appro priation and credit, referred to 180 82 — INDEX COMMITTEE-Continued. resolution of instruction to, of Mrs. Underwood, in reference to com pensation of members of legislature and future conventions............ 78 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Vandeventer, in reference to pun ishment for murder................ 282 COM.NHITTEE-C-Gntinued. resolution of Mr. Pillsbury in reference to sale of intoxicating liquor, refer *red to....................... 151 resolution of Mr. Scholfield to amend constitution in reference to extra compensation of public officers, re ferred to.......................... 154 resolution of Mr. Sedgwick in refer ence to ineligibility of office holders to general assembly and future con ventions, referred to................ 76 resolution of Mr. Snyder, in reference to legislative assembly, referred to. 100 resolution of Mr. Snyder in. reference to legislative assembly, reported back from........................ 141 resolution of Mr. Springer in refer ence to compensation of members of General Assembly, referred to... 128 resolution of Mr. Tinther in reference to State indebtedness, referred to.. 93 resolution of Mr. Truesdale in refer ence to the issuing of stock by rail road corporations, referred to...... 213 resolution of Mr. Underwood in ref erence to increase of official fees during term of office, referred to... 138 resolution of Mr. Underwood in ref erence to official fees, referred to... 179 resolution of Mr. Vandeventer in ref erence to ineligibility to future office of public officers guilty of embezzlement and defalcation, re ferred to.......................... 116 resolution of Mr. Wagner in reference to divorces, referred. to............ 282 resolution of Mr. Wagner, in refer ence to the passage of bills over veto, referred to................... 213 resolution of Mr. Wait to amend con stitution in reference to limitation of entail, referred to............... 194 resolution of Mr. Wells in reference to bribery in general assembly, re ferred to.......................... 1477 resolution of Mr. Wells to establish bureau of statistics, referred to.... 257 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Allen, of Crawford, in reference to county representation............. 82 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Anderson, in reference to future creation of offices by the legisla ture............................... 191 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Archer, in reference to publication of laws........................... 88 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Archer, to amend constitution in reference to the property of mar ried women....................... 177 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Atkins, in reference to amalgama tion................................ 211 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Atkins, in reference to salaries of state officials....................... 260 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Bromwell, in reference to imposi tion by railroad and other corpora tions............................... 84 -resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Bromwell, in reference to quorums 172 resolution of instruction to, of Ml. Cross, in reference to general assembly............................ 2.11 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Ellis, in reference to sessions of general assembly and compensation qof members........................... 83 :resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Fuller, mn reference to number of members of general assembly.................. 83 .resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Haines, of Lake, in reference to immigration of colored people....1677 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Harwood, in reference to state .senators, representatives and cens sus................................,1.... 78 ~resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Peirce, in reference to general and special laws...........,*.... 98 ~esolution of instruction to, of Mr. Peirce, in reference to special legis lati~on................... 212 resolution of instruction tot of'Mr. Mice, in reference to special and private acts of' inc~orporatiun.................. 172 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Stpringer, in reference to p'roperty exempted from taxation as*................... 180 COMMIT TEE-Continued. report from, submitted by Mr. McCoy 333 report from.. in; reference to ware houses, submitted by Mr. Cary.....1155 report from, referred to committee on revision and adjustment.............1703 report firom, in reference to ware houses, referred to committee on revision and adjustment...........1701 resolution of Mr. Eldre dge in reference to street railroads, referred to...... 151 resolution of Mr. McCoy in reference to time of consideration of report from.......... 345 resolution of Mr. Scholfield i'n refer ence to passage of general and spe cial laws by general assembly, re ferred to....,..................... 1,I resolution of Mr. Whiting in reference to considering railroads as public corporations, Deferred to........... 148 ON LEGISLATIVE APPORTIONMENT- I appointment of...................... 75 resolution of Mr. Peirce in reference to the ratio of representation, re ferred to.........................., 91 ON MANUFACTURES AND AGRICULTURE amendment to constitution on the subject of planting trees on high ways, referred to................. 83 appointment of.....................75 communication in reference to plant inrg trees on highways, referred to. 236 communication from state agricultu. ral society in reference to the estab lishment of a state bureau of sta tistics, referred to................. 129 memorial in reference to damages committed by animals, referred to. 873 petition in reference to fencing lands, referred to........................1062 resolution of Bayne in reference to granting of franchises in certain cases, referred to.................. 654 resolution of Mr. Church in reference to drains, referred to.............. 262 resolution of Mr. Sedgwick in refer ence to exemption of inanufactur ing companies from taxation, refer red to............................. 100 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Rlaines, of Lake, in reference to re striction of landed estate..........1104 ON MIILITARY AFFAIRS appointment of..................... 75 debate on report from.........860 to 866 majority report from, submitted by Mr. Cameroil...................... 293 minority report from, submitted by Mr. Anderson...................... 307 report from, referred to committee on revision and adjustment........ 866 resolution of Mr. Parker in reference to State militia, referred to........ 176 resolultion of instruction to, of Mr. Wait, in reference to establishment of a military school............... 194 ON oMINES AND MINERAL INTERESTS- appointment of..................... 93 communication in reference to the LaSalle mines, referred to......... 306 communication on the subject of mines and mining referred to..... 210 debate on report from, in reference to the protection of the lives of mi ners......................... 264 to 276 report from, in reference to the pro tection of the lives of miners, sub mitted by Mr. Snyder.............. 210 resolution of Mr. Cameron to ap po in t............................ 81, 85 resolution of Mr. Turner in reference to limitation of debate on report from, in reference to the protec tion of the lives of miners......... 2 74 ON MISCtELLANEOUS CORPORTIONlS amendment to constitution, in.refer ence to rights of stockholders, re ferred to.......................... 139 appointment of..................... 5 communication in reference to rail road tariffs in certain cases, referred t o................................. 679 debate on report from....... 1664 to 1669 debate on report from, in reference to warehouses............... 1622 to 1637 debate in convention on report from, as amended in committee of the whole............................ 1702 debate in convention on report from, in reference to warehouses, as amen ded in committee of the whole...19 pepe... 16f93 to 1701 petition in reference to county and township lines, referred to......... 679 petition in reference to railroad and warehouse frauds, referred to...... 627 rsul ofnrcotoM 654, 679, 702, 757 petition in reference to warehouse frauds, etc., referred to....589, 736, 782 petition in reference to sale of in toxicating liquors, referred to..344, 451 petition in reference to sectarian pref erences, referred t o................ 798 petition on the subject of commerce, referred t o........................ 745 petition on the subject of secret soci eties, referred to................... 1634 remarks of Mr. Underwood, in refer ence to report from, on the subject of the observance of the Sabbath.. 798 remarks on report from, in reference to preparation of address to the people of the State.......... 1731, 1732 report from, in reference to home teads, submitted by Mr. Underwood 281 report from, in reference to home stead exemption, referred to com mittee on revision and adjustment.1692 report from, in reference to intoxica ting liquors, submitted by Mr. Un derwood......................... 1031 INDEX. 32 ON MISCELLANEO'US SUBTIMO-TS appointment of...................... 75 communication in reference to ferry across the Mississippi - river at St. Louis, referred to.......... 389 communication in reference to the protection of laborers, etc., referred to.................................. 300 communication in reference to the sale of intoxicating liquors, referred to..................................... 320 communication in reference to short measure of fruits, re-ferred to...... 23,6 communication in reference to short measure of fruits, reported back from.............................. 851 communication in reference to the use of English laneuage by. physi cians and lawyers. re-ferred to..... conimunication'in r'eferene- c to use Wf English language bv lawyers and physicians, reported back krom.... 857 communication on the subject.of the constitution of Itlinos, referred to. lit ......................... debate on report from, in reference to homestead exemption's...'....895 to 912 debate on report fm', in reference to preamble.......... 231 to 2.3-5, 264. to 2(6 debate in convention on report from, in reference to homestead exemp tions, as amended in committee of the whole.................. 1689 to 1692 ptition in reference to extraordinary judicial oaths, referred to....:11.1.1012 petition in reference to masonic in scriptions on public buildii3L,,s, re ferred to...................... 10, 365 petition in reference to m.%sonic in scriptions on public buildings, etc., re.e,alled from committee on judicia ry (page 320) and referred to.: I I 1. I 1 365 petition in reference to masonic in scriptiods on public' buildings, re ported back from.............. 257, 858 petition in reference to the observ ance of the Sabbath, referred to.... 389 51'. 479, 510, 560, 613, 679 702, 703 petition in reference to'the oserv ance of the Sabbath, reported back from.............................. 791 petition in reference to preamble, re- 9 ferred to.......................... 4-i petition in reference to railroad and warehouse fraudc-, referred to...... 560 590, 757 JN1)]X. 33 COMMITTEE-Continued.. resolution of Mr.- Anthony in refer- ence to street railroads, referred to..; 5 to.................... Trne............. resolution of Mr. Anthony in refer ence to subscriptions to stock by counties, towns, etc., referred to.. 154 resolution of Mre. Anthony in refer ence to the tenure and salary of officers, etc., referred to............ 211 resolution ofMr. Buxton in reference to the levying of taxes, referred to 127 resolution of Mr. Haines, of Lake, in reference to the incorporation of towns, referred to................ 155 resolution of Mr. Sedgwick in refer oence to the passage of local or spe cial laws in certain cases, referred to................ 76 resolution of Mr. Underwood in ref erence to the increase of official fees during term of office, referred t o........................ 138 resolution of- Mr. Wagner in refer ence to town and county appropri ations, etc., referred to............ 179 resolution of instruction of Mr. Bryan to committee onmiscellaneous sub jects, in reference to the corporate limits of towns and cities, reported back and referred to............... 858 COMMITTEE- Continued. report from, in reference to cost of convention printing, submitted by Mr. Turner....................... 654 report from, in reference to furnish ing man uials to convention, submit ted by Mr. Medill................. 145 report from, in reference to furnish ing newspapers to members of con vention, submitted by Mr. Tlirn er..................e............ 129 report from, in reference to furnishing state map to convention, submitted by Mr. Turner.......... 280 report from, in reference to indcx to debates, etc., submitted by Mr. Turner........ I........186 5 report from, in reference to printing constitution and address, etc., sub mitted by Mr. Cameron........... 1790 report from, in reference to printing and binding convention debates, submitted by Mr. Cameron........ 101 report fiom, in reference to printing and binding convention debates, submitted by Mr. Medill.......... 118 report from, in reference to printing journal, laws, etc., submitted by Mr. Turner........................ 245 report fieon, in reference to publica tion of constitution, submitted by Mr. Turner........O........ 1704 report from, in referenc6 to settle ment o)f printing and reporting accounts, submitted by Mr. Tur ner...............................18 60 report-from, in reference to transcrip tion of journals of convention, sub mitted by Mr. Medill.............1865 report from committee on accounts and expenditures of convention, in reference to settlement of print iDg and reporting accounts, refer red to............................ 1860G resolution of Mr. Anthony in refer ence to convention journal, refer red to.............................1845 resolution of Mr. Cross in reference to furnishing State maps to conven tion, referred to................... 26 resolution of Mr. Hay in reference to publication and distribution of pro ceedings of convention, referred to............................... 65 resolution of Mr. Hay to adopt re port from......................... 124 resolution of Mr. King in reference to proposals for convention print ing, referred to.................... 67 resolution of Mr. King in reference to publication of constitution and address, referred to................1845 resolution of Mr. Sedgwick in refer ence to the publication of laws in county newspapers, referred to.... 212 resolution of Mr. Vandeventer in ref erence to binding journal of con vention, referred to............... 176 resolution of Mr. Wells in reference to the employment of clerk by..... 533 resolution of Mr. Wells in reference to printing debates, referred to................ 987 resolution df instruction to, of M~r. Ca:sry, in reference to mnanuals.................... 137 resolution of instrucetioni to, of Mr. Cum~mings, in reference to cost of convention printing........................532 resolution of instruction to of Mr. Haines, of Lake, in reference to furnishing State maps to conven tion...............................1 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Rice, in reference to the establish ment of a State printing office..,...74 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Wall, in reference to cost of print ing new constitution............................. 704 resolution of instruction to, of M~r. Wendling, in reference to printing debates in German...............................21 ON PINITINTIARY AND RIFORMATORY IN STITUTIONS appointment of...................... 75 article in reference to management of prisions, referred to............... 153 communication in reference to the sale of the products of peniten tiary labor, referred to............ 451 communication from the stone cut ters' association of Rock Island, in reference to convict labor, referred to................................. 118 resolution of Mr. Wagner in reference to management of prisons, referred to............................. 321 resolution of Mr. Wall in reference to the management of state peniten tiary, referred to.................. 679 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Browning in reference to mechanic al labor in state penitentiary..9..... 192 resolution of instruc tion to, of Mr. Eldredge in reference to the estab lishment of local penitentiaries.... 177 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Wall in reference to state peniten tiary..............27 r.................1277 ON PRINTING AND BINDING- appointment of..................... 75 debate on report from, in reference to constitution and address, &c...1846 to 1848 debate on report from, in reference to correction of speeches............. 168 debate on report from, in reference to furnishing manuals to convention. 145 146 debate on-report from, in reference to furnishing newspapers to conven tion.......................... 129 to 134 debate on report from, in reference to printing and binding convention debates........... 101 to 113, 118 to 125 debate on report from, in reference to printing journal, laws, &c...245 to 256 memorial in reference to publication of laws, &c., referred to........... 281 petition in reference to State Report er, referred to..................... 389 remarks on report from, in reference to index to debates, &c............1865 remarks on report from, in reference to printing constitution and ad dress, &c........................... 1790 remarks on report from, in reference to publication of constitution.....1704 to 1706 report from, in reference to compen sation of official stenographers of convention, submitted by Mr. Me dill................................ 293 report from, in reference to constitu tion and address, &c., submitted by Mr. Cameron......................1846 report fromn, in reference to correction of speeches submitted by Mr. Me diill............................... 167 appointment of..................... 75 article in reference to munici pal cor porations, referred t o.............. 212 communication in reference to boards of supervisors, etc., referred to.... 281 communication in reference to side walks, referred to................. 306 debate on report from........1669 to 1676 debate on report from, as amended in committee of the whole.... 1723 to 1725 majority report from, submitted by Mr. Browning..................... 390 minority report from, submitted by Mr. Haines, of Cook.............. 390 petition in reference to holding over cf terms of office by certain officers, referred to........................ 451 petition in reference to prohibitory liquor laws, referred to............ 1621 proposed amendment to constitution relating to fees, etc., referred to.. 97 remarks in reference to report from.. 1677 report from, referred to committee on revision and adjustment........ 1725 resolution of Mr. Abbott in reference to extension of corporate limits, re ferred to.... 679 resolution of Mr. Anthony in refer ence to city mayors and their pow ers and duties, referred to.......... 154 ,resolution of Mr. Anithony in refer ence to election of town and city officerss, etc., referred to........... 154 resolution of Mr. Anthony in refer ence to general and special laws of cities, referred to................_ 154 INDEX. 33 COMMITTEE-Continued. report from, in reference to'prpamble, refer'r d to committee on revision and adjustment..................... 278 report fi-om, in reference to prepara tion of addre",t io'the people of the state, submitted by Mr: Underwood.1731 report from, on petition in reference to state.co nstitution, s-pbipitted by ,Mr.- Underwoo'd.................... 191 report from, on Ipreamble to constitu tion, submitted by Mr. Underwood. 191 resolution.of Mr. English in reference to'p'repuxlition of address to the people o:rihe state, referred to.... 1704 resolution of iM'r. F'ller'in reference to, the use of intoxicating liquor by state officials, referred to,.......... 192 resolution, of Mi. Sodgwick to appoint committee to prepare address to the people of the state, refe re to. 170 resolution of Mr. Bptinger n reference to homesteads ref6rred to........ 92 resolution of Mr'. Springer to amend constitution in reference to punish ment for duelilig, referred to....... 1502 resolution of Mr. Wa.gner,ju reference to warehouse frauds, r.eferred to.... 758 resolution ofinr.,truction to, of Mr. Bayne,, in reference to widowr, and orphani;........................... 510 resolution of Inttruction to, of Mr. Bryan, in reference to corporate limits of towns,: and. cities........... 211 resolution of instruction, to, of Mr. Bryan, in reference to corporate lim its of towns and cities, reported back from and referred to commit tee on municipal corporations..... 858 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Hay, in reference to bribery on the part of public officers........;..... 182 resolIution of instruction to, of Mr. Hay, in reference to bribery on the part of public officers, reported back from............. 857 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Pillsbury, in reference to the in vestment of funds of insurance companies.... i................... 193 resolution of instruction. to, of Mr. Pillsbury, in reference to, invest iaent of funds of insurance,,'compa nies reported back from.,...... 257 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Turner, in reference to engrossing clerk.......................... r.esolution- of instruction to, oi'ifi. 78 Vandeventer, in reference to rail road and warehouse frauds........ 532 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Wheaton, in reference to the con struction of the word "office"..... 782 ON MUNICIP.&L CORPOR&TIONS ON PUBLic ACCOUNTS AND EXPE.LNDITURES appointment of...................... 75 article in reference to future appro - priations for State house, referred to................................. 1320 remarks on report from, in reference to future appropriations for state house............... 1621,1622.1772,,1773 report fi-om, in reference to future appropriations for state house, sub mitted by Mr. Church............. 1621 34~~~~~~~~~~~~w IDX COMMITTEE-Continvied. report from, submitted by Mr. Hay.. 321 report from, as amended, submitted by Mr. Hay..................1012 report from, referred to committeeh1 on revision and adjustment........1775 resolution of Mr. Anthony, in refer ence to general and special taxes, referred to........................ 154 resolution of Mr. Atkins in reference to "two mill tax," referred........ 175 resolution of Mr. Buxton in reference to uniform assessment of taxes, re ferred to.......................... 127 resolution of Mr. Haines, of Lake, in reference to sale and redemption of lands, referred to.................. 192 resolution of Mr. Hildrup to amend constitution in reference to Illinois Central 7 per cent. tax, referred to. 193 resolution of Mr. Parker in reference to the abatement of taxes on real estate, referred to................. 726 resolution of Mr. Sedgwick in refer ence to state credit, referred to.... 76 resolution of Mr. Sedgwick to amend constitution in reference to assess ment of taxes for sidewalk pur poses, etc., referred to............. 212 resolution of Mr. Snyder in reference to county collector and sheriff, re ferred to........................ 93 resolution of Mr.Wagner in reference to proportionate taxation, referred pato......................194 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Allen, of Crawford, in reference to taxation of church property used for other than religious purposes.. 213 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Allen. of Crawford, to amend con stitution in reference to taxation of telegraph stock &c............. 263 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Coolbaugh in reference to exemp tion from taxation................ 211 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Cross, in reference to the exemp tion of certain lands from taxation. 481 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Ellis in reference to tax titles...... 260 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Parker in reference to abolishment of State Board of Equalization..... 212 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Sharp in reference to Illinois Cen tral railroad....................... 193 COMMITTEE-Continued. report from, on articles on suffrage education, revenue, co unti es, cor porations, militia, canals and ware houses, submitted by Mr. Cody....1834 report from committee on banks and currency, referred t o.............. 1688 report from committee on bill of rights, referred to................. 1590 report from committee on bill of rights in reference to preamble, re ferred to.................. 278 report from committees on canal and canal lands and on internal im provements, referred to............ 487 report from committee on counties, referred to.........................1557 report from committee on education, referred to........................ 1761 report from committee on electoral and representative reform, referred to............................. -..1729 report from committee on executive, referred to........................ 1387 report from committee on finance, referred to........................ 1787 report from committee on future amendments, referred to........... 1595 report from committee on judiciary, referred to........................ 1500 report from committee on legisla, tive department, referred to....... 972 report from committee on military af fairs, referred to.................... 866 report from committee on miscellane ous corporations, referred to...... 1702 report from committee on miscella. neous corporations in reference to warehouses, referred to............ 1701 report from committee on miscella neous subjects in reference to home stead exemption, referred to....... 1692 report from committee on miscella neous subjects in reference to pre amble, referred to................. 278 report from committee on municipal corporations, referred to.......... 1725 report from committee on public ac counts and expenditures in refer ence to future appropriations for state house, referred to............ 1774 report from committee on railroad.... corporations, referred to.......... 1722 report from committee on revenue, referred to........................ 1775 report from committee on right of suffrage, referred to............... 1309 report from committee on roads and internal navigation, referred to.... 894 report from committee on schedule, referred to.................... 1832 report from committee on state, county and municipal indebted ness, referred to.................. 1 260 report from committee on township organization, referred to.......... 882 report from, on schedule, submitted by Mr. Cody.........,.1849,1850 resolution of Mr. Cody, authorizing employment of clerk by.......... 1393 resolution of Mr. Cody, requesting appointment of additional mem bers ot...............1324 resolution of Mr. Haines, of Lake, in reference to the statute laws of Illinois, referred to....................... 912 resolution of Mr. McDowell in refer ence to consideration of report from................................... 1662 resolution of Mr. Vandeventer, of thanks to................... 1869 resolution of Mr. Wait in reference to wordingf of amendments to consti tution, referred to..............,,....... 98 resolution of M~r. Wall in reference to employment of enrlolling clerks by,..........,.........1845 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Church, in reference to article on railroad corporations...l.123 resolution of instruction to, of' Mr. Goodhue, in reference tofemale suffrage...................17 resolution of' instruction' tio, ot'fiMr17 Goodhue, ill reference to section 6 of article on right of suffrage..............166% resolution of instruction to, of'Mr. Goodhue, in reference to section 6 of article on right of suffrage, called up and debated on,....................1725,lq26 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Haines, of Lake, in reference to ir migration of colored people................i1649 ON RETRENCHMENT AND ReEFORM appointment of.................... 75 debate on report from, in reference to convention and assembly expen ses since 1862..... 226 to 230, 237 to 245 report from, in reference to conven tion and assembly expenses since 1862, submitted by Mr. Wait......'. 226 resolution of Mr. Eldredge in refer ence to the fees of county clerks in certain cases, referred to........... 262 resolution of Mr. Haines, of Lake, in reference to per diem of members of convention during recess, refer red to............................. 345 resolution of Mr. Haines, of Lake, in reference to salaries of public offi cers, referred to................... 100 resolution of Mr. Wendling to attend charity ball, referred to............ 176 resolution of instruction of Mr. Ellis to Secretary of State in reference to articles furnished to members of convention, referred to............ 260 appointment of..................... 75 article on boundaries, referred to.... 279 debate on report from, on article on judiciary...................1810 to 1813 debate on report from, on articles on preamble, boundaries, bill of rights, distribution of powers, legislatived and executive.............. 1776 to 1783 debate on report from, on articles on suffrage, education, revenue, coun ties, corporations, militia, canals and warehouses........... 1834 to 1840 proposition in reference tD adoption of constitution, referred to.......1833 proposition in reference to railroad and municinal indebtedness of Quincy, Ill., referred to............ 1763 remarks in reference to report from..1688 1689 ON REVENUE appointment of...................... 75 communication in reference to the as sessment and collection of city taxes, referred to.................. 306 communication in reference to coun ty auditor, referred to............ 236 communication in reference to taxa tion, referred t o............... 365, 479 communication from Alex. Starne, trustee, etc., in reference to the sale of lands belonging to Joel A. Matteson, referred to............. 510 communication from Auditor of State, in reference to sale of lands belonging to Joel A. Matteson, re ferred t o.......................... 510 communication on the subject of revenue, referred to............... 627 debate on report from....... 1196 to 1202 1242 to 1280 debate in convention on report from, as amended in committee of the whole.........1597 to 161, 1774 to 1776 remarks on report from, in reference to section 1 of report from commit tee on suffrage, as amended in committee of the whole.....Wali r 1529 1530 remarks on report from, on article on legislature................... 1789 remarks of Mr. Cody on report from, on articles on suffrage, education, revenue, counties, corporations, militia, canals and warehouses.... 1834 to 1840 report from, in reference to section 1 of report from committee on suf frage, as amended in committee of the whole, submitted by Mr. Cody.1529 report from on article on judiciary, submitted by Mr. Cody.............1810 e report from, on articles on pream ble, boundaries, bill of rights, distribution of powers, legislature and executive, submitted by Mr. Cody l...... Cd........................1776 po I I INDEX. 34 COMMITTEE-Continued. report from, in reference to future appropriations for state ho-use,.re ferred to committee on revision and adjustment................. 1774 resolution of Mr. Wright in reference to official fees, referred to.......... 367 ON RAILP.OAD CORPOR,&TIONS appointment of..................... 75, communication in reference to the condemnation of land,for railroad purposes, referred to.... 389 debate on report from" to' 1664 debate in convention on report from, as amended in committee of the whole.....'.... to 1723 petition in reference to location of railroad offices, referred to... 344, 365 45i,,i5lo, 589 petition in reerence to railroads, re ferred to......................... 627 report from, submitted by Mr. ux ton................................ 480 report from, referred to committee on revision and adjustment........... 1722 resolution of Mr. ADthony, in refer ence to location of offices of rail road corporations in this stbte, re ferred to........................... 150 resolution of Mr. Bryan in reference to considering railroad corporations as individuals, referred to... 150 resolution of Mr. Ha.ins, of o'L'k', prohibiting railroad consolidation, referred to........................ 212 resolution,of Mr. Hart in reference to capital stock of railroads, referred to...... 321 Tesoii-io'n''oi'r'.'k'l'D'g':In'';Elegance to the movable property of railroads etc., referred to..... 172 resolution of Mr. g'oie'fd'i'n"refer' ence, to rights of private corpora tions, referred to.................. 67 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Atkins, to amend o stitution' '3 n U reference to obligations of Illinois Central Railroad.................. 176 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Un'd rwood, in reference to Illinois Central railroad................... 78 ON RimvisioN &ND ADJUSTMIMNT INDEX. COMMITTEE-Continued. communication on the subject of prie vate ways, referred to............. 117 debate on report from.........883 to 894 majority report from, in reference to private roads, submitted by Mr. Perley.......................27.... 27 minority report from, in reference to private roads, submitted by Mr. Sedgwick.....................7.... r7 petition in reference to highways, re ferred to.......................... 627 remarks of Mr. Church on amend mrient of Mr. Fox to minority report from, in reference to private roads. 258 report from, referred to committee on revision and adiustment........... 894 resolution of Mr. iEldredge in reference to public highways, referred to....16 toaomet 176 resolution of Mr. El dredge in refer ence to public highways, reported back from......................... 257 resolution of Mr. Hankins in refer ence to compensation for private property appropriated to public - use, referred to....................... 192 resolution of Mr. fankins in refer ence to private property appropria ted for public use, reported back from............................. 257 resolution of Mr. McCoy to amend constitution in reference to eminent domain, referred to..............1.....180 resolution of Mr. McCoy to amend constitution in reference to eminent domain, reported back from......2. 257 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Wall in reference to private roads. 135 COMMITTEE-Continued. debate in convention on report from, as amended in committee of the whole.................... 1819 to 1832 Mr. Cross excused from serving on..1827 proposition in reference to removal of county seats, referred to....... 1723 report from, submitted by Mr. Me dill................................. 1791 report from, referred to committee on revision and adjustment........ 1832 resolution of Mr. Haines, of Lake, in reference to adjournment, sawe die, of convention, referred to.... 1649 resolution of Mr. Haines, of Lake, in reference to submission of con stitution, referred to.............. 1596 resolution of Mr. Parks, in reference to ajournment, sine die, of conven tion, referred to...................1677 resolution of Mr. Wagner in reference to adjournment, sine die, of conven tion, referred to................... 1596 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Fox, in reference to manner of sub mission of new constitution....... 192 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Washburn, in reference to separate submission of articles of constitu tion...............,...vv.* ——.*1796 Ox RIGHT OF SUFFRAGE — appointm ent of..................... 75 co mmu nication in reference to female suffrage, referred to (2)............ 129 communication in refer ence to right of suffrage of foreigners, referred to................................ 679 debate on report from.......... 1280,1281 debate in convention on report from, as amended in committee of the whole..................... 1281 to 1309 majority report from, submitted by Mr. Dement................... 157, 855 memorial in reference to female suf frage, referred to.................. 679 minority report from, submitted by Mr. Haines of Lake...........,. 57, 856 minority report from, submitted by Mr. McDowell..................... 856 petition against female suffrage, re ferred to (two)..................... 1477 petition in reference to female suf frage, referred to................... 451 479, 487, 510, 560, 613, 1077, 1842 petition in reference to right of suf frage, referred to.................. 479 petition in reference to rights of women, referred t o................ 826 petition in reference to suffrage, re ferred to.......................... 531 remonstrance against female suffrage, referred to........................1840 report from committee on revision and adjustment, in reference to sec tion 1 of report from, as amended in committee of the whole, submit ted by Mr. Cody...................1529 report from, referred to committee on revision and adjustment...........1309 resolution of Mr. Bayne in reference to right of suffrage, referred to..... 100 resolution of Mr. Cameron in refer ence to present system of number ing ballots, referred t o.......... 98 resolution of Mr. English in reference to female and negro suffrage, re ferred to.......................... 212 resolution of Mr. Haines, of Lake, in reference to right of suffrage, re, ferred to..... I.127 resolution of Mr. Hay to postpone special order in reference to consid eration of report from............. 560 resolution of Mr. Sedgwick in refer ence to right of suffrage, referred to................................. 736 resolution of Mr. Washburn in rcfer ence to right of soldiers to vote, re ferred to..................... 100 resolution of Mr. Wright in reference to suffrage, referred to............. 86 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Cummings, in reference to female suffrage........................... 532 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Cummings, in reference to submis-'oi -. sion of female suffrage proposition. 532 ON RULES appointment of....................t 9m. 56 debate on report from........................59, 60 remarks on report from, in reference to the adoption of rule 50, limiting speeches......................... 490 remarks on report from, on the sub ject of amending the rules of con vention........................... 123 4 report from, submitted by Mr. Cool baugh............................. 58 report from, in reference to adoption of rule 49, submitted by Mr. Church......................... 250 report from, in reference to the adop tion of rule 50, limiting speeches, submitted by Mr. Bromwell........ 490 report from, in reference to amend ment of rule 44, submitted by Mr. Allen, of Crawford................ 191 r report from, on the subject of amend ing the rules of convention, sub mitted by Mr. Ross................1233 reso lution of Mr. Church in reference to consideration of reports of com mittees, called up and referred t o...........................745...... 745 resolution of Mr. Church to adopt rule 49, in reference to the effect of tabling amendments, referred to... 188 resolution of Mr. Eldredge in regard to reference of amendments, etc., to constitution to committees, re ferred to.......................... 176 resolution of Mr. King to amend rule 44, with regard to order of busir ness, called up and referred to..... 173 resolution of Mr. McDowell in refer ence to consideration of report from committee on revision and adjustment, referred to........... 1662 resolution of Mr. Sharp to adopt rule 50, limiting speeches. referred to................................ 260 resolution of Mr. Snyder in reference to sessions of convention, referred to................................. 260 resolution of Mr. Wells in reference to adoption of amendments to con stitution, referred to............... 1156 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Ross, in reference to the facilita tion of business.................... 1233 ON STATE, COUNTY ANED MUNICIPAL IN DEBTEDNBSS appointment of..................... 75 debate on report from.......... 214 to 222 284 to 305, 833 to 851 debate in convention on report fiom, as amended in committee of the whole...................... 1256 to 1260 remarks of Mr. McCoy, in reference to further consideration of report from.............................. 1209 remarks on motion of Mr. McCoy to print report from.............. 189, 190 report from, submitted by Mr. Mc Coy.na 189 report from, referred to committee on revision and adjustment........... 1260 resolution of Mr. Coolbaugh in refer ence to limitation of State indebt edness, referred t o............... 150 resolution of Mr. McCoy in reference to further consideration of report of 261 273 resolution of Mr. McCoy to print ad ditional copies of report from...... 482 ,resolution of Mr. Moore in reference to fees of county officers, referred to 177 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Merriam, in reference to compensa tion of county officers............. 177 ON TOWNSHIP ORGANIZATION appointment of..................... 75 comnmunication in reference to rail road crossings, referred to......... 141 com-munication in reference to road tax, referred to.................... 590 communication on the subject of township organization, referred to. 117 debate on report from......... 873 to 882 majority report from, submitted by Mr. Peirce......................... 293 minority report from, submitted by Mr. Haines, of Lake............... 293 petition in reference to township or ganization, referred to........45 1, 1528 report from, in reference to planting trees on highways, submitted by Mr. Peirce......................... 161 report from, referred to committee on revision and adjustment.......... 882 uON SCHEDULEM appointment of...................... 75 article in reference to municipal sub scription to capital stock of private corporations, referred to..........1730 communication in reference to man ner of submission of new constitu tion, referred to.............eo f e...... 280 debate on report from....... 1791 to 1810 01O ROA&DSND INTER-NA.L N IGATIOlI — appointment of...................... 75 communication, in reference to roads, referred to....................... 77 I-10 INDEX. COMMITTEE-Continued. resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Hay, in reference to article on canal and canal lands................... 1833 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Hay, in reference to election of su preme and additional circuit court judges............................ 1800 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Medill, in reference to election of supreme court judges............. 1678 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Neece, in reference to section 11 of judiciary article................... 1763 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Peirce, in reference to proposition of Mr. Browning in regard to rail road and municipal indebtedness of Quincy, Illinois................... 1814 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Sedgwick, in reference to compar ing enrolled constitution.......... 1859 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Wall, in reference to election of masters in chancery............... 1789 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Whiting, in reference to article on warehouses....................... 1707 ON STATE INSTITTJTIO-N'S A'\'D PUBLIC BUILDINGS appointment of..................... i 5 communication from Stone Cutters' Association, of Chicago, in ref-er. once to convict labor, referred to.. 141 resolution of Mr. Bryan in reference to support of public institutions by the State, referred to.............. 260 resolution of Mr, Sr-yder in reference to the employment of convict la bor on State works, referred to.... 213 resolution of Mr. Snyder in reference to removal of State capital, ref(,r red to....... l'';rl'on"t'o', of''M''r'. resolution of in Peirce,in reference to appointment of board of public charities....... 84 33~ INE.................... COMMITTEE-Continued. debate in convention on report from committee on legislative depart ment, as amended in.........917 to 972 debate in convention on report from committee on miscellaneous corpo rations, as amended in.............1702 debate in convention on report from committee on miscellaneous corpo rations, in reference to warehouses, as amended in..............1693 to 1701 debate in convention on report from committee on miscellaneous sub jects, in reference to homestead ex emption, as amended in....1689 to 1692 debate in convention on report from committee on municipal corpora tions, as amended in......1723 to 1725 debate in convention on report from committee on railroad corporations, as amended in.............1703 to 1723 debate in convention on report from c ommittee on revenue, as amended i n........1597 to 1621 1774 to 1776 debate in convention on report from committee on right of suffrage, as amended in................1281 to 1309 debate in convention on report from committee on schedule, as amended in.........................1819 to 1832 debate in convention on report from committee on state, county and municipal indebtedness, as amended in.........................1256 to 1260 memorial in reference to Cook county judiciary, referred to.............. 1077 proposed amendments to judiciary ar ticle, referred to................... 1130 resolution of Mr.Wheaton in reference to abolishment of.................. 1367 resolution of Mr. Wheaton in reference to limitation of debate in.......... 613 resolution of Mr.Pillsbury in reference to the consideration of reports of committees in..................... 490 COMMON SCHOOLS-. communication in reference to use of bible in........................... 745 petition in reference to use of bible in................................. 251 34* 389, 479, 510, 560, 613, 629, 67V, 702, 1030, 1103, 1129 resolution of Mr. Anthony in refer ence to............................ 965 resolution of Mr. Wagner in reference to................................ 261 COMMUNICATION from Alexander Starne, trustee, &c., in reference to the sale o f lan ds b e longing to Joel A. Matteson..... 510 from Auditor of Public Accounts, in reference to expenses of State peni tentiary since 1867, submitted by the presidents............ 261 from Auditor of Public Accounts, in reference to railroads, &c., submit ted by president................. 1526 from Auditor of Public Accounts, in reference to railroads, &c., remarks on........................... 1526, 1527 from Auditor of State, in reference to appropriations by general assem bly, submitted by the president... 365 from Auditor of State, in reference to assessed value of property in the State for the past four years, sub mitted by the president........... 137 from Auditor of State, in reference to Auditor's warrants issued in favor of Superintendent of Public In struction, submitted by the presi dent............................. 1759 from Auditor of State, on cost of printing and binding, submitted by the president...................... 128 from Auditor of State, in reference to the cost of registration for the years 1868-'69, submitted by the presi dent............................. 280 from Auditor of State, in reference to earnings of Illinois Central Rail road, submitted by the president.. 101 from Auditor of State, in reference to expenses of 25th and 26th general assemblies, submitted by the presi dent............................ 305 from Audi tor of State in reference to Illinois and Michigan canal, submit ted by the president............... 487 from Auditor of State in reference to salaries of circuit judges for certain services rendered, submitted by the president.......................... 280 * from Auditor of State in reference to the sale of lands belonging to Joel A. Matteson, submitted by the president.......................... 510 from Auditor of State in reference to his services and fees, submitted by the president...................... 196 from Auditor of State in reference to state and other indebtedness to public schools, submitted by the president.......................... 155 from Auditor of State in reference to township organization, submitted by the president................... 1075 from clerk of board of supervisors of Cook county, in reference to cer tain proceedings of said board, sub mitted by the president........... 155 from Governor of State in reference to number of penitentiary convicts pardoned during the past 10 years, submitted by the president........ 343 from Governor of State in reference to veto messages, submitted by the president........,..~............... 166 ~from Governor of Virginia, submitted by the president............,..,.,.1759 from Illinois Conference of the M. E. Church, on the subject of sectarian appropriations, submitted by Mr. Benjamin............, 118 COMMITTEES resolution of Mr. Allen, of Crawford, in reference to manner of printing reports from.................. 251 resolution of Mr. Allen, of Crawford, authorizing employment of clerks by................................ 322 resolution of Mr. Church, in refer ence to consideration of reports of................................. 727 resolution of Mr. Church in reference to consideration of reports of, called up and referred to commit teeon rules........................ 745 resolution of Mr. Church in reference to consideration of reports of, in convention........................ 702 resolution of Mr. Eldredge wlth re gard to reference of amendments, etc., to constitution, to........173, 176 standing resolution of Mr. Peirce, in reference to reports of............ 258 resolution of Mr. Pillsbury in refer ence to consideration of reports of in committee of the whole........ 490 COMMITTEE REPORTS remarks on the subject of the distri- bu-ation of.......................... 308 resolution of Mr. English in reference to distribution of.................. 308 resolution of Mr. Vandeventer, in ref erence to form of.................. 146 OF THE WicOLE debate in, on article in reference to municipal subscription to capital stock of private corporations 1234to1242 debate in, on report from committee on banks and currency.....1678 to 1685 debate in, on reports from comrmit tees on bill of rights and miscella neous subjects, in reference to pre amble............ 231 to 235, 276 to 278 debate in, on report from committees on canal and canal lands and on in ternal improvements........ 310 to 479 debate in, on report from committee on counties................ 1324 to 1367 debate in, on report from committee on education............... 1732 to 1745 debate in, on report from committee on executive department.... 745 to 826 debate in, on report from committee on future amendments.... 1309 to 1318 debate in, on report from committee on judiciary................. 974 to 1228 debate in, on report fr'om committee on legislative department...490 to 743 debate in, on report from committee on military affairs............ 860 to 866 debate in, on report from committee on mines and mineral interests, in reference to the protection of the lives of miners............... 264 to 273 debate in, on report from committee on miscellaneous corporations....1664 to 1669 debate in, on report from committee on miscellaneous corporations, in reference to warehouses.... 1622 to 1637 debate in, on report from committee on miscellaneous subjects, in refer ence to homestead exemptions.... 895 to 912 debate in, on report from committee on municipal corporations.1669 to 1676 debate in, on report from committee on railroad corporations...16;37 to 1664 debate in, on report from committee on revenue....1196 to 1202, 1242 to 1280 debate in, on report from committee on roads and internal navigation.. 883 to 894 debate in, on report from committee on right of suffrage.......... 1280, 1281 debate in, on report from committee on schedule................ 1791 to 1810 debate in, on report from committee on state, county and municipal in debtedness.......... 214 to 222, 28i to $05, 833 to 851 debate in, on report from committee on township organization.... 873 to 882 debate in convention, on article in reference to municipal subscription to capital stock of private corpora tions, as amended in.............. 1730 debate in convention, on report from committee on banks and currency, as amended in............. 1685 to 1688 debate in convention, on report from committees on canal and canal lands and on internal improve ments, as amended in............ 484 to 487 debate in convention, on report from committee on counties, as amend ed in......................1502 to 1t557 debate in convention on report from committee on education, as amend ed in.................... 1745 to 1761 dlebate in convention on report from commnittee onl executive, as amend ed in.................... 1369 to 1388 debate in convention on report fromn committee on future amendments, as amended in............... 1591 to 1595 debate in convention onreport from committee on judiciary, as amended Xn.....*.-..-.-..*..*..e.e*....., *.*. 1393 to I150 COMMITTEE ROOMS communication from Secretary of State in reference to.............. 451 of judiciary committee, resolution of Mr. Cody in reference to......... 988 resolution of Mr. Cross in reference to cost of.......................... 510 resolution of Mr. Tincher in reference to................................. 81 resolution of Mr. Wagner in reference to................................. 488 resolution of inquiry, of Mr. Cum mings, to Secretary of State, in ref erence to.......................... 451 resolution of instruction, of Mr. Ful ler, to commrittee on accounts and as aexpenditures in reference to..... 260 resolution of instruction of Mr. Wagner, to Secretary of State, in reference to...................2.... 28 '31. i INDEX. Go,'d MITTEE-Continued. resolution of Mr. Peirce in reference to names and meetings of town ships, referred to.................. 182 resolution of Mr. Sherrill in reference to official fees %ud eligibility of i3heriffs to re-election, referred to... 83 resolution of Mr. Sherrill in reference to official fees and eligibility of isheriffr, to re-election, reported back from, and referred to commit tee on counties.................... 245 resolution of instruction to,,,of Mr. Wheaton in reference to boards of supervisors........................ 155, COMMON CARRIERS resolution of instruction of Mr. Haines, of Lake, to committee on judiciary, i;i reference to consider!Dg railroads as.................... if,148 COMMUNICATIF)NS and petitions, remarks in reference to record of.......................... 344 r~~~~ImX 87_ COMMUNICATION-Continued. in reference to female suffrage, sub mitted by the President........... 129 in reference to female suffrage, sub mitted by Mr. Rice.............1. te,eeet.. 156 in reference to the formation of new 6 counties, submitted by Mr. Hay... 197 in reference to Illinois and Michigan canal, submitted by Mr. Wells....1477 in reference to the judicial system of Cook county, submitted by Mr. An thony............................. 481 in reference to justices of the p eace submitted by Mr. Anthony........ 223 in reference to the La Salle miners, submitted by Mr. Eldredge........ 306 in reference to location of national capital, submitted by Mr. McCoy.. 179 in reference to manner of submission of new constitution, submitted by Mr. Fox........ r................... 280 in reference to planting trees on high ways, etc., submitted by Mr. Pierce, 236 in reference to pardoning power and divorce, submitted by Mr. Brown ing................................ 167 in reference to the protection of la borers, etc., submitted by Mr. Springer.......................... 306 in reference to the publication of laws etc., submitted by Mr. Snyder...... etbihe 289 in reference to railroad crossings, etc.' submitted by Mr. Haines, of Lake. 141 in reference to railroad tariffs in cer tain cases, submitted by Mr. Cross. 679 in reference to the right of suffrage of foreigners, submitted by Mr. Mer riam......... 679 in reference tu roads, submitted by Mr. Wells......................... 177 in reference to road tax, submitted by Mr. Benjamin..................... 589 in reference to the sale of intoxicat ing liquors, submitted by Mr. Mer riam......................... 320 in reference to the sale of products of enitentiary labor, submitted by Wir. Goodhue.................... 451 in reference to separate submission of judiciary article, submitted by Mr. Benjamin......................1129 in reference to short measure of fruits, submitted by Mr. Haines, of Cook........................236 in reference to short measure of fruits, reported back from commit tee on miscellaneous subjects...... 857 in reference to sidewalks, submitted by Mr. Peirce...................... 306, in reference to State aid to railroads and canals, submitted by Mr. Haines of Cook....................1476 in reference to State University, sub mitted by Mr. Wells................. 236 in reference to taxation, submitted by Mr. Haines, of Cook............ j.. 365 in reference to taxation, submitted by Mr. Wal l.....................479 in reference to use of Bible in com mon schools, submitted by Mr. Bryan.. 745 in reference to the use of English language by physicians and law yers, submitted by Mr. Sedgwick.. 280 ,in reference to use of English lan guage by physicians and lawyers, reported back from committee onc miscellaneous subjects.......... 857 in reference to use of hall of repre- v sentatives for lecture, submitted by Mr. Goodell................798 on the subject of the constitution of Illinois, submitted by Mr. Turner. 118 on the subject of drains, submitted by Mr. Perley.................365 on the subject of mines and miningu submitted by Mr. Whiting.....*... 210 onthe~ subject of private ways, sub mitted by Mr. Allen, of Crawford. 117 on the subject of revenue, submitted by Mr. Skinner.... 67, on the subject of township organiza tion, submitted by Mr. Skinner.... 117 i COMMUNICATIONS REFERRED- Contin_ ued. communication in reference to the assessment and collection of city taxes, re ferred to committee o n revetnu ed y........................... 3t communication in reference to bill of rights, referred to committee on bill of rights.......................... 249 communication in reference to boards of supervisors, &c., referred to committee on municipal corpora tions.............................. 281 communication in reference to cer tain amendments to constitution, referred to committee on education 262 communication in reference to cer tain reports of circuit judges, refer red to committee on judiciary..... 365 communication in reference to cir cuit courts, referred to committee on judiciary....................... 627 communication in reference to the condemnation of land for railroad purposes, referred to committee on railroad corporations.............. 389 communication in reference to coun ty auditor, referred to committee on revenue........................ 236 communication in reference to the establishment of public libraries, referred to committee on educa tion............................ 451 communication in reference to female suffrage, referred to committee on right of suffragc,(2)................ 129 communication in reference to ferry across the Mississippi river at St. Louis, referred to committee on miscellaneous subjects............ 389 communication and resolution in ref erence to formation of new coun ties, referred to committee on counties........................... 197 communication in reference to Illin. ois and Michigan canal, referred to committee on canal and canal lands.............................. 1477 communication in reference to the ju dicial system of Cook county, re ferred to committee on judiciary... 481 communication in reference to the La Salle miners, referred to committee on mines and mineral interests.... 306 communication in reference to loca tion of national capital, referred to committee on federal relations.... 179 280 from Secretary of State in reference to additional employes, submitted by the president...................1075 fromSecretary of State in reference to committee rooms, submitted by t he presid en t...................... o451 from Secretary of State in reference to his duties, &c., submitted by the president......................... 166 from Secretary of State in reference to extra employes, submitted by the president........................... 1076 from Secretary of State in reference to number of penitentiary convicts pardoned during the past 10 years, submitted by the president........ 306 from Secretary of State in reference to stationery furnished to conven tion, submitted by the president...1815 from Secretary of State in reference to stationery furnished to convention, remarks on................ lS16 to 1819 from Secretary of State in regard to stationery furnished to convention, appointment of committee of inves tigation in reference to............ 1828 from state agricultural society, in reference to the establishment of a state bureau of statistics, submitted by the president................... 128 from state agricultural society, in reference to the establishment of a state bureau of statistics, remarks on........... 128, 129 from State Treasurer, in reference to the duties and compensation of that officer, submitted by the presi dent.............................. 177 from State Treasurer, asking that resolution of inquiry, in reference to additional salaries of circuit judges, be referred to Auditor of State, submitted by the president.. 222 from stone cutters' association of Chi cago, in reference to convict labor, submitted by Mr. Medill.......... 141 from the stone cutters' association of Rock Island, in reference to convict labor, submitted by Mr. Trues dale............................... 118 from Superintendent of Public In struction, in reference to school statistics, submitted by the presi dent..........................305, 332 :from Superintendent of Public In struction, furnishing certain infor mation, submitted by the presi dent.............................. 1814 from treasurer of industrial univer sity, in reference to Superintendent of Public Instruction, submitted by the president...................... 1451 from treasurer of state board of edu cation, in reference to Superintend ent of Public Instruction, submit ted by the president..............1649 in reference to the action of clerks of circuit courts as recorders in certain cases, submitted by the president.. 289 in reference to amendments to consti tutionl, submitted by M~r. Snyder.. 262 in reference to the assessment and collection of city tasxes, submitted by Mr. Peirce.................. 306 an reference to bill of rights, submit ted by Mr. Turner 5*............ 24 -o9 in reference to boards of supervisors, etc., submitted by Mr. Anthony... 281 in reference to certain reports of circuit judges, submitted by Mr. lMcCoy.................*........... 365 in reference to certain reports of circuit judges, submitted by the president...................389, 653in reference to circuit courts, submit ted by Mr. Skinner............... 627 in reference to the subject of a code, submitted by Mr. Parks............... 451 in reference to the condemnation of land for railroad purposes, submit ted by Mr. Fuller......... 380 ~in reference to county auditor, sub mitted by Mr. Peirce....... 236 in1 reference to the establishment of public libraries, submitted by Mr.45 Bryan,................. in reference to ferry across the Missis sippi river at St. Louis, submitted by Mr. Snyder,........... 89~ in reference to female ~uffrage,, sub mitted by Ar,C, xal..........;'... 129i COMMUNICATIONS REFERRED. communication in reference to the action of clerks of circuit courts as recorders in certain cases, refer red to committee on judicial cir cuits......,.... t.................... f w INDEX. 3T ,COMMUNICATION-Continued. communication in reference to man ner of submission of new constitu tion, referred to committee on schedule....... - - -!m communication in,' i'eir'e'n' 'e' io''p' ar doning power and divorces, referred to committees on legislature and judiciary.......................... 167 communication in reference to plant ing trees on -highways, referred to comittee on manufactures and agriculture........................ 236 e-OMMUD!cation in reference to the protection of laborers, &c., referred to committee on miscellaneous subjects........................... 306 communication in reference to rail road crossings, &c., referred to committee on township organiza, tion.............................. 141 communication in reference to rail road tariffs in certain cases, referred to committee on miscellaneous cor porations......................... 679 communication in reference to the right of suffrage of foreigners, re ferred to committee on right of suffrage........................... 679 communication in reference to roads. referred to committee on roads and internal navigation................ 177 communication in reference to road tax, referred to committee on township organization............ 590 communication in reference to the sale of intoxicating liquors, refer red to committee on miscellaneous subjects........................... 3W c,^,mmunication in reference to sale of products of penitentiary labor, referred to committee on penitenti ary and reformatory institutions... 451 communication in reference to sepa rate submission ofjudiclary article, referred to committee on'udickry'.119 INDEX. COMMUNICATIONS REFERRED- CContin u4ed. communication in reference to short measure in fruits, referred to com mittee-on miscellaneous subjects.. 236 communication in reference to side walks, referred to committee on municipal corporations...............,- 306 communication in reference to State aid to railroads and canals, referred to committee on canal and canal lands................ 1477 -communication in reference to State university, referred to committee on education............25C communication in reference to taxa tion, referred to committee on reve nue 3...........;...35, 479 communication in reference to the subject of a code, referred to com mittee on judiciary.........451 communication in reference to the use of the bible in common schools, referred to committee on educa tion................745 comnmunication in reference to use of English language by physicians and lawyers, referred to committee on miscellaneous subjects.......280 communication from Auditor of State, in reference to the sale of lands belonging to Joel A. Matte son, referred to committee on reve n u e................510 communication from clerk of board of supervisors of Cook county, in reference to certain proceedings of said board, referred to committee on coun.ties............ 155 communication from Illinlois confer ence of the Methodist Episcopal church, on the subject of sectal-ian appropriations, referred to commit- tee on education.....................4 118 communication from Secretary of State, in reference to additional employes, referred to committee on accounts and expenditures of con-i vention..........................1076 communication from state agricultu ral society, in reference to the es tablishment of state bureau of sta tistics, referred to committee on manufactures and a~gricultulre............... 129 communication from- the stonecut ters' association of Chicago, in reference to convict labor, referred to committee on state institutions and public buildings..................., 141 communication front stonlecutters' association of Rock Island, in reiber ence to convict labor, referred to committee on penitentiary and re formatory institutions.,................... 118 commnunication on the subject of the constitution of Illinois, referred to committee on miscellaneous sub jects............................ 118 communication on the subject of drains, referred to committee on bill of rights...........,...,. 365 communication on the subject of mines and mining, referred to com- mittee on mines and mineral inter ests.................,210 communication on that subject of pri -vate roads, referred to committee on reads and internal navigation.. 117 communication on the subject of revenue, referred to committee on revenue..............627 communication on the subject of township organization, referred to committee on township organiza tion,................ 117 C 0 PE N SATI 0N —Conatin ued. of judges, resolution of Mr. Medill, in reference to..................... 174; of members of General Assembly, resolution of Mr. Springer, in ref erence to........................... 128 of members of General Assembly and sessions of General Assembly, reso lution of instruction of Mr. Ellis, to committee on legislature, in ref erence to..............50..... 83 of members of legislature and'future conventions, resolution of Mr. Un derwood of instruction to commit tee on legislature, in reference to.. 78 of officers and members of conven tion, resolution of Mr. Snyder, in reference to................... 736 -of official stenographers to conven tion, report from committee on printing and binding, in reference to................................ 293 extra, of public officers, resolution of Mr. Scholfield to amend constitu tion in reference to............... 154 and election of State officers, resolu tion of Mr. Bryan in reference to.. 83 and duties of State Treasurer, com munication from State Treasurer in reference to, submitted by the President......................... 177 for enrolling constitution, resolution of Mr. Cody in reference to.........1861 for private property appropriated for public use, resolution of Mr. Hank ins in reference to................. 192 for private property appropriated for public use, resolution of Mr. Hank ins in reference to, reported back c u t fo - from committee on roads and inter nal navigation...................... 2i7 CONSTITUTION — addiapprptions. r e c tions to, in refernce to assessments and appropriations..-. 1234 -amended, resolution of Mr. Bryan in reference to manner of submi ssion of to the people......................... 135 amendment to, in reference to codifi cation of laws, &c................. 193 amendment to, in reference to onsidof reporeration of railroads as public high ways........................1320 amendments to, relative to Coolk county judiciary........................... 96 amendments to, relating to fees, &c. 97 amendment to, in reference to oath of office of members of general as sembly....................... 139 amendment to, in reverence to plant ing trees on highways................ 83 amendment to, in reference to plant ing trees on highways, reported back from committee on township organization...............,.. 161 amendment to, in reference to rights of stockholders............... 139 amendment to, in reference'to State capital......................,....... 481 -amendment to, in reference to street grades............................... 344 communication in reference to cer tain amendments to........................ 26~ new, communication in reference to manner of submission of..................... 280 of Illinois, communication on the subject of............................ 118 delivery of, to Assistant Secretary of ;State, by the president.......................1879 -enrolled, reading of by secretary.................,18B9 proposition in reference to adoption of.................1833 of United States, remarks on the sub ject of printing...........84 of state, remarks of Mr. Anthony in reference to furnishing copies of... 9 -remarks of Mr. Bromwell on proposi tion in reference to adoption of....1833 remarks on report fromn committee on printing and binding mn reference i to publication of....,.......1704~ to 3706 report from committee on printing and binding in reference to publi -cation of, submitted by Mr. Tur i ner......................,.. 170 4 of state and of United States, &;c., resolution of Mr. Anthony to print. 72 resolution of Mr. SAllen, of Crawford, in reference to reference of, to ap propriate committees........ 8] resolution of Mr. Anthony in refer ence to order of signing.......18613 resolution of Mr. Archer, in reference to printing certain articles of.... 11'29 resolution of Mr. Cameron to rescind resolution to print proposed amend ments to...........,..... 116~ resolution of Mr. Church in referenee to further amendments to................. 1866~ resolution of Mr. Cody in reference K to compensation for enrolling................1861 resolution of Mr. Eldredge with re gacrd to reference of amendments, ti., to, to committees..................173; 176 national, resolution of hMr. Ellis in reference to amendments to................ 98 tresolution of Mr. Haines, of Lake, in reference to submission of...e......159 resolution of Mr. Hayes in reference to certain amenldments to. *..................... 57 for railroad purposes, communica tion in reference to................ 389 a CONDOLENCE-o resolution of, of Mr. Craig in refer ence to death of Hlon. A. G. Kirkta;in opatrick............................1228 resolution of, of Mr. Good ell, in refer en ce to the death of Hon. W. II. Patterson......................... 195 resolution of, of Mr. Harwood, in re ference to the death of Hon. Charles Emmerson..........13.1334 resolution of, of Mr. Hayes, in refer ence to calamity at Richmond..1537 resolution of, of Mr. Springer, in ref erence to the death of Hon. H. W. Billings. 1446 CONGRESSIONAL APPORTIONMENT, COMMITTEE ON-j appointment of*...................... CONGRESSIONAL DISTRICTS — resolution of instruction of Mr. Hil drup to committee on judiciary, in reference to establishment of...... 192 CONSIDERATION — of amendments to constitution, reso lution of instruction of Mr. Hayes to several committees, in reference to.............................., o 81 r u of railroads as public highways, pro posed amendment to constitution, in reference to, offered by Mr. Church....................1320 of reports of committees, resolution of Mr. C:hurc-h inl reference to................... 727 of reports of committees, resolution of Mr. Church in reference to, called X up and referred to committee on rules............................ 745 m of reports of committees, in commit tee of the whole, resolution of Mr. t Pillsbury in reference to. C i0 of reports of committee in conven tion, resolution of Mr. Church in reference to.. 702 i of report from committee on canal and canal lands, in regard to certain of c y cmodifications of article on canal, remarks in reference to..........1745 further, of report from committee on judiciary resolution of Mr. Ander- e son is reicrence to.............. 1087 S -. , i l $8 CO NSID ERA T IO N —Continued. of report from committee on miscel laneous corporations, resolution of Mr. McCoy in reference to time of.. 345 of report from committee on revision and adjustment, resolution of Mr. McDowell in reference to....................1662 of report from committee on right of suffrage, resolution of Mr. Hay to postpone special~: order in reference to...........~..................... 560) further, of report from committee on1 States county and municipal in debtedness, remarks of Mr. McCoy in reference to'.............. 1209 further, of section 39 of report from committee on judiciary, resolution of Mr. CaWy to postpones.................... 1180 CONSOnses since 1862.............226 to Ago 40 INDEX. CONVENTION-Continued. debate in, on repo rt from committee on revenue, as amended in commit tee of the whole............ 1597 to 1621 1774 to 1776 debate in, on report from committee on revision and adjustment on arti cle on judiciary............ 1810 to 1813 debate in, on report from committee on revision and adjustment, on arti cles on suffrage, education, revenue, counties, corporations, militia, ca nals and warehouses........ 1834 to 1840 debate in, on report from committee on revision and adjustment, on arti cles on preamble, distribution of powers, boundaries, bill of rights, legislature and executive...1776 to 1783 debate in, on report from committee on revision and adjustment on schedule...........1849 to 1859 debate in, on report from committee on right of suffrage, as amended in committee of the whole....1281 to 1309 debate in, on report from committee on rules of......................59, 60 debate in, on report from committee on schedule, as amended in comiimit tee of the whole............ 1819 to 1832 debate in, on report from committee on state, county and municipal in debtedness, as amended in commit tee of the whole............ 1256 to 1260 debate in, on resolution of Mr. Allen, of Crawford, authorizing commit tee on legislative department, to employ clerk................113 to 116 debate in, on resolution of Mr. Allen, of Crawford, in reference to print ing veto messages.......151 to 153 debate in, on resolution of Mr. An thony in reference to state and na tional government...............98, 99 debate in, on resolution of Mr. Brown ing in reference to afternoon ses sions of convention.............. 282 to 281 debate in, on resolution of Mr. Church to adopt rule 49, in reference to the effect of tabling amendments.183 to 188 debate in, on resolution of Mr. Craig to furnish members of convention with daily papers............ 180 to 182 debate in, on resolution of Mr. Eng lish in reference to adjournment..86, 87 debate in on resolution of Mr. English in reference to recess of.. 826 to 832 debate in, on resolution of Mr. Parks in reference to furnishing stationery to members of................... 65, 66 debate in, on resolution of Mr. Peirce in reference to reports of standing committees.................. 258 to 260 debate in, on resolution of Mr. Snyder in reference to furnishing newspa pers to members of............ 60 to 65 debate in, on resolution of Mr. Turner in reference to printing of......94 to 96 ,debate in, on resolution of Mr. Wag ner in reference to committee rooms............... 4:58 to 490; debate in, on resolution of Mr. Wash burn in reference to printing resolu tions..................88, 89: debate in, on resolution of Mr. Wells in reference to election of delegate to convention, in place of Hon. -Wm. H. Patterson, deceased..197 to 209 debate in, on resolution of Mr. Wells to rescind resolution of inquiry of SMr. Foxr to Auditor of State, in reference to expenses of general assembly since 1862, and of consti tutional convention of 18652.......8, 81 debate in, on resolution of Mr. Wend ling in reference to ratification of amendments to federal constitu tion............... 16e1 to 166 debate in, on resolution in reference to oath of office............ 9 to 49 debate in, on resolution of inquiry of Mr. Anthony to Auditor of State, in reference to railroads....... 912 to 915 debate in, on resolution of inquiry of Mr. Fox to Auditor of State, in reference to expenses of general assemnbly since 1862, etc........ 68 to 70 debate in, on resolution of instruction of Mr. Allen, of Crawford, to com mittee on revenue, in reference to taxation of church property used for other than religie~s pur poses.................... 22~ to 925 debate in, on the subject of conven tion printing............. 1203 to 1207 debate in, on the subject of printing debates of....................... 89, 90 debate in, on the subject of printing prayers offered in............ 168 to 172 debate in, on the subject of recess of........................... 866 to 873 election of doorkeepers pro tern., of.. 7 election of doorkeepers of........... 52 election of postmasters of...... 53, 54 election of president pro tern., of.... 6 election of president of.............. 50 election of secretary and assistant secretary pro tern., of. f.... 6 election of secretaries of.......... 51, 52 oath of office administered to officers of............................... 54 of 1862, and general assembly since 1862, resolution of Mr. Wells to rescind resolution of inquiry to Auditor of State in reference to expenses of....................... s0 of 1862, resolution of Mr. Merriam of inquiry to Auditor of State, in in reference to expenses of........ 68 opening prayer of............ 9 ordinance relative to privileges of members of....................... 56 prayers offered in, debate on the sub ject of printing..............168 to 172 presentation to president, on behalf of pages of........................1029 printing, resolution of Mr. King, in reference to proposals for........ 67 reception of General Sheridan by....1423 recess of............................ 1232 remarks in reference to additional pay to secretaries of............. 1865, 1868 remarks in reference to adjournment sine die of.........................1859 remarks in reference to appointment of pages of........................ 54 remarks in reference to holding eve ning sessions of................374, 375 remarks in reference to postage of..1231 remarks in reference to recess of.... 736 737, 798, 799 remarks of Mr:. Parks in reference to adoption of report from committee on accounts and expenditures of convention, in reference to unnec essary employes of............... 1231 remarks of president pro tern., in ref- erence to prayers in............... 9 remarks of president in reference to recess of.......................... 894 remarks of president pro tern., on election........................... 6 remarks of president of, on election. 51 remarks of president, on presentation o on behalf of pages of..............1029 remarks on communication from Sec retary of State, in reference to sta tionery furnished to....... 1816 to 1819 remarks on election of president pro tens. of.......................... 1 to 6 remarks on election of president of.. 50 remarks on report from committee on accounts and expenditures of con- vention, in reference to expenses of.......................... 1787 to 1789 remarks on report of committee on printing and binding, in reference to furnishing manual to.......146, 147 remarks on report from committee on rules on the subject of amending the rules of............... Io.... 1234 remarks on rule requiring,two-thirds vote of............................1841 remarks on rules of in reference to t,)wnship and county organization73, 74: remarks on the subject of call of.... 793 remarks on the subject of printing of,1178 to 1183, 1203 to 1207, 1211 remarks on the subject of printing prayers offered in..............13 140 report from committee on accounts and expenditures of convention, in reference to expenses of............ 1787 report from committee on accounts and expenditures of convention, in reference to expenses of............r 1861 report from committee on accounts and expenditures of convention, in reference to per diem of members and officers of; etc................. 997 report from committee on accounts and expenditures of convention in reference to postmaster of......... 857 i I I I I INDEX. 40 CONVE NTIO,N —Continved. CONVENTION-Continued. report from committee on accounts and expenditures of convention, in reference to stationery furnished to 1862 report from committee on accounts and expenditures of convention, in reference to unnecessary employes of............................ 1230 report from committee on printing and binding, in reference to com pensation of official stenographers to................................. 293 report from committee on printing and binding, in reference to cost of printing of........................ 654 report of committee on printing and binding, in reference to furnishing manuals to........................ 145 report from committee an printing and binding, in reference to furnish ing newspapers to................. 129 report from committee on printing and binding in reference to furnish ing state maps to.................. 280 report from committee on printing and binding, in reference to print ing and binding debates of..... 101, 118 report from committee on printing and binding, in reference to trans scription of journals of, submitted by Mr. Medill..................... 1865 report from committee on rules of.... 58 report from committee on rules, on the subject of amending the rules of................................. 12'3 reporting and printing of resolution of instruction of Mr. Parks, to committee on accounts and expen ditures of convention, in reference to cost of..................1649 resolution of Mr. Allen, of Crawford, in reference to afternoon sessions of................................ 261 resolution of Mr. Allen, of Crawford, to appoint committee to -prepare rules of................... 51 resolution of Mr. Anthony in refer ence to election of delegate to, in place of Hon. Wm. H. Patterson, deceased.......................... 208 resolution of Mr. Anthony in refer ence to journal of.............1845 resolution of Mr. Archer in reference to afternoon sessions of............ 258 resolution of Mr. Bayne in reference to pay of policemen of............ 1202 resolution of Mr. Bowman in refer ence to payment of members and offlcers of.......................... 192 resolution of Mr. Bromwell in refer ence to cleaning hall during recess of................................. 1210 resolution of Mr. Bromwell in refer ence to extra employes of........ 1012 resolution of Mr. Bromwell in refer ence to furnishing newspapers to members of........................ 13X resolution of Mr. Bromweil in refer ence to furnishing stationery to members of....................... 6 resolution of Mr. Bromwell in refer enc-eto memorial page in journal of.,............1631 resolution of Mur. Brown in reference to adjournment, sine die, of................... 249 resolution of Mr. Browning in refer ence to afternoon sessions of................. 28~ resolution of Mr. Browning in refer ence to hour of adjournment of.... 141 resolution of Mr. Browning in refer ence to organization of.................... 4 resolution of Mr. Bryan in reference to adjournment, sine die, of..................1859 resolution of Mr. Buxton in reference to publication and Redistribution of proceedings of........................ 62 resolution of Mr. Cameron inviting General Sheridan and staff to vis it......................... 140 3 resolution of Mr. Cary in reference to evening sessions of............... 1087 resolution of Mr. Church in reference to consideration of reports of com mittees in..................... 702 resolution of Mr. Church in reference to election of delegate to, iv. place of Eon. W. H. Patterson, deceas ed*........ 198 resolution of Mr. Church in reference to morning sessions of...............1232 resolution of Mr. Church i~ reference to morning sessions of, called up....1233 INDEX. 41 CONVENTION-Continued. resolution of Mr. C ody i n re f e rence to furnishing additional newspapers to members of..................... 134 resolution of Mr. Coolbaugh in ref erence to election of permanent officers of...................... 49 resolution of Mr. Coolbaugh to disc continue printing of prayers offer ed in.............................. 169 resolution of Mr. Craig in reference to election of delegate to, in place of Hon. A. G. Kiripatrick........ 1231 resolution of Mr. Craig to furnish dai ly papers to members of........... 180 resolution of Mr. Cross in reference to furnishing postage stamps to members of........................ 1320 resolution of Mr. Cross in reference to'furnishing state maps to........ 262 resolution of Mr. Cummings in refer ence to oath to be taken by mem bers of............................ 590 resolution of Mr. Cummings, of thanks to secretaries of............ 1845 resolution of Mr. Ellis to allow addi tional copies of debates to mem beri of............................ 182 resolution of Mr. English instructing secretary of, to deliver to commit tee on finance certain letters re ceived frons county clerks in refer ence to railroads.................. 260 resolution of Mr. English in reference to per diem during recess of....... 1860 resolution of Mr. English in reference to recess of........................ 726 resolution of Mr. English in reference to recess of, called u p.............. 826 resolution of Mr. Fox in reference to, election of permanent officers of... 50 resolution of Mr. Fox in reference to payment of officers and members of................................. 88 resolution of Mr. Haines, of Lake, in reference to adjournment sine die of........................ 1649 resolution of Mr. Haines, of Lake, in reference to furnishing postage stamps to members of........... 91, 344 resolution of Mr. Haines, of Lake, in reference to number of news-paperi to be furnished to members of..... 138 resolution of Mr. Haines, of Lake, in reference to payment of certain em ployes of..............1208 resolution of Mr. Haines, of Lake, in reference to per diem of members of, during recess............. 345 resolution of Mr. Haines, of Lake, in reference to recess of.............. 866 resolution of Mr. Haines, of Lake, to furnish additional postage stamps to................................. 180 resolution of Mr. Hanna in reference to election of delegate to, in place of Hon. B. W. Henry...... 1031 Tesolution of Mr. Hay in referenee to printing of........................ 1207 resolution of Mr. Hay in reference to publication and distribution of pro ceedings of.................... 64 resolution of Mr. Hay in reference to reference of report fr'om committee on ac~counts and expenditures of conv~entionl in regard to expenses of....................1790 resolution of Mr. Hay, to appoint committee on accounts and e~xpend itures of................ 92 resolution of Mr. Henry, in reference to furnishing newspapers to mem bers of........ 57 resolution of Mr. King, in reference to pee diem of members and offi cers of....................1425 resolution of Mr. King, in reference to postage of.................1763 resolution of Mr. King, to refer ac counts of to committee on accounts and expenditures of convention... 678 resolution of Mr. McDowell, in refer ence to per diems of mnembrers and employees of.............l...178 resolution of Mr. Medill, to employ Ely, Burnham & Bartlett, stenlo graphers to................. 67 resolution of Mr. Medill, to furnish postage stamps to secretary of..................1231 resolution of Mr. Moore, in reference to unneccessary employes of.....:............1230 resolution of Mr. Neede, in reforenct to payment of employes of.................. 93 resolution of Mr. Parks, in reference to adjournment sine die of..........1677 resolution of Mr. Parks, in reference to furnishing stationery to members of................................. 65 resolution of Mr. Parks in reference to postage of......................1231 resolution of Mr. Parks in reference to powers and duties of............Wh n 91 resolution of Mr. Peirce in reference to additional pay to Secretaries of..1860 r resolution of Mr. Peirce in reference to evening sessions of............. 1477 resolution of Mr. Peirce in reference to furnishing additional postage stamps to members of..........481 resolution of Mr. Rice in reference to election of delegate to, in place of Hon. Wm. H. Patterson, deceased. 200 resolution of Mr. Robinson in refer, ence to employment of postmaster during recess of..................1208 resolution of Mr. Ross to modify res- olution in reference to stationery furnished to members of........... 261 resolution of Mr. Sedgwick in refer ence to daily prayer in............. 56: resolution of Mr. Sedgwick in refer ence to furnishing additional copies of debates to members of........ 1339 resolution of Mr. Sedgwick in refer ence to furnishing newspapers to member s of........I...'l,.125, 169 resolution of Mr. Skinner in refer ence to employment of Secretaries during recess of................... 1190, resolution of Mr. Skinner, of thanks, to President of....................1845 resolution of Mr. Snyder in reference to compensation of officers and members of....................... 736 resolution of Mr. Snyder in reference to furnishing newspapers to mem bers of..........................57, 61 resolution of Mr. Snyder in reference to pay of deceased and resigning members of....................... 987 resolution of Mr. Snyder in reference to payment of temporary employes of.............................. 88, 92 resolution of Mr. Snyder in reference to removal of, to Chicago.......... 322 resolution of Mr. Snyder in reterence to sessions of...................... 260 resolution of Mr. Springer in refer ence to recess of................... 860 resolution of Mr. Tincher in reference to the custody and distribution of printed matter of............... 389 resolution of Mr. Truesdale in refer ence to election of delegate to, in place of Hon. Wia. H. Patterson, deceased........................... 198 resolution of Mr. Turner in reference to care of hall during recess of....19 Aio oPbc cot 1190 resolution of Mr. Turner in refer ence to furnishing manuals to....1 relioisui oM. 136 resolution of K Mr. Turner in reference to payment of certain employes of.1189 resolution of Mr. Turner in ref erence to payment of officer~ and mem bers of........................8o u. Tr87 resolution of Mr. Turner in reference to payment of pges of.e op i i ooa... 75 resolution of Mr. Turner in reference to per diem ofmelnbers and officers cuof........................ 987 resolution of Mr. Turner in reference to per diem of members and officers of, reported back from committee on accounts and expenditures of convention, and agreed to........ 998 resolution of Mr. Turner in reference to printing of..................94,51179 resolution of Mr. Turner in reference to rules of.....................,., resolution of Mr. Underwood in ref erence to postage stamps for rol.cllof.onressmbin.. 93 resolution of Mr. Underwood in ref erence to sovereign power of........... 213 resolution of Mr. ~andeventer in ref erence to adjournment sine die of..1861 resolution of Mr. Vandeventer i n r ef erence to appointment of pages of. M4 resolution of Mr. Vandeventer in ref erenee to binding journal of................176: resolution of Mr. Vandeventer in ref e rence to morning session of...... 702 resolution of Mr. Vandeventer in ref- - erence to morning session of, called up and acted upon.............mn r m r n... 703 CONVENTION-C~ontinued. resolution of Mr. Vandeventer in ref erence to payment of officers and members of....................... 429 resolution of Mr. Wagner in reference to adjournment sine die of.........1596 resolution of Mr. Wait to close with prayer............................ 1863 resolution of Mr. Wall in reference to adjournment sine die of............ 1233 resolution of Mr. Washburn in refer ence to morning sessions of....... 5......... resolution of Mr. Washburn in refer ence to morning sessions of, called up................................,8 resolution of Mr. Washburn in refer. ence to recess of.................. 1077 resolution of Mr. Wells in reference to election of delegate to, in place of Hon. Wm. H. Patterson, de.ceased............................. 197 resolution of Mr. Wells in reference to heading of stationery furnished to members of......... 72 resolution of Mr. Wells in reference to recess of....................... 859 resolution of Mr. Wendling in refer ence to furnishing additional post age stamps to secretary of......... 367 resolution of Mr. Wendling to fur nish postage stamps to secretary of................................. 1231 resolution of Mr. Wheaton in refer ence to evening session of......... 402 resolution of Mr. Wright to furnish newspapers to elective officers of.. 127 resolution of inquiry of Mr. Ander son to Secretary of State, in refer ence to the amount of stationery .furnished to....................... 533 resolution of instruction of Mr. Came ron to committee on accounts and expenditures of convention, in reference to Dostmaster of......... 758 resolution of instruction of Mr. Cross to committee on accounts and ex penditures of convention, in refer ence to unnecessary employes of... 1178 resolution of instruction of Mr. Cum mings to committee on accounts and expenditures of convention, in reference to stationery furnished to................................. 1416 resolution of instruction of Mr. Cum mings to committee on printing and binding, in reference to cost of printing of........................ 532 resolution of instruction of Mr. Ellis to Secretary of State, in reference to articles furnished to members of. 260 resolution of instruction of Mr. Haines, of Lake, to committee on printing and binding, in refbrence to furnishing state maps to........ 192 resolution of instruction of Mr. Moore to Secretary of State and Auditor of Public Accounts, in reference to accounts of........... 1230 resolution of instruction of Mr. Tur ner to committee on accounts and e~xpenlditures of convention. in ref erence to per diem of members and officers caf........................... 89~i resolution of instruction of Mr. Tur ner to Secretary of State, in refer ence to publication of journal of... 213 roll call oft, on election of first and second assistant doorkeepecrs of..52, 53 roll call of, on election of secretary and assistant secretary of................ 51, 52 roll call of, on election of p~ostmaster and assistant postmaster of................54 roll call of, on election of president and secretary, pro tern of................. 8 roll call of, on election of president of............................. 50 roll call of, on motion of Mr. Cross ibr call of..........................1087 roll call of, On organization osf................... 1 roll call of, on reassembling..................1232 roll call of, to ascertain the presence of a quorum........................1233 rule requiring two-thirds vote of................1841 Washington's Farewell Address, read by secretary of...................... 795S CONVENTION AND ASSEMBLY EX:PENS LES SINCE 1862 debate on report from committee DIn retrenchmnent and reform, in refer - ence t o.... fw......... 226 to 230, 237 to 245 report from committee on retrench merit and reform, in reference to,.. 226 INDEX. 41 CONVENTION-Continued. F................................. COOLBAUGH, WM. F.-Continued. remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on judi ciary, as amended in committee of the whole........................14 32 1481, 1483, 1489, 1491, 1499 r remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on legis lative department, as amended in committee of the whole........933, 966 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on mis cellaneous corporations, in refer ence to warehouses, as amended in committee of the whole......... 1698 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on rail road corporations, as amended in committee of the whole......... 1718 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on banks and currency.1679 1680 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on judiciary...... 1146, 1151 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on legislative depart ment.............................. 500 522, 523, 538, 555, 572, 573, 579 586; 592, 593, 640, 645, 646, 686 694 COPIES additional, of debates, resolution of Mr. Sedgwick, in reference to fur nishing members of convention with.............................. 1339 additional, of report from committee on state, county and municipal in debte dness, resolution of Mr. Mc Coy to print...................... 482 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on miscellaneous corpo rations............................1667 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on miscellaneous cor porations, in reference to ware houses.... 1625, 1626,1632, 1636 remarks of, on report from commit- tee on printing and binding, in ref erence to printing and binding convention debates................ 111ll remarks of, in debate on report from committee on railroad corpora tions..............................1639(i remarks of, in debate on report from committee on retrenchment and re form, in reference to convention and assembly expenses since 1862...... 226 243, 245 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on state, county and municipal indebtedness............ 214 218, 221, 222, 295, 301, 303, 841, 848 remarks of, in debate on resolution of inquiry of Mr. Anthony to Auditor of State, in reference to railroads.. 913 remarks of, in debate on resolution of Mr. Browning in reference to after noon sessions of convention........ 283 remarks of, in debate on resolution of Mr. Church to adopt rule 49, in reference to the effect of tabling amendments.................. 184, 187 remarks of, in reference to the amend ment of rules..................1.... t6 remarks of, in reference to effect of motion to adjourn................ 1549 remarks of, on complimentary resolu tion of Mr. Whiting in reference to essay on the origin of the prai rie s................................ 488 remarks of, on election of 2d assis tant doorkeeper.................5r i. 52 remarks of, on motion of Mr. Wag- ner for "previous question,"...... 1540 remarks of, on resolution in reference to limitation'of State indebtedness. 150 remarks of, on resolution of Mr. Church in reference to considera tion of reports of committees.... 727 remarks of, on resolution of instruc tion of Mr. Goodhue to committee on revision and adjustment, in i-ef erence to section 6 of article on right of suffrage.................. 1662 remnarks of, on resolutions ofinstruc tion oi, Mr. Moore to Auditor of State and treasurer of State Nor mal School and Industrial Univer sity, in reference to Superintendent of Public Instruction.............1390 remarks of, on rules of convention in reference to township and county organization...................... 74 remarks of, on the subject of adjourn ment............................ 73 remarks of, on the subject of printing prayers, offered in convention..... 139 report from committee on rules of convention. submitted by.........58 oS resolution in reference to election of permanent officers of convention.. 49 CONVICT LABOR communication from Stone Cutters' Association of Chicago, in reference to................................. 141 communication from the Stone Cut ters' Association of Rock Island, in reference to.................... 118, 191 resolution of Mr. Snyder in reference to the employment of, on state works............................ 213 CORPORATE LIMITS resolution of Mr. Abbott in reference to extension of.................... 679 of towns and cities, resolution of in struction of Mr. Bryan to commit tee on miscellaneous subjects, in reference to....................... 211 of towns and cities, resolution of in struction of Mr. Bryan to commit' tee on miscellaneous subjects; in reference to, reported back and re ferred to committee on mfiicipal corporations......................."_)8 COOK COUNTY communication from clerk of board of supervisors of, in reference to certain proceedings of said board.. 155 communication in reference to judi cial system of..................... 481 petition in reference to courts of.... 1040 petition in reference to the division of......................... 365, 851 remarks on introduction of statistics of litigation in, for the year 1869... 97 statistics of litigation in, for the year 1869................................ 97 CORPORATION or State proceedings, resolution of in struction of Mr. King to committee on judiciary, i n reference to pre sumptions of law or fact in........ 212 COOK COUNTY JUDICIARY amendments to constitution relative to................................. 96 memorial in reference to............. 1077 petition in reference t o.... 965 remarks on submission of memorial in reference to..................... 1077 remonstrance in reference to proposed system of......................... 1012 CORPORATIONS private, article in reference to muni cipal subscriptions to ca pi tal stock of ~~~~~~~1104 of.................................10 private, debate on article in reference to municipal subscriptions to capi tal stock of................1234 to 1PA2 private, article in reference to muni cipal subscriptions to capital stock of, as amended in committee of the whole, debate on, in convention...17 30 private, article in reference to muni cipal subscription to capital stock euf; referred to committee on sched ule................................ 1730 private, resolution of Mr. Scholfield in reference to rights of........... 67 private, resolution of Mr. Scholfield in reference to right of, called up and referred to committee on judi ciar y............ 88 public, resolution of Mr. Whiting in reference to considering railroads as.................. 148 railroad, resolution of instruction of Mr. Church to committee on revis ion and adjustment, in reference to article on......................... 1723 railroad, resolution of instruction of Mr. Church to committee on revis ion and adjustment, in reference to article on, called up and amended.1731 report from committee on revision and adjustment on article on, sub mitted by Mr. Cody................ 1834 COOLBAUGH, WM. F.-(a Delegate from the Sixtieth Representative District.) amendment of, to amendment of Mr. Truesdale to section I of report trom committee on railroad corpor ations.............................1640 amendment of, to section 42 of report from committee on judiciary, as amended in committee of the whole............................. 1491 amendment of, to section 4 of report from committee on state, county and municipal indebtedness o........ 848 amendment of, to substitute of Mr. Anthony, to section 39 of report from committee on judiciary, as amended in committee of the whole................... I......... 1481 appointed member of committee on accounts and expenditures of con vention........................... 93 appointed member of committee on banks and currency.............. 75 appointed member of committee on Itlgislature................ 75 appointed member of committee on rules of convention................ 56 appointed member of committee on schedule.......................... 75 appointed member of committee on state, county and municipal indebt edness...........a................ 75 leave of absence granted to.......... 77 128, 253, 453, 851 petition in reference to Cook county judiciary, submitted by............ 965 renarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on coun ties, as amended in committee of the whole.................... 15 11, 1517 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on exec utive, as amended inommittee of the whole......................... 1 34 INDEX. 42 COOLBAUGII, WM F.-Continued. resolution in reference to limitation of state indebtedness.............. 150, resolution to discontinue the printing of prayers offered in convcutioD... lf)9 resolution of instruction to commit tee on revenue, in reference to exemption from taxation......... 211 substitute of, to section 30 of repot .from comniittee on judiciary.....1145 substitute of, to section 3 of;eport from committee on miseelladeous corporations,.in reference to ware houses CONVICTS pardoned from the penitentiary dur iDg the past ten years, communica- - tion from Secretary of State in ref erence to..... 306 :.................... pardoi3ed during the past ten years, resolution of inquiry of Mr. Archer to Secretary of State in reference to............................... g.. 157 pardoned during the past ten ye rs, resolution of idquiry of Mr. Archer to warden of penitentiary, in r,fer ence to............................ 154 penitentiary, pardoned during - the past ten years, communication from Governor of State in reference t Dumber of...................... 343 penitentiary, pardoned during the past ten years, resolution of in quii-y of Mr. Cary to Governor of State, in reference to number of... 168 CORPORAL piiD!sbMeDt in schools, resolution of Mr. SDyder in reference to......... 1078 CORRECTION.of journal in reference to nomination of presidentpro tem......... I...... 9 of rpeeches, report from committee on printing and bindidg, in refer ence to............................ 1.67 COST of committee room.s, resolution of Mr. Cross in reference to............. 510 of convention printing, report from Fommittee on printie- and binding, in reference to.................... 654 INDEX 4 3 COUNTY SEATS-Continued. resolution of Mr. Ellis in reference to the removal of.................... 281 resolution of Mr. Haines, of Lake, in reference to removal of..........1n.. s155 resolution of Mr. Scholfield to amend constitution in reference to removal of........................... 174 resolution of instruction of Mr. Bayne to committee on counties, in reference to removal of............ 154 and counties, resolution of instruc tion of Mr. Cummings to commit tee on counties, in reference to.... 178 resolution of instruction of Mr. Springer to committee on counties, in reference to..................... 92 COUNTIES, COMMITTEE ON-Continued. resolution of Mr. Eldredge, i n refer - ence to forma tion of new count ies, referred to........................ m resolution of Mr. Ellis in reference to -the removal of county seats, re ferred to.......................... 283 resolution of Mr. Haines, of Lake, in reference to the formation of coun 4.ies, referred to................... 180 resolution of Mr. Haines, of Laie, in reference to the removal of county seats, referred to.................... 155 resolution of Mr. Medill in reference to fees of county officers, referred to................................ 174 resolution of Mr. Scholfield to amend constitution in reference to remo val of county seats, referred to.... 174 resolution of Mr. Sherrill in reference to official fees, and the eligibility of sheriffs to re-election, reported back from committee on township organization, and referred to......'M5 resolution of Mr. Snyder in reference to election of public administrator, referred to........................103'Z resolution of Mr. Snyder in reference to manner of election of master in chancery, referred to.............. 745 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Bayne, in reference to election of county officers.................... 154 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Bayne, in reference to removal of county seats...................... 154, resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Cummings, in reference to counties and county seats.................. 178 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Neece, in relation to circuit clerk and recorder...................... 84 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Ross, in reference to term of county officers............................. 193 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Springer, in reference to county seats............................. 92 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Wagner, in reference to county boundaries............... 179 COUNTIES article on, submitted by Mr. El dredge............................ 151 new, communication and resolution from citizens of Sangamon county, submitted by Mr. Hay, in reference to the formation of................ 197 petition in reference to the division of......................... 306, 389, 589 new, petition in reference to the for mation of.................. 389, 726, 757 petition in reference to the formation and division of.................... 451 petition on the subject of...........1324 protest in relation to the division of.. 280 report from the committee on revis ion and adjustment on article on, submitted by Mr. Cody............ 1834 new, resolution of Mr. Abbott i n reference to formation of.......an.... 93 towns, etc., resolution of Mr. Antho ny in reference to subscriptions to stock by........... to.......... 154 new, resolution of Mr. Eldredge in reference to formation of........ 262 resolution of Mr. Haines, of Lake, in reference to formation of.......... 180 and county seats, resolution of in quiry of Mr. Cummings to com mittee on counties, in reference to 178 COUNTIES, COMMITTEE ON appointment of..................... 75o article in reference to county officers, referred to........................ 174 article on counties, referred to....... 151 communication and resolution in ref erence to the formation of new counties, referred to.............. 197 communication fr'om clerk of the board of supervisors of Cook county, in reference to certain pro ceedings of said board, referred to..........................155 debate on report from........1.324 to' 13367C debate in convention on report from, as amended in committee of the whole..................... 1502 to 1557m majority report from, submitted by Mr. Craig......................... 306 minority report from, submitted by Mr. Abbott...................... 307 petition in reference to the division of counties, referred to......306 39, 589 petition in reference to the division of Cook county, referred t.... 366, 851 petition in reference to the formation and division of counties, referred to............................... 451 petition in reference to the forma tion of a new county, referred to.. 451 petition in reference to the formation of new counties, referred to....... 389 726, 757 petition on the subject of counties, referred to......................... 13.24 protest in relation to the division of counties, referred to............... 280 report from, in reference to maps for use of convention, submitted by Mr. Craig....................2..... 2 11 re port from, referred to committee on revision and adjustment...........1557 resolution of Mr. Abbott in reference to formation of new counties, refer red to........................ re u n 93 resolution of Mr. Cameron in refer e once to the transfer of townships, referred to........................ 192 resolution of Mr. Craig in refer encee to members of county boards, referred to....................1.... 155 COUNTY CLERKS resolution of Mr. Eldredge in refer ence to fees of, in certain cases.... 262 resolution of Mr. English instructing secretary of convention to deliver to committee on finance certain let ters from, in reference to railroads. 260 resolution of inquiry to, of Mr. Eng lish in reference to railroads....... 182 COURTS Cook county, petition in reference to................................. 1040 of law or equity, resolution of Mr. Church in reference to the state all defendant in...................... 175 CRAIG, ALFRED M.-(a Delegate from the Thirty-fourth Representative District.) amendment of, to amendment of Mr. Snyder to section 5 of report from committee on counties, as amended in committee of the whole........1542 amendment of, to section 4 of report from committee on counties, as amended in co mmittee of the whole............................. 1531 appointed member of committee on counties.......................... 1i appointed member of committee on electoral and representative reform; 75 appointed member of committee on' legislative apportionment......... 75 appointed member of committee on mines and mining interests........ 93 appointed member of committee on railroad corporations.............. 75 communication in reference to female suffrage, submitted by............ 129 leave of absence granted to.......26 1, 864 majority report from committee on counties, submitted b y............30X remarks of, on resolution of Mr. Hen. ry in reference to furnishing news papers to members of convention.. 65 report from committee on counties in reference to maps for use of com mittee, submitted b y.............. 211 resolution in reference to the death of Hon. A. G. Kirkpatrick............1 22 8 resolution in reference to election of delegate to convention in place of Hon. A. G. Kirkpatrick............31 resolution in reference to members Cif county boards..................... 155 COUNTY SEATS petition in reference to the removal of........................... 1477, 1502 proposition in reference to removal of................................. * 07 1-12 I I 143 INDEX. COST-Cgnti,nued. of convention printingresolution of Instruction of Mr. ummi' " to ommittee on printing and iding, in reference to..................... 532 ofconvention reporting and printing, resolution of instruction of Mr. Parks to committee on accounts and expenditures of convention' in refereioce to.......: - -'- -6......... 1649 of Illinois and Michigan anal, sta tisties in reference to.............. SM of printinz and biud' COM!UUDica. tion from Auditor ot Atate, in refer ence to........ 123 0 f p r 1 n t'l D g n e w 'n's t' i t'u' t' i o' D' " ,e,s,o i'U - tion of instruction of Mr. Wall to Committee on printing and binding, in reference to...... 704 of registration for t'yiiS' ii'and 1869, communication from Auditor of State in reference to............ 280 of registration for the years 1868 and 1869, resolution of inquiry of Mr. Rice, to Auditor of State in refer eiace to............................ 261 COIJNTY auditor, communication in reference to................................. 236 boundaries, resolution of instruction. of Mr. Wagner to committee on counties, in reference to........... 179 and city indebtedness, resolution of Mr. Rays in reference to article on. 1190 collector and sheriff, resolution of Mr. -erence to........ Snyder in rei' 93 -newspapers, resolution of Mr. edg wick in reference to the publication of laws in......................... ,12 new, petition in reference to the for mation -of......................... 451 and township lines, petition in refer ence to............................ 679 s,nd town appropriations &c., resolu tion of Mr. Wagner in reference to - 179 COUNTY BOARDS resolution of Mr. Craig in reference to members of..................... 155 COURT OF COMMON PLEAS, ETC. resolution of instruction of Afr. Pills bury to committee on judiciary, to amend constitution in reference to. 150 COUNTY COURTS resolution of Mr. Archer in reference to, and to their jurisdiction........ 67 and their jurisdiction, resolution of Mr. Archer in reference to, taken up and referred to committee on ju di,iary............................ 88 OOUNTY OFFICERS article in reference to................ 174 resolution of Mr. Medi!l in reference to fees of.......................... 174 resolution of Mr. Moore in reference to fees of.......................... 180 resolution of Mr. Rice in reference to fees of............................. 116 resolution of instruction of Mr. Bayne to committee on counties in refer,ence to election of................. 154 resolution of instruction of Mr. Mer riam to committee on state, county and municipal indebtednesr, in ref erence to compensation of......... 177. resolution of instruction of Mr. Ross to committee on counties in refer ence to term of.................... 1943 COUNTY REPRESENTATIO LN resolution of Mr. Haines, of Lake, in reference to....................... 116 resolution of instruction of Mr. Al l,en, of Crawford, to committee on legislature, inreference to......... 82 44 INDEX. CUMMINGS, SAMUEL C.-Continued. arme n dment of, to sections 2, 3,4,12,16, 23 and 29 of report from committee on judiciary..1000, 1046, t1056,1094,1144 amendment of, to section 13 of report from committee on judiciary, as amended in committee of the whole1444 amendment of, to sections 5, 7, 32 and 37 of report from committee on leg isl.ative department...699, 731, 572, 637 amendment of, to section 1 of report from committee on military affairs 861 amendment of,.to section 2 of report front committee on miscellaneous subjects, in reference to homestead exemptions....................... 911 amendment of, to sections 4 and 2 of report from committee on revenue, as amended in committee of the whole........................ 1602, 1604 amendment of, to section 9 of report from committee on schedule.......L rr 01 amendment of. to section 4 of report from committee on state, county and municipal indebtedness....847, 850 amendment of, to section 1 of report from committee on township organ ization........................... 880 appointed member of committee of investigation, in reference to com municatioil from Secretary of State, in regard to stationery furnished to convention........................ 1828 appointed member of committee on canal and canal lands.............. 75 appointed member of committee on ftuture darendments............... 75... o apppointed member of committee on military affairs.....................li appointed memitber of committee on mines and miining interests........ 93 appointed -member of committee to measure printed matter, etc., of convention........................ 1865 appointed member of committee to select committee to prepare ad dress to the people of the State...1732 leave of absence granted to......210, 7'58 remarks of, in de)bate in convention on report from committee on coun ties, as amended in committee of the whole........................1544 remarks of; in debate in convention on report from committee on judi ciary, as amended in committee of the whole..................... 1406 1438, 1444, 1458, 1470, 1482 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on legis lative department, as amended in committee of the whole.......923, 966 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on sched ule, as amended in committee of the whole........................1822 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on banks and curren cy................................ 1684 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on bill of rights.....1574 remarks of, in debate on report from committees on canal and canal lands and on internal improvements......352 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on judiciary,................. 1080 1033, 1041, 1056, 1092, 1094 1099, 1102, 1127, 1133, 1145 remarks of; in debate on report from committee on legislative depart ment.....,......,,.... 5Z29 U536, 571, 624, 637, 640, 731, 732 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on military aftairss...., 861 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on miscellaneous sub jects in reference to homestead ex emptions.......................... com remai ks of, in debate on report from committee on printing and binding in recfl e ice to printing and binding conveH tion debates.............. 112 remarks of, in debate on report from co mmittec on railroad corporations1638 0~andment of; to amendment of Mr. 1659 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on schedule........... 1798 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on state, county and municipal indebtedness.....294, 835 remarks of; in debate on report from committee on township organizn e tion..............,.........881 CUMMINGS, SAMUEL C.-Continued. remarks of, in debate on resolution s in reference to oath of offlce.......................1t remarks of, in debate on resolution of Mr. Turner in reference to con vention printing...................12 9n remarks of, in debate on r esolution of Mr. Wells in reference to election of delegate to convention in place of Hon. Wm. H. Patterson, de ceased.............................. X. remarks of, on report from commit tee on miscellaneous subjects in ref erence to preparation of address to the people of the rtate............. 1731 remarks of, on resolution of instr-uc tioni to committee on printing and binding, in reference to cost of con. vention printing.................. 5... remarks of, on the subject of printing prayers offerred in convention..... 139 report from committee appointed to select committee to prepare address to the people of the state, submit ted by............................ 1.783 resolution in reference to imprison ment for debt..................... 3314 resolution in reference to monopo lies................................ 321 resolution in reference to oath to be taken by members of convention.. 590 resolution in reference to the rights of the people in regard to the inter nal government of the state....... 281 resolution of inquiry to Secretary of State, in reference to committee rooms............................. 451 resolution of instruction to commit tee on accounts and expenditures of convention, in reference to sta tionery furnished to eonvention...1416 resolution of instruction to commit tee on counties, in reference to counties and county seats......... 175 resolution of instruction to commit t(e on finance, in reference to aboI islhment of state board of equaliza tion............................... 615 resolution of instruction to commit tee on finance, in reference to ex emption from taxation............ 109 resolution of instruction to judiciary committee, in reference to railroad tariffs............................... 193 resolution of instruction to commit tee on printing and binding, in refer ence to cost of convention printing. 532 resolution of instruction to commit tee on right of suffrage, in refer ence to female suffrage 5............ 53 resolution of instruction to commit tee on right of suffrage, in refer ence to submission of female suf- 5 frage proposition.................. 532 resolution of thanks to secretaries of convention........................ 1845 substitute of, to report from commit tee on township organization...... 879 substitute of, to section 30 of report from committee on legislative de partmnent, as amended in commit tee of the whole..................... 055 CUSTODY and distribution of printed mat ter of convention, resolution of Mr. Tincher in reference to........ 389 DAILY papers to members of convention, resolution of Mr. Craig, to furn ish. It. prayer in convention, resolution of Mr. Sedgwick in reference to...... bO i i i I i INDEX. CRAIG, ALFRED M.-(,ontinued. resolution to furnish members of con vention with daily papers......... iso resolution ofinstruct;lon to committee on banks and currency to amend constitution in reference to bank leg"rlation......................... 211 resolution of instruction to judiciary committee in reference to chancery business............................ 93 CRANE, REV. MR. prayer offered by................ 365, 627 CREDIT and appropriallon, estate, co-Linty and town, resolution of Mr. H- enry iii reference to........................ 180 CRIMINALS resolution of Mi-. Vandevener In ref erence to testimony of............ 72 CRIMINAL TRIALS resolution of instruction of Mr. Ab bott to committee on judiciary, in reference to jurors and verdicts in. 615 resolution of instruction of Mr. Van deventer to committee oii bill of rights in reference to right of pris oner's counsel in.................. 321 CROSS, ROBERT J.-(a. Delegate from the Fifty-:flfth Representative District.) amend-nent of, to sections 11 and 24 of report from committee on lezis lative department.............. 670S, 540 apo,inted member of committee on legislative apportionment......... 75 appointedmember of committee on railroad co,-porat;ons.............. 75, appointed member of comi-nittee, on retrenctin,ient and re'brm.......... 75 appointed member of committee on schedule.111"1111"11"........... 75 communication in reference to rail road tariffs, in certain cases, sub mitted by......................... G'i 9 lave of absence granted to.......... 851 remarks of, on report from committee on prnting and binding in reference to furnishing rtate.maps to conven tion............................... P,81 resolution in reference to the cost of committee i-ooms.................. 510 resolution in rt,-ference to furnishing State maps to convention.......... 26,, resolution in reference to spl-ech mak iDg and voting on judiciary sut)jectIO61 resolution ofinstruction to commit tee oh judiciary in reference to the abolishment of grand juries 262 resolution of instruction to co;f tee on judiciary, in reference to prosecuting attorneys............. 211 resolution of-idstruction to commit tee on legislative department in reference to General Assemb!y..... 211 resolution of instruct-!on to commit tee on revenue, in reference to ex emption of certain lands from tax tion............................... 481 CROUCH Floyd, elected:flrst assistant door keeper of convention.............. ,CUMMIN(-,S, gkMUEL C.-(a Delegate f.,-om the 35th Representative District.) additional l,ne to section 33 of report from comittee on legislative de partmedc, offered by............... 608 amendment of, in reference to num ber of newspapers to be furnished to members of convention......... roO amendaent of, to amendment of Ntr. Hart to E ection 27 of report from committee on judiciary, as amend ed in committee of the wliole...... 1468 amendment of, to amendment of Mr. Tut)bs to section 2 of report from committee on misceliane US COI'PO ratiODS in reference to warehouses, as amended in committee of the whole............................. 1698 a endment of, to section 14 of report from committee on bill of rights,.. 1574 1.575 DAMAGES committed by animals, memorip.1 in. reference to....................... 87% Dr,TH of Hon. 11. W. Billings, announce ment of..... 1446 of Hon. C h a s. s' u''n e, ment of........ ..1334 of Hon. A. 6., kf;p"a,t;ii, announ e ment of....'..... l28 OfHon. Wm. ii.'it'e'r's'oD,"aiiunce nietit of........................... 195 of Hon. II. W. Billings remarki3 on an,nouccement of.......... 1446 to 14,51 of Ilon. Charles Emmerson, remll",ks on announcement oil...... 1334.,to 1M INDEX. 45~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ DEB ATE-Continued. on report from committees on canal and canal lands and on internal iam provements.................. 310 to 479 -on report from committees on canal and canal lands and on internal irm provements, as amended in com- mittee of the whole.......... 484 to 487 on report from committee on coun ties........................ 1324 to 1367 on report from committee on coun ties, as amended in committee of the whole.................. 1502 to 1557 on report from committee on educa tion...................... 1732 to 1745 on report from committee on educa tion, as amended in committee of the whole............... 1745 to 1761 on report from committee on elector al and representative reform.1726 to 1730 on report from committee on execu tive department.............. 745 to 826 on report from committee on execu tive departmeit, as amended in committee of the whole....1369 to 1388 on report from committee on federal relations................... 1764 to 1771 on report from committee on finance.1771 1772, 1783 to 1787 on report from committee on future amendments............... 1309 to 1318 on report from committee on future amendments, as amended in com mittee of the whole........ 1591 to 1595 on report from committee on judicia ry.......................t 974 to 1228 on report from committee on judi ciary, as amended in committee of the whole.................. 1393 to 1501 on report firom committee on legisla tive department............. 490 to 743 on report fi-om committee on legisla tive department, as amended in committee of the whole...... 917 to 972 on report from committee on milita ry affairs.................... 860 to 866 on report from conmmittee on mines and mineral interests in reference to the protection of the lives of miners...................... 264 to 276 on report lfrom committee on mines and mineral interests in refer ence to the protection of the lives of miners, resolution of Mr. Turner in reference to limitation of.......... 274 on report from committee on miscella neous corporations......... 1664 to 1669 on report from committee on miscella neous corporations, as amended in committee of the whole............1702 on report from committee on miscel laneous corporations in reference to warehouses.............. 1622 to 1637 on report fl om committee on miscel laneous corporations in reference to warehouses, as amended in com mittee of the whole........1693 to 1701 on report from committee on miscel laneous subjects in reference to ho somestead exemptions.......895 to 912 on report from committee on miscel- - laneous subjects in reference to homestead exemptions, as amended in committee of the whole.........1689 to 1692 DEATH-Continued. of I-Ion. A. G. Kirkpatrick, remarks on announcement of....... 122S to 1230 of Hon. W. H. Patterson, remarks on announ( ement of.............. 195, 196 of Hon. II. W. Billings, resol ution of Mr. Springer, of condolence, in ref erence to................ 1446 of Heo n, Cha rles Emmers on, resolu tion of Mr. Harwood, of condo lence, in reference to.............. 1334 of Hon. A. G. Kirkpatrick, resolution of Mr. Craig, of condolence, in ref erence to................ 1228 of Hon. Wm'. I Patterson, resolution of Mr. Goodell, of condolence, in reference to....................... 195 on report from committee on munici pal corporations...........1669 to 1676 on report from committee on munici pal corporations, as amended in committee of the whole...1723 to 1725 on report from committee on print ing and binding in reference to con stitution and address, &e...1846 to 1848 on report tfrom committee on print- ing and binding in reference to cor rection of speeches.............. 1P8 on report from committee on print itg and binding in reference to fur nishing manuals to convention.... 145 146 in reference to election of d oor keeper, and assistant doorkeeper of convention........................52, 53 in rel'ertice to election of postmaster and assistant postmaster of conven tion.............................53, 54 in committee of the whole, resolu tion of Mr. Wheaton in reference to limitation of.................... 613 on additional standing rules........ 78, 79 on article in reference to municipal subscriptions to capital stock of private corporations...... 1234 to 1242 on article in reference to municipal subscriptions to capital stock of private corporations, as amended in committee of the whole........ 1730 on motion of Mr. Church to refer to committee on judiciary, his resolt tion in reference to control of rail roads in respect to rates of trans portation..................... 149, 150 on motion of Mr. Church to l ef,:r to committee of the whole, substitute offered by himself to portion of reports from committees on canal and canal lands and on internal im provements.................. 383 to 836 on report from committee on batks and currency.............. 1678 to 1.685 on report from committee on banks and currency, as amended in com mittee of the whole........1685 to 1688 on report fi'om committee on bill of rights..................... 1558 to 1590 on report fronr conmmittees on Skill of rights and miscellaneous subjects, in reference to preamble....... 231 to 235, 2Nto 278 on report from committee on print ing and binding in reference to fur nishing newspapers to convention. 129 to 13 o on report from committee on print ing and binding in reference to printing and binding convention debates.......... 101 to 113, 118 to 125r on leport from committee on print ing and binding in reference to printing journal, laws, &c....245 to 256 I . INDEX. 45 DEBATF,-Continued. on report from committee on railroad corporations............... 1637 to 166t on report from committee on railroad corporations, as amended in com mittee of the whole........ 1708 to 1723 on report from committee on re trenchment and reform in reference to convention and assembly ex penc-es since 1862............. 226 to 230 237 to 245 on report from committee on rev enuc.......... 1196 to 1202, 11242 to 1280 on report front c-omnaittee on revenue, as amended in committee of the whole......... 1597 to 1621, 1774 to 1776 on rep ort from committee on revis ion apd adjustment on article on judiciary................... 1810 to 1813 on report from committee on revision and adjustment on articles on pre amble, distribution of powers, boundaries, bill of rights, legisla tive and executive.......... 1776 to. 1783 on report from committee on revis ion and adjustment on articles on i;uff,i,a-e, education, revenue, coun ties, corporations, militia, canals and warehouses............ 1834 to 1840 on report from committee on revision and adjustment on rchedule.... 1849 to 18514 on report from committee on right of suffrage..................... 12,80, 12.81 on report from committee on right of r,tiffrage, as amended in committee of the whole............... 1281 to 1309 on report from committee on roads and internal navigation...... 883 to 894 on report from committee on rules of convention...................... 59, 60 on report frol-n committee on sched ule........................ 1791 to 1810 on report from committee on rched ule, as amended in committee of the whole.................. 1819 to 1832 on report fi,om committee on state, county and municipal indebtedness 214 to 222, 284 to 305, 833 to ll DEBATES of convention, debate on report from committee on printing and binding in reference to pi-intin,,,, and bind ing................ 101 to 113, 118 to 125 debate on the subject of p)-intiiig... 9, 90 remarksinreference to printing...,,.1030 11031 remarks on report from committee on printing and b",Ddirg in reference to index to, &c.................... 1865 report from committee on printing and binding in reference to index to, &-c................................ 1865 ,of convention, report from committee on printing and binding, in refer ence to printing and bindi,,ig...ioi, 118 resolution of Mr. Ellis to allow adcli tio.nal copies of, to members of convention.................. 182 resolution of -.Mr. Hanna:1'n"r'eijrence to prl:.aiiniz........................ 90 resolution of Mr. Hay in reference to printing........................... 90 resolution of Mr. Sedgwick in refer ence to furnishing niemt)ers of con'ventiou with additional copies of..13'oD to newspapers, resolution of Mr. skinner in reference to furnishing.. 236 resolution of Mr. Skinner, in refer ence to furnishing to newspapers.. 213 resolution of Mr. Wagner iu refer ence to painting.................. 987 resolution of Mr. Wells in reference to printin......................... 987 further publication of, resolution of instruction of Mr. Anderson to committee on accounts and expend itures ofconvention, in reference to.1190 resolution ef instruction of Mr. Weridling to committee on printing nd biddiiig, in reference to print ing of in German.................. 213 on report from committee on state, county and municipal indebtedness, as amended in committee, of the whol....................... 1256 to 126* on rport from committee on town ship organization............ 873 to 882 on resolutions in reference, to oath of office........................... 9 to 49 on resolution of Mr. Allen of Craw ford, authorizing committee on lez islat've department to eraploa clerk............... 113 to, 116 on resolution of Mr. Allen of Craw ford, in reference to printing veto messages..................... 151 to 152 on resolution of Mr. Anthony, in ref erence to state and national govern ment........................:... 98, 99 on resolution of Mr. Browning, in ref erence to afternoon sessions of con vention............ 282 to 284 on resolution oii4i."6,hu'rch to adopt rule 49, in reference to the eff-(,ct of tabl' amendments......... 183 to 188, on resol'6tion of Mr. Craig to furnish members of convention with daily papers................. t; 181 on resolution of Mr. English in refer ence to adjourmment............ 86, 8T on resolution of Mr. English, in ref erence to recess of convention..... 828 to 832 DEBATE, on resolution of Mr. Parks in refer ence to furnishing stationery to members of convention.. I I 11 "65, 06 on resolution of Mr. Peirce in refer ence to reports of standing commit tees......................... 258 to 260 on resolution of Mr. Snyder in refer-, ence to furnishing newspapers to members of convention....:. -60 to CS on resolution- of Mr. Turner in reer ence to convention printing..94 to 96 on resolution of Mr. Wa-uer in j-(fer ence to committee rooms.... 488 to 4,DO on resolution of Mr. Wastiburn in reference to printing resolutions..88, on resolution of Mr. Wells, in refer ence to election of delegate in place of Hon. W. H. Patterson, deceased - 101 I I p to 209 46 JDEX. DEBATE-Continued. on motion of Mr. Church, to refer to committee on judiciary, his resolu tion in reference to control of rail roads in respect to rates of trans cortation...................... 149, 150 on motion of Mr. Church to refer to committee of the whole his substi tute to portion of reports from com mittees on canaland canal lands and on internal improvements..... 333 to 336 on report from committee on banks and currency, as amended in com mittee of the whole........ 1685 to 1688 on report from committee on bill of rights.................... 1558 to 1590 o n report from committees on bill of rights and miscellaneous subjects, in reference to preamble.....276 to 278 on report from committees on canal and canal lands and on internal irnm provements, as amended in com-n mittee of the whole........... 484 to 487 on report from committee on coun ties, as amended in committee of the whole................. 1502 to 1557 on report from committee on educa tion, as amended in committee of the whole.................. 1745 to 1761 on report from committee on elector al and representative reform....1726 to 1730 on report from committee on execu tive department, as amended in committee of the whole....1369 to 1388 on report from committee on federal relations................... 1764 to 1771 on report from committee on finance.1771 1772, 1783 to 1787 on report from committee on future amendments, as amended in com-r n mittee of the whole........ 1591 to 1595 on report from committee on judicia ry, as amended in committee of the whole.................... 1393 to 1501 on report from committee on legis lativedepartment, as amended in committee of the whole..... 917 to 972 on report from committee on mines and mineral interests, in reference to the protection of the lives of miners....................... 273 to 276 on report from committee on miscel laneous corporations, as amended in committee of the whole........ 1702 on report fromn committee on miscel laneous corporations, in reference to warehouses, as amended in com mittee of the whole........1693 to 1701 on report from committee on miscel laneous subjects, in reference to homestead exemptions, as amended in committee of the whole..1689 to 1692 on report from committee on munici pal corporations, as amended in committee of the whole.... 1723 to 1725 on report from committee on print ing and binding, in reference to constitution and address, etc....1846 to 1848 on report from committee on prin ting and binding in reference to correc tion of speeches................... 168 on report from committee on printne. 19 ting and binding in reference to fur nishing manual to convention..145, 146 on report from committee on printing and binding in reference to furnish ing newspapers to convention. 12. o.....resolution 129 to 134 on report from committee on printing and binding in reference to printing annd binding convention debates... 101 to 125 on report from committee on printing and binding in reference to printing journal, laws, &c............245 to 256m on report from committee on rail road corporations, as amended in committee of the whole....1708 to 1723 - on report from committee on re trenchment and refbrm, in refer- - ence to convention and assembly expenses since 1862.............226 to 330, 237 to 245 IN CONVENTION in reference to election of doorkeeper and assistant doorkeeper of conven tion............................. 52, 53 in reference to election of postmaster and assistant postmaster of conven tion'.... 53, 54 on additional standing rules of'...78, 79 on articlein reference to municipal subscription to capital stock of pri -rate corporations, as amended in committee of the whole.... *...... 1730 DEBATE-Continued. on report from committee on rev ision and adjustmen t o on articles on pre - amble, distribution of powers, boun daries, billtof rights, legislature and executive................. 1776 to 1783 on report from committee on revision and adjustment on articles on suf. frage, education, revenue, counties, corporations, militia, canals and warehouses................ 1834 to 1840 on report from committee on revision and adjustment on schedule.1849 to 1859 on report from committee on right of suffrage, as amended in committee of the whole.............. 1281 to 1309 on report from committee on rules of convention............59, 60 on report from committee on sched ule, as amended in committee of the whole.................. 1819 to 1832 on report from committee on State, county and municipal indebted ness, as amended in committee of the whole.......... 1256 to 1260 on resolutions in reference to oath of office............................ 9 to 49 on resolution of Mr. Allen, of Craw ford, authorizing committee on legislative department to employ clerk........................ 113 to 116 on resolution of Mr. Allen, of Craw ford, in reference to printing veto messages....................151 to 1.53 on resolution of Mr. Anthony in reference to State and national gov ernment........................98, 99 on resolution of Mr. Browning in ref ence to afternoon sessions of con vention...................... 282 to 284 on resolution of Mr. Church to adopt rule 49, in reference to the effect of tabling amendments...... 183 to 188 on resolution of Mr. Craig to furnish members of convention with daily papers...................... 180 to 182 on resolution of Mr. English in refer ence to adjournment........... 86, 87 on resolution of Mr. English in refer ence to recess of convention..8?.6 to 832 on resolution of Mr. Parks in refer ence to furnishing stationery to members of convention......... 65, 66 on resolution of Mr. Peirce in refer ence to reports of standing com mittees.....................258 to 260 on resolution of Mr. Snyder in refer ence to furnishing newspapers to members of convention...... 60 to (6 on resolution of Mr. Turner in refer ence to convention printing...94 to 96 on resolution of Mr. Wagner in refer ence to committee rooms.... 488 to 490 on resolution of Mr. Washburn in reference to printing resolutions 88, 89 on resolution of Mr. Wells in refer ence to election of delegate to con vention, in place of lIon. Wm. H-. Patterson, deceased......... 197 to 209 on resolution of Mr. Wells to rescind resolution of inquiry of Mr. Fox to Auditor of State, in reference to ex2 penses of general assembly since 1862, and of constitutional conven tion of 1862................. 80 and 81 on resolution of Mr. Wendling in ref erence to ratification of amend ments to federal constitution.161 to 166 on resolution of inquiry of Mgr. An thony, to Auditor of State, in refer cnce to railroads.............. 912 to 9145 on resolultion of inquiry of Mr. Fox to State Auditor in reference to ex penses of General Assembly since 1862............. 68 to..7b on resolution of instruction of Mr. Allen, of Crawford, to committee on revenue in reference to taxation of church property used for other than religious p~urposes............ 223 to 225 on the sulbject of convention print ing.......1178 to 1183, 1203 to 1207 on the subject of printing debates of 89 on the subject of printing prayers of fered in convention............ 168 to 172 on the subject of recess of convention 866 to 873 on report from committee on reve nue. as amended in committee of the whole..... 1597 to 1621, 1774 to 1776 on report from committee on revision and adjustment, on article on judi ciary..................... 1810 to 1813 46 INDEX. DEBATE-Continued. on resolution of Mr. Wells, to rescind resolution of inquiry of Mr. Fox to Auditor of State, in reference to expenses of general assembly since 1862, and of constitutional conven tion'of 1862...................... 80, Sl on resolution Qf Mr. Wendling in ief- - erence to ratification of amend ment,s to federal constitution..... 161 to 166 on resolution of inquiry of Mr. An thony to Auditor of State, in refer ence to railroads............. 912 to 915 on resolution of inquiry of Mr. Fox to State Auditor, in reference to expenses of general assembly since 1862........................... 68 to 70 on resolution of instruction of Mr. Allen, of Crawford, to committee on revenue, in reference to taxation of church property used for other than religious purposes...... 223 to 225 on the subject of convention print iD...... i- -1178 to 1183, 1203 to 1207 on he sujec of printiiag debates.. 89 90 on the subject of printing sprayers offered in convention...... 168 to 172 on the subject of recess of codven tion......................... 866 to 873 IN COMMITTEIM OF Tlal WIE[OLIM on article in reference to municipal subscriptions to capital stock of private corporations....... 1234 to 1242 on report from committee on banks and currency.............. 1678 to 1685 on reports from committees on bill of Fights and miscellaneous subjects in reference to preamble..... 231 to 235 on reports from committees on canal aiad canal lands and on internal im provements.................. 310 to 479 on report from committee on coun ties........................ 1324 to 1367 on report from committee on educa tion....................... 1732 to 1745 on yeport from committee on execu tive department............. 745 to 826 on report from committee on future amendments............... 1309 to 1318 on report from committee on judicia ry...................... 1..97 to 122S on yeport from ' mmittee on legisla tive department............ 490 to 743 on report from committee on inilita ry iiffairr..................... 860 to 866 on report from committee on mines and mineral interests, in reference to the protection of the lives of miners...................... 264 to 273, on report from committee on miscel. laneous corporatioas....... 1664 to 1669 on report from committee on miscel laneous corporations, in reference to warehouses............. 16P,2 to 1637 on report from committee on miscel laneous subjects, in reference to homestead exemptions....... 895 to 912 on report from committee on munici pal corporations... 1669 to 1676 on report from Icomm:liie' 'ailroad corporations................ 1637 to 1664 on report from committee on reve nue......... 1196 to 1202, 1242 to 1280 ort from committee on roads on reanlinternal navigation...... 883 to 894 on report from committee on right of suffrae................ -i28O, 1281 on report from committee;'n'sched ule........................ 1791 to 1810 on report from committee on state,V".-. county and municipal indebtedness 214 to 2,9,2, 284 to 305, 833 to 851 on report from committee on town ship organization............ 873 to SSP, on resolution of Mr. Wheaton, in ref erence to limitation of debate in.... 613 DEBT resolution of Mr. Cummings in refer. ence to imprif3onment fo*......... 334 ! ~ DEBT-ontiued.DEMET, JHN-Cntinud DEENT,JOHNContnued DEMENT, JOHN-Continued. appointed member of committee on miscellaneous corporations........ 75 appointed member of committee on right of suffrage................... 75 elected president pro tern. of conven tion.............................6 er 6 leave of absence granted to........ vi ssosfoei... 194 majority report from committee on right of suffrage, submitted by.... 157 855 petition in reference to warehouse and railroad frauds, submitted by.. 627 presentation to the president on be half of pages of convention, by...1029 remarks of, in debate in convention on report fromn committee on coun ties, as amended in committee of the whole.........................1511 remarks of; in debate in convention oni report from committee on judi ciary, as amended in committee of the whole......................... 1409 1419, 1420, 1421, 1427, 1428, 1434, 1462 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on legis lative department, as amended in committee of the whole...919, 939, 956 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on mis cellaneous corporations, in refer en ce to warehouses, as amended in committee of the whole...........9 1696 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on revis ion and adjustment, on schedule...181 easooneo fr 1851 1853, 1856 DEMENT, JOHN-Continued. remarks of, in debate on resolution of Mr. English in r eference to re cess of convention................. 827 remarks of, in reference to amend ment of rules...................... 1369 remarks of, in reference to holding evening sessions of convention... 375 remarks of, in reference to order of business........................... 336 remarks of, in reference to recess of convention..................... 736, 799 remarks of, in reference to repeal of rule in regard to presentation of resolutions........................ 895 remarks of, on article in reference to future appropriations for state house.............................. 1320 remarks of, on article on distribution of the powers of the state govern ment.............................. 279 remarks of, on communication from Auditor of Public Accounts in ref erence to railroads, etc............ 1527 remarks of, on election of president pro tem........................... 1, 2 remarks of, on election of as presi dent pro tern.................. 6 remarks of, on question of privilege. 10.52 1053 DEBT-C ontinued. resolution of Mr. Wall in reference to sale of property for................ 615 DECEASED remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on right of suffrage, as amended in commit tee of the whole...1282, 1284, 1285,1294 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on state, county and municipal indebtedness, as amended in committee of the whole.............................1259 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on bill of rights........5 1569 remarks of, in debate on reports from committees on bill of rights and miscellaneous subjects, in reference to preamble...................... 235 remarks of,in debate on reports from committees on canal and canal lands and on internal improvements..... 396 418, 419, 420, 421, 455, 467 DEMENT, JOHN-(a Delegate from the For ty-ninth Representative District.) amendment of, to amendment of Mr. Cody to section 1 of report from committee on right of suffrage, as amended in committee of the whole............................. 1289 amendment of, to report from com mittee on re trenchment and re form, in reference to convention and assembly expenses since 1862.. 237 amendment of, to resolution ofin struction of Mr. Goodhue to con. mittee on revision and adjustment, in reference to section 6 of article on right of suffrage............... 1652 amendment of, to resolution of Mr. McCoy in reference to further con sideration of report of committee on State, county and municipal in debtedness........................ 273 amendment of, to rule 53........... 1369 amendment of, to sections 11, 16 and 26 of report from committee on ju diciary................. 1033, 1023, 1108 amendment of, to sections 5, 12 and 16 of report from committee on ju diciary, as amended in committee of the whole........... 1419, 1434, 1462 amendment of, to section 4 of report from committee on legislative de partment......................... 697 amendment of, to sections 4 and 5 of report from committee on legisla tive department, as amended in committee of the wh,ie........ 940, 941 ,amendment of, to section 9 of report from committee on schedule...... 1800 amendment of, to section 12 of sched ule, as reported by committee on revision and adjustment.......... 18.58 appointed member of committee on accounts and expenditures of con vention........................... 93 appointed member of executive com mittee............................. 75 appointed member of committee on judicial divisions of the state...... 1103 appointed member of committee on manufactures and agriculture... 75 I 13 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on executive depart ment.......................... 799, 817 remarks of, iu debate on report from committee on future amendments..1313 1315 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on judiciary.976, 1018, 1019 1020, 1023, 1033, 1101, 1108, 1109, 1140 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on legislative depart ment........................518, 551 554, 570, 607, 634, 644, 648, 692, 697, 785 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on mines and mineral interests, in reference to the pro tection of the lives of miners..271, 275 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on miscellaneous sub jects, in reference to homestead ex emptions............. 898, 908, 909, 910 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on printing and bind ing, in reference to furnishing news papers to convention......129, 132. 133 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on retrenchment and re form, in reference to convention and assembly expenses since 1862.. 230 237, 241, 243, 244 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on revenue............. 1244 1250, 1262, 1264, 1266, 1276 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on schedule.......1800, 1802 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on state, county, and municipal indebtedness............ 844 remarks of, in debate on resolution of Mr. Church to adopt rule 49, in reference to the effect of tabling amendments...................185, 186 remarks of, in debate on resolution of Mr. English in reference to ad journment........................ 87 INDEX. 47 and resigning members ofconvention, resolu, ion of Mr. Snyder in refer ence to pay of..................... 987 DEFENDANT in courts of law or equity, resolution of Mr. Church in reference to the state as......:' I' I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I 117 DELEGATE to convention, in place of Hon. Wm. H. Patterson, deceased, resolution of Mr. Anthony in reference to elec tion of............................ 208 to convention, in place of Ron. Wm. H. Patterson, deceased, resolution of Mr. Church in reference to elec tion of............................ 198 to convention, in place of Ron. A. G. Kirkpatrick, deceased, resolution of Mr. Craig in reference to election of................................. 1231 to convention, in place of Hon. B. W. Henry, resigned, resolution of Mr. Hanna in reference to election of..1031 to convention, in place of Hon. Wm. 1-1. Patterson, deceased, resolution of Mr. Rice in reference to election of........................ 200 to convention, in place oi'ii. Wm. H. Patterson, deceased, resolution of Mr. Truesdale in reference to elec tion of. .......................... 198 to convention, in place of Hon. Wm. 11. Patterson, deceased, resolution of Mr. Wells in reference to election of................................. 197 remarks of, on report from commit tee on accounts and expenditures of convention, in reference to pay ofjanitors......................... 653 remarks of, on report from commit tee on revision and adjustment, in reference to section one of report from committee on r,-uffrae, as amended in committee, 'f the whole........................ 1529, 1530 remarks of, on resolution of Mr. Al len, of Crawford, to appoint com mittee to prepare rules of conven tion.......... 51 remarkf, of, on reso ion o *r. Henry in reference to furnishing newspapers to members of conven tion............................... 62 remarks of, on resolution of Mr. Sedgwick in reference to furnish ing newspapers to members of con vention........................... 126 remarks of, on resolution of Mr. Sny der in reference to furnishing neWS papers to members of convention. 57 remarks of, on resolution of inquiry to Secretary of State, in reference to ex pedses of two last sessions of Gen eral Assembly..................... 91 remarks. of, on resolution of instruc tion of Mr. Goodhue to committee on revision and adjustment, in ref erence to section 6 of article on right of suffrage.................. 1662 remarks of, on the subject of the spe cial order, in reference to certain reports............................ 41,;3 remarks of, on submission of report ot committee on right of suffrage. 159 1514 DELIVERY of constitution to Assistant Secreta ry of'State, by the president....... 1870 of printed copies of reports of stand lug committees resolution of Mr. Wheaton in reference to........... 194 remarks of, on submission of statis ties, in reference to cost of Illinois and Michigan canal................ 366 resolution in reference to use of hall of representatives for lecture...... 1392 resolution of inquiry to Auditor of Public Accounts, in reference to ex penses of 25th and 26th General Assemblies..................... I... 263 resolution of inquiry to Secretary of State, in reference to expenses of two last sessions of General Assem bly.i... 91. -— i:...................... resolu ion o instruction to commit tee on finance, in reference to tax ing lands of Illinois Central rail road.............................. 116substitute of, to section 9 of report from committee on bill of righfs...156% substitute of, to section 24 of report from committee on legislative de partment.......................... 554 DISTRIBUTION of committee reports, remarks on the subject'of..................... 308 of committee reports, resolution of Mr. English in reference to.. 308 ,of the powers of the State govern ment, remarks on article on..#.... 27a 8 INDEX EDUCATION- report from committee on revision and adjustment on article on...... 1831 ELDREDGE, JOHN S.-(a Delegate from the Forty-fourth Representative District.) additional section to report from. committee on municipal corpora tions, as amended in committee of the whole, offered by.............. 1724 amendment of, to additional sectiona eci of report from committee on courn. ties, offered by Mr. Hay...........13M amendment of, to amendment of Mr. Cross to section 1 of report from committee on c ounties............124...........18 amendment of, to section 2 of report from committee on counties....... 1328 amendment of, to section 4 of report fr omnt commi ttee on judiciary......1212 amendment of, to section 4 of report from committee on judiciary, as amended in committee of the whole............................. 142X amendme,nt of, to section 7 of repot t from committee on miscellaneous corporations, in reference to ware houses............................ 1635 amendment of, to section 1 of report from committee on icrenue, as amended in comnmittee of the whole............................. 1615 amendment of, to section 29 of re port from committee on sched ule................................ 1805 amendment of, to section 2 of report from committee on state, county and municipal indebtedness, as amended in committee of the whole.............................1255 appointed member of juadiciary com mittee............................ 75 appointed member of committee oIa miscellaneous corporations........ 75 appointed member of committee on state institutions and public build ings................................. 75 article on counties, submitted by.... 151 communication in reference to the LaSalle miners, submitted by..... 306 leave of absence granted to........ 195 483, 509, 894 DISTRIBUTION-Continued. of-the powers of the State govern ment, report from committee on bill of rights, in reference to....... 281 of powers of State government, re port from committee on revision and adjustment on article on...... 1776 and publication of proceedings of convention, resolution of Mr. Bux ton in reference to................. 62 and publication of proceedings of convention, resolution of Air. Hay in reference to.................... 64 appointment of.................... 75.... article in reference to establishment of State university, referred to............... 194 communication in reference to cer -tain amendments to constitution, referred to..................4...... 262 communication in reference to the establishment of public libraries, referred to........................ 451 a communication in reference to State university, referred to............. 236i communication in reference to use of bible in common schools, referred to................................. 745 communication from Illinois Confer- jnce of the M. E. Church, on the c subject of sectarian appropriations, referred to............... 118 debate on report from......1732 to 1745 debate in convention on report from, as amended in committee of the whole..................... 1745 to 1761. memorial in reference to proposed State university, referred to....... 259 petition in reference to use of bible in common schools, referred to.... 251f 344, 389, 479, 510, 613, 629 679, 702, 1036, 1103, 1129 DIVISION of counties, petition in reference to.. 306 389, 589 of counties, protest in relation to.... 280 of Cook county, petition in reference to...........................365, 851 and formation of counties, petition in reference to....................... 451 judicial, of the state, appointment of committee on..................... 1103 judicial, of the state, resolution of Mr. Medill in reference to.......... 1010 Judicial, of state, resolution of in struction of,Mr. Buxton to commit tee on judicial circuits, in reference to................................ 12 i7 report from, submitted by Mr. Parks.1389 report from, referred to committe on revision and adjustment........... 1761 resolution of Mr. Allen, of Alexan der, in reference to establishment of State university, referred to.... 116 resolution of Mr. Anthony in refer ence to common schools, referred to............................... 95 resolution of Mr. Brown in reference to the encouragement of learning, referred t o........................ 211 resolution of Mr. Buxton in reference to control of school funds, referred t o................................. 127 resolution of Mr. Goodell in reference to buncombe. referred to..:.I. 758 resolution of Mr. Merriam in ref'er ence to the maintenance of a State University, referred to............. 193 resolution o, Parker to amend consti- 0 tution in reference to free schools, referred t o........................ 212 resolution of Mr. Rice to prohibit school officers from publishing school books, etc., referred to..... 193 resolution of Mr. Underwood in refer ence to educational appropriations and donations, referred to......... 138 resolution of Mr. Underwood in ref erence to protection in public wor ship, referred to —. —.................. 138 1 resolution of Mr. Snyder in reference A to corporal punishment in schools referred to........................ 1078 resolution of Mr. Springer in refer once to free schools, refrred to... 176 resolution of Mr. Wagner in reference to common schools, referred to.... 2 61 resolution of inquiry of Mr. Moore to Superintendent of Public Instruc- tions in reference to school statis ticts, referred to...................- 193 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Haines, of Lake, in reference to public school fund................. 281 c resolution of instruction to, of Mr. n Springer, in reference to election of School Superintendent....8 rm......... 758 t resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Wagner, to amend constitution in a reference to school system of State 179 DIVORCES and pardoning power, communica tion in reference to................ 17 resolute on of Mr. Bayne in reference to................................. 91 resolution of Mr. Browning in reter ence to........................ 128 resolution of Mr. Wagner in refer enceto............................ 282 petition in reference to the division of counties, submitted by...... 389, 589 petition in reference to the formation and division of counties, submitted by................................ 451 petition in reference to the formation of a home legislature, submitted by................................ 156 petition in reference to the location of railroad offices, submitted by.... 4.51 petition in reference to railroad and warehouse frauds, submitted by... 560 589, 627, 679, 70F DONATIONS and appropriations, educational, res olution of Mr. Underwood in refer ence to............................ 139 DOORKEEPER- resolution of Mr. Anthony authoriz ing, to procure necessary articles.. 81 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Wells in reference to ink.......... 429 remarks of, in debate in convention on resort from committee on mis cella neous co rporations, in refer ence to warehouses, as amended in committee of the whole........... 1695 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on mu nicipal corporations, as amended in committee of the whole...........1724 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on rev enue, as amended in committee of the whole......................... 1615 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on revis ion and adjustment on schedule...185S remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on state, county and municipal indebted ness, as amended in committee of the whole......................... 1253 remarks of, in debate on report from committees on canal and canal lands and on internal improvements..... 46 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on judiciary............ 1071 1078, 1079, 1108, 1212 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on mines and mineral in terests in reference to the protec tion of the lives of miners.......... 206 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on miscellaneous cor porations, in reference to ware houses............................ 1629 remarks of, in debate on resolution of Mr. Wells in reference to election of delegate to convention in place of Hon. Wmn. H. Patterson, deceased. 24 DRAWING OF SEATS resolution of Mr. Anthony in refer ence to............................. 28 appropriations and donations, resolu tion of Mr. Underwood in reference to.................................nf 139 EARNINGS OF THE ILLINOIS CENTRAL RAILROAD communication from Auditor of State in reference to..................... 101 Since June 11, 1S86, resolution of Mr. Pillsbury requesting information from Auditor of State ir reference to.......................f........ 80 EFFECT of motion to adjourn, remarks in ref ere nce to....................1548, 1549 of tabling amendments resolution of Mr. Church to adopt rule 49 in ref erence to......................... 184 i I I II II i i I I I I I I i I INDEX. 48 EDUCATION, COIIMITTEE ON DIVORCE — additional section offered to report from committee on miscellaneous Subjects in reference to....... 1204. 1692 remarkr, on additional section offered to report lrom committee on iiiis cellaneous subjects in reference to.1207 1208 DOORKEEPERS _I)ro tei??,, of convention, election of...7 ,of convention, election of............ 52 of convention, remarks in reference to election of....................... 52, 53 DOUGLAS, STEPHEN A. and Abraham Llncol-n, complimentary resolution of Mr. Tincher in refer ence to portraits of................. 178 DRAINS communication on the subject of..... 365 1 resol-,;tion of Mr. Church in reference to................................. 262 DRAINAGE resolution of instruction of Mr. At kins to committee on bill of riahts in reference to.................. 481 I-aws and private roads, resolution of instruction of Mr. Atkins to com inittee on bill of rights in reference, to................................. 74 EDUCATIONAL - \ t.I.D.X. 4 9 ELECTION-Crintinued. of permanent officers of convention, resolution of Mr. Fox in leference to....................... 50 of postmasters of convention.....53,reference53, oi of postmasters of convention, re. marks in reference to........... 53, 54 of President pro tem. of convention. 6 1550 of'President pro tem. of convention, remarks on.................... 1 to 6 of President of convention.......... 50 of President of convention, remarks On1................... 50 of public administrator, resolution of Mr. Snyder in reference to......... 1032 of School Superintendent, resolution of instruction of Mt-. Springer to committee on education, in refer- t ence to............................ 753. of secretaries pro tem. of conven tion............................... 6s of secretaries of convention........ 51, 52 and compensation of state officers resolution of Mr. Bryan in refer-: ence to....... 83 o of supreme court j udges, remarks in; reference to............... 1799,18S0 of supreme court judges, resolution of instruction of Mr. Medill to committee on revision and adjust ment, in reference to...1... 1678 s of supreme and additional circuit court judges, resolution of instruc tion of Mr.'lIay to committee on revision and adjustment, in refer ence to.................... 1800O of town and city offieers, etc., reso lution of Mr. Anthony in reference to................................. 154 ELD)REDGE, JOHN S.-Continued. remarks of, on submission of petition in reference to railroad a nd ware house frauds................. 622 remonstrance from Stone Cutters' Association of Rock Island, in ref erence to convict labor, submitted by.................191 resolution in reference to appropria tion of private property for public u se................ 93 resolution in reference toelection of members of house of representa-; tives, & c..............151! resolution in reference to eminent do main -............... 713 resolution in reference to the fees of county clerks in certain cases............... 282 resolution in reference to the forma tion of new counties.................... 262 resolution in reference, to public high wavs.......................... 176 resolution in reference to public high ways, reported back from commit tee on roads and internal naviga tion...................... 247 resolution -in reference 0o te refer ence of amrendments, etc., to con stitution, to committees.....173, 176 resolution in reference to street rail roads........................... 151 resolution of instruction to commit tee on judiciary in reference to rail road - i............................... 8 resolution of ins ruction to commits tee on judiciary in reference to revision of State laws...................... 194 resolution of instruction to commit tee on penitentiary and reformnato ry institutions in reference to the establishment of local peniten~tir, rles..................... 177 substitute of, to section 2 of report fromt commnittee on miscel lan eouls corporations in reference to ware houses, as amended in committee of the wvhole............. I..1698 fan d bribery at elections, resolution of Mr. Wait in reference to........798 ELECTIVE OFFICERS OF CONVENTION resolution of Mr. Wright to furnish with newspapers....................... 127 in regard to railroads,, article in rer wrence to..........................269 report from committee on judiciary in reference to.......................... 703 resolution or Mr. Atkins, inl reference to................................ 858 resolution of Mr. Eldredge in refer ence to.............................. 713 resolution of Mr. Haines, of Lake, in reference to............................ 321 resolution to amend constitution in reference to..................... 180 resolution of.11. Aic y to amend cornstitution in refer ence to, report. ,ed back from committee onL roads and internal navigation...................... 257 in regard to railroads, resolution of instruction of Mr. Bromswell to commnittee on judiciary, in refer ence to.......................... 48t ELECTION of Ferris Forman, certificate of, pre sented by Mr. Wall....................... 1232l of John P. Gamble. certificate of, p es ent e d by Mr. Goodell........................ 41 of Henry Tubbs, certificatee of, pre sent-ed by the pr-esidenlt...... ~.............. 1319 ,of county offlcers, resolution of in rstruction of Mr. Bovine to commit tee on counties, in reference to.... 154 of delegate to convention in place of Hou.'-Wm. H. Patterson, deceased, resolution of Mr. Anthony in refer,ence to........................... 208 of delegate to convention in place ofi HIon. Wmn. H. Patterson, deceased, resolut~ionl of Mr. Church in refer ence to............................ 198 of delega-te to convention in place of Hon.-A. G. Kirkpatrick, resolution of Mr. Craig in reference to...... 1231 of delegate to convention in place of H~OD. B. W. Henry, resolution of Mr. Hanna in reference to................... 1031 of delega ce to convention in place of lion. Wm. II. Patterson, deceased, resolution of M~r. Rice in reference to 200............. S of dele g-a-te to..~olnlv~e~nt!OD ~ion. p~la~ce. o-f Hon. Wm. H. Patterson, deceased, resolution of Mr. True~sdale in ref erence to.......................... 198 of delegate to convention in place of Holn. Wm. H. Patterson, deceased, resolution of Mr. Wells in refer enceto......................... 197, of doorkeepers pro tenst. of conven -tion............................ 7 Of doorkeepers of convention.................... 52 of doorkeepers of convention, re marks in reference to.............. --— 52,, 53 of master in chancery, resolution of Mr. Snyder in reference to manner of..................... 92, 100,7 45: of ma,sters in el-laiicery, resolution of instruction of Mr. Wall to commit tee on revision and adjustment, ill reference to................... 1s89 of Inembers of house of YepreSCDt~a tives, etc., resolution of Mr. El dredge in reference to.................v 151 of permanent offleers of convrention, resolution of Mr. Coolbaugh in ref crence t o............... ov,49 ELECTORAL. AND REPRESENTATIVE REFORM, COMMITTEE ON appointment of..................... 75 debate on report from....... 1726 to 1730 memorial on the subject of minority representation, referred to........ 679 petition in reference to minority rep. resentation, referred to............. 703 report from, submitted bv Mr. Medill 560 report from, referred to committee on revision and adjusiment...... 1729 resolution of Mr. Eldredge in refer- M ence to election of members of house of representatives, etc., refer red to........................ 151 resolution of Mr. Robinson to amend constitution in reference to eligibil ity to office of legal voters, refer. re'd to......................... 212 resolution of Mr. Wait, in reference to elections and bribery at elections, referred to..................... 98 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. rBenjamlin, in reference to majority and minority representation....... 175 ELIGIBILITY of sheriffs to re-election, and official r fees, resolution of Mr. Sherrill, in reference to........................1 83 of sheriffs to re-election and official fees, resolution of Mr. Sherrill, in reference to, reported back from committee on township (organiza tion, and referred to committee on counties...................... 245 to office of legal voters, resolution of Mr. Robinson to amend constitu tion in reference to............... 212 E.MERSON, CHAS.-(a Delegate f.rom the Fortieth Representative District.) announcemnent of the death of..................;1334 appointed member of comrnittee on federal relations....................... 75 appointed member of judiciary com mnittee................. I........... 7S appointed member of commnittee on legislative apportiocnment................... 75 appointed member, of Committee onl EState, county and municipal indebt edness............................ 75 remarks of, in debate on resolution of Mr. I-aines, of Lake-, in refer ence to oath of office...................... 45 remarks on announcement of the death of............. 1334 to 1338 resolution of condolence of Mr. Har wcGod, in referencse to death of............... 1334 ELLIS, DAVID-(a Delegate from the Thirty-first Representative District.) appointed member of committee on tbanks and currency.............. 75 appointed member of committee on manufactures and agriculture...... 7 er fcn tnrot 75 appointed member of committee on state institutions and public build ings........................... 75 leave of absence granted to.... 533, 1009 i I INDEX. 49 ELLIS, DAVID-Continued. memorial in reference to location of national capitol. submitted by.... 211 preamble resolution and telegram n reference to location of.ti..al capital, submitted by............. 75 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on legislative depart ment......... i.......... 521 resolution in re rence o mend ments to national constitution.... 9a ,resolution in reference to the removal of county seats....: - - -.:.......... 281 resolution of instruction uo commit tee on legislature, in reference to sessions of the general assembly, and compensation of members.. 83 resolution of instruction to commi tee on revenue, in reference to tax titles.............................. 260 resolution of instruction to Secreta ry of State, in reference to articles furnished to members of conven tion.............................. m resolution to,tllow additional copies of debates to members of conven tion............................... 1 83 ELY, BURN11A.Ni AND BARTLETT resolution of Afr. Ikledill to appoint stenographers to convention...... 67 EMIGRATIONI of people of color, remarks on the C,Ubject of referr!nz to a select committee article 14, in reference to................................ 82 EMINENT DO'.NIAIN ELECTIONS EMPLOYES of convention, resolution of Mr. Neece in reference to paynient of.. 93 of convention, temporary, resolution of Mr. Snyder in reference to pay ment of.......................... 88, 93, certain. of convention, resolution of Mr. lialnes, of L,,tke, iu reference to payment of....................... 1203 certain, of convention, resolution of Mr. Turner in reference to payment of................................. 1189 extra, communication from Secreta ry of State in reference to.......... 1076 extra, rf convention, resolution of, Mr. Bromwell',n'reference to...... 101.i extra, resolution of inauirv of Mr, Moore to Secretary of'StaTte in ref erence to........................ t..Io. )3 50~~~~, _I ND,_.__EX.. - "A:t-' ENGLISH, JAMES W.-Continued. amendment of, to section one of re port from committee on right of suffrage, as amended in committee of the whole................ 1282, 1293 amendment of, to section four of re port from committee on state, county and municipal indebted ness............................... 847 amendment of, to substitute of Mr. Hanna, to section four of report from committee on state, county and municipal indebtedness....... 837 amendment of, to substitute of Mr. Neece, to section forty-three of re port from committee on legislative department........................ 695 appointed member of committee on finance........................7o 75 appointed member of committee on judicial circuits........................... 75 appointed member of committee on revision and adjustment...........1338 appointed member of committee on state institutions and public build ings............................... 75 appointed member of committee to prepare address to the people of the state....................17......1783 leave of absence granted to..........194 333, 599, 864, 1077, 1839 petition in reference to suffrage, sub mitted by......................... 531 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on legis lative department, as amended in committee of the whole........ 955, 963 remarks of, in debate on article in reference to municipal subscription to capital stock of private corpora tions..,...................1236........1236 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on counties.. 13,39, 1340, 1365 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on education.....1733, 1735 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on executive depart ment............................. 7S5 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on judiciary........ 975,1010 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on legislative depart ment........515, 547. 660, 707, 725, 728 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on retrenchment and reform, in reference to convention and assembly expenses since 1862.. 238 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on revenue.............1271 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on state, county and municipal indebtedness......... 837, 847 remarks of, in debate on resolution in reference to recess of convention. 827 830 EMnPLOYES-C ontinued. and members of convention, resolu tion of Mr. McDowell in reference toper diem of..................... 1178 unnecessary, of convention, remarks of Mr. Parks in reference to the adoption of report from committee on accounts and expenditures of convention, in reference to........ 1231 unnecessary, of convention, report from committee on accounts and ex penditures of convention, in refer ence to............................ 1230 unnecessary, of convention, resolu tion of Mr. Moore in reference to...1230 unnecessary. of convention, resolu tion of instruction of Mr. Cross to committee on accounts and expen ditures of convention, in reference "to................................. 1178 ESTABLISHMENT of bureau.of agriculture, etc., resolu tion of Mr. Anthony in reference to 153 of congressional districts, resolution of instruction of Mr. Hildrup to committee on judiciary in reference to................................. 192 of local courts, resolution of instruc tion of Mr. Billings to judiciary committee in reference to......... 78 of local penitentiarie s, res olution of instruction of Mr. Eldredge to com mittee on penitentiary and reform atory institutions in reference to... 177 of a military school, resolution of in struction of Mr. Wait to committee on military affairs in reference to.. 194 of public libraries, communication in reference to....................... 451 of state bureau of statistics, commu nication from State Agricultural Society in reference t o............. 128 of state bureau of statistics, remarks on communication from State Agri cultural Society in reference to.... 128 129 of a state printing office, resolution of instruction of Mr. Rice to commit tee on printing and binding in ref erence to........... 745 of state university, article in refer ence t o............................ 194 of state university, resolution of Mr. Allen, of Alexander, in reference to................................. 116 remarks of, on resolution of inquiry to county clerks in reference to railroads...................... 182 resolution in reference to adjourn ment........................... 86, 987 resolution in reference to distribution of committtee reports............. 308 resolution in reference to female an d negro suffrage..................... 212 resolution in reference to per dtem during recess of convention....... 1860 resolution in reference to preparation of address to the people of the State............................. 1677 resolution in reference to recess of convention........................ 726 resolution in reference to recess of convention, called up and debated on..................... 826 to 832 resolution instructinz secretary of convention to deliver to committee on finance, certain letters received from county clerks in reference to railroads etc...................... 260 resolution of inquiry to county clerks in reference to railroads........... 182 substitute of, to section 11 of report from committee on legislative de partment......................... 515 ENGLISH, JAMES W.-(a Delegate from the Twenty-third Representative District.) amendment of, to additional section offered by Mr. Hay to report from t committee on counties.............1365 amendment of, to additional section offered by Mr. Hayes to report from committee on municipal corpora tions.............................. 1676 amendment of, to additional section offered by Mr. Hayes to report from committee on railroad corpor ations.............................1659 amendment of, to amendment of Mr. Atkins to section 1 of report from committee on judiciary............ 984 amendment of, to amendment of Mr. Wright, to section 6 of majority re port from committee on colinties..1339 amendment of, to article in reference to subscriptions to capital stock of private corporations...............1236 amendment of, to line 12 of section 33 of report from committte on leg islative department.......... 587, 588 amendment of, to resolution in refer ence to recess of convention...... 831 amendment of, to section six of report from committee on counties....... 1333 amendment of, to section eight of re port from committee on counties, as amended in committee of the whole............................. 1518 amendment of to section sixteen of report from committee on execu tive department................... 785 amendment of, to section three of report from committee on legisla tive department................... 507 amendment of, to sections thirty and thirty-five of report from commit tee on legislative department, as amended in committee of the whole. 953 963 amendment of, to section five of re port from committee onj,evenue..1271 ENGLISH LANGUAGE communication in reference to use of by physicians and lawyers........ 280 communication in reference to use of by physicians and lawyers, report ed back from committee on miscel laneous subjects.................. 857 .50 INDEX. ENGROSSING CLERK, resolution of Mr. Cary in reference to eMP]Oyi'Dg........................ 77 resolution of Mr. Turner authorizidg secretary to employ............... 78 resolution of Mr. Turner, of instrue tion to committee on miscellaneous subjects in reference to............ 78 ENROLLING CLERKS resolution of Mr. Wall in reference to employment of by committee on revision and adjustment........... 1845 temporary, resolution of Mr. Wright to employ......................... 138 ENTAIL resolution of Mr. Wait to amend con i3titution in reference to limitation of................................. 194 'ESSAY on the origin of the praires, i-esolu tion of Tdr. Underwood in reference to.:...............:............. 481 on the origin of the prairies, compli!Dentary resolution of Mr. Whiting in reference 488 EMPLOYMENT of clerks, by committees, resolution pf Mr. Allen, of Crawford, authoriz Ing................................. 322 of clerks, by committee on printing and binding, resolution of Mr. Wells in reference to...........:.. 533 of clerk, by committee on revision and adjustment, resolution of Mr. Cody authorizidg.................. 1393 of clerks, by standing committees, resolution of Mr. kirkpatrick in' reference to........................ 91 of convict labor on state works, reso lution of Mr. Snyder in reference to................................. 213 of enrolling clei-l-,s, by committee on revision and adjustment, resolution of Mr. Wall in reference to........ 1845 of postmaster-. duridz recess of con yention, reslutio'of Mr. Robinson in reference to..................... 1208 of secretaries during recess of con yeiition, resolution of Mr. Skinner in reference to.......i............... 1190 ENCOURAGEMENT OF LEARNING resolution of Mr. Bowman in refer ence to............................ 211 ESTATE landed, resolution of instruction of Mr. Ha-ines, of Lake, to committee on manufactures and agriculture in reference to restrictions of........1104 EQUALIZATION resolution of instruction of Mr. Cum inings to committee on finance, in reference to abolishment of state board of.......................... 615 resolution of instruction of Mr. Parker to committee on revenue in reference to abolishment of state board of........................... 212 EVENING SESSIONS OF CONVENTION remarks in reference to holding.... 374 375 resolution of Mr. Cary in reference to................................. 1087 resolution of Mr. Peirce in reference to- i:............................. 1477 resol ion of Mr. Wheaton in- refer ence to............................ 402 EVIDENCE rules of, resolution of Mr. Archer of instruction to judiciary committee in reference to..................... 79 rules of, resolution of instruction of -inir. Abbott to committee on judi ciary in reference to..I........... 859 INE.5 EXPENSES-Continued. I of convention, resolution of Mr. Hay in reference to reference of report from committee on accounts and expenditures of convention, in re gard to...........................1790 of convention and assembly since 1852, debate on report from com vmittee on retrenchment and reform in reference to.....226 to 230, 237 to 245 of convention and assembly since 1862, report firom committee on re trenchment and reform in reference to....................................... 226 of general assembly since 1862, and of constitutional convention of 1862, resolution of Mr. Wells to re scind resolution of inquiry to Auditor of State, in reference to... 80 of general assembly since 1862, reso lution of inquiry of Mr. Fox, to State Auditor, in reference to..... 68 legislative, resolution of Mr. Poage, in reference to pubication of...... 260 of state penitentiary, since 1867, com munication from Auditor of Public Accounts, in reference to.......... 261 of state penitentiary since 1867, res olution of inquiry of Mr. Wall, to Auditor of Public Accounts, in ref erence to.......................... 178 of 25th and 26th general assemblies, communication from Auditor of State in reference to............... 305 of 25th and 26th general assemblies, resolution of inquiry of Mr. Cary, to State Secretary, Treasurer and Auditor, in reference to............ 429 of 25th and 26th general assemblies, resolution of inquiry of Mr. De ment, to Auditor of Public Ac- counts, in reference to................ 263 of two last sessions of general assem bly, resolution of inquiry of Mr. Dement to Secretary of State in reference to....................... 91 FEDERAL RELATIONS, COMMITEET ON -Continued. resolution of Mr. Anthony'in refer ence to state and national govern ment, referred to.................. 100 resolution of Mr. Archer in reference to the sovereignty of the people, referred to........................ 113 resolution of Mr. Ellis in reference to amendments to national constitu tion, referred to................" 98 resolution of Mr. Turner in reference to ratification of state and national constitutions, referred to.......... 262 resolution of MNr. Wells in reference to location of national capital, re ferred to.......................... 213 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Raines, of Lake, in reference to rati fication of 15th amendment........ 165 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Moore in reference to succession tax................................ 9'2 amendment to constitution, in refer enceto............................ 97 and services of Auditor of State, com munication in reference to, submit ted by the president............... 196 of county clerks in certain cases, res olution of Mr. Eldredge in reference to................................. 262 of county offlcers, resolution of Mr, Medil in reference to.............. 174 of county officers, resolution of Mr. Moore in reference to.............. 180 of county officers, resolution of Mr. Rice in reference t o................ 116 official, resolution of Mr. Underwood in reference t o............ 179 official, resolution of Mr. Wright in reference to....................... 367 and services of Secretary of State, Treasurer and Auditor, resolution of inquiry of Mr. Goodhue in refer ence to............................ 146 etc., remarks on amendments in refer ence to............................ 97 EXECUTIVE, COMMITTEE ON appointment of..................... 75 debate on report from......... 745 to 826 debate in convention, on report from, as amended in committee of the whole............ 1369 to 1388 report from, rubmitted by Mr. An thony............................. 289 report from, in reference to oath of office, submitted by Mr. Anthony.. 851 report from, referred to committee on revision and adjustment........... 1387 resolution of Mr. Anthony in refer ence to establishment of a bureau of agriculture, etc., referred to.... 153 resolution of Mr. Archer in reference to passage of bills over veto, taken up and referred to................. 88 resolution of Mr. Haines, of Lake, to elect commissioner of agriculture and statistics, referred to.......... 212 resolution of Mr. Poage in reference to publication of legislative expen ses, referred to.................... 260 resolution of Mr. Rice in reference to executive expenses, referred to.... 76 resolution of Mr. Ross in reference to pardoning power of Governor, re ferred to....... -- 151 resolution of Mr. Sedgwick to amend constitution in reference to par doning power of Governor, referred to................................. 193 resolution of Mr. Snyder in reference to the vesting of pardoning power, referred to..................... 151, 260 resolution of Mr. Wagner in reference to pardoning power of Governor, referred to........................ 194 resolution of Mr. Wells to establish a bureau of statistics, referred to.... 213 resolution of Mr. Wright to amend constitution in reference to term of Governor, referred to........... 194 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Archer, in reference to pardoning power of Governor..............,> 98 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Ross, in reference to term of state officers............................ 193 of corporate limits, resolution of Mr. Abbott in reference to............. 679 FEMALE SUFFRAGE communications in reference to, (2).. 129 156 memorial in reference to............ 679 petition against, (2).......1477, 1502,1550 petition in reference to...............Cmn i 451 (3) 479, 487, 510, 560, 613, 1077, 1842 proposition in reference to........... 1730 protest in relation to................ 1277 (2) 1528, 1551 remarks of Mr. Mcdill in reference to lecture on......................1392 remonstrance against...............180 resolution of Mr. Buxton in reference to separate submission of question of................................. 1308 resolution of Mr. Cummings in refer encelto............................ 532 resolution of Mr. Cummings in refer ence to submission of proposition of........................., 5. resolution of instruction of Mr. Good hue to committee on revision and adjustment, in reference to........ 1477 and negro suffrage, resolution of Mr. English in reference to............ 212 EXTRA EMPLOYES communication from Secretary of State in reference to.................1076 resolution of inquiry of Mr. Moore, to Secretory of State, in reference to.................................1022 of convention, resolution of Mr. Bromwell in reference to..........1012 EXTRA COMPENSATION of public officers, resolution of Mr. Scholfield to amend constitution in reference to 1.................154 EXTRAORDINARY JUDICIAL OATHS petition in reference to..............1012 FACILITATION OF BUSINESS resolution of instruction of Mr. Ross, to committee on rules, in reference to..................................... 1233 FEDERAL CONSTITUTION resolution of Mr. Wendling in refer ence to ratification of amendments to............................... 161 FEDERAL RELATIONS, COMMITTEE ON- I FINANCE, COMMITTEE ON appointment of..................... 75 debate on report from...............1771 1772,1783 to 1787 report from, submitted by Mr. Ross..1771 1776 report from, referred to committee on revision and adjustment........... 1787 resolution of Mr. English instructing Secretary of convention to deliver certain letters received from county clerks in reference to railroads, to.. 260 resolution of Mr. Weshburn in refer ence to application of 7 per cent. tax of Illinois Central railroad, re ferred to.................. 194 resolution of Mr. Washburn in refer ence to general taxation for local benefit, referred to................ 194 appointment of...................... 75 communication in reference to loca tion of national capital, referred to............................* 1 i, 280 debate on report from....... 1764 to 1771 majority report from, submitted by Mr. Peirce....................... 1152 majority report from, remarks of Mr. Peirce on submission of..........1153 minority report from, submitted by Mr. Wendling.....................1155 memorial in reference to) location of national capital, referred to........ 211 preamble and resolution of Mr. Ellis in reference to location of national capital, referred to..................... Ws r 76 report from, in the form of resolu tions, submitted by Mr. Peirce....1764 EXiPENSES of constitutional convention of 1862, resolution of inquiry of Mr. Merri am to State Auditor in reference to................................ 68 of convention, remarks on report from committee on accounts and expenditures of convention, in ref erence to.................. 1787 to 1789 of convention, report from commit tee on accounts and expenditures of convention, in reference to, sub mitted by Mr. Moore.............. 1787 of convention, report from committee on accounts and expenditures of convention, in reference to, sub mitted by Mr. Moore..............1861 _ —14 51 INDEX. EVILS OF ADULTERATION — petition in reference to.............. 305 ]EXECUTION resolution of instruction of Mr. Springer, to committee on legisla tive department in reference to property exempted from..........1 EXECUTIVE report from committee on revision and,tdjustm-,.ut on article on, sub mitted by Mr. Cody............... 1776 expenses, resolution of Mr. Rice in reference to................ 76 vetoes, resolution of- Mr. Haines, of Lake, in reference to.............. 90 FEES EXTENSION EXEMPTION of certain lands from taxation, reso lutioii of instruction of Mr. Cross to committee on revenue in refer ence to............................ 481 of manufacturing companies from taxation, resolution of Mr. Sedg wick in reference to............... 100 from taxation, resolution of instruc tion of Mr. Coolbaugh to commit tee on revenue in reference to..... 211 from taxation, resolution of instruc tion of Mr. Cummings to commit tee on finance, in reference to..... 192 FERRY across the Mississippi river at St. Louis, communication in reference to.............I.................... 389 52 ID. FOX, JESSE C.-C-ontinued. amendment of, to section 6 of report from committee on education, as amended in committee of the whole............................. 1749 amendment of, to sections 5, 10 and 13 of report from committee on judiciary, as amended in commit tee of the whole..1428, 1434, 1444, 1445 amendment of, to sections 3 and 11 of report from committee on legis lative department, as amended in committee of the whole.......940, 943 amendment of, to section 1 of report from committee on miscellaneous -subjects, in reference to homestead exemptions....................... 903 amendment of, to section 1 of report from committee on railroad corpo rations............................ 1637 amendment of, to section 1 of report from committee on right of suf frage, as amended in committee of the whole......................... 1282 amendment of, to sections 9 and 16 of report from committee on schedule.1803 1805 FOX, JESSE C.-Continued. resolution of inquiry to State Auditor, in reference to expenses of general assembly since 1862.................... e s resolution of inquiry to State Auditor in reference to expenses of general assembly since 1862, debate on.... 68 to 70 resolution of instruction to commit tee on schedule in reference to man ner of submission of new constitu tion............................. 193 resolution of instruction to postmas ter of convention.................. 1865 substitute of, to section 23 of report from committee on judiciary......1107 substitute of, to section 28 of report from committee on judiciary, as amended in committee of the whole............................ 1471 substitute of, to sections 3 and 24 of report from committee on legisla tive department............... 501, 54 substitute of, to section 23 of report from committee on schedule, as amended in committee of the whole............................. 18'20 amendment of, to section 10 of report from committee on schedule, as amended in committee of the whole.......................,......1827 amendment of, to section 4 of report from committee on state, county and municipal indebtedness...... 851 amendment of, to substitute of Mr. Hay to section 5 of report from committee on judiciary.... 1222 amendment of, to substitute of Mr. Sedgwick to additional section to re po rt fr om committee o n right of suffrage, as amended in committee of the whole, offered by Mr. Sedg wick 3 0................7..............1306 appointed member of committee on federal relations................... 75 appointed member of committee on internal improvements............ 75 appointed member of committee on military affairs.................... 75 communication in reference to man ner of submission of new constitu tion, submitted by................ 280 leave of absence granted to.......... 758 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on judi ciary, as amended in committee of the whole............1410,1415,1471 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on right of suffrage, as amended in commit tee of the whole................... 1306 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on education...........1735 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on judiciary........... 1222 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on legislative depart ment....... 499, 501, 525, 526, 540, 559 564, 631 FOREIGNERS communication in reference to right of suffrage of..................... 679 FORHM of committee reports, resolution of Mr. Vandeventer in reference to... 146 of jo urnal, remarks of Mr. Haines, of Lake, in reference to.............. 9 of oath of office of members of fu ture conventions, resolution of in struction of Mr. Springer to com mittee on future amendments, in reference to....................... 193 FRAUDS railroad and warehouse, petition in refreence to........................ 5............... 60 590, 627, 654, 679, 702, 757 railroad and warehouse, resolution of instruction of Mr. Vandeventer to committee on miscellaneous sub jects in reference to............... 5go warehouse, etc., petition in reference to........................ 580, 736, 783 warehouse, resolution of Mr. Wagner in reference to.................... 175$ FORMAN, FERRIS-(a Delegate from the Thirteenth Representative District, in place of IHon. B. W. Henry, resigned.) amendment of, to section 6 of report from committee on bill of rights..1568 appointed member of committee on internal improvements in place of Mr. Henry, resigned.............. 1277 appointed member of committee on judicial circuits, in place of Mr. Kirkpatrick, deceased............. 12771 appointed member of committee on public accounts and expenditures in place of Mr. Henry, resigned...1277 certificate of election, presented by Mr..Wall.......................... 1232 petition in reference to observance of the seventh day, submitted by..... 1477i FORMATION of new counties, communication in reference to................... 197 ofa new county, petition in refecr ence to............................ 451 and division of counties, petition in reference to....................... 151 of new counties, petition in reference to.........................389, 726, 757 of new counties, resolution of Mfr. Abbott in reference to............. 93 of new counties, resolution of Mr. Eldredge in reference to........... 262 of new counties, resolution of Mr. Haines, of Lake, in reference to... 180 FULLER, MILES A.-(a Delegate from the Thirty-sixth Representative District.) additional section to report from committee on executive depart nment, offered by................... 84 amendment of, to report from com. mittee on roads and internal navi gation..........................8 87,89 amendment of, to section three of re port from committe e on counties..132 amendment of, to section one of re port from committee on education.1732 amendment of, to section one of re port from committee on executive department....................... 7VW amendment of, to section eighteen of report from committee on judi ciary.....................,...... 106 amendment of, to section seven of re port from committee on legislative department...................... 72 amendment of, to section two, of re port from committee on revenue...1263 appointed member of committee of investigation in referenc to com munication frlom Secretary of State in regard to stationery furnished to convention........................ lm189 appointed member of committee on canal and canal lands..............?S appointed member of committee on finance............................ 75 appointed member of committee on miscellaneous subjects............. 75 communication in reference to the condemnation of land for railroad purposes, submitted by............ 38 leave of absence granted to...... 333, 510 petition in reference to location of railroad offices, subm'~ted by...... 865 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on military affairs...... 861 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on miscellaneous sub jects in reference to homestead ex emptions.......................... 903 remarks of, in de bate on report from committee on sch edule........1803,1807 remarks of, in debate on resolution of Mr. Wells in refe renc e to election of delegate t o convention in place of Hon. Wm. H. Patterson, de ceased............................. 202 remarks of, in debate o n th e subject of re cess of convention........... 872 remarks of, on question of privilege.1226 remarks of, on report from committee on printing and binding in re fer en ce to index to debates, etc...........eb o 1865 remarks of, on resolutions of instruc - tion ot Mr. Moo re to Auditor of State and treasurer of State Nor mal School and Industrial Univer sity, in reference to Superint endent of Public Instruction............. 1390 resolution in reference to bill of rights............................. 192 resolution in reference to election of permanent officers of convention.. 50 resolution in reference to payment of officers and members of conven tion............................... 88 FOX, JESSE C.-(a Delegate from the Thir tieth Representative District. additional section to report from committee on military affairs, of fered by........................... 865 amendment of, to lines 16, 23 and 24 of section 33 of report from commit tee on legislative department..608, 609 amendment of, to minority report from committee on roads and inter. nal navigation, in reference to pri vate roads....................... 258 amendment of, to report from com mittee on printing and binding in reference to index to debates...... 1865 amendment of, to report of committee on roads and internal navigation).. 891 amendment of, to resolution of Mr. Vandeventer in reference to ap pointment of pages to convention. 55 amendment of, to section 1 of report from committee on bill-of rights..1559 amendment of, to section 4 of report from committee on eduaation.....1735 I i i I I i I 52 INDEX. FINANCE, COMMITTEE ON-6'ontinued. resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Cummings, in reference to abolirh ment of State Board of Equaliza tion............... i:.............. 615 .resolution of instrue ion to, of.Mr. Cummlings in reference to exemp tionfromtaxation 192 l,e3olution of instruc ion of Dement in reference to taxing land of Illinois Central railroad...-...... 116 FIVE-MINUTE RULE remarks in reference to construction of........................... l6,,D5, 1626 FOOD AND DRINK resolution of instruction of Mr. At kins to committee on bill of rights. in reference to privileges of citizens in regard to......................I.260 FORD, REV. MR. prayer offered by...... 117,826, 1596, 1859 FRANCHISES resolution of Mr. Bayne in reference to granting of, in certain cases..... 654 REE SCHOOLS resolution of Mr. Parker to amend constitution in reference to........ 21% resolution of Mr. Springer in refer ence to........................... 114 FRUITS communication in reference to ishort measure in........................M communication in reference to rhort measure in, reported back from Fotamittee on miscellaneous sub jecti3............................... Ss F~~~~~~~~IDX 5 FULLER, MILES A.-Continued. remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on coun ties, as amended in committee of the whole......................... 1535 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on judi ciary, as amended in committee of the whole........................ 1396 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on legis lative department, as amended in committee of the whole........... 926 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on':.reve nue, as amended in committee of the whole................... 1602, 1609 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on counties........ 1339,1350 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on executive depart ment.......................... 760, 824 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on judiciary.1064, 1088, 1145 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on legislative depart ment............'-.............716, 722 remarks of, in debate on report fi'om committee on revenue....... 1263, 1315 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on roads and internal navigation........................ 887 remarks of, on report from commit tee on printing and binding, in ref erence to publication of constitu tion...............................1704 resolution of, in reference to carpet for[State arsenal................... 988 resolution of, in reference to closing hall on Sunday.................... 484 resolution of, in reference to use of in toxicating liquor by State offi cials.......................192 resolution of instruction to commit tee on accounts and expenditures of convention, in reference to com mittee rooms..................... 260 esolution of instruction to Commit tee on future amendments, in refer ence to mode of amending consti tution............................ 139 resolution of instruction to commit tee on legislature, in reference to number of members of General Assembly......................... 83 substitute of, to section 6 of report from committee on counties....... 1340 substitute of, to section 2 of report from committee on future amend ments............................. 1.314 FUTURE amendments to constitution, resolu tion of instruction of Mr. Under wood to judiciary committee, in reference t o....................... 94 appropriations for State house,article in reference to.....................1320 appropriations for State house, re marks on report from committee on public accounts and expenditures, in reference to article on.......... 1621 1622, 1772, 1773 appropriations for statehouse, report from committee on public accounts and expenditures in reference to ar ticle on........................... 1621 appropriations for state house, report from committee on public accounts and expenditures in reference to ar ticle on, referred to committee on revision and adjustment...........1774 constitutional conventions, resolu tion of Mr. Bayne in reference to.. 135 conventions, resolution of instruc tion of Mr. Springer to committee on future amendments in reference to form of oath of office of mem bers of............................ 193 conventions, resolution of Mr. Under wood of instruction to committee on future amendments in reference to................................ 78 convention and general assembly, res tolution of Mr. Sedgwick in reference to ineligibility of office holders to. 76 creation of offices by the legislature, resolution of instruction of Mr. An derson to committee on legislature in reference to i..................... 191 revision of constitution, resolution of Mr. Parker in reference to......... 176 GENERAL ASSEMBLY amendment to constitution inref erence to oath of office of members of................................. 139so communicati on fro m Auditor of State in reference to appropriations b y................................ 365 resolution of M r. Haines, of Lake, to appoint committee to ascertain appropriations of money by since 1862............................... so0 resolution of Mr. Scholfield in refer ence to passage of general and spe cial laws by....................... 11X and future conventions, resolution of Mr. Sedgwick in reference to ineli gibility of office holders to..... 76 resolution of Mr. Springer in refer ence to compensation of members of................................. 128 resolution of Mr. Wells in reference to bribery in...................... 147t since 1862, and constitutional conven tion of 1862, resolution of Mr. Wells to rescind resolution of in qu;.ry to Auditor of State in refer ence to expenses of................ 90 resolution of inquiry of Mr. Dement to Secretary of State, in reference to two last sessions of............. 91 resolution of inquiry of Mr. Fox to Auditor of State in reference to expenses of since 1862.............. resolution of inquiry of Mr. "Trues dale to Auditor of State, in refer ence to appropriations by. 3.'..... 8% resolution of instruction of Mr. Cross to committee on legislative department, in reference to........ 211 and compensation of members of, resolution of instruction of Mr. Ellis to committee on legislature,in reference to sessions of............ Ft resolution of instruction of Mr. Ful ler -to committee on legislature, in reference to number of members of................................. 85 FUTURE AMENDMENTS, COMMITTEE ON-E appointment of..................7... t75 debate on report from.......1309 to 1318 debate in convention on report from, as amended in committee of the whole...................... 1 59 1 to 1595 majority report from, submitted by Mr. Archer........................ 391 minority report from, submitted by Mr. Brown........................ 424 minority report from, submitted by Mr. Haines, of Lake............. 391 report from, referred to committee on revision and adjustment......... 1595 resolution of Mr. Bryan in reference to future constitutional conven tions, referred to..................... 135 resolution of Mr. Bryan in reference to manner of submission of amend ed constitution to the people, re ferred to..................... 135 resolution of Mr. Underwood in ref cerence to the sovereign power of convention, referred to.........213 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Fuller, in reference to mode of amending the constitution........ 139 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Springer in reference to form of oath of office of members of future - conventions....................... 193 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Underwood in reference to future conventions....................... 78 GENERAL ASSEMBLIES communication from Auditor of State in reference to expenses of.. 305 25th and 26th, resolution of inquiry of Mr. Cary to State Secretary, Treas urer and Auditor in reference to ex penses of.......................... 420 25th and 26th, resolution of inquiry of Mr. Dement to Auditor of pub lic Accounts, in reference to expen ses of............................. 263 GAMBLE, JOHN P.-(a Delegate from the Forty-first Representative District, in place of Hon. Wm. H. Patterson, deceased.) additional section to report from com mittee on miscellaneous corpora tions in reference to warehouses, offered by......................... 1636 additional section to report from com mittee on revenue, as amended in committee of the whole, offered by................................1616 amendment of, to section 7 of report from committee on counties....... 1347 amendment of, to section 4 of report from committee on counties, ab amended in committee of the whole............................. 1533 amendment of, to section 2 of report from committee on revenue...... 1263 appointed member of committee on congressional apportionment in place of Mr. Patterson, deceased... 509 FURTHER CONSIDERATION of report from committee on judici ary, resolution of Mr. Anderson in reference to....................... 108 of report from committee on state, county and municipal indebtedness, remarks of Mr. McCoy in reference to................................. 120~ of report from committee on state, county and municipal indebtedness resolution of Mr. McCoy in refer ence to........................ 261, 273 of section 39 of report from commit tee on judiciary, resolution of Mr. Cary to postpone.................. 118C GENERAL AND SPECIAL TAXES resolution of Mr. Anthony in refer ence to............................ 154 FURTHER PUBLICATION of debates, resolution of instruction of Mr. Anderson to committee on accounts and expenditures of con. vention, in reference to...........119C i INDEX. 53 GAMBLE, JOHN P.-Conti-nued. appointed member of committee on penitentiary and reformatory insti tutions in place of Mr. Patterson, deceased.......................... W9 appointed member of committee on retrenchment and reform, in place of Mr. Patterson, deceased......... Wg certificate of election of, presented by Mr. Goodell....................... 451 leave of absence granted to.......... 726 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on counties............ 1347 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on education.....1741, 1742 C,ARRARD, W. C. elected assistant postmaster of con levention 54 ,ave of TUNDS OF INSURKNCE COMPANIES resolution of instruction of Mr. Pills bury to committee on miseellane- - our, subjects, in reference to invest ment of........................... 193 resolution of instruction of Mr. Pills bury to committee on miscellaneous subjects in reference to investment of, reported back from committee on miscellaneous subjects.......... 257 FURTHER AIIENDMENTS TO CONSTITU TION resolution of Mr. Church in reference to................................. 1866 GENERAL AND SPECIAL LAWS —, of cities, resolution of Afr. Anthony. in reference to...................... 154 resolution of Mr. Scholfield in refer ence to passage of, by General As sembly.... i.. i:............ 116 resolution o ins uc ion of, M'r, Peirce to committee on legislative department, in reference to........ 98 GENERAL SHERIDAN reception of, by convention.......... 1423 1 and staff, resolution of Mr. Cameron, inviting to visit convention... O.....1403 54 INDEX. GOODHUE, WM. C.-(a Delegate from the Forty-third Representative District.) amendment of, to resolution of Mr. Parks in reference to adjournment, sine die, of convention............. 1677 amendment of, to section 8 of report from committee on counties, as amended in committee of the whole..............................1518 amendment of, to section 1 of report from committee on future aniend. ments............................. 1313 amendment of, to section 5 of report from committee on revenue.......1270 amendment of, to section I of report from committee on right of suf frage, as amended in committee of the whole.........................1293 appointed member of executive com mittee............................. 75 appointed member of committee on judicial circuits................. 75 appointed member of committee on penitentiary and reformatory insti tutions............................ 75 appointed member of committee to prepare address to the people of the state.......................... 783 communication in reference to the sale of the products of penitentiary labor, submitted by............... 451 leave of absence granted to...... 236, 483 petition in reference to circuit court of Will county, submitted by..... 235 petition in reference to location of railroad offices, submitted by...... 368 petition in reference to minority rep resentation, submitted by......... 703 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on coun ties, as amended in committee of the whole................... 1512, 1522 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on ex ecutive, as amended in committee of the whole......................1384 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on judi ciary, as amended in committee of the whole......... 1410, 1421, 1441, 1493 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on legis lative department, as amended in committee of the whole........923, 924 remarks of, in debate in convention peon report from committee on mis cellaneous corporations in reference to warehouses, as amended in com mittee of the whole...............1697 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on right of suffrage, as amended in commit tee of the whole..................1287 remarks of, in debate on amendment .of Mr. Turner to resolution of in quiry of Mr. Fox to State Auditor in reference to expenses of general assembly since 1862............... 70 remarks of, in debate on motion of Mr. Church to refer to commit commitee on egisltive dpart-tee of the whole substitute to por- rslto fisrcint omt ment.....................567 tion of reports from committees on teo eiinadajsmn,i remark of, n debte onrepor fromcanal and canal lands and on inter- rfrnet eto fatceo commitee o mine and inera in-nal improvements................333 rgto ufae aldu n e teress inrefeenceto te prtec- remarks of, in debate on report from btdo.75 7( tiou f thelive of mners......267 committee on bill of rights.......1568 sbttt f oaedeto r remars of in ebateon rportfrom remarks of, in debate on reports fromCoytseto42oreotfo commitee n micellaeoussub-committees on canal and canal cmiteo eiltv eat ject inrefeenc to ometeadcx-lands, and on internal improve- mn.~ e~~~~~~~~~~~mptints.....................91 et.3'........353 susiueo,treouinoinur remarks of, in debate on report from ~~~05, 355, 356, 417 ofM.CrtoSaeSceay commitee onrevenu. 1263 1275 remarks of, in debate on report fromTraueanAuio,ireeec remars of,in rferene toreconide-committee on counties...........1351 toepneof2tan26hGnr ratio of sctio 6 ofartice on remarks of, in debate on report fi'omatAsmle.2 revenu..................1677 committee on electoral and repre.ausiueo,tseto''''Y''port remark of, n annuncemnt ofdeathsentative reform.................1728 fo omte ncute,a of Hn. W H. atteson......195 remarks of, in debate on report fromamne incmiteo th remaks f, n reoluionin rferncecommittee on executive depart- woe12 to l~~~~~~~~~~eganrgts..................85. e..787, 788, 805 resluton n rfernceto ega rihts85 committee on future amendments.13l3GOENET of rpresntatves or lctur....798 committee on judiciary............995 ofteSaereakonatceo resolutions of cndolence on the996, 1003, 1047, 1080, 1097, 1123, 1167 ditiuinopoeso. 7 deathof Ho. W.H. Paterso 195 remarks of, in debate on report fromofteSaereotfocomte resoltionof istrucion o comit-committee on legislative depart-onblofrgt,ireeectods tee on bil of right, in refeenceto mt............................515 tiuino h oeso. 8 preamble.....................262 527, 538, 569, 588, 594,I 609, 615 inenlofteSaereouino substitute to addtional section ef632, 610, 651, 676, 691, 708 M.Cmig nrfrnet h Mr. Srintr to epor fromcom- remarks of, in debate on report from rgt ftepol nrgr o. 8 mitteeon excutivedeparment,committee on miscellaneous corpo-SttannainlreouinoMr offe~~~~~~~~~~redon b.............5 rain......................166(9 Atoyi eeec o9 GOODHUE, WM. C.-Continued. remarks of, in debate on report from committee on miscellaneous sub jects, in reference to homestead exemptions.............................899 remarks of, on report from commit tee on miscellaneous subjects in ref erence to preparation of address to the people of the ztate............. 1731 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on printing and binding in reference to printing and binding convention debates................ 124 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on revenue....... 1261, 1271 remarks of, in debate on report f rom committee on schedule............ 1802 remarks of, in debate on resolution of Mr. Allen, of Alexander, in ref erence to oath of office........... 14,15 remarks of, in debate on resolution of Mr. Craig to furnish members of convention with daily papers...... 182 remarks of, in debate on resolution of Mr. English, in reference to re cess of convention................. 830 remarks of, in debate on resolution of Mr. Parks, in reference to fur nishing stationery to members of convention........................ 66 remarks of, in debate on resolution of Mr. Wells in reference to election of delegate to convention in place of Hon. Wm. H. Patterson, deceas ed............................ 202 remarks of, in debate on the subject of convention printing............ 12(6 remarks of, in debate on the subject of printing prayers offered in con vention........................... 170 remarks of, in debate on the subject of recess of convention...869, 870, 871 remarks of, in reference to order of business....................... 310, 337 remarks of, in reference to recess of convention........................ 736 remarks of, on additional sections to report from committee on legisla tive department................... 744 remarks of, on question of privilege. 851 1528 remarks of, on resolution of instrue tion to committee on revision and adjustment,in reference to section 6 of article on right of su-irage.1725, 1726 resolution of inquiry to Secretary of State, State Treasurer and Audit or, in reference to their services and fees........................... 146 resolution of instruction to commit tee on canal and canal lands, in reference to Illinois and Michigan canal.......................... 81, 83 resolution of instruction to commit tee on revision and adjustment, in reference to female suffrage........1477 resolution of instruction to commit tee on revision and adjustment, in reference to section 6 of article on right of suffrage................... 162 resolution of instruction to commit tee on revision and adjustment, in reference to section 6 of article on right of suffrage, called up and de bated on.....................172, [726 substitute of, to amendment of Mr. Cody to section 42 of report from committee on legislative depart ment..................... 6322 substitute of, to resolution of inquiry of Mr. Cary to State Secretary, Treasurer and Auditor, in reference to expenses of 25th and 26th Gener al Assemblies................,. 429 substitute of, to section 4 of report from committee on counties, as amended in committee of the whole 1.............. 5 2 2 remarks of, in debate on report from committ e e on executive depart ment..*-8 met............................ 2 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on legislative depart ment.............................. 567 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on mines and mineral in terests in reference to the protec tion of the lives of miners....... 267 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on miscellaneous sub jects in reference to homestead ex. emptio ns.......................... 910 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on revenue.......1263, 1275 remarks of, in reference to reconside ration of section 6 of article on revenue........................... 1677, remarks of, on announcement of death of lion. W. Ht. Patterson.......... 195 remarks of, on resolution in reference to legal rights..................... 85 resolution in reference to buncombe. 758 resolution in reference to legal rights 85 resolution in reference to use of hall of representatives for lecture...... 798 resolutions of condolence on the death of Hon. W. H. Patterson.... 195 resolution of instruction to commit tee on bill of rights, in reference to preamble......................... 262 ubstitute to additional section of Mr. Springer to report from com mittee on executive department, offered by.......... 825 51 INDEX. GENERAL TAXATION for local beneflt, resolution of Mr. Washburn in reference to.......... 19 GERMAN — resolution ofinstruction ofmr. Wend ling to committee on printing and binding, in reference to printing de bates in............................ 21 GOODF,LL, ADDISON-(a Delegate from the Forty-second Representative District.) additional section to report from com mittee on miscellaneous subjects, in reference to homestead exemp tions, (offered by.................. 912 amendment of, to report from com mittee on mines and mineral inter estr, in reference to the protection of the lives of miners.............. 267 amendment of, to section 5 of report from committee on judiciary, as ,amended in committee of'the whole............................. 1431 amendment of, to section 2 of report from committee on miscellaneous subjects in reference to homestead exemptions....................... 910 amendment of, to section 1 of report from committee on revenue, as amended in committee of the whole............................. 1597 appointed member of committee on ,6ducation.... I.................... 75 appointed member of committee on electoral and representative reform 75 appointed member of committee on internal improvements............ 75 appointed member of committee on revenue........................... 75 appointed member of committee on roads and internal navigation...... 75 certificate of election ofjohn P. Gam ble to fill vacadc asioned by the death of Hon. NVM. H. Patter son, presented by.................. 451 communication in reference to use of hall of representatives for lecture, submitted by...................... 798 leave of absenc6 aranted to.......... 333 petition in reference to reporter of supreme court, submitted by...... 894 -petition in reference to state reporter, submitted bv...................... 389 remarks of, in7 debate in convention on report from committee on rev enue, as amended in committee of the whole.................... 1597, 1598 remarks of, in debate on reports from committees on canal and canal land.-, and on internal improvements 444 1445 GOVERNMENT of the State, remarks on article on distribution of powers of.......... 279 of the State, report from committee on bill of'rights, in reference to dis tributi.. of the idowers of......... 281 internal, of the 9-tate, resolution of Mr. Cummings in reference to the rights. of the people in regard to... 281 State and national, resolution of Mr. Anthony in reference to........... 98 0 JDE. 55 HAINES, J. C., of Cook-Contintued. amendment of, to resolution of in quiry of Mr Truesdale to Auditor of State, in reference to appropria tions by general assembly....... 3 icmi.. 323 amendment of, to resolution of in struction of Mr. Allen, of Craw ford, to committee on revenue, in reference to taxation of church property used for other than reli grious purposes..................... 213 amendment of, to rules of conven tion...................... 6... 59 amendment of, to section 2 of report from committee on counties.......1327 amendment of, to sections 8 and 26 of report from committee on execu tive department...............775, 799 amendment of, to section 25 of report from committee on executive, as amended in committee of the whole.............................1386 amendment of, to sections 20, 26, 32 and 36 of report from committee on judiciary..........1111, 1094, 1171, 1172 amendment of, to sections 5 and 13 of report from committee on judi ciary, as amended in committee of the whole.................... 1404,1412 amendment of, to sections 6 and 38 of report from committee on l eg isla tive department............... 721, 642 amendment of, to section 5 of rep,ort from committee on municipal cor po rati on s................. 1675, 1676 amendment of, to section 3 of report from committee on r ailroad cor porations, as amended in committee of the whole....................... 1720 amendment of, to section 2 of report 1'rom committee on revenue.......1260 amendment of, to section 4 of report from committee on revenue, as amended in committee of the whole.............................1606 amendment of, to section 4 of report fiom committee on state, county and municipal indebtedness....... 845 amendment of, to section 2 of report from committee on state, county and municipal indebtedness, as amended in com.mmittee of the whole (............................... 1259 amendment eof, to substitute of Mr. Allen, of Crawford, to section I of report from committee on mis cel laneous subjects in reference to homestead exemptions, as amended in committee of the whole...............1690 amendment of, to substitute of Mr. Anthony to section 39 of report from committee on judiciary, as amende d in committee of the wholne............................. 1480 amendment of, to s ubstitute of Mr. Hanna to section 4 of report from committee on state, county and mtu nicipal indebtedness............... 80 appointed member of committee on banks and cur rency..................... 75 appointed member of committee on congressi onal apportionment........... 75 appointed member of commiittee on ed ucation.....................e..*.v. * 75 appointed member of committee on municipal corporations............ v 75 article in reference to municipal cor porations, submitted by.......... 212 communication in reference to short rieasure of fruit, submitted by..... 236 communication in reference to state aid to railroads and canals, submit ted by.......................1476 communication in reference to taxa tion, submitted by...................... ra of, in d;5s leave of absence granted to............77 96, 479, 599, 851 secretary ~ ~ ~ ~ mnoit ofor coveton.m3 convmnttee.on TIAINES, J. C., of Cook-Cgntinrued. re marks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on mu nicip-al corporations, as amended fin committee of the whole o e........x 1723 remarks of, in debate in convention on report firm committee on rail road corporations, as amended in committee of the whole........... 1718 remarks or, in debate in convention on report from committee on rev cnue, as amended in committee of the whole......... 1602, 1607, 1608, 1775 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on right of suffrage, as amended in commit tee of tile whole.................. 1.291 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee ( n sched ule, as amended in committee of the whole.................. I..182 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on state, county and municipal indebted ness, as amended in committee of the whole......................... 12611 remarks of, in debate on motion of Mr. Church to refer to committee of the whole substitute to portion of reports from committees on canal and canal lands and on internal im provements.............. SW remarks of, in debate on report from committee on bill of rights........ 158 remarks of, in debate on report from committees on canal and canal lands, and on internal improve ments............................ 445 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on counties............ 1355 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on executive depart ment............................. 767 775, 776, 781, 782, 786, 799, 815 GRAND JURY and indictments by, resolution of Mr. Wall in reference to................ 174 resolution of instruction of Mr. Bayne to committee on judiciary, in refer ence to abolishment of............ 176 minority report from committee on municipal corporations, submitted by............................... 390 petition in reference to landlords, submitted by..................... 726 petitition in reference to masonic in scriptions on public buildings, & e., submitted bv......................320 petition in reference to warehouse and railroad frauds, submitted by. 679 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on judi ciary, as amended in committee of the whole........1404, 1434, 1455, 1492 HAINES, J. C., of Cook-(a Delegate from the Fifty-ninth Representative District.) additional section to report from committee on municipal corpora tions, as amended in committee of the whole, offered by........... 1724 amendments of, to additional sections of Mr. Anderson to report from committee on revenue, as amended in committee of the whole (2).....1613 amendment of, to amendment of Mr. Cross to section 7 of majority re port from committee on counties..1348 amendment of, to amendment of Mr. Fuller to section 3 of majoritr re port from committee on counties..1329 amendment of, to amendment of Mr. McDowell to section 15 of report from committee on bill of rights..1581 amendment of, to second additional section reported by committee on finance............................ 1787 amendment of, to third additional section of additional article re ported from majority of judiciary committee, and considered in de bate on report from committee on railroad corporations.............. 1657 amendment of, to report fibr com mittee on printing and binding in reference to printing constitution and address, etc.................... 1790 amendment of, to resolution of Mr. Anthony in reference to election of delegate to convention in place of Hon. Wm. H. Patterson, decEased. 209 amendment of, to resolution of Mr. Medill to furnish postage stamps to secretary of convention........... 1232 amendment of, to resolution of Mr. Parks in reference to furnishing stationery to members of conven tion........................... i. 66 amendment of, to resolution of Mr. Wells in reference to adjournment. 453 amendment of, to resolution of in. quiry of Mr. Fox to State Auditor, in reference to expenses of general assembly since 1862.............68, 70 amendment of, to resolution of in quiry of Mr. Hanna to Secretary of State, in reference to state printing, etc................................ $8 1-15 I INDEX. 55 GOVERNOR communication from, in reference to -number of penitentiary convicts pardoned during the past ten year,- 343 COIDMUDiCatiOn fl-on-i, in reference to veto'ne-sages...... i'''..166 resolution of M to r'e.- re port from committee on investiga tion on accounts of Secretary of State, to.......................... 1865 resolution of Mr. Ross in reference to pardoning power of............... 151 resolution of Mr. Sedgwick to amend constitution in reference to pardon ing power of...................... 193 .resolution of Mr. Wagner!D reference to pardoning power of............ 194 resolution of Mr. Wright to amund constitution in reference to term of 194 resolution of inquiry of Mr. Cary to, in reference to Dumber of peniten.. tiary convicts pardoned during the past ten years. 168 resolution of inst ion o ch er to committee on executive, in reference to pardoning power of.. 98 of Virginia, communication from.... 1759 of Virjinia' telegram of thanks 1roml5,'-,O GRAND JURIES resolution of instruction of Mr. Cross to committee on judiciary, in ref- - erence to the abolishment of...... 262 GRANTING LEAVE OF ABSEIQCE resolution of Mr. Atkins in reference to................................ 859 resolution of Mr. Turner in reference to................................. 832 remarks of, in debate on report from. committee on future amendments.1314 1316 remarks of, in debate on report from committee onjudiclary.....1098,1099 1110, lll,, 112i, llk?,, 1161 1162, 1168, 1192, 1222, 12-,4 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on legislative depart ment....634, 643, 655, 656, 692, 725, 741 remarks of, in debate on report from committtee on mines and mineral interests in reference to the pro tection of the lives of miners...... 272 remarks ol', in debate on report from committee on municipal corpora tions....................... 1672, 1674 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on printing and binding, in reference to correction of s-)eeches....................... 168 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on railroad corpora tions.............................. 1639 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on revenue............. 1260 1261, 1267,1273 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on state, county and municipal indebtedness.... 229, 838, 845 remarks of, in debate on resolution of Mr. Church to adopt rule forty nine, in reference to the effect of tablin amendme-,its............... 1 ri 9 remark's of, in debate on resolution of Mr. Haines, of Lake, in reference to oath of office................:11, 44 remarks of, in debate on resolution of Mr., Parks, in reference to fur nishing stationery to members of convention...................... Cal remarks of, in debate on resolution of instruction of Mr. Allen, of Crawford, to committee on revenue in reference-, to t,-txation of church property used for other than reli, gious purposes....................'224 remarks of, in reference to report from committee on municipal cor porations.......................... 1677 remarks of, on additional sections to report from committee on legisla tive department......... F 743 ... i- ...e remarks of, on election o esli at of convention................... 50 INDEX. HAINES, E. M., of Lake-Continued. amendment of, to resolution of Mr. Washburn in reference to refunding value of postage stamps........... 367 amendment of, to resolution of Mr. Wright in reference to suffrage.... 71 amendment of, to sections 3, 5 and 12 of report from committee on bill of rights................ 1560, 1567, 1573 amendment of, to section 5 of report from committee on counties, as amended in committee of the whole............................. 1537 amendment of, to sections 1 and 22 of report from committee on execu tive department........... 757, 760, 824 amendment of, to sections 18, 19, 20, 32, 39 and 40 of report from com mittee on judiciary.............. 1078 1094, 1170, 1184 HAINES, E. M., of Lake-Continued. remarks of, in debate on motion of Mr. Church to refer to committee on judiciary his resolution e i n ref erence to control of railroads in re spect to rates of tra n sportation... 150 remarks of, in debate on motion of Mr. Church to refer to committee of the whole, his substitute to portion of reports from committees on canal and canal lands and on in ternal improvements.......... 333 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on banks and currency.1682 re marks of, in debate on repor t from committee on bill of rights........ 1560 1563, 1564, 1570, 1582, 1589 remarks of,in debate on reports from committees on canal and canal lands and on internal improvements..... 395 397, 398, 399, 400, 401 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on counties....1353 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on executive depart ment............................. 760 770, 777, 783, 788, 800, 801, 826 remarks of, in debate on report from committee one. Judiciary...... 1079, 1081 1092, 1093, 1095, 1134, 1135, 1141, 1142 1158, 1169, 1170, 1184, 1187, 1213, 1218' remarks of, in debate on report from committee on legislative depart ment......................498. 499, 506 527, 537, 539, 574, 623, 626, 633 636, 640, 6(66, 682, 683. 684, 716 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on military affairs...... 863 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on miscellaneous corpo ~ rations.............................. 1667 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on miscellaneous corpo rations, in reference to warehouses.1628 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on miscellaneous sub jects, in reference to homestead ex emptions........ 898, 902, 905, 907, 910 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on municipal corpora tions........................ 1673, 1674 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on printing and binding 106 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on printing and bind ing, in reference to furnishing news papers to convention............... 130 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on railroad corporations1638 1639 remarks of, in debate on report from, committee on roads and internal navigation....................889, 892 remarks of, in debate on report from: committee on state, county and municipal indebtedness............24 222, 839, 850 remarks of, in debate on resolution of Mr. Allen, of Crawford, in refer ence to printing veto messages. 152,- 153 remarks of, in debate on resolution of Mr. Church in reference to oath of office.........-...,...19, 20 remarks of, in debate on resolution of Mr. Church to adopt rule 49, in reference to the effcet of tabling amendments..........184, 187 remarks of, in debate on resolution of Mr. Craig to furnish members of conventions with daily papers....181 remarks of, in debate on resolution of Mr. Peirce in reference to oath of ;office.............................*. 47 remarks of, in debate on resolution of Mr. Turner, in reference to conven tionqyrinting.............. 96 remarks of, in debate on resolution of Mr. Wells, in reference to election of delegate to convention in'place of Eion. Wm. H. Patterson, de ceased................. 201 remarks of, in debate on resolution of inquiry of Mr. Fox to Aulditor of State in reference to expenses of General Assembly since 1862........ 68 remarks of, in reference to form of journal............................ 9 remarks of, in reference to order of business;............... 231, 883 remarks of, in reference to protests.. 1528 t529 1551 remarks of, in reference ~o recess of convention...........................737, 798 amendment of, to sections 1, 27, 35, 36 and 40 of report from com mittee on legislative department.......... 499 556, 612, 626 amendment of, to section 5 of report from committee on miscellaneous corporations in reference to ware hous es, as amen ded in committee of the whole....................... 1701 amendment of, to section 1 of report from committee on miscellaneous subjects in reference to homestead exemnptions...................... 902 amendment of, to section 1 of report from committee on r ailroad cor porations.......................... 1638 amendment of, to section 6 of report from committee on revenue........t 1274 amendment of, to section 6 of r epor t lfrom committee on revenue, as amended in committee of the whole.............................1609 amendment of, to substi tute of Mr. Browning to section 7 of report from committee on judiciary....... 1224 amendment of, to substitute of Mir. Wall to resolution of Mr. English in reference to recess of convention 830 appointed member of committee on counties....................... 75 appoi nt ed memb er of committee on future amendments................ 75 appointed member of committee on right of suffrag e................... 75 appoin te d m e mber of committee on township organization............ 75 communication in reference to rail road crossings, etc., submitted by.. 141 leave of absence granted to...... 253, 938 minority report from committee on future amendments, submitted by. 391 minority report from committee on right of suffrage, submitted by.. 157 856 HAINES, E. M., of Lake-(a Delegate firom the Fiftly-third Representative District.) additional sections (3) to report from committee on legislative depart ment, offered by................... 636 additional section to report fi'om committee on miscellaneous sub jects, in reference to homestead exemptions, offered by............. 912 additional standing rules offered by.............................. 78 amendment of, to additional section offered by Mr. Browning to report from committee on miscellaneous subjects, in reference to divorce... 1692 amendment of, to amendment of Mr. Allen of Crawford to section 4 of report from committee on revenne, as amended in committee of the whole............................. 1601 amendment of, to amendment of Mr. Anderson to report from commit tee on printing.................... 106 amendment of, to amendment of Mr. Snyder to section 5 of report from committee on counties, as amend ed in committee of the whole..... 1.542 amendment of, to first additional sec tion reported by committee on finance............................ 1785 amendment of, to constitution in ref erence, to State capital............. 481 amendment of, to constitution in ref erence to street grades.............. 344 amendment of, to lines 1, 6, 7 and 8 of section 33 of report from com mittee on legislativedepartment... 587 amendment of, -to report from com mittee on printing and binding, in reference to correction of speeches. 168 amendment of, to report from com mittee on roads and internal navi gation............................. 892 amendment of, to resolution of Mr. Allen, of Crawford, authorizingl committee on legislative depart ment to employ clerk............. 113 amendment of, to resolution of Mr. Archer in reference to printing cer tain articles of the constitution...1130 amendment of, to resolution of Mr. Bayne in reference to right-of suf frage.............................. 100 amnendment of, to resolution of Mr. Cary, in reference to employing additional clerical force.......... 71 amendment of, to resolution of Mr. Cody in reference to furnishiEg ad ditional newspapers to members of convention........................ 134 amendment of, to resolution of Mr. Craig to ftirnish members of con vention with daily papers......... 180 amendment of, to resolution of Mr. English in reference to adjourn ment.............................. 86 amendment of, to resolution of Mr. Hay in reference to printing de bates............................. 90 amendment of, to resolution of Mr. Sedgwick in reference tg~adjourn merit..........fi...... 87 min ority report from committee on township organization, submitted by................................ 293 petition in reference to female suf frage, submitted b y 479 mede of t487, 510, 560, 613, 1077 proposition in reference to female suf frage, submitted by...............1730 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on coun ties, as amended in committee of the whole................... 1535, 1545 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on future amendment s. a s amended in com mittee of the whole........ 1592, 1593 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on legis lative department, as amended in committee of the whole........... 938 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on mu nicipal corporations, as amended in committee of the whole........... 1723 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on rev enue, as amended in committee of the whole........ 1601, 1609, 1774, 1775 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on sched ule, as amended.in committee of the whole.........................1825 remarks of, in debate in reference to election of assistant postmaster... 54 remarks of, in debate on additional standing rules.................... 78, 79 I 56 HAINES, J. C., of Coo-k-Continued. remarks of, on resolution of instruc tion of Mr. Allen, of Cr,-twford, to committee on revenue in reference to taxation of church property used for other than religious pur poses..................... 213 remarks of, on the stiiec't"o'i'tlie dis tribution of committee reports.... 308 resolution in reference to municipal corporations....................... 212 resolution prohibiting railroad con solidation.......................... 2i2 substitute of, to section sixteen of report from committee on execa tive department.... i:1,11:11,i,, 782 substitute of, to see ion six r - port from committee on finance....1783 substitute of, to sections three and four of report from committee on municipal corporations............ 1674 substitute of, to sections one and two of report from committee on mu nicipal corporations, as amended in comniittee of the whole.... 1723 1724 substitute of, to section 3 of report from committee on railroad corpo. rations, as amended in committee of the who.',e...................... 1718 INDEX. 57 HAINES, E. M., of Lake-Continued. resolution in reference to use of su preme court library............... 782 resolution in reference to veto mes s a lge s................................ 153 resolution of instruction to commit tee on education in reference to public school fund................ 281 resolution of instruction to commit tee on federal relations in reference to ratification of fifteenth amend ment.............................. 165 resolution of instruction to. commit tee on judiciary in reference to con sidering railroads as common car riers, &c.......................... 148 resolution of instruction to commit tee on legislative department, in reference to immigration of colored people............................ 1677 resolution of instruction to commit tee on manufactures and agricul ture in reference to restriction of landed estate......................1104 resolution of instruction to cotmmit remittee on painting and binding in reference to furnishing state maps to convention............. 192 resolution of instruction to commit — tee on revision and adjustment in reference to immigration of colored people.........1.1649 resolution to appoint committee to ascertain the appropriations of mo ney made by general assembly since organization. 72, 74 ~~~1862.80 1862.............................. 80 resolution to elect commissioner of agriculture and statistics.......... 212 resolution to furnish additional post age stamps to convention......... 180 substitute of, to additional section offered by Mr. Browning to report firom committee on miscellaneous - subjects in reference to divorce...28 1208 substitute of, to additional section offered by Mr. Wall to report from committee on legislative depart ment,, as amended in committee of the whole......................... 935 substitute of, to amendment of Mr. Skinner to section 39 of report from committee on judiciary......1178 substitute of, to section 31 of report - from committee on judiciary.......56 1170 remarks of, on resolution of Mr. Archer, in refe rence to printing c er tain articles of the constitution...1130 remarks of, on resolution of Mr. Cam eron in reference to the transfer of townships......................... 192 remarks of, on resolution of Mr. Wendling in reference to furnish ing additional postage stamps to secretary of convention........... 367 remarks of, on resolution of instruc tion of Mr. Wall to committee on roads and internal navigation in reference to -private roads......... 135 remarks of, on ru7les of convention in reference to township and county organization.................... 72, 74 remar-ks of, on the subject of conven tion printing. 1211 remarks of, on the subject of printing petitions, etc....................... 306 remarks of, on the subject of printing prayers offered in convention...... 140 remarks of, on the subject of the ref erence of article 14, concerning im migration of people of color, to a select committee.................. 82 remarks of, on submission of report from committee on right of suf frage.............................. 160 resolution in commemoration of the battle of New Orleans............. 128 resolution in reference to adjourn ment, sine die, of convention....... 1649 resolution in reference to the appro priation of private property for public use, etc.................... 155 resolution in reference to colored clergymen......................... 859 resolution in reference to county rep resentation....................... 116 resolution in reference to eminent domain.......................... 321 resolution in reference to executive vetoes............................ 90 resolution in reference to the forma tion of counties............... 180 resolution in reference to furnishing postage stamps to members of con vention................91, 344 resolution in reference to the incor'l poration of towns................. 155 resolution in reference to number of newspapers to be furnished to mem bers of convention................ 138 resolution in reference to oath of of fice............ 44, 49 resolution in reference to official terms and fees..................... 84 resolution in reference to payment of certain employes of conven tion.............................. 1208 resolution in reference to per diem of members of convention during re cess............................. 345 resolution in reference to publication of local and general laws.......... 116 resolution in reference to recess of convention......................... 866 resolution in reference to release of Ill. Central railroad company from certain obligations.................. 84 resolution in reference to the removal of county seats.................... 155 resolutmon in reference to rubight of suffrage.......................... 127 resolution in reference to sale and re demption of lands.........192 resolution in reference to salaries of public officers...........100 resolution in reference to statute lawvs of Illinois...,.................l 912 resolution in reference to submission of constitution.**f-..............~596 HALE, REV. MR. opening prayer of convention, offered by........- a-i —— et.o..o 9 prayer offered by.....................1p r f 9 155, 851 i, 2321318, 1388 1476,1526, 1676, 1758. HALL OF REPRESENTATIVES communication in reference to use of, for lecture......................9.. 798 petition in reference to use of, for lecture............................ 56 resolution of Mr. Allen, of Alexan der, to grant use of, for lecture.... 127 resolution of Mr. Anthony in refer ence to use of, for lecture..........1416 resolution of Mr. Bryan in referencea to use of, for lecture..............1608 resolution of Mr. Buxton in reference to use of, for lecture............... 345 'rresolution of Mr. Dement in reference to use of, for lecture.............. 1392 resolution of Mr. Goodell in reference to use of, for lecture............... 798 resolution of Mr. McDowell to refuse use of, for leoture..t....17,. I33...... 859 resolution of Mr. Merriam in refer ence to use of, for lecture.........o 615 resolution of Mr. Parks in reference to use of, for lecture... I.......... 704 resolution of Mr. Poage in reference to use of, for lecture.............. 429 resolution of Mr. Rice in reference to use of, for lecture................. 294 oiHANKINS, JOHN W.-(a Delegate from the Twenty-first Representative District.) amendment of, to section 31 of report from committee on legislative de partment....................... 558ba appointed member of committee on counties.......................... 75 appointed member of committee of investigation in reference to com munication from Secretary of State, in regard to stationery furnished to convention.......................1828 I t INDEX. 57'. HAINES, E. M., of Lake-Continued. remarks of, in reference to report from committee on right of suf frage..................... 857 remarks of, on additional sections to report from committee on legisla tive-department................... 743 remarks of, onadditionalsectionof ferred by Mr.Brown!Dg,toreport fromeommittee on miseell.,tueous subjects, in reference to divorce... 1208 remarks of, on communication froin Secretary of State, in r(:ference to stationery furnished to convention. 1816 remarks of, on election of President pro tem............................. 2 remarks of, on question of privilege. 320 1144 HANKINS, JOHN W. —Continued. appointed member of committ(-e on. penitentiary and reformatory!nF3ti tutions............................'t 5 appointed member of committee on retrenchment and reform..,....... 7,1, petition in reference to the formation of new counties, submitted by.... 757 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on judi ciary, as amended in committee of the whole...........:.............. 1485 remarks of, in debate in convention, on report from committee on right of suffrage, as amended in commit tee of the whole...... 1302 remaiks or, in debate on 'e'p'o'r't''f'r'o'm' committee on legislative depart ment.............................. 570 resolution in reference to compensa tion for private property appro priated for public use............... 192 resolution in reference to compen-. sation for private property appro pi-lated for public'use, reported back from committee on roads and internal navigation................ 257 resolution of instruction to judiciarv committee, in reference to taxinz lands of Illinois Central railroad in certain cases.................... 116 I-IANN,K ROBERT P.-(a Delegate from,,the Tenth Representative District.) amendment of, to line seven of see-. tion thirty-three, -of report from committee on legislative depart ment................... i' i.'' "... 587 amendment of, to section -a teen of report from committee on j udic- lary.1052 amendment of, to resolution of Mr. Allen, of Crawford, authorizing committee on legislative depart ment, to employ clerk.-... amendment of, to section twenty-one of report from committee on execu tive, as amended in committee of the whole..............1375 amendment of,' to sel'o'n's'i'w''nt'y eight and thirty-two of report from -committee on legislative de partment....................... 556,572 amendment of, to section one of re port from committee on miscella neous subjects, in reference to homestead exemptions............ 898 amendment of, to sections one and five of report from committee on right of suffrage, as amended in committee of the whole......1281, 1295 amendment of, to section 2 of report from omrnittee on state, county and municipal indebtedness, as amended in committee of the whole..... o........... i - - -:....... 1259 appointed member of co nmittee on electoral and representative re form..................... 75appointed member. of committee on revenue............................. 75 appointed member of committee on revision and adjustment........... 75 appointed member of committee on state institutions and public build-, ings.. 75 leave t,o,.,.,.,::1,94, 261 temarks of, in debate in convention, on report from committee on exec utive, as amended in committee of the whole.... 1377, 1383, 1384 remarks of, in e'b'a't'e"in'eonvent' n, on report from committee on judi ciary, as amended in committee of the whole......................... 1420 remarks of. in deba e in convention on report from committee on legis lative department, as amended in committee of the whole............ 932 933, 970, 911 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on right of suffrage, as amended in commit tee of the whole.............. 1295, 1303 remarks of, in debate on amendment to resolution of Mr. Allen, of Craw ford, authorizing committee on legislative department to employ clerk............................... 114 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on executive de 811 53 HART, JOSEPH.-Coatinued. remarks of, in debate i n convention on report from committee on judi ciary, as amended in committce of the whole.........................1432 remarks of, in debate on reports tromi mommi'tees F)n canal and canal lands and on internal improvements..... 448 remarks of, in debate or. report from committee on judiciary......1049, 1115 remarks of, in debate on report froma committee on legislative depart ment.............................. 662 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on miscellaneous cor porations, in reference to ware houses..............................1634 remarks of, in debate on report trom committee on miscellaneous sub jects, in reference to homestead ex emptions.......................... 897 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on township organiza tion............................... 877 remarks of, in debate on the subject of recess of convention..........6. 868 remarks of, on the subject of printing prayers offered in convention..... 140 resolution in reference to capital stock of railroads................. 321 resolution in reference to power of supreme court................. 31 hwo.. 321 HANNA, ROBERT P.-gCostinueld remarks of, in debate on report from committee on judiciary............ 1007 - 104'3, 1069 remarks of, in debate on report from. committee on legislative depart ment.............................. 497 500, 503, 524, 533, 556, 557 569, 572, 576, 577,: 668 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on revenue............. 1267 1268, 1274 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on state, county and .municipal indebtedness.... 835, 849, 850 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on township o,'ganiza tion............................ 875, 876 remarks of, in debate on resolutions of inquiry of Mr. Anthony to Audi tor of State in reference to rail roads......................... 912, 913 remarks of, in debate on the subject of printing debates................ 89 remarks of, on"presentation of report from committee on legislative de partment.......................... 292 remarks of, on resolution of Mr. Eng lish in reference to distribution of committee reports................. 308 remarks of, on resolution of inquiry to Secretary of State in reference to state printing, etc................. 68 remarks of, on the subject of the ref erence of preamble to committee.. 183 resolution in reference to election of delegate to convention in place of Hon. B. W. Henry................. 1031 resolution in reference to minority representation..................... 72 resolution in reference to printing de bates.............................. 90 resolution of inquiry to Secretary of State in reference to state printing, etc................................ 67 resolution of instruction to committee on accounts and expenditures of convention in reference to pay of chaplains.......................... 1029 substitute of, to section 4 of report. from committee on state, county and municipal indebtedness....835,849 HAY, MILTON —Continued. amendment of, to amendment of Mr. Vandeventen to additional section offered by Mr. Sedgwick to report from committee on right of suf frage, as amended in committee of the whole.........................129t amendment of, to articl, in re feirence to municipal s ubscriptions t capi ital stock of private corporations.1240 amendmentl of, to report from com mittee on public accounts and ex penditures in reference to future appropriations for state house..... 1773 amendment of, to resolution of Mr. Anthony in reference to order of signing constitution............... 1861 amendment of, to section 8 of report from committee on counties, as -mended in committee of the whole....................... 1518, 15.5 amendment of, to section 4 of report from committee on education, as amended in committee of the whole.............................. 1748 amendment of, to sections 12 and 16 of report from committee on execu tive department............... 780, 790 amendment of, to sections 26 and 27 of report from committee on execu tive, as amended in committee of the whole.................... 1386, 1387 amendment of, to section 2 of report from committee on future amend: ments, as amended in committee of the whole....................... 1595 amendment of, to sections 1, 18, 26 and 47 of report from committee on judiciary........... 975, 1138, 1107, 1186 amendment of, to sections 15, 36 and 48, of report from committee on judiciary, as amended in committee of the whole........... 1458, 1478, 1498 amendment of, to section 2 of report from committee on legislative de partment.......................... 5S amendment of, to section 4 of report from committee on miiunicipal cor pora.,ions, as amended in commit tee of the whole................... 1724 amendment of, to section 1 of report from committee on revenue....... 1243 amendment of, to section 5, of report from committee on revenue, as amended in committee of the whole.............................. 17 74 amendment of, to section 1 of report from committee on right of suffrage, as amended in committee of the whole............................. 12 83 amendment of, to section 2 of report from committee on schedule, as amended in committee of the whole............. amendment of, to section four of re port from committee on state, county audinunicipal indebtedness 848 amendment of, to section two of re port from committee on state, county and municipal indebted-, ness, as amended in committee of: the whole.............125t appointed member of committee of investigation in reference to com munication from Secretary of State, in regard to stationery fur nished to convention..........1828 appointed member of comnmittee on electoral and representative reform 75 appointed member of committee on judicial divisions of the state....1103 appointed member of judiciary com mittee............... 5 appointed member of commnittee on municipal corporations........... 75 appointed memaber of committee on revenue................... 75 appointed member of committee to measure printed matter, etc., of convention................. 186S appointed member of committee to prepare address to the people of the state..............1783 communication in reference to the formation of new counties sub-. mitred by...........................19'/ petition in relerence to use of hall of representatives for lecture, submit tad by...................,..........% remarks ol, in debate in convention on report from committee on coun tics, as amended in committec of the whole.......... 15()7,151$, 1521 HARWOOD, ABEL-(a Delegate from the Fortieth Representative District,) appointed member of committee on accounts and expenditures of con vention........................... 93 appointed member of committee on canal and canal lands............. 75 appointed member of committee on public accounts anrd expenditures.. 75 appointed member of committee on roadsand internal navigation..... 75 appointed member of committee on township organization............75 leave of absene granted to....726, 1596 petitition in reference to judicialar ticle, submitted by.................1361 petition in reference to use of the bi ble in common schools, submitted by....................... 1030 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on edu cation, as amended in committee of the whole.................... 1749,1750 remarks of, in debate on reports from committees on canal and canal lands and on internal improvenments..... 312 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on legislative depa rt ment........................... 565, 699 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on revenue.............1246 remarks of, on announcement of death of Hon. Chas. Emmerson.......... 1334 resolution of condolence in reference to the death of Hon. Chas. Emmer son.............................. 1334 resolution of instruction to commit tee on legislative department, in reference to state senators, repre sentatives and census.............178 HART, JOSEPH —(a Delegate from the For ty-fourth Representative District.) amendment of, to section 27 of report from committee on judiciary, as amended in committee of the whole............................. 1468 amendment of, to section 2 of report from committee own legislative de partment, as amended in commit tee of the whole Dr.............. 940 amendment of, to substitute of Mr. -Wells to section 16 of report from committee on judiciary............ 1057 appointed member of committee on manufactures and agriculture...... 75 appointed member of comnmittee on miscellaneous subjects....;......... 75 appointed member of committee on penitentiary and reformatory insti tutions...,......................... 75 appointed member of committee on public accounts and expendi tures.............................. 75 leave of absence granted to......... 1234 petition in reference to observance of the Sabbath, submitted by........ 702 petition in reference to use of Bible in common schools, submitted by 702 protest in relation to the division of counties, submitted by............ 280 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on counties, as amended in wommittee of the whole......................143 HAY, MILTON-(a Delegate from the Twen tieth Representative District.) additional section to0 re-Dort from committee on counties, offered by..1365 amendment of, to lines 12, 27 and 28 of section 33 of report from com mittee on legislative department... 586 591 amendment of, to amendment of Mr. Anthony to section 13 of report from committee on judiciary, as amended in committee of the whole.............................1423 amendment of, to amendment of Mr. Atkins to section 4 of report from committee on counties, as amended in committee of the whole........5 fminfe cui 1535 amendment of, to amendment of Mr. Atkins to section 1 of report from committee on judiciary........... 989 amendment of, to amendment of Mr. Browning to section 26 of report from committee on judiciary, as amended in committee of the whole..................17........... 1467 i 1: INDE-,K.' 5s HARMON, JOHN Q.-' elected secretary of convention 51 HARLOW, GEO. ff. elected assistant secretary, pro tenz., 11 of convention....................'. 6 1 roll of convention called by.. ...... 1 ILIARSHA, REV. MR.. prayer offered by.................... 487 I-)X 5 9 remarks of, in deba e on resol ation of Mr. Wagner in reference to commit tee rooms.........................489 remarks of, in debate on resolution of Mr. Wells in reference to election of delegate to convention in place of Hon. Wm. H. Patterson, deceased. 204 remarks of, in debate on the subject ot printing prayers offered in con vention........................... 170 remarks of, in reference to article on canal and canal lands..............1833 remarks of, irt reference to order of business................ 858, 1198, 1209 remarks of, on communication from Secretary of State, in reference to stationery furnished to conven tion...............................1818 remarks of, on proposition of Mr. Browning, in reference to railroad and municipal indebtedness of Quincy, Ill........................ oee s e1866 remarks of, on report from commit tee on public accounts and expend itures, in reference to future appro priations for State house...........1773 remarks of, on resolution to appoint committee on accounts and ex penditures of convention.......... 92 report from committee on accounts and expenditures of convention, in reference to stationery furnished to convention, submitted by.......1862 report from committee on revenue, th submitted by...................... 321 report from committee on revenue, as amended, submitted by...........1012' resolution in reference to convention as amendedin commitee of theprint'ng...1207 rtos14 printing...........................1207 resolution in reference to printing debates........................... 90 resolution in reference to publication and distribution of proceedings of convention........................ 64 resolution in reference to reference of report from committee on accounts and expenditures of convention... 1790 resolution of instruction to commit tee on miscellaneous subjects, in reference to bribery on the part of public officers..................... 182 resolution of instruction to commit tee on revision and adjustment, in reference to article on canal and ca nal lands..........................1833 resolution of instruction to commit tee on revision and adjustment, in reference to election of supreme and additional circuit courtjudges.1800 resolution to adopt report from com mittee on printing and binding.... 124 resolution to appoint committee on accounts and expenditures of con vention............................ 92 resolution to postpone special order in reference to consideration of re port from committee on right of suffrage............................ 560 substitute of, to amendment of Mr. Hayes to section 1'of report from committee on judiciary, as amend ed in committee of the whole.....1397 substitute of;6to section 7 of report from committee on counties.1344, 1356 substitute of, to sections 5 and 18 of report from committee on judicia ry.............on p.ig.ndi,.1212, 1088 HAYES S. S.-(a Delegate from the Fifty ninth Representative District.):1 m-l additional section to report from committee on legislative depart ment, offered by................. 572 additional section to report from committee on municipal corpora tions, offered by..................1675 additional section to report from committee on railroad corporations, offered by........................1 658 amendment of, to amendment of Mr. Truesdale to section 1 of report from committee on railroad corporations.1640 amendment of, to amendment of Mr. Wall to rule 53....................1369 amendment of, to lines 13, 15, 26, 27 and 28 of section 33 of report from committee on legislative de partment...... th whl..9..1 amendment of, to resolution of Mr. r Fox in reference to payment of officers and members of conven tion.............................. 88 HAY, MILTON-Coutinued. remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on edu cation, as amended in committee of the whole......................... 1747 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on future amendments, as amended in com mittee of the whole.............. 1595 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on judi ciary, as amended in committee of the whole..................1397, 1403 1405, 1417,1418, 1423, 1429 1456,1457, 1467, 1472, 1500 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on leg islative department, as amended in committee of the whole........ 920, 945 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on rail road corporations, as amended in committee of the whole........... 1712 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on reve nue, as amended in committee of the whole.............. 1600, 1603, 1774 remarks of, in debate in conven tion on report from committee on right of suffrage, as amended in committee of the whole........... 1283 1285, 1286 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on sched ule, as amended in committee of the whole....................... 1831 remarks of in debate in convention on report from committee on state, county and municipal indebtedness, as amended in committee of the whole................. 1257, 1259, 1260 remarks of, in debate on article in reference to municipal subscrip. tions to capital stock of private corporations...................... 1241 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on banks and currency.1679 remarks of, in debate on report- from committee on counties............ 1343 1344, 1352, 1365 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on executive depart ment.....................762, 780, 790 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on judiciary.......975, 981 984, 1004, 1022, 1024, 1032 1046, 1049, 1050, 1057, 1070 1074, 1084, 1086, 1092, 1098 1107, 1137, 1138, 1186, 1223 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on legislative depart ment....586, 588, 590, 605, 635, 671, 684 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on mines and mineral interests in reference to the protec tion of the lives of miners......... 274 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on miscellaneous corpo rations.................... 1667 remarks of, in de bate on report from committee on miscellaneous sub jects in reference to homestead ex emptions......................89, 905 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on municipal corpora tionus...........'-..........1675,1676 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on primting and binding, in reference to printing and binding convention debates...................... 124 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on revenue..1197, 1250, 1252 1261, 1264, 1270, 1271, 1275, 1279 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on schedule....................1795 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on state, county and municipal-indebtedness..................... 848 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on township organiza. tion................ 878 remarks of, in debate on resolution in reference to printing debates.................. 90 remarks of, in debate on resolution of Mr. Allen, of Crawford, in reference to printing veto messages.................... 153 remarks of, in debate on resolut~ion of Mr. Church in reference to oath of office.:............................ 22 remarks of, in debate on resolution of Mr. Snyder in reference to furnish ing newspapers to members of con vention.................+........ M4 I —16 1 59 INDEX. HAY, MILTON-Continued. I-IAYES, S. S'-Continued. amendment of, to resolution of Mr. Hanna in reference to election of delegate to convention in -Dlace of Ho. B. W. Henry................ ilo3i amendment of, to section 6 of repor from committee on counties....... 1364 amendment of, to section 6 of report from committee on counties, as amended in committee of the whole............................ 150V amendment of, to sections 11, 23 and 26 of report from committee on judiciary............... 1039, 1097, 1111 amendment of to sections I and 16 of report froin'committee on judicia ry, as amended in committee of the whole....................... 1397, 1403 amendments of, to sections 26, 12 and 40 of report from committee on legislative department,.....556, 52.9, 622 amndment of, to section 18 of report from committee on legislative de partment, as amended in commit tee of the whole................... 944 amendment of, to sections 1 and 4 of report from committee on miscella. neous corporations, in reference to warehouses, as amended in commit tee of the whole.............. 1696,1700 amendment of, to section 1 of report from committee on miscellaneous subjects, in reference to homestead exemptions............... S97, 902, 904 amendment of, to section 1 of report from committee on municipal cor porations......................... 1673 amendment of, to section 5 of repor't from committee on railroad corpo rations............................ 1647 amendment of, to section 3 of report from committee on railroad corpo. rations, as amended in committee of the whole...................... 1720 amendment of, to section 11 of re. port from committee on schedule.,.1804 amendment of, to section 11 of report from committee on schedule, as amended in committee of the whole............................. 1828 amendment of, to section 4 of report, from committee on state, coudty and municipal indebtedness.... 8.44, 846 amendment 6f, to substitute to sec tion 7 of report from committee on legislative department, offered in - debate in convention on report from committee on legislative de partment, as amended in committee of the whole...................... 918 amendment of, to substitute of Mr. Allen, of Crawford, to section, 7 of report from committee on leg!E;la tive department................... 742 ame r. ndment of, to substitute of Medill to section 43 of report from committee on legislative depart ment............................. 694 amendment of, to substitute of Mr. Wait to section 8 of report from mmittee on counties a ilmen 60 INE HAYES, S. S.-Continued. remarks of, on communication from Secretary of State, in reference to stationery furnished to conven tion wo.................... to................. 1817 remarks of, on election of president of convention..................... 50 remarks of, on election of president, pro tern........................... 5 remarks of, on question of privilege. 678 remarks of, on report from committee on printing and binding in refer ence to publication of constitution.1706 remarks of, on resolution of Mr. Haines, of Lake, in reference to adjournment sine die of convention.1649 remarks of, on resolution of instruc tion of Mr. Goodhue to committee on revision and adjustment in ref ence to section 6 of article on right of suffrage........................1663 resolution in reference to article on county and city indebtedness.... 1190 resolution in reference to certain amendments to constitution...... 57 resolution in reference to certain amendments to constitution called e up and referred to appropriate com- 3 mittees........................... 77 resolution of condolence in reference to calamity at Richmond........ 1537 resolution of instruction to several committees in reference to conside ration of amendments to constitu tion.......................... n..... 81 substitute of, to amendment of Mr. Cross to section 7 of majority re port from committee on counties..1348 substitute of, to section 40 of report from committee on judiciary, as c amended in committee of the whole............................ 1481 HILDRUP, JESSE S.-Continued. appointed member of committee on finance............................ 75 appointed member of committee to prepare address to the people of the state.............................. 1783 leave of absence granted to. 128, 333, 987 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on railroad corporations1650 resolution of instruction to commit tee on judiciary, in reference to es tablishment of congressional dis tricts........................."I,: 192 resolution to amend constitution in reference to Ill. Central 7 per cent. tax............................... 193 HAYES, S. S.-Continued. remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on exec utive, as amended in committee of the whole..................;.....13 75 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on judi ciary, as amended in committee of the whole...................1396, 1420 1459, 1480, 1481, 1484, 1492 remarks of, in debate in convention, on report from committee on leg islative department, as amended in committee of the whole............919 944, 946, 947, 948, 951 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on mis. cellaneous corporations, in refer ence to warehouses, as amended in committee of the whole........... 1696 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on mis cellaneous subjects, in reference to homestead exemption, as amended in committee of the whole......... 1691 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on railroad corporations, as amended in committee of the whole........ 1720 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on revi sion and adjustment, on schedule..1850 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on banks and currency.1680 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on counties............ 1348 1359, 1360, 1363 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on executive depart. ment........................... 751, 773 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on iudiciary............ 984 990, 1192, 1024. 1027, 1056, 1058, 1085, 1088, 1089, 1097, 1098, 1099, 1111, 1227 9HEADING of stationery furnished to members of conv ention, resoluti on of Mr. Wells in reference to.............. 72 elected pres ident of convention................ 60 remarks of, in debate in convention o n report from committee on judicia ry, as amended in committee of the whole....................... 1488, 1489 remarks of, in debate on article in reference to subscriptions to capi tal stock of private corporations..1241 remarks of, in debate on reports from committees on canal and canal lands and on internal improve ments.................... 478 remarks oi, in debate on report from committee on judiciary............ 1146 1158, 1163, 1171, 1174 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on legislative depart ment.................. 574, 720 remarks of, in d n a t e on report from committee on revenue.......1255, 125 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on roads and internal navigation......................... 894 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on schedule............ 1808 remarks of, in reference to construc tion of five-minute rule........... 1625 remarks of, on election as president of convention..................... 50 remarks of, on election of president pro tem. of convention............ 5 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on legislative depart m ent.............................. 2............... 516 529, 559, 570, 571, 585, 586, 591, 602 618, 622, 623, 693, 694, 722, 723, 742 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on miscellaneous corpo rations............................1665 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on miscellaneous corpo rations, in reference to warehouses.1630 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on miscellaneous sub jects, in reference to hom estead ex emptions.................897, 904, 908 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on municipal corpora tions.............................. 1675 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on railroad corpora tions.........a'................... 165 8 -remarks of, in debate on report from committee on revision and adjust ment, on article on corporations... 1839 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on roads and internal navigation........................ 886 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on schedule.1794, 1801, 1804 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on state, county and municipal indebtedness.......... 833 834, 845, 848 remarks of, in debate on report from committree on township organiza tion............................... 875 remarks of, in debate on resolutions in reference to oath of office.....24, 48 remarks of, in debate on resolution of Mr. Washburn in reference to print ing resolutions.................... 89 remarks of, in debate on resolution of Mr. Wells to rescind resolution of inquiry to Auditor of State, in reference to expenses of General Assembly since 1862, and of consti tutional convention of 1862....... 80 remarks of, in reference to article on canal and canal lands.............. 1833 remarks of, in reference to construc tion of five-minute rule............ 1625 remarks of, in reference to effect of motion to adjourn................ 1549 remarks of, in reference to printing address and constitution..........1843 remarks of, on announcement of the death of Hon. H. W. Billings...... 1449, HENRY, BEVERLY W.-(a Delegate from the Thirteenth Representative District.) amendment of, to resolution of inqui ry of Mr. Craig to State Secretary, Treasurer and Auditor in reference to expenses of 25th and 26th gener al assemblies...................... 429 appointed member of committee on congressional apportionment..... 75 appointed member of committee on internal improvements........... 5 ei nf co mo. 75 appointed member of committee on legislative apportionment........ 75 appointed member of committee on public accounts and expenditures. 75 leave of absence granted to..........85t 96 resignation of, presented by Mr. Sny der............................... 965 resolution in reference to furnishing newspapers to members of conven tion...T............................ 57 resolution in reference to state, coun ty and town appropriation and credit............................ 180 resolution of Mr. Hanna in reference to election of delegate to conven tion in place of.................... 1031 HEWETT, REV. MR. prayer offered by.................... 1361 HOUR OF ADJOURNMENT OF CONVEN TION resolution of Mr. Browning in refer ence to............................ 141 amendment to constitution in r efer ence to planting trees on.......... 83 petition in reference to.............. 627 remarks of Mr. Medill on the subject of planting trees on.............. 83 report from committee on township organization, in reference to plant ing trees on....................... 161 public, resolution of Mr. Eldredge in reference to...................... 176 ILLINOIS- f communication on the subject of the constitution of.................... 11I statute laws of, resolution of Mr. Haines, of Lake, in reference to... 912 HILDRUP, JESSE S.-(a Delegate from the Fifty-first Representative District.) amendment of, to section 4 of report from committee on counties.......1329 appointed member of committee on banks and currency.............. reoM. 75 appointed member of committee on congressional apportionment...... 75 I I INDEX. -60 HI t HOLTON, REV. MR. prayer offered by................ 139, 451 HOME LEGISLATURE petition in reference to formation of. 156 HOMESTEADS debate on report from committee on miscellaneous subjects, in refer ei3ce o..................... 895 to 912 debate in convention on report from Fommittee on miscellaneous sub jects in reference to, as amended in committee of the whole..1689 to 1692 report from committee on miscella iaeous subjects, in reference to....-' 281 report from committee on miscella neous subjects. in reference to, re ferred to committee on revision and adjustment.................... 1692 resolution of Mr. Springer in refer ence to............................. 92 HIGHWAYS IIOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES resolution of Mr. Eldredge in refer ence to election of members of.... 151 ILLINOIS CENTRAL RIILROAD communication from Auditor of State in reference to earnings of..: I101 resolution of Mr. Haines, of Lwe',' in reference to release of, from certain obligations......................... 84 -resolution of Mr. HildrUD to amend constitution in reference to 7 per cent.tax of....................... 193 JDX. 61 ILLN C EN X - INETDES..r, NE /T as_IN INDEBTEDNESS-Continued. of state for railroads, resolution of Mr. Wells in reference to.........2. t72 INVESTIGATION appointment of committee of, in ref erence to communication from Sec retary of State in regard to sta tionery furnished to co nvention...1828 resolution of Mr. Parxs to refer re port from committtee on, on ac counts of Secretary of State to the Governor......................... 1865 INDEX to debates, &c., remarks on report from committee on printing and binding in reference to.............ven. 1865 to debates, &c., report from commit tee on printing and binding in ref erence to..........................1865 ILLINOIS CENTRAL RAILROAD-Contin ued. resolution of Mr. Pillsbury, request ing info rma tion from Auditor of State in reference to gross earnings of, since June 11, 1862............. 89 resolution of Mr. Washburin in refer ence to application of 7 per cent. tax of............................. 194 resolution of Mr. Washburn in refer ence to release of, from certain ob ligations.......................... 72 resolution of instruction of Mr. At kins to committee on railroad cor porations, to amend constitution in reference to obligations of......... 176 resolution of instruction of Mr. Church to judiciary committee in reference to..................... 80 resolution of instruction of Mr. De ment to finance committee in ref ence to taxing lands of............ 116 resolution of instruction of Mr. Han kins, to judiciary committee, in reference to taxing lands of, in cer tain cases......................... 116 resolution of instruction of Mr. Sharp to committee on revenue, in reference to....................... 193 resolution of instruction Mr. Under wood to committee on railroad corporations, in reference to....... 78 INDICTMENTS by grand jury and grand jury, resolu tion of Mr. Wall in reference to... 174 INVESTMENT OF FUNDS OF INSUR ANCE COMPANIES resolution of instruction of Mr. Pills bury to committee on miscellane ous subjects, in reference to....... 193 resolution of instruction of Mr. Pills bury to committee on miscellane ous subjects, in reference to, re- - ported back from committee on miscellaneous subjects............ 257 INDIVIDUALS resolution of Mr. Bryan in reference to considering railroad corporations a s................. s150 and associations, resolution of Mr. Buxton in reference to............ 1277 ISSUING OF STOCK by railroad corporations, resolution of Mr. Truesdale in reference to.... 213 INDUSTRIAL UNIVERSITY communication from Treasurer of, in reference to Superintendent of Public Instruction...................1 1451 INELIGIBILITY of office holders to general assembly or future conventions, resolution of Mr. Sedgwick in reference to........... 76 to future office, of public officers guilty of embezzlement and defal cation, resolution of Mr. Vandevent er, in reference to................. 116 JANITORS report from committee on accounts and expenditures of convention in reference to pay of................ 653 resolution of Mr. Wright in reference to pay of.......................... 627 JOEL A. MATTESON communication from Alex. Starne, trustee, etc., in reference to sale of lands belonging to................ 510 communication from Auditor of State in reference to the sale of lands be longing to........................ 510 resolution of inquiry of Mr. Anthony to Alexander Starne, trustee, etc., and to Auditor of State, in refer ence to lands belonging to......... 334 cer ta in, communication from Secreta ry of State furnishing............. 1814 INGMIRE, REV. MR. prayer offered by..177, 479, 894, 1277, 1702 communication in reference to cso...... 1477 commucationfrom Auditor of State in reference to.................... 487 resolution of Mr. Whiting in refer ence to........................... 100 resolution of instruction of Mr. Goodhue to committee on canal and canal lands, in reference-to. 81, 83 statistics in reference to cost of....... 366 IMMIGRATION OF COLORED PEOPLE — resolution of i nstruction of Mr. Haines, of Lake, to committee on legislative department, in reference to................................ 1677 resolution of instruction of Mr. Haines, of Lake, to committee on revision and adjustment, in refer ence to............................ 1649 resolution of instruction of Mr. Wells to doorkeeper, in reference to................................. 429 INSURANCE COMPANIES resolution of instruction of Mr. Pills bury to committee on miscellane ous subjects, in reference to invest ment of funds of...................2 193 resolution of instruction of Mr. Pillsbur.v to committee on miscella neous subjects, in reference to in vestment of funds of, reported back from committee on miscella neous subjects..................... 257 JOURNAL corection of, in reference to nomina tion of president pro tern........... 9 remarks of Mr. Haines, of Lake, in reference to form of................ 9 laws, etc., debate on report from com mittee on printing and binding, in reference to printing......... 245 to 249 252 to 256 laws, etc., report from committee on printing and binding, in refer ence to printing................... 245 of convention, report from commit tee on printing and binding, in ref erence to transcription of.........1 l5 of convention, resolution of Mr. Bromwell in reference to memorial page in............................ 1634 of convention, resolution of Mr. Van deventer in reference to binding... 176 of convention, resolution of instruc tion of Mr. Turner, to Secretary of State, in reference to publication of 213 INTERNAL GOVERNMENT OF STATE resolution of Mr. Cummings in refer ence to the right of the people in regard to.......................... 281 INCORPORATION resolution of instruction of Mr. Rice to committee on legislature, in reference to special anid private acts of............................ 172 of towns, resolution of Mr. Haines, of Lake, in reference to.............. 155 INTERNAL IMPROVEMENTS, COMMIT TEE ON- a ppoin tment of..................... 75 debate on report from...........310 to 479 debate in convention on report from, as amended in committee of the whole....................... 484 to 487 report from, submitted by Mr. Whi ting......................... 256 report from, referred to committee on revision and adjustment........ 87 resolution of Mr. Haines, of Lake, in reference to the release of Illinois Central Railroad Company from certain obligations, referred to.... 84 resolution of Mr. Whiting in refer ence to Illinois & Michigan Canal, referred to........................ 100 JUDGE SAMUEL H. TREAT administration of oath of office to members of convention, by...... 47, 49 resolution of MAr. Turner, requesting to administer oath of office........ 4,5 JUDGES resolution of Mr. Medill in reference to compensation of................ 174 of circuit courts, resolution of in quiry of Mr. Atkins, to clerk of su preme court for third grand divi sion of state of Illinois in refer ence to reports of, in relation to amendments to the laws.......... 98 of circuit court, resolution of inqury of Mr. Atkins, to judges of su preme court, in reference to cer tain reports of.................... 323 of supreme court, remarks in refer ence to election of.......... 1799, 1800 of supreme court, resolution of Mr." Medill in reference to opinions of.. 174 of supreme court, resolution of in quiry to, of Mr. Atkins, in refer cnce to certain reports of circuit judges........................ # * *23 INTOXICATING LIQUORS — communication in reference to the sale of............................ 320 petitition in reference to the sale of. 344 451 report from committee on miscellane ous subjects, in reference to........1031 resolution of Mr. Fuller in reference to use of by State officials......... 192 resolution of Mr. Pillsbury, in refer ence to sale of................... 151 INDEBTEDNESS county and city, resolution of Mr. Hays, in reference to article on....1190 railroad and municipal, of Quincy, Illinois, proposition in reference to.1761 railroad and municipal of Quincy, Illinois, remarks on proposition in reference to...1761 to 1763, 1.866 to 1868 railroad and municipal, of Quincy, Illinois, resolution of instruction of Mr. Peirce to committee on revis ion and adjustment in reference.,to proposition in regard to.......... 1814 and revenue of state, resolution of Mr. Wells in reference- to......... 72 state and other, to public schools, communication from Auditor of State in reference to.......... **f* 153 INDEX. 61 JANITOR to senate chamber, resolution of Mr. King in reference to appointment of................................. 1234 ILLINOIS CONFERENCE of the M. E. Church, communication from on tne su'bject of sectarian appropriations..................... 11 ILLINOIS AND MICHIGAN CANAL INFORMATION NK IMPOSITION by railroads or other corporations, resolution of instruction of Mr. Bromwell to committee on legisla ture in reference to................ 84 .IMPRISONMENT FOR DEBT resolution of Mr. Cummings in refer ence to........................... 334 INCREASE of official fees during term of office, I resolution of Mr. Underwood in reference to....................... 138 INDEX. JUDICIARY, COMMITTEE ON-Continued. communication in reference to par doning power and divorces, refer red to............................ 167 communication in reference to sepa rate submission of judiciary article, referred to........................1129 communication in reference to the subject of a code, referred to...... 451 debate on report from........974 to 1228 debate in convention on report from, as amended in committee of the whole..................... 1393 to 1501 ordinance relating to privileges of members of convention, referred to................................. 93 petition in reference to' circuit court of Will county, referred to.. 235 petition in reference to Cook county sjudiciary, referred to............ 965 petition in reference to the courts of Cook county, referred to.......1040 petition in reference to jurisdiction of justices of the peace, referred to................................. 344 petition in reference to landlords, etc., referred to................... 726 petition in reference to masonic in scriptions on public buildings, etc., reterred to....................320 petition in reference to proposed changes in the judiciary system, re ferred to.....................320 petition in reference to supreme court reporter, referred to.....250, 894 proposed amendments to constitu tion, relative to Cook county judi ciary, referred to................I. 96 proposed amendments to constitu tion relating to fees, etc., referred to..........................9...... 97 remonstrance in reference to propos ed system of Cook county judiciary, referred to........................1012 report from, submitted by Mr. Skin- r nier................................ 852 report from, in reference to eminent domain, submitted by Mr. Church. 703 report friom, referred to committee on revision and adjustment........1500 resolution of Mr. Anderson in refer ence to further consideration of re port from.....................187 resolution of Mr. Anthony in refer ence to Lake and Dearborn parks, referred to........................ 154 resolution of Mr. Archer in refer ence to county courts and their ju risdiction, taken up and referred to................................. 88 resolution of Mr. Atkins in reference to eminent domain, referred to.... 85S resolution of Mr. Bromwell in refer ence to right of appeal, referred to 76 resolution of Mr. Bromwell in refer ence to salaries of state officials, re ferred to.......................... 282 resolution of Mr. Browning in refer ence to divorces, referred to....... 128 resolution of Mr. Cary to postp one of Coo count, memoial inrefer-further consideration of section 39caresec......... 14 ence t...................1077 of report from...................1180 rslto fisrcint,o r of Cok conty, etiton inrefeence resolution of Mr. Cody in reference to iakn,i eeec otxn to.......................965 committee room of...............988 ladofIlniCetaralodi of Cok couty, rmarkson sumis- resolution of Mr. Eldredge in refer- crancss.........1 sionof emoialin efeenc to...677 ence to eminent domain, referred rslto fisrcint,o r erence to proposed system0o......102 t........................... 7138 lirp nrfrec oetbih subjct, esoutio ofMr. ros in ef- resolution of Mr. laines, of Lake, inmetocogesoaditit..19 erence t speechmaking nd vot-reference to official terms and fees, rslto fisrcint,o r lug on...................1061 referred to........................84 Kn,i eeec opeupin resolution of Mr. ilart in reference tooflwofatiSttorcroa systm, ptiton i refrene topro-320 power of supreme court, referred to 321 tinpoedns........1 pose chages n.................resolution of Mr. McDowell in refer- rslto fisrcint,o r ence to 15th amendment, referred Kn.i eeec o urm JUDICIARY, COMMITTEE ON- ~to 17 or..............................15 resolution of Mr. M~edill in reference rslto fisrcint;o amendent t consitutin in efer-to compensation of judges, referred Moe ocmiteo eea e ence ~~~~~~~~~to coiiaino as t.,t...........................1.. 74 ltosi eeec osceso refered to................193 resolution of Mr. Mediii in referenceta,rfreto........9 appoinment o................75 to opinions of supreme court judges, rslto fisrcint,o r articlein refrence o eminnt do-referred to.......................174 Plsuyt mn osiuini main in ~~~~~~~regadsoralrasree- rsution of Mr. Parker in reference rfrnet or fcmo red to....................262 to future revision of constitution, aset.......... 15 article on judiciary, ~~referred to.....17 eerdt.................... 176 rslto risrcint,o r commuicatin In eferece tocur- resolution of Mr. Rice in reference toShr,ireeectomcais tam reorts f ciruit juges, efer-fees of county officers, referred to.. 116 lin.............9 red t....................365 resolution of Mr. Scholfield in refer- rslto fisrcint,o r commuicaton inrefeence o cicuitence to passage of local or specialShr,tamn cosiuini courts refered t............627 laws in certain cases, r~erred to.... 127 rfrnet hrfs......6 communcationin refrence o the resolution of Mr. Scholfield in refer- rslto fisrcint,o r judicial system ~~~ofCoconyreence to rights of private corpora-Unewo,ireeectoftr ferre to..................431 tions, taken up and referred to.. 58 aedettoontttn.......94 JUDICIARY, COMMITTEE ON-Continued resolution of Mr. Sha rp authorizing clerks of circui t courts to act as re corders in certain cases, referred to................................. 213 resolution of Mr. Snyder in reference to manner of election of master in chancery, referred to............ 92, 100 resolution of Mr. Turner in reference to justices of supreme court, refer red to.............................. 98 resolution of Mr. Vandeventer in ref erence to testimony of criminals, referred to........................ resolution of Mr. Wendling in refer ence to amendment of pleadings, etc., referred to.................... 261 resolution of Mr. Wright in reference to place of holding supreme court, referred to........................ 100 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Abbott in reference to jurors and verdicts in criminal trials.......... 615 resolution of instruction to.of Mr.lAn bott, in reference to rules of evi dence............................. 858 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Archer, in reference to rules of evi dence.............................78 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Bayne, in reference to abolishment of grand jury.................... 176 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Billings, in reference to the estab lishment of local courts........... 78 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Bromwell, in reference to eminent domain in regard to railroads...... 487 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Bromwell, in reference to uniform ity of laws throughout the State.. 116 JUDICIAL article, petition in reference to......1361 circuits, resolution of instruction of Mr. Sharp to committee on judi cial circuits, to amend constitution in reference to.................... 212 division of the state, resolution of Mr. Medill in reference to.......... 1010 division of the state, resolution of in struction of Mfr. Buxton to commit tee on judicial circuits in reference to................................. 1277 oaths, extraordinary, petition in ref erence to....................... 1012 system of Cook county, communica tion in reference to................ 481 resoluto tnsrtion of instruction to, of Mr. Church, in reference to control of railroads in respect to rates of transportation.................... 148 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Church, in reference to Illinois Cen tral railroad....................... 80 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Craig, in reference to chancery business............................ 93 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Cross, in reference to the abolish ment of grand juries.............. 262 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Cross, in reference to prosecuting attorneys.......................... 211 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Cummings, in reference to railroad tariffs............................. 192 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Eldredge, in reference to railroad fares.............................. 84 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Eldredge, in reference to revision of State laws......................... 194 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Haines, of Lake, in reference to considering railroads as common carriers, etc........................ 148 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Hankins, in reference to taxing lands of Illinois Central railroad in certain cases....................... 116 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Hildrup, in reference to establish- - ment of congressional districts.... 19 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. King, in reference to presumptions of law or fact in State or corpora tion proceedings................... 212 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. King, in reference to -upreme court.............................. 213 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Moore, to committee on federal re lations in reference to succession tax, referred t o.................... 92 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Pillsbury to amend constitution in reference to court of common pleas,etc.......................... 150 resolution of instruction to,'of Mr. Sharp, in reference to mechanics' liens.............................. 193 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Sharp, to amend constitution in reference to sheriffs............... $67 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Underwood, in reference to future amendments to constitution....... 94 JUDICIARY report from committee on revision and adjustment, on article on...... 1810 department, article on............... 178 debate on report from committee on revision and adjustment, on article on......................... 1810 to 1813 article, communication in reference to separate submission of.............1129 article, proposed amendments to..... 1130 article, resolution of instruction of Mr. Neece to committee on revis ion and adjustment, in reference to section 11 of...................... 1763 of Cook county, amendments to con stitution relative to............... 96 of Cook county, memorial in refer ence to............................ 1077 of Cook county, petition in reference to............................... 965 of Cook county, remarks on submis sion of imiemorial in reference to....1077 of Cook county, remonstrance in ref erence to proposed system of.....:1012 subject, resolution of Mr. Cross in ref erence to speech-making and vot ing on.............................1061 system, petition in reference to pro posed changes in.................. 320 .62 JUDGES-Continued. of supreme court, and additional cir cuit courts, resolution of instruc tion of Mr. Hay, to committee on re vision and adjustment, in reference to election of.... 1800 of supreme court,;s'o'it"lo'n" of in struction of Mr. Medill, to com paittee on revision and adjustment, in reference to election of......... 1678 JUDICIAL CIRCUITS, COMMITTEE ON appointment of..................... 75 communication in reference to the action of clerks of circuit courts as recorders, in certain ca,-es, referred to........................ 289 ' "' "reference resolution of Mr. Bay in to circuit court litigation, referred to................................. 134 resolution of Mr. Wheaton in refer ence to circuit courts, referred to.. 89 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Buxton in reference to judicial di vision of state..................... 1277 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Sharp to amend constitution in ref erence to judicial circuits......... 212 JUDICIAL DIVISIONS OF THE STATE, COMMITTEE ON appointment of...................... 1103 report from, submitted by Mr. Me dill................................ 1208 JUDICIARY, COMMITTEE ON amendment to constitution in refer ence to codification of laws, etc., referred to............ I... 193 appointment of................:... 75 article in reference to emi do main in regard to railroads, refer red to............................. 262 article on judiciary, referred to...... 178 Communication In reference to cer tain reports of circuit judges, refer red to............................. 365 communication in reference to circuit courts, referred to................. 627 communication in reference to the judicial system of Cook county, re ferred to........................ 431 -~~~~~~~IDX 6 KING, ROBERT A.- Continued. remarks of, in debate an motion of Mr. Church to refer to committee of the whole, substitute to portion of reports from committees on ca nal and canal lands and on internal improvements..................... 334 remarks of, in debate onfreports from committees on canal and canal lands and on internal improve ments............................. 363 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on education.........1..1739 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on judiciary............ 1045 1073, 1080, 1090, 1098 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on legislative depart ment................. 535, 658, 710, 711 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on revenue................. 1265 remarks of, in debate on the subject of convention printing............ 1206 remarks of, in debate on the subject of printing prayers offered in con vention........................... 170 remarks of, in reference to order of business....................... 854, 858 remarks of, on announcement of the death of Hon. HI. W. Billings......45 m.aofmAxd 1450 remarks of, on resolution to amend rule 44, in regard to order of busi ness, r............... 169 remarks of, on submission of report from committee on accounts and expenditures of convention........ 1209 resolution in reference to appoint mernt of janitor to senate chamber.1234 resolution in reference to convention postage............................ 1763 resolution in reference to furnishing postage stamps to members of con vention............................1320 resolution in reference to the mova ble property of railroads, etc.....R. 172 resolution in reference to movable property of railroads, reported back from committee on miscellane ous corporations and referred to committee on railroad corpora tions................................ 210 resolution in reference to per diem of members and officers of conventionl425 resolution in reference to proposals for convention printing............ 67 resolution in reference to publication of constitution and address........ 1845 resolution of instruction to commit tee on accounts and expenditures of convention, in reference to un necessary employes of convention..1178 resolution of instruction to judiciary committee in reference to presump tions of law or fact in state or cor poration proceedings.............. 212 resolution of instruction to judiciary committee in reference to supreme court..................................... 212 resolution of thanks to Hlon. Elliott Anthony.......................... 564 resolution to amend rule 44, in resard to order of business............169... 9 resolution-to amend rule 44, in regard to order of business, called up and referred to committee on rules.... 173 resolution to refer accounts of con vention to committee on accounts and expenditures of convention... 578 substitute of; to section 18 of report from committee on judiciary, as amended in committee of the whole............................. 1463 JUSTICES of the peace, communication in ref erence to.......................... 223 of the peace, petition in reference to jurisdiction of..................... 344 of supreme court, resolution of Mr. Turner in reference to.............. 98 LANDS petition in reference to fencing......1062 belonging to Joel A. Matteson, com mmrication from Alexander Starne, trusteee, etc. in reference to the sale of............................. 510o belonging to Joel A. Matteson, com munication from Auditor of State, in reference to....................... 510 belonging to Joel A. Matte son, r es o lution of inquiry of Mr. Anthony to Alexander Starne, trustee, etc., and to Auditor of State, in refer ence to............................ 334 of Illinois Central railroad company, resolution of instruction of Mr. De ment to finance committee in refer ence to taxing.................... 116 of Ill. Central R. R. company, resolu tion of instruction of Mr. IHankins to judiciary committee in reference to taxing in certain cases......... 116 LANDED ESTATE resolution ofinstruction of Mr. Haines of Lake, to committee on man ufactures and agriculture in refer erence to restrictions of............ 1104 KING, ROBERT A.-(a Delegate from the Twenty-second Representative District.) amendment of, to report from com mittee on printing and binding in reference to constitution and ad dress, &c..................... 1847 amendment of, to report from com mittee on rules, in reference to the adoption of rule 50, limiting spe eches...............12........... 490 amendment of, to resolution of Mr. Bryan in reference to adjournment sine d i e of convention.............. 1859 a mendment of, to resolution of Mr. Church in reference to morning sessions of convention............. 1233 amendment of, to sections 1 and 7 of report from com mittee on co)un ties.......................... 1324, 1346 amendment of, to sections 1 and 5 of repo r t f rom committee on coun ties, as amended in committee of the whole.................... 1521, 1537 amendment of, to sections 3, 6, 30 and 37 of report from corrmm-ittee on legislative department.......... 501 721, 558, 638 amendment of, to section four of re port from committee on revenue...1266 amendment of, to substitute of Mr. Wells to report from committee on printing and binding, in refer ence to printing constitution and address.....................1843 appointed member of committee on bill of rights...................... 75 appointed member of committee on military affairs.................... 75 appointed member of committee on: miscellaneous subjects............ 75 excused from serving on committee on schedule....................... 1827 leave of absence granted to........... 253 864, 1502 petition against female suffrage, sub mitted by...................... 1502 petition on the subject of counties, submitted by..........1324 proposition in reference to removal of county seats, submitted by.....1707 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on exec utive, as amended in committee of w the whole........................1372 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on judi ciary, as amended in committee of the whole.............. 1414, 14,63, 1464 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on lis cellaneous subjects, in reference to homestead exemption, as amended in committee of the whole........ 1690 remarks of, in debate on article in reference to municipal subscrip tions to capital stock of private corporation s.....................1240. I 17 LANDLORDS &c., petition in reference to......... 726 LA SALLE MINERS communication in reference to...... 306 LAWS amendment to constitution in refer ence to codification of............. 193 communication in reference to the publication of..................... 289 publication of, and law of libel, etc., m memorial in reference to.......... 281 resolution of Mr. Cody in reference to titles and rev ision of............ 116 publication of, in county newspapers, resolution of Mr. Sedgwick in ref erence to.......................... 212 resolution of inquiry of Mr. Atkins to clerk of supreme court for third grand division of State of Illinois in referenee to reports of judges of circuit courts in relation to amnend ments to......................... 98 ot State, resolution of instruction of Mr. Eldredge to committee on ju diciary it reference to revision of.. 194 local and general, resolution of Mr. Haines, of Lake, in reference to passage of........................ 116 local or special, resolution of Mr. Scholfield in reference to passage of in certain cases..:.............. 127 local or special, resolution of Mr. Sedgwick in reference to passage of, in certain cases................ 76 general and special, of cities, resolu tion of Mr Anthony in refereice to 154 KIRKPATRICK, A. G.-(a Delegate from the Thirty-third Representative District.) announcement of the death of....... 1228 appointed member of committee on canal and canal lands..M............ 75o appointed member of executive com mittee............................ 75 appointed member of committee on judicial circuits.................... 75 leave of absence granited to......... 9 lclr 96 remarks on announcement of deathS of......................... 1228 to 1230 resolution in reference to employ ment of clerks by standing commit tees.............................. 91 resolution of condolence of Mr. Craig in reference to the death of......1..228 I I I I IINDEX. 63 JUDICIARY, COMMITTEE ON-Continued. resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Whiting, in reference to preven tion of bribery in connection with public affairs....................... 93 KIRKPATRICK, A. G.-Continued. resolution of Mr. Craig in reference I to election of delegate to conven tion in place of.................... 1231 LABOR Penitentiary communication in ref, erence to the Sale of products of... 451 JURISDICTION of county courts, resolution of Mr., Archer in reference to............. 67 of county courts, resolution of Mr. Archer in reference to, takeia up and referred to committee on judi6iary. 88 justices of the peace, petition in ref erence to.......................... 344 LABORERS communication in reference to the protection of, etc................. 3og LAKE AND DEARBORN PARKS resolution of Mr. Anthony in refer ence to............................ 154 J'URORS and verdicts in criminal trials, reso lution of instruction of'or. Abbott to committee on judiciary, in ref erence to.......................... 615 LAND condemnation of for railroad pur pose,s, communication in reference to................................. 389 resolution of Mr. Hai,nes, of Lake, in reference to sae and redemption of................................. 192 JURY VERDICTS in civil cases, resolution of inrtruc tion of Mr. Underwood to conimit tee on bill of rights in reference to. 858 LATHROP, J. S. elected doorkeeper of convention... 52 leave of absence granted to.....244, 1242, LAW OF LIBEL and publication of laws, &c., memo rial in reference to................ 281 64 INE........... LAWS-Continued. general and special, resolution of in struction of Mr. Peirce to commit tee on legislative department, in reference to....................... 98 laws, statute of Illinois, resolution of Mr. Haines, of Lake, in reference to 912 granted to Mr. Wagner........194, 615 Mr. Wall.............. 56, 851 Mr. Washburn...453, 483, 873 Mr. Wells........333, 864,1587 Mr. Wheaton.....167, 236, 487 831, 851, 873 Mr. Whiting............. 782 Mr. Wright...... 155, 253, 864 resolution of Mr. Atkins in reference to granting....................... 859 resoluition of Mr. Turner in reference to granting....................... 832 LEC TURE- communication in reference to the use of hall of representatives for.. 798 petition for the use of hall of repre sentatives f o r..................... 56 on female suffrage, remarks of Mr. Medill in reference to.............1392 resolution of Mr. Allen, of Alexander, to grant use of hall of representa tives for.......................... 127 resolution of Mr. Anthony in refer ence to use of hall of representa tives for..........................1416 resolution of Mr. Bryan in reference to use of hall of representatives for................................ 1608 resolution of Mr. Buxton in reference to use of hall of representatives for................................ 345 resolution of Mr. Dement in refer ence to use of hall of representatives for............................... 13 92 resolution of Mr. GMcodell in refer ence to use of hall of representa tives for........................... 798 resolution of Mr. McDowell to refuse use of hall of representatives for.. 859 resolution of Mr, Merriam in refer ence to use of hall of representa tives for............................ 615 resolution of Mr. Parks in reference to use of hall of representatives for................................ 704 resolution of Mr. Poage in reference to use of hall of representatives f o r................................. 429 resolution of Mr. Rice in reference to use of hall of representatives for.. 294 LEGISLATIVE DEPARTMENT, COMMIT TEE ON-WContinuete. communication in reference to par doning power and divorces, referred to................................ 167 debate on report from.......... 490 to 743 debate in convention o n r eport from, as amended in committee of the whole........................ 917 to 972 petition in reference to the evils of adulteration, referred to........... 306 petition in reference to the formation of a home legislature, referred to.. 156 report from, submitted by Mr. Allen of Crawford....................... 291 report from, as amended, submitted by Mr. Allen, of Crawford......... 393 report from, referred to committee on revision and adjustment........... 972 resolution of Mr. Allen, of Crawford, authorizing to employ clerk..... 113 resolution of Mr. Anthony in refer ence to removal of officers, refer red to........................ 154 resolution of Mr. Bayne in reference to divorces, referred to............ 91 resolution of Mr. Bryan in reference to election and compensation of state officers, referred to........... 83 resolution of Mr. Cary in reference to sectarian appropriations, refer red to............................. 85 resolution of Mr. Church in reference to the state as defendant in courts of law or equity, referred to...... 175 resolution of Mr. Codv in reference to titles and revision- of laws, refer red to............................. 116 resolution of Mr. Haines, of'.lake, in reference to county representation, re,erred to...............a'............. 116 resolution of Mr. Haines, of Lake, in reference to passage of local and general laws,-referred to.......... 116 resolution of Mr. Henry in reference to state, county and town appro priation and credit, referred to..... 180 resolution of Mr. Pillsbury in refer ence to sale of intoxicating liquor, referred to........................ 151 resolution of Mr. Scholfield to amend constitution in reference to extra compensation of public officers, re ferred to.......................... 154 resolution of Mr. Sedgwick in refer ence to ineligibility of office-hold ers to general assembly and future conventions, referred to............ 76 resolution of Mr. Snyder in reference to legislative assembly, referred to. 100 resolution of Mr. Snyder in reference to legislative assembly, reported back from.................. 141 resolution of Mr. Springer in refer ence to compensation of members of general assembly, referred to... 128 resolution of Mr. Tincher in refer eince to state indebtedness, referred to................................. 93 resolution of Mr. Truesdale in refer ence to the issuing of stock by rail road corporations, referred to.................. 218 resolution of Mr. Underwood in ref erenec to increase of official fees during term of office, relerred to................ 138 resolution of Mir. Underwood in ref erenee to offcial fees, referred to.................179 resolution of Mr. Vaudeventer in ref erence to ineligibility to future office of public officers guilty of embezzlement and defalcationl, re ferred to............... 11I6 resolution of Mr. Wagner in reference to diviorces, referred to...................... 282 resolution of Mr. Wagner in reference to the passage of bills over veto, referred to........................... 213 resolution of Mr. Wait to amnend constitution in reference to 1;.mita tation of entail, refbrred to................... 194 resolution of Mr. Wells in reference to bribery in general assembly, re ferred to..........................1477 resolution of Mr. Wells to establish bureau of statistics, referred to.... 257 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Akllen, of Alexander, in reference to county representation................... 82 resolutionl of instruction to, of Mr. Anderson, in reference to future creation o~f offices by the legisla ture................. 191 LEAVE OF ABSENCE granted to Mr. Allen, of Alexander.. 194 487, 851 Mr. Allen, of Crawford.. 1009 Mr. Anderson............. 333 Mr. Anthony.........253, 858 Mr. Archer.....453, 1156, 1634 Mr. Atkin s............... 155 194, 1077, 1685 Mr. Bayne................ 965 Mr. Benjamin............ 859 Mr. Billings............ 96, 167 Mr. Bowman... 573, 1139, ]575 Mr. Bromwell......... 244, 573 Mr. Brown................ 479 Mr. Browning....... 851, 1234 Mr. Bryan...599, 851, 965,1077 Mr. Buxton.......... 167, 1338 Mr. Cameron............. 483 Mr. Cary............. 758, 865 Mr. Church............... 289 Mr. Coolbaug h........... 77 128, 253, 453, 851 Mr. Craig............. 261, 864 Mr. Cross................. 851 Mr. Cummings........ 210, 758 Mr. Dement.............. 194 Mr. Eldredge............. 195 483, 509, 894 Mr. Ellis............. 533, 1009 Mr. English.............. 194 333, 599, 864, 1077, 1839 Mr. Fox.................. 758 Mr. Fuller...............33, 510 Mr. Gamble.............. 726 Mr. Garard (assistant post master of convention)..1476 Mr. Goodell............. 333 Mr. Goodhue......... 236, 483 Mr. Haines, of Cook..... 77 96, 479, 599, 851 Mr. Haines, of Lake..253, 938 Mr. Hanna............ 194, 261 Mr. Hart.............. i1234 Mr. Harwood........726, 1596 Mr. Hayes........... 253, 1234 Mr. Henry................ 96 Mr. Hildrup.....128, 333, 987 Mr. King........253, 864, 1502 Mr. Kirkp,patrick........... 96 Mr. Lathrop (doorkeeper). 244 1_242 Mr. McDowell............ 8fi3 Mr. Moore...... 487, 782, 1575 Mr-. Neece................ 195 353, 758, 1009, 1502 Mr. Parker............... 77 Mr. Parks................ 533 Mr. Patterson............ 96 Mr. Perley...........289, 1596 Mr. Pillsbury............ 194 589, 965, 1077, 1234 Mr. Poage..333, 965, 1156, 1634 Mr. Rice........ 479, 895, 1575 Mr. Robinson.......183S, 1502 Mr. Ross............... 77, 912 Mr. Scholfield............ 253 Mr. Sedgwick............ 736 Mr. Skinner....261, 353, 1596 Mr. Snyder............... 1234 MIr. Springer............ 333 Mr. Sutherland.......333, 864,1596 Mr. Swain (assistant secre, tary)...............1011 Mr. Tincher.......... 128, 8.51 Pil. Truesdal e.......S6 831, 1234, 1338 Mr. Turner.............12.~4 M~r. Vandeve ntc r...... 23 J' 758, 1077 LEGAL rights, resolution of Mr. Goodell in reference to............................ 85 voters, resolution of Mr. Robinson to amend constitution in reference to eligibility to office of..............t 212 LEGISLATURE home, petition in reference to forma tion of............................ 156 remarks on report from committee on revision and adjustment, on ar ticle on.......................... 1789 report firom comnmitt ee on revision and adjustment, on article on..........1776 resolution of instruction of Mr. Ander son to committee on legislature in reference to future creation of offices by................................ 191 LEGISLATION bank, resolution of instruction of Mr. Craig to committee on banks and currency, in reference to........... 211 special, resolution of instruction of Mr. Peirce to committee on legisla tive department, in reference to... 212 LEGISLATIVE APPORTIONMENT, COM MITTEE ON appointment of..................... 75 resolution of Mr. Peirce in reference to ratio ot representation, referred to................................. 91 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY to....................... 100 Mr. ~ ~~ L G SL T V DEPARTMENT, 33, 8 4 1 9 re o u i n o Mr Sn d r i re e eCeOMMIT- o r W l s o etals LEGISLATIVE DEPARTMENT, COMMIT TEE ON amendment to constitution in refer ence to oath of office of members of general assembly, referred to...... 139 appointment of 75.................... 5 64 INDEX. LEAVE OF ARSENCE-Continued. LAWYERS AND PHYSICIANS communication in reference to use of - English language by, submitted by Mr. Sedgwick..................... 280 communication in reference to use of English language by, reported back I from committee on miscellaneous subjects........................... 857 LE.KRNING resolution of Mr. )3owman in refer ence to the encouragement of...... 211 INDEX. 65 LIMITATION- Continued. of entail, resolution of Mr. Wait to amend constitution in reference to. 194 of state indebtedness, resolution of Mr. Coolbaugh in reference to..... 150 LEGISLATIVE DEPARTMENT, COMMIT TEE ON —Continued. resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Arche r, in reference to publication of laws............................ 88 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Archer, to amend constitution in reference to the property of mar ried women........................ 177 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Atkins, in reference to amalgama tion................................ 211 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Atkins, in reference to salaries of state officials................. 260 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Bromwell, in reference to imposi tion by railroads and other corpo rations............................ 84 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Bromwell, in reference to quo ru.ms.............................. 172 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Cross, in reference to general as sembly........................... 211 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Ellis, in reference to sessions of general assembly and compensation of members....................... 83 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Fuller, in reference to number of members of general assembly...... 83 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Haines, of Lake, in reference to immigration of colored people....1677 resolution of instruction to, of- Mr. Harwood, in reference to state sen ators, representatives and census. 178 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Peirce, in reference to general and special laws....................... 98 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Peirce, in reference to special leg islation........................... 212 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Rice, in reference to special and pri vate acts of incorporation.......... 172 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Springer, in reference to property exempted from execution.......... 180 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Underwood, in reference to com pensation of members of legis lature and future conventions....... 78 resoluti,n of instruction to, of Mr. Vandeveouter, in reference to pun ishment for murder................. 282 MAkJORITY REPORT-Continued. from committee on military affairs, submitted by Mr. Cameron........ 293 from committee on municipal corpor. ations, submitted by Mr. Brown ing................................ 390 from committee on right of suffrage, submitted by Mr. Dement......157, 855 from committee on roads and internal navigation in reference to private roads, submitted by Mr. Perley.... 257 from committee on township organi zation, submitted by Mr. Peirce... 293 LINCOLN, ABRAHAM- and Stephen A. Douglas, compliment ary resolution of Mr. Tincher in reference to portraits of........... 178 LINES county and township, petition in ref erence to.......................... 679 LIQUORS intoxicating, communication in refer ence to the sale of................. 320 intoxicating, petition in reference to the sale of.....................344, 451 intoxicating, report from committee on miscellaneous subjects in refer ence to...........................1031 intoxicating, resolution of Mr. Fuller in reference to use of, by state offi cials.............................. 192 intoxicating, resolution of Mr. Pills bury in reference to sale of........ 151 LIQUOR LAWS prohibitory, petition in reference to..1621 MANNER of election of masters in chancery, resolution of Mr. Snyder in refer ence to.................... 92, 100, 745 of printing reports from committees, resolution of Mr. Allen, of Craw ford, in reference to................ 251 of submission of amended constitu tion to the people, resolution of Mr. Bryan in reference to......... 135 of submission of new constitution, communication in reference to.... 280 of submission of new constitution, resolution of instruction of Mr. Fox to committee on schedule, in reference to...................... 192 LITIGATION in Cook county for year 1869, re, marks of Mr. Anthony on introduc tion of statistics of.............................97 in Cook county for year 1869, statis tics of............................. 97 LIVES OF MINERS debate on report from committee on mines and mineral inte:ests, in ref-: erence to the protection of..2(4 to 276 report from committee on mines and mineral interests, in reference to the protection of.................. 210 LOCAL benefit, resolution of Mr. Washburn in reference to general taxation for 194 courts, resolution of instruction of Mr. Billings to judiciary commi.t tee, in reference to the establish ment of........................... 78 and general laws, resolution of Mr. Haines, of Lake, in reference to passage of......................... 116 and special laws, resolution of Mr. Scholfield in reference to passage of in certain cases................. 127 or special laws in certain cases, res olution of Mr. Sedgwick in refer ence to passage of................. 76 report of committee on prtinting and binding, in re'erence to furnishing to convention..................... 145 resolution of Mr. Turner in reference to farn.shinz convention with..... 136 resolution of Mr Wells to purchase 200 copies of...................... 145 resolution of instruction of Mr. CaWy to committee on printing and bind ing, in reference to................ 137 LEVYING OF TAXES resolution of Mr. Buxton, in refer ence to............................ 127 MANUFACTURES AND AGRICULTURE, COMMITTEE ON amendment to constitution on the subject of plantinYg trees o n high - ways,s referred to.................. 83 appointment of..................... 7 commnunication in reference to plant ing trees on highways, referred to. 236 communication from state agricultu rail society, in reference to the est,ab lishmnent of state bureau of statis tics, referred to................. 129 memorial in reference to damages committed by animals, referred to. 873 petition in reference to fencing lards, referred to........................ 1062 resolution of Mr. Bayne, in reference to granting of franchises in certain cases, referred t o.................. 654 resolution of Mr. Church, in reference to drains, referre,dl to.............. 2t;2 resolution of Mr. Sedgwick in refer ence to exemption of manufactur ing companies from taxation, re ferred t o........................... 100 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Haines, of Lake, in reference to re striction of landed estate.......... 1104 LOCATION of national capital, communication in reference to.................... apontt1.79 of national capital, memorial in red erence to.......................... 211 of national capital, petition in refer o e coce to...................... 280 of national capital. p eamble, resolu tion of MMr. Ellis and telegram in reference to...................7..... 5.... o of national capital, resolution of Mr. Weils in reference to.............. 213 of offices of railroad corporations in this state, resolution of Mr. Antho sny in reference to................. 148 of railroad offices, petition in refer ence to....... 289, 344, 365, 451, 510, 589 LIBERTY personal article in reference to, sub mitted by Mr. Snyder.............. 177 petition on the subject of............ 250 religious, resolution of Mr. Perley in reference to......................... 179 LOMBARD, REV. MR. prayer offered by.............. 194 873, 912, 1299, 1621 MAINTENANCE OF STATE UNIVERSI TY resolution of Mr. Merriam in refer ence to............. 9. M.... U 193 MAJORITY REPORT — from committee on counties, submit ted by Mr. Craig................... 306 from committee on federal relations,. P submitted by Mr. Peircee.......... from cornmittee on fature amend ments, submitted by Mr. Archer... 391 INDEX. 65 MAJORITY AND' AINORITY REPRESEN TATIOIN resolution of instruction of Mr. Benja min to committee on electoral and representative reform in reference, to................................. 1'i'5 MANAGEMENT of prisons, article in reference, to..... 153 of prisons, resolution of Mr. Wa-,ner in reference to..................... 321 of state penitentiary, resolution of Mr. Wall in reference to........... 679 .MANUALS remarks on report of committee on printing and binding, in reference to ftirnli-shiiag to convention.... 145, 146 1147 LEGISLATIVE EXPENSES resolution of Mr. Poage in reference to publication of.................. 260 LIBEL law of, and publication of laws, me morial in referer-ce t).............. 281 LIBRARY of supreme court, resolution of Mr. Haines, of Lake, in reference to use of.............................'t 80 LIBRARIES public, communication in reference to the establishment of............. 451 LI-MITS corporate, of towns and cities, resolu tion of instruction of Mr. Bryan to ommittee on miscellaneous sub jects in reference to............... 211 MANUFACTURING CO,'dPANIES resolution of Mr. Sedgwick in refer ence to exemption of, from taxa tion............................... 100 LIMITATION of debate on report from committee on mines and mineral'interests, in reference to the protection of the lives of miners, resolution of Mr. Turner in reference to............. 274 of debate in committee of the whole, resolution of Mr. Wheaton in refow enceto............................ 613 IKIAPS for the -ase of committee on couT,.ties, report froi-n committee on coun;iels, in reference to.................... 211 66 INDEX. MAPS-Continued. of state, report from 6ommittee on printing and binding, in reference to furnishing to convention...... 280 of state, resolution of Mr. Cross, in reference to furnishing to conven tion............................... 262 of state, resolution of instruction of Mr. Haines, of Lake, to committee on printing, in reference to fur Dishing to convention............. 192 McCOY, JAMES —Continued. appointed member of committee on miscellaneous corporations...........232 75 appointed member of committee on rules of convention............... 56 appointed member of committee on state, county and municipal indebt ness.............................. 75 communication in reference to certain reports of circuit judges, submitted by..........................365 communication in reference to loca tion of national capital, submitted b y................................ 179 petition in reference to removal of county seats, submitted by.........1502 petition in reference to township or ganization, submitted by.......... 1528 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on coun ties, as amended in committee of the whole.................... 1504,1546 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on judi ciary, as amended in committee of the whole..1400, 1412, 1430, 1444, 1481 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on rail road corporations, as amended in committee of the whole...........1711 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on right of suffrage, as amended in commit tee of the whole.............1282, 1289 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on bill of rights........1571 remarks of, in debate on reports from committees on canal and canal lands, and on internal improve ments................ 385, 386, 387, 88 remarks of, in debate on report fi-om committee on counties..1331, 1350, 1363 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on executive depart ment.......................... 772, 807 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on judiciary..991, 994, 1009 1036, 1047, 1073, 1100, 1116, 1164, 1165 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on legislative depart ment............ 554, 599, 648, 662, 718 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on miscellaneous corpo rations............................ 1665 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on miscellaneous corpo. rations, in reference to ware houses.......................1631,1633 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on miscellaneous sub jects, in reference to homestead ex emptions.......................... 905 remarks of, in debate on report from c ommittee on printing and bind ing..................... 1.... 19 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on railroad corpora tinns..............................1656 remarks of, in debate on report from pommittee on revenue.1250 1265, 1275 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on roads and internal navigation........................ 891 r emarks oft inl debate on report from committee on schedule............1.01 delL remaiks of, in debate on report from committee on state, county and municipal indebtedness....294, 842, 843 remarks of, in debate on resolution of Mr. Allen, of Crawford, authorizing committee on legislative depart ment to employ clerk.............1581, 115 re marks of, in debate on resolution of Mr. Church in reference to oath of office....,............,. 18 remarks of; in debate on resolution of Mr. English in reference to adjourn mentt.............................. 87 remarks of, in debate on resolution of Mr. Peiree in reference to reports of standing committees.............. 259 remarks of in debate on resolution of Mr. Wagner in reterence to com mittee rooms amendment............, 490 remarks of, in debate on resolution or Mr. Wells in reference to elec tion of delegate to convention in Ion. B. pl e on. Wm. IH. Patterson, deceased..... 198 remarks of; in reference to further consideration of report from com mittee on state, county and munic ipal indebtedness retrenchment.and 12eo McCOY, JAMES-Contirnued. al remarks of, in reference to order of business............. 223, 263, 744, 1649 remarks of, on article on distribution of the powers of the state govern ment............................1 279 remarks of, on question of privilege. 189 11]5 remarks of, on report from commit - tee on accounts and expenditures of convention, in reference to ex. peuses of convention............... 1788 remarks of, on resolution of Mr. Cary in r eference to employing addition al clerical force.................... 71 remarks of, on resolution in reference to time of consideration of report from committee on miscellaneous corporations...................... 346 report from committee on miscellane ous corporations, submitted by.... 333 report from committee on state, county and municipal indebtedness, submitted by....................... 189 resolution in reference to further con sideration of report from commit mittee on state, county and munici pal indebtedness............... 261, 273 resolution in reference to time of con sideration of report from commit tee on miscellaneous corporations. 345 resolution of inquiry to Auditor of State in reference to assessed value of property in the state for the past four years......................... 127 resolution of inquiry to Auditor of State in reference to state indebted ness............................... 127 resolution of Mr. King in reference to movable property of railroads, etc., reported back from committee on miscellaneous corporations by..... 210 resolution to amend constitution in reference to eminent domain...... 180 resolution to amend constitution in reference to eminent domain, re ported back from committee on roads and internal navigation...... 257 resolution to print additional copies of report from committee on state, county and municipal indebted-48 ness............................... 482 substitute of, to amendment of Mr. Browning to section 12 of report from committee on judiciary, as amended in committee of the whole............................ 1406 substitute of, to section 4 of report from committee on counties....... 1329 substitute of, to section 7 of report from committee on legislative de partment.......................... 735 I I INDEX. MARRIED WO.NIFN resolution of instruction of Mr. Arch er, to committee on legislative de partm.ent, in reference to the prop erty of............................ 177 MASONIC INSCRIPTIONS on -Dublic buildings, petition In refer ence to.................... 210, 320, 365 MASTERS IN CI-IKNCERY resolution of Mr. Snyder in reference to manner of election of.... 92,100,745 resolution of instruction of Mr. Wall, to committee on revision and ad justment, in reference to electio-n of................................. 1789 MATTESON, JOEL A. communication from - Alexander Starne, trustee, &c., in reference to sale of lands bCIODgiDg to........... 410 communication from Auditor of State in reference to sale of lands belong ing to..............................510 resolution of inquiry of Mr. Autho ny to Alexander Starne, trustee, &c., and to Auditor of State, in reference to ltinds belonging to.,..'334 MAYORS of cities, resolution of Mr. Anthony in reference to their powers and duties............................. 154 ICCOY, JAMES-(a Delegate from the For ty-e!L-hth Representative District.) additional section to report from committee!ln right of suffrage, as amended in committee of the whole, offered by.................. 1298 amendment of, to amendment of Mr. Truesdale to section 46 of report from committee on judiciary...... 1185. amendment of, to amendment of Mr. Turner to section 3 of report from committee on miscellaneous corpo ra,tions in reference. to warehouses.1631 ,amendment of, to resolution of Mr. Allen, of Crawford, in reference to printing veto messages............ 153 amendment of, to section PI of report from committee on executive cle part.ment......................... 792 amendment of, to section 13 of re port from committee on judiciary, as amended in committee of thp, whole............................. 1444 amendment of, to section 23 of re port from committee on legislative department...................... amendment of, to section 1 of report from committee on miscellaneous corporations...................... 1665 amendment of, to section 7 of report from committee on miscellaneous corporations in reference to ware-, houses.............. 1635 umendinent i of report from committee on right of suf fra,ge, as amended in committee of the whole......................... 1289 ,amendment of, to section 1 of re-Dort from committee on state, county and mu-nic,' -pal irdc-btedness....... 218 amendment Of, to section 2 of report from'committee on state, county and municipal indet)tednes.9, as amended in committee of the whole.............................. 1257 amendment of, to substitute of Mr. Wells to resolution -of Mr. Hanna, in reference to election of delegate to convention in place of lIojY. B. W. Henry......................... 10P,2 appointed member of committee on bill of rights...................... 75 Appointed member of juqi ary com iittee...................I......... 75 McDOWELL, CHAS. B.-(a Delegate from the Fourteenth Representative Dis trict.) amendment of, to amendment of Mr. Ross to section 15 of report from committee on bill of rights........ 1575 amendment of, to resolution in refer ence to per them of members and employes of convention........... 1196 amendment of, to resolution of Mr. Wells in reference to election of dele,-,ate to convention in place of Ho NVm. H. Patterson D., deceased. 204 amendment of, to section 3 of report from committee on banks and cur rency........................ i6... dl6Z9 amendment of, to sections 15, an 21 of'report from committee on bill of rights............... 15si, 1585, 1587 amendment of, to section 1 of report from- committee on education, as amended in committee of the whole............................. 1747 amendment of, to sections 11, 14,28,, 36 and 47 of report fi-om comniittee on judiiary...................... 1030 1051, 1112, 1171, 1186 amendment of, to section 2 of report ftom committee on military affairs. 862, 864 amendment of, to section 4 of report from committee on state, county and municipal indebtedness........ 84T amendment 6f, to section 1 of report from committee on township organ ization................... 875 appointed member of comm 0 canal and canal lands.............. 75 appointed member of c(fnmittee on retrenchment and reform.......... 7.5 _ _-.............................. 6-?o MEDILL, JOSEPH-Continued. amendment of, to section eighteen of report from committee on judi ciary, as amended in committee of the whole.........................1408 amendment of, to sections four and six of report from committee on legislative department.....696, 721, 722 amendment of, to section eighteen of report from committee on legis. lative department, as amended in committee of the whole........... 947 amendment of, to section two of re port from committee on miscellane. ous corporations, in reference to warehouses, /as amended in com mittee of the whole.............. 1699 amendment of, to section four, of report from committee on rev enue..............................1269d amendment of, to section six of re port from committee on revenue, as amended in committee of the whole.......................1609 amendment of, to section one of re port from committee on right of suffrage, as amended in committee the whole........................ 1282 amendment of, to section one of re port of committee on state, coun ty and municipal indebtedness..... 220 amendment of, to section 2 of report from committee on state, county and municipal indebtedness, as amended in committee of the, whole............................. 1258 amendment of, to section 1 of report from committee on township organ ization............................ 880 amendment of, to substitute of Mr. Cary to resolution of Mr. Craig to furnish members of convention with daily papers.................. 181 appointed member of committee on electoral and representative re- form.............................. 75t appointed member of committee on judicial divisions of the state...... t1103 adpointed member of committee on legislature........................ 75 appointed member of committee on printing and binding.............. 75 appointed member of committee to measure printed matter, etc., of convention.................. 1860, 1865 appointed member of committee to prepare address to the people of the state..........................1788 article in reference to county officers, submitted by...................... 174 communication from the Stone Cut ters' Association in Chicago, in ref erence to convict labor, submitted by................................. 141 memorial in reference to law of libel, publication of laws, etc., submitted by................................28 memorial on the subject of minority r representation, submitted by...... 679 p etition in reference to railroad and warehouse frauds, submitted by... 654 remarks of, in debate in convention m e o report from committee on coun ties, as amended in committee of the whole...........1511, 1518 remarks of, in debate in convention on report firom committee on edo cation, as amended in committee of the whole........ 1757, 1758 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on fu ture amendments. as amended in committee of the whole........... 1592 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on judiciary, as amended in committee of the whole....a... 1403, 1406, 1408, 1438, 1439 - remarks of in debate in convention on report from committee on leg islative department, as amended in committee of the whole........... 918 919, 920, 925, 945, 956, 957 MEDILL, JOSEPH-Continued. remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on right of suffragt, as amended in commit tee of the whole.............1290, 0, 1803 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on sched ule, as amended in committee of the whole........5. 189, 1823 remarks -of, in debate in convention on report fi-om committee on state, county and municipal indebtedness, as amended in committee o f th e whole............................. 1 260 remarks of, in debate on article in reference to municipal subscrip tions to capital stock of private corporations................ 1239, 1241 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on banks and currency.1683 remarks of, in debate on report from commnittee on bill of rights..1574, 1583 remarks of, in debate on reports from commi, nteef on canal and canal lands and on internal improvements...... 318 319: 324, 327, 32S, 329, 332 372, 4-73, 475, 476. remarks of, in debate OD report from committee on counties...........1353 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on electoral and repre sentative reform...................1726 remarks of, in debate report from committee on executive depart ment............. 756, 779, 786, 895, 816 remarks of, in debate on report friom committee on finance........ 1784, 1786 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on future amendments.1316 1317 remarks of, in debate on report from from committee on judiciary...... 1008 1010, 1017, 1048, 1034, 1038, 1049 1100, 1109, 1110, 1119, 1143, 11-50 1162, 1173, 1177, 1214, 1222, 1223 remarks of, in debate on report Irom committee on legislative depart ment.......................... 535, 541 559,.568, 583, 5S4, 633, 673, 696 708, 721, 730, 731, 734, 785, 740 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on mines and mineral interests, in reference to the pro teciion of the lives of mine-r...271, 275 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on miscellaneous corpo rations............................ 1666 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on miscellaneous corpo rations, in reference to warehouses.1629 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on printing and binding 103 118 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on mis cellaneous corporations, in refer erence to warehouses, as amended in committee of the whole.. 1698, 1699 remarks of, in debate in convention on report froma committee on rev enue, as amended in committee oi the whole.............1601, 1609, 1614 MEDILL, JOSEPH-(a Delegate from the Fifty-ninth Representative District.) amendment of, to article in reference to municipal subscriptions to capi tal stock of v rivate corporations...1241 amendment of, to constitution, in reference to oath of office of mem bers of general assembly.......... 139 amendment of, to constitution, in reference to planting trees on high ways............................... 83 amendment of, to constitution, in reference to rights of stockholders. 139 amendment of, to lines 13, 14, 23 and 24 of section 33 of report from committee on legislative depart ment........................... 608, 609 amendment of, to reports from com mittees on canal and canal lands and on internal improvements.417, 472 amendment of, to report from com mittee on printing and binding, in reference to printing constitution and address, etc.................... 1790 amendment of, to report from com mittee on printing and binding, in reference to printing of journal, laws, etc.......................... 253 amendment of, to resolution of Mr. Wells, in reference to election of delegate to convention, in place of Hon. W. H. Patterson, deceased... 203 amendment of, to section twelve of report from committee on bill of rights.............................1574 amendment of, to section seven of re port from committee on counties.. 1355 amendment of, to section six of re- + port from committee on counties, as amended in committee of the whole............................. 1518 amendment of, to section ten of re, ort from committee on executive Separtment........................ 779 amendment of to section ten and twenty-six of report from commit tee on judiciary............. 10* 1109 1-18 I INDEX. ei McDOWELL, CFIARLE$ E.-Contintted. appointed member of committee on -L 75 ri lit ofs iffrage.................. leave of absence granted to.......... 333 minority report from committee on right of suffrage, submitted by.... 856 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on bill of rights........ 1585 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on judiciary........... 1041 1112, 1.134, 1156, 1171, 1186, 1214 remarks of, in debate on report from committee- on legislative depart ment.......................... 538, 663 rp.raarks of, in debate on report from committee on townchip organiza tion................................ 87,5 remarks of, in reference to considera tion of report from committee on canal and canal lands, in regard to certain modifications of article on canal............................. 1745 resolution in reference to considera tton of report from committee on revision and adjustment........... 1662 resolution in reference to 15th am end Meut.............................. 175 resolution in reference to newspapere; 615 remarks of, in reference, to report from committee on right of suf fra,,e.............................. 857 resolution in reference to per dient of members and employes of conven tion............................... 1178 resolution to refuse use of hall of rep resentatives for lectures.......... 859 substitute of, to section 23 of report from committee on legislative- de partment......................... 536 McLEA.N, REV. MR. prayer offered by...... 74, 509, 937, 1731 MECIIANICS' LIENS resolution of instruction of Mr. Sharp - to committee on judiciary, in refer. ence to............................ 193 MECHANICAL LABOR — in state penitentiary, resolution of instruction of Mr. Brown to -com mittee on penitentiary and reforma tory-4ustitutions, in refer,6nee to... 192, remarks of, in debate on report from ommi ttee on printing and binding, in r(.,f'erence to correction of speeches................. 168 remarks,of, in debate on report from committee on priUt,iDg and binding, in reference to furnishing manuals to convention..................... 145 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on railroad corporationsl644 1660 remarks of, in debate on report from .ttee on revenue..1253, 1254, 1269 remarks of, in debate on report f'rom committee on revision and adjust ment, on article on counties....... 1835 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on schedule............ 1792 1796, 1798, 1809 remarks of, in debate on report from ,committee on states, county and municipal indebtedness........ 220, 840 remarks of, in debate on report from - committee on township orgadiza tion............. 880 remarks of, in debate on res ution of Mr. English'n reference to recess of convention..................... 831 remarks of, in debate on resolution of Mr. Snyder in reference to furnish ing new,-,papers to,nt.mbers of con vention (53 remarks oi".ln"de;i,e"o,n";o utions in reference to oath of offlce..... 24, 37 remarks of, in debate on Lhe subject of convention printing............ 1181 1182, 1183, 1205. 1206, 1207 i emarks of, in debate on the subject ofprintingdebate,5...........,#.89, 90 :..................................... 2:. MEDILL, JOSEPH —Contfinued. remarks of, in reference to lecture on female suffrage..........1392 remarks of? in reference,|to printing address and constitution...1142, 1844 remarks of, in reference to protests..1551 remarks of, on report f rom committee on p rinting and binding, in refer ence to index to debates, etc....1865 remarks of, on report from committee on printing and binding, in refer ence to printing journal, laws, etc.. 246 247, 248, 256 remarks of, on report from commit tee on printing and binding, in ref erence to publication of constitu tion........................104 remarks of, on resolution in reference to employing messenger to steno grapher...........,..... 138 remnarks of, on resolution to appoint Ely, Burnham & Bartlett, steno graphers to convention..................... 67 remarks of, on resolution of instruc tion to committee on revision and adjustment, in reference to election of supreme court judges..1678 remarks of, on resolution of Mr. Turner in reference to furnishing manuals to convention...................... 137 remarks of, on the subject of plant ing trees on highways...................... 83 report from committee on electoral and representative reform, submit- 5~ ted by.............................. B report from committee on judicial di visions of the State, submitted by..1208 report from committee on printing and binding in reference to comnpen sation of official stenographers of convention, submitted by.................... 293 report from committee on printing and binding in reference to correc tion of speeches, submitted by.................. 167 report froma committee on printing and binding in reference to furnish ing manuals to convention, submit ted by.............................. 145 report from committee on printing and binding in reierence to printing and binding convention debates, submitted by........................... 118 report from committee on printing and binding in reference to trans-i cription of journlals of convention, submitted by.................................1865 report from committee on schedule, submitted by...................1791 resolution in reference to compensa tion of judges.................. 174 resolution in reference to employing messenger to stenographer..... 138 resolution in reference to fees of coun ty officers............. 174 resolution in reference to judicial di vision of the state......... 1010 resolution in reference to opinions of supreme court judges....... 174 resolution of instruction to -commit tee on revision and adjustment in reference to election of sulpreme court juedges.................................1678 resolution to appoint Ely, Burnham and Bartlett stenographers to con vention................... 67 resolution to furnish secretary of con vention with postage stamps....1231 resolution to print certain reports and articles...............231.23 substitute of, to report from commit tee on future amendments...............1319 substitute of, to report from commit tee on mlines and mineral interests ill reference to protection of the lives of miners................... 271, 275 substitute of, to sections 7 and 43 of report from committee on legisla tive departmnent..................731, 694 substitute of, to section 25 of report from committee on schedule, as amended in committee of the whole......................... 1829 MEMBERS —Continued. deceased and resigning, of conven tion, resolution of Mr. Snyder in reference to pay of.. of.................. 0 987 of convention, administration of oath of office to..............47, 49 of convention, ordinance relating to privileges of.....................56, 93 of conventioj, resolution of Mr. Bromwell, in reference to furnish ing newspapers to..............132 - of convention, resolution of Mr. Bromwell in reference to furnishing stationery to..66.dofcrofcneto,rslto66 of convention, resolution of Mr. Cody in reference to furnishing with additional newspapers........ 134 of convention. resolution of Mr. Craig to furnish daily papers to.... 180 of convention, resolution of Mr. Cross in reference to furnishing postage stamps to..............1320 of convention, resolution of Mr. Cummings in reference to oath to to be taken by................. 590 of convention, resolution of Mr. Ellis to allow additional copies of de bates to........................ a,u t 182 of convention, resolution of Mr. Haines, of Lake, in reference to furnishing postage stamps to....91, 344 of convention, resolution of Mr. Haines, of Lake, in reference to number of newspapers to be fur ed toy.............................. 138 r of convention, resolution of Mr. HIaines, of Lake, in reference to per diem of, during recess........ 345 M of convention, resolution of Mr. Hen ry in reference to furnishing news papers to......................5 iee 57 of convention, resoultion of Mr. Parks in reference to furnishing stationery to..Medi..... 65, 66 0of convention, resolution of Mr. a Peirce in reference to furnishing additional postage stamps to... 481 of convention, resolution of Mr. Ross to modify resolution in reference to stationery furnished to.-..........261 of convention, resolution of Mr. Sedgwick, in reference to furnish ing additional copies of debates to.......~.............,........1339 of convention, resolution of Mr. Sedgwick in reference to furnishing newspapers to.....- 125, 169 of convention, resolution of Mr. Snyder in reference to furnishing newspapers to - 57, 61 of convention, resolution of Mr. Wells in reference to heading of stationery furnished to........... 72 of covention, resolution of instruc tion of Mr. Ellis to Secretary of State, in reference to articles fur nished to.......................... 260 of county boards, resolution of Mr. Craig in reference t o...........155 of future conventions, resolution of instruction of Mr. Springer to com mittee on future amendments, in reference to form of oath of of riclee of.... 193 of general assembly, amendment to constitution in reference to oath of office of....................,139 of general assembly,resolution of Mr. Springer in reference to compensa tion of,....from committee.on.railro 1r of general assembly, compensation and sessions of, resolution of in struction of Mr. Ellis to committee on legislature, in reference to.....83 of general assembly,resolution of Mr. Fr l'ler to committee on legislature, in reference to member of 83 of house of representatives, resolu tion of Mr. Eldredge in reference to election of of.section 33 of.report fmo of legislature and future conventions, resolution of instruction of Mr. Underswood to committee on legis lature in reference to compensation of -................. 78 and employes of convention, resolu tion of Mr. McDowell in reference to per digem o)f........... 117 ****+++ I8 and officers of convention, etc., re port from committee on accounts and expenditures of convention in reference to per diem of.........997 MERRIAM c JON.-m(a Delegate from the Thirty-seventh Representative District.) amendment of, to additional section offered by Mr. Anthony to report from committee on railroad corpo rations....................................1648 amendment of, to amendment of Mr. Hildrup to section 4 of majority re port fro m committee on counties..1330 amendment o f, to amendment of Mr. M~ov to section 1 of report mrom committee on municipal corpora t i on s............v....v.....1665 amendment of, to lines 26, 27 and 28 of section 33 of report from coam - mirtee on legislative department.. 612 amendment of, to sections 11, 23 and . 26 of report from committee on judiciary, as amended in committee of the whole.................1460 amendments of, to section 3)3 of re port from committee onl legislative department............576 appointed member of committee on congressional apportionment.................. 75 appoin ted member of committee on 8chedule*..........-......., 75 -............................................ 69 MERRIAM, JON.-Continued. resolution of instruction to commit. tee on state, county and municipal indebtedness, in reference to com pensation of county officers........'177 MESSENGE)R TO STENOGRAPHER resolution of Mr. Medill in reference t o employing..................... 138 MERRIAM, JON.-Continuev. n appoin ted m emb er of committee on expestate, county and municipal indebt edness............................ 75 appointed member of committee on township organization 75 communication in reference to the right of suffrage of foreigners, sub mitted b y......................... 679 communication in reference to the sale of intoxicating liquors, submit ted by............................ 320 leave of absence granted to.........1234 petition in reference to railroad and warehouse frauds,-submitted by.560, 590 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on coun ties, as amended in committee of the whole........................1514 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on judi ciary, as amended in committee of the whole.........................1468 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on mis cellaneous corporations in reference to warehouses, as amended in com mittee of the whole...............1695 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on right of suffrage, as amended in commit tee of the whole...................1286 remarks of, in debate in reference to election of assistant postmaster.... 54 remarks of, in debate on amendment to resolution of inquiry of Mr. Fox to Auditor of State in reference to expenses of constitutional conven tion of 1862........................ 69 remarks of, in debate on reports from committees on canal and canal lands and on internal improve ments............................. 383 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on counties....... 1330, 1348 remarks of, m debate on report from committee on executive depart ment.............................. 771 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on judiciary............1065 1216, 1223 MILITIA OF STATE resolution of Mr. Parker inlreference to................................ 176 MILITARY AFFAIRS, COMMITTEE ON appointment of..................... 75t debate on report from.........860 to 866 majority report from, submitted by Mr. Cameron..................... 293 minority report from, submitted by Mr. Anderson..................... 307 report from, referred to committee on revision and adjustment.......... 866 resolution of Mr. Parker, in reference to state militia, referred to........ 176 resolution of instruction to, of Mt-. Wait, in reference to establishment of a military school............... 194 MISCELLANEOUS CORPORATIONS, COM MITTEE ON amendment to constitution in refer erce to rights of stockholders, re ferred to.......................... 139 appoin tment of..................... 75 communication in reference to rail road tariffs in certain cases, refer red to................. 679 debate on report from.........9 rv 1664 to 1669 debate on re port from, in reference to warehouses....,.......... 1622 to 1637 debate in convention on report from, as amended in committee of the whole............................. 170 2 debate in convention on report from, in reference to warehouses, as amended in committee of the whole...................... 1693 to 1701 petition in reference to county and township lines, referred to......... 679 petition in reference to railroad and warehouse frauds, referred to..... 627 654, 679, 702 petition in reference to warehouse frauds, etc., referred to.... 589, 736, 782 report from, submitted by Mr. McCoy............................ 333 report from, in reference to ware. houses, submitted by Mr. Cary....1155 report from, referred to committee on revision and adjustment........1702 report froin, in reference to ware houses, referred to committee on revision and-adjustment........... 1701 resolution of Mr. Eldredge in refer ence to street railroads. referred to. 151 resolution of Mr. McCoy in reference to time of consideration of -report from.............................. 345 resolution of Mr. Scholfield in refer- - ence to passage of general and spe cial laws by general assembly, re ferred t o.......................... 116 resolution of Mr. Whiting in refer ence to considering railroads as public corporations, referred to.... 148 MILITARY SCHOOL resolution of instruction of Mr. Wait to commit tee on military affairs, in reference to establishment of...... 194 MILLER, REV. MR. prayer offered by..261, 320, 389, 531, 678 964, 1103, 1256, 1338, 149, 1451, 1550 MINES AND MINING communication on the subject of.... 210 MINES AND MINERAL INTERESTS, COM MITTEE ON appointment of..................... 93 communication in reference to the m LaSalle miners, referred to........ 306 communication on the subject of mines and mining, referred to...... 210 debate on report from, in reference to the protection of the lives of min ers....................... 264 to 276 report from, in reference to the pro tection of the lives of miners, sub mitted by Mr. Snyder.............. 210 resolution of Mr. Cameron to appoint 81 85 MISCELLANEOUS SUBJECTS, COMMIT TEE ON appointment o f.................... 75 communication in reference to ferry across the Mississippi river at St. Lotvls, referred to................. 938 communication in reference to the protection oflaborers, etc., referred to................................ 306 communication in reference to the sale of intoxicating liquors, referred to................................. 320 communication in reference to short measure of fruits, referred to....... 236 communication in reference to short measure of fruits, reported back from.............................. 857 communication in reference to the use of English language by physi cians and lawyers, referred to.....280 communication in reference to use of English language I by lawyers and physicians, reported backffrom.... 857 communication on the subject of the constitution of Illinois, referred to................................. ll& debate on report fiom, in reference to homestead exemptions.....895 to 912 debate on report from, in reference to preamble......... 231 to 235, 264 to 276 debate in convention on report from in reference to homestead exemp tions, as amended in committee of the whole.................. 1689 to 1692 petition in reference to extraordina ry judicial oaths, referred to...... 1012 petition ill reference to masonic in scriptions on public buildings, re ferred to......................210, 365 petition in reference to masonic in scriptions on public buildings, etc., recalled from committee on judicia ry (pace S20) and referred to...... 365 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on legislative depart ment..................... 576, 584, 585 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on mines and mineral interests in reference to the protec tion of the lives of miners......... 273 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on miscellaneous cor porations in reference to ware houses............................ 1628 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on revenue............. 1264 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on schedule............ 1797 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on township organiza. t ion............................... 882 remarks of, in debate on resolution of Mr. Snyder in reference to furnish ing newspapers to members of con vention........................... 62 remarks of, in debate on the subject of printing prayers offered in con vention........................... 170 remarks of, on Question of privilege. 392 remarlks of, on report from committee on accounts and expenditures of the convention, in reference to pay of janitors........................ 653 remarks of, on resolution of Mr. Tur ner in reference to furnishing manu als to convention................. 137 remarks of, on resolution of instruc tion of Mr. Wall to committee on penitentiary and reformatory insti tions, in reference to state peniten tiary.............................. 1277 remarks of, on the subject of the spe cial order in reference to certain reports........................... 483 resolution in reference to additional pay to porters.................... 1869 resolution in reference to maintenance of a state university............... 193 resolution in reference to use of hall of representatives for lecture...... 615 resolution of inquiry to State Audi tcr, in reference to expenses of con stitutional convention of 1862..a. 68 MINERS La Salle, communication in reference to................................. 306 debate on report from committee on mines and mineral interests, in ref erence to the protection of the lives of................. 264 to 276 report from committee on mines and mineral interests, in reference to the protection of the lives of...... 210 MINORITY REPORT from committee on counties, submit ted by Mr. Abbott................. 307 from committee on federal relations, submitted by Mr. Wendling......15. 1155 from committee on future amend tments, submitted by Mr. Brown.... 424 from committee on future amend aments, submitted by Mr. Haines, of Lake........................... 391 from committee on military affairs, submitted by Mr. Anderson.rp...... 307 from committee on miscellaneous cor porations, submitted by Mr. IIaines, of Cook........................... 390 from committee on right of sufd frage, submitted by Mr. Haines, of Lake.......................157, 856 from committee on right of suffrage, submitted by Mr. McDowell....... 856 from committee on roads and inter nal navigation in reference to pri vate roads, submitted by Mr. Sedg. wick............................... 257 from committee on roads and inter nat navigation in reference to pri vate roads, remarks of Mr. Church on amendment of Mr. Fox to...... 258 INDEX. 69 MINORITY REPORT-Continued. from committee on towi3,ship organ ization, submitted by Mr.- I-Iaines, of Lake............................ 293 MINORITY REPRESENTATION memorial on the subject of.......... 679 . petition in reference to. 11 11 I I 11 " 11 703 resolution of Mr. Hanna in reference to................................. 72 resolution of Mr. Turner in reference to limitation of debate on report from, in reference to the protection 6f'the lives of miners.............. 274 INDEX. MISCELLANEOUS SUBJECTS, COMMIT TEE ON-Continued. resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Wheaton, in reference to construc tion of the word "office,"........ 782 MOORE, CLIFTON H.-Continued. remarks of, in debate on report from committee on miscellaneou s sub jects in reference to homestead ex emotions....................... 905, 911 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on revenue............. 1199 remarks of, in reference to -printing address and constitution................7 1844 remarks of, on announcement of the death of Hon. Charles Emmerson..1335 remarks of, on communication from Secretary of State in reference to stationery furnished to conven tion............................... 18 16 remarks of, on question of privilege.1389 remarks of, on report from commit tee on accounts and expenditures of convention, in reference to ex penses of convention.............. 1788 remarks of, on report from commit - tee on printing and binding, in ref erence to index to debates, etc..... 1865 remarks of, on resolution of Mr. King in reference to the appoint ment of janitor to senate chamber.1234 remarks of, on resolution of Mr. Wright in reference to ventilation of hall............................ 1211 remarks of, on submission of report from committee on accounts and ex penditures of convention.......... 1210 report from committee on accounts and expenditures of convention, in reference to employment of unnec essary employes of convention, submitted by...................... 1230 report from committee on accounts and expenditures of convention, in reference to expenses of conven tion, submitted by................. 1787 report from committee on accounts and expenditures of convention, in reference to expenses of conven tion, submitted by................9 120 1(;49, 1787, 1861 report from committee on accounts and expenditures of convention, in reference to pay of janitors, sub mitted by......................... 653 report from committee on accounts and expenditures of convention, in reference to postmaster of conven tion, submitted by................ 857 report from committee on accounts and expenditures of convention, in reference to settlement of printing and reporting accounts, submitted by....................... 1866 resolution in reference to fees of coun ty officers......................... 180 resolution in reference to unnecessary employes of convention............1230 resolution of inquiry to Secretary of State in reference to extra em ployes............................. 102 resolution of inquiry to Superintend ent of Public Instruction in refer ence to school statistics............ 193 resolution of instruction to Auditor of State in reference to Superintend ent of Public Itnstruction...............1389 resolution of instrucetion to commit -tee on federal relations,in reference to succession tax.................. 95 resolution of instruct~ionl to Secretary of State and Audit:or of Public Ac counlts, in reference to convention accounts........................ 123C2 resolution of instruction to treasur ers of State Normal School and In1 dustriMl University in reference to Superintendent ot Public Instruc tion.................1389 MISREPRESENTATION- or fraudulent transactions, resolution of Mr. Sherrill in reference to ob taining property by............... 129 MISSISSIPPI RIVER communication in reference to ferry across, at St. Louis................ 380 MITCHELL, WM. elected doorkeeper pro tern. of con vention........................... MODE of amending constitution, resolution of instruction of Mr. Fuller to committee on future amendments, in reference to.................... 139 MODIFICATIONS certain, of article on canal, remarks on consideration of report from committee on canal and canal land-, in reference to.............. 1745 certain, of article on canal, report from committee on canal and canal lands, in reference to............... 1649 MISCELLANEOUS SUBJECTS, COMMIT TEE ON-,Continued. petition in reference to masonic in scriptions on public buildings, reported back firom............257, 858 petition in reference to observance of the Sabbath, referred to........... 389 451, 479, 510, 613, 679, 702, 703 petition in reference to observance of the Sabbath, reported back from............................. 798 petition in reference to preamble, re ferred to.......................... 479 petition in reference to railroad and warehouse frauds. referred to..560, 590 petition in reference to the sale of in toxicating liquors, referred to.344, 451 petition in reference to sectarian pref erences, referred to................ 798 petition on the subject of commerce, referred to........................ 745 petition on the subject of secret soci eties, referred to................... 1634 remarks of Mr. Underwood in refer ence to report from, on the subject of the observance of the Sabbath,. 798 remarks on report from, in reference to preparation of address to the people of the state.......... 1731, 1732 report from, in reference to home steads, submitted by Mr. Under wood............................. 281 report from, in reference to home stead exemptions, referred to com mittee on revision and adjustment.1692 report from, in reference to intoxi cating liquors, submitted by Mr. Underwood........................ 1031 report from, in reference to observ ance of the Sabbath, submitted by Mr. Underwood................... 798 report from, in reference to preamble, referred to committee on revision and adjustment................... 278 report from, in reference to prepara tion of address to people of the state, submitted by Mr. Under wood........... 1731 report from, on petition in reference to state constitution, submitted by Mr. Underwood................... 191 report from, on preamble to consti tution, submitted by Mr. -Under wood.............................. 190 resolution of Mr. English in reference to preparation of address to the people of the State, referred to..1704 resolution of Mr. Fuller, in reference to use of intoxicating liquors by state officials referred to.... 192 resolution of Mr. Sedgwick, to ap point committee to prepare address to the people of the state, referred to................................ 1708 resolution of Mr. Springer in refer ence to homesteads, referred to.... 92 resolution of Mr. Springer, to amtend constitution in reference to pun ishment for dueling, referred to.1502 resolution of Mr. Wagner, in refer enlce to Mwarehouse frauds, referred to 758 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Bayne, in refercnlce to widows and orphans...............510 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Bryan, in reference to corporate limits of towns and cities...................... 11 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Bryan, in r efcrence to corporate limits of towns and cities, reported back fromn, and referred to commit tee on municipal corporations.....8.58 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Hlay, in reference to bribery on the part of public officers........ 182 resolution of instruction to} of Mr. Hay, in reference to bribery on the part of public officers, reported back fromn....................... 857 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Pillsbury, in reference to invest ment of funds of insurance compa nies................193 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Pillsbury, in reibrence to invest ment of funds of insurance compa nies, reported back from......257 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Turner, in reference to engrossing clerk.........,....... 78 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Vandeventer, in reference to rail road and warehouse frau~4......*.. 532 MONOPOLIES resolution of Mr. Cummings, in refer ence to........................... 321 MOORE, R. S. elected doorkeeper pro tern. of con vention........................... 7 elected second assistant doorkeeper of convention................... 53 MOORE, CLIFTON H.-(a Delegate from the Thirty-eighth Representative District.) amendment of, to additional section to report from committee on coun-r t ties, offered by Mr. Hay...........1366 amendment of, to section 7 of report from committee on counties.......1355 amendment of, to sections 26 and 28 of report from committee on judi ciary........................1111, 1112 amendment of, to section 23 of report from committee on legislative de partment...................... t540 amendment of, to sections 1 and 2 of - report from committee on miscel laneous subjects in reference to homestead exemptions.........905, 911 amendment of, to section 1 of report from committee on revenue....... 1201 appointed member of committee on counties.........................: 75 appointed member of committee on municipal corporations............ 75 appointed member of committee on penitentiary and reformatory insti tutions........................... 75 appointed member of committee on schedule........................... 75 appointed member of cemmittee to measure printed matter, etc., of convention........................1868 leave of absence granted to........ 487 782, 1575 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on judi ciary, as amended in committee of the whole.....................1407 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on legis lative department, as amended in committee of the whole........... 967 remarks of, in debate on election of second assistant doorkeeper....... 52 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on counties............1341 1342, 1365 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on education......1734, 1738 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on executive depart ment.......................... 767, 768 remarks of in debate on report firom committee on legislative depart ment........................... 662,663 70 lkfORNING SESSIONS OF CONVENTION resolution of Mr. Church in refrence to................................ 1232 resolution of Mr. Church in reference to, called up...................... 1233 resolution of Mr. Vandeventer in reference to..................:. 702 resolution of Mr. Vandevet'e'r in reference to, called up and acted upon............................. 703 resolution of Mr. Washburn in refer ence to............................ 835 resolution of Mr. Washburn in refer ence to, called up................. 852 MOTION TO ADJOURN remarks in reference to effset of.lW,1549 I~~1)EX.~ 71 NAMES and meetings oftownships, resolution of Mr. Peirce in reference to......82 noerinfhbto. 182 MOVABLE PROPERTY of railroads, etc., resolution of Mr. King in reference to............... 172 of railroads, etc., resolution of Mr. King in reference to, reported back from committee on miscellaneous subjects, and referred to committee on railroads....................... 210 NATIONAL CAPITAL communication in reference to loca tion of............................ 179 memnorial in reference to location of.. 211 petition in reference to location of... 280 preamble, resolution and telegram in reference to location of...........7. o75 resolution of Mr. Wells in reference to location of.................... 213 NEWSPAPERS debate on report from committee on printing and binding, in reference to furnishing to convention....129,134 report from committee on printing and binding in reference to furnish ing to convention................. 129 resolution of Mr. Bromwell in refer ence to furnishing members of con vention with...................... 132 additional, resolution of Mr. Cody in reference to furnishing members of convention with................. 134 resolution of Mr. Haines, of Lake, in reference to number of, to be fur nislhed to members of convention.. 138 resolution of Mr. Henry in reference to furnishing members of conven tion with.......................... 57 resolution of Mr. McDowell in refer ence to............................ 615 resolution of Mr. Sedgwick in refer ence to furnishing members of con vention with................. 125, 169 resolution of Mr. Skinner in refer ence to furnishing debates to...213,236 resolution of Mr. Snyder in reference to furnishing members of conven tion with........... 57,61 resolution of Mr. Wright to furnish elective officers of convention with 127 NATIONAL CONSTITUTION resolution of Mr. Ellis in reference to amendments to......................... 98 MUNICIPAL CORPORATIONS, COMMIT TEE ON appointment of........................ 75 article in reference to municipal cor porations, referred to............ 212 communication in reference to boards of supervisors, etc., referred to.... 281 communication in reference to side walks, referred to................. 306 debate on report from........1669 to 1676 debat e on report from, as amended in committee of the whole.... 1723 to 1725 majority report from, submitted by Mr. Browning................. 390 minority report from, submitted by Mr. Haines, of Cook.............. 390 petition in reference to holding over of term of office by certain offcers, referred to........................ 451 petitition in reference to prohibitory liquor laws, referred to............ 1621 proposed amendments to the consti tution relating to fees, etc., refer red to..................... 97 remarks in reference to report from..1677 report from, referred to committee on revision and adjustment........ 1725 resolution of Mr. Abbott in reference to extension of corporate limits, referred to........................ 679 resolution of Mr. Anthony in refer ence to city mayors and their pow ers and duties, referred to......... 154 resolution of Mr. Anthony in refer ence to election of town and city officers, etc., referred to........... 154 resolution of Mr. Anthony in refer ence to general and special laws of cities, referred to.................. 154 resolution of Mr. Anthony in refer ence to street railroads, referred to 154 resolution of Mr. Anthony in refer ence to subscriptions to stock by counties, towns, etc., referred to.. 154 resolution of Mr. Anthony in refer ence to the tenure and salary of officers, etc, referred to........... 211 resolution of Mr. Buxton in reference to levying of taxes, referred to.... 127 resolution of Mr. Haines, of Lake, in reference to the incorporation of towns, referred to................. 155 resolution of Mr. Sedgwick in refer ence -to the passage of local and special laws in certain cases, refer red to............................ 76 resolution of Mr. Underwood in ref erence to increase of official fees dur ing term of office, referred to...... 138 resolution of Mr. Wagner in reter ence to town and county appropria tions, etc., referred to............. 179 resolution of instruction of Mr. Bryan to committee on miscellaneous sub jects, in reference to corporate lim its of towns and cities, reported back and referred to................,55 NATIONAL UNION of bricklayers of North America, peti tion from in re fere nce to propor tionate representation............. 235 NATIONAL AND STATE GOVERNMENT resolution of Mr. Anthony in refer ence to............................ es8 NEECE, WM. HI.-(a Delegate from the Twenty-ninth Representative District.) additional section to report from committee on legislative depart ment, offered by................... 695 additional section to report fro m com mittee on revenue, offered by......1280 additional section to report from com mittee on township organization, offered by......................... 881 amendment of, to additional section offered by Mr. Wall to report from committee on legislative depart ment, as amended in committee of the whole........................... 932 amendment of, to resolution of Mr. - Anthony in reference to order of s Signing constitution................1861 amendment of, to section 6 of report from committee on revenue.......17 1274 appointed member of committee on judicial circuits.................... 75 appointed member of committee on Miscellaneous subjects............ 75 appointed member of committee on township organization............br 75s leave of absence granted to.......... 195 conis t s t re353, 758, 1009, 3502 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on judi ciary, as amended in committee of the whole........................ 1445 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on right of suffrage, as amended in commit tee of the whole.................. l284 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on legislative depart mnernt...................... 603, 531,695 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on miscellaneous sub jects, in reference to homestead ex emptions.......................... 899 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on township organiza tion.............................. 881 resolution in reference to payment of employes of convention........... 93 resolution of instruction to commit tee on counties, in reference to cir cuit clerk and recorder............ 84 resolution of instruction to commit tee on revision and adjustment, in reference to section 11 of judiciary article............................ 1763 substitute of, to section 43 of report committee on legislative depart ment............................ 695 OATH OF OFFICE administered to members of conven tion by Judge Samuel H. Treat..47, 49 administered to officers of conven tion.............................. 54 remarks on administration of....... 45 report fr om committe e on executive department, in reference to........ 851 resolution of Mr. Allen, of Crawford, in reference to..................... 9, resolution of Mr. Church in reference to.............................. 7 resolution of Mr. Haines, of Lake, in reference to............... 44, 49 resolution of Mr. Peirce in reference to................................. 47 resolution of Mr. Skinner in refer. ence to............................ 45 resolution of Mr. Turner requesting Judge Samuel H. Treat to adminis ter................................ -5 resolution of invitation of Mr. Tur ner to State officers to be present at administration of............-. 45 NEGRO AND FEMrALE SUFFRAGE resolution of Mr. English in reference wto................................ 212 NEW COUNTY-i petition in reference to the formation o f................................ 451 reUNICIPAL SUBSCRIPTIONS to capital stock of private corpora tions, article in reference to........ 1104 to capital stock of private corpora tions, debate on article in reference to........................12 34 to 1242 municipal subscriptions to capital stock of private corporations, asl amended in committee of the whole, debate on in convention...1730 to capital stock of private corpora tions, article in reference to, refer red to committee on schedule.....1730 proposition in reference to..........1 45 remarks on proposition In reference tol845 1848, 1840 NEW COUNTIES petition in reference to the formation of......................... 389, 726, 753 resolution of Mr. Abbott in reference I to formation of.................. 197 resolution of Mr. Eldredge in refer ence to formation of............... 262 MUTRDER — resolution of instruction of Mr. Van deventer to committee on legisla tive department, in reference to punislhment for................ _. 282 1-19 I INDEX. It-1 NEW ORLEANS resolution of Mr. Haines, of Lake, in commemoration ofthe battle of. 129 MUNICIPAL CORPORATIONS article in reference to................ 212 NOMINATION. of president pro tem. correction of journal in reference to.............. 9 NON-DlSQUALIFICATION- of witnesses on account of religious belief, resolution of Mr. Wall to ameiid constitution in'refcrence to. 176 NUMBER of members of general assembly, resolution of instruction of Mr. Fuller, to committee on legisla. ture, in reference to.............. 83 newspapers to be furnished to mem bers of convention, resolution of Mr. Haines, of Lake, in reference to................................ 138 of penitentiary convicts pardoned during the past ten years,. commu nication from Governor of State in reference t 343 0....................... of penitentiary convicts pardoned during the past ten years, Ico mu riieation from Secretary of State in reference to..................... 306 of penitentiary convicts pardoned during the past ten years, resolu tion of inquiry of Mr. Car'y to Gov ernor of State in reference to...... 168 OATH to be taken by members of conven tion, resolution of Mr. CummingFj . in reference to..................... 590 OATHS petition in reference to extraordinary judicial............................ 1012 INDEX. OFFICIALS state, resolution of Mr. Bromwell in reference to...................... 280 state, resolution of instruction of Mr. Atkins to committee on legislature in reference to salaries of.......... 260 PARDONING POWER and divorces, communication in ref erence to.....................o.. 167 resolution of Mr. Snyder in reference to vesting of...........151, 260 of governor, resolution of Mr.. Ro ss in reference to..................... 151 of governor, resolution of Mr. Sedg wick to amend constitution in ref erence t o.......................... 193 of governor, resolution of Mr. Wag ner in reference t o................. 194 of governor, resolution of instruc tion, of Mr. Archer, to committee on executive, in reference to...... 98 OFFICIAL FEES and terms, resolution of Mr. Haines, of Lake, in reference to............ 84 and the eligibility of sheriffs to re election, resolution of Mr. Sherrill in reference to................... wcto. 83 and the eligibility of sheriffs to re. election, resolution of Mr. Sherrill in reference to, reported back from committee on township organiza tion, and referred to committee on counties.......................... 245 resolution of Mr. Underwood in refer ence to............................ 179 resolution of Mr. Underwood in refer ence to increase of, during term of office............................n. 138 resolution of Mr. Wright in reference to................................ 367 OBSERVANCE of the Sabbath, petition in reference to.................... 389, 451, 479 510, 560, 613, 679, 702, 703, 745, 1129 of the Sabbath, remarks of Mr. Un derwood in reference to report from committee on miscellaneous subjects, on the subject of......... 798 of the Sabbath, report from the com mittee on miscellaneous subjects, in reference to..................... 798 of the seventh day, petition in refer ence to...................... 1103, 1477 PARKER, JOSEPH-(a Delegate from t he Fiftieth Representative District.) amendment of, to section three of re port from committee on counties. 1329 amendment of, to section one of re. port from committee on counties, as amended in committee of the whole..............................1521 amendment of, to sections 1, 17, 26 and 28 of report from committee on judiciary........990, 1061,1111,1112 amendment of, to section five of re port from committee on judiciary, as amended in committee of the whole............................ 14 31 amendment of, to sections five and thirty-two of report from commit tee on legislative department, as amended in committee of the whole.......................... 941, 960 amendment of, to section one of re port from committee on township organization....................... 882 appointed member of committee on congressional apportionment....... 75 appointed member of committee on military affairs..................... 75 appointed member of committee on state, county and municipal indebt ness............................. 75 leave of absence granted to......... 77 petition in reference to location of railroad offices, submitted by...... 289 petition in reference to railroad and warehouse frauds, submitted by... 757 remarks of, in debate on election of second assistant doorkeeper......'. 52 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on judiciary............ 1104 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on leg.. islative department, as amended in committee of the whole............ 941 resolution in reference to abatement of taxes on real estate............. 726 resolution in reference to future revi sion of constitution............... 176 resolution in reference to state mili tia................................ 176 resolution to amend constitution in reference to free schools........... 212 resolution of instruction to commit tee on revenue, in reference to abol ishment of state board of equaliza tion............................. 212 substitute of, to section 25 of report from committee on judiciary...... 1104 substitute of, to section 7 of report from committee on legislative de partment.......................... 735 OFFICIAL STENOGRAPHIERS to convention, report from committee on printing and binding in reference to compensation of................ 293 resolution of Mr. Anthony, directing Secretary of State to furnish with necessary materials whl..... 81 to convention, resolution of Mr. Me dill to appoint Messrs. Ely, Burn ham and Bartlett.....6............ 67 OFFICERS resolution of Mr. Anth ony in refer ence to removal of................ 154 resolution of Mr. Anthony in refer ence to tenure a nd salary of...... 211 county, resolution of Mr. Moore in reference to fees of................ 180 county, resolutionof insturuction of Mr.tNerriam, to committee on state, county and municipal indebtedness in reference to compensation of.... 177 tow n and city, etc., resolution of Mr. Anthony in reference to election of. 154 of convention, oath of office adminis tered to.......................... 54 and members of convention, etc., re port from committee on accounts and expenditures of convention, in reference to per diem of........... 997 and members of convention, resolu tion of Mr. Bowman in reference to payment of....................... 192 and members of convention, resolu tion of Mr. Fox in reference to pay ment of...................... 88 and members of convention, resolu tion of Mr. King in reference to per diem of........................ 1425 and members of convention, resolu tion of Mr. Snyder in reference to compensation of................... 736 and members of convention, resolu tion of Mr. Turner in reference to payment of..................... 87, 987 and members of convention, resolu tion of instruction of Mr. Turner, to committee on accounts and ex penditures of convention in refer ence to per diem of................ 895 and members of convention, resolu tion of Mr. Turner in reference to per diem of, reported back from committee on accounts and expen ditures of convention, and agreed to................................. 998 and members of convention, resolu tion of Mr. Vandeventer in refer ence to payment of................ 4-29 permanent, of convention, resolution of Mr. Coolbaugh in reference to election of........................ 49 permanent, of convention, resolution of Mr. Fox in reference to election of................................. 50 OPINIONS of supreme court judges, resolution of Mr. Medill in reference to...... 174 ORDER special, remarks on the subject of, in freference to certain reports..482 to 484 of signing constitution, resolution of Mr Anthony in reference to......1861 ORDER OF BUSINESS remarks in reference to.....223, 231, 263 264, 308 to 310, 336, 337, 744, 832, 833 854, 855, 858, 859, 883, 1061, 1198, 1199 1209, 1211, 1260, 1307, 1319, 1557, 1558 ient of.8'1649, 1650, 1726 resolution of Mr. Bryan in reference to............................... 453 resolution of Mr. King to amend rule 44, in regard to................... 169 resolution of Mr. King to amend rule 44, in regard to, called up and re ferred to committee on rules......rslto 173 ORDINANCE- relating to the privileges of members of convention, submitted by Mr. Atkinsocm............................o t - 5 r ORDINANCE REFERRED ordinance relating to privileges of members of convention, referred to committee on judiciary...sbiu otsc.........t 93 ORGANIZATION OF CONVENTION resolution of Mr. Browning in refer ence to....................... roll call on..................... ORIGIN OF THE PRAIRIES resolution of Mr. Underwood in refer ence to essay on...................Tete 481 complimentary resolution of Mr. Whiting in reference to essay on... 488 PARKS, SAMUEL C.-(a Delegate from the Twentieth Representative District.) amendment of, to resolution of Mr. English in reference to recess of convention........................ 831 amendment,f, to resolution of Mr. Wendling in reference to furnishing postage stamps to secretary of con vention........................... 1231 amendment of, to section 25 of article on legislative department, as re ported by committee on revision and adjustment................... 1780 amendment of, to section 2 of minor ty report from committee on future amendments...........m.......... 1314 PAGES OF CONVENTION-a presentation to president on behalf of................................. 1029 remarks in reference to apl)point ment of........................... 54 remarks of president on presentation on behalf of....................... 1029 resolution of Mr. Turner in referenc e to payment of.................... 75 resolution of Mr. Vandeventer in ref erence to appointment of..........ane 54 li-2 PAPERS daily, resolution of Mr. Craig to fur niish to members of convention... 180 OAT]L OF OFFICE-Continued. of members of future conventions, resolution of instruction of Mr. Springer, to committee on future amendments, in reference to form of................................. 193 of members of General Assembly, amendment to constitution in ref eredee to.......................... 139 OBLIGATION OF ILLINOIS CENTRAL RAILROAD resolutionofinstructionof Mr. At-. kins to comn-iittee on railroad cor I porations, to amend constitution in reference to..................... 176 OPENING PRAYER of convention...................... 9 4 1 PARKS Lake and Dearborn, resolution of Mr. Anthony in reference to........... 154 OFFICES railroad, petition in reference to loca tion of....... 289, 344, 365, 451, 510, 589 of rai-iroad corporations in thir, State, resolution of Mr. Anthony in refer ence to location of................ 148 OFFICE HOLDERS resolution of Mr. S,-dwick in refer ence to ineligibility of, to General Assembly and future conwntions.. 67 -....................................... 7 3 PARKS, SAMUEL C.-Confinued. PARKS, SAMUEL C.-C'onfieue~Z. PATTERSON, WM. 11.-Continued. remarks of, in debate on resolution in reference to furnishing stationery to members of convention........65, 66 remarks of, in debate on resolution in reference to oath of office..25, 26, 32 remarks of, in debate on resolution of instruction of Mr. Allen, of Craw ford, to committee on revenue in reference to taxation of church pro perty used for other than religious purposes.......................... 224 remarks of, in debate on the subject of printing prayers offered in con vention.......................... 170 remarks of, in reference to adoption of report from committee on ac counts and expenditures of conven tion in reference to unnecessary employes of convention........... 1231 remarks of, in reference to conven tion postage.......................1231 remarks of, on announcement of the death of Hon. Charles Emmerson..1337 remarks of, on communication from Secretary of State in reference to stationery furnished to conven tion...............................1818 remarks of, on election of president of convention..............5...... 50 remarks of, on question of privilege. 480 remarks of, on report firom commit tee on printing and binding, in ref- erence to publication of constitu tion............................... 1705 remarks of, on resolution in refer en ce to powers and duties of con vention.......... 92 remarks of, on resolution of Mr. Co dy in reference to committee-room of judiciary committee............. 988 report from committee on education, submitted by................... 1389 resol ution in reference to adjourn ment, sine die, of convention.rl...... 1677 resolution in reference to convention postage.......................... 1231 resolution in reference to furnishing stationery to members of conven tion............................... 65 resolution in reference to powers and duties of convention.............. 92 resolution in reference to use of hall of representatives for lecture..... 704 resolution of instruction to commit tee on accounts and expenditures of convention, in reference to the cost of convention reporting and rprinting...........................1649 resolution to refer report from com mittee of investigation on accounts of Secretary of State, to the gov ernor..............................1865 PARKS, SAMUEL C.-Continued. amendment of, to section 13 of report f rom committee on judiciary......1046 amendment of, to section 32 of report from committee on judiciary, as amen ded in commi ttee of the whole.............................1473 amendment of, to section 39 of report from committee on legislative de partment......................... 643 appointed member of committee on education......... 75 appointed member of executive com mittee............................ 75 appointed member of committee on revision and adjustment........... 75 appointed member of committee on state institutions and public build ligs......................I'lIl.... 75 communication in reference to the subject of a code, submitted by... 451 leave of absence granted t o........ 533 petition in reference to railroad and warehouse frauds, submitted by... 654 petition on the subject of township organization, submitted b y........ 451 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on banks and currency, as amended in com mittee of the whole.....1686, 1687 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on coun. ties, as amended in committee of the whole.........................1512 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on edu cation, as amended in committee of the whole................... 1746, 1754 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on judi ciary, as amended in committee of the whole.............. 1398, 1411, 1444 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on legis lative department, as amended in committee of the whole........... 942 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on rail road corporations, as amended in committee of the whole........... 1711 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on right of suffrage, as amended in commit mittee of the whole.......... 1304, 1306 remarks of, in debate in convention on report frommcommittee on sched ule, as amended in committee of the whole............................. 1820 remarks of, in debate on article in ref erence to municipal subscriptions to capital stock of private corpora tions.............................. 1239 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on banks and currency.1680 remarks of, in debate on reports from committees on canal and canal lands and on internal improve ments.......................... 462, 464 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on education.........1734 1735, 1738 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on electoral and repre sentative reform..........1729 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on executive depart ment.............764, 785 remarks of, in debate on1 report from committee on future amendments.1314 '~ remarks of, in debate on report from,-4c#. committee on judiciary.......978 1006, 1007, 1008, 1009, 1045, 1046 1113, 1121, 1133, 1136, 1165, 12'25 remarks of, in debate on report fr-om committee on legislative depart -ment.......60Y2, 626, 643, 649, 681, 715 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on misceilaneous corpor ation s................1668 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on printing and binding in reference to printing and binding convention debates.........124 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on retrenchment and reform, in reference to convention and assembly expenses since 1862... 9 29 remarks of, in debate onl report fromn committee on schedule.......m9 remarks of, in debate on report firom committee on state, county and municipal indebtedness...,,^. 219 PASSAGE of bills over veto, resolution of Mr. Archer, in reference to..............67 of bills over veto, resolution of Mr. Archer in reference to, taken up and referred to committee on execu tive department................... 88 of bills over veto, resolution of Mr. - Wagner in reference to............218 of general and special laws by general assembly, resolution of Mr. Schol field in reference to............... 116 of local or special laws in certain cases, resolution of Mr. Scholfield in reference to..................... 127 of local or special laws in certain cases, resolution of Mr. Sedgwick in reference to.................... 76 PEIRCE, W. P.-(a Delegate f rom the Forty third Representative District.) amendment of, to article in reference to municipal subscriptions to capi tal stock of private corporations. 1235 amendment of, to first additional sec tion reported by committee on finance........................... 1785 amendment of, to report from com mittee on federal relations........1764 amendment of, to resolution of Mr. Browning in reference to afternoon sessions of convention............. 283 amendment of, to resolution of Mr. Vandeventer in reference to ap pointment of pages to convention.. 55 amendment of, to section 4 of article on executive, as reported by com mittee on revision and adjustment.1781 amendment of, to section 3 of report from committee on banks and cur rency............................. Xt79 amendment of, to section 11 of report from committee on legislative de partment.......................... 512 amendment of, to section 5 of report from committee on legislative de partment, as amended in committee of the whole...................... 941 amendment of, to section 2 of' report from committee on miscellaneous subjects, in reference to homestead exemptions....................... 910 amendment of, to section 9 of report from committee on schedule,:..,, 180! PATTERSON, WM. H., (a Delegate from the Forty-first Representative District.) announcement of death of........... 195 appointed member of committee on congressional apportionment...... 75 appointed member of committee on penitentiary and reformatory insti tutions............................ 75 appointed member of committee on retrenchment and reform.......... 75 appointed member of committee on schedule........................... 75 leave of absence granted to..........96 remarks on announcement of death of.............................. 195, 196 resolution of Mr. Anthony in refer ence to election of delegate to con vention in place of................ f 08 INDEX. 73 PATTERSON, WM. H.-Continued. re-solution of Mr. Church, in refer ence to election of delegate to convention, in place of............ 198 resolution of condolence of Mr. Goodell on death of............... 195 resolution of Mr. Rice in reference to election of delegate to convention in place of.......... 6.............. 2,00 resolution of Mr. Truesdale in refer ence to election of delegate to coiu vention in place of................ 1,98 resolution of Mr. Wells in reference to election of delegate to conven tion in place of.................... 197 PARKS, SAMUEL C.-Continued. PAY of chaplains, resolution of instruction of Mr. Hanna to committee on ac counts and expenditures of conven tion, in reference to:.............. 1029 of deceased and resiguldg members of convention, resolution of Mr. Sny der in reference to................ 987 of janitors, report from committee on accounts and expenditures of con vention In reference to............ 653 of janitors, resolution of Mr. Wright in reference to..................... 627 of policemen of convention, resolu tion of Mr. Bay,e in reference to..1202 additional, to porters, resolution of Mr. Merriam in reference to....... 1869 addition a], to secretaries of conven tion, remarks in'reference to. 1865, 1868 additional' to secretaries of conven tion, resolution of Mr. Peirce in ref erence to........................... 1860 PAYMENT of certain employes of convention, Resolution of Mr. Haines, of Lake' in reference to.................... 1208 of certain employes of convention, resolution of Mr. Turner in refer ence to -........................... 1189 of employee of convention, resolu tion of Mr. Neece in reference to.. 93 of officers and members of convention, resolution of Mr. Bowman in refer ence to............................. 192 of officers and members of cgnven tion, resolution of Mr' Fox in ref erence to.. 88 of officers an'Peters oi - -c.o.n.v.e.. tion, resol,.ition of Mr. Turner lia reference to....................... 87 of officers and members of,,conven tiod, resolution of Mr. Vandeventer in reference to.................... 429 of pages of convention, resolution of Mr. Turner in reference to......... 75 of temporary officers of convention, resolution of Mr. Snyder in refer ence to......................... 88, 92 INDEX. PEIRCE, W. P.-Continued. :: amendment of, to substitute of Mr. sBrowning to section 7 of report fro m co mmittee on judiciary, as amended in com mitte e of the whole............................. 1431 appointed member of committee on federal relations................... 75i appo inted member of committee on judicial divisions of the state...... 1103 appointed member of committee on military affairs.................... 275 appointed member of committee on revenue........................... 75 appointed member of committee on township organization............. 75 appointed member of committee to receive Gen. Sheridan............. 1416 article in reference to municipal sub scriptions to capital stock of pri vate corporations, submitted by....1104 communication in reference to asses ment and collection of city taxes, submitted by...................... 306 communication in reference to coun ty auditor, submitted by.......... 236 commiunication in reference to plant ing trees on highways, etc., rub mitted by......................... 286 communication in reference to side vyalks, submitted by............... 306 majority report from committee on federal relations, submihtted by.....1152 majority report from committee on township organization, submitted by................................ 293 memorial in rerference to damages committed by animals, submitted by................................ 873 petition in reference to location of railroad offices, submitted by...... 344 petition in reference to masonic inscriptions on public buildings, etc., submitted by................. 210 petition in reference to proposed changes in judiciary system, sub mitted by.......................... 320 petition in reference to railroad and warehouse frauds, submitted by... 560 remarks of, in debate in convention on article on municipal subscrip tions to capital stock of private corporations, as amended in com mittee of the whole............... 1730 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on judi ciary, as amended in committee of the whole................... 1432, 1474 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on legis lative department, as amended in committee of the whole........ 934, 962 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on reve nue, as amended in committee of the whole............ 1605, 1611, 1619 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on right of suffrag-e, as amended in commit tee of the whole................. 1297 remarks, of, in debate on amendment of Mr. Merriam to resolution of in quiry of Mr. Fox, to State Auditor, in reference to expenses of general assembly since 186'S............... 69 remarks of, in debate on article in reference to municipal subscrip tions to capital stock of private corporations.............123.5, 123S6, 1241 remarks of, in debate on reports from committees on canal and canal lands, and on internal improve ments...........,....375, 378 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on counties 13.....151 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on exzecutive depart ment................ 5 remarks of, on report from commit tee on federal rela~tions...1764, 1768 remarks of', in debate on report from committee on finance........1785 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on fuature amnendments.. 1316 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on judiciary.... 1081, 1188 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on legislative depart ment...511, 542, 567, 56M, 588, 643, 649 remarks of, in debate on report from; committee on mines and maineral interests, in reference to the pro tection of the lives of miawrs...... 27, PEIRCE, W. P.-Continued. remarks of, in debate on report from committee on printing, in reference to printing and binding convention debates...............103, 108, 109, 110 remarks of,in debate on report from committee on railroad corpora tins...............................1645 remarks of, in debate on report from c ommittee on revenue............1244 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on schedule....... 1801, 1802 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on township organiza tion.....................874, 875, 87 S 8 PENITENTIARY CONVICTS pardoned during the past ten years, communication from Governor of state in reference to number of.... 54 pardoned during the past ten years, communication from Secretary of State in referencee to number of.... 306 pardoned during the past ten years, .resolution of inquiry of Mr. Cars to Governor of state, in reference to number of...................... 168 remarks of, in debate on resolution in reference to oath of office....15, 45, 47 remarks of, in debate on resolution in reference to reports of standing committees...................... 258 remarks of, in debate on resolution of Mr. Browning in reference to after noon sessions of convention....... 283 remarks of, in debate on resolution of Mr. Wells in reference to elec tion of delegate to convention, in place of IHon. Wm. H. Patterson, deceased......................e.... 205 remarks of, in debate on the subject of printing prayers offered in con vention........................... 171 remarks of, on announcement of the death of Hon. Chas. Emnmerson.... 1335 remarks of, on res o lution in reference to additional pay of secretaries of convention........................ 1860 remarks of, on submission of article in reference to municipal sub scriptions to capital stock of pri vate corporations............... 1104 remarks of, on submission of major ity report from committee on fed eral relations...................... 153 remarks of, on submission of report from committee on township or ganization, in reference to plant ing trees on highways............ 161 report from committee on federal re lations, in the form of resolutions, submitted by......................1764 report from committee on township organization, in reference to plant ing trees on highways, submitted b y................................. 161 resolution in reference to additional pay to secretaries of convention....1860 resolution in reference to evening ses sions of convention..............1477 resolution in reference to furnishing additional postage stampslto mem bers of convention................ 481 resolution in reference to names and meetings of townships............ 182 resolution in reference to oath of office.................. 10 47 resolution in reference to ratio of representation......................91 resolution in reference to reports of standing committees............... 258 resolution of inquiry to Auditor of State, in reference to township or ganization........................ 758 resolution of instruction to commit tee on legislative department, in reference to general and special laws.............................. 98resolution of instruction to commit tee on legislative department, in reference to special legislation. 212 resolution of instruction to commit tee on revision and adjustment, in reference to proposition of Mr. Browning in regard to railroad and municipal indebtedness of Quincy, Illinois...s s......................... 1814 resolution of instruction to commit tee on state institutions sand pub lic buildings, in reference to ap pointment of board of public chari ties..................,.... 84 resolution of Mr. Sherrill in reference to official fees, and the eligibility of sheriffs to re-election, reported back from committee on township organization b y..........245 resolution to print report from Audi tor of State in reference to town ship organization.................1.0substitute of, to section 10 of report from committee on legislative de partment....... Lak,..in.r.feren 7t3 PENITENTIARY AND REFORM STORY INSTITUTIONS, COMMITTEE ON appointment of..................... 75 article in reference to management of prisons, submitted by Mr. Antho ny, in reference to................. 153 communication in reference to sale of the products of penitentiary labor, referred to......................... 451 communication from the Stone Cut ters' Association of Rock Island, in reference to convict labor, referred to................................. 118 resolution of Mr. Wagner, in refer ence to management of prisons, re ferred to.......................... 321 resolution of Mr. Wall in reference to management. of state penitentiary, referred to......................... 679 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Brown in reference to mechanical labor in state penitentiarv......... 192 resolution of instruction (io, of"Mr. Eldredge, in reference to the estab lishment of local penitentiaries.....177 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Wall, in reference to state peniten - tiary.................... 1277 I 74: PENITENTIARY resolution of inquiry of Mr. Archer to warden of, in reference to con. victs pardoned during the past teu years............................. 154 labor, communication in reference to the sale of products of............. 451 PENITENTIARY OF STATE communication from Auditor of Pub lie Accounts, in -reference to ex penses of, since 1867............... 261 resolution of Mr. Wall in reference to management of..................... 679, resolution of inquiry of Mr. Wall' to Auditor of Public Accounts, in ref erence to expenses of since 1867.... 178 resolution of instruction of Mr. Wall to committee on penitentiary and reformatory, institutions, in refer ence to............................ 1277 PENITENTIARIES local, resolution of instruction of Mr. Eldredge, to committee on peniten tiary aind reformatory institutions, in reference to establishment of... - 177 PEOPLE resolution of.Mr. Archer, in reference to sovereignty of.................. 113 PEOPLE OF THE STATE appointment of committee to prepare address to......................... 1783 appointment of committee to select committee to prepare address to...1732_ remarks on report from committee on miscellaneous subjects. in ref erence to preparation of address T, 0............................ 1731,1732 report from committee on miseella neou,i subjects, in reference to preparation of address to.......... 1731 report from committee appointed to select committee to prepare address to, submitted bT Mr. Cummings..1783 resolution of Mr-. EDglish in refer ence to preparation of address to.167-# resolution of Mr. Sedgwick, to ap point committee to prepare ad dressto............................ 17C6 PER DIEM during recess of convention, reso lution of Mr. English in reference to.................... ;........... 1860 during recess, of membe of conven tion, resolution of Mr. Haines, of Lake'-in reference to... -... I...... 34-5 INDEX. PERLEY, PELEG S.-Continued. remarks of, in debate on report from c ommittee on miscellaneous sub jects in reference to homestead ex em stions......................... 900 remarks of, ill debate on report from committee on printing and binding, in reference to furnishing newspa pers to convention............129, 131 remarks of, in debate on report from. committee on revenue.............1268 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on roads and internal navigation......................, 883 remarks of, in debate on resolution of Mr. Snyder in reference to furnish i n g newspapers to members of con vention....................... 60 remarks of, in debate on resolution of instruction of Mr. Allen, of Craw ford, to committee on revenue, in reference to taxation of church property used for other than reli gious purposes................... 225 remarks of, in reference to order of business...................... 883 remarks of, in reference to printing address and constitution..........1843 remarks of, on the announcement of the death of IHon. H. W. Billings..1450 remarks of, on announcement of the death of Hon. A. G. Kirkpatrick...1229 remarks of, on announcement of the death of HLon. W. I11. Patterson.... 196 remarks of, on calling up of resolu tion of Mr. Wendling, on the sub ject of Washington's birthday..... 794 remarks of, on question of privilege.1180 remarks of, on the subject of print ing prayers offered in convention.. 140 remarks of, on substitute of Mr. Cam. eronutto resolution of Mr. Peirce in reference to additional pay to secre taries of convention................. 1869 resolution in reference to religious liberty....................... 179 resolution of Mr. Eldredge in refer ence to public highways, reported back from committee on roads and internal navigation by............ 257 resolution of Mr. Ilankins in refer ence to compensation for private property appropriated to public use, reported back firom committee on roads and internal navigation by..........................2 257 resolution of Mr. McCoy to amend constitution in reference to eminent domain, reported back from com mittee on roads and internal navi gation by..................... 257 substitute of, to resolution of Mr. Wendling on the subject of Wash ington's birth-day................. 782 in reference to the division of coun ties, submitted by Mr. Hart....... 389 in reference to the evils of adultera tion, submitted by the president... 305 in reference to extraordinary judicial oaths, submitted by Mr. Wheaton.1012 in reference to female suffrage, sub mitted by Mr. Haines, of Lake.... 479 487, 510, 560, 613, 1077 in reference to female suffrage, sub mitted by Mr. Pillsbury........... 451 in reference to female suffrage, sub mitted by Mr. Wells............... 487 in reference to fencing lands, submit ted by Mr. Underwood............ 1062 in reference to the formation and di vision of counties, submitted by Mr. Eldredge...................... 451 in reference to the formation of a home legislature, submitted by Mr. Eldredge...................... 156 in reference to the formation of a new county, submitted by Mr. Sedg wick.............................. 451 in reference to the formation of new counties, submitted by Mr. Han kins.............................. 757 in reference to the formation of new counties, submitted by Mr. Tincher. 5.89 in reference to the formation of new counties, submitted by Mr. Wend ling................... 726 in reference to highways, submitted by Mr. Skinner.................... 627 in reference to holding over of term of office by certain officers, submit ted by Mr. Pillsbury.............. 451 in reference to judicial article, sub mitted by Mr. Harwood...........1361 in reference to the jurisdiction of jus tices of the peace, submitted by Mr. Sedgwick..................... 344 in reference to landlords, etc., sub mitted by Mr. Haines, of Cook.... 726 in reference to location of national capital, submitted by Mr. Brown ing............................ 280 in reference to location of railroad of fices, submitted by Mr.]Anthony.. 344 in reference to location of railroad of fices, submitted by Mr. Eldredge.. 451 in reference to location of railroad of fices, submitted by Mr. Fuller..... 365 in reference to location of railroad of ces, submitted by Mr. Goodhue.... 365 in reference to location of railroad of offices, submitted by Mr. Parker.. 289 in reference to location of railroad offices, submitted by Mr. Peirce... 344 in,reference to location of railroad offices, submitted by Mr. Perley... 365 in reference to location of railroad offices, submitted by Mr. Wall.... 510 in reference to location of railroad offices, submitted by Mr. Wheaton 365 589 PERMANENT OFFICERS OF CONVEN TION resolution of Mr. Coolbaugh in refer ence to election of........... ir..... 49 resolution of Mr. Fox in reference to election of.......................t. 50 PERLEY, PELEG S.-(a Delegate from the Forty-fifth Representative District.) amendment of, to resolution of Mr. Allen, of Crawford, in reference to printing veto messages............ 152 amendment of, to section 8 of article on counties, as reported by commit tee on revision and adjustment.... 1836 amendment of, to sections 6 and 23 of article on judiciary, as reported by committee on revi-ion and adjust ment........................ 1811, 1812 amendment of, to section 1 of article on legislative department, as re ported by committee on revision and adjustment................... 1779 amendment of, to sections 1 and 2 of article on revenue, as reported by committee on revision and adjust ment............................. 1834 amendment of, to section 8 of report from committee on counties, as amended in committee of the whole1519 amendment of, to section I of report from committee on education.....1733 amendment of, to sectioft 12 of report from committee on executive de partment................. 781 amendment of, to section 3 of report from committee on legislative de partment......................... 506 appointed member of committee on Finance;..................... 75 appointed member of committee on judicial circuits.................... 75 appointed member of committee on legislative apportionment.......... 75 appointed member of committee on roads and internal navigation..... 75 communication on the subject of drains, submitted by.............. 365 leave of absence granted to.....289, 1596 majority report from committee on roads and internal navigation in reference to private roads, submit ted by.......................... 257 petition against female suffrage, sub mitted by.......... 1477 petition in favor of femae suffrage submitted by.............1842 petition in reference to location of railroad offices, submitted by...... 365 petition in reference to use of the Bible in common schools,submitted by............................. 1103 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on leg islative department, as amended in committee of the whole........... 950 remarks of, in debate on reports from committees on canal and canal lands and on internal improvements..... 423 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on counties.......1346, 1361 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on education...........1734 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on, executive depart ment.............................. 763 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on judiciary................1041 1042, 1065, 1141, 1164, 1218 PERRY, REV. MR.-i prayer offered by....................1075 submitted ~ERSNA by182inrfeenetolcaio f alra PERSONAL LIBERTY- t s article in reference to................ 177 PETITIONS and communications, remarks in ref erence to record of........344 remarks on the subject of printing.. 306 in reference to Masonic inscriptions on public buildings, etc., submitted by Mr. Haincs, of Cook........... 320 in reference to Masonic inscriptions on public buildings, submitted by Mr. Peirce...................... 210 In reference to Masonic inscriptions on public buildings, submitted by Mr. Wrighti....................... 365 in reference to minority representa tion, submitted by Mr. Goodhue.... 703 in reference to observance of the Sab bath, submitted by Mr. Bayne..... 451 479, 560, 613, 703, 1129 in reference to observance of the Sab bath, submitted by Mr. Cary...... 679 in reference to observance of the Sab bath, submitted by Mr. Hart....... 702 in reference to observance of the Sab bath, submitted by Mr. Poage.... 389 PETITION-i against female suffrage, submitted by Mr. Cross.........................1502 against female suffrage, submitted by Mr. Hays.......c.. 14, 16..1477 against female suffrage, submitted by Mr. Perley........................1477 against female suffrage, submitted by Mr. Skinner.................1550i t e in favor of female suffrage, submitted by Mr. Perley.............. 1842 in reference to the acknowledgment of the power of the Almighty, sub mitted by Mr. Underwood.........1319 in reference to the circuit court of Will county, submitted by Mr. Goodhue.........,................. 235 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on legislative depart ment..........................5U, 718 I-20 '75 PER DlEiNI-Continued. of members and employes of conven tiod, resolution of Mr. McDowell iuf,reference to.................... 1178 of members and officers of conven tion, etc., report from committee on accounts and expenditures of 'convention, in reference to........ 997 of members and officers of conven tion, resolution of Mr. King in ref erence to.......................... 1425 of members and offlcers of conven tion,-resolution of Mr. Turner in reference to..... 987 of members and or's'.0-i - -co.n.v. -e.n. tion,- resolution of instruction of Mr. Turner, to committee on ac counts and expenditures of conven tion, in reference to............... 895 of members and offleers of conven tion, resolution of Mr. Turner in reference to, reported back from committee on accounts and expendi tures of convention, and agreed to 998 PETITION-Continued. in reference to the Cook county judi ciary, submitted by Mr. Coolbaugh. 965 in reference to county and township lines, submitted by Mr. Cameron.. 679 in reference to the courts of Cook county, submitted by Mr. Hayes..1040 in reference to the division of Cook county, submitted by Mr. Came rOn........................... 365, 851 in Reference to the division of coun ties, submitted by Mr. Cameron.... 306 in reference to the division of coun ties, submitted by Mr. Eldredge... 389 589 INDEX. PTTOCotiu. PETTIO-oniu. PEIIN EERE-CoKtnue PETITION-Continued. in reference to use of bible in com mon schools, submitted by Mr. Per ley.................................1103 in reference to the use of the bible in common schools, submitted by Mr. Poage........................ 389 in reference to the use of the bible in common schools, submitted by Mr. Sedgwick..................... 510 in reference to the use of bible in common school>, submitted by Mr. Wagner.......................... 34m in reference to use of hall of represen. tives for lecture, submitted by Mr. Hay............................... 56 in reference to warehouse frauds, etc., submitted by Mr. Eldredge........ 589 in reference to warehouse frauds, sub mitted by Mr. Vandeventer........o 736 in reference to warehouse frauds, submitted by Mr. Wagner......... 782 in reference to warehouse and railroad frauds, submitted by Mr. Cary..... 627 in reference to warehouse and rail road frauds, submitted by Mr. Haines, of Cook................... 679 on the subject of commerce, submit ted by Mr. Skinner................ 744 on the subject of counties, submitted by Mr. Cross......................1324 on the subject of liberty, submitted by Mr. Underwood................ 250 on the subject of secret societies, sub mitted by Mr. Cody...............1634 on the subject of township organiza tion, submitted by Mr. Parks...... 451 PiETITION-Continued. in reference to the observance of the Sabbath, submitted by Mr. Sedg wick.............................. 510 in reference to the observance of the Sabbath, submitted by Mr. Wells.. 745 in reference to the observance of the seventh day, submitted by Mr. For man............................. 1477 in reference to the observance of the seventh day, submitted by Mr. Wells............................. 1103 in reference to preamble, submitted by Mr. Bayne..................... 479 in reference to prohibitory liquor laws, submitted bv Mr. Turner....1621 in reference to proportionate repre senitation from National Union of Bricklayers of No)rth America, sub mitted by Mr. Cameron............ 235 in reference to the proposed changes in the judiciary system, submitted by Mr.?eirce................... 320 in reference to railroads, submitted by Mr. Skinner....................... 627 in reference to railroad and ware house frauds, submitted by Mr. Bayne............................. 627 in reference to railroad and ware house frauds, submitted by Mr. De ment.............................. 627 in reference to railroad and ware house frauds, submitted by Mr. Eldrage,............. 560, 627, 679, 702 in reference to railroad and ware house frauds, submitted by Mr. Medill............................ 654 in reference to railroad and warehouse frauds, submitted by Mr. Merriam. 560 590 PETITIONS REFERRED petition against female suffrage, refer red to committee on right of suf frage (2)........................... 1477 petition in reference to the acknowl ment of the power of the Almighty, referred to committee on bill of rights............................. 1319 petition in reference to Cook county judiciary, referred to committee on judiciary.......................... 965 petition in reference to county and township lines, referred to commit tee on niscellaneous corporations. 679 petition in reference to the cour-ts of Cook county, referred to commit tee on judiciary...................1040 petition in reference to the division of Cook county, referred to corn mittee on counties............. 366, 851 rpetition in reference to the division of counties, referred to committee on counties................ 306, 389, 589 petition in reference to the evils of aduilteration, referred to committee on legislative department.......... 306 petition in reference to extraordinary judicial oaths, referred to commit. tee on miscellaneous subjects.....11 pioirentsa. 1012 petition in reference to female suf frage, referred to committee on right of sugrage- - --- f.................. 451 479, 487, 510, 560, 613, 1077, 1842 petition in reference to fencing lands, referred to committee on manufac tures and agriculture....ev....o1062 petition in reference to the formationl of a new county, referred to com- mittee on counties..............,.. 451o petition in reference to the formation of new counties, referred to com mittee on counties........ 389, 726, 757 petition in reference to the forma tion and division of counties, refer- red to committee on counties -..... 451 petition in reference to the formation of a home legislature, referred to committee on legislative depart ment.............................. 156 petition in reference to highways, re ferred to commitee on roads and internal navigation............... 627 petition in reference to holding over of term of office by certain officers, referred to committee on municipal corporations.........45......................ogn o 451 petition in reference to the jurisdic tion of justices of the peace, refer red to committee on judiciary — 3......PTTO 344O petition in reference to landlords, etc., referred to committee on judiciary. 726 petition in reference to location of national capital, referred to con m mittee on federal relations......... d d * v PETITIONS REFERRED- alroatnuec. petition in reference to location ot railroad offices, referred to commit tee on railroad corporations........ 344 365, 451, 510, 589 petition in reference to Masonic in scripti ons on public buildings, etc., referred to committee on judiciary 320 petition in reference to Masonic in scriptions on publ ic buildings, etc., recalled from committee on judicia ry, page 32, referred to committee on miscellaneous subjects........I.I.I.II 365 petition in reference to Masonic in scriptions on public buildings, re ferred to committee on miscellane ous subjects.................... 210, 365 petition in reference to minority rep resentation, referred to committee on electoral and representative re form.............................. 703 petition in reference to observance of the Sabbath, referred to committee on bill of rights................... 745 petition in reference to observance of the Sabbath, referred to committee on miscellaneous subjects......... 389 451, 479, 510, 560, 613. 679, 702, 703 petition~ in reference to the observ ance of the seventh day, referred to committee on bill of rights..1103, 1477 petition in reference to preamble, re ferred to committee on miscellane ous subjects......................... 479 petition in reference to prohibitory liquor laws, referred to committee on municipal corporations......... 1621 petition in reference to proposed changes in the judiciary system, re ferred to committee on judiciary... 320 petition in reference to railroads, re ferred to committee on railroad cor porations.......................... 627 petition in reference to railroad and warehouse frauds, referred to com mittee on miscellaneous corpora tions............. 627, 654, 679, 702, 757 petition in reference to railroad and warehouse frauds, referred to com mittee on miscellaneous subjects.. 560 590, 757 petition in -reference to reporter of supreme court, referred to commit tee on judiciary................... 894 petition in reference to the right of suffrage, referred to committee on right of suffrage................... 479 petition in reference to the rights bf women, referred to committee on right of suffrage................... 826 petition in reference to sale of intoxi cating liquors, referred to commit tee on miscellaneous subjects...344, 451 petition in reference to sectarian pref erences, referred to committee on miscellaneous subjects............. 798 petition in reference to state reporter. referred to committee on printing and binding....................... 389 petition in reference to suffrage, re ferred to committee on right of suf frage................ 531 petition in reference to township or ganization, referred to committee on township organlization...... 1528 petition in reference to use of bible in common schools, referred to com-, mittee on educatio)n.......e... 252 344, 38p, 479, 510, 560, 613 629, 679, 702, 1030, 1103, 1129 petition in reference to warehouse frauds, &;c., referred to committee on miscellaneous corporations... 589 736, 782 petition on the subject of commerce, referred to committee on miscella neous.~ubjects..... 74 petition on the subect of counties, re ferred to committee on counties...1824 petition on the subject of secret so cieties, referred to comnmittee on miscellaneouse subjects................. 1634 petition on the ~ubject of township~ organization, retbrred to committee on township organization............... 451 in reference to railroad and ware h ou se frauds, submitted by Mr. Par ker......................... 757 in reference to railroad and ware house frauds, submitted by Mr. Parks............................. 654 in reference to railroad and warehouse frauds, submitted by Mr. Peirce... 560 in reference to railroad and warehouse frauds, submitted by Mr. Pillsbury 702 in reference to railroad and warehouse frauds, submitted by Mr. Wait..... 702 in reference to railroad and warehouse frauds, submitted by Mfr. Wheaton. 757 in reference to railroad and warehouse frauds, submitted by Mr. Whiting.. 627 in reference to the removal of county seats. submitted by Mr. McCov....1502 in reference to the removal of county seats, submitted by Mr. Vandeven ter................................ 1477 in reference to the r'ht of suffrage, submitted by Mr. B3rowning....... 479 in reference to the rights of women, submitted by Mr. Bayne........... 826 in reference to the eale of intoxica ting liquors, submitted by Mr. Pills bury.............................. 451 in reference to the sale of intoxica ting liquors, submitted by Mr. Wheaton........................... 344 in reference to sectarian preferences, submitted by Mr. Allen, of Alexan der................................ 798 in reference to state reporter, sub mitted by Mr. Goodell............ 389 in reference to state senate, submit ted by Mr. Anthony............... 223 in reference to suffrage, submitted by Mr. English....................... 531 in reference to supreme court report er, submitted by Mr. Goodell....... 894. in reference-to supreme court report er, submitted by Mr. Pillsbury.... 250 in reference to township organiza tion, submitted by Mr. I,cCoy..... 1528 in reference to the use -of the bible in common schools, submitted by Mr. Bayne.......................... 251 844, 389, 479, 560, 613, 702, 1129 in reference to the use of the bible in common schools, submitted by Mr. Browning.......................... 629 in reference to the use of bible in common schools, submitted by Mr. Cary............................... 679 in reference to use of bible in com mon schools, submitted by Mr. Hart.............................. 702 In reference to use of the bible in common schools, submitted by Mr. Harwood....................-.v1030 i 76 ETITIONS REPORTED BACK petition in reference, to masonic in scriptions on public buildings re ported back from committee on miscellaneous cubjects by Mr. Un cterwood........................ 267, m I~~~~I)]~~~~~~X.'77~~~~~~ PETITIONS REPORTED BACK Coatinued. PILLSBURY, NATHAN J.-Uontinued. POSTAGE STAMPS-Continued. resolution of instruction to commit tee on miscellaneous subjects in reference to the investment of funds of insurance companies..... 193 resolution of instruction to commit tee on miscellaneous subjects in reference to investment of funds of insurance companies. reported back from committee on miscellaneous subjects......................t..... 2s57 resolution requesting information from Auditor of State in reference to gross earnings of Illinois Central Railroad since June 11, 1862......... 80 substitute of, to section 7 of report from committee on legislative de partment, as amended in commit tee of the whole.................. 922 POSTAGE STAMPS-Continued. addi tional, resolution of Mr. aines, of Lake, o frn to furnish to convention....180 resolution of Mr. Med ll to f urnish to secretary of convention......... 1231 additional, resolution of Mr. Peirce in reference to furnishing to mem bers of convention................. 481 for convention, resolution of Mr. Un derwood in reference to........... 93 resolution of Mr. Washburn to refund value of........................... 346 additional resolution of Mr. Wend ling in reference to ftrnishing to secretary of convention........... 367 resolution of Mr. Wendliiig to fur nish to secretary of convention....1231 PILLSBURY, NATHAN J.-(a Delegate from the Forty-fourth Representative District.) additional section to report from committees on canal and canal lands, and on internal improve ments, offered by................. 312 additional section to report from committee on township organiza tion, offered by.................... 882 amendment of, to report from com mittees on canal and canal lands, and on internal improvements.... 312 amendment of, to sections 1, 7 and 30 of report from committee on legis lative department........ 499, 742, 558 amendment of, to sections 11 and 23 of report from committee on sched ule, as amended in committee of the whole...................1828,1829 amendment of, to substitute of Mr. Anthony to section 32 of report from committee on legislative de partment......................... 573 amendment of, to substitute of Mr. Fox to section 3 of report from committee on legislative depart ment............................. 506 appointed member of committee on banks and currency............... 75 appointed member of committee on manufactures and agriculture.... 75 appointed member of committee on revenue........................... 75; appointed member of committee on right of suffrage.................. 75 leave of absence granted to...... 194, 589 965,1077 petition in reference to female suf frage, submitted by................ 451 petition in refercnce to holding over of term of office by certain officers, submitted by..................... 451, petition in reference to railroad and warehouse frauds, submitted by... 702 petition in reference to the sale of in toxicating liquors, submitted by.. 4511 petition in reference to supreme court reporter, submitted by............ 250 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on legis lative department, as amended in committee of the whole........... 923 remarks of, in debate on report from committees on canal and canal lands and on internal improvements..... 4~2 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on executive depart ment.............................. 790 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on legislative depart ment................. 553, 573, 722, 738 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on roads and internal navigation........................ 888 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on township organiza tion............................... 882 remarks of, in debate on resolution of Mr. English in reference to recess of convention..................... 830 remarks of, in debate on resolution of Mtr. Snyder in reference to furnish-; ing newspapers to members of con vention......................... 64 remarks of, in debate on the subject of recess of conv~enltion............... 871 resolution in reference to considera tion of reports of committees in committee of the whole *..... 490 resolution in reference to sale of in toxricsting liquor........................... 151 resolution of instruction to comlmit teeon judiciary, to amend consti tution in refere-nce to coulrt of common plats, eme...............?o PLANTING TREES ON HIGHWAYS amendment to constitution in refer ence to............................ 63 etc., petition in reference to......... 236 remarks of Mr. Medill on the subject of................................. 83 report from committee on township organization in reference to....... 161 report from committee on accounts and expenditures of convention, in reference to....................... 857 resolution of Mr. Robinson in refer ence to employment- of, during re cess of convention................. 1208 resolution of instruction of Mr. Cam eron to committee on accounts and expenditures of convention, in ref erenee to.......................... 758 resolution of instruction of Mr. Fox to.................................1863 and assistant postmaster, roll call on election of........................ 5, PLEADINGS, ETC. resolution of Mr. Wendling in refer ence to amendment of............. 261 POAGE, JAS. S.-(a Delegate from the Thirty-second Representative District.) appointed member of committee on legislative apportionment.......... 75 appointed member of committee on miscellaneous subjects...................... 75 appointed member of committee on aretrenchment and reform............PSP EM 75 leave of absence granted to.......... 333 965, 1156, 1634 petition in refereinie' to.observance of the Sabb.ath, submitted by...... 389 petition in reference to the use of the Bible in common schools, submit ted by............................. 389 prayer offered by.................... 166 remarks of, in delbate on article in reference to municipal subscriptions to capital stock of private corpora- tions..............................1236 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on retrenchment and re form, in reference to covention and assembly expenses since 1862...... 226 remarks of, in debate on resolution in reference to oath of office....... 43 remarks of, in debate on resolution of Mr. Snyder in reference to fur nishing newspapers to members of convention........................ 60 remarks of, in debate on resolution of instruction of Mr. Allen, of Crawford, to committee on revenue in reference to taxation of church li eproperty used for other than reli gious purposes.................... 224 remarks of, on report of committee on bill of rights, in reference to preamble......................... 209 resolution in reference to publication of legislative expenses............. 260 resolution in reference to use of hall of representatives for lecture...... 429 POLICEMEN OF CONVENTION- resolution of Mr. Bayne in reference to pay of..........................1202 PORTERS- i rft resolution of Air. Merriam in refer-. ence to additional pay to..........1E 1869 PORTRAITS — of Abraham Lincoln and Stephen A. Douglas, complimentary resolution of M'r. Tincher, in reference to.... 178 i n n w s u p r s t o m e b e s f o n 3 5PO S', 1 1 8, 1 2 3,-4 POSTAGE-o to convention, resolution of Mr. King in reference to...............1763 PRAYER clos ing, offered by Rev. Mr. Rober t son.............................. 1870 opening, offered by Rev. Alber t Hale. 9 offered by Rev. Dr. Bergen...........249 305, (G52, 1178, 1l, 1I8 o ffered by Rev i. Crr(.swin........r 93, 757 offered by Rev. Mr. Carnahan........, 43 100, 332. 782. 798. 987, 1030 122 8, 1232, 150 3, 1575. offered by Rev. Mr. Crane.........o 5, 627 u offered by Rev. Mr. Ford............ 117 com:uton~~~~ 826, 1c596, 1859 offered by Rev. Mr. Hale...........9, 155 851, 1232, 1318, 13$S 1476, 1526, 1676, 1758 offered by Rev. Mr. YIarsba.......... 487 offered by Rev. Mr. Hewett........ 1361 INDEX. 77 PILLSBURY, NATHAN J.-Continued. PETITIONS REPORTED BACK- Continued. .petition in reference to observance of the Sabbath, reported back from Fommittee on miscellaneous sub jects by Mr. Underwood........... 798 PHILLIPS, REV. MR. prayer offered by............ 128, 279, 560 PHYSICIANS AND LA.WYERS communication in reference to the use of English language by....... 280 communication in reference to the use of English language by, re ported back frol-n committee on miscellaneous subjects............ 857 POSTMASTER OF CONVENTION and assistant postmaster, debate in reference to election of.......... 53, 54 and assistant postmaster, election of 53 54 POSTMASTER OF SPRINGFIELD bill from............................ 1529 POSTPONEMENT OF SPECIL ORDR, R remarks in reference to............... 1477 .POWER of the Almighty, petition in reference to acknowledgment of............ 1319 of supreme court, resolution of Yir. Hart in reference to............... 1121 POWERS AND, DUTIES- - of city mayors, resolution of!fr. AnthODY in reference to.......... 154 ,of convention, resolution oflvir. Parks in reference tg..................... 91 POWERS OF STKTE DEPARTIAENT resolution of Mr. Wait in reference to................................. 98 POWERS OF STATE GOVERN1,14ENT remitrks on article on distribution of. -279 report ftom committee on bill of rights, in reference to............. 281 resolution of Mr. Benjamin to amend I article 2-d of constitution in refer ence to............................ 192 PRAIRIES resolution of,Mr. Underwood in ref. crence to essav on the origin of... 481 complimentary resolution of Mr. Whiting in reference to essay on the origin of........................... 488 PRAYERS OFFERED IN CONVENTION debate on the subject of....... 168 to 172 remarks on the subject of printing.. 139 140 resolution of Mr. Coolbaugh to dis continue the printing of........... 169 POSTAGE STAMPS resolution of Mr. Cross, in reference to furnithing to mernbers of con vention...........................:-1320 resolution of Mr. IL-.ineB of Lake, in to ftirni3h'ng members of convention.,91, 34 INDEX. PRESIDENT-Continue&. communication from Secretary of State in reference to stationery fur nished to convention, submitted by 1815 communication from State Agricul tural Society in reference to the es tablishment of a state bureau of sta tistics, submitted by............... 128 communication from State Treasurer asking that resolution of inquiry in reference to additional salaries of circuit judges be referred to Audi tor of State, submitted b y......... 222 communication from State Treasurer in reference to the duties and com pensation of that offieer, submitted by............................... 177 communication from Superintendent of Public Instruction in reference to school statistics, submitted by.. 305 332 announcement of the death of Hon. H. W. Billings by.................1446 announcement of the death of Hon. Chas. Emmerson by............... 1334 announcement of death of Hon. W. H. Patterson by.......... 195 certificate of election of Hon. Henry Tubbs, presented by...............1.319 closing address by...................187C communication in reference to the ac tion of clerks of circuit courts as recorders in certain cases, submit ted by............................ 289 communication in reference to cer tain reports of circuit judges, sub ofitred by.... I................... 389, 653 communication in reference to female suffrage, submitted by hubli, Instructi... 129 communication from Auditor of Pub lie Accounts in reference to ex penses of State penitentiary since 1867, submitted by................. 261 communication from Auditor of Pub Accounts in reference to railroads, etc., submitted by.................1526 communication from Auditor of State in reference to appropriations by general assembly, submitted by.... 365 communication from Auditor of State in reference to assessed value of property in the State for the past four years, presented by...... 137 communication from Auditor of State in reference to Auditor's warrants issued in favor of Superintendent of Public Instruction, submitted by..................................1759 communication from Auditor of State in reference to cost of registration for the years 1868-9, submitted by.. 280 communication from Auditor of State in referende to earnings of Illinois Central railroad, submitted by..... 100 communication from Auditor of State in reference to ex,enses of 25th and 26th general assemblies, sub mitted by.......................... 305 communication from Auditor of State in reference to Illinois and Michi gan canal, submitted by......... 487 communication from Auditor of State in reference to salaries of circuit judges for certain services rendered, submitted by.......setrtotapti.....280 communication from Auditor of State in reference to the sale of lands be, longing to Joel A. Matteson, sub mitted by......................... 510 communication from Auditor of State in reference to his services and,fees, submitted by...................... 196 communication from Auditor of State in reference to state and other in debtedness to public schools, sub mitted by.................... 155 communication from Auditor of State in ieference to township organiza tion, submitted by........1075 communication from Auditor of State on cost of printing and binding, submitted by...................... 128 communication from the clerk of the reakofindbtonrslto PRESENT YSTEM O NUMBERNG BAL- board of supervisors of Cook coun- o r el nrfrnet lc LOTS- ~~~~~~~~~~ty in reference to certain proceed. - ino eeaet ovnini resoltion f Mr.Camern in efer-lugs of said board, submitted by.. 155 paeo in m.Ptesn euce o....................98 State in reference to number ofieak f ndbt nrslto PRESENTATION- ~~~~~~penitentiary convicts pardoned dur- Q ntuto fM.Gohet ing the past ten years, submittedcomteonrvsoanadut of reslution, remaks of r. Dc-by...............................343 metireeectoscin6oar men inrefrene t reealof ule communication from Governor oftieorihofsfrg....72 in regrd to................895 State in reference to veto messages, rmrso,i eeec oadtoa to prsiden, on ehalfof paes ofsubmitted by..................16 pytsertreofcneto. -.18 66 ~~~~~~~~~~~convnin yM.Dmet..109 cmnunication from Governor of Vir- rmrso,i eeec oaed to presdent, n behaf of pges ofginia, submitted by......15 meto ue................ 1368 of onvntin, lecionof.......50 communication from Secretary ofcovnin..........4 of coventon, emars onelecion f 50 State in reference tdommte rearkdo,inrfrnetiona refernc of convenion, remaks of, ondec p l roos, submitted by......5 ofsbttts t...............3107 tion....................50 communication from Secretary of rmrso;o h noneeto pro ern corecton o jornalin ef-State in reference to dte,ec.,of m ithedeahoHo.HW.ilis. 4 erence t~~~~~~~~onominaubmtion of...........9 SceryoStt,sbitdb... 4166 rmrso,o aln po eon pro tern., ele~~~ctonf......150 cmmunication from Secretary of to fM.Cuc nrfrnet pro ten., rma~s f, in eferece toState in reference to extraemcosideratio ofreotfrmcm prayerin conention...........9 ployes, submitted by.........1076 miee.4 pro ern remrksof, u eectin 6 communication from Secretary of r'~rso,o oino r ayt pro trn. emars onelecton o..1to 6 State in reference to number of pen- lyo h al eouino r pro trn. rsoluton ofMr. Weatonitentiary convicts pardoned during Weltoprhs 20coiso of thanksto,..... -.....56 - the past ten years, sulimitted, by... 306 mnas communication from Superintendent of Public Instruction fu rnishing cer tain information, submitted by.... 1814 communication from treasurer of state board of education in refer ence to Superintendent of Public Instruction, submitted by......... 1649 communication from treasurer of in dustrial university in reference to Superintendent of Public Instruc tion, submitted by................ 1451 delivery of constitution to Assistant Secretary of State, by............. 1870, petition in reference to the evils of adulteration, submitted b y........ 305 presentation to, on behalf of pages of convention........................1029 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on legis tive department, as amended in committee of the whole.......... 917 928, 929, 930, 969 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on revis ion and adjustment, on schedule..1853: remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on sched ule, as amended in committee of the whole......................... 1826 remarks of, in debate on motion of Mr. Church to refer to committee on judiciary his resolution in refer ence to control of railroads in re spect to rates of transportation.... 150% ,remarks of, in debate on motion of Mr. Church to refer to committee of the whole his substitute to por tion of report from committees on canal and canal lands and on intern al improvements.................. 33 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on retrenchment and reform in reference to convention and assembly expenses since 1862.. 245 remarks of, in debate on resolution of Mr. Church, to adopt rule 49, in reference to effect of tabling amend ments.........................185, 18& remarks of, in debate on resolution of Mr. Turner in reference to con vention printing..................9 remarks of, in debate on resolution of Mr. Wells in reference to elec. tion of delegate to convention in place of Ron. Wm. H. Patterson deceased 8................ 199 remarks of, in debate on resolution of instruction of Mr. Goodhue to committee on revision and adjust. ment in reference to section 6 of ar ticle on right of suffrage.......... 1725 remarks of, in reference to additional pay to secretaries of convention...1868: remarks of, in reference to amend ment of rules.. 1368remarks of, in reference to order of business....I............. 308, 337, 1319 remarks of, in reference to recess of convention.... 894 remarks of, in reference to reference of substitutes, etc........................ 344 remarks of, on the announcement of the death of Hon. H. W. Billings..144 remarks of, on calling up of resolu tion of Mr. Church in reference to consideration of reports from com mittees............................. 74~ remarks of, on motion of Mr. Cary to lay on the table resolution of Mr. Wells to pulrchase 200 copies of manuals.................. 140 fA;*;*' *f** PRESIDENT of convention, election of........... *50 of convention, remarks on election of 50 of convention, remarks of, on elec tion............................... 50 'pro tem, correction of journal in ref erence to nomination o f........... 9 pro tem., election of.................1550 pro tem., remarks of, in reference to prayer in convention.............. 9 pro tem. remarks of, on election..... 6 pro tem. remarks on election of..1 to 6 _pro tem. resolution of Mr. Wheaton of thanks to.................. 56 ,is PRESIDENT-Coitinued. PRAYER-Continued. offered by Rev. Mr. Holden.......... 139 offered by Rev. Mr. Holton.......... 451 ,offered by Rev. F. W. Ingmire. - 177 479 894?'i-,77',1702, offer6d by Rev. Mr. Lombard. 194,873 912 1299:16-,l offered by Rev. J. K. McLean..... 74, 509 937,1731 offered by Rev. Mr. Miller... 261, 320, 389 531, 678, 964,11103, _-1256, 1338, 1439,1451 1550 offered by Rev. H. G. Perry......... 1075 offered by Rev. Mr. Phillips..128,279, 560 offered by Hon. Mr. Poage........... 166 offered by Rev. Mr. Predtice,.56,209, 588 offered by Rev. Mr. Reed............ 222 offered by Rev.,'Jr. Robertson....27, 343 11 1052,1814,1840,1870 offered by Rev. Mr. Scott........ 744,1152 offered by Rev. Mr. Springer.... 183, 424 offered by Rev. E. S. Walker....196', 613 702,1128 offered by Rev. Mr. Wardner.... 289, 726 offered by Rev. Mr. Wines..235,1416,1787 iii convention, remarks of president pro tem., in reference to........... 9 daily, in conve,]atioii, resolution of Mr. Sedgwick in reference to...... 56 resolution of Mr. Wai, to close con vention with...................... 1863 PREAMBLE debate on reports from committees on bill of rights and miscellaneous subjects, in reference to.231 to 235 264 to 276 petition in reference to.............. 479 reference of, to committee on revision and adjustment..'il.',, "ii' " 278 remarks on report Om o m tee on bill of rights, in reference to... 209 remarks on tl-.e subject of the refe'r ence of, to committee............. 183 report from committee on bill of rights, in reference to............. 209 report from committee on mi,-,cella neoiis subjects, on........ 190 report'from commit: revision and adjustment, on i'rticle on...... 1776 resolution of Mr. Bayne in reference to................................. 154 resolution and telegram in reference to location of national capital, of f'Ored by- Mr. Ellir... 75 resolution of instruction; of Mr. Good ell, to committee on bill of rights, in reference to.................... 262 rRiENTICE, REV..MR. prayer offered by..... 209, 588 PREPARATION OF ADDRESS TO THE PEOPLE OF THE STATE remarks on report from committee. on miscellaneous subjects in reference to............................ 1731,1732 report from committee on miscellane ous subjects, in reference to...... 1731 resolution of Mr. English in reference to.................................. 1677 PRESENT SYSTEM OF NUMBERING: BAL LOTS resolution of Mr. Cameron in refer.ence to.. 98 PRESENTATION of resolutions, remarks of Mr. De ment in. reference to repeal of rule in regard to........................ 895 to president, on behalf of pages of convention, by Mr. Dement....... 1029 to president, on'behalf of pages of convention, remarks of President onlO29 v.......................... 79- PRINTING AND BINDING communication from Auditor of State on cost of.........................128 convention debates, debate on report from committee on printing and binding, in reference to........... 101 l o 113, 118, 125 convention debates, report from com mittee on printing and binding, in reference to..................... 101,118 PRESIDENT-Continued, j remarks of, on motion of Mr. -Wag ner for previous question.......... 1540 remarks of, on presentation to, in be half of pages of convention....... 1029 remarks of, on report from committee on printing and binding, in refer ence to printing and binding con vention debates........... 111, 112, 113 remarks of, on resolution of Mr. Allen, of Crawford, authorizing committee on legislative depart ment to employ clerk.............. 115 remarks of, on resolution of Mr. McCoy in reference to time of con sideration of report from commit' tee on miscellaneous corporations. 346 remarks of, on resolutions of instruc tion of Mr. Moore to Auditor of State and treasurers of state nor mal school and industrial univer sity, in reference to Superintend ent of Public Instruction........ 1391 resolutions in reference to the regula tion and development of state rail roads and canals, submitted by....1476 resolution of Mr. Skinner, of thanks to................................. 1845 telegram of thanks, from Governor of Virginia, submitted by......... 1550 PRINTING AND BINDING, COMMITTEE ON — appointment of....................... 75 debate on report from, in reference to constitution and address, etc..1846 to 1848 debate on report from, in reference to correction of speeches.........tb.... 168 debate on report from, in reference to furnishing manuals to convention. 145 146 PRINTING AND BINDING, COMMITTEE ON-tC ontinu ed. resolution of Mr. King, in reference to publication o f constitution and addre ss, referred to............... 1845 resolution of Mr. Hay, in reference to publication and distribution of pro ceedings of convention, referred to 65 resolution of Mr. Hay to adopt report from............................. 124 resolution of Mr. Sedgwick, in refer ence to the publication of laws in county newspapers, referred to.... 212 resolution of Mr. Vandeventer, in reference to binding journal of con vention, referred to............... 176 resolution of Mr. Wells, in reference to the employment of clerks by.... 533 resolution of Mr. Wells, in reference to printing debates, referred to.... 987 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Cary, in reference to manuals...... 137 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Cummings, in reference to cost of convention printing............... 532 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Haines, of Lake, in reference to furnishing state maps to conven tion.............................. 192 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Rice, in reference to the establish ment of a state printing office..... 745 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Wall, in reference to cost of print ing new constitution.............. 704 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Wendling, in reference to printing debates in German................ 213 debate on report from, in reference to furnishing newspapers to conven tion......................... 129 to 134 debate on report from, in reference to printing and binding convention debates.......... 101 to 113, 118 to 125 debate on report from, in reference to printing journal, laws, etc.245 to 256 memorial in reference to the publica tion of laws, etc., referred to...... 281 petition in reference to state report er, referred to..................... 389 remarks on report from, in reference to index to debates, etc............1865 remarks on report from, in reference to printing constitution and ad dress, etc.......................... 1790 remarks on report from, in reference to publication of constitution..... 1704 to 1706 report from, in reference to compen sation of official stenograhers to convention, submitted by Mr. Me dill............................... 293 report from, in reference to constitu tion and address, etc., submitted by Mr. Ca meron................1.... 1846 report from, in reference to c orrection o f speeches, submitted by Mr. Me dill................................ 167 report from, in reference to cost of convention printing, submitted by Mr. Turner........................ 54 report from, in reference to furnishing manuals to convention, submitted by Mr. Medill................ 145 report from, in reference to furnishing newspapers to members of conven tion, submitted by Mr. Turner.... 129 report from, in reference to furnishing state maps to convention, submit - ted by Mr. Turner................. 280 report from, in reference to index t o debates, etc., submitte d by Mr. Tur ner................................ 1865 report from, in reference to printing constitution and address, etc., sub mitted by Mr. Cameron.......11 R O RS..... 1790 report from, in reference to printing and binding convention debates, submitted by Mr. Cameron........ 101 report from, in reference to printing and binding convention debates, submitted by Mr. Medill................... 118 report from, in reference to printing ournal, laws, etc., submitted by Mr. Turner......................... 245 report from, in reference to publica tion of constitution, submitted by Mr. Turner........................ 1704 report from, in reference to settle ment of printing and reporting ac counts, submitted by Mr. Turner..1860 report from, in reference to transcrip tion of journal of convention, sub mitted by Mr. Medill............. 1865 report from committee on accounts and expenditures of convention, in reference to settlement of printing and reporting accounts, referred to............................... 1860 resolution of Mr. Anthony in refer ence to convention journal, referred to p for.......6..1845 resolution of Mr. Cross in reference to furnishing state maps to conven tion, referred to................... 263 resolution of Mr. King, in reference to proposals for convention print ing, referred to.............,.... 67 PRESUMPTIONS OF LAW OR FACT in state or corporation proceedings, resolution of instruction of. Mr. King to committee on judiciary, in reference to....................... 212 PREVENTION OF BRIBERY in connection with public affairs, resolution of instruction of Mr. Whiting to judiciary committee, in reference to....................... 93 PRINTING CONSTITUTION AND AD DRESS remarks in reference to...... 1842 to 1845 remarks on report from committee on printing and binding, in refer ence to............................ 1790 report from committee on printing and binding, in reference to....... 1790 PREVIOUS QUESTION remarks on motion of Mr. Wagner for...............................1540 PRINTED MATTER- etc., of convention, appointment of committee to measure........ 1860,1865 of convention, resolution of Mr. Tin cher in reference to custody and distribution of..................... 389 PRINTING AND REPORTING AC COUNTS report from committee on accounts and expenditures of convention in reference to settlement of, submit ted by Mr. Moore................. 1860 report from committee on printing and binding in reference to settle ment of, submitted by Mr. Turner.1860 PRINTING debates, debate on the subject of...89, 90 debates, resolution of Mr. Hanna in reference to........................ 90 o debates, resolution of Mr. H ay in referenc e to.......................2 a n 90o d eba tes in Ge rman, resolution of in struction of Mr. Wendling, to committee on printing and bind ing, in reference to..............4.. 213 journal, laws, etc., debate on report from committee on printing and binding, in reference to.......... 245 249, 252, 256 journal, laws, etc., report from com mittee on printing and binding in reference to...................... 245 petitions, etc., remarks on the sub ject of...................... $06 resolutions, resolution o f Mr. Wash burn in reference to.............. $8 state, etc., resolution of inquiry of Mr. Hanna to Secretary of State in reference to....................... 67 veto messages, resolution of Mr. Al len, of Crawford, in reference to.. 151 of convention, report from commit tee on printing and binding, in ref erence to cost of.................. 654 of convention, resolution of Mr. King in reference to proposals for....... 67 of convention, resolution of Mr. Tur ner, in reference to................ 94 of convention, resolution of instrnc tion of Mr. Cummings to commit tee on printing and binding, in reference to cost of.............. 532 I-21 i I INDEX. 79 PRINTING OFFICE state, resolution of instruction of Mr. . Rice, to committee on printing and binding, in reference to establish ment of........................... 745 PRINTED COPIES of reports of standing'committees, resolution of Mr. Whaton in refer Olice to delivery of................ 194 RRISONS article in reference to management of..............................L... 153 resolution of.'Ar. Wagner in reference to the management of............ 321 RISONERS'COUNSEL resolution of instruction of Mr. Vandeventer, to committee on bill of righ s, in reference to right of, in criminal trials.................. 321 PRIVATE CORPORATIONS article in reference to municipal sub scriptions to capital stock of....... 1104 debate on article in reference to mu. nicipal subscriptions to capital stock of................ 11:111234, 1242 article in reference to municipal sub scription to capital stock of, debate on, in convention, as amended in committee of the whole........... 1730 article in reference to municipal sub scription to capital stock of, refer red to committee on schedule..... 1730 resolution of Mr. Scholfield in refer ence to rights of.................. 67 resolution of Mr. Scholfield in refer ence to rights of, called up and re ferred to committee on judiciary.. 88 PRIVATE PROPERTY resolution of Mr. Eldredge in refer ence to appropriations-of, for pub lic use......................... O.. 93 so- JD X.............. PROPERTY- - resolution of Mr. Wall in reference to sale of, for debt................... 615 exempted from execution, resolution of instruction of Mr. Springer to committee on legislative depart meut, in reference to.............. 180 of married women, resolution of in struction of Mr. Archer to commit tee on legislative department in ref erence to.......................... 177 movable, of railroads, resolution of Mr. King in reference to........... 172 movable, of railroads, resolution of Mr. King in reference to, reported back from committee on miscella neous corporations and referred to committee - on railroad corpora tions.............................. l10 :PROTEST- s in relation to the division of coun. I ties, submitted by Mr. Hart....... 280 in relation to female suffrage, submit ted by Mr. Beniamin.............1528 in relation to female suffrage, submit ted by Mr. Wells........ 1277,1528,1551 PROPORTIONATE representation, petition from Nation al Union of Bricklayers of North America in reference to............ 235 taxation, resolution of Mr. Wagner in reference to.......................nrrtm 194 PROTESTS REFERRED protest in relation to the division of counties, referred to committee on counties......................... 280 protests in relation to female suffrage, referred to committee on right of - suffrage................. 1277,1528,1551 PROPOSALS FOR CONVENTION PRINT!ING resolution of Mr. King in reference to................................. o67 PRIVATE ROADS - majority report from committee on roads and internal navigation, in reference to....................... 257 minority report from committee on roads and internal navigation, in reference to....................... 257 remarks of Mr. Chnrch on amend ment of Mr. Fox to minority report from committee on roads and in ternal navigation, in reference to.. 258 and drainage laws, resolution of in struction of Mr. Atkins to commit tee on bill of rights, in reference to............................... 74 resolution of instruction of Mr. Wall to committee on roads and internal navigation, in reference to........ 135 PROPOSED AMENDMENTS to constitution, relative to Cook county judiciary, offered by Mr. Anthony.......................... 96 to constitution, relating to fees, etc., offered by Mr. Anthony.......... 97 to constitution in reference to the consideration of railroads as public highways, offered by Mr. Church..1320 to constitution, resolution of Mr. Cameron to rescind resolution to print.............................. 116 to judiciary article, offered by Mr. Wells.............................1130 PRIVATE WAYS communication'in reference to...... 117 PUBLIC ACCOUNTS AND EXPENDI TURES, COMMITTEE ON appointment of.....................75 article in reference to future appro priations for state house, referred to................................ 1320 remarks on report from, in reference to future appropriations for state house............... 1621,1622,1772,1773 report from, in reference to future appropriations for state house, sub mitted by Mr. Church.............1621 report from, in reference to future appropriations for state house, re ferred to committee on revision and adjustment....................... 1774 resolution of Mr. Wright, in reference to official fees, referred to.......... 367 PRIVILEGES of citizens in regard to food, resolu tion of instruction of Mr. Atkins to committee on bill of rights, in ref erence to.......................... 260 of members of convention, ordinance relating to........................ 56 PROPOSED CHANGES IN JUDICIARY SYSTEM.petition in reference to.......320 PROPOSED SYSTEM OF COOK COUNTY JUDIC IARY remonstrance in reference to........ 1012 PRIVILEGED QUESTION remarks of Mr. Allen, of Crawford,. on................................ 167 remarks of Mr. Anthony on...6...... 34 4 remarks of Mr. Archer on......188, 1862 remarks of Mr. Bayne on........589, 737 remarks of Mr. Bromwell on...1178,1226 remarks of Mr. Camneron on......... 178, 188 1321 remarks of Mr. Cary on............. 1165 remarks of Mr. Church on... 167, 479, 480 remarks of Mr. Cody on............. 628 629, 1323, 1502 remarks of Mr. Dement on.... 1052, 1053 remarks of Mr. Fox on.............. 1226 remarks of Mr. Goodhue on.....851, 1,528 remarks of Mr. Haines, of Lake, on.. 320 1144 remarks of Mr. Hayes on............ 678 remarks of Mr. McCoy on......'189, 1152 remarks of Mr. Merriam on......... 392 remar ks of Mr. Moore on........... 1389 remarks of Mr. Parks o n............ 480 remarks of Mr. Perley on...........1180 remarks of Mr. Rice on.............. 589 remarks of Mr. Ross on........1155, 1156 remarks of Mr. Sedgwick on...1527, 1528 remarks of Mr. Sherrill on 704 remarks of Mr. Tincher on.1.527 remarks of Mr. Turner on. 117 189, 1039, 1128,1527, 1841 remarks of Mr. Underwood on.....1V02 remarks of Mr. Vandeventer on..... 76 remarks of Mr. Wagner on.......... 1062 remarks of Mr. Wait on......... 424,1211 remarks of Mr. Wall on.......... 178, 58S remarks of Mr. Washburn on.... 7V3, 1814 remarks of Mr. Wells on............ 1178 PUBLIC ADMINISTRATOR resolution of Mr. Snyder in reference to election of..................... 1032 PROPOSITION in reference to adoption of constitu tion, submitted by Mr. Bromwell..1833 in reference to female suffrage, sub- rf mitted by Mr. Hlaines, of Lake.....- 7 1730 in reference to municipal subscrip tions, submitted by Mr. Allen, of Alex'ander.......................... 1845 in reference to railroad and municipal indebtedness of Quincy, Ill., sub mitted by Mr. Browning...........cio 1761 in reference to the removal of county seats, submitted by Mr. Cross srpinon..... 1707 in reference to adoption of constitu tion, remarks of Mr. Bromwell on.1833 in reference to municipal subscrip tions, remarks on....... 1845, 1848, 1849 in reference to railroad and municipal indebtedness of Quincy, Ill., re marks on.....1761 to 1763, 1866 to 1868 PUBLIC CHARITIES resolution of instruction of Mr. Peirce to committee on state institutions and public buildings, in reference to appointment of board of........ 84 PROPOSITIONS REFERRED proposition in reference to adoption of constitution, referred to commit tee on revision and adjustment.... 1833 proposition in reference to railroad and municipal indebtedness of Quincy, Illinois, referred to com- 5 mittee on revision and adjustment.1763 proposition in reference to removal of county seats, referred to'committee on schedule........................ 1723 PUBLIC HIGHWAYS proposed amendment to constitution in reference to consideration of railroads as.............1320 resolution of Mr. Eldredge in reference to................................... 176 resolution of Mr. Eldredge in refer ence to, reported back from com mittee on roads and internal navi gation............................. 257 PROSECUTING ATTORNEYS-r resolution of instruction of Mr. Cross to committee on judiciary in reference to....................... 211 PRODUCTS OF PENITENTIARY LABOR communication in reference to the sale of....I....................... 451 PROTECTION — PUBLIC INSTITUTIONS of laborers, etc., communication in resolution of Mr. Bryan in reference I reffer trence to........................ 30 -to support of by the state.........260 80 INDEX. PRIVATE PROPERTY-Continued. appropriated for public use, resolu tion of Mr. Haines, of Lake, in ref erence to.......................... 155 appropriated for public use, resolu tion of Mr. Hankins in reference to compensation for.................. 192 appropriated for public use, resolu tion of Mr. Hankins in reference to compensation for, reported back from committee on roads and in ternal navigation.................. 257 resolution of Mr. Sedgwick in refer.ence to appropriation of........... 429 resolution of Mr. Wheaton in refer ence to appropriation of, for public use.............................. 88 PROTECTION-Continued. O-L' the lives of miners, debate on re. port from committee on mines and mineral interests, in reference to... 264 to 276 of the lives of miners, report from committee. Ines and mineral Interests in reference to........... 210 In public worshi'p, resolution of Mr. Underwood in reference to........ 139 PROTESTS remarks in reference to... 1528,1529,1551. PUBLIC ACCOUNTS Auditor of, resolution of inquiry to, of Mr. Wall, in reference to state penitentiary...................... 178 PUBT,IC AFFAIRS resolution of inriruction of Mr. Whi ting to judiciary committee, in ref erence to prevention of bribery in connection with.................. 93 PUBLIC BUILDINGS. petition in reference to masonle in, scriptions on............. 210, 320, 365 petition in reference to masonic in scriptions on, reported back from committee on miscellaneous sub jectr.......................... 257, &% PUBLIC CORPORATIONS resolution of Mr. Whiting in refer ence to considering railroads as.... 146 PROCEEDINGS OF CONVENTIONI resolution of Mr. Buxton in reference I to publication and distribution of.. ' Kqsolution of Mr. Hay in reference to i. publication and distribution of.... 62 64 PROHIBITORY LIQUOR LAWSI.. petition in reference.to............ 1621 i JNDI~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~X. 81~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ PUBLICATION-Continued. and distribution of proceedings of convention, resolution of Mr. Bux ton in reference to................ 62 and distribution of proceedings of convention, resolution of Mr. Hay in reference to..................... 64 of school books, etc., by school offi cers, resolution of Mr. Rice prohib iting..............................1193 RAILROADS arti cle in reference to eminent do main in regard to.................. 262 etc., communication from Auditor of Public Accounts in reference to....1526 and canals, co mmu nication in refer ence to state ai d to................1476 petition in reference to............... 627 pr oposed amendment to co nstitution in reference to consideration of, as public highways..................1320 etc., remarks on communication from Auditor of Public Accounts, in ref erence to.................... 1526, 1527 resolution of Mr. English instructing secretary of convention to deliver to committee on finance, certain let ters received from county clerks in reference to..................... 260 street, resolution of Mr. Anthony in reference to....................... 154 street, resolution of Mr. Eldredge in reference to....................... 151 resolution of Mr. Hart in reference to capital stock of................. 321 resolution of Mr. King in reference to movable property of............ 172 resolution of Mr. King, in reference to movable property of, reported back from committee on miscella neous corporations, and referred to committee on railroads............ 210 resolution of Mr. Wells in reference to state indebtedness for.......... 72 resolution of,Mr. Whiting in refer ence to considering as public corpo rations........................... 146 resolution of inquiry of Mr. Anthony to Auditor of State, in reference to................................ 912 resolution of inquiry of M r. English to county clerks, in reference to... 182 resolution of instruction of Mr. Brom.well to committee on judiciary, in reference to eminent domain in re gard to........................... 487 and other corporations, resolution of instruction of Mr. Bromwell to committee on legislature, in refer ence to imposition by............. 84 resolution of instruction of Mr. Church to committee on judiciary, in reference to control of, in respect to rates of transportation......... 148 etc., resolution of instruction of Mr. Haines, of Lake, to committee on judiciary, in reference to consider iDg as common carriers............ 148 PUNISHMENT corporal, in schools, resolution of Mr. Snyder in reference to.............1078 for dueling, resolution of Mr. Spring er to amend constitution in refer ence to............................1502 for murder, resolution of instruction of Mr. Vandeventer to committee on legislative department in refer enceto............................ 282 QUESTION OF PRIVILEGE remarks of Mr. Allen, of Crawford, on................................ 167 remarks of Mr. Anthony on.......... 344 remarks of Mr. Archer on.......118, 1862 remarks of Mr Bayne on.........589, 737 remarks of Mr. Bromwell on...1178, 1226 remarks of Mr. Cameron on......... 178 188, 1321 remarks of Mr. Cary on.............. 1165 remarks of Mr. Church on....167, 479, 480 remarks of Mr. Cody on............... 628 er- inebedest629, 1323, 1502 remarks of Mr. Dement on..... 1052, 1053 remarks of Mr. Fox on.............. 1226 remarks of Mr. Goodhue on.... 851, 1528 remarks of Mr. Haines, of Lake on.. 320 1144 remarks of Mr. Hayes on........... B678 remarks of Mr. McCoy on.......189, 1152 remarks of Mr. Merriam on......... 392 remarks of Mr. Moore on............1389 remarks of Mr. Parks on............ 480 remarks of Mr. Perley on............1180 remarks of Mr. Rice on.............. 589 remarks of Mr. Ross on........1155, 1156 remarks of Mr. Sedgwick on...1527, 1528 remarks of Mr. Sherrill on.......... 704 remarks of Mr. Tincher on..........1527 remarks of Mr. Turner on........... 117 ence; tcoest189, 1039, 1128, 1527, 1841 remarks of Mr. Underwood on.......1702 remarks of Mr. Vandeventer on...... 76 remarks of Mr. Wagner on..........1062 remarks of Mr. Wait on......... 424,1211 remarks of Mr. Wall on..........178, 588 remarks of Mr. Washburn on..1703, 1814 remarks of Mr. Wells on............. 1178 RAILROAD CORPORATIONS in this state, resolution of Mr. An thony in reference to location of office s of.............................. 148 resolution of Mr. Bryan in reference to considering as individuals...... 150 resolution of Mr. Truesdale in refer ence to the issuing of stock by... 213 resolution of instruction of Mr. Church to committee on revision and adjustment, in reference to arti cle on............................. 723 resolution of instruction of Mr. Church to committee on revision -, and adjustment, in reference to arti cle on, called up and amended....,1731 PUBLIC WORSHIP- resolution of Mr. Underwood, in ref erence to protection in............ 189 QUINCY, ILLINOIS proposition in reference to railroad and municipal indebtedness of..... 1761 remarks on proposition in reference to railroad and municipal indebted ness of........1761 to 1763, 1866 to 1868 resolution of instruction of Mr. Peirce to committee on revision and adjustment, in reference to propo sition in regard to railroad and mu nicipal indebtedness of............1814 RAILROAD CORPORATIONS, COMMIT TEE ON — appointment of...................... 75 communication in reference to the condemnation of land for railroad purposes, referred to............... 389 debate on report from........ 1637 to 1664 debate in convention o n report from, as amended in committee of the whole..................... 1708 to 1723 petition in reference to location of - railroad offices, referred to........ 344 365, 451, 510, 589 petition in reference to railroads, re ferred to.......................... 627 report from, submitted by Mr. Bux ton................................ 480 report from, referred to committee on revision and adjustment........ 1722 resolution of Mr. Anthony, in refer ence to location of offices of rail road'corporations in this State, re- - ferred to..........................0 resolution of Mr. Bryan, in reference to considering rail road corporations as individuals, referred to.... A.... X 150 QUORUM-a roll call of convention to ascertain the presence of..................... 1233 QUORUMS — resolution of instruction of Mr. Bromwell to committee on legisla ture, in reference to............... 172 PUBLICATION of constitution, remarks on report from committee on printing and binding in reference to....,. 1704 to 170~ constitution and address, remarks in reference to...................... 1732 of constitution, report from commit mittee on printing and binding, in reference to, submitted by Mr. Turner............................17 04 of constitution and address, resolu tion of Mr. King in reference to...1845 further, of debates, resolution of in struction of Mr. Anderson to com mittee on accounts and expendi tures of convention, in reference to.1190 of journal of convention, resolution of instruction of Mr. Turner to Secretary of State, in reference to.. 213 of laws, etc., communication in refer ence to.-......... -...... 289 of laws, and law of libel, etc., me morial in reference to............... 281 of laws, in county newspapers, reso lution of Mr. Sedgwick in reference to............................... 212 of laws, resolution of instruction of Mr. Archer to committee on legis lature in reference t o.............. 88 of legislative expenses, resolution of Mr. Poage in reference to.......... 260 of local and general laws, resolution of Mr. Haines, of Lake, in reference to............................** v1v- * 16 RAILROAD — consolidation, resolution of Mr. Haines, of Cook, prohibiting...... 212; crossings, etc, communication in ref erence to.......................... 141 fares, resolution of instruction of Mr. Eldredge to judiciary committee in reference to....................... 84 offices, petition in reference to loca tion of......9.., 344, 365, 451, 510, 589 passes of state officers, article in ref erence to..................... rs..... o 965 purposes, communication in reference to the condemnation of land for... 889 ,INDEX. 'S I PUBLIC INSTRUCTION communication from Auditor of State in reference to Auditor's warrants issued in favor of Superintendent of................................. 1759 communication from Superintendent - of, furnishing certain information.1814 PUBLIC LIBRARIES communication in reference to the establishment of................... 451 PUBLIC OFFICERS resolution of Mr. Anthony in refer — ence to salaries of............ 67 resolution of Mr. Haines, of Lae',':in' reference to salaries of............. 100 resolution of Mr. Scholfield to amend constitution in reference to extra compensation of.................. 154 guilty of embezzlement and defalca tion,resolution of Mr. Va-ndeven ter in reference to ineligibility to future office of..................... 116 resolution of instruction of Mr. Hay to committee on miscellaneous subjects in reference to bribery on the part of........................ 18D, resolution of instruction of Mr. Hay in reference to bribery on the part of, reported back from committee on miscellzlxieous subjects.......... 857 PUBLIC SCHOOLS communication from the Auditor of State, in reference to,State and oth er indebtedness to................. 155 'PUBLIC SCHOOL FUND resolution of instruction of Mr. Haines, of Lake, to committee on education, in reference to.......... 281 PTJBLIC USE resolution of Mr. EldredLe in refqr ence to appropriation 6f, private property for...... 93 ...... i'ake, in resolution of Mr. Haines, reference to appropriation of pri'Volte property for................ 155 resolution of Mr. Hankins in refer ence to compensation for private property appropriated for......... 192 resolution of Mr. Hankins in refer ence to compensation for private property appropriated for, reported back from committee on roads and internal navigation................ 257 resolution of NIr. Wheaton in refer ence to appropriation of private property for...................... 88 82 INDIX. RECESS OF CONVENTION-Continued. resolution of Mr. Bromwell in refer ence to cleaning hall during.......1210 resolution of Mr. English in reference to................................ 726 resolution of Mr. English in reference to, called up.................. 826 resolution of Mr. English in reference 5 to per diem during................1860 resolution of Mr. Haines, of Lake, in reference to............................. 866 resolution of Mr. Haines, of Lake, in reference toper diem of members of convention during................13 345 resolution of Mr. Robinson in refer ence to employment of postmaster during................................. 1208 resolution of Mr. Skinner in reference to employment of secretaries dur ing................................ 1190 resolution of Mr. Springer in refer ence to............................ 860 resolution of Mr. Turner in reference to care of hall during......1190 resolution of Mr. Washburn in refer enceto............................ 1077 resolution of Mr. Wells in reference to................................ 859 RA ILROAD, ILLINOIS CENTRAL resolution of instruction of Mr. Church to judiciary committee, in reference to............... 79 resolution of instruction of Mr. Un derwood to committee on railroad corporations, in reference t o....... 78 in reference to additional pay o f sec retaries of con vention........r 18 65, 186 in reference to adjournment......... 12 in reference to adjournment, sine die, of convention..................... 1859 in reference to the adoption of rule 50, l imiting sp eeches.............. 509 in reference to the amendment of rules........................1368, 1369 in reference to the appointment of pages of convention............... 54 in reference to article on canal and canal lands................ 1832 to 1834 in reference to consideration of re port from c omm ittee on ca nal and canal lands, in regard to certain modifications of article on canals..1745 in reference to construction of five minute rule..................1625, 162( in reference to convention postage...1231 in reference to the effect of motion to adjourn...................... 1548, 1549 in reference to election of supreme court judges................. 1799, 1800 in reference to holding evening ses sions of convention............ 374, 375 in reference to order of business..... 223 231, 263, 264, 308 to 310, 336, 337, 744 832, 833, 854, 855, 858, 859, 883, 1061 1198, 1199, 1211, 1260, 1307, 1319, 1557 1558, 1649, 1650, 1726 in reference to postponement of spe cial order.......................... 1477 in reference to printing address and constitution................ 1842 to 1845 in reference to printing of debates...1030 1031 in reference to protests....1528,1529,1551 in reference to publication of consti tution and address................ 1732 in reference to recess of convention.. 736 737, 798, 799 in reference to reconsideration of sec tion 6 of article on revenue........ 1677 in reference to record of petitions and communications................... 344 in reference to reference of substi tutes, etc......................... 344 in reference to report from committee on municipal corporations......... 1677 in reference to report from committee on revision and adjustment...1688, 1689 in reference to report from commit tee on revision and adjustment, in reference to section 1 of report from committee on right of suf frage, as amended in committee of the whole................... 1529,1530 of Mr. Allen, of Crawford, in refer ence to amendment of rule 44..... 190 of Mr. Allen, of Crawford, on ques tion of privileges................... 167 of Mr. Allen, of Crawford, on submis sion of amended report from com mittee on legislative department.. 392 of Mr. Anthony in reference to furn ishing copies of State constitution 9 of Mr. Anthony, on amendment in ref erence to fees, etc................ 97 of Mr. Anthony, on introduction of statistics of litigation in Cook county for the year 1869............... 97 of Mr. Anthony, on question of priv il eg c............... 844 of Mr. Anthony, on resolution in ref ence to election of delegate to con vention in place of Hon. W. H. Pat terson, deceased........208, 209 of Mr. Anthony, on submission of re mostrance in reference to proposed system of Cook couty judiciary.... 1012 of Mr. Archer,'.on question of privi lege................;..188, 1862 of Mr. Archer, on resolution of in -quiry to warden of penitentiary in reference to convicts pardoned du ring the past ten years................... 154 of Mr. Atkins, on resolution in ref erence to granting leave of absence 859 of Mr. Bayne, on question of privi lege..................fi..89, 737 of Mr. Benjamin, on resolution in ref erence to majority and minority representation...........175 of Mr. Bromwell, on proposition in reference to adoption of constitu tion...............................1833 of Mr. Bromwell, on question of privilege............. 1226, 1178 of Mr. Browning, on submission of majority report from committee on municipal corporations., m......... 890 RECONSIDERATION of section 6 of ar ticle on revenue, re-ene e marks in reference to.............. 1677 RECORD of petitions and communications, re marks in reference to...........3 Ie ntr nfb... 344 RECORDER and circuit clerk, resolution of in struction of Mr. Neece to commit tee on counties, in reference to.... RECORDERS communication in reference to action f circuit clerks as, in certain cases 289 resolution of Mr. Sharp, authorizing clerks of circuit courts to act as, in certain cases......................I 213 REDEMPTION and sale of land, resolution of Mr. Haines, of Lake, in reference to.... 192 RAILROAD AND WAREHOUSE FRAUDS petition in reference to.............. 560 590, 627, 654, 679, 702, 757 resolution of instruction of Mr. Van deventer to committee on miscella neous subjects, in reference to..... 532 REED, REV. MR. prayer offered by.................... 222 REFERENCE of amendments, etc., to constitution, to committees, resolution of Mr. Eldredge in regard to..........173, 176 of constitution to appropriate com mittees, resolution of Mr. Allen, of Crawford, in reference to io.......... 81 of preamble to committeeiremarks on the subject of............. IAh i....... 183 of substitutes, etc., remarks in refer en ce to............................ 344 RATIFICATION of amendments to constitution, reso lution of Mr. Wa ll in re ference to. 55 of amendments to constitution, reso lution of Mr. Wells in reference to. 56 of amedments to federal constitu tion, resolution of Mr. Wendling in reference to......................... 161 of amendments to state and national constitutions, resolution of Mr. Turner in reference to............. 262 of 15th amendment, resolution of in struction of Mr. Haines, of Lake, to committee on federal relations, in reference to....................... 165 REGISTRATION communication from Auditor of State in reference to the cost of, for the years 1868-69...................... 280 resolution of inquiry of Mr. Rice to Auditor of State in reference to cost of, for the years 1868 and 1869....... 261 REGULATION- and development of State railroads and canals, resolution submitted by the President in reference to.......1476t RELEASE of Illinois Central railroad company from c ertain obligations, resolution of Mr. Haines, of La ke, in reference to................................ of Illinois Central railroad company from certain obligations, resolution of Mr. Washburn in reference to... RATIO OF REPRESENTATION resolution of Mr. Peirce in reference to................................. READING of enrolled constitution by 8ecretaryl869 REAL ESTATE resolution of Mr. Parker in reference to abatement of taxes on.......... 726 RELIGIOUS BELIEF resolution of Mr. Wall to amend con stitution in reference to the non disqualification of witnesses on ac count of.......................... 17] RECESS OF CONVENTION debate on the subject of....... 866 to $73 remarks in reference to.............. 736 737, 798, 799 remarks of President in referaace to.. 894 RELIGIOUS LIBERTY-o resolution of Mr. Perley in reference to................................. 179 INDEX. 82 RAILROAD CORPORATIONS, COMMIT TEE ON-Continued. resolution of Mr. Hainesof Cook, prohibiting railroad consolidation, referred to........................ 212 resolution of Mr. Hart in reference to capital stock of railroads, referred to................................. 321 resolution of Mr. King in reference to the movable property of rail roads, etc., referred to............ 172 resolution of Mr. Scholfield. in refer ence to rights of private cori)ora tions, referred to.......... 67 reso " i'i. lution of instruction to, Atkins to amend constitution in reference to obligations of Illinois Central railroad................... 176 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Underwood in reference to Illinois Central railroad...,............... 78 REMARKS RAILROAD AND MUNICIPAL INDEBT. EDNESS OF QUINCY, ILLINOIS proposition in reference to........... 1761 remarks on proposition in reference to............ 1761 to 1763, 1866 to 1868 resolution of instruction of Mr. Peirce to committee on revision and adjustment, in reference to proposition in regard to........... 1814 84 RAILROAD TARIFF in certain cases, communication In reference to....................... 679 resolution of Mr. Wells in reference to.................................. 1477 resolution of instruction of Mr. Cum mlings to judiciary committee in reference to....................... 192 RATES OF TRANSPORTATION resolution of instruction of Mr. Church to committee on judiciary, Iin reference to control of railroads in respect to...................... 148 91 84 72 RECEPTION of General Sheridan by convention..1423 INDEX. 83 REMARKS-Continued. REMARKS-COntinued REMARKS-Conttnued. REMARKS —Continued. of Mr. Rice, on question of privi lege............................... 589 of Mr. Ross, on question of privilege.1155 1156 of Mr. Sedgwick, on question ofpriv ilege..................12.....7, 1528 of Mr. Sherrill, on question of privi lege............................... 704 of Mr. Snyder, on motion of Mr. Al len, of Crawford, to discharge com mittee on legislative department from further consideration of reso lution of Mr. Snyder, in reference to legislative assembly...... 141 to ]145 of Mr. Tincher, on complimentary resolution in reference to the por traits of Abraham Lincoln and Stephen A. Douglas............... 178 of Mr. Tincher, on question of privi lege................17...............1527 of Mr. Turner, in reference to admin istration of oath of office.......... 45 of Mr. Turner, on calling up resolu tion of Mr. Washburn in reference to morning sessions of conven tion............................... 852 of Mr. Turner, on question of privi lege......117, 189, 1039, 1128, 1527, 1841 of Mr. Turner, on resolution in refer ence to granting leave of absence. 832 of Mr. Turner, on submission of re port from committee on printing and binding, in reference to cost of convention printing............... 654 of Mr. Underwood, in reference to re port from committee on miscella neous subjects on the subject of the observance of the Sabbath..... 798 of Mr. Underwood, on question of privilege.......................... 1702 of Mr. Underwood, on submission of petition in reference to the ac knowledgement of the power of the Almighty.................... 1319 of Mr. Vandeventer, on question of privilege.......................... 76 of Mr. Vandeventer, on resolution in reference to adjournment, sine die,,fe of convention..................... 1861 of Mr. Vandeventer, on resolution in reference to form of committee re ports.............................. 146 of Mr. Wagner, on question of privi lege........................ 1062....... 1062 of Mr. Wait, on question of privilege 424 1211 of Mr. Wall, on question of privi lege......................... 178, 588 of Mr. Washburn, on question of privilege..................... 1703,1814 of Mr. Washburn, on resolution in reference to separate schools for white and colored children........ 679 of Mr. Wells, on question of privi lege...............................1178 of Mr. Wendling, on resolution to attend charity ball................ 182 of Mr. Whiting, on submission of pe tition in reference to railroad and warehouse frauds................. 627 of president pro tern., in reference to prayer in convention.............. 9 of president pro tern., on election.... 6 of president, in debate in convention on report from committee on legis lative department, as amended in committee of the whole...917, 928, 929 939, 969 REMARKS-Cont4inued. on article in reference to future ap propriations for state house.......1320 on article on distribution of the pow ers of the state government....... 279 on article on judiciary department.. 179 on calling up resolution of' Mr. Church in reference to consideration of re ports of committees............... 745 on calling up resolution of Mr. Wash burn in reference to separate schools for white and colored children..... 703 on calling up resolution of Mr. Wend ling on the subject of Washington's birth-day.................793, 794, 795 on communication from Auditor of Public Accounts in reference to railroads, etc................ 1526, 1527 on communication from Auditor of State in reference to his services and fees........................ 196, 197 on communication from Secretary of State in reference to stationery fur nished to convention......1 _$16 to 1819 on communication from State Agri cultural Society in reference to the establishment of a State Bureau of Statistics......................128, 129 on election of president pro tern....1 to 6 on election of president of conven tion............................... 50 on motion to print report from committee on state, county and municipal indebtedness........ 189, 190 on motion for previous question..... 1540 on proposition in reference to munic ipal subscriptions...... 1845, 1848, 1849 on proposition in reference to rail road and municipal indebtedness of Quincy, Ill....1761 to 1763,1866 to 1868 on question of privilege............. 479 480, 1128, 1129 on report from committe e on ac counts and expenditures of conven tion in reference to expenses of convention................ 1787 to 1789 on report from committee on bill of rights in reference to preamble.... 209 on report from committee on judicia ry in reference to eminent domain. 704 on report from committee on miscel laneous subjects in reference to preparation of address to the peo ple of the state.............. 1731, 1732 on report from committee on printing and binding in reference to furnish ing manual to convention...... 145,146 on report from committee on print ing and binding in reference to in dex to debates, etc.........1865 on report from committee on print i-ng and binding in reference to printing constitution and address, etc................................ 1790 on report from committee on print ing and binding in reference to pub lication of constitution...... 1704, 1706 on report from committee on public accounts and expenditures in ref erence to future appropriations for state house........ 1621, 1622, 1772, 1773 on report from committee on revis ion and adjustment on article on legislature........................ on report from committee on rules in reference to amendment to rule 44. 191 on report from committee on rules, on the subject of amending the rules of convention............... 1234 on resolution of Mr. Allen, of Craw ford, authorizing employment of clerks by committees............... 322 on resolution of Mr. Allen, of Craw ford in reference to manner of printing reports from committees. 251 on resolution of Mr. Anthony, in ref erence to order of signing constitu tion...............................1861 on resolution of Mr. Archer, in refer ence to printing certain articles of the constitution................... 1130 on resolution of Mr. Browning, in ref erence to hour of adjournment of convention......................... 141 on resolution of Mr. Bryan, in refer ence to order of business.......... 453 on resolution of Mr. Buxton, in refer ence to use of hall of representa tives for lecture................... 345 on resolution of Mr. Cameron in ref erence to 15th amendment.....174, 175 REMARKS-Continued. of Mr. Bryan, on report from commit tee on future amendments........ 425 of Mr. Cameron, on question of priv ilege.................... 178, 188, 1321 of Mr. Cary, on question of privilege.1165 of Mr. Church, in reference to amend ment to section 8 of schedule, as reported by committee on revision and adjustment...................1860 of Mr. Church, on amendment of Mr. Fox to report from committee on roads and internal navigation in reference to private roads......... 258 of Mr. Church, on question of privi lege............................... 167 of Mr. Church, on resolution in refer ence to the state as defendant in courts of law or equity............ 175 of Mr. Church, on resolution of Mr. Cary in reference to engrossing clerk.............................. 78 of Mr. Church, on submission of pro posed amendment to constitution in reference to consideration of railroads as public highways...... 1320 of Mr. Cody, on question of privilege. 628 ~ 629, 1823, 1502 of Mr. Cody, on report from commit tee on revision and adjustment on articles on suffrage, education, rev enue, counties, corporations, mili tia, canals and warehouses........ 1834 of Mr. Cody, on resolution in refer ence to compensation for enrolling constitution..................... 1861 of Mr. Cody, on resolution request ing appointment of additional mem bers of committee on revision and adjustment........................ 1324 of Mr. Coolbaugh, on resolution m reference to limitation of state in debteduess........................ 150 of Mr. Dement, in reference to repeal of rule in regard to presentation of resolutions...................... 895 of Mr. Dement, on question of privf iS le~ge,......................... 1052, 1053 of Mr' English, on resolution of in quiry to county clerks in reference to railroads........................ 182 of Mr. Eldredge, on submission of pe tition in reterence to railroad and warehouse frauds.................. 627 of Mr. Fox, OD question of privilegee.1226 of Mr. Goodhue, on question of priv ilege.......................... S51, 1528 of Mr. Haines, of Lake, in reference to form of journal................. 9 of Mr. Haines, of Lake, on question of privilege.................... 320,1144 of Mr. Hay, in reference to order of business........................... 1209 of Mr. Hayes, on question of privi lege............................... 678 of Mr. King, on resolution to amend rule 44............................ 169 of Mr. McCoy, in reference to further consideration of report from com mittee on state, county and munici p)al indebtedness..................1209 of Mr. McCoy, on question of privi lege..................189, 115 of~ Mr.'Medili: in reference to lecture on female suffrage................1392 of Mr Mealill, on the subject of plant ing trees on highways........................... 83 of Mr. Merriam, on question of privi lege...~~~~~~..... 392 of Mr. Moore, on question of priv lege..................... 389 of Mir. Moore, on resolution of Mr. King in reference to appointment of janitor to senate chamber......1234 of Mr. Parks, in reference to asoption of report from committee on ac counts and expenditures of conven tion in reference to unnecessary employes of convention.......1231 of Mir. Peirce, on submission of arti cle in reference to subscriptions to capital stock of private corpora tions.................................1104 of Mr. Peirce, on submission of ma jfority report irom committee on fledeal relations...............1153 of Mr. Peirce, on submission of report from committee on township or ganization, in reference to planting trees on highways-..... 1a. of Mr. Perley, on question'of privi l e g e~~~~~~~.1180 l —22: of president, in reference to recess of convention...................... 894 of president of convention, on e le c - tion.............................. 50 of president, on presentation on be half of pages of convention.......1029 on additional sections to report from committee on legislature...... 743, 744 on additional section to report from committee on miscellaneous sub jects, in reference to divorce..1207,1208 on amendment to proposition in ref erence to railroad and municipal indebtedness of Quincy, Ill...1814,1849 on announcement of death of Hon. H. W. Billings.............1446 to 1451 on announcement of death of Hon. Charles Emmerson.........1384 to 1338 on announcement of death of Hon. A. G. Kirkpatrick......... 1228 to 1230 on announcement of death of lHon. Wm. H. Patterson............195, 196 INDEX. 83 84 INDEX.~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ REMARKS-Continued. on resolution of Mr. Wheaton in ref erence to limitation of debate in committee of the whole........ 613, 614 on resolution of Mr. Whiting in ref erence to considering railroads pub lic corporations................146, 147 on complimentary resolution of Mr. Whiting in reference to essay on the origin of the prairies........... 488 on resolution of Mr. Wright in refer ence to ventilation of hall....1210,1211 on resolution of Mr. Wright to em ploy temporary enrolling clerk.... 138 on resolution of inquiry of Mr. An derson to Secretary of State in ref erence to amount of stationery fur nished to convention.............. 533 on resolution of inquiry of Mr. An thony to Alexander Starne, trustee, etc., and to Auditor of State, in reference to lands belonging to Joel A. Matteson..............334, 335 on resolution of inquiry of Mr. De ment to Secretary of State in refer ence to the expenses of the two last sessions of general assembly.. 91 on resolution of inquiry of Mr. Trues dale to Auditor of State, in refer ence to appropriations by general assembly.......................... 323 on resolution of instruction of Mr. Allen, of Crawford, to committee on revenue, in reference to taxation of church property used for other than religious purposes............ 213 on resolution of instruction of Mr. Bromwell to committee on judicia ry, in,reference to eminent domain in regard to railroads.............. 487 on resolution of instruction of Mr. Bromwell to committee on legisla ture, in reference to quorums...... 172 on resolution of instruction of Mr. Cameron to committee on accounts and expenditures of convention, in reference to postmaster of conven tion.............................. 758 on the subject of amending rule 44, in regard to order of business..173, 174 on the subject of call of convention. 798 on the subject of convention print iDg............................... 1211 on the subject of the distribution of committee reports................. 308 on the subject of printing constitu tion of the United States.......... 84 on the subject of printing petitions, etc................ 306 on the subject of printing prayers offered in convention.......... 1:9, 140 on the subject of the reference of article 14th, concerning immigra tion of people of color............ 82 on the subject of the reference of the preamble to committee............ 183 on the subject of the special order in reference to certain reports....482, 484 on submission of memorial in refer ence to Cook county judiciary..... 1077 on submission of report from commit tee on accounts and expenditures of convention in reference to ex penditures of convention....1209, 1210 on submission of report from comit tee on accounts and expenditures of convention in reference to pay of janitors............................ 653 on submission of report from commit tee on accounts and expenditures of convention- in reference to per diem of members and officers of convention, etc.................... 998 on submission of report from commit tee on bill of rights in reference to the distribution of the powers of the state government............. 281 on submission of report from commit tee on executive department...290, 291 on submission of reports from com mittee on future amendments.... 391 392 on submission of report from commit tee on legislative department..292, 293 on submission of report from com mittee on municipal corporations. 391 on submission of report from commit. tee on -Drinting and binding in ref erence to furnishing state maps to convention.................... 280, 281 on submission of report firom commit tee on right of suffrage............. 157 to 161, 856, 857 on submission of report from commit tee on rules in reference to the adoption of rule 50, limiting speech es................................. 490 on submission of statistics in refer ence to cost of Illinois & Michigan Canal......................... 366, 367 on substitute of Mr. Cameron to reso lution of Mr. Peirce in reference to secretaries of convention.......... 1869 REMARKS-Cortfninued. on resolution of Mr. Cameron in ref erence to the transfer of townships. 192 on resolution of Mr. Cameron to ap point committee on mine s a nd min eral interests................ 81 8, 84, 85 on resolution of Mr. Came r on to re scind r esolution to print proposed amendments to constitution....... 116 on resolution of Mr. Cary, in refer ence to employing additional cleri cal force.......................... 71 on resolution of Mr. Cary, in refer ence to employing engrossing clerk 77 on resolution of Mr. Church in refer ence to consideration of reports of committees....................... 727 on resolution of Mr. Church, in refer ence to morning sessions of conven tion............................... 1233 on resolution of Mr. Cody, in refer ence to committee room of judici ary commnittee...................... 988 on resolution of Mr. Cross, in refer ence to furnishing State maps to convention........................ 263 on resolution of Mr. English, in refer ence to distribution of committee reports............................ 308 on resolution of Mr. English, in refer ence to recess of convention....... 726 on resolution of Mr. Goodell in ref erence to legal rights............... 85 on resolution of Mr. lHaines, of Lake, in reference to furnishing postage stamps to members of con vention........................ 344, 345 on resolution of Mr. Haines, of Lake, in reference to per diem of members of convention during recess........ 345 ,on resolution of Mr. Hanna in refer ence to election of delegate to con vention in place of Hon. B. W. Henry....................... 1031, 1032 on resolution of Mr. Hay to appoint committee on accounts and expen ditures of convention.............. 92 on resolution of Mr. Henry in refer ence to furnishing newspapers to members of convention............ 57 on resolution of Mr. King to refer ac counts of convention to committee on accounts and expenditures of convention........................ 678 on resolution of Mr. McCoy in refer ence to time of consideration of re port from committee on miscella neous corporations................ 346 on resolution of Mr. Medill in refer ence to employing messenger to stenographer...................... 138 on resolution of Mr. Parxs in refer ence to powers and duties of con vention............................ 92 on resolution of Mr. Peirce in refer ence to additional pay to secretaries of convention.............1860 on resolution of Mr. Sedgwick in ref erence to furnishing newspapers to members of convention........125, 126 on resolution of Mr. Snyder in refer ence to removal of convention to Chicago..............322 on resolution of Mr. Turner in refer ence to furnishing manual to con vention........................136, 137 on resolution of lMr. Turner in refer e~nce to payment of pages of con vention..............75 on resolution of Mr. Underwood in reference to essay on the origin of the prairies......................., 481 on resolution of Mr. ~andeventer in reference to form of committee re ports................146 ~)n resolution of Mr. Wall, in refer,ence to employment of enrolling ~lerks by comnmittee on revision and ad iustment.......... 1846 on resolution of Mr. Washburn in ref erence to recess of convention 1078, 1077 on resolution of Mr. Washburn to re fupd value of postage stamps..346, 347 on resolution of Mr. Wells to pur chase 200 copies of manual...145, 146 on resolution of Mr. Wendling in ref erence to furnishing additional post. age stamps to secretary of conven tion.............367, 368 on resolut/ion of Mr. W~heaton in ref erenlce to abolishment of committee of the whole...........,~.- 1367, 1368 on resolution of instruction of Mr. Cummings to committee on print ing and binding, in reference to cost of convention printing............cn8 532 on resolution of instruction of Mr. Goodhue to committee on revision and adjustment, in reference to section 6 of article on right of suf frage....... 1662, 1663, 1725, 1726 on resolution of instruction of Mr. nIaines, of Lake, to committee on judiciary, in reference to consider iing railroads as common carriers, etc........................... 148 on resolution of instruction of Mr. Moore to Auditor of State and treasurers of state normal school and industrial university, in refer ence to Superintendent of Public Instruction.............. 1389 to 1393 on resolution of instruction of Mr. Neece to committee on revision and adjustment, in reference to section 11 of judiciary article......1763 on resolution of instruction of Mr. Rice to committee on legislature, in reference to special and private acts of incorporation............... 172 on resolution of instruction of Mr. Turner to Secretary of State, in reference to publication of journal of convention..................... 213 on resolution of instruction of Mr. Wall to committee on penitentiary and reformatory institutions in reference to state penitentiary.1277,1278 on resolution of instruction of Mr. Wall to committee on revision and adjustme nt, in reference to election of masters in chancery....... 1789,1790 on resolution of instruction of Mr. Wells to committee on roads and internal navigation, in reference to private roads.................. 135, 136 on resolution of instruction of Mr. Whiting to committee on revision and adjustment, in reference to article on warehouses........... 1707 on rule requiring two-thirds vote of convention........................1841 on rules of convention, in reference to township and county organiza tion............................ 73, 74 REMONSTRANCE against female suffrage, submitted by Mr. Atkins.................... 1840 in reference to proposed system of Cook county judiciary, submitted by Mr. Anthony.................. 1012 from Stone Cutters' Association, of Rock Island, in reference to convict labor, submitted by Mr. Eldredge.. 191 REMONSTRANCES REFERRED remonstrance against female suffrage, referred to committee on right of suffrage.......................... 1840 remonstrance in reference to proposed system of Cook county judiciary, referred to committee on judiciary.'1.012 remonstrance from stone cutters' as sociation of Rock Island, in refer ence to convict labor, referred to committee on mines and mining.,.. 191 84 INDEX. REMARKS-Continued. REMOVAL OF CONVENTION to Chicago, resolution of Mr. Snyder in reference to.................... 322 REI)IOVAL OF COUNTY SEATS petition in reference to........ 1477,1502 proposition in reference to.......... 1707 resolution of Mr. Ellis in reference to................................. 281 resolution of Mr. Haines, of Lake, in reference to............!......... 155 _.Em _ -a r..... REMOVAL OF COUNTY SEATS-Continued. resolution of Mr. Scholfield to amend constitution ini reference to........ 174 resolution of instruction of Mr. Bayne to committee on counties, in refer ence to............................ 154 REPORT-Continued. from committees on bill of rights and miscellaneous subjects in reference to preamble, debate on............231 to 235, 276 to 278 from committee on bill of rights, in reference to preamble, referred to committee on revision and adjust ment.........................n.... 278 from committee on bill of r ights, in - reference to the distribution of the powers of the state government, submitted by Mr. Allen, of Craw. ford............................... 281 from committee on canal and canal lands, submitted by Mr. Wheaton. 210 from committee on canal and canal lands, submitted by Mr. Whiting..1649 from committees on canal and canal lands and on internal improve meents, debate on............. 310 to 479 from committees on canal and canal lands and on internal improve ments, as amended in committee of the whole, debate on in convention.484 to 487 from committees on canal and canal lands and on internal improve ments, referred to committee on revision and adjustment...........30t 487 from committee on canal and canal lands, in reference to certain modi fications of article on canal, submit, ted by Mr. Whiting.................1649 from committee on canal and canal lands, in reference to certain modi fications of article on canal, re marks in regard to consideration o f................................ 1745 majority, from committee on coun ties, submitted by Mr. Craig....... 306 minority, from committee on coun ties, submitted by Mr. Abbott.... S07 from committee on counties, debate on......................... 1324 to 1267 from committee on counties, as amended in committee of the whole, debate on in convention...1502 to 1557 from committee on counties, referred to committee on revision and ad justment..........................1557 from committee on counties, in refer ence to maps for the use of com mittee, submitted by Mr. Craig.... 211 from committee on education, sub mitted by Mr. Parks..............1389 from committee on education, debate on........................ 1732 to 1745 from committee on education, as amended in committee of the whole, debate on in convention... reportin ac1745 to 1761 REPORT-Continued. from committee on finance, submit ted by Mr. Ross................. 1771,9 1776 from committee on finance, debate on..............17t71, 177s, 1783 to t1787 from committee on finance, referred to committee on revision and ad justment.......................... 1787 majority, from committee on future amendments, submitted by Mr. Archer.................. 391 minority, from committee on future amendments, submitted by Mr. Brown............................ 424 minority, from committee on future amendments, submitted by Mr. Haines, of Lake................... 391 from committee on future amend ments, debate on...........1309 to 1318 from committee on future amend ments, as amended in committee of the whole, debate on in conven tion........................ 1591 to 1595 from committee on future amend ments, referred to committee on re vision and adjustment.............1595 from committee on internal improve ments, submitted by Mr. Whiting. 256 from committee on internal improve ments, debate on............ 310 to 479 from committee on internal improve ments, as amended in committee of the whole, debate on in conven tion.......................... 484 to 487 from committee on internal_,imnprove ments, referred to committee on re vision and adjustment............. 487 from committee on investigation on accounts of Secretary of State, res olution of Mr. Parks to refer to the Governor.......................... 1865 from committee on judiciary, submit ted by Mr. Sliinner................ 852 from committee on judiciary. debate on........................... 974 to 1223 from committee on judiciary, s1 amended in committee of the whole, debate on in convention....1393 to 1501 REPORT from committee on accounts and ex penditures of convention, in r eer. ence to expenses of convention, submitted by Mr. Moore.....1209, 1649 1787, 1861 from committee on accounts and ex penditures of convention, in refer ence to expenses of convention, submitted by Mr. Moore..........1787 from committee on accounts and ex penditures of convention, in refer ence to expenses of convention, re marks on 1 209, 1210, 1787 to 1789 from committee on accounts and ex penditures of convention, in re gard to expenses of convention, resolution of Mr. Hay in reference to reference of.................... 1790 from committee on accounts and ex penditures of convention, in refer ence to pay of janitors, submitted by Mr. Moore..................... 653 from committee on accounts and ex penditures of convention, in refer ence to per diem of members and officers of convention, etc., submit ted by Mr. Springer............... 997 from committee on accounts and ex penditures of convention, in refer ence to postmaster of convention, submitted by Mr. Moore........... 857 from committee on accounts and ex penditures of convention, in refer ence to settlement of printing and reporting accounts, submitted by Mr. Moore...................1860 from committee on accounts and ex penditures of convention, in refer ence to settlement of printing and reporting accounts, referred to committee on printing and bind ing................, 1860 from committee on accounts and ex penditures of convention in refer ence to stationery furnished to con vention, submitted by Mr. Hav....1862. from committee on accounts expendi tures of convention in reference to unnecessary employes of conven tion, submitted by Mr. Moore.....1230 from committee on accounts and ex penditures of convention, in refer ence to unnessary employes of con vention, remarks of Mr. Parks in reference to adoption of.........1231 -from committee on address, submitted by Mr. Underwood................ 1863 .from committee on banks and curren cy, submitted by Mr. Tincher...... 1553 from committee on banks and curren cy, debate on 1678 to 1685 -from committee on banks and curren cy debate in convention on report from, as amended in committee of the whole................. 1685 to 1688 from committee on banks and curren cy, referred to committee on revis ion and adjustment................ 1688 from committee on bill of rights, submitted by Mr. Allen, of A~lexan d e r.......X...........1440 from committee on bill of rights, de bate on...............1558 to 1590 from committee on bill of rights, re ferred to committee on revision and adjustment................1590 Trom committee on bill of rights and miscellaneous subjectsi in relation to preamble, submitted by Mr. Ben jamin..............;. 299 from committee on education, re ferred to c( mmittee on revision and adjustment.17........... 1 61 from committee on electoral and rep resentative reform, submitted by Mr. Medill......................... 560 from committee on electoral and rep resentative reform, debate on M.. A. t1726 to 1730 from committee on electoral and rep res entative reform, referred to com mittee on revision and adjustment.1729 from committee on executive depart ment, submitted by Mr. Anthony.. 289 from committee on executive depart ment, debate on............. 745 to 826 from committee on executive depart ment, as amended in committee of the whole, debate on, in conven tion.......I to I......1369 to 1388 from committee on executive, referred to committee on revision and ad justment.........................13887 from committee on executive depart men t, in reference to oath of office, submitted by Mr. Anthony......... 851 majority, from committee on federal relations, submitted by Mr. Peirce.1152 majority, from committee on federal relations, remarks of Mr. Peirce on submission of.....................1153 minority, from committee on federal relations, submitted by Mr. Wend ling............................... 1155 from committee on federal relations debate on.................. 1764 to 1771 from committee on federal relations, in form of resolutions, submitted by Mr. Peirce.....................1764 INDEX. 8.5 REMOVAL OF OFFICERS resolution of Mr. Anthony in refer enceto............................1 REMOVAL OE' STATE CAPITAL resolution of Mr. Snyder in reference to................................ 679 REPE&L of rule in regard to presentation of resolutions, remarks of Mr. Dement in reference to.................... 896 from committee on judiciary, refer red to committee on revision and adjustment............ from committee on judiciary, resolu tion of Mr. Anderson in refe.-ei-lee to further consideration of. from committee on judiciary, resolu tion of Mr. Cary to postpone fur therconriderationofseetion39of..1180 from committee on judiciary in fer-' 1'e ,ence to eminent domain, submitted by Mr. Church............ 703 from committee on jli:a'l"divisions of the state, submitted by Mr. Medill............................. 1208 from committee on lezislative depart ment, submitted y Mr. AlleD, of Crawford.......................... 291 from committee on legislative depart ment, as amended, submitted by Mr. Allen, of Crawford............ 393 from committee on legislative depart, ment, debate on.............. 490 to 743 from coinmitteeon legislative depart ment, as amended in committee of the whole, debate on in convention 917 to 972 from committee on legislative depart ment, referred to committee on re vision and adjustments......... 972 from committee on legislative depart ment, remarks on additional sec tions offered to................ 743, 741majority, from committee on milita ry affairs, submitted by Mr. Cam eron.............................. 293 minority, from committee on military affairs, submitted by Mr. Aiider son........................... 307 from committee on military Wirs, debate on.................... 860 to 866 from committee on military affairs, referred to committee on revision and adjustment.............. 866 from committee on mines and mineral interests, in reference to the pro tect,lon of the lives of miners, sub mitted by Mr. Snyder.............. 210 from committee on mines and mineral interests, in r ference to protection of the lives oe miners, debate on.. 2C4 to 276 86 JNDIX. REPORT-Continued. from committee on printing and binding in reference to constitution and address, etc, submitted by Mr. Cameron.........................1846 from committee on printing and binding in reference to constitution and address, etc., debate on.1846 to 1848 from committee on printing and bind ing, in reference to correction of speeches, submitted by Mr. Medill. 167 from committee on printing and bind ing, in reference to correction of speeches, debate on.............. 168 from committee on Drinting and bind ing, in reference to cost of conven tion printing, submitted by Mr. Turner.Ca............................ 654 from committee on printing and bind ing, in reference to furnishing man uals to convention, submitted by Mr. Medill.............. 145 from committee on printing and bind ing, in reference to furnishing man uals to convention, debate on..145, 146 from committee on printing and bind ing, in reference to furnishing newspapers to convention, submit. ted by Mr. Turner................ 129 from committee on printing and bind ing, in reference to furnishing newspapers to convention, debate on...........................129 to 134 from committee on printing and bind inDg, in reference to furnishing state maps to convention, submitted by Mr. Turner...................... 280 from committee on printing and bind ing, in reference to index to de bates, etc., submitted by Mr. Tur ner..........t whl dbton1865 from committee on printing and bind ing, in reference to index to de bates, etc., remarks on............. tet. 1865 from committee on printing and bind ing, in reference to printing consti tution and address, etc., submitted by Mr. Cameron..................fo 1790 from committee on printing and bind ing, in reference to printing consti tution and address, etc., remarks on..n............................. 1790 from committee on printing and bind ing, in reference to printing and binding convention debates, sub mitted by Mr. Cameron...........r r 101 from committee on printing and bind ing, in reference to printing and binding convention debates, sub mitted by Mr. Medill..............to 118 from committee on printing and bind iLg, in reference to printing and binding convention debates, debate on.....m o101 to 113, 118 to 125 from committee on printing and bind ing, in reference to printing and binding convention debates, resolu tion of Mr. Hay to adopt..........jtmn 124 from committee on printing and bind iug, in reference to printing jourfrom cmnal, laws, etc., submitted by Mr. Turner................... 245 from committee on printing and bind ing, in reference to printing jour nal, laws, etc., debate on -9.5 to 249 r subjects in reference'tope 252 to 256 REPORT-Continued. from committee on public accounts an eend expenditures in reference to ar ticle on future appropriations for state house, referred to committee on revision and adjustment........ 1774 firom committee on railroad corpora tions, submitted by Mr. Buxton... 480 from committee on railroad corpora tions, debate on............ 1637 to 1664 from committee on railroad corpora tions, as amended in committee of the whole, debate on in conven tion........................ 1706 to 1723 from committee on railroad corpora tions, referred to committee on re. vision and adjustment............. 1722 from committee on retrenchment and reform in reference to convention and assembly expenses since 1862, submitted by Mr. Wait............ ~226 from committee on retrenchment and reform, in reference to convention and assembly expenses since 1862, debate on......... 226 to 230, 237 to 245 from committee on revenue, submit ted by Mr. Hay.................... 321 0-om committee on revenue, as amended, submitted by Mr. Hay...1012 from committee on revenue, debate on............. 1196 to 1202, 1242 to 1280 from committee on revenue, as amended in committee of the whole, debate on in convention....1597 to 1621, 1774 to 1776 from committee on revenue, referred to committee on revision and ad justment.......................... 1775 from committee on revision and ad justment in reference to section 1 of report from committee on suf frage, as amended in committee of the whole, submitted by Mr. Cody. 1529 from committee on revision and ad justmen t,in reference to section I of report from committee on suffrage, as amended in committee of the whole, remarks on........... 1529, 1530 from committee on revision and ad justment, on article on judiciary, submitted by Mr. Cody............ 1810 from committee on revision and ad justment on article on judiciary, de bate on.................... 1810 to 1813 from committee on revision and ad justment, on article on legislature, remarks on....................... 1789 from committee on revision and ad justment, on articles on preamble, boundaries,[bill of rights, distribu tion of powers, legislative and ex ecutive, submitted by Mr. Cody...1776 from committee on revision and ad justment on articles on preamble, boundaries, bill of rights, distribu tion of powers, legislature and ex ecutive, debate on......... 1776 to 1783 from committee on revision and ad justment on articles on suffrage, education, revenue, counties, cor porations, militia, canals and waxe houses, submitted by Mr. Cody....1834 from committee on revision and ad justment on articles on suffrage, education, revenue, counties, corpo rations, militia, canals and ware houses, debate on............1834 to 1840 from committee on revision and ad justment on articles on suffrage, ed ucation, revenue, counties, corpo rations, militia, canals and wvare houses, remarks of Mr. Cody on...1834L from committee on revision and ad justment on schedule, submitted by Mr. Cody................. 1849, 1850 from committee on revision and ad justment on schedule, debate on...1849 'to 1859 from committee on revision and ad justment, remarks in reference to..1688 1689 from committee on revision and ad justment, resolution of Mr. McDow ell in reference to consideration of. 1662 majority, from committee on right of suffrage, submitted by Mr. Dement 157 85~1 from committee on printing and bind ing, in reference to publication of constitution, submitted by Mr. Tur ner............................... 1704 from committee on printing and bind ing in reference to publication of constitution, remarks on...1704 to 1706 from committee on printing and bind ing in reference to settlement of printing and reporting accounts, submitted by Mr. Turner.......... 1860 from committee on printing and bind inlug in reference to transcription of journal of convention, submitted by Mr. Medill........................ 1865 from committee on public accounts and expenditures in reference to ar ticle on future appropriations for state house, submitted by Mr. Church............................ 1621 from committee on public accounts and expenditures in reference to ar ticle on future appropriations for state house, remarks on.......... 1621 1622, 1772, 1773 INDEX. 86 REPORT-Cont,inued. from committee on miscellaneous cor porations, submitted by Mr. McCoy 833 from committee on miscellaneous corporations, debate on.... 1664 to 1669 from comniittee on miscellaneous cor porations, as amended in comnait tee of the whole, debate on in con vention........................... 1702 from committee on miscellaneou- cor.Porations, referred to committee on revision and adjustment........... 1702 from committee on miscellaneous cor porations, resolution of Mr. McCoy, in reference to time of consideration of......:;........................ U5 from comma -.,tee on miscellaneous cor porations in reference to ware houses, submitted bv Mr. Cary.... 1155 from committee on miscellaneous cor poratiODS, in reference to ware houses, debate on.......... 1622 to 16'.>7 from committee on miscellaneous cor porations, in reference to ware houses, as amended im committee of the whole, debate on in convention.1693 to 1701 from committee on miscellaneous corporations in reference to ware houses, referred to committee on re vision and adjustment............. 1701 from committee on miscellaneous subjects, in reference to home steads, submitted by Mr. Under. wood............................. 281 frqm committee on miscellaneous sub jects in reference to homestead ex emptions, debate on......... 895 to 912 from committee on miscellaneous subjects in reference to homestead exemption, as amended in commit tee of the whole, debate on, in con vention.. 1689 to 1692 fr commi e on miscellaneous subjects in reference to homestead exemptions, referred to committee on revision and adjustment........ 1692 from committee on miscellaneous ubjets in reference to intoxicat ing liquors, submitted by Mr. Un derwood.......................... 1031 from committee on miscellaneous subjects, in reference to observance of the Sabbath, submitted by Mr. Underwood...........:........... 798 from committee on miscellaneous subjects, on the subject of the ob r,ervance of the Sabbath day, re marks of Mr. Underwood in refer enceto.... ii. .................... 798 from commi e on mi,-,cellaneo-,as subjects, on petition in reference to state CODStiiution, submitted by Mr. Underwood................... 191 from committee on miscellaneous subjects, on -Dreamble, submitted by Mr. Underood................ 190 from committee on miscellaneous subjects, in reference to preamble, -referred to committee on revision and a ustment................... 278 minority, from committee on!right of suffrage, submitted by Mr' Ifaines, of Lake........ 1,57, 856 minority, i;o"m"c,o"m,'m'i't't'e'e on right of suffrage, submitted by Mr. McDow ell.....................I..*......... 856 ........~~~IDE. -- REPORT-Contin'd. REPORT-Confinud'. REPORTS REPORT-Continued. from Auditor of State in reference to township organization, resolution of Mr. Peirce to print.............. 1104 REPORT-Contin ied. from committee on right of suffrage, debat e on....................1280, 1281 from committee on right of suffrage, as amended in committee of the whole, debate on in convention....1281 to 1309 from committee on right of suffrage, referred to committee on revision and adjustment....................1309 from committee on right of suffrage, resolution of Mr. Hay to postpone special order in reference to con sideration of...................... 560 majority, from committee on roads and internal navigation in reference to private roads, submitted by Mr. Perley............................. ~157 minority, from committee on roads and internal navigation in reference to private roads, submitted by Mr. Sedgwick......................... 257 from committee on roads and inter nal navigation, debate on....883 to 894 from committee on roads and inter nal navigation, referred to commit tee on revision and adjustment.... 894 from committee on rules of conven tion, submitted by Mr. Coolbaugh.. 58 from committee on rules of conven tion, debate on...................59, 60 from committee on rules in reference to adoption of rule 49, submitted by Mr. Church....................... 250 from committee on rules, in refer ence to the adoption of rule 50, limiting speeches, submitted by Mr. Bromwell..................... 490 from committee on rules, in reference to the adoption of rule 50, limiting speeches, remarks on submission ofr........ 490 from committee on rlules, in reference to amendment of rule44, submitted by Mr. Allen, of Crawford......... 191 from committee on rules, on the sub ject of amending the rules of the convention, submitted by Mr. Ross.1233 from committee on rules, on the sub ject of amending the rules of con vention, remarks on...............1234 from committee on schedule, sub mitted by Mr. Medill.............. 1791 from committee on schedule, debate on......................... 1791 to 1810 from committee on schedule, as amended in,committee of the whole, debate on in convention...1819 to 1832 from committee on schedule, referred to committee on revision and ad justment.......................... 1832 from committee on state, county and municipalsindebtedness, submitted by Mr. McCoy................... 189 from committee on state, county and municipal indebtedness, debate on. 214 to 222, 284 to 305, 833 to 851 REPORTS OF COMMITTEES remarks on the subject of the distri bution of......................... 308 resolution of Mr. Allen, of Crawford in reference to manner of printing. 251 resolution of Mr. Church in reference to consideration of................... 727 resolution of Mr. Church, in reference to consideration of, called up and referred to committee on rules.... 745 resolution of Mr. Church, in reference to consideration of, in convention. 702 resolution of Mr. English in reference to distribution of................ 308 resolution of Mr. Pillsbury in ref'er ence to consideration of, in commit tee of the wvhole.................. 490 resolution of Mr. Vandeventer in ref erence to form of.................. 146 report from committee on accounts and expenditures of convention, in reference to settlement of printing and reporting accounts, referred to committee on printing and bindingl860 report from committee on banks and currency, referred to committee on revision an(l adjustment..........1688 report from commlittee on bill of rights relerred to committee on re vision and adjustment............ 190 report from committee on bill of rights in refereince to preamble, re ferred to committee on revision and adjustment....................... 278 report ft om committees on canal and canal lands and on internal improve metnts, refrred to committee on re vision and adjustment............... 487 report from committee on counties, referred to committee on revision and adjustment..............;....1557 report fromn committee on education, referred to committee on revision and adjustmcnt....................N C1T761 report from committee on electoral and representative reform, referred to committee on revision and ad justment....................... 1729 report from committee on executive, referred to committee on revision and adjustment....................1387 report fr om committee on finance, re ferred to committee on revision and adjustment....................1787 report irtm committee on future amendments, referred to committee on revision and adjustment........1595 report from committee on judiciary, referred to committee on revision and adjustime,,,t.................... 1500 report ft om committee on legislative department, referred to committee on revision and adjustment........ 972 report from committee on military affairs, referred to committee on re vision and adjustment............. acut 866 report from committee on miscellan e ous corporations, referred to com mitiee o n revision and adjustment. 17012 report from committee on-mniscellane ous corporations, in reference to warehouses, referred to committee on revision and adjustment............... 1701 report firom committee on miscella neous subjects, in reference to hom estead e xempt ion, referred to committee on revision and adjust ment.............................. 1692 report from committee on miscellane ous subjects, in reference to prea m ble, referred to committee on revis ion an d adju stment................ 278 report firom committee on munbicipal corporations, referred to committ ee on revision and adjustment........1725 report from committee on public ac counts and expenditures, in refer ence to future a ppropriations for state house, referred to committee on revision and adjustment.......1 t t ed i c. 1774 report from committee on r ailroad corpor ations, referred to commit teeon revision and adjust-ent.....autliorizing l722 report from comumittee on revenuer referred to committee on revision and adjustment of clerks*X......... report from e o n mittee on right of suffrage, referred to committee on revisoo and adjustment.............1300 report from committee on roads and i nte rnal nboign tion, refe rred to committee on revision and adjust - ment..............-.... 894 report from commnittee on schedule, referred to committee on revision and@,adjus tm eat..........................1832 report from commnittee on state, county and mummepal indebtedness, referred to c,,mmittee on revision and adj ustmeu7t.......................16 report fromn commuitt~ee on township organization, refe-rred to committee on revision and adjustment............... 882 REPORTING AND PRINTING accounts, report from committee on accounts and expenditures of con vention, in reference to settlement of, subiiiitted by Mr. Moore.......1860 a ccounts, report from committee on printing and binding, in reference - to settlement of, submitted by Mr. Turner............................ 1860 of convention, resolution of instruc tion of Mr!arks, to committee on accounts and expenditures of con vention, in reference to cost of....1649 from committee on state, county and municipal indebtedness, as amend ed in committee of the whole, de bate on in convention......1256 to 1260 from committee on state, county and municipal indebtedness, referred to committee on revision and adjust ment..............................1260 from committee on state, county and municipal indebtedness, remarks of Mr. McCoy, in reference to further consideration of................... 1209 from committee on state, county and municipal indebtedness, resolution of Mr. McCoy, in reference to fur ther consideration of............... 261 from committee on township organi zation, in reference to planting trees on highways, submitted by Mr. Peirce............................. 161 majority, from committee on town ship organization, submitted by Mr. Peirce............ 293 minority, from comm ittee on town ship organization, submitted by Mr. Haines, of Lake................... 293 from committee on township organi zation, debate on............873 to 882 from committee on township organi; Ization, referred to committee on re vision and adjustment............. 882 from committee appointed to select committee to prepare address to the people of the State, submitted by Mr. Cummings............... 4..1783 1 —23 RESIGNING and deceased members of convention, resolution of Mr. SDyder in refer ence to pay of..................... 987 INDEX. 87 REPORTS certain, of circuit judges, communi cation in reference to.....365, 389, 653 and ar.ticles, certain, resolution of Mr. Medill to print................ 1231 REPORTS REFERRED EPORTS OF"JUDGES 6. I' of circuit courts, in relationto amend ments to the, I-,tws, resolution of in quiry of Mr. Atkins to clerk of su preme court for 3rd L,,j-alad division of state of I'Llinols, i- reference to. f state of I'Llinols, in- reference to. 98 REPORTS OF STANDIN4 COMMITTEES resolution of Mr. Peirce in referenceI to 258 resolution... of"M''r.""W''h'e'a't'o'u' cnce to delivery of printed COplei3, of................................... w 194 REPORTER OF SUPRE,'AE COURT petition in reference to........... 250, 894 REPRESENTATION resolution of Mr. Peirce in reference to ratio of......................... 91 mikiority and minorit, resolution of instruction of Mr. Benjamin to com mitte(-.- on electoral and representa tive reform, in reference to........ 175 RESIG'i,IATIO.N of Mr. Henry, presented by Mr. Sny der................................ 965 ESOLUTIONS in reference to the regulation and de velopmei,it of State railroads and canals, submitted by the Presidentl476 remarks of Mr. DemeDt in reference to repeal of rule in regard to pre sentation of....................... 895 RESOLUTION authorizing clerks of circuit courts' to,let as recorders in certain cases. 213 authorizing committee on legislative department to employ clerk....... 113 authorizing doorkeeper to procure necessary articles.................. 81 authorizing employment of clerks by I ....................... 322 a-uthoriZlDg employment of clerks by committee on revision and ad justment.......................... 1393 allthOl'iZiDg seci etary Io employ tem poi-ary engrossit-ig clerk............ 78 directing Seeretary of State to fur -nish otticial reporters with necessa ry -materials................. w I I I 172, 81 88 I ND EX. — RESOLUTION-Continued. in reference to considering railroad corporations as individuals........ bra 150 in reference to considering railroads as public corporations..................... 146 in reference to consideration of re ports of committees.............77. ti.4.. 727 in reference to consideration of re ports of committees, called up and referred to committee on rules.... 745 in reference to consideration of the reports of committees, in commit tee of the whole......................... 490 in reference to consideration of re ports of committees, in conven tion.......................... 702 in reference to consideration of re port firom committee on revision and adjustment...................1662 in reference to contracts, etc........ 965 in reference to control of school funds............................. 127 in reference to convention journal... 1845 in referenee to convention postage..1231 1763 in reference to convention printing.. 94 1179, 1207 in reference to corporal punishment in schools.........................1078 in reference to the cost of committee r o oms............................. 510 in reference to county collector and sheriff.........................93 in reference to county courts and their jurisdiction.................. 67 in reference to county courts and their jurisdiction, taken up and referred to judiciary committee........... 88 in reference to county representa tion...........................116 in reference to the custody and dis tribution of printed matter of con vention.......................... 389 in reference to daily prayer in con vention........................... 56 in reference to delivery of printed copies of report of standing com mittees........................... 194 in reference to distribution of com mittee reports.................... 308 in reference to divorces........91, 128, 282 in reference to drains................ 262 in reference to drawing of seats...... 28 in reference to educational appropria tions and donations............... 139 in reference to elections, and bribery at elections....................... 98 in reference to election and compen sation of State officers............. 83 in reference to election of delegate to convention in place of Hon. B. W. Henry.............................1031 in reference to election of delegate to convention, in place of Hon. A. G. Kirkpatrick....................1231 in reference to election of delegate to convention, in place of Hon. W. H. Patterson, deceased...197, 198, 200, 208 in reference to election of members of the house of representatives, etc.. 151 in reference to election of permanent officers of convention....................49, 50 in reference to election of public ad ministrator.................... 5 by....X............17410 in reference to election of town and city officers, etc....................6 154 in reference to eminent domain......321 ,713, 858 RESOLUTION-Continued. instructing secretary of convention to deliver to committee on finance, certain letters received from coun ty clerks, in reference to railroads 260 inviting Gen. Sheridan and staff to visit convention................... 1403 limiting speeches....................1596 prohibiting railroad consolidation... 212 requesting appointment of addition al members of committee on revis ion and adjustment................. 1324 requesting cerl ain information from Superintendent of Public Instruc tion..................139 2 requesting information from Auditor of State in reference to gross earn ings of Illinois Central railroad since June ll,h, 1869.............. 80 reqiiestir,g Judge Samuel H. Treat to administer oa,t,h of office.......... 42 in commemoration of the battle of New Orleans...................... 128 in reference to the abatement of taxes on real estate..................... 726 in reference to abolishment of com mittee of the whole............... 1367 in reference to additional pay to por ters.............................. 1869 in reference to additional pay to sec retaries of convention............. 1860 in reference to adjournment......... 86 87, 191, 453, 482, 615, 745, 987 in reference to adjournment, sire die, of convention..................... 249 1233, 1596, 1649, 1677, 1859, 1861 in reference to adoption of amend ments. to constitution............. 1156 in reference to afternoon sessions of convention................. 258, 261, 282 in reference to amendments to na tional constitution................ 98 in reference to amendment of plead ings, etc................. 261 in reference to application of 7 per cent tax of Illinois Central rail road.............................. 194 in reference to appointment of jani tor to senate chamber............. 1284 in reference to appointment of pages of convention..................... 54 in reference to appropriation of pri Yate property for public use....... 88 93, 155, 429 in reference to article on county and city indebtedness.................. 1190 in reference to bill of rights.......... 192 in reference to binding journal of con vention.......................... 176 in reference to bribery in general as sembly............................ 1477 in reierence to buncombe............ 758 in reference to capital stock of rail roads............................. 321 in reference to care of hall during re cess of convention................. 1190 in reference to carpet for state ar senal.............................. 988 in reference to certain amendments to constitution....................... 57 in reference to certain amendments to constitution, called up and referred to appropriate committees.................... T7 in reference to circuit courts..~.................. 72 in reference to circuit court litiga tion............ - 134 in rclbrenlce to city mayors, their pow erB anid duties..........................154 in reference to cleaning of hall dur ing recess of convention...................1210 in reference to closing hall on S3un day............................. 484 in reference to colored clergymnen................. 859 in reference to committee rooms.. 81, 488 in reference to committee room of judiciary committee.................... 988 in retes ence to common schools..261, 965 in reference to comp~ensation for en rollilxg constitution......................1861 in reference to compensation of judges......................................... 174 in relerenec to) compensation of mem bers of general assembly.,...... 128 in reference to compensation caf offi cers and m~em bers of con vent ion... 736 in referenc e to compensation for pri vate property appropriated for pub lic use....................v...v...... * * 192 in lreference to compensation for pri v~ate property apprXop.riated for p ub tic use, reported back fromcommnit tee on roads and internal njaviga tionl................. ~57 .~ in reference to employing additional clerical force...................... 70 in reference to the employment of clerks by committee on printing and binding....................... 533 in reference to the employment of clerks by standing committees..... 91 in reference to the employment of convict labor on State works..... 213 in reference to employing engrossing clerk.....................7..... 77. in reference to employment of enroll ii)g clerks by committee on revision and adjustment...................1845 in reference to employing messenger to stenograper..................... 138 in reference to employment of post master during recess of convenlti(on1208 in reference to employment of secre t a ri es during recess of conlvention.1190 in reference to the encouragement of li learnin v.......................... 211 in reference to essay on the "Origin of the Prairies"............... 481, 488 INDEX. 88 RESOLUTION-Continued. in reference to establishment of a bureau of agriculture, etc.......... 153 in reference to establishment of State UD!versity........................ 116 in reference to evening sess!OD Of COD vention................. 402, 1087, 1477 in reference to executive expenses... 76 in reference to executive vetoes...... 90 in reference to exemption of manu facturing companies from taxation. 100 in reference to extension of corporate limits............................ 679 in referedee to extra employes of con vention........................... 1012 in reference to fees of county clerks in certain cases.................... 262 in reference to fees of county offi cers 116, 174, 180 in refe'e'n'c'e' i'o'iwl''a'n'd''n' egro ruf frage............................... 212 in reference to 15th amendment.174, 175 in reference to form of committee re ports............................. 146 in reference to formation of new coanties.............. 93, 18C, 197, 262 in reference to free schools......... 176 in reference to furnishing additional newspapers to members of conven tion.............................. 134 in reference to furnishing additional postage stamps to secretary of con vention................. 367 in reference to furnishing e ates to newspapers................... 213, 236 in reference to furnishing mantial to CODVention......................... 136 in reference to furnish!D',' members of convention with additional copies of debates........................ 1339 In reference to furnishing members of convention with newspapers.... 57, 61 125, 132, 169 in reference to furnishing postage stamps to members of convention. 91 93, 344, 481, 1320 in reference to furnishing statb maps to convention..................... 262 in reference to furnishing stationery to members of convention...... 65, 66 in referedce to further amendments to Constitution.................... 1866 in reference to further consideration of report from committee on judi ciary................... 1087 in referen e o rther consideration of report from committee on state, county and municipal indebted nesS......'.....261, 273 a referen I-e o ture co stitutional conventions......................:L35 in reference to futui e revision of con stitution.......................... 176 in reference to general and special laws.............................. 98 in reference to general and special laws of cities............. 154 in reference to general wd especial taxes............................. 154 in reference to general taxation for local benefit....................... 194 in reference to grand jury and in dictments by...................... 174 in reference to the granting of fran chises in certain cases............. 654 in reference to granting leave of ab -,CC....I..................... 832, 859 in reference to heading of statio furnished members of convention 72 in reference to homesteads.......... 92 in reference to the hour of adjourn metit ofconvedtion............... 141 in reference to Illinois and Michigan Ca'na4i..............:............. 100 in reference to imprisonment for debt.............................. 334 in reference to incorporation of towns............................. 155 in reference to increase of oflicial fees durin term of office.............. 138 in reference to ineligibility of office holders to general assembly and future conventions................ 76 in reference to ineligibility to future office of public otticers guilty of eiL-bezzl(-'MeDt and defalcation..... 116 in referedce to the iSSUiDg of stock by railroad corporations.............. 213 in reference to judicial division of the state.......................... 1010 in reference to'ustices of supreme court............................ 08 JND-X 8 RESOLUTION-Continued. in reference to payment of officers and members of convention....... 87 88, 192, 429, 987, 1178, 1425 in reference to payment of pages of convention........................ 75 in reference to pay of policemen of convention...................... 1202 in reference to payment of tempora ry employes of conyention......8. 88S, 92 in reference to place of holding su preme court...................... 100 in reference to per dien during recess of convention................345, 1860 in reference to per diem of officers of and members of convention, re ported back from committee on accounts and expenditures of con vention and agreed to............ 998 complimentary, in reference to por traits of Abraham Lincoln and Ste. phen A. Douglas.................. 178 in reference to the powers and duties of convention..................... 91 in reference to powers of state de partments......................... 98 in reference to power of supreme court.............................. 321 in reference to preamble............. 154 in reference to preparation of address to the people of the state........... 1677 in reference to present system of numbering ballots................ 98 in reference to printing certain arti cles of the constitution............ 119 u29 in reference to printing decbates.90,(2) 987 in reference to printing resolutions.. 88 in reference to printing veto mes sages............................. 151 in reference to proportionate taxa tion.............................. 194 in reference to proposals for conven tion printing................... 67 in reference to protection in public worship........................... 139 in reference to publication of consti tution and address..............18 45 in reference to publication of laws in county newspapers................ 212 in reference to publication of legi-la tive expenses...................... 260 in reference to publication of local and general laws.................. 116 in reference to publication and distri bution of proceedings of conven tion........................ 62, 64, 125 in reference to public highways..... 176 in reference to public highways, e-. ported back from committee on roads and internal navigation.....257 in reference to railroad tariff.......1477 in reference to ratio of representa tion............................... 91 in reference to ratification of amend ments to constitution..... 55, 56 in reference to ratification of amend ments to federal constitution...... 161 in reference to ratification of amend ments to state and national consti tutions............................ 262 in reference to recess of convention.. 726, 859, 860, 866, 1077 in reference to oath to be taken by members of conven tion............r t. 590 in reference to obtaining property by mnisrepresentation or fraudulent transactions....................... 129 in reference to official fees........ 179, 367 in reference to official fees and the eli gibility of sheriffs to re-election.... 83 in reference to official fees and the eli gibility of sheriffs to re-election, re ported back from committee on township organization and referred to committee on counties.......... 245 in reference to official terms and fees. 84 in reference to opinions of supreme court judges...................... 174 in reference to order of business..... 453 in reference to order of signing con stitution..........;1861 in reference to organization of con vention........................... 4 in reference to pardoning power of Governor.....................1.51, 194 in reference to passage of bills over veto............................ 67, 213 in reference to passage of bills over veto, taken up and referred to com mittee on executive department... 88 in reference to passage of general and special laws by general assembly... 116 in reference to the passage of local or special laws in certain cases.....76, 127. in reference to payment of certain employes of convention...... 1189, 1208 in reference to pay of deceased and resigning members of convention. 987 in reference to payment of employes of convention..................... 92 in reference to pay of janitors....*~. 627 in reference to recess of convention, called up.......................... 826 in reference to the reference of amend ments to the constitution, etc., to committees................. 173, 176 in reference to re ference t r of constitu tiqin to appropriate committees.... 81 in reference to reference of report from committee on accounts and expenditures of convention, in re gard to expenses of convention....1700 in reference to the regulation and development of state railroads and canals.............................1476 in reference to releasing Illinois Cen tral railroad company from certain obligations......................72, 84 in reference to religious liberty......... ttv 179 in reference to removal of convention to Chicago......................... 321 in reference to removal of county seat s......................... 155, 281 in reference to removal of officers... 154 in reference to removal of state capi - tal............................... 679 in reference to repo(tts of standing committees....................... 258 in reference to right of appeal........11 76 in reference to right of soldiers to vote.............................. 100 INDEX. 89 RESOLUTION-Continued. in reference to Lake and Dearborn Parks.............................. 154 in reference to legal rights........... 85 in reference to legislative assembly.. 100 in reference to legislative assembly, reported back from committee on legislative department............ 141 in reference to levving of taxes...... 127 in reference to Ili-nitation of debate in committee of the whole........ 613 in reference to limitation of debate on report from committee. on mines and mineral interests in referen e to the protection of the lives of mi ners...... 274 i'm' t' a' t' 1 o'u''o.... f state in,le tedness 150 in i-clereijce to i.'i-Ooi"oii,e,s,oi railroad corporations in th 148 in reference is statei to location of nationa capital............................ 213 preamble and telegram in reference to location of nati(.)nal capital...... - 75 in referene,(-, to the maintenance of a state university.................... 193 in to Lhe management of prisons............................ 321 in refti-ence, to m4nagenient of state pen,.'tentiary...................... 679 in reference to in, nner of election of master in chancery...... 92, 100, 745 in reference to manner of'printing re ports from committees..........:.. 251 in reference to manner of submission of amended constitution to the peo ple................................ 135. in reference to members of county boards..........................:.155 in reference to memorial page in journal of convention............. 1634 in reference to minority representa tion........................ 72' in referen to monopolies...:.,.,.,.,.,., 321 in reference to Morning session. of convention.........:",., 702, 835, 1232 in reference to morning sessions of convention, called up....703, 852, 1233 in reference to the movable property of railroads, etc.................... 172 in reference to m(,vable property of railroads, reported back from com mittee on miscellaneous corpora tions and referred to committee on railroad corporations............ 210 in reference to names and meetings townships......................... 182 in reference to newspapers........... 615 in reference to number of newspa pers to be furnished to members of convention........................ 138 in reference to oath of office......... 7, 9 44, 49, 45, 47 RESOLUTION-Continved. in reference to rights and duties ofin dividuals and asroCiatIODS......... 1277 in reference to rights and privileges of the, people, et:c.................. 100 in reference to the rights of the peo PI e in regard to the internal govern ment of the estate.................. 281 in reference to rights of private cor por-,ttions. 67 in reference to rights p ivate cor porat,ions, called up and referred to CII)Mmittee on judiciary............ 88 in reference to right of suffrrge...... 100 127, 193, 736 in reference to rules of convention.. 9 in reference to sale of intoxicating liquor............................. 151 in reference to sale and redemption of land................................ 192 in reference to sale of property for debt............................... 615 in reference to salaries of public offi cers............................ 67, 100 in reference to salaries of state offi cials.............................. 282 in reference to se,,,retary'-s clerk...... 1211 in reference to sectarian appropria tions.............................. 85 in reference to separate schools for write and colored children......... 679 in reference to separate schools for white and colored children, called up and acted upon................. 703 in reference to separate submission of the question of female suffrage. 1308 in reference to sessions of conven tion.............................. 260 in reference to ship canal........... 1869 in reference to sovereign power of convention........................ 213 in reference to the sovereignty of the people............................ 113 in reference to speech making and vot ing on judiciary subject........ I.... 1061 in referedce to state, county and town appropriation and credit........... 180 in reference to state credit........... 76 in reference'to the state as defendant in courts of law and equity........ 175 in reference to state indebtedness.... 93 in reference to sta,-e indebtedness and revenue.. - - 72 in reference i'o's't'a'ie''bi'e'ne's's''for railroads........................... 72 in reference to state i-nilitia.......... 176 in reference to state and national goy er-timent........................... 98 in reference to stationery furd!shed to members of convention. resolu tion of Mr. Ross to modify 261 in reference to the, statute aW; o Illinois............................ 912 in reference to street railroads.... 151, 154 in reference to submission of consti tution............................. 1596 in reference to subscriptions to stock by counties, towns, etc............ 154 in reference to suffrage.............. 71 in reference to support of public in r,iitutions by the state............. 260 in reference to tenure and salary of officers, etc.... 211 in reference to te;l''o''n'y' ic'r'l'm''.I'D'ai's 72 in reference to time of coD sideration ofreport from committee on mis cellaneouscorporatious............ 345 in reference to titles and revision of laws.....'';.i.................... 116 in reference t own and county ap propriations, etc.................. 179 in reference to the trancfer of town - ships.............................. 192 in referen ce to " t wo m ill I I tax.... 97,175 in reference to uniform assessment of taxes..................... in reference to ves'ling of pardoning power................ 151, 260 in referen'c t Vf Messages......... 153 in reference to warehouse fra-,adlf.... 758 90~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ INDEX RESOLUTION-Continued. of instruction to committee on ac counts and expenditure, of conven tion, in reference to per diem of members and officers of conven tion.............................. 895 of instruction to committee on ac counts and expenditures of conven tion, in reference to postmaster of convention............................ 758 of instruction to committee on ac cocunts and expenditures oif conven tion, in reference to stationery fur nished to convention..............1416 of instruction, to committee on ac counts and expenditures of con vention, in reference to unnecessa ry employes of convention.........1178 of instruction to committee on banks and currency to amend constitu tion in reference to bank legisla tion................................ 211 of instruction to committee on bill of rights in reference to drainage...4.. 481 of instruction to committee on bill of rights in reference to drainage laws and private roads.................. 74 of i nst ruction to committee on bill of rights in reference to jury verdicts in civil cases.....................o,u 858 of instruction to committee on bill of rights in reference to preamble.... 262 of instruction to committee on bill of rights in reference to privileges of citizens in regard to food........... 260 of instruction to committee on bill of rights in reference to right of pris oneris' counsel in criminal trials.... 321 of instruction to committee on canal and canal lands in reference to Illi nois and Michigan canal......... 81, 83 ot instruction to committee on coun ties in reference to circuit clerk and recorder........................... 84 of instruction to committee on coun ties in reference to county bounda ries............................... 179 of instruction to committee on coun ties in reference to county seats.... 92 of instruction to committee on coun ties in reference to counties and county seats....................... 178 RESOLUTION-Continued. in reference to wording of amend. ments to constitution............. 98 of condolence. in reference to the ca lamnit~y at Richmond.............. 1537 of condolence, in reference to the death of Hon. H. W. Billings..... 1446 of condolence, in reference to the death-of Hon. Charles Emmc rsoni'..1334 of condolence, in reference to the death of I-on. A. G. Kirkpatrick..12,t8 of condolence, in reference to the death of Hon. W. H. Patterson.... 195 of inquiry, to Alexan-der Starne, trus tee, etc., and to Auditor of State, in reference to lands belongi,g to Jo el A. Matteson................... 334 of inquiry to Atidit:or of Public Ac counts, in reference to expenses of state penitentiary since 1867....... 178 of inquiry to Auditor of Public Ac counts, in reference to expenses of 25th al'd 26th general assemblies... 263 of inquiry to Auditor of State, in ref erenice to appropriations by general assembly.......................... 323 of inaqiiry to Auditor of State, in ref erence to assessed value of property in the state for the past four years. 127 of inquiry to Auditor of State, in r-ef erence to cost of registration for the years 1868 and 1869............ 261 of inquiry to Auditor of State, in ref erence to expenses of constitution al convention of 1862.............. 68 of inquiry to Auditor of State, in ref erence to expenses of general as sembly since 1852................. 68 of inquiry to Auditor of State, in ref erence to railroads................ 912 of inquiry to Auditor of State, in ref ereDce to state canal............... 236 of inquiry to Auditor of State, in ref erencee to state indebtedness....... 127 of inquiry to Auditor of State, in ref erence to township organization... 758 of inquiry to clerk of supreme court for third grand division of State of Illinois, in reference to reports of judges of circuit courts, in relation to amendments to the laws........ 98 of inquiry to county clerks in refer ence to railroads.................. 182 of inquiry to Governor of State, in reference to number of penitentiary convNicts pardoned during the past ten years...................... 157, 168 of inquiry to judges of supreme court in reference to certain reports of circuit judges...................... 323 of inquiry to Secretary of State, in reference to the amount of station ery furnished to convention........ 533 of inquiry to Secretary of State, in reference to committee rooms..282, 451 of inquiry to Secretary of State, in reference to expenses of two last sessions of General Assembly...... 91 of inquiry to State Secretary, Treasu rer and Auditor, in reference to ex penses of 25th and 26fth General As sembliers.......................... 429 of inquiry to Secretary of State} in reference to extra employyes................1022 of inquiry to Secretary of State, State Treasur er and Auditor, in reference to their services and fees................. 146 of inquiry to Secretary of State, in reference to State printing, etc.... 67 of inquiry to State Treasurer, in ref erence to salaries of circuit judges, for certain services rendered............... 98 of inquiry to Superintendent of Pub lic Instruction, in reference to school statistics.....................c 193 of inquiry to warden sof penitentiary, in reference to convicts pardoned during the past ten years................. 154 of instrucetion to) comm~ittee con ac eounts and expenditures, in reibr once to committee roomns................. 260 -of instruction to committee on at c ts and ex2pertditutoes of convenstion, ~ reference to cost of convention reporting and printing........,.......... 1649 -of instructions to e,mmnittee on ac counts and expenditures of conven-, tion, ill reference to further publica tion of debates.......................1190 of' iustructi~m to committee on ac counts and expenditures of conv-en tion, in reference to pay of chap lains.....a.......~ ~.....109 of instruction to committee on coun ties in reference to election of coun ty officers......................1 154 of instruction to committee on coun ties in reference to removal of coun ty seats........................... o 154 of instruction to committee on coun ties in reference to term of county officers............................ 193 of instruction to committee on educa tion in reference to election of school superintendent.......758 of instruction to committee on educa tion to amend constitution in refer ence to school system of state..... 179 of instruction to committee on elec toral and representative reform in reference to majority and minority representation................... 175 it s of instruction to committee on execu tive in reference to pardoning pow er of Governor..................... 98 of instruction to committee on execu tive in reference to term of state officers............................ 193 of instruction to committee on feder al relations, in reference to ratifica tion of the 15th amendmrnent....... 165 oc of instruction to committee on feder al relations, in reference to succes sion tax............................ 92 of instruction to committee on finance., in reference to abolishment of state board of equalization..... 615 of instruction to committee on finance, in reference to exemption from taxation..................... 192 of instruction to committee on finance, in reference to taxing lands of Illinois Central railroad........ 116 of instruction to committee on future amendments, in reference to form of oath of office of members of future conventions................193 of instruction to committee on fu ture amendments, in reference to future conventions...... ge.......... 78 of instruction to committee onfu ture amendments, in reference to mode of amending constitution... 139 INDEX. 90 RESOLUTION-Cuntinued. of instruction to committee on judi ciary in reference to abolishment of grand jury.................. 176, 262 of in struction to committee on judi ciary, in reference to abolishment of state board of equalization..... 212 of instruction to commttee on judi ciary, in reference to chancery busi ness.........................:1... 93 of instruction to Committee OD. Judi e-ia.ry, in reference to c,)iisideridg railroads as ei)minon carriers, etc.. 14S of instruction to committee on judi ciary, in reference to control of rail roads, in respect to rates of trans portation......................... 148 of instruct-!on to committee on judi ciary, in r fereiice to eminent do main in regard to railroads......... 487 Of idstructiou to committee on jndi ciary, in reference to establishment of congre.,iaiotial districts.......... 1921, of instruction to committee on j'udi ciary, in reference to the eptabli,,h ment of local courts..:11,111,1111, 7& of instruction to committee on judi ciary, in reference to future amend ments to constitution............. 94 of instruction to committee on judi ciary, in reference to Illinois Central railroad........................... of iiistructi(,n to committee on judi ciary, in refe-rence-to jurors and ver dicts in criminal trials............. 615, of instruction to committee on judi ciary, in reference to mechadies' liens.............................. 19& Of instruction to committee on judi ciary, in reference to presumptions of law or facts in state or corpora tioii proceedings.................. 212i of instruction to cotiimittee on judi ciary, in reference to prevention of bribery in connection with public affairs............................. 93 of instruction to committee on judi ciary, in reference to prosecuting attorney.......................... 211 of instruction to committee on judlr clary, in reference to railroad fare-,q. 84 of instruction to committee on judi ciary, in reference to railroad tar iffs................................ 192 of instruction to committee on judi ciary, in reference to revision of state laws....................... 194 of instruction to committee on judi ciary, in reference to rules of evi dence.......................... 78, 858 of instruction to committee on judi ciary, in reference to supreme court 212 of instruction to commitee on judi ciary, in reference to taxing lands of Illinois Central Railroad in cer tain cases.......................... 116 of instruction to committee on judi ciary, in reference to uniformity of laws throughout the state......... 116 of instruction to committee on judi ciary, to amend CODStiLUtiOn in ref erence to court of common I)leas, etc................................ 150 of instruction to committee on j udi clary, to amend constitution in ref erence to sheriffs.................. 367 of instruction to committee on judi cial circuits, in reference to judicial divisions of state.................. 1P,77 of instruction to committee on judi cial circuits, to aine-nd constitution in reference to judicial crcuits 212 of instruction to coinaiittee on legii lative department, in reference to amalgamation.................... 211 of ii3str uction to committee on legis lative department, in reference, to compensation of members of the legislature and future conventions. 79 of instruction to committee on legis. lative department, in reference to county representation.............. 82 of instruction to committee on legis lative department, in reference to future creation of offices by the legislature........................ 191 of instruction to committee on legis lative department. in reference to general assembly................. 211 of instruction to committee on I(-gis lative, department, in reference to ,immigration of coored4people....1677' INDEX. 91 RESOLUTION-Continueed. of instruction to committee on print ing and binding in reference to cost of printing new constitution....... 704 of instruction to committee on print ing anid binding in reference to the establishment of a state printing office.............................. 745 of instruction to committee on print ing and binding in reference to fur lishinDg state maps to convention -.. 192 of instruction to committee on print ing and binding in reference to manuals.......................... 137 RESOLUTION-Continue d. of instruction to committee on roads and internal navigation, in refer ence to private roads............... 135 of instruction to committee on schedule, in reference to man n er of submission of new constitution.... 192 of instruction to committee on schedule, in reference to separate submission of articles of co nst it u tion............................... 1796 of instruction to committee on state, county and municipal indebtedness, in reference to compensation of county officers.................... 177 of instruction to committee on state institutions and public buildings, in reference to appointment of board of public charities.......... 84 of instruction to committee on town ship organization, in reference to boards of supervisors.............. 155 of instruction to several committees, in reference to consideration of amendments to constitution....... 81 of instruction to Auditor of State, in reference to Superintendent of Pub lic Instruction.................... 1389 of instruction to doorkeeper, in ref erence to ink...................... 429 of instruction to postmaster of con vention............... 1863 of instruction to Secretary of State, in reference to articles furnished to convention........................ 260 of instruction to Secretary of State and Auditor of Public Accounts, in reference to convention accounts..1230 of instruction to Secretary of State, in reference to publication of jour nal of convention................. 213 of instruction to Superintendent of Public Instruction, in reference to school statistics................... 322 of instruction to treasurers of state normal school and industrial uni versity, in reference to Superintend ent ot' Public Instruction.......... 1389 of thanks to committee on revision and adjustment................... 1869 of thanks to Hon. Elliott Anthony.. 564 of thanks to president of convention.1845 of thanks to president, pro teen...... 56 of thanks to secretaries of conven tion............................... 1845 of thanks to Springfield Journal and Register........................... 1860 of thanks to State officers........... 1861 on the subject of Washington's birth day.............................. 782 on the subject of Washington's birth day, called up..................... 793 to adopt report of committee on printing and binding, in reference to printing and binding convention debates........................... 124 of instructi on to committee on print ing and binding in reference to ofprinting debates in German........i 213 of instruction to committee on rail road corporations in reference to Illinois Central railroad.......... 78 of instruction to committee on rail road corporations to amend consti tution in reference to obligations of Illinois Central railroad............aedett 176 of instruction to committee on rev enue in reference to exemption from taxation.......................... 211 of instruction to committee on rev enue in reference to the exemption of certain lands from taxation......o 481 of instruction to committee on rev enue in reference to Illinois Central ra il road........................... 193 of instruction to committee on rev enue in reference to taxation of church property used for other than religious purposes............ 213 of instruction to committee on rev enue in reference to tax titles..... 260 of instruction to committee on rev enue to amend constitution in ref erence to taxation of telegraph stock, etc......................... 26.3 of instruction to committee on re vision and adjustment in reference to article on canal and canal lands.............................. 1833 of instruction to committee on revis ion and adjustment, in reference to article on railroad corporations....1723 of instruction to committee on revis ion and adjustment, in reference to article on railroad corporations, called up and amended............ 1731 of instruction to committee on revis ion and adjustment, in reference to article on warehouses..............19, 1707 of instruction to committee on revis ion and adjustment, in reference to comp aring enrolled constitution.. 1859 of instruction to committee on revis ion and adjustmecnt, in reference to election of masters In chancery.... 1789 of instruction to committee on revis ion and adjustment, in reference to election of supreme court jitdges..1678 of instruction to committee on revis ion and adjustment, in reference to election of supreme and additional circuit courtjudges................ 1800 of instruction to committee on revis ion and adjustment, in reference to female suffti ag e....................1 1477 of instruction to committee on revis ion and adjustment, in reference to immigration of colored peoplee....1649 of instruction to committee on revis ion and adjustment, in reference to proposition of Mr. Browning in re gard to railroad and municipal in debtedness of Quiney, Ill..........1814 of instruction to committee on revis ion and adjustment, in reference to section 11 of judiciary article...... 1763 of instruction to committee on revis ion and adjustment, in reference to section 6 of article on right of suf frage...........................,. 1662 of instruction to committee on revis ion and adjustment, in reference to section 6 of article on right of suf frage, called up and debated on...1725 1726 RESOLUTION-Continv ed. of instruction to committee on legis lative department, in reference to imposition by railroad and other corporations.................... 84 of instruction to committee on legis lative department, in reference to number of members of general as sembly............................ 83 of instruction to committee on legis lative department, in reference to property exempted from execution. 180 of instruction to committee on legis lative department, in reference to property of married women....... 177 of instruction to committee on legis lalive department, in reference to publication of laws................ 88 of instruction to committee on legis lative department, in reference to punishment for murder........... 282 of instruction to committee on legis lative department, in reference to quorums.......................... 172 of instruction to committee on legis lative department, in reference to salaries of state officials........... 260 of instruction to committee on legis lative department, in reference to sessions of general assembly and compensation of members........ 88 of instruction to committee on legis lative department, in reference to special and private acts -of incorpo ration...................... 172 of instruction to committee on legis lative department, in reference to special legislation................. 212 of instruction to committee on legis lative department, in reference to state senators, representatives and census............................ 178 of instruction to committee on man ufactures and agriculture, in ref erence to restriction of landed es tate................................ 1104 of instruction to committee on mnili tary affairs, in reference to estab lishment of a military school...... 194 of instruction to committee on mis cellaneous subjects, in reference to bribery on the part of public offi cers.............................. 182 of instruction to committee on mis laneous subjects, in reference to bribery on the part of public offl cers, reported back................ 857 of instruction to committee on mis cellaneous subjects, in reference to the construction of the word "' office,"......................... 782 of instruction to committee on mis cellaneous subjects, in reference to corporate limits of towns.......... 211 of instruction to committee on mis cellaneous subjects, in reference to corporate limits of towns and cities, reported back and referred to com mittee on municipal corporations. 858 of instruction to committee on mis cellanevus subjiects, in reference to engrossing clerk.................................. 78 of instruction to committee on mis cellaneous subjects, in reference to investment of funds of insurance companies.................*....<. 193 of instruction to committee on mis cellaneous subjects, in reference to investmenlt of funds of insurancee companies, reported back from committee oIn miscellaneous sub jects....... -........ 257 of instruction to committee on miscel laneous subjects in reference to railroad and warehouse frauds.................. 532 of instruction to committee on mis cellaneous subjects in reference to widows-and orphans....................... 510 of instruction to committee ton peni tentiary and reformatory institu tioIIs in reference to the establish ment. of lo~cal penitentiaries................... 177 of instruction to committee on peni tenltiary and reformatory institu -tions in reference to mechanical la bor in state penitentiary.....................192 of instruction to committee on peni tentiary and reformatory institu tions in relerence to state peniten ti.ary. *...,...........v......1277 of instruction to committee on print ing and binding in reference to cost o ovninprinting............... 5 *, 2 1 —24 to adopt rule 49 in reference to the effect of tabling amendments...... 184 to adopt rule 50, limiting speeches... 260 to allow additional copies of debates to members of convention......... 182 to amend article Eecond of constitu tion, in reference to powers of State government....................... 192 to amend constitution, in reference to the assessment of taxes for sidewalk purposes, etc...................... 212 to amend constitution in reference to eligibility to office of legal vo ters............................... 212 to amend constitution in reference to eminent domain................... 180 to amend constitution in reference to eminent domain, reported back from committee on roads and inter nal navigation.................... 257 to amend constitution in reference to extra compensation of public offi cers............................... 154 to amend constitution in reference to free schools....................... 212; to amend constitution in reference to Illinois Central 7 per cent. tax...... 19& to amend constitution in reference to limitation of entail................ 194 to amend constitution in referenceeto non-disqualification of witnesses on account of religious belief........ 176 to amend constitution in reference to pardoning power of Governor..... 193 to amend constitution in reference to punishment for dueling....... A...15 of instruction to committee on right of suffage, in reference to female suffrage-..aco....... o I.. 532 bf instruction to committee on right of suffrage, in reference to submis sion of female suffrage proposi tion.............................. 532 INDEX. 91 INDEX. RESOLUTION-Continued. ] to amend constitution in reference to removal of county seats............ 174 to amend constitu tion in reference to term of Governor.......... 194 to amend rule 44 in regard to order of business........................... 169 to amend rule 44 in regard to order of business, called up and referred to committee on rules................ 173 to appoint committee on accounts and expenditures of convention... 92 to appoint committee on mines and mineral interests............. 81, 84, 85 to appoint committee to ascertain the appropriations of money made by General Assembly since 1862.... 80 to appoint committee to prepare ad dress to the people of the State....1708 to appoint committee to prepare rules for convention.................... 51 to appoint committee to receive Gen. Sheridan.......................... 1403 to appoint Ely, Burham and Bartlett official stenographers to conven tion.......................... 67 to attend charity ball................ 182 to close convention with prayer..;..1863 to discontinue the printing of prayers offered in convention.............. 169 to elect commissioner of agriculture and statistics...................... 212 to employ temporary enrolling clerk. 138 to establish a bureau of statistics.... 213 to establish bureau of statistics, re ported back from committee on miscellaneous subjects............ 257 to furnish additional postage stamps to convention..................... 180 to furnish elective officers of conven tion with newspapers.............. 127 to furnish members of convention with daily papers.................. 180 to furnish postage stamps to secreta ry of convention,(2)...............1231 to grant use of hall of representatives for Jecture...................... 127 to ingite state officers to be present at administration of oath of office.. 45 to modify resolution in reference to stationery furnished to members of convention........................ 261 to postpone further consideration of ,section 39 of report from committee on judiciary......................1180 to postpone special order in reference to the consideration of report from committee on right of suffrage..... 560 to print additional copies of report from committee on state, county and municipal indebtedness........ 482 to print certain reports and articles.. 1231 to print order of president appointing additional committees............. 100 to print proposed amendments to constitution, resolution of Mr. Cameron to rescind................ 116 to print report from Auditor of State in reference to township organiza tion...............................1104 to print United States and state con stitutions, e t c........... 72 to prohibit school officers from pub lishing school books, etc........ 193 to purchase 200 copies of manual.... 145 to refer accounts of convention to committee on accounts and ex penditures of convention...678 to refer report from committee' on investigation on accounts of Secre tary of State to the Governor...1865 to refund value of postage stamps.. 346 to refuse use of hall of representa t ives for lectures..........859 to rescind resolution to print pro posed amendments to constitution. 116 to rescind resolution of inquiry to Auditor of State, in reference to expenses of general assembly since 1862, and of constitutional c~onven tion of 1862................,...... 80 OF MB. ABBOTT — in reference lto extension of corporate limnits.............,.....*.......... 679 mn reference to formation of new counties..............93 of instruction to committee on judi ciary in reference to jurors and ver dicts in criminal trials ~X......* 615 of instruction to committee on judi ciary, in reference to rules of evi dence......;*.......,.. 858 OF MR. ALLEN, OF ALEXANDER in reference to establishment of State University........................ 116 in reference to oath of offlice........ 9 of instruction to committee on legis lative department, in reference to county representation............. 82 to grant use of hall of representatives for lecture........................ 127 OF MR. ARCHER in reference to afternoon sessions of convention........................ 258 in reference to county courts and their Jurisdiction.................. 67 in reference to county courts and their jurisdiction, taken up and re ferred to judiciary committee...... 88 in reference to passage of bills over veto.............................. 67 in reference to passage of bills over veto, taken up and referred to com mittee on executive department... 88 in reference to printing certain arti cles of the constitution............ 1129 in reference to the sovereignty of the people............................ 113 of inquiry to Secretary of State, in reference to convicts pardoned du ring the past ten years............ 157 of inquiry to warden of penitentiary, in reference to convicts pardoned during the past ten years........ 154 of instruction to committee on exec utive, in reference to pardoning power of Governor................ 98 of instruction to committee on judici ary in reference to rules of evidence 78 of instruction to committee on legis tive department in reference to publication of laws................ 88 of instruction to committee on legis lative department, to amend con stitution in reference to property of married women................... 177 OF MR. ALLEN, OF CRAWFORD authorizing committee on legislative department to employ clerk.........113 authorizing employment of clerks by committees.................... 322 in reference to afternoon sessions of convention........................ 261 in reference to manner of printing re ports from committees............ 251 in reference to printing veto mes sages.............................. 151 in reference to reference of constitti tion to appropriate committees.... 81 of instruction to committee on reve nue, in reference to taxation of church property used for other than religious purposes................. 213 of instruction to committee on reve nue to amend constitution in refer ence to taxation ot telegraph stock, etc................................ 263 to appoint committee to prepare rules for convention..................... 51 OF MR. ANDERSON in reference to further consideration of report from committee on judi ciary..............................1087 of inquiry to Secretary of State, in reference to amount of stationery furnished to convention........... 533 of instruction to committee on ac counts and expenditures of conven tion, in reference to further publi cation of debates..................1190 of instruction to committee on legis lative department, in reference to future creation of offices by the legislature........................ 191 OF MR. ATKINS in reference to eminent domain...... 858 in reference to granting leave of ab sence.............................. 859 in reference to two mill tax......... 175 of inquiry to clerk of supreme court for third grand division of State of Illinois, in reference to reports of judges of circuit courts, in relation to the laws........................ 98 of inquiry to judges of supreme court, in reference to certain re ports of circuit judges............. 393 of inquiry to State Treasurer,'in ref erence to salaries of circuit judges for certain services rendered....... 98 of instruction to committee on bill of rights, in reference to drainage.... 481 of instruction to committee on bill of rights, in reference to drainage laws and private roads............ 74 of instruction to committee on bill of rights, in reference to privilege of citizens in regard to food........... 260 of instruction to committee on legis lative department, in reference to amalgamation..................... 211 of instruction to committee on legis lative department in reference to salaries of State officials........... 260 of instruction to committee on rail road corporations, to amend consti tution in reference to obligations of Illinois Central railroad........... 176 OF MR. ANTHONY authorizing doorkeeper to procure necessary articles................ 81 directing Secretary of State to furnish official reporters with necessary materials......................72, 81 in reference to city mayors, their powers and duties................. 154 in reference to common schools...... 965 in reference to convention journal... 1845 in reference to drawing of seats..... 28 in reference to election of delegate to convention in place of Hon. Wm. H. Patterson, deceased............ 208 in reference to election of town and city officers, etc................... 154 in reference to establishment of a bu reau of agriculture, etc............ 153 in reference to general and special laws of cities...................... 154 in reference to general and special taxes i c.................. I.... 154 in reference to Lake and Dearborn parks............................. 154 in reference to location of offices of railroad corporations in this state.. 148 in reference to order of signing consti tutio n............................1861 in reference to removal of officers... 154 in reference to salaries of public offi cers............................... 67 in reference to state and national governments...................... 98 in reference to street railroads....... 1554 in reference to subscriptions to stocik by counties, towns, etc............ 154 o in reference to salary of officers, tc. 211 in reference to use of hall of represen tatives for lectures................1416 of inquiry to Alexander Starne, trus tee, etc., to Auditor of State, in ref erence to lands belonging to Joel A. Matteson...................... 334 of inquiry to Auditor of State, in r reference to railroads............. 912 of thanks to state officers...........1861 to print United States and state con stitutions, etc..................... 72 92 RESOLUTION-Continued. ESOLUTION-Continued. OF MR. BAywv in reference to divorces.............. 91 in reference to the granting of fran,chises in certain cases.............. 654 in reference to pay of policemen of convention........................ 1202 in reference to preamble............ 154 in reference to right of suffrage...... 100 of instruction to commuaittee on counties, in reference to election of county officers.................... 154 of instruction to committee on coun ties, in reference to, removal of county seats....................... 154 of instruction to committee on judi ciary, in reference to abolishment of rand jury.................... 176 of instruction to committee on mis cellaneo-as subjects, in reference to widows and orphans............... 510 O.v MR. Bim,-TTAMIN in reference to contracts, etc........ 965 of instruction to committee on elec toral and representative reform, in reference to majority and minority representation.................... 175 to amend article second of constitu tion in reference to powers of State government.......... Al...... -.... 192 INDEX. RESOLUTION-Continued. in reference to use of hall of repre sentatives for lecture.............. 345 of instruction to committOee on judi cial circuits, in reference to judicial division of state................. 1277 OF MR. BOWMAN in reference to the encouragement of learning........................... 211 in reference to payment of members. and officers of convention..................... 192 OF MR. CAMERON inviting Gen. Sheridan and staff to visit convention...................1403 limiting speeches....................1596 in referenee to 15th amendment...... 174 in reference to present system of numbering ballots................. 98 in reference to the transfer of town ships.............................. 192 of instruction to committee on ac counts and expenditures of conven tion, in reference to postmaster of convention......................., 758 to appoint committee on mines and to mineral interests................. 81. 85 to appoint committee to receive Gen.' Sheridan.............................1403 to rescind resolution to print propos ed amendments to constitution.... 116 O n MR. COOLBAUGH in reference to election of perma nent officers of convention........ 49 in reference to limitation of state in debtedness........................ 150 of instruction to committee on rev enue in reference to exemption from taxation..................... 211 to discontinue printing of prayers offered in convention.............. 169 OF MR. BROMWELL in reference to cleaning of hall during recess of convention...............1 1210 in reference to extra employes of con vention...........................1.012 in reference to furnishing newspapers to members of convention......... 132 in reference to furnishing stationery to convention..................... 66 in reference to memorial page in journal of convention.............. 1634 in reference to right of appeal........ 76 in reference to salaries of state offi cials............................... 282 in reference to ship canal............ 1869 of instruction to committee on judi ciary in reference to eminent do main in regard to railroads........ 487 of instruction to committee on judi ciary in reference to uniformity of laws throughout the state......... 116 of instruction to committee on legis lature in reference to imposition by railroads and other corporations... 84 of instruction to committee on legis. lature in reference to quorums..... 172 OF MR. CARY in reference to employing additional clerical force..................... 70 in reference to employing engrossing cl erk.............................. 77 in reference to evening sessions of convention........................ 1087 in reference to se cta rian appropria tions.............................. 85 of inquiry to Governor of State in reference to numberlof penitentiary convicts pardoned during past ten yearse............................ 168 of inquiry to Secretary of State, Treasurer and Auditor, in reference to expenses of 25th and 26th gener al assemblie s...................... 429 of instruction to committee on print ig and binding in reference to anuals.......................... 137 to postpone further consideration of section 39, of report from commit tee on judiciary................... o110 Oi MR. BROWN in reference to adjournment sine die of convention...................... 9_4( of instruction to committee on peni tentiary and reformatory institu tions in reference to mechanical la bor in state penitentiary........... [192 OF MR. CROSS in reference to the cost of committee rooms............................. 510 in reference to furnishing postage stamps to members of convention.1320 in reference to furnishing state maps to convention..................... 262 in reference to spe ech making and voting on judiciary subject.......1061 of instruction to committee on ac counts and expenditures of con vention, in reference to unnecessa ry employes of convention........ 1178 of instruction to committee on judici ary, in reference to abolishment of grand juries....................... 262 of instruction to committee on judi ciary, in reference to prosecuting attorneys.......................... 211 of instruction to committee on legis, lative department, in reference to General Assembly................. 211 of instruction to committee on rev enue, in reference to the exemption of certain lands from taxation..... 481 OF MR. CHURCH — in reference to consideration of re ports of committees..................... 727 in reference to consideration of re ports of committees in convention. 702 in reference to consideration of re ports of committees, called up and referred to committee on rules.... 745 In reference to drains................ 262 in reference to election of delegate to convention-in place of Hon. W. I. Patterson, deceased............ 198 r in reference to further amendments to constitution....................... 1866 in reference to morning sessions of convention........................... 1232 in reference to morning sessions of convention, called up..........pe... 1233 in reference to oath of office......... 7 in reference to the state as defend ant in courts of law and equity.... 175 of instruction to committee on judici ary, in reference to control of rail roads in respect to rates of trans portation......................... 148 of instruction to committee on judi ciary, in reference to Illinois Cen tral railroad....................... 80 of instruction to committee on re vision and adjustment, in reference to article on railroad corporations.1723 of instruction to committee on revis ion and adjustment, in reference to article on railroad corporations, called up and amended.............isrci 1731 to adopt rule 49, in reference to the effect of tabling amendments...... 184 OF MR. BRYAN in reference to adjournment, sine die, of convention........................1859 in reference to circuit court litigation 134 in reference to c ons idering railroad corporations as individual s........ 150 in reference to election and compen sation of state officers............. 83 in reference to future constitutional conventions...................... 135 in reference to manner of submission of amended constitution to the people............................ 135 in reference to order of business.... 453 in reference to support of public in stitutions by the state............. 260 in reference to use of hall of repre sentatives for lecture.............. 1608 of instruction to committee on mis cellaneous subjects, in reference to corporate limits of towns and cities 211 of instruction to committee on mis cellaneous subjects, in reference to corporate limits of towns and cities, reported baek, and referred to committee on miscellaneous cor porations......................... 858 OF MR. CUMMINGS in reference to imprisonment for debt.............................. 334 in reference to monopolies........... 321 in reference to oath to be taken by members of convention............ 590 in reference to the rights of the peo - ple, in regard to the internal gov ernment of the State.............. 281 of inquiry to Secretary of State, in reference to committee rooms 1..... 41 of instruction to committee on ac counts and expenditures of conven tion, in reference to stationery fur nished to convention......1....... 416 of instruction to committee on coun ties in reference to counties and county seats....................... 178 of instruction to committee on finance, in reference to abolishment of state board of equalization..... 615 of instruction to committee on finance, in reference to exemption from taxation..................... 192 of instruction to committee on judi ciary, in reference to railroad tar iffs............................... 192 of instruction to committee on print ing and binding, in reference to cost of convention printing........ 532 of instruction to committee on right of suffrage, in reference to female suffrage.............................b of instruction to committee on right of suffrage, in reference to the sub mission f femalle- suffrage proposi tion........................ 532 of thanks to secretaries of conven tion..............................1845 OF MR. BUXTON in reference to control of school funds............................. 127 in reference to levying of taxes...... 127 in reference to publication and distri bution of proceedings of conven tion. 62 in reference to the rights and duties of individuals and associations....1277 in reference to the separate submis sion of the question of female suf frage............................1308 in reference to uniform assessment of taxes........................,... 127 OF MRn CODY-l authorizing employment of clerk by committee on revision and adjust ment.............................1393 requesting appointment of additional members of committee on revision and adjustment....................1324 in reference to committee room ofju diciary committee..................... 988 in reference to compensation for en rolling constitution................ 1861 93 RESOLUTION-Continued. OF MR. BILLINGS of instruction to judiciary committee in reference to the establishment of local courts........................ 78 RESOLUTION-Cont-inued. - in reference to furnishing additional newspapers to members of conven tion................... .. - 134 in reference to titles and revision of laws............................... 116 Olr MR. CRA-IG in reference to election of delegate to convention in place of Hon. A. G. Kirkpatrick....................... 1231 in refrence to members of county ofIboards................. 155 'ondolene in rence to the death of [Ion. A. G. Kirkpatrick...122.8 of instruction to committee on banks and currency to amend constitu tion in reference to bank legisla tion............................... 211 of instruction to committee on judi ciary in reference to chancery busi toness............................... 93 . furnish members of convention with daily papers.................. 180 OF MR. BROWNING in reference to adjournment..... 191, 615 In reference to afternoon sessions of convention........................ 282 in reference to divorces.............. 128 in reference to the hour of adjourn ment of convention:.............. 141 in reference to organization of con. vention........................... 4 94. INDEX. RESOLUTION-Contintuel. in reference to -closing hall on Sun day.......................... - 484 in reference to use of intoxicating liquor by state officia ls............. 192 of instruction to committee on ac counts and expenditures in refer ence to committee rooms.......... 2 60 of instruction to committee on fu ture amendments in reference to mode of amending the constitu tion............................... 139 of instruction to committee on legis lature in reference to number of members of general assembly...... 83 OF MR. GOODELL in reference to buncombe............1758 in reference to legal rights 85.......... 85 in reference to use of hall of represen tatives for lecture 798 of condolence on the death of Hon. W. II. Patterson................. 195 of instruction to committee on blll of rights in reference to pream ble............................... 262 RESOLUTION-Continued. of instruction to committee on legis lative department in reference to immigration of colored people...1677 of instruction to committee-on man,ufactures and agriculture, in l efer ence to restriction of landed estate.1104 of instruction to committee on print ing and binding, in refer e nce to furnishing State maps to conven tion.............................. 192 of instruction to committee on revis ion and adjustment, in reference to immigration of colored people.... 1649 to appoint committee to ascertain the appropriations of money made by General Assembly since 1862....... 80 to elect commisioners of agriculture and statistics...................... 212 to furnish additional postage stamps to convention..................... 180 OF MR. GOODHUE of inquiry to Secretary of State, State Treasurer and Auditor, in refer ence to their services and fees..... 146 of instruction to committee on canal and canal lands in reference to Illi nois and Michigan canal.........81, 83 of instruction to committee on revis ion and adjustment in reference to female suffrage.................. 1477 of instruction to committee on revis ion and adjustment in reference to section 6 of article on right of suf frage............................. 1662 of instruction to committee on revis ion and adjustment in reference to section 6 of article on right of suf frage, called up and debated on...1725 1726 OF MR. HANNAI in reference to election of delegate to convention in place of Hon. B. W. Henry............................1031 in reference to minority representa tion............................... 72 in reference to printing debates...... 90 of inquiry to Secretary of State, in reference to State printing, etc.... 67 of instruction to committee on ac counts and expenditures of con vention, in reference to pay of chaplains......................... 1029 OF MR. HAINES, OF COOK prohibiting railroad consolidation... 212 OF MR. ELLIS in reference to amendments to na tional constitution................ 98 preamble and telegram in reference to location of national capital..... 75 in reference to the removal of county seats.............................. 281 of instruction to committee on legis lature., in reference to sessions of general assembly, and compensa tion of members of................ 83 of instruction to committee on reve nue, in reference to articles fur nished to members of convention.. 260 of instruction. to Secretary of State, in reference to articles furnished to members of convention........... 260 to allow additional copies of debates to members of convention......... 182 OF MR. HAlRT in reference to capital stock of rail roads............................. 321 in reference to power of supreme court.............................. 321 OF MR. HAINES, OF LaxR — in commemoration of the battle of New Orleans...................... 128 in reference to adjournment, sine die, of convention.....................1649 in reference to the appropriation of private property for public use, etc. 155 in reference to colored clergymen.... 859 in reference to county representation. 116 in reference to eminent domain...... 321 in reference to executive vetoes...... 90 in reference to formation of new counties............................ 18C in reference to furnishing postage stamps to members of convention. 91 344 in reference to incorporation of towns............................. 155s in reference to number of newspa pers to be furnished to members of convention........................ b... 138 in reference to oath of office..... 44, 49 in reference to official terms a nd rees. 84 in reference to payment of c ertain employes of convention............1208 in reference toper diem of members of convention during recess.......... 345 in reference to publication of local and general laws.................. 116 in reference to recess of convention..1 866 in reference to release of the Illinois Central railroad company from cer tain obligations................... 84 in reference to the removal of county seats.............................. 155 in reference to rightiof suffrage — 1...... 127 in reference to salaries of public offi cers.............................. 100 in reference to sale and redemption of land............................ 192 in reference to statute laws of Illinois 912 in reference to submission of constitu tion...............................1596 in reference to use of supreme court library........................78... 2 in reference to veto messages........ 153 of instruction to committee on feder al relations, in reference to ratifica tion of the 15th amendment..... 165 of instruction to committee on judi ciary, in reference to considering railroads as common carriers, etc.. 148 OF MR. EATb in reference to convention printing..1207 in reference to the formation of new counties........................... 197 in reference to printing debates....: 90 in reference to publication and distri bution of proceedings of conven tion............... 64 in reference to reference of report from committee on accounts and expenditures of convention, in re gard to expenses of convention.... 1790 of instruction to committee on mis cellaneous subjects in reference to bribery on the part of public offi cers........................ 182 of instruction to committee on mis cellaneous subjects in reference to bribery on the part of public offi cers, reported back................ 857 of instruction to committee on revis ion and adjustment in reference to article on canal and canal lands....1833, of instruction to committee on revis ion and adjustment in reference to election ot supreme and additional circuit court judges............... 1800, to adopt report of committee on printing and binding............... 124 to appoint committee on accounts and expenditures ot coDvention.... 92 to postpone special order in reference to consideration of report from committee on right of suffrage..... 560 INDEX. 94 RESOLUTION-Continued. OiF MR. Dr,,M]NT in reference to use of hall of represen tatives for lectur 1392 ofinquiry to Auditor of Public Ac counts, in reference to expenses of 25th and 26th gederal assemblies... 263 of inquiry to Secretary of State, in reference to expenses of two last Sessions of General Assembly...... 91 of instruction to committee on finance, in reference to taxing lands of Illinois Central railroad........ 116 OF MR. ELDREDGE in reference to appropriation of pri I vate property for public use....... 93 in reference, to election of members of the house of representatives, etc.. 151 in reference to eminent domain...... 713 in reference to fees of county clerks in certain cases.................... 262 in reference to formation of new counties. 262 in to pub c highways..... 176 in reference to public highways, re ported back from committee on roads and internal Davigation 257 in reference to the reference of amendments to constitution, etc., to committees................. 173, 176 in reference to street railroads....... 151 of instruction to committee on judi ciary, in reference to railroad fares. 84 of instruction to committee on judi ciary, in reference to revision of state laws........................ 194 of instruction to committee on peni tentiary and reformatory inrtitu tions, in reference to the establish ment of local penitentiaries......... 177 O]Lr MR. HNKI[N in reference to bompenration for pri vate property appropriated for public use......................... 192 in reference to compedsatioii for pri vate property appropriated for pub lic use, reported back from commit tee on roads and internal naviga tion. 257 ............................. of instruction to judiciary committee, in reference to taxing lands of III-. Central railroad in certain cases... 116 OF MR. HARwoOD of condolence, in reference to the death of Ron. Charles Emmerson..1334 of instruction to committee on legis lative department, in reference to stateseiaators, representatives and census............................. 17& OF MR. ENGLIS]AC instructll)g secretar'y of convention to deliver to committee on finance, certain letters received from c-oun-' ty clerks, in reference to railroads 260 in reference to adjournment...... 86, 987 1 reference to distribution of com mittee reports..................... 308 in reference to female and negro suf frage.............................. 212 in r. —terence to per them during recess of convention...................... 1860 in relred ce to preparation of address to'the people of the state.......... 1677 in reference to recess of convention.. 726 in reference to recess of convention, called up.......................... 826 of iiaq'uiry to county clerks in refer ence to rail-roads................... 182 OF MR. Fox in reference to bill of rights.......... 192 in referenct to election of permanent officers of convention.............. 50 in r,iei-etice to payment of ojmcers and members of convention...... 88 of inquiry to Auditor of State, in ref erence',o expeinses of general as semblies since 1862................ 68 of instruction to committee on sched ule in reference t o manner of sub mission of new constitution.....,.. 192 of i7,,-!-riletion to postmaster of con vent'ion............................ 1863 OF MR. HA.YIZS in reference to article on county and city indebtedness.........p......... 1190, OF MR. ULLISP,. in reference to carpet for_tate arf- senal........................I 98 L — IN EX t...5d RESOLUTION-Continued. in reference to fees of county offi ce rs............................... 174 in reference to judicial division of the state..............................1010 in reference to opinions of supreme court judges....................... 174 of instruction to committee on revis ion and adjustment in reference to the election of supreme court judges.............................1678 to appoint Messrs. Ely, Burnham and Bartlett official stenographers to convention........................ 67 to furnish secretary of convention with postage stamps.......2I......1?1s to print certain reports and articles..1231 RESOLUTION-Continued. in reference to furnishing additional postage stamps to members of con ventiovn.................6........... 481 in reference to na mes and meetings of townships.............6............ 182 in reference to oath of office......... 47 in reference to ratio of representa tion............................... 91 in reference to reports of standing committees....................... 258 of inquiry to Auditor of State, in ref erence to township organization... 758 of instruction to committee on legis lative department, in reference to general and special laws........... 98 of instruction to committee on legis lative department, in reference to special legislation................. 212 of instruction to committee on revis ion and adjustment, in reference to propositton of Mr. Browning in re gard to railroad and municipal in debtedness of Quincy, Ill.......... 1814 of instruction to committee on state institutions and public buildings, in reference to appointment of board of public charities.......... 84 to print report from Auditor of State in reference to township organiza tion.............................. 1104 0O MR. MERRIAHM in reference to additional pay to por ters.........................1869 in reference to the maintenance of a state university................... 193 in reference to use of hall of repre sentatives for lecture.............. 615 of inquiry to Auditor of State, in ref erence to expenses of constitution al convention of 1862.............. 68 of instruction to committee on state, county and municipal indebted ness, in reference to compensation of public officers.................. 177 OF MR. MOORE-i in reference to fees of county officers 180 in reference to unnecessary employes of convention.....................1230 of inquiry to Secretary of State, in reference to extra employes.......1022 of inquiry to Superintendent of Pub* lie Instruction, in reference to school statistics................... 193 of instruction to Auditor of State, in reference to Superintendent of Public Instruction.............. 1389 of instruction to committee on feder al relations, in reference to succes s ion tax........................... 92 of instruction to Secretary of State and Auditor of Public Accounts, in reference to convention accounts..1230 of instruction to treasurers of state normal school and industrial uni versity, in reference to Superintend ent of Public Instruction.......... 1389 OF MRe. KIN m - in reference to appointment of jani tor to senate chamber............. 1234 in reference to convention postage..1763 in reference to movable property of railroads, etc.................... 172 in reference to movable property of railroads, reported back from com mittee on miscellaneous corpora tions, and referred to committee on railroad corporations.............. 210 in reference to per diem of officers and members of convention....... 1425 in reference to proposals for conven tion printing..................... 67 in reference to publication of consti tution and address................1845 of instruction to committee on judi ciary, in reference to presumptions of law or fact in state or corpora tion proceedings.................. 212 of instruction to committee on judi ciary, in reference to supreme court 212 of thanks to Hon. Elliott Anthony.. 564 to amend rule 44, in regard to order of business...................... 169 to amend rule 44, in regard to order of business, called up and referred to committee on rules............. 173 to refer accounts of convention to committee on accounts and expen ditures of convention.............. 678 OF MR. NEECnE in reference to payment of employes of convention..................... 93 ot instruction to committee on coun ties in reference to circuit clerk and recorder........................8 84 of instruction to committee on revi sion and adjustment, in reference to section 11 of judiciary article...1768 OF MR. KIRKPATRICK in reference to the employment of clerks by standing committees..... 91 OF MR. PARKER in reference to the abatement of taxes on real estate...............7 tno...... 726 in reference to future revision of con stitution.......................... 176 in reference to state militia.........1 ir r e fs cn o r. 176 of instruction to committee on reve nue, in reference to abolishment of state board of equalization........ 212 to amend constitution in reference to free schools....................... 212 OF MR. McCoY in reference to further consideration of report from committee on state, county and municipal indebted ness..261, 273 in reference to time of consideration of report from committee on mis cellaneous corporations............ 345 of inquiry to Auditor of State, in ref erence to assessed value of property in the state for the past four years. 127 of inquiry to Auditor of State, in ref ere-nce to state indebtedness........ 127 to amend constitution in reference to eminent domain...............- 180 to amend constitution in reference to eminent domain, reported back from committee on roads and inter nal navigation.......... 257 to print additional copies of report from committee on state, county and municipal indebtedness....... 482 OF MR. PARKS in reference to adjournment, sine d ie, of convention.....................1677 in reference to convention postage...1231 in reference to furnishing stationery to members of convention......... 65 in reference to the powers and duties of convention.......ihigc 91 in reference to use of hall'of repre sentatives for lecture.............. R704 to refer report from committee on in vestigation on accounts of Secreta ry of State to the Governor...... 1865 of instruction to committee on ac counts and expenditure of conven tion, in reference to cost of conven tion reporing and printing......... 1649 OF MR. PEIRCe in reference to additional pay to sec retaries of convention............ 1860 in reference to evening session of con vention........................... 1477 OF MR. eMcDoWneLL in reference to consideration of re port from committee on revision and adjustment...................i..162 in reference to 15th amendment..... 17.5 in reference-to newspapers........... 615 in reference to per diem of members and employes of convention....... 1178 to refuse use of hall of representa tive for lectures................... 859 OF MR. Ross —2 in reference to pardoning p vr of Governor......................... 151 of instruction to comm!W(,ee on coun ties in reference to -erm of county officers.........,................ 9It OF MR. MEDILL — in reference to compensation of judges... 174 in reference to' employing.messenger1 to stenographer................... 188 I —25 INDEX. 95 RESOLUTION-Continued. in reference to certain amendments to constitution....................... 57 In reference to certain amendments to constitution, called up and referred to appropriate committees......... 77 of condolence, in reference to the ca lamity at Richmond.............. 1537 ofinstruction to several committees in reference to consideration of $Lmendments to constitution...... 81 OF MR. ]FfExpy-. in reference to furnish ing members of convention with newspapers..... d 57 in reference to state, county an town appropriation and credit.... 180 OF MR. HILDRUP of instruction to committee on judi ciary in reference to establishment of congressional districts........... 192 to amend constitution in reference to Illinois Central 7 per cent. tax..... 193 OF MR. PJMRLEY in reference to religious liberty...... I'/9 OF MR. PILLSBURY requesting information from Auditor of State in reference to gross earn ings of Illinois Central Railroad since June 11, 1862................ 80 in reference to consideration of re ports of committees in committee of the whole...................... 490 in reference to sale of intoxicating liquor............................. 151 of instruction to committee on ja diciary to amend constitution in reference to court of common pleas, ,etc................................. 1w of instruction to committee on mis cellaneous subjects in reference to investment of funds of insurance companies........ 193 ofinstrudtion to committee on mis-: cellaneous subjects In reference to investment of funds of insurance companies, reported back from committee on miscellaneous sub jects............................... 257 OF MR. POAGI& in reference to publication of legis lative expenses...... 0i........... 260 in reference to the use hall of rep resentatives for lecture............ 429 OIF MR. Ricim in reference to election of delegate to convention in place of Hon. VVm' H. Patterson, deceased............ 200 ,in reference to executive expenses... 76 in reference to fees of county ofacers. 116 in reference to use of hall of repres'en taties for lecture................. 294 of inquiry to Auditor of State, in ref erence to cost of registration for the years 1868 and 1869............ 261 of instruction to committee on le-,,is lature in reference to special und private acts of incorporation...... 172 of instruction to committee on print ing and binding,- in reference to the establishment of a state printing office............................. 745 to prohibit school officers from pub lir,hidg school books, etc.......... 193 OF, MP.. ROBINSON in reference to employment of post master during recess of conven tion.............................. 1209 to amend constitution in reference to - " I eligibility to office of legal voters. p f 96 ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~. _ _EX RESOLUTION-Conttnued. OF MR. SNYDER- - in -reference to compensation of offi cers and members of convention... 736 in reference to corporal punishment in schools.........................1078 in reference to county collector and sheriff... 193 in reference to election of public ad ministrator...................1032 in reference to the employment of convict labor on1 public works............... 213 in reference to furnishing members of - convention with newspapers....57, 61r in reference to legislative assembly.. 100 in reference to legislative assembly, reported back fiom committee on legislative department............ 141 in reference to manner of election of master is chancery.... 2... A, 100, 745 in reference to pay of deceased and resigning members of convention.. 987 in reference to payment of temporary employes of convention.........87, 91 in reference to removal of convention to Chicago.................... 322 in reference to removal of state capi tal.............................. 679 in reference to right of suffrage..... 193 in reference to sessions of conven - tion......................... i f e e.. 260 in reference to ventil ati on of hall............... 64 in reference to vesting of pardoning power.......,.......151, 260 RESOLUTION —Continued. in reference to limitation of debate on report from committee on mines and mineral interests in reference to the protection of the lives of miners.......................... 274 in reference to payment of certain employes of convention.......1189 -in reference to payment of officers and members of convention....87 in reference to payment of pages of convention........................ 75 in reference to eer diem of members and officers oaf convention..... 987 in reference to-per diem of members and officers6 of convention, reported back from committee on accounts and expenditures of convention and agreed to.. 998 in reference'~o ratificaton of amendments to state and national constitutions............ 262 in reference to rules of convention... 9b of instruction to committee on ac counts and expenditures of conven tion, in reibrence to per diem of members and officerss of conlven tion,...........,.... 895 of instruction to committee on miscellaneous subjects, in reference to engrossing clerk........................ 78 of instruction to Secretary of State, in reference to publication of jour nal of convention........................ 213 to invite State ofi~cers to be present at administration of oath of office.................. 45 OF MR. SEDGWIC:K in reference to adjournment.................... 87 in~ reference to the appropriation of private property......................... 429 in reference to daily prayer in con. vention............................. 56 in lreference to exemption of manu factoring companies from taxation. 100 in reference to fuw nishing members of convention with additional copies of debates..........,......1339 in reference to furnishing newspapers -to members of convention................ 125, 169 in reference to ineligibility of office holders to general assembly or fu ture conventions...................... 76 in reference to the passage of local or special laws in certain cases................. 76 in reference to the publication of laws in county newspapers.................... 212 in reference to right of suffrage................... 736) in reference to state credit................... 76 of instruction to committee on revis ion and adjustment in reference to comparing enrolled constitution... 1859 to amend constitution in reference to the assessment of taxes for side walk purposes? etc..................... 212 to amend constitution in reference to pardoning power of Governor................ 193 to appoint committee to prepare ad dress to the people of the state....1708 OF MR. SPRINGIER — requesting certain information from O Superintendent of Public Instruc tion...............................1392 in reference to compensation of mem bers of general assembly......... 128 in reference to free schools......... 176 in reference to homesteads.......... 92 in reference to recess of convention.. 860 of condolence, in reference to the death of Hon. H. W. Billings....1446 of instruction to committee on coun ties in reference to county seats.. 92 of instruction to committee on educa tion in reference to election f of school superintendent...........758 i.... e to. 75o of instruction to committee on future amendments, in reference to form of oath of office of members of future conventions.............. 193 of instruction to committee on legis lature, in reference to property ex ernmpted from execution............ 180 of instruction to Superintendent of Public Instruction, in reference to school statistics.................3. 22 to amend constitution in reference to punishment for dueling.................. 1502 OF MR. UNiERWOOD — in reference to adjournment.................... 482 in reference to educational appropria tions and ~donations....................... 139 in reference to essay on the origin of the prairie......................................... 481 in reference to increase of official fees during term of office..................... 13S in reference to official fees...................... 179 in retbrence to postage stamps for convention..............\... 93 in reference to protection in public worship...............*.... 188 in reference to rights and privileges of the people, etc......10 in reference to the sovel'eig'n p'ow'er of10 convention v........... 213 of instruction to committee on bill of rights, in reference to jury verdicts in civil cases...................... 858 of instruction to committee on future amendments, in reference to future conventions................ 78 of instruction to Judiciary commit-tee, in reference to future amendments to constitution.................... 9& of instruction to committee on leg islature, in reference to compensa Wion of members of the legislature and future conventions *.*..... 78 of instruction to committee on rail road corporations, in reference to Illinois Central railroad......., 78 OF MR. TINCHER-t in reference to committee rooms.... 81 in reference to the custody and distri bution of printed matter of conven tion..........................3 In Ct 389 complimentary, in reference to por traits of Abraham Lincoln and Ste phen A. Douglas................,178 in reference to state indebtedness.. - 93 of thanks to Springfield Journal and Register......................1860 OF M~R. VA-NDEVENTESR — in reference to adjournment sine die of convention...................1861 in reference to appointment of pages of convention................ 54b in reference to binding journal of con vention, place.of.Hon..Wm.. ports 176 in reference to form of committee re portsi............... 1 46 in reference to ineligibility to future office of public officers guilty of embezzlement and defalcation................. 115 in reference to morning session of convention........................ 702 in reference to morning se-sio n o f convention, called up and acted upon................703 in reference to payment of officers and members of convention............... 429 in reference to testimony of crim inals........................ 72 in reference to " two mill " tax...................... 97 of instruction to committee on bill of rights in reference to right of prisoners' counsel in criminal trials 391 of instruction to committee on legis lative department in reference to punishment for murder...................... >X of instruction SD committee on mist cellaneous subjects in reference to railroad and warehouse L~ands..................... 532 O e MR. SeARP-a authorizing clerks of circuit courts to act as recorders in ~certain cases.... 213 of instruction to committee on judi ciary in xreference to mechanics' blens.............................. 193 of instruction to committee on judi ciary to amend constitution in ref erence to sheriffs.................. 367 of instruction to commuittce on judi c~ial circuits to amend constitution in reference to judicial circuits.................. 212 of instruction to committee on rev enlue in reference to Illinois Central railroad...........,..... 193 to adopt rule 50 limniting speeches... 260 OF MR. TRUESDALE-e in reference to election of delegate to convention in place of Hon. Wmn. H. Patterson, deceased............. 198 ill reference to the issuing of stock by railroad corporations............213 of inquiry to Auditor of State, in ref erence to appropriations by general assembly......................33 i 3to eligibility ~~ O MB. shrfsURNEleto.83cneninRale-pan ce in efeenc tooficil fes nd he OF MR. TURnERn —uo............. authorizing secretary to employ ternm porary engrossing clerk..........78. meber.of.cnvenion.. 78 requesting Judge Samuel H. Treat to administer oath of offnce..............1190 45 in reference to care of hall during re cess of convention.................1190 in reference to convention printing. 94 1179 in reference to furnishing manual to convention.......................................... 136 in reference to granting leave of ab sence.45. sen..........................82 o 8ns in reference to justices of supreme court..........................98 98 OF MR. ShiERRILz n d e in reierence to obtaining property by misrepresentation or fraudulent transactions6....................., 129 in reference to official fees, and the eligibility of sheriff% to r~e-election. 83 in reference to official fees, and the eligibility of sheriffs to re-election, reported back fi'om committee on township organization, and referred to committee on counties.....245 INDEX. RESOLUTlON-continnea RE8OLUT1ON-Uontind. RESOLUT1ON-Cotine4. RESOLUTION-Continued. in reference to separate schools for white and colored children, called up and acted upon................ 703 of instruction to committee on sched ule, in reference to' separate sub mission of articles of constitution.1796 to refund value of postage stamps... 346 RESOLUTION-Continued. of instruction to judiciary commit tee in reference to prevention of bribery in connection with public affairs............................ 93 of instruction to committee on revis ion and adjustment in reference to article on warehouses............. 1707 in MR. WAGNEmR in reference to adjournment sine die of convention..................... 1596 in reference to committee rooms..... 488 in reference to common schools...... 261 in reference to divorces.............. 282 in reference to the management of prisons......................... 321 in reference to pardoning power of Governer........................ 194 in reference to the passage of bills over veto......................... 213 in reference to printing debates..... 987 in reference to proportionate taxa tion............................. 194 in reference to town and county ap propriations, etc................... 179 in reference to warehouse frauds..... 758 of inquiry to Secretary of State, in reference to committee rooms...... 282' of instruction to committee on coun ties in reference to county bounda ries............................... 179 of instruction to committee on educa tion to amend constitution in refer ence to school system of state..... 179 OF MR. WELLS in reference to adjournment......... 453 in reference to adoption of amend ments to constitution.......i re c o........ 1156 in reference to bribery in general as sembly............................1477 in reference to election ofdelegate to convention in place of Hon. W. H. Patterson, deceased............... 197 in reference to the employment of clerks by committee on printing and binding................1....... 533 In reference to heading of stationery furnished to members of conven tion cmitero......... 72 in reference to location of national capital............................ 213 in reference to printing debates. 9 o......Anes 987 in reference to railroad tariff.........8 1477 in reference to ratification of amend ments to constitution............. 56 in reference to recess of convention.. 859 in reference to state indebtedness for railroads.......................... 72 in reference to state indebtedness and revenue.......................... 72 of instruction to doorkeeper in refer ence to ink................. 429 to establish a bureau of statistics.... 213 to establish bureau of statistics, re ported back from committee on miscellaneous subjects............ 257 to print order of president appointng additional committees............. 100 to purchase 200 copies of manual.... 145 to rescind resolution of inquiry to Auditor of State in reference to ex penses of general assembly since 1862, and of constitutional conven tion of 1862....................... 80 OF MR. WRIGHAT in reference to official fees........... 367 in reference to the pay of janitors.. 627 in reference to place of holding su preme court....................... 100 in reference to suffrage.............. 71 in reference to ve ntilation of hall....1210 to amend constitution in reference to term of Governor................. 194 to employ tempora ry enrolling clerk. 188 to furnish elective of ficer s o f conven tion with newspapers............. 127 of Mr. Abbot............ 93, 615, 679, 858 of Mr. Allen, of Alexander.......... 9 8 2, 1 16, 127 of Mr. Allen, of Crawford........... 51 81, 113, 151, 213, 251, 261, 263, 322 of Mr. Anderson......191, 533, 1087, 1190 of Mr. Arithony..... 28, 67, (2) 72, 81, 98 148. (2) 153 (4) 1,54, 208, 311, 334, 912 965, 14120, 1845, (2) 1861 of Mr. Archer............ (2) 67 78, (3) 88, 98, 11, 154, 157, of, 2dt, 1129 of Mr. Atkins................ 74, (2) 98 175, 176, 211, (2) 260, 323, 481, 858, 859 of Mr. Bayne..................... 91, 100 (3) 154, 176, 510, 654, 1202 of Mr. Benjamin............. 175, 192, 965 of Mr. Billings...................... 78 of Mr. Bowman................ 192, 211 of Mr. Bromwell..... 66, 76, 84 116, 132 172, 282, 487, 1012, 1210, i634, 1869 of Mr. Brown.................... 192, 249 of Mr. Browning................ 4 128, 141, 191, 282, 614 of Mr. Bryan........................ 83 134, 135, 150, 211, 260, 453, 1608, 1859 of Mr. Buxton............ 62 (3) 127, 345, (2) 1277, 1308 of Mr. Cameron..................... 8L 85, 98, 116, 174, 192, 758, 1403, 1596 of Mr. Cary......................... 70 77, 85, 137, 168, 429, 1087, 1180 of Mr. Church............ 7, 80, 148, 175 184, 198, 262, 702, 727, 1232, 1723, 1866 of Mr. Cody......................... 116 134, 988, i324, 1393, 1861 of Mr. Coolbaugh.....49, 150, 169, 211 of Mr. Craig...93, lg5, 180, 211, 1228, 1231 of Mr. Cross...................... (2) 211 (2) 262, 510, 1061, 1178, 1320 of Mr. Cummings................... 178 (2) 192, 281, 321, 334, 451 (3) 532, 590, 615, 1416, 1845 of Mr. Dement..91, 116, 263, 1392 of Mr. Eldredge.................... 84 93, (3) 151, 173, ($) 176, 177, 194, (2) 262, 713 of Mr. Ellis....75, 83, 98, 182,,2) 260, 281 of Mr. English..................... 86 182, 212, 260, 308, 726, 1677, 1860 of Mr. Fox........50, 68, 88, (2) 192,1863 of Mr. Fuller....83, 139, 192, 260, 484, 988 of Mr. Goodell...... 85, 195, 262, 758, 798 of Mr. Goodhue.....81, 83, 146, 1477, 1662 of Mr. Haines, of Cook............. 212 of Mr. Haines, of Lake.............. 44 49, (2) 84, 90, 91, 100, (2) 116 127, 128, 138, 148, 153, (3) 155, 165, (2) 180, (2) 192, 212 321, 344, 34,5, 782, 860, 866 912, 1104, 1208, 1596, (2) 1649 1677 of Mr. ttankins.........116, 192 of Mr. Hanna...........67, 72, 90, 1029, 1031 of Mr. Hart..................(2) 321 of Mr. Harwoodf...............178, 1334 of Mr. Hay............*.............. 64 90X 942, 124, 182, 560, 1~) 1790, 18700, 1833 of Mr. Hayes......57, 81, 1190, 1537 of Mr. HIenry...........57, 180 ot Mr. Hildrup................192, 193 of Mr. King.............67 169. 172, (2) 212, b6, 678 1234, 1425, 1763,'1845 of Mr. Kirkpatrick........... 91 of Mr. McCoy............(2) 127 - ~~~~(2 180, 261, 273, 345, 482 of Mr. McDowell..............+.. 175 615, 859, 1178, 1662 of Mr. Medill........................ 67 -(2) 139, (4) 174, 1010, 1231, 1678 OI MR. WALL in reference to adjournment, sine die, of convention.....................1233 In reference to employment of enroll ing clerks by committee on revision and adjustment................... 1845 In reference to grand jury and indict ments by......................... 174 in reference to management of state penitentiary.............. 679 In reference to ratification of'amend ments to constitution............. 55, in reference to sale of property for debt.............................. 615 of inquiry to Auditor of Public Ac counts, in reference to expenses of state penitentiary since 1867....... 178 of instruction to committee on peni tentiary and reformatory institu tions, in reference to state peniten tiary............ 127 7 of instruction to committee on print iDg and binding, in reference to cost of printing now constitution...... 704 ,of instruction to committee on revi sion and adjustment, in reference to election of masters in chancery.... 1789 of instruction to committee on roads and internal navigation, in refer ence to private roads.............. 135 to amend constitution in reference to the non-disqualification of wit nesses on account of religious be lief................................ 176 OF MR. WENDLING in reference to amendment of plead ings, etc............ e............... 261 in reference to furnishing additional postage stamps to"secretary of con vention........................... 367 in reference to ratification o f amend- mta nitti n...s to federal constitution...... 161 of instruction to committee on prin t ing and binding in reference to prninting debates in Ge rman............. 12171 213 on the subject of Warhington's birth day............................... 782 on the subject of Washington's birth day, called up..................... 793 to attend charity ball................ 182 to furnish postage stamps to secreta ry of convention................... 1231 OF MR. WHIlATON-o in reference to abolishment of comr. m rittee of the whole................ 13672 in reference to appropriation of pri vate property for public use....... 88 in reference to circuit courts........ 72 in reference to delivery of printed copies of reports of standing com mittees...,........................ 194 in reference to evening session of con vention........................... 402 in reference to limitation of debate in committee of the whole........... 613 of instruction to committee on mis cellaneous subjects in reference to the construction of the word "of fice...tg r taoe............ 782 of instruction to committee on tow'n ship organization in reference to boards of sup ervisors........... 155 of thanks to presidentpro tern........ 56 OF MR. W cASIBURal — in reference to application of seven per cent. tax of Illinois Central 'Railroad.......................... 194 in reference to general taxation for local benefit....................... 194 in reference to morning sessions of convention......................... $35 in reference to morning sessions of convention, called up.............. 855 in reference to printing resolutions.. 88 in reference to recess of convention..1077 in reference to releasing Illinois Cen tral railroad company from certain obligations........................ 72 in reference to right of soldiers to vote,.I...... 100 in reference to secretary's clerk.....1211 in reference to separate schools for white and colored children,....* *.. 679 IOF MR. WHITING-o in reference to considering railroads as public corporations.............. 146 complimentary, in reference to essay on the origin of the prairies........ 488 in reference to Illinois and Michigan c anal.............................. 100 of inquiry to Auditor of State in ref erence to state canal............. 236 197 RESOLUTlON-Continued. of thanks to committee on revision and adjustment................... 1869 OF Mft. WAIT in reference to elections and bribery at elections........................ 98 in reference to powers of state de partmentis......................... 98 In reference to wording of amend ments to constitution............. 98 -of instruction to committee on mili tary affairs, in reference to ef3tab. li,r,hme,nt of a military school...... 194 to amend constitution in reference to limitation of entail............... 194 to close convention with pray;r..... 1863 98 JNJ)EX. RESOLUTION- Continued. of Mr. Merriam.... 68, 177, 193, 615, 1869 of Mr. Moore........................ 92 180, 193, (2) 1022, () 1230, (2) 1389 of M-r. Ngece................ 84, 93 1763 of Mr. Parker........... 176, (2) 212, 481, 726 of Mr. Parks.......................... 65 91, 1231, 1649, 1677, 1865 of Mr. Peirce...............( 9 ) 147 84, 91, 98, 182, 21'S, 25, 481 758, 1104, 1477, 1814, 1860. of Mr. Perley........................ 179 of Mr. Pillsbury..... 80, 150, 151, 193, 490 of Mr. Poage.................... 260, 429 of Mr. Rice......................... 76 116, 172, 193, 200, 261, 294, 745 of Mr. Robinson................ 212, 1208 of Mr. Ross......... 151, (2) 193, 261, 1233 of Mr. Scholfield.67, 88, 116, 127, 154, 174 of Mr. Sedgwick..................... 56 (3) 76, 87, 100, 125 169, 193 (2) 212, 429, 736, 1339,1708 1859 of Mr. Sharp....(2) 193, 212, 213, 260, 367 of Mr. Sherrill.................... 83, 129 of Mr. Skinner...................... 45 213, 236, 745,, 1190, 1845 of Mr. Snyder....................... 57 61, 88, (2) 92, 93 (2) 100 151, 193, 213, (2) 260, 322, 564 679, 987, 1032, 1078 of Mr. Springer.................. 92,125 176, 180, 193, 322 758, 860, 1392, 1446 1502 ,of Mr. Tincher....... 81, 93, 178, 389, 1860 of Mr. Truesdale............ 198, 213, 323 of Mr. Turner........................ 9 45, 75, 78, 87, 94 98, 136, 213, 262, 274 832, 895, 987, 1179 1189, 1190 of Mr. Underwood.............(3) 78, 93 94, 100, (2) 138 (2) 139, 179, 213, 481, 382 858 of Mr. Vandeventer................. 54 72, 97, 116, 146, 176 282 321, 429, 5~32, 702, 1861, 1S69 of Mr. Wagner.................... (3) 179 (2) 194, 213, 261, (2) 282 321, 488, 758, 987, 1596 of Mr. Wait.......... (3) 98, (2) 194, 1863 of Mr. Wall.. 55 100, 135, 174, 176, 178, 615 679, 704, 1233, 1277, 1789 17,96, 1845 of Mr. Washburn,............... 72 88, 100, (2) 194, 346, 679, 835, 1077, 1211 of Mr. Wells...................... 56 (3) 72, 80, 145, 197, (2) 213, 4-29 453, 533, 859, 987, 1156, (2) 1477 of Mr. Wendling.................... 161 182, 213, 261, 367, 782, 1231 of Mr. Wheaton..................... 56 75, 88, 155, 194, 402, 613, 782, 1367 of Mr. Whiting..................... 93 100, 146, 236, 488, 1707 of Mr. Wright....................... 71 100, 127, 138, 194, 867, 627, 1210 RESOLUTIONS CALLED UP-Continued. resolution of Mr. Scholfield in refer enr.ce to rights of private corpora- - tions, called up and referred to com mittee on judiciary................ 88 resolution of Mr. Vandeventer in ref erence to morning session of con- vention. called up and acted upon. 703 resolution of Mr. Washburn in refer ence to morning sessions of conven tion, called u p................... 852 resolution of Mr. Washburn in refer ence to separate schools for white and colored children, called up and acted upon....................... 703 resolution of Mr. Wendling on the subject of Washington's birthday, called up..........................793 resolution of instruction of Mr. Church to committee on revision and adjustment in reference to arti cle on railroad corporations, called up and amended...................1731 resolution of instruction of Mr. Goodhue to committee on revision and adjustment in reference to sec tion 6 of article on right of suf frage, called up and debated on....1725 1726 RESOLUTIONS REFERRED-Continued. resolution of Mr. Atkins in reference to eminent domain, taken up and referred to committee on judiciary 858 resolution of Mr. Atkins in reference to " two-mill tax," referred to committee on revenue............. 175 resolution of Mr. Bayne, in reference to granting franchises in certain cases, referred to committee on ag riculture and manufactures....... 654: resolution of Mr. Bayne in reference to pay of policemen of convention, referred to committee on accounts and expenditures of convention....1202 resolution of Mr. Bayne in reference to preamble, referred to committee on bill of rights..................; 154 resolution of Mr. Benjamin in refer ence to contracts, etc., referred to committee on bill of rights........ 965 resolution of Mr. Benjamin to amend article second of constitution, in reference to powers of state govern ment, referred to committee on bill of rights...................... 192 resolution'of Mr. Bowman in refer ence to the encouragement of learn ing, referred to committee on edu cation............................. 211 RESOLUTIONS REFERRED-r resolution of Mr. Abbott in reference to extension of corporate limits, referred to committee on munici pal corporations.................................... 679 resolution of Mr. Abbott in reference to formation of new counties, re ferred to committee on counties'... 93 resolution of Mr. Anthony in refer ence to city mayors, their powers and duties, referred to committee on municipal corporations........ 154 resolution of Mr. Anthony in refer ence to common schools, referred to committee on education....... 965 resolution of Mr. Anthony in refer- ence to convention journal, referred to committee on printing and bind fg................................ 18 45 resolution of Mr. Anthony in refer ence to election of town and city officers, etc., referred to committee on municipal corporations......... 154 resolution of Mr. Anthony in refer ence to establishment of bureau of agriculture, etc., referred to com mittee on executive department.... 1s53 resolution of Mr. Anthony in refer ence to general and special laws of cities, referred to committee on municipal corporations............ 154 resolution of Mr. Anthony in refer ence to general and special taxes, referred to committee on revenue.. 154 resolution of Mr. Anthony in refer ence to Lake and Dearborn parks, referred to committee on judiciary. 154 resolution of Mr. Anthony in refer ence to location of offices of rail road corporations in this State, re ferred to committee on railroad cor porations......................... 150 resolution of Mr. Anthony in refer ence to removal of officers, referred to committee on legislative depart ment................................ 154 resolution of Mr. Anthony in refer ence to state and national govern ment, referred to committee on federal relations................... 100 resolution of Mr. Anthony in refer ence to street railroads, referred to committee on municipal corpora tions............................... 154 i resolution of Mr. Anthony in refer ence to subscriptions to stock by counties towns, etc., referred to committee on municipal corpora tions......................... 154 resolution of Mr. Anthony in refer ence to tenure and salary of offi cers, referred to committee on mu nicipal corporations.............. 211 resolution of Mr. Archer in reference to county courts and their jurisdic tion, taken up and referred to judi ciary committee................... 88 resolution of Mr. Archer in reference to passage of bills over veto, taken up and referred to committee on executive.................... c....... I 98 INDEX. resolution of Mr. Bromwell in refer ence to extra employes of conven tion, referred to committee on ac counts — nd expenditures ofconven tion........... 1012 resolution of M., ;o,'m''w'e'li' i-'n'r'e'fe'r ence to salaries ofstate officials, referred to committee on judici ary................................ 28!Z resolution of Mr. Bryan in reference to considering railroad corporations as individuals,, referred to commit tee on railroad corporations...... 150 resolution of Mr. Bryan in reference to election and compensation of state officers, referred to commit tee on legislature.................. 83 resolution of Mr. Bryan in reference to support of public institutions by the state, referred to committee on state institutions and public build ings.................. 260 resolution of Mr. Bux i'n"r"'f'r'e'rice to rights and duties of individuals find associations, referred to com mittee on bill of rights.... 1271 resolution of Mr., C$6meron in refer — ence to present system of number ing -ball7ots, referred to committee on r lit of suffrage... 99 resolution.of Mr. CEim'er'o'n' "l'n''r'e'ir' ence to transfer oftownsh'ips, re ferred to' committee on counties... 192, resolution of Mr. Cary in reference to' sectarian appropriations, referred to committee on legislature....... 86 resolution of Mr. ChlYreh in reference to consideration of reports:'of com mittees., called up and relerred to Comm.1................. 7'0 resolution of Mr. Church in reference to drains, referred to committee on, manufactures and agriculture...... 262 resolution of Mr. Church in r'eferelq"ce to the state as defendaut'in courts. of law and equity, refrred to com - ittee on le,-islature.... -.... 175 resolution of Mr. Ch ur'ch to adopt rule 49 in reference to the effect of tabling amendments, referred to committee on rules................ 189 resolution of Mr. Coolbaugh in refer ence to limitation of.tat-e indebted' terred t on ness, re o committee state, county, and municipal in debtednes-8 resolution of g in reference to members of county boards, re ferred to committtee on counties.. 155 resolution of Mr. Cross in'ref6r'ence to furnishing state maps to,eonven tion, referred to committee, on printing and bindine............... 263 resolution of Mr. Cupa-m- 1 in refer,. 1191, ence to imprisonment fr debt, re ferred to committee on bill of rights.............................. 334 resolution of Mr.,Cummings in refer ence to monopolies, refe"ed to committee on bill of rigl*s........ 321 RESOLUTIONS CALLED UP resolution of Mr. Archer in reference -to county courts and their jurisdic tion, called up and referred to com mittee on judiciary................. 88 resolution of Mr. Archer In reference to passage of bills over veto, called up and referred to -committee on executive, department............. 88 resolution of Mr. Church in reference tothe consideration of reports from committees, called up and referred. ,to committee on rules 745 resolution of Mr. Chure'l'n'ir'e'n"c'e to morning sessions of convention, called up.......................... 1233 resolutioifof Mr. English in reference to recess of convention, called'up and debated on................ 826 fo 832 resolution of Mr. Hayes in reference to certain amendments to constitu tio-n, called up and referred to ap-_ propriate committees............... 77 resolution of Mr. Kii3g to amend rule 44 -in regard to order of businei3s, called up and referred to committee, -on....... 173 -................................... 99 RESOLUTIONS REFERRED-Continued. resolution of Mr. Haines, of Lake, in reference to removal of county seats, referred to committee on counties.......................... 155 resolution of Mr. Haines, of Lake, in r reference to salaries of public offi cers, referred to committee on re trenchment and reform............ 100 resolution of Mr. Haines, of Lake, in reference to sale and redemption of lands, referred to committee on revenue........................... 192 resolution of Mr. Haines, of Lake, in reference to the statute laws of Illi nois, referred to committee on re vision and adjustment............ 912 resolution of Mr. Hlaines, of Lake, in reference to submission of consti tution, referred to committee on schedule.......................... 1596 RESOLUTIONS REFERRED-Cont inued. resolution of Mr. Cummings in refer ence to the rights of the people in regard to the internal government of the state, referred to the com mittee on bill of rights............ 281 resolution of Mr. Eldredge in refer ence to the appropriation of pri vate property to pubiic use, refer red to committee on bill of rights 93 resolution of Mr. Eldredge in refer eence to election of members of the house of representatives, etc., re ferred to committee on electoral and representative reform......... 151 resolution of Mr. Eldredge in refer ence to eminent domain, referred to committee on judiciary............ 713 resolution of Mr. Eldredge in refer ence to fees of county clerks in cer tain cases, referred so committee on retrenchment and reform........... 262 RESOLUTIONS REFERRED —ont in uel. resolution of Mr. Merriam in refer to the maintenance of a State Uni versity, referred to committee on education........................ 193 resolution of Mr. Moore in reference to the fees of county officers, refer red to committee on state, county and municipal indebtedness........ 180 resolution of Mr. Parker in reference to the abatement of taxes on real estate, referred to committee on revenue. 726 resolution o f M r. Parker i n r eference to future revision of constitution, referred to committee on judiciary 176 resolution of Mr. Parker in reference to State militia, referred to commit tee on military affairs............ 176 resolution of Mr. Parker to amend constitution in reference to free schools, referred to committee on education......................... 212 resolution of Mr. Parks in reference to adjournment, sine die, of conven tion, referred to committee on schedule.......................... 1677 resolution of Mr. Haines, of Lake, to elect commissioners of agriculture and statistics, referred to commit tee on executive................... 212 resolution of Mr. Hankinsin reference to compensation for private prop erty appropriated for public use, referred to committee on roads and internal navigation........... 192 resolution of Mr. Hart in reference - to capital sto(k of railroads, refer red to committee on railroad corpo rations............................ 321 resolution of Mr Hart in reference to power of supreme court, referred to committee on judiciary......... 321 resolution of Mr. RHay in reference to the formation of new counties, re ferred to committee on counties... 197 resolution of Mr. Hay in reference to publicaton and distribution of pro ceedings of convention, referred to committee on printing and bind ing................................ 65 resolution of Mr. Henry in reference to state, county and town appro priation and credit, referred to com mittee on legislative department.. 180 resolutioution of Mr. Hildrup to amend constution in reference to Illinois Central 7 per cent. tax, referred to -committee on revenue............. 193 resolution of Mr. King in reference to appointment of janitor to senate chamber, referred to committee on accounts and expenditures of con vention...................... 1234 resolution of Mr. King in reference to movable property of railroads, re ferred to committee on railroad corporations.................1,.. 172 resolution of Mr. King in reference to movable property of railroads, reported back from committee on miscellaneous corporations by Mr. McCoy, and referred to committee on railroad corporations........... 210 resolution of Mr. King in reference to proposals for convention print ing, referred to committee on print-c ing and binding.................. 67 resolution of Mr. Eldredge in refer ence to formation of new counties, referred to committee on counties.. 262 resolution of Mr. Eldredge in refer ence to public highways, referred to committee on roads and internal navigation........................ 176 resolution of Mr. Eldredge in regard to reference of amendments, etc., to constitution, to committees, re ferred to committee on rules....... 176 resolution of Mr. Eldredge in refer ence to street railroads, referred to committee on miscellaneous corpo rations............................ 151 resolution of Mr. Ellis in reference to amendments to national, constitu tion, referred to committee on fed. eral relations...................... 98 resolution of Mr. Ellis in reference to the removal of county seats, re ferred to committee on counties.. 281 resolu tion of Mr. Peirce in reference to names and meetings of town ships, referred to committee on township organization............. 182 resolution of Mr. Peirce in reference to ratio of representation, referred to committee on legislative appor tionment.......................... 91 resolution of Mr. Perley in reference to religious liberty, referred to com mittee on bill of rights............ 179 resolution of Mr. Pillsbury in refer ence to sale of intoxicating liquor, referred to committee on legisla tive department................... 151 resolution of Mr. Poage in reference to publication of legislative expenses, referred to committee on executive 260 resolution of Mr. Rice to prohibit school officers from publishing school books, etc., referred to com mittee on education............... 193 resolution of Mr. Robinson to amend constitution in reference to eligi bility to office of legal voters, re ferred to committee on electoral and representative reform......... 212 resolution of Mr. Ross in reference to pardoning power, referred to com. mittee on executive.......... 151 resolution of Mr. Scholfield in refer ence to rights of private corpora tions, taken up and referred to ju-: diciary committee................. 88 resolution of Mr. Scholfield to amend constitution in reference to extra compensation of public officers, re ferred to committee on legislative department....................... 154 resolution of Mr. English in reference to female and negro suffrage, re ferred to committee on right of suffrage........................... 212 resolution of Mr. English in reference to preparation of address to the people of the state, referred to committee on miscellaneous sub jects.............................. 1704 resolution of Mr. Fox in reference to bill of rights, referred to commit tee on bill of rights............... 192 resolution of Mr. Fuller in reference to use of intoxicating liquors by state officials, referred to commit tee on miscellaneous subjects...... 192 resolution of Mr. Goodell in reference to buncombe, referred to committee on education...................... 758 resolution of Mr. Haines, of Cook, prohibiting railroad consolidation, referred to committee on railroad corporations...................... 212 resolution of Mr. Haines, of Lake, in reference to adjournment, sine die, of convention, referred to commit tee on schedule....................1649 resolution of Mr., Haines, of Lake, in reference to appropriation of pri vate property fir'public use, etc.1' referred to committee on bill of rights............................. 155 resoiution of Mr. Haines, of Lake, in reference to eminent domain, re ferred to committee on bill of rights............................. 321 reso, ution of Mr. Haines. of Lake; in reference to the formation of new counties, referred to committee on counties......................... 180 resolution of Mr. Haines, of Lake, in reference to the incorporation of towns, referred to committee on municipal corporations........... 155 resolution of Mr. Haines, of Lake, in reference to official terms and fees, referred to judiciary committee.... 84 resolution of Mr. Haines, of Lake, in reference to per dtem of members of convention during recess, re referred to committee on retrench ment and reform.................. 345 resolution of Mr. Haines, of Lake, in reference to the release of Illinois Central railroad company from cer tain obligations, referred to co* mittee on internal improvements.. 84 i-26 resolution of Mr. King in reference to publication of constitution and ad-: dress, referred to committee on printing and binding..............1845 resolution of Mr. King to amend rule 44, in regard to order of busi ness, referred to committee on rules.............................. 174 resolution of Mr. McCoy to amend constitution in reference to eminent domain, referred to roads and inter nal navigation..................... 180 resolution of Mr. McDowell in refer ence to consideration of report from committee on revision and adjust ment, referred to committee on rules.............................. 1662 resolution of Mr. McDowell in refer ence to 15th amendment, referred to committee on judiciary......... 175 e resolution of Mr. Medill in referencee to compensation of judges, referred to committee on judiciary......... 174 resolution of Mr. Medill in reference to fees of county officers, referred to committee on counties............ 174 resolution of Mr. Medill in reference to opinions of supreme court judges, referred to committee on judiciary. 174 INDEX. 99 resolution ofmr. Scholfield to amend constitution in reference to remo val of county, seats,. referred to committee on counties............ 174 resolution ofmr. Sed,-wick in refer ence to the appi-opri ation of private property, referred to committee on bill )f rights...................... 429 resolution of Mr. Sedgwick in.refer i3ce to exemption of madufactu riniz companies from taxation, re ferred to committee on madufac tures and agriculture.............. 100 resolution of Mr. Sedgwick in refer ence to the publication of laws in count,y newspapers, referred to ommittee on printing and bind ing................................ 12 resolution of Mr. Sedgwick in refe ence to right of suffrage, referred to committee on right of suffrage.. 736 resolution of Mr. SedL-wick to amend constitution in reference to assess ment of taxes for sidewalk purpo ses, etc., referred to committee on revenue........................... 212 resolution of Mr. Sedgwick to amend constitution in reference to pa,rdon inz power of Governor, referred to committee on executive........... 193 resolution of Mr. Sedgwick to appoint. committee to prepare address to the people of the state, referred to committee on miscellaneous sub jects..............................170& -— II>X RESOLUTIONS REFERRED-Continued. RESOLUTIONS R1FERRED-Continued RESOLUTIONS RFERRED-Uoncinuea. RESOLUTIONS REFERRED-Continued resolution of Mr. Underwood in refer ence to official fees, referred to committee on legislative depart m e nt.................................. 179 resolution of Mr. Underwood in refer ence to sovereign power of conven tion, referred to committee on fu ture amendments..................... 213 resolution of Mr. Vandcventer in ref erence to binding journal of con vention, referred to committee on printing and binding.............. 176 resolution of Mr. Vandeventer in ref erence to testimony of criminals, referred to judiciary committee.-.. 72 resolution of Mr. Wagner in reference to adjournment, sine die, of con — vention, referred to committee on schedul e.......................... 1596 resolution of Mr. Wagner in reference to common schools, referred to committee on education...........Wha 261 resolution of Mr. Wagner in reference to divorces, referred to committee on legislative department......... 282 resolution of Mr. Wagner in reference to management of prisons, referred to committee on penitentiary and reformatory institutions...........Wha 321 resolution of Mr. Wagner in reference to pardoning power of Governor, referred to committee on execu tive............................... 194 RESOLUTIONS REFERRED-Continuec. resolution of Mr, Wells in reference to location of nationa l capital, re ferred to committee on federal rela t io-ns rg.............................. 213 resolution of Mr. Wells in reference to printing debates, referred to committee on printing and bind ing................................ 987 resolution of Mr. Wells to establish a bureau of statistics, referred to com mittee on executive............... 213 resolution of Mr. Wells to establish a bureau of statistics, referred to com mittee on legislative department.. 257 resolution of Mr. Wendling in refer ence to amendment of pleadings etc., referred to committee on judi eiary.............................. 261 resolution of Mr. Wendling to attend charity ball, referred to committee on retrenchment and reform....... 182 resolution of Mr. Wheaton in refer ence to appropriation of private property for public use, referred to committee on bill of rights........ 88 resolution of Mr. Wheaton in refer ence to circuit courts, referred to committee on judicial circuits..... 88 resolution of Mr. Wheaton to amend constitution in reference to term of Governor, referred to committee on executive.................... 194 resolution of Mr. Whiting in refer ence to considering railroads as public corporations, referred to committtee on miscellaneous cor porations......................... 148 resolution of Mr. Whiting in reference to Illinois and Michigan canal, re ferred to committee on internal im provements...................... 100 resolution of Mr. Wright in reference to official fees, referred to commit tee on public accounts and expendi tures....................... 367 resolution of Mr. Wright in reference to pay of janitors, referred to com mittee on accounts and expendi tures of convention................ 627 resolution of Mr. Wright in reference to place of holding supreme court, referred to judiciary committee.... 100 resolution of Mr. Wright in reference to suffrage, referred to c,mmittee on right of suffrage............... 8 resolution of Mr. Wright in reference to ventilation of hall, referred to committee on accounts and expen ditures of convention..............1211 resolution of inquiry of Mr. Moore to Superintendent of Public Instruce tion in reference to school statistics, referred to committee on educa tion.. 193 resolution of instruction of Mr. Ab bott to committee on judiciary in reference to jurors and verdicts in criminal trials, referred to commit tee on judiciary................... 615 resolution of instruction of Mr. Ab bott to committee on judiciary in reference to rules of evidence, re ferred to committee on judiciary..F$58 t resolution of instruction of Mr. Allen, of Alexander, l~o committee on leg islature in reference to county repo resentationl, referred to committee on legislature...........82 resolution of instruction of Mr. Allen, of Crawford, to committee on reve nue in reference to taxation: of church property used for other thank religious purposes, referred to com mittee on revenue.........225 resolution of instruction of Mr. Allen, of Crawford, to committee on rev enule to amend constitution in reference to taxation of telegraph stock, etc., referred to commsittee on revenue.............263 resolution of instruction of Mr. An derson to committee on accounts and expenditures of convention in reference to further publication of debates, referred to committee on accounts and expenditures of con ~ ention 11.............190 resolution of instruction of Mr. An derso-n to committee on legislature in reference to future creation of offices by the legislatue, referred to committee on legislature....... 191 resolution of Mr. Wagner in refer ence to the passage of bills over veto, referred to committee on legislative department............. 213 resolution of Mr. Wagner in refer ence to printing debates, referred to committee on accounts and ex penditures of convention. 9 rlo.......... 987 resolution of Mr. Wagner in refer ence to propo rtionate taxation, re - ferred to committee on reven ue mt... 194 resolution of Mr. Wagner in reference to town and county appropriations, etc., referred to committee on mu nicipal corporations................ 179 resolution of Mr. Wagner ini refer ence to warehouse frauds, referred to committee on miscellaneous sub jects.............................. 758 resolution of Mr. Wait in reference to elections and bribery at elections, referred to committee on electoral and representative reform......... 98 resolution of Mr. Wait in reference to powers of state departments, re ferred to committee on bill of rights............................... 98 resolution of Mr. Wait in reference to wording of amendments to con stitution, referred to committee on revision and adjustment........... 98 resolution of Mr. -Wait to amend con stitution in reference to limitation of entail, referred to committee on legislature.....................1... 194 resolution of Mr. Wall in reference to grand jury and indictments by, re ferred to committee on bill of rights.............................. l174 resolution of Mr. Wall in reference to management of state penitentiary, referred to committee on peniten tiary and reformatory institutions. 679 resolution of Mr. Wall in reference to sale of property for debt, refer red to committee on bill of rights.. 615 resolution of Mr. Wall to amend con stitution in reference to the non disqualification of witnesses on ac count of religious belief referred to committee on bill of rights......16 oCr 176 resolution of Mr. Washburn in refer ence to application of seven per cent. tax of Ill. Central railroad, re ferred to committee on finance.... 194 resolution of Mr. Washburn in refer ence to general taxation for local benefit, referred to committee on finance............................ 194 resolution of Mr. Wells in reference to adoption of amendments to con stitution, referred to committee on rules.............................. 1156 resolution of Mr. Wells in reference to bribery in general assembly, re ferred to committee on legislative department.....................2. dprm. 1477 100 INDEX. RESOLUTIONS REFERRED-Continued. resolution of Mr. Sharp authorizing clerks of circuit courts to act as re corders in certain cases, referred to committee on judiciary............ 213 resolution of Mr Sharp to adopt rule 50, limiting speeches, referred to committee on rules................ 260 resolution of Mr. Sherrill in reference to fees of county officers, etc., re ported back by committee onto wn ship organization, and referred to committee on counties............ 245 resolution of Mr. Sherrill in reference to official fees and the eligibility of sheriffs to re-election, referred to committee on township organiza tion............................... 83 resolution of Mr. Sherrill in refer ence to official fees and the eligibil ity of sheriffs to re-election, report ed back from committee on town ship organization, and referred to committee on counties..,-.......,.. 245 rsolution of Mr. Skinner in reference to employment of. secretaries dur..ng recess of convention, referred to committee on accounts and ex penditures of convention.......... 1190 resolution of Mr. Snyder in reference to corporal punishment in schools, referred to committee on educa tion............................... 1078 resolution of Mr. Snyder in reference to county collector and sheriff, re ferred to committee on revenue... 93 resolution of Mr. Snyder in reference to election of public administrator, referred to committee on countles.1032 resolution of Mr. Snyder in reference to employment of convict labor on state works, referred to committee on state institutions and public buildings......................... 213 resolution of Mr. Snyder in referene to manner of election of masters in chancery, referred to committee on counties........................... 745 resolution of Mr. Snyder in reference to manner of election of masters in chancery, referred to judiciary com mittee....92, 100 resoluti nyder in reference to removal of state capital, referred to committee on state institutions and public buildings............... 6'i 9 resolution of Mr. Snyder in reference to right of suffrage, referred to committee on bill of rights........ 193 resolution of Mr. Snyder in reference to sessions of convention,referred to committee on rules.......;.i..... 260 resolution of Mr. Snyder in e rence to vesting of pardoning power, re ferred to committee on executive.. 151 260 resolution of Mr. Springer in refer ence to free schools, referred to committee on education........... 176 resolution of Mr. Springer in refer ence to homesteads, referred to committee on miscellaneous sub jectF3............................... 92 resolution of Mr. Springer to amend constitution in reference to punish ment for dueling, referred to com. mittee on miscellaneous subjects..1502 resolution of Mr. Tincher in reference to state indebtedness, referred to committee on legislature.......... 93 resolution of Mr. Truesdale in refer ence to the issuina of stock by rail road corporations, referred to com mittee on legislative department 213 resolution of Mr. Turner in reference to care of hall during recess of con vention, referred to committee on accounts and expenditures of con ventiou........................... 1190 resolution of Mr. Turner in reference to justices of supreme court, re. ferred to judiciary committee..... 98 resolution of Mr. Turner in reference to per them of members and officers of convention, referred to commit tee on accounts and expenditures of convention..................... 987 resolution of Mr. Turner In reference to ratification of amendments to state and national constitutions, referred to committee W federal relations.......................... 262 INDEX. 101 RESOLUTIONS REFERRED-G}atinue RESOLUTIONS REFERRED-Contineed. RESOLUTIONS REFERRED-Continued. RESOLUTIONS REFERRED-Continuled. resolution of instruction of Mr. Cam eron to committee on accounts and expenditures of convention, inref ence to postmaster of convention, referred to committee on accounts and expenditures of convention.... 758 resolution of instruction of Mr. Cam eron to committee on finance, in reference to exemption from taxa tion, referred to committee on finance........................... 192 resolution of instruction of Mr. Church to judiciary committee, in reference to Illinois Central rail road, referred to judiciary commit tee................................ 80 resolution of instruction of Mr. Cool ibaugh to committee on revenue, in i-eference to exemption from taxa tion, referred to committee on rev enue............................ 211 resolution of instruction of Mr. Craig to committee on banks and curren cy, to amend constitution in refer ence to bank legislation, referred to committee on banks and currency. 211 resolution of instruction of Mr. Craig to judiciary committee, in reference to chancery business, referred to judiciary committee............... 93 resolution of instruction of Mr. Cross to committee on judiciary, in refer to the abolishment of grand juries, referred to committee on judici ary............................6... 262 resolution of instruction of Mr. Cross to committee on judiciary, in ref erence to prosecuting attorneys, referred to committee on judiciary. 211 resolution of instruction of Mr. Cross to committee on legislative depart ment in reference to general assem bly, referred to committee on legis lative department................. 211 resolution of instruction of Mr. Cross to committee on revenue, in refer ence to the Exemption of certain lands from taxation, referred to committee on revenue............. 481 resolution of instruction of Mr. Cum mings to committee on counties, in reference to counties and county seats, referred to committee on counties.......................... 178 resolution of instruction of Mr. Cum mings to committee on finance, in reference to abolishment of State board of equalization, referred to committee on finance............. 615 resolution of instruction of Mr. Cum mings to judiciary committee, in reference to railroad tariffs, referred to judiciary committee............ 192 resolution of instruction of Mr. Cum am ings to committee on right of sufct rage, in reference to female suf frage, referred to committee on right of suffrage.................. 532 resolution of instruction of Mr. Cummings to committee on right of suffrage in reference to submis sion of female suffrage proposition, referred to committee on right of suffrage.......................... 532 resolution of instruction of Mr. Eld redge to committee on judiciary in reference to railroad fares, referred to committee on judiciary......... 84 resolution of instruction of Mr. Eld redge to committee on judiciary in reference to revision of state laws, referred to committee on judiciary 194 resolution of instruction of Mr. Eld redge to committee on penitentiary and reformatory institutions, in reference to the establishment of local penitentiaries............. 177 resolution of instruction of Mr. Ellis to committee on legislature in refer ence to sessions of general assembly and compensation of members of, referred to committee on legisla ture...........................83 r 83 resolution of instruction of Mr. Ellis to committee on revenue in refer ence to tax titles,referred to commit tee on revenue.................... 260 resolution of instruction of Mr. Ellis to Secretary of State in reference to articles furnished to members of convention, referred to commit tee on retrenchment and reform... 260 INDEX. 10I RESOLUTIONS REFERRED-Continued. resolution of instruction of Mr. Archer to committee on executive in reference to pardoning power of Governor, referred to committee on executive......................... 98 resolution of instruction of Mr. Archer to judiciary committee in 'reference to rules of evidence, re ferred to judiciary committee...... 78 resolution of instruction of Mr. Archer to committee on legislative department in reference to publica tion of laws, referred to committee on legislature..................... 88 resolution of instruction of Mr. Archer to committee on legislative department to amend constitution in reference to property of married women, referred to committee on legislative department............ 177 resolution of instruction of Mr. At kins to committee on bill of rights in reference to drainage, referred to committee on bill of rights...... 481 resolution of instruction of Mr. At kins to committee on bill of rights in reference to privileges of citizens in regard to food, referred to com mittee on bill of rights............ 260 resolution of instruction of Mr. Atkins to committee on legislative department, in reference to amal gamation, referred to committee on legislative department......... 211 resolution of instruction of Mr. Atkins to committee on legislative department, in reference to salaries of state officials, referred to com mittee on legislature............... 260 , Solution of instruction of Mr. Atkins to committee on railroad corporations, to amend constitu tion in reference to obligations of Illinois Central railroad, referred to committee on railroad corpora tions............................... 176 resolution -of instruction of Mr. Bayne to committee on counties, in reference to election of county officers, referred to committee on counties.......................... 154 resolution of instruction of Mr. Bayne to committee on counties, in reference to removal of county seats, referred to committee on counties.......................... 154 resolution of instruction of Mr. Bayne to committee on judiciary, in reference to abolishment of grand jury, referred to committee on judiciary...................... 176 resolution of instruction of Mr. Bayne to committee on miscellane ous subjects, in reference to widows and orphans, referred to committee on miscellaneous subjects......... 510 resolution of instruction of Mr. Ben jamin to committee on electoral and representative reform, in refer ence to majority and minority rep resentation, referred to committee on electoral and representative re form............... 175 resolution of instruction of Mr. Bil lings to judiciary committee, in reference to the establishment of local courts, referred to judiciary committee.............78 resolutmon of instruction of Mr. Biotawell to committee on judi ciary, in reference to eminent do main in regard to railroads, referred to committee on judiciary.....487 resolution of instruction of Mr. Brown to committee on peniten tiary and reformatory institutions, in reference to mechanical labor in , state penitentiary, referred to com mittee on penitentiary and reforma tory institutions..........192 resolutions of instruction of Mr. Bryan to committee on miscellane ous subjects, in reference to corpo rate limits of towns and cities, re ferred to committee on miscellane ous subjects....................... 211 resolution of instruction of Mr. Bryan in reterence to the corporate limits of towns, reported back from -committee on miscellaneous sub jects; and referred. to committe~on municipal corporations,................ 858s RESOLUTIONS REFERRED-C-ontinued. resolution of instruction of Mr. Fox to committee on schedule in refer ence to manner of submission of new constitution, referred to com mittee on schedule................ 192 resolution of instruction of Mr. Ful ler to committee on accounts and expenditures, in reference to committee rooms, referred to com mittee on accounts and expendi tures.............................. 260 resolution of instruction of Mr. Ful ler to committee on legislature, in reference to number of members of general assembly, referred to com mittee on legislature.............. 83 resolution of instruction of Mr. Good ell to committee on bill of rights in reference to preamble, referred to committee on bill of rights........ 262 resolution of instruction of Mr. Good-. hue to committee on canal and ca nat lands in reference to Illinois and Michigan canal, referred to committee on canal and canal lands............................81, 83 resolution of instruction of Mr. Haines, of Lake, to committee on education in reference to public school fund, referred to committee on education...................... 281 resolution of instruction of Mr. Haines, of Lake, to committee on manufactures and agriculture in reference to restriction of landed estate, referred to committee on manufactures and agriculture...... 1104 resolution of instruction of Mr. Haines, of Lake, to committee on printing aud binding in reference to furnishing state maps to conven tion, referred to committee on printing and binding.............. 192 resolution of instruction of Mr. Hanna to committee on accounts and expenditures of convention in reference to pay of chaplains, refer red to committee on accounts and expenditures of convention........ 1030 resolution of instruction of Mr. Har wood to -committee on legislative department in reference to state senators, representatives and cen sus, reterred to committee on leg islative department................ 178 resolution of instruction of Mr. Hay to committee on miscellaneous sub jects in reference to bribery on the part of public officers, referred to committee on miscellaneous sub jects.............................. 182 resolution of instruction of Mr. Hildrup to committee on judiciary in reference to establishment of congressional districts, referred to committee on judiciary............ 192 resolution of instruction of Mr. King to committee on judiciary in refer ence to presumptions of law or fact in state or corporation pro ceedings, referred to committee on judiciary............................ 212 resolution of instruction of Mr. King to committee on judiciary in reference to supreme court, referred to committee on judiciary.................... 212 resolution of instruction of Mr. Merriamn to committee on state, county and municipal indebtedness in reference to compensation of county officers, referred to commit tee on state, county and municipal indebtedness........................... 17? resolution of instruction of Mr. Moore to commlittee on federal re lations in reference to succession tax, referred to j udiciary committee 92 resolution of instruction of Mr. Parker to committee on revenue in reference to abolishment of state board of equalization, referred to committee on revenue.............................. 212 resolution of instruction of Mr. Neece to commsittee on counties in reference to circuit clerk and re corder, referred to committee on counties....*........................ 84 resolution of instruction of Mr. Peir ce to comnmittee on legislative department ill reference t o general and special laws, referred tolDcorn, reitt~ee on legislature.............,........ 98 1o-'ID~....................................... RESOLUTIONS REFERREDCoied. RESOLUTIONS REFERRED-Continued RESOLUTIONS REPORTED LBACK-Con RESOLUTIONS REFERRED-Continued. resoluti resolution f instruction of Mr. Un derwood to committee on legisla ture, in reference to compensation of members of the legislature and future conventions, referred to com mittee on legislature.............. 78 resolution of instruction of Mr. Un derwood to committee on railroad corporations, in reference to Illinois Central railroad, referred to com mittle on railroad corporations.... 73 resolution of instruction of Mr. Van deventer to committee on bill of rights, in reference to right of pris oners' counsel in criminal trials, referrod to committee on bill of rights....................... 321 resolution of instruction of Mr. VrT deventer to committee on legio,n tive department, in reference to punishment for murder, referred to committee on legislative depart ment......................... 282 resolution of instruction of Mr. Van deventer to committee on miscella neous subjects, in reference to rail road and warehouse Irauds, referred to committee on miscellaneous sub jects............................. 532 resolution of instruction of Mr. Wag ner to committee on counties, in reference to county boundaries, re ferred to committee on counties... 179 resolution of instruction of Mr. Wag ner to committee on education, to amend constitution in reference to school system of state, referred to committee on education.........9 sbe.. 179 resolution of instruction of Mr. Wa ner to Secretary of State, in refer ence to committee rooms, referred to committee on accounts and ex penditures......................... 282 resolution of instruction of Mr. Wait to committee on militaiy 3ffairs, in reference to establishment of a military school, referred to com mittee on military affairs.......... 194 resolution of instruction of Mr. Wall to committee on printing and bind ing, in reference to cost of printing new constitution, referred to com milttee on printing and binding.... 704 resolution ot instruction of Mr. Wend lin g to committee on printing and binding, in reference to printing de bates in German, referred to com mittee on printing and binding.... 213 resolution of instruction of Mr. Wheaton to committee on miscel laneous subjects. in reference to construction of the word "office," referred to committee on miscella neous subjects...................ee tf 782 resolution of instruction of Mr. Wheaton to committee on town ship organization, in reference to boards of supervisors, referred to committee on township organiza tion. 155 resolution of instruction of Mr. Whit ing to judiciary committee, in refer enee to prevention of bribery in connection with public affairs, re ferred to judiciary committee.....93 r.lto.fisr.o.fM. +l93 resolution submitted by the presi dent in reference to the regulation and development of state railroads and canals, referred to committee on canal and canal lands.......... 1 476 RESOLUTIONS REPORTED sBACK-Con tirnned. resolution of Mr. McCoy to amend constitution in reference to eminent domain, reported back from com mittee on roads and internal navi gation, by Mr. P, rley............... 257 resolution,f Mr. Sherrill in reference to official fees and the eligibility of sheriffs to re-election, reported back from committee on township organ ization by Mr. Peirce, and referred to committee on counties.......... 245 resolution of Mr. Snyder in reference to legislative assembly, reported back from committee on legislative department by Mr. Allen, of Craw ford............................... 141 resolution of Mr. Turner in reference to per diem of members and officers of convention, reported back from committee on accounts and expen ditures of convention, and agreed to 99S resolution of Mr. Wells to establish bureau of statistics, reported back from committee on miscellaneous subjects by Mr. Underwood........ 252' resolution of instruction of Mr. Bryan in reference to corporate limits of towns and cities reported back from committee on miscella neous subjects by Mr. Underwood, and referred to committee on mu nicipal corporations............... 8586 resolution of instruction of Mr. Hay in reference to bribery on the pa,t of public officers, reported back from committee on miscellaneous subjects by Mr. Underwood........ 857 resolution of instruction of Mr. Pillsbury in reference to invest ment of funds of insurance com panies, reported back from commit tee on miiscel!aneous subjects by Mr. Underwood................... 257 resolution of instruction of Mr. Sharp to committee on judiciary to amend constitution in reference to sher iffs, referred to commt'itee on judi ary............................... 367 resolution of instruction of Mr. Sharp to committee on judicial circuits to amend constitution in reference to judicial circuits, referred to com mittee on judicial circuits......... 212 resolution of instruction of Mr. Sharp to committee on revenue in refer ence to Illinois Central Railroad, referred to committee on revenue. 193 resolution of instruction of Mr. Springer to committee on counties in reference to county seats, refer red to committee on counties..... 92 RETRENCHMENT AND REFORMo, COMi MITTEE ON appointment of..................... 75 debate on report from, in reference to convention and assembly expenses since 1862........ 226 to 2.30, 237 to 245 report from, in reference to conven tion and assembly expenses since 1862, submitted by Mr. Wait....... 226 resolution of Mr. Eldredge in refer ence to the foes of county clerks in certain cases, referred to........... 262 resolution of Mr. Haines, of Lake, in reference to per diem of members of convention during recess, referred to................................. 345 resolution of Mr. Haines, of Lake, in reference to salaries of public offi cers, referred to................... 100 resolution of Mr. Wendling to attend charity ball, referred to............ 182 resolution of instruction of Mr. Ellis to Secretary of State in reference to articles furnished to members of convention, referred to........I..... 260 resolution of instruction of Mr. Springer to committee on educa tion in reference to election of school superintendent, referred to committee on education........... 758' resolution of instruction of Mr. Springer to committee on future amenDaments in reierence to form of oath of office to members of future conventions, referred to committee on future amendments............ 193 resolution of instruction of Mr. Springer to committee on legisla tive department in reference to property exempted from execution, referred to committee on legisla tive department................... 180 resolution of instruction of Mr. Tur ner to committee on accounts and expenditures of convention, in ref erence to per diem of members and officers of convention, referred to committee on accounts and expen ditures of convention............. 895 REVENUE communication on the subject of.... 627 remarks in reference to reconsidera tion of section 6 of article on....... 1677 report from committee on revision and adjustment on article on...... 1834 and indebtedness of state, resolution of Mr. Wells in reference to....... 72 RESOLUTIONS REPORTED BACK resolution of Mr. Eldredge in refer ence to public highways, reported back from committee on roads and internal navigation, by Mr. Per le y...............vdit... 257 resolution of Mr. Hankins in refer ence to compensation for private property appropriated to public use, reported back from committee on roads and internal navigation, by Mr. Perley..................... 257 resolution of Mr King in reference to movable property of railroads, re ported back from committee on miscellaneous corporations, by Mr. McCoy, referred to committee on railroad corporations.............. 210 'INDEX. 102 RESOLUTIONS P.EFERRED-Continued. resolution of - instruction of Mr. Peirce to committee (,n legislative department in reference to special legislation, referred to committee on legislative department.......... 212 resolution Of instruction of Mr. Peirce, to committee on state institutions and public buildings, in reference to the appointment of board of public charities referred to com mittee on state institutions and public buildings................... 84 resolution of instruction of Mr. Pills bury to committee on judiciary to amend constitution in reference to court of common pleas, etc., re ferred to committee on judiciary.. 150 resolution of instruction of Mr. Pills bury to committee on mi,cellane ous subjects in reference to invest ment of funds of insurance compa nies, referred to committee on miscellaneous subjects............. 193 resolution of instruction of Mr. Rice to committee on printing and bind ing in reference to the establish ment of a state printing office, re ferred to committee on printing and binding............. 745 resolution of instruction i lar. Ross to -committee, on counties in refer ence to term of. county officers, re ferred to committee on counties... 193 resolution Of instruction of Mr. Ross to committee on executive in ref'er ence to term of state officers, re ferred to committee on executive.. 193 resolution of instruction of Mr. Sharp to committee on judiciary in refer ence to mechanics liens, referred to committee on judiciary......... 193 RESTRICTION OF LANDED ESTATE resolution of instruction of Mr. Haines, of Lake, to committee on manufactures and agriculture, in reference to....................... 1104 resolution of instruction of Mr. TJn derwood to committee on bill of rights, in reference to jury verdicts in civil cases, referred to committee on bill of lights......... 858 -resolution of instruciio"n"oi'id,. u. derwood to committee on future amendments, in reference to future CoDve,n tionr,, referred to committee on future amendments............ 78 resolution of instruction of Mr. Un derwood to judiciary committee, in reference to future amendments to constitution, referred to judiciary comnaittee.................!RI REVENUE, COMMITTEE ON appointment of...................... 7,5 communication in reference to the as sessuaent and collection of city taxes, referred to.................. 306 communication in reference to coun ty auditor, referred to............. 236 communication in reference to taxa tion, referred to............ 365, 479 communication from Alex.'9irne, trustee, etc., in reference to sale of lands belonzii3o to Joel A. Mat teson, referred to..........t........ 510 IDIX. 103 REVISION AND ADJUSTMENT, COM MITTEE ON-Continued. remarks of Mr. Cody on report from, on articles on suffrage, education, revenue, counties, corporations, militia, canals and warehouses.... 1834 remarks in reference to report from..1688i 1689 r REVISION AND ADJUSTMENT, COM MITTEE-Continued. resolution of Mr. Wall, in reference to employment of enrolling clerks by................................ 1845 resolution of instructien to of Mr. Church in reference to article on railroad corporations.............. 1723 resolution of instruction to of Mr. Goodhue, in reference to female suffrage........................... 1477 resolution of instruction to of Mr. Goodhue in reference to section 6 of article on right of suffrage...... 1662 resolution of instruction to of Mr. Goodhue in reference to section 6 of article on right of suffrage, called up and debated on....1725, 1726 resolution of instruction to of Mr. Haines, of Lake, in reference to im migration of colored people....... 1649 resolution of instruction to of Mr. Hay in reference to article on canal and canal lands.................... 1833 resolution of instruction to of Mr. Hay in reference to election of su preme and additional circuit court judges.......................1800 resolution of instruction to of Mr. Medill in reference to election of supreme court judges.............. 1675 resolution of instruction to of Mr. Neece in reference to section 11 of judiciary article................... 1763 resolution of instruction to of Mr. Peirce in reference to proposition of Mr. Browning, in regard to rail road and municipal indebtedness of Quincy, Ill........................ 1814 resolution of instruction to of Mr. Sedgwi(ckin reference to comparing enrolled constitution.............. 1859 resolution of instruction to of Mr. Wall in reference to election of masters in chancery............... 1789 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Whiting, in reference to article on warehouses....................... 1707 report from, in reference to section 1 of report from committee on suf frage, as amended in committee of the whole, submitted by Mr. Cody.1529 report from, on article on judiciary, submitted by Mr. Cody............1810 'report from, on articles on preamble, boundaries, bill of rights, distribu tion of powers, legislative and ex ecutive, submitted by Mr. Cody...1776 report from, on articles on suffrage, education, revenue, counties, cor porations, militia, canals and ware houses, submnitted by Mr. Cody...1834 report from committee on banks and currency, referred to.............. 1688 r report from committee on bill of rights, referred to................ 1590 report from committee on bill of rights in reference to preamble, re ferred to.....2...............elne 278 report from committees on canal and canal lands and on internal improve ments, referred to................. 487 report from committee on counties, referred to..........................1557 report from committee on education, referred to........................ 1761 report from committee on electoral and representative reform, referred to................................. 1729 report from committee on executive, referred to.........................1387 report from committee on finance, re ferred to..........................1787 report from committee on future amendments, referred to...........1595 report from committee on Judiciary, referred to.......................1500 report from committee on legislative department, referred to........... 972 report from committee on military af- fairs, referred to.................. 866 report from committee on miscella neous corporations, referred to.....1702 report from committee on miscellane ouC corporations in reference to wa rehouses, referred to............1701 report from committee on miscella neous subjects in reference to home stead exemptions, referred to......2 1692 report from committee on misc ellane ous subjects in reference to pream ble, referred to...................P eod a. 278 report from committee on municipal corporations, referred to........................1725 report from committee on public ac counts and expenditures in refer - ence to future appro priations f or state house, referred to............1774 report from committee on rail road corporations, referred to........... 1722 report from committee on rev enue, referred to........................ 1775 report from committee on right of suffrage, referred to............... 1309 REVENUE, COMMITTEE ON-Continued. communication from Auditor of State in reference t o the sale of lands belonging to Joel A. Matte son, referred to.................. 510 communication on the subject of rev nue, referred to................... 627 debate on report from..............1196 to 1202, 1242 t o 1280 debate in convention on report from, as amended in committee of the whole........ 1597 to 1621, 1774 to 1776 report from, submitted by Mr. Hay.. 321 report from, as amended, submitted by Mr. Hay........................ 1012 report from, referred to Committee on revision and adjustment........1775 resolution of Mr. Anthony in refer ence to general and special taxes, referred to........................ 154 resolution of Mr. Atkins in reference to "two-mill tax," referred to..... 175 resolution of Mr. Buxton in reference to uniform assessment of taxes, re ferred to.......................... 127 resolution of Mr. Haines, of Lake, in reference to sale and redemption of lands referred to.................. 192 resolution of Mr. Hildrup to amend constitution in reference to Ill. Cen tral seven per cent. tax, referred to................................. 193 resolution of Mr. Parker in reference to the abatement of taxes on real estate, referred to.................. 726 resolution of Mr. Sedgwick in refer ence to state credit, referred to.... 76 resolution of Mr. Sedgwick to-amend constitution in reference to assess inent of taxes for sidewalk purpo ses, etc., referred to............... 212 resolution of Mr. Snyder in reference to county collector and sheriff, re ferred to.......................... 93 resolution of Mr. Wagner in reference to proportionate taxation, referred to................................. 194 resolution -of instruction to, of Mr. Allen, of Crawford, in reference to taxation of church property used for other than religious purposes.. 213 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Allen, of Crawford, to amend con stitution in reference to taxation of telegraph stock, etc............... 263 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Coolbaugh in reference to taxation 211 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Cross in reference to the exemption of certain lands from taxation..... 481 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Ellis in reference to tax titles..... 260 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Parker, in reference to abolishment of state board of equalization...... 212 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Sharp, in reference to Illinois Cen tral Railroad......................:. 193 REVISION and titles of laws, resolution of Mr. Cody in reference t o,....... 116 future, of constitution, resolution of Mr. Parker ill reference to................ 176 of state laws, resolution of instruc tion of Mr. Eldredge to committee on judiciary, in reference to............... 194 RICE, EDWARD Y.-(a Delegate from the Nineteenth Representative District.) report from committee on roads and internal navigation, referred to... 894 report from committee on schedule, referred to......................... 1832 report from committee on state, county and municipal indebtedness, referred to........................1260 report from committee on township organization, referred to........... 882 f report from, on schedule, submitted by Mr. Cody.................. 1849, 1850 resolution of Mr. Cody, authorizing employment of clerk by..........1393 resolution of Mr. Cody in reference to appointment of additional mem bers of...........................1324 resolution of Mr. Haines, of Lake, in reference to statute laws of Illinois, referred to........................ 912 resolution of Mr. McDowell in refer ence to consideration of report from..............................1662 resolution of Mr. Vandeventer, of thanksto.......................a 1869 resolution of Mr. Wait in reference to wording of amendments to consti- l. tution, referred to................. 98 amendn o, to edment of, to amendment of Mr. Atkins to section 6 of majority re port from committee on counties.1334 amendment of, to resolution of Mr. Anthony in reference to election of delegate to convention in place of Hon. Wm. H. Patterson, deceased. 209 amendment of, to section 11 of article on corporations, as reported bv committee on revision and adjust ment.............................. 1838 amendment of, to section 8 of report from committee on counties, as amended in committee ofthe whole 1554 amendment of, to section 28 of report from committee on executive de partment.......................... 792 amendment of, to sections 32 and 36 of report from committee on legisla tive department............... 575, 612 amendment of, to section 5 of report from committee on railroad corpo rations, as amended in committee of the whole................. 1721 amendment of, to substitute of Mr. Church to resolution of Mr. Wells in reference to election of delegates to convention in place of Hon. Wm. H. Patterson, deceased............ 91g appointed member of committee on banks and currency............... 75 appointed member of committee on education........................ 75 appointed member of judiciary com mittee............................ 75 appointed member of committee on state, county and municipal indebt edness.................... 75 appointed member of committee to prepare address to the people of the state.......................... 1193 communication in reference to female suffrage, submitted by............. 156 leave of absence granted to.......... 479 8 95, 1i57 REVISION AND ADJUSTMENT, COM MITTEE ON appointment of...................... 75 article on boundaries, referred to.... 279 debate on report from, on article on judiciary................... 1810 to 1813 debate on report from, on articles on preamble, boundaries bill of rights, distribution of powers, legislature and eecutive 1776 to 1783 debate on report from, on articles on suffrage, education, revenue, coun ties, corporations, militia, canals and warehouses............1834 to 1840 proposition in reference to adoption of constitution, referred to........ 1833 proposition in reference to railroad and municipal indebtedness of Quincy, Illinois, referred to........ 1763 remarks on report from, on article on legislature........................ 1789 remarks on report from, in reference to section 1 of report from commit tee on suffrage, as amended inxom mittee of the whole.......... 1529,1530 1-I-27 i i INDEX. 103 REYNOLDS, H. G. elected secretary pro tem. of conven tion...............................6 104 INDEX. RICE, EDWARD Y.-Continued. RICE, EDWARD Y.-Continue RIGHT OF SUFFRAGE, COMMITTEE ON RICE, EDWARD Y.-Continued. remarks of. on additional section of fered. by Mr. Browning to report from miscellaneous subjects, in reference to divorce...............1207 remarks of, on announcement of the death of Hon. H. W. Billings......1450 remarks of. on announcement of death of Hon. W. H. Patterson.... 19V6 remarks of, on question of privilege. 589 remarks of, on resolution in reference to executive expenses.............. 76 remarks of, on resolution of instruc tion to committee on legislature, in reference to special acts ofincorpo ration........................: 172 remarks of, on substitute of Mr. Cam eron to resolution of Mr. Peirce in reference to additional pay to sec retaries of convention.............1869 resolution in reference to election of delegate to convention in place of Hon. W. H. Patterson, deceased... 200 resolution in reference to executive expenses.......................... Wsbr 76 resolution in reference to fees of county officers 116..................... 116 resolution in reference to use of hall of representatives for lecture...... 294 resolution of inquiry to Auditor of State in reference to the cost of registration for the years 1868 and 1869........................ t e e261 resolution of instruction to commit tee on legislature in reference to special and private acts of incorpo ration............................. 172 resolution of instruction to commit tee on printing and binding, in re ference to the establishment of a state printing office...............1 745 resolution to prohibit school officers from publishing school books, etc. 192 substitute of, to substitute of Mr. Hay to amendment of Mr. Haves, to section 1 of report from committee on judiciary, as amended in com mittee of the whole.......... 1398, 1400 RIGHT OF SUFFRAGE, COMMITTEE ON -Continued. report from committee on revision and adjustment in reference to sec tion 1 of report from, as amended in committee of the whole, submit ted by Mr. Cody................... 1529 resolution of Mr. Bayne in reference to right of suffrage, referred to.... 100 resolution of Mr. Camneron in refer ence to present system of number. ing ballots, referred to............ 98 resolution of Mr. English in reference to female and negro suffrage, re ferred to.......................... 212 resolution of Mr. Hay to postpone special order in reference to consid eration of report from............. 560 resolution of Mr. Haines, of Lake, in reference to right of suffrage, re ferred to.......................... 127 resolution of Mr. Sedgwick in refer ence to right of suffrage, referred to........................ 73a resolution of Mr. W'ashburn in refer ence to right of soldiers to vote, referred to........................ 100 resolution of Mr. Wright in reference to suffrage, referred to............ 8X resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Cummings, in reference to female suffrage........................... 532 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Cummings, in reference to submis sion of female suffrage proposition. 533 RIGHTS and duties of individuals and associa tions, resolution of Mr. Buxton in reference to....................... 1277 of the people in regard to the internal government of thie state, resolution of Mr. Cummings in reference to.. 281 of private corporations, resolution of Mr. Scholfield in reference to...... 67 of private corporations, resolution of Mr. Schol-eld in reference to, called up and referred to committee on judiciary......................... 88 and privileges of the people, etc., resolution of Mr. Underwood in reference t o..................... 100 of stockholders, amendment to con stitution in reference to........... 139 of women, petition in reference to... 826 RIGHT- of appeal, resolution of Mr. Brown ing in reference to................ 72 of prisoners' counsel in criminal tri als, resolution of instruction of Mr. Vandeventer to committee on bill of rights, in reference to........... 321 of soldiers to vote, resolution of Mr. Washburn in reference to.......... 100 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on mis cellaneous subjects, in reference to homestead exemptions, as amended in committee of the whole......... 1690 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on rail road corporations, as amended in committee of the whole....1710 1711, 1721 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on right:~~ of suffrage, as amended in commit tee of the whole............ 1286, 1287 remarks of, in debate on amendment of Mr. Merriam to resolution of in quiry of Mr. Fox to State Auditor, in reference to expenses of general assembly since 1862................ 69 remarks of, in debate on article in ref erence to subscriptions to capital stock of private corporations...... 1237 remarks of, in debate on motion of Mr. Church to refer to committee on judiciary his resolution in refer ence to control of railroads in res pect to rates of transportation..... 149 remarks of, in debate on report from committees on canal and canal lands and on internal improve ments....... 358, 360, 361, 416, 475, 476 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on counties...........1340 1343, 1362 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on education.....1733, 1736 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on executive depart ment............ 753, 755, 756, 765, 787 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on judiciary............ 985 990, 1028, 1054,.1065, 1066, 1083 1086, 1087, 1100, 1126, 1144 1167 1173, 1174, 1222, 1228 RIGHT OF SUFFRAGE petition in reference to.............. 479 resolution of Mr. Bayne in reference t o...........................00...... 100 resolution of Mr. Haines, of Lake, in reference to........................127 ROADS communication in reference to, sub mitted by Mr. Wells............... 100 private, majority report from com mittee on roads and internal navi gation, in reference to............ 257 private, minority report from com mittee on roads and internal nav gation, in reference to............. 257 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on legislative depart mett..........................579, 586 604, 617, 620, 630, 635, 661, 682, 725 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on printing and binding in reference to printing and binding convention debates............ 105, 106 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on retrenchment and reform in reference to convention and assembly expenses since 1862.. 241 242 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on revenue. 1244, 1248, 1275 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on state, county and municipal indebtedness........... 214 219, 303, 841, 848 remarks of, in debate on resolution of Mr. Allen, of Crawford, in refer ence to printing veto messages.... 151 remarks oi, in denate on resolution of Mr. Church in reference to oath of office.............................. 11 remarks of, in debate on resolution of Mr. Church to adopt rule 49 in ref erence to the effect of tabling amendments...................... 185 remarks of, in debate on resolution of Mr. Wells, in reference to election of delegate to convention in place of Hon. W. H. Patterson, deceased 198 202, 205 remarks of, in debate on resolution of instruction of Mr. Allen, of Craw ford, to committee on revenue, in reference to taxation of church property used for other than relig ious purposes...................... 224 remarks of, in debate on the subject of printing prayers offeredein con vention........................... 17 RIGHT OF SUFFRAGE, COMMITTEE ON appointment o f................ 75 communications in refeence to fe male suffrage, referred to, (2)......129 communication in reference to the right of suffrage of foreigners, re ferred to.......................... 679 debate on report from.........1280, 1281 debate in convention, on report from, as amended in committee of the whole................. 1281 to 1309 majority report from, submitted by Mr. Dement................ 159, 855 memorial in reference to female suf frage, referred to.................. 679 minority report from, submitted by Mr. Haines, of Lake...........157, 856 minority report from, submitted by Mr. McDowell.................... 856 petition in reference to female suf frage, referred to.........451 479, 487, 510, 560, 613, 107, 1842 petition in reference to right of suf frage, referred to.........9...... 479 petition in reference to the rights of women, referred to................ 826 petition in reference to suffrage, re ferred to.......................... 5E1 petition against female suffrage, re- ferred to (2).................... 1477 remonstrance against female suffrage, referred to.......................1840 report from, referred to committee on revision and adjustment............ 1309 104: INDEX. RICE, EDWARD Y.-Continued. remarks of, in,debate in convention on report from committee on coun ties, as amended in committee of the whole................... 1552, 1554 remarksof, in debate in convention on report from committee on educa tion, as amended in committee of the whole................... 1756,1757 remarks of, in debate in convetion on report from committee on judici ary, ar, amended in committee of the whole............... I'c97 1402, 1404, 1479, 14'96 ROADS AND INTERNAL NAVIGATION, COMMITTEE ON appointment of..................... 75 communication in reference to roads, referred to........................ 117 communication on the subject of pri vate ways, referred to............. 117 debate on report from committee on.......................... 883 to 894 majority report from, in reference to private roads, submitted by Mr. Perley............................ 257 minority report from, in reference to private roads, submitted by Mr. Sedgwick......................... 257 petition in reference to highways, re ferred to.......................... 637 remarks of Mr. Church on amend ment of Mr. Fox to minority report from, in reference to private roads. 958 report from, referred to committee on revision and adjustment........ 894 resolution of Mr. Eldredge in refer ence to public highways, referred to................................ 176 resolution of Mr. Eldredge in refer ence to public highways, reported back from......................... 257 resolution of Mr. Hankins in refer e ce to compensation for private property appropriated for public use, referred to..........p.......... 192 -~~~~JDX 10 ROADS AND INTERNAL NAVIGATION, ROSS, LEWIS W -Coafinued ROSS, LEWIS W.-Continued.~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~. ROSS, LEWIS W —Continued amendment of, to resolution of in quiry of Mr. English to county clerks in reference to railroads..... 182 amendment of, to section 10 of arti cle on counties, as reported by com mittee on revision and adjustment. 1846 amendment of, to section 6 of re port from committee on banks and currency..........................1679 amendment of, to sections 6 and 15 of report from committee on bill of rights....................... 1568, 1576 amendment of, to section 7 of report from committee on counties, as amended in committee of the whole............................ 1516 amendment of, to section 9 of report from committee on executive de Ipartment........................... 775 amendment of, to sections 26, 29 and 36 of report from comtnittee on ju. diciary............. 1107, 1145,1171, 1215 ROSS, LEWIS W.-Continued. remarks of, in debate in convention on report from commit tee on state, counl'y and municipal indebtedness, as amended in committee of the whole............................. 1259 remarks of, in debate. on article in ref erence to municipal subscriptions to capital stock of private corpora tions.............................. 1236 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on banks and currency.1681 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on bill of rights........ 1568 remarks of, in debate on report from committees on canal and canal lands and on internal improve ments............................. 43 433, 434, 435, 436, 437, 471, 472 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on count-es............ 1333 1357, 1358 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on executive depart ment............................. 816 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on finance......... 1771,1785 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on future amendments.1314 1315, 1316 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on judiciary............ 1105 1112, 1118, 1156, 2171, 1221 ROBINSON, JAS. P.-(a Delegate from the Twelfth Representative District.) a mendment of, to section 12 of report from committee on judiciary....... 1040 amendment of, to section three of re port from committee on legislative department, as amended in commit tee of the whole................... 993 appointed member of committee on banks and currency................ 75 appointed member of committee on bill of rights...................... 75 appointed member of committee on revenue........................ 75 appointed member of committee on schedule........................ 75 leave of absence granted to........1338, 1502 memorial in reference to female suf frage, submitted by................ 679 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on legis. lative department, as amended in committee of the whole............. 939 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on executive depart. ment.............................. 762 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on judiciary.1040, 1095, 1102 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on legislative depart ment.......................... 501, 502 resolution in reference to employ ment of postmaster during recess of convention..................... 1208 resolution to amend constitution in reference to eligibility to office of legal -oters....................... 212 amendment of, to section 36 of report from committee on judiciary, as amended in committee of the whole............................ 1478 amendment of, to sections 2 and 4 of report from committee on legisla tive department............... 500, 730 amendment of, to section 1 of report from committee on military affairs. 861 amendment of, to section 1 of report from committee on railroad corpo rations............................;1637 amendment of, to section 9 of report from committee on schedule....... 1801 amendment of, to section 31 of report from committee on schedule, as amended in committee of the whole.............................183 1 amendment of, to section 4 of report from committee on state, county and municipal indebtedness........ 847 amendment of, to substitute of Mr. Fuller to section 2 ofminority report from committee on future amelnd ments.. 131,.......... a, 1316 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on legislative depart Iment........509, 523, 551, 665, 666 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on military affairs...861, 866 remarks of, in debate on report fromn committee on railroad corpora tions.............................. 1943 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on revenue........ 1275, 1278 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on schedule............1801 remarks of, in debate on report froin committee on state, county and municipal indebtedness............ 838 remarks of, in debate on resolution of Mr. Allen, of Crawford, in reference to printing veto messages.......... 151 remarks of, in debate on resolution of Mr. Turner, in reference to conven tion printing...................... 92 remarks of, in debate on resolution of Mr. Wagner, in reference to com mittee rooms...................... 488 remarks of, in debate on the subject of recess of convention............ 866 remarks of, in reference to election of supreme court judges............. 1799 remarks of, in reference to order of business........................... 1199 remarks of, in reference to report from committee on revision and ad justment.......................... 1688 remarks of, on question of privilege. 1155 1156 remarks of, in reference to expenses of convention..................... 1787 remarks of, on resolution of Mr. SVall in reference to employment of en rolling clerks by commnrittee on re vision and adjustment............. 1846 amendment of, to substitute of Mr. Hanna to section 4 of report from rom mittee on state, county and mu nicipal indebtedness............... 838 amendment of, to substitute of Mr. Turner to section 22 of report from committee on executive depart ment.............................. 817 amendment of, to substitute of Mr. Wells to report from committee on printing and binding, in reference to printing constitution and ad dress.............................1844 appointed member of committee on coun ties........................... 75 appointed member of committee on finance............................ 75 appointed member of committee on judiciary divisions of the state.... 1103 appointed member of committee on legislature........................ 75 appointed member of committee on rules of convention.............. r 56 appointed member of committee to prepare address to the people of the state.......................... 1783 appointed member of committee to select committee to prepare address to the people of the state.........1732 bill from postmaster of Springfield, submitted by....1.................1529 leave of absence granted to.......77, 912 remarks of. in debate in convention on report from committee on mis cellaneous subjects, in reference to homestead exemptions, as amended in committee of the whole........1690 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on rail road corporations, as amended in committee of the whole......1709,1711 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on rev- - enue, as amended in committee of the whole................... 1609, 1614r remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on right of suffrage, as amended in commit tee of the whole.............1289 1290 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on sched ule, as amended in committee of the whole......................... 1820 ROLL CALL OF CONVENTION on election of first and second assist ant doorkeepers of................ 52, 53 on election of secretary and asssist ant secretaries of................. 51, 52 on election of postmaster and assist ant postmaster of................... 54 on election of president and secreta ry pro tem, of..................... 6 on election of president of........... 50 on organization of................... 1 on motion of Mr. Cross for call of...1087 on re-assembling of................... 1232 to ascertain the presence of a quor um................................ 1233 remarks of, on resolution of Mr. Wheaton in reference to limitation of debate in committee of the whole............................. 614 report from committee on finance, su!mitted by................. 1771,1776 report from committee on rules, on the subject of amending rules of convention, su bmitted by.......... 1233 resolution in reference to pardoning power of Governor................ 151 resolution of instruction to commit tee on counties, in reference to term of county officers............ 193 resolution of instruction to commit tee on executive department, in reference to terms of state officers. 193' resolution of'instruction to commit tee on rules, in reference to the facilitation of business............1233 resolution to modify resolution in reference to stationery furnished to members of convention............ 261 substitute of, to resolution of Mr. Raines, ot Lake, in reference to recess of convention.............. 866 I INDEX. 105 ROADS AND INTERNAL NKVIGATION, COMMITTEE ON-Continued. resolution of Mr. Hankins in refer ence to compensation for private property appropriated for public use, reported back from........... 257 resolution of Mr. McCoy to amend constitution in reference to eminent domain, referred to................ 186 resolution of Mr. McCoy to amend constitution in reference to eminent domain, reported back from....... 257 resolution of Instruction to, of Mr. Wall. in reference to private roads. 135 ROAD TAX communication in reference to....... 589 ROBERTSON, REV. MR. prayer offerred by................... 2'7 343, 1052,, 1814, 1840 closing prayer offered by............ 1870 .ROCK ISLKND communication from stonecutters' association of, in reference to con vict labor...................... 118, 191 ROSS, LEWIS W.-(A Delegate from the Thirty-fifth Representative District). additional section to report from committee on bill of rights, offered by................................ 1587 amendment of, to amendment of Mr. Ray, to section 1 of report from committee on right oT suffrage as amended in committee of the whole............................. 1284 amendment of. to article in reference to subscriptions to capital stock of private corporations............... 1241 amendment of, to resolution of Mr. Hay, in reference to election of su. preme court judges............... 1799 amendment of, to resolution of Mr. urner, in reference to conve4 Uo n printing........................... 94 106 JNDEX~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~.~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ROS LEI..Cond RUE,CMITEO-otne. SCEUE OMTE NCniud RULES, COMMITTEE ON-Continued. resolution of Mr. Church to adopt rule 49, in reference to the effect of tabling amendments, referred to... 188 resolution of Mr. Eldredge in regard to reference of amendments, etc., to constitution to committees, re ferred to..........................11 176 resolution of Mr. King to amend rule 44,with regard to order of busi ness, called up and referred to... e. 173 resolution of Mr. McDowell in refer ence to consideration of report from committee on revision and ad iustment, referred to..............1662 resolution of Mr. Sharp to adopt rule 50, limiting speeches, referred to.............................. 260 resolution of Mr. Snyder in referent. to sessions of convention, referred to.................................'260 resolution of Mr. Wells in reference to adoption of amendments to con stitution, referred to..............1156 resolution of instruction to of Mr. Rpss, in reference to the facilitation of business........................ 1233 SCHEDULE, COMMITTEE ON-Con t inued. communication in reference to man ner of submission of new constitu tion, referred to.................. 280 d ebate on report from.................1791 to 1810 debate in convention on report trom, as amended in committee of the whole.................... 1819 to 1832 Mr. Cross excused from serving on..1827 proposition of Mr. Cross in reference to removal of county seats, referred to................................ 1723 report from, submitted by Mr. Me dill............................. 1791 report from, referred to committee on revision and adjustment........ 1832 resolution of Mr. Haines, of Lake, in reference to adjournment, sine die of convention, referred to... 1649 resolution of Mr. Haines, of Lake, in reference to submission of constitu tion, referred to................... 1596 resolution of Mr. Parks in reference to adjournment, sine die, of conven tion, referred to.................. 1677 resolution of Mr. Wagner in reference to adjournment, sine die, of conven tion, referred to................... 1596 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Fox, in reference to manner of sub mission of new constitution...... 192 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Wall, in reference to separate sub mission of articles of constitution.1796 RULE -requiring two-thirds vote in conven tion, submitted by Mr. Skinner.... 1841 requiring two-thirds vote in conven tion, remarks on.................. 1841 in regard to presentation of resolu tions, remarks of Mr. Dement in reference to repeal of...............49tnof 895 remarks of Mr. Allen, of Crawford, on report from committee on rules, in reference to amendment of...... 191 44, report from committee on rules in reference to amendment of........ 191 44, resolution of Mr. King to amend, in regard to order of business..... 169 44, resolution of Mr. King to amend, in regard to order of business, called up and referred to committee on rules........................... 1]73 49, report from committee on rules in reference to the adoption of..... 250 49, resolution of Mr. Church to adopt, in reference to the effect of tabling amendments...................... 184 50. remarks in reference to the adop tion of, limiting speeches.......... 509 50, remarks on submission of report from committee on rules in refer ence to the adoption of, limiting speeches.......................... 490 50, report from committee on rules in reference to the adoption of, limiting speeches.................. 499 50. limiting speeches, resolution of Mr. Sharp to adopt................. 260 SABBATH petition in reference to the observ ance of.................................. 389 49", eo fm351, 479, 510, 560, 613 679, 702,, 703, 745, 1129 petitions in reference to observance of, reported back from committee on miscellaneous subjects......... 789 remarks of Mr. Underwood in refer ence to report from committee on miscellaneous subjects, on the sub ject of the observance of I.I....7.......... 798 report from committee on miscellane ous subjects, in reference to observ ance of............................ 798 SCHOLFIELD, JOHN-(a Delegate from the Seventeenth Representative District.) additional section to report from committee on counties, as amended in committee of the whole, offered by................................ 155 additional section to report from committee on township organiza tion, offer ed by.................. 881 amendment of, to amendment of Mr. Browning to section 12 of report f rom committee on judiciary, as amended in committee o f the whole............................. 14906 amendment of, to lines 22, 23, 26 and 28, of section 33, of report from committee on legislative depart ment.......................... 583, 608 amendment of, to resolution of Mr. Underwood in reference to essay on the origin of the prairies.......... 482 amendment of, to section 4 of report from committee on counties....... 1330 amendment of, to section 6 of report from committee on counties, as amended in committee of the whole............................. 1542 amendment of, to section 13 of report from committee on j ldiciary...... 1128 amendment of, to section 13 of report from committee on judiciary, as amended in committee of the whole............................. 1410 amendment of, to section 20 of report from committee on legislative de partment.......................... 531 amendment of, to sections 1 and 2 of report from committee on miscella neous suibje cts in reference to home stead exemptions............... 904, 911 appointed member of committee oh congressional apportionment...... 75 appointed member of judiciary com mittee....................... 75 appointed member of committee on judicial divisions of the state......1103 appointed member of committee on miscellaneous corporations....... 7.5 appointed member or committee on schedule.......................... 75 leave of absence granted to......... 253 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on co,n ties, as amended in committed of the whole:............;1523, 1532, 1542 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on exec utive, as amended in committee of the whole........................ 1881 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on judi ciary, as amended in committee of the whole....... 1395, 1406, 1464, 1469 remarks of, in debate ir convention on report from committee on right of suffrage, as amendedqn commit SALARY and tenure of office, resolution of Mr. Anthony in reference to....... 211 SALARIES of circuit judges for certain services rendered, communication from Au ditor of State in reference to...... 280 of circuit judges, resolution of in quiry of Mr. Atkins to State Treas urer in reference to, for certain ser vices rendered..................... 98 public officers, resolution of Mr. An thony in reference to.............. 67 of public officers, resolution of Mr. Haines, of Lake, in reference to... 100 of State officials, resolution of Mr. Bromwell in reference to..................... 282 of State officials, resolution of in struction of Mr. Atkins in refer ence to............................ 260 RULES additional standing, offered by Mr. Haines, of Lake.................. 78 additional standing, offered, debate on.............................. 78, 79 remarks in reference to amendment of............................ 1368,1369 of convention, in reference to town ship and county organization, re marks on....................... 73, 74 of convention, remarks on report froii committee,n rules, in refer ence to amending................. 1234 of convention, report from commit tee on riles, in reference to amend mg............................... 1233 of convention, resolution of Mr. Al len, of Crawford, to appoint com mittee to prepare................. 51 of convention, resolution of Mr. Tur ner- in reference to................. 9 of evidence, resolution of instruction of Mr. Abbott to committee on judiciary, in reference to.......... 858 of evidence, resolution of instruction of Mr. Archer to committee on ju diciary, in reference to............ 78 SALE of intoxicating liquors, communica tion in reference to................ 320 of intoxicating liquors, petition in reference to...................5.344, 451 of intoxicating liquor, resolution of Mr. Pillsbury in reference to....... 151 of lands belonging to Joel A. Matte son, communication from Alexan der Starne, trustee, etc., in refer ence to............................ 510 of lands belonging to Joel A. Matte son, communication from Auditor of State in reference to........... 510 of the products of penitentiary labor, communication in reference to..... 451 of property for debt, resolution of Mr. Wall in reference to........... 615 and redemption of land, resolution of Mr. Haines of Lake, in reference to 192 SCHEDULE-t debate on report from committee on r revision and adjustment, on.......1949 to 1859 report from committee on revision and adjustment, on.........1849,1850 SCHEDULE, COMMITTEE ON appointment of..................... 75 article in reference to municipal sub scriptions to capital stock of pri vate corporations, referred to....1730 INDE. 106 ROSS, LEWIS.W.-Continued. .substitute of, to section 4 of report from committee on railroad corpo rations............................ 1643 substitute of, to section 6 of report from committee on revenue. .....1274 substitute of, to section 6 of;eport from committee on revenue, as amended in committee of the whole............................. 1609 RULES, COMNFITTEE ON appointment of..................... 56 debate on report from............ 59, 60 remarks on report from, in reference to the adoption of rule 50, limiti]3g speeches.......................... 490 remarks on report from, in reference to amending rules of convention...1234 report from, submitted by Mr. Cool baugh............................. 58 report from, in reference to adoption of rule 44, submitted by Mr. Allen, of Crawford....................... 191 report from, in reference to adoption ofrule 49, submitted by Mr. Cfiurch 250 report from, in referece to the adop tion of rule 50, limiting speeches, submitted by Mr. Bromwell........ 490 report from, on the subject of amend iDg the -rules of convention, sub mitted by Mr. Ross............... 1233 resolution of Mr. Church in reference to consideration of reldorts of com.mittees, called up an(f reftrred to. 745 JNDEX. 107 SCHOOLS- SE resolution of Mr. Snyder in reference to corporal punishment in.........1078 common, petition in reference to use of bible in...................1103,.1129 SEC common, resolution of Mr. Anthoiny in reference to.................... 965 common, resolution of Mr. Wagner in reference to.................... 261 free, resolution of Mr. Parker to amend constitution in reference to. 212 free, resolution of Mr. Springer in ref erence to.....................176 separate, for white and colored chil dren, resolution of Mr. Washburn in reference to..................... 679 separate, for white and colored chil dren, resolution of Mr. Washburn in reference to, called up and acted upon............................. 703 SCHOLFIELD, JOHN-Continued. te e of the whole.................. 1300 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on counties............1326 1330, 1331 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on executive depart ment.................. 765, 766, 807, 808 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on judiciary............ 1106 1107, 1128, 1131, 1132, 1188 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on legislative depart uient............. 523, 528, 549, 552, 583 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on miscellaneous sub jects in reference to homestead ex emptions.......................... 897 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on state, county and municipal indebtedness............ 215 301, 302, 305' remarks of, in debate on resolution of Mr. Church in reference to oath of office.............................. 11 remarks of, in debate on resolution of Mr. Wagner in reference to com mittee rooms...................... 489 remarks of, in debate on resolution of Mr. Wells in reference to election of delegate to convention in place of Hon. Wm. H. Patterson, de ceased............................. 205 remarks of, in debate on the subject of convention printing............11 83 remarks of, in reference to order of business...........................1198 remarks of, on complimentary resolu tion of Mr. Whiting in reference to essay on- the origin of the prai ries............................... 488 remarks of, on motion of Mr. McCoy to print report from committee on state, county and municipal indebt edness............................. 189 remarks of, on resolution of Mr. Turner in reference to furnishing manuals to convention............ 187 remarks of, on resolution of Mr. Wells to purchase 200 copies of manual............................ 145 remarks of, on resolution of instruc tion of Mr. Rice to committee on legislature in reference to special and private acts of incorporation.. 172 resolution in reference to passage of general and special laws by general assembly.......................... 116 resolution in reference to passage of local or special laws in certain cases.........^.................. 127 resolution in reference to rights of private corporations............... 67 resolution in reference to rights of private corporations, taken up and referred to judiciary committee.... 88 resolution to amend constitution in reference to extra compensation of public officers..................... 154 resolution to amend constitution in reference to removal of county stats..a..................e..........* we * * 1 74 substitute of, to sectio~n 23 of report from committee ton judiciary....,...1106 substitute of, to section 18 of report from comlmittee on juldiciary, as amended in committee of the whole............................. 1408 substitute of, to sectio~n 1 of report from committee on miscellaneous subjects in- reference to homestead exemptions...................................... 902 SCHOOL STATISTICS communication from Superintendent of Public Instruction in reference to.......................05, 332 resolution of inquiry of Mr. Moore to Superintendent of Public Instruc tion in reference to................ 193 resolution of instruction of Mr. Springer to Superintendent of Pub lic Instruction in reference to..... 322 appointment of committee of inves tigation in regard to communica tion fi-om, in reference to station ery furnished to convention....... 182i communication from, in reference to additional employes.......... 1075, 1076 communication from, in reference to committee rooms.................. 451 communication from, inureference to his duties, etc..................... 166 communication from, in reference to the number of penitentiary con victs pardoned during the past ten years............................. 306 communication from, in reference to stationery furnished to convention.1815 remarks on communication from, in reference to stationery furnished to convention................ 1816 to 1819 resolution of Mr. Anthony directing to furnish official stenographers with necessary materials.........72, 81 resolution of Mr. Parks to refer re port from committee on investiga tion on accounts of,to the Governorl865 resolution of inquiry to of Mr. An deacon in reference to amount of stationery furnished to conven tioa............................... 533 resolution of inquiry to of Mr. Archer in reference to convicts par doned during the past ten years... 57 resolution of inquiry to of Mr. Cum mings in reference to committee rooms............................. 451 resolution of inquiry to of Mr. De ment in reference to expenses of two last sessions of general assem bly................................ 91 State Treasurer and Auditor, resolu tion- of inquiry to of Mr. Goodhue, in reference to their services and fees....................... 146 resolution of inquiry to of Mr. Han na, in reference to state printing, etc................................ 67 resolution of inquiry to of Mr. Moore, in reference to extra employes.... 1022 resolution of inquiry to of Mr. Wag ner, in reference to committee rooms............................. 282 resolution of instruction to of Mr. Ellis, in reference to articles fur nished to members of convention.. 260 and Auditor of Public Accounts, res olution of instruction to of Mr. Moore, in reference to convention accounts.......................... 1230 resolution of instruction to of Mr. Turner, in reference to publication of journal of convention.......... 213 SCOTT, REV. MR. prayer offered by................744, 1152 SEATS resolution of Mr. Anthony in refer ence to drawing of................ 28 SECTION 6 of article on revenue, remarks in reference to reconsideration of.....1677 6 of article on right of suffrage, reso lutioni of instruction of Mr. Good. hue to committee on revision and adjustment in reference to........1662 6 of article on right of suffrage, r eso. lution of instruction of Mr. Good hue to committee on revision and adjustment in reference to, called up and debated on...........1725, 1726 11 of judiciary article, resolution of instruction of Mr. Neece to commit tee on revision and adjustment in reference to.......................1763 39 of report from committee on judi ciary, resolution of Mr. Cary to postpone further consideration of..1180 SECTARIAN- appropriations, communication from Illinois conference of the M. E. I church on the subject of........... 118 appropriations, resolution of Mr. Cary in reference to............... 85. preferences, petition in reference to.. 798 SECRET SOCIETIES petition on the subject of............1634 SECRETARY OF CONVENTION reading of enrolled constitution by...1869 resolution of Mr. English, instruct i ng to deliver to coimmittee on finance certain letters received from county clerks in reference to rail roads.............................. 260 resolution of Mr. Medill, to furnish postage stamps to.............. 1231 resolution of Mr. Wendling, to fur nish postage stamps to............ 1231 resolution of Mr. Wendling in refer ence to furnishing additional post age stamps to..................... 367 Washington's farewell address, read by.......................... 795 SEDGWICK, WESTEL W.-(a Delegate from the Fifty-first Representative District.) additional section to report from corn mitte on right ot suffrage, as amended in committee of the whole, offered by.................. 1296 amendment of, to amendment of Mr. Snyder to section 5 of report from commnittee on counties, as amended in committee of the whole........1542 amendment of, to amendment of Mr. Tubbs to section 2 of report from committee on miscellaneous corpo rations, in reference to warehouses, as amended in committee of the whole...............................1699 amendment of, to amendment of Mr. Wright to section 6 of majority re port from committee on counties..1339 amendment of, to resolution of Mr. English in reference to distribution of committee reports.............. 308 amendment of, to section 1 of report from committee on bill of rights...1559 amendment of, to section 6 of report from committee on counties....... 1332 amendment of, to section 20 of report from committee on executive, as amended in committee of the whole.............................. 1387 amendment of, to sections 1, 11, 13, 18, 29 and 36 of report from com mittee on judiciary................ 981 1039, 1127, 1133, 1074,. 1078 1091, 1093, 1445, 1172 SECRETARIES OF CONVENTION pro tern., election of.................. 6 election of...................51, 52bl remarks in reference to additional pay to....................... 1865, 1868 resolution of Mr. Cummings, of thanks to.................................1845 resolution of Mr. Peirce in reference to additional pay of.............. 1860 resolution of Mr. Skinner in reference to employment of during irecess of convention........................1.190 pro tern., roll call on election of.......10,1,1,. 6 roll call-on election of.............51, 52 SCEOOL books, etc., resolution of Mr. Rice to prohibit school officers from pub lishing............................ 193 fund, public, resolution of instruction of Mr. Haines, of Lake, to commit tee on education, in reference to... 281 funds, resolution of Mr. Buxton in reference to control o f 127 officers, resolution of Mr. Rice to pro hibit from publishing school books, etc............................,... 193 superintendent, resolution of instruc tion of Mr. Springer to committee on education in reference to election of................................. 758 system of state, resolution of instruc tion of Mr. Wagner to committee on education to amend constitution in reference to..................... 179 I-28 I i INDEX. 107 108 ~ ~ I N...................... SEDGWICK, WESTEL WA Continued. amendment of, to sections 18 and 22 of report from committee on judi ciary, as amended in committee of the whole...................1408,1467 amendment of, to section 19 of report from committee on legislative de partment, as amended in committee of the whole...................... 952 amendment of, to section 2 of report from committee on miscellaneous subjects, in reference to homestead exemptions...................... 910 amendment of, to substitute of Mr. Fuller to section 6 of report from committee on counties.............1340 amendment of, to substitute of Mr. Wells to section 16 of report from committee on judiciary............1056 SEDGWICK, WESTEL W.-.Continued. remarks of, on proposition in refer ence to railroad and municipal in debtedness of Quincy, Ill.......... 1762 remarks of, on question of privilege....Cayireeec 1527 remarks of, on resolution in reference to furnishing newspapers to mem pbers of convention.............125, 169 resolution in reference to adjourn ment............................. 87m resolution in reference to appropria tion of private property........... 429 resolution in reference to daily prayer in i convention..................... 56 resolution in reference to exemption,,. of manufacturing companies from taxation........................... 100 resolution in reference to furnishing M members of convention with addi tional copies of debates............ 1339 resolution in reference to furnishing newspapers to members of conven tion......................125, 169 resoluton in reference to ineligibility of office holders to general assembly or future conventions............. 76 resolution in reference to the passage of local or special laws in certain cases.............................. 76 resolution in reference to the publio Eecation of the laws in county news papers............................. 212 resolution in reference to right of suf frage.............................. 736 resolution in reference to state credit 76 rr resolution of instruction to commit tee on revision and adjustment in reference to comparing enrolled constitution.......................1859 resolution to amend constitution in reference to assessment of taxes for sidewalk purposes, etc............. 212 - resolution to amend constitution in reference to pardoning power of b'5 Governor.......................... 193 resolution to appoint committee to prepare address to the people of the state..............................1708 subs titute of, to additional section to report from committee on right of suffrage, as amended in committee of the whole, offered by........... 1299 substitute of, to section 4 of report from committee on education......76 FrherstteD 1736 substitute of, to section 4 of report from committee on executive, as amended in committee of the whole.1378 substitute of, to section 13 of report from committee on judiciary.... 1187 SESSIONS-Continued. evening, of convention, remarks in reference to holding........... 374, 375 evening, of convention, resolution of Mr. Cary in eereference to........... 1087 evening, of convention, resolution of Mr. Peirce in reference to.......... 1477 evening, of convention, resolution of Mr. Wheaton in reference t o....... 402 morning, of convention, resolution of Mr. Church in reference to......... 1232 morning, of convention, resolution of Mr. Church in reference to, called up................................ 13 morning, of convention, resolution of Mr. Vandeventer in reference to... 702 morning, of convention, resolution of Mr. Vandeventer in reference to, called up and acted upon.......... 703 morning, of convention, resolution of Mr. Washburn in reference to...... 835 morning, of convention, resolution of Mr. Washburn in reference to, called u p........................ 852 of general assembly and compensa tion of members of, resolution of instruction of Mr. Ellis to commit tee on legislature in reference to... 83 SETTLEMENT of printing and reporting accounts, report from committee on accounts and expenditures of convention in reference to....................... 1860 of printing and reporting accounts, report from committee on printing and binding in reference to........1860 SEVEN PER CENT. TAX of Illinois Central railroad, resolution of Mr. Hildrup to amend constitu tion in reference to................ 193 of Illinois Central railroad, resolution of Mr. Washburn in reference to application of.,,.............. 19 8EVENTEI DAY petitions in reference to observance of......,:@ *.+........+..... of*110814? appointed member of committee on railroad corporations.............. 75 appointed member of committee on roads and internal navigation...... 75 appointed member of committee on township organization............ 75 article in reference to future appro priations for state house, submitted by................................ 130 communication in reference to the use of English language by physicians and lawyers, submitted by......... 280' leave of absence granted to.......... 736 minority report from committee on roads and internal navigation in reference to private roads, submit ted by............................. 257' petition in reference to the formation of a new county, submitted by.... 451 petition in reference to jurisdiction of 1 justices of the peace, submitted by. 344; petition in reference to the obser. vance of the Sabbath, submitted by................................ 510; petition in reference to the use of the i bible in common schools, submitted by.............................'510 remarks of, in debate on article in reference to municipal subscrip tions to capital stock of private cor porations.......=> remarks of, in debate in conventto;,e on report from committee on judi-! ciary, as amended in committee of the whole..............14:9, 14,54, 1479 remarks of, in debate in convention l on report from committee on legis lative department, as amended in committee of the whole.....'..... 932 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on mis cellaneous corporations in refer ence to warehouses, as amended in committee of the whole...........16971i remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on reve nue, as amended in committee of the whole.........................1601' remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on right of suffrage, as amended in commit tee of the whole........ 1296, 1297, 1299 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on sched ule, as amended in committee of the whole......................... 1821 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on bill of rights........1559 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on counties.............1332 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on education...........1736, remarks of, in debate on report from committee on judiciary............ 977l 989, 1023, 1066, 1086, 1093, 1122, 1133. remarks of, in debate on report from committee on legislative depart ment...................505, 656, V1o remarks of, in debate on report from committee on miscellaneous sub jects in reference to homestead ex-i emptions.................................911 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on municipal corpora- tions...........,........1873! remarks of, inl debate on resolution of Mr.V Wells in reference to elec-i tion of delegate to convention in place of Eon. Wm. H. Patterson, deceased................. *02 remarks of, of announcement of death of Eon. Wmn. H. PatterS~n...e...... 196 SHARP, JAMES N.-(a Delegate from toL Fourth Representative District.) amendment of, to section 4 of report from committee on state, county and municipal indebtedness........ 9 a mendmento e of, to sectin 2 of report from committee on state, county and municipal indebtedness, as i amended in committee of the whole.........................I.-I amendment of, to substitute of Mr. Hanna to section 4 of report from committee on state, county and mu nicipal indebtedness............... 8,0 appointed member of committee on penitentiary and reformatory insti tutions............................ 7,5 appointed member of committee on retrenchment and reform.......... 75 appointed member of committee on right of suffrage................... /75 appointed member of committee on roads and internal navigation...... H7i resolution authorizing circuit court clerks to act as recorders in certain cases.............................. 213 resolution of instruction to commit. tee on judiciary, in reference to mechanics' liens.................... 19 resolution of instruction to commit tee on judiciary, to amend constitu tion in reference to sheriffs........ 367 resolution of instruction to commit tee on judicial circuits, to amend constitution in reference to judicial circuits........................... 212 resolution of instruction to commit tee on revenue, in reference to Illi nois C entral railroad.............. 193 resolution to adopt rule 50, limiting speeches.......................... 260 SENATE CHAMBER-a resolution of Mr. King in reference to the appointment of janitor to....1234 SEPARATE SCHOOLS for white and colored children, reso lution of Mr. Washburn in reterence to.................................. 679 for white and colored children, ret lution of Mr. Washburn in refer ence to, called up and acted upon.. 703 SEPARATE SUBMISSION of articles of constitution, resolution of instruction of Mr. Washburn to committee on schedule in reference t o t................................ 176 ae of judiciary article, communication in reference to.....................1129 of question offemale suffrage, resolu tion of Mr. Buxton in reference tr r o................................. e e e 1308 SERVICES AND FEES — of Auditor of State, communication in reference to, submitted by the president......................... 196 of Secretary of State, Treasurer and Auditor, resolution of inquiry of Mr. Goodhue in reference to............ 146 SESSIONS of convention, resolution of Mr. Sny der in reference to................ 260 S afternoon, of convention, resolution of Mr. Allen, of Crawford, in refer ence to............................ 261 afternoon, of convention, resolution of Mr. Archer in reference to...... 258 afcernoon, of convention, resolution of Mr. Browning in reference to... 282 i i i t i II I INDEX. 108 HEPARD, DANIEI elected first assistant recretary of convention........................ 51 SHERIFFS resolution of 1-nr-,truction of Mr. Sharp to committee on judiciary. to ameild constitution in refereilci io........ 367 s~~~~~~~~N]X 10 SHERIFFS-C-ontinued. eligibility to re-election and official fees, resolution of Mr. Sherrill in reference to........................ 83 eligibility of to re-election and official fees, resolution of Mr. Sherrill in reference to, reported back from committee on township organiza tion and referred to committee on counties............................ 245 SKINNER, ONIAS C.-Continued. amendment of, to sections 6 and 16 of report from committee on bill of rights....................156 7, (2) 1585 amendment of, to section 9 of report from committee on executive de partment.......................... 775 amendment of, to section 39 of report from committee on judiciary......pr...1172 amendment of, to section 18 of report from committee on Legislative de partment as amended in committee of the whole...................... 951 amendment of, to section 1 of report from committee on state, county and municipal indebtedness....... 215 amendment of, to substitute of Mr. Hay to section 5 of report from j committee on judiciary...........1213 appointed member of committee on bill of rights.......... -5 p........... 75 appointed member of judiciary com- mittee........................7 rsui irern ta u..... 75 appointed member of committee on manufactures and agriculture...... 75 appointed member of committee on schedule.............................. 75 communication in reference to circuit court, submitted by............... 6.. 27 communication on the subject of revenues, submitted by............ 627 communication on the subject of township organization, submitted v by................................. 117 leave of absence granted to....... 261 365 1596' pe tition against female suffrage, sub- remitted by.........................1550 petition in reference to highways, submitted by...................... 627 petition in reference to railroads, sub mitted by......................... 627 petition on the subject of commerce, submitted by..................... 745 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on count, ties, as amended in committee of the whole................... ** 1556 remarks of, in debate in convuten tion on report fiom committee on legisla- 8 tive department, as amended ing committee of the whole........... 922 931, 938, 953, 961, 967 remarks of, in debate on report fr om committee on bill of rights........1567 1574, 1578, 1579, 1582, 1585 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on executive depart ment............771, 775, 811, 812, 813 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on judiciary............ 993 994, 996, 1000, 1011, 1017, 1018 1098, 1099, 1104, 1108, 1110, 1119 1125, 1134, 1149, 1164, 1167, 1170 1172, 1184, 1185, 1186, 1190, 1191 1212, 1218, 1227; remarks of, in debate on report f rom committee on legislative depart meiAt......................601, 604, 607 665, 672, 684, 685, 689, 696, 713 remarks of. iu debate on report f rom committee on printing and binding in reference to printing and bind ing convention debates............ 112 rema rks of, in debate on report from committee on retrenchment and re form in reference to convention and assembly expenses since 1862.....bl 2oi remarks of; in debate on report from a committee on revision and adjust ment, on article on corporations...1838 remarks of, in debate on report from e committee on revision and adjust- I ment on article on counties...1836 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on state, county and municipal indebtedness........2L5-, re marks of; in debate on resolutions in reference to oath of office..29, 31, 32 remarks of, in debate on resolution of Mr. English in rofcrence to adjourn ment......................... 88 remarks of, in debate on resolution of Mr. Parks in reference to fur nishing stationery to members of conven tion debate.in.convention, remarks of, in debate on resolution of inquiry of Mr. Fox to Auditor of State in reference to expenses of general assembly since 1862, and of constitutional convention of 1862.. 80 remarks of, in debate on the subject of convention printing............ 118 SKINNER, ONIAS C.-Continued. remarks of, in debate on the subject of printing debates................ 90 remarks of, in reference to o rder of busin ess...................... 854, 1198 remarks of, on announcement of the death of Hon. A. G. Kirkpatrick...1230 remarks of, on election of president pro tem....................... 2, 3, 4 remarks of, on proposition in refer ence to railroad and municipal in debtedness of Quincy, Illinois.....1866 remarks of, on resolution of Mr. Cary in reference to employing addi tional clerical force................ 71 remarks of, on resolution of Mr. Cody in reference to committee room of judiciary committee...........'I'l 988 remarks of, on resolution requiring two-thirds vote in convention.....1841 report from committee on judiciary, submitted by...................... 852 resolution in reference to adjourn ment............................. 745 resolution in reference to employ ment of secretaries during recess of convention........................ 1190 resolution in reference to furnishing debates to newspapers......... 213, 236 resolution in reference to oath of office............................. 45 rule requiring two-thirds vote in con vention, submitted by............. 1841 substitute of, to amendment of Mr. Hayes to lines 13 and 14 of section 33 of report from committee on legislative department............ 604 substitute of, to section 3 of report from committee on executive de partment.................. 771 SHERRILL, HENRY-(a Delegate from the 52d Representative District.) amendment of, to section 18 of report from committee on judiciary....... 1079 amendment of, to section 2 of report from committee on miscellaneous corporations, in reference to wa re houses............................1624 appointed member of committee on canal and canal lands............... 75 appointed member of committee on internal improvements............. 75 appointed member of committee on public accounts and expenditures.. 75 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on judic'. ary, as amended in committee of the whole..,...............8......146 remarks of, in debate on report from committees on canal and canal lands, and on internal improvements 379 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on counties............1361 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on judiciary............ 989 remarks of, in debate on report from comm, ttee on miscellaneous corpo rations in reference to warehouses, 1624 remarks of, on question of privilege,.. 704 resolution in reference to obtaining property by misrepresentation or fraudulent transactions,............ 129 resolution in reference to official fees and the eligibility of sheriffs to re election............................. 88 resolution in reference to official fees and the eligibility of sheriffs to re election, reported back from com mittee on township organization by Mr Peirce, and referred to com mittee on countieg................. I45. SNYDER, WM. H.'-(a Delegate from the Fifteenth Representative District.) additional section to report from committee on education, as ame nd ed in committee of the whole, offered by......................... 1761 amendment of, to amend ment of Mr. Haines, of Lake, to section 3 of re port from committee on bill of rights........................... 15 amendment of, to resolution of Mr. Allen, of Cr awford, authorizing committee on legislative depart ment to employ clerk...;.......... 118 amendment of, to resolution of Mr. Turner in reference to payment of officers and members of convention 88 amendment of, to section 5 of report from committee on counties, as amended in committee of the whole............................ 1539 amendment- of, to section 3 of report from committee on executive de partment......................... 70 amendment of, to section 18 of report from committee on executive de partment, as amended in committee of the whole...................... 1387 amendment of, to section 12 of report from committee on legislative de partment......................... 529 amendment of, to substitute of Mr. Church to portion of report from committees on canal and canal lands and on internal improvements...... 336 appointed member of committee on bill of rights....................... 75 appointed member of committee on legislature....................., 75 appointed member of committee on revenue............................ 75' appointed member of committee on revision and adjustment............ 75 article in reference to personal liberty, submitted by......................... 177 communication in reference to amend ment to constitution, submitted by 262 communication in reference to ferry across the Mississippi river at St. Louis, submitted by..............9 communication in reference to the publication of laws, &c., submitted by................................. 289 leave of absence granted to.......... 1234 remarks of, in debate in convention, on report from committee on canal and canal lands, as amended in com mittee of the whole............... 485 remarks of, in debate in convention on report ifom committee on counties, as amended in committee. of the whole................... 1503, 1504, 1539 I I i F i I I I I I i I 1I i I i i i. i L i I I iI INDEX. 109 SH'ERIFF AND COUNTY COLLECTOR resolution of Mr. Snyder in reference to.................4...............! $HIP CANAL resolution of Mr. Bromwell Ili refer ence to............................ 1869 lillORT MR&SURE OF FRUITS communication,in reference to...... 236 ,communication in reference to, re ported back from committee on miscellaneous subjects........-..... 857 SIDBWALKS communication in reference to...... 15][DEWALK PURPOSES, ETC. resolution'of Mr. Sedgwick to amend constitution in reference to assess ment of taxes for.................. 21 EKINNER, ONIAS C.-(a Delegate from'the Twenty-eighth Representative District.) additional section to report from com mittee on counties, as amended in committee of the whole, offered b................................. 15M y additional section to report from com. mittee on judiciary, offered by.....1227 amendment of, to dditional section offered by himself to report from committee on counti4N, a* amended in committee of the whole......... 1557, amendment of, to article in reference to municipal subscriptions to capi tal stock of private corporations.,.I= ,amendment of, to Tine 14 of see tion 33 ofreport from committee on le —Islative department............. 605' -amendment of, to resolution of Mr. Allen, of Crawford, authorizing Committee on legislative depart ment to employ clerk............. 113 ,amendment of, to resolution of Mr. Turner in reference to care of hall during recess of convention....... 1190' 410 INDEX. SNYDER, WM. H.-Continued. remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on execu t ive, as amended in committee of the whole......................... 1375 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on judiciary, as amended in committee of the whole.................1464,1479 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on rail road corporations, as amended in committee of the whole........... 1710 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on bill of rights........ 1560 remarks of, in debate on report from committees on canal and canal lands and on internal improve ments............................. 362 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on education......1742, 1743 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on executive depart meut...................... 763, 774, 784 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on judiciary............1025, 1037, 1188, 1189 SPRINGoER, REV. MR. prayers offered by................ 183, 424 SPRINGER, CHAS. F.-(a Delegate from the Sixteenth Representative District.) additonal section to report from com mittee on executive department, of ferred by.......................... 825 additional section to report from com mittee on revenue, as amended i n committee of the whole, offered by.1612 1613 amendment of, to amendment of Mr. Cross to report from committee on printing and binding in re feren ce to constitution and address, etc...................1847 amendment of, to amendment of Mr. Fuller to section 18 of report from committee on judiciary............ 1072, amendment of, to line 28 of section 33 of report from committee on legis lative department.............. 590, 612 amendment of, to resolution request ing certain information from Super intendent of Public Instruction....1393 amendment of, to section 22 of report from committee on executive de. partment, as amended in committee of the whole...................... 1386 amendment of, to section 1 of report from committee on future amend ments............................. 1311 amendment of, to sections 1, 10 and 16 of report from committee on ju diciary.................. 981, 1029, 106 amendment of, to section 16 of report from committee on judiciary, as amended in committee of the whol e...........................(2)1460 amendment of,.to sections 6 and 40 of report from committee on legisla tive department............... 721, 617 amendment of, to sections 2, 4, 5 and 6 of report from committee on rev enue, as amended in committee of 'the whole.............. 1604, 1606, 1607 appointed member of committee on accounts and expenditures of con. vention............................ 93, appointed member of committee on education, in place of Mr. Billings, resigned................... 61 appointed member of committee on electoral and representative reform 75 appointed member of committee on future amendments................ 75 appointed member of committee on military affairs.................... 75 appointed member of committee on penitentiary and reformatory insti tutions............................ 75 appointed member of committee to select committee to prepare address to the people of the State.......... 1732 comnmiunication in reference to the protection of laborers, &c., sub mitted bv.......................... 306 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on educa tion, as amended in committee of the whole.......................... 1756 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on future amendments, as amended in com mittee of the whole 1....... 59 3 remarks of, ill debate in convention on report fromn committee on judici ary, as amended in committee of the whole....... 1454, 1460, 1474, remarks of, in debate in convenltionl on report from committee on rail road corporations, as amended in committee of the whole...... 1716} remarks of, in debate in convention on. report from committee on re vision and adjustment on schedule.185~ remarks of, in debate on report from committee on bill of rights.... 1575. 1583 remarks of, ill debate oTn report from committee on counties,..................1325 1327, 1356, 1363 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on future amendments, 1311 1313 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on judiciary,...... 985 1055, 1080, 1051, 1142, 122:0 remarks of, ill debate on report from committee on legislative depart ment.....518, 5S0, 603, 712, 742, 803, 804 remarks of; in debate on report from committee on1 military affairs...... 861 report from committee on mines and m ineral interest s i n reference to the protection of the lives of mi ners, submitted by......................m 2 0 resolution in reference to compensa tion of officers and members of con vention........................... 736 resolution in reference to corporal punishment in schools.............1078 resolution in reference to county col lector and sheriff.................. 93 resolution in reference to election of public administrator.............. 1032 resolution in reference to employ ment of convict labor on state works............................. 213 resolution in reference to furnishing newspapers to members of convon-c tion...............................'7, 61 resolution in reference to legislative assembly........................ 100 resolution in reference to legislative assembly, reported back from com mittee on legislative department.. 141 resolution in reference to manner of election of master in chancery..... 92 100, 745 resolution in reference to pay of de ceased and resigning members of convention........................ 987 resolution in reference to payment of temporary employes of convention. 88 92 resolution in reference to removal of conivention to Chicago............. 322 resolution in reference to removal of state capitol........aed i co 679 resolution in reference to right of suf frage.............................. 193 resolution in reference to sessions of convention........................ 260 resolution in reference to ventilation of hall............................ 564 resolution in reference to the vesting of pardoning power............151, 260 substitute of, to resolution of Mr. Wagner in reference to committee rooms............................. 489 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on mines and mineral interests, in reference to the pro tection of the lives of miners.. 264 268 remarks of, in debate on report from comfmitt ee on miscellaneous sub jects, in reference to homestead ex emp'tions.......................... 901 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on printing and binding,' in reference to correction of speeches........................... 168 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on printingLand binding, in reference to furnishing newspa pers to convention................. 131 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on retrenchment and reform in reference to convention and assembly expenses since 1862.. 228 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on roads and internal navigation......................... 890 remarks of, in debate on resolution in reference to furnishing newspapers to members of convention........ 61 remarks of, in debate on resolutions in reference to oath of office...... 17 remarks of, in debate on resolution of Mr. Allen of Crawford, authorizing committee on legislative depart ment to employ clerk............. 114 remarks of, in debate on resolution of Mr. English in reference to recess of convention..................... 828 remarks of, in debate on resolution of Mr. Wagner in reference to com. l inittee roons...................... 4S9 remarks of, in debate on resolution of Mr. Wells, in reference to election of delegate to convention in place of Ilon. W. E!. Patterson, deceased 2061 remarks of, in debate on resolution of Mr. Wendling in reference to rati fication of amendments to federal constitution....................... 166 remarks of, in reference to report from committee on right of suf frage.............................. 857 remarks of, on motion of Mr. Allen of Crawford, to discharge com mittee on legislative department from further consideration of reso lution in reference to legislative as sembly...................... 141 to 145 remarks of, on resolution in reference to removal of convention to Chicago........................... 322 remarks of, on resolution of Mr. Cameron to appoint committee on mines and mineral interests 85 remarks of, on resolution of instruc tion of Mr. Wall to committee on revision and adjustment in refer -ence to election of masters in chan cery............................... 1789 remarks of, on the subject of the spe cial order in reference to certain reports................... I...... 483 SOLDIERS resolution of Mr. Washburn in refer ence to their right to vote......... 100 SOVEREIGNTY of the people, resolution of Mr. Ar cher in reference to................. 113 SOVEREIGN POWER of convention, resolution of Mr. Un derwood in reference to........... 213 SPECIAL and private acts of incorporation, resolution of instruction of Mr. Rice to committee on legislature, in reference to....................... 172 legislation, resolution of instruction of Mr. Peirce to committee on leg lislative department, in reference to o............................ 212 order, remarks in reference to post ponement of......................1477 order, remarks on the subject of, in;, reference to certain reports..482 to 484 order, resolution of Mr. Hay to post pone, in reference to consideration of report from committee on right of suffrage........................ 560 SPEECHES resolution of Mr. Cameron, limiting.1596 resolution of Mr. Sharp, to adopt rule 50, limiting.................. 260 remarks in reference to the adoption of rule 50, limiting.. 509 remarks on submission of report from committee on rules in reference to the adoption of rule 50, limiting... 490 report from committee on printing and binding, in reference to correc tion of............................. 167 report from committee on rules, in reference to the adoption of rule 50, limiting........................... 490 SPEECH-MAKING-m and voting on judiciary subject, reso lution of Mr. Cross in reference to.1061 i I 110 INDEX. SNYDER, WM. H.-Continued remarks of, in debate on report, from committee on legislative depart ment............................. 502 566, 567, 596, 617, 620, 621, 622, 660, 706 INEX SPRINGER, CHARLES F.-Continued. remarks of, in debat e on repo rt from committee o n mines and mi n eral interests in reference to the protec tion of the lives of miners......... 273 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on revision and adjust meot on article on judiciary........ 1811 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on schedule............ 1803 remarks of, in debate on resolution of Mr. Wells in reference to election of delegate to convention in place of Hon. Wm. H. Patterson, deceased.. 206 remarks of, in reference to printing address and constitution.......... 1842 remarks of, on announcement of the death of Hon. H. W. Billings...... 1446 remarks of, on communication from Secretary of State in reference to stationery furnished to convention. 1817 remarks of, on report from commit tee on public accounts and ex penditures in referrnce to future ap propriations for state house........ 1773 remarks of, on resolution of Mr. Peirce in reierence to additional pay to secretaries of convention....... 1860 .... remarks of, on resolutions of instruc tion of Mr. Moore to Auditor of State and Treasurer of State Nor mal School and Industrial Univer sity in reference to Superintendent of Public Instruction......... 1389 1390 remarks of, on the subject of amend ing rule 44 in reference to the or der of business.................... 173 report from committee on accounts and expenditures of convention in reference to per diem of members and officers of convention &c., submitted by...................... 997, resolution in reference to compensa tion of members of general as sembly........................... 128 resolution in reference to free schools 176 resolution in reference to homesteads 92 resolution in reference to recess of convention........................ 860 resolution of condolence in reference to death of Hon. H. W. Billings...1446 resolution of instruction to commit tee on counties in reference to county seats..................... 92 resolution of instruction to commit tee on education in reference to election of school superintendent.. 758 resolution of instruction to commit tee on future amendments in refer ence to form of oath of office of members of future conventions.... 193 resolution of instruction to commit tee on legislative department in reference to property exempted from execution.................... 180 resolution of instruction to Superin tendent of Public Instruction in reference to school statistics....... 322 resolution requesting certain informa tion from Superintendent of Public Instruction............139'2 resolution to amend constitution ill reference to punishment for duel ing 6...........v.....*......Ad0 resolution of Mr. Bryan in reference to support of public institutions by................................ 260 aid to railroads and canals, communi cation in reference to..............1476 as defendant in courts of law or equi ty, resolution of Mr. Church in ref ence to............................ 175 or corporation pro ceedings, resolo. tion of instruction of Mr. King to committee on judiciary,in reference to presumptions of law or fact in.. 212 county and town appropriations and credit, resolution of Mr. Henry in rerference to....................... t180 of Illinois, resolution of inquiry of Mr. Atkins to clerk of supreme court for third grand divison of, in reference to reports of judges of circuit courts in relation to amend ments to the laws................ 98 and other indebtedness to public schools, communication from Aud itor of State in reference to....... 155 topw judicial division of, resolution of Mr. Medill in reference to......... 1010 judicial division of, resolution of in struction of Mr. Buxton to com-. mittee on judicial circuits, in refer ence to............................1277 and national constitution, resolution of Mr. Turner in reference to ratifi cation of amendments to.......... 262 and national government, resolution of Mr. Anthony in reference to.... 98 school system of, resolution of in struction of Mr. Wagner to com mittee on education, to amend constitution in reference to........ 179 and United States constitution, etc., resolution of Mr. Anthony to print 72 STATE HOUSE article in reference to future appro priations for....................... 1320 remarks on report from committee on public accounts and expenditures in reference to future appropriations for........... 1621, 1622, 1772, 1773 report from committee on public ac counts and expenditures in refer ence to future appropriations for...1621 report from committee on public ac counts and expenditures in refer ence to future appropriations for, referred to committee on revision and adjustment.................... 1774 STATE AGRICULTURAL SOCIETY communication from, in reference to the establishment of a state bureau of statistics..............18........ c8 remarks on communication from, in reference to establishment of state bureau of statistics............. 128 129 STATE ARSENAL resolution of Mr. Fuller in reference to carpet for....................... 988 STATE INDEBTEDNESS resolution of Mr. Coolbau-h in refer ence to limitation of.............. 150 resolution of Mr. Tincher in reference to................................ 93 for railroads, resolution of Mr. Wells in reference to..................... 72 and revenue, resolution of Mr. Wells in reference to.................... 72 resolution of inquiry of Mr. McCoy to Auditor of State, in reference to 127 STATE AUDITOR resolution of Mr. Pillsbury request i ng information from, in reference to gross earnings of Ill. Cent. R. R. since June 11, 1862................. 80 resolution of inquiry to, of Mr. Fox, in reference to expenses of general assembly since 1862................ 6 resolution of inquiry to, of Mr. Mer riam, in reference to expenses of constitutional convention of 1862.. 68 resolution of Mr. Wells, to rescind resolutions of inquiry to, of Mr. Fox and Mr. Merriam. in reference to expenses of general assembly since 1862 and of constitutional convention of 1862...............: 8 STATE, COUNTY AND MUNICIPAL IN DEBTEDNESS, COMMITTEE ON appointment of..................... 75 debate o n report from......... 214 to 222 284 to 305, 833 to 851 debate in convention on report from, as amended in committee of the whole..................... 1256 to 1260 remarks of Mr. McCoy in reference to further consideration of report from............................. 120 9 remarks on motion of Mr. McCoy to print report from..............189, 190 report from, submitted by Mr. McCoy............................ 189 report from, referred to committee on revision and adjustment........... 1260 resolution of Mr. Coolbaugh in refer ence to limitation of state in debt edness, referred to................ 150 resolution of Mr. McCov in reference to further consideration of report from.......................... 261, 273 resolution of Mr. McCoy to print ad ditional copies of report from..... 4829 resolution of Mr. Moore in reference to fees of county officers, referred to................................ 180 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Merriam, in reference to compensa tion of county officers............. 177 SPRINGFIELD JOURNAL AND REGIS TER resolution of Mr. Tincher of thanks to................................. 1860 STATE BOARD of education, communication from treasurer of, in reference to Super intendent of Public Instruction....1649 of equalization, resolution of instruc tion of Mr. Cummings to commit tee on finance in reference to abolishment of.................... 61.5 of equalization, resolution of instruc tionr of Mr. Parker to committee on judiciary in reference to abolish ment of.....I...............9...... 212 STATE BOUNDARIES article on, submitted 278................ 278 article on, referred to committee on revision and adjustment.......,... 279 STATE ALEAU OF STATISTICS — communication from state agricul tural society in reference to the establishment of.................. 128 remarks on communication from state agricultural society in refer ence to establishment of.......128, 129 STARNE, ALEXANDER trustee, etc., communication from in reference to the sale of lands bel rg ing to Joel A. Matteson........... 510 trustee, etc, and Auditor of State, resolution of inquiry to of Mr. An thony, in reference to landS longing to Joel A. Matteson....... 334 1 —29 INDEX. I STATE STATE CANAL resolution of inquiry of Mr. Whiting, to Auditor of State, in reference to. 2.36 STATE CAPITAL amendment to constitution, in refer ence -o......... 481 resolution oi Iran,'yYi in'' iirence to removal of...................... 679 STATE CONSTITUTION remarks?f Mr. Anthony in reference' to farnishidg copies of.............9 report from committee on miscellane ous subjects, on petition in reference to................................. 191 STATE CREDIT resolution of Mr. Sedgwick in ref erence to.......................... 76 STATEDEPARTMENTS resolution of,Mr. Wait in reference to powers of...................... 98 STATE GOVERNMENT remarks on article on distribution of powers of......................... 2'i 9 report from committee on bill of rights, in reference to distribution of' the powers of................... 281 resolution of Mr. BcDjamin to amend article 2d of constitution, in refer ence to powers. of.................. 192 STANDING COMMITTEES appointment of..................... 75 resolution of Mr. Kirkpatrick in ref erence to employment of clerks by c,)l I resolution of Mr. Peirce in reference to reports ot...................... 258 resolution of Mr. Wheaton in refer ence to delivery of printed copies of reports of......................... 194 STANDING RULES additioi3al, offered by Mr. Haines, of Lake.............................. 78 STATE INSTITTJTIONS AND PUBLIC BUILDIi'iGS, COMMITTEE ON appoin, ment of..................... 75 communication from the stone cut ters, association of Chica -o ifer ence to convict labor, reforretto.. 141 112~ IXEX STATE INSTITUTIONS AND PUBLIC BUILDINGS, COMMITTEE ON —Contin. ned.' resolution of Mr. Bryan in reference to support of public institutions by the State, referred to..................) 260 resolution of Mr. Snyder in reference to the employment of convict labor on state wor ks, referred to............... 213 resolution of Mr. Snyder in reference to removal of state capitol, refer red to.....................~.... 679 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Peirce in reference to appointment of board of public charities.... *.... 84 STATE SECRETARY — Treasurer and Auditor, resolution of inquiry of Mr. Cary to, in reference to expenses of pl utth and 26th General Assemblies..............,.. 429 STENOGRAPHERS — t official to convention, report from committee on printing and bin ding in reference to compensation<~..293 official, resolution of Mr. Anthony, di recting Secretary of State to fur nish with necessary materials....72, 81 resolution of Mr. Medill in reference to employing messenger to................... 138 to convention, resolution of Mr. Met dill to appoint Ely, Burnham and Bartlett............................. 67 STATE SENATE-c petition in reference to, submitted by Mr. Anthony..................o.i. 2A y STATE SENATORS-i representatives and census, resolution of instruction of Mr. Harwood to committee on legislative depart ment in reference to............178 STATE LAWS-a resolution of instruction of Mr. Eldredge to committee on judi ciary in reference to revision of.... 194 STATE TREASURER — communication from, asking that resolution of inquiry in reference to additional salaries of circuit judges, be referred to Auditor of State..... 222 communication from, in reference to duties and compensation of that officer, submitted by the President, 177 resolution of inquiry to, of Mr. At kins, in reference to salaries of circuit judges for certain services rendered............................... 98 Auditor and Secretary, resolution of inquiry to, of Mr. Goodhue, in ref erence to their services and fees.................. 146 STOCK — resolution of Mr. Anthony in refer ence to subscription to, by cou 12 ties, towns, etc............... 154 capital of private corporations, arti cle in reference to mun icipal suban i m e scriptions to..................... s110 capital of private corporations, de bant e on article in reference to mu nicipal subscriptions to..1234 to 1242 capital of private corporations, arti cle in reference to municipal sub scriptions to, debate on in conven tion, as amended in committee of the whole...............l... 730 capital of private corporations, arti *cle in reference to municipal sub scriptions to, referred to committee on scheaule...........................1730 capital of railroads, resolution of Mr. Hart in reference to....................... 821 Kissuing of, by railroad corporations, resolution of Mr. Truesdale in ref erence to................ 213 STATE MILITIA — resolution of Mr. Parker in reference to e.. e.................e...... 176 STATE UNIVERSITY — article in reference to establishment of................................... 194 e olummunication in reference to....... 236 proposed, memorial in reference to... 250 resolution of Mr. Allen,of Alexander, in reference to establishment of.... 116 resolution of Mr. Merriam, in refer ence to maintenance of........................ 193 STATE OFFICERS-r article in reference to railroad passes of.................................. 965 resolution of Mr. Anthony of thanks to.................1861 resolution of Mr. Bryan in reference to election and compensation of... 83 resolution of instruction of Mr. Ross to committee on executive in refer ence to term of.......................... 193 resolution of instruction to of Mr. Turner to be present at administra tion of oath of office....................... 45 STATE WORKS-e resolution of Mr. Snyder in reference to the employment of convict labor on............................ aem.. 2t3 STATIONERY — resolution of Mr. Bromwell, in refer ence to furnishing members of con vention with...................... 66 resolution of Mr. Parks, in reference to furnishing to members of con vention..........................6. 65 furnished to convention, appointment of committee of investigation in re gard to communication from Secre tary of State in reference to........1828 furnished to convention, communica tion from Secretary of State in reference to t.......................181 furnished to convention, remarks on communication from the Secretary of State in reference to....1816 to 1819 furnished to convention, report from committee on accounts and expenr t ditures of convention in refer ence to......................1862 furnished to convention, resolution of in ll to inqu oMr. Anderson to Secre tary of State in reference to the amount of.......................... 53 furnished to convention, resolution of instruction of Mr. Cummings to committee on accounts and expendi tures of convention, in reference to.1416 furnished to members of convention, resolution of Mr. Ross to modify resolution in reference to......... 261 furnished to members of convention, resolution of Mr. Wells in reference to heading of......................... 72 ST. LOUIS i a communication in reference to ferry across Mississippi river at........................... 389 SUBMISSION — of amended constitution to the peo ple, resolution of Mr. Bryan in ref erence to manner of.................72..... 187 of constitution, resolution of Mr. Haines, of Lake, in reference to....1596 of female suffr age proposition, reso - lution of Mr. Cummings in refer -ence to........................... 632 of majority report from committee on federal relations, remarks of Mr. Peirce on.............1153 of memorial in reference to Cook county judiciary, remarks on...............1077 of new constitution, resolution of in struction of Mr. Fox: to committee on schedule in reference to manner of.................................. 1X2 of report from committee on accounts and expenditures of convention, re marks on...................120)9, 1210 of report from committee on federal relations, in form of resolutions...1764 separate, of judiciary article, commu ceat~ion in reference to................119 separate, of articles of constitution, resolution of instruction of Mr. Washburn to committcqp, on sched -ule, in reference to................ 1796 to ecrtay o Sate inreerece STATISTICS —srcino r Fxt omte resolution of Mr. Wells to establish a bureau of......................... 213 resolution of Mr. Wells to establish a bureau of, reported back from com mittee on miscellaneous subjects.. 257 in referenceto the cost of the Illinois and Michigan canal, submitted by Mr. Anthony...................... 366 of litigation in Cook county for the year 1869, introduced by Mr. An thsony................. 97 of litigation in Cook county for year 1869, remarks on introduction of... 97 t~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~~IDX 1...................... SUBSTITUTE-Continued. of Mr. Bromwell, to resolution of Mr. Parks in reference to furnishing members of convention with sta tionery.......................... 66 of Mr. Browning, to resolution of Mr. Wells to section 14 of report from committee on judiciary............1054 of Mr. Browning to portion of report from committees on canal and canal lands and on internal improve ments............................. 478 of Mr. Browning, to resolution of Mr. Wheaton in reference to limita tion of debate in committee of the whole...................4rmei 614 of Mr. Browning, to section 7 of re port from committee on judiciary..1224 of Mr. Browning, to section 7 of re port from committee on judiciary, as amended in committee of the whole.............................14 1 of Mr. Browning to sections 3 and 40 of report from committee on legis lative department.............507, 625 of Mr. Browning, to substitute of Mr. Wagner to additional section offer ed by Mr. Bayne to report from committee on education, as amend ed in committee of the whole......................... 1752 SUBSTITUTE-Continued. of Mr. Coolbaugh, to section 30 of re port from committee on judiciary.1145 of Mr. Coolbaugh, to section 3 of re port from committee on miscellane ous corporations, in reference to wa rehouses,........................1632 of Mr. Cummings, to report from committee on township organiza tion............................... 879 of Mr. Cummings to section 30 of re port from committee on legislative department, as am~nded in com mittee of the whole.............. 953 of Mr. Dement, to section 9 of report from committee on bill of rights...1569 of Mr. Dement, to section 24 of report from committee on legislative de partment.......................... 554 of Mr. Eldredge, to resolution of Mr. King to amend rule 44, in regard to order of business.................. 173 of Mr. Eldredge to section 0 of report from committee on miscellaneous corporations, in reference to ware houses, as amended in committee of the whole......................169 8 of Mr. English, to section 11 of report from committee on legislative de partment.......................... 515 of Mr. Fox, to resolution of Mr. Tur ner in reference to payment of offi cers and members of convention.. 88 of Mr. Fuller, to section 6 of report from committee on counties....... 1340 of Mr. Fuller, to section 2 of report from committee on future amend ments............................1314 of Mr. Fox, to section 23 of report from committee on judiciary...... 1107 SUBSTITUTE of Mr. Abbott, to section 2 of report from committee on counties........ 1328 of Mr. Allen,of Alexander,to proposi tion of Mr. Browning in reference to railroad and municipal indebted ness of Quincy, Ill................. 1867 of Mr. Allen, of Alexander, to resolu. tion of Mr. Church, in reference to oath of office....................... 9 of Mr. Allen, of Crawford, to lines 23 and 24 of section 33 of report from committee on legislative depart. ment.............................. 609 of Mr. Allen, of Crawford, to section 8 of report from committee on counties, as amended in committee of the whole...................... 1519 of Mr. Allen, of Crawford, to section 7 of report from committee on leg islative department................ 737 of Mr. Allen, of Crawford, to section 1 of report from committee on mis cellaneoi;s subjects in reference to homestead exemption, as amended in committee of the whole........ 1690 of Mr. Anderson, to section 32 of re port from committee on legislative department....................... 572 of Mr. Anderson, to section 2 of re port from committee on right of suffrage, as amended in committee of the whole...................... 1294 of Mr. Anthony, to amendments of Mr. Allen, of Crawford, and Mr. Browning to section 43 of report from committee on legislative de. partment.......................... 670 of Mr. Anthony, to resolution of Mr. Tincher, in reference to committee rooms............................ 81 of Mr. Anthony, to section 7 of re port from committee on judiciary.1024 of Mr. Anthony, to sections 39 and 41 of report from committee on ju diciary, as amended in committee of the whole................1480, 1487 of Mr. Anthony, to section 32 of re ort from committee on legislative department....................... 572 of Mr. Anthony, to section i of report from committee on municipal cor porations..........................1671 of M0r. Anthony, to section 25 of re port from committee on schedule, as amended in committee of the whole............................. 1829 of Mr. Atkins, to report from com mittee on mines and mineral inter ests in reference to the protection of the lives of miners.............. 270 of Mr. Bayne, to article of Mr. Peirce in reference to subscriptions to capital stock of private corpora tions.............................. 1239 of Mr. Benjamin, to section 36 of re port from committee on legislative department....................... 613 of Mr. Bromwell, to portion of report, from committees on canal and ca nal lands and internal improve mentss................. -3S of Mr. Bromwell, to report from com- mittee on printing and bindi~ in reference to furnishing newspapers to members of- convention........................ 1S24 of Mr. Buxton to reports from com mittees on bill of rights and mis cellaneous subjects, in reference to preamble.......................... 235 of Mr. Buxton, to resolution of Mr. Snyder in reference to furnishing members of convention with news papers............................ 62 of Mr. Buxton, to section 2 of report from committee on military affairs. 863 of Mr. Buxton, to section 1 of report from committee on miscellaneous corporations in reference to ware houses 1 6 28.................. ous1628 of Mr. Buxton to section one of re port from committee on revenue.. 1252 of Mr. Buxton to section 9 of report from committee on schedule, as amended in committee of the wholel8S26 of Mr. Buxton, to section 1 of report from committee on State, county and municipal indebtedness....... 217 of Mr. Cameron, to report from com mittee on mines and mineral in terests, in reference to the protec tion of the lives of miners.......... 265 of Mr. Cameron, to resolution of Mr. Allen, of Crawford, in reference to reference of constitution to appro priate committees................. 81 Mof Mr. Cameron, to resolution of Mr. Peirce in reference to additional pay to secretaries of convention... 1869 of Mr. Cameron, to resolution of Mr. Turner in reference to convention printing........................1203 of Mr. Cameron, to section 2 of report from committee on miscellaneous subjects, in reference to homestead exemptions, as amended in commit tee of the whole...................1691 of Mr. Cary,to resolution of Mr. Craig to furnish members of convention with daily papers.................. 181 of Mr. Craig, to section 32 of rep or t from committee on legislative de partment......................... 575 of Mr. Cary, to section 1 of report from committee on state, county and municipal indebtedness........ 218 of Mr. Church, to additional section offered by Mr. Sedgwick to report from committee on right of suffrage, as amended in committee of the whole............................. e1299 of Mr. Church, to portion of report from committees on canal and ca nal lands and on internal improve ments............................. t333 of Mr. Church, to report from com mittee on roads and internal navi gation.88 ecouofrdbM. 888 of Mr. Church, to resolation of Mr. Wells in reference to election of delegate to convention in place of Hon. Wm. H. Patterson, deceased. 198 of Mr. Church, to sections 18, 19 and 22 of report from committee on ju diciary..................1062, of Mr. Cody. to section 1 of report from committee on legislative de partment of.con.entio............. e r t.......... 49-1 INDEX. 113 ;SUBSCRIPTIONS to stock by counties, towns, etc., res. olution of Mr. Anthony in reference to................................. 154 municipal to capital stock of private corporations, article in reference to................................. 1104 municipal to capital stock of private corporations, debate on article in reference to................ 1234 to 1242 municipal, to capital stock of pri vate corporations, debate in con vention on article in reference to, as amended in committee of the whole............................. 1730 municipal, to capital stock of private corporations, article in reference to, referred to committee on schedule.1730 municipal, proposition in reference to...............................:11845 municipvl], remarks on proposition in reference to............ 1845, 1848, 1849 SUBSTITUTES, ETC. remarks in reference to reference of.. 344 of Mr. Fox, to section 28 of report from committee on judiciary as amended in committee qf the whole............................. 1471 of Mr. Fox, to sections 3 and 24 ofre port from committee on legislative department.................... 501, 540 of Mr. Fox, to section 23 of report from committee on schedule, as amended in committee of the whole............................. 1829 of Mr. Goodell, to additional section of Mr. Springer to report from com mittee on executive department.... 825 of Mr. Goodhue, to amendment of Mr. Cody to rdection 42 of report from committee on legislative de I)artmexit.......................... 632 of Mr. Goodhue, to resolution of in. q-uiry of Mr. Cary to State Secre. tary, Treasurer and Auditor iii refer ence to expenses of 25th and 26th general assemblies................. 429 of Mr. Goodhue, to section 4 of Fe. port from committee on counties as amended in committee of the whole............................. 1522 ,of Mr. Haines of Cook, to section 16 of report from committee on execu. tive department.................... 782 of Mr. Haines, of Cook, to section 0 of report from committee on finance............................ 1783 of Mr. Haines, of Cook, to sections 3 and 4 of report from committee on municipal -corporations............ 1674 of Mr. Haines, of Cook, to sections I and 2 of report from committee on municipal corporations as amended in committee of the whole...1723, 1724 of Mr. Haines, of Cook, to section 3 of report from committee on rail road corporations as amended in committee of the whole........... 1713 of Mr. Haines, of Lake, to additional section offered by Mr. Browning to report from committee on miseel laneoui3 subjects in reference to di vorce.............................. 1208 of Mr. Haines, of Lake, to additional section offered by Mr. Wall to re tee on legislative ended in commit................. 935 of Mr. Haines' of Lake, to amend ment of Mr. Skinner to section 39 of report fro. comittee on ju. diciary...................... 1178 of Mr. Haines, of k'e, to reso_lution of Mr., AIED, Of Crawford, iif refer en.ce to printing veto messages.... 153 114~~~~~~~ INJEX SUBSTITUTE-Continued. of Mlr. Haines, of Lake, to resolution of Mt-. Peirce, in reference to oath of office........................... 49 of Mr. Haines, of Lake- to resolution of Mr. Wells, to rescind resolu tions of inquiry of Messrs. Fox and Merriam to Auditor of State, in ref erence to expenses of general as sembly since 1862, and constitution al convention of 1862.............. 80 of Mr. Haines, of Lake, to resolution of Mr. Wendling, in reference to ratification of amendments to fed eral constitution.................. 165 of Mr. Haines, of Lake, to section 31 of report from committee on judi ciary.............................. 1170 of Mr. Hanna, to section 4 of report from committee on state, county and municipal indebtedness....835, 849 of Mr. Hay, to amendment of Mr. Hayes to section 1 of report from committee on judiciary, as amended in committee of the whole........ 1397 of Mr. Rice, to resolution of Mr. Wells, in reference to election of delegate to convention in place of Hon. Wm. H. Patterson, deceased. 200 of Mr. Rice, to substitute of Mr. Hay to amendment of Mr. Hayes to sec tion 1 of report from committee on judiciary, as amended in committee of the whole................. 1398,1400 of Mr. Ross, to resolution of Mr. Haines, of Lake, in reference to recess of convention.............. 866 of Mr. Ross, to section 4 of report from committee on railroad corpo rations............................ 1643 of Mr. Ross, to section 6 of report from committee on revenue....... 1274 of Mr. Ross, to section 6 of report from committee on revenue, us amended in committee of the whole............................. 1609 of Mr. Scholfield, to section 23 of re port from committee on judiciary.1106 iof Mr. Scholfield, to section 18 of re port from committee on judiciary, as amended in committee of the whole.............................1408 of Mr. Scholfield, to section 1 of re port from committee on miscella neous subjects, in reference to homestead exemptions............ 902 of Mr. Sedgwick, to additional sec tion offered by himself to report from committee on right of suf. frage, as amended in' committee of the whole................. ad ot 1299 of Mr. Sedgwick, to resolution of Mr. English in reference to adjourn ment.............................. 87 of Mr. Sedgwick, to section 4 of re port from committee on education.1736 of Mr. Sedgwick, to section 4 of re port from committee on executive, as amended in committee of theot whole........................... 1373 of Mr. Sedgwick, to section 13 of re port from committee on judiciary.1137 of Mr. Skinner, to amendment of Mr. Hayes to lines 13 and 14 of section 33 of report from committee on legislative department............. 604 of Mr. Skinner, to section 3 of report from committee on executive de - partment........................ 771 of Mr. Snyder, to resolution of Mr. Turner, in reference to payment of officers and members of conven tion.............................. 88 of Mr. Snyder to resolution of Mr. Wagner, in reference to committee rooms........ 489 o f Mr. Truesdale, to amendment of Mr. Hayes Sto section 7 of report from committee on legislative de partment, as amended in committee of the whole...................... 920 of Mr. Truesdale to resolution of Mr. Wells, in reference to the election of delegate to convention in place of Hon. W. HI. Patterson, deceased 198 ef Mr. Turner, to resolution of Mr. Washburn, in reference to morning sessions of convention............. 852 of Mr. Hay, to resolution of Mr. Han na, in reference to printing debates. 90 of Mr. Hay, to resolution of Mr. Sny der, in reference to furnishing members of convention with news p a p e r s............................ 64 of Mr. Hay, to section 7 of report from committee on counties..1344, 1356 of Mr. Hay, to sections 5 and 18 of report from committee on judiciary.1212 1088 nl l t in r Lfr-netondmet ocn tute. - of Mr. Wall, to section 3 of report from committee on executive de- a partment.......................... 774 of Mr. Wall, to section 7 of report from committee on judiciary....... 1014 of Mr. Washburn, to report from com mittee on right of suffrage as amend ed in committee of the whole......1282; of Mr. Washburn, to section 7 of ma jority report from committee on counties........................... 1354 of Mr. Washburn, to section 20 of report from committee on schedule as amended in committee of the whole............................. 182$ of Mr. Wells, to additional section of report from committee on legisla tive department offered by Mr. Haines, of Lake................... 74a of Mr. Wells, to report from commit tee on printing and binding in reference to printing constitution and address....................... 18 4 & of Mr. Wells, to resolution of Mr. Hanna in reference to election of delegate to convention in place of Hon. B. W. Henry................. 1032 of Mr. Wells to resolution of Mr. Wall in reference to ratification of amendments to constitution....... 56 of Mr. Wells, to sections 1, 13 and 16 of report from committee on ju diciary.................. 976, 1134, 1055, of Mr. Wells, to section 13 of report from committee on judiciary as amended in committee of the who] e.............................144l of Mr. Wells, to section 1 of report from committee on right of suf frage as amended in committee of the whole.......................... 1283 of Mr. Wendling, to resolution on the subject of Washington's birthday.. 794 of Mr. Wheaton, to amendment of Mr. Wells to section 10 of report from committee on legislative de partment.......................... 724 of Mr. Wheaton, to section 7 of re port from committee on counties..1360 of Mr. Wheaton, to section 18 of re port from committee on judiciary..1091 to section 11 of report from commit tee on schedule as amended in com mittee ot the whole, offered by committee........................ 1828 of Mr. Hayes, to amendment of Mr. Cross to section 7 of majority report from committee on counties.......1348 of Mr. Hayes, to resolution of Mr. Allen, of Crawford, in reference to reference of constitution to appro priate committees................. 81 of Mr.' nHayes, to section 40 of report from committee on judiciary, as amended in committee of the whole............................. 1481 of Mr. Henry, to resolution of Mr. Snyder, in reference to furnishing members of convention with news papers............................. 57 of Mr. King, to section 18 of report from committee on judiciary, as amended inl committee of the whole.1463 of Mr. McCoy, to amendment of Mr. Browning to section 12 of report from committee on judiciary, as amended in committee of the whole............................1406 SUBSTITUTES REFERRED substitute to report from committee one'printing and binding, in reference to printing address and constitution referred to committee on printing and binding....................... 1845 of Mr: McCoy, to section 4 of majori ty report from committee on coun. ties..............................1329 of Mr. McDowell, to section 23 of re port from committee on legislative d epart ment....................... 537 of Mr. Medill, to report from com mittee on future amendments..... 1319 of Mr. Medill, to report from com mittee on mines and mineral inter ests, in reference to the protection of the lives of miners......... 271, 275 of Mr. Medill, to sections 7 and 4:, of report from committee on legisla tive department............... 731, 694 -of Mr. Medill, to section 25 of report from committee on schedule, as amended in committee of the whole............................ 1829 of Mr. Merriam, to resolution of in quiry of Mr. Fox to Auditor of State, in reference to expenses of general assembly since 1862....... 68 of Mr. Neece, to section 43 of report from committee on legislative de partment......................... 695 of Mr. Parker, to section 25 of report from committee on judiciary...... 1104 of Mr. Parker, to section 7 of report from committee on legislative de partment......................... 735 of Mr. Turner, to section 22 of report from committee on executive de partment.....8,te onrv 817 of Mr. Turner, to section 1 of report from committee on state, county and municipal indebtedness....... 216 of Mr. Underwood, to amendment of Mr. Benjamin to section 37 of re port from committee on legislative department....................... 638 of Mr. Underwood, to section 26 of re port ft'om committee on executive department...................... 800 of Mr. Wagner, to additional section offered by Mr. Bayne to report from committee on education...........1745 of Mr. Wait, to section 8 of report from comnmittee on counties, as amended in committee -of the. whole............................. 155 4 of Mr. Wall, to amendment of Mr. Anthony and Mr. Hay to section 13 of report firom committee on judi. ciary, as amended in committee of the whole....1....i rfn.51424 of Mr. Wall, to resolution of Mr. English in reference to recess of convention........................ 726 SUFFRAGE article on right of, res olution o f in struction of Mr. Goodbue to com mittee on revision and adjustment, in reference to section 6 of.........1662 article on right eof, res olut ion of in struction of Mr. Goodhue to com mittee on revision and adjustment in reference to section 6 of, called up and debated on........... 1725, 1726 communication in reference to right of, of foreigners................... 679 female, communication in reference to............................. 129, 156 female, memorial-in reference to..... 679 female, petition against........... (2)1477 1502, 1550 female, petition in reference to...... 451 (3) 479, 487, 510, 560, 613, 1077, 1842 female, proposition in reference to... 1730 female, protest in relation to........,.1277 (2) 1528, 1551 female, remarks of Mr. Medill in ref erence to lecture on............... 1392 female, remonstrance against........ 1840 female, resolution of Mr. Buxton in ' reference to separate submission of question of........................ 1308 female, resolution of Mr. Cummings in reference to..................... 532 female, resolution of Mr. Cummings in reference to submission of prop osition of.......................... 532 INDEX. 114 SUBSTITUTE-Continued. Su SUCCESSION TAX resolution of instruction of Mr. Moore to committee on federal re lations, in reference to............. 92 of Mr. Peirce, to section 10 of report from committee on legislative de partment..................... 728 of Mr. Perley, to resolution i "Afr. WeDdling, in reference to WashiDg to,ols birth-day.................... 78P, of Mr. Pillsbury, to section 7 of re ort from committee or. legislative Department, as amended com mittee of Ihe whole.... -... 922 INDE.... 115 SUPREME COURT-Continuea. judges, and judges of additional cir cuit courts, resolution of instruc tion of Mr. Hay to committee on revision and adjustment in refer ence to election of.................1800 judges, resolution of instruction of Mr. Medill to committee on revis ion and adjustment in reference to election of......................... 1678 library, resolution of Mr. Raines, of Lake, in reference to use of........ 782 reporter, petition in reference to.250, 894 SUPERINTENDENT OF PUBLIC IN STRUCTION communication from, furnishing cer tain information...............,.1814 communication from, in reference to school statistics............. 305, 332 communication from Auditor of State in reference to Auditor's warrants issued in favor of..................1759 communication from treasu.er of in dustrial university, in reference to.1451 communication from treasurer of state board of education, in refer ence to............................1649 resolution of Mr. Springer requesting certain information from..........1392 resolution of inquiry to of Mr. Moore in reference to school statistics.... 193 resolution of instruction of Mr. Moore to Auditor of State in refer ence to............................1389 resolution of instruction of Mr. Moore to treasurers of state normal school and industrial university, in reference to.......................1389 resolution of instruction to of Mr. Springer, in reference to school sta tistics............................. 322 TAXES resolution of Mr. Buxton in reference to levying of....................... 127 resolution of Mr. Buxton in reference to uniform assessment of.......... 127 resolution of Mr. Sedgwick to amend constitution in reference to assess ment of, fbr sidewalk purposes, etc................................ 212 general and special, resolution of Mr. Anthonv in reference to........... 154 on real estate, resolution of Mr. Par ker in reference to abatement of.... 726 FEMALiE communication in reference to.... (2) 129 1,56 memorial in reference to............. 679 and negro suffrage, resolution of Mr. Wright in reference to............. 212 petition against....... (2) 1477, 1502, 1550 petition in reference to.............. 451 (3) 479, 487, 510, 560, 613, 1077,1842 proposition in reference to........... 1730 protest in relation to...1277 (2) 1528, 1551 remarks of Mr. Medill in reference to lecture on......................... 1392 remonstrance against................ 1840 resolution of Mr. Buxton in reference to separate submission of question of........................... 1308 resolution of Mr. Cummings in refer ence to....................... 532 resolution of Mr. Cummings in refer ence to submission of proposition ,of................................. 532 resolution of instruction of Mr. Good hue to committee on revision and adjustment, in reference to........ 1477 SUPERINTENDENT OF SCHOOLS — resolution of instruction of Mr. Springer to committee on educa tion in reference to election of..... 758 TELEGRAPII STOCK, ETC. - resolution of Mr. AlleD, of Crawford, to amend constitution in reference to taxation of..................... 263 TEMPORARY employes of con.venton. resolution of Mtr. Sny/der in reference to pay ment of......................... 88, 92 engrossing clerk, resolution of Mr. Mr. Turner, authorizing secretary to employ......................... 78 enrolling clerk, resolution of -Mr. Wright to employ................. 138 RIGHT OF of foreigners, communication in refer ence to........................... 679 petition in reference t o.............. 479 resolution of Mr. Bayne in reference to.......... 100 resolution of Mr. Sedgwick in refer ence to.............. 736 reeolution of Mr. Snyder in reference to................................. 193 resolution of instruction of Mr. Good hue to committee on revision and adjustment in reference to section 6 of article on....................1662 resolution of instruction of Mr. Good hue to committee on revision and adjustment in reference to section 6 of article on, called up and deba ted on......................1725, 1726 SUTHERLAND, RICHIARD B.-(a Delegate from the Thirty-ninth Representative Dis trict.) appointed member of committee on bill of rights...................... 75 appointed member of committee on finance............................ 75 appointed member of committee on internal improvements............ 75 appointed member of committee on mining and mineral interests...... 93 appointed member of committee on miscellaneous subjects........... 75 leave of absence granted to.333, 864, 1596 SWAIN, A. H. elected second assistant secretary of convention..................... s52 leave of absence granted to.......... 1011 TERM of county o fficer s, resolution of in struction of Mr. Ross to committee on counties, in reference to............. 193 of Governor, resolution of Mr. Wright to amend constitution in reference to................................. 194 of offlce, petition in reference to hold ing over of, by certain officers. 451 of office, resolution of Mr. Under wood in reference to increase of official fees, during................ 138 of State officers, resolution of instruc tion of Mr. Ross to committee on executive, in reference to.......... 193 SYSTEM judicial, of Cook county, communica t i on in reference to................ 481 TAX — road, communication in reference to. 589 seven per cent. of Illinois Central railroad, resolution of Mr. Hildrup to amend constitution in reference to................................ 193 seven per cent. of Illinois Central railroad, resolution of Mr. Wash burn in reference to applicaton of. 194 atwo-mill," resolution of Mr. Atkins in reference to.................... 175 "two-mill," resolution of Mr. Vande venter in reference to............. 97 SUPPORT of public institutions by the state, resolution of Mr. Bryan in reference to................................ 260 TESTIMONY of criminals, resolution of Mr. Van deventer in reference to............ 72 SUPREME COURT resolution of Mr. Hart in reference to power of......................... o321 resolution of Mr. Turner in reference to justices of...................... 98 resolution of Mr. W,'ight in reference to place of holding................ 10C resolution of instruction of Mr. King to committee on judiciary, in refer ence to............................ 212 for 3d grand division of the state of Illinois, resolution of inquiry of Mr. Atkins to clerk of, in reference to amendments to the laws........ 98 judges, remarks in reference to elec tion of...................... 1799, 1800 judges, resolution of Mr. Medill in reference to opinions of............ 1l4 judges, resolution of inquiry to, of Mr. Atkins, in reference to certain reports of circuit judges.....it..... 323 1 —- 30 TAXATION communication in reference to... 365, 479 resolution of Mr. Sedgwick in refer enee to exemption of manufactur ing companies from............... 100 resolution of instruction of Mr. Cool baugh to committee on revenue, in reference to exemption from...... 211 resolution of instructon of Mr. Cross, to committee on revenue, in refer eone to the exemption of certain lands from........................c 481 resolution of instruction of Mr. Cum mings to committee on finance, inl reference to exemption from...... 192 INDEX. 115 SUFFRAGE-Conti,nved. female and negro, resolution of Mr. .EDgliSil in reference to............ 212 female, resolution of instruction of Mr. Goodhue to committee on revir, ion and adjustment, in reference to.1477 petition in reference to.............. 531 petition in reference to right of....... 479 report from committee on revision and adjustment, on article on, sub mitted by Mr. Cody...:............ 1834 resolution of Mr. Bayne in reference to right of......................... iou resolution of Mr. Sedgwick in refer ence to right of.................... 736 resolution of Mr. Snyder in reference to right 193 resolution of Mr. Wright in reference to................................. 71 TAXATION-Continued. general, f(-)r local benefit, resolution of Mr. Washburri in reference to... 194 proportionate, resolution of Mr. Wag ]3er in reference to................ 194 of church property used for other than religious purposes, resolution of instruction of Mr. Allen, of Crawford, in reference to.......... 213 of telegraph stock, etc., resolution of Mr. Allen, of Crawford, to amend constitution in reference to........ 263 TAX TITLES resolution of instruction of Mr. Ellis to committee on revenue, in refer ence to............................ 260 TELEGRAM of thanks from G-overi3or of Vii-giiala, submitted by the president........ 1550 preamble and resolution in reference to location of national capitol, of fered by Mr. Ellis.................. 75 TENURE and salary of officers, resolution of Mr. Anthony in reference to....... 211 SUPERVISORS of Cook county, communication from clerk of board of, in reference to certain proceedings of said board.. 155 boards of, resolution of instruction of Mr. Wheaton to committee on township organization, in reference to................................. 155 THANKS telegram of, from Governor of Vir girila............................... 1550 to committee on revision and adjust ment, resolution of Mr. Varide toventer of............. 1869 President of D tion resolution of Mr. Skinner of.................. 1845 to secretaries of convention, resolu tion of Mr. Cummings of.......... 1845 to Sprii3gtield Tournal and Register, resolution of Mr. Tincher of....... 1860 to state officers, resolution of Mr. Anthony of........................ 1861 TIME of consideration of report from com Mittee on miscelltineoui3 corpora tions, resolution of Mr. McCoy in reference to..............r....... 345 116~~ INEX TINCHER, JOHN L.-(a Delegate from the Thirty-ninth Representative District.) additional section to report from committee on bill of rights, offered by................................ 1587 additional sections to report from committee on judiciary, offered by. 1227 additional section to report from com mittee on judiciary as amended in committee of the whole, offered by.1496 amendment of, to additional section offered by Mr. Anderson to report from committee on right of suf frage as amended in committee of the whole......................... 1298 amendment of, to additional section offered by Mr. Hay to report from committee on counties............ 1365 amendment of, to additional section offered by Mr. Skinner to report from committee on judiciary as amended in committee of the whole............................. 1426 amendment of, to amendment of Mr. Fuller to section 18 of report from committee on judiciary............ 1073 amendment of, to amendment of Mr. Gamble to section 4 of report from committee on counties as amended in committee of the whole......... 1533 amendment of, to amendment of Mr. Medill to section 7 of majority re port from committee on counities..1355 amendment of, to amendment of Mr. Springer to section 1 of report from committee on future amendments.1312 amendment of, to constitution in ref ence to codification of laws, etc..o 193 amendment or, to resolution of Mr. Buxton in reference to the separate submission of the question of fe male suffrage.....................1308 TINCHIER, JOHN L.-Continued. appointed member of committee on accounts and expenditures of con vention......................... 93 appointed member of committee on banks and currency................ 75 appointed member of committee on federal relations................... 75 appointed member of committee on cfuture amendments................ p75 t appointed member of committee on legislature........................ 75 appointed member of committee to measure printed matter, etc., of convention........18.......1865 appointed member of committee to select committee to prepare address to the people of the state.........1732 leave of absence granted to......, 128, 851 petition in reference to the formation of new counties, submitted by.... 389 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on education as amended in committee of the whole.............................1753 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on execu tive, as amended in committee of the whole.........................1377 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on judi ciary, as amended in committee of the whole......... 1409, 1442, 1488,1496 remarks of;, in debate in convention on report from committee on legis lative department, as amended in committee of the whole........... 958 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on rail road corporations, as amended in committee of the whole...........1718 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on rev ennue, as amended in committee of the whole............. 1599, 1605, 1617 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on banks and currency 1678 1679, 1680, 1682 TINCHER, JOHN L.-Continued. remarks of, in reference to order of business.................. 309, 854, 1064 re marks of, in reference to printing address and constitution........... 1843 remarks of, in reference to reconsider ation of section 6 of article on rev enu e........... I.................... 1677 remarks of, on question of privilege,..1527 remarks of, on report from commit tee on future amendments......... 391 remarks of, on report from committee on miscellaneous subjects in refer ence to preparation of address to the people of the state............. 1731 remarks of, on complimentary resolu tion in reference to portraits of Abraham Lincoln and Stephen A. Douglas........................... 178 remarks of, on resolution of Mr. Cam eron to appoint committee on mines and mineral interests........ 85 remarks of, on resolution of Mr. Cam eron to recind resolution to print proprosed amendments to constitu tion............................... 116 remarks of, on resolution of Mr. Henry, in reference to furnishing newspapers to members of conven tion............... 57 remarks of, on resolution of Mr. Sedg wick, in reference to furnishing newspapers to members of conven tion................................ 125 remarks of, on resolution of Mr. Wendling in reference to furnishing additional postage stamps to secre tary of convention................. 368 remarks of, on resolution of inquiry of Mr. Truesdale to Auditor of State, m reference to appropria tions by General Assembly........ 323 remarks of, on resolution of instruc tion of Mr. Moore to Auditor of State and treasurers of state nor mal school and industrial university, in reference to superintendent of public instruction................. 1389 remarks of, on submission of report from committee on right of suf frage.............................. 158 report from committee on banks and currency, submitted by............ 1553 resolution in reference to committee rooms............................. 81 resolution in reference to custody and distribution of printed matter of convention........................ 389 resolution, Lcomplimentary, in refer ence to portraits of Abraham Lin coln and Stephen A. Douglas...... 178 resolution in reference to state indebt edness............................. 93 resolution of thanks to Springfield Journal and Register............... 1860 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on bill of rights........ 1587 remarks of, in debate on report from committees on canal and canal lands and on internal improve ments................ 402, 403, 404, 473 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on counties..1331. 1362, 1363 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on education.....1735, 1745 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on executive depart menat.... 750, 757, 766, 767, 802, 814, 815 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on judiciary............ 993 994, 1003, 1033, 1048, 1073, 1074, 1094 1095, 1117, 1162, 1163, 1194, 1214, 1220 1227 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on legislative depart ment............ 514, 528, 534, 539, 548 580, 592, 630, 642, 659, 693, 696, 725 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on miscellaneous corpo rations in reference to warehouses..1627 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on retrenchment and re form in reference to convention and assembly expenses since 1862...239, 240 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on revenue..1201, 1247, 1276 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on state, county and municipal indebtedness.......219, 295 remarks of, in debate on resolution of Mr. Church to adopt rule 49, in ref erence to effect of tabling amend ments............................ 186 remarks of, in debate on resolution of Mr. Wells in reference to election of delegate to convention in place of Hon. Wm. H. Patterson, de ceased............................ 206 remarks of, in debate on resolution of instruction of Mr. Allen, of Craw ford, to committee on revenue, in reference to taxation of church property used for other than reli gious purposes.................... 225 remarks of, in debate on the subject of printing prayers offered in con " vention........................... 171 remarks of, in reference to election of supreme court judges............. 1800W amendment of, to resolution of Mr. Vandeventer in reference to morn ing session of convention.......... 702 amendment of, to section 16 of report from committee on bill of rights..1586 amendment of, to section 6 of report from committee on counties....... 13~2, amendment of, to section 6 of report from committee on education.....1738 amendment of, to sections 3 and 22 of report from committee on executive deoartment............... 766, 809, 814 amendment of, to secti~,ns 2, 14 and 46 of report from committee on j u diciary.............. 975, 993, 1048, 1185 .amendment of, to sections 13 and 49 of report from committee on judi ciary, as amended in committee of the whole.................... 1412, 1495 amendment of, to section 4 of report from committee on municipal cor porations, as amended in commit tee of the whole.................... 1724 amendment of, to section 3 of report from committee on railroad corpo rations, as amended in committee of the whole...................... 1719 amendment of, to s ections 1 and 4 of report from committee on revenue, as amended in committee of the whole....................... 1617, 1774 amendment of, to section 1 of report from committee on right of suffrage, as amended - in committee of the whole... 1293 amendment of, to sections 9 and 26 of report from committee on sched ule........................... 1797, 1808 amendment of, to section 24 of re port from committee on schedule, as amended in committee of the whole............................. 1829 amendment of, to substitute of Mr. Browning to section 7 of, report from committee on judiciary...... 1224L amendment of, to substitute of Mr. Hanna to section 4 of report from committee on state, county and municipal indebtedness........... 850 amendment of, to substitute of Mr. Hay to section 5 of report from committee on judiciary............ 1214 amendment of, to substitute of Mr. Underwood to section 26 of report from committee on executive de partment......................... 801 amendment of, to substitute -of Mr. Wall to section 7 of report from committee on judiciary............ 1019 TOWNSHIPS resolution of Mr. Cameron in refer ence to transfer of................. 192 resolution of Mr. Peirce in reference to names and meetings of.......... 182 I i i 116 INDEX. TITLES and revision of laws, resolution of Mr. Cody, in reference to.......... 116 TOWN and city officers, etc., resolution of Mr. Anthony in. reference to elec tion of............................ 154 and county appropriations, etc., reso lution of Mr, Wagner in reference to........k......................... 179 TOWNS resolution of Mr. Haines, of Lake, in 9 reference to incorporation of....... 155 ,nd cities, resolution of instruction of Mr. Bryan to committee on mis celladeous subjects, in reference to corporate limits of................ 211 and cities, resolution of instruction of Mr. Bryan to committee on mis cellaneous subjects, in reference to corporate limts of, reported back - and referred to committee on mu iaicipal corporations............... 858 TOWNSHIP AND COUNTY, LINES petition in reference to.............. 679 I -~~~~~~~~IDX 117 TRUESDALE, CALVIN-Continued. amendment of, to section 1 of report from committee on education.....13 frmomiteomc1732 amendment of, to sections 1, 26, 37 and 46 of report from committee on legislative department............. 499 1111, 641, 1185 communication fr om Aud itor of State in reference to.....................1075 communication in reference to...... 117 petition in reference to......... 451, 1528 remarks on rules of convention in reference to...................... 73, 74 resolution of Mr. Peirce to print re port from Auditor of State in reference to....................... 1104 resolution of Mr. Peirce to Auditor of State in reference to........... 758 amendment of, to section 7 of report from committee on legislative de partment, as amended in commit tee of the whole............... 920, 942 amendment of, to section 1 of report from committee on railroad corpo rations............................1639 amendment of, to section 1 of report fi'om committee on state, county and municipal indebtedness....... 217 appointed member of committee on c nngressional apportionment...... 75 appointed member of committee on mining and mineral interests...... 93 appointed member of committee on printing and binding.............. 75 appointed member of committee on railroad corporations.............. 75 appointed m,-mler of committee on right of suffrage................... 75 communication from the stonecutters' association of Rock Island, in refer ence to convict labor, submitted by........................... 118 leave of absence granted to.167, 831, 1234 remarks of, in debate in convention oni report from committee on legis lative department, as amended in committee of the whole........... 922 remnarks of, in debate on report firom committee on judiciary........... 998 1065, 1185, 1191 TOWNSHIP ORGANIZATION-COMMIT TEE ON appoint ment of...................... 75 communication in re fer ence to rail road crossings, &c., referred to..... 141 communication in reference to road tax, reterred to...................,590 communication on the subject of township organization, referred to. 117 debate on report from......... 873 to 882 ma,i,rity r(eport from, submitted by Mr. Peirce.......... 293 minority report from, submitted by Mr. Haines, of Lake............... 293 petition in reference to township or ganization, referred to........ 451, 1528 report from, in reference to planting trees on highways, submitted by Mr. Peirce....................... 161 report from, referred to committee on revision and adjustment........... 882 resolution of Mr. Peirce in reference to names and meetings of town ships, referred to.................. 182 resolution of Mr. Sherrill in reference to official fees and the eligibility of sheriffs to re-election, referred to.. 83 resolution of Mr.- Sherrill in reference to official fees and the eligibility of sheriffs to re-election, reported back from, and referred to committee on counties..........................25 resolution of instruction to, of Mr. Wtieaton, in reference to boards of supervisors........................ 155 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on legislative depart merint... 553. 610, 635, 641, 642, 675, 712 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on mines and mineral interests, in reference to the protec tion of the lives of miners.... 269, 274 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on retrenchment and re form,, in reference to convention and assembly expenses since 1862.. 244 remarks of, in debate on resolution of Mr. Wells, in reference to election of delegate to convention in place of Hon. Wm. H. Patterson, de ceased............................... 206 remarks of, in debate on the subject of convention printing............ 1204 remarks of, on presentation of report from committee on right of suf frage.............................. 159-. remarks of, on resolution of Mr. Cam eron to appoint committee on mines and mineral interests........ 85 remarks of, on resolution of Mr. Wright in reference to ventilation of hall........................1210 remarks of, on resolution of inquiry to Auditor of State, in reference to appropriations by general assem bly............................... 323 remarks of. on resolution of instruc tion of Mr. Cummings to committee on printing and binding, in refer ence to cost of convention printing 532 resignation of Mr. Henry, presented by................................. 965 resolution in reference to election of delegate to convention in place of Hon. W. H. Patterson, deceased... 198 resolution of inquiry to Auditor of State in reference to appropriations by general Assembly............. 323 resolution to amend constitution in reference to the issuing of stock by railroad corporations.............. 213 substitute of, to amendment of Mr. Hayes to section 7 of report from committee on legislative depart ment, as amended in committee of the whole......................... 920 TURNER, THOMAS J.-(a Delegate from the Fifty-sixth Representative District.) amendment of, to additional section offered by Mr. Skinner to report from comi ttee on judi:ndry, of fer ed in debate in con vention on re port fro m committe e on jucoiciary, as amended in committee of the whole.............................. 1426 amendment of, to amendment of Mr. Benjamin to section 4 of report from committee on judiciary, as amended in committee of the whole.1427 amendment of, to amendment of Mr. Fox to section 5 of report from committee on judiciary, as aluend ed in committee of the whole...... 142S amendment of, to amendment of Mr. Goodell to section 5 of report from committee on judiciary, as amen ded in committee of the whole....1431 amen[ment of, to amendment of Mr. Hayes to section 6 of report from committee on counties, as amended in committee of the whole........ 1510 amendment of, to report from com. mittee on retrenchment and reform in reference to convention and as sembly expenses since 1862.....242, 245 amendment of, to resolution of Mr. Allen, of Crawford, authorizing the committee on legislative depart ment to employ clerk............. 113 amendment of, to resolution of Mr. Medill in reference to judicial diris ion of the state................... 1010 amendment of,to resolution of inquiry of Mr. Fox to State Auditor in ref erence to expenses of general as sembly since 1862.................. 70 amendment of, to sections 4, 8 and 1 of report from committee on coun ties, as amended in committee of the whole.......... 1502, 1519, (2) 1521 amendment of, to sections 3 and 10 of report from committee on execu tive department............... 774, 777 amendment of, to sections 1:3 and 39 of report from committee on judi ciary........................ 1046, 1172 amendment of, to sections 15 anri 47 of report from committee on judi ciary, as amended in committee of the whole.................... 1459,1495 amendment of, to section 3 of report from committee on legislative de partment......................... 506 amendment of, to section 11 of report from committee on legislative de partmnent, as amended in commit tee of the whole.................. 943 amendment of, to section 3 of report from committee on miscellaneous corporations in reference to ware houses............................ 1630 amendment of, to section 6 of report from committee on railroad corpo rations............................ 1647 amendment of, to sections 8 and 23 of report from committee on sched ule..............1806, 1 809 amendment of, to substitute of Mr. (Church to report from committee on roadls and internal navigation... 893 appointed member of commzittee on iederal relations.............*..... 75 appointed member of judicery com mnittee.......,.......... 7 TRANSCRIPTION of journals of convention, report from committee on printing and binding, in reference to.................... 1865 TRANSFER OF TOWNSHIPS resolution of Mr. Cameron in refer ence to............................ 192 TREASURER of Industrial University, communi cation from in reference to Superin tendent of Public Instruction..... 1451 of state board of education, commu nication from, in reference to Su perintendent of Public Instruction.1649 of State Normal School and Inidus trial University, resolution of in struction to, of Mr. Moore, in ref erence to Superintendent of Public Instruction....................... 1889 TRUESDALF E, CALVIN-(a Delegate from the Forty-seventh Representative District.) amendment of, to lines 26,27 and 28 of section ~3 of report from committee on l,gistative department.......... 610 amendment of, to report from com mittee on printing and binding, in reference to index to debates, etc..1885 amendment of, to resolution of Mr. Snyder in reference to removal of convention to Chicago............. 322 TUBBS, HENRY-(a Delegate from the Thir ty-third Representative District, in place of Hon. A. G. Kirkpatrick, deceased.) amendment of, to section S of report from committee on banks and cur rency.. i........................... 1681 amendment of, to sectitln 19 of report from committee on bill of rights...1587 i i IND-EX. 117 TOWNSAIP ORGANIZATION FUBBS, fiENRY-(,Iontinuedi amendment of, to section 2 of report from committee on miscellaneous subjects in reference to warehouses, as amended in committee of the whole............................. l8S7 appointed member of committee on canal and canal lands, in place of A. G. Kirkpatrick, deceased....... 1277 appointed member of committee on 'CODgre,Rc,ior,al apportionment, in place of B. W. HeDry, resigned.... 12'i'7 appointed member of committee on executive department, in place of A. G. Kirkpatrick, deceased....... 1277 certificate of election of, presented by the president...................... 1319 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on mis. cellaneous corporations i-u - refer ence to warehouses, as amended in committee of the whole........... 1697 TRA,NSPORT-kTION resolution of instruction of Mr. Church to committee on judiciary in reference to control of railroads in respect to rates of................. 148 TREES ON HIG[IWAYS amendment to constitution in refer ence to plantin,.................... remark-s of Mr. Medill on the subject of planting....................... 83 83 TRB,&T, JUDGE SAMUEL II. oath of office administered to mem- I . b(,-rs of convention, by........... 47, 49 resolution of Mr. Turner, requesting to administer oath of office........ 4,5 118~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ INDEX.O TURNER, THI OMAS J.-Continued. appointed m ember o f committee on printing and bitnding.............. 75 appointed miembler of committee on state, county and municipal indebt edness............................ 75 appointed member of committee to measure printed matter, etc., of convention........................1865 article on boundaries, submitted by.. 278 communication in reference to bill of rights, submitted by............... 249 communication on the subject of the constitution of Illinois, submitted by................................ 118 leave of absence granted to.......... 1234 petit/ion in reference to prohibitory liquor laws, submitted by......... 1621 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on coun ties, as amended in committee of the whole.......................... 1503 1510, 1521, 1535, 1536, 1544 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on future amendments, as amended in comi mittee of the whole............... 159;' remarks of, in debate in convention on repoit from committee on judici ary, as amended in committee of the whole.............. 1398, 1410, 1414 1424, 1498, 1431, 1436, 1457, 1458, 1459 1460, 1466, 1468, 1.478, 148R2, 1469, 1491 remarks of, in debate in convention on repoit from committee on legisla tive department, as amended in committee of the whole........... 927 943, 954, 965 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from comm,ttee on miscel laneous corpoirations in reference to warehouses, as amended in commit tee of the whole............ 1693, 1695 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on rail road corporations, as amended in committee of the whole........1713 remarks of, in debate in c'vention on report from committee on reve nue, as amended in committee of the whole........................ 1604 1609, 1610, 1614, 1620 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on sched ule, as amended in committee of the whole......................... 1825 remarks of, in debate in reference to election of assistant door-keeper of convention........................ 52 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on bill of rights..1560, 1581 remarks of, in debate on report from committees on canal and canal lands, and on internal improvements 368 369, 370, 371, 372, 475 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on executive depart ment................. 776, 777, 817, 826 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on judiciary............ 975 979, 997, 1003, 1010, 1 026, 1028, 1050 109i, 1099, 1105, 1126, 1144,' 1171 1172, 1174, 1176, 1177, 1219 remarks of, in debate on report frorn committee on legislative depart nent...................50'2, 503, 524 528, 551, 644, 6.52, 685, 690, 691, 738 remar ks of, in debate on report fr'om committee on mniscellaneous corpo rations in reference to warehouses..1623 1624, 1633 remarks of, ill debate on report from committee on miscellaneous sub jects, in reference to homestead es: emptions..............!301, 906, 907 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on municipal corpora tions................,...1674, 1675 remarks of, in debate on repor t fom committee on printing, and. binding 112 119, 120, 12S1, 1X9, 125, 129 remarks of, i~ debate on repor t from committee on printing and binding in reference to correction of speeches.................... 168 remnarks of, in debate on report from committee on printing and binding, in reference to furnishing newspa p)ers to convention.....;......... 129 'emaarks of, on report from committee on printing and binding, in refer e-nce to printing journal, laws, etc, 245 :- 9.46, 247 TURNER, TIHOMAS J.-Co?tifnued. remarks of, in debate on report from committee on railroad corporationsl647 rematrks of, in debate on report from committee on retrenchment and re form, in refereuce to conivention and assembly expenses since 1862.. 227 remarks of, in debate on report froma committee on revision and adjust ment on article on counties........ 1835 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on roads and internal navigation.................... 888, 893 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on schedule....... 1795, 1806 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on state, county and municipal indebtedness........... 2t 298 remarks of, in debate on resolutioni ibc reference to convention printing.94, 95 Remarks of, in debate on resolutions in reference to oath of office.. 19, 38, 40 remarks of, in debate on resolution of Mr. Church to adopt rule 49 in ref erence to effect of tabling amend ments........w........... 185, 186, 187 remarks of, in debate on resolution of Mr. English in reference to adjourn menlt.............................. 86 remarks of, in debate on resoloticn of Mrl. English in reference to recess of convention..................... 829 TURNER, THOMAS J.-Continued. remarks of, on resolution of in struc tion of Mr. Wall to committee on revision and adjustment in refer eence to election of m aste rs in chan cery..............................1 i89 remarks of, on resolution of instruc tion to Secretary of State in refer ence to publication of journal of convention........................ 213 remarks of, on resolution of invita tion to state officers to be present at administration of, ath of office.. 44 remarks of, on the subject of the dis tribution of committee reports..... 303 remarks of, on the subject of printing petitions, etc...................... 306 remarks of, on submission of report from committee on printing and binding in reference to cost of con ventiorn printing................... 654 remarks of, on submission of report from committee on Printing and binding in reference to Burnishing state maps to convention.......... 280 report from committee on printing and binding in reference to cost of convention printing, submitted by. 654 report from committee on printing and binding in reference to furnish ing newspapers to convention, sub mitted by........................ 129 report from committee on printing and binding in reference to furnish ing state maps to convention, sub mitted b y......................... 280 report fiom committee on printing and binding in relerence to index to debates, etc., submitted by........ 1865 report from committee on printing and binding in reference to printing journal, laws, etc., submitted by.. 245 254, 255 remarks of, in debate on resolution of Mr. Wells in reference to election of delegate to convention in place of Hon. Wm. H. Patterson, deceased.. 200 remarks of, in debate on resolution of inquiry of Mr. Fox to State Auditor in reference to expenses of General Assembly since 1862.............s t.. 70 remarks of, in debate on the subject of convention printing..1178, 1179, 1204 remarks of, in debate on the subject of printing debates................90 remarks of, in debate on the subject of recess of convention........ 867, 870 remarks of; in reference to order of business.......................... 855 remarks of, in reference to printing of debates.........................1030 remarks of, in reference to protests.. 1551 remarks of; on announcement of the death of Hon. A. G. Kirkpatrick..1228 remarks of, on calling up of resolu tion of Mr. Washburn in reference to morning sessions of convention. 852 remarks of, on election of president - pro ternm... 5 remarks of, on motion of Mr. Wag ner for previous question.......... 1540 remarks of, on question of privilege. 117 189, 1039, 1128, 1527, 1841 repo rt from committe e on printing and bding- in reference to publi cation of constitution, submitted by................................ 1704 report from committee on printing and binding in reference to settle ment of printing and reporting ac counts, submitted by.............. 1860 resolution authorizing seciretary to employ temporary engrossing clerik.............................. 78 resolution requesting Judge Samuel II. Treat to administer oath of office.............................. 45 resolution in reference to care of hall during recesd of convention........ 1190 resolution in reference to convention printing....................94,1179 resolution in reference to furnishing manuals to convention............ 136 resolution in referee ce to granting leave of absence................... 832 resolution in reference to justices of supreme court..................... 98 remarks of, on report from committee on accounts and expenditures of convention in reference to expenses of convention.....................1787 remarks of, on report from committee on accounts and expenditures of convention in reference to pay of janitors.......................653 remarks of, on report from committee on printing and binding in refer ence to publication of constitution.1704 1706 resolution in refer ence to limitation of debate on report trom committee on mines and mineral interests in reference to the protection of the lives of miners.................... 274 resolution in reference to payment of certain employes of conventionr.....1189 resolution in relference to payment of officers and members of convention 87 resolution in reference to payment of pages of convention............... 75 resolution in reference to per diem of members and officers of convention 98T res,:lution in reference toper diem of members and officers of convention reported back from committee on accounts and expenditures of con vention and agreed to............. 998 resolution in reference to ratification of amendment to state and national constitulions...................... 262 resolution in reference to rules of convention........................ 9 resolution of instruction to commit tee on accounts and expenditures of convention, in reference to per diem of members and officers of convention........................ 895 resolution of instruction to conamit tee on miscellaneous subjects in reference to engrossing clerk...... 78 resolution of instruction to Secretary of State in reference to publication of journal of conventioi..........* 213 remarks of, on report from committee on rules in reference to the adop tion of rule 50, limiting speeches... 490 remarks of, on resolution in reference to furnishing manuals to conven tion............................... 136 remarks of, on resolution in reference to granting leave of absence......2 a32 remarks of, on resolution in reference to payment of pages of convention. 75 remarks of, on resolution of Mr. Henrry inf reference to furnishing newspapers to members of conven tion............................... 57 remnarks of, on resolution of Mr. Me dill to app-)int Ely, Burnham & Bartlett stenographers to conven tion............................... 67 remarks of, on resolution of Mr. Sny aer in reference to removal of con vention to Chicago................ 322 remarks of, on resolution of instruc tion of Mr. Cummings to comnit tee on printing and binding in refer ence to cost of convention printing. 532 2 1 5 6 INDEX. 118 INDEX. 119 UNDERWOOD, WM. H.-Continued. communication in reference to short measure in fruits, reported' back from committee on miscellaneous subjects, by....................... 857 communication in reference to use of English language by lawyers anid physicians, reported back from committee on miscellaneous sub jects, by........................... 857 memorial in reference to proposed state university, submitted by..... 250 petition in reference to acknowledg ment of the power of the Almighty, submitted by......................1319 petition in reference to fencing lands, submitted by.........na...a.on. 884,08 petition in reference to masonic in sc~riptions upon public b-uilding-s, reported back from committee on miscellaneous subjects, by..... 257, 858 petitions in reference to observance of the Sabbath, reported back from committee on miscellaneous sub subjects, by....................... 798 petition on the subject of liberty, submitted by...................... 250 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee off banks and currency,as amended in commit tee of the whole... m m..............1686 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on coun ties as amended in committee of the whole.................... 1507, 1533 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on edu cation as amended in committee of the whole.................... 1748, 1750 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on judi ciary as amended in committee of the whole.............1395, 1400, 1404 1407, 1410, 1428, 1431, 1437 1453, 1464, 1466, 1470, 1479 1485, 1.495 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on mis cellaneous subjects in reference to homestead exemptions as amended in committee of the whole.........1691 remarks of, in debate in conventin on on report from committee on reve nue as amended in committee of the whole............1601, 1608, 1610 1617, 1618, 1774 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on right of suffrage, as amended in commit tee of the whole............1301, 1308 remarks of, in debate on motion of Mr. Church to refer to committee on judiciary his resolution in refer ence to control of railroads in re spect to rates of transportation... 149 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on banks and currency.1681 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on bill of rights...1564, 1576 remarks of, in debate on report from, amenmentof; o setion1 ofrepot - committee on bill of rights and Cuc nrfrnet osdrto from comittee n judicary, asmiscellaneous subjects in reference o eot fcmite. 2 amended in comittee of theto preamble.............231 reakofonrsltoofnsr wh~~~e.1395 ~~~~remarks of; in debate on report from to fM.Wl ocmiteo amendent f; tosecton 40of o re-committee on canal and canal landsrodaninenlnvgto,i T~ortfromcommtteeon lgisltiveand on internal improvements..340, 342 rfrnet rvt od. 3 department.624 - ~~~remarks of; in debate on report from rmrso;o ue fcneto amendent f; t secton 5of rportcommittee on counties...18332, 1334 i eeec otwsi n on from committee on revenue, as ~~~1347, 1363 t raiain7 amened i comitte of he wole 774 remarks of; in debate on report fromreakofonsbisoofptto amendmnt of to sction 1 an 2 ofcommittee on education.......1733 i eeec oakoldmn repor fro eommttte on sate, remarks of; in debate on report fromoftepwrothAlihy 11 couty nd uniipalinebtdnes 29 - committee on executive depart. - eotfo omte nades 221, 81, 304 ment..........755, 769, 785, 800 sumteby86 amendent o; to ubstiute o Mr. remarks of in debat e on report from rpr rmcmiteo iclae King t sectin 18 o repor fromcommittee on judiciary.....976, 985 ossujcsinrfrnethoe committe on jndeiary~ s amen-986, 991, 994, 998, 999, 1006 sed,sbitdb.8 ded in cmmittee f the whle.14641015, 1027, 1036, 1051, 10~59, 1067 rpr rmcmiteo iclae amendment o; to substiute of Mr.1082, 1108, 1120, 1132, 1139, 1169 ousujcsinrfrnetinoi Wall to section 7 of report from ~~~1185, 1225 eaigluossumte. 13 committeeon judicary. 1018 remarks of; in debate on report from rpr rmcmiteo iela appoined memer ofcommitee oncommittee on legislative depart-neusujcsinrfrnetoh education.75 ~~~~~~ment............498, 512, 536 srae fteSbah umte appointed member of judiciary com-542, 580, 594, 609; 632, 635 b.9 mittee.75 ~~~~~~~~~~~638, 640, 658, 676, 686, 709 eotfo omiteo icla appoined memer ofcommitee on remarks of; in debate on report fromneusujcsinrfrnetprp miscellaeous subects. 75 committee on mines and mineralartoofadestthpepeo appointe memberof commttee oninterests in reference to the protee- tesae umte y13 revision and adjustment. 75 tion of the lives of miners.....9 reotfomcmite nmselae appoited mmber f comitteeto - remarks of; in debate on report fromousujcsonpttoinrfr prepareaddressto the ete ofcommittee on miscellaneous corpo- ee osaecnttton umt the state.1783 ~~~~~rations in reference to warehouses..1628 tdb.9 UNDERWOOD, WM. H.-Continued. remarks of, in debate on report from committee on miscellaneous sub jects, in reference to homestead ex emptions.....................895, 900 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on municipal corpora tions..............................1671 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on railroad corlporations,1654 remarks of, in debate on report from committee'on railroad corporations, as amended ini committee of the whole............................ 1710 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on roads and internal 'navigation..................... 884, 892 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on state, county and municipal indebtedness........ S04, 837 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on schedule....... 1794, 1795 ,remarks of, in debate on report from committee on township organiza tion........................ 882 remarks of, in debate on resolutions in reference to oat h of office....... 10 remarks of, in debate on resolution of Mr. Church to adopt rule 49, in ref erence to the effect of tabling amendments........................ 187 remarks of, in debate on resolution of Mr. English in reference to recess of convention...................... 828 remarks of, in debate on resolution of Mr. Wells in reference to election of delegate to convention in place of Hon. Wm. H. Patterson, de ceased........................ 202, 206 UNDERWOOD, WM. H.-(a Delegate from the Fifteenth Representative District.) amendment of, to amendment of Mr. Scholfield to section 13 of report from committee on judiciary....... 1133 amendment of, to lines 3, 4, 13, 14 and 24 of section 33 of report from com mittee on legislative department.. 587 595, 609 amendment of, to report from committee on canal and canal lands and on internal improvements..... 343 amendment of, to report from com mittee on mines and mineral inter ests, in reference to the protection of the lives of miners.............. 269 amendment of, to report from com mittee on roads and internal navi gation..................... 884 amendment of, to section 2 of report from committee on banks and cur rency............................. 1679 amenciment of, to sections 12 and 15 of report from committee on bill of rights............ 1573, 1578, 1581, 1590 amendment of, to section 7 of report from committee on counties..1355,1361 amendment of, to sections 4 and 8 of report trom committeeon counties,as amended in committee of the whole1506 1519 Amendment of, to section 4 of report from committee on education...... 1737 amendment of, to section 26 of re port from committee on executive department.................... 800, 801 amendment of, to sections 9 and 13 of report from committee on execu tive, as amended in committee of the whole......................... 1374 amendment of, to sections 1, 4,16 and 20 of report from committee on ju diciary............ 975, 1212, 1059, 1094 amendment of, to section 1 of report from committee on judiciary, as amended in committee of the whole............................1395 amendment of, to section 40 of of re port from committee on legislative department........................ 624 amendment of, to section 5 of report from committee on revenue, as amended in committee of the whole 1774 amendment of, to sections 1 and 2 of report fromcommitttee on state, county and municipa lindebtedness 219 221, 851, 304 amendment of, to substitute of Mr. King to section 18 of report from committee on judiciary, as amen ded in committee of the whole..... 1464 amendment of, to substitute of Mr. Wall to section 7 of report from committee on judiciary............ 1018 appointed member of committee on education......................... 75 appointed member of judiciary com mittee............................ 75 appointed member of committee on miscellaneous subjects............ 75 appointed member of committee on revision and adjustment......................... 75 appointed member of committee to prepare address to the people of the state.......,..,..,...,,..788 I1-8 I i INDEX. 119 TURNER, THOMAS J.-Cont.inued. resolution of invitation to state offi cers to be present at administration of oath of offlee..................... 45 substitute of, to resolution of Mr. Washburn in reference to morning sessions of convention............. 852 substitute of, to section 22 of report from comm'Ittee on executive de partment............. 817 substitute of, to section 1 of report from committee on state, county and municipal indebtedness....... 216 TWO-THIRDS VOTE - in convention, remarks on rule re quiridg............................ 1841 In convention, rule requiring........ 1841 'g (TWO-MILL TAX" resolution of Mr. Atkins in reference to................ I....... 175 resolution of Mr. Vu'a'e'v'e'n'r in ref ence to............................ 97 remarks of, in debate on resolution of instructioi-i of Mr. AlleD, of Craw ford, to committee on revenue, in reference to taxation of church property used for other than religi ous purposes...................... 225 remarks of, in debate on the subject of recess of convention............ 868 remarks of, in reference to order of business........................... 231 remarks of, in reference to report f'rom committee on miscellaneous subjects, on the subject of the ob servance of the SEibbath........... 798 remarks of, on announcement of the death of Hon. H. W. Billings...... 1448 remarks of, on announcement of the death of lion. A. G. Kirkpatrick..1229 remarks of, on question of privilege.1702 remarks of, on report from committee on miscellaneous subjects, in refer ence to preparation of address to the people of the state............ 1731 remarks of, on resolution in reference Ito essay on the origin of the prai ries...................... 482 remarks of, on resolution -n. - -oi. -.4r. Cameron to appoint committee on mines R'nd mineral interests....... 85 remarks of, on resolution of Mr. Church in reference to consideration of reports of committees.......... 727 remarks of, on resolution of instruc tion of Mr. Wall to committee on roads and internal navigation, in reference to private roads......... 135 remarks of, on rules of convention in reference to township and coun ty organization........... 74 remarks of, on submission i Auction in reference to ackdowledgnient of the power of the -'ilmighty.....1310 report from committee on address, submitted by...................... 186a report from committee on miscellane ous subjects, in reference to home steads, submitt d by............... 281 report from committee on miscellane ous subjects, i reference to intoxi-, eating liquore;, submitted toy....... 1031 report from committee on miseella neour, subjects, in reference to ob se.,:vance of the Sabbath, submitted by................................. 799 report from committee on miseella i2eous subjects, in reference to prep. aration of address to the people of the state, submitted by............ 1731 report from committee on miscellane ous subjects, on petition in refer ence to state conrtituti6n,,#ubmit ted by............................ 191 120 INDEX. USE OF ENGLISH LANGUAGE by physicians and lawyers, communi cation in reference to.............. 280 by physicians and lawyers, communi cation in reference to, reported back from committee on miscella neous subjects..................... 857 VANDEVENTER, WM. L.-Continued. leave of absence granted to............rso,ideaeic 253 758, 1077 petition in reference to the removal of c ounty seats, submitte d by.....14 t petition in reference to warehouse frauds, submitted by.............. 736 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on coun ties, as amended in committee of the whole......................... 1553 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on judi ciary, as amended in committee of the whole.............1446, 1452, 1479 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on legis lative department, as amended in committee of the whole........... 922 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on right of suffrage, as amended in commit tee of the whole................... 1294 remarks of, in debate on article in reference to municipal subscrip tions to capital stock of private corporations.......................1237 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on bill of rights........ 1568 remarks of, in debate on report from committees on canal and canal lands and on internal improve ments..................... 311, 438, 449 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on counties..1327, 1349, 1350 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on education..... 1733, 1734 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on judiciary............ 995 1026, 1027, 1041, 1187, 1194, 1217 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on legislative depart ment.................... 516. 540, 598 609, 615, 622, 635, 642, 69;, 705 USE OF HALL OF REPRESENTATIVES FOR LECTURE communication in reference to....... 793 petition in reference to.....'........ 56 resolution of Mr. Anthony in refer ence to...........................1416 resolution of Mr. Bryan in reference to.................................1608 resolution of Mr. Buxton in reference to................................ 345 resolution of Mr. Dement in refer e nce to............................ 1392 resolution of Mr. Goodell in reference t o................................. 798 resolution of Mr. McDowell to re fuse........................ 859 resolution of Mr. Merriam in refer ence to....................... 615 resolution of Mr. Parks in reference focomto mcelnost................................ 704 resolution of Mr. Poage in reference to................................. 429 resolution of Mr. Rice in reference to 294 USE OF SUPREME COURT LIBRARY resolution of Mr. Haines, of Lake, in reference to....................... 782 UNDERWOOD, WM. H.-ContinueJl. report from committee on m iscellane ous subjects on preamrble to con stitution. submitted by............ 190 resolution in reference to adjourn ment.............................. 482 resolution in reference to educational appropriations and donations...... 139 resolution in reference to essay on the origin of the prairies........... 481 resolution in reference to increase of official fees during term of office... 138 resolution in reference to official fees. 179 resolution in reference to postage stamps for convention............. 93 resolution in reference to protection in public worship.................. 139 resolution in refe rence to rights and privileges of the people, etc....... 100 resolution in reference to sovereign power of convention.............. 213 resolution of Mr. Wells to establish bureau of statistics, reported back' from committee on miscellaneous subjects, by....................... 257 resolution of instruction of Mr. Bry an in reference to corporate limits of towns and cities reported back from committee on miscellaneous subjects by, and referred to commit tee on municiDal corporations..... 858 resolution of instruction of Mr. Hay in reference to bribery on the part of public officers, reported back from committee on miscellaneous subjects by........................ 857 resolution of instruction of Mr. Pills bury to committee on miscellane ous subjects in reference to invest ment of funds of insurance com panies,reported back from commit tee on miscellaneous subjects by.. 257 resolution of instruction to commit tee on bill of rights in reference to jury verdicts in civil cases......... 858 resolution of instruction to commit tee on future amendments in refer ence to future conventions......... 78 resolution of instruction to judiciary committee, in reference to future amendments to constitution....... 94 resolution of instruction to commit tee on legislature, in reference to compensation of members of legis lature and future conventions..... 78 resolution of instruction to commit tee on railroad corporations, in ref erence to Illinois Central Railroad. 78 substitute of, to amendment of Mr. Benjamin to section 37 of report from committee on legislative de partment......................... 638 substitute of, to section 26 of report from committee on executive de partment......................... 800 VALUE of postage stamps, resolution of Mr. Washburn to refund............... 346 VANDEVENTER, WI. L.-(a Delegate from the Twenty-Fifth Representative District.) additional section to report from committee on military affairs of fered by........................ 863, 865 amendment of, to additional section offered by Mr. Sedgwick to rep:)rt a from corn mittee on right of suffrage as amended in committee of the whole.............................1297 amendment of, to lines, 26, 2T and 28 of section 33 of report from com mittee on legislative departnent... 609 amendment of, to report from com emittees on canal and canal lands and on internal improvements.....avgto. 8 8311 amendment of, to resolution of Mr. Hanna, in reference to election of delegate to convention in place of Hon. B. W. Henry................. 10 31 amendment of, to substitute of Mr. I-Hanna to section 4 of report from committee on state, county and municipal indebtedness............ 850 amendment of, to substitute of Mr. Wall to section 7 ofreport from com mittee on judiciary........... 1015, 1022 amendment of, to section 7 of report from committee on bill of rights...1568 amendment of, to section 6 of report from committee on counties.......- 1333 amendment of, to section 10 of report from committee on judiciary.......t 1027 amendment of, to section 4 of report from committee on judiciary, as amended in committee of the whole............................. 1427 amendment of, to sections 2, 6,'2, 35 and 37 of report from commit tee on legislative department...... 500 705, 540, 612, 642 amendment of, to section 1 of report from committee on military affairs. 861 amendment of, to sections 1 and 2'of report from -committee on right of suffrage, as amended in committee of the whole................. 1281, 1294 amendment of, to section 9 of report from committee on schedule.......rslto 1801 amendment of, to sietion 1 of report from committee on state, county and municipal indebtedness........ 217 appointed member of committee on manufactures and agriculture..... 75 appointed member of committee on public accounts and expenditures. 75 appointed member of committee on roads and internal navigation......cto 75 appointed member of committee on township organization............. 75 remarks of, in debate o n report from committee on mi scellaneous sub jects in rrefernc e to homes tead ex emptions.................... 896 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on retrenchment and re form in reference to convention and assembly expenses since 1862...... 227 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on revenue............ 1261 12~3, 1264. 1272 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on roads and internal navigation............ 884, 885, 886, 892 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on schedule......1796, 1797 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on township organiza tion....................... 876, 877, 882 remarks of, in debate on the subject of printing prayers offered in con vention........................... 171 remarks of, in reference to recess of convention........................ 737 remarks of, on motion of Mir. McCoy to print report from committee on state, counts and municipal in debtedness........................ 190 remarks of, on question of privilege.. 76 remarks of, on resolution in reference to adjournment sine die of conven tion.............1861 remarks of, on resolution in reference to form of committee reports...... 146 remarks of, on resolution of Mr. Cary in reference to employing addition al clerical force.................... 71 remarks of, on resolution of Mr. Cody in reference to committee room of judiciary committee............... 988 remarks of, on resolution of instruc tion of Mr. Wall to committee on roads and internal navigation in reference to private roads.......... 136 resolution in reference to adjourn ment sine die of convention........ 1861 resolution in reference- to appoint ment of pages to convention....... 54 resolution in reference to binding journal of convention............. 176 resolution in reference to form of committee reports................. 146 resolution in reference to ineligibility to future office of public officers guilty of embezzlement and defal cation............................ 116 resolution in reference to #morning sessions of convention............ 702 i I 120 INDEX.. UNIFORM ASSESSMENT of taxes, resolution of Mr. Buxton in reference to....................... 127 UNIFOR,NIITY OF LAWS throughout the state, resolution of instruction of Mr. Bromwell to ju diciary committee in reference to. 116 UNITED STATES AND STATE CONSTI TUTION, &c. resolution of Mr. Anthony to print.. 72 UNNECESSA.RY Ei'dPLOYES OF CON VENTION-. remarks of Mr. Parks in reference to the adoption of report from com mittee on accounts and expendi tures ofconvention in reference to.1231 report from committ6e on accounts and expenditures of convention in reference to........... 11-111,' "I,1230 resolution of Mr. Moore in reference to................................. 1230 resolution of instruction of Mr. Cross to committee on accounts and ex penditures of conven'tion in refer,ence to........................... 1178 IJSE OF BIBLE IN CO?VIMON SCHOOLS communication in reference to....... 74.5 petition in reference to,...251, 344, 389 ..479, 51O, 560, 613#* 629, 679 702, 1030, 1103, 1129 -~~~~~~~~IDX 2 WAGNER, DAVID C.-Continued. amendment of, to section 2 of report from committee on counties......1 327 amendment of, to section 6 of report fio m committee on counties, as amended in committee of the whole.............................1518 amendment of, to section 14 of report from committee on executive de partment.......................... 781 amendment of, to section 15 of report from committee on executive, as amended in committee of the whole.............................1374 amendment of, to sections 9, 26, 29 and 323 of rep-ort from commit tee on judiciary...1027, 1110, 1145, 1171 amendment of, to section 18 of re port from committee on legislative department, as amended in commit tee of the whole................... 951 amendment of. to sections 9 and 24 of report from committee on sched ule a...........1....1801, 1807 appointed member of committee on education......................... 75 appointed member of committee on federal relations................... 75 appointed member of committee on future amendmeuts................ 75 appointed member of committee on - retrenchment and refobrm.......... 75 leave of absence granted to...... 194, 615 petition in reference to use of Bible in common schools, submitted by.. 344 c petition in reference to warehouse fiauds, submitted by............... 782 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on mis- cellaneous corporations in reference to warehouses, as amended in com mittee of the whole.......... 1696, 1697 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on counties............. 1327 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on miscellaneous corpo rations in reference to warehouses..1632 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on schedule........... 1801 remarks of in debate on resolution in reference to committee rooms..... 488 remarks of; on question of privilege..1062 remarks of, on report from committee on printing and binding in reference to publication of constitution......10 rmr ofideto 1704 remarks ofl on submission of report from committee on future amend ments.......................... 392 resolution in reference to adjourn ment, sine die, of convention....... 1596 resolution in reference to committee rooms............................ 488 resolution in reference to common schools............................ 261 resolution in reference to divorces.... 282 resolution in reference to management of prisons............................... 321 resolution in reference to pardoning power of Governor................ 194 resolution in reference to the passage of bills over veto..' ment.................. 5 63113 resolution in reference to printing de bates.............................. 987 resolution in reference to proportion ate taxation..............v.... 94 resolution in reference to town and county appropriations, etc......... 179 resolution in reference to warehouse frauds.............................. 758 resolution of inquiry to Secretary of State in reference to committee rooms............................. 282 resolution of instruction to committee on counties to amend constitution in reference to county boundaries.. 179 resolutionof instruction to committee on education to amend constitution in reference to school system of State............................. 179 substitute of, to additional section offered by Mr. Bayne to report from committee on education...........1745 WAIT, GEO. E.-Continued. amendment of, to section s 5 and 7 of report from committee on miscel laneous corpora tions in referenc e to warehouses.................165 amendment of, to sections 4 and 5 of report from com mittee on miscella - neous corporations in reference to warehouses, as amended in com mittee of the whole...........1700, 1701 amendment of, to section 1 of report from committee on miscellaneous subjects in reference to homestead exemptions.................... 904, 908 amendment of, to section 2 of report from committee on revenue.......-.1262 appointed member of committee on congressional apportionment...... 75 appointed member of committee on electoral and representative re form.............................. 75 .appointed member of committee on retrenchment and reform.......... 75 appointed member of committee on revision and adjustment........... 75 appointed menlber of committee to prepare address to the people of the state.............................. 1783 leave of absence granted to.......... 333 petition in reference to railroad and warehouse frauds, submitted by.. 702 remarks of, in debate in conven tion on report from commi ttee on banks and currency, as amended in committee of the whole........... 1685 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on coun ties, as amended in committee of the whole....................1554, 1555 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on legis lative department, ts amended in committee of the whole........... 954 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on reve nue, as amended in committee of the whole........................ 1603 remarks of, in debate in convention oni report from committee on revis ion and adjustment on schedule... 1855 remarks of, in debate on report from committees on canal and canal lands and on internal improve ments.................... 340, 381, 382 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on counities............1366C remarks of, in debate on report from committee on education........... 1738 remarks of, in debate on,report from committee on executive depart ment...................... 754, 778, 825 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on future amendments. 1317 remarks of. in debate on report from committee on judiciary............. 991 10[0, 1070, 1114, 1140 1164, 1168, 1193, 1224 remarks of, in debate on report from committee o n legislative depart ment.......................... 597, 631 remarks of" in debate on report fi om committee on mines and mineral interests in reference to the protec tion of the lives of miners......... 272 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on miscellaneous corpo rations in reference to warehouses.1634 1635 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on miscellaneous sub jects in reference to homestead ex emptions...................... 903, 904 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on revenue....... 1262, 1273 remarks oft, in debate on report from committee on township organiza tion.............................. 881 remarks of, in debate on resolutions in reference to oath of office........ 48 remarks of, in debate on the subject of printing prayers offered in con vention................., 171 remarks of, in reference to order of business........................... 854 remarks of, on announcement of the death of Hon. W. H. Patterson.... 196 remarks of, on question of privilege.. 424 1211 remarks of, on resolution of Mr. Wheaton in reference to limita tifn of debate in committee of the whole............................. 614 WAIT,, GEO. E.-(a Delegate from the For ty-sixth Representative District.) amendment of, to sections 10 and 22 of report firom committee on execu tive department...............778, 809 amendment of, to section 1 of report from committee on judiciary....... 991 amendment of, to section 4 of report from committee ou legislative de partment.................. 698 i INDEX. 121 -VANDEVENTER, WM. L.-Continued. resolution in reference to morning SeSSiODS Of convention, called up and acted upon..................... 703 resolution in reference to payment of members and otlicers of convention 429 resolution in reference to testimony of critninals....................... 72 resolution in reference to "two-mill" .tax............................... 97 resolution of instruction to commit tee on ()ill of rights, in reference to rights of prisoners' counsel in crim inal trials......................... 321 resolution of instruct!on to commit tee on legislative department, in reference to punishment for mur der................................ 282 resolution of instruction to commit tee on miscellaneous subjects, in reference to railroad and ware house frauds...................... 532 resolution of thanks to committee on revisor and adjustment........... 1869 VENTILATION OF HALL resolution of Mr. Snyder in reference to 564 resoft'l'o'n"o'f"M"r'.''W'r'!'g'h't' i'n'r'e'f'erenceli (, to................................. 1210 VERDICTS and jurors in criminal trials, resolu. tion of instruction of Mr. Abbott to committee on judiciary in refer ence to............................ 615 ,of juries in civil cases, resolution of instruction of Mr. UDderwood to committee on bill of rights in ref erence to.......................... 858 VESTING OF PARDONING POWER resolution of Mr. Snyder in reference . to............................ 151, 260 VETO resolution of Mr. Archer in reference to passage of bills over............ 67 resolution of Mr. Archer in reference to passage of bills over, taken up and referred to committee on execu tive department................... 88 resolution of Mr'' Wagner in refer ence to the passsage of bills over.. 213 VETOES executive- resolution of Mr. Haines of Lak in reference to............ 90 VFI r ESSAGES communication from'the',, Governor in reference to..................... 166, resolution of Mr. Allen, of Crawford, in reference to printing........... 151 resolution of Mr. Haines, of Lake, in r erence to..................... 153 VIRGINI& communication froi-a Governor of.... 1759 telegram of thanks from Governor of. 1550 I VOTERS legal, resolution of Mr. Robinson to amend constitution in reference to eligibility to office of.............. 212 VOTING and speech making on judiciary sub jects, resolution_ of Mr. Cross in reference to....................... 1061 WAGER, DAVID C.-(a Delegate from the Fifty-seveiith Representative District.) addititional section to report from committee on counties, as amend ed in committee of the whole, offer ed by............................. 1556 amendment of, to amendment of Mf. Buxton to section 4 of report from committee on miscellaneous corpo rations, in reference to warehoases.1632 amendment of, to amendment of Mr. Vandeventer to section 7 of report from committee on judiciary....... 1021 amendment of, to resolution of Mr. Medill in reference to judicial divi siods of the state...... w I 1011 amendment of, to sectio 1 of eport from committee on bill of rights..1559 12JJE. WALL, GEO. W.-Continuea. remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on judi ciary, as amended in committee of the whole................... 1401, 1403 1406, 1409, 1424, 1443, 1481, 1483 WALL, GEO. W.-Con tinued. resolution of instruction to commit tee on printing and binding, in ref erence to cost of printing new con stitution........................... 704 resolution of instruction to commit tee on revision and adjustment, in reference to election of masters in chancery.......................... 1789 resolution of instruction to commit tee on roads and internal naviga tion, in reference to private~roaas.. 135 resolution to amend constitution in reference to non-disqualification of witnesses on account of religious belief............................. 176 substitute of, to amendment of Mr. Anthony and Mr. Hay to section 13 of report from committee on judi ciary, as amended in committee of the whole.......................... 14A substitute of, to resolution of Mr. English in reference to recess of convention........................ 726 substitute of, to section 3 of report from committee on executive de partment.......................... substitute of, to section 7 of report from committee on judiciary....... 1014 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on legis lative department, as amended in committee of the whole... 930, 936, 937 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on revis ion and adiustment on schedule...1856 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on bill of rights........1569 reference tl1570, 1578 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on executive depart ment..........................761, 803 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on judiciary............ 983 992, 1014, 1040, 1059, 1067, 1092 1095, 1996, 1125, 11"8, 1132 WALKER, REV. MR. prayer offered by...... 196, 618, 702, 1128 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on legislative depart ment.............................. 514 525, 537, 554, 582, 619. 697,720, 739 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on m iscellaneous sub jects in refreence to hom es te ad e x emptions......................... 907 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on revision a nd adjust ment on article on bill of rights....1777 rem ark s of, in debate on report from committee on schedule............ 1802 remarks of, in debate on report fr om comWmittee on s chedu le, as amended in committee of the whole.........1831 remarks of, in deb ate on report from committee on state, county and municipal ind ebtedness....299, 300, 301 remarks of, in d ebat e on resolution of Mr. Wel ls in reference to elec tion of delegate to convention in place of Hon. Wm. HI. P-atterson, deceased.......................197, 206 remarks of, in reference to amend ment of rules...................... 1369 remarks of, in reference to printing address and constitution........... 1842 remarks of, on proposition in refer ence to railroad and municipal in debtedness of Quincy, IlI..........1. 867 remarks of, on question of privilege. 178 588 additional section to report from committee on legislative depart ment, as amended in committee of the whole, offered by.............. 930 amendmnent of,to lines 23, 24 and 2b of section 33 of report from commit tee on legislative department...... 609 amendment of, to report from com mittee on printing and binding, in reference to printing constitution and address, etc................... 1790 amendment of, to resolution of Mr. Washburn in reference to printing resolutions......................... 88 amendment of, to rule 53............ 1369 amendment of, to section 9 of report from committee on bill of rights...1570 amendment of, to section 4 of report from committee on counties, as amended in committee of the whole............................. 1506 amendment of, to section 3 of report from committee on executive de partment......................... 760 amendment of, to section 13 of report from committee on judiciary....... 1126 amendment of, to sections 5 and 13 of report from committee on judiciary as amended in committee% of the whole........................ 1401, 1443 amendment of, to section 12 of report from committee on legislative de partment.......................... 525 amendment of, to section 6 of report from committee on schedule......1794 amendment of, to substitute of Mr. Dement to section 24 of report from committee on legislative de partment.......................... 554 appointed member of committee on congressional apportionment...... 75 appointed member {of committee on counties........................... 75 appointed member of committee on judicial circuits.................... 75 appointed member of committee on judicial divisions of the state...... 1103 appointed member of committee on judiciary in place of Mr. Billings, resigned........................... 531 appointed member of committee on mining and mineral interests....... 93 appointed member of committee on miscellaneous corporations........ 75 appointed member of committee on schedule in place of Mr. Billings resigned........................-.1324 article in reference to establishment of state university, submitted by.. 194 certificate of election of Hon. Ferris Forman, presented by............. 1232 communi(cation in reference to taxa tion, submitted by................ 479 leave of absence granted to........ 56, 851 petition in reference to location of railroad offices, submitted by...... 510 Kemarks of, in debate in convention on report from committeemen coun ties, as amended in committee of the whole.............. 150, 1525, 1536'B WARDNER, REV. MpR. prayer offered by................ 289, 72 remarks of, on report from committee on printing and binding, in refer amendment~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ of9o,siueo r ortfctino mnmnst u ujcs in refrnet. 3 ence to printing constitution and address, etc....................... 1790 remarks of, on resolution in reference to e mployment of enrolling clerks by committee on re vision and adjustment............ mte o..1846 remarks of, on resolution in re ferene to ratification of amendments to co n stitution............1........ 56 remarks of, on resolution of instruc tion to committee on peniten tiary and r efo r ma tory institutions i n ref erence to state penitentiary.......I1277 remarks of, on resolution of instrue tion to committee on revision and adjustment in reference to election of masters in chancery............ 1789 remarks of, on reso lutio n of in struc - tion to committee on road s and in ternal navigatio n, i n referen ce to private roads................Bi.. 135, 136 resolution in reference to adjourn ment, sine die, of convention.......10 1233 resolution in reference to the employ ment ot enrolling c le rks by com mittee on revision and adjustment.1845 resolution in reference to g rand jury and indictments by................ 174 resolution in reference to manage ment of state peniteenentiary 679 resolution in reeerence to ratificati on of amendments to the constitution 55 resolution in reference to sale of prodp erty for debt....................... 615 resolution of inquiry to Auditor of Public Accounts, in reference to ex penses of state penitentiary since 1867................................ 178 resolution of instruction to commit tee on penitentiary and reformatory institutions, in reference to state penitentiary..................... 1277 WAREHOUSE AND RAILROAD FRAUDS petition in reference to......560, 590 627 . 55 by c 654, 679, 702, 757 resolution of instruction of Mr.'Van venter to committee on miscellane ous subjects, in reference to....... 532 I 122 INDEX. WAIT, GEO. E. -Continued. report from committee on retrench ment and reform in reference, to convention and assembly expenses since 1862, submitted by............ 226 resolution in reference to elections and bribery at elections............ 98 resolution in reference to powers of state departments..........:1111, 98 resolution-in reference to wording of amendments to constitution....... 98 resolution of instruction to commit tee on military affairs, in reference to establishment of a military school............................. 194 resolution to amend constitution in reference to limitation of eiatall... 194 resolution to close convention with prayer............................. 1863 substitute of, to section 8 of report from committee on counties as amended in committee of the whole............................. 1554 WALL, GEO. W.-(a Delegate from the Eighth Representative District.) WARDEN OF PENITENTIARY resolution of inq'uiry to of Mr. Archer, in reference to convicts pardoned cLur!Dg the last 10 years.. 154 WAREHOUSES debate on report from committee on Miscellaneous corporations, in ref. erence to.................. 16>2 to 1637 debate in convention on rep'rt from committee on miscellaneous corpo Fations in referen e to, as amended in committee of the whole.. 1693 to 1701 report from committee on miscella neous corporation8'in referenceto, referred to committee on revision and adjustment...............:....1701 report from committee on revision and adjustment, on article on..... 1834 resolution of instruction of Mr. Whit ing to committee on revision and adjustment in reference to......... 1-707 WAREHOUSE FRAUJ)S petition in reference to...... 589, 736,782 . resolution of Mr. Wagner in reference to................................. 758 WASHBURN, JAS. H.-(a Delegate from the Sixth Representative District.) additional section to report from com mittee on miscellaneous corpora. tions, offered by................... 1667 amendment of, to amendment of Mr. Fiiller to section 18 of report from committee on judiciary....1073 amendment of, to article in reference to municipal subscriptions to cap ital stock of idrivate corporations-..1236 amendment of, to section 3 of report from committee on banks and eu.r rency, as amended in committee of the whole......................... 1686 amendment of, to section 6 of report from committee on counties....... 1333 amendment of, to sections 6 and 1 of' report from committee on counties as amended in committee of the whole....................... 1509, 1521 amendment of, to section 1 of report from committee on executive de partment.......................... 7,% amendment of, to section 17 of report from committee on executive, as amended in committee of the whole:............... 137-1 am en di i,'t'section 37 of report - from committee on legislative, de partment.............. p...... 637, 642 amendment of, to section 3 of report from committee on military affairs. 863 IND1X'. 123 WASHBURN, JAS. H.-Continued. remarks of, in debate on report from committee on printing and binding, in reference to furnishing newspa pers to convention................comte 133 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on railroad corporationsl639 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on retrenchment and re form, in reference to convention and assembly expenses since 1862.. 241 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on revenue.............1254 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on schedule.1794, 1796, 1809 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on state, county and municipal indebtedness........... 844 remarks of, in debate on resolution of Mr. English in reference to ad journment........................ 86 remarks of, in debate on resolution of Mr. Wells in reference to election of delegate to convention in place of Hon. Wm. H. Patterson, deceased.. 207 remarks of. in debate on the subject:f oo t of printing prayers offered in con vention.......................... 171 remarks of, in reference to recess of convention................... 736 remarks of, in reference to report from committee on right of suf frage.............................. 856 remarks of, on question of privilege..1703 1814 remarks of, on resolution in reference to separate schools for white and colored children................... 679 remarks of, on resolution to refund value of postage stamps........... 346 remarks of, on resolution of Mr. Tur ner in reference to furnishing man uals to convention................ 137 remarks of, on resolution of instruc tion of Mr. Wall to committee on roads and internal navigation in reference to private roads......... 136 remarks of, on submission of report :-from committee on future amend ments........9 aedet... f..... 392 resolution in reference to application of 7 per cent. tax of Illinois Cen tral Railroad.........194 resolution in reference to general taxation for local benefit.......... 194 resolution in reference to morning sessions of convention............. 835 resolution in reference to morning sessions of convention, called up.. 852 resolution in reference to printing resolutions........................ 88 resolution in reference to recess of convention........................1077 resolution in reference to releasing Ill. Cent. R. R Co. from certain obligations........................ 72 resolution in reference to right of sol diers to vote....................... 100 resolution in reference to secretary's clerk................5.1211 resolution in reference to separate schools for white and colored chil dren....................... 679 resolution in reference to separate schools for white and colored chil dren called up and acted upon apone 7m3 resolution of instruction to commit tee on schedule in reference to sepa rate submission of articles of con stctution counties.......v...... tt.1796 resolution to refund value of postage stamps..........................7346 substitute of, to report from commit tee on right of suffrage, as amend ed in committee of the whole.... 1282 substitute of, to section 7 oi report from committee on counties.......1354 substitute of, to section 20 of report from committee on schedule as amended in committee of the whole..182 frage. submitted.by....1829 amendment of, to amendment of Mr. Cummings to section 4 of report from committee on judiciary....... 1000 amendment of, to amendm ent of Mr. Fuller, to section 18 of report from committee on judiciary....... 1072, 1073 amendment of, to sections 4 and 15 of report from committee on bill of rights..................... 1566, 1580 amendment of, to section 5 of report from committee on counties, as amended in committee of the wholel539 amendment of, to section 1 of minor ity report from committee on fu ture amendments.................. 1312 amendment of, to sections 14 and 16 of report from committee on judi ciary......................... 1054, 1196 amendment of, to sections 1 and 8 of report from committee on judiciary, as amended in committee of the whole........................ 1398,1434 amendment of, to section 10 of report from committee on legislative de partment.. 723 amendment of, to section 3 of report from committee on railroad corpo ratibns, as amended in committee of the whole...................... 1718 amendment of, to section 4 of report from committee on revenue........ 1266 amendment of, to section 4 of report firom committee on state, county and municipal indebtedness....... 847 amendment of, to substitute of Mr. Browning to section 7 of report from committee-on judiciary-...1225 amendment of, to substitute of Mr. Sedgwick to additional section to report from committee on right of suffrage, as amended in committee of the whole, offered by Mr. Sedg wick.............................. 1301 amendment of, to substitute of Mr. Wagner, to additional section of fered by Mr. Bayne to report from committee on education, as amend ed in committee of the whole..... 1753 announcement of the death of Hon. A. G. Kirkpatrick, by............. 1229 appointed member of committee of investigation in reference to com munication from Secretary of State in regard to stationery furnished to convention...................1828 appointed member of committee on legislature......................... 75 appointed member of committee on manufactures and agriculture...... 75 appointed member of committee on military affairs................... 75 appointed member of committee on mining and mineral interests...... 93 appointed member of committee on public accounts and expenditures.. 75 communication in reference to Illi nois and Michigan canal, submitted by..............................1477 communication in reference to roads, submitted by...................... 177 communication in reference to State University, ~ubmitted by.................. 236 leave of absence granted to.................333s 864; petition in reference to female suf frage, submitted by.................... 487 petition in reference to observance of the Sabbath, submlitted b y.....745 petition in reference to observance of the seventh day, submitted byv....103 proposed amendments to judiciary article, submitted by....................1130 protest in relation to female suffrage, 5 submitted by.......... 1277, 1528 15U remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee pn coun ties, as amended in committee of the whole....,.........;..e..e,.....1539 WASHINGTON'S BIRTHDAY resolution of Mr. Wendling on the subject of......................... 782 resolution of Mr. Wendling on the subject of, called up.............. 793 WASHIINGTON'S FAREWELL ADDRESS read by secretary of convention..... 795 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on judiciary... 983 1015, 1027, 1049, 1096, 1102, 1114 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on legislative depart ment...................597, 722, 734 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on miscellaneous corpo rations............................ 1668 I-32 INDEX' 123 WASHBURN, JAS. H.-Continued. amendment of, to section 8 of report from committee on revenue........ 1280 amendment of, to section 2 of report from committee on revenue, as amended in committee of the whole............................. 1604 amendment of, to sections 7, 9 and 11 of report from committee on schedule............... 1797, 1804, 1809 amendment of, to section 1 of report from committee on state, county and municipal indebtedness....... 217' amendment of, to section 2 of report from committee on state, county and municipal indebtedness, as amended in committee of the whole............................. 1257, amendment of, to substitute of Mr. Hanna to section 4 of report from committee on state, county and municipal indebtedness........... 850 appointed member of committee on accounts and expenditures of con vention..........................: 93 appointed member of committee on finance.......................... 75 appointed member of committee on future amendments................ 75 appointed member of committee on penitentiary and reformatory insti tutions............................ 75 appointed member of committee on state institutions and public build ings.............................. 75 leave of absence granted to......... 453 483, 873 WELLS, HENRY W.-(a Delegate from the Thirty-sixth Representative District.) additional section to article on legis tive department, as reported by committee on revision and adjust ment, offered by................... 1781 additional section to report from committee on railroad corpora tions, offered by.................. 1663 amendment of, to additional section offered by,Mr. Sedgwick to report from comnittee on right of suf frage as amended in committee of the whole......................... 1297 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on judicl ary, as amended in committee of the whole......................... 1412 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on legisla tive department, as amended in committee of the whole........... 951 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on reve nue, as amended in committee of the whole................... 1604, 1611 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on re vision and adjustment on schedule.1857 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on right of suffrage, as amended in com mittee of the whole.......... 1283, 1297 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on state, county and municipal indebtedness, as amended in committee of the whole....................... 1257, 1259 remarks of, in debate on article in reference to municipal subscriptions to capital stock of private corpora tions........................ 1236, 1238 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on banks and currency. 1684 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on bill of rights........ 1562 remarks of, in debate on report from committees on bill of rights and miscellaneous subjects in reference to preamble........................ 278 remarks of, in debate on report from committees on canal and canal lands, and on internal improvements 430 431 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on counties.... 1 333 ~1350, 1354, 1367 I remarks of, in debate on report from committee on education.......... 1734 1739 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on executive depart ment..................... 754, 758, 802 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on finance.............. 1784 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on future amendments.1310 1311 124 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~DEX.~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ WELLS, HENRY W.-Continued. remarks of, on resolution of Mr. Tur- ner in reference to furnishing man uals to convention................ 136 remarks of, on the subject of print- ing prayers offered in convention. 140 resolution in reference to adjourn ment........................i.... 453 resolution in reference to adoption of amendments to constitution.......1156 resolution in reference to bribery in General Assembly................. 1477 resolution in reference to election of delegate to convention in place of Hon. W. H. Patterson, deceased... 197 resolution in reference to employment of clerks by committee on printing and binding...............13........ 533 resolution in reference to heading of stationery furnished to members of convention......................... 72 resolution in reference to location of national capital.................... 213 resolution in reference to printing de. bates.............................. 987 resolution in reference to railroad tariff.............................. 1477 resolution in reference to ratifica tion of amendments to constitu tion............................... 56 resolution in reference to recess of convention....................... 859 resolution in reference to state indebt edness for railroads............... 72 resolution in reference to state in debtedness and revenue.........7 rmr.. 72 resolution of instruction to door keeper in reference to ink......... 429 resolution to establish a bureau of statistics.......................... 213 resolution to establish a bureau of statistics reported back from com mittee on miscellaneous subjects.. 257 resolution to print order of presi dent appointing additional comrn, mittees...........:................ 10C resolution to purchase 200 copies of manual............................ 145 resolution to rescind resolution of inquiry of Mr. Fox to Auditor of state in reference to expenses of General Assembly since 1862 and of constitutional convention of 1862.. 80 substitute of, to additional section to report from committee on legisla tive department, offered by Mr. Haines, of l,ake................... 743 substitute of, to report from commit tee on printing and binding in ref erence to printing constitution and address............................ 1843 substitute of, to resolution of Mr. eHanna in reference to election of delegate to convention in place of iHon. B. W. Henry.................1032 substitute of, to sections, 1, 13 and 16 of report from committee on judi ciary....................976,1134, 1055 substitute of, to section 13 of re port from committee on judiciary, as amended in committee of the whole...............1443 subs' itite oftosection 1 of report from committee on right of suffrage, as amended in committee of the whole.1283 WENDLING, GEORGE R.-Continued. amendment of, to section 9 o f report from committee on judiciary....... 1024 amendment of, to sectio n 2 of report from committee on revenue........ 1263 amendment of, to section 2 of report from committee on state, county and municipal indebtedness, as amended in committee of the whole.1259 appointed member of committee on banks and currency................ 75 appointed member of committee on electoral and representative re form............................... 75 appointed member of committee on federal r-elations................... 75 appointed member of committee on penitentiary and reformatory insti tutions............................ 75 minority report from committee on federal relations, submitted bv.....1155 petition in reference to the formation of new counties, submitted by..... 726 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on coun ties, as amended in committee of the whole......................... 1556 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on education as amended in committee of the whole....................... 1750, 1752 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on judi ciary, as amended in committee of the whole...............1401, 1486, 1497 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on legis lative department, as amended in committee of the whole........... 949 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on right of suffrage, as amended in commit tee of the whole.............. 1285,1305 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on bill of rights........ 1565 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on federal relations..... 1765 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on judiciary............ 1024 ~ 1025, 1165, 1166, 1186, 1194 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on legislative depart ment.......................... 504, 520 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on -military affairs.. 865, 866 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on -roads and internal navigation.................... 888, 891 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on schedule.......1798,1803 remarks of, in debate on resolution in reference to ratification of amend ments to federal constitution...... 161 remarks of, in reference to printing debates........................... 1030 remarks of, on announcement of the death of Hon. Charles Emmerson..1336 remarks of, on calling up of resolu tion on the subject of Washitrgton's birth-day.......................... 793 remarks of, on report from committee on accounts and expenditures of convention, in reference to expenses/8 of convention........................18 remarks of, on r eport from committee on miscellaneous subjects, in refer ence to preparation of address to the people of the state........1731 remarks of, on resolution in reference to furnisl^,ng additional postage stamps to secretary of convention. 367 remarks of, on resolution to attend charity ball............................ 182 remarks of, on resolution of inquiry of Mr. Anthony to Alexander Starne, trustee, &c., and to Auditor of State, in reference to ]ands belong ing to Joel A. Matteson....... 335 resolution in reference to amendment of pleadings, &c ***............ 261 resolution in reference to ratification of amendments to Federal consti tution................ 161 resolution of instruction to committee on printing and binding in reference to printing debates in German.... 213 resolution to attend charity ball.... 182 resolution to furnish postage stamps to secretary of conlvention....367, 1231 resolution on the subject of Washing: ton's birthday................. 78X resolution on the subject of Washing ton's birthday called up.. a.......... 793 WENDLING, GEORGE R.-(a Delegate from the Eighteenth Representative District.): additional section to report from committee on counties, as amended in committee of the whole, offered by.................................1555 additional section to report from com mittee on judiciary, offered by.-..1194 additional section to report from committee on judiciary, as amend ed in committee of the whole, offer ed by............................. 1497 additional section to report from com mittee on military affairs, offered by............................... 865 amendment of, to amendment of Mr. Atkins to section 6 of majority re poit from committee on counties..1334 amendment of, to report from com mittee on roads and internal naviga tion............ v................... 888 amendment of, to section 21 of re port from committee on executive, as amended in committee of the whole...........................1376 r ema rk s of, in debate on report from committee on legislative depart ment.............................. 498 513, 546, 584, 605, 675, 718, 723 remarks of, in debate on leport from committee on mines and mineral interests in reference to protection of the lives of miners.......... 270, 271 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on railroad corporations.1655 1656, 1663 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on revenue............. 1243 1244, 1265, 1266, 1267 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on revision and adjust -ment on article on bill of rights...1777 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on state, county and municipal indebtedness............ 839 remarks of, in debate on resolutions in reference to oath of office..... 17, 45 remarks of, in debate on resolution in reference to election of delegate to convention in place of Hon. Wm. H. Patterson, deceased.......... 197, 207 remarks of, in debate on resolution of inquiry of Mr. Fox to State Auditor in reference to expenses of general assembly since 1862, and of consti tutional convention of 1862........ 80 remarks of, in debate on the subject of printing prayers offered in con -vention........................ 172 remarks of, in reference to effect of motion to adjourn................. 1549 remarks of, in reference to holding evening sessions of convention..... 375 remarks of, in reference to order of business.......................... 832 remarks of, in reference to printing address and constitution..... 1842, 1843 remarks of, on announcement of the death of Hon. Charles Emmerson.. 1134 remarks of, on article on distribution ,of the powers of the state govern ment.............................. 279 remarks of, on communication from Secretary of State, in reference to stationery furnished to co,nvention..1817 remarks of, on motion of Mr. McCoy to print report from committee on state, county and municipal indebt edness............................. 189 remarks of, on question of privilege..1178 remarks of, on resollation to purchase 200 copies of man uat.............. 145 I IENDEX. 124 WELLS, HENRY W.-Continued. remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on judici ary, as amended in committee of the whole......................... 1411 -1412, 1436, 1443, 1445, 1454 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on legis lative department, as amended'in committee of the whole,..941, 942, 961 remarks of, iD debate in convention on report from committee on rail road corporations, as amended in committee of the whole...... 1711,1712 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on right of suffra- le, as amended in commit tee of the whole................... 1283 12,85, 1297, 1301, 130,'), remarks of, in debate in reference to election of assistant postmaster of convention....................... 54 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on bill of rights... 1567,1580 remarks of, in debate on report from committees on canal and canal landt3 and on internal improvements 438 439, 4-40. 441, 477, remarks of, in debate on report from committees on canal and canals lauds and on internal improve meiits, as amended in committee of the whole.......................... 485 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on counties............ 1358. remarks of, in dbate on report from committee on executive depart ment.............................. 775 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on future amendments.. 1312 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on judiciary............ 967 1013, 1015, 10,5, 1055, 1060, 1,085" 1121 1124, 1131, 113'?,, 1134, 1135 1144, 1195 119, 1214, 1216 -~~~~~~~~JDX 2 WEDIG,GOG R.-C~iud. WHAN,C8...Co.........WREATON,..CH....Co.f.n... WHEATON, CHAS.-Continued. appointed member of committee on canal and canal lands.............. 75 appointed member of executive com mittee............................ 75 appointed member of committee on judicial circuits.................... 75 appointed member of committee on miscellaneous corporations........ 75 appointed member of committee on revision and adjustment...........1338 leave of absence granted to.......... 167 236, 487, 831, 851, 873, 1587 WHlE ATON, CHAS.-Continued. remarks of, in debate on report from committee on railroad corporations.1640 1648 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on revenue..1'261, 1263, 1276 remarks of, in debate on report from committe e on state, county and municipal indebtedness............ 217 remarks of, in debate on resolutions in reference to oath of office..32, 34, 35 remarks of, in debate on resolution of Mr. Washburn in reference to printing resolutions............... 89 remarks of, in debate on resolution of Mr. Wells in reference to election of delegate to convention in place of HIon. Wm. H. Patterson, de cea-ed......................... 208 remarks of, in debate on resolution of instruction of Mr. G)oodhue to committee on revision and adjust ment in reference to section 6 of article on right of suffrage......... 1725 remarks of, in reference to amend ment of rules...................... 1368 remarks of, in reference to holding evening sessions of convention.... 375 remarks of, in reference to order of business........................... 309 remarks*)f, on announcement of the death of Hon. Chas. Emmerson....1338 remarks of, on presentation of report from committee on right of suf frage.............................. 159 remarks of, on resolution in reference to abolishment of committee of the whole.......................... 1867 remarks of, on resolution of Mr. English in reference to distribution of committee reports............... 338 remarks of, on resolution of instruc-, tion to committee on revision hnd adjustment in reference to article on warehouses..................... 1707 remarks of, on resolution of instruc tion of Mr. Neece to committee on revision and adjustment in refer ence to section 11 of j adiciary article............................ 1763 remarks of, on resolution of instruc tion of Mt-. Wall to- commifttee on revision and adjustment in r efir ence to election of masters in ch tn cery............................... 1790 remarks of, on the subject of the special order in reference to certain reports........................ 482, 483 report from committee on canal and canal lands, submitted by......... 210 resolution in reference to abolish ment of committee of the whole...1367 resolution in reference to appropria t,ion of private property for public use...............................88 resolution in reference to circuit courts.............................. 72 resolution in reference to delivery of printed copies of reports of stand ing committees.................... 194 resolutionl in reference to evening ses sions of convention....................... 402 resolution in reference to limitation of debate ill committee of the whole............................. 613 resolution of inlstructionl to commit tee on mli~scellaneous subjects, in referenc~e t ) construction of the word "offce"..................................... 782 r esolution of instruction to commit tee on revision and adjustment in reference to article on warehouses. 1707Y resolution of instruction to committee on township organization in refer ence to boards of supervisors................. 1S55 resolultion of thanks to president, pro tern.............................. 56 sub~stitute ofl to amendment of Mr. Wells to section 10 of* report from committee on legislative depart ment............................... 724 substitute of, to- section 7 of report fr om committee on counties....................1360 substitute of, to section 18 of report from committee on judiciary..... 1091 petition in reference to extraordinary judicial oath, submitted by........101.2 petition in reference to location of railroad offices, submitted by..365, 589 petition in reference to railroad and warehouse frauds, submitted by... 757 petition in reference to sale of intoxi cating liquors, submitted by...... 344 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on coun ties, as amended in committe of the whole....................... 1507 1538 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on future amendments, as amended in com mittee of the whole............... 1595 remarks of in debate in convention on report from committee on judici ary, as amended in committee of the whole......................... 1396 1398, 1399, 1424, 1451, 1495, 1499 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on mis cellaneous corporations in reference to warehouses, as amended in com mittee of the whole...............1701 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committe on rail road corporations, as amended in committee of the whole...........1714 1718, 1720, 1721 WHEATON, CHAS.-(a Delegate from the Fittv-Second Representative District.) additional section to report from com mittee on executive, as amended in committee of the whole, offered by.1386 additional section to report from com mittee on judiciary, as amended in committee of the whole, offered by. 1416 addi tional section t o report from committee on railroad corporations, offered by........................ 164 additional section to report from committee on railroad corporations, as amended in committee of the whole, offered by................. 1721 amendment of, to additional section offered by Mr. Allen, of Crawford, to report from committee on-rail road corporations, as amended in committee of the whole........... 1722 amendment of, to amendment of Mr. Anthony to section 86 of report from committee on judiciary, as amended iDICommittee of the whole.1478 amendment of, to amendment of Mr. Church to section 7 of report from committee on counties, as amended in committee of the whole........ 1553 amendment of, to amendment of Mr. Cody to section 23 of report from committee on judiciary...... 1101 amendment of, to amendment of Mr. Cumamings to section 16 of report from committee on judiciary...... 1056 amendment of, to amendment of Mr. Wright to section 6 of majority re port from committee on counties.1339 amendment of, to resolution of Mr. Sedgwick in reference to adjourn mlent............................. 87 amendment of, to section 17 of article on judiciary, as reported by com mittee on revision and adjustment.1831 amendment of, to section 6 of report from committee on banks and cur reicy............................. 1680 amendment of, to section 15 of report from committee on bill of rights...1575 amendment of, to section 7 of report from committee on counties.......1361 amendment of, to sections 4 and 5 of report from committe on coun ties, as amended in committee of the-,whole..............1506, 1507, 1534 amendment of, to section 12 of report from committee on executive de partment...................... 780, 824 amendment of, to section 22 of re port from committee on executive, as amended in committee of the whole............................. 1386 amendment of, to section 2 of report from committee on future anend ments, as amended in committee of the whole:....................... 1595 amendment of, to section I of report from committee on judiciary...... 980 984, 990, 991 amendment of, to sections 1 and 15 of report from committee on judicia ry, as amended in committee of the whole................139B, 1397, 1451 ,amendment of, to section 7 of report from committee on miscellaneous corporations in reference to ware houses.....................135 amendment of, to sections 2 and 6 of report from committee on miscella neous corporations in reference to warehouses, as amended in comlmit tee of the whole.............1699, 1701a amendment of, to section 4 of report from committee on railroad corpo rations, as amended in commnittee of tile whole............,....1715 amendment of, to section 2 of report from committee on revenue................1263 amendment of, to section 8 of sched ule, as reported by committee on rev-isio)n and adjustment.................1850 amenadmeent of, to substitute of Mr. Easy to amnendllnent of Mr. Hayes to section 1 of report from commit tee on judiciary, as am-endetd in committee ot the Whole.....................1398 amendment of, to substitute of Mr. Hay to section 7 of report frolm committee on counties............ t....1344 remarks of, in debate in conventiout on report from committee on revis - ion and adjustment on schedule....18.e)) 16.... A 1854, 185(a.7 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on sched ule, as amended in committee of the whole cut.........1...........1820 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on state, county and municipal indebtedness, as amended in committee of the whole..:..........................1259 remarks of, in debate on resolution of 7Mr. Merriam to resolution of in quiry of Mr. Fox to State Auditor, in reference to expenses of general assembly since 1862.................io 69 remarks of, in debate on motion of Mr. Church to refer to committee of the whole, substitute to portion of report from committees on canal and canal lands and on internal im provements....................... 333 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on banks and currency.1680 remarks of, in debate on report fir-om committee on bill of rights........151 o t571 1576, 1589 remarks of, in debate on report fromr committees on canal and canal lands and on internal improvements..... 311 358, 455, 456, 45S, 459, 460, 464, 467 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on counties.............1333 1339, 1357, 1360 remarks of, in debate on report fi om comm ittee on education...........1738 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on executive department 751 763, 776, 781 783, 812, 814 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on future amendments.1317 1318 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on judiciary............ 97 9 980, 995, 1018, 1019), 1034, 1042, 1054 1071, 1093, 1102, 1103, 1106, 1120, 1138 r emarks of, in debate on report from committee on legislative depart ment.............................. 595 714, 715, 717, 720, 725, 733, 737 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on miscellaneous corpo rations, in referenceto warehouses.1627 1636 WHIITING, L. D.-(a Delegate from the Forty-fiftLh Representative Distriet.) amendment of, to report from com mittee on mines and mineral inter ests, in reference to the protection of the lives of miners......W-...... 2&7 i INDEX. 125 WENDLING, GEORGE R,-Continued. substitute of, to resolution on the subject of WashiDgton's birthdav.. 794 12- INDEX...............................................................: WHOLE, COMMITTEE OF-Continued. debate in, on report from committees on canal and canal lands and on in ternal improvements........ 310 to 479 debate in, on report from committee on counties......... 1324 to 1367 debate in, on report from committee on education.............. 1732 to 1745 debate in, on report from committee on executive department.... 745 to 826 debate in, on report from committee on future amendments..... 1309 to 1318 debate in, on report from committee on judiciary............... 974 to 1228 debate in, on report from committee on legislative department.... 490 to 743 debate in. on report from comnmittee on military affairs............ 860 to 864 debate in, on report from committee on mines and mineral interests in reference to the protection of the lives of miners.............264 to 273 r debate in, on report from committee on miscellaneous corporations.....14 usjtire 1664 to 1669 debate in, on rcport from committee on miscellaneous corporations in reference to warehouses....1622 to 1637 debate in, on report from committee on miscellaneous subjects, in refer ence to homestead exemptions..... 895 to 912 debate in, on report from municipal corporations..............1669 to 1676 debate in, on report from committee on railroad corporations....1637 to 1664 debate in, on report from committee on revenue.... 1196 to 1202, 1242 to 1280 debate in, on report from committee on right of suffrage.......... 1280, 1281 debate in, on report from committee on roads and internal navigation... 883 to 894 debate in, on report from committee on schedule...............1791 to 1810 debate in, on report from committee on state, county and municipal in debtedness.................. 214 to 222 284 to 305, 833 to 851 debate in, on report from committee on township organization....873 to 882 debate in convention, on article on municipal subscription to capital stock of private corporations, as amended in....................... 1730 debate in convention on report from committee on banks and currency, as amended in............. 1685 to 1688 debate in convention on report from committees on canal and canal lands and on internal improve ments, as amended in.......484 to 487 debate in convention on report from committee on counties, as amended in...............1502 to 1557 debate in convention on report from committee on education, as amend ed in.......................1745 to 1761 debate in convtention on report from committee on executive, as amend ed in. 1369 to 1388 debate in convention on report from committee on future amendments, as amended in............1591 to 1595 i debate in convention on report from committee on judiciary, as amend ed in...............1393 to 1501 debate in convention on report from committee on legislative depart ment, as amended in.........917 to 972 debate in convention on report from committee on miscellaneous corpo ratiuns, as amended in............1702 debate in convention on report from committee on miscellaneous corpo rations, in reference to warehouses, as amended in............1693 to 1701 debate in convention on report from committee on miscellaneous sub jects, in reference to homestead ex-h emptions, as amended in...1689 to 1692 debate in convention on report from committee on municipal corpora tions, as amended in.......1723 to 1725 debate in convention on report from committee on railroad corporations, as amended in..............1708 to 1723 debate in convention on report from committee on revenue, as amended in on 1prf!;cmi.15.7 to 1621, 1774 to 1776 debate in convention on report from committee on right of suffrage, as amended in................ 1281 to 1309 WHITING, L. D.-Continved. amenpment of, to resolution of Mr. Allen, of Crawf ord, to appoin t com mittee to prepare rules of conven tion............................... 51 amendment of, to section 2 of report from committee on state, county and municip al ind ebtedness........ 2ca9 appointed member of committee on canal and canal lands.............. 75 appointed member of committee on counties........................... 75 appointed member of committee on internal improvements............ 75 appointed member of committee on state institutions and public build ings............................... 75 communication on the subject of mines and mining, submitted by... 210 complimentary resolution in reference to essay on origin of the prairies.. 488 leave of absence granted t o. 782 petition in riefetrence to war ehouse and railroad frauds, submitted bv.. 627 remarks of, in debate in convention on report from committee on educa tion, as amended in committee of the whole.........................1746 remarks of, in debate on report from committees on canal and canal lands and on internal ipprove mnents.................... 39, 360, 438 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on education..... 1737, 1739 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on executive depart ment............................. 772 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on legislative depart ment......... 508, 520, 566, 63,5, 657, 677 remarks of, in debate on report from .s committee on mines and mineral interests in reference to the protec tion of the lives of miners.......... 267 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on rules of convention.. 60 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on state, county and municipal indebtedness............ 284 285, 286, 287, 283,'99 remarks of, in reference to article on canal and canal lands.............. 1832 remarks of, in reference to considera tion of report from committee- on canal and canal lands in regard to certain modifications of article on canal............................. 1745 remarks of, in reference to order of business...................... 263, 309 remarks of, on complimentary reso lution in reference to essay on the origin of the prairies.............. 488 remarks of, on report from commit tee on public accounts and expen ditures in reference to future appro priations for the state house....... 1772 remarks of, on resolution in reference to considering railroads as public corporations.................. 146, 147 remarks of, on submission of petition in reference to railroed and ware house frauds....................... 627 remarks of. on submission of statis tics,n reference to the cost of Illi nois & Michigan Canal................. 366 report fi'om committee on canal and canal lands in reference to certain modifications of article on canal, submitted by.......................1649 report from committee on internal improvements, submitted by..............'256 resolution in reference to considering railroads as public corporations.... 146 resolution in reference to Ilq-nois &; Michigan Canal..................... 100 resolution oi inquiry to Auditor of State in reference to state canal.... 236 resolution of instruction to judiciary committee in reference to preven -tion of bribery, etc., in connection with public affairs.................... 93 WRIGHT, O. H.-(a Delegate from the Twenty-sixth Representative District.) additional section to report from committee on miscellaneous corpo rations in reference to warehouses, offeredd by.......................... 1636 amendment of, to report from com mittee on printing and binding in reference to index to debates, etc..1865 amendment of, to resolution of Mr. Snyder in reifrence to payment of temporary employes of convention 92 amendment of, to resolution of Mr. Snyder in reference to removal of convention to Chicago............. 322 amendment of, to section 6 of report from committee on counties........1339 amendment of, to section 6 of report from committee on legislative de partment.......................... 721 amendment of, to section 4 of report from committee on miscellaneous corporations in reference to ware houses, as amended in committee of the whole...................... 1700 amendment of, to section 6 of report from committee on municipal cor porations......................... 1675 amendment of, to substitute of Mr. Wells to resolution of Mr. Hanna in reference to election of delegate to convention in place of Hon. B. W. Henry, resigned...............!032 appointed member of committee on internal improvements............ 75 appointed member of committee on public account5 and expenditures. 75 F, 126 INDEX. WHOLE, COMMITTEE OF-Continued. debate in convention on report from committee on schedule, as amended in........................ 1819 to 1832 debate in convention on report from committee on state, county and municipal indebtedness, as mend ed in........................ 1256 to 1260 memorial in reference to Cook coun ty judiciary, referred to....... ..... 1077 proposed amendments to judiciary articles referred to................. 1130 resolution of Mr. Pillsbury in refer ence to the consideration of reports from committees in....... 490 resolution of Mr. Wheaton in 'ei;e,n, 'e to abolishment of................... 1367 resolution of Mr. Wheaton in refer ence to limitation of debate in..... 613 WIDOWS AND ORPIIANS resolution of instruction of Mr. Bayne to committee on miscellane ous subjects, in reference to........ 510 WEIGHTMAN, JAMES elected postmaster of convention.... 53 WILL COUNTY petition in reference to circuit court of................................. 235 WILSON, J. IET.-(a Deiegate from the Eighth Representative District.) appointed member of committee on congressional apportionment.... 7-S appointed member of committee on finance............................ 75 appointed member of committee on roads and internal navigation...... 75 WINES, REV. MR. prayer offered by.......... 235, 1416, 1787 WITNESSES resolution of Mr. Wall to amend con stitution in reference to non-dis qualification of on account of re ligious belief...................... 176 WOMEN petition in reference to rights of.... 826 4r i WORD " OFFICE I' resolution of instruction ofmr. Whea ton to committee on miscellaneous subjects in reference to the con r,truction of....................... 782 WORDING OF AMENDMENTS TO CON STITUTION resolution of Mr. Wait in reference to..........................i..... 98 WHOLE, CO,-DMITTEE OF debate in, on article in reference to municipal subscriptions to'capital stock of private corporations...... 15-)34 to 1242 debate in, on report from committee on banks and currency....1618 to 1685 debate in, on report from committees on bill of rights and miscellaneous subjects in reference to'prga ble 231 276 to 278 -................................... /2 YEAS AND NAYS-Continued. on adoption of amendment of Mr. rDement to section 3 of report from committee on legislative depart rment, as amended in committee of the whole.......................... 940 on adoption of amendment of Mr. English to section 30 of report from committee on legislative de partment, as amended in committee of the whole........ oe...... 959 on adoption of amendment of Mr. Fox to section 11 of report from committee on legislative depart ment, as amended in committee of the whole...9...................... 943 on adoption of amendment of Mr. Neece to additional section offered by Mr. Wall to report from commit tee on legislature, as amended in committee of the whole........... 938 on adoption of amendment of Mr.. Robinson to section 3 of report from committee on legislative de partment, as'amended in commit tee of the wh, le................... 940 on adoption of amendment of Mr. Wagner to section 18 of report from committee on legislative de partment, as amended in commit tee of the whole..951 4 e o i on adoption of portion of report from committees ou canal and ca rnal lands and on internal improve ments, in reference to the sale or lease of Illinois and Michigan ca on adoption of report from commit tees on canal and canal lands and on internal improvements, in refer oence to appropriations by general assembly in aid of railroads or ca nals................................ 486:m, on adoption of the report Irom com mittees on canal and canal lands and on internal improvements in reference to power of general as sembly to loan the credit of the c i o a adc or canals. 486 on adopon n of repor committee of the whole, on report from com mittee on state, county and munl cipal indebtedness, as amended in convention........................ 1260 on adoption of resolution of inquiry of Mr. Anthony to Auditor of State, in reference to railroads... 915 on adoption of resolution of Mr. Washburn, in reference to recess of convention........................ 1077 ,on adoption of sections 7 and 44 of report from committee on legisla tive department, as amended ind committee of the whole....... 942, 970 on adoption of section 1 of report from committee on military affairs. 864 on adoption of substitute of Mr. Haines, of Lake, to additional sec tion offered by Mr. Wall, to report from committee on legislative detee n rght f sffrae, s amnd-partment, as amended in conii-scin4 frpr rmcmmited in ommitte of he whoe, astee of the whole...........938: teo uiiry saeddi amended by Mr. Hay. 1298 on adoption of substitute to section7 comte7ftewoe19 on addtiona secton ofered y Mr.of report froma committee on legis-onaedetoMrCostorpi Spriger o rportfron coinitnelive department, as amended in fo omte npitn n on reenue,as aendedin comit-committee of the whole.......928 id gireirnetcntiu teeof he hol -...........'.112 on amendment of Mr. Allen, of Alex- to n drs C14 011 dd ionl setios ofere byMr.ander, to amendment of Mr. Ben- o mnmn fM rs osc Tinche to reort fom comitteejamin, to section 4 of report from t(n n fieotfo umt on juiciar, asamendd in oin-comnittee on cojunties, as amendedteoncute a aeddi mittee of the whole. 1497 in committee of the whtile. 13 o te fl whl. 1521,.. 1531 on adi'iona setion asamened,of- on amendment of Mr. Allen of Craw- o mnmn fM umnst fered y Mr. agner o repot fromford, to article in reference to oath scin1 fIeotfo omt conimitee oncountis, as mendedof office.................1387 teo uiir saeddi in comitteeof th whol - 1556 on amendment of Mir. Allen, of Craw- comte ftowoe14 011 ad ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~~bditoua section ofrdbMrfodtsetol4 of report fromonaedmntoMrFxtsusi Wheato to reort fom comitteecommittee on railroad corporations,tueoMi ediktoadtoa on juiciay, asamened incom-as amended in committee of the scint eotfo omte mittee of the wbole - 1496 whole.1.16. on.right.of.sufi.age.as.amended6i on aopton f aditinalsecionof- on amendinent of Mr..Anderson to cmiteo h hl,ofrdb -fere by r. Yndevnterto rportreport from committee on printing 112 M.Sdwc.3( fro comiteeon iltar afais. 65 on amendment of Mr. Anthony to onaedeto:M.Gml.a on aoptin ofaddtionl setionof-substitute of Mr. Cameron to sec-amdetoscon4oreotfo fered y Mr. all t repor fromtion 2 of report from committee on comte:ncuti,a mne commitee on egisltive dpart-miscellaneous subjects, in reference i omte ftewoe13 ment as mendd i comitte ofto homestead exemptions, asonaedetoMrGodltose the whsile.938 ~~amended in committee of the to frpr rmcmiteo on adopton of a'indmen of Mr.whole.1....revenue,.as.amended.in.committe Beujain t secton 4 of rport on amendment of Mr. Archer to sec- ftewoe19 from ommitee onle~isativede-lion 13 of report from committeeonaedetoMrfamsoCok partmut, a ameded i commtteeon judiciary, as amended in corn- t eodadtoa etoeo of the whole-970- mittee of the whole -.1417 tdb omte nfnne YEAS AND NAYS on additional section offered by Mr. AGlen, of Crawford, to report from committee on railroad corporations as amended in committee of the whole.........................1722 on additional section offered by Mr. Browning to report from commit tee on miscellaneous subjects, in reference to divorce...............169 2 on additional article offered by Mr. Buxton, in reference to the sepa rate submission of the questson of female suffrage....................1309 on additional section offered by Mr. Eldredge, to report from commit tee on municipal corporations, as amended in committee of the whole............................. 1725 on additional section offered by Mr. McCoy to report from committee on right of suffrage, as amended in committee of the whole...........1298 on additional section offered by Mr. Sedgwick to report from commit tee on right of suffrage, as amend ed in committee of the whole, as amended by Mr. Hay..............1298 on additional section offered by Mr. Springer to report from commnittee on revenue, as amended in commit tee of the whole.................. 16 1 2 on add tional sections offered by Mr. Tincher to report from committee on judiciary, as amended in coin mittee of the whote..............1497 on additional section, as amended, of fered by Mr. Wagner to report from committee on counties, as amended in committee of the whole.........1556 on additionial section offered by Mr. Wheaton to report from committee On judiciary, as amended in com mittee of the whole...............1496 on adoption of additional section of fered by Mr. Vandeventer to report from committee on military affairs. 865 on adoption of additional section of fered by Mr. Wall to report from committee on legislative depart ment, as amended in committee of the whole......................... 938 on adoption of amendment of Mr. Benjamin to section 44 of report from committee on legislative de partment, as amended in committee of the whole...................... .' I I i INDEX, 127 WRIGHT, 0. H.-Continued. appointed member of committee on roads and internal navigation...... 75 leave of absence granted to.. 155, 253, 864 petition in reference to marouic in scriptions on public buildings, etc., submitted by...................... 365 remarks of, in d'ebate in convention on report.fron-i committee on right .of suffrage, as amended in commit tee of thp whole.................. 1291 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on counties....... 1339, 1355 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on legislative depart ment......................... 519, 527 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on miscellaneous corpo rations............................ 1668 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on miscellaneous corpo rations, in reference to warehousesl636 remarks of, in debate on report from committee on state,, county and mu nicipal indebtedness............... 846 remarks of, on resolution to employ temporary enrolling clerk......... 138 remarks of, on resolution of Mr. Church in reference to considera tion (,)f reports of committees..... 727 resolution in reference to (ifficial fees 367 resolution ill reference to pay of jani torr................................ 627 resolution in reference to place of holding supreme court............ 100 resolution in reference to suffrage.... 71 reso]4t!ou in rference to ventilation of hall............................. 1210 resolution to am, —nd constitution in 1. reference to term of Goveri3or..... 194 resolution to employ temporary en rolling clerk...................... 138 resolution to furnish elective officers of convention wish newspapers.... 127 YEAS AND NAYS-Continved. on amendment of Mr. Archer to sub stitute of Mr. Medill to section 1 of report from committee on future amendments, as aliended in com mittee of the whole............... 1592 on amendment of Mr. Bayne to sec tion 1 of report from committee on bill of rights...1559 ............ on amendment' Benjamin to report from committee on mines and mineral in,,erests, in reference to the protection of the lives of miners............................ 276 on amendment of Mr. Beyijamin to section 4 of report from commit tee on counties, as amended in committee of the whole...... 1606, 1531 on amendment of Mr. Benjamin to - section 13 of report from commit tee on judiciary, as amended in committee of the whole......... 1411 1423, 1446 on amendment of Mr. Browning to substitute of Mr. Allen, of Alexan der, to resolution of Mr. Church in reference to form of oath of office. 43 on amendment of Mr, Browning to substitute of Mr. Hays to section 40 )f report from cot-n-.nittee on judiciary as amendud in committee of the whole..................... 1486 on amendment of Mr. Browning to substitute of Mr. Medill to section I of report froiu c(,mmittee on future amendments, as amended in committee of the whole........... 1594 on amendment of Mr. Buxton to section 4 of report from committee on counties, as amended in cumiiiit tee of the whole................... 1506 on amendment of Mr. Buxton, to section 9 of report from commit tee on schedule, as "-mended in com rnitt;ee of the whole............... 1825 on amendment of Mr. Buxton to substitute of'Mr. Medill to section 1 of report from committee on fu ture aineddments, as amended in committee of the whole........... 1593 on amen d as amended by Mr. Wlieaton't( section 7 of report from committee on counties, as amended in committee of tlie whole...................... 1553 on amendment of Mr. Church to see tio-n 13 of report from committee on judiciary, as amended in com-, .itte ot the whole............... 1417 on amendment of Mr. C(,dy to section 4 of report from committee on reve inue, as amended in COnlIniLee of the whole................ 1606 on aluendinent of' Mr, C(;d'y'i'S'U'sti tute of Afi-. An thonv to section 41 of report fro m committee on judi ciary as.4m(,-b ded in committee of the whole..:................... k2) 1490 on amendi-nen., of Mr. C')olbaugli to-, section 42 of report from commit tee o n.udiciar as amended in 18 INDEX. YEAS'AND NAYS-Continued. on amendment of Mr. Haines, of Cook, to section 3 of report from committee on railroad corpora t i ons, as amended in committee of the whole......................... 1720 on amendment of Mr. Haines, of Lake, t o section 3 of report from committee on bill of rights........ 1566 on amendment of Mr. Hanna to sec tion 2 of report fromcommittee on ,state, county and municipal indebt edness, as amended in committee of the whole......................... 1259 on amendment of Mr. Hay to amend ment of Mr. Wall to section 13 of report from committee on judicia ry, as amended in committee of the whole.............................. 1425 on amendment ot Mr. Hay to section 36 of report from committee on ju diciary, as amended in committee of the whole...................... 1480 on amendment of Mr. Hay to section 2 of report from committee on state, county and'municipal indebt edness, as amended in committee of the whole...................... 1258 on amendment of Mr. Hayes, as amended by Mr. Turner, to section 6 of report from committee on counties, as amended in committee of the whole...................... 1516 on amendment of Mr. Hayes to sec tion 3 of report from committee on railroad corporations, as amended in committee of the whole......... 1720 on amendment of Mr. King to sub stitute of Mr. Wells to report from committee on printing and binding in reference to printing address and constitution....................... 1844 on amendment of Mr. McDowell to the amendment of Mr. Ross to sec tion 15 of report from committee on bill of rizhts...................... 1577 on amendment of Mr. McDowell to section 16 of report from committee on bill of rights.................. 1586 on amendment of Mr. Parks, as amen ded by Mr. Church, to section 32 of report from committee on judicia ry, as amended in committee of the whole............................. 1475 on amendment of Mr. Peirce to sub stitute of Mr. Browning to section 7 of report from committee on ju diciary, as amended in committee of the whole...................... 1433 on amendment of Mr. Ross to resolu tion of Mr. Hay, in reference to election of supreme co urt judges... 1799 on amendment of Mr. Scholfield to section 6 of report from committee on counties, as amended in com mittee of the whole..............158 on amendment of Mr. Scho~lfield to section 13 of resort from commit tee on j udiciary, as amended in com mittee of the whole........ 1412 on amendment of Mr. Sharp to section 2 of report from commnittee on state, county and municipal in debtedness, as amended in commit. tee of the whole.................258 on amendment of Mr. Skinner to section 16 of report from, commit tee on bill of rights..............1586 on amendment of Mr. Snyder to amendment of Mr. Haines, of Lake, to section 3 of report from committee on bill of rights...(2)156B on amendment of M~r. Snyder to sec tion 5 of report from committee on counties, as amended in committee of the whole,............1542 on amendment of Mr. Springer to Jection 16 of report from commit tee on judiciary, as amended in committee of the whole.....................1462 on amendment of Mr. Springer to sections 5 and 6 of report from committee on revenue, as amended in committee of the w hole.... *1607,108 on amendment of Mr. Tinchef, to section 1 of report fr~om committee on right of suffrage, as armeadead in committee of the whole...........a, b193 on amendment of Mr. Truesdale to substitue to section 7 of report from committee on legislative de partment, as amended in committee o'f the whole......................928 on amendment of Mr. Turner to amendment of Mr. Hayes to sec tion 6 of report from committee on counties, as amended in committee of the whole...................... 1515 on amendment of Mr. Turner to sec tions 1 and 4 of l eport from com mittee on counties, as amended in committee of the whole...... 1521, 1506 on amendment of Mr. Underwood to section 15 of report from commit tee oni bill of rights...............1 584 on amendment of Mr. Under wood to section 4 of report from c ommittee on counties, as amended in committee of the whole.........1506 on amendment of Mr. Underwood to substitute of Mr. King to section 18 of report from ct.mmittee on ju diciary, as amended in committee of the whole......................1465 on amendment of Mr. Vandeventer to section 1 of report from com mittee on right of suffrage, as amended in committee of the whole.....................1281oo on amendment of Mr. Wall to section 9 of report from committee on bill of rights......................1573 on amendment of Mr. Washburn to section 3 of report from committee on banks and currency, as amended in committee of the whole........1687 on amendment of Mr. Washburn to section 6 of report from committee on counties, as amended in commit tee of the whole.................. 1509 on amendment of Mr. Wells to sec tions 4 and 15 of report from com mittee on bill of rights......1567, 1581 on amendment of Mr. Wendling to section 21 of report from commit tee on executive, as amended in committee of the whole........... 1377 on amendment of Mr. Wheaton to -rtsetion 5 of redort from committee on counties, as amended in com mittee of the whole................... 1508 on amendment of Mr. Wheaton to section 4 of report from committee on railroad corporations, as amend ed in committee of the whole.....1715 on amendment of Mr. Whiting to sec tion 2 of report from committee on i revenue, as amended in committee of the whole...................... 1.600 on amendment of committee of the whole, to submit article on suffrage to separate vote...................1821 on concurrence with action of com mittee of the whole, in reference to section 22 of report from committee on executive......................1371 on concurrence with action of com mittee of the whole, in striking out section 6 of report from committee on banks and currency.........1685i on concurrence with action of corn- h mittee of the whole, in striking out o sections 4 and 6 ot report from com mittee on education.........1746, 1747 M on concurrence with action of the committee of the whole, in striking e out section 10 of report from com mittee on revenue.................1603 on concurrence with amendment of section 8 of report from committee on schedule, offered in committee of the whole..................1819 on concurrence with section 5 of re port from committee on counties, as amended in committee of the whole... -—.1508 t n0 on enrolling last clause of section 11 of article on corporations, as re poprted by committee on revision and adjustment....................1838 on enrolling proposition of Mr. Browning in reference to railroad and municipal indebtedness of Quincy, Ill., as amended by Mr. Buxton.............................1868 on enrolling sections 8, 12 and 15 of article on corporations, as reported by committee on revision and ad adjustment........,.....,...1838, 1839 YEAS AND NAYS-Continued. on enrolling section 10 of article on counties, as reported by committee o n revision an d adjustment........ 18S3 on enrolling sections 10,12, 26 and 24 of schedule, as reported by com mittee on revision and adjustment. 1855 1858, 1852 on enrolling section in schedule rela ting to canals, as reported by com mittee on revisi o n and adjustment.1853 on first additional section, offered by Mr. Church, to report from com mnittee on railroad corporations, as amended in committee of the whole............................. 171' on first paragraph of section 22 of \ report from committee on execu tive, as amended in committee of the whole......................... 1385 on first resolution of reDort from com mittee on printing and binding, in reference to publication of consti tution........................... 1706 on fourth amendment to section 1 of report from committee on miscel laneous subjects, in reference to homestead exemption, as a-mended in committee of the whole......... 1689 on motion to lay on table resolution of Mr. Anthony in reference to state and national government.... 100 on motion to lay on table resolution of Mr. Bromwell, in reference to furnishing newspapers to members of convention..................... 132 on motion to lay on the table resolu tion of Mr. Cary, in reference to employment of engrossing clerk... 77 on motion to lay on table resolution of Mr. Turner in reference to en. grossing clerk..................... 78 on motion to lay on the table resolu tion of Mr. Wall in reference to rat ification of amendments to consti tution............................ 3e on motion to lay on tab le resolUtion of inquiry of Mr. Dement to Secre tary of State in reference to expen ses of two last sessions of general assembly.......................... 91 on motion to refer resolution of in quiry of Mr. Fox to Auditor of State in reference to expenses of general assembly since 1862, and of constitutional convention of 1862.. 81 on motion to strike out resolution of Mr. Haines, of Lake, in reference to recess of convention, and insert substitute of Mr. Ross............. 867 on motion of Mr. Abbott to reconsid er section 10 of report from com mittee on revenue, as amended in committee of the whole........... 1618 on motion of Mr. Allen, of Alexander — to lay on table the amendment of MrF. Craig to section 4 of report from committee on counties, as amended in committee of the whole.............................1~33 on motion of Mr. Allen, of Alexan der, to lay on table the motion of Mfr. Whiting to instruct committee on revision and adjustment in refer ence to article on canal and canal lands.................18X33 o~ motion of Mr. Allen, of Alex>an-'::~::i~ der, to lay on the table section 44 of report from committee on legis. lative department, as amended in committee of the whole, and the amendmlent of Mir. Benjamin there-~ to,................................ 969 on motion of Mr. Allen, of Crawford, to lay on table the additional sec tion offered by Mr. Tincherto report from committee on bill of rights...1E88 on motion of Mr. Allen, of Crawford, to lay on table the amendment of Mr. Hayes to section 16 of report from committee on judiciary, as amended in committee of the whole.............................. 1946 on motion of Mr. Allen, of Crawford, to lay on table the amendment of Mr. Underwood to section 15 of re port freom committee on bill of righ~t~........,.........1* 58'a t 128 INDEX. YEAS AND NAYS —Continued. INDEX. 129 YEAS AND NAYS-Continuea. on motion of Mr. Allen, of Crawford, to lay on table motion of Mr. itHaines, of Lake, to r econsider the adoption of resolution of Mr. Wells in refer ence to election of delegate to conv entio n in place of Hon. Wm. H. Patterson, deceased....... 208 on motion of Mr. Allen, of Crawford, to lay o n the table resolution of Mi r. Sedgwick in reference to fur nishing newspapers to members of convention.... A r t yn................... 169 on motion of Mr. A llen, of Cr awford, to lay on table the resolution of M r. Spri nger, requesting certain information from Supe rintendent of Public Instruction................. 1393 on motion of Mr. A llen, of Crawford, to lay on the table resolution of Mr. Vandeventer in ereference to morn ing session of convention.......... 703 on motion of Mr. Allen, of Crawford, to strike out section 8 of report from committee on counties, as amended in committee of the whole.............................15 20 on motion of Mr. Allen, of Crawford, to strike out section 4 of report from committee on executive, as amended in committee of the whole.............................13 73 on motion of Mr. Allen, of Crawford, to strike out section 8 of the report from committee on revenue, as amended in committee of the whole............................. 1610 on motion of Mr. Anderson for pre vious question upon the adoption of section 1 of report from commit tee on right of suffrage, as amend ed in committee of the whole...... 1294 on motion of Mr. Anderson to ad journ.............................. 1550 on motion of Mr. Anderson to lay on the table resolution of Mr. Turner in reference to furnishing manuals to convention................... 137 on motion of Mr. Anderson to lay on the table resolution of Mr. Turner in reference to granting leave of ab sence.............................. 832 on motion of Mr. Anthony to lay on table the additional section offered by Mr. Browning to'report from committee on miscellaneous sub jects in reference to divorce........ 1692 on motion of Mr. Anthony to lav on table the amendment of Mr. Cody to section 5 of report from commit tee on counties, as amended in com mittee of the whole................ 1508 on motion of Mr. Anthony to lay on table the amendment of Mr. Cum mings to section 14 of report from committee on bill of rights........ 1574 on motion of Mr. Anthony to lay on table the amendment of Mr. Wash burn to motion of Mr. Anthony in reference to communication from Auditor of Public Accounts in re gard to railroads, ctc................*1526 on motion of Mr. Anthony to lay on table the motion of Mr. Hay to re consider vote on amendment to scC t.ion 30 of report from committee on judiciary, as amended in corn reittee of the whole................ 1473 on motion'of Mr. Anthony to lay on table the motion to reconsider vote adopting amendment of Mr. Benja min to section 44 of report from committee on legislati-ve depart ment, as amended in committee of the whole............,.... 970 on motion of Mr. Anthony to lay on table the resolution of instruction of Mr. Neece to comynittee on revis ion and adjuvstment in reference to section 11 of judiciary article,...................1763 on motion of Mr. Anthony to strike out section 2 of report from com mnit,tee on miscellaneous corpora tio-ns in reference to warehouses, as amended in committee of the whole..........................1700 on motion of Mr. Archer to lay on table the amnendments of Mr. Whiting and Mr. Hay to section 2 of report from committee on future amendments, as amended in com mittee of the whole,................ 1595' YEAS AND NAYS-Continved. on motion of Mr. Cary to lay on table the amendment of Mr. Haines, of Cook, to section 5 of report from commnittee on judiciary, as amended in committee of the whole.........1490 on motion of Mr. Cary to lay on table the - amendment of Mr. flanna to section 21 of report from commit tee on executive, as amended in committee of the whole.........1378 on motion of Mr. Cary to lay on table the amendment of Mr. McDowell to section 15 of report from com mittee on bill of rights............1581 on motion of Mr. Cary to lay on table the proposition of Mr. Browning in reference to 1ailroad and municipal indebtedness of Quincy, and all amendments thereto...............1868 on motion of Mr. Cary to lay on table resolution of Mr. Washburn in ref erence to separate schools for white and colored children..............703 on motion of Mr. Cary to lay on table resolution of Mr. Wells to purchase 200 copies of manual.............. 146 on motion of Mr. Cary to lay on table the substitute of Mr. Allen, of Al exander, to proposition of Mr. Browning, in reference to railroad and Tnunicipal indebtedness of Quincy, Ill....................... 1868 on motion of Mr. Cary to lay on table substitute of Mr. Washburn to re port from committee on right of suff,age, as amended in committee of the whole..............1282 on motion of Mr. Cary to lay on table the substitute of Mr. Wells to section 13 of report from com mittee on judiciary, as amended in committee of the whole...........1443 on motion of Mr. Cary to reconsider order of previous question......... 930 on motion of Mr. Cary to reconsider vote adopting resolution of Mr. Peirce, allowing additional pay to secretaries of convention..........1868 on motion of Mr. Cars to roonsider vote, on araendiiSei oi Mr. H,iines of Cook, to section 13 of report fromn committee on judiciary, as amended in committee of the whole.............................1422 on motion of Mr. Cary to reconsider vote on fourth amendment to sec tion 5 of report firom committee on judiciary, as amended in commit tee -of the whole...................1431 on motion of Mr. Cary to refer to committee on federal relations, additional section offered by Mr. Ross to report from committee on bill of rights.....................1587 on motion of Mr. Church for call of convention....................... 868 on motion of Mr. Church to lay on table amendment of Mr. McDowell to section 2 of report from commit tee on military affairs............. 64 on motion of Mr. Church to refer communication from Secretary of State in refereuce to stationery fur nished to convention, to select com mittee....................1819 on motion of Mr. Church to strike out the last clause of section 3 of article on bill of rights, as reported by committee on revision and ad j ustment. 1777 on m o ti on of Mr. Cody to adjourn..1009 on motion of Mr. Cody, in regard to filing irs t blank of substitute of Mr. Rtoss to resolution of Mr. Haines, of Lake, in reference-to recess of convention............... 872 on motion of Mr. Cody to lay on table the amendment of Mr. An thony to section 7 of report from committee on counties, as amend ed in committee of the whole...... 155S on motion of Mr. Coolbaugh to lay on table the motion of Mr. Spring er, in reference to card of Supt. of Public Instruction...............,1390 on maotiont of Mr. Coolbaugh to refer -report from commnittee on legisla tive department, as amended in committee of the whole, to cobm mittee on revision and adjustment. 972 on motion of Mr. Cary to lay on table additional section offered by Mr. Skinner, as amended by himself, to report from committee on counties, as amended in committee of the ltwhole......................... 1557 INDEX. 120 YE 130~~ INj)I — X. YEAS AiND NAYS-Continued. on l o tion of Mr. Cross for previous question...........................1755 on motion of Mr. Cross to adjourn...1825 on motion of Mr. Cross to lay on ta ble the additional section offered by Mr. Gamble to report frism corn meittee on revenue, as amended in committee of the whole......... 1616 on motion of Mr. Cross to reconsider amendment to section 5 of report from committee on counties, as adopted in committee ot the whole............................. 1537 on motion of Mr. Cros-s to refer to committee on ed ucation substi tute of Mr. Brownin. to substitute of Mr. Wagner to additional sec tion offered by Mr. Bayne to report fromn committee on education, as amended in committee of the whole............................. 1761 on motion of Mr. Cross to suspend five-minute rule, temporarily...... 1634 on motion of Mr. Cummings to lay on table additional section offered by Mr. Wall, to report from com mottree on legislative department as amended in committee of the whole............................. 932 on motion of Mr. Cumming,s to lay on table the amendment of Mr. Dement to section 5 of report from cormnittee on judiciary, as amend ed in committee of the whole...... 1428 on motion of Mr. Currmings to lay on table the amendment of Mr. Wall to section 5 of report from committee on judiciary, as amend ed il committee of the whole..... 1403 on motion of Mr. Cummings to lay on table the motion of Mr. Cary to strike out section 8 of report from committee on schedule, as amend ed in committee of the whole......1823 on motion of Mr. Cummings to lay on table the resolution of instrutc tion of Mr. Wall to committee on revision, in reference to the elec tion of masters in chancery....... 1790 on motion of Mr. Cutmmings to strike out section 30 of report from committee on legislative depart ment, as amended in committee of the whole....................., 953 on motion of Mr. Demenit to lay on table the addition section offered by Mr. Scholfield, to report from committee on counties, as amend ed in committee of the whole...... 1555 on motion of Mr. English, in refer,ence to pay of pages of convention. 998 on motion of Mr. English, to adjourn. 964 on motion of Mr. English to lay on table the additional section offered by Mr. Whiting to report from committee on railroad corpora tions, as amended in committee of the whole......................... 1721 on motion of Mr. English to lay on table the amendment of Mr. Ross to Ssectionl 6 of report from c~Jm~nit tee own counties, as ameneded in committee of the whole...............5.17 on motion of Mr. English to lay on table resolution of Mr. Cummings -in reference to oath to be taken by members of convention........,.,.. 590 on motion of Mr. Fo)x to adjourn................ 1371 on motion of Mr. Fox to lay on table the additional section offered by Mr. Wagner to report from com mittee on counties, as amended inl committee of the whole.-...................1556 on motion of Mr. Fox to lay on table the amendments of Mr. Hart and Mr. (Cummingrs to section 27 of re port from committee on j udiciary, as amended in committee of the wvhole..,*....................... 1470 on motion of Mr. Fox to lay o~n table portion of amendment of Mr. Ben jamin to section 4 of report fr-om committee on counties, as amended in committee of the- whol e.....1530 on motion of Mr. Fo'e to lay on tabble the resolution of inquiry of Mr. -Cary as) State Secretary, Treasurer and Auditor in refelrenec to ex penses of 25th and 26th general as ~~mblies..?s*...............'.... 429 on motion of Mr. Fox to lay on table the substitute of Mr. Sedgwick to additional section to rep,)rt from committee on right of suffrage, as amended in committee of the bv hole, offered by Mr. Sedgwick.....1301 on motion of Mr. Fox to reconsider vote ordering previous question.'..1550 on motion of Mr. Fox to strike out section 28 of report from committee on judiciary as amended in commit tee of the whole...................1472 on motion of Mr. Good-ll to lay on table the additional section offere(e by Mr. Skinner to report from com mittee on counties, as amended in committee of the whole............1556 on motion of Mr. Goodell to recon sider vote adopting section 6 of re port from committee on revenue...16-7 o on motion of Mr. Goodhue to ad journ.............................. 868 on motion of Mr. Goodhue to lay on table the amendment of Mr. An thony to section 6 of report fromc committee on counties, as amend ed in committee of the whole......1518 on motion of Mr. Goodhue to lay on table the amendment of Mr. De ment to section 16 of report from committee on judiciary, as amend ed in committee of the whole......1462 on mnotion of Mr. Goodhue to lay on table the amendment of Mr. Hayes to section 6 of report from commit tee on counties, as amended in committee of the wlhble........... 1M510 on mnotion of Mr. Goodhue to lay on. the table the resolution of Mr. Craig to furnish members of convention with daily papers................. 182 on motion of Mr. Goodhue to lay on table the substitute of Mr. Buxton to section 9 of report from commit tee on schedule, as amended in committee of the whole........... 1826 H on motion of Mr. Haines, of Cook, to lay on table additional section of fered by Mr. Anderson to report from committee on right of suffrage, on. o of M..Cmmended in committee of the whole............................. 1298 on motion of Mr. Haines, of Cook, to lay on table amendment of Mr. tEnglish to section I of report from committee on right of suffrage, as amended in committee of the whole...........................1293 on motion of Mr. Haines of Cook, to strike out section 1 of report from committee on municipal corpora tions, as amended in committee of the whole.........................1724 on motion of Mr. Haines, of Lake, for previous question on resolution of Mr. Wendliug in reference to rati fication of amendments to federal constitution...................... 165 on motion of Mr. Haines, of Lake, to instruct committee on federal rela tions to report resolution offered to setion of rport rom cmmit-by himsnif in reference to ratifica-wihdiyppr.8 tee on ountie as ameded intion of 15th amendment as a suh-on.mtoofM.Rctosrkou committee of he whole. 1517 stitute foi resolution offered by Mr.seto 9oreotfocomt on moton of r. Eugish tolay onWendling, in reference to ratifica-teonjdcay saeddi table esoluton ofMr. Cumingstion of amendments to federal con-comteoftewoe48 in reerenc to oth tohe taen bystitution.........................166 onmtoofM.Rbnotoron members ~~~~~~~ofcneto. 9 On motion of Mr. Hauna to lay on the adrvt dpigaedeto on mtionof r. Fx t adjurn...d71 table the amendment of Mr. Benja-MrSndrtseto5ofrpr on mot~~~~~~~~ion oMrFxtolyotalmm to section 44 of report from fo omte ncute,a the aditiona sectin offeed by ommittee on legislative depart-amne incmiteo th Mr. Waner t repor fromcorn-ment, as amended in committee of whoe. 9 4 mitteeon couties, s amened inthe whole....................96 nmto fM..R.at.ly.ntal committeeof the wole. 1556 on motion of Mr. Hanna to lay on ta-tharilonjdcay19 on mtionof r. Fx tolayon tbleble amendment of Mr. Dement toonmtoofM.Rstolyota the amndmens of r. Hat andamendment of Mr. Cody to sectionbnthmoinoMrAnhn,i Mr. Cummings to section 27 of re- f port fiomn committee on rightreeectocmuiainfo port rom cmmitee onjudicary,of suffrage, as amended in commit-Auiooft'liAconsiras amendedin commitee of thetee of the whole..................1293 gr oriras t. 5 whole..................14~0 on motion of Mr. Hanna to refer res-onmtoofM.Rstolyotal 3 portio of amndmen of Mr Ben-to Auditor of State, in reference toteonreneasaeddicojaminto setion4 of eportfromrailroads, to committee on judici- mte ftewoe......6 commitee on ountie, as aendedary.............................914 o oino r ost ecmi in comitteeof th whol. 1530 on motion of Mr. Hay to lay on tablereotocomteonjdcayt on mtionof r. Fx tolayon tblethe amendment of Mr. Peirce to cmiteo uiir,wt n the reslution f inqmr of Mr.first additional section reported by srcin osrk u eto 119 Cary o Stae Secetary Treaurercommittee on finance........1786 o oino r ost ecmi and Auitor n refeence o cx- on mo~tion of Mr. Hay to lay on tableseto15oreotfocomte pense of 2th an 26thgenerl as-the first additional section reportedonblofrgttocmiteo ~~n~~bli~~es.4~~~ by committee on finance......1786bilorits19 y I i i i I I INDEX. 130 YEAS AND NAYS-Continued. YEAS AND NAYS-Continued. on motion of Mr. Hay to reconsider vote ordering main question....... 15',7 on MOTIOD of Mr. Hay to strike out Be tion 26 of report from commit tee on judiciary, a,3 amended in committee of the, whole........... 1467 on motion of Mr. Hay to strike out section 4 of report from committee on railroad corporations, as amend ed in committee of the whole...... 1715 on motion of Mr. Hayes to lay on table amendment. of Mr. Buxton to. section 18 of report from commit tee on legislative department, as amended in committee of the whole................. I............ 951 on motion of Mr. Hayes to strike out section 40 of report from committee on judiciary, its amended in com mittee of the whole............... 1486 on motion of Mr. King to strike out section l of report from commit tee on judiciary, as amended in committee of the whole........... 1465 on motion of Mr. McCoy to postpone consideration of report from com mitteer, on cqnal and canal lands, and internal improvements........ 310 on motion of Mr. McCoy to postpone special order...................... 833 on motion of Mr. McCoy to strike out line 11 of section 11 of report, from committee on scht-dule, as amended in committee of the whole........ 1829 on motion of Mr. McDowell to lay on table the motion of Mr. Whiting in reference to consideration of report from committee on canal and canal lands, in regard to certain modifica tio'ns of article on canal........... 1761 on motion of Mr. Merriam to lay on table motion of Mr. Cary to recon sider vote on amen(linent of Mr. Haines, of Cook, to secton 13 of report from committee on judi ciary, as amended in committee of, the whole.-........................ 1422 on motion of Mr. Merriam to lay on table motion of Mr. Haines, of Cook, to reconsider section 2 of re port from committee on judiciary, as amended in committee of the whole............................. 1455 on motion of Mr. Merriam to lay on table motion of Mr. Ross in refer ence to separate submission of judi cial article........................ 1813 on motion of Mr. Moore to reconsider section 1 of report from committee on e e'utive. as amended in com mittee of the whole........ on motion of Mr. Neece to strike out sections 11 and 15 of report from committee on judiciary, as amend ed in committee of the whole.....1434 1455,1458 on motion of Mr. Perley to lay on lid~ ~~~~~JDX.. YEAS AND NAYS-ContinueJ. on motion of Mr. Turner to strike out section 6 of report from com mittee on counties, as amended in committee of the whole........... 1547 on motion of Mr. Underwood in re gard to filling first blank of substi tute of Mr. Ross to resolution of Mr. Haines, of Lake, in reference to recess of convention..... 872 on motion of Mr. Underwood to lay on table the amendment of Mr. Medill to section 6 of report from committee on counties, as amend ed in committee of the whole......1518 on motion of Mr. Underwood to strike out last clause of section 5 of report from committee on revenue, as amended in committee of the whole............................. 1775 on motion of Mr. Vandeventer for previous question................. 1546 on motion of Mr. Vandeventer to lay on table the amendment of Mr. An derson to section 32 of report from committee on judiciary, as amend ed in committee of the whole...... 1475 onmotion of Mr. Vandeventer to lay on table the amendment of Mr. Springer to section 16 of report from committee on judiciary, as amended in committee of the whole............................. 1461 on motion of Mr. Vandeventer to lay on table the amendment of Mr. Springer to section 6 of report from committee on revenue, as amended in committee of the whole.........1607 on motion of Mr. Vandeventer to lay on table the amendment of Mr. Wells to section 5 of report from committee on counties, as amended in committee of the whole......... 1539 on motion of Mr. Vandeventer to lay on table the motion of Mr. McCoy to reconsider section 1 of report from committee on right of suf frage, as amended in committee of to m ohol..........................1296 on motion of Mr.- fra[id, -t-.0 lay on the table resolution of Mr u oul ler in reference to closing hall on Sunday............ 484 on motion of Mr. Vandeventer to lay on the table resolution of Mr. Sedg wick in reference to furnishing news papers to members of convention.. 169 on motion of Mr. Wagner to lay on table the amendment of Mr. Came ron in reference to section 1 of re port from committee on revenue, s as amended in committee of the whole............................. 1620 on motion of Mr. Wagner to lay on table the amendment of Mr. Church to section 7 of report from commit tee on counties, as amended in committee of the whole...........1553 on motion of Mr. Wagner to lay on I table the motion of Mr. Hayes to in comittee f thewhole. 823 - reconsider vote adopting section 6reeectopitnofjunl on moion o Mr. inche to ly onof report from committee on coun-Jaset.reaigtthtrn tabl theamenmentof M. flmes,ties, as amended in committee oi srpino ora.5 ~f Lake,to secton 12 o reportthe whole............. _1552 onpooiinoMr Brwign fro comitee n bll f rght..573 on motion of M~r. Wagner. to referreeectoriraanmuiia on moion o Mr. inche to ly onsubstitute of Mr. Wells to reportinetdesoQuny16 tablethe mendmnt o Mr. ayesfrom committee on printing andonpooiinoMrCrsinrfr to secion 18of reprt fro corn-binding in reference to printing ad- ec ormvlo onysas. 10 mitte onlegslatve dparment asdress and constitution and theonqetooflynontetberamended i committe of theamendments thereto to committeeoutoofM.Elstaloadi whole..952 ~~~~~~on printing and binding......1845 toa oiso eae omm on moion o Mr. inche to ly on on motion of Mr. Wall to lay on tablebesocoenon13 table aendmentof Mr. c~owellthe original additional section of-onrprfrmcmiteofeea to sctio 1 o reprt fom cmmitfered by Mr. Sedgwick to reportretin..16 tee o eduatio, as mendd infrom committee on right of suf-onrsltoofM.A ton;'r committeeof the wole. 1747 frage, as amended in committee ofamne byM.Rcan Mr on moton of r. Tinher tolay onthe whole.13.....ames.of.Cook,.inreference0t tablethe ubsttute f Mr Wels to on motion of Mr. Wall to lay on table eeto fdlgt ocneto repor fromcommitee o prining - the resolution of Mr, Buxton in ref- i lc fHn m.Ptesn and bndin in eferece t pritingerence to the separate submissiondeesd addres andconsttutio, as mend-of the question of female suffrage..1308 nrslto f r rwigi ed by Mr. King.1844 ~on motion of Mr. Wendling in refer- rfrnet feno esoso on moion o Mr. inche to srikeence to minority report from corn- cneto. out setlo 6 ofrepot fro comit - mittee on federal relations..... 1771 onrsltoofM.Cmrnlmt tee on anks ad currecy, as on motion of Mr. Wendling t~o lay on m pehs19 amended in comittee of thetable the motion of Mr. Springer to o eouino r aeo nrf whole.1q57 ~~~~~~reconsider resolutions of instruc- eec o1t mnmn. 7 on motion of r. Turner tolay on tio]ogr. Moore to Auditor ofonrsltoofM.Cobght table he amedmentof Mr.Cool-State and Treasurers of State Nor-dicniuthprnigopryr baughto sctio 42 f re'-rtfrommal School and Industrial Univer- ofrdi ovnin. commitee on ndiciay, as mend-sity in reference to Superintendent o eouino r nls nrfr Cd in comittee f the wole. 14~ of Public Instruction. 1392. e.e.to.adjurnment i INDEX. 131 TEAS AND NAYS-Continued. on motit)n of Mr. Ross to strike out section 6 of report from committee on revenue, as amended in commit tee of the whole................... 1610 on motion of Air. Sharp to lay on ta ble the additional rection to report from committee on executive, as amended in committee ofthe whole, offered by Mr. Wheaton.......... 1386 on motion of Mr. Sharp to lay on ta. ble the amendment of.Nlr. Anthony to section 13 of report from com mittee on judiciary, as'amended in committee of the whole........... 1424 on motion of Mr. Sharp to lay on ta ble the amendment of Mr. Hay to section 1 of report from committee on right of suffrage, as amended in committee of the whole........... 1284 on motion of Mr. Sharp to lay on ta ble the motion of Mr. Turner to reconsider vote adopting section 1 of report from committee on reve nue, as amended in committee of the whole......................... 1616 on motion of Mr. Sharp to lay on table the resolution of -Mr. Whea ton in reference to abolishment of committee of the whole........... 1368 on motion of Mr. Sharp to refer to committee on finance section 10 of report from committee on revenue, as amended in committee of the whole............................. i 1611 on motion of Mr. Sedgwick instruct ing committee on bill of rights with reference to amendment Ok of Mr. Dement to section 12 of re. port from committee on judiciary, as amended in- committee of the whole............................. 1442 on motion of Mr. Sedgwick in refer ence to striking out section 39 of -report from committee OD legisla tive department, as amended in committee of the whole............ 930 -on motion of Mr. - U. - table the amendmet Fox to substitute of Mr. Sedgwick to ad ditional section to report from com mittee on right of suffrage, as amended in committee, of the whole, offered by Mr. Sedgwick........... 1306 on motion of Mr. Sedgwick to lay on table the proposition of Mr. Brown iDL, in reference to railroad and mnicipal indebtedness of Quincy, III................. wiji. I i........ 1762 on motion of Mr. Bed 0 post pone special order................. 969 on motion of Mr. Sedgwick to recon sider vote striking out section 11 of report from committee on judi ciary, as ameiaded in committee of the whole................ I. on motion of Mr. Tincher in refer ence to section 8 of report from committee on schedule as amended YEAS AND NAYS-Continued. on motion of Mr. Wendlin to lay on table resolution of Mr. laines, of Lake, in reference to recess of con vention, and the amendments thereto........................... 894 on motion of Mr. Wendling to refer to committee on education addi tional section offered by Mr. Bayne to report from committee on educa tion, as amended in committee of the whole......................... 1750 on motion of Mr. Wheaton for call of convention........................ 1824 on motion of Mr. Wheaton to ad journ.............................. 182'1 on motion of Mr. Wheaton to lay on table the substitute of Mr. Wash burn to section 20 of report from committee on schedule, as amended in committee of the whole......... 1829 on motion of Mr. Wheaton to post pone consideration of report from committee of the whole on canal and canal lands and on internal im provements....................... 484 on motion of Mr. Whiting to lay on table the additional section offered by Mr. Anthony t,, committee on schedule, as amended in committee ofthe whole......... 1832, on motion of Mr. Whiting to take from the table the article on canal and canal lands................... 1833 on motion of Mr. Wright to adjourn..1549 on portion of the report from com mittee on printing and binding in reference to printin.ournal, laws, etc., relating to the furnishing of newspa'pers and residents in the state, other than EDglish, with copies of debates and constitution. 256 on portion of report from committee on printinl- and binding in reference to index to debates, etc............ 1865 on portion of the report of the com rnittee on printing and bindinz re latinz to the nuiaber of copi of debates in newspaper form to be furnished to members of conven tion 13S on portion ot i'h 'p'o';C'iihe com mittee on printing and binding re latidg to the,number of daily news. papers to be furnished to members of convention..................... 133 on portion of the report from com mittee on printing and binding, in references to printing of journal, laws,.ete., relat!Dg to the printing of the journal..................... 254 on portion of the report from com mittee on printing and bind!nL,. in reference to printing Of jOUftl, laws, etc.,-relatinZ to the return of original journal t6 Secretary of con vention........................... 254 on portion of the report from com. mittee on rintin and bindin in 132 J~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~DEX.~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ YESADNYCniud ESADNY-ot~d ESADNY-ot~d on secend amendment to section 2 of report from committee on mis cellaneous subjects, in reference to homestead exemptions, as amended in committee of the whole........ 1689 on second paragraph of section 22 of of report from committee on exec utive, as amended in committee of the whole.......................... 1385 YEAS AND NAYS-Cont inued. enc substitute of Mr. Allen, of Craw ford, to section I of report from ~ommittee on miscellaneous sub ~,cts, in reference to homestead ex eeption, as amended in committee of the whole...................... 1691 on substitute of Mr. Anderson to sec tion 1 of report from committe e on right of suffrage, as amended in committee of the whole...........1294 on substitute of Mr. Anthony to sec tion 41 of report from committee on judic'ary, as amended in committee of the whole...................... 1490 on substitute of Mr. Cameron to report from committee on mines and mineral interests, in reference to the protection of the lives: of miners...................... 276 on substitute of Mr. Cameron to reso lution of Mr. Peirce in reference to additional pay to secretaries of convention........................18 69 on substitute of Mr. Dement to sec tion 9 of report from committee on bill of rights...................... 1569 on substitute of Mr. Haines, of Lake, to resolution of Mr. Peirce in refer ence to oath of office.............. 49 on substitute of Mr. Hayes to section 40 of report from committee on judi ciary, as amended in committee of the whole........................ 1487 on substitute of Mr. Medill to report from committee on mines and mine ral interests in reference to the pro tection of the lives of miners...... 276 on substitute of Mr. Medill to section I of report from committee on fu ture amendments, as amended in committee of the whole........... 1594 on substitute of Mr. Sedgwick to ad ditional section to report from com mittee on right of suffrage, as amended in committee of the whole, offered by Mr. Sedgwick....1307 on substitute of Mr. Sedgwick to sec tion 4 of report from committee on executive, as amended in committee of the whole......................1373 on substitute of Mr. Turner to resolu tion of Mr. Washburn, in reference to morning sessions of convention. 852 on substitute of Mr. Wall to resolu tion of Mr. English, in reference to recess of convention............... 831 on substitute of Mr. Wells to section 1 of report from committee on right of suffrage, as amended in committee of the whole...........1283 YEAS AND NAYS-Continued. on resolution of Mr. English in refer ence to per diem during recess of convention........................ 1861 ,on resolution of Mr. English in refer ence to recess of convention....... 832 on resolution of Mr. Fuller in refer ence to closing hall on Sunday.... 484 on resolution or Mr. Peirce in refer ence to form of oath of office...... 48 on resolution of Mr. Ross to modify resolution in reference to station ery furnished to members of con vention............................ 261 on resolution of Mr. Turner in refer ence to convention printing....... 96 on resolution of Mr. Washburn in reference to morning sessions of convention........................ 852 on resolution of Mr. Wells as amend ed by Mr. Medill, in reference to election of delegate to convention in place of Hon. Wm. H. Patterson, deceased.......................... 208 on resolution of Mr. Wendling on the subject of Washington's birthday. 794 on resolution of inquiry of Mr. Anthony to Alexander Starne, trustee, &c., and to Auditor of State, in reference to lands belong ing to Joel A. Matteson........... 335 on resolution of instruction of Mr. Cummings to committee on ac counts and expenditures of con vention, in reference to stationery furnished to convention........... 1417 on resolution of instruction of Mr. Cummings to committee on print ing and binding in reference to cost of convention printing, as amended by Mr. Buxton.................... 532 on resolution of instruction of Mr. ~ Goodhue to committee on revision and adjustment, in reference to sec tion 6 of article on right of suf frage.............................. 1726 on resolution of Mr. Hay to commit tee on revision and adjustment, in - reference to the election of supreme and additional circuit court judges.1800 on resolution of instruction of Mr. Whiting to committee on revision and adjustment, in reference to ar ticle on warehouses................ 1707 on second additional section reported by committee on finance........... 1787 on oond resolution of report from committee on printing and binding, in reference to constitution and ad dress, etc.......................... 1848 on second resolution of:eport from committee on printing and binding in reference to publication of con stitution.......................... 1706 on section 2 of report from committee on banks and currency, as amended in committee of the whole.........1686 on sections 3 and 15 of report from committee on bill of rights...1566,1585 on sections 5 and 6 of report from committee on counties, as amend ed in committee of the whole...... 1541 1542, 1560 on section 4 of report from commit mittee on education, as amended in committee of the whole............1749 on sections 1, 2 and 3 of report from committee on electoral and repre sentative reform.................. 1729 on sections 15 and 32 of report from committee on judiciary, as amend ed in committee of the whole.1460, 1476 on section I of report from commit tee on miscellaneous corporations, in reference to warehouses, as amended in committee of the whole............................ 1696 on section 4 of report from commit tee on railroad corporations, as amended in committee of the whole.............................. 1721 on sections 1, 4 and 10, of report from committee on revenue, as amended in committee of the whole..1604, 1603 1612 on section 9 of report from commit tee on schedule, as amended in committee of the whole...... 1825, 1827 on substitute to section 1 of report from committee on revenue, as adopted in committee of the whole.1599 132 INDEX. YEAS AND NAYS-Continved.' i -1 II II 'o